# Talk:Apolo Ohno

Apolo started at the auburn skating rink and moved to team Extream soon later.He won third at nationals one year on team Extream.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.116.176.216 (talk) 22:14, 3 February 2010 (UTC) 

Uh, do you have a reliable source for this info?  Thanks, oncamera(t) 23:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Did Apolo Ohno's father really name him after the words "Ap" and "Lo" and not just after the Greek God, Apollo? This seems hard to believe. 128.36.163.129 (talk) 15:46, 12 February 2010 (UTC)CPL

Yeah, that's what a lot of sources say.  Otherwise, I think it would be spelled the same way as Apollo.  oncamera(t) 00:41, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
This seems fanciful to say the least.  I did some Greek at school 40+ years ago and I don't recognize thse words.  I tried απ and λω in an online Greek dictionary in both Ancient and Modern Greek and got nothing except απ = from.  I think Dad was pulling someone's leg. Cross Reference (talk) 04:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

40+ years ago?  Ah, hmm, it's supposed to be "Apo" instead of just "Ap" as in ἀπό or ἀπο-, which is "away from".  And I think "Lo" is λώ, as in lo and behold.  Geez not everyone makes things up!  Haha, oncamera(t) 05:29, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

The link for cross-tracking points to the Rules section of Short_track_speed_skating is dead because there is no Rules section on that page; in fact there is no explanation of the term on that page. The term needs definition and explanation here, or a new link. Thanks. Tweet7 (talk) 02:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I never noticed it went missing.  Anyway, I found the Rules section and added them back to Short track speed skating.  Thanks for pointing that out! Cross-tracking (DQX): Deliberately cutting in front of a competitor who is attempting to pass.  oncamera(t) 04:44, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

"With three laps remaining and currently in second position, Ohno attempted make to pass on the leader Kim, who then drifted to the inside and as a result, Ohno raised his arms to signal he was blocked. " Enigmamsg 06:28, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Fixed! oncamera(t) 00:21, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Grammar error: "Capitalizing on Ohno's fame, Alaska Airlines were his".  Should be "was".

I am removing this paragraph that was added:
In an interview after the race, Ohno said he was initially hoping, that all three South Koreans would be disqualified. This comment provoked many Koreans including the winning Lee Jung-su, who said: "Ohno didn’t deserve to stand on the same medal podium."12
Because, the unsigned Korean Times article does not even quote Ohno, and actually misrepresents his post-race comments.  What Ohno said on the televised interview was, "I was expecting more disqualifications from the race. It was a crazy first race but it turned out well".3  So, the Korean Times article is not reliable.  Also, the Korean Times attributes the quote to Yonhap News, which doesn't even have the quote either.  Fails reliable source; further reading on this intentional misrepresenting of his post-race comments can be found here.  oncamera(t) 00:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

You have repeatedly removed new content in this article. Please read the content and the references before blindly deleting it. The new content that I have put in is not the same as the previous content. Do you understand?--Sir Edgar (talk) 03:28, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
The Reuters only sources his quote.  The rest is sourced from an unreliable source, the Korea Times article.  Also, the race should be written in detailed at the main article for it (Short track speed skating at the 2010 Winter Olympics – Men's 1500 metres).  I want this article to stay Good Article quality, so faulty sources should be best avoided.  oncamera(t) 03:32, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
As I have requested to you before, please state why you believe the Reuters article "only sources his quote". Also explain why The Korea Times, a major publication, is an unreliable source. What do you base your judgment on?-- Sir Edgar
Please sign your comments; I will not do that for you. The Reuters article says nothing about this Ohno's comments after the 1500 m final caused a stir in the South Korean media which called him an "ungentlemanly sportsman" and criticized what they called his excessive pushing and touching of his competitors, including eventual winner Lee, during the race and is only the source for his quote.  The Korean Times article is discussed in the first paragraph of this discussion.  There's no reason for that much details on Ohno's page, since he was NOT disqualified and did not cause the crash of the two Korean skaters.  Lee Ho-Suk was disqualified for causing that crash.  oncamera(t) 03:46, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Please read carefully. Nobody said the Reuters article said anything about Ohno being an "ungentlemanly sportsman" and about his excessive pushing. The Korea Times article says that. It is also stated in this Chosun Times article (the exact same quotes, but in Korean):
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/02/14/2010021400182.html
I hope you don't discriminate against these articles because they are Korean. As you may know, Wikipedia allows non-English sources for English language articles. If you can't read the Korean language, then you can use a translator like Babelfish:
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/
Are you saying that Lee didn't make those comments? Can you prove that? Lee specifically said that Ohno did not deserve to stand on the podium and that Ohno was using his arms too aggressively. Have you seen the footage? It's appalling, in my opinion, and definitely not fairplay. This is especially true in consideration of Ohno's previous complaints about other skaters' actions during races.--Sir Edgar (talk) 03:57, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

