lflage/wiki-talks huggingface dataset:
Disputatio:Quebecum urbs

message: Haec urbs Latine « Stenopolis » nominatur.

message: Hic inveni Quebec, ville de capitale de Canada: Kebeccum, -i, n. pagina 841.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/CadresFenetre?O=NUMM-29490&M=imageseule
Alex1011 23:50, 3 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kebeccum, -i, n 

message: Stenopolis inveni machinis exploratoriis sed solum ut nomen cuiusdam hominis cuiusdam fabaluae. Nexum inter Quebec et Stenopolis non inveni. Alex1011 11:08, 5 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
adhuc duplicavi a Quebecum: 
replies: text: :Vagens a colloquio sum. Urbs Qubeci, quae caput provinciae est, aut Stenopolis aut Canadensis Lycopolis a Smith in eius dictionario nominatur. Seriously, I couldn't make that up. Smith's English-Latin Dictionary says that. Sinister Petrus 02:01, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
Alex1011 16:19, 17 Iulii 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: :In conventiculo Lexintoniensi, quidam particeps mihi hanc dixit: "Sine dubio, Stenopolis urbs Quebeci est." Etiam idem dixit: "Marianopolis est melior quam Mons Regium." Ut dixerit. Sinister Petrus 18:37, 26 Iulii 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ::The Indian word Quebec means "where the river narrows", which is in Graeco-Latin "Stenopolis". --Alex1011 13:43, 15 Maii 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Stenopolis 

message: Bene: "Urbs Quebeci" multo melior est ac "Urbs Quebecis". Sed forma non apparet in pagina. Habemus fontem pro "Urbs Quebeci"? (I know Americans call it "Quebec City", but we're not talking American here.) Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:31, 10 Maii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Hmm, well apparently the official names of the city are "Ville de Québec" and "Quebec City," so I guess you were using "Americans" in the sense of "inhabitants of North and South America"?

text: But more importantly, yes this name is still awful. We do have some genuine attestations, if not ideal ones. I think we need to switch to those forms.

text: --Iustinus 17:45, 17 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: :Si nomen rectum est Quebecum, phrasis Urbs Quebeci Anglice = 'Quebec's city', non? Confer Urbs Novum Eboracum (non Urbs Novi Eboraci). IacobusAmor 18:08, 17 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Nescio utrum "Urbs Novum Eboracum" locutio fixa sit, sed "Urbs" quidem "Roma" saepissime videtur. Recte igitur mones. --Iustinus 18:19, 17 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
OK, I've added all the names discussed here. I guess now the page should be moved. Quebecum (urbs) or Quebecum urbs is probably best (the latter as established above by parallels like "Urbs Roma," but putting urbs at the end for easier alphabetizing, and because it is the less imporant element). --Iustinus 19:23, 17 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Nomen
Disputatio:Quebecum

message: Haec provincia Latine « Quebecum » nominatur.

message: Hic inveni Quebec, ville de capitale de Canada: Kebeccum, -i, n. pagina 841.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/CadresFenetre?O=NUMM-29490&M=imageseule
Alex1011 23:50, 3 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: Quebecum et Kebeccum ambo vidi. Ipse praeferro primam, consentio, Quebec non placet.--Ioshus Rocchio 20:58, 4 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: :Vagens a colloquio sum. Urbs Qubeci, quae caput provinciae est, aut Stenopolis aut Canadensis Lycopolis a Smith in eius dictionario nominatur. Seriously, I couldn't make that up. Smith's English-Latin Dictionary says that. Sinister Petrus 02:01, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ::The Indian word Quebec means "where the river narrows", which is in Graeco-Latin "Stenopolis". --Alex1011 13:43, 15 Maii 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Kebeccum, -i, n
Disputatio Vicipaediae:Glossarium astronomicum

message: I propose that the mot juste here is not dictionarium but rather glossarium. --Iustinus 17:22 sep 22, 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Good idea.  —Myces Tiberinus 18:40 sep 22, 2004 (UTC)
CalRis25 06:15 sep 23, 2004 (UTC): You're right. I looked it up, and "Lewis" says:

text: glossarium , ii, n. [glossa] , a vocabulary or glossary of antiquated or foreign words that need explanation.
Thank you for the hint.

