C: wants to drive there , walk there , or use some other form of transportation .
B: H How much of Heidelberg can you get around by public transport ?
B: I mean in terms of the interesting bits .
B: There 's lots of bits where you don't really
B: I 've only ev was there ten years ago , for a day , so I don't remember , but .
D: Mm - Well ,
B: I mean , like the sort of the tourist - y bits C: Everywhere .
B: is it like D: you can't get to the Philosophers ' Way very well ,
D: but ,
B: Yeah .
D: I mean there are hikes that you can't get to ,
D: but C: Yeah .
B: OK .
D: but I think other things you can , if I remember right .
A: So is like " biking there " part of like " driving there " ,
C: Yeah , um we actually biking should be should be a separate point because we have a very strong bicycle planning component .
A: or ?
D: Oh !
C: So .
E: Mmm g that 's good .
C: Um .
D: Put it in .
C: Bicycles c should be in there ,
C: but ,
C: will we have bic
C: I mean is this realistic ?
C: I mean B: Yeah .
D: OK , we can leave it out , I guess .
B: Yeah .
C: We can we can sort of uh , drive B: I would I would lump it with " walk " because hills matter .
C: Yeah .
B: Right ?
B: You know .
B: Things like that .
C: Yeah .
D: OK .
D: Skateboards
D: right ,
F: Right .
D: anyway .
D: Scooters ,
D: right ?
C: Yep .
D: Alright .
C: OK , " Length " is um , you wanna get this over with as fast as possible ,
C: you wanna use some part of what of the time you have .
C: Um , they can .
D: Ye
C: But we should just make a decision whether we feel that they want to use some substantial or some fraction of their time .
C: You know , they wanna do it so badly that they are willing to spend uh you know the necessary and plus time .
B: Hmm .
C: And um C: And y you know , if we feel that they wanna do nothing but that thing then , you know , we should point out that to the planner , that they probably want to use all the time they have .
C: So , stretch out that visit for that .
D: Mm - hmm .
B: Wow B: It seems like this would be really hard to guess .
B: I mean , on the part of the system .
B: It seems like it B: I mean you 're you 're talking about rather than having the user decide this you 're supposed t we 're supposed to figure it out ?
D: w well
C: Th - the user can always s say it , but it 's just sort of we we hand over these parameters if we make if we have a feeling that they are important .
B: Overrider
D: Yeah .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: And that we can actually infer them to a significant de degree , or we ask .
D: And D: And par yeah , and part of the system design is that if it looks to be important and you can't figure it out , then you ask .
B: OK .
C: Yeah .
B: OK .
D: But hopefully you don't ask you know , a all these things all the time .
D: Or eh so , y but there 's th but definitely a back - off position to asking .
B: Yeah .
B: Yeah .
B: Right .
B: Yeah .
C: And if no no part of the system ever comes up with the idea that this could be important , no planner is ever gonna ask for it .
B: Yeah .
C: y so And I like the idea that , you know , sort of C: Jerry pushed this idea from the very beginning , that it 's part of the understanding business to sort of make a good question of what 's s sort of important in this general picture , what you need t
B: Mm - hmm .
C: If you wanna simulate it , for example , what parameters would you need for the simulation ?
C: And , Timing , uh , uh , Length would definitely be part of it ,
C: " Costs " ,
C: " Little money , some money , lots of money " ?
D: Mm - hmm .
C: Actually , maybe uh F <comment> uh so , F
C: Yeah , OK .
C: Hmm ?
B: You could say " some " in there .
F: I must say that thi this one looks a bit strange to me .
F: Um maybe It seems like appropriate if I go to Las Vegas .
F: Well but I decide k kind of how much money uh I 'm willing to lose .
F: But a I as a tourist , I 'll just paying what 's what 's more or less is required .
D: Well , no .
D: I think there are there 're different things where you have a ch choice ,
E: Mmm .
D: for example , uh this t interacts with " do am I do oh are you willing to take a taxi ? "
B: Yeah .
B: Dinner .
D: Or uh , you know , if if you 're going to the opera are you gonna l look for the best seats or the peanut gallery
F: The best seat or or Right .
