Zhu Yijun (badminton): Still TOOSOON.  Zhu Yijun never won or competed in the senior tournament.  Fails NBAD.  Most sources came from social media platform (Wechat or Weixin).  Can We wait until Zhu won any senior international title?  Stvbastian ( talk ) 17:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople , Badminton ,  and China .  Stvbastian ( talk ) 17:06, 25 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep (creator) You don't seem to understand what WeChat is.  Most news reports in China occur in WeChat , that's why you can't search for them on the web.  WeChat is a big platform, it is not only a social media, so you have to determine whether a source is reliable or not.  Removing all WeChat sources is equivalent to removing all Chinese local sources.  I don't see why so many local sources providing significant coverage for him doesn't make him pass GNG and BASIC.  NBAD is just a reference, I don't see why a World Junior Champion doesn't guarantee notability, just like how World Senior Champions doesn't pass NBAD!  Quoting from NSPORT: "the failure to meet these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted", an article with four sources providing SIGCOV should not be deleted.  Timothytyy ( talk ) 00:07, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] What makes this a reliable source?  Is it written by a professional journalist?  I was hoping WeChat would have an entry at WP:RSPS but it does not.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:37, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] It is written by the secretary of the Shanghai Sports Centre, who I believe is professional.  I know RSPS doesn't include WeChat, but if WeChat is excluded, no Chinese local sources would be reliable, which makes it quite unfair.  Maybe we should start a discussion on whether WeChat is reliable or not, since no one has started one so far.  I would suggest mark WeChat as "depends" because some WeChat articles are slightly biased, so editors should check the content.  Yeah, I agree the source you provided was written quite biasedly, but can you comment on the other sources?  Thanks!  Timothytyy ( talk ) 11:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] This is why i mentioned about sources from Wechat.  Seems like everyone can creating article and does not represent the editorial view.  But, pls this article is toosoon for Chinese badminton player.  Winning some junior titles are far from notability, especially China is a badminton powerhouse.  It would be nice, if we wait until this player won any senior title then we can create a stand alone article.  Stvbastian ( talk ) 11:54, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] What do you mean by "Winning some junior titles are far from notability"?  Do you understand how notability works?  Everyone is discussing about sources while you somehow give an achievement-based criteria?  Also can you check other sources?  Thank you.  Timothytyy ( talk ) 12:00, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Are there any restrictions on opinion here??  pls don't be arrogant, by questioning my comments.  Zhu Yijun achievements is not "remarkable" or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded in the stand alone article. There have been many badminton players from China who have won the World junior title, and they have at least won several international senior tournaments. Stvbastian ( talk ) 12:56, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] No, you still don't understand how SNG works. SNGs (including NBAD) are merely suggestions about whether a player is likely to have SIGCOV. All in all, notability is still determined by amount of SIGCOV. Spiderone , can you explain "what is notability" for him? I explained a lot of times to him but he still thinks that I am wrong (and arrogant by questioning his non policy-based comments???). Timothytyy ( talk ) 14:26, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The SNGs are not designed to be exclusionary so, if someone fails NBAD but passes GNG, the correct outcome is to keep the article. Whether or not this person passes GNG, though, is debatable, hence this debate. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:03, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The training center that the subject trains at is not an independent source on him. Do you have RS that are not from his team, training center, or any other governing sports org? JoelleJay ( talk ) 22:18, 26 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Sources 1, 4 and 8. Timothytyy ( talk ) 00:06, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Source 1 has significant coverage but I am very concerned by the line at the bottom of the article which seems to translate to Disclaimer: The opinions of this article represent only the author himself. Sohu is an information release platform, and Sohu only provides information storage space services. This indicates that the content is self-published and has not had any editorial oversight. 4 and 8 don't seem to have much about the player. Source 8 also has a warning The above content (including pictures or videos if any) is uploaded and published by users of the self-media platform "NetEase". This platform only provides information storage services. I have serious concerns about these sources. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:09, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The topic of source 4 is "The first World Champion from Yangpu is only 18 years old", which is exactly the subject himself. The content is also about his junior training. But I agree that sources 1 and 8 might not be reliable. Timothytyy ( talk ) 09:43, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Source 1 seems like it could have been written by Yangpu District Sports Center (non-independent). Source 4 is a very brief tournament results recap, which is considered routine and not SIGCOV by NSPORT, and the author seems to be a badminton class promoting itself (not RS). Source 8 is also a routine match/tournament recap, and was by a content uploader named " Xiaolan watches sports " (SPS). I am not seeing GNG here. JoelleJay ( talk ) 17:27, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment - a debate about WeChat/Weixin's reliability (or lack thereof) has been started here . Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 08:10, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete . Clearly fails WP:NBAD . Why is this even a question? He's not a "World Champion" anything -- he's just a Junior Champion. Who cares if he is the first person from one of the 16 districts of Shanghai to achieve something? That doesn't make him notable on Wikipedia. Softlavender ( talk ) 09:59, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Can you explain your stance by sourcing policies (i.e. the discussion we are currently having)? Also if you think he is not notable due to his achievements would you suggest draftifying the article? Timothytyy ( talk ) 13:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Softlavender , NSPORT requires athletes meet GNG, which means meeting or failing any sport-specific guideline does not affect a subject's notability (or presumption thereof) and cannot be used by itself as a reason at AfD. If the subject has multiple pieces of SIGCOV in SIRS then he is likely to merit an article, and if he does not then he should not have one. JoelleJay ( talk ) 17:04, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete per the analysis of the sources above by Spider and JoelleJay.  It does not appear that there are any sources that meet all the standards of WP:GNG .  -- Jayron 32 18:39, 27 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Suggestion Can we discuss about this after the RS noticeboard discussion? Timothytyy ( talk ) 12:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete Fails WP:NBAD and WP:GNG . The sources are either not independent of the subject or not providing significant coverage. For example, the WeChat posts used as sources are from his club, the "Shanghai Competitive Sports Training Management Center" and the Sohu citation has a disclaimer "The opinions of this article represent only the author himself.  Sohu is an information release platform, and Sohu only provides information storage space services. " and reads like a typical press-release .  On the other hand, this BWF article provides routine game coverage with no real biographical details, and this article on Olympics.com is essentially just listing the tournament results.  Abecedare ( talk ) 22:21, 29 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete - Abecedare sums it up perfectly above.  We're not at WP:SPORTBASIC yet.  Perhaps a case of WP:TOOSOON , if he is ever going to be notable.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete fails WP:NBAD and WP:GNG .  Pharaoh of the Wizards ( talk ) 00:51, 2 May 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: delete