# Talk:Władysław Sikorski's death controversy

Such title is quoted in Rolf Hochhuth.Xx236 (talk) 09:58, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Decrypting.... failed. I have no idea what the above comment is about. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 22:03, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
You have written about Soldiers, but the full title is like above [1].Xx236 (talk) 09:13, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. Feel free to add it to the article. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 19:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't want to review the article as such at this time, but in my opinon this article shows bias in the form of support for the conspiracy theories, rather than neutral analysis of their probability. IE:

It spends little time laying out results of formal investigation(s) but a lot of time looking into several conspiracy theories
it states the existence of the conspiracy theories, but states no rebuttals
several quoted sources(eg  Nicholas Atkin; Michael Biddiss; Frank Tallett (8 March 2011). The Wiley-Blackwell Dictionary of Modern European History Since 1789. John Wiley & Sons. p. 389. ISBN 978-1-4051-8922-4. Retrieved 8 November 2012.) mention both the conspiracy theories but also that they are unlikely to be true/that the cause is probably natural, yet in the article only reference to the conspiracy theory is given, not to the mention that the writer believes they are probably untrue
I think this needs to be addressed before this can be considered a Good Article. At present it reads biased towards support for the truth of the conspiracy theories due to selective weight on pro-conspiracy sources, and of selective use of content from those sources. -PocklingtonDan (talk) 09:33, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

@User:PocklingtonDan: thank you for the comments. The article is about the conspiracy theories, and the lead as well as the "Investigation and controversy" section state clearly that the incident is  officially classified as an accident. I am not sure where more debunking should be added, but if you think you see such a place, I'd like to invite you to add such a claim to the article. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:12, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Kobylinski left Poland for Ancona in Italy.  After service in the BRitish Army, he died in London in 1961.  212.121.210.45 (talk) 15:25, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

The circumstances of this crash and a near-crash-on takeoff on RAF Hendon of a Wellington bomber carrying Chares De Gaulle are too similar to completely ignore. In the latter case it was firmly established that it was sabotage of controls by acid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle#Plane_sabotage
http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/1943.html  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.255.108.29 (talk) 08:51, 11 October 2015 (UTC) 

De Gaulle's Wellington never left the runway, because the damage to the elevator control rods meant the tail couldn't be raised for take-off, so the pilot simply braked to a halt. Standard pre-take-off checks should have revealed the problem, but perhaps the pilot moved the stick fore-and-aft without looking over his shoulder and noticing that the elevators didn't respond. (There do not seem to be any good sources on this incident, so claims of sabotage and assassination attempts should be regarded with scepticism.) On the Liberator, a tricycle rather than a tailwheel aircraft, the same elevator-control problem would again prevent take-off because the nose could not be lifted. Instead, the Liberator took off, then stalled out and plunked into the sea, 'on an even keel' according to the British accident inquiry: that is, not nose-diving. The surviving co-pilot said he put the nose down to gain safety speed in the usual way and then couldn't pull the stick back again, but it's not very clear and his memory may have been affected by trauma. The Liberator is extremely c.g. sensitive. When sitting on the ground it will rock back on its tail with a loud and costly clunk if you don't keep enough fuel in the correct tanks. In the air it is flown mostly with the elevator trim wheel because it is so unstable in pitch. If anyone moves around the cabin at the back, the pilot will know because he has to re-trim as the Lib noses up or down. A recent Polish researcher, Mieczyslaw Roszicky, has suggested that Sikorski's Lib was simply overloaded and wrongly loaded, the c.g. limit was exceeded, the runway was too short for a Lib at that all-up weight to gain sufficient speed anyway and the aircraft was incapable of controlled flight in those conditions. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:06, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Excuse me, but is it OK for a good article to contain data which is 4 years old, without any proper justification?
I mean the passage about the Polish Institute of National Remembrance, which is dated: "as of July 2013". The link that (had to) provide to the site showing progress in the investigation reroutes me to the main page, which simply is: http://www.ipn.gov.pl/. There is no possibility to attain the source.
This article (http://www.rp.pl/artykul/1075739-Sledztwo-w-sprawie-smierci-gen--Sikorskiego-umorzone.html#ap-2) suggests that the investigation has been ended as "there is no proof to contradict nor to prove any way Sikorski died".
I haven't yet analysed other passages, but please do check the article so that it was up-to-date.
Regards,Ukraroad (talk) 15:22, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

@Piotrus: Is their any update to this 2013 investigation that can be added to this article? AIRcorn (talk) 03:46, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
I can't access the RP link above but a similar one from another reliable news source TVN24 [3] does confirm the investigation has ended, ruling out assassination before the start, and finding no conclusive evidence to either confirm or reject a theory about sabotage as a possible cause of the crash. Other reliable news sources concur, ex Wprost [4], also likely reliable [5] and a bunch of others. Would be nice to add IPN statement, I'll try to look for one later. Feel free to updaste the article, I'll try to do so after finding even better sources. Note that the use of newspapers in this is a bit iffy right now, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Clarification_request:_Antisemitism_in_Poland. Right now I am a bit worried about adding any sources to related topics.  --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:27, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the response. I can't read Polish but google translated it (I know its not ideal, but it does support your description). I have updated the article using the TVN24 source. I don't generally edit this area so am willing to take the risk regards AE. AIRcorn (talk) 08:55, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello, this is my first time doing this, but I think I found a typo. Thanks!
The word “say” should be changed to the word “day”.
Here is the beginning of the sentence with the typo;
For example, there has been uncertainty since the say of the air crash about who boarded the plane…. Brookelynn23 (talk) 08:24, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Fixed. I also updated the wording a bit to make it easier to read. Deauthorized. (talk) 11:35, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

A political thriller CHAOS THEORY by Graham Masterton, published in 2007, suggested that General Sikorski was assassinated as part of a historical plot to kill off any politican who was capable of bringing stability and peace. 2A00:23C6:4003:7901:704E:E6C9:B31B:A920 (talk) 10:46, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 10:50, 16 April 2024 (UTC)