# Talk:Mercyful Fate

This article is somewhat POV and sounds like it was written for a popular magazine, not wikipedia. I cleaned up some of the more evident POV, but I really think this article needs a re-write. marnues 04:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Removed: "Later on 6-years after preforming in 1982, King Diamond had to retire in 1988 before releasing his best album called Conspiracy and disbanded after his two solo albums. In 1991, King Diamond returned to Mercyful Fate to get everything back to normal again until King Diamond got fired in 2000."
I couldn't work out the chronology in this paragraph -- sannse 09:31 Mar 30, 2003 (UTC)
For Michael:

preforming should be performing.
Please keep the distinction between a group and a person separate.  There is a group called King Diamond and a person that is referred to by the same name; the reader should have no confusion about which is being referred to.
King Diamond's self-titled album is called King Diamond, not Self-Titled.
No subpages, please.
I don't think Conspiracy is (his/their???) best album.  This is a point-of-view.  See NPOV.
Both sentences above are run-ons.  One sentence should present one idea.  Who disbanded, when?  Why?  What does normal mean in this context?  Tuf-Kat

Interpretations about "Melissa" are personal interpretations of the author. Comes off like an album review. Should be included?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by MADDOX456 (talk • contribs) 01:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC) 

Why was MercyfulFateGroup.jpg removed?  I'll see if I can find another.  Oddity- 03:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I would call Mercyful Fate black metal - one of the first wave of none-Norweigan black metal bands, in fact. It fits, stylistically, as well as with their beliefs and intent. What says everyone else? Dysk

I agree with this. I think they're generally acknowledged as an early/proto black metal band.Spearhead 08:42, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
That is because, MF musically has almost nothing in common with bands like Darkthrone and Mayhem, although their lyrics and image was highly influential on Black metal.  Other a few lyric similarities, MF has nothing to do with black metal.Avador 04:28, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The same goes for Venom, although they don't have much to do with black metal either besides their image and lyrical themes (that, and they were a joke band). The parts of the article calling MF black metal should probably be edited. Dysfunktion 01:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Disagreed. MF's style was labelled Black Metal in the 80s, you can't deny that history. In the beginning when everything was not standardized, there's no such trend deciding what black metal should sound like, and that's why sound of the first wave of black metal appeared to be so varied. The same goes for Viking metal, if it finally evolves a distinquishable brand new sound some day in the future, not just talking about Vikings in the lyrics, anyone who has a common sense about Viking metal history won't dismiss the latter day Bathory or Ensiferum as just some "non-Viking band which help inspired the Viking genre".
I would agree that MF could be some type of "early black metal", or "proto black metal", ect.  Image wise, lyricaly and somewhat musically, it's obvious the band had a big influence on what would become black metal, but genre wise, if  someone said "what kind of music is Mercyful Fate?" the answer would not be "black metal", IMO. Skeletor2112 11:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Lyrically MF may be very similar to black metal, but musically they are completely heavy metal. Even if they were known as Black Metal in the 80's they are known as heavy metal today. Remember that Metallica was called power metal in the 80's, but no one is going around calling them power metal today. marnues 07:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
That's only modern critics fault! In the 80's and early '90, bands of this presumed "First Wave of Black Metal" were labeled simply as heavy metal or, at least, thrash metal. Today, metal is a complicated genre with those millions of labels and with its changed history. Tomorrow we'll see the "First Wave of Thrash Metal" of Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Raven, Judas Priest, Diamond Head and the "First Wave of Death Metal" of Slayer, Dark Angel, Kreator and Destruction. Perhaps also "the first wave of hair metal" with KISS, Alice Cooper and New York Dolls. However I agree with Marnues, lyrically they may be black metal, but musically heavy metal. --Born Again 83 (talk) 16:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

There are so many things wrong with what you just said that I can't bring myself to say anything further. Blizzard Beast $ODIN$ 19:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
My uncle listen also to heavy metal and was a part of the metal scene in the 70's and 80's. He told me that all those bands were classified as heavy metal or thrash metal. Now there are many changes. However, for me metal is going to be very incomprehensible. Tomorrow there will be another theory about a metal genre. Don't worry, if these are the sources I won't change that "first wave of black metal". IMHO the REAL black metal is Mayhem, Gorgoroth, Burzum, Immortal, Darkthrone. --Born Again 83 (talk) 22:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
MF's music is similar to heavy metal bands and sometimes a little more speedy but it has nothing to do with black .I'm agreed with Dysfunktion .MF has had influences on black metal even in their music but their genre,it really doesnt represent any elements a black metal music has.And anyways,you need to have a source for anything you put here.So you need to add source/sources for black metal.Solinothe Wolf 21:54, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

