# Talk:Main Quad (Stanford University)

Campus Plan – About Stanford. "The Stanfords... wanted the Main Quadrangle and the Palm Drive main entrance to reflect European Beaux Arts formalism...  The rectangular plan of the Main Quadrangle was designed to provide for expansion through a series of quadrangles developed laterally."
Use of Main Quad & Memorial Court Policy – Office of Special Events & Protocol, Stanford University. Describes limits to what kinds of special events can take place in the Quad.
Panoramic image, possibly suitable for "External links"
Stanford University: Main Quadrangle, Architectural Resources Group. A very little bit of detail about architectural restoration and conservation work.
Historic photos of the Main Quad, from the Stanford Historical Photograph Collection, hosted by Historypin
"The Great Earthquake", a 1908 description of damage to Stanford in the 1906 quake, with lots of detail about the Quad.
"All Shook Up: Stanford’s earthquake history", The Stanford Daily. A comparison of two earthquakes.
"Earthquake: Recovery Still Not Complete" (October 12, 1994) Palo Alto Online. Some details about damage from the 1989 earthquake.
Flickr search, looking for images that can be uploaded to Commons because they have the right license. Note that US law does not include freedom of panorama, such that images of sculpture and art newer than 70 years or so are not allowed on Wikipedia.
"Stanford’s recent history of protests and student activism", a 2003 protest in the Quad. More of the same.
1994 protest in the Main Quad regarding Hispanic studies, the firing of Burciaga. More of the same.
2007 protest in Bldg 10 of the Quad. More of the same.
1998 protest in the Quad
"Quadmented", a virtual augmented history tour
The annual Stanford Band Run concludes in the Quad.
"Full Moon on the Quad", a kissing event
The Main Quad was once a grazing pasture for horses.
Have fun writing the article! Binksternet (talk) 04:27, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

I used several of these for the earthquake information. --MelanieN (talk) 17:10, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

In the lead, do you think we need to say where Stanford is? Or can we just assume that everybody knows, or if anyone wants to know they can click on the link? (I see that we describe Stanford's location as "in the northern Silicon Valley near Palo Alto, California.") --MelanieN (talk) 20:49, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

I've placed in California and added the coordinates.  My instinct is that almost all people wanting to read this article will know about the University and if they don't they should read that article first.  We should probably not repeat too much info contained in the main university article.  --Erp (talk) 22:50, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

As a legacy of the original plan which called for several quads adjacent to the main quad (I can't imagine what 5 structures the size of the main quad would have looked like) Stanford is divided into a multitude of quads (14) though most don't look like quads and the nomenclature is mostly used by facilities/building managers.  The main quad is quad 01 (so building 460 is officially 01-460).  The library quad to the east with Green, Meyer, Hoover (which really doesn't look like a quad) is 03.  The Engineering Quad which does now have a quad to the west of the main quad is 04.  02 is the area behind the main quad and so on. --Erp (talk) 23:39, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

I think the managers are using "quad" loosely to mean "cluster of buildings". I don't think we need to mention any of this in this article. IMO the only one really referred to as a Quad by the public is the Science and Engineering Quad (SEQ).  --MelanieN (talk) 23:55, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
True not to mention though SEQ is harking back to the original plan.  I wonder if we can find an image of that which is usable in wikipedia.  You can see it at http://facts.stanford.edu/about/lands with the original idea of seven quads in a line (though only three might have been conceived as buildings and only one actually built). --Erp (talk) 02:09, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm wondering if that paragraph in the "History" section, about the architecture and its setting the style for the rest of Stanford and so on, really belongs in the History section. Maybe it would go better in the Description section. What do you think? --MelanieN (talk) 23:54, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Thoughts on what needs doing now that I've pillaged wikimedia commons for pictures (there is also a picture of the cornerstone but I don't think it is interesting enough, plenty also of the church but that has its own article).  Edited as needed, note when done. --Erp (talk) 00:15, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Description - What are we missing?
The statues on the front of  Gutenberg, Franklin, Agassiz, and Humboldt and that originals of the first two went missing so that recently replacements were made.  http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/february/statues-replace-wallenberg-020513.html
Should the plaques in Memorial Court be noted?
Should the drinking fountains be noted (they were donated by some of the classes and are rather elaborate)
The archways (I've done info on the walkways and added a picture--Erp (talk) 02:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC))
The east and west gatehouses (done briefly, --Erp (talk) 02:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC))
Expand history
when did the inner quad buildings go from one high story to two short stories (the outer quad buildings also got squeezed in the pursuit of space)?  Perhaps get an interior picture of bldg 30 which has the original one story structure.
What about planting (the courtyard wasn't bricked until sometime in the 1980s (it was asphalt before) and the planting circles were redone then also).  I see some mentions of Thomas Church doing extensive work on the gardens.
some bits on where the sandstone was gotten in http://historicalsociety.stanford.edu/pdfST/ST34no3.pdf
An annotated map (Added a rough map, --Erp (talk) 01:04, 21 July 2014 (UTC))
My recommendations are as follows:

Move the table of buildings down so that it is the last thing before the References section. It is otherwise a barrier to smooth reading flow. removed, integrated necessary text into article--Erp (talk) 03:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Add the bit about the land formerly being horse pasture. (do we have a cite?--Erp (talk) 02:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC) I note the reference is a throwaway remark in a Daily article which might not be the most reliable source --Erp (talk) 01:04, 21 July 2014 (UTC))
Add the bit about the Stanfords wanting a Beaux Arts layout. It's not all Mission Revival. This still needs work--Erp (talk) 03:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Break out the various sculptures into their own section. Add some detail about the main ones, such as Rodin's. Broken out but expansion needed--Erp (talk) 03:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Describe how George Segal's Gay Liberation sculpture at Stanford was a second casting, but it was placed first at Stanford, long before the first casting in New York City was placed, because NYC came up against local opposition. A third casting was placed in Madison, Wisconsin.[1] In May 1994 after the sculpture was placed at the Quad it was vandalized by seven students and required thorough restoration.[2]
Add a section on activities in the Quad, including the Band Run and the Full Moon kissing.
In the activities section, make a paragraph about protests that have been held in the Quad, beginning with the fact that protests are not allowed: "Unscheduled events and other unsanctioned gatherings such as any activities with amplified sound, marches, rallies, and performances are prohibited." Despite not being allowed, historically some protests have occurred.
I like the annotated map idea; such a map could replace the table of buildings. Done though it is rought --Erp (talk) 03:47, 4 August 2014 (UTC) Binksternet (talk) 00:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
I'll work on the statues/sculptures; others are welcome to beat me to it. I think let's not mention the water fountains or the plaques. And I don't think there's much to say about the archways, gatehouses,  converting to two stories, and bricking the inner quad. But it could be interesting to find something about the planters. --MelanieN (talk) 01:46, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
I've moved the table down.  Its main purpose right now is to organize some of the info about the individual buildings and should probably go in the long run especially if we can get the annotated map (I see the map as numbers and then caption text giving some of the details about alternative names, more extensive stuff can go in the regular text).   Gay Liberation btw was vandalized thrice at Stanford (1984, 1985 and 1994) the third time  the culprits were caught  (see also at [3]).  The no protests policy is relatively recent I think and I can think of a huge number of protests there ranging from graduate students protesting housing problems (high cost off-campus, limited amount on campus, they set up pup tents), to the protest at the centennial celebration (the state governor, Pete Wilson, who spoke had very shortly before vetoed AB 101 which would have given protection to gay and lesbian employees; he had been expected to sign it) to more recently Falun Gong groups leafleting  Chinese tour groups (for some reason the tour groups like doing the campus at 9am on Sundays, probably because nothing else is open).  Might be tricky to cover the protests. --Erp (talk) 02:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the picture of the arch. (Fallen arches?) Every time I see a picture of it I think - thank God it fell down! and was never re-erected. What a hideous thing it was - and according to old pictures it totally blocked the view of Mem Church from Palm Drive. 
Writing this has reminded me of a couple of old jokes which I don't guess we can use - even though I can source both of them. The statue of Agassiz sticking out of the walkway reminds me of a witticism one of the professors made at the time: "I have always preferred Agassiz in the abstract to Agassiz in the concrete." And of course the joke Cal students make, that Stanford's campus is "the world's largest Taco Bell." There, something to share among friends rather than put in the article. 
Similarly, I wonder if I can find the old (1950s-1960s) restrictions about student behavior on Quad - no smoking, no drinking, no bike riding, women (or in those days "girls") had to wear skirts - all immortalized in the student song from my day "No smoking on the Quad, by God." Well, again, probably not something to include. --MelanieN (talk) 01:39, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Well http://historicalsociety.stanford.edu/pdf/ApirationsandRestrictions.pdf has something but only as a side mention (note that no smoking is back).  Hitting the Stanford history bookcase in the reading room in Green Library should be useful (though we can't really use the old Quads as sources (except for pictures that are out of copyright from the really old ones)).   Sometime soon they should be putting the archives of the Stanford Daily (right now on microfiche) online which will be a bonanza.  The earthquake was very good at removing some of the worst bits of architecture at Stanford (I think MemChu losing its steeple and the statues of the apostles was also an improvement). For the 1989 earthquake it might be nice to have a picture of one of the temporary arch supports (they university put up a lot of wooden frames to support some of the walkway arches and then got the art students to decorate them)--Erp (talk) 02:01, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, those are improvements. The "aspirations and restrictions" link was an interesting read although I didn't see anything we could use. Interesting that they could still sing about "no smoking" today - although given California in the 2010s, that restriction probably applies everywhere. I wonder if "no drinking on the quad, by God" and "no necking on the quad, by God" still apply. Agree about the earthquake "improvements" to Mem Chu. --MelanieN (talk) 03:16, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Well I think they may serve the wine at the reunion dinners and I don't think it is against the rules to drink (as long as you are 21 or older) but most people are likely to do it at Tresidder (where one can buy beer) or in the dorms not in the Quad (except at events like Full Moon).   Necking still seems to be going on (did you have Full Moon in the Quad back then? I know it was in business in the late 70s but it seems to have gotten a bit wilder since).  Smoking in general has gone way down at Stanford and not just because of restrictions as to place (banned in all buildings, banned in the hospital/medical school area, banned near all buildings or bus stops). --Erp (talk) 04:33, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
We had Full Moon but it was very different. It was called "becoming a Stanford woman" - which required being kissed by a senior on Inner Quad under a full moon. It was every month and was a quiet, private affair. Couples stood around the middle of the Quad and at midnight they kissed. Voila! Another Stanford Woman! (A tradition probably invented by the kiss-starved guys; in those days the undergraduate student body was only one-fourth female, by policy - the infamous "Stanford ratio".)
Smoking is down everywhere in California, but especially at Stanford. I read somewhere that fewer than 1% of Stanford students smoke, and only a few percent of faculty. That's a nice change from the early 60s when people could smoke pretty much anywhere - they didn't even take smoker/nonsmoker into account when assigning roommates! --MelanieN (talk) 15:17, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I've added a map I've created using Inkscape which is very rough but will give us something to work with (it is also in SVG so easily editable).  I've also contacted someone who should be able to get me dimensions (e.g., length, width of the entire structure and of the inner quad courtyard).  --Erp (talk) 00:57, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Erp and Melanie, this is a good looking article. I've nominated it for DYK here. Mind, a couple sentences could use referencing. These four stick out most:

Memorial Court is the site for figures from Rodin's The Burghers of Calais.
Adjacent to the Main Quad at the Math Corner is George Segal's "Gay Liberation" statue.
Also in that area is the Frances C. Arrillaga, wife of John Arrillaga, memorial with its unusual acoustic property.
Behind the church is the Keith Memorial Terrace with its roses and fountain dedicated to the memory of Captain Willard W. Keith, Jr. (class of 1941) who was killed at Guadacanal in November 1942. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:34, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
I already cited the Burghers of Calais when I moved the image. I look for something on the others. --MelanieN (talk) 02:56, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
I referenced the Gay Liberation statue (interesting history there!) and the Keith Terrace. Was unable to find sourcing for the Arrillaga memorial. --MelanieN (talk) 03:22, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Looks like Erp got it. Thanks. If either of you want to suggest alternate hooks at the nomination, please feel free. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:40, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
As for Gay Liberation - I think there's another article there, if we can get another two or three sources. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:43, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Bit tricky finding info on the Arrillaga (or the Keith Memorial Terrace).  For the latter, I used the plaque affixed there to give some more info.  For Arrillaga I used something from the Stanford Review which isn't ideal though most of what I know is from one of the official Stanford docents (and someone with 50+ years of Stanford experience) and it jives.  The architecture style/history section still needs work, and, I'm trying to think whether there are any major areas we haven't but should mention in the article.  BTW  http://historicalsociety.stanford.edu/pdfST/ST24no2_3.pdf on the vision has some useful info.  --Erp (talk) 04:46, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Glad you suggested taking another look at the history section. It turned out that the actual architect of the Quad was not Olmstead but a different firm! I also added some more detail about the construction and an additional image. --MelanieN (talk) 17:58, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
BTW I forgot to say (since you added it while I was gone), but that annotated map you created is brilliant! Clear, easy to read, contains all the necessary information. It's better than most commercially produced maps including those of the Stanford campus. Great work! --MelanieN (talk) 18:14, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
@Crisco 1492: Re your comment above, about the Gay Liberation statue deserving an article: I just discovered that it already has one, Gay Liberation Monument. The article was mostly about the New York installation but I added more information about the Stanford sculpture. --MelanieN (talk) 18:38, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Awesome! Thank you, Another Believer. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:43, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
I am glad to see the article being expanded. The categories and infobox may need some work, but at least now there is more information for readers. ----Another Believer (Talk) 23:17, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Today's Featured Picture on the front page is the magnificent panorama of the Quad by User:King of Hearts, which is also featured at the bottom of this article. I really think this is the best photo I have ever seen of the Quad. Thanks to Crisco for suggesting that this article be created in time to be linked to the Featured Picture, and thanks to Erp for undertaking its creation. We have needed this article for a long time. --MelanieN (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Shucks. I'm pretty sure Erp came up with the idea. I just scheduled the image. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:26, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

