# Talk:Nausicaa (opera)

I was asked to have a look at the article by my good wikifriend @L'OrfeoGreco:, prior to a GAN. So here are my remarks. (I will be posting a few each days, it might take a while). Cinadon36 11:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC) 


### Sources
Nice to see quality sources. I have seen you have spitted the sources to subsection, that is ok. Just that publications also include articles (and websites, in a broader extend). So, maybe change the headings of the subsections?Cinadon36 11:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Nice point, turned Publications to Books, check! L'OrfeoSon io 11:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


### References
Rogers2003 doesn't point to any citation. Ref 17 and 19. Cinadon36 11:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Rogers 2003 -> Rogers 2016, done! L'OrfeoSon io 11:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
@L'OrfeoGreco I now get this message: Harv error: link from CITEREFNWRCR695_Nausicaa doesn't point to any citation Cinadon36 15:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
@Cinadon36 fixed! L'OrfeoSon io 21:23, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


### Recordings
It is a little bit weird using a smaller text size for the second sentence. It does not comply with Wikipedia:Manual of Style and might cause confusion, because notes, as references, are used with a different format, usually. Cinadon36 11:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

@Cinadon36 would you suggest adding a note section (a bit awkward for just one note) or putting the Note in parentheses? L'OrfeoSon io 12:00, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Both are fine but I slightly prefer parenthesis. Cinadon36 12:05, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Done! L'OrfeoSon io 12:10, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


### Synopsis
The first sentence shouldnt be in italics, nor should be written as a note. 
The word ‘’libretto’’ needs a definition. I have noticed the internal link, but readers should be able to get the meaning of an articles without clicking to blue links, if it is possible.
The issue that requires attention is the way you are presenting the story. Apparently, you have not watched the Opera, and I'm uncertain whether you've read the libretto (it matters). In any case, the problem arises from closely following the source, including its structure. I'm not sure what the solutions might be or if any action needs to be taken. Fortunately, there are users who specialize in addressing copyright issues like this one, and they have assisted me in the past. I'll reach out to one of them for guidance. Cinadon36 11:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC) PS-I have asked @Diannaa: to shred her light! [1]. Cinadon36 11:52, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

First sentence moved in first paragraph as folows: "The libretto is an adaptation of the myth of Nausicaa and Odysseus, based on Robert Graves' novel "Homer's Daughter", set in the 7th century BCE by approximation."
Word libretto explained on section "The libretto" as follows: "the two of them collaborated to write the opera's libretto, the text that would then be set in music by the composer."
Unfortunately I haven't watched the opera, although I'd wish to see it revived! As for the Synopsis, well, I can reassure you that the language used is mostly mine, I haven't copied any part, but it also holds true that I relied solely on the source cited for the synopsis' text. L'OrfeoSon io 12:11, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
@Diannaa: says it is fine with her, so it is fine with me as well! [2].Cinadon36 21:45, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Great to hear! I also used copyvio, no violation found. Besides, I did took the facts from the text, but I formed new wordings. In many opera articles, the synopsis is exactly that, a description of the synopsis in other words. L'OrfeoSon io 21:48, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


### Athens Festival premiere
This section is well-written. However, the photo may not be as helpful as it could be. Considering that the Odeon hasn't undergone significant changes since 1960, it might be more appropriate and useful to replace it with a different photo of the Odeon. Cinadon36 15:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Witty remark! How do you find the new photo? L'OrfeoSon io 21:29, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
You can either visit the main article (Odeon of Herodes Atticus) or, even better, visit Wikimedia Commons [3] and search with the appropriate keywords. Voila! Cinadon36 21:41, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
@Cinadon36 What is it that we are searching for exactly. I mean, isn't the new picture ok? For it shows the entire Theatre. Is it the decade that we are aiming for? I haven't got it yet! L'OrfeoSon io 21:44, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
I think we are looking for a photo of the theater and the seats, so that the reader can understand that it is a truly large and beautiful ancient theater. I want the reader, who has no idea about Greece and ancient theaters, to visually grasp where the play was performed. Cinadon36 21:49, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
@L'OrfeoGreco, I am not very happy with the photo you have added. There are some people on stage. Some readers might be misled that they were part of the Nausicaa. Minor details, I know. Cinadon36 22:08, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
What's your take on these?:
1) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Odéon_d%27Hérode_Atticus.jpg
2) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_orchestra_of_the_Odeon_of_Herodes_Atticus_on_May_30,_2021.jpg
3) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%2B_5000_Zuschauer_fasst_das_Odeon_des_Herodes_Atticus._06.jpg
L'OrfeoSon io 22:14, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
That's better, no buildings, but half the view:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Acropolis_theatre_-_panoramio.jpg
L'OrfeoSon io 22:17, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
And these?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Greektheater.JPG
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Odeon_of_Herodes_Atticus_high_angle.jpg (high angle)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Odéon_Hérode_Atticus_-_Athènes_%28GRA1%29_-_2022-03-26_-_16.jpg L'OrfeoSon io 22:22, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
I would exclude the one with the wooden floor. Maybe I would avoid the ones with that small paragka, it 's not nice and it might have been build rather recently.. I dont know. You choose! Cinadon36 22:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
@Cinadon36 the new image depicts an intact part of the Odeon with natural landscape. Do we keep it? L'OrfeoSon io 23:06, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Keep it! Fantastic! Cinadon36 23:09, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


