# Talk:Capture of the Caen Canal and Orne River bridges

Please add and cite Strength & Casualties, thanks. Kirk (talk) 18:30, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Penny Bates brought together the private papers of her father, Maj John Howard, to create 'The Pegasus Diaries'[TPD]; a significant part of the 'Diaries' is John Howard's Five Year Diary of the War.  On p. 86 of TPD we read that, on 23 March 1944, Howard was at a brefing for a full-scale divisional exercise that would include D Coy OBLI 'landing' and capturing three small bridges. He wrote, 'The overall military exercise for the rehearsal of D-Day was to become known as Operation DEADSTICK, and I would realize in due course that this was the first part.'
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Marve001 (talk) 22:27, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

What do the secondary sources cited in the article say about this? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:33, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Cited to Fowler in lead that the operation was called Deadstick, without going back into the library's that's all I can remember. However Google has some results [1] on a web search and a books search has several references.[2]. Jim Sweeney (talk) 07:48, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Gentlemen,
If Major John Howard, Officer Commanding the Coup De Main, says the exercise was called Operation Deadstick then that's all the evidence we need; after all, he is a Primary Source, so outweighs all Secondary Sources.
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Marve001 (talk) 17:14, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Strange though it may be, Wikipedia does not work like that. Please read WP:PRIMARY.
Incidentally, can I assume you're aware that "Coup de main" is a noun phrase in itself? So that one can correctly say "Operation Deadstick was a coup de main"? Both of you may be interested that the article Coup de main also mentions what we're discussing. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:35, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Search on 'Deadstick' 
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Marve001 (talk) 20:16, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Coup de main also has another references for the name In several written sources, quite notably "The Eagle" which is the Glider Pilot Regiment Association magazine it states that the landing at Pegasus Bridge had the official name Operation Deadstick. A point worth adding? Reference can be found on page 6 of Vol.10 No.9 2004 edition Jim Sweeney (talk) 20:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
I have that article in front of me and nowhere does it state that "the landing at Pegasus Bridge had the official name Operation Deadstick"; it refers to the surviving pilots who took part in Operation Deadstick but does not link that name to the coup de main.
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Marve001 (talk) 20:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Book results for Operation Deadstick name
Pegasus Bridge - Ambrose page 61
Pegasus Bridge - Benouville, D-Day 1944 - Fowler page 12
Voices of D-Day: The Story of the Allied Invasion, Told by Those Who Were There - Drez page 44
Raiders: World War Two True Stories - Kemp page 241
Airborne armour: Tetrarch, Locust, Hamilcar and the 6th Airborne Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment, 1938-50 - Flint page 95
One night in June: the story of Operation Tonga, the initial phase of the invasion of Normandy, 1944 - Shannon & Wright page 27
D-Day then and now - Volume 1 - Ramsey page 258
Surprise attack: lightning strikes of the world's elite forces - Darman
The Airborne - Brown & Reed page 54
I did search for "'Operation Coup De Main" with a negative result. Jim Sweeney (talk) 03:06, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Here're two references: 
http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropgb/en_page.php?page=tonga
http://www.americandday.org/D-Day/Operation_Tonga-Order_of_battle.html
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Marve001 (talk) 19:53, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

They appear to be mirror sites and unfortunately are not classed as reliable. Jim Sweeney (talk) 19:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Accepted.
I now realise that I am, in some way, incorrect in my knowledge; having spoken to fellow airborne historians, the truth of the matter is that the Divisional exercise was called 'Deadstick' and this name stuck for the landing, in an UNOFFICIAL capacity; it was never the official code name, which was 'Coup de Main'. Unfortunately, the only sources for this are primary and therefore not admissable as evidence in Wiki articles. However, I think if, in the article's opening sentence, the word 'code' was changed to 'unofficial' then we would have an accurate description.
I leave it with you.
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Marve001 (talk) 13:08, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

The 6th Airborne retained control of the area between the Rivers Orne and Dives until 14 June, when the 51st (Highland) Infantry Division took over the southern part of the Orne bridgehead. In the weeks that followed, the 6th Airborne Division was reinforced by the Dutch Princess Irene Brigade and the 1st Belgian Infantry Brigade. A period of static warfare ended on 22 August, when the division crossed the River Dives. Within nine days the 6th Airborne Division had advanced 45 miles (72 km) to the mouth of the River Seine. Between 6 June and 26 August, when they were pulled out of the front line the division's casualties were; 821 killed, 2,709 wounded, and 927 missing.

As per the edit summary, I do not see why using an operation name is an improvement. For those that are totally absorbed in the detail of military history, this might be great, but operation names have no meaning for the encyclopaedia reader for whom this project is intended. One might just about get away with Operation Overlord on a scale of general comprehensibility, but that's it. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 06:44, 5 August 2021 (UTC)