# Talk:Valkyrie

Although I see this as a waste of time BUT, Valkyrie can mean a number of things. Just like Enterprise. -- Cat chi? 17:45, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Move-- Cat chi? 17:46, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
OPPOSE. This article should treat the basic meaning of Valkyrie, with a link to a disambiguation page where derived uses are listed.--Wiglaf 17:49, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Oppose per Wiglaf's reasoning. The Norse term is the primary use from which all the others are derived, so it should be here, with the Starcraft unit and the experimental bomber and such disambiguated appropriately. —Charles P. (Mirv) 19:08, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I realise that but the Aircraft for instance have little to do with the norse term, nor does the motorcycle or any of the fictional characters in names. It is as related as the Aircraft Carrier Enterpise to Enterprise-D of Star Trek. Hence the need of disambig -- Cat chi? 04:23, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Hence Valkyrie (disambiguation). There's an extensive style guide for this. —Charles P. (Mirv) 14:22, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Oppose per Wiglaf and Mirv. --Salleman 21:43, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Oppose per above and note that someone should move Talk:Valkyrie (Norse mythology) back here and delete Valkyrie (Wagner) which was copied out of the main article. — Davenbelle 04:13, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
I will move the talkpage when this vote is over.--Wiglaf 08:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
see also move request at Talk:Valkyrie (disambiguation) && WP:POINT.  — Davenbelle 04:23, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
m:Don't be a dick -- Cat chi? 04:24, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
see also: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek/Proposed decision && this too. — Davenbelle 04:31, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
m:Don't be a dick and dont distupt wikipedia to make a point. -- Cat chi? 04:24, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Oppose per Wiglaf and Mirv. —Wahoofive (talk) 20:19, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Oppose. As per Wiglaf. – AxSkov (☏) 06:55, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
No need to go on IMHO. I shall run from this vote before Valkyrie's come chasing me. ^^ -- Cat chi? 06:17, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. Dragons flight 00:18, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Cool Cat, having had your unilateral move undone by Wiglaf, you requested this move again stating at the top of this page that you "see this as a waste of time" — and I can only assume you mean the move request, and that you expect the move to not have consensus — yet you made the move request anyway. This is exactly what Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point is about. — Davenbelle 04:45, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

You have any idea what the hell you are talking about? You request a move and then get a concensus. Thats why you list it on requested moves. I can suggest a freaking move. There is no bad faith here. Why don't you go pester some other civilisation? Stop following me around AS PER ARBCOM RULING YOU POSTED. Shoo! -- Cat chi? 04:49, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I do believe that I know what the hell I am talking about. — Davenbelle 07:39, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
You are plainly an irritating troll to make people discuss views you don't hold. Oppose me on every suggestion, move, and edit I make, go ahead. -- Cat chi? 07:45, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
User:Cool Cat, I am not a troll, I do believe what I've said here, and your continued personal attacks are not helping your case any. — Davenbelle 07:50, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
So it is a mere coincidence that you are opposing me on a vote for the 5th time out of the 6 votes I was part of in the past 30 days? -- Cat chi? 07:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
I suggest that you make better proposals. — Davenbelle 08:00, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
This will look great on arbcom case. -- Cat chi? 08:06, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

I think that it is wrong to state something which is never explicitly confirmed by the sources – but only an interpretation – as a fact in the lead sentence of the article; namely that the valkyries are dísir. The valkyrjur–dísir–nornir connection should be elaborated on in a section below the statement of facts. --Salleman 22:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Even Freya was a Dís, and according to the definition that the Dísir were "minor female deities", there is nothing wrong in it. Nor do I think that it is very controversial either. If you disagree, which is normal on Wikipedia, just change it.--Wiglaf 05:51, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I am, like Salleman, slightly uncomfortable with the wording of the lead. The valkyries, however, are sometimes referred to as dísir in the ancient sources so it is defensible. Here's an example from Krákumál (kudos to Wiglaf for writing an article on it).
Fýsum-k hins at hætta.
Heim bjóða mér dísir,
þær's frá Herjans höllu
hefr Óðinn mér sendar.
The translation is left as an exercise for the reader. - Haukurth 20:28, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Haukurth! The term dísir appears to have been used both for goddesses (Freya was Vanadís), Norns (according to Nordisk familjebok) and for Valkyries. IMHO, it is sensible to stay with this use of the name dís, since it is all we know about them.--Wiglaf 20:54, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

