# Talk:Red team

I was surprised to see no mention of the devil's advocate, who performed a similar "contrary" or "opponent" function for many centuries before red teams were a thing.  Is the omission deliberate?  For example, it is where the introduction to Micah Zenko's book starts. Theramin (talk) 23:55, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey there. I wouldn't object if someone wanted to work devil's advocate into the history section. Zenko page 10 does say The office of the Devil’s Advocate was the first established and routine use of “red teaming.” I'm not sure how much I agree with this idea of inventing the concept of red teaming in the 1900s, then going back in history and labeling things as red teaming though. That's what this quote does and that seems like a weak way to connect things. Red team to me has very specific and modern meanings. Hope this helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:29, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

The United States Transportation Security Administration has used red teaming in the past. An analysis of some red team operations discovered that undercover agents were able to fool Transportation Security Officers and bring weapons, drugs, or explosives through security at some major airports at least 70% of the time in 2017, and 95% of the time in 2015.

The Daily Signal is a highly partisan, dubiously reliable source. Is it needed, or can the statement be sourced entirely to the L.A. Times? If not, is there some other source that could be used instead? {{u|Sdkb}} talk 04:48, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

 Fixed. Thanks for spotting that. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:12, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Copying here so I don't forget. Some ideas on how to further improve the article: work in more of the Further reading sources, and lower the HOW TO feeling of the Infiltration section. And there may still be a few MOS:BADITALICS here and there. –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:50, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

How is "Talamantes, Jeremiah (2019). Physical Red Team Operations. Hexcode Publishing" a RS?

Google offers nothing on the publisher (barely 50 hits). But all the four books from the house, sold across different ecommerce websites, have one thing in common - authored by Jeremiah Talamantes! So, the book is self-published.
This book does not appear to be in any library of repute, acc. to Worldcat.
Going by Linkedin, Jeremiah Talamantes received his masters from an online university but appears to have decent industry experience. However, there is nothing that demonstrates either academics or MSM consider him to be some kind of an expert in the field of cybersecurity. So, WP:SPS appears to be not met with.
TrangaBellam (talk) 20:41, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

I can go on making similar claims about "Rehberger, Johann (2020). Cybersecurity Attacks – Red Team Strategies. Packt Publishing" but that won't be needed. Starting reassessment in T minus 72h, pending nominator/reviewer comments to my observation on Talamantes (2019).
Btw, Novem, you might feel that I am targeting you — for the EFN episode — but it is not the case; I came across the GA badge on your u/p and started reading the article just because I found the concept (and, indeed, your writeup) interesting. Fwiw, every single GAR, I have done, is singularly focussed on the (poor) quality of sources. TrangaBellam (talk) 20:48, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Hey there. No problem about the targeting. Fixing the article and helping me learn for future articles is the important thing. Do you have concerns about any of the other major sources, such as the books by Zenko, Hoffman, and Rehberger? Feel free to call out anything you see. Let's get it fixed. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:54, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
To keep this as a GA, I need Talamantes and Rehberger out; the remainder of the sources, I take no concern with, as of now. TrangaBellam (talk) 20:58, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Go ahead and GAR it. I won't be able to replace those sources in 72 hours, since they're like two thirds the article. I'd rather start the GAR and get confirmation from others that those sources are unusable. I need to hear it from some other people before I take an axe to tens of hours of my work. –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:03, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Sure, we can go RSN before opening the GAR; give me a day :) TrangaBellam (talk) 21:19, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

I added:

Bogdan Dzakovic - FAA whistleblower and member of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity
Ironcurtain2 (talk) 14:26, 12 June 2024 (UTC)