Transcript of National Archiv es History Office Oral History Interview
Interviewer(s): Jack Kabrel
Interviewee(s): Alan C. Lowe

Jack Kabrel: This is Jack Kabrel. Today is June 16, 2016, at 1:30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. I am conducting an oral history interview with Mr. Alan C. Lowe, via an audio recording. This interview is part of the National Archives and Record Administration's History Office Oral History Project. Welcome, and thank you for doing this interview, Alan, and we appreciate your time and your history.

Alan C. Lowe: You're very welcome. I've been looking forward to doing this, and I appreciate being part of it.

Jack Kabrel: And I just want to say here, before we get into the interview, that reading through your resume, it's indeed an honor to be able to interview you, because you represent every reason why I came into the National Archives; because of the history, and the love of history, and your track rising up from an archivist in the Reagan Library to what you've become now, what you're becoming even further on is truly admirable, and something that I think this interview will show to people. That's kind of what I want to take out of this, is to show how you can come up from that position as an archivist, all the way up to who you've become now. And thank you very much for this opportunity.

Alan C. Lowe: Well, thank you. I appreciate those kind words, and it has definitely been a pleasure and honor, so I'm glad to talk about it.

Jack Kabrel: Great. Can you just give us a brief, in a few minutes, an overview, the arc of your career with the National Archives?

Alan C. Lowe: Sure. I began as an archivist, as you said, at the Reagan Library in California in 1989. I just finished getting my master's degree in history at the University of Kentucky, and started at Reagan, if I remember correctly, in September of '89. They just moved the materials out there earlier that year, and the temporary facility there in Los Angeles, prior to the completion of the permanent facility up in Simi Valley. So, I was there from '89, up until January of '92, and I, at that point, had the opportunity to come back to be part of the Central Office of Presidential Libraries at the National Archives; first of all, in Washington, D.C., then in my later years, we were at College Park. So, I started there in January of '92 and ended up serving Central Office until, I believe, January of 2003. So, there's almost exactly 11 years there in Washington and College Park. For part of that time, I also served for just under a year as acting director of the FDR Library up in Hyde Park. We were between directors, and they needed someone to help oversee it in that interim, and asked me to go do it, which was a really interesting experience. Now, I left the National Archives in 2003 to become the founding executive director of the Howard Baker Center at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville. I never thought I'd leave NARA, but that was a great opportunity to start up a center, and to work with Howard Baker, which turned out to be a phenomenal experience. Again, I never thought I'd leave Howard Baker, and then I got the call about the Bush Museum, I think it was about late '08, December of '08—and throughout a two-week period went through a series of interviews and was asked to be the director of the Bush Library, and came back to NARA again in April of '09, and where I am now until just a couple weeks from now, when I go up to be the director of the Abraham Lincoln Library up in Illinois. That's my career, in a nutshell.

Jack Kabrel: A remarkable career.

Alan C. Lowe: Well, I've been very fortunate. I told the historians, too, that when I started at Reagan, I didn't know a whole lot about the National Archives. I certainly knew even less, frankly, about presidential libraries. I had, like I said, just finished my master's degree at Kentucky, and wasn't sure what to do next. I thought about going for my doctorate, but I put a resume out, and one of the places I put it out to was the National Archives. And I got a call back one day and it was a guy interviewing me for an archivist job at Reagan—Rod Soubers, who later would become my supervisor there. We spoke for about a half an hour. At the end of the call, he said, "Tell me about why you want to work at a presidential library." And I said, "It's been my lifelong dream to work at one of the presidential libraries." And he said, "Fantastic." And essentially, at that point, he said, "Report out here in September." It was a little bit of a different process back then. And I said, "Fantastic." And I hung up the phone, and said out loud, "What the hell is a presidential library?" I didn't even know what they were at that point. I just agreed to do something. But I knew about the National Archives, obviously, and I knew it sounded like an amazing opportunity. So, about a month and a half later, we were in L.A. and I grew to really, really love the presidential libraries, and the Archives, what they're all about.

Jack Kabrel: That's really interesting that in some ways, you kind of fell into it, right?

Alan C. Lowe: I did. I absolutely did, yeah. Like I said, I might go and get my doctorate; I might go and do whatever. I just went into our career center there, in Kentucky, and thought, "Well, let's look at the private sector, and let's look at the public." I thought, "Well, you know, the National Archives might be the place. I have my master's in history. We'll just put one out there." And I didn't really think much about what would happen, and then got a call back, I remember, from St. Louis and just in general, and then Rod called me about the Reagan library, in particular, then we were off to the races. So, I never expected to go from Lexington, Kentucky to L.A., but that was an amazing experience going out there. I made a set of friends there, too, that have stayed with me throughout my entire career; just really wonderful people. A lot of us, just out of college, starting there, and a really good experience to start up the presidential library, like I've done here, as well. And to meet Ronald Reagan—I met so many interesting people through the years, thanks to this job, thanks to this agency. So, I've been really, really blessed in that regard.

Jack Kabrel: Very good. Let's take a step back, and maybe if you can kind of work our way up from where and when you were born, and then your educational experiences, and maybe some of how that kind of helped you in your career. And then, we'll work it through the Reagan Library experience, and FDR.

