# Talk:NDA (song)

Idk what your guys' interpretation is of what hyperpop sounds like but this isn't anywhere near hyperpop, it's just pure electropop. A distorted drum on a pop song doesn't make it automatically hyperpop, tag it electro industrial if you wanna be more apt lol 2601:204:CA02:D90:7D23:717D:D7FC:31DC (talk) 22:32, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
A reliable source like Vogue (in this case Teen Vogue) becomes unreliable when it says wrong info. Keep in mind this is the ONLY article that describes the song as hyperpop, out of the dozens that have already come out about the song. No other site is describing this song as having hyperpop characteristics. 2601:204:CA02:D90:C9E5:B0E9:C6C1:535A (talk) 05:28, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
As for WP:OR, do not use such facts or claims as true. You as a user is not a reliable source. Just because no other sources have come out yet and states that it is hyperpop doesn't mean it is untrue. Only one source calls it "alt-pop", should it also be removed? And Teen Vogue is a reliable source as per WP:RSP and characteristics of hyperpop varies.  Swiftiekaghorl?13 (talk) 05:57, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Me as a user has ears, thanks tho! The song isn't even hyper (relating to tempo), nor does it have pitched up vocals, nor does it have eclectic distorted production. I say again, a distorted snare drum doesn't make a song hyperpop, and Teen Vogue and this site should know better. 2601:204:CA02:D90:C9E5:B0E9:C6C1:535A (talk) 06:28, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
So what happens when a reliable source provides unreliable information? Does this site just not care in that scenario? Would I have to find a quote from another reliable source talking about why Teen Vogue doesn’t decide what is and isn’t hyperpop? You must realize that “original research” is imbedded into most if not every article, because not every statement is sourced or needs one. 2601:204:CA02:D90:3C81:4709:32A6:EDA6 (talk) 20:19, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I saw that mAny fans of Billie on TikTok hated the song. Should I include that on the “critical reception” section? Just a thought. Tengoritmo (talk) 15:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

No, you shouldn't. Critical reception is meant for just that – reception from music critics. Unless the fans are professional music critics who published a review through the publication of which they work for, you shouldn't add it in. Thanks! D🐶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 19:00, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:NDA (song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:16, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I will review this today --K. Peake 09:16, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I will adapt your suggestions tomorrow. infsai (talkie? UwU) 16:15, 20 November 2021 (UTC)


### Infobox and lead
Should pop be listed as a genre when you have multiple subgenres of it following?
Pipe dark-pop to Darkness in music
"Billie Eilish, from her" → "Billie Eilish for her"
The release info should be directly after writing/production
"Musically, it is a" → "It is a"
"track which contains" → "track, which contains" plus mention the elements first then add a comma and write "accompanied by..."
Pipe techno-pop to Synth-pop
"Lyrically, it speaks about Eilish's battle" → "Lyrically, "NDA" speaks about Eilish's battles" moving this and the following sentence to being at the start of the second para instead
"the track transitions into "Therefore I Am", which follows "NDA" in the album's track listing." → "the song transitions into the following album track, "Therefore I Am"." with the pipe
"It was received positively by the" → "The song received mostly positive reviews from"
Pipe music critics to Music journalism
"with many calling the track" → "who often called it"
"some reviews an issue has been taken" → "some reviews, issues were taken"
"or its placement within the album." → "or placement within Happier Than Ever."
"the single was a" → "the song was a"
"It was promoted by the" → ""NDA" was promoted by a"
Mention what critics analyzed and after that, add a sentence for the video's critical reception
"on gigs like" → "in 2021 for gigs like"
Wikilink concert film and add a comma after the title
"and 2021 Life Is Beautiful Music & Art Festival." → "and Life Is Beautiful Music & Art Festival."
Applied to all of the suggestions you made. With an exception of changing the build of the lead. Is it really necessary to change the way its built? Because I prefer when it starts with an information who wrote it, then its composition, and next para being about release and reception, with the last being about promotion. Maybe it is this way, since I did not read any style guides... Saying it for the sake of honesty. And regarding pop, I used to think about it too, however I saw other articles which also had pop and its subgenre both listed as genres (i.e. "Everything I Wanted"), that's why I decided to keep it. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


