Interviewer(s): Henry
Interviewee(s): Kevin

Henry: OK. Is it OK if I just use the name Kevin-.

Kevin: Kevin is fine. As long as. Yeah, as long as that the real name and you use anything you want.

Henry: OK, great. And any organization is just going to be [pseudonomyzed].

Kevin: You could say whatever organization you want as long as you don't attach me to it. So, yeah, you could say [org], you could say City of New York or whatever.

Henry: OK, great. I'll send you some I'll send you the the final product before I submit it.

Kevin: OK, sounds good.

Henry: OK, so it's about 130 in the morning. Here, so let's get started.

Kevin: Oh, my bad.

Henry: Any questions for me?

Kevin: not really

Henry: Sure OK, so so how old are you?

Kevin: I am 40 years old.

Henry: And are you in New York City?

Kevin: Yes, I am. I live here.

Henry: And what's your job?

Kevin: I'm a paramedic with the [organization].

Henry: What area of New York, approximately?

Kevin: Well, I work in Harlem and Washington Heights.

Henry: Oh, OK. I Probably heard your ambulance a few times, then. Oh, yeah.

Kevin: Oh.

Henry: Yeah. I spent about a lot of time up there in, I think, April. May. 2020. So what was your job in January 2020?

Kevin: In 2020. I was actually in medic school.

With the [organization], so it was like it was a different experience because as COVID was starting to make its way into news headlines, we, we were hearing about it. They were sending us notes via email to our stations. [organization] basically trained its own medics; you become an EMT, then you become a medic through a list, through [???].

It's a system in New York City. And for nine months, what it's supposed to be is nine months. You basically work as a student. You don't go out on the street, you don't do anything. You're just a student and you get paid to do so. It's actually really great deal. During that time, I was in class. So we get we're getting all these messages about COVID’s coming.

Here's what we're seeing, yada, yada. Stuff like that. So I was actually at their training bureau in Queens daily Monday through Friday, studying to be a medic.

Henry: Can you tell me about when you first heard about COVID?

Kevin: I first heard about it in December, just through the news headlines and stuff like that. Something's happening in China. People are sick. People are dying. What's going on? Nothing really specific that I heard about. And, you know, of course, we just thought like, OK, it's China that they always have something that's going on there. So it's no big deal.

Henry: So can you tell me about your initial thoughts?

Kevin: Initial thoughts were the same stupid thoughts that everyone had. I was like, oh, it's just the flu. You know, it's killing it's killing old people and young people just like the normal flu here and that stuff that we take on all the time. So we weren't really that concerned about it at all.

But once it started, I just have to say, once, like February started, we started seeing it pop up in like other countries, like Italy, Spain, and all of a sudden people go on lockdown. That's when it started getting a little. Started getting a little real. And in class, we were like, oh, boy, they're going to redeploy us and take us out of class.

I know it.

Henry: So did they?

Kevin: Oh, yeah. What happened was I remember it was March 23rd when they when they said, OK, we're canceling medic class and you guys are going back to the street. So I was working as an EMT, which is basically it's, it's like a paramedic, except we have less drugs we can use.

Henry: I was an EMT.

Kevin: What was that?

Henry: I was an EMT.

Kevin: Oh, OK, cool. So, you know, so. So yes. So we went back out there and, and as soon as we hit the streets, it was just a very, very different sort of thing going on. People were calling in high volume numbers like around I think the highest we hit was like over 9000 calls in one day. And on a usual day we do maybe around 4200 so calls almost doubled and actually did double.

So there was absolutely no rest. And when we hit the streets, we had we had limited PPE. We didn't have the proper amount of N95s. [ORGANIZATION] never supply this with masks before. Even though we're a medical service, we don't have biological particulate masks, we have disposable N95s and you run out of those if you don't keep getting them.

So basically a lot of us out there were just like rags in our face at some point but I just like how do I put this… like once we got out there, it was basically we're going into people's homes and we're removing people that we are know are going to die for, I'd say about a solid four weeks. That was those were the 12 hour tours.

And then because all of us were getting sick, it turned into 16 hour tours and most of us don't live anywhere near where we work. [PII] but I work at Harlem and the Heights, so we just kind of just kept doing it. And, you know, we were pulling something like crazy work hours and there's, this is pretty much for about a month. That's the way it was, just removing the people that were we know weren't going to make it the when we get to the hospitals, they were like, what was the hospital on? There's a hospital Sorry. I'm still just waking up. I'm still a little shakin off the sleep. It's not Columbia Presbyterian.

