Transcript of Interview (Tutor O)
Interviewer(s): Thy
Interviewee(s): Tutor O

Thy: But that particular one (interview) was really not as fruitful. I think ironically because it was a bigger group so everybody siam you know, wait for the other person. So I think even people like Samantha, I think I interviewed her last year.

Tutor O: Yes, last year. Yes.

Thy: I got a lot more out of her.

Tutor O: Yeah this year they are a little more lukewarm, but their quality of work has actually improved.

Thy: Yea so I’m hoping...in any case looking at their work is better evidence than what they say because what they say may not cohere with...

Tutor O: Yes actually a lot of them are... I think as they grow older, they don’t wanna talk so much you know, really. I mean when it’s time for them to talk they don’t. When it’s not time for it right they tell you all sorts of irrelevant things.

Thy: So I have to catch what it is that they say and it’s as you say, dig into that thing that they aren’t saying it because its PC to say it, or...So as usual, the main thing here is to look at your own practices with the kids, and then to look at the kids’ work and then anything you notice out of the kids..

So that’s the main thing for this time round. Before we dive into the kids’ work and stuff like that, maybe as a way for me to understand your own approach this year, can you compare let’s say from this year using Scribo versus last year? Because last year was kind of like struggling with the system still, understandably. How has it been like for you this year?

Tutor O: This year, the ride is really a lot smoother than last year, in terms of understanding how to work around Scribo, both for me and for the students. And this year, I feel because a lot of the students who continued with it were our...they had a year with us already. They are little more savvy so the writing process also comes out much easier and faster.

So I do a lot less of...okay so like last year even though we encouraged them to use the Scribo grammar check, for example, to check for their grammar errors and all, it wasn’t so well utilised. This year was much better, so I spent lesser time dealing with their grammatical errors. Because last year I still had to.

So during the teacher’s feedback after their peer review and they make their writing better, I still had to come in to tell them “Grammatically, this is still unsound. Why haven’t you changed it from the Scribo tips that they have been giving you?” But this year I do a lot less. So I concentrate more on improving their content.

Thy: Okay. That’s a positive...yeah.

Tutor O: Yeah, so I’m fortunate because I had a one year head start last year. So this year there are a lot more teachers who came onboard to do this Scribo thing. They are going through what I went through last year.

Thy: So there are no new kids who...in your class all kids were those that were on for 11 months.

Tutor O: That’s right. Just that some had to pull out due to the CDAC circumstances. I think CL mentioned before.

Thy: Yes. Okay so that’s on your end. Were you using...so you were saying that the kids are more savvy, so were you using it differently from last year? Asking them perhaps to do this first...in terms of procedure in using Scribo? Is there a difference?

Tutor O: No. I still went through...I stuck with the scheme of work that was given. So we go through whatever articles or videos that we prepared for them, go through that so that we give them some content to write about. Then give them time to do the essay, do peer review, and the teacher’s feedback. So I still follow the 4 steps that we are told.

Thy: Okay. Great.

Tutor O: Maybe the only slight difference now is as they write now, let’s say I tell them “I’m gonna give you 20 minutes to write, but I’ll check on you in 10 minutes.” So in that 10 minutes that they are writing, when I come back on to check their work from my end, I will give immediate feedback as well. So maybe that’s the only different thing that I did.

So on the spot if I see, already I tell them “Look, your approach is wrong. Your paragraph 1 need to address the who what where,” for example. “Where is your who what where? Go and insert it.” Then they do it on the spot, so that the final product is better.

Thy: The final product at the 20 minute mark?

Tutor O: Yes.

Thy: So in fact...that is a very powerful thing because right now we’re talking about just in time feedback. Because the kids always contrast it with school and they hand it in and then it goes...

Tutor O: To wait for the teacher to mark it. Yeah.

Thy: So at 10 minute mark you are obviously only attending to the content or is there still...

Tutor O: I try...I refrain from dealing with the grammar because I know after they are done, they are supposed to run their grammar checks anyway. But I told the students “I leave it to you whether you want to write one paragraph then do your Scribo grammar checks, or you want to finish because you don’t want your ideas to be interrupted.”

I say “I leave it to you,” because some people when they break, they come back, they lose their train of thoughts, and then they struggle. And I understand that because in uni it used to be like that too. If I have started right, I have something going right, don’t disturb me! Let me get it all out.

If not I take a break, I go to the toilet and I come back right, it’s like, “oh man, what was it? What was that?” It’s very frustrating. So I just remind them only, that when I come in at the 10 minute mark, I’m looking at what you have written. Have you answered the question? So I need to make sure that they are focused on the question that they are given for that module you see.

