Transcript of National Archives History Office Oral History Interview
Interviewer(s): Daria Labinsky
Interviewee(s): Rick Blondo

Daria Labinsky: We are recording. My name is Daria Labinsky, and I am doing a NARA oral history with Rick Blondo, and the date is April 29, 2021. And this is part two of an interview. Okay. Hi, Rick.

Rick Blondo: Hi. I'm glad for the opportunity to continue. What I wanted to do, at least initially here, is to speak to some of the points that I raised in the video interview. First off, I had mentioned recalling the first person that I had to relocate during the renovation of the National Archives building and, to the best of my knowledge, that gentleman's name is...Bob Matchette. That's M-A-T-C-H-E-T-T-E. Bob was a very long-time member of the staff and retired some years ago. And I'm seeking ultimate confirmation from somebody, from him personally, or who can communicate. And if I get that, I will coordinate with whomever is shepherding the interview in the near future, you know, this oral history in the near future, and augment that as well. But I'm 95-percent sure it was Bob Matchette. Secondly, the question had come up about who was the first member of the public to register as a researcher at the National Archives at College Park. I haven't been able to quickly find what I had seen a month or so ago here at home, mementos from my work. So I don't have that name handy. Two suggestions would be: it may not be available because of privacy concerning researcher identity. But, if the person was amenable to being interviewed about it, that would have come out during the 1994 planning for the time capsule that got put in when the formal dedication took place in May 1994 of the building in College Park. And I would think [NARA Historian] Jessie Kratz may have access to information as far as you know, copies of what's in the time capsule, so the person's name can be seen there. My recollection was he was a historian from California. I think, maybe a college professor. And Daria, you have to remind me, the first thing we were talking about before we went live with the recording. It was the third point. Oh, documents that I had made reference to regarding Eisenhower during World War II. In my brain, I had merged two documents, both inadvertently. Both of these are available on the National Archives web page. I don't know if there's a way to include a link to that in the transcript of this, but that might be helpful. The documents in play were his first report regarding the progress of D-Day. It was very early in the invasion, and it was his view to share as much as what was known to the powers that be above him. And in my brain, I had recalled incorrectly, as it happens. In that same document, he made reference to taking full responsibility, if the invasion failed. So, in reality, that "I take full responsibility"-type-document was a handwritten note, which was apparently done the day before D-Day. Again, it's also on our web page. It's dated July 5, 1944. And I suspect he purposely put July instead of June 5th when he wrote it, so if the note fell into enemy hands, you know, it would not give away the plan. And the powerful, poignant thing at the end of that was if any blame attends to the attempt, this is in the context of if it failed, he's personally responsible. "If any blame attends, it's mine alone for accepting the responsibility," which I thought was jaw-dropping. But it speaks to the character of the man. So that's the point I wanted to relay just to kind of tie up the earlier interview. So my next question would be, do you have anything that you want to further discuss while we're still connected?

Daria Labinsky: I don't remember. Did we talk about the records management oversight?

Rick Blondo: You mean my work with that? Yeah, we did.

Daria Labinsky: We did, okay. And I had one question: You mentioned when you were talking about [some]one being in AI, you mentioned–did you mean to say Trevor Plante?

Rick Blondo: I did say Trevor Plante, didn't I?

Daria Labinsky: You said Trevor Howard, I think.

Rick Blondo: Oh my gosh. You know, I didn't get into the weeds, but my medical condition involves a liver issue, and that can affect your memory. And that clearly was going on. I think Trevor Howard is an actor. [LAUGHS]

Daria Labinsky: No, that's why I was like, "I don't think that was the guy's name." I didn't have any more questions, but yeah. Go on. If you have other stories, that's good.