A member of ANUS.com claims to have returned Melissa to King Diamond. [1] Discuss ... ?
--220.237.229.79 14:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Hope they turned up the talent knob!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.220.116.210 (talk) 01:30, 1 March 2009 (UTC) 

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mercyful Fate/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: PortlandOregon97217 (talk · contribs) 08:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

The only citation I have a problem with is #3 and how it says CBS demanded they sing in their language. That sounds contentious to me and I don't think a youtube clip is sufficient.
Also the one linking to http://www.allmusic.com/artist/mercyful-fate-mn0000343954 saying that he was tired of their satanic sound and wanting to sound more "commercial". I'm not sure about the refs in this article and I would need a second opinion on them.
I don't think it sounds to good how it segues into talking about King Diamond in After Disbanding and details his other side projects. But I guess it's a GA and not featured so thats ok for now I guess.
" While closer to thrash metal than black metal by today's standards, many of these groups helped established the style on which future black metal artists would later build upon". I think that would qualify as OR. I mean, As a metal fan I have seen the movie that it links, and I don't recall them discussing king diamond in depth, or anything more than possibly a trivial reference.
So, I would ask that the concerned parties here ask for a second opinion on the citations, because I do not feel qualified to judge the merit of these citations. In the mean time, maybe you guys can fix/adjust what I mentioned? PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 01:58, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Holy crap King Diamond ROCKS. I couldn't resist when I saw Mercyful Fate! PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 08:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

So... what's going on with the review? It's been almost ten days.--SilverBullitt (talk) 15:59, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Additional Comment:: I would like to add a few comments to this review of a very important heavy metal band. Mercyful Fate were pioneers of metal and were one of the few bands which defined black metal for the many groups founded in the 1990s. I think that a section about the reception that the band received in its various incarnations should be added to the article. In fact, their early and most significant accomplishments were not easily recognized by the press, which heavily criticized the music, the shows, the appearance of King Diamond and the Satanic lyrics. Another part that bothers me are the early years of the band, when Mercyful Fate travelled all over Europe with the most important metal bands of the time and befriended Metallica, which supported them in many shows. I think that something about those tours should be mentioned in the article.
About the influences, critics and both Shermann and Denner acknowledged the influence of Judas Priest on their music, which should be added. About the legacy, I would add something about the influence of Mercyful Fate on the many Scandinavian black metal bands founded in 1990s. Finally, the 'Associated Acts' line in the infobox should be filled with at least Force of Evil and King Diamond. Lewismaster (talk) 11:41, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the points you made, the problem is finding reliable sources for the information. I try to improve the article as much as I can, but like I said, it's not easy finding the sources.--SilverBullitt (talk) 08:29, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
You could start with Lords of Chaos - The Bloody Rise of the Satanic Metal Underground by Michael Moynihan and Didrik Søderlind (isbn = 0-922915-48-2, but easily available for download on the web), a book detailing the birth of Scandinavian black metal, which cites Mercyful Fate as one of the main influences on the movement and explains the cultural and musical origins of black metal. The relationship with Metallica is partially explained in Justice for All: the Truth About Metallica a biography by Joel McIver (isbn=978-1847727978). Unfortunately, articles and criticism about Mercyful Fate's music are scattered in multiple issues of Kerrang!, Metal Hammer and other magazines from the 80s and in reference books like Martin Popoff's Collectors Guide to Heavy Metal series. I can try to dig out some references from my old collection of magazines. Besides the usual King Diamond banter, I think that you could search for interviews to Shermann and Denner on the web and extract from those any info useful to enhance the article. Keep on working on the article and it will be great! Lewismaster (talk) 11:18, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Response to GA Review: I fixed most of the problems mentioned in the GA review above. Hope it helps.--SilverBullitt (talk) 07:09, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Since the issues are addressed and the reviewer seems to have forgotten this, I'll pass the article. Wizardman 22:48, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

The sections recording and release, Melissa, the skull, content and music, touring and various info are a copypaste from this page. Nite-Sirk (talk) 05:00, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

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