# Talk:American Song Contest

I re-wrote the article with the information currently available from the May 2021 news articles and EBU/Eurovision press releases to remove a maintenance tag. I also fixed the table to align with WP:ACCESSABILITY. I think it would be helpful if someone who has more time could write an source an Origins/History section before the Production section briefly explaining the Eurovision Song Contest with the further information hatnote to History of the Eurovision Song Contest. It would also be helpful to include some information from 2019 and 2020 about the American Song Contest in this section before it was officially confirmed for NBC today and where Logo TV and Netflix aired/streamed past ESC contests and a mention to Netflix's film Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 03:53, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm not very experienced when it comes to Wiki editing but if someone could please make a note regarding the Artist/Song change for Missouri it would be greatly appreciated.  DJddog5 (talk) 17:11, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Hey! Would it be a good idea to separate the Participants section and the actual Qualifying Rounds and Semi-Finals section? CeolAnGhra (talk) 16:26, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, nevermind. Someone already did it. CeolAnGhra (talk) 23:20, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

There is another event titled "American Song Contest," which is organized by the Embassy of Kyrgyzstan in the United States. Should we include a distinguisher tag with this as well? TreseTrese (talk) 16:08, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

yes we should 2601:2C2:900:4240:D8DE:4C24:7924:A04D (talk) 00:51, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

This table is completely useless because it contains no information at all. I think we should wait for it to be included until we actually have any info. ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 08:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Done. TreseTrese (talk) 04:46, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand why this should be its own section. It contains very little information (only a list of five countries – something that could just be a single sentence) and is not at all a big aspect of the contest, not like any of the other sections. I've been bold and merged it with the production section a few times now but every time it got reverted by an unregistered user without explanation. ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 00:40, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi,I feel like we should merge the list of participants and dates of the 2022 shows into a new 'American Song Contest 2022' page, and the current page could be just kept to topics related to ASC as a contest, similar to the current Eurovision page.Thanks!POLARIS183 (talk) 19:55, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

This page is actually formatted more like a television show (since ASC is essentially that). As such, a page for each "season" typically only comes after the show has been renewed for a second season. Right now everything about the competition itself is related to the current year. Grk1011 (talk) 20:02, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
OK, so will we create two '22 and '23 pages next year?
Also, should we do a map of which countries have selected their song, and have been knocked out at which round?
Thanks!
POLARIS183 (talk) 16:07, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
This is not the Eurovision Song Contest. This is a singing competition inspired by Eurovision. It is a television show, not an event. Grk1011 (talk) 16:17, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
@Grk1011 actually might not be a bad idea to split this page into two. This page is already becoming quite big and the further into the show we go the bigger it will become. There is enough information that the two pages can stand on their own. In my sandbox is what a season/contest page could look like. The information there is only pertaining to the first contest with hatnotes linking to relevant sections of the parent page for more detail. The parent page needs some cleanup badly and splitting it into two could help with that. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 19:03, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
I think its typically because to frame a season page when you only have one, you need to duplicate all of the production section of the main article. Unlike events/shows with many seasons, every aspect about the development of show when there's only one season is part of that initial season. The article just barely satisfies WP:SIZERULE right now and it's mostly due to the tables, not the prose. I think it makes sense to wait it out and keep everything together for readability. Open to other thoughts. Grk1011 (talk) 13:01, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
I agree that it's to early to split the pages, but I think that a map is a good idea. Europe2016 ~ talk ~ Eurovision 08:04, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
File:ASC_2022_Map.svg has been created, and it's in use on the German-language page - could someone add it in? POLARIS183 (talk) 16:14, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Norway’s public TV channel NRK1 will broadcast the show and in Sweden the show will be broadcast no SVT1. 2001:8A0:F968:3601:CDD7:6A74:198C:7082 (talk) 11:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Portugal’ public TV channel RTP1 will broadcast the show. 2001:8A0:F968:3601:CD64:77EA:7E45:6F3C (talk) 12:40, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

