G: That if if people have something in front of them B: I 'd be sort of cool .
B: I mean , it would B: Yeah .
B: That w shouldn't be hard for G: Yeah .
G: Do it on pilots or laptops or something .
G: OK , if something 's important everyone clap .
A: OK . So CrossPads , we 're just gonna try it and see what happens .
D: OK .
G: Yeah . Um , I think that 's right .
D: OK .
A: OK .
A: The note - taking A: So , I I think that this is gonna be useful .
A: So if we record data I will definitely ask for it .
A: So , I j I think we should just say this is not we don't want to put any extra burden on people , but if they happen to generate minutes , could could they send it to us ?
G: Yeah .
G: Oh , OK . That 's fine .
G: Absolutely .
D: Mm - hmm .
C: Mm - hmm .
A: And then G: Yeah . What I was gonna say is that I don't want to ask people to do something they wouldn't normally do in a meeting .
G: It 's ver I just want to keep away from the artificiality .
G: But I think it definitely
D: Mm - hmm .
G: if they exist .
G: And then Jane 's idea of summarization afterward I think is not a bad one .
G: Um ,
G: picking out basically to let you pick out keywords ,
G: um , and , uh , construct queries .
D: So who who does this summarization ?
H: Yeah , I 'm thinking that G: People in the meeting .
H: Yeah .
G: You know , just at at the end of the meeting , before you go ,
H: Uh - huh .
B: Without hearing each other though , probably .
G: go around the table .
E: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
G: Yeah .
F: Or even just have one or two people stay behind .
G: Ugh .
G: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
E: People with radio mikes can go into separate rooms and continue recording without hearing each other .
E: That 's the nice thing .
B: Well , then you should try them a few weeks later
H: How fascinating .
B: and G: And see score them ?
B: They have all these memory experiments about how little you actually retain
E: That 's right .
E: Well , that 's the interesting thing , though .
B: and wasn't E: If we do if we collect four different summaries , you know , we 're gonna get all this weird data about how people perceive things differently .
G: Oh .
G: Hmm .
E: It 's like <comment> this is not what we meant to research .
B: Right , right .
D: Oh .
H: That could be very interesting .
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
F: Hmm .
H: Yeah .
D: Ru
A: But but again , like the CrossPads , I don't think I would base a lot of stuff on it ,
G: I d
G: yeah , I don't know how you would do it , though .
G: Mm - hmm .
A: because I think I know when I see the the clock coming near the end of the meeting , I 'm like inching towards the door .
G: Running to G: Yeah ,
G: fff !
A: So ,
E: Hmm .
A: you 're probably not gonna get a lot of people wanting to do this .
H: Well , I think if G: Maybe e Is email easier ?
G: I mean , I when you first said do do it , um , spoken , what I was thinking is , oh then people have to come up
H: Mm - hmm .
G: and you have to hook them up to the recorder .
G: So , if they 're already here I think that 's good ,
G: but if they 're not already here for I 'd rather do email .
A: Right .
H: Yeah , I 'd just try Well , however the least intrusive and and quickest way is ,
G: I 'm much faster typing than anything else .
H: and th and closest to the meeting time too ,
H: cuz people will start to forget it as soon as they l leave .
G: Yeah .
A: Yeah . I think that I think doing it orally at the end of the meeting is the best time .
G: I don't know .
G: At H: Mm - hmm .
A: I just don't A: because they 're kind of a captive audience .
G: Mm - hmm .
A: Once they leave ,
A: you know , forget it .
A: But but i
G: Yeah , read the digits ,
G: do the summary .
A: Right .
A: But , uh , I don't think that they 'll necessarily you 'll you 'll get many people willing to stay .
D: Hmm .
H: w
A: But , you know , if you get even one H: I would s
D: Well , I think it 's like the note - taking thing ,
H: Yeah .
D: that that y that you can't certainly can't require it
D: or people aren't gonna want to do this .
D: But but if there 's some cases where they will , then it would be helpful .
H: And I 'm also wondering , couldn't that be included in the data sample
F: Hmm .
H: so that you could increase the num you know , the words that are , uh , recognized by a particular individual ?
H: If you could include the person 's meeting stuff and also the person 's summary stuff , maybe that would be uh ,
E: Yeah .
H: an ad addition to their database .
E: It 's kind of nice .
E: Yeah .
D: Hmm .
