# Talk:Ellis Island

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Ellis Island. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc99/proceed/papers/pap138/p138.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101122121724/http://ellisislandimmigrants.org/ellis_island_archives.htm to http://www.ellisislandimmigrants.org/ellis_island_archives.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141106045425/http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/anthropology74/ce17a.htm to http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/anthropology74/ce17a.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110616213716/http://www.ifes.org/publication/ae70d81d78fa5026d8fca4e6fb92b5c3/Stewart_PR.pdf to http://www.ifes.org/publication/ae70d81d78fa5026d8fca4e6fb92b5c3/Stewart_PR.pdf
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nps.gov/elis/planyourvisit/maps.htm
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

@Djflem: this is part of a national monument, not a separate national monument called "Ellis Island National Monument". As per List of national monuments of the United States, the Statue of Liberty NM also includes Ellis Island, but we already have an article on Statue of Liberty NM. epicgenius (talk) 04:44, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

By the way, I am aware that Ellis Island is sometimes referred to as "Ellis Island National Monument". However, that's not a monument on its own, but an addition to the Statue of Liberty NM in 1965. The official website refers to Ellis Island as "Part of Statue of Liberty National Monument". To reduce confusion, only the main monument page, not its constituent parts, should have the categories "National Park Service National Monuments in..." That's why Statue of Liberty also no longer is categorized as a national monument, but Statue of Liberty National Monument is categorized as such. epicgenius (talk) 13:56, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I have read with much attention the question about the NY/NJ territorial division of the 1998 and I have noted 2 wrong maps on this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island#/media/File:EllisIslandMapOSM.png and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellis_Island#/maplink/0)
In both the maps the dotted boundaries of the NY enclave in the NJ State are wrong. In fact these maps IGNORE that the two states jointly negotiated a post-trial settlement for minor changes in 1999 to decide exactly where and how to draw the lines in accordance with the Supreme Court decision.
The EXACT and FINAL map is the FIGURE 10 in this document (https://web.archive.org/web/20141018003341/http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc99/proceed/papers/pap138/p138.htm)
In fact in 1998 the United States Supreme Court accepted the final map and New York was granted jurisdiction to 4.68 acres. This area includes almost all of the Main Immigration Building as well as portions of the Wall of Honor, baggage handling/dormitory building, power house and administration building (Figure 10). The New York portion of Ellis Island is landlocked, enclaved within New Jersey's territory. New Jersey has sovereign authority over the remaining 22.80 acres of the island that includes portions of the above buildings, the ferry house, and all of the 29 hospital and dormitory buildings located on the southern portion of the island.
Other 2 100% exact maps are: https://www.nps.gov/elis/learn/historyculture/maps.htm and http://www.schundler.net/Ellis%20Island%20Map%20Color.pdf 
I think that it is necessary TO REPLACE the 2 wrong maps with these 2 exact maps in this beautiful and detailed page of Wiki!
Thanks for the possible correction. 02:48, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

After some working days I corrected the wrong maps on this page of wiki and these are the 100% exact new maps:
https://ibb.co/qxYQqq7
https://ibb.co/wJXfkcv
Can someone to replace the wrong maps with these 2 new exact maps? Thanks. Forza NYCFC !! (talk) 19:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

They may be better than what we have but we probably need a better source. The second map you call 100% correct clearly states "Not to scale". Rmhermen (talk) 19:07, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
The EXACT, OFFICIAL and FINAL map is the FIGURE 10 in this document (https://web.archive.org/web/20141018003341/http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc99/proceed/papers/pap138/p138.htm)
The fundamental thing isn't to put my 2 maps (after a great hard work I hope that it will be possible....), but to correct the wrong dotted NY/NJ boundaries in the actual maps or however to eliminate them. Do you agree?
My only aim is to improve this fantastic page. Forza NYCFC !! (talk) 19:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

