# Talk:Murder of John Lennon

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 February 2021 and 14 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Natalienista.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

What was the motive for the murder? there is no a single word on that. There must have been a reason, what was it?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.58.40.92 (talk) 18:28, 22 October 2018 (UTC) 

On June 22, 2019, an edit, with sources, was made regarding the attempts to resuscitate John Lennon.  In recent years, witnesses who were on scene agree that despite what he has said over the years, even on national television, Dr. Steven Lynn was not involved in the attempt to save John Lennon's life. They all agree that Dr. David Halleran was the surgeon (3rd year general surgery intern) that was in the room.  Furthermore, they have commented on how the stories from Dr. Lynn have become more and more embellished over time, as he has continued to make claims, such as having "held his heart in his hand," or "stopped Yoko from banging her head on concrete," among others. Information to the contrary was in the sources provided.  
While I will not attempt to edit this again, I do think it hurts Wikipedia's credibility to have any information that staff members on the scene, as well as Yoko Ono herself, have challenged.  In this user's opinion, any claims of direct contact with John Lennon made by Dr. Lynn needs to be carefully reviewed, and considered for purging. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.197.86.47 (talk • contribs) 

Given that the edit you inserted removed sourced material and replaced it with YouTube links and a reference to The Mirror (not a very authoritative source), it was reverted for the time being. Please list the sources here for consideration. Acroterion (talk) 03:32, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
Understood, and thank you for responding.  The sourced material removed was that of Dr. Lynn's claims. Perhaps, rather than replacing them, I should have started here and simply requested the information be reexamined for accuracy, as new developments have emerged in recent years. Simply googling Drs. Halleran and Lynn gives one several sources other than the ones I chose to list. I noticed someone else brought this issue up as well. There was no intention to be disrespectful to those who have edited before, as they simply provided the information and sources that were available at the time. I very much enjoy Wikipedia. Peace.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.197.86.47 (talk) 06:48, 23 June 2019 (UTC)
For edits of that kind, it's always best to start here. You'll need to provide specific sourcing that supersedes the existing sourcing, rather than just advising editors to look at Google. Acroterion (talk) 12:37, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

That's a little biased and non-representstive of the section's content. Lexein (talk) 03:00, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

True. I changed the word. Hotcop2 (talk) 16:51, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

I just don't understand why  Martin Luther King Jr, Mahatma Gandhi, and John F. Kennedy who were all very significant figures in history have there articles marked as an "assassination" and John's article doesn't. John Lennon was a significant figure in pop culture and to name this a "Murder" seems to mild and not as serious. --9Revolution (talk) 22:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

He was murdered because of someone's psychotic delusions, not because of a political agenda. ili (talk) 04:28, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
He was murdered because he had funded the terrorist bombing campaign by the Provisional IRA.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:C410:5601:2963:5133:A569:BE84 (talk) 17:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
"He was murdered because of someone's psychotic delusions, not because of a political agenda."
John Hinckley tried to kill Ronald Reagan to impress Jodie Foster, not because of politics, yet that article is called "assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan" Guyermou (talk) 02:52, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Lennon's own family confirmed he armed the Provisional IRA at the height of its terrorist bombing campaign. This should be added to the article as it is why he was murdered. 2A00:23C5:C410:5601:2963:5133:A569:BE84 (talk) 17:45, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

What nonsense. Lennon being of an Irish background was opposed to the terrorist state of Britain’s bloody occupation of Ireland, just like most Irish people today are opposed to and critical of the terrorist state of Israel’s bloody doings in Palestine. 78.152.248.247 (talk) 10:02, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Reasonably, Wikipedia has requested general consensus on referring to Lennon’s murder as an assassination. Through research even so far as the Wikipedia article itself, Lennon’s killer held motives of hate for Lennon’s public image and liberal ideas. Though he was not a “politician,” the definition of assassination makes no such rule, only stating that most assassinations are often of political figures. And even so, was Lennon not? As quite possibly the biggest star in the world at the time, his outspokenness of the Vietnam War and other social issues in America and the world essentially made him a political figure, whether he saw himself so or not. Wikipedia has made clear that we need to unite in whatever choice we make, and if you agree with the points I previously stated, please add your voice to mine. Chamberlainjr5 (talk) 04:55, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

This has been discussed before. This page has been titled Death of John Lennon and briefly Assassination of John Lennon. The "death" title was moved to "murder" in 2017 after this discussion: Talk:Murder_of_John_Lennon/Archive_2#Requested_move_3_May_2017.
The terms "murder" and "assassination" are both found in the sources, with murder somewhat more widely used. I don't think there is enough weight in the literature to call it assassination in Wikipedia's voice. We should not avoid the word, but the main concept is murder. Binksternet (talk) 07:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
The previous consensus was "murder", and that has been the WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS for a very long time. We need a very clear consensus to change it. Sundayclose (talk) 15:05, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
And the same edit was just reverted after the OP made it again, nearly 10 months later, despite being advised of this current consensus. General Ization Talk   04:41, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
It is within my right to bring up this issue at least yearly, especially considering there has been no discourse on the topic since my original post. If you have a forum to better gain this consensus, please make yourself useful. Chamberlainjr5 (talk) 07:14, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Look at the beginning paragraph for this very article referenced in MDC’s article. Any motive for the murder is described as religious or political. I find the resistance to my motion frankly hypocritical.
Mark David Chapman Chamberlainjr5 (talk) 07:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
@Chamberlainjr5: The fact that other editors do not feel as strongly as you do that this needs to be changed is, frankly, not my problem. And comments like "make yourself useful" are uncivil. General Ization Talk   15:11, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
So editors are considered the “general consensus”? That seems highly exclusive and elitist. If users like the one above are who represents Wikipedia, I am seriously concerned for the advancement of knowledge on this platform. Chamberlainjr5 (talk) 03:29, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
Again I refer all parties interested to the Mark David Chapman article linked above. Is this not contradictory to everything stated in this thread? Chamberlainjr5 (talk) 03:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)