# Talk:Isabella II of Jerusalem

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From Perry, Guy (2015). "Isabella II or Yolanda? The Name of the Queen of Jerusalem and Spouse of the Emperor Frederick II". Medieval Prosopography. 30. Board of Trustees of Western Michigan University through its Medieval Institute Publications: 85. ISSN 0198-9405. JSTOR 44946925.:

It is worth noting, too, that Wikipedia also calls her "Isabella II”—although it does note the name “Yolande”—in an article that contains significant errors at the time of writing.
This is what the article looked like in 2015. I imagine one significant error was having Andria, Italy, as her place of birth, which came from the 2012 edit by Deb; and it stayed there until the other day. Oops! Surtsicna (talk) 00:24, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

No, all I did in that edit was to correct the placement to comply with the Bio guidelines. It was there previously. Deb (talk) 07:21, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
You moved Andria from the place of death slot to the place of birth. This is not criticism, though. I just find it hillarious that we were mentioned. We were praised for getting her name right, at least! Surtsicna (talk) 09:51, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
There's no such thing as a place of death slot, that's the problem. That's why the places of birth and death shouldn't go between the brackets. It's terribly confusing, and evidently I was confused! But you're right - it's very funny. Deb (talk) 19:29, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
Ugh that's so annoying. He could have fixed it himself instead of bitching about it in a journal publication. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:13, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

By even mentioning it, he's made himself look silly - a student would have been told off for consulting Wikipedia. Deb (talk) 09:09, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
To be fair, he was merely examining the modern usage of Isabella vs Yolanda. I am in the process of expanding the article and still looking for the other "significant errors". Once I am done, I might send a link to him, perhaps get my name dragged in a future journal publication 😂 Surtsicna (talk) 09:31, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
Sounds like a brilliant idea. Deb (talk) 12:11, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
But check this out, @Deb: in this 2019 book Isabella is said to have been "an Apulian Italian like Frederick, born in Andria"! Do you care to guess where the author might have picked that from? 😂 Surtsicna (talk) 23:46, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
I normally try not to use sources that were published within the past five years (or longer). But it's becoming a problem, because so many authors are using Wikipedia indiscriminately and yet we need to use up-to-date sources! Deb (talk) 16:10, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Isabella II of Jerusalem/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Surtsicna (talk · contribs) 22:34, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 10:09, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct: 

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation: 

Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline: 

B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose): 

C. It contains no original research: 

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism: 

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic: 

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style): 

Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each: 

Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute: 

Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content: 

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions: 

Overall:
Pass or Fail: 

Image review

File:Death of Empress Isabella, queen of Jerusalem and Sicily.jpg: US PD tag is missing at Commons.
File:Hochzeit Friedrichs mit Isabella von Brienne.JPG: US PD tag is missing at Commons; I would clarify in the caption that the picture depicts their marriage in person. Borsoka (talk) 10:09, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
Fixed the tags. I was going to say that it is clear from the image that they are marrying in person, but I suppose an average reader should not be expected to conclude from the crown that the man holding her hand is Frederick! Surtsicna (talk) 09:07, 31 August 2025 (UTC)
Source review

Böhm: could you translate the title using the "translate=" function and add an identifier (such as OCLC)?
Murray: could you translate the book's title?
Waag: the Latin text should be italicised. Borsoka (talk) 10:09, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
Done. I abhor the look of the translation feature btw. So much italics, so many parentheses. Surtsicna (talk) 09:17, 31 August 2025 (UTC)
I could not resist. I added extra italics purely to maximize your suffering. Borsoka (talk) 11:46, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
You Saracen! Surtsicna (talk) 21:28, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
References 1, 4 checked.
Fix references 3, 14. Taking into account, that two of the four checked references does not verify the statements, please double check each reference and ping me when you are ready. Borsoka (talk) 03:44, 15 September 2025 (UTC)
Thanks, @Borsoka. 3 was another case of correct author, wrong year. 14 looks fine, though, other than being possibly redundant to 8. It says: "Queen Maria consented to most of the acta that he issued as king; and something like this continued between John and their daughter, Isabella II, once she was old enough to express her assent." 8 says much the same but gives the year too. Surtsicna (talk) 20:02, 15 September 2025 (UTC)
I have checked the others, Borsoka. The problem seems to arise only when I cite two works by the same author. Surtsicna (talk) 22:56, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
References 3, 14, 35 checked. Borsoka (talk) 02:44, 18 September 2025 (UTC)
Comments
How did you dare this? Have you heard of the Assassins? Borsoka (talk) 10:09, 29 August 2025 (UTC)

Oh, I will be sure to avoid balconies with suspicious railings 😁 Surtsicna (talk) 10:59, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
I would introduce the Kingdom of Jerusalem as a rump state in the first section's first sentence (as it is introduced in the article about her mother).
Done. A little shorter, though. We don't want the articles to look too alike. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
Isabella II's heir presumptive was Alice... I would rephrase: "The eldest, Alice was Isabella II's heir presumptive....", or something similar.
Rephrased. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
...the ruling countess... I would say "the dowager countess"/"the ruling dowager countess".
I am not sure that would be correct because there was no other countess. "Dowager" implies the existence of another. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
Clarify that the marriage by proxy took place in Tyre.
It didn't. It was celebrated in Acre. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
She was then taken to Tyre... The article about her mother says that the Cathedral of the Holy Cross was in Tyre.
It was. And another was in Acre. They were not very inventive when they named the cathedrals. It gave me a pause for thought too. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
The young empress was thereby isolated from her kin and supporters in the Latin East. I think her isolation and her husband's excommunication are not linked.
Let's make that clear. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
Isabella also issued the first charter... Do we have any further information about this charter?
We do. I have added a brief explanation of what it was about. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
Why 66 years later? 1291 - 1228 = 63. Borsoka (talk) 12:08, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
Her 1225 marriage is counted as the beginning. Reworded to clarify. Surtsicna (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
Have you got any more labors for me, Borsoka? Surtsicna (talk) 06:34, 9 September 2025 (UTC)

No, I have to complete the source review. Borsoka (talk) 15:19, 10 September 2025 (UTC)
Not to be a bore... but it would be lovely if we could complete this by 15 September so that I may nominate Maria and Isabella II for DYK. (They still have not angered me enough.) Surtsicna (talk) 10:30, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
I am glad to pass the article now. I hope it becomes part of your first featured topic! Borsoka (talk) 02:44, 18 September 2025 (UTC)