The Countess of Detroit: Alma Smith on Jazz, Touring, and the Love of Her City

Field: Arts and Humanities (Social Sciences)

One could say that Alma Smith was a renaissance woman. Born Mary Alma Foster in Montgomery, Alabama, in 1922, she was mostly known for her work as a nationally and internationally touring singer, pianist, and vibraphonist. Her work led her to perform and record with some of the world's most influential musicians, such as Lou Rawls, Mel Tormé, and Art Tatum. However, Smith also held the established titles of record label owner, composer, and educator. Above all, her personal philosophy on life, passion for music and jazz, and affection for her hometown of Detroit shined through in whatever she chose to do. This oral history depicts Smith's enthusiasm and love in these areas and truly encapsulates the spirit and tenacity of this extraordinary Detroiter.This interview was conducted in 1989 by Detroit journalist, historian, and musician Larry Gabriel as part of a fourteen-part oral history series for the Graystone International Jazz Museum. The series was run by Gabriel and journalist W. Kim Heron, who conducted video oral histories with many other storied Detroit musicians. Each interview illuminates the remarkable story of Detroit jazz through the voices of these important musicians. In 2014, Detroit Sound Conservancy digitized and preserved the video series for future use and research purposes as well as for the personal enjoyment of any jazz aficionado who may come across this oral history. For more information, visit: http://detroitsound.org/artifact/community-jazz-history-series/. Alma Smith, interviewed by Larry Gabriel, December 16, 1989, Detroit, Michigan, as part of the Community Jazz History Series for the Graystone International Jazz Museum. Interview courtesy of Detroit Sound Conservancy Archives. The interview opens with Smith playing piano and singing “Makin’ Whoopee” by Gus Kahn and Walter Donaldson.ALMA SMITH (AS): Oh! I have a nice group. I have Herbie Williams and Lou Barnett and Drew Evans. And Leonard White and sometimes Will Austin. And we're doing a lot of things, we have done the [North American] Auto Show, we were up in Ypsi [Ypsilanti, Michigan] last week. We're going overseas for six weeks, hopefully. I mean, I know that we're going and we've been playing some jazz festivals. Last week I was so happy cause I had the chance to play with eight pieces and I had the chance to play my vibraharps and we had a ball. Matter of fact, it was a shame to take the money [laughs], but we needed it. But we're doing a lot of things and things are good. When I come back from overseas, I hope to make an album with the group. I've never had an album with the group. This is what I want to do.LARRY GABRIEL (LG): What kind of material are you covering with this group?AS: Well, now, let's be honest. If we're doing a jazz concert and we do the jazz things like “Night in Tunisia,” “Round About Midnight,” “I Remember Clifford,” and “Lover Man,” and that kind of thing. But if we're going to a hotel, we do what the traffic calls for. That might be a businessman's bounce. And that's things like, “New York, New York,” “Sitting in the Clouds,” “Memories” from Cats. You know, you have to do it all to survive. You just can't do what you want to do.The first group we had . . . that group is unbelievable. We had a fellow named George Washington on bass. I played piano. Al Harper played drums. But we had Willie Wells on trumpet, who became a giant. We had Lucky Thompson on tenor, who became a giant, and Julius Watkins. I didn't realize at that point that I was in the company of such people.And then the first time I worked at the Jade Room in California, they had a band there [led by] Kid Ory, and I had no idea who he was. But I found out later that he was one of the forerunners of [jazz]. You know when you're young, you don't realize how great some people are. You don't have—at least I didn't. But the older I get, I realize that there are a lot of giants walking around and it humbles me.When I started out, I started out with a trio. I first started out with this band when I was a young girl . . . we just played for shows and that kind of thing. And then within a year, I joined the trio that was already organized, and they renamed it the Two Counts and the Countess. Then we went all over. By the time I was twenty-one, we had [gone] from New York to San Francisco. We worked the supper clubs and hotels, that kind of thing. The [inaudible], you know, the kind of jazzy supper clubs. That's the kind of thing we did. We did the standards, but we did some jazz. Because the guitar player, Johnny Fair, he was phenomenal. I remember when we went to New York to Minton's. . . . When we first went in, the guitar player just took Johnny's guitar. Finally, when he would let Johnny play, he wouldn't let Johnny quit, that's how good he was. And Curt Wilder was an excellent bass player, so we did a lot of nice things.LG: So, when you say you traveled to New York and to Minton's, what other clubs, or, you know, things . . . AS: We worked in Philadelphia, we worked in Chicago. But we spent the bulk of our time with