EDIT: 7/30/08 - I've closed this thread to encourage everyone here to post their work in their own Personal Sketchbook Thread in the Personal Anatomy & Sketchbook Threads (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=200) forum.  All are welcome to continue to use the reference here and to browse this thread, however it is no longer open for posting. 

EDIT: 3/5/08 - I've moved this thread to the Personal Anatomy and Sketchbook Threads forum as I'm hoping that our members here will contribute to encouraging and critiquing our beginning members. 

____

Everyone,

Feeling like a newbie and kinda intimidated?  Don't be ~ here is one place (though in truth, I don't think it should be the only place, by any means) to feel free to post your work, discuss your images with one another, and to get feedback from more experienced artists who can help you along in your journey as artists. 

For starters, why not post, say, 2-5 examples of your most recent / best work for comments / feedback?  Everything here is informal, and anyone is free to comment on anyone else's work. 

We can take it from there.  Don't be shy!  No one is here to judge you ~ the purpose of the WIP forum and Anatomy sub~forum is to help people grow and mature in their artwork.  We all have to start somewhere, and here is a good place to get started. 

It contains all of the original Tutorial material from the Anatomy Review 003, which talks about Digital and Traditional methods and principles of Shading. 

All are welcome to try out the Exercises and to post their WIP here. 

15 Minute Sketchathon - Beginners' Edition

For those of you who wish to participate in the 15 Minute Sketchathon (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=295498), but are too shy to post in that thread, why not use the daily References which are posted here:

I frequently recommend that people do Master Copies ~ it's a great way to learn the figure quickly.  Doing Master Copies using a new software package also helps you to learn the software package quickly. 

Click on link above to be taken to thread containing links to many Master Copy Resources.  Freel free to post your results here! 

I recommend setting a goal for doing a certain number of Master Copies per week ~ 5 optimally, but it depends on the amount of time you have.  The main point is to do MANY of them, as the more you draw, the better you will become. 

Dreamy Kid

11-27-2005, 01:04 AM

allow me to roll the ball , here goes nothing:D, i did this quick sketch earlier this day

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/2618/ld14nr.jpg

slightly fixed
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6382/ld1b8dh.jpg

Rebeccak

11-27-2005, 01:22 AM

Dreamy Kid,
Nice!  Not so bad for a beginner! : wip: Ok, the first thing I notice is that the arms are too small for the rest of the body.  Also, it's a tough thing to get the head / face to work with the body ~ something you will often see even master draughtsmen do is to do a larger study of the head on the side of their figurative drawings ~ drawing larger enables anyone to get more detail.  I would suggest doing a larger, separate study of the head on a new page (if the drawing was not done from life).  If the drawing was done from life, I would suggest using photo reference from the web of a head in a similar position to practice getting the relationship of major facial features. :)  But you've got a great start, and hope to see more of your work! :) 

Now, what I always ask new folks is to tell us a bit about your training and bkgrd.  It helps me to know where people are coming from, and what type of artistic training they've had. :) 

Thanks for this great suggestion! 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Ceremei

11-27-2005, 01:38 AM

Well this seems to be an excellent place for me :D expect to see some WIPs from me soon! 
(Since I am a starter with this whole forum as well)

But one question: what kinds of pictures are allowed?  I mean, does it have to be an anatomy study or such? 
Haha it seems I missed something there..

Dreamy Kid

11-27-2005, 01:56 AM

thanks rebecca for the great input, i did fix it a bit on the hands and i think it's slightly better now :).  i'll do more studies on the head, and i'll probably post some work soon.  anyway, my background is 3d modelling, did a bit of character design, i also do some website design.  Just recently, I'm working on this personal project, a 3d model of a man including all the muscle >__< i realized how little i know about human anatomy, i'm fascinated by it and decided to learn about it seriously.  I've been drawing for a long time, but i think it's the time i learn it properly and seriously.  I'm working on my own website where i'll put some of my work but for now i'll show you something from my past work so that you got a glimpse of what i've been doing. 
here is some drawing i did a while a go, willy wonka and the oompa loompas :wip:
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/8518/wonka2qz.jpg

and i drew this one af i watched the passion of christ
http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/8967/forgotten9iy.jpg

i've been a quite a self learner all this time when it comes to drawing, i learn most of the things from this forum, books about drawing,figure drawing, and anatomy, lock my self for hours in my room haha.  i would say that i got better and improve a lot after i learn all this things - i just wished i've learnt this earlier but i guess late is better than nothing at all, let me show you my drawing from last year...yeap this is my best drawing from last year hahaha :
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5726/sample4yi.jpg

thank you for the help, I do really enjoy this learning process :)

Rebeccak

11-27-2005, 02:11 AM

Dreamy Kid,

You have some nice work here!  There is a girl in my current CGWorkshop class who draws in a similar manga style, and who similarly recognized that in order to improve in that style, she needed to study real anatomy.  I think you've already recognized that one really must learn to draw realistically first, and learn to stylize second. :) 

"Anatomy Lessons From The Great Masters", by Robert Beverly Hale and Terence Coyle - Watson Guptill, publisher (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0823002810/002-6733442-6091234?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance)

"The Human Machine: The Anatomical Structure and Mechanism of the Human Body", by George Bridgeman - Dover, publisher (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0486227073/002-6733442-6091234?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance)

I have all of these books and more, but think that these are the best of the lot.  I've done just tons of copies from "Anatomy Lessons From The Great Masters" and have found it to be an invaluable resource. 

Learning Anatomy takes time, and there aren't really any shortcuts. 

Set yourself some goals.  For example, why not try in the next week to do 2-3 master copies?  Or even just one, if there is not enough time to do more?  The purpose is to start. :)  Master drawings are easy to find on the web, if you don't have art books ~ I like Michelangelo, Pontormo, Leonardo, and Rubens.  But there are just hundreds of artists to choose from.  I really recommend Renaissance artists, however, as they are the best of the best in terms of figurative drawing. :) 

Looking forward to seeing more work of yours! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

11-27-2005, 02:37 AM

thank you, you hit me on the spot, i always draw in that kind of style and just realized that i need to learn drawing realistically to improve my drawing, kind of late after all this time, but oh well :).  i got some of the books already, in fact i've just bought the atlas of human anatomy 2 weeks a go and find it really useful, i think i'll do some book shopping someday this week.  so teacher, i guess my assignment for this week is make some master copy and do study on head ?  ^__^ thanks reb i really appreciate all your help here , i hope you're not tired of me hehe :D

Rebeccak

11-27-2005, 02:41 AM

Heheh, nope, I don't get tired of people unless they call me "Becky" :D in which case, they get the boot. :) 

No problem!  Yep, your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to do at least one master study this week, and hopefully 2-3. :)  If you post your work by Sunday, I'll be a happy camper.  ^_^

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Kencho

11-27-2005, 03:28 PM

@dreamy kid: Nice ones! * claps*

Well, here goes some from me...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/kencho/Centaur.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/kencho/Studies_08-facefeatureseyes.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/kencho/Studies_07-faces.jpg
These are the best of my latest "studies".  Done with mechanical pencil in short breaks I take while programming.  Sorry for the scripting on the back of the paper, but I use the back of useless papers as drafts :shrug:None of them with any reference, and some of them are unfinished. 

About my artistic background... well, basically none :P I liked drawing since I was very young (about 4 or 5 -now I'm 25), but most of my life has been anime-oriented, so guess :rolleyes: I've tried almost every kind of digital art (besides pencil drawing), including photomanipulations, 3D modelling... Now I'm focusing both on getting the theory about drawing and painting (anatomy, colours...) and the technique (lots of training with pencil and the tablet), but as you can guess, I don't advance much without help and advices from professionals, so I decided to join the CGTalk community and learn from the best :)

Please, tell me what you think, specially my failures and how I could improve, thanks a lot! 

Rebeccak

11-27-2005, 03:42 PM

Kencho,

Great to see your work, and your eye studies in particular are quite beautiful!  With the top image of the minotaur (is that right?)  there are problems, which I think can only be remedied, I think, through the combination of life drawings, master copies, and copies of anatomy reference. 

First ~ do you have any anatomy or art books from which you can make copies?  And if so, what are their titles?  Check out the list of books linked at the top of this thread ~ these are the books which I would highly recommend for anyone interested in Anatomy to have.  If I were to choose just two, I would pick "Artistic Anatomy" and "Anatomy Lessons from the Great Masters".  I think you can get years of mileage out of just these two books. 

I would also add "Dynamic Anatomy" if you don't already have it and can afford it. 

I also recommend picking up a few books from the really cheap Master Draughtsman Series of Paperback Books: as I wrote in the Anatomy Books thread, these are great books because they are cheap, light, and great for copying from, as you will not be concerned about destroying the book ~ they are really instructional devices, more than anything else.  To find: run search for "master draughtsman series" on Amazon.com. 

Once I know which books you have, would you be willing to take on an assignment? :)  There's no magic formula for improvement ~ it's just practice, or "mileage" as they used to call it in school. :) 

Well, I am off to run some errands / get some 'life' stuff done ;) but will be checkin' back later. :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Kencho

11-27-2005, 03:55 PM

Thanks for the suggestions :) I don't own any book on this subject, but I think I can grab some of these from my local library :)
I would like to take on an assignment, yes.  Just ask and I'll give it my best try ;)

Thanks a lot for the help you offer us here :bounce:

Rebeccak

11-27-2005, 04:12 PM

Kencho,

No problem! :)  When you get your books, let me know, and we'll take it from there. :) 

Look forward to working with you! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Kencho

11-27-2005, 08:03 PM

I feel honoured :) I'll take a look in the library tomorrow :) Can't wait to start :bounce:

fredlovebot

11-27-2005, 09:32 PM

Great idea!  It was a bit intimidating for me to post sketches and such in other threads but I guess its a little better here :)

Around a year ago I found out that it was quite fun to doodle and stuff, but I did never do so when I was a kid.  Although i havnt painted at all this summer (Im into alot of videographing and photographing skateboarding and have been doing so for 2 years, so it kinda sucks up all my time(and money..) in the summer ^^).  Never took classes and such, although Im having a class right now about product design.  Looking forward to improving myself! 

Heres two image of some recent work. 
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1722/sub5rl.th.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sub5rl.jpg)

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7769/skullsidesketchsmall9rf.th.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skullsidesketchsmall9rf.jpg)
Around 45min for this one, had alot of fun doing it!  Loved to play around with values! 

Kencho

11-27-2005, 09:37 PM

Gorgnut, that skull looks great, and the values are perfect IMHO! 

fredlovebot

11-27-2005, 09:56 PM

:) :) Thank you! 
I made it in Painter with just pure white, pure black and middle gray.  First I did a little sketch and tried to nail the proportions correct.  Then I used the Digital Airbrush and the "Just add water" blender (Blenders -> Just Add Water).  The great thing about it was that it was so flexible!  If you have a copy of Painter I suggest you to try it out, I didn't find it hard at all and it was great fun! 

Dreamy Kid

11-28-2005, 03:51 AM

:wavey:hey kencho and gorgnut welcome to this thread, nice to see you guys here

Becca, I've been out all day and i'm beat:scream:, i went to a local second hand book store and do some book shopping ^__^. I was able to find this book for a good deal ( everything under canadian $13:twisted: Dynamic anatomy by Burne Hogarth, Anatomy lessons from the great master, and drawing lessons from the great masters, glad to add them to my library :).  i couldnt spend more time doing the book hunting since they were about to close, but i'll probably going back there someday this week.  I havent drawn anything today:bowdown:, been busy working on some web design for clients and do some school project.  i'll try to do some things tomorrow after school and post them later on, thanks

Rebeccak

11-28-2005, 03:59 AM

Dreamy Kid,

AWESOME!!!  Those are some GREAT books, and I'm thrilled you've found them!  Spent all day book shopping, eh? :)  Well, look at it this way ~ you won't have to do that again, at least for Anat.  books, for quite a while. :) 

Alrighty then...I would just pick a few master drawings that you like from the Anatomy Lessons from the Great Masters book, and have at it!  I would recommend either using 2B-4B pencils or my personal favorite, ballpoint pen for these studies, in a sketchbook.  You may at one point want to get a fairly large (11x14) sketchbook, but really an 8.5 x 11" sketchbook should do.  I know the sizes differ from country to country, but just use your best judgement ~ standard letter size or larger should suffice. 

Looking forward to seeing your first copies!  Let me know which pages you're copying from, so that I can look at the same reference. :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

11-28-2005, 04:21 AM

bec, before i forgot i actually have some question regarding drawing media, I always draw using 2b mechanical pencil, and rarely use regular pencil or ballpoint pen.  I just thought that mechanical pencil give a fine sharp line and it's good for a study.  do you think i should try regular pencil or ballpoint pen?  I was planning to do some gesture drawing tomorrow just for warming up, i find it relaxing somehow hehe - maybe i should try experimenting using ballpoint or regular pencil just to get the feel of it?  sorry this is sounds like a silly question :rolleyes:

Rebeccak

11-28-2005, 04:27 AM

Hey, no, it's not really a silly question at all ~ there's really no 'right' media to use ~ I have my personal favorites, and one happens to be ballpoint pen ~ but that's just me. :)  I think mechanical pencils are fine ~ whatever you are most comfortable with.  When I did studies like these in school, I used both pencils and ballpoint pen.  The thing I like about pen is that it forces you to concentrate, since you can't erase.  This can sometimes be a blessing in disguise. :) 

At any rate, the materials you use are totally up to you. :)  The only thing I would recommend is to use decent quality sketchbook paper.  But, if you don't have any, any paper should do. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Kencho

11-28-2005, 03:03 PM

Well, I went to my university library and found only these two:
- Drawing Dynamic Hands (Burne Hogarth)
- Bridgman's Complete Guide to Drawing From Life (George Bridgman)
Anyway, seems that Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy will be returned soon, so I'll try to pick it as soon as possible. 
Something interesting from those books, or I'll have to google for something? :) 

Rebeccak

11-28-2005, 08:14 PM

Kencho,

These are both great books!  I would say, as your first assignment, to just choose 2~3 drawings from these books, and do copies in a sketchbook, using either pencil or ballpoint pen.  Post your results here in one week, and we will give them a review! :) 

Also, be sure to post the page 3#s of the images you will be copying, so that I can refer to the same reference. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Kencho

11-28-2005, 08:16 PM

Your wish is my command :D

Rebeccak

11-28-2005, 08:19 PM

LOL! : scream: Looking forward to seeing your work. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

11-28-2005, 09:45 PM

my instructor at college was teaching boring html, so I spent the time read the thread about gesture drawing lol.  anyway I did a few gesture drawings today ^__^ it's relaxing and help me to loosen up,( i'll post some tomorrow) and hopefully not too tired to do some head study tonight before i went to sleep. 

been scanning through my book and looking for a master work to copy, hopefully i'll do good on it :)

good luck with your assignment kencho, i'm working on it as well and try my best to finish it before sunday, we dont want to get a detention from teacher becca ,do we? 

Rebeccak

11-28-2005, 09:59 PM

good luck with your assignment kencho, i'm working on it as well and try my best to finish it before sunday, we dont want to get a detention from teacher becca ,do we? 
:D *snickers* :)

me_aaeem

11-29-2005, 10:53 AM

hi guys...thanks for opening this thread...rebecca i've been following your anatomy threads and trying to learn life drawing...it's really fun...i'm actually quite shy to post my drawing is quite messy in style ^_^...i dunno but i can only draw while in this fast-sketchy style....i tend to hv a "critical thinking" if i draw slowly, patiently and detaily...i really want to improve my strokes...any tips guys?  thanks...

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4165/lifedrawing27lm.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1449/lifedrawing1vp.jpg

*sorry for the broken english ^_^;

Rebeccak

11-29-2005, 12:03 PM

me_aaeem,

Welcome aboard!  It's nice to see your work, you've got some really nice stuff here! :)  Not much time to post now, but would you be willing to do a few anatomy exercises on this thread? :) 

Also, what is your training and background? :) 

Cheers, and welcome! :) 

~Rebeccak

me_aaeem

11-29-2005, 12:55 PM

hi rebecca ^_^v

i'm now a sophomore at my uni...i hv basics in photography, video editting and 3d...

here they mainly teach on software and design works, so there's very little touched on fine arts but just art basics...there's no life drawing classes here...i really like to learn it...i picked up a book on the subject "The Natural Way to Draw (Nicolaides)" and use any pictures i can find to learn it and also read anatomy threads from cgtalk and conceptart...

thanks for the offer...i'm very happy to do exercises in this forum...

i'll try to pickup some life drawing books in next few days...looking foward to learn from you and everbody...

cheers...