### Background and release
Pipe Hawaiian island to Hawaiian islands and since the img is here, shouldn't the mention of her trip be too? Either way, keep the lyric down there.
"second studio album Happier Than Ever." → "second album Happier Than Ever for release on July 30."
"Preceding "NDA"'s release," → "Preceding the release of "NDA","
Where is significant media coverage sourced?
"the music video for the" → "the music video for her" with the wikilink and mention the song's name after "previous single"
"Additionally one of the" → "Additionally, one of the"
Pipe blaccent to African-American English
Add commas on both sides of "alongside a music video" to make it clear that this was part of the announcement
"reveiled the cover of" → "revealed the cover art for"
"The day before the song's release, artist" → "Two days before the song's release, Eilish"
"of song's intro on" → "of the song on"
"the fifth single of" → "the fifth single from" but you need a source for download since only streaming is backed up
"Eleven days later," → "On July 20, 2021,"
"and alternative radios." → "and alternative radio stations."
"With the release of "NDA"'s parent album," → "Along with the release of the album,"
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


### Development and recording
"by Billie Eilish, and her brother," → "by Eilish and her brother"
"who also serves" → "who also served"
Pipe chorus to Refrain
"wanted to use it," → "wanted to use the sound,"
"In her concert film," → "In Eilish's concert film" with the wikilink
"the place" and it is open" → "the place", and is open"
Remove speech marks for different because it is one word and this is not directly attributed as an Eilish quote
"in the interview with" → "in an interview with"
Neat addition with the quote!
All done, besides the last one, since I don't understand what I really have to do. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


### Music and lyrics
"Eilish's aggressive vocals," → "Eilish's screamy vocals," on the audio sample text, per the prose and pipe chorus to Refrain here
Pipe minimal to Minimal music
Again, should pop be a genre when you have multiple sub-genres of it listed? Also, [33] does not mention the genre so why's it there?
Pipe dark-pop to Darkness in music
Pipe range to Vocal range
Pipe distorted to Distortion (music)
Pipe sample to Sampling (music)
"It later features" → "The song later features"
"an electro auto tune," → "usage of electro Auto Tune," but this part and the sparse production are unsourced
""intensive" and "aggressive" during song's" → ""intense" and "aggressive" during the song's"
"with heavy auto-tune put over her" → "through heavily auto-tuned"
The Ringer should not be italicised
"into album's next track –" → "into the album's next track"
"by reminding the stalking incidents from the previous year in lines" → "by offering a reminder of the stalking incident from 2020:"
"like to meet"." → "like to meet."" per MOS:QUOTE on full sentences
"to have a" → "of having a"
The second verse is not mentioned by the sources, even though the lyrical content is backed up
Keep the Kauai thoughts here but maybe only maintain the visit once its been moved with "after her 2020 visit"
""I Didn't Change My Number" and" → ""I Didn't Change My Number", and"
"features Eilish singing" → "features Eilish singing,"
"which for the singer has" → "which the singer thinks has"
""half-rapping,[56]" → "half-rapping,[56]" per speech marks not being necessary for this terminology
""whispery",[57] and" → ""whisper[y]",[57] and" per paraphrasing of the source
"were engineered to sound "intense";" → ""are engineered to sound intense";"
DYI → DIY
"lyrics has been" → "lyrics have been"
""barbed [and] sly"." → ""barbed", and "sly"." for correct grammar
""vulnerable and unsettling."" → ""vulnerable and unsettling"."
Pinkvilla should not be italicised
"writer suggested that" → "a writer suggested that"
"might also talk about trust;" → "seemingly also talks about trust,"
Italicise The Sydney Morning Herald
"scrutiny" and called" → "scrutiny", and called"
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


### Critical reception
"with "NDA".[34] Roberts" → "with "NDA",[34] similarly to how Roberts" to avoid too short sentences
Pipe wall-of-sound to Wall of Sound
"It was praised by editors" → "The song was praised by respective editors"
"singles," because of its" → "singles" because of the"
"one of her most favorite" → "one of her favorite"
"featurest one of the" → "features one of the"
"boastful melody" and" → "boastful melody", and"
"on The Ringer," → "at The Ringer,"
"This website's Rob Harvilla, said" → "The website's Rob Harvilla said"
"of MTV;[43] while in DIY article it got also described" → "of MTV;[43] while in a DIY article, the song was described"
Remove commas around Lindsay Weinberg
"from Vulture.com called it" → "from Vulture called it a"
"while Alex McLevy from" → "whereas Alex McLevy from" to be less repetitive
Italicise Entertainment Weekly
"while its tune was called" → "alongside it being called" since the song is referred to as a tune; don't take things so literally
"said that the song's second verse" → "said that certain lyrics"
"said that it's" → "said that it is"
"while calling the subject matter" → "as well as labeling the subject matter"
"sounding to her" → "sounding to Eilish's" and mention the album's title as well as adding the release year
"Evening Standard's Emily Phillips opinied that it" → "the Evening Standard's Emily Phillips opined it"
Shouldn't the img be in the second para of music and lyrics instead since it focuses on the lyrical meaning? Also, pipe Insider to Insider (website) per MOS:LINK2SECT
"full, uneasy bloom."" → "full, uneasy bloom"." per MOS:QUOTE
Remove wikilink on electro-pop
Pipe goth-pop to Goth rock
Mention the previous single by name since it has not been referenced yet in this section
"but noted that" → "but noted how"
"They praised the song saying" → "He praised the song, saying"
"the song goes on."" → "the song goes on"."
"called "NDA"'s title line as" → "called the song's title line"
"Writing for musicOMH, John Murphy" → "For musicOMH, John Murphy"
"like future classics."" → "like future classics"."
"that "NDA" with "Therefore I Am" are "tracks tained" → "that "NDA" is "tained" since this quote works without both tracks
"Stereogum written that the song" → "Stereogum wrote that the song" with the wikilink
"and that is" → "and that it is"
"Writing for The New York Times, Lindsay Zoladz" → "For The New York Times, Lindsay Zoladz"
Pipe Universal Music Poland to Universal Music Polska
"as "darker side of" → "as "a darker side of"
"Ellen Peirson-Hagger of New Statesman" → "Ellen Peirson-Hagger of the New Statesman"
"and vocals delivery" →"and vocal delivery"
"Hannah Dailey from Billboard placed "NDA" at the 13th song on" →"Dailey placed "NDA" at number 13 in"
"Chris Willman from Variety said that because of that the song" → "Similarly, William said that because the song"
"The A.V. Club's Alex McLevy criticized the fact" → "McLevy criticized the fact"
"Oppositely, Lindsay Zoladz of The New York Times called this song," → "Oppositely, Zoladz called the song,"
Pipe Insider to Insider (website)
"real emotional pull."" → "real emotional pull"."
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 01:29, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


