# Talk:Underwire bra

I have removed the image of an underwire from the article until its copyright status is confirmed. I have notified the author, who will hopefully reply and provide licensing terms for the image. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  14:55, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Here are two more images with uncertain license status.  Until their licenses can be confirmed, they will be here, not in the article. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  00:48, 27 April 2009 (UTC) 

Seems to be a phantom. I can't figure out for the life of me where it was published. Neither Google Scholar nor PubMed have any relevant hits for a paper published in 1998 by Wightman. BBC News science reporting is atrocious as a general matter (see e.g. here) so I think I am going to remove this altogether until we can track down the original study. Calliopejen1 (talk) 03:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Note: this is referring to this text: A study published in 1998 showed that "regular use of push-up bras could cause bowel and breathing problems", but Wonderbra model Adriana Karembeu defended underwire push-up bras, as do manufacturers, who say the support their products provide help alleviate back pain. and this article: [1]. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  08:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Seems like there's a bit of biased reporting going on in this section. Yes, occasionally they do set off metal detectors. But I have never experienced this problem in all my life, and neither have most women, judging by internet q&a sites like this. Can we find a good source indicating that this is not a regular occurrence? Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I have moved the "manufacture" section here, since it is all unsourced. If any bits of this can be sourced, those parts, along with the references, can be inserted into the article. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  21:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Bra underwires can be manufactured from metal or plastic. Wire design requirements include wire gauge, length, type of wire, and the color of the tip. Based on these requirements, a blueprint is usually created with computer-aided design software such as AutoCAD. Using the blueprint, a core size wire sample is prepared for customer approval.
Metal underwires are manufactured from high carbon, reeled, stainless steel, sometimes with a nylon coating. The wire is then pulled into a tailor-made cutting mold head in the cutting machine, which cuts and curves the wire. The wire is then heated to approximately 180 °C (356 °F) to 220 °C (428 °F) for 30 minutes to set the shape. The tips of the metal underwire are then often dipped in an abrasion-resistant nylon coating designed to cover their sharp edges. The wires are hung in the coating machine which pre-heats the tips, coats them with nylon powder, and applies heat to fuse the nylon coating with the metal wire. Decorative powder coating finishes are sometimes used to to create different colored tips, and in order to distinguish the bra wire position during assembly of the bra, the center front tip is normally a different color from the armhole tip.
Plastic underwires are created using injection molding. After the mold is designed and milled, granular plastic is pre-heated, melted, and injected into the wire-shaped mold cavity through a gate and runner system. The mold remains cold so the finished plastic wire solidifies almost as soon as the mold is filled.
Bra wires undergo quality assurance testing, including the use of a push-pull load tester to verify the strength of the wire.

In the introduction to the article is the statement: "The wire helps to lift, separate, shape, and support a woman's breasts" but sites no genuine evidence.  From an engineering perspective all but 'shape' seem to be erroneous claims.  A wire can affect the shape of the breast root.   But it can not provide 'lift' because the root of the breast is fixed to the chest, it is the cup (usually in combination with the strap) that 'lifts' the breast.   There are plenty of articles on the Web that make similar claims to the introduction of this article, some with pseudoscientific explanations that any objective scientist or engineer will realise is nonsense.  I suggest the introduction be changed to either cite objective evidence, or qualify the statement that manufacturers "claim that..." FreeFlow99 (talk) 15:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Angry History Guy has recently made an edit to this page concerning its use of gendered language, which has now been reverted. I'm of the opinion that gendered usage is not in any way necessary or beneficial to the article, but I believe, per WP:BRD, we should discuss this. Uness232 (talk) 07:19, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

And until we reach consensus it stays the way it has been for the last 10 years. I disagree with the change, and I disagree with your attempt to restore the change without a discussion. And it's WP:CANVASSING to ping just the participant who agrees with you.
Yes, men can wear underwire bras, but almost none of them ever do. There's no need to use gender neutral language here, any more than there is for jockstraps (which women can wear), or bras, bikinis, panties, halternecks, wedding gowns or lingerie (all of which men can wear). Meters (talk) 20:40, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
I am sorry for only pinging Angry History Guy and also for rushing the change; I was not aware that it was canvassing. However, I disagree with you on the use of gendered language. In a way, I actually agree with you when you said this article does not have a need for gender-neutral language "any more than there is for jockstraps, bras, bikinis, panties, halternecks, wedding gowns or lingerie." However, a considerable amount of these articles (including jockstraps, panties, halternecks) already avoid gendered language (and lingerie specifically talks about gendered contexts, see the survey in the lede). In panties, for example, the clearest mention of gender is "primarily/designed to be worn by women", which is completely fine; it does not imply exclusivity in any way. It's also okay to say that underwire bras are "women's clothing", as men can wear women's clothing and vice versa, it just means it was made for women to wear.
The main problem I have here is the assumption that only women would wear them. It is unnecessary to say "to help lift, separate, shape, and support a woman's breasts." A wearer of an underwire bra might not be a woman, and might have breasts anyway, so the bra helps to "lift, separate, shape, and support" that wearer's breasts too. As a compromise, I think "designed to help lift, separate, shape, and support a woman's breasts." is okay (not ideal in my opinion, but fine anyway).
I'm okay with a partial revert on the incidences of bras saving lives or similar, as I've realized that the articles already mention gender. Uness232 (talk) 23:46, 2 October 2021 (UTC)