Pembicaraan Wikipedia:Wikimedia Indonesia/Draft Pendirian Yayasan (en)

message: Jangan diterjemahkan dulu, menunggu artikel bahasa Indonesia diperbaharui dan disesuaikan dengan keperluan yayasan wikimedia. roscoe_x 17:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Bagian activities 

message: Pengen nanya terjemahan baku beberapa kata yang sering dipakai:
* Pasal = Article
* Pembina = Governing Board juga umumnya biasa disebut Board of Trustee ( saran saya jangan pakai Board of Trustee takutnya terjadi makna ganda dengan Board of Trustee Wikipedia pusat)
* Pengurus = administrator Executive Board
* Pengawas = Supervisory Board
roscoe_x 17:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, mencoba memberi masukan --AlCatrank(kirim pesan) 10:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
thread_title:  Terjemahan baku 

message: I have looked through your proposed bylaws, and while there are parts I think are good, there are some issues that makes me feel uncomfortable.
===Objectives and Activities===
I see no problem in p 3.1 activities, for p 3.2 see below. P 2 objectives I see as OK except  that you explicity state Bahai as where your effort will go. For WMF it is important that all wiki efforts done by individuals in Indonesia will be supported. Of course Bahai will be the  language mostly used (and supported) but it should not be the only one. The Local Chapter should support when people are updating the for example the English version or som small local languages.
===The structure of the organisation===
I read you bylaws that you propose an organisational set up where a Funder is at center and who executeus his/her powers with support of a Governing body. We are used of seeing a setup for a Local Chapter in the form of a memberdriven organisation, where members on a general meeting elect the board, and all utlimate power lies in the member community. With this in perspecitve I do not only see your proposed role of Funder and Governing body as unfamiliar but also the though of a board with mandates as long a five year, one year or in some cases two is what is seen in other Local Chapters.
I must admit that I do not really understand your approach, and therefor can have misunderstood it - ie we see the Local Chapters as basically non-profit organsiation that do support/lobbying work, not being comparable to an ordinary commercial company which as I feel you are describing.
Please excuse me, if I am in error, and please also understand that this input is from me personally not the whole ChapCom.  Anders Wennersten 16:00, 19 Desember 2007 (UTC) member of Chapcom and tresurer in Wikimedia Sverige
thread_title: Feedback

message: I see no problem in p 3.1 activities, for p 3.2 see below. P 2 objectives I see as OK except  that you explicity state Bahai as where your effort will go. For WMF it is important that all wiki efforts done by individuals in Indonesia will be supported. Of course Bahai will be the  language mostly used (and supported) but it should not be the only one. The Local Chapter should support when people are updating the for example the English version or som small local languages.
thread_title: Objectives and Activities

message: I read you bylaws that you propose an organisational set up where a Funder is at center and who executeus his/her powers with support of a Governing body. We are used of seeing a setup for a Local Chapter in the form of a memberdriven organisation, where members on a general meeting elect the board, and all utlimate power lies in the member community. With this in perspecitve I do not only see your proposed role of Funder and Governing body as unfamiliar but also the though of a board with mandates as long a five year, one year or in some cases two is what is seen in other Local Chapters.
I must admit that I do not really understand your approach, and therefor can have misunderstood it - ie we see the Local Chapters as basically non-profit organsiation that do support/lobbying work, not being comparable to an ordinary commercial company which as I feel you are describing.
Please excuse me, if I am in error, and please also understand that this input is from me personally not the whole ChapCom.  Anders Wennersten 16:00, 19 Desember 2007 (UTC) member of Chapcom and tresurer in Wikimedia Sverige
thread_title: The structure of the organisation

message: Hi Anders, 
Thanks for your input. 
# You are correct, we miss that one, we are going to change it into : Bahasa Indonesia and other local languages used in Indonesia -- after consulting to our lawyer first. I must say the way you use "Bahai" is something that is confusing at first and I swear I thought you were referring yourself to the Bahamas, please state Bahasa Indonesia clearly next time to avoid misunderstanding. We're not used to have it "shorten" like that, extra effort on punching the keyboard, I know, but one gotta do what one gotta do...
# The foundation or "yayasan" as we call it in Bahasa Indonesia is the only non-profit form that we see fit for Wikimedia local chapter platform. Unfortunately it is also come with a rigid rule on how one foundation should work within Indonesia rule of law. As you mentioned before, one of the rigid rule is actually "A founder-centered power". 
We didn't want this of course and we have had explore  the possibility of the founder or board is actually elected instead of appointed and consult it with our lawyer -- his answer is  simple, " I'm not sure how much it will cost to change that" -- for your information it is almost unheard of for the founder of a foundation to actually decide to have himself elected instead of appointed himself, and so goes the board that he elected and it may cost a lot or alternatively cost more than money, cost the platform to change into a non-foundation -- making it a profit one. This is something that all of us didn't want. 
But if electing board is an issue on your part, please bare in mind that Indonesian wikipedians who is eager (or not so eager) to set up a foundation is well aware that wikimedia and wikipedia is a totally different set of stone where wikimedia Indonesia should not or will not interfere with Wikipedia Bahasa Indonesia (WBI) -- so since it is a different set of "work" therefore it should not matter if it is set on a different set of system. we see wikimedia as something that resembles an offline activity than it is online.  
The same goes for the "period of time". To change the frame of "time" from five to other year or years preferred is a costly option (Rp Rp Rp) since it will cost more. We're not sure how much, but again five year come to us as OK since other option will cost more. 
Thank you for your personal input, this is how I see it: if other chapcom have similar question - you could answer it for us. Serenity 06:41, 21 Desember 2007 (UTC)
replies: text: Yes for the first issue, of Bahasa (excuse my using the wrong name), there seems to be no real problem. Something like your new proposed wording would make it OK.

text: For the second issue I feel very sympathetic to your situation and would like to help you out as much as possible, but I do not see this issue as settled yet. As I read your bylaws all power of Wikimedia Indonesia will reside with the Board, Governing Body and Founder, who among themself appoint each other, this would make it extremly hard fo outsiders including the WMF to interfere if the the powers of the organisation is miused by Wikimedia Indonesia.

text: I will forward to the others in ChapCom a link to this discussion for also them to comment on this issue (by the way perhaps we should move to to your meta bylaws talk page?) Anders Wennersten 10:13, 21 Desember 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: Answers to feedback

message: Hello, I have copy/pasted these pages to meta, as this is where this discussion belongs. You can find it here: meta:Talk:Wikimedia Indonesia/Bylaws/en. Cheers! notafish 10:48, 21 Desember 2007 (UTC)
thread_title: These pages moved to meta