# Talk:Kings River (California)

How long are: 

Kings River (from its confluence of Middle and South Fork to end),
North Fork Kings River,
Middle Fork Kings River and
South Fork Kings River?
Please mention the source of the length values.  --84.138.112.197 (talk) 13:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The large map; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kings_River_Map.jpg needs correcting. 
1) Labeled "Helms Creek" is actually the NF Kings River. Wishon Res is on the NF Kings River.  Courtright Res is on the short Helms Creek. Both of these lakes make up The Helms (hydroelectric) Project, water is pumped uphill at night from Wishon to Courwright. --see Lake Wishon Wishon Dam Courtright Reservoir Courtright Dam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reservoirs_and_dams_in_California
2) Mill Creek probably should not be included on this map.  It is a seasonal creek, almost always dry. (Some bigger, but small permanent creeks have been omitted, such as Big Creek, as well as all other temporary creeks.) However, Mill Creek is politically (propaganda) important since many farmers want the public to think it's big so taxpayers will buy them another dam. (It is one of the un-damed Sierra creeks, and occasionally "floods." So is this a natural watershed map, or political propaganda map? --see Google Earth, zoom in, the "creek bed" is full of homes and difficult to see and to follow, no riparian habitat. 
3) The North Fork Distributary eastern half is wrong, (should be erased) and it should also be drawn small like the other canals in the area.   It is shown separating from the Kings just below the Friant-Kern Canal (probably where the Consolidated Canal is) but it actually separates much farther down, well south of Riverdale. (And also a little north too.) The so-called North Fork Distributary is a series of artificial canals and sloughs always dry except when a series of weirs are switched on in rare flood years in order to divert water away from the now dry and heavily farmed Tulare Lake Bed, north into the San Joaquin River and the sea.  North Fork flow can be routed back to Kings River South Fork using Crescent Weir and Crescent Bypass. Flow in excess of the downstream water supply needs in the Kings River is normally first diverted into the North Fork which then flows into Fresno Slough, Fish Slough, and James Bypass, which together constitute the Kings River North channel system. Because some of those canals and sloughs are miles apart, it's partially as much concept as river or canal.  --see: Tulare Lake Basin Hydrology and Hydrography: A Summary of the Movement of Water and Aquatic Species 12 April 2007 
http://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPURL.cgi?Dockey=P1002E2I.txt page 88
Kings River Diversions and Weirs
4) I wonder if the natural historic terminus of the Kings River, the now dry Tulare Lake shouldn't at least be hinted at? It was once the largest lake outside of the Great Lakes, a wetland of HUGE economic and environmental importance.  Only when it rarely  flooded did it spill north into the sea via the Fresno Slough. 
Finally, a note of caution. This region is home to the hugely powerful Kings River Conservation District, their bosses the KRWA, and to JG Boswell Corp, the largest farmer in the world. They have a near monopoly on information and propaganda coming out of that region.  As the Fresno Bee wrote in 1999-10-31: "If it wanted to, the J.G. Boswell Co. could boast of a political prowess that changed California. The company's clout and dexterity helped build dams, bury canals and win precedent-setting fights in the nation's highest court."  -- also see The King Of California: J.G. Boswell and the Making of A Secret American Empire,  By Mark Arax, Rick Wartzman 2005 - Biography & Autobiography - 576 pages
Doug Bashford--68.127.85.141 (talk) 03:46, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

A point of clarification I think might be important to include:
Groundwater subbasins in the lower Kings River Watershed (as defined by the Department of Water Resources' Bulletin 118 http://www.water.ca.gov/groundwater/bulletin118/update2003.cfm) are the Kings Basin and Tulare Lake Basin.  The two basins are roughly split by the Kings River - the Kings to the north and the Tulare Lake to the south.  The City of Hanford lies within the Tulare Lake Basin, not the Kings.
---H2olocalcontrol---  — Preceding unsigned comment added by H2olocalcontrol (talk • contribs) 20:12, 28 July 2011 (UTC) 