Alan C. Lowe: Sure. Sure, sure. Well, I was born in Paris, Kentucky. That's in central Kentucky, not too far from Lexington, in Bourbon County. So, I grew up there on a farm. We raised tobacco and had cattle; for a part of that time, a dairy farm as well there in Bourbon County, with another farm in Nicholas County. So, very much a farm life growing up. I went into the University of Kentucky in 1982 thinking I was going to be a doctor. So, I tell that to new students, and all the students that I speak to now, it's good to have some passion, but also have some flexibility. Because when you get there, you're going to keep growing, and you're going to realize, you know, "Here's where my passion really is, rather than here." After the first semester at Kentucky, I realized that to become a good doctor, I needed to understand chemistry and math, and so forth, and I simply did not. So, I had one of those moments where I stepped back and thought, "What do I really love?" I grew up in a family that was very focused on history and politics. I still remember sitting around the kitchen table, and listening to debates about Vietnam, and everything else. That was really what we focused on. I remember, also, as a kid going to Abraham Lincoln's birthplace, and to the hermitage with Andrew Jackson in Nashville. So, we were always kind of history-oriented and sort of politically—my mother was very active in the Democratic party there in Kentucky, and I would go hand out flyers with her, and work at the polls with her, and all that. So, always very focused on that, and I realized that's where my love was. So, I switched to the history department at Kentucky, and I got my undergraduate major in history and minor in political science, and really, for most of that time thought I would go into law. I love studying the law as well, and I thought I'd go and get a law degree. But as I went on, I realized how much I loved history. So, I also applied for graduate school there. And I was very fortunate, between undergraduate and graduate school, to be selected to go to Oxford University for a summer and study British foreign policy, thanks to the English Speaking Union. It was a great program. I went for a couple of months to England, and that really cemented in me the fact that I love political history and science. So, I came back. They offered me a wonderful fellowship in Kentucky my first year, so I went back to Kentucky and started my work on my master's. I also became a teaching assistant at Kentucky, and realized that I loved teaching as well. I really did like organizing lesson plans, and interacting with the students. And so, I did that and got my master's in 1988. And then, that’s when the unknowns began, I didn't know exactly what to do next, and Kentucky was so good to me. I worked at the Margaret I. King library while I was in Kentucky, and got to know the role of libraries in that regard, which was great. And they let me kind of continue on the spring semester there in '89, even though I had no idea what was next. I was technically in their doctoral program, but I pretty much knew, at that point, that I didn't want to get my doctorate right away, but I didn't know what the next thing was. And that's when, as I said earlier, I thank goodness I lucked into the job at the Reagan Library, and that really kind of set my life's course at that point. So, definitely, I grew up in a family where history, politics, were very much a big part of the discussion every day, it seems like, so I think that's what runs underneath all of it.

Jack Kabrel: And as well as following your passion, too. It seems to be something that also helped you, too. Not also, necessarily, thinking of monetary gain or something like that, but following something that you really like to do.

Alan C. Lowe: That's something that's not certainly easy to do. And I understand now, as a parent, particularly, my father saying to me, "Tell me again why you didn't go to law school?" Because that is a much clearer path to financial independence. But he was very proud, as my mom was too, what I was able to do with that degree. I've got to say, Kentucky as a school really did a great job preparing me for what I've done; in terms of critical thinking, and research capability. In so many different ways, I think it was a great school. I stayed very involved with Kentucky. I'm on the History Department Advisory Committee group there. And another group there that works with small-town issues, and community issues, I'm on their board as well. So, I'm really proud of Kentucky. I think they've even gotten to be a better university since. They were not only good in terms of what they taught me, but they were also—what's the word—supportive. So, this kind of group of professors and other people who I felt like were always watching out for me. The program in Oxford, for example. I was young and stupid. I had no idea that program even existed. And two professors there came and said, "You need to apply for this. You'd be perfect for it; you need to do it." And sure enough, I got it, but I never would have even known about it if not for them. So, I owe Kentucky a lot.

Jack Kabrel: Were there one or two professors that were like mentors to you at Kentucky, or at Oxford? Question one. And question two, do you feel an obligation, in a way, on your part since there are so many wonderful teachers, to be a teacher to other young people growing up?

Alan C. Lowe: I think, yes. The answer to that one is absolutely, yes. And just going back a second, to the mentors, I think I've been so fortunate, throughout my entire life, to have people helping and mentoring me, right? So, I mean, obviously, my family; my mom and dad, truly amazing, always there. When I got to Kentucky, I mean, in high school, great teachers. Mr. Turner, I remember, was a great history teacher. And looking back now, I realize Mr. Turner and Mr. Stuart in high school helped keep that passion for history there. In college, I had an amazing adviser, Girard Silverstein, particularly in graduate school, but also undergraduate, was always there. And I was very fortunate, for part of my time in grad school, to be a teaching assistant for him as well. And he was this, at that point, older guy seen as very tough, but my gosh, he was so good to me. And I remember, one semester I was a teaching assistant along with another young lady and she had to leave midway through the semester, so I inherited all of her sections as well, which was kind of overwhelming. A lot of work, you know, to teach and grade all those papers, and everything. Silverstein was so supportive. I remember, at the end, I went over to his house and he gave me a pair of cuff links, and a note to thank me. I still have that to this day, because it meant so much to me, because I really, really respected him. Also, Jeremy Popkin was a great teacher there in Kentucky, and has stayed in touch with me ever since. George Herring as well. George is a great American historian. So, I only had a couple classes with him, oddly enough, focused on European history when I was in Kentucky. But George was always there as this kind of icon in the department, but also, a really nice guy; always really supportive, and George has stayed in touch as well, over the years. And so many others—Hobson, and Al Passetti—they had this really great core of people who were great researchers, and great professors; but also, just really great people. I was very, very fortunate in that regard. I know I'm leaving out people. I'll feel bad. But those are some of the big ones. And then, certainly, at the National Archives. When I went to Reagan, you had people like Rod Soubers, who taught me a lot and realized that coming in, I didn't know, really, much at all about being an archivist, and kind of taking me under their wing. So, when I got back to Washington, so many people, but right away, Pat Borders. Pat had started the Johnson Library. When I got to the Central Office, he was deputy NL at that point, Deputy of the Office of Presidential Libraries, and became a close friend, and really great mentor. Later, David Peterson was head of the Presidential Libraries, and taught me a ton. And we had a lot of fun together, too. But he was, again, one of those guys that a lot of people thought was extraordinarily gruff. You know, he could be a pretty tough guy, but you see him and you just—brilliant, supportive and so good to me in so many ways, and helped me really develop in my career. In terms of other directors, Richard Norton Smith was always a great mentor to me throughout the years, you know? He had been at so many different libraries. And Richard became a good friend, and offered tremendous advice through the years, and was very helpful. When I decided to strike out and go to the Baker Center, he was extraordinarily helpful in that regard as well. So, I could name—Duke Blackwood at Reagan has been a terrific friend, and someone I learned a lot from over the years, as well. So, they're all over the place. I have been very, very fortunate at the agency to have—Sharon Fawcett is someone in that category as well, who took me under their wing, taught me a lot, and has been such a good friend and mentor to me. So, anyway, a lot of people. And yes, I do feel a responsibility. I love to teach, and I want to try to, in a way, impart whatever lessons I've learned. And God knows, I don't always recognize those lessons, or put them into effect once I have learned them. But particularly, I love working with university students. I did at the University of Tennessee, and certainly here at SMU, to do what I can to help. I just, right before this interview, had a going-away lunch with my mentee at Parrish Episcopal School. They've asked me to be part of their Leadership Institute while I was there, and I mentored a young lady there who was just a phenomenal, phenomenal student. And this being, in some small way, being helpful to her and to other students here has been really, really a great source of happiness for me over these past few years.