D: or , you know ,
D: whatever ?
B: OK . So D: S so I think there are a variety of things in which um D: Tour - tourists really do have different styles eating .
D: Another one ,
D: you know .
B: Yeah .
F: Right , that 's true .
E: Right .
C: The what what my sort of sentiment is they 're C: Well , I I once had to write a a a a charter , a carter for a a student organization .
C: And they had wanted me to define what the quorum is going to be .
C: And I looked at the other ones and they always said ten percent of the student body has to be present at their general meeting otherwise it 's not a C: And I wrote in there " En - Enough " people have to be there .
C: And it was hotly debated , but people agreed with me that everybody probably has a good feeling whether it was a farce , a joke , or whether there were enough people .
B: Yeah .
C: And if you go to Turkey , you will find when people go shopping , they will say " How much cheese do you want ? "
C: and they say " Ah , enough . "
C: And the and the this used all over the place .
C: Because the person selling the cheese knows , you know , that person has two kids and you know , a husband that dislikes cheese , so this is enough .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: And um so the middle part is always sort of the the golden way ,
C: right ?
C: So you can s you can be really make it as cheap as possible , or you can say " I want , er , you know , I don't care "
B: Money is no object .
B: Mm - hmm .
D: Yeah .
C: Money is no object ,
C: or you say " I just want to spend enough " .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: Or the sufficient , or the the appropriate amount .
B: Yeah .
C: But , Then again , this may turn out to be insufficient for our purposes .
C: But well , this is my first guess ,
B: I mean y
C: in much the same way as how how d you know should the route be ?
B: Yeah .
C: Should it be the easiest route , even if it 's a b little bit longer ?
B: Mm - hmm .
C: No steep inclinations ?
C: Go the normal way ?
C: Whatever that again means , er or do you does the person wanna rough it ?
B: Mm - hmm .
B: I mean th so there 's a couple of different ways you can interpret these things
B: right ?
B: You know " I want to go there and I don't care if it 's really hard . "
B: Or if you 're an extreme sport person , you know .
B: " I wanna go there and I insist on it being the hard way . "
D: Right .
B: Right ?
B: you know , so I assume we 're going for the first interpretation ,
E: Right .
B: right ?
B: Something like B: I 'll go th
B: I mean B: I 'd li
B: I dunno .
D: No , I think he was going for the second one ar actually .
B: It 's different from thing to B: Yeah ?
D: Anyway , we 'll sort th yeah , we 'll sort that out .
B: I I B: OK .
D: Right .
B: Yeah .
D: Absolutely .
C: Well , this is all sort of um , top of my head .
C: No no research behind that .
B: Yeah .
C: Um " Object information " ,
C: " Do I do I wanna know anything about that object ? "
C: is either true or false .
C: And . if I care about it being open , accessible or not , I don't think there 's any middle ground there .
C: Um , either I wanna know where it is or not ,
C: I wanna know about it 's history or not ,
C: or , um I wanna know about what it 's good for or not .
C: Maybe one could put scales in there , too .
C: So I wanna know a l lot about it .
D: Yeah , now ob
D: OK ,
D: I 'm sorry ,
D: go ahead ,
D: what were you gonna say ?
C: One could put scales in there .
C: So I wanna know a lot about the history ,
C: just a bit .
D: Yeah , right
D: well y i w if we w
D: right .
D: So " object " becomes " entity " ,
D: right ?
C: Yep , that 's true .
D: Yeah , but we don't have to do it now .
C: Yep .
C: That was the wrong shortcut anyhow .
D: And we think that 's it , interestingly enough , that um , you know , th
D: or or or something very close to it is going to be uh going to be enough .
D: And E: Still wrong .
C: Yeah .
B: OK .
D: Alright , so um So I think the order of things is that um , Robert will clean this up a little bit , although it looks pretty good .
D: And C: What ,
C: well this is the part that D: Huh ?
C: this is the part that needs the work .
D: Right .
D: Yeah , so B: Yeah .
D: right ,
D: so So , um In parallel , uh three things are going to happen .
