Diskussion:Lista över svenska seglande örlogsfartyg

message: Hej, unfortunately I only understand little Swedish, but I was glad to find this great new list for some research. I am a German WP user, my name there is Benutzer:KuK. I just have written an article about the customs frigate that patrolled the river Elbe for more than 200 years. The permanent patrol started when the duchy of Bremen came under Swedish control after 1648. The first Swedish ship mentioned in my main source, a 1963 book, is a frigate named St. Margaretha. It stayed on this station until 1679 but was transferred to the state of Hanover in 1676 when Bremen came under their control for some years.
In this list there is no frigate with this name but in the section "300-100 ton" one can find the following entry: Margareta (ex-struss) 1660 1676 erövrad Dan Bodekull 125? Unfortunately, I am not fully able to understand this text. To my interpretation there has been a ship Margareta formerly named Struss that was in service with the Swedish fleet from 1660 to 1676. Then it was captured. It had possibly 125 tons. I can not understand the words Dan Bodekull.
This information might very well correspond with the so called frigate St. Margaretha which showed up on the station in 1663 and was transferred to the Hanover government in 1676. The tonnage might allow the reported armament of 14 guns. Also it was reported that initially a ship with the name Vogel Strauß had shown up but then sailed back to Sweden. St. Margaretha's captain was the same Lt. Brack who had commanded the Vogel Strauß shortly before. That leads to the assumption that it might have been the same ship renamed St. Margaretha -> Margareta (ex-struss). Do you have any more information on that?
And then I have a second question concerning an even smaller vessel. In 1671 a small yacht with the name Maria was part of the customs station. In your list there are three entries that might correspond with this Maria:
*HMS Maria (1676)
*HMS Sankta Maria (1675)
*(St) Maria 1675 först omnämnd 1676 erövrad Bran (M?)
Especially the last one with the remark "1676 erövrad" could be the one I am looking for.
Does anyone know more? Looking forward for an answer, KuK. --79.204.175.143 30 maj 2010 kl. 10.52 (CEST)
replies: text: I´m not sure i should be the one to answer, since im not sure what how to interpret all of the information in this article. I´m pretty sure you have identified S:t Margareta. If you look further below in the list, you find the same ship again - its said to have been returned to Sweden in 1679, and was taken out of use in 1686.
Bodekull was untill 1664 the name Swedish town an navy base Karlshamn in Blekinge - Dan. probably means Denmark, the town before 1658 was Danish --194.71.123.2 30 maj 2010 kl. 15.25 (CEST)

text: Thank you! May I ask another question? I noticed that "(ex-struss)" is added to more ships. Is this a former name or does it mean something different? KuK, --79.204.175.143 30 maj 2010 kl. 15.51 (CEST)
replies: text: : I´m not sure. Ex probably means former, although in Swedish word ought to be f.d. (före detta). I think this list i partly a translation from English, since it contains words as "Privateer"=Kapare, "Large" etc. This list recently been moved from Lista över svenska örlogsfartyg and var originally added by Användare:Goombah - perhaps you can ask him about more details?--FBQ 30 maj 2010 kl. 22.33 (CEST)
Thank you for all the help and especially the hint to Användare:Goombah. I have placed a notice on his discussion page. In the meantime I have looked a little bit closer into this list and found some more information that lead to more questions.
* There is an entry Fågel Struts 1657/8, 1674 Sänkt, Wolgast 200. This makes me believe that Margareta and the so called Vogel Strauß are not the same vessel but there was another ship with the name Fågel Struts (in German Vogel Strauß). Is my interpretation correct, that this was a ship of 200 ts that came into Swedish service in 1657/8 and was sunk at Wolgast in 1674?
* The list contains a number of vessels with the remark "(ex-struss)" and also a chapter "Strussar" with only one vessel. Therefore, I believe that "struss" is some type or category of vessel, but I cannot find any definition or further information in the internet. Might be it is an outdated or old fashioned term.
Looking forward for more info, KuK, --79.204.166.54 3 juni 2010 kl. 12.06 (CEST)

text: :Hi! I understand you got a little bit confused when you read the ship list. The list needs a serious clean up. Well, "Margareta (ex-struss) 1660 1676 erövrad Dan Bodekull 125?" stands for the ships name, Margareta which was a former struss. Struss was a type of mid size ships for shallow waters and rivers. The word struss was a swedish loan word taken from the slavic word "strudzi". 1660 is the year when the ship was built. It was built in Bodekull (nowadays the city of Karlshamn, Sweden). Bodekull was initially a danish town, but became swedish after the Roskilde peace treaty 1658. The ship was captured and taken by the danish fleet in 1676, (hence the "Dan").

text: :Probably, it was the same ship that was later returned to the swedish navy in 1679 and became discarded in 1685. The number 125 is the displacement of the ship.

text: :You can find further information (and probably answer to your second question as well) in this * article in english by Jan Glete.

text: :Tschüss! Goombah 3 juni 2010 kl. 20.54 (CEST)
replies: text: ::Thank you all for your help! I hope that my artcle is now correct with respect to this common part of naval history. KuK, --79.204.148.219 4 juni 2010 kl. 09.24 (CEST)
thread_title:  Question from Germany 

message: Efter två års funderande fimpade jag alla HMS-prefix enligt diskussionen här. Prefixen finns fortfarande kvar i själva länkarna, det kanske kan åtgärdas någon gång. Marfuas 13 september 2010 kl. 23.54 (CEST)
replies: text: Och på den här sidan försökte jag skapa en regel för hur artiklar om fartyg ska namnges. Ändra gärna, jag drog till med nåt som verkade rimligt och/eller redan användes. Marfuas 17 september 2010 kl. 23.00 (CEST)
thread_title:  HMS 

message: Lista över svenska örlogsflottan 1566 och 1567 upptar ett fartyg med namnet Store Hjorten, 1566 med 249 mans besättning, 53 kanoner 1566 och 61 kanoner 1567. Jag trodde först att det var Danske Hjorten som åsyftades, men den listas nedanför med endast 131 mans besättning och 46 respektive 50 kanoner. Det finns ett skepp kallat Hjort med 50 kanoner 1563, och Lybske Hjort, som erövrades 1563 och skänktes bort 1570, men det sägs vara ett handelsskepp och stämmer i sådana fall bättre på Lille Hjorten, som 1566 hade 124 mans besättning, 40 kanoner 1566 och 42 kanoner 1567. Någon gissning? mvh --FBQ 13 mars 2011 kl. 11.54 (CET)
thread_title:  Hjorten