Interviewer(s): F002
Interviewee(s): P

F002: Dear all, how are you doing?

P: We are doing good

F002: My name is Zahara Majili, I am with sister Mariana Kinabo and bother Mbaba Malaki. We are from the Sokoine University of agriculture we are working with International organisation which deals with agriculture and it is known as IRI which is based in Nairobi and also it has his offices in Dar es Salaam. It is not the first time to hear about that to you. It came few years ago with project known as More Milk (Maziwa Zaidi). We are aslo working with Emory University which is found in USA. We are in the research we want understand the food changes in community and house hold also to study what is causing these changes. We came here in February this year we talked with some of the people and we discovered that there are new things which we don’t understand and hence we want to know more about that that is why we come to do more discussion on those issues that raised questions and understand how we can assist the community and house hold to improve the nutrition and food issues. We will be using recorders…….. (Consent processes going on-Abdulaziz Juma)

Let me start with the first section; We all know that in most societies, so many changes have been occurring, At the moment we can say those natural food is not very common as they used to be consumed in the past. Also, the way we cook have changed. The way we were cooking meat is not the same as how we used to cook in the past. Do you all agree with that?

P: Yes

F002: How we used cook meat in the past comparing to the current time we have?

P: In the past we used to boil meat for so long but currently we cut it into pieces and roast the raw meat with tomatoes

F002: mhhh so now you fry more than boiling? But we also have seen there are some food which are no more eaten and there are those that we consume. Example fish though some of Masai don’t consume it but there are Masai who are consuming it. They also eat sardines, chicken, rice, beans, and vegetables. These were not there among Masai society. What about Wagogo community?

P: We used to eat Leaf Jute and dried cowpea leaves.

F002: What about this time? You don’t dry the cowpea leaves. So, we have seen there are some changes it is either those natural old food is no more eaten or are less consumed. So, what caused this, why people are not more eating the natural food?

P: It is copying others or imitating, globalization when you eat Jute people see you as poorest person (All laughter)

F002: What do you mean by globalization?

P: This means that there are foods that we used to eat in the past, when you eat it you are the poorest, some say that they cause malnutrition to the children.

F002: What are the other reasons for changing food?

P: In the past we used to milk the cow and after getting the milk we take it with stiff porridge which is made from cassava.

F002: What made the change now?

P: Development made us to change, the school and the church contributed to this

F002: can you elaborate more on that?

P: Is just you read until you understand what is the development, also in the church there are teaching that teach us about the church

F002: What about others?

P: I can add one more thing, when we were young we used to eat more meat, we used to live in the forest like three months eating meat, even the water that we were consuming were mixed up with milk. But we are now seeing changes our children are not going to the forest

F002: Why are children are not going to forest now days?

P: It is because they are going to school.

F002: Another one else? Takwenya (Interviewer greeting in Masai Language) what changed Masai; that they are now eating fish, chicken,eggs, chips

P: We don’t use sardines

F002: Chips

P: we use it

F002: What contributed to that?

P: When we walk around we see chips, and they are good.

F002: Why are you eating beans now days?

P: so, while we work around we see those foods we buy and come to cook home and they are delicious

F002: Another reason? Are you consuming milk like in the past time?

P: No we have changed now as most of the time we use to live in forest but now its different

F002: Another reason that contributed to consume less the traditional food?

P: mhh

F002: Lets now go to the Lifestyle/livelihood changes, let’s say in the past people were depending on certain issues to survive and get food, what can you talk about that?

P: Let say The Masai community, depend much on cattle to survive. But it is different now; the children now days because of education when you give them meat they will tell you am still hungry can you give stiff porridge?

F002: What are they currently depending on?

P: They still depend on cattle, but they have also the maize

F002: Do you farm?

P: Yes, we cultivate

F002: Why?

P: Because men used to sell cow in the past and bring money home but now we are all think what to do to get food, if he wants to sell your cow you will stop him if you don’t like. If he doesn’t want it is better for him to find you a job, also when the child is grown up they will find the work to do. But not all of them

F002: What do you do to get money?

P: We sell chicken, cattle, and goats

F002: what do you do with money in relation with food?

P: We buy food, salt, vegetable, beans and other things and then we keep them at home

F002: Do the changes of work that you do contribute to this?

