# Talk:James Graham (British Army soldier)

He? Its not an article. Please be serious. --Ironhoof (talk) 23:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm getting there.  Just the framework outlined so I can slot in the rest; I've 3 or 4 books and several web links, so give me time.  Gwinva (talk) 23:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

These might warrant further investigation:

http://www.army.mod.uk/coldstreamguards/history.htm done.
http://waterloobattletours.users.btopenworld.com/index_files/Page4672.htm done
http://books.google.com/books?id=ozpiotlbYhkC&pg=PA363&lpg=PA363&dq=Hougoumont+James+Graham&source=web&ots=5dMLWS_J3j&sig=pT89OYJKe92fBve4AERjTPAfGyA done
http://www.britishbattles.com/waterloo/waterloo-june-1815.htm done
http://www.coldstreamguards-boro.org/Tribute%20to%20the%202nd%20Bt,.htm doneGwinva (talk) 00:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Some more:

http://books.google.com/books?id=WIaa967vOTcC&pg=PA239&lpg=PA239&dq=%22James+Graham%22+Kilmainham&source=web&ots=m4Fz8GytIg&sig=YVks72w_I-7yhp6EyQdIDNBkJDM
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/FERMANAGH-GOLD/2004-05/1085547422 -unciteable, but dates and details to chase up: a plaque erected to his memory in Kilmainham hosp, then transferred to St Tigernach's church (prob St Tiernach's in Clones); also says he's from Drummully which suggests Clones rather than Cloona, which doesn't seem to exist.
http://books.google.com/books?id=N9fis-W1nHEC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=cloona+co+monaghan&source=web&ots=uP4qS4MYcx&sig=jQsbBJ0xE86eQS9sYuMHhZoCUQE - done (obit). has him as John!
Gwinva (talk) 03:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

http://books.google.com/books?id=7VlvIpKDXBoC&pg=PR18&lpg=PR18&dq=graham+hougoumont&source=web&ots=WHhs7M9DXQ&sig=JCEK8Qvh-04kUEhKVQNUZiC8qxQ#PPA51,M1 - nothing new, but a Sgt's account, so some comment worthwhile? -done
http://books.google.com/books?id=p4HldJpMO0gC&dq=graham+hougoumont&q=Graham&pgis=1 -Dickens' Household Words, but only a snippet.- ref made
http://books.google.com/books?id=PlUBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=graham+hougoumont&source=web&ots=aDDjWQ5GFx&sig=2uLG0txUrEWhyMluVA2GUjGSFUQ#PPA79,M1 -done, people's life Wellington
 http://books.google.com/books?id=k4dJAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA86&lpg=RA1-PA86&dq=hougoumont+gate+graham&source=web&ots=uhV4fkftmj&sig=uHUlKe-UFvT0zX-UWHSBenZ9vI8 - done. Gwinva (talk) 23:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
cigarette cards! for W.D. & H.O. Wills, 1915 part of the Waterloo set. http://www.britishempire.co.uk/media/cigarettecards/cigarettewaterloo/cigarettewaterloo17.htm Gwinva (talk) 05:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
models! http://www.packetloss.co.uk/militarymodelcraft/pdf/2008/March/P25-26%20Defending%20the%20Gates-output.pdf Gwinva (talk) 04:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The article looks pretty good for a start, congratulations.  First, I fixed the French and replaced it with British, that was my mistake, wasn't paying attention. Soldiers are listed tagged by the country(ies) they served, not where they fought.  Second, I marked supporting materials because it needs a picture or portrait of him (or a grave if there aren't any of him). For the moment this is not a top priotiry since the infobox is there, you can sqeek by for a bit.  As for the referencing and citation, I marked it because I know the article needs expanding.  Personally, I do not like marking referencing and citation as complete unless the article is meets criteria two and three first (personal preference) because the changing length of the article means it will need more and better citations.  Feel free to leave any further comments on my talk page, and if you'd like me to reassess the article at any time, just let me know there.  Keep up the good work. Cromdog (talk) 22:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that all makes sense. I'll keep plugging away.  There is a portrait at the Irish Galleries which I saw on one site (but can't find it now).  Have to hope someone Irish comes along for a grave shot!  Gwinva (talk) 23:46, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps you should put a notice at WikiProject Ireland asking for picture of the grave, and ask if the portrait at the Irish Galleries is in the public domain or not? Cromdog (talk) 00:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Good idea.  Have done so.  Gwinva (talk) 01:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

If you're in Ireland:
Sources say Graham was born at "Cloona", County Monaghan, which I think is probably Clones.  Certainly, an unciteable blog mentions he's from Drummelly. (b 1791). It would be great to get some photos or pictures, of gravestones/plaques etc, plus confirmation of his birth, if there was anyone here willing to take up the challenge.  There's a watercolour portrait of him at the National Gallery of Ireland, if anyone can discover if it's in the public domain.  He died at Royal Hospital, Kilmainham on 23 or 28 April 1845, had a military funeral and is prob buried nearby.  The bloggy site also mentioned there was a memorial plaque at the hospital which was transferred to St Tiernach's Church in Clones. If anyone local to any of those places could investigate/grab photos I would be greatly in your debt. 

