# Talk:Albert Kesselring

The Italian government refused to carry out death sentences, as the death penalty had been abolished in Italy in 1944 and was regarded as a relic of Mussolini's Fascist regime. The Italian decision was very disappointing to the British government because the trials had partly been intended to meet the expectations of the Italian public.
I'm quite skeptic about this statement, or at least about the given reasoning.
For one, capital punishment had been reinstated for certain common crimes on May 10, 1945, and continued to be in force until January 1, 1948 (not to mention that it had never been abolished for wartime offences, including war crimes). It was definitely in force for both common and war crimes both at the time of the Ardeatine massacre in 1944 and when Kesselring was convicted in 1947. Executions of war criminals with much less severe responsibilities were carried out as late as March 1947.
In addition, Kesselring was moved to Austria within ten days from the conviction, which suggests that the execution was always meant to be carried by the British (as expected for a sentence rendered by a British court). And of course I can't find public sources suggesting that the Italian government was opposed to the execution.
Does anyone have the source at hand?
Daydreamers (talk) 11:30, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

The source says:
The Italian position also had a direct influence on British war crimes policy when it came to deciding on a venue: as it transpired, it would actually be impossible to sentence Kesselring to death in Italy. Pursuant to an inquiry from the Foreign Ministry in Rome, the Italian military prosecutor stated that Italian law would preclude "imposing the death penalty on Kesselring in view of the evidence submitted", and this finding would also apply to Mackensen and Maltzer. The death penalty could only be imposed for "premeditated crimes" such as those which Herbert Kappler was charged, since such crimes had been explicitly exempted when the death penalty was abolished. It also appeared that Italy was unwilling to assume any responsibility for the verdict of the British military tribunal and, further, that it wanted the British to bear sole responsibility for the enforcement of that verdict. The Italian government refused to execute Kesselring because the death penalty was considered a "Fascist practice", and had been abolished in Italy in 1944.The British were extremely vexed by the attitude of the Italians, for the sentences had partly been imposed to meet the expectations of the Italian public and to make the Allied occupation of Italy easier.
Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

To editor Hawkeye7: This is already an A-class article. Why is it re-submitted for lesser "good article" status? Chris Troutman (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

It lost its GA status when it was stripped of its FA status by the FAR coordinator. I thought GA would be a stepping stone to having its status restored but it doesn't look like it will be reviewed.  Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:17, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
It is worth noting that someone is more likely to notice a GA icon in the top right corner of an article, indicating that the article is a decent article, than for someone to go into the talk page and notice that the article has been rated as A-class. Plus, all that would happen is an icon to appear in the top right corner of the article and the GA template being put on the talk page. If the article was currently a featured article, which it isn't anymore, than I would understand why someone would be concerned about nominating it for GA status (it is against an unincorporated GA criterion). Lazman321 (talk) 04:07, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Albert Kesselring/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Lazman321 (talk · contribs) 18:17, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

As part of the October 2020 Backlog Drive, I will be reviewing this article. Lazman321 (talk) 18:17, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I have a confession to make. I don't have any of the books that are cited in this article and I don't have access to The Wikipedia Library. Do you still think I should do this review? Lazman321 (talk) 18:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
A source check is not necessary at GA level. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:30, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. I have reviewed this article, but have not finished. Will finish tomorrow. Lazman321 (talk) 05:41, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


### Well written
#### Clear and concise prose
I could read the article and understand what it is saying. Though Grammarly, an extension that can detect grammar errors in any text you are typing in, has detected a lot of grammar mistakes that aren't worth me telling you. I will most likely correct them myself after the other requests have been taken care of.


#### MOS Adherence
All the MOS that need to be followed for GA status is followed in this article.


### Verifiable with no original research
#### Reference list
There is a reference list. This type is an interesting type as it has a bibliography and a lot of the citations cite pages of the books. I do kind of prefer when the author and book title is linked to their respective book in the bibliography, though I won't require it.


#### Reliable sources
The article uses the memoirs of Albert Kesselring. I am alright with that as a lot of the memoir cited information does attribute the information to the memoirs or to Albert himself and it is mentioned in Albert's later life section that the memoirs are biased, there are some that aren't. Those include information supported by citations 9, 13, 157, 165, and 258.
I've also noticed that Citations 249-251 are placed throughout their paragraph about what division committed the massacres and when. Citations 249 and 251 do not specify which division of the army carried out the massacres but do give specific dates of some of the massacres. I am not sure about Citation 250. I believe Citations 249-251 should be placed at the end of the paragraph.

I think they are better at the end of the clauses, because we would wind up with too many at the end of the paragraph. Citation 249 definitely mentions the Herman Goering Division: Now, the Hermann Goering Division had been concerned in a number of three -- I call them incidents; I would not say -- what I mean by incidents is the sort of thing which I have been describing at Civitella. Let me remind you of one or two. Do you remember at Stia, on the 13th to the 18th of April, 137 civilians were killed, including 45 women and children; do you remember that incident? Civitella, that was on the 29th of June. It was a division of the Air Force, not the Army; the three examples were chosen so there was one each from the Air Force, the Army and the SS. I have added a couple of additional references to bolster citation 251. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:31, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Other than that, a lot of the citations are to books from historians and even the ones that are recommended in the FARC are used.


#### Original Research
In the FARC review, there was only one original research complaint. It was, however, addressed and taken care of. I detected no original research from the citations that I could access.


#### No copyright violations
Kesselring was determined to "hang on" in the West until the "decision in the East" came. is a direct copy-paste from citation 260. I recommend either quoting it or paraphrasing it.

Paraphrased. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:20, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


### Broad in its coverage
#### Main aspects
K.e. Coffman brought this up in the review, The article does not mention Kesselring's support for National Socialism, his silence on the ejection of Jewish soldiers from the armed forces, and loyalty to Hitler. Do you think that this request has been taken under enough consideration?
I has been by me. To address the three points:

Support for National Socialism is somewhat nebulous. Unlike some professions, career military officers were not required to join the NSDAP. Indeed, they were forbidden by law from joining political parties. Kesselring supported the policies of rebuilding of the Army and the Air Force, which is covered in the text.
Kesselring left the Army in October 1933, and the ejection of Jewish officers began in 1935. I looked for references about his opinions on the matter, but finding sources on things that people did not do is very difficult, and nothing turned up.
Kesselring's loyalty to Hitler is referenced in many parts of the article.
Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:48, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


#### Focus
There isn't a focus problem in this article. This one is satisfied.


### Neutral
I've looked and read a lot of the article and have never gotten the impression that this article was praising him. I believe that this article portrays him neutrally and mentions that his memoirs are biased. Any normal person reading the actions that Albert has done would look at him as an evil Nazi. I don't get why some people think this article is praising him.


### Stable
This article is not going through edit wars currently.


### Illustrated
#### Free or tagged images
Every image used is either under a commons license or in the public domain. 


#### Relevant images
Every image used is relevant to the article and/or the section that they are used for.


### Overall
A lot of work has been put into this article during and since the review. This article is almost ready for GA status. I am putting this  On hold for 7 days.  Lazman321 (talk) 04:17, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

All the issues have been taken care of. I now  Pass this article. I recommend before nominating this article for FA status, you put this up peer review. Lazman321 (talk) 17:25, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

" ... the Austrian government, which ordered his deportation. He ignored the order and completed his tour, ... " - why didn't the gov't send officials to enforce the order? Why was it left 'voluntary'? 50.111.51.247 (talk) 13:22, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

The Austrian People's Party supported Kesselring, and the Australian government reacted only in response to pressure from the Soviet and Communist press. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:14, 11 March 2021 (UTC)