# Talk:Group 4 element

Why do some elements in group 4 lose electrons to form compounds and some gain 4? How is that determined and is it consistent? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.13.150.16 (talk • contribs) .

You must be talking about the carbon group. The "Group 4" this article talks about has only metals, which never gain electrons in stable compounds. —Keenan Pepper 04:17, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
The group 4 elements are the second element in the 2 + 4 + 4 = 10 element transition metal elements, and are accordingly even numbered elements. They have respectively, 22Ti (5), 40Zr (5), and 72Hf (6) stable elements. The longest halflife element of 104Rf is noted to be  EO104Rf265 which would have 194 deuterons plus 57 extra neutrons and a stability value formula of A = 3Z - 47.WFPM (talk) 02:43, 22 May 2012 (UTC) The other 3 group 4 elements have a greater range of EE isotope stability than for EO isotope stability. You might accordingly expect that that the element 104Rf would have a five element group of measurably unstable isotopes with the central EE isotope being the most stable of the group.WFPM (talk) 17:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC) Since the creation process for these heavy nuclides involves the creation of a nuclide with a targeted Z number of accumulated deuterons plus an excess number of extra neutrons followed by the "relaxation" emission of a variable number of the excess neutrons, it might be expected that the residual nuclide would be that having the best dynamically balanced structure.WFPM (talk) 14:06, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

264Rf isn't known, but 263Rf has a half-life of 15 minutes. 265Rf has 2.5 min, 266Rf may have 10 h, 267Rf has 1.3 h and 268Rf may have between 1 and 6 h. (The half-lives for 266Rf and 268Rf are uncertain.) Double sharp (talk) 10:48, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
Well then we have the isotope EE104Rf266 as the longest halflife isotope with 104 deuterons + 58 extra neutrons and a stability trend number of a = 3Z - 46. And the logsecond halflife value of 10 hours (36000 seconds) is 4.56. This is not inconsistent with the extension of the A = 3Z- an even number stability trend lines into this A>100 element territory. And the theoretical maximum number of extra neutrons capable of being accumulated on the structure is 64. But 16 of the locations are at a corner and potentially unstable. So it's doubtful that many more than 58 extra neutrons will be accumulated in relatively stable even Even Z number isotopes. And the odd Z isotopes usually have a lower maximum stability number characteristic than the even Z isotopes.WFPM (talk) 15:54, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

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### Group 4 element