B: No .
B: No .
C: So that 's maybe the reason .
B: Not me .
C: And I 'm not I doubt that it 's not available in Germany .
C: It 's would be unbelievable to me .
D: Now , do you yeah , do you see the chance for WAP ?
D: I don't see it .
C: It i it is .
C: In in in Sweden it is also there .
C: And in the Netherlands , it is also available .
B: Mmm .
C: every provider provides B: In Spain it 's available
B: but uh you know , uh my main complaint has been all the time that it is difficult to me to believe that I can do interesting work with a 4 lines display .
B: Ah Maybe , check the lottery result or something like this ,
C: Oh .
C: Yeah , but C: Oh !
C: Bu
C: I 'm the first one to admit that 's a h that it is a hype ,
B: but C: but and but I 'm I just wanted to say it is being used .
C: But if it makes sense to me and to especially to have WAP in in between , no .
C: I 'm not a supporter of it .
B: Huh - huh - huh .
C: So they have this optimized protocol to to transmit a few ASCII bytes that can rescr refresh the screen with a different animation every , well , second , a few times .
D: Yeah .
C: So , that 's that 's true .
C: I immediately agree .
C: But the thing was , y you just asked well , " will will it be the same , will there be WAP for UMTS " and so on , QPRS .
B: Well
C: And well I don't have the answer ,
B: I I don't know what will C: but I thought it was not .
C: I 'm just It 's weird it 's weird to stop doing it with GPRS .
A: Yeah .
B: Hmm - hmm - hmm .
A: But usually WAP shouldn't is so general that it can be used with UMTS .
A: So if you still want to use WAP with UMTS you might be able to do it .
A: But
C: Yes .
A: that shouldn't be your only way of D: There 's a gate You can put the gateway C: if you want to do it in a in a mobile phone want to implement it , as a light stack or something .
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
C: Yes ?
D: Yep .
C: Sure .
A: But usually that 's not the reason to have UMTS .
C: No , not not if you have a big uh web pad or something .
A: Yep .
C: Then you m There there 's an IP stack in it
D: Mm - hmm .
C: and D: Mm - hmm .
D: So maybe I would like to ask Claudia ,
C: Hmm .
D: you read the proposal in the meantime ?
G: Yeah , but the task changed really a lot ,
D: Yeah .
G: so , I 'd I rather would like to
D: Yes , that 's right .
D: And do you have some comments on it
D: from the next this is version zero dot five right , yeah .
G: Yeah , but I 'd rather like to follow the discussion before I gave any comments ,
G: cuz it 's really The first point is it 's much more than it was before I left ,
G: so it 's like five weeks in between , so it 's like that whew !
G: that big now .
D: That 's right .
G: And it really changed a lot
D: Yeah .
G: cuz the I mean I found the classroom inside
G: but , the thing where I left the discussion was that we are talking about uh a classroom where you know everybody could look on with any kind of device and follow lectures or do exercise or whatever .
G: So .
G: Now we are talking about something which is much more precise
G: and the the range of stuff is maybe more narrow than before
G: so I 'd rather like to to follow it a bit , and then to get more into the ideas .
C: So
D: OK .
C: c Can I do another one , like
C: UMTS or wireless u i generally are will be m more expensive .
C: And especially UMTS .
C: If they want to get back the money .
C: So is it maybe a research topic to focus on the C: not really billing , of course .
C: I wouldn't C: but at least the different application of protocol - based usage .
C: So you have uh one connection , one application uses FTP whatever ,
C: bit voice or some other C: That those type of application you m may might want to make more out of a megabit per second or something .
C: Could that be something ,
C: or ?
D: Also we want to go more in the triple - A area . Right ?
D: Because billing alone
C: Or is n
C: No Well , it 's D: Or or ac um Billing is related to accounting ,
C: e
D: Accounting is related to Authentification and Authorization .
C: Yeah , that 's true .
D: So .
D: And then you are still at the triple - A service uh activity
C: Yeah , that 's right .
D: and nobody is has the skills to deal with that .
D: And then we are leaving our scope anyway .
C: OK .
A: My impression on this proposal is that every single block has some research done already .
