Interviewer(s): Timothy Price
Interviewee(s): Participant 12

Timothy Price: And the first thing we'll do is I have a consent sheet here that will go through and I'll just ask say yes or no to each of these statements.

Participant 12: Okay.

Timothy Price: The other thing I just like to tell everyone in the beginning I know with kids in the house that can be kind of hard, things happen. So if you need to take a break at any point, just let me know. We can take a break and if something comes up and you need to stop the interview completley, thats fine too.

Participant 12: That's fine, no problem.

Timothy Price: Alright, so with the consent sheet. The first statement is I confirm that I have read information sheet for this study. I've had the opportunity to consider this information, ask questions have had these questions answered satisfactorily.

Participant 12: That's all fine. Yeah.

Timothy Price: Excellent. I understand that my participation is voluntary, and that I am free to withdraw it anytime without giving any reason. I also understand that I can decline to answer any questions during the interview.

Participant 12: That's fine.

Timothy Price: I understand that information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study I give permission for these individuals to have access this information.

Participant 12: Yeah, that's fine.

Timothy Price: Yeah, I understand the information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for use in future research or teaching purposes and that the data will be thoroughly anonymized first

Participant 12: Yeah, that's fine.

Timothy Price: I understand that the interview will be audio or video recorded according to my preference types out and that all identifying personal details will be or

Participant 12: Yep, that's fine.

Timothy Price: I understand the direct quotations may be taken from what I say and used in research publications, but I will not be identifiable from these

Participant 12: Yeah, that's all fine.

Timothy Price: and the last one is I agree to take part in this study.

Participant 12: Yep, yep, that's fine.

Timothy Price: Excellent. And would you like to receive a copy of the research findings on the study is complete?

Participant 12: Yeah, that would be useful actually in my, in my role. We've got other members of the team that are involved in terms of screening as well. So I think it'll be interesting to see the findings, definitely.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. So the study is scheduled to end at the end of August. So that's when I would have some findings to share. So I would send those to the email that we corresponded on.

Participant 12: Brilliant, that'll be great.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And would you like to receive a hard copy of study documents I would mail those two

Participant 12: And no electronic will be fine. Yeah.

Timothy Price: Okay, great. Yes.

Alright, so that's the consent sheet out of the way. So we can go ahead and dive in here. So can you tell me just a little bit about yourself. You know anything, anything really what you do for work kind of where you're from, anything?

Participant 12: So, yeah, yeah. So I am, I live in South Shields. I work in public health. So I've got an interest in kind of all things to do with kind of health and well being in any way. I work for [Employer]. So I found out about the study through them. Well, it's actually through [Person] because I've studied under [Person] before doing some MsC modules and things like that as bit CPD. So I think [Person] had been promoting this study, and it was something that I thought I can contribute and help out with. So that's kind of the, the key thing for me but, but yeah, I work in [Employer and employer location] on kind of tobacco and alcohol mainly, but also sport. A lot of work around or healthy aging as well. So not so much the young people but the more, more older people. But as I mentioned in the in the email, I've got two young children one's four and one's 2. So a daughter who's four and a son who's two. So yeah that's, that's kind of another reason for, for wanting to contribute to the study really.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Um, so, you tell me a little bit about your children. How are they doing with the everything? [laughter]

Participant 12: Yeah, it's been an interesting time. They've been pretty good, to be fair. Obviously they haven't been at nursery at this time. So my eldest would be in preschool nursery, but obviously since the lockdown, since the pandemic, that's been closed and they haven't actually reopened yet so she's literally been off, off, off nursery school for the whole time. She's due to go back in September, when she would start and reception. So all being well she'll be going back mid September. So, you know, we hope that the school have everything in place by then and it will be safe to do that. And my youngest is two kids three in November and he's, he goes to a private nursery. But again, we haven't sent them back there just yet. So he's been off a few months as well. But the be managing pretty well, they've been getting sent, certainly [Daughter] my eldest, has been getting sent information, a little bit of work from the nursery. And so we've been trying to do that, I think, when we can between work. But me and my wife both work pretty much full time, so it has been difficult kind of looking after them and also working at the same time, but hopefully things are going to improve now with the lockdown being relaxed. Hopefully grandparents, being able to have them for a little bit of time now moving forward. So that should make it a little bit easier now, give them a bit more interesting things to do outside of being with us all the time because. Obviously they haven't really been able to see them, just from the end of the drive or on video calls and things like that. So, you know, that's getting a bit better now. I know that being able to see them over the weekend and things like that will be nice. But yeah, they seemed to be doing pretty well.

