# Talk:Waldorf Astoria New York

According to the discussion here: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html
the story about FDR's car riding the elevator may be apocryphal, though Pershing does seem to have actually ridden the elevator, with or without FDR.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.157.149 (talk) 04:03, 2 October 2011 (UTC) 

I'm new here so didn't want to just go ahead and un-do people's work, but where it says "An even more luxurious, virtual "hotel within a hotel" in its upper section is known as The Waldorf Towers operated by Conrad Hotels & Resorts." ... this is no longer true. Prior to the launch of the "Waldorf=Astoria" collection, there was the Waldorf-Astoria hotel operated by Hilton Hotels and the Waldorf-Towers (the hotel within a hotel) operated by Conrad Hotels (the luxury brand of Hilton). Now that Waldorf=Astoria Collection is a brand within its own right, the hotel is now branded as such (while still being operated by the parent company, Hilton Hotels Corporation) - hope that's clear ... is it OK if I edit this page? G-macscot (talk) 21:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The first sentence begins "A wealthy sybarites' paradise." Maybe it is, but "sybarite" has a negative connotation - it is a person devoted to the pursuit of pleasure, and is synonymous with "hedonist" - and I don't think its association with such people needs to be mentioned in these terms or in the first sentence of the article. Opinions? — Dan | Talk 01:06, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

A rhetorical flourish that adds no info and sounds like marketing copy anyway - lose it! Stan 02:08, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
well, it's become "socialite" now...saturnight 20:37, Sep 2, 2004 (UTC)

Someone or something called "Waldorf" got its name before the Astor's. The Astors do have an article. I'd like to read about Waldorf. -DePiep 09:05, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, the article is clear about this. I rest my question. -DePiep 09:10, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

The official rendering of the hotel's name is actually Waldorf=Astoria, with an equal sign in place of a dash. The URL www.waldorfastoria.com redirects to a Hilton portal for the Waldorf=Astoria and Waldorf Towers.
I don't think Wikipedia allows pages to contain an equals sign in their title.  I created the page with the name "Waldorf-Astoria hotel" because that's how it appeared on the Wikipedia:Requested articles page.  Do you think the page should be re-named to "Waldorf Astoria hotel"?
Acegikmo1 17:21, Mar 20, 2004 (UTC)

I'd call the hyphen correct. Though it looks just like an equals, I think that it's just the way hyphens are rendered in that font and not intended to be an equal sign. -- Djinn112 01:57, Mar 21, 2004 (UTC)
Hmmmm. Wasn't aware of that limitation. I think the title should stay as is; I've done some Web searches, and most of the time, the hotel name is rendered with a dash, even though not technically correct. I'll make the page a little more clear in that respect.
Dale Arnett 18:05, Mar 20, 2004 (UTC)

Just to be clear: it IS an equals sign, not a double hyphen. Even in the FAQ linked at the current bottom of this page, the hotel uses an equals. —Frungi 07:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
"the hotel uses an equals"... in the Logo, that is a free representation of the double hyphen. --Krauss (talk) 11:47, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

According to the Manual of Style, this article should be at Waldorf-Astoria Hotel.
See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks). I am mainly referring to this section:
(proposed) Likewise, avoid using special characters that are not pronounced and are included purely for decoration. In the article about a trademark, it is acceptable to use decorative characters the first time the trademark appears, but thereafter, an alternative that follows the standard rules of punctuation should be used:
--/ɛvɪs/ /tɑːk/ /kɑntɹɪbjuʃənz/ 22:25, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Support. — Knowledge Seeker দ 04:29, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Oppose weakly.  The first time it appears is in the page title.--Henrygb 09:46, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Oppose (sorry, I was out of town at the time this took place) - the correct name should be used. — Dan | Talk 22:38, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
Support. Due to technical restrictions, many special characters are unusable for article titles (See Wikipedia:Naming Conventions). The "equals sign" used here is not the "double hyphen" specified, so I don't see why we should insist upon a visual approximation (rather than the syntactically approximate single hyphen) in the title. The article's text is quite adequate to the task of informing the reader of the hotel's typographic quirks. Dystopos 22:01, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

