# Talk:SG-1000

In the info-box to the right in the article, it says "Memory 1kB RAM, 16kB VRAM" I thought 16 kB sounded like a lot, especially compared to the NES system who was supposed to be technically superior and only had 2 kB of video ram, so I read a little more about both systems. I found that further down in this article it says "The system also includes 8 kbit of random access memory (RAM) and 16 kbit of video RAM" Which leads me to think that 16kB is wrong. What probably happened is that 16 kbit (which is the same as 2 kB) was confused with 16 kB, and thus the info-box got the wrong information. Somebody more knowledgeable than me on the subject should probably fix this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4643:A16D:0:EC73:C475:4F44:BB1D (talk) 20:19, 2 June 2015 (UTC) 

It has 1KB main RAM, and 8 16Kx1 DRAM making a total of 16KB(kilobyte) VRAM. I agree including "kilobit" when talking about RAM size is confusing.
To prevent further article reverts like this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=SG-1000&oldid=738944434
Here is proof: http://www.smspower.org/misc/sg1000-01.jpg (linked from http://www.smspower.org/forums/13428-SG1000IIRGBModsAndConsoleRevisions ) You can see 8 MB8118 chips, each is 16Kx1.
Of note is also that it's simply impossible to make SG1000 games with only 2KB VRAM. For that, let's break down the graphics of Girl's Garden, a SG-1000 game that currently has a screenshot on the wikipedia SG1000 page:
768 bytes for the nametable, 6144 bytes for the tile patterns, 6144 bytes for the tile colors, 2048 bytes for the sprite patterns, 128 bytes for the sprite attributes. Total: 15232 bytes. For technical reference of the videochip, see Texas Instruments TMS9918. - 77.172.185.216 (talk) 00:04, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
smspower.org is not going to be considered a reliable source, but this is. It's from Sega of Japan themselves. In it, we do have 1 KB RAM and 2 KB VRAM listed (16 Kbit). I don't see how you get 16 KB VRAM out of what you have, but I'm not terribly tech-savvy. In any regard, Wikipedia relies on reliable sources for information to be listed. I would want to see a reliable source that says 16KB VRAM, not 2. Red Phoenix let's talk... 02:18, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
It doesn't matter where that PCB photo comes from when it's a fact that it's a Sega SG1000(1st rev) PCB. Google around for another if you need a more reliable source. Anyone can see the eight Fujitsu MB8118-12 16K x 1 Dynamic RAM chips. Even if you're not tech savvy, you can google for MB8118 and understand its meaning. FWIW: you can see the video chip on the left, the TMM2009P is 1KB RAM, the Z80 CPU is in the middle, and the 2 chips on the bottom-left part are Transistor–transistor logic, the one to the left of it is the SN76489A sound chip. Also, either please invite a Wikipedian more tech savvy(I can understand an anonymous person like me can be considered unreliable), or please take some time to read the TMS9918A technical specification to be able to understand exactly why screen mode 2 needs 16KB of VRAM.
/edit/ In case anyone wonders why the newest revision SG-1000-II PCB looks so much different, it's cost-reduced. The Sega 315-5066 is the video chip+sound chip combined, and you can see the 16KB VRAM to the left of it is now 2 chips instead of 8, NEC D41416C is 16384 x 4-bit DRAM.
/edit2/ The zoomed in PCB photo on the SG1000 article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TMS9928A_01.jpg is not SG1000 by the way. I believe this is not in error, but it's meant for just showing the video chip. The proof that it's not a SG1000 is the TMM2356P under it: that's a ROM chip. The SG1000 motherboard doesn't have any ROM (ROM is provided on cartridges). The two NEC D416C are each 16384 x 1 bit DRAM, I'd expect 6 more outside view.
/edit3/ Sorry for being so verbose, I'm trying to post as much as I can to help you(+others) to the 16KB side :)
I looked at the internet archive wayback machine for sega.jp, and the first snapshot is from 2013. So we can rule out that their error was copied from Wikipedia(started mentioning 2KB from 2015 onward). I also had a look for other SG-1000 articles:
https://segaretro.org/SG-1000 mentioned 17KB total RAM
http://sega.wikia.com/wiki/SG-1000 1KB RAM + 16KB VRAM
http://www43.tok2.com/home/cmpslv/Sg1000/EnrSG.htm 1KB RAM + 16KB VRAM (very technical, includes schematics)
http://www.videogameconsolelibrary.com/pg80-sg1000.htm#page=specs 2KB RAM(error) + 16KB VRAM
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=1257 2KB RAM(error) + 16KB VRAM
Looks like there are disagreements on the amount of main RAM there, but each lists 16KB VRAM. Regards, 77.172.185.216 (talk) 19:01, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
I agree it's absolutely obvious that the article on sega.jp is simply wrong with regards to the VRAM size. I can imagine that the webpage was created by people who were born after the SG-1000 was already long dead. They may have used other (outside Sega) wrong sources for the VRAM figure. The same article about the MKII and the SC-3000 does say 16kB VRAM. Another hint... Anyway, again, it's obvious. The TMS9918A can't work with only 2kB VRAM and the PCB shots confirm the 16kB too. As do the schematics. There's no doubt about the 2kB being wrong. So, I strongly suggest to go for the 16kB VRAM before there's any "proof" other than the sega.jp webpage. Which is no proof at all, if you ask me. ManuelBilderbeek (talk) 20:12, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
I agree with this assessment. Furthermore I do in good faith believe that Sega had put out information that is just plain incorrect. People have disassembled SG-1000s and have done comprehensive studies on the system and have found that the system has vastly different specifications from what is stated in the infobox. However everytime we try to correct it it gets reverted. If wrong information is considered correct by Wikipedia and those with the correct information is powerless to correct it, then I believe that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. RAM (talk) 19:33, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi there, RAMChYLD. I understand your frustration, I really do. Having worked on Sega articles off and on for the better part of a decade, accuracy has been a challenge to achieve in this area. However, it's important to note that Wikipedia is all about verifiability and reporting the sources, not stating what is the "truth". WP:V is the relevant policy, and although people have done studies on it, that is WP:OR unless it has been published by a reputable, reliable source with a reputation for fact-checking. The truth is we're not here to try and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS but to report the sources, and we have to be careful on what is and isn't a reliable source. We're still seeing things change every day with these sources in this field; a couple of users and I just recently discussed how much about the SG-1000 has come out in reliable sources even in just the past five years. I recommend patience; the truth will come out in a usable form eventually, but it has to come out somewhere reliable first before it can come out here. Red Phoenix talk 23:33, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

