[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
MADE BY MADURO: THE
HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN VENEZUELA AND U.S. POLICY RESPONSES
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 26, 2019
__________
Serial No. 116-7
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
or www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
35-365PDF WASHINGTON : 2019
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman
BRAD SHERMAN, California MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida JOE WILSON, South Carolina
KAREN BASS, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts TED S. YOHO, Florida
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
DINA TITUS, Nevada ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota JOHN CURTIS, Utah
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota KEN BUCK, Colorado
COLIN ALLRED, Texas RON WRIGHT, Texas
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania GREG PENCE, Indiana
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
DAVID TRONE, Maryland MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
JIM COSTA, California
JUAN VARGAS, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
Jason Steinbaum, Staff Director
Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida, Ranking
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas Member
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota TED S. YOHO, Florida
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan JOHN CURTIS, Utah
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas KEN BUCK, Colorado
JUAN VARGAS, California MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
Sadaf Khan, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
WITNESSES
Escobari, Marcela, Senior Fellow For Global Economy and
Development, Center for Universal Education, Brookings
Institution.................................................... 21
Canton, Santiago, Former Executive Secretary, Inter-American
Commission on Human Rights..................................... 30
Rendon, Moises, Associate Director and Associate Fellow, Americas
Program, Center for Strategic and International Studies........ 38
STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Hon. Albio Sires, chairman of the subcommittee................... 3
Representative Yoho for Ambassador Rooney........................ 8
Representative Meeks............................................. 13
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 59
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 60
Hearing Attendance............................................... 61
ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Amensty International letter submitted from Representative Levin. 62
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
Question submitted to Ms. Marcela Escobari from Chairman Sires... 70
Question submitted to Mr. Santiago Canton from Representative
Levin.......................................................... 73
MADE BY MADURO: THE HUMANITARIAN
CRISIS IN VENEZUELA AND U.S. POLICY RESPONSES
Tuesday, February 26, 2019
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
Civilian Security, and Trade
Committee on Foreign Affairs
Washington, DC
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:08 p.m., in
Room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Sires. This hearing will come to order.
This hearing titled Made by Maduro: The Humanitarian Crisis
in Venezuela and U.S. Policy Responses will focus on the
political, economic, and human rights crisis in Venezuela, and
ways for the international community to support the Venezuelan
people.
Without objection, all members may have 5 days to submit
statements, questions, extraneous material for the record,
subject to the length limitation in the rules. I will now make
an opening statement and then turn it over to the ranking
member for his opening statement.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you to our witnesses
for being here today for such a timely and important topic.
This is our first subcommittee hearing of the 116th Congress,
and I just want to say that I am looking forward to working
with every member of this committee, including Ranking Member
Rooney and Vice Chair Meeks, to bring much-needed attention to
the Western Hemisphere.
Today the Venezuelan people are suffering under a
humanitarian crisis caused by authoritarian leader Nicolas
Maduro. Since Maduro came to power in 2013, he has consistently
repressed human rights. Under his command, security forces have
arbitrarily detained and abused thousands of protesters,
committed acts of torture and forced disappearances, and
carried out hundreds of brutal killings, all with the single
goal of eliminating any and all opposition.
Just yesterday we saw another assault on democracy when
Maduro detained American journalist Jorge Ramos for hours just
because he did not like the questions he was being asked.
Maduro has caused an economic collapse that has left nearly
90 percent of Venezuelans in poverty, and forced over 3 million
Venezuelans to leave their country. While average Venezuelans
suffer from crippling inflation and shortages of food and
medicine, Maduro and his cronies have enriched themselves
through drug trafficking and money laundering.
Maduro's illegitimate reelection last year cemented his
position as a dictator. If there was any doubt, one just needs
to examine this weekend's event when Maduro thugs burned tons
of boxes of food and medicine. He would rather see his people
starve and suffer than face the truth.
It is clear from the massive demonstrations that have been
taking place that Venezuelans have had enough. They are
demanding an end to Maduro's reign of terror. At this pivotal
moment the United States must stand by the Venezuelan people
and on the side of democracy. I have joined many of my
colleagues in recognizing the interim President Juan Guaido and
calling for swift elections that are free, fair, and
transparent.
I believe the U.S. must work closely with allies in Latin
America and Europe to help the Venezuelan people reclaim their
fundamental rights and restore democracy. And we must take note
of the regimes that are enabling Maduro.
Cuba continues to provide intelligence support to Maduro to
prevent military officials from defecting to the side of
democracy. And Russia and Turkey are providing financial
lifelines to keep Maduro afloat. The international community
should be unified in calling for an immediate peaceful
transition that swiftly leads to free and fair elections in
which every political party is allowed to participate in fully
competitive conditions, as guaranteed by international
observers.
To achieve that goal, we must apply maximum diplomatic and
economic pressure on Maduro and do all we can to support the
Venezuelan people. That is why I have joined my colleagues in
working to hold Maduro accountable, while providing aid to
address the humanitarian crisis. I have joined Congressman Soto
in calling for the U.S. to grant temporary protected status to
Venezuelans fleeing this crisis. And I cosponsored legislation
proposed by Congresswoman Mucarsel-Powell which will authorize
the President to direct $150 million in humanitarian assistance
to the people of Venezuela.
As we ramp up the pressure under Maduro, we need to be
thinking also about the day after he is gone and how we can
support the Venezuelan people to rebuild not just their
democracy but their economy.
I look forward to hearing from the experts with us today
about what further steps the U.S. Government can take in close
coordination with our allies to help the Venezuelan people
reclaim their democracy.
Thank you. And I now turn to the ranking member for his
opening statement, Congressman Yoho.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sires follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Mr. Yoho. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate it. And I am going to
read Ambassador Rooney's opening statement.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The current humanitarian and
economic catas--thank you, catastrophe, that word, plaguing
Venezuela is unprecedented in our hemisphere. The socialist
policies, corruption, and economic mismanagement by the Maduro
regime have destroyed what was once the most prosperous, the
most prosperous country in Latin America and created one of the
greatest exoduses of people, wealth, and talent in recent
historical memories. Up to 3 million people have fled
Venezuela.
We said this on a news conference yesterday. You know, if
it is doing so well, the Maduro regime is doing so well, why
would 3 million people of your own country want to leave,
destabilizing the region and most severely impacting our strong
ally Colombia, and all of South America?
Of course, an illegitimate dictator like Maduro refuses to
accept responsibility for the current crisis. Blaming the
United States will never explain hyperinflation exceeding 2
million percent I read the other day--I do not know how that is
possible--or an average Venezuelan losing over 20 pounds in
body weight due to malnutrition. Instead, Maduro ignores the
suffering of the Venezuelan people and continues to block
humanitarian aid from entering his country.
I comment the Trump administration for leading the effort
to bring humanitarian assistance to the Venezuelan people in
response to interim President Guido's request.
I also applaud Colombian President Duque, who we met with
last week, and Brazilian President Bolsonaro for their support
and strong commitment to democracy and freedom for the
Venezuelan people. The Maduro regime also refuses to listen to
the request of the Venezuelan people, and has violently cracked
down on peaceful dissent and committed serious human rights
violation and abuses, including torture and death.
