# Talk:Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech

I cleaned this page up, and so removed the clean-up tag.  Friejose 17:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Back in April 2007, Dan Schwartz `88 added the following:

It's really funny, but unless you have a source for that, it's not going into the article. Wikipedia is not a place for something you made up one day. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 21:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
There is a agnes scott version of the song, I don't know the origins or the original lyrics (they have undoubtedly changed over the years) its sort of an inside joke about the amount of women at Tech (virtually none attended until the 70s, and the best place to find a date was at Agnes Scott College, an all girl school). No matter which version you choose its not appropriate or necessary to put on here, especially considering how it has devolved over the years, becoming more vulgar and less in-tune with the music itself. I'm sure you could find an actual reference but it won't be easy, The version my dad told me  went like this:
“There once was a twat from Agnes Scott went out with a guy from Tech
He brought her to the Varsity, and taught her how to neck
He filled her full of whiskey, he filled her full of beer
And now she is the mother of a bastard engineer.”
I don't think it should be included in the article (regardless of source) I'm just letting you know it wasn't his original thought.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iceman87GT (talk • contribs) 01:28, 25 August 2010 (UTC) 
I totally agree that this verse does not belong in the article due to its disparaging nature, although this talk page seems okay.  BTW, the slightly different version that I remember from the early 1970's is:  "I'm a twiddly-twat from Agnes Scott, / And I go with a guy from Tech. / He takes me to the Greasy V, / And he teaches me how to neck. / He teaches me how to drink whiskey, / And he teaches me how to drink beer, / And so now I am the mother of / A bastard engineer."  --Art Smart Chart/Heart 11:06, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
The version I heard in 1974 was less vulgar:

The final verse to "Wrambling Wreck" sung by the girls at drinking parties.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.57.76.147 (talk) 13:49, 18 August 2015 (UTC) 
As a current Agnes Scott student (class of 2019), the version we were taught reads:

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaycurt (talk • contribs) 14:55, 20 May 2016 (UTC) 

I've passed this article as a GA; it's well-referenced, well-written, stable and the images have appropriate tags and source information. My only suggestion would be to expand the lead to two paragraphs (perhaps include notable renditions?). CloudNine 13:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Bah. I hate writing leads. While you're thinking about it, are there any additional changes that would be proposed in a FAC? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 14:15, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Concerning removal of lyrics and the Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Fight songs. And while I agree mostly with the consensus that is reached in this discussion that articles about Fight Songs should not consist solely of lyrics, and especially not include lyrics that are not within the public domain, I disagree about the "consensus" reached on the lyrics.  The "consensus" about not including lyrics in any article imposes additional conditions on a subset of articles that does not exist as an overall policy.  WP:NOT#LYRICSs states: "the article may not consist solely of the lyrics" and never bans including lyrics that are in the public domain.  It risks violating the following principle: "Does the proposed page contradict any existing guidelines or policies? If so, it should not be promoted to guideline or policy status."  Including lyrics is not only convenient to the reader, but seems necessary to grasp a full understanding of the song's meaning and place in the culture of the university.  It is also necessary in the discussion of the development and change of the lyrics over time, such as in the case with the Previous adaptations section of this article.  How can you talk about previous adaptations without first listing the current lyrics?   Since this article has passed GA status with the lyrics included, it seems inappropriate that lyrics should be removed when considering their place in the article as a whole. It appears this discussion on Fight Song lyrics should be reopened. CrazyPaco (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:NOT#LYRICS states "Source texts generally belong on WikiSource. Excerpts of lyrics may be used within an article for the purpose of direct commentary about them."  This article should have a link to WikiSource for the lyrics.  I agree that an excerpt here for context would be a good idea, but not the whole song. NJGW (talk) 20:21, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I have not problem with removing the lyrics to WikiSource, if that is done first so there is clear access to the lyrics for readers, but the article may also need to be written in a way that would direct the reader to that link. Clearly this article has been well reviewed in the past with the inclusion of the lyrics, which would have not achieved GA status if it was in violation of any policy. I think the discussion and consensus on fight song lyrics (which I myself find very dubious) is unfortunate because of articles like this one that clearly benefit from the lyrics being right in the article and does not violate any Wikipedia policy. Not only that, but portions of the song are wikilinked to provide additional information on the context of the specific lyrics.  Nowhere does any wikipedia policy state that lyrics should not be included in an article, full lyrics or not.  The policy is there to prevent wikipedia from becoming something like a lyrics database (e.g. [1]) and to prevent copyright violations.  This is not what is happening with articles such as this one which isn't even close to solely consisting of lyrics . This is also an issue for the Hail to Pitt article that includes discussion of the lyrics as they have changed over time, as well as lyrics to songs or poems that have been painstakingly collected from historical sources to give an overall history of musical pageantry at the school that don't necessarily warrant separate entries into Wikisource.  I do agree that articles should not consist solely of lyrics, as that is official policy, and there are many articles that are problematic that you are going after, but I think you need to slow down to give people time to discuss and improve the individual articles.  There are many editors and even administrators that have worked on the articles you are essentially removing, and tagging the song articles for merge is a better way to go about it and gives them incentive to flush out more information for the article.  IMO, it is less disruptive and better etiquette and there is no need to be in such a hurry to accomplish what you are trying to do. CrazyPaco (talk) 20:57, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
That's a guideline, not a rule. I made a special effort to explain the relevance of particular passages of the lyrics with various sources, especially concerning the evolution of the song. While it doesn't fit as nicely as I would like, the article is incomplete without the lyrics present. Also note (not that anyone is assuming otherwise) that the lyrics are clearly public domain. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 06:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
It would seem WP:SONG#LYRICS also disagrees with the necessity of removing the lyrics, as well as WP:SONG#LYRICS and the WP:FA review of articles such as Dixie. Lyrics should be restored immediately. CrazyPaco (talk) 05:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I have (what appears to be again) restored the lyrics to the article, as from reading the ANI discussion, it is apparent that the "consensus" reached by the centralized discussion was not a true community consensus, nor was it informed by a core of individuals who work on the majority of content in these sort of articles, and the applicability and/or necessity of that decision is under review. Until then, I am inclined to let the broader, original guidelines prevail and maintain the status quo of the article. LaMenta3 (talk) 17:55, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Moving this unsourced content to the talk page until a source is found. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 18:29, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Another verse sung at School of Practical Science (S.P.S. or "Skule") at the University of Toronto in the 1940s:

When first I to Georgia came, I thought i knew it all.
But now that I've been here a while, my pride has had a fall.
I find I'll have to study for many a weary year,
Before I am a graduate, a mechanical engineer.

During World War II the US Navy Underwater Demolition Teams (UDTs) used "Rambling Wreck" as their unofficial anthem because some of the founding cadre were from Georgia Tech.  
Some of the cleaner lyrics go:

"I'm a rambling wreck from Georgia Tech and a CB Engineer
Rated, Berated and ultimately fated to perpetually volunteer.
We form a select fraternity that likes to smoke and drink and cuss
And we don't give a damn for any man who don't give a damn for us.

Oh! If I ever have a son, sir, if he's bright and bold,
I'll send him up to Annapolis to wear the Navy White and Gold.
But if I have a daughter, sir, I'll tell you what she'll do--
She will call out, 'Hello, sailor,!' like her mother has to do.

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.
Starting GA reassessment as part of the GA Sweeps process. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)


### Checking against GA criteria
GA review (see here for criteria)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS): 

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
Two citation needed tags are outstanding from July 2009  Done
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 

It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 

Overall:
Pass/Fail: 
Just 2 citation needed tags need addressing. On hold for seven days, major contributors and projects will be notified. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:49, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Looked for sources and couldn't find them, so removed the statements. Technically this fixes the issue. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:52, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, that is good enough for me, keep GA status. Jezhotwells (talk) 04:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Sorry that I wasn't able to take care of this earlier. It looks like Wizardman did what I would have done, given that we can't find sources for those things. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 17:30, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The link verifying the chants at the end of the song no longer works, I believe that The Technique changed its archive address, as I've found that many of the links I have come across for the paper lead to nothing, both on wikipedia and on various blogs that talk about or reference the paper.
I also would like to state that prior to the use of the chant "Fight! Win! Drink! Get Naked!" at the end of the song, the chant was first "Go! Fight! Win!", which eventually was shortened to "Fight! Win!" following the third "Go Jackets!". 
I don't know why it was shortened, or when the shift happened, I just know that when I first learned the song there were three distinct parts to the chant at the end: "Go! Fight! Win!". The Band did release an album during the 1998 season (recorded earlier the same year) and for their recording of the Ramblin' Wreck from Georgia Tech, they included the "Fight! Win!" version (ommitting the "Go!"). In conversing with older graduates/fans many have confirmed the use of GO!.
I understand if you choose to not mention the 3-part chant as it would be based off of the word of one person ( I will be on the look-out for a source confirming this).
Regardless the wording needs to be changed for this part of the article, for as it reads now it states that "Go Jackets!" is repeated three times and followed by "Go Jackets! Fight! Win!",in other words the article says "Go Jackets!" was chanted four times, prior to the student body's introduction of "Fight! Win! Drink! Get Naked!" (which makes it seem like they only say "Go Jackets!" three times). It is important to note that not everyone chants the "Drink! Get Naked!" part at the end, most finish with "Win!" while the student body and others (its mainly recited by the younger crowd, but I have noticed that, when things are going well on the field the older fans will join in) add in the "Drink! Get Naked!". I suggest saying the Student section eventually added "Drink! Get Naked!" to the "Fight! Win!". And removing the "Go Jackets!" from the "Go Jackets! Fight! Win!" to prevent it from sounding like it is said 4 times at the end.
