Thảo luận:Sao Mộc

message: How is gas giant in Việt? I haven't found that anywhere. David 16:39, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: How about hành tinh khí to? I really have no idea, but you could put that in for now, with a question mark. – Minh Nguyễn (thảo luận, blog) 01:58, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: In whatever form with which it's going to end up, I strongly suggest to put a question mark next to it.  The phrase gas giant itself is a kind of short-hand for "giant planet whose composition is mainly of gaseous matters" and, I suspect, may need a whole phrase in the Viêt language to properly carry the complete meaning.

text: Alternatively, David, you can look at the way I use the phrase "loại hành tinh có đất và đá giống như Địa Cầu" to convey the meaning of terrestrial planet.  My Viêt phrase, literally, means "the type of planet with soil and rock such as Earth" - not the most elegant but quite clear to a reader.  And being clear, in my view, is very important in an encyclopaedia.

text: By the way, you must have meant "What is gas giant in ...", have you?  User:Mekong Bluesman
For the moment the article just says it's composed of gas and thus has no soil... If you think an whole phrase for gas giant is better, go ahead.
In Dutch there is (as far as I know) no difference between "How is..." and "What is...", so I'm sorry for mistaking in English. This is my third language, so it may be I still make many mistakes. Please be patient...
David 13:31, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: No, David, I was not trying to correct you.  I was just asking to be sure.  Because if you really did mean to say how then all my explanations above did not make any sense.

text: By the way, I am running into a lot of problems translating the article for Mộc Tinh.  For example, I still looking for a way to convey the meaning of brown dwarf - both French's naine brune and your mother tongue's bruine dwerg don't give me much help.  How did you come up with the phrase ngôi sao hỏng?  User:Mekong Bluesman
replies: text: :The Dutch article says "Jupiter wordt wel eens een mislukte ster genoemd," which means something like "Jupiter is, at times, called a failed star," and my dictionaries translate French "raté" ("failed") as "hỏng". (I usually translate from Dutch, because like that I'm not mixing too many languages. That's bad enough as it is, using French-Việt dictionaries and all that...) As for "brown dwarf", I think it could best be translated wordly: "lùn nâu". That's, as far as I know, how "bruine dwerg" and "naine brune" have been invented (and that's where most words in astronomy, physics or mathematics come from in Dutch, if we don't use the English word altogether).

text: :But now I still don't know what the difference between How and What would be... – David  17:18, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: ::"How" is thế nào (ma), and "what" is cái gì (ma). – Minh Nguyễn (thảo luận, blog) 19:43, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: :::I know that much! :-) I mean: what would be the difference in the first sentence of this page? David 20:02, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Oh, sorry. :) In English, you either say "What is gas giant..." or "How do you say gas giant...." – Minh Nguyễn (thảo luận, blog) 20:05, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

text: Okay. Thank you. Any idea what the meaning is of what I wrote there? According to what I understand of Mekong Bluesman's writings, it should mean something I didn't mean. David  20:34, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: :Out of context, it might sound like someone has asked you to come up with a word or phrase, and you were asking that person if the phrase "gas giant" was acceptable. When I first read your sentence, I smiled, because I thought of someone asking if a Mr. Gas Giant was doing well in Vietnam, or something like that. ;) (People wouldn't really think that; I was just being funny this afternoon.)

