# Talk:Vogel State Park

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I've expanded the article over the last several weeks. It now meets B class criteria. With some work it can become a Good Article. Majoreditor (talk) 03:03, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The article may soon meet GA-class criteria. Prior to GA nomination it needs the following:

A complete copyediting
Expansion of the lead
Verification that the article meets GA criteria for breadth - ie, there are no significant omissions.
Any thoughts? Majoreditor (talk) 01:52, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Note to GA reviewer: I will be on vacation until September 7. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 17:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Back from wikibreak, ready to work with reviewer. Majoreditor (talk) 04:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Vogel State Park/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Comments to follow jimfbleak (talk) 07:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Units - at least three don't have metric conversions. Volume goes from cubic feet to acre feet in one sentence - the latter is a very odd unit, best to give all the volumes in cubic feet. 52-foot isn't MoS 52 ft
Comment: The term acre foot is a commonly used term in the United States for measuring large-scale water storage (see wikilink). 
More Can't say I like are foot, not even familiar to me as a Brit. However, it's a US article, so fair enough. The linked article hyphenates as acre-foot, is there a reason for not doing so in this article?
Good suggestion. I will hyphenate and wikilink. For what it's worth, I, too, have never cared much for the concept of acre-foot. Majoreditor (talk) 14:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the acre-foot automated metric conversion won't display the hyphen I inserted. I could dispense with the automatic conversion, but it's my experience that a bot will replace plain old text with an autoconvert within a matter of days. I'm inclined to leave it as it is, but am open to suggestions. Your thoughts? Majoreditor (talk) 14:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

