# Talk:Isa Briones

... is as good as I can get it, for the time being. There are numerous items on the subject's résumé that I cannot reliably source. ATS (talk) 19:24, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

A previous version of this article stated that Briones graduated; that's from her résumé, and I cannot find a WP:RS for this as yet. ATS (talk) 21:31, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

No change. —ATS (talk) 17:54, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I am unconvinced that the lead sentence should list her as actor. The two references offered in the comments, one url is dead (https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/star-trek-picard/cast/216324/), and the other quotes her as saying, "I think it's every actor's dream to know that you're putting something out that has a built-in audience". This is using the term "actor" as a gender-neutral term to refer to everyone involved in acting. It is not a statement about her preference to be called "actor", nor is it a reference showing that RS refer to her as actor. Lastly, I don't not believe that MOS allows people to decide what they are called. We follow RS. The follow, for example, refers to her as "actress". 'Star Trek: Picard' Actress on Show's "Progressive" Asian-American Representation --LK (talk) 07:13, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lawrencekhoo: I have included the archive page from the original CBS website which, IMO, is an RS. Additionally, you seem to have passed up what was the capper for me, in the interview for Paste: "... I definitely feel, as a theatre actor, that ..."
In the meantime, I also disagree with removing "and singer" from the lede. The Theatre section provides ample evidence that she has worked professionally as a singer. I am restoring it per BRD.
—ATS (talk) 16:06, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Having worked as a singer does not mean that she is known as a singer.  See WP:BLPLEAD for guideline on what should be on the lead sentence.  Note that BRD is not policy. LK (talk) 02:16, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
I did read BLPLEAD and 'due weight' seems to be used by you to negate that she was in the first touring company of Hamilton and the youngest such person hired therefor. In addition, BLP may indeed not be policy but is a widely accepted guideline. Revert yourself or I report you. —ATS (talk) 06:12, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
WP:POLICY and WP:GUIDELINE should both generally be followed. Note that as stated in MOS:ROLEBIO, the lead sentence should describe a person as "they are commonly described in reliable sources." Isa Briones is not usually described as a singer. I have not seen any news or magazine articles describing her as "the singer, Isa Briones", or "Isa Briones, actress and singer". Unless the majority of RS describe her like this, she should not be described as such. I have found that the overwhelming majority of the RS refer to her as actor or actress. Also, please note that it's considered not WP:POLITE to threaten a fellow editor on Wikipedia. LK (talk) 13:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Literally nothing to which you point—in particular your fully invented 'majority of RS' restriction—makes your case for violating WP:EW; you are warring regardless of whether you wish to admit it.
The CBS page linked in the comment specifically calls her "actor and singer". Official publications linked in the article use the same description, as do Deadline, Good News Pilipinas, GMA and The Society of Composers and Lyricists, just from a cursory search. Whether you have a life outside of Wikipedia (or Star Trek, for that matter) is irrelevant in terms of an edit war, which is always worthy of a report—and waving POLITE in my face changes nothing.
Again, you will restore the data (for purposes of the discussion at the very least) or this will go to the administration. Full stop.
—ATS (talk) 16:02, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Note that the source in lead sentence calls her an "actress", and does not even mention "singer" in the entire article. This is a pre-existing source, so you know I have not cherry picked. I have changed it per the source, if you want to change it, please provide sources to back up your edit. I don't think you'll have much luck though, I have viewed about 10 other news articles, and they invariably do not refer to her as singer.  LK (talk) 04:11, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Vandalism reverted. Strongly sourced. Take it to DR. —ATS (talk) 15:25, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

You are not supplying references. It is not enough to claim that something is "well referenced", you must actually supply them.  Also, it is not WP:POLITE to keep on accusing another editor of vandalism, when all they are doing is removing uncited material, and asking that it be referenced before it is reintroduced. According to WP:BLP policy, any disputed material in a BLP must be referenced, otherwise it should be removed, it states: "The burden of evidence rests with the editor who adds or restores the material." LK (talk) 02:37, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


### "Weak consensus"
In addition to serious flaws in determining article stability, it appears Jc37 can't count. If every !vote is taken at face value with no further estimation of discussion validity, C has 5.5 to D's 3.5. —ATS (talk) 05:43, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Further, as noted here by Black Kite, one of the B/D preferences was added by an editor who was indef blocked over a month ago. If this !vote is discounted, C "wins" 5.5 to 2.5, further destroying the close. —ATS (talk) 18:19, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
See WP:NOTAVOTE. Either contest via Jc37 talk page or other further venues, or accept the consensus.  Spy-cicle💥  Talk? 13:38, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
@Spy-cicle: this has already been decided at ANI, where the incontrovertible consensus is that this was a bad close on an improper "consensus". Please revert yourself as re-close is likely at any time. Thank you. —ATS (talk) 16:39, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
I have re-closed the RfC per the ANI discussion. Black Kite (talk) 18:35, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

I had a question regarding her name in the lead. "Isa" is presumably a shortened form of her birth name, Isabella. Because of this, is it possible to remove the "known professionally as Isa Briones" from the first sentence of the page? Example pages of actors who use nicknames or shortened forms of their first names: Meryl Streep, Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, Gene Hackman, and Jodie Foster. —Dog Starkiller (talk) 16:30, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

This would not be considered a common short form - see Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biography#cite_note-CommHypo-10. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:58, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
I would not consider "Meryl" a common short form for "Mary Louise", or "Jodie" for "Alicia Christian". Some other celebs with uncommon short form names that do not have "known professionally as x" in their lead sections are Kit Harington, Gigi Hadid, Tina Fey, and Bunny Berigan. The last two examples are listed in the page you linked to, as people with uncommon hypocorisms. In these cases, the uncommon nickname is "usually presented between double quotation marks following the last given name or initial" (quote from MOS:PSEUDONYM). Again, would it be possible to change the lead section so it is in accordance with the Manual of Style? Dog Starkiller (talk) 18:19, 2 October 2021 (UTC)