# Talk:Michael Schumacher

Just wondering why Michael's nationality is omitted from his infobox? Every other driver has their nationality and flag listed as standard, the precedent is clear. Had added it but since been removed. Mb2437 (talk) 19:55, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi all, I've had a go at re-writing the lead to have a more comprehensive career summary than what is present. Bringing this to the talk page first as this is a WP:GA of top-importance to WP:F1. All details from its previous iteration remain besides the brother trivia; the opening paragraph is unchanged and the word count has increased from 451 to 562, which is justified by the longevity and success of his career (as well as the current version reducing his five consecutive titles to a 21-word sentence and the necessity for retaining details on his injury):

Michael Schumacher (German pronunciation: [ˈmɪçaːʔeːl ˈʃuːmaxɐ]; born 3 January 1969) is a German former racing driver, who competed in Formula One from 1991 to 2006 and from 2010 to 2012. Schumacher won a record-setting seven Formula One World Drivers' Championship titles, tied by Lewis Hamilton in 2020, and—at the time of his retirement—held the records for most wins (91), pole positions (68), and podium finishes (155), while he maintains the record for most fastest laps (77), among others.
Born in Hürth and raised in Kerpen to a working-class family, Schumacher began competitive kart racing aged four in a modified pedal kart. After a successful karting career—culminating in his victory at the direct-drive Karting European Championship in 1987—Schumacher graduated to junior formulae. He dominated Formula König in his debut season, before graduating to German Formula Three in 1989, where he finished third. He won the title the following season, also claiming the Macau Grand Prix and becoming a race-winner in the World Sportscar Championship with Sauber Mercedes. Schumacher made his debut Formula One appearance with Jordan at the Belgian Grand Prix in 1991; his qualifying performance saw Benetton sign him for the remainder of the season. In 1992, he achieved his maiden victory in Belgium amongst several podiums, which he repeated at the Portuguese Grand Prix in 1993. Schumacher won his maiden World Drivers' Championship with eight victories in 1994, following a collision with his rival, Damon Hill, at the last race of the season. He won a further nine Grands Prix as he defended his title in 1995.
Schumacher moved to the struggling Ferrari for his 1996 campaign, where he took several victories and finished third overall. He was involved in title battles in 1997 and 1998, being disqualified from the former for a collision with Jacques Villeneuve and finishing runner-up to Mika Häkkinen in the latter. His rivalry with Häkkinen continued into 1999, when Schumacher suffered a broken leg following a brake failure whilst second in the championship. He returned to beat Häkkinen to his first title with Ferrari in 2000, which he successfully defended in 2001. His 2002 campaign—during which he won a then-record 11 Grands Prix—saw him claim a record-equalling fifth title with an unparalleled perfect podium rate. He then claimed his unprecedented sixth and seventh titles, holding off Kimi Räikkönen and Juan Pablo Montoya in the former before winning 13 of 18 Grands Prix during the latter, breaking several further records. After dropping to third in 2005 and narrowly finishing runner-up to Fernando Alonso in 2006, Schumacher announced his retirement from Formula One. He later returned with the resurrected Mercedes from 2010 to 2012, claiming his final podium at the latter European Grand Prix, and has been credited with elevating the project to championship-winning form.
Schumacher was noted for pushing his machinery to the limit for sustained periods, as well as his pioneering fitness regimen, uncompromising racing style, and ability to galvanise teams around him. Appointed a UNESCO Champion for Sport in 2002, Schumacher has been involved in several humanitarian projects and has donated over US$65 million to various charities. In December 2013, Schumacher suffered a traumatic brain injury in a skiing accident and was placed in an induced coma for six months. He received further rehabilitation in Lausanne before being relocated to receive private treatment at his home in September 2014; he has not appeared publicly since.
It may be worth adding a sentence at the end that his son later competed in Formula One, although I am mindful of the word count already taking a liberty. All content is verified in the body. MB2437 05:29, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

"A pedal kart built from discarded parts" sounds clearer to me than "a modified pedal kart". What do you exactly mean with "uncompromising racing style"? If you imply ruthless, I would opt for something like "win-at-all-costs mentality". If Mick would be mentioned, we should also refer to Ralf tbh. I know the lede is already quite long, but is there a way to shortly indicate that the 2000 title win was Ferrari's first in 21 years? Otherwise, it looks very good to me. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 07:33, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
Yeah, your pedal kart detail is more accurate. "Uncompromising racing style" really means the same thing, either works. I suppose Mick being mentioned would be more duly weighted as Michael raised and coached him, where Ralf is less pertinent to his career and achievements, but details of that aren't in the article—both are prominently in the infobox and Mick is in the about template at the top of the article anyway. I could add "their first in 21 years" as an embedded clause between 2000 and 2001. MB2437 08:12, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
Sounds good. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 09:06, 25 June 2025 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria, could you please explain which points of the article you feel are overly detailed so they can be addressed? MB2437 02:40, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

The lead, personal life, and legacy are particularly problematic, though the article in general is wordy. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:46, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
The lead is 562 words, which is similar to an array of WP:FAs for BLP subjects with extensive careers, including Michael Jackson, Dominik Hašek, Paul McCartney, etc. Most of his career has been trimmed to 2–3 seasons per sentence, and trimming his early life—especially given how notable his background is in motor racing i.e. coming from a working-class family—from the lead fails adequate weighting of the article's content. A lot of the content in personal life is widely sourced but could be copyedited. I agree the legacy section should be trimmed in areas, although due weight would need close consideration.
His Formula One career section is fairly long although this is mostly due to the extent of his career; each season is a relatively normal length and, if anything, misses out on more key moments than it elaborates on. A move to Formula One career of Michael Schumacher could be justified given the article is presently almost WP:TOOLONG, although such articles have been swiftly deleted in the past by WP:F1 (as recently as February 2023 for Lewis Hamilton, as well as all Grand Prix victories articles).
(Apologies for the full rv! I only meant to replace the top of the article, which we discussed above.) MB2437 03:12, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
I don't doubt that there are other leads out there that could benefit from condensing, but per WP:LEADLENGTH most FA leads are considerably shorter. For example, if the working-class family claim is the piece that is significant, why not just say "Born to a working-class family..."? ("raised in Kerpen to a working-class family" isn't really grammatical anyways). Nikkimaria (talk) 03:21, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
Most FA leads, however, aren't for BLPs with multi-decade careers at the very pinnacle of their discipline, where skipping some details would require the reader to still look further to understand their career. We've established consensus (only one of the discussions I could immediately find) to mention each season of F1 driver careers in leads; it'd be like skipping major studio albums in a musician's lead, for example. I paid very close attention to concision when writing this one (took a lot of copyediting to bring it under 600 words!), similar to my work elsewhere.
His being second before his crash in 1999 is a crucial point, his retirement "from Formula One" is necessary for accuracy given he continued testing and motorcycle racing (omitted all those details), being 'tied with Hamilton' is consistent with his article (I previously removed all other mentions of Hamilton as they are irrelevant), and his Karting European Championship victory being in "direct-drive" specifically cannot really be omitted as three champions in different categories were awarded that season (could be rephrased to "a Karting European Championship in 1987" although it would read odd). I agree "raised in Kerpen" could be dropped, as his living there isn't really elaborated upon in the body, but I'd be in favour of retaining his place-of-birth: "Born in Hürth to a working-class family, [...]". MB2437 03:43, 29 June 2025 (UTC)

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Michael Schumacher (Ferrari) - GP d'Italia 1998.jpg
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:54, 10 October 2025 (UTC)