Transcript of National Archiv es History Office Oral History Interview
Interviewer(s): Jack Kabrel
Interviewee(s): Alan C. Lowe

Jack Kabrel: For some reason, we have not been recording for the last ten minutes.

Alan C. Lowe: Okay. Alright.

Jack Kabrel: So, that's unfortunate. However, I tracked it to when the phone died—one of our phones died—and it was right in the middle of the John Mitchell story. So, if we can just finish that story, and from there, we'll just go right into the Bush Library.

Alan C. Lowe: Okay. Sure. Sure. So, again, I was talking to Baker about his meeting with Nixon. Very strange meeting. He said, at the end, all about Baker's appointment to be Vice Chair of the Senate Watergate Committee—at the end, Baker just made kind of a casual comment, "I hope my friend John Mitchell doesn't have a problem with that issue." And Nixon said, "Well, he might." At that point, Baker said something inside of him snap, and Baker thought he should kind of let the chips fall where they may, as he always said, and figure out what, really, was the truth. So, to me, one of the many, many lessons that Howard Baker taught me was kind of the importance of integrity in that regard. And again, I always joked that with the Baker lessons, I don't always follow them; I try to, but he was a good example of someone who was under an extraordinarily stressful situation. I mean, it doesn't get much more difficult than being right in the middle of Watergate, and having a President of your party being under attack for realizing that you've got to do the right thing for the country; you have to do the right thing by yourself, frankly, for your integrity, and follow the facts. And that's what he did, I think, that whole thing. So, I love the man. He was a great man, and I think we could all learn a lot from him.

Jack Kabrel: Very good. Tell us about your experiences with the George W. Bush Presidential Library's director.

Alan C. Lowe: Sure. So, I got here in April of '09. We were in a temporary facility in Louisville, just north of here. A great temporary facility; staff of, I think, eight or nine when I got here. We're now around 40, if we have all the positions filled. Really interesting kind of beginning of figuring out, getting our arms around the collections. For me, it was a great learning experience, and as we talked about earlier, the predominance of the electronic collection here. A huge paper collection, but also, much larger electronic collection, and trying to figure out, how do you really deal with that? So, hiring a staff, being part of the design process for the building, for the museum. I still remain very proud of our results from that effort. Working with great contractors, working with our Foundation. Working with the President and Mrs. Bush; I always say, it doesn't get much better for someone who loves history to be sitting in a meeting with the former President, and him saying, as we were designing the museum, he was saying, "Well, I was thinking this at that time," or, "My priorities were this," or, "This is why I did that." So, it doesn't get any better than that, and to be able to be part of that, I think, is very, very cool. Getting the staff together, getting the building built, getting the museum built, and then beginning to see how do we work in this community. So, who are the obvious partners? Who are the partners who aren't as obvious that we need to reach out to and start working with? So, at the top of that list was SMU, and really getting deeply involved with them. They've been great in terms of welcoming us, but also, finding specific ways to work with us. So, for example, they created something called the Center for Presidential History, headed up by Dr. Jeffrey Engel, who's became a really good friend, one of my best friends here, that that center does oral histories as well as public programming. A lot of that public programming is done in partnership with us. So, it's become a great conduit into the academic life of the campus, and also, a great partner for us in reaching out to the broader community. So, its been an amazing kind of whirlwind of an experience here. It doesn't feel like I've been here for seven years, but I think we've accomplished a lot in that time.

Jack Kabrel: You talked about when you were executive director of the Howard H. Baker Jr. Center of Public Policy.

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah.

Jack Kabrel: In the Bush Library, how much input did you have for that mission?

Alan C. Lowe: Well, you know, you come into this, and I've been part of this world for a while, and you know, here's a basic, core mission of this. And it's something that I have a great passion for, so, I know this is what we accomplish, or can accomplish, as a presidential library. What you need to do, then, is say, "What am I either adding to that, or how am I magnifying that in this specific instance, right?" So, I know, for example, that we always talk about the importance of education at the presidential libraries. What unique assets do we have to make it great; to really have an educational impact on our community and beyond? So, a good example of that here is, during the Bush administration, they renovated the situation room, and they gave us two rooms; they gave us the old conference room, and the old command room. The paneling, the furniture; all that came to us. So, we realized that would be a great educational resource. So, we reconstructed the conference room here; we reconstructed the Command Room at Reagan. And we got a grant a year and a half or so ago to connect the two rooms by technology, and to put together the first of what I hope are many simulations for kids to command and assume different roles, and have to solve a crisis together. It can be either a standalone exercise here at Bush, or we can connect with the kids at Reagan. And I think, over time, we've talked to the Pentagon, to Mount Vernon, to connecting with them and doing other scenarios there as well. So again, that education thing was part of our core mission. I knew that, I bought into that, I love that, but then how do you really implement that here? What kind of unique way can you do it at Bush? Certainly, education of being connected to a great university, SMU, is another kind of unique asset we have here. So a big part of my thinking has been, how do I maximize that, and really, again, have the broadest and deepest impact, and education? At Baker, I kind of had to, obviously, I had Senator Baker's input, and a great board at the university, but we really kind of had the formulaic vision there. And by the way, I also reached out, when I was with Baker, to the Center for Legislative Archives there at the National Archives—they were a terrific partner. And to the other congressional centers around the country. We all came together as an organization. So, I was able to help learn for them to craft a vision, but I would say it's more from scratch there than it was here. I was able to come into a program I knew, and respected, and wanted to move forward, but then you think, "How do I do it in this unique situation with George W. Bush?"

Jack Kabrel: Can you talk a little about the email controversy, what happened?

Alan C. Lowe: In terms of the emails that they claimed were deleted and lost?

Jack Kabrel: Yes.

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah. That was going on when I got here, and there had been claims that emails have been destroyed by the White House during the Bush administration. And again, I'm not Mr. Technology, but essentially, as it was explained to me was that it pretty much was how those emails were stored, and where they were stored, and what buckets they were in, and so forth. There was a resolution of that with the reconstructing of those lost emails from where they were found, and that was all done, litigation on that was resolved. And so, I think that was kind of symptomatic of coming into this new age of, how best do you preserve these, and how do you store them, how do you access them. I think a learning thing for the White House and for us, but at the end of the day, we have them, and we have a lot of them.

Jack Kabrel: Are there any stories that surround that incident, or other controversies in your ten years, or a little bit less?

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah. I'm trying to think. No more around that. I mean, that was pretty straightforward, frankly, of the people who have much more knowledge trying to sort out exactly where those emails had ended up, right? And then, going through with Gary Stern. We worked a lot with NARA's general counsel. I've known Gary for many, many years, and Chris Runkel has been one of my closest friends, and a great adviser. Working with those folks and their staff to try to figure all that out with the technology people. So, no other really big things around that. I'm trying to think of other controversies. Gosh, I hate to act like I'm controversy-free. That's boring. Nothing big, in terms of actual.

Jack Kabrel: Well, the reason why I say that is because Bush's eight years could be considered controversial by many.

Alan C. Lowe: Well, yeah, of course.

Jack Kabrel: A lot has happened. I was just wondering if any of that has transferred over into the library?

Alan C. Lowe: I appreciate your clarifying, but at this point, I'm way too NARA-centric here, so you're right. First of all, I think there was some controversy here when I first arrived that some faculty members at SMU had opposed the library being here. And I think you're going to find that, pretty much anywhere in the country, no matter what the political party there will be opposition to these institutions sometimes. I think that this really comes from a misunderstanding of what we're about, and not understanding, I'll try to say this in a humble way, of what we bring to a community. I think we bring a lot to a community. And luckily here, the vast majority of SMU faculty and supporters and people in this area understood that it's going to be a good thing to have the Bush Library here, no matter if you're a Democrat, Republican, Independent, whatever. I considered it a big part of my job when I got here to reach out and kind of dive into the SMU community, so that whether they were a supporter or not a supporter, that they understood, "Here's what a presidential library really does, and here's why I think it would be good for us to be here, and how we want to work with you guys, and how I want to be helpful to you guys." So, I really immediately started working with the management of SMU, and faculty, and going out and speaking, either in classes—I remember, I went to the home of one of the faculty members, and he brought in a bunch of current and former faculty to hear me talk. And it was constantly going around with that, trying to say, "This is a good thing." Right? And I don't want to overstate the level of opposition. I mean, they were already going to raise the sign, the building; we knew it was going to be here. Almost everyone I talked to there was supportive, but there was still kind of this small set of folks who were upset about it. I think what I did, what I thought other people did, getting out in the community, that pretty much went away. So, in terms of the broader controversial nature of the Bush administration, obviously, huge debates during the administration about a whole range of things: response, the war on terror, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Katrina, the financial crisis. I mean, you think about what this guy had to deal with over those eight years, an amazing number of difficult issues, challenges. And of course, as with any presidency, people disagreeing with what he did, how he did it, and some people very much agreeing with it. Ours were magnified, I think, because the issues were so huge. So, to me, that was a great opportunity to talk about history, and to talk about how presidents, how leaders, operate. And I will give President Bush and his folks a lot of credit. As we put the museum together, he was at the top of the list, saying, "You need to talk about the controversies, and the different viewpoints." Now, of course, sometimes, presidential libraries are treated unfairly, or hit on the head for being temples, and only saying good things about their presidents. I always say, first of all, I liked having a President in the room, and telling me what he was thinking. And I think it is important in these museums to say, "We are the Bush Library. And here—the President thought these were his priorities, and the big things he accomplished then—that informed us as we put this museum together." But at the same time, with something like our Decision Points data, for example, we also show the other sides of those debates. So, in Decision Points--I don't know if you're familiar with that. You go in—it's like a theater—and you have this individual computer screens, and a big screen up front. And you had to go in and choose from one of four scenarios with your compatriots in the room; majority rules. And you choose from either the invasion of Iraq, the surge in Iraq, the response to the financial crisis, or the response to Hurricane Katrina. Four big, controversial topics. And after you choose the scenario, on your individual computer screen, you choose to get advice from different sources. So, it might be the Pentagon, or Congress, or whatever. And in each of those sources, two different actors come up and give you completely conflicting advice. So, if you pick up the surge, one of them will come up, say, from the Pentagon, and say, "This is why you need to send more troops in, and you need to do it right away, and here's how it will work." And then, the other actor will come up and say, "In no way you should send more troops, and here's why." So, that way we’re able to, basically, kind of frame those debates, and people have to disagree or agree. Along, on the way, you get flashing news bulletins trying to sway your opinion. At the end, you make a final decision. You see how the room voted, what option they picked, and then the President comes up and says, "This is what I did, and why I did it." So, you get to see those debates, but also, more fundamentally, you get to see that any leader has to take in a lot of conflicting information. They have to sift through it, they have to apply their principles, and make decisions. You may vehemently disagree with those decisions or you may love them, but at the end of the day, that leader is responsible for doing it. So, it teaches a lot of lessons and takes on those controversies. There was another film we did with Secretary Rice about some of the controversies of the War on Terror rendition, and that kind of stuff as well. So, we wanted to kind of address that straightforwardly. And certainly, in terms of our archives, free access to that, our educational program is always nonpartisan. So, I think we do a really good job of not being political, and talking about those pretty contentious issues that were around during the Bush administration.

Jack Kabrel: So, you feel that in your experience with presidential libraries, that for the most part, they're an honest assessment of history?

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah, I think it is. And you know, it's always the balancing act, because you do want to not make it a hatchet-job, right? So, you don't want to go in and say, "Well, we're going to only show the critics." Right? You don't want to do that, but at the same time, you want to show that there were critics, and that there were debates on these certain issues. So, it is kind of a little bit of a balancing act in exactly how you do that. I think we were really very much helped here by having a really terrific museum design firm called PRD. They always brought us, made sure we were at a good space in terms of how a professional museum exhibit should be put together, right? So, we can have discussions, "Well, how do we do this? How do we approach this issue? Do we approach this issue? What do we do? What's going to make for a good visitor experience? How does it tie into what we do with education?" All those things. And Dan Murphy and his gang there at PRD would help us kind of move down that road in a very good, professional way. But again, I've got to state, and I'm not just blowing smoke here, that our Foundation friends who ran those meetings wanted a good museum. They didn't want people to come in and say, "Oh, it's just a glorification thing." Obviously, we do talk about the accomplishments of the Bush administration; we do talk about his priorities. But at the same time, I think we do it in a very professionally, I'm trying to think, not in a museum way, but in a professionally-designed way that I think people on both sides of the political aisle can respect.

Jack Kabrel: So, you would feel that in all of your experiences in the presidential libraries—and you don't have to be specific here. That there was no real political pressure to water down or to alter points of view?

