# Talk:2011 Giro d'Italia

I strongly discourage writing this section while the race is ongoing. The optimal time is right after the race ends (when the Giro is still fresh in our minds, and sources are easy to find, but we know the full context of everything that's happened). And to be blunt, I'm probably going to tear down whatever's there when I write such a section myself (I wrote all the substantial prose for the articles on the last four editions of the Giro, currently 3 GA's and 1 FA). But in any case, what we think is important today (Cavendish getting hosed) may not end up being important as soon as tomorrow. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 01:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
What happened to the Wouter Weylandt piece? 46.129.11.19 (talk) 16:45, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Nothing. I added headers before writing the prose that will go under them, something I have always done when writing articles, whether literally or figuratively, from scratch. I just have not had the time to devote to this article that I would have liked, hence why it has been blank so long. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 06:28, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

But I am planning major revisions and expansions to this page, after I finish up with the second stages page. I'm not telling anyone not to edit, far from it, but I think my track record speaks for itself (I was the primary writer for the articles on each of the last four editions of the Giro, all of them at GA or FA status). Think of this as a (hopefully) friendly reminder that the page will look very different when I'm done with it. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 06:35, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

2 problems with this calculation.
The degree of accuracy is untenable.   0.019 km/h over the course of 84 hours is about 1.5km, or an error margin in the distance of each mass start stage of about 80m, although these distances are only recorded to the nearest km.  This is a recurring problem with the level of accuracy of speed that we report on bike races.
The other issue is race specific.  In the data for this race, the 216 km of stage four was recorded as having been travelled in 0 seconds, and stage 14 had its route changed twice.  I don't recall ever seeing a final figure of the distance actually raced on that day other than approximations of where they were when they abandoned plan B of going up the Tualis.  
Sorry, but in the circumstances, the current figure in that field of the infobox is not tenable, and I'm not sure that another would be fully verifiable.  Kevin McE (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

All right then, I'll take it out. No big deal. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 23:35, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Why has a connection been made between the death of Xavier Tondo and the 2011 Giro? I can't understand why anyone would think this belongs in a Giro 2011 article. The only connection is tenuous to say the least and as he wasn't riding in the Giro, nor was he killed whilst riding in the Giro, how has this connection been made? It seems to me that it has been put in simply to make the article more melodramatic and certainly takes away from the fact that Wouter Weylandt was actually killed during the course of the race. I'm not saying Tondo's death was any less traumatic than Weylandt's, just that it doesn't belong in this article. Sorry for not logging in - Ellie.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.200.116 (talk) 21:10, 2 August 2011 (UTC) 

Maybe try reading the article? The impact Tondó's death had on the race is very clearly explained. Weylandt's death is duly given greater weight in the article, but Tondó's death is part of the story of this Giro. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 05:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for suggesting I read the article after a lot of heavy editing.  I have to say, you are very ungracious in your responses to suggestions so I therefore shall not be coming back to this article or any others you edit as you seem to be under the impressions that they are "yours".  Perhaps if you learn a few manners and a little etiquette then I may reconsider.  Going back to my original suggestion, I repeat - I am still of the opinion that including Tondo's death as an actual part of the 2011 Giro is tenuous and grasps at desperation. By all means, mention him in the article in respect of the riders' tributes etc, but why have a paragraph headed "Tondo's Death" - it's misleading at the very least and does nothing to add to an article on the 2011 Giro.  There is a separate page for Tondo - that is where this belongs and the editor of that page has not tried to make some weak link to the 2011 Giro.  Maybe you should go and add this paragraph in there?  Tondo's death is NOT a part of the story of this year's Giro and I find it terribly arrogant of you to insist it is.  Ellie  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.182.70 (talk) 01:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC) 

