# Talk:Endgame (Megadeth album)

Any references citing http://forums.megadeth.com as their source should be removed, because you can't view any such pages without registering as a member to the forum. Oddity- (talk) 03:34, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
However, it's in there and it's no crap. Every week more and more up-to-date information is released in the Megadeth Forum. I don't know why we should keep the information just inside the forum and don't bring it to an open platform where you don't have to register. Fairness versus sources? Erm... yes... -- Icaras (talk) 09:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Rationale has been provided for the Headcrusher image; a rationale that could be found on virtually any music-related page. I strongly protest the either inexcusable incompetence or fait accompli manipulation of the WP system to make deletion of images as simple as waiting to see if anyone cares, that this represents. You will remove the caption from the image; it is the least you can do. Anarchangel (talk) 22:12, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted a "review" of the album that I am pretty sure was vandalism.  For the record, part of the text was:

I’m getting slightly aroused just thinking about it. When all is said done, it’s a clincher. Even if you totally disagree with everything else I’ve said, you will soon succumb to the undeniable truth that Endgame is better than Death Magnetic and that, therefore, Megadeth in 2009 are better than Metallica in 2009. You can’t argue with science. And I am a scientist, aren’t I? You can tell by the way I sometimes wear glasses when I watch telly and I occasionally seem a bit awkward in social situations. I’m the heavy metal Johnny Ball. I’m King Diamond in a lab coat. I’ve just written three and a half thousand words of this rubbish. That’s how much I like Megadeth. Good day to you."
And the blog that was used as a reference for this text had been deleted by Google Blogs anyways.  But this sort of thing really didn't fit on a Wiki page. Oddity- (talk) 23:10, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

That is a review from a Metal Hammer reviewer, which even though is official, probably shouldn't be on Wikipedia (as much as I agree with it :P) - Scottzar (talk) 23:55, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

The second paragraph under the 'Singles' category seems to be quite unrelated for this article. Granted it is relevant to the articles about Dave Mustaine or even Megadeth, I removed it from the article about Endgame. If somebody really feels that it's still needed, here it is:

As of July 9th 2009, Dave Mustaine wrote an update their official website : "I am excited to tell you that we are starting a new thing here at Megadeth.com . . . its Megaman Radio! Er, well, not exactly Megaman radio, more like Megaman has his own radio show and you can soon listen to it!! My first goal is to get 100,000 listeners a week, and I am going to do stuff that the other guys won't, and that is go into a studio and take your live calls on air and they will be repeated whenever the program repeats itself. I am also going to find rare stuff to play for you, and old interviews of mine as well. I even think I am going to be able to get Shawn Drover to come on once in a while and give me the Full-on Thrash report."

Does anyone that is a member of the Megadeth fanclub have the album artwork for Endgame, and if, could you possibly put it up? A Powerful Weakness (talk) 20:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)A Powerful Weakness


### Sorry
As far as i know the endgame artwork shouldn't be posted yet... so i removed it. If I am mistaken please do repost it.
71.133.4.28 (talk) 04:06, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


### Current Image
The current image is very aliased.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mytomanen (talk • contribs) 08:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC) 


#### Update to higher res
I cannot update yet because i am not autoconfirmed. Here is the image of the best resolution for this album.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7793/79c435cbc813060d8e7c4be.jpg

00:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

No need for a hi res image here in Wikipedia, low res is enough. Conservoman (talk) 06:53, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have any background info about the story behind the album art is. or does anyone know what the art means
this is another album excluding vic rattlehead and is the first to have a border. im just wondering if anyone knows its meaning or how its relevant to the album title or songs in the album.
thanks, an answer to this would be a good contribution to the article for sure  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.236.186.233 (talk) 19:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC) 

As we can see with the Head Crusher page, it's constantly vandalised by random IPs. I assume that this upcoming album will be Heavy/Thrash (i don't know yet) but we might experience genre vandalising after the album release in this page as well. I think that after the first wave of vandalism (if it'll happen, which is likely) we should not wait (like we did with HC) and semi protect it immediately. Conservoman (talk) 19:45, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Funny how you were the one vandalizing the page after all when you accused many people of being inferior because they were "random IPs." You have the ideals of Wikipedia all wrong. - Scottzar (talk) 18:20, 29 August 2009 (UTC) 