the group . . . in California. We were there for three years. And we worked all over California, from San Francisco down to LA, Riverside, San Diego. We didn't miss anything cause we did a lot of things there. That's where we made our first album with the trio many years ago. It was a 78 [rpm record].LG: And you did some films out there?AS: We'd do what . . . a long time ago [they] used to . . . call “movie shorts” or “panorams.” They would use musical acts to do [them], you know, a short thing to film up the show. It's a forerunner now of your videos really. Cause sometimes they would put them in nightclubs, and you would put money in to see them and we made about four of those. Matter of fact, when we recorded them, we recorded them the same day with Mel Tormé’s group. And with Charles Brown. You know, Charlie Moore. Is that his name? The [inaudible]—the Charles Brown, the singer.LG: Charlie Brown, the R&B singer?AS: Mm hmm. Cause we worked with him at a place called the Swing Club on Hollywood Boulevard in Los Palmas. We used to alternate with him. On those corners there they had Billy Berg's [jazz club in Los Angeles], they had all of the jazz groups. Matter of fact, that's where I first saw Erroll Garner. And meeting him was really a surprise. It was hilarious because he would come in the club every night (maybe I better—shouldn't say this [laughs]) and he would kid me all the time. He says, “Come on, little lady, hang with me.” I said, “Oh no.” So, finally, one night, I said, “Hey man, what do you do in Hollywood?” He said, “I work across the street.” I said, “What do you do?” He said, “I play the piano.” I said, “Oh my God, you're Erroll Garner.” And that's how I met him. He took me across the street and played “Sweet Lorraine” and I'll never forget that cause whenever I play “Sweet Lorraine,” I think about Erroll Garner. I will never forget that. He was a beautiful person.Well, the thing that was good for me, I worked through a big agency. We worked for MCA [Music Corporation of America], and whenever we went to California, a job was waiting for us. We never did one-nighters. In fact, now in Detroit occasionally I do them, but on the road, we always had two to four to twelve weeks’ bookings because we worked in clubs like the Trocadero and we worked the Stardust Room in Hollywood out to Billy Berg's, we worked the Radio Room. All up and down Sunset Boulevard, we did a lot of things. The road was easy for me because the booking agent [would arrange travel details]. Whenever we got to town, the room was waiting for us. So it was like the ice cream circuit, you know [laughs]. Easy.I met Scatman [Crothers] in San Francisco many years ago. We worked at the jazz room up in San Francisco on Geary and Powell [street intersection in San Francisco]. We used to have a ball because we had jam sessions and it was wonderful. Then again, we opened the room in lower California called the Stardust, and we had three groups there. That's where I met George, Brian, and Scatman. . . . And the beautiful thing about Scatman [was] that as he became bigger and bigger and more fluent when he did “Chico and the Man” [television show], he remained the same. I corresponded [with] Scat until he died. He was an inspiration because when he hit the stage, it was nothing but fire. He played banjo, he was something else. He was a wonderful man.So, I came home, and I joined Rudy Rutherford's band—the clarinet player. And Dag[wood Langford] was the drummer. Harry Gray played bass, that's Wardell Gray's brother. Now, I worked with him for a while and then I started doing the single. And from then, I worked around Detroit for a while and then I went back on the road again. I was on the road for about eight years, and then I came back home in ’64. And that's when I switched over to organ and had a chance to do a lot of different things.I was not in the jazz scene. I've been scolded for that, but I was a survivor, so I worked. I was at the Statler Hilton [Hotel] for two years. I worked for all of the Hilton chains, now I worked for a lot of the supper clubs. I was not in the jazz scenes. I worked all over Dearborn. I worked at Shammerton's. I worked at Dearborn Inn. But I was not really in the jazz scene. I wanted to be, but finance[s] wouldn't allow me, you know? So, it's only recently that I've been able to do the things that I really want to do.LG: So, what was it like working the scene that you did work?AS: Beautiful. It allowed me to learn a lot of standards. It wasn't that you couldn't play jazz, but you couldn't feature it all night long. You could do some of it, but you couldn't do all of it, you know? But it was fine, I made a lot of good friends, and I had a chance to do some of the things I wanted to do. I had a chance to do some writing. I had a chance to save money and produce an album. I did a lot of things.I have a little record company called Valma Music. And I hope someday to get to the point where I can produce not only me, but other people. That's why I keep my license. I've had my license now since ’83. So, I have what they call a signature, that's my label, Valma Music. I do have that . . . But I really want to do a