# Talk:Lore Maria Peschel-Gutzeit

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lore Maria Peschel-Gutzeit/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: A455bcd9 (talk · contribs) 11:41, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this review. – DreamRimmer (talk) 12:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar):  b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): 
Per MOS:CONTEXTLINK, many notions should be linked: family law, children's rights, gender equality, etc.
You use the term "family senate" but it is neither linked nor defined: what is it? What does "first female president of a family senate" even mean? In the body it's written "first female president of the senate". Also: was she the first female president of any senate in the history of Germany or of the senate of Hamburg? What does it mean to be "president" of a Senate btw?
In 1972, Peschel-Gutzeit became a family judge at the Hanseatic Higher Regional Court in Hamburg (Hanseatisches Oberlandesgericht, OLG Hamburg), where she became the first woman to chair a family senate in 1984. – DreamRimmer (talk) 13:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
OK, but what is a "family senate"? The term "senate" does not appear in Hanseatisches Oberlandesgericht. You need to define it. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:16, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Family senate means division of family related matters in regional court. The term Senat (senate) in higher courts of appeal refers to the "bench" in its broader metonymy meaning, describing members of the judiciary collectively (usually five judges), often occupied with a particular subject-matter jurisdiction. However, the judges are not called "senators". The German term Strafsenat (literally "Penal Senate") in a German court translates to Bench of penal-law jurisdiction and Zivilsenat (literally "Civil Senate") to Bench of private-law jurisdiction.  – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:21, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Please add this to the article. Can be as a footnote if you prefer ({{efn}}). It is indeed very confusing for the reader as I now understand that "Senate" can mean "Judicial bench" or "Government" depending on the context. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
The term "senate" in the context of the Hanseatisches Oberlandesgericht refers to a division or chamber within the Higher Regional Court (Oberlandesgericht) that handles specific legal matters or cases. I have added (government) in bracket for government post.  – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
This is still super confusing. I would suggest a footnote {{efn|name=senate|The term {{lang|de|Senat}} (senate) can refer to the [[Bench (metonymy)|bench]] in higher [[Court of appeal|courts of appeal]] or to the executive branch in Bundesländer which form a City State (Berlin, Bremen and Hamburg).}} a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:44, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
On the other hand, you linked Federal Ministry of Justice (Germany) but if I understand correctly she was not Federal Minister but Senator for Justice in Hamburg and Berlin? (so the term "Minister of Justice" should probably not be used in the body either)
In the body, you could also add links to articles like 2001 Hamburg state election, parental custody, Second State Examination in Law, State of Rhineland-Palatinate, etc.
fixed all, added a note. – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:42, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, "pass". a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:49, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section):  b (inline citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism): 
I don't think mariatherezaalves.org is RS and in any case I cannot verify the statement it is supposed to back.
I have fixed the source and award name. – DreamRimmer (talk) 13:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Perfect, this is now a "pass" :) a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:13, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
What was the 1988 legislative proposal about?
What was the "PorNO campaign"?
What does "insisted on hearing the voices of children" mean?
She continued practicing law at her firm: there's no reference to her firm before, was she part of a larger firm? Or did she create her own firm? When?
I also don't get how she could alternate between political positions in Berlin and Hamburg: where did she live?
"Despite facing strong opposition": from whom?
fixed – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:05, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
How did you fix where she lived (between Berlin and Hamburg) and "Despite facing strong opposition"? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 15:31, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
She served as a senator in Hamburg from 1991 to 1993, followed by her tenure as a senator in Berlin from 1994 to 1997. Later, in 2001, she resumed her position as a senator in Hamburg. Following her roles in these senatorial positions, she lived in Berlin. Additionally, the article notes that she founded a law firm in Berlin and worked there until her death. – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
So does it mean she moved to Berlin for that? Or can she be senator in Berlin while living in Hamburg? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 15:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
She was in Berlin from 1994 to 1997, and again after her term as a senator in Hamburg in 2001, she returned to Berlin and resided there until her death. – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:48, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
May be worth adding that to "Personal life". And what about the strong opposition: from whom? How strong? For how long? etc. the more details the better. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 15:50, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
I believe the article contains sufficient information to grasp the concept, but I can include it if you prefer...? – DreamRimmer (talk) 15:55, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Which concept? The article just says Despite facing strong opposition If there was strong opposition then it should be a bit more documented. Otherwise it may be better to remove "Despite facing strong opposition," altogether. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Removed – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:17, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 
"she overcame wartime hardships" and "Despite political challenges" don't seem neutral, better to remove them?
fixed – DreamRimmer (talk) 14:26, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Perfect, another "pass". a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 14:39, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 

Overall:
Pass/Fail: 
In addition to the above remarks, there are parts that I don't understand. Who raised her? Did her biological father abandon her? Please clarify this section.
This is not mandatory, but you can also add links to pages that don't exist yet on the English Wikipedia with {{ill}}, I added an example with Senat Voscherau III. It would be useful for Regional Court of Hamburg, Deutscher Juristinnenbund, Diepgen III Senate), etc.
Her biological father didn't play a significant role in her life as he formally adopted her only after she reached adulthood. The name of her biological father is noted in the article. I have fixed the sentence. – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Pass, thanks for your contribution to Wikipedia and congrats for this GA! a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for such a thorough review. BTW, you can automate all GA work, such as archiving this review box and adding this to the GA directory, with this script. – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:32, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm a bit worried about using too many scripts though... a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Haha, K , Have a good day! – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

