These shoes were just what I wanted but when I did get them they said 8M but they were at leaset a 7 1/2 N because I couldn't hardly get my foot in there and the front that goes across my foot after my toes was really tight.  There is no way these are 8 M.  I will have to waste my time in sending them back and just getting a refund because if I order them again they probably will be the same thing.  I have worn all brands of shoes over the years and this if the first time I couldn't even wear the size 8M.