MatthewRodgers

11-29-2005, 01:16 PM

Hey Reb (since thats what u are going by in here.) 
im in on this cos i need some reason to practise. 
At my job i get an hour for lunch so Im going to start doing anatomy practise during that time.  Im going to pick up "Anatomy Lessons from the great masters" on my way to work tomorrow. ( i just checked onlineand its available). 
Any particulars for the assignment? 
or should i just get the book and get moving, knocking back mileage on the road to greatness ??  xD

by the way thanks for tirelessly posting and replying.  You devote a lot of energy to such threads here on CG talk.  Know it is appreciated. 

Oh - as for my training and background - i have just completed (as in 2weeks ago - yah me) a Bachelor Degree in Design at Massey University in Wellington NZ.  My major was 3D animation, but i did some illustration and life drawing papers during it.  However i didnt apply myself that well in papers other than animation - and now i want to improve in my drawing and illustration skills.  Especially in anatomy and i REALLY would like to be good at portraiture.  I can get a likeness now but im not happy with my work.  Ill scan some stuff in 2moro maybe and show u some examples. 
I work for a web design company (only as of the past 2 weeks) so far designing avatars and such for them.  I always planned to get into 3D character animation, and while i have done a little contract work in that area recently too, I am more open to my career moving in an organic direction than i was while still studying. 
ha.  thats a life story huh? 
cool
till then

Rebeccak

11-29-2005, 02:13 PM

@me_aaeemm

Thanks for that!  It's always interesting for me to know something about you guys, everyone has diverse backgrounds, so it's cool to hear! :)  Check out some of the books listed above, remember that they may be available at your local library! 

I will try tonight to get together a little exercise to post for everyone here who is interested in doing one.  I think it's great to see your guys' enthusiasm!  Anyone is welcome to join in at any point. :) 

@Cavematty,

Thanks!!  It's nothing but fun for me. :)  I am happy to help people who are motivated to draw and paint the human figure! :) 

Looking forward to seeing your work, and as I mentioned above, I will try to post a little exercise tonight.  However, if you just want to go ahead and take 2-3 master drawings and start right in on doing copies, I would not be opposed! :) 

I would use either pencil (2 - 4B) or ballpoint pen to do these studies, on good (decent) sketchbook paper. :) 

Looking forward to your posts! 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

fredlovebot

11-29-2005, 06:30 PM

Alright, trying to find time for some sketches inbetween my math and physics studies (big tests coming up).  Also loaned a book about known European Sculptures from A.D 1000-1800.  There were some good references in there that Im going to try and use as reference. 

found and borrowed "drawing lessons fromt the great masters" from the library today...did this master copy from page 223 during between classes...

i some questions regarding copying from the masters...

1)what are the things that I need to concentrate while learning this way, is it to make exact resemblence?  anatomy/pose/gesture?  the essence of the work? 

2)from your experience which is a better approach?  doing master copy with various styles?  or try to assimilate the master's style? 

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6015/lifedrawing36dr.jpg

Rebeccak

11-30-2005, 12:06 PM

Hey, you guys!  Good to see your work here.  I'll post some comments soon. :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

CalvinChoy

11-30-2005, 11:49 PM

Hi everyone,

I just got my wacom tablet and want to start drawing.  I am totally new to the drawing, I'm thinking to copy some anatomy drawings.  Does it matter with which part im starting ?  arms, legs head etc. .  maybe some parts are easy to start with ? 

thnx in advance

Rebeccak

12-01-2005, 12:03 AM

Calvin_C,

Welcome aboard! :)  Have you ever done any traditional drawing before?  It's okay if you haven't, I am just curious so I can know where you are coming from.  Can you tell us a bit about your background and training, and how you came to be interested in figurative art? :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

CalvinChoy

12-01-2005, 12:16 AM

Hi rebeccak :)

Well, from origin im actually webdesigner.  I have played photoshop for years, but never used it for painting, only for retouching and layout design, I know nothing about all the brush settings for painting in photoshop.  i've also done some 3D modeling in maya . .  but that changed after I found out all the stuff you can make with painting in photoshop. 

I discovered this forum when I was reading a magazine, just surfed by and I was amazed by the paintings . .  Actually i've been trolling this forum for a while, but always had problem to get started heheh, I got my tablet . .  so I think i should be ready to go =/ And finally . .  I followed some basic drawing dvd's from vilppu. 

simply said, my background training for drawing is zero . .  well maybe a little bit more now after the training videos and all the forum trolling :p

Hope this helped a little :)

Rebeccak

12-01-2005, 12:24 AM

Calvin_C,

Hey, that's really helpful to know, I'm glad to see that you are finally posting after perusing the forum, and it's particularly helpful to know that you've watched some Vilppu DVD's. : thumbsup: I have not personally seen them, but have his book and know well his approach ~ it's basically the same approach as I was trained in in school, and so I am familiar with the basic principles which he teaches.  I will have a bit more time to post more later (my apologies for not posting a true exercise yet) but I would recommend as a start to just test out your Wacom (and this may seem silly) by doing a bunch of scribbly lines with varying line weights (remember that Wacom's are pressure sensitive) and also drawing a bunch of basic shapes that you are familiar with from 3D ~ spheres, cubes, cylinders, toruses, cones, etc ~ just draw several "pages" of these to get warmed up.  This is particularly useful because all basic figurative drawing starts out with the basic principle of constructing human form out of basic primitive shapes.  Vilppu calls the basic torso a 'peanut' shape, and it is the most useful concept I've come across in terms of expressing human form simply.  Draw a bunch of organic shapes first, and feel free to post your results here! 

As for Photoshop settings, I recommend using the Airbrush setting for your brush, and using the color black on a white bkgrd (create a new layer above your bkgrd for your brushstrokes) and work in a decently large format ~ say 800 x 600 at 72 dpi, or 600 x 800, whatever ~ and just get in there and start doodling!  The main bit at this point is to get familiar with the feel of the Wacom tablet. :) 

And, as I say, post those doodles! 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak

12-01-2005, 06:50 AM

ASSIGNMENT 1: GESTURE DRAWING FROM REFERENCE

As an assignment, I would choose 2~3 drawings OR reference images of your choice, give yourself 1 WEEK, and post your results here! :)  Whatever stage you are at is fine ~ if you are just testing your wacom, that is fine. 

What I recommend is the following: for each of the Reference images you choose to work from, do 3 timed poses.  Start from the beginning with each drawing ~ don't build on top of just one drawing, but do 3 SEPARATE drawings. 

So, for instance, if you were to draw from, say, a master copy:

1.  Do a 2 minute drawing from the master copy. 

Capture the ESSENCE.  Draw fast.  Get down the essential information.  Do not draw details at this stage! 

I am not sure I got this increasing timer thingy right as it's an advice of yours for the sketchathon, too:

I do three separate sketches of 2,5 and 15 so they add up to an overall 22 or do I continue on the 2-min-sketch til I reach the 5 minutes and then for another ten so I spent fifteen minutes all in all? 

I think I will use my sketch in sketchathon as a basis for the OFDW008.  As a matter of fact, the creative explosion in the sketchathon is almost scary.  Think I will try to get some gestures rolling in here and at the same time try to come up with something proper in the OFDW...

I think I lost some weight´on this CGdiet - it all boils down to forgetting about the meals altogether:p

CalvinChoy

12-01-2005, 10:12 AM

Hey rebaccak, thnx for getting me started.  I started right away yesterday, and did some more this morning.  I probably missed your gesture post ( different time-zone i guess ), will try to do some gesture later on. 

anyway I drawed 3 pages.  When I woke up in the morning today and looked at what I've drawed yesterday night on page one, I had to laugh lol . . .  guess it was too late :p

cheers :)

Rebeccak

12-01-2005, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Mu: Do I do three separate sketches of 2,5 and 15 so they add up to an overall 22
Yep!  DO NOT do just 1 drawing from one Reference image.  Do 3 Drawings from 1 Reference image. 

These are not cumulative!  Start from scratch on each drawing in terms of time. :) 

I think I will use my sketch in sketchathon as a basis for the OFDW008.  As a matter of fact, the creative explosion in the sketchathon is almost scary.  Think I will try to get some gestures rolling in here and at the same time try to come up with something proper in the OFDW...
Great!  I think the Sketchathon thread is the perfect launching point from a fast drawing to one that is more complex.  Perfect! :)  Scary, but good. : thumbsup:

I think I lost some weight´on this CGdiet - it all boils down to forgetting about the meals altogether:p
LMAO! : scream:

~~

Originally posted by Calvin_C: Hey rebaccak, thnx for getting me started.  I started right away yesterday, and did some more this morning.  I probably missed your gesture post ( different time-zone i guess ), will try to do some gesture later on. 

anyway I drawed 3 pages.  When I woke up in the morning today and looked at what I've drawed yesterday night on page one, I had to laugh lol . . .  guess it was too late :p
No prob! :)  Hehe, that's the point ~ get the practice out of the way.  That last page looks good!!  Looking forward to seeing your Gesture Drawings.  No worries, I posted it at around 1 am my time. ;) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Kopprsnake

12-01-2005, 12:30 PM

I'm new to posting in here, but I've been lurking for a while, probably hoping for a beginners thread like this. 

Anyhoo, I've always had an interest in drawing/painting and CG art, but apart from doodling and dabbling with various aspects of 3D, I haven't taken my interest further.  Due to my lack of a traditional arts background I found it difficult to develop my ideas, and this limited the things I could do in 3D. After several unsuccessful attempts to work around it, I decided to teach myself drawing/painting skills with the help of books.  Recently I joined an evening class in drawing/painting to enhance my learning, and now all the bits and bobs I've picked up over the years are starting to fit together.  My focus on 3D has taken a back-seat for the time being, while I get up to speed with drawing/painting. 

Below is a link to a drawing I have been working on in my art class; a copy of 'Morning Sun' by Edward Hopper.  It is one of the few 'proper' drawings I have done since I was at school and the only tonal/chiaro-scuro drawing I have ever done, but I have learned quite a lot while doing it. 

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/kopprsnake/HopperCopy.jpg

Mu

12-01-2005, 02:02 PM

Hi everyone,

background: amateur enthusiast.  no courses.  I have always loved to draw.  Never been good at it, though.  I tried watercolor and pastels (pastel chalk) for a while, but gave it up, coz I sucked, really.  Then I discovered a 30-days-painter demo, adequate freeware and a tablet for 15€. I ignited again and I cannot tell you how I love to ctrl+z things when with traditional media I had to throw away big sheets of paper and feel bad for a week. 

I plan to go back to traditional one day, though. 

In the meantime I shall get better. 

the Plan: get good at anatomy, do an anatomy thread, study in the OFDWs, get good at sketching, work through all of my ressources

Ressources:
- all of the loomis books as pdf (currently working on the "hands"-section in "fun with a pencil")
- burne hogarth: drawing dynamic hands, drawing the human head(english title?) 
- everything online, it's a bounty! 

sorry for the weird lines in the drawings - that's because I often draw while doing business calls at work on my statistics sheet! 

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/9413/mrmuretrospective0cl.jpg

Rebeccak

12-01-2005, 02:23 PM

Kopprsnake,

Welcome aboard, we're glad to have you!  I think this thread was a good idea too, so thanks to Dreamy Kid for the notion! :) 

Will have a better chance to look at your work later this evening.  Thanks for telling us about yourself!  All hobbyists and enthusiasts are welcomed! :) 

Mr. Mu,

Sounds like a good plan!  Thanks for the background info, it is helpful to me and also interesting.  Looking forward to working with you, and laughing all along the way! :) 

Will definitely check out your work later on. :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-01-2005, 09:25 PM

oh, rebecca!  This task is driving me mad.  I had been feeling like I had improved a bit over the last four weeks especially and now this...
I took a timer software and artweaver (http://www.artweaver.de)

why oh why and how have i become so bad again:cry::cry:? 
Could be my crappy equipment - i will try this now with pencil/sketchbook, but can not post it as I do not have a scanner at home...

Rebeccak

12-01-2005, 09:32 PM

Mr. Mu,

Never fear!  Good drawings days are like good hair days, they come and go. :)  I actually really like your 2 minute sketch ~ I would encourage you to do more of these!  It's okay to have a drawing day that you don't consider to be your best ~ there is an old art school saying that the first 500 drawings you do are just to get the bad ones out.  It's TOTALLY true ~ I have just heaps of bad drawings that I keep just to taunt me.  Really, for every 7~10 drawings I do, I will get maybe one worth saving.  Drawing is not an exact science, and your mood, environment, and lots of other factors can affect how you draw on any given day.  Don't despair ~ make judgements on a batch of drawings, not just one or two. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

12-01-2005, 10:37 PM

hello peeps, sorry for havent posted in the past 2 days....work and college has been brutal, <i hate groupwork:argh:>.  So happy to see more people join this thread, the more the merrier.  I'm trying my best to draw and learn at least 2 hours a day.  so far so good.  been doing some gesture drawing this past dew days, and following the mini excercise, thanks a lot becca I learnt alot. 

The main problem I found :
sometimes it's hard for me to get a conclusion of shape from the body part, so i end up with a weird shape sometimes.  In my humble opinion, One thing i found useful to cure this "syndrome" is to get a good understanding of shape conclusion.  therefore blocking the body with simple shape really helps.  yesterday I did a quick 15 min master copy gesture drawing, and i wasnt happy with that, kind of frustrating - you know that there was something's wrong with but dont know what's wrong and dont know how to fix.  so i stop drawing for a while, sit back, and grab my collection of anatomy book.  I did some practice using Andrew loomis' manequin.  I hope my sharing is useful for you guys. 

I think i see a bit improvement in the second picture, well hopefully there is :D.

I'll definitely will do some more practice this weekend and post some more, thanks for the mini tut bec:thumbsup:

Dreamy Kid

12-01-2005, 10:49 PM

Rebeccak
Never fear!  Good drawings days are like good hair days, they come and go. :)  I actually really like your 2 minute sketch ~ I would encourage you to do more of these!  It's okay to have a drawing day that you don't consider to be your best ~ there is an old art school saying that the first 500 drawings you do are just to get the bad ones out.  It's TOTALLY true ~ I have just heaps of bad drawings that I keep just to taunt me.  Really, for every 7~10 drawings I do, I will get maybe one worth saving. 

thats true bec, sometimes i even scared to open my sketch book, I have more bad drawings than the not-so-bad one, i sometimes even scared to show people my sketch book.  I feel like i want to rip off all the bad drawing and left the good one haha, but when i look back at my old sketch book, I noticed the improvement, so i'll just keep learning and enjoy it ^__^. the first 500 drawings are the bad ones eh, so i guess 500 and counting down for me haha

I just snatched some reference pictures from OFDW008, since my books are not arriving soon :S, probably after xmas i think, I do bought a book with all the work of michelangelo, i will try to copy something if i got time.  School and stuff is driving me crazy, during the week im at campus, and my wacom tablet is at home :( but i will try to draw something everyday with paper and pencils :)

It's getting late here, I just finished 1 reference drawing, a 2 minute sketch and a 7 minute sketch, would love to do the 15 mins one if i had more time, I know nothing about shading .. actually i dont know what to do with the 15 mins sketch . . .  what detail can i add, my drawing is a mess already :p I think adding small details will get worse hehe. .  dont want to think about drawing the little eyes and stuff. 

http://www.c-styled.com/cgtalk/a1.jpg

http://www.c-styled.com/cgtalk/a2.jpg
When drawing this reference, I found out that my main problem is:

- proportions

- giving the body parts the right direction and shape, had lots of difficulity with drawing the arms, hands, feet and especially the legs were horrible to draw . .  had to redo a couple times and it still looks kinda wierd =/.

I'm happy that more people are joining :) It's always fun to see work from others, and ofcourse . . .  learn from each other :D

Well, im heading to bed now, have fun drawing everyone. 

ciao

Mu

12-01-2005, 11:55 PM

dreamykid - i see a lot of improvement, too.  really dynamic.  I practised the loomis mannequin, too.  Did you erase that from the drawing? 

kencho - i immediately recognised the hand plates from BH's book!  I think they are excellent.  What are you hanging out here for?:scream:

calvin_c - cool you are around.  With the help of master kimmel all shall be well...

Rebecca.  I am sort of stubborn.  I said to myself: "500 huh?  let's get it over with..." So I downloaded all of the references in the sketchathon thread and started 2 minute sketches. 

Somehow I wanted to grind out a "good hair day" for me.  I just did 26 of them :banghead:and will take my sketchbook with me.  I have a scanner at the office...gonna post them tomorrow.  need sleep now.  sentences lack subject.  this one even verb. 