Just this past weekend security forces are believed to have
killed at least 25 people and injured more than 285 because
they dared to protest. He has usurped the power of the
democratically elected National Assembly and destroyed
Venezuela's democratic institutions, while ignoring
condemnation from the international community. The Maduro
regime is not one elected officials chosen by--is not one of
elected officials chosen by the Venezuelan people but criminals
who run a mafia-like enterprise to enrich themselves at the
expense of ordinary Venezuelans.
Just last week we had a meeting where we found out that
over $11 billion was pilfered off of the petroleum companies
that have enriched the upper echelons of the Maduro regime at
the expense of the Venezuelan people.
The mafia State has not risen to power on its own. U.S.
adversaries--and keep in mind it goes back to what our parents
taught us as kids, you become who you hang around with--U.S.
adversaries like Russia, Cuba, China, Iran, and Morales of
Bolivia support the Maduro regime. That should tell you right
there they are on the wrong side. Cuban officials are embedded
in the Venezuelan military to the point where Maduro relies on
the security forces of the Cuban regime for support because he
cannot trust his own people.
Russia and Iran see Venezuela as a disruptive thorn in the
side of the United States. And China exploits a corrupt regime
for discounted oil and access to resources. This is the real
foreign interference we should be talking about. The
illegitimate Maduro regime also has ties to drug trafficking
and other illicit activities, and the Venezuelan people are the
first victims of this corruption and cronyism. Over the last
month the Venezuelan people have stood up to the Maduro regime
and demanded the return of Venezuela to the prosperous, free
nation it once was.
President, interim President Juan Guaido has certified a
united movement against the Maduro regime, and it has gained
the recognition of over 50 countries. Maduro wants to blame the
U.S. for this, but this is 50 international companies--
countries that have stood up to this. Again, I commend the
Trump administration's strong support for Guaido and the
Venezuelan people, and support the calls for free and fair
elections in Venezuela as soon as conditions allow for them.
And I strongly support the continuation of sanctions against
the Maduro regime and the use of all economic tools at our
disposal to hold them accountable for the crimes.
There is much work to be done for Venezuela to regain its
freedom, and freedom they will regain because the Venezuelan
people grew up in this generation of liberties and freedoms and
he is trying to snatch that away from them. They will not
tolerate that. And that on itself is enough to change that
regime.
I am encouraged by the efforts of the administration and
Special Representative Elliott Abrams to achieves these goals
and coordination with our regional allies, and further hope my
Democrat and Republican colleagues here in Congress will work
together to present a united front against the Maduro regime
that will encourage other nations to be on the right side of
history.
I look forward to the hearing. And, Mr. Chairman, I yield
back. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rooney follows:].
AMBASSADOR ROONEY OPENING STATEMENT
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Mr. Sires. Thank you. Thank you, Congressman Yoho.
We are going to open it up for 1-minute remarks by the
members. Vice Chair Meeks, you have it.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I am going to
submit my full statement for the record. I will summarize it
real quickly in this 1 minute.
You know, clearly, to see what is happening to the people
of Venezuela is heartbreaking to witness. When we talk about
the scenario and human lives being lost in many instances and
people going hungry, and no one wants to stand by and see such
tragedies. But I do believe that it is important that the Lima
Group and some of our allies in the region take the lead on
this. It is just too much, I think, that it seems as though
with our past history in the region, in Central and South
America, and some of the bellicose talks that are going on
about military threats, that hurts getting things done.
I appreciate the fact that I see how and such with not a
lot of bellicose that Peru, and Colombia, and Brazil, those
border States have been dealing with. I look forward to
questioning the witnesses and going and pursuing this a little
bit further.
But I submit my full statement for the record.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Meeks follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Yoho, 1-minute remark.
Mr. Yoho. One minute. You know, we look at this. And we met
with the interim Ambassador that has been placed in that
position that we recognize, and what I see is not, this is just
not about Venezuela. This is about the other nations that we
talked about, Cuba, China, Russia, Iran, Bolivia. These are all
anti-western democracies. And the Rubicon is Venezuela. If the
Maduro regime fails, so does Cuba because they have invested so
much over the course of the years, and the same with Russia.
This is something that we have over 70 million displaced
refugees around the world because of conflict. We have the
potential, having millions more that we have never seen in this
country coming through our southern border. And this is
something that we need to have a peaceful resolution as soon as
possible.
And I look forward to this hearing.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. Congressman Espaillat.
Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Although I have in the past been outspoken against any form
of military intervention by our nation--we cannot continue to
be the policeman of the world--I am very distressed to see what
is occurring in Venezuela, particularly yesterday. We saw how
Jorge Ramos and his Univision crew were detained for 2 hours
when he showed Maduro a film of the children, Venezuelan
children eating off a garbage truck. That has been protested by
the entire world, including Mexico who has been somewhat
ambivalent about what is happening in Venezuela, they protested
this.
And yesterday Jorge Ramos and his crew were deported from,
forcefully moved from Venezuela. That is, Mr. Chairman,
troubling because the eyes of the world must be on what is
happening there. The whole world must be watching what is
happening there. We cannot be blindfolded to that. And that is
an egregious act against humanity.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Vargas.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. And thank you
for holding this hearing.
I have to say that I am very distressed with what is
happening in Venezuela. Venezuela has been a very proud
country. In fact, has the largest oil reserves in the world. It
has been a country that has historically been very wealthy in
Latin America and on the move. And to see what has happened to
it under Maduro is tragic. It has become a failed state.
And also to reiterate what has happened to Jorge Ramos, a
lot of us see Jorge Ramos as the Walter Cronkite of Spanish
news. Someone that we always trust. He is very straightforward
in what he says. And to see him, see what happened to him and
his crew, how they were manhandled, and mishandled, and
mistreated was really tragic because we need to see with the
eyes, I think, of a very honest newsperson like himself what is
going on there.
So, again, I am very happy that we are having this hearing
today. And I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman and the ranking
member.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Let me introduce first Ms. Marcela Escobari, Senior Fellow
in the Center for Universal Education at Brookings where she is
leading the Workforce of the Future Initiative. She spent the
last year of President Obama's administration as an assistant
administrator of the U.S. Agency for International
Development's Bureau for Latin America and the Caribbean,
focusing its initiatives on poverty, inequality, citizen
security, and governance.
Since 2007, Ms. Escobari served as the Executive Director
of the Center for International Development at Harvard
University. She has also worked as head of the Americas Region
at the OTF Group where she advised governments on poverty
alleviation through private enterprise.
We welcome you again. Thank you.
We will then hear from Mr. Santiago Canton who currently
serves as Secretary of Human Rights for the Province of Buenos
Aires. In 2017, he was appointed by the Organization of
American States' Secretary General Luis Almagro as one of three
experts to join an independent panel to examine the human
rights situation in Venezuela. Mr. Canton was formerly director
of RFK Partners for Human Rights at the Robert F. Kennedy
Center for Justice and Human Rights.
Before joining the RFK Center, Mr. Canton was the Executive
Secretary of the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights for
11 years, after serving as the first Special Rapporteur for
Freedom of Expression in the Inter-American System. He also
served as Director for Latin America and the Caribbean for the
National Democratic Institute for International Affairs as a
political assistant to former United States President Jimmy
Carter.
Welcome.
Finally, we will hear from Moises Rendon, Associate
Director and Associate Fellow of the Center for Strategic and
International Studies, Americas Program. His research focuses
on Latin American States in transition, trade and investment,
governance and transparency, and U.S. foreign policy toward
Latin America, with particular emphasis on Venezuela. He is a
native Venezuelan.
