# Talk:808s & Heartbreak

When kanye reposted both heartless and love lockdown on his blog on november the 8th, did any one notice the ID3 tags of the songs, it says Heartless was track 3 of 12 and love lockdown was track 5 of 12, so what confirmation is their of the track listing that is currently posted - is it reliable? and if so, it can still be subject to change.--Wilsontoddlive (talk) 00:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I saw that, too. We all know Kanye is a perfectionist so for all we know, the track listing could have changed dramatically since MTV/Rap-Up went to the listening party. I'd wait before changing anything though.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.129.160.55 (talk) 23:20, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
If you go to his blog, there are some tracks that are not seen in this article, SO how acurate are these track listings?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.49.7.137 (talk) 09:49, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
The tracklisting here is on amazon and iTunes, so yea, but they have been known to be wrong, ummm and i've been on his blog, i can't stream his new album for what ever reason, nor see any tracklisting.--Wilsontoddlive (talk) 05:08, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Either "A Good Ass Job", "Universe City" or "Mr. West"
--Piazzajordan2 (Talk.) 03:53, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
I have been hearing rumors of "Masters Degree". and T-Wayne as a possible guest.

Before you jump to conclusions about titles, refer to WP:HAMMER.

Heartless
--AndrewTheGod (talk) 17:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
this song is really on the album  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.152.16.4 (talk) 22:51, 9 September 2008 (UTC) 

You have posted is fake it was made by someone on Kanyelive.com  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.152.16.4 (talk) 06:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC) 
I just added a cover.  It's not the real one, but its more interesting than the "no cover" image, which was pretty lame for an album dropping in a month.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coldwarx (talk • contribs) 18:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC) 
Thats not the point though, there is no cover right now.  A placeholder with Kanye in it will just confuse people. Dfnj123 (talk) 16:46, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
Wait, check iTunes for the real cover... if someone can put that on here, then please do it, thanks.  I would but iTunes won't let me get it for the songs I already have: "Kanye West - 808s & Heartbreak doesn't exist" or something along those lines, even though you can look at it and pre-order it if you search it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.182.146.25 (talk) 02:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC) 

I noticed that on Kanye's Blog there is a recent news story that refers to the album as 808's & Heartbreaks. Should we move the page or wait? WIKI-GUY-16 (talk) 01:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Its still called 808s & Heartbreak <ref>[http://www.kanyeuniversecity.com/blog/?em3106=209615_-1__0_~0_-1_10_2008_0_0&em3281=&em3161=]</ref>. Bencey (talk) 16:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Please stop adding the "Confirmed tracks" section. The actual confirmed tracks are already noted in the "Background" section. Having a standalone chart is redundant. It actually reduces the verifiability and reliability of the article by allowing a space where anyone can add any track name without any encyclopedic context. just64helpin (talk) 21:06, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

there was a listening party can we have a possible tracks section cuz they heard the album last night  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeezy09 (talk • contribs) 19:59, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Ah, I see. I've reformatted the listing to clarify this. just64helpin (talk) 20:08, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

As for album: yes, it's almost entirely sung by West, aside from one verse by Young Jeezy on "Amazing" and a duet with Lil Wayne; yes, it is sung almost entirely through Auto-Tune
http://www.thefader.com/articles/2008/10/15/vanessa-beecroft-kanye-west-s-808s-hearbreak-listening-event  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeezy09 (talk • contribs) 20:45, 15 October 2008 (UTC) 

Premiered on Big boy's Neighborhood today (10/16/08).......  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.11.250.4 (talk) 01:09, 17 October 2008 (UTC) 

Heard it, quality was so horrible I had to exit after like 40 seconds. SE KinG (talk) 03:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Kanye stole coldest winter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=728o3osYo3o
2 December 2008

It's called sampling. And if you know Kanye, you know he does that a lot. SE KinG. User page. Talk. 04:56, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
The formatting that is used for the tracks does NOT show the names of the samples, and indeed, makes it unclear that a sample has been used - is this because he's taking the tune without using the original? Are the Tears for Fears guys written down as composers? And finally, are there any other samples on the album? Because if so, I feel that the format should be changed to be like this article:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_(Common_album)Zayniac (talk) 20:08, 14 December 2008 (UTC) (Hadn't signed in before)

