Russell P. Breyfogle, Jr. Oral History Interview
Interviewer(s): Robert Klein
Interviewee(s): Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.

Robert Klein: Today's June 22, 2005. This is Bob Klein. And I'm interviewing Russ Breyfogle, who was a Peace Corps volunteer in Kenya in secondary education. 1964 to '66?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. 1964.

Robert Klein: So let's go back to a year before you joined the Peace Corps.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I happened to be a teacher. I taught three years before I went in the Peace Corps.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I was teaching an experimental program for high school dropouts in Flint, Michigan, called the Personalized Curriculum Program. And I was realizing that teaching students, at least those students I had, I was not very well prepared to teach them. Massive problems. And so I realized I was dealing with an unusual population at least in traditional school sense. It was a great experience, and I enjoyed it.

Robert Klein: What degree did you have?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I was completing, I had a bachelor's degree in history and government from Beloit College.

Robert Klein: What year did you graduate?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: 1957. And I was completing a master's degree, going to summer schools at Western Michigan in teaching of social studies.

Robert Klein: Right. And that, you were in the middle of that?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: During your third year of teaching?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. And then I completed the degree before I went into the Peace Corps.

Robert Klein: Okay. Um. Where did you grow up?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: In Three Rivers, Michigan, which is about 25 miles south of Kalamazoo.

Robert Klein: You went to high school there?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, I did.

Robert Klein: In high school, did you do any kind of volunteering work or travel?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, my parents did the best they could on very limited budgets to try to get us to travel some. Like I remember my dad taking us to Niagara Falls when I was five or six. And then he knew that with a war breaking out, he made a quick trip to Alabama to see his sister and brother-in-law in 1942, just before gas rationing. But we saw the Smoky Mountains.

Robert Klein: Siblings?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I'm the youngest of four. I have two sisters and a brother so, and that's our order. Girl, girl, boy, boy.

Robert Klein: Okay. And you went straight from high school to college?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, I did.

Robert Klein: And at the point you're entering college, what was sort of your career goal?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I, my dad had been active in politics. At that point, never was successful in elective office, but was a delegate to the Republican convention in 1952 and was a Taft delegate, conservative Republican family. And so I thought I would, since I had majored in government and history, I thought I would have a career in politics.

Robert Klein: During the four years in college, [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I worked for the U.S. Forest Service in Idaho, in Montana. I was stationed in Idaho, but I fought forest fires in Montana. And I did that summers of '53, '54. So between my high school and Beloit, I was in Idaho and then also the next year. So I did, did travel. Yes. And one of the ironies is when I was in Idaho the second year, it was rainy. It was a rainy season and there weren't very many fires and not many prospects. The year before was very dry and so I made a lot of money, I mean, at a $1.50 an hour. But, you know, when you work 14 hours a day or so, you end up making a decent, a decent income.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But anyway, so this one fella was going to take a quick trip down the coast, Pacific Coast, down through Oregon and California. There are two of them, so I ended up traveling with them. The fellow who was the primary organizer had an uncle who lived in Beverly Hills, was the head set director for 20th Century Fox. And so we met Marilyn Monroe and Gene Simmons. And for a 19 year old, you know, this is.

Robert Klein: Uh, so after college, your first degree at Beloit, you started teaching?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, I worked. Let me back up.

Robert Klein: Sure.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I, I lived in a funeral home in Beloit. Actually, when I was in college my freshman year, all four of us were in college. And so my parents, although my dad certainly would be a middle income person making eight or $9,000 bucks a year in those days, he didn't have that kind of money. My sisters were on scholarship and my brother at Western Michigan, I don't think his school cost maybe three or $400 a year in those days. And Beloit was relatively expensive at $1,300 a year.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so I ended up living in a funeral home. So I got my room. I got 25 bucks a week. So that, but I ended up, when I graduated from college, I ended up with $90 in my pocket, so I was debt free. But anyway, I went to work in Detroit for the Aetna Casualty and Surety Company because I was going to be a big business type.

Robert Klein: And then go into politics.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Right. But anyway, when I, prior to my going to Detroit working for the Aetna, I had given myself a 30 day vacation. And so I had hitchhiked up to Maine and the New England states and ended up in Washington, D.C., and stayed at the YMCA, which was a few blocks from the White House. And ironically, a fraternity brother who was from Stanford but he was a political science professor at San Jose State. And I realized that he'd ran for Congress in 1956 as a Democrat. And so I wrote him a card at Christmastime and said, although I'm a Republican, I'll come out to California and help your campaign if you're going to run again. And he wrote back and said, I'm not running for Congress this year, but going to South America. Are you interested? So I quit my job with the Aetna and I traveled to Mexico, Central and South America.

There are three of us, and we got stuck on a sandbar in the Magdalena River in Colombia. And he and the other person were on a timetable. I mean, like he had to be back in fall time to teach. All I had to do was get back and get drafted. And so we split. But then I traveled on my own for the rest of that trip. I spent a total of $600 for four and a half months. I literally ran out of money in Buenos Aires. And a German ship captain, the 24th ship captain I'd asked, said yeah, I could work on the ship. Didn't make any money, but I went from Buenos Aires to New York. So I had done some travel and service.

Robert Klein: How about had you picked up any language?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Spanish, I knew some.

Robert Klein: You wouldn't consider yourself fluent?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No. I mean, when I was there, of course, I got, I could survive with it.

Robert Klein: Right. Okay, so you finally, you get back to New York and then back to?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Three Rivers, Michigan. Went back to my draft board and said I'm here, and seven weeks later I'm in the Army.

Robert Klein: So that put you?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That would take us up to December 1958.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Served 21 months. Got an early out and go to western Michigan to start my teaching certificate and master's degree.

Robert Klein: At what point did you become aware of the Peace Corps?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, surprisingly enough, in the campaign of 1960, I was aware of that being talked about. And then I kind of put it in the back of my mind until summer school in western Michigan in 1963, and the Peace Corps recruiter was there. And so I said, well, this sounds like a possibility for me, being single. So I got the information and filled out whatever I had to do at that time.

Robert Klein: It was a fairly lengthy application, I don't know if you remember it?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, yes.

Robert Klein: One of the things they ask is the preference for area. Do you recall?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I left that blank. I said anywhere.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Because I thought maybe at least with my even my limited Spanish, I might go to Central or South America.

Robert Klein: And did you think some familiarity with?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. I said, I'm not trying to deceive anybody, I'm not fluent.

Robert Klein: Right, right. Were they still taking the entrance exams? [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I, I don't remember, except for when I went into training, when I went to Columbia University, we had a battery of tests.

Robert Klein: No, this would have been, well, they may have stopped by then.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Or they may have and I'm just forgetting that.

Robert Klein: Yeah. So when did you apply?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I applied in that summer of '63.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And made at least an initial application that said I wouldn't be available until after August of '64. I did want to graduate with my master's degree.

Robert Klein: So you completed your master's.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Did you do student teaching?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I had done student teaching back when I got out of the Army in the academic year '60-'61. I did my student teaching at Western Michigan University, I mean, at Three Rivers High School.

Robert Klein: Once you applied, did you think that was it or were you still looking for career alternatives or jobs?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, when I was in Peace Corps, I was very open to whether I got assigned land settlement, teaching, whatever.

Robert Klein: But would you have fallbacks [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I was planning on then to stay on teaching where I was. And I got accepted in April or May of that year. Got a telegram from Sargent Shriver.

Robert Klein: Mm hmm.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so then I made that announcement that I was not going to be back for next year because I was going in the Peace Corps.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Said you'd been accepted for Kenya. Training at Columbia University Teachers College, Columbia. Such and such dates, like September 15th to December 20th or whatever.

Robert Klein: What was your reaction?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I was, I was, I was really excited. I thought, this is a tremendous, a tremendous opportunity. But also I was really honored in getting this far in the acceptance process.

