# Talk:Bernard Lee

When I first saw this article, I was surprized to see that some random editor had placed Bernard Lee under the catagory titled "Gay Actors". As a big fan of the James Bond series and an admirer of Lee's performance as "M", I had to find out if this was true. However, during my research, I could not find any solid evidence (not even in the biography section for Lee in the Internet Movie Database) that Lee was actually a homosexual. Therefore, I came to the conclusion that the inclusion of the "Gay Actors" tag in this article was probably either the result of vandalism or malicious rumors and I felt obliged to remove this controversial tag. If anyone had any solid proof that Bernard Lee was in fact gay, please provide actual references before re-adding this catagory back into the article. Thank you!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaiser Taylor (talk • contribs) 10:10, 2 September 2009 (UTC) 
Actually, it was well known in the acting profession that Lee was both gay and an alcoholic.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.57.80 (talk) 10:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC) 

Then please provide the evidence in the form of citations.  In the absence of anything in the article to support him being gay, there is zero justification for having him in a gay category.  "Well-known" does not amount to any form of evidence.  For now at least, the category is being removed.  --  JackofOz (talk) 01:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bernard Lee/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Aircorn (talk · contribs) 15:42, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): 
 A number of Bond scholars have noted the Lee's interpretation... Grammar
Done -  SchroCat (^ • @) 00:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
he re-married again and was survived by his wife Ursula (née McHale) Is she now dead?
I can find no reference to her, so left the sentence in the past tense as she did survive him at the time. -  SchroCat (^ • @) 00:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 
He was born in either Cork, Republic of Ireland[2] or Brentford, London. A note saying why this is the case would be useful
Done -  SchroCat (^ • @) 00:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 
To be honest when I first clicked on this I thought this might be enough to fail the whole article, but the rest is so well done that I think it is better to explore this more. The article is very short, especially for an actor with over 100 films to his namee. Is there just not much information about him out there? I found this after quite a search, which mentions some hobbies and a daughter. Others [1] [2] [3] [4]. An interview would be awesome (one of those links suggests he did one). Mayne these can help or you can find more.
Thanks for these - there are a very few little bits around, but not an awful lot - he was not really in the press much as he was normally not a lead actor, but a cast member. I'll do a bit more digging around on this bit too. -  SchroCat (^ • @) 00:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
More background infor added - largely around the personal side of his life, but with a couple of professional bits in there too. -  SchroCat (^ • @) 14:17, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Do you have any more to add? AIRcorn (talk) 08:38, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
I think about about done now, thanks - a few more bits just added about his overall style and demeanour added to round it off. I'm hoping that this now fills it our sufficiently, but please let me know. Cheers -  SchroCat (^ • @) 12:54, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 
 Cork and Stutz observed that Lee was "very close to Fleming's version of the character",[10] whilst Rubin commented on the serious, efficient, no-nonsense authority figure. Who are these people? Why is there view important.
They are the Bond scholars referred to in the first part of the sentence—their works are the ones cited. Would you rather I expanded on the works, saying what they are? -  SchroCat (^ • @) 00:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
No. It is fine now that I look at it again. AIRcorn (talk) 01:30, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Drinkin is in some of those articles.
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 
No rational for using the picture in this article
Done -  SchroCat (^ • @) 00:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I would change #3 to say that no free images have been found of the actor (assuming this to be true), as that is the only reason we can use it. AIRcorn (talk) 01:39, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Now done. -  SchroCat (^ • @) 18:41, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Overall:
Pass/Fail: 


### Comments
Well done on the expansion. You deserve a lot of credit for getting as much information as you have. Unfortunately some prose issues have been introduced. They should be easily fixed though. I made some changes myself, feel free to revert any you don't agree with.[5]

