# Talk:Attack of the Mutant Penguins

Should the contents of a copyrighted game manual be used as the main text of the article.
As can be seen by the citations, most are links to specific pages of a manual and the text had been extensively copied from there.
StraightDown (talk) 14:11, 26 April 2018 (UTC) StraightDown (talk) 14:11, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

No, it should not. Also, this is not a WP:RFC matter: please see Wikipedia:Copyright problems on how to proceed. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:34, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
Oh, so the game's manual are not allowed to be referenced but explain why the manual references in Dino Crisis are referenced then? KGRAMR (talk) 22:24, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
The problem, as I see it, is not in the use of the manual as a ref source, but in the extensive copying of portions of text from that manual.
If something similar (copying text) has been done at Dino Crisis, that too should be proceeded with according to Wikipedia:Copyright problems. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:38, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Attack of the Mutant Penguins/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Shooterwalker (talk · contribs) 03:22, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

I'll take this on and will try to get to it within the week. Shooterwalker (talk) 03:22, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

I'll start with the first section and then we can check the lead on a second pass.
"Attack of the Mutant Penguins is a tower defense game with action, platform, puzzle, and strategy elements," -> make this a full stop
 Done -- I re-arranged the sentence. Roberth Martinez (talk) 22:50, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure "reminiscent of Lemmings" is helpful this early. That might be the kind of thing that's better in development. Or, if it's going to be in the gameplay section, bring that up at a moment that's relevant, where we discuss how the game is similar to Lemmings.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
The first paragraph is otherwise well-written, but I'm not sure about the organization. It's a little confusing to cram the plot into a paragraph bookended by the game's genre and difficulty settings. Consider making the plot its own paragraph, if not its own short section.
 Done -- hopefully...
" Controlling either Bernard or Rodney, the main objective of the game is to kill alien penguins that are distinguished by their outfits before they reach and trigger the Doomscale, a weighing scale-like doomsday weapon brought to Earth by the aliens as part of their domination plan" -> This leans more plot as well, and might fit better with the rest of the plot paragraph. (The part about who you control and who you kill can be separated.)
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
"During gameplay, the player must obtain three letters spelling the character's main weapon (a frying pan for Bernard and a bat for Rodney) within treasure chests that are opened by dropping "Gremlins", blue creatures roaming the playfield that can be picked up." -> Let's try to put this in logical order, so an outside reader can understand. "The player can pick up a "Gremlin" creature in the playfield and drop them on a treasure chest to open it, revealing letters that unlock the player-character's weapon once you spell the right word (a bat for Rodney and a pan for Bernard)".
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:07, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
" power orbs scattered when any penguin is stunned" -> " power orbs dropped when any penguin is stunned"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:07, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
"Grabbing five power orbs energizes the weapon and allows the player to kill alien penguins, while collecting ten power orbs has a different effect for each character; Bernard's main weapon can be thrown as a boomerang or transform Rodney into a fire-breathing creature. There is also a samurai power up that unlocks an The player can find a "samurai" power up which transforms Bernard into a samurai and kill alien penguins by spinning while running into them. Rodney can also grab the power up and turn into the fire-breathing creature." -> "Grabbing five power orbs energizes the weapon for more damage, while each player-character has different special attacks that are unlocked by grabbing ten orbs or a samurai power-up."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:07, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
"must grab them" -> is this a must? What happens if they don't?
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:26, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
"Depending on their overall performance, the player is rewarded" -> "Depending on the player's performance, they are rewarded"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:07, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
"outweight" -> "outweigh"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:07, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
This is generally well written. I might suggest making an attempt to re-organize it a bit, keeping similar content together. (for example, a paragraph about plot, a paragraph about the main gameplay, and a paragraph about settings and modes) Shooterwalker (talk) 14:34, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
@Shooterwalker:OK! i'll go step by step and i will ping you once i'm done with the first pass. Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
@Shooterwalker:All right, i think i'm done with the first pass so, i'll wait for more comments... Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
This is a solid start. Let's keep going.