Jack Kabrel: I think the term "paying it forward" could be used here.

Alan C. Lowe: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I just love being able to say I can have some type of positive impact for this person, and pass on something to them that could be useful. And that makes me happier than anything, to see them being successful and kind of following their passion as well. Certainly, I do that every day. I have a beautiful and brilliant 14-year-old daughter. Sometimes kids don't want to listen to you, but she does. She's a great student. Really, really, very dedicated student, and I try my best to say, "Hey, sweetie, these are things I've learned through the years, and these are things, maybe, you should think about." And in multiple ways, I've tried to do that.

Jack Kabrel: Let's see. Maybe if you could describe your first day on the job. We'll take it from there. Your first day on the job at the Reagan Library, and just take us through some of your accomplishments, and then we'll move onto your job at the National Archives.

Alan C. Lowe: Well, I can never forget my first day at the Reagan Library, because it was complete and total insanity. We were moving out from Lexington, Kentucky to Los Angeles. And a person there had helped find an apartment for us, kind of sight unseen, right? So, Kathy and I went this long drive across the country in this old Ford Ltd., or whatever it was; it barely made it there. And we drive in L.A. Very early that day, we first get there, and we had driven in from somewhere in Arizona, so it was a long drive, and we get to the apartment that had been rented for us, and boy, was it a bad apartment; it was not good at all. Kathy, my wife, said, "I am not staying here even one night." So, as soon as the Reagan—it was in the Reagan Project—they were in the temporary facility there in Los Angeles. We drove in. I met Biff Henley, who was then the director of the library; introduced myself, he swore me in. It was great to meet all of them. And I said, "You know, I have to probably have to go this afternoon, and find a different apartment." And he said, "Hop in the car. We'll go to lunch, and we'll find an apartment." So, Biff, thank God—I didn't know anything about Los Angeles—drove us around the neighborhood, and we found a different apartment. So, that day we drove in from Arizona, I got sworn in the job, I broke a lease and signed a lease for another apartment, and told the moving company to go to a new place all within, like, an eight-hour period. It was insanity. But it showed me that the National Archives was a caring place, because Biff understood that I was in a bit of a fix, and helped fix it for me. So, the great day I got sworn in, and then the next day I came back, and only a few of us were there at that point. A couple people had come in from Washington, and my friend Greg Cumming, who has remained my best friend since then, started that day with me. I remember sitting in our cubicles, trying to figure out, "What do we do next? How does this place work?" And trying to sit down with Rod, and see, "This is what an archivist does. This is what presidential library does. This is what we have here." And thinking, "Hey, this is going to be a really good gig." So, yeah, a really crazy first day there. And then the first day in Washington, I remember back there in '92, to the Central Office. It's a different deal altogether, in that now I'm dealing with a lot of administrative issues. So, I've got to learn about facilities, and personnel, and contracts, and all these things. So, Pat—who I mentioned earlier, but who became a great mentor—the very first day I'm sitting at my cubicle, and he walks up and drops this huge packet on my desk. And he said, "That's a contract. Read it and learn it." I thought, "What have I gotten myself into?" But I did. I read it, and made sure that I tried to be the best prepared person in the agency for all those things. And really, it was the quick course on how the agency, and specifically, how presidential libraries run. What it takes to open the doors every morning. I always say, when they made me director of the Bush Library, when I was acting director of FDR, I had already been to the classroom ever, because Central Office, we dealt with every issue imaginable. And how do you fix those things? How do you serve the libraries? How do you make sure they're accomplishing their mission, and you're helping them out to do that? I dealt with those issues day in and day out. It really was a great learning experience. So, that first day, a little overwhelming trying to figure all that out; but again, I had great teachers like Pat to get me there.

Jack Kabrel: Did anything that you had accomplished in the Reagan era of your career help you with what you were facing now?

