C: They 're the guys going around C: they 're probably talking to nobody ,
C: but
B: Oh they they have little headsets ?
D: Yep .
A: Th - d
C: Yes .
B: Or what do they A: Yep .
C: They wear the heads
C: E Well , there you go .
B: Oh you 've you 've got one .
C: Yes .
C: That 's that it looks sort of like that .
A: Except that one 's even bigger than most of the ones I 've seen .
B: So where where does how do you wear that ?
A: Most of the ones are just a little boom .
B: What does that F: You you put it over the corner of your ear .
B: Yeah , over the corner of the ear F: I can't I 'm having competing microphone headphone problems here .
E: There 's another kind which s goes in your ear
B: Huh .
E: and it hangs down .
E: There 's a little b <comment> bulb
D: Yep . It just ha just hangs down there .
B: Yeah , that I 've seen .
B: Yeah .
E: that hangs has the mike on it .
C: OK , so whatever people sort of wear to use l
F: This one .
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
C: Yeah , something like tha with their cell phones ,
B: Yeah .
C: it 'd be really great , I think , if we can argue t that F: It 's an interesting idea .
C: people like that .
F: The acoustics F: the acoustics on this are really s m better than when I talk into it directly .
A: Yeah . The the biggest issue is the stupid cable
B: But what C: Are they ?
B: Why would it be cool ?
A: that Sony A: The connector that Sony has , that , uh C: Oh , OK .
C: So it 's they 're not compatible ?
A: It 's non - standard ,
A: and so you can't just plug something in .
A: You need to get it wired .
B: Oh , I 'm sorry .
B: You 're talking about that as a possible thing to plug into the Sonys .
C: Well ,
C: um , just as an example for , you know , the future , of the fact that maybe people will wear those microphones ,
A: Right .
B: No ?
E: How standard are these ?
F: Works with this .
F: I don't know .
C: or some people might ,
B: Well , some people will , yeah .
C: to meetings ,
C: you know .
C: Not a I 'm not saying there 's not a far - field microphone , uh , application ,
C: but C: If we have a choi I 've always wondered how well they would work .
E: It is an interesting idea .
E: If we could build an adaptor that went from E: cuz I think mine looks like this too .
E: If we had this style plug that went to that , then we 'd just have adaptors
A: Right .
E: and people would plug them in .
E: You could use they could use their own .
C: Oh , right . So they could use the A: I wonder if you could do an adaptor .
A: I don't know if you can or not .
C: Anyway , it 's just an idea .
B: Yeah .
C: Um A: An adaptor might be a better idea than do redoing the wiring all the time .
C: Mmm .
B: Well , I mean , another s
B: An - another side to that is that , um , in principle , uh , if it all comes together , supposedly we 're gonna get two um , IRAM boards .
A: Right .
B: Uh , little later on in the year .
B: And so , we 're gonna wanna be thinking in terms of some wireless connection to it .
A: Mm - hmm .
B: Um ,
B: so we have , you know , some kind of little something ,
B: and , uh , we have a wireless connection , this board , that 's doing the computation for the f the , uh the recognition .
B: And so , you know , we wanna be able to show off to somebody ,
B: you know , we have a base station somewhere ,
B: and you 're wandering around , uh , hands free ,
B: and A: Yep .
E: I don't understand .
E: So so there 's a mike that plugs in E: You 're saying there 's a mike that plugs in to the IRAM board ?
B: No , no , what I 'm saying is that we 're gonna have to put together some kind of a little superstructure , d some sort of demo box that it that doesn't do a whole lot ,
E: or A: Demo .
B: but it somehow connects to uh , remotely to this IRAM board
B: which will be doing the real computation .
E: Oh , I see .
B: In other words , we 're we 're not gonna attempt to build , uh , it do the real work of building a portable device that 's little , that is doing all the computation we wanna do for the recognition and the far - field mike , uh , compensation and all that stuff .
B: So we 're gonna do all that on this powerful board ,
B: and , uh , have some wireless connection to it .
B: And then the question is what is what does it look like ,
B: does it look like something that you you hold like this ,
B: or do we make a big deal out of it that you hold it arm at arm 's length th so that you can see some display ,
B: or , uh ,
B: do we have one of these B: You know . I don't know .
