# Talk:Pythagoras

Evidence has revealed Pythagoras's Journal in Rome with a body holding it. 204.8.62.75 (talk)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. HouseBlastertalk 22:19, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Wow...I can't even find any UNRELIABLE sources for this "journal in Rome", even among the usual suspects for propagating this kind of junk.--ElectroNautical (talk) 16:27, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry folks, I KNOW I am supposed to add new topics at the bottom, but (a) there are very serious problems starting in the lead, (b) this article is too important to leave these kind of errors unaddressed and (c) I simply don't have time to prioritize improving the article before requesting reassessment.
I'm hoping to solicit help from previous editors or those with interest and experience making this article more encyclopedic. 
Among the biggest problems I see in the lead, one un-sourced assertion that stands out is... 
"..many of the accomplishments credited to him likely originated earlier or were made by his colleagues or successors. Some accounts mention that the philosophy associated with Pythagoras was related to mathematics and that numbers were important, but it is debated to what extent, if at all, he actually contributed to mathematics or natural philosophy."
This kind of 'bold statement' (opinionated summary of various opinions) in the lead needs extraordinary proof referenced immediately following with specific examples.  Seemingly everyone agrees (including the experts themselves) that almost everything about his life is mere speculation based on apocryphal legends.
The lead should me MUCH shorter, focus on 'little is actually known' and make sure that controversial references to unproven and unprovable stuff like 'aspects of vegetarianism' ?!?!? are moved elsewhere.  Writing style and dialectics are also big problems.  Vegetarianism is by definition a binary thing -- either you eat ONLY from the plant kingdom or you don't. We are leading readers to the conclusion that not only was Pythagoras preaching about the ethics of eating animal protein, he was also a hypocrite in choosing the 'aspects' of vegetarianism he liked.
I'm going to take a stab at some more-than-minor edits I HOPE will be non-controversial, but well aware that multiple editors here must have shared the PoV's that led to acceptance of the lead as it is.
As I find it, this article gives WP:UNDUE weight to speculations about the silliest and most controversial of these apocryphal tales and could be summed up with a "He was a whack-job", which segues nicely to...'smoke trapping' ElectroNautical (talk) 15:56, 16 May 2024 (UTC)  

Well...I just realized the article is protected.  I hope someone can help.  If it cannot be unprotected, what are the options? I don't want to resort to requesting reassessment, but the recommendation to "prioritize improving" is not available to me.  Thoughts?  ElectroNautical (talk) 16:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
"needs extraordinary proof referenced immediately" – This is an entirely uncontroversial claim, widely accepted among scholars, with nothing particularly "bold" about it. Discussion of this point is well sourced in the relevant section of the article, and doesn't need a footnote parade redundantly pasted into the lead section. –jacobolus (t) 16:37, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
What jacobolus said. XOR'easter (talk) 15:02, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Please add the following item to «MODERN SECONDARY SOURCES» :
● WISER, Jean-François (2024) Pythagoras' Archives - A Sum of Pythagoreanism / ISBN-13 : 978-2322525287 PYTHAGORE46 (talk) 20:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Comment: This is apparently a self-published book. It's not cited in the article, so it doesn't belong under "Modern secondary sources" in the "References" section. I doubt that it would be suitable even in the "Further reading" section. Deor (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
This seems like a self-published book by an amateur without professional experience in the subject? –jacobolus (t) 21:44, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 Not done: Not a reliable source per above. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 00:26, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
This is indeed a «self-published book» written by an «amateur». But «professionals» certainly don't have the privilege of knowledge. Wouldn't you read a bit of it (see AMAZON or GOOGLE BOOKS samples) before dismissing ? Thank you. J-F.WISER PYTHAGORE46 (talk) 11:58, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
See WP:reliable source 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:31, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Very occasionally self-published books by amateurs can be used as sources in Wikipedia, but generally that only happens when the work is widely cited by experts in the field, which doesn't happen immediately after publication.
Absent strong countervailing evidence, self-published works are not considered to be "reliable sources" by Wikipedia. This policy is not intended to reflect on the merits of any particular work; it just simplifies the messy process of managing an encyclopedia written by pseudonymous volunteer editors. –jacobolus (t) 14:59, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I had removed the alt text from many of the images from this page as they conflict with  accessibility guidelines by being overly long and describing the picture in minute details. I've reverted this removal now that concerns have been raised on my talk page. Here is a diff of the changes. In each of these four cases, I believe that the image caption itself already meets the accessibility guidelines. @JMF - do you have any concerns with these captions meeting the linked accessibility guidelines? Are they in conflict with any other existing wikimedia accessibility guidelines you're aware of? Psychastes (talk) 16:04, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

looks like the official guideline is MOS:ALT, which seems broadly in parity with the guidelines i linked Psychastes (talk) 16:15, 15 May 2025 (UTC)
The mos:alt seems to apply to a description of a picture as a picture, in which case brevity is appropriate. If the image is to illustrate something, then the alt text needs to communicate the same information textually. Most of the images were just  decorative and you were right to delete them.
Your edit summary said that you had deleted over-length alt texts: I just wanted to alert you to their significance. I have a poor mobile connection at the moment, so wasn't able to check for myself if there is actually any issue. I am happy to accept your opinion that there is none. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:52, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

He was born in 490 BC 2600:4040:AEF9:D200:CFF4:13A9:376F:8B8E (talk) 20:01, 30 October 2025 (UTC)