William W. Thompson Oral History Interview
Interviewer(s): Wendy McLaughlin
Interviewee(s): William W. Thompson, Bernadette Thompson

Wendy McLaughlin: Um, William "Bill" Thompson, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Colombia and what were the years, Bill?

William W. Thompson: 1965 to '67.

Wendy McLaughlin: OK. And we're in Lawrenceville, Georgia. So Bill, if you can tell me maybe a little bit about your present work and family, your residence, any interests that you have currently?

William W. Thompson: OK, well, I'm still working full time. I work for an electronics company, a San Francisco based electronics company. And just as a general comment, my work has always been related to something to do with the television media or those kinds of audiovisual kinds of things. And I'm still in that field, working for a company that manufactures products that are used quite extensively in classrooms and conference rooms, and other places that have video projection systems where they show PowerPoint, VCR tapes and things like that. So I'm still in that sort of related field. Also, I've always, since I was 16, I've been a professional organist at churches. I took my first organ position when I was 16. Picked up the organ at age 13 after some background in piano, so these are sort of been parallel careers, if you will, so I still play the organ quite a bit, and that's a nice break, a nice diversion from the other work, which is mainly in marketing for SP Controls, is the name of the company. Two jobs keeps me very busy. But in addition to that, you know, I enjoy reading, gardening, music, going to plays and things like that.

Wendy McLaughlin: OK.

William W. Thompson: So I can just continue?

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, I was going to ask you to think back to the year just prior to going into Peace Corps and think back and maybe talk a little bit about your childhood, your education, things previous to Peace Corps.

William W. Thompson: Mm hmm. OK. I didn't say much about my family, should I go back to that?

Wendy McLaughlin: Oh yeah, go for it. Go back to that.

William W. Thompson: I sort of left them out, concentrating on my own experiences. Well, I'm married to a fellow Peace Corps volunteer. We met in our project. Bernadette Spanuello. I was working with teachers and I was working in the studio producing the programs. But we've been married 42 years and have two grown children and three grandchildren. Four grandchildren, they're multiplying faster than I can keep up with. Three of whom are right in Boston, so that's another reason we wanted to participate in the Archives project. So and that's about it in terms of family. I live in Lawrenceville, Georgia. Atlanta metro area, delightful place. But going back to the other question. Leading up to Peace Corps, how far back would you want me?

Wendy McLaughlin: Just like the year before.

William W. Thompson: The year before, OK. I was in graduate school at Boston University and the word had just started to get around that there was this Peace Corps project in educational television. Of course, that was already my field. I was working with the educational station WGBH in Boston and also going to graduate school part time. And my roommate, I think actually, Bill Hetzer, who was also a returned Peace Corps volunteer in that same project. I believe he's somehow found out about this, told me about it. So we thought, well, that would be an interesting thing to do. So I decided to apply and I did, and I don't remember how long that took, but at some point I was, uh. I do, I do know. I was sort of between jobs too. This was sort of a transition period in my life where I had actually returned to Dallas, Texas, to my home because I knew the Peace Corps was imminent, but I would be leaving at some point. So I took a few months to go home and just sort of wait to be called, actually.

And I might have somewhat of an unusual story, I don't know, but the Peace Corps at that time, frankly, was not terribly well organized, and they lost my, they lost some of my security background. Or never did it or something. So I'll get back to that later. But the Friday night before we were due in Los Angeles on Sunday, which is February 6th, which was my birthday, this friend of mine, Bill Hetzer, who first told me about this project, called and I was so annoyed. And I never thought, well, I should check on them, I should call Peace Corps, I should see what's going on. I just trusted them to, you know, get the information to me. So Bill Hetzer calls me at home Friday night saying, I guess I'll see you in L.A. on Sunday. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, that's when our Peace Corps training starts at L.A. State, which is now University of California, Los Angeles. It's changed names. So I called. It was early enough in the day, actually, to call Washington and find out, well am I in or am I not? And what do I do? They said, well, just get yourself there. I mean, get yourself to Los Angeles for training. Yes, you've been accepted initially into Peace Corps and we'll straighten out other things later. So I did, I hopped on a plane to L.A.

Wendy McLaughlin: From Dallas?

William W. Thompson: From Dallas. And so our training started on Sunday, I'm pretty sure, February 6th of '65. And then I had another glitch. Completed training and through the selection process, which is very different than it is now. But was accepted and then they somehow hadn't done my background check, my FBI background check. So it's back to Dallas to wait. While everybody else goes to Colombia, I'm waiting at home in Dallas until the FBI finishes the background check. So I arrive in Colombia, I don't know, not long, maybe a month after everybody else. Maybe a couple of weeks. I don't remember how far, long after that. That's how my Peace Corps career started. But we got settled and our own apartments in Bogota. I worked in Bogota because that's where the broadcast studio was. May I share just another little aside?

Wendy McLaughlin: Sure.

William W. Thompson: As far as the Peace Corps volunteers and perceptions and conflict in a sense, even though it wasn't major. The nature of our work, at least for the, well, the teachers as well. There were three. Our project was divided into three groups, the producer directors who worked with Colombian teachers and television people in the studio in Bogota. And then there were technicians that helped keep the TV sets working in the schools throughout the country. And we did broadcast, by the way, to 97 percent of Colombia at the time, which was, when I think back on the primitive technology, but compared to what we have now is really amazing that we were reaching 97 percent of the population in education, standardized instruction.

Wendy McLaughlin: Is this radio or TV?

William W. Thompson: Television, television only. So we had the producer directors in Bogota, we had the técnicos as we called them. And then another large contingent of our project were utilization workers who helped teachers in the classroom incorporate television into their instruction and how to use it and their readings and motivate the students and do all of that. So just the nature of our work, working with teachers and working in Bogota at the studios and with other professionals. You know, it was unlike other typical, what you would think of as a typical Peace Corps project, raising chickens and building bridges. So there was somewhat of a, uh, not animosity necessarily, but we were looked upon by many of the other volunteers as not true Peace Corps volunteers.

