Disputatio:Conductor

message: The article doesn't need seven questionable lemmata in the place of the one word that most closely seems to fit the English concept of entrepreneur: negotiator (Traupman), Entrepreneurs don't necessarily hire (conducere) anybody but often seek to be hired themselves. Some undoubtedly do sign contracts, but does that make them contractors (conductores, redemptores)? In short: some rethinking needs to be done here. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 10:22, 15 Maii 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: Certe inutile est lemmata hoc modo multiplicare: tamquam encyclopaedici (non lexicographi), lemma(ta) fontesque nostris lectoribus utiliores tantum in primam sententiam ponere debemus. Sed quae lemmata? An "negotiator" optimus sit, haud scio, sed melior est quam "ergolabus" (vocabulum Codicis Iustiniani tantum; ergo in notam subiunctam demittendus) et "redemptor" (ambiguus). Inter "susceptor", "conductor", "negotiator" incertus maneo. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:57, 15 Maii 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: :Primam sententiam ad normas cogere temptavi. Cum te "negotiatorem" praefero, fontibus classicis rapidius perlectis: ergo paginam movendam proposui. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:00, 16 Maii 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Note, however, that the concepts of businessperson and entrepreneur need to be treated in separate articles. Both in Latin are best rendered as negotiator (says Traupman). The exordium of this article reads more like a definition of the former than of the latter, but the article is linked to the latter in the English wiki. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:14, 16 Maii 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: ::: Other closely related possibilities (besides ,  and ) are , ,  and . It is hard to say what Latin word suits the best. I also believe that negotiator might be a good choice, but I believe that mine is not a very well informed preference. I also think that mercator deserves a discussion (especially if we think about someone leading a societas mercatoria). Mercator is also the only lemma among the above for which “speculator” is offered as a possible translation – and that can definitely be close to many cases of modern-day enterpreneurs, or the modern concept itself. --Grufo (disputatio) 15:47, 16 Maii 2023 (UTC)

text: ::: Addition. The verb used for “investing money” was . --Grufo (disputatio) 16:08, 16 Maii 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Cassell's and Traupman agree that a merchant is a mercator, "a person who trades in commodities produced by other people" (en). Cassell's adds that a mercator is a wholesale trader, opposed to a caupo, a retailer or shopkeeper. Traupman adds that a merchant in a market is a macellarius. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:13, 16 Maii 2023 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::: But  is the word for “butcher” (or, at best, “meat seller”) – see macellum, same root of ; the word is still preserved in Italian. The idea of investing money back then was not as existential for society as it is today, but the word for “investor” was definitely locator. On a different note, I remember once I read Livy ironically commenting about how Rome frees the lands that it conquers at first, but then lets its private enterpreneurs/contractors enslave them, but I really cannot remember the passage, nor the word used for enterpreneur. I believe he was talking about the conquest of Macedonia or some other place in the Balkans. --Grufo (disputatio) 16:27, 16 Maii 2023 (UTC)
thread_title:  Lemmata