# Talk:Bona Malwal

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bona Malwal/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Czarking0 (talk · contribs) 04:43, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your time. I am not sure how familiar are you with GA review but for quick fail there are specific categories which I do not think your comment indicates which one you upheld. Once an article jumps the hoop of “quick fail”, then you need to provide detailed assessment and give me chance to response or fix the article.
The whole process aims to improve articles that are close to GA through collaboration between the nominator and the reviewer. By failing the article without this process, you might have robbed both of us from learning from each other.
I have read your comments and below is why I contest some of them
“no detail about the goals, difficulties, or successes of his endeavors.” This not for me to do. I cannot make a statement like that if not included in the sources. Check WP:OR. also consider the availability of sources when recommending such a substantial improvement
“Malwal and Abel Alier continued to broadcast the news from Juba instead from Omdurman" this is not grammatically correct”, how? What is the grammatical problem here? Please explain. I might not be a native speaker but I think I know my way around forming a coherent sentence.you should also suggest solutions not only problems, see Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles#Mistakes to avoid in reviews
"Malwal authored many books including "Sudan and South Sudan: From One to Two" in 2015, which considered as his political memoir" This is not grammatically correct. I assume it should be "is considered" but that raises the question by whom? See MOS:ALLEGED” .. again what is the grammatical problem?
And the policy you cited does not fit here, there are no allegations here. You may be refereing to WP:WEASEL which might apply if the topic is contentious
It failed being stable because “This is biography of the living person but he is very old. I expect he will die soon and then this will need to be updated.” that does not follow any policy! Actually it is against policy. It is called crystal balling
fails image because “No images. I expect it may be difficult to find appropriate ones but I'd like the editors to indicate that they tried”. That is not a reason to fail. Please cite policies especially if you are going to fail something/
"Also if you say that a person became something during a period of years it implies there is uncertainty about when they took on the role." no it does not. Saying that some worked between x and y is saying just that. That is a difference in style and is not a cause to fail articles. see Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions
""he resigned in protest against the shift to Sharia law" This sentence is uncited." actually is cited!
FuzzyMagma (talk) 07:58, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
@Czarking0 you need to engage with these comments even if you do not agree with them. It is part of the process FuzzyMagma (talk) 11:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
@FuzzyMagma Hi, I think this is an important and under appreciated topic that deserves more attention. Thank you for your authorship and your attention to my GA review. Given your response I think it would be best if other editors assume my responsibility in this review. You seem to have a good understanding of the GA process. I still believe you should follow my suggestions, but in any case you may open a new GA review and I will refrain from reviewing this article further including failing it. Czarking0 (talk) 21:21, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
@Czarking0 Thanks and actually we don not need another reviewer unless we reached a point when we are citing conflicting policies. Then you can request a third opinion using the GA tool or go to WP:3O (as I just did).
Look, I requested the review and thank you for doing it. Take a look to Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles#Mistakes to avoid in reviews and if you still think that this article need extensive work, then let's call it a day and I will try to fix the article and re-nominate it.
I fixed most of what I understood, however, as it stands, I really do not get what do I need to fix as some of your suggestions contradict policies, provide problems with no solutions, and sometimes very vague (all listed above).
I hope you can help me. FuzzyMagma (talk) 11:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Regarding the third opinion request, I think the proper forum is the GA talk page, but if they tell you a 3O is appropriate, I am happy to provide one. voorts (talk/contributions) 16:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
I came to look at this from the link at WT:GAN, and I have not thoroughly reviewed the article but I do have a couple of comments:
Czarking0 is correct about the two grammatical errors they pointed out that you questioned; they are fairly minor issues but they are clearly there. I see various other issues in the article of a similar kind (e.g. He again became member the national assembly between 1974 and 1978 should read ... became a member of the national assembly ...).
I also agree with Czarking0 about the strange use of the word "became" in this article. "became a member of the national assembly between 1974 and 1978" means that he started being a member at some point between those dates; I'm pretty sure the article intends to say that he "was a member of the national assembly from 1974 to 1978".
I do not think that Czarking0 is applying the stability criterion correctly; this is about edit warring, not about whether the article will need to be updated in the future.
About images: I do not think we can or should penalise an article for not including images unless the reviewer can point to existing images which are PD or freely-licensed and would improve the article.
I would not have immediately failed the article and I do not agree with Czarking0's comments on images or article stability, but their other criticisms do seem to be valid. For a full review there is technically no requirement to give the nominator the opportunity to fix issues, but unless it's quick fail-able the reviewer should assess all of the criteria in the review – including sourcing and neutrality, which they have not yet done. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 15:11, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
@Caeciliusinhorto thank you for the third opinion. You are the third reviewer to claim stability is only about edit wars. I acknowledge that I was applying that criteria too broadly. I think you also make a fair point about the images. If I had not quick failed this I would have spent more time on that. @FuzzyMagma I looked through a bunch of your GA articles and you are clearly a serious editor. I hope you feel like I am doing my best. I still think this deserves quick fail (or at least did at the time I made that decision) for the writing and coverage issues I pointed out. If you wish to take those on, then I would hope you open a new GA review and if you wish I will review and potentially pass it at the time. At the very least, I will not quick fail it without your agreement. If on the other hand, you feel like this article is best served by the attention of editors other than myself, I will not be offended. Czarking0 (talk) 01:07, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
@Czarking0 no worries, hope the discussion was useful for you, as it was for me. I will re-nominate the article then. TC FuzzyMagma (talk) 09:50, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bona Malwal/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Czarking0 (talk ·  contribs) 05:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