And finally, the "Bust their ass!" response to "Go Jackets!" is relatively new as well, it was started by the student section as well, I remember first hearing it shouted around 2004 or 2005, it may have started a few years prior to then but it was definitely not in use during the 90s. It should be noted in the article that it has not always been apart of the "Go Jackets!" chant following the song.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iceman87GT (talk • contribs) 02:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC) 

"Defense! Bust their ass!" was definitely in use 1978-1983. 2600:1700:C1A0:1DF0:6891:931A:89C7:2DA (talk) 03:58, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

"Ramblin' Wreck," which first surfaced at Georgia Tech in the 1890s, borrows the tune of "Son of a Gambolier," an anonymous song that had been popular since the 1870s. Someone apparently tried to use Google to identify the composer, and came across the listing in James B. Sinclair’s A Descriptive Catalogue of the Music of Charles Ives in the Yale Finding Aid Database. But if you read the catalogue carefully, it turns out that Ives's compositions (there are two—a march, which is cited in Wikipedia, and also a song called “Son of a Gambolier,” which has a more informative catalogue entry) are borrowings or arrangements of that same old popular song, which had been published in Yale songbooks as early as 1873, the year before Ives was born. Moreover, the Ives pieces, which were composed in the 1890s, were not published until much later, so it's unlikely that anyone in Georgia would have had the opportunity to hear them. Tjr36 (talk) 20:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Another point of interest is that the beginning of the article states that it's based off of the work of Ives in 1895, but states that there was an adaption of the song created in 1850's. 128.61.44.51 (talk) 12:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
The song existed long before Ives' rendition of it. You have to separate the lyrics from the musical score when you consider the history. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 23:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
The person who created this comment ("'Ramblin' Wreck' is not by Charles Ives") removed the references to Ives in the article, but someone else later restored them, claiming that Ives's song was published in 1896 (which would allow plenty of time for it to make its way to Georgia). But while Ives composed (or arranged) his song in the 1890s, he didn't publish it until 1922, when it appeared in his self-published collection entitled 114 Songs.  Ives lived in Connecticut (and later New York), and I'm not aware of him having any ties to Georgia. I suppose it's theoretically possible that someone could have heard his song in Connecticut and brought a manuscript copy of it to Georgia, or simply memorized it in Connecticut and then sung it in Georgia, but I haven't seen any evidence to support that idea. Does anyone have any? The tune was very well known, but Ives's version of it was extremely obscure. I don't understand what leads people to believe that his version is what was used at Georgia Tech. I'm skeptical, but I would love it if somebody could prove me wrong!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.132.179.165 (talk) 21:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC) 

When I wrote the article (hi!) I based it off of the school's official account (see the article refs): "In 1910, Michael A. Greenblatt, Tech's first bandmaster, discovered the band playing "Ramblin' Wreck" to the tune of "Sons of the Gamboliers," and made his first arrangement of the song in the form of a handwritten manuscript." I realize that could be incorrect; however, I don't think there's enough evidence one way or another to really prove the song's origins beyond what Georgia Tech claims. Disavian (talk) 06:22, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Okay, I just pulled out my copy of The Story of Georgia Tech published in 1948 by Marion L. Brittain. If anyone knows, he would, right? Well here's the quote on page 257:

I don't know, that sounds pretty definitive to me. Bonus: that Bidez is Robert L. Bidez. Disavian (talk) 06:29, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

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