# Talk:Intercrural sex

What does the new image have to do with the topic? Is there any evidence that intercrural sex is meant to be inferred to be taking place?  --Strait 23:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

It is more than simply an inference, the penis can be seen (slightly), the two were lovers, and the positions of their bodies (Zephyrus seems to be thrusting, and his waist is lower than that of Hyacinthus) all establish that it is taking place.  Given that it is, the relevence seems self-explanatory.--Oreo Priest 06:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Since the old picture was missing, I posted a more recent picture of a common Intercrural Sex position. Should be helpful. BlueSkies27 (talk) 18:24, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
The picture was deleted. Here's the source image, just for future reference-- http://www.menshealth.com/sex-position-playbook/sites/default/files/spp/sex-position-Spoon_0.jpg And here is another alternate possibility-- http://www.mh.co.za/sites/mh.co.za/files/imagecache/slideshow_content/flatiron.jpg BlueSkies27 (talk) 23:08, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Is there any quantitative evidence that this is mainly a gay practice?  Plenty of heteros do this, especially when one or both partners is sexually inexperienced.

I don't know that there is - I'm gonna change that.  --Blackcats 10:03, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It's a fairly universal practice and I was just thinking about how this article was far too focused on the gay community. - 67.166.139.181 16:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

User 68.117.211.92 - I think it's still important to include reasons as to why people might choose this form of sex as opposed to another.  I'm going to add back in the part which you removed about that.  If people still think it doesn't belong, then we can talk about it more here...   --Blackcats 05:55, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I think you've made it all fit together well. The only problem I have is with the term "full" penetration, while I understand that for heterosexuals (obviously) femoral sex is a natural precursor to "full" penetrative vaginal sex, for men anal penetration isn't neccesarily an, I dunno, "inevitability" in the same way, the anatomy is just different. Its not the full or partial expression just two different expressions. So I'm removing the word full.
dry fuck? [1]
Dry humping or Dry fucking is different from Leg sex, but it could be used as an external link. I don't know how to work this in there with a citation, but this is a great way to avoid STDs. Nina Odell 21:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
"In 1987 the Shere Hite report on female sexuality found that some adult women reported being able to achieve orgasm through stimulation of the clitoris by the penis, including via intercrural contact.[4]" REALLY, we needed the Shere Hite report to tell us this?  Is that really the first time that "women being able to achieve orgasm through stimulation of the penis" is considered news?  Changed to "In 1987 the Shere Hite report on female sexuality found that some adult women reported being able to achieve orgasm via intercrural contact to stimulate the clitoris".

My spouse learned intercrural from an earlier bisexual partner, and taught it to me as a form of foreplay. Intercrural has all the safe sex and pregnancy avoidance advantages of the handjob, while giving some pleasure to the woman as well. The woman could possibly come to orgasm while doing intercrural, by fingering her clit.
Although I had read much about sexual practices by the time I met my spouse, I had never encountered intercrural. Nor was it talked about in the bawdy world of my youth, which very frequently joked about dildos, oral, anal, mutual masturbation, and more. I have concluded that intercrural is not well known among North American straights. I will now propose an explanation. The entry says that among Calcutta men who engager in homosexual acts, 88% of Hindus admit to intercrurial, but only 40% of Moslems, figures I do not wish to question. Keep in mind that intercrurial is not seriously taboo in any religion except medieval Christianity. Hence Hindus and Moslems are about equally likely to admit to the practice. Recall that Hindus are uncircumcised, while Moslems and most adult Americans are circumcised. Therefore, the propensity to engage in intercrurial sex is correlated with the absence of the foreskin. Intercrurial is easy and fun for an uncircumcised man, but requires ample lubrication when the man is circumcised. It should be noted that intercrural tends to put too much tension on the frenulum compared to vaginal intercourse.
To my surprise, my spouse derives some pleasure from intercrural. I am also surprised it is not more widely known among teenagers as a form of safe sex that is less embarrassing and degrading for women than fellatio. Again, Americans are the chattiest people in the world about sexual practices, and educated American men usually lack a foreskin. The proportion of American teens who are uncircumcised has risen of late. I predict that intercrural will soon become part of popular culture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.36.179.65 (talk) 18:04, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

