PhD A: Oh I just uh  Mmm , I just use um our loudness - based things now as they before there were they were some in in the log domain and I I changed this to the to the Professor E: Cu - Cube root ?
PhD A: Yeah . To No , I changed this to the to the to the loudness thingy with the with the
Grad C: Hmm .
Professor E: Ah .
PhD A: how do you call it ? I 'm not sure . With the , uh Professor E: Fletcher Munson ? No .
PhD A: I 'm not sure about the term .
Professor E: Oh , OK .
PhD A: Uh , I 'll look it up . And say it to you .
Professor E: Yeah , alright .
PhD A: Uh , OK , and Yeah . That 's that 's basically the the the thing . Yeah , and I and I tried t to normalize uh uh the features , there 's loudness and modified loudness , um , within one channel ,
Professor E: OK .
PhD A: because they 're , yeah to to be able to distinguish between foreground and background speech . And it works quite well . But , not always .
Professor E: Uh - huh . Uh - huh .
PhD A: So .
Professor E: OK .
Grad C: Good .
Professor E: Um , let 's see . I think the uh Were were you basically done with the transcription part ? So I guess the next thing is this uh bleep editing .
Grad C: Right . So the The idea is that we need to have We need to provide the transcripts to every participant of every meeting to give them an opportunity to bleep out sections they don't want . So I 've written a bunch of tools that will generate web pages , uh with the transcription in it so that they can click on them and piece pieces and they can scroll through and read them , and then they can check on each one if they want it excluded . And then , it 's a form , HTML form , so they can submit it and it will end up sending me email with the times that they want excluded . And so , uh , some of the questions on this is what do we do about the privacy issue . And so I thought about this a little bit and I think the best way to do it is every participant will have a password ,
Professor E: Yeah .
Grad C: a single password . Each person will have a single password , user name and password . And then each meeting , we 'll only allow the participants who were at that meeting to look at it . And that way each person only has to remember one password .
Professor E: I I can't help but wonder if this is maybe a little more elaborate than is needed . I mean if people have Uh , I mean , for me I would actually want to have some pieces of paper that had the transcription and I would sort of flip through it . And then um if I thought it was OK , I 'd say " it 's OK " .
Grad C: Mm - hmm .
Professor E: And , I uh I mean it depends how this really ends up working out , but I guess my thought was that the occasion of somebody wondering whether something was OK or not and needing to listen to it was gonna be extremely rare .
Grad C: Right , I mean so th th th the fact that you could listen to it over the web is a minor thing that I had already done for other reasons .
Professor E: OK .
Grad C: And so that that 's a minor part of it , I just wanted some web interface so that people you didn't actually have to send everyone the text . So m what my intention to do is that as the transcripts become ready , um I would take them , and generate the web pages and send email to every participant or contact them using the contact method they wanted , and just uh , tell them , " here 's the web page " , um , " you need a password " . So th th question number one is how do we distribute the passwords , and question number two is how else do we wanna provide this information if they want it .
Professor E: That 's I think what I was sort of saying is that if you just say " here is a here is " I mean this maybe it sounds paleolithic but but I just thought if you handed them some sheets of paper , that said , uh , " here 's what was said in this transcription is it OK with you ? and if it is , here 's this other sheet of paper that you sign that says that it 's OK " .
Grad C: I think that um there are a subset of people who will want printouts that we can certainly provide .
Professor E: And then they 'd hand it back to you .
Grad C: But certainly I wouldn't want a printout . These are big , and I would much rather be ha be able to just sit and leaf through it .
Professor E: You find it easier to go through a large I mean how do you read books ?
Grad C: Well I certainly read books by hand . But for something like this , I think it 's easier to do it on the web .
Professor E: Really ? I mean , it Grad C: Cuz you 're gonna get , you know , if I I 'm I 'm in a bunch of meetings and I don't wanna get a stack of these . I wanna just be able to go to go to the web site {comment} and visit it as I want .
Professor E: Going to a web site is easy , but flipping through a hundred pounds a hundred pages of stuff is not easy on the web .
Grad C: Well , I don't think it 's that much harder than , paper . So .
