1450 Internet army : Amigao ( talk ) 21:23, 11 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletion discussions .  Amigao ( talk ) 21:23, 11 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics and Internet .  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 23:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Has a bunch of references on the Chinese article which someone probably needs to go through, and probably more out there as well.  - Indefensible ( talk ) 01:02, 12 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] It is still a significant issue though Sharontse121 ( talk ) 01:08, 12 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] the all sources used in the article are reliable Chinese sources.  You can't say that it is not reliable by saying that it has no WP:RS English sources, this is discrimination Sharontse121 ( talk ) 01:10, 12 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Nobody above had said or implied that sources in languages other than English can't be reliable.  Please avoid straw men and other kinds of misleading claims, see also below.  Regards, HaeB ( talk ) 15:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep No justification as to why the sources used are not reliable.  Sources are not required to be in English.  – Laundry Pizza 03 ( d c̄ ) 15:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete per nom and because alongside other dubious or outright false claims by the article's author, at least some of the references they offered do not support the claims they were cited for.  I spot-checked two of citations in this revision : [4] did not support the claim in the article as written.  [2] actually said pretty much the opposite of what Sharontse121 claimed (Weibo denied that its traffic had dropped, also, the source does not even mention the Wikipedia article's subject).  As for the other sources cited, the burden is on the author to explain why they should be considered WP:REPUTABLE (i.e. having a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy ).  Regards, HaeB ( talk ) 15:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete Per HaeB's reasoning.  Dubious sources and notability.  GuardianH ( talk ) 16:01, 13 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources .  Zhu, Hao 诸皓; Ai, Liang 艾凉 (2022-09-01).  "民进党当局的红人，新冠阳性" [The popular man of the DPP authorities, positive for COVID-19].  Yangtse Evening Post (in Chinese).  Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 .  Retrieved 2023-08-14 .  The article notes: "众所周知，绿营与网军有着千丝万缕的联系。被称作“数位政务委员”的唐凤，则被公认为“1450”网军头目。 ... “1450”系台湾民众对民进党网军的戏称。2019年，有媒体爆料，民进党当局编列1450万元招募人员在社交平台进行“信息实时澄清”工作。长期以来台当局官方豢养网军的谣言被证实。“1450”网军的名号自此不胫而走。近年，这支“编外部队”在搅动台海局势、制造两岸隔阂、抹黑“甩锅”大陆等方面极尽能事。而这一切都离不开“头目”唐凤的“努力”。" From Google Translate: "As we all know, the green battalion and the cyber army are inextricably linked. Tang Feng, known as the "digital political committee member", is recognized as the leader of the "1450" cyber army. ... "1450" is a nickname used by Taiwanese people for the DPP cyber army. In 2019, the media broke the news that the DPP authorities allocated 14.5 million yuan to recruit personnel to carry out "information clarification in real time" on social platforms. For a long time, the rumor that the Taiwan government officially supports the cyber army has been confirmed. The name "1450" cyber army has spread like wildfire since then. In recent years, this "non-staff force" has done its best to stir up the situation in the Taiwan Strait, create barriers between the two sides of the Strait, and discredit the "dumping pot" of the mainland. And all of this is inseparable from the "effort" of the "leader" Tang Feng."  Ren, Chengqi 任成琦 (2022-04-25).  Liu, 劉潔妍; Yan, 燕勐 (eds.).  "造謠抹黑離間兩岸 網暴霸凌打壓異己 民進黨豢養"1450"作惡多端" [Spreading rumors to smear the two sides of the strait, cyberbullying and bullying to suppress dissidents. The DPP feeds "1450" to do all kinds of evil].  People's Daily (in Chinese).  Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 .  Retrieved 2023-08-14 .  The article notes: "“1450”是外界對民進黨網軍的戲稱。2019年3月，民進黨當局農業主管部門有一項“加強農業訊息因應對策計劃”，... “1450=民進黨網軍”的說法由此而生。 “1450”肩負雙重“使命”。一是與民進黨當局呼應配合，給綠營出台的政策背書，瘋狂打壓國民黨、民眾黨等競爭對手﹔二是抹黑大陸的社會經濟、惠台政策，就港澳和新疆事務造謠生事。在香港“修例風波”中，處處都有“1450”的幕后黑影。" From Google Translate: ""1450" is the outside world's nickname for the DPP cyber army.  In March 2019, the DPP authority's agricultural department had a "Strengthen Agricultural Information Response Plan", and the saying "1450=DPP cyber army" was born from this.  "1450" shoulders a double "mission".  