# Talk:The Oval (Belfast)

I've edited it down somewhat but 10,000 still seems too high. This [1] suggests it is a bit lower. Fionnsci (talk) 20:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Oval (Belfast)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Cloudz679 (talk · contribs) 06:28, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I will review this article. C679 06:28, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Four external links are reported as not working: fn20, and the first 3 of the 4 external links.
The lead is quite strange. What is the "original Oval"? Why introduce bias regarding the timings of reconstruction work? What does "few major alterations" mean (seems to be a conflicting statement).
Glentoran should be linked with its first mention in the article body.
"first Oval in Dee Street (between Mersey and Chelsea Streets)" is this the same as the "original Oval" mentioned in the lead? Why is Dee Street's location specified? Why is it in parentheses?
"the pitch was rotated by ninety degrees" ref
what is a stirrup pump? We don't seem to have an article on it and it is not mentioned at pump. The term "stirrup pump" doesn't appear in the supporting reference.
is "cratering" a real verb?
"Grosvenor Park was used as a temporary home for Glentoran (while The Oval was rebuilt with the help of fellow Belfast clubs Cliftonville and Distillery) until August 1949." Unusual use of parentheses again
"In 1953 the current stands were built, and in 2000 The Oval had a new 1,600-person-capacity stand constructed." This is a direct contradiction. Words like "current" should be used with care.
"broke down a gate in The Oval" this seems quite POV and is not an accurate reflection of the BBC article used as a citation. Also the sentence only mentions one side of this but the BBC article specifically mentions the groups of fans throwing missiles "at each other".
" a bomb found outside The Oval was defused by an army bomb disposal unit" very strangely worded focusing on the result and not the discovery of the bomb itself. reword.
"a Portadown fan threw fireworks onto the pitch (injuring Glentoran's assistant manager Pete Batey and goalkeeping coach Davy McClelland)." irregular use of parentheses once more
"In 2008, The Oval was the site of a protest by the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster against a decision by the Irish Football Association to allow football matches to be played on Sundays (a first in Northern Ireland)." If it's a first, it deserves a proper mention, not to be hidden away in parentheses. Also the whole sentence should be reworded with improved grammar
This paragraph contains political and football material. There doesn't seem to be any connection or justification, so keep these things separate.
"Glentoran unveiled plans to move the club to a new stadium in the Titanic Quarter of Belfast." needs ref
"Although the majority of local fans wish to move to the Hollywood Road area where there is rumors of a major sports facility being built." Not a valid sentence
"The Oval was sold to developers" what is the context of developers? A wikilink could help here.
"since then, there has been little discussion on what will happen to The Oval when Glentoran move out." this adds nothing to the content
"it has been suggested by Glentoran's chairman that " - Glentoran's chairman suggested that…
The Jesus sign doesn't seem to warrant its own section, unless there's some additional significance which has not been explained
"It is considered by some football fans to be a historic ground because of its concrete terraces and steel fencing." WP:WEASEL
"This limits its capacity in UEFA-sanctioned matches to the 3,000 seats in the two main stands (terracing is not permitted in UEFA matches).[19]" the ref is from a single match in 2005, is there a more recent or more general source available?
"The stadium holds 26,556, but is currently restricted to 5,056 under safety legislation.[20]" link is down and the sentence doens't seem to be very good
"The main stand holds 2,720 and the Railway stand holds 2,070, and the Oval has accommodated 55,000 attendees for a European Cup match against Rangers." seems to be more suited to two separate sentences
"Since 2011, the safe capacity permitted by Health and Safety authorities is 5,300; before 2011 the stadium could hold up to 8,000. " ref, has been not is, information here contradicts information in preceding sentences.
"In the 21st century, the Oval has been dilapidated and requires constant repairs to fulfill Heath and Safety requirements for Glentoran to host its home matches there." has required
" 2009, Glentoran's Irish Cup match against Limavady United was abandoned after the stadium's floodlight pylons started shaking in the high winds and the referee deemed it too dangerous for the match to continue." why is this in "location and design" and not in "history"? There seems to be a somewhat confused structure to this article in its current state.
"In previous years, the Oval was used to host the final of the Irish Cup." is this because the club reached the final and it was played at one club's home venue? +ref
"During the 1985 Irish Cup final, Glentoran supporters released a cockerel and a pig that had been painted blue onto the pitch to antagonize Linfield supporters." no indication it was at The Oval or that the animals went on the pitch - also what makes The Mirror a reliable source?