Only this year I’m able to do that, maybe because they are more savvy. So in the first 10 minutes, majority of the class would have already been on to paragraph 2 already.

Thy: Okay. So many questions I wanna ask. But that is one of the things that I told C and T at the preliminary feedback...the project...the findings was that you guys have made re-drafting and editing routinised, which is very powerful because as English language teacher, you know, getting them to edit is like pulling teeth.

But right now it has become routinised, they won’t check it so that changes their thinking about how even as a writer you function. I think the other thing that is very powerful is that they are constantly required to address the feedback that is given right, either forced to by people or by themselves.

Is that something that you see...how does that change your thinking about teaching and learning in terms of the English language, or what you observed in students? These 2 things, one is the just in time feedback, and the other one is the kids addressing the feedback.

Tutor O: Okay I look at this platform, how it changes my teaching approaches. So without having to deal with the grammatical side on this platform, I can concentrate on developing their content with them, which I feel is important. I know grammar is very important, English teachers are all sticklers with grammar right.

One small error right they feel like they need to tear their hair. But I think I practice extricating, obliterate that bit so that I can concentrate on working on building their content with them. Because looking at the syllabus, although CDAC is very nice, they tell us, “we introduce Scribo into this program, the ultimate aim is not to make sure that they can do well in their N level or O level, it’s not that.”

But of course from a teacher’s point of view, at the back of our heads is of course we hope that this program can benefit them in the longer run isn’t it? Two years...one more year down the road is their N level. So I do hope that at least from this platform, and the kind of questions that they’re going to get,

it’s kind of very expository, persuasive, their writing. It’s no longer storytelling so they need to be very task oriented. So me, being able to pull this with them, it’s useful I feel. Very useful. So I can learn...it’s also a learning curve for me because we used to be so obsessed with correcting their grammar and all that right.

Now, I tell myself let it go, and we zoom in on building their content with them. I think that helps because if we look at some of the feedback from their journals, some of them, especially the weaker ones- I’m not saying that the entire class has improved by leaps and bounds. There are still some struggling.

But the ones who are struggling, are very frank too in their journals, right? In their feedback they tell me “I can’t-I have not done expository writing and I find it very difficult. I got no points, I don’t know what to write,” which is normal. And I’m glad to see the normal problems still, you see, so then at least we know that from this platform, then we try to help them build their content.

So while those who struggle and tell me that, “Yea but I cannot write”, “I have no clue”, “I don’t know” and all, you give them some push, some pushing, tell them, “look, this paragraph...answer these questions.” So I’ll tell them what questions and then they will try to answer.

Then in fact, when you look at their essay, it’s actually quite well structured, answering the question and all. Compared to the other lot in the same class, who has written over 500 over words but a lot of it is rambling. You know where I’m coming from? Yeah so that’s why it’s pros and cons, I guess with Scribo then I can use it to try to help each child use Scribo to tailor it for their own benefit.

Thy: I think it’s interesting you use the word “structure”, because I kept hearing that word as well. So I think subconsciously (?) got it in their head. So that’s great. I’m eager to see the students’ work and their reflections but I just want to double check one other thing. This year, there was a difference from last year in that there is also the focus on comprehension right?

Tutor O: Yes, that’s right. We introduced the comprehension component in. Last year they ran it separately, so the student has to sign up for 2 different classes. So I think this year because they are Sec 3, it might be a little bit more challenging for them to pull out another evening, so they decided to merge.

Thy: So there’s 2 questions here, one is that was Scribo used when y’all were teaching comprehension?

Tutor O: No. Unfortunate no.

Thy: Number 2, putting in the compre means that the would the writing be interrupted? Last time was writing writing writing...but this time round was there like a gap between...I think when I saw it I saw that, but I just needed to confirm.

Tutor O: I don’t think it was affected because when we ran it last year, we ran it by module. Like 3 modules, 4 modules, whatever the modules are. So last year, we completed 3 modules in that year, right. So this year we are actually targeting to do 4 modules in the year.

So that’s actually 1 module more, amidst the comprehension classes and all. But I think that’s also partly because the calender changed a little bit for this year. We used to end lessons like early May, but this year CDAC extended tuition classes to end of May. So we had an extra 3 more lessons, so that helped.

Thy: But...so would they do like now it’s compo, then next 2 weeks we’ll do compre, and then we come back to compo or something like that?

