# Talk:Dédée Bazile

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dédée Bazile/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Averageuntitleduser (talk · contribs) 21:50, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 04:17, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct: 

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation: 

Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline: 

B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose): 

C. It contains no original research: 

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism: 

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic: 

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style): 

Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each: 

Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute: 

Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content: 

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions: 

Overall:
Pass or Fail: 

Image review

Could you add at least two pictures to the article?
Only managed to add a portrait of Dessalines. Had no luck tracking down a cemetery or finding a photo from the plays. I looked through the Digital Library of the Caribbean too, but nothing stuck out. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
File:Jean Jacques Dessalines.jpg: the source at Commons is a dead link; US PD tag is needed at Commons. Borsoka (talk) 13:03, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
Archives of the site do not show the image either, and I've found no earlier version of it, so the only possible source links would be circular (which I presume is not allowed). Anyways, the painting was recently restored by the Peabody Museum of Natural History, and the new version seems to be photographed here, but it has a very different coloring. I'm not very experienced with Commons, so do you have any guidance? It may just be simplest to find another image. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
I think the second link could be a good source. Borsoka (talk) 06:20, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Updated and added US-PD tag. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Source review

Academic sources of high standard are cited. Borsoka (talk) 04:23, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
Please copy the texts verifying the following sentences from the cited works here (on the review page)?

Dédée Bazile was born around 1736 near Cap-Français in the French colony of Saint-Domingue, now Haiti.
Added Knight & Gates Jr. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Lamour: "According to Eddy Cavé (2022), Défilée was born in Cap-Haïtien around 1736". Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Knight & Gates Jr.: "born Dédée Bazile, was also known as Défilée la folle (madwoman) and was born enslaved in Cap-Français (now Cap-Haïtien) in the French colony of Saint-Domingue (now Haiti)". Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Conversely, the Haitian writer and diplomat Louis-Joseph Janvier, who had a doctorate in medicine, wrote, "Défilée was not absolutely mad". Rather, he felt that the killing of her brothers and sons led only to a "cerebral disturbance".
Changed the passage and added Stieber. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Braziel: "Louis-Joseph Janvier, faculty laureate of medicine in Paris, believed that 'contrary to what Madiou and Ardouin have written, Défilée was not absolutely mad'; rather, according to Janvier, noting that 'madness is not an easy malady to diagnose,' 'the news of the death of her two brothers and her three sons in the same battle is the origin of her cerebral disturbance (or instability)" ... "'Lauréat de la faculté de Médecine de Paris'". Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Stieber: "Janvier was born in Port-au-Prince" ... "Janvier received a government scholarship to continue his studies in Paris when he was twenty-one years old." ... "Janvier spent the next decade and a half in Paris, completing studies in medicine and political science, and establishing himself as an important Haitian intellectual in France. His work appeared frequently in French newspapers and in collected editions with noteworthy Parisian publishing houses." Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
He disappointed many of the nouveaux libres—the newly freed 80% of the population—who felt his rule evoked the slavery they had faced before the revolution. Anciens libres—those freed before the revolution, often mulattoes—were angered by his plans to reallocate land to the nouveaux.
Knight & Gates Jr.: "The transition from slavery to independence failed to meet the expectations of the revolutionary masses, however." ... "They felt they were being thrust back into a form of slavery much like that which they had just overcome by gaining independence." Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Dayan: "Since the most problematic division in the new Haiti was that between anciens libres (the former freedmen, who were mostly gens de couleur, mulattoes and their offspring) and nouveaux libres (the newly free, who were mostly black)". Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Lamour: "The anciens libres were sometimes mixed-race sons and daughters of former settlers who sought to reclaim their fathers’ abandoned plantations. These so-called heirs planned to seize the Ancien Régime’s land and privileges and turn the nouveaux libres—'80% of the population at the time' (Pierre-Louis, 2009)—into farmers working on plantations." ... "According to Jean Fouchard (2017), Dessalines objected to the idea of seizing uncultivated land. The anciens libres became frustrated when he decided to verify the titles of properties and annex their lands for the state." ... "Dessalines wanted to distribute land to those who had just been freed from slavery, whereas the affranchis and anciens libres who were posed to inherit land from their white fathers opposed the distribution of land." Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
The sociologist Sabine Lamour, who believes Défilée buried the remains of Dessalines, considered the act an anti-colonial political gesture. Borsoka (talk) 06:24, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Lamour: "Défilée's gesture is therefore a courageous act against the old colonial order." ... "Essentially, she suggests the deconstruction of colonialism and slavery by prioritizing ways of regulating society that will permit people to flourish." ... "Historians seem to have perpetuated this practice: instead of describing her burial of Dessalines as an intentional act that carried a particular message" ... "Défilée’s proposal was trapped in a radical otherness that prevented us from recognizing its political dimension. Haitian historiography depoliticized her gesture; Défilée in that way was neither truly accepted nor totally erased." Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Comments