image captions shouldn't include article name  Done
More to come later jimfbleak (talk) 07:32, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Lead It became one of the first two parks in Georgia when it founded a state park system in 1931.[1] Much of the park was created by the Civilian Conservation Corps during the 1930s. First park? Second park? How did it become a state park before it was created by the CCC.? See below. I have changed the verb to "constructed"  Done
Third para, Also and additionally are redundant padding  Done
Description and history Why aren't Blairsville and Milwaukee linked - I don't know where they are?  Done
affords cool temperatures = is cool  Is there any connection between the temp and the popularity in summer, if so could run the sentences together? Good suggestion  Done
Vogel is Georgia's second oldest state park. ah, now we know  Done
The couple owned thousands of acres of land in north Georgia to harvest bark from oak and hemlock trees. better as The couple grew oak and hemlock trees on thousands of acres of land they owned in north Georgia. The bark from the trees was harvested and ....  I've honed the prose.   Done
In what sense were Fred and Augustus a couple - what was the relationship between the two men? They were brothers. I've now clarified that matter.  Done 
Facilities and activities Also at the park are a general store and Civilian Conservation Corps museum. The park also offers miniature golf. Don't need also, why not run these two sentences together?  Done
what's an RV? - a recreational vehicle, which includes campers and trailers. I have wikilinked the term RV to the appropriate article.  Done
Hiking What's organe? - Sorry, it should be "orange".  Done
para 2 Also...Also...
Annual Events - events should be lower case, any source for these? Now lowercase and just provided a citation.  Done
Why does Christmas get its own annual in addition to the one at the start?  Done
can you reassure me that there is logic to the capitalisation or not of each event? The capitalization and punctuation reflect the information found on  the park's website. Majoreditor (talk) 17:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)   Done
Wildlife and flora geology is minimal to say the least - I have no idea what the predominant rocks are, whether it's been glaciated, has any thing happened in the last 1.5 billion years? I've added information on the geology of the area. The area is rich in several varieties of metamorphic rocks.  Done
The new para is much better, but I'd be inclined to put it at the beginning of the section with the other geology bit.  Done
Canada, Blackburnian, Black-throated Blue, Black-throated Green and Chestnut-sided warblers. Also found are hawks, owls, woodpeckers, kinglets, thrushes, vireos, cuckoos, phoebes, chickadees, titmice, nuthatches, brown creepers, wrens, tanagers, grosbeaks, indigo buntings and red crossbills. Why are all but the warblers linked? I'd link them too. Since they are species, Warblers should be capitalised, as should the creeper, bunting and crossbill. I'm not clear from this which are breeding and which are migratory, so I'm also unclear why is of interest to birdwatchers.
Chickadee is a disamb page Thanks; I have redirected it to the correct page. Majoreditor (talk) 18:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC)  Done
white-tailed deer? I will capitalize and wikilink White-tailed deer. Majoreditor (talk) 17:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)  Done
I'll have another read and check refs and images later jimfbleak (talk) 10:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Notes Why is  NorthGeorgia.com. a reliable source I can't find anything in WP:RS which explicitly states that a source like NorthGeorgia.com is unreliable or should be expressly avoided. My experience is that it is as accurate as newspapers and guidebooks on matters such as state parks. However, I have added a second citation, the online edition of a newspaper; it's a reliable source. Majoreditor (talk) 17:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)   Done
Findlakes.com.com. - wouldn't load properly for me on FF3. Sorry, it should read "Findlakes.com". Funny, it's loading on Explorer.  Done
"/ Lake Trahlyta in Union County". Can the slash be removed? Certainly.  Done
References Homan appears not to be cited. While the book isn't cited, I read through it and used it to shape the article. It features a few pages on Vogel.
As "Further reading" perhaps?
Good idea.    Done
Alden or Alder (different from notes)? Alden is correct. Thanks for noticing.  Done
Nutt and Pfitzer ref details don't agree with ISBN given.   Done
My copy of Pfitzer's Hiking Georgia (3rd ed.) shows ISBN-10: 0-7627-3642-9. Its copyright is listed as 2000, 2006. Alternatively, it also lists ISSN-13: 978-0-7627-3642-3, which surpises me since this is clearly a monographic work. I've confirmed that the citation should be to page 132, which is the first of seven pages on Vogel. I also have an earlier edition which is copyright 1993, Falcon Press. Unfortunately I don't have ready access to OCLC to see if they have misclassified the LC Cataloging-in-Publication Data. 
I don't have a copy of Nutt's book with me, but think that I can find it again at my local camping store's book section. Majoreditor (talk) 21:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't mind whether the details are those given by clicking through on the ISBN, or whether the ISBNs are changed to those for the copies you have - it's just that they need to match up
Good news, they both match. I checked the ISBN numbers with the U.S. Library of Congress, which is the largest and most accurate source for U.S. cataloging information:
Here is the LC link for Nutt's book, verifying the ISBN.
Here is the LC link for Pfitzer's book, verifying the ISBN.
Images Both image licence pages lack a url, please add so that PD licence can be verified. Unusual for states to release images.
I got verbal permission from an DNR official on copyright release for the images when they wer efirst added to the article. I've been waiting for an e-mail to get it in writing. It hasn't come, so I'm going to remove the images from the article. I'll add my own images at some later point. Majoreditor (talk) 00:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)    Done

Thanks for the review comments. I will start to address the issues. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 16:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I will need to be (mostly) off wiki until this Saturday due to a death in the family. I'll continue to work through the comments at that time. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 21:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks fro letting me know, no rush jimfbleak (talk) 05:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I've added further responses to three of the sections above (geology, Homan, isbn) jimfbleak (talk) 06:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
(undent) We are not far off, really just the image licences. Although it's not mandatory to have an image at GA, if used they must be GFDL or PD (not fair use since a free image can be created). I've also removed the forced thumb size, since it overrides user preferences. jimfbleak (talk) 05:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, we're nearly there. The image license isssue is most important; I will have that addressed one way or another by Friday. I will take care of the other two outstanding issues (species and moving the geology material) within the next 48 hours. Thanks, Majoreditor (talk) 12:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
GA review (see here for criteria)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS): 
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.: 
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
Overall:
Pass/Fail: 
I think we're done!