# Talk:Opawa

@user:Alexeyevitch This follows discussion on the Christchurch talk page yesterday...
This should give you an idea of a notable feature of Hanson Park, the Opawa Loop and flooding problems of the Heathcote. It is not a proper secondary source but it is good enough for now. I suggest look at similar sources to get a better overview of the history of Opawa and the issues that make it what it is today. There is more to Opawa than a few listed buildings. There are also notable buildings that are not listed. Being listed is not an exclusive mark of notability. This source will also be useful for other parts of the Heathcote such as in the Beckenham Loop that still has major flooding issues. It will also be useful for a special section in the article about the river, if one doesn't exist, and for an article on Christchurch land fill sites. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 10:10, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, if there are more notable buildings plz provide suggestions about the listed houses. Need a new image in the infobox, ideally a high-res image of the main retail area (other articles tend to do this). This is a good history book about the suburb but it is in-library use only. Also this article needs to be engaing to (especially to international readers), it doesn't matter how boring and ordinary Opawa may appear on the surface, the WP article should be interesting/engaging to readers. Thx. Alexeyevitch(talk) 10:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
If the link doesn't work go to Wikilibrary or elsewhere and search Oldfield, Isobel..The Hansen Park legacy. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 11:06, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
Ok. Alexeyevitch(talk) 11:30, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@user:Alexeyevitch
This is not about your fallback position of "the official name is not its common name" Maybe this rule needs to be ammended. 
This sentence "The Māori name for the area is "Ōpāwaho", it is also the name of the Ōpāwaho / Heathcote River" does not make sense unless the river is named as the linked article

I will copy a bit of txt that Roger said a few days ago: "Please note the link to WP rules provided. The name to use is the commonly used and understood name by English speakers, as in the link provided. The official name of a place is not the name to use. If they are the same that is coincidental. I encourage you to create a user name and profile, it will help establish credibility." It is also discouraged to add Māori (or any other non-English) translations to articles which don't really need them... it fluffs up the article and might make it difficult to understand to non-NZ readers (e.g someone from HK). Aoraki / Mount Cook is obviously an excpetion to this. Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:14, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
Thank you, I (usually) enjoy being quoted. The IP/Outis has illustrated just one of the problems caused by the decision of some NZ editors to try to accomodate the recent politically based name changes of NZGB - it doesn't work (and has caused countless hours of wasted time discussing the issue.) The simplest approach is to use the established names and mention the NZGB official name in the first sentence. The new  official name should only be used if it has become established, which will rarely be the case. Contemporary official sources should not be used because they are not independent, which in practice means we will have to decide on a case by case basis for the very few names that ever do become borderline. Regarding the problems that arise from trying to placate the PC people, the confusion that arises from calling Opawa and the Heathcote River anything other than Opawa and the Heathcote is an obvious case in point. It won't be too long before use of these new names will, in some way, be restricted in law to apply common sense (much like the use of the new incomprehensible names of Crown Entities is being restricted). But, to stay on topic, yes, the name to use here and everywhere in Wikipedia is the commonly used and understood name, unless a specific situation requires otherwise. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

How is this supported? "The railways had local significance, they stimulated settlement beyond the confines of the "original suburbs".
How do you get from the first sentence to the second? "In Opawa, residents had frequent trains to Christchurch passing daily through the district. When compared with the other modes of transportation, train travel was not convenient or simple."  There are multiple trains daily but not convenient or simple? Where's the explainer?
This sentence seems a bit backwards: "The Main South Line used to provide one of Christchurch's largest industries the Addington Railway Workshops, in Addington"  The Line is not the employer. New Zealand Railways was.
Long, could do with a break: "The primary road supporting the transportion in the area is State Highway 76 (Brougham Street) which traverses from the north through the suburb, also through Sydenham and Brougham Street, going thoroughfare the suburbs of Hillsborough and Opawa, then Port Hills Road connecting with Tunnel Road to pass through the Lyttelton road tunnel at Heathcote Valley."
Industrialism is the economic system: not the correct use in this sentence "who wished to leave Woolston's industrialism". Probably better to write "people who wished to leave the industrial areas of Woolston" or something else.
Probably better to write "According to [authors name] Opawa was Christchurch's first high society suburb". Would be better to reference the book, rather than use a very light feature written for the property pages in a local newspaper. Also why is the book not used/referenced (Opawa - the Outpost on the Banks of the Heathcote/Noel Gillespie); it's a more recent publication than the others referenced.

Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 05:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

1. Because the book is in-library use only.
2. Implementing these suggestions yourself is good.
3. This article is written for all, not just New Zealanders. A reader would expect this content.
4. The source said business men but it is better written in gender-neutral terms.
5. How did you get access to the "High society in Opawa" reference? Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:14, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
1. Because the book is in-library use only.
There are borrowing copies.
2. Implementing these suggestions yourself is good.
When I do any of these you revert them. Also, write better.
3. This article is written for all not just New Zealanders. A reader would expect this content.
What does this refer to?
5. How did you get access to the "High society in Opawa" reference?
Why did you link to an article if you didn't read it?
Also, where is 4. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
4 is there now. And I don't know what you are referring to. However, it is most likely that the people in business would have been men. Anyway I was talking about the desire to label everything with a "class", someone in business is not necessarily middle class. That's an assumption. You are better to use neutral language. Workers, factory workers not working class. Business owners, professionals, white collar workers, not middle class.   Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
At present time... there are not. I'm a local here and I asked the librarian and they said the book was in-library use (I didn't have my laptop with me at the time so it was pointless)
Also, I agree back in the day the people in the business were men. As I stated earlier: it is more gender-neutral to simply say "business people".
I stated that this is written for everyone. It is difficult for readers to read NZ articles when they are entirely written from a NZ prespective.
I'm also curious how you got access to the "High society in Opawa" reference? Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
High society: in the article you cited. Unsure where you are but here in Christchurch our libraries have borrowing copies of the book, and library pc's to look up that information.  Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 07:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
I think you are mistaken here. I cited a press article about the book via ProQuest. Please CITE what page you got this from in the book and I will be able to confirm whether this is true or not once I aquire it.
I'm literally a local here... I'm skeptical if you are from here or not but it seems unlikely. Your username mentions Golden Bay. Alexeyevitch(talk) 07:44, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
Did you read that article? You should read articles if you are citing them. That's a direct line from the article which is talking to the author of the book. Why are you citing references when you haven't read the content?
I'm not sure that you are a local as you don't seem to have access to Christchurch libraries.   Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 08:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
I'm too skeptical about this. If your main goal is to irritate and regularly follow me around then I simply don't want to be affiliated with you. I suggest trialing to edit other articles and see if you enjoy them rather than just sticking to this topic. If you have any other accounts you must disclose them. Alexeyevitch(talk) 08:32, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
I have edited the source on this as I think you are attempting to hide your sense of ownership of this article. Rather than editing the article or talking about the issues with it you have made comments taking the talk page off topic.  I have edited and explained, you have reverted; I made suggestions on the talk page, you have disputed. Wikipedia allows multiple people to edit -  Wikipedia:Ownership of content
Note also that you have made unnecessary comments on my talk page, not on topic, but simply because it seems you want to scare people away from articles you are editing. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 02:12, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
One option is to let this run its course and then re-establish an earlier version. Alexeyevitch, why not find another topic with other articles to edit, something about movies or fashion, for example. You have made around 800 edits on this one page alone since October last year with very few actually adding anything constructive. I'm trying to be helpful and repeat what I have said before - find another editor to sit with you and guide you through a contribution, showing you how and how not to edit pages, and tell you why. I have said before that editing a sentence ten times until you find your prefered wording should not be done. When I raised my concerns earlier I was shouted down by others, something that might well happen again, unfortunately. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 03:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Replying to R8R here. I said earlier: who will be the one doing this? If no one is interested than this plan won't work. Alexeyevitch(talk) 03:43, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
I know some American editors... but they would not be able to help since all of them have interests elsewhere on Wikipedia. R8R who else could "help" me? Alexeyevitch(talk) 03:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Sock puppting is a far worse thing... deleting your userpage when you haven't logged in for a while isn't normal thing for a new user to do. If you have other accounts than I highly suggest disclosing them. Alexeyevitch(talk) 03:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
I really do not understand the level of animosity on display here towards @Alexeyevitch. As far as I can tell from a quick review of their recent changes, this article has been substantially improved by them. David Palmer//cloventt (talk) 04:05, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