Wendy McLaughlin: Because you weren't in the trenches?

William W. Thompson: We weren't out in the campo as they called it. Well, you know Spanish. We weren't getting our hands dirty, you know, we were working in more of a professional setting. So we were quite often looked down on as not real Peace Corps. They're not real Peace Corps, they're in the city, living in apartments and living it up. But we didn't live up because we got, we were all paid the same, whether you lived out in the country with a family and had absolutely nothing to spend your money on. Or lived in Bogota, which is barely scraping through.

Wendy McLaughlin: More expensive, yeah.

William W. Thompson: With apartments and other expenses that we had. But we were all paid the same, so that was another somewhat, uh, bone of contention between the two camps.

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, if I could ask you to go back to your, uh, and I guess probably the most curious question for any returned Peace Corps volunteer is why did you want to join the Peace Corps? What was your motivation?

William W. Thompson: So my motivation was dual and not totally altruistic. As I said, I was working in television in Boston. And so when this project came up, the Peace Corps project in my field, you know. I probably would not have gone into the Peace Corps on any other project, frankly. I just. But this was in my field. It was related to what I was doing. So I figured there would be a good fit. I would be able to contribute something. So it's not that I was totally self-centered in a career setting, but I was certainly willing to do good. But the fact I was also in my field meant that I wasn't stepping out of my field for two whole years. And I enjoyed Spanish. I'd studied Spanish in Texas. I think when I grew up, we started Spanish in fourth grade. We had some Spanish then and then two more years in high school and I enjoy languages anyhow. I studied French in college. So I thought, well, it would be a wonderful chance to really master Spanish and I even studied well beyond just the basics of getting by. I continued to study on my own when I was there. I took all of the Spanish books that we had in training to continue beyond what we had in training. So I enjoyed that.

Wendy McLaughlin: So it sounds like part of it was, of your motivation, to contribute in your field in another country and then also to kind of improve your language skills as well?

William W. Thompson: Mm hmm.

Wendy McLaughlin: That's great.

William W. Thompson: And it just so happened that I mentioned that I have always been an organist. When I got, that came in, uh, very well and that was very useful as well in Colombia. Because at the time, and it's sort of still true, there were no well-trained organists in the country. I think partly because I think it was primarily a Catholic country and they didn't really emphasize, although there were lots of organs all over the place, there were very few, if any, really good organists. And so I was able to teach organ during the downtimes. As you probably know, you have quite a bit of downtime in the Peace Corps. So during school vacations or other times when we weren't doing anything in this new television, and sometimes this could be several weeks at a time, I was able to fill that time by teaching organ at the National Conservatory. And I also played concerts in Bogota and a couple of the other cities because it just so happened that the Banco de la Republica shortly after we arrived had built a new concert hall and imported a pipe organ from Germany and installed it. And there was really no one to play that. So I played several concerts and also taught in Bogota and Ibagué, which has the conservatory, down in the Tolima province. So I like to stay busy as you can tell.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah, definitely. So you mentioned. Well, let me ask you. So it sounds like you heard about the Peace Corps from your friend Bill.

William W. Thompson: Hetzer, yes.

Wendy McLaughlin: So what, as far as the process for you, what was that process like? I know the background check got a little sidetracked, but what did you have to do in order to get in?

William W. Thompson: I frankly don't remember. I mean, there must have been some forms to fill out at some point that we mailed in. But I just I don't remember the details of the application or interview process.

Wendy McLaughlin: Oh, OK. Maybe it was easier for you back then.

William W. Thompson: It might have been.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah. Well, that's good. It sounds like it probably wasn't, it was something that was just a side note. Um, do you remember, you know, back in the early sixties, you mentioned and you referred to it as a Peace Corps project. Was there any political or social kind of, you know, what was the climate back then as far as the Peace Corps?

William W. Thompson: In the U.S.?

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah.

William W. Thompson: Or in Colombia?

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, I was thinking about the U.S. and you were obviously in the early years of the Peace Corps.

William W. Thompson: Well, this was '65, of course. And by then, you know, Kennedy had been assassinated. And there was a lot of turmoil and he was still very much revered by the younger generation especially and also revered in Colombia. I mean, we would visit a home and, if I recall correctly, there would be a picture of like the Pope and then John F. Kennedy in almost every Colombian home. So they loved Kennedy, again. So it was, his legacy was still very much alive in '65. I was not really involved in politics or, you know, protests against, protesting against the Vietnam War. I'd not gotten involved in those kinds of things at the time. I'm not sure why, but I was just concentrating on my work and school.

Wendy McLaughlin: Sure. What was the reaction like your family and friends, like when you told them you were going overseas for two years?

William W. Thompson: They already knew I was crazy because I went from a small town in Texas to Boston, to Boston University to study. And so they already knew I was somewhat of a free spirit. So my immediate family, I'm sure, was not at all surprised. But when I brought my wife- to-be home to this small town, the neighbors said, well, why would you want to marry a Yankee? We have so many southern girls here. So I was always somewhat of a rebel, I guess.

Wendy McLaughlin: They expected it of you I guess.

William W. Thompson: They weren't surprised, I mean.

Wendy McLaughlin: Was there any hesitation on your part or any trepidation?

William W. Thompson: Not at all. Oh, I was so excited. I loved to travel. I loved to fly. I loved Spanish and I loved to. I'd just been to Europe for the first time the previous summer, actually, in '64. The summer of '64, I spent six weeks in Europe where my twin brother was studying organ on a Fulbright scholarship in Germany. And so I visited him and went all over Europe and I loved it. Had a Eurail pass, which I bought a 30 day Eurail pass, but nobody really checked the dates, so I used it for six months.

Wendy McLaughlin: That's great. Well, so tell me a little bit more about your training, how big was your training group and it says you mentioned that you had training at L.A. State. Did you live in dorms or what was your training like?

