# Talk:King Charles Spaniel

This breed is classed in Britain as a VNB - a breed which originated in the UK but now has registration numbers with the Kennel Club of less then 300 puppies per year.  
I'm a Canadian teenager on a gap year before Uni and I'm really interested in this.  Would anyone like a VNB paragraph/link on this page?  I can write it, but am ignorant about formatting etc.  Plus, I'm trying to put together a whole collection on all 29 breeds on this list, including history and so on, using Wikipedia as one of my many sources.  If you can help, or are interested at all, please contact me either on my talk page or at green_ied_dragon@hotmail.com   
--The Wizard of Magicland 19:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe the Cavalier and the King Charles to have been entirely separate attempts to breed dogs like the (extinct) breed depicted in Tudor and Stewart portraits - neither is descended from the other. -- Ian Dalziel 22:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The article has no history on the breed between 1760 (say 1785 if we go from Charles II death) and 1829 (or perhaps 1800 if the mid-19th C writers are discussing historical developments.  That leaves at least a hundred years gap in the history. Yomanganitalk 10:50, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Just done a quick search and one of my favoured period writers has a book which may lend some insights. Stonehedge's Manual of British Rural Sports at the internet archive here talks about the comforter remaining in favour during the reign of James II. Also found out that there is a painting by Van Dyke of James II's consort Mary which features a toy spaniel with a white coat and brown spots. Will work this weekend to fill that gap in the history. Miyagawa (talk) 12:00, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
You've narrowed it down a bit (up to 1715), though with the implication that they fell out of favour with the end of the Stuarts. Have you checked any of the other 19th century writers apart from Stonehenge for details on the 18th century history? Yomanganitalk 10:43, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Have gone through quite a lot more 19th century writers and found some details comparing the English Toy Spaniel breeds with the Continental Toy Spaniel in 1836. Other than that, I haven't been able to find anything notable occurring to the breed specifically in that period. Miyagawa (talk) 22:17, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
It's 1700-1800 that you need to cover. Admittedly there's not much written down out there; development of the breed seems to stop until the Duke of Malborough got interested. There are enough references to toys and King Charles in art and literature to prove that they remained popular though: Jonathan Swift's satire of Ambrose Philips, On Rover: A Lady's Spaniel from the 1720s; various works of Hogarth's depicting spaniels in different strata of society: Before and After c. 1731, The Rake Arrested from A Rake's Progress 1734, Woode Rogers and Family 1729, The Jones Family c.1730, Portrait of Sir Andrew Fountaine with Other Men and Women c. 1730-5 (also featuring a pug), The Distrest Poet 1740, The Mackinen Children, c.1742; Gainsborough's portrait of Queen Charlotte 1781; George Romney's Lady Hamilton as Nature 1782; George Stubbs' King Charles Spaniel 1780? and this from 1791. From outside the UK you have Jean François de Troy's Declaration of Love from 1724 and Jean-Baptiste Huet's Le Petit Favori from 1778.
A few more snippets that might also be useful: [1] [2] [3] from 1800 Yomanganitalk 13:05, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
Also there's this caricature on women's fashion [4] from 1777. Yomanganitalk 13:34, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, had a really busy week. I'll have a look over those links in the next couple of days and add the appropriate information. Miyagawa (talk) 07:27, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I've now added an additional paragraph regarding this century and added an image. I've used those sources you provided, and found an additional one of my own.Miyagawa (talk) 19:40, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

The picture headed "King Charles Spaniel with Blenheim markings" looks like it is actually a Cavalier to me. What do we think? AndrewJFulker (talk) 10:18, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I thought that too. Ian Dalziel (talk) 10:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
I've removed it. It was a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel for sure - there's no way a King Charles Spaniel has a nose like that. Miyagawa (talk) 13:02, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

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