# Talk:Watch the Throne

HAM and Otis are the only singles released from the album!!! Godfuckingdammitt

"No Church in the Wild" has been receiving radio airplay here in the Philippines. Maybe someone can find a source if NCITW has been released as an official single or a radio promo single. Thanks. Jal11497 (talk) 15:38, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Can someone update it's wikipedia page with more specific info in the instrumentation? IT's under composition. Thanks. :)

Watch The Throne reached #1 in Norway. Source: http://lista.vg.no/liste/topp-40-album/2  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.212.4.150 (talk) 16:37, 19 August 2011 (UTC) 

I feel we should remove the featurings of Curtis Mayfield & Otis Redding because they are clearly NOT a featured singer or guest artist. They are only SAMPLED in the song's hook, if that was the case practically every producer would have to have a "featuring..." credit because of their chosen samples. Case in point, on the album 4:21...The Day After by Method Man on the song "Say", it only has a sample of Lauryn Hill doing the chorus by Erick Sermon, BUT she is not physically present on the track herself therefore Method Man did not have "featuring Lauryn Hill" on the album notes.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.135.42.68 (talk) 21:00, 17 August 2011 (UTC) 

"Featured" is a certain credit, more than simply a musician being on a song. See this book page (via GoogleBooks) about the definition betweeen featured and non-featured. If there is a "featured" credit, per liner notes, then it remains. Dan56 (talk) 21:10, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I can't edit this to put it in, but the SPIN review is in with 6/10 stars for someone who can edit it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.53.37.174 (talk) 17:28, 10 August 2011 (UTC) 

The tracklisiting you have doesn't properly list the producers. New Day is only by RZA, The Joy is only Pete & Kanye. He doesnt have co-production on everything.[1]  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peruvianhomie36 (talk • contribs) 19:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 
Somebody also sort out the mess that is the track listing  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.202.195 (talk) 11:03, 9 August 2011 (UTC) 
Rza co-produced "New Day"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.127.242 (talk) 05:09, 23 August 2011 (UTC) 

im pretty sure the power remix features jayz aswell

It does. All songs on this EP feature both kanYe and Jay-Z. Yvesnimmo (talk) 19:31, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Monster has already charted on Billboard R&B/Hip Hop charts, then why doesn't it have it's own article?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Felipenor (talk • contribs) 02:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC) 

Probably because someone hasn't bothered to make one. Yvesnimmo (talk) 02:42, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Then how can I make one? I've tried to, but the link redirects to Watch the throne's page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Felipenor (talk • contribs) 02:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC) 
Hey, Are You all sure that Dj Premier produced "Monster"? bdds14  —Preceding undated comment added 19:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC). 

http://rapfix.mtv.com/2010/09/30/kanye-cancels-good-friday/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dasanik97 (talk • contribs) 03:59, 1 October 2010 (UTC) 

Okay. Yvesnimmo (talk) 15:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

singles section says so appalled is on watch the throne but it is on my beautiful dark twisted fantasy so it wont b here  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.56.160.18 (talk) 10:14, 23 October 2010 (UTC) 

https://consequence.net/2010/10/08/consequence-of-kanye-a-dummys-guide-to-kanye-wests-current-projects/8/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.56.170.176 (talk) 14:14, 24 October 2010 (UTC) 

This track is in no way confirmed for the album.
It is as of now  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.45.216 (talk) 21:37, 5 August 2011 (UTC) 

I don't understand how this is a single from the album, when it's not actually on the album.  Is there a term for that?  216.243.36.133 (talk) 23:18, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Is the official single for the new album, produced by Lex Luger.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.140.125 (talk) 17:42, 11 January 2011 (UTC) 
The first single (H.A.M) has already been released and the album is confirmed for a march release, so I don't see why there isn't an article for H.A.M. Maybe you guys are waiting until next week, when it will chart on the Hot 100.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.83.52.253 (talk) 13:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 