Obvious troll is obvious. Buh bye. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 04:52, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Such an issue is not going to be a matter of right or wrong, and comes down to personal opinion as to where the balance lies, but I (as a Caisse d'Epargne/Movistar fan) think that it is probably disproportionate in this article.  There is actually considerably more about his death and the response to it here than at his own article. I believe a sentence or two at the end of the Weylandt paragraph would suffice. Kevin McE (talk) 09:48, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
The fact that there's less content in his own article has nothing to do with this one. Copy it wholesale, if you like. If you haven't noticed, I tend not to edit rider articles (I think Contador was the only one I've ever done much with) beyond keeping the current team accurate. I don't fancy myself a biographer, more of a reporter (and yes, I know neither of those terms, strictly speaking, are what we do here). I really don't think there's such a problem. The assertion by the uppity IP that Tondó's death had nothing at all to do with the Giro is just demonstratably false, and the (very short) section on him in this article speaks only to the direct effects it had on the race. So what exactly is the issue? Would you like for there to be more about Wouter? Because there certainly can be more written about him, just not that directly relates to this race. Tondó's death had an impact on the last six days of the race. Um...fact. I'm sure if someone else connected to cycling, but directly associated with this particular race, had died while it was being run, that would have as well. You can't really compare it to anything else – riders have died during competition before, but has a rider not in competition died during a major Tour before? Have two top-level riders died within two weeks of each other before? To take it out would remove something from the understanding of the race. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 10:38, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Calm down: I didn't suggest taking it out altogether.  I think you have almost admitted that you tend to err on the side of a journalistic rather than purely encyclopaedic approach.  It is true that Tondo's death had nothing to do with the running of the Giro: it was marked during the event, but the death of Weylandt was marked by Farrar in the Tour, and the death of LL Sánchez' brother is marked every time he wins a stage.  I believe that a sentence or two would suffice: please don't take that as a personal affront.  Balance is a matter of opinion, opinions can respectfully differ. Let's see if anyone else has a view on the matter.  Kevin McE (talk) 11:38, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm fine. I don't take it as a personal affront, I just really, really strongly disagree. What would your "sentence or two" be, exactly? "Tondo died. Some people noticed." (an exaggeration) There's more to it than that. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 11:52, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Something like Movistar team member Xavier Tondo died at his home in Spain during the race.  Stage wins by his compatriot Alberto Contador (stage 16) and his team mate Vasil Kiryienka (stage 20) were dedicated to him, and other respects were paid.  Or, use exactly the phrasing in the lead paragraph, moving it from there, which I would think to be part of the same issue of disproportionate treatment.  Kevin McE (talk) 12:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
I just don't think that's enough, though we're chasing our tails at this point. But thank you at least for not saying "I can't understand why anyone would think this belongs in a Giro 2011 article" (because that's just asinine revisionism) Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 16:50, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
"On abvious troll is obvious" - so in your eyes, a 'troll' is someone who disagrees or challenges part of 'your' article? No, I am not a troll of any description whatsoever - yes, I am someone who is concerned that far too much weight has been put on Tondo's death in relation to the 2011 Giro. The fact that there is now another opinion on this matters lends validity to this point.  I did not once suggest that the whole Tondo part be removed, just that in it's entirety it does not belong in a 2011 Giro article.  Yes, mention the fact that Tondo died and the riders' responses to that, but do not pretend that it's justified as is - this is not a journalistic article and you have readily admitted that you err on the side of journalism. As an editor of Wikipedia, I think a little professionalism in your responses would go a long way to improving discussion - after all, that is what this page is here for - discussion, not jibes at people who question the article.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.59.119.225 (talk) 13:11, 31 October 2011 (UTC) 

Do whatever you think is best. I've been done with this article for a few months now. I'm not gonna convince you, you're not gonna convince me. So either ask other people, or just do whatever you want. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 05:15, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

An anonymous contributor edited in a length of 172 km for this stage. Does anyone know where this figure comes from? It should be cited, or removed. Green-eyed girl (Talk · Contribs) 05:47, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:2011 Giro d'Italia/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Resolute (talk · contribs) 04:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written.
a (prose):  b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): 

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references):  b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR): 

It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects):  b (focused): 

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 

It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):  b (appropriate use with suitable captions): 

Overall:
Pass/Fail: 

