# Talk:Goat tower

Hey, Geschichte! How can I recognize such a problem in future? --valereee (talk) 15:46, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

a translation It's no big deal! I guess one way would be to run the non-English Wikipedia article quickly through
Otherwise, someone else may catch it, such as in this case. Blakstad is a deputy mayor and failed parliamentary candidate, so maybe the page should be deleted over at the no:wp should be deleted. Geschichte (talk) 16:00, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

I did translate it, but it didn't jump out at me as a problem. You're saying he is likely not notable, and that's why we shouldn't use an interlanguage link? --valereee (talk) 16:25, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Goat tower/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Kingsif (talk · contribs) 15:58, 17 December 2019 (UTC)


### Style
Well written, few notes - I've made some minor edits, feel free to respond to these, too!
Some explanation of "terroir" feels needed
I've added an explanation --valereee (talk) 19:13, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
Could move the Cape Winelands bit further up in the paragraph, to let the reader connect that Fairviews must be in this region.
Done; split para into two, as it seemed to be getting long, but I'm not married to that --valereee (talk) 22:48, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
Are there visitors to the Johnson farm other than those from CR and Poland? Maybe say 'including' somewhere?
Changed to 'from as far away as' to make it clear they weren't the only ones. --valereee (talk) 00:27, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Since there's a few towers based on the Fairview one, could these be moved up to after that part and given an introduction like "Other goat towers around the world have been influenced by..."?
Moved content --valereee (talk) 01:02, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
The sentence about Holm could be rewritten, it feels rushed, somehow
I've added a couple of words and commas to set off a phrase, do you think that makes it flow better? --valereee (talk) 10:58, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Some notes
Kingsif, I have no objection to using BrEng, so storey/storeys, but in AmEng, it's story/stories for the levels of a building. BrEng may be the correct choice since the first modern/first English-speaking country of these is in SA? --valereee (talk) 16:24, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
Oh, yes, I'd assumed it was in BrEng because of the European connection and some language earlier on, I think - why I changed it after checking the storey page. Sorry if it wasn't supposed to be! Kingsif (talk) 16:26, 17 December 2019 (UTC)


### Coverage
There's exactly the same detail on the original Portuguese one in the lead as in the History section - can this be remedied?
The lead does not need to be too long because of the overall article's length, I feel a lot of the Torre das Cabras stuff (pretty much everything after Aveleda) can just be cut from it
I've removed quit a bit, left the explanation of what Aveleda is for context. --valereee (talk) 11:01, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
And the architect's dates don't need to be in the lead
Agree, cut --valereee (talk) 11:01, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
In History, is there no information on how the design spread? Innovations? Why there's a lot in wineries?
There's an image and four refs for Cholmondeley, is there no more information?
Reception length acceptable.
I know there's not super coverage of the goat towers around the world, but a reshuffle (some ideas above) may make it feel more complete.
Some notes


### Illustration
Variety of images of goat towers; clear one for the top, Portuguese one to illustrate history of the design, British and American ones to show breadth of others
No need for infobox
Pass


### Neutrality
This is good
Pass


### Stability
History fine
Pass


### Verifiability
Sources fine
Everything referenced in line
Bit of OVERCITE in the middle, any reason? Could the refs be moved to within the sentence if for individual facts?
I think I've cut this a bit, see what you think! --valereee (talk) 20:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Pass


