Interviewer(s): Timothy Price
Interviewee(s): Participant 05

Timothy Price: So we'll start with the consent process here. So what I'll do is I'll read you a series of statements and if you could just say, Yes, I agree. Or no, I don't agree to each one. So I confirm that I have read the information sheet for this study. I have had the opportunity to consider the information asked questions and have had these questions answered satisfactorily.

Participant 05: I agree.

Timothy Price: I understand that my participation is voluntary and that I can withdraw at any time without giving any reason. I also understand that I can decline to answer any questions during the interview.

Participant 05: I agree.

Timothy Price: I understand the information collected during my interview may be looked at by other researchers from Newcastle University who are working on or assisting with the study I give permission for these individuals to have access to this information.

Participant 05: I agree.

Timothy Price: I understand that information collected during the interview may be shared with other researchers for us in future research or teaching purposes and that the data will be thoroughly and anonamyised first

Participant 05: I agree

Timothy Price: I understand the direct quotation may be taken from what I say and used in research or publication, but that I will not be identifiable from these quotations.

Participant 05: Yes, I agree.

Timothy Price: I agree to take part in this study.

Participant 05: I agree.

Timothy Price: Excellent. And then there's two things here. If you like to receive a copy of the research findings. Once the study is completed. You can either let me know now or at any point by email, you know, after the interviews completed.

Participant 05: I think it will be quite interesting, actually. So, yes. Yeah. Yes.

Timothy Price: Yes, so I will send you those once the studies finished, which will be by the end of August. I'll send them to your email address.

Participant 05: Okay, thank you.

Timothy Price: And if you would like to receive a hard copy of this documents you can let me know now or after the study, but I will need your mailing address so that I can send you all those

Participant 05: That's fine email. Email would be fine.

Timothy Price: All right. Excellent.

Alright, so that's out of the way so we can go ahead and sort of dive in here. So in your expression of interest survey. You said you had two children. Is that right, and what are their names?

Participant 05: [Older Child] and [Younger Child]

Timothy Price: [Older Child] and [Younger Child] and one of them is three years old, and the other is four Is that right?

Participant 05: That's right, yes.

Timothy Price: So has the four year old started school yet or no?

Participant 05: Yes, her birthday falls just on the last day of the cutoff. So she started school in September, reception.

Timothy Price: Yeah, how is she liking it so far?

Participant 05: She was loving it. I think she gets tired and you know that i think they all do, just, you know, on a five day week, gets tired. Then by the end of term she is just shuttered. and we've done homeschooling since 23rd of March, and I think she started enjoying that, I think. She only went back to school yesterday. I think it was time to go back to school and I think she was sick of us. Sick of us, sick of her sister. I think we've worked hard than the school, to be honest. Yeah, but you know, that's that's par for the course. And so, yeah, she loves school and [Younger Child] goes to the nursery at the school so they're in the same place normally.

Timothy Price: Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I think for kids their age, so much of it is like the social aspect is, you know, being around other kids and other adults, you know, their teachers and stuff. Things that normally they dont have contact with and homeschooling is hard on everyone, I think. Yeah.

Participant 05: Yeah, I would agree with that.

Timothy Price: You suddenly become a teacher and they suddenly lose all those, you know, all those experiences that they like.

Participant 05: And they don't respect you as a teacher, either. So getting them to do what you want them to do is actually a lot harder. They challenge you more than they would a teacher in a school, they challenge you. You just have " I dont want to do that. I want to play. I want to do this" so its been fun.

Timothy Price: Have they gone back now, or?

Participant 05: No only, only [Older Child] has gone back and she's only back Thursday, Friday. This week, Monday, Tuesday next week and then for the last two weeks of term she's in her for half days. [Younger Child] doesn't, they wouldn't hold nursery because there weren't enough children, which I get. Which is fine. When they're on their own, they're fine. [laughter]

Timothy Price: Yeah, I grew up, when I grew up, my mum had three boys. We were all close in age and she has been saying throughout this whole process that she's just so incredibly grateful that lockdown happened once we were adults because had she been having the three of us stuck at home for a couple months she would have gone crazy. So you know, I, I appreciate the fact that this has been, you know, quite a, quite a month. A couple months.

Participant 05: Yes, but it's, you know, up to us. I say all that, but it's been very rewarding because we because we both work work full time. And the amount of time we actually get to spend with them through the week is very limited. You know, you get that half hour, 45 minutes in the morning. And then you get an hour, maybe when they come in from school that they were home from work. So the time we get together as a family is quite limited. Normally, so this has actually been very, very good experience so a point of note. The one side has been very challenging, but on the other, just been very rewarding as well.

