# Talk:Livin' la Vida Loca

Let's be consistent about the spelling of the title, shall we? Capitalising the "la" is rediculous. Besides as "la vida loca" is Spanish and Spanish uses a rule of only capitalizing the first (unless already in capitals) letter of the title I think we should call it "Livin' la vida loca". I prefer "Livin'" over "Living" and "Livin" as it reflects both pronunciation and ommitance of a letter (which is a general rule in English, akin to having a apostrophe in "don't").

Not knowing anything about this song, how can a 1999 hit single be remade in 1996?
Also, there is some bad markup showing above/below the succession box.

I mean what does livin' la vida loca mean?217.132.195.141 (talk) 10:12, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

It already says at the top "(English: Living the Crazy Life)", which is hilarious, because one part of it was translated from Spanish, but they also translated the "Livin'" part (which I guess is not English?) into proper English. --76.91.63.71 (talk) 06:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Debut Hot shot Latin Songs number #2
Debut Hot shot Latin Pop Songs number #1


### Debut chart
Debut Hot shot Hot 100 number #54
Debut Hot shot Latin Songs number #2
Debut Hot shot Latin Pop Songs number #1


##### chart(1999)
### Year-end charts
http://www.officialcharts.com/features/official-charts-flashback-1999-ricky-martin-livin-la-vida-loca-3157/

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The cited reference doesn't seem to mention this song but rather La Copa de la Vida.  Is there a source for this?  -KaJunl (talk) 02:28, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

and about Latin America sales, if you don't have information, there wasn't single certifications in Latin America in 90s and early 2000s. You can just check Mexico certifications and take back and see when the first singles was certified in mexico.
You really think "Livin' la Vida Loca" has sold less than "Tiburones" and "Perdoname"?!
Just think about it 😐
If Mexico had charts and certifications those year, we had much more certifications, but now it doesn't mean that it hadn't sold anything in Mexico 😐 
Also you can check this link:
https://charts.youtube.com/artist/%2Fm%2F01w61th?date_end=2020-08-06T00%3A00%3A00Z&location=0x84043a3b88685353%3A0xed64b4be6b099811&hl=en-gb
And check its music video views since last year in Mexico. You can compare it with some of his biggest hits in mexico like "Pégate" and "Tu Recuerdo". (Both certified for selling 400,000 sales in the country)
Why an older music video and song has even a better performance in Mexico now, if it wasn't a hit in Latin America?!
It's really simple, please just think about sth and then write "The single performed well only in his first year of release" about a song that is still performs well 21 years after realese :/
آرمین هویدایی (talk) 05:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

@آرمین هویدایی: "there wasn't single certifications in Latin America in 90s and early 2000s." It's not that. Singles always was essentially sold in US, Canada, Japan and European markets, that's why created singles certifications never was a priority in latin countries, they're are not selling a lot there and 90% of them were merely use for promo. And one thing is to say this song appeared some weeks in Latin charts of the Billboard, another is to say it sold millions because of that. It sold "only" 500,000 in US between its release to 2011, the amount of stremings it has probably is not enough to say it sold another 500,000 in US or 3, 4 or 5 millions around the world, that 8 million claim is completely exageratted even when we compared to Girlfriend (Avril Lavigne song) which the article claim 7,3 million sold and its certs and sales make you believe that.--88marcus (talk) 06:13, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
The song has two music videos: 307m views + 29m views
And has 165 streams on spotify.
So we have a total of +500m streams.
You can check charts.youtube.com and check that sth about 12.8% of its views are from the US. (Ok it's just for last year and not exactly, but we just want an estimation for now)
So the song has sth about 64m on-demand streams from the US (even without Apple Music and Tidal)
And it could have easily sold more than 400k copies based on streams in the US itself.
As I sent you the charts the song was in the "Year-End" of Latin Sales charts. I don't know how much was that, but being on year-end charts for 10 years means something.
That 500k is only for digital sales, from about 2005. What about its phyisical sales, what about 2011-2020 digital sales (while it's literally on charts) and that at least 400k sales based on streams.
These are just US sales. The song is almost always on iTunes UK chart. (For example, now!)
I'm not saying these are too much now, but the longevity it had means it was a big hit in the first years of release and had much physical sales.
And we can't compare to Avril, cause first Ricky Martin is a latino and we don't have any data from his Latin America sales (while it's not low for sure)
And second, just certification doesn't mean everything. You can just look at Ricky Martin's latest songs himself.
"No Se Me Quita" is certified latin platinum in RIAA while "Vente Pa' Ca" is not. Compare the chartings and youtube views and streams. It's a joke if someone thinks "No Se Me Quita" has sold more than "Vente Pa' Ca" only because they have paid to update "No Se Me Quita"'s certification and nothing has done for "Vente Pa' Ca"
We can't compare only based on certifications. The song sold 1.1m physical copies in 1999 and so you mean suddenly "Nothing" in 2000 & 2001?! آرمین هویدایی (talk) 07:21, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
And why don't you compare with Bailamos?
The song in the same year and from a same-genre artist. It sold 400k less than Livin' la Vida Loca in 1999 itself and never appered on charts in 2010s and its music video has only 30m views. While it's written 5 million copies for that!
From these thing I don't mean Livin' la Vida Loca sales are 5-6 million sales in 2010s 😐
I just mean it's a stable hit and while it's still performing well if you compare it to other 1999 hits, for sure at least in 2000 & 2001 it had a lot of "Physical Sales" worldwide which can make you beleive it that it wasn't just selling in the first year of release!
آرمین هویدایی (talk) 07:21, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