General
Images are good
Sources are good; both references to Facebook go to the tournament's official page
Specific spotchecks not done yet
Spotcheck of sources shows they support the prose, no issue with close paraphrasing.
Lead
I think it would be beneficial to specify what classifications Garzelli and Kreuziger won rather than to just say they "won the other two jersey awards", as well as to note that Scarponi was also elevated to the points title.
Fixed. Craig(talk) 17:49, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Teams
"Two UCI Professional Continental were announced..." - Should be "Two UCI Professional Continental teams were announced"?
Yes it should. Craig(talk) 17:49, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Race previews and favorites
"The 2011 Giro was thus the third successive edition, and fourth in the last five, in which the reigning champion did not return to defend his championship." - Citation?
Cited. Craig(talk) 21:48, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"Again like they had in 2010, the team reactivated the two riders just after the Giro ended." - Awkward.  Perhaps "As with 2010, the team reactivated the two riders after the Giro ended."?
Changed to that. Craig(talk) 21:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"The near total dearth of flat, sprinter-friendly stages did not stop the three arguably best sprinters in the world, Mark Cavendish, Tyler Farrar, and Alessandro Petacchi, from all taking the start." - citation for the satus of these three as being "three arguably best sprinters in the world"?
It's a borderline POV statement that. Amended to just sprinters. Craig(talk) 22:56, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"One sprinter who was expected to start, Farnese Vini-Neri Sottoli's Andrea Guardini, was not part of the start list." - duplicate use of 'start'.  Reword slightly?
Reworded. Craig(talk) 21:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Routes and stages
Ref 40, dealing with the exclusion of the Monte Cristis climb is misplaced.  It does not support the two sentences it follows, but ref 41 does.  I would just move ref 40 up, to the point ending at "...and the stage was reduced in length from its originally planned length of 210 km (130 mi)."
Repositioned. Craig(talk) 17:54, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
"In spite of first-hand criticism from riders, following the race, that the route was excessively difficult and dangerous..." - remove the two commas.  They introduce unnecessary pauses.
Removed. Craig(talk) 17:54, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Race overview
"...though this result was obviously overshadowed by the death of Wouter Weylandt earlier in the stage." - I'd strike 'obviously'
Struck away. Craig(talk) 19:04, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
It is explained lower in the article, but it might be helpful to briefly note that the peleton chose not to run stage four competitively following the rider's death.  Also, referring to stage five as "the fourth stage to be run competitively..." is slightly confusing.  I initially thought this referred to the actual stage four.
Clarified using wording from the Stage 1 to 11 page. Craig(talk) 19:04, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
"...there was speculation that Contador may tactically relinquish the jersey." - 'may' reads to me as a future-tense verb in a past-tense statement.  Change to "would", perhaps?
Replaced. Craig(talk) 21:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"The Spaniard himself hinted that such a move may be in his plans." - same as above.  I would replace the usage of 'may'.
Replaced. Craig(talk) 21:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"Contador did not attempt to sprint for the win, seemingly content to allow Rujano to take it." - POV statement, as the editor is attempting to guess at the motivations of the subject. I would finish the sentence with simply "...allowing Rujano to take it."
Altered. Craig(talk) 21:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"Contador's two stage wins and numerous top five placings also made him the winner of the points competition, by a substantial margin. Michele Scarponi and Vincenzo Nibali completed the podium, in that order, having targeted one another once it became obvious that Contador's advantage was insurmountable. Nibali held second place on stages 13 and 14, but Scarponi overtook him on Gardeccia, finishing a minute and a half better (only six seconds the lesser of Contador), and never relinquished second place. Stefano Garzelli was in the breakaway on the Gardeccia stage and took maximum points on three of the day's five climbs, and second place points on the other two. It was largely thanks to this performance that he won the mountains classification at the end of the race. Roman Kreuziger, still eligible by a matter of months, won the youth competition with his ride to sixth place overall." - None of this has a citation
Cites where possible. Craig(talk) 22:20, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"...but prior to Cavendish's second victory no team, let alone individual rider..." - I don't see the point of italicizing 'team' here.
Removed. Craig(talk) 21:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"Mikel Nieve the next day won the stage that..." - awkward.  Perhaps either "The next day, Mikel Nieve won the stage that...", or "Mikel Nieve won the next stage, which..."?
Altered to The next day, Mikel Nieve won the stage that... Craig(talk) 21:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
"...it could be said that 15 of the 22 teams that completed the race came away with some sort of victory." - strike 'it could be said'
Removed. Craig(talk) 21:38, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Death of Xavier Tondó
That Contador was the 'eventual winner' is noted twice in one paragraph.  It took me a moment to realize each use had different contexts (first was overall race?, second was that stage).  It would help reduce my confusion to reword one usage.
Reworded the latter usage. Craig(talk) 17:49, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Classification leadership
I have a feeling I'm about to suggest breaking a standard across several articles, but the dark green background and blue link for the final winner of the mountains classification in the table is nearly impossible to read.  Is it possible to use a slightly lighter font of green there?
Gone slightly lighter, if you want to double check that. Hate the "green" or "darkgreen" usages myself! Craig(talk) 17:49, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Reads better to me, but those tables may be worth discussing at the project level, as I am quite sure they fail accessibility guidelines pretty badly. Resolute 20:20, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
Overall
An excellent article!  Very thorough, but huge!  As such, I found many small issues, but none major.  I have not yet done a source spot check, so I may have more to add later - though I find this unlikely. For now, I am placing on hold pending resolution of issues identified above.  Regards, Resolute 04:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

