Interviewer(s): Timothy Price
Interviewee(s): Participant 10

Timothy Price: Alright so what we'll start with is I'm going to read you a series of statements. That are. It's a consent process. So it's basically just making sure that you understand what we're doing and that we have your permission for you to take part in the study. So I'm going to read you each of these statements and I'll just ask that you say either yes or I agree, or no, I don't agree to each one.

Participant 10: All right.

Timothy Price: Okay, yeah. Alright, so the first one I confirm that I've read the information sheet for this study. I've had the opportunity to consider the information to ask questions and have had these questions answered satisfactorily.

Participant 10: Yes.

Timothy Price: All right, I understand my participation is voluntary, and that I am free to withdraw it anytime without giving any reason. I also understand that I can decline to answer any questions during the interview.

Participant 10: Yes.

Timothy Price: I understand that information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University. Who are working on or assisting with the study I give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

Participant 10: Yeah.

Timothy Price: I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for use in future research or teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymized first

Participant 10: Yeah.

Timothy Price: I understand that the interview will be audio video recorded according to my preference typed out and that all my identifying personal details will be removed.

Participant 10: Yes.

Timothy Price: I understand the direct quotations may be taken from what I say and used in future research and publications, but I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

Participant 10: Yeah,

Timothy Price: I agree to take part in this study.

Participant 10: Yes, I agree.

Timothy Price: Excellent. There's just two other things. If you'd like to receive a copy of the research findings. When the study is completed. You can either let me know now, or email me after the fact and I'd be happy to send those to you.

Participant 10: Oh yes please. That sounds interesting that would be good.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. So the study will be completed. Towards the end of August, so you can expect to see that to your email address around that time. Yeah. And if you'd like to receive a hard copy of the study documents you can let me know. Now I would mail those to you, but I would need your mailing address to do that.

Participant 10: And I think just an email. Will it be the same by email?

Timothy Price: Yeah, exactly the same. I just, just like to give people that option in case they prefer to have hard copies of things.

Alright, so that's all that out of the way so we can go ahead and get started here. And you have two children. Is that right?

Participant 10: I do. Yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And how old are they?

Participant 10: They are two and five.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Um, so the five year old has started school then right?

Participant 10: She has yeah she started last September.

Timothy Price: Yeah, how was how was she liking it?

Participant 10: Um yeah, it took her a few weeks to um, before she settled. Now obviously she's still off and has been for a few months. And I think she'll be okay when she goes back.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And how are, how are things going with having the kids at home all the time now?

Participant 10: Um okay. It's just been an adjustment because I am, I was working. But then it was a seasonal contract and it was like a heritage site. And so obviously we didn't open for this season. So I'm at home and my husband's working from home. So I'm kind of a stay at home mum now, which wasn't really my plan, but I'm, it's, yeah, it's okay. We're lucky. Oh my god. And we've got, you know, woods and lots of land near us which is good.

Timothy Price: Yeah, it's nice to have some outdoor access, but I think that, you know, if you're if you're doing okay this year you're doing the best you can. So I think that's kind of the most we can ask for at this point.

Participant 10: Yeah, yeah.

Timothy Price: So can you tell me a little bit about your children like what are their names are kind of things do they like to do just any you know anything?

Participant 10: [Older child] is the elder, she's five and [Younger child] is two and and they like all sorts. You know being outside and lots of like messy play and discovering things and they love seeing their family and their grandparents and um, the younger, [Younger child], likes dolls and cars and things like that. Whereas [Older child] likes drawing and art and those kinds of things.

Timothy Price: Yeah, very cool. So can you tell me what you know about the flu. So just sort of your first impressions when you hear the word flu. You know what kind of symptoms do you think of? Is it a serious illness? You know, what can you tell me about the flu?

Participant 10: Well, I always think, you always, sometimes people tend to think that it's just a more severe cold and then I hear people say, "oh, well, if you think it's just a cold you haven't had it and it's much worse than all that" so I don't know if I've ever had it. Um, but yeah, I know that you can children can be immunized. And if you work in certain fields you're immunized. I used to work in social housing with over 55s so I was entitled to an immunization at work. Yeah I know that it, that it's responsible for however many deaths a year and and that's what you know the figures, people were throwning around when they saw coronavirus and you know "can't be that bad in comparison to the regular flu". But yeah that's as much as I know really. Obviously when I was pregnant I was immunized and With the flu. But apart from that for myself, it's not a regular thing. My husband's offered his at work so he gets it and and yeah I guess it's I, I just, I suppose, is normalized in a way. Um, but with the kids and they do get their immunizations. Usually.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so has, your older daughter that's [Older child] right? Yeah, yeah. So did [Older child] received the flu vaccine this year. Do you remember?