Timothy Price: Yeah.

Well that's nice that. Yeah, that's a nice kind of silver lining to it.

Participant 05: yeah yeah

Timothy Price: Yeah, so could you tell me a little bit about what you know about the flu? like when you think of flu what as far as symptoms. Is it serious thing that kids get? kind of any thoughts you have there.

Participant 05: So I suppose really my only experience of it is in adults. And so, and personal experience, that it's completely debilitating. So when people say, you know, they've been off work for a few days and come back and say "I've had flu." No, they haven't they've had cold. Because anybody who's really had flu knows it's, it's nasty, it completely wipes you out. And actually it's not just when you first aquire it, you know actually take a few, few days to recover just your physical strength. Because when I've had it, I think I've only had it twice in me life, which I've been pretty lucky, and I'd been wiped out for a couple weeks. And so, you know, I appreciate the seriousness of it. I've not had any underlying health conditions. So I don't, I've never considered it is dangerous for me. But equally, I wouldn't like my elderly parents have both at heart conditions to get it. And so I do recognize that it can be quite serious. I don't know if it's deadly if I'm honest. I guess there are strains of the flu, like you know different epidemics and pandemics in, and in history, where they have been nasty like Spanish flu and all of that. But I don't know if, I don't know if they're just special strains or individual strains or if they were like what I would consider 'normal flu'. Is deadly to a healthy person. But should I be sayin that, given where we are at the moment? Me own husband's been in intensive care with this one. So.

Timothy Price: My goodness, wow.

Participant 05: So, you know, we take it serious.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And has your, has your husband recovered? Is he doing a bit better now?

Participant 05: Yeah, he's fine now. He was in during Easter, over the Easter weekend. He was in hospital but he, he caught this virus. And we both had it up. I finished work when I first stoped work. Ah, stopped when I first started remote work, and I had it. But I was ok, and then [Husband] got it just after me. And he just went rapidly downhill there he was, could absolutely, could not breathe. I ended up, because my manager at work is [Manager]. And [Manager] was ringing me up at home sayin "Hows his breathing? Hows that? [Manager] at the finish said that, "if you see any, any change in his breathing you must ring 999". And that afternoon I came up, he was asleep and then about 20 minutes later I went in the room and he just couldn't breath at all. So I rang 999 and they took him literally straght in and then he was in intensive care for two weeks.

Timothy Price: Wow. Well, I'm, I'm so glad to hear that he's alright and that you were too.

Participant 05: Absolutely fine, he's fine now.

Timothy Price: That that is terrible.

Participant 05: Yeah, so really we take flu very seriously in our house.

Timothy Price: I'm sure. I'm sure that, I'm sure that when you have a, you know, a respiratory disease like that. And it's, it gets so serious that you've been in hospital, you wouldn't want to take any chances with anything ever again.

Participant 05: No. But in fairness, we would have taken it seriously before that happened. That's just another example of you know, "right okay, in future we'll be very, very careful." So, yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Um, so kind of similarly, is flu something you worry about your children getting? Or is it mostly something you worry about for adults?

Participant 05: To be honest, I've never really thought about children gettin flu and how, how badly they would get it. I would, you know, I don't know. You know, you never know if they're going to have underlying health conditions like asthma or something like that. So take it seriously. I mean, when they've had colds, you can tell the difference, can't you? When they're not well, you can see that they're headachey, that they're wingey. Or they get a cold and it's just a little, you get the traditional green candle kind of thing and so you can tell the difference. But I've never, you know when they've been unwell I've never considered it to be flu, just been unwell normally or been something else viral, not the flu. But I don't know about in terms of children, I don't know if children can get proper flu. But then theres flu vaccination for them, so they must.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so would you, like can you, like, can you imagine what you think, if you were looking at one of your children. They're getting sick. What sort of things would you expect to see if they were getting flu or would you not really know what to look for?

Participant 05: Uhm I would be looking for them, or listening for them telling me they had any headaches and you tend to be able to tell right away if they're feeling wingey. You know, your north or clingy and unwell.Temperature. Definitely. You can always tell when the start getting a temperature, visibly before getting a thermometer out. You can tell quite easily. But you just look for the kind of, you just know they're not themselves. They might be a lot more lethargic, they be complaining that things are hurting. Like I say, headaches. I would be giving them calpol. That's probably the steadfast cure for everything, a bit of calpol. Just give them a bit of calpol and put them to bed. And would be my, you know thats my observations of what we do with them anyway.