Tutor O: Yeah a bit like that. So let’s say Module 1, usually takes us about 3 weeks to 4 weeks to clear Module 1. Then we change to do comprehension for another couple of weeks. Then we come back to do Module 2, for another 3, 4 weeks.

Thy: So when you talk about Module 1 and 2 they are all writing modules?

Tutor O: Yes, yes. The writing modules 1 and 2.

Thy: How are the writing modules linked to the comprehension? By topic? Or...? Not linked at all?

Tutor O: No. Not really because comprehension skills is also something that our students struggle with you see. So there are 2 prongs that we need to look at and that’s why I think at the end of the day, after all the discussion, I think CDAC decided no we still need to do comprehension with them because...yeah.

As to linking it, it doesn’t really link to the writing because there are comprehension skills we need to address with them.

Thy: So does that mean that when they were writing the exposition on climate change, the compre wasn’t on climate change? It was something else?

Tutor O: Yeah, it’s not. Because it might also be a little bit too much, overdose for the kids. So we thought...I mean I don’t know I’m looking at the materials right, when I got it, I thought it was okay, it’s good to expose them to more...different...more topics instead of just limit them to the 4 writing topics that we’re doing this year.

Thy: Did you find that then when you do Module 2, there was a lot of slack to pick up again?

Tutor O: *shakes head*

Thy: It was fine, okay. Even though there was 2, 3 weeks lapsed between 1 and 2?

Tutor O: Yes.

Thy: Okay, alright that’s great. So let’s maybe take a look at some of their reflections? I will let you share screen.

Tutor O: Okay. Let me look at...this is Simon’s. Because I’m using the work laptop so it’s a bit slow, so I can’t open the Scribo writing and the journals at the same time so I’ll finish the journals first, then close all. Then I open the Scribo platform to share their writng-you want to see their writing piece.

So this is Simon’s, I think I just want to zoom in for Simon, because he responds to my journal questions quite well. So he’s positive, like he says he feels that the new features have helped him. And you look at his spelling, his writing, his general sentence structure, it’s not so...not as bad.

Because there are some journals, some of them their grammar and all is still all over the shop. Without Scribo, I tell you...they...oh man. It’s because Scribo is doing their checks, so when they write their journals, I tell them just write, don’t worry about the grammar and all. So they really never bother to check and change.

All these blue squiggles and all, really. But that’s our kids right? You tell them don’t, they will not do right? So Simon’s, because like the first piece of writing, we got them to do a speech. So he was quite positive about the speech, he finds it easy to write. Then you see, “and my teacher was helping me and guiding me”.

So this is what I mean by I gave that immediate feedback in the first 10 minutes, that’s why he could change it, make it better on the spot. “And my range of words used,” this part here is zooming in on the Scribo, on what we input for them to check the keywords that they should and can use in their writing.

Because at the end of the day, the more keywords they use on the Scribo platform that we input, the better their score also becomes, for the students. Then they feel, “oh yeah! I’m on point! I’m on track!” for them.

Thy: Can I double check so these keywords are put in by you guys? It’s not by some AI system?

Tutor O: Mm. No, unfortunately no. I think this one, C they all will feedback to [the higher ups], to Literatu. But there are other smaller platforms which we actually haven’t utilised, like there’s the Presto platform that you can put in flash cards with key terms, or videos or what not that Scribo has actually improved on.

So that one we have to toggle with it again because I haven’t tried it yet. So I have to play around with it. So this part here, the teacher’s feedback and peer review, so these are his comments. He says it helped him to improve on his piece, and using the auto- check from Scribo has helped him.

So you see with this child, at least this student, he is following our instructions to use the Scribo checks. The last year experience was you tell them to use...use already right still 35 grammatical errors when the final product comes to me, which shouldn’t be that.

Thy: Double check this thing about the peer review, so y’all gave them some guiding questions right, because you were telling me it’s almost like a fill in the blanks kind of thing.

Tutor O: Yes. Answering the question, not so much of filling in the blanks. Like I will tell them, “okay, comment on one thing that your peer has written which impressed you.” So they go in, find that one thing that they feel “oh this is a good line”, “oh this is a good phrase”. “Suggest a way for your peer to improve on their writing.” Things like that.

So the peer review questions are very targeted. Because some of them will tell me, like for example, let me go to Serene. Okay so see Serene, let’s see...there’s somebody who tell me that “I find it awkward to do the peer review because I feel they are already very good.” Or maybe Jackson... oh sorry I need to look for Jackson.

Thy: I think Jackson was one of the very quiet ones.