By the way, I want to also comment that I am relying on major news media sources and you are referring to a blog...--Sir Edgar (talk) 04:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I watched the race when it happened, and Ohno is the one with the right to complain. He was bumped by one of the Koreans, knocking him off his stride and costing him a chance at gold. What the Koreans did during that race was not fairplay. Enigmamsg 05:23, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I didn't use the blog to source anything on the article.  I know what a reliable source is.
As I said, the Reuters article only sources his quote so why do you ask me to explain that?  And to be honest, it would be best to stay neutral and not include biased news articles as sources.  What the Koreans or Ohno said really isn't important AND I don't want to create a POV here.  All this information does is make it seem like Korea hates Ohno no matter what happens and I don't want that either.  It can be said the Korean skaters were rough too, as I have seen the race replayed.  This is Short Track and that's how the races usually are. Anyway, it's giving undue weight to their opinions to write about this.  Perhaps in Anti-American sentiment in Korea this can be written about, but not here.  I hope you re-think about what this sort of information is pushing and reconsider how the information is presented.  Or, as I suggested, include this information over at Short track speed skating at the 2010 Winter Olympics – Men's 1500 metres.  oncamera(t) 04:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
You keep on deleting content without justification. This is not your article. It is free for anyone to edit. I have provided reliable sources. In fact, I have found the same quotes in an NBC article here:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/news-features/news/newsid=423575.html

What you are doing is censorship. I merely want to provide a balanced view of Ohno that is not seen in the U.S. media. As an American living in Seoul who also speaks fluent Korean, I can tell you that Korea does not hate Ohno "no matter what happens". It's Ohno's actions that go completely unnoticed by the referees and U.S. media that bothers them. Look at the footage. Ohno keeps pushing and leaning on Lee and other skaters. The content that I have provided is not pushing anything. Just the facts: What Ohno said after the race and what Lee said after the race.--Sir Edgar (talk) 04:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Then we'll leave it with just the facts, no opinions.  How about something like this? Ohno's comments after the 1500 m final caused a controversy in the South Korean media.*NBC source* Ohno said, "At the end of the race, I was hoping for another disqualification kind of like what happened in Salt Lake City".*Reuters Source* Gold medalist Lee Jung-Su stated Ohno "did not deserve to stand on the podium" for his rough play during the semifinals and finals.*NBC source*
Also, I like the NBC source more than the other Korean one (it's English; you can use both if you want though), I'd be happy with it, and using the direct quotes from it too.  But, I don't think this needs to be in its own header because there are still more races to be raced!  Maybe after the Olympics we can really see how this is all played out.  Tell me what you think so we can work this out to be the least POV.  oncamera(t) 04:42, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your post. I hope by seeing other media sources, you can perhaps see another perspective. You and I live in different parts of the world. It's good to share information for a more balanced perspective. Anyhow, I think this issue deserves its own header because Ohno has had so much controversy throughout his career. Is he a good skater? Absolutely. But I'm not sure he would have had as much success if he relied on his skating skill alone. I am going to leave both Ohno's and Lee's comments intact. The article will constantly change throughout the competition and after. Whether we are here or not. That's Wikipedia.--Sir Edgar (talk) 04:55, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
By the way, the 1500m race issue is not about anti-Americanism. It's about what Ohno said and what Lee said after the race.--Sir Edgar (talk) 04:57, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