"Further downstream, the Friant-Kern Canal intersects and diverts water off the Kings River southwards towards Bakersfield.[6] The purpose of the 152-mile (245 km) channel, which starts on the San Joaquin River and ends at the Kern River, is to provide irrigation water to farms on the east side of the southern San Joaquin Valley. Construction work on the canal lasted from 1945 to 1951.[15] A second dam on the Kings River, the Rogers Crossing Dam, was proposed for construction in the late 1980s, upstream from Pine Flat. At a planned 600 feet (180 m) high, it would have backed water up through the foothills for 12 miles (19 km). Environmental concerns have halted the project thus far.[16]"
The Friant-Kern Canal does in fact intersect the Kings River, but waters are NOT diverted off of the Kings southwards towards Bakersfield.  However, waters can and are diverted off of the Friant-Kern INTO the Kings River just before the Friant-Kern is piped underneath the Kings River on its way south to Kern County.
Finally, a note of caution.  Mr. Bashford obviously has an axe to grind, so you'll need to pick out some of the quality facts he's posted from the opinionated conspiracy theory rhetoric he has also injected here.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by H2olocalcontrol (talk • contribs) 20:26, 28 July 2011 (UTC) 
--H2olocalcontrol--  — Preceding unsigned comment added by H2olocalcontrol (talk • contribs) 20:19, 28 July 2011 (UTC) 

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Kings River (California)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 16:52, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Happy to review this. ceranthor 16:52, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Lead
"132.9-mile (213.9 km)-long[2]" - the hyphen makes this less than aesthetically pleasing... any way to get rid of it or rephrase?
Changed to "132.9-mile (213.9 km) river" - does that look OK? Shannon [ Talk ] 17:26, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"Inhabited for thousands of years by the Yokuts and other native groups," - Not sure inhabited works with the river itself, maybe rephrase as the river valley?
Changed to "river basin" Shannon [ Talk ] 17:26, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Link waterfowl
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 17:26, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"The river was named by the commander of a Spanish military expedition in 1806," - worth mentioning his name if known, I think
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 17:26, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"Logging and livestock grazing inflicted significant environmental damage in the upper parts of the river," - I think the construction is usually "inflicted on" or "inflicted upon"
Fixed. Shannon [ Talk ] 17:26, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"The Kings has a long history of water development, going back to the mid-19th century when farmers made their first attempts to irrigate with Kings River water, continuing through the early 1900s as Tulare Lake and its surrounding wetlands were diked, drained and reclaimed for agriculture, and culminating in the 1950s with the construction of Pine Flat Dam, which tamed the river's seasonal floods." - too long; cut into two sentences
Done, hope it flows better now.
"impounded" - not obvious to a layperson - could you use a simpler word or link to meaning?
Chidgk1 (talk) 07:02, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

