# Talk:Yannis Makriyannis

This article is under review for Good Article status.  Unfortunatly, it does not yet meet the criteria.  However, it is not a million miles away, so I have put it on a 7 day hold rather than failed it outright.  If after 7 days the following changes have not been made, it may fail.
Anyone interested in getting this article to GA status should check out the good article criteria and try to ensure that this conforms.
Well written: The article is at times clunky and badly written.  "Ioannis Triantafyllou, as was his proper name, better known as Ioannis Makrygiannis..." - this is not English syntax, the order of this sentence in Early Life needs to be changed around.  "he probably joined the Filiki Etaireia in 1820. - explain jargon briefly rather than just wikilinking to it.  All that is needed is something like "he probably joined Filiki Etaireia, the anti-Ottoman secret society, in 1820".  "informing local members of the Filiki Etaireia of the state of Roumeli."  - informing them of what?
Factually accurate and verifiable: More references are needed, even if you end up with Memoirs referenced 100 times - that's better than making unsupported assertions.
Broad in its coverage: Passed
Has Neutral Point of View: In the head section: "This work [Memoirs] is an invaluable source of historical, linguistic and cultural knowledge about the period"  This is not neutral.  Don't call it invaluable.  In fact, just delete that passage and go straight to the Nobel laureate calling it great.
Stable: Passed
Pictures: Passed
So, sort those things out.  Those examples are not the only ones, they are just examples.  You need to go through this article paying particular attention to how well it is written, verifiablity and NPOV.  It shouldn't take more than 7 days.  Thanks for all your good work so far, and keep it up! Chrisfow 23:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

None of the changes suggested by review have been made, and the seven day hold has run out. Chrisfow 20:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Well written: Passable.
Factually accurate and verifiable: Passed
Broad in its coverage: Passed
Has Neutral Point of View: Passed
Stable: Passed
Pictures: Passed
A good article, has some spelling mistakes and I think it needs to have a wider range of sources but it is good enough to pass. Kyriakos 03:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I ran it through a spellchecker, there was one mistake in total, which has been promptly fixed. The rest is British usage, which I've tried to use consistently. I agree on the wider range of sources, but I'm thoroughly unable to provide them. Druworos 11:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The article is currently under the name "Ioannis Makrygiannis". It seemed to me that Makriyannis was the more common spelling in English, so I checked using Google.  In order to restrict the search to General Makriyannis (excluding other people of that name), I used the search ["General X" OR (memoirs X)].  This gives I think a fair and representative sample (with a few false positives).

(table updated with Makriyiannis --Macrakis 20:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC))
As you can see, the spelling Makriyannis is almost twice as common as Makrygiannis on the Web at large, and about fifteen times more common on Books and Scholar, which are more reliable. I did a similar check for Yannis/Ioannis/Giannis/John, and there the data are sparser, but the Web prefers Ioannis by a bit, while books and scholar prefer Yannis by quite a lot.  Given that Yannis is also more consistent, it seems that the correct title should be Yannis Makriyannis.  If I hear no objections, I will move it there. --Macrakis 22:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I had given this issue a lot of thought when first creating the article. I had opted for the current spelling since it is a more appropriate transliteration of the Greek name. I do agree, however, that what you propose is more commonly used. I also agree that if we are to move it to Makriyannis, Yannis should also be used, for consistency. I would not, in general, object to the move you propose. I would just like to request that if you do go ahead with it, make sure you fix all the redirects as well, since I have put in quite a few to cover the possible alternate spellings one might have used (pretty much every alternate spelling that came to mind ;) ) Also, you may want to go through the article and change the name to Makriyannis wherever it appears, again, for consistency. Note, however, that if you do do that, I think there should be a reference to the fact that while Makriyannis is used as the more common form, Makrygiannis is a more proper transliteration. Druworos 13:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your considered response.  Certainly Makrygiannis (or Makrygiannēs or even Makryghiannis) is a more accurate transliteration, but WP policy uses the most common English form; we have Crete, not Kriti or Krētē. And we include the actual Greek spelling in the heading, so transliteration is redundant (though of course it should stay in the heading since it is in actual English-language use, unlike say Stauros Niarkhos).
I will of course clean up any double-redirects and the spelling within the article if we go through with the move. --Macrakis 16:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
So long as it stays in the heading, I'm fine with the move. Druworos 12:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I just surveyed another spelling, Makriyiannis (just added to the table above), which is more common than some of the others, but still several times less common than Makriyannis, so I went ahead with the move. Am now cleaning up. --Macrakis 20:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
a. Absolutely, the policy to follow with the article name is WP:ENGLISH WP:COMMONNAME over other criteria.
b. Yes, we also need to provide a transliteration of the modern Greek characters using the standard format(s). [Fixed.]
[edit: Refixed. The romanization of Greek page had a bunch of issues that are mostly resolved now and WP:GREEK has a bunch of issues that will take time to fix, but the upshot is that the BGN/PCGN system I used the first time is now obsolete; the straight transcription system everyone agrees on is better for article names but not detailed enough to be a good idea for our transliterations; and everyone except Google seems to prefer the ISO/ELOT2 macrons to the UN/ELOT1 underscores.  — LlywelynII 04:43, 15 October 2014 (UTC) ]
c. No, we should not be laundry listing every possible unsourced variant of these letters across modern and historic Greek. That's what the {{Persondata}} template at the bottom of the page is for. I've removed every one of the alt spellings. The Greek forms go in the translit; the French forms don't go on the English wiki; and the others are completely unsupported by the article's current sources. Feel free to restore some of the common English variants with sourcing. (If it's still in use, "...also known as..." or "...also romanized as..."; if it's a historic form that is no longer in use, "...formerly romanized as...".) Don't include something like "etc." into the lead section. — LlywelynII 04:08, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
d. The chart was very nicely done, but remember to provide links to your searches next time. — LlywelynII 04:24, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. Although I noticed a couple of minor issues (detailed below), I believe the article still meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article.
For future improvement, it is recommended that the decorative {{cquote}} template not be used in articles. We also recommend use of the templates on WP:CITET when formatting references and citations, and all books used for reference should give an ISBN where obtainable.
Thank you for your hard work. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, EyeSereneTALK 21:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

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Many citations cite book without giving page number, insufficiently verifiable. I also have doubts about the quality of sourcing since it relies heavily on the subject's memoirs and other nineteenth century works. (t · c) buidhe 04:32, 14 October 2021 (UTC)