# Talk:Philip Smith (criminal)

Initial statement section, para 2: "... claimed they were later separated". This wording implies that something or someone had separated them. The source is behind a paywall. What was his exact claim? --Stfg (talk) 12:20, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Their friend was thrown out of the Kerryman at some point during the evening. I've copied the following exerpt from the Birmingham Evening Mail article.
In less than an hour Smith had presented himself at the station and given a short statement, mixing half-truths and blatant lies in a crude attempt to cover his tracks. This the time Smith ever gave police anything resembling an explanation. He later repeated it to West Mercia officers, but then refused to comment further in police interviews. He told how he had been in the Rainbow pub with Mrs Corcoran and a male friend of hers and they had left to go to the Kerryman pub in Digbeth. This was true. Smith also stuck loosely to the facts when he described how the friend was thrown out of the Kerryman, but chillingly twisted the truth once that key witness was out of the frame. He said: 'At about 1.50am we left the Kerryman and went to a nightclub called Monte's. I parked my car and we walked across to the nightclub. We were seated next to the bar and Rosie had a vodka and orange. After 30 minutes Rosie asked me to go up and dance.
That's very helpful, thanks. I've rephrased to make clear is was the kicking-out that separated them. --Stfg (talk) 14:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Evidence and murder charge section: the last paragraph says that Smith was charged with the Corcoran murder on 17 November, then arrested for the other two murders on 28 November. Since it's quite surprising that someone charged with a murder on one day could be at large to be arrested 11 days later, and the sources are behind paywalls, could these facts be checked, please? --Stfg (talk) 12:44, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Another paywall source I'm afraid, but this confirms he was remanded in custody following a court appearance on 18 November. Birmingham Mail. Paul MacDermott (talk) 13:33, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, that's what one would expect. So on the 28th, presumably he was still in custody, so couldn't be arrested again. What really happened on the 28th? Was it just that he was charged with the other two, rather than being arrested for them? P.S. I'll keep this watchlisted now, in case anything arises on the way to GA. Good luck with that. --Stfg (talk) 14:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks again for your work on this, and for your good wishes. I'll put it forward once the PR is archived. The Evening Mail article does mention him being arrested on 28 November then interviewed regarding the other two murders, but I guess what they probably mean is that he was taken back into police custody from prison. Here's the relevant paragraph anyway. Paul MacDermott (talk) 14:22, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Tuesday November 28: Smith arrested by West Midlands police and interviewed in connection with the murders of Jodie Hyde and Carol Jordan.


### Removed paragraph
I've removed the follwing paragraph from the Trial and sentence section:

Following the trial, Sir Edward Crew paid tribute to the work of the officers on the murder investigation team: "I would like to record my thanks to all those involved in this inquiry and hope that its success in putting an evil and dangerous man behind bars for life will bring some comfort to the victims' families."<ref name=BBC-2001-07-18/>
This kind of thing is found in newspaper reporting, but it doesn't really convey information for encyclopedic purposes. --Stfg (talk) 13:13, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Philip Smith (criminal)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Ceradon (talk · contribs) 00:11, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Please correct the issues below. ceradon  talkcontribs 09:49, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


#### Background
The family had a deprived upbringing, made worse when Smith's father was injured in a motoring accident. (First paragraph, line four.) Instead of saying: "The family had a deprived upbringing", you might want to describe why that was so. Otherwise, just remove it. I don't think that could be described as fact. That should be a judgement call on the part of the reader, and not the writer.
Thanks for reviewing this. I believe that sentence could have been my interpretation. The Evening Mail article says, "Times were hard in the poverty-stricken Coney Hill Estate where he grew up and the family's lives were made tougher when their father, Harry, was severely injured in a road accident." I guess I could say something like, "The family had a [limited or modest] income, made worse when Smith's father was injured in a motoring accident." Let me know what you think anyway. Paul MacDermott (talk) 13:55, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
"The family had a modest income, made worse when Smith's father was injured in a motoring accident." sounds good.
Slightly rephrased as "The family had a modest income, and their situation became worse when Smith's father was injured in a motoring accident.", because it's unclear whether the income itself was made worse. --Stfg (talk) 10:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
He became well-known locally and was a regular patron of the Shamrock Cafe on Stratford Road and of the Rainbow pub in Digbeth, where he was employed on a casual basis as an odd job man and served as an unofficial taxi driver for drinkers. (Second paragraph, lines nine an ten.) - an "odd job man"? Please consider rewording.
"odd job man" is recognised by both Chambers and OED (with various hyphenations) "odd-jobber" also exists, but I think is less common in the UK. Do you have a preference? --Stfg (talk) 10:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
I'd prefer "odd-jobber". ceradon  talkcontribs 10:37, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Done. --Stfg (talk) 10:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Other than that: No problems found.


#### Murder spree
On 8 November 2000 Smith met 21-year-old Jodie Hyde, a recovering butane gas addict from Alum Rock, Birmingham, at the Rainbow public house, and they were seen leaving together. → On 8 November 2000, Smith met 21-year-old Jodie Hyde, a recovering butane gas addict from Alum Rock, Birmingham, at the Rainbow public house, and they were seen leaving together. (Fist paragraph, lines one and two.) You forgot a comma there.
Actually, comma is now optional in that construction, and is often omitted in British English (sometimes also in US). I've put one in, however. --Stfg (talk) 10:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Fearing that he would be caught, Smith moved her to another location, where he beat her to death with such ferocity that dental records were required to identify her. (Third paragraph, line two and three.) Consider rewording this to: "and beat her to the extent that dental records were required to identify her corpse." My reason: "where he beat her to death with such ferocity that dental records were required to identify her." Said level of ferocity should be something that is determined by the reader.
OK. I prefer "so much that" of "to the extent that". Is that OK? --Stfg (talk) 10:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
No problem. ceradon  talkcontribs 10:37, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


#### Trial and sentence
When Smith returned to the witness stand he said he wished to speak to his barrister. Presiding judge Mrs Justice Rafferty told him that he must answer questions, to which Smith replied: "I want to change my plea. I'm fed up with this. I want to change my plea." (Second sentence, lines two, three and four.) Several grammatical mistakes were made: When Smith returned to the witness stand, he said he wished to speak to his barrister. Presiding judge Justice Rafferty told him that he must answer questions, to which Smith replied: "I want to change my plea. I'm fed up with this. I want to change my plea."
Question: Is the judge's name "Justice Rafferty"? If not, please add her full name. Also, there is no need to place any titles next to her name.
It's a title, not a name. I've removed it. I'll message your talkpage about these commas, but have inserted that one. --Stfg (talk) 10:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


#### Further inquiries
In early 2001 investigators asked the Irish authorities for a fresh post mortem, - Forgot a comma after "In early 2001", and please consider changing fresh to new. This could also be done in the last sentence of the article.
Done. ("further" in the last sentence) --Stfg (talk) 10:32, 27 July 2012 (UTC)


#### References
I'm going to assume good faith on the subscription based references. Other references seem to check out.


#### Images
Everything good there.

Would it be possible for someone to add the minimum term he received? It doesn't seem to be on this page and it's unclear if he is even still imprisoned or has been released, or whether there's even a possibility of release for him. Frazerrex (talk) 09:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)