Death of Alexei Navalny: Joseph 2302 ( talk ) 14:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People , Politics ,  and Russia .  Joseph 2302 ( talk ) 14:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Oppose for now.  Information is still coming out.  Suggest giving it a week tops.  Borgenland ( talk ) 14:54, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Support it's not like we're gonna learn any details anyway besides the dry press statement and then an official declaration of death a couple of weeks down the line.  If or when we learn the truth (and thus more detials) decades from now, we could recreate the article then Kasperquickly ( talk ) 14:56, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge: There's a decent chance that there will be an article about this event, but I think that this is a clear-cut case of WP:TOOSOON .  We don't know what the precise implications of his likely murder will be.  BOTTO ( T • C ) 14:59, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep no ordinary death would have domestic and international protests as a consequence; there's also quite a lot of coverage of his death, and there can only be more once there is an investigation into his death.  If it turns out in a week that everyone has moved on and there's nothing more than reactions, then sure, delete it then.  Jaguarnik ( talk ) 15:00, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Oppose It's too early to determine if this will be notable enough for a full-fledged article.  Best to wait a few days as this will certainly have media coverage.  AverageLogic ( talk ) 15:02, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Oppose .  For many Russians, this is a political event of historic proportions.  Although we cannot know the exact details yet, it will clearly be remembered and discussed.  HFoxii ( talk ) 15:03, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep - if in a month nothing more happened concerning this death.  Then we might have a discussion, at this moment this is a highly notable death and a needed article.  Per WP:GNG.  BabbaQ ( talk ) 15:10, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep - As per above.  We should at least wait until the dust settles before such a discussion is made.  TheBritinator ( talk ) 15:25, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per BabbaQ SchoolChromebookUser ( talk ) 15:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per others, this is a very significant event that has attracted tons of media coverage already, it shouldn't be deleted yet - presidentofyes , the super aussa man 15:18, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep don't be ridiculous.  Jmj713 ( talk ) 15:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep more news and information will coming out soon Bakhos2010 ( talk ) 15:25, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep This will be going on for a long time as the international news investigations unfold.  — Maile ( talk ) 15:32, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep , probably an important political murder.  Wikisaurus ( talk ) 15:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] P. S. In ruwiki there is quite a long and detailed description of how his health was undermined by Russian prison authorities.  Wikisaurus ( talk ) 17:16, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge Too soon to make such article, it is Wikinews .  With evidence of intentional death and the circumstances of the investigation there should be such an article, but right now there is no information or sources to confirm or deny anything.  evs 💬 15:42, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep .  There is already, just hours after the first announcement, an international reaction that will easily make the event notable , for example this BBC article .  Mike Turnbull ( talk ) 16:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep As creator, it's obvious his death will acquire significant coverage and analysis in the coming years.  No Swan So Fine ( talk ) 16:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep Additional info in connection with his death cannot be included in full in other articles. -- Ipigott ( talk ) 16:13, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep the article. Navalny was too great a man to be glossed over like that. 2600:1700:3FB0:9C20:DD91:FCC8:35DD:E70F ( talk ) 16:16, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep A major event in world affairs. Spicemix ( talk ) 16:19, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep : This is already covered in the New York Times and other outlets; given his profile within the country, I'm almost certain more will come out. Oaktree b ( talk ) 16:22, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep Same as above LemonBoiii ( talk ) 16:22, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Oppose major event, more verification will come out. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ plz edit my user pg! Talk 16:30, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep The UK foreign secretary has already said there should be consequences against the Putin regime for Navalny's death. It's quite possible that reactions to his death could be politically significant in Russia and perhaps even change foreign policies abroad. Dorgesh ( talk ) 16:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep obviously notable event, with the main article being a large one already. Ur frnd ( talk ) 16:39, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per WP:FORK and WP:SIZESPLIT from the main biographical article. Abcmaxx ( talk ) 16:52, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep. Alexei Navalny's death can be viewed from many perspectives. Similar to other controversial deaths, consensus is to create a decided page. RKGMPhaild ( talk ) 17:19, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Snow keep -- The list of "keep"s is padded a bit by a few people not really citing good policy reasons, but even after you exclude those I think there's still a pretty clear consensus here that, while the current article may need work, the actual topic is already a significant one that merits its own article (rebutting the main delete argument of WP:TOOSOON ).  