# Talk:Ellie Cole

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ellie Cole/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Canadian Paul (talk · contribs) 16:08, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
I'll take a look at this one, hopefully later tonight. One thing I can tell immediately is that all those one-two sentence paragraphs in the "Career" section are seriously going to disrupt the article's flow. I would recommend combining them where possible/appropriate to ensure that the section reads like a narrative rather than a list of facts. Also please note per the toolbox on the side that there is a disambiguation llink for S13 that should be rectified. Canadian Paul 16:08, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link for S13 rectified. --Irenah (talk) 06:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): 

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 

It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 

It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 

Overall:
Pass/Fail: 

Comments:

Per WP:LEAD, the lead cannot introduce facts that are not present in the body of the article. Currently "She is the captain of the Australian Paralympic Team and mentors other young athletes" is not anywhere in the body and would require proper citations.

Lead re-checked. Ensured information is reinstated in the article or not included and proper citations are used.--Irenah (talk) 10:54, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

The infobox image requires a caption, even if it's just something along the lines of "Ellie Cole, picture in Year X" or "Ellie Cole in her 2008 official Australian Olympic portrait" or something similar.

Caption added.--Irenah (talk) 10:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

The fact that she is a member of the Casey Tigersharks club requires a citation.

Citation has been added, but not sure as to whether it can be cited within a table? --Irenah (talk) 06:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Per WP:DATED, the introduction to the "Personal" section needs to qualify the details by their date of relevance (ie. "As of 2012...") Also, does that little introduction need to be its own section? Seems like it would fit better in the flow of the narrative somewhere in another section; it's odd to introduce her height, weight, club, and residence before the reader knows anything about her. Also, I think that breaking the "Personal" section into subsection is unnecessary, as both of the subsections are very short and it adds more to the disruption of the flow.

The personal section has been written in chronological order, and 'As of 2012' has been replaced with 'currently'.
Club and residence has conjoined into more appropriate parts of the section, height and weight has been excluded due to the inability to place with prose within the article.
Information has been combined into one section rather than with subheadings.  --Irenah (talk) 06:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Under "Early life," "She was diagnosed with sarcoma." Aside from the fact that the pronoun makes it unclear whether it is referring to Ellie or Brittany, this is just a sentence fragment/factoid without a connecting detail such as when she was diagnosed.

I have changed this to specify that it was Ellie Cole who was diagnosed with Sarcoma. --Irenah (talk) 09:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I have also expanded the sentence to be more descriptive.--Irenah (talk) 09:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

The major problem, as noted above, is the "Career" section, which is nothing more than a list of successive facts about things that happened to Cole. They need to be combined and bridged together to create a sense of narrative flow. For example, the first couple of sentences could become "Cole is classified in the S9 category in swimming due to her amputation, a classification that also includes swimmers who have joint restrictions in one leg and those with double below-knee amputations. She began competitive swimming in 2003 and, at the 2006 IPC Swimming World Championships in Durban, South Africa, she won her first international medal in the sport, silver in the women's 100 m backstroke S9 event." So my point here is that not only do these small paragraphs need to be combined, but it's more than a matter of simply deleting the line breaks. The need to be combined and worked together in order to present a story.

The facts have been bridged together and joined in order to 'present a story' with more prose. --Irenah (talk) 10:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

The "Career" section has two fact tags that need to be rectified.

The two fact tags have been fixed - --Irenah (talk) 06:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Is the block quote in the "Training" section necessary? It doesn't really add anything to the prose or encyclopedic information and will become quickly outdated information. Since, per Wikipedia:Non-free content, we should limit our use of non-free material (such as direct quotes), I'm wondering what the rationale is here for including it.

The block quote has been erased. --Irenah (talk) 10:40, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

The prose here is a big problem, but I think that a careful effort could fix it. To allow for these issues to be addressed I am placing the article on hold for a period of up to a week. I'm always open to discussion so if you think I'm wrong on something leave your thoughts here and we'll discuss. I'll be checking this page at least daily, unless something comes up, so you can be sure I'll notice any comments left here. Once these concerns have been dealt with, I will review the article and point out additional changes needed to comply with Wikipedia's Good Article criteria. Canadian Paul 20:27, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a second look at it now. Canadian Paul 14:00, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Much improved. Here are a a few new points:
References #1 and 10 need to be properly formatted like the rest of the citations because, if those links went dead, then there would be no way to verify the material that they cite because it's impossible to tell what the sources are.

Referencing fixed. (talk) 00:44, 30 June 2012 (UTC)--Irenah (talk) 00:45, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Under "Career", second paragraph, "After breaking the world record with a time of 1:04:06, she participated in the FINA championships in Rio de Janeiro where she finished third five times." You don't necessarily need to list every event that she finished third in here, but more detail, even a general sampling of the types of events she competed in, would be very useful here.

I have further clarified the events she participated in and added more detail. --Irenah (talk) 02:16, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Under "Recognition", "During her time at Frankston High School Cole received a Debbie Flintoff-King award for the most outstanding sporting achievement from the institution three years in a row." Yes, I know, it's pretty obvious but per WP:OBVIOUS you should list what that "outstanding sporting achievement" was (if it's explicitly listed in sources of course)

I have specified why she was awarded the Debbie Flintoff-King award. --Irenah (talk) 02:38, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

The fact that "She is the captain of the Australian Paralympic Team" in the lead is still absent from the body of the article.

