# Talk:Neuromancer

Um, I think there are plenty of folks who see the relationship between Neuromancer's style and Chandler.  Ten seconds of googling finds:

"Gibson is not just mildly romantic: he is deeply so, as affirmed by the continuing homage his earlier work paid to the detective fiction of Raymond Chandler " [1]
"Gibson’s novel has much more immediate, far more hip sources, namely, the hardboiled novels of Raymond Chandler" [2] (reviewing All Tomorrow's Parties)
"Gibson is a great admirer of Dashiel Hammett, though not of Raymond Chandler. The doomed love affair and mystery quest arc of the plot make clear that the novel is just as much "new-romancer" ... as "neuro-mancer"." [3]
So I think this amply supports the redacted sentence's assertion "Its is reminiscent of a 1930's noir novel in the style of Raymond Chandler, and its title might be looked upon as a pun on new romancer.".  Once could argue that the sentence could say Hammett instead of Chandler, but perhaps it should say "style of Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett" or perhaps "in the dark, gritty style of Raymond Chandler and Dashiel Hammett.".  Comments? -- Finlay McWalter 22:14, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I agree on the veracity of your sources. But have you really read any part of Neuromancer and thought that sounds like Hammett? A use of a sparse 'angular' style doesn't make it a homage, there is no use of the complex plotting, first person styles and other marks of classic noir. And I must say to read "new-romancer" out of Neuromancer is just perverse - what kind of pun is that? You can draw on much clearer and more relevant source words in the title. TwoOneTwo 12:38, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)
"The sky was the colour of a television tuned to a dead channel".  Ugh, that's sub-chandler - it sounds like Mikey Spillaine :) -- Finlay McWalter 12:51, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)
"there is no use of the complex plotting, first person styles and other marks of classic noir."  I fear this is largely because Gibson is crap at plot and worse at character.  The "find the Cornell box" thing is a lot like The Maltese Falcon (eccentric millionaire tasks down-at-heel detective to find apparently valueless object, but has sinister ulterior motives.  Meanwhile, shady lady is both friend and enemy.). -- Finlay McWalter 13:05, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)
You seem to have defeated your own argument! ;) It is certainly not a clear transference and, IMHO, including this tenuous relationship is not useful. And I shudder at that "new-romancer" thing, if you must restore the sentence, please don't include that! TwoOneTwo 00:16, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)
The "new romancer" thing comes from an essay by Norman Spinrad and should be included in the article: he proposed that cyberpunk writers be referred to as "new romancers" based on this book and the romantic style of much of the writing -- Gibson's in particular. I have always thought the connection between Gibson and the noir style of Chandler and Hammett was very clear, but I suppose it's a matter of perspective.--66.222.61.198 (talk) 18:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
While Gibson's on record preferring Hammett over Chandler (repeatedly, looks like), Neuromancer's closing line bears a striking (if partial) resemblance to the last like of Chandler's The Big Sleep.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lefteleven (talk • contribs) 08:17, 25 March 2018 (UTC) 

There was a comic adaptation published by Eclipse, shouldn't it be included in Adaptations? Tried to do so, but my contribution was deleted.

Wasn't there a section devoted to music that had been inspired by Neuromancer?  I could've seen it in another article I suppose.  -fs

The main page now meentions an episode of "the American version of Beyond 2000" that seems to have some sort of interview about an second cancelled remake of the Neuromancer game. Explanations as to the details or name of the episode, or to the show itself if it has a different name, or most especially to where this can be seen, would be a great contribution. As it is, most webpages that seem to indicate that they sell copies of the show, do not do so.

Neuromancer is a 1994 American hand drawn animated Science fiction film directed by Richard Rich written by Brad Bird Chuck Russell Joseph Kahn and John Milius produced by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Animation, Hyperion Pictures and Creat Animation animated by Threshold Entertainment Fox Animation Studios Sony Pictures Imageworks and Dygra Films. Released by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Warner Bros Family Entertainment 92.40.212.222 (talk) 18:13, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

No it's not.  But certainly provide a source if you have one. Dan Bloch (talk) 18:22, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi folks. I've started working on this article as a project, similar to the work I previously did on Dracula. I have revised the article structure and content substantially and introduced a new referencing scheme. Where possible, I have upgraded the quality of referencing, marked where alternative sources need to be identified, and removed poorly sourced information. 
If you notice any obvious issues, please do fix—for example, my US English may not be consistent where American should be used here. For anything more complicated please chat to me first; work on the article is not yet complete. 03:07, 14 January 2025 (UTC) — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 03:07, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

