B Major (South African musician) : Nominated for non-notable awards and cited a user written source and other cited sources are primary and non-reliable.  Fails WP:GNG , WP:MUSICBIO and ultimately WP:ANYBIO .  dxneo ( talk ) 17:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People , Artists , Bands and musicians ,  and South Africa .  dxneo ( talk ) 17:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions .  dxneo ( talk ) 17:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete : The Daily Voice article used as sourcing is the only thing I can find.  Having your article basically locked from re-creation is never a good sign; this individual is not notable, lack of sourcing (one source is all I can find, literally nothing else).  SALT applies here too I'm thinking.  Oaktree b ( talk ) 17:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete Concur with nomination.  Also, there are at least 15 salting protections that I'm aware of (done by me).  See this list beginning with the first item there from 4 January 2021 on through 20 March 2023.  See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/B major (person) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/B Major (Music Producer) .  -- Hammersoft ( talk ) 18:17, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] That's some kind of record. Wow, that's excessive. Oaktree b ( talk ) 19:58, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] There's a long history. You may find Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Bmusique99/Archive interesting. -- Hammersoft ( talk ) 20:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Wow, persistent fellow.  Almost to the point of "chasing a road runner using Acme products" persistent.  Oaktree b ( talk ) 21:05, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete per nom.  A search found nothing that shows notability.  Fails WP:GNG and does not meet WP:BASIC .  - AuthorAuthor ( talk ) 21:52, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete : Not notable.  Article should be deleted per nomination.  @ Hammersoft , you have hit the nail on the head.  Ezra Cricket ( talk ) 22:09, 28 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep : The artist is upcoming and featured in many newspapers, including and international news media called free press info.  Where they talk about the subject in detail not just a mention.  I also found other articles which are slight mentions such as Plainsman Newspaper.  He has also been in the IOL News media site in Africa with south African rapper YoungstaCPT most of the articles can be found using the search term B Major SA.  I'd say give this artist page a 3 month trial to see what else comes up.  Frankymulls ( talk ) 04:12, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Please link the sources where he is covered in depth.  Mach61 ( talk ) 13:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Hi, please see https://freepressinfo.com/sunday-morning-de-b-major-sa-nominada-a-cancion-del-ano-en-los-cape-town-artist-awards/ and https://www.dailyvoice.co.za/lifestyle-entertainment/major-hit-in-the-making-mitchells-plain-muso-drops-new-album-2507039b-a202-4425-b9df-2a576989517ahttps://freepressinfo.com/sunday-morning-de-b-major-sa-nominada-a-cancion-del-ano-en-los-cape-town-artist-awards/ Frankymulls ( talk ) 16:45, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Looking at freepressinfo.com and scanning the current articles in each section...every single one of them is written by the guy who founded the site.  It's effectively a self published source.  The Daily Voice, as a source to support notability of this person, has been used many times in the past without success.  -- Hammersoft ( talk ) 19:53, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Concur with Mach61. Further, we don't give articles a three month trial to see if they become notable in that time. Even if we did, this has been going on now for almost three years. Nothing's changed that impacts their notability footprint with respect to Wikipedia. -- Hammersoft ( talk ) 14:04, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Not to bad mouth anyone but Frankymulls what's gonna change in a span of three months that did not happen in three years?  I know the subject is able to pull some strings and most likely fabricate sources, which I believe is definitely how they got their article afloat for this long.  I never saw this article at NPR/South Africa .  The subject pays editors (mainly new) to write about him, and I'm ashamed to say I'm a victim of that, which is why I was amazed when I saw their article here (of course with no RS).  He saw that I created Mvzzle , Rethabile Khumalo , and " Umlilo " then they approached me at my talk then WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger and promised to pay me if I can write about them.  If there was no keep ! vote I was gonna lean towards speedy, I don't know why it is so important for him to be on Wikipedia and even to go as far as to fabricate source but such behavior cannot be tolerated.  dxneo ( talk ) 16:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] user:Dxneo you ask what will change in 3 months that did not happen in 3 years?  I can't answer that directly but I can say his latest article in daily voice says he signed with a Notable musician this year in August and is busy with his first Album which is powered by the south African national lottery.  That is what makes it different from all your attempts trying to creste the article, this time there is actual proof that the guy exists .   And that genuine journalists wrote about him at free will, the newspapers even have a wikipedia page which can be found here Daily Voice (South African newspaper) And has hundreds of thousands readers daily.  Please do your research before taking your personal vendetta out on wikipedia, from what you told me it sounds like you out to get revenge bud.  There are other ways to get back at him.  Frankymulls ( talk ) 17:20, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Nobody has ever contested that he "exists".  It's not enough for a person to "exist" to be on Wikipedia.  