# Talk:Winsor McCay

{{Did you know nominations/Winsor McCay, How a Mosquito Operates, The Sinking of the Lusitania}} — Preceding unsigned comment added by Curly Turkey (talk • contribs) 06:05, 24 March 2013‎ (UTC)

Winsor McCay Day

Does anyone have an objection if I change the existing birth category to 19th-century births and add a Year of birth uncertain category?; I think it's more accurate to use these than the current 1869 category. Please let me know what you think. Thank you.--FeanorStar7 11:02, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Winsor McCay/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Diannaa (talk · contribs) 16:46, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Hi Curly Turkey! I have started with some copy edits; please feel free to revert any changes you don't agree with. The article is in nice condition and doesn't need much to gain promotion to GA. Here's some items for your attention:

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose: clear and concise, correct spelling and grammar:
"Cycling" as an animation technique - it's mentioned in the lead. We have no article on this subject and the term is not defined. What if anything should be done?Y
Actually, there's a subsection on it at Traditional animation#Animation loops.  I've linked to it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Considered McCay's masterpiece, its child protagonist's appearance was based on McCay's son Robert, and had fabulous dreams, interrupted each week with his awakening in the final panel. I think this should be split into two sentences as there's two subjects.Y
Split. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
McCay experimented with the form of the comics page, its timing and pacing, the size and shape of its panels, perspective, and architectural and other details. I found this sentence awkward and difficult to parse. How about "McCay experimented with the medium, working on timing and pacing, the size and shape of the panels, perspective, and architectural and other details."
Hmmm I don't like "working on timing and pacing".  He wasn't learning the ropes, he was pushing boundaries.  Let me think about this ... Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
How about something like "McCay experimented with the medium, introducing novel ideas for timing and pacing, the size and shape of the panels, perspective, and architectural and other details."
Well, McCay didn't "introduce novel ideas for ... perspective, and architectural and other details", he used his mastery of these well-established techniques to experiment with the page.  Let me think some more on this ... Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:15, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
How about: "McCay experimented with formal aspects of the comics page: he made inventive use of timing and pacing, the size and shape of panels, perspective, and architectural and other details."? Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:21, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes, good, and similar to the way it's worded in the lead. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The quality of his drawings varied depending on his interest in the subject of the assignment, whose sentiments he often didn't believe in, and on events in his personal life, as in March 1914, when he was subjected to a blackmail plot by a Mrs. Lambkin, who was seeking a divorce from her husband. The sentence is too long; I have re-worked - please check that I have not changed the meaning.Y
Looks good to me. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Maude often complained over matters with her husband, but he refused to talk about the,. - something is missing at the end of this sentence.
Fixed. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
I have tweeked some more; please check and make sure it's okay.
B. Complies with  MoS for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation: 
Please add authorlinks to citations. For example, Donald Ault; Michael Barrier; May Berenbaum; Peter Bondanella; Dean Mullaney; please check the entire source list for more.Y I went ahead with this -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Sorry!  I totally missed that you had written this! Curly Turkey (gobble) 13:31, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Tables and citations are elegantly formatted.
Sourcing:
A. Provides references, with in-line citations from reliable sources where necessary: 
Material sourced to quality books and journals.
B. Contains no copyright violations or too-close paraphrasing: 
Spot checks reveal no copyright violations or too-close paraphrasing.
C. No original research: 

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Main aspects are addressed: 

B. Remains focused: 

Does it follow the neutral point of view policy?
Fair representation without bias: 
It was said that... Who said? Family members? please specify, or remove the phrase
Dropped. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
dingy boarding house Is it important that the boarding house was dingy?
I guess not.  Dropped. 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc: 

Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales: 
File:Robert McCay (1840–1915).jpg - Images not only need to have been created before 1923, they need to have been published before 1923 to be PD in the United States. If you have no proof the photo was published anywhere prior to 1923, it should come out.Y
Grrr.  I guess I'll have to drop it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
File:Petit Sammy éternue.jpg - Needs source information.Y
I've replaced it with a higher-quality file (File:Little Sammy Sneeze 1905-09-24.jpg) and source information. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
File:Winsor McCay - Dream of the Rarebit Fiend (1909-06-05).jpg - needs more precise source information (url please).Y
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:28, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
File:The Sinking of the Lusitania (Winsor McCay, signed cel).jpg - needs full url for source website, not just a link directly to the image. (possibly from here?)Y
Fixed. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions: 
Lavish and appropriate use of illustrations
Overall:
Pass or Fail:  On hold for one week to complete tasks. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:32, 27 December 2013 (UTC) -- Pass -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for taking a look at this! Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:23, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

