Disputatio:Violinista

message: As far as I know, '-ist' in Latin is always first declension. It's also strange that the word we should use for the player differs from that we use for the instrument; one or the other must be changed. Pantocrator 20:52, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Is it really that strange? We commonly in English (your favorite language and model of all foreign languages) refer to "the first violin".

text: That being said, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

text: --Ioscius  ∞ 20:56, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :Credo eum non malle violinistam cum instrumentum appellatur fidiculae; aptius fuerat fidiculista si instrumentum sic appelletur; aut aptius instrumentum violinum appelletur..--24.107.235.195 21:40, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Ita, num legisti subter vel vidisti litteras caesas? --Ioscius  ∞ 21:43, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

text: Aha, I got it now. You don't like fidiculista? --Ioscius  ∞ 21:34, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: : In any case, "violinistus" looks awkward, and it can't be right. Does it occur in some respectable neolatin text? Respectable lexical sources (Egger's Neues Latein-Lexicon/Lexicon recentis Latinitatis; and Pekkanen, Tuomo & Pitkäranta, Reijo, Lexicon hodiernae Latinitatis Finno-Latino-Finnicum [2006]) give violinista, -ae. --Neander 21:27, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Sine dubio, Neander, huic consentior. Numquam vidi violinistus neque volo. Male ante legi PCis querellam.--Ioscius  ∞ 21:34, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

text: :Neander, quid dat Egger pro violin (instrumentum)?--24.107.235.195 21:29, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :: Fidicula violina (sub verbo "Geige"). (Pitkäranta violinam praebet.) --Neander 21:51, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Itaque non est logica (vel convenientia) quae nos requirat paginam instrumenti (nunc fidiculae appellatam) ad nomen Fidicula violina seu violina movere?--24.107.235.195 22:37, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::: Equidem violinam praetulerim, nam fidiculas puto nimis ambiguas esse. --Neander 23:05, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::Si fidicula est idem atque Anglicum fiddle, violina non est fidicula: violinam esse genus fidiculae adseverat Wikipedia: "Any bowed string musical instrument may be informally called a fiddle, regardless of the kind of music being played with it." IacobusAmor 00:46, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::: Ita vero. --Neander 01:09, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)

message: Quor "canit"?  Quidni "sonat"?  Solite, "canere" implicat "cantare" (voces). LionhardusCiampa 23:14, 11 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Aliter ac verbum Italianum suonare, Latinum sonare non est verbum transitivum; id est: in structura "X sonat", X = fons soni (hirundo, homo, lyra, mare, populus, tuba, tympanum, vesica displosa, vox); poetice interdum (raro) transitive construitur: Pythius ... carmina  ... sonat (Propertius); te carmina nostra sonabunt (=laudabunt; Ovidius). Cum autem instrumento quodam musico utimur, tibiis canere dicimus et item cithará, fidibus, harundine, lituo, tubá, etc canimus, numquam sonamus. Itaque, cum tubá canimus, tuba sonat. --Neander 01:05, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :Nonne enim facere sonare clarior, e.g. Violinista violinam sonare facit? Pantocrator 10:02, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Quomodo clarius? Grammatice potis est, sicut in lingua Anglica, sed est tam insolitum quam in lingua Anglica ("A violinist causes a violin to play.") Etsi legimus Americani "violinist canit violina" sicut "a violinist plays the violinist", fortasse potius Latina sententia legi potes "a violinist makes music by means of a violin".

text: ::Googles ope explorando inveni
replies: text: :::Libitina falce sava

text: :::matrem Christophorum ferox peremit,

text: :::pessum gaudia datque cuncta, et ades

text: :::maesto dira facit sonare planctu,

text: :::et risum in lacrimas repente vertit,

text: :::cupressuque fores inumbrat atra.

text: ::et
replies: text: :::et habet sicut dicitur de capicertiis, et habet custodiam turrium, et facit sonare, exceptis Classicis processionum Dominice, . . .

text: ::et
replies: text: :::sonitus facit ingentes

text: ::et
replies: text: :::In hoc resíbili spectáculo estabant, quando pervenit ad ventam quidam castrator puercorum et statim fecit sonare chiflum cañarum, quatuor aut quinque vices . . . (Don Quixote)

text: ::et
replies: text: :::rexit amicus veritatis et suam fecit sonare tubam ut durmientes a sonano excitare

text: ::et
replies: text: :::fecit sonare tubam ut dormientes a somno monibus vel in distinguendo propositiones excitaret

text: ::Horum exemplorum nihil significat "play music" sed omnia "sound a horn", "sound a lament", "make a noise", etc.

text: ::--Ioscius  ∞ 11:22, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Are these all mediaevalisms? The classical idiom in prose seems to be facit ut sonet. IacobusAmor 12:04, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Sunt omnia, ita. --Ioscius  ∞ 12:32, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::Verbum "psallere" etiam adhiberi potest cum de instrumentis chordatis agitur. Velut canere, hoc verbum intransitivum est et ideo cum casu ablativo utendum est. "Violiná psallo",Tergum violinae 15:11, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::: Psallere certe verbum iustum est ad pulsús lyrae, citharae, psalterii [sic!], sambucae etc describendos -- et, sine dubio, cum violiná canimus ad modum "pizzicato". Equidem tandem potius violiná canere dixerim generaliore verbo usus. --Neander 20:03, 12 Aprilis 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Canere vs. sonare