# Talk:Institutes (Gaius)

@Ravenpuff Thanks for your work on the article! I have one concern regarding the title change: While I do not object to the new title (I do not care either way), I enjoy consistency and therefore orientated myself on the article Institutes of Justinian. So I think that either the other article should be moved as well or this article should keep its former name. Thanks for considering! WatkynBassett (talk) 10:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

@WatkynBassett: I've moved that article as well, for the same reasons as for this one ("Institutes" being the only official part of the work title). Thanks for letting me know! — RAVENPVFF · talk · 14:22, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

I've linked to Gaius (jurist) or to this article dozens of times, which means that I've worked with a lot of scholarship that references the Institutiones. I have never seen it described as a "beginner's textbook", and it certainly isn't treated as such by scholars of Roman law. To me, a "beginner's textbook" means something that is dumbed down for a general learner – if we described something as a "beginner's textbook" on cell biology, we would doubt whether it was a sound-enough RS. Again, that isn't how I see scholars who specialize in Roman law treat with the Institutiones. It may be a misleading way to begin the article, and if there isn't an English-language source (not a translation) that specifically calls it that, I would suggest looking for another descriptive term. Cynwolfe (talk) 15:23, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

@Cynwolfe: As the creator of the page, I appreciate your careful thoughts on the matter. Lots of German scholarship exist on the Institutes which usually calls it a Anfängerlehrbuch, meaning that it was written for newly minted law students. The following English-language article, for example, explains that the Institutes were written for first year law students: Stagl, 2016. Accordingly, the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy describes it as an "introductory textbook": REP. If the wording of "beginners' textbook" sounds wrong to you, I would be happy for your suggestions for a better wording (maybe simply "introductory textbook"?). As I have put the article up for a GA review - I would be honored if you find time and energy to review it (although I must admit that I could not engage with a review in the next two weeks as I am travelling at the moment). Best regards WatkynBassett (talk) 21:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
I suspected that some magnificent German word underlay this! Things so often sound dumbed-down in English from German. So it seems more like a reference work rather than a teaching text or schoolbook, which is what "beginner's textbook" sounds like to me. If I see some brilliant phrase, I'll make note of it. I do have some reservations about a GA for English WP that relies so heavily on non-English sources without more English-language sources for verification. Cynwolfe (talk) 00:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)