Disputatio:Productus domesticus generalis

message: I used "patria" instead of "civitas" because I am doing the list by sovereign country. "Civitas" refers to a part of a large country, what we would refer to as a "state".
replies: text: I have some doubts that we can use patria in this sense. In any case it is not possible in Italian, where, if you want avoid any confusion with no-sovereign states, you could perhaps use nazione (natio) but not patria. We can wait to see what the others think. Ciao--Massimo Macconi 06:49, 28 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :While all the countries I put on this list are sovereign ones, I am also thinking of adding some non sovereign ones such as Gibraltar and Greenland. I wouldn't want to use "natio", as that for me implies a group of people of a certain culture or ethnicity rather than a physical country. My opinion is to still use "patria", but I think we should get more opinions. Kedemus 18:38, 20 Octobris 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::I have no strong feelings here: however, "patria" means literally "fatherland", so it's a very ethnic concept (and sexist, some would say). You might think about "regio", which is often used without reference to national status; or, to make it clear that the status of items in the list will vary, you might think of "Natio aut Regio". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:57, 20 Octobris 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Coin modern Latin entitas politica? Thereby indicate that it's an "entity" of some (undefined) sort. The imprecision has already proved useful in English in the PLO entity. IacobusAmor 20:04, 20 Octobris 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::To add to this long-dead discussion, I will just note that civitas is now widespread on Vicipaedia in the sense of both 'sovereign state' and 'constituent state', and this seems to fit OK with Lewis and Short's definition, "the citizens united in a community , the body - politic , the state , and as this consists of one city and its territory, or of several cities". Lesgles (disputatio) 20:26, 20 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::To make the sense of 'sovereign state' clear, civitas sui iuris is available. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 23:42, 20 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
thread_title: Patria

message: I can only find productum, n., in the dictionaries. I also wonder if grossus might be better replaced by cunctus or totus. Quid censetis? Lesgles (disputatio) 20:26, 20 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: For 'product' in general, Traupman gives opus, and for the sense of 'result', exitus, -us. Regarding this opus, Cassell's agrees. The n.pl. producta, according to Cassell's, has the particular sense of 'preferable things (in the Stoic philosophy)'; Traupman has producta, but only in a general sense: 'preferable things, preferences'. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 23:42, 20 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: :Perhaps "proventus" and "redditus" are worth considering. Or, on the other hand, medieval "grossum" can mean gross product all by itself, see Du Cange (NB redditus and proventus are used in the glosses on that page). Maybe it's necessary to retain the medieval word "gross-" in some way: Romans weren't so hot on macroeconomics. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 11:18, 21 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ::I think you're right about gross, though it's interesting it is only used in English. Most European languages use forms derived from brutus; maybe they all took it from French. Curiously, the Greek and Italian phrases seem to be calques of gross in the sense of "dirty": ακαθάριστο and lordo. I put redditus in the movenda template, but I'm fine with proventus too. Lesgles (disputatio) 17:36, 22 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Reditus (with one dee) already serves for :en:Income. And what's going to serve for the numerous senses of :en:profit? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:02, 22 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Maybe proventus, then. There will always be some overlap in these words, though. "Income" can also be vectigal, profit lucrum. Going back to productum, it is used in the singular in mathematics, e.g. "productum multiplicationis". Lesgles (disputatio) 19:37, 22 Augusti 2014 (UTC)
Pro titulo apud nos excogitato titulum substitui fontibus extravicipaedianis confirmatum. Praeter hunc titulum (Productus domesticus generalis) additicios repperi, unum admodum similem (generalis productus domesticus, [Ephemeris 2006]) et alterum omnino differentem (Totus internus proventus [Ephemeris 2005]). Neander (disputatio) 19:43, 26 Decembris 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Productus and grossus

message: Mathematical formulas can't give multiple meanings to a single symbol, so I've distinguished the second E as Em, but a more authoritative formula might want to be found. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:34, 9 Septembris 2015 (UTC)
thread_title: ''E''