# Talk:Hurricane Omar

Why is the disam. page named Tropical Storm Omar? Shouldn't there be a statement saying This article is about the 2008 storm; there was also a Typhoon Omar in the 1992 Pacific typhoon season, instead of this?
76.236.182.31 (talk) 14:33, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, it probably could be. I created the disambig page assuming that Omar would not be as strong as it is; assuming that the name would keep being used. I say keep the disambig page, at least until Omar is (possibly) retired. |C A I N E R||ninety-one| 02:08, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
It is called Tropical Storm Omar because if a name is used in more than 1 basin, (in this case Atlantic and West Pacific) it is automatically given Tropical Storm first. --Kirk76 1854 Atlantic Hurricane Season 19:45, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I get this, but the typhoon of 1992 was the only other Omar there is, so it should say This article is about the 2008 hurricane; there was also a Typhoon Omar during the 1992 Pacific typhoon season, because there is no other Omar. It says this in some Atlantic hurricane articles, like 2003's Isabel and 1992's Andrew. With Isabel, it says This article is about the 2003 hurricane; there was also a Tropical Storm Isabel during the 1985 Atlantic hurricane season. It is the same thing with Andrew as well. It says This article is about the 1992 hurricane; there was also a Tropical Storm Andrew during the 1986 Atlantic hurricane season because they were the only 2 Andrews' there were. Therefore, it should say the same thing with Omar. In other words, you should only make a disam. page if there are 3 or more storms of the same name.76.236.182.31 (talk) 14:28, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Do you agree with me on this change for now?
76.236.179.230 (talk) 20:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
I would, considering the fact it is right that there are only 2 Omar's. 76.236.179.230 (talk) 23:24, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
If the name isn't retired after this year, then we will put the page as Tropical Storm Omar. 76.236.187.191 (talk) 21:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

A comment was added to the article stating that we don't need to cite Omar's retirement in the west Pacific because it is mentioned in Typhoon Omar. This is incorrect. The claim is cited in neither article and needs a reference regardless. Plasticup T/C 04:47, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

That sort of information isn't of a controversial nature, so it probably doesn't need a citation for now. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 13:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

The article should be called Hurricane Omar, not Hurricane Omar (2008).  There is no good reason for adding "(2008)" in the title, in my opinion, until/unless a subsequent hurricane with the same name becomes more important.  (I'd have moved the article myself, but the redirect page has more than one edit, so it will take an admin to make such a move.)  -- John Broughton   (♫♫) 21:48, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
There is no other Omar until 2014 or onward, but it doesn't appear that this storm is going to be that signifigant for the Virgin Islands. With Hurricane Ike, another storm in 2008, there is no other Hurricane Ike like Omar, but Hurricane Ike was signifigantly more notable than Omar, so this storm should be left with the "2008" for now because it was not signifigant unlike Ike was. Even the Typhoon Omar in 1992 was more notable than this storm, and because it isn't signifigant, this storm should be left with the "2008" for now. In other words, it is more obvious for Ike to be retired, but Omar is not an obvious retirement canidate.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.236.182.31 (talk) 22:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 

I'd say take off the (2008). The storm is quickly intensifying, it's a significant possibility that it could become a major hurricane before it passes through the V.I. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
True, it has intensified rather fast recently, but keep in mind hurricane force winds only extend 15 miles out from the center; therefore, it has to directly impact the Virgin islands to cause signifigant damage. If it passes even shortly between them then damage won't be very severe. There is only a slight possibility it will cause heavy damage because the strongest winds cover such a small area, and unless it directly makes landfall here, leave the (2008) with it. Otherwise, just leave it with the (2008) until we decide it shouldn't be there. No damages or deaths have been reported yet.

