# Talk:Vincent Valentine

Will somebody please note his Limit Break in his fictional profile? I don't have enough expertise in editing, but I would appreciate it if someone who did would do so. Also, I don't remember the official name of his Limit Break— I always called it "Transformation," but that doesn't seem right due to the Materia of a similar name. Daganolson (talk) 00:19, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

In the 'Characteristics and abilities' section, someone has claimed that 'In "Dirge of Cerberus", Vincent has been shown to teleport.'  Uncited and it sure as heck is absolutely not true.  Just because in real time he gets from one city to another very quickly (due to stage changes) doesn't mean he can teleport!

I have heard roomers about a side story manga discussing the history of Vincent Valentine wile he was a member of the Turks. I do not know where to locate this manga. From pictures that I have seen, the Vincent in the manga looks a lot different then the one that we know from Final Fantasy VII, but is undobtably the one and the same. From the pictures, he used to be a very handsome, non-metal gauntlete handed, Turk member. As far as my own opinions about Vincent, he is my favorite character beside Sepherothe. Vincents unbridled power to turn into beasts of past rage only makes him a more uniqe and rememberal character. Also an interesting tip about Vincent in the game, if equiped with deathblow, he spins his rifle like mad. Looks pretty cool. Behold the unleashed power of Vincent.
Edited by Mark Kautzman
The manga is most likeley doujinshi. My recomendation: stay away from it. Cause it ruins the characters with gross sex and crap. -- Psi edit 

Not all doujinshis are hentai, Psi.  Like any work of fiction, fan based or otherwise, doujinshis vary in content greatly.  Sometimes, the content is very similar to what you'd find in the normal manga/story, but with a new enemy, power, whatever.  Other times, yes, there are doujinshis that depict sexual actions of various intensities(ranging anywhere from softcore to guro(excessively violent)).  So..  Don't judge all doujinshis by the ones that write their favorite characters into sexual situations.--Vercalos 05:15, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the history to vincent is very complex and we will never know his true past and what exactly happened to him through the years there are just some questions that cannot be answered but vincent is the best character in the game no matter what and i know lucrecia felt very guilty but i think if she talked to him they would be together today as he mentions in the game 'i never blamed her all i wanted was to see her smiling face' i just wish she never went into a relationship with hojo and never sealed herself in the crystals.    29 december 2006

"He is a popular example of a bishonen."  I'm not sure I agree with that.  Rufus Shinra's a bishonen, and one could argue that Cloud and Sephiroth are bishonen, but Vincent Valentine basically isn't.  Bishonen have to be at least a bit effeminate.  I'll probably remove the reference in a few days unless there's some sort of outcry.--ByrnedHead 23:10, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Being effeminate is not a total requirement to being a bishonen. And if personalty traits are an absolute requirement, then his personal drama and moodiness fills the bill plenty. Don't remove it. --Paul Soth 02:16, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
What? Vinny *is* a bishie!! Don't say things like that.

Yes, I would say that Vincent is a bishonen.  He does have feminine features.  Cloud does have some of the same features and so does Sephiroth so I think they would consider them bishonens.  They don't even have to look feminine.  They just have to look really hot.
On the side note, "bishonen" literally translates to "beautiful young man," not necessarily 'effeminate' or gay. Observation 07:23, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

There have been arguements as to whether Vincent is a vampire of some sort...Actually, I can see the side that thinks he may have been dead. Some Christians believe that hell is not a place of fire and brimstone, but a place where you relive all of your sins, for all eternity. That could be his "nightmare", so in that sense, he could be dead. However, Hojo did experiment on him, and that, assuming the experimentation didn't kill him in the first place, and if one assumes that he too was injected with Jenova cells, as I do, seeing as it was Hojo's favorite toy, as it did with Lucrecia, could have granted him unnatural long life, and therefore he imposes the sleep upon himself, a kind of self imposed purgatory, therefore making him alive. So, in short, both sides have valid points. ~ Lord Sephiroth 