Front Cover Album Cover
File:Http://watchthethrone.com/images/cover.jpg
Track Listing
1. No Church in The Wild (Feat. Frank Ocean)
2. Lift Off (Feat. Beyoncé)
3. Niggas in Paris
4. Otis (Feat. Otis Redding)
5. Gotta Have It
6. New Day
7. Prime Time
8. Who Gon Stop Me
9. Murder to Excellence
10. Welcome to The Jungle
11. Sweet Baby Jesus (Feat. Frank Ocean)
12. Love You So (Feat. Mr Hudson)
Bonus Cuts
13. Illest Motherfucker Alive
14. H*A*M
15. That’s My Bitch
16. The Joy (Feat. Curtis Mayfield)
 Not done. The official website states that the standard edition is 10 songs and deluxe is 14. also track listing isn't sourced. Also a tracklisting and cover are not alone notable per WP:NALBUMS. — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 [talk] 23:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Logicrulez (talk) 22:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

We know the album's name, release date, track-listing and cover - surely this is enough for an article under WP:NMG#Albums? All of these facts have been officially announced through Jay-Z's blog "Life + Times: see http://lifeandtimes.com/watch-the-throne-deluxe-tracklisting Sufur222 (talk) 19:32, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

nope.... per WP:NALBUMS an article that does little to go beyond the tracklisting is not yet notable. I suggest people make it in a sandbox first and then establish notability. — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 [talk] 21:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Watch the Throne (Kanye West and Jay-Z album)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sampsonite5 (talk • contribs) 09:37, 14 July 2011 (UTC) 
ALRIGHT NIGGAS I DONT KNOW HOW TO BE ALL FANCY WITH IT BUT THE PAGE IS PROTECTED NOW BUT ITS STILL ALL FUCKED UP AND SOMEONE NEEEDS TO FIX IT NOW

NOW  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.157.224 (talk) 00:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 

The artists' album chronology and the album's single still need to be fixed. They should be My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (2010) for Kanye West and The Blueprint 3 (2010) for Jay-Z. The singles should be HAM and Lift Off.
Also, is this image of the album cover allowed to be added to the article under Fair Use?
http://cdn.pitchfork.com/media/throne.jpg
It's from this article.
http://pitchfork.com/news/43173-kanyejay-z-reveal-iwatch-the-thronei-tracklist/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Korhoden (talk • contribs) 00:35, 19 July 2011 (UTC) 

The image needs an appropriate copyright tag, as it is a non-free image (see Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline). Dan56 (talk) 02:29, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

No official singles for the album have been confirmed.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.43.155.85 (talk) 23:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC) 

well...i didnt know where to put this information , but jay-z and kanye west announced their new tour( watch the throne support tour)  and they have confirmed a lot of tour dates here is a source :) http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.16125/title.jay-z-kanye-west-announce-new-dates-for-watch-the-throne-tour/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.11.45.67 (talk) 20:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC) 

Ew. Find a more reliable source. Like an official news network maybe? —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  20:22, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Tour is confirmed with new dates added.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/jay-z-and-kanye-reroute-watch-the-throne-tour-20110802
http://promo.livenation.com/watchthethrone/ —ChelseaFanJT26[ TALK ]  —Preceding undated comment added 09:27, 5 August 2011 (UTC). 

 Done Thank you. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  13:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

"recorded in various places in November 2011."
First of all it was NOT recorded in November 2011, second of all is that sentence even necessary when there's a whole section on recording? Sammoocow (talk) 22:02, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

A lead is the first section of the article which summarizes the rest of the page, it isn't extra info. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  22:06, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Per proper grammar, the "the" in the title should be in lowercase, but since they call themselves "The Throne", the title seems to be inferring to watch them, so should it not be "Watch The Throne"? ℥nding·start 05:15, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm getting the feeling "The Throne" is an unofficial act name, as their respective labels {Roc Nation, Def Jam) do not list the group as an official duo. Also, though alone this isn't proof, iTunes does not capitalize the. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  23:36, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I know this is OR, but "Who gon stop" contains a sample of Flux Pavilion's "I can't stop." Is this not credited? -- Erroneuz1 (talk) 23:08, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

