# Talk:Ralph Basset

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ralph Basset/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Courcelles 06:02, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
I see Miss Meyers wasn't the only short article you're working on.  Well, it's short (redundant, I know) so this shouldn't take that long. 
The article is excellent- I wouldn't expect anything less from you, but I do have a few points/question/comments.  Do with them what you will. 
It's become sadly rote, but the first thing I look at these days is the citations. 

"New Haven, Conn" vs. "Baltimore, MD" vs. "Philadelphia" Consistency in the state abbreviations, please.
c.f. "Cambridge, UK" vs. "Cambridge"
Otherwise, the citations look fine
All fixed Ealdgyth - Talk 12:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Moving on:

Do we have a link anywhere that explains what a Royal Justice is?
No, and I'm not motivated enough to write one... since it's really not much more than a judge appointed by the king at this stage in history. We're not always clear on what it was. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
"a survey of the landholdings in the city of Winchester which took place between 1103 and 1115,[4] probably close to 1110." This sentence could do with some rewording- the date is uncertain, wheras right now it is ambiguous and could be read that the survey took 12 years!
I've added "at some point" before "between 1103".. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
"The medieval writer and chronicler Orderic Vitalis described Basset as one the new men of King Henry," Perhaps describe Vitalis as a contemporary, rather than a medieval writer?  Comparing the articles, they were alive at the same time.
Yeah, but lots of contemporaries, but few chroniclers at the time. If I say contemporary, it doesn't make it as clear that he was not just some common peer of Bassets writing, but something rarer. DId that make sense? (It's really early in the morning here.. ) Ealdgyth - Talk 12:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
"Basset's sons were Richard Basset..." this is awkward, since the sentence mentions two sons after this phrase, and then takes two more sentences before the reader realises Basset had four sons in total.
Now reads "Among Basset's four sons were..." which hopefully is better. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Doubtful that RB will go the FAC route. Unlike the horses, the obscure royal servants need a lot more context on the times to fill them out. Compare Urse d'Abetot when he passed GA and Urse as he passed FA. If I do up Ralphy, he'll fill out, I'm sure. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:54, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
All looks good; though you're likely right about this encountering resistance at FAC.   Passed.

Pipera (talk)
See Basset family
Ralph Basset, 1st Lord Basset of Drayton
Ralph Basset (died 1265)
This Basset line ended with Ralph Bassett ( 1135 d 10 May 1390). Due to the following factors. Ralph Basset who married Joan de Grey had issue, they had Ralph Basset who's line became instinct, he had a sister Margaret de Basset she married John de Bohun, 5th Earl of Hereford this marriage was dissolved, and they had no issue. Margaret de Basset never married after the death of John de Bohun, 5th Earl of Hereford. [21] [22]
The lineage ended with the death of Ralph Basset who married twice (1) Joan Beachamp d/o Thomas and Katherine Beachamp and (2) Jean de Bretagne, which failed to produce issue.
The lands of the Basset lineage fell to Ralph Stafford, 1st Earl of Stafford - IPM of Ralph, Earl of Stafford [23]. Being a close relative of Margaret Basset who married Edmund Stafford, 1st Baron Stafford.
Ralph Bassett and Hawise had three children:
Ralph Bassett married Joan de Grey they had two children:

Ralph Bassett married Alice de Audley they had one issue:
Ralph Basset married (1) Joan Beauchamp (2) Jean de Bretagne Extinct Peerage.
Margaret Basset married Sir John Bohun (no issue - Papa Divorce 4th Cousins - not finalized.) d.s.p

Margaret Bassett, she married Edmund Stafford, 1st Baron Stafford Baron Stafford (Lands reverted to the Stafford lineage.)
Matilda de Bassett, she married Sir William Heriz. Court case were this was challenged by this lineage and was proven unsuccessful.[24]
You stated:,we do not include this information in this trivial detail on distant descendants

The line ended and was extinct.
I know I am a descendant of Ralph Basset Matilda Ridel.
References were added.
In future give a proper reason for the removal of vital Basset information.
Further, raise this on the talk page so we can have a discussion this avoids Merging Issues etc.
Most of this has nothing to do with the Ralph Basset who is the subject of this article. And you've been asked, over and over and over again - to sign your posts at the END of the post. This article is about the person Ralph Basset, not the Basset family or how it ended. Ealdgyth (talk) 18:38, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Robert Basset
Ralph Basset married Alice de Buci daughter of Robert de Buci 
Richard Bassett married Matilda Ridel they had: 

Ralph Basset married Alice Descendant
Matilda Basset married John de Stuteville
William Basset married de StaffordDescendant
John Basset
Sybil Basset married Robert CauxDescendant
Geoffery Basset married Sybil Maundit
Ralph Basset married Alice they had one son:

Ralph Bassett Descendant
Ralph Basset married Isabel

Ralph BassetDescendant
Ralph Basset married Margaret de Somery

Ralph BassetDescendant
Ralph Basset married Hawise

Ralph Basset married Lady Joan de Grey
Ralph Bassett
Ralph Basset married Alice Audley
Ralph Basset married Jeanne de Bretagne and Joan Beachamp (Extinct Lineage.) 
Margaret Basset married Sir John de Bohon no issue
Margaret Basset married Edmund StaffordDescendant
Matilda Basset married Sir William Hetriz
That is the Basset family ending with a extinct peerage.
How do I know this I am a Basset descendant. 
We come here to edit and add information to our ancestors. 