*forehead plonks in desk*

Dreamy Kid

12-02-2005, 12:14 AM

hey mu, i did som practice with it, but when i actually draw it i dont redraw the manequin 100% ( including the skeleton and everything :rolleyes:hehe), but you probably can still see the torso part.  i find it useful to learn the conlusion of shape.  for the other part of the body like the arm for example, i usually just use cylinder and try to get the basic proportion right ^__^. ah i dont feel like good enough to tell you this thing, but i love to share things that had been helpful, at least for me.  cheers

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7769/skullsidesketchsmall9rf.th.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skullsidesketchsmall9rf.jpg)
Gorgnut, sorry, I missed your post!  Did you do the Skull for the Anatomy Review, or on your own?  At any rate, you've got a good start with the value studies here! 

Glad to have you on the thread and forum. :) 

Originally posted by me_aaeem:

1)what are the things that I need to concentrate while learning this way, is it to make exact resemblence?  anatomy/pose/gesture?  the essence of the work? 
For a short, 2-5-15 minute pose, you want to concentrate on the gesture and essence. 
For a longer pose, you want to do the above first, and try to sustain it through to the end of a finished piece.  You don't want to sacrifice the Gesture to the Anatomy.  You could put millions of rendered muscles on a figure, but if the Gesture is wrong, the whole drawing will be off.  Get the Gesture FIRST.  Always. :) 

2)from your experience which is a better approach?  doing master copy with various styles?  or try to assimilate the master's style? 
I think it's best to try to copy the master's style as closely as possible at first.  By 'at first' I mean for as long as you feel you are learning from that master's style ~ it could be months, or even years.  But I also feel it's good to take different approaches to learning how to draw simultaneously.  For example, I think it's a good idea to do rendered Anatomy studies of bones and muscles at the same time as doing Gestures etc. :) 

Kencho,

Verrry nice pieces!  Are you sure you are such a beginner?  While you could refine your linework a bit, these are quite lovely studies. :)  Great to see your post! 

Calvin_C,

Nice to see your work!  Keep at it...the key here is mileage. :) 

Dreamy Kid,
That is indeed a nice improvement! : wip: The opposing curves in your second piece are really quite beautiful...you're definitely headed in the right direction!  I look forward to seeing more results from your practice sessions. :) 

Sorry if I've missed anyone...you guys are all doing a good job!! 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

12-02-2005, 01:58 AM

weee finally you're back hehe, thanks for the review bec, I still need to work on my speed though:sad:, my drawing is so slow.  my 2 and 5 min drawing end up way more than that, sometimes i just get confused and have to stare for a while at the model & my drawing.  hopefully my speed will be getting faster as i do more practice. 

just noticed the snow at your avatar, thats the christmas spirit :)

Mu

12-02-2005, 09:48 AM

ah i dont feel like good enough to tell you this thing

nono, man - you needn't be good neither to tell someone what his drawings are missing nor to tell someone how you approach things. 

but i love to share things that had been helpful
exactly: it *is* helpful to see how others are working.  Keeps you wondering about what else you could change in order to improve. 

HEre's what became of my spite-driven 2min-solo-sketchathon of yesterday's night when I did not want to have a bad-draw-day - I had this timer software running and it was like a "gong" in the boxing ring for me...:scream: (graphite/little sketchbook - 2 mins each):

http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/3134/2minsketches6at.jpg

Kencho

12-02-2005, 10:39 AM

Mr. Mu, Rebecca: Yup, I'm quite noob indeed.  I think the other sketches I posted in the sketchathon can testify many of my problems.  My main problem with anatomy is to put the correct proportions and directions (I have a secondary problem about my muscles knowledge, so some forms are usually... wrong.  In the legs, for instance).  These books are really helping me indeed, but I've noticed that I don't advance without some kind of advice on my drawings (my friends just say "wow, you draw amazingly", though I can see *lots* of failures on them), and that's why I joined here.  Anyways if you think I shouldn't be here, I can open a different thread and work there :shrug:
But thanks a lot for your comments, I really really appreciate them ^__^

Rebeccak

12-02-2005, 12:14 PM

Dreamy Kid,

2 min.  drawings are tough, I'll try to point out some stuff very soon with respect to doing them. :)  You're doing great!  It takes a while to get the hang of.  Just keep practicing, and you will get faster! :) 

Mr. Mu,

LOL, you've had a good drawing day! : thumbsup: There are lots of nice sketches here, you are to be congratulated!  Hehe, maybe there aren't 500 yet, but you'll get there! :) 

Kencho,

You're welcome to post wherever you feel comfortable! :)  I like the group setting, frankly, it makes things easier for me.  And I think it ensures more interaction.  So cool ~ post away! :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-02-2005, 01:00 PM

Rebecca, I have two questions at the end of my post. 

but first of all:

Anyways if you think I shouldn't be here, I can open a different thread and work there :shrug:

No!  I mean, yea, if you are going to have your own thread, why not.  But stay in this one, too by all means.  I just wanted to express how very much un-noobian these Hogarth studies looked like! 

Hehe, maybe there aren't 500 yet, but you'll get there! 
yea, gimme another week or so...:wise:

:argh:

:scream:

thanks for the congrats.  This really turned out to be very instructive(?).  I had a problem with my gesture sketches which stems from the fact that loomis "told me" to construct poses via his skeletal framework and building the figure from within, while in your gesture lesson you make use of a much looser approach (peanut-shaped torso etc.) -  I was confused. 
You should keep in mind I am german (of turkish origin, but you know what I mean, don't you...;-)) and as such I am fond of rules.  Give me a set of rules and I can set to work. 

Now, give me a set of contradictive rules and I will sit down (not on the grass as it is verboten) and wait for a police officer to tell me what is allowed and what is not. 

But yesterday I just figured: "to hell with instructions!  I'll just draw what I see..."

QUESTION 1: What should I do for future gestures?  Just somehow do it?  Go for a skeletal framework?  Use The Peanut?  Or is the loomis-framework only used for things which can take more time? 

QUESTION 2: I reread the whole oppposing curves thread the other day(s) and it said there you were going to provide info on color theory, but I could not find it.  Is this cancelled? 

Dreamy Kid

12-02-2005, 01:26 PM

one thing i've been meaning to ask you bec,

when i draw a figure i always decide roughly the height of the figure using the head measurement system, basically measuring body parts according to the head, because i want to get a good proportion.  lets say, the chest is 1 head away from the chin, something like that.  sometimes i do this measurement very fast using my fingers.  I've been wondering if this method is bad in a long run, or is it common for beginner to do this?  thanks:lightbulb

Rebeccak

12-02-2005, 02:05 PM

Dreamy Kid,

Check out The Anatomy Thread of Redehlert, post #18:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297665&page=2&pp=15

which shows a proportional diagram using the measuring system of heads. 

There's really no 'bad' way of doing things ~ it's what works for you. :)  I recommend trying to copy this proportions chart freehand.  Really, learning proportions is a matter of doing a lot of drawings.  The 2 minute poses are great for this!  You can basically quickly represent the head with a circle, the major central axis of the body with a fluid line, and the limbs as offshoots of that central line.  Then you can begin to develop the torso as a peanut shape, with the upper torso being a sort of ellipse, and the lower torso being a shorter, more rounded ellipse.  I'll try to post some examples of this later, probably this weekend. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak

12-02-2005, 02:05 PM

Dreamy Kid,

Check out The Anatomy Thread of Redehlert, post #18:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297665&page=2&pp=15

which shows a proportional diagram using the measuring system of heads. 

There's really no 'bad' way of doing things ~ it's what works for you. :)  I recommend trying to copy this proportions chart freehand.  Really, learning proportions is a matter of doing a lot of drawings.  The 2 minute poses are great for this!  You can basically quickly represent the head with a circle, the major central axis of the body with a fluid line, and the limbs as offshoots of that central line.  Then you can begin to develop the torso as a peanut shape, with the upper torso being a sort of ellipse, and the lower torso being a shorter, more rounded ellipse.  I'll try to post some examples of this later, probably this weekend. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Kencho

12-02-2005, 02:58 PM

Mr. Mu, don't worry, I understood what you said ;) Just that maybe I thought I was a noob and you didn't consider me one :) Thanks for the comments everybody.  I'll open a new thread for myself (not leaving this one) as soon as I do my copies from Bridgman's :)

You're doing a great work, I feel really comfortable here surrounded by all this talent!:bounce:

Kencho

12-02-2005, 03:01 PM

PS: Rebeccak, could you make this thread sticky?  I think it would be really useful for anyone who comes to this forum, and maybe they don't notice if it's too low in the list:bounce:

Rebeccak

12-02-2005, 03:28 PM

Kencho,

My apologies, there are too many Stickies already ;) but if you guys keep posting, the thread should stay near the top of the list. :) 

LOL, sorry, didn't notice the 9 sticky ones, hahaha ^^; It's okay, was just an idea I had :)

Rebeccak

12-02-2005, 03:56 PM

No problem! :) 

Cheers,

~Rk

Mu

12-02-2005, 09:13 PM

hi,

just did another 30 2min-sketches.  Will try to borrow a scanner from a friend of mine tomorrow. 

Rebecca, I believe due to your overwhelming activities you missed two questions I had earlier today.  Don't mean to get on your nerves, but I'll include them in this post, too, for convenience. 

I had a problem with my gesture sketches which stems from the fact that loomis "told me" to construct poses via his skeletal framework and building the figure from within, while in your gesture lesson you make use of a much looser approach (peanut-shaped torso etc.) -  I was confused. 
You should keep in mind I am german (of turkish origin, but you know what I mean, don't you...;-)) and as such I am fond of rules.  Give me a set of rules and I can set to work. 

Now, give me a set of contradictive rules and I will sit down (not on the grass as it is verboten) and wait for a police officer to tell me what is allowed and what is not. 

But yesterday I just figured: "to hell with instructions!  I'll just draw what I see..."

QUESTION 1: What should I do for future gestures?  Just somehow do it?  Go for a skeletal framework?  Use The Peanut?  Or is the loomis-framework only used for things which can take more time? 

QUESTION 2: I reread the whole oppposing curves thread the other day(s) and it said there you were going to provide info on color theory, but I could not find it.  Is this cancelled? 

As I said: don't mean to shove - just thought you might not have seen them:)

Rebeccak

12-02-2005, 10:33 PM

Mr. Mu,

Sorry to have missed your post!  :D ~No, it's hard to get on my nerves by asking questions. :) 

Can't really answer in depth atm, but I find that bit about your German heritage dictating that you learn according to rules rather hilarious...:D ~trust me, I understand! :) 

Will try to post some thoughts re: Gesture in a bit.  With respect to a formal system, have you ever seen any of Glenn Vilppu's work?  He has a Drawing Manual which is linked in the Anatomy Books Sticky (I think) at the top of this forum.  It spells out pretty clearly the formal system that is looser than Loomis'. 

Will post more soon. :) 

In the meantime, follow your instincts ~ remember that there is not 'wrong' approach.  I think that learning how to draw is a matter of learning a number of different systems, and then combining them into your own (everyone filters information differently). 

I can understand how different systems can be confusing, however.  It's taken me years to synthesize the various approaches I was taught in school.  I think Lautrec, or someone of his era, said that it took him just as many years to forget what he had learned in school as it had taken him to learn it.  Believe me, drawing is no simple task!  But the process can be quite rewarding. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-02-2005, 11:01 PM

No, it's hard to get on my nerves by asking questions. :) 

that's cool cause I am rather talkative when it comes to learning:D

With respect to a formal system, have you ever seen any of Glenn Vilppu's work?  He has a Drawing Manual which is linked in the Anatomy Books Sticky (I think) at the top of this forum.  It spells out pretty clearly the formal system that is looser than Loomis'. 

ah, I will go and take a look

Will post more soon. :) 

always looking forward to it

In the meantime, follow your instincts ~ remember that there is not 'wrong' approach.  I think that learning how to draw is a matter of learning a number of different systems, and then combining them into your own (everyone filters information differently). 

*sighs* yeah, I need to let go of that "Look, did I do it the right way?"-approach.  So I think I'll just drink in everything til the approach that works best for me comes more or less natural...got you right mace rebecca? 

I think Lautrec, or someone of his era, said that it took him just as many years to forget what he had learned in school as it had taken him to learn it.  Believe me, drawing is no simple task!  But the process can be quite rewarding. 

yea, i often compare what people tell me here with what I had to go through in my process of becoming a guitar player.  It's been pretty much the same.  It's funny how these processes resemble each other though the artforms are so different.  And it's funnier still how I can't figure this out though I have been through all this in another attempt at learning craftmanship.  you never stop learning - that's fun! 

Thank you so much for everything you do here!:love:

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 12:16 AM

Hehe, thanks, Mr. Mu!  I enjoy it quite a lot. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

12-03-2005, 04:23 AM

i was curious and checked some of vilppu's work on his studio website, it looks really interesting :), i'm planning to purchase it soon. (  gosh i've been spending money on this bundle of graphic design magazine today, so might have to wait for a while hehe:) for me, It's always interesting to learn something from different point of view, even if it does cover the same thing :scream:.  I think thats how i've been learning all this time hahah.  I've been learning a lot from walt reed.  loomis and jack hamm, each one of them cover things from different point of view and different explanation. 

I was checking the cgworkshop page earlier , and noticed that becca taught one of the workshop.  ack i wish i had know this earlier :sad:, bec next time you have another workshop please let me know, i'm sooooooooo looking forward for it:)

yeay finally its weekend, you guys have a good weekend :thumbsup:

lunat1k

12-03-2005, 09:36 AM

Here are a few eye studies I did yesterday.  It took approximately 20-30 minutes for each one in Photoshop using Wacom Volito 2 tablet.  The first two were done with reference, the third one without. 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/eyes.jpg

The hardest part so far is those dark speckles in the iris, I just can't seem to get them right. 

lunat1k - I think all of these are good.  As concerns the iris, higher resolution of the pic and a spackled brush could solve the problem.  Also, be sure to check out Linda's eye-tutorial (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=227727)

kencho - I esp.  like the 2nd one!  Nice curves. 

Kencho

12-03-2005, 02:42 PM

Mr. Mu: Thanks a lot ^^

lunat1k: I prepared this quick mini-tutorial about how to draw (how I draw) iris and cornea.  Hope you find it useful:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/kencho/Iris_tutorial1.jpg

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 02:53 PM

Kencho,

That's brilliant, thanks for posting! : applause:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Kencho

12-03-2005, 02:55 PM

Much welcome :) One of the purposes of this thread is to share experience and help other beginners, right? ;) 

Forgot to mention, your 2-5-15 studies are looking good!  Keep doing those, I think they are the best exercise I can recommend to anyone learning how to draw. :)  Hmm, I don't recall seeing examples of your digital paintings here ~ though you are obviously familiar with digital painting from your eye tut.  Definitely post! : thumbsup:

Mr. Mu,

I haven't forgotten about the Gesture bit, but understand that it may take me a while as A) I just finished the CGWorkshop meaning that I have 2 months of cleaning to catch up on this weekend and B) My gesture drawings from my olden school days are at my folks' house, and I will have to retrieve them in order to take photos of my *quite embarrassing* school drawings. ;)  But I will be posting stuff intermittently this weekend.  In the meantime, I definitely encourage you to partake in the 15 MS using the 2-5-15 method which I think is working well for everyone! :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rk

HellBoy

12-03-2005, 03:34 PM

Hi Rebeccak, wow you're pushing to 6k posts :eek:

this is really awesome stuff, everytime I decide to study anatomy I get distracted by something els but now I'm dead serious, I'll defenetly participate :thumbsup:

Kencho

12-03-2005, 03:36 PM

Rebecca, thanks a lot for the support, you're really helping me a lot.  Do you think there is something in particular I should focus my training on?  I guess proportions aren't right, and will try training that for now, what do you think? 
About my digital paintings, well, I've played a lot with OpenCanvas in the past, and I'm getting used to Photoshop right now :) I posted a couple of them in the Sketchathon thread, and will keep posting some soon in some other threads, I guess.  You can see my best (that doesn't mean "good" :P) artworks in my gallery at deviantart http://kencho.deviantart.com/ if you're curios about it. 

Thanks again for the help you're offering here, I really appreciate it! 

lunat1k

12-03-2005, 03:53 PM

Mr. Mu, thanks for the pointers and for reminding me of Linda's tutorial. 
Kencho, thank you for the time you took to make this tutorial.  I'll see what I can pull out of it. 
Rebecca, thanks for the reply. 

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 03:55 PM

ASSIGNMENT 2: MASTER COPY MINI 2-5-10 SKETCHATHON

For your next assignment, I propose doing a 2-5-10 minute set of drawings from Master Drawings which I will post here.  You have 1 WEEK, and post your results here! :)  Whatever stage you are at is fine ~ if you are just testing your wacom, that is fine. 

What I recommend is the following: for each of the Master Drawing Reference images you choose to work from, do 3 timed poses.  Start from the beginning with each drawing ~ don't build on top of just one drawing, but do 3 SEPARATE drawings. 