There is no animosity from me at all. I'm just commenting on what I see. Just look above, there is a list of sentences that have to be re-arranged or alterted, as stated by another editor, not me. All, yes all, of the article will have to be checked for similar problems. I cannot understand why you think it is acceptable to have one editor spend eight months adding 800 edits to an article that can only ever be a fairly small article (a 160 year old suburb in a 180 year old city). I did not mean removing everything that's been added - I meant going back to an earlier version and then adding to it what is of value in the current version. That would be quicker than working through what is there now and altering it. Please don't forget this applies to many articles, not just Opawa. Alexeyevitch, I have no personal grievance towards you, I'm just making what I think is a helpful suggestion - move to another subject and take advantage of what you have learned from all your work on Christchurch suburbs. I've made a couple of suggestions online which you are ignoring, such as write a draft offline first before posting online, and then leave it alone. And remember, I know nothing about you except you are American, which really doesn't make any difference to anything.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Roger 8 Roger (talk • contribs) 04:28, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
I suggest rewording it if there is a problem with it. I am not sure who will be the one reviewing the drafts... I deny or accept who will be the one revewing it (since this is completely a sugestion). There are numerous reasons why Opawa is notable and I don't agree with removing content about notable landmarks or almost anything (if it's good in an encyclopedia). Alexeyevitch(talk) 04:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
@Roger 8 Roger if you have suggestions plz list them elsewhere (not in this discussion) I will apply them in to the article. Alexeyevitch(talk) 05:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
If you have issues with the prose, edit the prose to fix the issues. This is the nature of a collaborative encyclopaedia. Posting a list of complaints to the talk page does not seem productive to me.
This article has been substantially expanded from a Start-class (borderline stub really) to at least a B-class in the space of under a month. As far as I can see, they are the only one responsible for this dramatic improvement. Quibbling over their choice of sentence structure does nothing productive, especially when it is something any of us can fix. David Palmer//cloventt (talk) 05:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
I'll prioritize using secondary sources rather than entirely using CCC sources. That is good. Alexeyevitch(talk) 05:11, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure who you are responding to @Cloventt
If you read what I wrote you will see that I posted the sentence corrections on the talk page because Alexeyevitch was consistently either reverting or editing any changes despite explanations (and not just edits I was making, other editors as well). I also suggested using a more modern book (2007 as opposed to Morrison's 1940s history), and changed a quote from an article. If you look at the replies from Alexeyevitch you can see they attacked the suggestions rather than looking at it as an opportunity to improve the article and the writing.
The other thing here is Alexeyevitch's hostility and attacks: e.g. comments such as "following me around", "disclose accounts","sock puppet". Quite a few examples on this page. This seems designed to shut down other editors. And this follows their comment on my talk page on 20 June:
"while they're edits so far have not been disruptive (actually pretty good) I found the editing patern a bit "odd" and I am a little bit skeptical about this. I am hoping this user does not have any previous accounts than they should disclose it"
and comments like this :"Do you have any other accounts? If so, you must disclose them." when reverting edits I have made (4 July). And unwarranted comments on my choice to clear my user page.
I find this behaviour odd and hostile. I will continue to edit this and other articles I am interested in.
Alexeyevitch may have edited this page over time but they do not own it Wikipedia:Ownership of content and I can see from interactions on other pages that this is an issue they struggle with. Improving articles means accepting edits particularly when an editor seems to struggle with sentence construction, and they are not reading articles they have cited in the body of the article. How does this behaviour make this a reliable source? Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Could you  also potentially use the 2007 book or nah? You claim to be local here... surely you could simply go to a local library and have a look at it. Improving the article is good. And I suggest reading it for yourself. Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Kind of missed the point with this comment @Alexeyevitch but displayed a good example of the general hostility you have towards other editors. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Replying to GBB here. I don't see the need for promoting punitive actions instead of building a high-quality encyclopedia. It's good to add content on some of he local articles. And focus on improvements not rules. (And see WP:Focus on content) But it is good if they do the improving the articles instead of suggesting it on the talk page. Please continue building the high-quality encyclopedia. I look foward to seeing your contributions to these "local" articles. Alexeyevitch(talk) 07:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Hopefully there is still room to collaborate and work together in good faith.
@Alexeyevitch would you be willing to briefly step back from this page and allow this user to copyedit the article for us? The article would benefit from their help on the way to reaching GA quality in my opinion. David Palmer//cloventt (talk) 07:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, it would be good to see some more local editors like GBB or R8R make some improvements here. Alexeyevitch(talk) 07:18, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@Cloventt@Roger 8 Roger@JNZ@Schwede66

