# Talk:Spider-Man (2002 film)

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect SM (2002 film) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 March 26#SM (2002 film) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:46, 26 March 2022 (UTC)


### Spider-Man (2002 film)
Article (edit | visual edit | history) ·  Article talk (edit | history) ·  Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review
 Result: Keep. All concerns have been addressed. Femke (talk) 07:30, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
There is currently a citation needed template in the visual effects section, the music section is quite empty and per WP:IMDb it is not a reliable source. Sahaib (talk) 06:37, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

@Sahaib: I have removed the information regarding the Citation needed template, and have added a bit of Spider-Man: Original Motion Picture Score's lede to the Music section. I'm not sure what you mean by WP:IMDb though. — SirDot (talk) 06:52, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
@SirDot:, IMDb is cited in the Accolades section. Sahaib (talk) 06:58, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
@Sahaib: Thanks. I've removed the ref. — SirDot (talk) 07:00, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

The redirect Spider-Man (Raimi-Verse) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 6 § Spider-Man (Raimi-Verse) until a consensus is reached.  Steel1943 (talk) 20:39, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

The redirect You know, I'm something of a scientist myself! has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 3 § You know, I'm something of a scientist myself! until a consensus is reached.  Utopes (talk / cont) 16:29, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I think we should need to discuss a potential rewrite of the article's plot section. At the moment, the current word count is 580 words, but the past few edits increased the word count to at least 629 words. I also have some concerns we should address: for example in the scene regarding Ben's death, the important part is that he is carjacked and killed by the thief that Peter allowed to escape; how Peter lets said thief escape, not so much. There's also Wikipedia:How to streamline a plot summary, which is an essay on how we should remove unnecessary words in plot summaries such as this one. If there are any other thoughts or suggestions on how we should revise the plot summary, please post your thoughts here. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:08, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

I did a pretty thorough streamlining and trimming of the section recently. @Shamus248 felt that my editing reduced the quality of the section, and reverted the majority of my edits. The section now—after some editing by @Sjones23—is fairly similar to my version, and I'm happy to keep it as is, though I may make some very small tweaks.
I think the only question is whether @Shamus248 feels strongly that the section needs to go back to their version. If so, they need to provide an explanation. When reverting my edits, their edit summary was, "this was fine as it was before y'all took a hatchet to it". When I asked for clarification, they said, "I don't have any *issues* with your edits or anyone else's edits. I just thought the plot summary was solid as it was."
@Shamus248, I'm not judging you or your editing. I just want to get @Sjones23 updated on what's been happening with the section and the communication we've had. Wafflewombat (talk) 08:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
To be clear, go ahead and undo any of my edits you wish. I won't kick up a fuss. I will, however, offer some input.
Some footnotes I think are important to remain in the summary RE: Ben's death: i think it's important to mention that Peter is cheated out of his $$, the event promoter is robbed, Peter lets the thief escape in retaliation, then that same thief kills Ben. We certainly don't need to bloat up the summary with how this effects Peter, just that it's an important chain of events, so I think those 4 pieces are all necessary to retain. Shamus248 (talk) 16:47, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
a small tweak i'd suggest is "Peter is cheated out of his earnings" as opposed to "cheated out of his cash reward" but that's just me nitpicking lol Shamus248 (talk) 16:49, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
As a side note, I've already asked the Film WikiProject for their input on the matter here. Also, both "tries to secure" and "tries securing" might be correct, but I could be wrong. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
How about "bids for"? Otherwise I'd go with "tries to secure", it’s 564 words long, an extra word isn't going to kill it. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:55, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
The "bids for" part might work. I've implemented it. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
I feel the new version is awkward. Here it is:
Meanwhile, Harry's father and Oscorp founder, Norman Osborn, bids for an important military contract.
With all due respect, I'm still in the dark about the problems with the version I've suggested. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated:
Meanwhile, Harry's father, Norman Osborn, tries to secure an important military contract for Oscorp, the company he founded.
Yes, there are a lot of commas, but we haven't been able to avoid that with any of our versions!
I don't know if y'all pay attention to false titles, but "Oscorp founder" is not a title (like Doctor, President, etc) and I would suggest we avoid using it as one. Wafflewombat (talk) 00:08, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
The plot section looks pretty good, nice work. Frankly I'm impressed that the discussion is not arguing about bloating to over a thousand words like I usually see and is actually a sensible discussion about how to include a few extra small details while keeping it tight and concise. Keep calm and WP:STREAMLINE on. 
That lead section though is a bit much, does it really need to be so long? WP:LEAD is supposed to summarize key points! I see the lead section is about twice as long as when it was first GA reviewed, but only marginally bigger than when it was reevaluated for GA status. Maybe not all that production and development really needs to be in the lead section. I did revert one recent bit of lead section bloat (from an anon editor who seems to be a huge Blade fan and spammed similar edits all over the place). I would suggest that mentioning Spider-Verse is fine, but explaining the premise of an entirely different film in lead section of this article is not essential.  I'll just leave a general suggestion that perhaps after you've got the plot sorted you might also reconsider the lead section and refocus it on the most important points. Cheers. -- 109.77.200.184 (talk) 23:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. You read my mind! I was going to tackle the lengthy lead after the plot discussion is done. Wafflewombat (talk) 23:49, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
If it's any use I wrote this for my FAC sandbox on this film, though I have too many other projects on the go to do any more with it in the short term. This is 100 words longer than current, could maybe be whittled down a few, but I think what it adds is a greater level of characterisation, motivation, and progression to enable the uninitiated to fully understand without having seen the film and does this by removing unnecessary stuff like "where he is confronted by Harry, who grabs a gun. Before Harry can fire," where the gun part adds nothing.
During a school trip to a Columbia University laboratory in New York City, with his friends Mary Jane Watson and Harry Osborn, the intelligent, mild-mannered but regularly bullied high school senior Peter Parker is bitten by a genetically engineered spider, causing him to fall ill. The following morning, Peter has gained superhuman abilities, including strength, speed, the ability to shoot spider webs from his wrists, and "spider-sense", a pre-cognitive danger warning. Harry's father, Norman, is at risk of losing his company, Oscorp, unless he can demonstrate the effectiveness of his performance-enhancing serum for a vital military contract. In desperation, he tests the serum on himself, gaining superhuman physical attributes, but develops a split-personality, the power-hungry Green Goblin. To secure Oscorp's future, Goblin uses his advanced weaponry and glider to bomb his rival, Quest Aerospace.
Peter uses his new abilities to beat his bully into submission, and dismisses his uncle Ben when he attempts to convince Peter that "with great power comes great responsibility." Having been secretly in love with Mary Jane since childhood, Peter enters an underground wrestling competition to impress her by buying a car with his winnings, and easily defeats his opponent, but the promoter cheats Peter out of his earnings. In retaliation, Peter allows a thief to escape with the promoter's money. Peter later stumbles across a mortally wounded Ben, who was shot during a carjacking, and ruthlessly pursues and beats the carjacker before realizing it is the thief he let go. The thief attempts to flee but falls out of a window to his death.
Reflecting on Ben's words, Peter uses his abilities to fight crime in the costumed identity of Spider-Man. Following his graduation, he also begins working as a photographer for J. Jonah Jameson at the Daily Bugle, selling exclusive Spider-Man photos. With Oscorp thriving, the board sells the company without Osborn's knowledge and forces his resignation. The Goblin attacks the city's World Unity Festival, assassinating the entire board and bringing him into conflict with Spider-Man. The Goblin escapes while Spider-Man rescues Mary Jane from mortal danger, causing her to develop an infatuation with him, to the dismay of her now-boyfriend, Harry. Spider-Man later saves Mary Jane from an assault and the pair kiss. Goblin fins and subdues Spider-Man but leaves him unharmed, offering to work together and warning him the public will eventually turn on him. Even so, Spider-Man refuses and receives a slash on his wrist in the ensuing fight before Goblin flees.
During a Thanksgiving meal attended by Peter, Harry, Mary Jane, and Peter's Aunt May, Norman notices the cut on Peter's arm and realizes he is Spider-Man. He leaves but not before insulting Mary Jane to Harry, who does not defend her, ending their relationship. Determined to torment Peter for his perceived betrayal, Goblin attacks Aunt May, hospitalizing her. While she recovers, Peter and Mary Jane bond by her bedside, but Harry catches the pair holding hands and reveals to Norman her importance to Peter. Goblin kidnaps Mary Jane and holds her hostage atop the Queensboro Bridge alongside a Roosevelt Island Tram car full of children. Goblin drops both simultaneously to force Spider-Man to choose one, but he succeeds in saving both. Goblin tackles Spider-Man into a building and prepares to kill him, but after he threatens to torture and kill Mary Jane, Spider-Man overwhelms and defeats Goblin. Norman reveals his true identity and begs Peter's forgiveness, but he refuses and the Goblin activates his glider to impale Peter. Warned by his spider-sense, Peter dodges and Goblin is impaled on the glider, making a final request that Peter keeps his secret from Harry. Spider-Man returns Norman's body to his home but is caught by Harry, who assumes Spider-Man murdered his father and swears vengeance against him.
At Norman's funeral, Mary Jane confesses she loves Peter and kisses him, but he rejects her out of concern that she will be targeted by his enemies. Peter walks away, while Mary Jane shows a look of recognition about their kiss. Peter reiterates that "with great power, comes great responsibility" as he swings through the city.