So, for these Reference Master Drawings:

1.  Do a 2 minute drawing from the Master Drawing. 

Capture the ESSENCE.  Draw fast.  Get down the essential information.  Do not draw details at this stage! 

2.  Do a 5 minute drawing from the Master Drawing. 
Same deal.  Capture the most information you can.  Think gesture! 

3.  Do a 15 minute drawing from the Master Drawing. 
Again, the emphasis is on speed! 

Hehe, new name for you, I see! :)  Yep, I'm a poster! : scream: Hope to see your work here soon. :) 

Kencho,

You're welcome!  I checked out your other thread, and I have to say, I haven't figured out deviant art yet.  I could only see one of your images, a really beautiful pencil piece, but couldn't find your digital images ~ perhaps you could post them here? :) 

In terms of what to focus on, I think it's less a matter of particulars and more a matter of just getting in more practice.  I hope that Assignment 2 will be a great exercise for you and the other participants in this thread! : thumbsup:

Thanks for the new assignment, looks interesting and very useful.  By the way, 2-5-10 or 2-5-15? 

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 04:45 PM

Kencho,

Perfect, that gives me a much stronger sense of where you're at. :) 

I would say from looking at your digital pieces is that the main thing you need to work on is value and composition.  I think you would really enjoy working in the Open Figure Drawing Workshops, all of which are linked here:

There is some great work being posted in OFDW 008 which I would encourage everyone here to check out. 

Also, the main thing I see many of the digital artists on WIP forums needing to work on is ideas and themes.  I think that too many digital artists forget to look at the great traditional work of the past, and concentrate too much on the same themes we see over and over again ~ fairies, dragons, castles, monsters, etc.  I think that work which is more personal is more interesting. 

I would recommend everyone checking out the artists posted to this thread:

And I would also encourage everyone to visit their local art museums, to see the work that has laid the groundwork for all other artists. 

It's not to say that you have to become these artists or even to imitate them, but just remember that what we are striving to do digitally has been done fantastically traditionally.  It's always good to have a sense of perspective on things. :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-03-2005, 08:49 PM

1...2...3...
2/5/15

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5559/rubens12min6vu.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5033/rubens15min8ue.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6195/rubens115min7re.jpg

I think that too many digital artists forget to look at the great traditional work of the past, and concentrate too much on the same themes we see over and over again ~ fairies, dragons, castles, monsters, etc.  I think that work which is more personal is more interesting. 

I swear to god, I can't stand another babe with sword. 

On the other hand, there was an artist who took that cliche and deformed it: his pic showed a very old little hunchbacked hag with a giant sword as she was struggling to pull that dragonhead back home of the dragon she just killed. 

That was great - cliches can be fun when approached with irony.  I wish I could remember that pic and the artist...

CalvinChoy

12-03-2005, 08:51 PM

woaahh . . .  u guys been drawing a lot heh . . .  Hope i still got some time left this weekend to draw :( Work + school is driving me crazy :'(. 

Anyway, nice work guys/gals !! 

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 08:54 PM

Calvin_C,

Never fear, you can do these exercises at your own pace.  I recommend just completing each assignment within the space of one week.  That way, things don't get out of hand in terms of time. 

Any Assignment posted here should be done in one week ~ according to your schedule.  There is no real deadline for these, so post as you can.  That being said, try to be disciplined about posting within the time frame you set for yourself.  I know from my own experience that if I have a wavering deadline, I'm less inclined to finish! :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Kencho

12-03-2005, 09:09 PM

Mr. Mu, nice one! : applause:

Calvin_C, thanks :)
About the drawings, a good thing of using the 2-5-15 exercise is that you don't lose more than 25-30 minutes in each drawing (2+5+15 mins, plus some more to be prepared, check the result, check the timer...), so it's quite fast to do these.  And don't worry if the result is not perfect, as it's not the focus of these kind of exercises :)

Enjoy! 

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 09:21 PM

1...2...3...
2/5/15

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5559/rubens12min6vu.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5033/rubens15min8ue.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6195/rubens115min7re.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeccak
I think that too many digital artists forget to look at the great traditional work of the past, and concentrate too much on the same themes we see over and over again ~ fairies, dragons, castles, monsters, etc.  I think that work which is more personal is more interesting. 

I swear to god, I can't stand another babe with sword. 

On the other hand, there was an artist who took that cliche and deformed it: his pic showed a very old little hunchbacked hag with a giant sword as she was struggling to pull that dragonhead back home of the dragon she just killed. 

That was great - cliches can be fun when approached with irony.  I wish I could remember that pic and the artist...
Gah!!!  sorry Mr. Mu, I didn't see your earlier post! : eek: Heh, when I see a new post, I always forget that there could have been one before it...I'll just go stand in the corner.  :D

Seriously, this is some nice work!!  You're spot on ~ definitely do more sets of these.  I guarantee that if you continue to do these, your ability to see and respond to what you see will improve.  Keep up the good work! : thumbsup:

LOL ~ I would LOVE to see the piece you described.  If you find it, post it, and I will be sure to have a hearty guffaw that will brighten my day! : scream:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

lunat1k

12-03-2005, 09:21 PM

Here's another eye from me.  It's scaled to 50% from the original resolution. 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/eye01.jpg

Rebecca, I'll give a try at the assignments, but at the moment I find the pencil & paper combo more handy for gesture drawings.  Unfortunately I don't have a scanner, so I'm going to try with Photoshop.  That way I'll be able to show something. 

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 09:24 PM

lunat1k,

Nice!  Hey, I completely understand about the scanner thing.  Since the main purpose here is for you to improve, I would encourage you to do the traditional drawings intermittently for yourself, as well as the digital drawings, which you will be able to show.  Then, assuming you are a student, if you come across a scanner at school or something, you can always scan your work in later. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Kencho

12-03-2005, 09:44 PM

lunat1k, verrrry nice eye! : applause:

Another sketchathon from me :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/kencho/Rubens_1_2-5-10-sketchathon.jpg
I'm afraid I destroyed the lines in the last one because of my shading barrage :(

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 09:48 PM

Kencho,

Great to see!  I hope that you will do the remaining poses as well. : thumbsup: You know, the purpose of these is less to worry about individual pieces, than it is to just get the practice.  You will naturally get better over time, as I'm sure you realize. :) 

Looking forward to seeing your next set of drawings! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Kencho

12-03-2005, 09:55 PM

Rebecca,

Thanks, count with it!  Of course I'll do the next pieces, just that I'm about to go out with friends to take some beer ( ;P hahaha), and as I have some free time before going... I gave a try to the first one :D haha. 
And yes, you're right, I think I'm improving a lot faster.  I used to take measures for everything, everytime.  Now I just take a glance, try to catch the essence, and the rest of the drawing just follows :D This method is *great*!!  Thanks a lot :love:haha

Mu

12-03-2005, 10:02 PM

hey lunat1k: great eye again. 

I recommend including the environment of the eye (upper side up to the eyebrow, on the sides til nose plane and beginning temple), because you can use these "regions" of the face to enhance the spherical structure of the eyeball and the eye as a whole...

not that I could do it as good as you, however:D

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 10:10 PM

Hehe, you guys are killing me! : scream: I just noted Mr. Mu's "Reason for editing: spelling" and I nearly snarfed my soda...I can just hear that patented Mr. Mu sigh of resignation upon discovering a spelling mistake in his post :scream: ~ oh, you guys are great!  If I ever bothered to put something in that "Reason for editing" field, it would have to be simply "Korean Blonde moment". : scream:

Kencho,

Great to hear this method works for you!  Yeah, I think the measuring method is good for learning in a very long drawn out way, but if you just want to get in there and start drawing, as I always like to, I say just go for the goods and not worry about tedious details that frankly don't always make sense as you're drawing. ;) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-03-2005, 10:22 PM

I can just hear that patented Mr. Mu sigh of resignation upon discovering a spelling mistake in his post :scream:

yea I mean, I told you I am german.  Things have to be neat, tidy and clean.  Everything to its place... a.s.o. ( that assignment of yours cost me a full decision making process without a police officer near to tell me wether it's 2-5-10 or 2-5-15, because you know, in your assignment both figure triplets are given...:eek: )

Ah, I think I will just stick to what I can
*starts cleaning keyboard with a q-tip*

Rebeccak

12-03-2005, 10:27 PM

(that assignment of yours cost me a full decision making process without a police officer near to tell me wether it's 2-5-10 or 2-5-15, because you know, in your assignment both figure triplets are given...:eek: )
LMAO!  Do you know that I actually thought about that today?  About whether or not this would actually throw you off, and you would just sit there, befuddled? 

Hehe..*whether* *snarfs* :scream:

lunat1k

12-03-2005, 10:37 PM

Evevrybody thanks for the encouragement. 
I read the whole thread so far and decided to throw some light on my background as everybody else did. 
Since of this year I started Computer Systems and Technologies, a software (programming)/hardware oriented specialty (that means no art at all).  I gained interest in drawing this summer when I got my tablet.  I started (partially) with Rebecca's anatomy threads and after a while I kind of dropped it... Recently I've started doodling at the breaks at university and at home when I have time to spare.  Generaly I'm interested in portraits by I also want to improve my drawing skills, or I sholuld say to build them up from the ground.  I forgot to mention that I'm also into 3d, but I decided that if I learn to draw it will help me with my 3d.  Since I find modeling really hard and learning anatomy (I hope) will make a big difference. 
I really appreciate the help everybody's giving to me and I'll try to return the favor, although I don't feel confident enough to give pointers yet.  This thread is already helpinig me a lot.  Thanks again. 

Rebecca, I have a friend who has a scanner so I'll see what I can do to scan my most recent drawings (mainly studies of my own hands, eye and faces from photographs and anatomy books, particularly: Bames - Human Anatomy). 

Great to hear about your background! :)  I'm happy you're back following the Anatomy Reviews.  There are lots of people I wonder what happened to. :) 

Great news about the scanner!  Looking forward to seeing your traditional pieces as well. :) 

I very much agree that 2D will do nothing but help your 3D abilities.  There are countless models of people and creatures that I see and think would benefit from even just a smidge of anatomy and 2D knowledge. 

Cheers,

~Rk

Mu

12-03-2005, 10:45 PM

LMAO!  Do you know that I actually thought about that today?  About whether or not this would actually throw you off, and you would just sit there, befuddled? 

hope you enjoyed your mischief.  I did a very german thing to solve the problem: I just followed a previous order.  Stick to what you know... But I could not help feeling illegal all the way:scream:

although I don't feel confident enough to give pointers yet. 

no man, don't you say that.  you should look at the crap I'd post when I tried to draw an eye.  In fact I am really looking forward to what a full-blown face will look like from you. 

Dreamy Kid

12-03-2005, 10:56 PM

great work guys, keep em coming.  I noticed that most of you have a 3d background :thumbsup:, I'm working on 3d field and recenly realized the importance of traditional skill.  just want to share a bit, i was having dificulties with a model that i built, i have no understanding of human anatomy -at all- back then, and i gave it up because i thought how in the world should i built all that muscles, it's impossible.  now that i get a better understanding of human anatomy, and learn how to draw - i get back to my project and everything start to make sense:).  in my humble opinion, if you can draw it, it's not hard to make the model.  thats my 2 cent hehehe :scream:.  great work guys, i'm still working on mine - been out all day with my friends :rolleyes:.  i think i should wake up early tomorrow and start drawing:)

I'm still working on my speed, becca, do you have any in depth input or tips for 2 min drawing.  i have no problem with 15 min , but 2 min ......ack:scream:.  thanks :)

if i have some free time , i'll try to scan and put together some things that might be useful to build a figure ( at least it has been for me )and post it, loomis's manequin, walt reed's manequin, - sorry i dont have vilppu's book. 

cheers

HellBoy

12-03-2005, 11:12 PM

here's mine

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/mwarsame/beginnerslounge1.jpg

Kencho, I was after a face like that :sad:
this anatomy work is really getting interested.  now I can't wait to do the other poses

I tried to do the pose Mr. Mu did, the muscle guy but failed, now I have unfinished business :)

Kencho

12-04-2005, 10:22 AM

Dreamy kid, Hellboy,

as Rebecca said, try to find the essence.  I've found extremely useful to skip as much details as you can.  Doing the 2 min drawing helps a lot to skip those details (or you won't get a "complete" drawing finished in that time).  Something that helps me much is to unfocus/blur (?)  the sight when looking at the pic so you only see the rough shapes.  The silhouette, the main lines... all them drawn using simple curves and straight lines.  For instance, the lady of Ruben's study has 3 *main* lines I can see at first when unfocusing my sight.  If you try, you'll notice that the shape can be enveloped inside of an upper-right quarter of circle :) Use that kind of information in your advantage :thumbsup:

Now I'll try the next one :D

Kencho

12-04-2005, 11:10 AM

Next one :)

I drew it in the back of the Rubens' study exercise, as you can see in this picture :scream:
I'm afraid I did something wrong while doing this exercise: Thinking in doing it correctly :( but I'm not disappointed with it at all :/

I'm afraid I did something wrong while doing this exercise: Thinking in doing it correctly :( but I'm not disappointed with it at all :/

what do you mean by that?:shrug:

Kencho

12-04-2005, 12:57 PM

Thanks :)

Yup, I focused too much in the details and such, instead of visualizing only the shape, movement...

Mu

12-04-2005, 01:03 PM

Ah, I see - yea one always wants to do more details.  For that matter I think the 5min drawing is stronger than the 10min one. 

Margie

12-04-2005, 01:10 PM

In the life drawing classes I took, they made us do the 2 minute gesture drawings with a large brush or a thick stick of charcoal.  It's akward in the beginning, but it helps a great deal concentrating on the essential lines, simply because it's impossible to draw details. 
Something like this (not that this is the perfect example of a gesture drawing, but you get the idea, I hope). 

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/gesturediscus.jpg

Rebeccak

12-04-2005, 02:53 PM

Hi guys,

I know that the issue of different approaches to take in Drawing can be confusing. 

I have just posted some comments attempting to address these questions in the Anatomy Thread of Erich Schreiner, here:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=297560&page=3

I hope this helps to clarify how I think about combining various approaches when learning how to draw.  I think of this as "Synthesizing" various drawing methods, and it is not an easy process ~ it does take hard work.  And it is not a process that takes place "after" you've learned different approaches to drawing ~ it takes place during your learning process. 

At any rate, check out Erich's thread (both for the work there and for the thoughts) and I hope that they prove useful. :) 

Will try to post something later tonight...will be out most of today. :)  Do the best you can ~ the 2 minute drawings are hardest at first, but will, with practice, become your favorite. :)  Jump in ~ as the Nike logo goes, "Just do it!" :) 

HellBoy,

I think the key here is to simplify.  You can represent the head a circle, and the torso (ribcage/pelvis) as a peanut shape.  I'll post drawings later, I can't atm as I'm out the door shortly. :) 

Kencho,

Nice work!  Keep working ~ the key is to do as many of these as you can tolerate.  I like the 5 and 10 min.  poses.  Keep at 'em! 

That last set looks good!  Let's see a few more! :) 

Margie,

Great to see you here, and great suggestion!  I agree, using difficult materials often helps to see the big picture when drawing. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

12-05-2005, 02:56 AM

here comes another gesture drawing from exercise 1, sorry for the slow post from me- work and college been crazy this week.  i think i'll do another 1 or 2 gesture drawing for exercise 1 then i'll move to the second one.  anyway, great reference picture there bec & thanks for the input :thumbsup:

I woke up early today and did some head study from hogart's dynamic anatomy book, it was interesting - i love how he break things apart into simple geometric shape , interesting
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/5383/female5tc.jpg

Rebeccak

12-05-2005, 03:00 AM

Dreamy Kid,

Perfect!  You're definitely on the right track with these. : thumbsup: You have a nice sense of rhythm and gesture going in these ~ do many more, and you will have the method down pat. :) 

The one thing I notice is that you tend to make the head a bit small for the body.  Double~check yourself in Photoshop by overlaying the original on top of your version, scaling them to size, and seeing where you're off.  This will help you to make judgements in future freehand drawings. :) 

Looking forward to seeing more of your work. :) 

Cheers,

~Rk

Dreamy Kid

12-05-2005, 03:10 AM

thanks for the input bec, thats why i need other people to spot my mistakes :scream:, it's hard for me since my own eyes are sometimes getting comfortable with it.  i will surely keep them in mind.... it's sleepy time for me now, i'm beat - been out all day.  have a good evening bec:)

Rebeccak

12-05-2005, 03:19 AM

No prob. ;)  Night. :) 

CalvinChoy

12-05-2005, 12:39 PM

Hey all,

I'm at campus again, got some drawings on paper here, will scan them in when im back home in the weekend.  I was using the images for assignment 2 for gesture drawing, I find it difficult to draw the gesture for those images.  Since i followed vilppu dvd's, im used to draw the gesture in a form of a flow rather then the real contour.  But I find it hard to catch the flow/movement of the drawing, especially the twist of the body. 