H: Under the same acoustic circumstance ,
H: cuz if they just walk next door with their set - up , nothing 's changed ,
E: Right .
H: just F: So I have a question about queries ,
G: God , that 's bugging me .
F: which is , um ,
H: You turn G: Can we turn that light off ?
F: uh G: If can we turn that just that that let H: Uh , let the record show the light is flickering .
D: The fl the fluorescent light is flickering .
F: I don't know .
A: Yeah .
G: Yeah , there 's a D: Yeah .
B: Oh , it is it is like OK .
G: Very annoying .
A: Yeah .
F: There you go .
G: Oh , much better .
F: OK .
C: Oh , yeah .
D: Yeah .
F: Good .
A: For a little while I thought it was just that I was really tired .
C: That 's better .
G: Too much caffeine .
A: That and y <comment> Too much caffeine and really tired ,
A: but then I thought " no , maybe that 's real " .
D: OK .
F: So ,
G: I thought it was the projector for a moment .
G: It was like , " what 's going on ? "
D: Yeah .
F: the question I had about queries was , um , so what we 're planning to do is have people look at the summaries and then generate queries ?
G: We we 've just been talking , how do we generate queries ?
F: Are are we gonna try and o
F: Yeah .
G: And so that was one suggestion .
F: Well , I mean ,
F: so , the question I had is is have we given any thought to how we would generate queries automatically given a summary ?
F: I mean , I think that 's a whole research topic un unto itself ,
D: Mmm .
F: so that it may not be a feasible thing .
F: But F: n
E: Hello .
E: Dan here .
D: Yeah .
B: Shouldn't Landay and his group be in charge of figuring out how to do this ?
B: I mean , this is an issue that goes a little bit beyond where we are right now .
E: OK .
B: They 're the expert
E: Mari ?
A: Yeah ?
E: Someone wants to know when you 're getting picked up .
E: Is someone picking you up ?
A: Um , what 's our schedule ?
D: Well , you still wanted to talk with Liz .
A: Let 's see ,
A: you and I need dis Uh ,
D: And you and I need to
A: no , we did the Liz talk .
D: Oh , oh . You already did the Liz talk .
A: Yeah .
D: OK .
A: So so that was the prosody thing .
B: We - I don't remember it .
A: Um , we need to finish the D: Oh , OK .
A: It 's already four - fifteen .
B: I have like no recall memory .
D: Yeah .
A: Uh , after .
A: We need to finish this discussion , and you
A: and I need a little time for wrap - up and quad chart .
A: So ,
G: And what ?
D: I 'm at your disposal .
A: um D: So , up to you .
A: Um , what what 's the plan for this discussion ?
A: We should D: Um , I think we should be able to wind up in another half - hour or something ,
G: At least . Yeah .
D: you think ?
G: m i Even if that much ?
A: Uh , less .
G: Less .
A: Yeah .
D: Less ?
A: So , I think B: It 's interesting that he 's got , like , this discussion free
D: Well , I mean , we still haven't talked about the action items from here and so on .
A: Action A: Yeah .
A: So ,
B: yet it 's separate .
D: And A: e e why don't you say five - thirty ?
E: OK , five - thirty .
A: I don't A: Is that OK ?
A: We 'll probably hit horrible traffic .
E: Sounds E: OK .
E: h Thanks , bye .
A: That 's not a lot of time ,
E: That 's that .
A: but D: Yeah .
G: Well , in answer to " is it Landay 's problem ? " ,
G: um , he doesn't have a student who 's interested right now in doing anything .
G: So he has very little manpower .
G: Um , there 's very little allocated for him
G: and also he 's pretty focused on user interface .
G: So I don't think he wants to do information retrieval ,
G: query generation , that sort of stuff .
D: Yeah , well there 's gonna be these student projects that can do some things
D: but it can't be , yeah , very deep .
D: u I I actually think that that , uh , again , just as a bootstrap , <comment> if we do have something like summaries , then having the people who are involved in the meetings themselves , who are cooperative and willing to do yet more , come up with with with queries , uh , could at least give give Landay an idea of the kind of things that people might want to know .
D: I mean , ye
D: Right ?
D: If he doesn't know anything about the area , and the people are talking about and and , uh B: But the people will just look at the summaries or the minutes and re and sort of back - generate the queries .
B: That 's what I 'm worried about .
B: So you might as well just give him the summaries .
