Lynne Neagle AM: Okay, thank you. Well, we've got some questions now from Suzy on the potential closures of colleges and universities.
Suzy Davies AM: Okay. Well, it's a very general question, really. I appreciate you've already indicated there are lots of ongoing conversations, but my understanding is whether colleges or universities close is pretty much still at their own discretion. We're going to be asking some questions on emergency legislation shortly, which may impact on the answer you can give today, but what sort of conversations are you having with FE and HE at the moment about how they decide?
Kirsty Williams AM: Well, you're absolutely right. As we often say in this committee, universities are autonomous institutions—a status that they guard jealously and we would never want to question. Universities have been making the decision to move as much of their learning online as they possibly can and we continue to have conversations with them. Colleges are in a similar position, looking to do as much as they can to be able to provide continuity of learning via distance learning methods, and the Bill, potentially, does give us more powers of intervention in both the FE and the HE sector.
Suzy Davies AM: I might ask you about that in a minute, because I don't even know what the Bill says yet.
Kirsty Williams AM: Huw, I don't know if there's anything you want to add.
Huw Morris: No—just to confirm what's been said and also to add in that independent training providers, similarly autonomous, like colleges and universities, have been moving in the same direction. We've been very impressed with the maturity and forward-planning that's been adopted by all of those institutions and their representative bodies. We've got consistency in the approach and a common desire, and investment in moving towards online support for students.
Suzy Davies AM: And there's still this safety net idea. Certainly, colleges have indicated, as with schools, that, for the most vulnerable learners, they'll have something in place that might permit attendance on an individual basis.
Huw Morris: That's my understanding, yes, and, again, we've been in regular conversation with them about that. My understanding is that they're going to spend the next week working through the detail of how that will work for the institutions.
Suzy Davies AM: That's fair enough. And, presumably, education maintenance allowance will still be paid.
Kirsty Williams AM: Yes. Arrangements have been made to ensure that EMA continues to be paid to all students who are entitled.
Suzy Davies AM: That's right. You indicated that any Welsh Government support's going to stay, whatever the circumstances are—in your portfolio.
Kirsty Williams AM: Yes. I'm doing my best, but it's an absolute yes on the EMA. There will be no disruption to EMA.
Suzy Davies AM: Okay. You might get some further questions on HE and FE.
Lynne Neagle AM: Yes. We've got some further questions, indeed, from Helen Mary and then Hefin.
Helen Mary Jones AM: Now or in a bit?
Lynne Neagle AM: Yes.
Helen Mary Jones AM: Just further to EMA, of course, at the moment, that has an attendance qualification, doesn't it? And you don't get your EMA if you don't turn up. Should we take from your last answer that that attendance qualification doesn't apply anymore?
Kirsty Williams AM: Yes. They can't turn up if the institution is not open, and that's not their fault.
Helen Mary Jones AM: No, but that is something that's been a worry, so that's really encouraging to hear. Thinking about students in higher education, can you give an assurance that student maintenance payments will continue as normal? Is that the intention?
Kirsty Williams AM: Yes.
Helen Mary Jones AM: That's really good to hear. And have you given any special ministerial instruction to Student Finance Wales on processing applications for support or changes of circumstances, or is that something that's kind of ongoing at the moment?
Kirsty Williams AM: Those conversations are ongoing with the Student Loans Company. As I said, we anticipate no disruption to—. We don't anticipate any change in the approach to students as a result of this. Individual student circumstances could well change and our expectation would be that the Student Loans Company would respond to that. All I would say is, just to remind people: people who work for the Student Loans Company are no more able to resist this disease than anybody else. There will undoubtedly in some cases be really practical challenges to service delivery, simply because organisations could be losing staff because of illness or the need to self-isolate or because they are reacting to social-distancing messages from the Government. So, I think we just need to bear that in mind: that these organisations are doing their best, but, if they are badly affected by staff numbers being off because of the virus, then I hope people will give them due consideration.
Helen Mary Jones AM: Yes, that makes sense, of course, because we've been told that universities won't be able to entirely close, because there will be students who can't go home—
Kirsty Williams AM: It is their home.
Helen Mary Jones AM: —overseas students, for example. What discussions have you been having with the sector to make sure that those students' basic needs are met, that there's still food, shelter, whatever they need?
Kirsty Williams AM: Well, obviously, universities have a duty of care to those students that find themselves in those circumstances, and every conversation that Huw's been having would suggest that universities are well aware of their need to do that.
Huw Morris: We instituted a monitoring process very early on in the onset of the disease, not least because a number of institutions have campuses and activities in China and other parts of south-east Asia. And so, as the disease has progressed, we've seen lessons being learned from the support for students who are in isolation coming from there to the UK, and I am assured that the universities here in Wales have got processes in place that support those learners.
Helen Mary Jones AM: That's really helpful. And on this specifically—last question from me— have you considered whether students might need to be refunded some of their tuition fees, should the academic year not be completed?
Huw Morris: So, as the institutions move more and more of their material and some of their assessment online, clearly, there are lessons that will need to be taken on board. There are established quality assurance and enhancement procedures in institutions to enable the tutors and other supporters to make sure that that material meets their needs. The intention in all of these institutions is that they will complete their course of study. There are appeals mechanisms and feedback mechanisms through the students union and through course committees and other things within institutions to make sure that any concerns or incomplete work are addressed. Failing those institutional mechanisms, there is a UK-wide system through the Office of the Independent Adjudicator for students to take forward any concerns that they have. So, we're confident that that system will be robust and will make sure that the students are getting a course of learning that meets their needs.
Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. Suzy, you had a supplementary.
Suzy Davies AM: No, Mr Morris has answered my question.
Lynne Neagle AM: Okay. We've got a couple more questions now on vulnerable learners. I've got Helen Mary, then Hefin.

Summary: According to Kirsty, they had been very impressed with the maturity and forward-planning that had been adopted by all of those institutions and their representative bodies. They had got consistency in the approach and a common desire, and investment in moving towards online support for students. There was still a safety net idea. Colleges had indicated, as with schools, that, for the most vulnerable learners, they would have something in place that might permit attendance on an individual basis. Any Welsh Government support going to stay, whatever the circumstances were. They would do their best to ensure that there would be no disruption to EMA.