Disputatio:Lingua Sinensis

message: Non simplicius Lingua Mandarinica dicatur?--173.70.154.122 00:57, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm... Cf. paginas Anglicas :en:Mandarin Chinese (Guānhuà, familia dialectorum Mandarinicarum) et :en:Standard Mandarin (Pǔtōnghuà, dialectus publica Sinarum, quae Pechinensis est).   Haec pagina per nexum intervicium nectit ad :en:Mandarin Chinese, ergo non "lingua Mandarinica" sed fortasse (si nomen 'Sinensis' removendum est) "linguae Mandarinicae".  (Sed articulum quem habemus tractat dialectum Pechinensem, itaque fortasse debet nectere ad :en:Standard Mandarin...)    —Mucius Tever 05:40, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :Est quod nescio quomodo verbum "Sinensis" adiuvat nos dicere quod dialecti Mandarinici multo inter se discrepant...Habemus quoque paginam nomine singulari lingua Sinica quae et plures dialectos continet. Quapropter conclusio tua non sequi videtur.

text: :Pro lingua normalis ("standard"), possumus habere paginam nomine lingua Mandarinica normalis. Quid sentis vel sentiunt omnes?--173.70.154.122 08:00, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Sorry for slipping into English -- I'll go back to Latin if anyone wants. Let's notice that the English page "Mandarin Chinese", although that's its title, is rather deprecating about the use of the term "Mandarin" in that sense: the page says, roughly, that most ordinary people intend "Putonghua/Standard Mandarin" when they use the term Mandarin, and only linguists use the term "Mandarin" to mean "dialects of northern and southwestern China". And, I would add, not all linguists.

text: ::As anon suggests above, I think we might use "Lingua Mandarinica" for "Standard Mandarin". [Added: I wouldn't object to adding "normalis" -- I just think it's scarcely necessary.] The point about the name "Mandarin" -- if we accept it as non-POV -- is that it associates the language with the scholars/administrators, who always focused on the standard language of Beijing. To use the term "Mandarin" for a set of regional dialects is a misnomer, really.

text: ::But we also need terms for the larger sets:

text: ::#what en:wiki currently calls "Mandarin Chinese", i.e. the set of northern and southwestern dialects and including Standard Mandarin; for this we might use Lingua Sinensis (currently a redirect)

text: ::#what en:wiki currently calls "Chinese language" (currently our Lingua Sinica), i.e. all of the above and also the southern and eastern Chinese languages or dialects. Since these are widely agreed to be languages and not dialects, we might consider moving that page to Linguae Sinicae. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:04, 1 Iulii 2010 (UTC)

message: Rajmaan (disputatio) 22:51, 26 Decembris 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Thanks, extracted to appropriate pages, therefore now hidden above. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 10:02, 31 Decembris 2012 (UTC)
thread_title:  Latin books on chinese 

message: Sicut iam supra Anglice scripsi, suadeo hanc paginam ("Lingua Mandarina") movendam ad "Lingua Sinensis" (= series dialectorum Sericae mediae et borealis quarum norma est Mandarina), deinde paginam "Lingua Mandarina normalis" ad "Lingua Mandarina" (ipsi mandarini enim lingua normali utebantur: non necesse est "normalis" adddere), deinde pagina "Lingua Sinica" ad "Linguae Sinicae" (= familia restricta quae linguas regionales Sericae austro-orientalis, una cum Sinensi et Maandarina, comprehendit). Quae nomina ad veritatem melius approximant, nisi fallor. Quid dicunt alii? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:45, 31 Ianuarii 2017 (UTC)
replies: text: Nemine contradicente, movebo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:35, 1 Augusti 2017 (UTC)
thread_title:  Rursus de nomine linguae