Tutor O: Yeah, yes he’s like got some piece of jade in his mouth I tell you. But you see, Jackson is more responsive when he writes. You see, his reflections, he will bother to write for me. So some of them are not very vocal, but at least when they do, they will do for me.

You see, so this peer review he says “it may be also challenging to do a peer review when a person’s writing is already very good” and “I’m not very good at giving feedback to help the person improve more.” So this was the other- their own mental block. When we tell them to do peer review, they think “Huh? I have to mark?”

That’s the first thing that comes into their heads, so despite us telling them “No no no it’s not about marking, it’s about giving comments, share when you read something are you impressed by it, with it, or not at all?” Then you have to tell your classmates “not good, I cannot get your point, I don’t understand you.”

Actually that sort of feedback would help. So then bit by bit they get a little bit more detailed in their peer reviews.

Thy: So, I appreciate that you’re opening out each of them. Am I correct to say that most, if not all of them, were positive in their reflections? Or is there any that’s negative?

Tutor O: No. I have some, like I think you interviewed Wiley, Wiley was very negative. In fact, Wiley gave us a lot of challenges, because every other week he always have some problems, or other. “My headpiece cannot work, my mic doesn’t work, my laptop doesn’t work.” Something doesn’t work every week, this fella.

So you see, his first reflection was...he found it very boring. He found Scribo lessons very boring, very repetitive and uninteresting. And this was the only reflection I got from him because subsequently, some days he can log in and access his journal, some days he cannot. I don’t know why.

So that’s the challenge with him. So he is by far one of those who tell me that he didn’t find it interesting. But of course that’s managing his expectations because later on we spoke to him, C also pulled him aside and spoke to him. He said he thought that this Scribo writing was some coding class.

He says, “my father told me it was some coding class.” Then when I come in, to your horror and shock, it’s nothing to do with coding right? That’s why he wasn’t very attentive as well in class. And he’s easily satisfied. So the 2 classes, when I came back for class with them because I went on leave for about 3 weeks...

So when I came back, I resumed the writing module with them. The first thing of course I check with them was their weighted assessments. Because they don’t have mid-year exams so it’s all just weighted assessments. So majority of them actually improved.

I mean I can’t say, I will not be so brazen as to think that it’s all related and all due to our Scribo lessons. But to know that they have improved also...you know it boosts the students’ morale and also helps them to tell themselves “oh so my English lessons is not so bad what, I should concentrate a bit more, be more productive, be more cooperative.”

So Wiley had a B, our friend is very happy already.

Thy: Yeah, he told me because it was comprehension. And he had a B, you’re right. But it was also something like he didn’t hand up something or whatever it was. Got into trouble because he didn’t participate.

Tutor O: Yeah it’s the same. So that means he’s consistent. He’s like that in our class, he’s also like that in school.

Thy: And he actually says he prefers face-to-face. Maybe because this online thing wasn’t the coding that he wanted.

Tutor O: Yes, yes. If we imagine if it were face-to-face I’m even sure whether physically he would be there. On time, for example. Or every week, for example. Students just say whatever they want, we’ll take it with a pinch of salt.

Because when they’re there physically, sometimes their soul is wandering somewhere else, these kids. So with Wiley, this was his feedback. But with that said right, he’s also very positive. B3, whoo! B, you know, very happy already.

Thy: I got a feeling, I’m wondering why he is in the English tuition. Because he speaks with a bit of a twang as well right?

Tutor O: That’s right, that’s right. Mmm, I think his parents?

Thy: In fact one or two of the kids who are really struggling, the rest seem to be quite confident. So why is he in...

Tutor O: If I don’t remember wrongly, according to C, he’s from a single parent background as well. I think he lives with his father. And his father is...his only language of love is touch, so physical. So let’s say if C gives feedback to the father about him, the father would whack him.

Yeah so I think the father wants to sign him up for every tuition possible just to keep him occupied. If not he’s very into gaming. So if you look at his headphones, maybe that day with you he didn’t have his headphones, but the headphones that he has, is all those with the lights and all, for gaming kind of headphones. So I know he’s into gaming for sure.

Thy: I see. You know, he kept saying “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, what is the question?”

Tutor O: Yeah, because likely, his laptop the mic doesn’t work very well. Maybe that’s why he had the headphones. But when he puts on his headphones, sometimes...then his camera will not work. Or his headphones he can hear me, but we can’t hear him, the mic doesn’t work. All sorts of problems, this fella.

Thy: Yeah so he helped me to understand some of the issues, obviously if the child is not struggling with the language, then having the tuition doesn’t value add, not as much.

