F: So , you just get rid of it .
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
A: Hmm .
F: So .
E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .
D: Yeah .
E: Interesting .
E: OK , well , let 's see ,
E: so , um , do you think that this has changed your speech n in other ways ,
E: in terms of E: Myself , I do feel that I 'm E: when I spend a lot of hours doing this I become less fluent .
E: I have more false starts and things .
D: Really ?
E: Yeah .
E: I don't know if it 's It could just be because there 're so many more hours I haven't been talking .
F: Hmm !
C: I guess I try to be more careful in my speech , more often .
E: Good .
C: Unless I 'm really not paying any attention
C: like , you know , if I 'm at a party or something , and I 'm just sort of having a good time , then it doesn't really matter ,
C: but in n you know , normal one - on - one speech I I think I tend to try to enunciate more .
E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .
C: Cuz I 've been told I mumble .
E: Oh ! Huh !
C: Um , and I guess I used to be worse about it .
C: I was told by my parents that I used to mumble a lot .
D: Uh - huh .
C: Uh , and also I I have this sort of East Coast accent that comes in sometimes that makes it hard for people on the West Coast to understand what I 'm saying .
E: Hmm !
C: A lot of times like , uh , if I 'm not paying attention I 'll say something that , uh , will not really be heard .
C: I tend to leave off final consonants , for instance ,
C: and people , uh , n I have to be conscious of that sometimes .
E: Hmm !
C: Yeah , so .
E: So mainly for clarity , it sounds like , like in phrasing or strategies .
C: Yeah .
C: Yeah .
D: Hmm . One thing that I noticed D: I don't know if it 's a really a question of me being more c changing my speech necessarily ,
D: but I 'm much more aware of interruptions in conversation in normal conversation .
E: Oh !
F: Oh , yeah . That 's true .
E: Oh .
C: Yeah .
D: So , uh , maybe I am more careful <comment> in the sense that I maybe don't interrupt as much ,
D: or j I 'm more aware of it when I am doing it ,
D: or something like that ,
D: but , um , I just pay attention more to the fact that every pretty much all the time in normal conversation there are interruptions .
D: There 's no D: I mean , unless you have really aw
D: I mean , I think if there were no interruptions it would sound really awkward .
A: Mm - hmm .
D: There would be a lot of pauses ,
D: and that would kind of i imply uncomfortability , or something .
B: Hmm .
C: Right .
A: Yeah .
D: But ,
E: I guess it depends partly on the type of interruption .
D: yeah .
E: I mean , if it 's a clarifying type like " well do you mean ? " when they 're partway through it in a utterance .
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
D: Yeah .
D: It 's different .
C: Yeah . I tend to think of a conversation that has no interruptions as being something that 's n unnatural and forced .
C: Or something like a meeting where , you know , I mean everybody says their little schpiel
D: Yeah .
C: and people are meant to be , you know , pretty pretty quiet and attentive for the most part .
C: And then they let them finish ,
C: and then somebody else comes in
C: and says something about it .
D: Yeah .
C: Um ,
C: and in a n like a friendly conversation I I notice that that 's not really true .
C: Like what you were saying .
A: Right .
D: But even in cases like that , <comment> even when it is D: see now I 'm contradicting myself ,
D: but even when it is very turn - taking is very w like people follow the turn - taking rules , or whatever , and don't really blatantly interrupt people ,
D: um ,
D: and I I remember this actually from a meeting because Liz was complaining there wasn't enough o interruptions ,
D: or e not enough overlaps , or something .
C: Huh !
D: It wasn't interruptions
D: it was overlaps , that I was thinking about .
E: Uh - huh . I think this is really D: Not enough overlaps .
E: yeah .
D: And so she wanted to there to be an argument or something so that there 'd d be more .
D: And ch what she didn't realize was that throughout the meeting up until then there had been ,
D: they were just very small ,
D: but they were there .
D: I think they 're there pretty much a all the time .
E: I agree .
E: I did I did do one analysis wh where I looked at one meeting ,
C: That 's interesting .
D: Uh - huh .
E: and , um E: th cuz the claim had been ,
E: actually o one of the people in the meeting had made the claim in the previous meeting that , " Well , there probably the overlaps only occur during setup and , um , you know , at the end when we 're leaving . "
D: Oh !
