# Talk:Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

Unlocking original Prince of Persia games: In the NTSC version of this game, you can unlock Prince of Persia 2.  In the PAL version, you can unlock the first Prince of Persia.  I believe the unlocking is achieved by: a) completing the game, b) entering a secret room, or c) entering a code on the controller.  Can anyone verify all of this and include it in the main article?
I have another idea to put into the critisism section. While being attacked by multiple enemies on the ground there is no counter attack to get back up. I spent nearly 10 minutes after an enemy knocked me to the ground and then before i knew it, ten enemies were huddled around me smashing at me literally 1 second after the other. In this situation the only way to get out of it is to say 'bye-bye',let the prince die and restart the level. (really annoying)

Whenever there are any mentions to the Prince of Persia Sands of Time Trilogy, it redirects to this page. Should there be a seperate page for the trilogy as a whole? MadJaxter 13:20, 25 June 2007 (GMT)

Is there a need for it? I don't know if there is much information to fill it... --SoWhy Talk 18:19, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
What there should be is a page that is an overview of the entire Prince of Persia series.  There's more than just the Sands trilogy.  TotalTommyTerror 21:33, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd agree with that too. But, the two different main sets under different subtitles. MadJaxter 19:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

This linked text was removed from the Trivia/Criticisms section because User:TotalTommyTerror felt it was uncyclopedic.  --Interiot 20:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, they were unsourced, so in that respect, I agree. Ideally, critcisms and praise should be more like what Katamari Damacy, Super Mario 64, and The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask have. What is kind of sad now is that due to his edit, the article is horribly slanted to positive reviews only. This needs to be corrected. K1Bond007 03:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I remember a while back, whilst this game was new on the market, advertisments on London busses were taken down after they scared a young child. I don't have any source, although I remember reaidng it in a newspapaer. Zooba 14:40, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Pretty sure you're thinking of Warrior Within. There were some problems with that advertising campaign. K1Bond007 03:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I can't see anything about it in the article - surely it should be added into it? Zooba 17:58, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Are you serious? It scared a young child? Not to be rude, but I don't think it is something to take down the advertisement, just put a different one up.

Who wrote that Sharaman was the one to have looted the Island of Time? Unless the PAL version is different from the NTSC version, the Maharajah was the one who had the artifacts in his vaults. That was why the Vizier defected to the Persian army in the first place; in exchange for everything else in the Maharajah's vaults the Vizier wanted to keep the dagger and the hourglass for himself. Can someone with the PAL version clear this up? --98.234.158.183 (talk) 08:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Just a little point that was bugging me. When the Prince, after reversing time to before the sacking of the Maharajah's palace, gives Farah the Dagger of Time from HIS timeline, surely the 'original' Dagger is still sitting safely inside the Maharajahs treasure horde... Since it has yet to be claimed by the Prince. We can assume the Dahaka ate the second one as part of it's 'cleaning up' of the timeline. Any thoughts? CSkankRabbit 00:46, 18 September 2006 

I personally agree with what you just said, but, it seems slightly inaccurate to say there are two daggers, but I get where you are coming from.
(You forgot to sign your post, so I did it for you.) (This post contains spoilers for those who haven't played WW and T2T (the latter of which I didn't finish yet myself).)
I don't think you can just assume that, not add it to the article either; see Wikipedia:No original research. Since the Dahaka is destroyed, does that mean it never existed, since it can travel through time? What is there to stop it to show up in the future as its younger version? It's better than my first theory, that the Dagger exists sort of "outside of time". The other Dagger in the vault was automatically erased as soon as the Prince appeared again in this part of the timeline. Of course that way Farah shouldn't have known it existed, and it's also incompatible with how the Medallion works in WW. After all, the Medallion exists twice during the period the Prince wears the Mask. Then again, the prince doesn't exist twice either after rewinding time (the entire SOT game) and ends up back in his time. Of course the Dagger and Hourglass could simply work in a different way than the Mask... actually that's pretty obvious, considering which exact powers the respective items has, so not necesarily a plot hole. In T2T the Prince still has the Medallion (for a  very short while), but shouldn't the Vizier have found it on the Island of Time in the new timeline along with the Dagger and Hourglass? Maybe it was just hidden (better). In short, when it comes to time travel there are usually plot holes, especially considering people disagree on how it works, and even if a certain way is assumed there are usually inconsistensies. Retodon8 09:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I personally agree with the "outside of time" theory.  It's really the only way he could retain the dagger after the Grand Rewind.  Frankly, it is a bit of a paradox, but the game is at its climax in that sequence, so the gamer can suspend disbelief.
A new time player could assume there are two daggers when playing the first few levels of SOT and a few of T2T because of the dagger changing its length, but if he beat both games, he would know there is only one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.126.113.88 (talk • contribs) 
The dagger paradox has always bugged me, too, but Retodon8's theory makes sense to me...somewhat. Spartan198 (talk) 08:56, 25 September 2008 (UTC) Spartan198
The way I figure it, even though you can travel through time, there can normally only be one "you." That's why even though the Prince takes a bunch of different time portals in Warrior Within, he doesn't ever run into himself. The only way around that is with the Mask, but that's because the Sand Wraith you isn't "you." And as long as there is already a "you," the Sand Wraith you can't remove the Mask and become "you" again. Even that isn't foolproof, since the Dahaka seems to have manifested in the past solely to target the Sand Wraith Prince. Thus, as far as any non-time-travelers were concerned, when the Prince used the hourglass as a giant sand tank and rewound past when he originally got the dagger it teleported from the Maharajah's vault to the Prince's tent. That's also why the Two Thrones Vizier never found the Medallion; the Prince's Medallion, having come through a time portal, had priority. --98.234.158.183 (talk) 08:07, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
el se quedo con la daga por que el era quien la tenia, en sus manos, al tenerla en sus manos se quedo con ella y por eso no estaria en la boveda