Tutor O: But you see, value add is also to each their own. I mean, a B is really not that good you know? Because you’re only at N level. If, by some stroke of fate that you need to carry out to do your O level, your B is gonna be a C in O level. You will struggle, because I mean I know he will struggle, because I’ve done both levels.

We know that they will struggle. So his problem is his attitude, and I think that’s why the father just wants to keep him in the “system”, so to speak, so that he doesn’t play punk.

Thy: So I would definitely look through their reflections, and get my research assistant to code them somewhat. Actually, what you raised was...it occurred to me that maybe I should run a Scribo on their reflections even, or find some way of coding for their improvement, because right now we have a bit of a problem of doing a pre and post in terms of statistics.

Because this year in particular, they didn’t do...did they do a diagnostic one where it’s without the use of Scribo?

Tutor O: Yes, yes they did. Oh hang on. No, not my class. I didn’t do the diagnostic, because it wasn’t a scheme of work. But our Sec 2 students, they did. All the new classes that started with Scribo, they all had the diagnostic piece.

Thy: But with your kids, if I had to pull out their word length or their Scribo scores to compare, what would be the best tool to do pre and post?

Tutor O: Let me close up all the writing journals and open up their Scribo and have a look. Because I have a few classes doing Scribo, so I got confused, I’m so sorry. I can’t remember whether they did their diagnostic piece or not, but they might have. Give me a minute let me open up.

Oh they did, yes they did the diagnostic piece, you can see it in the Scribo account if you access it. For this year, the Sec 3 classes, yes they did.

Thy: That would be way early, like February?

Tutor O: This was in January.

Thy: And so if I were to do a post and one which is as close to the context of the pre-diagnostic, which one do I use? Because last year I tried to use Module 3 because it was the one where y’all didn’t give them help right.

Tutor O: Yes, in fact this year is the same, I think Module 3 would be the...or maybe even Module 4 if you wait out until the end of the year. If you want to do it now, most of us are at Module 2 only. We will only begin Module 3 in the new semester.

Thy: Okay. What about Module 2? Module 2 had a lot of help?

Tutor O: Guide. Yes.

Thy: So I should wait for Module 3 to...when is this? July?

Tutor O: July, yes.

Thy: Okay, then I will wait for July.

Tutor O: At last week of June we will start. So you got to give us about 3 weeks for us to finish Module 3.

Thy: Okay. Last year when I compared in terms of word length there wasn’t difference, because my basic premise was that they would be so confident that they can write, it’s not so difficult to write more. But it didn’t turn out. It could be that I’m wondering, and so I want to confirm with you, is it because y’all put a word limit to it?

Tutor O: No no. They are allowed to write. We give them a word limit, yes, but Scribo, that page that they write on, allows them to write and write and write. There’s no stopping them.

Thy: Within the same amount of time?

Tutor O: Yes. It doesn’t stop them from writing more, even if we put a limit.

Thy: I mean you could see that there was a difference, but it wasn’t statistically significant. Another thing I wanted to ask was that if I were to do this pre-diagnostic comparison with Module 3, in terms of the Scribo settings, it won’t have changed right?

Tutor O: Changed. Because the diagnostic piece was a cold writing piece, so we didn’t turn on the writing checks. If you want to do Module 3 with cold writing, then we will have to inform C because the writing 3 module, it’s all prepared by CDAC you see. So they just upload it into the library, and we just drop it in for the class.

So I have to make sure that then I turn off the Scribo check function. That means I will change it to a cold writing function for them.

Thy: But very strange, I was able to get Scribo scores for the diagnostic one.

Tutor O: Yeah, you can because Scribo will still mark. Just that they do not get to run those grammar checks, spelling checks.

Thy: Okay yup this is fine. So on my end, I just need to know their scores.

Tutor O: Yeah so scores without Scribo checking their work.

Thy: Yeah I just need...so that means in the back end, Scribo...

Tutor O: On the back end, when we upload that particular activity, we have to make sure that we turn off the writing checks function. Turn it to cold writing, so that they cannot use those Scribo...when we tell them to “run your checks” they cannot run their checks.

Thy: Okay. Can y’all do that for Module 3? So that I- there’s apples and apples because that means that last year...no wonder there was a statistically significant difference last year between the scores for the diagnostic and Module 3. It wasn’t a great- an impactful difference, but at least it’s still significant.

But year round let’s raise the bar a bit, by making sure that there’s no...yeah. Didn’t have any opportunity to check and then improve upon it.