You're right, it is original research and I think you understand WIkipedia's policy on verifiability as well. As I do not plan on purchasing the full LP and Allmusic hasn't published the credits yet, I can't check if this is credited or not. It's better to leave as it is than provide unsourced and unverifiable information. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  23:31, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

The sample used in "Murder to Excellence" is from a Romanian traditional song called "Fetele de la Capalna" (The Girls from Capalna). I think it should be credited and not some other song that uses the same sample.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ThaVic (talk • contribs) 22:51, 9 August 2011 (UTC) 

I am to understand that the collaboration of Jay-Z and Kanye West is known as "The Throne." Why is this not credited on the page? David  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.130.37.13 (talk) 02:07, 10 August 2011 (UTC) 

Don't forget to log in when giving new messages. And no, they aren't known by that name per iTunes, Def Jam, Roc Nation, amongst others. They have said things about the name, but that was proved false and until there is any official confirmation that "The Throne" will be an official act, it is staying as is. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  02:19, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Might want to tell this to the editors over at The Throne -- Erroneuz1 (talk) 23:39, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Almost all the reviews we reference credit the album to Jay-Z and Kanye West, not to The Throne. The only review I can see that credits it to The Throne is Entertainment Weekly; the NYT review also mentions The Thone as an "also known as." We should go with the weight of reliable sources, and I think at the moment that means crediting it to Jay-Z and Kanye West, not The Throne.VoluntarySlave (talk) 06:38, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I can't help but think that we should redirect The Throne to Watch the Throne. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  07:05, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Agreed, and I've proposed on The Throne that anything from that page that we want to keep be merged here.VoluntarySlave (talk) 05:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
There is nothing to merge from that page. It's just a summary of everything here and just some information on the solo work the two did (irrelevant to the album). A simple redirect is all that's required and maybe a "'The Throne' redirects here. For other uses, see Throne (disambiguation)." —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  13:41, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
I went ahead and redirected The Throne to this page since no one is objecting.  Perhaps, The Throne should redirect to a disambiguation page?--RDavi404 (talk) 22:21, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Then again, maybe disambiguation isn't necessary if the duo don't actually call themselves "The Throne."--RDavi404 (talk) 22:22, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

dunno if this is notable but it topped the itunes chart in 23 countries
http://lifeandtimes.com/happy-throne-day  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.56.168.191 (talk) 17:48, 11 August 2011 (UTC) 

Per WP:BADCHART, iTunes is not considered a music chart. Sorry. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  18:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Please stop Per WP:ALBUM, albums are categorized by the credited artist. If this album is credited as being by "The Throne", then it belongs in Category:The Throne albums, rather than Category:Kanye West albums and Category:Jay-Z albums individually (note that the former is a subcategory of the latter two.) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:01, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

But it's not credited as The Throne. That was confirmed wrong. See the discussion above. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  20:02, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
Okay Until such time as The Throne and this article are merged, then it's best to leave them be. If consensus is to merge them, then that category would be deleted per {{db-album}} as there would be no article on "The Throne", but simply this collaboration. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:05, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

All Music Guide has reviewed the album as 3.5/5 stars. Link.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.142.227.77 (talk) 07:45, 13 August 2011 (UTC) 

All the page shows is a rating. Once the review shows, it will be a legitimate addition. Dan56 (talk) 09:52, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

If all Jay-Z and Kanye collaborations are not listed, perhaps a link to a complete list?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by THX.5280 (talk • contribs) 19:13, 13 August 2011 (UTC) 

That may be undue weight or fancruft, as it will only be of importance/notability to enthusiasts or fans of Jay-Z or Kanye West. Dan56 (talk) 19:25, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi, it wont let me add this chart position: the album entered the UK charts at number 3 on 14 August 2011. Thanks  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.191.43 (talk) 16:51, 14 August 2011 (UTC) 

Not done. Please provide reliable sources, thanks. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  16:55, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

1st week digital scales are 290,000 which is the highest ever 
Šôûrčê: http://www.hiphopdx.com/m/index.php?s=news&id=16443  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.180.222.165 (talk) 09:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC) 