But, you don't understand what I mean by the header issue; when he races in the other races, that section then be chronologically out of order because having headers for every race during the 2010 Olympics would be unnecessary and make the Table of Contents too long and annoying.  Also, please can you put the exact quotes in for this portion?  Gold medalist Lee Jung-Su accused Ohno of being unqualified to stand on the awards podium for his rough play that was reportedly often done in a subtle manner and therefore went unnoticed in the eyes of the referees and the U.S. media.  I would like readers to see how he exactly said it and not a paraphrase by news articles.  And if you are translating his quotes from Korean you'll have to include the original Korean in a footnote so readers can see what was said in Korean.  Please make those edits and I don't think we need to add our opinions of skaters here because this is not a forum for that sort of discussion, oncamera(t) 05:06, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Hopefully, there will only be one controversy for Ohno during these Games. The point is there was controversy again. Anyhow, the subsection's first sentence states that this applies to the 1500m race. The order does not matter, in my opinion. As for Lee's quote, there is no English version that I know of because it was not reported in the U.S. media. That's the whole point of what I am saying. It just wasn't reported. That's why the article says "went unnoticed in... the U.S. media." Understood about your comment that we do not need to talk about our opinion of skaters..."--Sir Edgar (talk) 05:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
You're using the Korean source for one quote; he doesn't say this anywhere in Korean news articles?  I don't want to rely on Google's translator, so it's best to use your knowledge of Korean to find the actual source for those messages.  Otherwise, Lee Jung-Su might be intentionally misrepresented in English sources, you know?  It can go both ways.  Still, you'll need the footnote of the original Korean quotes added, kinda like what was done here.  oncamera(t) 05:19, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I went ahead and combined the controversy back into the paragraph for the 1500m race because even the other 2002 controversy doesn't have its own header.  This article should remain consistent and chronological organized to provide the reader with easy reading.  I also clarified why the SK mediia was upset and used the quotes from the NBC source to explain further why Lee Jung-su was angry.  Also formatted the Original Text footnote, so thank you for providing that.  I feel this new version best shows what happened n a neuutral and fair manner, using the sources as best possible.  oncamera(t) 14:44, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Your logic regarding header consistency is reasonable. I do not disagree with this version for now.--Sir Edgar (talk) 00:20, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

After a disqualification in the 500 m race,[24] he was leading the skaters in the 1000 m race; during a turn around the final corner, Ahn Hyun Soo fell while attempting to pass Ohno and Li Jiajun on the inside, causing Ohno, Li, and Mathieu Turcotte to crash into the barriers. 
This para needs to be corrected. Watch the slow motion. Here is how it goes.
As the skater approach the final turn, Li Jiajun tries to pass Ohno on the outside. Ohno tries to block Li out with an elevated arm. Ahn sees the opportunity to pass inside while Ohno is preoccupied with Li. Li spirals off course but Ohno is also unbalanced as him and Ahn make the final turn. Ohno is hopelessly trying to stay balanced and not deviate from the inside lane where Ahn is almost certain to pass him. Ohno is going down already and while doing so, his wrist clips Ahn's ankle/shin Ahn falls and takes Turcotte behind him.
The biggest winner here is Bradbury obviously. 2nd biggest winner is Ohno. It seemed like Ohno was hard done by as it looked like Ahn had taken the whole field out. Ohno never ever complained about Ahn. He knew he was the cause of it all and knowing Ohno's antics he would have cried foul if he felt 0.1% hard done by. Ohno should have been DQ'd too.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinu4ever (talk • contribs) 09:03, 19 February 2010 (UTC) 

