# Talk:Melian (Middle-earth)

Counsel(l)ed can be spelled either way, and I've used it in each. I think one is the European way, the other the American (don't quote me on that though), so it's really a matter of personal preference.
The Manual of Style says to use British English for Tolkien articles. Thu 13:29, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I've replaced "House of Thingol and Melian" tree with template, but I'm not quite sure that the tree is needed overall: Melian has little to do with the descedants of Olwe and Elmo, and those which are relevant in the article appear in the Half-elven tree - which is more appropriate as shows Melian's importance to later history. Also I suppose "Etymology" section is needless. As it stands now, all information from it would be more convenietly included into the main text, alternatively much more etymological detail must be inroduced (but this would entail original research). --Súrendil 12:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, once again I can't agree. Melian is a major character of the Silmarillion, her relation to descendants in the third age is secondary. The half-elven tree is actually superfluous to an article about her and could be a one line reference in the text. Part of the difficulty in using a template tree instead of individual family tree is that the template forces its own view and the tree can't be tailored to the character. The previous tree could be individually modified to leave out Olwe and Elmo (who are at least her in-laws - what do Finwe, Indis, Hador, etc have to do with this article?). Tree should fit article, not article fit template. Etymology is of interest and if you remove it people will begin interrupting the text by entering the same things parenthetically into the acticle text leading to poor formatting which is why words have been moved there in the first place.Tttom1 21:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

See Talk:Melian for reasons to move this article to main namespace. Súrendil 18:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
This article has been renamed from Melian (Middle-earth) to Melian as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 11:35, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

can we please post a picture of her in this article?. THX.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.8.240 (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC) 

Given the article was recreated and previously deleted, I think it would make sense to restore the past history of the article and talk pages. This would also allow us to confirm whether the new version is a significant improvement (which is likely). Ping User:Ritchie333 who closed the AfD and deleted the page (also User:Wbm1058, not sure why the talk page was deleted twice...?). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:02, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

I suggest that you judge the current extent of the article's sourcing on its own merits, and perhaps a WP:BEFORE to see if there's any other sources relevant to the subject topic which this article have yet to cite. Haleth (talk) 13:04, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
The minimal action is to link the old AfDs above here in a standard talk page history record. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:34, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
 Done – After this was deleted, I restored the history to move it off the base title Melian which is a disambiguation (obviously a deleted topic cannot be a WP:Primary topic). Hence the need for the second deletion. wbm1058 (talk) 13:57, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Interesting to see the deletion argument, consisting largely of there not being secondary sources in the article; the actual criterion would be that no such sources existed (in the world), in this case false; it seems to be a common error at AfD more widely. WP:BEFORE by the !voters would swiftly have established the existence of multiple reliable sources. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:20, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
Two of the sources I used are from the year 2020, which the late-2019 AfD predates. Even without them though, there are plenty of sources to adequately support most of the content presented in the recreated article. Yes, I agree with the view you formed about this AfD error being a widespread issue. Haleth (talk) 02:42, 17 February 2021 (UTC)