D: Mm - hmm .
B: And D: Maybe .
F: Well , I 'm not sure I 'm not sure that 's a solved problem .
G: y Well , but I think F: Right ?
B: Oh , OK .
F: Of how to how to generate queries from a B: How to do this
G: I , uh D: Yeah .
B: from the summary .
F: That was sort of what my question was aimed towards .
B: So what you want to h to do is , people who were there , who later see , uh , minutes and s put in summary form , which is not gonna be at the same time as the meeting . There 's no way that can happen . Are we gonna later go over it
A: Hmm .
G: Right .
D: Right .
B: and , like , make up some stuff to which these notes would be an answer ,
B: or or a deeper B: Yeah .
G: Or or just a memory refresher .
B: I mean B: But that 's done off they have to do that off - line .
G: Yep . I agree .
H: I 'm also wondering if we could ask the the people a a question
B: You
H: which would be " what was the most interesting thing you got out of this meeting ? "
H: Becau - in terms of like informativeness ,
B: That 's a good one .
H: it might be , you know , that the summary would would not in even include what the person thought was the most interesting fact .
D: I would think that would be the most likely thing .
B: Dan doesn't know what sex he is .
E: Yeah , really .
A: But actually I would say that 's a better thing to ask than have them summarize the meeting .
H: I think you get two different types of information .
A: You get two A: Yeah , that 's true .
E: Yeah .
H: Because you get , like , the general structure of important points and what the what the meeting was about .
D: Hey .
B: Ah
D: Yeah .
G: We 're still here .
H: So you get the general structure , the important points of what the meeting was about with the summary .
H: But with the " what 's the most interesting thing you learned ? " H: Uh , so the fact that , uh , I know that Transcriber uses Snack is something that I thought was interesting
B: Going to see the kids .
E: You you can keep it on .
H: and that and that Dan worked on on that .
H: So I thought that was really H: you know .
H: So , I mean , you could ge pick up some of the micro items that wouldn't even occur as major headings
A: Mm - hmm .
H: but could be very informative .
A: Yeah , that 's actually a really good idea .
H: I think it wouldn't be too , uh , uh , cost - intensive either .
H: You know , I mean , it 's like something someone can do pretty easily on the spur of the moment .
C: Are you thinking about just asking one participant or all of them ?
G: As many are willing to do it .
C: Make it a voluntary thing ,
E: Yeah .
E: Cuz you 'll get cuz you 'll get very different answers from everybody , right ?
C: and then C: Yeah . That 's why I was wondering .
E: So G: Well , maybe one thing we could do is for the meetings we 've already done G: I mean , I we didn't take minutes and we don't have summaries .
G: But , uh , people could , like , listen to them a little bit and generate some queries .
H: Yeah .
G: Of course Jane doesn't need to .
G: I 'm sure you have that meeting memorized by now .
E: Yeah .
A: But actually it would be an easy thing to just go around the room and say what was the most interesting thing you learned ,
G: Mmm .
H: Yeah .
H: Yeah .
A: for those pe people willing to stay .
H: And that I think it would pick up the micro - structure , the H: some some of the little things that would be hidden .
A: And and that might be something people are willing to stay for .
D: Boy , I I don't know how we get at this H: That would be interesting .
G: Or want to get up and leave .
C: Yeah , but when you go around the room you might just get the effect that somebody says something
C: and then you go around the room and they say " yeah , me too , I agree . "
G: Me too , me too , me too .
D: Yeah .
E: On the other hand people might try and come up with different ones , right ?
A: That 's fine .
C: So D: Well E: They might say " oh , I was gonna say that one
G: Well ,
E: but now I have to think of something else " .
G: you have the other thing , that that they know why we 're doing it .
G: We 'll I mean , we 'll we 'll be telling them that the reason we 're trying to do this is is to d generate queries in the future ,
G: so try to pick things that other people didn't say .
D: It 's gonna take some thought .
D: I mean ,
D: It seemed  The kind of , uh , interest that I had in this thing initially was , uh , that i basically the form that you 're doing something else later ,
A: Mm - hmm .
D: and you want to pick up something from this meeting related to the something else .
D: So it 's really the imp the the list of what 's important 's in the something else
E: Mmm .
A: Right .
D: rather than the D: And it might be something minor of minor importance to the meeting .
G: Right .
C: Mm - hmm .
