Semi-structured interview transcript with Interviewee #8 (Industry: IT)
Interviewer(s): Interviewer
Interviewee(s): Interviewee H

Interviewer: Hi (participating change leader), thanks again for finding the time and energy to participate in our followup research on change leadership in your organization. This time you get to tell your side of the story, and complement your change recipients’ reported perceptions. Just as last time, all GDPR actions still apply, and this interview is being recorded. The only purpose for this meeting being recorded is the transcript which is required for the qualitative analysis, however neither the video nor the audio of this meeting will ever be publicly displayed, nor will your identity or the identity of your organization be disclosed. If you do not agree to this, please let me know and we will stop the recording and our interview. Other than that, today’s protocol is fairly simple. First, we will go through a round of so-called “quick- draw” questions, which is designed as a warm up exercise. I give you a quick question, and then you answer with one or two words max. After we complete this round, we move onto the actual stories, where I will ask you to recollect a certain incident, and to retell it to us in as much detail as you deem appropriate. I may ask you a followup question, but the general idea is to give you enough space to tell us a story without being interrupted. We are not interested in names, and in case some of these names find their way into our transcript, I’m going to redact them and use a generic term to replace them. If you agree with the aforementioned, let’s get started. What was the biggest challenge during implementation?

Interviewee H: Get the management to see the value of the project and act as ambassadors of change

Interviewer: And if your organizational change project could be perceived as a story… Who was the protagonist?

Interviewee H: HR manager (me)

Interviewer: Who was the antagonist?

Interviewee H: Few senior employees accustomed to the old HR-less way of working

Interviewer: What inciting moment motivated the protagonist to start the journey (the what if…)?

Interviewee H: The biggest motivation was actually internal - it was the belief that the entire company could benefit from decent HR department

Interviewer: What was the biggest conflict?

Interviewee H: Fighting against the negative image created by a couple of senior managers

Interviewer: What would be the genre of this story?

Interviewee H: From my perspective, it was an adventure with a dash of comedy and pinch of drama

Interviewer: What would be the moral of this story?

Interviewee H: Stay true to yourself and the rest will sort itself out

Interviewer: What was the dark inversion of this story (good gone bad, or bad gone good)?

Interviewee H: The person who I saw as my biggest ally, turned out to be the heaviest burden on my journey.

Interviewer: What is your most frequently used metaphor?

Interviewee H: If the mountain won't come to Muhammad, Muhammad must go to the mountain.

Interviewer: What is your biggest revelation?

Interviewee H: I didn’t use all the resources that were at my disposal

Interviewer: Talk me through an anecdote which demonstrates how change recipients were behaving when they had no knowledge of the upcoming organizational change.

Interviewee H: The company I worked for existed for 27 years without an HR department. Everything people related was handled with a laissez-faire attitude and with none or little consistency. They liked it that way because it didn’t feel stiff and corporate.

Interviewer: Could you recall how the knowledge of organizational change was initially started?

Interviewee H: Upon my arrival, I quickly became aware that I was basically on my own. Management was showing no interest and my job was to sparkle some in them.

Interviewer: How did you articulate the “awakening” moment where the organizational change was formally initiated?

Interviewee H: I decided to use my first weeks to introduce myself and the HR function to everyone in the company. I wanted them to get a glimpse of me as a person, but at the same I wanted them to see what benefits they could get from having a dedicated HR person in their working environment. The “tool” I chose on that quest was one funny (at least I thought it was funny) and informative PowerPoint presentation.

Interviewer: How did change recipients express doubt towards the change project?

Interviewee H: One of the biggest doubts people had was that my arrival meant that everything will become more strict, rigid and corporate. Everyone was pretty vocal about that, and didn’t regard my feelings particularly. They spoke about me as if I wasn’t present in the room and complained about what could be one of the outcomes. Open communication is something that is really (in theory) valued in the agency environment.

Interviewer: Could you recall an anecdote of how you addressed this challenge?

Interviewee H: I tried to make it all seem fun and “light”. I remember attaching a Toby Flenderson (not so popular HR character from The Office) meme on one of my PowerPoint slides. Also I always emphasized that I also hate corporate environments and that I will never make a big change in the company without consulting its employees first.

Interviewer: Talk me through an example of growing reluctance to accept the change and who was challenging you the most?

Interviewee H: Unfortunately, I can’t single out just one person… Creative department was most reluctant to accept the change. I’m still not sure was it just because of the personalities of Creative directors (people who are department heads/team leads to all creatives at the company) or was it because of the nature of their job (not so structured or easily definable). As everything in life, truth is probably somewhere in between.

Interviewer: How did you manage to achieve “acceptance”?

Interviewee H: I didn’t achieve universal acceptance. Some of the team leaders accepted my endeavors and for that reason their team members were mostly receptive as well. How did I manage their acceptance? By showing up when they needed me, demonstrating how their job can be easier because the HR department but also by showing them my personality and “human” side. Some of the team leaders stayed reluctant and did the bare minimum just so no one would call them out for being a bad team player.

Interviewer: What exactly did you communicate to change recipients?

Interviewee H: I always asked for feedback. Knowing what made sense to them and what they saw as irrelevant was a really important part in entire change implementation journey of mine.

Interviewer: Could you recall how change recipients experimented with available knowledge after accepting change?

Interviewee H: I can’t recall one specific event. All Change recipients started to include me in people related questions and ask for my advice where they thought it would come in handy. At first it was hard for them to distinguish what is and what isn’t my area of responsibility. It was my duty to guide them through that process. For example, it is not HRs responsibility to provide feedback to people, but HR can and should help team leaders when they need to give feedback.

