Disputatio:Via Litoris Pacifici

message: We need to decide on some sort of standardized naming system for roads. Here are my suggestions:
* Interstate: Autovia Intercivitalis
** Interstate 15: Autovia Intercivitalis 15
* State Route/State Highway/etc.: Via [state-genitive]
** California State Route 78: Via Californiae 78
I don't know how things work outside of the U.S. And county routes are administered differently in different states; I know that in California, where I live, one county route may span multiple counties, and have multiple names (County Route S2 is also called San Diego County Route S2 and Imperial County Route S2, for example). In California's case, I'd go with Via Comitatalis S2 (California). Don't know about other states.
Any thoughts? -Branddobbe 02:49, 20 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 'Road' is iter and via. My dictionary lists several kinds & conditions of roads:
replies: text: :A high or great road: Via publica, trita, frequens, celebris.

text: :A bad, or troublesome road: Via interrupta, lutosa, lutulenta, aspera, confragosa, salebrosa.

text: :A smooth road (in modern English, paved?): Via plana, expedita, aperta.

text: :A good or open road: Via aperta, expedita; iter patens.

text: :A direct road: Via recta.

text: :A cross road: Via transversa.

text: :A nearer road: Via brevior, commendiaria ; viae commendium.

text: :The highway: Via regia, via trita.

text: For 'interstate', perhaps inter civitates. This autovia ('self-road'?) mixes Greek & Latin. Would an adjective be better than a genitive, as in Via 78 Californiensis ? IacobusAmor 04:18, 20 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :"Autovia" seems to already be established in Vicipaedia as "freeway". I mean, it already has an article and all.

text: :Also, if you're going to have an adjective in the name of a road, it makes more sense to me to have it come before the number. I'm not fluent in Latin, but it sounds better to me. -Branddobbe 04:43, 20 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

text: :P.S. I made Autovia Intercivitalis 15 before I had a chance to read these comments. sry
replies: text: ::Re: "if you're going to have an adjective in the name of a road, it makes more sense to me to have it come before the number. I'm not fluent in Latin, but it sounds better to me."—How do you think the Roman legions were numbered & named? IacobusAmor 13:22, 20 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::I have no idea what that means. -Branddobbe 08:48, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Consider the Legio I Germanica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_I), the Legio VI Victrix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_VI_Victrix), the Legio VIII Hispana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_IX_Hispana), the Legio XII Fulminata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_XII_Fulminata), and the other Roman legions: their names illustrate a syntactical pattern that you say makes less sense and sounds worse, but there they are. IacobusAmor 10:53, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

text: :::There is a difference between what was done in naming the legions and what we need to do with roads. In the case of the legions the adjectives don't (excluding one exceptional case) serve to distinguish one legion from another. The numbers do that. The adjectives are really nicknames. In the case of roads, however, we need a sort of progression from general to particular: Road > California state > no. 1.  So I think, like Branddobbe, I would put the Californiae or Californiensis before the number, not after it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:30, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Yes, that makes sense, except that in common parlance in America, we speak of "state road 10," not "Alabama road 10" ; the name of the state is usually obvious and hardly ever specified, by speakers & writers. Now how about numbered county roads (which in the United States are distinguished from state roads) ? If we can accept via civitatis 10, we need a term for "county road 10." ¶ Would anybody take via civitatis 10 to mean 'road of state number 10' (i.e., the tenth state) ? If so, more thinking may be required. IacobusAmor 15:34, 22 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::In a Wikipedia article, you wouldn't ever say "state road 10", you would say "California state route 10" or "Illinois highway 10" or whatever. No one is going to assume you're talking about the tenth California. -Branddobbe 04:39, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::Civitatis 10 would be 'tenth state', not 'tenth California'. But as to Wikipedia articles that wouldn't ever say "state road 10," here's an excerpt from the English-language wikipedia :
replies: text: :::::::County Road 427 (CR 427), formerly State Road 427 (SR 427), is a county highway in Orange and Seminole Counties in the U.S. state of Florida. It runs along the old Dixie Highway from Maitland to Sanford, replaced for through traffic by the parallel U.S. Highway 17/92 (SR 15/SR 600). The north end of CR 427 is the south end of County Road 425, where Orlando Drive curves into Sanford Avenue. CR 425, formerly State Road 425, was once planned to continue south, possibly across Lake Jesup. To the north, CR 425 continues the old Dixie Highway alignment to State Road 46 (25th Street).

text: ::::::That's how people talk ; they don't ordinarily name the state or the county : such a name, however, should appear in the title, perhaps in the manner that en: does it, as in the title of the article quoted above : County Road 427 (Florida). En: handles state roads similarly. IacobusAmor 05:47, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::I confess that I haven't been following this conversation, but I did show it to a friend who's a major road geek (yes, there are such things), and here's what he had to say:
replies: text: ::::::::And IacobusAmor in that talk page incorrectly extrapolates a regionalism.
replies: text: :::::::::FYI: I didn't write that page in en: ; that's a direct quotation above : I didn't manipulate it to prove my point (except by adding some of the boldface). IacobusAmor 15:51, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::::This conversation is getting hard to follow. We may need to edit the formatting better. Anyway, I would prefer that my friend come speak for himself, but I doubt he will. In any case I believe what he was referring to was your comment "[t]hat's how people talk ; they don't ordinarily name the state or the county...."  --Iustinus 18:28, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

text: ::::::::::Edit: I changed my friend's comments to blue, hopefully that helps. --Iustinus 18:33, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

text: ::::::::Well, he talks about "in America" people would refer to "State road 10" rather than "Alabama road 10"....  Well...  Maybe in Alabama...

text: ::::::::In Southern California at least, you know, it's just "The".
replies: text: :::::::::You do ? California doesn't have a "California State Road 10" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highways_numbered_10). Perhaps the reference is to a route irrelevant to the discussion : INTERSTATE 10. IacobusAmor 15:51, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::::I believe he means that in conversation people usually say "the ten" or something like that.  --Iustinus 18:28, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::::::We got that point the first time, and it remains irrelevant to the question of what to call a state road. If people call it "the Ten," then it's just Decem ; but that's popular parlance, and I suppose it more formally would be Via Decima Inter Civitates, 'Interstate Highway Ten', perhaps not Via Inter Civitates Decem. IacobusAmor 20:18, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::::::>Sigh<, you don't mean you're actually going to make me read this conversation, do you? ;) --Iustinus 20:43, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)

text: ::::::::In Minnesota, the parlance would be just "Highway X", I remember.

text: ::::::::And here, people *do* specify the state by proper name.

text: :::::::"Here" is Oregon. --Iustinus 07:04, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::Gee, I guess en: must be under the control of my fellow-Floridians. Since the entire wiki enterprise is legally based in Florida, it seems that Florida rules must apply ! ::winkwink:: IacobusAmor 15:31, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't it a reasonable guess that "California Road 10" would rightly be Decima Via Californiensis, or Decima Californiae Via, or Via Decima Californiensis ? IacobusAmor 16:06, 24 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Names of roads