# Talk:Java-class cruiser

This review is transcluded from Talk:Java-class cruiser/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: GGOTCC (talk · contribs) 02:18, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
Reviewer: Parsecboy (talk · contribs) 12:37, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
I'll take this one. Parsecboy (talk) 12:37, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

General
The article was using short citations, and shouldn't have been changed per WP:CITEVAR
Several dupe links throughout the article - I recommend using User:Evad37/duplinks-alt to locate them
Images

File:H.M. Java 1935-5 in Nederlands Indië.jpg - this needs to be vetted through OTRS if we're going to accept the uploader's claim
Does OTRS mean the Volunteer Response Team? Is there something they can do regarding the images? I have not heard of them before.
Yes, it's the same - they will work with the uploader to verify they actually own the license to the image in question. See for example the template on File:Fluorescent Lamp.jpg. Parsecboy (talk) 15:22, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
File:Hr. Ms. Sumatra VRIJ.jpg - we need the author to be able to determine when the photo entered the public domain. We also need to know how this is PD in the US (which would generally mean we need to see a pre-1930 date of publication)
@KarelDoorman: I have seen you cite Schepen van de Koninklijke Marine in W.O. II before. Could you check to see if this image is in the book/if the image is credited to someone?
If you need to replace it, there are a fair few photos of Sumatra in the USN's archives here that should be fine to use. Parsecboy (talk) 15:23, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
Infobox
"6.1 m (20 ft 0 in)" - fix the rounding
Boilers generate power, they don't consume it, so those should be listed in the Installed power field
"10 × Bofors 15.0 cm (5.9 in)" - fix the rounding
"7.5 cm (3.0 in) belt" - fix the rounding
Lead
"Both ships saw action during World War II. Java was in the East Indies when war broke out." - when? Don't assume readers know specifically when you're talking about
"Sumatra was in the Netherlands when the country was invaded by Germany," - also, when? And why is this after the bit about Java, given that it was well over a year earlier?
"and sunk as a breakwater off Normandy." - again, when?
Development
Pipe Netherlands in World War I to "Dutch neutrality during World War I"
Move the link to displacement to the first occurrence in this section
Link steam turbine
Characteristics
Armed with ten Bofors Mk Six 15 cm (5.9 in) in single mounts" - 15 cm what?
More rounding issues here (same as above, but also "5.0 cm (2.0 in)" in a couple of places)
"three turbines supplied by 8 boilers" - all should be spelled out or numerals in the same sentence
link belt armor, funnel (ship), bulkhead (partition), conning tower, gun shield, flagship, ship commissioning
"The design of De Ruyter formed the basis of the De Zeven Provinciën-class cruiser, intended to replace the older Javas sometime during the 1940s.[4]: 36–37 " - this is not exactly relevant to this article.
Construction
Wait, were the ships armed with Krupp guns or Bofors? The characteristics section only mentions Bofors, but then here we see mention of eight Krupp guns (I assume 15 cm SK L/45?)
Did speed and/or endurance change for Sumatra?
I don't think so? I can check my books again
203 mm (8.0 in) - fix rounding
Link ceremonial ship launching
Modifications
"3 twin 4 cm (1.6 in) Bofors guns, while Java had two." - as above, "3" and "two" should be parallel
Ships
Capitalize "scuttled"
Java
"At the start of World War II" - when? Do you mean 1939? Or more likely, 1941? If the latter, you should reword, since WWII had of course already been going on for 2 years
"allied" - capitalize
Link Dutch East Indies campaign, Battle of Java (1942)
"When a Japanese torpedo struck her stern, her aft magazine detonated and the ship was ripped apart, and sank in about 15 minutes with most of her crew." - this is clunky and should probably be split
Sumatra
"Netherlands was invaded by Nazi Germany" - invert the order to avoid passive voice
"enemy raiders" -> "enemy surface commerce raiders" (assuming she wasn't being sent out to hunt U-boats)
@Parsecboy: Thank you for taking a look at my article, I appreciate such an experienced editor helping out! I incorporated most of your feedback, but could you elaborate on what you mean regarding the rounding issues? Should the values round up, down, or cut off unnecessary decimal values? Regarding the citations, I thought I was in the clear since I rewrote the prose. Would you like me to redo them? GGOTCC 18:35, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes, the values should have the unnecessary ".0" or "0 in" removed.
On the citations, they generally shouldn't be changed even if you rewrote the text, per WP:CITEVAR. Parsecboy (talk) 15:22, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
Shoot...I need to learn how to do short citations now.
I fixed most of the conversions, but it does not work for the draught. Do you know what causes this? GGOTCC 16:27, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
I just finished converting the article to short refs, swapped out the photo of Sumatra, and adjusted most convert templates alongside encoperating your previous feedback. Is there anything else? GGOTCC 17:02, 24 May 2025 (UTC)
It's the ftin parameter that forces a figure for inch even when it's zero - I fixed those two.
I had a look in Campbell's Naval Weapons of World War II and he states that Java and Sumatra were armed with "Mk 6 Bofors M 1924" guns, which were 149.1mm /50 guns. What exactly does Noppen say about the Krupp guns? According to Navweaps (which is not a WP:RS unfortunately), eight of the guns were manufactured by Krupp, while the rest were built by Bofors. I know @Snowdawg: and @Grieg2: have written a number of articles about naval guns - they may know more. Parsecboy (talk) 12:37, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
Checking out the respective page in Campbell, the guns are designated the Bofors Mk 6 but nothing is said about it being a Bofors design. According to Noppen, "It was originally intended for each cruiser to carry an armament of ten 15cm Krupp No. 6 (the export version of the SK L/50) guns, individually mounted in open-backed shields. Eight 15cm guns, found in a Krupp warehouse, were purchased in 1920, while the remaining twelve 15cm guns were ordered in 1922 from the Swedish firm of Bofors, which had purchased licenses from Krupp." It also refers to the guns as, "15cm Krupp Export Model No. 6 (SK L/50)" and to this image of a gun with "No 51 Krupp" on the breech. I'll update the article to remove mention of the L/45. I guess the 15 cm SK L/50 was the name of an irrelevant export model of something.
Freeman's Naval Weapons of World War One states, "The Royal Netherlands Navy designated its guns by numbers for each calibre, e.g. 15cm No. 5, which might equate to 15 cm Mk 5....No 6 was the 15cm/50 in the post-war Java class cruisers. It was a Bofors M1924". The Navweaps page seems to describe the Dutch 15 cm/50 KM 6, 7, and 8 as a heterogeneous designation.
Is there anything specific you are concerned/have questions about? GGOTCC 14:56, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
I think we're in order as far as how the guns are described. I think the only outstanding issue is the lead image. Parsecboy (talk) 18:08, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
How does the new one work? GGOTCC 20:46, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
I would still like to use the former lead image later on. How would I contact OTRS regarding the matter? GGOTCC 20:59, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
The submitter would have to do it - they were still active on Commons last month, so you'll probably be able to get in touch with them. The new image should be fine to use (and I think that works better anyway - the previous one had too little contrast between the ship and the sky, in my opinion). I think we're good to promote now. Parsecboy (talk) 22:42, 25 May 2025 (UTC)
Thanks! On to my first featured topic! GGOTCC 23:18, 25 May 2025 (UTC)