C: Right .
D: but they 're pretty rare D: those things , the f
E: Mm - hmm .
D: the really bad mistakes that they make are pretty rare
D: I think , so .
E: I I OK - So , in terms of like when you 're going through the Tigerfish transcripts , you don't find a lot of these kinds of extreme cases ?
D: Not this t t
C: Not so much . No .
E: OK .
D: I mean A: Mmm , not " twosome gruesome " .
D: No , not " twosome gruesome " .
D: Sometimes ,
D: but they tend to be pretty good about parentheses .
C: Mm - hmm .
E: Mm - hmm .
E: Good . Good to hear .
A: Yeah .
A: Yeah , sometimes they p they usually put them in prethen parentheses ,
A: and you think to yourself , " You were way off ,
D: Yeah .
A: but at least you knew you were way off . "
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
E: Mm - hmm .
D: Exactly .
F: Yeah . I just wonder , like , what influences them to think of " twosome gruesome " ,
E: Good .
F: like maybe this person just saw a horror movie or something ?
F: And ,
F: uh , this is the interpretation that came to mind or something ?
E: It 's Could be .
D: Yeah .
F: You know what I mean ?
F: Like , where would you get the word " gruesome " ?
D: I don't know .
F: You know , you just sort of pull it out of the air ?
D: Well , I mean , you get the " GR " from " groups " , I guess ,
F: Anyway .
D: but
F: Yeah .
A: Yeah .
D: I don't know where the rest of it came from .
A: Uh , " groups of " ,
A: " gruesome " .
C: g Group .
F: OK .
C: " Groups of " ,
C: " gruesome " .
A: You 've got the , uh , " S " in the middle .
C: Yeah . If you if for some reason they didn't hear the " F " , if they didn't hear the " fuh " , <comment> it might just sound like A: " Gruesome " .
C: Yeah , " grou " uh , " gruesuh " .
D: Yeah .
A: Yeah . It 's both labial at the end .
F: Mmm - hmm .
C: You know . And then you would kind of have to come up with some sort of consonant
D: " Groups of " C: and maybe it 's an " M " to you .
D: Well , also F: Right .
D: " Group of , groups of , groups of , group s "
C: " Fff " . <comment> Because also , I mean , " F " is " Fff " . <comment> is , um , " Fff " .
A: Gruesome groups of gruesome groups of
D: I wonder where the " P " went , though ?
C: Right . " Fff " . <comment> Because it 's A: Maybe the " P " wasn't pronounced very well ,
D: Yeah ?
F: " Pss " .
A: like " groups of "
C: Yeah , because it 's , um , bilabial too .
C: " Fff " . <comment> you know , you 'll
C: di uh , or interl interdental , " fff " .
A: Mm - hmm .
C: you know , it 's close enough , I guess , to " mmm " , <comment> you know .
D: Nnn , I guess .
C: You 're getting the closure of the lips .
C: So maybe that 's what they were do getting .
C: I don't know .
D: It 's possible .
B: Hmm .
A: Hmm .
E: Well , you know , there 's also this problem that they didn't have context to constrain the interpretation ,
D: Yeah .
A: Yeah .
E: cuz E: Yeah .
A: Yeah , that 's really hard ,
E: OK .
A: th to not be able to go and listen to the other channels and figure out the context of what it 's occurring in .
C: Yeah .
E: Yeah , when I 'm clearing the par parentheses , I find that very useful .
E: I I sometimes I try to just go through and pick up the parentheses ,
A: Yeah .
E: see if I can do it just by itself ,
E: but it it 's remarkable how sometimes something can be so totally opaque ,
E: and then you go back to , you know , the person 's previous utterance
E: or you go to the mixed channel ,
E: or you , uh , check on the other things
E: and suddenly it becomes perfectly clear .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: It 's very very surprising .
E: Very surprising .
C: Yeah .
E: Good .
F: But this other business , um , that you have at the bottom with people getting transcribed on another channel
E: Yes .
F: is , uh is much more common .
D: Is that what it 's about ?
D: I wasn't I couldn't u I don't know , for some reason that didn't make sense to me .
D: But th it 's about when things are transcribed on other channels than what they 're set on ?
F: Right .
D: OK .
F: And what 's always funny to me is when it 's th you know , they m mi miss the gender completely ,
F: like , you know , Morgan 'll be on Jane 's channel ,
F: or just something bizarre like that .
D: Yeah .
F: Um , so .
C: Well , maybe it 's because they don't realize that you 're supposed to sp
C: Do they ?
C: I mean , maybe they don't really realize that you 're supposed to split it up . Or something
C: like , they maybe think , " Well , I hear it just as clearly C: I hear this other person 's voice just as clearly
C: and I realize it 's not Jane ,
C: and I realize it 's not a female even ,
C: but , um , because it 's so clear on this channel , I 'm supposed to transcribe it . "
D: I 'm supposed to do it .
