# Talk:Bullet Rogan

The Hall of Fame shows Rogan with a birthdate of 1889, but this is in dispute by Negro Leagues researchers including Phil Dixon, whose works are cited here as a source.  Rogan shows up on the 1900 census (as Charles W. Rogan) in Oklahoma Co., Oklahoma Territory with his father and younger brother at six years of age with a birth date of July 1893. He shows up on the 1910 census in Kansas City, KS with his father, step-mother, brother, and two half-siblings, aged 17 (the writing in this census record is highly cursive, and his name appears to be "Wilbern", which is the only reference to that phantom "n" in his name).
In 1920, he showed up twice, once with the 25th Infantry in Nogales, AZ and at the Jefferson Barracks in St. Louis, MO; it is assumed that he was most likely in St. Louis, as he was discharged from there later the same year, and that he was just listed on the roster with his old unit and was accidentally recorded in the census as being there as well (it's definitely the same guy, and the census records were two days apart).  In Arizona, he is listed as 27 years old, while in St. Louis, he is listed as 30; this is the first record in which his birth date shows the earlier date.  His 1930 census record (in Kansas City, MO) shows him as 36.  He did not register for the WW1 draft, already being in the Army, but he did register in the "old men's draft" for WW2, and gave his age to indicate an earlier birth year.  This is the most commonly cited source for the 1889 birth year; one has to ask, however, if it's more likely to make that three-year mistake when a child is nine (calling him six) or when a man is 49 (calling him 52).
Vital stats on Negro League players is still sketchy, and as more data becomes available, they are being updated.  The Hall has codified several mistakes before, including incorrectly listing Pete Hill's first name.  If Rogan's birthdate is maintained at 1889, it should at least be noted that latest research disputes that finding.  -- Couillaud (talk) 15:27, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bullet Rogan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Wizardman Operation Big Bear 05:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
This article is good overall, I just have a couple notes:

I presume those paragraphs with only one cite cover the entire paragraph, right? (which is allowed of course) Also, those sentences that aren't cited but the next sentence is are using that cite, right? Just checking, since some may need their own cite anyway.
Mix up how the paragraphs in Professional career start. Right now most are "in 19__,..."
Only a couple things, so I'll put this on hold and pass it when it's all clarified. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 05:35, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the review.  I should first disclose that while I nominated this as a good article, I am not the main author.  The principal author is User:Satchel; I merely noticed the quality of this article and decided to nominate it.  My own contributions to this article consist of copyediting it for consistency with WP:MOS and adding the statistics tables.  With respect to the citations, I've gone through the notes and checked the content and page numbers against the books that I have (Clark and Lester, Figueredo, Hogan, Holway, Riley, and Rock).  I don't have Dixon, Lester 2001, Lester 2006, or McNeil, so I haven't been able to verify those citations.  Most of the cases you mention where a single note comes at the end of a paragraph are citations of Dixon, so I haven't been able to check them.  Although User:Satchel hasn't edited here recently, I know him from other work he's done on Negro league baseball, so I will send him an email asking him to verify the other citations.
With respect to your other comment, I've edited the text to cut back on sentences beginning "in 19__,..."  BRMo (talk) 03:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Alright. Let me know when you get a response on the Dixon issue. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 05:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
I haven't heard back from User:Satchel (I'm not even sure my email got through), but User:Couillaud says he has a copy of Dixon's book and is willing to check the references.  (See User talk:Couillaud#Bullet Rogan article amd User talk:BRMo#Rogan article.)  I suggested that it's probably not necessary to check every single reference, but that spot checking a half dozen or so should suffice to see what the citation practices were.  Would you agree? BRMo (talk) 16:44, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds like the best course of action. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 18:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
I checked most of the citations from Dixon.  Citation 6 covers the entire paragraph, as does citation 9.  Citation 36 covers both prior sentences.  It appears to be the pattern of the article.  --  Couillaud (talk) 18:44, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Great. In that case I'll pass the article as a GA. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Bullet Rogan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090725083815/http://www.baseballlibrary.com:80/ballplayers/player.php?name=Bullet_Joe_Rogan_1889 to http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Bullet_Joe_Rogan_1889
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:52, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

File:24th Infantry Charles Wilbur Rogan in the Philippines at Camp 3.jpg features a Browning M1917 machine gun, and it couldn't have been photographed in 1911-1914 when Rogan served in the Philippines. Might it be a later recreation? Ain92 (talk) 11:11, 23 June 2023 (UTC)