Tutor O: Can, can. I’ll let C know. Because CL would have to let Y know, because Y is doing the other Sec 3 class as well.

Thy: I will remind him, but yeah probably will keep C, good to keep C...

Tutor O: Yes yes have to. That one my boss I must report to her.

Thy: That’s great. So we are looking at student outcome earlier on on the reflections, what they’re writing, to look at student outcomes in terms of their scores, word length, Scribo scores. Are there any examples that you can show me of their actual essays when you saw that there was a difference?

Could be difference either ways. Really very bad, or maybe like last year, I remember you saying that those who came in already good, but they kind of like plateau out. So just show me any actual essays where we can comment on the difference.

Tutor O: Can, I show you.

Thy: I think maybe somebody like Samantha?

Tutor O: I’ll show you Wesley, let me see if I can find Wesley.

Thy: Wesley was another one, very quiet.

Tutor O: Yeah, very very quiet. Oh Wesley is not this class sorry. I’m always confused by which class they are from because this year we use a lot of codes. I’m all confused by the codes. So this is Wesley, Wesley wrote this diagnostic piece for us, “What did you do during your December holidays?”

So this is his writing for the diagnostic piece. He only managed to write 129 words, which is really very short. So you see his description is also very short and sweet. “During the December holidays, I experienced a lot of activities such as playing sports”, et cetera.

“Firstly, during the school holidays...secondly, my family went to...”

Thy: Definitely got structure.

Tutor O: Very structured, but definitely not a very interesting read. For this genre, it’s not interesting enough. It sounds...in fact it’s the wrong style to me, to approach this. But then I realised, this is the style he cannot do. He cannot do this kind of writing. But when I look at his...

Thy: So when y’all do that will the students be alerted that you’re running through their essay?

Tutor O: Oh they do, they are aware. Any time I’ll pull out. So this one, although his score on Scribo is only 47- so this one they are supposed to write a speech to garner support for this booth they have to run during their Green Festival in school. So he took a long time to churn this 151 word.

Because you see the rest, easily 279, 259, 200 plus, 300 plus. See, no problem right. He’s the only one at the 151. Very hard for him to write more. But if we look at the structure, it is not a bad structure. “Good morning teacher and fellow classmates, I’m the VIA of climate change and I am here to speak about why we should set up a booth about climate change.”

Clear. “Problem of climate change is caused by this and that...” He gives his facts, his reasons. “So how can we overcome this matter?” It’s very speech-like. He has a good sense, like what he’s expected to do. I just feel that it takes him a long time to get his engine started.

And I didn’t tell him to do all this. After they write, right, at least he has a rhetorical question. That’s what we look out for in speeches right? Ask the rhetorical questions, “how can we overcome this matter?” Then it sounds very speech-like, that’s why, I was telling him.

So I tried to encourage him, “Good! You got to keep it up!” But it’s very long, this process of churning this 151 words right, it’s like squeezing blood out of stone.

Thy: So this one, the good structure and all that wasn’t with input from you? He did it on his own after y’all went through the...

Tutor O: I only reminded him, because when everybody was in their 100 over mark, he’s still at the 50 word. So of course I have to come in and tell him “Okay, Wesley, you’re starting a speech right? You have to say hi right? Imagine you’re talking to people, you must say hello to them.

Then your second paragraph, what should you address? You’re gonna talk about setting up a booth isn’t it? For the Green Fest. So why? Why must set up booth?” Then he goes...

Thy: So there was a bit of input.

Tutor O: Must. So at least this is content. To me then I’m helping him with his content. Then he thinks for a while, he goes, “climate change”. Okay so what’s the problem with our climate? Why? What is with the change you need to be concerned about? Then “uhhhh” again you know? So these are his halting ideas that eventually came out.

Thy: Okay. He was reflecting that a lot of help in terms of giving him...

Tutor O: Yeah, he does. He needs a lot of help. The other person, the other person I can bring you to see is the...yes this is the “okay lah”. So I have a William, I’m not sure if he was very vocal with you.

Thy: He just said his marks improved, he sees that it’s just to help correct his grammar.

Tutor O: Yes, so William is another one, if you look through his diagnostic piece, grammatically he’s also not very...vocab wise he’s not very strong. And I also can tell when I look at their diagnostic piece, they don’t really like writing all the personal recounts and all that. They don’t really like.

Okay but that was our diagnostic piece they had to write something. The topic is easy, “what did you do during your school holidays”, how difficult is it? You must have some form of content to write it you see. But his structure is also quite clear. His introduction he gets straight to the point.

