# Talk:Girlschool

The version of this page posted on 30 January 2005 appears to be a copy of http://www.girlschool.co.uk/biography.htm which had a modification date of 01 January 2005 when I looked at it on 07 December 2005.  Only minor edits have taken place since.  Is this a copyright violation? Drallim 09:39, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Should the tone of this entire article really be in the past tense?  I saw this band in Cambridge just this past November (2005) with Motörhead and In Flames.

I have now given this band the article they deserve! I welcome the input of others to enhance it further.
Headshaker 08:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Nice job! I'd be happy to add details of albums subsequent to "Play Dirty" if someone else could create the template pages for me. The pages for the first four albums are pretty informative now.  86.129.10.125 (talk) 04:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC) Alister, UK

Could some brave soul convert the list into a chronological table? --kingboyk 22:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I looked at the state of this article when it was tagged as resembling a fan site and containing information inappropriate for an encyclopedia. It didn't differ much from what it looks like now.
I disagree with those tags. Everything in the article are pieces of information I'd like to find if I looked something up in an encyclopedia. There's really not much excessive praise. That Kelly Johnson "battled" cancer may seem more heroic than simply dying from it, but it's quite usual to use such phrases when speaking about illness. Does someone else have opinions on the matter? I noticed that the tags have been placed there by an anonymous user who made a handful of contributions during two days.
I'd like to remove those tags in a few months if noone objects.--Odd M. Nilsen (talk) 15:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

There is a contradiction in the final sentence of the introduction. It reads, "Despite frequent changes of line-up, original members Kim McAuliffe, Enid Williams and Denise Dufort are still in the band to this day; the last of the original members, lead guitarist and singer Kelly Johnson, died of cancer in 2007." If three of the original members "are still in the band to this day" then Johnson could not have been "the last of the original members" when she died. 
Perhaps what was intended was that Johnson was the first of the original members to die? I don't know enough about Girlschool to fix this with an edit. Perhaps someone else can clarify this and remove the contradiction tag. --Basil Fritts (talk) 22:50, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
It occurs to me that what may be meant is that Johnson is the only original member no longer in the band. I am going to edit the sentence so that it reads this way. If this was not the intention, please correct it accordingly. --Basil Fritts (talk) 22:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

What you have written is fine. Lewismaster (talk) 05:49, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

These articles are supposed to be constructed on neutral descriptions of facts and events, not POV feminism which borders on the line of classroom lecturing. Which itself also comes across as inappropriate glorification of the subject (not very subtly suggesting that accolades should be given to the band as "trailblazing leaders"). 
This kind of thing hurts Wikipedia's reputation. I mean the article even concedes that GS doesn't embrace the whole "we had to overcome sexism" narrative, and it admits that very few females rock acts have ever cited the band's influence. Yet it goes so far as to connect their 'widespread' female rock influence to Riot Grrrl *major forehead palm*, and it incessantly makes the case for a "sexist, macho rock industry" they had to overcome. As though the other stated facts, such as how GS worked/performed alongside many big-name male rock acts and had a supportive male following, should be ignored as well.  It really doesn't seem to occur to people that feminism is an idealogically-slanted way of perceiving the world, one whose influence can never allow for neutrality. 
I'm also curious as to just how many female rock acts are going to be cited as the ultimate "path pavers" for all others? There was Heart, Linda Rondstadt, The Runaways, Debbie Harry, Suzi Quatro, Patti Smith, Grace Slick, Joan Jett, Nico and Vixen all who were known names before or during the time of Girlschool, and too many of them are given this distinction (whether on Wiki or elsewhere). 
Enough of this already. And for the record, men in rock are more than just "sexist barriers" to women, they are also stylistic innovators/trailblazers of just about every style women play in. 66.66.118.16 (talk) 08:16, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

I think that to write a good article on Wikipedia means to follow the sources. In writing the Legacy section that you find so offensive, I followed what many journalists and interviewers had already written on the subject. I don't think the article is too slanted towards a politically correct position or a feminist position; it is the general opinion of the sources that I found which can appear somewhat slanted and contradictory. To show all the different opinions on the subject is the right way to write articles such as this. Girlschool's legacy is quite small and apparently not very significant, but I think that a band with such a long career deserved a section about it, but if other contributors have sourced material to enrich that section, just do it! And if you don't agree with the machismo of the 80s British metal scene, please read what the authors of these books have to say on the matter:
Ian Christie – Sound of the Beast – The Complete Headbanging History of Heavy Metal – Harper Collins (2004) - ISBN 9780380811274
Malc Macmillan – The N.W.O.B.H.M. Encyclopedia – Iron Pages Books (2012) – ISBN 9783931624163
John Tucker  – Suzie Smiled... The New Wave of British Heavy Metal – Independent Music Press (2006) – ISBN 0954970470
Gerd Bayer et al.  – Heavy Metal Music in Britain – Ashgate Publishing (2009) – ISBN 9780754664239
Lewismaster (talk) 20:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi...for future reference please don't edit anything i change on the Girlschool page! I actually work for Girlschool and the band endorse my website as the real website, i also do the official Facebook pages with Denise the drummer so any changes i make will be factual and correcting mistakes in which there are a few which we will be looking to change! Thanks Igirlschool (talk) 21:02, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

