# Talk:Len Ford

This review is transcluded from Talk:Len Ford/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 07:34, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I'll review this.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:34, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
The dablink checker identifies one link that needs to be moved.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:22, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Fixed. Cbl62 (talk) 14:25, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
WP:LEAD
"One of the most dominant defensive players of his era, Ford had an unmatched combination of size and speed that helped him disrupt opposing offenses and force fumbles. He was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1976."-The first of these sentences is totally POV. It needs to be almost entirely struck. The second second of these sentences is perfectly fine. I guess, I'd cut it down to "One of the most dominant defensive players of his era, he was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1976."--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:26, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
I toned this down, along the lines you suggested, but left in a toned-down statement about the combination of size and speed that was the key to his success. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
The second paragraph needs a 1947 Michigan Wolverines football team link somewhere in the last sentence.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:26, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 16:34, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I would ask you to state where he studied law, but it turns out that the main body does not say and the LEAD is suppose to summarize the main body. Of course, the real problem is that the information is no where to be found in the article, which needs to be corrected.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:26, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
He attended Detroit College of law, but only for 1-1/2 years, and never graduated.  I've added that to the body but don't think it's sufficiently important for the lead, so I dropped it there. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Equally confounding is trying to understand what type of military service he contributed and in which branch. The Navy should be mentioned in the LEAD and the article should have at least one military service category based on branch or war. Add as many cats as you can come up with.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:29, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
I've added the branch of service (Navy) to the lead. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
NStill no military service categories.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:14, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Have you exhausted sources on his military service?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
No. I don't think I've ever "exhausted" the sources on anything.  But I did check news sources and ancestry.com.  He can't have been in the military more than a few months since he played the full football season in 1944, played basketball in the 44-45 season, and then played football at Michigan in the fall of 45.  The war ended in '45, and he was discharged quickly; it may well be that he didn't do more than go through basic training. Cbl62 (talk) 05:38, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I am disappointed that we have not identified his rank, basic training location, specialty or anything. Continue to await appropriate categories. I am going to leave a note at WP:MILHIST.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I re-checked two pay services.  Ancestry.com has pretty strong records for WWI enlistments, and no record was found for a Leonard Ford matching our guy.  Newsaperarchive.com was checked for articles referring to Len Ford and Navy; often, when a player returned from military service, his military service would be referenced.  No such references found in this case. Cbl62 (talk) 14:40, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I have left a note at WP:MILHIST. I guess the other thing to do is make a note in the {{GA nominee}}. I'll do that too.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:16, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Categories added. I did a bit of searching myself and only came up with him serving in the Navy a short time, which the article already has. Alas, unlike the Army which is relatively easy to find archival information on, Navy's archives are usually behind very tough-to-find paywalls and you have to know where to look. Wizardman 01:50, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I see Category:American military personnel of World War II was added. In all honesty, I was expecting at least two categories and hoping for others. I am guessing that Navy personnel should have a category as well. With everybody looking and only finding confirmation that he served, I am getting comfortable that we may have reached the limits of PD content. While waiting for at least one more cat, I will also give people time to consider other sources.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:36, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
That seems like overkill for someone we can only find one sentence's worth of military information about. The one category's enough in that case. I also delved into a couple Navy muster rolls I uncovered and found no one under Leonard G Ford. The only Leonard Ford I found served on an auxiliary ship, but served through part of 1946 as well, which would cut into this Ford's Michigan career so we can rule him out. Wizardman 12:10, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
He served in the Navy and I believe that there are categories for notable people who have served in the Navy. I don't think overkill is relavant. We don't look at groups of relevant categories and say if we put an article in too many related categories that it properly belongs in, then that would be too much emphasis on those related categories.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:39, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I think 4 Pro Bowls needs to be mentioned somewhere in the LEAD.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:26, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
I'm in complete agreement.  That and five first-team All-NFL selections.  I've added both to the lead. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Link Fumble.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:43, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Why was Defensive end removed from the LEAD?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:14, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
The way it was phrased before, it made it appear as though that was the position he played throughout his entire career.  To the contrary, he also played offensive end at Michigan and with the L.A. Dons.  I can tinker with the wording. Cbl62 (talk) 05:41, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Within the lead, I've now clarified which positions he played at the different stages of his career.  Offensive and defensive end at Michigan and L.A. Dons, defensive end only at Cleveland.
Why was a WP:IC added to the LEAD?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:17, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I rewrote the lead and added some info not sourced elsewhere.  I'll add it to the body and remove the cite from the lead. Cbl62 (talk) 05:41, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Fixed. Cbl62 (talk) 05:50, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Early life and college
The article is fairly complete. However, it is lacking some essential personal information. Do we know his parent's names, backgrounds, and/or professions. I think I would like to see information on his parents or notable ancestors before this gets promoted.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:35, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Agree, and I've added information on his parents. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
"The basketball squad won their league's championship in 1944" is ungrammatical It should either be "The basketball squad won its league's championship in 1944" or "The Bears won their league's championship in 1944".--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Fixed. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
It seems that you could pipe the team to 1945 Michigan Wolverines football team.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
six feet, five inches needs to be put in a {{convert}} template.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Not sure how to do this. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Figured it out and did it. Cbl62 (talk) 17:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Why not link the 1946 Michigan Wolverines football team as well.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I would link to 1947 USC Trojans football team even though it currently redirects.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 16:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
For other teams (Pitt, MSU, ND) I would use {{cfb link}}
I've linked to the specific season article for each of the opponents, which now include Ohio State. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
What year did the basketball team win its championship.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:41, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Los Angeles Dons (AAFC)
Why is 1948 NFL Draft piped to hide the year?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Fixed. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
all-black team. professional should either be before or after all-black.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Fixed. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Cleveland Browns
I would pipe Chicago Cardinals to 1950 Chicago Cardinals season since it currently redirects to History of the Chicago Cardinals.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:43, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I'd also link 50, 51 and 55 Rams as well as the 52, 53, 54 and 57 Lions.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:43, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Added links to the season/team articles for the Browns, Rams, Lions, Packers. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I'd convert "$50" into current dollars.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:43, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Not sure how to calculate this. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
See Bobby Orr.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:15, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 19:25, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Later life and death
Figure out where he went to law school.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:47, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Cbl62 (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Images are all PD through lack of applicable copyright.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:31, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
I am putting this on HOLD I hope that most of the issues can be resolved.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:36, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Note: I wasn't aware the article had been nominated.  My biggest concern with the article as it currently stands is that it is largely based on a biography of Ford from a web site called "JockBio.com."  That web bio is cited some 37 time as the source for facts in the article.  I am not sure, but dubious, as to whether the "JockBio" web site is a reliable source.  For a person as prominent as Ford, we ought to be able to based biographical facts on more authoritative sources.  I will take a shot at improving the article as time permits over the next few days. Cbl62 (talk) 21:39, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
I'll replace it in a few parts where I can, but Jockbio is actually a reliable source, surprisingly enough. we did some research at the baseball project and it was quite well-vetted, I'll try to find the link. Wizardman 04:59, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
I've replaced a few with references to additional sources. Cbl62 (talk) 17:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Categories: Above I think he needs a Navy category. He also needs cats from the proper subcats of Category:American players of American football by state and Category:People by state in the United States.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Added. Wizardman 14:14, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
I have removed one category that was the parent of the other. I think I can now pass the article.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:43, 17 August 2014 (UTC)