Dysard Dageago : Fails notability guidelines and never won a medal.  disproven by Habst – he did win a medal in the Micronesian games Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 23:07, 7 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople , Olympics ,  and Oceania .  Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 23:07, 7 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep , thank you for nominating the article because it gives us a chance to improve it.  In addition to the prose-based, non-database coverage in The Guardian already cited, I added a source that Dageago won a second international medal at the 2018 Micronesian Championships, in addition to his bronze from 2016.  The assertion that he "never won a medal" is not true, he won at least two international medals which satisfies WP:NATH .  -- Habst ( talk ) 09:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Where is the SIGCOV? The Guardian mentions him in passing, which explicitly does not fulfill SIGCOV. Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 15:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] You added a facebook picture he's tagged in as a ref, come on! JoelleJay ( talk ) 22:22, 8 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ JoelleJay , thank you for your comment. What the Facebook source establishes is verifiability . WP:Verifiability is a policy; WP:Notability is a guideline. In the mean time, I have added a PDF source that says the same information I was able to find. -- Habst ( talk ) 01:25, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] The facebook post most certainly does not establish verifiability, which requires a source be reliable .  Some random person's facebook picture that happens to tag what may be Dysard Dageago's personal profile in it is an unreliable SPS, and frankly I am astounded someone with autopatrolled perms would not only think this BLP violation was acceptable but would also add the ref back in after it was removed!  I have again deleted this link.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 03:17, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ JoelleJay , thank you for helping to scrutinize the sources because it makes the article better.  As there is a separate PDF source confirming the same fact now, the Facebook photo is no longer necessary.  The tag isn't helpful in this case, the photo (or in this case the document published by Athletics Oceania ) of the results is what is most helpful.  Because it was published by Dageago on his own account, I think it would fall under the WP:ABOUTSELF policy, which allows Facebook links for uncontroversial statements about oneself such as the medal -- which has since been backed up by the official results anyways. -- Habst ( talk ) 13:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] BLP would actually likely oppose it based on the discussion so far – an olympic medal is most certainly an extraordinary claim which should not be relied upon using Facebook.  Use BLP only for a claim on the level of "Taylor Swift is a fan of Tom Holland movies".  Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 15:17, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ InvadingInvader , thank you for commenting.  I wholly agree about your scenario, but it does not describe the scenario being discussed right now.  Dageago is not making any claim as to an "Olympic medal", but a Micronesian Athletics Championships medal, which would be not extraordinary for a Micronesian professional sportsperson to have.  The discussion is moot anyways, because a non-Facebook source was found.  -- Habst ( talk ) 16:38, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Ok so he won that medal.  Can you find any non-database SIGCOV that doesn't mention him in passing?  And did he do anything else that was notable?  Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 17:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] The photos do not appear to have been published by Dageago but rather by a different person, who has tagged Dageago.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 19:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ JoelleJay , thank you for responding.  Yes, but then Dageago published the collection on his page, where I found it, so ABOUTSELF would apply.  We have already found another source substantiating the same claim, so it is a moot point anyways.  What do you think about the coverage in The Telegraph I found?  I was wondering if you could try to find the original video, as it might have even more expansive coverage of Dageago.  -- Habst ( talk ) 20:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Again, this is Dageago mentioned in passing . This ain't SIGCOV buddy. Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 21:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ InvadingInvader , thank you for clarifying. Considering the passage in The Telegraph is a summary of a video, don't you think the original video might have significant coverage of Dageago? I don't think we should make a deletion decision until at least we can find the footage describing Dageago that we already know exists. -- Habst ( talk ) 21:17, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I do NOT think that the video will have coverage of Dageago.  If the transcript is representative of the entire ordeal, and Dageago is only mentioned once, it is reasonable to say by socratic method that the video will not prominently cover Dageago at all aside from maybe a single shot saying who he is and he's running a race.  That is not enough SIGCOV to justify the retention of this article at all.  Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 21:19, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ InvadingInvader , thank you for replying.  I don't think that " transcript " accurately represents Telegraph source -- it is not a transcript, but a live blog only pointing out selected snippets. And if that is true, could you help find the video to verify that anyways? The athletes deserve us making our best attempt to find significant coverage, and it would helpful to rule that out as a source so we could focus on finding other media -- perhaps some coverage from KSPN2 News exists as well.  -- Habst ( talk ) 21:25, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Considering this video would almost certainly be a primary source anyway, on top of not containing anything on Dageago, tracking it down would be a waste of time. JoelleJay ( talk ) 22:45, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ JoelleJay , thank you for responding. I don't think the video would necessarily be a primary source, it seems the presenters are journalists for the BBC covering the championships which Dageago participated in. There is also the possibility of other outlets picking it up as well. I still think our best shot is for local Nauran coverage, but we should definitely turn all stones before making a deletion decision. -- Habst ( talk ) 23:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Live coverage of an event is primary.  There is nothing whatsoever to indicate Dageago received secondary SIGCOV anywhere.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 23:31, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ JoelleJay , thank you for responding.  We are looking for non-live, secondary, significant coverage, either of Dageago's World Championships performance or of his two Micronesian medals, or of something else entirely.  A news report by KSPN2 News might fulfill that, or a report on his WC appearance.  Especially given that we know coverage on at least one of these exists (because there is a report of it in The Daily Telegraph ), I think it is incumbent upon us to find that coverage, and then we can assess its usefulness to the article.  -- Habst ( talk ) 23:36, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] It doesn't look like such coverage exists.  It's going to take a miracle for us to save this article.  Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 04:15, 10 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Also Habst, consider re-reading BLP.  It's definitely a struggle to edit these articles – something I know first hand.  Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 04:17, 10 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] If Dageago published the collection on his page, then why is the link to another person's facebook post?  You cannot do that.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 22:42, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ JoelleJay , thank you for responding.  I am not sure if there is a way to show the posting on Dageago's profile in a way that is compatible with {{ Facebook }} , but it is there on his page.  The reason why I copied the link was to verify Dageago's medal at the 2018 Micronesian Championships, which has now been corroborated by another official source anyways, and there is no Facebook link in the article any more which I agree with.  I think that the more important discussion we should be having is about the notability of Dageago and his suitability for a Wikipedia article.  -- Habst ( talk ) 23:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Which based on the lack of SIGCOV we've found, he ain't got no notability.  Invading Invader ( userpage , talk ) 15:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete .  Zero SIGCOV, not even a full sentence on him anywhere.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 22:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Micronesian Championships is not a "major international competition".  It's both small-scale and certainly less prestigious than the Asian Games.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 22:31, 8 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ JoelleJay , thank you for your response.  The Micronesian Championships are an international championship that receives TV and print coverage -- for an example of how the 2018 Micronesian Championships was covered, see this video .  The results show that events have several rounds to qualify for the finals, as mentioned in WP:NATH point #1.  Understanding that in small countries like these, a lot of information can shared off-internet, I think that video shows that there may be some specific coverage of Dageago to be found about his championship performance.  What do you think?  -- Habst ( talk ) 01:28, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] None of that makes this a major senior-level international competition.  The Asian Games isn't even prestigious enough to warrant inclusion for medalists, it only gets into the criterion though its large field.  The Micronesian Championships isn't notable enough for its own page, it's just listed as one of the "regional championships" within Oceania Athletics, so definitely doesn't qualify for NATH1.  There is zero evidence to presume any secondary SIGCOV exists.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 03:01, 9 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, L iz Read!  Talk!  21:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete : One mention in a RS that I see, [6] , rest are photo captions.  No sort of coverage about this person.  Oaktree b ( talk ) 23:25, 14 January 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: delete