# Talk:Mani Ratnam

Dear Editors! There has been a discussion on India Portal related to mentioning of caste of subjects. The point is that mentioning caste of people, who have nothing to do with their caste, is found to be unnecessary by few editors. Hence the caste of the subject person needs to be deleted from the biography. I am not deleting the caste as of now but am only posting this here so that the regular editors of this article are well aware of it beforehand and no edit-wars take place. For details of discussion held on the portal please refer Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#Mentioning_caste_of_Individuals. Your views if any are welcome there or even here.  And.... as the reasons of exclusion of caste pointed out were "irrelavant to notability of subject person", "privacy of the subject person", "inclusion of caste is like branding individuals", etc. other information included in the article which also fall under these cases will also be removed after discussions. Examples of it included religion, non-notable spouse's and children's and parents' information, previous occupation, lived in places, non-notability related educational qualification, etc.  Your views on this are also welcome here or at the India portal. -Animeshkulkarni (talk) 10:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Not here, please. There is a community discussion taking place at WT:INB and I would advise people to read the entire discussion before forming an opinion because the above summary is incorrect. Nothing more need be said here. - Sitush (talk) 01:55, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

In respect to the correction (or change) I am starting this discussion on "year" and "location born" of the person in the article. After coming across acceptable and valid sources I want to present them here and start the debate. Here you go, (1), (2), (3), (4), (5), (6). One thing I must say considering 1956 (june) that time all are referred to as Madras Province. So this should have overshadowed and hence Madurai should have been left behind (As used in the current source at infobox). Also I can see source 1, 5 and 6 shows year (1955), which again brings us to a different scene. But one thing for sure is from all these links here, he was born in Madurai, ie., Madras Province. Even if we assume, let's say 1955 (june) by those times the place is again called Madurai in Madras. So doubts on location is clear. Lastly coming to year, if you see big then, source 1, 5 and 6 are actually the film festival events which to my knowledge is the most accurate and reliable ones considering those facts should have been produced in accordance with the persons involved at the film festival event with their knowledge (what I mean is participants(Ratnam) must have been contacted during or before the event by the organizers(Film festivals) to release his/her Biography. So totally 3 film festival events conveys Year 1955. So I believe we can go with it trusting it fully along with the location of Madurai. ----Ungal Vettu Pillai (talk) 02:45, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mani Ratnam/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Secret of success (talk · contribs) 04:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Early life

The name "Iyer" is not mentioned in any of the sources.
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
"based in the Tamil film industry of Chennai, India." - Does it mean that Chennai has a specific Tamil industry?
Rephrased —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
"Mani Ratnam was born in Madurai, Tamil Nadu to Tamil Iyer parents." - Not verified by source.
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Could you specifically point out which source says that both his parents were Iyers? This one only says that his father was an Iyer, what about his mother? Secret of success (talk) 05:26, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I couldn't find any source. Rephrased the sentence. —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"Ratnam was introduced to film direction with the help of his brother, producer G. Venkateswaran" - Ditto
Removed since I can't find reliable sources —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
"Ratnam attended Vidya Mandir Senior Secondary School in Chennai, earned a degree in commerce from Vivekananda College, University of Madras" - Unsourced
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
"Venkateswaran committed suicide in 2003, reportedly because of financial problems." - The source says that he committed suicide and that he had financial problems, but it does not say that he enacted the former due to the latter. Also, this is irrelevant to the topic.
Added a new source from Hindu which supports the claim. I don't think its irrelevant since GV is a prominent figure in the Tamil film industry and the reason behind his death being connected with films. —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
There are two Manali's, one in HP and another in TN. The statement "G. Srinivasan, was a producer but died in an accident in Manali" specifies the TN one, but the source does not confirm it.
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
"They have a son named Nandhan. Charuhasan, his father-in-law, is a National Award-winning actor." - Unsourced
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
For a start, these issues need to be fixed. Secret of success (talk) 04:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing the article. Awaiting further comments from you. —Vensatry (Ping me) 16:12, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Comment
"Ratnam has two brothers..." This should be in past tense, "had". Both of them are dead. Also, "The former is a prominent personality who produced..." It should be in the past tense as well.--Dwaipayan (talk) 01:51, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

