# Talk:Thomas Wilcher

I request 5-7 days to beef up this article to properly sourced notability.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  15:54, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Does being a NCAA National Champion and 3-time NCAA first team All-American pass at Wikipedia:SPORTS#Amateur_sports_people?--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  16:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
He seems to be a competitor who has competed at the highest level in amateur sports, but I do not see that he meets the general criteria of secondary sources published about him as stated in both Wikipedia:Bio#Athletes and Wikipedia:SPORTS#Amateur_sports_people.  At this time I still do not believe that the article meets notability requirements.  If there are secondary sources about his college career, then he may.  Jons63 (talk) 16:21, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I removed the PROD template after seeing his listing at http://www.michtrack.org/AOY.htm -- he was twice a Michigan High School Athlete of the Year (and his athletic career continued after high school). The fact that his college career was two decades ago means that there will be far less "secondary sources" web content about him than there would be for a contemporary athlete of similar accomplishments. If there is still a desire to delete this article, take it to AfD. --Orlady (talk) 18:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS): 

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 

It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 

It is stable.
No edit wars etc.: 

It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 

Overall:
Pass/Fail: 
Putting on hold.
General comments:

(2a) References
Reference #8 needs a page number for verifiability and the ISBN.
There is no isbn for the media guide.  I do not have it with me (I am traveling in New York and the guide is back in Chicago).--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  16:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Page number added.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  16:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
References #9 and #10 go to a search screen, which tells me nothing about what they are citing.
I kind of assume if a reader wants to verify the information, they would figure out that they have to put his name in the search and hit return.  That is the best we can do.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  12:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Ref #14 is no longer available for free. Can another reference be found to put in its place?
I don't think I have move the refs around and I can still see #14 ("Versus Wisconsin October 4, 1986")--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  12:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I think I move one ref and messed up the count.  I removed the ref I think your are talking about.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  14:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Ref #15 is no longer available.
I removed the ref I think your are talking about.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  14:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Ref #24 also cannot be found.
I don't think I have moved the refs around and I can still see #24 ("UB Announces Initial 2000 Football Recruits")--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  12:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I have swapped out for a different reprint of the same article.—Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 17:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
(3a) Broad in coverage
Is there nothing known about his childhood? Where was he born? Where did he grow up? Does he have siblings?
What about his adult life? Is he married? Does he have children?
What about school? Was he a good student? Did he ever get in trouble for his grades? Did he win any academic scholarships?
Did he play football in high school? The section only mentions track and field.
He is not the subject of biographical articles.  As a sidelight to most articles he is mentioned in his life story remains unpublished.  He was not a notable high school football player by wikipedia standards, based on ungoogleable level of excellence.  His personal life is not told in any articles so I have no information on his family, childhood, adult life other than that Gholston helped him fix up rental properties that he owns.  I think owning rental property is unencyclopedic, so I omitted it in the absence of additional related subject matter.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  18:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Although the article lacks breadth due to his supporting role in all articles, it is notable that there is an uncommonly high propensity for him to be mentioned in articles about his former players.  He must be an interesting personality of sorts for this to occur.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  19:02, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
(4) POV
The article seems pretty "Yay. He's great. He accomplished this and this" to me. Did he ever mess up a game? Did he have critics?
the best I can do for the he's not so great side is add "However, he never caught a pass"--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  17:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
(6) Pics
There are no pics, but the article won't fail because of that. A pic would be nice, though.
I have been working with the Bentley Historical Library.  I am not likely to get anything over the next week although I have over the course of the last ten weeks been able to get images for a couple dozen Michigan athletes.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  17:42, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
General comments
The article could use an infobox of some sort.
I was not sure what type to use, but I added a football infobox.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  11:55, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Try to avoid using phrases like "it is notable that" or "this is notable because". The word notable appears three times in the article. These sentences need to reworded.
Reworded.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  21:00, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The last sentence of High school, says "is considered the fastest in state history by some". I understand why some people would consider it the fastest and why others wouldn't. However, who considers it the fastest. If you are going to mention it, clarify it, or else it sounds weaselly.
Reworded.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  21:05, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
Who is Vernon Gholston? A wikilink in that section too might be useful (although there is one located under the section above it). Also, why mention him at all? What has he done as an athlete in his career that makes him worthy of mention in this article? In other words, how is he famous, and where would I have heard the name before? Ex: ...Vernon Gholston, the current linebacker for the such-and-such team,...
Done.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  14:53, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
"This is pretty similar to the story as told by Wilcher except his side is deeper" The wording here is very informal. Pretty similar? Deeper? I think saying something along the lines of "A similar, although more indepth, story has been told by Wilcher..."
Good suggestion.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  21:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm putting the article on hold until the above is addressed. At the end of the day on March 19, I'll re-examine the article, either passing or failing it. If you have questions, either leave them on my talk page or here, as I'll pop in every couple of days to check on the progress. Good luck in improving the article. Nikki311 23:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll look over it later when I have a little more time, but even with a little scanning, I can tell that it is looking better. Nikki311 23:45, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Great work! The article is looking better, but I'm hesitant to pass it due to the lack of breadth. You should be proud of the improvement, though. I'll wait the week if you want to try looking some more. If you'd like me to fail it, so you can renominate for a second opinion, I'm cool with that, too. Nikki311 04:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I understand the standards.  If I don't find anything in a week, I understand if it fails.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD)  19:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The week is up, so I'm going to fail the article due to lack of breadth. Looking back over the article, another thing it needs before renomination is Template:Persondata. Nikki311 00:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

This article has not changed significantly since being denied promotion. Two things have happened however. 1. Vernon Gholston has become a top NFL athlete.  This makes Wilcher's contribution to the world of athletics much more significant. 2. It has come to my attention that certain breadth requirements are not germane if the information is not in the public domain.  I do not believe information about Wilcher's personal life is in the Public domain although I may be wrong.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  23:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Thomas Wilcher/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

"time MHSAA champion" – expand the acronym at least the first time in the body
the WP:LEAD says Michigan High School Athletic Association (MHSAA).  Why do I need to spell it out again once I explain forthcoming abbreviations.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  05:03, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
"the University of Michigan by" – link the university
Although it is linked in the lead, I will link it again here per your request.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  05:05, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
"Wilcher is the current football head coach " – "Wilcher is the football head coach as of 2008 " – don't use dated terms like "current"
Thanks.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  05:07, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
"for football is interesting because Gholston did not " – definitely should not be considered "interesting" as that is definitely POV; reword this sentence
reworded section.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  05:19, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Gary King (talk) 21:38, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

"as fast as 13.48 and 13.28 (wind-aided)[1]" – needs units and a period
Thanks.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  05:49, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
"Gholston "It was" → "Gholston, "It was"
done.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  05:42, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
"class...He " – "class [...] He "
According to Ellipsis, a slightly different form seems to be prevelant.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM)  05:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Gary King (talk) 05:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

"Marko Cooper, who was 1999 All-USA second team." – shouldn't it be "Marko Cooper, who was on the 1999 All-USA second team."
Please resolve this issue. Otherwise, the article meets the Good Article criteria and has therefore been passed. Gary King (talk) 06:55, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

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