Timothy Price: Yeah, I've heard from from so many parents that with children of this age, it's so much more about like interpreting what you see, rather than having them tell you. So do you know anyone whose child has gotten seriously ill with the flu or has gotten the flu?

Participant 05: No I don't.

Timothy Price: Yeah. If you want to learn about a sickness, like the flu or, you know, another kind of illness like that, where would you go to get that information? So if you want to learn like symptoms or how to treat it at home like that kind of stuff.

Participant 05: So I use the NHS net. I just go on the internet. Normally it will point you through. It obviously picks up a lot of American websites. WebMD often comes up as one of them. I tend to go to the NHS ones because obviously the rules are different in the UK as to what you can treat things with. And so I tend to look on on NHS net if if I'm looking for anything on you know, I'm not sure about something, like when they get them, you know, a strange rash appears on them, I go on there to see if I can find out what it looks like and that kind of thing.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Have you ever talked to your child's GP about the flu or to any other medical professional about flu and how it could affect your child?

Participant 05: We, so talking to the less than, well no. We have had correspondence from the school and from uh, that must be the health visitor actually. They write to you when they're due for the checks and they point out, you know, the, the reasons why you should get your child vaccinated. So I haven't actually had a conversation with them about it other than once I've gone into the surgery with them.

Timothy Price: That's great. Um, so what do you think the benefits are of having your child get the flu vaccine?

Participant 05: Um, so I do understand that when they get the vaccine, it's not necessarily a guarantee they wont get flu, but it vastly reduces the possibility that they will. I also have a kind of underlying hope that if they've had the vaccine and the do get flu they wont have it as badly.

Timothy Price: Mm hmm.

Participant 05: I don't know. I don't know if I'm just being optimistic there. So yeah, then the two things I think that they won't get the flu. Therefore, we'll have a healthier household, you know all fit well and we can carry on life as normal. So for them, they're not sick. Because of, you know, I don't particularly want them to get sick, but also for us it's, it's, it means your life and continue on as normally. You don't miss out on school and all the learning opportunities because [Younger Child] is just in nursery. And we don't miss out on work because if one gets it, then we would all have it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, I think especially for parents of young children. It sounds like one of the benefits people see tends to be that, you know, sick kid isn't just unfortunate because your child is sick. It's unfortunate because as long as they're sick, there's going to be this major disruption to you're going to work and all that.

Participant 05: And then they pass it on, and it goes through the family, so it has a, you know, has a much bigger effect.

Timothy Price: Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. So it's not just, you know, one or two weeks it's two weeks times how many people you have in house.

Participant 05: Oh yeah. And with something like flu. It's not something you can, say if you know, like us, We're quite lucky that we've got grandparents who will help look after them. Now if one of mine have flu, I would not give them to my parents to look after because they're elderly. So I would take the time off and stay at home, and whereas if they have something like chicken pox, you can because parents have had chicken pox, shingles, all that, you know. So they're through all that, they're immune. But I wouldn't do that with them with something like flu where they're, when the risk of them getting it, it would be very serious.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that's an interesting point. So it sounds like there would be maybe a little bit less, you would feel like you had a little bit less opportunity for familial support with flu?

Participant 05: You know you can send them with a tummy upset or something like that. But you gotta be, you know, when you've got elderly parents, you have to be quite careful. So you do rely less of course. Yeah, you just rely less on your family for that kind of thing. Yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, um, do you think there are downsides to having your child get the flu vaccine and what would those downsides be?

Participant 05: Um, I don't think there's a downside to it. If I'm honest, it was. It's interesting because I know this is about [Younger Child]'s age each group. Now [Younger Child], [Younger Child] did have an injection. Pretty sure she did have an injection but [Older Child] had a just a nose spray. So I don't know why the difference because and [Older Child] got has done at school and but [Younger Child] has done at the GP surgery by the nurse. And I'm sure when I think back, I'm sure she had a vaccination. So the momentary discomfort of having the vaccination I think. And the benefits of that vastly outweigh, so I don't really see it as a problem and I don't believe there are any long term effects from it because it was all explained to me when she had the injection, that the virus that was given, it was dead, and that she would should not have any symptoms. If she had anything that would be no more than a bit of a temperature for a couple of hours maybe up to 48 hours after should originally had it. So I didn't see any of that as as negatives for her.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So it sounds like what you're saying is that you thought there were overwhelming benefits that outweighed some minor downsides. Is that accurate?

Participant 05: Definitely.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So when you want to learn more about a vaccine, like the flu vaccine or any vaccination, Like if it should be given your child, what benefits it would have for your child, what side effects it could have, where would you go to get that information?

