# Talk:Spike Spiegel

Did anyone notice that in the last episodes (No 25 and 26) there are some symbols also in use in the Odin-myth?
Odin, like Spike, also had to sacrifice an eye to gain wisdom, and the constant appearing of black ravens seem to be both forboding as reminiscenting, as is with Odin's ravens (memory and thought).
Maybe that should find its way into this article?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.143.52.179 (talk) 06:42, March 6, 2007 (UTC)
That theory that Spike lost his eye during the massacre in which he faked his death does not fit.  Julia noticed Spike's eyes being two different colors, and Spike never saw her again between his "death" and the end of the series.  I'm cuttin' it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.81.84.210 (talk) 05:08, May 16, 2007 (UTC)
Spike didn't die. Because the script was decided to be written with apparent demise of Spike, someone hid the clue of his survival in the script. Indian speaks: "When a life is born, a new star appears. That is the guardian star, the star that warms this planet is someone's guardian star as well. The red star you see overhead, and the blue star in the horizon. And when a life ends, the star falls and disappears." When you look at the ending credits very closely you can see the blue star above the horizon aswell (first star coming into view), which continues to shine. The red star was probably the guardian star of Vicious.
On another note, the red star was probably Mars and blue one Venus. It would be pretty devastating for Cowboy Bebop universe if the Mars had vanished as it seems to be one of the most important planets. :) Suva 16:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Possible, seeing as Spike is always wearing that blue suit.  The song at the end ("Blue") still has me convinced he died, however.  Also, a more accurate translation of Spike's last line to  Vicious ("Julia's dead. Let's finish it now.") is "let's end it all" (I watched the English dub with a fansub on as well, I'll try to figure out who's sub it was) I figured that they were agreeing to both kill each other, as they slide each other's weapons back to one another.
Something else I just noticed, when he falls (after killing Vicious) the same white birds fly past as Julia dies are shown flying overhead.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonebox (talk • contribs) 09:35, 17 January 2009 (UTC) 

Something I thought I'd throw in here, speaking of the birds....
I don't know about adding print sources as references to articles.  I haven't added mine, but maybe I should.
I have the Anime Guides for the series (you can get them at http://japanimation.com). In book 6, I was looking through the art files and saw these little nuggets:
pg 63, "Cowboy Report, Part I - Art Board Introduction (3). Showed numerous art boards that were drawn to for the final episodes. There were excerpts from an interview with art director Jun'ichi Higashi, where he says: "For the last scene, when Spike finally collapses, I used the imagery of a world covered almost completely in white, and tried to create the impression that this may or may not be reality. This is what the director requested"
Hmmm.

pg 70 in "The Story Behind the Story" box:
Quoting Mister Watanabe: "There seem to be people who think so when they see Spike pale white in the last scene, but... that's wrong. (laugh) Spike goes down the stairs and then the camera follows flying birds up into the blue sky - and it's not until then that it is complete..."
It doesn't say what he was responding to, but judging by people seeing Spike pale white in the final shot, and that so many people think he's dead I would say that he was responding to questions about Spike's alleged death.  Also, if he says that it's complete when the camera follows flying birds up into the blue sky, then that means that it ends there.  NOT with the fading star or the final shot of Spike's face.  That fading star and the final shot of Spike could just be putting a button on the production, and not meant to indicate Spike's death.

--MrsSpooky (talk) 04:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I've heard some people and rumors say that he is (in appearance) also slightly influenced by Doors lead singer Jim Morrison. I'm not saying he is, but I was wondering if it's true or not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.43.180.69 (talk) 19:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC) 
Shouldnt there be a deceased quoate because the information states Spike died from his wounds so it should be stated next to his age deceased  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.207.227.65 (talk) 19:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC) 

I don’t know what you were talking about here. Even when you made this comment, the article said that people believe that the character Spike died, not that he actually did. — NRen2k5 22:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
There are also statements made by the director, Shinichiro Watanabe to the effect that he never said he died (this is in one of the references associated with the article).  In one interview which doesn't seem to be online, but it's been quoted from, Mr Watanabe said "Did you see him die?  I didn't.  He looked more like a severe lack of sleep."  I have other print references that also indicate that Spike survived as well.  I was considering adding them to the article, but at this point I think I'm going to leave it alone and let it stand as is.
--MrsSpooky (talk) 14:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Anyone got any idea what his gun's specs are exactly? Not that it's entirely relevant, but some people may like to know.  Hx 18:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
The gun is a Jericho 941 made by IWI (now called baby eagle, but his doesn't appear to have rails on the bottom, which means it's an older model). It's a full size, steel frame model, which means that it's either 9x19 or 40 S&W. Its hard to tell for sure, but the most its shown Spike fire at a time is 12, maybe 13 rounds before reloading, this implies it is a .40 because the magazine capacities match up, but that's arguable as he has been a gunman for a long time and could have picked up the habit of tactical reloading. There was one picture (I don't remember where) that had a 941 chambered in 9mm, that could be just a prop used for convenience or it could be canon, who knows?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.225.32.71 (talk) 03:57, 16 February 2010 (UTC) 