Nah, he's not vampiric. You can't really compare Final Fantasy VII to other literature, except for the fact Vincent clearly mimics vampiric look and style. — CuaHL 22:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
My question is this:
SPOILER OF DIRGE OF CERBERUS ALERT
When he defeats Omega at the end of DoC and you see the purple/red life force of Chaos leave him, does that mean Vincent is no longer immortal? Becuase it seems to me like the reason he is immortal is because of Hojo instilling Chaos into him. User:Marduks Priest 18:47, 13 September 2006. i just want to know if vincent dies at the end of dirge of cerberus because he is nowhere to be found at the end?? If you watch all the way through the game, you get to see him walk out of the cave that Lucrecia's body is in and he meets Shelk (a more human and very much alive Shelk) she then says to him that everyone is waiting for him, meaning all of his comrades, Cloud, Tifa, Cid, etc.
I dont think it was chaos that made him immortal. Lucrecia put chaos in him, Hojo gave him the ability to transform and to change into the other monsters. I think it was possibly the experimenting that Hojo did to Vincent that gave him his immortality.

it could be that there was something special about him that simply gave him incredible longevity.  Everyone has genetic quirks in real life, and presumably, the fiction does take some thing from real life, so his longevity might be a natural trait enhanced by Chaos..  We can't really say one way or another though, as its up to the writers.
....Dirge of Cerburus explains his immotality. Hojo says that the reason why Vincent was perfect for chaos to live in him was becasue of the alterations he done to him making him almost indestructable (fast healing, can't age, ect..)

I used to think (like many others) that Vincent's left arm had been replaced by a mechanical one, but, when I was watching Advent Children, I noticed that the golden "claws" are merely articulated metal bits that lay on top of what appears to be a normal-looking hand. Unless he has something robotic underneath that glove, I would think that his left arm is intact after all, just covered up... apparently for whatever reason incited Vincent's original reaction upon seeing it. I've revised the entry accordingly. Reichu 23:59, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, i heard that he has the metal arm because he had infected Mako injected into him, and it started to attack the cells in his arm so he had it plated with the metal claw.
In FF7, it states in the library of the Shinra Mansion that his arm became infected with gangrene   and was replaced. Remember that ShinRa's technical ability seem to know no bounds, so it is entirely feasible in my mind that it is a cybernetic type device. I'm still unsure about the boots though, they make his feet so long! LadyStrange 18:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I've been reacquainting myself with FF7 recently (blame Advent Children), and I finally recalled the significant "gap" in Vincent's story. His flashback abruptly ends after he awakens from Hojo's treatment, and all we know is that he eventually ended up in that coffin. The preexisting article only took note of this by commenting on the fan debate about how long Vincent's prolonged slumber lasted - a bit too vague to be useful, so I've corrected this. Many fans say straight-out that Vincent put himself to sleep, as it were, which is in conflict with Hojo's own claim, but not entirely substanceless, IMO. I've attempted to present the frequently-advocated "alternate scenario", albeit favorably. Any thoughts?
Here's hoping that Dirge of Cerberus will satisfactorily resolve some of these problems... It'll necessitate a full rewrite of Vincent's page, more than likely. -Reichu 18:37, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
I always thought Vincent was put to sleep by Hojo and then woke up, he changed clothes and probably did a few things, maybe even discovering some of the things that happened while he was out and then he decided to sleep on his own after that. Because even though he woke up around Cloud and joined the party he actually woke up with Veld from BC and talked to him. So its possible that Hojo started his nap but Vincent just continued it. User:J-Axe
I agree with Hojo putting him there - once he became unstable he was too much of a risk to keep concious. He just decided to stay there because of his sins, as he puts it...until Cloud comes along and mentions Sephiroth, and a potential way to redeem himself. Although in AC Cloud does ask him if he thought we ever atone for our sins and he says he never thought about it, which struck me as odd for a character so wrapped up in guilt. LadyStrange 18:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I thought his reponse to Cloud was, "I never tried." -Giajoynt.

