# Talk:Rosie Napravnik

Parking potential sources for article improvement here.  Montanabw(talk) 01:37, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/sports/23racing.html?_r=0  Rosie rides a full brother to Barbaro, Nicanor, to victory, 2009.
http://www.paulickreport.com/features/pop-quiz-brought-to-you-by-ky-bred-quality/pop-quiz-brought-to-you-by-ky-bred-quality-rosie-napravnik/ unless it's relevant what's on her iPod.
Yhttp://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=J&eID=116189
Y http://www.kentucky.com/2013/10/10/2869039/meet-star-jockey-rosie-napravnik.html  Good set of basic bio stats
There's also a YSports Illustrated article and a short piece in The Washingtonian (2006-10-01, p.82). Nikkimaria (talk) 06:30, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
Sweet!  Got a link for the Washingtonian??    Montanabw(talk) 03:29, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
YHere, now in the article. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:59, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
And good background expansion too.  I knew her dad was a farrier; didn't get why she moved in with Robinson, but now I do. Montanabw(talk) 21:27, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
More:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/aug/09/rosie-napravnik-shergar-cup?CMP=twt_gu Shergar Cup pre-race interview
http://offtrackthoroughbreds.com/2013/09/09/rosie-napravnik-speaks-of-friends-not-forgotten/ Charity work
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20131026/SPORTS08/310260097/1037/rsslink?nclick_check=1 Another one on Keenelend title 2013
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horse-racing/preakness/bs-sp-rosie-napravnik-0518--20130517,0,2511826.story preakness coverage 2013
Yhttp://www.chronofhorse.com/article/racing-runs-napravnik-family Solid RS for equine background on whole family
http://www.nj.com/horse-racing/index.ssf/2013/05/preakness_2013_rosie_napravnik_earned_her_stripes_as_a_young_jockey_at_pimlico.html background article
http://www.nj.com/horse-racing/index.ssf/2011/05/kentucky_derby_hopeful_rosie_napravnik_a_new_jersey_native_trying_to_become_first_female_jockey_to_w.html 2011 article
http://marylandmillion.com/cms/index.php/about/joe-kelly-unsung-hero-award/136-inaugural-joe-kelly-unsung-hero-award Article on Holly Robinson and her influence

Ticking sources now added to this article. Montanabw(talk) 07:03, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Striking through sources that are probably not worth adding (repetitive or trivia).  Montanabw(talk) 07:35, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Another good article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/othersports/preakness-stakes-aboard-mylute-rosie-napravnik-has-the-drive-to-win/2013/05/15/5cdcf358-bd92-11e2-9b09-1638acc3942e_story.html includes quote by Stevens.  Montanabw(talk) 23:43, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-05-17/sports/bs-sp-preakness-rosie-0518-20120517_1_rosie-napravnik-jockeys-exercise-rider  Not sue if same as Baltimore Sun article above, but

Do we have a source for this (below) or is this a summary of her accomplishments in the article. I did skim the article and didn't see  a source. I could have missed it. If a summary, seems  it might  be OR?  Sorry ahead of time  for my ignorance.....Very interesting and interested but not very knowledgable  on this topic.:O|(Littleolive oil (talk) 17:32, 8 January 2014 (UTC))
"..and has been the top woman jockey in the United States."

It's a summary, but I think we can restate is somewhere -- in the news articles we've used as sources there is no doubt such a statement, but also it's an analysis from the Equibase.com sources - I linked the list for each year as a source in the stats chart toward the bottom of the article ... the list of jockeys doesn't identify gender, but you can tell from the names alone that she's clearly the top-ranked woman.  [1] (Emma-Jayne Wilson is next, down about 41st) I don't know quite where the WP:SYNTH line would hit on this.  Montanabw(talk) 00:05, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
You know, I think it fine. Its an obvious statement based on the data. (Littleolive oil (talk) 18:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC))
Thanks, yeah, the sources used for the chart pretty much verify it, that said, I am tweaking the data and checking how the other major women riders did, there are two very good Canadian riders giving her a run for the money, so to speak.  Montanabw(talk) 20:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Ok sounds good. I've started to do some more copy editing. As always not attached and revert if not liked.(Littleolive oil (talk) 05:29, 11 January 2014 (UTC))
Have at it, your stuff looks good so far, I may have edit conflicted with you initially, but I'm done for now.  Montanabw(talk) 06:51, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I think we can put this up for GAN now.  It's not FA yet, but I think it's close enough to the GA criteria, and the GA reviewer may have some additional comments for improvement that are helpful.  Anyone object?  (We can continue to improve it while it's pending, of course - and I usually do...)  Montanabw(talk) 00:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm fine with it. Sorry I faded on this. I got distracted and then also family stuff yesterday. (Littleolive oil (talk) 21:24, 13 January 2014 (UTC))
No sweat, just watchlist the GAN when it goes up (don't post in it until we have a reviewer, that will make others think it's being reviewed) and go on troll patrol. Montanabw(talk) 00:32, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Rosie Napravnik/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 17:33, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Comments

