Bespreking:Nedersakse

message: Ek het nie nou 'n woordeboek by my nie, maar is die korrekte spelvorm nie Neder-Sakse nie? Dit is tog 'n samestelling van "neder" met 'n eienaam, soortgelyk aan bv. Suid-Afrika, Oranje-Vrystaat, Benede-Oranjerivier, ensovoorts. Graaf (kontak) 14:30, 30 Maart 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: Ek dink "Nedersakse" is meer gebruiklik - net soos "Nederduitse Hervormde Kerk". Die Afrikaanse taalkundige Edith Raidt gebruik eweneens terme soos Angelsaksies, Nedersaksies, Standaardengels sonder koppelteken. --Voyageur (kontak) 15:07, 30 Maart 2009 (UTC)
Ek het nou in die HAT gekyk, maar kry hom nie daar nie. My Bosman, Van der Merwe en Hiemstra vertaal egter "Lower Saxony" met Neder-Sakse. Graaf (kontak) 15:24, 30 Maart 2009 (UTC)

text: Dit is nogtans in etimologiese opsig nie korrek nie aangesien sowel Nederlands asook Duits Nedersaksen/Niedersachsen spel. Gewoonlik word die Afrikaanse spelwyse steeds van Nederlands afgelei - dus Nedersakse, Nederryn, Nieu-Seeland. Daardie vreeslike anglisismes soos Neder-Sakse (na aanleiding van Lower Saxony) en hy was gebore in... (he was born in... ) skreeu myns insiens ten hemele. --Voyageur (kontak) 16:50, 30 Maart 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: :Afrikaanse taalreëls is nie noodwending dieselde as Nederlands nie. Suid-Afrika is bv. op 'n stadium Suidafrika gespel en die Nederlands was Zuid-Afrika. Ek ken nie die Nederlandse taalreëls nie, maar dit lyk asof die Neder-Rynrivier in Nederlands soms Neder-Rijn en soms Nederrijn gespel word. Die Afrikaanse Wêreldatlas spel dit Neder-Ryn (alhoewel dit natuurlik nie as gesaghebbend beskou moet word nie). Tot dusver was die genoemde tweetalige woordeboek ongelukkig die enigste wat ek kon opspoor wat Neder-Sakse enigsins aanspreek. Dit sou eintlik gaaf wees as iemand met toegang tot 'n WAT ons kon adviseer. Graaf (kontak) 10:41, 31 Maart 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Ek besit die Elektroniese WAT en het bietjie gaan kyk.  Ongelukkig nie baie duidelik nie.  Daar is nie 'n lemma vir Nedersakse of Neder-Sakse nie, maar wel vir nedersaksies. Hier is die teks:

text: ::"Nedersaksies b.nw., Nedersaksiese. Van of wat betref die deelstaat Neder-Sakse i.d. Noordweste van Duitsland tussen die grens van Nederland en die Elberivier."

text: ::Sê dit dat die byvoeglike naamwoord as een woord geskrywe word, maar die deelstaat met 'n koppelteken?? Dit maak nie sin nie.

text: ::Die AWS is meer duidelik: 3.10.3 Geografiese eiename wat geen eienaamelement bevat nie word sonder koppelteken geskrywe bv.

text: ::Noordpool.

text: ::Die lys gee ook "nedersaksies" sonder koppelteken.  Of die deelstaat nou Nedersakse of Neder-Sakse is weet ek nie.

text: ::Ek het verder gaan kyk in Pharos.  Lower Saxony word vertaal met "Neder-Sakse" (met koppelteken) en aan die Afrikaanse kant "Neder-Sakse" vir die deelstaat en "nedersaksies" vir die byvoeglike naamwoord. Taalkundiges maak my mal.hansjoseph (kontak) 13:10, 31 Maart 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: :::Die Afrikaanse pers en webwerwe gebruik albei vorms. Kom ons aanvaar die feit dat mense wat moontlik ook Duits of Nederlands magtig is wél die voorkeur aan Nedersakse gee, terwyl ander Afrikaanssprekendes ook geen fout met Neder-Sakse vind nie. Daar is ook geen vaste reëls in Internasionale Engels nie - Britse Engels gebruik ook dikwels die koppelteken in gevalle waar ons woorde aaneenskryf. --Voyageur (kontak) 16:52, 31 Maart 2009 (UTC)

text: ::'n Verwikkeling na aanleiding van hierdie bespreking is dat die Nederlanders nou oorweeg of hulle artikel oor die Neder-Rijn se titel dalk verkeerd gespel is! nl:Wikipedia:Taalcafé#Neder-Rijn of Nederrijn Graaf (kontak) 22:02, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Naam in Afrikaans

message: ::I know this might not be directly to do with Nedersakse/Neder-Sakse, but I would really appreciate it if someone can tell me when to use a hyphen or just jion the words togerher? for example - 'botswana-weg/botswanaweg botswana-dam/botswanadam botswana-park/botswanapark botswana-stad, botswana-rylaan and so on... which is right? This is expeciallty confusing in Pleknaamsveranderinge in Suid-Afrika.--Bezuidenhout (kontak) 15:59, 30 Maart 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: :Kyk 'n bietjie http://www.geocities.com/afrikaanse_spelreels/12koppelteken.html, dit kan jou dalk help. Graaf (kontak) 16:17, 30 Maart 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: :Kyk ook by http://www.geocities.com/afrikaanse_spelreels/09hoofletters.html vir inligting oor spesifiek straatname.Graaf (kontak) 09:58, 31 Maart 2009 (UTC)

