# Talk:Edmund the Martyr

In 1966, three teeth from the collection of relics from France were donated to Douai Abbey.
This last sentence is incorrect.
In 1966 Archbishop Gabriel-Marie Garonne of Toulouse sent the Rev Bryan Richard Staples Houghton, the parish priest of St Edmund’s Catholic Church, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, three loose teeth from St Edmund’s upper jaw.
Source: Saint Edmund King and Martyr. 1970. P.83.  Bryan Houghton.  Published by Terence Dalton Limited   ISBN 900963182.
In the publication 'Christian Order' Bryan Houghton clarifies the statement made in his book:
“The three teeth at Bury. I had made all the arrangements with Cardinal Garonne and had hoped to be one of the “notaries” to verify the “translation” of the relics. We had even settled the date at which I was to be present at Toulouse. Unfortunately he had been appointed in the meantime to be the Prefect of the Congregation for Catholic Education in Rome. His overworked auxiliary transferred the relics at his convenience without waiting for me. He assured me that he had enclosed a properly certified “authentication” in the sealed box containing the three teeth....When I was P.P. of Bury St. Edmunds, the relics were duly incensed on St. Edmund’s Day on the Sunday within the Octave. At Benediction, the faithful duly kissed the box containing the relics. I had intended to erect a transparent safe beside the monument to St. Edmund. But time ran too fast for me.”
Christian Order - Read - Features - January 2013  www.christianorder.com/features/features_2013/features... Cached January 2013 . The Little Box from Toulouse The Relics of St Edmund  In 1966 a small wooden box arrived in Bury St ... 
Bryan Houghton retired as the parish priest of St.Edmund’s Parish on 29th November 1969, before he was able to complete this task. He settled in Viviers, France.
Before his death on the 29th.September 1992 in Montelimar, he returned to Bury St Edmunds. He took the little box containing the three loose teeth to Douai Abbey, Woolhampton, Berkshire ,a Benedictine community, for safe keeping. This fact was confirmed the Geoffrey Scott, Abbot of Douai on the 29th.September 2012.
Rt Rev Dom Geoffrey Scott - Catholic Diocese of Portsmouth ... www.portsmouthdiocese.org.uk/directory/person/875.htm User:Michael Peyton
The text above was incorrectly placed in the article and I have moved it to Talk. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:12, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

This article uses footnote-style references but, with the exception of a recent addition, does not use the {{sfn}} / {{harv}} templates, which provide convenient links for the reader from each footnote to the cited source in the bibliography section.  Unless there are objections I propose to convert the existing references to use the harv & sfn templates.  Thoughts? Wham2001 (talk) 11:37, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

As the editor who added the sfn ref, I obviously would be happy with the change. I prefer the sfn format to the harv one, but that is a personal preference. Is there a reason you suggest using both? Dudley Miles (talk) 13:40, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Dudley Miles sorry, I wasn't clear; I was intending to use {{sfn}} unless it was necessary to use {{harv}}.  I generally prefer sfn because it's more compact, but there's the odd thing that, as far as I can tell, one can't do with it (e.g. two references to the same page of a source with different quotations or parenthetical notes). At a glance I don't see anything of that sort in this article, though.  Best, Wham2001 (talk) 16:10, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. I am not sure why sfn would ever be used for notes. I always use {{efn}}. Dudley Miles (talk) 16:20, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Since there have been no objections I'm going to get started on the conversion. Wham2001 (talk) 09:10, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Why does the second sentence say that he is incorrectly referred to as the first patron saint of England?  The reference cited does not say that.86.136.209.221 (talk) 21:10, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

This is an excellent question, and I am not sure how that got in there.  I am going to look around a bit, but if I don't find anything, I'll change it if someone hasn't either beaten me to the punch or substantiated that wording.  Thanks. Dumuzid (talk) 21:23, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
Cor to revisit this subject after all these years! Can I ask that everybody who hasn't to read through archive one of this topic and see the many many discussions about whether St Edmund was the Patron saint of England. There are enough reliable references to put forward that he was the patron saint of what was called England at the time. Happy to assist. Edmund Patrick –  confer 07:08, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Thank you Edmund Patrick, but whatever we decide about the truth value of the claim, it is certainly the case that the current citation does not support the sentence as worded.  Do you think the sentence should be reworded?  Or perhaps can suggest another source?  It would be appreciated!  Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 12:35, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Definitely reworded as there are many acceptable sources for saying that he was the patron saint. I will put some here soon once real life allows me to.  Edmund Patrick –  confer 20:49, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

This article http://www.facesofarthur.org.uk/fabio/app3.htm relates the legend that Edmund was captured at Hoxne, Suffolk, and also says that according to an historic source he was killed in a place that sounds like modern Harleston. There is Harleston, Norfolk, and Harleston, Suffolk. Harleston, Norfolk, is not very far from Hoxne. Also, information board number eight, downloadable here, https://www.hoxnehistory.org.uk/HHW.php describes St Edmunds Cross on the site where a possible arrowhead was found in an ancient oak tree, and mentions a chapel to him built near his place of death. I do not have any historical knowledge or expertise so I cannot evaluate the probability of any of this being true. 92.24.184.68 (talk) 10:09, 5 September 2021 (UTC)