Обсуждение:Топалян, Мурад

message: Был запрос на источник о том, что Топалян посещал Белый Дом. Но это легко проверяется по ссылкам.
Mourad Topalian was no ordinary suspect. At the time, he was chairman of the Armenian National Committee of America, one of the nation's two leading Armenian associations. Tall and charismatic, he was well known in the halls of Congress and had met with President Clinton a half-dozen times.  
В общем, лидер АНКА оказался также и лидером ДжСаГ. Об этом написано и на сайте ФБР, в разделе про терроризм в 2000 году:
MAY 11, 2000
  
Mourad Topalian Pleads Guilty
  
On May 11, 2000, Mourad Topalian, a suspected leader of the Justice Commandos of the Armenian Genocide, pled guilty to storage of stolen explosives and owning two machine guns.
  
In September 1996, the manager of a public storage facility in Bedford, Ohio, uncovered a cache of TNT and blasting caps, as well as firearms, in one of the facility's self-service lockers. Investigators eventually traced the locker to Topalian.
  
On January 24, 2001, Topalian received a sentence of 37 months in federal prison and three years of supervised release.  
Grandmaster 08:52, 6 апреля 2010 (UTC)
Перенес из статьи, нет смысла включать в нее всю газетную статью:
The Boston Globe. Armenian-American site in Franklin named Camp was allegedly used for terrorist training, by John Ellement. October 16, 1999 
For thousands of Armenian-Americans in the Boston area, childhood has meant a summer sojourn at Camp Haiastan in Franklin, where they learn about outdoor life and their distinctive cultural heritage.
But according to federal authorities in Ohio, a prominent Armenian- American once used the camp as a training ground for terrorism aimed at the Turkish government, whom Armenians blame for the killing of 1.5 million of their countrymen in 1915.
Mourad "Moose" Topalian showed others how to use submachine guns and built and exploded booby traps -- one went off prematurely, injuring a person -- in 1976 and 1977, according to the five-count indictment unsealed Thursday in Cleveland.
Although the indictment alleges Topalian was involved in a number of bombing attacks on Turkish targets over two decades, including a 1980 attack on that government's mission to the United Nations, he was not charged with the May 4, 1982 murder of an honorary Turkish consul in Somerville.
A spokesman for US Attorney Emily M. Sweeney yesterday declined comment when asked whether Topalian was under investigation for the still-unsolved murder of Orhan R. Gunduz, who was shot to death by a man wearing a jogging suit and sunglasses while armed with two handguns.
At the time of Gunduz's killing, a group calling itself the Justice Commandos for the Armenian Genocide called wire services in New York City and claimed responsibility for the murder. The same group also claimed to have bombed Gunduz's import store in Cambridge a few weeks before the killing.
The indictment alleges that Topalian was responsible for sending about 100 pounds of dynamite and blasting caps to the Franklin summer camp, where they were discovered by a camp official and immediately turned over to authorities in the fall of 1983.
Yesterday, Franklin Police Chief Lawrence P. Benedetto said his agency has had no problems in recent years with the Armenian Youth Federation of America, which runs the camp.
Topalian also is accused of ordering a California man to bring five sticks of dynamite and blasting caps to Boston in 1982 that were to be used in a bombing in Philadelphia. FBI agents intercepted the explosives and said the suspect, Steven John Dadian, may have had ties to the Justice Commandos.
It was unclear yesterday what had happened to the criminal cases against Dadian.
Overall, the indictment alleges that Topalian was"a part of the conspiracy that the defendant and others both known and unknown formed an `elite group' of individuals in order to bring publicity and attention to the Armenian genocide of 1915, commonly referred to as `the Cause,' " prosecutors said in court papers.
The indictment does not refer to the Justice Commandos or any other group by name.
Between 1976 and 1996, Topalian allegedly ordered or was involved directly in bombings in New York and Anaheim and Beverly Hills, Calif., the robbery of munitions factories, and the illegal purchase of numerous high-powered weapons. He also sent people to Beirut for training with international terrorist groups there, the indictment alleges.
Key evidence against Topalian, 56, apparently comes from two former allies. The 23-page indictment is sprinkled with references to two individuals known to prosecutors who participated in the alleged illegal activities, including the shipment of dynamite to Franklin.
Topalian is chairman of the Armenian National Committee of America, which was described by its executive director yesterday as a grass-roots organization with an office in Washington that serves as an advocate on Armenian issues. One key issue is the contention of many Armenians that Turkey committed genocide in 1915, executive director Aram Hamparian said yesterday.
Up to a million and a half Armenians were massacred or died during mass deportations by the Ottoman Turks from 1915 to 1920. Turkey maintains that figure is exaggerated.
Hamparian would not comment on Topalian, whom he said has been chairman of the group for four years. But, he said, the group relies on constitutional means to get its message to US leaders. Topalian met with President Clinton in 1996 and told the Cleveland Plain Dealer in 1993 that he had been invited to Clinton's inaugural.
Manoog Young, a specialist on Armenian history and culture who lives in Belmont, said yesterday that Topalian's committee is the political arm of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, which was formed in the 19th century to throw off Turkish rule. The group officially disavows violence, but over the years some members have been charged with murder, including the 1933 killing of an Armenian archbishop in New York City.
Topalian, who is free on bond, is the vice president of a Cleveland-area community college, earning $106,000 a year, and previously had worked for Citibank in Florida.
He is a native of Cleveland and married to a bank vice president, with whom he has a daughter, according to the Plain Dealer. He also has children from a prior marriage.
The investigation into Topalian began in 1996 when 100 pounds of high explosives and numerous weapons were found in a self-storage facility in Bedford, Ohio.
According to the indictment, Topalian and his allies had been renting that space, located near a day care center and an interstate highway, since 1980.
Grandmaster 08:36, 7 апреля 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Источники 

