# Talk:Dario Franchitti

I have a few pics that I took at Indy this month, and donated a couple of them to the cause.  Let me know if you'd like some more Indy / IRL pics.  I also did a little bit of editing. Twohlford 20:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Just needs wikilinks added for F.Vauxhall and a few other series. I'll probably get around to it, just not tonight. Guroadrunner 06:11, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
-
Dario is a true champ for dedicating his 2002 win in Vancouver to Greg Moore.

I'm not seeing it, much. Enlighten me. --Chr.K. 05:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

MIA, SUR, LBH, NAZ, RIO, GAT, MIL, DET, POR, CLE, TOR, MIC, MDO, ROA, VAN, LAG, FON, ... ??? —Twigboy 03:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Don't know about any confusion - maybe there's some variation in the abbreviations used across the series.  Not sure what Twigboy's question is but those abbreviations above stand for (respectively) Miami, Surfer's Paradise, Long Beach, Nazareth, Rio de Janeiro, Gateway (Illinois), Milwaukee, Detroit, Portland, Cleveland, Toronto, Michigan, Mid-Ohio, Road America, Vancouver, Laguna Seca, Fontana Jsydave 08:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
My question is, how is the reader supposed to know that?—Twigboy 17:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Link them? More code and might get a little messy, but it would enable a reader to click for understanding. I don't think there's room in the table to give full names. 4u1e 11:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Franchitti is from Scotland, which is an administrative subdivision of the United Kingdom, in the same way that US States are subdivisions of the US.  If you are going to list his nationality as Scotland, then you should list Sam Hornish's nationality as Ohio.  --rogerd 23:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The statement that Scotland is a subdivision of the UK in the same way that US states are subdivisions of the US is wrong. Even the official website of the UK PM recognises this, referrring to the UK as a union of countries. Some research before making sweeping statements would be good. Lurker (said · done) 09:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Agree with lurker, your statement makes no sense. Mbr1983 (talk) 20:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Your statement is ill-informed and absurd. I'd insult you but I can't. --Arrows98 (talk) 12:46, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Some research on Wikipedia guidelines before making sweeping statements would be good.  While Rogerd's argument that Ohio is analagous to Scotland is incorrect, it is still the case that Franchitti should be listed as British in his infobox.  His Scottish residency can be mentioned in the article itself. Chuck (talk) 20:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Sorry but having looked into this deeper I must conclude that this rule is inconsistently applied and therefore useless. If this must be applied to all infoboxes, then why is it that snooker players (look at Terry Griffiths/Ronnie O'Sullivan/Dennis Taylor for example are allowed their 'non-sovereign flags'? Same with golfers, examples Colin Montgomerie and Nick Faldo. Either apply this consistently or scrap it. (Good luck with changing all them to British, BTW!)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.31.97.129 (talk) 21:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC) 

Of course it's inconsistently applied.  Every rule on Wikipedia is inconsistently applied.  That doesn't make the rule useless, it just makes it an ideal to be strived for.  Would you likewise argue that since laws against murder have failed to eliminate murder entirely, such laws are useless? And when you say "either apply this consistently or scrap it," whom are you addressing? Chuck (talk) 00:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
No - unlike wikipedia, laws against murder, or against anything for that matter, are not subject to change by anybody. I'm addressing whoever makes these rules - I am going to change the snooker player nationalites to British, I'd bet a pound to a penny someone will revert it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.31.97.129 (talk) 11:19, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Snooker's governing body regards England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as four different nationalities for the purposes of players' nationalities. The snooker articles on Wikipedia reflect this. Armbrust (talk) 12:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
And the nationalties of these drivers are also given as 'England' or 'Scotland' when they're shown on TV. I ask again, what consistency?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.31.97.129 (talk) 13:27, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
"Whoever makes the rules" is us.  Me.  And you.  And tens of thousands of other interested people. If you're legitimately interested in how policies and guidelines are established, see WP:PG#Life_cycle. Armbrust's point is that the governing body of snooker lists England, etc. as player nationalities.  ABC Sports or Versus or whatever television network the IRL race is appearing on this week is not the governing body of the IRL.  That said, if you want to make the case that WP:MOSICON#Use_of_flags_for_non-sovereign_states_and_nations doesn't make an exception for sports' governing bodies and thus snooker players should be identified by the UK flag, I wouldn't disagree with you, but that's between you and the editors of the articles about snooker players; I don't care enough about those articles to get involved in that debate.  (But if that's what you want to do, you might bring it up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker where it appears to have been discussed before, rather than just single-handedly making the change.) Chuck (talk) 21:07, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Hearts and Hibs are not is Local Football teams.  Edinburgh and Glasgow are about the same distance apart, and even thenLivingston FC, Motherwell FC and Falkirk FC are all closer to whitburn, so its easier and cleaner just to say in supports Celtic. Mbr1983 (talk) 20:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