The samples currently listed are the only ones mentioned in the liner notes. just64helpin (talk) 20:48, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

http://uheardthatnew.blogspot.com/ 
Lowkey has cosigned this album cover...it's real.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.195.160 (talk) 17:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC) 

It's on a blog, that's not a reliable source.  AcroX  00:05, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah this was just leaked like yesterday so this can confirm the track's length  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riptide775 (talk • contribs) 14:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC) 

Pinnochio Story
http://www.thehiphopchronicle.com/2008/11/12/kanye-west-808-hearbreak-album-review/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.152.16.4 (talk) 02:22, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 

"The album was leaked in it's intirety on the 10th of November, a full 15 days before the official release date of the 25th." Do you habe a reference for this?--Dany3000 (talk) 19:06, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

[1]--Dany3000 (talk) 19:29, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Someone created an advance that they released yesterday so that's probably what they thought of a complete leak.
Album leaks aren't notable enough in articles. Douglasr007 (talk) 22:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
but single leaks?--Dany3000 (talk) 13:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I believe Douglas is talking about WP:ALBUM#LEAK -- that stating "such-and-such leaked on the 20th" is a no-no. just64helpin (talk) 14:34, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
alot of the tracks leaked today See You In My Nightmares...Welcome To Heartbreak.....Streetlights....and Amazing  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.152.16.4 (talk) 22:22, 11 November 2008 (UTC) 

all the tracked have leaked apart from the last 'pinnochio story' freestyle rap track, and all the leak tracks are all of different qualities, none of CDQ yet and lots are unmastered, i wouldn't say its 'leak in its intirety' yet.--Wilsontoddlive (talk) 05:31, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
145.116.125.1, Just don't post that message with the link! It's not authorized!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by I-luv-bjork (talk • contribs) 09:48, 13 November 2008  
All of the leaked tracks (all but two) that i have are all very good quality, nothing wrong with them, a re-mastered version of Robocop leaked yesterday. (90.241.217.55 (talk) 13:51, 14 November 2008 (UTC))
'Say You Will' and 'Bad News' are not CDQ, it's just a technicality in terms of if the 'full cd' leaking compared to lots of tracks from different sources leaking. also the track 'Pinnochio Story', if its his freestyle, is it going to be the live version from the concert, of will he re-record it for the album, so far there is only a live snippet of 'Pinnochio Story' leaked. (Or at least that i can find)--Wilsontoddlive (talk) 07:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
http://paste2.org/p/104112 <-- "Source.......: CDDA " i guess that's the final leak then. .rar also includes a hr picture of what seems to be the retail CD. dunno if it's worth mentioning ... every second album gets leaked nowadays.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jnsdfska wjsdfas (talk • contribs) 20:53, 19 November 2008 (UTC) 

I'd like to point out the WP:ALBUM#LEAK guideline again, just in case it wasn't visible earlier in the topic. just64helpin (talk) 21:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

itunes pre-order has a new cover that was designed by KAWS  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.152.16.4 (talk) 19:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC) 
this new cover should be added, probly won't be able to upload a HQ version of it until release though --Wilsontoddlive (talk) 21:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
that cover looks like a goatse.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.105.132.23 (talk) 23:02, 14 December 2008 (UTC) 

just wondering... does anyone know the reason behind this title... seen it is Knightmares rather that Nightmares? I understand Knightmares is the official title right?--Wilsontoddlive (talk) 05:07, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
hang on, just went to amazon/source, it is Nightmares, wrong spelling, changing it.--Wilsontoddlive (talk) 05:37, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

The actual quote from the Los Angeles Times reads, "The answer, I think, has to do with that underlying Pinocchio story. As New Yorker pop music critic Sasha Frere-Jones wrote in his excellent June 2008 piece on Auto-Tune..." The way it is edited makes it seem as if the ideas presented were originally the LA Times'.--68.56.17.70 (talk) 07:45, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Another thing - that quote has nothing to do with the promotional photos. I'm removing it, if someone feels it can be appropriately used elsewhere, feel free to bring that up on this page.--68.56.17.70 (talk) 07:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Neutral? Well, to me it reads pretty much like a negative review... Can't sing? Can that be part of a neutral review? 213.89.166.251 (talk) 19:55, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. This review is probably one the most brutal. Changed it.Antidote1 (talk) 01:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. Much of what he writes, particularly in terms of production, is quite positive.  What he suggests in the review is that the album is a personal one, released without a filter. This is highlighted in his discussion of Paranoid and how some songs (such as Bad News) linger past what the author feels is an obvious conclusion.  The review is hardly 'brutal'. I would use the word probing. 69.242.51.60 (talk) 02:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC) AG

