# Talk:Oliver Kahn

What is Kahn's religion? Is he Jewish?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.71.141.12 (talk • contribs) 03:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

Most probably not.--217.85.76.100 21:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Because of his surname? Kahn is German, Cohen would be Jewish, or Hebrew for that matter.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.255.30.95 (talk) 09:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree, Kahn would be be a typical jewish last name (just as Cohen, Cohn etc). According to the German wikipedia entry, Oliver's Baltic German grandfather's original name was Kan which was changed to Kahn. They fled to Germany proper in WW2.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.227.144.154 (talk) 12:15, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

What's with the last two changes? the last one looks like spam and the change before it introduces very poor sentence structure.
"Kahn started at Euro 2004 but it was unsuccessful, drawing the first two group games and losing the last to the Czech Republic which eliminated them from the knockout round."
What does that even mean?Stazed 14:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to have a go correcting it into native english but no guarantees..Stazed 14:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I've done a few sections. It really is a hard slog to keep the NPOV standards high, some of the comments in there are either "kahn wasn't happy about" or they're "kahn had an awesome career" etc etc. I've done some of it for you.Stazed 15:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm missing sources for his awards. 62.251.111.252 20:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
What the f*** is an MVP?? 
Ksc should be read as KSC (and THEN everybody will know what this may mean....)
--80.133.106.113 00:38, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
MVP means Most Valuable Player.
Native english speaker badly needed here for corrections.
Hi, Kahn has been dethroned as German #1 goalie a couple of hours ago by Jürgen Klinsmann, so I've edited his profile to include this information. I've also changed the sentence "he has been able to regain his worldclass keeper status" into "he has NOT..". Please note that this has nothing to do with spur of the moment thinking or Klinsmann's decision, the simple truth is that Oliver Kahn's skills have been in question for quite some time in Germany, and there have been numerous minor to major Kahn blackouts in the past two years, not just the bungled CL game against Real Madrid (that was only the most momentous one). From a neutral point of view I would say that Kahn is still regarded as an excellent keeper, but his worldclass era is definitely long since over, not just since today. --80.145.232.26 15:34, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
–– "he is made fun of sometimes in Germany by some comedians, portraying him as a maniac gone wild." Man, when those maniacs go wild, you'd better watch out. A maniac is pretty bad, but a wild maniac is worse. Yeah, so you may have guessed I'm taking out 'gone wild'. 13/7/06

Hi there!
I think what's more important is, that the article is written in good English. As a goalkeeper Kahn has been on the decrease for quite some time (he's nearly 37 after all). And judging from all the recent interviews he knows it!! So let's just alter the grammar, syntax and style of the article. I am NOT a native speaker. Although "armed" with a degree in English I'll let the ones with an English tongue go first. So go for it, boys!!!
--Fromgermany 05:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

As a goalkeeper Kahn has been on the decrease for quite some time Exactly. But user ip 84.xxx.xxx, obviously a mentally retarded Kahn fan, keeps reverting the article to his pov. He doesn't seem willing to discuss the matter here either. What can we do about it? I request the article be locked for unregistered users to stop this guy from vandalizing it. This is an encyclopedia, not a Kahn fan page, for crying out loud!
hi,
I agree, this is an encyclopaedic article, so it should be free of all bias. And i speak as a Kahn fan. I want to put in more information about Kahn, but I am unable to find any english site. Perhaps someone who knows German can contribute.
Kinda crazy 10:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi! in the trivial I writ that Kahn was holding in a contest each penalty - I got the information from the German Wikipedia. I hope you can fix wrong grammar if there are any mitakes ;-)

I edited the carrer span number to 2009 because he is retiring in 2009. If I'm wrong please advise and re-edit

You are wrong. He is retiring end of season 2007–2008. --Jaellee (talk) 17:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Okay, thanks.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.183.68.91 (talk) 20:19, 29 February 2008 (UTC) 

According to our Euro 2008 article, he designed the controversial match ball. Is this correct, or was that a different Oliver Kahn?--MartinUK (talk) 12:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Any sources ? 84.139.227.205 (talk) 07:42, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know of any, so I removed this category. --Jaellee (talk) 17:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
He has Latvian ancestry on his mother's side. Heard it in a German interview a while back.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.153.221.249 (talk) 17:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Oliver Kahn/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 20:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Quck fail criteria: 