That link is to someone's essay about how GIS is being used in a real world example. It is not an official document. The image doesn't even have a claim of authorship. Who drew that map? Rmhermen (talk) 22:42, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
The U.S. Supreme Court issued its final decree and approved the boundary line as mapped by the NJDEP on May 17, 1999.
The Ellis Island case represented the first use of GIS to present and implement a boundary dispute before the U.S. Supreme Court.
The authors of this article are Richard G.Castagna, Lawrence L.Thornton and John M.Tyrawski. All three are experts of geography and above all coming from New Jersey, not NYC... The figure 10 illustrates the exact boundaries of NYC and NY State enclave in the New Jersey State on the Ellis Island.
The last summer I went at Ellis Island National Museum of Immigration in the Main Building and it is in NYC and therefore in the NY State (to see the official site https://www.nps.gov/elis/faqs.htm in the ELLIS ISLAND GEOGRAPHY paragraph) while the Baggage-Dormitory is only for a small porzion in the NY State. Instead in the actual maps on Wiki, if you see the dotted parts, it is exactly the opposite! 
In addition in these 2 maps there is also another error. In fact it there isn't a L shaped area of 2.089 squre feet near the Ferry Slip.

These maps IGNORE that the two states jointly negotiated a post-trial settlement for minor changes in 1999 to decide exactly where and how to draw the lines in accordance with the Supreme Court decision.
I think that it is necessary to correct them. Forza NYCFC !! (talk) 19:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Please download them to Wikimedia Commons, where they will be archived and availble for use Djflem (talk) 20:03, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
We still don't have a source for that map. Figure 10 does not claim to be "The EXACT, OFFICIAL and FINAL map". Perhaps we can unscramble the website name and see what journal this was published in. https://web.archive.org/web/20141018003341/http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc99/proceed/papers/pap138/p138.htm) Rmhermen (talk) 20:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
It's from the Environmental Systems Research Institute. It's a reliable source but it's copyrighted, so I'm not sure whether we can use it. The NPS map is public domain and already on Commons. It does seem that the current maps in the article are incorrect and need to come out. Station1 (talk) 21:08, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
In the meanwhile is it possible to replace these 2 maps (but also the first of the 2 maps in the New Jersey v. New York page) with these 2 my maps (https://ibb.co/qxYQqq7 https://ibb.co/wJXfkcv), with the official NPS map (https://www.nps.gov/elis/learn/historyculture/maps.htm) or at least to eliminate or simply to correct the actual maps from these 2 beautiful and very interesting Wiki pages? Forza NYCFC !! (talk) 23:50, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Forza NYCFC !!, I think it would be possible. It would be preferable if these were in SVG format but that is not a requirement. This link, which you mentioned on my talk page, is a reliable source as is ESRI. Feel free to upload them to Commons and post the photos here. epicgenius (talk) 03:23, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
In the meantime, I've replaced the first incorrect map with the public domain NPS map. If Forza NYCFC !! is the creator of the two maps at ibb.co and uploads them to Commons, or if some other better map comes along, we can replace it. Station1 (talk) 16:34, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I have corrected caption to correspond with decision. Natural island was smaller.Djflem (talk) 19:04, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I uploaded them on Wikimedia Commons.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NYC_enclave_in_Ellis_Island.png
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_York_City_enclave_in_Ellis_Island.png
I hope that it will be possible to post them also on this page (to put the first photo and above all to use the second photo to replace the wrong actual photo). Forza NYCFC !! (talk) 18:32, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
I am very happy that after my suggestions also OpenStreetMap has fixed the error:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/40.69940/-74.03999&layers=N Forza NYCFC !! (talk) 22:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
Also here(https://viewer.nationalmap.gov/advanced-viewer/) it is perfect. Now it is ABSOLUTELY necessary to correct it on Google Map/Satellite and Google Earth. Can anyone to report to Google this serious error? I can't find their email. Forza NYCFC !! (talk) 02:48, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

From the "Immigration procedures" section: "At first, the majority of immigrants arriving were Northern and Western Europeans, with the largest numbers coming from the German Empire, the Russian Empire and Finland, the United Kingdom, and Italy.[299] Eventually, these groups of peoples slowed in the rates that they were coming in, and immigrants came in from Southern and Eastern Europe, including Jews."
This suggests that Jewish immigrants were largely from Southern and Eastern Europe. In fact, the largest number came from the Russian Empire, which indeed included much of southern and eastern Europe, but vast numbers of Jews had come in the "at first" period: from places now in Lithuania, Poland and Belarus, all in the Russian Empire and definitely not in southern Europe. Will try to come up with a more felicitous expression.Roger.Lustig (talk) 17:38, 20 February 2023 (UTC)