 about draft Hi  I like your opinion piece draft  Its great in providing many quantifications of the promocommercial articles  I like how you narrate your WikiProject Poland experience and develop from that  I like how you call for a major cleanup driveAt the end though you ask the readers to go off separately and do a little bit towards solving the problem  IMO that is not enough and youve motivated something bigger a big cleanup drive but that should be a lot more  Maybe you should compare your proposal to the big drive to address UnReferenced Biographies of Living People URBLPs a problem that was recognized more and more during 2009 and then blew up in controversy in January 2010 I think it was  There was one editor deleting them by the hundreds I think which made others mad  And Wikipedia was hammered in the outside news coverage about some salient bad incidents  The problem was addressed by a big drive with one element being wpURBLP Wikiprojects efforts that I happened to join  The drive was wellfocused because there was a known number 52000 of unreferenced BLPs in a category to be addressed although there were new ones coming in and more old ones being discovered of course  And that one editor agreed to back off IF the number was reduced by half in six months  Thats my very imperfect understanding of the situation before I joined  The drive I participated in worked well  I tried to help keep focus on the goal and in several other ways but some others had far more direct impact than I did  See Wikipedia talkWikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living PersonsArchive 2Goal statement  Every day we could see the current number and it moving or not and some big changes were made to reduce the number of new URBLPs coming in and some other targeted efforts were tried and some clearly made a difference while others did not  Overall having the big numeric public goal that we wanted to meet and having immediate feedbackgratification in seeing the total categorys number change was key  It was rewarding and frustrating and a team effort going on etc not just a bunch of people working completely separately  In the end the 6 month goal was finally met though it was very close  Then I and some others dropped out but the overall problem had been somewhat solved and its been better since and the number was brought all the way down to 0 effectively and is at about 2000 now I see Im not saying you should talk much or at all about that URBLP problem and its drive in your opinion piece But I think your calling for accurate measurement of the current problem by a onemonth effort to get all of the problematic articles tagged say the same way would be reasonable  There would have to be an enforceable rule made up that prevented the paid PR persons from deleting the tags on their articles  There was something like that with the URBLPsI think anyone seen deleting the URBLP tag was warned and blocked as disruptive if necessary  And then you can call for something aggressive  like bringing the real number down to 100000 tops within a year or whatever  Your estimating the problem size to be 150000 is helpful towards setting that up  Or you could call for something quite different  My main reaction anyhow was that I expected at the end for you to call for something big  Asking people to separately make efforts that would not even be measurable would not be enough IMO  Youve earned the right to call for a bigger more organized effortAlso Im not sure Spam is the right title  You do clarify you dont mean external links spamming but thats what I think of  What is the right name for this problem  You have the opportunity to name it maybe perhaps some acronym  Business Puff Pieces By Paid Editors Probably  BPPBPEP  Nope  The problem is talked about at TalkJimbo Wales and elsewhere though and there may be a good name for it alreadyHope this helpsmy two or three cents  Ill get to the other thing i owe but probably not until the weekend or next week  ncram 

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 about draft Hi  I like your opinion piece draft  Its great in providing many quantifications of the promocommercial articles  I like how you narrate your WikiProject Poland experience and develop from that  I like how you call for a major cleanup driveAt the end though you ask the readers to go off separately and do a little bit towards solving the problem  IMO that is not enough and youve motivated something bigger a big cleanup drive but that should be a lot more  Maybe you should compare your proposal to the big drive to address UnReferenced Biographies of Living People URBLPs a problem that was recognized more and more during 2009 and then blew up in controversy in January 2010 I think it was  There was one editor deleting them by the hundreds I think which made others mad  And Wikipedia was hammered in the outside news coverage about some salient bad incidents  The problem was addressed by a big drive with one element being wpURBLP Wikiprojects efforts that I happened to join  The drive was wellfocused because there was a known number 52000 of unreferenced BLPs in a category to be addressed although there were new ones coming in and more old ones being discovered of course  And that one editor agreed to back off IF the number was reduced by half in six months  Thats my very imperfect understanding of the situation before I joined  The drive I participated in worked well  I tried to help keep focus on the goal and in several other ways but some others had far more direct impact than I did  See Wikipedia talkWikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living PersonsArchive 2Goal statement  Every day we could see the current number and it moving or not and some big changes were made to reduce the number of new URBLPs coming in and some other targeted efforts were tried and some clearly made a difference while others did not  Overall having the big numeric public goal that we wanted to meet and having immediate feedbackgratification in seeing the total categorys number change was key  It was rewarding and frustrating and a team effort going on etc not just a bunch of people working completely separately  In the end the 6 month goal was finally met though it was very close  Then I and some others dropped out but the overall problem had been somewhat solved and its been better since and the number was brought all the way down to 0 effectively and is at about 2000 now I see Im not saying you should talk much or at all about that URBLP problem and its drive in your opinion piece But I think your calling for accurate measurement of the current problem by a onemonth effort to get all of the problematic articles tagged say the same way would be reasonable  There would have to be an enforceable rule made up that prevented the paid PR persons from deleting the tags on their articles  There was something like that with the URBLPsI think anyone seen deleting the URBLP tag was warned and blocked as disruptive if necessary  And then you can call for something aggressive  like bringing the real number down to 100000 tops within a year or whatever  Your estimating the problem size to be 150000 is helpful towards setting that up  Or you could call for something quite different  My main reaction anyhow was that I expected at the end for you to call for something big  Asking people to separately make efforts that would not even be measurable would not be enough IMO  Youve earned the right to call for a bigger more organized effortAlso Im not sure Spam is the right title  You do clarify you dont mean external links spamming but thats what I think of  What is the right name for this problem  You have the opportunity to name it maybe perhaps some acronym  Business Puff Pieces By Paid Editors Probably  BPPBPEP  Nope  The problem is talked about at TalkJimbo Wales and elsewhere though and there may be a good name for it alreadyHope this helpsmy two or three cents  Ill get to the other thing i owe but probably not until the weekend or next week  ncram 