William W. Thompson: The training group, first of all, first of all. Very, very interesting, creative bunch of people who are just, to this day, just phenomenal. But this group of people got together at that time and they're still very close. We had, just to give you an example on the side, we had a reunion two or three years ago and more than 50 percent of our group shoed up there. And that was in Washington, D.C. So that's how close we were.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah.

William W. Thompson: And we've lost a few, very few though, considering the age group, but I think we've only lost two or three. Passed away, but it was a fascinating group of people. I think, uh. [to his wife, Bernadette Thompson] Bunny, correct me if you hear me say something wrong. Fifty seven or so?

Bernadette Thompson: I've been biting my tongue.

William W. Thompson: Sixty four? How many were in our group?

Bernadette Thompson: There were 42 utilization people. And there were about 11 tecnicos and there were probably, um.

William W. Thompson: Six?

Bernadette Thompson: Yeah. There were 11 producer directors and about six tecnicos. About 42 utilization people who were former teachers.

William W. Thompson: Right around 60, 62.

Bernadette Thompson: Yeah.

William W. Thompson: Now, of course, those were the ones that finished the project. I'm not sure, a few were, um. Peace Corps at the time had a very, very government sounding term. You weren't. You were never rejected. They had a selection process that took place, but you were never rejected. You were "deselected," which I thought was a wonderful government type term.

Wendy McLaughlin: Mm hmm.

William W. Thompson: Um, so that was somewhat nerve-racking, whether you were going to make the next cut or not.

Wendy McLaughlin: Like American Idol or something?

William W. Thompson: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that was somewhat nerve-wracking because you never really knew exactly, you know, where you stood, and they had several different times after which you could be deselected. We lived in apartments, we didn't live in dorms, but they had arranged apartments for us to stay in near campus, within walking distance. And of course, it was eight hours a day of Spanish and Latin American studies and a lot about Colombians.

Bernadette Thompson: [inaudible]

William W. Thompson: That's right, it was a motel, I'm sorry. Not apartments, there was a motel. Thanks for the correction. There were motels. So I mean, we were very busy and you had to go back to your room at night and really study. I mean, it's like being in college. You had to study and study up on Spanish and practice your dialogs and all of that. And then read Latin American history and areas studies. There were also some, we had some workshops and people would come in to address specific issues like some health and safety and just general first aid kinds of things, things that we might need to know when we were out in the field. How to take care of yourself and not necessarily self-defense, but just common sense health kinds of things, how to stay healthy. Boil the water, put the iodine tablet in it, stay away from milk and, you know, general dietary guidelines. Training was very interesting. Oh, speaking of the group again, we have one gentleman who ironically was not in production. He was not a producer director working in the studio. He was a utilization person working with teachers in the schools. Mark Berger. He came back after the Peace Corps, got into the movie industry, with sound as his specialty, sound mixing and things like that. And we had a reunion, and he lives in Berkeley. We have a reunion in San Francisco in, when was that?

Bernadette Thompson: '95.

William W. Thompson: '95.

Bernadette Thompson: It was the 30-year reunion.

William W. Thompson: Thirty-year reunion in San Francisco. He had us, the whole group, out to his home and we knew he would have won a couple of Oscars. Well, up on his mantle was like three or four Oscars for sound, for movie sound. And we saw him actually. We were watching the Oscars one year and we lived here in a different house.

Bernadette Thompson: The English Patient. He won best sound.

William W. Thompson: The English Patient. He did Apocalypse Now. I don't remember what else, but was that specifically the one we saw him receive the award for?

Bernadette Thompson: It was the English Patient.

William W. Thompson: And then it was the English Patient.

Bernadette Thompson: Cause dealing with the sand and the sound was very difficult, he said.

William W. Thompson: I forgot about that. And then he sent us. We wrote him a email congratulating him on that Oscar, and then he sent us a photograph of that, of his receiving it. So he uh.

Wendy McLaughlin: He got his start, though, in Colombia?

William W. Thompson: No, no.

Wendy McLaughlin: Wow.

Bernadette Thompson: What did Ken Wiseman do?

William W. Thompson: And another guy, Ken Wiseman, became a very talented producer director type, came back and somehow hooked up with another person in New York, and he was the original producer of Grease on Broadway.

Wendy McLaughlin: That's funny.

William W. Thompson: Yeah, he was the producer on some other Broadway shows and things. And then Bill Hetzer, our dear friend, went to UNICEF and had a career as UNICEF's communications director. And then another guy, another one of our producers, is still working actually as well. Steve Shepherd is an editor for CBS and 60 Minutes and some other programs, videotape editor. And um, who else?

Bernadette Thompson: Did you mention Steve Shepherd, Bill Hetzer?

William W. Thompson: Yeah, yeah. Steve Shepherd, Bill Hetzer.

Bernadette Thompson: Ken Wiseman.

William W. Thompson: Ken Wiseman. And those are, I guess, some of the outstanding ones.

Bernadette Thompson: Those are the ones you might know. They're all enormously talented.

William W. Thompson: One other guy was a broadcaster, a commentator or newsman, on ABC Radio and also taught journalism at Boston University.

Bernadette Thompson: Remember Jack Marrow?

William W. Thompson: Well, yeah, I don't know much about what he did. Something in health care, got his PhD in health policy or health something, public health or something. So again, we just had some very, very gifted and talented people who were really interesting.

Wendy McLaughlin: How did the whole deselection process happen? Did it start there in L.A.?

William W. Thompson: Oh, yeah.

Wendy McLaughlin: I mean, I heard somebody else mention hatchet men. It was another sixties volunteer, and she said that's what they used to call the.

