Jun Kazama : But, that's it.  Failing WP:SIGCOV .  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 22:43, 12 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions .  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 22:43, 12 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions .  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 22:43, 12 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge to List of Tekken characters .  No SIGCOV.  QuicoleJR ( talk ) 23:41, 12 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge to List of Tekken characters - "GamesRadar also listed Jun as one of the top ten gaming "MILFs" in 2008."  The reception is an embarrassment for Wikipedia.  I really want to see people step up and defend that little nugget of wisdom.  Appears a lot in gaming magazines, but all mentions are trivial; lacks WP:SIGCOV from secondary sources.  Wikipedia is not FANDOM.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ ) 04:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Removed.  Good heavens, talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel and then some.  sixty nine • whaddya want?  • 08:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge to List of Tekken characters .  I did a search for additional sources and only came up with additional passing mentions here -- nothing meets SIGCOV.  Nomader ( talk ) 13:15, 13 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] This could count as SIGCOV - beyond that, however, there is not much to speak of.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ ) 22:37, 14 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] * Oppose With the reveal of Tekken 8, Jun suddenly became surprisingly popular for returning to the series canonically.  I noticed there were several articles where she was the big highlight of the writers and how it was reflected on the Tekken fanbase, so I added them to reception.  It also helps that most of the other sources discuss how popular Jun is in general to the point that ex-Capcom developer Yoshinori Ono discusses her popularity.  Tintor2 ( talk ) 15:51, 16 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge and my position on this is strengthened by the sources that Tintor2 just added.  A mass of routine trailer coverage that barely says anything about the character was added, if that's the best that could be found....  Pushsquare's commentary amounted to "looks pretty damn cool", and none of the rest were much better.  Disclosure, Tintor mentioned trying to save this article on Discord, and I ended up here after reviewing.  -- ferret ( talk ) 19:17, 16 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep : I was debating on this one for a while.  But with the coverage Tintor2 added, I see some decent discussion here.  Jun has coverage from CBR that can also be used.  Plus, Jun is only now making her grand return in the mainline Tekken series with Tekken 8, so maybe she'll get even more coverage in the coming months?  Also, the article is not only covering Jun, but also her alter-ego Unknown.  Could Unknown have anything as well?  I'll have to look.  MoonJet ( talk ) 03:29, 17 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Then that case will be WP:TOOSOON + CBR is not used for notability since its a weak source.  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 03:48, 17 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Current consensus seems to be the CBR can be used for notability, which notes that only listicles from there don't count towards notability.  As for WP:TOOSOON , that's more of a case for something that doesn't have the coverage yet.  What I was arguing it that maybe she'll get even more coverage.  MoonJet ( talk ) 04:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Umm, no.  Not only listicles.  But that's just your opinion.  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 04:26, 17 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The actual discussion on the site linked to does mention "Content", not just listicles.  I tend to agree.  The article in question discussing her, like most of their output, is mostly (parrot a bunch of lore) "Wow, this could be big!" without saying much of substance, to the point it could be written by AI and nobody would notice.  While it should be citeable for information, it shouldn't be indicative the character is important.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ ) 05:53, 17 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] It appears cbr is not that useful as a source.  I have used listicles before but reworded like "This character stands out for his sex appeal" but in depth analysys are harder to obtain.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tintor2 ( talk • contribs ) 13:33, 17 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment : I've added even more coverage to the article, GlatorNator .  What do you think?  MoonJet ( talk ) 02:41, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] You just added only her 2 appearances.  Nothing else.  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 04:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] But I've cited sources discussing her too.  That's where I was trying to get it here.  MoonJet ( talk ) 04:44, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Eh.  It was just CBR.  Still not yet notable.  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 04:55, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] User:GlatorNator , If you looked, I did not add CBR.  I added Siliconera , Giant Freakin Robot (they seem reliable) and The Outer Haven .  I did link to CBR in here, but haven't added it to the actual article.  MoonJet ( talk ) 06:35, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Still, not yet enough.  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 07:04, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I would debate the idea that "Giant Freakin Robot" is reliable.  I have seen total inaccuracies there before.  It is not reliable.  The Outer Haven is a WP:BLOG .  