# Talk:Elephanta Caves

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm just going to forewarn you that I've never attempted to post on Wikipedia before, so be gentle.  
The reason I am posting is to suggest that the date given for the creation of the cave-temple on Elephanta island known by the same name is at the very least inaccurately representing the dates that modern Elephanta scholars normally use.  While it has not been unquestionable proven, to my knowledge, that a date in the early ninth-century is incorrect, simply giving a ninth-century date without including the range of other equally probable dates is misleading.  Most modern scholars generally assign a mid to late sixth-century date for the creation of Elephanta, so editing the page to express the range of possibilities for a date for Elephanta would be prudent.  Dating at Elephanta is crucial for scholarship since much of the artwork at Elephanta can be linked to textual sources.  A ninth-century date would, for example, force us to take into consideration the possible influence of other texts as well as other visual works, like the relief of Ravana shaking Mt. Kailasa at Ellora, dated to the eight-century (Elephanta possesses a relief that is highly similar to Ellora's in its formal composition).  As I noted, it is not yet possible to rule out a ninth-century date, but by failing to note that it is generally thought to have been constructed in the sixth, we lose Elephanta's possible association with the Kalacuri dynasty.  I believe this page needs to be edited to suggest that a date anywhere from the sixth to the ninth century is possible, and that it is just as likely (and supported by modern scholarship) that the sixth-century Kalacuri dynasty oversaw its construction as it is to suggest that a ninth-century dynasty did.  Thanks!
Maukamanhattan (talk) 23:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Elephanta Caves/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 03:25, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


### Checklist
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality: 

B. MoS compliance: 

Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources: 

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary: 

C. No original research: 

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects: 

B. Focused: 

Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias: 

Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc: 

Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales: 

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions: 

Overall:
Pass or Fail: 
Congrats!


### Suggestions
Okay, to start off with, if you're going to nominate this for FA, all the images will need ALT text. This allows the visually impaired to have a description of the picture read aloud to them. See WP:ALT for more information. You have several web references that have no access dates. The article needs a copyedit, just like the last one I reviewed for you, but I'm not going to have time to do the copyedit myself, so you're going to need to find someone for that. Other stuff looks pretty good. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 02:22, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:ALT was never a Wikipedia:Good article criteria (criterion), it is not a WP:FA? now. If I have time, I will try to do it. I try to take care of the rest. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  03:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Good article criteria is to comply with the Manual of Style, and the Manual of Style requires ALT text. While traditionally this has not been required for GAs (and I'm not going to require it to pass it, either), I'm just letting you know that they'll ask for it if you nominate it for FA. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 08:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
That's what I am telling you, ALT is no more a criterion at FAC too. See [1] and is removed from FA criteria.--Redtigerxyz  Talk  09:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Two thoughts. (1) To quote WP:MOS "Alt text takes the place of an image for text-only readers, including those using screen readers. Images should have an alt attribute added to the |alt=  parameter. See WP:ALT for more information." Good Articles need to conform to WP:MOS. This is irrespective of what happens at FAC. (2) If an editor at FAC asks you to add ALT text, and you tell that editor "I don't have to because it got removed from the requirements," he or she may not pass you. Because at FAC, its about consensus, and if they like ALT, you need all, regardless of what the technical requirements are. ɳorɑfʈ Talk! 16:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


### Further suggestions
Nice to see a World Heritage Site article improved towards GA. Please see below few more suggestions for improvement:

The lead could be a bit longer for such a long article. The MOS suggests 3 paragraphs.
There is an inconsistency in the use of units of measurement, with non-metric units placed first in most of the article but metric units placed first in the "Main cave" section. I would suggest using metric first throughout the article (SI and official in India).
The problem is: we did not to do WP:OR. Where references gave the distances in miles, we kept it that way and where in kms, we kept it that way and then used the convert template. Using it the other way may not give the exact distances as given by the ref. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  09:30, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Converting units is a routine calculation, and not OR, however I see the problem of loosing the round numbers.  Elekhh (talk) 09:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
The "Visitor information" section seems to be more in the scope of Wikitravel and could be simply replaced with a link there like:  Elephanta Caves travel guide from Wikivoyage
Wikitravel is not part of the Wikimedia Foundation like Commons. So I think we need to retain this. Correct me if I am wrong. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  09:25, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
True that Wikitravel is not part of the Wikimedia Foundation, but see WP:NOTTRAVEL and WP:OUTLET. --Elekhh (talk) 09:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Removed it. Moved a sentence to Geography. If you think it is WP:UNDUE, plz remove it.--Redtigerxyz  Talk  10:04, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
The section "Cultural influence" is a bit short and unreferenced.
The section was added by an anon. Removed section. Trimurti's cultural influence is given "The Trimurti sculpture, with the Gateway of India in the background, has been adopted as the logo of the Maharashtra Tourism Department (Maharashtra Tourism Development Corporation – MTDC)."--Redtigerxyz  Talk  09:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I think it would be beneficial if the article would be more explicit regarding the reasons for listing the Elephanta Caves as a World Heritage Site, other than the need for conservation.
Added criteria per UNESCO site. Ref in infobox. --Redtigerxyz  Talk  09:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Hope this is of help. Elekhh (talk) 08:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I have made a request on WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests for copy editing help. --Nvvchar (talk) 13:47, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I am working on the copy-editing, but it is slow going. Give me another day or two. Thanks. NielsenGW (talk) 14:49, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. This article needed you (a copyeditor). --Redtigerxyz  Talk  15:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
Alright! I did everything I could. This is quite possibly the single-most detailed description of a cave system I have ever read. Good luck with the review! NielsenGW (talk) 17:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

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