Thanks Mackan for the assist  I am not sure I follow all points contested above if anyones wondering no I did not find the oafishness or general vulgarity of mind displayed on that talk page to be lovable  I am not particularly exercised about this and though I think the block was illegitimate I have no plan to pursue the matter further  The only statement in this thread that I find objectionable is Shells professed wish to see me take civility more seriously in the future  I take civility very seriously Shell indeed I believe I take it more seriously than you do  I think your careless suggestion to the contrary  like the illconsidered block itself  reflects a slack even indefensible understanding of WPCIVIL wherein the only measure of incivility is the temperature of remarks   I am also a little puzzled by your reading of nine or ten identical fratboy beer belches as a commendable effort to keep things light  We all have different sensibilities and youre certainly entitled to yours  But be aware that here is my attempt to keep things light in the face of obstructionism  Note that in this case there is a point to the playfulness the weight authority influence and reliability of sources is not  contra Jayjg  a function of their print run  Jays response to this lightness was to say again and again that I had strawmanned him while steadfastly refusing to clarify his point or show how Id distorted it then to attack me directly and personally and say Ive never in the past shown the grace or honesty to admit when Ive lied about such matters and so was unlikely to admit my deceptions in this instance  And then began the beerbelching fratboy hazing extravaganza you found so commendably charming  All of this in a thread that began with Jays personal attack on PR alongside the spurious point downplaying Haaretz as a source  the same spurious point all subsequent accurate references to which he dismissed as strawmen    One girls trash is anothers treasure Shell and while you have the right to be charmed by what you find charming you shouldnt conclude that those with different sensibilities have manners less beautiful than yours  Suffering fools gladly is not the only measure of Wikipedia etiquette