There is another Basset line from Ralph and Alice he is Thurstan Basset Descendant this line continues to William Mauduit, 8th Earl of Warwick Descendant William de Beauchamp, 9th Earl of Warwick Descendant 
There is no male Basset male namesake in his line The name died out.
We are here to educate people about what happened to the Basset and how it became extinct not to remove this from the Basset family origins and eventual extinction of the Basset name.

"How do I know this I am a Basset descendant" - your own personal knowledge is not a WP:RS. "We come here to edit and add information to our ancestors" - not that is not the purpose of Wikipedia. See WP:NOTGENEALOGY. Ealdgyth (talk) 19:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
Genealogical entries. Family histories should be presented only where appropriate to support the reader's understanding of a notable topic. Pipera (talk) 00:23, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
Globally people in many platforms use Wikipedia as a source of information to do the research into family trees this has been done since the beginning of Wikipedia. So, your reason is not correct and is used by sites like Geni.com etc for this purpose. Pipera (talk) 00:30, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
The article lacksconnection to:
Ralph Basset, 1st Lord Basset of Drayton (died 1265) Retrieved 2024-12-25
Ralph Basset, 2nd Baron Basset of Drayton Retrieved 2024-12-25
Ralph Basset, 3rd Baron Basset of Drayton Retrieved 2024-12-25
Who decides what is not appropriate, the links are removed and gone, and no one is the wiser on how they connect to the Basset lines and the extinction of the Basset name which your article fails to do.
The fact is this line becomes extinct:
 Pipera (talk) 00:52, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

That is a complete family tree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanderbilt_family


### Details of Notable Members of the Basset Family
Basset family Retrieved 2024-12-25.
Ralph Basset 2024-12-25
Richard Basset 2024-12-25
Ralph Basset (died 1265) Retrieved 2024-12-25
Ralph Basset, 1st Lord Basset of Drayton (died 1265) Retrieved 2024-12-25
Ralph Basset, 2nd Baron Basset of Drayton Retrieved 2024-12-25
Ralph Basset, 3rd Baron Basset of Drayton Retrieved 2024-12-25
These are internal and external links to other family members do you need clarification of what an internal link is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_and_external_links
I was in the process of correcting this.

How to link
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I done exactly that. 
So what I have done is allowed.

Pipera (talk) 
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#### Sub-header of links
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... or with the "semicolon" syntax, like this:

Sub-header of links
Link 1
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links_creation

Ralph Basset had only two sons they are Richard Basset and Thurstan Bassett, the other children mentioned fall within the Basset families of Geoffery Basset Lord of Weldon the son of Richard Basset and Matilda Ridel.

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Nicholas
Page n20
22. W. T. Reedy, The ltinerant Royal Judicature in England in the Reign of Henry I, 1100-35, unpublished doctoral thesis, The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md., U.S.A., 1963, pp. 321-31. For how these undertenancies passed to Ralph's sons Richard, Nicholas, Turstin and Ralph, a clerk, see Green, pp. 1456 and 231-2.

Restored original version because of the following:

Changing the sourced death information of "probably died in 1127 and was certainly dead by 1130" to "Basset probably was certainly dead by 1124." The original information was sourced to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography entry written by Judith Green which states "The year of his death is most likely to have been 1127; it antedated that of Abbot Vincent of Abingdon in the spring of 1130." This is source misrepresentation, as the article is now claiming that Green says something she did not.
"There is a Robert of Bucy who owned lands in Northamptonshire he was lord of Sutton Bassett as stated on record in the Domesday Collection, he held numerous estates in the counties of Northamptonshire, Leicestershire. the Basset family also held lands within the county of Northamptonshire. According to the records of Smeeton Westerby Manor in the year 1102, it states that the land was held by Richard Basset lands from Robert de Beaumont also held land of Robert de Bruci, this suggests a common connection between both families." has no discernable connection with Ralph Basset. This leaves aside the issues of grammar and other things in this section. "Domesday Collection"? "According to the records of Smeeton Westerby Manor in the year 1102" implies that there are surviving manorial records from Smeeton Westerby Manor from 1102??? News to me that we have those - I believe that the earliest are from the 13th century in England? This is sourced to a listing of Domesday Book entries from a village website - not a reliable source and we should not be using primary sources such as Domesday to make conclusions such as "this suggests a common connection", etc. See WP:PRIMARY.
We do not need to put the children in list format - see WP:NOTGENEALOGY - prose works fine for the information we need to convey - the children. We should not be going into detail about descents and grandchildren.
There is no source for the "married Matilda Ridel they had issue: "
"Thurstan Basset, Bassett of Chaddleworth and Berkshire, Wallingford." this is gibberish. The source for "Turstin" (not Thurstan) does not give a surname for him, and only says that he held lands around Wallingford. The added sources are Red Book Exchequer, which is a primary source, The Victoria County History of Berkshire vol. 4 (originally published 1924) which says "This manor, like many others belonging to Robert Doyley, seems to have passed to the Bassets, Richard Basset being in possession about 1158. It probably formed part of the six fees held of the honour of Wallingford in 1201 by Richard's son Thurstan, who died about 1222, leaving as his heirs six daughters." which is about a totally DIFFERENT Thurstan (the Turstin who held land at Wallingford, son of the Ralph who died around 1127, is detailed on p. 167 of Domesday Descendants by Keats-Rohan, who says that this Turstin died before 1165 and was succeeded by his son Richard, who died 1176 - who is likely the "Richard Basset being in possession about 1158" in the source). The third added source is this Fine Roll entry for Henry III which utterly cannot be the Thurstan/Turstin son of Ralph because the reign of Henry III is 1216-1272!!!!. The last source added is yet another primary source here - a charter from 1205, which again, cannot be this Turstin.
"Basset also had daughters, but their names are not known" has been disconnected from its source
"as stated in the Basset Charters" is unsourced
"Citations" and "References" are permitted headings for those sections, and "Bibliography" is actually slightly depreciated, as it should be used for works BY the subject of the article.
Please stop with your unhelpful and against policy edits. Ealdgyth (talk) 14:58, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
|children           = Richard BassetThurstanNicholasRalph
}}
Ralph Basset (sometimes Bassett; died c. 1124) was a medieval English royal justice during the reign of King Henry I of England. He was a native of Normandy and may have come to Henry's notice while Henry held land in Normandy prior to becoming king. Basset is first mentioned in documents about 1102, and from then until his death around 1127, he was frequently employed as a royal justice. His son Richard Basset also became a royal judge.

Basset probably was certainly dead by 1124. He is said to have taken ill at Northampton, and to have been clothed in a monk's habit while on his deathbed. He was buried in the chapterhouse at Abingdon Abbey, which he left a bequest to. A copy of a charter from Archbishop Theobald of Bec, recorded in a cartulary, records most of Basset's manors. While most of the estates seem to have been held by Basset as a sub-tenant, four of the estates appear to have been held as a tenant-in-chief. These estates were not very valuable, and Basset can not be considered a baron, although his son Richard managed through marriage to become a member of the barons. He held lands in nine counties, perhaps centred in Berkshire.

Basset was the founding member of a dynasty of royal servants who continued to serve the kings of England until around 1250. The medieval writer and chronicler Orderic Vitalis described Basset as one of the new men of King Henry, who "raised them, so to say, from the dust".
Only the first initial of his wife's name is known, which was A. There is a Robert of Bucy who owned lands in Northamptonshire he was lord of Sutton Bassett as stated on record in the Domesday Collection, he held numerous estates in the counties of Northamptonshire, Leicestershire. the Basset family also held lands within the county of Northamptonshire. According to the records of Smeeton Westerby Manor in the year 1102, it states that the land was held by Richard Basset lands from Robert de Beaumont also held land of Robert de Bruci, this suggests a common connection between both families. .
Richard received the Norman estates, but not most of the English lands, perhaps because he married an heiress..

## Marriage and Progeny
Ralph Basset had the following children:

Richard Basset  married Matilda Ridel they had issue:
Thurstan Basset, Bassett of Chaddleworth and Berkshire, Wallingford.   
Nicholas.
Ralph who became a cleric.
Basset also had daughters, but their names are not known as stated in the Basset Charters.

