# Talk:Manganese

i.e. different phases
density, crystal structure, mp, bp...
very odd.  if i have time one day i will try add some.
there are MANY cool facts:
two phases of solid manganese metal are VERY complex
https://www.atomic-scale-physics.de/lattice/struk/mn.html
https://www.isis.stfc.ac.uk/Pages/Solving-a-20-Year-Mystery-The-Frustrating-Case-of-%C3%9FManganese.aspx
https://eprints.nmlindia.org/5609/1/3-28.PDF Wikiskimmmer (talk) 22:36, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

@Wikiskimmer: You can add this information yourself under Manganese#Physical_properties. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:59, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
it's been a long time.  i forget how to do all the wiki things! Wikiskimmmer (talk) 07:07, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
@Wikiskimmer:The difficult part is the content, the "wiki things" can be dealt with by many people.  Its subject-expertise that Wikipedia most fervently seeks, not editing technique. --Smokefoot (talk) 13:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
ugh!  writing takes so much effort.  ok, here goes Wikiskimmmer (talk) 17:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
also, i TOTLY missed that there are a ton of physical facts on the box to the right! Wikiskimmmer (talk) 17:39, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The allotropes are super interesting with their crazily complex unit cells. I just added a section on allotropes. Please add or repair as needed. –MadeOfAtoms (talk) 11:36, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Added to wikidata.
α-manganese (Q116486242)
β-manganese (Q116486272)
γ-manganese (Q116486277)
δ-manganese (Q116486285)
DePiep (talk) 12:23, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
thanks!  looks cool. Wikiskimmer (talk) 19:42, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


### Manganese
Double sharp (greetings to Double sharp) gave the honor of the first discoverer to Kaim (1770) on Wikipedia. Others say that it was Scheele with his friend Gahn (1774). I understand that Kaim did it earlier, but the source implies his discovery was not fully confirmed, right? It turns out that Kaim was one of those who discovered manganese... What can we do?

Tosha Langue (talk) 17:28, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Tosha Langue: Thanks for prompting me to investigate this further! RSC credits Kaim too, and Venetskii in 1966 said there were grounds to believe he was first, though some details are missing. The Pergamon volume on group 7 says In 1770 J. G. Kaim heated pyrolusite with black flux and obtained a regulus, but it was not until 1774 that the great Swedish chemist, C. W. Scheele, realized that the ore and its extracts contained a new element. Although Scheele made this discovery he did not succeed in isolating the metal, and this was achieved by J. G. Gahn the same year. However in 2020 a historical study of Scheele and Bergman wrote It is possible that manganese had been prepared before Scheele’s studies. It is, for example, possible that Kaim prepared manganese in 1770 [and here Kaim's original work, which I can't consult, is cited], but his results are unverified and gained little recognition.
I think now that it's probably best to hedge Kaim's claim with a word like "possibly" or "probably". Double sharp (talk) 02:33, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

See “Pentacarbonylhydridomanganese”. On said article’s talk page, i posted a complaint about said article. Solomonfromfinland (talk) 01:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Manganese/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Keresluna (talk · contribs) 16:58, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
Reviewer: Reconrabbit (talk · contribs) 20:25, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
Hello, I saw this nomination on my watchlist, so of course I had to jump on it immediately. I'm happy to work on this review. Will keep working over the week. Noting here: I see you have only made 7 edits to the article over 2 days; most of the other major authors have not made edits in a while, so I'll assume the nomination is without major issue there, but are you confident that the sources used throughout the article are reliable and support the information within in this time? -- Reconrabbit 20:25, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for taking on this review. Did not expect the review to be taken up so immediately. I will try to respond ASAP, but may take up to 3 days to reply to a comment. Keres🌕Luna edits! 21:09, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
Understandable, I'm not asking for a quick response. It will take me a while to review as well. -- Reconrabbit 22:07, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
I've gone through and added some links in addition to minor copyediting. Still working through it though. -- Reconrabbit 18:28, 17 April 2025 (UTC)
Finished with reviewing the text. I don't have access to many of the cited sources right now but can check tomorrow hopefully. -- Reconrabbit 21:29, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
@Keresluna: While I still have a couple issues with the text—some use of primary sources and potential for expansion in history/applications—this article looks like it meets the GA criteria now. Thanks for your hard work. -- Reconrabbit 16:00, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Thank you for your review and time! Keres🌕Luna edits! 16:05, 5 May 2025 (UTC)


### Prose
#### Characteristics
What is meant by difficult to fuse?
Clarified.
I think it's safe to just say "water" instead of water containing dissolved oxygen, because the latter sentence is more likely to invite confusion. The citation on that one needs to be expanded, as well. A rare exception to the otherwise very good referencing style.
Usage of Template:Britannica. Do we really need a full citation? Also, pure water does not rust iron, and requires dissolved oxygen to rust. I think this mention is required.
Okay, that makes sense.
Because of its relatively short half-life, 53Mn is relatively rare, Remove one of these relativelys so it's clearer which thing it's relevantly relative to.
Done.
58 atoms per cell (29 atoms per primitive unit cell) in four different types of site can primitive unit cell be linked or explained, as well as the meaning of "site" in this context?
It is easily obtained as a metastable phase at room temperature by rapid quenching Can rapid quenching be explained? Easily obtained from what form/phase/material?
Both above comments resolved.


