Copeland Gordon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Copeland Gordon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:630;Page:2053] 
4.  
GORDON COPELAND (United Future) 
 to the  
Minister of Transport 
: Does he agree that public-private partnership contracts for road infrastructure are an efficient and cost-effective way to build roads and should be encouraged? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Acting Minister of Transport) 
: 
 The member will be aware that it was this Government that made public-private partnerships a legal possibility. The fact that no one has yet to formally approach us probably reflects the fact that this Government’s huge increase in investment has to some extent crowded out opportunity. 
Gordon Copeland 
: Why has the Government ignored the importance of encouraging private sector involvement in the provision of infrastructure when it is “essential in helping to deliver the much-needed infrastructure required on the national road network” as stated by the Irish Government? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: We do not ignore the private sector. We could not build transport infrastructure without the private sector. They are the only people who build transport infrastructure. We contract to the private sector to build transport infrastructure. Part of the funding comes directly from the private sector and will increasingly do so under the current Minister of Finance. 
Hon Mark Gosche 
: Has the Minister seen a transcript of the Paul Holmes breakfast show this morning on which Mr Holmes said to Tau Henare: “The reason we’ve got all these roading problems in Auckland is because your lot failed completely in the 1990s to spend sufficient money on the Auckland roading infrastructure.” and has the Minister seen the member’s response? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Yes I have. The member in question responded: “You are you are absolutely right. You are absolutely right.” I think the member is absolutely right when he says that is absolutely right. 
Peter Brown 
: Noting the answers to the earlier questions—not the last one—will the Minister tell us precisely what private participation can achieve when it comes to road building that cannot be accomplished by the public sector alone? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Public-private partnerships can have some advantages in the bringing in of new ideas and understandings in terms of construction and management. That is the logical idea. It certainly is not cheaper money because the Government can borrow money more cheaply than the private sector can so it has to be something to do with the ability that the private sector brings to the process. What is also the case is that it is clear from international experience that public-private partnerships do not always work and often work best in large or very large projects. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: In light of the Minister’s answer today that the Government is prepared to proceed with public-private partnerships will he now make available the Government’s share of the investment required to enable the public-private partnership for the construction of the Penlink toll road to proceed given that the failure to proceed with it is strangling access to the Whangaparaoa Peninsula; if not why not? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: In an earlier time as Minister of Transport and prior to the last election I met with those people representing the Penlink proposal. [ 
Interruption 
] I am answering the member’s question if he would like to hold his tongue. I met them in Rodney. I met them prior to the election and I said: “The next thing that has to happen is that you guys need to approach us.” I am still waiting. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: They’ve approached you. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: To my knowledge there has been no formal approach to the Government in respect of Penlink. As far as I am aware there has been no approach. I must say that I want to know why the member voted against the legislation that allowed for this. I want to know that because those members are all in favour of it but when they had a chance to vote in favour of it they all said no. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: It was very difficult to hear the Minister’s answer. [ 
Interruption 
] Just because you shout does not mean you are necessarily heard. 
Peter Brown 
: Does the Minister accept that private involvement in road building will more than likely result in tolls and that employers can usually pass the toll on or make it tax deductible but the average New Zealander has to pay it out of his or her net income; if so does he believe that is fair and just? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: There are many ways to service the capital that needs to be raised for a public-private partnership and tolling is one of them. As the member suggests in his question internationally it is a commonly used method. In a number of countries including the one closest to us it has run into a number of difficulties. Tolling has meant that there has been diversion and that has meant that business models do not always stack up in practice. 
Gordon Copeland 
: Will the Government in the light of the Minister’s complimentary comments about public sector involvement support my member’s bill the Land Transport Management (Public Private Partnerships) Amendment Bill should it be drawn from the ballot which will remove remaining roadblocks to public-private partnerships or does the Government still feel constrained by its pre-2002 agreement with the Greens? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I can say uncomplicatedly that unofficial feedback to the Ministry of Transport from the private sector is that the Land Transport Management Act provisions are not a barrier to private sector involvement in road building. Therefore the member’s bill seeks to correct a problem that as far as I am aware does not exist.