The Chair: We'll now proceed to questioning ministers. The first question will go to Mr. Albas.
Mr. Dan Albas (Central OkanaganSimilkameenNicola, CPC) : Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today we've learned that federal workers have been told to ignore obvious signs of fraud when it comes to applying for government benefits. Can the Prime Minister confirm that 200,000 applications have been flagged as potentially fraudulent?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau (Prime Minister) : Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our priority from the beginning has been to make sure that Canadians get the support they need. We moved very quickly to get the Canada emergency response benefit out, to get the wage subsidy out and to help Canadians in this unprecedented situation. We recognize there will be challenges, and we are going to work through those challenges. Our priority every step of the way was to make sure we helped as many Canadians as possible.
Mr. Dan Albas: Mr. Chair, can the Prime Minister confirm that the instruction has been given to federal employees to ignore these 200,000 applications being flagged as potentially fraudulent? This is important.
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Our focus has been on helping as many people as we possible can. Our decision from the very beginning was to get the help out to people and figure out, with retroactive action if necessary, where and when there may have been fraudulent use. Our priority was getting that help out.
Mr. Dan Albas: Mr. Chair, this came from a memo issued by a deputy minister. Did the minister's office or the Prime Minister sign off on this memo?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Again, in this unprecedented situation, our focus has been on helping as many people as possible, as quickly as possible. Other parties might have made a different choice had they been in government, but our focus was getting help to people when they needed it as quickly as possible and cleaning it up afterwards.
Mr. Dan Albas: Mr. Chair, I asked a very simple question. Did the Prime Minister or his minister sign off on this memo that was issued by the deputy minister, yes or no?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, we have been focused entirely on getting help to Canadians when they need it, and that has meant that yes, there will be things we will need to clean up after the fact and work to fix, but getting that help into Canadians' pockets during this pandemic was our priority.
Mr. Dan Albas: I'm asking the Prime Minister to show some accountability. Did he or his office sign off on this memo?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, my office and I have been absolutely focused on getting the necessary help to Canadians. Perhaps, as Mr. Albas points out, other parties would have been slower to get the money out. We were flowing money to people who needed it.
Mr. Dan Albas: Mr. Chair, the question was quite simple. Obviously the Prime Minister doesn't seem comfortable with the answer. Will he at least then commit to investigating every individual case of fraud, or will he write them off, as the story said?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr. Chair, in this unprecedented situation Canadians have lost their jobs; they've lost their paycheques; they don't know how they're going to be able to support their loved ones and pay for their groceries. We made a decision as a country that we would be there for them and that has been and will continue to be our priority.
Mr. Dan Albas: Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister can leave the cottage talk for the cottage. We're asking a very simple question here. Will he commit as a government to enforce the rule of law and to enforce the attestation that says that if someone commits fraud, the fraud will be pursued?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: My commitment as Prime Minister and as a government is to support and protect Canadians. That is what we are doing by giving them the support they need through this unprecedented situation. Perhaps other parties don't think it's important to support Canadians. We will keep focused on supporting Canadians.
Mr. Dan Albas: That's not what I'm asking here, Mr. Chair. The Conservatives supported the legislation that allowed those supports to go through. What we are asking about is fraud. All along we've been told fraud would be detected through audits after the fact, and we expect that to happen. Can the Prime Minister at least confirm that this will happen?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: When we made the determination that we needed to move quickly to help Canadians, we knew there would be a need to clean up after the fact, to go after fraudulent cases. We will do that. Our priority now and in the coming months is to ensure Canadians get the support they need, and our economy comes roaring back. That's what we're focused on.
The Chair: We'll now continue with Mr.Ste-Marie.
Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie (Joliette, BQ): Mr.Chair, yesterday, the Prime Minister announced the large employer emergency financing facility. That's good. What's even better is that he announced that the loans would be tied to conditions. One of those conditions forces companies not to resort to tax evasion or tax avoidance through tax havens. Excellent! Unfortunately, I quickly became disillusioned because it is more about abusive tax evasion and avoidance. Basically, we're talking about fraudsters. There are no conditions that would allow us to tighten the screws on profiteers. Companies that legally take advantage of tax havens to avoid paying their taxes will have access to the large employer emergency financing facility. Why does the Prime Minister continue to support the profiteers?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we will always be there to counter tax evasion and tax avoidance. It's a priority of our government. There is no tolerance for tax evasion and tax avoidance. In the current situation, our priority is to help workers across the country who could lose their jobs or who have lost their jobs. That's why we are introducing measures that support workers, who will continue to be our priority.
Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr.Chair, I'm delighted to hear the Prime Minister say that there's no tolerance for tax avoidance. The problem is that his remarks don't reflect reality. Tax avoidance is the legal use of tax havens. The five big Bay Street banks benefit from this, as do the big multinationals. It's time to tighten the screws on these companies. They have to pay their share. Will the Prime Minister and his government outlaw what is immoral?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, when we announced the large employer emergency funding facility, we recognized that those who wanted to receive tax dollars had to have paid their fair share of taxes. That's why we're putting in place measures to carefully assess the tax structures of these businesses before we loan money to them.
Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr.Chair, sometimes a bank will relocate its most profitable activities carried out in Canada and register them in a subsidiary in the Bahamas, Barbados or another tax haven. Does the Prime Minister consider this bank to be paying its fair share of taxes in Canada?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we will assess applications for the large employer emergency funding facility on a case-by-case basis. We don't expect the big banks to need these funds. Before we provide any money, we're going to make sure that whoever wants to access these funds is transparent about how the money is being managed, including internationally.
Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr.Chair, I'll change the subject now. Consumers are paying more and more with their credit cards, which allows contactless payments in shops, not to mention online shopping. This benefits Visa and Mastercard, which charge appallingly high user fees, known as interchange fees. These are almost 10times higher than in Europe and Australia, and it costs our merchants a fortune. Can the Prime Minister follow the example of Europe and Australia by capping interchange fees at0.3%?
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we are always looking for ways to reduce costs for consumers. We have worked with the big banks and the financial industry to ensure that people who need it have access to the help they need. We're reassessing how we can lower costs for consumers. Right now, we're sending money to consumers across the country who need it to get through this crisis. That's what we'll continue to focus on.
Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie: Mr.Chair, the question doesn't concern consumers, but merchants. A credit card company, such as Visa and Mastercard, that charges a fee of 2.5%to3% per transaction undermines the merchant's profit margin and gets richer at the expense of consumers. I invite the Prime Minister to follow the example of Europe and Australia by capping these fees at0.3%.
Right Hon. Justin Trudeau: Mr.Chair, we continue to work with financial institutions and the big banks to help consumers during this exceptional and difficult situation. Of course, there are some things we can look at over the longer term as well.