# Talk:Gunfighter

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"The presence of guns is not always necessary for this kind of character in a western.  For example, in the television series Kung Fu, Kwai Chang Caine is depicted much like a gunslinger, but is a wandering Shaolin monk who instead relies on his mastery of martial arts when called for."
True but guns were almost always present, because the men that Kwai Chang Caine fought had guns on camera in the fight scenes.  GT

The following claims that "gunslinger" is a recent addition to the language and does not occur before 1928. It's a made-up term from Western pulp fiction. That has always been my understanding as well. It's use in the Old West would have been anachronism. Nobody in the 19th century ever said "gunslinger". It would have been "gunman" or "gunfighter." Modern attempts to classify 19th century people into "gunslingers" vs. "gunfighters" (as on this webpage) are especially nonsensical.
http://www.geocities.com/faskew/Colonial/Glossary/West.htm
This modern origin of this term, if confirmed, should be front and center in the "gunslinger" Wiki page!! In fact, I would argue that "gunslinger" should redirect to "gunfighter", along with explanation for the re-direct.
Anybody have a definitive "first use" of this slang term, ala the Oxford English Dictionary?
Sbharris 04:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Before you go deleting anything take a look at http://www.answers.com/gunslinger] GT

This has nothing to do with the historical origins of the term as far as I can see. Historical accounts use a number of terms for what we now call a gunfight or gunslinger, but neither of those terms. Shootist was common, as was pistolero. There were also a number of more local terms that meant the same thing (Border Ruffians were localized to Missouri and Kansas, for example). The term "Boweries" was also common, although that referred more to brawlers and came from the Bowery district in New York City.Intothatdarkness (talk) 22:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

This section seems to be about the term as used in Westerns, but there are some references to historical figures, so I'm not sure exactly what is intended.  In any case, some sort of revision is needed to reflect the fact that "gunslinger" is not a historically accurate Old West term.  John M Baker 00:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. "Gunslinger" seems to mean "hired gun", and could range from a hitman, to a spy, assassin, etc. Colonel Marksman 01:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

1. It seems like only Roland should be listed when it comes to The Dark Tower series.
2. Why, in God's name, is Jango Fett on there?
Dancemotron (talk) 05:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
The definition limits gunfighters/gunslingers to the American Old West (appropriately, I think, otherwise it would include anyone who ever used a gun for any reason - a definition so broad as to lose any meaning).  And yet the list of gunfighters in fiction is filled with characters from sci-fi, fantasy, manga, etc.  The list looks ridiculous and should be edited.PatrickWB (talk) 21:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I don't think I should've been the first to chalk up Balthier's name in the popcult section. Yeah, I know nobody used guns in that game, but it is his default weapon, and I think he certainly fills out the gunslinger role with his personality, even if you wind up giving him a katana or dagger like everyone else.Daganolson (talk) 23:31, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

See the above comment. This list deals with American Old West gunfighters. Final Fantasy games aren't Old West. I'm pulling the name out until there's more discussion.Intothatdarkness (talk) 13:52, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Given the article's own concession that the word "gunslinger" is not authentic, should it be the title? Shouldn't it instead be "Gunfighter," since "shootist" and "pistoleer"/"pistolero" are not what somebody would enter into the search engine looking for an article on this subject? Ted Watson (talk) 22:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I'm going to move it per SILENCE. ImpIn | (t - c) 01:57, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't the outlaw Jesse James listed as one of the famous gunmen/gunfighters? Couldn't find his name in the article.--80.133.246.39 (talk) 11:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The Fact versus fiction section of the article is full of speculation as fact. It reads as though the author is trying to debunk the myth of the gunman as hero. Maybe they were all cowards. Perhaps they were all reckless fools who got lucky. Whatever the truth is, this section does not give me confidence that the author cares about evidence to back up his take on the subject.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 (talk) 13:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC) 
The Fact versus fiction reads almost identically to the last few paragraphs of the section immediately preceding it.

The current lede says that a "Gunfighter, also gunslinger, is a 20th century name, used in cinema or literature, referring to men in the American Old West who had gained a reputation as being dangerous with a gun".
Is "dangerous" necessarily the best word to use here?  Someone who had a tendancy to inadvertantly pull the trigger whenever they handled a firearm, or to shoot in the air when drunk or happy would legitimately be described as "dangerous with a gun", but isn't necessarily a gunfigher.
I'm not sure what would be a better alternative, though (without also being tautological: "A gun fighter is someone who fights with a gun").  Maybe I'm just being pedantic... Wardog (talk) 18:35, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

The term "dangerous with a gun" crops up in period literature, and carried with it the idea that such an individual was one you didn't want to provoke.Intothatdarkness (talk) 15:19, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Gunfighter is the chosen term for the article, but gunslinger is used as the primary reference in the first sections. I have no objection to it being used when we're specifically referring to it as another name for a gunfighter, or in describing its origin. However, for the rest of the article, gunfighter should be used, as it is the chosen term of the article. Thoughts?Jbower47 (talk) 19:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

in the popular culture page should the movie Street kings be added? because Keanu reaves character is refered to as the "last of the ghetto gunfighters" and refers to himself and other cops who bend the rules and kill criminals as gunfighters.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.157.59 (talk) 01:28, 14 November 2010 (UTC) 

There are lists of gunfighters, outlaws, outlaw gangs, here, here, here, and here. The terms "outlaw" and "gunfighter" are often used interchangeably. In some instances individuals like William Brocius, Jesse James, and Jim Miller are listed as both gunfighters and outlaws. The article Gunfighter talks about both. I don't think the distinction between gunfighters and outlaws is useful. A gunfighter is defined as a gunslinger, is a 20th century name, used in cinema or literature, referring to men in the American Old West who had gained a reputation as being dangerous with a gun criminal: someone who has committed a crime or has been legally convicted of a crime. A gunfighter is defined as lawless: disobedient to or defiant of law, and an outlaw is a bandit is a person living the lifestyle of outlawry.
Unless someone has some serious considerations, in a week or so I am going to consolidate these as List of Old West outlaws and gunfighters. I think creating a list of famous Old West gunfights and a list of Old West gangs is not controversial and will create those in the next couple of days. — btphelps (talk) (contribs) 04:12, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd almost rather see it go as a "List of Old West Gunfighters", as there was often a significant amount of fuzziness with some of these individuals when it came to which side of the law they were on at any given time. If we go back to the period use of the term (as defined by Rosa, among others), anyone who was good with a gun would be lumped into this category without any distinction between outlaws and lawmen (for the most part). Concur that lists of gangs and gunfights isn't controversial, though.Intothatdarkness (talk) 15:17, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Here is the consolidated List of Old West gunfighters. — btphelps (talk) (contribs) 11:44, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Looks good to me!Intothatdarkness (talk) 14:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Would this be an appropriate category for people who are shown using a gun frequently but aren't some kind of professional? I was thinking anyone in a post apocalyptic movie with a gun, or characters from anime like Trigun. CensoredScribe (talk) 00:22, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Seems kinda fuzzy to me. Intothatdarkness 18:15, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Gunfighter/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Bulls123 (talk · contribs) 15:50, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Being a western fan myself, I'll be tackling this one. Bulls123 (talk) 15:50, 27 September 2014 (UTC)


### Checklist
Done! Although there were links that has no author or dates written on them, some references were fixed and I added some along the way. "Outlaw or lawman" and the "Living on reputation" has their references already fleshed out. I fixed some grammars along the way. Godzilladude123 (talk) 12:19, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

The article seems to have deteriorated a bit since this review. Intothatdarkness 11:26, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

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