### Commercial performance
"by some Eilish's fans, calling" → "by some of Eilish's fans, calling"
"becoming Eilish's twelfth top 40" → "becoming Eilish's 12th top 40" per MOS:NUM
"number 75 following week," → "number 75 the following week,"
"on Hot 100, logging at number 77." → "on the Hot 100, logging position 77."
"in other US charts, it peaked at number" → "on other US charts, the song peaked at numbers"
[96] should be solely at the end of the sentence before [97], plus add a comma before respectively
"ending July 22," → "ending July 22, 2021,"
"within top 20 in" → "within the top 20 of"
"at number 18 in" → "at number 18 on the"
[99] should be solely at the end of the sentence before [100][101]
"In the UK Singles Chart," → "On the UK Singles Chart,"
Lithuania should be after UK per geographical order, plus you need to mention the other countries it reached the top 40 in per this ranking being mentioned as frequent in the lead
"at number 16, and felt off" → "at number 16 on the ARIA Singles Chart, before falling off" with the pipe
"re-entered ARIA Charts at" → "re-entered the ARIA Singles Chart at"
"the only country, where the single" → "the only country where the single" plus add a comma after top 10 mentioning the exact position
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 22:48, 24 November 2021 (UTC)


### Music video
#### Background and synopsis
"fell on her knees during the song's second chorus. She" → "falls on her knees during the song's second chorus; she" on the img text
No source mentions the video being released to YouTube nor the Eastern Time
The Line of Best Fit links to Billie's Instagram post, which mentions the hour of the video release. infsai (talkie? UwU) 16:21, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
"this was not the original concept for the music video, and that the original was" → "the original concept for the music video was"
"after the shoot," → "after she fell,"
"to her falling on her knees during the shooting." → "to the fall." plus mention her mother by name
"walking alone at night on a dimly lit desert road wearing" → "walking on a dimly lit road, wearing" per the sources
"While "NDA"'s verses" → "While the song's verses"
"shadow figures appears" → "group of shadow figures follow"
The triple images sentence is not sourced
"throughout the track's verses." → "throughout the verses."
The two choruses, outro and fall to her knees are unsourced
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 16:21, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


#### Analysis and reception
"says that them" → "said that the cars cause chaos to"
"Megan Stone from Good Morning America proposed that it may be symbolizing singer's" → "Stone proposed that the cars may be symbolizing the singer's"
"the representation of "love"." → "the representation of "trust and love"."
"Los Angeles Times called it" → "the Los Angeles Times labeled it"
Remove or replace Forbes review per WP:FORBES
"while Yohann Ruelle from Pure Charts called it" → "Ruelle called the video" and connect this with the following sentence, but use something other than "while" to be less repetitive
"says that since the video" → "said that since the video"
"set pieces" and that Eilish" → "set pieces", Eilish"
"for "decidedly dark track" as" → "for a "decidedly dark track" like"
""dark and spectacular"." → ""dark[,] and spectacular"."
"called it "fast" → "called the video a "fast"
iHeartRadio Canada should not be italicised
"said that this video" → "said the video"
"Bardají dubbed it as" → "Bardají dubbed the video as"
"submerged almost 12 million views" → "reached almost 12 million views" and mention if these are YouTube if the source(s) do
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 16:21, 22 November 2021 (UTC)


### Live performances
"On July 16," → "On July 16, 2021,"
"to Eilish's official YouTube channel." → "to Eilish's YouTube channel."
"features her brother, Finneas, playing" → "features playing"
"On August 5, Eilish" → "On August 5, 2021, Eilish"
"and cover of" → "and a cover of" plus add the release year in brackets
"performed "NDA" on" → "performed "NDA" at"
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


### Credits and personnel
Pipe vocals to Singing
Y Done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


### Charts
Good


### Release history
Format → Format(s)
Label → Label(s)
Tidal does not back up download and streaming for various regions
Y All done. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


