John Quast: Article has been tagged for 18 months due to this deficiency and still no SIGCOV.  Preferred result is redirect to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929)#1923 but my efforts to do that have twice been reverted (in 2022 by User:BeanieFan11 and in 2024 by User:Let'srun ).  Cbl62 ( talk ) 18:17, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople , American football ,  and Kentucky .  WC Quidditch ☎ ✎ 18:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Redirect to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929)#1923 : My revert was due to the previous request for a discussion regarding notability of the subject, which had not yet occurred.  A search of multiple newspaper archives failed to uncover any WP:SIGCOV for the subject, however, and as such WP:GNG is not met.  Redirect as a WP:ATD .  Let'srun ( talk ) 18:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Redirect to the list mentioned, player isn't notable by himself BFC Aspie ( talk ) 18:44, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I think there's a case for keeping here.  There's lots of mentions and some articles on him which could arguably be SIGCOV, such as this piece from The Courier-Journal which is a decent-sized piece focusing on him and one other; there's also an article on "Quast Is Added To Grid Staff At U. of L." ("He was one of the best punters ever produced by a local school and his kicking won immediate attention at Purdue") and a brief piece with a photo [12] ("his ability to snag forward passes has gained him recognition") – his one-game stay with the Brecks also has coverage: "Quast, Ex-Purdue Star Is To Play With Brecks In Tomorrow's Contest" / [13] .  His death also received coverage in the area papers, such as [14] ("Quast ... starred at Purdue and he became an outstanding football official").  Thoughts @ Cbl62 , Let'srun ,  and BFC Aspie : ?  – I can turn this into something pretty decent if you like.  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 19:37, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I think that of those sources, the best one is the 1926 one talking about him joining the Louisville coaching staff.  The other ones are either mentions or focus more on other people, while I'm not sure how to rate the obit.  I do think this is a close call with those sources though, so maybe draftify (or userfy) to try and find more sources?  I'm also wondering now if there are any books which may have covered him?  Let'srun ( talk ) 19:49, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] If someone is willing to work on adding the sources and improving the article, I'd support draftification.  Cbl62 ( talk ) 19:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] If I were to expand the article with the sources found, would both of you consider that sufficient?  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 20:00, 29 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I'd support draftifying at this time, but I think we'd need one more piece of significant coverage to have the GNG (or BASIC) be met.  Will take another look later though as it is a close case of notability.  Let'srun ( talk ) 00:11, 30 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I agree.  Draftification seems like the best way forward if someone is willing to work on it.  Cbl62 ( talk ) 00:59, 30 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Agree that more sigcov is needed or that it would be sufficient if it were expanded?  I can absolutely expand it whenever necessary – but I want to make sure I'm not wasting my time on something that will be deleted if further coverage isn't found.  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 01:08, 30 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Cbl62 : ?  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 20:42, 30 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Probably enough to get by the lower bar of WP:SPORTBASIC #5, but not sure if it's enough under WP:GNG .  Cbl62 ( talk ) 20:53, 30 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Cbl62 : I guess, my question is, would you support it being in mainspace if I were to substantially expand it?  It takes time for me to do these things and I want to make sure that, if I did expand it, I wouldn't be wasting my time.  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 21:07, 30 June 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I imagine "Special to the Courier" meant the same thing then as it does now: submitted content, i.e. not RS or independent.  The 5 brief sentences in an un-bylined local coaching announcement are routine, far from SIGCOV, and are accompanied by an almost equal amount of coverage instructing readers how they can participate in a tailgating caravan to "the game on Saturday".  An adjacent story has more than double the content hyping an upcoming game between two high schools.  If you can write a "decent article" on Quast just from these kinds of trivial community-interest blurbs, then you could write one on basically any small-town high school coach--which surely is an indication such coverage falls under the utterly mundane content censured by NOTNEWS. The two Indianapolis Star articles are desperately deficient in SIGCOV and so contribute nothing. JoelleJay ( talk ) 21:31, 4 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] That I could write a good article on a high school coach is completely irrelevant to Quast's notability. I'm not as familiar with the "Special to the _" process, but I note that I've seen it plenty of times with e.g. The New York Times . Are all of those NYT stories regarded as unreliable? BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 15:04, 6 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] I've thought this through and I'm not convinced that the proffered sources satisfy GNG. The whole basis for his claim to notablity is that he played one game for the Louisville Brecks in 1923. Only two of the sources touch briefly on his pro "career", namely this one, and both simply announce that Quast signed with the Brecks -- with no depth whatsoever.  