Vita:Hosszúkard

message: A szócikkben szerepel a következő szövegrész: "... teljes tömege 2 kg körül mozog(1,8 kg az ideális (?Forrás?))"
VSZ elég nehezen értelmezhető az ideális tömeg: ezt meghatározza a felhasználó fizikuma, képességei, küzdőstílusa, illetve az, hogy mihez fogja használni: páncélos vívás, párbaj, önvédelem. Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2013. február 14., 05:11 (CET)
replies: text: Mivel lassan 9 hónapja nincs megadva forrás a hosszúkard "ideális" tömegére, ezért lassan törölni fogom ezt a részt.-- Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2013. november 7., 12:26 (CET)
replies: text: :Töröltem. Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2016. március 24., 08:32 (CET)
thread_title:  A hosszúkard "ideális" tömege 

message: 1.
http://www.palus.demon.co.uk/Sword_Stats.html
Matt Galas Mons, Belgium
(rapier, másféles, kétkezes)
Kétkezes:
The source for this information is Die Zweihaender des Landeszeughauses in Graz (The Two-handers of the Provincial Arsenal in Graz) by K. Kamniker and P. Krenn. (ez a forrás Clements cikkében is meg lesz említve)
2.
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=25234
True two handed sword measurements?
"The 2 two-handers in Cleveland are certainly Spanish (Toledo), nos.1916.1507 and 1916.1509, weighing 2.24kg and 2.2kg (just over/under 5lbs), and just under/over 66 inches respectively. I don't have any info on the PoB. The sword in your photo, in the Musee de l' Armee, Paris, is almost certainly of the same type and similar dimensions, but I don't have any details."
3.
http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html
The Weighty Issue of Two-Handed Greatswords
By J. Clements (Dec, 2004)
Rengeteg adat. A cikk érdekessége, hogy Töll úr neve is szerepel benne.
Néhány részlet:
"A 15th century two-handed Federschwert (practice sword) of 51.5 inches in length now at the Swiss National Landesmuseum weighs in at only 3.12lbs (1.415kg). Another warsword there of 48 inches in length weighs 4.63lbs (2.10kg), and an acutely tapered one of a length of 46.7 inches weighs in at only 3.018lbs (1.369kg)."
"Arms authority, David Edge, former head curator and current conservator of the famed Wallace Collection museum in London, similarly states for us: "I very recently had occasion to handle a couple of similar-sized hand-and-a-half 16th-century 'heading' swords in the [Wallace] Collectio one undoubtedly genuine (A721) and one now thought to be a Victorian fake (A723), albeit not described as such in the 1962 [Wallace Collection] catalogue. The two swords handled completely and dramatically differentl on checking their weights the genuine one weighed 3 lbs. 12 oz., and felt like it could take a head off with ease, while the fake weighed in at an unwieldy 5lbs 3 oz. and to wield felt more like an iron bar intended to bludgeon the unfortunate prisoner to death! Clearly making replica swords too heavy is not the sole prerogative of modern
manufacturers Victorian copyists appear sometimes to have fallen into the same trap! It is interesting to compare these weights with that of a double-handed fighting sword of similar date…for example, our Landsknecht double-hander #A470, the one with a wavy blade. This (a much larger sword all round) still only weighs a mere 7 lbs. 4 oz."
Megjegyzés: Valószínűleg elírás, inkább beheading sword = hóhérpallós
Még mindig David Edge véleménye:
"Original weapons are indeed far lighter than most people realize 3 lbs for an 'average' late-medieval cross-hilt sword, say, and 7-8 lbs for a Landsknecht two-handed sword, to give just a couple of examples from weapons in this collection. Processional two-handed swords are usually heavier, true, but rarely more than 10 lbs. The heaviest and most enormous sword in our entire Armoury only weighs 14 lbs and was probably ceremonial."
Forrás: militia.hu, Vívás 
Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2013. február 14., 05:11 (CET)
thread_title:  Adatok 

