# Talk:Mandera Prison

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mandera Prison/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Shushugah (talk · contribs) 21:46, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar):  b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): 

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism): 
Some of the newspapers used, like Somaliland Sun have no cited authors, yet make undue claims, for example that recently released prisoners are treated well. Given the context and lack of authorship and sensitivity, I think it is inappropriate to include as a "mixed/positive" reviews of treatment from sources like Somaliland Sun. My suggestion would be to remove it altogether.
 Done From a lack of sources with credible authors, I deleted the majority of the treatment section and redistributed the little that remained. Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 
Specifically the reviews of the prison, see previous section
Should be  Done by the actions above. Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
The images are all freely licensed, but some images like the EU/UK flag are distracting and only cover very tangential aspects of the article.
 Done Replaced the flags with two more relevant images. Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Overall:
Pass/Fail: 

after Somaliland's union with Somalia.: I am unfamiliar with Somaliland's history and am unsure what the union with Somali refers to specifically. Was there a treaty/year this happened? Are there any wiki articles you could link it to, so I can learn more?
 Done Better clarified the sentence. The information was already there, just in need of rewording. Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
"poor" conditions of living should be poor living conditions without squarequotes or grammar mistake
 Done Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
The street address seems suspect (no pun intended) but I am unsure.
 Done Found it on Google Maps, and seeing as it has been used nowhere else, it's probably best to remove it. Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
My main issue is with the sourcing/tone for the reception of prisoners about its quality. But otherwise very nice article and on its way to GA status! I will wait 1-2 weeks for you to work on it. Let me know if you have questions! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 21:59, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

@Shushugah: First and foremost, thank you so much for taking the time to review this 😁 I hope you don't mind if I ask a few follow-up questions above, as this is my first GA nomination, and I want to make sure that everything checks out before a final review. I am aware Somaliland history is a pretty niche topic, which is why I enjoy editing on it, because there is not a large crowd of other editors doing it. That being said, I am more than happy to elaborate on anything that needs clarification in regards to Somaliland history, or anything else above. Thank you again, and cheers! Johnson524 (Talk!) 02:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Ok, I think I have gotten everything. Have I missed something or done something wrong? I am happy to fix or correct whatever is needed. Cheers, Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Hello @Shushugah, I hope you're doing well 😁 Is there anything else that needs to be done to this article to improve it? Thanks! Johnson524 (Talk!) 06:01, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
I’ll give it a final review today, you were faster than I was 😅 but I always like to take a few days in case I find new sources or issues.  ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 13:34, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Congratulations on a good article! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 20:35, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Thank you so much for going through this process @Shushugah, this is my very first one! Johnson524 (Talk!) 21:02, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