Thank you all for being here. Now we will go to testimony.
Ms. Escobari, you have 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MARCELA ESCOBARI, SENIOR FELLOW FOR GLOBAL ECONOMY
AND DEVELOPMENT, CENTER FOR UNIVERSAL EDUCATION, BROOKINGS
INSTITUTION
Ms. Escobari. Thank you, Chairman Sires and members of the
committee for calling this hearing and for the opportunity to
testify today. I will be summarizing my views and ask that my
full testimony be placed in the record.
Venezuela presents a complex situation for a humanitarian
response, where there is a legitimate, widely recognized, and
democratically elected entity in the National Assembly, and now
interim President Juan Guaido . However, he does not, as of
now, have the command of the military forces or the government
bureaucracy. So, while the official request of humanitarian aid
from the National Assembly has started to be answered by the
international community, it is a contested environment, where
the delivery of aid is being explicitly blocked by Nicolas
Maduro and the military.
So, the situation calls for a two-tiered response.
One, is what to do during this impasse.
And, two, what to do in case of a much-needed democratic
transition.
Alleviating the human suffering and the refugee crisis
looks different under these two scenarios. In the status quo we
need to deliver aid in a politically neutral way to those that
need it the most. This may involve engaging the United Nations,
funding exisiting local and multinational NGO's on the ground,
and using a variety of delivery channels, from cash transfers
to air drops of supplies. As the need is and will be massive,
both inside Venezuela and the neighboring countries affected by
the refugee crisis.
I would like to be clear that while important and
necessary, given the extent of the humanitarian crisis, this
approach is palliative. In the case of a democratic transition,
Venezuela can engage in the profound reforms that are needed:
Stabilizing the currency, rebooting the private provision of
goods, massive cash transfers to alleviate acute shortages, and
investing in public services from the replenishment of
hospitals to citizen security. This transition will involve
significant aid and, likely, the largest IMF package in its
history.
So, what is the situation? Venezuela has seen one of the
most dramatic economic contractions in human history. Inflation
has surpassed 1 million percent in the last year. If
Venezuelans used to buy a carton of milk with $1 in January, in
December it cost them $10,000. Obviously, salaries have not
kept up.
GDP has contracted over 50 percent in the last 5 years, the
largest contraction in the world in 2017. It has over $150
billion in debt, while oil output, which is 95 percent of
exports, has gone down 64 percent in the last 20 years due to
mismanagement and corruption.
Poverty has gone from 48 percent to 91 percent in the last
4 years. Venezuela is one of the most violent countries in the
world. Parts of Venezuela have become lawless refuge for the
FARC, the ELN, and non-state actors who engage in
narcotrafficking, illegal mining, and contraband of gasoline.
There are shortages of almost every basic medication. The
Ministry of Health reported on a hundredfold increase in
neonatal death. We have seen the rise of diseases previously
eradicated, from malaria where we have seen over 500,000 cases,
as well as Zika, polio, diphtheria, and measles. Shortages of
vaccines means that this problem is likely to aggravate and
spread, given the refugee crisis which has reached 3.4 million
Venezuelans which have left their country, an average of 5,000
Venezuelans who cross the border every day.
Diseases do not respect borders and pose a regional
security threat.
To conclude, our unwavering support of the Venezuelan
people is critical in this moment. There are two distinct
strategies at play. One involves exerting maximum economic and
political pressure on the regime that increase the chances of a
bloodless transition.
The second is a humanitarian response which is distinct
from the political and diplomatic strategy, and should be
neutral and target the most vulnerable. We should also be
prepared to commit the resources that are commensurate with the
needs, which will be multiples of the current commitment.
In both of these fronts we need to maintain a multilateral
approach. We are stronger and wiser when we work with others.
And what makes this moment remarkable is the global support
coalescing behind the new government and the humanitarian
response. The Grupo de Lima, the OAS, most of the European
Union make up the over 50 countries recognizing Guaido and
pressing for a democratic transition. It is this coalition,
ideally led by the Grupo de Lima, and supported by the U.S.
that represents a hope for the Venezuelan people who have
suffered too long under a brutal and corrupt regime.
I wish to sincerely thank you for calling this hearing on
the Venezuelan crisis and for inviting me to testify today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Escobari follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Mr. Canton.
STATEMENT OF SANTIAGO CANTON, FORMER EXECUTIVE SECRETARY,
INTER-AMERICAN COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS
Mr. Canton. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Rooney, and
members of the committee----
Mr. Sires. Can you please turn your mike on. Thank you.
Mr. Canton. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
The Secretary General of the Organization of American
States, Luis Almagro, has recently stated: ``The regime in
Venezuela is responsible for what has become one of the worst
humanitarian crisis the region has experienced. This crisis is
man-made and a direct result of inhumane actions by leaders who
do not care about the suffering of their people, allowing their
citizens to die of hunger and preventable diseases.''
In 2018, the U.N.'s Food and Agriculture Organization
indicated that between 2015 and 2017, 11 percent of Venezuela's
population, 3.7 million people, were undernourished, up from
less than 5 percent between 2008 and 2013.
The 2018 National Survey of Hospitals showed that the
capacity of the national network of hospitals has been
gradually dismantled over the last 5 years. The survey reports
88 percent of shortages of medicine and 79 percent of shortages
of surgical supplies.
Indicators such as the increase of maternal mortality by 60
percent, and infant mortality by 30 percent from 2014 to 2016,
the lack of access to adequate and regular treatment for more
than 300,000 patients with chronic diseases, or the outbreak of
malaria and diphtheria all point to a dramatic deterioration of
the healthcare system.
The Office of the High Commissioner of Human Rights at the
U.N. observed that women are particularly affected by the
health crisis. For instance, the number of maternal deaths rose
from 368 in 2012 to 756 in 2016.
Last year, as mentioned by the chairman, I was appointed by
the OAS to a panel of three independent international experts
that, after evaluating the information on the humanitarian
crisis, concluded that the use of the crisis as an instrument
to pressure a segment of the population that is considered as
dissident or that is identified as such, constituted multiple
violations of fundamental rights, such as the right to life,
right to humane treatment, the right to health, and the right
to food, making it a crime of persecution for political
reasons.
The humanitarian crisis has created more demonstrations,
and the government response to the demonstrations was a policy
of systematic violations which between 2014 and 2018 left
thousands of extrajudicial executions, 12,000 arbitrary
detentions, 289 cases of torture, 192 cases of rape of persons
under State control, and a number of enforced disappearances.
The panel of experts found reasonable grounds to believe
that these acts against the civilian population of Venezuela
constituted crimes against humanity, in accordance with Article
7 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court,
including the crimes of murder, imprisonment, torture, rape and
other forms of sexual violence, persecution, and enforced
disappearances. Finally, the case that the panel worked on was
sent by five countries to the ICC.
In 2001, the countries of this hemisphere approved the
world's first democratic charter with the goal of defending
democracy and human rights. Unfortunately, due to regional
politics, the Inter-American Democratic Charter has clearly
failed. Mr. Chairman, this is not about politics, this is not
about the Latin American left or the Latin American right,
populism or fascism, this crisis is about the personal greed,
corruption and organized criminal activity of the mafia that
under the banner of nationalism and sovereignty is killing,
torturing, persecuting, and detaining its own people.