A: Mm - hmm .
D: h <comment> Yeah .
C: I I 'd imagine that 's p that might be what that is .
D: They probably don't even know how many people are at the meeting , or w anything .
E: Yeah , it 's really a an odd task in in a way
E: because they 're they have no clues at all about how dominant the speaker is on the channel they 're transcribing .
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
D: Yeah .
F: Mm - hmm .
E: And the pre - segmenter doesn't give them any or the information eith either .
E: I 'm I 'm sure that it 's because of the A: Yeah .
D: Wow .
F: Yeah .
D: We 're we 're really spoiled , then , with our interface here ,
B: Mmm .
F: Fancy - schmancy .
D: right ?
E: Yeah .
D: I mean s it 's very useful .
F: If I was gonna make just a guess , though , from my experience it would seem like the men get mis um ,
E: Yes .
F: the men get moved onto other channels , maybe more frequently .
F: And it 's just probably cuz they have deeper voices
F: and they 're getting picked up on more channels , um , than their own channel .
E: That would make that would make some sense .
D: Yeah .
F: Um , for w you know , it 's an acoustic thing .
E: OK .
D: Or they just tend to sp peak <comment> louder , maybe ?
C: That 's true . They do they do say that m men 's voices c carry better .
F: Yeah .
C: I mean , that 's why they use , like , I think
C: who was telling me ?
C: Ian Maddieson was talking about this , that they use male voices in , um , in , um , airports .
E: Oh !
A: Hmm .
C: Because the acoustics of it it just fits into the hea a hearer 's range D: For announcements and things ?
C: Yeah , that 's th It fits into a hearer 's range of perception , um , better than a lot of female voices .
B: Hmm .
F: Hmm .
D: Hmm .
C: And so that 's why they use male voices .
C: We were just talking about that .
D: They should do that at BART , too ,
D: because sometimes it 's hard to hear .
E: I see .
B: And now they have those strange computerized voices that n
E: So
D: Yeah . Those are i a w actually probably just the computer problem
A: Hmm .
D: not the gender problem .
E: Huh .
E: So so this means that people with hearing problems would hear , uh , uh , one of these announcements better if it were a male voice then .
C: d Yeah , depending on their auditory , um , capabilities .
E: Uh - huh .
C: I mean , if their auditory capabilities , uh , have been , you know , um , squished down like in a certain place where it would be n easier for a person with normal , <comment> um , hearing to hear a male 's voice ,
C: um , like if I 'm saying if if they d if they had a some sort of , um , you know , damage to part of their brain that processes auditory information , then C: and , i uh , e i u
C: if that part of the brain normally codes for , you know , male voices , uh , in a normal hearer , <comment> then they might not be able to .
C: You know . Does that make sense ?
E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .
C: Like if that part is damaged .
C: So , but , um E: Selective .
C: but yeah , if I guess for most h hearers it 's just easier .
C: And it 's like a certain , uh , kind of , like , rough male voice too ,
C: kind of graspy C: raspy , I mean ,
F: Hmm .
B: Hmm .
A: Hmm .
C: apparently .
D: Hmm .
E: Is better ?
C: Is better .
E: Ah , it 's a wider band then .
E: Because of E: do you think it might be from the C: Yeah , I guess so .
E: She asked this question last time which was , um , whether our system here , the recording system , may have some of the same channel restr some sort of s channel restrictions , such as they ran across when they were looking at telephone , uh , transmissions at a certain point .
E: Cuz , you know , telephone transmissions , um , there 's some filtering going on .
E: You don't hear the full the full band of frequencies .
A: Mm - hmm .
D: Oh .
A: Right .
B: Hmm .
E: And , w uh v I asked c a couple of people and they c answer came back that C: It 's really interesting .
E: It was intere an interesting E: it 's reminded me because of the comment about noise ,
E: noise being sp really spreading frequencies across , uh , using frequencies across a broader spectrum .
C: Uh - huh .
D: Yeah .
E: So in a way , bandwidth can increase with some of these cases of distortion that we have .
E: But it 's n it 's not a useful kind of increase in frequency range .
C: Right . Yeah . I was just saying that it , like , you know , sometimes , um , if Remember I was saying , like , if there 's a discrepancy between fricatives , you know , like , um , " shuh " <comment> or " suh " <comment> will show up in a certain part of the spectrum ,
C: and and , uh , oftentimes the " fuh " <comment> is like knocked out of the spectrum by D: Yeah . By filtering or something ?
C: um , by filtering in some of the older phones .
A: Mm - hmm .
C: And that 's why , like he
B: Hmm .
