List of Dune secondary characters: In the spirit of WP:SOFTDELETE , the OR issues can likely be solved by merging this to List of Dune characters .  Thoughts?  Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | reply here 06:05, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements , Science fiction and fantasy ,  and Lists .  Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | reply here 06:05, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I have no objections to merging... but merging should never be an excuse to eliminate certain characters as "non notable" (the list is notable, the characters need not be).  Jclemens ( talk ) 06:20, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Actually, the relationship between the two lists is problematic, in that List of Dune characters really doesn't give any descriptions at all, and there is definitely overlap.  I suspect that the list under discussion was constructed as a merger of formerly independent articles, and simply omits the "major" characters not merged.   If there's to be a change, adding the rest of the characters into this list in a WP:SS fashion, while renaming the nominal "main" list into a List of Dune franchise appearances or something similar in that it does not serve the purpose most would expect from a Wikipedia characters article.  Jclemens ( talk ) 06:30, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment The article seems to be primarily character bio / plot summary, with a bit of secondary analysis, and essentially no tertiary analysis.  It's pretty in-depth and curated, and I don't know if we are able to transwiki it anywhere but it doesn't really belong here.  If there is secondary coverage from which we can construct tertiary analysis, tagging or draftifying would be an option.  At the very least let's redirect as an ATD because we don't need to delete history.  I do wonder if the article as it stands would fit at Wikibooks, as it's a pretty well done version of what it is (but not an encyclopedia article)  — siro χ o 07:15, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] That's a common problem for many lists of characters, which are nothing but plot summaries.  An issue overdue for Village Pump or a major RfC or such, I think.  Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | reply here 07:45, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I'm not sure how best to organize these, but the list articles seem useful to bring together the various individual characters that have a bit of coverage but don't need a stand-alone article.  The main list contains little actual information about the characters, and the Dune universe strikes me as one of a relatively small number of fictional universes that could sustain more detailed sub-lists.  I take the nominator's point about determining "secondary", but a merge into the main list would start to make it unwieldy.  Having only read the first of the books, I don't know the universe well enough to propose an alternative.  — Rhododendrites talk \\ 17:24, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge into a reformatted List of Dune characters .  Jclemens is correct that this list is a merge/consolidation of individual articles for notable characters that at the time weren't quite substantial enough to warrant standalone articles.  I'd like to boldly reformat List of Dune characters to something like the featured List of The Mandalorian characters (and similar lists), and merge in the content from this list and List of Dune Bene Gesserit .  Unwieldiness is a concern because over time I've already pared down the entries in both lists, but I really think it can work (I've considered doing it in the past).  Plus with the advent of the Villeneuve films, there is also a lot more media coverage available on some of these characters than when the list was created.  I'm ready to start working on this immediately.  I will begin the reformat of the main list today (that should be done anyway), and will hold off on any major merges until I have some confirmation here that I won't be disrupting the AfD.  Thanks. — TAnthony Talk 18:12, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Piotrus , are you willing to withdraw this nom to allow TAnthony's proposed work--without prejudice to immediately refiling a future request if that doesn't happen?  Jclemens ( talk ) 18:32, 29 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Would conclusion of the AfD as merge not be the same?  I'd be happy to close it as such (or see anyone else do so).  Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | reply here 02:33, 30 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge based on discussion above.  I understand the concern about starting the work before the AFD has concluded, but Wikipedia isn't a WP:BUREAUCRACY .  I'd encourage an expansion of the main article regardless, and hopefully a consensus will emerge to support that.  Shooterwalker ( talk ) 00:59, 31 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: merge