C: Mm - hmm .
B: Oh .
B: Does this does this make sense to you guys ?
B: It I mean you 're you 're doing the the interaction
B: but it seemed to me that what we ought to do is come up with a uh , something where you , um B: And I I don't know who 's mok working most closely on it .
B: Probably Johno .
B: OK .
B: Uh , take what they have ,
B: send it to everybody saying " this is what they have ,
B: this is what we think we should add " ,
B: OK ?
B: and then have a d a an iteration within our group saying " Hmm , well "
B: OK ?
B: And get our best idea of what we should add .
C: Mm - hmm .
B: And then go back to them .
B: Is i
B: or , I don't know
B: does this make sense to you ?
B: Or
C: Yeah . Especially if we want C: Sort of , what I my feeling was eh we we sort of reserved something that has a r eh an OK label .
C: That 's th that was my th first sort of step .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: I w
C: No matter how we want to call it , this is sort of our playground .
C: And if we get something in there that is a structure elaborate and and and and and complex enough to to to maybe enable a whole simulation , one of these days , that would be u the the perfect goal .
B: Right .
B: Right .
B: That 's right .
B: So .
B: So , Yeah .
B: The problem isn't the short ra range optimization .
B: It 's the sort of o one or two year kind of thing .
B: OK . What are the thl class of things we think we might try to do in a year or two ?
B: How how would we try to characterize those
B: and what do we want to request now that 's leave enough space to do all that stuff ?
C: Mm - hmm .
C: Yep .
B: Right .
B: And that re that requires some thought .
C: Yep .
B: And so that sounds like a great thing to do as the priority item
B: um , as soon as we can do it .
C: Yep .
B: So y so you guys will send to the rest of us um  a version of um , this ,
B: and the uh , description A: With sugge yeah , suggested improvements
A: and B: Well b
B: Yeah .
B: So , the the uh Not everyone uh , reads German ,
B: so if you 'd
B: um
A: Mmm .
B: tu uh , tur change the description to , uh , English
A: OK .
B: and , um ,
B: Then then ,
B: yeah . Then , with some sug s suggestions about where where do we go from here ?
B: Uh , this and this , of course , was just the  action end .
A: OK .
B: Uh , at some point we 're going to have to worry about the language end .
B: But for the moment just uh , t for this class of of things , we might want to try to encompass .
B: And A: Then the scope of this is beyond Approach and Vis - or Vista .
B: Oh , yeah , yeah yeah yeah .
A: Yeah , yeah .
B: This is this is everything that that , um ,  you know , um we might want to do in the next couple years .
A: Yeah , yeah .
A: So what would C: Hmm ?
A: OK .
B: We don't I mean , that 's an issue .
B: We don't know what , entirely .
A: Uh , yeah .
A: but I 'm just A: But the A: Yeah , OK .
A: So I just A: this XML stuff here just has to do with Source - Path - Goal type stuff ,
A: in terms of traveling through Heidelberg .
C: Hmm .
B: Right .
A: Or travel , specifically .
A: So , but this O Is the domain greater than that ?
B: No .
B: I think I think the i the idea is that A: OK .
B: Oh . It 's beyond Source - Path - Goal ,
B: but I think we don't need to get beyond it @ @ <comment> tourists in Heidelberg .
A: OK .
B: It seems to me we can get all the complexity we want in actions and in language without going outside of tourists in Heidelberg .
B: OK ?
B: But you know , i depending on what people are interested in , one could have , uh , tours ,
B: one could have um , explanations of why something is is , you know , why why was this done ,
B: or B: I mean , no there 's no end
B: to the complexity you can build into the  uh , what a tourist in Heidelberg might ask .
A: Mmm .
B: So , at least unless somebody else wants t to suggest otherwise I think the general domain we don't have t to uh , broaden .
B: That is , tourists in Heidelberg .
B: And if there 's something somebody comes up with that can't be done that way , then , sure .
