Copeland Gordon: Prostitution Reform Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
Copeland Gordon: Prostitution Reform Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
[Volume:607;Page:4480] 
GORDON COPELAND (United Future) 
: 
 We heard tonight a very good definition of the classical libertarian philosophy of life from both John Key and Deborah Coddington which is basically that adults consenting freely should be able to do whatever they like and it is no one else’s business. 
I could not listen to them speaking in that way without my mind going back to the national values summit which was convened here in Wellington by UNESCO last October. I went to that summit as did a number of other MPs from a variety of parties in this Chamber. It was a most interesting day. UNESCO has made a real commitment to advance the whole cause of character and values education in the education curriculum at schools all over this planet. It has decided it is the most important component in contemporary education. On that day a number of very prominent New Zealanders addressed that summit: Dame Silvia Cartwright Celia Lashlie Apryll Parata Gregory Fortuin and Rosalind Hursthouse the professor of philosophy from Auckland University. I raise a point of order Mr Chairman. The very loud conversation going on next to me is very distracting. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I call for order down at the back of the Chamber please. 
GORDON COPELAND 
: Thank you. Those members were breaking my line of thinking. I would like to have the opportunity to express this very clearly. 
During that day with all those prominent New Zealanders there during the discussion that went on about character education and so forth some things emerged very clearly. The first thing was that young people are not convinced by argument and teaching as much as by example. There was a very strong call from that conference to ask schoolteachers whether they are giving a good example to the children they are teaching and to ask New Zealand parents whether they are giving a good example to their children. Suddenly to my surprise the conference began to point its finger at this House of Parliament and it began to ask very strongly what sort of example we are delivering to the young people of this nation. Young people are saying we should walk the talk. They do not want to listen to our talk; they want to look at our walk. I ask every person here tonight to re-examine his or her conscience and to ask himself or herself this question: what message is the passage of this bill delivering to the young people of this country? I will not answer that question for members but I want them to ask it of themselves. 
There was discussion in this Chamber that somehow or other a vote for this bill would be a vote for the moral right. I say to members that there is no such thing. There is morality and there is immorality. Other people in this debate have said that we cannot legislate for morality. What on earth do we do every time we pass a law? I cannot think of a law that has been passed since I came here to Parliament that does not have a moral dimension. That slogan about not being able to legislate for morality makes me think that people think that morality is just sex. Well it is not. Morality is a very very broad definition of a whole lot of things. People can do doctorate degrees in morality. I ask members to believe me when I say we are legislating for morality every single day in this Chamber. I do not believe that that argument holds any water whatsoever. 
I would also like to add this point: I was one of those who supported homosexual law reform. At that point in time in this nation there was a groundswell of opinion asking that this House no longer consider people who were engaged in homosexual acts as criminals and that it stop sending them to jail. I was one of those people who said that that was wrong and needed to stop. 
In respect of this bill which aims to decriminalise pimping and brothel-keeping in particular I ask where the groundswell of opinion is in this country that specifically asks this House to decriminalise those two things. I have looked at the submissions that have come here to the Justice and Electoral Committee with some care and I have seen that a lot of those submissions were about things like safety health not stigmatising prostitutes and so forth.