Timothy Price: Yeah, it's a little bit hard to know, sometimes, who has a harder time with lockdown the children or their parents.

Participant 12: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's been a bit of a juggling act, I think, keeping them entertained and also doing my day job. but yeah yeah we've managed okay.

Timothy Price: Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad to hear that. So can you tell me a kind of your first impressions, your first thoughts around flu? That can be anything from, like, is it a serious illness, what kind of symptoms do you expect to see, kind of anything first thoughts around flu.

Participant 12: Yeah, so I know a little bit from my yeah, kind of studies and from work, etc. I think it is quite a serious issue. I think, you know, moving forward as well with the latest pandemic. It could be worse, given the strains on the healthcare system and things like that.But yeah, I think I'm certainly aware of the the seriousness of it for certain at risk groups in particular. So anyone who's already vulnerable or has a long term condition and who are elderly, orvery young, obviously are at higher risk and yeah, you know, the whole aim of the kind of screening program has been to protect those at risk groups up, you know, first and foremost. Also in terms of developmening, herd immunity across the whole community as well. So I've always been for the campaign obviously I understand the evidence base behind it and I always had a flu jab myself. You know, we get provided with that as healthcare workers and as public health workers through our employer. But equally, I think, you know, we see the benefits to, to our children as well in terms of protecting them. But also protecting all the vulnerable people that they come in contact with as well, obviously, when they're at school, when they see elderly grandparents and things like that as well. So, um, as far as signs and symptoms. I think I possibly only had flu once in my life and it may have just been a really bad bug. But I was literally bed bound for it when I was at university for a few, good few days. And so it may have been may have been flu. I think from a symptoms point of view it was just the usual kind of fever, nausea, muscle aches, just high temperature and things like that, really, yeah. Yeah, so they were probably my, my kind of bad symptoms, I would say.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so is is flu, something that, you know, obviously you don't want your children to get sick. But if you you know where to find out that one of your children was going to get the flu, would that be something that you would be worried about, or is it something you would be more, you know, kind of feeling like it's not such a big deal. Can you give me a sense for that?

Participant 12: I think I'd be slightly worried. I think that the latest pandemics probably made people even more concerned around kind of respiratory disease and issues and bugs and things like that. So yeah, I think I probably be slightly concerned although thankfully, touch wood, my children are fit and healthy. But, you know, you still dont want them to go through something like that. And obviously you hear it, you know, you do hear of kind of outbreaks and a lot of kind of deaths and morbidity as a result of it um, throughout a number of different places. We've had some some bad outbreaks in the past in, in the kind of North East region and you read about it from elsewhere as well. So, you know, I think you'd always have those those concerns. But equally, I think, you know, I wouldn't be hugely worried. I think I probably be more concerned about the impact of people who could potentially then be infected by by other people who are obviously more vulnerable, people kind of, with COPD and or other long term conditions or who might be me immunosuppressed. I think it'd be probably more concerned about the wider family, I suppose, then, then my kids themselves. But, but yeah you would naturally have some, some worries and concerns I think, think if we knew that they were going to be infected by it and there was a big outbreak, definitely.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. So you're kind of, one of your concerns, in that is not just for your children's health, but also for kind of the health of the family like the wider group.

Participant 12: Yeah, yeah, given how infecctive it can be. I think, yeah, you know, you'd be probably equally concerned about the knock on effect that it could have on other people as well as young people themselves. I think generally young people have a fairly mild, but not always. And again, you know, same as COVID-19 and other respiratory viral infections, I think you know, anyone can can get it and certain people can always be quite badly affected by as well. So yeah, there'd definitely be concerns.

