Eagle PaulPAUL EAGLE (Labour—Rongotai): Thank you Madam Chair. I'll just take a short call just to reflect on some of these—Chris Bishop: Oh come on. Give it a good go.PAUL EAGLE: Not as short as you the member for Hutt South.Hon Kris Faafoi: He's a very efficient speaker!PAUL EAGLE: Very efficient. Efficiency is—P E" for efficiency.Brett Hudson: Much better than our bus network.PAUL EAGLE: That's true. Now let me just reflect on the submissions that we heard because they were interesting. What I discovered is that there is no difference actually at central government compared to local government. Sometimes people think when you are an arm's-length organisation that gives you more autonomy and freedom with the entity but what I found that many forgot is that they are funded by public money—and it's that that really brings into account that word "accountability" but also puts that "public" back into the Public Service. That's what I want to focus on because that's where we had a bit of a tussle—that's been traversed by previous speakers—around really saying "Look if we pay more we get more and we get this better person." But really that's a bit of a myth and I don't subscribe to "Paying more means you get more."Hon Kris Faafoi: You know you're pretending.PAUL EAGLE: And you have the entities listed—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Order! Order!PAUL EAGLE: They're a very rowdy bunch Madam Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): From behind you.PAUL EAGLE: Thank you.Hon Kris Faafoi: It's support.PAUL EAGLE: Ha ha! That's his way of showing public service to me.But look you'll see that there are several Crown entities for example that are really out of step—in fact 22 of them: 14 autonomous Crown entities and 10 independent Crown entities—and so this really brings them into line.In my experience certainly from managing the performance review committee of a chief executive in local government that five-year term works well. There are some provisions there to stay on an extra two or you choose to readvertise the role and apply on the open market for five years but my experience told me this: the arm's-length autonomy actually means you need to actually rein them in a little bit more. You appreciate what they do there in the market place but they sometimes forget that the very funding they get is public money and I think—and the Minister will clarify this—that's the point of this. Let's get some consistency. Let's say that this Government is putting back the "public" and "service" into the Public Service by saying we want our senior leaders in our whole-of-government approach to be accountable and to give that trust and confidence back.The narrative won't be that we have highly paid CEOs who are actually running public entities; it will rather be that the services that they provide are providing value. So things around paid performance and that risk—look if they want to do that then by all means go and find that role in the private sector. Sell more cars sell more tyres do what you need to do and get that performance bonus. But what we're saying in the Public Service is that you get paid a decent wage—much more than a living wage I might add—and your service is part of that. You made that choice. You didn't come into the Public Service to try and exceed some of your board expectations. Maybe you did but therefore that risk component has been built into it in a different way. Madam Chair I commend this bill."