One of the best leads I've ever read for a GAN - you really have a knack for engaging, flowing prose! :)
All done. Thanks, I'm glad you like it! Shannon [ Talk ] 17:26, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Course
I'd link Sierra Nevada and explain what it is, since the name is not immediately obvious to a lay reader, especially one unfamiliar with the geography of the western US
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 17:30, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Confused about the bolding, since the forks all appear to have their own articles
I think it makes the section easier to read, or is that a WP:MOS violation? Shannon [ Talk ] 17:30, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"It flows south, then west through the Cedar Grove section of Kings Canyon, a glacial valley with high granite cliffs and a meadow floor which has been compared in appearance to Yosemite Valley.[7][8]" - comma before which
Clarified the wording. Shannon [ Talk ] 17:30, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"some of the wilder and more inaccessible parts of the park" - "wilder"? What does that mean?
Reworded sentence to flow more clearly. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:32, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
"With mountains on either side towering more than 8,000 feet (2,400 m) above the river, Kings Canyon is both deeper and narrower than the Grand Canyon.[12]" - any prominent (I mean well-known in this case; no geography pun intended) mountains
I tried changing the sentence, do you think the new version reads awkward? Shannon [ Talk ] 17:53, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
It does a bit. Maybe flip it so the "with..." part is the second half of the sentence? ceranthor 17:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
" the Kings River flows swiftly westward for about 30 miles (48 km) through a canyon more than 5,000 feet (1,500 m) deep." - the river is that deep? Sort of confused by this sentence
Reworded slightly. Hope it flows better now. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:30, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
" and flows mainly through the Sierra National Forest. It is dammed at Wishon Reservoir, which serves as the lower reservoir for the Helms Pumped Storage Plant, one of the biggest pumped-storage hydroelectric plants in California. The North Fork passes through several other hydro plants before it joins with the Kings River. The main Kings then flows into Pine Flat Lake, the large reservoir created by Pine Flat Dam, which can store up to 1,000,000 acre feet (1.2 km3) of water. Constructed in 1954, Pine Flat Dam provides flood control, irrigation and hydroelectricity for the southern San Joaquin Valley." - this is all unreferenced!
Added several citations. Shannon [ Talk ] 17:39, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
"The entire upper course of the Kings River is in Fresno County; in the Central Valley, the Kings River also flows through parts of Tulare County and Kings County." - likewise, needs a ref
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 22:14, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
"which serve both irrigation and flood control purposes." - nitpick, but I'd switch "which" to "that" here
Fixed. Shannon [ Talk ] 17:53, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Watershed
"Its average flow of 1,791,000 acre feet (2.209 km3) " - is this the unit used for flow? I'm thinking about flow in more of a physics way
Clarified to mean annual flow/volume. Shannon [ Talk ] 17:56, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Worth linking uplift (Tectonic uplift)
Linked Shannon [ Talk ] 17:56, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Don't double link Pleistocene
Fixed
"The "overflow area"" - not sure quotes are needed here if you're otherwise paraphrasing
Fixed
"since then due to intensive pumping for irrigation.[38]" - Don't need "then" in here; move "since" in front of "been gradually declining"
Fixed Shannon [ Talk ] 18:23, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Ecology
Link riparian zone
"California oak woodland consisting mainly of blue and black oak occur" - noun and verb don't agree; did you mean woodlands?
Link introduced species
All done Shannon [ Talk ] 18:24, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Early history
"The Kings River watershed is traditional Yokuts territory" - before mentioning this, I'd add a topic sentence about indigenous populations inhabiting the area... maybe switch the bit after the semicolon to the front?
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 22:13, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
"riparian zone" can be unlinked, assuming you link it at its first mention in the body above
Done. Shannon [ Talk ] 22:13, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
"US Senate" - in other places, you use "U.S.", please keep it consistent
All done Shannon [ Talk ] 06:19, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
More to come once these are addressed. ceranthor 15:01, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I'll start editing tomorrow, but may take a couple of days since I'm currently moving. Shannon [ Talk ] 06:53, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
No rush, and thanks for the heads up. ceranthor 12:51, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Settlement of the Kings delta
"The Kings River area initially did not appeal to farmers," - Weirdly phrased, imo
Rephrased the sentence. Shannon [ Talk ]
"where Visalia is today.[71]:106" - again, would rephrase slightly (also made me think of Visalia Ransacker/GSK :/)
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 06:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
"The Great Flood of 1862 and another in 1868 destroyed most of the early settlements along the Kings River, and also wiped out the cattle ranching economy of the San Joaquin Valley, precipitating an economic shift to farming." - needs citation
Added reference. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:08, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
"and larger and more permanent water supply system were built.[71]:106" - missing an "s" for "systems"?
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 06:25, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
"the Boswell family farm remains the largest privately owned farm in the world.[73]" - is it still the same size?
Clarified the present size of the farm. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:36, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Something worth noting for quotation consistency: one example in this section is different from another: 'Farming cooperatives or "colonies",' vs. '"perpetual rights to use of storage subordinate only to flood control purposes,"[77]' - which style do you intend to use throughout? stick to that, I think both are acceptable on wikipedia
By this, do you mean having the citation placed directly after the quotation? Shannon [ Talk ] 02:49, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
Modern uses
"165 megawatt Jeff L. Taylor Pine Flat Power Plant" - is this able to be converted to another unit? no big deal if not, obviously
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 23:12, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
"Power generation at Pine Flat Dam is incidental, meaning it is governed by demand for irrigation water or flood control requirements rather than the load on the power grid. There was a proposal to add one more dam on the Kings River near Piedra, which would create a small afterbay reservoir below Pine Flat Dam, allowing the power station to be used for peaking purposes while regulating the flow downstream for irrigation. Due to environmental concerns and a poor cost-benefit ratio this project was never built." - citation?
Added references. Shannon [ Talk ] 23:22, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
"more than 2 billion kilowatt hours of energy.[92]" -same as above note on conversion
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 23:12, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
" constructed the 1,212 megawatt " - same as above
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 23:12, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
"Pine Flat Dam, holding up to 1,000,000 acre feet (1.2 km3) of water, is the primary flood control facility in the Kings River Basin. The winter and spring flood control reservation is 475,000 acre feet (0.586 km3), although the reservoir can be drawn down further depending on the size of the Sierra snowpack." - citation?
Added ref. Shannon [ Talk ] 19:55, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
"U.S. Army Corps of Engineers" - was already linked earlier in the body of the article; no need to link again?
Done Shannon [ Talk ] 23:22, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
"The key flood control facility on the lower river is the Island Weir and Army Weir complex, which control the water flow into the north and south forks of the Kings River, respectively. Flood flows up to 4,750 cubic feet per second (135 m3/s) are sent north; flows of up to 1,200 cubic feet per second (34 m3/s) above that level are diverted south into the Tulare Lake bed, and flows above that combined level are sent north." - citation?
Added reference. Shannon [ Talk ] 23:22, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
Recreation
"Although there are few natural obstructions along the lower Kings, there are several diversion weirs that pose a hazard to boaters and must be portaged." - citation?
Added references. Shannon [ Talk ] 02:43, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
References
What makes [1] a reliable source?
Replaced with more reliable source. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:28, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
What happened to the formatting in this ref, ref 39 (reads "www.calwater.ca.gov/Admin_Record/C-064379.pdf")?
Fixed. Shannon [ Talk ] 00:51, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
What makes "Apperson, Eileen (2012). Pattern of the Land: The Search for Home in an Altered Landscape. iUniverse. ISBN 1-46978-221-9." a reliable source?
Replaced with a more reliable source. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:03, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
What makes "Gorenfield, William (Jun 1999). "The Tule River War". Historynet. Retrieved 2018-03-24." a reliable source?
Replaced with a more reliable source. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:03, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
"Woeste, Victoria Saker (2000). The Farmer's Benevolent Trust: Law and Agricultural Cooperation in Industrial America, 1865-1945. University of North Carolina. ISBN 0-80786-711-X." - UNC Press? Or just published by UNC?
Yeah, it's UNC Press- I just changed it. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:03, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Earwig's tool: the source and article text are far too close here: [2]
Looks like a copy-paste of source from the original version of the article. I reworded it so it should check out now. Shannon [ Talk ] 23:28, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
Otherwise, Earwig checks out
Images
Images check out
Good work so far. ceranthor 18:11, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Shannon1: Any update on the progress here? ceranthor 13:18, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
I've been going through them gradually. Pretty slow due to classes, but I'll probably be done soon. Shannon [ Talk ] 02:17, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
@Ceranthor: I think all the points have been addressed, though there are still a few questions left here and there. Thoughts? Shannon [ Talk ] 01:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
@Shannon1:
Links - if there are articles consider linking "alluvial","igneous","sedimentary","metamorphic","granitic","cirque","alfalfa","levee","afterbay" (or remove or explain "afterbay" as too technical?),portage". Suggest unlinking the "Mill Creek" redlink.
Chidgk1 (talk) 07:59, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Done, and replaced "afterbay" with "regulating". Shannon [ Talk ] 04:38, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Flood control - as a newcomer to the subject of the article the flood control seems quite complex from the text. Not sure if it is really complex but a diagram might make it clearer.
Chidgk1 (talk) 08:16, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

