# Talk:Wellington R. Burt

Anon editor, please explain what you mean by "quantifies a quality"? There is nothing wrong with saying he was among the eight wealthiest men in America, it's perfectly acceptable grammar, cited to a reliable source, highly notable and fully quoted. Please don't remove it again until you've provided an explanation, just saying "quantifies a quality" is meaningless. Saying that someone is among the top 8 (or 10) wealthiest in a country is notable and significant, it's not a "quality", it's an objective mathematical fact. Green Cardamom (talk) 02:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

It's unclear how $40 and $90 million in 1919 could be only $100 million 92 years later, but that's what the sources say. I remember reading somewhere the heirs were questioning estate performance, so perhaps this will become public later, perhaps not. Green Cardamom (talk) 06:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

His death cert. says he died of 'senility'. That sounds strange. My initial reaction is suicide, given his isolation and odd behavior with the will. Does anyone have any thoughts if doctors covered up suicides with coded diagnosis back in the day? Green Cardamom (talk) 06:34, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

It might have been coded, but it is not required to explain the death. Even Altzheimer's can directly lead to involuntary life-threatening behaviours. - Tenebris  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.156.170 (talk) 05:51, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Wellington R. Burt/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:46, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
See if you can tidy the article up a bit. Refs should be in numerical order, eg. [1][2] not [2][1]; if a quotation is a sentence fragment, then the end quote marks should come before the full stop/period. There are also some sentence which are grammatically odd. I suggest a quick read through to check it is as you intend (I've spotted a clause without a verb, for example). SImilarly there are some typographical errors "etc.." for example. Do you have dates for the pictures? If so, caption them accordingly. Personally, I'd crop his name from the picture, but that's not required. You also do what I do and put an excessive number of commas before the word "and", which complicates the sentence structure and makes clarity hard to achieve, particularly in sentences with other commas. "Many thought this would be the end of Burt's fortunes" sounds like editorialising, which should be avoided.
The references are also a little confusing. Some are listed by author first, some web links have retrieval dates, some do not, "Burt Opera House" is just stated. Whilst use of WP:Citation templates is not necessary, I suggest you take a look and either use them, or perhaps copy them in some respects to ensure clear referencing. There was, also, some discussion about Find-a-grave as to whether it was a reliable source, but I can't remember the conclusion. I'll get beck to you on that. Article is on hold for 7 days, or until that and the other issues are resolved. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:46, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello, thanks for your time in going over the article. There's a lot of suggestions, some I understand some not. To help workflow I'm going to unpack into a list so we can go through and check off. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 17:18, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Refs should be in numerical order
Done. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
If a quotation is a sentence fragment, then the end quote marks should come before the full stop/period
Fixed. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
some sentence which are grammatically odd .. I've spotted a clause without a verb
Will need help here, don't know which sentences are off. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:48, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
some typographical errors "etc.." for example
Changed to "etc." per Et cetera. Also standardized all quotes to "". Green Cardamom (talk) 17:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
dates for the pictures
The two pictures without dates, none are available. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:44, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
I'd crop his name from the picture
Done. Green Cardamom (talk) 04:07, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
excessive number of commas before the word "and"
Removed a bunch of commas.. Green Cardamom (talk) 18:06, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"Many thought this would be the end of Burt's fortunes" sounds like editorialising
I added "at the time" to clarify, it is basically what the source says people at the time thought. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:39, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"Burt Opera House" is just stated
Added "Taymouth Township, Michigan". Green Cardamom (talk) 17:48, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"By the "Burt Opera House", I meant the last reference in the article" (User:Grandiose)
Ok fixed. Green Cardamom (talk) 19:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
references are also a little confusing .. Citation templates
Done. Green Cardamom (talk) 03:59, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Find-a-grave as to whether it was a reliable source?
I have been able to ascertaon that current consensus is that "Find a Grave [is] not a reliable source" (User:Grandiose)
Removed FindAGrave (which was a microfiche image of his death cert) and replaced with original source of image and uploaded to Commons. Green Cardamom (talk) 19:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I'll leave you to work through the remaining items to the point where it's just the few things you don't quite understand. If you're a native speaker, it should just be a case of reading it through carefully (I did nothing more to notice them). Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  18:02, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
A couple more points. Firstly, I have been able to ascertaon that current consensus is that "Find a Grave [is] not a reliable source", which unfortunately means removing it as a reference. Once you've done this, I'll give the article a sweep to see if anything needs an alternative reference. Secondly, by the "Burt Opera House", I meant the last reference in the article, not in the text itself. Sorry for the confusion. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  18:07, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Ok I've addressed the points above, anything additional let me know. Re: grammar, I'm a native speaker, but make mistakes, and since I wrote it I've read through it many times, which is the problem, I often have trouble seeing my own mistakes, so will need an editor or someone to read through for grammatical corrections. If you'd rather not, do you know of anyone or project on Wikipedia who volunteer for that sort of thing? Green Cardamom (talk) 04:11, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