Participant 10: She did yeah, at school, she had this spray up her nose.

Timothy Price: And [Younger child] did not have it. Is that right?

Participant 10: She didn't. I think it's hard to remember that far back because I was finishing my dissertation around that time and and I think she was offered at the local clinic of doctors. But I think it clashed and she was either a nursery or she was being looked after by my mom and I couldn't get to the doctors and I think she missed the window for it.

Timothy Price: Sure.

Participant 10: So that was my negligence really. But this year, I will, you know, see what everything's going on. I'll make an effort to get there. And, but I think it was more of an open clinic. I think they changed their and their way of doing it, so it was like a window that I had to get there. And I wasn't able to make it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so it was rather than like making an appointment. It was like, you can bring her in, you know, at this time, and she'll be seen?

Participant 10: Yeah.

Timothy Price: Sure. Um, so do you. When you think about the flu in children. Would you worry about one of your children getting the flu? I mean, of course you don't, you know, nobody ever wants their child to get. But is it something that if you realize she was coming down with it, would you, you know, would that make you any more worried than any other illness or not really?

Participant 10: I don't think so. No, it wouldn't be really, I mean obviously now with coronavirus and all the things you hear about different strains and possibilities of mutations and all that. I mean, I don't, I'm not an expert on it, but I. No, I think I wouldn't be too concerned. [Older child] when she was about 18 months, she had pneumonia and she had to stay in hospital. So I suppose I'd be worried that she'd be more susceptible to chest infections and things. I think the smaller they are, although [Younger child] is quite robust now she's having a bit of a growth spurt, but when they're, you know, when they're smaller and more fragile you do worry. And but they do both seem quite hardy and then they both had chicken pox. And, you know, all sorts of illnesses. I'm sorry. No, I think wrongly or rightly, I don't think I'd be too concerned. No.

Timothy Price: Yeah sure. No, that that makes sense to me. I mean, it sounds like they've been aside from [Older child] with her pneumonia, it sounds like they're generally healthy. I can see why, you know, you wouldn't be, wouldn't be super worried. So can you explain to me what you think getting sick with the flu is like for children? Are there any specific symptoms that come to mind? If you don't know, that's fine too. Just, you know, if one of your daughters was going to come down with flu, what sorts of things would you expect to see happening?

Participant 10: Um, well, I know that the adults experience and chills and sweats and shakes. And, I think, is it nausea and headaches as well? I don't know if there's any difference. I haven't, I haven't looked up or, um seen any, you know, you read pamphlets and the doctors. I haven't discovered if there's any differences between children. So I wouldn't know. I suppose what we do do when they get a little ill, we do, we got Dr. Google. So then when they are ill and so yeah, I don't know if there's any distinct difference between children and adults getting it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, sure. Um, so that's actually one of my next questions here is when you want to learn more about a sickness, like the flu, where would you go to get that information? So, you know, you mentioned searching online. Can you, is there specific websites or resources that you use or is it just, you know, kind of typing the symptoms and see what comes up?

Participant 10: Yeah, I think, to begin with, probably type in the symptoms and then definitely refer to the NHS website. I mean you kind of have a good idea which websites are to be trusted. And you know which ones, know more than others and and then when it if something was to be serious, we have phoned the 111 before when [Older child] was younger. I think we kind of have a bit more experience now like we know a bit more now. But um yeah, those are, those kind of things that we would do. And then also, family members, and you know, get your second opinion from your mum if you're not sure. And if it's not an emergency. Then also, also they have the health visitor on hand, but we haven't really seen ours for a while. I think, usually when you've got your first child and you're kind of not too sure what you're doing you speak to the health visitor. And then once you have another one you just, you know, you just let them raise themselves.

Timothy Price: Yeah. You've done it all once before, you're basically an expert at that point.

Participant 10: Yeah

Timothy Price: Yeah. So it sounds like from what you're saying that if it was just kind of general interest learning you'd be using, you know, the internet and the NHS website. But if it was something that felt urgent or that you were worried about, that's when you would be more inclined to call 111. Is that, am I understanding correctly?

