C: And um now all w that 's left to do then is the CPG 's , the conditional probabilities , for the likelihood of a person having enough money , actually wanting to go a place if it costs , you know this or that .
C: And um OK .
C: and once um Bhaskara has finished his classwork that 's where we 're gonna end up doing .
C: You get involved in that process too .
C: And um And for now uh the the question is " How much of these decisions do we want to build in explicitly into our data collection ? "
C: So Um , one could sort of think of C: you know we could call the z see or you know , people who visit the zoo
C: we could s call it " Visit the zoo tomorrow " ,
C: so we have an intention of seeing something , but not now but later .
D: Right .
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah , so let 's s uh s see I th I think that from one point of view , Uh , um , all these places are the same ,
D: so that d d That , um in terms of the linguistics and stuff , there may be a few different kinds of places ,
D: so I th i it seems to me that We ought to decide you know , what things are k are actually going to matter to us .
D: And um , so the zoo , and the university and the castle , et cetera . Um are all big - ish things that um you know have different parts to them , and one of them might be fine .
C: Hmm .
C: Hmm , hmm .
D: And C: Yeah The the reason why we did it that way , as a as a reminder , is uh no person is gonna do all of them .
C: They 're just gonna select u um , according to their preferences .
D: Yeah , yeah .
C: " Ah , yeah , I usually visit zoos , or I usually visit castles , or I usually "
C: And then you pick that one .
D: Right , no no ,
D: but but s th point is to to y to build a system that 's got everything in it that might happen you do one thing .
E: They 're redundant .
D: T to build a system that um had the most data on a relatively confined set of things , you do something else .
D: And the speech people , for example , are gonna do better if they if things come up uh repeatedly .
D: Now , of course , if everybody says exactly the same thing then it 's not interesting .
D: So , all I 'm saying is i th there 's there 's a kind of question of what we 're trying t to accomplish .
D: and I think my temptation for the data gathering would be to uh ,
D: you know And each person is only gonna do it once ,
D: so you don't have to worry about them being bored ,
D: so if if it 's one service , one luxury item , you know , one big - ish place , and so forth and so on , um then my guess is that that the data is going to be easier to handle .
D: Now of course you have this I guess possible danger that somehow there 're certain constructions that people use uh when talking about a museum that they wouldn't talk about with a university and stuff ,
D: um but I guess I 'm I uh m my temptation is to go for simpler .
D: You know , less variation .
D: But I don't know what other people think about this in terms of D: uh B: So I don't exactly understand B: like I I I guess we 're trying to limit the detail of our ontology or types of places that someone could go ,
B: right ?
B: But who is it that has to care about this ,
B: or what component of the system ?
D: Oh ,
D: well , uh th I think there are two places where it comes up .
D: One is uh in the th these people who are gonna take this and and try to do speech with it .
B: Mm - hmm .
D: uh Lots of pronunciations of th of the same thing are going to give you better data than l you know , a few pronunciations of lots more things .
B: OK .
D: That 's one .
B: So we would rather just ask uh have a bunch of people talk about the zoo ,
B: uh and assume that that will that the constructions that they use there will give us everything we need to know about these sort of zoo , castle , whatever type things , these bigger places .
D: Bigger D: Y yeah thi well this is a question for B: And that way you get the speech data of people saying " zoo " over and over again or whatever too .
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
B: OK .
D: So this is a question for you ,
B: Mm - hmm .
D: and , you know , if we if we do , and we probably will , actually try to uh build a prototype , uh
D: probably we could get by with the prototype only handling a few of them anyway .
D: So , Um C: Yeah , the this was sort of these are all different sort of activities .
C: Um But I think y I I got the point and I think I like it .
C: We can do put them in a more hierarchical fashion .
C: So , " Go to place " and then give them a choice ,
C: you know either they 're the symphony type or opera type or the tourist site guide type or the nightclub disco type person and they say " yeah this is on that " go to big - ish place " ,
C: this is what I would do . "
B: Mm - hmm .
C: And then we have the " Fix " thing , and then maybe " Do something the other day " thing ,
C: so . My question is C: I guess , to some extent , we should y we just have to try it out and see if it works .
C: It would be challenging , in in a sense , to try to make it so so complex that they even really should schedule , or to plan it , uh , a more complex thing in terms of
C: OK ,
C: you know , they should get the feeling that there are these s six things they have to do
C: and they sh can be done maybe in two days .