message: Надо внимательно читать, в ссылках все есть. В частности из статьи Following Terror's Forgotten Trail в US News and World Report:
Pete Elliott, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Fire-arms, hustled over to Bedford and was stunned by what he saw: a 16-year-old cache of high explosives--100 pounds of dynamite, blasting caps, and more--plus 13 firearms, a shopping bag full of ammo, and a dusty trench coat. The dynamite was leaking and extremely dangerous.
  
Elliott began reading up on Armenian terrorism. In the 1970s, a wave of terror fell upon Turkish officials, engineered by Armenian extremists furious over Turkish denials of the genocide. The attacks included 160 bombings and assassinations of 22 Turkish diplomats worldwide. The terror ebbed by the mid-1980s, but many attacks went unsolved.
  
By the fall of 1999, Mourad Topalian had turned 56, moved back to Cleveland, and taken a job as a vice president of Cuyahoga Community College. That October, Elliott helped arrest him in the college parking lot; Topalian was indicted for conspiracy to traffic in firearms and explosives and to commit acts of terror "against persons of Turkish descent." Prosecutors accused him of ordering the theft of the explosives, sending followers to Beirut for weapons training, and directing the 1980 car bombing of Turkey's mission to the United Nations, which badly injured three passersby. In other documents, they alleged that the stolen explosives were used in two 1981 bombings--of the Turkish consulate in Beverly Hills and the Orange County Convention Center--but officials say they have no evidence of Topalian's direct involvement in the California attacks. Investigators also believe he served as a top leader of the Justice Commandos of the Armenian Genocide, a terrorist group that took credit for those attacks and more.
  
Topalian has maintained his innocence of any terrorist activity, and his trial drew over 60 letters to the judge from doctors, priests, and others attesting to his character. In a plea agreement last May, the conspiracy counts were dropped, and he pleaded guilty only to explosives and weapons charges. 
Также на сайте ФБР сказано:
On May 11, 2000, Mourad Topalian, a suspected leader of the Justice Commandos of the Armenian Genocide, pled guilty to storage of stolen explosives and owning two machine guns.
Просьба больше не злоупотреблять запросами на цитату. Читайте источники, которые указаны в статье. Многие из них доступны онлайн. Grandmaster 06:16, 8 апреля 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Запросы цитат стоят на источники, которые недосптупны онлайн и/или же которых нет в свободном доступе. Я точно так же могу предложить вам не использовать такие источники. --Айк 06:27, 8 апреля 2010 (UTC)
В британской газете The Independent написано то же самое:
Topalian, 57, of suburban Shaker Heights, struck a deal with prosecutors last May under which he pleaded guilty to storing stolen explosives and possessing two machine guns. As part of the plea bargain, a conspiracy count and two other felony charges were dismissed.
  
