Soper Lesley: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Soper Lesley: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:645;Page:14832] 
11. 
LESLEY SOPER (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Energy 
: What recent reports has he received on energy security? 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy) 
: 
 Transpower has today announced that Pole 1 of the high voltage direct current interisland electricity grid link will be available for service for northward flows at times of peak demand this winter if it is needed. This restores yet another layer of protection in the unlikely event for example that the other Cook Strait link fails. There are many other substantial grid improvements occurring through the country. Capital expenditure on the grid this year is approximately $400 million up from $60 million per annum in the 1990s. This sixfold increase is very substantial and the power system’s resilience is improving substantially year by year. 
Lesley Soper 
: What other recent changes have been made to improve energy security? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: This week the Minister for the Environment released under the Resource Management Act the new national policy statement on electricity transmission and this adopted recommendations by the board of inquiry chaired by Justice Salmon. I have today released a revised Government policy statement on electricity governance to the Electricity Commission to implement the New Zealand Energy Strategy as we head towards 90 percent renewable electricity. Of course last week Mighty River Power— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: It’s going down—it’s gone down every year. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: No it is not—rubbish! Of course last week Mighty River Power announced it has resource consent for and is proceeding with another 130 megawatt renewable geothermal power station. The Government’s clear sensible transformation of the energy sector to a sustainable and affordable future really is proceeding apace. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Has the Minister seen the Marsh report of last September commissioned by Transpower which led to Transpower shutting down the Pole 1 link and in that report has he seen the risks that were outlined of recommissioning Pole 1—those being a major fire in the station with a high chance of spreading mercury vapour into the atmosphere and the contamination of land from oil or mercury spills with a suggestion that it was not a case of if but when those might happen; if so what can he say to the House to assure New Zealanders that should the link be required this winter everything has been done to mitigate against those prospects that were so real last September? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Here we have it again—scaremongering from Mr Brownlee. Last month he was telling us that the lights were going out— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It is unusual I know but the Minister is off on the wrong track so I will help him. I have in my possession here a document:  
Risk Analysis 
:  
Pole 1 HVDC Line  
with the words “Transpower Limited” “Marsh” “Final Report” 
dated September which does outline the risks I have suggested. It does talk for example of the release of free mercury following earthquake or fire that will cause vapour to be released to other parts of the substation building and the external atmosphere. This is the reason why the pole was closed down. I have asked the Minister what has changed. I now seek leave to table this document in order that he may answer factually. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. Would the Minister please give his answer. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Yes I have read the report and here we have Mr Brownlee scaremongering again. Last month he told the country that the lights were going out— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You have asked that we do not interject too unreasonably when a Minister speaks so I intend not to do that. But it is appropriate Madam Speaker that you keep his answer to a factual basis related to the question. I asked him what has changed. There is no scaremongering in that. I did not write this report; I simply read it. The Minister claims that he has read it so what has changed? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think we should just let the Minister give his answer. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Yes I have read the report and here we have Mr Brownlee scaremongering again. Last month— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Points of order are heard in silence. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: You have asked that we respect the question and answer process; I am doing that. For the Minister to stand up and say that because I am reading a report that has been provided to him—a report that did see the entire operation of Pole 1 shut down last September a report that indicates the huge risks around the operation of this pole—I have asked him simply what has changed. That is not scaremongering; it is unreasonable for you to allow the Minister to answer the question in that light. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Can I suggest that the member himself is now starting to become disorderly. He raised this point of order in exactly the same way he raised the point of order on exactly the same introduction to the answer previously given. To do that therefore is in fact questioning your previous ruling Madam Speaker that the Minister should be allowed to answer. This is a robust exchange and if the member cannot take it he should not ask robust questions or try to give his Budget Policy Statement speech by way of a point of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes. I think if we allowed the Minister to continue—the Minister is allowed to give opinions under the Standing Orders—I am sure he will factually address the question if he is given an opportunity to do so. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Yes as I said I have read the report and I repeat that the last lot of scaremongering from Mr Brownlee said that the lights were going to go out and that cold showers were imminent. His scaremongering was as erroneous then as it is now as were his embarrassing mistakes about Whirinaki. Of course Mr Brownlee’s answer to security of supply— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister is addressing a question and he is going into all sorts of stray ground. The reality is that the security of New Zealand’s electricity supply is still precarious. No one other than the Minister would argue otherwise. The fact is that Whirinaki did burn a million litres of oil and he is not answering the question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I want the Minister to finish his answer and then I will judge whether it was an answer in terms of the Standing Orders. If there is one more interruption by way of a point of order on matters I have already ruled on the member will be leaving the Chamber. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Of course Mr Brownlee’s prescription in respect of security of supply as being coal is shown in his Web video podcast entitled: “Sexy coal”—I kid members not. If members look at the National Party website they will see the “Sexy coal” podcast. It is unbelievable and it just shows how out of touch National members are. They do not know what they believe in. Nick Smith is calling for decreases in electricity emissions— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My colleague Gerry Brownlee asked a very serious question. The Cook Strait cable is one of the most important pieces of infrastructure that New Zealand has. We know that a failure in another country led to significant mercury poisoning for a significant portion of the population and that because of the insurance risk associated with that the Cook Strait cable Pole 1 was closed down last year. My colleague Gerry Brownlee has repeatedly sought an answer from the Minister as to whether those safety issues have been addressed. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member. The member is repeating the former point of order. I have given the member a lot of latitude on this. It is essentially the same point of order. Obviously the Speaker is not the judge of the quality of the answers. However I would ask members to allow the Minister to finish answering the question. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: What! 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Speaker as I said does not judge the quality of the answer. The Minister as I hear him—as much as I can—is addressing the question. It may not be to the satisfaction of the members and I will not take another point of order on the ruling I have already made. I think this was the third or fourth. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. A very clear Standing Order states that Ministers are to answer questions within their ministerial responsibility. I have listened very carefully to the Minister’s answer. He has recited all sorts of things that Mr Brownlee did or did not say. Can you explain to the House—and exactly the same issues arose when you asked Mr Bill English to leave—that Ministers— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated Dr Smith. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I am just asking you to enforce the Standing Orders. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I cannot do what the member asks until I hear the answer. If there is one more intervention I will ask the member to leave the House. Before I can rule I need to hear the answer. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: As I was saying Mr Brownlee’s answer in respect of security of supply is more coal. We have Nick Smith calling for decreases in electricity emissions while National’s spokesperson on energy Mr “Sexy Coal” Brownlee is calling for more. It really is amateur hour on the Opposition benches. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That did not address the question. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Thank you! 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the Minister please address the question. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: The issues as to the safety of the high-voltage direct current link are well addressed by the detail of the material that has been released by Transpower. If the situation was as dire as Mr Brownlee says it is of course Transpower would not be able to insure against the risk. It can insure against the risk which proves that that risk is not too high. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I have not suggested there was any risk; the Government’s own report has said there is a risk. I seek leave again to table that report. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that report. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Peter Brown 
: Has the Minister read any recent reports by Dieter Helm an Oxford University economist and British Government adviser where putting it briefly he suggests that the effect of rising oil and gas prices is leading to big increases in coal burn in China India and the USA; knowing that and accepting his answer of positive security of supply can the Minister tell the House that there will be in the future energy prices at a reasonable and affordable cost? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I have not read the exact report that the member refers to but I have read similar reports and I agree that one of the impacts of higher oil and gas prices has been to cause more coal to be burned internationally. That reinforces one of the points I previously made in this House which is that although carbon capture and storage is not yet here and although it is a very expensive technology and therefore is not central to New Zealand’s interests it is important for the world and we wish that technology development well.