1

2

3

4

What image looks best (for now)? Alexeyevitch(talk) 07:34, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
I would say number 4.
I’ve had a tough time getting representative and good-looking photos of suburbs. For Redwood I went and got photos of local landmarks with plenty of green in them. I can’t think of any better strategy than photos of roads though.
Lots of overhead powerlines in Opawa huh. David Palmer//cloventt (talk) 07:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. I will wait a bit longer to see what other editors think of the images. I think a photo of the main road is good for any suburb. Alexeyevitch(talk) 07:49, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Some comments...
Some editorial knowledge of a suburb helps. For a photo, there is no obvious spot in Opawa, it is a bit disjointed. Opawa doesn't really have a shopping area - those photos are the closest to one there is, but that isn't much and it will not be used by much of the residents in Opawa. I would focus on the Opawa Loop south of Opawa Rd, including Risingdale and Cholmondeley Ave and St Mary's Church, all near the shops but they'd provide a better photo.
Alexeyevitch, you do not have to answer this and there is no hidden intent other than to better understand what is happening, but how old are you, approximately will do?
Are you sure there is nobody in the real world who can act as a guide? I assume you have met other edtors?Roger 8 Roger (talk) 12:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

1. I have changed the image to Reeves Rd. This is good for now.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by "other than to better understand what is happening" plz clarify, then I will answer.
3. I will respond to that question somewhere else, it's also not appropriate discussed here. I don't want people from elsewhere knowing.  Alexeyevitch(talk) 12:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

The GA criteria says that the article should cover the "main aspects" of the scope. The question of what is within “main aspects” for this article can be debated, but here are some suggestions for additional content.


### Amalgamation of Opawa riding with Christchurch City in 1916
The existing content about amalgamation could be expanded. Plus there are numerous online citations that could be added.
In 1915, it appears that Opawa was a “riding” of the Heathcote County, governed by the Heathcote County Council.(for a definition of riding, see: Riding_(division)) See: [1]
But in December that year, there was a vote for the Opawa riding to be amalgamated with Christchurch City. See: [2], [3], and 
[4]. The amalgamation came into force in October 1916. See: [5], [6],[7], and [8]. Some issues mentioned in the coverage of amalgamation include the responsibility for the costs of maintaining Opawa Road, and the development and integration of public utility services including electricity.


### Flooding from the Heathcote River
There have been repeated instances of flooding from the Heathcote River affecting Opawa and making the news. Here are some news reports, but it seems likely there will be many more:

20 August 1941 [9]
17 April 1962 [10]
13 April 1968 [11]
4 January 1980 [12]
@Alexeyevitch:. The Heathcote River is clearly an important feature of the geography of the suburb. I suggest including an image of the river. Fortunately, there is an excellent image here: c:File:Opawa Road bridge across Heathcote River, Christchurch, New Zealand 08.jpg. Marshelec (talk) 21:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
I have also found that there is a walking trail alongside the true left bank of the Heathcote River as it passes through Opawa. This might be worth a mention somewhere: [13]Marshelec (talk) 21:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


### Heritage-listed buildings
(in addition to those already mentioned in the article). Several have interesting history described in the sources, and could be added:

Girls Training Hostel (former) 90 Ensors Road, Opawa[14]
Springbank 290 Riverlaw Terrace, Opawa [15]
House, at 44 Opawa Road, Opawa [16]
House at 41 Opawa Road [17]  Note: no details on Heritage New Zealand, but it is described on by CCC here: [18] and by Stuff here: Roxburghe House at 41A & 41D Opawa Road: [19]
@Alexeyevitch: I have come across another heritage building that is within the notional boundary of Opawa. It is a historic house called Fifield, at 14 Hawford Road.[20]. I note that there is a Fifield Terrace running alongside the Heathcote River and assume that the name of the road is linked to the historic property (although it is not the name of the original owners). There is also a tiny Fifield Reserve [21]Marshelec (talk) 04:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your email. I wasn't able to respond since I was busy this afternoon - I will continue work on this article and will note your suggestions on an external document, then I will incorporate the content in to the article. There still is a bit more work to do.  I will be in touch if I need more help. Thank you. Alexeyevitch(talk) 04:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)


### Lost heritage
The Anglican Church of St Mark, built in 1865 (and one of Canterbury’s oldest landmarks) was destroyed by fire on 3 December 1949 [22] The article currently describes only the original church, not the fire or the rebuild.


### St Mark’s Church
The replacement St Mark’s church (and its chapel addition) appear to be notable. See: [23],[24][25]  and [26]


### 2011 Earthquake damage
A summary is needed of the damage sustained in the suburb in the Canterbury earthquakes. Searching on DigitalNZ.org, using just the search term Opawa, shows photos of damage to shops and in particular major damage to the Opawa Community Church. Unclear what happened to the church.  It appears some shops in Opawa Road were demolished and also the former Opawa library.  St Mark’s Church was damaged but apparently has been repaired.

