# Talk:Geography of Middle-earth

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Rushdown (Middle-earth). Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so.  Hog Farm (talk) 03:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect List of Middle-earth rivers. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 14#List of Middle-earth rivers until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Hog Farm  Bacon 23:53, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

How is the Origins section and its map not pure WP:OR and WP:SYNTH? Does a text or map exist where JRR or Christopher Tolkien make the presented associations? How are the personal seculations of John Garth substantial or even notable? ♆ CUSH ♆ 09:55, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

All the statements both in the text and in the image are reliably cited, so nothing is original research by any editor. John Garth is a respected biographer and Tolkien scholar. His statements about the origins of Middle-earth's geographic features are (as cited in text and caption) in his book The Worlds of J. R. R. Tolkien. That book has been reviewed favourably by Tolkien scholars, by newspapers including The Times, and by literary critics including in the New York Journal of Books. Several of the statements actually stem from Tolkien himself, for example his letter #168 links Gondor and Venice. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Gondor sketch map.svg
Sketch Map of Middle-earth.svg
Sketch Map of The Shire.svg
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:12, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

What [abuse contrary to Wikipedia policy deleted] is the apparent link of Mordor with Germany on this map 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Middle-earth?#Origins 2003:DC:7F13:F313:2947:AFD4:6B38:89C (talk) 18:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

No abuse on talk pages please.
No, no connection with Germany at all. The map shows Mordor has 2 influences --- the Battle of the Somme (in France), in which Tolkien took part; and the Black Country (in England), near where he grew up. The placement of the Middle-earth boxes is just anywhere near the real-world points, placed so that lines do not overlap.
As for Germany, not mentioned on the map at all, Tolkien was unequivocal that there was no equation of wartime enemy with evil: the line between good and evil ran through every human heart, so there was no 'good' or 'bad' side, even if there were ignorant leaders. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:47, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Under Misty Mountains:

…and the all-year Redhorn Pass further south near Moria.
The Redhorn Pass was not "all-year". It could be blocked by bad weather, especially in winter by big snowfalls. In particular the Fellowship of the Ring tried, without success, to use the Redhorn Pass before they felt compelled to pass the Misty Mountains through Moria. — Tonymec (talk) 22:52, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

It was blocked by supernatural means. The party had expected to get through. Chiswick Chap (talk) 01:38, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Sketch Map of Middle-earth.svg
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:36, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Well that can't be right. Tolkien was truly bad at science, but even he must have been aware that the solar system comprises more than the earth, sun, moon, and whatever it is that that Aman object is supposed to be.
So I challenge the use of the phrase Solar System; I don't think Tolkien ever used that to describe what it being described here. I am convinced he knew about the other planets in our solar system, and his correspondence with CS Lewis re the latter's space exploration books should suffice.
I do accept that it was used by some equally science-illiterate Tolkien scholar, but that does not warrant the inclusion of this nonsense. 2A02:A44E:E127:0:E1EE:3067:D3EC:3436 (talk) 14:13, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughts. Wikipedia is an evidence-based encyclopedia, and so we have to go by the reliably-published sources. You may like to note that scholarship is open to full-voiced and expert criticism, so scholars cannot get away with nonsense: they will swiftly be corrected. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:29, 17 July 2025 (UTC)