In the Eurovision Song Contest, next to the song column in a table that details all of the songs, the language of the song is featured. Due to the fact that it is confirmed that English will not be the only language that appears in the American Song Contest, shouldn't a language column be added to the songs table?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.116.208 (talk) 21:25, 18 March 2022 (UTC) 

We probably should wait and see what languages the songs are in. So far all seem to be in English based on the clips except Puerto Rico's might be a mix of Spanish and English. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 18:57, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
Oops just saw this now. I already removed the language column. Most will be English, some will have phrases in other languages, etc, but it's not a critical part of the entry. No other American music competition has such column. Grk1011 (talk) 13:24, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Some entries are not fully in English though, take for instance the entry from U.S. Virgin Islands which is a complete mixture of English, Spanish, and Virgin Islands Creole. Another case would be the entry from Arizona which is completely in Spanish, with only one line in English. I think it would be better to put a specific languages section, just like in Eurovision Wikipedia articles although majority of the songs are in English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.168.39.6 (talk) 21:21, 11 April 2022 (GMT)
I feel given we now have a song almost completely in another and the contest been regional based (Like sister contest Eurovision); Language column is important part of the page, given the difference regional languages and diolect that have/will be used in the song contest.  DJddog5 (talk) 05:13, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

I haven't found any peer US-centric articles that list the languages for a song competition show. Are there specific links/sources that discuss the language aspect as it relates to the show? If not, then it just seems like undue weight and/or a fun fact. Sources for each language will need to be provided at a minimum if the column is to be added back, as language is not listed anywhere on the ASC website. Grk1011 (talk) 13:32, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
The two main sourcs I've found that include the lyrics of the songs are the official YouTube channel of NBC , where the live ASC performances are being uploaded and its lyrics are included as subtitles, and Genius.com, where most of the lyrics are being transcripted. I think that it is important to include the languages for two reasons:
- As you said earlier, "this is a singing competition inspired by Eurovision". Even if this article is going to be treated as a television show, it   should have a similar format as Eurovision and its sister contests when we're talking about languages.
- If languages are not included, readers might get confused if they're not familiar with the songs and may lead them to think the songs are fully in English. While PR, AZ or VI's song titles are in Spanish, they would not know if these are fully in Spanish (as in AZ) or partially in English (PR & VI). In the case of FL, its English title doesn't even refer to its usage of Spanish. Also, some important facts of the songs will be ommited, such as VI's inclusion of Virgin Islands Creole, MP's usage of a Chamorro word or OK's lines in Korean. 2806:1000:8002:C690:5483:7E26:799F:C159 (talk) 21:10, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
I guess I'm not sure why it's important? It's just one characteristic of the songs. Why not genre for example, which arguably would be more important to the reader/listener? In my mind, while based on Eurovision, this is completely separate and has a very specific audience that differs from Eurovision. Grk1011 (talk) 21:33, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
I don't know why the languages of the songs "are not important". It's the main element as it is the way each song is told, conveying specific feelings a different language may not portray the same way; genres are not included because assigning a specific genre to a song may be subject to debate, meanwhile, languages may be easily identified, reaching mutual consensus between users; someone can argue if a song is pop music, R&B or hip hop, however, they may not argue if the song is written in English or not as the lyrics prove them right or wrong. I agree that ASC and ESC are two different things, even if they're related in some way; however, completely erasing its languages from the article might seem excesive and restrictive.
When the languages were first deleted on 13:09, 23 March 2022, we didn't know if the rest of the songs had lines in other languages. However, we now know that at least one of the songs has been partially in another language in each episode. When they were readded on 04:37, 6 April 2022, edits and corrections that complemented the section were made by several users for 4~5 days before they were deleted again, this shows that I'm not the only one interested in the section and users are aware of its importance. 2806:1000:8002:C690:5483:7E26:799F:C159 (talk) 03:42, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Languages are not important; "It's the main element as it is the way each song is told, conveying specific feelings a different language may not portray the same way" means nothing at all. Language is not an "element", and we don't do any kind of song analysis here anyway. Grk1011 is correct; it's simply not a relevant thing--and genre is probably more meaningful, but that also shouldn't be included. These articles typically go overboard on the detail, and the next thing I'm going to do is to remove these stupid MOS:FLAG violations. And whoever thought that those state flags are cute, think again. Drmies (talk) 03:47, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
