# Talk:Kačić family

In the third paragraph of History, the sentence beginning "From the half of 14th and in 15th" is incomplete. I would like to do a GOCE review, but first I need a little more information to understand what the sentence is about. Folklore1 (talk) 13:25, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

It is about the family being documented from the half of 14 and in 15th century, with estates in listed settlements, "and wider area around those villages" being "Donje polje" and "Gornje polje" and micro toponyms "Plase" and "Krušćica".--Crovata (talk) 17:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
Also in the third paragraph, see 'where is mentioned "dominum Caçigh".' Does this mean that something is mentioned in "dominum Cacigh" or that "dominum Cacigh" is mentioned? Folklore1 (talk) 13:31, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

That "dominum Cacigh" is mentioned there.--Crovata (talk) 17:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

In the sentence beginning "Knez Nikola was enough", it is unclear who executed the archbishop.  The sentence is awfully long and complicated. Folklore1 (talk) 14:04, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Knez Nikola's power and independence at the time was so strong that along the previous Šibenik iupanus (župan), then of islands Brač and Hvar (the note of being also the župan of Šibenik is notable as was a prominent city, indicating family political influence), with joint forces they managed (and dared) to execute the archbishop.--Crovata (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
The sentence beginning with "The Split army" is unclear. What did the army do?  What did the two brothers do? Folklore1 (talk) 15:05, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

When In Omiš during the same year, knez Nikola and his relatives made peace between Zachlumia and Split, while Malduš nephew Toljen ravaged Split inland (first half of 1239), was agreed compensation for his Toljen ravage, but it was unpaid and thus lead to conflict. In the first half of 1240, during the time of Split potestas Gargano,(!) and Malduč sons Pribislav and Osor on Hvar and Brač (ie. not Split potestas), after an unsucessful attack on Omiš fort, the Split army managed to establish temporary control over Brač. The conflict over Brač and Šolta continued until the peace agreement by which the brothers of Osor (who along others was captured by the Split army) left the ships to Split and renounced looting. There's a document from May 1240 by which the citizens of Brač swear allegiance to Split.--Crovata (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
See also, "In March of 1245, knez Nikola of Hodimir, with hundred Omiš citizens". Should that be "a hundred Omiš citizens" or "hundreds of Omiš citizens"? Folklore1 (talk) 15:19, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

It should be "a hundred Omiš citizens".--Crovata (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
Was Juraj married to the daughter of Stefan? Or was Stefan married to the daughter of Juraj? Folklore1 (talk) 15:22, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Juraj was married to the daughter of King Stefan.--Crovata (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
What did Béla IV and Stjepan do about the dispute between Osor and the city of Trogir? Folklore1 (talk) 15:27, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

In the source is just mentioned that existed a dispute between Omiš knez Osor with the municipality of Trogir about the property in Bijaći, resolved by the King Bela IV. and Ban Stjepan.--Crovata (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
See the sentence beginning "In the 1261–62 document". This is an awfully confusing sentence. I can't figure it out. Also, what "document" does it refer to? Folklore1 (talk) 15:33, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

There's certain document where was mentioned knez Radoš (whose name the source cited as the content probably wasn't important), which supplements the document from 1262 where are mentioned knezes Radoš and Juraj (supplementing in the sense of record of family knezes of Omiš), in which we find that Dubrovnik paid blood feud to the relatives of murdered Omišani (citizens of Omiš), and that the citizens of Omiš promised not to cause any harm to the Dubrovnik residents (due to the accident).
"In 1271, the pirates looted the ship by Archbishop of Trani, and in 1273, two pirates Stanoj and Saracen looted bishop Kefalinije Henrik.[clarification needed]", this is simple (?) two separate loots of eminent Church figures.
Does "ship by Archbishop of Trani" mean a "ship owned by the Archbishop of Trani"? Folklore1 (talk) 17:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Did Stanoj and Saracen loot a ship owned by Kefalinije Henrik? Folklore1 (talk) 17:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Actually good that you asked those questions, although they both are positive. In 1267-1268 the citizens of Split were warned for helping Omiš pirates, and they (probably joined or influenced by Omiš pirates) in 1271 looted the ship on which Archbishop of Trani traveled to Dubrovnik, while in 1273 in a similar case the ship of Kefalinije Henrik was looted by Omiš pirates of whom Stanoj and Saracen were commanders. --Crovata (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
"In June and September of 1274, Charles I of Naples signed an alliance with Split and Šibenik against Omiš pirates, and they[who?]" They - Omiš pirates/citizens ruled/lead by knezes from Kačić family.--Crovata (talk) 17:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
See "In 1275 started the conflict". Who or what started the conflict?  Who were the combatants in this conflict? Folklore1 (talk) 17:57, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

The answer lies in previous sentences - the piracy (ie. self-will, independence and disobedience of main political authorities) which was less and less tolerated. Charles I of Naples, the King of Sicily Kingdom, by 1272 conquered and proclaimed himself also as the King of Albania, managing to control both sides of Southern Adriatic coast and routes. So that in 1270s on the Eastern Adriatic, between Albania and Dalmatian cities under the sovereignty of Venice, were Omiš pirates led by Kačić family whose activity and political existence wasn't anymore approved by main political authorities.--Crovata (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
See "the Venetians wrote to Dubrovnik residents to pay compensation as did not armed ship against them." Who was paying, or expected to pay compensation?  Why? Folklore1 (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

The Dubrovnik authorities because they did no send the ship against Omiš pirates (probably because of some previous mutual agreements with Omiš pirates, and being neighboring Slavs).--Crovata (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

See "The said Simon some related with Šimun Kačić". What does this mean? Folklore1 (talk) 19:20, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Scholars consideration of relation between Hungarian and Omiš Kačićs, identification primarily being Šimun Kačić mentioned in 1178 document (with father Nikola and brother Jakov), and 1190 document (with brothers Borislav, Bogdan etc.) with Simon Kacsics.--Crovata (talk) 19:54, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Kacsics was merged here. Why? The article says: Several scholars considered that Hungarian Kacsics may have been descendants of Omiš Kačićs (Majnaric 2005, 2009). May.--Zoupan 00:17, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

In Croatian Encyclopedia the Hungarian branch is mentioned in the respective article without doubt, and in the source from 2009 such a connection is more profoundly explained. There existed original Nadin branch (from Zadar-Biograd hinterland), Omiš branch and Hungarian branch simultaneously, however, Nadin branch was not politically relevant as the Omiš branch. The absence of history of the Hungarian branch, the sudden appearance of Simon and Michael Kacsics (only known genus of such not-so-wide name was the noble family from Croatia), their most probable relation with political events around Andrew II of Hungary (Andrew forced his elder brother, King Emeric of Hungary, to cede Croatia and Dalmatia as an appanage to him in 1197), high office for which at that time implied noble origin, among other indicates relation with the Omiš branch of Kačić family. The previous article was small in text (smaller than the current section, without any image), it did not take into account modern historiography, and thought such an article is better understood and gives more value as a section in the related article.--Crovata (talk) 18:27, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

@Rkersic12: is there a reliable source which confirms that the surname Kersic is related to Kačić family as well as royal title of prince being held by the same family members? For any such claim, especially article rated GA-class, you need to provide a WP:RS. Please provide a link here to a RS to be checked. If there aren't any, then edits including the same information without any RS will be reverted.--Miki Filigranski (talk) 15:17, 31 May 2022 (UTC)