# Talk:A-Yo (Lady Gaga song)

Message to IndianBio:  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.65.173.231 (talk) 10:01, 27 February 2018 (UTC) 
On Feb 26, you said, "A-Yo was not a single, canceled in lieu of Million Reasons". You then revert the information to original stance as 'a promotional single', and edit the release date to 'October 16, 2016'. What's more, you even tagged me as disruptive editor.
You are actually editing the article disruptively! On recording label's website it clearly shows A-Yo was officially released as one of the singles from Joanne on October 18, 2016. http://www.umusic.ca/2016/10/18/lady-gaga-new-song-a-yo/ It is not the PROMOTIONAL one!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.65.173.231 (talk) 09:59, 27 February 2018 (UTC) 

IP user, first of all if you disrupt the article once more, I will report you to WP:ANI. There are third party sources that clearly state "Million Reasons" as the second single and not "A-Yo". The source you gave above is from a primary attribution, Universal Music, which does not affirm that "A-Yo" was the third single, nor does it confirm that it will be one. So learn what constitutes reliable sources first and then edit articles. The only place talking about "A-Yo" as single is Billboard and that was before "Million Reasons" was made the official single. Furthermore, "A-Yo" has no commercial release date, something that is essential for its purchase as a single. —IB [ Poke ] 10:49, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Reply to IndianBio: Your words are paradoxical and show you are lack of knowledge. I'll conduct a point-by-point rebuttal of what you said.
1. You firstly added the notes, "song not single" and "A-Yo was not a single, canceled in lieu of Million Reasons". Then why you reverted the type to original stance as a promotional single?
->Isn't that a kind of disruptive editing? Be sure to do your research ahead of time.
2. You said, "There are third party sources that clearly state "Million Reasons" as the second single and not "A-Yo"." And You edited the words to "..as the record's second promotional single".
->Followed by "Million Reasons", A-Yo was officially previously released as stated on Universal Music's website. So it would the third single undoubtedly though there was no places where A-Yo was clearly affirmed as the third single. Also can you give any fresh ammunition to show it is the 2nd promotional single? And what is the name for the 1st promo one? It seems you cannot. :)
3. You said, "nor does it confirm that it will be one".
->In the article published on Universal Music's website, it writes "The excitement builds as Lady Gaga releases her newest track “A-YO” off her upcoming album Joanne." A-Yo not only had it own artwork but also was released ahead of the studio album. So it is the single with no doubt.
4. You said, "Furthermore, "A-Yo" has no commercial release date, something that is essential for its purchase as a single."
->Lady Gaga did announce that "Pre-order #JOANNE and you'll get #AYO tomorrow at 9am PST! The next sneak peek into the world of Joanne" in this tweet. https://twitter.com/ladygaga/status/788120893738201088 So there's no commercial release date? Totally wrong!
You marked me as a disruptive editor, but can you explain the above things? The words "So learn what constitutes reliable sources first and then edit articles." need to be given back to ya.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.65.173.231 (talk) 12:20, 27 February 2018 (UTC) 

