# Talk:Campaign of Grodno

This review is transcluded from Talk:Campaign of Grodno/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Feitlebaum (talk · contribs) 22:57, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This article needs lots of work in the prose area. All you need to do now is expand the lead. Piotr brought up something that I had missed that is worrying me. I am now requesting a second opinion from a more experienced review.
Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors: 

It looks a lot better. Thanks for your copyediting work, Volunteer Marek!
B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists: 
The lead needs major expansion for an article of this size.
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section: 
The reference section looks good.
B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary: 
Lots of citations. Good job with that! Piotr's issue concerned this area.Just fixed.
C. No original research: 
No original research as far as I can tell.
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects: 
I would like some expansion, but this article does cover all the major aspects of the conflict.
B. Focused: 
This article remains focused on its subject.
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias: 
It seems to offer roughly equal coverage to both sides.
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc: 
This article's main contributor seems to be the nominator, with a small edit or two from other users.
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content: 
All of the images are from Commons and are free.
B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions: 
Perhaps you could expand those image captions a bit; otherwise, they look pretty good.
Overall:
Pass or Fail: 
If anybody disagrees with me, I will certainly consider your opinion. Hopefully someone else will catch something I didn't.
Happy editing!
Working on the prose... Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:03, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
I did a thorough - but "one pass" - copy edit of the article and expanded the lede a little bit. Can we have an update when possible? Volunteer Marek (talk) 12:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Piotrus: Wikipedia cannot be used as a source, and footnotes should not be confused with references. Please fix Campaign_of_Grodno#cite_note-sweruslosses-2. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:58, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
Comment by jrcrin001: I see the problem as mentioned by Piotrus. There are two general formats often used in Wikipedia for references. 1) All source citations inline as references and cited in the reference section. 2) References that cites specific pages of sources (like books) that are called notes that are fully cited in the reference section. You use the latter. When the former (1) is used, this allows for another type of note section for comments and observations. These are in essence footnotes. These foot notes do not directly belong in the article or reference section but are often helpful to the reader. For an example, please see: Louis H. Carpenter#Notes. I hope this helps. Jrcrin001 (talk) 06:03, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I'll try to get that fixed either by removing the footnote (I'm not sure it's necessary) or by following jrcrin001's suggestion.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:32, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
The reference was just fixed. Congrats to everyone, especially Imonoz and VoluteerMarek! Feitlebaum (talk) 02:25, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

As far as the lede adequately summarizing the article, I think it's "almost there" for the GA. Right now it summarizes the essence of the conflict and the outcome. What's missing is the main reason for why the plan failed. Right now we have: this was the allied plan, this is what it tried to achieve, but Charles outmaneuvered it, and this is what actually happened. The part that's missing is the turning point, or in other words, the reason for why the plan failed. From my reading of the article (and while I have some familiarity with the subject, it's very general and I'm mostly just copy editing here) the key to the Swedish success was the ability to march and transfer troops very quickly and surprise the allied forces. I hesitate to make that change because I want to make sure that this was in fact the key factor. Imonoz, is that about right? If so, we can expand the lede a bit more to put that in there and then I think we're good to go.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:04, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

The absolute turning point of the campaign was the battle of Fraustadt against Rehnskiöld. That's when the plan failed since the main Saxon army and Agustus would after they beat Rhenskiöld move and engage Charles in the rear simultaneously as he was engaged at the front in Grodno. Until that battle the plan worked in the allies favor, after however, when Peter of Russia got notified about the defeat he ordered the Russian troops at Grodno to retreat. Imonoz (talk) 11:21, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
The article was just passed. Congrats! Feitlebaum (talk) 02:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)