Remember, it's not always the winds that cause the most damage, Omar is forecast to drop up to 20 inches of rain in highly saturated areas, flooding is almost a definite. We wont know for sure until it passes. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 01:31, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree on leaving it as plain old Hurricane Omar, at least until another Omar is used. Because, as of right now, it's not really Hurricane Omar of 2008, its the Hurricane Omar. If you get what I'm saying. |C A I N E R||ninety-one| 02:10, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
If the current track holds, the eye and eyewall will miss land completely. CrazyC83 (talk) 02:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I get what you are saying, and Omar missed directly affecting the islands, so they did not get the strongest winds nor the highest rain, so I doubt the effects were severe. True, it is the only Hurricane Omar their is, but the impacts were not extreme; it's like leaving Tropical Storm Laura of 1971 as just Tropical Storm Laura, when there is no big point of leaving it as just Hurricane Omar. This is not a Marilyn or Hugo; it's more like a Klaus.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.236.182.31 (talk) 10:03, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 

Looking at damage reports, there is little chance of Omar being retired. The eye and eyewall remained in the water and the core was quite small (part of the reason that Omar collapsed this morning). CrazyC83 (talk) 17:41, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I highly doubt the name will be retired after this year, considering the lack of big impacts from Omar. I told you earlier, Omar was a small storm, and because it missed the islands, the impacts were light, despite it's extreme intensity, although all of the damage reports I saw were on St. Thomas. I am not sure if other islands, like St. Croix, suffered bad damage. We have to wait for the NHC's tropical cyclone report to come out before we can make a possible discussion about retirement. I'm not trying to say the name won't be retired after this year; i'm just saying the impacts were light, and it shouldn't deserve the main article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.236.182.31 (talk) 20:25, 16 October 2008 (UTC) 
The name Omar could be retired after this year, but I wouldn't count on it, so we should just wait until the WMO makes their announcement next Spring. 1999's Lenny was retired although not causing severe damage, and Omar could be retired, too, but the 330 million in damage from Lenny was just for our territories. For our info, Omar could have caused virtually no damage in our territories but billions in damage on the ABC's, so we just need to wait for now.76.235.206.88 (talk) 21:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
An estimate of damage now is 46 million, but that's just for Antigua and Dominica. There still is no damage report avaliable for the Virgins, Puerto Rico, and the ABC's. But I wouldn't expect damage there to be catastrophic, though.                                                 76.235.205.44 (talk) 23:52, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Official word from the NHC
ZCZC MIATCDAT5 ALL
TTAA00 KNHC DDHHMM
HURRICANE OMAR DISCUSSION NUMBER  12
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL   AL152008
500 AM EDT THU OCT 16 2008
AN AIR FORCE RECONNAISSANCE PLANE HAS BEEN PENETRATING THE EYE OF
OMAR AND MEASURED A PRESSURE OF 959 MB AND TWO SPOT WINDS OF 132
AND 124 KT AT FLIGHT LEVEL. THE CREW COULD NOT SAMPLE THE ENTIRE
EYEWALL DUE TO EXTREMELY HIGH TURBULENCE.  OBJECTIVE T-NUMBERS
OSCILLATED BETWEEN 6.5 AND 7.0 ON THE DVORAK SCALE DURING THAT
TIME. IT IS ESTIMATED THAT OMAR REACHED A PEAK INTENSITY OF 115
KNOTS EARLIER. HOWEVER...SINCE THEN...THE CLOUD PATTERN HAS
DETERIORATED AND HAS BECOME ASYMMETRIC. THE EYE IS NO LONGER
DISTINCT ON IR IMAGES AND THE MINIMUM PRESSURE HAS RISEN. THE
INITIAL INTENSITY IS SET AT 110 KNOTS. SOME FLUCTUATIONS
IN INTENSITY ARE LIKELY DURING THE NEXT 6 TO 12 HOURS OR SO BUT THE
GENERAL TREND IS FOR OMAR TO GRADUALLY WEAKEN AS ENCOUNTERS
STRONGER SHEAR. THE HURRICANE SHOULD BEGIN TO LOSE TROPICAL
CHARACTERISTICS IN 96 HOURS OR SOONER.  
Cyclonebiskit (talk) 10:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, and this estimation may be conservative. Winds of 132 knots at flight level supports 120 knots (132*09=118,8) and a T6.5 supports 125 knots (T6.5=127knots). The pressure is a little high (954 hPa estimated), but is not a problem. For exemple : Hurricane Ella We must wait the reanalysis to known the excat peak intensity of Omar, but he is the third category 4 of the season. Arh'lupia (talk) 11:34, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I edited the article to show this. Itfc+canes=me Talk Contributions 15:36, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
They mentioned in a discussion that Hernan's peak was likely 110 kt, but the TCR confirmed the advisory-set 105 kt. CrazyC83 (talk) 17:47, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