D: So what was the answer here ?
D: It that 's not the case ?
E: Answer ?
C: That they don't E: That they that they don't .
E: We don't have a reduction in that direction .
D: Oh , OK .
C: Y right .
A: Oh .
D: Good .
E: That , uh , I mean , you know , one could have if one had cheaper microphones than we have ,
E: but we 've got good microphones
D: Mm - hmm .
A: Right .
E: and another there is sort of an upper limit set on our bandwidth by the sampling rate
E: but then that becomes E: So Adam 's ans that C: Mm - hmm .
E: then it becomes a matter of , Is that something that would be relevant to perceptual range .
E: And , I didn't really have the sense that it would .
C: I didn't get that from him , actually .
C: I felt like , um , he 's basically saying that for our for all intents and purposes with this , it 's covering whatever sounds are necessary to be covered , like everything .
E: Mm - hmm .
E: Mm - hmm .
E: Good . I I that was my impression also .
C: That 's that 's what I th
E: It wa so we don't have that kind of reduction like you have on telephones .
E: And actually in the work that they were doing with the telephone corpora , they did run into limitations
E: and uh , certain types that they when what their speech recognition approach
E: is because of the of the filtering .
F: Hmm .
E: I mean it does seem like when I hear these things , except for the distortion parts ,
E: where the volume 's too high , or th of course when the volume 's too low ,
E: but that 's a different problem ,
E: um , except for those cases , it seems to me that it really is as if the person were speaking in my ear .
E: I don't feel that it 's being reduced in any way .
D: Yeah .
B: Hmm .
F: Mm - hmm .
D: Yeah , that 's what it seems like .
C: Yeah . Yeah , I do too .
C: Yeah .
E: Yeah ?
E: And he was saying in the in the , uh , areas where you have clipping , where it 's recorded too high , and and it starts to saturate and you have trouble ,
C: Right .
E: um I thought that was very interesting .
E: So bandwidth then gets gets actually wider instead of narrower
E: because you have ,
E: um E: Uh - oh .
E: You have these y y you still have The frequencies are represented
E: but the energy distributions are thrown off ,
E: and , um , in fact you have also some additional frequencies .
E: So you end up with a wider bandwidth functionally ,
E: I mean C: Yeah . So , like , you were saying , like in the case of something with clipping ,
E: But not helpful for speech .
C: does it were you saying that , uh it it increases to or , expands to accommodate that ?
C: Or ,
E: No , technically , the bandwidth is wider than C: no ?
E: so it 's actually paradoxical in a way
E: cuz you usually think bandwidth better bandwidth is better .
C: Oh .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: But in the cases of of distortion than you can end up with ,
C: Right . Oh , OK . Yeah .
E: uh ,
C: I see what you 're saying .
E: a wider bandwidth which isn't useful in terms of understanding speech .
C: Right .
A: Right .
F: Hmm .
E: So .
D: I have a question .
E: Yes .
D: In the  some of the earlier meetings I guess , there was a lot of spikes ,
D: or what I called spikes .
E: Yes .
D: I was wondering what that is .
D: I don't even know if it 's relevant or useful to know ,
D: but I 'm just curious .
E: One source was , there was a problem with a connection
E: where the microphone went int went into a box D: Mm - hmm .
E: I was trying trying to think of this as prior to E: yes , it was prior to the wireless .
E: There was a particular connection which wasn't wireless ,
E: which was , um , mechanically bad in some some sense ,
D: Loose .
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: and if it got touched , it would s it would send an impulse ,
C: Oh .
B: Hmm .
E: i in al an uh an irrelevant non - wanted artifact .
D: Yeah .
A: Hmm .
D: Cuz those ones sometimes were extraordinarily bad and pai
C: Huh .
A: Painful .
A: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
E: I agree . Absolutely painful .
A: They were painful .
E: Exa - I agree .
C: Uh E: And that 's that 's th you know , I would watch the visual sis signal to avoid that .
A: Oh yeah .
D: Yeah ,
E: It 's like F: Yeah .
D: and like not listen to them .
C: I do remember those , actually .
A: And then you see it ,
A: and off with the headphones !
F: Yeah , you could see it coming and you 'd turn the volume down or something .
D: Or just uh s
C: Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . I remember I had one . One with that and it was just , al all the time .
D: Yeah . Or , like , skip it entirely .
D: Yeah .
A: Oh yeah .
C: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
E: Yeah .
C: Especially if they also got louder <comment> too , <comment> and they hit it ,
D: Y y yeah .
E: Oh !
C: it was just like " whoahh ! "
E: Yeah . That 's really awful .
E: You 've noticed that those have gotten better over the intervening ?
D: Yes . Absolutely .
A: Oh yeah . Mm - hmm .
