# Talk:History of Sunderland A.F.C.

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051201053630/http://www.cafc.co.uk/personality.ink?page=7724 to http://www.cafc.co.uk/personality.ink?page=7724
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Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on History of Sunderland A.F.C.. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080708230726/http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Fleaguecup.htm to http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/Fleaguecup.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110628202228/http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/engtops.html to http://www.rsssf.com/tablese/engtops.html
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080418135839/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1985.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1985.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070226145842/http://www.lfchistory.net/viewgame.asp?game_Id=1854 to http://www.lfchistory.net/viewgame.asp?game_id=1854
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090107123707/http://www.footballgroundguide.com/sunderland/stadium_of_light.htm to http://www.footballgroundguide.com/sunderland/stadium_of_light.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081013011614/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1998.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1998.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021051653/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1999.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1999.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080612144234/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2002.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2002.htm
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Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 16 external links on History of Sunderland A.F.C.. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081209133845/http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SUNDallanJ.htm to http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SUNDallanJ.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081227225023/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1915.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1915.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081227143011/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1920.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1920.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021050412/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1940.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1940.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021050522/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1960.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1960.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071005121922/http://www.fa-cupfinals.co.uk/1976.htm to http://www.fa-cupfinals.co.uk/1976.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021051601/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1988.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1988.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021051616/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1991.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl1991.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080617154725/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa1997.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa1997.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080612144223/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2000.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2000.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080612144228/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2001.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2001.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080612144239/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2003.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fa/fa2003.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021051720/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl2004.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl2004.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021041944/http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl2005.htm to http://www.fchd.info/lghist/fl/fl2005.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130625103549/http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/62109/durham-miners-association-our-issues-with-di-canio-now-resolved to http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/62109/durham-miners-association-our-issues-with-di-canio-now-resolved
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080918091405/http://www.readytogo.net/safc/history.html to http://www.readytogo.net/safc/history.html
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It makes no sense that there is more information on the last two decades, which have been the least successful in Sunderland history, than all prior history together. This is due to adding information about random singing of players, which is not necessarily important in the grand scheme.
We ought to keep only the significant parts. There is no reason to mention every season, who was signed, and how Sunderland finished, as there's a List of Sunderland A.F.C. seasons article for that.

1. Recent coverage will always be slightly more detailed because there areore sources to do so. This is an example of WP:RECENTISM which can a problem sometimes, but may actually just indicate earlier portions of the history need expanding rather than other sections being reduced.
2. Be careful removing important information, and cited information. For instance big signings (particularly club records) are inherently notable. I would suggest you re-add Darren Bent and Gyans signatures for instance. Significant results, performances, and appearances are also inherently notable (as would be famous players ending the season as top scorers for instance).
3. Adding post season summaries of each season is itself a symptom of #1 so even though the habit is to discuss each season with a bullet point breakdown of the year, try and mix up the information with other significant data from that period of time. Koncorde (talk) 19:11, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
1. Very accurate.
2. Thing is, "club records" should be taken into account with the prices of the time. Football player prices go up, so it's not so hard to break that record. Bent cost more than Shackleton, but what was payed for Shackleton was bigger money for its time than what was recently paid for Bent.
3. I fully agree! I think we only need summaries for seasons where the club won the league, was relegated, or promoted. OK, sometimes a near-championship season can be mentioned. There is no reason to mention seasons where team was neither near the relegation zone nor near Euro/promotion zone.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxim.il89 (talk • contribs) 11:53, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Max. Please understand the following:

We do not use sources that use wikipedia as their source. This is circular sourcing per WP:CIRCULAR.
Fan Banter is not a reliable source. It's just a fan website. There is no longstanding reliability of its content, no named author etc. and when you look at the content you find it is often lifting entire paragraphs from wikipedia article on the same subject with only small changes.
You added the claim "an English record for its time". This claim is not found on the Fanbanter source, nor is it included on the source used on the list at List of record home attendances of English football clubs from SAFC.com. Again, per WP:CIRCULAR we do not use wikipedia as a source unto itself. We might check for other sources on associated pages (as I did above) but it does not support the outcome.
When looking for other sources you can find examples such as Talksport. In this case, the Talksport article actually gives different attendance numbers and has already aged (missing West Ham matches etc) meaning its current reliability is in question. There may be more / better etc but they need to be a reliable source. Koncorde (talk) 13:47, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Sunderland AFC are unique as they were formed by a trade union. The Teachers Association in Sunderland were part of a national trade union and at the meeting where the club was formed on 25 September 1880 it was at the end of a meeting when the national secretary spoke. 2A02:C7E:646B:EE00:3C4C:2B7E:418B:A28C (talk) 15:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)