# Talk:Katherine Ann Power

In working to eliminate unwieldy sentences and frequent repeating of words, I came across a factual discrepancy that needs to be addressed by the primary editor of this article.  The text reads as follows:

Shortly after the robbery, Gilday, Valeri, and Bond were all captured.[1] Valeri turned state's evidence and testified against Gilday. Bond, however, died before his trial while making a bomb in jail in order to escape.[1] Valeri received 25 years for the robbery while Bond received a life sentence.
So which is it?  Did he get a life sentence or did he died before trial?  I would guess he got the life sentecne but died some time after that.  If anyone knows or finds out, please fix.  thanks LiPollis 12:19, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

The lead sentence describes her as an ex-criminal.  How can one be an ex-criminal?  It's a mild POV issue, but would appear to be the result of someone trying to "soften" her image.  Kemkerj 14:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's someone trying to soften her image, it might be more of a semantics issue. You can be an ex-convict, can you be an ex-criminal? I don't see why it can't be changed back. I assume if you've served your time you're still a criminal, but maybe the anon editor was trying to convey that she isn't actively committing crimes right now? Katr67 17:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Aboutmovies can you check your sources to see if they back up the birth certificate date fact I added? It's in the other sources if not, but I didn't want to add unnecessary clutter. Katr67 17:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I was also going to remove the aside about Berrigan, with a summary to the effect that I don't think we need a clarification about Berrigan's stance on violence on this page and that I think it would go better on his page if needed there. Katr67 22:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. Aboutmovies 22:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Create articles for the red linked items, use some of the info to expand upon the article where they are referenced, especially the high school.
Create an article for the robbery, check with Wikipedia:WikiProject Boston to see if maybe they want to do that as they may know of a good title for the article.
Create template to be placed as a graphic like object inline with text that has the robbers, victim, and sentence plus maybe DOB.
Try to add pictures of other robbers to break up the text (reduce size of FBI logo).
See about expanding FBI most wanted info such as first woman, longest time ever, etc. if there is something there. Plus I think there was something where the FBI had her as a suspect for another anti-war related crime.
Expand cultural references, especially see if anything maybe made in the 70s and 80s before her surrender.
Expand info on the depression into a full paragraph to add context and depth.
Then maybe see about where she is today and address any GA comments. Aboutmovies 19:04, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I came across a minor factual error and removed the sentence. It had been stated that "As of Nov. 6th, 2001, Katherine Ann Power was a faculty member in the Philosphy Department at Oregon State University" and it referenced the following article (http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2001/Sep01/ideas.htm).
However, upon review, the article does not state she was a faculty member. It might have infered from other sources that identified her as "surviving freshman composition teaching", however, both situations can easily be explained by the prevalence of graduate students teaching courses and giving lectures, especially in light of one of these same source documents suggesting her plans to leave the university soon "and gearing up for a new life in the Northeast next year." (http://oregonstate.edu/cla/philosophy/about/report_highlights/0001.php). Minor, but worth discussing.
Ackermal 20:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict)I changed the wording of the sentence that had been removed regarding Power having been a faculty member because I don't think it can be inferred that she was a faculty member from the cited source and I have been unable to find any other sources for the information. She did teach freshman comp so I updated the article to reflect that. Latr, Katr 20:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

How does it look now? Latr, Katr 21:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Walter Schroeder left behind a wife and nine children. And three years after he was killed, his brother John, also a Boston policeman, was shot and killed as well. These facts may not be necessary to this page, but the Schroeder family is the reason you're writing a Katherine Power article - and of course, the Schroeders don't deserve a page of their own. MarkinBoston 15:34, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Walter does need an article, and there you could work in the family details. And no, the Schroeder family is not the only reason for this article. Power and the rest would warrant articles as notable even if Schroeder had not been shot and killed due to the armory robbery and armed bank robbery as protests to the war. Aboutmovies 18:27, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Problem with the FBI's assertion is that their own documents that are linked from the cited article do not list Power as a member (see the index where her name is not present). Further, the founder of the group said she wasn't part of the group. Aboutmovies (talk) 18:44, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, Power was said to have links to the group (for instance she was involved with the SDS, which had ties to the Weathermen), but as the FBI documents attest, she was not a member. Also, this is a WP:BLP, and none of this came up at trial, so we problems with making allegations such as this, even if the FBI's website says so (which that page would not really qualify as a reliable source in my opinion as it lacks sourcing and even a name, plus notice how she is not mentioned in the article, only the caption). Further, notice that she is not mentioned at Weatherman (organization). Now, the real kicker is that if you do a search of reliable sources you get these results:
Hits for her full name and "Weather Underground" gets you 31 hits. Going through just the first 10, and eight do not say she is a member of the group, the reference refers to other people. The two others, they do say she is, but both are columnists.
Taken in the aggregate, the reference needs to be removed pending a conviction or confession. Aboutmovies (talk) 10:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

There is (as yet) no evidence for the {citation needed} "fact" that William "Lefty" Gilday died in the infirmary at MCI Shirley on September 9, 2011.
Postdrop (talk) 02:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for checking. I'm not sure the info belongs in this article at all anyway. Valfontis (talk) 04:34, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

