# Talk:Firebird (roller coaster)

Can I please make a edit that Iron Wolf is rough because of the style of the trains?
MHLU (talk) 23:07, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Sure - It is rough because the train doesn't basicly run on B&M's box-section track - on Intamin's track that is not box section.
Glad to help. 70.246.204.190 (talk) 23:33, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Not true, Iron Wolf is not rough due to the style of trains. It has used the same trains since its opening in 1990, and ran smoothly up until about 2001. Article altered to reflect that. 69.23.208.51 (talk) 07:38, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Should the title of this coaster be changed to Apocalypse: The Last Stand. That is the official name of the coaster  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Astros4477 (talk • contribs) 03:44, 5 December 2011 (UTC) 

The Last Stand is a subtitle and doesn't necessarily need to exist in the article's title heading.  As you can see from the description on Six Flags' website, it is commonly referred to as just Apocalypse.  The title seems to be fine the way it is.  Another thing to consider is that if the title is changed following your suggestion, multiple links that have recently been updated to point to Apocalypse (Six Flags America) will need to be updated again.  Probably not worth it, IMHO.  Check your talk page, by the way, for other messages about recent edits you've made.  GoneIn60 (talk) 17:30, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the above. I have added a redirect at Apocalypse: The Last Stand to point to this article. Themeparkgc  Talk  21:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

With the info box Astros4477 added makes it looks like their was two of the same rides at two different parks but it is not! Like for example SkyScreamer they are all different in some way and at different parks. Apocalypse is just a relocated ride so it shouldn't look like a their is still one at Great America.--Jpp858 (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

It clearly states it has been closed and relocated from Great America to America. --Astros4477 (talk) 23:45, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
I support the extended infobox. I created that functionality to allow multiple locations to be included whether two rides were run in parallel with identical names and statistics, or whether rides were relocated. Themeparkgc  Talk  01:36, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Can someone take off the tag that says introduce in 2011, since it wasn't introduce in 2011. Cause I can't just take it off it it is like filter with the infobox.--Jpp858 (talk) 03:19, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
That was a result of you using the year parameter incorrectly. I fixed it in this edit. The year parameter is used for the year rides were introduced and not for the year that they closed. Themeparkgc  Talk  03:57, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Apocalypse (Six Flags America)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Meetthefeebles (talk · contribs) 18:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I'll review. Give me a couple of hours to have a read through and make some comments...Meetthefeebles (talk) 18:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I'll make a start. My first comment would be that the article is rather short and certainly shorter than any other GAN I've seen. Other than the GA Criteria, I've had a bit of a root about to see if there is any guidance on what I should expect to find in an article like this to ensure that c.3 of the criteria are met and it seems that some other coaster GA's are just as short (Behemoth (roller coaster) and Leviathan (roller coaster), for example) and the only guidance I could find was this. It seems, then, length is not an issue per se...

Image check: The logo has a suitable non-free use rationale and is probably okay and iron wolf image is a derivative but is fine.
Disambiguation: The tool says everything is fine.
Dead refs: Look okay (I'll check as I go through).
Quickfail issues: Can't see any tags, references cited, no evidence of edit-warring, can't say a roller-coaster is an 'ongoing event'– all looks fine.
I'll leave comments as I go:

There seems to be a problem with the co-ordinates, which appears to have duplicated?
The coaster got relocated so there are two different co-ordinates. I don't know why they are overlapping though.--Dom497 (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I've removed the 'display' parameter in the infobox for the first co-ordinates which seems to have fixed the problem. Meetthefeebles (talk) 20:53, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Genuine question: is RCDB a reliable source? I thought it was just a very well-researched fansite/fan-database? There is a tag on the Roller Coaster DataBase wikipage which claims that it might not be notable enough even to have a wiki-page? I'm also curious as to why the first sentence has two references? (If RCDB is reliable then surely that reference is enough?)
Oh it reliable. Its used on the Behemoth and Leviathan articles and any other roller coaster articles that are Good Articles. I also removed one ref.--Dom497 (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that too and so I am presuming it is okay. I am still not convinced, though, that it is much different to something like IMDB, which isn't reliable.Meetthefeebles (talk) 20:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Does the second sentence need a citation? It is a repetition of something contained in the main article which is cited. Per leadcite " Because the lead will usually repeat information that is in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material." I think it can be removed.
Fixed.--Dom497 (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Slight typo: "Swiss manufacture...". Should this be 'manufacturer'?
Fixed.
Actually, it still says 'manufacture'...I'll change it...done Meetthefeebles (talk) 20:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
In fact, that sentence doesn't quite read right as is. Suggest slight rewrite: perhaps "The roller coaster was the first built by Swiss manufacturer Bolliger and Mabillard."
Fixed. 
 Can I suggest that we take out the second 'roller coaster' from the sentence. The first mention renders the second redundant.Meetthefeebles (talk) 20:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 Done Themeparkgc  Talk  07:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Again, I'm not sure that the last sentence in the lead needs three citations as it appears to be a repetitive summary of more detailed info in the main article which is sourced there.
Fixed.
I would also note that ref.5 states that the coaster reached top speeds of 55mph and had a 90ft drop, which contradicts the figures stated, and I can't see anything in refs 6 or 7 to support the figures stated.
Don't understand what your trying to say, everything matches in the article.--Dom497 (talk) 18:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
It does now that you've changed the lead from 60mph to 55mph.Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
Ref.5 describes Iron Wolf as the "world's tallest and fastest stand up looping coaster". Suggest adding 'looping' to the description in the lead? I am not an expert on coasters, but I'd imagine the fastest stand-up coaster might be different to the fastest, stand-up looping one?
Not going to bother trying to calsiffy looping with non-looping. I just added looping.--Dom497 (talk) 18:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Looks much better. Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
I can't find anything in the three references cited to show that Z-Force was the 'Intamin only space diver ever built'. In fact, the RCDB page seems to indicate that three of them were built?
X-Force was the only of its kind. It got relocated 3 times. Take a look here and see the relocations section.--Dom497 (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
That page makes things a lot clearer. Suggest we link to this page instead? Meetthefeebles (talk) 21:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Suggest adding the height and speed record data to the main body rather than having it just in the lead? The lead should be a summary of the main body rather than the other way around.
 The speed of the ride is still a notable absentee from the main body of the article and should be added. Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 Done Both height and speed are now in the ride experience section. Themeparkgc  Talk  07:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
There is nothing in any of the five sources which shows that Milky Way and Mantis took the records held by Iron Wolf; all these sources show is that the two coasters are taller and faster respectively. How will the reader know that there were no coasters built before these to take Iron Wolf's records? These claims will need better sources, I'm afraid.
* Suggest red linking and unitalicising 'Milky Way'. If it once held a world record for a coaster, someone someday should create an article on the coaster.

 Done Themeparkgc  Talk  07:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done Themeparkgc  Talk  07:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done Themeparkgc  Talk  07:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I'm going to take a short break. Will continue shortly. Meetthefeebles (talk) 19:34, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Right, let's crack on...

That's much better :) Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:02, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Unlink Facebook per WP:OVERLINK.
Fixed.--Dom497 (talk) 17:56, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Again, ref.16 just takes me to a bunch of timeline photographs. It seems as if you have synthesized a primary source here and a reliable, secondary source would be much better.
I have added a better ref.--Astros4477 (talk) 18:44, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
* I think "at Six Flags Great America" is superfluous having spent the last paragraph talking about Iron Wolf at it's original home. Simply "Iron Wolf closed on..." would probably be fine.

 Done Themeparkgc  Talk  07:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
* I can't see anything in ref.5 which infers that the coaster was heading to a new home at Six Flags America– all it says it that the coaster was being shut down for permanent removal. I had a look around and this might help?

 Done Added that reference but also kept the one which was already there which provides evidence for the September 5 close date. Themeparkgc  Talk  08:04, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Both work well there, I agree. Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:02, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
* The whole section reads quite reads poorly and would benefit from a rewrite; unfortunately, the prose here is quite confused.  I'd suggest something like: "Iron Wolf closed on September 5 2011 and work began on preparing it for transport to its new location. The new owners planned to add the roller coaster to the Skull Island section of their park, but before the relocation could take place, the Skull Mountain ride at Six Flags America had to be closed and demolished to make room for the new attraction." or something along these lines.