B: So , it th these are all possibilities .
A: Yep .
A: I mean , what I was envisioning was a PDA with a cellular link in it .
A: You know , with one of the r short - range wireless .
A: And let th Just do capture the audio on the PDA and send the audio over the wireless net .
B: Yeah . So , is is Bluetooth the sort of thing that 'd be , uh A: But .
A: Uh , Bluetooth is shorter range ,
A: but you could use Bluetooth .
A: Wh - whatever the network guys already have hooked up for this floor .
A: I don't remember what it 's called .
B: Hmm .
A: OK , then uh , another issue on file reorganization is , uh , making data available to people outside ICSI .
A: So , specifically , the U W folks have been wanting to get access to it .
A: So I think the right thing to do for that , is figure out how to do CVS without uh , compromising security .
A: Some pass SSH tunneled CVS ,
E: Well , I I was A: and then give them access .
E: I was reading through some of the CVS documentation
E: and you can just substitute CVS for your R S H command .
A: Yes , except that the command has to not take a password .
E: Hmm .
A: Because it it 's non - interactive .
A: And so the only way to do that is with , uh S - hosts ,
A: which is insecure .
E: Hmm .
A: So we still have to sort of look at it a little bit .
A: I mean , I 'm sure it 's been solved ,
A: and I just haven't found the solution yet .
A: But I am sure that people have done it
A: because it 's gonna be a problem a lot of people have .
A: But , um B: Who Well , we 're s talking about a fairly limited group ,
B: are are is it a small enough group that they would could just have accounts ?
B: Does that solve anything ?
A: Uh , n n not really ,
A: because then we have the coordination issue .
A: I mean , so one thing they could do A: I mean , I guess that 's true .
A: They could simply log in to ICSI
B: Yeah .
E: Well they 're gonna have to have accounts A: and do everything locally .
E: If they use SSH they have to have an account anyways .
A: Yeah , except they could share one .
B: Well , but that 's not A: The , uh the SSH accounts , and the user accounts don't have to be similar .
A: So .
A: I mean , there are lots of ways of doing it ,
A: but w but if we can't figure out a remote way of doing it , just letting them log in to ICSI might be OK .
C: Mm - hmm .
A: So the intention was to put everything except the audio files themselves under revision control .
A: And the audio files , it 's not worth doing
A: cuz they 're too big .
A: You 're never gonna be copying them around and making working copies of them .
B: Right .
A: And then the other issue Jane and I spoke of briefly is just general permission issues .
A: That right now , lots of people create the files
A: and then we have group " Meeting Recorder " .
A: But that means anyone in the Meeting Recorder group can overwrite the files .
A: And so that 's a pretty coarse level of granularity .
A: So we might wanna think about doing a Meeting Recorder user owner for those files ,
A: and then doing group slightly differently .
A: But A: I think what we have now C: Can you just do , like , SUX or something to modify C: I mean , if you just have one user that A: Another option is to m make a non make it owned by a not real user ,
A: and then root will be able to do it .
A: But root is pretty tightly controlled here .
C: Mm - hmm .
F: I had another thought .
A: So th I don't think that 's a good solution .
F: Would w would it be possi
F: There are scripts that uh , run ,
F: and and when it 's finished compressing , would it be possible for the script to change the permissions on the file to be more strict ?
F: Have them A: Yes , but if you do that , then someone who isn't the owner can't unchange it .
F: But after the meeting 's done , would they want to ?
A: Yeah , as I said , it 's just a question of , uh , do you wanna have to track down root if you have to make any change .
C: But it doesn't have to be root .
C: It could be some other user that we all can SUX to .
F: That 's true .
A: You have security issues with that .
A: So .
F: Yeah , that 's true .
C: I mean E: That 's what we do with doctor - speech though ,
E: right ?
A: No , with doctor - speech , it 's just a group .
A: So there 're lots of different owners of i i of the files , but the group is always doctor - speech .
A: Or real , usually .
E: But there is a user doctor - speech .
E: Right ?
E: I mean , I I SUX to doctor - speech w when I need to make a a directory on , uh , one of the A: Nnn
A: Oh , do you ?
