Interviewer(s): Timothy Price
Interviewee(s): Participant 06

Timothy Price: And the first thing that will do is I'm going to read you a series of statements. This is a consent sheet. So it's just getting your, your verbal consent to participate in the study. So it's kind of a long series of statements and it gets a little repetitive, but I'll ask you to bear with me. So I'll just have you say yes or no to each of these please I confirm that I've read the information sheet for this study. I've had the opportunity to consider the information to ask questions and have had these questions answered satisfactorily.

Participant 06: Yes

Timothy Price: I understand that my participation is voluntary, and that I am free to withdraw anytime without giving any reason. I also understand that I can decline to answer any questions during the interview.

Participant 06: Yes.

Timothy Price: I understand the information collected during my interview, maybe like that by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study I give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

Participant 06: Yes.

Timothy Price: I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for use in future research for teaching purposes that the data will be thoroughly anonymized first.

Participant 06: Yes

Timothy Price: I understand that the interview will be audio video recorded typed out and then my identifying personal details will be removed.

Participant 06: Yes.

Timothy Price: I understand the direct quotations may be taken from what I say and used in research or publications, but I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

Participant 06: Yes

Timothy Price: Right, and I agree to take part in this study,

Participant 06: yes.

Timothy Price: Excellent. So there are two other things here. If you would like to receive a copy of the research findings. Upon completion of the study, you can tell me or email me after the study is finished.

Participant 06: Yeah, I'd like to have a copy. That's okay.

Timothy Price: Yeah, absolutely. So I will finish my study by the end of August, so I'll send you the the findings probably towards the end of August. Thank you. Yeah. And would you like to receive a hard copy of the study documents I would mail those to you.

Participant 06: Ah, whatever is easier.It doesn't have to be a hard copy. If you just email thats fine.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so I can, I can send you an email.

Participant 06: Yeah, that's fine.

Thank you. Yeah

Timothy Price: Absolutely. All right, so that's that out of the way. So we can kind of dive into some of my questions here. So my first couple questions are just get to know kind of your children a little bit better get a sense for what you know about the flu. So you have two children. Right?

Participant 06: Yes, yeah.

Timothy Price: How old are they?

Participant 06: Ah my little girls two, she's gonna turn three next month, and my little boys five.

Timothy Price: Very nice. So the five year old has started school?

Participant 06: That's right, yeah. So it would have been, would be in, he's in reception. Yeah. [Laughter]

Timothy Price: Yeah, would be in reception, should be in reception, is in reception, its all kind of a gray area at this point.

Participant 06: Yeah.

Timothy Price: That's great. So what kind of things today like to do, how are they doing at home?

Participant 06: Well, they like to squabble a lot. Yeah, they are very imaginative, the two of them and they're like to come up with all sorts of like different role play type games that they create their own universe and run around and play in that, So, yeah, they're quite high energy, quite active like to be doing lots of things usually to get me to do a lot of those things.

Timothy Price: Sure, yeah, that's a lot. Sounds nice and you are certainly not the first person I've talked to that has said that their kids like to squabble during lockdown. Seems to be a favorite of all the children. So can you tell me a little bit about what you know about the flu? Just sort of your first impressions like symptoms. Is it serious? is it a problem for children or a problem for adults? you know, anything you can kind of tell me about it.

Participant 06: Yeah, and I'm not very scientifically minded at all and but I know that the flu is a virus and that its seasonal. And that it has different symptoms and affects different people in different ways. I feel like is it something that can be quite serious for some people. And in like in my household definitely my son's got he's suffered from viral wheez. So he's been hospitalized a few times as a result of that. So we take quite seriously. Also, my husband and I both had an asthma. And so it's something where I've had the flu. A few times and I've been very unwell with it. And so yeah, we've got all these other people in the family who suffer from respiratory problems and and my mother in law's had the flu and it's developed into pneumonia for her as well. I think she's been quite ill with it. So yeah, it's something that can be quite bad.

Timothy Price: Yeah, yeah. So do you worry about your children getting the flu or is it something you think mostly like older people kind of worru about?