See WP:Original Research.  Anyway, the sentence is neutral and factual as it is.  No need to change it.  oncamera(t) 00:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
how can you say the sentence is neutral? what's black is black and what's white is white. Ahn doesn't cause Li to fall. Li slings off the track as they go into the turn. Ohno's left arm causes Ahn to fall. 
my source is purely from the analysis of video clips. I'm sure you'll have access to this. Bradbury saying "heading into the final turn, i see the Chinese guy fall. I set up my final turn and in the corner of my eyes i see the other three tuggle...." (this is a primary source by the way) [[1]]
If you can't get a simple observation right i don't know hom much merit is in your article.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinu4ever (talk • contribs) 23:06, 20 February 2010 (UTC) 
Uh, this is not true at all.  Ahn's pass directly cause the collision.  I don't know what video you are watching but what you're saying is incorrect.  I will grant you this:  Li's fall is questionable but Ahn 100% caused Turcotte and Ohno to fall.  Even if his arm caused Ahn to fall, it's still Ahn's fault as he still tried to pass.  Ohno was already leaning out of the turn so if he would've "moved his arm to let Ahn pass", he would've fallen; Ohno clearly had the right of way...because he was already in front of Ahn for the entire last lap!--70.246.130.36 (talk) 04:49, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Ok. Let's take back all subjective arguments from both sides as you seem to a "let's talk based on facts" type of person, ie Ohno's fault or Ahn's fault - we can't conclude as we don't have conclusive evidence. However, let's go back to the fact books. Ahn wasn't disqualified from the race (was placed 4th with a valid time). Li was and hence, based on this, Li was at fault and he caused the pile up. So your argument "Ahn 100% caused Turcotte and Ohno to fall" is completely and utterly false. I don't know where you got that from. So i insist that the sentence be corrected simply to..
After a disqualification in the 500 m race,[24] he was leading the skaters in the 1000 m race; during a turn around the final corner, Li fell while attempting to pass Ohno on the outside, causing Ohno, Ahn, and Mathieu Turcotte to crash into the barriers. 
Hope that does it...and since you seem to be updating this article as the events in Vancouver unfold why not add another sentence somewhere saying "Ohno is not good enough to beat the Koreans for a gold medal"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.169.121 (talk) 07:17, 21 February 2010 (UTC) 

what is the name of the hairpiece on ohnos chin?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.82.232.136 (talk) 06:18, 20 February 2010 (UTC) 
It is called a soul patch.  Women do not like it (see an article called 10 things to something ruin a date and make women run away - title name not exact).  Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 16:36, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Soul patch. Some women do not like it, but I don't see how that's worthy of mention. Enigmamsg 09:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The two intro paragraphs need to be updated to the below...
Apolo Anton Ohno (pronounced /əˈpɒloʊ ˈæntɒn ˈoʊnoʊ/; born May 22, 1982) is an American short track speed skating competitor and a seven-time medalist (two gold, two silver, three bronze) in the Winter Olympics.
Ohno has won seven Olympic medals over his career and is one of only four Americans who have won three medals in a single Winter Olympic games.[3] He surpassed Bonnie Blair for most career medals at the Winter Games by an American in the 2010 Vancouver Olympics.[4] He has been the reigning United States’ champion since 2001 and has won the men's national title a total of 12 times.[4] In December 1999, he became the youngest skater to win a World Cup event title, and became the first American to win a World Cup overall title in 2001.[4][5] In 2008, Ohno won his first overall World Championship title.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hcurtis (talk • contribs) 04:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC) 

I updated it but without the Bonnie Blair mentioning.  Doesn't he stand alone now? oncamera(t) 04:28, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The comment Lee Jung-su made is alleged.  If it's going to be included it needs to be the direct quote from said Korean media outlet.  Since it isn't, it's just heresay.--70.246.130.36 (talk) 04:38, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying.  Deleting his comments make the "controversy" less worthy of even being mentioned (I would love to delete the whole thing).  Everyone seems to get everyone's words wrong.  Ohno said at the medal ceremony that Lee congratulated him, so I can see how it's confusing to know if Lee actually said these things. oncamera(t) 04:53, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Oncamera; the "controversy" should be deleted.  Its notability is debatable, and I suspect that when the article goes up for FAC again, its reviewers will recommend that it be removed.  Evan Lysacek's "controversy" isn't even on his BLP (another GA, although this article is much better), and it has more bearing on their sport than this one.  (To be fair, though, Evgeny Pleshenko's BLP mentions it, but the source it uses is more reliable than the sources about this controversy.)  My two cents, folks. --Christine (talk) 15:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The following sentence needs editing:
When the South Korean team scored a goal against the U.S. team, many spectators made a move imitating the (some felt to be exaggerated) move Ohno had made during the speed skating event to indicate the other athlete had drifted into his lane.
It was not the spectators but rather the Korean players on the field who celebrated after scoring their equalizer against the US by mocking Ohno.
Watch the match review on Youtube starting from 3:40 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDd-UBL4Njo
The player imitating Kim is Ahn Jung Hwan and Ohno Lee Chun Soo. The two are very famous footballers.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stjdot (talk • contribs) 01:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC) 

