# Talk:Septimius Severus

emperor Antoninus Pius r. 138–161. His mother's ancesto 2600:6C51:7FF0:350:7049:99D6:16E5:FBA8 (talk) 17:06, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

reigned? 2600:6C51:7FF0:350:7049:99D6:16E5:FBA8 (talk) 17:08, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
Yes, it is the Wikipedia abbreviation for reign. If you open up the article's edit page, you will see this "reign|138|161" Oatley2112 (talk) 21:55, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

From the text: "Due to Severus being born in North Africa, recent years have occasionally seen him mischaracterised as racially African". 
There is no African race! It might be more accurate to state persons of the Niger-Congo and Bantu races have sought to infer Severus was black (i.e. visually like them). These races at the time were ensconced in West Africa south of the Sahara and were not in the general purview of the Romans. 2001:8003:70F5:2400:9107:C71E:CFB9:9AAE (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Technically, not only is there no "African race", but also there are no races at all – at least in biology; but racial classifications are used legally and to some extent in sociology and history. The text is simply trying to say that Septimius' ancestors (as far as we know them) came from Europe and Western Asia, and he had no deep ancestry anywhere in Africa, even in the north.
And of course, in antiquity, the modern notion of "race" was unknown anyway. At most, Septimius may have considered himself something like "of Phoenician stock" in addition to Roman, but large continent-based ethnic labels were alien to the ancients.
One complication that has never been addressed so far on this talk page is that there is not only black, white and mixed-race as possible alternatives in these classifications, there are also ethnic groups such as Arabs, who are not considered Black nor mixed-race, but neither are they consistently accepted as white in Europe (even if they were traditionally classified as "Caucasoid"), given their origins well outside Europe. (Depending on the agenda of individual writers, Arabs may sometimes be subsumed under "whiteness", much like Egyptians are widely appropriated for it, but everyday practice and the widespread Anti-Arab racism proves their position is at best ambiguous. Let's not forget that most Asians, Oceanians and indigenous Americans are neither black, white nor mixed-race.) Rather, these ethnic groups (also Berbers, by the way) are best classified as brown in this framework. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
Shorter proposition, no forum discussion: I propose dark colour of skin, or black colour of skin, which is more appropriate and conveys the same meaning. 80.187.105.123 (talk) 19:24, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
I think the text you are upset about is long-gone at this point. Simonm223 (talk) 19:48, 30 January 2025 (UTC)
Nope, cassisus dio  HIS CONTEMPORARY stated swptimiua severus was 'libyan by RACE'. And anyone learnt knows 'libyan'was used by the greco roman world to describe the general North Africans of berber descent. An observant one would see how the population of North africa today are called arabs because they speak Arabic and have arab culture while they are actually em81 berbers in blood  and this was the case for the punic era. Also might I add, carthage received independence from phoenicians some 700 years before septimius was born, so calling him 'lebanese ' and not libyan is mind-blowing as even if we do accept he was from phoencian settlers his ancestors were in North africa/libya for more than 700 years ! Simply, he was a libyan who spoke Punic and libyan people have the right to claim him as a part of their history not lebanese people. Zayyanid56774849 (talk) 13:30, 1 February 2025 (UTC) Blocked sock. R Prazeres (talk) 21:24, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
While I am not 100% satisfied with directly quoting "by race" this isn't the material the IP seemed to be concerned with. Simonm223 (talk) 14:18, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
I was concerned about
the use of the word « race », that's all. "African race" sounds really offensive, at least in France. Apparently the phrase is now gone, so there is no discussion anymore. 80.187.75.167 (talk) 08:43, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
also, is race really the right translation? There must be other translations used by academics, right? One French translation uses "de souche" which google translates as "of […] origin". 80.187.75.167 (talk) 08:48, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
The word is genos which can mean 'family', 'clan', 'nation', 'race', 'group', 'type', usually of groups that one belongs to by birth. 'Race' is a very common translation, but the 19th C overtones (whether offensive or simply distracting) mean that a modern translator might go for a periphrasis 'by birth' or 'by origin' Furius (talk) 21:24, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
Perhaps we can paraphrase then and fully expunge "by race". Perhaps "of Libyan ancestry" for the source instead. And please note we give preferred due weight to secondary sources over contemporary primary sources per Wikipedia policy. Simonm223 (talk) 21:45, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
I agree with you but not with 'birth' , genos very clearly is to do with lineage origin ancestry. Nono786547 (talk) 02:32, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Blocked sock. R Prazeres (talk) 21:21, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
Lol of origin  provens me right even more. Spetimius severus was a libyan man or libyan origin there we go sorted why is there so much debate lol. Libyan btw at the time was not used to describe libyans like today rsther native north africans generally lol the greco roman world was known fro generalising native north africnas using the term 'libyan' Nono786547 (talk) 02:30, 19 February 2025 (UTC) Blocked sock. R Prazeres (talk) 21:21, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
Berbers and Copts are two non-Black Indigenous Africans. 2A0A:EF40:127F:CA01:D9D1:86DF:6418:6CD7 (talk) 15:48, 19 October 2025 (UTC)

Hello again @Remsense, please share your peer reviewed articles on the Punic origins of septimius severus to explain the recent undo edit . Lobus (talk) 14:18, 4 December 2024 (UTC)