# Talk:Kenya Airways

The image depicting the KQ Boeing 767 in the new livery is from airliners.net 
Was the image owners permission sought? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kiplagat (talk • contribs) 12:54, 18 September 2005.

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello everybody! I'm currently improving (at least trying) the Kenya Airways article which, before I started editing it, seemed to me somewhat disordered, including out-of-place and unreferenced information, as well as irrelevant sections (some of which I already removed). I'm trying to do my best at improving this article (I'm sure I'm not the only one), but this is a hard task and I need some collaboration regarding references. So, if you have any interesting reference please let me know and I'll include its contents into the article. Despite I'm particularly interested in people closely linked to the matter (say, for instance, Kenyan people), everybody's collaboration will be welcome. Thanks for your cooperation.
Regards
--Jetstreamer (talk) 12:45, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Jetstreamer, thank you for your efforts at improving this Kenya Airways article.
Here is some updated information with regards to their 787s. Hopefully they will order GEnx engines for these 787s.
http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/kenya-settles-boeing-787-delivery-delay-0414?cid=nl_atw_dn&YM_RID=#email
14 April 2011
Kenya Airways said it reached a settlement with Boeing on a new delivery schedule for nine Boeing 787-8s.
It had re-affirmed it's intention to exercise the options on four additional 787s “after the initial nine aircraft have been delivered.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.92.115.223 (talk) 00:43, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


### References
Hello. This article has too many references. First it makes no sense to place the same <ref> behind almost every single sentence; for example references 4, 13, 18, 19. Second we don't need a ref for every single seat configuration, a one-time ref to the fleet page, 36 in that case, is enough. 37-42 are not needed. Third and worst: The references for the accidents must be a joke. Since there is a final, official report, it is the only source we need, because it contains all known facts. And since both accidents have their own, well referenced, articles anyway, a single ref should do the job more then pretty. Best regards, --R.Schuster (talk) 17:05, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your contributions to the article. I have reverted your edits concerning the removal of many references according to your point of view. If your take the time to check each reference you deleted, as I actually did, you'll notice that the references provided complement with each other, as none of them state the same thing. Regards.--Jetstreamer (talk) 17:53, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi, that's exactly why I've removed them. We only need the final, official source, not (earlier) speculations from different newspapers. And, most important, the accidents have separate articles. What is your opinion about the other over-referencing?
The idea of references is to verify challenged or likely to be challenged statements, see WP:Verifiability, not every single word or sentence. Brgds, --R.Schuster (talk) 13:23, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
BTW, these over-referencing was not in place before you start contributing to this article, so you are the one who have to seek for consensus before editing “substantial portions of any article”. --R.Schuster (talk) 13:32, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


#### Proposal for solution
This is my proposal to handle the references. The numbers of the references are based on this version of the article.

