# Talk:Sean B. Carroll

Just letting anyone following this article know that I'm about to work a bit on the page. I'll expand it some and do a full rewrite of it on my sandbox. I will take my time on this. If anyone has any sources or suggestions, please let me know. VdSV9•♫ 19:34, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

I've just done a major update on the page, added a bunch of sources, rewrote major parts, removed some dead links and the such. I noticed someone recently added info about Carroll graduating "phi beta kappa", I didn't use this because (a) I don't think it should be here, and (b) the reference was a Tumblr page. I mean, Tumblr, rlly? Any fixes or suggestions are welcome. VdSV9•♫ 18:53, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

His name is Sean B. Carroll but what name is B is is not given. It would be better if someone improve it. --81.213.215.83 (talk) 04:06, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest. We're certainly not required to know that sort of thing if people haven't chosen to make it readily available. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:14, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sean B. Carroll/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Wretchskull (talk · contribs) 20:40, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
Trying to get eliminate more old GANs from the biology section. I'll have a look at this tomorrow. Wretchskull (talk) 20:40, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks as always. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:44, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
@Chiswick Chap: Sorry for the delay!

No worries!
Lede
Eliminate refs from lede.
Done.
You can expand the lede with concise info about his awards.
Done.
Career
I feel like this section is a little to list-y and monotonous; prose form is preferred. If it isn't possible, just ignore this.
Done a bit of reorganising, with a new Awards section.
"Carroll's team has shown, in a series of papers, how the activation of genes during the embryonic stages of the Drosophila fruit fly control the development of its wings, and has been searching for the butterfly's counterparts of these genes." this sentence is unclear.
Edited.
"The Day the Mesozoic Died" has a third-party link in the middle of prose. It does not have its own WP article, so maybe put it in external links?
Removed the link.
Selected works
The ISBNs are inconsistent. Either change all to hyphenated 10-digits or hyphenated 13-digits. You can use the ISBN tool.
Done.
Reception
Second paragraph is a little unclear.
Edited.
References
Please add the year of publication to all refs if possible, such as The New York Times refs, where the exact date is shown.
Added.
Spotchecks: references are WP:RS and support all text.
Noted.
You may optionally add "|url-access=subscription" to sub-based refs.
Noted.
General
Lede image is properly formatted, article is well-summarized, neutral, and stable.
Thanks.
The article uses mdy dates, but is inconsistent, with ymd dates appearing across the article.
Fixed.
No copyvio found, however, the article is rather closely paraphrased with this ref - try to alter sentences here and there if possible.
Edited.
Ping me when you have addressed my comments. Wretchskull (talk) 19:21, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Wretchskull - all done to date. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:25, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
@Chiswick Chap: This article has been promoted to GA status. Wretchskull (talk) 20:32, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

 
I work as a paid consultant for WhiteHatWIki, which was hired by Howard Hughes Medical Institute, where the subject of this article works.  This article is a well done GA, but it’s missing important content. For the past several years, Sean Carroll’s been more active in his role as the head of a major TV and film studio than any other aspect of his career. I’ve suggested additions below to document his film and TV work. Thank you. 

Reason: Carroll’s extensive work as an executive producer, including many receiving major honors, has received significant coverage in multiple high quality sources. I’ve structured the credits in a table, following the example of GAs about filmmakers such as Roberto Orci and Dan Gilroy. W12SW77 (talk) 21:00, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


### Reply 13-SEP-2023
Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request. 

Furthermore, the table that is proposed to be placed needs to have the approporaite Wikilinks added. Each film which is listed needs to be independently notable, and each award whcih is listed under the Note column needs to have the exact award wikilinked. Regards,  Spintendo  22:13, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


### Clarifications 6-OCT-2023
@Spintendo: Thanks very much for your review. I’ve provided clarification and addressed the issues you raised.