Interviewer: What would you say was the moment of “big change” that initiated this positive change in attitudes of change recipients?

Interviewee H: I wouldn't say there was one moment of “big change”. As I said in one of the previous questions the positive change was visible in some of the change recipients while others stayed reluctant through the entire process. Those who accepted the change needed some time to start trusting me so it was more of a process and less of a “aha moment” thing.

Interviewer: Who did you reach out to first when experimenting after this “big change”?

Interviewee H: My biggest supporters were definitely the company's CFO, Head of Digital and one Account Director.

Interviewer: Could you recall an anecdote of how these events went?

Interviewee H: There were some issues at this stage as well… Even though my supporters were highly ranked people in the company, the problem was that some of them weren’t really popular with other colleagues. With this knowledge I have after everything is behind me, I would choose my allies more carefully.

Interviewer: What exactly did you communicate to your change recipients after they expressed doubt for the second time?

Interviewee H: I always tried to cope with every doubt they had individually. It was my opinion that my change leaders would be more open while talking with me privately. So to answer this question more precisely, I told everyone I was open for criticism but I asked them to be as precise as they can and give me real examples of situations that made them question the change I was trying to make.

Interviewer: Could you recall who was the loudest and how you addressed these comments?

Interviewee H: The loudest was one of the Account Directors who joined the company almost one year after my arrival. In her opinion, I was very biased and didn’t treat everyone equally. She was convinced that I held back some information from her. After I became aware she felt that way, I introduced a 1-on-1 bi-monthly meeting to our schedules to regularly address every relevant topic.

Interviewer: Talk me through how you handled this second round of growing reluctance among change recipients.

Interviewee H: My goal was to gain (and in some cases regain) trust among change recipients. My new “modus operandi” was to carefully plan the speed of implementing new processes. Slow and steady wins the race. Everyone remembers the tale of turtle and rabbit, right?

Interviewer: What were the biggest obstacles during this stage?

Interviewee H: Frankly, the biggest obstacle during this stage was the occurrence of the Covid19 situation that opened up a whole new set of challenges. The entire agency switched from “growth mode” to “survival mode” and it was really difficult for me to pursue my initial agenda.

Interviewer: Could you recall the most difficult conversation you’ve had to manage during this phase?

Interviewee H: Instead of going forward, this stage sent me a few steps backwards. One of my main tasks was to determine criteria for lowering wages and letting people go. The most difficult conversations in that period were communicating those changes and later on explaining them to people who weren’t directly affected by them (but they had a lot of empathy for their colleagues).

Interviewer: Could you recall an anecdote covering the regression of change recipients from the stage of accepting change towards resisting change again.

Interviewee H: The episodes that really stuck with me were when people didn’t believe in the structured process of introducing COVID measures. This was a huge setback in implementing every HR process in general because people felt like HR was working against them. Great example of how people wanted to “rebel” against said measures was the episode when they wanted to start a petition to rehire a colleague who got fired.

Interviewer: What were the most important insights from this stage in your opinion?

Interviewee H: The most important insight I gained during this period is that I underestimated the power of emotions at the workplace. I always thought that ratio is stronger in a business environment, but after this experience I will always keep in mind the strength emotions possess.

Interviewer: Who was the most resilient and how did you handle this challenge?

Interviewee H: The most resilient change recipients were people who were resilient from the start. Eventually I accepted the fact that I can’t have everyone on board and eager to change as I would like them to be. Still, I tried to keep them engaged, informed and asked for feedback regularly.

Interviewer: Talk me through the process of reawakening change acceptance within change recipients.

Interviewee H: Two months after infamous COVID measures, everything was (relatively) back to normal and I was (kinda) back on track. I had numerous meetings with my main stakeholders to prioritize our next moves. In my opinion, co-creation of a new plan was a crucial key for reigniting the fire of change acceptance.

Interviewer: How did you manage to achieve it and what were the early signs of them experiencing reawakening?

Interviewee H: I firmly believed that the change I was proposing would benefit everyone. I stayed consistent, open and I think a lot of people recognized and respected that.

Interviewer: Who was your strongest ally at this stage?

Interviewee H: People who were by my side from the beginning of this journey. CFO, Head of Digital, one of the Account Directors. Interesting thing was that I gathered a significant number of supporters in the lower levels of hierarchy as well. That showed me I was on the right track.

Interviewer: What were the first signs of successful transformation with change recipients?

Interviewee H: I asked every single employee to give their feedback on HR during the 360 evaluation process in the company. Results were much better than I expected. Some teams were still pretty resilient, but the situation wasn’t critical. Everyone (event the critics) saw something positive in this org change.

Interviewer: How did you recognize the occurrence of true mastery in accepting change?

Interviewee H: I left the company before the change was fully accepted. But some of the strongest signs of change acceptance in my last few months was that my loudest “opponents” were slowly getting on board and were even providing me with constructive feedback.

Interviewer: What is the main point you managed to get across?

Interviewee H: Organizational change is not a (sprint) race, it is a marathon. Good alliance planning and a lot of co- creation are must-haves when you’re trying to implement a huge organizational change.

Interviewer: What do you think is the most important thing to highlight here?

Interviewee H: You can plan all you want, but you must also expect the unexpected. For example, my plans were shaken to the core with COVID19 pandemic (external factor nobody could have predicted).

Interviewer: Great, with that being said, I think we’ve got enough material to analyze. Thank you very much for taking the time to go through these details.

Interviewee H: No problem! Thanks for showing interest in my change project (both laugh).