American Pregnancy Association: I had boldly redirected to list of anti-abortion organizations , but it was reverted on the basis of the encyclopedia listing.  I'd encourage folks to actually look that entry up -- it's a few paragraphs of promotion that sounds like it's directly from the organization.  e.g. it starts with As an organization committed to promoting healthy pregnancies and to reproductive issues, the American Pregnancy Association pursues its goals through education, research, advocacy, and serving the public interest.  APA is headquartered at 1424 Greenway Drive, Suite 440, Irving, Texas.  and goes on along the lines of Each day, approximately 5,479 couples experience fertility issues, and APA is concerned with providing information and support for them.  .  Should be re-redirected.  — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:45, 15 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics and Medicine .  — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:45, 15 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions .  — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:46, 15 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Redirect per nom, if the red link noted above was actually List of anti-abortion organizations in the United States#Texas , per the page's history.  microbiology Marcus ( petri dish • growths ) 17:55, 15 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep as in-depth coverage exists.  We need at least two in-depth articles to prove the notability, and there are more than that if someone conducts a proper WP:BEFORE .  We shouldn't be biased just because it advocates for "anti-abortion practices".  It's a significant non-profit organization, having attracted coverage from The New York Times , Dallas Morning News , and Associated Press when known as America's Pregnancy Helpline (read the quoted excerpt below).  Most of the in-depth media coverage pertains to its time as a pregnancy helpline.  Now, it's involved in many more activities.  Sage Publishing 's book has covered it in detail, including a two-page coverage accessible on Google Books .  Sage Publishing is a reputable academic publisher, and its reliability can't be doubted by cherry-picking some lines.  The two-page coverage includes excerpts like the ones below, demonstrating it is well-written: APA was founded in 1995 in response to the me-dia attention that followed the decision of an in¬fertile couple, Mike and Annie Shaeffer, to use two billboards in the city of Dallas to announce their desire to adopt.  After the Dallas Morning News and the Associated Press covered the story, the national media became interested in the couple.  As a result of the national coverage, the Shaeffers received more than 1,000 calls from individuals and couples who needed advice and information on pregnancy and reproduction.  This led to the decision to establish America's Pregnancy Helpline, which generated 212 referrals in its first year, and to begin broadcasting public service announcements.  Over the next nine years, the helpline provided information and referrals to 147,000 women and families from 75 coun¬tries and the United States.  In 2003 the helpline was expanded into the APA.  Additional in-depth articles just about the APA is given below: Butler, Kiera (22 April 2022).  "The Disinformation Campaign Behind a Top Pregnancy Website" .  Mother Jones .  Corinna, Heather (8 August 2008).  "Exposed: American Pregnancy Association Hides Links to CPCs" .  There is a lot more "According to..." because it is regularly featured in media, so this makes it difficult to find in-depth coverage hidden between these hundreds of articles.  64.135.238.133 ( talk ) 19:03, 15 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] at least two in-depth articles - sometimes two.  sometimes more.  WP:ORG is usually a higher bar than WP:GNG .  We shouldn't be biased just because it advocates for "anti-abortion practices" - Nobody is doing this.  Sage Publishing is a reputable academic publisher, and its reliability can't be doubted by cherry-picking some lines - Sage is generally reputable, but the article it's self-evidently promotional fluff, and anyone basing a ! vote on it should look at it in full.  Most of the in-depth coverage is critical, so an article about the subject would need to be primarily about that.  In general, if it's a borderline notability case and nearly all of the coverage that does exist is negative, personally I prefer to omit it from the encyclopedia rather than have a short, negative article.  YMMV.  — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] WP:THREE is an essay, not a guideline and since this is a non-profit, so WP:NONPROFIT is applicable, not WP:NORG.  If you still think otherwise, seek a consensus to change the guideline.  However, please avoid using a conservative non-profit as a test case.  