Botanical & Zoological Garden: For many years, the first example given at WP:PTM has been a zoo.  Most the entries in the disambiguation page have Zoo(logical) before Botanical rather than after.  The disambiguation page was recently created following Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2023_October_3#Botanical_&_Zoological_Garden .  Plantdrew ( talk ) 02:47, 11 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions .  North America 1000 06:44, 11 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] List of botanical gardens and List of zoos probably cover this, can someone go through the list and check?  We could create a convenience redirect List of zoological gardens to cover any searches a bit better.  -- Joy ( talk ) 14:26, 11 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep , clarifying that it also includes entities titled in the other order, "Zoological and Botanical Garden(s)".  Not all of these entities are existing zoos, or botanical gardens - hence Leeds Zoological and Botanical Gardens , which closed in 1858, is not included in List of zoological gardens and aquariums in United Kingdom but is a valid entry in this disambiguation page.  Pam D 07:37, 13 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] @ PamD is there a reason not to add a former place to that list?  There's nothing there that actually says 'currently in existence'.  -- Joy ( talk ) 14:41, 13 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] @ Joy I think many lists are taken to be "current only" and to exclude  former establishments: I know I tried to add a couple of closed colleges school to a list of schools in a county and they were removed with comment "This list for current, active and open institutions only" although no mention of such in the list itself! Some have a separate list for "former ...", but not all. Pam D 15:55, 13 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Maybe it makes sense to just have it at the bottom under a separate heading? -- Joy ( talk ) 17:10, 13 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Convert to a set index.  This is not properly a disambiguation page as none of the entries are known as simply 'Botanical & Zoological Garden' or variations thereof.  While the listing comes close to being afoul of WP:NOTDIRECTORY , but as the Leeds example suggests, such a listing may be a helpful index.  older ≠ wiser 10:23, 13 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, L iz Read!  Talk!  02:56, 18 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.  Relisting comment: Still no consensus here.  Please add new comments below this notice.  Thanks, L iz Read!  Talk!  02:26, 25 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep and convert to a set index, per Bkonrad .  Useful as a list of things so described, but not as a list of ambiguous uses of a specific phrase.  BD2412 T 02:52, 25 October 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: keep