The official name is Waldorf=Astoria and that has nothing to do with font. The article-name can stay the same, but at least use the correct name in the article please. Look at this page for the ppl who don't believe it. — ēmpoor! 15:51, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Quote from the above site: The corridor built to connect the two buildings became an enduring symbol of the combined Waldorf and Astoria hotels - it is represented by the "=" in The Waldorf=Astoria. — ēmpoor! 15:53, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to see the quote told in the article. -DePiep 12:47, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm not convinced the = is part of the legal name. I believe the = is part of the logo and that the = is a convention that the hotel uses. If you check with the US Trademark Office, the trademark is for "Waldorf-Astoria" and a typed logo. There's no TM with an equals sign. [1] It's not unusual for companies to claim that their name is something different from their legal name. Lots of companies put capital letters in the middle of works, for example. I know I did this when I worked in marketing for some companies -- it's not illegal, because you aren't setting out to commit fraud and you're just "doing business as". --Westendgirl 06:44, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
Similarly, the FedEx logo "officially" contains a forward-pointing arrow in it's design. That does not mean we need to approximate it by using "FedE→x" in our article. --Dystopos 14:41, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
I thought that was just an unintentional illusion created by the white space between the letters Ex? By that logic, you could also say it officially contains a spoon in the lower half of the first e. —Frungi 08:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
It was not unintentional. The designer, Lindon Leader, says this in an interview: "Once I decided to refine the concept of the embedded arrow, I found that, to make the arrow more legitimate and identifiable, one needed to actually reconstruct the letterforms in order to make the arrow happen." [2]. You can see how the arrow was incorporated into the Arabic version of the logo here. --Dystopos 14:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Oops... I moved this page of my own accord before reading the talk page to see if it had even been discussed before.. sorry to anyone who thinks I jumped the gun :)
Anyway - now having read the discussion, yes I do still think that the equals sign should be used, since Wikipedia articles' titles do allow it, and it is how the hotel prefers to title itself. It doesn't matter what their "legal name" is in any corporate registry; this titling is how the hotel wishes to be called. If you used that legal name argument, then you would have to re-title all articles about notable people to include their full, exact legal names as per their passports, ignoring any variations by which they are popularly known. EuroSong 01:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Your reasoning should not outweigh the reasoning of other editors. Please restore the page pending the revised consensus that will, no doubt, follow your argument. --Dystopos 21:40, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
As obviously some before I got confused by this punctuation issue. I find it even more confusing as the introduction to the article calls the hotel "Waldorf-Astoria". Wouldn't it be better to mention right away that the hotel itself uses "Waldorf-Astoria"? The way it is a reader (like me) will be tempted to think that the "="s are typos in the text. --Hansbaer (talk) 09:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Any idea when they started using the = instead of - ? -- Beardo (talk) 18:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
I no longer see an equals sign on the webpage for the Waldorf Astoria New York...did they drop this? ask123 (talk) 16:01, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Just about the cleanest public restrooms in the United States.

"Rest"rooms? You mean rooms where people go for a rest? :P
Or do you just mean toilets... hehe. EuroSong talk 22:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

In the third paragraph of the history section, there is a rather lengthy digression about the descendents of George Boldt, the first manager-host of the Waldorf.  A Philadelphia family of hoteliers well into the twentieth century, the Boldts owned or managed the Bellevue Stratford on Broad Street in Philadelphia, but, other than George Boldt, none of them had anything to do with the Waldorf-Astoria.  I think this material, while interesting (I guess), is best deleted from this article.  It strikes me as clearly irrelevant.  Do you agree?    PeterHuntington 20:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Any factual/encyclopedic info might best be moved to another, more relevant article. --Dystopos 21:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

How does Hilton Hotels come into the picture? The article doesn't connect the dots between this guy named Lucius Boomer and the Hilton hotel chain. I had read in a book by Conrad Hilton (which is available in all Hilton hotel rooms, as far as I know, on top of the Gideon Bible) that Hilton had bought the Waldorf Astoria back in the fourties or fifties or something. Or at least I think I've read that in said book. Would someone check in the book next time they get to a Hilton? (and, no, I don't mean Paris Hilton) 204.52.215.13 22:13, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Hilton Worldwide says the date was 1949. That still doesn't solve the question of how Boomer relates to Hilton, though. 204.52.215.13 22:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
...and this also looks interesting... 204.52.215.13 22:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