It pretty much seems few people care about the SG-1000 :( which is sad, it gave birth to Wonder Boy for a start! Anyway I've added a games list fo the Mark I/Mark II, I figured adding it to the page would be more sensible than making a seperate one (like the Mega Drive or Saturn has) because there's so few. I'm pretty sure that the list is complete. I used a Emulation site as reference but obviously for thier sake I cannot post as a source, though if you check various emulation sites, you should be able to find the total amount of games mixed in with the Master System titles. Hope this is alright - Dwitefry, 18:24 6 July 2008

I'd like to see a translation of the Taiwanese name "阿羅士" for the console added... A quick altavista translation gives "Arab League Gentleman", which I'm guessing is not the correct term :P --71.124.173.134 22:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

The paragraphs after a few of the sections on the list of SG-1000/SC-3000 series games need revision. Could anyone with knowledge of the SG-1000 help to clarify these?--Classicrockfan42 (talk) 06:12, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

"and in other countries, such as France": do you have a source and more information about the release in France? I can't find any on Internet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.220.166.253 (talk) 12:14, 22 August 2011 (UTC) 
Only SC-3000 was released in Australia and Europe (including France). The original SG-1000 was only released in Japan and New Zealand, whilst the SG-1000 II was only released in Japan and Taiwan. 124.120.245.117 (talk) 08:09, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:SG-1000/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Taylor Trescott (talk · contribs) 14:10, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I will be reviewing this article. Taylor Trescott - my talk + my edits 14:10, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to it whenever you're ready.  I tend to think it's pretty interesting and it was a tough one to find information for.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 13:22, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
@Taylor Trescott: Hey, not to get antsy here, but it has been two weeks.  Are we going to start soon?  Red Phoenix let's talk... 04:12, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Whoops. Sorry, you were right to be antsy. Sometimes I get forgetful.

Infobox: Why is "Cassette tape" capitalized?
Shouldn't be.  Fixed.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
"and other countries" How many other countries? If it's just like 2 then I don't think it would be overkill to include them.
Unfortunately, the sources aren't really clear on how many other countries the system actually arrived in.  It is known it didn't make it to North America or the United Kingdom, but it did to Japan, Australia, and a couple of countries in Europe.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Gulf & Western redirects to Gulf and Western, so this article should use "and"
Fixed.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
"as the SC-3000,[5][6] also known as the Sega Computer 3000,[7] as well as the upgraded SC-3000H." How come "SC-3000" is not bold?
It is bold in the lead already.  My understanding is that you bold when that term redirects to the article.  Actually, SC-3000H may not need bolding, so I'll remove it.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
"Following the buyout in 1984" Since you have previously given the year of the buyout, it seems repetitive to state it again.
Fixed.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
"defines the SG-1000 as an 'abject failure', but calls the SG-1000 and the SG-1000 Mark II" Seems like a repetitive usage of "SG-1000"
reworded.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:55, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I will put it on hold. Well done. Taylor Trescott - my talk + my edits 21:32, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

@Taylor Trescott: That should be it.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 21:57, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
"Retrospective feedback highlights that the console is not well remembered due to its poor performance, but served a role in development of the Master System" - how is it possible that an article with this line can pass a GA review? Are you just going through a checklist? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 14:10, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

