Interviewer(s): Timothy Price
Interviewee(s): Participant 08

Timothy Price: Alright, so we can go ahead and get started with a consent sheet. So I'm going to read you a series of statements and I'll just have you answer either yes or no to each of these

Participant 08: Okay,

Timothy Price: so it does get a little bit repetitive towards the end. But, you know, here we are. All right, so the first one I confirm that I have read the information sheet for this study. I've had the opportunity to consider the information to ask questions and I've had these questions answered satisfactorily.

Participant 08: Yes.

Timothy Price: I understand that my participation is voluntary, and then I am free to withdraw it anytime without giving any reason. I also understand that I can decline to answer any questions during the interview.

Participant 08: Yes,

Timothy Price: I understand that information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study and give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

Participant 08: Yes.

Timothy Price: I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for use in future research or teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymized first.

Participant 08: Yeah.

Timothy Price: I understand that the interview will be audio video recorded according to my preference typed out and that all identifying personal details will be removed.

Participant 08: Yeah

Timothy Price: I understand that direct quotations may be taken from what I say and used in research or publications, but that I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

Participant 08: Yes

Timothy Price: I agree to take part in this study.

Participant 08: Yes

Timothy Price: Excellent. And then there's just two other things here. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. You can either tell me that. Now, or you can email me after our interview if you'd like to get a summary at the end of the study.

Participant 08: That's great. Yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. So I can send those to your email address that we corresponded on once I finish my dissertation, so towards the end of August, you can expect to see that. Yeah, um, and if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents I can mail you those.

Participant 08: No, don't worry. Soft copies of things is fine.

Timothy Price: Okay, perfect.

Um, so that's out of the way we can move on to some of the questions here. So can you tell me a little bit about your child. Like, how old are they? You said he, right?

Participant 08: Yeah, he’s [Child]. He's coming up to two and a half in two weeks. He was born in January 2018. He's obviously currently mainly at home, he's back at nursery two days a week now.

Timothy Price: Yeah. How is he doing at home? or maybe the better question is, how are you doing with having him at home?

Participant 08: Yeah, you know, it took a few weeks to, to shake down into a routine. I've been splitting childcare with my husband, he's also working from home. So it's taken a while to get used to. But we were all fine. And I think the university has been pretty good in terms accomodating.

Timothy Price: Yeah, its nice to hear that.

Participant 08: And then obviously He's back in nursery two days, which he's loving. But coming back very tired. So that's changed the dynamic a bit again. But no, it's been okay.

Timothy Price: Yeah, I'm sure it's nice to have him back at nursery, just so that he can see some other faces and interact with some other people.

Participant 08: Yeah, he loves other children.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Um, so he's your only child. Is that right? yeah.

Participant 08: Yeah, that's right.

Timothy Price: Okay. Um, so, and what's his name again?

Participant 08: [Child].

Timothy Price: [Child], right sorry I know you said that.

Participant 08: Thats okay, don't worry.

Timothy Price: So can you tell me a little bit about what you know about the flu? Just sort of your first impressions when you hear the word flu?

Participant 08: Hmm. Um, I guess. I mean, I've had the flu, maybe twice in my life as a teenager and as a fresher. Both times were horrendous not, not something I would ever wish on anyone and I know that it can be more dangerous that folder people pregnant women, children. I used to get given a flu vaccine when I worked for a private company. They used to pay for staff to have them. And I've always thought that was a really good idea because it's just an unpleasant illness. It's preventable obviously. I guess the vaccine depends on whether they've identified the most virulent strain that year. And there are other strains and things going around. So it's not foolproof. But yeah, just what I know about it is that flu is pretty contagious, pretty unpleasant illness I guess that affects people globally.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Can you tell me what sort of like, if [Child] was coming down with the flu, what symptoms would you expect to see him developing? What things would tip you off that he was coming down with flu?

Participant 08: A high temperature. Obviously he's, if he's quite young child so crying, very sort of flushed... what else would I expect? Maybe, maybe sort of clammy, sweaty, not sleeping, very clingy, off his food. I mean, so many childhood diseases start with those symptoms but those, those are the, what I would expect to see.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Is it something you think, like does it come on really fast, or is it something that is, you know, kind of a slower, like most childhood illnesses like you sort of see it over a few days?

