# Talk:Likelike


### 1871 trip to New Zealand and Australia
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?end_date=01-01-1872&items_per_page=100&query=Cleghorn&snippet=true&start_date=15-06-1871


### Uncategorized
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/50190614/gardenias-didnt-bloom-for-2-years/

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/50191171/details-about-kaiulanis-birth-and/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/50191288/in-memoriam-written-and-played-by-wray/
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/50191829/body-in-state-thousands-view-the/

This is looking good. I think we can expand on the legacy and merge compositions together with legacy later and include a part about her influence on the song Aloha Oe. I will add details about funeral and burials soon. Also some expansion on the Cook Monument part as well. I like to split off the 1883 letter patent details with her role in her brother's coronation to make it have some more chronological cohesion. KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:56, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


### Death
Cleghorn, Archibald Scott. Letters of condolence and resolutions [on the death of Princess Likelike, wife of A.S. Cleghorn.].
Zambucka, Kristin (2005). Princess Kaiulani Of Hawaii. Kristin Zambucka Books. ISBN 978-1-56647-710-9.
p 17- Rumors "Likelike is being prayed to death by a powerful kahuna."
p 18 - Likelike's death
"Death of Princess Likelike and Death of Her Royal Highess Princess Likelike". The Pacific Commercial Advertiser. February 3, 1887. p. Image 2, cols 1-3. Retrieved May 3, 2020.
- Kalakaua had just left her home minutes before she died; Cleghorn and Liliuokalani were by her side when she died - as well as her staff and the medical people.
- Doctors names were Robert McKibbin, Trousseau (consultant). The family had intentions to change physicians to Tucker and Martin. Tucker told the newspaper that they had been called in (but she died before they got there) because McKibbin and Trousseau had decided it was a hopeless case.
- Cause of death was officially labeled "heart disease". One of their final exams, they thought she had a weak heart, a condition that had been previously undiagnosed.  Tucker assumed she had been given morphine, but he doesn't say when or by whom.
- Doctors repeat that what killed her was "lack of nourishment"
- Background info on her - her home was "famed for its hospitality" Foreign visitors stopped by, "in this way, she became extensively known throughout the world."  She planned to visit America and England, but never lived to make the trip(s).
- She had visited Australia and New Zealand with her husband. She visited San Francisco.
- Passing vague reference to her involvement in her own charities
- Her body was removed "last night at a late hour" by undertaker C. E. Williams
"Death of Princess Likelike". The Daily Herald. February 3, 1887. p. Image 2, col. 2. Retrieved May 3, 2020.
"With yesterday's setting sun sank out of earthly existence Her Royal Highness Princess Miriam Likelike."  She died at 5:15 p.m.  (note: refer back to the nighttime moving of Liliuokalani's body after her death) "The body was brought to the city early this morning, the hearse leaving Waikiki about a quarter past 12 and reaching the Palace at 2 o'clock."  "A catafalque had been prepared in the throne room, on which the body was placed and where it will lie in state for pubic view from 10 till 2 o'clock tomorrow."
"Lying in State". The Pacific Commercial Advertiser. February 4, 1887. p. 3, cols. 3-4. Retrieved May 3, 2020.
It appears that she was lying in state in an "apartment" in Iolani Palace, but not in a coffin, "... clad in a robe of spotless satin ... " what is described in great detail does not include a coffin. Attending here were Princess Poʻomaikelani, Kapiolani, Liliuokalani, Prime Minister WM Gibson, Luther Aholo, JS Walker, and others not specifically named. Crowded with mourners and wailers.  Services in the Throne Room, Rev. Alexander Mackintosh.  Public viewing 10:30 a.m. - 2:30 p.m. Various dignitaries and business leaders paid their condolences. The funeral procession began at 2 p.m.  At this point, it describes an elaborate coffin.
- "The Funeral" paragraph: "The date of the funeral has not been decided upon, but it is understood that it will take place about three or four weeks hence. In the meantime the body will be embalmed.".


### The Dead Princess
"The Dead Princess". The Hawaiian Gazette. March 1, 1887. p. 1, cols. 5-6; 8, col. 4. Retrieved May 3, 2020.
The funeral was not held until Sunday, Feb 27.  This is the details, order of procession, etc.
"The period that the body had rested in the throne room of the Palace ... services had been frequently performed by Bishop Willis and Rev. Macintosh ... their guards had waved the kahilis ceaselessly for nearly three weeks."  9:30 am morning prayers, a room full of family friends and dignitaries attending.  Prayers, chants, hymn singing,  After all that, the funeral service began.
It was noted by the Hawaiian Gazette newspaper that, "no hula had marred the solemnity, or grated upon Christian feeling"
Then  everybody who was even remotely involved, entered and were seated in order of importance. Then they finally had the service. People filed out, and the coffin was borne to the catafalque. The funeral procession began from that point. The coffin, catafalque and inscriptions described in detail. OF NOTE: "The funeral procession was very largely or nearly all composed of natives and half whites" They got to the mausoleum, but there wasn't room for everybody. More religious service and singing inside the mausoleum.  Apparently, there were photographers everywhere, and a sketch artist set up on the veranda.