I also agree with @88marcus:. 8 million seems highly inflated. I found at least one source indicating 5 million copies for "Livin' la Vida Loca", which are closest to its certifications/available sales (+ 3 million). According to Vibe: “ Livin ' la vida Loca , " sold more than 5 million copies . (Vol. 13, issues: 7-12, pag. 122. 2005). My 2cents is we can use that source. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:46, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
I agree with the inclusion of the 5 million @Apoxyomenus: found. Do you agree @آرمین هویدایی:?
--88marcus (talk) 19:55, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Well as I explained you yesterday, I think 8 million copies is not inflated, even if it was before, now with including digital sales and streams, it's not inflated anymore. I also compare this to another hit by a latin artist, Shakira's "Whenever, Wherever". The certified units are not very different and also both of the songs are stable hits and performed well in digital sales and streaming platforms, while "Whenever, Wherever" has sold 8.5 millions, "Livin' la Vida Loca"'s 8 million would be comparable.
I said that we don't have any data from Latin America sales those years and for sure these international songs had a good performance in Latin America. (While they are still doing well as an old song)
BUT if you don't agree with 8 million copies & so many references that are saying this, I also do not agree with one reference from 2005, cause it's too low comparing with other physical era hits with the same situation and also with new sales within last 15 years, for sure it has been growed.
So I think we can at least simply ignore it and just tell the certified units (without any estimations or exact number if we are not sure)
While also most of other Ricky Martin's hits articles don't include an exact number of his sales (The Cup of Life, Vente Pa' Ca, La Mordidita & Adrenalina as a few examples)
So with respect I will remove this part. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 07:41, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Maybe we can put something like: "Livin' la Vida Loca sold 5 million as of 2005, becoming one of the best-selling singles worldwide". Personally, I don't think is appropriate remove his worldwide sales. At least, that song sold 5 million and is one of the best-selling singles in the world. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 17:43, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
I agree. And the 8 million copies is still inflated no matter what. There was no big sales for physical singles in Latin America back then, but if it was the contrary how many copies it could be sell? 2,000 in Uruguay and get Gold, 10,000 in Chile and get platinum and so on. Even in big markets like Mexico and Spain Ricky's 1999 CD sold around 250,000, how can it got millions with a single? Digital singles begun to sold well after the interest for Living La Vida Loco (promotional tour, TV shows etc) decrease, Rick had already other singles and albums and we can see why it sold 500,000 in US till 2011 (where it performed better). Streaming sales doesn't seem help either, it performed well but conclude that it sold millions and millions with streaming seems not accurate.--88marcus (talk) 19:16, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/2019/latin-pop-digital-song-sales
"The single performed well only in his first year of release" 😐😂
You can check that link and check it year by year! آرمین هویدایی (talk) 05:49, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Livin' la Vida Loca's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "tidal":
From Tiburones: "Tiburones / Ricky Martin". Tidal. Archived from the original on March 1, 2021. Retrieved April 10, 2020.
From Canción Bonita: "Canción Bonita / Carlos Vives, Ricky Martin". Tidal. Retrieved April 13, 2021.
From The Cup of Life: "La Copa de la Vida / Ricky Martin". Tidal. Retrieved May 14, 2020.
From Cántalo: "Cántalo / Ricky Martin". Tidal. Retrieved April 10, 2020.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 02:46, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