Robert Klein: And what was your family's reaction?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I, of course, called my parents, told them what I was doing. Since I'd been to South America and survived, my parents were not terribly distraught. And my dad had been in World War I in France, and so he could see the value of travel.

Robert Klein: What [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, they were, they were very encouraging, very supportive.

Robert Klein: Any fears or?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yeah, they too thought this was just a tremendous experience. Certainly an enriching one to make a better teacher.

Robert Klein: Not that you were crazy or?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, no.

Robert Klein: And what did you know of Kenya?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, of course, I had, having taken history and government through college in the fifties, I was aware of the Mau Mau movement. And obviously, very biased, very pro-British at that point in time. I shouldn't say pro-British, but certainly not pro-Africa.

Robert Klein: So you wrapped it up in Michigan and headed off?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. At Teachers College.

Robert Klein: Do you remember initially reporting at Teachers College? Now you're meeting with the people who, like you, were going into Peace Corps. [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: You know, I don't have a real clear recollection. And I'm trying to think of whether we got in at night and went straight to the hotel that we stayed at and then the next day met at Teachers College. I think that's what happened. Because I remember meeting. No, that was later, that was when we were getting ready to go to country that I met a couple of my friends who I'd trained with, we then were on the same plane. One came from Anchorage, Alaska, and then stopped in Detroit. But no, I flew into Newark because I had a high school friend who met me there. And so I really, my first night. I got there a couple of days before I was supposed to so I could visit with my high school friend who was lived in the greater New York area. He worked on Wall Street.

Robert Klein: So your training group was about 120 people?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: 120 of us.

Robert Klein: And you were actually in training for Swahili?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That's true. All of us, of course, were being trained in Swahili. That was the common ground. And all being trained for education.

Robert Klein: Secondary education?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, secondary education.

Robert Klein: For Tanganyika and Kenya?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That's correct. It was Tanganyika when we started, but it was Tanzania by the time we left the training because the merger with Zanzibar in '64.

Robert Klein: Yeah. Did you, did you differentiate initially? [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, we were. When we were lumped together for language, we were lumped alphabetically. And so whatever this group will have this teacher and people are going to all three countries, that did not make a big difference.

Robert Klein: Describe the training [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, we'd have lectures on East African history. Cultural things. And language we had one hour, three days a week. So it was not. I mean, people knew that we were going to be teaching in English.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so it's not like knowing Swahili meant whether we survived or not. And had a lot of presentations on racism. And of course, this is '64 when the civil rights stuff was just beginning to evolve. But, you know, whether you see two people, two males walking down the street holding hands. How do you feel about that? This is their culture and it's just a sign of affection. And it has nothing to do with sexual identity or sexual identity.

Robert Klein: Yeah, that would be inaccurate.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Wow.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And then have British teachers come in and talk about, talking about the boot, or the boot in the bottom of the car versus the trunk.

Robert Klein: You actually had?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So we had Brits come in and teach.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And it was fun, it was just to get this cultural difference.

Robert Klein: But it was kind of generic?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. Where we were going made no difference. We were given the same education.

Robert Klein: Did that vary [inaudible]? Did you ever sense that [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: There certainly was that sense that they're going to prepare us for possibilities of being questioned why is your government doing these kinds of things? And of course, when I was in Kenya, I was confronted with, why are you going into Vietnam?

Robert Klein: During training, did anyone from Washington come?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, actually, talking about Vietnam, we had Roger Hilsman, who was the Assistant Secretary of State for Southeast Asian Affairs and was a West Point graduate. He was defending our policy in southeast Asia. And so, yes, we had people. And also we had people who wrote about the civil rights. Our chief psychologist in the deselection process, was it Dr. Gilbert, who was the chief psychologist at Nuremberg? We were just scared to death of him. I only heard him once and didn't really meet him personally. He presented when we had our first deselection. And like ten people got deselected, I mean, which was not a high number. I think out of 120 of us, 109 survived that process.

Robert Klein: Do you recall the deselection process? I mean, did they do a battery of tests?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Psychological tests?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Psychological and probably intelligence tests. Because at least I know when I was interviewed by my psychologist, he said I was kind of in the mid. I wasn't, I wasn't at the top or at the bottom. I don't know what that meant.

Robert Klein: You remember, do you recall the interview?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. Oh, yeah.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, at least the interview that I got was centered around, well, do you think you can survive two years without conveniences? Loneliness. You think you can cope? And I certainly felt, you know, I was a 29 year old male and so I was used to being single. And I thought, well, I can give it a try and certainly see, but I would think that I had that. And it is a big difference between being home and being alone.

Robert Klein: Were most of the group [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I think, I think all of us had a level of stress.

Robert Klein: And then when the big [inaudible], what was the reaction?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Shock. Disappointment. Not because they got deselected, but in the process, because one of the persons was very popular with the. We thought of all of us. And that's another thing I think plenty of us were tremendous people. I mean, I've never been involved, because then it became a family. Even though 120 of us got to know each other, at least to some degree. And it was just a talented group of people.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, that's true.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I didn't feel I was in any clique. I was never an outcast, but I never was inner-inner in any subgroup.

Robert Klein: Most of the group were just recent graduates?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. Most were 21, 22, 23.

Robert Klein: So in effect, you were older.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I know there was another person who was 26, another male who was 26, I was 29, but he also was a former veteran. So there were two of us who had been veterans, and there were three women who were older than I was. But I was the oldest male. Yes. Clara was 67.

Robert Klein: Yes. [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: So, uh, the language component was minimal.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, it was.

Robert Klein: [inaudible] What was your own feeling about deselection [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I certainly felt buoyed by making the first cut because I knew there would be a final cut. But, but, no, then my self confidence rose. I said, okay, I think this is the hardest part.

Robert Klein: Of the group [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, I would think, out of 120, maybe 20.

Robert Klein: That low?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: During training [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I should have said that initially, that the major focus really was on education. You know, how to present, how to teach.

Robert Klein: But you were a teacher already.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yeah, that's right. And, and we had R. Freeman Butts, he wrote, which I thought was a tremendous book on the history of American education give a presentation, and other well-known educators would be a guest lecture. They weren't there all the time, but they did.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We had, we had eight. I think we had two people come back who were teachers for East Africa, which was the program that preceded the Peace Corps. [inaudible]

Robert Klein: American?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: American. We did have a couple of British people as well as I talked about doing the language thing and the cultural thing. So, so we got a good exposure, I thought. And then we had a block of student teaching. I was assigned to Commerce High School, which is now I think a hall. Not Carnegie Hall, but where Leonard Bernstein was conductor.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But anyway. The old Commerce High School, it's now torn down. Anyway, it was, looked like it had possibilities, but having taught I was kind of bored. And so I fortunately was able to opt out and I worked for Leonard Covello who had been principal of Benjamin Franklin High School in Harlem, Puerto Rican, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico. So Nancy Shandling and I opted out because we've been teaching.

Robert Klein: And they simply said, you don't have to?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Right. They gave us permission. I think we had to find something before we could opt out.

Robert Klein: Okay. And what did you do instead?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, we helped organize a one day workshop for students at Benjamin Franklin High School, for people in the neighborhood, for career development. So a lot of my colleagues volunteered a half a day or a day to talk about what it was like to be whatever. And some were not really doing anything they were familiar with. Somebody didn't show up who was a beautician. But that was, that was also part of the growth, the development, was to do the unusual and be flexible.

Robert Klein: Was there, were there any [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: My Swahili teacher was from Kenya.

Robert Klein: Any significant others?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Other than an occasional person coming in and talking about cultural things. There was no permanent staff.

Robert Klein: And were there discussions or lectures about [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Maybe not quite in that category, but certainly their awareness was heightened on these things. But it wasn't a direct topic on it.

Robert Klein: Were there lectures about [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Not directly, because most of this was in '50, '52 to '54, '55. Since Kenyatta, of course, had been now at that time was the prime minister, was prime minister the first year. And when we got in country, he'd become president. So the government format was parliamentary.