 Done Themeparkgc  Talk  07:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I would be very surprised if ref.21 is a reliable source. It looks like the twitter page of a fanclub of some sort...
I couldn't find another source for that.--Astros4477 (talk) 19:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
* Rather than referring to 'unknown reasons', suggest a rewrite of the closing sentence in this section; "The official facebook page had stated that the ride would officially open on May 25 2012 but this was later changed to 7 June 2012", perhaps? I would also suggest that there must be a better, secondary source to confirm the opening of a new attraction than a Facebook status and perhaps this could be cited instead?

 Done Themeparkgc  Talk  08:30, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Another genuine question: are youtube videos such as that at ref.24 reliable sources? The guidance at WP:VIDEOREF isn't very clear on this point.
Yes.--Dom497 (talk) 18:07, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure that it is. It looks a little like WP:OR to me and it certainly doesn't seem like a secondary source of the type preferred by wikipedia.Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
I have added another ref in addition to the POV video,--Astros4477 (talk) 18:33, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Suggest blue linking pre-drop
Fixed.--Dom497 (talk) 18:07, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
This sentence: "Each train has seven cars with riders arranged four across in a single row for a total of 28 riders per train." is a word-for-word copy of the source material and needs to be rewritten to avoid possible copyright issues.
Fixed.--Dom497 (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I watched the video in ref.26 and saw nothing to indicate that Iron Wolf had a brown track originally or that the track was the length stated. This needs referencing.
Thats because it doesn't need a ref. Look at the picture in the history section of the article.--Dom497 (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough :) Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
I can't see anything in ref.18 or ref.27 to show that Iron Wolf had no theme. This also needs a reference to a reliable source.
I don't think this needs a ref. Most likely, a newspaper or other will not say that Iron Wolf had no theme. They just wouldn't comment on it.--Astros4477 (talk) 18:46, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
There is nothing in the video at ref.27 or ref.18 about the theme of the queuing area to the ride.
I have added a better ref.--Astros4477 (talk) 18:55, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
The last sentence could also benefit from a rewrite: I am not entirely sure how one "has to stand to oblivion"?
I just removed the sentance.--Dom497 (talk) 17:50, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I can see that you have begun to respond, so I'll give you the chance to look over these and make improvements. Meetthefeebles (talk) 20:44, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I've responded to the comments made by the nominator and will pop this on hold for a week to see if improvements can be made. Meetthefeebles (talk) 21:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
The article looks better for the changes made but there are outstanding issues so I'll keep the article on hold. Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

The article is being progressed (thanks to Themeparkgc for stepping in) but there are issues still outstanding and this one has been on hold for a while now. Can we get these wrapped up shortly as the week-long hold period has expired and this one can't really be kept on hold for too much longer... Meetthefeebles (talk) 11:02, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I think all the comments have been addressed. However, I might of missed something.--Astros4477 (talk) 00:58, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, Meetthefeebles sesm to be gone since December 2, so I'm gonna close this as passed. Nominators, I will update the article and talk page, but list it yourself at WP:GA. Regards. — ΛΧΣ21 22:03, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
I've listed it.--Dom497 (talk) 22:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Apocalypse (Six Flags America). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.sixflags.com/greatAmerica/rides/Iron_Wolf.aspx
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110928093302/http://www.coaster-net.com/news/1514-iron-wolf-leaving/ to http://www.coaster-net.com/news/1514-iron-wolf-leaving/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Apocalypse (Six Flags America). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120323001059/http://newssun.suntimes.com/news/7407158-418/new-coaster-coming-to-gurnee-six-flags-in-2012.html to http://newssun.suntimes.com/news/7407158-418/new-coaster-coming-to-gurnee-six-flags-in-2012.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:18, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

We should keep the name Apocalypse for the article until it closes  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.180.75 (talk) 05:17, 1 September 2018 (UTC)