Bethann Siviter: Probably a WP:BIO1E .  UtherSRG (talk) 11:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Note:  This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People , Authors , Women , Medicine , United Kingdom , England , United States of America ,  and Massachusetts .  UtherSRG (talk) 11:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Leaning keep .  A search of google books indicates that the Nursing Times have written two articles about her.  She is a published author.  She spoke about her cancer and treatment in interviews in local news .  There is local news about her.  She is not a WP:LOWPROFILE individual and therefore WP:BLP1E 's three criteria are not all met. (see WP:NOTBLP1E for more details on my logic). WP:BIO1E doesn't talk about deleting articles, it talks about helping us decide between a biography and an event article. My reading of it is that it directs us towards the biography in this case. CT55555 ( talk ) 15:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Weak Delete Definitely an involved creation, ( Context is here ) although I don't think it's an autobiography. I tried to clean it up , but couldn't get further as the sourcing just isn't there. Is there anything to @ Atlantic306 : 's dePROD rationale that might get her to notability that way? Otherwise I land on deletion, unfortunately, as there doesn't appear to be a merger target. Star Mississippi 16:22, 3 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Hi, have seen experienced editors say that high numbers of library book holdings indicates that there should be reviews of the book in reliable sources. Having done a google search I only found this journal review of her second book here which is unfortunately behind a paywall as others may also be, imv Atlantic306 ( talk ) 20:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete . In contrast to Star above, I would interpret this as an autobiography, given the short-lived nature (~1week) of the creating SPA. Her writings, including the Handbook, have low double-digit citations. There's no compelling assertion of notability. The article has been tagged for more than a dozen years. The sources are flimsy. 128.252.154.1 ( talk ) 20:56, 5 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 12:52, 10 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Weak keep I've gotten reviews from the Royal College of Nurses [18] and in various academic publications [19] , [20] , [21] . Her book is also listed as reading material for various nursing programs in the UK, I think it's notable. Oaktree b ( talk ) 14:14, 10 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] In the links above, the first is a 2-sentence capsule review by "Mary C, Nurse" on the publisher's website, which does not seem to help support WP:NBOOK or WP:AUTHOR notability. The second source appears to be an article she wrote for Nursing Standard , which similarly does not support notability. The third source is also written by Siviter; it helps verify aspects of her biography but does not support WP:BASIC notability. The fourth source is a book review written by Siviter, not about her work. Beccaynr ( talk ) 03:53, 16 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete With some sympathy for Oaktree b 's viewpoint, and respect for her work and role, I'm not convinced that we pass the bar of WP:GNG based on her authorship of The Student Nurse Handbook . People write vocational guidance all the time without being considered notable as a national figure. Best Alexandermcnabb ( talk ) 15:20, 10 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I'd be ok with a redirect to an article about the book itself. It seems to be the go-to (or one of a few) they tell the student nurses to get and it seems to have familiarity within the field. Oaktree b ( talk ) 15:22, 10 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Delete it per nom. Okoslavia ( talk ) 16:27, 10 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Keep or perhaps move with redirect to The Student Nurse Handbook which has a fair amount of citations, some of which are inline with attributed information: Stonehouse, "Who’s responsible and accountable? You are!", Siviter (2005) states that accountability involves using your professional skill and judgement, to enable you to make decisions that are in the best interests of your patients—and then, importantly, being able to justify why you made those decisions. Lamp, 2008 "Book Me" The Student Nurse Handbook is a guide on how to get into and survive a pre-registration nursing course. Covering a wide range of topics it helps students to: make the most of clinical placements; make drug dosage calculations and administer medica-tion; write assignments; avoid plagiarism; cope with stress; and, understand nursing models, theories and philosophies. Ashurst, 2008, Nursing & Residential Care, "Career progression: the administration of medicines" includes an in-depth summary of some information from the handbook. There are other citations I don't have access to. — siro χ o 19:30, 10 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment -  on ProQuest, there are two Nursing Standard reviews available ProQuest 219857891 ; ProQuest 219869320 ; the second one is brief (5 sentences). The Lamp source noted above is available on EBSCOhost but is not a review; it is a 2-sentence summary blurb. Beccaynr ( talk ) 01:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 04:21, 18 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Comment - this is an outline of my review of sources identified in this discussion, in the article, and my own research: My search of GBooks finds two results for the same 2008 Nursing Times source ( snippet [22] ); at ProQuest 197551015 , the available abstract includes "Hitchen talks about how Bethann Siviter and Sylvia Kenneth, disabled nurses, overcome their disabilities. Siviter, who was eight months into the position of a consultant nurse at South Birmingham Primary Care Trust when, on Jan 1, 2006, woke up with a high fever that left her with mobility difficulties and long-term pain. Ms Siviter was declared fit to return to work and was able to retain her role as a consultant nurse for older people but her duties were different." (Hitchen, Lisa, Nursing Times : NT; London Vol. 104, Iss. 21, (May 27-Jun 2, 2008): 16-8.) There is brief 2022 coverage in the Birmingham Mail that notes she "worked as an NHS consultant and community nurse for 26 years. She was diagnosed with a rare form of endocrine cancer in 2019" and she "also wrote the Royal College of Nursing's student handbook" but is otherwise focused on coverage from WP:DAILYMIRROR related to her delayed surgery and her statements of support for the nurses' strike (there is no consensus on the reliability of the Daily Mirror , which also reports similar biographical information).  From my view, this brief, sensationalized coverage does not transform her into a high-profile individual according to the WP:LOWPROFILE essay.  At ProQuest 323712684 , she is quoted in her capacity as chairwoman of the RCN Association of Nursing Students in 2002 Birmingham Post coverage, "Registration delays leave vital nurses stranded without jobs."  There is also a 2011 source from Pretoria News on ProQuest with "Credit: Daily Mail" ( WP:DAILYMAIL ) at the end, and further appears unusable based on the content and because it is largely based on Siviter discussing a non-notable third-party who has a presumption in favor of privacy .  In the article, there is a 2004 announcement of a book with quotes from her, and some limited biographical content, published in the Stourbridge News , a free local newspaper.  This does not appear to support WP:NBOOK notability and seems to offer limited support for WP:BASIC notability.  The article also cites a July 2005 Newsletter of the Elderly Services Directorate entry she wrote, with biographical information she provides, which is not independent.  Based on my review above of Oaktree b's list of sources [23] , these sources do not provide independent support for WP:NBOOK or WP:AUTHOR notability.  A Nursing Standard review of The Newly Qualified Nurse's Handbook – A Survival Guide (Louise Nadal, 22, 50, 31) was noted above by Atlantic306; this is the brief review I referred to above [24] available at ProQuest 219869320 (Vol.  22, Iss.  50, (Aug 20-Aug 26, 2008): 31) - it is for "Siviter's sequel publication to the Student Nurse Handbook" and rates the book "*** Good" out of five stars.  The other Nursing Standard review noted in my comment, "The Student Nurse Handbook: A Survival Guide - Second edition" (Vol.  23, Iss.  21, (Jan 28-Feb 3, 2009): 30) is more in-depth, rates the book "****" and is somewhat mixed - overall the book is praised, and also includes, "The only downside is the inclusion of chapters focusing on banding and roles, which may lead to the book becoming prematurely out of date."  So we have two books, with one independent review apiece currently available, which is not sufficient to support WP:AUTHOR notability for a collective body of work, nor WP:NBOOK notability for either book.  Also on ProQuest, there are various nursing-related sources that quote her, i.e. Nursing-related sources quoting Siviter ProQuest 219804330 "Cost of childcare pushing students into hardship", Murray, Karen.  Nursing Standard ; London Vol.  16, Iss.  23, (Feb 20-Feb 26, 2002):  6. ("RCN association of nursing students chair Bethann Siviter said [...], [...] Ms Siviter said.") ProQuest 219800393 "Students should be taught first aid as part of training", Duffin, Christian.  Nursing Standard ; London Vol.  16, Iss.  33,  (May 1-May 7, 2002):  7. ("RCN association of nursing students chair Bethann Siviter said first aid courses featuring cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) could save lives." (with a quote)) ProQuest 219823533 "Equal measures", Murray, Karen.  Nursing Standard ; London Vol.  16, Iss.  34, (May 8-May 14, 2002): 12-3 ("[RCN association of nursing students (ANS)] chair Bethann Siviter says: [...] She adds [...] Ms Siviter says [...] Ms Siviter adds: [...]") ProQuest 230483603 "The human face of nursing" Andalo, Debbie. " Nursing Management ; London Vol. 10, Iss. 4, (Jul 2003): 10-2. This source examines "life and work and the legacy [Maude Storey] has left for the nursing profession" ("RCN council student member Bethann Siviter admits it is a pity that so few student nurses know the difference her work has made to their lives. " followed by a quote ProQuest 219814333 "Mentor shortages could scupper 'foundation year'" Duffin, Christian.  Nursing Standard ; London Vol.  18, Iss.  50, (Aug 25-Aug 31, 2004):  7. ("Former ANS chair Bethann Siviter said [...] Ms Siviter, the author of a handbook on becoming a model student, said [...], [...] Ms Siviter said.") ProQuest 219828652 "New kid in town", Duffin, Christian.  Nursing Standard ; London Vol.  19, Iss.  13,  (Dec 8-Dec 14, 2004): 12-3.  ("Bethann Siviter, district nurse team leader in the West Midlands and an American citizen, has concerns. The challenge for UK universities, she says, [...] Ms Siviter, from Rowley Regis and Tipton Primary Care Trust, wonders [...] Ms Siviter backs the idea of PAs in principle, but says [...])  