Arutelu:Valge Lootos

message: kus sa need burlakid hiinast leidsid  Andres?
Näita mulle kirja kohta kus sa selle maha kirjutasid,  --VanemTao 4. november 2006, kell 18:46 (UTC)
replies: text: Vaata saksa vikit. Seal on sõna Treidler. "Burlakk" on küll Hiina kohta pisut imelik sõna, aga mis oleks parem? Võid selle ka välja jätta.

text: Allikad ei pruugi olla usaldatavad. kui leiad, et midagi on valesti, siis paranda. Andres 4. november 2006, kell 19:17 (UTC)  
Riigipöörde vajalikkust käsitleb Valge Lootos alati seisukohalt et vaimsus püsiks ja materiaalne maailma vaade ei saaks riigis  valitsema.

text: Võtsin selle praegu välja, sest see tundub arusaamatu. Tuleks selgemalt sõnastada. Kas jutt on sellest, et riigipöördele tuleb kaasa aidata, kuid ise ei tohi võimule asuda? Kas riigipöörde eesmärk on vaimsuse püsimisele kaasa aitamine? Andres 4. november 2006, kell 19:17 (UTC)

message: Möte mida tahtsin väljendada: Taolased  vastavalt enda arusaamadele vaimsuse ja materialismi balansist tolle aegses yhiskonnas pyydsid aegadel mil elu läks  liiga raskeks luua soodsamat riigikorda ,
Ideaal-kujund nende jaoks oli   Sukhavati.Enamus inimesed arvavad et see tähendab Amitabha kultust ja ainult ,kuid Amido ise on vaid vahend  jöudmaks ajutisse paradiisi enne löpliku hääbumist nirvaanasse.
Kuna Amido ehk Amitabha on samast perest mis Padma , siis on loomulik et Hiinas   taolaste hulgas oli  yhine baas olemas selleks et praktiseerida tanraid.jne.jne,jne
Neid kardeti nende vöimsuse pärast ,neid keda sina paned nimekirja olid hangumehed ja muu mass, Taolased pakkusid rahvale rahva-kultuuri , endale vötsid shokolaadid ja tordid , siis seoses teadmiste ja mysteeriumitega  .
Nende eestvedajate taolastega on kohutavalt palju igasugu muinasjutulisi lugusid  olemas.
Valge Lootose vöimudele kallale kargamise  pöhjus oli just   rahva rahulolematus ja vilets elu , millest taolased ka ise söltusid.  ,   Ei saanud nad poliitilist  koalitsiooni blokki moodustada  koos valitsusega.
Kas kysimusi vöi vastuväiteid on ?
--VanemTao 4. november 2006, kell 19:36 (UTC)
replies: text: Vastuväiteid mul ei ole. Sain küll pisut uut teada,  aga koht, mille ma välja tõstsin, on minu jaoks endiselt segane. Andres 4. november 2006, kell 20:52 (UTC)

message: Välja tõstetud:
''Valge Lootose ühingu liikmed olid eelkõige vaesed talupojad, kuid nende seas oli ka näiteks voorimehi, burlakke ja väikekaupmehi.   	
''Nad olid ranged taimetoitlased. Nad keeldusid maksude maksmisest ja teoorjusest. 	 
''[[Näljahäda]]sid, [[üleujutus]]i ja muid suuri õnnetusi tõlgendas Valge Lootos märkidena koolkonna poolt eriti austatava buda [[Amitabha]] taastulekust. 
[[Kasutaja:Andres|Andres]] 26. november 2006, kell 13:02 (UTC)

message: Keegi kirjutas  siia et Valge Lootos oli   segu manilusest.Pidasin manilasi siiani kristlasteks , Valge Lootosega pole neid veel keegi  kunagi seostanud.
Selle loo  siin peab lihtsalt ymber kirjutama.
Keegi topib pidevalt sisse kristlike möisteid  kyll budismi ,kyll muudesse ida religioonidega seotud artiklitesse,mis on  muidugi täielik mööda panek, Kaastundel budismis ei ole mitte midagi yhist kristliku sentimentalismi ja Jumala kultusega.--VanemTao 26. november 2006, kell 13:11 (UTC)
--Mina töstsin selle välja--VanemTao 26. november 2006, kell 13:12 (UTC)
replies: text: Sina tõmbasid selle lihtsalt välja, mina tõstsin selle igaks juhuks arutelulehele.

text: Ma ei tea, kas Valgel Lootosel oli maniluse mõjutusi (saksa viki väidab, et nende õpetuses oli maniluse elemente), kuid manilased ei ole kindlasti mitte kristlased. Andres 26. november 2006, kell 13:21 (UTC)

message: Kas manilased (manihheism) ei kuulu algkristliku liikumise hulka?
replies: text: Ei. Vaata :en:Manichaeism. Seal mainitakse ka selle mõju Hiina budismile. Andres 26. november 2006, kell 13:39 (UTC)

message: Thnxx!