P: Yes-(laughter)

F002: okay, another one, what about price changes, did this contribute to this change in any way?

P: There are changes compared to the old time, because we used to buy a bucket of maize for 25,000Tsh but now we buy for 10,000Tsh plus grinding is 11500Tsh

F002: What if you don’t have money, how is that affecting the food change?

P: If you don’t have money you will not eat

F002: So you can tell me if you don’t have money you will eat the food that is equivalent to your money?

P: Yes,

F002: How food availability, presence of much food is contributing to food changes

P: There is a lot of food, the problem is that we don’t have money

F002: Any other reason, what about food availability, how is this contributing to food changes?

P: We eat fruits

F002: Who taught you to eat that?

P: We see people eating

F002: Were banana there since the past time?

P: Yes

F002: What about the cabbage?

P: We have the cabbage now, we eat because we see people eating them

F002: mhh

P: Also, scarce or low availability of milk is contributing

F002: why that

P: because of the drought, cows are not providing enough milk

F002: mhh

P: mhh

F002: Do you have stereotyping resulted by eating a certain food?

P: Yes, there are stereotyping, but you are not supposed to laugh at someone because of that

F002: What foods if you eat people see you as well off

P: The stiff porridge made using raw maize (Laugher)

F002: What about Wagogo?

P: If you take stiff porridge with milk it is delicious but during the summer time we take vegetable instead of milk. When the cows are back in rainy seasons we turn to milk

F002: What food if consumed in MELA people see you as well off?

P: We don’t have specific because it is not town. If it were town we could have been taking tea and burns, they are good

F002: what about other this is our discussion

P: This is not town, there are no vegetable to buy there are no Banana, no cassava. We sometimes take tea and Maandazi, Rice. But sometimes you want Mandazi but the problem is the money to buy it.

F002: There are so many things that contributed to changes of food you mentioned about globalization that if you eat jute you will be perceived as poor, mama L you mentioned about development and reading, how this contributed?

P: Those who are coming (foreigner) in the village they educate us on nutrition issues, for us who are grown up we don’t understand.

F002: We have seen globalization and development; we also have seen church teaching that among of the teaching is nutritional topic. What exactly they taught you in church about nutrition?

P: They told us to change to be new person, because the word of God has changed us because we don’t go to which doctors anymore.

F002: What about the food?

P: We eat...

F002: What did they tell you about food in church?

P: We are going to seminars hence we eat various things we get amazed, they provide with banana, maandazi, bread. So, we learn there we buy bread and our children eat it.

F002: We have seen exposure with other villagers, we have seen price of food and drought contribute to food change, and also the social status. So out of these 7 issues what contributed most for people to eat other food

P: Number one is exposure to other places,

F002: What are you saying?

P: Exposure to other places

F002: What about others what are you saying?

P: 

F002: Why education is contributing for this change?

P: Children should study to become educated

F002: Why are you saying exposure/interaction can lead food changes?

P: It is because in the past we were not interacting but now we can travel and see many things. I can it cabbage

F002: So, we are agreeing that interacting/exposure(Kutembea) is the first thing-(Laughter)

P: mhh

F002: Mh what is that? Talk about the education

P: (Talking in Masai language)

F002: mhh

P: She is saying that education is the key of life because they have their children who went to school and they are educating them how things should be. So, they wish if they had this education earlier it could have moved them they have their girls and boys in school

F002: Do we agree that the education is the first thing?

P: Yes

F002: What is the second one? After education we have remained with religion, globalization, exposure or visiting other places, going to hotel or any other place

P: (Talking Masai language)..Translater-(She said is drought because in the past there were no drought also this has caused milk scarcity as there are sometimes cattle move to search for pasture in distant places so when that happen the children are fed with tea and stiff porridge so the changes of weather and climatic condition has caused changes, in the past we didn’t eat vegetable but now we eat, also we are now using tomatoes

F002: We heard about cattle movement and aridity condition as our fellow said? what else has contributed to this change?

P: I n the past there were no issues like these, through moving we learn so many things in the past you can walk from Dodoma to Moro by foot but now we have motorcycles you move faster and get foods maandazi you buy but in the past we used to prepare the food like stiff porridge you store it well in “vihari” you also take some water in the bowl when you reach at a certain point you eat if it is two days it is two days journey. I am not sure if are foreigners who brought these means of transport (Wazungu) the bicycle, motorcycle, so we have can move a bit now

F002: what is VIHARI?