Alan C. Lowe: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, because that Archives—and also, I wasn't in the museum, but seeing the operations of the museum and seeing what they were starting to do in education, I realized, "That's what it's all about, right? That's what we're supposed to be supporting and helping." So, the Reagan Library gave me a really good, excellent knowledge of what our mission is, and really in-depth understanding of the archival part of it, right? And so, when I got back to D.C., I always saw my goal there of helping them do that; helping them accomplish that mission." So, I understood it better than I ever did if I had just been plopped down in the Central Office. It, in some ways, it gave me a perfect beginning for it. And you know, every now and then, they pulled me into some archival issue, which I liked; I wasn't in it much, but some specific things. But I remember when the JFK Assassination Review Board was bringing in materials from all the libraries, I did some second review for them, just because I still had my clearances, I still knew how to do archival things, and that was kind of cool to be part of that. So, every now and then they'd throw me a bone as an archivist, to help with something like that. And then also, one of the neatest things I did at the Central Office was help with presidential moves. So, I helped move Bush 41 and Clinton out of the White House. And having that archival background, I think, was really good for that because I understood the importance of the records, and inventories, and all that kind of stuff.

Jack Kabrel: How involved were you at the Reagan Library in actually getting the Reagan Library up and going?

Alan C. Lowe: So, when we got there, we were in the temporary facility down in L.A., and we helped plan the move, that was one of the big things. I remember I was part of a team there to help plan the move. And we all worked on it, from that temporary facility up to the permanent facility. But also, that was one of the first times that I got kind of pulled into the other side of the operations, because Rod would assign a couple of us to go up and help when they were building the facility to do X, Y, and Z. So, that's the first time I remember I met Steve Hannestad, who was a legend at the National Archives, and facilities, and security. And Steve came out, and I remember I was assigned with Greg to go with Steve and to do different facility things in the building under construction. And again, that gave me taste of, you know, as important as this, there's more to this than processing records, and doing references, and so forth. This is kind of the structure underneath this that makes it all work. So, I was involved in that review with him. I remember helping plan out the move of the staff member and office files, and trying to figure out how best to arrange them in the new facility. So, trying to make sure we had the storage areas right. But that was my main involvement, as I recall. My brain is not as good as it used to be, but that's the main thing I remember, in terms of helping him make the move from L.A. up to Simi Valley. And of course, the really interesting thing about Reagan is that's the first Presidential Records Act library; so the first time that the PRA went into effect was at Reagan. So, being part of that kind of first archival team, trying to figure out, "How do we implement this new act?" Working with the Central Office, and particularly with Nancy Smith, another legend at the National Archives, and being a young archivist trying to learn how to do that, looking back on it, it was very interesting. At the time, it could be sometimes perplexing, right, trying to figure out how to do this. And they did a really fascinating thing.

Jack Kabrel: Interesting. Did you ever meet President Reagan and Nancy Reagan, or any other Reagan cabinet?

Alan C. Lowe: Oh, yes. Absolutely. President Reagan several times. I remember, the first time was the Christmas party in '89, he always would come down to our little events like that, at the temporary site. Very nice guy. Would love to tell us stories, particularly about Hollywood. He didn't ever talk any current politics, thankfully, but he was really very generous with his time with us. I just loved him dearly. I went to his house once. I remember, we went with Greg. They said that the president had some items to send to the collection—artifacts. And so they sent us up with this van, and I thought, "Well, I'm going to go up there and stack. Members are just going to hand us the stuff, and we'll drive it back down to the temporary facility." Greg and I got out of the van, and started walking towards the front door, and Reagan opened the door and said, "I've been waiting on you fellas." And we spoke to him for a good half hour, I remember, in the living room, just about the library, and just telling different stories. One of the things that—I was probably about 25—that was kind of overwhelming. To think, "I'm standing here with Ronald Reagan, talking." It was really a very, very neat experience. So, you know, a few more times he came down. Mrs. Reagan came down to some of the events as well, at the temporary facility. So, yeah, got to meet them a great deal. And other members of the cabinet—I know Ed Meese was there quite a bit. Who else? I'm drawing blanks now. I know Maureen Reagan was around quite a bit—during the construction, in particular, I remember her being there. Very supportive. I remember, just the other night here, as I'm preparing to leave, President Bush had a little going away dinner for my family. And I said to him, "You know, looking back on this, I've had so many great experiences thanks to being part of presidential libraries. Who would ever have thought that a young guy putting up tobacco in Kentucky would someday be having a dinner with the president?" You know? It's just a really awesome experience. And it all started with Reagan.

Jack Kabrel: Wow. That's quite a collection of stories. Do you have anything else before we leave Reagan, and the Reagan Library? Any other stories that you'd like to tell us, or topics you'd like to cover?

Alan C. Lowe: They make fun of me here, because I've told this story a few times, but it's very true. The first time I met President Reagan, at that first Christmas party, after we had had kind of the photos with him and all, he came in and was just talking to all of us in our little breakroom there. We formed this semi-circle around him, I remember, and he was just talking about this and that. And suddenly—I don't remember why—the crowd kind of broke up, everyone doing different things, and I'm standing alone with Ronald Reagan. And again, I'm really overwhelmed; I could not think of anything to say. And finally, I'm looking at him, and he's looking at me, and finally I said, "Mr. President, would you like a cookie?" That's all I can think to ask him. And from then on, my mom, and family, and friends made fun of me because all I could think to ask was if he wanted a cookie. But my defense always is, the man did want a cookie. We went and got a cookie together, and he was obviously hungry. So, I think it might have been the right question, but people have made fun of me for years now, that that was the first thing that I could think of to ask him. But very, very good experience there, and again, this kind of core group of people that were a lot of fun to work with, but very dedicated to what we were doing, putting that place together. So, anyway, a great experience.