message: 'Pulsella makes sense, based on the etymology (pulsar being from pulse+star), but really Pulsar -is n. makes a hell of a lot of sense in Latin, and honestly it sounds better to me. What do others think? --Iustinus 20:45, 28 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: I like pulsar-is, f. Like you said it's a pulsella, so the gender would seem feminine to me.Or as a substantive Stella Pulsar/Stellae Pulsaris.--Ioshus (disp) 20:52, 28 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: :All common nouns in -ar -aris are neuter. For it to be feminine it would have to be Pulsaris. But I don't see why it has to be feminine. Hmm... and coome to think of it, doesn't Pulsar actially come from "pulsating stellar object"? If so, then -ar makes even more sense. --Iustinus 21:01, 28 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: ::If it comes from object, certainly neuter. I'm fine either way, but definitely agree it's better than pulsella.--Ioshus (disp) 21:09, 28 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
Deliberans de ea re nunc et mihi pulsar (neutrius generis) melius videtur. Imprimis cum in linguis Romanis etiam verbo pulsar seu púlsar utitur. usor:Bohmhammel, 21.27 h, a. d. 3. Kal. Ian., 2006.

text: (Pulsus/)Pulsarius praefero, in analogia cum verbis sagitta/sagittarius. Rursus 10:50, 30 Octobris 2008 (UTC)
thread_title:  Pulsar
Disputatio:Benitus Mussolini

message: When I visited Italy in the mid-90s, I came accross a Latin inscription that mentioned Mussolini by name. Unfortunately I can't for the life of me remember what form it took, or even where the text was located. I'll have to track that down somehow. Iustinus 00:28 sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Quisdam in Sicilia dixit Benedictus Mussolini. Alex1011 12:11, 25 Septembris 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: :Ita vero: nomen Italianum "Benito" appropriatum est e linga Hispanica. Ortum est e nomine Latino "Benedictus". Vide paginam Italianam Benito. --Fabullus 21:02, 1 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Ita, profecto... sed hoc non aenigma est... si Iustinus mentionem fecit fortasse indicavit eum Latinizationem nominis Mussolini vidisse?  —Mucius Tever 12:42, 2 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :::I would have preferred Benedictus, but I have found an attestation for Benitus. It's in the title of a series of classical texts published in the 1930s: "Scriptores Graeci et Latini iussu Beniti Mussolini consilio R. Academia Lynceorum editi". My copy is dated MDCCCCXXXVIII or, alternatively, XVI a fasc. restit. Beniti has to be the genitive of Benitus. Unfortunately this doesn't tell us whether he answered (in Latin) to Mussolinus or Mussolini. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 14:54, 2 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::from my point of view the only possible choice is Benito, because his father choose the name in honour of :es:Benito Juarez, a mexican patriot. In any case his father (a known anticlerical as Benito himself until he came to power) would have given his son the name Benedictus. --Massimo Macconi 17:28, 2 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

text: :::It's turned out well, then! I have added the attestation as a footnote. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 19:15, 3 Iunii 2007 (UTC)

text: ::There's also the sorce already quoted on the page under the heading Inscriptio Fontis Monumentalis Brundisiani. Luckily Andrew's book series, and the Brundisi fountain are in agreement here: Benitus Mussolini, last name does not decline. I I never did track down the inscription I saw in Italy, but then I have nothing to go on. --Iustinus 19:30, 3 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
It must be in latin Benitus Mussolinus [Scripsit 62.65.219.226, usor sine nomine]

text: Erras. Vide disputationem supra; vide et illustrationem columnae in pagina ipsa, "MVSSOLINI DUX". Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:03, 30 Iunii 2010 (UTC)
thread_title: Nomen Latinum

message: :Your post is copyright violation. Its from . ---Redattore 19:57, 22 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)
replies: text: : It's cross-project spam. 80.42.214.180 08:24, 26 Aprilis 2006 (UTC)
thread_title: spam removed
Disputatio Formulae:Vide discretivam

message: Cf. Template:Discretiva. The page you have written here is not for exactly the same purpose, so I haven't deleted it outright. However, I'm a bit unsure about what exactly is going on here, so I haven't tried to edit it yet. --Iustinus 23:44 sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Ahh, okay - didn't know about that page. I created this after seeing that Europa had this line across the top and thought I should generalise it. It does serve a different purpose (this page goes on Europa for example, whereas  would go on Europa (disambiguatio)). I would hope this template can be used on all pages that would normally put such a line at the top, for consistency and ease of correction. Nicolaus 12:53 sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

message: I put <noinclude> tags on the category; otherwise all articles tagged with this will be marked as disambiguation pages.  If that was the intent, I apologise; you can put it back. --Alynna Kasmira 17:58, 7 Decembris 2005 (UTC)
thread_title:  noinclude 

message: I added a grey background to match the other similar formulae. If this isn't liked, please revert! Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 16:42, 9 Novembris 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Format