D: Well D: yeah .
D: Well I think th th
C: So they make these decisions ,
D: yeah .
C: " Can I go there tomorrow ? "
C: or you know influences
D: Yeah .
B: Mm - hmm .
D: Well , I think it 's easy enough to set that up if that 's your expectation .
D: So , the uh system could say , " Well , uh we 'd like to to set up your program for two days in Heidelberg ,
D: you know , let 's first think about all the things you might like to do .
D: So there th i i in I mean in I th I I 'm sure that if that 's what you did then they would start telling you about that , and then you could get into um various things about ordering , if you wanted .
C: Mm - hmm .
C: Yeah .
C: Yeah , but I think this is part of the instructor 's job .
C: And that can be done , sort of to say , " OK now we 've picked these six tasks . "
C: " Now you have you can call the system and you have two days . "
C: And th w
D: I 'm sorry .
D: No , we have to help we have to decide .
D: Fey will p carry out whatever we decide .
D: But we have to decide you know , what is the appropriate scenario .
D: That 's what we 're gonna talk about t yeah .
C: Yep , yep .
F: But these are two different scenarios entirely .
F: I mean , one is a planner The other , it kind of give you instructions on the spot
C: Yeah , but th the I don't I 'm not really interested in sort of " Phase planning " capabilities .
C: But it 's more the how do people phrase these planning requests ?
C: So are we gonna masquerade the system as this as you said simple response system ,
C: " I have one question I get one response " ,
C: or should we allow for a certain level of complexity .
C: And a I w think the data would be nicer if we get temporal references .
D: Well , so Keith , what do you think ?
B: Well , um it seems that B: Yeah , I mean ,
B: off the top of my head it kinda seems like you would probably just want , you know , richer data ,
B: more complex stuff going on ,
B: people trying to do more complex sets of things .
B: I mean you know , if our goal is to really sort of be able to handle a whole bunch of different stuff , then throwing harder situations at people will get them to do more linguistic more interesting linguistic stuff .
B: But I mean I 'm I 'm not really sure
B: Uh , because I don't fully understand like what our choices are of ways to do this here yet .
C: I mean w we have tested this and a y
C: have you heard listen to the f first two or th
C: as a matter of fact the second person is uh is was faced with exactly this kind of setup .
C: And B: I started to listen to one and it was just like , um , uh , sort of depressing .
B: I thought I 'd just sort of listen to the beginning part and the person was just sort of reading off her script or something .
B: And .
C: Oh , OK .
D: Yeah .
C: That was the first subject .
B: Yeah .
D: First one wasn't very good .
B: Yeah .
C: Yeah .
B: So um , I E: Although C: Um , it is already with this it got pretty with this setup and that particular subject it got pretty complex .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: Maybe I suggest we make some fine tuning of these , get sort of run through ten or so subjects
B: Mm - hmm .
C: and then take a breather ,
C: and see whether we wanna make it more complex or not , depending on what what sort of results we 're getting .
B: Right .
B: Yeah .
B: It In fact , um , I am just you know today , next couple days gonna start really diving into this data .
B: I 've basically looked at one of the files B: you know one of these B: l y y y you gave me those dozens of files
B: and I looked at one of them which was about ten sentences , found fifteen , twenty different construction types that we would have to look for and so on
B: and like , " alright , well , let 's start here . "
B: Um . So I haven't really gone into the , you know looked at all of the stuff that 's going on .
B: So I don't really B: Right , I mean , once I start doing that I 'll have more to say about this kind of thing .
D: OK .
C: And y and always D: But well th but you did say something important , which is that um you can probably keep yourself fairly well occupied uh with the simple cases for quite a while .
B: Yeah .
D: Although , obviously th so so that sa s does suggest that D: Uh , now , I have looked at all the data , and it 's pre it 's actually at least to an amateur , quite redundant .
D: That that it was it was very stylized , and quite a lot of people said more or less the same thing .
B: Yeah , Yeah .
B: I um I did sort of scan it at first and noticed that , and then looked in detail at one of them .
D: Yeah .
B: But yeah , yeah I noticed that , too .
D: So , we we we wanna do more than that .
C: And with this we 're getting more .
D: OK .
C: No question .
D: Right .
