Worcester Preparatory School : AusLondonder ( talk ) 18:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Organizations , Schools ,  and Maryland .  AusLondonder ( talk ) 18:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions .  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:11, 8 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, Hey man im josh ( talk ) 18:31, 11 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep .  Seems to be enough sourcing available to meet WP:GNG .  -- Necrothesp ( talk ) 10:51, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] The only source in the article is this one [46] which is simply a directory listing. What sourcing have you found that suggests this meets GNG? Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk ) 11:50, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Have you even checked the article? A comment like this on an article like this simply discredits you. AusLondonder ( talk ) 13:36, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] So you think that AfD comments should only be based on what's already in the article? This, I'm afraid, shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Wikipedia. -- Necrothesp ( talk ) 16:18, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Necrothesp : Please provide the sources you think demonstrate WP:N .  microbiology Marcus [ petri dish · growths ] 16:24, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] This is pretty good.  Plenty of more minor references.  I'm sure others can find more.  -- Necrothesp ( talk ) 17:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] No, I didn't say that. But simply asserting sources exist without proof , particularly with a wholly unsourced article in question, shows a fundamental misunderstanding of AfD. AusLondonder ( talk ) 18:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] This, I'm afraid, shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Wikipedia. No, I think an argument that GNG is met should be based on some evidence. You will note I specifically asked you "What sourcing have you found that suggests this meets GNG?" (My emphasis). Stating it is met without evidence is not helpful at AfD, and I know you are very experienced with AfD and know how this process works. Thank you for now providing one of your sources. I'll review that. But, of course, GNG requires significant coverage in multiple independent reliable secondary sources. So are there any others? I could look myself, of course, and I will. But if you are saying GNG is met, and if you can present your evidence, that could save a lot of duplication of effort. Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk ) 20:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I have now read the Dispatch source above and also looked into who The Dispatch are. The article itself has some very good significant coverage. The most important aspect of finding sources is in showing that an article can be written, and there is plenty of information in that article that could be used to write our article, so on that score it is excellent. On reliability, I think it is good too. It's a newspaper account, but although we only have their word for what we are being told, it has gone through editorial review, and is clearly based on an interview with the headmaster. The interview aspect presents a problem with independence, but it is not a verbatim interview, and this source would be quite acceptable if used carefully alongside other sources. It is reporting in a newspaper, based on that interview, and contains a mixture of primary and secondary sourced information. So yes, useful for an article, but what it does not prove is notability (which is why we need multiple sources). The piece is published in a paper that is online and traditional paper based for the local area. They have 700 subscribers and serve "Ocean City, West Ocean City, Berlin, Ocean Pines, Fenwick Island and Bethany Beach area since 1984". A local newspaper writing an article about a local school does not demonstrate that the school is notable. At least, not on its own. I'd accept this as one source towards GNG (although strictly it would fail WP:NCORP , but I think that would be overly restrictive for a school). We need a bit more though. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk ) 08:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Note that my comment was based on the snide comment by AusLondonder Have you even checked the article? A comment like this on an article like this simply discredits you , which certainly implied that only what was already in the article was relevant to an AfD discussion and was verging on a personal attack. -- Necrothesp ( talk ) 10:38, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Analysing other editors comments at AfD and the rationale for them is a long way from a personal attack.  If you are suggesting keeping a previously unsourced article then it is common sense to share the sources you locate so they can be discussed and analysed by editors.  AusLondonder ( talk ) 12:37, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Comments like A comment like this on an article like this simply discredits you are certainly very close to a personal attack.  Don't really see how you can deny that.  I am not "discredited" by expressing my honest opinion just because you don't happen to agree with it.  Just don't make comments like that about other editors and we'll all be happy.  -- Necrothesp ( talk ) 14:27, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Expressing an opinion without evidence at AfD is discrediting on anyone. "Reasonable editors will often disagree, but valid arguments will be given more weight than unsupported statements."  I might add that suggesting a competence issue on my part (This, I'm afraid, shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Wikipedia) is a far more serious personal attack. AusLondonder ( talk ) 14:40, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I refer you to my previous comment about implying that the current state of the article was all that mattered. I'm sorry if that was not your intent, but it's certainly what it looked like. -- Necrothesp ( talk ) 14:49, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete - was unable to find in-depth coverage from secondary sources suitable to pass NCOPR or GNG.  