# Talk:Childhood nudity

The article Childhood nudity in the United States was created about a week ago. I did not make any snap judgment, but reviewed the content of the new article. Its creation was functionally the same as a "Split section" process, without observing the need for prior consensus that this was appropriate. There is little new content to salvage, after which the unneeded article can be deleted. WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:27, 3 November 2025 (UTC)

Discussion:
Always inclined toward assuming good faith (WP:AGF), I did not react negatively to the creation of an article that is a subtopic of the article Childhood nudity. The proper way to create such an article would have been to place a Template:Split section tag in the parent article and have a discussion to reach consensus on the appropriateness of doing so.
Not only was there no prior consensus, no response was made to my notifying the author of issues regarding the quality of the content being added, nor my subsequent concerns regarding the use of poor sources and adding original research.
The most recent edit by @SnappyDragonPennyroyal: was a direct copy of content from the main article to the new, which prompted an attempt to start a discussion by posting directly on their Talk page. Unexpectedly, the response was to say that they were going to be busy, could I continue to work on the article? Instead, I responded that I would place the Merge to tag.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 16:07, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
On second thought, I think that merging the two articles together is fine as long as it does not result in a loss of content.  SnappyDragonPennyroyal (talk) 20:38, 3 November 2025 (UTC)
Thank you, I will proceed. WriterArtistDC (talk) 02:17, 4 November 2025 (UTC)

@WriterArtistDC: what do you think that we should work on in this broader childhood nudity article now that the two articles have been merged? I have several suggestions:

Discuss differences in levels of clothing between different Native American tribes
If its not about children and full nudity, this is not the place, but  Nakedness and colonialism might be.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 03:40, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Include more information on post-Civil War racial differences in childhood nudity (did certain groups after the Civil War hold different norms surrounding childhood nudity)
I'm not sure what you mean by this. There have always been local differences due to immigration and acculturation.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 03:40, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
I am referring to statistics on contemporary family naturism and race/ethnicity in the US. For example, what percentage of white American families practice family naturism? What percentage of African American families? What percentage of Latino families? SnappyDragonPennyroyal (talk) 05:07, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Again, applying summary style, details about naturism should be added to the article Naturism in the United States, not this article. WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:24, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Include more information about the use of communal showers in the US (the current section is very short)
Any part of everyday life is not the sort of topic that is going to have reliable sources, and I have looked.
Discuss late 19th and early 20th century norms surrounding nude interaction between boys (what level of physical distance was considered appropriate and what types of physical interaction were considered socially acceptable)
I have found a couple of references, but they are about men not boys.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 03:40, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Could you possibly include this information in Nude swimming in US indoor pools, which covers nude swimming in the US regardless of age? SnappyDragonPennyroyal (talk) 05:16, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
They are not about nudity, but men embracing or friends holding hands, which remains the norm in other cultures.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:51, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Include more discussion about controversies related to depictions of nude children and court cases on nonsexual photography of nude children
This is covered in Fine-art_nude_photography#Children_as_subjects--WriterArtistDC (talk) 03:40, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Include more information about fears of childhood nudity leading to child sexual abuse, which some view as valid and others view as a moral panic
Again this is a topic that has been covered as much as it needs to be here, there already being article of child abuse and observing "Summary style" (item #3 below).
SnappyDragonPennyroyal (talk) 01:32, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

To begin with, there should be certain general understandings and agreements:
When I first encountered the main Nudity article it used "sfn" citations and I kept them, and now appreciate that this creates a list of citations and references similar to traditional academic works. There are no WP guidelines on reference styles, except for a favoring a consistent citation scheme within any single article. Thus, I have begun to convert the ref tags here that have been added in the merge.
This is a Good article, and I have done a lot of work to make it so. This is not claiming ownership, I have always recognized the need for collaboration and propose articles for GA review mainly to stimulate feedback. I appreciate when other editors catch the errors I missed. That is how articles become better, if they do.
I have seen no indication of appreciation for WP:Summary style in WP editing. In order to keep articles down to readable size, topics are addressed in multiple articles, each on a subtopic or at different levels of detail. In order to improve the main Nudity article, I created several articles including this one, Nakedness and colonialism, and Nude swimming in US indoor pools. It is counter-productive to include extensive content from a related article in another article. Once the related topic is addressed by placing a See also tag and a paragraph or two to summarize, that should be all.
@WriterArtistDC: A few follow up questions now that you have responded:

Can you think of any possible improvements to this article we can make?
How can we improve Nakedness and colonialism and Nude swimming in US indoor pools?
I created both and have been moving them towards being GA, but they are not a priority.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:51, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
Should either of us create a new article titled Outdoor nude swimming in the US to include detailed information about nude swimming at summer camps and outdoor bodies of water? Or should we rename Nude swimming in US indoor pools to just Nude swimming in the US and include the information there?
There is already an article on Nude swimming. Nude swimming at summer camps may have been the norm, but in all the research on nudity that I have done, there have been few references to it.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:51, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

The addition of the photo of a boy urinating is an example of including content in the wrong place, so I have moved it to the article Depictions of nudity#Depictions of youth which is linked at the beginning of the Depictions section in this article. This is to keep this article from being flooded with photos. WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:35, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

On second consideration, I moved it to Fine-art nude photography#Children as subjects. WriterArtistDC (talk) 23:48, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

In an article on everyday life, there is always a danger of Wikipedia:SYNTH, citing what may be isolated incidents that are used to support a general conclusion. I have tagged such a conclusion in the "Nude swimming in indoor pools" section, which cites a single incident of nude swimming at summer camp to make a generalization that this behavior is widespread. (Another similar citation was removed for other reasons.)
I have however used reports of specific incidents to provide additional context for well-supported generalizations, in particular on the topic of male nudity and indoor pools in the twentieth century. There are ample citations for the general policy in official documents and academic studies; news reports on local implementation of these policies at the local level, e.g. "Learn to Swim" programs, are not then original research. However, I have not seen any academic studies on nude swimming in scouting or summer camps, only particular incidents. The prior use of, and contemporary decline in, communal showers also lacks academic references. WriterArtistDC (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2025 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what made the image for Childhood nudity#Communal showers not suitable for this article? You said that it did not have proper attribution; can you clarify what this means? SnappyDragonPennyroyal (talk) 05:36, 16 November 2025 (UTC)
The image did not have a clear time and place. Although "Denver" was in its article caption, this was not in the Commons page for the image. Following the link to the Brown U. library page, BDR:539182 was not found so I could not clarify. WriterArtistDC (talk) 13:38, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
OK. I will find another suitable image to upload with a definite time and place. I know that I told you that I would leave editing up to you, but I think that I will add a new photo for Communal showers and add a few more details.  SnappyDragonPennyroyal (talk) 20:30, 17 November 2025 (UTC)
I’m not sure whether the city of Buffalo is specific enough. The presence of fully clothed adults only adds to the ambiguity: was this a changing room in a factory that employed boys this young? If so, then a historical reference regarding the practice would provide context for the image. WriterArtistDC (talk) 00:04, 18 November 2025 (UTC)
I added a location SnappyDragonPennyroyal (talk) 02:38, 18 November 2025 (UTC)