Rick Blondo: Okay. Thank you for calling that to mind. By all means, Trevor Plante is fantastic. Let me think if there's anything else. Oh, you know, in the interim, since we last talked, I went through a really fat file I have at home of "thank-you" letters and cards and notes that I had received throughout my entire NARA career. But many of them had to do with the opening of College Park. And we had, I think, this may have been at the end of it all, Daria. I can't remember if the recording was on then or not. But it had to do with the difference between when the building first opened and the connection to researchers that took place in Room 1000, the consultant Archivist's office, and how, over these decades now, things have changed. And I would clearly say for the far worse, because those letters that I got were from regular people who were overwhelmed to walk into that palatial building and assume, correctly, that it was filled to the gills with records or would be in the near future. And they had no idea. They just had a research need, and they were hoping to find something useful. And what happens in Room 1000 is attentive listening, the idea of valuing their research topic, no matter how mundane or really, to use the word neutrally, silly it may be, compared to, you know, an esoteric treatise on something deep and profound. If it's their research need, it's something that they're trying to connect with. And that rapport that was established really was valued by people. In effect, they felt intimidated. And in short order, they realized they had a friend. They had an ally. They had somebody who was listening. Many of those letters that I got were just on that point, that the federal government has this rap where you can't get information, and people are disinterested, and blah, blah, blah. And that was the exact opposite that they found there. And that goes back to what I was saying, that the whole concept of service is in my DNA. You value people, and you connect with them in a way that shows that you care. And if you have the information, you provide it right away. If you don't, you find it, and you share it in short order. I did not mention that when the building first opened, the whole idea of the internet was brand new. And Bob Coren, C-O-R-E-N, who was my supervisor above me. He wasn't physically in the office, but he oversaw the program. He's the guy that personally had me in mind to be the first person that would come over to that building and then augmented, over the years, with two others. And Bob created this thing where if you got an email, and the question was on Point A, he has written, like, several sentences or a short paragraph that speaks to Point A and, you know, replicate that 30 times. So if you're calling about World War II service records, or emailing about World War II service records, or any other specific thing, you can literally, in your response, press a code number and then that paragraph appears in your response. And I was flabbergasted to be able to see that. And that resulted in some truly pro forma language on our end. But the recipient didn't know that, and it spoke to their specific need, and they were deeply impressed by that. Literally, you know, if the timing worked out, the same day that their message came in, we'd be able to respond, if not in very short order, thereafter. And that generated so much comment about how thrilling it was and reassuring to have civil servants working for the federal government truly connecting with their needs and them personally. The equivalent to that is the State of Maryland. I had mentioned I was a state archivist, not the State Archivist. I worked for the State Archives a total of about eight years. That included an initial internship. And a lot of people, their only connection to the state government was the Department of Motor Vehicles. And, invariably, that was a horrible experience. You know, a huge waiting room, "Next," go up, and you get this kind of bored response. The person has been on their feet for hours behind the desk, and it's like, you know, it's a hassle. And when people came to the Maryland State Archives, same thing. They were amazed at the TLC, and the personal care and attention that they got. So what's currently in play in the initial connection to researchers at Archives II in College Park is not that any longer. Those specialists are up in the research rooms, and their job in Room 1000 is just get them registered, show them where the lockers are, and send them on their way. And I think that first opportunity to connect and reassure is lost. And it shouldn't be. I have no idea what it's like in our facilities across the country, but it's obviously on a much smaller scale. And I've always assumed that one-on-one connection was always what was done at the various facilities.

Daria Labinsky: How do you think it compares to AI?