Uh, HUGE mistake there. The picture shown supposedly from his BC picture, is from his character card and alternate costume picture in Ehrgeiz. Vincent is never seen as a Turk in Before Crisis.
There is one chapter where Veld awakes him in the ShinRa mansion basement, but he is in the usual attire and in the coffin.

Already took care of it. Vincent was already sleeping when he was awaken by Veld at Chapter 19.

Grimoire Valentine is Vincents biological father and that he was getting an assitant who was Lucrecia Crescent Vincents love interest while reaserching about Chaos Grimoire came upon the place where Chaos was ment to be born he brung Lucrecia here (this was the place where Lucrecia sealed herself within the crystals). She could finish her thesis on Chaos now that Grimoire found the chaos lifeform within the crystals and brought it back to her lab where some of it got out of the tube Grimoire saved her life by pushing her out of the way while he was struck by the lifeform and then he says 'it is my time to return to the lifestream' and with that he dies in her arms.   27th December

If one goes through Dirge of Cerberus and remembers what exactly happened in Final Fantasy VII, the event takes place during the time between FFVII Cd2 and Cd3.  It takes place after Hojo's death, and before Cloud assembles everyone on the highwind and tells them to go pursue their dreams.  I'll direct you to this link here on Adventchildren.net where this was established. The password is "Vincent"
http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?t=63585&page=2&pp=15

Where is it ever said that Cloud's look in KH/KH: CoM is based off of Vincent's attire? I'll add a citation needed to that part, and wait to see if anyone can conjure one before deleting it. --Eternal Trance 20:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Cloud's look in KH is based off of Vincent. He wears Vincents cape and some other items.

Do you have any sources to prove that? Because if you're basing that off of your own observations, that's called Original Research and Wikipedia doesn't do that here. --Trance 16:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, scratch that. I went to the Cloud Strife page which says: "In Kingdom Hearts, Cloud appears in the Olympus Coliseum world. He wears a claw and a cape which Tetsuya Nomura stated are not Vincent Valentine's, but rather that the KH version of Cloud was designed in a similar "dark" style as Nomura put it, thus they will have similarities as a result." I'd like to see where Nomura said that, though they didn't cite it, but I'm still going to edit out that bit of trivia to keep it consistent throughout Wikipedia. --Trance 16:11, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Question: Also, about Cloud, isn't the left-hand side of his design modelled on FFVII's Vincent?
Nomura--Yes, his left arm is in Vincent's image. This time, in this setting, Cloud is leaning :::towards the dark side, and I wanted to make him a bit more demon-like. And, since Vincent was :::exactly that kind of design, I just added it in. Although I would have liked to put Vincent in the :::game too...
This is from the Kingdom Hearts Ultimania guide book interview. Here's a source.
http://www.khinsider.com/info/nomura2.shtml
There. It's cited. Now it should probably be re-added.198.213.57.8 16:31, 15 :::July 2006 (UTC)Makoeyes

Can someone please explain to me what explanation was given in regards to Vincent not being in the ending? That line in the "Trivia" section of the article is flat out wrong. Dirge of Cerberus makes NO ATTEMPT to explain why Yuffie and Vincent are not in the ending. The intro does not take place during the ending, and the game makes no mention of it. These two characters were not present during the ending because they were optional. Nothing more. Please stop adding that.198.213.57.8 16:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)Makoeyes

Yes it does, in the very beginning of the game Yuffie, Vincent, and some soliders (presumbly a precursor to the WRO) are escorting people into the slums of Midgar (Cait Sith says everyone has been escorted into the slums in the end of VII) and Yuffie makes a mention of everyone is gone and there is no signs of life except for Vincent noticing Hojo still being alive. So to recap: The intro to Dirge explains where they were in the end of VII. J-Axe
aaaaa, i was woundering why Hojo was in the intro for the end of FFVII because i knew he was back in DOC, but i didnt realise he was meantioned at the end of FFVII to being alive. its been a long time since i played it. lol
Also, Vincent and Yuffie were considered optional/secret characters, as you had to actually go and acquire them yourself - Lost Number was not a boss you had to defeat for the storyline, and it was possible to go through and not get either of them. I left Vincent there and came back to collect him a lot later on quite a few times. LadyStrange 18:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Huh? When does he ever fly? Granted, I've not played Dirge of Cerberus, but based on Advent Children and some scenes from FFVII, it just looks like he's uber agile. Able to jump really far and high, wrap himself up in the cloak and dissapear, etc. etc. Flight, though? 154.20.135.89 05:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh well, that question comes in because in FFVII when you first find Vincent and you about to leave, when he catches up with you he is actually flying down, haha. Also there was talk of telekenetic abilities because of the levataing the coffin lid.