Timothy Price: Yeah, I'm see you started to talk about this a little bit. But I'm curious, just to hear kind of any other thoughts you have. Do you think there are, there is a difference like a significant difference between how children and get sick with the flu and how adults get sick? Whether that's like symptoms severity anything or do you think it's pretty much the same, whether you're an adult or a child. It just depends, kind of on your health beforehand.

Participant 12: Yeah, I mean, I think I would probably say, although I don't know how how clear the evidence base is around it. But I'd probably say that young people will be slightly more able to defend against it, then others would be. So I think, you know, that might be kind of them speculating slightly, but that I'd probably assume that young people probably don't have it as bad and impact and as severe symptoms as adults would. I'm not 100% about that, to be honest. I think it probably does vary and I think people could still get a particularly serious bout of it. And, and, again, I think it probably does come down to underlying factors and other conditions, long term conditions. So the medications or conditions that they might suffer from. Here with my children being healthy and not having any underlying conditions. I'd be quite confident that they would, they would get through it and you know it would be fairly mild. But as I say, you know, that's not always going to be the case, you know, that could be a particularly harmful strain and obviously we have had a number of different strains over the last few years and, you know, some of them more infectious or more deadly than others. I guess so, yeah. I'd say that would be my perception of it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Um, so you mentioned that you had had the flu. When you were in university. Do you know anyone who's had, you know, if their children have ever had the flu you can you think of anyone?

Participant 12: Yeah, I think I'd probably know if they had something as serious as that. And yeah, you know, if they were really really ran down with it, unless it was a very, very mild case of it. But, you know, again, thankfully, the haven't had any any serious kind of colds or illnesses before. So I would expect it probably haven't had it. I couldn't be 100% confident about it and I can't even be 100% confident that I had it. It felt like it was bad but it could have just been a another type of virus, but yeah, yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. So do you know anyone like maybe your children's friends or, you know, Friends of yours that have children. Do you know anyone who has a child who's had flu or not really?

Participant 12: Not personally, I think I'm just aware of that there has been outbreaks in the past. So we have had cases locally, where there's been outbreaks in schools, and schools have either closed or have certainly had to isolate certian children or certain classes to protect any further outbreaks. So I'm aware of that from a public health perspective. I don't think off the top my head I know any personal friends children have had flu, actually, or that they were 100% positive that it was. So as I say, just, just what I've heard, or what I'm aware of, some kind of local intelligence in terms of outbreaks in schools and things like that, I think, yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so have you ever talked to your child's GP or another medical professional about the flu or have you not felt like you needed to? You know, obviously, with your background, you might be a little more sort of health literate then then many people are. Have you ever felt the need to talk to a medical professional about the flu?

Participant 12: Probably not, to be honest. No, we haven't really had to take them to those sorts of settings all that frequently other than when they were very young in the might have had a high temperature, I think. I probably never felt the need to specifically raise that issue in isolation. I think the only time it's ever really cropped up is when they've actually been for their vaccination and obviously we had a conversation with the health professional about it then. And obviously the highlight is kind of why it's important. And kind of what to look out for in terms of any side effects and things like that. So I've spoken about flu in general as part of that, I would say. Yeah, but not routinely as part of any other appointment or anything like that.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, so if you want to learn what it's like-- [Participant is speaking to his child]

Participant 12: Sorry about that

Timothy Price: That's okay. Um, so if you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu, whether that's like symptoms or, you know, kind of home treatments things to watch out for. Where do you go to get that kind of information?

Participant 12: Um probably NHS 111 or NHS dot UK [Meaning NHS.uk] I think most of the information, if I just want some basic details about a particular condition or any sort of illness really, I think my first port of call would probably be online. I would always use, you know, you're around, you kind of, more, more, kind of evidence based websites and things lik that. I wouldn't just Google it and click on a random website. I think I would always start at the NHS. So yeah, NHS dot UK or NHS 111 and then basically go from there for any further information. But yeah, yeah I think I would always start there definitely.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so sort of shifting focus a little bit to think about the flu vaccine specifically. Um, yeah, I was just looking over the, the expression of interest survey. So did both of your children have the flu vaccine this year?