B: W we 'll we 'll look at that ,
B: but uh
B: I 'd be s I I 'd be surprised at B: if there 's any  important issue that that B: And , um B: I mean if if you want to uh , push us into reference problems , that would be great .
F: OK .
B: OK , so this is his specialty is reference ,
C: Mm - hmm .
B: and you know , what what are these things referring to ?
B: Not only anaphora ,
B: but , uh , more generally the , uh this whole issue of , uh , referring expressions ,
B: and , what is it that they 're actually dealing with in the world ?
C: Mm - hmm .
B: And , again , this is li in the databa this is also pretty well formed
B: because there is an ontology ,
B: and the database , and stuff .
B: So it isn't like , um , you know , the Evening Star or stuff like that .
F: Right .
B: I i it B: All the entities do have concrete reference .
F: Right .
B: Although th the To get at them from a language may not be trivial .
F: Right .
B: There aren't really deep mysteries about um , what w what things the system knows about .
F: Right .
F: And you have both proper names and descriptions
F: and y and you can ask for it .
B: All those things .
B: Yeah .
C: Mm - hmm .
B: You have proper names , and descriptions .
F: Right .
F: OK .
B: And a l and a lot and and anaphora , and pronouns ,
C: Nuh .
F: Right .
B: and all those things .
F: Right .
C: Now , we hav the the whole Unfortunately , the whole database is , uh , in German .
C: We have just commissioned someone to translate some bits of it ,
C: IE the e the shortest k the the more general descriptions of all the objects and , um , persons and events .
C: So , it 's a relational database with persons , events , and , um , objects .
C: And it 's it 's quite , um , there .
C: But did y I uh I think there will be great
C: because the reference problem really is not trivial , even if you have such a g well - defined world .
B: He knows .
C: Ah - he you are not , uh , throwing uh , uh , carrying owls to Athens .
A: Could you give me an example of a reference problem ?
A: so so l I can make it more concrete ?
C: Well  How do I get to the Powder - Tower ?
C: We sort of t think that our bit in this problem is interesting ,
C: but , just to get from Powder - Tower to an object I ID in a database is also not really trivial .
F: Or or if you take something even more scary , um , " how do I get to the third building after the Tower ?
F: the Ple - Powder - Tower ? "
A: Mmm .
F: Uh , you need some mechanism for
B: Yeah .
B: Or , you know , the church across from City Hall ,
B: or A: Or the re the restaurant where they wear lederhosen ?
C: Or the
F: Right .
A: Or is that B: Yeah , that would be fine .
F: Right .
A: OK .
B: Yeah .
F: Right .
C: O or or tower , or this tower , or that building , or E: Uniquely .
C: hmm ?
A: OK .
B: Or you can say " how " you know , " how do I get back ? "
A: Trying to A: Yeah , yeah .
B: OK .
B: And , again , it 's just a question of which of these things , uh , people want to dive into .
B: What , uh , I think I 'm gonna try to do ,
B: and I guess , pwww !
B: let 's say that by the end of spring break , I 'll try to come up with some general story about , um , construction grammar ,
B: and what constructions we 'd use
B: and how all this might fit together .
B: There 's this whole framework problem that I 'm feeling really uncomfortable about .
B: And I haven't had a chance to think about it seriously .
B: But I I want to I want to do that early , rather than late .
B: And you and I will probably have to talk about this some .
C: u u u u
C: That 's what strikes me , that we sort of C: the de g uh , small C: Something , uh , maybe we should address one of these days , is to  That most of the work people actually always do is look at some statements ,
C: and and analyze those .
C: Whether it 's abstracts or newspapers and stuff like this .
B: Hmm .
C: But the whole i is it is it really relevant that we are dealing mostly with , sort of , questions ?
C: Uh , you know B: Oh , yeah ?
