# Talk:Crater Lake

Hey, Has anyone known about the plant life here? I'm trying to do a research page on the Place but, I need 5 Producers. :(  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Linktlh (talk • contribs) 13:30, 20 May 2015 (UTC) 

An anon added this info to the article:

There is no pedestrian access allowed to Wizard Island.  Only scientists and geologists are allowed to go on the island.
Aside from the fact that "pedestrian access" would be impossible, it is interesting, if it is true, that the public isn't allowed to visit the island. If a source is found, this would probably be better placed in the Wizard Island article. Katr67 19:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I have been to Wizard Island, by boat, a number of years ago, so I don't think this is valid.  Unless things have changed.  Nationalparks 21:16, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I, too, have been on Wizard Island, about 1992.  I also did scuba off the docks of Wizard Island.  It was chilly, and murkier than expected.  There was little to see, except a few fish, some strange algae which looked like a cross between bull kelp and bubble wrap, and all kinds of sunglasses, jewelry, camera accessories, coins, etc.  If I recall, Phantom Ship is restricted to scientists.
The park's FAQs (under Are there any fish in the lake? Where can I go fishing?) say that fishing is permitted from Wizard Island.  —EncMstr 21:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
According to Day Hikes you are allowed to hike on Wizard Island.  I have visited the park and this required a boat ride to and from the island, but you are indeed allowed to do so.  I'll update the article when I get a chance if no one beats me to it. --Burntnickel 12:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
The phrase "seven different trees" on Wizard Island should either be 7 different kinds of trees, or seven trees. I can't find a source on the WI page. Billyshiverstick (talk) 21:47, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

It also holds the honor of being the deepest lake in the world that is completely above sea level.
That's wrong. In this category the lake is beaten by the Issyk Kul, wich has a maximum depth of 668m according to the article. --195.145.17.162 12:06, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I removed that statement as there are no sources for that and the depth of Issyk Kul is greater than Crater Lake while still being above sea level (according to the max depth and elevation above see level of the surface). --Hdt83  Chat 06:37, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
However, based on a comparison of average depths, Crater Lake at 350m is deeper than Lake Issyk Kul (279m), and therefore Crater Lake, on the average, would be the deepest lake in the world whose basin is entirely above sea level.--Pkrnger (talk) 18:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Pkrngr, what you say is interesting, but would have to be cited with a reliable source. I took some time and tracked down two sources, on the site you linked above, that confirm that Crater Lake is the third-deepest lake in the world by this measurement, but it makes no mention of the "above sea level" bit. I don't doubt that's true -- in fact, I looked at Lakes Baikal and Tanganyika, and see that both of their depths reach below sea level (elevation minus greatest depth.) However, unless that's been reported somewhere, its notability is dubious. Consider that I could claim that I am the tallest man in the world, as long as you rule out x, y, z, … but nobody really cares, beyond some threshold of conditions attached. The only way we can assess where that theshold is, as Wikipedia editors, is to include only the stuff that has been reported in other publications. Anyway, I think if you want to include the "third-deepest" version, I don't think there would be any problem, as long as you provide a link or citation to a source. -Pete (talk) 18:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
The current text says:

I propose the following to replace it:

This is backed up by the citations noted, one of which was published in the Klamath Falls Herald and News. I believe it expresses the facts in a more neutral tone, than the current text. Any objections? -Pete (talk) 21:06, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Pete, I am Owen Hoffman, a Director of the Crater Lake Institute and former NPS park ranger-naturalist and lake researcher at Crater Lake National Park.  My research on the comparison of rankings of the deepest lakes in the world was the source of that Klamath Falls Herald and News article that you cite above.  My primary reference for information on lake statistics  is the ILEC data base http://www.ilec.or.jp/database/asi/asi-55.html as linked to http://www.worldlakes.org. To find the lakes whose basins extend below sea level, simply subtract the maximum reported depth from the reported elevation of the lake's surface as given in the ILEC data base.
Based on the ILEC data base, all the lakes reported to be deeper than Crater Lake have basins that extend below sea level, except for Lake Issyk Kul, which has a reported maximum depth of 700 meters and an average depth of 279 meters.  It's average depth is less than the 350 m average for Crater Lake.
Based on a comparison of average depths, only Lakes Baikal and Tanganyika have average depths deeper than Crater Lake, and their basins extend below sea level.  Therefore I would advise that the present text should stand as is.  Among those world lakes whose basins are entirely above sea level, Crater Lake has the deepest average depth.
I would appreciate help in adding the above links as further reference material--198.144.166.5 (talk) 22:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)--Pkrnger (talk) 22:14, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Owen, thanks for introducing yourself -- and moreover, thanks for bringing your expertise to Wikipedia! First off, on citations. For the H&N article, the way I'd do it is to put the following after the text it cites:
<ref>Juillerat, Lee. "[http://www.craterlakeinstitute.com/crater-lake-news/owen-crater-lake-depth.htm Into the Deep: Crater Lake's ranking as one of the world's deepest lakes varies by how list is determined]", Klamath Falls Herald and News, November 29, 2007. Retrieved on December 20, 2007.</ref>
That will insert a footnote, properly formatted, at the bottom of the article (in the "References" section. (The {{reflist}} code in that section makes that possible. It's a little bit of wiki magic.)
We can work on the other citations too, but that should give you a basic idea how it works.
On the content, I'm willing to concede the "deepest lake" phrase if that's important to you. However, it's important for an encyclopedia to be transparent in its reasoning. If a reader is interested in what lake is deepest, it's likely they will be interested in what other lakes are considered, and why they don't qualify. For instance, if somebody says to a friend "Crater Lake is the deepest (insert specifics here), I read it on Wikipedia," and their friend challenges that, the WP reader should be able to say: "No, those other two lakes are deeper than Crater Lake, but their deepest parts extend below sea level." I think finding some way of including those specifics -- without getting too wordy -- is important.
Anyway, I hope the description of the citation stuff makes sense. Let me know if you have questions on that. Also, do you know how to use the "diff" function to see what changes have been made to an article? Try clicking on the "history" tab near the top of any WP page, and click any two of the buttons you'll see along the left hand side. Then click "compare versions." Cool, huh? This feature is a big help in seeing article history, and in learning how to do weird things like citations. -Pete (talk) 20:33, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
From an impartial observer: lakes are not divided into categories such as "entirely above sea level" and "partially below sea level". Such a distinction has no place in Wikipedia. If a third party maintained such a list, fine, but no one does. Crater Lake is wonderful enough it doesn't need such Monty Pythonesque attempts to make it sound better. "Deepest lake in the world (visited by Theodore Rooseveldt)" etc. Billyshiverstick (talk) 22:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

The opening paragraph says "At 1,943 feet (592 m), the lake is the deepest in the United States, and the seventh or ninth deepest in the world, depending on whether average or maximum depth is measured." To me, that would imply that Crater Lake is the 7th deepest on average. Then, in the depth section, the article says "However, using average depths of the world's deepest lakes, Crater Lake becomes the deepest lake in the Western Hemisphere and the third deepest in the world." So which is it? The 7th or the 3rd?
Epmatsw (talk) 01:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I’m aware that it’s 8 years later, but the depth rankings still seem false, and contradict Wikipedia’s list of deepest lakes: according to the list, crater lake is the 10th deepest lake by maximum depth, and 5th deepest by average depth, rather than the 9th and 3rd in the article. Should I change it? 222Boarbot78 (talk) 02:14, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Here is an interesting source about the history of the depth of the lake, like it took perhaps 500 years to fill initially.  —EncMstr (talk) 19:04, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Crater Lake winter pano2.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 6, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-05-06. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:53, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

That the crater is (according to the article) an endorheic basin suggests that the lake is getting saltier, and will eventually become a salt lake.  Are there any salinity figures? --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 14:20, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

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Could we have a section on the fish and other fauna in the lake please? This page says that six species of fish were introduced to the lake in the late 1800s, of which only two species survive today, rainbow trout and Kokanee salmon. It's not clear if before the introductions there were other indigenous fish species and other lacustrine fauna that had arrived in the lake over its 6-8,000 year old history, or if the lake was sterile as far as fauna went before the introductions. 109.150.91.128 (talk) 08:10, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Many rankings on the page will have changed due to the new Lake Viedma depth study, giving it a depth of 900m, making it the 5th deepest lake in the world. The Wikipedia list of deepest lakes also cites the General Carrera Lake in Chile/ Argentina as having an average depth of 400m, putting it 4th on the average. The source for this is over 900 pages and I could not look through it- however, I don’t like that two (likely more) Wikipedia pages contradict each other, and wonder if one should be changed? 50.230.248.196 (talk) 02:49, 6 August 2022 (UTC)