# Talk:My Mind Makes Noises

This review is transcluded from Talk:My Mind Makes Noises/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: ArcticSeeress (talk · contribs) 22:34, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Gen. Quon. I'm ArcticSeeress, and I'll be your reviewer for this nomination. I'll be looking forward to working with you! ArcticSeeress (talk) 22:34, 5 June 2022 (UTC)


### Production
#### Background
while the two were attending BIMM Manchester - Might want to specify what it actually is, e.g. "attending the BIMM Insitue in Manchester". The average reader won't know what BIMM is, so giving them more context would be better.
I spelled out "BIMM" the first time and then added the "in Manchester" bit as you suggested.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
with production team Sugar House - There's a lot of citations after this sentence. Perhaps put it in a single note.
I just removed the last three, since they were primary sources (and dubiously archived ones at that).--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


#### Recording
Link "There's a Honey" and "Television Romance" in the body
Done.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
band The 1975 - Decapitalise "the"
Oh, good catch! Fixed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
"There’s a naivety and a purity to them and an honesty to them that kind of comes through in their music,” - Replace the curly apostrophes and quotation mark with straight ones
Done.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
You missed the one in There’s. It should be There's. ArcticSeeress (talk) 16:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
OK, I think I snagged 'em all now.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 16:59, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
his producing their songs - While using possessive pronouns with gerund phrases is prescribed by some grammarians, most English speakers would expect a "him producing their songs" here.
To avoid it altogether, I just changed it to "inquiring if he and Daniel could produce their songs". Would that work?--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
While talking to the University of Exeter's Exeposé - "The University of Exter's student-run paper Exeposé"
Done.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
You should link to the article on the paper as well. ArcticSeeress (talk) 16:40, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Done!--Gen. Quon[Talk] 17:00, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
had started recording working on - Might want to rephrase that.
How its "On 4 January 2018, Heather Baron-Gracie announced via Twitter that the band had begun recording their debut album"?--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Baron-Gracie admitted - The following quote contains a lot of ommisions and rephrasings, so much so that it gets awkward to read. Perhaps break up the quotes or remove some of it.
I went and broke it up into two quotes rather than one. How does it look now?--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Coup de Main Magazine might not be a reliable source, but I'll let it slide here considering you're just using them for the tweet she posted. You also need to add them as the work in the citation template.
Added. I'll talk about Coup de Main here in a bit.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
worked with the 1975 on their eponymous album (2013), I Like It When You Sleep, for You Are So Beautiful yet So Unaware of It (2016), and A Brief Inquiry into Online Relationships (2018) - This sentence feels somewhat like a garden path sentence on first read-through, making me go back and read it again to confirm what it actually meant. My suggestion for a rewrite: "on their eponymous album (2013), in addition to their following albums [...]"
Good idea. I went ahead and implemented a variation of what you suggested.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


#### Content
Ones To Watch does not seem to be a reliable source, but I'll be treating it as a primary (or close to primary) source where applicable, as it seems to mostly support comments made by the band themselves.
This was actually discussed in the GA review for "There's a Honey". The reviewer there had similar reservations, but they were comfortable with my using the "Q&A: Pale Waves Guides Us..." source, since it's an interview with the band. (If it were an album review or something, I wouldn't use them.)--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Love Music; Love Life does not seem to be reliable either. The quote that you cite to them comes from a Fader article, so use that as a source instead.
Good catch; changed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
"She" is an "all emo" lament that details a once-passionate relationship collapsing - The source does not state this
This was me taking the source and the lyrics together. I can try to find a source for the lyrics, though.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The wiktionary link to "banger" could be more specific, i.e. wikt:banger#English:_piece_of_music (note for further reference: this only works if someone has used the senseid template on a specific entry on Wiktionary)
Link has been changed. I don't know much about the senseid aspect. Is there a good link for more info? I'm more than happy to make some changes on Wiktionary, if necessary.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
You can read the documentation at wikt:Template:senseid. The template is just added before the specific entry you want to link to (but after the #). This is how the wikitext currently looks at wikt:banger:
# {{senseid|en|piece of music}} {{lb|en|British|music|slang}} A powerfully [[energetic]] piece of [[music]], especially [[dance music]].
I honestly hadn't seen this functionality before a few days ago, so links using it seem fairly underused despite the fact that the template itself is used on a lot of pages. ArcticSeeress (talk) 16:20, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Ah, cool! It appears to already be set up, correct?--Gen. Quon[Talk] 17:09, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
– a song that Ones to Watch likened to the work of both Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen – - Ones To Watch  is a blog, and therefore comments from them are not reliable. This should not be included.
Fair. Removed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
[50][51][52][53] - Too many citations. Put them all in one note.
Done.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


