# Talk:Chicago Spire

For your information, there recently was a bit of a disagreement on what is considered fair use.  An administrator speedily deleted the infobox image for this article following a previous discussion to keep it.  After a discussion on the administrator's talk page who deleted the article, a discussion at ANI, and a deletion review, the file was restored.  It seems to be the consensus of editors and admins that copyrighted images of unbuilt buildings are fair use, especially if permission was obtained from the copyright holder.  It should be noted, however, that permission alone will get an image deleted.  It must be labeled with an appropriate copyright tag and have a sufficient fair use rationale.  Also, once measurable progress has been made on the building a free replacement can be made and this image should be deleted immediately.  In other words, if/when this structure starts rising and we can take a photo of it, we need to replace and delete this image.  DR04 (talk) 03:44, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

I'll be performing a decent amount of edits to this article over the next 24 hours.  One of my primary concerns was that the current financial problems did not a get a new section.  Instead an editor simply moved the initial financial problem section down and added to it.  That works fine for now, but the prose is not in chronological order as you would expect from such a section.  I'll be adding additional information on the current financial problems as well as the construction delays and restoring chronological flow for this section.  I'll also include the new developments of Kelleher trying to obtain union financing.  I'll try to expand the construction sections a bit as well.  Feel free to include other updates during this and any other time as well! DR04 (talk) 05:14, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Just a note, one source [1] is currently saying they got the $170m - but considering the coverage by local media on this project and their lack of articles confirming this, I think the Artinfo reporter might have jumped the gun.  Let's wait until we get another confirmation before updating the article. DR04 (talk) 17:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2010/11/17/facing-eviction-suit-spire-developer-leaves-loop-offices.php
Moved out of 111 South Wacker Drive, unpaid rent. Daniel Christensen (talk) 06:36, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
A lot of good stuff here that should be worked in: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101112-714149.html
Searching it through google shows the whole story and not the log in thing:  http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20101112-714149.html
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS294&=&q=chicago%20spire&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=wn

The infobox says this building was never built; is that true? Apple & TWC Fan (talk) 01:23, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
This is true.
MelbourneStar1 (talk) 00:40, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
The circular foundation was prepared in 2008, but no above-ground work was done and there has been no work on the site since late that year. Sepreece (talk) 01:24, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

a few references:

[2]
[3]
[4]
[5]
[http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=434232]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
Wow the Chicago Spire really does have a 'fantastic' future ahead of it.
MelbourneStar1 (talk) 00:39, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to Chicago. The entire state is either bankrupt or something else ending in "rupt". Frietjes (talk) 00:45, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
lol I wouldnt say the whole city -- just this cancelled / dead project :)
MelbourneStar1 (talk) 00:46, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
What's the basis for saying specifically that it was canceled in early 2010? The foreclosure didn't start until late-2010. What event are you taking as signaling canceling it was canceled? Sepreece (talk) 01:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
take a read of the articles look at their dates :) MelbourneStar1 (talk) 02:27, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Project cancelled - does this mean that there is no hope of ever restarting it? If so, what next? Can the existing work be salvaged and used in another project, or will it need to be demolished? What are the plans for that piece of property?74.100.60.53 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 20:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC). 

The current status is still the same, Cancelled, with the projects future looking unpromising for the future. Here is a recent list of articles on Google that may just answer your question...[12] --  MelbourneStar☆ (talk to me) 20:59, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
"Canceled" is really the wrong word, because it suggests that someone made a decision to kill it. The most you  can say accurately is that work has stopped, control of the property has been taken away from the developer, and for some time, nobody from the developer's company has said they're still trying. It's fair to say it's functionally dead and the odds of it being resurrected in the time before they lose the ability to buy back the property taxes is negligible. In the current Chicago real estate market, nobody is likely to move to build on the site anytime soon - a nearby project that had been on hold for two+ years was recently reannounced, but with the project scale cut in half and many other projects are still dead in the water. However, the foreclosure action and tax sale make it much harder to review the Spire than most of those other projects. The most complete review of the project I know of is the recent Chicago TimeOut feature - [13]. Sepreece (talk) 01:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

February 2 is not really considered "recent". Barring that out, whether the building will be built next year, or in 2013 or even 2056... It is not about finding sources that say it's been cancelled, because judging from these past months, it has w/ references provided...It is now at the time where you will have to dig very deep to find sources stating that the tower has been given the green light, which unfortunately has not. The word "Cancelled" does not have to imply that someone has made a decision to kill it. The word "Dead" might replace it, as they do in a way have simmilar meanings. --  MelbourneStar☆ (talk to me) 07:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
We'll have to just disagree about the semantics of "cancel", which by my dictionary pretty clearly requires an action. "Dead" just describes the result, without saying anything about how it got that way, which is fine in this case. February 2 is pretty recent in encyclopedic terms; a quick Google search didn't come up with anything more recent about the Spire. The TimeOut Chicago piece is by a respected journalism professor and seems well-researched. In any case, I think we're all in agreement that the project is dead.Sepreece (talk) 02:28, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

It is now April 2012, more than a year after the last update. Is there any news? Will the land be sold and used for another building?108.23.147.17 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 20:17, 27 April 2012 (UTC).
There's no news that has made it to the public. The Chicago real estate situation is improving slowly. It's a difficult site - very expensive and small - so it's likely to be some time before a developer comes up with a plan and the financing to buy the site. The legal wrangling will also be in the way for some time. Sepreece (talk) 15:41, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
It is now more than 2.5 years since the last update. What will happen to the property? Will they let it sit indefinitely, or is it to be sold and used for soemthing else? The property is too valuable to just sit and rot.96.247.7.59 (talk)   — Preceding undated comment added 18:54, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Since the project is n longer alive, the description of the view etc. should be canged from indicative to subjunctive.!!!!

I have reverted Wikidemon's edit, for now.  I think it is a little early to be calling this project revived enough to turn the wording back present tense.  These three reliable sources, all say it is still cancelled: CTBUH, Emporis, Skyscraperpage.  The project 'knight in shining armour' riding to the rescue, might yet disappear along with their $135m if they don't get their act together by the end of march.  Astronaut (talk) 18:12, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

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I don't have the details on me but I know that this project hit a major setback, and may even be cancelled as a result of a failed payment. --Dekema2 (talk) 00:49, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
They were supposed to make a payment by the end of yesterday (Friday 10/31). As of yesterday morning their attorney said it was unlikely they would make it. However, I haven't seen anything today about the outcome, so it may be Monday before the Business reporters write it up. Unless, of course, there's some kind of negotiation still ongoing... Sepreece (talk) 03:01, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

And... it's gone. —MelbourneStar☆talk 03:10, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-11/classified/chi-chicago-spire-shelbourne-20140311_1_chicago-spire-irish-developer-garrett-kelleher-related-midwest
This should be inserted into the main article - by someone a little more experienced than me. 96.247.7.59 (talk)   — Preceding undated comment added 01:12, 20 January 2015 (UTC) 

I agree it should be added. Also note, that attempt to rejuvenate the project also fell through. It's dead for good it would seem. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20141104/CRED0701/141109955/its-official-the-chicago-spire-is-dead
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