I have been a Wave Rider wearer for miles and miles.  I bought a pair of the 17's that I had to cut up by where the laces meet the shoe due to finishing my first run in them with open sores on the tops of my toes!  I started wearing Hoka Cliftons for my longer training runs, but bought another pair of the 17's when I saw such a fantastic price on Amazon. Sure enough....  they cut into my toes even worse than the last pair.  I haven't cut these up yet but can't send them back because I have already worn them for a run.  See the problem doesn't really start until 3 or more miles.  By then it is too late to send them back.  Cutting them in just the right place makes them wearable, but then they look terrible.  I think I am done with Mizuno for a while..... Makes me sad.  They have been good shoes for me for a long time.  When you run the kind of miles that I run, you need shoes that are durable.  The Mizunos are much more durable than any other.... but beware of the 17.... Ouch!