# Talk:Indian Military Academy

I hope somebody can help in cleaning up, formatting this article, and also re-organizing/adding/deleting data, coz some of it might be copyvio or something.
Jai Sri Rama! 
Rama's Arrow 14:59, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Rama's Arrow, clean up started, 14 years later. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 05:46, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Can someone with knowledge of IMA create a list of alumni please?
Vinay84 (talk) 12:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the following text from the foreign alumni section - Lt. General Ghulam Jilani Khan – Pakistani martial law administrator.
Help is needed in finding a reference so it can be put back. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 05:43, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

General Mohan Singh Deb, commander-in-chief of the First Indian National Army which fought against the British for the independence of India, was also an alumnus.
DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm getting confused here. Should the "s" be added or should it go. Or should Chakra remain the same and "recepients" added ("17 Ashoka Chakra recepients" OR "receipeints of 17 Ashoka Chakras")?

Lead: Alumni are also recipients of 17 Ashoka Chakra, 84 Maha Vir Chakras and 41 Kirti Chakra among other honours.
Notable alumni: Till 2016, alumni from the academy are recipients of 7 Param Vir Chakras, 17 Ashoka Chakra, 84 Maha Vir Chakras and 257 Vir Chakras.[17] Alumni are also recipients of 2 Sarvattam Yudh Seva Medals, 28 Uttam Yudh Seva Medals, 48 Kirti Chakra and 191 Shaurya Chakra.[67][68]
User:DBigXray Any suggestions? DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 06:55, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

I went ahead and made some changes according to what I through was best. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 06:17, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

G'day, DiplomatTesterMan thank you for your work on this article. I believe it is coming along nicely. Per your request on my talk page, I have a few pre-GAn suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 08:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

reword "Indian Independence Struggle" -- the capitalisation here doesn't seem correct, and the term potentially isn't neutral. I'd suggest maybe just "Prior to Indian independence" or something similar
Changed to "Indian independence movement" as per the linked page DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
as per the above, suggest avoiding the word "martyr"
Changed to battle casualties, official govt of India term for the same. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
avoid duplicate links (for instance Manekshaw is linked many times as are a few other terms)
Reduced number of duplicates, some still left. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
link freshman
Done. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
citation 75 needs a closing page number for the cited range
Done DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
suggest moving the works by Sinha and Wright in the Bibliography to a Further reading section as they are not specifically cited
Done DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
suggest adding location of publication to the Sinha and Wright entries in the Bibliography (for consistency with the other sources)
Location of Sinha added, University of California. Wright's location difficult to find so far and I don't have access to a hard copy or even a soft copy as yet. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
try to avoid sandwiching text between images -- for instance in the Passing Out Parade and Post-Independence sections, I think it would be best to remove one of the images
Done DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
the current commandant is listed in the infobox, but does not seem to be mentioned or cited in the body of the article
Cited in the infobox. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
same as above for the motto (unless I missed it)
Added to picture caption as well as add citation in the infobox, hope that is ok. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that looks fine to me. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:14, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
there is a mixture of date formats in the article, e.g. "October 1, 1932" and "1 October 1932" -- suggest making this consistent
Done DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 06:37, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
for GA, you will need to be sure that all references meet the requirements of WP:RS. For instance, can you please confirm that this meets the requirements: [1]?
same as above for [2] -- suggest checking all refs against the WP:RS requirements
Sorted out 1 and 2, will go through the rest as well and check against WP:RS.
capitalisation: sometimes you use "gentlemen cadet" and sometimes "Gentleman Cadet" -- best to be consistent
Changed to capital throughout. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
English variation: there is a mix of British and US English spelling in the article (for instance "colours" (British) but also "colors" (US)) -- best to be consistent
if you haven't already done so, I think it might be a good idea to request a copy edit through the WP:GOCE
Requested.DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
"File:Smith Dun.jpg": potentially also needs a US licence in addition to the current licence
I've asked for help over at the commons help desk for this and below. Not sure as to how to go about it and if no US licence implies having to remove the files from the article.DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
AustralianRupert, I am not too sure how to go about these licensing issues with the picutres and the replies over at the commons help desk also make it seem like a dead end. If there is no US license applicable does that mean the image will have to be removed? Isn't the GODL-India license on two of the images enough for those images to stay? DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 10:30, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
G'day, the status of the images in the US is important as that is where Wikipedia's servers are located. Commons only accepts files that are in the public domain in the United States and in the source country of the work. [3]  If the Govt of India GODL licence applies worldwide, then those images that are uploaded with that licence are probably be fine, IMO. The others (such as File:Smith Dun.jpg), though, may be harder to licence appropriately -- it may be best to remove (from this article) some of those images whose free status isn't clear until you can confirm. Some of the ones with problematic licencing might be used under a fair use licence (if transferred from Commons to Wikipedia), but I'd suggest caution in this approach. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:18, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
Removed this particular image. Have left ones will the GODL license or other acceptable licenses. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
same as above for "File:9th Madras lays its colours at Chetwode Hall at IMA, Dehra Dun in 1956.jpg"
Image removed. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
same as above for "File:The Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi signing the visitors’ book, at the War Memorial in Indian Military Academy, Dehradun, ahead of the Combined Commanders Conference,.jpg"
GODL license. I've left it for now. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 09:03, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that should be fine now that it has been established that GODL applies worldwide. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:14, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
same as above for "File:Hockey Match held between IMA and AFA.jpg"
GODL license. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 07:03, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
same as above for "File:General K. M. Cariappa.jpg"-- suggest checking all others a well
GODL license. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 07:03, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
quotes should be attributed in text, for instance where you mention "psychological terms a foretaste of what the trainees would face..."
Remove quotes and rewrite line. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 06:37, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
Anyway, that's it from me. Once again, thanks for your hard work. All the best with taking the article further. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 08:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