A couple of people ( Ur frnd , Abcmaxx ) have also cited the large size of the parent article, which a merge would only add to, and Ipigott also wrote that information about Navalny's death would not be able to receive adequate coverage in a separate article.  These are all sound policy reasons, and I think the "immediate relevance" argument convincingly outweighs the "too soon" concerns.  -- 3 kids in a trenchcoat ( talk ) 17:37, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Snow Keep .  This article has adequate coverage and keeps a POV slant about his death out of the main article.  Knowledgekid87 ( talk ) 17:53, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment While notability is obviously there, the fact that even Navalny's family and his lawyer haven't confirmed the death brings this close to BLP violation territory.  On the (extremely slight) off-chance that Navalny is still alive, or the (slightly more likely) chance that there won't be independent confirmation of his death anytime soon, this article will need major rethinking.  Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs ) 17:54, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per the various reasons already provided.  Clear Looking Glass ( talk ) 17:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep - A large number of media outlets, reliable ones too, have covered this event.  This subject is already notable enough to be its own article HetmanTheResearcher ( talk ) 17:56, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge back to Alexei Navalny per WP:NOTNEWS and/or WP:TOOSOON .  As noted above, many of the "keep" votes are WP:CRYSTAL arguments that the topic will eventually warrant a separate article in the future, or are plain arguments that we should keep this as a WP:POVFORK and WP:QUOTEFARM (or are variations of WP:ILIKEIT ) which are not good reasons to keep content.  The "events" section and a summarized form of the "reactions" section (trimmed and likely omitting the international reactions which are just social media quotes) could easily be merged into the main biography, with the rest of this article then being redundant.  See Death of Henry Kissinger for a similar example.  Ivanvector ( Talk / Edits ) 18:12, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Henry Kissinger is a bad example to use as his death was straightforward.  I don't know what long term coverage there might be, but this certainly isn't a usual death case.  - Knowledgekid87 ( talk ) 18:28, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] And what are your sources for that, roughly half a day of breaking news coverage?  Do I understand correctly that there isn't even an official confirmation that he has died?  Ivanvector ( Talk / Edits ) 18:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Well according to the BBC: "The weight of international opinion does not appear to tally with Russia's account of what happened to him." [9] This is significantly different from Kissinger who died of natural causes.  If Navalny were alive then it would go against this consensus.  - Knowledgekid87 ( talk ) 18:52, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Merge with Alexei Navalny per Ivanvector.  Generalissima ( talk ) 18:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep This event can be viewed from different perspectives, there will be more materials coming out which will obviously cause controversy and it will need its own page.  IKasio ( talk ) 18:29, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep for now and see how events develop - because the event is already notable by itself.  No doubts, he was murdered by keeping him is for a long time in a "punishment cell" in the Arctic prison [10] (they usually keep a very low temperature in such cells), or by other means.  Hence, the page would be better named a Murder of Alexei Navalny .  Informally speaking, his poisoning in Russia was already a death sentence issued to him by the Russian government, so it was only a matter of time when he would be executed.  My very best wishes ( talk ) 18:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Yeah, that doesn't sound at all like a separate article to push a particular point of view at all.  Ivanvector ( Talk / Edits ) 18:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] What point of view?  It only matters if the event was notable enough for a separate page - based on the coverage in multiple RS.  My very best wishes ( talk ) 18:55, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep this is relatively significant international event, and could have consequences for Russia and other countries Discombobulates ( talk ) 18:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Snow Keep .  obviously notable Tdmurlock ( talk ) 18:45, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep : per WP:SNOW .  Notable opposition to a dictator mysteriously dies in prison?  Probably notable.  StreetcarEnjoyer ( talk ) 19:06, 16 February 2024 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: keep