# Talk:Before and After (Rush song)

This review is transcluded from Talk:Before and After (Rush song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Nominator: HumanxAnthro (talk · contribs) 01:55, 10 February 2025 (UTC)
Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 08:21, 8 April 2025 (UTC)

It is reasonably well written.
a. (prose, spelling, and grammar): 

b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): 

It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a. (reference section): 

b. (citations to reliable sources): 

c. (OR): 

d. (copyvio and plagiarism): 

It is broad in its coverage.
a. (major aspects): 

b. (focused): 

It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: 

It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: 

It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): 

b. (appropriate use with suitable captions): 

Overall:
Pass/fail: 

(Criteria marked  are unassessed)
After passing your two GAs, here is another review! --K. Peake 08:21, 8 April 2025 (UTC)


### Infobox and lead
Change the genre from folk rock to simply folk in the infobox, especially with the prose specifying it is classed as a non-rocker
The non-rocker description is in quotes because it is not meant to be interpreted literally as the song not being rock. What the journalist intended was that it was not a loud head-banging party song the way the rest of the album was, but obviously there is plenty of rock music that is not like that. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:18, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
With that said, another user changed it to folk rock assuming the entire song was rock, so you are right to suggest this. Fixed. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:19, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
For the credits written completely in the infobox, you need to add a credits and personnel section in the article before the notes section
Didn't realize that I did not have that section. Thanks! User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:28, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
The exact release date of the album and the song's position is not notable for the lead; instead, the first sentence should mention at the end it is from their self-titled debut album (1974)
Fixed User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"it was composed by" → "the suite was composed by"
Fixed User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"Lee wrote the lyrics." → "with Lee writing the lyrics."
I have no idea what user rewrote it like that, but thanks for catching that. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"It is their first" → "It is the band's first"
I just combined both sentences
It is not mentioned in the prose nor on the note that the song was their actual first multi-part
Usually baseline facts like this are not brought up again in later sections in articles in general. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
To make the two paragraphs more balanced in size, move the first two sentences of the second one to the end of the first para
It would be extremely odd to have summaries of the two parts split up like this. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"of the other tracks." → "of the album's other tracks."
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"of the band's output" → "of Rush's output"
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"Ultimate Classic Rock 129th." → "while Ultimate Classic Rock placed it 129th."
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:37, 9 April 2025 (UTC)


### Background
Remove overly obvious wikilink on Toronto
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Would it be more suited to write "on site" instead of "on the spot"?
Oh, never thought of that phrase. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"was supposed to submit them," → "was supposed to submit," because this is implied by you having already used* them earlier in this sentence
Oh, good catch! User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Link overdubs to Overdubbing
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Invoke the liner notes at the end of the very last sentence
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:40, 9 April 2025 (UTC)


### Parts
Since this is similar to a track listing, shouldn't it be the section after reception and legacy?
This is how other articles on the Rush suites are formatted, and listing movements of a song is not exactly the same as a tracklist, even though the same template is used. I do not think there is an widely-established precedent for movement lists, though, so I'm open to doing this. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:42, 9 April 2025 (UTC)


### Composition
Retitle to composition and lyrics
I just split the section User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:47, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Audio sample looks good!
To avoid using so many quote marks, could you re-word non-rocker to non-rock number?
No, because its not a literal description. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:47, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"before the electric guitar gets louder" → "The electric guitar then gets louder" as a new sentence to avoid a run-on
I just removed "transitioning into the next section"
"aggressive and anthemic" → "aggressive, and anthemic"
Fixed User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:47, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Wikilink tempo
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:47, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Shouldn't alla breve be italicised?
If MOS says to italicize time signature terminology, sure. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:47, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Link heartbreak to Broken heart
Ooooh, did not know this was an article. Good comment! User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:48, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"and where Rush were opening acts." does not read clearly right now – please re-contextualise to show whether you mean Rush were opening acts at this time or opening acts for those groups
Re-written. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:51, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"seen in other of the band's early songs" → "seen in the band's other early songs"
Recorded for Fly By Night is not sourced
I just removed this. It is a track on the album though, so I do not see why there would need to be a source for this. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:51, 9 April 2025 (UTC)


### Reception and legacy
Img looks good!
Mentioning Rush critical reception with a link and all that detail feels trivial; re-word the first sentence about this suite to "Despite favorable reviews of Rush, discussion of "Before" and "After..."
I just removed the first sentence. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:54, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"Thrillist 35 out of all" → "while Thrillist placed the song 35 out of all"
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:54, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"of the group's output" → "of their output" to avoid using band/group too much
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:54, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
"Alex Body and Ryan Reed" → "Alex Body, and Ryan Reed"
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:54, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Re-invoke [4] at the end of the sentences using direct quoting
What? Last time I checked, you are only supposed to put citations every period specifically. The opinions are split by a comma, not a period. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:59, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Are you sure the underscore is meant to kept from The Phoenician or if it's just how the name is stylized on the website?
You can look at the article yourself. That really is how the author name is stylized. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:59, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Ultimate Guitar should not be italicised
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:59, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Re-invoke [19] at the end of the sentences using direct quoting
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:59, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Starting the whole quote from "Alex Lifeson's guitar game" is too much; put some of this into your own words please
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 14:59, 9 April 2025 (UTC)


### Notes
Shouldn't note a invoke any relevant ref(s)?
It's a baseline fact, kind of like Paris being the capital of France. Last time I check, stuff like this did not need a citation. Honestly, it is really pointless to have so I just removed it. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 15:04, 9 April 2025 (UTC)


### Citations
Copyvio score looks non existent at 2%!!!
Wikilink HarperCollins on ref 1
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 15:01, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Wikilink Voyageur Press on ref 7 per MOS:LINK2SECT
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 15:01, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
Cite Ultimate Guitar as publisher instead on ref 19
Done User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 15:01, 9 April 2025 (UTC)


### Final comments and verdict
 On hold until all of the issues are fixed; nice job with this one! --K. Peake 11:13, 9 April 2025 (UTC)
HumanxAnthro Regarding invoking the citations after direct quotes, I thought this was supposed to be done as there are speech marks so quotes should be sourced at the next piece of grammar. --K. Peake 10:56, 10 April 2025 (UTC)
Eh, whatever. I put the citation near the comma. User:HumanxAnthro (BanjoxKazooie) 10:53, 11 April 2025 (UTC)
 Pass now, I had been busy but got back you on this one in due time! --K. Peake 07:16, 14 April 2025 (UTC)