Has reliable sources 
Is written neutrally 
No valid cleanup tags 
Is relatively stable with no edit wars 
Not specifically concerned with a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint 
Unfortunately at this time, this article meets the quick fail criteria.
While it contains reliable sources, it does not have enough, and chunks of the article are unreferenced.
Oliver Kahn#Karlsruher SC is completely unreferenced.
Most facts in the Oliver Kahn#Bayern Munich section are unreferenced.
Similarly most facts in the Oliver Kahn#International career require citations.
The fact about his father in the Oliver Kahn#Personal life section requires a source.
There are also some dead links that need replacing. [1]
The article is filled with point-of-view statements. Some of the most obvious include:
"He is considered to be one of the greatest goalkeepers of all time" - according to whom?
"a quality goalkeeper"
"a key player in the fondly-remembered" - again, fondly-remembered according to whom?
"a formidable player"
"reliable shot stopper"
"perhaps his worst performance"
"Kahn's remarkably fast reflexes"
"Kahn’s shot-stopping prowess and leadership"
The trivia section needs to go. Merge any relevant info to the main body of the article, and remove the rest. Make sure the information merged to the main body contains sources, e.g. "Kahn is named Kalm on the popular sports game Pro Evolution Soccer 6 as a result of Kahn holding the rights to his image." requires a source.
I'd also recommend expanding out the Oliver Kahn#Karlsruher SC section - it seems very short at the moment.
There are ambigous links present in the article which need to be disambiguated. [2]
I'd also suggest adding alt text to the images, although this is not a requirement.
Before renominating the article at WP:GAN, I'd suggest a peer review. This will help in determining whether the article meets the required standards.
Please consider helping WP:GAN by reviewing another good article nomination. Help and advice on how to do so is available at Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles, and you can ask for the help of a GAN mentor if you wish.
Result: not promoted.
♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 20:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistency#
Is it three consecutive Best European Goalkeeper awards or four consecutive Best European Goalkeeper? The article on Best European Goalkeeper awards indicates that he has won 3 in succession, but this article claims that he has been awarded 4 of those in succession.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.16.250 (talk) 22:04, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 

This review is transcluded from Talk:Oliver Kahn/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Apterygial talk 02:17, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
Per request, I'll be conducting this GA review. On first impression, the article clearly needs a copyedit, which I'll carry out before conducting the assessment proper. Owing to real life pressures, this review may be conducted slowly, but hopefully should be completed within the usual one week window. Apterygial talk 02:22, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
I started working on your concerns. Since I'm busy working on a FAC nomination I might work slowly during this nomination.--Gunt50 (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Lead

Do you have a cite for his date of birth and middle name?
I sourced both of them, using his article on Encyclopædia Britannica. --Gunt50 (talk) 15:46, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I think the lead has two much focus on the awards he won and his status in the history of the game, and not enough on him as a player. For example, you could mention some of the pivotal games in his career, more detail on his transfer to Bayern Munich, and any significant controversies he may have been involved in.
I've been working on the lead. I didn't write most of it, so I made it more 'neutral' in comparison with the former version. I also broke the single paragraph into three. I'm not sure if that's ok now, so you should take a look now. --Gunt50 (talk) 21:23, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Seems alright now. Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Karlsruher SC

What league did Karlsruher SC play in when he made his debut?
I clarified it was in the Bundesliga's first division. --Gunt50 (talk) 15:46, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Was the rout of Valencia the second leg of a two-leg round? I'm assuming this was held at Wildparkstadion, although it isn't entirely clear.
I tried to clarify the confusion by adding that the so-called Miracle at Wildparkstasion took place in Karlsruhe and the first game was held at Valencia's Mestalla stadium.--Gunt50 (talk) 17:38, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Bayern Munich

Why express the transfer fee in Euros here? Given the currency wasn't yet in use, it would be more appropriate to express the figure in the original D-marks, and offer Euros as an alternative (in brackets).
I did it already --Gunt50 (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
"Bayern defeated Bordeaux in the 1996 UEFA Cup Final." What was Kahn's role in this game/championship? Any important stops/mistakes?
I can't find any relevant information about his performance during the tournament, except for the mention of his name as the starting goalkeeper. --Gunt50 (talk) 16:15, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
OK. Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
"... and was named German goalkeeper of the year for the second time in his career." When was the first? More detail here on his performance during the season would help the reader understand why he was awarded the honour.
He received the honor multiple times. It's barely mentioned on Bayern's site. I can't find information regarding that season, as it is the case with other tournaments like UEFA cup. --Gunt50 (talk) 16:15, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
OK. Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
"He immediately received his second yellow card of the game." And this meant a red card?
Yes, I replaced the expression on the article. --Gunt50 (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
What do you mean by "integrated the squad"?
I meant was part. Since the verb was confusing, I replaced it. --Gunt50 (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
"Bayern Munich won the next Bundesliga season with Kahn." (note my edit here). More detail on this season would be useful, especially given you've mentioned his game went into a decline just before.
"As of 2009, he is the all time clean sheet leader in the history of the Bundesliga, with 197." Is this still the case?
Yes. I updated it on the article.
You mention his nickname 'King Kahn' here without background. Given this is only mentioned below in Personal life, I think it might be better to leave the nickname out in this section.
I'm sorry I didn't notice this before. I didn't write that line. It's now replaced for 'him'. --Gunt50 (talk) 17:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
International career

