Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of school massacres by death toll
this article and '''restore''' the now redirected List of rampage killers (school massacres) - This new page was created unilateraly without any form of discussion or attempt at consensus building first thus violating . The perpetrators' names have clearly been redacted because they no longer appear anywhere on the new List of school massacres by death toll page. Not only that, but because the creator of the new page decided to |usurp a new page title instead of executing a regular page move the entire edit history of the old List of rampage killers (school massacres) has been lost. Thus it looks like there was a concentrated effort not just to remove the perpetrators' names from the current revision of the article but to make it look like they were ''never there in the first place''. Although the new article does link to some articles about some of the specific events, I do not think it is unreasonable to also include the perpetrators' names somewhere in the article, especially seeing as there are several massacres listed on this article that do not even have a Wikipedia page of their own and thus a reader who was interested about the perpetrators themselves would have to go to the references to find out who they actually were. As I noted on the Talk:List of school massacres by death toll|article's talk page this is not a stand-alone article but a sub-article of the List of rampage killers parent article. It was split out from the parent article in https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_rampage_killers&diff=prev&oldid=433452055 this edit because the "School Massacres" section became too large to have in the parent article. The original article did not give "requirements to how someone could get on the list (by killing two or more people)." Rather it is to '''limit''' the cases the can be added to the List of rampage killers and its various sub-articles. Originally the List of rampage killers and its sub-articles also contained so-called "massacres" where nobody was killed, such as the Ansbach school attack. Some of thes so-called "rampage killers" who killed no-one where still alive and this raised  concerns. It was eventually decided through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_141#Nathan_Van_Wilkins.2C_rampage_killer_of_zero_persons ths discussion and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_rampage_killers_(Americas)#.22Killers.22_who_failed_to_kill_anyone this discussion, as well as the subsequent Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of rampage killers|deletion discussion, that the List of rampage killers and its sub-articles would only contaion cases of rampage killers that managed to have two or more fatal victims. It is a guideline for inclusion not an incitement to get on a killer scoreboard. Another similar article, the List of serial killers by number of victims has a guideline of someone "who murders three or more people" and ranks the perpetrators by number of victims thus making the article look like a so-called "killer scoreboard." The List of serial killers by number of victims also does not censor the various serial killers' names. Thus, seeing as there are other similar articles to the List of rampage killers and its sub-articles, I fail to see how the original List of rampage killers (school massacres) article violated  or . In fact it could be argued that the new List of school massacres by death toll article, by redacting the perpetrators' names, gives  weight to the theory that spree killers seek fame and / or notoriety and that by never mentioning their names would prevent these crimes from happening. But if you look at List of rampage killers (Asia) you will see that there are several masacres that occurred inside China where not only are the perpetrators never mentioned by name but entire massacres go unreported due to fear of copycats. This suggests that the theory that not reporting a perpetraor's name will increase public safety is a  theory. Also please note that List of rampage killers (school massacres) still redirects to List of school massacres by death toll. It would be reasonably to assume thatanyone who either clicks on that redirect or searches for it would want a list that includes the rampage killers themselves, not just the events. Thus making the new list useless for those users. Also. the List of rampage killers gives its definition of a rampage, it (to quote List of rampage killers| the page itself) "involves the (attempted) killing of multiple persons least partly in public space by a single physically present perpetrator using (potentially) deadly weapons in a single event without any cooling-off period." So terrorist attacks and state violence are both not considered rampage killings, but this new article adds terrorists attacks such as the Beslan massacre and 2014 Peshawar school massacre|Peshawar massacre as well as incidents of state violence such as the Kent State massacre thus making this new article even more useless for those who reach it through the List of rampage killers (school massacres) redirect. Please note that I am not opposed to altering the List of rampage killers (school massacres) or any of the other List of rampage killers pages, like make the default sort by date instead of death count, or by removing the number column so the lists no longer look like leaderboards (which I mentioned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_rampage_killers#Numbered_list.3F in this discussion here). The reason why I haven't made any changes to the structure of these articles myself is that there are twelve separate articles that would have to be redesigned and I would find this tedious. I do support redesigning these articles to remove their flaws but removing all the perpetrators' names is the worst way to go about it. Also I apologize for taking so long to reply, I did not have internet access for two days and was unaware that a deletion discussion was started about my previous talk page remark
— User:Millionsandbillions, 17:01, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Stance: delete
Cited policy: WP:CON||WP:UPT||WP:BLP||WP:DUE||WP:NPOV||WP:UNDUE||WP:FRINGE (Wikipedia:Consensus)