# Talk:Walter de Gray

Sources using Gray: Oxford Dictionary of National Biography entry for him, Handbook of British Chronology, Lee Wyatt's "The Making of an Archbishop: The Early Career of Walter de Gray 1205-1215" in Seven Studies in Medieval English History and Other Historical Essays Presented to Harold S. Snellgrove, Nicholas Vincent Peter des Roches, W. L. Warren's King John, Ralph Turner's King John: England's Evil King?, Barlow's Feudal Kingdom of England.
Sources using Grey - the Fasti, Carpenter's Minority of Henry III.
Pretty clear preponderance of sources here. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:09, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Gray: Oxford Dictionary of National Biography entry at https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Grey,_John_de_(d.1214)_(DNB00) actually uses "de Grey" rather than "de Gray". It would be great if someone could find an original document.68.40.122.133 (talk) 15:54, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

That's the 100 year old original Dictionary of National Biography - I'll note. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:20, 20 January 2017 (UTC)
this link which is repeatedly trying to be reinserted into the citation "Haines "Gray, Walter de" Oxford Dictionary of National Biography" is NOT to Haines' article. The link that is trying to be inserted is to William Hunt's article in the Dictionary of National Biography. That's a totally different (and much older) work than the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:50, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Is not a reliable source. See description of the owner. Does not meet our requirements for WP:SPS, or self-published sources. I've removed the source and restored the citation needed tag. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:24, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Ramm - The Tombs of Archbishops Walter de Gray (1216–55) and Godfrey de Ludham (1258–65) in York Minster, and their Contents - Cambridge
Hoey - Transepts - Gesta
Ealdgyth (talk) 18:04, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Walter de Gray/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Tim riley (talk · contribs) 10:50, 21 May 2022 (UTC)


### Initial comments
You won't be getting much input from me – just a few tiny stylistic points and one (probably very silly) question.

Lead
"Lord Chancellor under from 1205 to 1214" – either one word too many or not quite enough.
"present at the signing of Magna Carta in 1215" – this is my question: was Magna Carta signed (or even sealed, for that matter)? I have, or think I have, a memory from a fairly recent visit to the display at the British Library that the charter was agreed but neither signed nor sealed. Perfectly prepared to be told I'm wrong, as I need hardly say.
Early life
"Gray was likely born around 1180" – A small Engvar point: in BrE "Gray was likely born" would normally be "Gray was probably born". Lord knows why we go for the longer, flabbier word, but there it is.
"once more traveled outside of England" – "travelled" in BrE. And we'd usually just travel outside England, rather than outside of it.
Royal service under Henry III
"guardian of England when the King went to France" – I think this is the one place in the article where "King" ought to be "king".
As archbishop
"assert his archiepiscopal authority over Scotland, which not only resisted by the Scots" – word missing.
And that's all I can come up with. I shan't bother putting the review on hold (unless you wish it). Over to you and then on to the ribbon-cutting. – Tim riley talk 10:50, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

I think I got all these - I went with "when Magna Carta was issued"... as for the King/king issue - I'm sure that shortly someone will come along and change it back as part of the endless capitalization wars ... I tend to just let them flow around me mostly ... it's not something I'm going to get up in arms about. Thank you for the review! Ealdgyth (talk) 14:02, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Good. All fine now. Sails through GAN. Tim riley talk 16:05, 21 May 2022 (UTC)