# Talk:Faramir

Blonde, anyway? I think blonde on an adult male looks ABNORMAL! By the way, does PETER JACKSON hate Faramir? Who would dislike Faramir anyhow? He's against war, sweet, and helpful (Well, he was nice to Frodo and Sam!), and I like that on a person.
Okay, I agree that Faramir was abused througout the movie series. But what Peter Jackson really tried to do was to tear him away from Eowyn so she'd like Aragorn (apparently).
In summary:
Eowyn + Aragorn = NO WAY HOZAY!
Eowyn + Faramir = YES!!!
Aragorn + Arwen = YES!!!
Hehhehheh...sorry. Well, and there is some rumor Sam and Faramir are the same age. NO WAY! SAM IS OLDER!
In summary:
Sam: age 39
Faramir: age 36
39 > 36
Hehehehe...I love anyone who is nice like Faramir. Besides, Tolkien probably intentioned for Faramir to be totally different from Boromir. Most of the time when Faramir was very little, his mother Finduilas cared for him, but Denethor hated Faramir (this has a little bit to do with Cinderella, I think, as Cinderella's stepmother hated her so much), and when Finduilas died, Boromir protected Faramir. And without Boromir, Denethor could have made Faramir do work all day and wear old torn-up clothes. 
So you have it. Denethor was cruel to Faramir, and Boromir defended Faramir.
Okay. Well, here's a family tree.
[Sorry to intrude on somebody else's comment and throw off the chronology of this, but this family tree needs to be fixed. Honestly, it screws up the rest of the page. I tried fixing it, and on the preview it looked fine, but it turned out making it worse. Please revert to the original, and fix it. --queso man 18:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)]

 Mardil                Imrazor = Mithrellas 
    :                          :
 Turgon                        :
    |                          :
Ecthelion II                 Aglahad
    |                          |
    |                      Angelimar
    |                          |
    |                      Adrahil II
    |                          |
    |              -----------------------
    |              |           |         |
    |           Ivriniel       |      Imrahil
    |                          |         |
    |             --------------    -----------------------------
    |             |                 |         |         |       |
Denethor II = Finduilas           Elphir  Erichion    Amthoros   |
            |                        |                           |
            |                     Alphros    ---------------------
            |                                |                    
            |                    Éomer = Lothiriel                      
    -------------------              |  
    |                 |              --------
 Boromir          '''Faramir''' = Éowyn          |
                       |             |
                    Elboron        Elfwine
                       |
                    Barahir

... right.  Anyway, was Faramir actually the Steward of Gondor at anytime? The brief interlude between Denethor's death and Imrahil's appointment?  Considering he was unconscious the entire time, I doubt it.  Oberiko 18:54, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It was sort of a technicality. But Faramir was the one who passed over the crown to Aragorn, and he retained the office of Steward afterwards, although it returned to its earlier function (that of advisor to the King, although it was probably mostly an honorary title since Faramir didn't even live in Minas Tirith). --[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 19:00, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
"On the day of the coronation, Faramir surrendered his Stewardship. Aragorn, however, renewed the office..." Formally, it didn't work that way. Aragorn handed the Rod of the Stewards back to Faramir and told him that his office was not ended. Had Aragorn accepted the Rod, he would have become Steward. Instead, he ordered Faramir to do his job as Steward, which was to have the people accept him as King. This is perhaps a subtle point. Wastrel Way (talk) 02:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC) Eric
Amidst a not-very-good 20-year-old thread that would today be deleted per NOTFORUM ... ok, well yes, technically correct, but I doubt one reader in a thousand would detect the difference in meaning from the current text. I suppose we could say that F. "offered to surrender" the stewardship, but since we've said that A. renewed it, we've got the bases covered really. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:15, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
Aragorn entered the city only as a Ranger of the North — not as the heir of Isildur. Thus Faramir technically reigned from the suicide of Denethor to Aragorn’s coronation (not that he had much choice in the matter). {Ⓐℕάℛℹℴɴ} 21:23, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Faramir WAS the Steward of Gondor. As Aranel said, Faramir passed the Crown of Gondor to Aragorn, at this time Faramir says: "The last Steward of Gondor begs leave to surrender his office." (LotR, The Return of the King, The Steward and the King) It is thus clear that the office of Ruling Steward was Faramir's from the moment of Denethor's death. However, as is noted Faramir was incapacitated for much of this time. 'True' authority was exercised by Gandalf and Aragorn, with Prince Imrahil in Faramir's stead: "the Lord of Dol Amroth shall rule the City until Faramir awakes". Upon his awakening, Faramir assumed the role of Steward, primarily for the purpose of preparing for the coronation of Aragorn.
It is interesting that at his coronation Aragorn replies: "That office is not ended, and it shall be thine and thy heirs' as long as my line shall last." Appendix A (Annals of the Kings and Rulers) to the Lord of the Rings listed Denethor II as the "last of the Ruling Stewards, and was followed by his second son Faramir, Lord of Emyn Arnen, Steward to King Elessar, F.A. 82." As the death of Faramir's father and the crowning of King Elessar occurred in the year 3019 (of 3021) of the third age, and Faramir lived to the year 82 of the fourth age he held his stewardship for 84 years (assuming he did not pass it to his heir prior to his death). Therefore, although Faramir was (technically) Steward of Gondor before Aragorn's crowning as King Elessar, he was not considered among the ruling stewards.
As Anárion notes, subsequent to Aragorn's accession, Faramir became an advisor to the crown. However, his role as steward would have been more than ceremonial, still with responsibility for rule of the city/kingdom whilst the King was away (for instance when Aragorn travelled to Arnor to reestablish the northen kingdom). As for Faramir not even living in Minas Tirith, he was given "Ithilien to be his princedom", however he was to dwell within sight of Minas Tirith (in Emyn Arnen). Therefore, like Prince Imrahil, Faramir was given his own sub-territory of Gondor to officially reside in. This does not preclude having a greater than ceremonial participation in the ruling of the kingdom.
In closing, Master Samwise and Faramir ARE the same age. The Tale of Years (Appendix B) has them both born in the year 2983 of the third age.
BDB79 10:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

