# Talk:Pınargözü Cave

For attribution purposes, the original version is based on the Turkish Wikipedia article of the same name, Pınargözü Cave, this diff. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:36, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

It has been extensively modified since and basically bears no resemblance to the Turkish version anymore. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:22, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pınargözü Cave/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 17:39, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I'll review this. ceranthor 17:39, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Should post my review tomorrow! (August 23) ceranthor 01:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
No problem :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:07, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Lead
" longest cave in Turkey." - probably worth mentioning the exact length in the lead too
I've reworked the lead to include the fact that the explored length is disputed. I think it would be redundant to get into the specifics of it in the lead only to go back over it later.
"owing to the numerous waterfalls and traverses within.[4]" - not sure I like ending the sentence with "within"
I'll change it if you want, but it's not grammatically incorrect according to Merriam-Webster: [1]
Exploration
"M. Clarke," - no first name known?
For the names, it might just make sense to use first initials and full last name for consistency
In sources I found, these people are usually referred to by initial and last name, but I'll do some more digging.
I was able to find some sources that give full names for what are probably two of the people named, but generally these sources don't confirm the person's involvement in the Pinargozu expeditions. See this entry about a speleologist named Jean Loup Pintaux for an example of what I mean. Same name, same initials, same caving club, but the source doesn't say he's the Pinargozu guy. There's this caving log from the British Speleological Association that describes a "Mike Clarke" page 27, and the last page of this log refers to an M. Clark who published in the British Speleological Bulletin - again the details are reasonably similar but there's no way to 100% know for sure. I couldn't find the BSB online, but I've reached out to the British Caving Research Association to see if they have any way to scan that issue for me. Finally, I can't find a single document that even gives an initial for "Doniat", let alone a full name.
Actually I found that the French Speleo Federation report names Mike Clarke specifically as an Englishman, so I've put that in the article. I've left J.L. as-is for now.
"Further explorations through the 1970s" - reads awkwardly... maybe "Further exploration" (without the s after exploration)
Tweaked.
"a French team claimed to have surveyed the cave at over 16 km (10 mi) long.[8]" - more than, not over
Tweaked.
"The full extent of Pınargözü Cave has still not been surveyed.[1]" - I think this can end the previous paragraph. It shouldn't be a one sentence paragraph.
I attached it to the previous one.
Geology
"Pınargözü Cave is located within a karst region of the western Taurus Mountains, which spans nearly 40,000 km2 (15,000 sq mi).[5] " - I'd replace "spans" with "encompasses", or add "an area of" after "spans"
Tweaked.
" and the Pınargözü Cave is no exception." - not sure this tone is encyclopedic, and I don't think this declaration is necessary
Why not? The article gives a little bit of information about karst caves to set the reader up, then this statement transitions the reader from karst caves in general to Pinargozu in specific by stating that it is no
" just over 2,400 caves" - more than, not over
"just over" is perfectly grammatically reasonable, per Merriam-Webster: [2]
"there may be over 20,000.[7]" - same as above
Same as above
"over 700 litres per second during most of the year[1] to approximately 500–600 litres per second during the slower-flowing summer season.[5] " - same as above
Same as above
"round 4–5 °C (39–41 °F)" - about, not around
Around is a reasonable synonym for approximately, per Merriam-Webster: [3]
"requiring appropriate clothing.[8]" - such as? Also confusing since it's not open to the public?
I refactored it to specifically state that protective diving gear is needed. It's not open to the public, but researchers like the ones mentioned in the article do go into it so I don't think that's confusing.
Images
Are no images available?
Not a single one that's freely licensed. I looked when I made the article, and I looked again now. Really disappointing.
References
Ref 10 is a deadlink.
I've replaced it.
Earwig's tool looks good.
Seems a bit sparse on references. I understand this is a relatively unexplored cave, but I see there are more sources available that do not appear to have been used:
Zinc Resources
Ecology
Bit more ecology
Radiation
History
More on air current
Geology

Google Books suggests there are quite a bit of sources that could potentially have information: [4] Any thoughts? Have these already been consulted? ceranthor 15:10, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

@Premeditated Chaos: Let me know when you get to these. ceranthor 20:25, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
Hi, sorry for the wait, I know I've been actively gnoming a bit but I haven't had a chance to actually sit down and look at anything involving. I'm going to look at addressing your comments over the next couple of days. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:59, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Okay, I've started addressing the issues in order. I've put my comments underneath yours, but if that doesn't suit let me know and I'll move them. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:56, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
I've done a lot of expansion on the exploration history and fiddled with the refs a bit, added a few new ones. As for the recommended refs:

I don't have ProQuest so I can't get that first link but I'd love to see a copy if you have access.
This is a trivial mention of a fungus found in the Pinargozu region, but there's no mention of the cave itself in this article.
I don't have T & F access, so I can't get this one. If you do, again I'm happy to look.
This is entirely Turkish but the abstract looks like it's quite a technical bit of research - not sure if fluctuating radiation levels are necessary detail for a general encyclopedia article.
I already looked at this and found it's simply a trivial reiteration of Pinargozu being the longest cave in Turkey. No new information.
I'm not sure how it is for you but all I can see from this is Bakalowicz's graph, which doesn't provide much additional useful information.
I wasn't able to find online access to this when I wrote the article in the first instance.
I've also re-checked Google Scholar, as well as Questia, DeepDyve, and ScienceDirect, which are all I have access to that would be relevant, and didn't find anything additional that would be useful. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:47, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

@Ceranthor:, sorry to hassle, have you had a chance to look at the new edits? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:25, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, been a bit under the weather. Will get to them ASAP. ceranthor 23:07, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
No problem! Get some rest and hopefully feel better soon :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:42, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
@Premeditated Chaos: Everything looks fine now, except that the internally linked references (to the sources) don't appear to work. Once that's fixed, I'm happy to pass this. ceranthor 14:04, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
I went ahead and fixed this - will pass now. ceranthor 17:54, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks very much for the review! Hope you're feeling better. Cheers! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:30, 29 August 2018 (UTC)