# Talk:Cross of Saint James

The depicted black cross is not the cross as it is known. It neither has a sword blade, but more of a small picket, nor the fleury ending but rather something brushy. I replaced it with the more common depiction in Spain. Arnoutf 17:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The image that was in place was apprpriate. Your removal of the cross image is a violation of WP:Point. Please stop. --evrik (talk) 17:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
See Talk:James,_son_of_Zebedee#Images for a more complete discussion on this, and why I argue it is not appropriate. Arnoutf 22:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
The text now explicitly states that "it was the emblem of the twelfth-century military Order of Santiago". Hence that the emblem of the order and the cross are one and the same. Why do we have two images then?????? This is plain weird and either need a lot of (referenced) explanation, or one of the two must be removed. Arnoutf 21:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I removed the Cunnan reference for 2 reasons. First of all; it is a wiki, and wiki refering guidelines explicitly state that no reference to wiki articles is not a good reference.
Secondly the reference as used implies that the Cross of StJames is a cross fitch fleury. But all that the cunnan article says is "In heraldry, a cross fitchy is any cross whose lower point has been converted into a long point. The term "fitchy" derives from the French for fixed, and indicates a cross that would be stuck into the ground. The cross represented here is a cross fitchy flory, because the other three points are that of a cross flory. " (which is never doubted; the point under debate is whether cross st James is one).
I also have some serious doubts about the (scientific) quality of the Seiyaku reference. That site states the following "Cross Barby or Cross Barbee; but not a cross Barbie; you'll have to check a doll website for that story!". That makes me seriously doubt the quality of the whole site. But I left that one on for now. Arnoutf 08:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

What does the "Fitch" refer to? Chris 20:16, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I knew I should have learned to read. Chris 20:18, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to @Lindsey40186: for the work on the article. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Requests/Archives/2022#April–June. --evrik (talk) 22:42, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Source which might be useful towards making the article more comprehensive:

Dalton, Heather (2020). Santiago Matamoros|Mataindios. Routledge. ISBN 9780429949647. {{cite book}}: |work= ignored (help)
Tracchia, Gustavo (2007). "Flags, Medals, and Decorations". Raven: A Journal of Vexillology. 14: 85–104. doi:10.5840/raven2007144.
Rodríguez-Picavea, Enrique (2012). "The Military Orders in Medieval Iberia | Image, propaganda and legitimacy" (PDF). Mirator.
Staller, John E.; Stross, Brian (2013). Lightning in the Andes and Mesoamerica. Oup USA. ISBN 978-0-19-996775-9.
Gilmour, John (1995). "Reliving an imperialist past — The extreme right, Franco and the Catholic Monarchs". Tesserae. 1 (2): 201–221. doi:10.1080/13507499508569411.
Wagner-Pacifici, Robin (2021). "Portraits of courage: Caughtin the sovereign's gaze". European Journal of Cultural Studies. 24 (1): 107–122. doi:10.1177/1367549420985844. S2CID 232070184.
McCrudden, Christopher (2016). On Portraying Human Dignity. SSRN 2797601.
This is just a sampling of what can be found towards helping this article meet 1b, comprehensive and 1c, well researched; I suspect there is much more to be found, but stopped there.  Featured articles will not typically use encyclopedias as sources, even though those may squeak by at WP:GAN. SandyGeorgia (Talk)  13:21, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: Thanks. --evrik (talk) 17:12, 21 June 2023 (UTC)