P: I s bowl, cut into two pieces they sometime call them video, they can store stiff porridge and other staffs

F002: Okay we can see the third thing is globalization what others are saying? you are so quiet why are you not talking? You didn’t get what asked?

P: We understood

F002: Okay you can respond now?

P: (Quite)

F002: Tell among of these three issues what is the least contributing to food change?

P: (Quite)

F002: Let me give you an example, in the past when you were going to the ceremonies you used to take the milk in the bowl which are of different sizes. Let say we take those milk and pour it in the bucket. Who could have brought more milk?

P: The one with big bowl

F002: The big one, right? So now we are talking about food change. We have seen the Masai are eating sardines, vegetables, beans. So, what is least contributed among the issues you mentioned?

P: ( Not clearly understood what she really said)

F002: What about others?

P: In the past I used to wonder those people who were eating fish, but I just look at them, that is it, we don’t talk even if we see our brothers eating fish

F002: Let’s talk about the milk, I would like to know how is milk important in your life?

P: They are important because they are taken along with stiff porrige

F002: Why can’t you eat stiff porridge with other sources

P: mhh

F002: How milk is useful to you?

P: We have used to it

F002: mhh

P: I think is good food, you find somebody is poisoned but people quickly rush to find milk for the person to drink, is good health wise.

F002: how

P: For me the milk is good, if you don’t have food you can drink and stay until evening hours without filling hungry because they are heavy

F002: What do you mean by health?

P: If a child is not doing well you can find some milk and give it for her/him to drink.

F002: What do you mean by good health?

P: Child being strong and happy, they always want the milk

F002: How is milk important in your health

P: They build the body to be strong, the milk is medicine compared to porridge

F002: When you compare your parents in the past and now, do you think the milk is in the same importance?

P: It is important compared to the current time because in the past there were no yoghurt

F002: Why is not available

P: Because the pasture is very scarce

F002: Mbaba what is that? what is it called?

P: Lugher-I something which bring milk and make it to become yogurt

F002: What is KOTITI

P: use for milking, it is small bowl

F002: What about Wagogo, is still the milk very important to this time?

P: Yes, is still important until now, we eat vegetable, also the milk is available in Dodoma

F002: The milk availability is changed now?

P: Yes, we agree

F002: How is it now?

P: The milk is available mostly during the rainy seasons, however it is not as abundant as in the past

F002: What is the reason?

P: It is because the cows are now frequently sick not as before when they were healthy

F002: When they are treated they don’t get enough milk?

P: I am not sure, they don’t get enough milk. This is because of its sickness

mhhh

F002: What about LONJO-moving cattle to the mountain searching for pasture

P: When they go there we don’t get enough milk, as some few cows remains at home but when it very dry they all move away

F002: What is another reason than drought and moving cattle which lead to scarcity of milk?

P: mm

F002: What about the land conflict between the famers and pastoralist?

P: There are some conflicts in MELA, some pastoralist come to graze their cattle into our farm, so we won’t accept this. We report to their parents and agree on what to do, there is minor conflicts

F002: What about the changes of living style/behaviour of those youth who are going to school? Did they still go for grazing?

P: It depends with the parents some allow their children to go for grazing while others don’t go. But I wonder in this place why there are conflicts, but back to Dodoma they cultivate, and they do pastoralism and there are no conflicts. The milk there is abundant, I come here since 1999.

F002: Is the flavour/test of milk still the same

P: Yes, the same

F002: Among of the reasons you mentioned; aridity, cattle sickness, and movement. What is the first one to contribute scarcity of milk?

P: I think aridity is number one because there is no green pasture in summer time but now they are available only in rainy seasons

F002: What about others

P: There are no rains, also overpopulation of cow

F002: About cattle sickness and movement what is the second one?

P: (quite)

F002: Do you eat blood, wagogo?

P: We eat the one which are roasted with cooking oil and salt we call it NGONDE

F002: Do you eat it now?

P: We don’t we are afraid of getting sick-wagogo

F002: mhh

P: We eat-wamasai

F002: mhh

P: In the past people were mixing it with water and when you get sick you have to drink it, they also used to mix it with natural herbs

F002: Is still eating the blood the same comparing in the past and current time?

