# Talk:Liu Jin

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Liu Jin/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: Min968 (talk · contribs) 08:31, 8 April 2025 (UTC)
Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 09:00, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct: 

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation: 

Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline: 

B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose): 

C. It contains no original research: 

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism: 

Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic: 

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style): 

Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each: 

Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute: 

Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content: 

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions: 

Overall:
Pass or Fail: 

Source review

High quality academic sources are cited.
List the cited sources in ABC order. Borsoka (talk) 09:00, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
Could you please quote the texts verifying the following sentences from the cited reliable sources?

After the Zhengde Emperor ascended to the throne, Liu Jin was appointed to oversee the Bells and Drums Office (鐘鼓司; Zhonggusi), a palace agency responsible for ceremonial music and performances.
When Emperor Wuzong 明武宗 (r. 1505-1521) acceded to the throne Liu’s career skyrocketed. He was appointed head of the Bells and Drums Office (zhonggusi 鐘鼓司), then of the firearms "Division of the Five Thousand" (wuqianying 五千營) and later the "integrated division” (tuanying 團營). Theobald (2015)
To provide for the various musical needs of his new empire and to manage the multitude of musicians employed at court, Hongwu, with the help of his scholar-officials and music officers, nominally continued court music traditions by setting up four court music offices: the State Sacrificial Music Office, the Entertainment Music Office (Jiaofang 教坊), the Eunuch Music Office (Zhonggusi 鐘鼓司), and the Palace Women Music Office (Siyue 司樂), all of which operated as hierarchical troupes of officials, musicians, and dancers. Lam (2008), p. 277
Liu Jin's ultimate goal was for the profits from salt sales to become the second largest source of state revenue, following the land tax.
For instance, in 1508, after learning that there was a surplus of salt totaling 1.6 million yin in the Lianghuai region, Liu Jin ordered to have it sold to the merchants ofhis choice, with the money to be remitted to the Inner Court within three days. Liu Jin, in particular, realized that salt was the second most important source of state income, after the land taxes; therefore, he took emphatic measures to arrest salt smugglers when he was running the Ming secret police apparatuses. Tsai (1996), p. 176
Historians have varying accounts of the size of Liu Jin's treasure. For example, Goodrich reports that it consisted of 300,000 liang of gold, 50 million liang of silver, and 25 bushels of precious stones.
By the time of his arrest investigators found in his house, among other valuable things, three hundred thousands ounces of gold (one version says 2,500,000), over fifty million ounces of silver, anf twenty bushels of of precious stones. Goodrich & Fang (1976), p. 944
Borsoka (talk) 12:23, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

@Borsoka: Done. Min968 (talk) 19:06, 30 July 2025 (UTC)
Image

Could you add at least one image or a map? Borsoka (talk) 09:00, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
Done. Min968 (talk) 04:25, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
File:Portrait de l'empereur Ming Wuzong.jpg: a US PD tag is needed at Commons. Borsoka (talk) 08:40, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
Done.
Comments