Alan C. Lowe: No, and I will stay away from Nixon on that, though. The whole Nixon issue through the years has been difficult from the ongoing litigation that was going on from the seventies to the early two thousands; the difficult relationship that resulted from that, understandably. And I think I always try to put myself in other people's shoes, seeing both sides of those debates during the years, and of course, how you deal with Watergate. So, I will put that aside. I have great respect for our director over at Nixon; I have a great respect for the Nixon Foundation. Aside from that, I think there's always an honest effort to put together a good museum. I remember, at Roosevelt, as we thought about, "In the future we're going to redo this museum…" So, they finally did. It took a while to get all that together, but it's great, from what I hear; I haven't seen it yet. But you know, I thought, how do we best approach the issue of, say, FDR and the Holocaust, right? And how do we deal with that now? Because there obviously are different opinions on that. I'm not sure, exactly, how they ended up doing that. But that is a discussion you have to have, and you have to think about among yourselves, with the Foundation, with the families and so forth, "How do we do this in a way that will be well done, that can kind of talk about that there is a discussion around this topic without being just a hatchet job that some people might want it to be?" So, I haven't really, in all my time, I think that you do work closely with the foundation. I think that what happens, oftentimes, is it doesn't matter what party you are; if you're a very partisan person and you see, okay, so let's say you're a very staunch Republican, and you see a Democratic presidential library open, it's almost like a reaction nowadays, that you're going to go in and just assume that it's a temple to that Democratic president, and vice versa, the other way. And some people are just going to be that way. I've kind of had to learn in my career just to accept that there's going to be a certain percentage that's going to think that way, when I know that the process behind it is not like that at all, and we just kind of have to stand on the record; stand on the fact that we have people coming in here who are Democrats, who love this museum, and know that we've been successful. And if you have detractors, then you just have detractors, and hope that they will see the light.

Jack Kabrel: How much does a revisionist history play a role? Like, you were saying about FDR and the Holocaust, or maybe any controversy on?

Alan C. Lowe: I think you have to think about, particularly, with the older libraries, I think it's important when you go into those redesign efforts to see, what is the current state of scholarship, what are the top things that historians are talking about now, what new discoveries have been made in your archives, or others that might inform it. But that doesn't do away entirely with the old. I mean, I think revisionist history is only new until it's revised, right? So, I think you don't want to jump on something that is some new fad or something; you want it to be good, and scholarly, and supported, and so forth. You know? But if it is, I think you have to incorporate it into your thinking, about how do you talk about whatever this topic is? So, I think it's important to that. And I know, any good museum designer is going to do that. They're going to do the research and realize these are things that we need to at least be thinking about.

Jack Kabrel: As we're wrapping up here, I'd like to just ask you any final thoughts on your current position, and anything else you'd like to state about your position as director of the George W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum?

Alan C. Lowe: Sure. Well, I guess I would be amiss if I didn't say that it's been a very special experience to work with George W. Bush and Laura Bush. They're very good people, very supportive of what we do here. It's very interesting to work with a first lady who had been a teacher and a librarian, you know? So, she brings to us a set of skills that are pretty awesome. And getting to know them the way I have, it's one of those great experiences NARA has allowed me to have, to kind of get to know these people that led our nation, and to see that they are people. I think it's very easy in this day and age, in really difficult political times, to almost dehumanize our political leaders in some way, and forget that they're human beings. These guys have shown me they really are, they have a great sense of humor, they have great sympathy and empathy, and are just really rock-solid people. So, I guess that's just the final word, that I've been very, very blessed to be able to get to know them, and their family, and their associates. I won't have that opportunity at Lincoln, obviously, but there, at least, like we have here, they have a really good Foundation. And again, those lessons from Baker and from here about how to work with those foundations are going to be valuable to me up there in Illinois.

Jack Kabrel: Without a doubt. Just to go along the line that you were previously on, are there any stories or anything else you'd like to see on the various presidents, or individually, with them in the cabinet, before we leave this topic?

Alan C. Lowe: Well, you know, I've gotten to know some of the folks here who work for George W. Bush. Andy Card is a really great guy; Josh Bolton. Karl Rove has been around here quite a bit. Really funny guy; I think I love his sense of humor. Margaret Spellings, you know, was Secretary of Education for President Bush, and head of the foundation here. And I really grew to like Margaret so much. She was a lot of fun to be around, but so smart, and really did a great job at the Foundation. I could not have asked for a better partner over there; and again, a great sense of humor as well. So, we got along perfectly. I'm trying to think, who else? Secretary Rice. So impressive; has been here a lot, did a good amount of research here, too, has been involved in the Bush Institute, and is such a good and kind person. So, getting to know her a little bit. Let me think. I shouldn't—my brain is starting to get a little fried here. Those are a lot of the people we worked with who are part of the Bush administration. And I'm sure I'm forgetting many, many more. But it's, again, interesting to see the kind of teams these folks put together, and the team that President Bush put together. Mrs. Bush had great people. I mean, Anita McBride, one of the first people I met during the interview process, has been very engaged with us; just a great person, a lot of fun to work with as well. And then you see, some of those guys come down. Brian Cossiboom is the Vice President for Operations here. He had a role in the White House, and brought a lot of knowledge to this position, but it's just been a rock for us. Someone I talk to, pretty much every day. And again, it may be a constant; you may see this interview as, I like to laugh. I do. And I think a sense of humor, Baker helped reinforce this for me, a sense of humor makes the day go by much easier, and resolve issues. And Brian and his compatriots over there know how to laugh, for sure, so it's been a lot of fun working with him.