I do have a question about your copyedits: Why remove "Robert grew to become an artist as well." from the paragraph on the McCays' children? Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:34, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
It's already covered earlier in the article, in the 1911–1921 section and again in the 1921–1934 section. Do you think it needs to be mentioned again? -- Diannaa (talk) 02:30, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Hmmm&bnsp;... three times is excessive, but at the same time it clarifies the father-son relationship and shines light on the sister's feelings ... Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:15, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Also, some people might skip to that section without reading the intervening sections. So I have restored it. -- Diannaa (talk) 22:33, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks.  Maybe I can work out a way to make it less redundant—I intend to take this article to FAC eventually, so feel free to split hairs as thin as you like. Curly Turkey (gobble) 06:21, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I have taken a stab at it; see what you think. I am passing to GA. Suggestions for FA: The article presently relies a lot on one source: Canemaker. If you could find at least two more books on the subject, that would probably be enough to diversify the sources. And some of the information on the family presently seems a little too detailed, so if you could tie these facts into explaining his development as an artist and person, that would be great. Thanks for working on this level-4 Vital Article. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for the review!  I'm not sure if there are any other major sources of biographical details on McCay—it seems that every author and their dog relies on Canemaker (which means I'd be sourcing sources that source Canemaker—so many of those sources start with "According to McCay's biographer John Canemaker ...").  I hope to get my hands on a copy of The Poetics of Slumberland and expand some of the non-biographical aspects, though. Curly Turkey (gobble) 13:36, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
Maybe you can get a copy via inter-library loan. I could do so here in Alberta. Good luck with your FA quest, -- Diannaa (talk) 13:46, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone have an objection if I change the existing birth category to 19th-century births and add a Year of birth uncertain category?; I think it's more accurate to use these than the current 1869 category. Please let me know what you think. Thank you.--FeanorStar7 11:02, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on categorization, but it sounds reasonable to me. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:09, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

For the first time, TCM this evening showed the animation featuring the whiffenpoof.  However, I'm pretty sure it was spelled "wiffinpoof" in the animation.  Did anyone catch it and can confirm?  I think if this is correct, the alternative spelling should be included in the article. 99.245.230.104 (talk) 03:02, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Google gives us 123,000 hits for "whiffenpoof" and 496 hits for "wiffinpoof". Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 03:25, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
Did that google search show the scene in the animation where the name is spelled out?  If not, the google search doesn't add much to the discussion.  Since a popular song and music group uses the more common spelling, it's not surprising that google shows that spelling as more common.99.245.230.104 (talk) 07:45, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, which animation are you talking about? The sources used for this article use the "Whiffenpoof" spelling, and they don't talk about any animation using it.. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:37, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Winsor McCay was born in Canada on September 26, 1866.
His parents were married on January 8, 1866, so Winsor was born in 1866 or later. His younger brother Arthur was born in 1868, so Winsor was born before 1868. These simple facts combine to mean that Winsor McCay was born in 1866 or 1867.  His birth after 1867 is obviously impossible.
Winsor himself said he was born on September 26, but he was inconsistent about the exact year, leading to persistent confusion and controversy. However, he is listed as a 3-year-old in the 1870 US Census of Spring Lake, Ottawa County, Michigan. This census was recorded on August 16, 1870, about 6 weeks before Winsor's 4th birthday on September 26, and anyone who turned 4 in 1870 was obviously born in 1866.
So Winsor McCay was born on September 26, 1866, nearly 9 months after his parents' marriage on January 8.
And today is the 150th anniversary of his birth.
>>> Little Silas (talk) 07:02, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Happy birthday, if that's the case!  Until a source considered reliable by Wikipedia standards can lay this definitively to rest, we'll have to stick with the mess of dates that are in the article, though.  You realize that none of the sources gives a date earlier than 1867, though, don't you? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:12, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
Milestone Films, the publisher of Winsor McCay: The Master Edition (dvd), is now celebrating the 150th anniversary of Winsor McCay's birth in 1866. The "Animation" page on their website is headed: "October Animation Sale for Winsor McCay’s 150th birthday!" [2]
>>> Little Silas (talk) 17:13, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Here is an informed commentary on Winsor McCay's birth: [3] This writer favors a birth year of 1866 or 1867.
And here is another informed commentary, whose author believes McCay was born in 1866: [4]
>>> Little Silas (talk) 00:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Little Nemo in Slumberland mural downtown Cincinnati, OH Oct 2016.jpg
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:53, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Why is his death typed in the later career section? Shouldn't it have it's own? BenGMan730 (talk) 18:31, 28 April 2024 (UTC)