B: Well , I mean
B: yeah , I d
C: And this is It seems to me that we should maybe at least spend a session or or brainstorm a little bit about whether that l this is special case in that sense .
D: Mm - hmm .
C: Um ,
C: I don't know .
C: You know Did we ever find m metaphorical use in in questions in in that sense , really ?
B: Yeah .
B: You will .
C: And how soon ,
C: I don't know .
B: Oh , yeah .
B: I mean , uh , we could take all the standard metaphor examples and make question versions of them .
B: OK .
C: " Who got kicked out of France ? "
F: Muh
C: Nuh .
B: Yeah , or , you know . " Wh - why is he why is he pushing for promotion ? "
F: Right .
B: or , " who 's pushing proof "
C: Nuh .
B: er , just pick pick any of them
B: and just do the eh C: Mm - hmm .
B: So I don't I don't think , uh , it 's at all difficult Uh , to convert them to question forms that really exist and people say all the time ,
B: um B: And sort of we don't know how to handle them , too .
B: Right ?
B: I mean , it 's B: I d It B: We don't know how to handle the declarative forms , @ @ <comment> really ,
B: and , then , the interrogative forms , ah - oh .
B: Uh .
D: Ooo !
B: Yeah .
B: Nancy , it looked like you were s
E: Oh . it 's just that that the goals are g very different to cases E: So we had this problem last year when we first thought about this domain , actually ,
E: was that most of the things we talked about are our story understanding .
E: Uh , we 're gonna have a short discourse
B: Right .
E: and the person talking is trying to , I don't know , give you a statement and tell you something .
E: And here , it 's th
C: Help you create a mental model , blah - blah - blah .
C: Yeah .
E: Yea - eh y Yeah , I guess so .
B: Yes .
E: And then here , y you are j uh , the person is getting information
E: and they or may not be following some larger plan , you know , that we have to recognize or , you know , infer .
E: And th th the their discourse patterns probably <nonvocalsound> don't follo follow quite as many logical connec
B: Right . No , I think that 's one of things that 's interesting ,
E: Yeah .
B: is is in this sort of over - arching story we we worked it out for th as you say , this the storytelling scenario .
E: Mm - hmm .
E: Mm - hmm .
B: And I think it 's really worth thinking through  what it looks like .
E: Mm - hmm .
B: What is the simspec mean , et cetera .
E: M
E: Right . Cuz for a while we were thinking , " well , how can we change the , um , data to sort of illicit tha illicit , um , actions that are more like what we are used to ? "
E: But obviously we would rather , you know , try to figure out what 's what 's , you know B: Well , I don't know .
B: I mean , maybe maybe that 's what we 'll do is is s u e
B: We can do anything we want with it .
E: Yep .
B: I mean , once we have fulfilled these requirements ,
E: Mmm Mm - hmm .
E: Mm - hmm .
B: OK , and the one for next uh , summer is just half done
B: and then the other half is this , um , " generation thing " which we think isn't much different .
E: Mm - hmm .
B: So once that 's done , then all the rest of it is , uh , sort of , you know , what we want to do for the research .
B: And we can w we can do all sorts of things that don't fit into their framework at all .
B: Th - there 's no reason why we 're c we 're constrained to do that .
E: Mm - hmm .
B: If we can use all the , uh , execution engines , then we can , you know , really <nonvocalsound> try things that would be too too much pain to do ourselves .
E: Mm - hmm .
B: But there 's no obligation on any of this .
B: So , if we want to turn it into u understan standing stories about Heidelberg , we can do that .
B: I mean , that would just be a t a um C: Or , as a matter of fact , we need  and if we if we ' r eh take a ten year perspective , we need to do that ,
C: because
C: w
C: e w a Assuming we have this , um , we we ta in that case we actually do have these wonderful stories , and historical anecdotes ,
B: Yeah .
C: and knights jumping out of windows ,
E: Mmm .
C: and - and - and <comment> <comment> tons of stuff .
