# Talk:First Motion Picture Unit

Any proof James Stewart was in the FMPU? His bio says he was in a regular Army unit and IMDB has no credits for him during the war. --Jamoche 18:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The article does not claim that Stewart was assigned to the 1st Motion Picture Unit, it merely states he is connected with a film the unit made. Lineagegeek (talk) 19:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

The image of Stewart & Gable was taken in England when we can presume thet had been transferred out of the FMPU and into combat duty. There is a sleeve patch for the 18th Army Air Force [1], but no indication that the Base Unit wore it. Note that we do not have that insignia on commons. That said, several photos here [2] show personnel wearing the Hop Arnold insignia on their sleeves. I think the Hap Arnold is the best image for the infobox. – Lionel (talk) 02:14, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Please note that there is not nor has there ever been an "18th Army Air Force"  The patch shown is claimed for the Eighteenth Air Force.  This Numbered Air Force was formed in 1951 after the USAF no longer wore Shoulder Sleeve Insignia and had an emblem approved shortly after it was organized AFHRA Factsheet, Eighteenth Air Force (accessed 26 May 2012).  I regard the authenticity of this insignia with strong suspicion.  Also, despite the similarity in name, there is no relationship between Eighteenth Air Force and the 18th AAF Base Unit. Lineagegeek (talk) 19:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
What Lionelt refers to as the "Hap Arnold insignia" is the approved Shoulder Sleeve Insigne for the Army Air Forces and was worn by all AAF personnel who were not assigned to establishments with their own SSIs (such as Numbered Air Forces) it was worn by literally millions of folks during WW II and is by no means unique to the 1st Motion Picture Unit. Lineagegeek (talk) 20:00, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Question: to what does the official designation of FMPU, "18th Army Air Force Base Unit", refer?  Were there 17 other "Base Units"? Or were they the Base Unit for the "18th Army Air Force"? And was a Base Unit similar to a station? – Lionel (talk) 01:44, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
There were literally thousands of AAF Base Units.  They were created in the US in 1944 to free up manpower for overseas assignment.  Essentially, all units in the US that were not programmed to move overseas were disbanded and replaced by bulk authorizations of manpower to the various commands to form units as needed.  These were AAF Base Units (the same thing occurred with Army Serice Forces.  To prevent duplication, blocks of numbers were allotted to the various commands.  The numbers 1-100 were reserved for units like the 1st MPU that reported directly to Hq, AAF and some of their constituent units.  I'm away from my reference books right now, but essentially what happened in the spring of 1944 was the 1st MPU was disbanded and all of its personnel and equipment transferred to the 18th AAF Base Unit, which was parenthetically (1st Motion Picture Unit).  When I'm back home, I'll probably add a footnote to the article. Lineagegeek (talk) 21:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Betancourt--long article in Air & Space, bonus: 1 pubic domain photo of Clark Gable & another of Reagan
Cunningham 2007--short piece, bonus: PD photo!
AMPAS--Oral History with Owen Crump. There ia a gallery of 8 photos--the Reagan photo is from the Reagan Library--but not credited--and is in the PD. Maybe there are more?
O'Connor--in depth article
"During WWII"--info about Hollywood Commandos
Anderson-- re: Hollywood Commandos (1997) documentary narrated by Ron Reagan
McMurtrie Dr. Seuss
King 1997
Orr
McGee "Cinematography Goes to War"--authoritative (free copy located by GabrielF)
Cunningham 2005, scholarly (I have a copy thanks to--you guessed it--GabrielF), still from Men of the Sky
Thomas
Klein. Celluloid Commandos--his book
King 2005
Biederman
maslowski, Pacific Military Academy used by Replacement Pool (cameramen), rifle range
Greenberg-wald, in depth primary source Jul-1946
loc pic of James Bray
boyle bray's DFC
450th bomb group re: early Ft Roach & combat cameramen -- not RS
barrier animation
– Lionel (talk) 23:40, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

E. J. Fleming's "Carole Landis" has some details on the financial arrangements behind Fort Roach that might be of use--thanks to Hchc2009 – Lionel (talk) 10:42, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


### Top secret: Project 152
FMPU produced 30 top secret films used in the B-29 bombing runs of Tokyo in 1944. Crucial to the war effort.

Nutter
Klein
Orr (same as above)
"Hollywood"
Cunningham 2007 (diff. from above) w/ photo!!!