This information now comes under the training subheading. --Irenah (talk) 00:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Getting closer, a significant improvement on what was there before. Canadian Paul 14:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
Almost there, just one final clarification:

Under "Career", second paragraph, "The same year Cole participated in the IPC Swimming World Championships in Rio de Janeiro in the 100 m backstroke, 400 m freestyle, four 100 m freestyle events and the 200 m individual medley where she broke a world record with a finishing time of 1:04:06 and won five bronze medals." It's probably not necessary to list which events she won the medals in (it's in the infobox anyways), but this sentence should clarify the event in which she broke the record. Canadian Paul 14:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Fixed by disentangling the sources. As far as I can tell, she didn't actually break any records at those games. Graham87 03:33, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay, time for another (hopefully final) look then. Canadian Paul 21:23, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, I believe that this article now satisfies the Good Article criteria and I will therefore be passing it as such. As an aside, I think that this is definitely a premier example of how collaboration really made a difference in improving article quality, so congratulations to all those involved and thank you for your hard work. Canadian Paul 21:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

please do not delete this page for this is an in the works page about a REAL paralympian who achieved silver in 2008
and her name is even mentioned on an INTERNAL wikipedia page  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_at_the_2008_Summer_Paralympics
i believe she has the earned the right to be an important Australian athlete. 
i shall be editing and updating this page when i have the time and materials to add — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.26.204.249 (talk) 16:54, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Great I'm glas she's mentioned here allraeady but we can't use ourselves as a reference. please see wp:rs and wp:athlete. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 17:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

ok i see well here is a mention of her on the offical australia institute of sport page #REDIRECT [[1]] --Benjinaga (talk) 17:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

if anyone feels they want to add to this wikipedia entry feel free to add--Benjinaga (talk) 17:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


### Criteria 1 - Well written
Most likely a fail at the moment. 

This needs work. For example, her height and weight doesn't belong under the education heading.
You need to do a general copy edit, and try to write paragraphs for each heading, not single sentences.
I doubt that you have checked things like Words to watch, Layout (particularly the order of sections bit), Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section carefully yet. 
 Another pass of spelling and grammar checks would be a good idea. 


### Criteria 2 - Factually accurate and verifiable (and some comments about references)
Close to pass, but a fail at the moment. Most things are referenced, but a few things are missing. I also have some general comments about referencing.

There are facts that are unreferenced. You need to check every sentence. "In 2010 at the IPC Swimming World Championships in Eindhoven, Netherlands she won two bronze medals in the women's 200m individual medley and 400m freestyle S9 events" is an example. 
Don't double up on references - use reference names and just use each reference once, refering to it multiple times.
Just giving the url is insufficient for references. Use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angie_Ballard#References as an example for formatting them properly. 


### Criteria 3 - Broadness
I would probably fail it. It seems quite short for the amount of information availible.

There is no discussion of her disability and disability classification. 
We need to know about her participation in events beyond medal placement.
The training subheading ought to be a paragraph, not a sentence. 
I'm a little concerned about the number of distinct references used (too small). It makes me wary about the completeness.


### Criteria 4 - Neutrality
Fine as far as I can tell.


### Criteria 5 - Stability
I think that is fine.


### Criteria 6 - Images
We need a full body shot in my view. Enquire as to if we can get any. JJ Harrison (talk) 10:59, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I've been through the words to watch and fixed one or two problems.
I think the 'Buckley, Jane. "A Guide to the Classification Systems used in Paralympic Sports"' reference is dubious with respect to WP:RS.
I've used a source straight from the IPC website. Graham87 15:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
The sentence " On 14 February 1994, aged three, her right leg was amputated above the knee" is incomplete. Was it because of the cancer?
Yes, I've clarified that part. Graham87 15:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
And where did the "14 February 1994" bit come from? Graham87 15:43, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Never mind, I've found it; it was in her APC profile. Graham87 01:50, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
"Cole attended Mount Allison North Primary School and Frankston High School, both in Frankston, Victoria." seems unreferenced. The rest of it seems good, excepting the above self-published source.


### 1. Well-written
This is the main remaining problem. I've checked Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout and they seem ok. The lede needs a little expansion and checking I think.  The whole thing needs minor formatting fixes and a copyedit. JJ Harrison (talk) 14:47, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I've expanded the lead section. Graham87 01:50, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

"Ellie Cole is captain of the Australian Paralympic Team" was added on 21 May 2012 with http://www.frankston.vic.gov.au/Arts_Culture_and_Heritage/Frankstons_Hall_of_Fame/Hall_of_FameInductees_2010/Ellie_Cole/index.aspx as the reference.
The Telegraph said "..Australian Paralympic team captain Ellie Cole.." on 4 June 2012  ([2]).
A new user has now (10 July 2012) removed this from our Wikipedia article.[3]  We should confirm it beyond doubt, and then put it back with additional(/more reliable?) references. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:29, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I removed it before noticing this message. Graham87 01:27, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

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