# Talk:Tommy John

Why use † to denote members of the Baseball Hall of Fame ?  The symbol is often used to denote dead people. An asterisk would be better. -- 199.71.174.100 09:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I replaced it with a ◊ which is probably more topical and without the implication noted above. Firebug 09:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Great. It's much better now. Thank you for the speedy revision. -- 199.71.174.100 09:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, my bad.  I chose that symbol totally at random.  I've never heard of the cross being reserved for dead people.  wknight94 11:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/†, I found this information, "Since it also represents the Christian cross, in certain predominantly Christian regions, the mark is used in a text after the name of a deceased person or the date of death, as in Christian grave headstones. For this reason, it should not be used as a footnote mark next to the name of a living person."  Mdoyne 01:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:25, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

This is Tommy John's last year on the initial ballot and Ricky Henderson and Jim rice make his odds look dim. Considering that he came just short of 300 wins with a very respectable ERA isn't there a lot of controversy about whether he should be in the hall? If so that should be mentioned in the article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.78.63 (talk) 01:48, 15 January 2008 (UTC) 

Isn't it in poor taste and outside the purview of an encyclopedia article to include a photo of Tommy John's divorce papers?  I question the reason for its presence (surely, at least one hundred thousand biographies in the English Wikipedia feature publicly dissolved, verifiable divorces), and by what avenue it entered Wikipedia.  I urge the authors of this article and the Wikipedia community to remove that photograph.Mousebelt (talk) 05:49, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
NOTE: In a peremptory manner, I removed the picture of Tommy John's divorce filing for the reasons stated above, but also because otherwise no meaningful discussion of this minor topic will ever take place.  I apologize to the moderators, as I rarely change content (as opposed to style) in Wikipedia, let alone remove pictures/pdfs.Mousebelt (talk) 16:35, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Tommy John/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: HawkAussie (talk · contribs) 05:19, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I will hopefully be claiming this article and reviewing for you.


### Lead
...and, with 288, has the second-most wins of any pitcher... - I can see where you trying to go here but needs it to be a little clearer like maybe adding wins at the end of 288.
At the age of 18, in 1961, John was signed by the Indians,... - Why do have the age he started. It could be easier to go: In 1961...
...and was named to his first All-Star team, - and was named "in" his first All-Star team,
He missed the 1975 season recovering but - recovering doesn't fit in here you know. Maybe add "from his injury" or something like that.
...he was an All-Star in those years as well as in 1978, his final year with the Dodgers. - Hmm this seams to be tacked on at the end of that sentence there.
In 1981, he suffered a scare when his son Travis fell three stories on August 13 and spent about two weeks in a coma... - Is this really relevant for the lead because I don't think it does and could be better used in the main section only.
...that John's career might be over,... - John's career "was" over


### Early life
All the athletics did not get in the way of his schoolwork,... - Modify to maybe "The sports didn't get...


### Playing career
...and John won two games for them with the playoffs. won two games for them "in" the playoffs.
The final sentence of the minor league needs to probably be expanded at least by another sentence because it's very jumpy.
September 6, 1963, was the start of the 26-year major league career of Tommy John, - This sentence needs some rework so an idea could be, (On September 6, 1963, Tommy John made his major league debut for the Cleveland Indians... (fill in the rest of it here)
Manager Birdie Tebbetts... - "Cleveland" manager...
...first start of 1964, on May 3, John... - Drop "on May 3" section as that looks out of place
lost eight decisions... - What is decisions in this context.
...with the White Sox were in relief. - Shouldn't it be in "was in relief"
September 25, he held the - "On" September 25... or something like that
...made John his Opening Day starter - Something doesn't really click here, I can't put my finger on it.
Once again in 1967, John led the AL in shutouts,... - Change this start of the sentence to "The following year, John once again....
...after facing just two batters and did not pitch again until August 20. - What happened for him to not pitch until that date?
...half, he was named to the All-Star Game... - For which side as you haven't said about that.
Another highlight came against Cleveland August 9, when he... - Missing "on" between Cleveland and August 9.
August 22 of that year, with a 3-2... - Look at the "September 25 post section.
McAuliffe was fined and suspended; John was not punished... - McAuliffe was "later" fined and suspended
John was recovered in time for the 1969 season,... - Remove the "was" in this section here
In fact, he lost his first five starts before defeating... - You could modify this to "After losing his first five starts..." just so to get rid of the in fact part.
His 17 losses tied teammate Gerry Janeski for third - Grammar issue as their are probably a couple of missing words here.


