# Talk:Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

[1], [2]. [3]. [4] and many more all over the US, France, the UK, India etc. Doug Weller talk 15:26, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

The lead paragraph states that Coeur d'Alene is French for "Heart of an awl."  WTF? Awls dont have hearts even metaphorically.  The link to Coeur d'Alene people states that the name in the Coeur d'Alene native language means ""The Discovered People" or "Those Who Are Found Here"."
So is the "awl" nonsense?  Anyone know? Ecphora (talk)

The French fur traders gave the indigenous people the name "Coeur d' Alene", which explains why it is a French phrase. Having "the heart of an awl" is a very old French metaphor that means "a shrewd trader". The locals were very tough traders, demanding much value in return. The local tribe has unfortunately lost their heritage name, if they ever had one. They were a relatively small tribe and mostly kept to themselves. Titles like "the discovered people" are anachronistic. They simply don't know enough of their own history to say what their ancestors called themselves, if anything other than "people" or "tribe". Considering their relative isolation and small size, it's unlikely they ever developed an identity strong enough to give it a unique name. 76.178.169.118 (talk) 22:46, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
That purported translation is indeed nonsense. "Alène" has a grave accent, whereas "Awl" being translated is "Alêne" spelt with a circonflex. Alène is a girl's name, or might here refer to the region in Burgundy, in the heart (heh) of France, watered by a river of the same name. As a name, Alène might conceivably refer to a Catholic saint, being a frenchified name of Saint Aline of Dilbeek (in Brabant/Belgium). Scarinae (talk) 02:28, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
Where did you find "Alène" spelled with a grave accent?  The "Name" section on Coeur d'Alene people spells it "Alêne" and has a source backing up the "awl" etymology. (It's also possible that the pronunciation and/or spelling has shifted over time.) Elestrophe (talk) 09:50, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
The article you refer to is a different article. At the very start of this one - "Coeur d'Alene, Idaho" - appears Alène with a grave: 'French: Cœur d'Alène, lit. 'Heart of Awl'. That's simply incorrect on its face. I'd add that another article, "Coeur d'Alene language", insists on "Cœur d'Alène". That's two wikipedia articles with a grave (so far) versus one with a circonflex (so far).
That said, I'm a little sympathetic. But the point (heh) is not established either way. On the one hand it's true that in the early 1900s reference works such as the Catholic Encyclopedia, or even the 1911 Brittanica, did spell Alene with a circonflex.
On the other hand, there's little evidence for that. The Lewis and Clark website (lewis-clark.org) remarks that ‘Pointed heart’ is just "one of the English interpretations of the French ‘Coeur d’Alene’." There are others.
Lewis and Clark did not refer to the tribe as "Coeur d'Alêne" but as "Skeets-so-mich" (on 6th May 1806). None of the expedition were sticklers for correct spelling anyway, even in French or English (cf. Clark spelling "crowd" as "croud").
The phrase "Heart of Awl" seems to originate with a French missionary and artist (Nicolas Point) about four decades later, in the Bitterroot valley. Point distinguished "Pointed Hearts" from the Flathead indians around then. It seems all he had to go on was the spoken name, Coeur d'Alene, and heard "awl" instead of a proper or place name.
A century later one linguist (Gladys Reichard), noted the circonflex but insisted on leaving Alene unaccented in the 'Handbook of American Indian Languages' (part 3). That's probably for the best. Scarinae (talk) 12:03, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Coeur d'Alene, Idaho/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Larry Hockett (talk · contribs) 16:57, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
I'll be happy to review this. I hope to leave some initial feedback by this weekend. Larry Hockett (Talk) 16:57, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Some initial checks: The page history shows that the entry is stable, Earwig's tool returns no significant copyright concerns, and there are no unaddressed cleanup tags. I'll go through the article section by section and leave feedback. If I have feedback that is very minor or outside of the GA criteria, I'll try to mark it as such. I may go back and clean up the minor stuff myself during the review.


### Lead
"The origins of the city began with being a fort town" - too wordy - The city began as a fort town?
"After the Great Depression" - I think this sentence should be split into at least two.
minor: Holiday Light Shows - lowercase / common nouns
The lead feels a little long; there are five paragraphs rather than the conventional four, which isn't terrible, but it feels like there are places where we could make it more concise. For example, you mention CDA's location in the first and last paragraphs.  This is probably outside of the GA criteria, but I would consider taking out some of the specific mentions of the resorts, golf courses and such.