@DiplomatTesterMan: G'day, hope you are well. Just a couple of belated follow up queries: firstly, do female officer cadets attend the college? The use of the term "gentleman cadet" implies to me that the do not, but it might be a good idea to clarify if this is the case; and if they do not, I'd suggest very briefly mentioning how they are commissioned i.e. attendance at another institution etc. If women do not serve as commissioned officers in the Indian Army, it might make sense to mention this (sorry, I don't have a firm understanding of this topic). I note that the Officers Training Academy article briefly mentions women undertaking training there from 1992 onwards. Secondly, I also wonder if potentially something should be added to the article explaining the difference between IMA and the Officers Training Academy. For instance, why would a cadet be sent to IMA instead of OTA, or vice versa? Do they commission with the same status, or do cadets graduate with different types of commissions (e.g. a permanent commission v. short service commission)?  Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 07:08, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
AustralianRupert, how interesting that you asked this. I was framing the answers to reply and only today did the Supreme Court of India give a ruling in favour of granting permanent commission to females, which the central government has 3 months to implement as per news reports. link. I will provide explanations for the other questions and accordingly incorporate it into the main body soon. This was just a side-note comment. What it means for this article and IMA as such, no idea. But, thanks so much for the questions! DTM (talk) 10:22, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
Do female officer cadets attend the college? - As of now, no. There are no female cadets in either IMA or NDA. (NDA is the tri-service institute and from where cadets go to either IMA, NA or AFA for further training. Please note, there are other ways of entry into IMA other than only through NDA as already mentioned in the article.) Only unmarried male candidates are allowed to apply. As far as OTA is concerned, since 1992, it offers only Short Service Commission (SSC) to male and female cadets, as compared to permanent commission being given to cadets who go to IMA or NDA. Female cadets in OTA are referred to as Lady Cadets. And I presume if and when female cadets are allowed in NDA and IMA, they will be referred to as Lady Cadets.
At present, women enter through SSC that allows them to be inducted into only some roles for a period of 14 years (which can vary). Permanent commission "was" only allowed for females in say the army's legal and educational wings. But the new Supreme Court order changes things (but even this new order doesn't imply combat roles opening up in the Army for females. Combat roles have only opened up in the Air Force). Women currently make up 4% of army personnel.
Why would a cadet be sent to IMA instead of OTA - rather than being sent to IMA or OTA, the candidate would voluntarily apply themselves, as per criteria and requirements.
I hope I have covered the doubts. Please do let me know if anything else needs to be covered. I will now go ahead and make the changes to the article accordingly. Thanks again. DTM (talk) 05:58, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Priya Jhingan was cadet number 001 at OTA. Her profile agrees with what is mentioned above related to SSC and being in the legal wing. DTM (talk) 06:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
G'day, thanks for looking this up. Am I right in saying that IMA is for those that are seeking a permanent commission and OTA is for those seeking a short service commission? If so, I wonder if it might be possible to make this distinction a bit clearer in the article? Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:08, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
I said everything else and forgot to do the main thing! I put two three lines into the article that should help explain the point you are bringing up. Largely what you have written, "IMA is for those that are seeking a permanent commission and OTA is for those seeking a short service commission" can be considered correct. Just now I have placed some cites which are good enough to back this up, but will look for a proper reference that explains all this in a much better comprehensive way. Hopefully the reference is out there. DTM (talk) 14:35, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Nice work, thanks for your efforts. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 07:02, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Just want to outline the naming convention I have followed in this article.

The Indian Military Academy
The Academy
IMA
If anyone has any changes or better ideas, please feel free to suggest or make the changes of course. Thanks. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 07:05, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Training schedule with some rules and punishments. DTM (talk) 12:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)