I'll work on a map for that section. It is a pretty complex system! Shannon [ Talk ] 07:45, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps add a sentence or 2 on future of river? e.g. will climate change affect the snowmelt, flooding and/or ecology? excessive tourism pressures? demand for monthly or seasonal hydro energy storage? 
Chidgk1 (talk) 08:32, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

I added a paragraph on climate change in the Watershed section. I may add more if more info turns up. Shannon [ Talk ] 04:35, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
@Shannon1: sorry for the delay. Will post final comments/thoughts today. ceranthor 16:37, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Ready to pass this, but I think Chidgk1 raises a few good points above. Let me know once you've seen them all, ​ and then we can move forward from there. ceranthor 12:36, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
@Ceranthor: Just letting you know, I've addressed all the comments except for the flood control diagram. I'm still figuring out how best to represent that on a map. Shannon [ Talk ] 01:05, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! Passing, as I don't think that should hold it back. ceranthor 12:45, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks so much -- I'll try and add that final bit as soon as I can. Shannon [ Talk ] 15:59, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

To add to this article: a map that gives readers their bearings for where, exactly, this river is located within the state of California. Why isn't such a map already included in the article, it's something so basic that any reader would wish to know right off the bat? 173.88.246.138 (talk) 18:46, 6 February 2021 (UTC)