Development
The first sentence here is a bit of a mouthful, and might read better split into two, if not shortened.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
"Sunrise Games went to Slough and presented their idea, as Atari asked various companies to provide a pitch for original concepts, with Attack of the Mutant Penguins being one of the chosen ones." -> "Atari was asking various studios to propose new game concepts, and they selected Attack of the Mutant Penguins after a presentation from Sunrise Games."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
"Robinson's first implementation of low level graphics code had issues where the visuals would draw correctly but audio slowed down when more objects appeared onscreen, but the problem was solved after various revisions." -> "Robinson's first implementation of low level graphics code had issues where the visuals would draw correctly but audio slowed down when more objects appeared onscreen, but the problem was solved after various revisions." -> "Robinson revised the low level graphics code until issues were resolved, including an issue where audio slowed down when too many objects were on screen."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
"Still has since regarded the game as one of his favorite projects he worked on for the Jaguar, but expressed that "it was a little ahead of its time and people didn't get it back then, but I’ve seen it often in modern games. I doubt it was a direct influence but think we had something before the world was quite ready for it."" -> Producer Daryl Still remembers it as one of his favorite projects, describing the concept as ahead of its time, though speculating that it may have been more popular with newer audiences."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
The last paragraph is a bit of a "miscelleneous". The sentences are individually decent, but I wonder if there's anything we can do to improve the flow or organization?
 Done -- I made some slight changes to the development section, based on your comments... Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:35, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Release
"being one of the last releases for the Jaguar" -> "becoming one of the last releases for the Jaguar," (tweak and add comma)
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:42, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
"until it was eventually published" -> "but it was eventually published"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:42, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
"Sunrise Games would later work on Grand Theft Auto 2 for Microsoft Windows and PlayStation before changing their name in 2000 to RGB Tree and being acquired by Rage Software, which rebranded the company as Rage Leeds and eventually consolidating it into a single location in 2001." -> "Sunrise Games would later work on Grand Theft Auto 2, and changed their name to RGB Tree in 2000. They were later acquired by Rage Software, who rebranded the studio as Rage Leeds before consolidating their operations in 2001."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:42, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
This section was solid. Consider simplifying the list of marketing appearances just because it feels a little too detailed, but it's not bad.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
Reception
"GameFan's Miss Demeanor expressed criticism at the controls when in a hurry. However, Demeanor added that "there is so much fun and action in AMP that you won't care."" -> "GameFan's Miss Demeanor criticized the game's controls, while adding that "there is so much fun and action in AMP that you won't care.""
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
"Computer and Video Games's Tom Guise felt there was not much freedom to the player's actions due to the predetermined placement of traps and noted its difficulty." -> "Computer and Video Games's Tom Guise noted the game's difficulty, and felt that the player's actions were too limited due to the predetermined placement of traps."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
"British publication Ultimate Future Games wrote that it borrowed ideas from titles such as Lemmings, ToeJam & Earl, and Sink or Swim," -> "British publication Ultimate Future Games noted the game's influence from Lemmings, ToeJam & Earl, and Sink or Swim,"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" disagreed" -> try not to do this unless the magazine directly responded. Try a different transition here. For example "In contrast, VideoGames magazine felt the game was engaging."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" agreed" -> same thing. Try "Similarly, Games World noted ..."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" MAN!AC's Oliver Ehrle noted the occasional stuttering during explosions and lack of music during gameplay outside intermissions, and commented that the game became more confusing in more extensive levels. Nevertheless, Ehrle was fond of the penguins animations, the traps introduced on every level, and B movie-style graphics" -> " MAN!AC's Oliver Ehrle praised the game's graphics and animations, but found some of the levels confusing, while criticizing sections that lacked music or caused stuttering."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
"a lack of overview" -> the meaning of this is unclear. Try a rephrase?