As wins in the info box is so fluid (it looks like she's won another ten races since you last checked that ref), it may be useful to give an {{as of}} date for that statistic.
FIXED --MTBW
In the info box there are some horses unlinked and some with red links.  Some of the red linked horses aren't linked in the article.  All a bit inconsistent, is there a method behind the various linking techniques?
Yeah, it's the ones we ought to be making articles for but haven't yet.  Not a moral issue either way, but when we know a horse will pop up in a bunch of articles once an article is created, it's handy not to have to go do a search at the time.  --MTBW
I'm just looking for consistent linking, which I think you've now done.  The Rambling Man (talk) 11:25, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Not convinced there's a need to link pony (we don't link horse)...
OK, but if someone else wants it linked later, I'm making you fix it!  LOL!  --MTBW
Certainly no need to link documentary.
OK, per above ;-)  --MTBW
"At age 13" perhaps this is a US Eng thing, but I'd say "At the age of 13" or "Aged 13..." but not "At age 13".
I like the longer form, tweaked the earlier tweak. --MTBW
"She took a year off from working with horses at 15" that "at 15" is in a rather odd place in the sentence.
Looks like Nikkimaria got that one --MTBW
I would expand GED, I have no clue what this is.
GED is from my experience far more commonly used than the expanded version, particularly given how much people actually disagree about what the expanded version is. I've added a parenthetical explanation, does that help? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that's better.  GED is certainly not common in Brit Eng.  The Rambling Man (talk) 20:13, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
I agree, but I personally just loathe parenthetical explanations in article space (though I use them exhaustively on talk pages) so rephrased to avoid it.  Open to further tweaking there. --MTBW
"riding Ringofdiamonds for Small" could be confusing, like the horse is called "Ringofdiamonds for Small"...
Tweaked  it.  FIXED --MTBW
"again the most successful rider in Maryland" when was she previously the most successful rider in Maryland?  And is that all riders or just female riders?
All riders in Maryland, she won best rider at all the meets in 2006 as well, but it's easy enough to just toss the "again."  The stats would have to be crunched, and not really needed.--MTBW
"to that date,[23] She also had a close second place finish in the 2011 Kentucky Oaks[24] In " some punctuation issues here.
Tweaked.  Better?  Feel free to hack at it if you can improve it further. --MTBW
"In July of that..." mega sentence, would break it up a little.
Fixed.  Better?  --MTBW
" record for a female jockey previously held by Julie Krone.[1] Sports analysts viewed her as the most successful woman jockey since Krone" given the former, the latter isn't really surprising.  I would say, with no expertise at all, that surpassing Krone's record it made her the most successful since Krone...
I'm open to a rephrase or consolidation, I tweaked it a wee bit but there's a nuance there -- I fully anticipate someone to scream WP:SYNTH at me if I say she's the most successful jockey since Krone because she broke the win and earning record.  (Too effeing many trolls on WP, I'm twitchy).  That second source does the synthesis for me and it's that source I want to keep (the point is that you ain't "great" until the pundits say you are great, regardless of which records you break.) Ideas?  --MTBW
It's no biggie for me, it just seemed like (as Basil Fawlty would say) "stating the bleeding obvious".  But that's just my POV, and there's nothing wrong with what you've written.  Perhaps I overanalysed it.  The Rambling Man (talk) 11:25, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Several refs don't have an accessdate, some do, is that deliberate?
Suspect it's a function of having different people adding refs. I prefer not to include accessdates when there is a publication date;. MBW, do you care either way? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:07, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
That is the reason, I don't care deeply, I usuallyl just do what the MOS gods dictate and encourage consistency.  That said, some news links die or get archived and accessdate allows WayBack a better chance of finding the "right" version. TRM, do you want to just break the tie and tell us what you'd prefer to see.  It's a GAN, so not a moral issue like it could be at FAC. --MTBW
New York Times should be The New York Times.
I think Nikkimaria got that one.  --MTBW
Again, good work, but a few tweaks needed before I promote.  The Rambling Man (talk) 18:58, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Addressed all, some questions.  Let me know if I fixed everything I thought I fixed.  Montanabw(talk) 23:12, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Anyone watchlisting this page object if I toss the "Listed stakes wins" from the infobox, just leaving the graded stakes wins?  Don't want the thing bloated beyond all reason...Montanabw(talk) 06:37, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

look much neater now. Tigerboy1966  07:15, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
True.  It does.  And the collapsible thing.  The big jocks have so many winnings it gets messy.  But must make their hearts sing. Stellabystarlight (talk) 19:43, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