This article says:

I believe this is not true. To my best knowledge, the purpose of the Valkyrjur was to choose the fighters who would die in each battle (in old-norse: "kjósa val", which means to choose casualties), not to choose among the ones who died (all menn who died in battle became einherjar). They shared this role with Odin (sometimes named "Valfaðir", father of casualties) and Týr, the one-armed wargod. I will change this when I have the original source handy. BjörnÓmarsson 09:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

They were priestesses concerned with human sacrifice in ancient Germanic culture as well, not just mythic minor deities; as has been fairly attested to by the likes of Ibn Fahdlan. "Angels of death" or really as they are translated "Choosers of the slain", is pretty much the same rendering in meaning. This shouldn't go without mention in the article. [1] Nagelfar 03:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Whatever the case may be, surely there's a better site out there hosting the study - that site is just painful. :bloodofox: 09:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Also, I remember reading that there was a prohibition against witches and 'valkyries' in a Catholic church restriction. I remember reading of it and the author making the point that if valkyries were a caste of people whose profession was forbidden, then they must have been actual people, possibly another name for a Völva that was in current use. 207.202.227.125 01:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I was browsing and came across this page and noticed that there were links to two girls' soccer teams, which seemed inappropriate. I would have said they should be linked or referenced on the disambiguation page. I shall come back to check to see if anyone makes a strong case for keeping them or whether someone who has contributed to this page has moved them or wants to keep them. Otherwise I shall move them at that point. --Muchado 15:43, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I can't find any mention on this aircraft anywhere on Wikipedia. Does anyone know anything about this?

That was a real (experimental) aircraft and it's got a pretty good article here on Wikipedia (if you should happen to still be looking). You have the wrong designation, though, I think; try XB-70? J.M. Archer (talk) 19:45, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I move a section where Freyja is said to be a Valkyrie, here:

In Gylfaginning of the Prose Edda and the poem Grimnismál of the Poetic Edda, it is said that Freyja receives half of the slain heroes in her hall Fólkvangr, however there are no descriptions about life at Fólkvangr. In Skáldskaparmál, Freyja is called "Possessor of the Slain" (Eidandi Valfalls), and in Njal's Saga, another title of Freyja is mentioned: Valfreyja "Mistress of the Chosen" (cf. Valfadir, Valkyrja). Freyja is also called Vanadís, which suggests that she is related to the dísir.
The main problem here is that none of these facts point to Freyja being a Valkyrie. Dís simply meant "lady" and it appears to have comprised all female supernatural powers, including Freyja and the Valkyries. The fact that Freyja received the slain does not make her a Valkyrie more than it makes Odin a Valkyrie.--Berig 07:59, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Moved it back and gave it a section. Agreed that Freyja is a major goddess and is certainly not a mere minor Vakyrie, but Grimm pointed out in his "German Mythology" that Freyja is maybe Mistress of the Valkyr. Since the Valkyries divided the slain to both Odin and Freyja, it's worth mentioning Freyja and her links to Valkyries in the article. It clearly does not deserve a deletion. Cryinggirls(T T) 07:37, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I beileived that she married into the valkeries.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.123.125.237 (talk) 02:16, 17 October 2011 (UTC) 

Absurd. Valkyries are female. They are not really classified by the sources we have (which are extremely late in origin) but it's clear they are subordinate to Freyja. Not sure why I responded to this. Obotlig (talk) 03:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

How is the word pronounced, both in the original language and in English? 91.107.128.252 (talk) 22:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to know this as well.  The proper English pronunciation though , not American. --59.100.51.1 (talk) 03:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I assume it would be written in IPA, which would mean that the pronunciation would be fine in either dialect.  98.202.165.201 (talk) 05:01, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Why were these pics removed?