lot of jazz concerts. This is the reason, now, that I'm not doing any single engagements. Because there's lots of single engagements, especially for a woman that plays piano. But I like playing with groups. And recently, I started using my vibraharps and I've gotten good response from that, so this is what I really want to do.I was told that if I wanted to get my original writings over to put it on an album where perhaps someone else could hear it. And this is the reason for that album. [There] are the couple blues on there and the love songs and there's things that swing, but they're played like in the middle of the road thing. You couldn't call them jazz, but then you couldn't [say] they're not jazz, you know? It's just happy music, that's all.Oh, the title song from this album is called “Dreamin.’” In essence, it says, “You can have anything you want. Do you anything you want. If you just keep on dreaming [laughs]. Dreaming.[ Plays piano and sings “Dreamin’”]Dreaming.A lot can be said for just dreaming,A world without dreams is a sky without a rainbow,Concert with no-show,So, try dreaming,Everything's better just dreaming,You can go to heaven without leaving home,See Paris, even Rome,Sometimes we want the things that seem impossible,But dreams can make them happen, in your heart,So, start dreaming,Save a little of time for dreaming,There may be clouds but inside you're feeling sunny,Rich and not have money.[Piano interlude—repeats last stanza]Whatever you long for and all that you hope for can be yours,Try dreaming.AS: A long time ago, I was—I was told that my hands were too small. But I can stretch [plays piano]. Those hands can do a lot. Things like boogie-woogies. Go hands [laughs]!So [inaudible] the hands, the size has nothing to do with it. I just like to play.LG: Uh huh.AS: Art Tatum, I've always felt, was the greatest pianist that ever lived. Because I saw him play one time and I started to quit playing. You wouldn't believe the man could play so many keys. But I have found that great people are always nice people because the first job on the road I followed Art Tatum. And I followed a lot of giants. I didn't know they were giants. I followed Ammons and Johnson, did you ever hear of him?LG: Gene Ammons?AS: No, Gene Ammons's father. I worked with Gene Ammons a long time ago. [James] P. Johnson is the one that wrote the jazz tune called “Carolina Shout.” And I followed him, I followed Meade “Lux” [Lewis]. We followed a lot of good musicians on the road. And Art Tatum. I love Nat King Cole. I like Erroll Garner. There are so many good pianists, you know, you could never stop. There's so many of them. But Art Tatum, as far as I'm concerned, is a master.He had a way of doing things, he could [plays piano]. He was real fast; he could do a lot of things where people—he would do on one hand what other people couldn't do with two. The man was phenomenal. And I'm happy to have seen him in person.I like working with the group because it requires discipline. And the one thing I like and I appreciate my musician brothers for [is that] if they see me going in the wrong direction, they will pull my coat and I appreciate that because the only way you can grow is to learn. As long as I keep learning, I'm happy. You know, because, let me tell you something: doing a single, you can start a song and switch the tempo, play the wrong changes. But it requires discipline to play with a group. And that's what I really like, playing with a group. We can do different things. We do things that I'd never dreamed of doing when I was a single. Because, basically, as a single, I get a chance to entertain and I would just rather play, you know.I've had about eight tunes recorded [by other artists]. Kim Weston did one of my songs on that Hastings Street album, “Nobody Had to Tell Me (We Were Through).” Naima [Shamborguer], she sings about three of my songs. I have a number of artists that think that my songs are quality songs and they do them. In fact, when Naima opens, she opens with a song about Detroit called “Movin’ Along.” In fact, I played it at the retirement party and Mel Roberts asked me, he said, “Lady, who's song is that?” I told him, “Mine.” And he said, “This is the best song I've heard about Detroit.” [In] one of Jim Dulzo's columns, he said that “if the Chamber of Commerce were smart, they would use that for a song.” It's a nice little song.[Plays piano and sings “Movin’ Along (A Song for Detroit).”]Detroit is my town and I love it.In so many ways, I'm so proud of it.Detroit's gonna make it, take it from me.’Cause the best is yet to come,A-wait and see,We're moving along, doing great, looking fine,A-moving along,Makin’ it on down the line,Reaching so high. Plucking stars from out the sky,Reaching so high,Touch the moon as it floats by,Detroit's a wonderful city,We really have class,But so many beautiful people,Detroit is bound to last.Look at the scene,Everything is going swell.You know what I mean?Detroit's alive and doing well,A-shoobee-doobee-doobee-doo-pow,Talking about the “Big D,”A-shoobee-doobee-doobee-doo-pow,The great “Motor City.”