# Talk:Philadelphia nativist riots

"Rioters burned down St. Michael's Catholic Church and rectory, at 2nd and Jefferson Streets, the Seminary of the Sisters of Charity, and several homes before soldiers arrived and the fire was contained." If memory serves me, my (non-Irish) father told me that some 20 nuns were murdered during these race riots. Or was that another event? Corrections, anyone? Shir-El too 15:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's a tough one. First off, of course, your father's recollection would obviously have to have been what he had heard or read, source unknown.
More problematic, though, are two other points: for much of the 19th century, the city was experiencing riots on a fairly regular basis. Lombard Street Riot (1842, whites attacking blacks); Pennsylvania Hall (1838, whites attacking abolitionists); and a number of others I haven't added yet. So was it this riot? I don't know.
Next is the question of records. Those in power kept the records. Others tried to maintain records, but their records often disappeared. Both used somewhat dubious sources. Both tried to paint their sides as the good guys. So, official sources likely understated deaths/injuries/property damage to blacks, Irish, Catholics, etc. while somewhat exagerating the innocence of (and injury to) everyone else. Black/Irish and/or Catholic sources, of course, went the other way.
Do some digging and see what you find!
Mdsummermsw (talk) 20:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
The main sources I used did not mention any specific numbers of deaths from the May riot, or who died, not even if they were Catholics or Protestants. Its possible that the information was lost or never properly recorded. Medvedenko (talk) 02:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Or was written-out, the way CNN reports "news". Thank you anyway. My father probably learned about it in his Political Science course at UC Berkeley in the late 1940's-early 1950's. I also remember seeing a written reference to it, possibly in an article; I do remember the source was reputable and non-partisan. Cheers, Shir-El too 00:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
All this talk has renewed my interest in the subject. I've done some more digging and I finally found a death toll for the May riots. According to the The Irish in Philadelphia: Ten Generations of Urban Experience a total of 16 people died. According to 1910 book, A History of the People of the United States: From the Revolution to the Civil War (which is clearly biased on the side of the Nativists) 8 nativists died and does not mention Catholic deaths. I'm adding the sixteen death toll now and other found information soon. Medvedenko (talk) 03:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

It is worth noting that the argument about German Catholics not being attacked is flawed, the main article espousing the view mentions multiple churches, while only one was in the actual path, and, it is important to note, it was still under construction at the time of the riot so burning it would have had little symbolic value.  Therefore, while it may be true that the riots were more anti-Irish than anti-Catholic, the argument of the church not being burned falls apart when examined more in depth, just figured it was worth noting.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.84.80.104 (talk) 18:12, 11 February 2009 (UTC) 

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