Rick Blondo: Well, Archives I...let me think about that for a second. The difficulty is I had never done research myself at the Archives I building, and so I didn't wear the shoes of the brand-new researcher. And the first things that are coming to my mind are the whole new scenario of what the renovation put in, which is the research center is right behind the front desk in the lobby, when you went there. So first off, when the building opened, what was called the central research room was several floors up from the lobby. You had to take an elevator to get up there. So you connected directly with archival staff members who were up there. But there is an information desk in the main lobby, and there's always been a concern about bringing things in that could pose a threat to the records. So, I don't recall, or I should say, I don't know how they handled that, things like coats and what have you. I know during the renovation, NARA put in a locker room at the building in Washington, just like Archives II was designed with one. So that post-renovation of Archives I took care of all that. So speaking to that point, you walked through the security area and, in your line of sight, right behind the guard's desk, is where you want to go, and the door is open, so you can see right into it. So you can easily walk in. You're greeted by people right there at an information desk, which is like the equivalent of Room 1000 in the College Park building. That was, I think, the concept that came into play. And then from that point, you're directed to the lockers, which are all part of the suite there, and then you're directed to where you want to go. There's a microfilm research room. There was a research room for other certain types of records. It's escaping me right now what that specialty room was for. But still, you had to go up to the central research room on the second floor to access the lion's share of the holdings of that building. And that was what's called a "clean environment." By then, you've dropped off your attaché case and coat and umbrella. It's all in the locker. So when you walked into that room, same scenario. You walk right in. There's a central information desk there, and you're connected with people who know what they're doing and connect with the researchers. I don't know. It's a people skill as far as putting people at ease. So, I think it depends on the person who's there on any given day. But I know by matter of—and I would hope and assume that it's all, you know, a positive experience for everybody involved. But I know when Archives II was conceptualized, the people who were selected to staff Room 1000, the initial people who were selected, had people skills and had deep knowledge. And, you know, it's just like you can hit the ground running with whatever question comes up. And if you didn't know, if you needed to get some more information right then, you knew who to call. And it worked very, very well about who to call within the building, you know, a staff member. You know, actually, every once in a while I'd get a telephone call or somebody comes in and they don't need the National Archives at all. They need something else entirely. And that calls to mind something that just came to my memory. Once it became known by word of mouth that there were informed, knowledgeable people, that this magic phone number that you can call and talk to a human, which is the main line of Room 1000, there were regulars who called. And one of them was CBS News. And I grew up in New York. And, you know, I'm well acquainted with the national news media. And, you know, at least a dozen times over several years, they called and they needed a reference. They were looking for blah, who should they contact? On and on and on. And throughout those conversations—most federal agencies had a history office. It's not just public affairs, the office that they want to talk to is very often the history office. And so that was great. And then I remembered when things started getting in the hot water for Dan Rather, who was their lead anchor in the evening news after Walter Cronkite passed away. And he did a story on the CBS Evening News pooh-poohing the concept of federal history programs. And I saw that, and my mouth dropped. I said, "Wow." They use that stuff, so why in the world would you throw it under the rug, and sweep it away? And then it dawned on me, or maybe they were trying to fact-find and, you know, all those calls about who to refer to and blah, blah, blah, many of them were history related, again over several years, and not every experience goes well. So I silently wondered whether that was not what it appeared to be, but possibly a setup to get fodder to feed a storyline that they had in mind.

Daria Labinsky: Yeah, that's not uncommon.

Rick Blondo: Yeah, yeah. It's a tool that's used. And so I was not pleased when I saw that. So again, I ultimately came to the conclusion that maybe all those calls were not what they appeared to be. Even though if you were looking for the kind of answers they were trying to get, that's what you would have done, you know.

Daria Labinsky: Right. Yeah, I have a feeling the pandemic is going to make things even harder for researchers. There's going to be more regulations and things, because even if people are vaccinated, you don't know if people are really vaccinated. And, you know, there's still, I don't know, I just think they might have more rules that might make it even harder, especially for, like, walk-ins and stuff off of Pennsylvania Avenue. Well, the other avenue, not Pennsylvania. The one behind it. Constitution Avenue. Yeah. Walking in.

Rick Blondo: Well, the thing that comes to my mind on that is there are these, you know, I got my second Moderna vaccine last week, and you get a card. But now I've learned that there's phony cards out there that you can get. And so maybe that isn't the answer. At the very least, they can do a forehead temperature scan. But that's not foolproof either. I see your point. And the first thing I thought of was spacing for researchers. And at College Park, there's plenty of space to do that, assuming the research numbers are controlled. At the building in Washington, the central research room, those researcher desks are relatively close together, but you can always skip every other one, that kind of thing. So I think there is a way to address that to a degree. But you raise a very valid point. Now, you got me wondering if there's any concerted effort going on within the government as a whole, because I would hope for any federal building that people want to come into, especially buildings that the public comes in for, looking at exhibits like the Smithsonian buildings, et cetera—.

Daria Labinsky: Yes, I agree. I actually went to the Smithsonian in November right before they shut down again. It was timed tickets, very few people inside. But the other day, I went to a museum in Georgia that had timed tickets, and it was, you know—and I've been vaccinated, but it was really crowded. It was uncomfortably crowded. So, you know, they have to do a better job of crowd control, I think.

Rick Blondo: Well, in the Archives's favor, we have an ample guard force to help control that. But as you've seen from the media, if you start, in effect, countering people, in other words, getting in their face with details, that can explode. And so you raise a very intriguing question I have to think about.

Daria Labinsky: Okay, is there anything else you'd like to talk about?