LOL!  My thought is to toss just the listed stakes material within the collapsed infoboxes, as basically WE are the ones (well, Stella, mostly) who have to keep it all current - Graded stakes are enough work for these major jockeys!  I was eyeing Kayla Stra as my next project, and OMG, what can happen to an article that is not updated!  YIKES!  =:-O.  Montanabw(talk) 04:22, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Baffert about Napravnik:  http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/16/us-horse-racing-preakness-napravnik-idUSKBN0DW1RJ20140516   Montanabw(talk) 07:53, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Edits reversed by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Montanabw. I added the information on being a female jockey; I added the reason why her trainers would say that being a woman has an advantage in the sport. I believe it should be included because it talks about the downfalls of being a female in the sport (the things her competitors say), but it does not talk about the positives of being a female jockey.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mariahpajarito (talk • contribs) 21:59, 11 December 2014 (UTC) 

See below. I think you didn't read the whole article, where her accomplishments and style are discussed extensively throughout, (with a pullquote from Mike Smith( but you raise a good point that perhaps more advantages of female riders could be added.  I want this article to be about Napravnik, though, not an essay of women jockeys (I hope to see more and better material on women jockeys, by the way, so I'm supportive of your thoughts in general).  We don't need the comments from the whining guy in New Orleans, that's undue weight.  We also have this article at "Good article" status (WP:GA, so we have to be careful with things like how articles are formatted and such.  The problem with the proquest source is that it is inaccessible without an academic login, so no one can tell what's in it. The Drape article is already in there, I don't know that we need to use a lot more info in it.  But, I welcome further discussion. Montanabw(talk) 23:52, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Some new sources are being added, but I'm going to park them here for now until we have a discussion of how best to integrate them into the article:

{{cite web|last1=Drape|first1=Joe|title=A Talented Jockey Is No Longer a Secret|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/07/sports/07jockey.html?_r=1&|website=New York Times |publisher=New York Times Company|date=May 7, 2011|accessdate=11 December 2014}} --ALREADY USED IN ARTICLE
 <ref>http://search.proquest.com/docview/1346170131?accountid=9840</ref> --LOGIN REQUIRED

(Above Drape source may be used to cite that Sharp and Rosie Napravnik met in Delaware. Proquest source has good material on her riding style but also the whining NOLA jockey quote)

Discussion? Montanabw(talk) 23:44, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

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If we spin off Joe Sharp into his own article, or even if we don't, some articles on him. Montanabw(talk) 00:36, 24 April 2017 (UTC):

http://www.nola.com/horseracing/index.ssf/2017/04/girvin_wins_louisiana_derby.html (Article states that Brad Grady sent him his first horse, but other articles say the Ramseys sent him 10 -- and the article linked below says that he started his stable with 16 horses...)
http://www.nola.com/horseracing/index.ssf/2015/03/joe_sharp.html
http://www.joesharpracing.com/the-trainer
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=CD&raceDate=09/14/2014&cy=USA&rn=3 First graded stakes winner, Sandbar, was claimed by Sharp and the Ramseys in a race on 9/14/14.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/chartEmb.cfm?track=KD&raceDate=09/10/2014&cy=USA&rn=2 First winner was also his first starter, Holiday Drama, a horse he personally owned, ridden by Rosie on 9/10/14 --won another race a few weeks later, then was claimed from them after a third race that October.
Sharp's top 20 horse comparison... Grady: Girvin, Cool Arrow, Aztec Brave, Shore Runner, C d'Cat, Abtaal, Mexican Miss. Compare top 20 with horses Ramseys have with Sharp in his top 20: One King's Man, Kitten's Cat, Sapphire Kitten, Sandbar.
Do we think Sharp is ready for prime times with a G1 win, or will he draw the WP:NOTINHERITED crowd?  Maybe if he wins a Breeders' Cup race? Thoughts?  (I see that Linda Rice got an article on the basis of a 30 year career, an eclipse and some trainer titles.) Montanabw(talk) 00:17, 4 August 2017 (UTC)