D: Uh Robert and Eva and Bhaskara are gonna actually build a belief - net that that , um , has CPT 's and , you know , tries to infer this from various kinds of information .
D: And Fey is going to start collecting data ,
D: and we 're gonna start thinking a about uh what constructions we want to elicit .
D: And then w go it may iterate on uh , further data collection to elicit B: D Do you mean Do you mean eliciting particular constructions ?
B: Or do you mean like what kinds of things we want to get people talking about ? Semantically speaking , eh ?
D: Well , yes .
D: Both .
B: OK .
D: Uh , and Though for us , constructions are primarily semantic ,
D: right ?
B: Right .
D: And And so uh B: Sure .
B: I mean from my point of view I 'm I 'm trying to care about the syntax , so you know D: Well that too ,
D: but um You know if th if we in if we you know , make sure that we get them talking about temporal order .
B: OK .
B: Yeah .
D: OK , that would be great
D: and if th if they use prepositional phrases or subordinate clauses or whatever ,
B: Mm - hmm .
B: Right . OK .
D: um D: W You know , whatever form they use is fine .
B: OK .
D: But I I think that probably we 're gonna try to look at it as you know , s what semantic constructions d do we do we want them to uh do direc
B: OK .
D: you know , um , " Caused motion " ,
D: I don't know ,
D: something like that .
B: OK .
D: Uh But , Eh - uh this is actually a conversation you and I have to have about your thesis fantasies , and how all this fits into that .
B: Got it .
B: Yeah .
B: Uh Yeah . OK .
D: But uh C: Well , I will tell you the German tourist data .
B: OK .
C: Because I have not been able to dig out all the stuff out of the m ta thirty D V
B: OK .
C: Um If you B: Is that roughly the equivalent of of what I 've seen in English or is it C: No , not at all .
B: OK .
C: Dialogues . SmartKom B: OK .
C: SmartKom Human .
C: Wizard of Oz .
B: OK .
B: Same B: OK , that .
B: Got it .
B: Like what What have I got now ?
B: I mean I have uh what what I 'm loo what I B: Those files that you sent me are the user side of some interaction with Fey ?
C: A little bit of data , I B: Is that what it is ? Or ?
C: With nothing .
D: No , no .
B: Just talking into a box and not hearing anything back .
C: Yep .
B: OK .
C: Yep .
C: Some data I collected in a couple weeks for training recognizers and email way back when .
B: OK . OK .
C: Nothing to write home about .
B: OK .
C: And um the C: see this this this uh ontology node is probably something that I will try to expand .
C: Once we have the full ontology API , what can we expect to get from the ontology ?
C: And hopefully you can sort of also try to find out , you know , sooner or later in the course of the summer what we can expect to get from the discourse that might , you know or the B: Mm - hmm .
D: mm - hmm .
C: not the discourse , the utterance as it were , uh ,
B: Mm - hmm .
D: Right .
C: in terms of uh D: Right , but we 're not expecting Keith to actually build a parser .
C: No , no , no , no , no .
B: Right , Right .
D: OK .
D: We are expecting Johno to build a parser ,
C: Uh , this is Yes .
D: but that 's a B: By the end of the summer , too .
D: No .
C: No .
D: No .
D: Uh He 's g he 's hoping to do this for his masters ' thesis s by a year from now .
C: But it 's sort of it 's B: Right .
B: Hmm .
B: Still , pretty formidable actually .
D: Eh - absolutely .
D: Uh limited .
D: I mean , you know , the idea is is ,
B: Yeah .
D: Well , the hope is that the parser itself is , uh , pretty robust .
D: But it 's not popular it 's only p only B: Right , Right .
B: Existence proof , you know .
B: Set up the infrastructure ,
D: Right .
D: It 's only popula
B: yeah .
D: Right .
B: Um sometime , I have to talk to some subset of the people in this group , at least about um what sort of constructions I 'm looking for .
B: I mean , you know obviously like just again , looking at this one uh thing , you know , I saw y things from sort of as general as argument structure constructions .
B: Oh , you know , I have to do Verb Phrase .
B: I have to do uh uh unbounded dependencies ,
B: you know , which have a variety of constructions in uh uh B: instantiate that .
