# Talk:Benjamin Franklin High School (New Orleans)

I'd rate this as a B .... importance is either low or mid. I'm too far away (UK) to judge how rare a Magnet school is. What do others think? Victuallers 19:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to agree with your assessment and I've changed the assessment to reflect that. This article seems well-cited and concise without being incomplete Adam McCormick 19:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I know what a Magnet school is now and the newsweek ref justifies the mid. This could go "GA" Victuallers (talk) 22:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The previous peer review brought up excellent points and more prose/expansion could definitely be used (from a better writer). Nevertheless, I'm going to go ahead and give the article its first GA nomination to see just how far it is from GA status.  --Jh12 (talk) 01:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Franklin was a featured story of the 2009 Best High Schools list by U.S. News & World Report. [1][2] and ranked 16 in the nation.[3] --Jh12 (talk) 14:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

As a member of the first class at Franklin, I wish to correct some misconceptions about the purpose of the school.
The school was intended to provide a quality secondary school education for students that intended to go on to college.  It was not focused upon math and science.  It was intended to be a "college prep" school, and still is.  At the time there were two Catholic high schools that were viewed as the best choice for students wishing to go on to college.  Franklin was the option for many non-catholics and the general populace.
The concept of Franklin was nurtured from about 1954 or 1955 by the first principal, Naomi Gardberg ( see: http://www.benfranklinhighschool.org/development/alumni_ggscholar.htm)  . Many of the education folks in the public school system resisted a school focused upon the bright students, and thought more effort was due to the less-capable youth.  In the end, Ms Gardberg's supporters won out.  It wasn't until 1960, when the first class graduated, that the results of her efforts were realized.
The "space race" occurred after the school opened, so any reference to Sputnik is not accurate.
The curriculum was very "liberal arts".  We had an english class, social studies class, a foreign language class, phys ed, a science class and a math class.  There was no emphasis upon math or science.  The only science emphasis was that we had two mandatory science classes, biology and chemistry, and the third year we had an option for physics.
The school's procedures were unlike any other New Orleans public school.  We had to maintain an 85% grade or we went back to the normal system.  We had college-like mid-term and final exams that took two or three hours.
Our entrance requirements involved a Stanford-Benet IQ test and good grades from junior high, plus teacher recommendations.  The cutoff for IQ was 120, hence we were marked as "gifted".
The entrance criteria was found to be lacking in terms of predicting student retention.  To wit, of the 125 or so initial class, only 62 graduated, and I was one of them.  After several years, the school used better tools that emphasized organizing skills, study habits and discipline.  "standardized" tests and such were still used, but teacher recommendations and a pure IQ test were de-emphasized.
The biggest difference between Franklin's curricula from the rest of the New Orleans public schools was the lack of many "electives" such as art, music, woodshop, etc.  It was all basics.
The results speak for themselves.  The school has a 99.5% college acceptance rate, and most of the graduates obtain scholarships to very respected universities.
mcadoo1964 Mcadoo1964 (talk) 22:35, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks for posting here; it's the kind of detail that seems to have been lost over the years. Speaking primarily as a Wikipedia editor, however, please understand that Wikipedia is not based on truth, it is based on Wikipedia:Verifiability. The statements in the beginning of the history section are based to a large extent on the most extensive (i.e. only)  article on the school history I could find on LexisNexis:
Thevenot, Brian (2004-05-18), Drawn Apart; New Orleans public magnet schools represent both an answer to failed integration and a new kind of segregation., The Times-Picayune {{citation}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
The statement "Dr. Thomas Tews (Principal, 1988–2001) believed the school was founded as part of a nationwide push for elite science and math academies, prompted by the launching that year of Sputnik by the Soviet Union." is correct because that's what Dr. Tews actually believed according to the The Times-Picayune. In fact, this entire article is pieced together from third-party, external sources, such as the Time magazine article http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,871912,00.html . There will be discrepancies, and it's compounded by the fact that there doesn't seem to be a published book on the school history and the school website doesn't contain extensive history either. The only way for me to entirely fix these discrepancies is to obtain additional Wikipedia:Reliable Sources Best, --Jh12 (talk) 23:16, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
My observation regarding Dr. Tews' feelings concerning Sputnik are valid, regardless of his feelings.  Sputnik was launched a month after classes started at Ben Franklin.
It seems to me that the first mention of the school indicated it would be more focused upon hard-core academics, including math and science.  However, by the time the curriculum was finalized, it was a broad-based one, and did not emphasize science or math more than other academic disciplines.
I shall try to have other graduates from the early years contribute, and editors can use our inputs as they see fit.
The school is a shining beacon for a devastated area, and it took the efforts of grads, terachers, students and other parties to get it up and running just four months after the storm.  I was there that day and helped haul donated books, computers and paper, pencils, etc.
I am having trouble finding  the means to input my recollections for the main article and could use some help.
mcadoo1964Mcadoo1964 (talk) 02:48, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