Perhaps as it gets closer or more information is added about the movie, it should be moved to its own page. PureSoldier 03:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Still plenty of time though.
Razoroo 21:34, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Is there any difference about the movie and the game?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.48.50.237 (talk) 15:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC) 

What the heck are those strange fountains? They don't really seem to exist in actual reality. In The Two Thrones you return to this place once. It seems to have a connection to his other personality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.231.225.10 (talk) 06:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC).
I would also like to know this. Is it a reference to something in arab mythology or what? 213.22.137.22 (talk) 18:04, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Not much information is provided. This much is known:
- Upon his first visit, the Prince remarks that he feels he is no longer in Azad (the palace), and it is indeed difficult to work out how or why such a huge chamber would be inside a palace of corridors and rooms. The chamber also appears unreached by the Sands.
- The fountain and its surroundings subsequently appear identical every time, so presumably he is visiting the same place repeatedly, despite the entrances to it being scattered across a variety of locations.
- The Prince is considerably stronger after drinking from it.
- Upon the Prince's return, the entrances to the fountain are always firmly sealed up, leaving no evidence that there was ever a way in. Also, just after entering the Tower of Dawn the Prince encounters an entrance whilst accompanied by Farah. He invites her to follow him in, but she declines. When the Prince reappears and asks Farah how long he was gone for, she is bewildered, with no recollection that he ever departed.

From these points, it can be said of the fountain that:
- It does not conform to the structure and laws of the physical real world.
- It is for the Prince's exclusive benefit.
- Each entrance to it allows only one visit.
- The Prince is the only one with continuous knowledge of its existence.
That's quite a mystery. Has Mechner or anyone else ever commented on the matter?
Kohran (talk) 00:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Someone wants to merge 4 articles into this one but fails to state reasons for it. I suggest a discussion about that here, myself advising against it. This article is about the first game while the proposed articles to be merged into it are valid for all 3 games of the trilogy and are complex enough to exist as seperate articles. --SoWhy Talk 14:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed the templates for now, who ever added them please explain yourself. --SoWhy Talk 16:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Image:Daggeroftime.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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I noticed that when you start this game, the ubisoft intro is changed, unlike most of the games ubisoft makes, it sounds different, and is somewhat shorter.  Should we mention about this in the article?--71.116.37.15 22:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so, this would be trivia imho. --SoWhy Talk 22:53, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that even qualifies as trivia, either. In fact, it seems kind of pointless even bringing it up, since companies change logos all the time. Spartan198 (talk) 08:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC) Spartan198

According to page 9 of this very detailed GameSpot article about the making of the game from after the game's completion, the game does not use the JADE engine, as the team found it couldn't handle the large environments they were creating.  MrStalker, would you care to explain why you reverted it?  One of your references wasn't even from a PoP team member, and, although the other one does say it uses the JADE engine, mine does not.  It would appear that this is a deadlock. Green451 15:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Because every other source I can find on the subject says the game uses the JADE engine. When sources contradict each other, it would be fair to assume that the fact with the most sources are the correct one. --MrStalker talk 16:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Medallion (Prince of Persia), suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy).  You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Medallion (Prince of Persia).  —Disavian (talk/contribs) 16:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a good idea because these articles, by themselves, do not meet the notability criteria and are just lengthy expansions of the plot section of this game, and all this discussion of the plot should be put here. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the merge. However, I wonder how much there is to actually merge, since the plot already seems to be covered in this article. Perhaps a redirect is in order. Pagrashtak 16:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Any objection to redirecting? Pagrashtak 20:18, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The article seems well-written and detailed enough to keep separate. But if everyone else decides to merge it, move its contents to the gaming wiki first. C Teng (talk) 15:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Being well-written and detailed is not enough to warrant an article if the subject is not notable. In fact, detailed in-universe content with no real-world content is not suitable for Wikipedia, per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction). Pagrashtak 16:08, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
But it isn't just in the one game...122.104.160.66 (talk) 01:35, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the IP comment, those articles are about objects which are featured in different games of the triology and thus merging them with this one is not accurate. --SoWhy Talk 10:44, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