I think it most likely means a sense of direction. I could try that and see how that sounds... Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" Game Players's Patrick Baggatta praised the game's colorful and stylish visuals, mixture of action and puzzle, simple controls, and accessible gameplay, but criticized the soundtrack for being uninspired." -> " Game Players's Patrick Baggatta felt that the soundtrack was uninspired, but praised the accessible gameplay, stylish visuals, and blend of action and puzzle elements."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:12, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" concurred with Baggatta" -> similar comment to above. try something else here
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:12, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" ST Format's Iain Laskey highlighted its sprites and puzzles, but lambasted the introductory music and saw that the number of levels were not enough." -> "ST Format's Iain Laskey highlighted the game's sprites and puzzles, but felt that it needed more levels and better music."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:20, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" Löwenstein also commended "-> you use commended twice in a row here. Small word change would improve.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:20, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
" commented positively about the audiovisual presentation" -> "gave positive reviews for the game's audiovisual elements"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:20, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Once again, the sentences are individually well written. But the flow starts to feel a bit scattered. See if you can find a better way to organize the flow. The DOS section is a useful start. See if you can try to give the paragraphs a bit of a subtopic -- good then mixed then bad, or audiovisuals then gameplay. Or if that's too difficult, I'm sure you can figure something out.
I can try applying what you said to me back with the Time Trax review... Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:20, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
That will be a solid pass through the entire article body. We can circle back one more time, looking at the lead too. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
@Shooterwalker:OK! i'll go step by step once again and i will ping you once i'm done with the second pass. Roberth Martinez (talk) 19:44, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
@Shooterwalker:Okay, i believe i'm done with the second pass so, i will await for additional comments... Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:35, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
Giving this a second pass, including the lead.
Lead
You can drop "originally" to make for a tighter opening sentence.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
I can see how it makes sense to follow release information with more release information, but to me it buries what the game is about. One option is to move this to the end of the paragraph, after the plot and gameplay. Another option is to remove some detail -- is it really important to know it's one of the last releases before Atari merged? I'm open to other ideas here too.
Let me see if i can figure something out... Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
" with human outfits capable of transforming into their mutant form" -> scratch this to be more concise and readable
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"The player dispatch the alien penguins in a variety of ways across 20 stages set on various locations before they reach and trigger a weighing scale-like doomsday weapon. The good penguins also aid the player to counteract the aliens' weight on the scale and fight against them." -> I feel like this loses the forest between the trees. The game is about the scale, as far as I can tell. Start with how you play, and then quickly summarize the fact that it uses levels / weapons / etc.
I reworded the sentence. I hope this one sticks the landing... Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"Attack of the Mutant Penguins was one of the first efforts from Atari's European development center, a software division established with the aim of working with independent developers around Europe to create games for the Jaguar." -> "Attack of the Mutant Penguins was one of the first projects supported by Atari's European development center, established to work with European independent developers on new Jaguar games."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"Sunrise Games went to Slough and present their idea, as Atari asked various companies to provide a pitch for original concepts, with Mutant Penguins being one of the chosen ones." -> "Atari selected the project after soliciting presentations from multiple game developers."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"It was co-produced by Alistair Bodin and Darryl Still, both of which led the European development center within Atari, with Sunrise Games founder Wayne Smithson serving as one of the game's designers and programmers. The team sought to create an original and playable experience instead of showcasing the console's hardware. " -> "Sunrise Games founder Wayne Smithson worked with Atari producers Alistair Bodin and Darryl Still, focusing on unique gameplay rather than maximizing the console's hardware."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:25, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
" Both the Jaguar and DOS versions garnered mixed reviews from critics." -> maybe try to summarize in a few words the mix.
 Done -- hopefully... Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:35, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Gameplay
" The plot revolves around an evil but unintelligent alien race from a distant galaxy that stumble upon a wildlife show while monitoring transmissions from Earth. After watching more television, the aliens disguise themselves as penguins to take over Earth." -> "The premise of the game is that Earth is invaded by aliens, who disguise themselves as penguins after monitoring nature television shows."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
" Since the aliens thought penguins were the dominant species, they realized their mistake and improvised the disguises by adding costumes to look human." -> "Believing that penguins were Earth's dominant species, the invading aliens quickly realize their mistake and try to fix their disguises to appear more human."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
" that are distinguished by their outfits" -> you can remove this for now
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"The player is initially locked into a preview state where the locations of items, objects, and switches around the playfield are observed." -> "The player is initially locked into a preview state where they can observe the locations of items and switches within the level."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"Good penguins" -> "The helpful penguins of Earth"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"a number of good penguins" -> "a number of helpful penguins"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
" If the alien penguins outweigh the good penguins on the Doomscale" -> " If the alien penguins outweigh the helpful penguins on the Doomscale"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:39, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
The gameplay section could still use a better organization, just so readers can understand better. I might really try to explain the scale and the different types of penguins up front. It helps to know what the main goal of the game is before you go into details about weapons and bonuses and so on.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:51, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Development
Similarly, let's organize the dev section into three clear paragraphs: first the concept and pitch, second the personnel, and third the technical details and miscellanea. I'll try to explain.