Participant 06: Ya know I, I do get concerned about my kids getting the flu and particularly if my daughter got it cause I know all her, she's not got a great immune system. And so, and I've, because I've had the flu myself a few times and I've been really unwell with it. Kind of aches, pains, and like all sorts of horrible, horrible symptoms, I really wouldn't want them to have it. And also, like being a parent, looking after an ill child is just no fun at all. So, yeah, so the reasons but I mean I know if they did get it, it's not, it's something that you know it's unlikely to actually kill them or anything like that. But it is something that could make quite unwell for that time. So, yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So what do you think like if you were watching, you know, you're kind of keeping an eye on your children. You see them starting to get ill. And you think that they're getting the flu. What symptoms would you expect to see that would kind of tip you off to the fact that they're getting flu.

Participant 06: I think I would probably see a big drop in energy levels from them. So I think that would probably be the first thing I don't know what the equivalent word is like but we, I would say that they look a bit 'felt'. That's the word that would tend to use to describe them so they just kind of Not quite themselves. They're not, sort of, I mean, they might have cold symptoms, but I don't think that would be what would make me think it was flu because they always get colds, like all the time. But it would be more the kind of a drop in energy level, complaining about aches and pains, and probably they're getting kind of, you know, temperature with that and but even if they were having things like, like, like a bad tummy or something like that. I might wonder, and whether it could be the flu.

Timothy Price: Yeah, no, that's great. Um, so you mentioned that you have had the flu, a few times in the past. Um, do you know anyone have your children or do you know anyone whose children have had the flu?

Participant 06: No, actually. No, I don't. Now that you've said that I don't know of any kids that have actually had the flu.

Timothy Price: Sure, absolutely. Um, so when you want to learn about a sickness, like the flu, even if it's just you know, like you want to learn symptoms or you want to learn, you know, what you can do to to help them get better when they have it. Where do you go to get that kind of information?

Participant 06: Ah the NHS website.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Are there any others, or is it just there?

Participant 06: NHS website is probably the first one I would go to you because I think it's probably more likely the reliable than anything else on the internet and but I've looked at this Web MD and that one comes up all the time and that one seems quite good. That's probably where I'd go. If it was something, if I didn't think it was something like a flu and something that I wasn't sure of what it was and I thought that my kid was really unwell I'd phone 111. I've phoned them before and told them the symptoms over the phone before. That's when they seemed quite unwell with something.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so if it was like, just general knowledge, you'd probably go online and if it was something more immediately concerning you would be inclined to 111. Is that kind of?

Participant 06: Yeah

Timothy Price: Have you ever talked to your child's GP about the flu, or to like any medical professional?

Participant 06: I have done because, um but not specifically about the flu. I've spoken to them about the flu vaccination before and because my son has severe food allergies. He's allergic to egg and he's allergic to milk and I'd heard that you couldn't have the flu vaccination, if you've got an egg allergy. So I've spoken to, and he's got an allergy specialist team. So I've spoken to them quite extensively about it in the fall.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And how did that conversation go? Can you tell me a little more about that? Did seem to be knowledgeable about the subject it. Was it helpful to you or no?

Participant 06: Yeah, and [Son]'s allergy team at hospital are just like incredible people. And they know so much and I have 100% confidence in what they were telling me. So they said that the information that we'd received to say that there was a, you know, that he couldn't have it because he couldn't have the vaccination because he has an egg allergy was wrong. So that's completely out of date and that the actual way that the flu vaccinations cultivated wouldn't actually, I think it's the way that it's extracted or something like I'm sorry I'm not very scientific minded. The actual protein that would cause an allergic reaction, there wouldn't be even any trace of it at all um, in the flu vaccination. So it was perfectly safe for him to have it from the allergy teams point of view. And that was really good, but it's almost, kind of every time a consent form or something like that comes around. It almost makes it like challenging for us toTo fill that in, we have to put kind of extra explanation. "Yes he does have an egg allergy. But yes, it is safe for him to use it. And this information is out of date. And you need to contact his allergy team about it and here's the number"

Timothy Price: So it sounds like, um when there is a kind of discrepancy in information that you would tend to go with the allergy team because is it. Can you tell me why that is exactly what sort of makes us kind of take their advice more seriously?