I should have probably included my future plans involve...
Continuing work on Reception and Impact.
Adding 2 sections: "Context and interpretation" (subheadings: "Political", "Social", "Postmodern") and "Genre".
Rewriting Character to include professional criticism and analysis.
Any assistance finding more related images would be appreciated. Thank you. 03:14, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
Danbloch, the "triple crown" is mentioned frequently across scholarly criticism of Neuromancer. I would not consider this "marketing", because it is not marketing. I will include references to this effect in the reception section but do not feel strongly about its inclusion in the lead. Regarding its inclusion in "Wikipedia's voice", it was in quotation marks because it the term is not mine or Wikipedia', with multiple possible sources. ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 19:14, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply.  I would direct your attention to Hugo- and Nebula-award winner and former Philip K. Dick judge Robert J. Sawyer, who writes in his blog:
It is an honour and a privilege to be a Dick nominee, but the Dick is not, and was never intended to be, what the Hugo and the Nebulas are: an award for the best science fiction or fantasy novel of the year.
It’s only in the marketing of NEUROMANCER that the Dick/Hugo/Nebula is ever referred to as “science fiction’s Triple Crown.” It CAN’T be, because many/most of the SF books published in a given year are ineligible for the Dick (by virtue of not being paperback originals).[4]
The use of quotes in the Neuromancer article implies that "triple crown" is a common usage which Wikipedia is informing the reader of, and this isn't true.
Having said that, leaving it out of the lead would be a reasonable compromise. Dan Bloch (talk) 20:03, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
@Danbloch: Thank you for that context! Given the source of the quote, sounds reasonable to include that context; I've added it as an EFN. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 20:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
Any benefit of including the sentence about Autodesk ("Gibson sent a cease-and-desist letter to Autodesk co-founder John Walker after he launched a project called Cyberspace, saying they had missed 'several layers of irony'.") is outweighed by the facts that, first, it isn't about Neuromancer's impact, so it's off-topic for this section, and second, it isn't related to the paragraph it's in (and looks bad as a single-sentence paragraph).  Also the "several layers of irony" quote doesn't convey any meaning to readers. Dan Bloch (talk) 21:18, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
@Danbloch: I don't really understand this one. The part in question is about Neuromancer influencing real-life technology development. It inspired a project by a major company, and Gibson's ownership over the concept allowed him to send a legal shutdown notice. The "several layers of irony" part alludes to themes of corporate control in the narrative, which will be built upon later. I disagree with your rationale for removing it, and will restore it, but I am open to further discussion. Regarding the single-sentence part, this article is going to be in constant flux over the next few weeks as I advance towards GA promotion. Do not expect everything to look immediately. At least, I hope you will agree the article has improved substantially over the shape it had last week. ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 22:55, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I have added the information back in, somewhat stripped down, with some new accompanying information to bulk up the section. I will highlight that it was not in a single-sentence paragraph, as you said; it was the third sentence of a paragraph. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 23:44, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Neuromancer didn't inspire the project, it was used as the name of a demo of a project (which AFAICT never went to market). But this aside, the article flow is okay now, which was all I cared about.
And for the record, I wasn't saying it was a single-sentence paragraph, I was saying it would look bad if it were split out of its existing paragraph.  But I can see how this could have been misinterpreted. Dan Bloch (talk) 00:28, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
You'll be happy to know that I'm done for now.  I'll take another look in a week or two. Dan Bloch (talk) 00:38, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
@Danbloch: Editing is a pretty solitary experience so I am genuinely happy to get input. I struggle to convey tone at times so please don't take it poorly. Thank you for your feedback. — ImaginesTigers (talk∙contribs) 00:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

Hello again.  Another issue.  I strongly disagree with the inclusion of the Delany quote.  It's 230 words long, longer than some articles, and it's just inserted with no explanation, for a reader to read and draw his own conclusions.  This means it's arguably a WP:COPYVIO (per WP:COPYPASTE#What about quotes?: the quotation must not be replaceable with free text (including text that the editor writes)).  Here there's no analysis except that Delany "criticized the portrayal, highlighting their 'shrunken hearts' and brittle bones", which ignores the other 220 words and isn't even accurate--the shrunken hearts and brittle bones aren't highlighted, they're just one of about ten sentences in the quote.  Delany's views should be excerpted and paraphrased if they're worth including. Dan Bloch (talk) 21:57, 31 January 2025 (UTC)