# Talk:Gondor

I actually think it's Osgiliath.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:51, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
How big is Gondor though?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.83.102.139 (talk) 01:34, 2 July 2022 (UTC) 
Osgiliath was abandoned as a city some 600 years before the events of Lord of the Rings. There was an outpost of guards there by then, that is all GimliDotNet (talk) 19:27, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

There are two possible kinds of etymology in a work of fiction: in-fiction and out-of-fiction/real-world. A real-world etymology as used by Tolkien is, for instance, the use of "The Shire", where "shire" is a known word of historic and current meaning in British English. An in-fiction etymology is a wholly constructed thing, in which Tolkien imagined the words and languages involved, and invented the history and transformations of the words, as with "Gondor". This type of etymology belongs in the "Literature" section as it is just as much part of the fiction as the geography and history of that fictional country. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:31, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
Agreed. Take Quenya for instance. The etymology of that proto-language is entirely fictional, and different from say, the Nordic roots of the Dwarven names in The Hobbit. GimliDotNet (talk)|

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Aragorn as Thorongil
I'm confused by the last sentence in the section "Third Age, under the Stewards", which reads:
"In the War of the Ring, the forces of Gondor, led by Aragorn under the alias Thorongil, attacked Umbar and destroyed the Corsair fleet, allowing Denethor II to devote his attention to Mordor."
What/when is the War of the Ring? Based upon the subsequent section (titled "War of the Ring and restoration") I'm led to believe that this refers to the major events of TA 3018-19. However, Aragorn's activities under the name Thorongil, where he served both Thengel and Ecthelion II, occurred between the years TA 2957-80, well before the War of the Ring. (Appendix B - The Third Age)

I see two ways of looking at this.
A) The events in question are, in fact, done by Aragorn as Thorongil. If so, they didn't occur during the War of the Ring, and he didn't aid Denothor II.
Alternatively, we have:
B) The events in question are, in fact, during the War of the Wing. In this case "Thorongil" is an error. But in any case Aragorn didn't destroy the Corsair fleet at Umbar, but rather capture the fleet at Pelargir. Also, the movement of the captured fleet up the Anduin was likely a factor in Denethor's suicide the next day, rather than an aid to his prosecution of the war.

I think that option A) is more likely. If so, and if I understand arightly, the sentence in question has two errors:
1) The activity did not take place during the War of the Ring.
2) Aragorn, as Thorongil, aided Ecthelion II, not Denethor II.

I'd be grateful if someone more expert than I could check this. If I'm right I'd ask for someone to fix the sentence, or permit me to do so.
My proposed replacement text would be:
"Late in the Third Age, the forces of Gondor, led by Aragorn under the alias Thorongil, attacked Umbar and destroyed the Corsair fleet, allowing Ecthelion II to devote his attention to Mordor." Dferstat (talk) 06:48, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

Do that. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:50, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Correction posted. I'd be grateful if you'd review the changes, and confirm that I've got the ref. right.
Oh, and thanks for the ok, also!:) Dferstat (talk) 13:48, 6 May 2025 (UTC)