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Religion was also a vehicle for the masses rebelling against the harsh Mongol rule, against the exploitation by the exclusive class of Mongols and the rich Chinese gentry. The secret societies rebelling against Mongol rule combined Daoist with Buddhist elements and hoped that the Maitreya Buddha would descend from Heaven and save mankind. The White Lotus Society (Bailianjiao 白蓮教) of Mao Ziyuan 茅子元 , and the White Cloud Society (Baiyunjiao 白雲教 ) of Kong Qingjiao 孔清覺 , recruited their followers among the saltern workers and the miners who especially felt the yoke of the Yuan exploitation. A third sect taking part in the overthrow of the Mongols was the secret society of the Red Turbans (Hongjin 紅巾 ).http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Yuan/yuan-religion.html
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*[http://website.leidenuniv.nl/~haarbjter/169_016.pdf  WHOSE NORM, WHOSE HERESY  THE GASE OF
THE CHINESE WHITE LOTUS MOVEMENT ]
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*   Messianism and the Heaven andEarth Society: Approaches toHeaven and Earth Society Texts 
* The Red Turbans: Religious Syncretists and Sectarian Rebels 
In the first half of the twentieth century the Green Gang was one of the best known of China's secret societies among foreigners and Chinese alike. The fact that treaty ports such as Tianjin and Shanghai were major centers of Green Gang activity kept it constantly in the eye of the foreign community
Briefly, these studies show that the Green Gang emerged in its modern form at the turn of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries from the Anqing Daoyou ("Friends of the Way of Tranquility and Purity," or the Anqing League), a secret society active in the Subei region of Jiangsu.
The Anqing Daoyou drew on the traditions of the Grand Canal grain transport boatmen's associations, which were affiliated with the Patriarch Luo Sect  a popular Buddhist sect. The general antecedents of the Green Gang are to be found in the traditions of the Patriarch Luo Sect, a late Ming secular, salvationist Buddhist sect that had evolved from the White Lotus tradition of sectarian Buddhism. The sect's founder, Luo Qing, stressed the importance of individual enlightenment, a message that, when directed at non-elite audiences, provided powerful encouragement for the empowerment of the ordinary individual in the religious sphere.
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Manicheism  (
Many features of Manicheism soon became indistinguishable from Buddhist beliefs and ethics, and especially the popular Buddhist White Cloud 白雲宗 and White Lotus Sects 白蓮宗 incorporated Manicheism as just a special form of popular Buddhism that had common features like renouncing meat and eating only vegetables.
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White Lotus Society, led by Han Shantong (from Yingzhou of Henan Prov) and Liu Futong (from Luancheng of Henan Prov), had secretly implanted an one-eye stone statute in Huanglinggang area and then spread the rumor stating that rebellion would erupt should a stone man with one eye be dug up from the Yellow River bed. Jia Lu did not pay attention to the stone man and ordered that it be destroyed. Han Shantong declared himself jiu shi ming wang, i.e., bright-minded king for salvation of mankind, and rebelled in Ru-Ying areas of Henan Prov. AD.1351.
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a. The name White Lotus Society白莲社 is sufficient to assume a link with a phenomena called by the names White Lotus Society or White Lotus Teachings白莲教. In other words: there is one historically continuous White Lotus tradition.
b. The White Lotus Society as a socio-religious phenomenon was materially different from the rest of lay Buddhism俗人的佛教 during the Song宋代 and Yuan明代.
c. The late Yuan晚元 Maitreyist uprising led by Han Shantong韩山童 was an uprising by a White Lotus Society from the same tradition as the society founded by Mao Ziyuan茅子远.
d. This uprising represented a definitive change of the devotionalist White Lotus Society into the Maitreyist White Lotus Teachings, rather than an accidental combination caused by the specific circumstances of the late Yuan.
Less crucial to this line of reasoning, although probably essential to the acceptability of this change in the eyes of the scholars, is the assumption that there was a change within the tradition founded by Mao Ziyuan towards eclecticism ( also called popularization by some scholars ). The perception of this change is based on the small amount of polemical literature against this tradition, referred to above.
The definitive transformation of the Society into the new style Maitreyist White Lotus Teachings, during the late Yuan, is considered by nearly all the scholars to be an unquestionable fact. The subsequent prohibition of the White Lotus Society and of Maitreyism in the Ming明代, is taken as the logical result of two Yuan prohibitions and this transformation. ( Shigematsu, 1940; Overmyer, 1976; Wu, 1956 , and many others ).