C: Oh . So tha that 's what I meant ,
C: it just some user like " meeting - root " or something .
A: Oh , OK .
C: I don't know .
A: I mean , I 'm not too worried ,
A: because the group 's pretty small .
A: But B: Yeah .
F: Also it seems like once it 's been stored that night , it 's it 's possible to recover from backups ,
F: so that the main risk is avoiding it being accidentally deleted during the day that it was recorded .
A: Well , and just You , then , also just have the general problem of permission on the other files ,
A: that , do you want people checking out a transcript file when they find an error , and correcting it ,
A: or do they wa do you want it to go through you ?
F: Yeah . Yeah .
F: And I 'd prefer it to go through me .
A: OK , but that means that you 're gonna have to be available for people , all the time , who say " there 's an error here " ,
A: rather than just them just going in and correcting it .
F: Well I p At this point E: Well , with CVS , though , you don't actually have to do it that way .
F: Yeah .
C: Yeah .
A: Well , but You have a choice .
A: Either you let people do it themselves , or you don't .
F: Yeah .
E: What I 'm saying is that it can be the case that people can do it themselves and it can be reviewed .
F: w w
F: Well
E: Right ?
A: Right .
E: I mean , it 's not like it 's one or the other .
E: We can do both .
C: Yeah , you can A: Right , so you could get email .
A: Send email to Jane that someone has done a revision .
E: Right .
F: I I wanna also say that , you know , this is a F: uh , uh , My my view on this is that once it 's in a final version and I 'm working toward all these being final versions , then it can go into this next ro this next realm .
F: But it it 's sort of counter - productive to have changes made which I would be making if I 'd just gotten that far in the file .
F: You know , it 's it 's , um .
A: Well , so , you don't have to release it to the world until you 're ready to .
F: Yeah .
F: That 's right .
A: So the question is s w
F: And then after that , then this would probably work .
F: Yeah .
A: So you would keep it in a separate file structure until you were ready to put it in the repository .
F: Good , good .
C: I mean A: Or just keep the lock on it .
C: Is CVS , like C: Yeah , just keep the lock on .
C: I mean , just check it out check it out
A: Until you 're A: Yep .
C: and don't let anyone check it out E: No , it does not the CVS doesn't work that way .
C: Oh ,
C: it Oh , it doesn't .
E: There 's no there 's no lock when you check something out ,
C: Oh , OK .
E: not like RCS .
E: In other words , everybody can check out anything .
C: Oh .
E: The C stands for " concurrent " .
C: So why not use RCS at that point ? Just at that stage ?
A: Cuz it 's not remote .
C: It 's not remote .
A: The nice thing about CVS is is , you can be on a different machine .
C: But at that point we only want , probably , Jane to be in control anyway ,
C: and she C: I mean , it 's just an i
A: No , because UW wants to have access to these files .
A: That 's the whole point .
C: But not to modify them ,
C: right ?
C: Just to read them .
A: Well , if they k en if they record a meeting , and they create a " key " file , and they find an error in their " key " file , they shouldn't have to tell us about that
A: so that they can create correct an error in one of their files .
F: Well , the " key " file is A: So that 's why I wanna do it C: I don't know ,
F: ke " key " file 's different .
C: uh I mean F: " Key " fi
A: Different than what ?
F: Well , " key " file has the extra attributes that if you notice that there are lots of spikes on channel
F: so - and - so , it 's useful as a repository for putting that there .
F: And also if you notice that there was an extra speaker ,
F: and didn't get mentioned in the " key " file ,
F: but they were only there for a second ,
F: but it 's t useful to mention that they were there .
F: So I th I think that the " key " file is usefu for notations related to the meeting ,
A: Well A: B
A: But , I mean , the meetings are gonna be the same way .
F: but it 's different from the transcript .
A: So UW records a meeting ,
A: we transcribe it .
F: Yeah .
A: A few months later they listen to it
A: and they say " Ope ! <comment> They got that acronym wrong . "
F: Yeah .
C: Then they should send that through A: Why why sh
C: Well It 's sort of not really a question about permissions ,
C: but more of procedure .