I think it is far superior to represent Valkyries with what scholars consider to be contemporary illustrations rather than romanticized pictures from the 19th and the 20th centuries, and I'd appreciate an explanation for their removal.--Berig (talk) 15:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Bloodofox is rewriting the article, I bet he plans to put those images back in when he gets to the archaeological attestations. On the other hand maybe one of them should be the lede image. I certainly wouldn't object if you put the Tjängvide stone back in the lede. Haukur (talk) 18:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Haukur is correct. I am rewriting the article from scratch and will be bringing it to GA status (and FA is quite possible from there). I intend to bring in an "archaeological record" section to cover all of the finds. It's nowhere near where it needs to be at the moment, but that will change. :bloodofox: (talk) 20:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
As an update, I am currently away from most of my books at the moment, but will get back to them in a few days or so. I still intend to create said section, and I think we ought to include the images above in a gallery (as they are shown above) located below the section. :bloodofox: (talk) 14:54, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I've started the section. I'm on the look out for a references that points out that this is Sigrdrífa. As I noted in a recent edit summary, I hope to be able to get some shots of some more of these silver valkyrie figures in Copenhagen soon (if anyone else is able to, please feel free, as I'll be using a camera unfamiliar to me to do so, unfortunately). :bloodofox: (talk) 14:01, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Have you tried Rundata as a reference for the Sigrdrífa picture?--Berig (talk) 14:33, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Good idea. Rundata has "Bild av Sigurd Fafnesbane som sticker sitt svärd genom ormen, dessutom dvärgen Andvare och valkyrian Sigdriva som räcker Sigurd ett dryckeshorn" with the reference $=Larsson 2002:71f (According to Rundata: 2002: Yrrunan. Användning och ljudvärde i nordiska runinskrifter. (Runrön 17), Uppsala.), so we even have a specific mention of Sigrdrífa handing Sigurd a drinking horn. I'll add it. :bloodofox: (talk) 14:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

After typing this, I realized I had some images on my hard drive from previous visits that we could use. However, as it stands the only reference I have to these objects as being valkyries with me is from the displays at the National Museum of Denmark. Here are the images.

Know of any references outside of this that we could use? :bloodofox: (talk) 16:32, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with the items. The best way might be to ask people at the museum by e-mail.--Berig (talk) 16:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, if nothing else, I suppose we can cite the museum display captions themselves (which I also photographed), though a printed source would certainly be superior. :bloodofox: (talk) 21:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I've checked a bit around, and per MoS WP:LQ, we are to use logical quotation, not American quotation, which means that punctuation should be outside of a quotation if it is not in the quotation in the source. I do not have access to all the sources used here, so I will not perform any change yet, even though I did do so earlier when I put all the punctuation marks inside the quotation marks, thinking we'd be consistent in use of American grammar and spelling. I do not know if the article followed logical quotation before I went around changing it all, but if it did, I will try to restore it how it was. –Holt  (T•C) 16:26, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Going around all the different Norse afterlife-related pages, it seems that only this one really states that the Valkyries pick the most heroic, as opposed to some kind of arbitrary half and half selection of the dead. Do the unheroic warriors then belong to Freyja? What of warriors deliberately wounding themselves to trick the goddess Hel? Do unheroic warriors somehow also go to Hel as an alternative to both Valhalla and Fólkvangr? Can these discrepancies be attributed to the incomplete survival of texts and the destruction suffered from Christian suppression?
I can only imagine how neo-pagans must feel when trying to actually revive portions of this faith. D Boland (talk) 19:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