Jack Kabrel: Wow. What another great story. Thank you, Alan. And we'll move on from there, onto your time as a senior management analyst. And you were talking a little bit about it. Tell us a little bit about the move from L.A. to D.C.

Alan C. Lowe: Sure. So, I was very fortunate to be hired for the Central Offices. It's something I knew I wanted, and I was very fortunate that when I started making inquiries, is right when they had a potential opening. So, I did that. I remember, we drove home to Kentucky from L.A. and stopped on the way, and got to see folks, and then arrived there in January in D.C.—in January of '92. We drove into town. I remember, it was a horrible ice storm, but we made it. We lived in Alexandria, Virginia; found a nice townhome there to rent, and eventually purchased a townhome just off of Van Dorn Street. I went in. At first I was there on Mahogany Row, in Archives I. That's before Archives II was built. So, that's where my cubicle was, there, in the Office of the Presidential Libraries suite. Again, my portfolio grew over the years. Back then, the agency was smaller. Certainly, Central Office was a lot smaller than it is now. There were a few folks who worked on the archival side. Nancy Smith was over that. John Fawcett was head of the office when I got there, and Pat Borders was his deputy. On the administrative side, it was me, Jackie Wood—who had been there many, many years—Michelle Cobb, and that was pretty much it. There were three of us. Looking back, what really gave me the opportunity was to get my hands in a lot of everything, and to learn a lot. So, I always say to folks, what Michelle and I did a lot was volunteer for things. So, we'd go into meetings—she'd have been in meetings with the heads of offices, because there were so many things to attend to and only a few of us, right? So, it was kind of a great classroom for me, and a great way, frankly, for me to move up because the management at the agency got to know me, I learned a lot. And so over time, I was very happy to be able to kind of climb up the GS ladder a bit there, and get even more responsibility. I'm trying to remember what year we moved out to AII. I don't remember exactly what year. I know it was after '96, but went on to A2, to the office there. So, I think—I don't remember exactly when we did that, but it was in the late nineties that my office transferred out onto AII. The first year that I was in NL—that was in '92—at the end of that year was when H.W. Bush lost the election. And so, really interesting part about that first year is I was detailed to the White House the day after the election, along with a team of other National Archive employees to help box up the White House and prepare for the move to College Station. Typically, when we helped plan the Clinton move, that was something we planned for over a year. But for Bush 41, we just had November to January to plan and execute it. So, I was one of the busy bees over at the White House, boxing up a lot of stuff, working with other NL employees and with military folks in the Pentagon to box it up, get it out to Andrews and then down to College Station. Really, an experience I still think about a lot. Again, it taught me a lot. It was a little chaotic at times, but really, really neat experience.

Jack Kabrel: So, in some ways, your experience goes from actually packing the boxes, all the way up to high-level administrative work.

Alan C. Lowe: That's right. And they're making the inventory after inventory of our packed up boxes, to later direct one of the places. And one of the funny things is, I remember—hopping back to Reagan for a second—when I was there, Warren Finch came up as an archivist. He had been in Central Office, and wanted to get out in the field, and he came out as an archivist. I guess I'm trying to remember how I first talked with Warren, but I guess I had talked to him in Central Office at the phone. And when he came down, he asked us if he could stay with us a few days, at our apartment, while he found a place. So, he essentially lived in our living room for three or four days while we found an apartment for him. And you know, we'd go out and drink a beer and everything, and we were just amazed that all these days later, that Warren and I are the directors of the two Bush libraries. So, you know, kind of came full circle from that first day having a beer together, trying to figure out what the hell this place is all about, to both being the directors for the Bush libraries. Pretty cool.

Jack Kabrel: There's some lessons to be learned there, for people that will be listening to this in the future.

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah. Right? And you know, the friendships, and networking are all very important too, right? So, just being able to reach out to people, it's been a very cool experience in that regard, too. Again, some of the best friends in the world are the folks that I've met at this agency, for sure.

Jack Kabrel: I think that's the value of working at headquarters as well.

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah.

Jack Kabrel: The regions don't necessarily have that opportunity as much, and I think in the headquarters you had that opportunity, which is definitely something that I recognize.

Alan C. Lowe: I think that's very true. I made great friends at Reagan, but going back to the Central Office, I met so many more people and so many more people in different areas, you know? And I think just the nature of the job, I had to learn a lot about—at Reagan, I hadn't thought anything about procurement. In Central Office, I had to really learn about Federal procurement; not always the most fun thing to learn about, but I had to. And as part of that, I met a lot of people. I met a lot of friends. So, yeah, it's very interesting, for sure, to be a part of that Central Office operation.

Jack Kabrel: So, your time at the FDR Library as Director coincides with your time as a senior management analyst in College Park. How did that come about?