In the year 2000, the Canadian Government established a
commission to respond to a question of the U.N. Secretary
General Kofi Annan on when the international community must
intervene for humanitarian purposes. The Canadian Commission
stated that sovereignty entails not only rights, but also the
responsibility to protect its people from major violations of
human rights. Basically, Mr. Chairman, the principle of non-
intervention yields to the international responsibility to
protect. In this situation, it means to exercise the
responsibility to protect the Venezuelan citizens facing grave
human rights violations.
And that is where we are now, Mr. Chairman. The
international community, not any country individually, should
work together, particularly with the countries from the Lima
Group, but also with those who have not joined the Lima Group
to return to the Venezuelans the democracy, the human rights,
and the dignity that the group of organized criminals took away
from them.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Canton follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Votes have just been called so, Mr. Rendon, can you do your
5 minutes and then we will go into recess and come back so we
can ask you some questions. And thank you for your patience.
STATEMENT OF MOISES RENDON, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR AND ASSOCIATE
FELLOW, AMERICAS PROGRAM, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND
INTERNATIONAL STUDIES
Mr. Rendon. Thank you. Mr. Chairman and ranking member,
distinguished committee members, thank you for the opportunity
to share my thoughts on the crisis in Venezuela. My colleagues
already talked about how we got here, including the most
important humanitarian and economic indicators, so I will
highlight some issues on how the U.S. and the international
community can non-violently support Venezuelans to reclaim
their democracy from this kleptocratic mafia state.
It is important to emphasize that interim President Guaido
did not proclaim himself as president, as has been reported.
After January 10th of this year, Maduro lost any legitimacy
left to continue in office. The Presidential elections held
last May were not only unfree and unfair, but also illegally
called by the illegitimate constituent assembly and organized
by an unconstitutionally named national council, election
council. This is why more than 50 countries, together with the
National Assembly and the Supreme Court in exile did not
recognize the results, and now recognize Guaido in lines of
articles 233, 333, and 350 of the Venezuelan Constitution.
The next step should be supporting the path that Guaido
himself has announced to restore the country's democracy: Stop
Maduro's usurpation of power, set up Guido's interim government
such that free and fair elections can be held.
The events this past Saturday, on February 23d, prove once
again that the regime does not care that its own people faces
starvation, and is not willing to leave power even if it means
committing crimes against humanity. The rejection of
humanitarian aid, including with the use of force, has been
part of Maduro's policy and has been systematically enforced
for many years in Venezuela.
I want to briefly talk about the role of Cuba, China, and
Russia. Venezuela has not been a truly sovereign nation for
years. The presence of Cuban State actors in different sectors
in Venezuela, including in the intelligence, military, and
property registration offices, violates the Venezuelan
Constitution and international law.
China has propped up Maduro, has propped up the Maduro
regime, lending nearly $70 billion, and possessing large oil
fields in the Orinoco Belt where most of the Venezuelan oil is.
Russia's influence in Venezuela, on the other hand, is
driven both by economic and foreign policy objectives.
I can comment more on this and other issues later but I
want to turn now to where we go from here.
I think a military intervention would be catastrophic, Mr.
Chairman. Let me be clear, the threat of military involvement
is a worthwhile strategy when it exists only as a threat or
political language. However, actual boots on the ground or
military activity will send the country deeper into chaos. The
FARC members, ELN, gangs, and other paramilitary groups operate
in this lawless environment. All of these groups are in peace
right now. But as soon as one military action comes to
Venezuela they will panic and it will cause even greater
security concerns.
What's more, the international community does not support
military intervention as of now. We have not yet exhausted all
peaceful policy options. Saturday was the first attempt that
humanitarians had attempted to enter into the country. This
happened because Juan Guaido has been recognized as the interim
president of Venezuela, and together with the National Assembly
urgently requested aid.
Now that there is a consensus today within the
international community that there is no time to waste in
Venezuela, the path to limit the suffering of the Venezuelan
people and help Venezuelans restore their democracy could be
accelerated if the following steps are taken in the short term:
One, provide much-needed humanitarian assistance within
Venezuela. Again, Saturday was the first time this was
attempted. And the planning and execution needs to be improved
moving forward.
Second, help Guido's government get off the ground by
recovering the republic's assets from Maduro's control and
transferring them to the Guaido and the National Assembly
control.
Third, recognize the new Ambassadors appointed by Guido's
interim government and revoking diplomatic visas to those
members of the regime and their families, including visas, the
older visas, because revoking the older visas is also very
important.
Fourth, back the National Assembly's amnesty law for
current and former military officials who decide to help
restore the country's democracy and let the humanitarian aid
in.
Fifth, increase pressure on Maduro and his inner circle
with legal sanctions, especially by countries who have not
imposed sanctions yet.
And, sixth, prohibit any further international agreements
or oil payments to the Maduro regime and transfer those
payments to Maduro's government and the National Assembly.
And to finalize, this is, there is no silver bullet to
resolve the Venezuelan crisis, Mr. Chairman. However, from the
humanitarian and international law perspective the provision of
humanitarian aid needs to be the top priority. The more the
U.S. works together with the OAS and the Lima Group which, by
the way, Venezuela formally joined the Lima Group just
yesterday, we will have a better chance to find a peaceful
solution.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rendon follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
Mr. Sires. Thank you. We will recess now. We have floor
votes. We will be right back.
Thank you.
[Recess.]
Mr. Sires. We are going to start because I know, Mr.
Canton, you have to leave. And we will start with the
questioning. And I will start.
You know, I get asked this question all the time. And the
question basically is this:
Are there any other methods for us delivering humanitarian
aid that have been used in other places that we could try in
Venezuela? Ms. Escobari, is there? I mean, obviously this past
weekend did not go well. And I do not know, quite frankly, how
to answer that.
Ms. Escobari. No, it is a great question. And I think what
we saw this weekend is that Venezuelans are desperate to find
ways out of this repressive regime. And they also need to bring
food in. And these two goals were conflated this weekend, and
most of the aid did not go through.
But I think there is a lot more that we can try. It is
difficult in a contested environment. But it involves working
with international NGO's like the Red Cross, working with local
NGO's. There are hundreds of local NGO's. And thinking
creatively about ways to bring in goods, sometimes we need
goods but also cash, because around 20 percent of the goods are
still provided by the private sector. It is just that most
Venezuelans cannot afford them.
And I do think there is an opportunity for the U.N. to step
up their game and help----
Mr. Sires. They have been pretty quiet about this.
Ms. Escobari. Yes. I think the U.N. has played a brokering
role in many of these politically contested environments, from
Yemen to Sudan. And my colleague Jeremy Konyndyk who used to
work at USAID, has suggested the U.N. needs to challenge
Maduro's denial of the crisis. And Maduro's refusal of the aid
has left the U.N. with no funding appeal for Venezuela, no
humanitarian coordinator appointed within the U.N. system.
OCHA, which coordinates aid, does not even include
Venezuela as a contry of focus. And so I think that that is an
opportunity to find a political mediator in this crisis.
Mr. Canton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Unfortunately I would say that, many of the questions you
have are the same questions that we all have. And we all also
do not have an answer. There are no clear answers to many of
the problems we are facing in Venezuela.
One thing that at least I believe is very important,
particularly for the U.S. Government, is to follow the Lima
Group. There is a dialog going on there and if there is any
possibility of finding a solution, very likely may come from
the Lima Group.