C: Either those all go through Jane , or through someone ,
A: Mm - hmm .
C: or they all don't .
C: But it 's sort of C: And if they all do , then there isn't a problem ,
C: right ?
C: Cuz once they give us the data , it 's ours ,
C: and if they wanna make changes C: I mean , ours to sort of transcribe and annotate .
A: The the p the point here is that it would be nice t for there to be one repository .
C: And if they wanna make changes , they can do that .
B: Yeah
F: Yeah .
A: And if we don't let them modify their own data , <comment> they 're not gonna store their data in our repository .
A: Or if we make it inconvenient for them to change their data .
C: So then if they do have acc
A: I I 'm just looking at it the other way around .
C: OK , so what if they have What if they have accounts here , and they use RCS ,
A: So so let 's say we k
C: at that point , where you can l really lock a file .
C: I mean , I 'm worried . If you can't lock a file , this this to me sounds very scary .
F: Hmm .
C: Um C: And if they have accounts here and they 're modifying it C: If they 're ac if they 're so closely linked that they 're actually modifying transcripts and " key " files , then they could do it by , you know , secure - shelling into ICSI , under RCS , at that point .
A: Ye - well , I don't see a real difference between RCS and any other system .
A: I mean , it 's just mechanisms .
A: The nice thing about CVS is that you can have multiple people modifying
A: and if the changes don't overlap each other , they can just do it .
F: Hmm .
F: That 's interesting .
A: So the problem with RCS is that if two people want to modify a file at the same time they can't ,
D: Yeah .
A: because the granularity of locking is at the file level .
B: What - what does CVS do if they if they do overlap ?
A: Uh , there 're lots of different policies for dealing with it .
C: Mm - hmm .
E: But typically a person has to , uh , mediate you know , which changes actually get go through .
A: So D: Yeah .
F: Oh .
D: Yeah , to decide which one is F: Oh .
D: Yeah .
B: Oh , I
C: So , maybe there is a way in CVS to effectively <comment> lock something if you don't want people to make any changes ?
A: At the repository level , there certainly is .
C: Uh - huh .
A: You can mark a file as as " you can't check this out " .
C: Oh .
C: So E: CVS is pretty good .
C: So then you could use CVS
C: and , you know , just f have remote access ,
B: OK .
A: Yep .
C: but then it 's up to whoever is , sort of , responsible for that level of transcription to decide how and when to put these locks ,
A: Well , it 's it 's just like source code ,
C: or A: right ?
A: So that , when you 're developing it and it 's really rough , you don't put it in the repository .
C: Yeah .
A: You wait to the point when you 're ready to release it ,
A: and then you put it in the repository
E: Yeah , so the w
F: Mm - hmm .
A: and if other people wanna Copy .
E: In
E: The Maybe the model E: It 's a little bit different in CVS .
E: When you check something out , you actually create your own directory with copies of everything in it ,
E: and that 's what you work on .
E: So , until you 're ready to check it in , nobody sees anything you 've done .
E: And then when you check it in , it puts , sort of , you know every change that you 've done is goes into the central C: Right .
C: So if that 's at an
B: Hmm .
C: I guess it depends on Jane 's C: Uh , you know ,
C: if that 's if that model works for the transcripts , then that 's fine .
C: But if that pr @ @ um , allows someone to come in and modify while you 're modifying , and they turn out to be changes that , you know , would have been better to wait until your version came out , then that 's really up to you ,
C: not up to the software ,
F: I also think , um , that the type of change ch ch varies an I think it 's a very good point .
F: Because what if the uh , what if one set of changes one person was making was with reference to some typographical convention .
A: Mm - hmm .
F: And the other person n unkn n quite unknowingly , was changing it the other way around .
F: Then you could end up with a real mess ,
F: in terms of , like , consistency of conventions across a file , there is an argument to be made for having a single editor editing at that level .
F: But I like b I like what Liz is saying about E: Well yeah , there would there would have to be somebody to enforce the consistency .
F: That 's right .
F: And I also like I l also like Liz 's uh , k um , phraseology of " at this level of " I don't remember how you put it , <comment> but this " at this level of transcription " or whatever .