For future reference, Vincent does some seemingly impossible acrobatic stunts in FFVII, and briefly leaves the ground when casting in combat. --Kizor 12:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone else think that since the release of Dirge that the Dirge section should be expanded on a little bit, maybe explain some of the mysteries that were answered in that game. Also in the biography section it reads like Hojo experimented on Vincent and gave him Chaos and the G Beast not Lucrecia. Does anyone object to this? J-Axe
Yea, i though Lucrecia put Chaos in him and it went wrong so she had to put the materia in him to calm chaos. Hojo gave him the ability to transform and change into monsters. in Advent children you can see he doent just change into monsters.

Would it kill people to be a little more careful when they write these things?  Cripes.  68.225.240.87 08:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

How about doing something about it and not just complaining on the talk page?—ウルタプ 00:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
yea, people should cheak their spilling 
lol

I removed the thing about Disney not wanting guns in their material because it's not necessarily true.  Look at the villian from Tarzan.  He primarily uses a rifle.  Additionally, most disney character don't use guns because they'd be an anarchronism in the setting of the movies in question.  Movies where the technology level is appropriate, guns can be found.  As my previous example, Tarzan, involves guns, so do other Disney movies, such as Pirates of the Caribbean.  So, I don't think Vincent having a gun is the issue.--Vercalos 07:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

It is a common fan idea that because Vincent was in some kind relationship with Lucrecia before she went to Hojo that Sephiroth is secretly Vincent's child. 
It debatable on both sides but a common idea in the fandom.
Should it be included? Maybe in trivia?

Vincent was rejected by Lucrecia, as mentioned in Dirge of Cerberus.  And in the games relating to him, every indication was made that Hojo was Sephiroth's biological father.--Vercalos 03:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
The ultimania guide says the bilogical father is Hojo.

Someone please help me fix this up. I want to seperate it into FFVII, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerebus sections.

This sounds like a very good idea. Unfortunately I'm notoriously unreliable. --Kizor 07:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

right he is immortal because of hojo not lucrecia. hojo give him a super body that could change into creatures (his limit break). lucrecia give him the power of chaos which resurrected him. Not make him immortal. Now that Chaos is dead he no longer has the power of chaos he is still immortal.

I suggest you take a look at the Compilation Ultimania translations for Vincent Valentine. Some of the points you mention about his character are off. For example, Hojo is not the one that endowed Vincent with his immortal body. It was Lucrecia. Hojo only made Vincent's body stronger.
There's more but that's one glaring contradiction right there.
http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?p=3231931#post3231931  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.76.60.163 (talk) 03:31, 15 December 2007 (UTC) 

It's not "our" article, you're perfectly able to fix it yourself.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Isn't Vincent named after Vincent Price? The vampire motif of the character and his appearance in the original Final Fantasy VII certainly give that impression.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.193.112.148 (talk) 02:09, 10 December 2009 (UTC) 

It is original research.Tintor2 (talk) 02:17, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
LOL, that's why I'm asking if anybody's ever heard that from any of the creators in a good source. *rolls eyes* --134.193.112.148 (talk) 07:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
The first question didn't look like that.Tintor2 (talk) 15:47, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