A: So , multicast . This means that there are many things done .
A: Oh , what was it ?
A: Maybe I was routing mobility management
A: But no one actually put them together .
D: Yeah . That 's A: But So that 's the big problem .
D: That is a A: But the problem with this problem , might be that it 's too big
A: to put all these big pieces to
G: What do you mean by " put together " ?
A: So that you really have a complete a complete scenario .
D: As it What I mean , the synergy effect , right ?
D: From from D: Yeah .
A: You have , in one scenario , multicast , quality of service , routing and mobile um networking .
D: Yeah .
G: Ah .
G: Mm - hmm .
A: Not just the islands alone .
D: Yeah . I
G: So why I wasn't ,
G: well , yeah , uh hold myself back a bit with comments , is uh cuz when I left the discussion , the discussion was what to to have something like a big umbrella about everybody who was at this point , here .
G: And so the discussion was much broader than it is maybe right now .
G: And there I had the impression the umbrella was this kind of classroom thing .
G: Right ?
G: Or wrong ?
D: Yeah , in principle , it is related to the current state .
D: But the networking stuff is more explained in much more detail
G: Yeah , yeah , yeah . It is .
G: Of course .
D: and the work packages are better ident oder what c could be derived for work packages is much better aligned .
G: Yeah .
G: Yeah , yeah , yeah .
G: That 's that 's clear .
D: But that has not changed , yeah ?
G: But
G: Yeah , that 's that 's clear ,
G: but then I don't get G: because when we were discussion discussing this uh stuff weeks ago , uh I had the impression that , you know , everything of these work packages uh fit together under this one big umbrella .
G: And now it sounds different .
G: So that 's what I don't understand .
G: Ah but , it 's also because I missed the last four weeks .
G: So .
D: Yeah , the problem is if you G: It 's a a bit hard for me to follow the development what happened in the last four weeks ,
D: Yeah OK maybe one sentence one sentence .
G: why it changed so .
D: If you 're focussing on the argument chain as follows . I have an application .
D: This application has certain kind of requirements .
D: These requirements are , maybe , Multicast and and and quality of service and mobility
D: access and then mobility management
D: and  That is it .
D: I want to focus on it .
D: Then you have in mind that Or you must have in mind that all other applications and all other networking stuff is not affected by this .
D: That you can use it with every application
D: and if you introduce some new mechanism in the network , that is not related only to interactive multimedia applications like the classroom , it must be fit end to end .
D: And if you assume something , like we discussed it , very hard with with Multicast , that you assume that Multicast will be available at certain portions of the network or if you if you want to have it end to end , this mechanism must be applied really for all throughout of the internet .
D: Otherwise it makes no sense ,
D: and we come to the conclusion , " OK , uh Multicast , we must deal with both approaches " ,
D: that you have eh application layer Multicast
D: as well as maybe some other Multicast and maybe really Multicast
D: and then the point is how to select these mechanism if you want to have not a certain kind of access to the server elsewhere in the network you want to use any application .
G: So if I understandi it right , what has changed is before we were focussing on D: Yeah ,
D: and G: So Cuz what 's difficult for me is what is meant by " application " ?
G: So . Cuz I have sometimes the impression that everybody is defining " application " in different way .
G: So , what exactly is mean by " application " ?
D: The application , for instance , here , that eh the interactive classroom .
D: But elsewhere any application in in in any kind of video audio
G: Yeah .
G: Oh , OK .
G: So , what has changed D: or whatever kind of game server
D: what - whatever kind of interactive multimedia especially do uh downstreaming applications maybe eh video on demand then , eh whatever kind of application you can consider .
G: So what has changed is that we 're not only focussing on this intelligent classroom , but on everything .
D: Not on everything .
D: That 's not true .
D: But we s
D: That 's why we say here , that we have a certain kind of eh possibility to change in the access networks .
G: Mm - hmm .
D: That means the wireless networks
D: because that provides , in principle , the mobility .
D: And these mechan
D: And you see that there 's a trend to provide IP functionality more and more in these kind of networks .
D: But the problem is that you could not focus on this kind of um technology only for the access network .