The scacre and often obscure evidence from the period of 1368 until about 1573 is generally interpreted as one whole, on the basis of the following assumptions:
e. All Maitreyist, millenarian and to some scholars even lay Buddhist uprisings or incidents are representative of the White Lotus Teachings, whether the sources mention the name or not ( Leading to quasi-accurate statistics of occurrence: Soda , 1974 and Noguchi , 1986).
f. Occurrences of the name refer to one phenomenon, believed by most scholars to be one organizational structure.Noguchi Tetsuro is very explicit in this respect,assuming that until 1573 the name referred to one religious group and that thereafter groups started to assume different names to avoid the " dangerous" name White Lotus Teachings ( Noguchi, 1986; Yu ,1987; Cf. Overmyer, 1988; review of Yu , 1987)
g. Late sources can be utilized for earlier periods at the same level of reliability as contemporary sources, either as sources of facts from this earlier period, or as sources for the larger religious context of such facts. Sources from different geographical regions are combined according to this same principle
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Their best known antecedent was the White Lotus sect, an independent group founded by a monk named Mao Ziyuan (1086-1166). Mao combined simplified Tiantai teaching with Pure Land practice, invoking Amitabha's saving power with just five recitations of his name. After Mao's death the sect, led by laymen who married, spread across south and east China. In the process it incorporated charms and prognostication texts, and by the fourteenth century branches in Guangxi and Honan were strongly influenced by Daoist methods of cultivating the internal elixirs. This led to protests from more orthodox leaders of the Pure Land tradition, monks in the east who appealed to the throne that they not be proscribed along with the "heretics." This appeal succeeded, and the monastic branch went on to be considered part of the tradition of the Pure Land school, with Mao Ziyuan as a revered patriarch
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The more rustic side of the White Lotus tradition was prohibited three times in the Yuan, but flourished nonetheless, with its own communal organizations and scriptures and a growing emphasis on the presence within it of the future Buddha Maitreya. During the civil wars of the mid-fourteenth century this belief encouraged full-scale uprisings in the name of the new world Maitreya was expected to bring. The Ming founder Zhu Yuanzhang (1328-1398) had for a time been an officer in one of the White Lotus armies, but after his victory tried to suppress the sect. It continued to multiply nonetheless, under a variety of names.
The first extant sectarian scriptures, produced in the early sixteenth century, indicate that by that time there were two streams of mythology and belief, one more influenced by Daoism, the other by Buddhism. The Daoist stream incorporated much terminology from the Golden Elixir school (Jindandao), and was based on the myth of a saving mother goddess, the Eternal Venerable Mother, who is a modified form of the old Han-dynasty Queen Mother of the West, a figure mentioned in Quanzhen teachings as well. The Buddhist stream was initiated by a sectarian reformer named Luo Qing (1443-1527), whose teachings were based on the Chan theme of "attaining Buddhahood through seeing one's own nature." Luo criticized the White Lotus and Maitreya sects as being too concerned with outward ritual forms, but later writers in his school incorporated some themes from the Eternal Mother mythology, while other sectarian founders espousing this mythology imitated Luo Qing's example of writing vernacular scriptures to put forth their own views. These scriptures, together with their successors, the popular spirit-writing texts of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, constitute a fourth major body of Chinese sacred texts, after those of the Confucians, Buddhists, and Daoists
http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Writings/Chinese%20Religions%20-%20Overview.htm Chinese Religion: An Overview
--VanemTao 27. november 2006, kell 03:52 (UTC)
thread_title: Materjal

message: Korduval kontrollimisel on leitud, et järgnev välislink ei tööta. Kontrolli selle toimimist ja vajadusel paranda vigane link. Kategooria:Katkiste linkidega artiklid
* http://villa.lakes.com/cdpatton/Dharma/Jing-tu/figures.html
** In Valge Lootos on 2013-06-24 14:05:45, 404 Not Found
** In Valge Lootos on 2013-07-07 21:01:05, 404 Not Found
--MastiBot (arutelu) 8. juuli 2013, kell 00:01 (EEST)
thread_title:  Katkine link 2 

message: Märkus, et rikutakse autoriõigusi pandi 8 aastat tagasi. See veebileht () pole leitav enam ka arhiivimisprogrammidega. --Bioneer1 (arutelu) 1. august 2014, kell 19:47 (EEST)
replies: text: See ei välista autoriõiguste rikkumist :) Andres (arutelu) 2. jaanuar 2016, kell 14:58 (EET)
thread_title: Autoriõiguste rikkumine?