# Talk:Granny (orca)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Granny (orca)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs) 12:01, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I propose to take on this review. I will make a detailed reading of the article in the next couple of days. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:01, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


### First reading
In general the article is well written and arranged, but a few points struck me as I read it:
The lead paragraph is quite short yet contains seven citations. In general, the lead is meant to be a summary of the rest of the article and shouldn't contain any material not mentioned in the body of the text, so the citations should be in the main article, not the lead. See MOS Lead
The second paragraph is given the section heading "Description" but this does not describe most of its contents.
You could slightly expand the part about recognition of individual animals as readers may be unfamiliar with this concept.
"scientists believed him to be Granny's last offspring, her own age was estimated at about 60." - Do you mean "most recent offspring" or last offspring because the whale is now too old to reproduce?
"They have completed a journey as far as 800 miles in a week." - Perhaps "travelled" would be better here. This statement needs a citation.
"According to researchers, Granny also has multiple grandchildren and great-grandchildren travelling in the pod with her." - Citation needed here too.
Who is Piddock and why does what he say deserve attention?
The Piddock quote needs a citation.
"Additionally, Granny and her family are at risk from declining West Coast salmon populations." - Another sentence that needs a citation.
That's all for the time being. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:35, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Cwmhiraeth Thanks for the review, sorry I didn't see it until you pinged me. I will go through it more thoroughly, and see what I can clean up. Gaijin42 (talk) 12:18, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
No action has been taken on any of the points I raised above. However I believe that the GA criteria are broadly met by this article and some of the points I raised are trivial. So I have improved the referencing by adding citations for several statements and I now believe the article reaches the GA criteria. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:23, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Cwmhiraeth Thanks. I apologize for not taking any action on your review, I have not been as active in wikipedia for the past few weeks, and your review had slipped my mind. I appreciate you looping back and fixing some of the elements yourself. Gaijin42 (talk) 16:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

There are a couple of issues here, first is the claim by this guy Piddock that pictures exist from the late 30s. Has anyone seen these pictures? Or are we just trusting the claims of a guy who sells his whale watching tours? Secondly the nature of these estimates is just that. We dont know the exact ages of these animals they are based upon extrapolation and assumptions which could be wrong. What if the male were not her offspring? The article takes a lot of things on faith and presents it as fact. Batvette (talk) 23:09, 30 September 2015 (UTC) Batvette (talk) 23:09, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

According to several new sources Granny is considered deceased. I have added this at the end of the intro paragraph with some reference links  
I am unsure of best practices at this point. I just thought to update to the most recent available news. Bpendragon (talk) 01:27, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

{{ITN note|RD: Granny (orca)|date=3 January 2017}}
Dragons flight (talk) 11:13, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

@Dragons flight: thanks for the nom. Glad it was posted. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:30, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

What does "105±12 years old" mean? I can't be the only one to find this confusing.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:29, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

It means plus or minus twelve years ( so between 93 and 117 years old). It's a common way of expressing mathematical margins of error - I'll try and clarify this in the article ASAP. JezGrove (talk) 20:33, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

J2's age is a matter of some dispute in the scientific community, so I tried to better reflect that in the article. There are claims of a 1930s photograph of J2 in a couple news articles, but the reference appears to be circular; I cannot find the original source of the 1930s photograph, nor can I find the photograph itself; it appears to be something picked up from other secondary sources. Titanium Dragon (talk) 06:11, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chimo (killer whale) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 22:01, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

That one has now been closed and the summary points back here for the result. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:03, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Ah yes, OK, thanks. .. "see X" where X is another closed one saying "See Y", where Y is ...... um possibly, (I think). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:19, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of captive orcas which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.  —RMCD bot 15:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

This quote is based on maximum estimates of 75 years for males and 80 years for females. These however do not represent average life expectancy. I generally tend to question using activist organisations, like the Orca Network, as sources instead of actual studies. 79.167.158.42 (talk) 07:43, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion of age in the article is a little confused and doesn't closely track the only source [1] (Podt) that appears to discuss it.  The scholarly source [2] argues that the 1911 estimate is too early but doesn't give any explicit counter estimate that I can see.  In particular the 65–80 range apparently taken from Podt would seem to indicate a DOB of c.1935-1951 not "c.1950's".  Podt claims the 65–80 range is based on a published report of a scientific biopsy there is no inline citation.  Could it be "Adaptive prolonged postreproductive life span in killer whales – E.A. Foster, D.W. Franks, S. Mazzi, S.K. Darden, K.C. Balcomb, J.K.B. Ford, D.P. Croft – Science Vol 337, 2012"?  Podt later suggests that a date as late as c.1961 is possible, though in my opinion, that would conflict with the evidence of her capture and release in 1967.  Is there a good/recent academic citation for that event?  I.e. that Granny was with the group that was captured and was released due to her age/size and not that she was simply not with the group at that time.  My personal analysis of the evidence is that she may well have been born in the early 1930's or before based on the fact that she had no documented calves in 1971 or later, but that's just WP:OR.  In any event disputed facts should be cited to the best possible sources which in this case are academic articles and not popular science rewrites of Orca Network press releases.  
I will go ahead and make a couple of edits to bring the article closer to what Podt specifically says, but remain hopeful that additional and better sources may be found.  Eluchil404 (talk) 03:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)