Letcombe Bassett A History of the County of Berkshire: Volume 4. Originally published by Victoria County History, London, 1924.https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/berks/vol4/pp217-222

Newman, Charlotte A. (1988). The Anglo-Norman Nobility in the Reign of Henry I: The Second Generation. Philadelphia, PA: University of Pennsylvania Press. ISBN 0-8122-8138-1.
Reedy, William T. (1969–1970). "The First Two Bassetts of Weldon, Part One". Northamptonshire Past and Present. 4 (4): 241–245.
Reedy, William T. (1995). "Introduction". Basset Charters c. 1120 to 1250. Publications of the Pipe Roll Society New Series. Vol. L. Pipe Roll Society. ISBN 978-0-901134-12-7.
Now I can understand a few items removed but 100% removed? When this is available on all genealogical websites without removal.
Also, in future raise a discussion before removing information from a main article.  Pipera (talk) 17:42, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Editing policy - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_policy
nstead of removing content from an article or reverting a new contribution, consider:
Rephrasing or copy-editing to improve grammar or more accurately represent the sources
Formatting or sourcing on the spot
Tagging it as necessary
Correcting inaccuracies, while keeping the rest of the content intact
Merging or moving the content to a more relevant existing article, or splitting the content to an entirely new article
Adding another point of view to the existing points of view to make the article more balanced
Requesting a citation by adding the  tag, or adding any other appropriate cleanup tags to content you cannot fix yourself
Doing a quick search for sources and adding a citation yourself
Repairing a dead link if a new URL for the page or an archive of the old one can be located
Merging the entire article into another article with the original article turned into a redirect as described at performing a merge
Fixing errors in wikitext or formatting Pipera (talk) 17:50, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

[edit]
Basset probably died in 1127 and was certainly dead by 1130. He is said to have taken ill at Northampton, and to have been clothed in a monk's habit while on his deathbed. He was buried in the chapterhouse at Abingdon Abbey, which he left a bequest to. A copy of a charter from Archbishop Theobald of Bec, recorded in a cartulary, records most of Basset's manors. While most of the estates seem to have been held by Basset as a sub-tenant, four of the estates appear to have been held as a tenant-in-chief. These estates were not very valuable, and Basset can not be considered a baron, although his son Richard managed through marriage to become a member of the barons. He held lands in nine counties, perhaps centred in Berkshire.
Basset was the founding member of a dynasty of royal servants who continued to serve the kings of England until around 1250. The medieval writer and chronicler Orderic Vitalis described Basset as one of the new men of King Henry, who "raised them, so to say, from the dust". Among Basset's four sons were Richard Basset, and Nicholas. Another son was Ralph who became a cleric. A fourth son was Turstin, who held land around Wallingford. Basset also had daughters, but their names are not known. Only the first initial of his wife's name is known, which was A. Richard received the Norman estates, but not most of the English lands, perhaps because he married an heiress.
FYI Ralph had only (two) verified children and unnamed daughters his sons are Richard Basset and Thurstan there is mention of four children, a son who was a cleric and a son Nicholas in any records.
The first paragraph reads like a novel and needs to be written historically:
"These estates were not very valuable, and Basset can not be considered a baron, although his son Richard managed through marriage to become a member of the barons. He held lands in nine counties, perhaps centered in Berkshire.
His son Richard was never titles Baron of Basset; any titles are in later generations further up the line from him.
Another, Ralph Bassets wife name is Alice de Buci she is the daughter of Robert de Buci.
Further, Ralph Basset's father is Robert Basset, there are common landholding estates that have passed to the Basset families form the de Buci lineage, as well as land holdings that were managed by Richard Basset mentioning Robert de Buci.
https://opendomesday.org/name/robert-of-bucy/ Domesday Book had landholdings in Northamptonshire. Sutton [Bassett], Stoke, Northamptonshire Sutton [Bassett] | Domesday Book https://opendomesday.org/place/SP7790/sutton-bassett/  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weldon,_Northamptonshire The village is listed in the Domesday Book as 'Weledene', in the Colby Hundred. The head of the manor before 1066 is listed as 'Weldon', likely Anglo-Saxon. The Lord in 1066 is listed as 'Northmann', perhaps an unnamed Viking or Dane. The Lord, and Tenant-in-Chief, in 1086 was Robert de Bucy (Buci), a Norman.
The Battle Abbey roll, with some account of the Norman lineages by Battle Abbey; Cleveland, Catherine Lucy Wilhelmina Powlett, Duchess of, 1819-1901 Publication date 1889
Page 106
Bushy, or Bussy, as Leland gives it, from Buci, in Normandy. Robert de Buci held a great barony in Northamptonshire and Leicestershire in 1086 (Domesday) : but left no heir save a daughter, married to Ralph Basset, Justiciary of England under Henry I. (Mon. ii. 190).
https://archive.org/details/battleabbeyrollw01battuoft/battleabbeyrollw01battuoft/page/106/mode/1up?q=Buci+
https://www.1066.co.nz/Mosaic%20DVD/library/battleroll.htm
Robert de Buci
Serion de Burci 
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~framland/genealogy/framland/fs3.htm
Dalby Hundred Robert and Ralph same Hundred. Richard Bassett same Hundred

This is historically correct.  Pipera (talk) 18:57, 26 December 2024 (UTC)