B: On the other hand I have to have , you know ,
B: there 's particular uh , fixed expressions , or semi - fixed expressions like " Get " plus path expression for , you know , " how d ho how do I get there ? " ,
D: Mm - hmm .
B: " How do I get in ? " ,
B: " How do I get away ? "
D: Right .
B: and all that kind of stuff .
B: Um , so there 's a variety of sort of different sorts of constructions
D: Absolutely .
B: and it you know it 's it 's sort of like anything goes .
B: Like D: OK , so this is I think we 're gonna mainly work on with George .
D: OK , and hi
B: OK .
D: let me f th say what I think is is D: so the idea is uh first of all I misspoke when I said we thought you should do the constructions .
D: Cause apparently for a linguist that means to do completely and perfectly .
D: So what I yeah , OK , So what what I meant was " Do a first cut at " .
B: er that 's what
B: Yeah , yeah .
D: OK , Because uh we do wanna get them r u perfectly but I think we 're gonna have to do a first cut at a lot of them to see how they interact .
B: Of course .
B: Right , exactly .
B: Now it w we talked about this before ,
B: right .
B: And I I me it would it would be completely out of the question to really do more than , say , like , oh I don't know , ten , over the summer ,
D: Yeah .
B: but uh , but you know obviously we need to get sort of a general view of what things look like ,
B: so
B: yeah .
D: Right .
D: So the idea is going to be to do D: sort of like Nancy did in some of the er these papers where you do enough of them so you can go from top to bottom D: so you can do f you know , f f uh have a complete story ov of s of some piece of dialogue .
B: Mm - hmm .
D: And that 's gonna be much more useful than having all of the clausal constructions and nothing else , or or or something like that .
B: Yeah .
B: Sure .
B: Yeah .
D: So that the the trick is going to be t to take this and pick a some sort of lattice of constructions ,
B: Mm - hmm .
D: so some lexical and some phrasal , and and , you know ,
B: Mm - hmm .
D: whatever you need in order to uh , be able to then , uh , by hand , you know , explain , some fraction of the utterances .
B: Mm - hmm .
B: Yeah .
D: And so , exactly which ones will partly depend on your research interests and a bunch of other things .
B: Mm - hmm .
B: Sure .
B: OK .
B: But I mean in terms of the s th sort of level of uh of analysis ,
B: you know , these don't necessarily have to be more complex than like the " Out of " construction in the BCP paper where it 's just like , you know , half a page on each one or something .
D: Correct .
D: Oh yeah yeah .
D: V a half a page is is what we 'd like .
B: Yeah .
D: And if if there 's something that really requires a lot more than that then it does
D: and we have to do it ,
D: but B: Yeah .
B: For the first cut , that should be fine , yeah .
D: Yeah .
C: We could sit down and think of sort of the the ideal speaker utterances ,
C: and I mean two or three that follow each other ,
B: Mm - hmm .
C: so , where we can also sort of , once we have everything up and running , show the tremendous , insane inferencing capabilities of our system .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: So , you know , as as the SmartKom people have .
C: This is sort of their standard demo dialogue , which is , you know , what the system survives and nothing but that .
B: Mm - hmm .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: Um , we could also sor sort of have the analogen of o our sample sentences ,
C: the ideal sentences where we have complete construction coverage and , sort of , they match nicely .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: So the the " How do I get to X ? " ,
C: you know , that 's definitely gonna be uh , a major one .
B: Yeah .
B: Yeah .
B: That 's about six times in this little one here , so uh , yeah .
D: Right .
C: Yep .
C: " Where is X ? "
C: might be another one which is not too complicated .
B: Yeah .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: And um " Tell me something about X . "
B: Yeah .
C: And hey , that 's that 's already covering eighty percent of the system 's functionality .
D: Ye - Right , but it 's not covering eighty percent of the intellectual interest .
B: Yeah .
C: No , we can w throw in an " Out of Film " construction if you want to ,
D: No , no , no .
C: but D: Well the th the thing is there 's a lot that needs to be done to get this right .
D: OK , I th