#### Chemical compounds
Common oxidation states of manganese are +2, +3, +4, +6, and +7, although all oxidation states from −3 to +7 have been observed. Manganese in oxidation state +7 is represented by salts of the intensely purple permanganate anion  MnO−4. These sentences have no citation and are not supported by the reference at the end of the paragraph, which only briefly discusses permanganate and its applications.
Ref added.
Complexes of Mn(IV) are well known, but they require elaborate ligands. What makes them "well" known? The ligands for this particular complex might be elaborate, but is that true for all of them?
Elaborated and added another ref.
Simple derivatives of Mn3+ are rarely encountered but can be stabilized by suitably basic ligands. "Basic" is a loaded term to use here.
Word change and wikilinked.
Manganese(II) commonly exists with a high spin, S = 5/2 ground state because of the high pairing energy for manganese(II). Explain high spin, S = 5/2, and find a way to describe manganese(II) without repeating it within the same sentence.
@Reconrabbit: Linked high-spin to Spin states (d electrons), replaced S = 5/2, and cleaned up sentence. Any more comments? Keres🌕Luna edits! 16:39, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
Nothing else here. -- Reconrabbit 14:57, 23 April 2025 (UTC)


#### History
The sentence starting Scheele and others were aware... doesn't need to be isolated in its own paragraph. The note on Gahn is supported by Miśkowiec 2022, which discusses Kaim briefly (supporting the sentence Kaim also may have reduced manganese dioxide to isolate the metal, but that is uncertain), so that may be a good place for it.
I actually brought the sentence which discusses Kaim down with the Scheele and others were aware... sentence—also added a ref to support the Braunstein ore and MnO2 connection.
manganese dioxide was widely used as the cathodic for commercial disposable dry batteries Should this be "cathode" or is "cathodic" correct here?
Cathode is correct. Fixed.
The last sentence on steel production might be better placed in the Applications section.
I would keep it in history, as applications should be only for modern or kind of modern uses.


#### Occurrence
The last sentence Manganese is mainly mined in South Africa, Australia, China, Gabon, Brazil, India, Kazakhstan, Ghana, Ukraine and Malaysia could be expanded from its source to give more details. That, or it could be incorporated into the previous paragraphs. Single-sentence paragraphs are awkward.
Sentence moved backward.


#### Production
There should be more context to start this section. Why is ferromanganese relevant? Can it be explained why this product is more important to describe than pure manganese, which appears just after this? (Ex. Is ferromanganese the main form of manganese as it is used commercially?)
Not resolved yet, but rearranged the occurrence and production section.
Resolved. Ready for more comments. Keres🌕Luna edits! 18:49, 23 April 2025 (UTC)


#### Applications
Manganese(IV) oxide (manganese dioxide, MnO2) is used as a reagent in organic chemistry for the oxidation of benzylic alcohols (where the hydroxyl group is adjacent to an aromatic ring). This sentence is missing a citation.
The sentence(s) starting with In both cases of nickel and dollar, the use of manganese in the coin have no citation.
Both above resolved.


#### Human health and nutrition
Nothing significant to note, though this is an awkward section heading when "Health and safety" comes soon after.


#### Exposure
Compared to 1953, levels of manganese in air have dropped. Is this comparison "current levels"? The source is from 2012.
Reworded.
diminished lactate dehydrogenase leakage Is there a more accessible/less technical way to describe this and why it's detrimental
Is there any information on regulation of manganese outside the U.S.?
Both resolved.


#### Health and safety
Is manganism described as "rare" in the sources used? I can't find this description anywhere.
Additional ref added.
The subheadings in this section could be rearranged so that the hazard infobox is at the top of the section.
Moved.


### References
Layout: All in order using {{Reflist}}, though the subheading for "Sources" is awkward (though I can't rightfully complain about that because it's my fault anyway). No other notes Y


#### Spot checking
Checking 20 references (~15%). Footnote numbers based on this revision:

Copyright: Parts of this were probably reverse-copied to this site [1]. Some phrases appear to be copied from [2] but the licensing implies that it could also be a reverse copy. [3] provides attribution to Wikipedia and can be ignored.


### Scope
Broad: The expected relevant sections appear in this article on a chemical element, and as it is particularly toxic in some forms there is sufficient detail on human and environmental health with regards to manganese exposure. Y
Narrow: I would expect to see some mention of the role of manganese in the early 20th century as part of steelmaking, World War I, and its history. One source (Blanc, 2018) states "manganese was unearthed from American deposits in such quantities that the market was overstocked with the ore and the alloys in the latter part of 1918". Y


### Stability
Neutrality: Fair representation of the subject, unbiased towards particular areas of history, discoverers, applications (besides the lack of regulatory information outside the US, but this is covered under a note on criteria 1). Y
Edit warring: Article sees occasional disruption, but no major changes against consensus form of the article that have not been discussed on the talk page. As it sees no more disruption than any other element article, marking the stability as Y OK.


### Images
Free/Fair use: Images variously use Free Art License, CC-BY-SA 4.0, 3.0, 2.5, 2.0, 1.0, GNU 1.2 licenses, some are Public Domain, and all are believable or sourced. Y
Relevance:
Unit cells make sense for more complex allotropes; phase diagram makes sense there. Compounds are well represented by the solid MnCl2 and KMnO4 solution. Placement of Gahn and cave paintings in "history" is appropriate. Naturally occurring forms of manganese are well placed. Use of English text is a bit awkward in the process flow diagram but I don't see an easy way to replace it; any changes are out of scope. Combat helmet and nickel appropriate examples for "applications", but the 5 cent coin could be placed slightly later in the section to be better placed with the paragraphs that discuss currency. Biomolecule is well placed (though araginase could be glossed as "the enzyme araginase"). Structure of MMT is about as good as you can get to represent this chemical in "Exposure", but the ball and stick model File:MMT-3D-balls.png is also an option. For all of the above, Y
Image of nickel moved to match content. Keres🌕Luna edits! 21:09, 15 April 2025 (UTC)
 Global production may be better placed in the following section (Production), even though the main locations it's mined are listed under "Occurrence". Don't want to create excess clutter though and it's relevant to both sections.