I changed it to: When the South Korean team scored a goal against the U.S. team, Korean players Ahn Jung-Hwan and Lee Chun-Soo made an exaggerated move imitating the move Ohno had made during the speed skating event to indicate the other athlete had drifted into his lane.  I hope that clarifies it!  oncamera(t) 02:05, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

The current text states:

Ahn Hyun Soo fell while attempting to pass Ohno and Li Jiajun on the inside, causing Ohno, Li, and Mathieu Turcotte to crash into the barriers.
The basis of this is apparently this single line from the AP report. [2]

Ahn went down and took out Ohno and Turcotte.
The same article was then reprinted by CNNSi, NYTimes, etc. The AP article and the current Wikipedia text are putting the blame for the pile-up squarely on Ahn. However, other media sources give other, conflicting stories. 
The Seattle Times, February 18, 2006 says [3]:

China's Li Jiajun caught his skate on Ohno's while trying to pass and spun out. That sent Ohno sliding into Ahn, and both went down, wiping out Mathieu Turcotte of Canada.
St. Petersburg Times, February 17, 2002 says [4]:

Ohno seemed to be skating well when China's Jiajun Li skated in close from the right. Ohno's right arm shot out, knocking Li off stride. Li fell forward then into the back of Ohno's legs. The two stumbled, and Korea's Ahn Hyun-soo, who had skated into the infield, plowed into them about 15 yards from the finish. The crash was so significant that Australia's Steven Bradbury, skating far behind in fifth place, won the gold by staying upright.
Since the media sources cannot agree on or are unclear about how exactly the crash occurred, I think the text should be changed to a completely neutral description. How about something like...

Ohno, Ahn, Li, and Turcotte all fell in a series of crashes, and Australia's Steven Bradbury won the gold.
Boomer69j (talk) 05:13, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Completely Agree, although i believe Seattle Times story.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.169.121 (talk) 11:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC) 

Here are a few more sources.
AP via Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Feb 18, 2006 [5]. Note that the first article I mentioned above, which says Ahn caused the crash, is also an AP article. Hence, we now have two articles from the same press agency contradicting each other.
Back then, Li caught his skate on Ohno's while trying to pass and spun out. That sent Ohno sliding into Ahn, and both went down, wiping out Mathieu Turcotte of Canada.
Another AP article, by Beth Harris, published in Concord Monitor, Feb 11, 2006 [6], Deseret News, Feb 12, 2006 [7]
China's Li Jiajun caught his skate on Ohno's while trying to pass and spun out. That sent Ohno sliding into Ahn, and both went down, wiping out Mathieu Turcotte of Canada.
HeraldNet, Dec 27, 2009 [8]:
China’s Li Jijuan, trying to pass Ohno on the outside, grabbed the American’s arm for a boost. But the two also tangled skates and went down. Li skittered into the boards. Ohno went flying in the other direction, where he undercut Korea’s Anh Hyun-soo, who was making his move on the inside. The two of them then wiped out Canada’s Mathieu Turcotte, the last man standing in the pack.
Sportales, Jan 1, 2010 sportales.com/sports/more-unforgettable-winter-olympic-stories/
Ohno was leading the pack in the 1,000 meter race with just about 20 meters from the finish line, when Li tried to overtake him when the two collided.  Ohno then brought down Ahn and Turcotte as he sprawled across the ice, causing a massive wipeout.
Boomer69j (talk)
Thanks for the thorough research. To comply with WP:Neutral point of view, I have changed the text like you mentioned, to
during a turn around the final corner, Ohno, Ahn Hyun Soo, Li Jiajun, and Mathieu Turcotte all fell in a series of collisions.
Wikiwooj (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 17:54, 22 February 2010 (UTC).
Looks good, thanks for adding sources too. oncamera(t) 00:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