work on the West End stage in thrillers, such as Blind Man's Bluff[4] and Ten Minute Alibi, where he played in a comedic role with Arthur Askey. It is unclear which play involved Askey (both or just the Ten Minute Alibi).
After wartime service in the army between 1940 and 1946,[6] with the Royal Sussex Regiment;[5] whilst Lee was awaiting his demob he attended golfing ladies night and met a producer, also a fellow guest, and Lee was offered a part in the play "Stage Door" This needs revising. Saying too much and too many commas to follow easily.
He returned to the stage whilst also developing a successful film career Is this Stage Door? What time frame is this? How does it fit in with the sentences around it?
 During the 1950s he appeared in a long run on stage as Able Seaman Turner... Not sure on this. "Appeared in a long run on stage" doesn't sound right.
 gave him a cheque for $6,000 to clear his debts note saying that everyone has a spot of trouble once in a while Something went wrong here, how does note fit in.
Three years after the fire, Lee married television director's assistant Ursula McHale[19] who was present at his death. who was present at his death would fit in better under death. It looks wrong here.
On 16 January 1981, Lee died at the Royal Free Hospital in London after a battle with stomach cancer, just six days after his 73rd birthday, having been admitted to hospital in November 1980 I would work the admitted into hospital first then the death if possible.
because of Lee's suffering from his condition. Would after witnessing Lee's suffereing be better?
Lee died after filming had started on For Your Eyes Only, but before he could film his scenes as M, as he had done in the previous eleven films of the James Bond series He died on the other films too?? :) Might need rewording to make it clearer.
Many thanks: I think I've covered all the above, but please let me know if there is anything I've missed, or if I've missed something else. Cheers -  SchroCat (^ • @) 14:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
During the 1950s he was in a long run on stage I still not sure about this. "He had a long run on stage"? AIRcorn (talk) 08:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Yep - you're right about that: it reads a lot more clearly now. Cheers -  SchroCat (^ • @) 08:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Fantastic news - thanks very much for the trouble you went to on this: it's much appreciated! Cheers -  SchroCat (^ • @) 10:23, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
I don't mean to be a spoil sport but this article is severerly lacking adequate discussion of his career as an actor. It blindly ignores discussion of his theatrical career, ignores decades of his career let alone critical commentary on his acting roles aside from M.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:08, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes the information just isn't there. I had a look and the links above were all I could find. AIRcorn (talk) 20:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

I read that Lee's career spanned 1934 to 1979, beginning on stage at the age of six.  That seems to suggest he was born in 1928.  Yet, I also see he was born in 1908, so he turned six in 1914, not 1934.   Was "six" meant to say "twenty six"? --  ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 06:22, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

In the GRO births index there is an entry for a John Bernard Lee, March quarter 1908, Registration district Brentford, volume 3a, page 224. This supports the statement that he was born in London rather than Cork.
In the 1911 census the entry for 67 Speldhurst Road, Acton Green, West London lists the following family:
Charles Edmund Lee    47    Theatrical Actor    Armagh City Ireland Resident
Ellen Lee (married 7 years)    30     Liverpool Lancs
Edmund James Lee      5     Fulham S W
John Bernard Lee         3     Chiswick W
This appears to be the correct family: Chiswick is within the Brentford registration district. However, his father is Charles Edmund Lee (not Edmund James Lee)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.28.50.36 (talk) 02:30, 23 June 2012 (UTC) 

Yes, I saw these when I re-wrote the article. Unfortunately neither of them categorically state that it is the same Bernard Lee as the article, and the reliable sources show either London or Cork, which is why we have shown both and explained why. -  SchroCat (^ • @) 09:16, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Someone raised this at OTRS - as I had some Ancestry.co.uk credits unused - I had a look there (Note: Irish records before the split are part of the UK system).  I can state that according to the UK Birth records and 1911 Census records. NB:All one can see on Ancestry.co.uk is a three month index giving a volume and page number.
There was a John Bernard Lee born in Brentford and in the index for Jan/Mar 1908 (Vol 3a p 224) - one would need to buy the birth certificate to get more detail, and the Chiswick census is correct as above.
There are no John Lee or John Bernard Lee born in Cork in the range 1907-1909.
J B Lee Married "Cook or Merredew" in Hampstead, Jan/Mar 1934 (Vol 1a p 1218)
J B Lee Married Mchale in Hampstead, Jan/Mar 1975 (Vol 12 p 1279)
John Bernard Lee died in Camden, born 10th Jan 1908 in Jan/Mar 1981 (Vol 14 p 2155)
 Ronhjones  (Talk) 16:28, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Savolya, When one of your Bold edits is Reverted, you should Discuss, not just try and force your opinions onto an article. There is no need for a misleading and pointless box at the top of the page, and your nothing in the MOS that demands one is there. Additionally, and as I pointed out on my talk page to you, your effort was error-strewn, with contentious details, wrong active years, ridiculous POV in the known for field and a foreign date format. - SchroCat (talk) 12:01, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Agree completely, left a message on his talk page until he reverted me here. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:24, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Agree. How bloody childish reverting a polite message; illustrative of the kind of person he or she must be. -- CassiantoTalk 12:45, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
The sort that leaves such charming messages on the talk page of others. - SchroCat (talk) 13:11, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Six years in uniform  -  might we know what rank, whether he was posted abroad, and whether he saw active service? Valetude (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Nope, sadly not. There is no information available in any of the sources I've found that deal with it. It's made more difficult by the fact that there is no biography or autobiography about him, and not even an entry in the Dictionary of National Biography that we can use. - SchroCat (talk) 19:58, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Thought it might be useful to mention that "OK Connery" was released as "Operation Kid Brother" in the UK.46.7.195.132 (talk) 20:29, 5 October 2019 (UTC)