The first is to cooperate with the DPP authorities, endorse the policies issued by the green camp, and frantically suppress competitors such as the Kuomintang and the People's Party; In Hong Kong's "revision storm", there are shadows behind the scenes of "1450" everywhere. " Yang, Jiaying 楊佳穎; Zhang, Lixun 張立勳 (2019-05-11). "1450…網軍新代名詞" [1450... A new synonym for cyber army]. China Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "今年「加強農業訊息因應對策計畫」編1450萬元對外招標，聘請人員做政策行銷、輿情處理，遭質疑「養網軍」，引發議論。 儘管農委會主委陳吉仲上火線澄清，如今「1450」仍儼然成網友口中「網軍」新代名詞。 ... 不過，此案掀波後，也讓「1450」成「網軍」代名詞。 藍委林奕華日前在農產品產銷失衡記者會直言，農委會最紅代名詞變「1450」，..."  From Google Translate: "This year's "Strengthening the Agricultural Information Response Plan" compiled 14.5 million yuan for external bidding, and hired personnel to do policy marketing and public opinion handling.  It was questioned about "raising the Internet Army" and sparked discussion.  Although Chen Jizhong, chairman of the Council of Agriculture, went to the fire line to clarify, "1450" still seems to have become a new synonym for "net army" among netizens.  ...  However, after the case broke out, "1450" became synonymous with "net army".  Lin Yihua, the Blue Committee, said bluntly at the press conference on the imbalance between agricultural production and sales a few days ago that the most popular pronoun of the Council of Agriculture has changed to "1450". " Chen, Yiwen 陳怡文 (2023-03-16). "誕網軍稱號！ 農委會遇問題只解釋不解決　陳吉仲：若有1450怎連解釋都沒做好" [Birthday net army title! The Council of Agriculture only explains but does not solve problems. Chen Jizhong: If there is 1450, why didn’t they even explain it well?]. Nextapple News [ zh ] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "農委會主委陳吉仲今接受媒體專訪，被問題農產行銷中與1450(網軍)界線，及網友留言稱農委會光是解釋沒有解決農業問題，他坦言是他的問題，因做100件事也沒想對外說1件，只想去解決問題，而解釋是他最該改善的地方，畢竟外界認為有1450，可是有1450怎麼會變成連解釋都沒有做好。 " From Google Translate: "Chen Jizhong, the chairman of the Council of Agriculture, accepted an exclusive interview with the media.  He was questioned about the boundary between the marketing of agricultural products and 1450 (net army), and netizens left messages saying that the Council of Agriculture’s mere explanation did not solve agricultural problems.  He admitted frankly It's his problem, because he did 100 things and didn't want to say 1 to the outside world, he just wanted to solve the problem, and the explanation is what he should improve the most.  After all, the outside world thinks that there are 1450, but how can there be 1450?  Not done well. " Guo, Qiongli 郭瓊俐 (2020-09-03). "【春露專訪】1450網軍始祖現身：我就是風，何必帶風向？ " [[Chunlu Interview] The ancestor of the 1450 Internet Army appeared: I am the wind, why should I bring the direction of the wind?]. Business Today [ zh ] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "國民黨前立委陳宜民去年爆料，農委會「108年度加強農業訊息因應對策計畫」，編列1450萬元養網軍，而先前得標廠商「春露」、「樂齊」兩家公司是同一批人，春露公司因此被冠上「1450網軍始祖」的封號。 今年8月，媒體再踢爆，春露公司淡出農委會，「轉進」台鐵，兩度得標台鐵局標案，春露公司的神祕色彩，再度引發各界好奇。 " From Google Translate: "Chen Yimin, a former legislator of the Kuomintang, broke the news last year that the Council of Agriculture's "108 Year Strengthening Agricultural Information Response Plan" compiled 14.5 million yuan to support the Internet army, and the two companies "Chunlu" and "Leqi" that had previously won the bid were the same Because of this batch of people, Chunlu Company was given the title of "the ancestor of the 1450 cyber army".  In August of this year, the media broke out again.  Chunlu Company faded out of the Council of Agriculture and "transferred" to Taiwan Railways. " Zhao, Youning 趙宥寧 (2019-05-06). "1450的網軍暗黑兵團？ 羅智強再揭「假韓粉」網軍的3大特點" [1450's dark corps of cyber army? Luo Zhiqiang reveals the 3 major characteristics of the "fake Han fan" online army]. The Storm Media [ zh ] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "羅智強今再分析，這群「賴清德認證的1450網軍」現已兵分兩路，其中「大野狼軍團」正面直攻韓國瑜、郭台銘；而另一邊「小癟三軍團」則偽裝韓粉，全面分化藍營，猛攻趙少康、唐湘龍、李艷秋等意見領袖，為韓國瑜樹敵。 " From Google Translate: "According to Luo Zhiqiang's further analysis, this group of "1450 Internet Army certified by Lai Qingde" has been divided into two groups.  Among them, the "Big Wild Wolf Army" directly attacked Han Guoyu and Guo Taiming; Fully divide the blue camp, attack Zhao Shaokang, Tang Xianglong, Li Yanqiu and other opinion leaders, and make enemies for Han Guoyu. " Fu, Shihan 傅詩涵 (2020-03-16). "農委會又養網軍？　 1450標案公司再度得標" [The Council of Agriculture raises an Internet army again? The 1450 bidding company won the bid again] (in Chinese). TVBS . Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "去年大選期間，國民黨立委質疑農委會養網軍，因此產生網軍叫1450的說法，當時得標的公司，今年一月底再度標下農委會828萬元網路行銷的標案，再度引發話題。 " From Google Translate: "During last year’s general election, the KMT’s legislators questioned the COA’s support for the Internet Army, which led to the idea that the Internet Army was called 1450.  The company that won the bid at the time bid again at the end of January this year for the COA’s 8.28 million yuan network marketing bid, which once again triggered topic. " Zhang, Yajing 张亚静 (2022-05-09). "华视被爆卷入"1450网军"风波？ 