I've taken care of it - things like angled quotation marks, links, grammar, and editorialising. I suggest you take a look so you can see what to keep an eye out for. Passing, although some reviewers would be more picky about grammar than me. For future reference, the WP:Guild of Copyeditors (and their requests page) are where to go. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  17:47, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Ok great edits, they seem obvious after the fact, thanks for taking the time, and I'll keep the Guild in mind next time before going to GA. Green Cardamom (talk) 19:16, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Burt was a politician, holding the offices of Mayor of East Saginaw (1867–68) and member-elect of the Michigan Senate (1893–94).
The suffix –elect normally applies to someone who has been elected but not yet taken office (e.g., B.Obama between November 2008 and the following January 20).  Seeing this near the top of the article, I took it to mean that Burt died (or resigned or was disqualified) during that interval, but no, the article says elsewhere that he did hold office (and lived long afterward).
Then I thought, maybe in Michigan at the time not all Senators were directly elected, and some were identified as members-elect to distinguish them from members appointed.  A bit farfetched, but not impossible, so I raise the question here before boldly removing –elect. —Tamfang (talk) 09:02, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

No you are correct it is in error. Thanks. Green Cardamom (talk) 16:01, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

... he officially died of "senility" at age 87.
Did senility mean dementia back then, or old age in general? —Tamfang (talk) 07:12, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Previous discussion about it above. Green Cardamom (talk) 16:07, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
...consisting of conjecture which does not address the question. —Tamfang (talk) 16:28, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Reading the Wikipedia article on dementia, it says dementia was called senility which was considered a normal aging process and not a disease. But it was applied to psychosis of mental illness. So, as far as we know he could have died of anything - a heart attack, suicide by insanity, actual dementia - it could be anything, it's conjecture to discuss the actual cause of death because the term was so broadly used. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:21, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

The current version of the article says that he attended Albion College first and then "Michigan Central College, now Adrian College."  This is incorrect; Michigan Central College was the predecessor to Hillsdale College, not Adrian College.  The source article, besides being an outdated link, is incorrect in that area, and any history account of Hillsdale College can confirm that.  Can someone please make this change?  (I don't know how it works with sourcing and all that.)
What led me here is a short obituary from the Hillsdale Collegian (Hillsdale College student newspaper) from March 13, 1919.  It may or may not be useful as a source to cite:  http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Search&Key=HDC/1919/03/13/1/Ar00106.xml&CollName=HDC_APA3&DOCID=29989&PageLabelPrint=1&skin=%48%69%6c%6c%73%64%61%6c%65&AW=%31%34%35%36%36%38%31%34%39%36%38%37%36&sPublication=%48%44%43&sScopeID=%44%52&sSorting=%49%73%73%75%65%44%61%74%65%49%44%2c%61%73%63&sQuery=%73%74%75%64%65%6e%74%20%63%6f%75%6e%63%69%6c&rEntityType=&sSearchInAll=%74%72%75%65&sDateFrom=%25%33%30%25%33%31%25%32%66%25%33%30%25%33%31%25%32%66%25%33%31%25%33%39%25%33%31%25%33%37&sDateTo=%25%33%30%25%33%37%25%32%66%25%33%32%25%33%30%25%32%66%25%33%32%25%33%30%25%33%31%25%33%36&RefineQueryView=&StartFrom=%36%30&ViewMode=GIF
If anybody could help with this, that would be great.
Thanks a lot.  195.64.79.61 (talk) 21:58, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. It is fixed. -- GreenC 23:38, 20 July 2016 (UTC)