"The Inner Quad consists of a large courtyard surrounded by twelve connected buildings (numbered clockwise, 1 through 110)". This snippet of information is curious enough to be the hook on the Main Page today, but the numbering system isn't explained anywhere in the article. Colonies Chris (talk) 16:28, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure anyone has ever explained the why of the numbering scheme (though which building is which is on the map).  Basically it starts at bldg. 1 which houses administrative offices then clockwise around the inner quad, jumps to the outer quad and continues clockwise around it.  The interior room numbering gets even more interesting. --Erp (talk) 05:19, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

"The Main Quad is built on a slight slope so that though the back of the structure is level with the ground, the front is elevated" The central lawn appears to be level. What is "the structure" being refered to, among so many?--Wetman (talk) 17:03, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

"The structure" refers to the entire Quad, inner and outer. The Quad itself is level, but the ground it is built on has a slight slope, climbing from front to back. The result is that the back of the Quad is at ground level, but the front of the Quad is higher than ground level and has to be entered via steps. --MelanieN (talk) 17:12, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Though the four corners of the quad have been traditionally named Math, History, Geology, and Engineering (or later Language when the language departments completely replace the engineering departments in that part of the Quad), three of them officially now have other names since about 1996/1998 when three families that had donated heavily in restoring the university after the 1989 quake were honored.   History is now Lane History Corner and I think the article sufficiently covers that.  Language Corner is officially Pigott Hall (though I'm not sure how much that name has replaced the previous when people refer to the building).   The Pigott family connection dates to the 1920s and was represented by Charles Pigott who was a university trustee in the 1990s; the family fortune I think is from Paccar.[4]  The Braun family connection goes back to the beginning of the university and at the renaming Henry Braun seems to be the family representative.  I'm not sure of exactly how they are connected to the university (there is also Braun Music Center).  So one question is how to handle in the article the official names versus the names people actually use.  Another is does have anyone have sources giving more info on the Brauns and Pigotts?  Also does anyone know how McClatchy Hall got its name? --Erp (talk) 01:50, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I think these are all adequately covered except for McClatchy Hall. I'll work on that. --MelanieN (talk) 01:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Here is a McClatchy but it's hard to see any connection with the hall - or even with Stanford in the bio provided.
This undated picture makes me think it's had that name for quite a while.
That's all I could find. I guess we could simply document, that it is called McClatchy Hall which is easy to do. --MelanieN (talk) 02:07, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
The earliest the bldg. name is used that I could find in the Daily archives was in the 1980s.  The family was heavily involved in the newspaper business and this building does house the Communication department (and has done so since at least 1980).  So if not Carlos is could be some other member of the family. I note his son, Charles K. McClatchy[5] who died in 1989, graduated from Stanford in 1950. But we have no firm evidence. Document the name is all for the moment.--Erp (talk) 04:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Done. MelanieN alt (talk) 21:04, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

