# Talk:Nazgûl

Does File:Nine Walkers vs Nine Riders.svg really add anything?  Also, how do "homogeneous, discordant" go together, and how are Sauron's puppets "intensely individualistic"? —Tamfang (talk) 05:39, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for discussing. All diagrams are required to be redundant to the text because they present the same information, but for many readers, "a picture is worth a thousand words", i.e. the visual presentation arrives by another channel and often makes clear in an instant what the thousand words just make muddy. One thing everybody can surely get from the diagram is the diversity of the Nine Walkers and the visible homogeneity of the Nine Riders, which I'd have thought enough on its own to justify the presentation. The (directly quoted) terms should not need me to explain them as the scholar quoted said them. However, "Homogeneous" means the Ringwraiths show little in the way of the variability that Gimli and Merry and the rest so obviously have; "Discordant" means they merely sow discord, negative results like fear and hatred. As for "intensely individualistic", we see the Witch-King's pride and ambition as he confronts Gandalf at the gates of Minas Tirith: but again, the words are directly quoted and it's not for me to double-guess them. For what it's worth I think the scholar is correct; if the result is surprising, that confrontation with the subject is a good result, as it is all implicit in Tolkien's text, and the scholar, via the diagram, has made the surprise immediate. Our job is as usual to present what is said in a form that allows readers to reflect upon the material, and it seems clear that it is working in exactly that way. I've extended the caption with some explanation and an attribution; and I've added a section of text with both primary and secondary sources that explain and set the diagram in context. I hope this makes things easier for you and other readers. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:37, 9 October 2024 (UTC)