# Talk:Grindcore

I guess there should be at least a reference to brazilian grindcore. Brigada do Ódio, Atack Epiléptico, ROT, Rabujos all brazilian oldschool grindcore. 200.158.11.222 (talk) 12:53, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

If reliable sources discussing any of these bands exist, please feel free to add them or bring them up here. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 05:09, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

might I suggest adding noisegrind, electrogrind/cybergrind, crustgrind as either there own page ,or as a section to Grindcore's page ,even if it is just a something at the botem that says somethign like 'crustgrind is a fusion of crust punk and grindcore' ,I think that would help those who don't kow what the genre is at all--Rockerdude101 (talk) 23:00, 6 April 2012 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockerdude101 (talk • contribs) 22:42, 6 April 2012 (UTC) 

Can you provide some reliable sources discussing those subgenres? If you can, feel free to add some information from those sources about these subgenres. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 10:29, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
I have no rsources ,that is why I went to the talk page ,hopin that someone would ,I have been trying to find some sources ,however have not been sucsessfull --Rockerdude101 (talk) 13:02, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
The problem with specific sub-genres of underground or non mainstream music or art is that there are very few reliable sources for them. You won't find many popular or established publications that will cover grindcore and then break it down in noisegrind, cybergrind and crustgrind or any specific movement within it. I suppose Terrorizer Is one place to start Jonjonjohny (talk) 15:44, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
thank you I'll have a look to see wht I can find --Rockerdude101 (talk) 21:57, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Terrorizer did a grindcore series a while back that definitely had sections on crustgrind and electrogrind (although not "noisegrind" as far as I remember). I'll try and dig them out later. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 10:49, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
that wwould be very helpful, I looked on the website and couldn't find anything, however I didn't have a very good look --Rockerdude101 (talk) 21:01, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I will have a look later on... slightly immersed in sorting out Brazilian thrash metal articles at present. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:17, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
ok, I look foward to seeing it
--Rockerdude101 (talk) 23:14, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

There's definitely more written about cybergrind, so that at least deserves a small section. Metalcore however, doesn't have a place in this article. It's a completely different sound. It's not even directly derived from Grindcore, so why is it there? 50.98.18.29 (talk) 18:42, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't understand how all these 'grind' subgenres are significant enough to be arguable, they're all forms of grindcore. It's not individual opinion that decides what type of'grind' they are, it's their influences. 20:03 3rd October 2014

Live Shows - Crank Shows??
Back in the late 90's i'm sure that al ot of the Grincore festivals i went to in Europe were calling themselves 'Crank Shows' and i was wondering if anyone could back me up on this? I was in Belgium July 1998 and there were a series of events i attended that were all going under the 'Crank House' banner.
There were bands like 'The Locusts', 'Crippled Baby', and 'Tears of the Black Jesus' all playing, and some of these events had some live gore action going on. Fake blood, prosthetic limbs, hospital garb and what have you flying about the place.
Anyways, if anyone can back me up on this i'd sure appreciate it. HARDCORE WILL NEVER DIE!!!!
--AlexanderTheG.O.A.T (talk) 17:24, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

There is no "one band", grind core has its own providence via a list of influences. An older video of Napalm Death has Bill Steer mention chord progressions which emulate a tradition of sound which, incur time changes and how the said band makes the time change suggests a scope of influence. Grindcore is not by any fashion American and most American grind sucks. The overt mention of it here is because the authors are Jadad toward inclusive American stats. Bill Steer is primary to a host of bands which are spurred by the Napalm Death/Carcass time changes and chord progressions. From the US the only 4 that figure into grind Proper are Repulsion, Excruciating Terror, Brutal Truth and of course Terrorizer. All others mentioned from the US are followers of later Genres. Disrupt being hardcore and the like do not fall into the category because they aren't a blast beat style of band but incorporate fast off time punk style. Bands that are without a doubt grind core and incorrectly tagged because of mass tags being formed and in essence because of the direction of the vocal topics are ahumado granujo, Spasm, Regurgitate, dead infection, Meat spreader, Anarchus, Looking for an answer, Sordid Clot, 5 stabbed 4 corpses, all the afore mentioned bands are leading grind core bands despite labeling who stay true to original assets of grind by influence or not.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C0:105:1B7F:4472:388D:2FEE:E1D4 (talk) 08:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC) 
There needs to be a link to a text or video interview to the one band that discovered grindcore 
26th May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.67.142 (talk) 11:37, May 26, 2014

Which band is that, specifically? The History section mentions several bands that contributed to the creation and development of grindcore, so I'm not sure that any one band is the band that "discovered" grindcore. There exist references that support all of those bands being involved in grindcore's early days, so I'm not sure what more we need. Was there something specific that you wanted included? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 19:11, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
The part that says Napalm Death were the innovators of grindcore, that is believable but there needs to be a link to prove it like a scan of the book page maybe, and the other bands like Repulsion and Terrorizer are only so influential because Napalm Death brought them into public recognition 
22:00 26th May 2014 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.67.142 (talk)  

