# Talk:Soho

'Gentrification', second paragraph.  The last sentence in this paragraph, regarding the survival of houses from a certain period, reads, 'Only No 10 and No 15 from this period survived to the 21st century'.  Does the sentence mean ' ... have survived' (i.e. are still there) or ' ... survived', (i.e. may no longer be there, perhaps demolished between 2000 and 2020?).  It is the former, having looked carefully at the pictures.  In addition, the use of 'to the 21st century' rather than 'into the 21st century' is again ambiguous for roughly the same reason. I propose therefore to correct the English.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.59.159 (talk) 13:23, 6 August 2020 (UTC) 

Hello, not sure if this is the right place to ask this?
I have tried to add more up to date info to the Sex section as it appears woefully out of date (last comments related to 2003) but it has been deleted by someone twice... is this okay or if not please help!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.209.235 (talk) 11:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC) 

I don't mean to create trans-Atlantic tension, but shouldn't this article be moved to "Soho (London)" with "Soho" redirected to "Soho (disambiguation)"? Particularly in light of SoHo (Manhattan), which is a well-known neighborhood across the pond, as well as Soho, Hong Kong. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:26, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
SoHo in New York is not an imitation of Soho, London. The name is derived from being the area SOuth of HOuston  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.228.93.52 (talk) 15:40, 12 December 2014 (UTC) 

We hope (talk) 21:30, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Almost every structure that stood on Broad Street in the late summer of 1854 has been replaced by something new – thanks in part to the Luftwaffe, and in part to the creative destruction of booming urban real estate markets. (Even the streets' names have been altered. Broad Street was renamed Broadwick in 1936). The pump, of course, is long gone, though a replica with a small plaque stands several blocks from the original site on Broad Street. A block east of where the pump once stood is a sleek glass office building designed by Richard Rogers with exposed piping painted a bold orange; its glassed-in lobby hosts a sleek, perennially crowded sushi restaurant. St. Luke's Church, demolished in 1936, has been replaced by the sixties development Kemp House, whose fourteen stories house a mixed-use blend of offices, flats, and shops. The entrance to the workhouse on Poland Street is now a quotidian urban parking garage, though the workhouse structure is still intact, and visible from Dufours Place, lingering behind the postwar blandness of Broadwick Street like some grand Victorian fossil. (…) On Broad Street itself, only one business has remained constant over the century and half that separates us from those terrible days in September 1854. You can still buy a pint of beer at the pub on the corner of Cambridge Street, not fifteen steps from the site of the pump that once nearly destroyed the neighbourhood. Only the name of the pub is changed. It is now called The John Snow. 

Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:58, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello all, I was just wondering if the cited area of 1 sq mile (2.5 sq kilometers) for Soho is accurate? A quick glance at Google maps shows that Soho is closer to a .5 mi x .5 mi square (.75 km x .75 km), which would give it an area closer to that of 1/4 of a sq mile or .6 sq km. Those are very rough calculations, but I think it's safe to say that Soho is nowhere near a square mile in area (just draw a mile-long line in Google Maps to see for yourself). That's assuming American miles and standard kilometers. There doesn't appear to be a citation for where this original calculation originated from.
AlphaCentauri900 (talk) 16:06, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Soho/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Eric Corbett (talk · contribs) 17:00, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


### Detailed comments
Lead

"The area was first developed from farmland in 1536 ..." When was it second developed?
Fixed Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:16, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
"The upper class had mostly moved away by the mid-19th century ..." No indication that they'd ever moved in.
I've name dropped a few late-17th century aristocrats in to emphasise this. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:15, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
I have an uneasy feeling that the lead is a little too short for an article of this length.
Was just thinking the same - have another look. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:15, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
Much better!  Eric Corbett 23:23, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
Gentrification

"It was originally called King Square in honour of Charles II, and a statue of him was based in the centre, including." Is there something missing from the end of that sentence, or is the "including" just an accident?
Ah that's probably my "back to front" copyediting - rather than working from an article top-to-bottom, I work on whichever bits are easiest first. Also, there are too many "including"s in the article so I've knocked out a couple. I blame trying to multi-task, which blokes are crap at. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:19, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Decline

"A serious outbreak of cholera in 1854 around Soho caused the remaining upper-class families to leave the area." A serious outbreak of cholera sticks out like a sore thumb, given that the epidemic was dealt with in the immediately preceding chapter.
Yes, that shouldn't be there, we've already talked about the incident enough in the preceding section, so I've trimmed that down. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:45, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Recent history

"The Soho Housing Association was established during this time ..." It's unclear when "this time" actually was.
The source (The London Encyclopedia) didn't say, but I found another one that says it was 1976. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:49, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Theatre and film

