Kategoridiskussion:Tjeckiens distrikt

message: Please note that names of Czech districts are, in reality, not identical with names of their district towns. "Okres Benešov" cannot be called simply "Benešov" (it can be only an abbreviation in a table or code). The letter "o" is not capitalized but the word "okres" is a necessary part of the district name. 
A different case are names of municipalities. Name of a municipality which contains many villages or quarters is often identic with name of the main (seat) town or village of such municipality. --ŠJů 3 maj 2011 kl. 14.28 (CEST)
replies: text: I think you might be right, but the analogous question for Swedish municipalities and other units has lead to rather drawn-out and entrenched discussions on SVWP. To avoid such discussions here, could you maybe provide some authoritative sources that discuss this issue?

text: It is also not trivial to figure out how the articles should be named instead - the closest analogue to the Czech form, "distriktet Benešov", would be considered essentially equivalent to "Benešov (distrikt)", and a form closer to Swedish municipalities, "Benešovs distrikt", might be criticized for being a Wikipedia invention. Leaving "okres Benešov" untranslated is an option, but for regions, where the EU uses translations such as Mellersta Böhmen, it would be somewhat unfortunate not to use names based on an existing Swedish translation. The issues raised on diskussion:Polens administrativa indelning seem to be somewhat relevant (mutatis mutandis) here too. //Essin (diskussion) 26 januari 2023 kl. 13.53 (CET)
replies: text: :  Translating territorial unit types is generally a tricky thing. Sometimes the original name is only grammatically adapted (Masoviens vojvodskap), sometimes are translated. Several various Slavic terms (okruh, obvod, okres) are translated as "district", which sometimes reduces the distinctiveness of the translated expression. But mostly this translation is understandable and sufficient, and the custom of English is, in this case, transferable to Swedish.

text: : As for the syntactic-grammatical form,  "Benešovs distrikt" is IMHO more close to the original usage than "Benešov (distrikt)". Grammatically, the word "Benešov" in the term "okres Benešov" is a attribute in the form of indeclinable nominative (when the control word "okres" is declined, the attribute name remains in nominative). However, this is a specific Czech grammatical figure which can by correctly translated with adjective, genitive or preposition binding. The essential is that the mere word "Benešov" doesn't mean "okres Benešov". In the past, Czech preferred adjectival bindings ("benešovský okres"), it is currently officially used in the names of Czech regions (Pardubický kraj, Plzeňský kraj etc.). Informally, this form is also sometimes used for names of districts. "Benešovs distrikt" is a fairly correct and standard translation of the Czech designation into Swedish grammar. I suppose, "Benešovs" is a Swedish form of genitive, which can stand also for adjective.

text: : Mellersta Böhmen means rather informal and not sharply defined area of "Central Bohemia" than "Central Bohemian Region" as a formal administrative self-governing unit, "Hradec Králové" is surely not a suitable name for "Hradec Králové Region", "Mähren-Schlesien" is completely unfitting translation of "Moravian-Silesian Region" (evoking rather "Moravia and Silesia" than "Moravian Silesia", which is a bit more appropriate). The word "kraj" can be translated in different ways or kept in the original form, but its complete omission from the names of regions is really confisung and inappropriate. The word "kraj" is an indispensable part of the name of the regions, as well as the word "okres" ("district") is indispensable part of the name of Czech districts (the only exception is the Vysočina region, whose name originally did not contain the word "kraj"). --ŠJů (diskussion) 26 januari 2023 kl. 16.47 (CET)
replies: text: :: Aha, I didn't consider that "Benešov" might be analyzed as an attribute to "okres". When nouns are used as attributes in English, the Swedish equivalent is usually a compound, and if that logic also holds for Czech we get "Benešovdistriktet", which is also a possibility. "Benešovs" is indeed a genitive. For nouns ending in a vowel, exceptionally the -s disappears when using the Swedish genitive together with administrative unit types etc. Thus, we would get e.g. "Blansko distrikt".

text: ::On the topic of the Moravian-Silesian Region, isn't one part of it Moravian, and another Silesian? If the intention is indeed Moravian Silesia, we would get "Mähriska Schlesien". However, "Mähren-Schlesien" is the form recommended by the EU, so while combinations such as "Mähren-Schlesienregionen", "Mähren-Schlesiens län", "Mähren-Schlesiens region" etc might be possible, to go further would be to create new proper nouns, which Swedish-language Wikipedia tries to avoid. However, if you contact the Style Guide coordinators and convince them to change their recommendation, Wikipedia should follow. //Essin (diskussion) 26 januari 2023 kl. 18.19 (CET)
replies: text: :::   The Moravian-Silesian Region (originally Ostrava Region) contains a small (northern) part of Moravia and a small part of Silesia (ca 7/10 of the Czech Silesia).  "Mähren-Schlesien" evokes rather the former "Země Moravskoslezská" (Land Mähren-Schlesien) which existed 1928-1948 and contained the whole Moravia and the whole Czechoslovak (Czech) part of Silesia. Something like "Mähren-Schlesienregionen", "Mähren-Schlesiens län", "Mähren-Schlesiens region" would be surely more fitting for the todays Moravian-Silesian Region as literal translation of its name. If you want avoid translations, you need to use the original name "Moravskoslezský kraj". The linked translations are an example of a very low-quality and incompetent translation, unfortunately. This looks more like a parody. The author of that translation did not understand at all how the names of territorial units are formed and what they mean, and incorrectly and senselessly modified them. A correct literal translation of a synthetic proper name is, I suppose, a lesser violation of your Wikipedia rules than replacing it with an arbitrary nonsensical modification. Here I suggest to the Swedish Wikipedia editors to follow reasonable principles and not a low-quality clerical manual. But it is not my ambition to educate or select Swedish EU officials. You Swedes must guard your officials yourselves. --ŠJů (diskussion) 26 januari 2023 kl. 19.15 (CET)
thread_title:  Czech districts