Participant 12: And my So my eldest did, had it, had it kind of at the start of the last season and will be eligible and again this year, my youngest hasn't had it yet because he hasn't been eligible. He's just missed coming into the age range this year because he turns three in November. I think he just missed out last year, but he'll be eligible this year. So, yeah. He'll have an appoitnment.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. So what do you the benefits of having your child get the flu vaccine are? You know, any sort of any benefits or positives that come to mind.

Participant 12: So yeah, I think. I think, obviously, first and foremost, it's protecting against those most common strains. I'm aware that it won't always give someone total immunity because they could well be other strains and other viruses that they can still pick up I suppose. Every year the vaccine kind of changes slightly and will protect them against those more common strains. I think that's how I understand it. So in terms of the benefits, obviously it's going to protect them against those most common strains and then naturally it would then, I guess, thinking about like herd immunity, would prevent them passing, passing that on to others as well. If you get enough enough children vaccinated, of the population vaccinated. I'm probably a little bit less clued up on whether it can also give them a little bit more protection against other colds and viruses and things like that. I think there's a bit of a kind of urban myth, around, around that. That potentially the vaccine might protect you against other colds and kind of sniffles and things like that. I've certainly heard people say that anecdotally in the past. I don't know how true it is to be honest. I know that, certainly when I've had it in the past, I've gone through, you know, the kind of winter season and not really had any major coughs or sniffles or anything like that. I don't know whether that was solely down having the flu vaccine or whether I just been lucky, to be honest. So I don't know how much extra benefit my children would get from a kind of broader protection, cold and sniffles point of view, or whether it's really just those common strains of flu that they're protected against. But, but yeah I think that's the main benefit for them really is hopefully being protected against those more common strains.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So it sounds like from what you said. It sounds like there's two levels of benefit. There's the main benefit, which is that it's protecting your children's health but also a little more broadly, you know you brought up again the protective benefit for the community.

Participant 12: Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I think that wider benefit then too, to the kind of surrounding family and,you know, other people they might come in contact with as well in terms of not being able to then carry it in infect other people as well. Yeah, yeah.

Timothy Price: So what do you think the downsides are of having your child get the flu vaccine? and downsides doesn't specifically need to be adverse reactions. You know, it can include that. But it could be anything, you know about the process that is not, you know, not positive.

Participant 12: Yeah, and I don't think there's many downsides to be honest. I'm, I'm all for things and screening, to be honest. But I suppose the only, the only downside really is there are probably the the acute issues around, the unpleasentness of it, if it's a jab, then obviously you know that's not pleasant for them. And I know my eldest had the nasal spray, can't remember when it was no actually, it must be getting on from... Yeah, must have been like last October, I think, probably around that sort of time September, October. And that's seemed a lot better. It wasn't too intrusive, she was absolutely fine with it. A lot better than you know the jabs and things like that. So there wasn't any downsides, from my point of view in terms of its administration, it was absolutely fine. The only other downside. I guess it's just a little bit of the inconvenience of having to make the appointment to physically go to the to the doctors and the GP. You know, to make time to be able to go and do it. You know, but I'm quite lucky that I work quite flexibly and you know either me or my or my wife can can usually make the time to take her along. There's usually not too many issues with that really so they're the only only downsides I can see really.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Um, so you mentioned that when you took your daughter to get the vaccine this year that you had a little bit of a conversation with the GP about the vaccine or with me, you know, whoever was administering the vaccine. Can you tell me a little bit more about that conversation? Was that just, did you have any questions that you asked at that time, or was it just quite general?

Participant 12: Just quite general, to be honest. It was just a routine kind of a bit of an explanation about the jab and the fact that it's not a live, not live virus? I forget how it works exactly now. But there's a bit of an explanation about the type of vaccine it was and that it wouldn't give anyone the flu and that there might be a little bit of a side effect in terms of a sniffily nose, maybe a slight, slight temperature. And she just went through, you know, some of the possible symptoms and side effects. Basically, and not to be concerned about that. Just a bit of an explanation about the process, about how the the nasal spray works. And then it was just putting my daughter at ease really. Just, just getting her comfortably and just get ready to, to inhale it really. Um, but other than that, I don't think there was a particularly lengthy conversation from what I remember. I didn't really have any major questions or concerns that I needed to have clarified. You know a little bit about it and how it worked and and how it was administered so. I didn't feel the need to ask any further questions. So it was quite a brief conversation, we just go through the process and then and then have it, the nasal spray, delivered.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so. Can you walk me through the process you went through to get the vaccine, to get your daughter vaccinated this year? So, you know, things like how did you know that she needed to be vaccinated, once you found out that she was eligible for the vaccine, how did you go about getting an appointment kind of anything, anything you can tell me about the process of actually getting it?