Alan C. Lowe: Well, thinking back, I know Verne Newton was the outgoing director at FDR. And Peterson was head of the office. And I remember, they were having discussions about, "What do we do? It's going to take a bit of time to get a new permanent director in. What do we do?" And I remember Verne taking me outside AI one day for lunch, and we sat down, and he said, "What would you think about being an acting director?" And I thought it sounded like an amazing opportunity. And I think he spoke to David, and David agreed that it would be a good way to go. So, next thing I know, I'm flying up to Hyde Park—a wonderful place. If you haven't been, check it out. It's just a really, very neat place. And a great staff. I was very fortunate; kind of, at that point, a relatively young guy going in to try to make sure that we ran the ship right until we got a good permanent director in. But some of them had been there 20-plus years. So, just to go in to learn from them, to support them where I could. At first I would go up—I think I remember a couple weeks out of every month, and then it got down to maybe a week out of every month, and then by the phone—but just making sure that I was doing whatever I could to help him out. Not only was that a transition period between directors, but also, we were just getting into the somewhat difficult beginnings for the planning for that visiting center that's up there. And so, just trying to get that on track, and to move it towards the finish line, finally, it took many, many years to do. It was an important part of what I wanted to do up there as well. So, that was that. They always joked that I did that work concurrent with my other duties, which meant that they didn't pay me any more to do it, but I do recall getting a nice little bonus at the end, which was appreciated. But really, the biggest payment to me was learning. I learned a lot, and got to know a lot more people, really wonderful people there at FDR. And I also learned—I would go, for example, and visit Marist, which is nearby, and one of their partners. So, I learned a lot more about how you can work with an academic partner. I worked a lot with Bill Baninoval and the folks at the Eleanor Roosevelt Institute and I realized even more—I knew it before, but I realized even more how important it is to have a good relationship with your foundation, and the potential that you can unlock when you have a good working relationship with them. So, that was just one of the many lessons that Hyde Park taught me.

Jack Kabrel: And you worked with the National Park Service as well.

Alan C. Lowe: Yes, that’s exactly right. And that was part of some of those ongoing discussions—looking back, that was a very long ongoing discussion, I think. When I got back in '92, the first trip I took was to Hyde Park, to go up and begin discussions about a visitor center, and I think we dedicated that visitor's center in '03 or '04. So, it took a little while from that first discussion to figure out, "What do we want? Where are you going to put it? How are you going to fund it? How is it going to relate to the park service? What does the Institute think?" et cetera, to get from here to there. But yeah, working with the Park Service, had a couple different Park Service directors while I was in Central Office, and then later as acting director. Again, figuring out, "How do you interact best with them? What are our strengths? Where should we be working together to serve the customers better?" that kind of thing. That taught me a little bit about visitor experience, too; thinking about, "well, let's just not think of it as, "Well, we're an agency, they're an agency." But overall, how are we serving people coming to this site. So, they're coming here, seeing us, seeing the home. How are we going to make sure the visitor center is a really, really good part of that? And also, at that point we just started discussing what became the renovation of the FDR Library. So, I had to learn a lot, and not always the easy way, about how you deal with things like historic preservation issues, right? Because FDR had a hand in designing that facility, so you had to be careful, from a cultural preservation perspective, to do it right. But at the time, we knew operationally that things needed to be changed, and the museum needed to be updated and all that. So, it taught me a good amount about, "How do you work with the historic people? How do you work with the Park Service? How do you work with different parts of the National Archives to see how you kind of move that kind of stuff forward?"

Jack Kabrel: In June of 1998, when you were offered this position as interim director of the FDR Library, do you feel that it was overwhelming for you, or do you feel that by throwing you into the water it was the only way you were going to learn how to swim?

Alan C. Lowe: I don't mean to sound cocky, but I did not feel overwhelmed. I felt a great sense of responsibility, and I did have to prioritize certain things.

Jack Kabrel: But you were ready?

Alan C. Lowe: I think I was ready for it. And again, that was some great teachers and mentors, but also, I knew that the staff there was good. And certainly, when I started going up there, that was just confirmed that they were a very good crew. So, I knew I wasn't running the place by myself; that I could rely on people like Lynn Bassanese and others to make sure things were going well. And I didn't feel overwhelmed. I think occasionally I remember coming back to Central Office thinking, "Now, how exactly am I going to get this budget together now? Because I've got two hours to do it, rather than two weeks." But no, I really didn't feel overwhelmed because I thought, at that point— I guess I had been in Central Office six years at that point. I thought I had a good handle on what was going there, and what libraries did overall, so it was a good experience.

Jack Kabrel: Yes. I feel that the staff being well-trained and being together for a long time gave you really fertile ground for you to learn other things.

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah. That's exactly right. And I think, also, knowing that I had been involved with them, in terms of discussion with the visitor center, I knew some of them personally already. And also, I had good connections already with Bill vanden Heuvel, and his folks at the Institute, the private side of the operation. So, I was a known quantity to them. I knew them, so it wasn't like I was going into some mystery situation. I knew some of the folks, and I had been there several times in my capacity at Central Office. I knew the facility. So, that made it easier as well.

Jack Kabrel: Great. Alan, moving on, is there anything else you would like to say about your time as senior management analyst and interim director before we move on?

Alan C. Lowe: There's so much that in eleven years could be done in a few minutes. I think that kind of, over time, more and more, learning about how we can do things better. I know, when I was in Central Office, when we first started talking about the whole idea of management controls, and making sure that we're giving the support we should be giving, and that we're calling out issues where there are issues, and doing it in a supportive way. I think that, again, looking back on those 11 years, the most interesting parts—well, obviously, we were meeting a lot of people—but then doing things. We redid the facility standards for presidential libraries. I mean, you really saw us coming in, starting to get ready to come into the 21st century, because I remember, when I first got back to Central Office, there were maybe five or six pages of standards we would hand to foundations when the libraries starting being built, and saying, "This is what we need," but we realized, and certainly Steve realized that we needed to be doing more in that regard to make sure the building we got at the end was the building we needed. And so, that whole facility standard redo that I know is still an ongoing thing today started when I was in Central Office, and people like Steve Hannestad and our security folks, and all that, had a huge part in putting that together. And it was really interesting for me to be a little part of that, and again, learn a lot, and to see this is the agency that I think is doing a better job of working with our private foundations and saying, "This is what we expect. You don't have to guess what we want anymore. Here is what we need when you're building these beautiful new facilities for us." So, every day was interesting for sure, and again, a great classroom for me.

