'So why do they put so much credence in those unfalsifiable premises?|||Don't know. I don't think I pretend to carry about my friends. I have crossed the line, but generally by accident. Can't think of a time I deliberately crossed the line. Pushed the line, maybe.|||Yeah, I don't like them either. Doubt I do the hide the hair gel thing. Probably something verbal, but it's hard to give an example. Easier to do one in the moment. Insulting myself is fair game,...|||Wow... I'm not sure if that's undercutting humor or off-balance humor... the insults go so far that it's off-balancing...|||Yeah, building him up like that would be too cruel. But teasing him about his vanity might be a way of testing how open he is to admitting it. It is a way of testing his boundaries, hopefully in a...|||Yeah, if I was teaching a math class, that would be a good idea. (Note to self: do that when I teach Logic and Reasoning next time!) What I'm talking about with examples is more, Here's some really...|||So what's the point of calling the guy Zoolander, do you think? I mean, that is what I'm talking about when I talk about undercutting humor. Yeah, it's just a joke, but, on one level, you are...|||Er, not to interrupt the crazyeddie sucks vibe, but I think we've got a misunderstanding here. I don't think the kind of manipulation going on here has anything to do about trust. When used...|||Huh. Well, I suppose it wouldn't be very surprising if my Ennegram radar is even less accurate than my MBTI radar.|||Different kinds of being a dick. You're a horrible person vs. Let's put you into this uncomfortable position and see what you do.   I think all humor is about being a dick, on some level. Do...|||And you, buddy, seem pretty Type 9 to me :)|||Yes, that would be the problem with manipulation in general.     Yep. Call it hypocrisy. I get that people don't see me doing this (or, they see me doing this, and I don't catch them seeing me),...|||Yeah, the goading into a response I would do if they pissed me off - generally by messing with the peace. But I also sometimes knock friends off-balance too. Doesn't undercut them (I *hate* that...|||Hmm. I think we'd (whatever category of 'we' we're talking about here - and generalizing to 'we' does seem to be a type 9 thing) would cop to it being manipulative, but not dishonest or...|||Hmm. I'm torn between making as graceful a retreat as I can, given the circumstances, and trying to offer you advice based on my own experience, and risk pissing you off all over again. Your call?|||Humor *is* generally assholish, in one form another. I guess it depends on what flavor of asshole you like. And I apologize for generalizing from my own behavior to INTPs in general. Do you mind...|||Well, on the upside, turnabout is fair play. I don't think most of the INTPs who do this would mind the tables being turned, aside from them having to do some more of the work.|||Well, he was never certain about his own position (and neither am I), the technique *does* further dialogue - in fact, it squeezes it, to use bengalcat's term. I don't remember him actually...|||Again, sorry if I hurt you. Good to know this sort of thing can have that effect on people. Guess I'll have to use it more wisely in the future. In my defense, I was doing it because I did respect...|||Well, the entire point of the maneuver is to emotionally manipulate somebody into digging up the dirt on your own pet theory. So, you get them annoyed at you, so they'll take it out on the theory. If...|||Hmm. Don't remember doing it 'live.' Except maybe when I teach, when I really *am* the authority.|||Hmm. I don't think type 9s naturally put themselves in positions of authority. Setting themselves up as the authority is actually *part* of the act - we're pushing you to rebel!|||bengalcat for what it's worth, yeah, the girl finally confronted that INFJ guy. Not only did he not like her, he was confused why she might think he liked her :/ So consider your intuitions...|||It's sort of the opposite of asking a leading question. With a leading question, you're pushing the person to agree with you. In a case like this, you're pushing them to *disagree* with you. It's not...|||Well, I do generally reserve that particular method for people who already pissed me off. (If you're going to be squished, then at least get squished by people you almost have a moral duty to be...|||sorry... t_t|||Well, people don't generally catch on to the fact that you're pissing them off just to get them to dig up the dirt on your theory for you :) No, the drawback to that particular tactic is that you...|||A lot of it depends on the style of the emotional 'provocation.' Do you remember that one time, I asked you for advice about an INFJ who had a girl crushing on him? And I was trying to figure out if...|||Well, I wouldn't change to appease him :) To improve my teaching, yes. And I have gotten some feedback from students that a clearer outline would help their note-taking. But, since I really don't use...|||<twitch> perhaps I should mention that we're both *analytic* philosophers? We might be each other's arch-nemsis, but at least we ain't @#$% post-modernists...|||Yeah, that sounds about right. Like I said, I think he's an IxTJ, but I can't tell if he's using Ni, or if he just has that goddamn much literature crammed into Si.     Strangely enough, a lot...|||Well, it's mostly been jabs at my teaching style, so far >.> We have radically different ideas on that as well. Neither of us are terribly good at putting our actual theories into words. He has said...|||Well, there is this one guy in our department... He's a Kantian. I hate Kant. And, like just about every Kantian I've met, he's naturally a horrible asshole whose horrible assholishness is kept in...|||No, I haven't. But, yeah, I know relativism has its flaws too. For one thing, I'd only be able to say that bin Laden is a horrible horrible person relative to my culture. The variant I'm working on...|||With Ne, I know that it's not so much about truth as possibility. With Ne, I can see things that *may* be true, but it's up to Ti to see if it makes sense, it if it's coherent with what I already...|||I still like the idea that somebody had of just taking baby!Hitler back with you to the future. Good chance WWII would still happen, given the political climate in Germany, but it'd certainly be...|||Well, given how many buildings we got on campus, that would mean about once a year for some building on campus. Which seems to be about the reconstruction schedule, actually.|||Perhaps, but I *would* like to be able to tell the ghost of bin Laden that he's a horrible horrible person and say something *objectively* true. Even if it would be less fun than the Land of Do As...|||Psh, it's not relativistic to say that a tool is morally neutral. The guy deserves it could be an objective moral truth. Besides, if you want to talk meta-ethics, I'm a frustrated objectivist (no...|||Which would take a while, given how stingy the state is being of late :/ Still, they do occasionally retrofit a building, or build a new one. Wonder how hard that would be to do then? Surely they...|||Remember, people: wisdom begins with saying I don't know.|||Hmm. More like a train wreck, I'd say - like a train heading over a cliff, following the rails... In some ways, mere arrogance and narcissism is more forgivable. It's like how stupidity can be more...|||I think this is probably the most effective strategy mentioned in this thread so far :)|||The University has steam from the power plant that it uses for heating during the winter. I know you can use live steam to cool, using adsorption cooling. I wonder if the University is already using...|||No, I think I get this too. We slack and procrastinate so much that if we have free time, where we don't have to worry about slacking, it makes us think maybe we forgot about what we're...|||Depends on how you use it. It can be a useful tool, and like all tools, it can be used for good or evil. If the person you're deliberately pissing off is an asshole, it's all good.|||Yes. <10 chars>|||Hopefully some ESFJs will wonder through and respond, but I'd say that Si is all about what you're used to. So a good chunk of how those two ESFJs act could just be how they were raised. Idk.|||That does indeed suck. Not as bad as the one-month-in couple's counseling, and getting yelled at for not filling out the worksheets, but it does suck.   Anybody else notice In2itive having a bad...|||Heh, if they're Geek Squab, you'd be better off eating them... if only the reality lived up to the marketing...'