Better to stick to discussion about the article and not about the IP vandals and sockpuppets who keep messing with the infobox of the song. If any IPs or socks tamper with the page they will be blocked. The Real Libs-speak politely 23:56, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
There shouldn't be too much worry over sockpuppets and vandals. Now that the album is out on the tiles and everyone has heard it there should be no pov push to scream that the album is a pure "thrash" album. Its just like every album the band has released since Rust... Primarily heavy metal with some hard rock and a few snippets of their thrash metal origins. Fill in the box now I guess... heavy metal, hard rock, thrash metal... in that order. As per always the genre listed on Allmusic is Pop/Rock. Bet that still won't stop the trolls from using it as a reference for something else. As a reference it can be negated now. The Real Libs-speak politely 01:26, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Leave the fact that the album has been leaked out of the article until it has been given a proper release. Letting others know that an album has been leaked can horribly impact the sales of the record 01:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC) Rattleglans  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rattleglans (talk • contribs)  
The album HAS leaked. That's the truth. Let wikipedia be uncensored. Deathmagnetic08 (talk) 07:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Rattleglans. - Scottzar (talk) 18:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

You agree with yourself? That's a good thing. As for the topic. The information can be added if it is referenced. GripTheHusk (talk) 19:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Wow dude, I'm not a sock puppet. I know Rattleglans from the Megadeth forums. I'm not him.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottzar (talk • contribs) 20:16, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Source: [Link removed.]  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.13.158.2 (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
See, this is what i mean. You just posted the damn link to the album leak. User:Rattleglans  02:30, 4 September 2009 (UTC)


### Yeah... that's funny
So... how the hell would I be skottzar. We both are involved in a discussion on Headcrusher(a megadeth song) and Endgame (a megadeth album)... and never have been logged in on the same IP... and i doubt even in the same country...
Fuck. This site is full of so much arrogance and bullshit. First of all mr. Deathmagnetic08, of course you won't give a shit about album sales... you are a fucking metallica fanboy. Wikipedia is a free service and shouldn't promote stealing music.  Everybody in wikipedia doesn't give a fuck about the content. They just care of its validity. 

That's the truth. Let wikipedia be uncensored.

Just because there is corn in my shit the day after i eat fucking corn, doesn't mean it needs to be in the "corn" page on wikipedia and let everyone know. Wikipedia has become such a negative service lately because you have people who have no interest in the subject they are editing, they just go along and defend themselves with hypocritic statements. User:Rattleglans  02:30, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Hey, whether censoring or uncensoring Wikipedia, accept that the album has leaked worldwide (Wikipedia isn't the only way to know this jajajajaja). The corn example is stupid, you don't even think the leak stuff is very relevant comparing the corn in your shit? Yeah, I accept that people should buy the album, but just think how the album is going to be sold being right now the most waited by Megadeth and seeing the amount or fans in the world that want to have the album, so wait to see how many copies are going to be sold, despite its leaking. Really, the leaking of the album isn't your problem and isn't going to affect you (anyway you going to hear it).
P.D.:Aclaring; whatever you going to response, you won't stop the leaking.

It's strange how the album is 44 minutes and 43 seconds. Does this have anything to do with the song 44 minutes? Somebody should do a research. 91.82.215.238 (talk) 17:24, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
The song is about the North Hollywood shootout Danhgilmore (talk) 12:05, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know maybe its a coincidence,It is pretty hard to plan every 11 songs to be the perfect length for that I searched it up but did not find anything nice question--BloodofHeroes (talk) 14:37, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Isn't heavy supposed to be before thrash? Conservoman (talk) 19:01, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Thrash is somewhat of a nickname for the genre Thrash Metal, so the answer is no. JRC3 (talk) 17:23, 27 February 2010

The album has been released in the UK, so why not replace this: "Endgame is the upcoming twelfth studio album" with "Endgame is the twelfth studio album"?Liquinn (talk) 14:56, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if this info is real or made-up to appear factual, but I haven't been able to find the source referenced, and information like this is on every Megadeth album page with no citation.  Citation might help if the site in question can be found...  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.119.236.119 (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC) 

Rise Against will soon release an album also titled Endgame. Move this article to Endgame (Megadeth album)?

I'll return to this after Rise Against has released their album. As it is most likely that Rise Against's album will be more successful and notable, it would only make sense though.Jasper420 04:36, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
I'm just going to do it.Jasper420 05:34, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Endgame (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Novice7 | Talk 04:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll start reviewing in one or two days. Sorry for the delay. Novice7 | Talk 14:57, 23 December 2010 (UTC)


### Lead
References in the lead are not encouraged. It's okay, still... Done
Billboard should be italicized. Done
The sentence about guitarist confuses me. Reword, maybe?
Done?

Remove the review by Slash. Twitter is not reliable. Done


### Writing and recording
Is it edition or episode? Done
Endgame was inspired by the movie Endgame written and directed also by Jones. – written and directed by Jones himself. Done
The next sentence is confusing. Why did he send a copy? Done
The album itself.. - remove "itself" Done
"The first preview of any song off Endgame was a six-minute video featuring Andy Sneap, describing the process of mixing the new Megadeth.." – what does this actually convey? Done
Re-worded it and made it more coherent.