"The team sought to create an original and playable experience instead of showcasing the Jaguar's hardware." -> move this to the final paragraph
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"Smithson found the Jaguar's hardware similar to the Atari ST but trickier due to its architecture, requiring various tricks to draw sprites and interleaving instructions to achieve an optimal performance." -> this too
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Put the "Atari was asking various studios to propose new game concepts, and they selected Attack of the Mutant Penguins after a presentation from Sunrise Games." after the sentence about the first projects the European development center.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Start a new paragraph where you talk about the producers. This becomes the start of the "personnel" paragraph.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
As the second sentence in the personnel paragraph, you can explain how the project ramped up. "Smithson expanded the Sunrise Games' staff as Mutant Penguins became their main focus, with Robinson joining the company after appliying via a job ad in a computer magazine."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
This can follow with the rest of the details about personnel.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
See if you can make sense of the remaining sentences, wich focus on hardware and graphics and tools. They are all part of the same subtopic and make for a solid paragraph.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Some other minor fixes for grammar and flow:
" first efforts from" -> " first projects from"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:53, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
" Atari was asking various" ->  "Atari had asked various"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 00:53, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Release
This looks solid.
Reception
"VideoGames magazine stated that the game can be rather engaging. Atari Gaming Headquarters' Patrick Holstine regarded it as a quality game for the Jaguar." -> connect these short sentences with a good conjunction for flow. (e.g. ", while")
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
"Author Andy Slaven labelled it as "a solid (if short) bit of entertainment." HobbyConsolas identified it as one of the twenty best games for the platform." -> connect these with ", and"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
" annoying" -> "frustrating"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
This section is otherwise looking better, and flows a lot more clearly.
That should be it. We're really close now. Word choice can help with flow, but especially try to pay attention to how the ideas connect together. Shooterwalker (talk) 23:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
@Shooterwalker:Done with the third pass. Let me know for additional details waiting to be addressed! Roberth Martinez (talk) 01:35, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your patience and hard work. Just a few more loose ends now.
"The plot follows Bernard and Rodney, intergalactic freelance heroes sent out to defend Earth against an evil but unintelligent alien race." -> "The plot follows Bernard and Rodney, intergalactic heroes defending earth against alien invaders disguised as penguins."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
"The player dispatch the alien penguins in a variety of ways before they reach and trigger a weighing scale-like doomsday weapon." -> "The player must dispatch the alien penguins before they reach a doomsday weapon, in the form of a weighing scale."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
"The good penguins also aid the player to counteract the aliens' weight on the scale and fight against them." -> "Earth also has real penguins, who help the player by fighting the aliens and counteracting their weight on the scale."
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Link weighing scale in the lead, and also the first time it appears in the body.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
The gameplay section reads a lot better, not just sentence by sentence, but in how it explains things. It's a lot more clear how the game works, because you start with what the goal is, and slowly work your way into more details.
"If the alien penguins outweigh the helpful penguins on the Doomscale, it will trigger the weapon and the game is over." -> Maybe move this statement to the earlier paragraph where you talk about the main point of the game, and the doomscale.
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
"both of which led" -> "both of who led"
 Done -- Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
By a similar token, the development is really clear and flows well now. Great work.
No further notes. We're really close to GA with this one. Shooterwalker (talk) 13:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
@Shooterwalker:OK, done with the fourth pass. I think that's all, right? Thanks for taking the time in reviewing the article! Roberth Martinez (talk) 15:52, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Thanks again and congratulations on another good article. Shooterwalker (talk) 13:37, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
@Shooterwalker:You're welcome! Roberth Martinez (talk) 16:19, 20 September 2023 (UTC)