Diskusjon:Portugisisk

message: Denne artikkelen blir bytta ut med en ny en idag. Med vennlig hilsen Alexanderkg 11. nov 2007 kl. 16:47 (CET)
replies: text: Da var den på plass  Alexanderkg 11. nov 2007 kl. 17:10 (CET)
replies: text: :Ser veldig bra ut. *applaus* --Harry Wad (HTM) 11. nov 2007 kl. 19:31 (CET)
replies: text: ::Takk takk  Alexanderkg 11. nov 2007 kl. 21:24 (CET)
thread_title:  Ny artikkel publiseres idag 

message: Artikkelen har altfor mange eksterne lenker. Vil ikke "slakte" selv, men det bør gjøres prioriteringer der, det er ikke oversiktelig og tilfredsstiller ikke normer for ekstern lenking. Btd 30. nov 2007 kl. 20:24 (CET)
replies: text: Hvor går grensen for hvor mye man kan ha av informative lenker? Alexanderkg 30. nov 2007 kl. 21:32 (CET)
replies: text: :Nå er det ryddet opp en del :-) Alexanderkg 21. jan 2008 kl. 17:24 (CET)
Nå er det aktuelt igjen. Artikkelen har for øyeblikket 44 eksterne lenker. Jeg tror det med fordel kan kuttes ned til 4 eller færre. - Soulkeeper 30. jan 2010 kl. 18:45 (CET)
thread_title: Eksterne lenker

message: Dear friends, Portuguese is not yet an official language in Equatorial Guinea. The Government (President and Prime-Minister) have approved july 20th 2011 a decrete for the introduction of the language, but the decret is yet waiting for approval by the People's Representative Chamber. It will come in force 20 days after the publication of the approved decret in the official state gazette. All this you can see here: http://www.guineaecuatorialpress.com/noticia.php?id=703 here: http://www.guineaecuatorialpress.com/imgdb/2010/20-7-2010Decretosobreelportuguescomoidiomaoficial.pdf and here: http://www.guineaecuatorialpress.com/noticia.php?id=712 , specially in the second link wich is the actual diplome.212.68.229.178
Kjære venner, er portugisisk ennå ikke et offisielt språk i Ekvatorial Guinea. Regjeringen (president og statsminister) har godkjent den 20 juli 2011 en decrete for innføring av språket, men decret er ennå venter på godkjenning av Folkets Representative Chamber. Det vil komme i kraft 20 dager etter offentliggjøringen av godkjente decret i den offisielle tilstand Gazette. Alt dette kan du se her: http://www.guineaecuatorialpress.com/noticia.php?id=703 her: http://www.guineaecuatorialpress.com/imgdb/2010/20-7-2010Decretosobreelportuguescomoidiomaoficial.pdf og her: http://www.guineaecuatorialpress.com/noticia.php?id=712, spesielt i den første (2nd) linken som er den faktiske diplome  212.68.229.178.
thread_title: Ekvatorial-Guinea

message: Hi. There is no such thing as these Angolan dialects of Portuguese as indicated on that map. This information has been passed from WP to WP without any basis or foundation. If this is to be rated as a top article, investigate find usable information from credible sources and act accordingly. Just copying what other WP say is a disservice. Best regards, Rui Gabriel Correia (diskusjon) 27. jul. 2014 kl. 21:05 (CEST)
replies: text: Please do not change the article when you do not understand Norwegian. Please make your suggestions here and preferably with references. Please make a fuller statement of what you want and why. We do know information has a tendency to wander from WP to WP and we are interested in exactly which information you are referring to and where to find better information than we have.   --ツツDyveldi ☯ prat  ✉ post 1. aug. 2017 kl. 01:43 (CEST)
replies: text: :If it means anything to you, I removed that information and that fake map from the Portuguese and English Wikipedias and no-one challenged my decision. Or you can contact the creator of the map, PedroPVZ and ask him for sources. Best regards, Rui Gabriel Correia (diskusjon) 1. aug. 2017 kl. 22:32 (CEST)
I ran a quick search in Google Scholar and there seems to be mentions of Angolan dialects of Portuguese, but it is not entirely clear, perhaps it is a "creol" language these scholarly sources mention. I think the matter can not be solved simply by removing the map. Please use scholarly sources to clarify to the terminology regarding variants of Portuguese. --Vennlig hilsen Erik d.y. 1. aug. 2017 kl. 23:09 (CEST)