Many thanks for your time spent on the review. W12SW77 (talk) 19:39, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


### Reply 8-OCT-2023
  Edit request partially implemented   

Y The photo was updated.
Y The claim statement "In 2012, Carroll founded HHMI Tangled Bank Studios" was added to the article.
Y The claim regarding The Farthest was added to the article.
Y The claim regarding All That Breathes was added to the article; however, the text "and the Sundance Film Festival" was not included because the Wikilink for the Sundance Festival's Best Documentary Award was not included with the request.
Y The filmography table was added. Films which were not independently notable were not included. Additionally, the "note" information under All That Breathes was not included because not all of the Wikilinks were provided with the information displayed there. The previous edit request review stated that these Wikilinks needed to be included in the table in order for it to be approved and implemented.
N The claim regarding Race for the Vaccine was not added because the film is not independently notable.
N The claim "head of studio" was not added because while the provided source may have given that label, the suggested prose did not explain for readers of the Wikipedia article what that role's title means. While Wikilinks for other company executive/leader-type titles such as President (corporate title) and Chief executive officer exist in Wikipedia, there is currently no article for "head of studio". The corporate titles bestowed upon individuals in Wikipedia articles need to have Wikilinks in order to contextualize the information for readers.
Additional changes made:
Ng Awards listed under the Awards section which were not independently notable were deleted.
Regards,  Spintendo  20:31, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Spintendo: Thanks very much for your response and for implementing some of the requested edits. I’ve used some clarifications below regarding other requests.
1. “The claim "head of studio" was not added because while the provided source may have given that label, the suggested prose did not explain for readers of the Wikipedia article what that role's title means. While Wikilinks for other company executive/leader-type titles such as President (corporate title) and Chief executive officer exist in Wikipedia, there is currently no article for "head of studio". The corporate titles bestowed upon individuals in Wikipedia articles need to have Wikilinks in order to contextualize the information for readers.”

I see your point and as a way forward, I suggest  focusing on the substance of his job, as verified by the press, rather than the exact title. Here’s my suggestion for the first two sentences of the lead paragraph:
Sean B. Carroll (born September 17, 1960) is an American evolutionary developmental biologist, author, educator and an executive producer who runs HHMI Tangled Bank Studios.
Multiple reliable secondary sources support that he runs the studio, like this NBC News story about the Academy Award nomination for “All that Breathes”:
Professor Up for Best Documentary Academy Award
By Aimee Cho
“NBC Washington” (2 March 2023)

 Biology professor Sean B. Carroll also runs the film studio at Howard Hughes Medical Institute, HHMI Tangled Bank Studios. He oversaw the production of “All That Breathes.”
Another story about Carroll and his leadership of HHMI Tangled Bank Studios includes this:
Tangled Bank Studios’ Sean B. Carroll on prepping “Wild Hope” for APT, PBS
By Barry Walsh
“Realscreen” (30 May 2023)

 As a developmental biologist, Sean B. Carroll has immersed himself in the stuff of life — the molecular building blocks that make us what we are, and create our surroundings.
As the head of HHMI Tangled Bank Studios — the film and television content production arm of the Maryland-headquartered Howard Hughes Medical Institute — Carroll is dedicated to sharing that knowledge, and his enthusiasm about science and nature, with audiences.
Here is another article that makes it clear that he’s running the studio.
Tangled Bank Studios’ Sean Carroll talks new vaccine doc, taking on denialism
By Barry Walsh
“Realscreen” (10 December 2020)

 But what concerns some of them, including Sean Carroll, head of the studio department for HHMI Tangled Bank Studios…
Carroll does not come at science documentary strictly as a producer. In addition to his studio role at the nonprofit filmmaking arm of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI), he also serves as vice president for science education for the organization…
And although I do not cite this in the article, this is an excerpt from Carroll’s bio on HHMI Tangled Bank’s website that makes his role very clear. It serves to reinforce the information from the reliable secondary sources above.
 As Head of Studio, Sean B. Carroll directs HHMI Tangled Bank Studios’ mission, strategy, and editorial focus, and oversees both the documentary and dramatic film slates.
An internationally recognized scientist, award-winning author, and Emmy-winning executive producer, Carroll is the architect of HHMI’s filmmaking initiative to bring great stories about science and scientists to broad audiences. He has served as executive producer on a wide variety of feature documentaries, IMAX, and short films.
2. Additionally, In my original proposal, I suggested adding a sentence to the lead about Carroll’s work with award-winning documentaries. The proposed sentence wasn’t implemented or addressed in your response. Given his prominence as a producer is now well established in the body of the article, including the table, I think it’s now clearer that highlights of his film work should be included in the lead. I suggest adding a sentence to become the new second sentence of the lead paragraph.
Awards-winning films he has produced include Emmy-winning The Farthest and The Serengeti Rules, as well as the Oscar-nominated All That Breathes.
Finally, I noticed that you removed some comment that was part of the page when it was granted Good Article status by User:Wretchskull on 6 December 2021 after being nominated by User: Chiswick Chap. Here’s the [dif| https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_B._Carroll&oldid=1058999955] for that. I had nothing to do with this nomination and review but I do know that it means there was considerable scrutiny to this content as part of the process.
Many thanks for your time spent on the review. W12SW77 (talk) 14:37, 20 October 2023 (UTC)