@Samyatilius, @YesI'mOnFire, @Idoghor Melody, @Miminity: Let me know what you all think, but I believe the information covered in the new page Mandera Assault is already well covered on this page and the 1988 Hargeisa-Burao offensive article. Having a separate article about it would lead to a further duplication of information, which isn't necessarily bad, but while the page is still new, this would be the best time to merge it. I would be happy to preform the merge if that is what's agreed upon, as some of the sources used on the page could potentially be used in the aforementioned articles. Cheers! Johnson524 16:20, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Weak Support. The Mandera Assault one is written like a WP:POVFORK as of now. So merging it as of now is a good idea. Though, if someone add more significant content, please ping me and I'll change my vote. Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 07:43, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Weak Support. As Johnson said, some information already exists in the previous articles, so merging it would be a good idea, providing there is no significant content added. However, I am mostly concerned with the neutrality of the new page, as the tone used in the article seems to praise the operation very heavily, and should be changed accordingly. 🔥YesI'mOnFire🔥(ContainThisEmber?) 14:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
Merged/Redirected I went ahead with the weak merge consensus for the neutrality, duplication of information, and WP:POVFORK reasons above, but also because 2 of the 5 citations on the page currently violate both WP:BLOG and WP:FORUM. The remaining three don't scream reliability either, like this self published one, and this extremely hard to read one from 2006, though admittedly after some digging found better versions of (See 1 and 2). The last source is the most reliable looking of the bunch, but the video is entirely in Somali, and I'm not confident enough to translate it all. For the numerous issues and lack of recent discussion I am going to be WP:BOLD and go ahead with the merge, but as a compromise I am adding a ref ideas template to the top of this page for possible contributions with the better of the sources in the future. Cheers! Johnson524 01:39, 16 April 2025 (UTC)
The information formerly covered in this page is among the most prominent moments throughout the course of the military career of mohamed hashi lihle, and the somaliland war of independence, its what led to the somali National movement becoming a capable political and military movement subsequently leading to the ousting barre’s regime and restoration of the independence of Somaliland. if needed i can contribute more detailed information about this, with reliable sources by reliable authors. But i highly believe this deserves its own wikipage and encourage you all to atleast restore and review my new editions if agreed with me on this. because being sandwiched in the middle of a two separate pages doesn’t seem to do it enough justice. the event was praised by multiple international organizations and media as being one of the most striking events of the war. Samyatilius (talk) 08:04, 19 July 2025 (UTC)
Hello @Samyatilius, and thank you for your continued desire to improve Wikipedia's coverage of this important part of Somaliland's history 🙂 I completely agree that the Mandera Assault should not be "sandwiched" between two separate pages, as it does not give justice to what a significant turning point it was for the SNM. My primary concern with the original page, and the reason it was ultimately deleted, was its poor sourcing. As I described above, of the five sources used on the page: two were blogs/forums, which are WP:PRIMARY and in this case should not be used in any capacity since they were written by anonymous, unverified individuals, and the third was a self-published source which I'd be very cautious of using, if at all (see WP:USESPS for details). The final two sources (1 (page 1), 1 (page 2), and 2) appear to be reliable WP:SECONDARY sources with at least some level of fact checking, which can be used on the page.
However, for such a turning point in the SNM's history to have only two reliable sources, especially when more detailed information about the prison break and quality sources were available in related articles like this one and the 1988 Hargeisa-Burao offensive article, I decided to merge/redirect the page. Additionally, even after four months of an active merger discussion on this talk page, there was no significant effort to improve the article to meet WP:THREE.
Moving forward, if you would like to re-create the page with these considerations in mind, please feel free to do so, but do so as a draft here: Draft:Mandera Assault. This way, once you are happy with the draft and submit it for review, an editor uninvolved in this conversation can determine if it meets Wikipedia's standards before moving it back to the mainspace. Finally, I want to emphasize that perfection is not required to create a Wikipedia article. However, the page in its previous state did not meet the minimum requirements despite having ample time for improvement. I hope this explanation helps and I'm sorry for my delay in giving one. Please feel free to reach out at any time if you have further questions or comments. Thank you again for your contributions. Johnson524 16:53, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
Alright thank you, i’ll be sure to use reliable sources this time, sorry for the inconvenience Samyatilius (talk) 10:49, 21 July 2025 (UTC)
@Samyatilius: No inconvenience at all! Good luck on recreating the page, I'd be happy to help if you have any specific questions. Johnson524 02:51, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

@YesI'mOnFire@Idoghor@Melody@Miminity@Johnson524
The information formerly covered in this page is among the most prominent moments throughout the course of the military career of mohamed hashi lihle, and the somaliland war of independence, its what led to the somali National movement becoming a capable political and military movement subsequently leading to the ousting barre’s regime and restoration of the independence of Somaliland.
if needed i can contribute more detailed information about this, with reliable sources by reliable authors.
But i highly believe this deserves its own wikipage and encourage you all to atleast restore and review my new editions if agreed with me on this. because being sandwiched in the middle of a two separate pages doesn’t seem to do it enough justice.
the event was praised by multiple international organizations and media as being one of the most striking events of the war. Samyatilius (talk) 04:18, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Page i was referring to was the madera assault Samyatilius (talk) 04:19, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
See reply above in Talk:Mandera Prison#Merger discussion. Cheers! Johnson524 16:54, 20 July 2025 (UTC)