That a newspaper has a Wikipedia article here does not mean that someone they write about is automatically notable.  See WP:NOTINHERITED .  As to your accusations of a personal vendetta on the part of Dxneo, I strongly advise you to carefully read and from this point on adhere to Wikipedia:No personal attacks .  Comment on content, not the contributor.  Your attacking another editor does nothing to help your argument and actually undermines your own argument.  Nobody is going to be convinced you're right and we're all wrong because you think someone has a personal vendetta.  -- Hammersoft ( talk ) 18:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I hear your point but the artist actually meets at least 1 requirement at WP:ANYBIO which is 2. The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field. Also to mention the subject has been featured in a very popular newspaper in Cape town south Africa and a Spanish News Media site which both is secondary from the subject and the news reported by the journalists from these sources are reliable and secondary from each other and the subject. I see the long excessive trys to create the article on B Major (South African musician) , user:Dxneo somehow you have been a sockpocket all along and the energy I get from this deletion is that you have some personal vendetta with the guy. Which we do not allow on wikipedia,  your involvement in this deletion gives it the impression that this guy didnt pay you due to your last attempt? And you created the article in the first place knowing the guy wasn't that notable at the time? Being featured in "multiple" news sources means at least more than 1 article covered in depth about the subject which this article passes. Not to mention WP:Stub . This article definitely has the potential to grow and be more notable in his field unlike the other article I created which is Doc Shebeleza (South African musician) This artist has a history on wikipedia but it shouldn't determine his future on wikipedia, at this time he at least meets 1/2 requirements and should be in no ways harm of being deleted. Frankymulls ( talk ) 17:07, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Frankymulls , actually I refused to get paid as I thought I was doing a good thing, and at that time I was inexperienced citing even primary sources meaning I did not know if the subject was notable or not (I did not know anything about notability). The sources you're talking about are written like wiki articles and are likely promotional, the only verifiable of the subject is this one . Oh and yeah maybe I'm a sockpuppet, that's why the admins trusted me with so many perms not once but twice. The subject never charted, was never nominated for any notable award, and never received any recording certifications as per RiSA . I am here to ensure that this is a safe place, I don't do personal attacks. dxneo ( talk ) 17:18, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] A subject/musician don't need to chart to have a wikipedia page. WP:NOTABILITY Depends on WP:Significant Coverage and Secondary Sources. Which the subject has and it covers him in depth, plus they are newspapers who keeps archives. Whatever is written on his wiki article can be found at least on 2 of the reliable sources which is sited. Frankymulls ( talk ) 17:27, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] If you know anything about journalism you will know that if you're writing about a new subject, you have to introudce it properly to your readers. If it's a person, their real names , what they do, date of birth and why you're writing about the subject. Frankymulls ( talk ) 17:31, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] He's not made any significant cultural impact, BIO point #2 isn't met. If it was, he'd have extensive sourcing an not get deleted this many times, to be blunt. Oaktree b ( talk ) 05:11, 30 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] keep : Per WP:NBASIC People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple (which means more than 1) published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject. Which i don't see how a newspaper from Spain can be intellectually connected to an Afrikaans news paper in Cape Town. I also found the 2 articles on Google News which is the Daily Voice and Press Info articles, that should pass the multiple coverage required? — Preceding unsigned comment added by UncleCedric ( talk • contribs ) 17:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Do you guys think this is a game? Excluding reviewers, you two Frankymulls and UncleCedric are the only people who worked on the article and it's amazing how the latter last edited on 12 September and came back today for this AfD which I believe they did not get a notification from, a checkuser might be needed here. This source is user written and cited in the article. Please see the above mentioned AfDs to see why the subject fails WP:N and why they are salted. dxneo ( talk ) 18:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I too find it very curious that both Frankmulls and UncleCedric has not edited more than a month and suddenly reappeared when this article came up for deletion. That said, I don't think a checkuser would be illuminating. We do need to assume good faith , but that doesn't mean we shut our eyes and ears . -- Hammersoft ( talk ) 18:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete : per nom and above, there's a history of sockpuppetry and salt .  Cited sources are not reliable and not enough to pass WP:GNG .  Qaqaamba ( talk ) 21:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete ; no reliable sources and the apparent 15 times this page has been salted under different titles is enough to tell me that they're clearly still not notable.  Darling ☔ ( talk · contribs ) 19:21, 3 December 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete and SALT I feel like an article that has been salted in 15 different namespaces probably should be speedily deleted.  Best, GPL93 ( talk ) 13:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: delete