“During my December school holidays, I spend more time with my family and get to communicate more with them.” So he has his point. He gives me examples on what he did, and the final, at least he has a closing line. “My December holiday was fun for me.”

Sometimes the head and tail if you’re tied, then it makes the middle part more readable. At least I know you are task focused, you know that these are the questions and you are attempting to answer the question. So this was William at the start of the year. Then William’s latest essay, I’m gonna see situational writing, his speech.

So his speech marks-wise for him he was very happy, because his diagnostic piece was a 62. So this one he’s like “woah, an 82”. Of course he likes it and he did quite well for his WA, he improved as well. So looking at his writing, it’s very clean. “Good morning teachers and classmates. As part of our school’s annual Green Fest, our class has been assigned a booth.”

The who, what, where, when, how, all answered here. “As the class’s Values-In-Action representative, I am going to seek your cooperation and participation in setting up the class booth to raise awareness of climate change.” Wow! Clear, very clear. “So I would like the class to focus on rising sea levels.”

So here he’s like very clear cut. Why? Because we are “low-lying island with 30 percent of land less than 5m above sea level”, very dangerous, okay very good. “It is important to focus because” this is what happens. “We will set up a...” so you see he is very clear cut to me in the speech.

So that makes it very easy to read, fast to read. I get his point straightaway, I don’t have to guess.

Thy: Anyone of them if they were transferring this to their school work? That was one of things I was asking them. Of course our friends were kind of like...

Tutor O: I didn’t ask because I’m not sure whether the school will even cover the same topics, that’s one. But maybe the genre, I did ask them have they done speeches in school, so most of them have done speeches in school. So with that in mind, I told them you have to then use whatever your teacher has taught you in school, those rubrics that they want to see for speeches in your writing.

Thy: Sure. So this is using what they have learnt from school here, but is there any kid who said “Oh I use what I learn here back in school” ? Did anyone say anything?

Tutor O: Now I can’t remember if it was this year or last year...somebody did. I mean it so happened that the school also set a question that is like a speech, or something like that related.

Thy: Was that in the reflections that I can dig up?

Tutor O: No, sorry no. I also looked at it, they didn’t...because for the reflections, if I don’t give them questions to write based on the writing, they don’t know what to write as well. So I never asked that. Maybe the next time round I’ll ask.

Thy: Maybe can the next reflection in June include one question about the transfer? It’s as you say, ultimately even though CDAC says it’s not about their outcomes in school, we are curious about that. So we’ve been very much focused on their improvement cognitively, do you have any comments on their changes in their attitude towards learning of English, writing of compo?

Tutor O: With these 2 classes in particular, I think...generally, okay let’s not focus on those one or two recalcitrants. The majority of them are finding it faster and easier to get started with their writing, which is a positive thing for me. Watching them try hard because they see their own improvement is also something intangible for me.

Maybe more “tangible” in that sense for them because they see their marks. But for that few good to be transferred back to our online class, I think that is my consolation. Because then at least I know when I push through to other modules, they will be willing to try.

Because at the end of the day for me, it is not about how good you are, it’s about how hard you want to try. So for a lot of them come in with a very half-hearted kind of attitude, and to be able to see that this half-heartedness right, they leave half of that half- heartedness at the door, it’s already a boost for me.

Thy: So can you give me concrete examples of that they were trying hard? How did you know that they were trying hard?

Tutor O: I look at their peer review comments, because when they first started last year right, a lot of them were giving me those one line answers. So this time round when they are doing their peer reviews, of course I had to do the teacher thing to warn them “I don’t wanna see one line, ‘okay lah’, ‘not bad lah’, ‘can lah’”.

I said all these words, I don’t wanna see. I wanna see proper sentences, you give me point 1, point 2. And they do it.

Thy: I think they appreciate the peer review, on their own they spontaneously bring it up.

Tutor O: Oh they did? That’s nice.

Thy: Yeah so its one thing that has made an impact on them, which is great. Because I will always ask them “do you do it in school?” “Nah.” So apart from that did you find if they were struggling with understanding the feedback that’s coming back from...?

Tutor O: Yes, some. Some didn’t quite know what to do, then when I read the feedback I also don’t know what the friend is trying to say.

Thy: Okay. But Scribo itself, apart from the peer review comments, do they understand?

Tutor O: They understand more than last year, but to be fair Scribo remarks are not easy to understand, the level is quite difficult. Let’s say...let me go to Scribo summary. So for example, Scribo will tell you this, “your most repeated word is ‘class’, repetition is hard to avoid” , so summary is still easy to understand.

