# Talk:Presbyterian Ladies' College, Sydney

i think that the photos of the plc sydney and armidale students should be removed as they are under the age of 18 and it could be a danger to their safety. i also think that adding the number of staff at the school would be an interesting feature. -a plc student —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.45.121.176 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC). 
I agree with this, i know one of the girls in that photo and they weren't even aware that they were on the website. -plc student —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 143.238.104.246 (talk • contribs) 18:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC).
I have removed the image Image:ArmidaleSydney.jpg from the PLC Sydney and PLC Armidale articles. It wasn't displaying very well at that size anyway. Blarneytherinosaur 01:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
'I agree with this, i know one of the girls in that photo and they weren't even aware that they were on the website.' woahh you know them?? haha they're in my year :P —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.45.121.176 (talk • contribs) 07:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC).
Bear in mind that all students at PLC Sydney are presented with a release form that provides the ability to publish their images. The number of students who do not sign this form is very small (I believe out of the 1200+ students at the school there are only a handful that did not agree to it)  Don't just assume that student images cannot be used.--Chris Betcher (talk) 01:45, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

If it's the type of thing I'm thinking of, the release only really applies to images taken by the school for the school. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 06:12, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I was just curious as to how I could alter the 'PLC Sydney/PLC Armidale Alliance' section so that it complies to Wiki rules? The announcement by Jeof Falls is the only one I have been able to find that clearly outlines the importance and details of this alliance. Is it necessary to alter his statement? I would appreciate some input so as to improve the quality of this article. 203.206.240.186 03:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I should have explained my reasons for tagging that section.
Obviously you can't alter the statement, although you don't need to quote all of it. It is a good idea to write our own analysis of events, based on available sources, rather than quoting a source word for word. Here's why:
Like all good press releases, this quote is not written in the neutral point of view. I don’t think we need to repeat the unsourced advertising-like sections such as:
"one of our country’s most experienced and successful Principals"
"so that these fine schools can further develop their existing high level of academic and co-curricular achievements"
If this quote represents a notable development in the history of the two schools, the most pertinent part of the newsletter article could be included. Some description of the background and effect of the decision may also be included, where necessary citing Mr Falls, but not quoting verbatum. Blarneytherinosaur talk 03:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I have attempted to remove the advertising like content from this section. Would appreciate if someone could check it and decide whether or not it now complies. Thanks. Loopla 07:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the hard work head on, Loopa. A nice bit of editing without compromising the integrity of the quote. Fantastic work. Blarneytherinosaur talk 09:44, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The previous assessment was:
This article needs a major trimming and reorg. Six of the ten inline references are duplicates and the reference section should be made inline. Much of the information is only of local interest. Adam McCormick 04:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I am now re-assessing this article as B / High per a request. This is a strong article which should now be considered close, if not already at GA class - a peer review will be required to take the article to this higher rating. This article is well referenced with no obvious weaknesses. I have changed the importance to high due to the extensive history of the school and large amount of alumni. Camaron1 | Chris 16:31, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the infobox used in this article is far superior to the Australian Private School one (Template:Infobox Aust school private) that is apparently supposed to be used. In my opinion, the Austschoolprivate one is not overly suitable to schools like P.L.C (and the AHIGS and GSV schools), and it doesn't look as nice either. Must all of the large number of Aust private school articles using the infobox in this article be changed to the inferior one when the existing one works just nicely?? It all seems a bit rediculous to me. Thoughts, opinions?? Loopla 16:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

