ਫਰਮਾ ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ:ਫ਼ਾਈਲ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ

message: When only person contributed to this page how can that same person cite "excessive Vandelism" as a reason to protect this page? Why this page needs to be protected from normal users. This type of protection and protection reasons are clearly a case of misuse of admin rights.--Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੭:੪੬, ੩੦ ਸਿਤੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: This is one of the important templates that this wiki uses, it needs to be protected. --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੧੯:੧੬, ੩੦ ਸਿਤੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :The second reason is that at the time it is  compeleted and need no more in it. Moreover, if you wish to add something, you can discuss on the talk page here. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੧:੦੧, ੧ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
Looking closely I found TariButtar did this for many pages in this wiki. This is not at all making sense for a small wiki like this where community is just growing.
First of all to take admin actions like this you need to have a policy on this wiki. The policy need to be discussed with community and need to reach consensus. Just copy pasting English wikipedia policies as and when required to terrorize new users is not the way to build community for Punjabi wikipedia.
//This is one of the important templates that this wiki uses, it needs to be protected.//
As we know Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. There are certain rare circumstances that few pages can be protected in a wiki. Page Protection policy of English wikipedia give details about that sort of instances where certain pages can be protected.  Just because citing the reason as "one of the important templates that this wiki" is just assuming bad faith on rest of the Punjabi speakers who want to contribute to Punjabi Wikipedia. As all users can not become administrators it is the duty of existing admins to assume good faith on rest of the Punjabi wikipedia users and involve them in the editing. Barring them from editing is not a way to grow community or improve contents in wiki.
//The second reason is that at the time it is  compeleted and need no more in it.//
Nothing in the wiki is finalized for ever. Wikipedia is an encylopedia that is always in making. So the above comment comes from your misconception about wikipedia and how it works. Wikipedia is a work in progress. Do not assume that with your one edit any article/pages are finalized. and you can protect it for ever There is always a better editor there who can enhance any page in wiki.
//Moreover, if you wish to add something, you can discusls on the talk page here.//
My above comment is about TariButtar misusing admin rights, not about editing or improving this particular template.
Looking closely I found TariButtar did this for many pages in this wiki. This is not at all making sense for a small wiki like this where community is just growing.
In the close examination of TariButtar's admin actions and the conversation TariButtar and  Zarienah are having with regular users (especially new comers)  I found both are very hostile. I am going to open an RfC for this. This need to be discussed with larger wikimedia community.--Shijualex (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੪:੫੯, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

text: Ai but I'm hostile? Where? When I came here I like gave barnstars to everybody & I only joined this wiki last month? however I do agree that this wiki might need another admin to equal it out, I'll be coming with nominees soon. --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੧੫:੧੧, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
===Protection (cont.)===
At this, I wanna say something about why I protected some pages. The wiki was highly vandalised when I entered as an admin and the rest was (and is) not written in a good style. There were (are) lots of articles written untiedly with lots of spaces, leading spaces, section making, English categories, wrongly spelled pages, redirects and red links, articles written using the wiki as a newspaper or magazine or personal web/blog (they still exists, even by admins). In the light of the points above, I take protecting some pages written in good style against vandalismas a good solution as almost all the users here were (are) unexperienced and were (are) writing articles in an unacceptable manner I mentioned above. As wiki community is growing and learning more about editing , style etc. I' m not gonna let them fully protected . In a nutshell, I did all this in a good faith but not for always. Thanks for being here. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੫:੨੫, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :Oh! Where you found us hostile? Just helped learning about the wiki, it's style etc.. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੫:੩੬, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: ::Important: Did you noticed that I mostly protected pages to be edited by autoconfirmed users against vandalism as most of the vandalism comes from new and IP users. Did you noticed that the pages protected (to be edited by autoconfirmed) are mostly in wikipedia namespace or templates. Did you noticed how many times the wikipedia namespace (wikipedia:about, wikipedia:privacy policy, wikipedia:disclaimer etc.) pages have been vandalised? Why new users need to edit wikipedia namespace and templates instead of editing main namespace articles and get experience? Are the protected ones encyclopedic to be of interest of new users and can help new users getting editing experience?
You're not so active here to know how much I'm working hard helping unexperienced ones in editing, styling, sourcing. I impoted "ProveIt" tool for making adding sources easy but still users writing without any source and sometimes makes not-to-beleive-without-source statements. Even admins don't know the style of sourcing. I got my experience on the English wiki so I think I knows the dos and don'ts very well.
The other reason of the protection was that there were only few users then from whom I would expect a help fighting vandalism? In fact, it would be just to expect from the same who vandalised. If you still feel that I must unprotect them then you have to promise helping us fighting against vandalism being much active here. The first thing you need to help us, is to know Punjabi, do you know? Please read the section twice; I think I've made some hidden points of my intention behind the activites, very clear. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੬:੧੩, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