message: There is problem with name of this template. Bots recognize  now page wit that as disambiguation, because of it's name in all languages. I suggest to rename to e.g.  and replace it in all articles with new name. JAn Dudík 13:11, 13 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes, this has caused confusion more than once already. I have moved it now: if others agree with this move, we will also ask a bot to edit the relevant pages. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:19, 13 Octobris 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Name
Disputatio:Numeri Romani

message: CalRis25 10:47 oct 1, 2004 (UTC): There's already an article covering Roman numerals. For some reasons, however, that article has the name Numerus which is misleading because it merely covers Roman numerals. In order to reflect the article naming system used by en.Wikipedia, shouldn't we move the content of Numerus here? In that case Numerus probably should be removed or be earmarked for the content .en:Numeral_system has right now, or perhaps that of en:Number. What do you think?
I think this is a good idea. There should be an article Numerus, but it should cover numbers in general, not only roman numerics.

message: I would like to know how Romans used to write the numbers between 0 and 1, decimal numbers.
In the page fr:Unité de mesure romaine, we can read a text, the Gromatici veteres and at the 8th line of this text, we can read that Cubitus habet pedem Iς what is translated in french La coudée compte 1 pied et demi (there is one foot and a half in a coudée). could we suppose that they wrote 1/2 with the symbol "ς"? what about other decimal numbers? -- Thoma D. 08:43, 21 Augusti 2007 (UTC)
That sign is a kind of abbreviation for "semi". 
There is a quite good explanation for numbers between 0 und 1 in the english as well as in some other wikipedias.
thread_title:  between 0 and 1
Disputatio:Augustus

message: Apparently Olivine, the kind of stone that Peridot is made from, is also called [in English, anyway] chrysolite = la: chrysolithos, from grc: χρυσόλιθος, both of which however my dictionaries gloss as "topaz".   If anyone has a better word for "peridot"...  I don't know if "olivinus" could stand?  —Myces Tiberinus 21:36 oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
thread_title: Chrysolithus
Disputatio:Hannibal

message: Salve amici,
hic unum forum est in qui quaeres...
replies: text: Quid ais?? --Iustinus 15:33 oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

message: Sapiens23, qui fuerunt hi homines "Romae" appellati, de quibus scripsisti? De Romanis saepe legimus, numquam alibi de Romis. IacobusAmor 16:35, 1 Augusti 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: "Odium patris erga Romas Romanosque"

message: ... Punico:  ...: ita fortasse, sed quo fonte? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:38, 13 Ianuarii 2016 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomen
Disputatio:Testes Iehovae

message: Potes dicere “homonymia inconveniens”?  —Myces Tiberinus 20:59 oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: Nemo poterit quaestionem tuam respondere, quin prius rite explices de qua re agere velis. -- Romanus Felix
thread_title:  Homonymia inconveniens 

message: Myces noster recte monuit, sed verba haud possumus mutare! Propheta Isaias (versione Vulgata) dixit "Vos testes mei, dicit Dominus" (Isaias 43/44.10). Nomen Anglicum ex eodem versu deprehenditur. NB: Attestationes paucae orthographiae Latinae "Testes Iehova" (sine "h" finali) apud Google reperio ... id quod nihil adiuvat. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:47, 17 Novembris 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: In hac commentatione certaminis Vaticani "Iehovae testibus" reperio. Lesgles (disputatio) 09:58, 18 Novembris 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: :Id nomen praefero quia structuram suam (nom. + gen.) aperte monstrat. An alii consentiunt? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:39, 18 Novembris 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Cum summo studio consentimus! (We most heartily agree!) IacobusAmor (disputatio) 13:10, 18 Novembris 2016 (UTC)
replies: text: :::"Testes Iehovae" est posita in grammatica. Mendelo (disputatio) 19:58, 18 Novembris 2016 (UTC)
thread_title: Orthographia et grammatica

message: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/war-of-words-breaks-out-among-jehovahs-witnesses-2361448.html –46.114.107.127
thread_title:  War of words breaks out among Jehovah's Witnesses
Disputatio:Vilna

message: In nomine Shiauliai, "Sh" debet esse S-hacek, id est littera S cum parvula littera v super ea.