Anyone got some tips on how to draw the twist in the body of the drawings in rubens?  using primitive lines and shapes ? 

anyway, I see that ur guys improve pretty fast (Y) keep it up ! 

ciao

Dreamy Kid

12-05-2005, 02:21 PM

hi calvin, which part of the dvd that you bought?  i was thinking to purchase the dvds but noticed that each chapter sold seperately - what do you think of the dvd? 
i guess i'll just purchase the book firts, since everything is in them, and try one of the dvd

Rebeccak

12-05-2005, 02:45 PM

Calvin_C,

Hey there, with these poses, though they look much more complex than your 'typical' pose, really have as their core structure the same basic simple components as any pose ~ it's part of the reason why I chose to assign these poses, to get you guys to see the simple behind the apparently complex. 

Any pose can be reduced in terms of simple shapes.  Vilppu's method describes this in depth ~ the combined upper and lower torso (rib cage and pelvis) can be described as a peanut shape, or the combination of two spheres or balls.  Think of these balls as made of plastic or bendable material.  Remove all of the exterior forms from any complex figure, such as the drawings of Rubens which we are copying, and you will find this basic, two~sphere combination shape. 

As practice, trace Rubens' drawings to find these simplified forms.  You will start to see this simplified form in every figure you draw! 

Check out Erich Schreiner's Anatomy Thread, where I posted some examples of Vilppu's work:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2879260&postcount=29

Hope this helps! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak

12-05-2005, 02:48 PM

Dreamy Kid,

I would recommend getting the book (Vilppu Drawing Manual) before investing in each of the DVDs.  I saw that that is how he sells them, and rather disagree with that approach.  But the book is independent of the DVD's, and contains a lot of information which should, I think, be sufficient. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

lunat1k

12-05-2005, 04:31 PM

Hi again. 
I see everybody's pushing the thread forward :).  I've managed to scan my traditional studies, so here they are:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/traditional/01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/traditional/02.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/traditional/03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/traditional/04.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/traditional/05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/traditional/06.jpg
Some is done from reference (all faces, few ot the eyes...), other from life (for expample: all finger/hand/whatever studies)

At the moment I'm thinking of an attempt at a portrait.  After I give it a go, I'll start with exercise 1.  It looks fun, although I'm not into gesture drawings. 

Mr. Mu, yeah I guess you're kind of right, but soon you'll see what a flop I'm at figure drawing and pretty much everything else.  Guess we'll have to help each other (that goes to everybody).  I had in mind doing a portrait before you mentioned it, so I'll try harder not to disappoint ;). 

Rebeccak

12-05-2005, 04:43 PM

lunat1k,

Good to see your drawings, and I look forward to seeing your work for Exercise 1!  I think that Gesture Drawings are a key ingredient in learning how to draw, so do not overlook their usefulness! :)  In fact, I think that Gesture drawing is sometimes even more useful in the process of learning how to draw than is doing extended / long studies.  Really, a combination is necessary to learn how to draw the figure. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

lunat1k

12-05-2005, 10:52 PM

I've decided to postpone the portrait and came up with this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/gesture01.jpg

As with all of my previous attempts one major problem I find is the hands.  Maybe I'll try to start using cylinders for the arms... I really don't know what to do with those 15 minutes.  But I must admit it's getting addictive.  Tomorrow I'll try some more. 

Mu

12-05-2005, 10:57 PM

lunat1k - wonderful gesture sketches, nice flow of lines:applause:

Kencho

12-05-2005, 11:02 PM

lunat1k, those look great!! : thumbsup::applause:

I guess you're starting with the tablet, right?  Try doing more fluent lines, instead of trying to do them right at the first one.  Think that these are sketches, so paint over the previous lines, and erase the undesired lines later.  Also, maybe you're focusing too much in doing the right lines (look at the right tight in the 5 minutes sketch), but they look impressive (far better than mine!).  Don't worry about the hands, as they're details after all.  The way you drew them in these sketches is perfect in my honest opinion :thumbsup:

Keep up the good work! : scream:

Rebecca, I found Hogarth's "Drawing dynamic anatomy" book at the library today :bounce: :D

Dreamy Kid

12-06-2005, 12:30 AM

nice flow luna :beer:

Kencho, glad you find the book - i'm sure it will be useful for you as it has been for me - i actually just did the head study practice from the book this morning :cool:, the book has been so useful during my 3d anatomy modelling process, enjoy :wip:

Rebeccak

12-06-2005, 12:56 AM

lunat1k,

WOW, good work!  Glad to hear it's getting addictive...you'll definitely improve by doing these consistently. : thumbsup: I agree that it's less important to get the details of the hands and things than just the overall flow as you have done so well here.  Keep going, you're definitely on the right track! : thumbsup:

Kencho,

That's great!  Now we expect to see some studies! : wavey:

Dreamy Kid,

You ought to post some of your 3D stuff here as well! :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Dreamy Kid

12-06-2005, 04:13 AM

hehe i'm still working on my website bec, i'll dump all my works there once i'm done ( almost done ), i dont have the confidence to show my works though..but oh well, this is for learning purpose haha i think it might be helpful for you if you see what i've done :scream:

Rebeccak

12-06-2005, 04:25 AM

Hey, can't wait! : thumbsup: Looking forward to seeing your work...though if you're going to put your work onto a website where anyone can see it, why be shy about posting to a forum where a group of helpful individuals might see it? :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Kopprsnake

12-06-2005, 01:21 PM

Good work from all those who have posted.  This thread has given me the motivation to continue drawing now that my art class has finished for xmas.  Looking at other people's work and reading the comments, critiques and advice is a great way to learn. 

Since my last post I have been working on the first assignment and have found it a useful exercise.  I'm still learning the basics, but these extra exercises provide the opportunity to do something different and perhaps more expressive.  The results also gave me a clearer indication of what level my drawing skills are at. 

Hope you don't mind too much, but I have provided links to the drawings for the first assignment.  I was a little un-economical with my paper usage until the last drawing. 

Kencho, you're so right.  I really was trying to nail the lines as close as possible.  I agree with you on the hand issue.  Thanks for the feedback. 

Rebecca, thanks :).  I think I'm starting to realise how these gestures can help a lot. 

Kopprsnake, those are really nice.  My favorite is the 2 min one from your last link. 

fredlovebot

12-06-2005, 04:54 PM

Although this isn't a part of any assignment I though I show it. ( god, I have to do them now, final tests in Physics and Mathemathics are crawling up my back :( )

Also posted in the 15 min sketchathon. 
Im quite happy how this one turned out, I feel like I improved somewhat (compare to this one http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/5319/workshop2small5bt.jpg which took over 15 min)
Kinda feel like im starting to loosen up a bit and have more control over my lines and seeing forms much clearer now :thumbsup:
http://files.upl.silentwhisper.net/upload7/sculpture2.jpg

Dreamy Kid

12-06-2005, 05:37 PM

gorg, i agree with you, i can totally see that you've improved alot:thumbsup: nice job

Mu

12-06-2005, 05:38 PM

Kinda feel like im starting to loosen up a bit and have more control over my lines and seeing forms much clearer now

and indeed you are - big improvement:thumbsup:

if you should ever feel like taking this further you should increase the size of the chest and the head in relation to the rest of the torso and legs

Mu

12-06-2005, 05:52 PM

Everyone,

as we all share the problem of focusing on essence instead of details I would like to share a method I use to capture the essence real quick. 

If you, rebecca, think this is nonsense, feel free to edit my post or make me do it in public as a penalty:D

The plan is to jot down the line(s) of action...

What does that mean? 

Well it is easier to show than to explain. 

Simple, simpler, lines of action.  This is the level of detail of stickmen.  Afterwards you can go and use these guide lines to add detail and even correct proportions as you go. 

hope you find that useful:

http://www.ndirect.co.uk/%7Echrisnash/images/dance/ella.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/51/loaexample3zj.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2047/loaexample20sb.jpg

fredlovebot

12-06-2005, 06:01 PM

Thanks Mr. Mu and Dreamy Kid!  You keep me going! : wip:

Mr. Mu: Going to try that method as a way to put down the "extreme" points of the figure really quick and correct.  Maybe an update later tonight ;)

Mr. Mu, thanks for your tip on image links, I'll give it a whirl.  Your lines of action tip is also very helpful. 

gorgnut, nice work on your sketchathon pose, I particularly like the tonal work. 

lunat1k, I'm in agreement with rebecca, your line work is very smooth and flowing. 

Mu

12-07-2005, 02:01 PM

hi there,

addendum from last week friday:

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/7792/quickgesturesii8ng.jpg

Rebeccak

12-07-2005, 02:02 PM

Mr. Mu,

LOL, I like the personal touch! : scream: Good to see you post these...and you are doing better! : thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rk

lunat1k

12-07-2005, 07:09 PM

A master copy:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/gesture05.jpg

The green stroke was added after i finished the 7 min one. 
I think I'll start doing 2-5-10, 15 mins is too much for me. 

Dreamy Kid

12-08-2005, 12:59 AM

hey lunatik, i lvoe your line in the gesture drawing :), nice style, sort of having a nice cartoony feel hehe.  do you have any drawing you've done in the past?  feel free to post them if you dont mind, we'd always love to see other people's works.  cheers

BBJ-83

12-08-2005, 01:06 AM

Hey guys! 

This is my first post in this forum.  I think the beginner's lounge is a great thing.  I borrowed a Wacom tablet from a friend a few days ago and got hooked to digital painting.  I did 3 or 4 paintings to get accustomed to this new method an now here is my first serious work:

http://web.inf.tu-dresden.de/%7Es0736231/temp/001.jpg

Kami Z

12-08-2005, 07:35 AM

Hi!  I am Kami.  I am a new artist trying to learn both traditional and digital art.  I want to start off by learning human anatomy.  My work will be posted soon.  This forum is quite big and confusing to me, I am still trying to get use to the system.  If I did anything wrong please tell me and I will correct myself right away.  Nice to meet you guys. 

lunat1k

12-08-2005, 09:43 AM

Dreamy Kid, thanks.  I guess you're on the right track about my cartoony style ;).  Here's some old stuff from me...

early november:
-caricatures of a couple from my group at uni
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/evil_gal_concept.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/pimp_wip3.jpg

-my second attempt at doing something with colour:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/ladybird_wip2.jpg

late september-november
-doodles with the girl from my avatar:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/doodles.jpg

june
-again for the dsf (first try with colour):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/BobbyChiusSubwaySketchGroupsADS.jpg

bermuda_boy_jimbo, that's really nice!  Welcome aboard :)

Kami, glad you'll be joining us.  Can't wait to see your drawings :)

CalvinChoy

12-08-2005, 11:48 AM

Hey dreamykid,

sorry for the late reply, been busy with school.  Anyway, I bought the Basic drawing dvd's from vilppu ( gesture, spheres, box forms, and combination of box and spheres).  Although the dvd's are very hand, because you can see how vilppu use the techniques used, I still recommend you to get the book first, dvd's sometimes still go to fast, and you have to rewind it back if it was going to fast, with book u can take ur time. 

Rebeccak,

thnx for the advise, I'm still trying to get the flow of the drawings, instead of looking at the lovely contours of the final drawing hehe.  Some more drawing will help me out sooner or later :p
Will post my work later this weekend, to get some comment on what still went wrong :).  Thnx in advance. 

have fun drawing everybody :) kepe up the good work. 

ciao

Dreamy Kid

12-09-2005, 12:30 AM

I did some head study from the dynamic anatomy book and some other book ( mainly about the major mass of the face and eyes measurement system), for a few hours ,,,,,just to realize how bad i am with perspective, also i have problems drawing anything symmetric.  kind of frustrating :sad:*hit my self.  think about it, I'm always have a hard time drawing something symmetric ( especially face, have a hard time to draw the left side and the righ side of the face symmetrically balance ) >__< .  bec, i'll post one more gesture drawing from the first exercise tomorrow then move on to the second exercise, T__T so many things to learn.  the first 500 drawings just to get the bad ones out right? : scream:

Hi everyone.  I haven't visited CGTalk in a while and I just discovered this new forum.  I think its a great idea to have a thread devoted to beginners and since I'm really terrible at figure drawing I thougt I'd give it a go.  I picked an image from the sketchathon ref thread.  Is there anywhere else you guys would recommend to get reference images from? 

Mu

12-09-2005, 09:02 AM

welcome jtm - you can always do the assignment #2 with the references given! 

Rebeccak

12-09-2005, 11:37 PM

You guys are doing some good work here, and I apologize for not being able to post much during the week ~

I'd just like to point out that the following thread might be useful to those of you who are new to this thread and to the Anatomy Forum:

This thread has links to threads on the Anatomy Forum that are listed according to Beginner and Intermediate / Advanced ~ they are also listed according to area of interest, for ex, 3D:

no need to say sorry bec, you've been a great help for us.  million thanks for your dedication helping us :love: no rush :thumbsup:

maya-3d

12-10-2005, 09:40 PM

hi im abdullah here is my sketch i started drawing 3 weeks ago :D

im only 14 :shrug: such a noob
only one school pencil used 45 minutes :shrug:

Rebeccak

12-10-2005, 09:42 PM

Welcome aboard, abdullah! :)  Wow, only 14, that is quite an impressive drawing!  Are you currently taking art in school?  Was this done for a class? :) 

Glad to have you on the forum! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

maya-3d

12-10-2005, 09:43 PM

nah im just learning over the net with you guys :thumbsup:

Rebeccak

12-10-2005, 09:46 PM

That's great!  Looking forward to your continued participation. :)  Feel free to try some of the Exercises posted at the beginning of this thread.  Definitely useful exercises! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak

12-12-2005, 07:36 AM

ASSIGNMENT 3: MASTER COPY MINI 2-5-10 SKETCHATHON

For your next assignment, I propose doing a 2-5-10 minute set of drawings from Master Drawings which I will post here.  You have 1 WEEK, and post your results here! :)  Whatever stage you are at is fine ~ if you are just testing your wacom, that is fine. 

What I recommend is the following: for each of the Master Drawing Reference images you choose to work from, do 3 timed poses.  Start from the beginning with each drawing ~ don't build on top of just one drawing, but do 3 SEPARATE drawings. 

So, for these Reference Master Drawings:

1.  Do a 2 minute drawing from the Master Drawing. 

Capture the ESSENCE.  Draw fast.  Get down the essential information.  Do not draw details at this stage! 

2.  Do a 5 minute drawing from the Master Drawing. 
Same deal.  Capture the most information you can.  Think gesture! 

3.  Do a 15 minute drawing from the Master Drawing. 
Again, the emphasis is on speed! 

For those of you who wish to participate in the 15 Minute Sketchathon (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=295498), but are too shy to post in that thread, why not use the daily References which are posted here:

Hello everybody sorry for the late entry, but here goes - I think today is a bad drawing day for me, never get anything right really >__>. ... please pardon the bad drawing:sad: I'll move on to the exercise 2 and do some drawing from the reference, will post them soon.  gotta ctach up :D

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8939/saucer0vr.jpg

:love:Becca, the beginner's sketchatoon is such a good idea - i was actually thinking about the same thing last night and was about to ask you hehe

Rebeccak

12-12-2005, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by Dreamy Kid: Hello everybody sorry for the late entry, but here goes - I think today is a bad drawing day for me, never get anything right really >__>. ... please pardon the bad drawing:sad: I'll move on to the exercise 2 and do some drawing from the reference, will post them soon.  gotta ctach up :D

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8939/saucer0vr.jpg

Not bad at all!  I think the head is a bit small in the second image.  Apart from that, you have some nice rhythm and opposing curves, and a nice touch! : thumbsup: Don't be too hard on yourself, particularly when you are starting out. :) 
:love:Becca, the beginner's sketchatoon is such a good idea - i was actually thinking about the same thing last night and was about to ask you hehe
That's great!  I should have thought of it before...but you guys should feel free to make suggestions, this is your thread ~ let me know the direction you would like to go in, and I am happy to accomodate that. :) 

I also did the Raphael one (first) with ballpoint pen, it turned out nice... I guess...
lunat1k,

My apologies, I missed your post!  As usual, you have a nice line quality to these ~ Maybe you might try experimenting with line width?  Perhaps even using a slightly thicker brush?  Just a suggestion. :)  You're doing a good job of getting just the essence ~ keep going! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

BBJ-83

12-12-2005, 11:08 PM

Hello,

ich have done the 2nd assignment.  I needed a little change during my work;-) Here are the results.  A 2,5,7, and a 15 min.  sketch. 

http://web.inf.tu-dresden.de/%7Es0736231/temp/rubens%28web%29.jpg

DanielNasc

12-15-2005, 06:30 AM

Hi everyone, I've seen this thread recently and got interested in doing the assignments, but I'm not quite sure if I got the right meaning of "gesture" here (the dictionary didn't help much).  I think I understand what the basic goal is, but maybe I'm missing something, so, could anyone tell me what do you mean by "gestures"?:curious:

Rebeccak

12-15-2005, 06:33 AM

DanielNasc,

Welcome aboard! :) 

To answer your question (which is a great one, by the way) :) I Googled Gesture Drawing and came up with the following article:

http://www.ndoylefineart.com/gesture3.html

Feel free to check that out, and then post any questions here you may have! 