There are way way too many reviews in the infobox! There should be a maximum of 10 according to WP:Albums. Some of these need to be removed. Go through them and remove ones that give the lesser amount of information, such as not a full length readable review, or lacking a star or number rating. etc. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:56, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Someone already tried that, but another user put them back in again. just64helpin (talk) 17:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
19 reviews is indeed WAY too many. I'm going ahead and removing - Billboard, Clash, Daily Mirror, MusicOMH and Orange because they are either obscure sources or did not provide substantial full-length readable reviews. Antidote1 (talk) 18:23, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

The limit is actually ten reviews, per WP:ALBUM#Professional reviews. just64helpin (talk) 22:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

How come nobody has mentioned that this is his first cd to not contain a parental advisory label. Does this mean the album has no swearing on it? I have'nt heard the cd yet, I'm just asking if Kanye is finally coming clean.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.37.115 (talk) 03:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC) 

Jeezy swears once but it's only "shit" the album doesn't get a PA label unless it says the word "fuck" or something. SE KinG (talk) 05:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Lil Wayne verse in See You In My Nightmares has the word shit aurally crossed out. --Wilsontoddlive (talk) 09:14, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

According to FMQB, the song Paranoid will be sent to radio on the 20th of January 2009. This version of the song appears to feature Rihanna. See You In My Nightmares is also to be sent on the same day. This could mean a double A side - should we wait for confirmation? <ref>http://www.fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=16691</ref> Tikkuy (talk) 10:49, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Um, yes, we should wait. just64helpin (talk) 11:36, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I promise to add atleast two/three audio samples for the album article, if a music section is added. There are dozens of reviews and other online articles about the album and its songs to create the section.
Dan56 (talk) 00:51, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

It is a Single, I even added the refference. There should also be a section about music videos. He shot a music video for Paranoid.
Doesn't it sample this song?
http://www.whosampled.com/sample/view/13280/Kanye%20West%20feat.%20Mr.%20Hudson-Paranoid_The%20Alan%20Parsons%20Project-Standing%20on%20Higher%20Ground/
--99.176.61.162 (talk) 08:42, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

i think there should be a section within the 808s and heartbreak article about its musical style and lyrics, all his other album pages have one, why not 808's and heartbreak ? .  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.214.111.3 (talk) 02:04, 2 January 2011 (UTC) 

I Agree with the previous person's statement. I Request that it have a Musical Style, Lyrical Content and Production and Contents section Simalar To the Wiki pages for The College Dropout,Late Registration,Graduation and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.220.45.89 (talk) 07:47, 30 October 2011 (UTC) 

This review is transcluded from Talk:808s & Heartbreak/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: DAP388 (talk · contribs) 04:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for the late review. Let's get started, shall we? :)