Robert Klein: So how long did the training last?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: As I remember, September 20th to December 20th, and then we had time off to go back home for Christmas.

Robert Klein: Okay. Do you remember the final deselection?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That was less stressful it seemed like, and only two people or one person maybe at that point were deselected. So it wasn't like the mid.

Robert Klein: Had you been given an assignment? Did you know?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We didn't know where, that didn't happen until we got in country. We just knew that we're going to Kenya and we're going to teach in a secondary school.

Robert Klein: And what subject were you going to be teaching?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I was obviously thinking I was going to be involved in some kind of social studies as I had a master's in teaching social studies.

Robert Klein: But that didn't match up.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No.

Robert Klein: You had home leave?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Five days, six days?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Probably a whole week, as I remember maybe it was the 20th. Then because we landed in Nairobi on the 31st. And so, and we had a 12 hour layover in Madrid. SO we flew from New York to Madrid, to Athens. And then we had an hour refueling and that.

Robert Klein: It was a charter flight?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: And the seats were full with volunteers?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, the 120 of us plus the land development people going to Kenya.

Robert Klein: [inaudible] When you went home, any second thoughts?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, not for me. I mean, I was wound up. I was ready to go.

Robert Klein: Did your family give you a big send off?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, my family certainly gave me a tremendous send off.

Robert Klein: Were you in the local paper?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I was. Three Rivers is the city of 7,000, but I had my picture in the paper, selected for Kenya.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, it was a big deal.

Robert Klein: So now you arrived in the airport.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Of course, my dad and my mother drove me to Detroit and people got off the plane, and that's when I saw [inaudible]. And she was from Anchorage and so she was on the flight with me going from Detroit to New York. And then, of course, we all assembled in the airport in New York City to catch our one flight. And as I say, we had 12 hours in Madrid. Of course we're tired, but I tried to make every bit of that 12 hours. Go to the Prado.

Robert Klein: So you were on travel.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I was a traveler. And then we refueled in Athens. So I have been to Greece for an hour. But then, then as we were flying, the sun was coming up and I could look down and I could see where the White Nile and the Blue Nile came together. And we're flying over to Khartoum. And then I don't know how many hours later the landing in Nairobi.

Robert Klein: Was there a reception when you landed?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Governors?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. And of course, the planned settlement people spoke very good Swahili so they could sing the national anthem much better than we could. [tape break]

Robert Klein: [inaudible] Do you recall at any point was there a swearing in ceremony? [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I don't remember that. It's not to say it didn't happen.

Robert Klein: Tell me about your initial reaction to being in Kenya.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We were assigned to a hotel. I got sick for some reason, either because I hadn't been sleeping. I read a book a friend of mine, Neil Lampert, who was one of my professors at Western Michigan, gave me a book. Departing. And I read that book in its entirety on this flight. So I was really wound up. So probably from the lack of sleep, my body finally caved in and had got a tremendous cold. Finally, Dr. Campbell came up and gave me a shot or something because I was kind of throwing up.

Robert Klein: So the first couple of days [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And it was at that time that the group met Tom Mboya and really, really high powered people, who I missed. I missed that part of it.

Robert Klein: When you got to Nairobi as a group [inaudible] other two continue on?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, yes, yes. The Kenyan group stayed in Nairobi and the Uganda group, I don't know how they got to Uganda. They, we split.

Robert Klein: So all of a sudden, now the groups is down to about 40, 50 people?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Probably 35. 40 originally. Probably someone of those people [inaudible].

Robert Klein: What was your initial reaction then after that?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But Nairobi certainly was not bush. Major city. So, so that, I mean, the shock wasn't like if you landed in [inaudible]. It was a major city and hearing the different languages, but most people spoke, everyone we encountered spoke English.

Robert Klein: So it was kind of an easy transition?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, it was. Yeah. And then people were. Met you. Met the Peace Corps Director Tom Kunde. And then the assignments were given. And so then we have an allotment of money to go buy bedding, pots, and whatever, whatever we need.

Robert Klein: Did you try your Swahili at all the first few?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Some. But I have to admit, I was not terribly fluent. Didn't push it.

Robert Klein: Talk about your time. At any point do you recall [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I'm sure that that happened and I didn't have any preference. I just said, send me, again like my application, send me wherever you want. I'm open to that.

Robert Klein: So within the group, I mean, there wasn't any sort of [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: At least I didn't have that sense. I mean, I didn't. I really liked everybody and I thought I could work with anybody. And I was assigned with Steve Poland to work in a Harambee school.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, what was it? Freedom. And it was one of the new schools just being opened. And so I thought this is going to be a neat experience, Steve and I got along well. And then when we got on the train to go to Kisumu, because the Harambee school was south of Kisumu. But when I got off the train, I had, overnight, been reassigned by the Ministry of Education and ended up going to Maseno, which was about 25 miles north of Kisumu. So Steve and I got separated at that point in time.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, that happened just as we were there and assignments were read out. And Breyfogle, you've been reassigned to.

Robert Klein: This was before?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, we were in Kisumu at the train depot at that time.

Robert Klein: And somebody came?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And said, you're going to Maseno.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: From the Ministry of Education.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I was, I had to readjust. And plus the fact Steve and I bought stuff together. And so we had to kind of look at what, what we could separate. So he took the pots and pans because I figured I could take the, I had my blanket and sheets and those things because that stuff you, of course, had your own. That was easy.

Robert Klein: So how did you get to Maseno?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Somebody from Maseno, one of the teachers, one of the English teachers, who had a car, was asked to come down and pick me up.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: So now you're going off [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, I do. And that was. The Brit, who was the geography teacher, who I ended up living with during this time, was very welcoming. They made me feel very accepted. Just looking at the scenery, it was beautiful. Your first real glimpse of the African countryside, or at least for me. I thought it was beautiful.

Robert Klein: There was a good road there?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I guess it was.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, at that point in time, it was, as I remember, it was tarmac. But part of it was relatively smooth ride.

Robert Klein: Did the Brit try to fill you in on the school and what to expect?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Just in general terms. This is a school founded in 1907, well-established. The students are good students. You know, they're the cream of the crop of the country.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, it was not.

Robert Klein: Do you have any idea why [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: You know, I could, I could say probably because I had experience and also a masters degree.

Robert Klein: But no one ever [inaudible]? So you arrived at the school.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: What were your living arrangements?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. I was assigned to live with the geography teacher at least for the interim. Uh, the house that I lived in that first two weeks, because later I was going to be assigned to another house. Certainly more than adequate, but a much older house than some of the newer houses. In fact, they were constructing three new houses on the other side, of the western side of the compound. But that was a little house with two bedrooms. So I had my own bedroom. Living room, dining room, little kitchen.

Robert Klein: Running water?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Running water.

Robert Klein: Electricity?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Electricity at night. It was a generator.

Robert Klein: A steward or servant?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: This person happened to have a, uh, houseboy is the term, which is very colonial.

Robert Klein: Were you beginning to feel [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, that was a struggle because I was really looking at the mud hut impoverishment of being a person living on my own, not being dependent on other people. But I have to admit that then over a period of time, it took me about a month to get used to the idea of having, quote, a houseboy. We realized really how important this was for that person. I mean, it's an interesting part of the Kenyan economy. So this person then offered me $12 month to do your laundry, mow your yard, clean your house. And that was his livelihood.

Robert Klein: Do you remember [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, but there was.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Right. I mean, the expectation I thought was.

Robert Klein: Your own.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Your own, yeah.

Robert Klein: I mean, your own expectation [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, we would take care of ourselves.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It was not bad at all. And certainly when we got the lay of the land and realized what was really expected, for the economic reasons and because of time. We were just horrendously busy once the students came that we didn't have time to mow the yard. I had, I had snakes in my yard.

