H: NIST has has done a big meeting room instrumented meeting room with video and microphone arrays , and very elaborate software .
H: Is is he the one working on that ?
B: Well that 's what they 're starting up .
H: OK .
B: Yeah . No , I mean , that 's what all this is about . They they haven't done it yet .
H: OK .
B: They wanted to do it H: I had read some papers that looked like they had already done some work .
B: Uh , well I think they 've instrumented a room
B: but I don't think they they haven't started recordings yet .
B: They don't have the t the transcription standards .
E: Are they going to do video as well ?
B: They don't have the H: Hmm .
B: Yeah .
E: Hmm .
B: I think .
B: I think they are .
H: Oh , cuz what what I had read was , uh , they had a uh very large amount of software infrastructure for coordinating all this ,
H: both in terms of recording and also live room where you 're interacting the participants are interacting with the computer , and with the video , and lots of other stuff .
B: Well , I 'm I 'm I 'm not sure .
H: So .
B: All all I know is that they 've been talking to me about a project that they 're going to start up recording people meet in meetings .
H: OK . Well B: And , uh , it is related to ours .
B: They were interested in ours .
B: They wanted to get some uniformity with us , uh , about the transcriptions and so on .
H: Alright .
B: And one one notable difference u u
B: actually I can't remember whether they were going to routinely collect video or not ,
B: but one one , uh , difference from the audio side was that they are interested in using array mikes .
B: So , um , I mean , I 'll just tell you the party line on that .
B: The reason I didn't go for that here was because , uh , the focus , uh , both of my interest and of Adam 's interest was uh , in impromptu situations .
B: And
B: we 're not recording a bunch of impromptu situations
B: but that 's because it 's different to get data for research than to actually apply it .
D: Hmm .
B: And so , uh , for scientific reasons we thought it was good to instrument this room as we wanted it .
B: But the thing we ultimately wanted to aim at was a situation where you were talking with , uh , one or more other people i uh , in in an p impromptu way , where you didn't didn't actually know what the situation was going to be .
B: And therefore it would not it 'd be highly unlikely that room would be outfitted with with some very carefully designed array of microphones .
B: Um , so it was only for that reason . It was just , you know , yet another piece of research
B: and it seemed like we had enough troubles just E: So there 's no like portable array of mikes ?
B: No . So there 's there 's uh , there 's a whole range of things there 's a whole array of things , that people do on this .
D: Hmm .
B: So , um ,
B: the , uh the big arrays ,
B: uh , places , uh , like uh , Rutgers , and Brown , and other other places ,
B: uh , they have , uh , big arrays with , I don't know , a hundred hundred mikes or something .
H: Xerox .
B: And so there 's a wall of mikes .
B: And you get really , really good beam - forming <comment> with that sort of thing .
E: Wow .
B: And it 's and , um ,
B: in fact at one point we had a a proposal in with Rutgers where we were gonna do some of the sort of per channel signal - processing
B: and they were gonna do the multi - channel stuff ,
B: but it d it d we ended up not doing it .
B: But E: I 've seen demonstrations of the microphone arrays . It 's amazing how how they can cut out noise .
B: Yeah , it 's r It 's really neat stuff .
H: And then they have little ones too
B: And then they had the little ones , yeah .
H: but I mean but they don't have our block of wood ,
H: right ?
B: Yeah , our block of wood is unique .
D: Yeah .
B: But the But the
B: No , there are these commercial things now you can buy that have four mikes or something
A: Mm - hmm .
B: and and , uh ,
B: um B: So , yeah , there 's there 's there 's a range of things that people do .
E: Huh .
B: Um , so if we connected up with somebody who was interested in doing that sort of thing that 's that 's a good thing to do .
B: I mean , whenever I 've described this to other people who are interested on the with the acoustic side that 's invariably the question they ask .
B: Just like someone who is interested in the general dialogue thing will always ask " um , are you recording video ? "
B: Um , right ?
A: Right ,
B: And and the acoustic people will always say , " well are you doing , uh , uh , array microphones ? "
A: right .
B: So it 's it 's a good thing to do , but it doesn't solve the problem of how do you solve things when there 's one mike or at best two mikes in in this imagined PDA that we have .
B: So maybe maybe we 'll do some more of it .
G: Well one thing I I mean , I don't know .
G: I mean , I know that having an array of I mean , I would imagine it would be more expensive to have a an array of microphones .
