# Talk:Homecoming (Kanye West song)

What does the Green Day song have anything to do with this?
--Piazzajordan2 (Talk.) 14:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
"My Way Home", from "Late Registration" is a sample of "Home is Where the Hatred Is" by Gil Scot-Heron.  "Homecoming" is not.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.219.129.1 (talk) 21:38, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Homecoming (Kanye West song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Kyle Peake (talk · contribs) 21:07, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk · contribs) This one might take me awhile but based off first glance this looks like a really impressive article. 03:03, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Just a note that @Asilvering: may be dropping by to help out with reviewing the prose. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:38, 29 August 2024 (UTC)


### asilvering comments
Signatures at the end for your convenience in replying. Feel free to push back against anything you disagree with - very few, if any, of the things I'll mention will individually be worth a GA fail on their own. Any changes too minor to bother you with, I'll just do directly in the article - but feel free to revert or question any of those as well. 

Lead is too long, imo - three paragraphs would be better. It's not fail-a-GA-over-it too long, so if you've already spent a lot of time tinkering with it and this comment fills you with despair, fine. I don't think all the individual charting positions are necessary, so that's one spot where you could cut quite a bit. -- asilvering (talk) 21:34, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
I'd say the lead can be four paras due to the excessive information, but I cut down a few parts like the commercial info. --K. Peake 07:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Prose: ok, I went to do my usual basic prose edits and I'm seeing the same thing come up pretty often, where sentences are in here backwards - that is, the concept that continues in the next sentence isn't placed in the final position of the previous sentence. This makes things jump around a lot. Here's an example:
The song features a guest appearance from Chris Martin and he co-wrote it with West and Warryn Campbell, who served as the producers. West and the singer ... I would rewrite this as: It was written by West and Warryn Campbell, who served as the producers, along with Chris Martin, who makes a guest appearance. West and Martin ...
There's also some split sentences, like this one:
West and the singer worked on the song when they met at Abbey Road Studios in February 2006, engaging in a jam session where Martin came up with the concept. Lots of ways to solve this, but one might be: Martin came up with the concept during a jam session with West at Abbey Road Studios in February 2006. Any sentences where you've got two major verbs (eg "worked on", "engaging") or where you've got an "and" in the middle are worth having a second look at.
I'll turn it over to you to have a pass at the prose with this kind of thing in mind. Let me know when you've had a chance to do so and I'll get back to the review. -- asilvering (talk) 21:45, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
I have been quite busy so apologies for the slow response, but I have free time tomorrow so will go through this then! K. Peake 20:59, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
Asilvering I have worked on the above issue now, although one thing I would like to clarify is even though West uses the term "Windy", the article is clarifying that this is a slang term for both the Windy City and a girl called Wendy. I did change one of the instances too, is this suitable now from your POV? --K. Peake 07:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Ah, my suggestion was that you have a look at the entire article with this kind of issue in mind and see if you could notice and resolve any other backwards or otherwise muddy sentences on your own. Could you give that a try? If you give it an earnest try but you're really getting stuck and can't find anything, that's okay. I don't want you to drive yourself crazy with frustration. But I do think the prose could really use another pass for clarity. -- asilvering (talk) 22:07, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
@Asilvering: Sorry for the late reply, I have been quite busy outside of Wiki this week – will look at this further later today thanks! --K. Peake 07:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
@Asilvering: I have worked on as many of these as I could see; all good now? --K. Peake 19:41, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
Great, I'll get back to the review soon and let you know! -- asilvering (talk) 20:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
"Homecoming" was met with mixed reviews from music critics. So the article says, but the entire paragraph after this is positive. Revise? -- asilvering (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
I've added some "who?" tags where I couldn't sort out which "he" you were talking about. -- asilvering (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