...near Cap-Français.. Clarify that it is in the French colony in the island of Haiti and link Saint-Domingue.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Do we know some more details of her place of birth? (A plantation/manor house...?)
Regrettably, I haven't found these details in the sources. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
...enslaved parents Link "enslaved" to Slavery in Haiti.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
In turn,... Delete.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Why are not the sons named?
Not sure their names were ever documented. I haven't found them in modern sources, at least. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Bazile either escaped or her enslaver abandoned her for another woman. I am not sure I understand the relevance of the sentence.
Removed. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
What does "Défilez, défilez!" mean?
Translated. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Multiple historical accounts... One or two examples?
I see this as a topic sentence. The rest of the paragraph, or at least the next one, gives examples. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
..., possibly lwa spirits... Attribute this PoV to a scholar.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
..., which contributed to her reputation as a madwoman Delete.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
The storyteller Joseph Jérémie... A link to "storyteller"? An adjective: "contemporary/early-19th-century/late-19th-century/20th-century/..."? Was he Haitian?
Added some details. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Historical accounts attribute her madness to various causes. I would move this sentence before the previous sentence about the storyteller.
I see this more as a description of the madness than a cause, so I've left it for now. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
...the descendant Didi Coudol... Whose?
Clarified. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I think the adjective "violatory" should be changed for a better known term.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
...offer sex to the soldiers... The French soldiers? Previously this sign of her "madness" was not mentioned.
Clarified and moved this bit earlier. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I think the chronology of the first section is unclear. When did the massacre of people by French soldiers happen: before or during the revolution?
I added that Rochambeau was deployed onto Haiti in 1802 to make this clearer. And after moving Pascal-Trouillot's description of the madness, I think the section has settled into a nice structure: Défilée's early life and role as a sutler, descriptions of her madness, and causes of her madness. Do let me know if you have other suggestions. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I think the article needs a thorough and comprehensive copy edit. I suggest you should seek assistance at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. I suspend the review until the copyedit is completed. Please ping me when I can continue it. Borsoka (talk) 02:01, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this on! I aim to complete comments by the weekend. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:57, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
@Borsoka: Sorry for taking so long here. I should not be as busy going forward. I've replied to your comments and listed the article at GoCE. Thanks again! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
@Averageuntitleduser Here from the GoCE :) I did my first pass and I left some comments for parts that I thought were unclear and I couldn't easily find answers to. If anything I have done has incorrectly changed the meaning of the text please let me know so we can find another way of putting it. Moritoriko (talk) 02:11, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
@Moritoriko: Thanks for the copyedits! They all look good and appropriate to the meaning. I have hopefully fixed your suggestions too. Pinging @Borsoka: are we ready to continue? Averageuntitleduser (talk) 16:44, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
Thank you for pinging me. Yes, I will continue the review tomorrow. Borsoka (talk) 17:21, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
@Borsoka: pinging again. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 02:36, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Okay, great. Ill mark it as complete. If you want me to take one last look after all of your GAN changes just ping me :) Moritoriko (talk) 13:09, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
Introduce Jean Fourchard with one or two words.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
As emperor, Dessalines... Introduce the statement with a short separate sentence informing us that he declared himself emperor.
Revised. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
...considered the act an anti-colonial political gesture Why?
I try to explain that throughout the paragraph. I added another tidbit to reinforce Lamour's argument that the gesture was anti-colonial. Beyond that, I'm not sure how much of a concrete explanation I can get out of her article. Her analysis is very interesting, but to me, it seemed to heavily extrapolate Défilée's intentions, beyond what the available information could support. If you want, I will try to find more. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
...and the legend that the spirit of François Mackandal, a Maroon leader, warned Dessalines not to go to Pont-Rouge Delete.
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
A link to Sylvia Innocent, or some introduction ("popular/leading/talented/... actress")?
Revised. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
Either translate all French titles, or delete the translations from the article.
Translated all. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
Shorten the lead by 15-20%. Borsoka (talk) 13:03, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
Shortened a few areas, though not as much as suggested. The ratio of lead to body seems comparable to those of recent featured articles. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 04:04, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
Around the 21st century, she was adapted by women authors in the Haitian diaspora. Rephrase. Borsoka (talk) 06:17, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Done. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 19:44, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Really interesting article. I hope you will further develop it. You can request a peer review, and after the peer review you nominate it as an FAC. Borsoka (talk) 02:08, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Much appreciated! I will definitely consider it. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 02:21, 10 March 2025 (UTC)