Diskussion:Gunboat Grinder

message: *"Grinder was a gunboat, not a commissioned warship"; so it wasn't an HMS? (GB Grinder?)
*"English gun brig...proved to be the Grinder"; was Grinder a brig?
*How many of the English ships were HMS? E.g. Cook's Endeavour was an HMB (His Majesty's Bark).
*Were Owen Glendower, Avenger, Ranger, Rose and Snipe all frigates?
*I assume that Captain William Selby was from Royal Marines.
*Where is Harrup?
*According to the Danish sources, which ranks did Skibsted, Oldelan and Falsen got; what was the Danish name for "Prise No.5".
*Were Sheldrake and Tartar men, frigates, sloops...
*I'll just call the third rates for linjeskibe (Ship-of-the-line). --Med venlig hilsen Necessary Evil 29. jun 2011, 19:15 (CEST)
Hallo again. Many of your questions are the ones that at least four Brits have been trying to answer for nearly a year!
*Grinder has never been registered or recorded in the British navy and so is not a true “HMS”.  She was a smaller vessel attached, during the period we have records, to the garrison on the island of Anholt  and has the same sort of status as a large ship’s boat attached to the frigate or ship-of-the-line.  (Here, let me say, that the island of Anholt was called HMS Anholt by the British for administration purposes while it was occupied by them.  Land bases occupied by the navy are sometimes called “stone frigates” and are commissioned as HMS named)  Grinder is best classed as a “Tender” – a smaller ship serving a larger one., with no independent existence.
* The proper term could probably be Gunboat
* No, Grinder was not as big as a Brig.  The newspaper report called her a gunbrig, but that was probably due to lack of information.  Each British newspaper report of the time was repeating what had been in Danish or German newspapers, with all the usual problems of translation and re-writing.
*HMS Owen Glendower (or Owen Glendour) was a Royal Navy 36-gun Apollo-class frigate see -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Owen_Glendower_(1808) 
* Avenger, Ranger, Rose and Snipe all frigates? NO! identified as sloops in one reference, but perhaps even smaller.
From http://www.ageofnelson.org/MichaelPhillips/index.html
**HMS Avenger – an ex collier
**HMS Ranger – no information as regards size, but not very large.  Much service in Danish waters.
**HMS Rose - also small, she could be rowed with large sweeps (oars) if needed.
**HMS Snipe –(12) gunbrig
*HMS Sheldrake was a Royal Navy 16-gun Seagull-class brig-sloop – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheldrake_(1806) and also at http://www.ageofnelson.org/MichaelPhillips/index.html
*Captain Selby was a Naval Captain, commanding HMS Owen Glendower
* Where is Harrup? A very good question – I cannot find it, although I have tried to spell it differently with a ”Danish mind”.  This is as reported in th epapers from the British National Archives!!  Perhaps you, as a Dane, will have more luck!
*Tartar (32) also seen on http://www.ageofnelson.org/MichaelPhillips/index.html
*How many of the English ships were HMS? Again see Phillips website.  Far more than I can count.  I have seen comparisons of the sizes of the navies, and Britain was the largest.  I will hunt again for the information.
Grinder's guns are listed on the article, so that gives an indication of her size - together with her 28-30 man crew.  Her captain was not an officer, men en underofficier "Masters Mate"
Does this answer most questions?  mvH Viking1808 29. jun 2011, 22:23 (CEST)
replies: text: So HMS Grinder (1802) should be GB Grinder (1802) after all? Since Cook's Endeavour was an HMB, are you sure that all the British commissioned warships are HMS? Or has all the "His Majesty's this and that" been standardized to "HMS" since Cook? I'm only refering to the man-o-wars mentioned in the article.

text: Skibsted and Falsen were premierløjtnanter, and Oldelan was a kadet, right? According to the Danish sources, what was the Danish name for "Prise No.5"? --Med venlig hilsen Necessary Evil 30. jun 2011, 00:14 (CEST)
Grinder’s names: According to the record card at Orlogsmuseet (http://www.orlogsmuseet.dk/registrant.html ), this ship was known as Grinder and as Prise Nr 5 , but no other name is recorded. ( http://www.orlogsmuseet.dk/G/pages/Grinder(1810).htm ) .  Also see http://www.orlogsmuseet.dk/P/pages/Prise%20No.1%2C%20II%2C2%2C3%2C4%2C5(1808).htm .
Oldelan: From C. F. Wandell’s book “Søkrigen  .. etc” page 264 [translated by me] “On 21 April, Midshipman Oldelan was named as commander of the newly captured Grinder: when it had been put in order, it should be placed in the flotilla at Fladstrand under Lt Tuxen  and renamed Prise Nr. 5”  Maanedslieut. Oldelan is the phrase used – perhaps acting-Lieutenant? Oldelan does not get an entry in Topsøe-Jensens book (unless you can find it!)
Skibsted and Falsen were premierløjtnanter – correct.  Where I have translated this as ”first lietenant” here and in other English articles, I will be changing to ”senior lieutenant” because the phrase first lieutenant  (in English) actually means second-in-command
The title of the article, in both languages, should probably be Gunboat Grinder or something similar.  I did have doubts about calling her HMS Grinder but nobody else has picked up on that!  Other comments from you above, I will be working into the English article text to clarify.  Also, it may prove useful to copy this exchange into the article’s discussion page.
Again, many thanksViking1808 30. jun 2011, 15:13 (CEST)
thread_title:  Oversættelse af HMS Grinder (1802) 

message: Hvorfor er den gode link til den engelske en:Battle_of_Anholt  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Anholt fjernet til en røde link til Slaget om Anholt (ikke skrevet endnu) ?  Hvis Slaget om Anholt  er ikke skrevet endnu, er det ikke bedre at læse nogle på engelsk, end ingenting?  (Jeg håber min dansk er god nok!!) mvH Viking1808 17. sep 2011, 22:05 (CEST)
replies: text: Hvis du tænker på denne ændring, så er det fordi vi ikke linker til andre sprogversioner i løbende tekst, da dette er den dansksprogede Wikipedia. Røde links er ikke forbudt, da de kan lokke andre til at oprette en artikel.  - Sarrus (d • b)  d. 17. sep 2011, 22:08 (CEST)
replies: text: :Tak for det! Hvis der kommer nogen til at skrive "Slaget om Anholt" fra den danske synspunkt, eller vil oversæt den engelske version til dansk, vil jeg gerne arbejde med dem. (med engelske øjner) Viking1808 18. sep 2011, 12:40 (CEST)
replies: text: :: Tak til "Necessary Evil" og "Trade" er Slaget om Anholt nu blå.  Viking1808 27. sep 2011, 14:22 (CEST)
thread_title:  Dansk eller Engelsk 

message: Nu i diskussion på den artikel på engelsk - en mindre orlogskib ved navnet GRINDER var ophygget i 1832.  Det er muligt det er det samme gunboat som her.  Viking1808 8. okt 2011, 13:25 (CEST)
thread_title:  Udgået 1832