D: So C: uh w do we wanna get going beyond more , which is sort of the D: Well , OK , so let 's let 's take let 's I D: I think your suggestion is good , which is we 'll do a b uh a batch .
D: OK .
D: And , uh ,
D: Fey , How long is it gonna be till you have ten subjects ?
D: Couple days ?
D: Or thr f a A week ?
D: Or I don't I don't have a feel for th
E: Um I can Yeah , I mean I s I think can probably schedule ten people , uh , whenever .
D: Well , it 's it 's up to you ,
D: I mean I j I uh e We don't have any huge time pressure .
D: It 's just when you have t
E: How long will it be ?
E: Um I I would say maybe two weeks .
D: Yeah .
D: Oh , OK .
D: So let 's do this .
D: Let 's plan next Monday , OK , to have a review of what we have so far .
D: and C: This means audio , but D: Huh ?
C: no transcriptions of course ,
D: No , we won't have the transcriptions ,
C: yeah .
D: but what we should be able to do
D: and I don't know if , Fey , if you will have time to do this ,
D: but it would be great if you could , um , not transcribe it all , but pick out uh , some stuff .
D: I mean we could lis uh just sit here and listen to it all .
D: Are you gonna have the audio on the web site ?
D: OK .
C: Until we reach the gigabyte thing and David Johnson s ki kills me . And we 're gonna put it on the web site . Yeah .
D: Oh , we could get D: I mean , you can buy another disk for two hundred dollars ,
D: right ?
D: I mean it 's it 's not like D: OK .
D: So , we 'll take care of David Johnson .
D: OK .
C: No , he uh , he he has been solving all our problems or is wonderful ,
E: Take care of him .
D: OK .
C: so s
D: Alright .
D: So we 'll buy a disk .
D: But anyway , so , um , If you if you can think of a way to uh , point us to th to interesting things , sort of as you 're doing this or or something
D: uh , make your make notes or something that that this is , you know , something worth looking at .
D: And other than that , yeah I guess we 'll just have to uh , listen D: although I guess it 's only ten minutes each ,
D: right ?
D: Roughly .
E: Well , I guess .
E: I 'm not sure how long it 's actually going to take .
C: The reading task is a lot shorter .
C: That was cut by fifty percent .
C: And the reading ,
C: nobody 's interested in that except for the speech people .
D: Right .
D: No , we don't care about that at all .
C: So .
C: It 's actually like five minutes dialogue .
D: I b My guess is it 's gonna be ten .
D: People C: Ten minutes is long .
D: I understand ,
D: but people people you know uh E: It feels like a long time
E: but .
C: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
C: It feels like forever when you 're doing it ,
C: but then it turns out to be three minutes and forty five seconds .
D: Yeah .
D: Could be .
B: Yeah .
D: OK .
D: I was thinking people would , you know , hesitate and Whatever .
D: Whatever it is we 'll we 'll deal with it .
C: Yeah , it 's not D: OK , so that 'll be that 'll be um on on the web page .
C: And it 's fun .
C: OK .
D: That 's great .
D: Um But anyway yeah , so I think it 's a good idea to start with the sort of relatively straight forward res just response system .
D: And then if we want to uh get them to start doing uh multiple step planning with a whole bunch of things and then organize them
D: an um
D: tell them which things are near each other
D: and D: you know , any of that stuff .
D: uh You know , " Which things would you like to do Tuesday morning ? "
C: Yeah .
D: So yeah I th that seems pretty straight forward .
E: But were you saying that C: I need those back by the way .
D: OK .
E: Yeah .
B: OK .
C: That 's for D: I 'm sorry , Fey , what ?
E: That w maybe one thing we should do is go through this list and sort of select things that are categories and then o offer only one member of that category ?
D: That 's what I was suggesting for the first round , yeah .
E: OK .
B: So rather than having zoo and castle .
E: And then , I mean , they could be alternate versions of the same If you wanted data on different constructions .
D: They could , but i but i uh tha eh they c
D: yeah , but uh but E: Like one person gets the version with the zoo as a choice , and the other person gets the D: You could ,
D: but i but I I I think in the short run , C: And
C: no , th the per
C: the person don't get it .
C: I mean , this is why we did it , because when we gave them just three tasks for w part - A and three tasks for part - B a
D: Right .
D: Yeah .