Participant 12: Well, from what I remember, I think it was just a letter from the GP to indicate that it was due. Amd we just basically need to to to make an appointment. So literally, letter, landed on the doorstep, made a note of it, rung the GP, made the appointment and I think we got we got in pretty quickly. And so it was just a case of just of actually making arrangements to actually work around the appointments, because it was an early morning appointment which suited me quite well. I work in the in the town anyway, so it was relatively easy. It just meant that I could go into work a little later. I think if I remember rightly, it was on a day where my mom would normally babysit so she'd actually followed us to the appointment and then then she took my daughter home afterwards, which meant that I could go straight to work. So there's a little bit of kind of logistics required to when to make the appointment and then to make arrangements for childcare and things like that, then get to work. If I remember rightly my mum was watching her that day, that meant I could basically take her to the appointment, go in with her. That was a dead quick and straightforward process sit in the waiting room and then going along and and having the appointment and then she just jumped back in with my mum, they took them home and I went to work. So that was the process. Basically, it was quite straightforward. It just needed a bit of arrangement in terms of child care really.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that does sound like it was quite straightforward. So before you got that letter, were you aware that she was eligible to be vaccinated or was it because you received this latter that you realized that there was something you could do?

Participant 12: I think the letter served as a bit of a reminder, and I may have forgotten or not got round to it as quickly if I didn't get the letter as a reminder. I may have forgotten. Yeah, we're we're aware that she was eligible for it, and that it would be due at some point. She had it in the previous year. So I think from that perspective, we knew it was coming round, kind of seen it done it before. The year before she had the nasal spray as well. But I can't remember exactly what year that came in and where the change from a jab to the to the nasal spray was. But, um, but, yeah, we were aware that it was kind of comming round. And again, we'll know this kind of in September as well. So we'll be prepared for that. But I think the letter is helpful. It just serves as a bit of a reminder and a bit of, a bit of motivation to make sure we get our boot in basically.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that makes sense. Um so got that letter and you read it and it said, you know, she's due for a flu vaccine. Was that something you were like, yes, she is definitely going to have this vaccine. You know, will call the GP. Now, or is it something you're more like well you know it's we'll see if we got around to it. Essentially, how much of a priority was it for you when you got a letter?

Participant 12: Yeah, it was, it was probably a bit in the in between those two parameters, really. I think, I don't think it was a case of um "I'll ring in immediately and book it in right this second." I think we did probably, it was probably just other stuff going on. So probably didn't get round to it straight away. It might have been a few days or a week or so. I think the intention was always that we would get her booked in for it, but there wasn't a massive sense of urgency for it. I don't think, because it was probably quite early in the in the season as well. I think the letters probably came around in about September and obviously you don't often see a big spike until kind of October, November time. So I think I was aware that, you know, it's best to get it sooner rather than later. Obviously, the sooner you get it, the better. But I don't think I was kind of rushing to get it done immediately that I think that was quite happy to sit on it for a week or so.

Timothy Price: Yeah, but it was something like that you knew you wanted to do it wasn't something you wanted to think over?

Participant 12: Yeah, I'd say so. Its something we see as important and still something I would like to do. That probably comes down to my role as well. You know, I think, from a public health perspective, we always advocate for these sorts of things. So I like to try and you know lead by example as well. I feel a bit of a hypocrite. If I didn't so, yeah. So, I suppose from that perspective I felt like, yeah, it's important. I'll get definitely get around to it at some point there was never a question of, kind of, not to get into it.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Um, so that sort of leads me and kind of the last thing I wanted to talk about, which is just to get an idea for your thinking around kind of vaccination as a whole. So have your children received like the standard routine childhood vaccinations?

Participant 12: They have, yes.