I think we need to find some historical information on the tradition.   I did a dive into the Daily archives and found the men doing a pajama walk under the full moon (but not in the Quad) in 1912/1913.   A senior roller-skating party under the full moon in the Quad in May 1934.  In August 1949 the president of the university and his wife had an informal reception under the full moon in the Quad. September 1952 is the first mention of the current tradition (and it is described as a "time-honored Inner Quad tradition" and "Yes, it has long been said that a Stanford girl becomes a Stanford woman only when kissed by a senior man in front of Memorial Church under the light of a full moon" (The Stanford Daily, Volume 122, Issue 1, 26 September 1952, page 2; I note this is the first issue of the year and it would not at all surprise me if this 'time-honored' tradition had just been created by some senior men out to deceive some newly arrived frosh women; or it may have been under the radar, the next mention isn't until 1956 and that very much seems to be couples on their own).  More recent full moons have been more parties with lots of kissing, drinking, etc. and only happen at the first full moon of the Autumn quarter.   Can't find anything in the historical association web site.  --Erp (talk) 17:54, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

So too an outsider—which most readers of this article will likely be—the important element of this event seems to be kissing beneath a full moon. That's what I'd encourage you to add to this article, but of course if you feel it merits a more in-depth discussion in the article, go for it. Just my two cents! Good job with the article! BobAmnertiopsis∴ChatMe! 18:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I'd avoid the historical detail and just describe what it is now. It is under the "current use" section after all. A sentence should be enough for this article IMO. The expansion and history (which I would love to see) should go in the main article Stanford University, maybe under "Traditions". --MelanieN (talk) 18:15, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Maybe we could just add something to the existing sentence, supported by the existing reference, for example "; according to tradition a Stanford Girl becomes a Stanford Woman if she is kissed by a senior under a full moon in Inner Quad." What do you think? Meanwhile I would love to see a full paragraph about this tradition (which is quite a different affair now from when I was at Stanford; at that time the tradition was mostly a private affair between couples and was valid any month of the year. Yeah, I know, Original Research.) --MelanieN (talk) 18:22, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps something like "A long-standing tradition is Full Moon in the Quad. In its oldest form it was 'a Stanford girl becomes a Stanford woman ... when kissed by a senior man in front of Memorial Church under the light of a full moon'(1952 reference); now it is a party with much kissing held on the first full moon of the school year" (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/orgy-stanford-freshmen-love-full-moon-quad/story?id=20759670).  --Erp (talk) 19:33, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I like that - let's go with it! (I tweaked the punctuation a little - sorry, I was once a professional proofreader so I can't help it.) --MelanieN (talk) 19:57, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

The Alumni magazine had an article, https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=36704, on Bldg. 30 (also 160).  Bldg. 30 is unique in the Quad buildings (other than the church) because its interior is very close to how it originally looked. --Erp (talk) 00:27, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like that would be worth adding.  --MelanieN (talk) 01:15, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

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Given that the Main Quad is fairly big I'm inclined to go with 37.427°N 122.170°W﻿ / 37.427; -122.170  rather than the overly precise 37.4275°N 122.1703°W﻿ / 37.4275; -122.1703.  Abductive (talk · contribs) disagrees and states "In English, "Quad" refers to the grassy area in between the buildings".  There are two problems with that (a) this article is about the "Main Quad" which is a complex of buildings and, less importantly, (b) the Inner Quad where he put the coordinate is not grassy. We could use 37.428°N 122.170°W﻿ / 37.428; -122.170 which is .001 of a degree north of the first coordinate which would put it in the largest bit of grass in the Main Quad (i.e., Memorial Court).  --Erp (talk) 03:56, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

The answer in this case is the center of the quad, which is easy to achieve with d.dddd. You are playing some game based on your notion that there is some rule that says one must use d.ddd. And given that people are regularly using d.dddddd everywhere, one should be careful calling a harmless d.dddd edit "overprecise", especially coming from a guy who missed an arboretum with his d.ddd coords. Abductive (reasoning) 06:18, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

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I did some rewording since Jordan Hall is no longer called that.  Also replaced the links to the various specific statues on it and Wallenberg since the articles about them are not notable and don't contain any more info than what we have here (links now go to the person themself).  The articles are also likely to be removed in the near future (other than the Statue of Louis Agassiz which is maybe notable both for what happened in the 1906 earthquake and its recent removal; I created a separate link for it). Erp (talk) 21:07, 15 January 2024 (UTC)