@Asilvering: I have fixed the tagged issues, although the mixed reviews part refers to the reviews at large so the reception is ordered to feature positive going into negative ones of the second para to show this. --K. Peake 07:44, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Sure, but that doesn't mean it's a sensible way to start a paragraph that involves no apparent mention of mixed reviews. That section is one of the clearer ones, though. The more I look at the top half the more hesitant I am to recommend that @IntentionallyDense pass the article. The first four sections in particular (Background-Composition) are really hard to get through, for the reasons I've described before. This link on known-new might help you revise these. I'll try to give some more concrete examples of what I mean:
"Homecoming" was produced by West and record producer Warryn Campbell, who served as co-writers with Coldplay's lead vocalist Chris Martin. Martin stands along with T-Pain as one of only two major singers to appear on Graduation. On February 13, 2006, Coldplay played a live show for BBC Radio 2 at London's Abbey Road Studios, where West was in attendance. West had wanted an appearance from Martin on "Homecoming" to crossover to working with the member of a mainstream band; they collaborated on the song after the show. The rapper felt them being in the same place showed the collaboration was meant to be and was brought by God, saying he "serve[d] as a vessel".
The transition from sentence 1 to 2 is fine: "Chris Martin --> Martin". But then in the transition from 2 to 3 we have "T-Pain/Graduation --> Coldplay", which doesn't follow the known-new contract. From 4 to 5 we have "the show --> the rapper", which isn't very clear either. Many times in this article (especially in the first half) there are places where some other noun is being used to stand in for a personal name, like "the rapper" for "West", which would be easier to follow if the known-new paradigm was being followed, but is really quite difficult when it isn't. There is a lot of repeated information in these first four sections, and cutting down on that repetition would probably help quite a bit. -- asilvering (talk) 18:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
@Asilvering Before making any final decisions I'm going to let the nominator reply but just so that everyone is on the same page here are you saying that the article currently fails criteria 1a?
Seeing as I did start this review I will give my input however keep in mind I have not done an in depth prose review. This article is at times very hard to follow and read. It is very long which isn't always a bad thing and it's clear that a lot of effort went into this, however the length does make me question if everything included is relevant and not repeated information. With a GA I like to see an article that reads well, meaning it doesn't take too much mental energy to figure out what you're saying and it's somewhat easy to read for the average person. IntentionallyDense (talk) 18:38, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Yes, I think it's a 1a problem, not a 3b problem - I do think there's a bit too much detail in some places, but I would call that my personal opinion, not something so significant that it's a barrier to GA status. Excessive detail is a problem in the beginning sections I mentioned more as a prose issue than a content issue, I think. Sure, someone could say some of this detail is extraneous, but I think the bigger problem is that the detail is repeated, making it hard to read. It's fine for the article to be long (honestly, I'd expect long on a song that was a collaboration between multiple independently famous artists). That is, while the length in itself isn't a problem, I think the "finished" GA version of this article would be shorter than it is now. -- asilvering (talk) 19:04, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Those are my thoughts as well. I will give the nominator time to respond before making any decisions. Thank you for your help with this! IntentionallyDense (talk) 20:12, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
@IntentionallyDense: and @Asilvering: Thanks a lot for the above comments, I have taken a look through the article to revise the points where it seems to go off-contract for mentions of artists in areas focused on others. The repetition has also been worked on by removing information from certain sections it appears on more than occasion or chopping the level down, keeping only what works as an introduction instead of being repetitive. As for mentions of artists using terms like the rapper or singer, I have only left these where it is appropriate without confusing which performer and I look forward to hearing your responses to my fixes! --K. Peake 08:23, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
I’m going to wait for @Asilvering to respond to this as she did the prose review but I just wanted to let you know that I’ve seen this and looked at the changes you made and they look good however I haven’t done a full prose review. IntentionallyDense (talk) 23:30, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
Hm, I think we've entered a WP:FIXLOOP. The changes are an improvement, though, so if all the other criteria are a solid pass I'd say we're in a reasonable pass range. @Kyle Peake, thanks for all your work on this. -- asilvering (talk) 15:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and pass this but not archive the convo in case anyone has anything else to say. IntentionallyDense (talk) 17:29, 20 September 2024 (UTC)