Participant 05: Uhm probably the practice, me GP practice. I will do a little bit of searching online. But often, often for things like that. You've got to have a very practical mindset. I think sometimes you can scare yourself off to death when you read things online. So if I have any concerns, I would ask the doctor.

Timothy Price: Mm hmm.

Have you ever talked to your child's GP about the flu vaccine. The flu vaccine specifically?

Participant 05: Not about the flu vaccine. I went to talk to the practice nurse when I went in. So she, you know before I actually let her have the vaccine. Had a chat with her about it, she explained, like I say, all about the you know, the virus actually being dead and shouldn't have any side effects for her. So I didn't talk to the GP but I talked to the practice nurse.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And did she When you you know when you brought [Younger Child] into the practice for the vaccine. Did you have those questions, or is that information or it's just kind of provided to you as standard course for the appointment.

Participant 05: It was provided a standard course, I didnt, because I've read, you know, read around it before I took her in and I didn't really have any additional questions. It was just the information sheet provided. But what I didn't realize was, you know, when they talk about no side effects. The reason why. And because it's not a live virus that they're given them so it shouldn't, I just hadn't appreciated that I suppose.

Timothy Price: Yeah. So, [Younger Child] was vaccinated. How important was it to you that she be vaccinated for the flu? Was it something that, you know, as soon as you learned she was eligible you were picking up the phone to make an appointment? Or was it something where you were more like "well you know, if it happens, it happens". Can you give me a sense for that?

Participant 05: So as soon as the University said, we could have the vaccinations. I was probably one of the first ones to sign on it. I wanted it. Because [Husband] had it a couple of years ago and he was really poorly with it. And so I think I've just got practical mindset about it. Lili was having it at school and I signed her up when we went for the family introduction, I signed up there and then for it. And so she got it through them and I didn't have to worry about her. But I didn't know how I was going to get [Younger Child] done. Then I just got a letter from the surgery, they got in touch with me and said, you know, "she's eligible, do you want to have it?" and I took her straight down and got it done. And so I didn't need to really look into it. As such, it was the office, were there for me and I took, took opportunity, the opportunity that was there. I would have gotten it, you know, even if that opportunity hadn't come along, because she goes to nursery and if there's flu going round the nursery I don't want her picking it up. So I would have explored it meself had that offer not come in at the time it did.

Timothy Price: Yeah, that makes sense. So once you decided, you know once you have the letter and you decided okay You know, we're going to get, get you the flu vaccine. How easy was the process from there? Can you kind of walk me through what it looked like. Was it just a phone call and then you had an appointment. You brought her in, or was it a bit more complicated?

Participant 05: Oh, that was exactly it. We got an appointment. We just rang up and explained that we were taken her in for a vaccination and they just gave us an appointment. I worked that around work, I had to finish early to take her down, which is fine. I picked her up from nursery and took her down. It was no, not difficult at all. It was a very easy process.

Timothy Price: Yeah, great. Do you remember what month it was at all, was it in the fall more in the winter?

Participant 05: Think it was October, November time

Timothy Price: Sure, yeah, that's great. So that, yes, that's kind of all my questions on that subject. So I do have a few other questions that are just kind of to help me learn our thoughts surrounding vaccination as a whole. Has your child receives any other vaccinations, like the kind of standard course of vaccinations.

Participant 05: Yes, she's had them all.

Timothy Price: Yeah. And how did you decide that she should receive those vaccinations was that something you researched? Was it something you talked about? Or maybe you didn't feel like you needed to do much at all?

Participant 05: The only one I had any reservations about was the MMR vaccination, just because its had all that, a few years ago there was all that and discussion about whether it's caused autism. It's the only vaccination actually that she's had a reaction to.

Timothy Price: Oh, really?

Participant 05: Yeah, no, Lili didn't have any reactions at all. But [Younger Child], I had a bit of a funny experience about 48 hours after she had it. She went all, not quite floppy but very, like wobbly, she just couldn't really control her muscles very well. And that only lasted a few hours we consulted with the doctor at the time. So that was the only one I had any real reservations about, but we still went ahead and got it done, but when she was old enough to... I'm against I suppose, having them to young.

Timothy Price: Mm hmm.

Participant 05: And she only had it about, maybe four weeks ago, and she's nearly four. So waited a bit until she got that one.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so can you, like, it sounds like that there was some consideration about whether or not that was a good idea. Did you do. Like, were you talking to the GP about that or is that research you were doing independently that you kind of, when you were deciding whether or not she would receive it, if she would receive it late. You know, where we kind of doing that research?