message: In Vicipaedia Latina debemus uti nominibus Latinis, non Lituanicis. Ergo reverti editionem usoris anonymi qui substituit Vilnius pro Vilna. Sed scio hanc rem difficilem esse: quid dicunt alii usores? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 12:26, 18 Maii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Compromissionem admiror, Andrea. Bene actum.--Ioshus (disp) 12:40, 18 Maii 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Nomen urbis
Disputatio:Vladislaus III Dracula

message: Slight problem: although the seal depicted on this page clearly lists his name as Vladislaus, the traditional enumeration of Wallachian rulers counts "Vlad" and "Vladislav" as two separate names. I may need to read one of those Latin biographies of Vlad Dracula to see what they call him (if I ever find the time). --Iustinus 23:46 nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

message: I'm undoing some of the changes made to the article in my absence. Obviously I need to account for that, but here's not room in the summary, so:
*Transylvaniae > in Transylvania; region, not city
*vwaida > waida; why did that happen, and how did it sick so long?
*Vallachiae > Wallachiae; that's how it's spelled in the paintings. Of course Vallachia does occur, so maybe Wallachiae would be better. (And I guess now we know how vwaida happened.)
*Turci > Turcae; that's how it's declined in the painting. Turcae is the usual (but not, I think, universal) form, presumably on analogy to Persae
*Restoring the ae-ligatures in the image captions: normally when I transcribe a period source, especially an image, I try to use the same lettering, even when it's against our usual style.
What do the rest of you think of the change of my monstruosus to ingens? Ingens is clearly more Ciceronian, but by the LSJ I think monstruosus covers it better. Likewise, I think I went with the medieval Impallator instead of the classical Perfictor because I assumed that would be the form used in period sources (I don't believe I ever actually found that epithet in any of them though). Both of these are debatable though, so just wanted to get opinions. --Iustinus 18:36, 11 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
replies: text: I've just now changed regit to rexit, but otherwise think you're right—except that you've got two successive sentences with three instances of causa in them, including two instances of qua de causa, and stylistically that may not be so good. ¶ As for monstruosus, the only author Cassell's cites for it is Cicero! and if the root of ingens implies merely bigness, but the root of monstruosus implies showiness, then monstruosus might indeed be better. IacobusAmor 18:51, 11 Decembris 2008 (UTC)
thread_title: Restorations
Disputatio:Galilaeus Galilaei

message: CalRis25 14:29 nov 6, 2004 (UTC): Shouldn't the title/name of this article be rather Galileus Galileus. That seems to have been the form used at the time. Have a look at the title page of a 1610-edition of Sidereus nuncius.
replies: text: In fact, Galileo himself seems to have used several different latinizations of his name. I don't have time to quote you any sources at the moment, but I'd like to do so later. Remind me if I don't get around to it. --Iustinus 17:54 nov 6, 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: :OK, so as CalRis has already shown, Galileo gave his name as Galileus Galileus in the 1610 edition of Sidereus nuncius. However, he was apparently using Galilaeus Galilaei when he published Systema Cosmicum as these images show. He was using that form at least as early as 1635 when he published Tractatus de Proportiuonum Instrumento. Galileus Galilei also seems to occur (thoguh the only example I can find offhand is an edition of Sidereus Nuncius of which I have no picture), but Galileus Galileius is from a 19th century inscription which you can see here and read  here (scroll down). Obviously this inscription is not in the running for the title of the entry, but the other forms, I would say, are. I picked Galilaeus Galilaei for two reasons: first of all it is closer to the modern "Galileo Galilei", second of all it is closer to the classical spelling of the word galilaeus. But I am not married to this form if you have some counterarguments. --Iustinus 06:06 nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

text: On a completely unrelated note, last time that image was brought up, it got turned into this.  —Myces Tiberinus 23:54 nov 6, 2004 (UTC)

message: Dear 고승환 , you inserted the name de Vincentio Boni-Auxilii but left the footnotes as they were---which means you're asserting that those sources (von Gebler 1879 and a cited title page) confirm that name. Have you checked both sources to verify that assertion? I've blanked out the added name, awaiting your confirmation. IacobusAmor (disputatio) 14:47, 19 Decembris 2022 (UTC)
thread_title:  De nomine
Disputatio:Urbs

message: Please see: :en:Latin names of European cities +it:, +ro: and :de:Liste lateinischer Ortsnamen (not only from Europe). Regards Gangleri 00:52 nov 8, 2004 (UTC)

message: My dictionaries aren't in agreement on this, however it seems to me that the closest equivalent to the English town or the Italian paese would be oppidum.  What do you think? LionhardusCiampa 02:13, 17 Septembris 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Oppidum certainly is a good equivalent for English "town", and urbs for "city". In English, admittedly, the meaning of these words varies from place to place. Oppidum suits a smaller and less-important place.