### Copyright
Check looks clear
Images all commons, seem to be properly tagged
Pass


### Overall
 On hold A nice short article - just a few things to think about. Kingsif (talk) 15:58, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for starting review, Kingsif! I'll take a look at your notes! --valereee (talk) 16:04, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
Hey, Kingsif -- the holidays are cranking up here, family coming in for the next ten days, I hate to ask but will it be okay if we are sort of on hold for a bit? On the 29th I will be out of town for a week but should have free time and (I've been promised) good wifi! --valereee (talk) 00:22, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
@Valereee: That's fine, thanks for asking! Kingsif (talk) 01:54, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
Kingsif, sorry for my slow work, I've had some time-consuming projects onwiki, but I haven't forgotten this. I am continuing to work on history, info on Cholmondeley, Ekeby, and Finca el Rocio, and the question about so many in wineries! --valereee (talk) 11:08, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
@Valereee: That's great! I'll be ready when you are :) Kingsif (talk) 17:26, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
Hey, Kingsif, I've not been able to find any information on Cholmondeley, despite asking for help at ref desk. Ekeby and Finca el Rocio, also not finding anything, and why so many in wineries would constitute OR, I'm afraid, as the apparent reason is the article that appeared in Decanter magazine but no one has stated that explicitly; it's just my surmise. I think I may have gotten as much as I'm going to get at this point. --valereee (talk) 20:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
@Valereee: that’s fine, I’ll give it a full read tonight and respond more then :) Kingsif (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
@Valereee: I think the only thing I have to comment on now is the style of the last couple of goat tower examples (Chomondeley and below) - they are short, simple sentences that have a definitive end, rather than flowing into the next sentence. Perhaps some connectives, maybe even combining some into paragraphs? Otherwise, good. Kingsif (talk) 01:01, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
Kingsif, I've made a stab at fixing this by combining the short paras into one; see what you think. I also found what is (apparently?) a news story in a YouTube video and added some info from it into the section on the Finca el Rocio tower with translation help from MX (as I hadn't realized you too spoke Spanish!) I'm still hoping to find information about the Cholmondeley tower, but for some reason that one just hasn't received much coverage. I added a bit about the fact several towers have been built by wineries into the lead with no speculation why, since I couldn't find that anywhere, and also that many of them have become tourist attractions. I'm more than happy to keep working on finding more information, no particular urgency on my part to finish the review before I do whatever I can to improve the article! --valereee (talk) 21:00, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
Valereee It's looking good, I'd be happy to pass it now, but if you want to wait on more information for updates, that's good, too - though I think you'd keep improving after GA anyway :) Kingsif (talk) 21:46, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
Kingsif, I do tend to be a little AnRet when curating articles I've done significant work on. I have to force myself to take things off my watchlist even when I'm, like, actively disinterested in the topic. :D  I would sincerely like to try to find something about Cholmondeley, I was thinking about asking for help from editors in Cheshire, UK. I probably shouldn't have nom'd it for GA yet, but most of the time it takes many months for a review to get picked up so I thought I was safe lol!  --valereee (talk) 22:17, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
@Valereee: Yes, I did see this in a section alone on GAN and thought I'd free it, but take your time. Kingsif (talk) 04:04, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Kingsif, I think I'm at a dead end. No one seems to know anything about the Cholmondeley tower except that it exists. Thank you so much for your patience! --valereee (talk) 15:03, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
No worries, that's great. Happy to pass now, then :)  Kingsif (talk) 19:26, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Hey, Martinevans123, not sure what the image changes accomplished? Edit summaries weren't clear on that. --valereee (talk) 23:04, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

I was trying to place the images next to the relevant text. I wasn't sure of the justification for the first image being on the left. In my edit summary "can teeny-weeny size be adjusted" I was suggesting they were too small. Can they be enlarged? I could not manage it. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:46, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Seems to be Aveleda (Lousada) at pt.wiki. Tripadvisor calls it "Quinta da Aveleda", which translates as Aveleda Estate. Note it's not just a winery: "Aside from its important architectural heritage, marked by the perfect harmony between functional and natural elements, the Quinta da Aveleda estate is also famous for its parks and gardens, where rare species of trees flourish, some of which have been around for over a hundred years." Martinevans123 (talk) 14:36, 4 May 2020 (UTC) p.s. I do not work for Tripadvisor, or for the Guedes family.

Nice, thanks! —valereee (talk) 14:51, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

The article doesn't say who builds them or why. Are goats fond of towers? If so, why? Are they built by farmers for their own goats or by landowners for goats that live in the wild? Jim Michael (talk) 04:01, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Hey, Jim Michael! Hm...I don't think any of the sources said exactly why they built them. I assume because once they saw one they were so delighted by the idea that they had to have one of their own. Or because they realized it would attract tourists? But it wasn't in the sources. Only one of the sources detailed who did the actual construction work to build the one tower, the one in Illinois, it was a local builder. The others didn't mention that detail. Yes, goats like to climb and like heights, just like cats; I could maybe find some non-related source for that, but does that feel a little OR? Not sure, hm, we could think about adding a small subsection about that, I guess? The article does contain a quote from one guy about goats not belonging to the plains so they built a mountain for them. —valereee (talk) 11:01, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
There needs to be some info in the article about why they're built & by who. The article is otherwise well-written & referenced, but these are major omissions in a GA. Yes, some animals - including goats & cats - prefer to be up high, but I've never heard of cat towers! It says in the article that some goat towers have become tourist attractions, but doesn't give it as a motive for building them. The fact that a great deal of time, money & effort has been made to create towers that aren't for people needs to be explained. Jim Michael (talk) 14:31, 5 May 2020 (UTC)