Lead
"released November 24, 2008 on Roc-A-Fella Records in the United States." "On" should be changed to "by".
Done.
"Conceived in the wake of multiple events that distressed him in the previous year, the album marked a major musical departure for West from his previous work, lyrically, vocally, and production-wise." The comma between "comma" and "lyrically" is not needed.
Done.
"Despite a divided reaction from music audiences towards West's stylistic change," I think "varying responses" would be better in this instance.
Done.
Background
"Months later, West and fiancée Alexis Phifer ended their engagement and their long-term on-off relationship, which had begun in 2002." "On-off" should be changed to "intermittent".
Done.
Recording
"Towards this end, West enlisted T-Pain for coaching on how to utilize the technology." "This" should be changed to "the".
Done.
"West himself openly stated that he loves using Auto-Tune and is dismayed that the term has been commonly associated with being "wack"." "Loves" and "is" should reflect a past tense, since he already stated his opinion.
Done.
Composition
No issues.
Release and promotion
No issues.
Initial reaction
No issues.
Commercial performance
No issues.
Critical response
"and dubbed it West's "superstar-freakout album: his Low, his Trans, his Kid A. The one where he decides that frozen remoteness is the only thing that makes sense". Add an "as" between "it" and "West's".
Done. But I will undo per Dan's comment.
Legacy and influence
"Jake Paine of HipHopDX dubbed the album "our Chronic"," Same issues as the one above. Add an "as" between "album" and "our".
Done.
"Todd Martens of the Los Angeles Times has cited 808s & Heartbreak as "the template [...] for essentially the entirety of Drake's young career", and that wrote that Drake "shares West’s love for mood and never-ending existential analysis"." Removed the "has".
Done.
That's all. Oh hold until these issues are resolved. —DAP388 (talk) 17:55, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Since I contributed to the article as well, particularly the critical response and legacy sections, I thought I'd comment: "dub" usually isnt followed w/"as"; correct as is (examples). Dan56 (talk) 23:11, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
I believe I have addressed all of DAP388's concerns on the article. Bruce Campbell (talk) 23:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Looks good. Happy to pass this article. —DAP388 (talk) 04:02, 29 July 2012  (UTC)

you didnt respond to my reasoning.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noah21c (talk • contribs) 22:23, 9 December 2012 (UTC) 

I did, at your talk page. You expressed your personal opinion about The Weeknd's music and Frank Ocean's influences, while claiming Kid Cudi is not cited by the sources (check citations [93][94] at the end of the sentence). You also failed to address exactly what the sources you're refuting say, so what was I supposed to respond to? In short, opinion < cited source. Dan56 (talk) 22:37, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
Also, please dont forget to sign your posts/comments with four tilde characters ~~~~, which show your "signature" and the time/date of your post, as you did not here. Dan56 (talk) 22:39, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I think Kanye's personal, self-effacing lyrics/subject matter on his albums before this one also influenced a lot of those artists mentioned, but again, Wikipedia is supposed to reflect what published, reliable sources have said (WP:STICKTOSOURCE), as enyclopedias are reference works. Dan56 (talk) 22:42, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't get why new wave couldn't stay. Kanye himself said in New York Times interview that it was a "black new wave" album. As opposed to one reviewer calling it Electropop and that's marked as the genre. I actually think that's kind of offensive. It puts Kanye in the same league as Lady Gaga and Katy Perry.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.110.174 (talk) 01:05, 28 September 2013 (UTC) 

And being in the league of Lady Gaga and Katy Perry is "offensive" because? This is not a forum and we don't care about your opinions. Now, for the NYT interview, if West says "808s & Heartbreak" has sold 30M copies, makes it the truth? Read WP:IRS to identify why primary sources are not reliable for some things. Tbhotch.™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 02:11, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you User: Tbhotch, that is basically word-for-word what I was going here to say. STATic message me! 02:50, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
If Pitchfork says it's electropop, does it make it the truth?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.110.174 (talk) 13:38, 29 September 2013 (UTC) 
And also, could we at least name hip hop too as a genre? For ex. Drake doesn't have electropop as genre in any of his albums.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.110.174 (talk) 13:42, 29 September 2013 (UTC) 

Genres are subjective characterizations, not facts or indisputable truths. We draw the line by referring to professional critiques for interpretations of creative works (WP:SUBJECTIVE). Dan56 (talk) 16:33, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
I still don't understand why someone else's interpretation is better than the creator's, but I guess I'll drop this now.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.110.174 (talk) 18:14, 30 September 2013 (UTC) 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/3563469/Kanye-West-808s-and-Heartbreak-out-of-the-darkness.html states it is a synth-pop and R&B album, that should be included THE GTA Guy (talk) 21:15, 24 February 2014 (UTC) 

Refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AlisaJay. © Tbhotch™ (en-2.5). 22:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Change the genres from JUST Electro-pop, to Pop, R&B, electro-pop because...
The source from Pitchfork only calls it a minimal electro-pop album, that doesn't exactly hold water that it is soley an electro-pop album right? Here is a source from The Dwarf that explicitly calls it a pop-R&B album<ref>http://thedwarf.com.au/album_review/808s-heartbreak</ref> therefore that should go before Pitchforks's review of it being minimal.
93.186.31.81 (talk) 11:40, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Sam Sing! 09:33, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

