Change:
It MUST NOT include the "pre_shared_key" extension.  (See flow- clienthello-malleability.) <ins> [[OPEN ISSUE: We currently require HRR-sensitive parameters to match in ClientHelloInner and ClientHelloOuter in order to simplify client- side logic in the event of HRR.  See https://github.com/tlswg/draft- ietf-tls-esni/pull/316 for more information.  We might also solve this by including an explicit signal in HRR noting ECH acceptance. We need to decide if inner/outer variance is important for HRR- sensitive parameters, and if so, how to best deal with it without complicated client logic.]] </ins> The client might duplicate non-sensitive extensions in both messages. However, implementations need to take care to ensure that sensitive extensions are not offered in the ClientHelloOuter.  See outer-

Discussion:
This is limited to parameters applicable to TLS 1.3 and beyond. For example, TLS 1.2 ciphersuites may appear in ClientHelloOuter, so long as all TLS 1.3 ciphersuites in ClientHelloOuter match that in ClientHelloInner. cc NAME NAME
NAME NAME NAME this is ready for another look.
I'm not totally sure this is the right outcome. I can imagine situations where you might want CHOuter and CHInner to be different. I wonder if we can use a similar PRF() trick for HRR to tell which one it was, though I appreciate that this is in conflict with folding the secret into random.
I think there're three issues we'd want to sort out, to allow a mismatch. Without an ECH acceptance signal in HRR, the error gets deferred and that seems like a huge mess. I think this is the issue you have in mind with the PRF trick? If the HRR matches CHInner and is inconsistent with CHOuter, we still need to construct some CHOuter. The current draft says you don't follow the RFC8446 rules, but that can't be right because we need the cookie to appear in CHOuter even if CHOuter can't be constructed. Even if a mismatch is allowed, I think we should have text encouraging a match, so implementers know to avoid a complexity cliff if they don't need it. (It's also possible this would interact with , if we want some goofy HRRInner vs HRROuter scheme...)
Yes, I am trying to with the PRF trick. And yes, there is some possibility of a goofy HRRInner/HRROuter
I was thinking about and the discussion on server HRR checks started by URL, and I'm not sure HRR cookies even work in split mode right now. First off, suppose we don't merge something like . The current text says: This means if you get a cookied HRR only good for ClientHelloInner, there's no requirement to stick the cookie in ClientHelloOuter! But now the client-facing server can't see the cookie, so it can't be stateless. It would seem like fixes this, but now we have a more fundamental problem: whose cookie? Suppose the client-facing server wishes to handle HRR statelessly.

It decrypts the first ClientHelloInner and forwards it to the backend server. If the backend server responds with HRR, the client-facing server must forward the HRR as-is, or the transcript breaks. But the client-facing server has no opportunity to bind its state (echhrrkey) into the HRR cookie. (Perhaps there isn't even one. If there is, it's encrypted with the backend server's key anyway. Either way, it's fixed now.) The simplest solution to all this is to only support stateful client-facing servers in split mode, unless the client-facing and backend servers can coordinate enough to share one cookie. I don't know if that would satisfy everyone. I could imagine doing something horrific to URL, akin to what we did to URL, but that sounds really messy.
Let's mark this as an "OPEN ISSUE" in the draft.
Done. URL
In a normal ECHO handshake with HelloRetryRequest there are 4 ClientHellos sent: ClientHelloOuter1, ClientHelloInner1, ClientHelloOuter2, ClientHelloInner2. Encryption of ClientHelloInner2 is bound to echohrrkey so the server must have the ECHOConfig used for ClientHelloInner1 in order to process ECHO the second time. And by the time the client receives encrypted handshake traffic it is not useful to signal if ClientHelloInner1 was successfully decrypted, what matters is to know if ECHO is globally successful or not. So one aspect that I find not explained enough is whether the server replying with HRR should use ClientHelloInner1 in the transcript, or instead always takes ClientHelloOuter1 (data on the wire) regardless of the first decryption status. The ECHO status accept/reject can be conveyed based on distinction ClientHello2 inner/outer only. This point impacts the number of transcripts the client may have to try, i.e. can be sure the combination (ClientHelloInner1, ClientHelloOuter2) is never valid.
Hi NAME the spec has changed quite a bit since this question was first posed. In particular, we've landed , which changes the server behavior so that it provides an explicit signal of ECH acceptance in its SH. Hence, no more trial decryption. I'm wondering if your question still applies?

