# Talk:Real Irish Republican Army

Please (a) point-out the incorrect information added in this edit and (b) explain why Template:Infobox organization is more suited to this article than Template:Infobox militant organization ~Asarlaí 14:44, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Point out (a) the correct information you added, bearing in mind I know full well about what you consider correct (informers are "members of the security forces", yeah right....) and (b) why you think the newer version is more suited, excepting the name of the infobox. 2 lines of K303 11:08, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
What a childish attempt at a counter-argument.
I added the following information (which you insist is "incorrect"):
That the RIRA has been active in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and England (i.e. that it has carried-out attacks in those jurisdictions). Such information is obviously important and is given in the infoboxes of all the other paramilitaries. It's also in this very article, supported by numerous sources. However, as you insist that's "incorrect" then perhaps you should start a discussion. Better yet, you could just remove all that information willy nilly.
That the RIRA's ideology is Irish republicanism (hint: the clue's in the name). Again, such information is obviously important and is given in the infoboxes of all the other paramilitaries. It's also so obvious that it hardly needs a source, but you'll find them in the article anyway. However, if you insist that's "incorrect" then perhaps you should do something about it.
That the RIRA carried-out the 1998 Omagh bombing, 2001 BBC bombing, 2001 Ealing bombing and 2009 Massereene attack. Yet again, that fact is noted in all of those articles and is supported by sources.
The infobox I added is more suited to this article because:
It has a field for "area of operations"
It has a field for "ideology" and a field for "motives"
It has a field for "notable attacks"
It has a field for "financing"
It doesn't have a pointless map with a tiny Northern Ireland highlighted in orange
~Asarlaí 12:41, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I see you've somehow failed to mention the two other changes you made, perhaps you'd like to mention those so we can carry on? As those might just be the problem here eh? 2 lines of K303 13:41, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
I see you've somehow failed to address any of the points I made and failed to show how anything I added was "incorrect". But anyway, please enlighten us. What were the other two changes I made that introduced "incorrect information"? ~Asarlaí 15:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
The meaning of "perhaps you'd like to mention those so we can carry on" was quite clear, but since you're not prepared to I'll do it for you. There is your edit. You added a field with a display title of "Leader" and an entry of "Army Council". The Army Council has seven people on it, it isn't a leader (singular). It does appear you have difficulty with plurals, since you claimed a single revert was reverts (plural). Obviously you can dispute you added it if you want, but you completely removed the old infobox and *added* a different one, therefore anything in it you added. Similarly you added "Dates of operation" with an entry of "November 1997 – present", this isn't correct. Now we've got some of your errors out of the way, on to the rest:
A field for area of operations you added misleading information to, since they aren't active in the Republic of Ireland in a similar way to Northern Ireland and England
A field for ideloogy you aded "Irish republicanism" to, which is redundant to the opening line of the article
Two of the "notable attacks" are already covered in the lead, and the other two aren't really that notable at all. The articles are little more than Wikinews fodder
A field for financing that isn't even used....
Are you suggesting the map is compulsory in the other infobox? 2 lines of K303 11:13, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
At last we get an explanation, and it only took five days! Now let me deal with your points:
A council is plural in that it consists of more than one person, so it doesn't matter whether the title is "leader" or "leaders". However, if you're afraid readers will think the RIRA is led by "Mr/Ms Army Council" you can always change it to "Army Council (consisting of seven members)" or likewise.
The dates of operation are correct. The RIRA has been operating (which includes more than just launching attacks) since it formed in November 1997. The fact that it was briefly on ceasefire makes no difference – see the infoboxes for the other paramilitaries and for the Provisional IRA campaign.
The area of operations is correct. The RIRA has been active in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and England. The fact that it has been less active in the Republic of Ireland and England doesn't matter here. Again, see the infoboxes for the other paramilitaries.
As for the infobox repeating things that are already in the lede: that's what infoboxes are meant to do. Both the lede and the infobox are meant to contain key information about the subject. Thus, it's inevitable that both will contain much of the same information.
~Asarlaí 12:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
It seems you don't even know the difference between four and five (or one and five to be truly accurate), you really do struggle with numbers don't you?
Erm, no because we're not changing to that infobox at the moment. You go butcher the English language somewhere else, not a GA.
The dates of operation are not correct. The date of formation is not the same as the start date of the date of operations. It is completely misleading to say so, especially when a book disagrees with your fantasy. Did I even mention ceasefires? You don't have the intellect to know what I'm thinking, so I wouldn't waste your time assuming you do.
The Real IRA is not "less active" in the Republic of Ireland, try reading about the history of it and every other modern variant of the IRA.
Says who? You act like you're adding new useful information, you're not. If your only argument is that you're adding a new field that duplicates the lead, that's less than nothing.
I see you've quietly conceded on three points already, only four more to go then I can do something constructive again. 2 lines of K303 10:58, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Take your head out of your arse. Nothing has been conceded and your points have been rebutted. Your latest bullet-pointed dregs don't even merit being called 'arguments'.
I never expected this discussion to go anywhere and nor did I care. I knew from the beginning you'd find a silly excuse to remove the new infobox and then make a fool of yourself on the talkpage (again). You've delivered spectacularly. As myself and others know all too well, one cannot edit the articles of which you seemingly claim ownership unless those edits have your consent. This is just another of the articles that you'll undoutedly continue to smother.
By the way, you should probably learn to count first before accusing others of struggling with numbers: ~11AM on 20 January (when you made the revert) until ~11AM on 25 January (when you finally explained yourself) is roughly five days. Hint: it's the same number of digits on your hand (that means fingers and thumbs). ~Asarlaí 17:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
While I'm here, you may want to look up the definition of "refute" before using it again. It doesn't mean "ignore points completely". 2 lines of K303 13:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
I have amended the heading for this section per WP:TPG (don't refer to other editors in headings). I also want to point out that one revert is not the same as "reverts". ---RepublicanJacobiteTheFortyFive 16:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

