Smith Nick: Standards and Conformance Bill — In Committee 
Smith Nick: Standards and Conformance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:634;Page:5394] 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
: 
 During the second reading of the bill I raised some quite serious concerns about the mess we have within the New Zealand building industry. In particular I drew attention to the fiasco we have whereby the standards committee is saying there is one set of rules and the Department of Building and Housing is saying there is another. I also drew the attention of the House to the view of certified builders that this level of confusion is unprecedented. We have had the whole debacle of leaky homes for over 4 years now and it is still not clear for builders and for designers as to what the standards for building houses are. 
My point in respect of this bill is that Standards New Zealand was created in the aftermath of the Napier earthquake quite specifically to deal with the issue of building standards. It is an organisation that has actually done a very good job over a very long time. I think some of the changes that the last Labour Government made in 1988 at the height of Rogernomics were actually counter-productive to Standards New Zealand. 
Hon Chris Carter 
: Look who is talking! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The member Chris Carter who was the Minister for Building Issues—[ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Mr Carter you can take a call if you wish. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. The member opposite made an accusation that was quite out of order. I suggest that you bring him to order. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Mr Carter I thought you would have taken what I said to you just before as a warning. Would you stand withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Chris Carter 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The difficulty for the Minister Mr Carter is that he turned a blind eye— 
Hon Chris Carter 
: He’s telling porkies. He’s been caught with $15 million. He’s been caught with it. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Now the member has interjected. The fact is that unlike Mr Carter who is not prepared to stand— 
Hon Chris Carter 
: Or was it $18 million? Sorry I was mistaken; it is $18 million not $15 million. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Both figures are incorrect. The Minister does not know. [ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Mr Carter those are not objections so you will cease please. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I make no apologies for standing up for the rights of New Zealanders to have their homes properly constructed. [ 
Interruption 
] I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. You have just asked the member to withdraw and apologise and he has just repeated exactly the same offence. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I do not think he will do it again. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Do members know how many Ministers for building and housing we have had? 
Dr Jackie Blue 
: How many? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: We have had seven Ministers. 
Hon Chris Carter 
: None of them have been sued though have they. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The Minister has already said that I may get sued. I tell Mr Carter that I make absolutely no apologies for standing up— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Mr Carter I have asked you a number of times to cease. I ask your whip to tell you to cease and that will be the end of it. I do not want to hear you again during Dr Smith’s speech. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The part I find interesting is that I am being sued by an American corporation. Is this not the same Labour Party that somehow believes National members are all beholden to Americans? There seems to be a bit of a dichotomy because if we stand up for New Zealand consumers and say: “Come on guys treat the timber according to the New Zealand standard.” the Minister is silent. He was not prepared to do anything about it and I was prepared to put on the public record genuine concerns held by myself and New Zealand scientists about the standard of timber treatment. 
I come back to the issues for the Minister in the chair Lianne Dalziel in terms of this bill. What is the current requirement for treating timber? As I pointed out we had this fiasco whereby the Minister said that standards in New Zealand would be set by a very thorough process—by consensus or by an 80 percent vote. In June there was a vote and two members voted against the watering down of timber treatment standards. 
Dr Jackie Blue 
: Then what happened? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The two members were sacked. It was put to the vote again in August and can members guess what happened? There was consensus. So the standard has been changed. I ask the Minister whether that is acceptable. We are putting all sorts of ethical standards in this bill. Sacking members of a committee including a scientist from AgriQuality a State-owned enterprise because they did not agree seems to me to be somewhat out of step with what I would think was ethical conduct. 
I put these questions to the Minister before and she was absolutely silent. She is the Minister in charge of Standards New Zealand and I have a very simple question for her: can she explain why those two members were sacked from the committee? We know that they were the only two who voted against the change. Imagine if we had that in Parliament; that if one votes against the Government off one goes—on your bike! That seems to me to be the style of ethical conduct we will have. The Minister has brought a bill to Parliament to introduce ethical standards into the standard-setting process but she is silent when those sorts of shenanigans go on within Standards New Zealand. 
 I challenge the Minister to please provide some answers. What standard is acceptable today for building houses? That question is pretty important to a whole lot of New Zealanders out there. Tens of thousands of houses are being built and people do not know what the standard is because the Government has not got its act together. Question No. 2: can the Minister tell us why two members of the standards committee—the two who happened to vote against the watering down of the timber treatment standard—were suddenly fired? Was it as everybody within the industry knows because of commercial pressure from some companies that wanted them out? We deserve an answer from the Minister. Can she tell us why those two members were fired from the committee? More important I would like to know from the Minister how in terms of this bill she can talk about introducing ethical standards when at the very same time she the Minister in charge of Standards New Zealand is silent when these sorts of difficulties are going on and when these sorts of Crown agencies are involved in conduct that is hardly becoming in terms of increasing confidence in the most important area of Standards New Zealand’s work—that is building standards.