# Talk:The Two Towers

What source do we have for the indvidual titles of book 3 and 4? They are not present in any edition that I have(Harper Collins paperback and Gebers swedish paperback).

Letters has 'The Treason of Isengard' and 'The Ring goes East' (#136) and these were used on the HMCO 'Millenium edition'. The Marquette manuscript (of LotR) has instead 'The Treason of Isengard' and 'The Journey of the Ringbearers'. I haven't seen the 'Journey to Mordor' title before. --CBD 01:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

How about a PUBLICATION DATE?!  Yes, that would be nice for a work of fiction.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.55.157.250 (talk) 13:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC) 

Wikiproject Novels has this at B-class, while the others are start-class. Shouldn't they all be one? --Glimmer721 talk 00:57, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily, each project rates the article separately though most of the time they are consistent. Derild4921☼ 01:04, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Add to that the fact that some project may re-assess articles while others tend to only doing assessment in an early state of the article and forget about it later. De728631 (talk) 14:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Much like in The Fellowship of the Ring article, the presence of chapter summaries is unnecessary and irrelevant. I am deleting this section, and if anybody has any concerns about this matter, please discuss it here before reverting my edit. This matter has also been discussed on The Fellowship of the Ring talk page, so refer to that if you will. Steed Asprey - 171 (talk) 17:20, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect T2t. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Hog Farm (talk) 19:22, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

The AfD suggesting merge/delete and redirect has closed, and another discussion about merging all three LotR volumes' articles into The Lord of the Rings has now opened at Talk:The Lord of the Rings#Proposed merge of The Fellowship of the Ring etc into The Lord of the Rings, as of February 4.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Please see my proposal at Fellowship of the Ring.--Jack Upland (talk) 19:27, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
On reflection, since we are keeping these articles, which are on books, we must have plot summaries for them (otherwise, the articles are stuck at Start class as they're obviously incomplete). Since these are necessarily shared with the combined 3-volume book, I've made the 3 summaries into templates and included them where needed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:57, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

The section on the title The Two Towers presents, um, unambiguous proof not only that the volume's title is ambiguous, but that Tolkien intended it to be so. This is reliably cited in Tolkien's letters, so the matter is not in doubt. I have repeated the citations in the image caption so that editors can see at a glance that the claims are fully cited. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:27, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

"The second part is called The Two Towers, since the events recounted in it are dominated by Orthanc, the citadel of Saruman, and the fortress of Minas Morgul that guards the secret entrance to Mordor" -JRR Tolkien, end note to The Fellowship of the Ring
Yes, in private letters Tolkien mentioned the possibility of leaving the title ambiguous, or of using various different pairs of towers, but he published that they were Orthanc and Minas Morgul... as can be seen by anyone who opens a copy of The Fellowship of the Ring and reads the note at the bottom of the last page. There is no ambiguity here. --CBD 13:04, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
OK, let's stay with the old text, which makes the key points. The illustrations are in fact neutral with respect to the text, as they can illustrate either version equally well. We should certainly have Tolkien's own cover illustration which is described in the old text that has been restored in the article; the map too can serve to help readers visualize that text. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:03, 23 January 2024 (UTC)