That one's in the Heights, the Cornell, that one. They had a trailer outside their E.R. where basically, like, as you're driving the ambulance up, you could peer right into it with your headlights and see all of the white body bags stacked up. So that was really foreboding going in there, bringing people there. So it was like, OK, here we go.

We're just stacking to it. And every few days we'd see like, oh, look, the stack got bigger. That's interesting, isn't it?

Henry: So did you think that's how it was going to be?

Kevin: No, not at all. I thought when we got out there, we'd be treating a lot of people that were, you know, we'd help them to the hospital and everything, and we really thought that like, you know, getting them to the hospital would help them. But then just like us, the hospital didn't know how to combat this. I mean, they were intubating people, which, you know, medically is the sound idea.

You know, you can't breathe correctly. Let's stick a tube in your lungs and help you breathe. But that was actually hindering their ability to breathe. so we had this thing called walking so happy, hypoxic, where, you know, if someone has an O2 saturation, 70, they shouldn't be able to talk to you. They should be all messed up. But we've seen people with 52 walking around collecting their cell phone saying like, OK, how long you think I'll be in the hospital?

It was like watching The Walking Dead. It was really crazy to see that sort of, you know, that saturation and people are still talking to you. And it was almost impossible.

Henry: A medical question about saturation actually, maybe you’re the wrong person and it’s a little off topic, but do you think that's an actual oxygen saturation of 70 or do you think this microvascular thing going on when you better with the pulse ox?

Kevin: Good question because yeah, when it comes down to the capillaries in everything, we found that COVID was actually, you know, it was hindering a lot of the readings. But that saturation isn't new far from where it actually was. And the blood brain barrier which is still terrifying. So so it's like they're operating there. They're they're not AMS. They're they're not altered but their brains aren't getting enough oxygen.

Just somehow it's happening. But I found that people that stayed hunched over and were in like a, you know, tripod position wherever they were walking they hung on a lot longer. And something to do with the physiology of the human body that I'm not quite sure about that. But it was part of the factor.

Henry: So back to your lecture class first, back to February. Mm hmm.

So I mean, so your class was canceled on the 23rd.

Kevin: Yes.

Henry: In February, Italy. Spain started getting real so it started getting real. And, you know, what were you thinking?

Kevin: Well, like I said before, I was thinking we're definitely get got out of class, which is the most selfish thing I could possibly have. I mean, I was waiting years to become a paramedic, but you know, and also there was like not really a fear involved. It was kind of just like, here we fucking go. This is it.

This is the pandemic. shit. So but we all knew that we weren't going to be prepared for it, but we assumed we were because it's the great and mighty [ORGANIZATION]. They'll take care of us. You know, the same people that said that the air was fine to breathe at 911 for those firefighters is the same frigging organization that did not have PPE for us.

And we all know that EMS is the stepchild of emergency services, so we don't get the same treatment [ORGANIZATION] does, even though we are [ORGANIZATION] so we knew going out there it was it was going to be an uphill battle. Whatever the hell we were facing, we just knew it was going to be long and hard we didn't really think it was going to be in the scale of death that it was in New York City.

We just knew it was going to be a massive problem.

And we were calling on our leadership to change the rules of transport and everything like that because, you know, people call 911 for the dumbest thing during Covid. One guy called 911 because of a toothache. And he wanted to go to the hospital that he lived two blocks away from. And I was just like, Dude, come on, put an effort in.

It's people are dying out here. But but once we got out there and we saw what was going on, we kind of just kind of just worked and just stopped thinking about what's going to happen afterwards. And we're just like, this will either eventually end with all of us getting sick and being damaged or dying or we'll get through it.

And we don't know how long this is going to last, so just get to work, I guess.

Henry: But again, this was after your class was canceled, right?

Kevin: Yeah. I'm sorry. Right? Right before it was like I said, it was just we were all just talking shit about [ORGANIZATION] knowing that it's not going to it's not going to work out the way it should be planned out.

Henry: Because of what happened after 9/11 or for something else.

Kevin: Because we we know how [ORGANIZATION], EMS manages itself and we know that whenever there's shortcomings, it's because they're not prepared. because they, you know, they do things like, oh, we're going to give you guys body cams and like, you don't need body cams. We need we need better training for emotionally disturbed patients. We need better PD response. We need you to stop sending us to calls where you don't read the text in the call where it says violent person involved.