How can an entry for a sportsman in a marginal discipline like speed skating be this long? There's barely enough justification for a stub, let alone this epic tale of utter irrelevance. Ninety (90) footnotes. This is insane.
For example: 'In Salt Lake City, Utah, Ohno emerged as a popular athlete among American fans for reportedly charming them with his cheerful attitude and laid-back style.[23]' How can that possibly be of any interest? Wikipedia urgently needs a word limit, like a comment box, where only so many characters are available and entries automatically cut off when the limit is reached.Sartoresartus (talk) 02:01, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Why did you even bother to come to his page or read the article if you don't want to know anything about him?  Interesting, because if you read his article, you should have realized the relevance. Cheers, oncamera(t) 02:36, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
I also realized the limits of its relevance.Sartoresartus (talk) 04:10, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

For the 500m final for the 2010 winter olympics, it currently says:
However, he was disqualified after impeding Francois-Louis Tremblay of Canada around the final turn.

Is that really the most objective way to cover this? The article used for the reference refers to him actually causing Tremblay to fall. This little sports illustrated article does the same. They actually phrased it:
On the final lap, he tried to cut inside Canada's Francois-Louis Tremblay for a clean pass. Instead, he made contact with Tremblay, taking him out of the race.

Wouldn't it make more sense to cover it as the references do? Or, at the very least, to acknowledge that he was faulted for causing a fall, rather than claiming that he 'impeded' another skater? (I've yet to hear any proper reference refer to it as 'impeding')
It also seems like it would be better to include his comments on the decision, including, "You know, it's the head Canadian referee out there and there were two Canadians in the race.". It just seems that, if him crossing the line second is worth mentioning, and his disqualification is worth mentioning, then so are his comments on the matter? 72.88.100.169 (talk) 03:35, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

His comments were said in the heat of the moment and wouldn't really add much to the paragraph.  Impeding is "Impeding (DQI): Pushing, blocking, or otherwise causing an impediment for another skater" and that's what he was disqualified for; pushing the other skater.  I will link that word impeding to the rules section of Short Track Speed Skating.  oncamera(t) 03:52, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Oh, and I was going to say that describing the race with a little more detail might be useful just without that quote as it might be POV-pushing.  Mentioning how he started from the third lane position, trailed in fourth for most of the race, and how he impeded in more details?  The article is un-protected now, so if anyone feels like it, go ahead.  oncamera(t) 04:01, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Currently the article says "He is the most decorated American Winter Olympic athlete of all time".
Is that true?
Nobody from Canada or any of the other subcontinents of america with more medals?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.84.107 (talk) 05:54, 3 March 2010 (UTC) 

Yes, this is true.  He has won eight thus far, more than any other Winter Olympian. --Christine (talk) 06:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure why this argument over who is really defined under the term "American" randomly shows up on articles (I've seen this on Andy Roddick too).  Generally speaking, it's someone from the United States.  Of course it could be used for anyone from the two continents, but that's rarely the usage.  Common usage prevails.  Take this discussion over to here or someplace more relevant. oncamera(t) 00:20, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Hey, do we want to mention anywhere in here that he ran the 2011 NYC Marathon?  I have a source: that Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:48, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

When I view this article in the article view, only the infobox to the right appears. None of the text or references show up, as though they've been deleted. When I view the article on Mozilla Firefox, everything appears just fine. However, in Internet Explorer 8, it doesn't. I can view the text of the article by clicking the Edit button, but when I switch to the regular view it disappears. I just tried deleting one letter, then adding it, and saving to see if it would change things, but no. All that shows up is the infobox with his picture, and at the top of the article is the notice about the last edit date and the text being available under cc-sa, which normally is found at the bottom of the web page. I've tried switching out of compatibility view in Internet Explorer 8, but it switches back automatically after a second. I don't know what the problem is. In addition, when I visit other articles in Internet Explorer, it doesn't switch to compatibility view, so I think it must be something about Apolo Ohno's article.