OMAR REACHED NEAR THE THRESHOLD OF CATEGORY 4 EARLY THIS MORNING AROUND 06Z [1] It was a strong category 3 hurricane at all. -Ramisses (talk) 20:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
You cant confirm anything with an estimate, in my opinion I think Omar should be classified as a strong Cat 3.Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:16, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

With the newer discussion stating that it was near, I do agree that it was 125mph at it's peak now. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:36, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
OMAR REACHED NEAR THE THRESHOLD OF CATEGORY 4 EARLY THIS MORNING AROUND 06Z refers to "300 AM AST THU OCT 16 2008
...OMAR RACING NORTHEASTWARD...WINDS INCREASED TO 125 MPH...."
Durig the travel of a hurricane, the NHC doesn't want to give an accurate idea of the hurricane's intensity. They only want to know where the hurricane would land, and emmit warnings and watchs. A diference betewen a powerfull hurricane categorie 3 and a weak category 4 doesn't exist for the populations.
And, no, it is not an estimate, it's a measurement. Winds of 124 and 134 knots at fligth levels were measured, and this is suffisant to upgrade Omar to category 4.Arh'lupia (talk) 11:25, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Until we have the official word from the TCR, Omar stays a Cat:3, that's also supported by the ATCF [2] Cyclonebiskit (talk) 11:49, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Also, I'm pretty sure the NHC doesn't give out a deliberately incorrect wind measurement. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 12:37, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
In theory they do, but not in this case. It may be incorrect when they say the intensity is "Conservative". Cyclonebiskit (talk) 12:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this has been like this the whole time, but the Best Track ( [3]) now has Omar's peak as 115 knots and 958 millibars. 24.222.132.196 (talk) 21:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
That's a recent change. I've done a simple update to include that, thanks. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:36, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Although no damage report has come out from the NHC, cant we just put "minimal" for damage? It didn't have an extreme impact.76.235.206.88 (talk) 21:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Probably not. We don't have anything to verify that the damage was minimal, so saying such would be original research. Cheers, –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 21:10, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Can you find any damage reports from Omar in the ABC's and Virgin Islands? I can't find any good damage figures, so I'm not sure if the damage was extreme. 76.236.187.191 (talk) 20:12, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

It might take some time to get figures out in the islands. Just wait for now. 76.236.187.191 (talk) 16:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
There were no severe damage reports I found, so it could be reasonable to put minimal for it's damage. 76.235.166.14 (talk) 22:48, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Why would this article need to be expanded? It appears just fine if you ask me. Why expand it?76.236.179.230 (talk) 21:14, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

It's rather short for a Category Three that struck land. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 12:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I know, but this hurricane didn't signifigantly affect land, so I don't think it should be expanded. This hurricane's article is no longer than Bertha's article earlier this year, and there is no "expand" on that storm. 76.236.187.191 (talk) 21:00, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

This is the most recent edit for Bertha's article, the size is in bold- (cur) (last)  14:16, 20 October 2008 Pilover819 (Talk | contribs) (15,326 bytes) (per TCR) (undo)
his is the most recent edit for Omar's article, the size is in bold- (cur) (last)  12:54, 29 October 2008 Cyclonebiskit (Talk | contribs) (7,580 bytes) (removed the hidden note for Expand template) (undo)
Omar's article is a little less than half the size of Bertha's, much smaller. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:03, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
(response to the removed question) I can expand this article quite a bit. First off the Lead needs to be 2-3 paragraphs long (Major hurricane that affected land). There are very few references, meaning not a lot of work has gone into looking for impact. There is no information on its impact in the Leeward Islands. Lastly, the Meteorological history is basically a stub section. Look at the MH for Tropical Storm Karina (2008) and then look at Omar's, What looks wrong there? Karina barely was around as a tropical system for two days and Omar was active as a tropical system for five and was a major hurricane. I would expand the MH myself but I'm obliged to the creation of another article by a request. Once I finish that, if I will gladly expand the MH for this article. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
That's another question I had. Why would you make main articles for Pacific hurricanes that aren't signifigant whatsoever? There's no point to it. 76.236.187.191 (talk) 23:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