F: Oh yeah , that 's totally not true .
B: Hmm !
C: No , not at all .
E: Exactly . Exactly .
D: Yeah !
E: Well , and , you know , I think that that 's sort of the feeling you would get if unless you looked at the data at this level .
D: Yeah !
D: Yeah .
A: Right .
E: And so I did an analysis
E: and in fact it was really a pretty constant rate
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: all the way through the entire meeting
E: and everyone was involved .
D: Mm - hmm .
E: Wasn't just one , you know , or two speakers .
E: Everyone was E: Yeah . It 's quite true .
C: Kind of makes sense
C: because if you 're if you wanna speak next , it 's almost like you got y you gotta get your foot in the door .
C: You gotta be the one who you know , make sure people recognize that you 're the one who 's gonna speak next .
D: Mm - hmm .
E: That 's true .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: I should say , I didn't distinguish between overlaps and and interruptions .
E: So some of these were backchannels and things like that .
D: Yeah .
C: Oh , I see .
E: But it 's still It 's still the case .
C: Uh - huh .
E: You have A: Yeah .
E: y you A: I think , um , silences are generally like not good in conversation too .
A: Cuz once you get a sil
A: You know , it it it 's to your benefit to to try to get in right when you think they 're done
A: because if there 's a silence , not only is it awkward , <comment> but then that sort of cues everybody to start thinking of a new topic to stop the silence ,
D: Yeah .
B: Hmm .
A: and then you don't get to talk about what you wanted to talk about <comment> because the whole subject has changed .
D: And then everybody talks at once .
E: That 's true . That 's very true .
D: You know , thinking about it ,
A: You know ?
A: S
D: I I think I 've only noticed a couple times where there 's been actual silence on all channels for a period of time .
A: Yeah .
F: Mm - hmm .
B: Hmm !
D: It 's only been like twice .
E: It 's true . That 's very rare .
F: It 's rare .
C: Yeah .
E: I agree .
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: Interesting observation .
E: Yeah . Well , if they 're i c if this has raised a couple of things for me that I wanted to mention
D: Yeah .
E: because , you know , at this point , we 're at the at the really fine grain level of of standardization which I hadn't really thought of specifying in advance before ,
E: and , um , wanted to maybe just mention a couple of things .
E: These are ,
E: um E: Yeah , I don't think that these are very common .
E: But with the idea that what we 're trying to do is encode the communicative stuff ,
E: um , when we have these grey areas ,
E: um , w um ,
E: I wanted to draw attention to the fact that there are sometimes these stretches where a person is trying to say something and formulating their thought , and they 're coming out with a bunch of segments , which really aren't part of a word .
E: Have you run across that where they 're they 're saying
D: Hmm .
C: Mm - hmm .
C: Yeah , yeah , yeah .
D: Yeah , yeah . <comment> Yeah .
A: Yeah .
E: and then they say a word .
B: Oh .
C: Right .
F: Yeah .
E: And , my feeling on that is , that this isn't really a phonological transcript ,
E: and potentially those things could probably be rendered ,
E: although some of them are not even full segments ,
E: they 're even sub s subsegmental , I would say .
E: I mean , you got a a single flap of a vocal cord sometimes ,
D: Mm - hmm .
A: Yeah .
E: and , you know , they 're th it 's like the the apparatus is sort of almost kicking in ,
E: they 're almost gonna say
E: but it hasn't somehow this somehow this vibration hit before the rest of it
E: and and that 's not communicative .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: So , um , my my the way I do those things when I hear those , if is to I use in parentheses one " X " so it 's marked .
C: OK .
A: Right .
D: Mm - hmm .
E: Or if it 's @ @ <comment> then I <comment> then I put six or seven or however many it is D: Then A: That 's what I usually do too .
D: Right .
F: I was wondering who had been putting those in .
A: Yeah .
E: Great .
E: And then and then what I do is I put in , um , brackets , um , uncodeable Sorry , " Uncodeable vocal sounds " .
D: Mm - hmm .
F: Yes .
C: Oh , OK . OK .
E: And of course , potentially they 're codable ,
E: but i I just wanted to mark roughly how man how long it is ,
A: Mm - hmm .
