# Talk:Jack Newkirk

G'day, great work on this so far. I have assessed it as a Start class article in the Military history project's assessment scale; however, I think it would be very close to achieving a higher rating. If the lead could be expanded a bit, and some of the other details about Newkirk's family (specifically his wife), and awards could be worked into the body of the article, and the "citation needed" tags replaced with refs, I believe it would warrant a B-class rating. When/if you would like a second assessment opinion, please list the article at WP:MHA. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:56, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

@AustralianRupert: Hi there, am I heading in the right direction with  this? --Bye for now  (PTT) 20:29, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
G'day, yes I think its getting there. Thanks for your efforts. IMO, if you can cite or remove the awards of the Distinguished Service Order and Order of the Cloud and Banner, and expand the lead by a couple more sentences, I believe it would be B-class. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 11:33, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
In for assessment, thanks for the assistance --Bye for now  (PTT) 15:33, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
G'day, again, I believe that it meets the B-class criteria now, but as I've now done a bit of work on it I will let someone who is more objective take a look and do the assessment. Great work, by the way. I think you could even consider nominating it for Good Article status, if you are keen. I have a couple of quick suggestions: the Google Book link for the Bergin ref seems to go to a different book (Texas Aggies). Also, some of the websites use a different presentation. For instance some use "surname, first name" while others use "first name surname" for the authors. I suggest making this consistent (last name, first name seems more common with how you present the books etc). Anyway, thanks for your efforts and good luck with taking this article further. If you have any questions about the GAN process, please let me know. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 19:39, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
Hi Rupert,  first of all many thanks for tidying up.  I've had a look at the GAN info and it seems to be worth a try. Even if it doesn't make it, the process should bring in some advice for improvement.  I actually have quite a bit more material on the subject,  should it be called for. Cheers, --Bye for now  (PTT) 10:46, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
No worries at all, good luck. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:51, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

In the summer of 1938, after initial disqualification due to childhood mastoiditis, Newkirk was granted a medical waiver and joined the U.S. Navy with the intent of becoming a pilot.
In May 1941, Newkirk was approached by a representative of Claire L. Chennault, a retired U.S. Army Air Corps officer who had been working in China as an aviation advisor to Chinese General Chiang Kai-shek since the early days of the Sino-Japanese War.
Chennault offered Newkirk a dramatic increase in pay with no loss of rank should he agree to temporarily resign from the U.S. Navy and join the American Volunteer Group.
| awards        =

Distinguished Service Order
This is mentioned HERE and that he was decorated by the Brtiish in THIS BOOK.  Finally,  THIS BOOK confirms it so I think it can now go in the article! - Though this source was for a DFC rather than DSO  @Peacemaker67: please note, --Bye for now  (PTT) 13:13, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Order of the Cloud and Banner
It appears that although he would have been eligible for the Order of the Cloud and Banner he didn't actually receive it because  he was one of those who "Died while with the A.V.G. and were not awarded their medals." [1]
note: although the above is quite possibly true,  I have not yet found a source to verify it, --Bye for now  (PTT) 17:28, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Scarsdale+Jack%22+Newkirk&btnG=Search+Books&tbm=bks&tbo=1
http://www.google.com/search?q=Loiwing,+Yunnan,+china&client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&oq=&gs_l=  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bye for now (talk • contribs) 15:22, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

G'day, I suggest this article should be moved to Jack Newkirk. There is nothing at that title, and it is the minimum title that covers this chap. "Scarsdale Jack" is obvious a nickname, and should be in the first line of the lead, but it is unnecessary in the title, as we don't need to disambiguate him from any other Jack Newkirk (at this stage at least). Regards, Peacemaker67  (crack... thump) 11:38, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Seems reasonable.  To be honest, I never gave any thought to the title as I didn't start it and it already had a title when I rescued it from AfD. When the GAR is done, I will move it.  Cheers, --Bye for now  (PTT) 13:35, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
Article moved to Jack Newkirk --Bye for now  (PTT) 09:13, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:John V. "Scarsdale Jack" Newkirk/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 11:32, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

The only real hurdle left to overcome appears to be whether or not "the Bergin ebook" can be used.  If not,  then the following will need to be checked to see which elements came from Bergin and the content either re-sourced, re-edited or deleted:

