# Talk:Divine (performer)

Why the repeated attempts to put Divine in Category:Serbian LGBT people? Don't sources say that Divine was American? bobrayner (talk) 17:44, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

The person who was adding it was attempting to repurpose the category as being for all LGBT people who have Serbian ethnicity at all, regardless of their actual nationality. That isn't the way LGBT people are actually categorized on Wikipedia, so you were correct in flagging it as improper, but that's where it was coming from. Bearcat (talk) 18:45, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

The line I refer to deleting from the Death Section goes as follows:
"Divine was told by his doctor, that he wasn't to sleep on his back; he did this anyway, ignoring the physician's advice. [118]
My objection to this is quite straight forward; it does not matter what the doctor may or may not have with the patient, Period. I this context, the real point is that the sentence makes it appear as though the person to whom you are referring had Intentionally brought this Death upon themselves by Ignoring their doctors advice. However, if you understood the nature of people during their sleeping cycles and habits, many do tend to move around and do have a tendency to start out on their sides with pillows in place but during the night, those pillows, or blankets holding them in that position get moved and they often times do end up on their backs.
These are Not in defiance of their Physicians Orders or prescribed recommendations; ending up on ones back often times happens... I know because I also have sleep apnea and it has happened with me, too. 
I ask that, in the Respected Memory of Harris Glenn Milstead, you kindly remove that line. Most sincerely and humbly, Tom Osborne. thomrosborne@aim.com  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomrosborne (talk • contribs) 08:50, 6 November 2015 (UTC) 

Looking in to comment, I see that a number of poorly sourced and poorly made additions had been made to the "Death" section since the article achieved GA status. I have removed those additions, which include the sentence to which you objected. Midnightblueowl (talk) 18:03, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, half of us will die due to blitheness toward sleep habits.  Let she who hasn't had an overnight test for apnea cast the first stone.  GenacGenac (talk) 16:22, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Why male pronouns?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MidnightCharm (talk • contribs) 15:25, 19 April 2018 (UTC) 

@MidnightCharm:: Because Divine was a man. Both in the biological sense and in the gendered sense. He always identified as a man. He worked as a drag queen, and played female roles in films, but never identified as a woman, and indeed in later life was keen to escape the type-casting he faced by trying to play more and more male roles. Had he lived longer he may even have dropped the drag act altogether. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:48, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
I do have to point out that Thomas Neuworth refers to his drag persona as Conchita Wurst with female pronouns. I'm curious if there are any sources to confirm what pronouns Milstead used when speaking about Divine.--GouramiWatcherTalk 20:40, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
He used male pronouns.  Anyone who ever knew him used male pronouns in reference to Glenn [1].  He was a man.  Why in the world wouldn't he use male pronouns. GenacGenac (talk) 16:22, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Friends of Divine use both he and she pronouns and generally use the name "Divine" according to I Am Divine [2]73.34.62.123 (talk) 00:02, 25 August 2020 (UTC)Siglark
Divine always referred to himself as male. He was a character actor. I administer Divine’s estate and it’s always “he” when referring to Divine. Divine Official (talk) 20:32, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

That said, isn't it usual WP style—and that of most reference works—to continue referring to bio subjects by legal surname, rather than stage name? (He didn't actually change his name to Divine, did he?) I think the philosophy is that, although the article describes the subject's work and other life events, it's intrinsically about the person behind those things. (I haven't presumed to change the whole article this way, but recommend it.) AndyFielding (talk) 13:08, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Article presently stated: "...in 1978, Divine attended as the guest of honour at the seventh annual Alternative Miss World pageant, a mock event founded by Logan in 1972 in which drag queens – including men, women and children – competed for the prize." 
The use of "annual" implies Alternative Miss World happens at intervals of one year. According to the official website [3] and other sources, it is less frequent than that, and 1978 was fourth (not the seventh).
The official website does not say "guest of honour" for Divine but lists Divine as one of two hosts, and one of five "in attendance", but I suppose Divine could have had the title guest of honour as well. I cannot check the source. 
From various sources, I do not think Logan, or various recent (2014 - 2018) commentators think of the event as "mock" or the competitors as "drag queens", but maybe they/some did in 1978. Again I have not been able to check the source(s).
I have put in a request for the creation of an article for Alternative Miss World [4] (see section 6.5.2 Other, Non-people) and that has links to various sources. 
For the moment I have changed "seventh annual" to "fourth", and put scare quotes around "mock" and "drag queens".
Maybe in the future, if/when there is an Alternative Miss World article, the information about that event will not need to be in the Divine article.
FrankSier (talk) 13:31, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

There isn’t yet a page for “Drag performers from Maryland,” but obviously Divine would qualify to start the category. It’s one of the few US states that doesn’t have anyone listed. I would add the category myself, but I’m not sure I know how to do it and would prefer not to screw it up. (However, if someone else isn’t able to do it relatively quickly, I’ll learn how.) Perennialpoet (talk) 20:21, 6 March 2025 (UTC)