# Talk:Madison Keys

I think the reference to this person being 'very strong' could be considered subjective. I would modify with 'considered to be', perhaps someone could source a reference to this person's relative or absolute strength.
109.155.106.185 (talk) 15:44, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Keys said: "I don’t really identify myself as white or African-American." (NYT) Then, is categorization into African-Americans correct? --Kacir 23:18, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

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I intend to submit this article for a GA nomination at some point. If anyone has any comments/suggestions/criticisms, feel free to leave them here. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 07:50, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

The photo in 2015 at the Madrid Open might be better if it were replaced by a pic showing her forehand. It's nice to have pics showing off different aspects of her game. I see a serve, a volley, and a backhand, but no forehand. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:50, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
That's a good idea. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 02:26, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Madison Keys/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 01:52, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

I'll take this on. ceranthor 01:52, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Ceranthor! I updated some of Keys's recent results. The article should be ready to review! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:12, 19 November 2018 (UTC)


#### Prose
Lead
"She achieved a career-high ranking of No. 7 in the world in October 2016, and has been consistently ranked inside the top 25 by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA) since early 2015.[4]" - no comma necessary before "and has"
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Likewise, no comma needed before "and also competed"
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
" She then had her first big breakthrough" - while I see the sequencing intentions behind adding "then" here, I think it can be cut without changing much
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Early life and background
"for a white tennis dress like Venus Williams was wearing" - think you need to add "the one" after "like" here
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Keys started out playing tennis" - not sure you need "out" here
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"and began competing" - don't need a comma before this
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"tennis legend sister" - while I agree with this assessment :), might be more encyclopedic to describe her as former professional or something more objective
Changed to International Tennis Hall of Famer. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Junior career
"5' 10", serving at 115 mph" - conversions using {{convert}} probably needed here for non-US readers
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Professional career
", and the youngest since Martina Hingis in 1994.[21][22] " - probably don't need the comma here
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Keys also won an invitational playoff to compete at the 2012 Australian Open, but was unable to get past the first round.[27]" - same here; not sure you need the comma
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Keys began the season ranked No. 149 in the world" - I'd clarify that you mean the 2013 season, or whatever it would be (e.g. 2012-2013)
Changed to year. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"defeating Lucie Šafářová and Zheng Jie to avenge both of her previous losses in majors.[28]" - Doesn't seem like particularly encyclopedic phrasing to me. Also not sure it makes sense, since avenge would imply that she lost to them in particular I think. I'd replace the "avenge" bit altogether
Re-worded. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"She lost her only singles match to Camila Giorgi, but managed" - same comma note
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
" to win the dead rubber doubles match" - dead rubber?
linked to the dead rubber page. (It means the tie was already decided, but the last match or matches were played anyway, even though they had no effect on the outcome.) Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"against Alizé Cornet, but was unable " - same comma note
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"No. 7 Jelena Janković in the first round and a ninth-ranked Kerber" - would be nice to keep this in parallel structure and switch to "No. 9 Kerber..."
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"126 mph serve - use {{convert}}
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"since Vania King in 2006, and the first teenage titlist since Caroline Wozniacki in 2009.[44][46]" - don't need the comma
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"at Wimbledon, but was forced" - same comma note
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Although she played very well, Keys lost in straight sets." - doesn't seem like an objective description... especially if she lost in straight sets!
Re-worded. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"ahead of Zheng Saisai who she beat" - think it should be "whom"
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"top overall seed Venus Williams who she lost" - same note as above
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"which Venus went on to win" - not a big fan of "went on to"; cut the verbiage and just say that Venus "won"
Re-worded. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Keys breezed through her first three opponents all in straight sets " - again, doesn't sound like encyclopedic phrasing that adopts a neutral POV
Re-worded. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"No. 9 at Wimbledon, Keys advanced to the fourth round, where she was defeated by fifth seed Simona Halep" - parallelism suggestion to change "fifth seed" to "No. 5"
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"defeated Dominika Cibulkova, but lost her" - don't need the comma
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"which she hurt awhile back at the 2015 US Open" - cut out "awhile back"
Re-worded. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"after knocking out Wimbledon champion Garbiñe Muguruza in the semifinals, and close friend CoCo Vandeweghe" - don't need the comma here
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"but this time was stopped" - add "she" between "time" and "was"
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"at a major since Wimbledon in 1985, and the first occurrence at the US Open since 1979.[91]" - don't need the comma
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:09, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Rivalries
"attempts, but does" - don't need the comma; or you could add "she" between "but" and "does"
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Venus would avenge this loss" - same note about "avenge" as above; just not encyclopedic language
Re-worded. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"semifinals, but offered high praise" - don't need a comma
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"little over a month." - more than, not over
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"at the Olympics, but ended up finishing" - don't need the comma
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Playing style
"Keys has described her own game as" - I'd add something like "the following" after "as" here
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Her match losses are often due to her opponents provoking her into hitting too many unforced errors while she is aiming for winners.[101][96][128][103]" - nitpick perhaps, but you should organize reference citations in ascending order for consistency's sake, so it should be [96][101][103][128]. Just switch the order here
Switched Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Keys could serve at over 100 mph (161 kph)" - more than, not over
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Her 78.9 mph forehands trailed only Tomáš Berdych, and her 72.8 mph backhands trailed only Li Na. Out of just her fastest 1% of shots, Keys hit an average forehand at 97.1 mph - should add conversions for these numbers
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Her fastest backhands had an average of 90 mph" - same here
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:39, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"Her fastest backhands had an average of 90 mph, which was faster than that of Bernard Tomic and close to Nick Kyrgios.[139]" - context would be nice; are they known for fast backhands?
Clarified; they are known for having the ability to hit powerful groundstrokes.
Coaches
This section seems like it's largely repeating information that was already presented in the career section. I think it's redundant for that fact, and I would get rid of it, integrating any information it contains that's not already in "career" into that section.
I would rather keep it because I think it's more convenient to have a short summary of all of her coaches in one place. If someone comes to this page just looking for Keys's coaching history, the pro career section is too long to easily find all of that information. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:44, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Sponsors
"middle of 2017, and specifically uses " - don't need a comma
Fixed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Personal life
"None of her sisters play or follow tennis.[157]" - this doesn't fit well here, and I'm not sure it's relevant. I might just leave it out
Moved to early life section. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)