Newkirk was born in New York City on 15 October 1913. One year later his family moved to Scarsdale, New York where his father, Louis Hasbrouck Newkirk, worked as an attorney. Newkirk was known within the extended family as "Scarsdale Jack," to distinguish him from a younger cousin with the same name. At age ten, Newkirk was awarded a vocal scholarship to the Cathedral of St. John the Divine where he sang in the boys choir and attended the Cathedral School until age 14. Thereafter, Newkirk attended Scarsdale High School from which he graduated in 1932. During this time he was also active in the Boy Scouts of America and received his Eagle Scout medal from Admiral Richard E. Byrd at a ceremony in White Plains, NY. In the fall of 1932, Newkirk entered Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York to study aeronautical engineering. However, he was unable to afford tuition during the height of the Great Depression and dropped out after only one year. Newkirk subsequently worked odd jobs in New York City and served a brief stint in the New York National Guard until the fall of 1937, when he returned to Rensselaer to continue his studies.
Newkirk learned to fly whilst a student at Rennselaer, eventually accumulating two years of study which gave him the qualifications to become a cadet aviator in the US Navy. He joined the Navy in 1938 and after initial screening at Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, he was transferred to Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida where his classmates included David Lee "Tex" Hill and Bert Christman. Newkirk earned his wings in 1939 and was assigned to the USS Yorktown at Naval Station Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, where he remained on active duty until the summer of 1941.
Although naval aviators were, at that time, prohibited from marriage within two years of getting their wings, having left the navy, the marriage could go ahead. John and Jane were married on 5 July 1941 at the First Presbyterian Church of Houston, Texas. After a two day honeymoon in a Houston hotel, they flew to San Francisco to meet up with other AVG recruits and their wives. They parted company on 10 July 1942 at the docks, where Newkirk boarded the M.V. Jagersfontein, with some of the AVG recruits on their way to Singapore, whilst Janie stayed in Los Angeles.
On the morning of 3 January 1942, Newkirk led Christman, Hill, and Jim Howard across Burma's Dawna Mountain Range in an attack against the Japanese-held Tak airfield  near Raheng, Thailand. Christman's aircraft developed engine trouble, forcing him to return to base and leave Newkirk without a wingman. Upon arrival at the Raheng Aerodrome, the three pilots observed numerous Japanese aircraft parked by the runway but did not immediately notice the Japanese Ki-27 "Nate" fighters already in the air. Howard began to strafe the airfield, apparently unaware that an enemy aircraft was on his tail. Hill shot down the Nate pursuing Howard, then took on an additional one. Newkirk, who had engaged and destroyed one airborne Nate by then, was also credited with the third that Hill had also been engaging. Howard destroyed four Nates on the ground. With multiple enemy aircraft destroyed and the Raheng airfield in flames, Newkirk, Howard, and Hill all returned safely to base.
Newkirk left Rangoon on 10 February but, to get to the AVG base in Kunming, he had to go via India.
The AVG continued some of its operations from Magwe, which was heavily bombed by the Japanese. Chennault ordered retaliatory raids against Chiang Mai and Lampang on 23 March 1942. Because these bases were out of range of the P-40s, from their main base at Kunming, it was decided to go via Loi Wing (Leiyun), in China, then launch the raid from the RAF airstrip at Nam Sang, Burma.
On 24 March 1942, the aircraft took off in darkness from Nam Sang and by 06:30 all were en route to Chiang Mai. Newkirk's part of the mission was to lead his flight past Chiang Mai to Lampang and, if no targets could be found there, return to help with the main raid on Chiang Mai. Arriving ahead of the main force over Chiain Mai, Newkirk's flight of four aircraft strafed the main railway depot in passing and then continued towards Lampang, approximately 45 miles (72 km) to the southeast.
Newkirk's aircraft crashed in a ball of flame and he was killed instantly close to Lamphun. It was believed at the time that Newkirk's aircraft was hit by ground fire. Later investigations, including discussions with eyewitnesses, raised the possibility that Newkirk may have inadvertently hit a tree. His body was thrown clear of the wreckage and landed in a paddy field. He was buried locally by the Japanese.
Quite a to-do list --Bye for now  (PTT) 19:25, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