The charges stem from the discovery of guns and more than 100 pounds of decaying explosives at a rental storage facility in suburban Bedford in 1996. The explosives were ultimately traced to Topalian, a former vice president at Cuyahoga Community College.
  
Federal prosecutors initially charged - and brought the claims up again in presentencing documents - that the explosives had been stored in the garage since 1980, after Topalian arranged to have them stolen from a mine near Kalkaska, Michigan. 
Grandmaster 06:26, 8 апреля 2010 (UTC)
По американскому каналу NBC показывали документальный фильм про Топаляна. Тут можно посмотреть все 4 части:  У меня есть полный транскрипт этой передачи, т.е. письменное ее изложение. Взято из базы международного газетного архива, могу предоставить, если надо. Grandmaster 06:29, 8 апреля 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Запросы на источники 

message: Не понимаю на основнии чего убираются запросы цитат из нижеследующих источников с комментарием «Цитаты приведена на странице обсуждения», когда на СО ничего подобного нет?
# Richard H. Walton Cold Case Homicides: Practical Investigative Techniques. 
# Michael M. Gunter, «Pursuing the Just Cause of their People». A Study of Contemporary Armenian Terrorism
# Activist charged with being head of bomb group. News & Observer. Raleigh, N.C.: Oct 16, 1999. pg. A.8
# Former CCC vice president admits to storing explosives, by John F. Hagan. The Plain Dealer. Cleveland, Ohio: May 12, 2000. pg. 1.A
--Айк 19:13, 8 апреля 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: А зачем нужны цитаты из этих источников? То же самое написано в тех источниках, которые я цитировал выше. Укажите, по какой именно фразе вам нужна цитата, если ее нет в тех источниках, которые я указал выше. Grandmaster 09:10, 9 апреля 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: : Если вы считаете что цитаты из этих источников не нужны, то удалите ссылки на эти источники. --Айк 12:13, 9 апреля 2010 (UTC)

text: Вот книга Уолтона:  А вот цитата, стр. 352:
TERRORIST STORAGE LOCKER 
  
Armenian nationalists rented a locker in the Cleveland area during the 1970s for the storage of guns and explosives. Rental fees on the locker were not paid in 1996, which triggered an opening and investigation of the locker by authorities, including The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms once munitions discovered. Several evidentiary hair fragments were collected from a coat and moving blankets inside the locker. Mitochondrial DNA analysis of these fragments in 1999 matched their profile to that of the leader of the terrorist group, Mourad Topalian. Topalian was arrested, charged, convicted and sentenced to 37 months in prison in 2000. An "ancient" mtDNA analysis was necessary for the hairs, because their mtDNA was minimal and degraded after exposure to the heat of the storage facility over many years. This slightly more specialized approach allows abundant but degraded DNA, such as mtDNA in 25-year-old hairs, to be captured in smaller fragments.

text: Grandmaster 09:24, 9 апреля 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: : Ну так вставьте этот текст соответствующим образом в статью. --Айк 12:13, 9 апреля 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::А зачем? Этот источник используется в основном для описания анализов ДНК, которые помогли установить вину Тополяна. Ссылки достаточно. Вы просили текст, я его предоставил. Думаю, вопрос решен. Grandmaster 11:41, 10 апреля 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::: Извините, но ничего не решено. Есть еще 3 источника, на которые есть ссылка и нет цитат из них. Либо добавьте цитаты, либо удалите источники. --Айк 18:33, 10 апреля 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Запросы цитат из источников 

message: Временное отсутствие цитаты не является причиной для удаления источника. Quantum666 11:09, 11 апреля 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Если отсутсвие цитаты дело временное, то почему вы не вернули запрос цитаты?

text: Все претензии предъявляйте участнику Grandmaster, который удаляет запросы цитат. Сколько мне их еще возвращать? --Айк 11:56, 11 апреля 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Отсутствие цитаты