 Fixed. Thanks for pointing out this blunder. —Vensatry (Ping me) 03:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
"In 1988 Ratnam married Suhasini, the niece of Kamal Haasan and daughter of Charuhasan.": Source does not confirm the year of marriage.
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"Ratnam lives in Alwarpet, Chennai, where he runs Madras Talkies.": Source does not say that he runs Madras Talkies from his residence.
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Comment: Have cleaned references part. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 06:56, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
More issues

"Though it did not perform well at the box office, the film's score by Ilaiyaraaja became highly popular" - Unsourced
Removed info, couldn't find any source. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:15, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
"Its score by Ilaiyaraaja became a huge success upon release" - Ditto
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"The film elevated Ratnam's status as a director" - Ditto
 Done —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"Many Indian critics dubbed it" - Highly subjective "many"
Tweaked the info as "The plot of the film was loosely based on the 1972 American epic crime film, The Godfather." -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:15, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Added sources for the same. —Vensatry (Ping me) 14:39, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
"a Telugu film would mark a milestone of having directed films in all major South Indian languages. Thus he opted to make his next project, Geethanjali, in Telugu." - Unsourced
Removed as it is non-encyclopedic. —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"through the Chennai release" - what does that mean?
WTH that means :P Changed it to, "Ratnam maintained a momentum of making emotional stories of under-served people through the film..." -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:15, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
"It was about a friendship between a local don and a slum king, and earned both critical acclaim and commercial success upon release." - Unsourced
Removed, was irrelevant. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:34, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
"Thalapathi, based on the legend of Mahabharata, ran into trouble when news leaked that the character of Karna, portrayed by Rajinikanth,[30] would die in the end. The climax was altered to appease Rajinikanth's fan base.[33]" - Irrelevant to the topic
Its a bit relevant, as Ratnam had to change the climax just for Rajinikanth's fans. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:34, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Provide sources for that. The given ones do not say that Ratnam was involved in it. Secret of success (talk) 06:14, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

This is irrelevant to this article as this is only concerned about Mani Ratnam. It would be more relevant in the Rajinikanth and Thalapathi articles. —Vensatry (Ping me) 08:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
"Ratnam took a more light-hearted approach with his next film —Thiruda Thiruda. Scripted by Ram Gopal Varma, it explored the action and thriller genres, was a departure from Ratnam's previous style, and fared less well at the box office. In 1994, a retrospective of Ratnam's Tamil films was shown at the Toronto International Film Festival." - Unsourced
Added source for the last sentence. However, replaced the word "Tamil films" with only "films" as per the source. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 12:14, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
I believe the toronto film festival was sourced. I remember well that added the stuff from the source. Please check each and every source. —Vensatry (Ping me) 04:02, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Oops! Sorry and thanks for pointing out! -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 06:40, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Added a source for Thiruda Thiruda. —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"Ratnam produced and co-wrote his wife's directorial debut film, Indira, and the critical success Iruvar, his next film as director. Iruvar won the Best Film Award at the FEST film festival held in Belgrade." - Unsourced
Added a source for Belgrade Fest. —Vensatry (Ping me) 18:05, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
"Dil Se.. gained cult status just after it released" - These kind of things CANNOT be stated without a source.
Changed the info stating the film opened with well note among critics with a source. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:26, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Alaipaayuthey was acclaimed critically? Direct sources or some reviews?
"The Tamil version received critical acclaim in America, Europe and southern parts of India." - Unsourced
Tweaked the line, and added the source supporting the claim. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 11:56, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
"Unlike most of his contemporaries, Ratnam neither assisted in film-making nor worked as a cinematographer before entering films.[22]" - Repeated statement.
 Done: Removed. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 12:08, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
"Ratnam is well known as a director who strikes a balance between arthouse and commercial cinema. He has admitted that he makes each of his films by keeping the audience in mind." - WP:NPOV
"Ratnam has given a new dimension to the Tamil film industry" - Not encyclopedic at all
Changed it to "Ratnam was referred for bringing new dimension to the South Asian film industry..." Fine?
Dead links found and tagged.
Removed one dead link from Hindustan Times, and tweaked the info in ref to this. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 18:51, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
"The plot of the film was loosely based on the 1972 American epic crime film, The Godfather.[4] The film was based on the real-life story of underworld king Varadarajan Mudaliar,[27]" - So it is based on both? Not clear at all.
Secret of success (talk) 16:23, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Does it look good now. —Vensatry (Ping me) 08:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
I have struck out most of the comments above, if I feel that they have been addressed. I shall go through the article thoroughly once more, before deciding on whether to fail or pass it. As it stands, all major issues have been taken care of. Secret of success (talk) 06:27, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

