# Talk:Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U

I do have a source for this, since I don't know how to add citations.
1. https://www.ssbwiki.com/Super_Smash_Bros._(series)
2. www.romajidesu.com/translator (Just simply drag the Japanese sentence, wait for the translation, hover or click on 大, and then 乱闘. And it will give you Great Fray Smash Brothers (Dai rantō Sumasshu Burazāzu, 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ) --PSI Thunder (talk) 17:04, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

This message is actually rather stale, since the reversion in question was made almost a month ago. If you would like to reapply the change on Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U, please do so. As for my opinion on these, SSBWiki is not a reliable source, while romajidesu seems okay; it doesn't have to be included as an inline citation, though. Thanks for trying. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 17:17, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Can you find an actual reliable source that states "Great Fray"? And if you ask me, why are we using unofficial translations anyway? Simply going with the romaji is enough. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:18, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
Tell me, where's your source for Superfight, numerous wiki sites I went said Great Fray. And even the Zelda Wiki says it, no other sites I went to confirm Superfight.
I'll show you a list of what I mean:
1.https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Super_Smash_Bros._Melee
2.https://www.ssbwiki.com/Super_Smash_Bros._(series)
3.https://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._(series)
4.https://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._series --PSI Thunder (talk) 23:38, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

This discussion has been moved from my user Talk page to the relevant article's Talk page. Please post all subsequent replies here. Thanks. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 23:40, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
You don't understand what we're telling you. External wikis are unreliable sources as those websites are also community-driven. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 00:00, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm just asking where the source for Superfight is because that doesn't seem to be official either, and the non-wiki sites I went to say Great Melee also.--PSI Thunder (talk) 00:25, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Comment None of the sources above are reliable or suitable for a translation. Secondly, a translation shouldn't even be listed unless an official source exists for it. That includes the currently listed "Superfight" translation. Only the actual Japanese title and its Hepburn should be there, unless there's a source. In effect, the statement "Known in Japan as Some English Text" is simply incorrect. It is known in Japan by it's Japanese name, in Japanese. They don't go around literally saying "Superfight" in English. (Feel free to correct me on that with a reliable source though!) Recommendation is to remove the translation until a reliable source appears. Other wikis are, by definition, unreliable as user generated. Also just a random comment, Google translates the Japanese Wiki's article as "Grand Slaughter" :) Which is way cooler. In a different spot it translates to "Big Brawl". This is why only an official translation should be used. -- ferret (talk) 00:46, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
This is what I argued. We shouldn't be using any sort of unofficial translation here. Simply having the kanji+romaji is all we need, not some sort of unofficial Engrish that some user thinks is more correct that other readings. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:07, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
If what I said was "unofficial engrish" then why did you keep changing Great Fray to Superfight. Oh right, because you wanted to me to provide an "official" or "reliable source" of info that confirms this. I tried searching and there was nothing I could possibly find. I looked for a source for Superfight, again... nothing I could find. I even asked you where the source was and there was not a single straight answer. So my point is none of the Smash Bros. pages should use either terms until there's as least an official confirmation of either the two. I would also like to take the time to apologize for the huge misunderstanding, I added what I thought was correct and turned out false. I will say though, I didn't add Superfight there, someonelse did. --PSI Thunder (talk) 01:34, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

I never argued that was in any way better, I was simply reverting back to status quo until you provided a reliable source for your own claims. I already stated that it's best to not even have any of these there, as none of them are official. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 02:04, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
This article title doesn't even need a Japanese translation. It has an English title and is primarily known by this English title. It's not necessary to provide titles in the language of their origin if the product has received an English title for use in English-speaking regions.  czar 03:45, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

I notice an IP is consistently changing Bayonetta from belonging to Sega to belonging to Platinum Games. My stance on the issue is that Platinum Games had partnered with Sega during the development of SSB4 while developing Bayonetta. Thus, it is necessary to leave these statements alone. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 20:41, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

This was discussed before, and I believe we simply decided to go with who owns the IP, which for Bayonetta happens to be Sega. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:09, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

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Everybody i have seen calls it 5 but i just wanted to ask you guys before changing since that's pretty major.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reshil B. (talk • contribs) 00:07, 12 June 2018 (UTC) 

