# Talk:Nudity

The statement regarding Judeo-Christian sexual shame is part of a summary of the opening paragraph of the History of nudity section. The prior lead content was unclear, the source being limited to stating that sexual shame regarding nudity was unique to Judeo-Christian societies compared to other Western civilizations, not the entire world. From Mesopotamia to Imperial Rome, nudity could be socially embarrassing but not sinful. There is a citation for this statement in the article body, which was not duplicated in the lead per MOS:LEADCITE. If there is a consensus that this is controversial, and needs an inline citation in the lead, it can be added. WriterArtistDC (talk) 14:44, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure this is an accurate statement. As I stated in my original objection there are many cultures where nudity was associated with shame even Roman culture using it for sexual shaming and as a status symbol for slavery. If we merely reword it for Western cultures then basically the whole Western world associates nudity with shame while just happening to be mainly Judeo-Christian. Except for some European cultures but those also have a significant Judeo-Christian following. It seems to me redundant to make this statement why I would rather support its removal especially as there's already a section on Abrahamic religions I don't think linking it to Western cultures is needed in the lead. Biofase flame| stalk  15:14, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
The source "Clothing and Nudity in the Hebrew Bible" (Berner etal, 2019) states that Western civilizations before the Abrahamic religions thought of nudity as socially embarrassing but not sexually shameful. Granted, many do not make the distinction between embarrassment and shame, but it needs to be made to understand the topic. Embarrassment is a short-term emotion that comes from violating a social norm, while shame is a long-term assessment; the difference between doing a bad thing and being a bad person. This is a very important point to make in the lead since it continues today as the basis for globalization of Western culture.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 16:49, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
I'm not disagreeing with that. It's just that Western culture has a predominantly shameful attitude towards nudity (which is decreasing and might not be regarded as shameful any more) while Western culture is predominantly Christian so it's an obvious conclusion I don't think is needed in the lead. Biofase flame| stalk  17:00, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
There are no obvious conclusions in a WP article, only what is stated explicitly. I am sure that because of the domination of Christianity, most readers of this article think nudity is and has always been shameful/sinful. Far from disappearing, this assumption is the foundation of the porn industry.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 19:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
I hear you but to me it's like saying if rain is wet and it's raining then it's wet. Shame in ancient times was based on circumstance of the nudity and not the nudity itself. Forced nudity for adultery was shameful while public bathing wasn't. Indeed today nudity IS more an embarrassment than a shame. If the point is that nudity hasn't always been shameful then referring to the West doesn't really bring that across. It's requires too much of an explanation for the lead which is supposed to be a summary but has already grown rather large. Just my 2c Biofase flame| stalk  02:01, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
I think "end of neolithic and beginning of civilisation" should read "end of mesolithic and beginning of civilisation". Neolithic cultures are considered civilised and did wear clothes149.62.207.189 (talk) 08:26, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

I have made substantial changed which I hope address the concerns recently expressed. Most of all I emphasize the importance of the guideline MOS:CITELEAD, which prevents having to duplicate many of the citations contained in the body of an article. Many of the changed reflect recent changes in the body of the article. WriterArtistDC (talk) 05:07, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I think the following sentence needs to be rephrased, it's ambiguous and I'm not sure of the intended meaning: "Women may not cover their breasts due to the association with nursing babies more than with sexuality". Maybe change to something like "Women often choose to uncover their breasts for breastfeeding purposes rather than for sexual purposes"149.62.207.189 (talk) 08:46, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
Clarification has been made.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:56, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Change "splitternackt schwitzen, its eine deutsche" to "splitternackt schwitzen, ist eine deutsche" to correct spelling of "ist". Tpschmitz (talk) 04:44, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
 Done Thanks for that. Jtrevor99 (talk) 04:56, 2 July 2025 (UTC)

The redirect Adamskostuum has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 July 11 § Adamskostuum until a consensus is reached.  Xeroctic (talk) 10:32, 11 July 2025 (UTC)

In the final sentence of the third paragraph of Sex and Gender Differences > Male Nudity (which begins "During women's weekly swim..."), change the word "insure" to "ensure" so the phrase correctly reads "to ensure hygiene." Brawlboy3794 (talk) 21:54, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

Done. —VeryRarelyStable 00:09, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

The redirect Kaalgat has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 October 4 § Kaalgat until a consensus is reached.  Xeroctic (talk) 08:13, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

In 'Notes' c, in the German text "Verpöhnt ist […] der Versuch, sich in Badekleidung […] unter die Nackten zu mischen", verpöhnt should be spelled verpönt. The translation of the same excerpt (Pampered is the attempt […] to mix in bathing clothes among the naked ones) -- I suggest "Trying to mix with naked bathers while dressed is frowned on." Acrowland (talk) 19:20, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for that; II have updated to match.  I changed "mix" to "mingle" as my (admittedly very limited) understanding of German makes that a slightly better fit.  Feel free to change further. Jtrevor99 (talk) 04:27, 6 November 2025 (UTC)

For the last sentence on the third paragraph, please remove the part “that provided alternatives to sexualization.” The sentence was not about sexualization and there are no sources to back this part up. ~2025-33290-12 (talk) 00:17, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: Here's the latter part of the relevant paragraph:
Although improper dress might be socially embarrassing, the association of nudity with sin regarding sexuality began with Judeo-Christian societies, spreading through Europe in the post-classical period. Traditional clothing in temperate regions worldwide also reflect concerns for maintaining social status and order, as well as by necessity due to the colder climate. However, societies such as Japan and Finland maintain traditions of communal nudity based upon the use of baths and saunas that provided alternatives to sexualization. (emphasis added)
This paragraph is partly about sexuality, so this makes sense to me in this context. You are free to continue to discuss this, but please do not re-open the template until consensus has formed from discussion. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 01:28, 14 November 2025 (UTC)