Disputatio:Prandium in herba (Manet)

message: Quamquam sur etymologice ex supra, super esse videtur, supra herbam dico potius 'au dessus de l'herbe; above the grass' significare. Affirmo in herba Latine dici, sicut Cic. de or. 1.28  ut se abiceret in herba ; 2.287  cum, ceteris se in campo exercentibus, ipse in herba recubuisset; Verg. ecl. 3.55 in molli consedimus herba; etc. Neander 12:16, 29 Iulii 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: Bene, bene ... etiam quaerere licet an sit "ientaculum" seu potius "prandium" :) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:34, 29 Iulii 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: :Profecto nescio. Ni fallor, ientaculum sole orto, prandium meridie fere sumebatur. Forsitan mulier illa adhuc tam somniculosa est, ut vestium oblita sit. :–) Neander 13:10, 29 Iulii 2011 (UTC)

message: Curiously, similar interlingual spatial confusion occurs between English and Samoan. For example, the children's song "Little birdie in a tree" becomes "Si manu laitiiti [sa] i luga o le laau," which, putting our literal blinders on, we could translate back into English as "Little birdie [that was] above a tree," et Samoani quidem pueri Linguam Anglicam non pernoscentes carmen convertunt ad "Little birdie's on a tree." Aves Samoanae in arboribus non sedent: supra eas sedent. Simile, homines possunt siva i luga o le mutia 'saltare supra herbam', ut grex Polynesius pro Praeside Obama saltavit (Fa’alauiloa Samoa i luma o Obama). IacobusAmor 13:50, 29 Iulii 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: The equivalent of "supra herbam" works OK in Italian, too: see Una candida cerva sopra l'erba. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:10, 29 Iulii 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: : Facetum'st, Iacobe! Profecto linguae inter se differunt, quomodo relationes spatiales percipiant et significent. Itaque scire velim, an Samoani eádem paepositione — q.e. i luga o le ? (praepositio multiplex [?]) — usi
replies: text: :: (a) 'the bird was sitting on a branch of the tree' / 'avis in ramo arboris sedebat'

text: :: (b) 'the bird was sitting in the tree' / 'avis in arbore sedebat'

text: : dicant. Neander 18:36, 29 Iulii 2011 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Tuum (a) = Sa nofo le manu i luga o le lala o le laau et Sa nofo le manu i luga o le lalaau 'the bird was sitting on [=above] a branch of the tree'. (This is conventional orthography, omitting macrons & glottal stops.) This i seems to be a preposition for 'in, on, at'. The usual interpretation is that luga is a locative base, meaning 'over', etc. And in case you're wondering whether the idea of 'sit' always requires the i luga o construction, the answer is no; see e le nofo foi i le nofoa o e tauemu 'nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful' (Psalms 1:1, KJV). Perhaps the closest & best English gloss for i luga o here is 'upon', a preposition that seems to be getting rare these days, being replaced in most contexts by (the less precise?) 'on'. ¶ Regarding your (b): to emphasize the insideness of something, you may use the phrase i totonu o 'in/at the insides of' (again with a locative base), but the legality of Sa nofo le manu i totonu o le laau 'The bird was sitting in(side) the tree' is questionable. One wonders whether that wouldn't mean that the bird is underneath the bark! It might be pertinent for birds that nest inside the trunks of trees, but then ogalaau, the word for 'treetrunk', might be obligatory. You'd have to ask a native speaker. IacobusAmor 14:27, 30 Iulii 2011 (UTC)
thread_title: ''Supra herbam'' et Lingua Samoana