# Talk:Allegra Byron

I don't even know where to start here!  This article is huge for an individual who died when she was only 5 years old!
Four-year-old Allegra wrote her father a letter in Italian from the convent, dated September 21, 1821, asking him to visit her: "My dear Pappa. It being fair-time, I should like so much a visit from my Papa as I have many wishes to satisfy. Won't you come to please your Allegra who loves you so?" (Eisler 1999: 701)
FOUR YEAR OLD??  My mother babysits a girl who is four years old.  She can barely write sentences, let alone comprehend words such as "satisfy".  I find this information hard to believe, don't you?? Stubbleboy 00:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
That text is cited in two or three biographies of Byron and Allegra that I've seen. The letter still exists and a photo of it is included in the pages of the Eisler biography. I think it's fair to assume she had considerable help from the nuns at the convent to write that letter. She probably dictated to them what she wanted to say and they wrote it out for her to copy. Also keep in mind that children were taught to read and write at an earlier age in the seventeenth and eighteenth and nineteenth centuries than they are today. And we can assume that Byron's daughter might have been fairly precocious when it comes to writing. Allegra is notable mainly because of who her parents were and their story is pretty notable. --Bookworm857158367 00:25, 4 October 2006 (UTC) 

Allegra was 4 years 8 months at the time of the letter. It was in Italian, so we can't really judge from a translation how advanced the language was. Byron described her as remarkably intelligent. There doesn't seem to be any justification for adding that the nuns probably helped her a great deal. This is plausible, but it's just guesswork. Snugglepuss (talk) 11:58, 5 April 2025 (UTC)

I'm not saying that this is a bad article.  It needs some work.  The original author asked for my help, and I don't know even where to begin.  I mean it's a very sad story, and I like the article, but how do I place the article in sections when the subject at hand was only alive for 5 years?? Stubbleboy 00:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I broke it up into sections and merged some of the paragraphs as well as added a qualifier to the 4-year-old's letter. See if that works better for you. True, this child was only five but she has some significance as a romantic "symbol" relating to Byron -- one of Byron's two lost daughters. Other articles about her tend to gloss over the facts of how this kid actually spent her life and how unfair Byron was to her mother. The most recent biography of Byron laid out some of what actually happened.--Bookworm857158367 00:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

You did it!  I knew you could, now doesnt it look ten times better?  Great job!  The references still need work, I'll help you with them.  Stubbleboy 01:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I deleted the External Links category.  No need to link pictures on a page that already has a great one...er well now it does.  This portrait is public domain, painting from 1817-1822. Stubbleboy 00:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Appears to meet or exceed Good article criteria. Thanks for writing this sweet story. I made some tiny copyedits that may or may not have helped -- please feel free to revert any or all of them. Best wishes. -Susanlesch 01:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Lampman (talk) 16:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

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Byron biographer Benita Eisler speculated that she died after suffering a recurrence of her malarial-type fevers, which she had also suffered from the previous autumn.

Cannot find RS for this statement. MurielMary (talk) 12:19, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
It is in the book by Benita Eisler, which is cited in the article. I have reverted your edits, which removed sourced information. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 12:45, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Hi Bookwoorm, in that case there needs to be a footnote at the end of the statement showing the reference. Also Clare Clairmont needs to be referred to as "Clairmont" not "Clare" as per WP style. Can we discuss the other changes as well? TIA. MurielMary (talk) 12:48, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
P.S. You'll see that I've also added quite a few new references so please don't go reverting edits en masse as the new additions of sources will be lost. MurielMary (talk) 12:51, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
As far as I know, the style that was not set in stone. The book is included in a list of references in the article. The article went through and passed the Good Article review process some time ago. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 12:56, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Hi again Bookworm, thanks for your message on my user page. I appreciate that this is a Good Article, however I could see improvements to make so I made them (as the template says, if you can improve an article, do so!). There were uncited statements and some statements weren't relevant to Allegra, and it also seemed out of sequence to have the poetry in the middle of the article as the article was otherwise chronological. MurielMary (talk) 12:57, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
With regard to the referencing, I'm following the page WP:Citing Sources which states, for example, "Wikipedia's Verifiability policy requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations, anywhere in article space.
A citation or reference in an article usually has two parts. In the first part, each section of text that is either based on, or quoted from, an outside source is marked as such with an inline citation. The inline citation may be a superscript footnote number, or an abbreviated version of the citation called a short citation. The second necessary part of the citation or reference is the list of full references, which provides complete, formatted detail about the source, so that anyone reading the article can find it and verify it."
MurielMary (talk) 13:03, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

And with regard to Clairmont vs. Clare, I'm using the page MOS:SURNAME which states "After the initial mention of any name, the person should generally be referred to by surname only". MurielMary (talk) 13:07, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Not set in stone at the time the article was written and the references used were included at the bottom of the article. I still have the book somewhere and undoubtedly could provide inline citations. Just not immediately. As for Clairmont, she was an aspiring writer, among other things. She was not a successful aspiring writer. I object to the removal of information from this article. The poem you mentioned was written about Allegra after her death. It, too, was cited in the Eisler book.. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 13:10, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
I don't think I actually removed much information at all, Bookworm - the poem I moved to the death/legacy section as that makes it chronologically accurate, and the mention of Clairmont as an aspiring writer was something I added then retracted as I couldn't find a reliable source to back it up! Apart from that, most of what I've done is reduce the overlinking (everyone knows what "lies" and "paradise" and "tantrums" are for example) and tidy up some expressions. Also, this article has been nominated for the Main Page for April 20, 2017, so it needs to adhere to current referencing standards (as stated above, inline citations). I hope it can be featured on the MP. MurielMary (talk) 13:19, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
In relation to citations, note that in 2006 advice was also given on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Peer_review/Allegra_Byron MurielMary (talk) 13:30, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Clairmont was an aspiring poet as a young woman, just not successful or very committed to it. It was mentioned in the Eisler book. I can find a citation for it in the book if you want to include it. I am not home today and would have to dig out the book to give page by page citations. That should be easy enough to do when I have some time. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 13:34, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Some more inline citations would be great, Bookworm! I will try and find that book here but it will take me some time I imagine. MurielMary (talk) 13:38, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
iIt might be in a university library there or on Amazon Kindle. I haven't read it in years, but it's still somewhere in my collection. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 13:44, 17 April 2017 (UTC)