### References
Remove or replace ref 1 per WP:RSP and the writer being a Forbes contributor, not constituing reliablity
E! Online → E! on ref 3
Fix MOS:QWQ issues with refs 6, 10, 16, 19, 32, 49, 62, 68 82
Wikilink Hot Press on ref 8 and remove wikilinks for refs 74 and 121
Fix MOS:CAPS issues with ref 11
www.thenews.com.pk → The News International on ref 12 with the wikilink
masslive → MassLive on ref 13
Cite NRJ as publisher instead on ref 15 and fix MOS:QWQ issues
Complexe → Complex on ref 17 and pipe to Complex (magazine) per MOS:LINK2SECT and fix MOS:QWQ issues
Consequence of Sound → Consequence on ref 18, piping to [[Consequence (publication) and fix MOS:QWQ issues
Cite All Access instead on refs 20, 21 and 97 and do it as publisher
WP:OVERLINK of YouTube on refs 25 and 26
Cite Noise11 as publisher instead on ref 29 and pipe to Paul Cashmere
Cite Alternative Press as publisher instead on ref 31 and fix MOS:QWQ issues
Cite Hollywood.com as publisher instead on ref 33
Wikilink The Irish Times on ref 37
Cite Musicnotes.com as publisher instead on ref 40 and fix MOS:QWQ issues
Ref 41 is supposed to be using this URL instead and fix MOS:QWQ issues
Cite Capital FM as publisher instead on ref 42
Cite MTV as publisher instead on ref 43
Cite The Ringer as publisher instead on refs 46 and 66, fixing WP:OVERLINK for the latter
Pipe Music Feed to AMTV on ref 50
Insider Inc. → Insider on refs 53 and 86, piping to Insider (website) solely on the former
WP:OVERLINK of The Line of Best Fit on ref 54 and fix MOS:QWQ issues
WP:OVERLINK of Los Angeles Times on ref 55
Pipe Cleveland.com to The Plain Dealer on ref 57
WP:OVERLINK of Billboard on refs 59, 92, 93, 95, 107, 108 and 125
WP:OVERLINK of DIY on refs 60 and 67
Wikilink The Sydney Morning Herald on ref 65
WP:OVERLINK of E on refs 69 and 115, plus fix MOS:QWQ issues with the latter
WP:OVERLINK of Entertainment Weekly on ref 71
Author-link Rob Sheffield on ref 72
Pipe Cinemabland to Future plc on ref 76
Cite Universal Music Poland as publisher instead on refs 84 and 112, piping to Universal Music Polska on the former
WP:OVERLINK of Variety on ref 85
WP:OVERLINK of NME on refs 88, 117 and 124, plus fix MOS:QWQ issues with the former and always cite as work/website
WP:OVERLINK of The Wall Street Journal on ref 90 and mark with url-access subscription
Remove or replace refs 91, 94, 96 and 102 per WP:FORBES
Ref 101's template needs to be closed and cite Billboard as work/website instead
Cite ARIA Charts as publisher instead on refs 103 and 104, fixing WP:OVERLINK for the former
Cite AGATA as publisher instead on ref 105
WP:OVERLINK of People on ref 109
Cite Bell Media Radio as publisher instead and fix MOS:CAPS issues with ref 113
Complexe → Complex on ref 114, removing pipe
WP:OVERLINK of Our Culture Mag on ref 116
Cite Unserding.de as publisher instead on ref 118
WP:OVERLINK of Dazed on ref 120
Cite SNEP as publisher instead on ref 130
Cite IFPI Greece as publisher instead on ref 132
Cite Recorded Music NZ as publisher instead on ref 136
Cite VG-lista as publisher insteda on ref 137
Wikilink Recording Industry Association (Singapore) on ref 139 and cite as publisher instead
Cite Sverigetopplistan as publisher instead on ref 141
Cite Tidal as publisher instead on ref 149
Ref 44 is a duplicate of ref 14; are you sure you shouldn't be using a different URL here?
Nope, the one used in "Background and release" section uses archive url as a primarly URL, while the one in "Music and lyrics" section uses the original as a primary URL. The reason behind that is that article has been updated, and cut the information neccesary for the former section. infsai (talkie? UwU) 01:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Copyvio score looks slightly too high at 43.8% for Capital FM; cut down the quoting level to fix this
WP:OVERLINK of Rolling Stone on refs 106, 119, 123 and 148, plus always cite as work/website and why does only one RS ref have url-access limited?
@Kyle Peake: I hope you don't mind I segregated the section to things I done, and did not done. I just wanted to segregate those things. I'm on the last stretch I suppose. I also asked one question on #Development and recording section, I forgotten to ping you back then, so I'm bringing your attention right now. infsai (talkie? UwU) 01:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
@Infsai: Thank you for the mention, the last point in development and recording that I made was done to give kudos, not as any actual suggestion. It is good you are progressing further into my points, reasonable explanation for the NME refs and why haven't you fixed Copyvio or Rolling Stone yet? --K. Peake 10:54, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
@Kyle Peake: Oh, ok. Thanks! Sometimes I don't get certain words, since my English vocabulary is not that great, as you can see probably. Regarding NME, I explained above ("Nope, the one used in 'Background and release' section uses archive url as a primarly URL, while the one in 'Music and lyrics' section uses the original as a primary URL. The reason behind that is that article has been updated, and cut the information neccesary for the former section."), while the rest of the work will be handled in next 24-ish hours hopefully. infsai (talkie? UwU) 23:06, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
@Infsai: Your mistake is understandable based on your statement about English above, but I saying the explanation for NME was acceptable and I hope the rest of this is indeed fixed soon! --K. Peake 07:51, 28 November 2021 (UTC)