It's just like us and the EMTs. You know, there's a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed that they just never got around to. So we knew it was going to be a shit show from day one.

Henry: They should fix the patients.

Kevin: Yeah, it's it's hard to help people when you don't have the resources.

Henry: But it's what kind of – sorry, back to February, though.

What kind of conversations were you having about this.

Kevin: Well, a lot of people, any EMS, you know, they're not stupid, but they also like to think like, you know, they get political for some stupid reason. And like like, oh, this this virus was fabricated in China. And I'm just sitting there thinking like, does it matter if it was fabricated or not? It's here it's like we got to deal with this one way or another.

And a lot of people, you know, like, Trump's doing this, Trump's doing that. No one gives a shit what Trump's doing. Trump didn't give a shit what he was doing. And I don't know, it didn't really cause any division between us or anything because we knew we were all in the same shit sandwich. But a lot of a lot of people, especially, like a lot of parents that work in EMS, were terrified.

They're like, What am I going to do if this gets out of hand? I've got kids at home. I have elderly at home. I can't go home. But who's going to take care of my family?

A lot of the younger guys were like, This is bullshit. I can't wait to go to fire. I don't want to have to deal with this. And a lot of us a lot of us really didn't have much thought about it. We kind of just went like intellectually catatonic for a little bit. And we just were like, all right, it's coming.

You guys want to get pizza? Like, it's it was kind of just shrugging it off. The conversations, though, between like a lot of us just honestly just making jokes about it most of the time because it's going to get bad.

Henry: Intellectually catatonic.

Kevin: Yeah.

Henry: Just want to-

Kevin: I'm sorry.

Henry: Go ahead.

Kevin: Oh, well, I just think because in order to do this stuff, we realized what was coming. We just kind of had to, like, shut our our brains off trying to figure out where it's coming from, what's like we knew bad stuff was going to happen. So we just kind of shut off the part of our brain that can reason it and just realize, like, OK, we're going to have work to do.

There's no point in even really thinking about it because we're stuck here doing it. And if we think about it too much, we're not going to want to go out there.

Henry: Did you have a eureka moment or an oh shit moment when you realize how bad this is going to be?

Kevin: Yeah. About a week in to the actual pandemic after class, people were doing that thing at 7 p.m. where they were, you know, hitting pots and screaming in the streets and all that. And we had this one elderly woman. She was in her eighties, I believe it was over on 110th street, and me and my partner are inside the apartment, and the family's asking us a thousand questions about what's going to happen to her because she's like, you know, the matriarch of the family and none of them are wearing masks.

And it's and basically we're putting her on the stretcher. We're giving her supplemental oxygen. She's coughing we could see the chronic stuff coming out of her mouth, like she's just coughing up pieces of her lungs and we're trying to get her out. And as soon as we get down to the ambulance, everyone starts clapping and cheering. And I just had this moment thinking like, this is going to be our life for at least the next year.

Not the clapping, but just we're going to see deaths like this for about a year until something happens. Maybe there'll be a vaccine. Let's have some faith in mankind. Please. Science, do something. But yeah, it was it was that that moment I realized, like, this isn't like people like, I will do this for a few weeks and we'll go back to class, and I'm like, we're not going back to class any time soon.

We're going to be out here doing this for a while. And we were. And at that point, I kind of realized, like, this isn't just like a flu. People people are dying. This is very different. This is unique, this is scary, and it's not going to end for quite some time.

Henry: So to go back a sec. Is that what made you think you were made you predict that your class would be ended too.

Kevin: Like as the reports are coming out and how it's slowly creeping to America. And then when New York City got hit, it kind of exploded with 911 calls one day they hit. It's like 7000 calls. And then they're like and two days later, they're like, yeah, you guys are going back to the streets. That's pretty much random. Once we had 7000 calls, I was like, This is killing New Yorkers.

They can't keep this. There was like 50 some of us in the class. I mean, that's that's 25 ambulance crews right there. So yeah, they're taking us out.

Henry: Before the first wave hit, though. So from January to March, did your perception of COVID change at all?

Kevin: Slowly from January to March. You know, so being ignorant, thinking like I'm going to be a medic or whatever, it's just some stupid Chinese flu, it's coming, whatever. But as it kept coming and we see more news reports and you know, we got friends that are like nurses, paramedics and stuff, they're talking about it. And and then like my friends were telling me like, yeah, like we're running out of masks and like as as it's very slowly became real where it's just sort of this, like, gigantic titan looming on the horizon that slowly just kind of made its way into our lives.

