Interviewer(s): I017
Interviewee(s): KI056

I017: For the time you have lived here, I would like to know, why have you been selected as influential person in the village?

KI056: Because I know the history of the village since it started up to date, and also I am the leader of ten houses in the village.

I017: As you have said, you have been a leader of ten houses in the villages, for how long have you been in that position?

KI056: From 2015, because since the villages were distributed, it was only one ward as Mela, and before then it used to be called Mlandizi, and other pastoralist shifted to Mela. Mela was part of Melela, and later on it was divided, that is when Mela acquired a status of a village.

I017: We came here in February, comparing February up to October (2017) are there any changes that you haven observed in your village?

KI056: A lot of changes have occurred Education on how to reduce the number of cattle, myself was a member in different meetings even to meet with top leaders. We were resistant at first; but later on we came to realise that the government had no bad intentions; it is when last month we came to agree and accept the idea that our cattle should be stamped for identification, and to reduce the herd size as well.

I017: About the education that you were given, who was the provider?

KI056: The government

I017: What did they emphasise on, how many cattle is a person supposed to own?

KI056: They emphasised mostly on having enough cattle that will bring development to the family or even the village.

I017: What was the response of the villagers?

KI056: At first we didn’t want to hear and accept about it, because we didn’t know any other activity or livelihood apart from keeping livestock. Our children are in schools because we sell livestock to get fees and school requirements. Also a person eats depending on livestock, but after the government gave us education about it, it is when we came to realise the importance of it. Even when MR. president said about “TANZANIA YA VIWANDA” “INDUSTRIALISED TANZANIA”, as we should depend on our own e.g. Meat, milk etc. so we came to the agreement about cattle/livestock herd reduction in order to reduce conflicts between farmers and pastoralists.

I017: How having a lot of cattle’s/livestock lead to conflict?

KI056: Some pastoralists are having a lot of cattle like 1000 of them and during the dry season when there is no enough pasture, so it’s either to buy pasture from one another or move to look for pasture and water, so due to that is when they tend to land on someone’s farm where animals then feed on crops and this how conflicts occur.

I017: Thank you, you said earlier on that you were born here; comparing 15 years back, are the rich/poor households increasing or decreasing?

KI056: It is hard to say but I will try, because Maasai always stay as a family, you may find there are 2000 cattle in one place but only 50 people live in that compound, eat and do everything together. But for now things have changed, poor households are recognised as they depend on themselves or even when they ask for help no one offer them support. It is because of the history as it is not common to help others. Therefore one cannot just help because he has seen that others are not helping one another who are in need. This situation has made children who are in need not to go to school due to lack of school fees and no members of community are willing to offer support.

I017: Are poor household increasing or decreasing comparing to 10-15 years back?

KI056: they decreased at some point and increased also. But what I can say generally poor households have increased.

I017: Are rich households increased or decreased?

KI056: They have increased.

I017: What has led to this increase?

KI056: Due to business activities, sometimes when someone is so in-need they sell at least cattle in order to get the money.

I017: When you talk about rich families/households, what exactly do you look at?

KI056: In Mela, when you say someone is rich first has a lot of cattle and can be able to eat 3 meals per day.

I017: When you talk about a lot of cows/cattle what exactly is the number do you mean?

KI056: From 200 cattle onwards.

I017: We have seen rich households have increased so as poor households. Have you also seen any other changes concerning foods and lifestyles in general?

KI056: Changes that we have seen is agriculture. Many people nowadays are into agriculture especially maize production because they cannot depend only on milk, because milk is just like water or sauce for Maasai.

I017: What made you start eating other kinds of foods?

KI056: Living together as we all know before the Maasai did not know any other activity apart from livestock keeping, but later they have learned about agriculture. This happened when they shifted to Sangasanga. In 1980 they shifted again to Mlandizi, that’s when the Maasai got themselves into agriculture with others. So the main reason is living together with other people in the community apart from living in isolation i.e. Maasai only.

I017: So, you said that farmers made the Maasai society change. Is it you who shifted to their community or they shifted to your community?

KI056: we were partners before everyone shifted to their own place.

I017: What tribe made you start ploughing or agriculture?

KI056: Different tribes but for the case of our village the Gogos made us plough.

I017: When did it start, that Maasai started to interact with other tribes and led to these changes?

KI056: All the changes started in 2000. However there were others who left the village because they did not want to interact with others.