text: TariButtar ji, I think you have no point here, you keep your nasty attitude and use it on new members, please check my talk page many places like the most recent section how he said to me "you and your hindi" and how he started with me when I said I am a Punjabi he says I'm not, many hindi words run in punjabi and mr taributtar and things wont work as you please. --ਰਾਜੇਂਦਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੬:੫੭, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :Oh! It's just as to label a minor thing in bold letters, did you noticed the word "dear" I used for you. Why you didn't mentioned that one? That's very childish and do you think that "go do your research" is any kind of politeness? 
Please don't oppose users just because they tried to help you getting right on the wiki which you take to be interfaring-in-your-personal-edits. Please learn about the wiki and respect users helping you do that. I, sometimes, found you trying to mix Hindi words with Punjabi on which I make you noticed, just it. Also, notified you about the poor Punjabi you used in articles and even you've notified by other users for same. Please don't make the wiki a battlefield. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੭:੧੯, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

text: Please check me as well, I just came into this wikipedia and these editors had a hostile attitude and about my templates they really don't want others to share and edit, they force their way especially this Teributtar, his attitude about my references template is "my way is the only way". he also sends me messages as if I can't speak Punjabi which I DO NOT APPRECIATE! Seeing teributtar misusing and attacking other new users I don't think his admins rights are justified, please can we have a better one §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੧੯:੦੦, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
http://pa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ਵਰਤੌਂਕਾਰ_ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ:VibhasKS & http://pa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ਫਰਮਾ_ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ:ਸੰਦਰਭ, see what they are saying about me, Shijualex, please open a RfC case against them, and for teributtar I have a question: which user have you helped and positively effected? §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੧੯:੦੪, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
===Cont.===
I think doing the same of the English wiki 'll let you know all the answers. I don't wanna make wiki a battlefield by answering in your style. Just do it on the English wiki. You'll get number of msgs telling you about the style and sense. If you call them attitudes of admins that's your personal opinion. Admins are here to keep wiki clean and better and they'll do rather than remain fixing with one's personal opinions.  Please be bold and try learning Punjabi. You've no right to alter Punjabi just coming from a non Punjabi community. Being an admin I can be accuse not you? Just because you're new? If everyone has his own template for personal use saying, "I live at "example" and I know only this word so I'll use only this, stop deleting" sorry but that's not wikipedia dear user. Is it not you attitude? Why you all've found only admins to blame? Is a user is acceptable in every way? Because we need users so their every personal attitude 'll be justified? Be wikipedians dears. If someone tell you to be right you call it attitude, why we not call the wiki a personal blog which everyone can have personal templates etc. For personal use. Why you just messing up with templates, you're new and should get experience by editing in the main namespace. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੨੩:੪੭, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

text: I'm active on this wiki from like last 3-4 months and visited every single day. I know how hard work Taributtar has done so far and must appreciate him for this. Those templates are not protected from registered users, we can edit them as well. First of all we need to develop policies for Punjabi Wikipedia, We should not direct to English Wikipedia's policies.--ਸੰਧੂ | kJ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੩:੫੮, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :Thanks Kooljeet! Glad to see that there are users noticed my hard word. This is encouraging. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੪:੦੯, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: ::Taributtar I came from the Dutch Wikipedia, I was also told things by the other users so don't try me, since I came into this Wikipedia I don't think I've been welcome here and looking at how the admins treat people in the Dutch Wikipedia, I don't view Taributtar as capable because he has a very hostile attitude and a strong "my way is the only way" attitude, he needs to loose that attitude and learn to work nicely with this small community of pa.wiki §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੦੮:੧੩, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :::You said, "I was also told things by the other users so don't try me" oh what a polite attitude! It adds to your attitude that you've been told, yet you vandalised wiki and even accusing others bcz of your personal opinion and attitude of "I-am-always-right". Even after being told you do so it clearly means that you don't have a learning nature that is already appeared through the conflicts you're making here. Users know better about my attitude and one 'll not check your comment here to know how TariButtar is; it's recorded in the history of the wiki. The wiki has small community that's why you're not taken any action against yet, otherwise do the same on a wiki with large community you'll learn better. And, please repaire your behaviour and try a learning nature. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੮:੪੦, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Havoc is going on here HAVOC, we NEED another administrator, the community seems to be breaking apart, so from your side that thinks "I'm hostile" please nominate somebody so we can bridge this gap between our community, please co-operate --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੦੮:੫੦, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
Oh yes TariButtar like your attitude is aby better §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੦੯:੧੨, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
===Cont. 2===
Zarienah, please don't. It'll add to conflicts as there is no one as experienced to be, if another one is here the conflicts will increase and wiki'll be just a battlefield. We have only few users and many of them even not know about spacing yet (the users have not written a single article to which one say a better encyclopedic in almost every sense. I'm not talking about the minor mistakes even users ignoring/don't know important things). We need , I think, a bureaucrat from the meta wiki or other better experienced user. Users can talk it on better why an admin, what changes after being an admin is it change ones mind and make much sharper to solve conflict. I think we need a much more experienced one from outside the wiki. I'll suggest for anyone from the English wiki or MetaWiki. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੯:੨੦, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