It's a free world and you are free to edit Wikipedia, as long as you provide valid reference for what you write. I remind you that Wikipedia has a policy and guidelines for writing articles (see Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines for help). Saying to another editor what he cannot do is not one of them. Lewismaster (talk) 22:53, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
So you are saying that if the band themselves and their representative correct the mistakes on the page you will delete it? Igirlschool (talk) 23:24, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
for your information Girlschool see themselves as a rock band not a heavy metal band and that is one thing i will change and keep changing if you change it back! Igirlschool (talk) 23:28, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Dear Sir, Wikipedia is the result of the collaborative efforts of many editors, who are free to edit the articles. This means that the articles are always changing and not stuck in stone and you, me, everybody can add, modify and, to a limit, delete things. The limit are the sources, which are published articles, interviews, material  present on other websites, etc.,  but not the word of the object of the article. If a Girlschool member decides that she wants to delete and change something only on her word, without providing a published reference from somewhere, her edit could be considered not from a Neutral point-of-view and challanged. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that aims to be objective and not biased, proposing as many points of view on a topic as possible, based on published reference. It is not a manifesto for an individual agenda or an ad for a product. Having said that, and if you are as you claim in direct contact with the band members, it would be a privilege to work with you, if only as supervisor, to better the article, bringing it to Feature status (which means it would be exposed on the first page of Wikipedia). It took months of efforts to gather all the articles and references to write the piece and I would not be able to do better.
Regarding the status of rock band, of course Girlschool are a rock band. But rock band is such a wide definition that you can put in it The Beatles, Yes, Fleetwood Mac, Rush and Slayer without effort. In my opinion, the correct definition for the music of Girlschool would be Heavy Rock, which is not contemplated as a genre on Wikipedia. It uses instead hard rock. On the other hand,  Girlschool don't do ballads, they play fast songs with plenty of distorted guitars and short and poignant lyrics, which are characteristic of punk rock and heavy metal. I would stuck with what most critics wrote about their music, being a mix of punk and heavy metal. In various interviews during their career, Girlschool members themselves gave different definitions of their music (see article), but I think that it is also important how the outside world sees the band and their music. It is the same dispute started by Lemmy against the music press. He claims that Motörhead play rock'n'roll, but fans and critics know them and define them as a heavy metal band. His roots may be in Elvis, but his music, voice and attitude say something else.  As Kelly Johnson said "heavy metal is anything loud and exciting and it covers the spectrum of different bands". And Girlschool definetly are in this group. Lewismaster (talk) 08:42, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
@Igirlschool: Anything you add to the article must be verifiable; if it isn't backed up with a reliable source that can be verified, it can be removed by anyone at any time. That's the rule. If the consensus reached, based upon a preponderance of evidence from the sources cited, is that Girlschool is heavy metal, the band will be listed as heavy metal. I'm not saying that's the case, but that's how Wikipedia works. Cheers. p.s. - Tell the girls Hit and Run is still one of my all time favorites. ChakaKongLet's talk about it 14:21, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

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Hi @User:Lewismaster,
A "fanzine" can be printed, and indeed predates the internet in areas such as science fiction and the diplomacy board game; the fact that Metal Maidens was printed doesn't preclude it from being so. Meanwhile, if you look at the "about us" and "contact" pages on that website, you will see that it is not a professional operation, instead being run by a husband and wife team, with half a dozen occasional guest contributors.
In other words, it is a self-published magazine, both during its offline days and today, and as such cannot be used as source, for this article or otherwise. As such, I've reverted your revert - if you do revert again, please discuss here why you believe it does not fall under WP:SELFPUBLISHED.
BilledMammal (talk) 13:50, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

If you are sure that during their printing run (since 2005) there was no editorial control, I have no complaint about ereasing the reference. The current website reprints much of the magazine content in a very unprofessional setup and the van Poortens do not appear to be professional journalists, unlike some of their collaborators. However, I don't have a copy of the actual magazine to evaluate. The cover style and price (see [1]) are not much different from the first runs of magazines like Metal Forces and Rock Hard, but I cannot see any detail about the publisher and the periodicity of the issues. What can I say? I have doubts about the nature of the publication (magazine or fanzine?), but I have no proof that it is not self-published. Lewismaster (talk) 15:47, 1 October 2021 (UTC)