SOLID PROOF WIKIPEDIA NEEDS AN INBUILT CALCULATOR FOLKS. Hurrr hurrr. I want to point out some separate issues I have with the info-box. Firstly, the image, of Northern Ireland shown within the UK seems rather strange and unnecessary. The description below too. This is probably down to the lack of free images to do with the RIRA, mind. Secondly, "membership - Unknown" (hurrr, I'm not volunteering, I think being bought up in England, Female and Jewish would weigh against me ;D) - just inquiring as to what membership exactly entails in this place and why it's "unknown" - this seems to be an info-box parameter issue to do with ambiguity and something that frequently comes up with Info-boxes. Thanks. --Nutthida (talk) 16:06, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Since when has being English and female been a bar on membership? Remove it if you want, improvements from constructive good faith editors are always welcome. Photos are like you say, free images are a bit thin on the ground and the infobox looks a bit feeble without some sort of image. Still, at least it's correct and free from grammatical disasters :) 2 lines of K303 13:52, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

See this. So where are we going to put the new article, assuming we're creating one (which might not be the case yet, there's no immediate rush). 2 lines of K303 19:08, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

This is just a throwaway line claiming the [Provisional] IRA have disbanded. It gives no indication as to the source of this claim, or when it happened, and there hasn't been any announcement of it happening either. In my opinion, it clearly doesn't meet the requirement for an exceptional source for what is an exceptional claim. 2 lines of K303 21:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I've seen numerous articles in the guardian that say their numbers are around 700 after their recent merger. I can't find those articles right now but I did find one that says about 600 people are members. So I think 700-600 is a decent number.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-19014981  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onthehook (talk • contribs) 02:20, 10 September 2012 (UTC) 
Has someone exact dates about the real strenght of the RIRA? Dissident Group rises in strenght, now more then 600 - The Five Demands english-italian irish Article says have 600 man.--Nicholas Urquhart (talk) 06:37, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

The BBC article says "600 people involved in dissident republican activity"; it doesn't specify Real IRA. The Italian article links to this Irish Times article of October 2010, which says "membership of the different groupings is now over 600", again without saying how many of those are Real IRA. Best to wait until there is something specific.  Scolaire (talk) 14:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

