2019 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race): The 2019 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) article has not been updated since the event in 2019.  All the relevant information has been moved onto the 2019 Ronde van Drenthe page.  Turini2 ( talk ) 21:06, 13 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women , Events , Cycling ,  and Netherlands .  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:31, 13 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment .  Is there a reason not to simply redirect to 2019 Ronde van Drenthe ?  It sounds like the content has already been merged, so presumably we wish to preserve the history.  Typically this could just be discussed on the article's talk page without involving AfD.  pburka ( talk ) 21:39, 13 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Pburka So I could just remove the article content and redirect?  Turini2 ( talk ) 08:12, 14 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Move 2019 Ronde van Drenthe to this page The naming of this page is correct but the 2018 Ronde van Drenthe is incorrect.  2019 Ronde van Drenthe should have the men's race results as per the 2018 naming way 2018 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) and 2018 Ronde van Drenthe for the men.  Therefore I propose a move of 2019 Ronde van Drenthe to this page we are discussing.  Paulpat99 ( talk ) 08:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Paulpat99 Ah, fair point.  However, given the higher profile nature of the women's race in this instance (in the UCI Women's World Tour ), and that there's substantially more articles about the women's races - I'd suggest the opposite, and that the two articles on the men's races ( 2018 and 2017 ) are renamed Ronde van Drenthe (men's race).  Turini2 ( talk ) 08:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge any and all of the women's "specials" into the main annual article on the race.  For all years, the women's race articles are unjustified spinoffs.  gidonb ( talk ) 02:15, 18 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Gidonb I completely disagree with this - you're arguing for the deletion of nineteen ( 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 ) articles and merging them?!  On what grounds?  The contemporary women's race is a higher profile race than the mens race (being part of the UCI Women's World Tour ).  Using terms like "special" and "unjustified spinoff" comes across to me as sexist, I do hope that wasn't your intention...  At the very least WP:IDONTLIKEIT has no place here.  Turini2 ( talk ) 17:14, 18 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I don't see any connection between my text and the awkward text that appeared under it so I will skip this "reaction".  gidonb ( talk ) 10:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] On what grounds do you propose merging 19 articles?   What do you mean by "unjustified spinoffs"?  Turini2 ( talk ) 11:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment And I will also skip this one.  I had sealed off the bullying against me and was ready to open a new slate.  This was undone.  As a result, if I now continue the discussion, as if nothing happened, it could be understood that I condone someone's gender-based bullying.  I do not.  gidonb ( talk ) 12:13, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I was looking for clarity in your wording, which I hoped you could explain.  I think we can move on.  Turini2 ( talk ) 15:34, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Just so you know: bullying your peers at Wikipedia will not make you any friends.  gidonb ( talk ) 16:13, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment .  I'm also partial to merging.  I'm not comfortable with the current naming convention of, e.g. 2016 Ronde van Drenthe and 2016 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) , which seem to make the women's race subsidiary to the male as norm Ronde van Drenthe event.  These should either be merged into 2016 Ronde van Drenthe or the men's race should be renamed.  pburka ( talk ) 14:46, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Where possible, editors are trying to use the official name of the race (e.g. 2023 Paris–Roubaix Femmes versus 2023 Paris–Roubaix ).  It's a challenge given the long history of the men's cycling events compared to the newer women's ones - but I'm trying my best to combat male as norm !  Turini2 ( talk ) 14:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Proposal .  To foster systematic information governance, I propose the following mergers where targets are blue and renames where the targets are red, where the concerns are premature WP:SPINOFFs / WP:SPINOUTs out of the blue targets, and male as norm (as raised by user:pburka ) and excessive subject matter fragmentation, both potentially for ALL targets.  2007 Novilon Internationale Damesronde van Drenthe → 2007 Ronde van Drenthe 2010 Novilon Eurocup Ronde van Drenthe → 2010 Ronde van Drenthe 2014 Novilon EDR Cup → 2014 Ronde van Drenthe 2015 Novilon EDR Cup → 2015 Ronde van Drenthe 2013 Drentse 8 van Dwingeloo → 2013 Ronde van Drenthe 2014 Drentse 8 van Dwingeloo → 2014 Ronde van Drenthe 2015 Acht van Westerveld → 2015 Ronde van Drenthe 2016 Acht van Westerveld → 2016 Ronde van Drenthe 2007 Ronde van Drenthe World Cup → 2007 Ronde van Drenthe 2013 Ronde van Drenthe World Cup → 2013 Ronde van Drenthe 2014 Ronde van Drenthe World Cup → 2014 Ronde van Drenthe 2015 Ronde van Drenthe World Cup → 2015 Ronde van Drenthe 2016 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) → 2016 Ronde van Drenthe 2017 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) → 2017 Ronde van Drenthe 2018 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) → 2018 Ronde van Drenthe 2019 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) → 2019 Ronde van Drenthe 2021 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) → 2021 Ronde van Drenthe 2022 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) → 2022 Ronde van Drenthe 2023 Ronde van Drenthe (women's race) → 2023 Ronde van Drenthe gidonb ( talk ) 03:52, 20 April 2023 (UTC) Later added: [ reply ] Dwars door Drenthe → Ronde van Drenthe gidonb ( talk ) 17:25, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Support changing 2016 onwards (potentially naming any men's race articles in the same period to men's race, women's race.  The issue with the first eight on your list - is that those races aren't Ronde van Drenthe.  They were adjacent events on the same weekend - hence the different names.  Turini2 ( talk ) 07:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Support as per Turini2's support, Merge from 2016 to the non bracketed title.  Plus all the previous versions to the targets as requested as per the main article the women's events used to be all stages of one race so one could argue they are part of a series.  This is cleaner and simpler than my proposal.  Having both men and Women's results for each edition in the year page is fine although if the Women's event does get expanded greatly then I would agree to it being stand-alone.  Paulpat99 ( talk ) 21:30, 21 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment .  The first edition of the Ronde van Drenthe was in 1960.  Since 1998 the race caters women.  My proposal will also allow simplifying the following template.  v t e Ronde van Drenthe Men's editions Ronde van Drenthe 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 Dwars door Drenthe (2010–2015) 2010 2011 2012 2013 2016 2015 Women's editions Damesronde van Drenthe (1998–2015) 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 Drentse 8 van Dwingeloo / Acht van Westerveld 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 Ronde van Drenthe 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 gidonb ( talk ) 12:06, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I think all of this that you have added needs to be a separate proposal.  This proposal should have been introduced when this AFD was opened, not on the day that it should be closed.  L iz Read!  Talk!  23:25, 20 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Hi Liz, it's not a new proposal.  Just putting it down clear and square and easy to work with for whoever closes.  The AfD was opened on April 13.  On April 14, Paulpat99 said this is what we need to do with 2 articles.  I joined on April 18 and said we should do this with 19 articles (as counted by nom).  On April 19, pburka agreed and provided important additional rationale.  On April 20, I fleshed this out as I did here with Sandstein and you providing governance.  If PaulPat99 says this is what they intended or support, the AfD can already be closed as a merge/rename all per community consensus.  And even if not, my proposal, as I see it, would still be the leading proposition among 4 participants in a first relist.  If the claim is that the 20th article is a bit of an afterthought, I would agree.  It belongs with the rest but was not immediately indicated.  No problem to list this later.  It would then become part of the template cleanup.  gidonb ( talk ) 00:28, 21 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, 78.26 ( spin me / revolutions ) 16:43, 21 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: merge