# Talk:Fume hood

Well, here in the States we call 'em "fume hoods", ya see.  genevax@yahoo.com
The UK invented them so we can call them what we like. European Standard uses Fume Cupboard. Globally fume cupboard used more.
I don't Think it really matters who invented them or who uses them more...they save lives and isn't that what really matters.....turboefx@yahoo.com
In the UK, "fume cupboard" is definitely more common than "fume hood", is this the case elsewhere.... thinking "redirect" here --PopUpPirate 23:36, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Anybody have an idea how much power their fume cupboard fan draws? Nfette (talk) 06:38, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Can somebody summarize the main differences between a fume hood and a biosafety cabinet? Thanks  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shudongs (talk • contribs) 15:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC) 

I edited the introduction but this article needs a lot of work. In particular, references to codes and standards (ANSI Z9.5 in the US for example). 
The whole discussion relative to health and safety is very primitive.
I don't care what we call them, hoods or cupboards, and also I don't think it matters.
There is no one answer for how much power a hood draws. It depends entirely upon the exhaust system design, where you are located (vis heating/cooling the make-up air) and local power costs. 
We could include some examples however.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonorom (talk • contribs) 19:42, 22 November 2009 (UTC) 

The article currently states "Fume hoods (fume cupboards) are generally available in 5 different widths; 1000 mm, 1200 mm, 1500 mm, 1800 mm and 2000 mm. The depth varies between 700 mm and 900 mm, and the height between 1900 mm and 2400 mm."
Firstly, shouldn't it use centimeters, not millimeters? And also, I think this needs a citation.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.69.120 (talk) 23:01, 20 December 2010 (UTC) 

Source added; it uses millimetres, now most common in equipment such as this. Have you perhaps looked at a fitted kitchen catalogue recently? --Old Moonraker (talk) 23:38, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

The section "Behavioral programs to reduce fume hood energy use" has some nice information about saving energy.  It has turned into a list of "me too" programs that is excessive.   One or two example programs would be all that is needed for the article. Grantmidnight (talk) 15:27, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqU5bGP0i5I  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.225.96.201 (talk) 06:42, 15 December 2015 (UTC) 

I have re-organized the material more logically, added Wikilinks, and reworded some awkward circumlocutions. More cleanup work is still needed. Reify-tech (talk) 15:31, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

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If anyone's interested in adding material about manufacturing and installation, then this looks like a decent image for the section.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:10, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Five Foot Fume Hood.jpg
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This review is transcluded from Talk:Fume hood/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Reconrabbit (talk · contribs) 20:20, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: JMF (talk · contribs) 16:35, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
I will be reviewing this article over the next week or so. Feel free to contact me here or at the talk page if you have any queries. Note that I will be creating sections as I go and may subsequently go back and change or delete them. So best not to react until I have completed the first cut. 


### Copyvio detector
Low (= good) score. Just one alert: the phrase "is a type of local exhaust ventilation device that is designed to limit exposure to hazardous or toxic fumes, vapors or dusts." is used elsewhere. So best to reword or quote formally, please. 


### Citations
The article is well cited.


### Lead
The lead is of satisfactory length, though it looks to me like it could maybe do more to summarise the content. The paragraph on energy waste is valid but takes a third of the lead but nothing like that share of the body. How about remote handling mechanisms?

ranging from the handling of perchloric acid and radionuclides to tall floor-mounted models and models equipped with scrubber systems. is not a natural range. It is either "from relatively low-risk high-school systems to advanced systems in professional laboratories that deal with highly volatile poisonous, corrosive or radioactive substances" or "from about 10 cubic feet (0.28 m3) to to tall floor-mounted models" or "simple exhaust at rooftop to full scrubber management". But are radioactive substances really handled in a fume cupboard? I don't think so.
That sentence was split to give more space to the information being conveyed. I can certainly add more to reflect the article's final state. Laboratory Fume Hoods: A User's Manual and The Sustainable Laboratory Handbook Layout of Technical Building Trades both provide information on fume cupboards designed for radioactive isotopes; I am aware of several that were used in the past at my alma mater.
Maybe it would be appropriate to include in the lead a note that there are grades classes of containment, but right now there is no body section that it would summmarise. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
out of the area = out of the enclosure?
I mean to state that it draws air out of the room the device is in; tried to better explain this.
Per WP:LEADCITE, it not required for statements in the lead to be cited but IMO it is wise to have a hidden note (<!-- note -->) to say that it is a positive choice not an omission.
I've added a comment.