Robert Klein: Describe the school. This was not a well-off school.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, this was an old school. 1907.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The housing, particularly for the European staff, was really very, very comfortable. For the African staff too. They had the older homes. But still the fact was the home that I lived in initially became an African staff person's home. But the new homes obviously were in colonial style and went to the Brits. And half the staff were British and half the staff were Africans. I was the only American.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I think there are 60 or 70 even.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We had, we had forms 1 through 6, yes.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The headmaster, of course, was there for many years. His father happened to have been the bishop of Uganda. So he was maybe born in England, but had lived much of his life in East Africa. And his wife, Cicely, was the daughter of a bishop in India. I mean, so in other words, she was a colonial child as well.

Robert Klein: And I don't know [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yeah. But none of my British colleagues opted for that. They maintained the British passport.

Robert Klein: But how many of the British [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I think all were British.

Robert Klein: Okay, so they come out just to teach.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We had one missionary probably. A young wife, two children. And the others were more my age, I mean, my age being 29, I was. And so the physics teacher, the chemistry teacher, and the geography teacher were about my age.

Robert Klein: Was this a church run school?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It was an Anglican school, British church, Church of England. In fact, in Maseno there's a cathedral. The chapel that we had on campus, I realize now, since I'm now an Episcopalian, sometimes we pray for the Diocese of the Maseno.

Robert Klein: And but you still got the support in that system.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, it was, it was a government, by that time it truly was, the government took control of it. But it certainly, we taught religion. There was a Cambridge exam, the students took an exam like in November of their fourth year and their sixth year. And those exams were bundled up and sent to Cambridge.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The Kenyan staff were teacher trained. In other words, they had gone through a certain level of education.

Robert Klein: Not university?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Not university. We did have later on have a graduate. And these, the African teachers basically taught forms 1 and 2, the lower forms, math, whatever the subject matter. And the Brits taught the higher levels. But later on when there wasn't a graduate, he was teaching.

Robert Klein: Was the school [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It was initially and then when the physics teacher married an American in my second year, she then joined the staff.

Robert Klein: What about the student body?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The student body was all male.

Robert Klein: It was a boarding school?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, it was. There were 10 dormitories.

Robert Klein: Now, well, let's talk about [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The headmaster, Bertram Bower, a delightful person. He later retired to [inaudible] came to an. After I went and got back and got married, I spent an evening with Bertram [inaudible]. But anyway, Bertram assigned me forms 1 math, religion. And form 3 history. So I was out of my head in the math and religion because I certainly was not steeped in the religion. And the math, I could do the basic math, but I was just barely a day ahead of the students. But then, because of the detached retina from one of the English teachers, this was the Hungarian born American who had an Australian wife. And then when he had the detached retina and had to go back to New York and get that taken care of, his wife taught his classes. But then she left to go to New York. And then that the big shift, that I got all forms 3 and 4 history and English, forms 5 [inaudible].

Robert Klein: But eventually [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I had a syllabus but that meant that I really had to do a lot of boning up to even be ahead of the students.

Robert Klein: Same things with the math?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Same thing with the math that I had.

Robert Klein: Did you feel [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I mean, I had had high school algebra and geometry, advanced algebra and solid geometry, and that was the extent of my math.

Robert Klein: Given the fact that this is such a [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I had those feelings. But overall, I thought. I mean, even though I thought I was out of depth in the math and religious studies, that shifted probably within six weeks. Yeah, the shift was not even a full semester. But it was during this time the results came out from the Cambridge exams from the year before. And it was the worst in the school system. And the students got very upset and went on strike.

Robert Klein: When was this?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It was in my first semester. And the students were on strike and not willing to participate in doing their garden work.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We haven't even gotten that far yet. We had a meeting with the principal. The headmaster got permission from the Ministry of Education to send the students home. So the students were sent home for about a week. But this school strike became a national issue since Maseno was a very prominent school. Vice President Oginga Odinga and financial minister Tom Mboya had gone to school there. So Parliament was talking about this strike in Maseno and blaming it on the Peace Corps for not being prepared to teach. And of course, I really was not prepared to teach some of the subjects I had been teaching.

Robert Klein: Were these, they must have been politically motivated attacks?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: So there was some political division [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Of course there was. If you read Time magazine, if you had read Time magazine, Oginga Odinga, of course, was kind of considered pro-communist. He was a Luo, a member of the Luo tribe. Two thirds of our students were Luos. And so there might have been that. Certainly the students were truly upset with the results.

Robert Klein: I mean, [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I mean, I'm assuming there were some student leaders. I wasn't.

Robert Klein: So you a very short time [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, it gave me time to prepare. It helped me get caught up.

Robert Klein: During this period, is that when your schedule changed?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: My schedule had changed before that.

Robert Klein: Okay, so now you're history.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Right, which I felt far more comfortable with.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, I was. Or at least, we're going to sit the exam the years after.

Robert Klein: [inaudible] you'll be out of here before [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That's true.

Robert Klein: Did you feel [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, certainly. In other words, the students made it very clear to me that I was there to teach them English or history. And the history, of course, is crazy. It was British Empire and Commonwealth history.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, they were very, very clear about it. You're here to teach us. We need to take this exam. And our lives, our future hinges on how we do on this exam.

Robert Klein: I mean, did they say that to you?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. No, that was very clear. Yes.

Robert Klein: How does, uh, Kenyan English is obviously a little bit.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Kind of the King's English.

Robert Klein: Was that an adjustment?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The joke was, as I got settled in, was the status symbol was to get an American accent rather than a British accent. So the Brits would tease me. And African students weren't the ones that really said this.

Robert Klein: Well, did any of your students [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, they. No. But no, they, they wanted to be up to speed. And when we're teaching some of the literature, of course, a lot of it was British literature like Dickens, Orwell. But anyway, if there happened to have been an American author, of course they could see the slight difference in the language.

Robert Klein: So the strike is over [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The strike took place probably two thirds of the way through my first semester. And so I finished that first semester and then I had a month off. And, well, in Kenya, the schools had three months off. You'd go to school like from January, mid-January to April. And have mid-April to mid-May off. In school from mid-May to mid-August. Off mid-August to mid-September. Teaching from mid- September to, say, right up to Christmas or 20th. And then have that off until mid-January.

Robert Klein: Okay, so [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: What was your sense of the interaction with the professional [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: There certainly was a camaraderie. But it wasn't the same camaraderie that I had with Americans. It still was, I don't like the word colonial, but there certainly was that angle that the British were superior and better educated. I mean, the truth is there was racism.

Robert Klein: So where did you fit in [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I didn't differentiate. But the African staff also were married and had families, which made it different socially from me than with my British friends who were single who could.

Robert Klein: So [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Actually, most of the socialization was like in the teachers' lounge at coffee break. Like 10:00 to 10:30 in the morning or whatever the times were. And that's where the socialization was, because then once people went back to their homes, they had other obligations too.

Robert Klein: Do you recall if any of the [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, no, no. We would have dinner exchanges and I would be invited to their homes. I had a problem because the fact that I, with three other British, although I later ended up having a home of my own, I ate with three other British. And so for me then to invite an African family was kind of problematic.

Robert Klein: So you didn't do it?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I didn't do it. I mean, I did do it with a couple of people, but not, not with all the staff.

Robert Klein: So were there instances where the three Brits, you [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, that did happen. It's like, I didn't feel terribly uncomfortable, but I felt some discomfort, although only a little bit.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: One made it clear to me that was not the style.

Robert Klein: But this again was your [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, actually, actually, by that time I had been assigned a home. And there were three new homes that had been completed and the geography teacher had a home by himself, and then the chemistry and physics teacher shared a home. And then the biology teacher, his wife, with two children, had the other home. And so we ate in the home where the physics and the chemistry teacher roomed together. But we split the wages of the cook four ways.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Kisumu, a major seaport in west Kenya was about 17 miles away, and that was very accessible and a lot of times somebody would be going to Kisumu so I could go in and shop. See my friend Sue Boardman, who taught biology at one of the schools.