Remove the website after track listing. Done
"Dave Mustaine has said about the album" – remove "has" Done
Songfacts in not reliable. Done
Add he added to the end of the quote instead of "he adds", and source it. Done


### Release and promotion
On May 10 - which year? Done
Again, TheLiveLine need not be mentioned. Done
Copy-edit may help. Done


### Singles
Move the section down (below Critical) Done
Lead and first need not be together. Just one is enough. Done
Remove the Single cover. Done
According to Roadrunner Records official. It is Roadrunner Records' official website. Done
Why go way over detailed like mentioning time? Remove them. Done
Music video is not an award. Also, place this sentence near the download sentence. Done
Needs some sources. Done
34 → thirty-four Done
No need to mention the number of nomination. Done


### Critical reception
Inside quotes use ( ' ) instead of ( " ). Done
Slash review should be removed. Twitter is not considered to be reliable. Done


### Track listing
Maybe sources? Done


### Charts
Reference should be placed near each chart. Placing all of them together is not encouraged. Done


### Personnel
Source? Done


### References and links
Many references should be fixed. Billboard refs should be work =Billboard and publisher =Prometheus Global Media. Also, online websites should not be italicized. I'm unsure about reliability of many websites.
Fixed, I believe.

Do not make ref titles all capital letters. Also, if work =Allmusic, then publisher =Rovi Corporation. Also, orf.at is good, use this link to cite.
No Dab links
A dead link Done
Maybe, you can include a sample of a song?
I have little understanding of audio file uploading, but if it's a major concern I could put out a notice for someone to upload one.

It's not necessary. Novice7 | Talk 09:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


### More comments
There is a Dead Link and redirects Here.
The way you've used webcite is not correct. See {{citeweb}} for the correct syntax.
Why is the VG lista ref title in italics?
Remove Discogs from the Japan Bonus Track citation.
Do not overlink Blabbermouth
Again, I'm unsure about many sources like Everydayjoe.com, Ultimate-guitar.com, Bnrmetal.com, Metalassault, Metalunderground etc. Are you sure they are reliable?
Remove the align center from Album chart table.


### Lead
Released on September 9, 2009, it was the second Megadeth album distributed through Roadrunner Records. – merge this with the first sentence and remove "it was the second Megadeth album" part.
Produced by Andy Sneap and Dave Mustaine, it entered the Billboard 200 at number 9, marking the band's tenth overall top 10 debut – reads as if the album entered the charts because Sneap and Mustaine produced it. Split to two sentences.
It was the first album featuring guitarist Chris Broderick, following prior guitarist Glen Drover's departure in 2008 and was the band's last studio album with bass guitarist James LoMenzo before Dave Ellefson replaced him in 2010. – Maybe rewrite as The album features Christ Broderick as the guitarist, and James LoMenzo as the bass guitarist.. Just summarize.
There are eleven tracks on the album – remove this part. Rewrite as The lyrics of the album were inspired by...
Move the third paragraph up and bring the now second para down.
and was thought of continuing the success from the band's 2007 album United Abominations. – remove this.
Also, couple the review from critics and chart together. See Breakout for an example.


### Writing and recording
On the September 10th episode of the Alex Jones Show – doesn't quite fit.
Jones suggested that the title and – did he choose the title?
who was also the producer of Megadeth's last album, → who also produced Megadeth's last album.
Roadrunner Records and Mustaine viewed the album as a success, and rehired Andy for duties on Endgame → which album?
You have undid many changes. If you don't fix them, I'll fail the article.

I'll post more. Novice7 | Talk 04:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Good! On Hold Novice7 | Talk 05:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

It's okay, but the prose could use some copy-editing. Many tense issues can be seen. Novice7 | Talk 09:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

I've fixed up all of the concerns to the best of my abilities. If further issues need to be fixed, I will address those as well. Bruce Campbell (talk) 19:33, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

You reverted back all the corrections. I'm sorry, but I have to fail it for the time being. Novice7 | Talk 04:54, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Endgame (Megadeth album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Petergriffin9901 (talk • message • contribs • count • logs • email)

