# Talk:It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)

The first line of the song, "Darkness at the break of noon", refers to a nuclear explosion.

i thought it was a reference to the book "darkness at noon", a novel about communism. --Progjunky 10:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I have read that this song "is to capitalism what Darkness at Noon is to communism." I have also read the nuclear interpretation. But as I don't have a good reference for either, I'll just take the line out. --ubiquity 12:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It's unsubstantiated, and barely relevant to the song.  The comment that Gore selected this quote as a method to distance himself from the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal is absurd and unverified.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djcbuffum (talk • contribs) 04:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC) 

Excuse me for watching too much television but I'm pretty sure it's the episode in Season 6 Part 1 (IIRC) where AJ and his girlfriend are making out and accidentally set the car on fire - and not the final episode - where this song is used.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.13.128.101 (talk) 00:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC) 

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In my opinion, the "It's Alright Ma" article is in need of a total re-write. Prior to the change I just made, all the lead had to say about the song was that it was the "penultimate" (2nd to the last) track and that it may have been performed as early as 1964 , though it couldn't have been performed earlier having been written that year. Not having much else to say about Dylan and his song, the article jumps to two full paragraphs on the Byrds' cover. Then it brings things back home, declaring the song one of Dylan's most "verbose," which might have been significant if not for "Bob Dylan's 115th Dream" on the album's flip side (667 words versus 774).
Though Clinton Heylin does work his way in (only to be followed by a clever but ultimately inane quote from an unnamed, unsourced critic), the problem is that the article largely ignores what Dylan's  biographers have written about "It's Alright Ma", most of which is readily available through Google Books. I plan to remove some of the unsourced "information" that's currently here and incrementally re-structure and re-write the article, primarily based on these sources. Meanwhile, I'd welcome (be grateful for) feedback and contributions from others. Allreet (talk) 06:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Sayantan m 17:01, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
I'll be reviewing the article as soon as possible.--Sayantan m 17:01, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


### Check Against GA criteria
I'll finish the check completely in next few days. Meanwhile editors please try to resolve the problems I'm stating. It'll help save our time.--Sayantan (talk|contribs) 06:58, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Well-written:
(a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct
(b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation
Verifiable with no original research:
(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline
(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose)
(c) it contains no original research
Broad in its coverage:
(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic
(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style)
Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each
Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute
Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio
(a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content
(b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions


### Review and comments
Glad to another well researched article on a Dylan song. I have some comments and suggestions those may help to make some small but necessary changes for this article.


#### Lead
There is an article on Howard Sounes. Put the link.
I think it's OK to avoid any reference since all the information are repeated in the body. But later when adding information to the lead make sure the info is repeated in body with appropriate reference.
I see the words "famous" is used in the lead (as well as in three other places). Please make sure that is exactly the word used in the corresponding text as an adjective to the concerned lines. Otherwise please remove them according to WP:PEA. (check the same for the other places the word is used)
In the ref #5 (ie. http://www.allmusic.com/song/t1991560) there is a mention of the song's performances in the documentary "Don't Look Back" and HBO version of the video "Hard To Handle." Please include the details in the lead as well as in body.


#### Bob Dylan's Version
"This opening echoes the Book of Ecclesiastes..." Since this is not unanimously agreed conclusion, use the name of the author/critic who said it.
"These lines seemed particularly prescient when Dylan performed the song on his 1974 tour with The Band, a few months before Richard Nixon resigned as President of the United States as a result of the Watergate crisis." I'm not this kind of
"Powerful"-- Again a "peacock term" (see WP:PEA)
I don't think an analysis of the rhyming structure is required. (A reader may not have enough amount of knowledge to understand them.)
Add the date of release of Playlist: The Very Best of Bob Dylan '60s. Is the link required for this compilation album?
"In a 2005 reader's poll reported in Mojo magazine, "It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" was listed as the #8 all-time greatest Bob Dylan song, and a similar poll of artists ranked the song at #21. In 2002, Uncut magazine listed it as the #5 all-time Dylan song."This line, under my judgment, will be a part of the section "Influence."
If it's possible, try to add the number of times this song has been performed by Dylan on stage (I don't remember now but I saw on some website that this kind of info is available).
"Described by Dylan biographer Howard Sounes as a "grim masterpiece," the song features ...", "The lyrics of "It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" express Dylan's anger at hypocrisy, commercialism, consumerism, warmongers and contemporary American culture.", "Dylan has stated that "It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)" is one of his songs that means the most to him..." --All these (or very similar) sentences appeared in the lead. Surely they required to be included in the body but I suggest to use a different sentence construction as far as possible. Otherwise to some reader these repetition may turn out to be very boring and will affect the overall reading experience.
"the words pour out quicky.." Check spelling.