And in addition to the Lima Group I would say let's not
forget about Mexico, let's not forget about Uruguay. Although
those two countries have not recognized Guaido, that does not
mean that they do not want to collaborate. And you always need,
particularly in situations like this one that this, you know,
is very close, you need some interlocutors that can talk, that
can talk to the government. And those are going to be more
likely Mexico and Uruguay than in the Lima Group.
So, the combination of the work of other Latin American
countries which Latin America has a history, sometimes good,
sometimes bad, but it does have a history of trying to find
solutions to this big crisis. The Contadora group back in the
'80's, and there are some experiences like that. They should
take the lead. And it is important that the U.S. understands
that and takes the lead of the decision of the Lima Group.
Mr. Rendon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for the question. I
have done some research on finding new methods to try to
provide humanitarian aid in Venezuela. Very interestingly, the
use of new technology, specifically the use of cryptocurrency,
is already playing a role in Venezuela. We brought groups on
the ground in Venezuela that are receiving donations through
cryptocurrency, and they are using those donations to buy food
and medicine and distribute it within Venezuela.
This is increasingly happening because Venezuela has
hyperinflation and the donations to get into the country is
really limited, really repressive; right? So that is where the
use of cryptocurrency is shedding a light of how we can use
that as a method to get aid in a way that we probably have not
seen before. So, I think looking into those.
And the benefits are countless. I mean, it is transparent,
censorship-resistant, it is borderless, and it is empowering
the people to use their own resources, right, because it is
direct. So I would look at that as a way to, because again we
need to think out of the box here, and I think that is one of
those tools that can maybe help.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. My time is up.
Congressman Guest.
Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Rendon, would you agree that the Maduro regime is a
corrupt regime? I think you mentioned that in your report or
your transcript on page 2. Would you agree with that?
Mr. Rendon. I am sorry, what is that? Would you repeat
that, please?
Mr. Guest. Would you agree that the current regime is a
corrupt regime?
Mr. Rendon. Yes.
Mr. Guest. Being involved, I believe you say, in illicit
activities, including drug trafficking, massive corruption, and
money laundering?
Mr. Rendon. Yes. Correct.
Mr. Guest. And would each of you also agree with that as
well, with that, with that assessment of the current regime?
And to each of you, would you agree that the current regime is
an illegitimate regime based upon the sham elections that were
held earlier last year?
Mr. Rendon. Correct.
Mr. Guest. And would you also agree that the current regime
has created both a political crisis and a humanitarian crisis
in Venezuela?
Mr. Rendon. Correct.
Mr. Guest. All right. So, with that, what can be done,
short of military intervention, what can be done to remove
Maduro from currently presiding over the people of Venezuela? I
believe, Mr. Rendon, you talked in one of your statements that
we must increase pressure on his inner circle. What methods
could we use that we are currently not to increase pressure on
his inner circle to have him step down?
Mr. Rendon. Yes, thank you for that question.
So, there are many tools that we have not yet accomplished
yet. One of those, for example, is to work with other countries
like Cuba, China, Iran, Russia to make sure that they do not
support Maduro.
Mr. Guest. All right, let me ask you, I hate to interrupt
you,----
Mr. Rendon. Yes.
Mr. Guest [continuing]. But would you agree that that is
highly unlikely that we are going to convince China, and
Russia, and Cuba----
Mr. Rendon. Yes.
Mr. Guest [continuing]. Not to support this regime?
Mr. Rendon. Yes. It is going to be a difficult task.
Mr. Guest. OK. All right, go ahead. I am sorry, I did not
mean to interrupt you.
Mr. Rendon. No, no. No.
Mr. Guest. But just wanted to make sure.
Mr. Rendon. No, that is a fair question.
And, second, I think now that we have a new recognized
government led by Juan Guaido we should be supporting him,
trying to get his government get off the ground as quick as
possible. How? Making sure to freeze those bank accounts, those
assets that Maduro still controls today, not only within the
U.S. through restriction but also on those countries who
recognize Guaido as the president.
And also transfer those bank accounts to Guaido and the
National Assembly. That is a very key point but I do not think
we are there yet. And I think that is an important task to
empower the legitimate government and try and find a
resolution. Right?
So I will add that, Congressman Guest.
Mr. Canton. Thank you for, thank you for your question.
I would start by saying that your question assumes that
military intervention is the solution.
Mr. Guest. No, I said in light of that. What can we do----
Mr. Canton. OK. Right, OK.
Mr. Guest [continuing]. Because I think no one wants the
United States military to go into Venezuela and forcibly remove
Mr. Maduro.
Mr. Canton. Right. Right.
Mr. Guest. And so what can we do short of that----
Mr. Canton. Right. All right, OK.
Mr. Guest [continuing]. To accomplish that purpose? Because
I believe once he is removed and we are going to see
humanitarian aid begin to flow into Venezuela, I believe he is
the roadblock controlling the military----
Mr. Canton. Correct.
Mr. Guest [continuing]. That is creating this crisis. And
we all want to see him removed but no one wants to use any
military force.
Mr. Canton. Correct.
Mr. Guest. So that is the question, what are we not
currently doing that would promote regime change in Venezuela?
Mr. Canton. Right. I do not think that anybody has the
magic solution and the, you know, the great answer to that
question. But there is one thing that is different now than
before. For the last 20 years, and I have been following
Venezuela as secretary, Secretary of the Inter-American
Commission on Human Rights for, you know, 15 years, this
situation has been going on and on and on for easily 15 years
but the international community, particularly Latin American
community did not pay attention to it.
There are several reports of the Inter-American Commission
on Human Rights, and most NGO's on human rights denouncing
grave violation of human rights in Venezuela at least since
2005. And the Latin American countries did not pay attention to
it for whatever reason.
Right now for the first time that is happening. So there is
a big difference between now, the Lima Group, the political
negotiations that are going on, to everything else that was
tried before. So, there is a need to give time, to give chance
to the political negotiations, to give chance to diplomacy, to
give chance to the U.N. This is the time to do it. What is
going on right now it just started but all the failures are
from the last 20 years. So we need to give a chance to this
situation right now.
Mr. Guest. And in addition to what we are currently doing
is there any additional pressure that we can put on that regime
that, again, you talk about freezing assets and about putting
pressure on his inner circle, and what I was wanting from each
of you, what can we do as a government to make sure that we are
putting as much political pressure on Maduro to resign as
possible?
Mr. Canton. I, you know, this might sound--I am not a U.S.
citizen, I am from Argentina and it might sound a little bit I
am getting involved into something that is not my affair. But,
you know, I live in this country for 30 years. And the U.S.
should be, that is why I used that word before, following what
the Lima Group decides rather than pushing the Lima Group to do
something. That negotiation has taken place. And when the U.S.,
you know, makes the decision to keep, you know, it is the U.S.
Government particularly, but it is important to let the Latin
American countries that now for the first time in 20 years are
doing something, it is important to support them and to
followup on their decisions.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Vargas.
Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And thank
you again to the witnesses for being here today.
When I always thought of Venezuela I always thought of it
as a very stable democracy, just like Mexico, Colombia, a
number of the large Latin American countries. And it really is
tragic and almost unbelievable what has happened to Venezuela.
Now we have, Ms. Escobari, as you call it, a contested
environment. I never would have expected that.