text: I'm not creating conflicts, I'm thinking for the better of this wiki. --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੧੦:੨੪, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: : I seriously doubt that Zarienah is thinking for the better of this wiki. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੦:੩੫, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :: Aha! and I'm sure you are with your garbage English templates! Wikipedia is not your personal battlefield Satdeep, keep things in-between me & you with Email, this is Wikipedia where we all work to better things if you have a personal problem use email or a medium outside the wiki --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੧੦:੪੪, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
thread_title: Protection

message: At this, I wanna say something about why I protected some pages. The wiki was highly vandalised when I entered as an admin and the rest was (and is) not written in a good style. There were (are) lots of articles written untiedly with lots of spaces, leading spaces, section making, English categories, wrongly spelled pages, redirects and red links, articles written using the wiki as a newspaper or magazine or personal web/blog (they still exists, even by admins). In the light of the points above, I take protecting some pages written in good style against vandalismas a good solution as almost all the users here were (are) unexperienced and were (are) writing articles in an unacceptable manner I mentioned above. As wiki community is growing and learning more about editing , style etc. I' m not gonna let them fully protected . In a nutshell, I did all this in a good faith but not for always. Thanks for being here. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੫:੨੫, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :Oh! Where you found us hostile? Just helped learning about the wiki, it's style etc.. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੫:੩੬, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: ::Important: Did you noticed that I mostly protected pages to be edited by autoconfirmed users against vandalism as most of the vandalism comes from new and IP users. Did you noticed that the pages protected (to be edited by autoconfirmed) are mostly in wikipedia namespace or templates. Did you noticed how many times the wikipedia namespace (wikipedia:about, wikipedia:privacy policy, wikipedia:disclaimer etc.) pages have been vandalised? Why new users need to edit wikipedia namespace and templates instead of editing main namespace articles and get experience? Are the protected ones encyclopedic to be of interest of new users and can help new users getting editing experience?
You're not so active here to know how much I'm working hard helping unexperienced ones in editing, styling, sourcing. I impoted "ProveIt" tool for making adding sources easy but still users writing without any source and sometimes makes not-to-beleive-without-source statements. Even admins don't know the style of sourcing. I got my experience on the English wiki so I think I knows the dos and don'ts very well.
The other reason of the protection was that there were only few users then from whom I would expect a help fighting vandalism? In fact, it would be just to expect from the same who vandalised. If you still feel that I must unprotect them then you have to promise helping us fighting against vandalism being much active here. The first thing you need to help us, is to know Punjabi, do you know? Please read the section twice; I think I've made some hidden points of my intention behind the activites, very clear. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੬:੧੩, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

text: TariButtar ji, I think you have no point here, you keep your nasty attitude and use it on new members, please check my talk page many places like the most recent section how he said to me "you and your hindi" and how he started with me when I said I am a Punjabi he says I'm not, many hindi words run in punjabi and mr taributtar and things wont work as you please. --ਰਾਜੇਂਦਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੬:੫੭, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :Oh! It's just as to label a minor thing in bold letters, did you noticed the word "dear" I used for you. Why you didn't mentioned that one? That's very childish and do you think that "go do your research" is any kind of politeness? 
Please don't oppose users just because they tried to help you getting right on the wiki which you take to be interfaring-in-your-personal-edits. Please learn about the wiki and respect users helping you do that. I, sometimes, found you trying to mix Hindi words with Punjabi on which I make you noticed, just it. Also, notified you about the poor Punjabi you used in articles and even you've notified by other users for same. Please don't make the wiki a battlefield. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੧੭:੧੯, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)

text: Please check me as well, I just came into this wikipedia and these editors had a hostile attitude and about my templates they really don't want others to share and edit, they force their way especially this Teributtar, his attitude about my references template is "my way is the only way". he also sends me messages as if I can't speak Punjabi which I DO NOT APPRECIATE! Seeing teributtar misusing and attacking other new users I don't think his admins rights are justified, please can we have a better one §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੧੯:੦੦, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
http://pa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ਵਰਤੌਂਕਾਰ_ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ:VibhasKS & http://pa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ਫਰਮਾ_ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ:ਸੰਦਰਭ, see what they are saying about me, Shijualex, please open a RfC case against them, and for teributtar I have a question: which user have you helped and positively effected? §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੧੯:੦੪, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
thread_title: Protection (cont.)