Link "Chinese eunuch" and "eunuch" to Eunuchs in China in the lead and in the main text's first sentence, respectively.
Done.
Do we know who was his adoptive father?
Done.
I would delete the reference to Chenghua Emperor, because he is not mentioned any more in the text. The present texts suggests that Liu Jin's adoptive father only served Chenghua Emperor but Liu Jin was appointed to office under Chenghua Emperor's son.
Done.
...the "Eight Tigers"... Some explanation? ("the group known as/...")
Done.
...over civil officials Were not the eunuchs civil officials?
Done.
...over government officials Were not the eunuchs government officials? :) Borsoka (talk) 11:08, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
After the Zhengde Emperor ascended to the throne, he was significantly promoted. Delete.
Done.
He took over the leadership of... Who? When?
Done.
...the Bells and Drums Office ... the "Division of Five Thousand" ...  the "integrated division"... Some explanation? I would rather list his portfolio than listing names of offices unknown for most of our readers.
Done.
He convinced the emperor that the lack of state revenue... We are not informed in previous sentences that there was a "lack of state revenues". The phrase "lack of state revenues" is unclear for me.
I think an introductury sentence about the decline of state revenues is needed (ideally with numbers).
Early in 1506, the eunuch Liu Chin (ca. 1452-1510) began to suggest a number of ways to raise revenues, and the emperor gave him free rein to implement them. Liu Chin held that the decline in revenues resulted from the gross mismanagement and corruption of civil officials. He suggested a general investigation of officials who had been responsible for fiscal matters, with punitive fines to be assessed on those found to have been derelict in their duties. Geiss (1988), p. 405. @Borsoka: Regarding this part, I also do not have the necessary materials to write the sentence. Min968 (talk) 05:02, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
...were also added... Added?
Done.
At the head of the government (or as head of the Directorate of Ceremonial, the most influential eunuch office)... Choose between the two.
Done.
Liu Jin focus was on increasing the emperor's income ... For example, his agents ... also engaged in the illegal sale of salt... I do not understand. How could their engagement in illegal sale of salt increase imperial income? Furthermore, I assume salt trade was a state monopoly, but it is unclear from the text.
Done.
..., as they were also forced to provide supplies to the north I would delete the test.
Done.
Liu Jin's rule was characterized by brutal terror, as he used force... The use of force is not a sign of brutal terror. For instance, police uses force in the most democratic countries as well.
...but also struggled with the aversion of the other seven "Tigers", who were also powerful figures... Rephrase to avoid the repetition of "also".
The increase in state revenue through higher taxation of military households caused widespread discontent in the borderlands,... We are not informed previously that military households became subject to taxation.
Done.
In Shaanxi province, the dissatisfaction of soldiers and officers led to the rebellion of the Prince of Anhua. Delete (the next section introduces the rebellion).
Done.
The emperor continued to indulge in the new "Leopard Quarter", surrounded by eunuchs, officers, musicians, lamas, and beautiful girls. I would delete the sentence.
Done.
However, the rebellion was quickly suppressed by local troops within eighteen days. In response, the emperor sent one of the "Eight Tigers", Zhang Yong, to lead the army against the rebels. Contradiction.
Done.
It was reported that.. By whom to whom?
Done.
The coup was planned... Whose coup? Is this a fact or an accusation?
Done.
...he eventually allowed himself to be convinced Rephrase.
Done.
...his three-day execution... Some details? A three-day execution is quite unusual.
Done.
...the authority of the center... Rephrase.
Done.
Liu also aimed to prevent officials from serving their personal interests.. He accumulated a huge wealth.
From October, 1506, to September, 1510, the eunuch-official alliance of Liu Chin dominated the court. Not being content with the vast Imperial revenues, Liu Chin demanded the services of the Six Ministries, which meant he received a cut from all government revenues. To improve the moral fiber and improve the administration, he put a stop to the growing self-enrichment of eunuchs and officials. The reforms, in fact, preceded, and may be campared favorably with, those launched under the leadership of Chang Chu-cheng about seventy years later. Unfornately it was a eunuch who initiated them and this fact naturally disturbed the majority of tradition minded govetnment officials. The conduct of Liu and his allies and, indeed, of their policies moreover, were subject to criticsm. Goodrich & Fang (1976), pp.308-309
I would still rephrase because he accumulated huge wealth, so he seems to have served his own personal interests as well. Borsoka (talk) 11:08, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
...anticipating similar efforts by Zhang Juzheng When?
Done.
However, the fact that the reforms were initiated by eunuchs was enough for them to be rejected by the conservative part of the bureaucracy. Not a convincing explanation. He increased taxes, accumulated quite large personal wealth, etc. These acts could make him extremely unpopular.
From October, 1506, to September, 1510, the eunuch-official alliance of Liu Chin dominated the court. Not being content with the vast Imperial revenues, Liu Chin demanded the services of the Six Ministries, which meant he received a cut from all government revenues. To improve the moral fiber and improve the administration, he put a stop to the growing self-enrichment of eunuchs and officials. The reforms, in fact, preceded, and may be campared favorably with, those launched under the leadership of Chang Chu-cheng about seventy years later. Unfornately it was a eunuch who initiated them and this fact naturally disturbed the majority of tradition minded govetnment officials. The conduct of Liu and his allies and, indeed, of their policies moreover, were subject to criticsm. Goodrich & Fang (1976), pp.308-309
Borsoka (talk) 04:14, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

@Borsoka I will try to resolve the above issues next week. Min968 (talk) 10:49, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
No problem. Ping me when ready. Borsoka (talk) 11:00, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
@Borsoka Most of the points above are done. Min968 (talk) 12:23, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
(Lead) ...who had served the Zhengde Emperor since his childhood I think this is a reference to a period when Zhengde was not emperor yet.
(Lead) ...at the expense of officials... Were not the eunuchs officials?
(Lead) ...among the eunuchs... I would delete this, or rephrase the sentence. Borsoka (talk) 11:08, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
@Borsoka Done. Min968 (talk) 16:18, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
Happily pass this thoroughly researched article. Thank you for your work. Borsoka (talk) 09:22, 4 August 2025 (UTC)