#### Order of Procession
NOTE: Kalakaua was at the funeral, sitting beside the coffin with the family.  Unless I missed something here, he was not in the procession to the mausoleum,  nor does he seem to have been there with the family when they laid her to rest. — Maile  (talk) 21:26, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Undertaker
Police
Marshal of the Kingdom
St. Louis Band
St. Louis College
Royal School Cadets
Portuguese Band
Portuguese Societies
Honolulu Fire Department
Mechanic's Benefit Union
Improved Order of the Red Men
Ancient Order of Foresters
American Legion of Honor
Knights of Pythias
Geo. W. De Long Post, No. 45, G. A. R.
Independent Order of Odd Fellows
Reformatory School Band
Church of the Latter Day Saints
Ahahui Opiopio Puuwai Lokahi
Hale Nauā Society
Hui Hooulu a Hoola La Hui of Kalakaua I
Nihoa Society
Liliuokalani Mutual Benefit Society
Second Division Liliuokalani Educational Society
First Division Liliuokalani Educational Society
Attending physicians
Konohikis of Crown Lands  of Crown Lands
Konohikis of Private Lands of His Majesty
Konohikis of Private Lands of Her Royal Highness Princess Liliuokalani
Konohikis of Private Lands of Her Late Royal Highess
Royal Hawaiian Band
Honolulu Rifles
Māmalahoa Guards
Queen's Own
King's Own
Prince's Own
King's Guards
Servants of Her Royal Highness, Princess Liliuokalani
The King's Household Servants
Servants of Her Late Royal Highness
Clergy of the Roman Catholic Church
Herman Koeckemann, Monseigneur the Right Reverend Bishop of Olba, Vicar Apostolic of the Hawaiian Islands
Choir - Kawaihau Club
The Clergy of Anglican Church
The Right Reverend the Bishop of Honolulu
Alii bearing Decorations and Jewels of Her late Royal Highness
Alii bearing Coronet
The catafalque bearing Princess Likelike's coffin, accompanied by kahili bearers and cavalry escort on both sides
Chief Mourners following the catafalque
Her Royal Highness Liliuokalani and Major General Dominis
Carriage of Her Majesty
Her Royal Highness Princess Poʻomaikelani
The Chancellor
Cabinet Ministers
Diplomatic Corps
President of the Legislative Assembly
Governors of the islands
Nobles
Privy Councilors
Representatives
Counselor Corps
Collector General of Customs
Postmaster General
Sheriffs of the Islands
Clerks of the government departments
Custom House officers
Police Force


### Images
See Likelike lying in state - she was not in a coffin.  You can very plainly see her head and face in this image. — Maile  (talk) 13:45, 5 May 2020 (UTC)


### Like Like Drive In restaurant
I removed the mention of Like Like Drive Inn, back in February 2020 1.  Please do not restore it.  The restaurant had nothing to do with Princess Likelike, and was not even spelled the same. The name was two words, not one.  In fact, locals pronounced it as the English word Like, repeated twice. The original owner was a Japanese man named James Nako who mistook the phrase for "small gathering place."2. — Maile  (talk) 11:18, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


### Early life section - hanai
@KAVEBEAR: please clarify the below part of the Early life section. It is unclear how many times she was hanai.  And there does seem to be some repetition of the definition of hanai. — Maile  (talk) 14:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

This is one of the part that is shrouded in the mystery. Likelike’s hanai parents are never specified except in Amalu’s genealogical account. It is just known she was raised on Hawaii. KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:07, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


### Marriage to Archibald Scott Cleghorn section
"She had a reputation of being a kindly, gracious hostess in almost every country of Europe and almost every state of the union." Seems like a pretty wide statement, unsourced. Had she traveled that widely in Europe, and visited most of the US mainland? Maybe leave this out, and just  expand the travel section later. — Maile  (talk) 19:05, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

That part is problematic and I removed part of it for now. I suspect it was added as bad narrative prose. There is source that she was a gracious hostess and that's not controversial. KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:50, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


### Public figure
Two questions:
1) What is the significance of her granting the land around the Cook Monument at Kealakekua Bay to the United Kingdom?  Was it just a ceremonial event, or did the UK own that piece of land ... and if so, for how long?

