# Talk:Kenwood, St George's Hill

I'm quite surprised that the gentleman who posted this picture did not link this page to it. Zephyrad 17:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I am pleased on the one hand, that someone apparently has gotten their hands on a brochure that gives some history of Kenwood, and has added some details from it. I am sorry, however, that this person does not appear to have much writing experience or sense of style, and appears to have added these details at random, while scrambling what was already here. Material has also been deleted or altered for no good reason, other than it may not agree with the brochure. There is now more history of the St. George's Hill estate on this page, than on the St. George's Hill page, from where I am sitting, and the present article is a MESS. I would like to see someone else take a crack at saving it; I am concerned that if I do a cleanup at this time, it will be seen as biased, and reverted back to the mess it now is. Zephyrad 19:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The entry relates to Kenwood, St George's Hill and not simply John Lennon's time there. The house has a longer history than that, and other noteworthy people have lived there. References to the St. George's Hill estate, where Kenwood is situated, are entirely valid. If anyone wants to add to the page for St. George's Hill then they can, of course, do so. The comments about "writing experience" and "style" are highly subjective and unhelpful. As for deletions, a picture was removed which was supposed to be Kenwood, but wasn't. This counts as a "good reason" for removal. (The picture features in the Bob Spitz biography of the Beatles, and is typical of the many mistakes in that book). Other alterations are in line with Wikipedia best policy - eg not using euphemisms such as "made love".  A lot of new information has been added, but nothing has been "scrambled". I agree that the page needs work, specifically to be organised into sub-headings, fully sourced and to have an accurate picture included. I intend to get round to this within the next few weeks, but if Zephyrad or anyone else wants to have a go in the meantime, then great - that is what Wikipedia is all about - but the golden rule, as always, is don't contribute unless you are happy to see your work edited and altered beyond recognition. The article as it stands is perhaps a little untidy (hence the need for subheadings), but is certainly not a "mess" and does not need "saving" - just improving. I come back to the main point which seems to have been forgotten in the above - this is an entry for Kenwood, the house itself, and not just one of its (very temporary) residents. 84.67.57.155 18:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
QED. Zephyrad 23:46, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, fac ut vivas. 84.67.57.155 07:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Have now added sub-headings and rearranged text to fit same. Will do sources soon if no-one else does. Still needs accurate photo/photos. 84.67.57.155 19:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I have added 2 photos taken by Simon Harper, who was kind enough to grant permission for his work to be used here. I will have a stab at sources next week.Brownhouse 16:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
A start has now been made on the Notes section. I will do more when I can, but anyone else out there want to help? It's pretty tedious work!86.148.44.120 12:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Good work, whoever it was who put them up! (Have you actually been to Kenwood?) I have taken the liberty of moving them so that they now illustrate the relevant parts of the article - hope you approve!Brownhouse1 20:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I have re-sized the pictures to make them fit better.86.153.33.81 08:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

After a cursory look, I think that this could be a GA article.--andreasegde (talk) 19:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I have moved some references to the end of sentences, and have moved and changed photo sizes.--andreasegde (talk) 19:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The real coordinates are: latitude: 51.35552569021039 - longitude: -0.4463839530944824. How can I change them?--andreasegde (talk) 20:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Done it.--andreasegde (talk) 11:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

This article has passed the GA noms, further suggestions for improvement would be to expand the article to reflect the houses current use, and its architectural significance. If you  feel that this review was in error feel free to take it to WP:GA/R. Thanks. Tarret talk 14:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I thank thee kindly.--andreasegde (talk) 15:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

From what I can gather, "Zephyrad" (if that is your real name) pops up on these pages from time to time to criticise and leave his little cleanup headers without actually contributing anything of any worth. If you (Zephyrad) feel one or two things need changing, then change them! Then we can see if we agree. You might be right, but how can anyone know? Looking at this discussion page, you left a message here at one point about the Kenwood page needing "saving". (Lord help the Kenwood page!) Yet, looking at the history bit, when the same information was moved around, headings and photos added - lo and behold - good article status!
Climb down off your cloud and actually contribute something. And don't try any Latin, son, I'll eat yer for breakfast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.57.223 (talk • contribs) 