Now, in the situation that we find ourselves--they find
themselves in, it is a humanitarian crisis that we seldom see
in our hemisphere. And, again, as being someone who is not in
favor in any way of military intervention, I am not in favor of
that, but at the same time we have to move this thing along
because the suffering of the people is so dramatic, and not
getting better.
I mean, how can we help? I mean, we are attempting to
humanitarian--I have listened to all your testimoneys today--
and humanitarian help first and a whole bunch of other things,
but is there anything else that we can do, and again not using
military force which I am not in favor of it, is there anything
else we can do without hurting the people? In other words,
moving toward a transition but without doing more damage to
these poor people who have been hurt so badly.
Ms. Escobari. To add to this question and to what my fellow
panelists have said, I think the strategy is twofold. And it
involves strengthening both of those strategies. It is widely
accepted that the government uses oil to distribute rents to
the military officers and maintain itself in power. So the
sanctions are meant to limit his ability to do so can be
strengthened.
We can work with the international community so that all of
Latin America and the European Union enforce these sanctions
fully. And use diplomatic avenues so that Maduro, if we are
going to go for this short-term dramatic strategy, that Maduro
does not have options to sell its oil, and that we use our
diplomatic leverage with India, and Turkey, and others.
And while it is true that Russia and China may not be our
allies, at the end they want to get paid. And they are deciding
right now whether Maduro is the right person to bet on. And
those, I think are calculations that are changing by the
minute.
And there are other stronger actions and escalations that
we can engage in, short of military intervention.
Mr. Vargas. But also short of hurting people. I mean, one
of the things that I have great concern about is oftentimes
when we have sanctions placed on countries, you know, we try to
target them to hit the culprits. But oftentimes it ends up
hurting the people in general. We do not want to starve the
people of Venezuela. I mean, that does concern me.
Ms. Escobari. Yes.
Mr. Vargas. Because 95 percent of the exports is oil.
Ms. Escobari. Yes.
Mr. Vargas. I mean, if we cutoff all oil and we cannot get
humanitarian aid into the country, I mean how are the people
going to eat? I mean, how are they going to survive?
Ms. Escobari. Yes, exactly. And this is why when we think
of it as humanitarian aid, the effort should be massive and
using all possible ways, including negotiating corridors,
safety corridors and finding all ways because exactly of the
calculus that you are, that you are describing.
Mr. Vargas. That is very hard in a contested environment. I
mean, you are the one that mentioned it actually in your
testimony, you said this is a contested environment. I mean, it
is hard to do that. I mean, we saw what happened with a little
bit of aid and literally Maduro's thugs did not allow most of
the aid in.
And how do you negotiate it when they have armed thugs
preventing the aid from coming in? Anyone else want to try
that?
Mr. Canton. I have a very, very short answer which I
mentioned it before. Give it a try. It just happened now. You
know, when we tried for the last 20 years, nothing happened.
But this is not the first time it is happening. And the Latin
American countries are serious about it. So let's give it a
try.
Mr. Vargas. OK. The last thing, last question I did want to
ask is this, one of the things that I fear. What if Maduro
rolls the tanks? I mean, what if at the end of the day he
decides that he is just going to go to try to put down these
massive demonstrations with massive assault on the people, then
what do we do? Because this is not unheard of. I mean, this has
happened, of course. Dictators have done this throughout
history.
Do not be afraid of the question. Somebody answer. Mr.
Rendon, go ahead.
Mr. Rendon. So far it has not been the experience in
Venezuela. And, you know, I have, again, I have followed it
since 2000. I met Chavez. I met Maduro. I spoke with them for
the last, you know, many occasions. That has not happened.
Really very great things have happened, but not that.
Mr. Vargas. Well, let's pray that it does not happen. My
time is over. Let's pray that it does not happen.
Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Meeks.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Canton, you have particularly some of what my concerns
are. There is no question in my mind, and I, like you, have
been down to Venezuela and I have been going down there for the
last 20 years. Knew Chavez when he was there, and Maduro was
part of the National Assembly.
My concern, though, is with the United States being in
front of everything, as opposed to Lima Group and other allies,
and particularly those, the Lima Group, who are in the region,
who surround the borders, what is happening is, as opposed to
some of these other countries, or other NGO's, or other ones
who are trying to get that humanitarian aid in, it seems as
thought it is a political fight to a degree where it is the
United States that has taken the front of this as opposed to
the back and supporting other groups from behind in that
regard, as opposed to making it look like, you know, it is--and
the threat of military aid, military intervention.
And so the boasterous talk is going, taking place. But that
helps hinder helping the Venezuelan people who needs help. The
focus should be on the help. And one thing that I have not
heard, what we need to make sure is done in this conversation,
is bringing forth elections, democratic, free, and fair
elections so it does not just look like you are trying to put
somebody in an topple a government. We are saying, and I agree,
that the prior election of Nicolas Maduro was not free, was not
fair, was not, and so therefore he was not legitimately
elected.
But what we should be advocating for is for the legitimate
elections, not just putting someone in. And that is what the
Venezuelan people want because they do believe in democracy. I
have seen it.
When I was over in Europe just, you know, last week, our
European allies they believe it is an illegitimate government.
But they do not want, they want others, they want to make sure
that there are others that are involved in this. And when I
look at what is taking place at the border it is just the
United States. China forced their way in. And when I look at,
you know, I am told from some, they, you know, have questions
with Elliott Abrams, just the imagery because of what our past
history is. That is a problem. And then some of the rhetoric
that is taking place here with the Colombians, and the
Brazilians, and others, you know, millions of people are
running across. And these governments are welcoming then. And
so they did not ask whether this is part of it or not, but they
do ask, well, how does the United States gets involved when you
have people who are suffering and hurting.
And Central America, and our country is saying not accept
them, put up a wall to stop them from coming here. Send them
back. Thank God Colombia and Brazil is not doing that. Thank
God they are not doing that because then what would happen to
those people?
And that gives us a problem from leading in front because
of the problems that we have with other areas on the
hemisphere.
So, would it not make sense, or am I just, you know, crazy
here, that we allow Lima, the Lima Group, we allow OAS, we
allow and get more involved so it is another party, and we do
all we can to support those groups? So it is not us trying to
be the big guys coming in, the whatever Maduro calls us now.
Does that make any sense to you?
Mr. Canton. Yes, of course. I agree with you. And I do have
in my presentation, you know, calling for elections. You know,
the 5-minutes time did not allow me to reach the end. But I do,
I do think that that should be the way out. Although I am not
very optimistic about it, I have to recognize that. But it
should be a natural way out and peaceful way.
The U.S. has a difficult role, no question about that. And
it has a history of relationship with Latin America which was
up and down along the decades, but it is an very important role
the U.S. can play.
But at this stage I agree with you and I insist for the
first time in many, many years when the issue of Venezuela
comes up, for the first time the Latin American countries, most
of them are working together. It is critical for the U.S. to
support that process and let the Latin American countries, the
OAS, the United Nations, I would include Mexico as well, and I
would include Uruguay as well, work with them to try to find a
solution.
Mr. Meeks. Ms. Escobari, we still have time here.
Ms. Escobari. I agree. And I mentioned in my testimony that
we should let the Grupo de Lima lead but--we need to support
them. And our capabilities are massive, both in our ability to
help in aid and otherwise. But we should let the Grupo de Lima
lead.