### Promotion and singles
and music video for the song, directed by Silent Tapes, was released on 11 April 2017. Matty Healy and Samuel Burgess-Johnson served as the video's creative directors - The Coup de Main reference doesn't actually verify anything here, and considering it is not reliable, I'd suggest removing it. The other source already does all the heavy lifting.
The Coup de Main source was backing-up the bit about Matty Healy and Samuel Burgess-Johnson serving as creative directors. I replaced it source with one that lists the production credits of the video.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
and Samuel Burgess-Johnson - This specifically is not verified in either source, though.
See above.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The music video for the single was co-directed by Samuel Burgess-Johnson and Matty Healy debuted on 18 September 2017 - This sentence includes two finite verbs phrases (e.g. "was co-directed" and "debuted"). Remove one of them.
I changed this to be two full sentences connected with "and".--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
was co-directed by Samuel Burgess-Johnson and Matty Healy - This is not verified in the source
It's included in the metadata of the YouTube page, but for some reason, it's buried now. I've added a source from Hot Press to back it all up, however.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The song was mistakenly leaked on Spotify early on 27 April 2017 but was taken down shortly after - The source does not state the date. I also don't see why it needs to be in parentheses here, because you could have just included it with the previous sentence with an "although"
Removed date and consolidated.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
subsequently named the "Hottest Record in the World" by the show - This doesn't seem worthy of inclusion here.
Removed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
whereupon it too was named the "Hottest Record in the World" for that day - Again, may not be be worth including.
Removed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
that sees Baron-Gracie taking on the persona of four distinct emotions - Coup de Main is not reliable. Either find another source for this information, or remove it.
See comment below.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
trysts with an unseen lover - The Coup de Main reference here isn't necessary, as it doesn't describe anything the video reference doesn't.
See comment below.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
and was named his "World Record" for the day - May not be worthy of inclusion
Removed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
which was directed by the duo Sophia + Robert - Promo News may not be a reliable source for this information
I swapped this source out for the directors' website.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
mxdwn does not indicate that they have an editorial board or policy. May be unreliable
Swapped out for an Alt Press citation.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The same goes for Last.fm
Ditto.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


### Critical reception
Regarding the Anthony Fantano source, see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Sources: Rough consensus among editors was reached that Fantano is considered to be an established subject-matter expert as it pertains to music reviews and that that these reviews may be used in an article as attributed opinion. The information you cite him to here is not an opinion, but a matter of fact statement. This should either be attributed another source, removed entirely, or be supported by the rest of the text in the section.
Fair enough. Excised.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
You shouldn't write the score in the prose itself (e.g. perfect score, four-out-of-five star review, four out of five stars) ; that is already handled by the table on the right.
Adjusted.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 16:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
reviewer Stephen Ackroyd called the album "a glorious coronation, plain and simple" and noted that My Mind Makes Noises was a record of "such assured confidence it belies just how raw Pale Waves still are" - This isn't really of much substance here, as it doesn't actually give any insight into what the reviewer thought about the album beyond just "it was good" with some extra flair.
This feels like a subjective thing, to me. Personally, I find "emotional, arresting and endearing" to be a really interesting descriptor of the album, even though its abstract.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 16:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The DIY reference is listed as "Dork Review"
Fixed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Swedish songwriting factories - Why is Max Martin linked here? The source mentions nothing about him, so linking him here is probably original research.
Removed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The accolades table should probably have the rank and the list in the other order, as having it like this makes the reader view it in a very strange order. I.e. 1. they read the publication, then 2. they see the rank, but don't have any context for what it is for until 3. they read the list, and so 4. go back to the rank column to see the number again.
Swapped.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


### Commercial performance
In the United States (where the album was distributed by Interscope Records),[5] the album - replace the second "the album" with "it"
Fixed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


### Charts
Archive the Oricon reference
This doesn't seem to be a possible with the "album chart" template. Any suggestions?--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
I've managed to find the week itself, but everything under rank 50 is locked behind an app, with the obnoxious "You can enjoy the Oricon Rankings even further!" I think a more sensible option is to just use the product page on Oricon, as the same information is stated there anyway. ArcticSeeress (talk) 16:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Done!--Gen. Quon[Talk] 17:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
The UK cassettes chart has "everyHit.com" as the work in the reference, but this is not the case.
Oops! That has been fixed.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


### Lead
Metacritic and Any Decent Music? - Swap these around so the sentence doesn't end on a question mark: "Any Decent Music? and Metacritic."
Done!--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


### Overall assessment
The article has some small issues in regards to prose, but most of it is well written and follows MOS. It has some issues with verification, and some of the sources may not be reliable. The scope of the article is broad and doesn't go into unnecessary detail. The media used in the article illustrate the article, and are either free, or have acceptable fair-use rationales. The article is stable aside from you yourself editing the article, which will most likely end at some point. The article is also neutrally written. In short, if the issues in this review are resolved, then I'd feel comfortable giving this article a pass. I'll put this article on hold for the time being. ArcticSeeress (talk) 14:07, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

@ArcticSeeress: I have responded to and/or implemented all of your suggestions. I wanted to talk about Coup de Main briefly. I'm not sure why it doesn't count as an RS here. It's a music magazine that has an chief editor[1][2], and it is verified by Muck Rack. That said, I'll try to find more reliable sourcing for the music videos. I feel like the interview citations, however, are pretty solid.--Gen. Quon[Talk] 15:46, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Right, I did not think to use external websites when assessing the reliability of Coup de Main magazine. I only thought to look for an editorial board or policy on the website itself. I'll take a look through the article when I get the time. ArcticSeeress (talk) 15:53, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
@Gen. Quon: I've made some extra comments above (just ctrl-f "curly apostrophe", "Exeposé", "senseid" and "Oricon"). ArcticSeeress (talk) 16:52, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
@ArcticSeeress: How does it all look now?--Gen. Quon[Talk] 17:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
I fixed the Oricon reference up slightly, but aside from that, looks good to go. Good work! ArcticSeeress (talk) 17:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)