There's also a book by Sidney Sheldon by the name "The Sands of Time". Shouldn't that have an article of its own? ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 14:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, it does: The Sands of Time. Where is your question? --SoWhy Talk 20:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Whoops! I don't know how I missed that. Anyway,thanks :) ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 17:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

In the "Video Games" segment of How It's Made, there is a behind-the-scenes look on how Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time came into history.  But the narrator never mentions the game or its creators or characters by name, and the show never mentions them by credits.  Instead, he uses kindergarten technique language to describe how games like this one are made.  (He also uses the same language to describe the history of games, and never mentions the video game crash of 1983.)  Just thought I'd let you know. --Angeldeb82 (talk) 17:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The Gameplay section is riddled with weasel words, is overly verbose, and comes off as an advertisement, most likely because it was written by Ubisoft (looks like an official release to me).  Specific sentences follow:

"Prince of Persia The Sands of Time combines exploration and combat to create a unique synthesis."
Completely NPOV and unsourced.

"using discovered objects to progress"
The only object that the player really discovers and uses to progress is the sword that can break walls, unless you include crates.  I'm going to leave it in because I don't know what to do with it.

"The cultural setting of the game provides many linguistically interesting inscriptions to be found on walls."
Unsourced and has nothing to do with the gameplay.

"The player generally attacks enemies and blocks using a sword, although other factors such as the Dagger of Time and its time-control abilities eventually prove to be critical to victory."
This sentence seems extraneous but I wasn't sure if it is felt that it needs to be mentioned that combat is done with a sword so I rephrased the portion after the comma.

"A pivotal gameplay element is the Prince's Dagger of Time."
Unnecessary sentence which seems to be there to add emphasis.

"and the play environment accurately resets to its previous state"
Seems redundant.

"For example, if the Prince was struck by an enemy attack during the rewound period, the health he lost will be given back to him, or a bridge that was destroyed a few seconds ago will repair itself."
Seems unnecessary but I've left it in as it's an example.

"However, defeated enemies are absorbed by the Dagger, replenishing its stock. The stock can also be replenished by absorbing Sand Clouds."
Removed and replaced.

"Later on, when Farah takes the Prince's sword and dagger, after solving a puzzle he gains an extremely powerful new sword  in a large room, which has the capability to destroy the Sand like the dagger."
Seems unnecessary.
I have edited the section to try to clean it up.  Almost every power and action is described in the gameplay section, it merely doesn't go into detail about the two powers that freeze enemies.  206.125.94.244 (talk) 07:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: AdrianGamer (talk · contribs) 03:03, 6 July 2015 (UTC)


### Comments
It was been re-released on PlayStation 3 alongside its two sequels. - you don't need "been" there
Mechner served as creative consultant, designer, and scenario writer. - The original Prince of Persia, or The Sands of Time?
he needed to work hard to create an appealing yet simple narrative that worked with the pace of gameplay - Can be rephrased so that it can sound more neutral
The game used Ubisoft's Jade engine, originally designed for Beyond Good & Evil, another game developed by the company. - change "developed" to "published"


#### Gameplay
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. - Not a complete sentence
The camera also goes out to different positions triggered by entering environments or performing actions - "goes out" is not the best word to use here. "Environments" does not sound specific enough
His health and power metre is represented in the top left-hand corner of the screen. - should be "are" instead of "is".
finding hidden magic fountains increases the Prince's health - You can increase health by only "finding" it? Do you need to do more to regain health?
During several points in the game, the Prince is assisted by his companion Farah, who will fire a bow at enemies - "fires" - present tense
Farah, who will fire a bow at enemies - "arrows" instead of "bow".
though she can also hit the Prince if he strays into her line of fire. - she can't hit the prince, her arrows can.
 if she is killed, the game will end. - "ends". It is something always happening
The Prince's main contextual move is a wall run - Personal opinion, not compulsory, but I would prefer "wall-running" instead of "a wall run"
walking along beams swinging on and jumping from poles, jumping onto and between pillars, - You need a comma after "beams"
Enemies can only be killed by stabbing them with the Dagger of Time, which gathers up the Sand inside them - Should be "sands" - consistency with the lead
 In combat, the Prince can also slow time immediately around him, - should be "slow down time"
while they are unable to move. - Personal opinion, not compulsory, but I prefer "respond" instead of "move"
Is the time-freezing part related to the Dagger as well?
These more powerful abilities are powered by Power Tanks. - What abilities it is referring to
The mobile version is a side-scrolling runner - should specify that it is an endless runner.
featuring simple puzzles and traps that must be avoided. - The puzzles are avoided as well?