[Piano continues—repeats final stanza]Hey this is my town.Love it.AS: [laughs] The first song I ever wrote—oh God—oh! The first song I really wrote; this is a true song. Benny Carter had a song called “Malibu.” And I heard it in California when I was a young girl and I wrote the lyrics. Al Hibbler, that used to sing with Duke [Ellington], heard it. He said, “Hey girl, whose song is that?” I said, “I wrote it.” And he said, “I'll give you fifty bucks for it.” I just put the lyrics to it. I said, “No, if you record it and give me credit, you can have it.” But he said, “No,” so I wouldn't give it to him. So every time he sees me he kids me about it. When he was here two years ago, he kidded me about this song. That was the first one I remember. And then I wrote a little blues and we recorded [it with] the [Two] Counts and the Countess [song] called “I Got a Man.” I can't even remember that. So, I just like to write.Well, I went to Cass Tech [high school in Detroit, Michigan], you know. And we had orchestration and harmony, we had a lot of music. I had two years—the first instrument in the girl's band was bass. We had an all-girls band; I played bass. I had two years of clarinet. And then I worked with [the] organ for two years. When I played behind Lou Rawls in ’64, I used [the] organ. I don't even think he knows that I played the piano, you know. And then I played the vibes for a long time. I just like to play.When Dakota was in Detroit, I played behind Dakota Staton. That was for about—not that long. She was here in Detroit before she had her big hit. I used to work in the place called the Hill Top House up in Pontiac [at] Telegraph and Dixie [street intersections in Pontiac, Michigan]. I worked six nights and she just worked the three nights. Jean DuShon also worked there with us there, too, you know. But I've had a chance to do a lot of things.I was on the show once with Jimmy Dorsey playing vibraharps. And I find that the better [a] person . . . is musically the easier they are to work with, because I had to play on this show with Jimmy Dorsey and I was shaking all over. And he made me so comfortable that I felt kind of proud. It's not often that I feel good about what I play because I have a tendency to try too hard and I get hyper. I get all nervous. That's just my nature, you know.But music has been good to me. I had the chance to do a lot of things and play with a lot of people. And when I go on the ship, I play with a lot of different musicians. I just have a good time playing my music, you know.I have seen Lionel Hampton many, many times because he had a pianist called Milton Buckner. And I used to take piano lessons from Milton Buckner. He was one of the people that said my hands were small, but he was an excellent teacher. Last year they had a tribute to Lionel Hampton downtown. And, as always, whenever I see somebody playing the vibes, I get all excited. So I was standing next to Lionel Hampton with my mouth wide open. The man is wonderful. So, somebody told him, “Hey Hamp, that lady plays vibes!” You know what he did [laughs]? He turned around and hand me the sticks! So, he played a lick and I played a lick and he was surprised. So, we did this four or five licks and then I said, “Let me play something I can play.” We got to the piano and he played the vibes, we had a wonderful session. But here's the funny thing: they made him an honorary judge and you know what he said: “The first thing I'm going to do—is sentence this Alma Smith woman to ninety days for coming in and stealing my show.”The first set of vibes, I took them to work in California. They were so raggedy, so the boss made me take them back. He said, “They're too raggedy to be in a nice club.” So, I went to take them back [and] the person at the store wouldn't take them because I was a young kid. And this is when I found out what power could do. My boss went over, he says, “You give this girl a set of new vibes and take the money back.” And so that's how I started vibes. Vibes are like a keyboard, but it has chimes and it gives a percussive sound, different than piano [plays vibraphone].You can get so many pretty sounds from the vibes. And if you wanted to swing with a band, it's nice. . . . There's so many things you can do with the vibes, you know. Especially in front of a band. It's just like playing a horn or something. There are a lot of things you can do; lot of effects. . . . And when you play vibes . . . if you know the keyboard, then you learn how to work on the drum pad and get your wrist flexible so your hands can do like that [plays vibraphone]. It's percussive. I just like it, that's all [laughs] . . . My first job on the road was in a place called Chin's Golden Dragon. And you wouldn't believe that I followed the greatest pianist in the world, Art Tatum. He had with him and I told him, I said, Tatum, I don't see how I can ever at the same piano you And I will never he says, girl, do what you do and going to like then, years I had the chance to work with in I did with him. And the nice from met these people was that long time ago before he to get me to come to New But the reason I wouldn't go that] he wanted me to give up the piano and play vibes I would never do that because the piano is my first