Check the article's history... and my history of contributions in general, before you make such accusations. According to your own (anonymous) edit history, this is the first article you have EVER EDITED, so I'd say you're not in much position to speak. If it isn't, I have to wonder why you're not using an established account. (Could you have gotten into trouble in the past?) In either case, I'd say check out WP:NPA before you go pointing ANY more accusing fingers, or slinging any more sour grapes.
As to the cleanup tag... this article is about Kenwood, not the history of the St. George's Hill estate, yet there is a whole paragraph of St. George's Hill history, which would go better on that page. There are also several small numbers represented as numerals (3, 6, 5, 2) when style norms call for these to be spelled out as words. Internal topics jump back and forth (descriptions of the interior are found scattered throughout the article), instead of being condensed into one section. The history of "Hey Jude" and what happened to Lennon and Ono when they stayed at other places does not involve Kenwood, yet it is present in this article; TMI, IMO. There are more examples, but this should illustrate my point adequately.
Why don't I "just make the changes" myself? - Because I am calling for outside persons to look, see and do. From what I have seen on certain articles, if I were to make the changes personally, folks like you would probably just roll them back... because they have a vested interest, and/or a personal grudge. Which point you have just proven for me. (Thanks for that.) My guess is somebody's buddy approved this article for GA status, in its present form; I'd like to see an objective review made of it, by someone who does not contribute (or try to) primarily to Beatles-related articles. (As the song goes... "Are you one of them?") Zephyrad (talk) 02:41, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Let's start typing IN CAPITALS. So you've had problems on other pages like this? Surprise, surprise. I have checked your contributions, which is why I left these comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.159.159 (talk • contribs) 

Zephyrad comments and my answers:
"a whole paragraph of St. George's Hill history, which would go better on that page."

A whole paragraph? So it couldn't be on both pages? Why not?
"several small numbers represented as numerals (3, 6, 5, 2)" 

I only found four numbers that needed changing. It wasn't that hard to do...
"Internal topics jump back and forth (descriptions of the interior are found scattered throughout the article)"

The interior changed was changed many times, according to who was living there.
"The history of "Hey Jude" does not involve Kenwood"

This is laughable - read the article. McCartney composed the song on the way to the house.
"what happened to Lennon and Ono when they stayed at other places does not involve Kenwood"

Lennon and Ono moved out, and then back in. Where were they in the meantime? Standing outside the front gate?
"My guess is somebody's buddy approved this article for GA status"

This is nothing short of slander, and you should be ashamed.
"who does not contribute (or try to) primarily to Beatles-related articles."

That is silly.
"As the song goes... 'Are you one of them?'"

I think a trip down conspiracy lane has been made here.
--andreasegde (talk) 15:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
BTW, I have asked  H1nkles, who is a member of the GA reassessment team, to look at this article.--andreasegde (talk) 16:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Well said, Andreas.  —Preceding comment added by Brownhouse1 (talk • contribs) 19:09, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

The research of Mavis Swenarton (detailed on the Kenwood blog) has shown that the house is not a Tarrant house. It was designed by architect T.A. Allen, and built by a local firm called Love and Sons. The relevent sections should be changed to reflect this. The only bit of Kenwood with a Tarrant connection was the original external garage, built by Tarrant's company a few years after the house itself had been constructed. This garage was demolished in the mid-90s, so the house now has no existing connection with Tarrant.
Brownhouse1 (talk) 18:57, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Can you find a good reference for that?--andreasegde (talk) 22:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
There is Swenarton's 1992 publication "Inventory of Tarrant Built Houses On St George's Hill". The Kenwood information is contained in the chapter "Other Notable Houses Built On St George's Hill Between 1910 And 1938". The Surrey History Centre has copies of the research upon which she based the publication (specifically record number 7688/3/12 – Part 2 – 1/26). I'm going to give it a couple of weeks, and if there are no objections, I'll change the section (assuming no-one else does so first). (Brownhouse1 (talk) 17:19, 19 November 2009 (UTC))
Have now made the changes re Tarrant. I've removed most of the Tarrant references, because they aren't relevent now that the house has been shown to be not by him. T A Allen's original plans can be viewed on the Kenwood blog. There was also no games room on the ground floor during Lennon's time - this area was then a large garage, as further plans on the above blog prove. Brownhouse1 (talk) 23:46, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Kenwood, St George's Hill/CommentsTalk:Kenwood, St George's Hill/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Last edited at 13:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC).
Substituted at 21:07, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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There's a nice FT article here with a well observed stroll dans la maison No Swan So Fine (talk) 12:48, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

I've often heard it said and seen it written that thsi house was once owned by Kenneth Wood, founder of the Kenwood food mixer company Ken Wood (manufacturer). Not true! It's just a myth! Johnalexwood (talk) 13:32, 7 February 2022 (UTC)