See my comments on Bergin above. He may not get over the line at Milhist ACR, but he's adequate for our purposes here. Well done on the improvements that have been made to this article. Not only has it been saved from AfD, but it is now GA! Regards, Peacemaker67  (crack... thump) 02:12, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
OK, thanks for your guidance and patience, Have done the Move to Jack Newkirk --Bye for now  (PTT) 09:18, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Personally,  I needed a map to get my head round this and the only way I could find to generate one was by putting in coordinates.  Unfortunately,  this makes it too cluttered to be a Good Article so I've put the info here as it may help someone in the future. Maybe make a map one day --Bye for now  (PTT) 13:52, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Toungoo (19.0312°N 96.4005°E﻿ / 19.0312; 96.4005﻿ (Toungoo))
Mingaladon Airport (16.9096°N 96.1350°E﻿ / 16.9096; 96.1350﻿ (Mingaladon Airport))
Kunming (25.1037°N 102.9428°E﻿ / 25.1037; 102.9428﻿ (Kunming))
Raheng, Thailand,(16.89599°N 99.25349°E﻿ / 16.89599; 99.25349﻿ (Raheng/Tak airfield))
Magwe (20.1541°N 94.9689°E﻿ / 20.1541; 94.9689﻿ (Magwe airfield))
Chiang Mai (18.7699°N 98.9630°E﻿ / 18.7699; 98.9630﻿ (Chiang Mai airfield))
Lampang (18.2697°N 99.5043°E﻿ / 18.2697; 99.5043﻿ (Lampang airfield))
Loi Wing (Leiyun)  (23.8887°N 97.6374°E﻿ / 23.8887; 97.6374﻿ (Loi Wing (Leiyun) airstrip))
Nam Sang, Burma (20.8926°N 97.7371°E﻿ / 20.8926; 97.7371﻿ (Nam Sang airstrip))
Lamphun (18.54942°N 99.01250°E﻿ / 18.54942; 99.01250﻿ (Lamphun airfield))

findagrave has no obvious affiliations or axes to grind. In this article it is used simply to verify a claim by Jack Eisner on warbirdforum.com (see below) that Newkirk was buried in Scarsdale, NY. I believe that it is a reliable additional source for where he is buried. EDIT: replace findagrave source with a New York Times one
the two warbirdforum.com sources are to articles written by Daniel Ford.[2] and [3] - see Dan Ford Books or Daniel Ford. Good enough for me.
Newkirk, Janet (28 April 1942) "The Life of Jack Newkirk – Known as "Scarsdale Jack"", . This is something I inherited when I rescued the article from AfD. I just assumed good faith from the originator but managed check that such an article, written by his sister shortly after his death,  did exist.[4] Copyright 28 April 1942; AA 399590 16360.  It would need someone with access to a good US public library to verify this.  Maybe some day somebody will. EDIT: this source has been removed from the article - there are other sources for this info anyway. --Bye for now  (PTT) 09:41, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
the Bergin ebook: is Bob Bergin[5][6] the problem or the fact that it's an eBook?
cv6.org: something else I inherited and only used to establish the date for the Marshall Islands Raid.  Never occurred that the date would be questioned. I have replaced it with a source from The Times.
politicalgraveyard.com: only used as independent confirmation that Newkirk's widow married Charles Dudley Withers (because the info came from Newkirk's cousin's son and so I felt it needed a second source).
flyingtigersavg site is used for "the Walt Disney organization in Hollywood designed our insignia consisting of a winged tiger flying through a large V for victory." and "Their offer was a one-year contract with CAMCO".  Both of these statements are attributed to Claire L. Chennault in his book Way of a Fighter ($200ish Out of Print--Limited Availability on Amazon ISBN-13: 978-0685411063). Can we not take their word for these fairly uncontroversial claims?
etc: any particular ceteras in mind?
--Bye for now  (PTT) 20:46, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

G'day, the issue, first and foremost, is whether a source meets the criteria of reliability. Essentially, whether the work itself, its creator and its publisher are "reliable".  Reliability does take into account context, ie using findagrave for the location of a grave is a relatively minor matter in the context of the whole article (unless of course, it is wrong). The sources should be secondary, and if primary sources (such as his sister) are used, they should only be used with extreme caution and no interpretation can be used. Sources dedicated to the memory of an event or organisation (such as fan sites) are usually very questionable, unless the author of a particular entry is reliable themselves. E-books are fine, as long as the author and publishing house are reliable. Peacemaker67  (crack... thump) 07:14, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Jack Newkirk. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121005113039/http://cbi-theater-1.home.comcast.net/~cbi-theater-1/flyingtigers/flying_tigers.html to http://cbi-theater-1.home.comcast.net/~cbi-theater-1/flyingtigers/flying_tigers.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:49, 19 November 2017 (UTC)