thanks for re-reviewing the article, I will try to amend for your comment as you post them. FuzzyMagma (talk) 19:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
one thing to bare in mind, Sudan is not the US when it comes to coverage. Even now, it is really hard to get any information, if does not relate to war or massacre. The sources listed in the article, is almost any and every article that mentioned Malwal, ever. I have even read Malwal autobiography but there he still focused on his opinion of the events, and not what was going on the ground.
There is also some trivia that I excluded, like the time Malawal saved Ibrahim El-Salahi from execution after the 1975 Sudanese coup attempt, which I could not include to keep the article focus FuzzyMagma (talk) 20:22, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for calling that out I will certainly keep that in mind. I think if this captures all the available material it can certainly be considered good Czarking0 (talk) 01:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for your understanding. Please see my reply below in green and I took the liberty to delete what I though I have solved (feel free to double check)
I think I have covered most of your comments and waiting for you to conduct further reviews and indicate where your concerns was resolved and where you think I need to do better. Thanks to your comment the article size has increased by 20%
again, thanks for taking the time to re-do this FuzzyMagma (talk) 09:37, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
I moved the review forward a bit. I wonder if there are more sources on his government duties in arabic texts or another language but I do not speak any that will be of use here. Czarking0 (talk) 21:15, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
I added more details from Arabic sources, although one of them mentioned a different year of birth!. I also included a section about Jieng Council of Elders FuzzyMagma (talk) 21:22, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Made a comment on one of the sources not being reliable. I am slowly getting through all the new changes Czarking0 (talk) 03:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
responded and take your time, generally there is no deadline on Wikipedia .. FuzzyMagma (talk) 09:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
I responded to that. I also wanted to point you toward this source which is in polish so it probably is not too helpful for us but it does cite some English sources. Part of the value of this review I think is some source material discovery. I think the Sudan project could benefit from some tips on sourcing.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335728266_Jieng_Council_of_Elders_a_parallel_government_in_South_Sudan Czarking0 (talk) 01:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
have a look when you have tie and thanks for these insights. FuzzyMagma (talk) 19:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@FuzzyMagma here is an update on the ICC case: 
https://www.icc-cpi.int/darfur/albashir Czarking0 (talk) 01:48, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

thanks, I will include it and the article initially mentions the first indictment FuzzyMagma (talk) 09:38, 17 March 2024 (UTC)


### Rice
"Another major development scheme affected by the war is the
World Bank-funded rice project in the Malwal Dinka area of
Aweil. Located in the transitional grazing areas, the project was
initially opposed by the Dinka and only after much demonstration
of its utility was it accepted. Rice was used to prepare traditional
foods and brew local beer, usually produced from sorgham.
Covering an area of one million acres, the project was intended to
make the Sudan self-sufficient in rice.45 Although the project is
still productive, its capacity has been considerably reduced by
the effects of the war. With the frequent interruption of railroad
transportation to the North, marketing has also been adversely
affected. Nevertheless, the project demonstrated that the Dinka
are receptive to development."
I found this and I was wondering if you think it is worth adding anything. Bona Malwal gave this information to reporter Czarking0 (talk) 02:00, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I have Included it this information. I also added more context to why Malwal was moved to this ministry after a dispute with the national government. FuzzyMagma (talk) 10:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
I will add the other information and dig deep to include more details. Thanks for the sources and kinda gave me an idea about what level of details you are looking for FuzzyMagma (talk) 10:14, 17 March 2024 (UTC)


### Famine
"The southern famine migrants did not become a political scandal in the way that the 1984 drought migrants had been, to the extent that when a train full of starving famine migrants arrived at Khartoum railways station in April 1988, and six children died at the station itself, the only paper to report on the incident was the Sudan Times, edited by the veteran southern politician Bona Malwal."


### Song Translation
"But notable in this volume are the original poems and songs, poems by Eva Gillies and Ruth Padel, dedicated to Godfrey, and three Dinka songs translated by Bona Malwal, in his memory. In these songs Godfrey appears as Thienydeng, his Dinka ox-name, meaning shaft of lightning, that is, rain, or the black bull with a white stripe, the symbol of a senior elder. One song praises Thienydeng for having presented Dinka ways of life and beliefs so well to the world."