# Talk:Elizabeth Gunning (writer)

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@Boleyn: as page creator and @LEvalyn: as creator of Lord Fitzhenry, Gunning wrote novels and translated works from French in various genres, so I suggest writer or novelist would be a better disambiguator than translator. The ODNB says "novelist". Any thoughts? TSventon (talk) 15:04, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

I was thinking "writer" to capture both the translations and the novels. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 16:33, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
I boldly made the move to "writer" but happy to revisit if there is opposition. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 01:46, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

@LEvalyn and Kusma: the list of works still seems to be based on the list in the Dictionary of National Biography at wikisource:Dictionary of National Biography, 1885-1900/Gunning, Susannah. I think it would be useful to review titles add French originals, e.g. Translation of Mémoires de Madame de Barneveldt by Jean Du Castre d'Auvigny and Pierre François Guyot Desfontaines if sourcing permits. Another e.g. Fontenelles' 'Plurality of Worlds,' was published as "Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds by M. de Fontenelle. With Notes, and a Critical Account of the Author’s Writings, by Jerome de La Lande … Translated from a late Paris edition, by Miss Elizabeth Gunning. Translated by Elizabeth Gunning" according to The Palgrave Encyclopedia. TSventon (talk) 19:26, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

Thanks @TSventon, that explains why the list tells us the format of the books, but not the publisher :) I agree that adding the French original titles would be an improvement. —Kusma (talk) 20:47, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
The 2024 version of the article had a note:
 This article incorporates text from a publication now in the public domain: "Gunning, Susannah". Dictionary of National Biography. London: Smith, Elder & Co. 1885–1900.  TSventon (talk) 20:54, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
I've just gotten in an Inter-Library Loan that gave me "Chronology of Elizabeth Gunning" from a 2023 edition of The Foresters, which extremely helpfully let me fill in the publishers and longer titles for her books! :D ~ L 🌸 (talk) 19:36, 5 August 2025 (UTC)

It's obviously hostile to the subject and not adequately representative of her either in terms of physical appearance or as a summary of who she was. When there is a normal portrait, opting for such a caricature instead strikes me as highly POV. Not to mention that the image is rather disgusting physically, if you see the whole of it. 62.73.72.101 (talk) 03:49, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

The subject has been dead for two whole centuries. I am sure she does not care what image we use. WP:NPOV means "representing ... all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." The caricature itself is discussed in reliable sources, is housed at the National Portrait Gallery, London, and is tied directly to the pamphlet war that is the subject of the hook. Surtsicna (talk) 08:29, 15 August 2025 (UTC)
Spitting on dead people's graves is about as ugly as denigrating living ones. It is widely accepted as common decency to be fair to (the memory of) dead people in accordance with what they would have wanted and deserved if they were alive - after all, we will all be dead eventually. The caricature is discussed in RS, and so are caricatures of Jews in Der Stürmer, which is not a reason to illustrate the link to the article Jews with a caricature from Der Stürmer. Concerning NPOV - well, yes, that includes choosing a neutral image that is compatible with all significant views as opposed to choosing an image that expresses a highly negative view published by a non-reliable source (the British press of the 18th century). --62.73.72.101 (talk) 00:24, 16 August 2025 (UTC)
Right. I am not even surprised that we reached the Nazi comparisons so quickly. Surtsicna (talk) 06:15, 16 August 2025 (UTC)