### History
I don't think you need "by the autonym" in the first sentence (redundant, since you explain they called themselves that).
How long/when did the CDA people live there? Give the reader an idea of how much time this history is covering.
Second paragraph: comma after reasons or after across? Depends on meaning.
"meaning the tribal traders had hearts as sharp as the tip of an awl or sharp hearted and were shrewd, tough businessmen." Too much going on here for one sentence.
"but was followed up with George Wright's campaign"   If I understand this long sentence, the corresponding subject is "talks", which means the verb should be "were followed".
"depending on job duties to mitigate increased costs"   Not very easy to determine what this means.
"the engineer, Levi "Al" Hutton, later claimed at gunpoint."   This doesn't seem like an independent clause (can't stand alone after a semicolon).
"Years later Harry Orchard"   Two uses of "later" in this sentence but may not need either one since the dates are there.
"in 1925 there were seven lumber mills operating in the area and was producing 500 million board feet of lumber."  Grammar - what was producing? The way I read it, the lumber mills were producing.
"the depression years saw the creation of Coeur d'Alene Junior College" - anthropomorphism - years don't see
"Tourism has taken on even more prominence and became one of the main drivers of the local economy" - why the different verb tenses? Probably should change became to has become.
In the same paragraph, there are a couple of informal uses of "saw" as noted a couple of bullet points higher.
"The sources of the newest transplants are still mainly from" - shorten to "The newest transplants are still mainly from"


### Geography
"Environmental concerns have come as a result of" - this sentence looks like a runon


### Climate
"The monthly daily mean temperature" - I think we can get rid of monthly, since we explain that it varies according to month.
"while conversely, there may be several nights" - reads better without conversely


### Neighborhoods
"216 feet" - "216-foot"
Same sentence - comma after tower
Comma after city center and after Cabela's
"highly esteemed" is probably not NPOV
comma after Hayden Lake community


### Parks and recreation
In general, this section is written more like a travel brochure than an encyclopedia entry. Needs cleanup of some non-neutral tone (ex: enjoyed, popular [at least four times], excellent views, more natural outdoor setting).


### Government and politics
"current mayor" - see WP:WTW (relative time references) - better to say when this mayor was elected.
"and are sometimes noncompetitive or uncontested." - clarify who or what is noncompetitive or uncontested (a city or county isn't described as uncontested - certain elections or portions of elections may be).
"This wasn't always the case and some believe that this increasingly rightward trend..." - Not very helpful to phrase things this way. Just say what was the case, what is the case, and when things changed.


### Demographics
"According to Office of Management and Budget (OMB) standards" - runon sentence
"An Idaho transplant, Richard Butler, a retired engineer from California came to the Coeur d'Alene area" - a little confusing - don't think we need "an Idaho transplant".
"however according to some such as anthropologist" - but according to (since this is in the middle of a sentence with no semicolon
"As of the 2010 census of 2010" - get rid of one of the 2010s


### Economy
"tourism came to be the main influence" - tourism has come to be
giant statues of bird feathers? This seems to come up a bit randomly in the economy section. Are we saying that these things boost tourism, which in turn boosts the economy?  Art galleries and cafes too. They could just be mentioned in the Culture section.
Tourism comes up again in the second paragraph. Not sure why it's broken up like this. Also no need to list the parks again in this section.
"A concern for the city however" - no need for however


### Culture
Similar to the Parks section, check this entire section for non-neutral terms like "vibrant".


### Education
"Library services... are met" - odd verb here. Provided?
"Public library services in the area trace its roots" - their roots


### Roads and highways
"as the states first major interstate highway project to be completed" - state's


### Public transportation
" Extension of Spokane Transit Authority service into Idaho" - runon
That's all for right now. Most of our focus right now should be on improving the quality of the writing, with particular emphasis on punctuation and sentence structure. In the future, you might consider sending the article to WP:GOCE before a GA nomination so that you don't have to work through so much GA feedback in just a few days.  Larry Hockett (Talk) 07:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the work on this so far. I appreciate the prompt attention to my concerns. I went through and reviewed the changes, and I did some copyediting (largely for punctuation) and took out a couple of passages that were redundant. I'm happier with how the article reads now. I'm going to return to the article by this weekend to spot check the references. I'm also going to review the article for the use of neutral tone; it read a little like a PR brochure in some places, but I think I have cleaned up at least some of what I noticed in that regard. Larry Hockett (Talk) 07:33, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to the nominator for the hard work. This meets the GA criteria. Larry Hockett (Talk) 09:10, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Please list the temperatures yearly, monthly, daily. 104.35.79.130 (talk) 22:01, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

While the recent edits deleting the subsection entirely have been reverted, it might be good to have a discussion on how to best present this material according to WP:DUE.  In particular it does seem odd for it to be the very first subsection under "Arts and Culture", and I'm not sure about whether the three separate paragraphs (on Aryan Nations, Patriot Front, and the basketball incident) should or shouldn't be grouped together under the single heading.
Elestrophe (talk) 18:07, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

I fixed it so it now fits. Magnolia677 (talk) 12:24, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
Calling racism a subsection of "arts and culture", particularly the first subsection, seems like it gives undue weight to its importance to local culture, especially since the subsection consisted mostly of individual incidents. I've moved these incidents to appropriate subsections of the "History" section. White 720 (talk) 15:12, 9 July 2025 (UTC)