Overleg:Engelse Gemenebest

message: Wordt het Protectoraat ingedeeld onder het Engelse Gemenebest? Dat zijn toch twee verschillende episodes? Tortelduifje (overleg) 21 mei 2021 18:56 (CEST)
replies: text: Op de Engelse Wikipedia wordt dit het Interregnum (England) genoemd. Tortelduifje (overleg) 21 mei 2021 19:39 (CEST)
thread_title: Gemenebest en Protectoraat

message: Ik verzamel hier belangrijke citaten om latere uitspraken te rechtvaardigen. De boeken zijn van de bibliotheek. Bij de inlevering ben ik de citaten anders kwijt. Tortelduifje (overleg) 18 nov 2021 10:51 (CET)
===Raoul Van Caenegem===
* Van Caenegem, p 177: “Hoewel het Rump Parliament voorlopig in functie bleef, berustte de effectieve macht bij het leger: toen het Rump Parliament Cromwell op allerlei manieren dwarsboomde, werd het in 1653 door musketiers uiteengedreven.”
* Van Caenegem, p 177: “Zijn bewind was een merkwaardig mengsel van theocratie en militaire dictatuur. Hijzelf was een zeldzame combinatie van religieuze bewogenheid, politiek inzicht en militair leiderschap.”
* Van Caenegem, p 177: “het was in het Long Parliament dat zijn ster vanaf 1640 begon te rijzen. Hij ontpopte zich niet alleen tot een onverzettelijke puriteinse politicus, maar ook tot een groot militair organisator en aanvoerder”
* Van Caenegem, p 177: “Hij slaagde er niet in zijn militair bewind in constitutionele vormen te leiden die de consensus van de bevolking genoten.”
* Van Caenegem, p 177-178: “de leiding en redding van een zondige mensheid door een elite van heiligen is nu eenmaal geen populair programma. Wie al wat aangenaam is op de verboden lijst zet, van Kerstmis een vastendag maakt en op overspel de doodstraf stelt, kan nauwelijks rekenen op de bijval van de tot heiligheid gedwongen massa der zondaars.”
* Van Caenegem, p 178: “Hij vond trouwens het hele apparaat van de staatsvormen weinig relevant: ‘dross and dung in comparison of Christ!””
===Derek Hirst===
* Hirst, p293: “It seems clear that by replacing the trifling forty-shilling freehold franchise in the counties with a requirement of £200 in either real or personal property the Instrument narrowed the electorate”
===Barry Coward===
* Coward, p12: “During his late twenties or early thirties he underwent a spiritual experience that convinced him that God had appointed him to be one of the Elect, chosen for eternal salvation.”
* Coward, p14: “Cromwell became part of a determined campaign ... to complete the Reformation in Church government and liturgy, and to bring about a ‘godly’ inner reformation of people’s lives as well.”
* Coward, p28-29: “Gentility was not a bar to promotion in his regiments ..., but godly commitment in his officers was as important to him as gentility.”
* Coward, p42: “Significantly too, he reasserted his belief that the godly cause and the parliamentary cause were one.”
* Coward, p44: “In January 1649 Cromwell was an ardent activist among a tiny clique that pushed through the trial and execution of Charles I against the wishes of the majority represented in parliament.”
* Coward, p57: “It is true that ... had caused him to doubt whether his two aims of achieving parliamentary liberties and godly reformation could be reconciled.”
* Coward, p68: “reluctantly he had sacrificed the parliamentary cause for the godly cause.”
* Coward, p76: “He returned from Ireland more than ever aware of the kind of godly society he wanted to achieve in England.”
* Coward, p80: “... on 3 September 1651 Cromwell returned to Westminster determined to press the Rump to become the vehicule for such a reformation.”
* Coward, p90: “But, having expelled the Rump, it is highly unlikely that he had any clear idea of what to do next.”
