# Talk:Moorgate station

Question: if First Capital Connect wanted to, could class 313s operate into the sub-surface station, and classes 319/365 operate into the deep-level station (and indeed, any other 750V DC units)?

When you say sub-surface, do you mean platforms 5 & 6 ? (They're closed permanently now, so this is purely an academic question).  There are issues here, as 313s are GN only units and platforms 5 & 6 were on the Thameslink route. So either Thameslink  drivers would have had to learn 313 traction, or GN drivers would have had to learn the Thameslink route. And the 313s would have had to have been moved onto the Thameslink side of Operations - all a bit time consuming, costly and pointless really.
Class 319s could not work over the NCL because although they are dual-voltage they don't have tripcock mechanisms. Class 365s couldn't work over the NCL because they (i) are AC traction only (ii) lack tripcock mechanisms (iii) don't have emergency end doors (which would exclude them from both of the Moorgate stations because of restrictions concerned with the single bore tunnels).
W.r.t. the Northern City Line, only class 313s have route clearance down the NCL, so FCC wouldn't be allowed to take any other stock down there. The NCL has its own special set of Rules governing stock and operational procedures due to the infrastructure being LUL equipment but with mainline trains running over it (I'm intending to write a section about this soon).  Hope this helps. Fu Manchuchu (talk) 18:06, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

The area this station is in is undergoing WP:FAR. Simply south 00:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Image:First logo cropped F.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Image:First logo cropped F.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is  other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page.  Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 20:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

If you're thinking of removing info relating to First Capital Connect, please read carefully.  I will only say this once:

FCC Thameslink services (peak hours only) from Moorgate to Farringdon, Luton & Bedford have been withdrawn.
FCC Great Northern City Line services (Mon-Fri only) from Moorgate to Old Street, Finsbury Park and Welwyn have not, and are not planned to be withdrawn.
In summary, please stop removing references to any current National Rail service from the station. Thank you. --Peeky44 (talk) 08:39, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Even once services are withdrawn completely, they shouldn't disappear without trace from the article.  They should be discussed, maybe in less detail, as a historical fact. Quietbritishjim (talk) 18:44, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Are there any further plans for the decommissioned lines?

Does the Circle-line really use them?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 13:21, 7 December 2011 (UTC) 

It would be useful to know about traction on the northern city platforms.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 13:24, 7 December 2011 (UTC) 

What sort of traction ? Traction current or class of traction unit. In either case this is fully covered on the Northern City Line page. Feel free to copy some details across if you feel it needs it. Fu Manchuchu (talk) 17:16, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

It's on Moorfields, not Moorgate.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 13:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC) 

"The line was extended to Angel the following year with services to London Midland Region (LMR) destinations using the Midland Main Line and Eastern Region (ER) destinations using the East Coast Main Line (ECML) (accessed via the York Road Curve and Hotel Curve to King's Cross)."
Does the author suggest that main line trains ran on the tube or that tube trains ran on the main line? What has an extension to Angel (not King's Cross) to do with main lines?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 13:39, 7 December 2011 (UTC) 

It's a bit mixed up. The only line that ever served Angel was the C&SLR (the present Northern Line City branch); and Northern Line trains have never run beyond the present termini of Edgware, Mill Hill East and High Barnet. Prior to the transfer of the Northern City Line from London Transport to British Rail in the 1970s, through services from Moorgate to the main-line railways ran via Barbican and Farringdon. The tunnels on the route via Barbican is large enough for main-line trains: and indeed, that is how they were operated - trains of the Midland Railway, Great Northern Railway, or their successors (LMS, LNER, British Railways). --Redrose64 (talk) 18:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

This part's obscure too. The significance of the new Liverpool Street ticket-office needs to be explained. The hint about an 'interchange' may mean that Moorgate and Liverpool Street will become one station, like Bank and Monument. If so, this should be said, rather than hints about ticket-offices and interchanges (whatever they are).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 13:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC) 

It's very mixed up, isn't it. I'll try to improve it now.Afterbrunel (talk) 07:45, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi all. At the moment we say "No National Rail trains operate to Moorgate on Saturdays and Sundays" but I'm currently sitting on an FCC train I got on at HHY and I'm heading for BOP. I was very very surprised to find the platforms open. When did this change?? Best wishes to all DBaK (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

There's no service on the Northern Line between Camden Town and Kennington (via Bank) today and tomorrow, because of engineering work, so perhaps they're running FCC trains to Moorgate to cover for that. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:03, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Moorgate station's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "culgmetropolitan":
From Barbican tube station: Feather, Clive. "Metropolitan line". Clive's Underground Line Guides. Archived from the original on 1 May 2015. Retrieved 1 May 2015. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
From Baker Street tube station: Feather, Clive. "Metropolitan line". Clive's Underground Line Guides. Archived from the original on 6 April 2015. Retrieved 10 April 2015. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
From Amersham station: Feather, Clive. "Metropolitan line". Clive's Underground Line Guides. Archived from the original on 30 August 2014.
From Aldgate tube station: Clive's Underground Line Guides - Metropolitan line

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 17:26, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

@Redrose64: "there were certainly steam-hauled special trains in the 1990s in the open sections, and what about the *underground* steam-hauled specials in 2013?"
The text from The story of London's Underground, a pretty good source on tube lines IMHO, says : "The last day of steam locomotive operation on London Transport was celebrated on 6 June 1971 by a commemorative run by a steam-hauled train from Moorgate to Neasden depot." I can only assume this is talking about regular, day to day, operations, as it fits the general timeline of London suburban services being the last on the block to convert from steam to diesel / electric. Obviously, as I only have the 6th (1979) edition in front of me (it's all the local library had), it's not going to talk about events in 1990 or 2013 - though I think even the most diehard steam enthusiast would concede you wouldn't want to reintroduce them for regular commuting services across London. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 20:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Yes, regular operations - but the article doesn't say that, it uses the words "a commemorative service" which directly indicate an irregular service. To expand on that, it says "The last ever steam locomotive on a London Transport line was a commemorative service on 6 June 1971" which implies that including special services, there was never again a steam-hauled service on any part of the Underground.
I've got about five or six different editions of The Story of London's Underground, right back to the first edition of 1963 (obviously those published before 1971 are irrelevant here), my most recent (although not the most recent) is the tenth edition (2008). It mentions the "Steam on the Met" specials on page 196, these originated with centenary celebrations for the Chesham branch in 1989. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:01, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
So when did steam stop becoming a regular feature on suburban London services? I have definitely read in one source that it was well behind the mainline operations, so 1970s sounds right, I just can't remember where I saw it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:50, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
London Transport stopped running timetabled steam-hauled passenger trains in 1937; haulage of LT trains beyond Rickmansworth was handed over to the LNER, and for this purpose, eighteen of LT's steam locos were sold to the LNER (the whole of the former Metropolitan Railway G, H and K classes, which became LNER classes M2, H2 and L2 respectively). LT retained a few steam locos for working engineering trains, and in the 1950s and 1960s, several of these were replaced by thirteen GWR 5700 Class locos bought from BR. The last three of those were withdrawn by LT in 1971. These in turn were replaced by battery locomotives, a number of which are still in use. As for British Railways, electrification and the mass introduction of diesel multiple-units did away with pretty much all of the steam-hauled suburban services by 1964/5. Main line steam in the London area lingered until 1967, and until 1968 in north-west England. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:56, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

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