And the obit in the Courier Journal ( here ) doesn't even mention his one-game NFL "career" -- if his one game with the Brecks wasn't even significant enough to merit even a brief mention in his obituary, how in the world can we then claim that it is notable enough to be the basis of an encyclopedia article??  Cbl62 ( talk ) 05:08, 1 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Why should the only thing that matters here be whether his obituary mentions that he played in the NFL?  If it had added, "Quast also played in the NFL", are you saying you'd suddenly think it worthy of being kept?  I thought it was the coverage that mattered, not whether his brief obituary mentions a certain aspect of his life?  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 16:12, 1 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Let's get real.  The one and only reason that this one-sentence sub-stub was created was because he appeared in an NFL game.  That is the real-world assertion of "notability" that purportedly supports the creation and maintenance of the article.  The complete absence of coverage of his one-game NFL career (certainly no SIGCOV -- and not even a mention in his obituary) eviscerates the contention that his NFL "career" was notable.  Seems pretty clear to me.  Cbl62 ( talk ) 20:29, 1 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Your argument brings to mind the Buck Saunders AfD where you presented some routine coverage that likewise made no mention of his one-game NFL career.   Didn't satisfy GNG in that case and shouldn't here either.  Cbl62 ( talk ) 20:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Saunders only had SIGCOV from an unusual death.  Quast has multiple pieces of arguably significant coverage from his football career talking about how he was a 'star' and a popular player, including some coverage for his NFL career.  I could write an extensive biography of this NFL player in accordance with WP:NBASIC ( "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability" ), but oddly it seems some editors think having John Quast 	End 	Louisville Brecks 	1923 	Yes 	Purdue is more beneficial to the reader than a C-class or possible GA on the subject...  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 22:28, 1 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Note that the full guideline for WP:NBASIC says If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.  The question here is if the sources provided in this discussion, which are secondary, go beyond trivial coverage.  I believe they don't do that nearly enough here, but reasonable minds may differ.  Let'srun ( talk ) 13:41, 3 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] You had said you thought the coaching staff article was SIGCOV #1; there's also this – about the 'Kentucky boys starring at Purdue', which is about ~325 words focusing on him and one other player (along with two pictures).  What's wrong with that one?  BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 14:43, 3 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] It focuses more on that other player and doesn't really delve too much into Quast specifically other than one paragraph (the second to last).  I'd expect a bit more personally, but that is just where I stand.  I certainly understand where you are coming from.  Let'srun ( talk ) 15:55, 3 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Weak keep or at least draftify - This is a really tough case.  The sources provided by BeanieFan11 are just barely enough for significant coverage in my opinion and it would appear Quast is notable more so for his college playing and coaching careers.  I also agree with Cbl62 that this article would never have been created if not for his brief NFL tenure.  However, the bits and pieces of non-trivial coverage found combined with his professional tenure push me towards keeping the article.  Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep Meets GNG per above.  ~ EDDY ( talk / contribs ) ~ 18:23, 4 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete .  Note: Cbl62 brought this AfD to my attention in another discussion, though I had already watchlisted it and planned to participate.  The coverage here is exactly the type of routine local community news we would expect for any college athlete or high school coach.  But we have a policy: For example, routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage .  So I'd like to know how these articles go beyond "routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports..." in ways that are not present in any of the articles on other local coaches and athletes in the same newspapers.  I also want to point out that "Kentucky boys starring at Purdue" is bylined "Special to the Courier-Journal", which in all likelihood means it was contributed by non-staff who are almost certainly not independent.  JoelleJay ( talk ) 22:14, 4 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Redirect to List of players who appeared in only one game in the NFL (1920–1929)#1923 , as helpfully suggested by the previous editors.  And Adoil Descended ( talk ) 09:28, 6 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Draftify .  There is a decent amount of coverage here.  While its close, I believe that with draftification I can sufficiently show compliance with WP:NBASIC (I'm a bit busy at the moment to expand right now), which notes that sources can be combined to demonstrate notability if by itself not enough.  I think I should be given a chance with draftification, given my history with saving historic NFL players from deletion.  Thanks, BeanieFan11 ( talk ) 15:01, 6 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Regardless of the result (redirect, draftify, delete), you remain within your rights to try to improve the article at a later date.  Frankly, there's not a lot to draftify.  I hereby preserve the entire one-sentence narrative text for future development: "John Henry Quast (April 4, 1900 – August 9, 1966) was an American football end for the Louisville Brecks of the National Football League (NFL)."  Cbl62 ( talk ) 17:46, 6 July 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: redirect