message: I think doing the same of the English wiki 'll let you know all the answers. I don't wanna make wiki a battlefield by answering in your style. Just do it on the English wiki. You'll get number of msgs telling you about the style and sense. If you call them attitudes of admins that's your personal opinion. Admins are here to keep wiki clean and better and they'll do rather than remain fixing with one's personal opinions.  Please be bold and try learning Punjabi. You've no right to alter Punjabi just coming from a non Punjabi community. Being an admin I can be accuse not you? Just because you're new? If everyone has his own template for personal use saying, "I live at "example" and I know only this word so I'll use only this, stop deleting" sorry but that's not wikipedia dear user. Is it not you attitude? Why you all've found only admins to blame? Is a user is acceptable in every way? Because we need users so their every personal attitude 'll be justified? Be wikipedians dears. If someone tell you to be right you call it attitude, why we not call the wiki a personal blog which everyone can have personal templates etc. For personal use. Why you just messing up with templates, you're new and should get experience by editing in the main namespace. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੨੩:੪੭, ੨ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: I'm active on this wiki from like last 3-4 months and visited every single day. I know how hard work Taributtar has done so far and must appreciate him for this. Those templates are not protected from registered users, we can edit them as well. First of all we need to develop policies for Punjabi Wikipedia, We should not direct to English Wikipedia's policies.--ਸੰਧੂ | kJ (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੦੩:੫੮, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :Thanks Kooljeet! Glad to see that there are users noticed my hard word. This is encouraging. Thank you! --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੪:੦੯, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: ::Taributtar I came from the Dutch Wikipedia, I was also told things by the other users so don't try me, since I came into this Wikipedia I don't think I've been welcome here and looking at how the admins treat people in the Dutch Wikipedia, I don't view Taributtar as capable because he has a very hostile attitude and a strong "my way is the only way" attitude, he needs to loose that attitude and learn to work nicely with this small community of pa.wiki §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੦੮:੧੩, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :::You said, "I was also told things by the other users so don't try me" oh what a polite attitude! It adds to your attitude that you've been told, yet you vandalised wiki and even accusing others bcz of your personal opinion and attitude of "I-am-always-right". Even after being told you do so it clearly means that you don't have a learning nature that is already appeared through the conflicts you're making here. Users know better about my attitude and one 'll not check your comment here to know how TariButtar is; it's recorded in the history of the wiki. The wiki has small community that's why you're not taken any action against yet, otherwise do the same on a wiki with large community you'll learn better. And, please repaire your behaviour and try a learning nature. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੮:੪੦, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Havoc is going on here HAVOC, we NEED another administrator, the community seems to be breaking apart, so from your side that thinks "I'm hostile" please nominate somebody so we can bridge this gap between our community, please co-operate --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੦੮:੫੦, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
Oh yes TariButtar like your attitude is aby better §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੦੯:੧੨, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
thread_title: Cont.

message: Zarienah, please don't. It'll add to conflicts as there is no one as experienced to be, if another one is here the conflicts will increase and wiki'll be just a battlefield. We have only few users and many of them even not know about spacing yet (the users have not written a single article to which one say a better encyclopedic in almost every sense. I'm not talking about the minor mistakes even users ignoring/don't know important things). We need , I think, a bureaucrat from the meta wiki or other better experienced user. Users can talk it on better why an admin, what changes after being an admin is it change ones mind and make much sharper to solve conflict. I think we need a much more experienced one from outside the wiki. I'll suggest for anyone from the English wiki or MetaWiki. --tari buttar [ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ] ੦੯:੨੦, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: I'm not creating conflicts, I'm thinking for the better of this wiki. --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੧੦:੨੪, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: : I seriously doubt that Zarienah is thinking for the better of this wiki. --Satdeep gill (ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ) ੧੦:੩੫, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
replies: text: :: Aha! and I'm sure you are with your garbage English templates! Wikipedia is not your personal battlefield Satdeep, keep things in-between me & you with Email, this is Wikipedia where we all work to better things if you have a personal problem use email or a medium outside the wiki --Zarienah ਗੱਲ-ਬਾਤ • ਯੋਗਦਾਨ ੧੦:੪੪, ੩ ਅਕਤੂਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
thread_title: Cont. 2

message: I think this should be named more specifically as ਫ਼ਾਈਲ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ §§VibhasKSਚਰਚਾ ੦੬:੧੭, ੧੧ ਨਵੰਬਰ ੨੦੧੨ (UTC)
thread_title:  Name change