# Talk:Pavel Bure

anyone know its status? Dsol 21:20, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

A recent edit made by 70.68.82.16 on 1 Feb. 2006 may present incorrect information.  Two previous edits (2 hours earlier) by this IP address were examples of clear vandalism and those changes have been reverted.  However, I know nothing about this subject and therefore have to rely on anyone watching this page to determine whether or not the changes made represent false data.  Rkitko 12:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

You where right, someone is such a Bure fan he had to increase his stats :P. Good call for not knowing about the subject. Marcus1060 04:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

This article is pathetic. There is so much not being said about Bure. He is (sad to say as a Canucks fan) one of the greatest Russian hockey players ever. That warrents considerable attention, something this article doesn't get. I mean, Rory Fitzpatrick has about the same amount of info on his page. I guess I am left to solve this. Kaiser matias 03:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Not to sound like I am attacking but why not edit it and make it that way then? That is after all what this site is about. Djsasso 22:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Its not attacking at all, its the truth. I am very much planning on doing so, just life is getting in my way at the moment so I don't have enough time to do what I have planned. In due course though, it will be done. Unless of course you want to start yourself? Kaiser matias 22:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

With regard to Mr. Bure's associations within the Russian Political world, anyone wishing to investigate this would do well to watch a CBC television documentary (on the series The Fifth Estate) regarding Mr. Bure's associations.  I do not know if information from documentary programmes is considered to be 'factual evidence'.  I assume it depends on the nature of the programme (IE: whether the programme is reputable or not).  The episode in question also discusses the mooted racketeering of young Russian draftees and associated mysterious payments made to murky figures.  The programme also includes discussion of Bure's association with Enzor Kiklashvili (sp?) who heads the organization known as the 21st Century Association, and includes interviews about this subject with Bure himself.  I have found no information on Mr. Kiklashvili on Wikipedia as yet.  I have not added any of the particulars/details surrounding this programme to the site as it is up to others to determine whether this meets the factual/citation criteria wikipedia requires.  If the user below is interested, I am sure this information is available via the cbc archives or website (link below). I hope this helps.
Posthocergopropterhoc 16:53, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/1999/10/06/hockeymob991006.html

I have removed the section of the article alleging mafia ties.  The source is a questionable web site that has no serious journalistic reputation, no evidence of serious research, and no evidence of any editorial or fact-checking process.  See WP:BLP for more information on removing potentially libelous material that is poorly sourced. --Mus Musculus 22:01, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Hey man i really feel there should be at least some mention of russian mafia ties here.
First off Russian mafia info is lacking, basically because of the code of silence being upheld, alot of what i9s known about sicilian mafiosi is because of the broken code of omerta and the prevalent ratting of the early nineties, the Russians have not had this problem, so varyifying alot of the info is going to be hard.
I am not russian, i will not pretend, And i know of the moratorium on independent research, but let me tell you, this man's familty is deeply entrenched in russian crime as well as lore, his father was a master craftsmen for many high profile oficials during the cold war period.
you can look on ebay and find signature bure watches made by his father inscripted with old Ussr insignias as well as KGB symbols. you can also, pull your head out of the clouds and do a little research.
His Legal Godfather is the supposed (anything related to the russian mafia is gonna be supposed unless you bring a rat to interpol and have him debrief the feds on everything that has goine down in the past twenty years) head of the racket upon Nhl russians, his name escapes me at the moment.
If you look into you'll find that bure is heavily involved with Russian Mafiosi as well as some other high profile russians, and there is a public rift that open between he and ALex Mogilny after Mogilny tried to gain European Union protection against the racketering that affects many up and coming russians in the NHL and domestic leagues.
just keep in mind your not gonna be able to verify something such as crime until a rat or pentito comes forward and delineates some people, keep in mind what we knew about italian mafiosi was the result of years of speculation, and eventual Uncanny risk on interpol and the US FBI to infiltrate and uncover siad mafia operations, such has not been done to the russian syndicate, and if it has it has not been made public domain, prolly cause the operatives are still embedded, but i mean cmon, how many high level hits have you heard about the russians perfroming, the definetly exist and some form of KGB influence still prevails (think about that journalist or the scientific advisor who wa shut up with a needle in the kremiln, it is clearly visible on a number of websites ((you tube included))
When1eight=2zeros
And how could i forget his college academy team is CSKA moscow a club which has refused to do away with its red army ties as well as its former KGB investors and shareholders, as well as his new found stake in the Russian hockey federation, your prolly looking at the next Inforcer of Said racket, just look into it fellas.
When1eight=2zeros

I've removed the following prose due to issues raised regarding the reliability of its source.  I'm leaving it here until a better source can be found to support it.

