These were more &#34;casual&#34; than I thought they looked in the posting.  They kept falling off my feet even after adding cushioning.  Finally, gave up and sent them off to Good Will. Maybe they will fit someone else's feet:)  Sometimes Clarks are great and sometimes they're too stiff, or loose, etc.  Clarks  shoes are missing the consistent quality they once had.  It's unfortunate because I'm hesitant to buy online anymore.