Not sure I agree with you on this one @heathd - I agree that default scopes are bad and should be avoided, but I think an order clause on an association is a different kettle of fish altogether. In this instance, I can't think of any circumstances where we wouldn't want a groups documents/editions returned in the correct order. Or to put it another way: I can't think of any circumstances where getting them ordered will be a problem. Default scopes that limit what is returned based on some attribute are where you tend to see problems.