As per the template against the trivia section, trivia sections are discouraged under the guideline Wikipedia:Trivia sections.  With the exception perhaps of the mention about the film Maid in Manhatten most of these are tangential or not relevant facts.  Accordongly I propose to remove them but will allow time for discussion here.--Matilda talk 05:52, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I added a film named after the Waldorf, Ginger Rogers in Weekend at the Waldorf. I would expect that should continue to be included.--Gloriamarie (talk) 20:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC
I corrected the date of the Ginger Rogers film from 1954 to 1945; I assume it was a simple typographical transposition error.  It can be confirmed by checking IMDB, Wikipedia's own article on the film or any standard reference that mentions the film.  Sorry, I rarely make direct edits myself because I've made a couple of doozies of mistakes in the past, but I'm sure about this one.  And I have some specific reasons for not wanting to create an account but don't mind giving my real name and identity, which is is Steve Lewis of NYC.
Something about Track 61, the Waldorf-Astoria subway platform would be interesting. Шизомби (talk) 01:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Can the section on Marilyn Monroe be the longest sentence in Wikipedia?  It has at least 90 words.  Barnaby the Scrivener (talk) 19:58, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

The latest version as of 09/26/10 is almost entirely verbatim the same as text in http://boldtcastle.wordpress.com/stories/buildings/waldorf-astoria/, with some additional items added in each subheadding. Don't have time to find the editor who did this now. Someone please review the edit history and notify him or her. --Mistakefinder (talk) 08:51, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I propose deletion of the elevator picture from the article. It is a poorly taken picture of a tiny portion of the elevator giving little to nothing to the article. Appears to just be posted by someone who is just obsessed by elevators. I don't think anyone cares what the "indicator" looks like or who made it. Mazeau (talk) 14:34, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Room prices vary from month to month, week to week, indeed day to day. Listing prices as of a certain date is highly misleading and frankly looses its relevance almost immediately. A room's price on May 1, 2014 won't necessarily be the price on May 2 or May 10 or on any other day. For this reason, I am removing the prices that are listed in the lede. If anyone objects, please voice your opinion here. I am open to others' thoughts on the matter!
ask123 (talk) 15:51, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

 --Rosiestep (talk) 19:26, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

[moved above] Epicgenius (talk) 15:34, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Waldorf Astoria New York/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 14:47, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Taking this review as requested and will complete this within a day ☯ Jaguar ☯ 14:47, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors: 

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists: 

Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section: 

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary: 

C. No original research: 

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects: 

B. Focused: 

Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias: 

Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc: 

Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content: 

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions: 

Overall:
Pass or Fail: 


### Initial comments
##### Lead
"in October 2014 it was announced that the Anbang Insurance Group of China" - just minor, but does such an article exist for this company?
Nope, but it arguably should.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:26, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
"The Royal Suite, named after the Duke and Duchess of Windsor" - who were they at the time?
Linked.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:30, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Other than this the lead summarises the article well and is of appropriate length, so this meets the WP:LEAD requirements.


##### Name
Should those names be in bold? Typically only phrases in the lead are emboldened


##### History
"with Boldt's assistance, John Astor persuaded his mother to move uptown" - is this John Jacob Astor IV? I know that it's mentioned later in the next sentence, but are there two John Astor's?
Linked in first instance.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:41, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
"..."Astor's Folly". with the general perception of the palatial" - typo, capital 'W'
comma added.
"and a fashion show of forty creations by Dior, Fath, Balmain" - Fath leads to disambiguation page
Done.
"The slender central tower became known as the Waldorf Towers" - should be de-bolded
I think it needs to be emboldened as its sort of a building in its own right at the top of the hotel and is often referred to as that.
"including the likes of General Douglas MacArthur..." - would cut "the likes of" to make it more neutral
Removed.
"Soon after the opening of the hotel in 1931, hotelier Conrad Hilton" - this opening is in the later history section, shouldn't it be chronologically before?
It's there before I mention him fully buying it in 1972.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:49, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


##### Architecture
"It was modelled after the grand salon" - American Spelling, modeled
Changed.
"with a handsome china collection including 48 Sevres plates" - I'd cut 'handsome' for neutrality
I think it perfectly describes them, they're not your average looking plates!
"The hotel had its own railway platform" - past tense? It doesn't explain what happened to it?
Yes. It still exists I believe but as I say it isn't open to the public so "had" is correct really.
"Such is the architectural and cultural heritage of the hotel that tours are conducted of the hotel for guests" - I've read it four times and I still can't understand this!
The rooms and its history is so notable that guests pay to be taken on tours of the hotel, is it really that unclear?
"The fourth floor has the banquet and sales offices, and many of the suites including Barron, Vanderbilt, Windsor, Conrad, Vertes, Louis XVI and Cole Porter" - what are these names referring to? Are they the names of the suites?
Linked.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:06, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
"The fourth floor was where the notorious Sunday night card games were played" - what makes Sunday card games notorious? Sounds pretty peaceful to me LOL!
I think a great deal was gambled, millions regularly. The book says notorious.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:06, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