@Vanillagreek:, the sources you cited in this recent addition do not explicitly call this album's music "R&B", and you've used what they say out of context to support something that they do not say--Paste says it "may be closer to R&B than it is to rap" (not that it is either), The Telegraph says its "undertow" (implicit quality or influence) is "R&B", Complex calls its "arrangements" "R&B", The New York Times's Jon Caramanica says the album is "in places" reminiscent of ("redolent of", not is) "R&B", The A.V. Club says it "splits the difference between" (part of one thing and another, not is) new wave and R&B, PopMatters (which more explicitly calls it a "hip-hop version" of other albums) says it "draws the line between" (makes the distinction between, not is) " ‘80s pop, electro, rap, current-day R&B", interjecting 50 Cent's characterization of it as "R&B" (completely irrelevant since he's not a qualified source or critic) detracts from the section's discussion on the controversy the album received from the hip hop community, and the minor daily newspaper Herald News is not a high-quality review source and its presence in a section devoted to reviews from more reputed publications undermines the notability of what is being discussed. If we should include R&B by the standards you've suggested with the sources' statements you've used, then you can make as much an argument to also include "new wave", "hip hop", and "post-punk" (attributed to AllMusic's Andy Kellman in #Music and lyrics → "Several tracks have almost as much in common with irrefutably bleak post-punk albums, such as New Order's Movement and The Cure's Pornography, as contemporary rap and R&B.")  Dan56 (talk) 17:15, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Furthermore, more notable sources explicitly call 808s & Heartbreak an electropop album and are cited in the article--33⅓ writer Kirk Walker Graves from his chapter on this album, Pitchfork Media ("electro-pop record"). Dan56 (talk) 17:22, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Vanillagreek has been blocked as a sock of MariaJaydHicky. - SummerPhDv2.0 21:55, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Kiddulthood:, please don't engage in original research by searching sources that mention "hip hop" in an attempt to verify your personal view of the album. The sources you cited here are not appropriate/high-quality review sources--Bullz-Eye.com, an online men's magazine???, Relevant, a Christian lifestyle magazine???--or do not support what you're using them for--Consequence of Sound's review of the album says that "808s is rap free". Furthermore, you shouldn't be slapping citations in the infobox (which should be based on what is cited in the body; WP:INFOBOXREF) or taking the paragraph in the lead that summarizes #Music_and_lyrics and moving it into #Music_and_lyrics. Dan56 (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
@Dan56: God, you're such two faced it's untrue! But thanks for pinging me into this; it shows how fickle you are; PopMatters (which more explicitly calls it a "hip-hop version" of other albums) now that's wrong make up your bleeding mind will ya? KiDDULTHOOD Talk page 16:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC) Kiddulthood has been blocked as a sock of MariaJaydHicky. - SummerPhDv2.0 21:53, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Kiddulthood, there's no reason for incivility. There are several sources that say this album is not hip hop, including one cited in this article--The Independent: "...his usual hip-hop style replaced by a minimal electropop sound...", and if it's any consolation, West himself has said "This is not hip hop music". Furthermore, PopMatters says "West might be making his own hip-hop version..." before saying: "As a whole the album draws lines between ‘80s pop, electro, rap, current-day R&B, and other genres". Dan56 (talk) 17:19, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
OK, I apologise, Sorry Dan56 it was un-called for me coming across as a bellend to you, but do you agree we should keep the '80 pop, electro, current-day R&B and other genres source as well as Flagenhoef's sourced genres? KiDDULTHOOD Talk page 17:22, 10 August 2014 (UTC) Kiddulthood has been blocked as a sock of MariaJaydHicky. - SummerPhDv2.0 21:53, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Please stop misusing one critic's point of view and giving it undue weight by making it the basis of the infobox's genre field. PopMatters says the album "draws the line between...", which if you looked up the definition of this phrase, does not mean it is "pop, electro, rap," etc. It isn't Flagenhoef's sourced genre--electropop is cited throughout #Music and lyrics and is used by several sources. I'm reverting your recent edit to this article because you have failed to address any of the POV and OR issues I've brought up; if you restore it, I'll start an RfC for more experienced editors to weigh in, which will be more time-consuming, but will decide what's best for the article either way. Dan56 (talk) 17:24, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
HH.Mandem, LA Weekly calls it a "mashup" of pop, electronic, and hip hop, not a hip hop album, and the fact that you're willing to give one source with one insignificant mention of "hip hop" such undue weight suggests a bias similar to the above editors. Several sources call this "electropop", and they are cited in #Music and lyrics. Please stop slapping any source you can find to support your personal opinion. Dan56 (talk) 18:48, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
user:Dan56, if you read the article itself there's enough evidence that calls it hip hop; and why are you continually vandalizing the page? HH.Mandem (talk) 18:54, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