Participant 08: Yeah, I'm not. I hadn't thought about that. I guess I would consider it something that came on over, say, one to two days. I wouldn't think of it as being a really slow burner. I wouldn't think of something appearing overnight.But I might be wrong about that. I think you'd get that sense of them starting to be a bit on well a bit wingey and then get that temperature. Maybe going floppy if it got really bad.

Timothy Price: Sure, yeah. With with children, his age, I think so much of it is about you know, kind of reading what you can see, because of course you know that they cant tell you. You know, I've got a headache. I've got this. I've got that. So it's a lot of it. I think comes down to just what you see happening.

Participant 08: Right, yeah.

Timothy Price: So do you worry about [Child] getting the flu? Is that something you know if you heard, kind of, if you knew that [Child] was going to get the flu. Is that something that worry you, or is it something you know, of course you don't want it to happen. But would it be concerning or something that you wouldn't be too worried about?

Participant 08: You know, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about that kind of thing. Um, I think if it happened, or if we knew that say there'd been flu going round his nursery, or he'd been sort of exposed that we would keep a really close eye on him and, you know, take him to someone as soon as we saw anything coming on, I guess. I guess my knowledge is limited in terms of what can be done for children, once they've got it. I hadn't really, yeah I haven't really thought about that. It's not something that occupies me in terms of, you know, worrying about whether it gets this, that, or the other. I'm not sure there's much that can be done to prevent it unless you really wrap them in in cotton wool and don't take them anywhere. And obviously with coronavirus this has been, it's been a very interesting one because you know, nobody's going anywhere but with children are not that not that at risk. Whereas in flu I know can be quite dangerous for young children, which is presumably why they offer a vaccine. He didn't get he wasn't eligible for for one this year, which I found frustrating because He was in childcare and, you know, but

Timothy Price: So this, is his birthday just before, I think it's like late August or something?

Participant 08: Yeah, he turned two in January. So I don't know. He just missed the cutoff.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So can you explain to me what you think, you sort of already did, but can you explain what you think getting sick with the flu is like for kids in terms of, I guess, would you think that the symptoms are any different between adults and children, how long would you expect them to be ill for, you know, that kind of thing?

Participant 08: Yeah, I guess I don't, I guess, I don't know, I guess when I had flu. I was sick for about... It was quicker than a cold, so five days? For five days. I guess with children. I guess it would be quick. I guess it would be sort of two, three days, really. I imagine it would peak quickly. But again, that is complete speculation and having not seen a child with the flu and not actually looked into it as much as I possibly could. You're making me think I need to research this a bit more. You know, and I imagine it would be very confusing for them. And I imagine it would progress quickly in children.

Timothy Price: Yeah, no., don't worry about it. Part of what I'm doing is just trying to learn, you know, kind of, how much parents know about the flu. And if you don't, you know, if you're not confident in what you know that's that's interesting as well. So, you know, no worries about that at all. Okay. Um, so I think you actually just said. So you don't know anyone whose child has gotten sick with the flu. Is that right?

Participant 08: Yeah, no, I don't.

Timothy Price: So if you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu, you know, anything from symptoms to who is at risk, just kind of anything about the flu, where would you go to get that information?

Participant 08: I generally just go to the Internet and the NHS website. I find really, it's really helpful. It's quite a balanced View. I mean, if I guess if I put something into Google NHS comes up quite high and then people like the Mayo Clinic come up as well. And I always think it's interesting to see a different point of view, from different countries because you get, you know, a slightly different take on it and different um... I think, take that I take into account that the NHS is sometimes very... um, I'm not sure what the word is. Not modest but quite... is very kind of Restrained sometimes in some of its advice. So I find it interesting to kind of get get other advice from, from what I see as reputable sources, but it will be medical websites.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So you said Mayo Clinic. Are there any others that come to mind or is it just sort of, you know, you kind of make a decision as your going?

Participant 08: It's not and sometimes they're sort of, maybe not for the flu, but for other things I've looked at before kind of specialist charities websites, I think, a really useful source of information.

Timothy Price: Yeah, sure. Um, have you ever talked to your child's GP or another medical professional about the flu.