The English version says "Peschel-Gutzeit was born in Hamburg as the daughter of a teacher and a major general."  while the German version says "Peschel-Gutzeit wurde als Tochter eines aus Gera stammenden, promovierten Volkswirtes und einer Lehrerin in Hamburg geboren" (Peschel-Gutzeit was born in Hamburg as the daughter of a Gera-born economist with a doctorate and a teacher.)
The issue of the biological father (the economist) vs adoptive father (the general) was discussed at the German article in 2021 and was queried in the English GA review in 2023 where there was a response that seems inaccurate.  Confusion arises because the subject did not acknowledge her biological father and so many sources just give the adoptive father.  The German editors seem to have got to the bottom of this by consulting the official birth record.  That's not linked online but we need to address the issue here and it seems likely to be the most accurate source.
We could also use some clarity about her early upbringing.  Was her mother a single parent?  What name did she go by then?  Who exactly was the father and why the separation?
Andrew🐉(talk) 12:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Her mother's family also hailed from Hamburg, the impoverished merchant family Brüggmann, which suffered during World War I.- ? Hamburg is the impoverished merchant family? How about "Her mother came from the Brüggmann family, merchants from Hamburg, who lost their fortune during WWI" (if that's what you're trying to say - the fact I don't understand whether "impoverished" and "suffered" are related is a problem in itself!)
In her autobiography, she referred to her adoptive father, former Nazi General Hans Gutzeit,[3] as her biological father. However, he formally adopted her only after she reached adulthood.
why the However? I mean, he's not her biological father no matter when he adopted her, right?
Also, she lied in her autobiography? Are you sure this isn't a misphrasing, such as a mistranslation from the German of some different meaning of "biological"? I've got to say, a modern mainstream politician lying in order to claim to be a blood relative of a Nazi general seems an unusual claim, it would be easier to believe a modern mainstream politician lying in order to claim not to be a blood relative of a Nazi general.
She had a half-sister who was four years older from her mother's first marriage.
had? Doesn't any more? Clarify
"was four years older from her mother's first marriage" sounds awkward. How about "a half-sister, four years older, from her mother's first marriage"?
This is also awkwardly placed, since she had the half-sister since birth, but this is put after her being adopted at adulthood. I'd move it either before or after Peschel-Gutzeit's biological father didn't play a significant role in her life.
She served as the chairwoman of the German Association of Women Lawyers (Deutscher Juristinnenbund [de]) from 1977 to 1981 and joined the Social Democratic Party (SPD) in 1988.[6] Starting in 1972, she served as a family judge at the Hanseatic Higher Regional Court in Hamburg. In 1984, following some internal conflicts, she became the first woman appointed as the chair of a family senate. - Why 1977 then 1988 then 1972 then 1984? Why not put these events in chronological order?
Same for the next few bits - 1990, then 1988, then 1991 ?
In 1988, as part of Emma magazine's PorNO campaign, a legislative proposal aiming to establish a German law against pornography, developed in collaboration with Peschel-Gutzeit, was published; however, it did not get implemented.[8] Avoided the verb at the end putting should be, or like Yoda to sound we risk. This is the article about her, she should be the main actor in most of it. How about "...campaign, she developed a legislative proposal ... ; however ..." (see I'm not against all howevers on principle, just where they fit!)
Why does Voscherau III Senate have a redlink and [Wikidata] link but Diepgen III Senate in the very next sentence not?
Peschel-Gutzeit left office and retired from politics.[1] She implemented corresponding legislative proposals
How could she implement anything if she left office?
What does "corresponding" mean here?
Neue Juristische Wochenschrift. = needs italics, it's the name of a magazine
She advocated for joint parental custody and children's rights. - Weird place to make a paragraph break, right after another "She advocated" sentence. Is there a difference between the two advocacies?
In 2019, she founded the family and inheritance law firm ... In 2019, she was honored with the Marie Juchacz Women's Prize Wasn't the second event before the first? The sources are.
Her first marriage to a terminally ill colleague ended in 1958 - what?
Did she have other marriages to terminally ill colleagues? Desperately needs a pair of commas: "Her first marriage, to a terminally ill colleague, ended..."
Less flippantly, this needs more details, this is supposed to be a GA, you can't just throw it off like that. Yes, lots of people get married, and even marrying colleagues isn't that rare, in general we have some ideas why people get married, we can let that go. But not everyone gets married to terminally ill colleagues! That's actually kind of rare! Did she know he was terminally ill? How long were they married? Please expand.
Titled 'Naturally Equal,' Peschel-Gutzeit published her autobiography in 2012 - No, just no. "Peschel-Gutzeit published her autobiography, titled Naturally Equal, in 2012." Please.
Also a few details or at least reviews of the book would not go amiss; in fact in a GA I'd think they be required.
Autobiography written with Brüdgam, Nele-Marie (2013). Selbstverständlich gleichberechtigt: eine autobiographische Zeitgeschichte [Naturally Equal: Hoffmann and Campe] (in German) (2nd ed.). Hamburg: Hoffmann und Campe. Hoffmann and Campe is not part of the title, it's the publishing house; don't translate it as part of the title!
Copied from User:GRuban/DreamRimmer RFA. Thanks to GRuban for this. – DreamRimmer (talk) 17:18, 1 June 2024 (UTC)