It seemed written like an essay. It was written as OR and POV prose and had no RS for its claims. Nor was it notable as a school or website.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:08, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Moving on to the Crimson article you keep removing from the EL section, is 40 years old your best argument? Given that her claim to fame is that old and there are already two 40+ year old sources used in the article, plus we just don't care how old sources are, we need something else. As it is, the newspaper article provides context into the events that created notability for Power. But, it is more detail and surrounding events than what we would necessarily provide in the article. Thus why the EL section is ideal for it, and in general what we use EL sections for. Otherwise, you need to seek consensus to remove it, as it has been there for years, including for when it passed GA (which requires that it meet MOS standards that would include the EL guidelines). Aboutmovies (talk) 07:25, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
WP:ELNO "1. Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article." As well as you being a lawyer from Oregon where she lived for years some may question you as POV, COI, etc, etc.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
such is also WP:ELNO "13.Sites that are only indirectly related to the article's subject: the link should be directly related to the subject of the article. A general site that has information about a variety of subjects should usually not be linked to from an article on a more specific subject. Similarly, a website on a specific subject should usually not be linked from an article about a general subject." The link might be appropriate for a broader article, but it is not about the individual subject of this article. -- The Red Pen of Doom 17:01, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Are you serious? How many GA and FA reviews have you even been through? I ask because in order to expand this article to that point, I personally would use that source, and since I'm basically the only person to have ever seriously expanded what was a 6 sentence little stub, I think I am actually the only person in a position to really determine whether or not it would be used (please do not confuse this with WP:OWN as there have been numerous changes since then). Did you even read the Crimson article where it details the fugitives, including Power's, flight from justice? She is a central figure in the article, an article about the exploits of the group who did the robbery and related crimes. A good editor would incorporate that into a more robust article about Power if one were attempting FA status. The reason I did not personally incorporate it earlier, is if that information is incorporated I believe there would then be too much on just the fugitive status portion and there would be an WP:NPOV problem. In time, as more non-criminal type details become available, those areas can also be expanded to allow for expansion of the crime related sections. Obviously the crime related portions will always dominate, but that is in-line with NPOV as that is what makes her notable, but it cannot be too far out-of-whack if you will, there has to be some balance. Thus, ELNO 1 does not apply, and ELNO 13 makes no sense unless you never read the article where Powers is repeatedly mentioned. What ELNO 13 is really referring to would be in an article about say a football player at Penn State having a link to the Penn State athletics website's homepage. Here, the article in question covers Power as part of a broader article on the topic of the crimes she and others committed. Almost any source used on the crimes will include info beyond Power and cover the other actors. As to POV and COI, simply put, not relevant. I've also lived in the United States, that does not mean I have a POV or COI that is in anyway relevant to contributing to any articles in/about/from the United States. I fail to understand how being a lawyer would present any issue whatsoever in regards to any policy or guideline. I understand you are a newer editor, and once you have been around for awhile you will come to better understand what those policies are designed to address. In my early days I had a warped sense of those issues, but over time editors come to understand what those are about, and it is not about having lived in the same state as someone or being a lawyer where the article in a tangent way may touch upon a legal issue. Those policies/guidelines are about direct connections where you work for the company, or campaign (for COI), and POV is more of the actual content in the article, and nobody has ever said this article is out-of-balance, which is why it passed GA. The crimes dominate as they should, but they do not overwhelm, as many regular biographical details have been included as could be found at the time of the expansion in 2007 (its been 5 years, so more may be available). But I await the input of more experienced editors on the topic who have an understanding of the guidelines and policies in play. Aboutmovies (talk) 17:44, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Then use it as a source, if it is indeed reliable. Done. -- The Red Pen of Doom 17:53, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

The purpose of an external link is to let the reader find more relevant information.  The Crimson article does not fill that purpose, no matter how many years it has been here.  It has no more value than using a score of NYT articles as ELs.  And it is necessary to provide justification specifically per The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link. Indeed, Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article. should be avoided.  Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:41, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060914011630/http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2001/May01/kap.htm to http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2001/May01/kap.htm
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060907042228/http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2001/Sep01/ideas.htm to http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2001/Sep01/ideas.htm
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Hello, I am employed by Boston University's Fineman & Pappas Law Libraries. After reviewing this Wikipedia page, I believe that information from one of our faculty's scholarship might provide a valuable addition to this page. I would appreciate it if this requested edit could be reviewed.

Add (currently missing) citation to the following sentence to the second paragraph in the 'Surrender' section of the article: "Additionally, judge Robert Banks of Suffolk County Superior Court imposed a probation condition that Power could not profit from her crime."

Cf2022 (talk) 04:50, 18 January 2021 (UTC)Cf2022

Perhaps I'm confused but the paragraph already includes this sentence:
This probation condition also precluded her ability to profit directly or indirectly from telling her story.

How does your proposed sentence differ from this sentence? (I do note that your reference may be a better reference).--S Philbrick(Talk) 13:28, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
If I understand correctly, Cf2022 suggested we add the citation, not that we add the ref. sentence.  Under that assumption I went ahead and added the citation. It never hurts to have additional suitable sources. I've marked it as  Done Ferkijel (talk) 07:44, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Kathapower.jpg
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:48, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Kathapower.jpg
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:02, 5 July 2025 (UTC)