Darkwarriorblake (talk) 23:05, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for sharing this. What is an FAC sandbox? Wafflewombat (talk) 01:27, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Top right of the page if you're on a browser, has your links and one is Sandbox. It's not FAC specific it's just where I do my FAC workDarkwarriorblake (talk) 08:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
I asked for help at the Teahouse with the thief sentence. The feedback I got was that this is the best version:
"Soon after, Peter's Uncle Ben is killed by a man who robbed the wrestling event, and whom Peter allowed to escape."
Sjones23, would you support this version?
Wafflewombat (talk) 23:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I've incorporated most of the suggested version in the sentence regarding the thief, which now reads: "Soon after, Peter's uncle Ben is killed by a man who robbed the wrestling event, and whom Peter let escape." If there are any other suggestions, please let me know. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Looks good! Thank you. Wafflewombat (talk) 05:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
I posted about the following sentence at the Teahouse:
Meanwhile, Harry's father and Oscorp founder, Norman Osborn, bids for an important military contract.
Only one editor replied, and suggested this version:
Meanwhile, Harry's father Norman tries to secure an important military contract for Oscorp, the company he founded. Wafflewombat (talk) 20:52, 17 July 2024 (UTC)


### Section break
Regarding the sentence for Norman Osborn, how about something like this?
"Meanwhile, Harry's father Norman tests a performance-enhancing chemical on himself in an attempt to secure a military contract for his corporation, Oscorp. The chemical, however, causes him to go insane."
Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm wondering whether it makes sense to keep this image on the page. It is mentioned in the text, but the twin towers are so small that you (or at least I) have to zoom in to see them. Click here to jump straight to the image in context.
Update: I have removed the image, and have two additional reasons for doing so:

1. I feel the description of the image in the text is sufficient to explain why the poster was recalled by Sony.
2. Non-free images like this should be used sparingly and only when absolutely necessary.
Wafflewombat (talk) 02:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)