Jack Kabrel: And seeing forward to your next position, what lessons do you think that you've learned that you could take back?

Alan C. Lowe: Gosh. You know, the Lincoln Library is an awesome place already. I think I'm going to go up there with a real commitment, first of all, to education, and seeing what we're doing now, and what more we can do. I've become a real believer here in the role of simulations, you know, and in kind of that interactive-type, immersive experience and education; seeing if they're doing that already, and if they're not, what can we do at Lincoln. Really, a real passion for education. I think I've learned a lot here in museums; especially, the exhibit program here has been very active, and I've been very engaged with that with our curator and our Foundation. I think I've learned more and more each time we've done an exhibit, on what works and what doesn't work, and how to really engage people the best. So, I think I want to go up and take a good look at what we're doing there with special exhibits. They've done some great ones already, but what we can do even better. Programming, same thing, how important it is. Springfield is a pretty small community, but they have a great buy-in from the citizens of Springfield and the county. So, what can we do even better to reach them, and to reach other areas around there and around the state. And then archives, they have a terrific Lincoln collection, but it needs to be grown, and we need to think about, "How do we do that?" Then, lastly, I know I'm a broken record, but the partnerships and dealing with the foundation. So, how do we maximize that partnership? How do we work together to raise money and to support the programs that kind of form our core mission together? So, I think I take a lot of what I've learned here and at Baker, and hopefully, we'll put it to good use up there.

Jack Kabrel: Great. Are there any last words or stories you would like to add to your interview before I have one final question?

Alan C. Lowe: No, just that I appreciate NARA. Again, I came into this agency in '89 not knowing a whole heck of a lot about it, and certainly, not knowing anything about presidential libraries. I will say that I believe deeply in what presidential libraries do, and all range of our missions. I'm really proud of what the libraries have been able to accomplish around the country. I think we're a real force for education, for the preservation of history, and I know I'm a bit biased, but I think we're a great part of the federal government. So, I'm very, very proud of what we've done. I'm very appreciative of all the opportunities I've been given.

Jack Kabrel: And then, my final question is, going back to 1990, 1989, when you were standing there in front of Ronald Reagan all by yourself, if you had the opportunity again, what would you ask him?

Alan C. Lowe: I think one thing is, I would say, "Why did you decide to go into public service? What was that final thing that pushed you into that arena?" And I think that would be a really interesting question to ask him. I've studied his life a lot, and I know that transition from being an actor, very involved in the Screen Actors' Guild, obviously, so very political in that regard. But what made that step to the Rendezvous with Destiny Speech, and the decision to run for governor. I think that would be really fascinating to talk to him about. The other, I think, and I've read more and more, obviously then, but since then, about his views on the Cold War. It's a great debate. Did Reagan win the Cold War? Did he not? My good friend at SMU, Jeff Engel, Center for Presidential History, is a big fan of H.W. Bush and Gorbachev, and he thinks that those two things together really did it in. And I'm very much, the more I study Reagan, you see the consistency of his thoughts on the Soviet Union, and on the Cold War, and how to win that Cold War. Right? So, you can go back and see a progression of thought, and then an implementation of that thought. So, obviously Reagan has detractors; he has supporters. I put myself in the latter. I'm definitely a supporter. And I would love to talk to him about, "When you were president, how did you, on a day-to-day, or a month-to-month basis move your vision to reality? Because Reagan presumed that this picture of, "Here's how we do this," and then you see it being implemented, but his specific role is still being debated. Was he there day by day, saying this and that? Or was it just setting him a vision and these guys implementing it? Or, some detractors would say that they didn't even implement it; they did what they could, and then, really, Gorbachev was the one who really ended the Cold War. That debate is so hot right now. I think it would be interesting to sit down with him and say, "Tell me, sir, how exactly did this work?" So many things like that. I think he's endlessly fascinating, and obviously, one of the most important presidents of the 20th century.

Jack Kabrel: Well, Alan, thank you very much. I really appreciate our time, and you are a living example of somebody who started out with a vision, to reality; from Reagan to Lincoln.

Alan C. Lowe: Thank you so much. I've enjoyed it. Let me know if you need anything else, and come see us in Illinois.

Jack Kabrel: I definitely will, and if there's anything you want to add to the record, by all means, I'll drop everything to get it.

Alan C. Lowe: You're too good. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, sir.