Digital, along with physical sales, are included by Billboard/Nielsen SoundScan's count, so anything about first-week sales should be their weekly report. Dan56 (talk) 09:30, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Jay-Z and Kanye West first worked together on The Dynasty: Roc la Familia in 2000.  The article states they first worked together on The Blueprint in 2001.  Kanye West produced the song "This Can't Be Life."
Tjondo (talk) 17:41, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

The Background paragraph needs to be corrected... This Can't Be Life was on Jay's The Dynasty: Roc La Familia album, not The Blueprint.
Lakarab (talk) 00:56, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

 Done Jnorton7558 (talk) 13:42, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

The article is great overall, but the line in the introduction's opening paragraph, "It has produced two singles, "H•A•M" and "Otis", both of which attained Billboard chart success" in particular needs to be updated. lol Bruce Campbell (talk) 17:22, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

That's not a single. The source is wrong, Did you heard it on the radio? 2pac Is Alive (talk) 12:16, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 Not done Dan56 (talk) 17:35, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

2pac Is Alive, how do you know the source is wrong? Do not imply that you are right and sources are wrong. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  22:12, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
As a matter of fact, I heard "Lift Off" on the radio, 98.7 Kiss FM New York. P.S. 2Pac is in fact dead. Dan56 (talk) 22:27, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I heard it somewhere to. Let's wait for a response and unprotect this page. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  22:37, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, this supposed release has always intrigued me. I posted several times on the song's page but i was ignored. It is a very sad truth that Wikipedia gives venerability preference to the truth (which cannot be always verified online). Nevertheless, we have to abide by rules. Sincerely i am confused. Why does R&R not list this release? It is the only release by Jay-Z not be listed there. This may be my opinion bu i think i need to write it down... I believe Allaccess is only reliable to source songs being sent to Pop, HAC and company excluding Urban, Urban AC and Rhythmic. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:39, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I can say it too, but I bet you didn't hear it on any official radio station. And "2pac Is Alive" is my name, you don't need to tell me about 2Pac. 2pac Is Alive (talk) 12:03, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
We go by sources, not what one editor believes. You have yet to post a reliable source that proves you correct Tupac. —WP:PENGUIN · [ TALK ]  19:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think there are sources that says if songs are singles for every song, do you agree? And you have only one source that says "Lift Off" *will be released as a single in the USA*. Show me other sources that says Lift off already released as a single, there are none. 2pac Is Alive (talk) 20:22, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
You're not somebody that needs to be convinced, WE need to be convinced. Dan56 (talk) 20:58, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
And you're saying 98.7 Kiss FM ain't an "official radio station"? Dan56 (talk) 20:59, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
I see what Dan56 is saying. Technically, it can be considered a radio single, as it has indeed been played on the radio. - Easy4me (talk) 02:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Since it is is a radio single, leave it listed in the infobox with a small note saying that it is a radio single. QuasyBoy 04:50, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Agree. Dan56 (talk) 06:19, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
So you don't have another source that says "Lift Off" is a single, that's absurd, thank you. Now I see, some of the users here are so ridiculous, or at least Dan56. Like Kanye says, F***ing ridiculous, go ask him if "Lift Off" is a single. And Dan, I don't need to convince you, I guess you have no respect fot others. 2pac Is Alive (talk) 11:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
You have no respect for the process. The burden of getting consensus is on you, the one proposing a controversial change, when no one had before. Dan56 (talk) 19:54, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

This has got to be a "C" or maybe even a "B" class article.  It has PAGES of information.  
Also, it can't be ranked "low" on the importance scale.  It is a bestselling hip hop/rap album.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jawadreventon (talk • contribs) 21:07, 11 January 2012 (UTC) 

It says 'Gotta Have It' samples a flute melody, although it is very clear it is a vocal sample. Also there is a deep humming sound used for the bassline, a vocal humming sound. Could anybody update this info in the 'content' section?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.250.27.28 (talk) 13:59, 9 June 2012 (UTC) 