Fail - This is resulting in a quick-fail. Far too many issues to outline now; the article is simply under-prepared
Prose are not strong; "Jones suggested that the title and cover of Endgame was inspired by the documentary Endgame, which was written and directed by Jones. Jones"
MoS violations everywhere -> Billboard should appear in italics (printed source). The article (just by looking the lead) has no structure. Just idea by idea, sentence by sentence. It reads like "written and produced" "debuted at" "performed at" "sold that"
A lot of unsourced content (the whole charting section)
Under-link
No ref for credits
The references are just in shambles. So many poorly formatted references and just plain unreliable ones; infowars.com, megahammer.com, roadrunners.com, everydayjoe.com
You need real improvement here buddy. Good luck next time.--CallMeNathan  • Talk2Me  09:16, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
The citations from Infowars & Prison planet were to note about Mustaine being on Alex Jones' radio show, and the origin of the title Endgame (in reference to a 'documentary' by Jones. Did you even check why they were there? 'Roadrunners.com' is supposed to be Roadrunnerrecords.com (the website for Megadeth's label, and someone must have entered it wrong. While you have raised several valid points, it really appears that you didn't closely look at anything here.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 14:13, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
In addition, I am not seeing a "Megahammer" listed as a source. Did you mean "Metal Hammer"? in which case, that is a British heavy metal news magazine, and is a reliable source in the context of heavy metal. The 'Everydayjoe' source is actually a re-reporting of a blabbermouth.net (Roadrunner records' online rock/metal news site) story, and can be replaced.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 14:17, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
I also might ask how exactly is the article "underlinked"? Aren't there plenty of wikilinks in there already?--L1A1 FAL (talk) 16:28, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry to say this, but all this shows is your lack of understanding of the GA criteria. Please see other recently promoted albums to understand what needs to be done to ensure a pass. See The Emancipation of Mimi.--CallMeNathan  • Talk2Me  19:31, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
so, you're just going to dismiss my concerns? Why don't you actually address them? PS, sorry about the accidental change on one of your other pages, I was checking to see if you were still active and bumped the rv button by mistake--L1A1 FAL (talk) 19:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
That is fine, no harm done. I am not dismissing your concerns, however, understand that the article was not ready for GAC and failed. I already told you once the article is re-nominated and GA-worthy, I would gladly re-review it, so you don't have to wait again.--CallMeNathan  • Talk2Me  19:39, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
You made no response to my specific concerns. Granted, you did bring up several things in your original failure explanation (and I have acted on some of them to the extent that I was able to quickly address them). Either way, I am concerned you did not really pay close enough attention to several things, and I will repeat what I said about infowars.com - it was being used in relation to an appearance by Mustaine on Jones' radio show, in which context it is suitable.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 19:46, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
A community re-assessment has been formally requested for this article.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 01:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any reputed people saying anything about the genre, so, with my own personal observations, I say, isn't there  more Heavy metal in Endgame than Thrash metal? The songs '44 Minutes', 'Bite the Hand', 'Bodies', 'Endgame' and 'How the Story Ends' all have Heavy metal bodies with the ends sped up, and categorized as Thrash metal. And 'This Day We Fight' is Thrash Metal, but heavy enough to be categorized as Heavy Metal as well, the inverse version of this being true for 'The Right to Go Insane'. Should I set this as 'Heavy metal, thrash metal'?117.195.60.29 (talk) 12:32, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Does it really matter that much? Both terms are there, so just leave it as is.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 13:17, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
It matters, because the primary genre is heavy metal, and the terms are to be placed in the order of their prominence. 'Headcrusher is listed as 'Thrash metal, heavy metal', and if you've heard it, you'll know that it is drastically different from 'How the Story Ends', which is rightly categorized as 'Heavy metal, thrash metal' with a heavy metal body, and just a small thrash metal bridge.2002:75C3:2F84:0:0:0:75C3:2F84 (talk) 11:36, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
Here's why it should be thrash metal only:

About.com - Endgame cements the legendary thrash band’s current relevancy.
AllMusic - Megadeth working primarily within their technical thrash comfort zone.
BBC Music - Mustaine and new guitarist Chris Broderick trading thrash riffs at a ridiculously high pace. 44 Minutes demonstrate their commitment to pushing the modern metal envelope, not through the employment of any flashy tricks or gimmicks, but by perfecting the thrash genre.
Consequence of Sound - Endgame is as perfect as any thrash record of the current generation if not more.
Metal Hammer -  this one is classic Megadeth, right down to its juddering thrash framework and Dave and Chris’s sabre-like guitar slashes.
PopMatters - “1,320’” is an old-school thrasher, with Mustaine’s trademark twisting riffs leading the way.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 22:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
This album does contain significant amounts of thrash metal, which these reviewers gave a more or less passing mention, but for one thing, they did not mention that this album was completely thrash metal, and for another, the amount of heavy metal present is significantly noticeable and fairly obvious to anyone; Wikipedia editors should be acquainted with the subject of their discussion, and not merely form long distance opinions based on just small segments of by-the-way comments that professionals make. 117.195.53.126 (talk) 10:29, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Metal Hammer and Consequence of Sound clearly categorize it as a thrash metal album, while the other four reviewers stated that the album contains significant amount of thrash. If you want to add heavy metal to the info box you must provide at least two references that wrote "Endgame is a heavy metal album" or "features heavy metal music". Six critics consist the majority of the critical reception and if your only argument is "the amount of heavy metal present is significantly noticeable and fairly obvious to anyone", I'm afraid that won't pass.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 21:17, 1 October 2013 (UTC)