If they have slightly more difficult ones, let me go to the...let’s say I want them to improve sentences, this one I have not ventured with them because a lot of them...I mean I have, but I have done only maybe say sentence fragments.

So sentence fragments like these, they said “you have 2 fragmented sentences. To be a complete sentence there must be a subject, verb and a complete idea.” So this one, I didn’t correct him because this is a speech. They are allowed to “good morning teachers and classmates,” they are allowed to do that.

So I had to bend the rules a little bit for them here. Now if there are like these, they read it, they also don’t understand. “Sentences with too many noun groups”. They don’t know. “Cher what? What do I do?” While they explain that means “there are lots of ideas which may make the sentence hard to read”,

You tell them this, “you have are too many ideas.” So here I am explaining to my dying breath, telling them “you have too many ideas, you need to combine 2 ideas into one sentence”, they may not get it. So for instances like that I still have to step in to tell them “okay...”

“As part of our school’s annual Green Fest, our class has been assigned a booth, full stop.” “This booth, assigned or given by the organisers is set up to raise awareness of climate change, full stop.” So I have to tell them “maybe you need to do this.” Then they “ohhh...”

Thy: Can I understand the bars that’s on the right hand side? What’s this P1?

Tutor O: Noun groups. The different types of noun groups in paragraph 1, paragraph 2, paragraph 3.

Thy: Oh, P meaning paragraph. Then 4 and 5 is what?

Tutor O: This 4, I actually also don’t know yet. Sorry. Because some of these right, I’m still figuring out as well, what they are and what they do. So I try to look at the colour.

Thy: Yeah there was one that was colour...

Tutor O: Coded. Maybe it’s my laptop that’s hanged...

Thy: It’s okay, I’m very well aware I have 2 more minutes and then I will have to...but I’m wondering whether then...I don’t want Y to wait and all that. Is there anything-you yourself having gone through the 11 months and all, anything that would improve the program which uses Scribo?

Tutor O: I think more classes, which is actually in the pipeline already, more classes using Scribo would be good. Because then the exposure to the program, more people are exposed to it, more students, more teachers are exposed to it. Then the learning for both ends becomes easier.

I think for a lot of the teachers, this year especially, they’re still struggling to learn how Scribo works. It is not a very complicated platform, but because it’s a writing platform a lot of expectations are set by the teachers. So while it can do a lot, there are also certain limitations that cannot meet the teacher’s expectations.

So I feel for the program to really do well, I think anybody, any teacher who comes in, even any student, must jump on this project with a very open mind. Of course we have to, of course we all have expectations, but we have to manage it.

If not it gets frustrating, because then you would feel “Huh? You mean this program can’t do this? Then what’s the point?”, for example. Then it all boils down to our expectations, what do we expect the program to do? Maybe we have to take another perspective with what can the program do for us then.

Thy: Okay, thank you. And then one last one would be what is your most memorable experience? Going back 11 months. It can be memorable good, memorable bad.

Tutor O: Bad memories are all the glitches that the students go through, and they still give these problems today. “Internet connection no good, very slow, very laggy, I can’t log in, I can’t access my journals” and all. Frustrating right, because we do have the Scribo classes running in-person.

So the in-person ones I also get these problems, but it’s less because I’m there, then I know they’re not pulling a fast one on me. But that said, it still took time. So my original plan of taking 45 minutes to do the writing may stretch to 1 hour and 10 minutes. So that’s time wasted in that sense.

So that’s the not so fun takeaway. On the brighter side of things, I am actually quite happy to see that kids are more inspired to write these days. When they open up, “class let’s go to our new module today.” I mean it’s met with lukewarm and non-committal, as they seem to be...they will.

I can see their eyes peeled on my videos, or reading the articles for me. I see an effort to use the content that we give them in their writing, I think that’s my answer. It’s still worth it.

Thy: Can I double check, so you do...apart from the 100% online one, there is one that is face-to-face. So which do you prefer, the 100% online one or hybrid?

Tutor O: Hybrid. I like to see students’ faces, because then they can’t hide. I don’t see their ceiling fan, their ceiling lights, or their toilet doors. Sorry I’m getting emotional.

Thy: Yeah I understand I take my hat off to you, I mean how do you engage kids when you can’t see even their eyes to feedback for ourselves. Can I do a rain check? If there’s anything else I need to get back can I just...you know.

Tutor O: Feel free.

Thy: Because I just quickly text Y “sorry sorry gonna be a bit late.” But I think I would stop here, thank you very much.