G: But couldn't you kind of approximate the natural sis situation by just shutting off uh , channels when you 're later on ?
G: I mean , it seems like if the microphones don't effect each other then couldn't you just , you know , record them with an array and then just not use all the data ?
H: It 's it 's just a lot of infrastructure that for our particular purpose we felt we didn't need to set up .
G: I see .
G: Fine .
A: Yeah .
G: OK .
B: Yeah , if ninety - nine percent of what you 're doing is c is shutting off most of the mikes , then going through the B: But if you get somebody who 's who who has that as a primary interest then that put then that drives it in that direction .
H: That 's right , I mean if someone if someone came in and said we really want to do it ,
A: Right .
H: I mean , we don't care .
H: That would be fine ,
E: So to save that data you You have to have one channel recording per mike in the array ?
H: Buy more disk space .
E: Is that B: Well , uh , at some level at some level .
H: I usually do a mix .
B: But then , you know , there 's it there 's E: What you save , I mean , if you 're going to do research with it . yeah
B: There 's B: I I don't know what they 're going to do and I don't know how big their array is .
B: Obviously if you were gonna save all of those channels for later research you 'd use up a lot of space .
E: Yeah .
H: Well their software infrastructure had a very elaborate design for plugging in filters , and mixers , and all sorts of processing .
E: Hmm .
B: And , th
H: So that they can do stuff in real time and not save out each channel individually .
B: Yeah .
E: Mmm .
B: Yeah .
H: So it was , uh D: Yeah .
B: But I mean , uh , for optimum flexibility later you 'd want to save each channel .
B: But I think in practical situations you would have some engine of some sort doing some processing to reduce this to some to the equivalent of a single microphone that was very directional .
E: Uh , oh , OK , I see .
B: Right ?
B: So A: I mean , it seems E: Sort of saving the result of the beam - forming .
D: Yeah .
A: it seems to me that there 's you know , there are good political reasons for for doing this ,
A: just getting the data ,
A: because there 's a number of sites A: like right now SRI is probably gonna invest a lot of internal funding into recording meetings also , which is good ,
A: um , but they 'll be recording with video
A: and they 'll be A: You know , it 'd be nice if we can have at least , uh , make use of the data that we 're recording as we go
A: since it 's sort of this is the first site that has really collected these really impromptu meetings ,
A: um , and just have this other information available .
A: So , if we can get the investment in just for the infra infrastructure
A: and then ,
A: I don't know ,
A: save it out
A: or have whoever 's interested
A: save that data out ,
A: transfer it there ,
A: it 'd be g it 'd be good to have have the recording . I think .
H: You mean to to actually get a microphone array and do that ?
A: Well , if H: And video and A: Even if we 're not A: I 'm not sure about video .
A: That 's sort of an video has a little different nature since
A: right n right now we 're all being recorded but we 're not being taped .
A: Um , but it definitely in the case of microphone arrays , since if there was a community interested in this , then H: Well , but I think we need a researcher here who 's interested in it . To push it along .
B: See the problem is it it took , uh , uh , it took at least six months for Dan to get together the hardware and the software , and debug stuff in in the microphones , and in the boxes .
B: And it was a really big deal .
B: And so I think we could get a microphone array in here pretty easily
B: and , uh , have it mixed to to one channel of some sort .
A: Mm - hmm .
B: But , e I think for
B: I mean , how we 're gonna decide B: For for maximum flexibility later you really don't want to end up with just one channel that 's pointed in the direction of the the the p the person with the maximum energy or something like that .
B: I mean , you you want actually to you want actually to have multiple channels being recorded so that you can B: And to do that , it we 're going to end up greatly increasing the disk space that we use up ,
B: we also only have boards that will take up to sixteen channels
B: and in this meeting , we 've got eight people and and six mikes .
B: And there we 're already using fourteen .
H: And we actually only have fifteen .
H: One of them 's B: E
D: Yeah .
H: Details .
H: But fifteen , not sixteen .
A: Mm - hmm .
B: Yeah .
B: Yeah .
A: Well if there 's a way to say time to sort of solve each of these f those A: So suppose you can get an array in because there 's some person at Berkeley who 's interested and has some equipment ,
A: uh , and suppose we can as we save it we can , you know , transfer it off to some other place that that holds this this data ,
A: who 's interested ,
A: and even if ICSI it itself isn't .