And we kind of ignored it until it was on our doorstep, kicking us in the ass. like, mentally, like, it didn't take me like it slowly made its way into my conscious mind that I was like, Oh, shit, we got to deal with this. And it was sort of like the mentality was like, Oh, it'll go away. It'll go away.

Nothing like this ever happens to us. You know, if Americans get hit with something that's sudden and tragic, not something that we've actually got to work at for months on end, you know, you know, we were sitting in our own ignorance is bliss type thing, you know, like most Americans do. I'm guilty of it. We're all guilty of it.

Henry: Yeah, thank you. That's a really informative answer.

Kevin: Yeah. We are quite privileged, so.

Henry: Well, it's incredible how much how much or how many people say, oh, this is America, this doesn't happen to us.

Kevin: Oh, yeah. Because it doesn't.

Henry: We have organizations, we have hierarchies that are meant to prevent this. And, you know, like this trust in these hierarchies. Really, they stop stop people from putting two and two together. I think.

Kevin: Yeah. Because in America, you know, like, whenever terrible stuff happens to the rest of the world, we're like, hey, we're America. Terrible things don't happen to us unless we do it to ourselves. I mean, we'll do it to ourselves. We know that. But we don't think any anything else can come in here and mess us up. We do that ourselves.

Henry: Yeah. So, I mean, I was in shock. I left China like a day or two before the border closed. Wound up in you know, I made it across a few borders, like with, you know, in hours before those borders closed. I wound up in Bangkok. And I remember, like, Bangkok was fucking scary. And there was this palpable fear on subways in Bangkok.

Everyone masked up. I was kind of used to masks, but I never been in a place with that palpable fear. And I remember thinking, like, oh, yeah, you know, there's no back up, there’s no organization. Of course, they're scared. Luckily in America, organizations who protect us.

Kevin: Luckily, in America, we don't have these sort of things. So, you know, that that sounds terrifying. Jesus.

Henry: Well yeah, but it was pretty fun.

Kevin: But you don't get to see stuff like that unless you go places. So, yeah, that's definitely an experience.

Henry: Yeah. It definitely was an experience. OK, so you've covered the [ORGANIZATION], pulling you out of class for an increase in the manpower in the streets. Any meetings, any group discussions about that?

Kevin: Very, very little. Surprisingly, like you know, our lieutenants are trying to get us to like come in early, before shifts and they kind of prep us and tell us what's going on for shift. But it was the same topic like ages wear your masks when you use an N95? Try to make it last even though on the manufacturer's box it says they're only good for about 20 minutes before you know they're not good anymore.

I had several shifts where I was just going to 95 on several calls and I was doing like, you know, the proper PPE for not good PPE where you don't touch your mask, basically just stuck to your face for the shift so you don't contaminate anything and but honestly, the leadership really had nothing to give us at one point.

Like, this is funny as hell, it's terrifying. But at one point they sent a banner to all the stations and it was a banner that said [ORGANIZATION], stay strong and we bugged the fuck out. We're like, Can we eat this? Can we use this as masks? No. Why are they sending us banners right now? Like, are they that inept?

Are they that fucking inept right now? Like one of our instructors at the academy is now on an ECMO. Right now, he's an older guy. He's got 911 lungs. He's going to die. We all know this and you're sending fucking banners. Holy shit. Fuck you. I'm done. It's at that point, one EMT is hilarious. Guy is like, You know what?

Fuck it. He rips off his N95 is like, I'm dying out there. He's fucking dying out there. This is crazy. My family's going to get $25,000. not worth it, but worth it right now. So it was awful like that. Like, if I had a [ORGANIZATION] flag in my apartment, it'd be upside down right now after COVID. It's just, I mean, good organization but after this shit, I'm fucking so done with their politics.

Henry: Did anyone try and get them to do something more?

Kevin: We were asking, but we can't really reach our leadership like the captain of EMS and all the division chiefs and all the other white shirts that apparently are supposed to have like, really important jobs they're they're un they were unreachable during COVID. Like, we basically were relying on our lieutenants and captains, and they really did step up. They were trying to help us the best they could, but they could only do so much because it's part of a system where that's ended for them.

Henry: So what do you wish that you would have done differently?