APA meets WP:NONPROFIT because its activities are national in scale (#1) and has received coverage (both negative and positive coverage, not just negative) in independent reliable sources (#2), so we can write a balanced article that will be helpful to readers searching for information about this organization and its activities.  WP:NONPROFIT/WP:NGO quoted below, thanks.  1. The scope of their activities is national or international in scale.  2. The organization has received significant coverage in multiple reliable sources that are independent of the organization.  64.135.238.133 ( talk ) 22:15, 19 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] WP:THREE is an essay Nobody mentioned this.  WP:NONPROFIT is applicable, not WP:NORG - When I redirect, you said CORPDEPTH doesn't apply.  Now you're saying NORG doesn't apply.  WP:NONPROFIT is subsection of WP:NORG and CORPDEPTH is the same section as ORGDEPTH .  avoid using a conservative non-profit as a test case ?? ?  — Rhododendrites talk \\ 23:49, 19 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per 64.135.238.133 .  Notable.  -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count ) 22:36, 19 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources .  I was asked on my talk page to look for the Associated Press and The Dallas Morning News articles mentioned in the Sage Publishing book.  I found those sources and have listed them below, alongside other sources I found.  Butler, Kiera (2022-04-22).  "The Disinformation Campaign Behind a Top Pregnancy Website" .  Mother Jones .  Archived from the original on 2023-11-21 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 .  The article notes: "Here’s another thing it doesn’t mention: The American Pregnancy Association isn’t the dispassionate medical authority it might appear to be. Rather, it’s the brainchild of a Texas-based pro-life activist named Brad Imler, and it’s rife with medically inaccurate information—on both abortion and other reproductive health topics. The site hawks unproven blood tests, infertility treatments, and products purported to support the pregnant person and developing fetus. The American Pregnancy Association presents all of its information and products as evidence-based and medically accurate—but nowhere can one find its activist foundations or learn that it doesn’t have a single medical professional listed on its staff of a handful of people."  Purdy, Elizabeth R. (2008).  "American Pregnancy Association" .  In Zhang, Yawei (ed.).  Encyclopedia of Global Health .  Thousand Oaks, California: Sage Publications .  pp. 110–111.  ISBN 978-1-4129-4186-0 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 – via Google Books .  The book notes: "APA was founded in 1995 in response to the media attention that followed the decision of an infertile couple, Mike and Annie Shaeffer, to use two billboards in the city of Dallas to announce their desire to adopt. After the Dallas Morning News and the Associated Press covered the story, the national media became interested in the couple. As a result of the national coverage, the Shaeffers received more than 1,000 calls from individuals and couples who needed advice and information on pregnancy and reproduction. This led to the decision to establish America's Pregnancy Helpline, which generated 212 referrals in its first year, and to begin broadcasting public service announcements. Over the next nine years, the helpline provided information and referrals to 147,000 women and families from 75 countries and the United States. In 2003 the helpline was expanded into the APA."  Goode, Keisha L. ; Rothman, Barbara Katz (2021).  Pregnancy and Birth: A Reference Handbook .  Santa Barbara, California: ABC-Clio .  ISBN 978-1-4408-6921-1 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 – via Google Books .  The book notes: " 1995 The American Pregnancy Association, formerly known as America's Crisis Pregnancy Helpline, is established by Mike and Anne Sheaffer, who initially set up a hotline to support pregnant people seeking an adoptive couple for their babies. After receiving over 1,000 calls from people facing unplanned pregnancies with nowhere else to turn, the couple recognized this unfulfilled need in society and wanted to set up a confidential crisis line to allow people to receive the help they needed. In 2003, the helpline became the American Pregnancy Association, which became a foundation of health services for anyone in need, including education, research, advocacy, public policy and community awareness as well as a leading organization for reproductive and pregnancy health information."  Atterberry, Tara E., ed.  (2012).  Encyclopedia of Associations: An Associations Unlimited Reference .  Vol.  1 (52 ed.).  Farmington Hills, Michigan: Gale .  p. 1915.  ISBN 978-1-4144-6872-3 .  ISSN 0071-0202 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 – via Internet Archive .  