It's fifth. -- ferret (talk) 00:08, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
We need a lot more people to decide so wait until tomorrow when we get game play and hopefully title. (I know this is off topic but please don't be called smash switch)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reshil B. (talk • contribs) 00:11, 12 June 2018 (UTC) 

Smash doesn't play like any traditional fighting game currently available such as Street Fighter and Marvel vs Capcom. This is because it isn't accurate to call smash a fighting game, but instead a party game. Masahiro Sakurai himself even said that Smash is not a fighting game (https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/21/sakurai-says-smash-bros-isnt-fighting-game-completely-different-label-talks-game-development-fighting-genre-and-value-unpredictability/) and a variety of other sources that you can find yourself will confirm this. Fighting games have a complex move set and require typically more than two move inputs to complete actions. Smash doesn't do this, its meant for people and friends to try and make the other players lose the most amount of lives rather than trying to wither down their health bar all the way down. Fighting games also focus purely on one on one combat and don't include up to the 8 players that smash titles support and encourage. Smash doesn't play like a fighting game but a party game instead. It's inaccurate to call smash a fighting game.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.155.45.162 (talk) 20:37, 6 February 2019 (UTC) 

It's still a fighting game at its heart no matter how you put it. The exact mechanics do not change this, and the differences are (or should be) properly explained in prose. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 04:53, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

As per WP:ALTNAME, "significant alternative names for the topic should be mentioned in the article" and "the title can be followed in the first sentence by one or two alternative names in parentheses". I see no reason not to do this here: it's consistent with many other articles and helps clear things up for any non-knowledgeable person who may have come here from the Smash 4 redirect. Unlike "Smash Melee" or "SSBM", "Smash 4" isn't exactly a trivial shortening or acronym, as it references both the games' place in the series and the word "for", and is also unique in that it collectively describes two games. I don't know on what grounds the use of a common, collective name for the games (and the one overwhelmingly adopted by the community) would be removed from the article. Surely not on verifiability grounds, as it would be trivial (but probably unnecessary) to provide a reference to a site such as this one or even to a commonly cited reliable source such as Polygon. The argument that the sentence itself is too long and unwieldy doesn't hold much water either, as there are  existing cases (see Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) where the first sentence pushes the limits of  readability but is ultimately effective in expressing all the alternative names one may encounter. 
I think I've made a good case for this text's inclusion and don't wish to speculate further as to what issue could conceivably be taken with it. @Soetermans I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. ErrorDestroyer (talk) 18:18, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Hey ErrorDestroyer, thanks for starting a discussion. My family and I are feeling a bit under the weather, I'll try to respond properly later today. Maybe ask for input at WT:VG? I feel like there needs to be some consensus on this matter finally. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 09:39, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Sure, take as much time as you need. ErrorDestroyer (talk) 03:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
I agree with the inclusion. Even Nintendo themselves have made references to it such as the "Free Four All" event in Smash Ultimate which focuses on content introduced in Smash 4. There's also the fact that it's the collective game's de facto official subtitle in Japan, albeit spelled "for" as part of the homophonic pun on "for 3DS"/"for Wii U" (a pun Sakurai himself even acknowledged back in the day). You'll often see it abbreviated even in official sources as "スマブラfor" ("Smash Bros. for") - which even the Japanese Wikipedia acknowledges - rather than the longer "3DS/Wii U" collective title used in the West. I thought my addition of such a mention in this edit a few years ago was perfectly succinct. As far as I can tell, it was well within WP:COMMONNAME. I don't know who ended up removing it or why. VinLAURiA (talk) 13:44, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
I 100% agree with everything you say here, ErrorDestroyer. If you look through the page's history, I actually edited the page to include the name Smash 4 a few times, but they both got removed. Regardless, I feel your arguments are sound, I personally feel this inclusion should be add to the page 100% HaveYouHeardAboutTheBird (talk) 22:12, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

The redirect Super Smash Bros. DS has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 13 § Super Smash Bros. DS until a consensus is reached.  (Oinkers42) (talk) 15:01, 13 February 2024 (UTC)