To be truthful I must not have noticed it. Taylor Trescott - my talk + my edits 16:37, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Might I suggest that instead of starting a nitpick about a minor issue from seven months ago that we just be bold and fix it?  I have done so.  Red Phoenix let's talk... 20:07, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

There was (IIRC) reasonable coverage of the John Sands SC-3000 in Gareth Powell's G.E.M. (Games, Entertainment, and Music) magazine from Australia, and a fair number of commercial indie games were released on tape (eg Roderick's Quest) before the Amiga and AtariST attained primacy. Of course finding copies of that or other magazines from the same era online is unlikely... ~~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~~ 08:29, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Although I agree with @Bololabich that the Sega Mark III is the successor to the SG-1000, I think we should stick to "Master System" instead of the Japanese name "Sega Mark III" (in the infobox's successor field for this SG-1000 article). This is because that "Master System" was the name given to a console in English-language markets, starting with the United States. Same goes with the Nintendo Entertainment System (Famicom), the TurboGrafx-16 (PC Engine) and the Sega Genesis (Mega Drive), which they have different names in different markets. It's also worth noting that the Mark III was re-released as "Master System" in Japan in 1987. Just FYI. – // Hounder4 // 00:34, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
@Hounder4 Though SG-1000 was an JP only release anyway and in the future SB may create an separate article for mark 3 like on different lang. wikis though I think not to make any misunderstandings etc we can put there just Mark III/Master System, you should have in mind poeople from around the forld not only the USA and BTW Mega Drive was mor commonly used name than Genesis ;) MD was used in EU, Australia, NZ, Brazil, Asia... everywhere except the USA and CA :) te same goes with the PC Engine which was called just a PC engine here in Europe, where I come from
// bololabich // 11:23, 15 September 2016 (CEST)

"Master System" is both the name of the article, and the WP:COMMONNAME, so we should just keep with that. The name differences can be explained with a brief sentence in the prose, (if it isn't already.) Not particularly fond of "Mark III/Master System" either, partially because some may mistake it it for one long name, and partially because it puts the less common name first. Also, there have been endless arguments about "Sega Genesis vs. Sega Mega Drive", and the community is without much patience for rehashing arguments about it, so I wouldn't drag that into things either... Sergecross73 msg me 13:25, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
I couldn't make any sense of Bololabich's post due to the absence of punctuation, but I agree that we should use "Master System" as the name except when referring specifically to the Mark III model. This makes it much less confusing for the reader.--Martin IIIa (talk) 00:45, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Sega-SG-1000-Console-Set.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 15, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-07-15. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 03:02, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Were is the game library?DoctorHver (talk) 21:19, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

It's not necessary for the whole library to be in the article in a list. It is linked in the last reference in Japanese, I believe. Red Phoenix talk 02:37, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

The SG-1000 and the SG-1000 II actually sold around 2,000,000 units during its lifetime (1983 - 1985).--DrSanic (talk) 11:36, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Source?  That seems pretty unlikely since it sold 160,000 in its first year and the Famicom picked up the pace after that.  Red Phoenix talk 14:11, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
I've found two sources:
1. a graph from document Network Externality and Necessary Software Statistics, from which we can roughly read the data for "Sega8bit" and get the value of around 2 million units
2. book Co-opetition by Adam Brandenburger and Barry Nalebuff on page 238 states "But SG-1000 never really took off, selling fewer than 2 million units in Japan and the United States"
--- Jorengarenar (talk) 07:13, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Master System was also 8-bit, and furthermore SG-1000 was never sold in the United States, which makes the second source questionable.  Given the crossover in Japan with the Mark III, I doubt the validity of those numbers. Red Phoenix talk 12:07, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

The article lists two different chips for the SG 1000 and the SG 1000 II, 

   SG-1000: Texas Instruments TMS9928A
   SG-1000 II: Yamaha YM2217 VDP

Segaretrogarde says the internal chips were the same. Could someone clarify?Halbared (talk) 09:39, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I’ll see if I can look into it in the next couple of days. Red Phoenix talk 11:29, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Okay, so this was added in by an IP editor not that long ago.  I can't verify any of it, other than the 9928A (which was also why the Master System was developed - Sega wanted to upgrade the graphics chip).  So, I simply removed it.  Red Phoenix talk 17:27, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

What the top says I feel like we need to mention the Othello Multivision hell even the games list mentions what it is but if people want to know the hardware we need to add it? Any thoughts??? NakhlaMan (talk) 02:45, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes it should be in here, but I am not sure why you are calling it a “clone,” which is typically defined as another company copying a hardware to make its own version. Sega created the hardware for the Othello Multivision, while Tsukuda Original designed the case and manufactured it as an OEM partner. Indrian (talk) 03:47, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Sorry it's because many call it a licensed "clone" because it plays the same games as the original SG-1000 I believe and also I am having hard time trying to count the 8 Othello games to the main total of games released for that system because they are not on Sega Japans website right here: ソフトウェア一覧 | SG-1000Ⅱ ｜セガ SEGA NakhlaMan (talk) 07:14, 26 August 2023 (UTC)