So going through your logic, should we remove all the languages section in every Eurovision article since it's irrelevant? 103.168.39.6 (talk) 13:22, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
You do realize that different countries that speak different languages competing in Eurovision is completely different than a television show that takes place in a single country, right? If you want to relate this back to Eurovision anyway, think about any one-country national final, for which there has never been a custom to add languages: Melodifestivalen 2022, Ellinikós Telikós 2010, and Festival da Canção 2014, for example. Grk1011 (talk) 13:34, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Actually, there are several national finals that do include the languages of the songs, such as Benidorm Fest 2022, Vidbir 2022, Eurovision France, c'est vous qui décidez! 2021 and Selecția Națională 2022. I don't know why is there a lot of reluctance for adding the songs' languages. Several reasonable arguments have already been given by others on why they should be added such as standarization with other ESC-based articles and language representation, meanwhile the reasons against have just been based on its "irrelevance", supposed complication and, my favorite, "what does it matter?". If it didn't really matter, this discussion wouldn't have even started and users woudln't have added them in the first place. 2806:1000:8002:C690:5972:F45A:5237:7730 (talk) 00:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
Yeah yeah no, not at all. Language in the Eurovision Song Contest is a big thing, and the rules have gone back and forth. We don't have that here at all, and as Grk1011 said earlier, " Most will be English, some will have phrases in other languages, etc, but it's not a critical part of the entry." It is not a critical part of the entry, and the LAST thing we need in any of these articles is more complicated tables full of irrelevant information. If a song is called "Besame Mucho" the reader can assume it's in Spanish--but even if they cannot, what does it matter? If it's ever a matter discussed in secondary (not just mentioned) sources, we can cover that in the text one way or another. And if we're going to be that detailed--well, I hate to be a professionally trained linguist here, but "English" does not exist--"Englishes" do, and "Spanishes", etc. Look at the top of this page, which specifies "American English", which is already an abstraction, being "the set of varieties of the English language native to the United States" (my bold). Drmies (talk) 16:45, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
Just thinking out-loud here but if we had a blurb with acknowledgment of the other languages used this season simaler to the returning artist section on the ESC page. I understand that we don't want to overcomplicate the table and language as big of a factor like in Eurovision; but I do think there should be some sort of acknowledgment. DJddog5 (talk) 17:01, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

“be worth” should say “being worth” 199.48.94.113 (talk) 11:34, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done ―Jochem van Hees (talk) 11:38, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I find this source for all the remaining song titles highly dubious for a number of reasons. 
There is no back up information, you can not find any information about where they got their information from. 
For example, the name of Arizonas entry seems to be based on the location of a recent instagram posting of the artists.
I recommend to not use this website as a trustworthy source.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Florian100100 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 26 March 2022 (UTC) 

Where did these full results come from? The jury ones were obviously broadcast during the show but I can't find where you got these full results from. And why only qualifiers 3? Pretty sure those results aren't real but I don't want to remove them incase they are.
Technxcolour (talk) 19:41, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

The overall results were also shown on screen during the next show. As for why we only have such data for heat 3, it's because the production team makes small changes every week and they decided to show the final results that one time.  Andreyyshore 🆃︎ 🅲︎  05:17, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
On the fourth episode, after the public vote qualifiers were announced, the overall results were shown. You can find it at 6:27 mark  on the episode. So yes, these are real results. CeolAnGhra (talk) 09:07, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Someone made an elimination chart regarding the performances per week. Do we still need this?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.168.39.6 (talk) 07:53, 3 May 2022 (UTC) 

This review is transcluded from Talk:American Song Contest/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.