In this edit of mine I removed excess YouTube references, less important live performances, and less important cover versions. We are summarizing the important WP:SECONDARY sources for the reader, and trimming as much as possible to make a streamlined article. If someone sang the song on television, it's not automatically important to the topic. Not even if someone released the song as a single! The cover version should be observed by third party sources to be important to the topic. Binksternet (talk) 17:47, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

@Binksternet: Sorry that I saw this message late. About YouTube links in live performances section, I added it because Billboard article didn't mention what songs he performed, it was only about its date and place. So if you can find a better source to use, it would be great. But if not, can I just use those YouTube links as a source for the songs he performed. (without mentioning that they were uploaded on his YouTube channel.) آرمین هویدایی (talk) 09:33, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

I can see that salsa and rock have been added by آرمین هویدایی to the genre list in the infobox, based probably on Rolling Stone writing that the song is a "salsa-rock fusion track". To me, this seems like an outlier opinion, and in any case, the source is not explicitly saying that the song is salsa and rock.
Wikipedia is supposed to be a summary of WP:SECONDARY sources. Let's see what they say about this song's genre:

Rolling Stone – "salsa-rock fusion".
Billboard – "Latin crossover anthem... opened the door for the Latin pop explosion"
Instinct magazine – "gay favorite tracks" (referring to gay anthem which isn't a musical genre)
Interview magazine – "Latin music... Latin pop"
ETOnline – "Latin pop"
Mix Online – "Latino influence on mainstream pop music... ‘La Vida’ was definitely trying to be a pop song."
Consequence Film – "Latin pop"
Hal Leonard music publishing – "Latin pop"
HuffPost – "Latin crossover"
CNN – Latin music
Time magazine – Latin pop
BBC – Latin music, Latin pop
Note that a "crossover" hit is one that rises high on two different charts, one of which is usually a pop chart. In the case of this song, the two charts would be Billboard's Hot Latin and Hot 100. 
The sources mainly show Latin pop to be the song's genre. Latin pop should be all alone in the infobox. All the other genres can be mentioned in the article body, as minor viewpoints. Binksternet (talk) 04:24, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@Binksternet: Hi, I agree that the song is not salsa actually (at least as a main genere) and just added it based on Rolling Stone. But I think using "pop" is better than "Latin pop" here, since the song is in English not Spanish. (I know it has Latin music influences, but the main genre is pop.) About the charts, it also topped pop and dance charts, and it was the Spanish version that topped the Hot Latin Songs chart, not the original one. And that Latin pop crossover and Latin pop explosion that I mentioned in Legacy and influence section, is about the situation that happened in late '90s for Latin pop "artists", while their songs were in English.
In addition, let's not ignore the fact that it was regarded as "Latin pop" in wikipedia article (with no reference), before my edits and to be honest, there are many sources which use wikipedia content for their articles. (While Billboard is usually more accurate in music content and has named it simply "pop", as I mentioned in Music and lyrics section.) Since Latin pop is a subgenre of pop, saying pop won't be wrong neither. What do you think about it? آرمین هویدایی (talk) 07:10, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

I think you are trying too hard to avoid the obvious genre Latin pop by blaming it on circular reporting. Let's look at sources earlier than Wikipedia: Interview magazine called the song Latin pop back in 1999. CNN described the song as Latin in 1999,[1] and so did Time magazine.[2] In 2000, The New York Times said the song was Latin pop.[3] In 2004, Los Angeles Times said this song started the 1999 Latin pop explosion.[4] The BBC described the song in 2004 as having won the "Latin track of the year, top male Latin pop airplay track and top Latin album."[5]
These pre-Wikipedia sources are not affected by circular reporting. And AllMusic's Latin pop page mentions Martin's 1999 work as significant to the genre.[6] I think we must put Latin pop alone in the infobox. Binksternet (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
I also agree with Binksternet. Latin pop should be listed alone in the infobox per reasons given. Its weird to lump this single as a rock and salsa music and probably are just only minor viewpoints. Language is not entirely a problem, as there is others non-Spanish (Spanglish) songs with the tag of "Latin pop", mainly Portuguese, some Italian and even some English songs (see "La Isla Bonita", include pre-Wiki references). --Apoxyomenus (talk) 15:00, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
@Binksternet: It's no big deal for me, I just said my opinion and Latin pop is ok. I will change the sources. But most of those sources such as New York Times and Time are talking about Martin's genre (not the song) or "Latin pop explosion" that happened in late '90s and isn't about this song's genre. But ok, I will use Hal Leonard music publishing, that is specificly talking about "la Vida Loca" and describes it as Latin pop. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 05:11, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Here are some sources talking about the recording studio process to make this song. We should have a paragraph or two summarizing this information. Binksternet (talk) 04:36, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Billboard – " 'We've Crossed the Threshold': How Ricky Martin's 'Livin' La Vida Loca' Became the First No. 1 Song Made Entirely in Pro Tools"
Billboard again – "Livin' La Vida Loca"
Mix – "Recordin' 'La Vida Loca': The Making of a Hard Disk Hit"
AllMusic – Album credits