* Coward, p99: “... display his yearning for the support of the English landed classes and for constitutional respectability, they also illustrate his sustained desire for godly reformation”
* Coward, p100: “Cromwell’s re-installation as Protector in 1657 had some of the characteristics of a royal coronation”
* Coward, p102: “He even underlined his commitment to safeguarding the social status quo by claiming in that speech that ‘property [was one of] the badges of the kingdom of Christ’.”
* Coward, p105: “Cromwell never gave a clear and specific definition of what he understood by godly reformation. ... typically vague Cromwellian references to his goal.”
* Coward, p109: “Just as he drew on ‘commonwealth’ ideals of social justice, so too Cromwell’s vision of an inner reformation – a reformation of manners – was one that had been pursued by godly men and women since at least the 1580s.”
* Coward, p110: “toleration should not be extended to ‘popery or prelacy’”
* Coward, p110: “Cromwell’s godly reformation was not intended to bring about religious plurality. His ideal was the maintainance of Protestant unity within a national Church.”
* Coward, p111: “he denounced the growth of the sectarian fragmentation of Protestantism. ... he abhorred sectarism because it was subversive of his ideal of Protestant unity. ... he was willing to allow a much greater diversity of religious forms ... For Presbyterians, Independents and Baptists, who were to be savagely persecuted after 1660, Cromwellian England was a haven of religious freedom.”
* Coward, p113: “he had a divine, providential mission to bring about a godly reformation.”
* Coward, p132: “Cromwell primarily considered the major-generals as agents for promoting the godly reformation, the task parliament had dismally failed’”
* Coward, p136: “Already the instructions included a command that the major-generals should ‘promote Godliness and Virtue’ and execute ‘the Laws against Drunkenness, Blasphemy, and taking of the Name of God in vain, bij swearing and cursing, Plays and Interludes, and prophaning of the Lord’s day, and such like wickedness and abominations. Now they were instructed also to control rigorously the number of alehouses ans suppress gaming houses and brothels in London’”
* Coward, p137: “many councillors shared Cromwell’s limited definition of liberty of conscience.’”
* Coward, p146: “by the end of February (1657) he was openly championing the abandonment of the Instrument of Government in favour of a parliamentary-approved constitution.”
* Coward, p157: “Under the Humble Petition and Advice Cromwell was empowered to name his successor”
* Coward, p162: “his main intention was to claim that the major-generals had been very succesful in pursuit of the ‘reformation of manners’. This is a judgement that has not been upheld bij historical research on the English localities in the 1650s.”
===John Morrill===
* Morrill, p38: “But he also argued that the army should not be ‘wedded and glued to forms of government’ and that ‘forms of government are (as St Paul says) dross and dung in comparison of Christ’”
* Morrill, p53: “Cromwell, then, was no more wedded to forms of government in the church than in the state.”
* Morrill, p77: “At any rate, he used strong language and brute force to dissolve the Rump.”
* Morrill, p83: “When parliament met (1e Protectorate Parliament), the council had plucked out about a dozen very obvious royalists as not being men ‘of know integrity, fearing God, and of good conversation’”
* Morrill, p85: “He took a close personal interest both in the efforts of the major-generals to encourage ‘a reformation of manner’ ...”
* Morrill, p85: “On this occasion (2e Protectorate Parliament) the council ruled that more than 100 of those elected were ineligible”
* Morrill, p87: “In fact he was often embattled and overborne by his councillors, by his parliaments, and perhaps bij his army colleagues.”
* Morrill, p88: “Cromwell was often dragged along reluctantly by what his councillors and principal officers of state advised him to do.”
* Morrill, p90: “the major-generals, the regional governors responsible for local security and ‘a reformation of manners’”
* Morrill, p91: “By his final speeches he was old, tired, and disillusioned.’”
* Morrill, p93: “Cromwell’s attemps to realize his vision of a godly reformed nation abandoning the things of the flesh for the things of the spirit ...’”
* Morrill, p102: “He defended the making of law outside the parliament: ‘if nothing should ever be done but what is according to law, the throat of the nation may be cut while we send for some to make a law’”
* Morrill, p120: “He had a deep sense of being propelled by God into leading his people towards a promised land. He had an imperfect sense of what the promised land would look like, and only a magpie instinct for picking up the latest bright and shiny idea of how to make the next move towards it.”