Jack Kabrel: Two questions before we leave this area. And you just touched on one, I think, that we can ask now. Which is, how did the growth of technology do in the period of the nineties, of computer technology? How has that changed from the earlier days, even before you joined here, and by the time you left this period of your life?

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah. I think the biggest response of that is that electronic records has changed everything. So, when I was a young archivist at Reagan—I'm trying to remember the number—somewhere over 40 million pages of paper records. And then, of course, our audiovisual department had a big collection of photos, and so forth. But they're completely dwarfed by what we have here. We have 70 million pages of paper records at the Bush Library, but a billion pages of emails. So, everything has changed for the archival world, and preservation, of course, thankfully. But how do you process that much stuff in a timely way for our researchers? Still the biggest challenge, I think, we have here in the archival part of what we do, of how do you really tackle that challenge going into the future? So, we have a great crew here, great archivists, and they process a good amount of records every year. But even if you would double my archival crew, or triple my archival queue, we'd still have a larger queue because of the size of the electronic record collection. That certainly wasn't anything you had to think about at Reagan. So, this is really the first library—Clinton, I think, has 4 million emails. I'm not sure how many pages that is— I'm not going to guess. But I know here, we have over 200 million email, and that totals, I think, just over a billion pages. So, really, a fundamental difference in the nature of our archives, and the challenges those archives present in providing access to them.

Jack Kabrel: I noticed, and this is an add-on question to that one, an answer as best that you feel capable of doing it, but do you feel that NARA could have done a better job in electronic records?

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah, I think NARA did a very good job in setting up the RA. So, I think that when Clinton left, and when Bush left, there was an ERA to ingest all of this information, right? So, I give great credit to NARA and working with Lockheed Martin and others, to have this system put together so we don't have to worry about, "Where is it going? How is it being preserved?" Where it could do better is, is thinking about, how do we assist archivists in processing these records now that we've got them? So, we said we can provide them electronically. But I said we're still figuring it out, but I think we'll get there. Where I came from, I'm trying to preach a little bit on this, I come from a spot where I'm not Mr. Technology; I will admit this. But I just know, looking at what my staff is going through and the challenges we face here, my basic view is, National Archives needs to do a better job at figuring out how we provide technological tools to archivists to be able to eliminate the need to view every page, line-by- line, for some of these requests, at least. So, in other words, if my archivist here has a request, and say, as part of that request, we realize there are 100,000 pages of responsive emails, right? In my dream world, they'd be able to put those 100,000 pages through a filter of some type, and that filter would say, "You really only need to review, line-by-line, 80,000 pages because these other 20,000, we know, don't have any closers or exemptions in them." I don't know how we get from here to there. I understand the concerns about that. You don't want to miss national security or personal privacy. It's also difficult, I think, for archivists sometimes to distinguish the exceptions. So take, particularly for example, the confidential advice closure that we had for the first 12 years at PRA Libraries; very difficult to define and implement. But I really think if we don't take a very aggressive stance, and try to figure that question out, and try to figure out what kind of technology would lend help to archivists, then, I think, we might be in a little trouble. The size of electronic collections are only going to grow monumentally. I'm sure the Obama Library will have five or six times whatever we have here. So, it really gets to the point of absurdity, almost, saying, "Well, the answer is to give you more human beings," because that won't matter at some point. You will never staff them with that many people, to read that many pages, in a year. So, I really think to technology,I don't think the National Archives has gotten to that point of really. I'm not in any way trying to speak poorly of anyone. I know there have been a lot of challenges, and I know this won't be an easy thing to do. But I think, really, we need to do, maybe, a better job of saying, "Here are a few possibilities. We really need to run them, and test them out, and figure this out before it gets any worse." So, what we face here, then, is when the first day—I think the first week or so that we were open to FOIA—you know, there's a five-year period where we're not open, and then after five years, anyone on the planet can submit a Freedom of Information Act request. I think in that first week or so, we had more pages requested here than requested at Reagan in 25 years. And that's because the responses request had all those email pages, right? So, that is only going to get worse, and we've got to figure out a technological aid to help archivists respond in a timely manner to those requests. So, that's what I think. We've got to get there, I think.

Jack Kabrel: Very good. Thank you. And then, the next question can also apply to your kind of position. Politically working, and this, again, answer it the best way you want to, if you want to, but I know it can be very sensitive to work. Political environment can be very sensitive in the libraries, working with the Foundation. Did you find it to be a very sensitive, kind of like a catwalk?