C: Yes .
E: Good .
F: But sometimes you 'll see like something coming up
F: like , " Uh - oh .
F: Someone 's gonna cough really loudly " ,
F: and I could tell because of the way it looks !
D: Yeah .
F: Or " someone 's about to laugh really loudly " ,
D: And so you turn it down ?
A: Mm - hmm .
E: Oh .
F: um yeah ,
E: Yeah . Yeah , yeah .
F: and then you 're just sort you 've got like you know  you 're sort of like
A: Mm - hmm .
C: Take one off , or something .
F: Yeah .
D: No , a I think B: Hmm .
A: Yeah .
F: So unless there 's gonna be some speech in there , I don't think I need to listen that carefully .
D: I think that 's really important .
D: Yeah , I think that 's really important
F: Yeah .
D: because I generally have the volume turned up to above normal volume just so I can hear more clearly ,
F: So .
A: Mm - hmm . Yeah .
C: Right .
D: and if it 's like that for someone screeching into the microphone than it would be really painful .
F: Yeah .
C: Right .
F: You could h really hurt your ears . Yeah .
D: I think you could , yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
F: Oh , yeah .
E: I think so too .
B: Hmm .
F: So .
E: Yeah , I D: Yeah , that 's D: Especially we have really good headphones ,
E: when I realized D: like E: yeah , when I realized , I I meant to tell everyone to watch that visual signal
E: cuz that 's that 's saved me a bunch of times .
F: Gives some good clues ,
F: yeah .
D: Yeah , I mean , it 's very useful in like all senses
D: cuz F: Oh yeah . Yeah .
A: Yeah .
C: Oh , yeah .
E: Yeah .
D: It 's very good .
F: Sometimes it doesn't pick up backchannelling , though ,
F: and so sometimes you have to , um , try to listen D: No .
D: Or , turn up
F: there 's no visual
F: but F: Yeah , you have to the resolution ,
F: right ?
D: Yeah . Or , like A: Right .
E: It might be useful to to talk about the interface for for a bit ,
F: So .
E: in terms of what it is that you like particularly , and what you don't ,
A: Mm - hmm .
E: and , uh , that kind of thing .
A: You know what I would think would be a really n um , neat feature for the interface ?
A: Some sort of backwards tab
A: where it could go backwards without you having to go up and do it manually ,
E: Ooh , interesting .
D: Yeah .
C: T Yeah .
A: and , you know , press the button and " juh - juh - juh - juh - juh - juh - juh " .
B: Hmm .
A: Cuz if you miss something <comment> and you wanna go back to it , it 's such a such a hassle .
E: Mm - hmm .
C: That 's true .
A: It 'd be so nice if there was just some sort of like , you know , uh , opposite of tab that you could hit , that it would just sort of move backwards .
A: There wouldn't even have to be any , um F: Hmm .
D: But it would play it backwards too .
A: I know .
A: It w you wouldn't even have to have the audio .
A: That 's not I wouldn't I mean D: But just to move back , but not necessarily a whole timebin ?
F: Just to jump it back .
A: Yeah .
E: Interesting .
F: Right , cuz sometimes you 'll hear It 'll be in right in the middle of the timebin ,
E: Hmm .
F: and you don't have to listen to the whole thing again
C: Right .
F: cuz you 've already gotten the first part .
A: Right
D: Yeah .
B: Mmm .
A: Oh yeah . Yeah .
F: So you just want it to go back ,
F: I don't know A: Yeah , some C: And otherwise you have to drag it .
A: Yeah , some timebins are humongous ,
D: Or otherwise , drag it , or like click on it .
A: and if you miss it , you know , you 've gotta go back and find it ,
E: Mm - hmm .
A: and dragging it and looking for it and you may not be able to see it , even .
C: Right .
D: Yeah .
A: You know ?
F: That 's true .
D: I think that would be useful .
F: Hmm . Yeah .
A: Yeah .
E: Interesting idea .
E: I 'll I 'll s I 'll suggest that to the charer .
F: Yeah , the less you have to click on the mouse , I think the faster you could go .
D: Yeah , because I noticed I started feeling like I was getting some sort of carpal tunnel issues .
A: Mm - hmm .
F: Yeah , you were having some wrist problems and stuff ,
D: Much better now that I have the keyboard st tray ,
F: right ?
D: but it was F: Yeah .
D: I think cuz I had my hand in one position using it all the time .
A: Mmm .
D: And that I would it would crack a lot .
F: Yeah . Ooh !
D: It was very weird .
B: Mmm .
D: But .
C: Yeah .
E: That 's it 's good to be careful about the mousing .
E: You were gonna say ?
C: I s Oh , yeah . Um , something Um , maybe I just don't know how to do this ,