text: (Sorry for writing in norwegian, Rui Gabriel). Vær snille å huske Wikipedia:Verifiserbarhet#Bevisbyrden. Hvis dere vil sette teksten tilbake i artikkelen, så har dere ansvar for å verifisere at teksten er etterrettelig. Mvh --M O Haugen (diskusjon) 2. aug. 2017 kl. 15:26 (CEST)
replies: text: :Jada, jeg skal ikke involvere meg i denne og har ikke tenkt å sette det slettede innholdet tilbake, men jeg ville forsikre meg om at slettingen ikke var POV - at det ikke kommer noen protester ved sletting på andre Wikis er et svakt argument. Vennlig hilsen Erik d.y. 2. aug. 2017 kl. 16:12 (CEST)
replies: text: ::I will not reinsert the text before I have checked. Checking the information was always the intention. That is why I asked Rui Gabriel Correia  for some more information. For instance links to discussions on Portuguese WP about this.  --ツツDyveldi ☯ prat  ✉ post 2. aug. 2017 kl. 23:14 (CEST)
replies: text: :::I believe :pt:Dialeto sulista (Angola) etc. should be proposed for deletion. Presumably a discussion on pt.wp would help settle the question. --Wikijens (diskusjon) 2. aug. 2017 kl. 23:23 (CEST)

text: Comment: There may be problems between languages where words are alike, but meanings may differ to a high degree. In everyday Norwegian we tend to call it a dialect when tonality and pronoúnciation of some words makes it possible to make a precise guess to where the talker grew up. Even with todays evening out of linguistic differences we tend to talk about a lot of local «dialects». Some few are clearly sociolects. but there are still a lot of geographic differences to be considered. This may lead to differences in view about what may be a dialect even when it comes to other countries. I believe this also is valid for more countries, like Sweden, Denmark, and probably also Germany. Science and common sense is not always talking the same dialect. Good luck with the search! --Bjørn som tegner (diskusjon) 2. aug. 2017 kl. 23:41 (CEST)
replies: text: :::Thanks, everyone, the interest shown in the matter is heartwarming. The problem with the Portuguese articles on Angola is exactly the lack of interest by other users, for a number of reasons:
replies: text: :::* very few Angolan editors
replies: text: :::* the editors that drove the article on Angola are: a globally banned German editor; a second German editor with patchy knowledge of Africa; a Mozambican editor now  deceased; and an Angolan-Portuguese editor who specialises in edit-warring.

text: :::The only way to get other involved is to directly invite editors, as I did here. But if the question involves spelling, then you will get nowhere because fights break out over which spelling to use. The interest is so low that anyone can insert anything that it will go undetected for a long time.

text: :::Now back to the Angolan dialects of Portuguese. Let me start off by saying that it is epistemologically impossible to prove that something does not exist, which is why is such a case the opposite is done - to try to prove that it does exist. I.e., One cannot prove that green chickens do not exist, but if they do exist, someone can prove it with the relevant evidence. So, seeing that I cannot present evidence to prove that these dialects do not exist, the only other productive avenue is to prove that the manner in which the information was created does not stand up to the test of Wikipedia criteria. This might come across as being ad hominem, but that is not the intention, it is out of necessity.

text: :::That map was created in 2004, as it says here, when very little of the Portuguese Wikipedia was referenced, it was a wild west, free for all and most additions of information went unchallenged. The editor worked on the article on Angolan Portuguese in the English Wikipedia without adding a single reference for a whole nine years. The article in Portuguese was translated from the English two years later, with a version of the map created by the same auther that was deleted. PedroPVZ created the existing map, like he created others, by using the WP as source, as it says in the legend, that it was "Made by en:user:PedroPVZ from wikipedia's Maps".

text: ::: When I first came across that map my first reaction was to look into its origins, the information used to create it etc. I found none and seem to recall that I discussed it with the editor, but a few attempts today to locate that conversation have not been very successful, though I found other interactions with that editor. Perhaps the discussion might have been deleted.

text: :::That editor is not much given to dialogue, as you can see here, requested here to discuss the content added by him, and by his own admission, here, where he says "I'm not much into discussions in talk pages".

text: :::That editor's knowledge of linguistics is at best qquestionable, as you can see from some of his statements, such as here, where he says (in Portuguese) that in linguistics "As far as dialects is concerned, it is only a a synonym for accent" [Quanto aos dialectos é apenas um sinónimo de sotaque, na linguística!]". He also claims here (in English) that there is one dialect in Portugal and one in Brazil]. His other comments here also serve to prove the mix-up between different concepts.

