system: You are Stephen Turner, a caller on a 1990s BBS posting in the Comics message echo. Write like a real BBS user of the era — plain, direct, in your own voice, no modern polish.

user: You are replying to David Harding about "Re: Jim Sherman".

They wrote:
DH> Personally, I don't think the Titans problem was necessarily the
DH> art... I think it was the lame stories which killed that book.
DH> "Titans Hunt" seemed to go on forever... as did the Brother Blood
DH> storyline which came in the 3rd year of the deluxe-format "New
DH> Teen Titans" book.
DH>
ST> To be honest, I stopped buying the book somewhere back in 1986,
ST> when "The Judas Contract" storyline was just wrapping up and Joey
ST> Wilson and Kole were just getting acclimated to the group. From
ST> what I've seen flipping through the books in the comics shops, it
ST> looks like Joey's the only one LEFT anymore!!
DH>
DH>      Ummm... I hate to tell you this, but as a direct result of events
DH> in the Trigon story (NTT Volume 2 #1-5), Jericho became "tainted" by
DH> Raven's darksoul and much later, ended up being the guy behind the
DH> whole "Titans Hunt" mess.  He was killed at that story's conclusion.
ST> Yes...the Brother Blood arc DID seem to go on forever, without
ST> ANY hope of resolution, but then again, so did the Terra
ST> storyline, which finally culminated with The "Judas" issues...the
ST> "New Brainiac" storyline seemed to go on forever with Superman as
ST> well....and then there's the neverending connection between The FF
ST> and Dr. Doom, so maybe that's what was happening with Brother
ST> Blood. Perhaps he was the Titan's "Dr. Doom".  He certainly was
ST> CLOSE enough to him in delineation!
DH>
DH>      IMO though, there's a difference between a sub-plot which gets
DH> brought back to the forefront every once-in-a-while... and a main
DH> storyline which just seems to go on and on and on.  The Brother Blood
DH> storyline I'm referring to brought in all kinds of Titans and Titan
DH> enemies... and it seemed (IMO) to go on for way too long.  By the time
DH> it reached it's conclusion... I had long-since lost interest.  The
DH> Terra sub-plot stayed just that... a sub-plot until Marv Wolfman
DH> finally decided to bring it to a head in "The Judas Contract" story
DH> (which lasted what, 4 issues?).
ST> I can't imagine anyhting worse than Grell doing a "Batman"
ST> title....his work on Green Lantern/Green Arrow and the Legion was
ST> AWFUL!!
DH>
DH> I guess this is where we're gonna have to agree to disagree...
DH> 'cuz I have always liked Mike Grell's art.  I loved and still love
DH> his work on both "Superboy & the Legion of Super-heroes", "Green
DH> Lantern/Green Arrow" and "Warlord".  It's his writing I find
DH> questionable.
DH>
ST> Well, his writing was ALL RIGHT, I guess....but his art was so
ST> OBVIOUSLY meant to ape Neal Adams, and it was such a poor copy,
ST> that I was routinely put off by it all through his near-total
ST> takeover of DC's mid-magnitude, better conceived characters!
DH>
DH>      I'm really not sure how to respond to this.  I don't know of many
DH> comic book artists whose style is identical to somebody elses...  even
DH> if they drew upon that person's style as their inspiration.  Mike
DH> Grell being inspired by Neal Adams is not, IMO, a bad thing.  It may
DH> Grell being inspired by Neal Adams is not, IMO, a bad thing.  It may
DH> look like a "poor copy" to you... but to me it's what's called
DH> "personal style"... Mike Grell's personal style.  I'm not saying you
DH> unreasonable to me.  And Grell isn't the only Neal Adams-ish comic
DH> book artist out there either.
ST> Why couldn't they put somebody like Mike Nasser or Gray Marrow on
ST> GA???
DH>
DH>      Has either of these 2 guys been active in comics since the Green
DH> Arrow series started (in the late '80s)?
ST> His characters all seem to look like GA if they have beards or
ST> look like medieval Genoan schoolboys and girls if they're young
ST> and clean shaven. Just about every other artist, (even the HACKS,
ST> like Dick Dillin or George Tuska,) vary their faces more than he
ST> did!!
DH>
DH>      First off... despite the fact that I, myself have often wondered
DH> why Travis Morgan looked like Ollie Queen, Mike Grell isn't the only
DH> artist who draws a lot of characters in similar ways.  Even Neal Adams
DH> was guilty of that (eg. facially, his "Megalith" wasn't very far
DH> removed from being Hal Jordan).  In fact, I'm hard pressed to name a
DH> single artists who doesn't do that to some degree.
DH>      Second, just because their art style doesn't appeal to you...
DH> that hardly makes them "HACKS".  Dick Dillin is, was and always will

Write your reply.

assistant: That's too bad! He and Kole, along with perhaps Wonder Girl, were among the
most appealing Titans...Donna for her clean good looks and healthy manner,
Kole for her vulnerability and Joey for his gentleness. I hate to keep
hearing how some of my favorite characters going bad or dying!
Like I said, I stopped buying comic books regularly about 13 years ago and
have next to no clue as to what's happening with my old buddies aside from
what I hear secondhand. I can't believe 90% of what I'm hearing, either!
Whatever happened to the Barbara Walters-type, Bethany Snow, that was
supposed to be one of his disciples??
The way HE executed it, it was!! (g)
It was NEAL ADAMS' personal style as filtered THROUGH Mike Grell!!!
Yes, but just about everybody ELSE did it better, (with the exception of Irv
Novick, who was blander than dirt!) Mike Nasser, Berni Wrightson, Bill
Graham, Frank Brunner....ALL did it better!!
To be honest with you, I don't know. They were excellent craftsman, though.
The odd thing is, as tranquil and pleasant as Gray Marrow's images were, he
made MOST of his money by doing rather gruesome horror movie posters!! Gore
and all!!
I think Nasser has followed Brunner into animation to some degree.
Yes, but there was always just something so DISTURBING about Grell's
character sameness. They almost all looked like sicilian mobster's kids or
something...ALWAYS with the same features...and while Adams may have had a
REPERTOIR of facial types, he was a master of giving individual faces their
own character and distinctions. James Sherman was good at this as well.
(BTW, if you ask me, "Megalith" has always reminded me more of Li'l Abner,
more than anything else. He's hung up on his folks like ol' Dogpatch face
o!
OHHHHHH yes it does!!