# Talk:Eleanor Sophia Smith

This review is transcluded from Talk:Eleanor Sophia Smith/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Dr. Blofeld (talk · contribs) 14:11, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Lede
Mention it as "Chicago's Hull House" in the beginning and delink later on.
I've sorted this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:25, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Early
"She graduated from Cook County Normal School and was a pupil of Frances A. Root (voice) and Frederick Grant Gleason (composition)." -", where she was a pupil of.."? Or were Root and Gleason teachwrs later on?
I've changed this to read "She later graduated from Cook County Normal School, but continued to study music privately as a pupil of Frances A. Root (voice) and Frederick Grant Gleason (composition)". I delinked Frances Root, as I do not believe she is Fanny Crosby. Crosby was in New York. Frances A. Root was a soprano in Chicago who sang in the First Presbyterian Church Choir with Smith's father. Gleason taught at Chicago Conservatory, but there is no evidence that Smith went to school there. If Rosiestep has evidence that it was Fanny Crosby, we can relink, but the source does not indicate that to me. SusunW (talk) 16:44, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:52, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Career
The lede says choirmasters but the body says choirs. Did she observe the masters or the choirs or both? If both the lede should probably just say choirs.

 Done It is both. I changed it to choirs but moved the link to choirmasters to teaching. SusunW (talk) 17:06, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
"While in Berlin, she and friends discussed the benefits of teaching where students were cross-trained in both piano and voice, so that pianists were not overly technical and singers would gain an appreciation of general music techniques." -doesn't really make sense, do you mean something like : "While in Berlin, Smith and her friends discussed the benefits of teaching where students were cross-trained in both piano and voice, which would be advantageous to both pianists who were not overly technical and singers poorly educated in general music techniques".
I don't think that is what was meant. She thought pianists lost the lyrical qualities of music because they focused on the technique and that singers focused too much on presentation without understanding the technicalities. I changed it to "While in Berlin, she and friends discussed the benefits of teaching where students were cross-trained in both piano and voice, which would be advantageous to both. Such study would prevent pianists from losing the melodic focus and being overly technical and singers would gain technique rather than focusing solely on performance." SusunW (talk) 17:06, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
"She had also been writing hymns, many of which were translated into German during this period and had gained a reputation as a song writer by the early 1890s." -the hymns gained a reputation as a song writer? Try "Smith also wrote numerous hymns, gaining a reputation as a songwriter by the early 1890s.. Many of her works were translated into German during this period."
You should mention some of her works here if possible I think unless epxlored later on.

 Done I reworded and reworked the text to include the known pieces. The hymns may never have been published. SusunW (talk) 17:44, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Composition
"there is an eight measure rest for the children to make the motions of the turning blades" -seems a bit strange, can it be reworded a bit better or is this exactly what you mean?
 Done I linked rest which makes it more clear, I think. Basically there is no music so they can flap their arms about. Since the previous sentence stated the music paused, I did not want to be redundant. SusunW (talk) 17:44, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
"After Smith returned from Germany, " -when?
 Done She returned from Germany in 1890, but I think it would be confusing to state that here. The sentence actually read "After Smith returned from Germany, she published her second volume Songs for Little Children, Part 2 in 1894."  I have switched it around to read In 1894, after Smith returned from Germany..." SusunW (talk) 17:54, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Try to get into the habit of starting new paragraphs using the surname rather than "her". I've spotted this a lot in your work. I've changed one example but watch out for any others.

OK. SusunW (talk) 17:54, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
". The songs focused on the center of the music staff to make it easy for high-pitched children's voices to sing the works and most of the songs contained sixteen bars or less. " -not sure what you mean on "center of the music staff"
 Done I cannot seem to sign in to my Jstor account, so I just changed it to read "The songs focused on a limited range..." ...
Earlier you use numbers like 21 songs, but " twenty-fifth" anniversary is inconsistent.
 Done changed it to 25th. SusunW (talk) 18:17, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Avoid starting paragraphs with "She also".
"As early as 1901, she had written compositions for poems with social themes, such as the work she created for Morris Rosenfeld's poem "Sweat Shop".[17]
She also authored, "Song Pictures"; "Twelve Songs for Twelve Boys";[16] "The Golden Asp" (cantata); "Wedding Music" (No. 1 and No. 2); "Trolls' Holiday" (operetta); and "Twelve Songs".[1] Her works continued to be popular into the 1980s, attesting to the quality of their composition.[18]"
I would merge into one and write it as:
As early as 1901, Smith had written compositions for poems with social themes, such as the work she created for Morris Rosenfeld's poem "Sweat Shop". She also authored, "Song Pictures"; "Twelve Songs for Twelve Boys";[16] "The Golden Asp" (cantata); "Wedding Music" (No. 1 and No. 2); "Trolls' Holiday" (operetta); and "Twelve Songs".[1] Her works continued to be popular into the 1980s, attesting to the quality of their composition.[18]"

 Done I put the other works into the larger paragraph, since it speaks to a variety of works. Moving the single sentence about social issues into a paragraph with a diverse collection seemed as if the other works did not follow the direction of the lead sentence. SusunW (talk) 18:24, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Teaching
" Twenty-two" -ditto
 Done Changed the sentence around so that I am not starting it with a number. So instead of "Twenty-two Sunday concerts..." it now reads "Between November 1891 and April 1892, there were 22 Sunday concerts held at Hull House" SusunW (talk) 18:34, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
"In the late 1890s, Jane Addams and Smith had a disagreement over Hull House's Sunday concerts. " -new paragraph needed
 Done SusunW (talk) 18:38, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Jazz pianist Art Hodes
 Done and linked SusunW (talk) 18:38, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Personal
"For health reasons," -do we know what exactly?
No idea. Only reference to why she went to Michigan is in her paper archives and the obit is silent on cause of death. Also have zero clue why she was buried in Maryland. As far as I can tell, she had no ties to that state at all.SusunW (talk) 18:53, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
"Posthumously, Smith's papers were donated to the University of Illinois at Chicago.[28]" -do we know when? If possible it would be good to have a reflective quote from somebody here on her legacy and why they were donated etc to cap off the article.
Also no idea. The three donors "donated by Barbara Shipps, Jean Daugherty, and Don Wheat" don't seem to have any ties that I am aware of to the sources and I have no idea why or when they came into possession of her materials. However, I added a quote from Jane Addams as to her legacy. SusunW (talk) 18:53, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Sources
Any reason why you don't italicize newspaper names? I always do it myself.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:04, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

 Done Because I always input sources from a template and if the template were properly "coded", "formatted" or whatever the technical term is, it would automatically do that? I am a writer, not a programmer and find it tedious that I must input code to begin with. If the templates for books and journals properly add italics, why would it ever occur to one that the template for "news" would not italicize newspaper names? But, that being said, I have italicized them. SusunW (talk) 19:07, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Prose still a little rough in places but should be easy enough to pass GA once addressed, good effort!♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:05, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your review Dr. Blofeld. I hope I have addressed all of your concerns. Let me know if more clarification of editing is needed. SusunW (talk) 19:07, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
The Addams quote is a perfect addition to finish it.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality: 
B. MoS compliance: 
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources: 
B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary: 
C. No original research: 
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects: 
B. Focused: 
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias: 
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc: 
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales: 
B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions: 
Overall:
Pass or Fail: 
Good job!♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:18, 22 January 2016 (UTC)