Disputatio:Lingua Maoriana

message: What is Latin for the Maori people (as distinct from the language, which this article covers)? If some kind soul can edit the article to insert the word in link form, I can turn it into a stub with links to several other Wikipedias. Robin Patterson 09:41 mai 1, 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Honestly I have no idea where we got Mauris in the first place, and it sounds susiciously unlike the names of most other languages in Latin: they're usually based off a 1st/2nd declension adjective that can easily be made into an adverb for constructions like latine loqor. Given the form Mauris, what are we going to say, Mauriter loquor? Furthermore it looks a bit too much like Mauri "Moors", a totally unrelated people. --Iustinus 17:32 mai 1, 2004 (UTC)

text: I know it's been a while since we discussed this, but I just did a little looking into the topic. Before the mid-nineteenth century the people were refered to as "New Zealanders," and this is reflected in the scientific classification of the Maori bug, Platyzosteria novaeseelandiae (also spelled novaezelandiae). Seeing this, it occured to me that there is probably a biological Latin form already in use. Sure enough, a quick Google search on "maoricus" or "maorica" shows that this is the form we want. I still don't know what the people themselves are called, but in a pinch it should be safe to use this adjective substantivally. --Iustinus 08:57 iun 11, 2004 (UTC)

text: Maori means "ordinary" in the Maori language. Also, Maori sometimes call themselves tangata whenua (people of the land) .. populus terrae?--Weldingfish 07:18, 16 Novembris 2005 (UTC)

message: Some kind soul may be willing to translate the above and the dates (26 July to 1 August 2004) into Latin so as to add a paragraph to the article. Salvete! Robin Patterson 20:04 iul 25, 2004 (UTC)
Sorry Robin, what exactly did you want translated? Maori Language Week and july 16- august 1 2004? OK, maybe "Septimana Linguae Maoricae Dicata"? You can drop the word dicata if you need something shorter... also you have a choice between septimana and hebdomas. --Iustinus 03:18 iul 26, 2004 (UTC)
thread_title:  Māori Language Week - te wiki o te reo Māori 

message: Maurica is utterly wrong: vowels are generally significant and stable in Polynesian languages, and the correct vowel here is /o/, not /u/. IacobusAmor 17:37, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Lingua "Maurica" (horresco)

message: In linguistics, modern reflexes of the -icus suffix imply higher-order groupings, so it might be best to use -anus for individual languages. Thus, we'd have Lingua Maoriana here, and we'd save Linguae Maoricae for the group consisting of that language plus the language possibly called Lingua Chathamensis (Moriori, the indigenous language of the Chatham Islands, now extinct, but probably a close relative of the Maori dialects). Likewise, certain other Polynesian subgroupings; compare Lingua Samoana 'Samoan' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoan_language) and Linguae Samoicae 'the Samoic languages' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoic_languages). ¶ Along these lines, other Polynesian languages include the linguae Anutana, Futunana, Havaiana, Mangaiana, Manihikiana, Marquesana, Rotumana, Samoana, Tahitiana, Tikopiana, Tokelauana, Tongana, Tuvaluana, Uveana, etc. IacobusAmor 17:37, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: 'As you know I'm a bit busy right now, but ne multis: I'm not sure we can automatically apply that rule to Latin. When it comes to the connotations of different adjectival suffixes, English and Latin are often at odds with each other.  --Iustinus 18:52, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :Yes, but since linguists distinguish between, say, Futunan & Futunic, it's desirable, and I daresay mandatory, that we find & maintain a similar distinction in Latin; and since -anus and -icus are at hand, there's no good reason why we shouldn't use them to make Futunanus 'Futunan' and Futunicus 'Futunic'. Thus also Samoanus 'Samoan' and Samoicus 'Samoic'. Even the etymologies of the English words cry out for those patterns. IacobusAmor 19:37, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Off the top of my head, it may work to do it this way: -ic > -ica, but -an > -ia and other similar suffixes. E.g. I've always thought Samous -a -um was a logical form. But we'd have to think this through a little more I think. --Iustinus 20:13, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::The well-established biological adjective is Samoensis. Both terms obliterate the final a. If we want to do as little damage to indigenous phonology as possible, we should preserve Austronesian final vowels, since they're usually parts of morphemes, not suffixes. Samoa, for example, breaks down (as least in the most popular etymologies) as sa + moa, whereas Samous and Samoensis pretend that the word is really Samo plus a suffix -a. I suspect that, to an Oceanic ear, Samoanus, because it preserves that moa intact would be a less gut-wrenching sound than Samous. In fact, there's actually a Samoan word Samoana, but it breaks down as Samoa + -na, not as Samo + -ana. IacobusAmor 21:20, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Samoana as Latin would break down the same way, I understand.  The -na in -āna is the same as the -na in, for example, -īna as in canina = cani- + -na (PIE *-no-).  The original use attaches it to a stem vowel; wider use would be  by analogy. —Mucius Tever 01:18, 26 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

text: As for as "Polynesian," here we can actually resort to classical grammar, because the word is of Greek origin.

text: * Chersonesus > Chersonensis [sic]

text: * Peloponesus > Peloponnesius, Peloponnesiacus, Peloponnensis [sic]

text: To my mind Polynesius seems best. --Iustinus 18:56, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::On the same grounds, for Indonesian I've been using Indonesius on la.wikt.  —Mucius Tever 01:18, 26 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

text: :Excellent! I'll fix the prior attempts. Spanish polinésico would seem to imply Latin Polynesicus, but the Greeks had the idea first. IacobusAmor 19:37, 23 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Conclusion ...? I have just added a language box. It will adopt the name of the page, so if anyone wants to move the article, go right ahead! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 20:15, 12 Decembris 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::The problem here is that linguists often use the -ic- infix for higher-order languages than those spoken at the present day. NZ Maori (Latine Maoriana) and Moriori (Morioriana) may be Maoric languages (linguae Maoricae), so calling one of them Maorica would throw a spanner into the gears. Modern Samoan (Samoana) and modern Futunan (Futunana) are Samoic languages (linguae Samoicae). There's a great deal to be said for consistency in nomenclature; that's why scientific taxonomy is so relentless about its suffixes, -eae and -idae marking families, and so on; and it's why, back in June (above), I wrote: "Along these lines, other Polynesian languages include the linguae Anutana, Futunana, Havaiana, Mangaiana, Manihikiana, Marquesana, Rotumana, Samoana, Tahitiana, Tikopiana, Tokelauana, Tongana, Tuvaluana, Uveana, etc." IacobusAmor 22:14, 12 Decembris 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Maorica ~ Maoriana?

message: Plenty of Classical Latin proper nouns produce more than one adjectival form. So, at least for the Pacific, how about this rule? General adjectives are whatever they are (e.g., insulae Polynesiae), but adjectives pertaining to modern languages end in -ana (e.g., Indonesiana, Tahitiana). IacobusAmor 22:32, 12 Decembris 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: After 13 years, I'm the first to respond! Yes, it's fine as long as it agrees with sources. We don't invent adjectives, but if the adjectives exist, with an appropriate meaning, we should surely use them.

text: Hence, without comment, I moved this page, way back then, in accordance with your suggestion. I've only just now moved the related category :Categoria:Maoriani. Why I didn't do that earlier I have no idea. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:08, 11 Aprilis 2020 (UTC)
thread_title: ''-ana'' (Polynesiana), ''-ia'' (Polynesia), ''-ica'' (Polynesica)