Robert Klein: But you would always drive down? [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Rarely. I could go out and hitchhike, that was easy too. I could just go out and stick my thumb out and catch a ride with somebody else who was coming down from Butere or.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I have to admit, I was really busy and so I didn't dwell on the unusual stuff so much. I really was trying to prepare and also grade papers because I really thought that students had to learn how to read and write English well. So I took that responsibility seriously. And I thought that I maybe wasn't the best teacher, but I was adequate.

Robert Klein: What were your other responsibilities?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I was the basketball coach, I introduced basketball, in fact even helped carve out, chopped. I didn't do the chopping, but carved out a place where we made a basketball court. And our first game was against a school that had been playing basketball for quite a while and we lost 64-8. We scored one basket each quarter. And I was the scout master. And we had a newspaper that was published, certainly once a semester, and I was responsible for that. And I had the yearbook, which was published at the end of each year.

Robert Klein: Were these assigned or were they volunteer?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, they were assigned by the headmaster. And then one month out of the year, one month out of the semester, we would have chapel duty. I wasn't terribly steeped in the Bible so sometimes I would read [inaudible]. And that was, that was not [inaudible] headmaster who was a missionary.

Robert Klein: So you were supposed to get up in front of?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Three hundred students. It would be a ten or 15 minute inspirational, that's probably what we'd call it today. [tape break]

Robert Klein: We were talking about [inaudible]. During your first year, how often did you go away from the school?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Actually, I didn't go away a lot. I enjoyed the school. I enjoyed the students. I enjoyed the Brits, I enjoyed the African staff. So I didn't feel a great need.

Robert Klein: You didn't feel [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I felt neutral. I mean, I felt comfortable with the African staff. And I had a lot of respect for both. The teachers were very competent and very bright.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, they were teachers from East Africa with the exception of the headmaster, of course, who came out of the Anglican Church. And then the biology teacher also was Anglican missionary. And then there was another missionary who was on leave. So there were three missionaries still left over from the old colonial days.

Robert Klein: Were there any [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, the only, the only one was when [inaudible]. Students were very considerate, thoughtful, thankful, appreciative, respectful.

Robert Klein: What was the size of the class?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Thirty students in a class, at least in forms 3 and 4. And they did their homework. If they had questions, they would say, I don't understand, can you explain? Just tremendous respect. Teachers were really in an elevated position at that time.

Robert Klein: [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It was certainly adequately staffed. Probably an old country schoolhouse with the description of the old wooden desks, a row of 30, whatever. Six rows with five desks each. And there was a blackboard, chalk. And no electricity. I mean, there was electricity, but at night. But buildings kind of latched, you know, where you had daylight, but then you'd close it down at night to not let the mosquitos in and keep the lights on.

Robert Klein: And so the students had textbooks. Do they work out of exercise books?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. What we would, when we would take an exam. Blue books I think is what we called them. And that's, that's basically what they had.

Robert Klein: So during the first year [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The doctor? Maybe. I mean, I didn't have a lot of visitors. I don't know why that was. You know, whether because I was surviving and things seemingly were going okay or what. I don't know. I certainly knew that I was supported and if I needed someone, I could. We did have a phone.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I knew that folks were accessible.

Robert Klein: Yeah. And so you didn't [inaudible].

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I did not. In fact, I remember, I remember the physics and chemistry teacher had a motorcycle. BMW, I think. And they taught me how to ride it. Wednesdays we didn't teach in the afternoon. And he said, why don't you go over to whatever, 20 or 30 miles away there was a Peace Corps volunteer. He said, take the bike. I took the darn thing over and skidded. Took a lot of skin off and it was a stupid thing for me to do, not being very competent. So anyway, I got the bike up to Majengo and then somebody, the government, a Land Rover, came by and took me back to the school. It took three baths to wash the stone grit out. And then I took a bottle of rubbing alcohol.

And the nurse when she discovered what had happened, she realized I'd done the right thing, but was amazed that I could tolerate that much pain because I was, I had a lot of spots where I poured the alcohol.

Robert Klein: The nurse at school?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yeah, the nurse at school, the biology teacher's wife was a nurse. And then she got some salve for me and some gauze. And then finally, about a week later, a Peace Corps doctor came out.

Robert Klein: Wasn't there a policy [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: There probably was.

Robert Klein: [inaudible] As you're coming to the end of the first year, what was your sense of [inaudible]?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I did feel good about, or at least I thought I was doing a good job of teaching. That I felt comfortable with.

Robert Klein: But you didn't get feedback from anyone else? [inaudible]

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, nobody on staff came to observe my teaching.

Robert Klein: Did you get any feedback in any way?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: In kind of a roundabout way. I mean, they didn't come right out say you're doing a great job. But they appreciated the fact that they were learning English or learning British Empire history, which I thought was an interesting twist.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Read about the American Revolution as to how it's written by the Brits and, you know, the other, the basketball, yearbook, the newspaper, you know, the outside activities were going well and the students were seemingly enjoying those activities, which I was involved in.

Robert Klein: Did you have much informal contact with the students?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I had a dormitory.

Robert Klein: Oh, you did? Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so certainly two or three times a week I would wander over in the evening just to see how they were doing and if there's anything that they needed before. And then of course, I had ten banana trees in the yard. So when bananas get ripe, you've got arms of bananas and I'd give them to all ten dorms. I just, I wouldn't give them to my dorm.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The Africans appreciated the extra food.

Robert Klein: Did the students question you about America? And do you have any sense of what their perception was of you as a Peace Corps volunteer? Did they distinguish you from the Brits?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, certainly when we got into Vietnam that became an issue for the Kenyan students.

Robert Klein: This is during your second year, isn't it?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: During my second year, yes. 1966.

Robert Klein: How'd it become an issue?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, the students just couldn't figure out what in the world was America doing in this? I mean, they saw it as a form of colonialism, I mean, which from their perspective is absolutely right.

Robert Klein: Right, right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And they thought it was dead wrong. And then, of course, the Congo thing was going on too.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And they just thought the American government was intervening inappropriately.

Robert Klein: Where did, I mean, did you sit down in the dorm and say, let's talk about Vietnam? Or did it come up in class?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: A lot of times it would come up when I'd have time. We'd discussed the material that we covered for that day and have an extra 10 minutes.

Robert Klein: In class?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: In class, yeah. And so I'd say, is there anything you want to talk about?

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And they'd say, yeah, what in the world are you folks doing in the Congo or? I don't remember what it was that happened at the time.

Robert Klein: Yeah. I assume their language is a little bit more formal than, what are you folks doing in?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And there certainly was a level of politeness.

Robert Klein: Yeah. So that, you never had a strong expression of anti- Americanism?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No.

Robert Klein: Or anything directed personally against you?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No.

Robert Klein: In those settings, did you feel called on to try to defend America, or how did you, whatever your own feelings about the Vietnam War?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I was, I was raised in a very conservative political family, and my basic source of information was Time magazine. And Time magazine supported the war so I supported the war in Vietnam. And so I defended American policy in Vietnam. Talked about the domino theory and the spread of communism.

Robert Klein: Right. And your students bought it?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No! They understood my point of view.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And they respected my being able to defend it, but they still didn't agree with it.

Robert Klein: Yeah. Well, let's jump. There must have been somewhere a long break between first and second year.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, there are these months between.

Robert Klein: Oh, that's right. Yeah. What did you do with the free time? Initially, I suppose you used it to prepare for teaching.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I also traveled, but I would find the Peace Corps said you have 30 days of vacation here.

Robert Klein: Right. Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But find a project.

Robert Klein: Ah, yeah. Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So I had a project with the land settlement people. That's where I met Mike Davis and Jim Cloutier, I think.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And they were living in this house where Robert Ruark either lived or, because there were bullet holes in the wall from where this particular murder took place, where the Brits killed the cook or.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: In Uhuru.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so I'm, I'm getting exposed to language and different experience.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so I felt very enriched by having that mixture of both working in projects when I was traveling.