### Reply 31-OCT-2023
With regards to the issue of and an executive producer who runs HHMI Tangled Bank Studios I'm afraid that this description is not very informative, as I stated earlier, there is no Wikipedia page for the description of someone who "runs a company" (which is not an official description). That is more of a euphemism for other, more established labels like president, CEO, etc.
With regards to your lead section proposed additions, they contains citations, which are not usually placed in the lead section. Items placed in the lead section should be found elsewhere in the article with their references. My suggestion for adding this text would be to give a description of where in the article the text and reference(s) exist that would verify the information that you'd like to place into the lead. An example:

The table above shows the text you'd like to add to the lead section placed next to the passage of text in the already-existing article, along with the verifying reference. That way, it's clear that the text added to the lead section without citation tags is already handled elsewhere in the article, and thus, can be easily implemented by myself or another reviewing editor.
With regards to the text I supposedly removed, the link you've provided was not instructive. Please use {{diff}} instead, and advise. Thank you!
Regards,  Spintendo  02:38, 1 November 2023 (UTC)


### Reply 1 DEC 2023
@Spintendo: I appreciate your continued feedback on edits to this page.
1.Here is the table you requested.

2. Here is the diff where you removed content from the article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sean_B._Carroll&diff=prev&oldid=1179234469

Again, this content was in the article the day it became a Good Article. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sean_B._Carroll&diff=prev&oldid=1059003925. These are major awards in his field.   I would request you add this back into the Awards section as the first three sentences in the Awards section. 
Many thanks for your time spent on the review. W12SW77 (talk) 17:33, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


### Reply 1-DEC-2023
  Edit request partially implemented   

Y The claim concerning the award winning films was added to the lead section. Thank you for providing that information.
N The claim concerning the non-notable awards was not added. By their very nature, awards can be subjective, in that they represent a very specific point of view: that of the individual or organization which determines who wins the award and why. To counter this, a good practice is to limit the listing of awards to only those which are independently notable in Wikipedia. What the reviewer is asking for here is not due to WP:N (which is not a content requirement). The request for notability in this case is to ensure WP:NPOV. The adding of several points of view to an article in the form of listings of awards can skew the article's balance. Thus, this reviewer's own practice is to limit the listing of awards to those which are independently notable in Wikipedia. There is also WP:NOTDIRECTORY, which states the following under No.6: Neither articles nor their associated talk pages are for conducting the business of the topic of the article. Listings to be avoided include, but are not limited to: business alliances, clients, competitors, employees (except CEOs, supervisory directors and similar top functionaries), equipment, estates, offices, store locations, contact information, patent filings, products and services, sponsors, subdivisions and tourist attractions. Where it says "but not limited to", I take this to include the listing of awards as well, even to awards received by an individual in the scope of their work. That section goes on to state what to do when an attempt is made to include that information in the article, and while this particular wording speaks to pricing, I think it applies well to awards: An article should not include product pricing or availability information (which can vary widely with time and location) unless there is an independent source and encyclopedic significance for the mention, which may be indicated by mainstream media sources or books (not just product reviews) providing commentary on these details instead of just passing mention.
I understand that there are other editors who take a more liberal view on awards being mentioned, but I believe all editors have some breaking point where they may feel reluctant to add additional awards that an individual has received. My breaking point is very conservative. To add this information about the Shaw Scientist award, please provide the Wikilink. You are free to seek additional editors views in order to add the information, and I will accept consensus if this is to add the information. Thank you!

Regards,  Spintendo  00:30, 2 December 2023 (UTC)