Alan C. Lowe: I really haven't, and I'm being completely honest with you in that. I've found, you know, when I was speaking just to Bush here right now, when I first went up to interview and talk to NARA, and then go over and meet with the President, that was really interesting. I interviewed for about two weeks. You know, I met with the White House Chief of Staff, and Mrs. Bush's Chief of Staff, and a few other really interesting people in the White House. But my last interview was with the President and Mrs. Bush in the Oval Office, which is really interesting, to say the least. I had a great conversation. At the end, he said, "What do we do next?" And one of his staffers said, "Well, if you agree, you just need to say what you think." And President Bush said, "Let's do it," and that was kind of it. So, the next thing I know, I'm on the way to Dallas. In those meetings, I met with the then-head of the Bush Foundation, ambassador Mark Langdale, who became a really, really good friend. I said to Mark, "When you look at presidential libraries, the successful ones…" think they're all successful, right? But, "The ones who have had continual success are the ones that establish good working relationships with their foundation. That's the bottom line.” And in the instances where you've seen library management and foundation management fighting, that's when those libraries are not as successful. So, I don't ever want to be in the position where we are fighting. He fully agreed with that. Also, though, one thing that Mark and I—and then later Margaret Spellings and I, when she became head of the Foundation—we all agreed on was that we have some common goals, and we are roommates in this building. So, we have to work together in a multitude of ways, but we also have to understand, we're also different institutions, right? So, they are a private institution. They have a set of goals, some of which are ours, some of which they do on their own. I'm a Federal agency. So, sometimes we overlap. Other times, I have to say to them, "This is a Federal rule." Or, "This is what the agency needs to do in this regard." And as long as we respect each other, and we understand that we are different institutions, but we have to work together, we're in great shape. I've been very fortunate here in that the heads of the Foundation and the people they've hired understand that. We, from day one, have been talking a lot together. I meet constantly with the Foundation, and the result has been a great relationship, a ton of support from them, and no battles. So, that's been a real blessing. When I was at Roosevelt, great relationship with Bill vanden Heuvel, and the Institute, same thing. And I learned, I had a board of directors out there, and a somewhat similar situation of this, keeping those communications up, and understanding that sometimes they're going to have to do what they do, and I'm going to have to do what I do, but most of the time, we can work together. So, I work with a living President and first lady. I do want them to be happy with what we do. I do want to listen to any comments they have about X, Y, and Z; but at the same time, I do represent a Federal agency, and everyone has worked within those parameters and understood it. So, I really haven't had to do a lot of political advancing; just making sure I understand, I keep in mind where they're coming from. You know what I mean? I can't just go into it and say, "Well, I'm a federal guy, and here's the way it's going to be." I try to understand, "Where is the Foundation coming from on this issue? What, in terms of their priorities and their goals, would be driving them to want to do X?" And so if I understand that, then I can understand, "Okay, well, I've got that goal. I know my goal is this. Where can we meet together on this, and accomplish what we're both trying to accomplish without having a fight about it?" So, putting myself in their shoes has been a big, big key part of how I can try to make this successful here.

Jack Kabrel: Taking us up to January of 2003.

Alan C. Lowe: Yeah.

Jack Kabrel: Simple question, and speak at length about this as long as you would like. What did you bring to the Baker Center for Public Policy, and what did you take from it?

Alan C. Lowe: Sure. I think, you know, when I went down to talk to the folks in Knoxville about the Baker Center, in large part, what I presented to them, they were trying to figure out what the center was going to be, and I said, "Here's a possible vision for it." And it was based, in part, on what I had learned from presidential libraries. So, I said, "This can be a wonderful center for history and learning, and for research, right?" So, I said, "We can do public programs; we can do educational programs. We can have a museum. We can build tremendous archives, and we can support research projects." Right? So, those are the big buckets. And all of them were directly based on what I had learned all those years at Reagan Central Office and FDR. And they liked it. They said, "That's what we want to do." So, I was very fortunate in that regard, that they actually liked the model. So, I think I brought that ability to say, "Here's the vision for that place." I love Senator Baker, and they wanted to honor Senator Baker. And they knew, in general, we want to talk about the history and the making of public policy," but beyond that, they really hadn't thought it out a whole bunch. I don't mean to discredit them. I mean, just really, they had gotten a grant from Congress, and I'm glad they made that initiative. But beyond that, the specifics would still be ironed out. So, I was able to come in and say, "Hey, here's the way you could do this." And they said yes. In terms of what I've brought away, it's almost impossible to say that in any quick fashion. I learned so much. Let's see. Number one, the importance of partnerships; being able to work with University of Tennessee, with community partners, with national and international partners, you can't go it alone. So, particularly when you're building a public policy from nothing, which is what we do, being an established institution, being able to find those good partners to help you move forward in your mission—absolutely. I think I brought away a better understanding of the world of research and academia. I worked a lot with professors there; with students at Tennessee. Learned a lot about that. Related to that, I learned a lot about education. We made a separate part of the Baker Center what we called our Center for Civil Engagement, which is all about civil education, and getting particularly younger people—but particularly, everyone—to engage more in their communities. So, in addition to trying to help social studies, and civics, and history teachers, we also did things like workshops on how to run for public office, those types of things, which really had an impact in our area and around the state. On a social studies commission for the state, we did all kinds of really interesting studies about governance. So, we really made education a key part of what we did. We had a Baker Learning Community. We had wonderful Baker scholars. Among students, it became a very competitive program. These wonderful students, I always joked with them that I knew they were going to run the world somehow, so I would be nice to them now, so they would be nice to me later. Really phenomenal young men and women. And that showed me, again, that the power of these institutions to do good, to work with young people, help them think about what they want to do with their lives, and they give them a good base of understanding, in that respect, about how our Government works, and the history of this nation, and how they can be part of moving it forward. So, I learned that. I learned a lot about fundraising at Baker. I hadn't really done that too much before, but we had to raise $18 million for our facility; we had to raise money for ongoing programs, conferences, and so forth. And I learned a lot about development, relationship-making fundraising there, for sure. Gosh. There's so many things. I learned a lot about Howard Baker, that's for sure, who was a great man, and he taught me a ton about the importance of civility, working across the aisle with people, being able to laugh. He thought humor was so important in getting things done and keeping your sanity while you did it. Just a good man, through and through, and a great example to me of how you can be a good person and excel. You know? Just really rock-solid integrity. I often think back to the first time he talked to me about his role in the Watergate Committee. And he went in right as he was appointed Vice Chair of the Committee. He met Nixon at the old executive office building. He went in there thinking that it was Democratic dirty tricks; that he was just kind of being set up in some way. And he said to Nixon, "Hey, you know, I've always been a supporter. I want to make sure this is fair." He said Nixon acted very oddly. And at the end of it, Baker said, "Well, you know, I hope my friend John Mitchell doesn't have any issues with this."