I017: Where exactly did that other tribe come from?

KI056: For example Gogos are from Dodoma

I017: Thank you, now would like to know, the interaction with other tribes, what effect has it brought to the community?

KI056: When you plough you get benefit after selling the products or even use for home consumption.

I017: Are there any effects that have occurred?

KI056: In our community there is no any effect that has occurred, but we can talk about health, Maasai used to use those local medicines, but when we started to interact with others, they now changed and tend to use other medicines as well, also getting married to Swahili women which was not normal and due to that is when HIV was noticed in the village. I as a leader decided to start a small training to people in the community about AIDS which was called EAPS ( EDUCATION OF AIDS FOR PASTORALIST SOCIETY).

I017: How are those changes affecting diet of children and women?

KI056: No much because others still do not eat foods like fish, sardines, eggs, chicken, though there are some of them eat, even my wife do not know how to cook them.

I017: So, where exactly do you get to eat that kind of food?

KI056: At the hotels or restaurants

I017: For all the changes in diet and doing business, do you see any benefit from it?

KI056: Yes, because in the past we didn’t know that we are lacking some of the nutrients from the foods that we were not consuming like cassava, fish, and chicken but now we plough cassava and eat other kinds of foods.

I017: Thank you, apart from interaction with other tribes what else made you eat other kinds of foods?

KI056: Education, as for me I took my ordinary level studies at Kigurunyembe Secondary School, it’s when I started eating all kinds of food, which also I learned how to prepare them Also the education we get from different NGOs that tend to visit us most of the time.

I017: With the education you get, how does it help the household?

KI056: NGO’S from SUA taught us on importance and groups of foods, and how to prepare them at households.

I017: Are there any challenges in the society/village that lead to shortage of food?

KI056: Shortage of food, Yes, especially for poor households that depend on agriculture, but not for rich households that do not depend on agriculture. We have fertile soil and land but lack of education on how to cultivate other staples is causing food shortage.

I017: What makes the families lack food for a long period of time, like for a year?

KI056: ??????

I017: Is there any specific place where everyone takes their staple and non-staples for sell?

KI056: Yes, there is exactly place for selling.

I017: So, when you need food or other stuffs where exactly do you get?

KI056: from Nearby villages

I017: What about availability of water?

KI056: There are those who depend so much on rain so they wait for the rainy season.

I017: What about water to use at home?

KI056: It is available, but there is a bit of challenge because the well was built by the World Bank, so it pumps water to different places even students also get some for their use.

I017: Do you think lack/shortage of water leads to shortage of food in the household?

KI056: Irrigation system has made it easier to grow crops off-season, but also during the rainy season; you just prepare your field accordingly because rainy seasons are known.

I017: What challenges do the villagers get concerning water use at home?

KI056: Challenges, tap breakdown, congestion of people at the time of water collection because everyone depends on that well, In order to solve this problem, probably another well should be built.

I017: When there is shortage of food in the household, what do you do overcome the situation?

KI056: Well, if situation has occurred, you just sell one cow which you know exactly you get enough money to cover up the situation at home.

I017: How much does it cost for a cow now?

KI056: It depends with the situation it ranges from 500,000 to 700,000 TZS.

I017: So for those who are not well what do they do, if others are doing business?

KI056: For the ones that cannot do business, they will just pass around to the neighbours and ask for help just for that day.

I017: What do others do if the household does not have enough food?

KI056: Look for help from the neighbours or just pray to God.

I017: What about to slaughter cattle?

KI056: For us Maasai, yes we do slaughter and eat a lot but for now we have reduced, we are after money.

I017: Why do you prefer money to food?

KI056: Education, because when we slaughter everyone come to eat even the enemy which I don’t like.

I017: How many times do you slaughter in a month?

KI056: For now it can even pass a month without slaughtering at all.

I017: So, the meat you eat, where do you get it from?

KI056: Maybe if there is a ceremony, but previously we used to depend on meat and blood.

I017: you only slaughter when there is ceremony?

KI056: Its true, only during ceremonies or yearly, especially during the time when teenagers are going to their initiation ceremonies that is when we slaughter.

I017: What about those who are left behind?

KI056: They will find their ways of surviving,

I017: During shortage of food, what exactly do people eat?