Kevin: Got us supplies. Now, this is not something I could say is fact but our union is pretty good. We're finding stuff out now. The thing is, [ORGANIZATION] on the fire side is always prepared for everything. they have massive stores of extra stuff like PPE. And- but it's for fire. It's not for EMS. And at that, like at a certain point, not sure if you knew this, but they stopped sending fire to cardiac arrest calls.

And but you know, the guys with fire, they still want to help. They'd go there and they'd just kind of stand there and be like, hey, if you need us, we're right here. But some of them would be like, hey, we can't waste the PPE. We're told not to. And so they're standing outside. They got like they got a truck filled with gowns.

And N95s and they're like, we're told not to waste the PPE because I guess [ORGANIZATION] leadership, not the EMS part, was like, Hey, if this shit really hits the fan, guess who's left: you guys. so you're going to need to worry about yourself because a few more, you know, fire guys are about self-preservation because, you know, they get killed doing their job.

Self-preservation is all about their job. So yeah, there was that, which was upsetting. And I'm you know, I'm not saying it's a fact, but it's one of those things that we all know is to be the case. But of course, they're not going to bring that to light because that would end the fucking [ORGANIZATION]. Like, Oh, so a whole bunch of EMTs and medics went out there, got sick damaged their lungs and or died, and you guys had PPE where so yeah.

Henry: I didn't realize it was that separate.

Kevin: Incredibly separate.

Henry: between fire and medic.

Kevin: Oh, yeah. It's very separate. Like we're under the same organization, but both of them are run independently. Yeah.

Henry: So OK, so is there anything you would have done differently as an individual?

Kevin: Honestly, no.

Because, you know, I was in my late thirties at that. I was 38 years old. I got OK lungs. I was like, if I get COVID I wasn't really thinking about myself to be honest. And if it happened again, I probably wouldn't either. Probably just go back to doing it. And also like after about four weeks of absolute fucking hell, a lot of like FEMA units were sent to New York because, you know, we were, we got hit first, we got hit hard and they really did help and they were great.

They were just like, we get assigned to co would show up. They'd already frigging be there and they'd be like, go guys, go take a break, go eat a slice of pizza. And like that was, that was huge, like because we were raw, we were broken, we were just pissed and they stepped in. Actually, one guy that came here, he actually ended up catching COVID and dying and like but there were hundreds of them and they just they took the workload office for quite some time after the initial four weeks.

And that that was that was big. I mean, [ORGANIZATION] did organize that. So that was the one thing that helped. I mean, they kind of did the whole I don't know, I guess Soviet attack thing, throw bodies at it till it stops, take them from everywhere. And I guess that's what worked. That's what helped out because a lot of us were getting burnt out.

And we are not just dealing with the Covid calls, but the real burnout was dealing with the people that weren't calling for COVID that were you know, because people still get sick and after everything you see, and then you get some lady, it's just like, oh, you know, I just two weeks ago, I called my doctor. They're waiting for me at Columbia Presbyterian.

It's like, lady, no one's fucking waiting for you at Columbia Presbyterian. Why are you calling an ambulance right now? Just call a cab come on. Get it together like we've got so much work to do, and you're just tossing a monkey wrench into it, and you can't get mad at them because, you know, they're scared for the health.

It's it's natural to be scared, but, yeah, I think I wandered off from that point. But, yeah, like, those FEMA units really did help a lot. They did an amazing job, and we met a lot of them, made some good friends, and, like, they're always welcome here in New York City. no matter what they're New Yorkers.

Henry: It's I think you've explained pretty well how you're feeling like during this first wave. And you've also you've give me some great stuff on the psychology of this January and March period. Well, is there anything else you'd like to tell me about how you were feeling in that January to March period?

Kevin: Oh, I kind of like I said before, like mostly feeling a little bit selfish because I just wanted to become a medic and and and in true American form. I didn't think too much about it because I didn't think it would happen. I kind of just pushed to the side of my mind going like by the time it gets here, we're going to be, you know, going to be balls out ready for this shit.

If it even dares come here, it's not going to come here. We have systems in place. Little did I realize that I was the system in place. And you know, I. I didn't know what the hell I was doing when it started, but, yeah, it was just kind of just pushed it to a different side of my head.

And kind of ignored it, thinking it wasn't going to happen. Like, it's just the ignorance is bliss thing. I never thought it could happen to us. I never thought we'd see death on that scale from a virus, because America is always prepared, you know? But we're not prepared for shit like that. Well, at least we weren't at the time.