message: "ARMA consultant Henrik Andersson of the Livrustkammaren, Swedish Royal Armoury of Stockholm, provides a table with the following measurements on two-handed and greatswords in the collection there. ...
One-and -a-half-handed sword. No: LRK 12711.
German, c1475-1525.
Length: 1153 mm (45.3 inches)
Blade: 932 mm (36.6 inches)
Weight: 1320 g (2.9 lbs)
Two-handed sword. No: LRK 12706.
German. Late 15th century.
Length: 1473 mm (58 inches)
Blade: 1066 mm (41.9 inches)
Weight: 2720 g (5.9 lbs)
Two-handed sword. No: LRK 12715.
German, c1475-1525.
Length: 1382 mm (54.4 inches)
Blade: 1055 mm (41.5 inches)
Weight: 1550 g (3.4 lbs)
Two-handed sword. No: LRK 5480.
Germany, 15th century.
Length: 1375 mm (54.2 inches)
Blade: 920 mm (36.2 inches)
Weight: 1600 g (3.5 lbs)"
Forrás: militia.hu 
Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2013. február 14., 05:11 (CET)
thread_title:  Adatok (2.rész) 

message: Wallace Collection:
http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org
Search: longsword, Results: 23 (longswords)
Mindegyikhez van azonosítószám, fénykép, adatok; látszik, hogy nem a földből kerültek elő.
A hosszúkardok tömege (kg) (a megjelenítés sorrendjében): 
1.59 1.60 1.62 1.53 1.16
2.05 1.91 1.54 2.16 1.60
1.88 1.56 1.99 1.80 1.50
2.14 3.13 1.30 1.62 1.82
1.70 1.55 1.15
Átlag: 1,74 kg (1,735)
Átlag: 1,70 kg (kidobva legkisebb, illetve legnagyobb értéket) (1,696)
Pár gondolat egy angol fórumról:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15362
Heavy reenactment swords
Matt Easton:
"However, it is certainly true that original swords vary hugely in weight and mass distribution. In the earlier days of the WMA/HEMA community there was a slight obsession with pushing the point that real swords are light, but quite simply they aren't always. Looking at 'normal' sized original longswords you can find weights ranging from 2lbs right the way up to 'reenactorish' 5lbs+. What is perhaps more useful is to talk about the most frequent range of weights, so for an 'average' longsword we're looking at 2.5-3.5lbs, rather than the average found on reenactment fields which is more like 3.5-4.5lbs. However, I have to say that reenactment swords, both in authenticity of design and in weight do seem to have got better in recent years, perhaps thanks to demands from HEMA."
"There are all sorts of different advantages and disadvantages to heavier or lighter swords, and to swords with different points of balance. It depends totally on personal taste and on what you want to achieve with the sword. The sword you want for fighting other swordsmen unarmoured will often be very different to the sword you want to use in war in armour, or the sword you want to use on foot versus mounted, or against another armoured man versus lightly armoured troops with polearms etc. The fact is, there are all sorts of swords, of all sorts of weights, stiffnesses, lengths, shapes etc because there are countless situations to use swords in, and countless different personal tastes. It is patently obvious when looking at and handling original swords that some are optimised for one type of use, and others for a different use. Light or heavy is not better by itself."
Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2013. február 14., 05:11 (CET)
thread_title:  Adatok (3. rész) 

message: "Some new data on longsword length & weight (mass) (60+ longswords). Some averages: 13/14th century sword: total length: 1148 mm, blade length: 907 mm, weight: 1516 gr; 15th century sword: 1159 mm, blade length: 897 mm, weight: 1506 gr Pretty similar to the 13/14th century average.; 16th century sword: 1169 mm, blade length: 912 mm, weight: 1671 gr."
Forrás: http://www.hroarr.com/longswords-and-their-data/
A cikk további hivatkozásokat tartalmaz, ahol részletesen le van írva minden egyes hosszúkard.
--Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2013. november 7., 12:34 (CET)
thread_title:  Adatok (4. rész) 

message: VSZ egységesíteni kellene a szóhasználatot. A rapír kifejezésre szavaznék. -- Ulrich von Lichtenstein vita 2017. február 10., 06:28 (CET)
thread_title:  Rapier vs rapír