Spike Jonze's real last name is Spiegel. I seems like almost too much of a coincidence for this character's name not to be a reference to him. —Hello, Control Hello, Tony 19:35, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Spiegel can also mean Mirror in german, however its most likley to be music/singer related like the most session titles  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.156.161.162 (talk) 13:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC) 

Spike as died even though his death is unconfirmed he should be a tragic hero right.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.248.221 (talk) 23:25, 23 December 2008 (UTC) 

I strongly suggest you look up the term tragic hero.  Spike dying  is not the same thing as being a tragic hero.  Spike suffering tragedy also is not the same thing as being a tragic hero.  Edward321 (talk) 00:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Moron is dying is a tragic hero.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.53.206.180 (talk) 23:00, 25 December 2008 (UTC) 

The whole question is moot, because nowhere did it say Spike actually died, especially when you take the director's comments into account. Those can be found in the references for the article. --MrsSpooky (talk) 18:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Should there be something involving cats? He mentions them every now and then. He also always seems to always have something in common with cats when they're on-screen, but it could just be me.---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.225.38.51 (talk) 00:06, December 31, 2008 (UTC)

I think it could be mentioned, but working it in may be a challenge.  After all, VT's cat Zeros convinced her to give Spike (and Faye) a ride back to the Bebop in Heavy Metal Queen.  It was a cat that saved Spike's life in Pierrot Le Fou.  And he IS very much like a cat himself, you're right.  He does take off to do what he feels needs doing and isn't good about checking in.   He's independent, yet knows where his home and family is.  He loves his partner but doesn't share his emotions, remaining aloof and most times keeping him at arm's length, yet puts himself at risk to protect him and his ship (Wild Horses).
--MrsSpooky (talk) 14:07, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The Movie, Knocking on Heavens Door was never confirmed to be between episodes 22 and 23, this is just speculation because Bigshot is still on the air and all of the old trio are still alive. If the theory is true that this movie is a dream of Spikes, then this could very well mean that the movie is based not much after episode 26, and Spike survived hes fight with Vicious. This is just speculation too, but my point is that the movie being set between episodes 22 and 23 is not fact and im removing it, feel free to put back up if you've got the evidence to support it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.216.119.120 (talk) 11:42, 16 February 2009 (UTC) 

No idea exactly how the chronology of that ever fitted into this article, but its position between 22 and 23 has been confirmed by the staff numerous times during their promotion of the film, and in official publications too.  The combination of Andy dressed as a samurai and Big Shot should be more than enough on-screen evidence though, and if anything, I'd say it's the rumour you've fallen for that one of the three old men died in the series that ought to be struck from the internet... --Contrafour (talk) 23:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Vicious clearly hits the floor with his katana during the final showdown with Spike (it's easily missed, but once you see it - even if you have to watch it in slo mo - it smacks you in the face with each repeated viewing. You can even hear the scraping sound).  It's like he wanted to die as soon as he heard that Julia was dead.  In the end, it's my opinion that it was Vicious who couldn't live without her.  Her passing removed any reason for Vicious to live.  Spike, on the other hand, had a reason to live - Jet, the Bebop, freedom.  By killing Vicious, he freed himself of all ties to the syndicate - all ties to the past that he faked his own death to escape.  He's now truly free.  Google the lyrics to the song "Blue" that played during the ending of the episode, it's a song of hope.
Other items on the screen that indicate that Spike was not fatally wounded (beyond the sight and sound of the katana scraping the floor instead of Spike):