There's a U.S. News & World Report entry but just a listing, doesn't count for establishing N. An nces.ed.gov entry as well.  The only things that I have found that aren't catalogue entries are Worcester Preparatory School Coastal Style that feels like WP:CHURNALISM is literally an ad , and this Worcester Preparatory School Private School Review that won't load on my current connection is another catalogue listing .  microbiology Marcus [ petri dish · growths ] 15:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment I see the one source above, it didn't turn up in my BEFORE search so I appreciate Necrothesp linking it here.  It doesn't, however, move the needle for me in my concerns for WP:N .  But I would happily reconsider if others, as mentioned, can find more.  microbiology Marcus [ petri dish · growths ] 18:39, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Agree, it's a hyper-local source, for which caution is needed per WP:AUD and the tone gives the impression of a puff piece with North Korean quotes like "has become a pristine landmark of high quality education in the community" and "WPS can boast staggering academic achievements".  Additionally, half of the article is just quotes from the headmaster about what a wonderful school it is.  AusLondonder ( talk ) 19:01, 15 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep This source [47] is a paper in partial fulfillment of a Ph.D. studying the education of social skills based on a programme at this school.  Seems like an excellent source to me.  Then there is lots of local news coverage such as [48] which is rather unfortunate for being regionally restricted content but I used a VPN to verify that it is about the school, although somewhat local.  In fact there are thousands of hits in Newspapers online in local newspapers, particularly the Salisbury Maryland Daily Times.  These are primary and mostly events announcements although there are the usual reports of pupil achievments and the like.  The newspaper coverage does not meet GNG in itself, but it does show this is an active school with a high local profile.  Additionally this paper [49] is about Wikipedia use in research and perceptions in secondary schools.  One of the authors is a librarian at this school, and so although not directly referenced, it is clear that the school itself has influenced that paper.  The local newspaper write up presented by Necrothesp does not meet GNG on its own, but provides something to build the article on.  There is a suitably large enrollment and the school has been in operation for over 50 years.  The Ph.D. thesis, to my mind, pulls this across the line for notability.  Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk ) 08:40, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Appreciate your work in looking for sources.  My only thought is that generally a thesis in this context is effectively a primary source, see WP:SCHOLARSHIP .  AusLondonder ( talk ) 14:45, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Yes, it is primary for the thesis, which includes the design of the 4th grade social skills curriculum at Worcester, but the introduction and background, especially pages 1-6 are secondary.  Other information in there is also secondary.  We cannot use the thesis as secondary sourcing for the thesis being made itself - as clearly this is the primary source for the thesis - but in this case this work contains significant background information about the school and its programme.  So I think this one definitely counts towards GNG.  Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk ) 15:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, L iz Read!  Talk!  21:20, 18 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, The Herald (Benison) ( talk ) 01:58, 26 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources .  The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Schools , which says: All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must either satisfy the notability guidelines for organizations , the general notability guideline , or both.  For-profit educational organizations and institutions are considered commercial organizations and must satisfy those criteria.  (See also WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES )  Sources Russo, Brian (2015-12-10).  "Tradition, Technology Meet At Worcester Prep" .  Maryland Coast Dispatch .  Archived from the original on 2024-03-15 .  Retrieved 2024-03-27 .  The article notes: "In 1970, Dr. Barry Tull was a young public school teacher who decided to take a chance on a little private school in Berlin. He’s been at Worcester Preparatory School (WPS) ever since and is marking his 30th year as headmaster. In its 45-year history, the school has had just two headmasters with the other being founding Headmaster Franklin Lynch. ... Today, WPS has more than quadrupled in size, amassing almost 550 students from pre-kindergarten to 12th grade, and its campus on the south end of Berlin’s Main Street has grown to 45 acres and has become a pristine landmark of high quality education in the community. ... While WPS can boast staggering academic achievements, the cost of that education is something that can stop many families from even considering sending their children there. " Bunting, Tia Wheatley (2009).  Development and evaluation of a technology integrated social skills curriculum (PhD thesis).  University of Delaware .  ProQuest 304870880 .  The thesis says the approvers are: Kathleen M. Minke, Ph.D.  Acting Director, School of Education Michael Gamel-McCormick, Ph.D.  Interim Dean of the College of Human Services, Education and Public Policy Debra Hess Norris, M.S. Vice Provost for Graduate and Professional Education Wikipedia:Reliable sources#Scholarship says: * Dissertations – Completed dissertations or theses written as part of the requirements for a doctorate, and which are publicly available (most via interlibrary loan or from Proquest), can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources.  