And in support, President Guaido in terms of directing, you
know, the carrots and sticks.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Phillips.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our
witnesses, and also thank you to my colleague Mr. Meeks who
referenced elections.
And I want to turn our attention a little bit prospectively
to a post-transition, hopefully peaceful transition. And I
would like to hear from each of you relative to what specific
conditions you believe the international community and this
U.S. Congress should ensure are satisfied to ensure that
Venezuela has free, and open, and fair elections after a
transition.
And also, what timeframe you think would be most
appropriate thereafter.
Mr. Canton. I am sorry I answer first, but I have to leave
because I----
Mr. Phillips. Please.
Mr. Canton [continuing]. Need to take a flight.
I would say credible international observers which the last
elections in Venezuela and these last two elections, you
probably know better than I do, there was no credible
international election observation. And the OAS was not allowed
to go. And most important NGO's doing election observations
were not allowed to go. The European Union was not allowed to
go.
So, you need election observations.
And the timeframe, the timeframe is now. But, you know, you
cannot call for a snap election because that is not helpful.
But a reasonable time for all the political parties to be able
to participate freely, so you have to have months.
Mr. Phillips. Months.
Mr. Rendon. Yes, just to briefly add on that. You also need
to work the conditions on the ground. Maduro has been proved to
be intimidating the Venezuelan people using food as a weapon.
And so when you are calling elections you need international
observers but you also need to work the conditions on the
ground by providing humanitarian aid and disempowering the
regime by using this tool, this food program called CLAP, which
is the main political tool that they have to use. But it is
linked to the national I.D. and to the way you vote and the way
you are politically affiliated.
So, in a way it is like the Chinese credit system but with
lower technology. So, if you want to set up free and fair
elections in the future, that CLAP program needs to be one of
the first things that need to be out. And among the many
others, right, because now we--I mean, I agree, elections are
the first step but you need to announce a new electoral system.
The current electoral system right now is highly corrupt, so
you need to have a new council and as well.
Mr. Phillips. And any thoughts on who is in a position to
initiate such a new system?
Mr. Rendon. The only institution based on the Venezuelan
Constitution is the National Assembly. They are the only ones
who can announce elections at this point and also a new
electoral system----
Mr. Phillips. The infrastructure.
Mr. Rendon [continuing]. That can promote free and fair
elections.
Mr. Phillips. OK, thank you.
Ms. Escobari.
Ms. Escobari. And just to add to that, which I agree with,
I think you need a minimum of stabilization and citizen
security to hold elections. And the National Assembly has
actually approved guidelines on the transition and thinks that
this might take around a year.
Mr. Phillips. OK, a full year.
All right, thank you. I yield the rest of my time.
Mr. Sires. Congressman Levin.
Mr. Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to explore a little the question of amnesty and
human rights violations. And now I will direct this to Ms.
Escobari. But I am curious to hear both of your thoughts.
Reports indicate that under Maduro Venezuelan military
officials have committed grave human rights abuses. The U.N.
Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights has reported
the use of ``excessive force to deter demonstrations, crush
dissent, and instill fear.'' It is my understanding that the
Venezuelan National Assembly has enacted legislation to provide
amnesty to public officials, including security forces, that
abandon the Maduro regime and support the transition, you know,
the transitional government.
President Trump relayed a similar message himself last week
during a speech at Florida International University in Miami.
He delivered what he called a ``message for every official who
is helping keep Maduro in place,'' and he said the following:
``You can choose to accept President Guido's generous offer
of amnesty, to live your life in peace with your families and
your countrymen. President Guaido does not seek retribution
against you, and neither do we.''
There is a long history of impunity for human rights
abusers in the Western Hemisphere and other parts of the world.
And, you know, on the other hand there have been some examples
of truth commissions and efforts to hold people accountable
which, in my view, are necessary for the development of healthy
democracies.
So, can you provide a little more detail on the kinds of
human rights abuses that may have been perpetrated by
Venezuelan military officials to start with?
Ms. Escobari. Yes. I wish our colleague was here because he
had a long list and the list includes torture, and
imprisonment, and the killings that we witnessed this weekend.
And I think, the amnesty law and the proposal by Guaido is
powerful because it is part of the strategy of getting the
military to defect. However, there will be, there will be a
determination on those who have committed crimes against
humanity, and that amnesty law cannot protect those.
Mr. Levin. It cannot protect those under Venezuelan law or
under international law you are saying?
Ms. Escobari. I think neither.
Mr. Levin. That is something that is in Venezuelan law, in
the constitution, in the statute? Where is that? Or is that
just an aspirational kind of statement?
Mr. Rendon. Yes.
Ms. Escobari. Sorry, go on.
Mr. Rendon. According to the Venezuelan Constitution there
cannot be any pardon on human rights violations. And so when I
think of this amnesty law I think not of the top generals who
have--who are the responsibles of committing human rights
violations, I am thinking more of the bottom, the bottom
soldiers who are just following orders from their generals.
Right? And that is where the strategy can be found.
Now, there is a tricky part here because when it comes to
crimes against humanitarian, following orders is not an excuse.
Mr. Levin. Exactly. I mean, I you, if I, if you are my
commander and you tell me to torture Mr. Phillips, I may not
torture Mr. Phillips and, if I do so, I am committing a grave
human rights violation.
Mr. Rendon. That is----
Mr. Levin. So I do not understand the point about generals
and soldiers on the ground.
Mr. Rendon. That is correct. There are soldiers who have
either not committed crimes against humanity who can be saved
by this amnesty law. And that is where I think this law can
provide a bridge to some of those to support Guaido and the
democracy of Venezuela. And I think it is a tool together with
the whole pressure that we are trying to use toe facilitate the
democracy in Venezuela within, led by Venezuelans. Right? So, I
think it is a powerful tool and I think we need to support that
as much as possible.
Mr. Levin. Well, thank you. I will just say that given the
almost complete disregard for human rights of the current
occupant of the White House in everywhere from South America to
North Korea, this body has a responsibility to step up and
proclaim American--America's long dedication to, imperfect, but
our dedication to human rights. And as urgent as the situation
is in Venezuela, we need to proceed in a way that holds the
respect of human rights sacrosanct.
Thank you. And I yield back my time.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
We are going to have another round of questioning. I and
maybe they have another question.
It was recently stated that India now has stepped up and
bought the oil from Venezuela. And they did it pretty quickly.
What can we do to stop that? Because that is basically the
funding for Maduro.
Mr. Rendon. Yes, I think that is a critical point, Mr.
Chairman. And I think we need to engage the Indians. That cash
is being used by Maduro to keep up the repressive regime;
right?
And but that has a specific purpose to that trade, and that
is fueling the domestic gas in Venezuela. And Venezuela is
running out of gas. And people would not--are not going to be
able to fill their own cars with gas if the Indians are not
sending that cash to Maduro.
I think the more we empower, again, Guido's government,
providing those oil payments to Guido's government and the
National Assembly, providing those trade agreements to Guido's
government and National Assembly is not only the only
constitutional, legitimate way forward, but it is the right
thing to do. And I think we need to as much as possible
transfer those to Guaido.
So, when the U.S. talks to India, that is the direction
that we need to be engaging, recognizing Guaido and engaging
the Guido's government.
Mr. Sires. Can the Lima Group talk to India?
Mr. Rendon. That is a good question. I think they are under
the authority to do it. And they should be, they should be
pursuing that route.