A: Um , and it it seems like as long as we can time align the beginning , do we need to mix it with the rest ?
A: I don't know .
A: You know ? The
B: Yeah . So I think you 'd need a separate a separate set up
A: So B: and the assumption that you could time align the two .
A: Yeah .
H: And y it 'd certainly gets skew .
A: I mean it 's just it 's worth considering as sort of
A: once you make the up front investment <comment> and can sort of save it out each time , and and not have to worry about the disk space factor , then it mi it might be worth having the data .
B: I 'm not so much worried about disk space actually .
B: I mentioned that , b as a practical matter ,
H: Just B: but the real issue is that , uh , there is no way to do a recording extended to what we have now with low skew .
B: So you would have a t completely separate set up ,
B: which would mean that the sampling times and so forth would be all over the place compared to this .
A: Right .
B: So it would depend on the level of pr processing you were doing later ,
B: but if you 're d i the kind of person who 's doing array processing you actually care about funny little times .
B: And and so you actually wou would want to have a completely different set up than we have ,
A: I see .
B: one that would go up to thirty - two channels or something .
A: Mmm .
B: So basically H: Or a hundred thirty - two .
B: or a hun
B: Yeah .
B: So , I 'm kinda skeptical ,
B: but um I think that A: Mmm .
B: So , uh , I don't think we can share the resource in that way .
B: But what we could do is if there was someone else who 's interested they could have a separate set up which they wouldn't be trying to synch with ours
B: which might be useful for for them .
A: Right , I mean at least they 'd have the data and the transcripts ,
B: And then we can offer up the room ,
A: and B: Yeah , we can o offer the meetings , and the physical space ,
A: Right .
B: and and yeah , the transcripts , and so on .
A: OK .
A: Right , I mean , just it 'd be nice if we have more information on the same data .
A: You know ,
B: Yeah .
A: and A: But it 's if it 's impossible or if it 's a lot of effort then you have to just balance the two ,
B: Well I thi
B: yeah , the thing will be , u u in in again , in talking to these other people to see what you know , what what we can do .
A: so A: Right .
B: Uh , we 'll see .
E: Is there an interest in getting video recordings for these meetings ?
E: I mean
B: Right , so we have we H: Yes , absolutely . But it 's exactly the same problem ,
H: that you have an infrastructure problem ,
H: you have a problem with people not wanting to be video taped ,
H: and you have the problem that no one who 's currently involved in the project is really hot to do it .
E: Hmm .
E: So there 's not enough interest to overcome all of H: Mm - hmm .
A: Right . Internally ,
A: but I know there is interest from other places that are interested in looking at meeting data and having the video .
A: So it 's just G: Yeah , w although I m I I have to u u mention the human subjects problems , that i increase with video .
A: Right , that 's true .
B: Yeah , so it 's , uh , people people getting shy about it .
G: Yeah .
B: There 's this human subjects problem .
B: There 's the fact that then um , if B: i I I 've heard comments about this before ,
B: " why don't you just put on a video camera ? "
B: But you know , it 's sort of like saying , " uh , well we 're primarily interested in in some dialogue things ,
B: uh , but , uh , why don't we just throw a microphone out there . "
B: I mean , the thing is , once you actually have serious interest in any of these things then you actually have to put a lot of effort in .
E: Mmm .
B: And , uh , you really want to do it right .
H: I know .
H: Yep .
B: So I think NIST or LDC , or somebody like that I think is much better shape to do all that .
B: We there will be other meeting recordings . We won't be the only place doing meeting recordings .
G: Mm - hmm .
B: We are doing what we 're doing .
B: And , uh , hopefully it 'll be useful .
G: I it it occurred to me , has Don signed a human subject 's form ?
H: Oh ! Probably not .
G: A permission form ?
H: Has Don have you s did you si
H: I thought you did actually .
H: Didn't you read a digit string ?
F: I was  Yeah , I was I was here I was here before once .
E: You were here at a meeting before .
G: You were here at a meeting before .
H: Yeah , and you and you signed a form .
E: Yeah .
F: So .
G: Did you sign a form ?
F: Oh , I think so .
F: Did I ?
H: I 'm pretty sure .
F: I don't know .
H: Well I 'll I 'll get another one before the end of the meeting .
G: OK .
H: Thank you .
B: Yeah .
G: OK .
F: Yeah .