William W. Thompson: Well, I don't think we called them hatchet men. But at that time, and this might be interesting to some of the current volunteers. At that time, when you joined the Peace Corps, you went through training and they had some interviews and psychological evaluations and things at least two or three different times. And we lost, one phase where we might lose one or two people, and the next step we might lose two or three more, that were deselected. And then finally, you know, there's more further accepting this position. Finally, if you made it to the very end and you were finally in, you know, were in for good. Then you made plans to go on to Colombia. I understand now that they send them to the country, they're thinking. Well see, we, that's not. We didn't go to Colombia until after. The training and then Colombia. There was no back and forth or pre-exposure to the country. But I think that sounds good because of course, we had a few people who went to Colombia and for various reasons came home early for some reason. Some got married or that had family problems back here or something.

Wendy McLaughlin: Now they do all the weeding out before you go, so only the people who are going to the country are the ones that have been, had the background check and passed all the psychological tests and stuff like that.

William W. Thompson: So that's, yeah, well, that's our process was like, but you didn't go to the country.

Wendy McLaughlin: Right. Well, we didn't even go to training because all the training now is done in country. Yeah.

William W. Thompson: It seems like there was something else that I was going to mention about training.

Bernadette Thompson: [inaudible]

William W. Thompson: They disappeared in the middle of the night.

Wendy McLaughlin: They couldn't say goodbye to you or anything?

William W. Thompson: No, they disappeared.

Bernadette Thompson: In the night, they did. If they weren't in place at 8:00 in the morning, we knew.

William W. Thompson: Like a little archipelago. It was just.

Bernadette Thompson: And we lost, not a lot. It was almost predictable. We were a very young group. I was one of the oldest of the young group. I was 29. And the youngest had not graduated or had just gotten out of high school. And we had one 70 year old woman who made it, did very well.

Wendy McLaughlin: A 70 year old man?

Bernadette Thompson: Woman, lady. Rita Shields. And then we had one older gentleman who was a former Army person, military man, and he did not make it.

William W. Thompson: His first objective was to set up a spy network in Colombia. That's what he was going to do.

Wendy McLaughlin: Wow. No conflict there.

Bernadette Thompson: But it was scary. Yeah, it was nerve wracking, upsetting, for some of us.

William W. Thompson: Because you didn't know until the very end, if you were going to go or not, after going after doing all that work.

Bernadette Thompson: And try to explain that to your parents.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah. How long was the training?

William W. Thompson: [inaudible]

Bernadette Thompson: It was. It was. And we were in Puerto Rico. They went directly over and I forgot that part.

William W. Thompson: You went to more interim training. The teachers.

Bernadette Thompson: The 42 utilization people, the teachers, went to Puerto Rico to work in the school system for 30 days.

Wendy McLaughlin: That's a good idea.

Bernadette Thompson: Before, and the television men went directly from training to the television studio in Bogota, and they worked always in Bogota. The 42 of us went all over the country. As did the tecnicos, when they weren't falling through the roof. It happens.

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, so when you got in-country though, did you have translators that were working with you or you were just working with in-country folks and it was all?

William W. Thompson: Oh, we were totally on our own to find our own apartment, buy our furniture and to get settled and then start working. And then we were assigned. We had a project director, Stanley Hamelman. And so we were assigned, the producer directors, were assigned certain programs to work with the Colombian teachers on. So I had second and third grade math, that television series, so I would meet with the instructor, the Colombian math teacher. And of course, you know about the concept of time is, trying to get broadcasts on the air, on time, trying to get teachers' guides published and written and distributed nationwide on time is always quite an experience. Because time meant nothing to them. So in television, time is everything. So there was a cultural, you know, cultural clash there in terms of punctuality, getting things rehearsed on tape. Sometimes the equipment would break down and it didn't work and then we'd have to videotape the next day or some other time. It had its challenges.

Wendy McLaughlin: I'm sure. Coming from a non-production director kind of background, can you tell me a little bit more about what you did specifically? Like what was your? Cause you mentioned doing second and third grade math.

William W. Thompson: OK.

Wendy McLaughlin: I'm thinking like, you know, I'm thinking like TV production, and it is TV, but how did how did that work? How was your project?

William W. Thompson: Well, I would work with the teacher and she would have, you know, certain objectives for a lesson and we would have to come up, again, very primitive. We would have to come up with usually hand-made graphics and examples and things that she would put up on a board or write, and we would plan out what she was going to teach and put graphics and things she was going to use. And then I would plan my shots. We had two cameras in the studio, so I would, as the director, I would have to, in Spanish of course, be on the headset preparing each cameraman to know what their next shot was going to be. And then we had a gentleman that did this actual switching, so I would call the shots. Take camera one, take camera two. And I would also, on the same headset communication system, would be the people in the videotaping room. I'd have to make sure that they were ready.

And we would rehearse them, the lesson, first. Rehearse it without taping it and get any kinks worked out. Because time, time was always precious and not just in terms of studio time, but in terms of machine time. It was very expensive to run those huge, the videotape machines for twice the size of that cabinet. And the tape was two inches wide instead of what you have now. So we would rehearse the entire educational lesson. And then when that was, we felt it was ready to actually go on tape, then I would call down, had everyone on standby, and tell them in the tape room to roll the tape and we would start to videotape it. They would do a spot check it, rewind it a few minutes and spot check it to make sure it was a good recording before anyone left. Does that answer your question?

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

William W. Thompson: Some of the others, I didn't use film that much. This was all videotaped in the studio. Some of the other more adventuresome producer directors actually would go out and film things in the field and then bring the film back and have it developed and incorporate film clips into their studio presentations.

Wendy McLaughlin: So after these segments were shot, how were they distributed? How did this work?

William W. Thompson: Very good question. They were, of course, saved on videotape and stored in the library. And then there was a schedule, and this is what I sort of referred to earlier. And we had to generate, a teacher and I, it was mainly her, her job, because it was instructional type materials for the teachers in the classroom. She would prepare guides that on such and such a day, we're going to have a lesson on addition, OK? You need to prepare your students by doing such and such to do maybe little exercises. And then at a set time, they turn the TV on and we broadcast from Bogota. We'd play the tape. It was done with that tape of that lesson, that corresponding lesson, the video that we had produced earlier would be broadcast and sent nationwide over a series of microwave links. So they would go, I don't know how many microwave links it took to get over all the mountains, but it was transmitted to certain microwave towers and then to local transmission towers that could tune into channel 5 or 10 or whatever channel it was.