This review is transcluded from Talk:Watch the Throne/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Calvin999 (talk · contribs) 17:45, 31 July 2012 (UTC)


### Info box
No issues.


### Lead
Link [[Music jouralism|music critics]]
Done Y


### Background
Jay appeared → Jay-Z appeared
on January of 2011, → in January 2011,
Jay stated that the less → Jay-Z stated that the less
that "Life Off" was → Is it mean't to say Life and not Lift?
Link Frank Ocean in the picture.
All done, "Life Off" was a typo Y


### Music and style
Who is that picture of? What does it have to do with the section?
Clarified the use of the visual, changed photo to one that was easier to decipher the meaning of. Y Done?


### Lyrical themes
No issues.


### Content
Singer Ocean and The-Dream → I assume this is Frank Ocean. Also, it should be "singers", plural.
Done Y


### Release and promotion
No issues.


### Singles
January 11 → Can you add the years to all dates please, as it is getting a bit confusing.
Clarified. Y
You don't need to keep saying Billboard Hot 100 apart from the first time. Hot 100 is fine from then on.
Done. Y
peaked at 44. → On the??
Clarified. Y


### Critical response
No issues.


### Commercial performance
Unlink Billboard
Done. Y
This could be expanded more with some European info.
Expanded. Y Correctly?


### Accolades
No issues.


### Track listing
No issues.


### Personnel
Why are Jay and West not listed as writers?
Added. Y


### Charts and certifications
No issues.
A release history table would be good.
Unneeded; as explained in the release section, to avoid leaks, the album was released internationally on the same date onto iTunes.


### References
MTV News should not be italics.
MTV's publisher is Viacom, not MTV Networks.
FN28 has something wrong with the Rolling Stone link.
None of the titles should have capitals words.
FN63 has no date, accessdate etc.
Remove "The" from "The Official Charts Company". They don't use the "the" anymore.
FN138 is missing work, publisher.
All done I believe. Y


### Summary
On hold for 7 days. Aaron • You Da One 17:52, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

I believe I have addressed your concerns. Bruce Campbell (talk) 22:08, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
Passing. Aaron • You Da One 22:19, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Should 'Cruel Summer' be the next album in Kanye West chronology? It's a compilation. I don't know if that's standard. (I'm aware he's the one who made the compilation, and that it's centered around his beats). 
189.135.147.241 (talk) 03:07, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

@Dan56: I'm not arguing about web traffic here, it's about critic consensus. The album got a score of 76, so there's no sense of having a 5-star review (The Telegraph) in there. Same goes for the 2-star review (The Independent). And honestly, I'm not sure about EW because I don't see their reviews ever get posted in those boxes, it's fine if we leave that there if it's seen as reliable though. --Bobtinin (talk) 21:09, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

If you add up all the scores in the template--using Metacritic's normalization of them as being out of 100--then you get an average of ~76: 70 (AllMusic) plus 100 (Daily Telegraph) plus 67 (EW) plus 80 (Guardian) plus 40 (Independent) plus 91 (MSN) plus 85 (Pitchfork) plus 70 (Rolling Stone) plus 60 (Spin) plus 100 (USA Today) equals 763; divided by 10 equals 76.3, equals (=) all the scores from the most prominent news and media outlets are representative of your all-mighty, Metacritic, equals (=) stop pursuing this wrongheaded crusade. Dan56 (talk) 18:33, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
It is irrelevant what you see in your experience at other articles. So please stop bringing this up as a point of contention. But I'm glad you deem it possibly "reliable." Dan56 (talk) 18:33, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
PLEASE, read WP:OTHERCONTENT. Dan56 (talk) 18:36, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

The article (GA status) currently lists "November 2010 – July 2011" as the recording dates of the album. However, "That's My B****" and "The Joy" were included on a demo version of West's My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy that leaked recently. The demo is dated July 9, 2010, indicating that some of West's contributions for WTT were recorded before November. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 15:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:The Joy (Jay-Z and Kanye West song) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 22:44, 2 June 2025 (UTC)