### History
If you are going to say that Edison Jefferson created the first fume cupboard, it needs a date. Was it really before 1904? More generally, what has been called is WP:WEASEL: who called it that? what qualifications do they have to be taken seriously? And as it doesn't seem to have had a front cover, can it really be called a fume cupboard at all?
Fume hoods were originally manufactured from wood, but during the 1970s and 1980s epoxy powder-coated steel became the norm. During the 1990s, wood pulp derivatives treated with phenolic resin (plastic laminates and solid grade laminates) for chemical resistance and flame spread retardance started to become widely accepted. Both assertions need citations.
Both points have been addressed with a source reassessment and rewrite.
Yes, that resolves the issue satisfactorily. (As you may have guessed that I confused my -sons, hence the strikeout.)


### Description
Six sides, surely. The door is part of the enclosure.
My bad on that. I've changed it, though I don't have a specific source stating how many sides are in a fume hood - you can kind of tell by looking at it. Unless you don't count the duct on top as a side, since it's technically open.
I think we can assume cuboid though no doubt someone somewhere has a spherical pressure vessel. If you really meant five sides as in four walls and a floor, with a "special ceiling", you need to specify.
This method of airflow control is intended to: None of these statements are cited.
They are cited now.
protect the user from inhaling toxic gases (fume hoods, biosafety cabinets, glove boxes). Not just inhalation, but also from skin contact (though maybe that only applies to gloveboxes and biosafety cabinets?)
Parenthesised note: "fume hoods" is redundant; biosafety cabinet and glovebox are separate articles, distinguishable from fume cupboards.
Same query about the parenthesised notes on the next two sections.
IMO, lose all the parenthesised notes.
Done, except to specify in "protecting the environment".
For exceptionally hazardous materials,: give both types of advanced containment systems, not just one.
What do you mean by this? I did include gas cabinets, if that was missing.
biosafety cabinet and glovebox
I only mention glovebox as it can be seen as a direct upgrade in terms of separating the user from the hazard by putting physical barriers between both. Only the Class III biosafety cabinet would be necessarily described as an advanced containment system - I can clarify if need be, but in my experience and in the  lab safety literature the term almost always refers to a Class II or IIB, which is often providing similar or less protection than a standard fume cupboard.


### Pausing review temporarily
"I'll be back" --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:35, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I just saw this - I did address a couple things in the lead section. (Edit - I've done more than that now. When I first worked on this article it was a huge mess of OR, and my method of rewriting may have missed some of that.) Reconrabbit
I'm not really back yet, hopefully tomorrow. But yes, I sympathise, I had exactly the same problem getting Robert Hooke out from under years of accumulated detritus and getting it sourced properly. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:12, 31 May 2024 (UTC)


### Build materials
The phrase The steel may be substituted for a non-ferrous metal reads very oddly to me, that the (new) substituting material is steel and the substituted (old) material is non-ferrous. Is this a particularly US expression? Anyway, I suggest "replaced by" as unambiguous. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:06, 1 June 2024 (UTC)


### Control and monitoring panels
In are required by ANSI and EN, I suggest putting the EN citation at the end of the sentence too.


### Construction and installation
Up to you, because it faithfully replicates the source, but I would write One EN standard requires that the face of a fume hood be installed such that it is at least 1,000 millimetres (3.3 ft) from any space where there is frequent movement. as "at least one meter (3.3 ft)" since you summarising the source. 


### Maintenance
Again, subjective but I would write to ensure consistent functionality; as "to ensure consistently safe operation". [This is not a GA criterion! The article passes the "well written" test.]


