# Talk:Tales of Symphonia

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tales of Symphonia/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: David Fuchs (talk · contribs) 16:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Starting this review. Feel free to ping me if I haven't added anything within the next day or so. Cheers, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 16:43, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Okey dokey, it's pretty close, just some minor issues:
Images:
File:Tales of Symphonia case cover.jpg could use a more detailed fair use rationale.
New rationale given.
Likewise, File:Tosbattle.jpg could use a little more specifics in the actual rationale, but I think it's defended well enough to meet WP:NFCC.
Replaced image with new rationale.
Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I meant that while I think the image met WP:NFCC, it needed a stronger rationale for why its purpose was included--for example, that it was a major point of praise from reviewers, etc. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 20:03, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
? Added "Critics praised the real-time battle system for being fast and accessible to players." to the captions. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 04:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
I meant to the actual image description page/FUR. See File:Halo reach-lnos.png for an example of what I'm talking about in fleshing it out. Anyhow, I've made a tweak or two and I think the prose is at a level commensurate with GA criteria, so I'm passing this. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 15:43, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Prose
" As with preceding games in the series, the world map can be traversed by foot, on Noishe, " -- I have no idea what Noishe is without clicking away--for this and other specialized terms, try and make it comprehensible without relying on the links (as in the same sentence, you preface "Rheairds" with "flying vehicles".) "Grade" likewise gets thrown out with no explanation so I initially thought it was a character, then a grammar issue, then I figured it was currency. I'd double-check the entire gameplay and plot sections for this issue.
"... on the party's quadrupedal pet Noishe"."... currency known as Grade".
References are formatted kind of oddly, but are consistent. I spot-checked a few random statements throughout and there weren't factual issues.
--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 01:43, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Applied changes. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 06:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Great I'll take another look tonight. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 15:48, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Requested a third opinion from VG project. SunrodHercules insists the sentence in the lead "As their journey progresses, they learn that saving Sylvarant endangers Tethe'alla, a world parallel to their own." is fancruft and random crap strung together (dif). I, however, insist that the majority of the plot focuses on those two worlds and is necessary for the lead, since the "They journey to save the world" is too generic. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 01:15, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I see no problem with it. It's not cruft, there needs to be a story part represented in the lead, it's well worded, and it's vague enough that it hardly spoils much. I mean, you learn that much in a typical preview/review from a video game website. Sergecross73 msg me  01:28, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
"As their journey progresses, they learn that saving Sylvarant endangers Tethe'alla, a world parallel to their own." where it is placed, does not make any sense. It's also not what the majority of the games plot is about, if anything one could argue the last third. Not that it fixes the actual issue, here is the whole statement, "The game takes place in a fictional world called Sylvarant and follows Lloyd Irving. Lloyd accompanies his childhood friend, Colette Brunel, who is destined to go on a journey to save their world. As their journey progresses, they learn that saving Sylvarant endangers Tethe'alla, a world parallel to their own. The game's central theme is Kimi to Hibiki au RPG (君と響きあうRPG?, lit. "To Resonate With You RPG").[3]" It's extra spoiler for no reason and doesn't provide any helpful description that one would consider to be adequate. I may as well add "They often run into wonderchef along the way" to the end because it just seems like a list of events instead of being necessary for the lead as DragonZero is claiming. Not to mention, that piece of plot is also in the plot section of the article. BTW, I don't appreciate that false "fancruft" you added, but It does sound like random crap put together next to each other when you actually read the sentence out loud.  I don't think we should be inconsistent for the sake of preventing the "generic" virus. SunrodHercules (talk) 01:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Serge, there is a story part represented in the lead. Look at the whole entire paragraph. It almost like a randomly strung list and it makes no sense to have it there. SunrodHercules (talk) 01:40, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Guess generic wasn't the right word, imprecise then. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 01:48, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
You know what, it's cool man, I was in a bad mood about something else before editing the page, and then you said I called it fancruft and I skipped a never for a second. It's not that big of a deal. I'll come back to it later, it actually just needs to be edited rather than removed. Serge already gave the third opinion, so we'll leave it at that. No hard feelings. SunrodHercules (talk) 01:51, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I think it's unwise to include plot-changing information in the lead, unless it's well-known like <spoiler>Vader being Luke's father</spoiler>. It's reasonable for players to expect to visit articles to learn about games' basic information and not have anything spoiled before the clearly marked Plot section. Tezero (talk) 03:06, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
I edited the lead in the same vain as Tales of Graces, which reveals a timeskip and a character's death, but excludes the surprise the character is an alien. My focus was to include what the protagonists goal for the majority of the game is. The two world deal was introduced pretty early on, and felt necessary to have in the lead. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 03:25, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It actually was nt introduced early on. But what should be done if you really want to keep it there, is edit the sentence so the paragraph does not read like a list and separate the sentence talking about the games theme song. SunrodHercules (talk) 17:14, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Alright SunrodHercules, DragonZero, Tezero, and Sergecross73. We have a 2:2 so we are still in a stalemate. What should we do here? SunrodHercules (talk) 22:39, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Please read WP:NOCONSENSUS. Unless there's consensus to change, no change is made. This discussion has only been going for about a day, so probably just wait for more to comment. Sergecross73 msg me  22:48, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
The fact that there are two worlds was introduced in less than 1/4 of the game, 1/2 of the first disc, and was even mentioned in reviews (1 and 2). This can be used with Tezero's argument about common spoiler. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 22:57, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I was driving at too... Sergecross73 msg me  23:42, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

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