# Talk:Silver Line (MBTA)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Silver Line (MBTA). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120503065258/http://www.itdp.org/documents/20110526ITDP_USBRT_Report-HR.pdf to http://www.itdp.org/documents/20110526ITDP_USBRT_Report-HR.pdf
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:24, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

On my desktop browser (Safari, OS-X up to date), The route map partially overlaps the table of contents. Any suggestions?--agr (talk) 15:23, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 

Our lead says the Silver Line is branded as bus rapid transit, a term that is well defined at its own Wikipedia page. On our Silver Line page, we use an infobox whose service_type parameter contains the value Bus rapid transit (disputed). After I removed "(disputed)" from that parameter, Pi.1415926535 restored it with the edit summary, not a joke at all - there's an entire cited section about the dispute. 
This apparently alludes to subsection 3.2.3 Indirect routing, about a now-resolved controversy involving Silver Line's access to a single ramp operated by the Massachusetts Department of Transportation. That historical controversy does not dispute the Silver Line's overall service type as rapid transit.
The template we use, Template:Infobox Bus transit, redirects to Template:Infobox bus company, which in turn prescribes values for the service_type parameter. Under the Description column, we find Bus or coach or express; the Example column cites Bus. There is no reason to infer from this that we should amend the service_type parameter to include "(disputed)" when the dispute in question pertains not to Silver Line's designation as a bus rapid transit system, but to a single ramp along its route.
Accordingly, I request consensus to remove "(disputed)" from the service_type parameter. NedFausa (talk) 20:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

No, that refers to the subsection "BRT quality", which contains five paragraphs discussing the lack of BRT features across the entire system, cited to sources that explicitly argue that the Silver Line is not BRT. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

For the past couple days I've been attempting to remove the Silver Line from the MBTA subway article and List of MBTA subway stations, but people keep reverting it. I shall respectfully ask for consensus because the Silver Line is definitely not a subway service, and these articles misleadingly call it bus rapid transit when it isn't even that: it's never been anything more than a bus with fancy branding. Though it's painted the same thickness as the four rapid transit lines on the subway map, the T's website has only and always put the Silver Line's schedules with the bus schedules. Additionally, our own Template:MBTA puts the Silver Line in the bus section, and Template:MBTA Subway Stations excludes the Silver Line. I am doing this because the Silver Line's continued inclusion in the subway club here has literally confused the Guinness World Records: when defining the terms for an acquaintance of mine's upcoming T subway speedrun, they included the surface bus stops despite that making no sense under the record rules. In conclusion, the Silver Line does not deserve to be inconsistently called rapid transit here. Thank you for your consideration.   World Metro (talk) 06:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
There is definitely a lot of disagreement over this in real life and it does stretch back many years. Your viewpoint is also already presented in the criticism section. The problem is that you are making these changes based on your opinion without presenting any sources whatsoever. If you can add reliable sources as part of this discussion that back-up your viewpoint then I think we'd have a good starting point. Bottom line is we have to present the information as it's listed in reliable sources. If the Guinness Book folks are confused, then that's quite embarrassing for them not Wikipedia. Grk1011 (talk) 14:13, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Agreed. Wikipedia is not for righting great wrongs. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia is a summary of information from reliable sources. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
OK. For what it's worth, here's my research on the history of the T's official position on the matter. The Beginner's Guide to the Subway says "There are four main subway lines—the Green, Blue, Orange, and Red lines—with 125 stops throughout the region." and "The Silver Line is listed alongside train routes sometimes, but it's actually a bus! Some Silver Line stops are underground and use fare gates, just like subway stations."[1] This implies the Silver Line is separate from the subway system. The Beginner's Guide to the Bus similarly says "You might be confused to find the Silver Line listed with train routes sometimes, but it's actually a bus! Technically, it's a bus rapid transit system, which means part of its route is on its own dedicated lane or road."[2]
I also mentioned the schedules sections of the T's website: currently the Silver Line is exclusively in the bus section, with no mention of it in the subway section.[3][4] As far back as 2002, the Silver Line has consistently been listed with bus schedules.[5] As a counterexample, the 2007 version of the website had it in both bus and subway, only linking to the subway schedule pdf.[6][7][8] By 2017, the Silver Line's subway page linked to a bus schedule pdf.[9][10] Finally, in the 2018 version of the website, the Silver Line was removed entirely from the subway section, as it remains to this day.[11][12]
With the rest of the T's website now agreeing with my viewpoint, there is only one remaining official counterexample: that the Silver Line is painted as if it were a line on the subway map itself.[13] The MassDOT Rapid Transit GIS layer begrudgingly includes the Silver Line with this disclaimer: "It should be noted that the Silver Line actually consists of buses, not trains, but the line is included in this layer because the MBTA includes it as one of the color-coded lines on its subway system map."[14]
On final notes, the revered Changes to Transit Service in the MBTA District covers the Silver Line as a subsection of the bus.[15] I hope you will take these all into consideration. World Metro (talk) 04:53, 9 February 2024 (UTC)