Participant 10: Yeah, there's been a few times when Violent was ill and was quite ill throughout the night and and you know when it's night time, it feels so much worse. I think when she had a really high temperature and it wouldn't go down and she... yeah, she had to be taken to the doctors in the end, some... I think it was an infection or something. But yeah, at night we would call 111 more. I know. In fact, the other week. [Younger child] was given sugar free jelly sweets by my mum who thought they were healthy because they were sugar free, but obviously they cause sickness and diarrhea and she just turned white. I didn't know what was wrong with her. I think she's so small she um, yeah, it affected her really badly. But see, I mean she expelled it all. Was immediately fine afterwards and but that yeah we were on the on the brink of calling 111 because she just she kind of collapsed and she went all white in the face.

Timothy Price: Wow, yeah. I'm glad she was okay. That sounds like it was a pretty scary situation.

Participant 10: I think because she couldn't tell us what was wrong and you know you just kind of think the worst. And because she went blue in the lips, and I know that could be a lack of oxygen. But yeah, it was just sweets.

Timothy Price: Well, I'm glad that that had an easy resolution.

Participant 10: Yeah absolutely.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so have you ever talked to your, like one of your children's GP or the health visitor about flu specifically? Or has it always just been kind of more general, you've never brought it up?

Participant 10: Yeah, more general. I don't think they've ever targeted. I don't think they've ever said, you know, the flu. They might have said it in a general way, but I don't think they've said these are the symptoms for children and and these are the statistics and risks. I think it's been accepted that it's one of those things that it's just offered and that you just got without complaints.

Timothy Price: So does flu, like when you think about flu, does it seem to you like something you think of as avoidable? or is it something that just feels sort of inevitable, like, you know, children are going to get the flu, just like they're going to get any other illness?

Participant 10: Um, I think. See, I don't know for children, I would think possibly for adults that its just inevitable but I never, I've never really thought of children and getting the flu before. Just like the regular coughs and colds. I mean, when they both started going to nursery. They were 18 months to two years old, and especially [Older child], she was loaded with colds and for like the next four months.She, she just constantly got colds and I would take it to the doctors and the chest infections and and they said, you know, "it's not, this is not, one's viral and one's bacterial but it's not whatever needs treatment" and and then on the sixth time I took her in it was a chest infection. That was when she got taken into hospital for pneumonia, but I think, yeah, you just accept that they'd get lots of colds and simple. And I've never, I've, you know, I've never thought of them having it, being you know debilitated by the flu before. I've never really thought its something children get. But then I suppose they do get because you immunized against it. I don't know how effective the immunizations are, I guess I've just accepted that it's just a good, sensible thing to to allow them to have done.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. So what do you think like the benefits are of having your child get the flu vaccine or are there any benefits or have you never maybe thought about benefits before? Can you speak to that a little bit?

Participant 10: Well, I've probably never given it the time properly to think about it, other than just hoping that it would minimize their risk of contracting it.

Timothy Price: Yeah.

Participant 10: Yeah, that's all. I've never really stopped to think. Um I know that it and, well, there's no negative side effects that I've been told of, just low, you know, relativley low risk and and that it will prevent them from getting it. So I guess that's all I've thought about it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, I mean, those are, sounds like some benefits to me. So you sort of spoke to this a little bit, but I'm curious, maybe a little more broadly. Do you think there are downsides to getting the flu vaccine? And when I, when I say downsides, that can be side effects, adverse reactions or whatever. But it could also be, you know anything else, whether it's the inconvenience, the children don't like it, you know, kind of any downsides, you can think of. Do you think there are downsides and if there are, what would they be?

Participant 10: Um I don't. Yeah, as I said, probably. I'm sure there will be, you know, one in however many chances of getting side effects and because there's always side effects aren't there? But I suppose the greater good outweighs it. With the discomfort, [Older child] when she got the nasal spray. I mean, they would have had it explained. I think, a letter came home and I said to her, you know, "this is going to happen and this is why you need it". And and then they would have obviously said it again at school. I think because all of her peers were getting it was probably a bit exciting and they were she was mentioned it before actually because I told her about this. And she said, "Oh, yeah, I have my spray and you get given a tissue afterwards to wipe your nose" and so I think it's probably good to teach them that discomfort, things like that, you know, you need your vaccinations and, and I guess yeah the inconvenience of having to schedule appointments and I mean I, yeah, kind of, um, should have taken [Younger child], should have organized my time, but I was all wrapped up in the dissertation. So yeah, and I guess that's it, it's not really an area that I'm knowledgeable in I guess. I've just accepted that it's, you know, it's done for a good reason. And just get on with it.

Timothy Price: Yeah well and that you know that is that's a perfectly valid answer to you certainly don't need to be an expert in, you know, this kind of thing. It's perfectly reasonable to just, you know, kind of accept it and get on to all the other things. Parents are busy people, they certainly don't need to be, you know, trying to become an expert in everything by any means.