text: :Hier is meer inligting oor straatname: http://www.fs.gov.za/Departments/SAC/Library/Depart/language_artikels.htm Graaf (kontak) 10:41, 31 Maart 2009 (UTC)
replies: text: ::Generally common nouns are joined together to form long compounds, but common nouns are hyphenated to other proper nouns.  — Adriaan90 (Bespreking • Bydraes) 13:00, 31 Maart 2009 (UTC)
thread_title: Los- en vasskryf, koppeltekens

message: @ Anonieme gebruiker: Berlyn is 'n Oos-Duitse deelstaat en stad. Dit kwalifiseer hoegenaamd nie as 'n Noord-Duitse nedersetting nie, en sy bewoners praat ook geen Nederduitse dialek nie. --Voyageur (kontak) 21:04, 29 Oktober 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: Sorry, I have to answer in English, since my Afrikaans is no good at all. To be precise, Berlin (Berlyn) is a Northeast German city as well as a Northeast-German State: It qualifies for both attributes: East German as well as North German. Following your logic - one can argue that Bremen is a West German city because of its location in Nortnwest Germany. North Germanys borders can not be exactly defined and what is Northgerman or not, varies from the context: geography, language, culture etc. ( compare German Wikipedia and its diskussions). Berlin is historically defintly considered a Northgerman city, originally lying in an area, where East Low German (Oos-Nederduits) was spoken. Nowaday in all urban areas in the north Standard-German is spoken- occacionally with small traces or hints of Low-German. That counts for Hannover or Berlin as well for Hamburg or Rostock. Hannover for example, Its consider to have the clearest Standard German. Only in rural areas, in small villages and such, some people of a generation of 50 and older speak Low German Dialects or at least are able to use them. Making a long story short: The sentence refering to the two biggest North German cities is no good, since one can not definite decide which two are ment. I would rather try to find another phrasing, or  give more room for interpretation ... two of the biggest cities are ...--91.62.169.173 19:34, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: : The article deals with Lower Saxony and the influence of North Germany's largest metropolitan areas on the state's economy.   North Germany is clearly defined as comprising... (excerpt from the German Wikipedia):
I am sorry, but only accepted facts should be presented in this article. --Voyageur (kontak) 22:27, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

text: Well, there is no source that Hamburg and Bremen are the two biggest North German cities. For those, who have difficulties to translate the German quote you've listed: First it listes the North German coastal states, which is Berlin cleary not, since it's lacking access to the sea. Then it points out that the northern parts of North Rhine Westphalia, Saxoxy-Anhalt and Brandenburg are also considered as North German regions. It does not mention whether the last region, which surrounds Berlin includes or excludes Berlin.--91.62.169.168 08:27, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: : A list of North German cities is provided by North German Broadcasting Service NDR: Cities in North Germany - no mention of Berlin. YOU are required to provide a source for your statement. --Voyageur (kontak) 12:03, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: :: Hello Voyageur, the link you placed leads to map of places of tourist interest in the broadcasting area of the NDR TV and radio station. This broadcasting area can not be equated with the geographic term of North Germany. Not even Bremen ist part of this broadcasting area, since it has it's own broadcasting service (Radio Bremen). North Germany has a much longer and complex history than those of the radio stations.--91.62.170.14 12:48, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::: I know, it's is no source, but for a first idea, please also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Germany Why not just leaving the point with two biggest cities (?) - instead point out that Lower Saxony is connected with the metropolitan areas of Bremen and Hamburg --91.62.170.14 13:04, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::Offenbar werden Hamburg, Bremen und Hannover sowohl in Deutschland als auch im Ausland allgemein als die drei größten Städte in Norddeutschland angesehen - vor allem, weil der Begriff Norddeutschland geschichtlich und kulturell eindeutig auf die heutigen Bundesländer Schleswig-Holstein, Hamburg, Bremen, Niedersachsen und Mecklenburg-Vorpommern eingeengt werden kann. Die deutsche Wikipedia präsentiert Bremen ebenfalls als "zweitgrößte Stadt Norddeutschlands".

text: ::::Dass sich so mancher Berliner gerne über die Gleichsetzung mit alten Kaufmannsstädten wie Hamburg und Bremen "aufgewertet" sehen möchte, ist verständlich - aber außer der nordöstlichen geografischen Lage der Stadt Berlin sehe ich keinerlei Gemeinsamkeiten zwischen dem Norden und der Hauptstadt. --Voyageur (kontak) 13:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
replies: text: ::::::Well, as I pointed out above, the terms North Germany and North German vary according to the context and have a much longer tradition than the federal states which now exist somewhat 60 or 20 years. Those federal states are made for administrative reasons and not to reflect a certain geographical unit. Therefore the the southern regions of Lower Saxony are part of the Central German Uplands - while the northern regions of Saxony-Anhalt and Brandenburg with their extensive flatlands belongs to North Germany. What makes you think Berlin would be less North German than for example Hannover?! Situated in the same North German Lowlands, having traditionally a Low German dialect, being morely protestant, having a number of brick gothic buildings, etc. - who wants to judge about a significant difference?! Modern marketing strategists favor that idea that there is one metropolis which stands for one region and in this way they promote this idea: Cologne stands for the West, Hamburg for the North, Berlin for the East and Munich for the South. Though reality is sometimes just not a nice, graphic pie chart.--91.62.170.14 22:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
thread_title:  Berlyn