The multiple citations of the same reference should be reduced to one within the same (sub-)section.
Unlikely challenged statements like “founded in 1977, after the dissolution of East African Airways” or “full member of SkyTeam” do not need multiple references, the official company-history should be enough.
There is no need to cite every single seat-configuration ([37] - [44]), ref [36], which links to the Fleet Information page and serves as the source for number of aircraft, is sufficient for all.
The same applies for the retired fleet, a single source mentioned in the head-line is enough, up to 3 refs for every single plane is simply ridiculous (refs [49] - [51]).
Orders: The only valid source for Boeing-orders is Boeing and KQ, and only firm orders are counted. Agreements or Options are not notable.
As for the fleet age: airfleets.net as the reliable source, as they calculate based on delivery dates. Planespotters.net is just a blog and not reliable.
Accidents: Substitute all refs by a single one, preferable with Template {{ASN}}, which is destined for incidents and accidents in Aviation, as ASN provides facts based on the final, official report. We do not need several copies of the same press release from different news sources, nor do we need out-dated speculations and information. Further both accidents have their main articles, so we only provide an introduction here, which does not need to be referenced at all.
Best regards, --R.Schuster (talk) 14:10, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's what I call consensus. You are right in many aspects you stated. I will try to fix the problem, and in doing so will discuss with you the best way to improve the article. My first action will be the migration of all the references concerned with both accidents into the proper accident articles. Really appreciate your comments. Please stay in touch, love this kind of cooperation. Best wishes.--Jetstreamer (talk) 15:50, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 Half done References for KQ431 already removed from the article.--Jetstreamer (talk) 20:15, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 Done--Jetstreamer (talk) 12:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the article with the Citation guidelines. It is stated there that “A good rule of thumb is that one footnote after a sentence is almost always sufficient, two or three may be a good way of preventing linkrot for online sources or providing a range of sources that support the fact, and more than three should be avoided as clutter.” Unsurprisingly, it is also stated there that that is not a Wikipedia policy. The cleanup tag is hence unnecessary at this point of the discussion. On the contrary, the article was tagged as ‘Under construction’, i.e., it is not in its final version, on the basis of the concerns we already discussed upon. Regards.--Jetstreamer (talk) 22:10, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Tag removed.--Jetstreamer (talk) 12:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I have reinserted the cleanup tag, as there is still a WP:Citation overkill. If you dare to remove the tag again without solving the problem it will be considered as vandalism. --R.Schuster (talk) 11:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I kindly raised the matter to administrator levels, as you show no will in solving the conflict by relying upon inexistent policies. Meanwhile, the tag has been removed.--Jetstreamer (talk) 18:45, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Placed the above template following an administrator advice. The dispute is now going for a third-party opinion.--Jetstreamer (talk) 19:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

I firstly removed the {{3O}} tag, as no further request is needed.    ~ AdvertAdam  talk 11:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
I agree with Bobrayner. I honestly don't like the tone that the short argument went through, but I highly recommend cleaning-up the article (without tagging it). I've seen multiple references on a simple statements, where there's no conflicts between them. Just pick whatever reliable source there is, and remove what's unneeded. Any comments, disagreements, and opinions are welcome :). Happy editing everyine.    ~ AdvertAdam  talk 11:50, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

R.Schuster has removed (again) references over citation overkill concerns throughout the article. That task was done in a matter of some 20 minutes. The first thing I wonder is whether he/she had the time to read all the references he/she removed? I don't think so. Apart from that, WP:CITEKILL clearly states that "...two or three (references) may be a good way of preventing linkrot for online sources or providing a range of sources that support the fact, and more than three should be avoided as clutter." All sentences and/or paragraphs have at most that number of sources, and are hence in compliance with the guidelines. I see therefore no reason for removing any reference from the article (unless, of course, that reference is wrong or does not support the companion material anymore), and the only reason I guess he/she did so is that the aesthetics of the page is not of his/her liking. I intend (who doesn't?) to take this article to GA status (as I actually did almost on my own with Ethiopian Airlines, and helped Sp33dyphil with Vietnam Airlines). I'm perfectly aware of the criteria most of the reviewers have in evaluating articles. That said, seeing that onlyR.Schuster and me have been editing/expanding the article in the recent past, should he/she/we need to discuss the removal of any reference, we can do it anytime we want. I believe that nominating the article for a GA position will solve the dispute we're engaged into. Let the reviewers decide whether the article meets that criteria or not. If it does, the article is promoted. If it does not, both should follow the suggestion of the reviewers to get it promoted. It is a happy ending for the article in either way.--Jetstreamer (talk) 14:18, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kenya Airways/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Vibhijain (talk · contribs) 17:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

All issues have been addressed. I hope the article is now of your liking. Kind regards.--Jetstreamer (talk) 11:34, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