E: then indicate what what the nature of it is , so no one 's gonna try and go back and and decode it as something that 's pechen a a word that was not It has a different status than parenthesized , uh , parts when there are words involved ,
A: Mm - hmm .
E: just to set it aside ,
E: have some sort of a length indication ,
E: and sometimes I 'll even put them in a in a separate bin ,
E: although that 's that 's not necessary .
E: It 's just sometimes it works out that way that they @ @ ,
F: Mm - hmm .
E: they do this thing .
E: I shouldn't do that so often .
E: I 'm sorry about that .
E: They do this sound ,
E: and then there 's a pause ,
E: and then they start speaking ,
F: Mm - hmm .
E: so then it 's really obvious , I can I can split it apart and it won't be any problem .
E: I wanted to mention that one ,
F: Man !
C: I 'm glad you ment brought that up
E: yeah .
C: because I actually C: I 'm one of the culprits that puts in all the little itsy bitsy tiny sounds in the middle of everything ,
D: Mmm .
F: I do that too !
C: because I was F: I used to do that !
C: because C: Yeah . Cuz I was thinking , like , you 're just supposed to write down everything you hear as closely as possible .
E: Well E: Mm - hmm .
C: And so , I 'm glad you said that
C: because , um , that actually takes a good amount of time , and like pretty strict concentration to d to do that .
F: A lot of time .
A: Yeah .
A: Yeah . <comment> I put in the " X "s .
C: Um ,
E: Excellent .
C: and so A: I put in if it 's , um , unintelligible I put I count how many syllables and then I put in " six X " C: I do that if it 's unintelligible ,
C: but if I can tell something if somebody goes " r " I 'll put an " R " .
E: Oh , I see .
E: I see .
C: Eh Um , so if they go " r e m m " , I 'll go " R " " EH " " mmm " m " M " " M " .
A: Oh .
B: Hmm .
C: So like I I 've been doing that
C: because like that 's what I can hear .
E: OK .
C: And I 'm pretty damn sure that A: Right .
C: sorry . Sorry !
C: Sorry . Hhh !
A: That will have to be transcribed with little , uh , symbols .
C: Sorry !
C: I 'm sorry .
F: Yeah . Like a a skull and crossbones .
C: I feel really bad now .
C: Oh no !
C: I 'm sorry !
A: Right .
C: OK E: That 's OK .
E: It 's alright .
A: You 've ruined the whole meeting !
E: No problem .
A: We can't transcribe any of it now !
F: It 's not i it 's C: Oh no , I 'm so sorry .
F: Yeah .
F: It 's not like you said the F - word .
E: No , no , no .
F: It 's not it 's not an E: This is not F: it 's still a PG D: Yeah , seriously .
E: I wouldn't give it a second thought .
D: Do you remember what you were gonna say ?
C: Oh yeah I I was F: She 's pretty darn sure that , uh ,
C: Ah and then tha Yeah , that 's wha
E: You sh
E: Yeah F: she could make it out probably .
A: OK . <comment> Right .
C: I 'm sorry .
F: Yeah , no one 's ever sworn in any of the meetings !
E: Well , y you 've heard have you heard " shoot " ?
F: That actually E: I 've heard " shoot " a couple of times .
C: I 've heard the D: Yeah .
F: Not the swearword version .
A: Hmm E: No , no , no , no , no , no ,
E: the
F: Just " shoot " .
E: " shoot " type , yeah .
C: I 've heard the swearword version .
A: Yeah .
F: That 's OK .
C: Remember that ?
A: Oh , you have ?
E: Yeah ?
C: Remember that ?
A: I 've never heard the swearword versions .
E: Oh .
C: It was a while back .
C: I it was a long time ago .
E: I do remember that . Yeah .
C: Yeah , and I was like , " Oah ! "
C: I emailed you ,
C: I was like , " M You might wanna check this out . "
E: That 's right . That 's right .
C: Yeah , I do remember that .
E: Yeah .
C: But it was very quiet .
C: So I can see how that would have been sort of gone over by accident .
C: It was just very quiet ,
C: like kind of under the breath <comment> kind of thing ,
E: Uh - huh , yeah .
D: Uh - huh .