Participant 05: Independent research so looking online, getting some statistics, but also talking to other parents. And of course we were starting to the measles outbreaks again in the region. So, knowing that I didn't want to get it and of course, my husband's very pro vaccine, he was well up for it. So, it was me that was reserved about it. But we just, when they first contacted, contacted us several, or a few months ago now, and we just delayed it. We just waited until, up until actually just a few weeks ago and took her down. We waited until we were at home full time to watch exactly what happened to her. I felt more comfortable with that then had I done and then put her into nursery and she was with somebody else saying "oh she doesn't look very well" When we we were at home with her we could actually monitor her. I'm glad we did because, like I say, she did have a reaction to it.

Timothy Price: Yeah, so that was that kind of the deciding element was having her home so that you could supervise her more closely? Or do you think it was something were already going to do and that was just the opportunity that arose?

Participant 05: We, I would have done it anyway. I'm just glad I was at home. It was a good opportunity to have it done. When I was, I think, if I'd had it done and I've been at work I probably would have asked me mum to look after her for a couple of days. I might've take her out of nursery just to make sure that in the first 48 hours she was okay. Because the people who know them best will spot any symptoms and would get you straight away if they thought that they were unwell. So I think I would have probably still got it done, but I would have probably got someone to look after her other than the nursery.

Timothy Price: Sure. Was there, you know, was there a thing that made you just you over the edge from "I'm not so sure about this" too "Okay, She'll get the vaccine"? You know, is that, or was that sort of the product of the research that you had been doing and thinking about the vaccine?

Participant 05: No, I just satisfied meself that the risks were low. And of course, she is a bit older now, because three and a half [inaudible] and or again. So we would we would be, it would be very obvious if she should have an adverse reaction to it. But I think being a bit older, she was more able to, her body was more able to cope with it. That was my thoughts on it. So a lot was I just satisfied meself really that the risks were low.

Timothy Price: Yeah so similar to what you had said about the flu vaccine and that you sort of looked at the benefits that it offered. They seemed, you know, pretty substantial. You mentioned, you know, that measles was circulating again and that it kind of worried you but the side effects or the risks were maybe a little higher with the MMR vaccine thane flu vaccine is that sort of how you were thinking? But eventually the benefits outweighed the risks?

Participant 05: Mhmm yes. Yeah.

Timothy Price: So that's great. Thank you for kind of walking me through that. Um, have you had the flu vaccine this year?

Participant 05: Have I had it? Yes, yeah yeah.

Timothy Price: Yeah, and that was, as far as deciding to do that, was because, I think as we were talking earlier you mentioned that you have had the flu and your husband has has had flu. So just not wanting to get the flu.

Participant 05: I didn't want to get it and I've never had a flu vaccine before. But having John, I'm sorry I'm pointing over there, Just knowning John had it a couple years ago. As a family, I just don't want us to get flu. If we can avoid it. I'd rather not have it.

Timothy Price: Mm hmm.

Participant 05: Interestingly John's, the only one in the family who didn't get it. I think I'm just a bit more proactive maybe. Got the kids, got meself done. Just protecting yourself really.

Timothy Price: So that was the last question, but the thing I like to sort of close on. Is there anything about the flu, or about the flu vaccine, or vaccination in general, or just anything that I didn't ask about that you were hoping I would ask about that you want to talk about before we kind of finish things off here.

Participant 05: Um, I don't think so. I think, you know, it's only while I was thinking about the vaccine and an understanding maybe why one got the nasal spray vaccine and the other one got the injection. I have no idea why there was a difference there. And I don't expect you to have an answer to that, but it would just be interesting to find out, you know, why they do that. Because I would have thought all children, maybe would have had the nasal and inhale, inhale it, rather than have a vaccine, but I don't know why they do it that way.

Timothy Price: Yeah, um, you know, I, I don't know the exact answer. I know that.The NHS and Public Health England recommend the injection for children up to including three year olds and younger. And once they get into school they recommend the nasal spray from age four to 16.

Participant 05: Oh, well that explains it.

Timothy Price: Yeah.

Participant 05: Right.

Timothy Price: Thats what it says on the NHS website so, you know, that's kind of all I know about as far as why they have those recommendations and why they have the different kind of vaccine types. I'm not sure.

Participant 05: That was, that was it really that was the only curious point

Timothy Price: Yeah, no, it is, it is interesting, I think, especially when you have to, you know, two children, very close in age and they say to do one thing for one and one thing for the other. I can see that that's strange, to hear that.

Participant 05: And of course it didn't ask the doctor, the nurse at the time did I?

Timothy Price: That's okay. Um, so I'm gonna go ahead and stop the recording.