Introductions and order   The exchange below began between  and  on personal talk pages  With Terreyos permision I have pasted the discussion here as I think it is relevant to the editing of the page and may be of interest to other editors     Specifically about NPOV as it manifests in the Dianetics article  Untill a subject is introduced it can not be argued  The latest and greatest One more try intertwines two points of view Ill grant that  But dont you see all the discussion on the page from everyone who has done some Dianetics saying This article makes no sense it isnt something that can be followed even by a person knowledgeable in Dianetics  Dont you see that happening  The problem is real real simple  You seem to be creating an article that says Dianetics is a controversial subject      Well that is all right as far as it goes  But it does not make clear what Dianetics is do you see the problem  I believe the reason why is simply that Dianetics is never allowed to be introduced because you have to make the article have controversy in every damn line of it     No Terryeo I dont think controversy and criticism belong in every line and I think if you look closely at what Ive written youll see that isnt the case  I know you wish it were otherwise but the social consensus about Dianetics is at odds with the way Hubbard and Scientologists view it  Readers should be informed of this from the outsetit is the social context in which Dianetics exists That doesnt mean that Hubbards ideas cant be fairly represented and I think they should be     I did look closely at what you wrote the very first line of it had a lie in it an unverifiable statement  I am very glad you used the word context because that is exactly my point  If you will look at this wiki link about introductions it tells you where context should appear in an introduction and it is an important thing to know  However it is not to appear in the first line of an introduction  I am simply following wiki policy here and please get off the I know you think it should be otherwise because i am going to continue to insist on wiki policy being followed  Here is the link which tells when in an introduction context should be stated  WikipediaIntroductions  First the term is introduced  In the case of Dianetics  the introduction of the term should probably include its origins because it is a word created from Greek roots unfamilar to many people  Then after the term itself is introduced the topic needs be introduced  This is the policy read it right there  Then after the topic is introduced so readers can know what is being talked about then at that point context  It is not that you are doing things wrong but slightly out of sequence for a reader to be able to understand okay Happy New Year     Terryeo Id suggest that this sort of discussion take place on the articles talk page in the future since it is likley to be seen as relevant by other editors  As to the policy about introductions I find it hard to believe you mean this seriously The guideline says that the introduction defines the term and topic and context it says nothing about the order in which those things are presented And introducing a term rarely involves spelling out the etymology of the term Again it doesnt all need to happen in the short intro  Look at line  of that intro guideline     BTfromLA what part of term topic context is unclear to you  Term this means the word itself  Topic this means the topic itself  The Wiki Policy makes this clear it spells it out A B C  What is your argument  It does not say Context and controversy first and then when people understand the whole subject is nothing but a controversy and should be left alone and never understood then introduces the definition of the term No it does not say Stuff these things in the intro any way you want to  It says Term  Topic Context  A and then B and then C  okay  It says everything about the order of presentation  First is says Term How simple can it be you got to tell your student the meaning of the word you use  Then it says topic  How simple can it be you have to tell the student what you are going to be talking about  Then after that after people know what the topic is then then is the time for context okay  You read any good ariticle on Wiki and you will find this procedure followed This IS wiki policy  This IS the source of the ar