# Talk:Lesbian

I met a normal lesbian mayra  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ~2025-35675-59 (talk) 17:50, 22 November 2025 (UTC) 

Wikipedia Page History Statistics
http://vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl

project: en.wikipedia
page: Lesbian  | or |  page: Talk:Lesbian
Pyxis Solitary  (yak yak). Ol' homo. 10:58, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

This article is organized in a way that splits pre-sexology history and post-sexology history, both for unclear reasons and in a misleading way. 
There is one section of "Female homosexuality without identity in western culture", which extends to the early 1900s despite other information in the article stating that there was a word for a lesbian in the English language by the mid-1800s. 
The article then transitions to "lesbians in western culture", implying that lesbians have now collectively developed an identity, despite mentioning figures (e.g. djuna barnes) who explicitly disavowed identifying as lesbians, and ongoing discussion in the article of the need for terms like WSW due to the fact that many lesbians or women practicing lesbian behavior do not "identify" as lesbians. 
It also folds together Native North American lesbians into colonial Latin American societies and keeps it under a separate section from the rest of USian culture, which I just think is odd and difficult to navigate. 
My proposed organization for greater clarity would be 
-History of lesbianism
--Ancient Greece
--Ancient Rome
--Ancient Americas 
--Early Europe
--Modern Western Society (1400s-present day) (with appropriate subheadings) 
--Middle East
--Latin America
--Native North America
--Africa
--Asia Seven77seas (talk) 02:01, 23 September 2025 (UTC)

It's been a month and half with no reply, so I'm going to assume this is not objectionable and go ahead with the change. Seven77seas (talk) 01:14, 13 November 2025 (UTC)

Following up this archived discussion, there are still uncited statements in the article, overly detailed information that can be spun out, and the lead doesn't summarise all major aspects of the article. @Pyxis Solitary and Seven77seas: or anyone reading this: are you still interested in working on this? Of course, there is no obligation to do so. Z1720 (talk) 15:45, 9 November 2025 (UTC)

I'd like to continue working on condensing the article -- spinning out information to relevant other articles, fact-checking statements, etc. (in collaboration with anyone else who would, of course). Seven77seas (talk) 19:58, 11 November 2025 (UTC)
Alright, I got a bit obsessive about this project in the last few days, and I hope the biggest issues, and the issues that made the article no longer Good, have been addressed. All citation needed tags have been addressed, writing has been condensed down to 12k words (without, I hope, sacrificing thoroughness), and the lead section has been rewritten after approvals from a couple other users on the Talk page.
One remaining issue with the article organization is the "history" section contains information dating into the modern day (e.g. on corrective rape in south africa). It could be useful to entirely merge and retitle the two sections (history/legal rights), or else to set a cutoff date for what is "history", move information that's more modern than that to the legal rights section, and flesh out a more "modern day social issues and legal issues" section for the present-day information. (Since the article is worldwide, I'm also having trouble organizing the geographic areas AND time periods simultaneously. But that's another fish.)
As another suggestion, for either my future self or another editor: different religions are a major cause of contention over lesbian topics in various societies, and the article doesn't half mention them. I think it would make sense to add a Lesbianism and World Religion section, very briefly reviewing different religions' past and current views on lesbians/lesbianism/women(implicitly), from islam to dianic wicca to catholicism and back again; the article would need to be condensed or spun out elsewhere to make room for this paragraph or two, and the place the article still tends to ramble on the most is in the nitty-gritty details of european and white american history.
I'm going to log off for a bit. I plan to check back in when I'm feeling less wikiholic and have worked down my to-do list. Have fun, yall. Seven77seas (talk) 05:30, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
I think your edits have been very constructive and, more importantly, respectful of the subject. You have managed to balance the need for condensing the volume of text with the need to provide useful and accurate information.  (I wish I could dedicate as much time as you have dedicated towards improving this article, but unlike how I tackled articles in the past, I can no longer take on projects that require heavy research and a pointed focus.)  I should have said it earlier, but, thank you the concentration you have devoted to this article and how you have edited it. Pyxis Solitary  (yak). ⚢ 09:33, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
That's very kind of you, thank you. I want information on lesbian culture to be thorough and accurate, and I am glad I've been able to contribute. I appreciate your work, past and ongoing, maintaining the article! Seven77seas (talk) 00:18, 19 November 2025 (UTC)
I think most of the uncited text has been resolved. The remaining concerns I have are the length of the article and merging the one-sentence paragraphs together. Z1720 (talk) 15:11, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

It was pointed out that the current, brief introductory section doesn't cover all the areas of the article. Here's my attempt at summarizing the various sections more thoroughly, and to simplify the second sentence, which I found difficult to read: 
"A lesbian is a homosexual woman or girl. The word is also used as an adjective for women in relation to their experiences, regardless of their orientation; or as an adjective to associate nouns with female homosexuality.
The term lesbian is a derivative of the island of Lesbos, the Greek island home to ancient poet Sappho. Relatively little in history was documented to describe women's lives in general or female homosexuality in particular. The earliest mentions of lesbianism date to at least the 500s BC, when Sappho's poetry was published.
Lesbian relationships and attractions, along with gender nonconforming behaviors more often displayed by lesbians, have been treated in different ways throughout different ages and cultures. While there is a longer documented history of lesbian behavior and relationships throughout different cultures, the idea of a 'lesbian' as a category of person distinct from other women emerged in Europe around the turn of the 19th century. Lesbians' current rights vary widely worldwide, ranging from severe abuse and legal persecution to general acceptance and legal protections. 
Modern polls often estimate lesbians to be 1-3% of the population (i.e., 2-6% of women). Lesbian social movements often advocate for legal changes, such as protections against discrimination in the workplace; legal acceptance of same-sex sexual activity or relationships; legal civil unions or marriages; and the right to maintain custody of their children or to adopt children; as well as for cultural, familial, and religious acceptance or lesbian orientations and relationships." Seven77seas (talk) 01:14, 13 November 2025 (UTC)

The lead above looks good to me. Pyxis Solitary  (yak). ⚢ 05:09, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply; I've made the change, with a couple minor edits. Feel free to take a look. Seven77seas (talk) 05:07, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
A big improvement. I'd suggest breaking up that last sentence. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:41, 13 November 2025 (UTC)
Hm, yeah, I agree. Thanks for your reply. I shortened the last sentence, used parentheses, and made the change on the article. Feel free to take a look. Seven77seas (talk) 05:08, 14 November 2025 (UTC)