Participant 06: Oh this loads of reasons why. And so, from personal experience, my son, and was diagnosed with it allergy when he was six months old, and it was because I'd fed him some porridge. It was the first thing he'd ever eaten, and it had milk powder in it and he had an anaphylactic reaction and he nearly died. And it was, it was horrific, traumatic. It was very intense and at the time I didn't really know what was happening and it took him to the GP and everything. He called immediately in emergency response team and you gave him oxygen and kind of gave him adrenaline and kind of brought him back round to consciousness, but he was completely floppy. He was completely unconscious. It was horrific and but at that time. But at the time there was so many factors around it. So prior to him having that allergic reaction I had spoken to you at least one GP and to health visitors about what I thought was my son's severe eczema and they said it wasn't eczema. "It's just dry skin". And for me, you kind of basically stop worrying about it. Stop fussing about it. And I thought, "Well, I'm a new mother, and I've got no idea what I'm doing here. So I'll take their advice and I'll just put these creams on." That made it worse and all sorts of things. After, immediately after [Son] had his anaphalactic shock, the allergy specialist who I'm referring to, after the pediatric doctors had kind of got him safe and stable. He came to visit us and explain what was going on and gave us. Sorry, I'm getting upset about it was such a hard experience.

Timothy Price: No, no, I, I appreciate you telling me about it. If you know, if you decide that you don't want to talk about this anymore. Please feel free to tell me to move on and we will move on.

Participant 06: Thank you, no, just bear with me from getting a bit, but it was emotional. And so the allergy specialist came in and we talked about it. And he said, I mean, I hadn't said anything about his eczema or anything like that. And he said, "Well, one of the first signs that it was likely that your son was going to have a, you know, potential food allergy or was at risk for having a food allergy is eczema." But at that up until that point, all of the health specialists that I'd spoken to had told me "it's not eczema, it's just dry skin". So I felt at that time horrific because I thought "I knew that he had a problem and I knew he had eczema" and if somebody told me. "Oh, Your son's got eczema, you know, be careful when introducing foods that are common allergens" that I might have avoided such a traumatic experience for all of us, because he could have died at that point, if I hadn't got the medical attention straightaway. So it's something that's quite simple. You know, going to see a GP health visitor about eczema, but then lead into something like this and being told straightaway. "Well, this is the first sign that you know it could have ended up like this." So, so he does definitely you know and the team, they know so much about it. But it didn't kind of stop there because

At the time, the pediatric doctor and the allergy specialist said, "Look, it's we don't know what it is right now without doing further tests definitively. But we can say, we're fairly confident this is a milk allergy and it's been triggered as a result of the milk powder that was in the porridge, because that's the main allergen that was in there." So I thought, "Okay, I've got no idea how process that" but I phoned the GP. I think the next day just to kind of I think was just because I needed a syringe to administer the medication, they hadn't given me one. So I phoned them to ask about that. And they said, "oh, did they know what's causing it?" and said, all "they think it's a milk allergy" and the GP I spoke to said, "well, it's not a milk allergy and milk allergy wouldn't have that reaction. It's, that's not what it is." And so I just felt really upset again because I was on the phone saying, "Look, I'm not saying that it's a milk allergy, the pediatric doctors told me that that's what it is." But they were immediately kind of cutting it there. She just immediately cut it down said "no you don't know what you're talking about. Basically, it's not a milk allergy that's incredibly rare that wouldn't have happened that wouldn't have had that reaction". And then, lo and behold, he had his allergy tests and it was a milk allergy and he had a very severe reaction, even though it's rare. It did happen. I'm not saying it was their fault. You know, it's, it is rare, and you know that might be the general advice that they give to people, but my confidence in what, in the health visitors and the GP have about very specialist things like that was quite severely undermined, at that point. But the allergy team have so specialized in it and they know so much about it, and have personal experience in it. I absolutely trust, kind of, everything that they tell me and I follow all of their advice. Sorry, about that! It was a horrible experience.

Timothy Price: No, no, thank you for telling me about that. That sounds like it must have been an incredibly difficult and stressful thing to deal with. But thank you know, for kind of walking me through that. It sounds like sort of what I what I hear from that is that, you know, you had this experience with the GP that sort of made you lose, kind of faith in what they were telling you was accurate. And whereas with the specialists you you know what you kind of started to trust them more because what they had told you was accurate. And that, that sort of faith has continued to hold that you know if there's a discrepancy between the GP and the specialist, you're always going to go with what the specialist is telling you. But that, you know, I can't imagine how hard that must have been that must have been a really scary thing to have happen. I'm sorry that it did. And I'm glad that your son was okay. So my next sort of set of questions I helped me learn a little bit about your thoughts around the flu vaccine specifically and whether or not it's something that can be helpful to your children.

