Disputatio:Paeninsula Capitis Eboraci

message: Eboracensis? Harrissimo.
replies: text: Promunturii Eboracensis?--Xaverius 11:19, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :Si species biologicas huius regionis percurris, saepe adiectivum "Yorkensis -e" reperis. Nomen promunturii "Caput York" in descriptionibus eorundem specierum interdum videbis. Nomen paeninsulae omnis Latinum, fonte usque adhuc non reperto, "paeninsula Yorkensis" ad interim propono. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:50, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:50, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Tum, nemine contradicente, fortasse licet nobis paginam ad Paeninsula Yorkensis movere?--Xaverius 15:48, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Vel Paeninsula Eboracensis? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:30, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC) ← Overruled by a later comment below.

message: We're talking about the "peninsula of Cape York" here, the one in northern Australia, not the "peninsula of York"—and our peninsula here isn't to be confused with the Yorke Peninsula, the one in South Australia. Some species bearing the epithet yorkensis plainly come from Cape Yorke (with an E); do any from Cape York (without an E)? Certainly Caput York (for the cape lacking an E) is in use, but is it better than Caput eboracense? In any case, three words are desirable: one for the cape, one for the York, and one for the peninsula. So should it be Paeninsula Capitis Eboraci or Paeninsula Capitis Eboracensis? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 16:49, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :To make matters worse, the York in Cape York Peninsula sometimes used to be spelled Yorke. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:19, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)

text: Neither of those, I would say, unless some name related to "Eboracum" has been used in reliably published sources to denote the cape or peninsula.

text: #If it has, "Caput Eboracense" (vel sim.) comes into play and we are likely to prefer it.

text: #If it hasn't, "Caput York", even if distressing for a Latinist, is better for us as a basis to work from, because we have to work from reliable sources.

text: OK, now, if the name "Caput York" is the best we can find in reliably published sources for the Cape ... well "Yorkensis -e" has certainly been used in reliably published sources as an adjective to name some species that are native not only to the Cape sensu stricto but to the region, i.e. the peninsula. On that basis, I said to myself, "Yorkensis" is a Latin adjective for the region or peninsula (which is named in English after the cape), and we could call the peninsula "paeninsula Yorkensis" until some better name can be devised or is shown to exist. That's as far as my ratiocination took me :)

text: The evidence I found includes

text: #"A new species, Aulacocyclus yorkensis sp. nov., is described from Cape York Peninsula, Australia" on this page -- showing that "yorkensis" is an adjective denoting the peninsula

text: #" ins. Freti Torresi (Macgillivray)/ Nova Hollandia septentrionali, ad Caput York" and "in Nova Hollandia, ad Caput York" both found on this page (search the page for "Caput York") -- showing that "Caput York" is a Latin name of this Cape York. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:49, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :::For the record: this one and this one refer to the other cape (Yorke with an E), and this one and this one refer to another continent altogether. Hooray for polysemy? IacobusAmor (disputatio) 19:09, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::No dispute! And I take the point that a three-word name would be closer to the English, therefore more recognisable. My desire for brevity sometimes betrays me. Unless/until "Eboracensis" can be sourced in this context, would "Paeninsula Capitis Yorkensis" be preferable to "Paeninsula Yorkensis"? There is, touch wood, no other "Cape York(e) Peninsula". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:30, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::To make the story more complete, let's add that Greenland has a Cape York Peninsula, and South Africa has an apparently conflagration-prone building named Cape York. Also, for the record, we have the adjective capensis. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 20:28, 1 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::And there I was thinking that the problem was "caput" for "promunturium". It seems we will need a Promunturium Yorkense (discretiva) to sort out all the various cape Yorks, with a link to the Paeninsula Capitis Yorkensis (the name which seems to have more substantial evidence than anything with an "ebracum" component)?--Xaverius 08:02, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::Other wikis, though not English yet, have a short separate article for Cape York (Australia) (I mean, separate from their longer articles about the peninsula). I think I 'll write one here to match. The Cape York (Greenland) that Iacobus points out, and that I had never heard of, is really important too. I came to Vicipaedia to learn, and I'm still doing it ... Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 08:12, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::Feel free to write away! That's smart of those other wikis, because a cape, being a headland (see that head there, Javi? hence caput) may typically involve some sort of promontory, though not necessarily a peninsula. Perhaps a cape is best considered to be only so much land as can be seen by sailors at sea, whereas a peninsula is a more-land-based idea. Certainly a peninsula can be much larger than a cape. Most of the state of Florida, for example, is a peninsula (in relation to the rest of North America), but the land that's accounted part of its Cape Canaveral has less than 1 percent of its area. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:19, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::::::I imagined that it came from caput, but was always worried that the Spanish equivalent (cabo) derived from later use rather than earlier, Classical standard (as in equus/caballus and "caballo").--Xaverius 13:19, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::::::::It isn't really a classical usage, although it might have been quite easily understood as a metaphor: Vergil uses "caput" for the summit of a mountain. Yes, it's found in names of promontories in several languages including medieval Latin, cf. Cap Ferrat, Beachy Head. "The day we went to Birmingham by way of Beachy Head". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 15:13, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::::On the size of peninsulas vs. that of capes, note the Peninsular War, where the peninsula in question was all of Iberia. (This name could surprise our Spanish-speaking friends, who may know that conflict as the Guerra de la Independencia Española.) As with Cape Canaveral and Florida, compare the size of Cabo da Roca with that of Iberia as a whole. ¶ Indeed, one might ask whether a cape has any land area at all—whether it might best be considered merely an inflexion point between land & sea. ¶ Matutinal maunderings, waiting for coffee. :) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 12:31, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::::I think the parallel with Florida is good. Cape York Peninsula is a considerable fraction of Queensland and an ecological region, while Cape York stricto sensu is a major landmark, continental Australia's furthest north. I find it surprising that en:wiki hasn't yet got a separate article on the latter.
replies: text: :::::::::::And its  own map shows the cape to be almost invisibly tiny, and certainly distinct from the peninsula. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:57, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)

text: ::::::::::While looking in vain for a Latin mention of Cape York (Greenland), I came across the species :nl:Metapenaeus eboracensis "York prawn" native to Cape York Peninsula (Australia) -- and evidently named after it. Ho! "Eboracensis" becomes defensible in reference to Cape York! Discussion above becomes academic! Don't let the coffee go cold.

text: ::::::::::The unlucky creatures "may offer some prospect for commercial fishing development in the Gulf of Carpentaria" when we have eaten all the other seafood in the world. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:48, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: :::::::::::So does that get us to Paeninsula Capitis Eboracensis? Hooray for the onomatologically indispensable prawn! ¶ Now that coffee is being had, it comes to mind that the world also has the Duke of York Islands in Papua Nova Guinea, the Duke of York Archipelago in Canada, Duke of York Island in Chile, and  Duke of York Island in Antarctica. And Mars, not to be outdone, has its own Cape York. Have any of the dukes of York ever visited any of these locations? I think we can rule out Mars. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:50, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::::::::Paeninsula Capitis Eboracensis for the win -- but then, we might also want to push forward York Ham (Perna Eboracensis)?--Xaverius 13:55, 2 Maii 2019 (UTC)
thread_title: Nomen rectum