And now passing, Congrats! Resolute 01:03, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Hi. What do the different clour dots mean? And the different colour circles around the dots? Could someone who knows please include this information? Regards, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 07:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Red dots are departure towns, green dots are arrival towns. Not sure what you mean by circles. Castelfidardo and Orvieto are both red and green because they're both an arrival town and a departure town. The fact that they're the only ones kind of shows how nutty Zomegnan was.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.160.130.14 (talk) 13:21, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 94 external links on 2011 Giro d'Italia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cas-sanction-contador-with-two-year-ban-in-clenbuterol-case
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/androni-giocattoli-team-wins-the-italian-championship
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6432/Italian-champ-Visconti-and-Farnese-Vini-team-guaranteed-a-ride-in-2011-Giro-dItalia.aspx
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-ditalia-rcs-sport-invites-23-teams
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/giro-ditalia/contador-to-race-2011-giro-ditalia-claims-zomegnan-61465
Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/sports/cycling/16contador.html?_r=0
Corrected formatting/usage for http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2011-05-05-alberto-contador-giro-favorite_N.htm
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.bicycle.net/2011/contador-goes-into-giro-as-favorite-to-win
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=20110507100072
Corrected formatting/usage for http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/alberto-contador-starts-as-top-contender-for-giro-ditalia-crown_171251
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/giro-ditalia/contador-is-bookies-favourite-for-giro-52366
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8189/Ivan-Basso-explains-Giro-dItalia-no-show.aspx
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.irishpeloton.com/2011/05/the-giro-ditalia-and-the-maglia-rosa/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/liquigas-leader-vincenzo-nibali-one-of-the-favorites-for-2011-giro-ditalia_170939
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8319/Astana-puts-everything-behind-Kreuziger-in-Giro-dItalia.aspx
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8327/Giro-dItalia-Last-years-runner-up-David-Arroyo-is-in-good-form.aspx
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.roadcycling.com/Giro-d-Italia-2011-Preview
Corrected formatting/usage for http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/04/news/richie-porte-to-ride-in-support-of-alberto-contador-at-giro-ditalia_170597
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8306/Machado-gets-leadership-role-in-RadioShack-squad-for-Giro-dItalia.aspx
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-mantova-investigation-riders-in-lampre-isd-giro-ditalia-team
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Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.universalsports.com/news-blogs/article/newsid%3D532148.html
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6137/2011-Giro-dItalia-with-409-kilometers-of-climbing.aspx
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Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8598/Giro-dItalia-The-hardest-race-I-ever-rode-says-Fumiyuki-Beppu.aspx
Corrected formatting/usage for http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/news/michael-barry-diary-organizers-%E2%80%94-and-riders-%E2%80%94-need-to-take-responsibility-for-race-safety_178326
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2011/stage-1/results
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Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=18789
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.teamlampre.it/en/2011/05/giro-ditalia-scarponi-4%C2%B0-sul-gardeccia/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/garzelli-to-race-through-2012-after-success-in-giro-ditalia
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2011/stage-10/results
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2011/stage-17/results
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Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-plays-wrong-anthem-for-champion-contador
Corrected formatting/usage for http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=6513865
Corrected formatting/usage for http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2011-05-09-cyclist-wouter-weylandt-injured-giro_N.htm
Corrected formatting/usage for http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/crash-witness-%E2%80%98weylandt-was-catapulted-across-the-road%E2%80%99_172140
Corrected formatting/usage for http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/video-wouter-weylandt-memorial-at-crash-scene_172277
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nygaard-and-leopard-trek-share-in-grief-of-weylandt-family
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/millar-pays-tribute-to-weylandt
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-zomegnan-to-respect-memory-of-weylandt
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/farrar-to-leave-the-giro-ditalia-after-stage-4
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Corrected formatting/usage for http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/29052011/58/giro-d-italia-kiryienka-remembers-tondo-win.html
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/movistar-to-continue-in-giro-in-the-wake-of-tondos-death
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Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/belgian-federation-calls-for-continued-use-of-race-number-108
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Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/contador-to-ride-giro-ditalia-tour-de-france-remains-uncertain-54177
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8250/Contador-case-WADA-and-UCI-doping-appeals-to-CAS-remain-separate.aspx
Corrected formatting/usage for http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/contadors-cas-hearing-scheduled-for-august_176702
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-doping-verdict-expected-in-january
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/02/06/alberto-contador-stripped-2010-tour-de-france-title
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-champions-spring-to-contadors-defence
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/02/06/reaction-contadors-ban
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/06/us-cycling-contador-reaction-idUSTRE8150YH20120206
Corrected formatting/usage for http://blogs.bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/reactions-from-sean-kelly-patrick-lefevere-others-in-europe-to-contador-suspension
Corrected formatting/usage for http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/giro08/?id=%2Ffeatures%2F2008%2Fgiro_classifications08
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100603221313/http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTU2MzU&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NDk5MDY&LangId=1 to http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTU2MzU&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NDk5MDY&LangId=1
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100724043126/http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MjExMw&LangId=1 to http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MjExMw&LangId=1
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