As the article satisfies all points of the GA criteria, IMO, I have passed it. If someone feels that there are more issues left, don't hesitate to take it to a GA reassessment, but consider posting it on the talk page and waiting for response before doing so. Thanks. Secret of success (talk) 14:59, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Just a general quip in regard to the filmography - the film's which he has directed should possibly be listed separately from those he has produced/written. Not only are the films he has directed a different quality to those he has produced, they blur his real contribution to films (ie directing). Also Bloody Paki seems to have been dropped from production a long time ago, having never made it to the filming stage and Five Star is omitted from the table totally! Editor 2050 (talk) 12:16, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages. 
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion. 
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

His real name is Gopala Ratnam Subramaniam, meaning Ratnam is not a patrimony. So I think it should qualify as a surname, and referring to him as "Mani" instead of "Ratnam" may not sound formal, per WP:SURNAME. Moreover, in Conversations with Mani Ratnam, he is referred to as simply "Ratnam" for most of the book. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:16, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Media in the south mostly refer to him as 'Mani Ratnam' or simply 'Mani'. Ratnam is indeed his father's name. Most South Indians prefix 'patronyms' to their actual names (eg., Lakshmipathy Balaji, Ravichandran Ashwin). The guideline says 'However, where a person does not have a surname but a patronymic (like many Icelanders, some Mongols, and those historical persons who are known by names-and-patronymics instead of surnames) then the proper form of reference is usually the given name.' To be more precise, 'Iyer' qualifies more than 'Ratnam' as his surname. Hope this helps. —Vensatry  (Talk)  07:58, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Quoting Conversations with Mani Ratnam is really irrelevant here. The book is not even a biography. —Vensatry  (Talk)  07:59, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
I don't think you've read the book. It is a series of interviews between Baradwaj Rangan and him (I've met the former; though "Rangan" is not legally his surname, he professionally uses it as such), which go like "RANGAN: <quote>; RATNAM: <quote>". So Mani Ratnam, being the co-author of that book, would have approved being referred to by his last name. And to an extent, the book may not be a complete biography, but Mani Ratnam does talk at great lengths about his experiences in life in it. Kailash29792 (talk) 08:25, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
First of all let me tell you, the book is not a biography, but just a series of interviews: [1]. Technically, Mani Ratnam is not a co-author. May be it was your assumption, but we cannot base our arguments based on a single book. —Vensatry  (Talk)  08:41, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

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Cyphoidbomb, please take note of the writing style in this article. There are paragraphs that don't seem to follow an encyclopedic tone.PlutoniumBackToTheFuture (talk) 09:32, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

It would probably be more helpful if you went through the article and noted specific problems here on the talk page for other editors to process. I've added a few clarification requests to the lead, but I don't have time to go line-by-line on an article that doesn't particularly interest me. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:11, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
{ping|Cyphoidbomb|PlutoniumBackToTheFuture}} Not seeing anything too bad. We are allowed a little license to make the prose interesting. AIRcorn (talk) 19:07, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Cyphoidbomb, the content you added has been removed without proper explanation. I am restoring the 'BY WHOMs, s, Citation Needed etc that you had added to the article.PlutoniumBackToTheFuture (talk) 16:49, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

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