So what do you think the benefits are of having your children get the flu vaccine or are there any benefits to it?

Participant 06: So I think it's probably two main benefits. One is that it will protect them from having the flu, which they'll become unwell with and and yeah, I don't really want to see them, you know, in a position where they're very unwell. But the other thing as well as I think it's important for them to get it and not spread it to, you know, the people who are more susceptible or who can't have a vaccine or who, even if they do have a vaccine, the vaccines potentially less effective in them. You know, they like to spend a lot of time with grandparents who might have the flu vaccine, but it might not be as effective in them because the older. Also there's a little boy and my son's class and he had leukemia, who has leukemia. Well, he's recovering from leukemia, but you know, you're very, very, very aware that there are some children out there who just can't. Who can't have it and, you know, they can't come across things like this. SO like I said they're the two main reasons.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so that's interesting. So it's sort of like there's two, if I'm understanding correctly, like the there's two benefits. There's, you know, your child won't get sick, but also like a collective benefit almost responsibility to have them vaccinated to protect other people.

Participant 06: Yeah

Timothy Price: Yeah. Do you think, I'm curious and this is, you know, maybe there's nothing to this, but I wonder, do you think that that sort of collective benefit of protecting other people is something that you thought about before the coronavirus started going around?, You know because there's been so much emphasis on "stay home save lives". Do you think that that is something you valued beforehand or is that something that you're realizing is valuable now?

Participant 06: It's something that came beforehand. I probably hadn't thought about it as much until he started school and does the little boy in his class with leukemia.

Timothy Price: Mm hmm. So that sort of that interaction, knowing that there is someone who needed that protection, is sort of what made you start to value it?

Participant 06: Yeah, I mean, I would have always, I would have always given them vaccinations anyway. And just generally to kind of protect them from it and like, why would you not? Sorry, I just don't understand why you would ever not. but I hadn't thought, particularly if the benefit, for, in terms of him, potentially spreading it, I probably hadn't really thought about that as much until there was a little boy who's really unwell. You know, his mother was always sending us kind of messages to, like, "please let us know if your child's coming down with any of these infectious diseases, or viruses or whatever, because you know it's going to put him in hospital for a long time." So, yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that, that sounds like a very powerful motivator. Um, do you think there are downsides to having your child get the flu vaccine or not?

Participant 06: So, the actual vaccine itself. I don't think there's any particular downsides. I've never, when they've had it, I've never noticed them be unwwell, or anything like that as a result. It's mildly inconvenient and sometimes they don't want to have it. But other than that, the actual vaccine itself. I don't see any downside.

Timothy Price: Yeah, but like so. So when you say mildly inconvenient. You mean like just getting just getting in, organizing it, arranging it?

Participant 06: Yeah.

Timothy Price: So when you talked to. You said you talked to the allergy specialist about the flu vaccine, what prompted you to start thinking about the vaccine? You mentioned a letter. It was that something that came from your GP or what, what, can you tell me a little more about that?

Participant 06: Yes, so we were invited in for the first time that we, I think, I cant remember but we got an invitation, invitation for my son to have the flu vaccine. And I think part of, I don't know if there's a medical form or something that you had to fill in and it mentioned about egg allergy. So that just I think that's what kind of led me to it. But I'm fairly confident our invitation for um, to get the vaccine came from the GP.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Um, so, has your daughter been vaccinated as well, or just your son?

Participant 06: So if we're talking just about if we're talking about this season. So las, just maybe before Christmas time. My son was vaccinated in school as part of their school program that they run. And the letter that was referring to the just now, this time, was a form that we have fill in for the school. But my daughter was invited for a flu vaccine, but we haven't had her vaccinated.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Um, so can you explain so you got that invitation to vaccinate can you. Was it a decision not to vaccinate or is it just sort of something that happened?