"Kenya Airways acquires a new Embraer to growing fleet KQ proud owner of the 900th E-Jet Manufactured by Embraer" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 11 October 2012. Archived from the original on 13 October 2012. {{cite press release}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
"Kenya Airways takes delivery of first fully-owned Embraer E190 jet" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 1 September 2012. Archived from the original on 10 September 2012. {{cite press release}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
Buyck, Cathy (1 September 2011). "Kenya Airways finalizes order for 10 E-190s". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 2 June 2012. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
"Kenya Airways Launch Freighter Service" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 21 February 2012. Archived from the original on 27 August 2012. {{cite press release}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
"Kenya Airways received second fully owned Embraer" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 17 September 2012. Archived from the original on 24 September 2012. {{cite press release}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
"Kenya Airways to Convert Its Boeing 737-300 Passenger Jets into Freighters" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 26 October 2012. Archived from the original on 3 November 2012. Retrieved 3 November 2012. {{cite press release}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
"Kenya Airways to acquire freighter". Daily Nation. 27 February 2011. Archived from the original on 18 May 2012. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
"Kenya Airways and Afreximbank sign fleet financing agreement covering 20 aircraft". Centre for Aviation. 27 June 2012. Archived from the original on 27 June 2012.
Buyck, Cathy (24 June 2011). "Kenya Airways confirms Boeing compensation for 787 delay". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 18 May 2012.
Okoth, Jackson (24 June 2014). "Kenya Airways names Mbuvi Ngunze as new CEO". Standard Digital. Archived from the original on 26 June 2014.
"Kenya Airways sets tentative final dates for B777 operations". ch-aviation GmbH. 1 May 2015. Archived 2 May 2015 at the Wayback Machine
Ateka, Samson (26 March 2015). "Kenya: KQ Finale is Here". The Star. AllAfrica.com. Archived 11 April 2015 at the Wayback Machine
Moores, Victoria (4 March 2014). "Kenya Airways to take six 787s, one 777 in 2014". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 5 March 2014.
Moores, Victoria (11 September 2014). "Kenya Airways adds 787 routes". Air Transport World. Archived 12 September 2014 at the Wayback Machine
Dron, Alan (27 June 2014). "Kenya Airways narrows losses in a difficult financial year". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 27 June 2014.
"KQ 2013 - 14 Full Year Investors Brief" (PDF). Kenya Airways. Archived from the original (PDF) on 25 June 2014.
Miriri, Duncan (25 June 2014). "UPDATE 2-Kenya Airways looks to transit business to offset drop in tourist traffic". Reuters Africa. Archived from the original on 25 June 2014.
"Airline News". Air Transport World. 7 August 2014. Kenya Airways has taken delivery of a third Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft. Archived 8 August 2014 at the Wayback Machine
"Kenya Airways Receives Second Dreamliner". Centre for Aviation. 25 June 2014. Archived from the original on 26 June 2014.
"Aircraft News". Air Transport World. 27 June 2014. Archived from the original on 28 June 2014. Kenya Airways has taken delivery of its second Boeing 787 as it steps up efforts to expand and modernize its fleet.
Dunn, Graham (25 July 2011). "Why Kenya Airways is a poster child for liberalising African skies". Flightglobal.com. Airline Business. Archived from the original on 18 May 2012.
Paylor, Anne (11 September 2012). "Kenya Airways completes first phase of cutbacks". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 15 September 2012.
Perry, Dominic (6 August 2012). "Kenya Airways plans widespread staff cuts". London: Flightglobal.com. Archived from the original on 10 August 2012. Retrieved 10 August 2012.
Paylor, Anne (9 August 2012). "Kenya Airways to lay off staff". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 10 August 2012. Retrieved 10 August 2012.
"Kenya Airways to fly Dreamliner to Paris". KBC. 7 May 2014. Archived from the original on 16 May 2014.
"Kenya Airways Receives First Aircraft Arranged By Afreximbank" (Press release). 2 April 2014. Archived from the original on 2 April 2014.
"Kenya Airways set to receive brand new Boeing 777-300ER aircraft in October" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 9 September 2013. Archived from the original on 13 September 2013.
"Happy Birthday KQ: 36th Anniversary of Kenya Airways" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 25 January 2013. Archived from the original on 16 February 2013.
"Boeing Delivers Kenya Airways' First 777-300ER". The Wall Street Journal. 25 October 2013. Archived from the original on 26 October 2013.
Paylor, Anne (12 September 2013). "Kenya Airways to inaugurate new 777-300ER on southern China route". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 13 September 2013.
Walker, Karen (3 April 2012). "Kenya signs up for GE engines on 787s". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 18 May 2012.
"Ethiopian and Kenya Airways' financial fortunes diverge in pursuit of East African domination". Centre for Aviation. 23 August 2013. Archived from the original on 23 August 2013.
"Kenya Airways boosts China services, with new Etihad codeshare, but has political and economic risks". Centre for Aviation. 29 March 2013. Archived from the original on 23 August 2013.
"Kenya Airways reports a shock USD92 million loss for FY2013, but grows its Asian markets". Centre for Aviation. 26 June 2013. Archived from the original on 16 August 2013.
"Kenya Airways Lauch Freighter Service" (Press release). Kenya Airways. 21 February 2012. Archived from the original on 27 August 2012.
Hofmann, Kurt (12 January 2018). "Kenya Airways to launch first US services in October 2018". Air Transport World. Archived from the original on 12 January 2018.
"SkyTeam Facts and Figures" (PDF). SkyTeam. November 2017. Archived from the original (PDF) on 3 November 2017.
--Jetstreamer Talk 13:24, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

