Disputatio:Demetrius Šostakovič

message: ʃCur "Dimitrius", non "Demetrius"? -- Alexander Gerascenco 11:56, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Дмитрий --Alex1011 12:49, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :Дмитрий (Dmitrij), nomen Russicum originis Graecae, formam "Demetrius" sicut latinisationem suam habet. E.g., magnus dux Moscoviae Dmitrij/Dimitrij Donskoj vocatus est "Demetrius" in Rerum Moscoviticarum Commentariis Sigismundi de Herberstein. Et in Ephemeride est pagina de "Demetrio Shostakovich". -- Alexander Gerascenco 13:01, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Ex vicipaedia Anglica: Consequently, both Dimitrios and Demetrios are appropriate Latin alphabet spellings. --Alex1011 13:15, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Sure, as Homeros would have been, but the Romans of Italy seem to have preferred Homerus. Hence Demetrius, not Demetrios, most likely. IacobusAmor 13:24, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Dimitrios et Demetrios non sunt formae Latinae, sed translitterationes nominis Graeci Δημήτριος, quarum prima pronuntiationes hodiernam et mediaevalem, secunda pronuntiationem antiquam monstrat. E Vicipaedia Anglica, The Latin form of this name, Demetrius, is the spelling normally used in English speaking countries when most historical figures of this name are referred to.
replies: text: :::::Re: "E Vicipaedia Anglica, The Latin form of this name, Demetrius, is the spelling normally used in English speaking countries when most historical figures of this name are referred to."——To clarify: Wikipedia may be wrong on this point. In my experience as a native speaker of English, the most commonly heard form of the name is Dmitri. Over here, one almost never encounters Demetrius and Demetrios. IacobusAmor 15:36, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::For most people, certainly.  But there is a special class of people whose names are not just transliterated, but translated, when spoken about in English (this list today only includes popes and some monarchs among modern people, but is also used for other kinds of historical figures; e.g. we have apostles named James, not Iacobus or even Jacob—presumably this is the "most historical figures" being referred to).  For the rest of this... the Latin translation of Дмитрий is certainly Demetrius, and VP:TNP says we translate first names where we can. —Mucius Tever 23:45, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)

text: ::::::Perhaps it is due to my and Iacobus' conservatory upbringing, but Dmitri or Dimitri is much more common. Affectionately of course, just Shosta.--Ioshus (disp) 15:52, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)

message: But the Latin alphabet doesn't contain š = [ʃ] and č = [tʃ].  IacobusAmor 13:24, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Possibly, "k" -> "c"? -- Alexander Gerascenco 13:31, 6 Martii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :In Šostakovič, duas litteras impossibiles videmus, Š et č. Recte Sostakovix? Sostacovix? Sostakovicius? Sostacovicius?

text: Litteras cum signis diacriticis in Vicipaedia Latina non solum in "Šostakovič" videmus. Vide et, e.g., Franciscus Prešeren. Latinisationem "Sostacovicius" bonam esse puto, sed nonne est regula ut nominibus familiarum (surnames) hic sine latinisationem uti?

text: Quia "Шостакович" est nomen originis Polonicae, possibile litteris Latinis modo Polonico scribendum est: "Szostakowicz". -- Alexander Gerascenco 13:46, 10 Aprilis 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :Many years ago this was a neat answer to Iacobus's point, but (a) the prehistory of the family name is not relevant by our rules, (b) we have (since Iacobus wrote the above) agreed that we will use internationally standard transliterations of non-Latin scripts, and that in pagenames we will omit diacritic marks. So this pagename should be "Demetrius Sostakovic" (the diacritics are appropriate in the lemma and in text) and I will now move and create the needed category accordingly. Anyone object? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:00, 12 Novembris 2012 (UTC)
thread_title: Š, č