Looking forward to your posts! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak

12-15-2005, 08:53 AM

Guys / Gals, :)

Check out this really useful thread on the Anatomy Forum when you get the chance:

Kirt Stanke is a WIP Forum leader a nice guy who has posted a great starting exercise! 

The link the the "Simple theories" thread has also been posted at the beginning of this thread. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

DanielNasc

12-15-2005, 02:09 PM

Oh, now I get it!Thanks Rebeccak, the article is great!:thumbsup:
It's a very interesting concept, don't you think that link could be copied to the first post? ( it's still good reference material after all :) )
Gonna put some effort on my sketches this week. 

Rebeccak

12-15-2005, 02:55 PM

DanielNasc,

Awesome, great to hear that the article was helpful! :) 

I did add the link to the first post, and reorganized it a little bit to make things easier to find. :) 

Looking forward to seeing your sketches! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-15-2005, 03:21 PM

Hi Rebecca,

thank you for the link to the article on gestures! 

This is actually a good chance for me to repost a question I brought up in the sketchathon.  It was quickly swept away due to the incredible speed there. 

Is it possible/advisable to gesture sketch parts of the body?  Can you gesture sketch the head?!  Hands?  How do you do this?  Is there a method you have for simplifying an apporach to head or hand gestures? 

thanks for reading

Rebeccak

12-15-2005, 03:33 PM

Mr. Mu,

Thanks for the question, it's a good one! :) 

Here is another article I found on Gesture Drawing: (I'll add it to the first post as well)

http://drawsketch.about.com/library/weekly/aa052003a.htm

It doesn't exactly address the question of whether or not you should do gesture drawings for individual parts of the body, but I absolutely think that you can, and should.  I basically think that the basis for ANY good drawing is a good gesture.  The Gesture captures the essential LIFE and MOVEMENT of the pose, and that principle applies to the individual parts of the body in the same way that it applies to the body as a whole. 

Hope this helps. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

lil_fairy

12-17-2005, 12:45 PM

Hello everyone, I am Elisa.  I am not sure if this is the place but I don't think I should start a new thread when there is already one for beginners.  I am super new to the whole art scene, concentrated on all the science and technical subject from young.  I always had an interest but never the chance to learn art, so with my first paycheck I bought a wacom tablet a week ago.  And this is my first 2 pieces of work

The old man is me trying to do this tutorial http://www.gfxartist.com/features/tutorials/14033
it is obviously far from done, and there is 1001 things wrong with it.  But I can't do it !  I can't make the colours blend ( i tried just add water, and a brush with resat to 0%), I have no idea what brush to use to make those lines, when I use a detail brush of size 2 pixels, the lines are so thin and hard, if I go to a bigger size the lines are too thick ?  In the tutorial, the man magically transformed to look like the photograph, something I simply couldn't acheive.  And his eyes look very wrong, so does his whole face....

Can anyone point me in the right direction?  Should I start with something simpler?  How do I do those highlights, that don't seem to be entirely blended, but are not standing out like a sore thumb.  I tried using airbrush, didn't work, so I blended it, and it lost the 'highlight' effect. 

I will try the assignments tonight hopefully I will have more luck with it. 

By the way I am using painter IX, so any tips or pointers to doing details, blending in painter? 

Thanks for reading ! 

Mu

12-17-2005, 02:57 PM

Hi and welcome,

Can't comment on the manga stuff, as I am not into this.  But the man is already quite nice. 

In the tutorial, the man magically transformed to look like the photograph, something I simply couldn't acheive. 

Well that's because it wasn't magic. :)  There's much in that tutorial which is pretty advanced.  If you find Ron Lemen helpful why not start with his lesson on values in basic forms? ( http://www.anticz.com/drawing1.htm) Everything we see is made up of basic forms and you can practise shading and seeing light values.  That tut helped me understand mind the egdes and light/shadow areas on various shapes in the face and body. 

Do greyscale pictures first, before tackling colour. 

I tried fully-fledged coloured pics, too, before I even knew how to keep an eye on values.  I got this tip from Rebeccak in one of the Open Figure Drawing Workshops and it really changed the way I look at the subjects I want to draw and paint. 
- Black for shadows, grey for midtones, white for highlights. 
- Blending to create appropirate edges (hard in bright light areas, soft in the shadows, for example) There's a nice rather application independant article on blending (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=253711) in the tutorial section of CGTalk. 

and finally: do gesture sketches!  try the assignments as you said!  They are a great help to do away with the frustration of trying to do things perfectly.  Keep posting.  You have come to the right place! 

And you just wait til rebecca gets hold of you!:scream: You will go off like a rocket...

Rebeccak

12-17-2005, 03:14 PM

Mr. Mu,

Fantastic comments! : thumbsup:

lil_fairy,

Welcome aboard! :)  I am glad to have you join us.  One thing I would ask is that you copy and paste the URL of each of your images (one at a time, obviously) into the little yellow sun / mountain icon in the Edit Post Text Editor.  That way we can see your images, and not links. :) 

I have worked up a little review of your piece based on the fantastic tutorial which you referenced:

The classic beginner's mistake is to think that eyes are high up in the face.  This is not so ~ EYES FALL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FACE. 

The other thing to consider is the various widths of the face.  If you'll notice in your image, there is very little width (less than the width of the eye) between the outer corners of either eye and the sides of the head.  Observe how in the Reference photo and in Ron's drawing, there is much more width between the outer corner of the eyes and the sides of the head. 

Also note the width of the nose.  I think in your image, the nose is disproportionately wide relative to the other features of the face. 

Constructing facial features is a matter of determing relative heighths, widths, and sizes of the individual features of the face.  It takes practice ~ be patient with yourself, and do practice. 

Here is another thread on this Forum which I think you might find quite helpful: :)

BEGINNERS' Drawing Workshop - Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain - With Margie (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=269026)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=269026

I also recommend getting at least one or two books on Anatomy or Drawing.  I really recommend Burne Hogarth's "Dynamic Anatomy" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0823015521/002-4359211-5622431?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance). 

I think Mr. Mu provided the link to the Blending Tutorial, which is a great one ~ definitely check it out! :) 

Also, take a look at the shading tutorial, which starts in Post #3 of this thread:

Check out these links at your leisure, and let us know if they are helpful. :) 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

lil_fairy

12-17-2005, 03:44 PM

Wow those comments and especially the pictorial review was very very enlightening.  Thank you so very mcuh!  I immediately see my flaws.  And yes I think i should not start with colors first.... actually I have seen the blending thread/tutorial, I did try it out too.  It was around erm 70% successful?  I think I will try to start from the basics first for now.  I did a few sketches from the assignments (it was fun!)  when I was supposed to be working..... these days I keep surfing cgtalk rather than working.  I think I will get fired soon...

By the way, if you haven't noticed, I have absolutely 0% background in art.  I have no idea about colors, I am a programmer, and when I had to do a website I picked the worse colors ever that even I couldn't stand it, I went to copy the colors from the sony website... I like cute things but can never draw my own...I really hope hope wish that one day I can.  If a miracle should happen and one fine day (years later) I can produce decent art, I will feel that I finally achieved something that I can be proud of.  I used to be very satisfied being able to program my own applications in school, but now I am working, I found that I am usually modifying other people's work.  Not satisfying at all....

ok so these are what I just did, I did over shoot the 2min limit by a little... :( so I think that was cheating
I will trying to colour (in one colour) after I do the 10 mins one of the 2nd assg.  Also i will try get the 'Dynamic Anatomy', hopefully tomorrow?  I do not have a scanner, so all of these are done on my wacom. 

I did what you told me to, pasting the url in the little icon.  Hope it doesn't come out too big. 

Dreamy Kid

12-17-2005, 06:17 PM

howdyyyhhoo guys, how's everyone doing.  sorry havent been here in the past few days, i was working on this event guide book design project and ufortunately one of the software doesnt work in my computer, so i have to stay in my friend's house for 3 days.  I've just got back home last night and watched King Kong ( awesome movie ), havent done any drawing at all this week :sad: T__T I miss my pencil :rolleyes:. 

I'm happy to see more and more people join this thread yeay, welcome aboard

thanks for the link becca, i dont event know that about.com have pages dedicated to drawing, nice one.  I spent some time reading it and it's quite interesting. 

Cheers

Rebeccak

12-17-2005, 06:55 PM

lil_fairy,

You're welcome! :)  One thing ~ your images aren't working ~ do you use an image hosting service? 

Check out this thread:

New to CGTalk?  Learn how to post IMAGES here! ( http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=267088)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=267088

Looking forward to seeing your work! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-17-2005, 07:33 PM

hey lil_fairy (must be the cutest usernick around...)

Something's wrong with the pics.  I get a blank screen and I am told I am watching a 1x1 pixel pic. 

I suggest you take a look at this tutorial (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=267088) complete with screenshots and all so we all can watch your efforts inline, .i.e.  without clicking links:)

EDIT: what was I thinking?  to be faster than the postbot?:rolleyes:

Mu

12-17-2005, 08:14 PM

Hi there,

On OFDW008 I did a greyscale painting of the ref given.  Following rebecca's and nebezial's hints on how you can make use of the color mode in the layers options to just make the color you add to a panting adapt to the underlying value study I enhanced it a little bit. 

Rebecca: I told you artweaver does not have a color mode for its layers.  But I discovered that the GIMP does!  I just created a new layer and filled the whole thing with one color to check if my values work with that.  And then I added a darker red for the shadows in the belly section.  Do you think this is a good way to start exploring the world of color and studying its effects on lighting and the painting in general?  Or would you advise me to stick to BW-value studies only a little bit longer? 

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c4/mkayi/cg_ofdw_008_II.jpg

Rebeccak

12-17-2005, 08:22 PM

Mr. Mu,

This looks fantastic! : thumbsup: :bounce:

Originally posted by Mr. Mu: Rebecca: I told you artweaver does not have a color mode for its layers.  But I discovered that the GIMP does!  I just created a new layer and filled the whole thing with one color to check if my values work with that. 
Great! : thumbsup: Thanks for sharing that! :) 

And then I added a darker red for the shadows in the belly section.  Do you think this is a good way to start exploring the world of color and studying its effects on lighting and the painting in general?  Or would you advise me to stick to BW-value studies only a little bit longer? 
I think you should run with the color bit in blending mode right now since you seem to be on to something.  However, for future studies, I would always advise you to start out, as you did beautifully here, in black / white / gray (limited pallette) mode. 

There is no better way to build your understanding of form than through black / white / gray studies such as the one which you have done. 

So long as you keep your color on a separate layer / apart from your grayscale image, bear in mind that you can always modify your grayscale painting, and then continue to work with the color on top. :) 

Great work, and I look forward to more! : thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-17-2005, 08:28 PM

So long as you keep your color on a separate layer / apart from your grayscale image, bear in mind that you can always modify your grayscale painting, and then continue to work with the color on top. :) 

*slaps forehead*

Never thought of that!  What a great hint! 

Yea, I meant to keep on with the bw thing - I just figured I could find out what colors do by way of working with the extra layer set to color. 

I can go step-by-step to a deeper understanding of color now...or hang on... I need to get a basic understanding of color first:scream:

lil_fairy

12-18-2005, 02:38 AM

Sorry guys, I actually read that tutorial before I posted.  Maybe its where the image is hosted, although it works fine for me.  Meaning I don't see a picture, I see a link and when I click the link it brings up the image. 

I really hope this works now, although I am very embaressed to post them as they are so very ugly.  But I guess this is the only way for me to learn. 
I am trying to color/shade the assignment 2, but it is really not working out well....

I think I am hopeless.  Is it because I am sketching on the wacom?  Should I start with paper and pen first?  The feeling using a wacom and a pencil is totally different.  Especially when I want to draw small things on the wacom, it is really quite hard to be precise. 

Here is the shaded version, it is very horrible...... so when you click the link be mentally prepared ok
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/elisaang/assg2_shade.jpg

lil_fairy

12-18-2005, 02:44 AM

Wow Mr. Mu I just want to say that your work looks very nice ! : thumbsup: If only I could do that ! 

Rebeccak

12-18-2005, 05:28 AM

lil_fairy,

I think you've done quite a nice job, particularly on your 2 minute sketches, which I think turned out the best! :)  I wouldn't worry about how 'good' these are yet ~ we're not after a final product here, we're just here to learn and to grow as artists. 

Here I've done a review of your 2nd 2 minute piece, which I also thought turned out quite well. :) 

A great and easy concept about the figure in general is that the Torso, which is the combination of the rib cage and pelvis, can be generalized / simplified as a PEANUT SHAPE.  Almost no matter what angle you are viewing the figure from, or what pose the figure is in, you can nearly always find the shape of the peanut. 

The head can be generalized as a ball, as you have done quite well in your 2 min.  drawing. 

The limbs (arms and legs) can be generalized either as cylindrical shapes, or even just as gestural, curved lines. 

I think that we should focus on drawing first before painting.  Drawing well is essential to painting well.  This is a well~established rule in art ~ Draw first.  Paint second. :) 

Hope these tips help. : thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

PS ~ one thing I would recommend is to limit the size of the images that you post to 800 pixels wide.  In Photoshop, you would just keep a full size copy of your image.  Then duplicate the image, and rename it as *filename*_small.  Go to Image > Image Size, and enter 800 pixels.  Make sure that "Constrain Proportions" is checked in the Image Size dialogue box, and your proportional height will automatically be determined.  Click ok, and your image will now be 600 pixels wide (by the proportional height, which PS will determine). 

Make sure to save for web (Alt + Ctrl + Shift + S or File > Save for Web) and use the JPG format.  Usually it's best to keep images to under 200 KB for fast loading times, so reduce the image quality if necessary in the Save for Web dialog that appears (the KB size of the doc is visible in the lower left hand corner of the Save for Web dialog box). 

:)

Mu

12-18-2005, 05:02 PM

Hi everyone,

a caricature of the belgian caricaturist Hans Deconninck, who threatened me to pay this "favour" back:scream:

I might just send some photos of rebecca to him, claiming that was me:scream:

In case anyone is interested in the reference, you can find it on his website (http://users.pandora.be/hansdeconinck/EIGENPRENTEN.htm)

technically speaking this is another shot at this greyscale-covered-with-another-layer-set-to-color thingy. 

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/6451/hanzzz3st.jpg

Rebeccak

12-18-2005, 05:39 PM

Wow, pretty nice, Mr. Mu! : cool:

Originally posted by the former Mr. Mu (RIP): I might just send some photos of rebecca to him, claiming that was me :scream:
Hmm...you sure you want to do that? : twisted: :scream:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

lil_fairy

12-18-2005, 07:06 PM

Hi !  Thanks for your wonderful teachings rebeccak !  I have already ordered "The New drawing on the right side of the brain", and another book for drawing animals.  I did not buy the "dynamic anatomy' as it was not instock on amazon, and so required me to purchase from private parties.  Is the "dynamic anatomy" absolutely necessary?  Or should I attempt to finish the "drawing on the right side of the brain" first and then proceed on to "dynamic anatomy"? 

Anyways as you said I should learn to draw first, I drew another sketch trying to remember that everything is made of simple shapes.... I couldn't do the other master copies as there were too many people inside and I couldn't see what was what. 

Anyways here it is a 5 min sketch
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/elisaang/assg3_5mins.jpg

Rebeccak

12-18-2005, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by lil_fairy: Hi !  Thanks for your wonderful teachings rebeccak !  I have already ordered "The New drawing on the right side of the brain", and another book for drawing animals.  I did not buy the "dynamic anatomy' as it was not instock on amazon, and so required me to purchase from private parties.  Is the "dynamic anatomy" absolutely necessary?  Or should I attempt to finish the "drawing on the right side of the brain" first and then proceed on to "dynamic anatomy"? 

Anyways as you said I should learn to draw first, I drew another sketch trying to remember that everything is made of simple shapes.... I couldn't do the other master copies as there were too many people inside and I couldn't see what was what. 

Anyways here it is a 5 min sketch
You're welcome, it's my pleasure. :)  I think it's great you've ordered Betty Edwards' book, and I think it will be of more help to you right now than Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy book.  The exercises in Edwards' classic book are great, and really get you thinking about the process of drawing. 

