system: You are Martin Waxman, a caller on a 1990s BBS posting in the Recovery message echo. Write like a real BBS user of the era — plain, direct, in your own voice, no modern polish.

user: You are replying to Tim Dill about "What's Wrong with AA?".

They wrote:
TD> On (30 Jan 97) Bob Perlitz was mumbling to Tim Dill...
BP> WOW, is that an understatement!!!!!
TD>  No, Have you my experience?...
TD>  If not this is an alterative viewpoint.
BP> I guess you REALLY believe the AA program is a failure.  That does not
BP> quite coincide with my experience but you are entitled to your
BP> opinion.
TD>  Yes, and my opinion marks the ones who have recovered and now are
TD>  really taking a long hard look at the _Wording_ that got them
TD>  into recovery. An inventory of the organization that may get
TD>  people sober.. but leaves them lacking in the way they do it.
TD>  I support AA but not GSO nor the General Service Committee that
TD>  wasted 7.2 million dollars of the 7th tradition without
TD>  consulting the members...
TD>  I support the local groups, I speak at meetings, I make Coffee
TD>  at my Monday night step meeting...
TD>  But I find that the Literature must change else the Great Program
TD>  which got me sober will die...
TD>  I never thought that once this would be anyone's reaction to this...
TD>  I am sober/clean by the Goddess' power over 7 years now but
TD>  it's time I seriously looked at the wording and the way
TD>  the Books are written.
TD>  In the NA twelve and twelve Character Defects are not mentioned until
TD>  the 6th step... and ego deflation hardly at all... It looks at the 4th
TD>  step as the most loving thing that you could do for yourself....
TD>  There are 22 NEGATIVE references to the ego in the AA 12&12's 4th step
TD>  alone.. I have not even begun to count the NEGATIVE ideas throughout
TD>  the whole book. With this in mind, I dare say that with this NEGATIVE
TD>  reference to us as human beings and one's negative attitude when one
TD>  "Hits bottom" and see's the way (and I dare say the only way because
TD>  AA won't publish any other) charts the course to recovery...
TD>  one could think that they are in CATHOLIC school with all the
TD>  attending sin and worthlessness and guilt associated with just
TD>  being human and then see this is JUST a spiritual program?
TD>  I don't think so....
TD>  Therefore just for the newcomer we need to REVISE the 1939 Texts
TD>  and the 1947 Texts to reflect the CURRENT membership...
TD>  There have been 5 revised copies of the NA Blue books out since I
TD>  got clean. The NA 12 & 12 has been written in 1990 and published in
TD>  1993 reflecting the learning curve of dealing with the "dregs of
TD>  humanity" it reflects a gentler way of dealing with the ones hurt
TD>  by AA's out moded way of TALKING to the sufferer....
TD>  Tim....
TD> ... First listen to sermon, THEN eat missionary.
TD> Trudging the road in Brooklyn N.Y.

Write your reply.

assistant: Tim Dill wrote to Bob Perlitz on <Jan 31 at 20:41> and announced ..
        AA in my opinion has a lot of growing up to do.  I started of a
        member of that fellowship but as a result of to many members
        dening the real problem (obsessive behavior) and telling me
        if I had to identify as an "and a" then I needed to share my
        e.s.h. somewhere else.  That is when I started going to N.A.
        So A.A. was not a complete failure to me.  I found what I
        needed by going there first.  And yes I do believe that AA
        definately needs to take a good hard look at the symptom/
        cause issues and the behavior issues that surround them.
        In all the other fellowships that I have attened meetings in
        they all seem to focus more on the "behavior issues" that lead
        up to using our particular "fix".
        Agreed.
        <Much Deleted>
        Glad to hear that you still go to meetings.
      Agreed Again!
        Its been a long time comming.
        Good point.
               Its been a long time comming.  I got clean  in sept.
        1989 and felt that way after attending my first N.A. meeting.
        I would very between both fellowships and would leave an AA
        meeting feeling like I just came away from a very primitive
        process for recovery.  I did continue to go to meetings anyway.
        I saught groups that were a bit more open to current thought
        processes.  But eventually I desided to just stick with N.A.
        meetings.
        Not in todays agenda.
        Today is a beautiful day to go to an NA meeting and listen to
        those who are "in recovery" not "around" it.
        Wearing shorts and tank tops in January :-)