# Talk:Le langaige du Bresil

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 15:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Has anyone tried to identify Kra with an existing African language? could it be one of the Kru languages? Sheila1988 (talk) 09:58, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
This document [1] (bottom of page2) says it is "Krao, or at least one of the Kra languages") so i'll add that. Sheila1988 (talk) 10:21, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Sheila1988, thanks for that. I wasn’t able to identify the language by the time I created the article. Cheers, RodRabelo7 (talk) 19:29, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

At this edit, Editor RodRabelo7 reverted my edit with the edit summary: it’s Tupi, Tupinambá is a deprecated term to Tupinologists.
According to the ISO 639-3 custodian, language tag tpw is retired.  See the listing for tpw and the associated change request.  Similarly, the IANA language-subtag-registry file lists tpw as deprecated:

In both cases, the retirement remedy or the preferred value is tpn.
{{lang}} does not care about the opinion of Tupinologists; it is only concerned with creating correctly formatted html for non-English text in the English Wikipedia so that the text renders correctly for our visual readers or is spoken correctly by screen readers for our visually-impaired readers.  To accomplish that, {{lang}} accepts only the language tags defined in the language-subtag-registry file.
Wikipedia should not use deprecated language tags in {{lang}} templates because anything that is deprecated may one day go away.  For this reason, {{lang}} added Le langaige du Bresil to Category:Lang and lang-xx using deprecated ISO 639 codes so that the deprecated tags can be replaced with currently supported (preferred) language tags.  I did that and have since been reverted.
If there is a better (supported) language tag for this specific use-case, use that tag instead of the deprecated tpw tag.  According to our article, there is one other alternative tag: tpk (Tupinikin).  If neither tpn nor tpk is acceptable, we can create a private-use IETF language tag that will allow you to 'name' the language anyway you want without using a deprecated language tag.
At the least, my edit should be restored to replace the deprecated tpw tag with its IANA preferred value tpn.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:19, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Postscript: I have to wonder: In the article there are several uses of tpw-FR.  Is that correct?  tpw-FR reads as 'Tupí as spoken in France'.  Was Tupí spoken in France?
—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:19, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 Comment: I wasn’t the one who added tpn-FR or tpw-FR, I just changed from tpn to tpw. RodRabelo7 (talk) 19:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
It was Error; inviting him to the discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 19:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
I have noted that tpw is deprecated in Tupi language.
tpw-FR (now tpn-FR) is a way to show the text so marked is written in the conventions used by Jehan Lamy, that are different of those used by modern scholars. Was Tupi used in France? At least, it was used by Jehan Lamy as shown in the document this article deals with. For example:
"scissors" (in the original spelling pirame, actually piranha)
marks differently the Lamy spelling and the Wiktionary spelling. Similarly, words written down by Pigafetta could be marked as tpn-IT.
--Error (talk) 09:44, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
And how is the reader supposed to know that?  That we had to ask suggests that your use of the region subtag to attribute orthography to a particular author fails to communicate that attribution.  Rather than hiding the 'attribution' in the wikitext template parameters and HTML attributes, it would seem to me that the article and our readers would be better served by explicitly naming the author in the article text when orthography differs.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
The reader knows from the article text that there are an "original spelling" and an "actual" spelling. The IETF codes, as you probably know better than I, are to communicate machines (spelling correctors, speech synthesizers, corpus builders, search engines, whatever) that a part of the text is in English, another in Portuguese, another in Tupi and another in non-standard Tupi. It is very possible that no machine will process Tupi text other than to discard it and even more probably that no machine will process non-standard Tupi differently from standard Tupi, but I see no harm in marking them differently, and the region mechanism seems appropriate enough since I doubt that Michael Everson will define a subtag such as tpn-jehanlamy or somebody will implement in Wikipedia a tpn-x-tpneurope code. --Error (talk) 00:41, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 Comment: If the language tag tpw is no longer used, then tpn is fine by me. Is it possible to change Tupinambá-language text to Tupi-language text (without diacritic), though? Inviting Bageense to the discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 19:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
It is if there is consensus to do so.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
@Trappist the monk, and where can we seek consensus in this regard? RodRabelo7 (talk) 17:57, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
Mayhaps here or some other place where editors interested in Tupinology hangout.  I guess I'd wait til after the holidays to see if either of your invited editors show up and then decide what to do.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:16, 31 December 2023 (UTC)