text: As far as I can see, Italian "paese" has a lot of other meanings; it often refers to a rural area, not to a town, and in that case it would translate to pagus or terra or some such word. But when it does refer to a town, as in a sentence such as "Napoli è un bel paese", you would not say pagus, I guess; you would say urbs or oppidum depending on the size of the place. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 18:20, 17 Septembris 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: :To me oppidum is more like a settlement than a city, and urbs is a city/town. Maybe it's because in Polish is one word for "town" and "city". We shouldn't involve English city/town rights into this subject. Przsak 00:01, 3 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::The definition of these political concepts is obviously going to depend sensitively on the laws and therefore the culture and time period of a place. I.e. they will vary from country to country and from age to age, and from one government/constitution to the next. For example, in the united states the definition varies from one state to the next.

text: ::Based on the descriptions at lacus curtius and elsewhere, in golden age Rome, an oppidum was any walled/fortified settlement, as opposed to a vicus or a villa; a pagus a defined rural geographical region with a government, and an oppidum was usually built within the pagus on a hill where the citizens could run and shelter against foreign attacks; and then an urbs was a city that played the part of Rome to its surrounding towns and usually built according to plan with two main roads. Each colonia had an urbs, and it could be small or big but it played the part of Rome to the incolae. In the late empire, when civitas was extended to all within the empire, it became customary to reorganize the empire into civitates (citizenships or cities in the wider archaic english sense), which geographically generally were the same as pagi, but organized according to census population for tax collection purposes. Today, in the united states, the civitates of that period would correspond to federal and state congressional districts.--173.70.154.122 00:42, 3 Iulii 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Oppidum = town = paese? 

message: Cavete diversitatem: http://www.bibsoc.org.uk/cathlibs/towns/towns-li.htm#P nomina latinificata urbium typographicorum--Agnus 03:18, 2 Decembris 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Nomina urbium – fons
Disputatio:Linguae mundi

message: Honestly this page is so full of errors and problems that when I first came to the Wikipedia, this was the page I wanted to fix. Unfortunately, the more I looked at it, the bigger the job seemed to be (especially when I considered things like all the linked pages I would be responsible for renaming). Now that I know more about how wiki works, I really should get off my clunes and do this someday soon. --Iustinus 15:09 nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
Et ego... nescio nomina latina linguarum, sed scio classificationem.  Ubi sunt linguae Nilo-Saharienses?  Aut Americani, nisi Iroquoiae?  Aut Papuanorum?  Go for it! - 172.202.106.195 01:45 nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
replies: text: There are now so many Romance languages listed that I wondered if it was a good idea to have a bit more hierarchy, allowing the important ones to shine out among the unimportant ones. So I have done this, and I have also tried to make a rough geographical arrangement from West to East. If others think the hierarchy is a bad idea, we can easily abandon it. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:43, 14 Ianuarii 2007 (UTC)

message: Si nomina alternativa sunt, inutile est multiplicare nexus; igitur reverti
replies: text: lingua Accadica sive lingua Archadica
ad

text: lingua Accadica sive Archadica. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:12, 11 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Purgatio

message: Quomodo scimus hanc linguam exstitisse? Pagina Anglica :en:African Romance in dubium est, fontibus carentibus. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:12, 11 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Respondeo ego (!) esse bibliographiam aliasque res de hanc linguam (si re vera fuit lingua) in Vicipaedia Italiana :it:Lingua romanza d'Africa. Sed rationem nominis "Vandalitica" non scio. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:50, 11 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: "Lingua Romanica Africana sive Vandalitica"

message: Sunt aut 5000 aut 6800 aut 13500 linguae (aut plures)!
#An debemus indicem integrum linguarum non in hac pagina, sed in paginis de familiis linguarum, habere?
#An debemus in hac pagina indicem selectum linguarum habere? Si sic faciendum, quomodo eligendum? Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 13:12, 11 Februarii 2007 (UTC)
Igitur paginam nunc compressi; indices linguarum intra familias retrahi; paginas familiarum linguisticarum incepi. Andrew Dalby (disputatio) 17:58, 5 Decembris 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Magnitudo paginae

message: Vide
thread_title: Colores familiarum
Disputatio:Declinatio

message: I'm sorry that in English. I think that hortus (garden) should be in the 2nd declension, not the 4th (it is hortus, horti). Szwejk 21:37 nov 13, 2004 (UTC)
You're right - I replaced it with "fructus." Adam Episcopus 02:17 nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

message: "Declinationes nominum sunt quinque (m.,f.,n.=genera):"
Debes etiam "c." = "communis" addere, e.g. iuvenis c.
"Declinationes nominum sunt quinque (m., f., n., c. = genera):
thread_title:  Common nouns 

message: I think Declinatio (grammatica) is the more common usage, here, right? I think this could redirect there, instead of discretiva...--Ioshus (disp) 23:39, 30 Decembris 2006 (UTC)
thread_title:  this page