These details are not found in the surviving source material, and it's worth noting that the feminine aspects of Germanic paganism are poorly represented in the sources. Most of the material that has survived involves kingship and royalty in some way or another, with a heavy emphasis on Odin. Yet, in the sources that do survive, it's revealing that those that die end up in supernatural female possession no matter what; valkyries to Valhalla, Freyja receives half of all those slain in battle in Fólkvangr (a very revealing surviving element of the apparent role of women in Germanic society prior to Christianization), Rán if at sea, and Hel under more vague circumstances. It's also quite unfortunate that more work by female skalds (!) didn't survive. :bloodofox: (talk) 05:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

The article states that there is confusion as to whether the Valkyrie was from a Norse background or "Indiginous Anglo-Saxon Pagans" however it must be remembered that the Angles and the Saxons were also of a Germanic and Scandinavian origin. The indiginous occupants of Britain were the Celts (also pagans) so even if there were Anglo-Saxon references to the Valkyrie, they could easily have still come across from Scandinavia with the previous invasions of the few hundred years after the Romans left.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.255.136.194 (talk) 10:32, 2 July 2010 (UTC) 

Yes, you are correct, but I should point out that by the time England was formed by the Anglo-Saxon settlers, the Britons had Christianized. Anyway, the point of the section is that it's unclear whether or not later waves of Norse paganism introduced the concept of the valkyrie among the Anglo-Saxons or that it was a pan-Germanic concept. Certainly, the idisi/dísir were pan-Germanic, and they are clearly closely related to the valkyries—if not at some point one and the same—but we don't know anymore about valkyries in specific among non-Scandinavian Germanic peoples. :bloodofox: (talk) 11:56, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

I once read somewhere that the word might have stemmed from val(hall) and the greek ker (spirit). thus hall spirit as in valhala and related to greek keres as an inspirational source to thier mythos.  i can't recall the source and it might just be conjecture. 98.216.6.31 (talk) 00:57, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

No the words have straightforward meanings. "hall" and cognates mean hall. "kyrie" means something what it sounds like in English, chooser. It stems from Germanic origins and not via Greek. Val means dead or slain, typically in battle. It and its cognates were a common word. Valkyrie has a straightforward meaning of chooser of the battle-slain. The sound would make sense in Old English as well. wæl-cyrge. cyre means choice from ceosan to choose. Common words in the Germanic languages. Obotlig (talk) 02:50, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't the sentence have half before among.  As it is now it reads: "Selecting among half of those who die in battle (the other half go to the goddess Freyja's afterlife field Fólkvangr)" meaning a portion of half are chosen by the valkerie rather than an entire half.  Instead: "Selecting half among of those who die in battle (the other half go to the goddess Freyja's afterlife field Fólkvangr)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.177.171 (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2011 (UTC) 

Warnning to Valkyrie in NTNU sir,
Do not talk bad-words and whisper with others!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.38.238.199 (talk) 13:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC) 

I've separated some material on recent television characters by putting them under a new subheading, but should they be here at all? I doubt if the characters are intended to be authentic, but on the other hand they do represent some continuing interest. --Northernhenge (talk) 22:28, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

This sort of thing tends to accrue on these articles, and whether or not the information is notable or even if the media directly references the topic at hand is frequently an issue. Norse mythology in modern popular culture is a very interesting topic, but we can't just have a pile of uncited information piling up at the end of this article. If it's not sourced, it should be deleted on sight; see WP:PROVEIT. :bloodofox: (talk) 23:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough. I couldn't really see a way of making the existing dubious material fit anywhere sensibly, so deletion was always a possible outcome. --Northernhenge (talk) 14:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The official Valkyre are 3 sisters, they have the same blonde hair color, they are only 3 of them.--Svehen (talk) 13:16, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

What's with all these red-marked errors on the page? SkyGuy1994 (talk) 05:57, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

What red-marked errors? I saw one redlink (which I fixed). Perhaps you have a spell checker installed and it's objecting to the Old Norse, but that's not a Wikipedia issue. 79.72.183.207 (talk) 23:58, 25 December 2017 (UTC)