text: :::More recently, the editor contradicts most of his erarlier work, as you can see here, going as far as pointing out  this article (a very respected site on anything on the Portuguese language), on Portuguese spoken in african countries, which says that "one thing that does not exist, is the systematic survey of the common idiosyncratic features of the Portuguese spoken in each of these territories [ uma coisa que não existe, que é o levantamento sistemático dos traços idiossincráticos comuns do português falado em cada um destes territórios nacionais.]".

text: :::  Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this discussion.

text: :::  No need to apologise, after all, I should thank you for allowing me to express myself in English.

text: ::: Yes, you are absolutely correct when you point out that "at det ikke kommer noen protester ved sletting på andre Wikis er et svakt argument", especially in light of the fact that in articles of low visibility a lot can go undetected for quite some time, as I also mentioned above. However, I deleted it at Língua portuguesa, a very high-profile article, edited by most of the first tier of editors.

text: ::: I am in full agreement with you. I have eliminated the map from about 8 or so articles in the Portuguese Wikipedia; I left it in :pt:Dialeto sulista (Angola) and :pt:Dialeto benguelense to leave those articles untouched until I have the time to propose deletion, which is always a hassle for me, as there are so many modalities and steps to follow, that are quite time consuming.

text: ::: Your point is quite valid, and it is a key issue in this discussion, as, as I pointed above, the creator of that map and information also mizes up the different conceps.

text: :::User:Kwamikagami is semi-retired, but I would like nonetheless to seek his input here. We have crossed paths over and over, sometimes clashing, but always arriving at a solution. As I don't know anyone I can consider an authority in the Norwegian Wikipedia, I take the liberty to invite Kwami here.

text: ::: I thank you for your time. Regards, Rui Gabriel Correia (diskusjon) 4. aug. 2017 kl. 01:25 (CEST)
thread_title:  Angolan dialects 

message: Jeg har nettopp endret 12 ekstern(e) lenke(r) i artikkelen Portugisisk. Sjekk gjerne at endringen min er OK. Hvis du ønsker at jeg skal ignorere disse lenkene eller hele siden, eller hvis du har andre spørsmål, se denne spørsmålssiden. Jeg har gjort følgende endringer:
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060829130912/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som69.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som69.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060626155221/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som40.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som40.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060626155120/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som44.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som44.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060829131232/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som1.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som1.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060626154823/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som49.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som49.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060626155023/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som9.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som9.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060715224707/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som22.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som22.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060626155225/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som60.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som60.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060626155125/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som14.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som14.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060829130843/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som6.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som6.html
*Rettet formatering/bruk for http://valesne.homestead.com/untitled3.html
*Rettet formatering/bruk for http://www.italian.org.cn/web/portuguese/epcd.rar
Med hilsen—InternetArchiveBot (Rapporter feil) 5. jul. 2017 kl. 18:01 (CEST)
thread_title:  Endret eksterne lenker 

message: Jeg har nettopp endret 9 ekstern(e) lenke(r) i artikkelen Portugisisk. Sjekk gjerne at endringen min er OK. Hvis du ønsker at jeg skal ignorere disse lenkene eller hele siden, eller hvis du har andre spørsmål, se denne spørsmålssiden. Jeg har gjort følgende endringer:
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071030034105/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som90.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som90.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071015043909/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som91.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som91.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20070930235512/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som85.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som85.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071020031533/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som87.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som87.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20070930231937/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som88.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som88.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071029040644/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som92.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som92.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20070930230102/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som89.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som89.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20070927224820/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som83.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som83.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071029040638/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som84.html til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/hlp/geografia/som84.html
*La til -tagg til http://www.dicionarios-online.com/
*La til -tagg til http://beta.visl.sdu.dk/
Med hilsen—InternetArchiveBot (Rapporter feil) 24. jul. 2017 kl. 11:18 (CEST)
thread_title:  Endret eksterne lenker 

message: Artikkelen kunne trengt litt oppussing. Den har en enorm lenkefarm under ¶ Eksterne lenker, med mye døde lenker. I tillegg mangler den referanser, og er kanskje også utdatert? Ikke spør meg, eu não falo português. --Eisfbnore 12. mai 2020 kl. 02:33 (CEST)
replies: text: Det er bare å gå i gang! --Vennlig hilsen Erik d.y. 12. mai 2020 kl. 10:05 (CEST)
thread_title:  Gjennomgang av artikkel 

