C: No , no , no . Uh we have not we have not seen the light .
G: So .
B: No .
G: I it 's easy to go back and forth
B: The the reason One reason we 're doing it this way is in case there 's extra structure that 's in the Enter action that 's not captured by the schemas ,
G: isn't it ?
G: Uh - huh .
G: I agree .
G: Right .
G: Right .
B: right ?
G: Which is why I would think you would say Enter
G: and then just say all the things that are relevant specifically to Enter .
G: And then the things that are abstract will be in the abstract things as well .
G: And that 's why the bindings become useful .
B: Right , but E: Ri - You 'd like so you 're saying you could practically turn this structure inside out ?
E: or something ,
E: or ?
G: Um Ye - I see what you mean by that ,
C: No basically w
G: but I I don't if I would I would need to have t have that .
C: Get get rid of the sort of SPG slash something
G: Right .
C: uh or the sub - actions category ,
C: because what does that tell us ?
G: Uh - huh .
G: Yeah .
C: Um and I agree that you know this is something we need to discuss ,
G: I in fact what you could say is for Enter ,
C: yeah .
G: you could say " here , list all the kinds of schemas that on the category that E: List all the parent categories .
G: you know i
G: list all the parent categories " .
G: It 's just like a frame hierarchy ,
G: right ?
E: Yeah .
G: like you have these blended frames .
C: Mm - hmm .
G: So you would say enter and you 'd say my parent frames are such - and - such ,
G: h and then those are the ones that actually you then actually define and say how the roles bind to your specific roles
G: which will probably be f richer and fuller and have other stuff in there .
E: Yeah .
E: This sounds like a paper I 've read around here recently in terms of G: Yeah it could be not a coincidence .
G: Like I said , I 'm sure I 'm just hitting everything with a hammer that I developed ,
E: Yeah .
G: but I mean you know uh it 's G: I 'm just telling you what I think ,
G: you just hit the button and it 's like C: And , I guess fr uh
E: Yeah I mean but there 's a good question here .
E: Like , I mean uh do you When do you need E: Damn this headset !
E: When you this uh ,
G: Metacomment .
E: eh E: Yeah . <comment> That 's all recorded .
E: Um .
G: " Damn this project . "
E: Why do you G: No just kidding .
E: I don't know . Like E: How do I how do I come at this question ?
E: Um .
E: I just don't see why you would E: I mean does th
E: Who uses this uh this data structure ?
E: You know ? Like , do you say " alright I 'm going to uh  do an SPG action " .
E: And then you know somebody ne either the computer or the user says " alright , well , I know I want to do a Source - Path - Goal action so what are my choices among that ? "
E: And " oh , OK , so I can do an Enter - View - Approach " .
E: It 's not like that ,
E: right ?
E: It 's more like you say " I want to , uh  I want to do an Enter . "
B: Well only one of E: And then you 're more interested in knowing what the parent categories are of that .
E: Right ?
E: So that the um the uh sort of representation that you were just talking about seems more relevant to the kinds of things you would have to do ?
G: Hmm .
B: I 'd I
B: I think I 'd B: I 'm not sure if I understand your question .
B: Only one of those things are gonna be lit up when we pass this on .
E: OK .
B: So only Enter will be B: if we if our if our module decided that Enter is the case , View and Approach will not be there .
E: OK .
E: OK .
C: Well uh it 's it sort of came into my mind that sometimes even two could be on , and would be interesting .
G: Yeah .
C: um nevertheless um
E: Mayb - Well maybe I 'm not understanding where this comes from and where this goes to .
B: Well in that case , we can't we can't w if if G: OK .
C: l let 's let 's not B: well the thing is if that 's the case we our I don't think our system can handle that currently .
E: What are we doing with this ?
C: No , not at all .
C: But U s t So E: In principle .
G: " Approach and then enter . "
C: the I think the in some sense we we ex get the task done extremely well
G: Run like this
G: uh C: because this is exactly the discussion we need need .
G: Mm - hmm .
C: Period .
C: No more qualifiers than that .