I think your new sketch looks great!  The key with these is to do as many as possible.  Look for your own Reference on the web if you run out of examples ~ just google "Master Drawing" or Google your favorite artist + drawing, for example, "Michelangelo" + Drawing.  You should get several returns. :) 

Looking forward to seeing more work from you and everyone! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

fredlovebot

12-18-2005, 08:14 PM

Just letting you guys know that Im not dead (yet ;).  Just been having a tough time lately with 2 big tests in school and I been chilling for a few days after that.  Holidays are coming up in a few days which gives me plenty of time to paint (if I dont flunk one of the tests ;)

Carry on everybody, great work! 

CalvinChoy

12-18-2005, 08:47 PM

Hey all,

Haven'st posted here for a while lol.  I've been busy with work and school, monday through friday im at campus and during the weekend I've to work .. drawing with my tablet became a luxury :p. Although I dont have time to draw with my tablet, I bought a big sketchbook and have been drawing in the evening when im at campus.  I tried to scan the drawings, but my scanner is somehow broke -_-, I will scan them when i get a new one, maybe xmas as present :p Anyway, I just had time to make some sketches again, I just picked a drawing from the assignments. 

Hehe . .  proportions is still a problem lol, the ass/leg part is so fat hahaha

I can see that you guys improved alot !  good job :) and also see some new people joined the newbie lounge, welcome all and nice to meet ya all :D

Well, gotta go again, will post again when I got some more time again :)

ciao~

SpiritDreamer

12-18-2005, 09:23 PM

Tutorial to Lil Fairy
Hi
First thing I would recommend is buying the book "Drawing the Human Head" by Burne Hogarth.  Especially for anyone doing portraiture.  An understanding of facial muscles and their reaction to time is a must for depicting correctly how and why an older person's face looks the way it does.  Another factor that is essential is where.  If you don't know where a muscle on a face originates, and where its destination lies under the skin, you will never end up with a convincing face, that is alive with emotions, that range from subtle almost imperceptable to extremely obvious.  Understanding the nature of a muscle and how it relates to time, circumstance and function is essential for depicting the human form correctly.  And for doing justice through your painting to the marvel of evolution that is the human form. 

Method used to re-paint your face. 
Step #1 Tinted picture using colored spotlights found in effects, top of screen. 
Step #2 Corrected proportions using "liquid lens" brush.  A better name would be "shaper brush" I think.  Allows painted surface to be pushed, pulled, stretched and compressed.  Just as if you were manipulating a piece of clay.  Go to layers top of screen, press that and menu appears, At bottom of menu is dynamic plug-ins, press that and another menu comes up, liquid lens is on that one.  Press liquid lens and you're in business.  Experiment with each liquid lens brush, they are all great.  I used the top left one for re-shaping face. 
Step #3 Go to windows, top of screen, press that, menu comes up.  Press "show brush creator", box appears with all your brushes and settings.  In top left corner are two small boxes, one on left, press to get various types of brushes.  One on right gives variations within that category.  Press box on left, menu appears, scroll down, find tinting, select it and you have tinting brushes.  Now press little box on right.  Menu appears.  I just used two of these for this painting.  Basic round modified slightly to get texture, used to create age spots.  Next and final brush used was "oily round 35", found in tinting section also.  Also menu below the two little boxes where you get brushes from select size from there.  And box will come up right of menu.  Control size of brush from there.  Leave that whole box on screen as you paint.  So you can adjust size as you paint.  When you want it to disappear just touch your painting behind it and vice versa. 
Well that is all there is to it. 
Just Kidding LOL. 
The best advice I can give is while painting, don't think of it in terms of lines.  That is drawing.  Think in terms of frosting a cake.  Only you are using paint and a brush or pallette knife. 
Have fun! :) 
Glenn

http://artbyglenngallegos.com/images/Old_Man_Final.jpg

lil_fairy

12-18-2005, 10:30 PM

Oh my god spirit dreamer I am so amazed by how you managed to transform my old man painting !!  It was incredible!  I will definitely try to replicate what you have done on my own ! 

I will really really like to thank all of you for all your time and effort spent in enlightening me.  You guys are so helpful and kind ! 

I searched for the book on drawin gthe human head by Hogarth on amazon.co.uk and again it was not in stock.  I think I will go down to waterstones and try to get it or buy it used.  So what do you recommend more? " Dynamic Anatomy" or "Drawing the human head" ?  Will the dynamic anatomy include things about the face? 

By the way is there like a book or something that can teach me in very simple and concise steps (much like spirit dreamer's tutorial for transforming the old man painting) how to paint things nicely using painter?  I do read alot of tutorials, but not all of them tell me which brush to use, and how to use them.  I downloaded Rob's brushes, and from the recommendation of another website (http://lundentoons.com/) I also tried to use the gouache, and also from yet another website I also tried the airbrush.... I have seen many walk throughs as well but I think with my very limited background I need things to be explained to me a little more.  Explanations like "now I just add the details in", "i now blend the colours together" leave me scratching my head.  Also I found this website about dragons (link (http://neondragonart.com/dp/color/)) with alot of downloadable lineart for you to color.  I am really hoping to play with them, as I do like fantasy stuff, but all the tutorials on that website are for photoshop, and I'd really really like to do it with painter as I find painter more fun than photoshop for painting. 

Sorry for the long post again. 

p.s I will try to do more sketches if you are not too sick of them

Once again, thank you all so so much, you have no idea how much it means to me that people are encouraging me and teaching me.  My mum's reaction when I told her that I want to learn art was "Why?  You want to be an art teacher?"  I can't find any drawing courses near where I stay now (Manchester), but when I go to Taiwan next year I am sure there will be loads of weekly night drawing classes I can join.  Regarding drawing classes, do you think there is a difference learning to draw on paper and on the tablet?  Say I am only interested in digital art, should I find a traditional class or find a 'digital' class if there is even one out there...... I am sorry I have this thing about computers.... I love them

In terms of a good book that goes into digital painting with Painter, the best in my opinion is Don Seegmiller's famous book, Digital Character Design & Painting. ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584502320/qid=1134946186/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-4359211-5622431?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) There's a version for Photoshop (CS) so don't get that one, but look for the one linked. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Serkeien

12-18-2005, 11:17 PM

Hello there, I'm not really beginning, but I still feel I need some help.  I haven't really studied anatomy enough to always know what I'm doing, and since I'm not one to start out with a figure sketch... sometimes I run into problems. 

Here's one that I'm having a problem with..
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/serkeien/4e5378f3.jpg I was doodling last night and came up with this gorgeous eye, but now I can't seem to build a face up around it, and I really hate to just leave it. 

Here's one of my older ones.. which, again, is unfinished and in a very sketchy stage:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/serkeien/tattootoocopy.jpg

And here's one I just did, more cartoonish.  It's a sketch though, not really intended to become a finished picture:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b375/serkeien/72dfc355.jpg

Tell me what you guys think.  :D

Rebeccak

12-18-2005, 11:22 PM

Serkeien,

Welcome aboard!  It would help if you could A. Tell us something about your background / training, and B. Show us examples of any finished work / or galleries of finished work which you may have. 

The eye is indeed gorgeous.  A great thread that is going on right now that might help you to loosen up / capture the whole figure is the:

What's important is less an individual piece of work, and more of the amount of mileage, or practice, you get by doing several pieces.  The 15 MS thread is a great way to get a lot of mileage quickly. 

Hope to hear more from you. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Kami Z

12-19-2005, 11:36 AM

Hello, my name is Kami.  I am 17 and I am attending highschool as a junior.  I am not in any art class rightnow.  I usually go online and try learn how to draw.  I've always enjoy looking at beautiful artworks and I want to make my own someday. 
I read through some tutorials in the forum and I think they are really helpful.  Here's the drawings I just did after reading throught the tutorials. 
http://www.deviantart.com/view/26587821/

I really want to improve and be a good artist!  So please give me some pointers! 
thank you. 

lil_fairy

12-19-2005, 08:00 PM

Thank you spirit dreamer for the website.  Guess what I went to order all 3 books. ' Dyanmic Anatomy', 'Drawing the Human Head' and 'Digital Character Design & Painting'.  So in total I have bought 5 books for my new hobby.  Do you think I will be able to finish those books?  Seem like an awful lot for starters.  By the way do you think this book The Photoshop and Painter Artist Tablet Book: Creative Techniques in Digital Painting (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321168917/qid=1135021570/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-4759688-7403237?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) is good?  Or do I not need it as I have gotten the 'Digital Character Design & Painting' ? 

By the way spirit dreamer, I couldn't find how to do step 1 in painter. 
Step #1 Tinted picture using colored spotlights found in effects, top of screen
I don't see colored spotlights under the Effects menu. 

Anyways this is a sketch I did of a reference found in the 15 minute sketchathon thread.  Hope I am getting better not worse :hmm:

(10mins) I think the legs are too thin
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/elisaang/olympic_diver_10mins.jpg

The 2 mins one I think is the most horrible one as I was trying hard to stay with 2mins. 

Kami Z

12-19-2005, 09:40 PM

Here I was trying to learn from Rebeccak's beautiful drawing.  It's my second drawing.  I drew this while looking at her drawing on my monitor.  I hope this is ok. 
http://www.deviantart.com/view/26604360/

I really want to improve.  so please give me some pointers on both this and my first drawing.  Please help me get better.  Thank you ^^;

SpiritDreamer

12-19-2005, 11:21 PM

Hi
Lil Fairy...
Burn Hogarth was an amazeing man, and an even more amazeing teacher, one of the best
I ever had.  He put a lifetime of his learning into his books, so that the art of figure drawing
would stay alive in the arts in the future.  No one can expect to learn all that he has to teach in a day.  I still find myself going back to his books to find the answers, after thirty plus years of figure drawing...So my advice, ...just do your best, and take it a day at a time...:wise:

The books on digital painting you mentioned,..I don't know that answer,...I never read
any boks on digital painting...I figured it would take all the fun out of the EXPLORATION....
and would limit my view of a new medium, but that's just me in this case.  Everyone has
there own method of learning, and should stick with whatever works for them...:)

Now ...about the colored spot lights...go to effects, select, and EXPLORE..EXPLORE...
EXPLORE... They're in there, along with alot of other GREAT Stuff...Try all of the Magic
out on your new figures, it's a lot of... FUN..., And a great way to LEARN....
I look forward to seeing your results....SERIOUSLY...:bounce:
Take Care
Glenn

DanielNasc

12-20-2005, 07:09 AM

Kami Z,

Whoa, really nice!  I've seen only your second drawing, though (the first link is blocked for non-members of the host site). 

Kami Z

12-20-2005, 08:10 AM

Thanks you, DanielNasc. 
hmm, the first link is from the same site as the second one.  I just clicked it and it works for me.  I don't know what to do.  v_v

BBJ-83

12-20-2005, 09:06 AM

@Kami Z - Hey, really nice work!  I like your style.  Keep going!!! 

My new tablet arrived just now:scream: Unfortunately I have to wait until X-Mas and it makes me suffer to look a the parcel.  5 days to go...:arteest:

Rebeccak

12-20-2005, 12:08 PM

Kami Z,

Welcome aboard! :)  Thank you for the compliment, it's very nice of you. :) 

I think your line drawing of the legs looks great! : thumbsup: I can't see the first image you posted due to a message 'mature content filter' ~ will try to tweak my settings a bit later, perhaps it's something on my end. :) 

Looking forward to seeing more work from you! :) 

lil_fairy,

Great to see you participating in the Sketchathon! :)  I think it's a great way to get a lot of practice.  Your 3rd Sketch in particular shows a lot of promise ~ keep up the good work! : thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

lil_fairy

12-20-2005, 01:00 PM

Thank you rebeccak for your kind encouragement. 

Thank you spirit dreamer, I will go and explore painter and will post my altered old man when I am done, and hope that I won't disappoint you. 

I was just browsing the first half of the thread today, and my oh my everybody's work is SO impressive! : bowdown: I obviously have a lot of work to do to catch up.  I really feel very embarrassed about my sketches now.  I promise I will try harder to do better.  I also read about measurement during the first half of the thread, I realize that I never ever bothered to measure anything. 

Oh oh !  I also will like to subscribe to a digital art magazine, hopefully one with tutorials/projects to do every issue.  Does anyone have any recommendations?  I live in the UK for your info, so it will have to be available here. 

I would love to comment and advise on the pieces posted but I know too little to comment.  So sorry about that, I can only say that ALL of them look very nice to me. : applause:

SpiritDreamer

12-20-2005, 03:24 PM

Hi
Lil Fairy
Go to effects...select ...menue comes up...select...surface control...select...apply lighting
These are the colored spot lights I use.  THEY ARE KIND OF TRICKY...but have a beautiful effect
on drawings or paintings ...Play with them a while on your drawings, and if you have any
questions about them, let me know. 
Also on same menu, is...apply surface texture...select color, and it will tint your whole canvas
that color....If you need any help figureing out ether of these, just let me know, and I will
be more than happy to help you, if I can. 
Take Care
Glenn

lil_fairy

12-21-2005, 01:18 AM

Hi Spirit Dreamer ! 

I tried to use the spotlight thing but hmm... couldn't get it work right.  Also I failed to use the liquid lens as well.  The face will easily end up very distorted.  So I thought what the heck just repaint the eyes and forehead, and I did.  I am much happier with it now, the forehead was way way too low (thanks to rebeccak for showing that to me!).  I tried to follow your steps to add age spots, but the tinting brush did not seem to give the same effect as yours.  Did you use a very large brush size?  Is it supposed to pick up the underlying color and tint it?  As it does not seem to do that at all, and how do you get the spotty texture?  Do you dab dab dab or did you somehow make the brush to have the required texture and just drag it across? 

Here is the my altered version.  I think it is much better than the old one (hard to get any worse I know..).  Any advice you can give me to improve it? 

Oh and do you usually do both eyes at the same time or one then the other?  I found that when I proceed to do the other eye after the first one, I will forget all the different colours I used and those that were wrong colours also contribute to the look.  So in the end I get two different looking eyes.  I use the dropper to pick out colours from the first eye but the colour does not seem to have the same effect as when I layer colours on colours.  Any advice on this matter?  Also I find myself using the airbrush alot, only using rob's blender brush at the end to give the texture look.  Is there any other brushes you'd recommend for blending?  Gouache brushes seem a bit too opaque ?  Or should I tweak it to use pressure to adjust the opacity and go from there?  What is your favorite brush?  I just wish to take full advantage of painter.  Photoshop also has the airbrush so it isn't that unique, and it also does not give the painted look.....

WOW!!!  This is hugely impressive progress, it's fantastic to see! : thumbsup: Great work, and I think with Spirit Dreamer's help, you will shortly master the mysteries of Painter. :) 

Fantastic job, can't wait to see more! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Mu

12-21-2005, 08:45 AM

lil_fairy

Great to see you are progressing so much and completing that portrait. 

Or should I tweak it to use pressure to adjust the opacity and go from there? 
that is my favourite method at the time being.  Setting opacity to pressure sensitivity and then only lightly cover one colour with another, then picking up the newly mixed colour in between and again lightly shape the edge. 

Also, as you are working with colour you can add a slight saturation boost (or layer a different vibrant color) at the area of transition if this edge is the border between light and shadow. 

But, you should stick to whatever information Glenn can give, simply because, well see here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=301086)

:D

SpiritDreamer

12-21-2005, 03:16 PM

Good Morning
Lil Fairy...
Age spots, made by useing big broad brush, with light spotty texture when applied,
very light brown color.  I just kind of dabbed, and dragged it here and there, heavier
in shadow areas, lighter touch on lighter areas.  Reduced size of brush for smaller surfaces
like nose ect... covered entire face, and head with this very light texture..more in some
places, less in others. 
On the eyes, I bounce back and forth, searching for colors, picking them off the color
wheel, to try to match the colors in the eyes that I see...lots of colors in those eyes. 
Use medium size brush at first, and end up with smaller brush, the further along you go,
until at the end, you have a fine detail brush, that you use to pop the highlights in with. 
NEVER pure white, there is also a lot of color in highlights...look very closely, and you
will.... SEE...!!!.  Soft in some places, crisp in other places..Just put one color on top
of another..tint on top of tint, gives eyes, and entire painting actually, depth and
luster... Also one eye will usually be lighter than the other, due to lighting source in
reality. 
I rarely use blenders,...they tend to flatten things out, and destroy the painterly look
im am after.  THAT GOES FOR AIR BRUSH TOO ! 
I prefer to see brush strokes on top of brush strokes, with underlying colors showing
thru.  This gives more depth, vitality, and expressiveness to painting. 
In the end, you should be able to see the artist hand at work in the painting, or else
you might as well just take a photo, and save yourself the work and pleasure of painting. 

