Hey Jeff you seem to have missed the point entirely  Wikipedias talk pages are for discussing the article and how it needs to be changed  Given that Firefly is proving to be a failure at the box office by the well accepted formula of Movie Cost  Box Office Take I am suggesting we start formulating a way to add that to the article  I mention my love of the movie only to avoid the fans who might try to POV push because they dont want to face the awful truth  I would suggest you take more time to help with the discussion on what should be said here rather than pull out an unneeded and rather silly soap box  We are talking about sourceable information Jeff you just are not listening  Additional to say we cant mention our like or dislike of the film seems to suggest you think personal opinion cant be expressed on Wikipedia Talk pages  Well it can be expressed and it should be expressed  We all have natural bias by talking about our opinions we help others to identify our bias making it easier to critique our additions  Furthermore Wikipedia is a community and were having fun  Im sorry you cant seem to handle that Now what Im trying to say is that we need to stop POV pushing on the article  Yes were fans and we dont like to admit Serenity flopped but the truth is it has  My suggestion is we data mine other movies which have performed as poorly and use a similar language