* Morrill, p121: “He was not wedded and glued to forms of government. He was not bound by human law. If God called upon him to be the human instrument of his wrath, he would not flinch.”
thread_title: Citaten over Oliver Cromwell en zijn Protectoraat

message: * Van Caenegem, p 177: “Hoewel het Rump Parliament voorlopig in functie bleef, berustte de effectieve macht bij het leger: toen het Rump Parliament Cromwell op allerlei manieren dwarsboomde, werd het in 1653 door musketiers uiteengedreven.”
* Van Caenegem, p 177: “Zijn bewind was een merkwaardig mengsel van theocratie en militaire dictatuur. Hijzelf was een zeldzame combinatie van religieuze bewogenheid, politiek inzicht en militair leiderschap.”
* Van Caenegem, p 177: “het was in het Long Parliament dat zijn ster vanaf 1640 begon te rijzen. Hij ontpopte zich niet alleen tot een onverzettelijke puriteinse politicus, maar ook tot een groot militair organisator en aanvoerder”
* Van Caenegem, p 177: “Hij slaagde er niet in zijn militair bewind in constitutionele vormen te leiden die de consensus van de bevolking genoten.”
* Van Caenegem, p 177-178: “de leiding en redding van een zondige mensheid door een elite van heiligen is nu eenmaal geen populair programma. Wie al wat aangenaam is op de verboden lijst zet, van Kerstmis een vastendag maakt en op overspel de doodstraf stelt, kan nauwelijks rekenen op de bijval van de tot heiligheid gedwongen massa der zondaars.”
* Van Caenegem, p 178: “Hij vond trouwens het hele apparaat van de staatsvormen weinig relevant: ‘dross and dung in comparison of Christ!””
thread_title: Raoul Van Caenegem

message: * Hirst, p293: “It seems clear that by replacing the trifling forty-shilling freehold franchise in the counties with a requirement of £200 in either real or personal property the Instrument narrowed the electorate”
thread_title: Derek Hirst

message: * Coward, p12: “During his late twenties or early thirties he underwent a spiritual experience that convinced him that God had appointed him to be one of the Elect, chosen for eternal salvation.”
* Coward, p14: “Cromwell became part of a determined campaign ... to complete the Reformation in Church government and liturgy, and to bring about a ‘godly’ inner reformation of people’s lives as well.”
* Coward, p28-29: “Gentility was not a bar to promotion in his regiments ..., but godly commitment in his officers was as important to him as gentility.”
* Coward, p42: “Significantly too, he reasserted his belief that the godly cause and the parliamentary cause were one.”
* Coward, p44: “In January 1649 Cromwell was an ardent activist among a tiny clique that pushed through the trial and execution of Charles I against the wishes of the majority represented in parliament.”
* Coward, p57: “It is true that ... had caused him to doubt whether his two aims of achieving parliamentary liberties and godly reformation could be reconciled.”
* Coward, p68: “reluctantly he had sacrificed the parliamentary cause for the godly cause.”
* Coward, p76: “He returned from Ireland more than ever aware of the kind of godly society he wanted to achieve in England.”
* Coward, p80: “... on 3 September 1651 Cromwell returned to Westminster determined to press the Rump to become the vehicule for such a reformation.”
* Coward, p90: “But, having expelled the Rump, it is highly unlikely that he had any clear idea of what to do next.”
* Coward, p99: “... display his yearning for the support of the English landed classes and for constitutional respectability, they also illustrate his sustained desire for godly reformation”
* Coward, p100: “Cromwell’s re-installation as Protector in 1657 had some of the characteristics of a royal coronation”
* Coward, p102: “He even underlined his commitment to safeguarding the social status quo by claiming in that speech that ‘property [was one of] the badges of the kingdom of Christ’.”
* Coward, p105: “Cromwell never gave a clear and specific definition of what he understood by godly reformation. ... typically vague Cromwellian references to his goal.”