The "Merge with other groups" section—which has been copied verbatim into the lead—says that "the Real IRA would subsequently cease to exist as a separate entity." However, newspaper and television reports of the death and funeral of Alan Ryan in September 2012 all refer to the Real IRA, not to the "new group". I think that that bit should come out, or at least out of the lead, since there is no evidence that it reflects the reality on the ground.  Scolaire (talk) 14:45, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I want to float this idea before going to an RM. It seems to me that there is no such organisation as the "Real Irish Republican Army". It is referred to by the media and in books as the "Real IRA", and of course it refers to itself simply as the "Irish Republican Army". Here is Google News for "Real Irish Republican Army" versus Google News for "Real IRA". And here is the Google Ngram for "Real Irish Republican Army" v "Real IRA". Per COMMONNAME this should be moved to Real IRA, and the abbreviation expanded/explained in the lead.  Scolaire (talk) 22:43, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree Apollo The Logician (talk) 16:47, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

How significant is it that the RIRA is on the New Zealand list of terrorists? Have they carried out attacks there? Have they carried out fundraising there on any scale? Is New Zealand a major world power? Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information.  --Scolaire (talk) 22:38, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

NZ is a member of the British Commonwealth.  It is also a very strategically important part of the West's Pacific defense, due to its location. 98.67.185.241 (talk) 22:39, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
West Pacific defense doesn't seem incredibly big when talking about internal Irish conflict. Torisien (talk) 14:29, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

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Clearly, the New IRA is a new group formed through the mergers. Several journalists have said that the Real IRA is now inactive, which isn't a surprise considering we've got the New IRA since 2012. Is it time to create a new New IRA article and call the Real IRA defunct? --Gateshead001 (talk) 16:16, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes I am of the opinion that the New IRA should be part of a new article. If we can build enough evidence to state that the Real IRA is inactive (which should be easy enough, in my opinion) then we can start working on an article for the new group. st170etalk 18:37, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

The media refers to them as different organizations, the media is a reliable source. The New IRA is a merger of RIRA and other groups not the real IRA itself. Apollo The Logician (talk) 14:41, 24 December 2016 (UTC) Apollo The Logician (talk) 14:41, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

See above RfC. Edits on controversial topics such as this should only take place with consensus. st170etalk 14:42, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
Care to comment then? Apollo The Logician (talk) 14:44, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
bumped to generate discussion Apollo The Logician (talk) 19:21, 26 December 2016 (UTC)


### New Discussion
Since a separate article has been created for the New Irish Republican Army, should we declare RIRA defunct on this page or should we merge the two articles? Charles Essie (talk) 22:02, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes the RIRA is defunct. All sources above say so. Apollo The Logician (talk) 22:18, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
@Charles Essie: The above RfC concluded that consensus doesn't exist to split the articles or consensus to refer to them as different organisations. st170e 10:04, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
Should we merge the two articles then? Charles Essie (talk) 15:04, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
It is from my understanding that the author of the New IRA page copied the information from the RIRA in a cut+paste move. We could just revert that. st170e 01:01, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