Article is at 1169 chars. Needs 5845 total chars for 5x expansion. Let's git er done: Talk:First Motion Picture Unit/workpage. – Lionel (talk) 06:34, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

This sample could be expanded with entries from the personnel cat and made into a standalone article:
Pesce, Joseph Salvatore
Captain
1905-1963

"After conducting extensive research on the topography of Japan, an eighty foot by sixty foot scale model (1 foot = 1 mile) of the country was fabricated.....".
Moriori (talk) 01:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Verified against the source [3]. – Lionel (talk) 01:12, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Not so. It says target areas, not the country. I'll change it. Moriori (talk) 01:28, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:First Motion Picture Unit/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Hchc2009 (talk · contribs) 19:03, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll read through properly later and start the review tomorrow. Hchc2009 (talk) 19:03, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, all done, only minor points to address, listed below. Nice work! 11:23, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Good to go. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Well-written:
(a) the prose is clear and concise, respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct; 

The lead says that this was "the first military unit made up entirely of professionals from the film industry." I'm having trouble seeing this spelt out in the main text itself though.
 Done it's here [4] – Lionel (talk) 10:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
" FMPU personnel served with distinction during World War II." - wasn't quite sure what this meant (e.g. is it a formal honour, like being "mentioned in despatches", or just a general "they did a good job"?
general they did a good job – Lionel (talk) 05:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"First Motion Picture Unit is also the title of a 1943 self-produced documentary" > "First Motion Picture Unit is also the eponymous title..."?
 Done– Lionel (talk) 05:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
" According to Mark Betancourt" - worth explaining who he is - e.g. "According to historian Mark Betancourt..." or "According to a member of the unit, Mark Betancourt..."
 Done– Lionel (talk) 05:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"The unit was unique in the methods employed to obtain recruits." - unique in what context? (e.g. in the US military, or during the Second World War, or worldwide?(
source only says "unique in the military" -- adjusted text to reflect this. However, the context is clearly the US military, and WWII, but isn't said explicitly. – Lionel (talk) 05:57, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"and could be moved in a way which simulated an airplane's flight over the model" > "and could be moved to simulate an airplane's flight..."?
 Done– Lionel (talk) 05:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"captured bomb damage inflicted on the major European cities. " > "the bomb damage"?
 Done– Lionel (talk) 10:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"The Army Air Force declined to produce and edit the footage at an estimated cost of $1 million." - unclear if this means that they declined - at a cost of $1 m - or the production and editing would have cost $1 m. I assume the former, but would be good to clarify.
 Done– Lionel (talk) 05:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
" Special Film Project 186 has been called " - by who?
 Done– Lionel (talk) 05:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"combat cameramen" - were these actually members of the FMPU, or did they just train with them? I wasn't certain from the way this section was worded.
Sources aren't clear as to their status while training with the unit; whether temporary assignment or whatever. But after training they were referred to as "alumni" and were officially assigned to the Air Force where they were sent.– Lionel (talk) 05:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"Every time you flip on the History Channel or the Discovery Channel, and you see World War II from an American perspective, you're watching the work of one of these gentlemen. That's their legacy." - such a cool quote to end on! Nicely found. :)
thank you Hchc – Lionel (talk) 05:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
(b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Complies. As a minor point (not a criterion for GA), the MOS would have the Hal Roach Studios image either right justified, or moved one paragraph down. Hchc2009 (talk)
Moved pic for extra credit. How does it look now? – Lionel (talk) 10:23, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Factually accurate and verifiable:
(a) it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout;

Fine. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:08, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
(b) it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines;

I'd question whether the "Daily News" website is a reliable source; apart from that, looks good. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:08, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
The Los Angeles Daily News is the 2nd largest paper in LA and in 2004 7 years after the cited article one of their reporters was nominated for a Pulitzer.– Lionel (talk) 10:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
No prob's then; the Free Library website just seemed to cite a "Daily News" without an author, which made it seem a bit odd! Hchc2009 (talk) 16:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
(c) it contains no original research.

No OR spotted. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:08, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Broad in its coverage:
(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;

E. J. Fleming's "Carole Landis" has some details on the financial arrangements behind Fort Roach that might be of use.
(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

All good. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:22, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each.

Neutral. Generally the article is quite "pro" the FMPU, but this accurately reflects the literature, which is also generally "pro". Hchc2009 (talk) 11:08, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Lots of current editing, but no editing war or content disputes. Hchc2009 (talk)
Illustrated, if possible, by images:
(a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; 

Yes. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:07, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
(b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

Yes. Hchc2009 (talk) 19:38, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

The lead says films "....were released theatrically." Is that meant to convey that there were released in theatres, or surrounded by/part of  theatrical goings on? Seems wrong word to me. Comments?  Moriori (talk) 00:26, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

How about "shown in public cinemas". Simpler language. GraemeLeggett (talk) 05:20, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion the units most famous member should be added in the introduction/summary.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.217.115.86 (talk) 09:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

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