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Begin discussion moved from user talk:Elphion -- Elphion (talk) 18:08, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
Hey Elphion,
Do you mind pointing me to the long-standing project guideline forbidding fan art in Wikipedia infoboxes? As far as I can see, similar art lives perfectly fine at https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faramir and https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faramir (in the latter case, it is in fact specifically called out as "fan art").
WRT to the image for Finduilas of Dol Amroth, there was only one question about the origin of the drawing when it was initially added (failed to follow the correct image upload procedure), but it has never been challenged for being "fan art".
Upon some investigation, I've found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Guide_to_image_deletion, which says, "Images may be deleted on Wikipedia if they do not conform to our image use policy or if they are no longer needed." At the same time, I've scrutinized https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy and could not find any sign of fan art being forbidden. These images also seem to comply with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Images#Images_for_the_lead, since they are "natural and appropriate representations of the topic". This can be backed by the exact character descriptions by J. R. R. Tolkien.
UPDATE: Guess I'll revert your changes for now. Please feel free to roll them forward with an explanation backed by links to relevant Wikipedia guidelines.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Murzwin (talk • contribs) 19:05, 24 February 2019 (UTC) 
Murzwin (talk) 16:14, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Discussion over time at [1].  The last entry there sums it up best: fan images are not a WP:RS. -- Elphion (talk) 19:05, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the link and sorry for the little delay! I've followed the advice of De728631 and added the "(fan art, drawn after Tolkien's writings)" clarification.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Murzwin (talk • contribs) 19:21, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
These are not notable images and have no reliable source; they have no business in WP articles. -- Elphion (talk) 14:43, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
How does one define the drawings' "notability"? I guess not through a single-handed decision? Do you believe https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Faramir-tj01.JPG/368px-Faramir-tj01.JPG with a heavily distorted skull/face geometry (from the Spanish/French article) is more notable? Also, both of the removed drawings have been previously published on DeviantArt: https://www.deviantart.com/murzwin/art/Faramir-785712653 and https://www.deviantart.com/murzwin/art/Lady-Finduilas-of-Gondor-of-Dol-Amroth-785237390 (the color version of Finduilas – does that one work better?)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Murzwin (talk • contribs) 16:31, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
End moved discussion Elphion (talk) 18:08, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
I do not edit the Spanish or French WPs, so I won't speak to their guidelines for allowing fan art.  As explained above, the English WP discourages fan art because the artists are not recognized authorities on Tolkien's vision, and the generally self-published repositories (like DeviantArt) are about as far as you can get from WP:RS.  WP is an encyclopedia; it was never meant to be an exhibition space for contributed artwork. -- Elphion (talk) 18:08, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

I know The Lord of the Rings rather well, for I have read it many times and it's been my favourite book since 1988. Thus, I know virtually everything J.R.R. Tolkien has written about Faramir. Faramir had grey eyes: "Doubt was in the grey eyes that gazed steadily at Frodo". (The Two Towers, Book 4, Ch. The Window on the West). He had raven hair: "... and their hair, raven and golden..." (The Return of the King, Book 6, Ch. The Steward and the King). He was а young man:  "... to tell this grave young man..."  (The Two Towers, Book 4, Ch. The Window on the West). His appearance was like his father's: "...Faramir the younger was like him in looks" (Appendix A, The Stewards) and, according to Tolkien, Denethor had "carven face with its proud bones" (The Return of the King, Book 5, Ch. Minas Tirith). Faramir was handsome:  "... looking on the fair face of Faramir..." (The Houses of the Healing, Book 5, Ch. The Return of the King). And Faramir was beardless. Tolkien wrote that elves' descendants were beardless and Faramir was a descendant of Imrazor and elf Mithrellas: "... there is a discussion of the Elvish strain in Men, as to its being observable in the beardlessness of those who were so descended (it was a characteristic of all Elves to be beardless), and it is here noted in connection with the princely house of Dol Amroth..." (Unfinished Tales, History of Celeborn and Galadriel). Given all of the above, I tried my best to render Faramir following Tolkien's description as closely as possible. I naturally have no intent of promoting myself through WP; my goal was to exactly create an image of Faramir according to the book, which is unfortunately not the case with most of the art found on the Internet. -- Murzwin (talk) 14:56, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
I'm sure that's all true.  But it doesn't answer my points above. WP:RS is the essence of Wikipedia. A person's opinion, no matter how well-informed, is not by itself a reliable source. -- Elphion (talk) 17:25, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

I've restored the status quo ante as we'd already had a discussion on the matter - there seems no point whatsoever on messing about with the infobox with details with Lord of the Rings. The whole thing is one book. I suggest we just say it's in Lord of the Rings and leave it at that. The fact that the publisher divided it into 3 parts and gave them names isn't terribly relevant to the character. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:22, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

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