No problem, just keep in mind that information on Wikipedia has to be cited to a reliably published source and has to fulfill the three core content policies Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research, and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Because the article is currently semi-protected, if you have recommendations for changes to the text you may want to bring them up here first or work on a draft in a user subpage like User:Mcadoo1964/Draft   --Jh12 (talk) 03:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Salute
I still find the "Wiki" procedures difficult, and I am not a "clueless" old man with regards to computers and bulletin boards, etc.
I shall try to visit the New Orleans Public Library, which has microfilm of the Times-Picayune.  Katrina may have ruined much of the archives, but there is still hope.  First person recollections are great, but there must be a consensus upon a few recollections.  The New Orleans Times-Picayune had many articles about Benjamin Franklin before, during and after.
I have been part of the oral history research by Texas Tech WRT VietNam combat, so I know the drill.
I have talked with old friends about events long past, and it surprises me that their recollections differ from mine on a few experiences, but no big deal.  Nonetheless, if we have a fairly broad consensus from several folks, then it's the best the historians can do, huh?  Also makes me wish I would have kept a diary.
Be back in touch, and I'll try to figure out the "admin" procedures here.
Pat sends....  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcadoo1964 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 25 January 2009 (UTC) 
Salute
I am still having trouble with the procedures here, but I did try to use the "talk" feature and other options.
I noticed that the Franklin High School entry has been updated since a week ago.
Attaboy.
I shall try to have the school take on a project to add to the history of its early years.
Thanks,
Pat, Mcadoo1964 (talk) 19:23, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Why is this 'accusation' in the Wiki article?  It does not seem relevant.
1) Accusation
a) Claim is from 1998.  Where is the year stated.  It is now 2014 !   Was this last year or decades ago?
b) The issue should have been resolved one way or another by now !  if to be discussed, what was the outcome of the issue. 
c) What is relevance of claim that 450 of 800 applicants on average not accepted.  There is no context there.  Class size is about 200 kids, 800 kids total in school.
2) 'Following Katrina'
a) WHAT IS KATRINA?   I know, twas a Hurricane in 2005.  Is the general reader going to know that?  NOPE.  Too vague.  Please Revise !
b) So in 2005, the school went Charter.  The school kept its admission requirements.  Is there any relevance at all to the 'accusation'.  It does not appear to be so.
3) Praise for performance.
a) Relevant.  Explain.  Provide facts to support claim.  Such as 1/4 of class are National Merit Scholars per year.  And this school and Jesuit(? check ?) are the top two schools with such numbers.  Jesuit currently has more total.  Franklin is higher when viewed as percentage of class.
b) Should be in its own section.  Something like 'Excellence in Academics' or some such nonsense.
c) 'exceptional number of students awarded NASP of NMSC'.  This claim is useless without numbers.
This section of the article on the school is poorly written.  Suggest it be deleted !
"Accusations of bias in admissions
The school's selective admissions policies have led to accusations of bias.[42] Before Hurricane Katrina, it was estimated that 450 of 800 applicants on average were not accepted because of insufficient grades and test scores.[96] Compared to the rest of the city, the school has a disproportionately low percentage of African Americans.[97] Carl Galmon, a local activist, claimed in 1996 that Franklin's admissions tests are culturally biased against black students.[98] Following Katrina, the school converted to a charter school and preserved its selective admissions system.[6][28] The school has received praise for traditionally producing some of the "highest-performing students in the entire state of Louisiana,"[23] including an exceptional number of students awarded by the National Achievement Scholarship Program of the National Merit Scholarship Corporation, a program open only to African Americans.[10]"

            70.147.184.83 (talk) 20:56, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

As the primary author of this WP:Good article, I would like to state that I have never claimed to be a good writer. In fact, I invite anyone to come and improve the article. I would point out, however, that the format of this article was patterned off of the WP:Featured article Stuyvesant High School, and its section on admissions bias is no less weighted proportionally than it is here. This is not the only time the selective admissions process of Ben Franklin has been questioned, and the school has been included in civil rights complaints as recently as this year [4]. Please review Wikipedia:Recentism, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, and Wikipedia:Verifiability. This article was created by combing through hundreds of pages and documents published in newspapers, journals, books, and webpages using search resources from 4 universities. All statements listed in the section are clearly cited, and therefore I do not believe them to be irrelevant. - Jh12 (talk) 05:49, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

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