Participant 08: No.

Timothy Price: Is that because you haven't had any reason to or you know--

Participant 08: I've never suspected of them have enough having the flu. It's not something that either my partner or I've had since having him. And I just know that he was too young to receive the vaccine. I think had we gotten the vaccine and maybe looked into it a bit more Id've discussed it with the GP. But, you know, in general, I know we'll talk about vaccines, I'm sure, but that but that's sort of doesn't concern me, giving him a vaccine. So no, it's not something we've discussed

Timothy Price: Sure, yeah, so you've sort of led me into my next my next questions here. What do you think the benefits are of having your child get the flu vaccine?

Participant 08: I'd say that in my mind that they are much less likely to get flu is major benefits. And, and also much less likely to spread Flu within the community and it's sort of protective against, you know, for other people in the community as well.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So do you think that, I'm curious about that sort of protective benefit, you know, protecting the community as well as your child. Do you think that's something that you would have thought about before, sort of the coronavirus started going around? Because there's been so much emphasis put on, you know, everybody having an obligation to protect the community. Is that something you had thought about before this or is it something that's come to your attention after the fact?

Participant 08: Yeah, its an interesting question really. I think it would be something I thought about before mainly related to measles outbreaks. I know that there were, there are certain parts of the country where the vaccine uptake is very low, certain parts of the you know, the world where vaccine uptake is is low. And in those places they've had quite big outbreaks of measles and so I guess it would be related to them. Yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that's interesting. So it's it's seeing that vaccinating for measles has an important community protecting effect that has sort of transfered to you feeling that the flu vaccine also has that same effect.

Participant 08: Yeah, I've got no scientific evidence for that, actually, but that's, that's how I feel about vaccines in general, I guess I feel like that's, that's it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so what do you think the downsides are of having your child get the flu vaccine and downsides can be? You know, not just side effects, but you know like inconvenience would be a downside, cost would be a downside. You know, kind of, kind of any any downsides that you can think of.

Participant 08: Um, obviously, the side effects for me would be would be the, the only worry, or the main one. You know, that possibility that they will be unwell for a couple of days or feel under the weather. Theres the possibility I guess that it might not make a difference and they maybe had it unnecessarily. But for me, that's not a downside. I think it's protected. I can't think of any other downside. He's not gonna remember the pain of a needle. If it is a needle. I assume it's a needle, but it might be one of those sugar cube ones. I don't know. Yeah, no, I can't think of any downsides.

Timothy Price: Sure. No, that's, that's fine. So if you want to learn more about a vaccination. Is that something you know, it could be anything from, like, who is it recommended for, does he need it, what are the benefits, what are the downsides. Where do you go to do that kind of learning? Is that also something you do on the internet or is it something you're more likely to talk to a medical professional about?

Participant 08: So, certainly when he was he was little and he had vaccines I, because it was a schedule of vaccines and you'd be going in for one and then you'd be talking about when the next set were I would talk with the nurse, probably, who was giving them. Occasionally the GP about the next set and what those were about and and you know what they covered and sort of benefits or not of those. Now that he's away from that regular schedule I don't feel I really had an opportunity to talk to a medical professional about those. I guess I will get a letter or whatever from the surgery when it's time for him to have his three and a half year vaccines and which will sort of coincide with this flu season as well. I guess it will be must be October or something. And I don't feel, I mean, I could. I feel like I could ring the doctors. I don't have any concerns. If I did, I would just go to the NHS website and I would just solely probably use a British, the British NHS website for for that research.

Timothy Price: For learning about vaccines. Yeah. Um, is there a reason that you would have a more narrow focus to just resources from the NHS for learning about vaccines or is that, you know? Can you kind of explain that a little to me?

Participant 08: Well, I guess I don't know what the policy is in the US. I don't know how it differs. I don't know. Or, you know, Australia, or whatever. I don't know whether the drug used is the same, I don't know whether they even vaccination. It's the same types of flu, whether any of that. So I just feel like it's a more specific solution in the, you know, I feel like flu is a general illnesses, the same all over the world, different strains, obviously. Um, but the vaccine is you know something specifically the NHS is paid for and will be distributing and therefore it's always you know them I would go to for that.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so it's, it sounds like what you're saying is it's less about a fear of inaccurate information and more just, you don't, it's not relevant. Information coming out of other countries just aren't relevant to you.