C: So , th the database is huge ,
C: and if we want to answer a question on that , we actually have to go one step before that , and understand that .
E: Mm - hmm .
C: In order to e do sensible information extraction .
E: Yeah .
E: Mm - hmm .
C: And so ,
B: You might , yeah .
F: Mwa
C: um , this has been a a a Deep Map research issue that was is is part of the unresolved , and to - do 's , and something for the future , is how can we sort of run our our text , our content , through a machine that will enable us , later , to retrieve or answer e questions more sensibly ?
F: Mm - hmm .
E: Mm - hmm .
E: Mmm .
B: Right .
B: Anyway .
B: S
B: Who 's going ?
F: So , uh So , uh , I was just going to ask ,
F: um , so ,
F: what is the the basic thing that that you are , um , obligated to do , um , uh , by the summer before w uh y c we can move B: Ah !
B: OK .
B: So eh Yeah .
B: So , what happened is ,
B: there 's this , eh , uh B: Robert was describing
B: the There 's two packages
B: there 's a , uh , quote parser ,
B: there 's a particular piece of this big system ,
B: which , in German , uh , takes these t sentence templates and produces XML structures .
F: Right .
B: And one of our jobs was to make the English equivalent of that .
B: That , these guys did in a in a day .
F: Right .
F: Right .
B: The other thing is , at the other end , roughly at the same level , there 's something that takes , uh , X M L structures , produces an output XML structure
B: which is instructions for the generator .
F: Right .
B: OK ?
B: And then there 's a language generator ,
B: and then after that a s a synthesizer that goes from an XML structure to , uh , language generation , to actual specifications for a synthesizer .
B: Eh , but again , there 's one module in which there 's one piece that we have to convert to English .
F: Right .
F: Right .
F: Got it .
B: Is that B: OK .
B: And that But as I say , this is all along was viewed as a kind of  a m a minor thing ,
B: necessary , but but not F: Right .
B: OK ?
F: Right .
B: And much more interesting is the fact that , as part of doing this , we we are , you know , inheriting this system that does all sort of these other things .
F: That 's great !
F: Right .
B: Not precisely what we want ,
B: and that 's  that 's wh where it it gets difficult .
B: And I I don't pretend to understand yet what I think we really ought to do .
C: OK .
C: So , e enough of that ,
C: but I , uh , um ,
C: mmm ,
C: the e sort of , Johno and I will take up that responsibility ,
C: and , um , get a first draft of that .
C: Now , we have um just , I think two more short things .
B: OK .
C: Um , y you guys sort of started fighting , uh , on the Bayes - net " Noisy - OR " front ?
D: Hmm .
D: Yeah , I thought I should , um , talk a little bit about that ,
D: because that might be a good , uh , sort of architecture to have , in general for , uh , problems with , you know , multiple inputs to a node .
B: Good ! OK .
B: Good .
B: And what 's the other one ?
B: so that just we know what the d agenda is ?
C: Um , the Wu paper ,
C: I think maybe B: Oh , yeah .
B: I 've got a couple new Wu papers as well .
B: Uh , so I I 've been in contact with Wu ,
B: so , probably let 's put that off till I I till I understand better , uh , what he 's doing .
B: It 's just a little embarrassing
B: cause all this was in his thesis
B: and I was on his thesis committee ,
B: and , so , I r really knew this at one time .
F: Ugh .
B: But , I I It 's not only uh Is Part of what I haven't figured out yet is is how all this goes together .
B: So I 'll dig up some more stuff from Dekai .
B: And so why don't we just do the , uh D: OK .
D: So D: should I Is there a white board here that I can use ?
B: Yeah . You could D: Uh E: Yeah .
D: Or shall I just use this ?
B: squealing sound ?
B: It 's probably just as easy .
B: I
F: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
A: You can put the microphone in your pocket .
D: Hey !
A: I was envying you and your pocket
A: cause I don't have one .