"in 2005, Elton John staged a joint bachelor party there with his longtime partner David Furnish in anticipation of their civil partnership, in recognition of the improved status of same-sex couples." I'm unclear what "in anticipation ... in recognition" means. Which was it?
I've cut the second part of the sentence - the recognition of gay rights was more about the Civil Partnership Act 2004 rather than Soho itself. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:52, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
"Soho's key fibre communications network has managed by Sohonet since 1995 ..." Presumably there's a word missing here?
Yup. Fixed Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:53, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
"... 23 per cent of the workforce in Soho works in the creative industries, making it one of the most creative parts of London." I don't think that follows at all.
I think we can lose the second part of that sentence, it's quite long as it is and simply stating the facts as stated should suffice. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:53, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Restaurants and clubs

"... and was popular with the Albert, Prince of Wales (where he is alleged to have dined with his mistress, Lillie Langtry) and Oscar Wilde. Lots wrong with this.
I've split this into two sentences, and reworded it - however I've yet to see a source that says "Bertie" actually did dine publicly with Lillie Langrty, only that it was hearsay and rumour; to have the future monarch having a public affair at the height of Victorian Britain would have been utterly shocking. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:06, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
"It closed in January 2016 pending redevelopment." is it still closed? Sometimes these transient events aren't worth bothering with.
The source in question gave the impression that the close was the last one and it was never reopening; however, I've just discovered it's reopening today, so I've removed the last bit. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:12, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Religion

"John Betjeman campaigned to restore the church, which was completed in 1990." That reads as if the church was completed in 1990, not the restoration.
A more substantial issue is that the source given does not say that (nor explains how Betjeman was involved with a restoration project six years after he died). I've got another source and reworded all this. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Music

"generally regarded as the first venue where modern jazz, or bebop, was performed in the UK until it was closed in 1950 following a drugs raid." It didn't stop being the UK's first venue when it closed.
Split the sentences Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
""... a Sunday afternoon club organised by the beat poets Pete Brown ..." Pete Brown is only one poet
Fixed Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Streets

"... and named after Karnaby House, which was built in 1683 lay on the street's eastern side." Should that be "and lay"?
Split sentence and reworded. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:29, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
The information about the Windmill Theatre has already been covered in the Theatre and film section.
Removed as redundant - It was in the article as I found it and since both parts were either unsourced or not particularly well sourced, I wasn't sure which was going to be developed the most at the time. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:29, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
@Eric Corbett: Any other issues? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:29, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

No more nitpicking from me, I think we're done here now.  Eric Corbett 13:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the review, insightful comments and good copyediting as always - also good to see you getting back into regular GA reviews. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:38, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

I've got a problem with the infobox size. It's too big and squashes the following map down to leave a large white space below the "Location" section. Can it be collapsed? Also, there are now two maps in the article, which seems excessive - can we pick one (or a better one as discussed in parallel on Talk:Mayfair and go with that? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:07, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The problems you describe do not occur on my screen; however, on my screen your removal of the infobox causes a "large white space". We can't design pages for any one user. I've restored the status quo ante. And no, infoboxes should not be collapsed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:30, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
If this was work I'd say "share your screen and I'll have a look". ;-) Anyway, if I remove the map from the "Location" section, the white space disappears. Also, do we need the "Neighbouring areas of London" to be where it is, can we shunt it to the bottom? And why can't we collapse infoboxes? Is that a technical reason, or something else? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:34, 9 March 2021 (UTC)


### Soho
I've listed this article for peer review because I plan to nominate it as a featured article.
Thanks, Sushidude21! (talk) 06:31, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

Unless you're planning to spend the next six months of your life on this, I don't think you've got a hope in hell of passing FA. I'm the primary contributor to the article, improving it to GA some years ago, and there are plenty of sources (such as passing news pieces or Twitter comments) that don't meet FA criteria 1c, the whole area of buildings and cultural references is something of a minefield, and the whole article needs a thorough copyedit from top to bottom. As you didn't contact me about this (as WP:FAC says, "Nominators who are not significant contributors to the article should consult regular editors of the article before nominating it."), I think if you nominated this it would be thrown out almost immediately, not least because I would oppose its promotion for the reasons I've already given. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:06, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
This is very strange. I can only concur with Ritchie333 that bringing the article to PR is, to put it mildly, irregular when you haven't contributed to it at all. I recommend closing the PR, as it doesn't seem to me to have any prospect of progressing. Tim riley talk 14:01, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
@Sushidude21!: I'm going to go ahead and close this due to the comments above and the fact that this is your second concurrent peer review nomination, Gauss being the first, which contravenes the process guidelines. Let me know on the talk page if you have any questions. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 20:55, 9 April 2025 (UTC)

The first paragraph seems to be contradictory.  Was the first use the hunting rallying cry, or the area of London “six months before”?
Also the sources given at the end of that paragraph don’t appear to address the claim at all. 78.146.138.110 (talk) 05:53, 9 July 2025 (UTC)

The Survey of London says "The Oxford English Dictionary defines the word Soho as 'an Anglo-French hunting call, probably of purely exclamatory origin', and cites examples of this usage from the early fourteenth century onwards. The first known use of Soho as a placename in this locality occurs in 1636, as a heading in a list of ratepayers in the parish of St. Martin in the Fields" Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 08:46, 9 July 2025 (UTC)