This should be brought up at the talk page of the Aust School Private template. Twenty Years 16:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS): 
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.: 
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
Overall:
Pass/Fail: 
If you feel this was a mistake, feel free to take the article to a review, congratulations on making this article a success. —JA10 Talk • Contribs 19:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Although there is no absolute rule about the use of periods in abbreviations, the WP MoS says "in general, avoid them". CMOS agrees.
A quick peek at the article shows that many long and common abbreviations follow this recommendation: AHISA, JSHAA, ABSA, AHIGS, IGSSA, ISDA, RAAF, AM, ACER, CBD, YWCA.
However, all of the academic degrees are given with periods: B.A., LL.D., D.Sc., etc.
Two of the most used abbreviations appear in various forms: P.L.C., P.L.C, PLC, N.S.W, N.S.W., NSW
According to the MoS, the only absolute rule is that we be consistent throughout the article. Absent any strong feelings to the contrary, I would recommend we eliminate the periods. I'll let this issue sit here for a few days for feedback, and whatever the consensus is, I'll include this in my copyedit of the article. --AnnaFrance (talk) 15:59, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I see Loopla has taken care of this for me, without the need of any discussion. :) --AnnaFrance (talk) 15:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


### Disambiguation
I noticed that a disambiguation cleanup was reverted, but no correction was made. As part of the page cleanup, we need to remove all wikilinks to disambiguation pages. If the redirect chosen by the DAB person wasn't the correct one, somebody needs to go to the DAB page and choose the more appropriate article. --AnnaFrance (talk) 15:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and guess Preparatory school (UK). --Jh12 (talk) 13:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


### Lead
Thanks for taking on the copyedit AnnaFrance!. User:Loopla is the primary editor of the article, so I believe she can address the disambig problem. Regarding the lead, User:Tony1 at the first FA nomination brought up some good points. I have a temp page at User:Jh12/Draft4 where I'm trying to revise it. --Jh12 (talk) 16:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Great. I'll continue on and let you work on the lead. As the new kid in town, I'm still trying to get situated here. Sometimes a genuine, critical copyedit is wanted, sometimes the article's owner only wants the formatting brought in line with MoS. Since so much was made of redundancies and awkward constructions in the FA review, I'll try a slightly heavier copyedit. If anyone has a problem with any of my edits, please just say so—I'm not emotionally invested. --AnnaFrance (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Two comments that came up in the review were: history section too long, and table of contents too long. Personally, as a reader who has no affiliation with the school and never will have, I find the History section the most interesting part of the article, and I'd hate to cut any of it. It would be nice to cut the table of contents, but so far I'm having trouble seeing a good way to do that either. I'll keep at it though.
Unfortunately for our length problems, I would now like to lengthen the History section. :-) It seems to me that the last paragraph about the anniversary book is very abrupt and extremely brief. Could we add some weight to that last paragraph with more details about the anniversary? Surely there will be more going on than just a commemorative book? --AnnaFrance (talk — blunders) 15:02, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, as far as events I found the following:
Celebrated its 120th with an "Open Day and Fair" on May 10th, 2008 (mentioned by the ashfield city council). If it was similar to the 2007 Open Day and Fair 4.9MB PDF, it was a big fair with demonstrations, performances, auctions, and tours of the school.
120th Anniversary Concert on June 13, 2008 (PLC booking form PDF). Performances by PLC bands, choirs, and orchestras at the school's Audrey Keown Theatre. A local review of the Anniversary Concert on June 18, 2008:[1]
120th Anniversary Ball June 21, 2008 (PLC invitation).
The Matchgirls was selected as PLC's 2008 musical, because the London matchgirls strike of 1888 occurred in the same year as PLC's founding.(PLC news release)
If you wind up using any of the information, go ahead and add it in and I'll convert the sources into proper in-line citations. Thanks, --Jh12 (talk) 07:55, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

In the History section, there is a reference to acres (hectares), and in the Campus section we have hectares (acres). Which measurement system would you like to get prime position? --AnnaFrance (talk — blunders) 15:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Based on an unscientific sampling of government websites [2][3], I'll go ahead and change the prime measurement to hectares. --Jh12 (talk) 06:02, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

