# Talk:Charley Wensloff

This review is transcluded from Talk:Butch Wensloff/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk) 20:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Generally fine, no big issues, just a couple of minor points.

Jargon: This is the only real issue for me. Almost all of what I know about baseball has come from reviewing baseball articles, so I can follow most of the article, but there are a few items which could either be linked or expanded. The farm teams and various classes of team need linking. I think some stuff would benefit from being expanded to explain it in full. These parts struck me as needing explaining a little more:
"non-affiliated El Paso Texans": Does this mean not attached to a bigger team?
"included a four-hit victory against the Bisbee Bees in June": Not too sure about this one. What does it mean? Is it good or bad?
"he was third in the league in wins and eighth in innings pitched": I would expand this slightly to make it more readable. E.g. Third most successful pitcher in the league in terms of wins and pitched in the eighth highest number of innings? And similar for the other seasons.
"Wensloff allowed eight runs and failed to get out of the first inning": I know this is bad, but I'm not quite sure what it means.
"In 1940, Wensloff was promoted..." I think it could be clarified here about the farm system, as it is not immediately clear if you read this that he was being moved up to a better team.
"threw a two-hitter"
"Wensloff shut them out"
"allowing no walks and six hits in a 6–2 victory"
"Wensloff won 21 game and lost 10 with a 2.47 ERA in 33 games, and led the league in wins and was sixth in ERA during that season.[13]" Should this be 21 games? And is there a reason why wins and losses are given in full, rather than in the XX-YY format in the rest of the article? It may be better to write it like this in the first instance and then abbreviate the rest. It may also be good if the first one could say that he won X games in which he pitched.
"the New York Yankees purchased nine contracts from their farm clubs"
The rest seems OK. My only nitpick would be that I'm not sure whether some of the things mentioned are good or bad, or how good or bad. Maybe a bit of context would help, but feel free to ignore.
"During the season, Wensloff also became one of the few pitchers to develop a knuckleball..." Sounds a bit like he invented it. Does it mean in the team, in the season, in the last few years...?
One dablink, Kansas City Blues.
Needs persondata.
Refs check out OK.
I already know the answer, but anything on his early life or personal life?
No other problems that I can see from the first read through. I won't put it on hold yet, as I'll have another look later to check I didn't miss anything. --Sarastro1 (talk) 20:13, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
I'll handle these shortly. To answer that last question, I was actually surprised that I was unable to find anything whatsoever. Interestingly enough, when he joined the army a couple sources I saw originally stated that the Yankees had no idea where he was, so he was apparently a really reclusive person, even by "cup of coffee" baseball player standards. I can add in that source if it helps show that at all. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 00:11, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I think that would be quite interesting to add. --Sarastro1 (talk) 06:03, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Done with everything up to here. To note a couple things for convenience, I probably mentioned this in earlier GA reviews (no idea if you were the reviewer) but minor league clubs pre-1960 were extremely confusing, as they were a lot more independent then they are today (the whole process is streamlined and easy now). I clarified as best I can for those, though I don't understand them entirely myself. As for the knuckleball issue, it's an uncommon pitch, though the current article on the subject doesn't say much in that regard. Only a couple hundred pitchers used it occasionally, though the source I found on it I don't know if it's reliable, so I tweaked what I could there (I took out the rareness thing to make it clearer). Wizardman Operation Big Bear 03:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Further

"Wensloff led the league in wins": My personal preference is always "had the most wins in the league" or "the leading player in terms of wins". Feel free to argue.
"During spring training, Yankees manager Joe McCarthy was impressed with what he had heard about Wensloff, though he had not seen him pitch often": A bit odd. If this happened during spring training, how did the manager not see him. This could be cleared up a bit. And "impressed with what he had heard" somehow doesn't sound right. "...had heard impressive things about" or "been impressed by reports..."
"By the end of June, he had six complete games in his first six starts, and was being considered an unlucky pitcher, both for not receiving the publicity other rookies were, such as pitcher Jesse Flores, and for having four wins and losses despite how well he had been pitching." Very long sentence, could be broken up. Six complete games presumably means that he pitched through the whole game; was this unusual? Who considered him unlucky? And is that 4 wins and 4 losses?
"in which he only allowed one unearned run on a wild throw against the St. Louis Browns" Lost me there. Was it his wild throw? Are unearned runs given against the pitcher (sorry, baseball ignorance showing here)? And why is there a however in this sentence?
"continued to shop him around": A bit too informal.
He seems to have had a really good career before the break for war, but just faded away without playing much after. Any reasons why, or do any of the sources give a comment (other than the injury)?
I think that's everything. I'll put it on hold to give you a chance to sort it. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:45, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Done. To comment on a couple things, the unearned run would be a run scored that was not the fault of the pitcher; ergo, the wild throw was by another player (no idea who). Six complete games is rare for a whole season nowadays, though back then it was the mark of a good pitcher to consistently finish a game. Lastly, why he just fizzled out I'm not sure, but my theory is that many arm injuries, such as rotator cuff problems and the like, went undiagnosed back then, so players with sore arms/shoulders/elbows either just tried to pitch through them or gave up. Looks like Wensloff chose the latter. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 14:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
All good now. Passing. --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:32, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I added some material about the deal which sent Wensloff to the Indians in 1948, and which also sent Al Rosen to the Yankees' Triple A affiliate in Kansas City for that season.  I've also added it to the Al Rosen article. I just presented bare bones because I wanted to avoid original research or point of view problems, but I find it a very interesting transaction.  Basically, in exchange for a very old relief pitcher, the Yankees were able to keep the Indians from using one of the brightest prospects in baseball for most of the season, in the which only 2.5 games separated the teams at season's end.  The trade also involved Bill Veeck and George Weiss, who were long-time antagonists in the American League.Arnold Rothstein1921 (talk) 01:32, 1 October 2016 (UTC)