C: And ,
C: eh , I have to to talk with y with you , with the group , eh , about the instantaneous frequency ,
C: because I have , eh , an algorithm ,
C: and , I get ,
C: mmm , eh ,
C: t t results similar results , like , eh , the paper , eh , that I I am following .
C: But , eh , the the rules , eh , that , eh , people used in the paper to to distinguish the harmonics , is doesn't work well .
A: Mm - hmm .
C: And I I I I not sure that i eh , the the way o to ob the way to obtain the the instantaneous frequency is right ,
C: or it 's it 's not right .
C: Eh ,
A: Yeah .
C: I haven't enough file feeling to to to distinguish what happened .
A: Yeah , I 'd like to talk with you about it .
A: If if if , uh If I don't have enough time and y you wanna discuss with someone else A: some someone else besides us that you might want to talk to , uh , might be Stephane .
C: Yeah .
C: I talked with Stephane and and Thilo
A: Yeah and and Thilo ,
A: yeah .
C: and ,
A: Yeah , but C: they nnn they  they <comment>  they didn't E: I 'm not too experienced with harmonics
C: they think that <comment> the experience is not enough to A: I see .
E: and G: Is is this the algorithm where you hypothesize a fundamental , and then get the energy for all the harmonics of that fundamental ?
C: No , no it 's No C: No .
G: And then hypothesize a new fundamental and get the energy C: No .
A: Yeah , that 's wh
C: No . I I I I don't proth process the the fundamental .
C: I  I , ehm I calculate the the phase derivate using the FFT .
A: Yeah .
C: And C: The algorithm said that , eh , if you if you change the the  the ,
C: eh , nnn C: the X - the frequency " X " , eh , using the in the instantaneous frequency ,
C: you can find , eh , how , eh , in several frequencies that proba probably the the harmonics , eh ,
A: Uh - huh .
C: the errors of peaks the frequency peaks , eh , eh , move around these , eh eh frequency harmonic C: the frequency of the harmonic .
C: And , eh , if you if you compare the the instantaneous frequency , eh , of the of the , eh , continuous , eh , eh , filters , that , eh that , eh , they used eh , to  to to get , eh , the the instantaneous frequency ,
A: Mm - hmm .
C: it probably too , you can find , eh , that the instantaneous frequency for the continuous , eh , eh the output of the continuous filters are very near .
C: And in my case i in equal with our signal , it doesn't happened .
A: Yeah . I 'd hafta look at that and think about it .
C: And A: It 's it 's it 's I haven't worked with that either
A: so I 'm not sure A: The way  the simple - minded way I suggested was what Chuck was just saying , is that you could make a a sieve .
C: Yeah .
A: You know , y you actually say that here is A: Let 's let 's hypothesize that it 's this frequency or that frequency ,
A: and and , uh ,
C: Yeah .
A: maybe you maybe you could use some other cute methods to , uh , short cut it by by uh , making some guesses ,
A: but but uh uh uh ,
A: I would , uh A: I mean you could make some guesses from , uh from the auto - correlation or something
A: but but then , given those guesses , try ,
A: um , uh ,
A: only looking at the energy at multiples of the of that frequency ,
A: and and see how much of the A: take the one that 's maximum .
A: Call that the C: Yeah .
C: Using the energy of the of the multiple of the frequency .
A: But A: Of all the harmonics of that . Yeah .
C: Yeah .
G: Do you hafta do some kind of , uh , low - pass filter before you do that ?
C: I don't use .
G: Or C: But , I I know many people use , eh , low - pass filter to to to get , eh , the pitch .
A: No .
A: To get the pitch , yes .
C: I don't use .
E: To get the pitch , yeah .
C: To get the pitch , yes .
C: But the harmonic , no .
G: But i
G: But the harmonics are gonna be ,
G: uh , uh ,
G: I don't know what the right word is .
G: Um ,
G: they 're gonna be dampened by the uh , vocal tract ,
G: right ?
G: The response of the vocal tract .
A: Yeah ?
C: Yeah ?
G: And so just looking at the energy on those at the harmonics , is that gonna ?
A: Well so the thing is that the A: This is for ,
A: uh , a , um G: I m what you 'd like to do is get rid of the effect of the vocal tract .
G: Right ?
E: Yeah .
G: And just look at the at at the signal coming out of the glottis .
A: Yeah .
A: Uh , well ,
A: yeah that 'd be good .
C: Yeah .
A: But , uh but I but  but I don't know that you need to B: Open wide !
A: but I don't need you know if you need to get rid of it .
A: I mean that 'd that 'd be nice
A: but I don't know if it 's ess if it 's essential .
A: Um , I mean cuz I think the main thing is that , uh , you 're trying G: Uh - huh .
A: wha what are you doing this for ?
A: You 're trying distinguish between the case where there is , uh where where there are more than uh , where there 's more than one speaker
A: and the case where there 's only one speaker .
B: Sorry .
A: So if there 's more than one speaker ,
A: um A: yeah I guess you could I guess A: yeah you 're so you 're not distinguished between voiced and unvoiced ,
A: so so , i if you don't if you don't care about that C: Yeah .
A: See , if you also wanna just determine if you also wanna determine whether it 's unvoiced , then I think you want to look look at high frequencies also ,
A: because the f the fact that there 's more energy in the high frequencies is gonna be an ob sort of obvious cue that it 's unvoiced .
G: Yeah .
A: But , i i uh  I mean i i
A: but , um ,
A: other than that I guess as far as the one person versus two persons , it would be primarily a low frequency phenomenon .
A: And if you looked at the low frequencies , yes the higher frequencies are gonna there 's gonna be a spectral slope .
A: The higher frequencies will be lower energy .
A: But so what .
A: I mean  that 's that 's w
C: I will prepare for the next week eh , all my results about the harmonicity
C: and will will try to come in
C: and to discuss here ,
C: because , eh , I haven't enough feeling to  to u many time to  to understand what happened with the with , eh , so many peaks ,
C: eh , eh ,
C: and I I see the harmonics there many time
C: but , eh , there are a lot of peaks ,
C: eh , that , eh , they are not harmonics .
C: Um ,
A: Yeah .
C: I have to discover what what is the the w the best way to to <comment> to <comment> c to use them
A: Well , but yeah I don't think you can I mean you 're not gonna be able to look at every frame ,
A: so I mean A: I I mean I I really I I really thought that the best way to do it ,
A: and I 'm speaking with no experience on this particular point ,
A: but , my impression was that the best way to do it was however you You 've used instantaneous frequency , whatever . <comment> However you 've come up you with your candidates , you wanna see how much of the energy is in that
C: Yeah .
C: Yeah .
A: as coppo as opposed to all of the all the total energy .
A: And , um , if it 's voiced ,
A: I guess so so y I think maybe you do need a voiced - unvoiced determination too .
A: But if it 's voiced ,
C: Yeah .
A: um , and the , uh A: e the fraction of the energy that 's in the harmonic sequence that you 're looking at is relatively low , then it should be then it 's more likely to be an overlap .
C: Is height .
C: Yeah .
C: This this is the idea the idea I I I had
C: to to compare the the ratio of the  the energy of the harmonics with the eh , with the , eh , total energy in the spectrum
C: and try to get a ratio to to distinguish between overlapping and speech .
C: Mmm .
A: But you 're looking a y you 're looking at A: Let 's take a second with this .
A: Uh , uh ,
A: you 're looking at f at the phase derivative ,