#### References
"Nonetheless, she has reached a Premier 5 final on clay and also made it to the semifinals at the French Open, the only major currently played on clay." - needs a citation
Added. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:19, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
References in the lead are very inconsistent, only citing certain arbitrary claims. I would suggest scrapping them altogether, assuming they are claims also referenced within the text.
Removed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
What makes [1] a reliable source?
I think it's reliable, given that it lists its own sources. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
What makes CoreTennis.net a reliable source?
I have checked the pro and junior data they have against the WTA and ITF sources, which list the same match results, but do not tabulate the same statistics (e.g. W–L over the course of a year), and never found any issues. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with Zootennis?
ZooTennis.com is definitely the most reliable source for reporting information about junior tennis in the US. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with Matchstat?
You can check the H2Hs from MatchStat against those from the WTA website. Unfortunately, the WTA website does not generate separate links from different H2H comparisons, so I needed to use H2H stats from another website in order to have links that do not go to just the generic H2H page on the WTA site. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with Flashscore.com? For the refs that have used it, it's noted as " FlashScore" or "FlashScore.com"; if it is reliable, they should be consistent
Standardized to without the ".com". It's definitely reliable for statistics. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with https://tennis.life/aboutus/?
Replaced. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with Score and Change?
It just re-iterates what the CNN source says. I included because it is continually updated (should her sponsors change), while the news article is not. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with Women's Tennis Blog?
I added a second source that confirms her racket model. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with NewBeauty?
It's an interview. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Same with Online Tennis Instruction?
Replaced. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)


#### Images
The image with the caption "Keys preparing to hit a forehand", does not appear to be correctly formatted on my laptop (with Chrome).
Does that mean you cannot see it? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:18, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
These are my initial comments. I will add more to the references and images comments once the first pass of comments are addressed. Good work so far. ceranthor 01:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the first round of comments! I addressed all of them so far, and only disagree with the one on the coaching section. I'm also not sure what you mean with the image comment. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:53, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
File:Keys RG18 (15) (28110321077).jpg - freely licensed, checks out
File:Madison Keys.jpg - appears to check out
File:Madison Keys (14958312307).jpg - checks out
File:Madison Keys (17968718374).jpg - checks out
File:Serena Williams and Madison Keys Rome Masters 2016.jpg - checks out
File:Keys WM17 (3) (36050849651).jpg - checks out
File:Madison Keys serving at Birmingham (cropped).jpg - checks out
File:Madison Keys (18699413809).jpg - licensing checks out, but this is disrupting the formatting for the "Coaches" section below. Might be better to move it to the right and nest it above the backhand image? Honestly, not sure we need an image of her serving, hitting a forehand, and a backhand...
I moved this image to the 2015 section, moved the previous image from 2015 to the infobox, and moved the previous image from the infobox to the 2018 section. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:07, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
File:Madison Keys backhand at Birmingham (cropped).jpg - checks out
File:Keys FearlesslyGirl.png - checks out, but could be slightly increased within the section without messing up the formatting because it's very blurry when it's sooo small
It doesn't appear blurry on my laptop, but it does on my desktop (which has a larger screen) and making it bigger doesn't seem to change that. I'm not sure why because the full-size image does not appear blurry to me on either screen. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:07, 20 November 2018 (UTC)


#### Final thoughts
Is it customary to split up Grand Slam tournament finals and Career statistics? Seems unnecessary when there's not much as far as grand slams for her (yet).
Merged. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
A nitpick, but could you alphabetize the external links: Official website, then the three Madison Keys pages in this order: Fed Cup, ITF, WTA?
It's in order of importance. (The WTA website is the go-to source for her tennis profile, aside from Wikipedia, haha. The ITF profile has most of the same information. The Fed Cup profile has much less information about her, only what pertains to Fed Cup.)
"Known for having a big serve" - in the lead... no idea what this actually means, so I'd change the wording from "big" to something more useful to a lay reader... fast? strong?
Changed to fast. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
"hit big serves.[128]" - under "Keys versus Stephens and Vandeweghe"; same note as above
Changed to fast. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:10, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for replying quickly. Give me a ping when these have been fixed. ceranthor 19:01, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

It is not customary to split the grand slam chart from career stats... I have fixed that. Alphabetize the external links? I've not seen that done before, certainly not with tennis players. It is almost always done by importance and wealth of info as with Federer and Serena Williams. I changed it to an often done order and added her junior profile. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:35, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@Ceranthor: I added comments on the references and images above. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 20:53, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

@Sportsfan77777: Sorry for the delay - I took a few days off for Thanksgiving. Looks good - I'll pass this! ceranthor 22:54, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

I sure wish we could find a better photo for the infobox. The one there now is pretty bad but I didn't really see a better one at wikimedia. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:50, 19 November 2018 (UTC)