# Talk:Involuntary hospitalization of Joyce Brown

I'm disappointed that this article does not tell the whole story: How the ACLU cleaned her up and gave her a job so as to make her look normal for the hearing. How they arranged for her to speak at Harvard. How after Mayor Kotch's attempt to provide help for her was defeated the ACLU abandoned her and left her to return to the streets and meet the end described in the posting.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arturo 1929 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC) 

This should probably be at something like Involuntary hospitalization of Joyce Patricia Brown, since most of the news is about her hospitalization and related trial, laws, etc. If nobody objects I'll boldly move it in the next day or two. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:16, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Actually, looking at the sourcing, this seems pretty straightforward. I'm going to go ahead and make the move. If someone objects you can revert and we can have a formal discussion. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:19, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Given that the sources in the article refer to her generally as Joyce Brown, instead of her full name, and since the new article title doesn't need natural disambiguation between other Joyce Browns, shouldn't the article title be "Involuntary hospitalization of Joyce Brown"? :3 F4U (they/it) 22:45, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Debating adding this: the John Roland/Joyce Brown interview. It would be a straightforward addition except I suspect the uploader doesn't own the rights. :/ — Rhododendrites talk \\ 03:12, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree that an EL would unfortunately run afoul of WP:COPYLINK. But I actually think you could directly include a portion of that video in the article as non-free content. I think it easily meets the contextual significance criterion. The interview is the subject of sourced commentary in the article, and "its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic", in that viewing some of the interview gives the reader a clear sense of the attitudes and demeanours of Roland and Brown in the interview, in a way that cannot be conveyed in text. Understanding how Brown presented herself in public appearances and how she was treated by media figures is key to understanding the topic of the article. Colin M (talk) 16:40, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
Strongly agree that this would be a worthwhile addition as non-free content. It's the subject of sourced commentary within the article and the inclusion of a video clip provides readers an understanding that simply wouldn't be possible through text. :3 F4U (they/it) 02:16, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@Rhododendrites Sorry to bother you again, but I've just realized the HuffPost article is by a HuffPost contributor, rather than a staff writer. Per WP:RSP, Until 2018, the US edition of HuffPost published content written by contributors with near-zero editorial oversight. These contributors generally did not have a reputation for fact-checking, and most editors consider them highly variable in quality. Editors show consensus for treating HuffPost contributor articles as self-published sources, unless the article was written by a subject-matter expert. I don't believe there's anything cited to that article that isn't found in the other citations there, so I'll remove it if that's alright. :3 F4U (they/it) 13:34, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

@Freedom4U: Good catch. I don't think I realized that Huffpost had that "contributor" thing (or I just forgot). Yeah, I don't think anything relies on it. When I'm building out an article I tend to err on the side of including a source even if it's just to spread the weight around a bit. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:45, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Although FWIW the author appears to have some expertise (and may even be notable). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:54, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
I did see that, but I don't believe that he counts as a subject matter expert. I do think I may write an article on him now though... :3 F4U (they/it) 13:59, 10 July 2023 (UTC)