# Talk:Penmon

Assessed for Wales Project as Low importance (This is where most of the village and small town articles are) and Class B (Article covers many facets of the village, has nice photos and very well referenced so I think warrants B class). Things to consider might be... placement of photos, infobox, external links and further reading sections(if possible) and rewording some of the paragraphs (i.e. the tunnel bit isn't quite right!). But well done Casmith_789 . --Cynnydd 08:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The culture section is too short. Maybe add info about local sports, theatres, museums etc.
Sections on transport links, climate, local government and the local economy may be needed.
The history section is far too brief.
Epbr123 10:36, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

There is not too much culture in Penmon, apart from the places in Penmon. Does the juggling with the headers satisfy the need for a longer culture section (if not, please help!) -- Casmith_789 (talk) 15:29, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Expanded history section, is it enough? -- Casmith_789 (talk) 07:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Could any more about the recent history be added? Is it possible to expand the Angelina Jolie sentence; like which part of the village appeared in the film and why the village may have been chosen for the setting? Epbr123 00:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
It would probably be best to put the Angelina Jolie section into a subsection called 'Popular culture' at the end of the Culture section. Epbr123 15:44, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Done! -- Casmith_789 (talk) 15:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
(The second part of what you asked for) -- Casmith_789 (talk) 15:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
See here for what WikiProject Cities recommends being included in each village/town/city article. Epbr123 16:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Penmon is not a 'town' and never has been. I've changed the article and category accordingly. In fact even describing it as a "village" is going a bit too far. Penmon was a medieval tref (township) but that meant a small rural community. I also have my doubts about it being "established in the 6th century" (no citation). The hermit cell of St Seiriol is reputed to have been established there at that time but there are no contempory historical records for that period at Penmon - it's way too early. This article as it stands is about the parish of Penmon. The community of Penmon itself is the smallest of several small scattered rural communities in that parish / geographical area. Enaidmawr 00:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou for your contributions on this article; please help it to become a good article, if you know about anything that is not on here. Also, thankyou for picking up on the error. -- Casmith_789 (talk) 15:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for nominating this article as one that may meet the Good Article Criteria.
The article contains interesting material about the village/township however as you will see I have failed this article at this time.  
I prefer to give as reasonable amount of feedback as is possible in the case of on-hold and failed nominations.  Please do not take the failure too badly – the article is on its way and just needs to gain a bit of serious concentration throughout to reach the stage of a new nomination.  Can I suggest that you look at Whitstable as an article recently passed GA from which you can get some good ideas.
I normally also suggest that as each adjustment is made, that editors place the template {{done}} after each part that is completed as this will provide all editors with a guide of what is completed in this fashion. Done 

There are clear WP:MOS errors in the document – for example look at the heading Popular Culture which is both stepped up to an incorrect level and incorrect as per capitalisation.   Done but are there others? - the MOS is a big document, and not everything will be as "clear" to those who aren't familiar with it.
Please remove the spaces between things like "promontory") and [2] in this sentence (The name comes from the Welsh word "pen" (which can mean "head", "end" or "promontory") [2] and) – all inline citations should come immediately after the word or punctuation. – for example here too (The scattered medieval township grew up around its monastery, set up by St. Seiriol. [3])  Done
Grammar is incorrect at this part of the sentence (and Penmon became a Augustinian priory) – should be ‘an’, and the comma after this part of a following sentence is not required (and, surviving).  Done
Check wikilinks throughout article – for example ''[[dissolved]]'' does not link directly to the word/area/point the article is attempting to make.  Done
Link or explain words such as: priory; dovecote; mill-stone; limestone; marble; and many others that relate directly to the area of Penmon.  Done
Inline citations required at the first four sentences of the section titled Demographics.  In general this area needs further expansion also.  Done
One sentence paragraphs in a Good Article are generally not expected.  For example the sentences under the headings Places of interest; Beach; and Popular Culture all need expanding.  Indeed the whole of this section needs to be expanded and in parts rewritten – for example sentences such as (Celtic churches in the 6th century were usually associated with a well, and as this was an early Welsh township then it did not break the tradition) are a little choppy and not really encyclopaedic.  There are others throughout.  Done
Please continue to improve the article – as I say above it will reach GA level if you take the time to pursue your good work to date.  Cheers --VS talk 03:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Penmon, along with Snowdonia, was part of a film set in The Fever (2004), in which Angelina Jolie, most famous for her role as Lara Croft in Tomb Raider, was starring. The region represented an Eastern Europe setting but with a London-based production company.
I have removed this "Popular culture" section from the article for now as it seemed to be holding back the push for GA status.  If it can be expanded, add it back.  Bencherlite 17:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I have endeavoured to address the helpful comments of the reviewer, but any further improvements are welcome, as I'm not confident that I've corrected all the problems! Bencherlite 19:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind comments on my talk page. MOS is not as important at GA as it is for FA but problems such as double capitalisation as in Popular Culture, heading placement and sentence constructions - that I referred to later in the review were significant enough to prevent GA at that time. Having looked at the edits since my review, you and your wiki-colleagues appear to have done a great job (inline citations have increased dramatically).  I would say that if there is some good prose that can be created relating W Somerset Maugham (and Angelina Jolie) to Penmon put it in because it humanizes any article about a place.  But if you do put in as (say) Part 4 ==Popular culture==. Even if you don't it is very close and perhaps even ready to being renominated - I would say one final obligatory proof read at the very least.--VS talk 22:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Great! (Note to others: the Somerset Maugham reference was because of this (item 8)! So, enthused afresh, I've found a couple of extra references for the film and so will add it back.  Bencherlite 00:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Should this be under the category 'Lighthouses in Wales'? The place is not really a lighthouse, so I think this should be changed back. -- Casmith_789 (talk) 16:39, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Penmon is included in the list of Lighthouses in Wales, so it would only seem fair to have Penmon categorised as such as it is the closest (inhabitated) location to the lighthouse.  The lighthouse is closer to Puffin Island, of course, but if it's known as Penmon lighthouse... Bencherlite 17:13, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The article looks very good. Just a few minor fixes needed though:

This needs a citation - "There are many fossils around the area, especially brachiopods, and these range in size from very small (7 millimetres) to quite large (15 centimetres)."  Done reworded section, taking out measurements, unless/until better source for the information is found.  Added another sentence or two about Penmon marble, with reference. Bencherlite 19:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
The geology section may be better as a subsection of geography  Not done.  Not convinced that many geologists would agree that geology is a sub-branch of geography. Have removed geography heading and stepped up "Climate" from level 3 to level 2 heading instead. Bencherlite 19:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't think the words "stone" and "television" need wikilinking.  Done Bencherlite 19:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
The word "erosion" doesn't need wikilinking twice in the Geology section  Done Bencherlite 19:17, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Let me know when these are fixed or if you disagree with any. Epbr123 18:32, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Pass! Well done. Epbr123 19:34, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article, but if known, please add the author, publisher, publishing date and access date to each reference. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 15:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I'm a contributor to the WP:UKCITIES standard (a kind of manual of style/ layout guideline for British settlements) looking at how it is translating to Welsh settlements. Penmon is actually Wales's only GA settlement article, and in the absence of any FA articles, it's leading example! Going forwards with this article, would it be possible for the article to adopt some of the recommendations made at UKCITIES, and perhaps get back to me if there are any issues with regards to Welsh specific issues? I think UKCITIES would help take this article towards FA anyway. -- Jza84 · (talk) 16:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

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