It's for people are are interested in the specifics of a storm. Most people are happy with just the paragraph that a season article has, but some people want to know as much as they can. It also improves the main article as a whole, for a more complete record of the season. It's also personal interest on the creators part. It's allowed as long as there is enough information for the article and it's well written. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 23:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
It's dumb in a way; you don't need to be so specific with these storms. With Tropical Storm Karina, a good description of that storm is "A tropical Depression developed south of Mexico by September 2. It dissipated the following day. Karina had no effect on land". You shouldn't be that specific because it didn't affect any land. Why would you have to be so specific with this? Are you interested in knowing everything about a storm that never affected land? It's sort of like a waste of time. Storms like Elida, Hernan, and Karina don't need a main article because there are so many other Pacific Hurricanes that take the same track and reach the same intensity as these storms. 76.236.187.191 (talk) 20:20, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

You may not have much interest in storms that don't affect land, but others (myself included) do. With an encyclopedia, it's better to have a highly comprehensive article than have a one line summary which leaves you hanging. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

You are telling me a long-liuved major hurricane that was a FAC should be merged? Aso i have intrest in storms that did not effect land. Also,Hernan was at one piont this short, but that was nearly two mouths ago. Leave Message ,Yellow Evan home ,Sandbox[ 21:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
I only have a partial interest in storms which don't affect land, like with Hurricane Linda in 1997, because although that storm didn't affect land, it's extreme intensity catches my attention, but storms like Karina this year, don't. 76.235.166.14 (talk) 22:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Ok, it's been more than a month since this storm struck, and this article hasn't been expanded whatsoever. Is anyone out there going to expand this or what? 76.235.165.167 (talk) 03:43, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Somebody will get to it. There are 7,094,806 articles, and only a handful are GA or WP:FA, so we have have a couple million that need expansion. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 03:45, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
So it will take time to get expanded because other articles are being expanded? It says that Omar caused 35 million in damage to Dominica and 11 million to Antigua. That could go in the impact section; otherwise there is no need for that, just for an expansion idea. 76.235.165.167 (talk) 03:59, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

No, but with so many articles, it is impossible to expand them all. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 04:01, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You're wrong, Julian. We can expand them all, but it will take a very long time to do it. 76.235.165.167 (talk) 15:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

No, he's right. You can lose interest by overwriting articles. There are over 1,000 articles in the scope of WP:TC. The main reason behind the delay in expansion of this article is that the Tropical Cyclone Report hasn't been released. Once that is out, I'll make Omar my little project. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:20, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, I guess you're right on that. We could expand it soon, or now; it says thad Property damage in Dominica totaled to 35 million, and agricultural losses in Antigua totaled to 11 million. Both are backed up by references, and could be put in the impact section now, but as you said, we have tons of articles, and Omar will take some time to get to. 99.156.30.47 (talk) 13:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Damage reports are still coming out. The Virgin Islands, ABC's, and other areas. I'm not sure if it should be expanded now though... 76.236.191.27 (talk) 02:20, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm already working on it. However, I won't publish the expansion until it's complete. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 02:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

On the impact section of this article, it says "While the trade winds usually blow from east to west, and all major beaches lie on the Leeward side west of the ABC Islands, on October 14, Omar brought strong westerly winds which caused severe damage on the coasts, including a lot of power outages and downed trees. One direct death was confirmed in puerto Rico due to Omar." Shouldn't the direct death be put in the section with Puerto Rico's impacts from Omar rather than in the ABC Islands section? 76.235.217.70 (talk) 16:51, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Good point. I changed it. That shouldn't be here because it does not coorilate to that part of the impact section. This should be the case with all storms in the season, if there are any others.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.217.70 (talk) 17:19, 28 November 2008 (UTC) 

