Disputatio:Mythistoria de inceptis audacibus

message: Looking at the interwiki, we should probably find a Latin translation for this; but I don't know how to say adventure in Latin. Mattie 17:42, 4 Februarii 2012 (UTC)
replies: text: Cassell's dicit sub "adventure": "daring deed, facinus, audax inceptum"'; "an unusual occurrence, res nova or mira". Fortasse "litterae de facinoribus, vel de audacibus inceptis, vel de rebus gestis? Lesgles (disputatio) 18:30, 3 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: :The first one sounds like literature pertaining to crime, and the last like historical fiction; so out of those, I would vote for "de audacibus inceptis." Though you'd need a verb with that prepositional phrase, so "Litterae de inceptis audacibus tractantes" or something similar. Mattie (disputatio) 19:10, 3 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Good points all. Your last point sent me off on a search ending with this interesting article, according to which these "adnominal prepositional phrases" might not be so bad after all, though not as common as in English, but at any rate I think that in this article title, unless someone comes along with a better idea, the full form is right. Lesgles (disputatio) 04:50, 4 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: :::I stand corrected - gratias tibi ago! Let's wait and see if others have input. Mattie (disputatio) 15:58, 4 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::In my idiolect, "Adventure" tout court was an error: to me the adventure is the res gesta, not the book about it. Hence (agreeing with me, I guess) en:Adventure fiction, fr:Roman d'aventures. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:17, 5 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::D'où la discussion que j'ai commencée dès avoir créé la page. :-) Mattie (disputatio) 20:35, 5 Iulii 2014 (UTC)

text: ::::In my Latin idiolect, you don't often end a sentence with a prepositional phrase, but you might end a title with one: a title is not a sentence. "Ab urbe condita" is a pretty good title on its own, although more homely when surrounded by other words "T. Livii ab urbe condita libri", and you wouldn't put it at the end of a sentence.

text: ::::We have had a long uncertainty about how to name battles and treaties in titles. Currently, if they contain prepositional phrases, we often round them off with a participle. I used to think this was preferable, but I now think maybe, in titles, it's not necessary.

text: ::::On this subject, then, "Litterae de audacibus inceptis" seems to me acceptable as a title, though if others prefer to add another word that's fine by me! Note, though, that it doesn't embody the notion of fiction: as phrased, it includes what they call "true adventure". Perhaps that isn't a problem. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 09:17, 5 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::: Andrew puts it very nicely when he says that a title is not a sentence. Adnominal prepositional phrases (APP's) like commentarii de bello Gallico, Ulixes in rate, proelium ad Phliuntem (&c) are good titles and captions but in prose text, when using APP's, you must be on the alert for ambiguities (to say the least). Wharton's paper (referred to by Lesgles) is a very nice piece of work, but it does not give you allowance to wield phrases such as "e proelio apud Mutinam contra Boios victor abiit" instead of "e proelio apud Mutinam contra Boios facto victor abiit." ¶ Adventure may be a hard nut to crack. Inceptum audax 'a bold|hazardous|rash undertaking' (Liv. 10.32.5 & 26.38.11) is but one aspect of what adventure is all about. Life as a great adventure is obvioulsly something more than just a bold undertaking. According to German wiki, Abenteuer comes from Latin "adventura: „Ereignis“, but *adventura is a reconstructed word. If we shun such a theoretically possible word form with (& on the grounds that it has) a non-compositional meaning, or dislike borrowing a Latin-tailored word such as aventura from Romance thesaurus, then we must acquiesce in selecting an expression (inceptum audax, res mira, periculum, eventus anceps, casus mirabilis &c) that appears to fit a given context. ¶ As to litterae de inceptis audacibus, my first reading was 'a letter concerning, well, adventures' but then it dawned upon me that the correct reading must be 'literature'. Instead of litterae, maybe mythistoria? Neander (disputatio) 08:58, 6 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::Mythistoria periculorum? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 11:15, 6 Iulii 2014 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::I moved it to mythistoria de inceptis audacibus and added Iacobus's idea as an alternative. If anyone thinks of something better, please move it again! Lesgles (disputatio) 18:30, 5 Novembris 2014 (UTC)
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