KI056: for most Maasai they have cows; obviously they will depend on that especially milk and meat, as we had this program called MORE MILK they educated us about milk and how to store if someone has excess milk and don’t know where to take it.

I017: When there is no enough food at home, who exactly gets the first priority during serving?

KI056: Children and Elders; Sometimes even the father in the house OR when the food has been distributed to the children is when others get. Mothers sacrifice a lot in order for everyone to eat.

I017: Thank you, for your own views what group suffers a lot when there is shortage of food?

KI056: The group that suffers a lot are those poor families/households, elders, children because they cannot go far to look for food.

I017: What do men do when there is shortage of food?

KI056: They suffer a lot; they will do anything in order to get something for the family.

I017: Why did you say that children, elders and women are the ones that suffer a lot when there is shortage of food?

KI056: It’s because they are the ones that stay home all the time, so you may find sometimes a man goes out to drink without leaving money behind for the family and yet come back at night and ask for food.

I017: In your village, what should be done in order to eradicate this problem of food shortage?

KI056: As for me, if I could be able to persuade people to practice agriculture especially mixed farming.

I017: When you look at your village, what percent of people engage themselves in agriculture?

KI056: Very few of them

I017: Apart from agriculture, what else can be done in order to reduce shortage of food?

KI056: Milk business if only there could be a centre in our village. NOW CAN WE TALK ABOUT WEATHER CHANGES

I017: What can you say about environmental or weather changes?

KI056: When you talk about environmental changes it can be in a very wide range, let’s just talk about weather changes. For example last year when there was too much drought a lot of cattle died due to lack of pasture and water, this situation made other households to suffer a lot because they depend on milk and meat, some other people were about to commit suicide, but we thank God it did not happen.

I017: When you say about weather change what do you really mean?

KI056: when we say weather change, it means periods which usually happen In here, rainy season and dry season.

I017: When did it really happen?

KI056: Previously it happened in 2000, 2007 but during this period the cattle did not die like in this year (2017), this was the longest dry season we have ever experienced.

I017: What brought all these changes?

KI056: I don’t have a real answer to this question but for my guess I might say, may be due to cutting down of trees for charcoal and having a lot of cattle moving from one place to another looking for pasture also can be a reason to it.

I017: How did inadequate food, having a lot of cattle, little rain have affected the people of Mela?

KI056: All these changes have affected people, because some of them depend on the milk for sale even for personal use but unfortunately not anymore, so you may find a lot of people are suffering, and this is due to lack of pasture and water

I017: I Would like also to know all these changes, like too much drought in an area how are the feeds affected?

KI056: Lack of pasture and water, a lot of places were dried up.

I017: So what do people do?

KI056: the cattle are being shifted from one place to another.

I017: So where do you usually take them when you say you are shifting the cattle from one place to another?

KI056: Just other place where we can get pasture and water for the cattle .

I017: When you shift with the cattle what exactly do people eat there?

KI056: We usually carry food with us

I017: And for those who remain behind?

KI056: We eat ugali and stew, or any other stew that is available

I017: due to this weather change like too much drought, did it make people change their personal activities?

KI056: if we talk about activities that increase capital, for real it’s hard, in Mela there are no people who deal with this small business, so you may find it is very difficult to start a business in Mela, and during this situation like dry season is when they sell cow in order to get money and buy food

I017: In Mela, apart from livestock keeping there is no any other business or activity that people practice?

KI056: So there is no any other activity that people do?

I017: Do people go far from the village to look for other jobs or activities to do?

KI056: There are people who do that, especially youths are the ones who most of them go to town and look for jobs in the companies, which help them get money and provide food for the family.

I017: How does this change affect milk?

KI056: of course it did affect due to lack of pasture

I017: Are there any changes due to roles in the family?

KI056: Yes, there are changes like misunderstanding in the family between wife and husband, you may find husband going out to drink while the family has no food.

I017: Does weather change led to increase or decrease of conflict between farmers and pastoralist?

KI056: Weather change had led to increase of conflict between farmers and pastoralist,

I017: For those who depend much on milk, what do they do when the cattle are shifted?

KI056: They should learn to eat other kinds of food.

I017: And for the children?

KI056: Also they should learn to eat other kinds of food, but sometimes they get milk from goats

I017: Goats are not affected with the weather changes?

KI056: Not at all

I017: So, nowadays goats milk is acceptable?