民进党操纵媒体绿出新高度！ " [China TV was involved in the "1450 Internet Army" storm? The DPP manipulates the media to reach new heights!]. taiwan.cn [ zh ] (in Chinese). Taiwan Affairs Office . Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "民进党当局拿着台湾民众的纳税钱豢养网军早已成为“公开的秘密”，而台农业主管部门正是“1450网军”代名词的始作俑者。 2019年，该部门编列1450万元新台币预算，拟在岛内网络论坛等社交平台发布信息，被民代质疑是在招募网络水军。 “1450=民进党网军”的说法由此而生。 " From Google Translate: "It has long been an "open secret" for the DPP authorities to use the tax money of the Taiwanese people to feed the cyber army, and Taiwan's agricultural authorities are the initiators of the term "1450 Internet Army".  In 2019, the department prepared a budget of 14.5 million NT dollars and planned to release information on social platforms such as online forums on the island.  It was questioned by the Democratic Party that it was recruiting cyber trolls.  The saying "1450=DPP Cyber Army" was born from this. " Less significant coverage: "Taiwan Election: One Day Out" . Stanford Internet Observatory . 2020-01-20. Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "Most recently, the New Party (politically close to the KMT) live-streamed a KMT press conference discussing Wang Liqiang on YouTube and Facebook.  During the livestream, live chat was deactivated, but before it was, several commentators decried the “1450” (alleged DPP cyber army, which Han Kuo-yu supporter call “1450”) for “being at work”.  Many comments were written in simplified characters, which are used in the PRC Mainland but not in Taiwan. " Yun, Chen; Chung, Jake (2021-03-06). "Jaw vows to train Internet celebrities" . Taipei Times . Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "Jaw, a Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) member, said that the Democratic Progressive Party’s (DPP) fears regarding China’s influence via the Internet has been exaggerated, and the DPP has proven itself adept at using the Internet to influence others, citing the “1450” controversy.  The term “1450” — derived from a situation in 2019 in which the Council of Agriculture budgeted NT$14.5 million (US$512,802 at the current exchange rate) to hire four online content curators — has been used to sarcastically describe netizens allegedly paid by the DPP to criticize its opponents online.  ...  Training content creators would provide them with a source of income, although the proposal is not aimed at “1450” influencers, he said. " Wang, Meiqin (Fall 2022). "Mass Burial: A Case of Artivism in Taiwan" . Field (22). ISSN 2694-0094 . Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "As a matter of fact, citizens voicing critiques toward government policies tend to be verbally attacked by the DPP government-supported “internet navy” or “online army,” known as “1450,” who have been employed to misinform the public by smearing the reputations of social, cultural, and environmental activists who raised their concerns publicly. [5] ...  The “1450” army has been waging intensive media attacks on individuals who expressed doubt or critique in public about the government’s control over the interpretation of the pandemic or policies implemented to prevent its spread. [7]" Lin, Yuting 林郁庭 (2020-04-22). "敦睦艦隊防疫出包！ 馬英九cue蔡英文道歉 網曝1450想法" [Dunmu Fleet's pandemic prevention package! Ma Ying-jeou cue Tsai Ing-wen apologizes, net exposure 1450 thoughts]. China Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2023-08-14 . Retrieved 2023-08-14 . The article notes: "馬英九此話一出，引起網友們熱議，許多留言中可一窺1450又要如何護航。 " From Google Translate: "As soon as Ma Ying-jeou's words came out, netizens heatedly discussed, and many comments gave a glimpse of how 1450 will escort. " There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow 1450 Internet army ( traditional Chinese : 1450網軍 ; simplified Chinese : 1450网军 ) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline , which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".  Cunard ( talk ) 07:00, 14 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Relisting comment: Could we get a review of at least some of the sources recently discovered?  Even better if a few could find their way into the article.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, L iz Read!  Talk!  22:21, 18 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep : Cunard's Chinese sources, according to the translated excerpts he posted, seem to be SIRS .  C LYDE TALK TO ME / STUFF DONE 00:41, 19 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep .  Checking a few of Cunard's sources confirms this definitely meets WP:GNG .  I also believe it meets WP:ORG , however I don't think that would be strictly required for a perceived organization.  — siro χ o 02:04, 19 August 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: keep