New Irish Republican Army should be merged into this article as they are the same organization, the only thing that happened is some groups joined the RIRA. The articles are also very similar and have no really different information. Serafart (talk) (contributions) 22:43, 4 April 2017 (UTC)
Merge - the New Irish Republican Army is a copy-and-paste creation against the consensus of the RfC and discussions above. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 08:29, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Oppose It is clear they  are different orgsnisations. Apollo The Logician (talk) 15:46, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Is it? According to both articles "New IRA" is just what they're being referred as in the press. F.Y.I. I'm neutral for now. Charles Essie (talk) 20:12, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
@Charles Essie:It is a new organisation. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jul/26/ira-northern-ireland-dissident-republican-groups "Three of the four main dissident republican terror groups in Northern Ireland are to merge and reclaim the banner of the IRA, in an escalation of attempts to de-stabilise power sharing.
The Real IRA has been joined by Republican Action Against Drugs, which has been running a violent vigilante campaign in Derry, and a coalition of independent armed republican groups – leaving only the Continuity IRA outside the new group."
and "Republican Action Against Drugs and the Real IRA will cease to exist, one source close to the dissidents said.
The new organisation is planning to intensify terror attacks on the security forces and other targets related to what it regards as symbols of the British presence, according to the source."
and lastly "Until this week there were four separate violent groups opposed to Sinn Féin's peace strategy. As a result of this merger three republican terror groups have become one, reclaiming the banner of the IRA:" Apollo The Logician (talk)
You just copied and pasted that from the debate above, which was closed on 30th January with a finding of "There is no consensus to split New IRA and RIRA into different articles, nor is there a consensus to refer to them as different organizations." - but you went ahead and did it anyway. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 16:33, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
That may be, but it doesn't refute that source. Charles Essie (talk) 17:06, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
As Charles says that is irrelevant. Also I created the article before that discussion and actually forgot about it.Apollo The Logician (talk) 19:21, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Merge. There shouldn't be two articles. Maybe this should be re-named to match the new name, but the per the sources, the core of the new organization is the former Real IRA, so there shouldn't be two articles, since they're largely the same. Maybe in the future if New IRA does a lot more stuff and size becomes an issue, we can split. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 17:48, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
The source states that the Real IRA will cease to operate. That would make no sense. Also that is wild speculation, do you have any sources to back that up?Apollo The Logician (talk) 19:21, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the Real IRA will cease to operate, as will Republican Action Against Drugs and "the coalition of independent armed republican groups". Of these three, the Real IRA would seem to be the core of this new group. It's essentially a continuation of the Real IRA with the other smaller groups folded into it. If the number of reliable sources calling it the New IRA is sufficient, this page can be moved, but until then, or until the page size becomes unwieldy, there should only be one article to avoid duplication. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 20:36, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
"The source states..." ~ the "source" is hardly authoritative. It's a single source speculating about what will happen at some future point. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 22:32, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Restating that the Real IRA or what was the Real IRA is the core of the group does not answer my question. Would you at least agree that the article should stop refering to the Real IRA and the 'New IRA' as the same group. Apollo The Logician (talk) 20:45, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Any references should use "Real IRA" in content about events before and during the merge and "New IRA" (which is apparently the new name) after that merge has been explained in the text for events where it is clear that it is the new merged group being referenced. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 21:40, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
I would at least agree that the consensus previously arrived at should be respected and that therefore New Irish Republican Army should be merged into this article. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 12:04, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Merge the RfC above showed there was no consensus for a page split. The information was copied from here anyway. The 'New IRA' has its roots, origins and structure in the RIRA; they're just a bunch of dissidents that came under the banner of the RIRA. st170e 22:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Merge as per reasons stated above. With enough support I will now proceed with a merge. --Gateshead001 (talk) 15:16, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

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I will be amending this to make it conform to references. On occasion the references are not clear whether a town/city or county is being referred to, on others the inclusion of certain areas is completely contradicted by the references.
Black Operations says The bulk of the resignations too place in republican strongholds in Counties Louth, Monaghan, Dublin, Tyrone and Armagh. Janes says One area of Munster where the RIRA failed to make headway is Co Kerry, where senior SF figure Martin Ferris, convicted of PIRA arms smuggling in the 1980s, has remained loyal to the Adams/McGuinness leadership of SF and There are some members in Belfast, but the RIRA has apparently made little attempt to recruit in that city or in Derry; Republicans in both centres have mostly remained loyal to the PIRA leadership and the Adams/McGuinness peace process strategy
There can be no justification for the inclusion of Derry or County Kerry, based on what the references actually say. FDW777 (talk) 15:54, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Ira is not good if it comes back coded bulks.

"A fictionalised version of the Real IRA, named the True IRA" is unreferenced. "One of its main characters Chibs Telford, is an excommunicated member" is unreferenced. "Some parts of the third season is even filmed and set in Northern Ireland" is unreferenced. Please stop disrupting this article. FDW777 (talk) 07:20, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I'm bad at editing so if anyone can add it I would be thankful 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/apr/05/northernireland.eu
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/serbs-supply-real-ira-arsenal/28322259.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30008816.html CommanderStrelok (talk) 15:19, 30 April 2025 (UTC)