Robert Klein: What was the project?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I'm even blocking on what I was doing, except for I was traveling with these guys who spoke fluent Swahili and they were doing something.

Robert Klein: Now they tended to be based on a land settlement area?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes, they were.

Robert Klein: And their role was kind of complicated. It could have been, was it with elementary school kids or?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I thought they were working with adults.

Robert Klein: No, I mean, they were. But did you come in and sort of?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, I was working with them. I was just kind.

Robert Klein: Just following them.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Tagging along.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I mean, that particular project was, we laughed about it being a project.

Robert Klein: Yeah. That's, I mean, two interesting guys to spend time with. Again, I think I said going into the second year, you begin, you know that you're only going to be there another couple of semesters. Did you think in terms of what am I going to accomplish before I leave? Or you just knew that your teaching was it?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I have to admit, I stayed focused on the teaching part of it.

Robert Klein: Mm hmm.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And my goal was for the students. My accomplishment was through the students accomplishing success.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: By taking the Cambridge exam and doing well so they could go on to further education or some kind of career development.

Robert Klein: You'd been pretty adventurous in your life up to joining the Peace Corps. While you're in Kenya, I mean, you're under very comfortable circumstance. Were you at all tempted to try to reach out and learn more about the real Kenya? I mean, traditional culture of the Luo or village life or get a student to invite you to his village?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I didn't get invited by any students, but I did get invited by a family that lived off the compound. And I don't know if that person's connection with the school other than he'd graduated from the school. But he worked like for the Agriculture Department.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I had a couple of times where he would invite me out to dinner and he had twin daughters who were of marriage age.

Robert Klein: Oh. Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: If he probably only had one daughter, I might have had a different outlook. But now I'm in a dilemma here. I don't want to offend anybody. I mean, I'm maybe jesting or misreading but. I enjoyed that contact, but I didn't pursue it beyond just the, the dinners and the camaraderie. I did try to, it only lasted for about a month because it really became time, terribly time consuming. I went out to an elementary school and tried one hour a week and it took me like an hour to get there. And I tried to teach English, but that then that was like on my Wednesday afternoon that I had off. So I only did that probably for six or seven times, maybe four.

Robert Klein: How did, how did that get set up?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I was aware of the school.

Robert Klein: How?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Because one of the wives of one of the Africans taught in that school.

Robert Klein: Ah, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so she said, gee, if you come out to the school and do this, this would be tremendous.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So it was through her that I knew of the school. When I said an hours, it was probably only a half an hour walk, but an hour, you know, half an hour each way.

Robert Klein: So you'd walk out to the school.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Sure. And it was, it was nice, but it was, became very time consuming from what I really was trying to stay focused on.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But I didn't, I didn't make a lot of inroads in the area with the African population.

Robert Klein: And that was a Luo, a traditional group?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yeah, but there was the Abaluyia, which was a Bantu versus a Nilotic language.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: My, my gardener happened to be a Luo, uh, Abaluyia. And I remember he lost the child through the childbirth process. And so I knew that they would have celebrations because every so often I could hear in the nighttime this wailing. And so I made sure that he had sufficient money to, for the burial and for.

Robert Klein: Right. You didn't you didn't try to improve your Swahili, did you?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I did not.

Robert Klein: Okay. That's not an accusation. It's just that.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I'm very, very honest about it.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Interesting, though. I made sure that I spoke with my gardener.

Robert Klein: Mm hmm.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And he did something one day. It usually rained, if it rained, it rained at 4:00 or 4:30 in the afternoon. The rains were very predictable. One day the clouds came up about 11:30 in the morning and he came trotting up with my raincoat. And these British people said, how did you train him to do that? And I said, I didn't. It's just the fact that he appreciates me and I appreciate him and he's taking care of me.

Robert Klein: In the second year, had the faculty changed much? Had people come, people go?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: As I mentioned, the physics teacher married an American TEA teacher. And so then she taught some of the English.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so that was, so then the chemistry teacher. He had worked with a physics teacher, but he moved out or went back to England, because obviously the wife took his place in that household. That's still where we ate dinner. I mean, I still ate dinner with them, but there was no, there wasn't a major shift.

Robert Klein: And your health generally was okay after the initial bout you had when you arrived, generally good?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I maintained very good health.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Except for I had my bottom, I had my wisdom teeth pulled.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Right just before I was ready to get out because I wanted to have it done at government expense because I had a 90 degree root on both sides.

Robert Klein: Yeah. And that was done in Nairobi?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. No, no, no. Kisumu.

Robert Klein: In Kisumu? Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But when the dentist got to the bottoms. He popped the tops, he just popped out and I was able to play tennis. But when the bottoms were done, he said, you're going to be sick for four days. And I thought that guy had his foot on my jaw while he was pulling those teeth.

Robert Klein: Yeah, yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And he was wanting to drive me back up to the compound. I said, no, I could hitchhike, which I did. And I also had been invited over to dinner to a teacher's college, and I said, I'm really sorry, but I just had my wisdom teeth pulled. And I said, I don't think I'm going to be feeling well in a couple of hours. And so I ate soup and easy things to eat. And they took me home, a delightful couple from Winnipeg, and sure enough, I was sick for four days. This was on Wednesday afternoon, and the afternoon we had off I had my teeth pulled.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So I crawled over to the classroom and wrote the assignments on the board, said sick, and then went back over Friday and Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, I was back to normal. But, boy, those four days were terrible. Otherwise, no, I was not sick.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But I had consistently lost 25 pounds over a period of time. So I weighed 125 pounds. And I understand losing 25 pounds for a male is not abnormal in the tropical climate.

Robert Klein: Right. Right. It's, uh. At the end, between the first and second year, was there a conference of the group? Were you called together? A mid-term conference it would have been called, I think.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: You know, we might have. By that time maybe you're gone?

Robert Klein: I think so. I was out of Kenya.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And we might have had not anything quite that formal.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We had a formal get together down at Mombasa or Malindi.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: When we were ready to be discharged, probably.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Four weeks before we got discharged.

Robert Klein: Right. Right. And that was the termination conference?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Thank you, that's the term I'm trying to fish for.

Robert Klein: Yeah. And so the whole group gathered in Malindi.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Which is easy to take. It's a beachy resort.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh yeah, it was plush.

Robert Klein: I gather during the two years you did not have much contact with other volunteers?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Sporadically.

Robert Klein: Yeah. I mean, your real focus tended to, stayed within the school community.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: So now you come back and two years are over and you suddenly.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, with the exception when we'd have those month periods. Like one time I went to Nairobi and spent. The Presbyterian Church had sent a shipload of books to Kenya. So one of the projects was to support, to separate these books out.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And then try to catalog them in some way, shape or form. And then schools would be getting these books. And so that was one of the projects that I did.

Robert Klein: Where did you stay when you were in Nairobi?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: There was, there was a hotel that was not terribly expensive. It was within a block or two of the Peace Corps office.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so that was within my budget.

Robert Klein: Now, you were being paid a living allowance by the Peace Corps?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Was that, did that tend to be adequate?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Oh, I, I. It would not have been enough to support a vehicle, but it was enough for me to pay for a fourth of a cook's wage, to pay for a gardener. And to save enough money to buy a Pentax camera and wide angle lens and photo lens and tripod.

Robert Klein: You were specifically forbidden from owning a vehicle?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So, so the $100 a month I got, and the $10 for my rent.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The $110 I got, I probably was able to save 30 to 40 percent of that.

Robert Klein: And was that deposited to your account in Maseno?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I think that's how it works. Yeah.

Robert Klein: All right. Let's jump back to the termination conference. And your, the group gathers now, I guess for the first time in the two years?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It might have really been in that break between.

Robert Klein: Well, yeah, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Semesters, because I don't think, we didn't teach for that three or four days.

Robert Klein: Right. Right. Okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It was, it was in preparation for us to be prepared for culture shock going back to the United States.