"The Oval has been used to host the final of the County Antrim Shield.[26] " if it was only once, why not include the year
Is the Belfast City Cup notable enough to have its own article? If not it may not warrant a mention at this article.
Unclear rationale for having a separate "finals" section


#### General comments
The structure is very confusing with overlapping material between sections.
Restructuring the history section with subheadings may help article navigation.
Some sentences directly contradict each other.
Grammar needs to be improved.
All off-Wiki links need to be working.
On hold for seven days in order that improvements may be made. C679 20:09, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm working my way through the list but regarding your question on the Mirror, RSN says it's fine as a reliable source.  The C of E   God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:30, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
I have fixed the above.  The C of E   God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:46, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
EL to Glentoran is directing to "the wrong page".
Why is there EL to Google maps? coordinates at the top of the page serve this purpose. WP:ELNO seems to cover this in the first point.
Lead does not fulfil WP:LEAD. Original comments above regarding "few major alterations" and time distortion have not been addressed. A reader would be served well being informed when the last reconstruction was, in plain language. The Irish Cup may have been hosted, but why single this out when according to the article other finals have taken place here too? Also, for instance, "the original Oval" does not seem to be important to this Oval, so what is it doing in the lead?
History section is improved but seems to jump around, an event from 2000 is in the second paragraph then the next one jumps back to 1995. then 2005-2011, then 2008-2010, then 2009, 2012 and 2003 together. If something is linking these sentences together that is not year, subheadings may be appropriate, otherwise the information should be listed chronologically. C679 16:37, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
I have tried to fix these issues. The only thing is that I'm not too good with leads, nevertheless I have tried to expand the lead to cover the requirements.  The C of E   God Save the Queen! (talk) 14:01, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Referencing things:
"From 1882 to 1886, Glentoran used Ormeau Park as their home ground. They moved to Westbourne in Ballymacarrett for six years until 1892, then moving to an unrelated ground also called The Oval. The Oval was built in its current location in 1903."  +ref
"In 1941 the Oval was bombed, destroying both grandstands and cratered the pitch." – I still don't like "cratered", I don't think it's a word, and the BBC source even uses crated which is certainly inaccurate. Perhaps "leaving a crater on the pitch"  would be a good change here.
"Grosvenor Park was used as a temporary home for Glentoran, while The Oval was rebuilt with the help of fellow Belfast clubs Cliftonville and Distillery, until August 1949. In 1953 new stands were built.[5]" – the reference doesn't support any of this information
"This became known as the "Jesus sign", and was intended to remain for two years." +ref
"In 2000 The Oval had a new 1,600-person-capacity stand constructed." The ref says the funding was approved in September 2000, did they construct it in the same year?
"Three people were charged with rioting.[8]" – ref title is "Two charged over football rioting"
"draw congregations away from church" – reword for copyright reasons
"Although some Glentoran fans expressed a wish to move to the Hollywood Road area as there were rumours of a major sports facility being built there.[17]" – not supported by reference
"The Oval is located near the Port of Belfast, and Harland and Wolff's Samson and Goliath cranes are visible from inside the stadium. It is viewed as a historic ground by football fans because of its concrete terraces and steel fencing. This limits its capacity in UEFA-sanctioned matches to the 3,000 seats in the two main stands (terracing is not permitted in UEFA matches).[21][22]" – improve inline citations. fn21 seems to support the first sentence here. "It is viewed as a historic ground by football fans" seems to be an unattributed statement. fn22 seems to say UEFA banned standing in 1998, so why not reflect that in the sentence?
"before 2010 the stadium could hold up to 8,000." the source says 8,000 came, which is attendance and not capacity, which has been stated as being much higher.
"The Oval's record attendance is 55,000 for a European Cup match against Rangers.[25]" – it would be useful to have the date and competition for this match
MLA should appear in its full form for the first mention (this comment actually belongs in the first part of the review)
Finally, Belfast blitz is mentioned by name in the lead but not in the main part of the article. Please add it there.
C679 06:46, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Done all those.  The C of E   God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:59, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
How unrelated is the "original oval"? In the article it says it was on Dee Street. According to Google Maps, Dee Street is approximately 80 metres from the modern-day stadium. The reference you provided also mentions that "1903 - to present The Oval. The pitch was rotated to 90 degrees and is the present day Oval" – suggesting that the "original Oval" was actually more-or-less at the same location. This is reinforced in the next line at the linked article "The Oval has been home to Glentoran since 1892". Other comments have been satisfactorily resolved. C679 12:10, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Done.  The C of E   God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:10, 22 March 2014 (UTC)