During his rehabilitation period, Bure took part in Canada's first-ever live internet chat involving an NHL player.  The session, set up by the Canucks between Bure and the fans, took place just one hour prior to a home game against the Hartford Whalers on February 7, 1996.
Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 02:12, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pavel Bure/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Resolute 03:01, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS): 

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 

It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 

It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 

Overall:
Pass/Fail: 

Reviewing with a look towards a second FAC nomination:

Images: All good
References: Good. hockeydb, The Russia Journal and Rotoworld will all likely be challenged at a FAC. I have been able to show hockeydb's reliability in the past, but be prepared to show that the latter two are reliable.
There are several multi-sentence passages before inline references are provided.  I am going to assume that such references cover all of the preceding text.
"Bure joined the club full-time in 1988–89 and amassed a record-setting 17 goals, the largest single-season total for any first-year player in the Soviet League, in his rookie season to earn rookie of the year honours." - redundancies.  You note he was a rookie/first year player three times, and that he set a record twice.
"Bure's individual success helped CSKA Moscow capture their thirteenth consecutive Soviet championship and eleventh consecutive IIHF European Champions Cup in 1989 (they would repeat as European champions the following year)." - needs citation
Pending
Found ref for IIHF ECC, still looking for Soviet championship ref. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 04:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
"His 35 goals was second in league goal-scoring, just one goal behind Ramil Yuldashev of Sokil Kyiv." - remove unnecessary qualifiers. eg: "just" in this sentence. (look for other examples)
"That off-season, in August 1991, Bure was offered a three-year contract extension with CSKA Moscow, which he turned down." Comma abuse.  Can be simplified: "Bure turned down a three-year contract extension in August 1991, resulting in his being left of the roster of the Soviet team for the Canada Cup." (look for other examples)
The Vancouver Canucks section is one massive, unbroken lump of text. It might be beneficial to break that into two sections.
I gave the draft and legal proceedings its own section entitled "Transfer to the NHL".  Is this appropriate/sufficient?
"Team executives reportedly stormed the Met Center stage in Minnesota, where the draft was being held, protesting the choice immediately following its announcement." - Which team?
The ref doesn't specify which team execs.  Should I mention they're unspecified or remove it altogether?
Found ref specifying that a Red Wings scout protested immediately, but nothing specifying which team reps rushed the stage.  I ended up noting that it was reported as unspecified. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 06:12, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
"Bure was signed to a four-year contract soon thereafter, on October 31,[7] worth a reported $2.7 million with an $800,000 signing bonus." Using both "soon thereafter" and the date is redundant, and forces a break in the sentence.  Use only one: "Bure signed a four-year contract worth a reported $2.7 million with an $800,000 signing bonus soon thereafter/on October 31.  Also, note what currency this is - you will be asked at FAC
Trying to find a ref that specifies which currency.  In the meantime, however, is this necessary for GA?
"Beginning to garner much attention in Vancouver," "Beginning" is unnecessary.  "Garnering much attention in Vancouver,..."
"Bure's addition to the Canucks lineup bolstered a core that featured Linden and goaltender Kirk McLean, a previous Vezina Trophy nominee in 1989 and 1992 as the league's best goaltender, helping the Canucks to their first of two consecutive Smythe Division titles." - citation needed
Looking for one.
Done. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 05:51, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
"He also became, in the process, the first Canuck to reach the 50-goal milestone."  Unnecessary comment, as you establish in the previous sentence that the old record was 44.
"Bure reached another club mark on March 9, breaking the Canucks' single-season points record of 91, previously held by Patrik Sundström. He broke the record with two assists in a 7–2 win against the New Jersey Devils." Redundant again.  Perhaps: "Hhis two assists in a 7-2 win over the New Jersey Devils moved him past Patrick Sundstrom's franchise record of 91 points", or some such.
"Bure eventually finished the season with 110 points in 82 games and became the first Canuck named to the NHL First All-Star Team" - another unnecessary qualifier: eventually"
"He finished the season on the strength of a 19-goal, 30-point month of March that saw him be named player of the month for the 16-game stretch." - Awkward statement.  Perhaps: "He finished the season with a 19-goal, 30-point stretch that saw him named the player of the month for March."
"In the seventh game of the opening round series against the Calgary Flames, Bure scored one of the most significant and well-known goals in Canucks history." citation needed
"In the subsequent off-season, the Canucks announced, on June 16,[40] that Bure re-signed to a five-year, $24.5 million contract.[41] The deal, which also put Bure's father, Vladimir, on the team payroll as a fitness and marketing consultant,[40] was reported to have been signed prior to game three of the Stanley Cup Finals against New York.[42]" A lot of commas in a short space.  Try to re-word
"Due to the 1994–95 NHL lockout, Bure spent brief single game stints with..." "Brief" is unnecessary
"In the season opener against the Calgary Flames, on October 5, 1996, however, Bure was pushed into the boards head first while carrying the puck by rookie defenceman Todd Simpson." - comma abuse.  Consider rewording
"Complemented by 36 assists, his 58 goals and 94 points both finished as franchise record-setting marks for single-season totals." - again, too many unnecessary words.  "His 58 goals and 94 points both represented single-season records."
"Having previously undergone reconstructive knee surgeries in 1995 and 1999, Bure suffered another another injury to his knee..." There is no need to repeat that he had undergone knee surgeries here.  I'd start at "Bure suffered another knee injury..." (remove one of those "another"s too)
"Bure returned that season to appear in 39 games, managing 19 goals and 30 points in the injury-shortened season." Unnecessary to point out it was an injury shortened season when you spend the entire paragraph describing how he was injured
"Plagued by injuries throughout his career..." again, unnecessary.
"After Bure sustained his first serious knee injury in 1995, Bure pursued the watchmaking business during his rehabilitation period in an attempt to revive the family business." - try to avoid reusing the same words multiple times in one sentence.
I am placing the nomination on hold pending some revisions to the article. Cheers, Resolute 03:01, 11 December 2009 (UTC)