B: Yeah .
G: You don't you don't have to leave for it .
G: But I just B: Yeah , we we G: you know .
H: Well I can't ,
F: Can I verbally consent ?
H: I 'm wired in .
B: We we we we don't , uh A: Yeah .
G: o
A: You 're on recor you 're being recorded
F: Yeah .
A: and F: I don't care .
B: we don't we don't perform electro - shock during these meetings ,
F: You can do whatever you want with it .
F: That 's fine .
B: and E: Usually .
B: Yeah .
B: OK .
B: Uh , transcriptions .
G: Transcriptions , OK .
G: Um , I thought about there are maybe three aspects of this .
G: So first of all , um , I 've got eight transcribers .
G: Uh , seven of them are linguists .
G: One of them is a graduate student in psychology .
G: Um , Each I gave each of them , uh , their own data set .
G: Two of them have already finished the data sets .
G: And the meetings run , you know , let 's say an hour . Sometimes as man much as an hour and a half .
E: How big is the data set ?
G: Oh , it 's what I mean is one meeting .
G: Each each person got their own meeting .
E: Ah , OK .
G: I didn't want to have any conflicts of , you know , of of when to stop transcribing this one
G: or G: So I wanted to keep it clear whose data were whose ,
G: and and and so E: Uh - huh .
G: And , uh , meetings , you know , I think that they 're they go as long as a almost two hours in some in some cases .
G: So , you know , that means G: you know , if we 've got two already finished and they 're working on G: Uh , right now all eight of them have differe uh , uh , additional data sets . That means potentially as many as ten might be finished by the end of the month .
G: Hope so .
E: Wow .
G: But the pre - segmentation really helps a huge amount .
C: OK .
G: And , uh , also Dan Ellis 's innovation of the , uh the multi - channel to here really helped a r a lot in terms of clearing clearing up h hearings that involve overlaps .
G: But , um ,
G: just out of curiosity I asked one of them how long it was taking her , one of these two who has already finished her data set .
G: She said it takes about , uh , sixty minutes transcription for every five minutes of real time .
G: So it 's about twelve to one ,
G: which is what we were thinking .
H: or
H: Yep .
G: It 's well in the range .
H: It 's pretty good .
G: OK . Uh , these still , when they 're finished , um , that means that they 're finished with their pass through . They still need to be edited and all
G: but But it 's word level , speaker change , the things that were mentioned .
G: OK , now I wanted to mention the , um , teleconference I had with , uh , Jonathan Fiscus .
G: We spoke for an hour and a half
H: Hmm .
G: and , um , had an awful lot of things in common .
G: He , um , um , he in indicated to me that they 've that he 's been ,
G: uh , looking , uh , uh , spending a lot of time with G: I 'm not quite sure the connection ,
G: but spending a lot of time with the ATLAS system .
G: And I guess that I mean , I I need to read up on that .
G: And there 's a web site that has lots of papers .
G: But it looks to me like that 's the name that has developed for the system that Bird and Liberman developed <comment> for the annotated graphs approach .
H: Mm - hmm .
G: So what he wants me to do
G: and what we what we will do and uh , is to provide them with the u already transcribed meeting
G: for him to be able to experiment with in this ATLAS System .
G: And they do have some sort of software ,
G: at least that 's my impression , related to ATLAS
G: and that he wants to experiment with taking our data
G: and putting them in that format , and see how that works out .
G: I I I explained to him in in detail the , uh , conventions that we 're using here in this in this word level transcript .
G: And , um ,
G: you know , I I explained , you know , the reasons that that we were not coding more elaborately
G: and and the focus on reliability .
G: He expressed a lot of interest in reliability .
G: It 's like he 's he 's really up on these things .
G: He 's he 's very G: Um , independently he asked , " well what about reliability ? "
G: So , he 's interested in the consistency of the encoding and that sort of thing .
G: OK , um A: Sorry ,
A: can you explain what the ATLAS A: I 'm not familiar with this ATLAS system .
G: Well , you know , at this point I think G: Uh , well Adam 's read more in more detail than I have on this .
G: I need to acquaint myself more with it .
G: But , um , there there is a way of viewing G: Uh , whenever you have coding categories , um , and you 're dealing with uh , a taxonomy , then you can have branches that that have alternative , uh , choices that you could use for each each of them .
G: And it just ends up looking like a graphical representation .
H: Is is