P: Now days it is not the same because you can drink the blood which is infected with diseases

F002: Another reason?

I heard in this community men take the cattle to mountains, is this for all?

P: It only men, but some even the children who are not studying goes there. The elders do not go there. For us who remain at home we take care of the children if they are going to school, and of other issues like we are here with you now

F002: What do you depend on while the cow is not around?

P: We sometimes take the cow and sell them in the auction; we also find some job

F002: What kind of the business?

P: Yes, if we don’t have food we sell the cow

F002: What kind of cow that remains at home?

P: Those with little calf and have a lot of milk

F002: When this process of moving the cattle started?

P: Is a process of long time

F002: How this have affected the community

P: We don’t have good health in dry season while in rainy seasons we become healthier

F002: Who are mostly affected

P: Is women and children because they are the ones who remains home

F002: Where do you get milk

P: We eat stiff porridge with vegetables.

F002: What do you used to cook when there are ceremonies

P: In the burial ceremonies Wamasai we used to slaughter the old cow, but now we usually cook meat, rice and beans

F002: In other celebration?

P: In the past we used to cook stiff porridge and meat in celebration, but currently we usually buy meat, vegetable, sweet potatoes and rice

F002: What about the Wagogo?

P: In the past we used to cook vegetable, rice and stiff porridge but now we cook rice...

F002: Why are these foods important now in celebration?

P: There are interaction with other people and also we are educated now

F002: Can you elaborate on that?

P: It is because there are visitors/guest that’s why we cook those food

F002: Is this cooked while there is a celebration only or?

P: It is because there is a scarcity of milk and interaction, you cannot cook stiff porridge for them, they will leave you (Laugher)

F002: Are the process used to cook meat in the past are the same to now days when you compare?

P: In the past we used to dry them and later on you cook and it becomes very delicious. We didn’t use salt in the past, but now days the meat is mixed with salt some see as good and others not

F002: It seems there are certain foods that are supposed to be eaten only during the celebration like rice and potatoes?

P: We usually eat, if some one is well off can eat rice even for three days a week,

F002: What about meat

P: In the past we used to buy goats but now Masai like money than before. They eat rice because they have money, normally we eat meat during auction day, we usually used to slaughter goats even two three etc

F002: How do divide the meat after slaughtering?

P: The women eat intestine and some parts of legs together with girls. Men eat with boys, the young one eats head.

F002: Do men also eat intestines?

P: They eat goats intestines but not ship intestine

F002: What about wagogo?

P: We divide in the middle equally but the parts of the chest, the heart, liver are for men. This is our natural tradition

F002: Do we still have that tradition

P: Yes, we still have

F002: Do you think these changes have an effect to women?

P: No,

F002: What food that are affecting the children?

P: None

F002: Who decide what to eat in the house hold?

P: Is us, it is women

F002: What made you choose that?

P: how I think

F002: How

P: It is your decision; it is the desire what you wish. you can eat vegetables for body healthy or meat for protein

F002: Another thing? what if you don’t have money to buy food that is contributing to your body blood?

P: I when you have money you go to buy, money determines

F002: Why there was no development in the past?

P: Is because we used to have plenty of food vegetables, we didn’t move from one place to the other, But we don’t have those food now

F002: There are reasons that you have mentioned that contribute to what kind of food you want to cook, these include the desire of somebody, the money and availability. Among of these issues what contribute more?

P: The money because you can buy it

F002: Another one?

P: Sometimes even if you have money there are no shops no development. It is money then the availability

F002: Now I would like to know where you get training or information about the food?

P: At the hospital if you are sick, at the clinic

F002: mhh

P: In the church they teach nutrition example vegetables, fruits

F002: Do you think these information’s are useful to you?

P: Yes, they are useful, they say eat vegetables fruits, they increase blood in the body

F002: what can we do for this information to reach many people in MELA village

P: Translator asking in local language

F002: mh

P: Seminars, public meeting, education in the church, group education to all

F002: How do you want to be taught?

P: Through teaching us, face to face, so that others will write

F002: Do you have any opinion

P: Education should continue with our families so that we can improve our life because there are a lot of drought. The education should be on food, business, life

F002: Thanks