If you're a Napoleonic-era enthusiast:
I've got pretty much as far as I can with the resources available to me, so I was wondering if anyone has anything more to add.  What would be great, too, is Robert Gibb's famous painting of the gates being shut.  I've seen it replicated on dozens of sites, but am not sure how to discover the copyright status.  He also, apparently, was awarded a special gallantry medal (which one source speculated would have been a VC if they'd been invented).  Any ideas what that would be, and whether it's anything official?
Thanks, Gwinva (talk) 04:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps some use can be made of these:

Booth, p 86: The Duke then said, ' It is generally thought that the battle 
of Waterloo was one of the greatest battles ever fought : such is not my opinion, 
but I say nothing upon that head. The success of the battle of Waterloo, however, 
turned upon the closing of the gates of Hougoumont. These gates were 
closed in the most courageous manner, at the very nick of time, by the effort of 
Sir James Macdonnel. I cannot help thinking, therefore, that Sir James is the 
man to whom you should give the £500.' " 
Sir James Macdonnel was applied to : he listened to the story of the 
executors, expressed his thanks to the great hero for his award, but said, ' I cannot 
claim all the merit due to the closing of the gates of Hongoumont ; for 
Serjeant John Graham, who saw with me the importance of the step, rushed 
forward, and together WE shut the gates. What I should therefore propose is that 
the serjeant and myself divide the legacy between us.' The executors, delighted 
with the proposal, adopted it at once, and Serjeant Graham was rewarded with 
hie share of the £500. " 

An interesting aside: http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=qVUBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA72&dq=%22Waterloo+Medal%22++Fraser&lr=#PPA71,M1 discusses the £500 gift, claiming it Macdonnel and Sergeant Fraser, and that neither Macdonnel nor Fraser saw the money it suggests it never existed, and the whole story became mixed up from the annuity story! The DNB certainly does not mention it, of Graham or Macdonnell. Siborne doesn't mention the £500 despite having spoken to Graham personally: http://books.google.com/books?id=WIaa967vOTcC&pg=PR16&vq=Graham&source=gbs_search_r&cad=0_2&sig=0WwN-0sGpyrqrRUeysdjFQPzkxI  Worth presenting, anyway. Gwinva (talk) 20:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I've added one quote box to the article to see how it goes, but I don't think there's room for this one.  But it adds a new dimension about Graham. Gwinva (talk) 01:42, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Good job with the GA. Only thing that I would suggest is that you might want to see if you could find any pics. of him. Cheers, ṜέđṃάяķvюĨїήīṣŢ  Drop me a line§ 19:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I liked the article a lot, but there is a problem with some of the citations. See my how to guide below for more information.--Jackyd101 (talk) 10:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
The internet inline citations used in this article are improperly formatted. Internet citations require at the very least information on the  title, publisher and last access date of any webpages used. If the source is a news article then the date of publication and the author are also important. This information is useful because it allows a reader to a) rapidly identify a source's origin b) ascertain the reliability of that source and c) find other copies of the source should the website that hosts it become unavaliable for any reason. It may also in some circumstances aid in determining the existance or status of potential copyright infringments. Finally, it looks much tidier, making the article appear more professional. There are various ways in which this information can be represented in the citation, listed at length at Wikipedia:Citing sources. The simplest way of doing this however is in the following format:
<ref>{{cite web|(insert URL)|title=|publisher=|work=|date=|author=|accessdate=}}</ref> 
As an example:

<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.discovery.org/a/3859|title=Avoiding a Thirty Years War|publisher=www.discovery.org|work=[[The Washington Post]]|date=2006-12-21|author=Richard W. Rahn|accessdate=2008-05-25}}</ref>
which looks like:

Richard W. Rahn (2006-12-21). "Avoiding a Thirty Years War". The Washington Post. www.discovery.org. Retrieved 2008-05-25.
If any information is unknown then simply omit it, but title, publisher and last access dates are always required. I strongly recommend that all internet inline references in this article be formatted properly, this is something that the reviewer should have insisted on before promoting the article. If you have any further questions please contact me and as mentioned above, more information on this issue can be found at Wikipedia:Citing sources. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 10:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

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