Wendy McLaughlin: Was this something new that the government was kind of supporting?

William W. Thompson: It was relatively, the concept of educational television was new. And at that time, they only had one television station and it was government owned. It was a government station. Now it's like here, they have multiple stations for different things. But at that time, there was, um, they weren't using. Someone at AID, I believe, got, someone in the U.S. Government came across this realization that Colombia had this nationwide television system, but they were only using it at night for entertainment. So they would have entertainment type programs from the studios at night, but they weren't using it during the day at all. So someone, I don't know who, came up with the idea, why don't we use it during the day for education and help standardize the basic math and history and science and language and music education throughout the country with these enrichment programs?

So U.S. AID got involved in providing the television sets, and the Peace Corps got involved in providing the manpower to help produce. But what I failed to mention so far. The primary objective was to train Colombians to take over from us and to do it themselves. So that was really, even though we did all or most of it initially, our primary objective was to make ourselves obsolete. So the Colombians took it over, which they did, and they're still running it today.

Wendy McLaughlin: They're still?

William W. Thompson: Doing it, the Colombians are still doing it. It's more of a cultural channel now, rather than the instruction, classroom instruction. But the same basic operation is still continuing today. But in color, of course.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yes. I just think about that because my parents got their first TV the year that I was born, which was in 1970, and we lived in Alaska. And to think about people in Colombia in '65 to '67, who were, you know, that's just amazing to me.

William W. Thompson: It was amazing that they had that system for one thing, the nationwide broadcast system.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah. Wow. So, um. Did you return to the United States at all during your two years overseas, for vacation?

William W. Thompson: Oh no, we weren't allowed to. I mean, that's something else that may be different from the way it is now. Oh no. In fact, the whole, I guess, generational, of the whole mindset during that time, and I'm sure it goes back to the very beginning, but certainly prevalent during the '40s and '50s and '60s was that when you committed to something, you were expected to go through with it. I mean, there's no backing out. I mean, the thought of quitting.

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, not quitting, but just coming home to see your family?

Bernadette Thompson: No, no, no, no.

William W. Thompson: Even that. None of those things even entered our minds. And not only were they prohibited, we weren't allowed to come back to the States at all. But the whole concept again of cutting our service short, or quitting just because we didn't like it, would never enter our minds. Would never enter our minds.

Bernadette Thompson: Those with money went to Miami, so they went and had fun. They never thought of going home.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah. So it was more kind of a personal thing versus like a societal kind of, personal thing versus. Some people it sounds like may have gone on vacation, but um.

William W. Thompson: Well, the. I'm not sure how to answer that. I think, well, first of all, we didn't have much money to travel. Secondly, we only had a certain number of travel days, vacation days. And we were working. It was a job, we were working and we had. But school was in session and we were producing programs, and there's no question that the program had to be. But even during vacation time, the Peace Corps office kept our passports. We couldn't go anywhere.

Wendy McLaughlin: That's one way to make sure you don't leave the country.

William W. Thompson: And we did sneak out with our Peace Corps ID cards, and we only had certain number of international vacation days, like six or something, to go to. And I went to Venezuela, I went over to Caracas, and that was. And then we snuck out of Colombia on the strength of our Peace Corps ID cards, then to Ecuador, and almost didn't get back in because they stopped us at the border to get back in and held us. They were expecting a bribe, I think, is what they were expecting. But they held us and talked to us, and then I finally, since I was the most proficient in Spanish, finally negotiated our way out of Ecuador and back into Colombia.

Wendy McLaughlin: So they didn't have to call the Peace Corps office?

William W. Thompson: No, they didn't have to.

Bernadette Thompson: They couldn't decide what color I was. You had to put your race down.

William W. Thompson: Oh yeah, we got some sort of little.

Bernadette Thompson: We had to get a card.

William W. Thompson: Some sort of visa.

Bernadette Thompson: A travel card.

William W. Thompson: To go into Ecuador.

Bernadette Thompson: And I was very suntanned and I [inaudible]. And they couldn't decide. They were just like, well, who is she? No blanco, no negro. Carmelita! They called me carmelita. That's my pet, my little Ecuadorian travel visa.

William W. Thompson: Was that to get into Ecuador or coming back? Oh, to get back in. We had to have some Ecuadorian travel card.

Wendy McLaughlin: And they take your picture in the plaza of the whole city. You sit on a crate and somebody holds behind you a gray piece of cloth. And then there's a guy in front of you like this. And that's the picture.

William W. Thompson: He takes the lens off, the lens cap off and puts it back on, and that's the shutter.

Bernadette Thompson: That's the shutter.

Wendy McLaughlin: How fun, though, wow.

William W. Thompson: We were able to travel around Colombia, within the country, either on short vacations or we would have conferences periodically in different parts of the country. But our group would have a conference to get together and compare notes. And a lot of parents came down to visit. My parents came down, Bunny's parents came down a couple of times to visit us in country. So that was allowed.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about the living conditions that you lived in?

William W. Thompson: I had a small apartment in Bogota, halfway up the mountains, which we just we visited. It's still there, a year ago we took a trip to Colombia and checked it out. And the neighborhood is very much the same. It was on the third floor and, you know, it was OK. The only thing is that there was no heat generally in Colombia and Bogota, even though your first impression is, oh, it's just pleasantly cool. Eventually, the cold gets into your bones. And so it was that we were cold very much of the time. But I don't even think we had hot water, I don't remember having hot water.

Wendy McLaughlin: Did you have indoor plumbing?

William W. Thompson: Oh yeah, we had indoor plumbing. We had a kitchen with a little sink. We must have had hot water, I just don't remember how it was heated. But I know in many places that there's no hot water for showers. A shower only. And the water in Bogota was safe, it was considered safe to drink. So we were fortunate that we didn't have to worry about the water in Bogota. And now basically the whole country has a very safe water supply. I was always sick once, briefly. That was my only health problem. It was food poisoning for a day or two.

