# Talk:Long-toed salamander

I added a larva image to the article; someone who is an expert on this genus might wish to verify my identification of Image:Ambystoma_macrodactylum_26592.JPG. Walter Siegmund (talk) 02:21, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

This is definitely a long-toed salamander. I have watched and photographed many individuals of this species in great detail.Mark Thompson
Hi Mark Thompson; thank you for your comments. I see that your thesis title was 'Phylogeography of the long-toed salamander' (2003).  Best wishes, Walter Siegmund (talk) 03:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Up in Washington (state) I've seen salmanders that look exactly like the adult in the picture at the top of the article. The ones I've seen are only about an inch or two long, black, with a stripe running down the back that's blotchy around the edges. But in some of the salamanders I've seen, the stripe is red, or even occasionally orange. Is this a different kind? The red-striped salamanders, at least, also have a horrendously bitter taste. 70.210.251.211 (talk) 04:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

A bitter taste? Did you taste it? I wouldn't recommend this. I have found long-toed salamanders with a surprising redish skin color here in Prince George British Columbia. You might, however, be mixing up species with Plethodon vehiculum - or possibly even Ambystoma gracile. I don't take the dorsal stripe pattern as a guide to the sub-species too seriously at this point. The original sample sites where the sub-species descriptions stem have major geographic gaps. The Santa-Cruz long-toed salamander definitely has a different pattern. However, throughout much of the species range - which I have visited - I have found all sorts of patterns. I'm working with a graduate student and have been collecting images of this species from throughout its range for about five years now. I hope to write a report on the pattern in relation to the sub-species identification. Thompsma 01:20, 31 December 2008 Thompsma (talk) 21:34, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Responding to a request on my talk page, I've upgraded the article to B class. It probably is a GA, but since a review is pending, it would be good to wait for those comments. Previously, unrated as to importance, I added a rating of "Low", but don't know enough about the subject to rate it higher. Walter Siegmund (talk) 05:35, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

A user just added some information about salamanders being indicators of environmental problems because they can absorb materials through their skin. I am thinking of removing this because this notion has been challenged in the scientific literature. It is false. There is no evidence suggesting that amphibians are any more sensitive than any other creature for this reason alone. It is true that their biology may make them more susceptible to some environmental problems, but the linkage to their permeable skin has been questioned - yet it gets repeated time and time again. I would hate to remove someone else's contribution though - it was done in earnest and they do include a citation. Although the citation isn't a peer-reviewed piece. I may just reword it a bit.Thompsma (talk) 18:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I altered the wording. I'm still not too happy with the way it is phrased and would rather remove this section out all together. It really doesn't belong here. There might be a simpler way to do this. I'll think about it. Unfortunately, the user who created the account and posted the information on here has left. It might be best to just remove it. Any thoughts??Thompsma (talk) 19:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

If it is unsupported by the science, it should be removed. If it is supported, but disputed in the scientific literature, then all significant viewpoints must be covered, if one is, according to WP:NPOV. However, unless the content is specific to this species, it should be covered in an more general article and deleted from this one. I doubt that Montana Outdoors is generally recognized as a WP:RS for an article on science. Consequently, I would support removing the content on this species being indicators of environmental problems. Walter Siegmund (talk) 18:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll jot down any issues I see as I (slowly) work my way through converting refs to citations templates. Sasata (talk) 16:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

pages numbers needed for book references (see Description section, but there may be others coming up). If different pages are used in multiple citations of the same book, then I'll change "references" to separate "Footnotes" and "Cited texts" sections per MOS.
Thanks Sasata! I will be coming to work on this article - I keep getting drawn into other projects.Thompsma (talk) 17:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I would like to convert the ref formatting to List-defined references. This will make it easier to edit the main body of the article, and makes it easier to standardize the refs for consistent formatting (a requirement of FAC). Let me know if there's any objections to doing this, otherwise I'll just go ahead and make the changes. Sasata (talk) 06:31, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
"... are descended from a common ancestor that gained access to the western Cordillera with the loss of the mid-continental seaway toward the Paleocene." can we replace "toward" with "during" or some other preposition?
"... montane riparian zones, sagebrush plains, red fir forests, semi-arid sagebrush ..." how fine is the distinction between sagebrush plains and semi-arid sagebrush? Can these be combined?
spelling: British, Canadian, or American?

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