E: Well no , they could still choose .
E: They just wouldn't be able to choose both zoo and say , touring the castle .
C: Exactly .
C: This is limiting the choices , but yeah .
C: Right .
C: OK , sorry .
C: But um I I think this approach will very well work ,
C: but the person was able to look at it and say " OK , This is what I would actually do . "
E: Yeah .
D: OK .
C: Yeah .
C: OK .
E: He was vicious .
C: OK , we gotta we gotta disallow uh traveling to zoos and uh castles at the same time , sort of E: I mean there they are significantly different , but .
C: But no , they 're I mean they 're sort of this is where tour becomes you know
C: tourists maybe a bit different
E: Yeah , I guess so .
C: and , um , these are just places where you you enter um , much like here .
D: Yeah .
C: But we can uh D: Yeah , in fact if y if y if you use the right verb for each in common ,
D: like at you know , " attend a theater , symphony or opera " is is a group ,
D: and " tour the university , castle or zoo " ,
C: mm - hmm Yeah .
D: all of these d do have this kind of " tour " um aspect about the way you would go to them .
D: And uh , the movie theater is probably also uh e is a " attend " et cetera .
C: Attend ,
C: yeah .
D: So it may turn out to be not so many different kinds of things ,
C: Hmm , mm - hmm .
D: and then , what one would expect is that that the sentence types would uh their responses would tend to be grouped according to the kind of activity , you would expect .
B: Mm - hmm .
F: But I mean i it seem that um there is a difference between going to see something , and things like " exchange money " or " dine out "
D: Oh , absolutely .
D: Yeah .
F: uh @ @ function , yeah .
C: Yeah , this is where C: yeah C: th the function stuff is definitely different and the getting information or g stuff yeah .
C: OK .
C: But this is open .
C: So since people gonna still pick something , we we 're not gonna get any significant amount of redundancy .
C: And for reasons , we don't want it , really , in that sense .
C: And um we would be ultimately more interested in getting all the possible ways of people asking , oh , for different things with or with a computer .
C: And so if you can think of any other sort of high level tasks a tourist may do just always just m mail them to us and we 'll sneak them into the collection .
C: We 're not gonna do much statistical stuff with it .
D: We don't have enough .
C: No .
C: But it seems like since we since we are getting towards uh subject uh fifty subjects
C: and if we can keep it up um to a uh sort of five four - ish per week rate , we may even reach the one hundred before Fey t takes off to Chicago .
E: That means that one hundred people have to be interested .
B: Good luck .
E: Yeah .
D: Well , um , these are all f people off campus s from campus so far ,
E: Yeah .
D: right ?
E: Yeah .
D: So we yeah we don't know how many we can get next door at the uh shelter for example .
B: Hmm .
D: Uh for ten bucks , probably quite a few .
B: Yeah .
B: That 's right .
D: Yeah .
D: So , alright , so let 's go let 's go back then , to the the chart with all the decisions and stuff , and see how we 're doing .
C: Yep .
D: Do do people think that , you know this is is gonna um cover what we need , or should we be thinking about more ?
C: Okay , in terms of decision nodes ?
D: Yep .
C: I mean , Go - there is is a yes or no .
C: Right ?
D: Yep .
B: Mm - hmm .
C: I 'm also interested in th in this " property " uh line here ,
C: so if you look at sorry , look at that
C: um , timing was um I have these three .
C: Do we need a final differentiation there ?
C: Now , later on the same tour , sometimes on the next tour .
B: What 's this idea of " next tour " ?
B: I mean C: It 's sort of next day ,
C: so you 're doing something now and you have planned to do these three four things ,
B: Mm - hmm .
C: and you can do something immediately ,
B: Mm - hmm .
C: you could sort of tag it on to that tour
B: Or OK .
C: or you can say this is something I would do s I wanna do sometime l in my life , basically .
B: OK .
B: OK .
B: So so this tour is sort of just like th the idea of current s round of of touristness or whatever ,
D: Right .
D: Yeah .
B: OK .
D: Yeah , probably between stops back at the hotel .
B: OK .
B: Got it .
D: I mean if you if if you wanted precise about it , uh you know ,
B: Got it .
D: uh and I think that 's the way tourists do organize their lives .
B: Sure , sure , sure .
D: You know , " OK , we 'll go back to the hotel and then we 'll go off