And if we thought we were, then we all got a real quick, stupid lesson in how unprepared we really were. And the fact that a lot of people politicized it you know, like, I remember, like, I have relatives that live in different states, and before it was coming, they were saying, like, this is a lie, it’s bullshit. What's happening?

Europe right now is all manufactured. And I'm like, it's not manufactured, but at the same time, like, it's not going to happen here. It's not going to happen here. You know, I'm looking at facts happening in different parts of the world. And people in different states are saying it's all bullshit. But at the same time, I'm just as guilty thinking like it's never going to come here.

And if it does, we'll take care of it. We're America. So yeah, we're all got a little too overconfident. And we weren't thinking of worst case scenarios we weren't brainstorming on what's going to happen if this actually hits. We weren't preparing ourselves mentally, logistically or anything. We were just kind of like, if it comes, we'll take it on.

It's not going to be that bad because America. you know, I was kind of mentally at ease. I was like, Yeah, whatever.

Henry: Do you think we weren’t preparing? Because we had this faith that, you know, we're America.

Kevin: Yeah. We were thinking like, oh, there's there's systems in place for this. Like, you know, we'll just close off borders and shit like that. You know, we'll, we'll get like, I was thinking, you know, if like, Covid comes out, we'll do proper quarantine. People will, you know, be good about that. You know, everyone will follow suit. You know, we don't want we don't want to die.

We're America. We'll get our shit together, you know, like but then I realized that, yeah, America, like, no, we don't fight things. We fight things after they fucking hurt us. And then then we get organized, you know, after this all death and bullshit.

Henry: Well, I thought the same thing about quarantines, too. Yeah, and then that cruise ship landed?

Kevin: Right? What the fuck was that?

Henry: Do you remember that?

Kevin: Yeah.

Henry: Oh.

Kevin: You know what? There was a really, like, stark moment. Where I remember, like, they had this this Navy ship coming to New York as, like, a set of medical thing.

Henry: The comfort.

Kevin: Yeah, the comfort. And it's hilarious, because I watched hundreds of people standing outside watching the ship dock, no masks on, and I'm like, What are they coming here for? If you're just going to stand there and just infect each other, like the people on the ship, it must be looking at is going like, Wow, look at all those fucking idiots right now.

Look at them. Like, What are we doing here? And, you know, it's funny. They really didn't use the ship that much. It was kind of just like a non COVID hospital, but everyone was terrified after a little while to even go to a hospital. Even today, people like are the hospitals safe? I'm like, All right, we've got it now.

It's been two years. Like, you can relax, we can get you the treatment you need. But at the time, it was just it was widespread. Just American ignorance. It really was. And that was probably the most frustrating thing leading up to the the amount of deaths where I'm sitting there thinking like, we'll be OK because, you know, I'm ignorant as well, but I'm thinking like, can can we all just try to organize ourselves?

So when we do actually fight this thing, we can do it fast and efficient, like America's supposed to be? but that didn't happen, as we saw. it got out of hand. yeah.

Henry: I know. Just to wrap up questions, is there any question that you think I should have asked that I didn't?

Kevin: No, not that I could think of. I mean, I mean, the way the events unfolded were just kind of the way they unfolded. And the thinking behind it wasn't really that complicated. And it was kind of just the what you'd expect. You know.

We weren't putting on our alpha brains on this one. We just kind of jumped into it. And so did everyone else kind of just lazily marched into this stupidity.

Henry: Anything else you'd like to tell me.

Kevin: [REDACTED]. That's about it.

They're the fucking worst.

Henry: OK, yeah.

This is coming primarily because of the PPE snafu or…?

Kevin: PPE snafu.

Just the the still degradation of any sort of morale. The fact that they thank us one day and then, like, you know, like, hey, guess what? You're mandated to work another shift today because we can't maintain a workforce because we run this thing like some third world country frigging militia, you know, they're awful. And I will not say anything that gives them any modicum of fucking respect.

I think they're all just a bunch of fat assholes that are overpaid, that don't do their jobs properly. and fuck them. So that's really about it.

Henry: You have some great quotes in here, but I'm not sure if I'm going to be including that one.

Kevin: That's fine. That's fine. OK.

Henry: All right. So that's actually a stop recording unless you have anything to add.

Kevin: No, no, I'm good.