#### Development
The initial concept work for The Sands of Time began development in the spring of 2001 - Change it to "The development of the initial concept work for The Sands of Time began in the second quarter of 2001. Also per WP:SEASON, season should not be used
The game was developed by Ubisoft Montreal, who were also a year into developing Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell. - Ubisoft Montreal is a company, so it should be "was" instead of "were"
Helper characters also count as a "main characters"?
Their intent was the capture the original feeling of platforming an adventure in a 3D environment. - Change it to "They intend to capture ..." - sounds simpler and easier to read
The Rewind function was suggested by Désilets - Who is Désilets? The article never mention his job post
Each time a new action was created for the Prince - should use "ability" instead of "action"
They also needed to make adjustments to the enemy and partner AI - wikilink AI to artificial intelligence, or to use "artificial intelligence" to replace "AI"
This issue was compounded by the need to produce a demo for the 2003 Electronic Entertainment Expo - wikilink Electronic Entertainment Expo 2003
Despite these problems, other parts of production including play-testing, management of creative tools, and the integrated testing system. - Not a complete sentence
 the team made improvements to the engine by adding additional animations between walking and running - Change it to "by adding additional walking and running animations". It sounds simpler
They also made custom animations for the character - A full stop is needed.
gave the lightning effects a more "magical" feel - more is not necessary. Nothing is being compared to
The game used an updated version of the company's Jade Engine - Jade engine. The engine's name is Jade only
Despite this, many of the features planned for her needed to be cut - Any examples? Any explanation why it is cut?
while not being not pure Persian music - Double negative, and it hinders reading
Tracks from the game were included in an album featuring from both The Sands of Time and its two sequels - It had plenty of sequels, so which one?
 the album was released by Ubisoft Entertainment  - Ubisoft only, you do not need to wikilink it.
with the rest being done in Montreal. - Should specify that it was done by the developer, so it should be "Ubisoft Montreal"
To make the enemies in the game stand out, mixing an organic and evil feeling with whispering sounds, rather than using sound effects similar to zombies. - Does not sound like a complete sentence
whose performance proved popular - Should be written in passive voice, "was proven popular"
The track listing is not notable enough to be included per Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 106#Soundtrack listings


#### Release
The sales part is something related to the reception of the game
The game was published in the region by Sony Computer Entertainment Japan, who were impressed with both the quality and the praise it earned in the west - impressed "by" instead of "with"
the PS2 version had sold 218,000, the Xbox version 128,000, and the GameCube version 85,000. - You should add "copies" by the end of that sentence
As of 2006, the game has apparently sold 700,000 units, - "apparently" is not needed


#### Reception
Add "Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time received critical acclaim upon launch" before the first sentence
Edge is not in the review template
Whether you're a diehard Prince of Persia fan or somebody with a mild interest in action-adventures, The Sands of Time is a must own -- a soon-to-be-classic worthy of a permanent place in your collection - italicized Prince of Persia and The Sands of Time.
Official Nintendo Magazine ranked it the 86th best game available on Nintendo platforms - When?


#### References/Images
One of the external links is dead
No problem with the images


#### Overall
73.4% copyright violation, but it is not much of a problem since the only similarity between the sources and the article is the game's name
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors: 

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and y: 

Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section: 

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary: 

C. No original research: 

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects: 

B. Focused: 

Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias: 

Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc: 

Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content: 

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions: 

Overall:
Pass or Fail: 

A great article. Really impressive job in expanding this article. It is very comprehensive, and most importantly, very interesting and engaging to read. Basically everything I mention above is just some minor issues. So, besides some incomplete sentences, the article is good to go. Feel free to raise any question and forgive me if I had made some mistakes. I am not really good at proofreading so if I introduce any grammatical errors in the review, I hope you do not mind that.  AdrianGamer (talk) 06:57, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

@AdrianGamer:, I have addressed all the issues you raised above, and looking at the Copyvio Detector, I've also addressed a couple of the more glaring issues. Also addressed spelling errors and unintentional issues with the article's neutrality that you did not pick up. On a side note about your question on time powers, yes all time powers are associated with the dagger: without the dagger, the prince does not have access to them, but this seemed a little too detailed for a gameplay section and it only happens during a few small sections, so I left it out. --ProtoDrake (talk) 08:00, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
With all issues fixed, the article is good to go. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time promoted to . Nice job. AdrianGamer (talk) 08:07, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

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