### Music
I do not get why section "music" is not a subsection of "Conception and libretto". It seems music is part of conception. Cinadon36 16:57, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Allow me to explain myself here.
In the operatic world, the libretto means nothing more than what it is: a text. It is the music that makes it an opera. Thus, conception (of the idea, of the story) and libretto (the text representing this story in written form) go together, while the music is a different thing, it is the main element of opera. See for example:
La Traviata: Two sections, one for the composition history including the conception, the libretto etc. and one for the music
Tosca: Again, a section for the background, including conception and libretto and one for the music
L'Orfeo: Here also, a section named "creation" includes the libretto, the composition, and the instrumentation, but there is a special section for the play's music
Music here means "analysis of the forms, the style, the themes", while conception, libretto and composition mean "the initial idea, the writing and the composing", usually from a chronological aspect.
L'OrfeoSon io 21:42, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Oh! I see. Seems legit then. Thanks! Cinadon36 21:52, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
In fact I now see that the section "Music" includes a description of the music in terms of rhythms, melodies etc, AND a compositional "history". However I couldn't rename it to "Composition and music" because it is an awkward phrase, while "Compositional history and music" is erroneous since I am not including a detailed chronology of how the music was composed. So maybe I'll leave it like that, and we'll see. L'OrfeoSon io 21:57, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Second point, is that the "Audio excerpts from Nausicaa" is an external link. Properly it should be in the "external links" section. I don't mind, since it seems to be fitting with the flow, but have it in mind. Cinadon36 16:57, 30 September 2023 (UTC)


### Intro
Intro needs some significant work. 

Firstly, it contains information not mentioned at the main body of the article ("the other being The Transposed Heads"), also the specific point has a place in the main body, not at the intro.
Second, Intro should summarize the main body. Synopsis is missing.
Third: "whose main idea is that Homer's epic poem The Odyssey was in fact written by a woman", this line is just one sentence at the main body. It looks it is not that significant to be included at the intro. Cinadon36 22:44, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
1) Transposed Heads added in the main body, it is important
2) Synopsis, more info added
3) Sentence removed
L'OrfeoSon io 23:49, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
Smashing! Much better now! Cinadon36 08:25, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


### Ref 11
Last comment. Ref 11 has a note. I believe you can either insert that note into the main body (some editors, one is me, say that notes shouldn't be extensively used so reader wont have to scroll over refs to discover more information). Or you can explain at the note "author X says this and that", within brackets, if it is author's exact words.Cinadon36 08:24, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

@Cinadon36 Oh, I forgot about it. It is not a note, but rather a "place", a parameter used to specify the paragraph in which the info required is given. L'OrfeoSon io 09:16, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
I added a § symbol to make it clear I am hinting at a certain paragraph of the long article. L'OrfeoSon io 11:14, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Cool!Cinadon36 16:46, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


### Closing comment
Well done @L'OrfeoGreco:, you have done a fantastic job! I believe you should now nominate it for GAN. It usually takes 1-3 months before a reviewer responds. Good luck! Cinadon36 08:24, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

@Cinadon36 Your help has been invaluable Cinadon! Thank you for all your effort!. L'OrfeoSon io 10:01, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your kind words, but you're too kind. You did all the work, and I was happy to help. Cinadon36 16:49, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi, somehow in the GA review I missed the bit about the recording on IA; I'd say that, since there's nothing forbidding IA as a source in WP:EL and if we use the link to the item that presents 30s previews of tracks which is a commonly deployed strategy to accommodate copyright, we can assume good faith and include it in the external links. We are not using it as a citation, so something like WP:RSPYT does not apply. The worst case scenario is that later we discover we've missed something, and remove it. — Jon (talk) 00:46, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Superb! Thank you for your response. L'OrfeoSon io 08:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)