message: Jeg har nettopp endret 4 ekstern(e) lenke(r) i artikkelen Portugisisk. Sjekk gjerne at endringen min er OK. Hvis du ønsker at jeg skal ignorere disse lenkene eller hele siden, eller hvis du har andre spørsmål, se denne spørsmålssiden. Jeg har gjort følgende endringer:
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20190828010834/https://lusografia.org/ til http://www.lusografia.org/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20121221111452/http://www.iilp-cplp.cv/ til http://www.iilp-cplp.cv/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20060224011906/http://www.dicionarios-online.com/ til http://www.dicionarios-online.com/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20160302032013/http://beta.visl.sdu.dk/ til http://beta.visl.sdu.dk/
Med hilsen—InternetArchiveBot (Rapporter feil) 2. mar. 2021 kl. 12:13 (CET)
thread_title:  Endret eksterne lenker 

message: Jeg har nettopp endret 6 ekstern(e) lenke(r) i artikkelen Portugisisk. Sjekk gjerne at endringen min er OK. Hvis du ønsker at jeg skal ignorere disse lenkene eller hele siden, eller hvis du har andre spørsmål, se denne spørsmålssiden. Jeg har gjort følgende endringer:
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20050310224741/http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/bases/lingua.htm til http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/bases/lingua.htm
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20100621050456/http://www.folium.no/boker/ordboker.html til http://folium.no/boker/ordboker.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071026130841/http://www.italian.org.cn/web/portuguese/epcd.bgl til http://www.italian.org.cn/web/portuguese/epcd.bgl
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071126132056/http://www.qwerkop.de/portuguese-dict.php til http://www.qwerkop.de/portuguese-dict.php
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20070928211149/http://199.33.141.196/courses/idm2002/leung/oportugues/intro/pronunciation.html til http://199.33.141.196/courses/idm2002/leung/oportugues/intro/pronunciation.html
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20041204165945/http://hjem.tele2adsl.dk/johnmadsen/porturam.html til http://hjem.tele2adsl.dk/johnmadsen/porturam.html
Med hilsen—InternetArchiveBot (Rapporter feil) 25. sep. 2021 kl. 08:21 (CEST)
thread_title:  Endret eksterne lenker 

message: Jeg har nettopp endret 8 ekstern(e) lenke(r) i artikkelen Portugisisk. Sjekk gjerne at endringen min er OK. Hvis du ønsker at jeg skal ignorere disse lenkene eller hele siden, eller hvis du har andre spørsmål, se denne spørsmålssiden. Jeg har gjort følgende endringer:
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071007213357/http://home.tiscalinet.ch/kerguelen/dicos/ til http://home.tiscalinet.ch/kerguelen/dicos
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071013152237/http://infopaw.com/portuguese til http://www.infopaw.com/portuguese
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20150801060915/http://bepolyglot.com/ til http://www.bepolyglot.com/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20110207215216/http://brazilianportuguesepod.com/ til http://www.brazilianportuguesepod.com/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20110615033406/http://www.learnportuguese.elanguageschool.net/ til http://learnportuguese.elanguageschool.net/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071013014625/http://brazilian-portuguese.net/ til http://www.brazilian-portuguese.net/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20170310124529/http://www.saunalahti.fi/~huuhilo/portuguese/ til http://www.saunalahti.fi/~huuhilo/portuguese/
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20080719175000/http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/helcio_domingues til http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/helcio_domingues/
Med hilsen—InternetArchiveBot (Rapporter feil) 20. jun. 2023 kl. 23:07 (CEST)
thread_title:  Endret eksterne lenker 

message: Jeg har nettopp endret 1 ekstern(e) lenke(r) i artikkelen Portugisisk. Sjekk gjerne at endringen min er OK. Hvis du ønsker at jeg skal ignorere disse lenkene eller hele siden, eller hvis du har andre spørsmål, se denne spørsmålssiden. Jeg har gjort følgende endringer:
*La til arkivet https://web.archive.org/web/20071113061430/http://www.webbusca.com.br/tradutor/traduz.asp til http://www.webbusca.com.br/tradutor/traduz.asp
Med hilsen—InternetArchiveBot (Rapporter feil) 16. jul. 2023 kl. 22:14 (CEST)
thread_title:  Endret eksterne lenker