 Fixed — Maile  (talk) 18:51, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
2) Who cares? As opposed to what? - American Protestant missionary Lorenzo Lyons in attendance. He noted, "She appears well."
— Maile  (talk) 20:11, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Removed 2. #1 seems quite significant in context of the rest of her seemingly private life (which is where a lot of the holes are). I think the UK still owns that small square of land. Need to expand a bit more. KAVEBEAR (talk) 22:01, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

@KAVEBEAR: I leave it up to you to nominate this at GA.  Also, I've decided to leave the details of who was in the funeral procession on this talk page.  Putting the list in the article would probably give undue weight to that one section.  But up to you, if you decide otherwise. — Maile  (talk) 21:20, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

On second thought, reading your comment above, I think we still need to expand the legacy part. — Maile  (talk) 21:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
@Maile66: I think it's decent for a GA review. What do you think? I am going to nominate it but definitely still can keep on expanding if there is more forthcoming information. Likelike was definitely the royal four with the least amount of surviving information about. KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:40, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
@KAVEBEAR: I say we go for it.  The article looks good to me.  In researching this, I have been seriously impressed with the kind spirit and giving, benign nature of this woman. She either inherited that in her gene pool, or she was raised in an incredible environment. — Maile  (talk) 20:44, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Where should we include some information on her daughter Kaiulani's final fate? Would it make sense to add it to legacy. I like to add an image of her daughter somewhere too. KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:48, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
I think the legacy part would be OK.  Or even after the sentence under the burial where it mentions where Kaiulani is interred.  BTW, have you clicked on that image of her lying in state?  Look way over to the left, and I think that might be Kalakaua standing there.  The man next to him also looks really familiar, but I can't think where I've seen that face before. — Maile  (talk) 21:52, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Likelike/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: CaroleHenson (talk · contribs) 22:15, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello again KAVEBEAR, I will review by section, and then assess the article against the GA criteria. I am looking forward to this review. Likelike seems incredible.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:15, 9 May 2020 (UTC)


### GA criteria
#### Comments
The article is well-written. There are a couple of suggestions for tweaks to the article. (1a)
The article conforms to MOS guidelines. (1b)
Content is properly cited to reliable sources, there is no evidence of original research. (2a, 2b, 2c)
The copyvio report only shows source info that is both in the article and the source. (2d)
It covers the majors aspects, without going into too much detail. For future reference, if possible, it would be nice to have a little more info about her time as a governor, why she was asked to leave, and a bit more info about why she was so revered. (3a, 3b)
The article is neutral and is stable right now. Based on the degree of inflexibility to find compromise solutions / wording, I wonder how it will be when someone other that the two recent editors (who absolutely have done a great job!) want to make a change. See Wikipedia:Ownership of content. (4, 5)
The images are properly licensed, relevant, and had good captions. I added the husband's name and a link to one caption.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:31, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I am done and will put the article on hold.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:31, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

@CaroleHenson and Maile66: Addressed all comments. KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:54, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
Excellent, thanks! I will take a look.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:00, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
I am going to take a break and come back to this tomorrow - because tomorrow is always a new day always has a possibility of turning over a new leaf and new attitude (and I am including myself in that transformational possibility)!–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
KAVEBEAR, Thanks so much for your edits / great solutions based upon my comments — and new edits. The article looks great! There is just one open question about a citation in the New edits section... and I gave you a diff to some minor edits that I made. I highlighted recent comments in purple to make them easier to find.–CaroleHenson (talk) 09:41, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Excellent, the article passes as a good article!–CaroleHenson (talk) 10:11, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Elizabeth Likelike Kekaeikapuokalani Coney Renjes (1866–1952)
Clarissa (Clara) Piilani Amoy Coney Monsarrat (1869–1911)
Elizabeth Keawepoʻoʻole Sumner

@KAVEBEAR: I do not believe the image used in that section is Likelike.  For one thing, it doesn't look anything her, and the copyright is 12 years after she died.  Please see Frank Davey. He left England in 1880 and worked in Paris and New York before working 10 years in California. After California, he worked throughout Asia before arriving in Hawaii.  The time frame doesn't fit, ,and it does not look like Likelike. — Maile  (talk) 16:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

It’s not, it’s her daughter Kaʻiulani and labeled as such. Had to find a place for an image of her daughter and section contains references to Ainahau song as well.KAVEBEAR (talk) 17:04, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

An 1870 blurb in the Pacific Commercial Advertiser is used to verify the 1875 birth of Likelike's daughter. Miniapolis 00:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Cleghorn filed for Hawaiian naturalization on August 31, 1870 - week before the wedding. [6] Laws were possibly still in place requiring anyone who marry a Hawaiian woman to hold Hawaiian citizenship. KAVEBEAR (talk) 01:57, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

{{cite news |title=LikeLike's 100th birthday celebration |url=https://www.newspapers.com/clip/54481966/likelikes-101st-birthday-celebration/ |work=Honolulu Star-Bulletin |date=January 10, 1952
Just ran across this.  Nice celebration. — Maile  (talk) 22:51, 30 June 2020 (UTC)