### Career statistics
### Hall of Fame candidacy
### Impact of Tommy John surgery
### Pitching style
### Broadcasting
### Coaching
### Personal life
### Bibliography
### See also
### Notes
### References
What about some references from the games that isn't from the baseball-refence and maybe from the newspapers at the time as they might have that info as well.
The baseball-reference cites are perfectly fine. Additionally, they are usually more detailed about each player's performance than a newspaper account is. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 20:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)


### External links
### Final comments
@Sanfranciscogiants17: I'm sorry that I have to ping you but I think it might be me as I am struggling to get through this and really shouldn't of picked this up. HawkAussie (talk) 11:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
I know it's a long article (that's what happens when someone pitches for 26 years), but thanks for the reviewing you did do! Since you're struggling to get through this, I asked for a second opinion so someone else can finish the review if you don't have time. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 21:02, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
@Sanfranciscogiants17: That is what I might do. HawkAussie (talk) 22:36, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
@Sanfranciscogiants17 and HawkAussie: - I'd be willing to review this article, if neither of y'all have objections to that. Hog Farm  Talk 23:49, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
@Hog Farm: Sounds good to me! Thanks! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 04:08, 13 May 2021 (UTC)


### Starting over - HF
Lead
Link slider
Recommend mentioning his minor league time briefly in the lead
Chicago White Sox
"July 22, he left a game against the Athletics after facing just two batters and did not pitch again until August 20" - Any reason known why for this?  Maybe an injury?
Saw in his book that he was affected by a severe gastrointestinal virus in the second half of the season. Not sure if that's why he was pulled from the game, but I mentioned it in the next sentence. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 12:44, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
"John was recovered in time for the 1969 season, " - is "was" needed
1976-1978
"making Game 3 John's only appearance of the loss" - recommend changing the "of" to "in"
 Though the Royals and the Reds had both offered more money, John chose the Yankees because, as he said, "I like to play for a winner." --> this is not a GA review comment.  Just want to say as a long-term Royals fan, this is an "ouch" quote about the franchise 
Well, just remember which one would be the next team to win the World Series, haha. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 12:44, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Personal life
"The two met at Duke University/[192][193] " - the / looks like it might be an error
"On July 13, 1970, Tommy married the former Sally Simmons. They are the parents of four children: Tamara, Tommy III, Travis, and Taylor.[191] In 2014, John moved to California with his girlfriend, Cheryl Zeldin" - How/when did the marriage to Simmons end?
The only thing I've found proving for sure that there was a divorce is that someone had posted on Wikipedia Commons pictures of the divorce paperwork. However, I can't find any news articles about it at all. That's why I didn't mention it in the article. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 12:47, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Categories
Several of these categories do not seem to be supported by sources.  For instance, two about New Jersey are in there, but New Jersey is not mentioned in the article.  There's a category for the Modesto A's, but that team doesn't seem to be mentioned. There's a category about him being an Indiana State Sycamores baseball player, but the article says he went straight from high school to minor league ball.  The Fort Lauderdale Yankees are also mentioned in a category, but not in the article.
Removed several of the categories. The Modesto A's are implicitly mentioned; they were one of the teams John played for in 1985 when he was making rehab starts. I added mention of Fort Lauderdale to the article. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 13:03, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Personally, I'm also of the opinion that Tommy John's three errors in one play incident is well-known and iconic enough to warrant a mention.
Beyond that, this looks to be in pretty good shape.  I'll be moving this from the second opinion to on hold. Hog Farm  Talk 04:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)