D: Uh , in fact if if it was really major , if it 's the thing that really stuck in your head , then you might not need to go back and and and check on it even .
D: So it 's it 's that you 're trying to find <comment> You 're you 've now D: You weren't interested D: Say I I said " well , I wasn't that much interested in dialogue ,
D: I 'm more of an acoustics person " .
E: Right .
D: But but thr three months from now if for some reason I get really interested in dialogue , and I 'm " well what is what was that part that that that , uh , Mari was saying ? "
G: Yeah , like Jim Bass says " add a few lines on dialogue in your next perf "
A: Uh D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
A: Yeah .
D: And then I 'm trying to fi I mean , that 's that 's when I look in general when I look things up most , is when it 's something that didn't really stick in my head the first time around
D: and but for some <comment> new reason I 'm I 'm I 'm interested in in in the old stuff .
G: But that that 's gonna be very hard to generate .
D: So , I don't I don't know .
A: Well , I That 's hard to generate
F: Do we C: Mm - hmm .
A: and and I think that 's half of what i I would use it for .
A: But I also a lot of times um , make you know , think to myself " this is interesting ,
D: Mm - hmm .
A: I 've gotta come back and follow up on it " .
D: Mm - hmm .
D: Mm - hmm .
A: So , things that I think are interesting , um , I would be , uh , wanting to do a query about .
A: And also , I like the idea of going around the room ,
A: because if somebody else thought something was interesting , I 'd kind of want to know about it
A: and then I 'd want to follow up on it .
E: Hmm .
D: Yeah . That that might get at some of what I was D: I was concerned about , uh , being interested in something later that w uh , I didn't consider to be important the first time ,
D: which for me is actually the dominant thing ,
D: because if I thought it was really important it tends to stick more than if I didn't ,
D: but some new task comes along that makes me want to look up .
G: But G: But what 's interesting to me may not b have been interesting to you .
D: Yeah . So having multiple people might get at some of that .
G: By so by going around G: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
G: Yeah , I I think you can't get at all of it ,
G: right ?
D: Yeah .
G: W we just need to start somewhere .
D: Yeah , and this is a starting point .
F: The question the question then is h h how much bias do we introduce by you know , introduce by saying , you know , this was important now
H: Uh - huh .
F: and , you know , maybe tha something else is important later ?
D: Mm - hmm .
F: I mean , does it does the bias matter ?
F: I I don't know .
F: I mean , uh , that 's , I guess , a question for you guys .
F: But H: Well , and and one thing , we we 're saying " important " and we 're saying " interesting " .
H: And and those those can be two different things .
F: Uh , yeah , yeah .
F: Sure , sure .
A: Mm - hmm .
F: But I I I guess that 's the question , really , is that I mean ,
H: Mm - hmm .
D: W
F: does building queries based on what 's important now introduce an irreversible bias on being able to do what Morgan wants to do later ?
H: OK , good .
D: Well , irreversible .
F: That 's that 's H: Yeah .
D: I I I mean , I guess what I what I I keep coming back to in my own mind is that , um , the soonest we can do it , we need to get up some kind of system
F: Right .
D: so that people who 've been involved in the meeting can go back later ,
D: even if it 's a poor system in some ways ,
D: and , uh and ask the questions that they actually want to know .
D: If you know , if uh , as soon as we can get that going at any kind of level , then I think we 'll have a much better handle on what kind of questions people want to ask than in any anything we do before that .
D: But obviously we have to bootstrap somehow ,
F: Sure .
A: Right .
D: and H: Mm - hmm .
F: I agree .
A: Right .
H: I will say that that I I chose " interesting "
H: because I think it includes also " important "
H: in some cases .
H: But , um , I I I feel like the summary gets at a different type of information .
F: I think " important " can often be uninteresting .
E: Mmm .
A: Mmm .
H: Well , and and also G: Hmm .
E: And " interesting " is more interesting than " important " .
H: i it puts a lot of burden on the person to to evaluate .
H: You know , I think inter " interesting " is is non - threatening in A: OK - OK .
H: Yeah .
A: In the interest of , um ,
H: Yeah .
G: Importance ?
A: generati <comment> generating an interesting summary , <comment> um H: Mm - hmm .
H: Yeah .
A: No , i in the interest of generating some minutes here ,
A: uh , and also moving on to action items and other things ,
A: let me just go through the things that I wrote down as being important ,