I believe what to do in case of HRR is well-specified at this point. There is no such ECH accdeptance signal provided in the HRR, so to determine if ECH was accepted, the client must wait until the SH. Until that point, the client needs to compute two transcripts in parallel: one assuming the ClientHelloOuter was used, and another assuming the ClientHelloInner was used.
I don't think resolves this. If the client has different HRR-relevant preferences (key share and cipher suite) between CHInner and CHOuter, I believe HRR is still a mess because the HRR message doesn't contain a signal for whether ECH was accepted. Though I suppose it is a little less complex now that you don't need to go as far as trial decrypting. Different HRR-relevant preferences means the HRR may be good for one ClientHello but not the other, yet the client needs to manage that state and defer the actual error-handling to when ECH acceptance is known. An option where the HRR message included an ECH acceptance signal would close this, but then we have sticking out woes. The draft touches on this, but somewhat vaguely. URL We've been intending that our implementation would always match inner and outer preferences for HRR-sensitive fields, to avoid this case. But having this odd complexity cliff hidden in the spec is poor. I'd advocate we either require or at least strongly recommend clients do this.
suggests to add the following text to the HRR section: after. Likewise, it is an error for the client to offer ECH after the HelloRetryRequest but not before. If the client-facing server accepts ECH for the first ClientHello but not the second, or it accepts ECH for the second ClientHello but not the first, then it MUST abort the handshake with an "illegal_parameter" alert. I think this solves the problem, at least partially. It ensures that the HRR path aligns with ECH acceptance/rejection.
That doesn't address the problem. This is about complexity for the client, not the server. Yes, the server needs to enforce consistency between the two modes, but it is easy for it to do this.

Imagine you're the client and your CHOuter has: keyshares = {X25519} supportedgroups = {X25519, P-256, P-384} ciphersuites = {TLSAES128GCMSHA256, TLSAES256GCMSHA384} And your CHInner has: keyshares = {P-256} supportedgroups = {X25519, P-256, P-384} ciphersuites = {TLSAES256GCMSHA384, TLSCHACHA20POLY1305SHA256} Now consider how you have to respond to each of these HRRs. Remember that at the time you process the HRR, you don't know if ECH was accepted. ciphersuite = TLSAES256GCMSHA384; keyshare = P-384 ciphersuite = TLSAES128CCMSHA256; keyshare = P-521 ciphersuite = TLSCHACHA20POLY1305SHA256; keyshare = X25519 ciphersuite = TLSAES128GCMSHA256; keyshare = P-256 ciphersuite = TLSCHACHA20POLY1305SHA256; keyshare = X25519 1 is valid for both ClientHellos. This is the easy case and you can compute new CHInner and CHOuter values. 2 is valid for neither ClientHello. If you can detect this, you can error immediately. 3 is valid for neither ClientHello, but for messy reasons. The key share is valid for CHOuter but the cipher suite is not. The cipher suite is valid for CHInner but the key share is not. (Recall that a key share in HRR is allowed if it is in CH.supportedgroups and not CH.keyshares. If it were in CH.keyshares, you shouldn't have sent HRR.) 4 is valid for only CHOuter, so you can't error. It is not possible to compute a CHInner, so I guess you drop the extension? But you still need to make a note to raise an error later if you see SH which claims it did accept ECH. 5 is valid for only CHInner, so you can't error. It is not possible to compute a CHOuter, but you have to, so I guess you send something garbage?

But you still need to make a note to raise an error if you see SH which claims it rejected ECH. This is a huge mess. The client can avoid this mess by always matching keyshares, supportedgroups, and cipher_suites between CHInner and CHOuter. That means it can process HRR without knowing which CH to use. It is not obvious in the spec that you should do this, and the spec allows you to not do this.
I see, I wasn't thinking about client complexity. Thanks for laying out the various edge cases. I would favor being stricter about how the keyshares, supportedgroups, and ciphersuites are chosen. At the very least, we should guide implementations towards ensuring they are the same in the CHInner and CHOuter. An alternative would be to add an ECH signal to HRR. We can't do the same trick we did with the URL, as this would stick out. But maybe there's another way? I thought of using HRR.sessionid, but that could get messy.
I think there is still ambiguity in the design about what CH is used by the client-facing server in its own transcript when forwarding CHInner to the backend server. Or else the combination (ECH accepted before HRR, ECH rejected after HRR) can be explicitly forbidden, but I don't see why/how.
Incidentally, this is addressed by URL This adds the following to client-facing server behavior: after. Likewise, it is an error for the client to offer ECH after the HelloRetryRequest but not before. If either of these conditions occurs, then the client-facing server MUST abort the handshake with an "illegal_parameter" alert. It's not hard for the client-facing server to enforce this. It just needs to remember if an HRR was triggered and whether ECH was offered in in the first CH.
Ok that will do it. Assuming "ECH not offered" is same as "ECH not accepted", due to greasing.