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There has been a recent edit war regarding the "Business controversy" section. This details a lawsuit filed against Ohno and some business partners that has not yet been litigated. In the spirit of neutrality, I support the suppression of this information until either a) the litigation has occurred and Ohno is found culpable; or b) the ongoing litigation has some serious long-term effect on Ohno's life or career. Since the suit was filed only recently, it is still too soon to claim that (b) is true, and (a) is patently not yet true. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:18, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

@Oncamera: @SwissOlympian: @Skywatcher68: @VeritasVinco: pinging editors involved in the dispute. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:20, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
The details of the lawsuit could be shortened, but not completely removed because it's relevant to the business section on this page that is part of the article already. Also, it should be noted the editor SwissOlympian is a single purpose account that only edits this article to removed "controversial" information.  oncamera  (talk page) 21:24, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
@Oncamera: It may or may not be relevant to the business section; the matter does not yet appear to have affected Ohno's business operations in any way and may turn out to be just a nuisance suit. I would argue that for neutrality (especially where biographies of living persons are involved), it would be better to omit the material entirely until the matter is litigated. I cannot speak for SwissOlympian's motives, only for my own reasoning for removing the material. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:57, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


### Protected edit request on 7 September 2021
I'd like to request an edit of the ff:
Remove this line under the 'Business' section:
"Business lawsuit
In Kang et al v. Hybrid Trade Limited et al, Apolo Ohno, Rod Jao, Eugenio Pugliese, Henry Liu, as well as three companies they allegedly founded, Hybrid Trade Limited, Allysian Sciences, and Asia Digital Exchange, are named in a complaint filed in California on August 13, 2021. The plaintiffs allege that Ohno and the other defendants misappropriated $50 million USD in digital tokens that was raised. The claim against Ohno and the defendants includes securities fraud, negligent misrepresentation, breach of contract, promissory fraud, unjust enrichment, fraudulent conveyance, and the sale of unregistered securities. The documents submitted allege that in the first six months of 2018 the defendants offered and sold digital tokens and raised approximately $50 million USD from a variety of investors around the world including those in the United States. As the token raise, or "ICO", was never registered with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission, it violated American securities laws."
I have seen discussions about this on the talk page and edit history as well. I don't see the need to include this allegation as this can be a false claim only or not 100% factual. This can contribute to the defamation of the subject. Amelia0105 (talk) 06:11, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

The paragraph is referenced so I will not remove it unless there is some agreement on this page. You will need to work with other editors to discuss whether it should be shortened or removed. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:23, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
@Amelia0105 and MSGJ: I agree with Amelia on this matter. (See my arguments in the preceding section.) Until this matter is litigated, it may be nothing more than a nuisance suit. The fact that the item is referenced owes to the sensational nature of the matter; newspapers are sensationalists, but Wikipedia should not be. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:57, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Okay I have tentatively removed this section pending further discussion here, and/or the result of the lawsuit. Thanks for your input — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:17, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
I do not think this is necessary to remove, looking at the lawsuit, it does seem very serious. Regardless of the result, Apolo was a cofounder of the company in question HybridBlock, which raised $50 million and disappeared. The sheer amount of money involved is worth a mention. - Editor  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.2.147.191 (talk) 23:21, 17 December 2021 (UTC)  I do not think this is a nuisance suit, please have a look at the lawsuit before removing it. By hiding this lawsuit, it seems like we are trying to hide negative news. Please keep this wikipedia neutral. Thanks (HybridBlock · talk)
Hi @HybridBlock, allow me to raise a few comments on why this lawsuit should be removed on Apolo's Wiki page:
Based on the Wikipedia rule:
"Exercise extreme caution in using primary sources. Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person."
And based on the Apolo article:
"As the token raise, or "ICO", was never registered with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission, it violated American securities laws."
That sentence from the wiki can be considered an assertion based on court records/public documents.
Also, based on another Wikipedia rule:
"In the case of public figures, there will be a multitude of reliable published sources, and BLPs should simply document what these sources say. If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article—even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out."
However, if you check the Wikipedia article, the MaltaToday article is the only one working. The second source, which is the PacerMonitor, is not available. So, therefore, it violated the "multiple reliable third-party sources". Amelia0105 (talk) 11:18, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
I am sorry but have you seen the Coindesk article? Theres at least 3 reliable sources pointing to the lawsuit, one of them in chinese, please do a google search before replying". Unsigned) 10:53, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia:Notability (cryptocurrencies), There is also strong consensus that cryptocurrency-focused sources (such as Coindesk or Bitcoin Magazine) should generally not be used on Wikipedia articles.  oncamera  (talk page) 03:05, 21 December 2021 (UTC)