Some of them will have gone through a process of academic peer reviewing, of varying levels of rigor, but some will not.  If possible, use theses that have been cited in the literature; supervised by recognized specialists in the field; or reviewed by independent parties.  Dissertations in progress have not been vetted and are not regarded as published and are thus not reliable sources as a rule.  Some theses are later published in the form of scholarly monographs or peer reviewed articles, and, if available, these are usually preferable to the original thesis as sources.  Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence.  I agree with Sirfurboy regarding the primary and secondary source analysis.  I consider this thesis to be sufficiently reliable as it was reviewed and approved by three senior leaders at the University of Delaware (the guideline mentions "supervised by recognized specialists in the field" as contributing to reliability).  The thesis notes on pages 1–2: "Worcester Preparatory School is a private coed preparatory day school. The campus is located on the Eastern Shore of Maryland in the town of Berlin. More than 500 students from Preschool through Grade 12 attend Worcester Preparatory School. The students come from all over Maryland, Delaware, and Virginia. The school is known for high academic standards and preparation for college. ... The teaching of social skills begins in the second grade at Worcester. Second-grade students complete a course called Manners, which includes introductions, telephone manners, how to treat a guest and be a guest, writing invitations and thank-you notes, and table manners. This is a classroom course taught by the second-grade social studies teacher. In addition, Worcester Preparatory School wants a social skills curriculum for the fourth grade, which consists of two classes of eighteen students, for a total of thirty-six students, diversified in gender and race. The fourth-grade faculty at Worcester wants the social skills curriculum to include table etiquette, cell phone etiquette, Internet etiquette (netiquette), social etiquette, and appearance. The faculty wants technology incorporated into the course."</ref> "New center in use as school's 20th year begins" .  The Daily Times .  1990-02-21.  Archived from the original on 2024-03-27 .  Retrieved 2024-03-27 – via Newspapers.com .  The article notes: "There's a new million-dollar Athletic and Performing Arts Center at the Worcester Country School in Berlin. The building is part of the independent school's 20th anniversary celebration and is already in use for indoor sports activities, parent meetings, class sessions and dramatic and musical productions. This building, however, is not the only news at the preschool-through-grade 12 school. ... One of the Worcester Country School teachers was named the top middle school science teacher in the nation by the National Science Teachers' Association; two of the teachers have received commendations from Gov. William Donald Schaefer; several have been honored by computer and software companies; and, the students are continually being recognized for excellence in mathematics, essay writing, community service and computer use. In the past year, WCS teachers received two national awards, and students were honored by Center Stage for play writing, the Daughters of the American Revolution and the American Legion for essay writing, Apple Computer Inc. for community service, the Computer Learning Foundation for a student novel and by the Math Counts competition in Annapolis for having for the highest scoring math team in the region." "Reagan To Honor Worcester Dean" .  The Daily Times .  1988-06-23.  Archived from the original on 2024-03-27 .  Retrieved 2024-03-27 – via Newspapers.com .  The article notes: "On July 26, Academic Dean Dr. Merle Marsh, representing the Worcester Country School, will be honored by President Reagan at a national awards ceremony on the south lawn of the White House in Washington, D.C. The honor is a result of the 1987 project of the school's Computer Club featuring a public information campaign about Assateague National Seashore. Marsh served as the adviser for the student project. Superintendent Rodger Rector of Assateague nominated the school for this national award. ... The Worcester Country School group has already received national awards from Apple Computer Inc. for this project. The students involved which included children in grades 4-6 from the Eastern Shores of Maryland and Virginia and Southern Delaware, were also honored with a plaque presented to them in the Office of the Secretary of the Interior by the Head of the National Parks Bill Mott and the Superintendent of the Assateague National Seashore Rodger Rector. Throughout the Worcester Country School's community service project the students used their computer skills to learn about and inform others about the erosion problems of the beaches."  Less significant coverage: Taylor, Susan (2007).  Berlin (Images of America) .  Charleston, South Carolina: Arcadia Publishing .  ISBN 978-1-4396-1772-4 .  Retrieved 2024-03-27 – via Google Books .  The book provides one sentence of coverage about the subject.  The book notes: "Worcester Country School, the region's independent school, opened in 1970, changing its name to Worcester Preparatory School in 1999 to reflect its college preparatory mission."  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Worcester Preparatory School to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline , which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".  Cunard ( talk ) 11:15, 27 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep and I've stricken my ! delete above, based on the sources and their analysis provided above by Cunard .  microbiology Marcus [ petri dish · growths ] 17:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: keep