Professor E: Really ?
Postdoc F: I have one question . So are you thinking that um the person would have a transcript and go strictly from the transcript ? Because I I do think that there 's a benefit to being able to hear the tone of voice and the Professor E: So here 's the way I was imagining it , and maybe I 'm wrong ,
Postdoc F: Yeah .
Professor E: but the way I imagined it was that um , the largest set of people is gonna go " oh yeah , I didn't say anything funny in that meeting just go ahead , where 's the where 's the release ? " And then there 'll be a subset of people , right ? OK there 's I mean think of who it is we 've been recording mostly .
PhD A: Yeah .
Professor E: OK there 'll be a subset of people , who um , will say uh " well , yeah , I really would like to see that . " And for them , the easiest way to flip through , if it 's a really large document , I mean unless you 're searching . Searching , of course , should be electronic , but if you 're not so if you provide some search mechanism you go to every place they said something or something like that ,
PhD A: Yeah .
Professor E: but see then we 're getting more elaborate with this thing . Um if if uh you don't have search mechanisms you just sort of have this really , really long document , I mean whenever I 've had a really , really long document that it was sitting on the web , I 've always ended up printing it out . I mean , so it 's it 's I mean , you you 're you 're not necessarily gonna be sitting at the desk all the time , you wanna figure you have a train ride , and there 's all these situations where where I I mean , this is how I was imagining it , anyway . And then I figured , that out of that group , there would be a subset who would go " hmm you know I 'm really not sure about this section here , " and then that group would need it S It seems like i if I 'm right in that , it seems like you 're setting it up for the most infrequent case , rather than for the most frequent case . So that uh , now we have to worry about privacy ,
Grad C: Well , no fre for the most Professor E: we have to worry about all these passwords , for different people
Grad C: For the most frequent case they just say " it 's OK " and then they 're done . And I think almost everyone would rather do that by email than any other method .
Professor E: Mm - hmm .
Postdoc F: The other thing too is it seems like Professor E: Um , yeah , that 's true .
Postdoc F: Go ahead .
Grad C: I mean , cuz you don't have to visit the web page if you don't want to .
PhD A: Yeah .
Professor E: I guess Yeah , I guess we don't need their signature . I guess an email OK is alright .
Grad C: Oh that was another thing I I had assumed that we didn't need their signature , that it that an email approval was sufficient . But I don't actually know .
PhD B: Are are people going to be allowed to bleep out sections of a meeting where they weren't speaking ?
Grad C: Yes . If someone feels strongly enough about it , then I I I think they should be allowed to do that .
Postdoc F: I also mm - hmm .
PhD B: So that means other people are editing what you say ?
Professor E: Uh I don't know about that .
Grad C: Yeah .
PhD B: I don't know if I like that .
Grad C: Well , the only other choice is that the person would say " no , don't distribute this meeting at all " , and I would rather they were able to edit out other people then just say " don't distribute it at all " .
Professor E: But th what they signed in the consent form , was something that said you can use my voice .
Grad C: Well , but if if someone is having a conversation , and you only bleep out one side of it , that 's not sufficient .
Professor E: Right ? Yeah . Yeah , but that 's our decision then . Right ?
Grad C: Um , I don't think so . I mean , because if I object to the conversation .
Professor E: I think it is .
Grad C: If I say " we were having a conversation , and I consider that conversation private , " and I consider that your side of it is enough for other people to infer , I wanna be able to bleep out your side .
Postdoc F: The I agree that the consent forms were uh , I cons agree with what Adam 's saying , that um , the consent form did leave open this possibility that they could edit things which they found offensive whe whether they said them or didn't say them .
Professor E: I see . OK , well , if that 's what it said .
Postdoc F: And the other thing is from the standpoint of the l of the l I 'm not a law lawyer , but it strikes me that uh , we wouldn't want someone to say " oh yes , I was a little concerned about it but it was too hard to access " . So I think it 's kind of nice to have this facility to listen to it . Now in terms of like editing it by hand , I mean I think it 's i some people would find that easier to specify the bleep part by having a document they edited . But but it seems to me that sometimes um , you know i if a person had a bad day , and they had a tone in their voice that they didn't really like , you know it 's nice it 's nice to be able to listen to it and be sure that that was OK .
