# Talk:The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars

I know this might have been discussed earlier, but what was the actual release date for this album? I'm finding multiple sources, including Cann, Spitz, Discogs, and AllMusic say it's 6 June while davidbowie.com says 16 June. I'm super confused as to which one it actually was. – zmbro (talk) 15:17, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

To add on to this, O'Leary and Pegg say it's June 6 as well. – zmbro (talk) 15:12, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

ISTR reading in a couple of Bowie biogs (possibly Pegg and Sandford) there were two different mixes of Starman, one being the standard version almost everyone knows, the other having the morse code style bit mixed down lower.  The single version I have from the original release has the standard mix but the Canadian import album I bought at the time (there was a vinyl shortage in the UK) has the alternate version.  AFAIK, no explanation has ever been given for this.  I'd be very grateful if anyone can shed light on it, and, if possible, inclusion in the article itself.
SamXT (talk) 11:57, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

SamXT There were two different mixes of "Starman". It is partially touched upon in the song's individual article. From the article:
""Starman" was released as the lead single of the album The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars on 28 April 1972 by RCA Records (as RCA 2199) with "Suffragette City" as the B-side.[12][13] According to Cann, the single was released in the US on 20 May with a slight variant from the UK single: Bowie's spoken intro was edited out and "to comply with the preferred duration among American radio stations," the song was shortened by ten seconds.[14] The US single was released in both mono and stereo formats.[15] According to Pegg, the German single was even shorter than the US single, with a length of 3:58, while the Spanish single was titled "El Hombre Estrella".[15] The single originally featured a "loud mix" of the "morse-code" piano-and-guitar section between the verse and the chorus. This single mix appeared on the original UK album, but not on other vinyl editions of the album internationally, in which the "morse-code" section was lower in the mix. While the single mix appeared on the compilation album The Best of Bowie (1980), ChangesTwoBowie (1981) and subsequent compilations featured the more subdued mix, until the "loud mix" finally reappeared on Nothing Has Changed (2014) and on Re:Call 1 as part of the 2015 box set Five Years (1969–1973).[15][16]"
Since the second mix is already mentioned there, in my opinion it isn't necessary to mention in the album article, but let me know what you think and we can see what we can do. – zmbro (talk) 22:26, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
No, that's absolutely fine.  I somehow overlooked the article.  Duuh.SamXT (talk) 22:39, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Adding !scope="row" to the weekly and year-end chart tables would follow MOS:DTAB and provide a darker shade to match the sales certifications table. Also, using both the subsection headings and table captions essentially gives two lines of headings, which looks repetitive/busy (since no other albums are mentioned, adding Ziggy Stardust to each really isn't needed either). Small point, but I've seen "Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB)"s for Featured list candidates. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:17, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

To avoid an edit war I've opened this talk page. Is information about Chapelle Roan taking inspiration from this album for its title classed under trivia? There's also been an attempt by users to remove information of a portuguese singer covering a good chunk of this album and even being heralded by Bowie for doing so. Not sure if this info really falls under WP:undue or if its relevant to keep. Aradicus77 (talk) 00:42, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

Those ones were random trivia content. A countless number of hugely famous popular acts has mentioned this album as h groundbreaking. As Bowie is arguably as out of category artist like Elvis or Beatles, wikipedia users consider it is not relevant to start adding random trivia information in "influence" section, on Bowie- music related articles; otherwise those sections would soon become more than over-bloated. Woovee (talk) 01:35, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
Please elaborate on how it is trivia? The source links that Chapelle Roan's critically acclaimed album from 2023 draws influence from Ziggy Stardust, how is that undue on a page about Ziggy Stardust? This is not the same as someone making a list for very specific trivia comments. Aradicus77 (talk) 01:52, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
Mentioning Chappelle Roan in another article specifically about Bowie's impact on pop culture would surely be relevant.
As she is an extremely popular artist, this information may be an exception for this article. Woovee (talk) 02:19, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
What? The line regarding Roan is about how that album was directly inspired by this Ziggy Stardust album, so why can that information not be featured on this page? If the Starman Bauhaus thing is to be removed, so be it. But you removed the ENTIRE paragraph. Which had all kinds of different pieces of information. Aradicus77 (talk) 02:29, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
This is nevertheless trivia content even if her popularity is huge.
Had she covered many songs off the album, it would be valuable to mention it as a significant fact but it is not the case.
Marc Bolan based his stage name on Bob Dylan and that is not even mentioned in the article about Dylan.
So far for this article, as previously explained, only the part about Chapelle Roan is debatable for an inclusion on the influence section. Woovee (talk) 02:47, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
I would argue that the content in question does warrant some inclusion, given they are all sourced by reliable sources. However, the Bauhaus sentence can be left for the "Starman" article (and their cover of "ZS" is already included in that article). The Seu Jorge covers are mentioned by Nicholas Pegg, one of Bowie's most trusted biographers. Also, I would say that the two albums titles that took inspiration from this one can be classified as "influence". – zmbro (talk) (cont) 14:30, 15 October 2025 (UTC)
Thank you. Aradicus77 (talk) 15:29, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
@Zmbro wrote: "Bauhaus sentence can be left for the "Starman" article (and their cover of "ZS" is already included in that article."
ZG = Ziggy Stardust
Valboo also agrees to withdraw the Bauhaus sentence, as the Starman song article already mentions their cover of ZG = Ziggy Stardust. Plus the source didn't even mention this album.
This is a wp:consensus. Woovee (talk) 14:57, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
@Aradicus77 Woovee (talk) 15:11, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
Wait for him to reply because he might have made a mistake. The Star Man sentence was referencing early members of Bauhaus watching a performance of the song on Old Grey Whistle Test in 1972 and since then the band was inspired by Bowie. That seems to be more something to leave on the Star Man page. However, the Z S thing is completely different as this is about a notable cover bauhaus did of the song which relates to this album. I think the Star Man mention could even be included also if it were trimmed to encompass how Bauhaus were influenced by that particular performance of the song. Aradicus77 (talk) 15:16, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggy_Stardust_(song)#Bauhaus_version
Enough. Woovee (talk) 15:52, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
@Aradicus77: The Bauhaus reference should be at the song article and "Starman" article.--3family6 (Talk to me|See what I have done) 16:25, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
Even the Ziggy Stardust cover? Starman is purely about the song "Starman" (which Bauhaus didn't even cover), while Ziggy Stardust is a song on this album which Bauhaus covered. Aradicus77 (talk) 16:40, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
@Aradicus77 the song article for ZG is the more appropriate venue for that mention, as the article exists--3family6 (Talk to me|See what I have done) 17:14, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
From what I can recollect, yes, Bauhaus were influenced by Bowie after seeing him on TotP, but their covering the song "Ziggy Stardust" doesn't warrant a mention here on the album article; that can be left for the song article, where it is already discussed in depth. Artists cover songs from albums all the time, but the influence section on an album page should be tied to the album itself and not specific songs from said album. It's why Seu Jorge's covers warrant mention here (and more notably, Bowie himself commented on Jorge's covers). – zmbro (talk) (cont) 17:39, 20 October 2025 (UTC)
Alright thank you Aradicus77 (talk) 20:36, 20 October 2025 (UTC)