#### Cover versions
Remove the photo, since it serves no great purpose in this section or in this article.


#### Influence
There's an article on Clinton Heylin. Use the link.
favorite--When writing about a song made by an American singer-songwriter, please use American spelling. (favorite)
"notable"-- Avoid this word. (see MOS:OPED)
Thank you for your comments.  I believe I have addressed them except the following:
I wasn't sure what the comment was in the 2nd bullet under "Bob Dylan's version."  The remark about the lyric seeming particularly prescient comes from Trager's book, and other author's have noted the (apparent) relevance of the line when it was performed during the Watergate crisis.
I did not remove the rhyming structure.  While not required, it is relevant to discussion of the song and reliably sourced.  And while not all readers may understand it, it is a fairly standard way of describing a rhyming structure and not too difficult to figure out what it means for someone who really wants to.  I can add an explanatory sentence along the lines of "In other words, the first 5 lines rhyme with each other, the 7th through 11th lines rhyme with other and the 13th through 17th lines rhyme with each other, and the 6th, 12th and 18th lines rhyme with each other."  But that is kind of clunky, and I actually do not have a source for the explanation.
I did not add the number of times it was performed.  [HisBobness.info], which is apparently part of dvdylan.com, does list 772 performances through 2007, but I am not sure that qualifies as a reliable source and it is already out of date. Rlendog (talk)
Y Done.
OK. I think it's ready to be a GA. And as of the second bullet under "Bob Dylan's version", I guess that was some silly typing mistake. I don't even remember what I was going to say there!! Anyway, good job and I wish you happy new year 2011. Also thanks for cooperation.--Sayantan (talk|contribs) 00:54, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
Great job on this article! Moisejp (talk) 12:17, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I re-instated ref to the final essay of Christopher Hitchens, who quoted a verse from "It's Alright Ma" at the head of the essay. I found the fact that one of the outstanding polemical writers of our time should quote this verse in his final essay, written shortly before his death from cancer, to be at least as interesting and as relevant to this article as the fact that "During his campaign for President in 2000, Al Gore told talk show host Oprah Winfrey that this was his favorite quotation." Mick gold (talk) 15:22, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I added a passage (and a mention in the lead out) in the article that addresses concerns in the song which go beyond the mere socio-political aspects already discussed.  I think the song's concerns (at a core level) are existential in nature above and beyond all else.  The line which opens up the key to the whole deeper meaning is its most famous: "He not busy being born is busy dying."  It is as if Dylan sees the whole existence of society and politics as a delusion--that the one possible note of hope to be found in the song is perhaps in one's personal quest and growth, however painful and difficult.  It is as if he is challenging the human bieng to seek and try to find..."the answer is blowin' in the wind." Garagepunk66 (talk) 08:39, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

"While it shares a sense of prevailing entropy": this phrase is meaningless. Entropy is a scientific term that the writer (User:Rlendog has misused. "Disorder" is not equivalent to "entropy", but does this maintain the intended meaning?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:4011:1800:0:0:0:0:5 (talk) 21:08, 4 February 2017 (UTC) 

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I did this edit a few days ago :
“...the intricate rhyming structure is often missed: AAAAAB CCCCCB DDDDDB in the verses and AAB in the chorus.”
changed with :
“...the intricate rhyming structure is often missed: AAAAAD BBBBBD CCCCCD in the verses and EED in the chorus.”
with the explanation :
“rhyming scheme corrected and clarified ("A" rhymes from the first verse do not appear in the chorus, and it's more logical to call the non reoccuring rhymes A, B, C, the one reoccuring in both the verses and chorus being D)”.
It has been reverted with the following explanation :
“You may well be right, but this rhyming scheme isn't supported by Heylins book. You'll need to find a reliable, 3rd-party source for this.”
Now, I haven't access to the aforementioned book, I don't have a reliable 3rd-party source to backup my revision, I'm no english scholar, english isn't even my primary language, yet the fact that, on Wikipedia, being probably right is considered secondary to being able to provide a “reliable 3rd-party source” is quite puzzling to me. How reliable is a source that is shown to provide a bogus information ? And it's kinda circular logic : a source is considered reliable just because it has been published on a supposedly reliable network by a presumably reliable author... Yet even the best authors make mistakes and even the most prestigious publishers fail to correct mistakes.
Well, in this particular case, could someone with a college level education in english litterature, or at least a serious interest in the matter, tell what this notation should be, and provide a trustworthy source to back it up ? Normally that source shouldn't have to be specifically about that song, or even Bob Dylan – or should it ?--Abolibibelot (talk) 18:00, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Hi! It was me who reverted your edit. No offence was meant, but, even though you might well be correct, a reliable third party source will be needed. On Wikipedia the threshold for inclusion should be verifiability, not truth (more details on this can be found here). As I say, I'm totally prepared to believe that you're right and the rhyming scheme should be AAAAAD BBBBBD CCCCCD, but you need to find a reliable, third-party reference to support it if you want to change it. As for what constitutes a reliable source, you can find the answer to that question at WP:V. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 18:22, 1 January 2018 (UTC)


### It's Alright, Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)