@Alexeyevitch:. Update: Here is a good source about the rebuild of the Opawa Community Church, including re-cycling of the original roof structure. This is an interesting account, and worth summarising in the article.[27]. Marshelec (talk) 21:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


### Railway line
The Main South Line crosses the Heathcote River on the section through Opawa.[28]
On a related point, it would be best to move content about transport from the Geography section into a separate section.


### Community and sports facilities
The article could give some coverage of significant community and sports facilities in the suburb. These would include: 

Opawa Bowling Club (appears to be still functioning). Had 50th Jubilee in 1958: [29]  Notable for floodlighting installed in 1953 – said to be first floodlighting at a private tennis club in NZ. [30]
Opawa Lawn Tennis Club (also founded in 1908) [31]
The Alpine Ice Centre
_Marshelec (talk) 08:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you. I will (and maybe others) will start implementing these suggestions. I will be in touch if I need some more assistance. Alexeyevitch(talk) 09:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Apologies for the delay responding. I will avoid adding 290 Riverlaw Terrace and the Girls Training Hostel. Because the landmarks are not actually in Opawa. The Alpine Ice Centre is worth mentioning in the amenities section and it's also worth mentioning the cluster of shops in Waltham. Note: some of these shops categorize themselves as being apart of Opawa when they are actually just outside its boundaries.
Earthquake damage might need some expansion aswell.
I will continue implementing these suggestions and I think an amenities section will be good here... I will add this later today. Alexeyevitch(talk) 23:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


### The problem of suburb boundaries
@Alexeyevitch: I am aware that Christchurch currently has no formal definition of the boundary of suburbs, and as a result sources can vary in the name of the suburb they use for describing the location of a particular building or site. This is the case for the Alpine Ice Centre. Some sources such as Google Maps, show 495 Brougham Street, Christchurch as being in Opawa, but other sources say Waltham. I think it might be worthwhile to include a brief statement in the Geography section, perhaps along these lines: "Christchurch City currently has no formal definition of the boundaries of suburbs, and as a result there can be inconsistencies between sources in the suburb that is identified for a particular street location". Here is a citation to back this up: [32]. For signficant topics where there is inconsistency, you could perhaps say something like Opawa/Waltham (sources vary), or use a footnote to include the explanation above, if there are multiple instances. Marshelec (talk) 09:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Okay, will add it. Alexeyevitch(talk) 09:18, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
I think one reason for the contradictions is that man-made boundary lines change over times. In that area, the expansion of Brougham St in the 60's has created a clear assumed boundary, one that wasn't as clear in earlier years. I think of Opawa as south of that road and the industrial area to the north being in Waltham. The ice-rink area is further complicated by Ensors Rd creating another man-made boundary. I think sources saying it is in Opawa are likely to be older, before the widening of Brougham St. To me Alpine Ice is more linked to Shakespeare Rd and the shops and light industry where it connects with Brougham, all of which s definitely in Waltham. Even south of Brougham opposite Alpine Ice is IMO better described as Waltham or even St Martins than Opawa.  Roger 8 Roger (talk) 11:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
I think mentioning all of this content (incl. Maori content) is good for a international reader as per WP:RF  . We can also mention this content there aswell but at present time I would like this article to become a good chc suburb benchmark article. The shops and light industry in Waltham can be mentioned here (clearly it's an amenity). There is also 2 drinking establishments and a fish & chips shop in the cluster of shops which claim to be apart of Opawa. Alexeyevitch(talk) 11:46, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
@Marshelec & @Roger 8 Roger. I have expanded the EQ damage and added a bit more content. (see this external image of the old Opawa Library: [33]). The GA criteria says that the article should cover the "main aspects" of the scope. I think we are already at a point where it does but if others have other suggestions than it's good because more content could be added to the article. As a local here I think a reader from elsewhere would be pleasantly surprised to learn all the reasons why Opawa is notable (hopefully mentioned in the article. Incl. Maori content). Thx. Alexeyevitch(talk) 01:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
With regards to suburb boundary issues, I am inclined to agree that the Alpine Ice Centre should be described as being in Waltham, but it is marginal, because their own website says Opawa. This might be one good example of where the place could appear in both the Opawa and Waltham articles, with a brief explanatory note about suburb boundaries, perhaps using Template:Note.
With regards to coverage in this article, I still think some mention should be made of the Opawa Community Church, and the interesting story of the re-use of its original roof structure (see my note about this further up the talk page)
I also think that the history of the Heathcote River flooding some roads in Opawa is notable and should be mentioned - either under History or in Geography. See my note above. I am sure that there will be more news reports than the few I have listed.
Marshelec (talk) 02:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
LINZ have created a suburb and locality dataset to meet the demand for "something, anything" that can be used to assign a suburb (or locality) to any given grid reference - see info at https://www.linz.govt.nz/products-services/data/types-linz-data/suburbs-and-localities-data . Currently the LINZ definition is that area bounded by the Heathcote river, the Lyttelton rarilway and an erratic line roughly following and mostly west of Ensors Road. However a 1929 map of Christchurch https://geodatahub.library.auckland.ac.nz/public/maps/LINZ/NZMS/NZMS_016/jpg/NZMS016_Christchurch_6_1929_g1.jpg shows Opawa as being a much larger area which also includes much of what is now Waltham, which is not named on that map. Waltham is named on a map of 1951 https://geodatahub.library.auckland.ac.nz/public/maps/LINZ/NZMS/NZMS_017/jpg/NZMS017_Christchurch_1951.jpg but the park on Waltham Road is still called Opawa Park. This has changed to Waltham Park by 1954 https://geodatahub.library.auckland.ac.nz/public/maps/LINZ/NZMS/NZMS_017/jpg/NZMS017_Christchurch_1954.jpg and a quick count of mentions on Papers Past shows the two park names as having been interchangeable for many years, with Waltham Park becoming more popular by the late 1930s and Opawa Park practically disappearing during the early 1940s. Daveosaurus (talk) 11:13, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Nice maps of Christchurch. Alexeyevitch(talk) 11:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
I thoroughly recommend GeoDataHub if you're looking for good quality old maps of NZ. You need to be a bit familiar with how NZMS map sheets and series worked but once you've got that figured out you've got the whole country at your fingertips.Daveosaurus (talk) 11:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Bookmarked. It's similar to Canterbury Maps (which is openly licensed) - but that's only restricted to Canterbury. Alexeyevitch(talk) 11:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)