Ms. Escobari. They probably can, but we probably hold more
leverage. And I think for India it is completely an economic
decision.
If we think about the numbers, last year Venezuela sold
about $20 billion but most of the cash came from the U.S. Now
that the U.S. is not going to be providing that, they are going
to be selling it at a deep discount.
But just think about the magnitude of the need. I think
there still would be around $5 billion that would, that would
not reach the Maduro government. And I think that number is
also important when we think about our humanitarian package.
Mr. Sires. Thank you.
Congressman Levin, do you have a second question?
Mr. Levin. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would just like to followup actually on the PDVSA
sanctions situation. And I would like to get your all's take
on, you know, the possibility of unintended consequences.
As you know, the Trump administration put sanctions on
PDVSA, presumably in hopes that cutting off Maduro's money
supply would force him to exit. But as I said during our last
hearing on this subject, I am worried about what is going to
happen to the Venezuelan people while this strategy plays out
or does not.
The New York Times ran a story earlier this month on this
very question, and I think the headline said it all: ``U.S.
Sanctions Are Aimed at Venezuela's Oil. Its Citizens May Suffer
First.''
So, my question is, could these particular sanctions worsen
the humanitarian crisis that has already gotten so bad in
Venezuela? And either, I am interested in either of your
answers.
Ms. Escobari. Yes, I think the strategy is one to be able
to starve Maduro of his ability to continue to maintain himself
in power. And that cannot happen without an equally robust
strategy on the humanitarian side. And these are the orders of
magnitude that we should be talking about.
Mr. Rendon. Yes, in a way it is going to limit Maduro to
keep importing food and other products. It is the only way the
Venezuelan people are getting fed, by imports. So, Maduro is no
longer going to be able to import as much as people are
needing.
Mr. Levin. So we are sort of playing a game of chicken with
him where we, at the risk of the people starving?
Mr. Rendon. I think the key part here, again to the point
of Guido's government, is to make sure that he has the power to
keep, and the National Assembly to import now. And if we are
now recognizing Guaido as the only legitimate president, we
need to give him that power. And I think providing humanitarian
aid is the first step. We should be trying to keep pushing
humanitarian aid, not only to the Colombian border but to
every, every single border in the country.
And we only tried once. Let's keep trying, let's keep
trying because, again, Venezuelans are starving. So I think
that is the----
Mr. Levin. Do you think it is fair to say that we
politicized humanitarian aid in this situation, that the U.S.
is saying, well, this is the government over here and they, and
given the long history of the Yanqui intervention in the
hemisphere in many countries, overthrowing democratic
governments, that it is problematic for us----
Mr. Rendon. Yes.
Mr. Levin [continuing]. To be playing the role, even the,
you know, a good strategy in, you know, in other circumstances?
Mr. Rendon. I will argue because of the National Assembly
and President Guaido himself requested aid, and also this was a
multilateral approach. No, it is not about the U.S. sending
aid, it is about Canada, Colombia, Argentina, Chile, Peru,
Ecuador, and even Uruguay sending medical supplies, the
European Union, following the National Assembly and Guido's
request for aid.
And on top of that the one politicizing, using food as a
weapon here is Maduro. He has been doing this for years. So
when I see Saturday's event I do not think aid's being
politicized, I think it is following, again, the only
constitutional route that we have today to support the
Venezuelan people. And I think we should be continuing that
path.
Yes, there is room for improvement. I think the execution
of Saturday's humanitarian aid can be improved in many ways. We
only saw that happening in three points, crossing points in
that border. That is a border that has 250 unofficial crossing
points. So, if we want to----
Mr. Levin. Unofficial or?
Mr. Rendon. Unofficial.
Mr. Levin. OK.
Mr. Rendon. Called trochas, which are, you know, your
regular path where people--which, by the way, 50 percent of the
people crossing the border are using those unofficial paths.
So, if we want to really send humanitarian aid we can, we need
to find those ways and we need to keep continuing that pursuit
following the National Assembly request and President Guido's
request.
Mr. Levin. Thank you. I really, I really appreciate that.
I mean, Mr. Chairman, I do not say any of this to support,
you know, the Maduro regime one iota. I just worry about
finding the most effective way forward given, you know, given
our country's history, and whether us playing such a prominent
role and, of course, threatening force is the most effective
way.
I yield back. Thank you.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congressman.
Congressman Dean Phillips.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We spend a lot of time talking about what we should do,
perhaps not enough time listening to what people want or need.
I would welcome both of your perspectives, to the extent that
you can share them, about what both the National Assembly,
members of the Assembly, specifically independent of aid,
because when you are hungry and in need it does not matter
where it comes from, independent of that what would the
National Assembly if they were here, as many as possible in
front of us, what would they want from us right now? And what
would the people of Venezuela, those that remain in country,
what would they be asking us for right now if we could listen
to them?
Mr. Rendon. I think the National Assembly has a clear
priority right now which is the same as President Guaido,
stopping usurpation, Maduro's usurpation of power is priority
No. 1.
Second, letting Guaido set up----
Mr. Phillips. May I interrupt you? And how?
Mr. Rendon. Yes. I think going back to the points we have
discussed, humanitarian aid is one, but also supporting the
amnesty law that the National Assembly passed. I am sure they
will be asking the U.S. to support that amnesty law in ways
that can be legal; right? I am not supporting a violation
against international law and human rights. But there is room
to support this law that is kind of the only bridge that many
military members have to get out of their situation; right?
So, that would be another.
I think the day after scenario is a crucial issue that the
National Assembly has been trying to put effort and energy on
that. I think that would be in our request. They would be
asking the U.S. and the international community to keep in mind
that the day after they are going to be, the role of the U.S.
and the international community is going to be crucial from
economic, financial, security, social, institutional point of
view. Everything needs to be done in Venezuela. It is going to
be a blank sheet. It is a completely destroyed country.
And the only institution able, legitimate to pursue that
route, is the National Assembly. But they cannot do it alone.
They need the support of the U.S. and other countries. So that
would be I am sure another, another request that they would be
asking if they were here.
And among many other priorities, right, and going back to
the bank accounts and the assets, and they need to operate as a
government. They cannot do it right now because Maduro is
limiting them financially and economically. So they will be
probably asking the U.S., hey, we need, we need access to bank
accounts and to assets so we can operate as a government.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you.
Ms. Escobari?
Ms. Escobari. I mean, I think to just reiterate, the
situation is unbearable on the ground for most Venezuelans. And
I think we have shared a lot of numbers. But these numbers do
not reveal the sense of powerlessness of not having a voice to
democratically choose another path.
And I think there is an incredible momentum around the
world. Venezuelans want to know that we have their back and
that we will not forget them, and that we will push as hard as
we can as they see an opening right now.
Mr. Phillips. So it is fair to say that the people of
Venezuela want us to play a role in both promoting a transition
and in, of course very importantly, rebuilding the Nation. And
my question was more to the sentiment right now of the----
Ms. Escobari. Absolutely.
Mr. Phillips [continuing]. Venezuelan people vis-a-vis the
United States of America and what role they want us to play.
Ms. Escobari. Absolutely. And this is why I think they
continue to go to the streets even though this country has been
battered in this way.
Mr. Phillips. OK. Thank you very much. I yield back.
Mr. Sires. Thank you. I thank the witnesses and all members
for being here today.
With that, the committee is adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 4:18 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT
[all]