Wendy McLaughlin: Who cooked your meals and what was a typical meal?

William W. Thompson: We cooked. There was no refrigeration, no refrigerators. So we would shop for every meal. You would go out a fair amount, even though that could get expensive. But you would, if you prepared a meal, you'd have to go shop for that meal and prepare and eat it and then go shop again for the next meal. So it was sort of catch as catch can. I don't remember cooking in a whole lot. I know I did some.

Bernadette Thompson: Remember we had Rosario and we had Yo.

William W. Thompson: We had a cleaning lady.

Bernadette Thompson: Yeah, cleaning lady. She didn't cook but she would clean the sink, the dishes.

William W. Thompson: She'd come in once a week or so to clean. And I think she did our laundry, I'm not sure, because we had no laundry facilities.

Bernadette Thompson: Rosario did my laundry.

William W. Thompson: And there was like a dry cleaning place. I don't remember. Because it was such a hassle to cook.

Wendy McLaughlin: How far into service did you guys get together as a couple?

Bernadette Thompson: Oh, never. Oh, I didn't even know or like him.

Wendy McLaughlin: You didn't start dating in Peace Corps?

William W. Thompson: Well, not officially.

Bernadette Thompson: Well, I'm sure we were in love but we never said anything.

William W. Thompson: Uh, let me elaborate on that. First of all, we were warned, as you know, some of the other volunteers ignored the warning and the inevitable happened. We were warned by Peace Corps officials about volunteer relationships.

Bernadette Thompson: And romances.

William W. Thompson: Romances, and especially marriages. So they said the record on Peace Corps marriages lasting after Peace Corps was very, very poor. So, you know, I wanted to be very careful not to jump into something that, you know, I'd already been warned was not likely to last. But we came back. And then I proposed after we came back home.

Bernadette Thompson: And I had to say to him, well, do you love me? I mean, the subject had never, ever been broached. And that was 42 years ago.

Wendy McLaughlin: That's so awesome, wow.

Bernadette Thompson: Something else, many of our, well not many. In our group, there were two other marriages, two or three other marriages. Two did not last. And one is still going. And he is very, they're both very accomplished people, the Dalverers, and he's very active in keeping the group together, they're both Californians.

William W. Thompson: We get emails, we have email addresses for a large number of our group. A few have disappeared from, or say cannot be found.

Bernadette Thompson: You know, it's still the kind of thing where you could call any one of them at any time. You know, and say, look my child or my grandchild is in trouble in your city. Could you go over and just check on them. We've done that a couple of times. Steve Shepherd's son Jesse, helped them out. And it's that kind of thing with the camaraderie that you develop in the Marine Corps or the Jesuits or something like that, you know.

Wendy McLaughlin: Bonding over a common experience.

Bernadette Thompson: Yeah.

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, what would you say as far as like your service was, you know, as you were kind of ending your service? What kinds of things did you feel like you accomplished? What are some of the failures that you might have experienced, like the pluses and. [tape break] So maybe talk a little bit about the pluses and minuses of your service or your achievements, the things that you felt really good about, and maybe some things that you might have done differently.

William W. Thompson: Well, I felt very good about what we had accomplished in the TV studio in terms of training Colombians to take over from us. And of course, what we were able to do on a nationwide level in education. At that time, I was not as satisfied with what I was able to accomplish in teaching organ. I had one fairly serious student down in Ibagué. But he was working on, um, he was in school studying veterinary medicine. I had two or three other students from Montero and Bogota, but none of them really, as far as I know, pursued the organ studies or became accomplished organists. So um. As far as unfinished business, I can't think of anything that I felt that I really left undone. You know, I felt that I'd done pretty much what I could. And the two years was a very short time. I think we got a lot done in two years, considering.

Wendy McLaughlin: I'm really curious, just from a personal standpoint, like you mentioned both your brother and you have been trained in organ. Where does that come from? I mean, how did that start?

William W. Thompson: Well, I don't know. We just, as young children, we started piano lessons when we were seven and we just always kind of, we must have just been born with that interest in music and listening to piano and organ specifically. And even before I could study an instrument, I would stack up, I would pull out a set of encyclopedias and set them up and pretend I was playing the piano.

Bernadette Thompson: It was a small town in Texas and it was hard to find, you know, outstanding teachers. This is an esoteric type pursuit.

Wendy McLaughlin: What was the name of the community that you're from in Texas?

William W. Thompson: Seagoville. It's a small town in Dallas County.

Wendy McLaughlin: OK. Great. Well, obviously, you know, the three goals of Peace Corps. We always encourage returned volunteers to kind of evaluate their service in light of the three goals of Peace Corps. And obviously we just talked a moment ago about providing the technical assistance that was requested by the Colombian government. How do you feel in light of your service about promoting better understanding of the United States?

William W. Thompson: Well, in terms of whether we were successful or not in that?

Wendy McLaughlin: Just how you personally feel like your experiences in Colombia, you know, may have led to a better understanding of Americans.

William W. Thompson: Well, I think first of all, the Colombians had a very positive predisposition to Americans anyhow. They might not have always. I mean, they kept, they would remind us that we took Panama away from them regularly. But generally, they're very gracious people and they love Americans and they like the United States. They're still one of our closest allies in Latin America. Um, whether I was able to contribute to that, I don't know. I don't know. I would hope so. Because of my example and my working and giving of my time to help out.

Bernadette Thompson: They loved him. They had never seen anybody so tall, so blonde, with such blue eyes.

Wendy McLaughlin: I bet.

William W. Thompson: Several of us were tall and we lived in the same neighborhood and the neighborhood kids especially would call us gigantes. Giants.

Bernadette Thompson: Bill was very, very well revered, especially for his leadership and his abilities in working with these maestras, these Colombian women, that were teachers and did not have any education themselves and were very anxious to learn, you know? So I think the men in the group made very, because they were gentlemen, quiet gentlemen, and nothing changed. And there was no big macho feeling in Peace Corps volunteer men, and that was very interesting, I think, you know, on the women, especially, you could see. And then the men in the studio who could see that you could get an enormous job done, you know, without, um.

William W. Thompson: Giving orders.

Bernadette Thompson: Without shouting.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah. Were most of the teachers women or were some of them men?

William W. Thompson: One. There was one man, at least one. But did he teach history?

Bernadette Thompson: I don't know, but he was from a wealthy family, like the Amarals.

William W. Thompson: Amador.

Bernadette Thompson: Amador. Oh, forgive me.

William W. Thompson: The music teacher was.

Bernadette Thompson: Yeah. Amalia Santera.

Wendy McLaughlin: So you mentioned going back to Colombia, was it last year? What has been your path back to your host country since you left service? Have you had communication or?

William W. Thompson: No. A lot of, some volunteers, in fact a very dear friend of mine who was in a different group, has stayed in touch with a lot of people down there. And I just, I didn't stay in touch with other Colombians or Colombians after I came back. I just got busy with other things. And of course, I was always interested in what was happening in Colombia. And I just, I read news stories, but I didn't. Other than joining the Peace Corps Friends of Colombia organization, of RPCVs. We stayed in touch with Peace Corps people.

Bernadette Thompson: Yes, they're our dearest friends.

William W. Thompson: But I never really stayed in touch with Colombians.

Wendy McLaughlin: So talk a little bit about your trip back. It sounds like.

William W. Thompson: It was a phenomenal event and it was indescribable. First of all, the changes, just the technological and the physical changes in Bogota. It's just so advanced and so modern and a huge difference.

Bernadette Thompson: Tell her about Peggy's friends, we did have two connections. Our dear friend whos' remained single all this time.

William W. Thompson: Another retired Peace Corps volunteer from our group that we remained very close to has a cousin who married a Colombian, a Colombian gentleman who lives here in the U.S. at this point. So he had some good connections in terms of a driver of a cab, a taxi driver for hire to stay with us the entire time. And also seen a couple of other friends that he had known here in the U.S., Colombians who have returned to Colombia. So we had some connections through friends for those kinds of things. And we visited a ranch, a finca, outside of Bogota, where one of them. Had worked in New York for many years and returned. B.

Restaurateurs.

So we had a lovely visit.

Bernadette Thompson: Peggy had kept up with [inaudible], but they remembered her and she let them know she was coming. And Peggy was beautiful, and still is as a matter of fact as a 69 year old woman, and she contacted these people. Well, [El] Espinal is a very, very small, hot, hot, hot. I cannot tell you how hot Espinal is, on the Magdalena River. And this person, this man and his wife had become successful in many ways, I'm sure. But financially solid. She contacted them and they had a brother who was nuts about Peggy at the time. And I think he was younger, so he was maybe 20, and his affection has not waned. So it was delightful. They took us to their country club. Now there were four of us in our group, two men and two women. Our two friends have remained single and dear friend of ours, wonderful aunts and uncles to my children. I'm grateful.

So there were four of us and they wined us and dined us, took us to their country club, and then they took us to. This was in Espinal. Then they took us to a store that Peggy's former cohort. What would you call them? A partner in working, owned like a biblioteca, like a school supply store and lovely things. And it was crowded and he was doing all the Land Office business and I went around. At the time, I had two little granddaughters, school age, and so I'm picking out Christmas gifts. My nephew was having a 12 year birthday and I had a bunch of stuff and it became clear to me that they're not going to let me pay for this.

Wendy McLaughlin: Uh huh.

Bernadette Thompson: So I had to stop buying. So they were so delightful to us.

William W. Thompson: So gracious.

Bernadette Thompson: Then they took us to, um, was it their city home? Or where was that? A wonderful apartment.

William W. Thompson: Ended up in their condo, which was a beautiful place.

Bernadette Thompson: So they have fond, fond memories of Americans.

William W. Thompson: But we had a hard time getting out of there because we would start to leave. And they'd say, oh no, no, here have another drink. Let me show you pictures or something.

Wendy McLaughlin: And this road, we should tell her the difference. I lived in Ibagué. Peggy and I, our girlfriend, and I lived in Ibagué, which is four hours down the Andes Mountains from Bogota, where the men were. The men all stayed in Bogota because of the television studio. The rest of us were out in the campo, teaching teachers how to teach with television. And we gave what you might call seminars besides going on a question. So this road between these two cities was a nightmare. We were going down the Andes Mountains and we're hanging on to the top.

William W. Thompson: Two lane road.

Bernadette Thompson: Two lane road. And we did it. You would never tell your mother you did this, never. And now.

William W. Thompson: Four-lane divided highway.

Bernadette Thompson: Divided highway. Unbelievable. The driving has not changed, our driver was very much a native Colombian. But the roads, you wouldn't believe the difference.

William W. Thompson: And the transportation. Bogota has what they call the TransMilenio. So that's a commuter train, commuter rail, a light rail system all over the city, certain parts of the city, like a streetcar system on the surface. And Cali might be building something similar. Well, I am. You asked about going back to Colombia. I'm actively working on getting our products distributed into Colombia at the company I work for. So I'm hoping to go down and do this in training, and we're hoping that a lot of Colombian, but throughout Latin America, but especially Colombia, Colombian dealers will come to a major conference here in Orlando next month. So I'm hoping that we can meet with them and get them to sign up and start selling our products.

Wendy McLaughlin: What kind of products?

William W. Thompson: It's a control system. Very simple push button controller. You know, at home you have your handheld wireless remote for, say for your TV set. So imagine in a classroom or school system that's maybe hundreds if not thousands of classrooms and each one has this little handheld remote. They get lost, they get stolen. The batteries go dead. The handheld wireless remote is a disaster. We have developed a light switch looking thing that goes on the wall. So the teacher comes in the room and instead of fumbling around with a handheld remote, they just push a button to turn the video projector on or play a VCR or DVD. So it's a, it helps automate and helps make the use of this multimedia classroom easier to use. But it's not going to get lost. It's not going to die.

