Comment   My comments on Malleus talk page were well beyond civil even for a user talk page They were a personal attack and warranted serious sanction   For the record it was a simple spontaneous eruption of contempt mingled with rage Some have muttered that I went to his page to harass him thats not the case I went to continue a discussion that had been interrupted by earlier admin action Some are muttering that I went there to bait or poke him into a block I appreciate the complement but my Machiavellian intelligence is nonexistant Obviously   I lost respect for Malleus when he said You already succeeded in getting me blocked so I can only presume that youre trying to repeat the trick I had made it clear that I had no intention of getting him blocked he knew it and yet regurgitated this populist slur Thats where he opened the door for my unmitigated opinion  But my rant wasnt aimed at the dishonesty I perceived in that comment that simply gave me permission to express a much deeper revulsion thats been building in me over the last few months with respect to this project   Its a feeling so Im not sure I can make it clear A kind of nauseous disgust Its to do with how we deal with the hurt we may cause others other editors our subjects and our readers Im pleased to see the faltering steps being taken toward a more civil ethos here Those who actually know me know that means a great deal to me There is a long way to go Pesky pointed out that finding the right form of words for whats required is difficult I agree Thats the challenge The right form of words will emerge if we discuss these questions enough  With regard to respectful discourse between editors Malleus has been addressing the real root of the civility problem here for years Telling someone to fuck off or calling them a cunt is obviously uncivil and an easy call for an admin But the real evil here is not Malleus and me calling each other names its the sleazy aside from one editor to another undermining the reputation of a third One editor can bully or badger another for days or weeks without ever calling them a name and its their victim that cops a block when they respond accordingly So Im glad to see more admins taking civility seriously but youre going to have to work on the sophistication of your approach  Im disgusted by the way this project treats its readers with regard to controversial images The bit that disgusts me is the mantra that we dont care if we offend our readers Seriously That has been repeated ad nauseam during the Muhammad images debates and others I can see no excuse for that attitude and dont want to participate in an enterprise that has that attitude towards its readership  And finally contempt for our subjects I first noticed this on a BLP A teenage girl and her boyfriend made a sex tape Later when she was a minor local celebrity the tape was posted on the net without her permission Its there now Google her name and sex tape and you got it Shes now won a TV competition so is becoming better known  The tapes existence has been mentioned a few times in the press but not much and usually the nudge nudge lucky bastard type of comment but it doesnt seem to have affected her career or even her private life An RfC asked Should we mention the tape Policywise you can make a case for its inclusion but its borderline What really disgusted me was the utter unconcern of many editors for the effect our inclusion of the factoid would have on the visibility of the tape and the consequent effect this would have on the woman I wont elaborate further you either get it or you dont  And it was concern for the subject of a BLP that brought Malleus and me together He was arguing for the preservation of a borderline notable BLP that the subject said was distressing him I argued that it should go simply because its borderline notable and the subject doesnt want it   Although Malleus asserted the wishes of the subject are irrelevant an assertion he is incapable of justifying and a position I find morally repugnant he deemed it appropriate to also declare the subjects claim of distress is implausible Unfortunately Jimbo had already primed me with a similar judgment Jimbo had ignored my response so I thought Id add a little emphasis when I explained my view to Malleus  Ive suffered chronic pain and fatigue since I had an unnecessary medical intervention at the age of  months I spent a lifetime trying to explain how I feel to others and being met with a solid wall of skepticism Ive made it my business to understand the science of pain and more broadly the science of suffering   I and pain science in general know that nobody nobody nobody nobody nobody got it knows how much a person is suffering from a given stimulus We know that a stimulus that barely troubles one person can crush another We know that some are masters at hiding their pain while others are shameless and highly convincing exaggerators That is people informed by the science of pain are very aware of their inability to estimate anothers pain The more expertise you have in this field the humbler you become about estimating others pain The less you know the more confident  So I am enraged by Malleus and Jimbos temerity in summarily declaring it implausible that the existence of a benign BLP might cause significant distress to its subject Those obviously shallow judgments clearly informed their thinking on the AfD But that thinking is the norm here So Ill leave this place to Jimbo Malleus and the rest   One last thought Like many internet communities this is a magnet for social outcasts of one colour or another The bedridden the housebound the lonely the frightened the hated This is a good thing Most outcasts I know are good people and this provides a place where they can do a lot of unalloyed good in the company of others But the project needs to face the corollary that there will be an effect on the ethos here When a bunch of rejects get together and tries to form a society ad hoc theyll make mistakes that stem from poorly honed social sensitivity It is highly likely that the social norms regarding each other our subjects and the world at large our readership will be a poor fit for people of normal social sensibility This matters It is only just beginning to be addressed starting with heightened attention to civility but theres a long way to go and the more these questions are discussed the sooner well evolve into something that can seamlessly and responsibly engage with the world community