This article is well researched, but it needs a lot of work in the prose department. I got the ball rolling, but this is going to be a collaborative effort; I never played DoC, and FF7 isn't my favorite game in the series, so my knowledge of the plot details isn't great. —Deckiller (t-c-l) 14:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Good work. The prose is my weak point as I'm still studying English and the only thing I could to do the appearances section was rearrage them to be more out-of-universe and trimming.Tintor2 (talk) 15:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Your English is a lot better than my Spanish—I never would have thought you were a non-native speaker. —Deckiller (t-c-l) 15:28, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks.Tintor2 (talk) 15:59, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
THis article isn't even B-ranked. Should we rank it B before suggesting GA rank?Bread Ninja (talk) 16:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
It's good enough to be ranked "B" class, in my opinion. —Deckiller (t-c-l) 18:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, since that's settled. we don't have to worry on any delays other than prose.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:03, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Well there will always be other issues to resolve, such as new content found in new sources and formatting refs, but the prose is the main issue. —Deckiller (t-c-l) 19:11, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Where specifically? It doesn't seem that bad. sure a few little fixes here and there, but it doesn't look like the prose is 'that' bad.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:22, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
I'd suggest requesting a copy-edit at [1]. In the mean time, I'd like to get a CGI image of Vincent up. I have a source describing the development of a particular scene, so it should work. I'll work on it. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 22:35, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Human, right? --Niemti (talk) 07:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Also, Dirgeofcerberusgun.jpg should be replaced with something better quality, and actually showing the cape - like [2] [3] or [4] --Niemti (talk) 07:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Also also, LB thinks organizing the layout better is "lack of organization". --Niemti (talk) 08:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

It appears he was, though he became some kind of immortal. Also your images are good of the cape, but that's not the focus of the text. The text describes in depth the creation of the cloak in the film Advent Children, and the screenshot is from that film. It also has the gun prominently shown, so it does a lot with one image. If you find a higher resolution version of the SAME IMAGE, go ahead.  In terms of layout, you must admit the current layout is very sparse, but it has its benefits. Dividing up the info on this type of article can be very arbitrary. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:18, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
But the caption reads: "Valentines [sic] cape took many adjustments to perfect for Advent Children," while not even showing the cape. Also it;s basically the same cape (shredded version) as in the film. Layout: It absolutely even looks better this way.  --Niemti (talk) 16:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

But he's wearing it on his back, you can see it on his shoulders, and you see the gun prominently too. Lets try to look for images from advent children if you feel this one is not sufficient, see if any do a better job. In terms of layout, like I said it is very much personal preference; I've reviewed the layout guides, and they are vague in this point. The best step at this point if you want it another way is to talk on her user page about it. Judgesurreal777 (talk)
Ok I swapped the image for one slightly different, where the cape is fluttering in many complex shapes, like the article describes as "organic", and the straps are caught up in the breeze, it should be good for showing the cape. I did look for a more profile shot, but we may lose the gun in a different shot. It's hard to find a perfect shot, but I think we are close in terms of getting most of what we want. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Vincent was always wearing a cape on his shoulders, look at the infobox pic. It just wasn't shredded. There's no need for a good screenshot, just choose any promo image from the game (or the film, he had a triple barrel gun in the film already and it's basically the same visual design). And speaking of "visual design" - re-add this header, srsly. --Niemti (talk) 17:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Look at the screenshot, it is clearly shredded on the edges, and has a whispy look that must have been the focus of all that cgi work on the character. The image demonstrates three important things about the character; his redesigned gun, showing he's a protagonist, his cape and its organic, flowing quality that took so much effort in the move, and his more realistic appearance in Advent Children. I think we are done with issue because you haven't presented an image that beats this one. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:09, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Also I did recommend to you to stop reverting myself and Lucia, you need to talk about issues and not keep going back and forth on the article page. You do not own this article, even if you think you're right. We settle things on the talk page, with respect. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:12, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
No, I can't really see anything at this screenshot, even as I know exactly what and where to look for. There's really no reason to not replace it with some high-quality promo render instead of any kind of screenshot. And you need to "re-add this header, srsly" - Part Deux. --Niemti (talk) 23:45, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Really, change this image to just any promotional picture. --Niemti (talk) 07:26, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
And so I'm going top replace it. (Again.) --Niemti (talk) 08:55, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

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