Participant 10: Yeah, I think it's just widely accepted that it's just one of those things. And it's, yeah, it's not really viewed as anything sinister. So yeah

Yeah.

Timothy Price: So to you. It sort of sounds like if I'm understanding correctly. It's that you have the sense that this decision, you know, kind of weighing the benefits weighing the risks, all that stuff all those decisions have been made sort of by other people and you Sort of trust, trust in a sense, that those decisions are the right ones. And so you're willing to go along with that is that, does that seem fair to say?

Participant 10: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's right. I think I might read around it a bit more now. But I think. Yeah, and I think is. Yeah, that's right. Um Yeah, I feel foolish now because I usually read into things but and I think yeah because generations of just accepted it and that it's kind of like norm, isn't it, that you just and and like I say, I've, I've never seen any met anyone with really bad effects from it.

Timothy Price: Yeah no, the point is not to make you feel foolish at all. So, so please don't feel like you know I'm expecting you to have a very comprehensive accurate answers to these things, you know, part of what what we're trying to learn is what parents now and if parents don't know all that much about it that's an interesting finding too. So don't feel like you were supposed to be an expert coming into this because thats definitely not the case. And I think sometimes, too.You know when it's something about your child's health, it's, it's important to know what you do and what you don't know. And you're not, you don't need to be an expert in all of these things.

Participant 10: Yeah.

Timothy Price: So if you want to learn more about a vaccine, you know, anything like who its recommended for, you know, what does it do all that kind of stuff. Where would you go to get that information and where have you gotten that information past?

Participant 10: When they are younger, and then they get all their um, like the MMR and all the different immunisations that they're given in the first year. You get a lot of pamphlets from the health visitor and from the GP and you get the red book, the log book and and there's lots of information there. So that was um yeah that's primarily where I would get it from.

Timothy Price: Yeah, sure. So, so things, it would be information provided by the GP right?

Participant 10: Yeah. Yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, or. And you also mentioned for your, for your older daughter, it was a letter sent back from the school, but it was about the in school program.

Participant 10: Yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, yeah. Um, so you mentioned for these kind of next couple questions, talking about [Younger child] specifically, you mentioned that she had not received the flu vaccine this year is that right? In this past fall, is that right?

Participant 10: Yeah, that's right.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so I think you spoke to this a little bit before but I just want to make sure that, you know, I kind of understand correctly. My question is, how important was it to you that she not receive the flu vaccine was it something that you were like, you know, "no that's not a good option for her. We're not going to do it, or was it something that was more like, Well, you know, we'll see what happens"?

Participant 10: Um, yeah, I think rather we'd see what happens. I think, I'm not against having it. I would. It was really just a logistics thing that I that she was either. I can't remember that far back. She was either in nursery or she was with my mom for the day and so I didn't ask her to take her because I thought it'd be more inconvenient for her and. And yeah, so it was just a scheduling thing really and I, my husband was a bit annoyed because he was like, "Oh, she should have it. You know, it's important for them" and but I. Yeah, so he, as I said he has his every year at work. And so he probably feels it's more important for them but I it's kind of like a bonus. I thought that she would get it and because, as I said I'm not that I'm, you know, knowledgeable about it. I just wasn't sure the risks of children getting it. So it really was like, if I could have made it, I would have taken her. And I definitely will this year, this has made me think I will take the initiative. But yeah, that was it, just scheduling.

Timothy Price: Yeah, no I that that makes sense to me. I think, you know, especially for parents with multiple children and you were working on, you know, your dissertation. It's people get busy, things get prioritized and you know sometimes just the way it works out some things are not going to happen. Um, I'm curious when you have. Can you walk me through the process of how you learned that she was eligible was it, I think you said something about a letter? Was that link an invitation from the GP or something else? How did that work?

Participant 10: It was. Yeah, it was an invitation, um, I think what it was was I think initially they did give me an appointment. and I phoned and I said "I can't make this. Can we reschedule it?" and they said, "Oh, well, there's a we're just doing clinics now." And so they wouldn't give me another appointment. It was like, something like eight until 11 and, you know, on a Thursday morning or whenever. And there's, where I live there's, we go to like a branch of GPs. So it's, so there's one about a mile away. There's one in the village that we live in and which is open for less hours. So it depends, you know, which one you get an appointment at and we're lucky, we've got, you know, a car. So we don't need to rely on the bus. So, um, yeah. So it was just the timing really.

Timothy Price: Yeah, just it just wasn't time that worked.