ProQuest 218612614 WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?, Duffin, Christian. Nursing Older People ; London Vol. 21, Iss. 3, (Apr 2009): 18-21., this source "examines the findings of a survey of readers of the RCN Publishing Company specialist journals" ("Bethann Siviter, a nurse consultant for older people from Birmingham, says of the results [...] Ms Siviter comments: [...]) ProQuest 219841777 "Latest sickness absence figures show increase among NHS nurses" Snow, Tamsin.   Nursing Standard (through 2013); London Vol.  24, Iss.  25,  (Feb 24-Mar 2, 2010):  6. ("Nurse consultant in caring for older people Bethann Siviter had nine months sick leave last year after falling on a wet floor at work. She told Nursing Standard: [...]; Ms Siviter plans to take part in a debate at RCN congress in April on giving healthcare workers priority access to health services." - this says what she plans to do, not what she did at the RCN congress.  ProQuest 1346147167 "OPENING DOORS TO JOB EQUALITY" Kendall-Raynor, Petra.  Nursing Standard ; London Vol.  27, Iss.  32, (Apr 10-Apr 16, 2013): 62-3.  ("Nurse consultant Bethann Siviter, who became disabled following an illness, says there remains a lack of insight into disability: (with a quote) [...] Ms Siviter is unable to attend RCN congress this year, but she will be following closely a discussion topic [...] about whether disability discrimination exists in the NHS.") - this says what she plans to do, not what she did during the RCN congress.  There is a source with commentary and context on some of her other writing: ProQuest 1370336734 "Respond to criticism with action", Young, Lynn.  Primary Health Care ; London Vol.  23, Iss.  5, (Jun 2013): 3 ("Siviter's thought-provoking columns in Primary Health Care offer a delightful, interesting and intensely personal perspective on nursing and the impact it can have on those who provide and those who receive. [...] She has been shortlisted for a prestigious award, the Professional Publishers Association columnist of the year.") - this is not entirely independent because it is published by the publication she has written for; the award shortlist appears to be independent.  ProQuest 1400446299 There is also "No task too great for is my hero Taska the wonder dog", Varma, Anuji.  Birmingham Mail ; Birmingham (UK).  03 July 2013: 24.  This is a profile of her and others, with quotes from her.  This source states Siviter "was paired with the labrador in November 2011 through Canine Partners and the charity believes three-year-old Taska is the only assistance dog to be working with an active NHS nurse."  Otherwise, there appears to mostly be results for her writing on ProQuest, or briefer mentions, e.g. ProQuest 219831127 "Save as you learn", Bal, Rosalind.  Nursing Standard ; London Vol.  20, Iss.  3, (Sep 28-Oct 4, 2005): 36-37.  ("Finally, read The Student Nurse Handbook: A Survival Guide by Bethann Siviter, published by BaillièreTindall, price £10.99. It offers practical advice to inspire and encourage you to complete your course and become a nurse.") - this sources does not seem to help support WP:NBOOK or WP:AUTHOR .  Overall, I have been looking for ways to either develop an article about a book and/or support an article about Siviter according to policies and guidelines; at this time, I find it challenging to consider the sources identified in this discussion as sufficient independent and reliable support for notability according to the WP:BASIC or WP:AUTHOR guidelines, and WP:NBOOK also does not appear supported.  We have some independent biographical and career information, and some secondary coverage, so I am leaning weak delete .  Beccaynr ( talk ) 21:34, 18 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] No worries if you don't want to investigate further, but if you do, how do you feel about the (Ashurst, 2008, Nursing & Residential Care, "Career progression: the administration of medicines") source for NBOOK?  — siro χ o 22:19, 18 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I can find an abstract of the source: "The administration of medicines is often an area of concern for newly qualified nurses. Adrian Ashurst discusses the principles of safe storage and best practice in the first of two articles", so it does not appear to be a book review, and based on your description it does not appear to contribute substantial support for "how widely the book is cited by other academic publications or in the media" according to the WP:TEXTBOOKS guideline.  Beccaynr ( talk ) 22:48, 18 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Apologies, I should have linked it, I'm never sure about WP:TWL links.  Hope this link works [25] — siro χ o 23:12, 18 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] I found it on EBSCOhost - the author cites themselves several times, and includes a table summary of "The Five Rights" (not referring to legal rights) related to dispensing the right medication in the right dose to the right person at the right time in the right way, cited to Siviter's 2004 book.  This is not secondary commentary or analysis of her work, and not particularly helpful for supporting notability, because it is an example of her work being cited.  Beccaynr ( talk ) 23:47, 18 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] Thanks for checking it out, wasn't sure how much weight to give it.  I generally agree with your analysis, it's a borderline case to be sure, and I was hoping a move/rework to an article about the book might be an easy solution, but it looks like not.  — siro χ o 23:59, 18 July 2023 (UTC) [ reply ] The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.  Please do not modify it.  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review ).  No further edits should be made to this page.

Discussion outcome: no consensus