Each of those bands has a reference showing where this information was found (thus "proving" it). A scan of the pages of the books/magazines isn't necessary; any reader can obtain those sources and verify the information for themselves. Not to mention that linking to scans of those books/magazines is likely a copyright violation.
Do you have any evidence from reliable sources supporting your claim that Repulsion/Terrorizer are only known due to Napalm Death? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 21:27, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Napalm Death's Deceiver uses a Repulsion intro, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmME3T3oT7Q 
Terrorizer is pretty much a spinoff of Napalm Death, http://www.allcdcovers.com/show/33291/terrorizer_world_downfall_1999_retail_cd/front
plus they released their first album in 1989, Napalm Death in 1987 with Scum, most of Repulsion's recordings were unreleased until 2003 http://www.allcdcovers.com/download/0ac5a9f2c328dda3e884d6e53ae68d6c/140393/a1c8aa1c5d089c679821cee5052eee67/5383c6a2/repulsion_horrified_2003_retail_cd-back 23:53 26 May 2014 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.67.142 (talk)  

I'm afraid nothing you've posted really adds to the article.
A Youtube video is hardly a reliable source; what we would need is an article or book passage discussing that "Deceiver" uses a Repulsion intro, and that this was how ND helped Repulsion become more well-known.
Having similar album covers doesn't mean that Terrorizer wasn't popular on their own merits. It just means they had a similar album cover.
Keep in mind that Horrified was released in 1986, a year before Scum. In fact, in this very article: "Shane Embury, in particular, advocates the band [Repulsion] as the origin of Napalm Death's later innovations.", which seems to say the opposite, that ND were influenced by Repulsion, and not the other way around.
Basically, what we need here is articles in reputable magazines or text from reputable books saying that Napalm Death made Terrorizer/Repulsion more well-known. But comparing songs or album covers to one another without a source discussing that is original research, which isn't used on Wikipedia. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:00, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
You can hand type the information on the book page. Plus, you have the cd 'Noise for Music's sake' don't you? You should know, it says so in there. It says that the band went through various intros for 'Deceiver' before they came up with the Repulsion intro. 20:00 3rd October 2014— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.67.142 (talk) 3 October 2014

Do the liner notes also say that the "Deceiver" intro was a direct reason for Repulsion becoming more well-known? Actually, I'm not sure even that would be enough; a claim such as that should be discussed in a reliable third-party source. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 21:44, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
Actually it's arguable as to who was the innovator of grindcore. A reference doesn't mean everyone is going to believe it, plus it doesn't take a genius to see who's released the most albums. Come on, don't be a robot! If you went on youtube and saw a Napalm Death, Repulsion or Carcass upload, you would get relentless arguments about what is grindcore and what is not, no matter what you say to them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.67.142 (talk) 11:16, 24 October 2014 (UTC) 

Still waiting for reliable third-party sources supporting your claims. Which band has released the most albums isn't relevant to this discussion, and arguments on Youtube are definitely not reliable in any way. If someone doesn't believe a reference, that's their decision; it isn't going to change how Wikipedia works. Until you provide some proper references backing up your claims, no changes will be made to this article. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 17:18, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

No Death Metal in "stylistic origins"?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by GREYBOYY (talk • contribs) 20:46, 12 December 2014 (UTC) 
No. Grindcore was arguably even pioneered before death metal was pioneered. Grindcore is a souped-up version of hardcore and crust punk. Early death metal was glorified thrash metal. Although yes, a lot of early grindcore bands used death metal elements in their sound (Carcass, Terrorizer, Repulsion), but grindcore on its own is not death metal influenced.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.80.1.126 (talk) 13:02, 15 May 2015 (UTC) 

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User:Blackmetalbaz was there as reason for this unexplained revert? The history section states that Napalm Death borrowed from thrashcore, and highlights the influence of thrashcore groups Siege and Septic Death.--MASHAUNIX 10:05, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

"Thrashcore"... come on man. Second Skin (talk) 10:15, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
What do you mean? It's a pretty well established style of hardcore, and has significant source coverage. Issan Sumisu (talk) 13:33, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Grindcore's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Rise of Crust":
From Amebix: Von Havoc, Felix (1984-01-01). "Rise of Crust". Profane Existence. Archived from the original on 15 June 2008. Retrieved 2008-06-16. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
From D-beat: Von Havoc, Felix (1984-01-01). "Rise of Crust". Profane Existence. Archived from the original on 2008-06-15. Retrieved 2008-06-16. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 13:12, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

The list of 5700+ grindcore albums titled "In Grind We Crust" is not a reliable source. The author, who goes by the pseudonym "classicalgrinder", is not a widely known expert, and the publishing platform is rateyourmusic.com which fails WP:USERG and is therefore listed as an unreliable source at WP:ALBUMAVOID. The recent flurry of editing has been based on unreliable discogs and rateyourmusic sources, so that's why we must return to the pre-warring status quo. Binksternet (talk) 15:36, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

...And we must remove the Discogs reference also because it fails WP:USERG. Binksternet (talk) 21:23, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
I agree, though I don't see where Discogs is being used. Can you be specific? Also I'm not sure that the  "In Grind We Crust" being used as a reference is that rateyourmusic link--there's not enough info the reference to identify what the source actually is. But as it stands now, the reference is definitely a problem--the source is either that link in, which case it's not reliable, and/or it's an incomplete and thus useless reference. Yilloslime (talk) 21:50, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
One unnecessary Discogs cite is tucked into the blast beat section: https://www.discogs.com/L%C3%A4rm-Campaign-For-Musical-Destruction/release/1935168. The sentence is about what "Daniel Ekeroth argues" and the Ekeroth book is properly cited.
I looked far and wide for "In Grind We Crust" to see if there was a book under that name and I failed. The rateyourmusic list is the closest I got. Binksternet (talk) 23:17, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
I think the cite's taken from the crust punk page, the reference is "In Grind We Crust," Terrorizer #181, March 2009, p. 46, 51. Issan Sumisu (talk) 08:47, 25 February 2021 (UTC)