Rick Blondo: Give me a moment to think. Just a moment.

Daria Labinsky: Is there anyone in particular you want to talk about, like coworkers that you enjoyed working with or, you know, that kind of thing?

Rick Blondo: Well, I mentioned many of them in the earlier interview. There are so many archivists who specialize in different areas that I admire. If I name two or three, I don't, inadvertently, want to dis the 10 or 12 that are in the same league. You know, to say the Archives has a history of hiring intelligent, informed, friendly people, not everybody by any means, but, you know, a good number, and what strikes me right now is how that could be mitigated by a system change, and let me know if I've alluded to this in the earlier one, where a researcher came into the Still Picture Research Room and started complaining to the person at the control desk. And it turns out the person at the control desk was not an archivist. They were there simply to monitor how the records are being handled to prevent theft. Do you recall if I had mentioned that last time?

Daria Labinsky: No, that doesn't sound familiar.

Rick Blondo: Yeah. So this is told to me by a retired staff member who was there seeing or participating in it happening. I take it back. I was actually in the room doing some research on a personal thing. So I saw this happen. And the public researcher, the first time going to the person at the desk, was referred to this staff member who was an expert in still pictures, and she helped him nicely. And, you know, a half hour later, he had another question, and he went back to the control desk, and they told him the same thing, or you need to go see so-and-so in... The same person was on duty there, and he got ticked. It's like, you know, why are you here? You're sitting behind this desk and, you know, people would assume you're there to help, or they ask questions. And my colleague, now retired, went up to him and said, "Sir, they're there to make sure you don't steal our records," which was true. It was part of a new motif of that, and it's painful to even think about it now. This happened many years ago, but that's the coin of the realm right now. And somehow there needs to be a return or a better balance between connection and safeguarding. So let's see. As far as other people that were, oh heck, I don't think I mentioned Wynell Schamel who was an education specialist at my second Archives job. My first Archives job was at the Patrick Henry Building, 601 D Street NW. My second was in leased space on Indiana Avenue, a block from the Archives building. And then I took the job in College Park. So I never actually worked in the National Archives Building until the renovation, which was, you know, fascinating to me. So, but I've always had an appreciation for the building, obviously. So, in the leased space was the Education Branch. And I took a job with an experienced classroom teacher/archives expert on education. Her name was Wynell Schamel, and she mentored me and was very friendly, from Alabama, and, you know, just wonderful. And the big boss, the head of the unit of the Education Branch, I think I did mention this, was Elsie Freeman, who started the whole idea of primary source research, primary source documents in the classroom. That was in 1977. And the job I took was in 1992, I think. And Elsie had her office, a very small office suite. She'd always keep her door open—there were only four or so other staff members—and partly that was just to hear what was going on, just to kind of stay connected. And then every once in a while, Elsie would come out and sit down with us to, basically, participate in the conversation. And how often do supervisors do that? You know what I mean? And so that spoiled me, because when I saw that connection, I assumed, incorrectly, that that was true everywhere else. And it's not, unfortunately. So Wynell Schamel. Elsie Freeman. There were other people who came after me, most notably Lee Ann Potter. Lee Ann worked with Wynell. Lee Ann's from Texas. So another Southern, how to phrase it, friendly person and very knowledgeable. And she wound up the acting head of the education unit, when the person who had that job had retired. But she was not offered the permanent job. They brought somebody in from outside. And now Lee Ann works at the Library of Congress, and she does beyond-superb work. She's in charge of their education outreach and related things. I think it's like two or three entities, not just the education thing. And she's simply fabulous. When she still worked at NARA–and you can find some of her things, her presentations on C- SPAN. One includes Jim Percoco, who's a classroom teacher from Fairfax County, Virginia. And Jim went to Primarily Teaching, the annual summer, week-long workshop. It changed his life, just like I had mentioned John Lawler from Pennsylvania. And Percoco wound up becoming a Walt Disney Teacher of the Year thing. They did that for several years. So he got national recognition. And then, behold, it turns out that there is a National Teacher Hall of Fame in Kansas. I had no idea. And Jim is a Hall of Fame teacher. And what clicked was not just his knowledge, but his connection to primary sources. And that was fed further through his presence in our teaching institute. He also does a thing with teaching with sites, going to the actual historic sites with his classroom. He doesn't use a textbook. He uses primary source copies, visiting sites, and analyzing sculptures that are done to commemorate historical events. He's a history teacher, but he's unlike anybody else on the planet. He's still teaching and no longer for Fairfax County, but a private school in Virginia. And it's another name worth putting out there. And then the current body of NARA people: a young lady named Dawn Powers, joined NARA in, I think, 2009, and our paths crossed. And over the years, that developed into, like a mutual appreciation society and informal mentorship. And then she wound up coming to the organizational entity that I worked with. So we got to know each other more. And there was a lot of learning going on, on her end, from the type of thing I've been sharing today and last time, and on my end. She's a younger person, and she exposed me to all the tech stuff. For instance, just the other day, my wife came across a list, a statement from the Maryland State Attorney General's office, where they were looking for a librarian, like an announcement. So Janet sent it to me and said, "Do you know anyone who has a master's degree in library science and history that I can mention, you know, anybody you may want to share this with." So I shared it with Dawn, who is actually a teacher at Catholic University in Library Science in Library School, in addition to her NARA work. And within an hour, she texted me back. She said, "Thanks. I put it on the listserv." It's like, okay, that was a foreign concept to me, how you can spread something immediately, far and wide, to all her students, you know? And so I replicated that times 100. There are so many things that I learned from her about new technology and, you know, everything else. So that's a current person. And pretty much everybody else that I knew well, have retired. And so my hope is that the torch has been carried by a new generation to connect with people and their research needs. I think I alluded to something last time about—maybe not with you. This was an item on our YouTube page, where it talked about the origin of our catalog, and this was done in 2009. Do you recall if I mentioned that to you, Daria?