Grad C: I mean I can certainly provide a printable version if people want it . Um .
Professor E: Um I mean it 's also a mixture of people , I mean some people are r do their work primarily by sitting at the computer , flipping around the web , and others do not .
Grad C: Yep .
Professor E: Others would consider it this uh a a set of skills that they would have to gain . You know ?
Grad C: Well I think most of the people in the meetings are the former .
Professor E: It depends on what meetings .
Postdoc F: That 's true .
PhD B: So far .
Grad C: So .
Professor E: In the meetings so far , yeah .
Grad C: Yep .
Professor E: But we 're trying to expand this , right ?
Grad C: Right .
Professor E: So I I I actually think that paper is the more universal thing .
Grad C: And that Well , but if they want to print it out that 's alright .
Postdoc F: Mm - hmm . Yeah .
Grad C: I think everyone in the meeting can access the web .
Professor E: No , I think we have to be able to print it out . It 's not just if they want to print it out . I I think Grad C: OK , so does that mean that I can't use email ? Or what ?
Postdoc F: Cuz you could send it through email you 're thinking .
Professor E: I I th
Grad C: Well , I don't think I Professor E: well we there was this Grad C: well I don't think we can send the text through email because of the privacy issues .
Professor E: No .
Postdoc F: Good . For security ?
PhD A: Yeah .
Postdoc F: Yeah , OK good .
Professor E: Right .
Grad C: Um . So giving them , you think a web site to say , " if you wanna print it out here it is " , is not sufficient ?
Postdoc F: Good point .
PhD A: Yeah . I
Professor E: Certainly for everybody who 's been in the meetings so far it would be sufficient .
Grad C: Yeah , I 'm just thinking for people that that 's not sufficient for , what the only sufficient thing would be for me to walk up to them and hand it to them .
Professor E: I 'm just wondering about Postdoc F: You could mail it to them .
PhD A: Yeah .
Postdoc F: Get an a mailing address .
Grad C: Equivalent .
PhD A: But Postdoc F: But I think it 's easier to drop in the box .
PhD A: Just put the button on on the web page which say " please send me the the scripts " .
Grad C: That 's right .
Postdoc F: Oh that 's interesting .
PhD A: Yeah .
PhD B: What um When you display it on the web page , what are what are you showing them ? Utterances , or ?
Grad C: Mm - hmm .
PhD B: And so can they bleep within an utterance ?
Grad C: No . Whole utterances only .
PhD B: Whole utterances .
Grad C: And that was just convenience for my sake , that it 's uh , uh it would end up being fairly difficult to edit the transcripts if we would do it at the sub - utterance level . Because this way I can just delete an entire line out of a transcript file rather than have to do it by hand .
Professor E: There 's another aspect to this which maybe is part of why this is bothering me . Um , I think you 're really trying very hard to make this as convenient as possible for people to do this .
PhD B: Mmm .
Grad C: I mean that 's why I did the web form , because for me that would be my most convenient .
Professor E: I I I understand .
PhD B: I know where you 're going .
Professor E: I think that 's the bad idea .
Grad C: Oh .
Professor E: See because you 're gon you 're uh Really . You 're gonna end up with all these little patchy things , whereas really what we want to do is have the the the bias towards letting it go . Because nob you know it There was a one or twi once or twice , in the re in the meetings we 've heard , where somebody said something that they might be embarrassed by , but overall people are talking about technical topics . Nobody 's gonna get hurt . Nobody 's being l libeled . You know , this is this we 're we 're covering We 're playing the lawyer 's game , and we 're playing we 're we 're we 're looking for the extreme case . If we really orient it towards that extreme case , make it really easy , we 're gonna end up encouraging a headache . That I think that 's I 'm sort of psyching myself out here , I I 'm trying to uh Grad C: I guess I don't see having a few phrases here and there in a meeting being that mu much of a headache , bleeped out .
Professor E: but I I think that 's Well , it 's Grad C: So .
PhD B: I think what Morgan 's saying is the easier it is , the more is gonna be bleeped .