This [1] edit and the related previous ones [2] have been reverted on the basis of WP:VNT and the preferred use of official sources for fleet tables, as previously established in WP:AIRLINE discussions. Please discuss here or start a new thread at WT:AIRLINE if there's any disagreement. Boeing 777s are still in the fleet according to the official website.--Jetstreamer Talk 14:07, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

All of Ethiopian airlines' fatal crashes combined gives us 337 fatalities (flight 961 was hijacked, flight 904 was caused by pilot error, and flight 604 was caused by a bird strike). However, according to the ASN, all of Kenya Airway's fatal crashes (there were only two, respectively) combined gave a total of 283 fatalities, which is 54 less than EA! Unlike EA though, both of KQ crashes were both causes by pilot error. I don't know whether or not the cause of a crash contributes to the record's ranking, though I'm pretty sure it does, but then again KA had less fatalities than EA. So, does Kenya Airways also have a good (and possibly even better) safety record? Tigerdude9 (talk) 21:34, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Not really relevant as we dont compare safety records. MilborneOne (talk) 22:06, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

I have tagged the "history" section for reorganization due to its lengthy chronology. The existing GAR request tag is appropriate as this is a possible WP:MoS layout issue (GA criterion 1b). I'm not nominating it for GA delisting just yet; someone with topic-level expertise should come edit this section so we can get rid of the GAR request tag! --Nemoschool (talk) 17:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

I've added some sub-sections to the ″History″ section. What do you think?--Jetstreamer Talk 21:53, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
Sub-sections organise the content much nicer. Aeonx (talk) 21:00, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
I would also like to see some more recent content in the article. The 'Future Plans' section talks about the 10-year Mawingu plan made in 2011-12, that was scrapped in 2015 after it was found to be failing. There are news reports from 2 weeks ago that Kenya Airways was close to collapse. It is difficult to assess content-wise because in fact some of the recent events is almost too recent to include. The currency of some the article should be looked at to maintain GA status. Aeonx (talk) 21:00, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Hi all. This is currently the oldest GAR request. The Project Mawingu was covered in the history section as well as future plans so I combined them. I think future plans is not necessary (especially as plans don't always work) so incorporated that whole section in. Does this resolve the GAR request? AIRcorn (talk) 09:08, 25 November 2019 (UTC)