##### In popular culture
"In Meg Cabot's novel Jinx" - Jinx leads to a disambiguation page


#### References
Ref 179 redirects to the main page
Replaced with book ref.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
The external link "The Waldorf Astoria - Host To The World", DVD-2008 redirects to the main page
Removed


### On hold
This is overall a well written and comprehensive article, with most of the concerns I found to be relatively minor and technical. I'm sure it wouldn't take too much for this article to pass, but I'll put this on hold for the standard seven days until they can all be clarified. Thanks! ☯ Jaguar ☯ 19:19, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
@Jaguar: All addressed I think, thanks for the review!.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:12, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

No problem, and thanks for addressing them so fast! Long story short I think that this article now meets the GA criteria as it is already broad, well written and comprehensive as it is.  ☯ Jaguar ☯ 22:39, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I see that this article is being GA reviewed, but I'm just wondering if maybe we can split the different, 2-3 sentence entries for each person/group of people into different paragraphs. Epicgenius (talk) 15:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
5 paragraphs is fine now.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:42, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Would that be a diminished seventh chord? Without the cited source one can't be sure. Everything gets past book editors nowadays... --Wetman (talk) 00:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Haha, well-spotted! Probably a 9th flattened 5th chord! Sorry, I have guitar chords on the brain!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

@Global301HW:, what are your objections to these edits? We can have both websites displayed as official websites. However, breaking reference links to one website is generally going to break the reference itself, and then the text would no longer be supported by the source. epic genius (talk) 20:17, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/02/business/dealbook/anbang-global-shopping-spree-china-mystery-ownership.html . John Vandenberg (chat) 10:56, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Interesting!♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:21, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Supposed to have lived there for decades on the 42nd floor, in a suite as big as the neighbouring US Embassy to the U.N., paid well to keep private. True? If so, who? 86.161.143.121 (talk) 12:33, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

The article claimed, "Since Hoover, every President of the United States has either stayed over or lived in the Waldorf Astoria, although Jimmy Carter claimed to have never stayed overnight at the hotel." That was cited to an article from 2009 (mentioning Barack Obama staying at the hotel) and a book from 1991. However, there have been two presidencies since Obama's. The hotel closed on March 1, 2017, a few weeks into Donald Trump's presidency, and has been closed for most of Joe Biden's presidency (possibly to reopen later this year before he leaves office). -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:18, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

This sounds reasonable, as the sentence is quite old (dating from the article's GA promotion in 2015), and neither Biden nor Trump would have been able to stay at the Waldorf Astoria. – Epicgenius (talk) 03:18, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Biden might have stayed there at some time before he was president. (The sentence refers to "stayed over or lived in", and Hoover lived at the hotel long after his presidency, so maybe they were counting presidents who stayed at the hotel any time during their life, not just during their presidency.) But Trump, to my knowledge, has had a residence he could use in New York City at all times since the day he was born (even when he was living elsewhere). He wouldn't have needed to stay at the Waldorf Astoria when he could stay at his condo at the Trump Tower, just 10 blocks away from there. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:20, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
I see your point about the ambiguity of the sentence. I thought the sentence referred to presidents staying there during their presidencies. In any case, the source only supports the fact that presidents Hoover through Obama stayed at the hotel, so I don't think there is anything wrong with your edit. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Supposedly at the Francis Cardinal Spellman feast 200 guests consumed 2670 kg of food, or 13 kg each. I don't believe that. GA-RT-22 (talk) 18:43, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

@Jamesluckard: Thank you for adding the new reopening date to the article. Unfortunately we can't use it, because the New York Post is not a reliable source. See Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. In addition to that, this information needs to go in the History section, with a source citation, then if it seems important enough can be added (with no source citation) to the lead. See WP:LEAD. If you can find a reliable source I would be happy to help add it to the article. GA-RT-22 (talk) 11:12, 14 June 2025 (UTC)

The Starlight Roof should be mentioned in the Bars and restaurants section. Also according to this [3] Oscar's had already closed at the time the renovation started, replaced by La Chine. GA-RT-22 (talk) 06:59, 16 July 2025 (UTC)