Timothy Price: And can you explain a little bit to me about how you decided that they would receive those vaccinations. Was it something you know did you feel like there was even a decision to be made there at all, or was it something that you just sort of always wanted to do?

Participant 12: Um, yeah, I mean, again, I suppose. In a similar vein. I would always see it is important. I understand the evidence base and the importance of it. I get frustrated and annoyed by some of the theories and conspiracies, you'll read online about vaccines and some other bizzare kind of theories and issues behind some of that. That can be frustrating sometimes, from a public health perspective, that a lot of the fake news and things like that that circulate, so it was never really a decision. I think it was always just something that we would always just get done cause we understand the, kind of, the reasons and the rationale and the safety and the benefits of it. At the end of the day, you know, if you look back at kind of other infectious diseases, in the past like smallpox and polio and things like that and how vaccination has obviously had a huge impact and made a massive difference on them, effectively eradicated those sorts of illnesses. I think you know it's, it's common sense that you should do that with other issues and diseases as well. So, yeah. Yeah, I don't think there's ever a decision that we wouldn't get a door, and I think we would always kind of support routine screening definitely

Timothy Price: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so that's actually that was kind of my last questions.Thing that I just like to sort of close on is just a general, is there anything that you want to say about the flu, or the flu vaccine, vaccination in general, just anything that I didn't ask about that you were hoping to get the chance to speak to?

Participant 12: And I don't think so, to be honest. I mean, I think it's important that kind of primary care and the GPS, pharmacies, etc. get behind it and make sure that the do prompt people. Because I think I do worry that sometimes people aren't particularly motivated or they've got other issues going on that they will just think it's not a priority. So I think we probably do need to do more. And this is kind of a public health issue as well, around how we promote and encourage people to come forward and get the various vaccines, you know, for, for any sorts of issues really but, but flu included. I think people probably don't see flu as big of a priority as some of the other childhood vaccinations, simply because they might think that the kids are less at risk or, you know, less likely to have a have a kind of serious issue as the result of flu, whereas all elder elderly people might be more vulnerable. So I definitely think there's some issues around that and it'd be interesting to see the findings of your, your study really understand some of the kind of parental perceptions around all of that. What are the kinds of reasons and barriers and challenges and issues for not for not getting it? And whether you know things like incentives and things like that could work, perhaps as well for more socio-economic issues and deprived areas and things like that, you know, where we know that the takeup isn't as good as good or as high. So yeah, I'm interested in all of that in terms of the kind of the breakdown of that of takeup or and things like that. I don't specifically lead on vaccines and screening within the team, but other members do when, you know, they kind of get all the data and all the figures and things as well. Obviously we promote it heavily within the workplace is kind of how we support our older employees and other businesses that offer it as well and encourage people to get it work if it's more convenient for them as well.

Timothy Price: Ya know, that is, it is really interesting stuff. An interesting you said thing you said was about coronavirus and how everybody is taking respiratory illness, a little more seriously. Now I, you know, I hope that that can be a lesson that comes out all this, but a part of me worries that it might actually have the opposite effect because people may be looking at the coronavirus and saying, "well, you know, at least it's not, you know, at least flu, isn't that" you know?

Participant 12: Sure. Yeah, no, that's a bit of a concern, isn't it really as to kind of which way it might go and whether it makes people more concerned about flu this year, thinking, "oh, well, you know, is another equally dangerous and and harmful virus. I'll definitely get my immunization this year And likewise, I'll get the kids vaccinated as well to give us the best possible outcomes" If you know, coronavirus may be coming back or whatever it may be, not wanting to have a kind of double headed outbreak of current affairs and flu at the same time, and the impact that will have on the health services, there could be some of that going on. But as you say it could go either way and make it will think, "oh, well actually clue is not really that bad anymore. I just need to focus on coronavirus I won't bother." So that'll be really interesting, actually this year and think about how, what the what the immunization rates look like early on and whether we need to do a bit more. The push to really raise its profile again, in light of in the wake of coronavirus. Yeah, yeah, we'll have to think about that for a public health point of view as well.

Timothy Price: Although hopefully everybody is washing their hands, much more than they were before. [Laughter]

Participant 12: Right, yeah.

Timothy Price: Right, so that concludes the interview so I'm going to stop recording.