### Opawa Children's Library
There used to be a Children's library by the river that has long since gone. It was near the bridge near Butler St. It was small and a fairly basic structure but something of a community feature.

I found a couple of sources with content about a Children's Library in Opawa. It is not clear if these are actually referring to the same building. Can anyone clarify ? The photo in the Newsline piece clearly shows the river immediately behind.  See: Papers Past 1965 [34], and Newsline (CCC) Sep 2022 [35]._Marshelec (talk) 05:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Look what I found: HERITAGE ASSESSMENT – STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE, FORMER NEW BRIGHTON VOLUNTEER FIRE BRIGADE. SOCIAL HALL/ OPAWA CHILDREN’S LIBRARY AND SETTING -2 LOUISSON PLACE, CHRISTCHURCH  [36].  It has a draft watermark but perhaps it can still be cited ?. There is excellent content in this report. The date of the relocation from New Brighton to Opawa matches the complaint in the newspaper from the Paper's Past citation above. Fascinating that a temporary (and relocated) building lasted from 1965 to 2020 :) Marshelec (talk) 05:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Good find Marshelec. I will bookmark the link and use it for these types of purposes. Roger 8 Roger might be able to clarify. Alexeyevitch(talk) 06:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
@Alexeyevitch@Roger 8 Roger This is a great little story :). A part of a surplus building that was previously the New Brighton Fire Station, was relocated and repurposed as a "temporary" Opawa children's library in 1965. It stood the test of time, and the irony is that in the 2011 earthquake, the main library was badly damaged. Library services were down-scaled and then combined in the Children's library building - a "temporary" building that provided service for 55 years !! I have found a listing of a CCC cancelled request for tender for relocation of the building. Not 100% sure of the current status, but I think that children's library services are now finally integrated into the main Opawa library.Marshelec (talk) 06:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
I'll add some content on the children's library. It's significant for the community and its establishment date could be mentioned.
I've added an image (map) of Opawa in the 1890s. You can see the the suburb's main roads: Opawa Road and Ensors Road in the image and some of the 'large' sections. Pretty good and encyclopedic IMO. Alexeyevitch(talk) 07:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Excellent, thank you user:Marshelec, an interesting wee story - that is indeed the library. I'm surprised it lasted so long till 2020. I think that was because of its simple wooden structure with simple foundations - meaning there wasn't much that the earthquakes could damage. On this topic, childeren's libraries were a feature of Christchurch, and still are in some areas I think. There was one in St Martins too and also one in Upper Riccarton and I assume elsewhere as well. I'm not sure of their current status but I think they are being fased out due to being uneconomic, That is similar to small local swimming pools, including those in schools. There was one in Thorrington School for example that has now gone, and one at Rangi Ruru. Doubtless there were many others elsewhere. People may forget that after the earthquakes normal social facitities were gone - everything was destroyed or damaged or red stickered. There was an effort made to maintain as much of normal social life as possible - destroyed cafes were replaced by caravan cafes (still one in Sydenham) and the CCC tried to maintain a library service, with tepmorary libraries opening in places such as Linwood/Smith St and in the city - Manchester/Allen, and then in ?Petrborough. People now forget that for a long time normal social activity was severly compromised. Roger 8 Roger.   (talk) 13:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
].


