# Talk:Ecstatic dance

Really not sure where the contemporary ecstatic dance overlap with "tantra" is coming from. You could just as easily say contemporary ecstatic dance overlaps with organic food or bicycles - there just isn't much of a direct influence, just a broad flavor. To be accurate to the worldwide ecstatic dance events that are happening, I really think the tantra stuff needs to be taken out or substantiated very concretely. Otherwise it just feels like some tantra workshop teacher is trying to market the tantra industry by piggybacking on ecstatic dance. Also I'm concerned that newbies and normies are going to reach up on ecstatic dance and think it is a sexual form. It's not. It's a social dance just like going to blues dance salsa or west coast swing, with a very light sprinkling of ceremonial and 'church' like elements such as no talking, opening circle, etc.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:ED15:F00:7830:F97D:2BCF:39E6 (talk) 17:12, 6 November 2022 (UTC) 

Hello!
A moderator recently flagged the Ecstatic Dance Wikipedia for deletion.  I'd like to argue that there is adequate reason for it to be allowed to stay.
Ecstatic Dance has become an event recognized worldwide in the dance community.  It's origin, format, and guidelines have only partially been published on EcstaticDance.Org.  An Ecstatic Dance Wikipedia page must be established and continued, as a resource for those who are interested in knowing more about it.  Wikipedia is one of the foremost choices as a resource of information.
In the mid 2000's, Conscious Dancer Magazine (in one of it's first printings) came to Kalani Honua to see Ecstatic Dance for themselves.  They took photographs and published an article about it.  I've reached out to their editor, to get a copy of that article which is no longer available online. 
It's my intention to find as many sources about Ecstatic Dance as I can, to maintain this article, and to help facilitate it's completion.
Thank you,
Sky Makai (talk) 01:30, 24 January 2018 (UTC
I'm not sure the SF article provides notability. http://www.sfgate.com/living/article/Ecstatic-dance-moves-the-spirit-soothes-the-soul-4924308.php
The article is about the 5Rhythms and not this offshoot. Two points in the article make that clear. At the end it cite Ecstatic dance: "Sweat Your Prayers" as the event attended. "Sweat Your Prayers" is part of the 5Rhythms systems, one of the more advanced workshops. Also the organisation cited is the  movingcenterschool.com which is the organisation Roth founded. Hence the citation is for  5Rhythms and not this offshoot. --Salix alba (talk): 06:36, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

The article is almost wholly uncited, and as such vulnerable both to deletion and to removal of any uncited materials by any editor. The existing materials need to be provided with reliable sources such as published books or dance magazine articles. However, that's not all.
I think (happy to be put right on this) that what has happened is that way back, say in 2009, ecstatic dance meant any sort of dance that was ecstatic, including the work of Ya' Acov Darling Khan, Gabrielle Roth and her 5Rhythms, or Biodanza (for instance), as in this Guardian article. 
This article, however, was created in 2017 by an editor called Sky Makai, who has the same name as a DJ/Producer who describes himself as an Ecstatic Dance Facilitator. The editor appears to have described one particular variant of ecstatic dance, apparently genuine, and seemingly the same as the ED facilitator's variant. 
This presents three challenges. 

First is, plainly, that the material needs to be reliably cited.
Second, the coverage needs some history and balance, so it covers the field evenly, not focussing on just one variant: or if it is going to focus on just that, then it needs to provide evidence of notability in its own right, and a less misleading article title.
Thirdly, it needs to avoid any suggestion of conflict of interest.
There are several possible ways ahead that could make sense: 

Delete the article as not notable / COI / on too recent a variant.
Rewrite the article to cover the whole field of dance-that-is-ecstatic, with a rich history.
Rename the article to something that makes it plain it's Sky-Makai-Ecstatic-Dance, and create a separate article or disambiguation page to indicate that many other kinds of ecstatic dance have long existed.
Which of these approaches do editors think would be best? Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:41, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

So there does seem to be a movement of Ecstatic Dance events. [1][2][3] These do seem distinct to Roth and the 5Rhythms. Its newer, less structured, less about being a type of therapy and probably closer to EDM type music. However from a wikipedia point of view there is no way to really gauge how big a movement this really is. There is virtually no independent reliable sources, this is quite common for physicals arts, even 5Rhythms got nominated for deletion and that's a much more established movement. There are some source, I've just added one to the article and 8 press quotes at [4]
As to the options. The movement looks bigger that just Sky-Makai. A more specific title might be appropriate at one point it was called Ecstatic Dance (Event), but possibly a hat note could disambiguate. A rewrite to a more general article would be better starting from a clean slate.
The article does go well beyond the sources, and could be cut down a lot.--Salix alba (talk): 16:17, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree we need to cut it down to what is or can be sourced. That will leave a small stub on the recent dance type(s). The main article clearly needs to start in Ancient Greece or earlier and cover the whole subject, and you are right that there's essentially nothing at all on the history just yet. I'm a bit doubtful about moving the article: we could, but there will be little content. I think for the moment we should trim, broaden, and see where that takes us. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:04, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Well, I've had a good look for sources and removed whatever I couldn't source: it's a lot shorter. I've given brief coverage of the history and mythology from around the world (well, India, Greece, South Africa: it's a start). It doesn't say anything terribly novel, but it's a lot less salesy. Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

User:Alberticus2013, Wikipedia cannot be used to advertise your own business, book, or website. Your own book is not an independent source for information about your business. It is also not true that you are the first Ecstatic dance business in Europe, as the article makes clear (look for Wosien). I've therefore removed the claim, again. Please do not try to add it yet again without discussing the matter here. Thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:34, 27 July 2020 (UTC)