Daria Labinsky: No, I don't think so.

Rick Blondo: Okay, so I only saw the beginning of it. By 2009, I was no longer working directly with records, you know, historical records in use by the public. And so it caught my eye, and I started to watch it. And, you know, I'm familiar with all the efforts over the decades now to make digitally available records. And the person was saying, "The old way of finding your record was three steps." And they started going through them. It was, like, finding aid, talk to an archivist, they have to go to the stack, retrieve it, bring it to your desk, and blah blah blah. She categorized it as a three-step process. The new way is…and you start clicking away and voilà, there's the record in front of you. And it's like, well, no. [LAUGHS] It's not everything we have and not quite that easy. It's a start to put that out there. But I've looked at the NARA catalog repeatedly and compared it to the Library of Congress's online catalog and similar entities, and the Archives catalog is in need of help. Let's just put it that way. It's not intuitive, and if people go in with an expectation you're going to be able to find the record you're looking for, that's far from the case. So it's kind of sad when you think about that.

Daria Labinsky: Yeah, I know. Well, it's been great talking to you, and I'm going to stop recording, okay? Thank you for talking.

Rick Blondo: You're welcome. I'm happy to.

Daria Labinsky: Okay, we're back with Rick Blondo. It's still April 29, 2021. Go ahead, Rick.

Rick Blondo: Thanks. Another memory came to mind that I thought is worth sharing. During the renovation, I was involved, but not from the technical side as far as construction and architecture and all that. My job was to be an interface with regular people and the staff members, as well. And that latter point, I had communicated to us when we did the video. So, what I recall now is that NBC Television came out one day during the renovation as part of the Today Show to do a story on what was going on. And it wasn't designed to air live. They were just putting together footage. And at that time, in the Rotunda, the murals were undergoing conservation work. There were a lot of workers present up on scaffolding, because the murals are highly elevated above floor level. And a photograph was taken by our NARA staff photographer of that event. So what you see is me also standing up above. If I remember correctly, I may have been on ground level with the regular people, but I'm wearing my red construction helmet, because that's required in a work zone like that. And TV lights are on, and it's very bright. And I'm surrounded by people taller than me. I may have mentioned that I'm about 5 feet 4 inches, a little less than that. I assume it aired on the Today Show, because they were asking questions, et cetera. I've never had the impetus to try to find out if you can even see that stuff years later, you know, access it. But that photograph of me, in that environment, with that helmet, and at that time and place, is an indelible image now, because every time I saw it—and that's why I framed it and put it in my office—it reminded me of those years involved with that renovation. It was a remarkable time to be there. So my hope is I can take a photograph of that picture and share it and maybe somehow get it connected to this oral history interview.