text: :But it's a very common mistake for speakers of ESL, so people still understand what you're trying to say. I sometimes make a similar mistake in Spanish: I say qué instead of cómo. In Spanish, cómo (which often translates into English as "how") is often used where English-speakers would say qué ("what"). – Minh Nguyễn (thảo luận, blog) 01:28, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
To understand the difference between how and what, in this case, just change gas giant to a big piece of meat.
Question: How is a big piece of meat in Viêt?
Answer: It makes that lucky Viêt very full.
Question: What is a big piece of meat in Viêt?  (Which, actually, is shortened from "What is the meaning of a big piece of meat in the Viêt language?")
Answer: It is một miếng thịt to.
So... the only appropiate answer for "How is gas giant in Viêt?" that I can think of is the uncomfortability for both the gas giant and the poor Viêt who has swallowed it.  (If you understand my humour.)
As for brown dwarf leading to bruine dwerg and naine brune, this is quite probable and quite acceptable because of the closeness between English and Dutch - and to a lesser extend, between English and French.  If I want to use the same mechanism for the Viêt language, first, it has to be người lùn nâu - so that the adjective nâu has a noun người lùn to modify.  Second, and much more important, even when I like to invent a cool, new phrase for a language, there are many semantic, grammartical, historical and usage rules to follow.  Just because a piece of rag, or an uninformed person, uses a new (and wrong) phrase does not mean that I have to use it too.  Literally translating word for word, as I touched once, can lead to hilarious results, and many times to mistakes.  I remember one occasion of seeing a Japanese black-and-white movie with sub-titles.  The movie has its background in 13th-century feudal samurai lords Japan and has been translated to French and then to Viêt (both languages were shown on the sub-titles).  At one scence, a young student was trying to get the attention of a white-haired master.  The French sub-title showed "Hmm... Monsieur" and the Viêt one showed, hilariously incorrect, "Này ông".  (Given the fact that it was happening in the 13th century and given the fact that Japanese society was extremely strict at the time, the more appropiate translation should have been "Thưa Ngài".)  User:Mekong Bluesman

text: Okay, thank you, both of you. Since we need more native Việt, I'll try not to make them swallow any more gas giants, or they'll all run away real hard. :-) As for translating brown dwarf, I've run out of suggestions. If I ever get to know a good word, I'll tell you. David  12:52, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Việc dịch nghĩa một từ phải tùy thuộc vào ngữ cảnh. Tôi đoán brown dwarf có thể dịch là "sao lùn nâu" trong ngữ cảnh một bài về thiên văn học.
Đây là một posting đầu tiên trong wikipedia của tôi. Nhận xét: không rõ website này có admin hay moderator không mà nhiều từ dịch ra tiếng Việt quá ngớ ngẩn. Ví dụ: "tên người dùng sẽ được tự động tư bản hóa". Từ "tư bản hóa" chắc hẳn được dịch từ capitalize (viết hoa).

text: Thank you, thank you, thank you,  BienXuanLe!  Cám ơn BienXuanLe mười lần!  Just the word sao only makes the whole difference.  Unless, one day, I run across a more definite Viêt word for brown dwarf, I'll use the terms sao nâu.  The word dwarf does not convey any extra meaning in the Viêt language in this particular situation.  More than that dwarf doesn't mean lùn alone - it also means an extraordinary small person, since these heavenly bodies have much smaller mass than that of a normal star.  Again, thank you for a stroke of illumination, BienXuanLe.  User:Mekong Bluesman
thread_title: Gas giant

message: Tại trang http://www.khoahoc.com.vn/view.asp?Cat_ID=1&Cat_Sub_ID=0&news_id=4482 có bài nói về việc NASA công bố những hình ảnh mới nhất về Sao Mộc. Kính mời các thành viên dò tìm và load về được không?
Newone 10:37, ngày 31 tháng 3 năm 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: NASA công bố bản đồ mới nhất về Sao Mộc

message: Các số liệu thông tin hành tinh lấy theo nguồn nào vậy? Cụ thể về thể tích, bản viwiki viết là "1338 × 1012 km³ hay 1235,6 lần Trái Đất" nhưng bên enwiki viết "1431,28×1012 km³ hay 1321.3 Earths". Newone (thảo luận) 10:37, ngày 22 tháng 3 năm 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Thông tin hành tinh 

message: Có một số số liệu không trùng bên en và bài lại thiếu nguồn trầm trọng.--Goodluck (thảo luận) 20:01, ngày 24 tháng 10 năm 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Thiếu nguồn