I'm interested in the rationale behind calling the European championship "Euro 96" instead of "1996 UEFA European Football Championship" (which is what it links to). If this is the standard on Wikipedia, it seems odd that the longer form is the name of the article.
I replaced Euro xx for xx UEFA European Football Championship within the article. --Gunt50 (talk) 17:44, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
"Many in the media touted Kahn's remarkably fast reflexes." I'm not a big fan of saying "many" like this; it sounds imprecise. Could you use one such media source as an example of a wider view?
I can't find reliable sources for that line. I think we could reverse it since it's not that relevant for the article. Are you agree? --Gunt50 (talk) 21:42, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes. I can't see any real reason to keep it. Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I reversed the sentence. --Gunt50 (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
"Despite criticism, Kahn remained as Germany's number one for the upcoming World Cup." It would be nice to have some of this criticism included here.
It's being a heavy duty to find written critics, as it is the case for Bundesliga/Champions League stats. I think it went hand on hand with the fact that he was getting older. --Gunt50 (talk) 23:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I was bold and removed that line. If you run across any examples of the criticism add it back in. Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Did Germany lose the 2002 World Cup final?
Yeah. I clarified on the article as 'Once the game was over with Brazil as the new champion, he stood alone and disappointed in his goal'. Hope this make it less confusing. --Gunt50 (talk) 21:47, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
"... to stimulate the competence between both." What do you mean here? To make each play better (competence) or to stimulate competition?
It was to stimulate competition. The coach wanted to determine who was the better option for the starting position. Maybe I haven't used the right word. I replaced competence for competition. --Gunt50 (talk) 21:52, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
"... and later saved Deco’s shot made from just inside the box." Clarify which box.
I clarified it was from the penalty area. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:02, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The last two sentences of the section need a cite (or cites).
Done --Gunt50 (talk) 16:15, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Personal life

"... he had a Latvian grandmother and his father, the former midfielder for Karlsruher SC, was born in Latvia, in a city named Liepāja, where he is considered as a folk hero." Two points here: "the former midfielder for Karlsruher SC" can probably be struck, as Rolf has already been introduced, and doesn't need clarifying. Second, what do you mean by "folk hero"? In my mind, this either needs explaining, or if you think it's not relevant to do so for this article it should be struck.
Clarification reversed. I changed folk hero for popular figure. --Gunt50 (talk) 16:15, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I changed it to "where he remains well-known" (if you're not happy with that, let me know). If you find any detail on this it would be good to explain it.
This whole section is to be honest a little messy; it reads as a seemingly random collection of facts rather than an integrated summary. I appreciate this is often a problem for biographies when it comes to Personal life sections, but I think it could be improved. For example, you could expand on his work with charities. Where does he currently live? Is he working (such as commentating)?
I merged the pop. culture section into this one. I tried to expand it a little by explaining the goals of the organizations he supports. Do you think the section is complete enough now? --Gunt50 (talk) 23:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Popular culture

"The song was later covered by the Düsseldorf punk band Die Toten Hosen." Cite needed.
I reversed it. There aren't reliable sources to prove it and seems rather redundant to the article. I merged the one-liner sentence into the rest of the paragraph.--Gunt50 (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
"In 2009, he integrated the jury of a China Central Television television reality show". Again, I'm confused by what you mean by "integrated".
I changed for he was part, as i did in the previous appearances of the verb. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:02, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
"The same year was inaugurated his wax figure in the Berlin filial of the Madame Tussaud museum." What do you mean by "filial" here ("Pertaining to or befitting a son or daughter", according to Wikitionary)?
I meant branch, so I changed the word for this one.--Gunt50 (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I think this section should be merged into Personal life, and perhaps be renamed. Some of the things mentioned here aren't really popular culture (his working with ZDF and CCTV, for example).
I agree on this one. I didn't do this before 'cause it was the structure before I get to work on the article. It's done now, so take a look to see if the paragraph distribution I mad within the section is appropriated. --Gunt50 (talk) 16:25, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Images