Something new seen during frame by frame - Vicious scrapes the floor with his sword, and as it clears the floor (if it HAS cleared it), Spike fires.  Roughly 12 frames used for the closeup of the muzzle of the gun till the end of the flash.  Next shot is from behind Vicious with blood spray behind him, indicating he had been shot through.  Look at the placement of his knee and the angle and position of the sword. That blood shooting out from next to Vicious' knee is not from Spike.  Vicious' body jerked with the impact of the bullet and in the follow through of the swing, the blade hit his own leg.
1.  After Vicious dies, and it's over, Spike is standing upright, arms at his sides.  Not holding his stomach which one would expect if it was wounded.  No blood flow from his stomach, pooling on the floor at his feet.  We saw characters die, blood pooling beneath them (think Shin), but not here.
2.  As Spike is coming down the stairs, his arm IS held across his body, but that arm was shot and that shoulder stabbed.  He didn't have a sling, so he was keeping his arm immobile because frankly, it hurts.  There was really no blood on his coat around his midsection, which we should have seen had he been fatally wounded.  He was walking painfully because he had been slashed over the knee, and I imagine he was exhausted from that attack, plus from defending the Bebop earlier.
3.  When he falls, again there was no blood on the stairs under him.   There was no blood because there was no life-threatening wound to bleed.
That star that faded?  Laughing Bull is a mystic.  If I had to offer an explanation, I'd say an organism died that day, but it wasn't Spike.  It was his past life: Vicious, Julia, the Red Dragon.  It can be argued that Spike and Vicious were two sides of the same coin, joined at the heart by Julia.  With Julia and Vicious dead, Spike was free to be his own person.  It was his ties to those two people and the syndicate that died.  A mystic can argue that he now truly has a new life, the old one having passed away.
There is also the fact that Bull told Jet that "his star is about to fall." That star at the end didn't fall.  It faded away.  The difference could be significant.
MrsSpooky (talk) 17:12, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Maybe you're right but we'll need more proof.
kyo kara mazuko (talk)13:07, 31 January 2010

The only thing I'm sure of is that Spike did not get slashed.  The rest of it was must me playing around with alternate explanations.  The ending was ambiguous, in that signs did point to his dying, but there was nothing that killed him. --MrsSpooky 15:25, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

The page referenced is no longer in existence - they moved to another server and both the editor and webmaster said they were putting it back, but don't have an ETA.  I'm trying to change the link to the cached page until the real page is back, but I don't know how without messing up the reference.  Here is the link to the cached page:  http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:_Ze_hhDkwKoJ:www.dailytexanonline.com/life-arts/cowboy-bebop-director-watanabe-talks-anime-1.971462+watanabe+daily+texan+bebop&hl=en&client=safari&gl=us&strip=1
If this is acceptable, and if someone knows how, I'd appreciate the help.  Thanks in advance!
--MrsSpooky 06:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Can someone help with reference 4?  The dailytexanonline website never put the page back up.  I saved the cached page as a pdf and have it on my own site: http://mrsspooky.net/bebop/dailytexan.html
I don't know how to change the link to the saved one or if that's even 'kosher.'  Please help? --MrsSpooky 14:25, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

As seen on the YouTube video series "Cowboy Bebop Facts": there is a point at the subtle nod to the 27 Club in regards to the fact that Spike Spiegal "died" at the age of 27.  By viewing any of the art from the 27 Club, you will see the resemblence to the Bebop-like font and style, indicating a correlation (with the show's heavy emphasis on music too).  Obviously this does not prove or disprove Spike's fate (as the tie-in is that the club is for musicians who died at the age of 27), however it is definitely an intentional cultural tie-in nod from Shinichirō Watanabe.
I believe it should be mentioned in the article.  Any objections?
YouTube video (relevant info is at 2:35) + "27 Club" Google search.
RhettGedies (talk) 04:45, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Spike Spiegel/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Tintor2 (talk · contribs) 23:05, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I'll be doing the review of Spike.

The lead could be quite expanded considering the large reception the character has. I would recommend three paragraphs.
Another in the lead: To follow the order of the sections, the voice actors should be mentioned before the reception.
Moving on to the section "In other media" is it necessary to comment the movie could or not be Spike's dream? It could fall into WP:Trivia in a future FAN
Is there something notable (or unique) about the mangas that could be used to expand the section?
Also the same with the video games.
The reception section seems fine but DVD Talk is linked in the second time rather than the first time.
These were all issues I found in the article. It is well written, I expect to pass it in a short time. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 23:05, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

@Tintor2: I've done my best to address the comments above. About the manga and video games, I haven't found enough information to expand things by much. --ProtoDrake (talk) 09:32, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
Passed. Good work.Tintor2 (talk) 13:54, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

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