# Talk:Siege of Dubrovnik

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The article seems to be written just from the Croation POV. e.g. there are claims by reporters and witnesses from inside Dubrovnik that the shelling wasn't intense and the historic part of the City wasn't destroyed to the extend as the Croats claimed. And it is claimed that the Croation troops fired from hospitals and hotels to draw Serbian counter fire which could than be used for their Media campaign. --Wikieditoroftoday (talk) 23:20, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

As I explained in the edit description, the article could certainly use more sources and a neutrality check. However, adding a Serbian-produced video is certainly not a positive way to go. Speaking of "claims by some or other" is not really a reputable source. All sources named in the article so far are either from an impartial source (ICTY or foreign news agencies) or are positively discriminating (i.e. Serbian/Montenegrian source that talks about their attacks negatively). Only 3 of the 15 sources are Croatian (and another 3 are Serb/MN), so it can hardly be considered a one-sided article... Again, sources and constructive edits are welcome. The Spanish Inquisitor (talk) 14:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I will leave this here: 
https://twitter.com/undertakersu/status/1306338430369095680 
The shelling was of the Croatian terrorist positions within the city. Now we can talk about POV of this article which is clearly strongly biased, and uses biased sources Pixius  talk 13:30, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

What a comment by Wikieditoroftoday! Any normal person would say that even one bullet in a civilian area would be one bullet too many. There was no military value to be gained by the Serbs and Montenegrins in destroying a civilian UNESCO heritage-listed area - it was just gratuitous and wanton. So any comments about the intensity of the shelling miss the point. The point being: Any shelling was wrong and criminal in the first place.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.192.132 (talk) 05:47, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Can you please write something more about the battle of the village Ravno ... What happened there i would like to know this if I`m an outstanding reader of this article and also I personally would like to know what happened there  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.152.254.254 (talk) 01:11, 16 February 2011 (UTC) 
Another hopelessly lop-sided view of the conflict in the former Yugoslavia. To give a simple example in the first line of the article, the author(s) claim that Serbs euphemistically label this phase of the war the 'blockage of Dubrovnik'. In fact, this is a label that can also be attributed to many Croatian media (http://www.domovinskirat.hr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=588:operacija-qajkulaq-blokada-dubrovnika-&catid=106:vojne-operacije-agresora-&Itemid=121).

Just take a look at the Serbian version of this article. It is just called "The blockade of Dubrovnik", while every other version calls it by its name, aka "Siege (or battle) of Dubrovnik". There was a bloackade of the city...but it certainly didn't stop just at that.--Justice and Arbitration (talk) 07:27, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

1. From What i've heard the forces attacking Dubronovik were mostly Montenegrin rather then Serb, and the JNA contained many Croat and Muslim fighters
2. A Ceasefire was called, that doesnt make it a Croatian Victory.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Of The Moas (talk • contribs) 07:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC) 

True, the Montenegrin remnant of the Yugoslav People's Army was mostly involved in the Dubrovnik area, but it was subordinated to Belgrade. Momir Bulatovic was Milosevic's stooge for most of his term, until he later on actually showed some backbone and expressed his opposition of continuing the siege of Dubrovnik in 1992. Likewise, 70 percent of all JNA officers and non-commissioned officers were either Serbs or Montenegrins[1]. After Croatia and Slovenia declared independence, Bosniaks, Croats, Slovenes and even Macedonians massively left the army.
As for the issue of victory, let's examine what happened.
Dubrovnik was never conquered
Dubrovnik remained a part of Croatia
Plans to create some new Serbian "Dubrovnik Republic" failed
Croatian Army advanced steadily from the west and forced the Yugoslav Army to pull out of the area
Further joint operations pushed the army deep behind Trebinje, which caused difficulties to attack Dubrovnik in the future
If that can not be considered victory, what can?--Justice and Arbitration (talk) 13:15, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
That's just arbitrary bullshit, JNA pulled back because of international pressure, and that in the end Croatia managed to exterminate its Serb population that it started in ww2 with concentration camps, has nothing to do with actual battle.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Siege of Dubrovnik/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Grandiose (talk · contribs) 16:10, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
I'll be taking this review. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  16:10, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Images: fine. Lead image is non-free; rationale is thorough and I accept it. The effective resolution is smaller than the current resolution because of the way the image has come to be on WP. I have added the Freedom of panorama template to a couple of images just to be clear. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  21:05, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Prose: I have made a series of small changes to the prose. The only change that needs checking is the change of "east" to "west" of Montenegro, since I could not see any way the proposed state in Dubrovnik could be east of Montenegro - the boundary river runs through Croatia. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Sourcing: every controversial statement is reference to some source. I've considered whether the range of sources is appropriate, particularly in the controversial areas. The claims made are not needlessly inflammatory, which reduces the need for even better sourcing, but regardless the mix of Western news reports, ICTY documents, and local/national news reports I think is satisfactory, all things considered. Going further (ACR or FA) I think it would be worth investing some time going even further to reduce the number of Serbian and Croatian references in controversial areas, even though, as I say, most claims are factual. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:28, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Neutrality: fine, as per above. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:28, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Lead - a couple of small tweaks made, otherwise a useful and proper summary of the article. Layout - almost textbook; all sections of suitable length and on the whole meaningful. I've changed the semicolon usage to lvl four headings (even though they now follow a lvl 2) because I understand that usage is deprecated. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Stable - nothing in the history leads me to believe that the article is unstable.Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:52, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
'Coverage - very good, both broad and focussed. Thorough.Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:52, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Copyright/plagiarism - I've checked a couple of sentences against both the web in general looking for similar passages and the English-language source in each case. I have been unable to verify that any given passage has not been taken from a foreign-language source directly, but since I have verify a couple I shall AGF on the remainder; I have no reason to believe otherwise. (Copyright and plagiarism is often endemic to an article.) Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:52, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Overall - Tomobe has fixed some harvnb problems I flagged at his talk page after I opened this review, and, as a result, I have no outstanding concerns. For the reasons given above, I am passing the article. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs)  13:52, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

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Last edited at 18:59, 20 January 2013 (UTC).
Substituted at 06:07, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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@StephenMacky1 i opened this conversation in which we can discuss things and find the best solution. 
Ok so thank you for telling me that such thing as Initial and Eventual result doesn't exist and shouldn't be put in infobox but could we use such things as Stragetic and Tactical victory as result? Well you see I don't think having only Croatian victory is good, the Yugoslavia also seek some objectives as Establishing the Dubrovnik Republic getting some territory even after the siege and doing massive amount of damage to the region.JNA withdrew because of Sarajevo Agreement and international pressuse so only worth mentioning something as Croatian success is that they lifted the siege. So what do you think? Could we make the result somewhere similar as Battle of Zadar? It would be wonderful Tif maps (talk) 18:52, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

Such a result could be used if there are sources that support it. The result is the outcome of the whole siege, not things that happened during the siege. StephenMacky1 (talk) 19:19, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
Hmm understandable Enough. Let's put this if you agree: instead of Croatian victory we replaced it with Ceasefire and on Territory we put that Prevlaka remained under Montenegrin control. Tif maps (talk) 19:42, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
Nope. Content should be based on sources, not opinions. You can try to bring sources to justify your changes but good luck with that since this content has been long standing. StephenMacky1 (talk) 19:54, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

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