Robert Klein: How was that played out? I mean.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I'm glad, I mean, it was, it was nice to see the people again, you know, the camaraderie and the friendships that we had in Teachers College, Columbia.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And then plus the friendships that we had that were people that were in proximity. Like Sue Boardman for me.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Sue I saw fairly frequently.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That was delightful in that, as you mentioned, that Malindi was plush and probably not terribly expensive in those days, but seeing the ocean and the flowers were just magnificent.

Robert Klein: The settlement group wasn't there at the same time, was it?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No. They were obviously having their conference at a different time, maybe at the same place, but different times. Just the teachers.

Robert Klein: And at that point you at all tempted to extend for a third year?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: At that time also they, not necessarily in Kenya, but in Micronesia, they said you can spend a year in Micronesia.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I was tempted to do that. But I was 31.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I was saying, you know, I could, I could be an adolescent all my life, live in this abnormal environment.

Robert Klein: You had a sense that this was not the way the world really was.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But I was grateful for that conference in preparation of serious culture shock when you get back to the United States because from '64 to '66 with the Vietnam, the social uprisings.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: A lot of change.

Robert Klein: Was it run in small groups?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes. They're kind of like a big talk and then you split off.

Robert Klein: Were there facilitators for each group?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: And was it, did they tend to be lively exchanges or were people simply impatient and say, you know, I don't need to hear that, let me?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: No, I, at least I thought people were very receptive to what was being said in preparation for what life was going to be like.

Robert Klein: Had many of the group terminated early? I mean, I don't know, you were 35 to begin.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I'm only aware of two people quitting in midstream.

Robert Klein: So it was still 30 some people.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: Do you remember if there was discussion with the young men about the possibility of facing the draft when they came home? Because things had changed and the war had become a little more intense by then.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It certainly was mentioned. I mean, the war was heating up, had heated up.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And that, you know, you. Whatever draft deferment you had before, you might not have.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

For the experience and now being with the group, will you still in your sensitivities essentially a Republican? Had you shifted or drifted at all?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I certainly. Let me just talk about an experience that I had.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I basically am a very prompt, punctual person, and only once in my two years was I late for class. And I don't know, that's five or 10 minutes late.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Because, you know, after 10 minutes, the students technically could go home. Go back to their room. And I came into class one morning late, six, seven, eight minutes or whatever it was, and the students said somebody was looking for you. And I was stunned. I mean, because nobody had ever checked on me. So I said, you know, was it Mr. Bowers, who is the headmaster? No, it wasn't. Mr. Smith, the chemistry teacher? No. Mr. Jenkins, the physics teacher? So I went down the European teachers. I was making an assumption it was a Caucasian male, and they said no all the way down. So I said, gee. And I was thinking, was it somebody from Peace Corps office? And that was very unusual. I mean, nobody ever came at 7:00 in the morning.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Because usually if they had, they would have spent the night with me.

Robert Klein: Yeah, yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Anyway, so I said, well, describe him. And they said, well, white skin, straight hair. And in unison, the 30 students said, all you white people look alike. And that, that was like a PhD for me, all of a sudden. Then the students said, what are you laughing at? And I said, well, if you came to the United States and you hear white people talk about Black people. And then they got offended.

Robert Klein: Uh huh.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Said we don't look alike. We look, we're different.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So anyway, I certainly as far as race, culture, I certainly had grown tremendously.

Robert Klein: Mm hmm.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Politically, I still identified with the Republican party.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: My, I had left Flint and my congressman going back to Flint was Don Riegle.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And Don was a Republican at that time.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: In his fourth term in the House, he switched to be a Democrat because of Vietnam, and then served a fifth term as a Democrat. Fifth term in Congress, but as a Democrat. And then, of course, he ran for the U.S. Senate and won to replace Phil Hart. And of course, Senator Hart died even before the term was over. And finally Riegle became my senator for 18 years. He became a senator for 18 years. And I knew Mark Hatfield a little bit. So there are some decent Republicans still on the scope.

Robert Klein: But sitting in the termination conference or being near the end of your service, were you would at all reflective about how you had changed or what you'd gone through or what it all meant to you?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: It probably hadn't crystallized.

Robert Klein: Yeah, okay.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But certainly the seeds had been planted.

Robert Klein: At that point then, what was your plan? I mean, obviously you were leaving Kenya in a fairly short time.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And, you know, it was funny. I was still flying by the seat of my pants and I knew that I'd have this air ticket to Detroit, and so did I want to get home for Christmas time. And I'd get discharged like on the 10th of December and do those whirlwind tours through the European capitals and.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Get to, get to Detroit and then to Three Rivers. And finally, in the process I looked at the map and I sort of said, I could go to Europe, I could go to Asia. It's far different. So I finally sat down and cashed in my air ticket to Detroit and made it from Nairobi to San Francisco with 26 stops on it.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But I still wasn't sure what I was going to do, whether I was going to do a whirlwind thing and try to be a name dropper. [tape break] Boarding the plane in Nairobi, Walter Brigadier knew this very attractive British lady who was the sister of his headmaster, and she was going to do a three week tour or so in Ethiopia. And Walter was going on up to Cairo. So I traveled with this lady for three, three weeks until Christmas had long passed.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And she then went on to, she was married.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: You might not believe it, but I hardly didn't even hold hands with her in the three weeks. It's just, we were traveling companions and she'd studied Ethiopia, and so I learned a lot about it. And that's where I met, stayed at John Coyne's house.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so after that three weeks, I knew what I was going to do. I was really going to make good use of those 26 stops. And time was not of the essence.

Robert Klein: Yeah. So you're still avoiding readjustment or coming back. Well, you finally got back to San Francisco.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: But you'd been on the road for quite a while.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Seven and a half months.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Or seven months, because I still then, it took me about a week to get to Three Rivers, Michigan.

Robert Klein: Right. So the return culture shock must have been sort of diffuse, I mean, because you.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, in Hawaii, of course, all of a sudden I stayed at the Y, YMCA, and all these vets were on R&R from Vietnam.

Robert Klein: Ah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And the music, the loud music. I mean, it was just a cacophony. But two people from Three Rivers, Michigan, lived in.

Robert Klein: Hawaii?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Honolulu. And so I had dinner with them. I had dinner with one couple, and then they took me over the other couple because I didn't know them. And so I had a more gradual coming in, but I was in shocked in Honolulu.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay. Because of the military, because of the music, because of the mix?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: All of the above.

Robert Klein: Okay. You finally get your, work your way back to Three Rivers.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Yes.

Robert Klein: And you still face the question.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I.

Robert Klein: While you were in Kenya, had you done anything to find out about programs or do any job search?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I did not.

Robert Klein: Did you ever consider trying to go to work for the Peace Corps? Was there any, ever any contact about that?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: You know, it's funny and that, because of my language not being really a good Peace Corps volunteer and not learning the language.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I really had not really thought that I would make a good staff member. You know, I kind of deselected myself from going further.

Robert Klein: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, now you're back.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I really had, other than maybe thinking of going back and teaching in Flint, Michigan, I had not given serious thought about horrendous changes. But I did, when I got back to Three Rivers, I thought, well, I want to try the political stuff. And so I did hitchhike to Washington. And spent ten days in Washington seeing Don Riegle and Bill Steiger, who was a Republican from Oshkosh, Wisconsin, who I knew.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Because he was had young Republicans in Oshkosh, but nobody had an opening for me. Nobody was willing to extend one. So I went back to Three Rivers.

Robert Klein: You had readjustment allowance, I think, which was a, you know.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But I'd spent that on my trip.