Participant 10: Yeah

Timothy Price: So it sounds like there were, you know, you were given one time and that time wasn't convenient for you. And then the second opportunity was also not convenient. So it was there was not a lot of opportunity to make it happen. It was just these two options. And if it didn't happen then than it wasn't going to happen.

Participant 10: Yeah, they tend to do that with a lot of the baby, things like the baby clinics on a specific morning every week. Um, well, I mean, obviously it's, you know, the, yeah. The service is a good and that it's limited by the staff and the premises that they have, so it's no one's fault really. But it, yeah, when I was at uni and I and I was working as well so it was hard to fit everything in. And, um, but, yeah, so that's really, that's just what happened.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so my next few questions are just kind of that helped me learn your thoughts about vaccination like in general. So have your children received any of their other vaccinations, like, you know, the standard childhood vaccinations?

Participant 10: Yeah, yeah. They're all up to date with those.

Timothy Price: Yeah, um, and can you explain how you decided that they would receive those vaccinations, or did you feel like there was a decision to be made there at all?

Participant 10: Um, I think, yeah, I think I just accepted that they were, um, you know, it was in their best interest and and obviously I'd had them and my husband had them and my siblings and everyone that I know and I've had them. And, and whats the one? It's measles that yeah they can't be vaccinated until a certain age, so it was. And, you know, you see other cases, really, you know, horror stories about babies catching these things and they're not been able to fight infections off. So I think I just thought, just acknowledged that it was for the best. I mean it is yeah, especially when with your first one, and they're so small and they don't like it. But they don't remember it and yeah, you just accept that its in their best interest.

Timothy Price: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, --

Participant 10: Sorry, I was just gonna say that the nurses and the doctors that give them, they, they acknowledge that you might be apprehensive, and they do answer the questions they sit with you. So that's another like reassurance from them as well.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that's nice. That sort of transparency, maybe the willingness to talk about it can be helpful you think?

Participant 10: Yeah yeah

Timothy Price: Yeah, um, and have you personally had the flu vaccine this year?

Participant 10: Um, what was I doing last year? No, because I was in a different job and no, it wasn't offered to me. And, and I wasn't sure if I was eligible, actually. And my husband seems to think I would be and that you just go out and ask to have it done. But I, it wasn't really, it's not really on my radar. But as I say after this I might pay a bit more attention and might get it done.

Timothy Price: Yeah, sure.

Yeah, so that's actually, that's all of my questions. So the kind of the thing that I like to close on is just, is there anything about the flu or the flu vaccine or vaccination in general on anything you were hoping I've asked about that. I didn't that you'd like to speak to?

Participant 10: Um, no, I don't think so, because I didn't really have any prior knowledge and other than just accepting it was a kind of a, you know, a thing that happens and it was a good thing that you've got this extra protection for the most vulnerable people. So I think I thought that children and mostly I knew that older people at my old work those over 55s were given it and and then people and that might, you know, be vulnerable need it. But it's, yeah, it's not really anything it's it's not usually at the forefront of my mind really.

Timothy Price: Yeah, something it's something that you think of mostly as like a problem for older adults or people with, you know, severe medical conditions. But because you and your family, don't fall into that category. It just isn't something you had really given much thought to is that does that sound right?

Participant 10: Yeah. And also I think because, because of this whole "oh if you've never had flu. You don't know that you've had it, you've haven't had it" kind of mentality and and then when people will do complain and say, "oh, I think I've got the flu" and and everyone else says "It's not that bad". It's supposed to be this terrible thing, so I think when I have felt really ill I think, "is that bad enough to be the flu?" So I don't think I've had it. I'm not, so I guess it's just, it's just something that I assume you just get any usually get over. You know, if you're young enough and and health enough and so it's just something really to be endured. And it's just like a kind of illness that you just get and get over. Obviously there's complications with other people. Um, but touch word I think hopefully we would be okay.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so it's yeah that makes sense to me. That's interesting that sort of the you know all the talk about. Because I've heard people say that exact same thing that if you, you know, "if you think you had the flu. You didn't have the flu. Because if you did, you know." I kind of, that almost sort of makes you think, like, Well, I don't know, you know, maybe I maybe I have had it. Maybe I never have. Maybe it's a big deal. Maybe it is. It pushes you away from thinking about it a little more.

Participant 10: Yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that's, that's a really interesting point that thanks for thanks for bringing that up. That's interesting. So that, like I said that my last question. So unless there's anything else that you wanted to add. I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording now.

Participant 10: No, that's, that's all

Timothy Price: Awesome. All right.