Why did you just reply to yourself? –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 20:02, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Why did you just interrupt someone's private public conversation with oneself? ;-) ~AH1(TCU) 01:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

...is located here.  Thegreatdr (talk) 13:39, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks DR. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
It just says Barbuda's damage was 18 million, what about Antigua? 76.236.191.27 (talk) 02:18, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

$37 million ($11 million property, $25 million agriculture) it's in the lead. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 02:20, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I have hidden the Simple English link for now, since it's still in the userspace and is almost exactly the same as the English article. I don't think we're supposed to link to userspace interwikis. Please wait until the article has been simplicified and moved to mainspace, then un-hide the interwiki link. Thanks. ~AH1(TCU) 01:28, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I can't update the article for several more hours as I'm going to be away from a computer. I will continue the expansion later today when I get home. Cyclonebiskit 13:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I removed the template, per its instructions, since it hasn't been significantly edited in about 11 hours.  Thegreatdr (talk) 15:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

And again, I don't know why there is no peak intensity images, since visible satellite can't capture the storm at night, why does it strength so fast and same with the weakening, one day earlier it was cat 1 and later was a cat 2 and looked like a frontal low, should there be a infrared image at peak intensity (not main image) the one it pass Leeward Is. don't show an clear eye, cat 1 image is far alike the peak intensity image. Hurricane Typhoon Cyclone 21:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a loop of the storm strengthening and weakening but I hid it so I could edit. I'll unhide it for now to let you see it. Cyclonebiskit 22:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
There is a NRL image of Omar which shows it in its peak intensity on Commons: File:Omar 16 oct 2008 0545Z.jpg. I know it is not the best pic of this hurricane, but it was the only that I found. -Ramisses (talk) 00:35, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
That one is actually the best. Hurricane Typhoon Cyclone 01:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Agreed, but that yellow line is rather distracting. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 01:59, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
[4] just testing the proposed image as the main image, doesn't look too good. Thumbnail doesn't show the eye. Maybe a colorized IR satellite image would be better... Cyclonebiskit 03:16, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
this [5] might look good, visible satellite might look better with more clear eye center. Hurricane Typhoon Cyclone 03:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Maybe, that could work for preps or something. I like this image too, but it's horribly off center sadly. Had it been centered, it would have been perfect [6] Cyclonebiskit 03:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
That image was token by Aqua satellite, we might find some good clue... Hurricane Typhoon Cyclone 03:50, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Aqua and Terra are polar orbiting so they're only going to have one good scan of the area per day. They are also timed to pick up during daylight hours. Since Omar intensified and peaked overnight, no good satellite pictures exist. I would keep the MODIS one in the infobox since it is still nice. Potapych (talk) 14:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Aqua pass close http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/single.php?orbitmap2.global.2008290.gif during the time URL of above 199.9.2.143/tcdat/tc08/ATL/15L.OMAR/ir/modis/1km/20081016.0555.aqua.x.ir1km.15LOMAR.65kts-985mb-211N-604W.100pc.jpg. Hurricane Typhoon Cyclone 03:54, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Radar may also be good as a thumbnail in the impact section. [7] Hurricane Typhoon Cyclone 04:31, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Nice, that image will work for the impact. It just needs to be cropped so the WUnderground logo isn't there. Cyclonebiskit 11:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Wunderground isn't free use, though... –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 13:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I'll ask Jeff Masters (WUnderground Admin) if we can use it. Cyclonebiskit 14:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
Actually, since it's a NEXRAD product, it might be in the public domain. Not sure. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 16:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if it is NEXRAD, unless it is from the Puerto Rico station out there. Potapych (talk) 20:34, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
If it's from Puerto Rico, it is part of the United States WSR 88D network.  Thegreatdr (talk) 21:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Another image taken during peak intensity. [8] Hurricane Typhoon Cyclone 20:31, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

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