E: Yeah , it was .
C: so that 's why it was missed .
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
D: Yeah .
C: I can understand .
F: Hmm !
B: Mm - hmm .
E: Mm - hmm .
C: Yeah .
E: Yeah .
E: B but y t finish your point .
E: So , y
C: Oh ! I was just <comment> I was just saying that , um , I I can  I 'm pretty sure that I can tell what exactly what sounds are being produced .
E: Yes .
C: So if it 's " er " , I write an " R " .
E: Mm - hmm .
A: Right .
C: If it 's " mmm " , I can tell it 's D: Yeah .
A: Right .
E: Mm - hmm . Mm - hmm .
A: Then again , I always think that it 's closer to stick with the " X
A: because it 's , like , how effective is , you know , the Roman alphabet at deciphering all the sounds that a human can make .
D: Yeah .
A: You know , it 's not the IPA
A: and it 's just , I I just sort of think , um , it 's best to leave it with " X
B: Mmm .
A: because I  y English orthography conventions are just so , you know , uncertain anyway in the first place ,
A: and , um E: Mm - hmm .
A: you know , I I usually only use them when I I know that , um , the person was trying to make a word .
A: I mean , I know that the the word they were trying to say
A: and that they were stuttering that ,
A: then I feel fine just you know , writing out the letters .
A: But otherwise , I sort of don't feel right trying to write them out
A: because I feel like it 's , um A: you can't really C: Just not useful ?
A: Yeah , you can't really spell those things with the R with the Roman alphabet ,
F: Mm - hmm .
C: Yeah ?
A: you know ?
D: Yeah .
C: Mm - hmm .
A: It 's it was only set up for F: Right .
A: it was set up for a different purpose , you know .
A: Not necessarily so phonological .
E: I agree . And I think there 's another problem too ,
D: Yeah .
C: OK .
E: and that is that we do have some short words which are communicative .
E: And and sometimes E: So , if you have an " ER " as part of one of these fragments , we do have a lexicalized " er "
A: Right .
E: which is a which is a a filler item .
C: Right .
E: Does have a meaning .
D: Yeah .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: So I think for both of the reasons it 's good to just leave it in this category of not really communicating in a in a word - like way .
C: So even if it 's " er " , or A: Right .
E: I would keep " er " .
E: Well , " E " " er " " er " if it 's a filler .
C: Oh , you would keep " er " .
E: So , " I mean , er , "
C: Right , right .
E: th that that that stays .
A: Mmm C: Right . Oh , OK .
D: Yeah .
A: Oh yeah .
E: But if it 's p uh , part on these little fragments , no .
A: I always A: I often transcribe that as " or " .
A: I always thought that was " or " sort of with a strange pronunciation .
E: Oh .
E: I 'm making a distinction .
F: Oh .
E: So you have the , um , comic " er " where the person says something and then they pretend that they didn't wanna say that ,
A: Right .
E: and then they throw in an " er " .
A: Oh .
E: m and that would be an " er " .
A: Oh , I don't get that one .
C: Uh - huh .
D: Mm - hmm .
A: Right .
E: ER .
E: But if they 're saying " or " in a reduced way so it comes out as " er " , do it as " or " .
A: R
A: Right .
A: OK .
E: Cuz that 's that falls within the realm of pronunciation variants .
D: OK .
A: m OK .
C: Right .
A: Right .
E: It 's just like different ways of saying " and " .
A: Mm - hmm .
E: OK .
E: And I have like , uh , uh , two more things I wanted to say .
E: One of them is , um E: Oh , yeah .
E: This is an interesting category to me ,
E: and I don't , um , y y don't have to mark this systematically .
E: But when you 're going through the meeting , and what I 'd like people to do if if you 're not uh , uh is to go through the meeting ,
E: um E: So , if you 're doing you 're doing separate channels first and then as a final pass through the mixed channel ,
E: I don't think I 've made that explicit
E: but it w it 's really helpful to go through it a a final time though the mixed channel so that you hear things in context .
E: And at that point what I sometimes pick up is this meta - level , where someone is finishes someone 's someone else 's utterance .
D: Mm - hmm .
E: So you 'll suddenly have this stranded word out in the middle of nowhere , and it 's because