KI056: YES

I017: NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT CHANGE IN ROLES IN THE COMMUNITY You said in Mela there is no any other activity done by youths apart from them going to town and look for jobs.

KI056: Some of them they do go to towns and return back but not girls.

I017: What is the difference?

KI056: Some girls end up getting married by the “Swahilis"; For us Maasai, we don’t like to interact with the “Swahilis” especially in marriage issues. So it is hard for the girls to come back.

I017: So even here in Mela, there are youths who do not practice any other activity?

KI056: It is hard. But if there was provision of education about agriculture irrigation and provision of loans, youths would participate.

I017: What do people in Mela do in order to overcome this situation?

KI056: Our Chairperson writes letters to government and other authorities to ask for help to address this situation

I017: When the youth come back from town, what do other people think of them?

KI056: He/she can help the family from the income that he/she earned while working in town.

I017: When we were here in the February (2017), we heard that roles of the women have changed?

KI056: Yes women have become more independent and obtained education. When a woman is given independence she can do anything in order for the family to get something to eat and also are free to do anything that they want.

I017: And for those who are free to do anything they want, have they brought any changes in the family?

KI056: There are a lot of changes; because they are now free to do other things, it has reduced the burden on the husband who has to provide for everything; so sometimes you may find even the menu has changed.

I017: Are there any effect when you give a woman freedom to do something?

KI056: Yes, when they go out there, they can easily be influenced by people of different kind and can lead to misunderstanding in the family.

I017: CHANGE IN CULTURE, HOW DID IT CHANGE THE PEOPLE WHO WERE HERE AND THOSE WHO CAME/MIGRATED?

KI056: There is no any problem like living with the Gogo; but not any other tribe like from Kilosa when they come in our village we really don’t like them.

I017: For now, are there any tribes that live here?

KI056: Yes there are.

I017: Are there any people moving from here to other villages

KI056: No, apart from those who move with cattle.

I017: And those who go to town, when they are back do they still practice livestock keeping activities e.g. grazing?

KI056: YES

I017: Living with other tribes, has it brought any effect to the community, like food etc?

KI056: NO, but we have learned different things from them, and also we learn how to live with different people because before coming of new tribes the Maasai people used to isolate themselves.

I017: It is said that when youths go to town they bring changes to the community what can you say about it?

KI056: For those who understands the situation find it okay; but for others they still find it as a challenge and that it is not good for their community.

I017: Inter tribe interaction has brought them to try different kinds of foods, which cash crop is more available in this area?

KI056: Maize, because it is what they cultivate a lot, but there is no market that is specific for Maasai

I017: you said earlier that during the dry season the Maasai shift cattle to other areas for pasture and water, who specifically takes the cattle for grazing?

KI056: Youth

I017: Are there changes on how to prepare food?

KI056: Before, the Maasai used to make very hard stiff porridge but later on they learnt how to prepare stiff porridge, even how to make stew and cook Pilau.

I017: Now would like to talk about conflicts between farmers and pastoralist

KI056: There is no conflict in Mela

I017: How do people learn about healthy living, and Balanced diet?

KI056: There is no hospital or dispensary in Mela, but when they go for RCH services is when they are educated on how and what to eat during pregnancy.

I017: What else is being taught about healthy living?

KI056: The child is supposed to eat good food and also the mother, porridge should be mixed with milk.

I017: What should be done in order for this information to reach everyone in the community?

KI056: There should be nurses coming twice a week in order to educate people in the community,

I017: To whom should this education be provided to?

KI056: Women

I017: Why?

KI056: Because the mother is the one who is so closer to the child than any other person.

I017: Apart from hospitals, do you think schools can be used to provide that kind of education?

KI056: Yes if there is that opportunity then it is okay, but even NGOs

I017: Do people in Mela use radios?

KI056: NO, I have not seen that in here, but something should be done in order for the knowledge to reach many people. Agriculture education should also be provided.

I017: Whom do you think will be able to educate other people?

KI056: We will choose people who are literate, able to read and write, who will be able to spread the knowledge to other people. Thank you so much MR. Kassim we have reach the end of out conversation, unless you have some concerns.

What we would like to request is for dispensary and infrastructure.

I017: What about balanced diet?

KI056: Yes, I think we should change how we eat for our health, like cassava etc.

I017: Again thank you so much, we have reached the end of our interview, thank you for your cooperation.

KI056: Thank you and you’re warmly welcome again and again.