# Talk:Timor-Leste

Following on from the recent move of this page, there are a lot of other pages that will need subsequent moves. At the earlier close, this included the mass move discussion linked above, which grouped a bunch of pages which have the adjective rather than the name of the country (ie. "East Timorese" rather than "East Timor"). Before we kick all of those off again, I think it would make more sense to come to a consensus on which adjective we should use for the country. I've seen a few options proposed, including:

A: East Timorese (ie. no change)
B: Timorese
C: Timor-Lestese
D: something else?
From looking through sources, I've seen roughly equal usage of A and B, with very little - if any - use of C. My current thinking is that B is the best option, as while it introduces a bit of ambiguity with the Indonesian side of the island, it's versatile enough to cover all periods of the country's history, whether it was known as East Timor or Timor-Leste at the time. But I'm keen to get opinions and hopefully settle a consensus so that the subsequent moves of those pages are much more straightforward. Just having this as a discussion at the moment but can upgrade it to a formal RfC if needed. Turnagra (talk) 20:25, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

I think B is the best option, post-2002 demonym is naturally disambiguated with pre-2002 demonym. B is also the official option, even though common use may be more mixed. Kenneth Kho (talk) 21:07, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
Where is C from? Google isn't showing anything for it. The RM saw the opinion voiced that Timorese was ambiguous, which seems true. It is worse at covering all periods of the country's history because of that ambiguity, as it might often refer to the larger meaning. CMD (talk) 00:42, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
I recall seeing C pop up in some of the move requests from the last close - personally I haven't seen it anywhere in actual usage.
I can appreciate the ambiguity that B brings, but I don't think it's that big of a deal in the scheme of things as the context should make it clear in most cases. Turnagra (talk) 04:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
It takes awhile. Sometimes reading older texts (19th centuryish), you have to search for the mentioned towns to figure out which part of Timor they're talking about. Many uses here might end up similar. What is the reason to change the demonym? CMD (talk) 06:08, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
I think it's worth having the discussion now that the country has finally been renamed to Timor-Leste - given the mixed usage and apparent suitability of both, we may decide that it's better to use Timorese over East Timorese to better cover both names. Recent sources do seem to prefer the former slightly, but not enough that it's an open-and-shut case. There are definitely some articles (eg. 2022 East Timorese presidential election) where changing it to Timorese wouldn't cause any further ambiguity, and while there are some where it would I think it's easily manageable with hatnotes or the lead. We still use the demonym "Irish" for things relating to Ireland despite the risk of confusion with Northern Ireland. Turnagra (talk) 07:25, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
The country was renamed to Timor-Leste sometime around 2002. Since then a new demonym has not emerged, and the article move here does not affect that. Timor-Leste and East Timorese are used together, [17][18][19]. East Timorese is used in the government translation of relevant laws into English. In the last discussion we already had about this, it was noted by multiple users that there should be a strong basis of sources that indicate a change should be made. Opening a discussion without them doesn't move that forward. CMD (talk) 07:37, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
It is worth noting that in two of the links, Timorese was subsequently used, and the law cited was a 2002 law. Timor-Leste government uses Timorese today. [20] Holy See uses Timorese during Pope's recent visit. [21] UN uses Timorese. [22]. CIA uses Timorese. [23] East Timorese would refer to the demonym in the pre-2002 province, while Timorese would refer to the demonym in the post-2002 country. Northern Irish would refer to the demonym in the British constituent country, Irish would refer to the demonym in the independent country. Kenneth Kho (talk) 11:53, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
Plenty of people calling themselves Irish in Northern Ireland. Anyway, we know Timorese is in official use, I pointed that out in the 1999 East Timorese crisis RM. What we don't have is evidence that is more common or otherwise worth the increased ambiguity. CMD (talk) 12:04, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
Timorese is common name[24], ngrams hits for "Timorese" (including "East Timorese") are 3x ngram hits for "East Timorese", this means "Timorese" (excluding "East Timorese") is twice as common as "East Timorese". Kenneth Kho (talk) 12:20, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
Why do you believe that those refer just to the East Timorese people and not to those in West Timor? Presumably as this discussion is about use in article titles this is a primary topic argument, noting Timorese curently redirects to Timor. CMD (talk) 12:34, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
Because searching "Timorese" on Google mostly yields results on East Timor or Timor Leste, and not the island of Timor or the regency of West Timor. That redirect should be fixed. Kenneth Kho (talk) 12:45, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
West Timor is not a regency. As far as I'm aware there is not actually a strong West Timorese identity. It's possible it does refer more, you could open an RfD. CMD (talk) 12:53, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
I don't think RfD is the place to handle it, if there is consensus for option B, I will edit the content of the redirect page from #REDIRECT Timor to #REDIRECT Timor-Leste. Kenneth Kho (talk) 13:06, 26 January 2025 (UTC)
From years working there, it's not really ever an issue. Citizens of Timor-Leste refer to themselves, in English, as Timorese, while folk from West Timor refer to themselves, in English, as Indonesian. If pressed, they might say they are Indonesian but come from Timor Barat though I have heard West Timorese used but that is only if speaking inside Timor-Leste to differentiate. Ex nihil (talk) 10:09, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
Timorese is what should be used - it is by and large only used for people from East Timor. As others have pointed out, those from West Timor tend to identify with their country of Indonesia as a whole, rather than their island specifically. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 13:30, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I was checking this article for WP:OTD and saw that it has a "more citations needed" orange banner above the "Fauna" section, and other uncited statements. I think Chipmunkdavis was the GAN nominator: are you interested in taking a look? Should this go to WP:GAR? Z1720 (talk) 16:21, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

The fauna section was a good faith but likely undue addition, the solution to that tag is likely to remove that subsection. If there are incited statements elsewhere I can take a look. CMD (talk) 23:02, 19 November 2025 (UTC)