Disputatio:Permutatio sexus (chirurgia)

message: Quid significat (Anglice, Hispanice, Francice, Samoane, &c.) Genus reassignans chirurgia? IacobusAmor 12:56, 11 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Presumably someone was thinking "sexual reassignment surgery" but couldn't get closer than "surgery *re-assigning gender".  —Mucius Tever 04:51, 12 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :Would reassignatio sexus (chirurgia) be better? Pantocrator 11:03, 12 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Reassignatio may not be classical. The classical word adsignare seems to require a direct object (adsignare aliquid homini, to assign something to a person), and re has the primary sense of 'back' (giving us [if such a word exists] readsignare 'to assign [something] back [again] [to a person]'), so maybe the whole notion of "assigning" is the wrong way of starting to translate it. Maybe work from the idea of "change" ((com)mutatio, permutatio, etc.)? IacobusAmor 12:29, 12 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::: Yes, right. My suggestion: Permutatio sexus (chirurgia). In the text we might use also dativus finalis: "Chirurgia sexui permutando". --Neander 12:50, 12 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::I don't think any form of mutatio captures the meaning of the English 'reassignment'; it suggests that the surgery actually changes sex, which is a logical impossibility (even according to the transsexualists.).

text: ::::On the other hand, just about any grammatical title would be better than the current one. Pantocrator 13:18, 12 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::: I don't think that Vicipaedia is bound to follow the subtleties of the English word reassignment. There are other Weltanschauungen as well. Following Swedish (PC word) könskorrigering, we'd translate correctio sexús; following German, we'd translate aequatio sexús. Methinks permutatio sexús (though perhaps not conceptualising the "thing" in toto [which word does?]) captures well enough some aspects of what the operation is about. --Neander 19:02, 12 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::I don't know. It seems of all the words given here only 'reassignment' is both neutral and accurate. Reassignatio may never have been used in Latin before, but it's pretty clear, isn't it? Pantocrator 23:37, 12 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::Clear? Assign back?, assign again? Jacobus' point is on the mark. I continue to question the meaning of this phrase. How can sex be *assigned*? (signare to mark,stamp; assignare =assign, alot, award,...) Perhaps *legally* but physically!? Even if someone receives some surgery how does that reassign their sex? And if it can be assigned, wouldn't it be a man who assigns it *by means of surgery* not surgery (*personified*) assigning it? Not only is reassignatio unclassical here, it simply is off the mark in two separate semantic respects. On the other hand, Neander's permutatio sexus also does not capture every minutiae but it capture the ostensive external change; or perhaps the idea could be made more specific to avoid this criticism by emphasizing what the surgery actually does: "changing of sexual characteristics" ="permutatio adiunctorum sexualium"? Personally I like the brevity of permutatio sexus better and what is meant specifically can be defined in the lemma.--24.183.186.151 00:00, 13 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::I like it too.--Ioscius∞ 00:43, 13 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::::So do I. "Reassignment" seems quite inaccurate to me: it would be what the hospital authorities do to your record card. What you ask the surgeon to do is to make a change, and it's best to avoid telling him it's a logical impossibility :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:40, 13 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::::I felt there was enough consensus here to change to a form which at least makes sense, so I've made the move. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:25, 14 Februarii 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Titulus, lemma