Participant 06: Yeah, so when I talked about the mild inconvenience. That's where this comes in because the GP had, they'd organized and it was quite short window of clinics that they had available and they only were available at certain times on Friday. Now I work part time but Friday's one of the days that I'm in work. And also my daughter's in playgroup that day. So I think Id got a text message actually from them to say, and if your child's age two they can come along to get this, you can sign in with one of these clinics. So what happened was, I think when I got the message. I thought, "Oh no, I'm going to have to organize time off. And then I'm going to have to organize being able to pick my kid up" and like all this kind of stuff. So I just didn't get round to it straightaway because I thought, "I've got to do these things". And then when I did and I phoned them up and they said "It's all booked up and we're not, we don't have any more clinics and available." I think that was only, it was a quite a short time frame. I can't remember exactly what it was. And then they said, "well get back in touch with us about making another appointment and we'll let you know if his clinics available" but I thought, "well, how will I, how do I know when the next available window is?" And then I never heard back from them. So it was, so it's more a logistic problem that we couldn't get there because it was on a day that work.

Timothy Price: Yeah, no. That makes sense. Um, so it wasn't it sounding like it wasn't important to you that she not receive the vaccine. It was just sort of the inconvenience. It just didn't kind of end up happening is that correct, or am I sort of misunderstanding?

Participant 06: That's right. I actually did wanted to have the vaccine. I just didn't have the, I just, I wasn't able to arrange it and then when I did phone up to arrange it. It was no longer available.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And do you happen to know like what time of year it was, you know, can you guess it the month at all or no?

Participant 06: I think it might have been umm....

Timothy Price: Yeah, it was a long time ago.

Participant 06: I know. I think it was around November. It was definitely and it wasn't October, I think it was, I think it was slipping around November time. We have like so many different things going on at that time as well because it's kind of between October and December when both of the children just start school at the same time there's like a million different things to do. I think was November.

Timothy Price: Yeah okay yeah that's that's great to know. Thank you. So we are coming up on the end here, my last few questions are just kind of general and they helped me learn on your thoughts about vaccination as a whole. So have your children received any other vaccinations, like the routine childhood vaccinations.

Participant 06: Yeah, they both received all of their routine and childhood vaccinations.

Timothy Price: Um, can you explain how you decided that they will receive those vaccinations? Like, was it something you researched, something you talk to your GP about, or was it something that you just said you know, you didn't really feel like you needed to learn about you just decided to kind of do it, you know, can you speak to that a little?

Participant 06: Yeah, I think it was. There was never any question. There was never any doubt that we would get them vaccinated. So I didn't do any research. I don't know if, when it, when I was little. When I was a little girl. I remember like when I was a child at school, I remember some, I remember people coming down with things like meningitis and like the other, with these other onditions that they're able to get vaccinated against and being severely ill and all. There's no way I'm having my kids suffer from any of these conditions, if I can avoid it. So they're definitely getting vaccinated.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Yes. Have you have you personally had the flu vaccine this year?

Participant 06: Ah, yes.

Timothy Price: And how did that work out? like how did you get that vaccine was it something that was offered through work or something you went to a pharmacy for?

Participant 06: So it was something that was offered through work. So Newcastle University had signed up to some sort of partnership with boots chemist and and they were offering free vaccinations. So yeah, went in and got that.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that certainly makes that easy. So that was my, my last question, but the thing I kind of like to close on is just, is there anything about the flu, or flu vaccine, or vaccination in general, just anything that I didn't ask about that you were hoping we could talk about before we kind of close things off there.

Participant 06: Ah no problem. Probably one of the things I mentioned just about the whole allergy side of things, like, I don't know if this impact on the research that you're doing it all, but just that and things like that get kind of updated in the kind of the advice from the allergy side of things is updated, but the advice that we are given as parents isn't right and I think it would put probably, you know, if I hadn't had such a good relationship with the allergy team, it would quite easily put you off to say, "well, no, I'm not going to get them vaccinated because it says here that causes a problem." So I think that kind of and I guess one side being updated and the other side not being updated as a bit of a problem. That's a bit of a problem.

Timothy Price: Yeah, it's hard to sounds like it would be hard to navigate conflicting information, especially when it's about something as important as the safety of of your child. Yeah, yeah, that's that is. That's good feedback to hear. So that is that's everything I had. I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording now.