# Talk:Ach Gott, wie manches Herzeleid, BWV 3

There is also the cantata BWV 58 with the same title. --mst 08:48, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I know. I haven't had the time to do any work on this in months, but disambiguating the duplicate incipits is on my list. Hopefully, I'll be able to get back to work on it by mid-February. Microtonal...(Put your head on my shoulder) 01:38, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I have gone through the twenty-some pages currently existing on Wiki for the Church cantatas, after editing a Bach Cantata Pilgrimage section, and thought I'd make an effort to standardize their presentation inasmuch as possible. 

Consequently, I've created a few sections: a general intro that contains the German title, alongside a literal translation to English, BWV number, and type of cantata (sacred vs. secular).
This section also contains the prescribed readings and the authorship of the texts, when known, as well as the authorship of the chorale theme.
The articles are completed with a scoring and structure section, followed by the complete German text, in three columns, a list of complete recordings (as I can find online, obviously. I'm sure there are many more recordings).
I plan on applying this template to all articles (existing or to be created) on the cantatas. Any advice/recommendation would be greatly appreciated and surely taken into account.
I've also created the page for BV 58 and disambiguated for the title.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Campelli (talk • contribs) 22:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC) 

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ach Gott, wie manches Herzeleid, BWV 3/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Yash! (talk · contribs) 00:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
I will be posting soon. Thanks, Yash! 00:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)


### Lead
Shouldn't "heartache" be "Heartache", if "Herzeleid" has the 'H' capitalized?
No. Firstly, German has different capitalization rules (no specials for titles, nowns always capital. Secondly: the English is no title, just a translation, one of several possible. --GA
"cantata cycle of chorale cantatas" - try not to repeat the word "cantata".
Find a way please, - I don't ;) --GA
How about "as part of cycle of chorale cantatas"? When we state "cycle of chorale cantatas", it implies that the "cycle" is referred to as "cantata cycle" and we won't have to repeat "cantata". Yash! 05:21, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
That doesn't express (what the uninitiated should know) that he wrote several cantata cycles (we count three, his obituary even mentions five) of which the second is of all chorale cantatas. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:33, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Is something wrong with my phone, PC and laptop or are you seeing the "Scoring and structure" in the lead as well as in the prose too?
Sorry, forgot to delete after copying it there to write the summary ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 12 January 2016 (UTC)


### History and words
Do mention "Ach Gott, wie manches Herzeleid" in: "The cantata is a chorale cantata based on the hymn in 18 stanzas attributed to Martin Moller (1587)."
done --GA
"In movement 2, stanza 2 is expanded by paraphrases of stanzas 3–5. Movement 3 is a paraphrase of stanza 6. Movement 4 incorporates ideas from stanzas 7–14. Movement 5 relies on stanzas 15 and 16." - these are four tiny sentences and should be merged. They can easily be made into two sentences by using "while" or "and" or something similar.
Would you help, please, not easy for me? I thought that with all these confusing numbers, the more similar the construction the easier to understand. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
"In movement 2, stanza 2 is expanded by paraphrases of stanzas 3–5, while movement 3 is a paraphrase of stanza 6. Movement 4 incorporates ideas from stanzas 7–14 and movement 5 relies on stanzas 15 and 16." - it is optional though. I suggested it cause small sentences disturb the flow and are avoided as much as possible. Yash! 05:21, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Taken, but made it one sentence, - all movements are on one level, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:33, 14 January 2016 (UTC)


### Scoring and structure
"Unusual", how, or according to whom, or as compared to what? Better to not use words such as "unusual" without reasonable explanation since they appear subjective.
It's explained after the ":", - normally a recitative is sung by one voice, but here with chorus and by four different voices: highly unusual by any standard. I looked at most Bach cantatas and found nothing similar. --GA
I added a ref to Mincham who calls it an "experiment". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:58, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
"The last aria is a duet" - is it possible to have a little more to this? Perhaps something about the first aria or anything you would like?
Don't know what you mean, sorry. For modern understanding, an aria is always sung by one person. For Bach, it could be "aired" by more than one. --GA
Something urgent came up. I will complete the review later tonight. Thanks, Yash! 13:12, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Fine. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:52, 12 January 2016 (UTC)


### Music
"in "bright E major", the voices are, as the Bach scholar Christoph Wolff writes, embedded in a "dense quartet texture"." -> "in "bright E major", as the Bach scholar Christoph Wolff writes, the voices are embedded in a "dense quartet texture"."
taken --GA
"providing a bright colour" -> any other term than "bright colour"?
I used a quote now. --GA
I don't see any other issues with the article. Great work Gerda :) Yash! 05:21, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Passed.... Yash! 06:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC)