Interviewer(s): I003
Interviewee(s): P471

I003: You have told me that you are 38 years old, you are Pare by tribe, you have attended school up class seven and that you have four children and your main economic activity is keeping livestock and farming.

P471: Yes.

I003: Were you born in this village?

P471: No.

I003: Where were you born?

P471: I was born in Same District…this is where I grew up and started class one.

I003: You grew up here up to which age?

P471: I grew up here till I moved away (migrated).

I003: You migrated from this village at what age?

P471: I migrated from this village at the age of 28 years.

I003: And you moved to where?

P471: I migrated to Bagamoyo district.

I003: Therefore, you went there to be married or to look for a job?

P471: No. We just migrated to a different location.

I003: Therefore, this place is where you migrated to?

P471: Yes…it is just this very place.

I003: Now if we may go back to those days when you were a girl, what roles did a girl child and boy child play?

P471: In those days, we just did household work at home

I003: That was girl’s role?

P471: Yes.

I003: Kindly name them…

P471: Cooking, washing clothes and utensils.

I003: Those were the responsibilities of a girl child?

P471: Eeeeh…

I003: What of fetching water?

P471: Eeeeh…and fetching water.

I003: What are the roles of a male child?

P471: The role of a male child is to look after cattle (livestock)

I003: Now in your family, how many were you born just in total?

P471: I cannot tell.

I003: Do you have those who got educated?

P471: Eeeeh…

I003: Like how many went to school?

P471: Like five.

I003: What does your husband do?

P471: Who?

I003: Your husband?

P471: He is a farmer.

I003: Okay…now lets us talk about food. You said you have stayed here for a long time. Which foods do you mostly like eating?

P471: There is Ugali with amaranth, beans, milk…

I003: But there is ugali (maize meal)

P471: Yes, also Kande, rice and maize is what we cultivate ourselves and therefore I would say we eat varieties of food.

I003: Okay but which is your favourite meal?

P471: Ugali though in a week we mix ugali, rice, kande…

I003: But one common meal in a week is which one?

P471: It is ugali.

I003: Followed by which meal?

P471: It is followed by rice.

I003: It is fine. Now if we may talk about those foods that you have mentioned like rice, maize etc.…do you cultivate these crops yourselves?

P471: Ohh yes.

I003: Which ones do you buy?

P471: I would say we mostly buy vegetables.

I003: That is what you mostly buy?

P471: Yes.

I003: So you have not gone short of food?

P471: no…unless when there is shortage of rainfall such that the crops fail to produce well and that is the time we may buy food but otherwise we have never bought food.

I003: Otherwise you have never bought food?

P471: Yes.

I003: There some of the foods that you go to buy like vegetables …now these foods that you buy, who is the one making decisions of buying them…is it the father, mother or you all decide that because the food is over, let us go and buy or it is just anybody who comes with food?

P471: For instance when there are no vegetables, me as a mother (wife) will tell my husband to give me money to buy vegetables.

I003: What if he decides to go himself and then buy the vegetables?

P471: if he decides to go to the market and then buy, it is well and good but if he gives me the money, I go to the market and buy vegetables.

I003: Now if we may go to a different question. We talk of a male or a female grown up child, is there a ceremony that you make to initiate them to adulthood like the Maasai make a traditional dance. Therefore according to you, when you say a female child has grown up to become an adult woman how do you do it or what do you look at in order to acknowledge that she is now a grown-up woman?

P471: You mean for a female child growing up to a woman…is that what you mean?

I003: Mmmm.

P471: I do not know. I only see they have grown up…but you will see the way her body changing and growing big…it appears just the way we were created by god….

I003: You mean her body is growing big and she starts experiencing monthly….

P471: Hahaaa…. Yes.

I003: Just speak it out. Do not fear.

P471: Eeeeh…by looking at these, you just know she has come close to being a woman

I003: Okay…but they say a girl can even experience monthly periods even when she is in class four or five. Is that how it is now days?

P471: It is true.

I003: Now at what age will she have grown up?

P471: At that point when. My bother there some of the things I cannot tell you.

I003: No…just explain. Or till she reaches class seven?

P471: I do not know because I do not have a grown-up daughter such that I can tell.

I003: It is fine. There is no problem but even though you are a woman too. Didn’t you go through the same process?

P471: Yes, I am a woman but I did not know by that time what I was undergoing as I grew up.

I003: Now did you realize at a certain age that you are now grown to maturity?

P471: I could not recognize because I just grew up and got married and to date I do not know.

I003: Do you have a traditional ceremony where people dance in order to initiate one from childhood to adulthood?

P471: Yes, it is there but us there are some lessons you are undergoing so they will teach you and then they will initiate you to the adulthood.

I003: Why?

P471: When a girl is now a grown up, her body is well covered completely.

I003: Does she also participate in the initiation process?

P471: Yes…when a girl has become a grown up, she is covered with a piece of cloth (khanga)

I003: Now lets us look at your life at this grown-up age. What is your main economic activity that has enabled you earn a living…is it farming or livestock keeping?

P471: It is both farming and livestock rearing.

I003: What do you grow?

P471: We grow all crops depending on the season.

I003: Don’t you have a business like a shop that you rely upon?

P471: For instance, our father has built rental houses in town but we do not rely on them at the expense of cattle though they are there for emergency because the cattle can die anytime thus rely on the income from the rental house.

I003: Are they guest houses or rental houses?

P471: Not guest houses but rental houses which tenants rent like hotels.

I003: Are they in Morogoro?

P471: No. The houses are located in a place called Mikindu.

I003: Ahaa…I know Mikindu. Is it on your way to Turiani?

P471: Eeeeh.

I003: Lets us look at another question. If you look in the past, there are some foods that our mothers or grandmothers used to cook for you but are not commonly used or not available today?

P471: They are still there and we eat them.

I003: You mean they are still there today and you eat them?

P471: Yes…they are still in our tradition and we still eat them.

I003: Okay. What of foods that never used to be there in the past when you were young but are there nowadays and a favourite meal to many.

P471: When I was still young? How?

I003: Yes, I mean when you were still a young girl like five years old and was knowledgeable you were eating ugali...ugali…ugali then all over a sudden today you see a change people are now eating chips enriched with eggs, rice etc. Do you think there is a new food?

P471: I do not think there is any new food, may be chips though we were not used to it unless one just wants to eat it but not a reliable meal.

I003: May be the way food is cooked (prepared) has changed for instance you will hear a Maasai saying that in the past, we used to boil food but nowadays it is fried using onions, tomatoes…did you also prepare meals in the same way or it has changed?

P471: It has not changed. We cook food the same way we used to be cooked in the past

I003: Do you think the Maasai have changed too e.g. Nowadays they eat food they never used to eat in the past?

P471: Did they know any food in the past apart from milk which they only took?

I003: Therefore, they have emulated eating food from other tribes?

P471: Ohh yes.

I003: And what do you think has contributed so far to their change?

P471: I think it is because of mixing up with people from different tribes and backgrounds.

I003: Therefore that mingling together is what has contributed?

P471: Eeeeh and when you go to someone’s home and you see a different food which is good, you emulate the same. Nowadays Maasai plant the same foods for example they cultivate maize, they take it for milling themselves and therefore they too eat ugali.

I003: Do you think that education has also contributed to all these?

P471: Ohh yes education too has contributed.

I003: Therefore, we can say that education has contributed to these changes?

P471: Eeeeh.

I003: Drought has become persistent and contributed to death of many livestock (animals), can we say that it has contributed the change of food people eat for example the Maasai decide to eat ugali, rice and bananas because there is no milk?

P471: The issue is they do not change meals because of drought, yes there is drought but we cannot say drought has made them to change the meals that they eat.

I003: Mhhh…

P471: No…it is the environment that has contributed much for instance education in that when children go out, they learn new foods and when they come back home, they teach their people how to prepare new meals.

I003: Okay, Thank you. Now do you think the change of meals (food) has led to the change in the living standards of different people and the Maasai of the past?

P471: Yes it has changed.

I003: In which way it has changed?

P471: The Maasai of the past are not like the Maasai of today.

I003: Why? How the Maasai of the past are different from the Maasai of today?

P471: The Maasai of the past were not enlightened like the Maasai of today as one could not cook ugali. One could prepare tea with milk and take only that the whole day till evening or they could take fermented milk and it is just enough like that. I therefore don’t understand.

I003: When we talk of milk you as a mother, is it of importance to you or not?

P471: It is important not to me alone but even to other people.

I003: In which way?

P471: The way I understand milk or the way I brought up my children, I could prepare porridge then add milk or even feed my children ugali and milk and they would get satisfied and healthy.

I003: What of family income, do you sell milk or does milk contribute to household income?

P471: Yes, we do sell milk and buy other basic needs.

I003: Do you think milk is available as it is used to be in the past?

P471: Eeeh (yes). The drought has worsened and milk is scarce now.

I003: What has caused all these changes?

P471: I think it is drought that has led to this situation because in the past, we had enough milk as there was enough pasture but when drought hits back like now, you will find out that the cattle does not get enough pasture and others are dying…. When you milk the cows, they are empty thus can’t get milk.

I003: Do you experience land conflict between farmers and pastoralist?

P471: Yes, it is there.

I003: Do you think if conflicts contribute to the shortage of milk?

P471: Mmmm….

I003: Why? do milk prices go up?

P471: It goes up sometimes though rarely. Especially the one we are selling is cheap and prices do not go up.

I003: Why doesn’t the price go up?

P471: I do not know why.

I003: May be if we can look at other matters concerning food, who mostly buys food in your household?

P471: It is the husband who buys food.

I003: Is he the one who goes to the market to buy food?

P471: Mmmm.

I003: Which food does he go to buy?

P471: Like which food…because I get confused. He has never bought any food for us

I003: Okay it is fine. When you compare the past and today, do you think it is easier to get or buy food today compared with the past?

P471: In the past, it was easier to buy food as they were cheaper compared with today whereby food is very expensive.

I003: That is why he cannot buy food?

P471: Not that we are accusing him but it is because of difficult economic situation because it is easy to get food then eat but now getting money is difficult.

I003: Now lets us look at another question that deals with food. You may decide that today I will cook rice, bananas, ugali or kande, what do you think has contributed to all these?

P471: It is just about changing the diet, there is nothing much.

I003: Therefore, it is just about feelings?

P471: Yes, because one cannot eat one meal repeatedly say today you eat ugali; the following day you eat ugali again your body will want to change food.

I003: So, you have told me that is the appetite?

P471: I do not know if it is appetite…may be if you can guide me because I get confused.

I003: I know you are tired but I am yet to finish up.

P471: No, I am not tired I am very much okay.

I003: The issue I was telling you is; there is a situation whereby you say today you want to eat ugali, tomorrow you want to eat rice etc.…then again after three day you want to eat ugali. What is it that makes you change meals?

P471: The way I see, it is just important for a human being to change diet. If you keep eating one meal, you will lose the taste of that food.

I003: Therefore, lets us say that is what contributes to this situation?

P471: Mmmm.

I003: Do you think money also contributes to the change of diet?

P471: Yes, money also contributes to change of diet.

I003: Therefore, money also contributes?

P471: Eeeeh (yes)

I003: Another thing that contribute to the change of diet?

P471: There is no any other thing.

I003: Really! You can’t get another reason like drought contributing to change of meals?

P471: Of course that is what I had told you that the current situation is difficult as a result of drought.

I003: Therefore, drought has also contributed to the change of diet?

P471: Yes.

I003: Can you kindly explain how drought has contributed to the change of diet?

P471: For instance, right now during drought, there are no cows here meaning there is no milk to sell so I have to buy different food, therefore what will I change with? Don’t you think I will eat ugali and rice?

I003: Which is your favourite meal here?

P471: It is rice, in the past it was kande but nowadays it is rice.

I003: What is the staple food for the Maasai?

P471: It is rice…you know each tribe has its own staple meal.

I003: Therefore, when you go home, you will find that their favourite meal is rice?

P471: The Digos.

I003: That is it, I am a mixture of Meru and Gogo even when you go to our home you will find that our favourite food is bananas. Therefore, every person has his own favourite meal.

P471: It is true.

I003: Now, when we talk about food situation, do you think there is a time when the situation was very difficult, there was persistent dry spell, there is no money and you ate rarely e.g. Once or twice in a day?

P471: Ohh yes, it happens like last year the situation was bad.

I003: So what you experienced last year has never happened in your life?

P471: Yes, it has never happened. Last year there was hunger there was no food, where to buy food was a problem. Therefore, one would leave buying a kilo of maize flour in order to buy rice so that is sufficient for the children, it was last year alone it has never happened.

I003: So it was last year alone?

P471: Yes.

I003: Therefore you were then forced to buy food?

P471: Yes, we bought food.

I003: Could you tell me how you managed to overcome that situation?

P471: It was just by the grace of God.

I003: But God says that you must help yourself first before he helps you.

P471: It is by the grace of God because the cattle were dying, there was no business. We could go to a shop; the shop owner trusts you and buy foodstuff on credit because cattle were dying. For instance a cow that was worth Tshs 300,000 was sold at Tsh 100,000.

I003: So, what did you do?

P471: We were forced to buy food on credit.

I003: It is true. You had goats, why couldn’t you sell them to get money. Had their prices also fallen?

P471: Yes, though they were better off compared to the cattle because you could sell a goat at Tsh 50,000 then buy flour than selling a cow at Tsh 100,000 though people had just to sell because they would still die…. When you go then come back, you will find it dead. Therefore, the situation was really bad last year but by the grace God we managed to cross over.

I003: But lets us say when such a situation happens in the family, who between the father, the mother and the children is much affected?

P471: On the part of human beings, I will be deceiving God. No one was affected unless we talk of livestock which was grossly affected by the drought.

I003: Therefore, it is the cattle that were much affected?

P471: Yes…the cattle were much affected but on the part of human beings, they were not affected.

I003: Now who among them was much affected?

P471: There was no one who was much affected than the other for instance if a child went to its mother to ask for food, the mother would say the food is not there so she would cry or be disturbed mentally.

I003: I appreciate very much. Let me ask you a last question before I set you free to do your own things. For example, in this village, do you receive any education let us say that deals with diet e.g. Eating of fruits, green vegetables?

P471: We have never received such education here.

I003: You mean you have not received any education of that type even when you go to clinic?

P471: We do receive.

I003: Therefore, you receive the education when you go to the clinic?

P471: Yes.

I003: Were you also taught the same in school. Isn’t that so?

P471: Yes.

I003: Therefore, clinic is where you will hear such teachings?

P471: Yes.

I003: Haven’t you attended any of the seminars where the same is taught?

P471: No. The only seminar which i attended is the one which taught about education.

I003: Now when you were taught at the clinic, did you apply what you were taught?

P471: Ohh yes I applied as much as I can.

I003: Do you think it helps?

P471: Yes.

I003: Hahaaa...does it work well or bad?

P471: It helps very much; I cannot say that it is bad.

I003: Now give us a secret. Maybe we want a project about dietary issues and that we would wish to bring this project to this village of Kambala, do you think it is needed or not?

P471: It is good and it will be of help. Can I ask you a question?

I003: kindly reserve your question I am about to finish and you will ask me at the end of our interview.

P471: It is okay.

I003: What if we want this project to start so that it reaches out to everyone, what should we do, how should it be done?

P471: I am not a resident here but if you want to do something here, you should come just the way you came today. Next time you organize for a seminar so that when many people come, you will educate them till they understand.

I003: Therefore there is no problem?

P471: No problem.

I003: Okay.	What if we create awareness through schools, churches? Do you think it will help disseminate information?

P471: The information can still reach the residents but in this village people will just say okay but if a leader calls for a meeting, they will take it serious and attend to it even if not many will attend, but at least few will attend to it. When an adult listen and tells a fellow he will listen to it but if a child tells a parent that there is a meeting at school, they will say even in the market we have fruits. So, what are you telling us?

I003: When we bring this education, whom should we target? Is it the women, men or children?

P471: According to me, I see education concerning fruits and diet should target mothers (women).

I003: Why a mother (woman), why are you favouring yourselves?

P471: Because we are the ones who take care of families.

I003: Men do not take care of families?

P471: They do care. They bring the food home but it is the mother who prepares the food (meal)

I003: To this point I have exhausted my questions. You may now ask your questions?

P471: I have forgotten what I wanted to ask…what you had asked earlier.

I003: I just asked you if we can bring a project.

P471: You had asked a question about fruits then I forgot.

I003: Ahaa…. I had asked if you want to get education, where do you get it from…you said from dispensary (clinic).

P471: Now, are the fruits or the vegetables that forms a meal?

I003: Even if you eat ugali, it is still a meal though most people say that a nutritious food is flour which is mixed up.

P471: Eeeeh

I003: For me here, I haven’t started to teach.

P471: Ooh no, mean when you call for a seminar.

I003: Yes, when we call for a seminar is when we can start teaching though you still receive some training when you go to clinic for instance and you are diagnosed with poor eyesight or insufficient blood, you are told to eat foods like sweet potato leaves, green vegetables etc.…is it true?

P471: Eeeeh (yes)

I003: Therefore, when there is a seminar or similar project, those will be the same things that you will be taught every day.

P471: It is true…

I003: So you will be eating a variety of foods like green vegetables, fruits which help eyesight and for better health than eating just one meal. Do you have any question?

P471: No question.

I003: Fine.