Just how could this be penetrative sex?
(question asked by anonymous reader)

answer:
The male "penetrates" the gap between his partner's thighs. Ok, it's a stretch.
76.243.129.217 (talk) 16:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Sumata and intercrural sex are obviously two different activities -- intercrural is strictly "male places penis between partner's thighs and thrusts" which simulates intercourse. It involves legs and thrusting. Sumata is more a form of frottage by the female on the male, using different body parts. Lap dancing versus thigh humping. Sumata is not simulated intercourse. If you muddy the difference between Sumata and Intercrural Sex, then you might as well throw in titty fucking (mammary intercourse) and hand jobs into the same article. Probably throw in that thing foot fetishists have done to them too... foot jobs? Could probably thrown in tribadism too. And armpit humping.
Alternatively, one could argue that the purity of the Intercrural Sex article should not be sullied with oddball practices like Sumata and armpit humping. Intercrural Sex (male humping partner's thigh gap) is clearly of historical and demographic significance. I mean, come on... Abe Lincoln or Shaka Zulu humping their bed partner's closed thighs (male or female) is completely different from either of them getting a serious lap dance at a hot strip club (Tropical Lei in LA comes to mind).
76.243.129.217 (talk) 16:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
And while we're on the topic, how does this article rate a "rated as low-importance on the importance scale" for sexuality?? We're talkin' Abe Lincoln, Oscar Wilde, and Shaka Zulu here, as well as stunning numbers like 40-88% of males in a particular demographic doin' it this way! And somebody's gone to a lot of trouble with the references too. And how 'bout those historical links to Oxford, Princeton, Plato, and the Medieval Christian Church!
76.243.129.217 (talk) 16:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree that the articles should not be merged;  because the contexts and cultural connotations are completely different. Evren Güldoğan (talk) 14:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Where does the term 'diamerizein' come from?--Slowlikemolasses (talk) 21:34, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln? Seriously? I think more sources are needed to assert that a U.S. President dry humped another guy. 
As sex columnist Dan Savage says, "Other scholars insist that Lincoln is way too old, way too dead, and way too presidential to have been gay. Unless we're prepared to exhume Lincoln and test his thighs for DNA, we may never know the truth." 
Newjerseyliz (talk) 17:27, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Intercrural sex/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: GhostRiver (talk · contribs) 02:08, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I'll be taking a look at this! — GhostRiver 02:08, 5 September 2021 (UTC)


### Lede
No comma needed after "non-penetrative sex"
"and thrusted to create friction" → "and friction is generated via thrusting"
Link Ancient Greece up here
"writers discussed it frequently and it was present within artworks, such as vases." → "discussed frequently by writers and portrayed in artwork such as vases"
Then, change the semicolon after "early centuries AD" to a comma
Comma after "As history went on"
WL sodomy
"that one needed to repent for" → "for which one needed to repent"
"The 17th century saw it take cultural prominence—being seen as a part of male-on-male sexual habits—and was discussed within multiple pieces of literature." → "Intercrural sex gained cultural prominence in the 17th century as part of a larger culture of male-on-male sexual habits, and it was discussed within multiple pieces of literature."
Not done: Intercrural sex likely remained as prominent as did in the 17th century as it had in preceding centuries; an infamous court case was what really emblazoned its perception.
"intercrural sex is commonly practised in relationships of various orientation"
Change the em dashes around "like Sri Lanka" to commas
"among both heterosexuals" → "both among heterosexuals"
All issues, besides the one outlier, have been dealt with. DMT Biscuit (talk) 09:23, 5 September 2021 (UTC)


### Etymology
"The term intercrural sex" → "The term "intercrural sex" or "The term intercrural sex"
"to refer to sex between" → "to refer to sexual activity between"
The current WL on Ancient Greek goes to the article about the language; change the link to Ancient Greece
"defines it" → "defines intercrural sex"


### History and modern practice
#### Ancient history and the Middle Ages
Comma after "It has been associated with Eromenos"
"it fell out of fashion" → "intercrural sex fell out of fashion"
"and were heavily discussed by writers"
Do we know why it fell out of fashion? Or is there any speculation?
Per Tchou (2008), sex with women had been intellectually elevated to the level that sex with young boys, where intercrural sex was most prominent, thus the practice went to the wayside: "It was not that intercrural sex became forbidden, but by claiming that both physical and intellectual progeny was possible through the love for women, the love for boys was made to seem inadequate." Relevant material has been added.
I think that the second paragraph needs to be expanded upon; right now we're thrown into a quick two-sentence overview. The first sentence of the second paragraph also does not place the paragraph within a certain time or place
As someone who's read an unholy amount of literature on intercrural sex, I can assure you that there's little material on this time frame; as you state, it's a bit anaemic but that's reflective of sources. I think it's a good bridge between the sections. If you want I can remove it.