Sisqó settled out of court with the owners of "Livin' La Vida Loca" after he sampled their hit on his "Thong Song". Binksternet (talk) 04:41, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Complex – "Majority of Sisqó’s 'Thong Song' Publishing Owned by Writer of 'Livin’ La Vida Loca'"

This review is transcluded from Talk:Livin' la Vida Loca/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Some Dude From North Carolina (talk · contribs) 02:11, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Hey, I'm going to be reviewing this article. Expect comments by the end of the week. Some Dude From North Carolina (talk) 02:11, 5 July 2021 (UTC)


### Comments
The non-free use rationales are all in great shape.
Add WP:ALT text and WP:UPRIGHT to every image.
"and is ranked [...] and is ranked" - kinda repetitive
Remove MOS:CONTRACTIONS (isn't, wasn't, etc.).
In the lead, remove the second link to Billboard (magazine).
Add a serial comma after Best Male Pop Vocal Performance (both times).
"awards shows" → "award shows"
Add a comma after "first English album".
"rock–inspired" → "rock-inspired" (WP:DASH)
Add a comma after "instead".
Wiklink bona fide.
Add a hyphen between "second best".
"respective nomination" → "a respective nomination"
Add a serial comma after "Pop Airplay".
Add a comma after "however".
Add a MOS:GEOCOMMA after Los Angeles, California.
Add a MOS:DATECOMMA after March 25, 1999.
"similar the lyrics" → "similar to the lyrics"
Remove the comma after "they kiss".
"gave it a performance" → "performed" (less wordy)
Add serial commas after "55th", "2007, 2014", and Marc Anthony.
Add a comma after "another article".
Most sources are archived. 
Sort categories in alphabetical order.
That's it from me. Great work! 
@Some Dude From North Carolina: Thank you so much for your comments, I followed all of them and fixed the issues you mentioned. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 16:06, 6 July 2021 (UTC)


### Progress
Perhaps I'm being overly critical here, but "following his performance of "The Cup of Life" at the Grammys, and the success of "Livin' la Vida Loca" and Ricky Martin (1999), he opened the gates for many Latin artists such as Santana" seems very much a stretch. Carlos Santana performed at Woodstock. Santana's first US top 10 hits were released in 1969 and 1970. Santana's recordings of songs like "Black Magic Woman" and "Oye Como Va," from 1971, are the definitive versions (most people don't even realize they are cover versions). Santana were inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of fame the year before Ricky Martin's album was even released. The Santana album Supernatural, which hit #1 around the world and won 9 Grammys, was released only a month after Ricky Martin's debut album, and I don't think Ricky Martin can be credited for the success of an album that featured personnel such as Carlos Santana, Eric Clapton, Lauryn Hill, Rob Thomas, Dave Matthews, etc. At the very least shouldn't there be a source for such a grand claim?   Cervenka (talk) 05:48, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

@Cervenka: First of all, there is a source regarding that in the article: Link Also, we all know Santana already had hits, especially in the US. But the success of Supernatural and hits "Smooth" and "Maria Maria" were in another level. Besides, he hadn't achieved a top-10 single or even album for decades in the US itself and the late '90s Latin explosion, created by Ricky Martin, was like a revival. About the part that you said "I don't think...", with respect, we are not here to write what we "think" while there are reliable sources such as Billboard against it. The success of an album is not always based on who have worked on it. آرمین هویدایی (talk) 10:00, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

I've been thinking about including other elements and influences that can be heard throughout the song and are sourced other than just "Latin Pop", this question needs to be asked since the WP:EXPLICITGENRE says that sources must explicitly attribute the genre to the work or artist as a whole and none of the sources included state that Latin Pop is an explicit genre all throughout the song User:Tommyvercetti098 (talk) 22:11, 28 March 2023 (UTC)