Professor E: but i And and it really depends on what kind of research you 're doing . I think some researchers who are gonna be working with this corpus years from now are really gonna be cursing the fact that there 's a bunch of stuff in there {comment} that 's missing from the dialogue .
Grad C: Mm - hmm .
Professor E: You know , it depends on the kind of research they 're doing ,
PhD A: Yeah .
Professor E: but it might be , uh it might be really a a pain . And , you know where it 's really gonna hurt somebody , in some way the one who said it or someone who is being spoken about , {comment} we definitely want to allow the option of it being bleeped out . But I really think we wanna make it the rare incidence . And and uh , I am just a little worried about making it so easy for people to do , and so much fun ! that they 're gonna go through and bleep out stuff .
Postdoc F: So much fun .
Professor E: and they can bleep out stuff they don't like too , right from somebody else , as you say , you know , so " well I didn't like what he said . "
Grad C: Well I don't see any way of avoiding that . I mean , we have to provi we have promised that we would provide them the transcript and that they can remove parts that they don't like . So that the Professor E: Yeah . No , no , I I I don't Grad C: The only question is Professor E: You - you 've talked me into that , but I I just think that we should make it harder to do .
Grad C: The problem is if it 's harder for them it 's also harder for me . Whereas this web interface , I just get email , it 's all formatted , it 's all ready to go and I can just insert it .
Professor E: So maybe you don't give them access to the web interface unless they really need it . So so so
Postdoc F: Well I guess Yeah .
Professor E: I 'm sorry so so So maybe this is a s a way out of it .
Postdoc F: Hmm .
Professor E: You 've provided something that 's useful for you to do handle , and useful for someone else if they need it . But I think the issue of privacy and ease and so forth should be that uh , they get access to this if they really need it .
Grad C: Well PhD B: So you 're saying the the sequence would be more like first Adam goes to the contact lists , contacts them via whatever their preferred method is , to see if they want to review the meeting .
Professor E: Right .
PhD B: And then if they don't , you 're done . If they do , then he provides them access to the the web site .
Grad C: Well , to some extent I have to do that anyway because as I said we have to distribute passwords .
Professor E: W w
PhD B: Or a printed - out form .
Professor E: There 's there Grad C: So ,
Professor E: y but you don't necessarily have to distribute passwords is what I 'm saying .
Grad C: Well , but Professor E: So PhD B: Only if they want it .
Grad C: what I 'm saying is that I can't just email them the password because that 's not secure . So they have to call me and ask .
Professor E: No , no , no . But you aren't necessarily giving them Right . But we don't even necessarily need to end up distributing passwords at all .
PhD A :
Grad C: Well , we do because of privacy . We can't just make it openly available on the web .
Professor E: No , no . You 're missing the point .
Postdoc F: Mm - hmm .
Professor E: We 're We 're trying i We 're trying to make it less of an obvious just l l l l uh fall off a log , to do this .
Postdoc F: Not everyone gets a password , unless they ask for it .
Professor E: Right ? So th so what I would see , is that first you contact them and ask them if they would like to review it for to check for the Postdoc F: Yeah .
Professor E: not just for fun , OK ? but to to check this for uh things that they 're worried about having said or if they 're willing to just send an approval of it , at from their memory . Um and , uh , and we should think carefully actually we should review go through how that 's worded , OK ? Then , if someone uh wants to review it , uh , and I know you don't like this , but I 'm offering this as a suggestion , is that is that we then give them a print out . And then if they say that " I have a potential problem with these things , " then , you you say " OK well you might wanna hear this in context to s think if you need that , " you issue them a password , i in the Grad C: But the the problem with what you 're suggesting is it 's not just inconvenient for them , it 's inconvenient for me . Because that means multiple contacts every time for every single meeting every time anyone wants anything . I would much prefer to have all be automatic , they visit the web site if they want to . Obviously they don't have to .
Professor E: I know you 'd prefer it , but the proble
Grad C: Yeah .
Professor E: we have Grad C: So I think you 're thinking people are going to arbitrarily start bleeping and I just don't think that 's gonna happen .
Professor E: there 's a problem with it .