In the Curriculum section, Secondary, 3rd paragraph: "HSC English is compulsory and Standard, Advanced, Extension courses and 2-unit English as a Second Language are offered."
What courses are being listed here? HSC English and a 2-unit English as a Second Language: that's 2. What do "Standard", "Advanced", and "Extension" refer to?
--AnnaFrance (talk — blunders) 13:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Near as I can tell, completing a course in English (Advanced), English (Standard), or English as a Second Language (ESL) is required to graduate with a Higher School Certificate or "high school diploma" in New South Wales. Students in English (Advanced) may choose to study, in addition, English (Extension) courses. Extension courses are "designed for students with a desire to pursue a specialized study of English."[4] --Jh12 (talk) 06:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Would somebody check the last paragraph of the Sport section, specifically for the mentions of "eight"? Sometimes it's given as "eight", sometimes as "VIII". Normally I would think they should all be rendered one way or the other, but I know nothing about rowing. --AnnaFrance (talk — blunders) 14:21, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

All the sources listed call it "eight", not "VIII", and it looks like that's how the IOC refers to it in the Olympic games so I'll change it to "eight" --Jh12 (talk) 14:49, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I've finished the first pass through for grammar, usage, etc., and I've just made a list of all items mentioned in the FA review that haven't been addressed yet. Here's a rough draft on the to-do list:

Jh12, you're working on the lead section, so that's already in progress.
One-sentence paragraphs are not good. That brings up the last sentence/paragraph in the History section, about the 120th anniversary. If someone could find anything else to say here it would be appreciated.
Periods should be inside quotation marks? That is simply wrong. According to WP:PUNC, "Punctuation marks are placed inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation is part of the quotation." <-- as the period was just there
I'm going through the History section now, trying to see where material can be cut.
One of the reviewers was absolutely against lists of any kind in articles. There is no particular rule or guideline about that in the WP:MOS, but they warn that some reviewers won't like it. Personally, I feel that lists are the clearest was to present data in many cases, but here the data in question may not be wanted (at least in as much detail), so maybe the lists should be reconsidered. I'll take a look.
Finally, and as an extension to the issue of the lists, many suggestions (all from one reviewer, I believe) were made about cuts and reorganization. Although I like this article as is, I realize it is rather long by WP standards, so I'll go through these suggestions and see what can be done.
If anyone has any strong opinions about any of this, please speak now. --AnnaFrance (talk — blunders) 14:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I can't thank you enough for the great copyedit work. I'm afraid the person most familiar with the school is probably busy, so I'll see if I can do some research on that reference or find something about the 120th anniversary, as well as address some of the stuff above. --Jh12 (talk) 05:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
At Jh's request, I had a look—copy-edited the top only. I think the dots and capital letters should be minimised. I think NSW needs the abbreviation (without announcement) after the first spelling-out. I think it's overlinked. Do you want the date autoformatting removed? There are only a few, and it's increasinly common. I have a script. Say no if you wish! Tony (talk) 00:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for helping with the lead Tony! I still need to see if I can cut out some of the commas in the first sentence, possibly reworking the order of the sentences. I think for now we'll keep the autoformatting. The way Wikipedia does it is rather random though. Best, --Jh12 (talk) 05:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I've been looking through the remaining review suggestions, and it seems to me that most of them are really very good. Right now I'm working on a revised Campus section that eliminates the list of buildings and is fattened with material removed from the History section. I also agree that the Fees section should be removed, and that the material about the motto, crest, and badge should be shortened and added to the History section. Finally, a Student Life section might be nice to encompass the House system material, and the Ex-Students' Union, and perhaps the Uniform material. (If the Uniform material doesn't go there, it would go in History.) As I said, I'm starting on the Campus section. Let me know if I should stop at any point on these chores. --AnnaFrance (talk — blunders) 15:12, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


### New Campus section
I've created the new Campus section, with bits and pieces from the History section, and the list of campus buildings is gone. The changes:

The bits and pieces have been removed from the History section.
The reductions have meant that fewer images fit, so some images have been removed.
The Second World War section was entirely about the campus, so that material has been moved and the WWII section removed.
Anything significant that was removed (list of buildings, images, WWII section) were commented out, not deleted.
Work created: The images should probably get another review, and possibly moved to more attractive locations. Also, when a final decision is made, the commented-out material needs to be used or deleted.
--AnnaFrance (talk — blunders) 13:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

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