Macindoe TimHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): I must admit I am very partial to a fine drop of sauvignon blanc from the Hon Dr Nick Smith's Nelson-Marlborough area and I've been spending the last few minutes trying to work out how I can work into the appropriations debate a bet that Dr Smith will take with me that he's bound to lose where I will cash in on one of those trials. But anyway I will move on.For those who are listening outside the House they may not be aware of the fact that this isn't just a debate about housing; it is the social development and housing theme that was looked at by the Social Services and Community Committee. So I think having had a good run now on housing it's probably appropriate if we turn our attention to aspects of the social development portfolio.Unfortunately I didn't hear the appropriations review for that particular committee because I'm no longer on it—I was in my early years as an MP. I have to say it's an area that is particularly dear to my heart. I want to focus on the fact that the current Government—and the Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni is in the chair at the moment—has signalled major changes to our welfare system particularly in the area of obligations and sanctions. I would like just to focus on where we've been and where we're going and highlight just how important that is.I think something we can all agree on is that the hallmark of a civilised society is how well we look after the most vulnerable members of it because there's no question that the welfare system—which is surely relevant in this appropriations debate—of which you Madam Chair are a very fine former member—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Don't bring the Chair into it.Hon TIM MACINDOE: I do beg your pardon Madam Chair. I'm desperately trying to show that I'm going—bring you into the debate. As I say the welfare system needs to be able to cater for a very large group of people who in many instances through no fault of their own have fallen on hard times. They may have suffered a significant setback or there may have been a major downturn in industry in their area—for whatever reason they need the welfare system.And yet the quid pro quo of that must be for it to be as generous and compassionate as we all want it to be for those who desperately need it that nobody is abusing the system. So when we hear the current Minister as she did on The Nation on Saturday in an interview in which she said very little and went all around the tracks—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Look it's really interesting but will the member come to the appropriations and talk about the previous six months but not policy that's going on into the future.Hon TIM MACINDOE: Right I'm sorry. The reason I mention this—OK we'll go back—is that in the previous six months we have seen the success of the previous Government's policies: we have seen that unemployment has come down substantially we have seen that we have a record number of New Zealanders now in employment and most importantly we have seen the success of the social investment policy that was followed and was still in operation up until the change of Government initiated by the former finance Minister and latterly Prime Minister the Rt Hon Bill English for which I believe he will be very warmly remembered in New Zealand's history.Throughout the last decade New Zealanders have seen some of the toughest times imaginable. Mr English's driving philosophy was to say We will be there for those who need that support but we need everybody who's running a programme to show us how it works we need them to be accountable for every dollar of taxpayer funding that they are spending"—because after all social development is one of the big Budget areas for any Government—"and we need to be able to see that it is making a real difference." It's not about bean counting; it's about showing what a difference can be made in people's lives to get them out of dependency and into the best form of social security that is possible—and that is paid employment: the ability to become self-reliant for people to be able to look after themselves and their dependants through meaningful work that is paid rather than for long-term dependency to be the norm.For far too long we have seen the trap of intergenerational welfare dependency seeing too many New Zealanders cast aside. I really worry that with the change of policy that is being signalled from the approach that had been taken we're going to go back down that track. So it is worth noting just how significant the previous policies have been. I commend the previous Government for that and I urge the new Minister not to set it aside."