### Hansen Park
Hansen Park is open space that occupies a significant portion of land in the southern part of Opawa, and warrants a mention in the article. For basic details see: [37]. The park was originally designated in the late 1950s on the site of a former rubbish dump [38], [39]. It was named after Dr D E Hansen, Patron of the Risingholme Centre.[40], [41], There was public controversy and opposition in 1963 when it was proposed that a new secondary school would be established on the site. There was another controversy in 1986 when it was proposed that the site be developed as a base for softball in Canterbury [42], [43]. Eventually a decision was reached in Nov 1987 to establish a softball centre at Cuthbert Green in Bromley instead [44].  Hansen Park has been used a temporary headquarters for mountain running events (Crater Rim Ultra in 2023) [45]. Also scheduled as the site for 2024 New Zealand Mountain Running Championships [46].  Hansen Park contains the clubrooms of the Port Hills Athletic Club [47]. There are two rugby fields and two football fields in the park.[48], [49]. In 2024, the park is being used for cricket, rugby and athletics, but also some other outdoor events.[50] I will see if I can find out anything more. Marshelec (talk) 05:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Y I have started to add content about this - more to do in the amenities section. Alexeyevitch(talk) 05:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

I didn't expect to find much in popular culture that mentions Opawa, but this shows how wrong you can be. There is a work: "The Opawa Affair". [51]. Perhaps there is more ?_Marshelec (talk) 06:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I note that the source from Te Ara says under an Opawa heading that a supermarket was irreparably damaged.[52] However, I believe they got this wrong. It seems that it was actually the St Martins New World supermarket that was damaged (and subsequently demolished and rebuilt). See: [53]. Marshelec (talk) 05:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Removed. Merged content to the St. Martins article. Alexeyevitch(talk) 05:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

I suggest that some coverage be included of the development of the section of State Highway 76 through Opawa. This is relevant for the article because it is a major road transport route along the north-western boundary of Opawa. It also required the purchase of many properties along the route through Opawa. The development of the Brougham Street expressway, and its extension into, and through Opawa took place over a several decades and was built in stages. The completion of the expressway effectively bypassed Opawa Road as the main route from the city to Lyttelton and the Heathcote Valley and took heavy traffic away from Opawa Road and Ferry Road.  (I note that the Brougham Street expressway was initially part of SH73, then later redesignated SH76 as part of the Christchurch Southern Motorway. I have not yet found a source about the dates of the change of highway designation or how this affects the section through Opawa). Here are some sources mentioning the development of the “Opawa expressway”:

Early proposal (1967) [54],
Controversy and legal challenges (1971) [55]
Illustration (1978) [56],
Mention (1986) [57]
Final proposal (seems to be what was built) (1988); [58]
I haven't yet found a source for the completion of SH76 through Opawa, but will keep looking. _Marshelec (talk) 23:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Schwede66:. Are you able to provide any insights or other references that would help briefly describe the construction and impacts of the motorway through Opawa. Even the date of completion would be useful ?Marshelec (talk) 00:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Ok, let me throw a few items into a Google folder. This link gives edit access. Schwede66 01:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Nice. BTW, Canterbury Maps is openly licensed (see this). Almost all imagery is CC BY 4.0. (or 3.0.) Alexeyevitch(talk) 10:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Y Alexeyevitch(talk) 01:09, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
Brougham Street was still SH73 in 2006 - according to its own article, SH76 was gazetted in 2012. I think the NZ Gazette is on line now which might be of help. Daveosaurus (talk) 11:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