G: No , this is the useful ,
C: So .
G: you know , don don't worry .
C: and um and and I th I hope
C: um uh
C: let 's make a a a a sharper claim .
C: We will not end this discussion anytime soon .
G: Yeah ,
G: I can guarantee that .
C: And it 's gonna get more and more complex the the l complexer and larger our domains get .
E: Sigh .
C: And I think um we will have all of our points in writing pretty soon .
C: So this is nice about being being recorded also .
E: Right .
C: The um D: That 's true .
B: The r uh the in terms of why is it 's laid out like this versus some other C: the people E: Yeah .
E: Yeah .
B: um that 's kind of a contentious point between the two of us
B: but this is one wa so this is a way to link uh the way these roles are filled out to the action .
E: In my view .
E: Mm - hmm .
B: Because if we know that Enter is a t is an SPG action ,
E: Mm - hmm .
B: right ?
B: we know to look for an SPG schema and put the appropriate fill in the appropriate roles later on .
E: Mm - hmm .
G: And you could have also indicated that by saying " Enter , what are the kinds of action I am ? "
E: Yeah .
C: Mm - hmm , yeah .
B: Right .
E: Yeah .
G: Right ?
G: So there 's just like sort of reverse organization ,
G: right ?
G: So like unless @ @ Are there reasons why one is better than the other I mean that come from other sources ?
E: Again C: Yes because nobod no the modules don't G: Yeah .
G: uh
C: This is this is a schema that defines XML messages that are passed from one module to another ,
G: Mm - hmm .
C: mainly meaning from the natural language understanding , or from the deep language understanding to the action planner .
G: Mm - hmm .
C: Now the the reason for for not using this approach is because you always will have to go back ,
C: each module will try have to go back to look up which uh you know entity can have which uh , you know , entity can have which parents ,
C: and then C: So you always need the whole body of of y your model um to figure out what belongs to what .
C: Or you always send it along with it ,
G: Mm - hmm .
G: Mm - hmm .
C: nuh ?
C: So you always send up " here I am I am this person , and I can have these parents "
G: Mm - hmm .
C: in every message .
G: OK , so it 's just like a pain to have to send it .
C: which e
C: It may or may not be a just a pain
C: it 's it 's C: I 'm completely willing to to to throw all of this away
G: OK , I understand .
C: and completely redo it ,
E: Well C: you know and and and it after some iterations we may just do that .
G: Mm - hmm .
E: I I would just like to ask um like , if it could happen for next time ,
E: I mean , just beca cuz I 'm new
E: and I don't really just I just don't know what to make of this
C: Mm - hmm .
E: and what this is for , and stuff like that , you know ,
E: so if someone could make an example of what would actually be in it ,
C: Yeah .
E: like first of all what modules are talking to each other using this ,
C: Yeah , we I will promise for the next time to have fleshed out N <comment> XML examples for a a run through and and see how this this then translates ,
E: right ?
E: And E: OK .
G: Be great .
C: and how this can come about ,
C: nuh ?
C: including the sort of " miracle occurs here " um part .
E: Right .
C: And um
C: is there more to be said ?
C: I think
C: um C: In principle what I I think that this approach does ,
C: and e e whether or not we take the Enter - View and we all throw up up the ladder
C: um wha how do how does Professor Peter call that ?
G: Yeah .
C: The uh hhh , <comment> silence su sublimination ?
C: Throwing somebody up the stairs ?
C: Have you never read the Peter 's Principle
E: Nope .
C: anyone here ?
A: Oh , uh
F: People reach their level of uh max their level of at which they 're incompetent or whatever .
A: Yeah .
C: Maximum incompetence
C: and then you can throw them up the stairs
A: Yeah .
E: Alright .
A: Right , right .
G: Oh !
C: um . Yeah .
A: Promote them ,
A: yeah .
C: OK , so we can promote Enter - View all all up a bit
C: and and get rid of the uh blah - blah - X - blah uh asterisk sub - action item altogether .
E: OK .
C: No no problem with that