I know and as you say in principal I agree with you But I think we should do this slowly carefully and completely this time Make no mistake consensus is definitely against including the irrelevant material in question but this has become so tendentious a topic absorbing so much time to deal with nearcontinuously that very little of substance has gone into the article for quite some time I think the only way to get it firmly thoroughly finished is to gain such overwhelming consensus that it becomes impossible to continue arguing for a while If this requires a long process of dispute resolution and eventual administrative intervention so be it Once it is done it could be placed in the FAQ with admin blessings and from then on dealt with summarily At this point Id rather go the slow laborious route than the one that allows any wikigaming or false claims    Comments Im putting this in a separate section because I want to leave the one above to accrue peoples thoughts and opinions Now then  On  If Obama loses the election the campaign efforts of his opponents will demonstrably have had a significant effect on his life and therefore would merit more prominent placement in the articles about that life a prime example is John McCains biography which notes the smears illegitimate black child etc that contributed to his loss in  But until then the stuff about Ayers is simply campaign innuendo and mudslinging much more appropriate for the campaign article So my question to those of you who disagree with  is this What exactly is the pertinence of discredited campaign claims to Obamas life story at this time In all seriousness I dont get it There are entire branches of his family that arent mentioned in the article and yet are presumably more important to his life story than these claims  On  This one is a simple matter to prove or disprove If a reliable news organization outside of the context of campaign claims has discovered evidence that links Obama and Ayers more deeply  for example evidence that Obama was Ayers protegee or that Obama secretly admires Ayers past  that would make all the difference Those of you who disagree with  on which news articles are you relying for that disagreement Certainly news articles that lend credence to the ObamaAyers connection as suggested may theoretically appear in the future But we can only reach consensus on whats currently available If such a news article appears  would of course need to be dropped If such a news article exists now Id like to see it but if its an opinion blog editorial or story from a biased source please understand that it doesnt pass muster here  On  Please see my responses on  and  If Ive changed your mind then I suppose you agree now on  If not Id like to see your thoughts on my responses above  Specific to Noroton I wasnt responding to your argument I was making a proposal for consensus