There is a brush in the tinting section, at botom of the list of brushs, called SOFTENER...
It's one of my favorites...softens things, without blurring too much, and destroying the
color relationships I have built up in the painting. 

I see you fixed his shoulder level, where it meets the neck...GREAT...That's a key element
in painting older people,..Their head is always below their shoulders, gets more extreme,
the older the person is. 
You've done a really nice improvement to him so far...GREAT ACTUALLY...
You might want to reduce or narrow his jaw muscles a little, and put darker shadows there. 
also broaden diamiter of his skull, a little.  Study an egg, and you will see how it is broader
at one end.  A face and skull are very simaler.  Also study how the light and shadows appear
on the eggs surface.  Put it under a lamp light ect.,  to get a sense of how the light and
shadow gives it, that volume that your eyes,...SEE...! 
Lower top of ears a little, ..More shadows in and around eyes,..under chin on neck,and
outter edge of most of skull and face,.. and under nose ect. 
Also pay close attension to the forms created by the muscles, on his brow and between
his eyes.  These muscles are key to his exspression, and it is very important to get them
RIGHT...

In the end, observation of detail is very important....but it's not the putting down of
every detail that creates a great painting,...It is more to do with the feeling you as
an artist put into the details, that you do put down.  To capture the essance of what
you are creating...be it in... Paint...Clay....Marble...or whatever medium you decide on. 
This is the true objective of ART, and the ARTIST....

Well thats about it for now.  Let me see this portrait, when, and if you decide to take it
further...GREAT JOB SO FAR....BIG IMPROVEMENTS...
I just wish I could be there, leaning over your shoulder, to guide you in the right direction,
as you learn to PAINT....Would be a lot easier for me, than doing all this typeing..LOL ! 

Have a GREAT DAY...and ...HAPPY PAINTING...:)
Keep it fun if you can... after all, it is only paint, or in this case, the illusion of paint...LOL
Take Care
Glenn

lil_fairy

12-21-2005, 06:32 PM

Hello ! 

Thank you everyone for your help and advice. 

LoL Spirit Dream I too very much wish that you could be next to me teaching me.  How much more I will learn.  But man has not yet invented a teleportation device...

Yesterday I found out about opposing curves from reading rebeccak's lessons, and today I found out about watercolors in painter.  I am going to try both of these out now, and see how it goes! : thumbsup:

Another quick question about painting in painter, do you determine all the colours you use before you start painting?  If so do you just draw on a blank canvas or do you create a new color set ?  Thank you very much for sharing your precious knowledge with me. 

SpiritDreamer

12-23-2005, 11:07 AM

Hi....Lil Fairy...:)

I took a lot of color theory classes years ago, now I STUDY paintings to see how other
artist use, and used color. 
I don't draw when... I PAINT,... I PAINT,.... when I PAINT....
I block in the colors I SEE, when working from a photo,..and block in the colors I WANT
when i'm not working from a phto. 
In eather case, I use a broad or big brush, at the start, NO LINE involved in this METHOD...
I only use fine detail brush at end of painting, for hightlights in eyes ect. 
I just eyeball the colors as I go along, and then select them from the color wheel. 
Hope this helps, and answers your question....LOOK at, and SEE.. my method for painting,
in my ANATOMY THREAD, and in my WEB SITE....A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS...:)

TAKE CARE...HAVE FUN...and ... KEEP POSTING....:thumbsup:
Glenn

lunat1k

12-23-2005, 04:02 PM

Haven't posted in a while.  because I was doing more practice the traditional way. 
Here's something I did today (2+ hours):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/skull_front.jpg

I know the proportions are way off, I just don't feel like messing with it.  It's kind of funny, because it turned out smaller than the reference I used. 
Now I'll start with the side view. 

Mu

12-23-2005, 05:33 PM

I know you mentioned proportions and I think you observe well enough to judge your chances for improvement (better than I could, probably). 

But I would like to say how much I love the atmosphere you conveyed with your study.  The losse strokes on the upper edge and the careful shading at the same time - I really like it! 

:applause:

Rebeccak

12-23-2005, 11:20 PM

lunat1k,

Verrrrrrrrry cool, and very impressive! : thumbsup: I think you will really get good if you stick with your practice. :)  Definitely looking forward to seeing your side view rendition! : wip:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

lunat1k

12-23-2005, 11:55 PM

Ready or not here it comes... (less than 2 hrs)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/skull_side.jpg

I think this one turned out a bit better.  Now when I look at it again the mouth is elongated and the jaw looks flat...
Mr. Mu and Rebecca, thank you.  Will keep pushing :banghead:

Rebeccak

12-24-2005, 03:44 PM

lunat1k,

WOW, this is really impressive ~ and very beautiful! :)  I really like the wispy lines that you have left as construction lines, I think that adds a lot to this piece, as well as your very nice command of values here.  I really think you will do great things, and I look forward to seeing your next piece! : thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

lunat1k

12-24-2005, 05:31 PM

Thanks Rebecca :beer:
Next:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/girl_head.jpg

I'm having huge difficulties with the mouth area.  Maybe I should go to the basics with heads - proportions, construction...

Rebeccak

12-24-2005, 05:47 PM

lunat1k,

No problem! : thumbsup: Great to see you have your next piece going ~ with respect to the mouth, just keep working at it ~ yes, it's tough, but if you just think about things in terms of VALUE RELATIONSHIPS, and not as objects or forms, it just becomes a problem solving exercise.  Try using a softer brush, or an airbrush if you are not already.  Also remember that forms that are further away will have just the slightest bit of blur to them.  Once you've got a number of different values in your piece, you can just Alt + Click and sample values in your painting while using a brush ~ remembering the simple principle that
>closer values< will create a soft transition, while >further values< will create a hard transition. 

Looking forward to seeing your update! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

lunat1k

12-25-2005, 12:05 AM

I can't do it any more.  I'm beaten...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/girl_head02.jpg

Tweaked the nose, eyes/brows, and... the mouth, argh :cry:
You know Rebecca, I had already given up on this, and then you pop up waiting an update.  I just couldn't leave it :)
Off to bed. 

Dreamy Kid

12-25-2005, 03:33 PM

Merry Christmas everyone, enjoy the holiday and may you have a gooood time ! : applause:

Mu

12-26-2005, 04:14 PM

remembering the simple principle that >closer values< will create a soft transition, while >further values< will create a hard transition

Rebecca,

Do you mean further/closer as in further/closer to the viewer or...

further=very dark, very light
closer=mid grey, light grey
? 

Sorry, I am confused again.... *sighs*

can't buy me new brains, you see?  Have to ask all the time. 
*slaps temples, drools*

Sorry about the last "update", don't know what I was thinking... Anyway I started (and kind of finished) something new:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/girl_body03.jpg

I'm not particularly happy with her right arm and left leg under the knee.  Excuse the splotchy look. 

BBJ-83

12-26-2005, 08:45 PM

Hey lunat1k, I think it's great!!  Got a new tablet for Christmas, but unfortunately I have to learn a lot and don't have the time for drawing:sad:

Rebeccak

12-26-2005, 09:06 PM

lunat1k,

Looks great!  I'm away from home and won't be able to comment in depth on your piece til a bit later, but it's great to see your study, and I think you've got a really excellent start! : thumbsup: Great way to extend the things you've been working on and to apply it! :) 

Mr. Mu,

This is taken from the Anatomy Review 003: SHADING TUTORIAL AND HUMAN SKULL EXERCISE: (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=259291)

Basicallly, what I meant is that values that are closer to one another in the value scale ~ for example, a dark gray and a black ~ will create a softer edge transition when placed next to one another than say, a light gray and a black, which will create a sharper transition.  Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't talking about 'closer' spatially, but 'closer' in terms of how similar values were. 

Below, this is demonstrated where the orange text appears ~ showing that a soft transition is created by placing two similar values next to one another, and a hard transtition is created by placing two dissimilar values next to one another.  That's all I really meant in my earlier post. :) 

Um, I don't know if this is the best place to ask this, but, since it's the beginner's lounge, I'll ask it anyway:

What should I expect from an art teacher, more specifically, from a drawing teacher? 
I've never had art lessons before (apart from the very vague subject at school) and my drawing skills lack even the most fundamental techniques, such as correct anatomy, shading, composition and perspective.  I'm not willing to learn anything about painting until I feel comfortable on grayscale values and I really wish to have a deep knowledge of realistic drawing so I can develop my own free style later on. 
The big question is, considering te fact that I have very little knowledge on the subject, how the hell can I tell good teachers apart from a bad one? 
How can I evaluate the growth of my skills? 
I know each student works better with a specific kind of teacher, but if you could me give me any hints I'd be grateful. 
btw, I'm trying to boost my abilities during my vacations because I'll be starting college next year and it'll get me very busy...

oh, and I'm trying the gesture drawings on this forum and betty edwards exercises on "drawing on the right side of the brain".  Any suggestions about what more should I practice are more than welcome. 

Happy holydays everyone! 

(and sorry for the weird english and the long post)

cypherx

12-27-2005, 05:06 AM

Well I've been trying to prep for oil painting by trying to do some digital sketches since I was a digital artist before I got my hands dirty in the traditional sense.  Here's a practice sketch I did today, trying to work out an elf with a different sort of pose

I think my biggest problem with oils will be not being able to use the airbrush tool I'm so fond of in photoshop! 

http://direwire.com/images/oil_sketch1.jpg

Rebeccak

12-27-2005, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by DanielNasc: Um, I don't know if this is the best place to ask this, but, since it's the beginner's lounge, I'll ask it anyway:

What should I expect from an art teacher, more specifically, from a drawing teacher? 
I've never had art lessons before (apart from the very vague subject at school) and my drawing skills lack even the most fundamental techniques, such as correct anatomy, shading, composition and perspective.  I'm not willing to learn anything about painting until I feel comfortable on grayscale values and I really wish to have a deep knowledge of realistic drawing so I can develop my own free style later on. 
The big question is, considering the fact that I have very little knowledge on the subject, how the hell can I tell good teachers apart from a bad one? 
How can I evaluate the growth of my skills? 
I know each student works better with a specific kind of teacher, but if you could me give me any hints I'd be grateful. 
btw, I'm trying to boost my abilities during my vacations because I'll be starting college next year and it'll get me very busy...
This is a hard question to answer, but generally, you’re going to be able to tell pretty soon whether or not your teacher knows what he or she is talking about, I would say.  The best teachers I had knew what they were doing and had a vision about their own teaching methods, pushed me to do better work / generally encouraged me, and when I needed to find my own way, allowed me to do that as well. 

It’s hard to know at first whether a teacher is ‘good’ or not, because what they may be trying to teach you may be different than what you are trying to learn.  You cannot go to someone whose specialty is ceramics and expect them to teach you how to draw.  That’s a silly example, but on a more subtle level the same principle holds true.  Until you’ve taken that first course, you may NOT know what is good and bad for you, but you will quickly find out.  If you find that you do not like a particular course, find another one. 

oh, and I'm trying the gesture drawings on this forum and betty edwards exercises on "drawing on the right side of the brain".  Any suggestions about what more should I practice are more than welcome. 
I really recommend trying out the 15 Minute Sketchathon (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=295498), which is a Sticky at the top of this Forum.  When you feel ready, why not also try out the Open Figure Drawing Workshops (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2602753&postcount=3)?  OFDW 010 just opened tonight.  Each one runs for two weeks.  Feel free to join in at any time! :) 

I hope this helps!  Please let me know if you have any more questions. 

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak

12-27-2005, 05:20 AM

cypherx,

This is a beautiful piece so far! : thumbsup:

A few minor crits:
~the back, while beautiful so far, has highlights that are a little too 'hot', or rather, too bright. 
~the face could look a bit more dimensional. 

My suggestion would firstly be to make a desaturated copy of your image and just look at it in terms of grayscale for a while.  This will help you to see areas which need improvement far more than looking at the piece in color will. 

Comments:

I love the emotional quality to this piece.  There is a really nice feel to the stretch in her arms, though I think if you used reference for the foreshortening, this would help. :)  It's a lovely piece in terms of the mood and the pose.  I would love to see you work further on this! : thumbsup:

So, you are planning to do this traditionally as well?  What medium were you planning to use? :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

cypherx

12-27-2005, 11:41 AM

Thanks, Rebeccak

ummm... lol I said "oil painting" in the description, but seeing as how you never sleep it's alright that you overlooked it.  I won't be doing this particular sketch, and it's as refined as it's going to get, I just wanted to play with different angles, to see what I could come up with pose-wise.  My sister will be sitting for me during the portrait, so I have to find something I like which won't be too difficult to hold... I don't think having her hold her arms out for a while will work though (sadly people get tired *sobs*)

anyhow, I tend to put bright areas on the skin, I'll watch out for going overboard though. 

thanks again

CalvinChoy

12-27-2005, 11:47 AM

Hey all,

I see that most of ya guys are already shading, im still drawing sketches.  I would like to start shading something, although im not sure if im ready for it . .  and photoshop is running not too smooth on my computer.  For the sketches i usually use alias sketchbook now, since it's less heavy then photoshop :)

I saw a couple tutorials about basic shading, so i'm ready to try something out, im just wondering about the brush and other settings, are there any important settings i need to set before i start shading?  or is it just 3 colors soft brush (airbrsuh) and off to go ?  Because when im choosing a brush in photoshop, i see a list of options and settings :S is de default ok to use ? 

thnx :)

Rebeccak

12-27-2005, 12:05 PM

cypherx,

LOL, sorry for that!  :D Thanks for the correction! :) 

Calvin_C,

I would recommend starting out with the airbrush setting ~ it's soft, allowing you to get nice transitions. :) 

Looking forward to seeing your work! :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

DanielNasc

12-27-2005, 03:46 PM

thank you Rebeccak, I'll try the sketchathon this week:thumbsup: Oh, and thanks for the advice on the teachers, I know I made a difficult question, but if a beginner isn't supposed to know what exactly he is looking for, I guess taking some lessons, no matter who is the teacher (with obvious restrictions of course) is my only good option (apart from participating on the threads here :D).  Thanks again, and happy holydays everyone! 

Rebeccak

12-27-2005, 03:54 PM

DanielNasc,

No problem!  Look forward to your participation in the Sketchathon. : thumbsup: Good luck with your first class, and let us know how it goes. :) 

You are doubtless going to learn something new no matter which class you take, so just go in with an open mind and do the best you can. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

BBJ-83

12-28-2005, 01:33 PM

Hey everybody!!! 

Actually I have to learn a lot and don't have the time for drawing.  But now and then I have to draw or paint something just for the good mood.  Here is the last result.  As master I used a photo (that's my dad:))

http://web.inf.tu-dresden.de/%7Es0736231/temp/paps%28web%29.jpg

Rebeccak

12-28-2005, 01:49 PM

bermuda_boy_jimbo,

Really cool image, and it definitely made me smile! :)  I think you might try saturating the picture a little bit, as you are currently getting something of the effect of the flash in the image.  You might try a color layer on top of your other painting layers, and play with the Blending Modes in the layers pallette. 

Great stuff, thanks for posting! : thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

BBJ-83

12-28-2005, 02:14 PM

Thank you a lot Bec!  I'll try to realize your great advices as soon as I have a little bit of free time.  I'm going to post some new versions of the picture the next days. 

Rebeccak

12-28-2005, 02:18 PM

No prob! :)  Looking forward to seeing more of your work. :) 

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

lunat1k

12-28-2005, 11:21 PM

bermuda_boy_jimbo, that's a fine piece you've got there :thumbsup:

As for me... I think I'm slowly stepping away from the splotchy look. 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/girl_head_2.jpg

Kencho

12-28-2005, 11:30 PM

Wow!  Impressive work everybody!  Sorry I'm not posting these days but I'll be very very busy for a loooong while. 

lunat1k, you've done impressive improvements! * applause* Just one suggestion.  I find "useful" (though I can't find the correct values myself!)  to identify the darkest spots, the lightest spots, and work the values relative to them.  In your last pic, the lightest are the nose, the front, and the left cheek, while the darkest are the "undermouth" and the right cheek.  As you can see, you've painted the eyes with the lightest value, and the darkest spots are lighter than they should.  Try giving it a bit more contrast by darkening the already dark ones, and lighting more the lightest spots :)
Keep up the great work though! ;) : thumbsup:

Happy New Year for everyone!!! 

lunat1k

12-29-2005, 12:55 PM

Thanks for the feedback, Kencho.  It does need more contrast. 

Update:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/devalvatora/head_girl_02.jpg

Rebeccak

12-29-2005, 02:13 PM

lunat1k,

This is coming along beautifully. :)  I'm excited to see you doing these portraits! :) 

do you mean you like it
thanks
but can you explain more about your demand that you have asked please
and from what you're saying ill try to answer because my english is not very good
okay
i started draiwng before one week only :)