@Dan56: The reason I removed the source because you can't see the credits, you only can see it if you type in the words in the search box. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 19:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I've added a note in the citation, instructing readers how to find the information. Dan56 (talk) 20:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
@Dan56: Thanks, that would help. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 23:42, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake:, can you please explain to me how this is "more appropriate for the album and artist" than "vocalist and producer"? It seems to me "recording artist" is much vaguer and doesn't clearly explain to the reader what West does exactly, which would deviate from the principle of WP:ASTONISH. "Vocalist and producer" seems to me more concise and definitive for the nonspecialist reader (perhaps not immediately familiar with what West generally does as a recording artist), giving more information in but a few words, as is the definition of concise. Furthermore, "if the subject is a term of art, provide the context as early as possible", as says WP:BETTER/GRAF1. Piotr Jr. (talk) 16:36, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@Piotr Jr.: I was thinking that "recording artist" is more appropriate since the album is an experimental effort from a rapper and I'd seen this term used in non-rap articles of West before, also if you still see your suggestion as correct, should it be implemented to the album's songs too? --K. Peake 17:44, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
I think that "recording artist" can already be inferred by readers, if they know what that phrase means to begin with, since the subject is an album, which is a released recording. So we should take the opportunity to clearly define what kind of artist he is. And yes, I would recommend "vocalist and producer" elsewhere if applicable. Piotr Jr. (talk) 17:49, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
To be fair, West sometimes veers to sung/melodic vocals even on his rap records. So "vocalist" is a pretty apt generalization under this article's circumstances, I think. Piotr Jr. (talk) 18:21, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
You are right to be honest since it is preferable to be more specific, but I have changed to using the full term "record producer" for correct identification of the type of production and since other producers are introduced in the articles using this term. --K. Peake 09:05, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
That's good. And thanks for all your input ! Piotr Jr. (talk) 15:39, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Search for 'first hip hop albums to use 808', 9/4/2023, you get a suggested drop down question/answer for "Did Kanye popularize 808s?"
No. Kids. No he did not. Not remotely. Not even when he was making the record. 808 came and has always been there. For Hiphop, Rap, and Electronic music. The title is a head-nod. Besides, Google, that had nothing to do with what the search/question was about. C'mon. 2603:6010:6001:2A72:F1F6:1E4A:4C3:35B9 (talk) 01:14, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/how-tyler-the-creator-odd-future-evolved-and-dominated-the-2010s/
https://consequence.net/2013/06/dusting-em-off-kanye-west-808s-heartbreak/
https://web.archive.org/web/20190326172545/https://www.allmusic.com/album/808s-heartbreak-mw0000802924
So... do these just... not count? These were the sources I was referring to. 4TheLuvOfFax (talk) 10:39, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

@4TheLuvOfFax: We don't take edits from editors who are evading their block; I already talked to Binksternet about it. Don't add genres if you don't know what you're doing. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 03:46, 19 July 2025 (UTC)
I mean on my own terms, should R&B album  be removed from categories? 4TheLuvOfFax (talk) 13:38, 19 July 2025 (UTC)
@4TheLuvOfFax: If a source doesn't explicitly label the album as R&B, I don't see why it should be there. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 08:12, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
Can experimental R&B be placed on there? After all, one of the sources says "closer to an experimental R&B album than to a rap album", or does that not count either. 4TheLuvOfFax (talk) 16:35, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
oh yeah, there's also this page
 4TheLuvOfFax (talk) 16:37, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
The supposed source from MJH sockpuppets is The State Journal-Register questioning whether the album can be considered R&B without having any harmony. That is definitely not a shining example of the album being defined as R&B. Binksternet (talk) 01:40, 22 July 2025 (UTC)