Participant 08: Yeah, yeah.

Timothy Price: Okay. So have you ever talked to your GP, or like any medical professional, maybe it's GP or a nurse or anybody about the flu vaccine in particular?

Participant 08: No. I've had the flu vaccine several times and never queried it. It's just been like, well, this is a vaccine, I'll have it. I don't personally, I've never had an any, but I've had friends who've had negative side effects and reactions against vaccines. I've been very fortunate I haven't had any to anything I've taken or anything I've had vaccine wise, no. So no, I haven't had any conversations with them there.

Timothy Price: Yeah, sure. Um, so you mentioned that [Child] was not able to have the flu vaccine this year, right?

Participant 08: That's right.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So how did you find out that he was not eligible. Did you try to get the vaccine. Can you speak to that a little?

Participant 08: Yeah, so I looked up. I remember thinking, "Oh, is that I think that children have? I need to look that up." I'm thinking he looks like he's in the ineligible bit and I have a support group of NCT. Do you know about the NCT, Natural Childbirth Trust?

Timothy Price: I'm not familiar, no.

Participant 08: So they're are national charity and they run antenatal classes for parents to be all over the country. They're a charity, you pay for the course and it's extremely popular course preparing you for childbirth, but generally you're sort of buying friends and a support network for when you have the baby. I have a close group of those friends, of six of us on on WhatsApp. So I guess I go to my peers. I remember there was a discussion on there about the flu vaccine because somebody was considering going to private for the flu vaccine. And I think that's what prompted me as well to look it up and just see whether I, you know, thought we needed to go down that route or it would just leave it.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Was that someone, can you remember, is that someone whose child was below the eligibility age?

Participant 08: Yeah, they're all the same age. They're all born around January 2018.

Timothy Price: So is that something that you considered going with a private option for? Or was it when you saw that it wasn't recommended by the NHS that you just thought, "No, I'm not gonna bother with that"?

Participant 08: That's basically, I think I vaguely entertained the idea and then thought they would, if it was really dangerous for his age group. If I thought he was at really a mortal danger risk than I would expect the NHS to have that covered off, and they dont. I didn't, so I guess I trust it, them, and I did look into it and decided it wasn't, it wasn't worth it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Um, but you had said earlier on that you did want [Child] to have it and that you were, were frustrated by that. So would you say it was really important to you that he would have it this year, or was it something that you know, like. Can you speak to a little bit? Was it something you were upset about when you learned that he wasn't eligible or was it something that was more just like "oh okay if that's what they said."

Participant 08: I was a bit frustrated as it was a bit frustrating. Mainly because I think, I think, I assume that what the NHS were doing by cutting off younger children was assuming that all those younger children are at home with their parents and the reason for giving them, you know, I think the reason given given for giving it them after three or two and a half, whatever it is age cutoff is because they're more likely to be in a child care setting. Whereas you know, quite a lot of children these days are in a childcare setting from sort of 10 months. So I found that a bit frustrating, but again, in that sort of trust sense, I thought all this is, this is the way it is. And this year, yeah, if he's entitled to it and they feel like his age group should have it, I will definitely make sure he has it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so is it something. Do you think that the fact that he is in a childcare setting, that he goes to nursery. Do you think that's something that makes you a little more concerned that

He could be exposed to flu like is it something you think you worried about more when he is in nursery or is it something you worry about the same as before?

Participant 08: Oh definitely, yeah. I definitely worry more in general for all sort of those infectious diseases. You know, he picks up cold really easily like any kid of his age and whenever he gets a cold, he gets a secondary ear infection. So for me, it's sort of unpleasant long process, getting an infection out of him. And so yeah I really, I'd really, that's been one of the upsides of having him at home, he's had no ear infections at all from between February and now. So certainly something I definitely, I don't worry about it, but I'm much more aware of the fact that he's much more likely to get poorly.

Timothy Price: So it sounds like that's would be another sort of benefit of vaccination is that, you know, of course, the primary interest is that he's healthy and he's safe but the sort of secondary benefit is as a parent, you don't have to kind of deal with having a sick child in the house for weeks at a time.