removed bathgate born, as bathgate does not have a hospital, he was born in  Bangour Hospital, which is outside of Broxburn.

In the early career section,this is the opening sentence- While attending Stewart's Melville College in Edinburgh, Franchitti became interested in karting. Allan McNish credited a large part of the start given to himself, Franchitti and David Coulthard as being down to David Leslie senior and junior.
I' don't get it, what does Allan McNish credited a large part of the start given to himself, Franchitti and David Coulthard as being down to David Leslie senior and junior mean?--98.87.55.207 (talk) 20:53, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

There is an edit war brewing, if not actually underway, over the initial description of Dario Franchitti. He is currently described as:

a Scottish racing driver
and there is an attempt to get this changed to:

a retired Scottish racing driver.
The problem with the latter is that it is an awkward triple intersection of retired, Scottish and racing driver. Instead of trying to squeeze three describers into the one place, break it up into two sentences. Franchitti is either a Scottish racing driver or a retired racing driver. To get the third describer in use either:

a Scottish racing driver who has retired
or:

a retired racing driver from Scotland.
So what is the most important attribute to describe Dario Franchitti? Scottish, racing driver or retired? Fairly obviously it is racing driver as it his efforts at being a racing driver that makes him notable and worthy of a wikipedia article, not his recent retirement or the location of his birth.
What is his second most important describer? Being Scottish or having retired from the sport? Or is it something else, like his multiple Indycar titles?
Should he be described as:

a Scottish racing driver who has retired
a retired racing driver from Scotland.
or:

a four-time IndyCar series winning racing driver.
--Falcadore (talk) 01:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I should note that in the past I attempted to use "a retired Fooian racing driver" on several articles, and was reverted each time with rather strong language about how one could not retire from being a Fooian. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:55, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Rather than focus on that element, I'm trying to improve the language. The triple intersection actually goes to the essence of "retired Fooian racing driver". Does retired refer to Fooian, racing driver or both? Instead of broaching that argument - make the language clearer by removing the triple intersection then you don't need to touch on retiring from being Fooian. --Falcadore (talk) 02:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
In the phrase "retired Scottish racing driver", there is no ambiguity and no doubt over what "retired" refers to.  Obviously, one cannot retire from a nationality, and the phrasing does not imply that you can.  To see many, many examples in the English language literature, see [1], [2], [3], etc etc etc for whatever nationality you like.  Whoever reverted you with strong language was wrong, Bushranger, just as you are wrong to then propagate this misguided "correction".  200.30.223.19 (talk) 11:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Missing the point, it's not about ambiguity, it's about better writing. You're trying to cram three seperate facts into the shortest possible space. Sometimes it is just better to spread the information out a bit, rather than carry too much information in a very short space - hence the options I presented to you above. Do you have a preference?
You can take these things too far, Scottish-American retired Indycar dark-haired California-based cousin of a Formula One driver, twice removed on his mother's side with pike and a 4 from the East German judge. --Falcadore (talk) 11:55, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
If you have a Scottish racing driver who has retired, "retired Scottish racing driver" is the best way to write that.  There is no "cramming" of "too much information".  There is just straightforward terse clarity.  Writing things in the best way possible is my preference. 200.30.223.19 (talk) 12:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Being Scottish is hardly a defining characteristic is it though? --Falcadore (talk) 12:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
It's no longer clear to me what you don't like about the phrase "retired Scottish racing driver".  If you've switched from thinking the reference of "retired" is unclear to thinking that "Scottish" is unnecessary, then I think you're just being awkward for the sake of it. 200.30.223.19 (talk) 13:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Dario Franchitti. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131110013728/http://www.indycar.com:80/News/2013/11/11-9-Moving-up-the-all-time-list to http://www.indycar.com/News/2013/11/11-9-Moving-up-the-all-time-list
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100323214419/http://qosfc.com/HeadlineNews/ViewFullStory/tabid/151/selectmoduleid/498/ArticleID/842/reftab/36/Default.aspx to http://qosfc.com/HeadlineNews/ViewFullStory/tabid/151/selectmoduleid/498/ArticleID/842/reftab/36/Default.aspx
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.gpmag.com/ns/ns10978.html
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071114185034/http://www.indycar.com:80/news/story.php?story_id=7992 to http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=7992
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141217040454/http://bigstory.ap.org/article/doctors-tell-franchitti-he-can-no-longer-race to http://bigstory.ap.org/article/doctors-tell-franchitti-he-can-no-longer-race
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110724095829/http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/alms-franchitti-rejoins-highcroft-for-petit-le-mans/alms-franchitti-rejoins-highcroft-for-petit-le-mans to http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/alms-franchitti-rejoins-highcroft-for-petit-le-mans/alms-franchitti-rejoins-highcroft-for-petit-le-mans
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:33, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Dario Franchitti. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.indycar.com/News/2013/11/11-9-Moving-up-the-all-time-list
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=7992
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080829120418/http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1150/releases/3961 to http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1150/releases/3961
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110208010314/http://www.indycar.com/drivers/show/55-izod-indycar-series/3636-dario-franchitti/ to http://www.indycar.com/drivers/show/55-izod-indycar-series/3636-dario-franchitti/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:57, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Dario Franchitti. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131203081738/http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/motorsports-factbox-franchitti-announces-retirement-213926066--spt.html to http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/motorsports-factbox-franchitti-announces-retirement-213926066--spt.html
Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.cbssports.com/autoracing/story/8651402/1
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071012034441/http://www.speedtv.com/articles/nascar/craftsman/40909/ to http://www.speedtv.com/articles/nascar/craftsman/40909/
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120322131417/http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/history/44283/ to http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/history/44283/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:03, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Dario Franchitti. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added {{dead link}} tag to http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/motorsport/The-west-of-Lothian-question.4769123.jp
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110724044601/http://www.thegreatest33.com/default.aspx to http://thegreatest33.com/default.aspx
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:10, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

His family are not from Cassino - though that is probably the nearest big town. They're from a little village called Santa Maria Oliveto which is about 40 miles away. The extended family emigrated to the UK at the turn of the 19th century and there are branches in Sheffield, Scotland and Nottinghamshire (Retford). Cheers.SandrinaHatman (talk) 16:33, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

SandrinaHatman - Please provide a reliable source and then by all means, change the info accordingly. As it stands, that is the info I got from a reliable source. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 22:02, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
Hi Clear Looking Glass. I'm flagging this up because there's a big issue with the accuracy surrounding the Italian diaspora in the English historical record, including things such as names being anglicised and misspelled. What I'm saying can be cross-checked against primary sources such as b/d/m records. Maybe the journalist misheard during the interview (journalists are fallible) or Dario approximated. I know what is reported is wrong because I'm a Franchitti and he's a cousin a few times removed. There's another eg of this happening here: https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/13983601.the-italian-connection/ It's true that Cassino is the nearest large settlement an English person might have heard of; but it's not literally true they came from there. It's like saying someone is from York when they're from Filey. They're both in Yorkshire but the person doesn't live in York but near York. I suggest a simple fix to make it accurate would therefore be to change to "near Cassino" (or even "from the region of Cassino" or "from Isernia"). I hope this clarifies things and gives you some ideas about how to improve accuracy. I realise the mistake is not yours but the source's, but as you will appreciate this is how mistakes enter the historical record and it becomes harder and harder to unpick them.SandrinaHatman (talk) 09:50, 23 February 2021 (UTC)