The book notes: "Founded: 1995. National. Description: Promotes reproductive and pregnancy wellness through education, research, advocacy and community awareness. Aims to support women and families by lobbying the legislature, businesses and insurance providers to promote pregnancy and family health issues. Increases public awareness of the reproductive and pregnancy needs, concerns and resources necessary to address these needs. Publications: Week-by-Week, weekly. Newsletter. Price: free. Advertising: not accepted. Alternate Formats: online." "Pregnancy association launches Web site - Prenancy; Confidential service aids those experiencing reproductive problems and concerns" .  The Salina Journal .  2004-12-05.  Archived from the original on 2023-11-21 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 .  The article notes: "A product of consumer need, the APA is a national health organization that began as America's Pregnancy Helpline in 1995. The agency provides reproductive and women's wellness resources for thousands of women and families through education, research, advocacy and community awareness. Nineteen of the nation's top obstetricians and gynecologists make up the APA Medical Advisory Board, which directs educational content for the association."  Fox, Thomas C. (1997).  Catholicism on the Web .  New York: Henry Holt and Company .  pp. 311–312.  ISBN 1-55828-516-4 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 – via Internet Archive .  The book notes: "The America's Crisis Pregnancy Helpline Web site is a Dallas-based nonprofit organization designed to provide facts about the many services and resources available across the United States for women experiencing unplanned pregnancies. It is the stated goal of the Crisis Pregnancy Helpline to provide each woman with a sense of empowerment and hope and to connect her with services in her geographic area. It wants women to know there are positive options as well as people and organizations willing to assist her as she makes informed decisions about her future."  Blow, Steve (1996-07-17).  "Couple seeking children adopt mothers' cause" .  The Dallas Morning News .  Archived from the original on 2023-11-21 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 .  The article notes: "I remember the billboard. It said: "Mike and Anne Want to Adopt.  We Are State Approved. " And it gave a phone number. Maybe you remember a feature story we wrote about the unusual adoption strategy. There was a photo of Mike and Anne Sheaffer standing beneath the billboard. The story ran on New Year's Day last year. ... Mike enlisted some trusted employees in his company to help take the calls. He vowed that every caller would find a sympathetic listener and, where possible, help in meeting their immediate needs. ... Today, Mike oversees a full-fledged nonprofit agency - America's Crisis Pregnancy Helpline (1-800-67-BABY-6). It's a free, confidential referral service for women facing an unplanned pregnancy. And there are 10,000 such pregnancies each day in this country, Mike said."  Articles that provide background material about America's Pregnancy Helpline founders Mike and Annie Shaeffer but that do not mention the association so does not contribute to notability.  I am listing them here so that they can be used to provide more background material about the founders.  The sources: Aron, Jaime (1995-01-02).  "Getting the word out: North Texas couple gets hopeful response after billboard plea for baby" .  Waco Tribune-Herald .  Associated Press .  Archived from the original on 2023-11-21 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 – via Newspapers.com .  The article notes: "As their chances of adopting a child seemed to fade, Mike and Anne Sheaffer decided to take their search to the road. A week ago, two billboards went up announcing: "Mike and Anne want to adopt.  We are state approved.  (214) 675-BABY. " ... Since the ads went up in Dallas - one on a highway, the other on a main road - hundreds of people have called from across the country to offer the names of adoption agencies, stories and encouragement."  Macias, Anna (1995-01-01).  "Signs of Faith and Hope - Couple Employ Billboards in Effort to Adopt" .  The Dallas Morning News .  Archived from the original on 2023-11-21 .  Retrieved 2023-11-21 .  The article notes: "Anne and Mike Sheaffer are passionate about their desire to have a baby. The evidence is there for anyone driving past two billboards they have rented on busy thoroughfares. The signs, on the Dallas North Tollway and Lower Greenville Avenue, read: "Mike and Anne want to adopt.  We're state approved.  Call 675-BABY. " The couple have spent more than six years of marriage praying for a baby. But nature has not cooperated, and they are determined to adopt."  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the American Pregnancy Association to pass Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)#Primary criteria , which requires "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject".  Cunard ( talk ) 08:14, 21 November 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: keep