### External links
Add the lyric video here


### Final comments and verdict
 On hold until all of the issues are fixed; took just over a day! --K. Peake 20:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I will eventually apply the rest of your suggestions. This will probably take like few days to accomplish - or maybe less, depending on how much time I will have. I am also planning to adding few new source to the article - I mean, I was collecting them for some time, but simply didn't find to add them earlier. Those sources include: Chorus.fm, Melty.fr, Nicki Swift, Tone Deaf, and Teen Vogue. I chose to tell you about it for the sake of clarity, and maybe to stop me from using not good source, even though I checked out all of those in WP:RSP. My methology on searching for the sources for articles is not only using Google search, but I also look on other song articles to find websites which are used as a ref there and see if they have some info about the song I'm writing about. infsai (talkie? UwU) 19:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
I applaud your heavy amount of research and you do have a good method for finding sources to use, but Nicki Swift has not been assessed at WP:RSP yet see discussion to understand why this gossip website is unreliable. --K. Peake 08:04, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for notyfing me that Nicki Swift is not a reliable source! Anyway, I changed the music video section to match your suggestions, besides the noted one. I will try to give new reliable sources and change the text of commercial performance section today or tomorrow, same with most of references work. However, I'm not sure how much time it will take to rephrase some of the article parts, so the copyvio wouldn't be that high. infsai (talkie? UwU) 16:21, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
It is fine since I do have plenty of time, but if you are struggling with paraphrasing then maybe remove some parts that aren't 100% contextual for the article. --K. Peake 09:07, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Okay, so I applied to your suggestions about the "Commercial performance" section and done some ref-related work. I hope I'd be able to accomplish the rest of the remaining work til the end of the week. And regarding your proposal, firstly I'd try to do it myself, but if I won't have an idea what to do I'll hit you up, ok? infsai (talkie? UwU) 22:48, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes that is ok; my response time will speed up if you mention me though. --K. Peake 07:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
@Kyle Peake: Ok, I guess I've done everything I could. I lowered down Copyvio of CapitalFM and fixed remaining issues. Do I have to anything else? Maybe I missed something? infsai (talkie? UwU) 22:57, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
@Infsai: You still need to fix the Rolling Stone refs in accordance with what I suggested, also Rob Sheffield's surname should be cited first for ref 77. --K. Peake 07:27, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
@Kyle Peake: So, I removed links from those refs and changed magazine into work. I also changed value next to url-access to registration only for those links that asked me for login to read the article. infsai (talkie? UwU) 22:54, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 Pass now, definitely looks better! --K. Peake 07:54, 1 December 2021 (UTC)