* Coward, p109: “Just as he drew on ‘commonwealth’ ideals of social justice, so too Cromwell’s vision of an inner reformation – a reformation of manners – was one that had been pursued by godly men and women since at least the 1580s.”
* Coward, p110: “toleration should not be extended to ‘popery or prelacy’”
* Coward, p110: “Cromwell’s godly reformation was not intended to bring about religious plurality. His ideal was the maintainance of Protestant unity within a national Church.”
* Coward, p111: “he denounced the growth of the sectarian fragmentation of Protestantism. ... he abhorred sectarism because it was subversive of his ideal of Protestant unity. ... he was willing to allow a much greater diversity of religious forms ... For Presbyterians, Independents and Baptists, who were to be savagely persecuted after 1660, Cromwellian England was a haven of religious freedom.”
* Coward, p113: “he had a divine, providential mission to bring about a godly reformation.”
* Coward, p132: “Cromwell primarily considered the major-generals as agents for promoting the godly reformation, the task parliament had dismally failed’”
* Coward, p136: “Already the instructions included a command that the major-generals should ‘promote Godliness and Virtue’ and execute ‘the Laws against Drunkenness, Blasphemy, and taking of the Name of God in vain, bij swearing and cursing, Plays and Interludes, and prophaning of the Lord’s day, and such like wickedness and abominations. Now they were instructed also to control rigorously the number of alehouses ans suppress gaming houses and brothels in London’”
* Coward, p137: “many councillors shared Cromwell’s limited definition of liberty of conscience.’”
* Coward, p146: “by the end of February (1657) he was openly championing the abandonment of the Instrument of Government in favour of a parliamentary-approved constitution.”
* Coward, p157: “Under the Humble Petition and Advice Cromwell was empowered to name his successor”
* Coward, p162: “his main intention was to claim that the major-generals had been very succesful in pursuit of the ‘reformation of manners’. This is a judgement that has not been upheld bij historical research on the English localities in the 1650s.”
thread_title: Barry Coward

message: * Morrill, p38: “But he also argued that the army should not be ‘wedded and glued to forms of government’ and that ‘forms of government are (as St Paul says) dross and dung in comparison of Christ’”
* Morrill, p53: “Cromwell, then, was no more wedded to forms of government in the church than in the state.”
* Morrill, p77: “At any rate, he used strong language and brute force to dissolve the Rump.”
* Morrill, p83: “When parliament met (1e Protectorate Parliament), the council had plucked out about a dozen very obvious royalists as not being men ‘of know integrity, fearing God, and of good conversation’”
* Morrill, p85: “He took a close personal interest both in the efforts of the major-generals to encourage ‘a reformation of manner’ ...”
* Morrill, p85: “On this occasion (2e Protectorate Parliament) the council ruled that more than 100 of those elected were ineligible”
* Morrill, p87: “In fact he was often embattled and overborne by his councillors, by his parliaments, and perhaps bij his army colleagues.”
* Morrill, p88: “Cromwell was often dragged along reluctantly by what his councillors and principal officers of state advised him to do.”
* Morrill, p90: “the major-generals, the regional governors responsible for local security and ‘a reformation of manners’”
* Morrill, p91: “By his final speeches he was old, tired, and disillusioned.’”
* Morrill, p93: “Cromwell’s attemps to realize his vision of a godly reformed nation abandoning the things of the flesh for the things of the spirit ...’”
* Morrill, p102: “He defended the making of law outside the parliament: ‘if nothing should ever be done but what is according to law, the throat of the nation may be cut while we send for some to make a law’”
* Morrill, p120: “He had a deep sense of being propelled by God into leading his people towards a promised land. He had an imperfect sense of what the promised land would look like, and only a magpie instinct for picking up the latest bright and shiny idea of how to make the next move towards it.”
* Morrill, p121: “He was not wedded and glued to forms of government. He was not bound by human law. If God called upon him to be the human instrument of his wrath, he would not flinch.”
thread_title: John Morrill