The current statement Opawa is flood-prone suburb is too sweeping, and needs some review. There have been many instances of the Heathcote River flooding some streets and properties in Opawa, but large parts of the suburb are outside the flood hazard zone. I found this useful reference: [59] Zooming in to the Opawa area, it shows that the streets running alongside the Heathcote river, plus some other relatively small areas within the Opawa boundaries, are classified as being within the "flood management area". The majority of the suburb is not within the "flood management area". I also recommend reviewing the statement Initially Opawa was a low-lying area,... Other than ground level movements that occurred during the Christchurch earthquake, the level of the land has probably remained much the same. I doubt that any major civil works were undertaken to raise the level of the land. Instead, drainage works were probably undertaken in the area to make the land more suitable for building, but we would need citations for this. I will see what I can find out._Marshelec (talk) 02:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Opawa was a low-lying area  is what: Ogilvie 2017, p. 187 states and I have removed it from the lede because it read awkwardly. I will add/improve content about this today. This article would benefit from this content to help its way to reaching GA quality in my opinion. Alexeyevitch(talk) 02:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
All of Christchurch not on the Port Hills is low lying with certain pockets of land lower than the surrounding low land. The flooding problem is more to do with drainage, or lack of it.[60] The water table in winter in some areas can be just below the surface, meaning with any heavy rainfall the water has nowhere to go and sits above the surface (unless there is adequate drainage). I think the problem with the Heathcote, which floods in areas right along its length, not just in Opawa, is more one of poor drainage of the river rather than land being low lying. Not long ago the river was widened or deepened in some areas to facilitate drainage which had become even worse after the earthquakes due to land movement. Walk along the river, in Eastern Tce, or anywhere else, and you will see the older original houses raised and set back from the river, with large front gardens, to avoid flooding. As drainage improved those large areas of land were filled in by newer houses on the assumption they wouldn't be subject to flooding. This is a major topic for an article of its own. I think mention in a suburb article like Opawa or Beckenham should be kept short and simple but focus on poor drainage just as much as low lying land. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 03:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
@Roger 8 Roger Thanks, I agree that there is merit in a separate article about drainage in Christchurch, because it is of considerable importance to how the city developed. I had begun searching for sources about drainage, but got distracted, and only wrote brief content about early development of a pumped sewerage system. This source "Christchurch: Swamp to City" is very useful: [61], but a new article would need many more. I will try to get back to this. Or I would be happy to help out, if you are able to make a start._Marshelec (talk) 04:15, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
I will continue to edit this article and add a bit of content that Roger suggested, which will help it to reaching GA quality in my opinion. I also find this topic interesting. This YouTube video may be interesting to both of you: [62]. Alexeyevitch(talk) 04:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
 Done, added a summary of noted flooding events in the geography section. Alexeyevitch(talk) 08:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
Thanks _Marshelec, that is an excellent book by Wilson again. Some interesting photos and maps as well. Certainly the starting point of an article. Aynesley Tce on page 79. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:30, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Ok. I think it's on p. 76. Alexeyevitch(talk) 09:41, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Copied from my talk page - it fits better here..About yesterday's edits, this below might help. You should have someone explain it if you don't get it. About city suburbs, there is a natural limit to how much you can put into an article before you start adding unnecessary clutter. You seem to have done that for Opawa by putting in anything at all that has a vague connection with Opawa. Quality is not the same as quantity. You probably could halve the size and double the quality of the article.
My comments: Thank you for that change but, regarding only the first two sentences...
1/ Prior to 1916 implies the riding ended in 1916, (and is still not specific anyway - when prior to 1916? 1910? 1899?  Better is to start with "In 1915..." because that is the year in the source when this meeting happened. 
2/ The source does not say Opawa was a riding. Please read it again, carefully. Opawa was probably in a riding called the Opawa Riding, along with other settlements. That is all we can get from the source.  
3/ The source refers to the Heathcote County (a defined area which included the Opawa Riding) - it doesn't mention the Heathcote district (what is the Heathcote district anyway?)
4/ CCC was the employer of the electrical engineer, that is the only reference to CCC. What you have written is quite different.
5/ More generally, this has got almost nothing to do with the governance of Opawa, certainly not without more detail to put the Opawa Riding in context. If anything, this belongs somewhere else - about utilities or power supply - but you will still have to put it in context (ie more information) otherwise better to leave it out altogether. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)