Participant 08: Oh yeah. And you don't him to be, you know he doesn't understand. It's awful for them when they're sick and its awful for the parents. Nobody gets any sleep and it's really worrying. So anything you can do to avoid that kind of pain. It's yeah, I think it's a benefit.

Timothy Price: Absolutely. Makes sense to me. Um, so I do have just a couple other questions, sort of about vaccine in general and sort of your thoughts around that. So has [Child] had the other sort of routine childhood vaccinations?

Participant 08: Yeah, yeah he's had all of those.

Timothy Price: Yeah, and was that something. Can you tell me a little bit about how you decided he should be vaccinated for those or do you feel like it was a decision at all? You know, can you speak to that?

Participant 08: Not a decision. I mean, for us it was just absolute he's having vaccinations. It was never, it was never a conversation. It was never a yes or no, it was just this is his vaccination schedule. My husband's not medically trained, but he's a medicinal chemistry. I'm not a scientist but you know I was vaccinated as a child.I think its one of the great, you know, wonders of the modern world. It would be stupid to turn it down.

Timothy Price: Yeah sure, I can completely understand that. So it was, I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly, it was just because, you know, they're available you trust the science and kind of the medical institutions.

Participant 08: Yeah, and I don't see the downside. So even if something is less effective than maybe it's advertised to be, or should be, or if something. I don't know, if the evidence, if it's seen as an unnecessary actually if you look into it and you realize that young children aren't at that much risk from certain diseases and it's sort of an enormous and unnecessary injection that's for other people to decide for me. There's no downside of having it. So that's, yeah. I guess that's how I feel.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And you mentioned earlier to that your thinking was, like, even if it's an unnecessary injection. It's such a quick, you know, thing, and he's not going to remember it anyway.

Participant 08: Exactly, yeah.

Timothy Price: Have you personally had the flu vaccine this year.

Participant 08: No.

Timothy Price: Is that, do you think that's just because it wasn't available or was that a decision kind of that you made.

Participant 08: I wasn't on the list for this winter so it wasn't, it wasn't a consideration. I don't consider myself to be in a high risk group.

Timothy Price: Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

Participant 08: I had it when I was pregnant with him.

Timothy Price: Okay, so, yeah. So when you were pregnant with them and you were part of a high risk group. Was that something you got through the GP?

Participant 08: Through the GP yeah. Because it was available. I wouldn't pay. As I said, I used to take advantage of it when my private employer paid for it. But it's not something I would pay for for myself.

Timothy Price: Yeah, you just don't see sort of the the sort of the cost in that situation--

Participant 08: You know I don't even know how much it would cost. Its a funny one because you think well I cared enough to give it a bit done when the nurse came round but it was because it was just there and available and didn't require any administration, didn't require any money. And but then it's, then that thinking about as a next step, I don't consider it a high risk enough illness me at this stage of life that I would, I would feel like I needed to pay for it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, well, there's an I think there's a lot of other costs there to, you know, maybe not monetary costs, but you have to take the time out of your day to figure out where to go. You have to actually go there, you need to kind of go through the whole process and pay the money. So I think it makes sense that if you're not worried about having flu yourself that the costs of that, you know, kind of all the costs would outweigh the benefit that you would get from the vaccine.

Participant 08: Yeah absolutely..

Timothy Price: Yeah, that makes sense to me. So that is sort of the last of my questions. So what I just like to kind of close on. Is there anything else that you'd like to say about the flu or the flu vaccine or vaccination in general, anything that I didn't ask about that you'd like to speak to?

Participant 08: And no I don't, I don't think so. I think you've made me think I might look at my look it up in a bit more detail. You know, and just and just educate myself a bit more about kind of risk factors for young children. Not only up having the vaccine. Actually, but more about having the flu, because you know that's not something I've necessarily looked into that much. And no, I think that's it. Thank you.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. The NHS website has some really great resources for parents when I started my dissertation, that's where I did my first research. I went to the NHS website and did some reading all about flu and you know how it affects children and everything. So if you are interested thats definitely the place to start, would be with the NHS website.

Participant 08: Yeah, great.

Timothy Price: I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording here.