### Reply
Thanks very much for taking the time to review.  I addressed all the above prose issues with the exception of the ones I've added further notation for.  Please let me know if there's anything further I can do. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 00:54, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Looks good so far.  I'll take another look in a day or two when I have more time. Resolute 00:16, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 00:19, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
I still need a citation for the statement that Bure's OT winner against Calgary in 94 is the most significant in Canucks history.  While I can certainly appreciate that it is probably true, without the citation it reads as your POV rather than a historical statement.  Once we have that, I think it will be good for a GA pass.  It won't stop me for GA, but if you intend to go to a FAC later, you will want to really cut down on the overuse of Bure's name.  The first paragraph in his early life section, for instance, uses "Bure" six times.  You don't need to keep referencing who you are talking about so often. Resolute 23:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
My bad, I had forgotten about that one.  I've cited two good refs.Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 02:10, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Looks good.  I'm satisfied this is a good article.  I would recommend finding an experience copyeditor before trying at FAC again, however. Cheers, Resolute 02:41, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks again for your time; couldn't have done it without you. Orlandkurtenbach (talk) 03:20, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I know the CBC source (as well as the youtube video) says the clip aired on March 27, 1995, but March 27, 1995 fell on a Monday, not a Saturday. Coach's Corner airs exlcusively on Saturdays as part of CBC's Hockey Night in Canada, and has done so for many years. Only during the playoffs will it air on other days of the week as well. Also, according to http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/1995_games.html, the Canucks played the Red Wings at home on Saturday, March 25, which is evidenced by the footage in the clip that shows the Canucks in their white home jerseys and the Red Wings in their red away jerseys. It would therefore make sense that the clip aired on March 25, not March 27.
Thoughts? Ericster08 (talk) 14:37, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

"Trained in the Soviet Union, where he was known as "Pasha" . . ." Considering EVERY person in Russia named Pavel is known as Pasha, is this really noteworthy? That's like saying about somebody named David, "Trained in the USA, where he was known as Dave . . ."Djob (talk) 11:13, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

The Bure brothers were born in Minsk(Belarus).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.98.157.59 (talk) 19:31, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 

If you have a Reliable Source please add it right now all the RS state they were born in Moscow.--Mo Rock...Monstrous  (leech44) 14:40, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Minsk is correct. The family and thus young Pavel too was registered in Moscow, but Pavel was born in his mother's hometown in Belarus. Source: [1]. -103.212.222.155 (talk) 11:40, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
One article from a Belarusian news site does not negate the overwhelming sources that state he was born in Moscow. And it seems unlikely that in the 46 years since his birth no one else has bothered to claim he was born in Minsk. Kaiser matias (talk) 12:33, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Also according to the Russian Ice Hockey Federation he was born in Minsk, I think that's a source about as reliable it gets in these matters: Поздравляем Павла Буре -2001:14BA:1FFE:7100:5DBA:78BE:B9FB:4265 (talk) 08:12, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

This articles states the Bure started with the Canucks in 1991 at the Pacific Coliseum.  I believe the Canucks had moved to BC Place Stadium years before.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.98.183.202 (talk) 16:56, 24 February 2014 (UTC) 

The Canucks played at the Pacific Coliseum from their inception in 1970 until 1995, when they moved to GM Place (now Rogers Arena). They never played a game at BC Place, except for their upcoming game on March 3, 2014. Kaiser matias (talk) 12:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

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