File:Oliver Kahn 06-2004.jpg needs an English description.
I translated the one in German--Gunt50 (talk) 16:27, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
File:Oliver Kahn.jpg is marked as CC 2.0, but its original Flickr page is marked copyright. Given the file was uploaded by a bot, there's a good chance there could be a problem here. You might what to see if you can clear it up on Commons.
Any progress on this one? It's not an important image so it wouldn't be terrible if it was simply removed. Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Since I don't know much about images issues, I'm still waiting to do it. I'm gonna solve this soon.--Gunt50 (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I removed it from the article and I got other image to illustrate better the article. I did also some style reforms. You should took a look at these modifs.--Gunt50 (talk) 20:24, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
References

It concerns me the infobox isn't referenced. I don't think {{Infobox football biography}} offers a referencing parameter, but it's probably something the football wikiproject should be considering, as there is a lot of information there that is not mentioned elsewhere.
I checked other userboxes, like Xabi Alonso's, that don't contain a lot of references (the ones that do). Is that your concern on this one?
I mean put cites next to the parts of the infobox which aren't mentioned in the article proper (things like height, which Alonso's does). Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I sourced the height. Is that alright now? --Gunt50 (talk) 15:21, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Make sure all German references have the language=German parameter. Most do, but I found a couple of examples at quick glance ([3] and [4]; 4 and 9).
I took care of that. --Gunt50 (talk) 22:48, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
They all need work and publisher information. Again, this is already the case for most, but a check wouldn't hurt (examples: [5] and [6]; 59 and 78).
You mean all refs?. I checked other soccer players' articles, like Xabi Alonso or Fernando Torres. In most of the refs publisher and work are not always clear and in several templates have only included only one of both. I think both are required for FA status, so I didn' put much effort on that, but I can work on that if necessary.--Gunt50 (talk) 22:48, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I haven't yet done spotchecks, nor checked reliability, which I'll do in the next couple of days after you've dealt with the other points.
General points

The article left me wanting to know more about Kahn as a player. What kind of goalkeeper was he? Particularly good against penalties, one-on-ones, in the air? Distribution skills? Any weaknesses? Right- or left-footed/handed? As a leader (given he was captain of the German national team)?
I found a note concerning his attributes. I'm not sure where in tha article should I include it.--Gunt50 (talk) 23:19, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
What you could do is create a dedicated section (such as Reputation) where you could put this information, as well as the paragraphs in Personal life on his nicknames and popularity in Asia. Apterygial talk 03:35, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I created the section and added the info. --Gunt50 (talk) 15:21, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Move the information on his nickname, wax figure and Die Prinzen song to the section (it's much better suited there than in Personal life). I gave the section a copyedit for prose and context (I think it's best to point out that Bayern Munich lists those attributes). I think I'd still like to see more on Kahn as a player, but this is fine as is. Apterygial talk 01:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Alright. I'm done with these tasks. --Gunt50 (talk) 02:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Here are my edits. You should review them, and revert as you see fit. Feel free to ask me about any of them, or any of my comments above, breaking up my comments. I've put the article on hold; ping me when you feel you've dealt with the existing points. If I don't hear much within seven days, the article may be failed. Apterygial talk 06:30, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Sourcing

What makes the following websites reliable? (This Signpost dispatch is useful for answering these questions).
World Soccer News
England Football Online
Fußball24
National Football Teams.com
There's still a link to this one. Apterygial talk 01:52, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation
And this one. Apterygial talk 01:52, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
I replaced the ones you listed here.--Gunt50 (talk) 18:03, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I hadn't spot those at first. I removed them. --Gunt50 (talk) 02:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
The following links are dead:
Arsenal boss has a striking dilemma
USA vs. Germany
The madness of Jens
Training mit "King Kahn"
I removed all of them, except for the one from USA today. I still have to find a reliable source to replace it.--Gunt50 (talk) 18:03, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I replaced the last one. The work is done. --Gunt50 (talk) 01:36, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
The publisher of the China Daily is (officially) China Daily Information Co, not the CCP. Apterygial talk 05:19, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I corrected it. --Gunt50 (talk) 15:21, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 The article now meets the GA criteria. Apterygial talk 09:30, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

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His first Bundesliga game was a 0:4 defeat, not a 4:0 victory..  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.172.166 (talk) 00:48, 11 September 2018 (UTC) 

Curious. https://web.archive.org/web/20121022173044/http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=325636 supports that Karlsruher SC lost. I will correct. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:45, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

I thought it was quite amusing that the only statistics given in the tables in the article were "appearances" and "goals." Of course, being a goalkeeper, all of his goals statistics are 0. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have actual goalkeeping statistics, such as saves or clean sheets, rather than goals?
Tomcres (talk) 01:39, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

@Tomcres: Not really a question for this article but rather one to be asked at Template talk:Infobox football biography. While rare, goalkeepers have been known to score goals. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:49, 8 January 2020 (UTC)