Bernadette Thompson: It's not sitting on a chair.

William W. Thompson: Or punch it with a ruler, that's what they did.

Wendy McLaughlin: That's hilarious.

William W. Thompson: So it's, again related to media, audiovisual communications, and education.

Wendy McLaughlin: So what kind of long-term effects do you feel like your services had on you as a person and personally, you know, going overseas? And you know, how do you feel that you are different from becoming a Peace Corps volunteer?

William W. Thompson: Well, I think I have a different perspective on foreign countries, for one thing, and what they're facing and some of the difficulties there. But also a different perspective on our own country and somewhat of a new, um, what's the right word? Caution or. Not cynical, but more of a cautious view of our press. Because one example we had in Colombia when we were there, Time magazine. There was a couple of thieves stopped a bus and robbed everybody and I think shot a couple of people. Well, these were just common highway robbers who had no political leanings of any kind, one way or the other. And the Time magazine article wrote them up as communist guerrillas. But they were just thugs, you know? So it made me wonder what else is our press doing to reinterpret what the facts were? So it made me very suspicious, I guess is the word.

Wendy McLaughlin: Critical thinker, actually.

William W. Thompson: What information was there and who's behind it and what is their motive?

Wendy McLaughlin: Sure.

William W. Thompson: So going to this day [inaudible] and reading between the lines and watching a variety of opinions too.

Wendy McLaughlin: Yeah. Well that sounds very intelligent to me. Definitely. Well, is there anything that we didn't cover in the interview or any other details? Or anything else that you'd like to share?

William W. Thompson: The only thing and the only negative, I guess, would be that I never really adjusted, because of my personality and my type and my background and my work and my desire to get things done on time. I never really adjusted to the way that, a Latin American concept of time. That just really started to get on my nerves. To make an appointment with somebody then you show up and they're not even there. But you sit in their outer office for an hour before you can get in to see them. It's just, I never really adjusted to that.

Bernadette Thompson: That hasn't changed. When we were there last year, you were very good about it. Remember we made plans and we waited and we waited.

William W. Thompson: Oh, at the library. All I wanted to do was go back and to see the organ that I had played concerts on at the Biblioteca Luis Ángel Arango concert hall. I just wanted to go in and play it for a few minutes. I thought this was a very reasonable, non-threatening request. Well, I got the runaround. I never did get in the studio because the person that had to get that permission wasn't there. She was out of town. And at one point, didn't we go there and I thought she was in her office?

Bernadette Thompson: Oh sure.

William W. Thompson: The secretary.

Bernadette Thompson: They had us wait for a couple of hours. And she was out of town!

William W. Thompson: She wasn't even there. The secretary had us waiting.

Bernadette Thompson: For this person was never coming.

Wendy McLaughlin: And she knew this?

William W. Thompson: It was her boss. Her boss wasn't even there.

Wendy McLaughlin: But they're so polite, they won't say no. You know, they wait for you to give up.

That's totally frustrating.

William W. Thompson: And the secretary said, well, she's the only one that can let you in or get permission for you to see the organ. I said, and I've really I think I lost it once. How can I say that? And I said, you mean there's no janitor or maintenance man or anyone with a key to that room, who knows where the light switch is, that can let me in and see the organ that I used to play concerts on? Oh, and then after our trip to Colombia, I thought, well, maybe I could go back. Maybe after all of these years, maybe, you know, the U.S. Embassy or the library or somebody from the Colombian government would sponsor me to do a return visit to play another concert. Actually, I could see the headline, "Peace Corps volunteer returns after 40 years to play at the Biblioteca." Well, I explored those avenues and none of them developed. But what I'm really getting at is that I was in communication later with the lady that wasn't there, whose secretary I was waiting for. I did get her email address and I emailed her and I said something about that I played the first program or the first concert on that new organ when it was built.

Bernadette Thompson: And that's the truth.

William W. Thompson: And that's the truth. And she wrote back and she said, well, we have no record of you ever playing. So I have newspaper articles from El Tiempo, and I had other letters that I had written to my parents about playing for a reception. It was true I didn't play the first real concert that I thought, another American had, somebody from Princeton was supposed to play the inaugural concert. But I played during the reception the night before that for all of the Colombian government officials and people the night before it was officially opened with the first concert. And I played concerts regularly and had programs, had printed programs.

Wendy McLaughlin: And when you go back, you can show her.

Bernadette Thompson: You scanned it and sent it.

William W. Thompson: Well, I sent my pictures of me sitting at the console.

Bernadette Thompson: They'd probably deny it.

William W. Thompson: I scanned it all in, newspaper articles, programs, everything, and sent all of us to her as evidence that I was very involved in that. And she never replied.

Bernadette Thompson: So that's a dead horse. If we go back down there, he'll try again.

Wendy McLaughlin: Wow.

Bernadette Thompson: We got more out of that than we gave.

William W. Thompson: Yeah, I would think most Peace Corps volunteers say that, I benefited more than I was able to contribute. Anything else?

Bernadette Thompson: Ours was a very, very interesting project. We were the second group down there or something like that. We were the third group, we were ETV, educational television and radio. The third group down.

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, I'm looking forward to interviewing Bernadette, or Bunny, Thompson soon, and we can get her account of her experience.

William W. Thompson: And she'll tell you the real scoop.

Wendy McLaughlin: According to Bunny, right?

Bernadette Thompson: I'll tell you what really happened.

Wendy McLaughlin: Thank you so much for your interview.

William W. Thompson: You're welcome. I hope someone enjoys it.

Bernadette Thompson: Our experience was pretty much the same, except the before, you know, how we got there. And maybe our perception of training.

Wendy McLaughlin: Well, that's going to be very interesting.