Siliconera is an announcement, of which there are many, for most characters, but does not go indepth.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ ) 13:25, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Giant Freakin Robot has been used for several other reliable publications, such as CNN, The New York Times, USA Today, Variety, LA Times, The Guardian, IGN, among others.  That's always a good sign for reliability.  As for The Outer Haven, they have a fact-checking policy , and have been credited by places like IGN and Destructoid.  MoonJet ( talk ) 02:30, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Siliconera says nothing but "Revealed for Tekken 8!" again, rehashing the minor detail of not appearing officially since 2.  GFR is the same beyond tacking on "confirmed fan theories she was alive!".  The Outer Haven doesn't look reliable to me and the article is full of typos and grammar issues, and boils down to plot restatement, with no commentary at all about Jun.  Can we seriously stop pretending that adding the routine "Announced for Tekken 8" detail from multiple sources shows sigcov?  -- ferret ( talk ) 13:40, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] And that reason has been used again below.  Probably went here after this [22] .  I bet closing this afd could be a bit controversial again to him because of [23] [24] .  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 22:59, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep Some references have been founded [25] .  https://en.as.com/meristation/2023/03/29/news/1680046328_080539.html Tekken 8 shows off Jun Kazama and proves nothing is stronger than a mother’s love Tekken 8’s newest trailer shines a light on Jun Kazama, Jin’s mother who we haven’t seen since her debut all the way back in Tekken 2.  Now she’s back and ready for a fight.  and Bandai Namco themselves said it: “Love is a mother's most powerful weapon.” .   This source also shows a video of her character in the game.    That and the other coverage already mentioned convinces me the character is notable enough.   The Reception section of the article shows there is enough to write about her to have an article.  D r e a m Focus 21:51, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] This is just another routine trailer coverage just like Pushsquare's commentary "looks pretty damn cool" + Meristation is not reliable nor is situational.  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 22:40, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Meristation is indeed reliable, see WP:VG/S and use CTRL+F.  Not SIGCOV tho, just a press release regurgitation.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ ) 08:00, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Oopsie, wasn't familiar with that I guess.  GlatorNator ( ᴛ ) 09:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Relisting comment: The initial trend towards merge was replaced by a trend towards keeping, but there doesn't appear to be a consensus either way at this point; further discussion would be helpful in determining a consensus.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, Aoidh ( talk ) 07:44, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge with List of Tekken characters : I see a lot of sources thrown around here, but very few of them appear to be actually about the character, generally constituting brief mentions, entries in lists of characters, or "character announced as playable/may be playable" with little substance to the commentary on the character.  The few that are about the character seem to constitute a reiteration of game plot and little else.  There is no evidence of cultural impact or coverage of the character's real world creation.  The "Design and gameplay" section boils down to a bloated but ultimately pedestrian video game manual description of the character's physical attributes, personal history, and combat abilities.  The "Reception" section is a lot of fluff that amounts to "a lot of people sure do enjoy playing as this character in the video game".  The "Unknown" section is simply pure GAMECRUFT .  All in all, I see no justification for this as a standalone Wikipedia article, and no reason why it can't be cut down and merged.  silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) ( inquire within ) 15:01, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge to the character list.  Tintor2 ( talk ) 19:26, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge to the Tekken character list.  Her design section is overlong and I second that the "Unknown" section is all cruft.  Game appearances section is adequate and can easily be condensed into the character list.  The only reception content of any relevance may be the Common Sense mention, while the rest are pedestrian rankings and people wishing she was playable (I loved the irony of all the fan requests for her inclusion in TTT2 and then her only being the 21st-most used character in the game), which  might have met SIGCOV requirements long ago but not now as VG notability evolves.  A fairly easy call.  sixty nine • whaddya want?  • 23:15, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Unfortunately, finding coverage for Unknown is extremely difficult, since the searches think you're referring to the actual word "unknown."  Even if you try adding "Tekken" or "Tekken Tag Tournament" in your search.  I've been looking pretty hard.  MoonJet ( talk ) 11:12, 21 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge to the character list, per WP:PRESERVE .  Shooterwalker ( talk ) 21:58, 21 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge .  I looked at sources, and the best we have are few paragraphs here and here (feel free to ping me and point out better sources).  Despite mentioning the character in their titles, they are both short and I don't think they even meet WP:SIGCOV here; they contain just a few factoids and zero analysis of the character's importance outside the game.  -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | reply here 04:59, 22 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: merge