Robert Klein: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so I got to Flint, saw my old boss, and this is the Friday before Labor Day. He said, Russ, do you have a job? And I said, I've been offered a job up in Midland to teach junior high school social studies. Had a cousin who lived in Midland, and I was borrowing his car to come to Flint. I mean, he had two cars, so I had his Volkswagen. And Les Erenbright said, well, how about teaching junior high school in PCP, the program that I worked in, personalized curriculum program? Potential drop outs.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I said okay. So I called Midland and said I'm not coming. So I went to lunch and I came back and Mr. Erenbright said, geez, I just changed you and you're going to be a counselor at a different junior high school just across the street here.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I said, how did you do that? I don't have a degree in counseling guidance. He said, you have a master's degree.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And in junior high school, that's all you need. You don't have that counseling guidance degree.

Robert Klein: Uh huh.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So I went back to return the car back to my cousin. I think that's right. Unless he let me have the car. But I went to Three Rivers and got my stuff enough that I could live on. Went to Flint, got an apartment, and walked into this junior high school. The day after Labor Day was a teacher conference.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And the principal, who I had known, Howard Auer played football with Jerry Ford at Michigan, later played for the Chicago Bears. And Howard had been my vice principal at Flint Central before I went to the Peace Corps.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Got promoted as principal. And Howard said, Russ, what are you doing? I said, I'm going to be one of your counselors. What? And another fellow, Horance Brown, also was there. And he got introduced and said, what are you doing here? Well, I'm assigned also like Russ to be a counselor. And we ended up monitoring the cafeteria. That was our primary thrust. 1,350 students. There are five of us assigned to this duty.

Robert Klein: Wow.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The principal was very grateful to have these two warm bodies to help.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Right in front of the cafeteria.

Robert Klein: Yeah. In the initial reassignment to become a counselor, was there any sense that, do you get a sense that people thought, well, he's been in the Peace Corps, he can do anything?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I thought there was that element.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: He's flexible. He could adapt and adjust.

Robert Klein: And you end up as a lunchroom monitor.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And which was really a neat experience because we tried to learn 1,350 kids' names. That was our means of control because if you know somebody's name you have tremendous control.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And it was amazing. One, one person was eating, so there were four of us. In three different lunch periods, one staff member was eating. Clarence Brown, my office mate, and I ate after all this was over because we didn't have assigned duties per se. But anyway, learning those students' names. And one person was outside to monitor the smoking and no fighting policy. So three of us inside.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Two were in the cafeteria and I was in the lunch line to make sure no brawls and cutting and that kind of stuff. And it was amazing. Later on, the students were really talking about serious problems through all this ruckus. And the privacy was tremendous.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I'd say a ninth grader, female. Jeez, I'm pregnant. I think I'm pregnant. And I'd say, go see the nurse.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Okay, whatever. The stuff, the problems kids were having.

Robert Klein: So you were a counselor?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I really was, yes. And I ended up having part of a caseload around, surrounded around these kids who were in PCP, the personalized curriculum program.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And it was amazing. The counselors were changing the kids' schedule, and the psychologist was testing kids, and one social worker was doing therapy. So I said to Ed Hughes, I said, what makes you special? And here you have counselors and psychologists and you're the one doing therapy. He said, I like therapy. I like doing therapy.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So I said, well, what kind of degree you have? He said, I'm still a student at the University of Michigan. And so, evolution, I'm evolving.

Robert Klein: Yeah. Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So I get introduced to Don Jake, which was social worker in Flint Central. He later supervised me. He introduced me to Frank Maple, who was a professor at the University of Michigan School of Social Work.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So I ended up two years later going to the University of Michigan School of Social Work.

Robert Klein: And during this transition period, a year, two years. What was your perspective on the Peace Corps phase of your life? I mean, you're getting to be an old man now in your mid thirties.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And I also meet my wife in this process. She too was a Peace Corps volunteer in Tanzania. And we were speaking together as a panel at the International Institute.

Robert Klein: Yeah. Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So then in June of 1968, so it was a quick romance.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: We got married. But in this time, Martin Luther King gets killed. And on the day of our wedding, Bobby Kennedy's funeral. So.

Robert Klein: Yeah. And the war in Vietnam is still on.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And the war in Vietnam was just getting worse.

Robert Klein: But how does this all relate to your sense of I've been a Peace Corps volunteer? I mean, it may be hard to connect.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, the racial unrest. This is an inner city junior high school.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And 60 percent Black, 40 percent white. And certainly, again, I felt comfortable. African or European. And so I again was able to make that bridge. And so I got to know, you know, African American families as well as European families. And discovering the issue, the racial issue was not race so much as it was economic.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: The whites that were uptight were the poor whites. And so we then tried to work on those issues to try to make the school truly integrate.

Robert Klein: Yeah. Through the, um. I jumped in two directions. Uh. The third goal of the Peace Corps, of course, is that on your return that you become, you inform people about the Peace Corps point of view and possibly about the country you've been in. This is kind of a payoff. Have you done, can you, did you do any of that or have you done any of that?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I certainly would have opportunities to talk to groups about my Peace Corps experience and to talk about Kenya specifically.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And then, then later on talking about how this has affected me.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And so it was in the mixing, in other words, the integration process, at this junior high school particularly.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That it really. I'd come up to a Black student and say, let me rub a little bit of Africa off on you. And they would titter and they'd say.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But, but they knew I'd been to Africa.

Robert Klein: Oh okay. And that was a, that was a plus.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: That was a big plus. Yeah.

Robert Klein: Right. Okay. And did you ever get to formally teach about, I mean, either informal talks about Kenya?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: In this junior high school, the social studies teachers would come to me and say, I'm preparing a week on Africa and could you come up and show slides or give a presentation? So that would happen within that building.

Robert Klein: Right. Okay. Now let's jump ahead, you know, after 30 some, 40 years or whatever. What's your perspective on what, you know, the effect Peace Corps had on you?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, first, as I mentioned, I got married. My wife had been a Peace Corps volunteer in Tanzania in an orphanage. And before we married, she said, you know, that experience is really affected me. And I'm thinking that maybe I'd really like to adopt and could be an African. And so in the course of our marriage, we did adopt a Korean daughter, had a biological son, and then we did adopt an African American. Actually, she's biracial.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Mixed.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And Sue and I have been very grateful having these three children. And they get along fine.

Robert Klein: Seemed perfectly natural to do.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Absolutely.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And certainly my politics have changed. I had to switch parties when I was, I ran for the legislature last year and did not win. But I met a fellow, and my fliers said I had been a Republican. And he said, what made you change? And I said, Nixon. He said, that's a good answer. I'll vote for you.

Robert Klein: But he may have been the only one who voted for you. Um. That's kind of the end of the interview. I don't know if there's anything else you'd like to mention about Peace Corps, about your involvement.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Well, I mentioned the word evolution, and I'm still evolving.

Robert Klein: Uh huh.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I'm still changing. I'm still a student. And I'm going to be 70 in six weeks or so and I'm still young. And I attribute a lot of that to my Peace Corps experience. And I'm forever grateful. I'm grateful to you for coming out and staying, you old fart.

Robert Klein: You know, have you, have you had a chance to go back to Kenya?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I, soon I would like to go back to East Africa, but we just, the kids and college.

Robert Klein: Yeah. So you haven't.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But, you know, there's not to say that the time will not come.

Robert Klein: Yeah. And have you maintained any kind of contact with people from the, that you knew, the Kenyan students, staff, or?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: I have to a degree but it's not been.

Robert Klein: Yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: A lot of people and then firm contact. We had a reunion, a 20th reunion, and I missed it. In San Francisco in 1984.

Robert Klein: Of your teaching group?

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Right. And we didn't have a 40th.

Robert Klein: Right.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: But it takes a lot of energy to organize one of those things.

Robert Klein: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: So I'm thinking maybe I'll try to do something. I'll try to do something.

Robert Klein: Well, you know, and in some ways, Peace Corps ex- volunteers, they're very individual people and they don't respond readily to groups.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: And not everybody has put their name in the directory.

Robert Klein: No, certainly not. Certainly not. Well, good. That's, uh.

Russell P. Breyfogle Jr.: Thank you very much.