### Content check complete
GA criteria met thus far. Next to do: source verification.


### Source verification
I cannot see anything like the list of construction materials in the citation of https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK55867/  "How To Select The Right Laboratory Hood System"
Citation 83 at "Use of sensors" is inconsistent in style with the rest of the article.
It is not obvious to me that citations 98 and 99 support the statement In some cases, large-scale upgrades may be required to maintain compliance, especially in older units as new occupational safety regulations come into effect. This is an important assertion that needs a solid foundation.
I'm afraid that I need you to recheck all the citations to verify that they do in fact support the statements made. I checked five and three have failed verification. I will have to mark the GAR as "on hold" until you can assure me that you have done so and resolved any issues arising. That done, I will award GA. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I can't find where a list of construction materials is rreferenced with that particular book (Prudent practices in the laboratory), can you point it out specifically? To address the other two points, 83 and 98 are holdovers from the previous version of the article before I started work on it - I'll review everything that I didn't add myself. 99 just serves as a point of reference for a laboratory standard that some fume hoods are held to - it may not be useful here. Reconrabbit 03:13, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
First and foremost, merely correcting the three items I found will not be enough because I did not check every citation exhaustively. The key point is to verify in every case that the citation given does actually support the statement made. In the ones you 'inherited', you had best check for copyvios and close paraphrasing as your predecessors may not have been so conscientious.
Several common materials used for the exterior construction of a modern fume hood include. It seems that I copied the wrong citation  but I don't see it in the intended ["How To Select The Right Laboratory Hood System" (PDF). University of Nebraska–Lincoln]. What drew my attention to it is that two of the suggested materials are cited in their own right but polypropylene is not. (The list continues but I stopped at that point.)
The NIH document is a very good one and almost deserves having a sentence added if only to retain it. I was looking for some statement that, if a hood fails compliance checks, it must be taken out of use until repaired or replaced. Even the NIH document seemed to equivocate about that. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:16, 3 June 2024 (UTC) revised 09:38, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
I checked every citation from the version of the article from 2023 before I started working on it in the process of making this edit. I have only kept those that supported the text here. There was some concerning material from "CAV, VAV & RAV" that was very closely paraphrased - that's been addressed.
I was looking at the wrong section for the build materials list. Once again I don't know how I missed it - the documentation on polypropylene is focused more on its use as a liner material, but in general construction it finds use in cleanrooms as an inexpensive chemical-resistant build material, so that's been clarified with the material I have.
I agree that there was some wording missing about discontinuing work in a nonfunctional cabinet. I've put the NIH document in context and added a reference from the CRC handbook. It's difficult to find wording outside of the safety guidebooks that state outright not to use a hood that doesn't function, as it's either taken for granted or assumed that the person performing maintenance will correct any deficiencies when they are identified. Reconrabbit 15:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
What I thought I read, but now realise that I had not, was that when new standards come out, do existing cabinets have to be retrofitted to comply or taken out of use. If it is true, then it would certainly be noteworthy. (In a way, if it is not true, it is also noteworthy but that would be difficult to say without a WP:OR violation. Also, it might vary by jurisdiction and by application, so maybe a can of worms best left unopened.)
Now that you have done the citations check, I will award GA. You might want to identify three candidates for WP:Did you know "hooks". --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:11, 6 June 2024 (UTC)


### Classes
You don't seem to have added a section on classes of hood? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 09:38, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Which classes are missing? I'm only aware of biosafety cabinets having distinct classes - fume hoods are divided up by their specific applications and mechanisms, which is enumerated in bypass CAV, VAV, canopy, ductless, scrubber, floor-mounted, etc. Reconrabbit 14:04, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
You mentioned classes in an earlier reply but their significance was unclear. If you don't consider them significant, I'm happy to drop it. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:11, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

I am pleased to declare that, in my opinion, the article meets the Wikipedia:Good article criteria. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:14, 6 June 2024 (UTC)