#### Modern history
WL satire
"and likely created a perception of intercrural sex being the main method." → "likely influencing the cultural perception to believe that intercrural sex was the main method of homosexual male sexual activity."
WL Parliament of the United Kingdom
The sentence beginning "In 15th-century Italy" doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the paragraph, which is mostly about African intercrural sex. It would make more sense in the part about medieval views.
Comma after "In both the Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany"
No comma needed after "American sociologist"


### Statistics
#### Sexual assault
"in 5 of 219 cases of male sexual assault reviewed, intercrural sex took place." → "in 219 cases of male sexual assault reviewed in England and Wales, intercrural sex took place in five."
WL Sri Lanka
Comma after "During 2014 in Sri Lanka"
"They were reported between the age of 4 and 19 years" → "These assaults reportedly occurred when the victim was between the age of 4 and 19 years"
Comma after "4 and 19 years"
I'm confused. A comma before a period?
"of 148 sexual offenders in the United States"
"6%" → "6 percent" per MOS:PERCENT
Comma after "In cases of child sexual abuse"
I don't think you need the last quote, as it gets fairly jargony and is also presented without context of who said it and when. The sentence and section can end after "no physical signs of intercrural intercourse."


#### Education
"Ripley et al. 1971," → "Ripley et al. (1971)"
No commas needed before or after "surveyed"
End one sentence after "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS)."
Then the next sentence is: "In a 1997 study, 12.5 percent of girls who were asked how not to acquire AIDS responded by suggesting intercrural sex."
WL Nigeria
"In Nigeria only 13 of 298" → "A 2009 study in Nigeria showed that only 13 of 298"
"responded with [didn't know]" → "responded with uncertainty."


#### Demographics
"to not be uncommon" → "not to be uncommon"
"Intercrural sex is popular in Sri Lanka with 4.2% of women" → "Intercrural sex is popular in Sri Lanka: in a 2006 study, 4.2 percent of women"
No commas before or after "surveyed"
"20.7%" → "20.7 percent" per MOS:PERCENT
Same deal with "%" → "percent" all the way through the section


### References
Looks good, nice job!


### General comments
Both pictures are in the public domain and are relevant to the article
No stability issues present in the revision history
Copyvio score looks good, highest match is a mirror
Putting on hold for now. Ping me if there are any questions. — GhostRiver 03:08, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

@GhostRiver: I've resolved the vast majority of your qualms. There is some questions or explanations but otherwise steady sailing. DMT Biscuit (talk) 10:08, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

DMT Biscuit I have been down for the count with a nasty head cold the last few days. Some remaining comments:

The sentence in the lede that you took issue with is still phrased awkwardly. If the court case is the important part, it should be listed in the lede.
The second and third paragraph in the "Ancient history and the Middle Ages" subhead both begin with the word "It". Instead, try:
Intercrural sex has been depicted on artworks such as vases under the title of "courting scenes", which have been heavily discussed by writers.
Various historical sodomy laws and religious restrictions, enacted mostly by Christianity, have included intercrural intercourse within their purview.
— GhostRiver 01:15, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

@GhostRiver: Reworded the sentence in the lede - and mentioned the trial. Resolved the qualm. DMT Biscuit (talk) 07:30, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
@DMT Biscuit: I had to wait until I was not on my school district internet, but all of my comments have been resolved. Passing now. — GhostRiver 10:54, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

"Thighjob" describes the same sex act and is better known than "intercrural sex". (see Google Trends: [thighjob] [intercrural sex] [intercrural]) 
It should be mentioned as a slang synonym in the opening sentence, but I can't find a way to work it in naturally without making a run-on sentence. 
1. It ought to be stated that it is a slang term, 
2. ideally some clarity of tone should be achieved, and 
3. the opening sentence is already quite full with other basic details. 
I don't think I have the writing skill to make it sound natural. The fellatio page brings some ideas to mind. Maybe I'm just immature, but I think "thighjob" on its own could sound dissonant from the academic tone of the paragraph, and crass. Fellatio contains the term "blowjob" as you might expect, but they also went so far as to include a couple others, like "sucking off". I think that breaks the ice in a way, right? But there are not that slang terms for a thighjob. It's not really a commonly discussed sex act, so I worry some readers might react to the word with stigma. 
To be clear, I believe Wiki is not firstly academic in tone, though: the 5 Pillars page states that Wiki's tone should be impartial. I'm likely biased, and overthinking, so this is why I'm here. I hope one of you bold talk page readers might try the edit in my stead.
Cronack1 (talk) 16:00, 11 April 2022 (UTC)