Gladly IP user. Firstly promotional single is not a single. Secondly and thirdly, the sources you give do not state "A-Yo" as being promoted as a single. Gaga's tweet here essentially confirms that only album pre-order was what made "A-Yo" available, not an independent commercial release or promotion to radio. That also includes the Universal Music Canada link, which no where calls "A-Yo" as a single. Premiering a new track from an upcoming album is not a big deal nowadays, every artist does it. That does not make it an official single. "John Wayne" has a music video, something much more important in terms of promotion than a stupid cover art. That does not make it a single, neither does this one. Remember, what Gaga or her record company says do not constitute as reliable sources so refrain from citing them in discussions as I won't respond. —IB [ Poke ] 12:26, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
"A-Yo" peaked on Billboard's Hot 100 (the main US singles chart) at #66 on 11/12/16, the Canadian Hot 100 at #55 on 11/12/16, the OCC (the main UK single chart) at #66 on 11/3/16, etc. (these are distinct from digital song sales charts).  Its appearance on singles charts seems to make it a de facto single, regardless if Interscope chose to push "Million Reasons" instead of "A-Yo". How could a song appear on the singles charts if it had only been released as a promo to one internet radio station?—Ojorojo (talk) 15:09, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Ojorojo you clearly have no idea how promotional singles works. They are available as instant grad download from album and can chart on these singles chart as per rules set by these governing bodies. Does not make them singles de facto. It was not released commercially for purchase independently, not promoted to radio stations (Top 40/Hot AC/Rhythmic etc), neither was utilized in the music video medium. We have enough precedence here itself. —IB [ Poke ] 16:28, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Assuming this is not another idiosyncratic interpretation, if a promo single can show up on the same main singles charts as commercially released singles, then the Hot 100, etc., is no real measure of a release's success.  Without a sales component, charts like the Hot 100 may just reflect a short promo blitz and should not be used to show a song's importance, notability, etc. (Does it actually have to be released or just leaked to one outlet?)  Billboard's website includes "Generally speaking, our Hot 100 formula targets a ratio of sales (35-45%), airplay (30-40%) and streaming (20-30%)." As an example, it gives "a song driven largely by airplay? Maroon 5's "Love Somebody," at No. 26 after peaking at No. 10, shows 67% of its points thanks to radio, with 19% from sales and 13% from streaming."  Although not RS, the lead sentence of Billboard Hot 100 includes: "The Billboard Hot 100 is the music industry standard record chart in the United States for singles, published weekly by Billboard magazine. Chart rankings are based on sales (physical and digital), radio play, and online streaming" (emphasis added).  —Ojorojo (talk) 17:48, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
What is your point? We are not discussing the reliability of the Hot 100 or any other record chart here? *scratches head* If you mean that Billboard and all only allow singles to chart on their record entries, then you are wrong. That's a semantics and kindly don't go by what they have said. Everytime an album drops or is released, all of its individual songs can appear on the Hot 100, provided they have amassed enough sales or streams or if there are minimal airplay to the mix. That does not make all of those songs as singles. Its Billboard's, Official Charts Company, ARIA, RMNZ, IRMA etc, their rules. Third party sources anyways call the Hot 100 as the industry-standard chart that tracks the country's most popular songs. You wanna know more then please read this article also. —IB [ Poke ] 02:09, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
"A-Yo" peaked at #19 on 11/12/2016 on Billboard's Digital Song Sales chart.[1] What is the source for your claim that "It was not released commercially for purchase independently"? If its sales were only from album sales, why aren't the other songs from the album also listed in the same chart? (BB's Digital Songs chart appears to measure sales only, independent of airplay.)  Are your other claims are also unsupported, original research? —Ojorojo (talk) 15:40, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
*Facepalm* dude do you understand the fact that only "A-Yo" was available as part of the album? That is not an independent purchase. Sales like that are deducted from the total due to iTunes complete my album program. I'm done explaining you since you do not seem to be least bit knowledgeable as to how charts work in modern day anymore. —IB [ Poke ] 17:07, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
Sounds like more OR: "only 'A-Yo' was available as part of the album".  So the rest of the album songs were available independent of the album?  Again, where are the reliable sources? —Ojorojo (talk) 18:01, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
Have explained N number of times how promotional singles and songs can chart on main record charts and dont need to be singles for it. If you cant read thats not my problem. Ojorojo I request you to get yourself acquainted as to how album releases work. A very good case here is "Joanne", which was again available as part of the album's release, but never listed as a single until it was promoted to Italian radio and a piano version also released as such. You seem to be going on a case of WP:IDHT. —IB [ Poke ] 03:29, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Your explanations are contradictory and reliance on histrionics isn't working: Why can't you cite a reliable source?  As long as you attempt to sidestep/misdirect the issue, there is nothing left to discuss.—Ojorojo (talk) 16:21, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
You are the one attempting to misdirect the issue bringing in the reliability of Billboard charts which is frankly laughable. They are the bible, so get over it. —IB [ Poke ] 16:31, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Hey IB, Did you ever see what I added exactly on "A-Yo"? Why do you just revert my last contribution indiscriminately?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 东北老铁 (talk • contribs) 12:13, 5 March 2018 (UTC) 

@东北老铁: are you being naive now? The difference here clearly shows you are going on using {{hlist}} templates which are redundant as per {{Infobox song}} and clearly indicated here. Furthermore you are adding recorded parameter as 2016 when the article clearly does not say the recording date or year anywhere failing WP:OR. —IB [ Poke ] 14:38, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
Hi @IndianBio:, plz do watch your words. I'm fresh in Wikipedia, but I think you should take a look at WP:BITE. Secondly it clearly shows it was you who first added the recorded parameter as 2016 in this difference. Where was your supporting source at that time then? Also, I added the format as both digital download and streaming. This promotional single was premiered on Beats 1 and released as a promotional digital download on iTunes Store ahead of the album release as per sources. So may I ask what's wrong with this then? Regards, 老铁
You are going against the {{Infobox song}} and its formatting, stop beating around the bush. —IB [ Poke ] 17:00, 5 March 2018 (UTC)