2. Question No. 2—Prime MinisterHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime MinisterQuestion No. 2—Prime Minister2. Hon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government's statements and actions?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes particularly the Government's work to prevent and respond to COVID-19 including in more recent times the work that Prime Minister Morrison and I and the Foreign Ministers the Rt Hon Winston Peters and Marise Payne are undertaking on a trans-Tasman COVID safe travel zone as soon as it is safe to do so. A trans-Tasman COVID safe travel zone would be mutually beneficial—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! I'm frustrated.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —assisting our trade and economic recovery helping kickstart tourism and transport sectors enhancing sporting contacts and reuniting family and friends. This arrangement recognises that Australia and New Zealand are working hard to successfully address the spread of COVID-19. The global pandemic is hitting every nation and we are moving to cushion the blow for businesses and workers in this country as fast as we can safely do so.Hon Simon Bridges: Does she stand by her Government's decision to have a more extreme economic lockdown than Australia given the comment from Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison who she's referred to that the health outcomes in Australia are on a per capita basis actually better"?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I point out—and I know this because I had this conversation with Prime Minister Morrison—he is often asked questions comparing the favourable results in New Zealand relative to Australia in the same way that the Leader of the Opposition attempts to do to me. So I point out that the context of those questions is often because in Australia they perceive New Zealand to have done well something I know the member of the Opposition is not keen to acknowledge.Hon Simon Bridges: So does she agree when Scott Morrison says that the health outcomes in Australia are "on a per capita basis actually better"?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would point out today there have been 33 cases across three states in Australia. I wish our counterparts in Australia only the best. It is in both our interests that we successfully win the battle against this virus. But as we are all experiencing managing the tail at this point—when we're trying to get ourselves in a position to get back to some normality—is not easy as Australia is experiencing and I hope that we don't.Hon Simon Bridges: Does she agree with Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison that "Just having a low number of cases is not a success particularly when you have a lot of people out of work"?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again I point out that often some of those answers are prefaced on the fact that people are pushing for a low number of cases because that is one of the best ways that we can successfully get ourselves back to the situation of relative normality. And that is our goal in New Zealand. What we need—and I know this is not a position the Leader of the Opposition necessarily agrees with but we do not need at this time to roll the dice. We do not need to risk all of the gains that we have only just begun to make. We need steady predictable progress because that will provide the best groundwork for an economic recovery that we possibly can.Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that having a low number of cases isn't success if you've got exponentially rising unemployment?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: What will make unemployment worse is yo-yoing back and forth in your response because that loses the predictability that the business community wants and needs. I will not roll the dice and risk losing the gains New Zealanders have only just made. We need to make predictable balanced progress and that is what we are focused on as a Government. I also point out that the member is not quick to make all of the comparisons with Australia. Australia's Parliament has been suspended to August—not something we would do here so not every comparison is a favourable one.Hon Grant Robertson: In light of the supplementary questions that have come before can the Prime Minister confirm that as at 24 April an additional 500000 people had gone on to unemployment assistance in Australia?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes and another point that I'll make is of course we moved very quickly to get support to employers to support their employees. My understanding is that no cash has been paid yet for their equivalent of a wage subsidy—something that we moved very very quickly on.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Prime Minister is it her view that if you were to multiply by five our two of today as against the 33 in Australia that would be a very sad and unfavourable comparison; and rather than gloating we should sympathise with the Australian people?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That's exactly right. The point that we're making here is that we want both sides of the Tasman to do well. They are grappling with a small number of outbreaks—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! I ask the Prime Minister to sit down. I am getting sick of the Leader of the Opposition trying to shout down the Prime Minister. I'm trying to listen to her answer and it's getting difficult.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I was saying they're dealing with a small number of outbreaks but it points to the vulnerability that we're all in as we try to balance that exit out of the restrictions that both countries have had. As I say we've been working hard to share advice and information because we want only the best for our trans-Tasman cousins and success for both of us.Hon Simon Bridges: How many people does the Government expect to lose their job this year?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: There have been a wide number of predictions the best of which has been unemployment reaching—under just one of the scenarios for Treasury—around 8.5 percent but of course it could be higher than that. All of it depends on the amount of investment that we're successfully able to make to support people into work to ensure we have good job creation and to support those who may have lost their income.Hon Simon Bridges: Are reports correct that the Ministry of Social Development are currently preparing for an additional 300000 people to apply for the unemployment benefit this year?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course you would expect our social development agency to prepare for unemployment and people seeking jobseeker. What we have also been doing though is not just preparing for that but trying to work to prevent it. The wage subsidy has been specifically designed to try and support people to stay connected to their workforce so that they don't need to enter into an unemployment benefit. In terms of the most recent numbers for social development support my recollection for the member is that in the last week it increased by about 6000; in the previous week it was about 9000.Hon Chris Hipkins: Can the Prime Minister confirm that increases of up to 288000 people on a benefit would be possible under one of Treasury's more severe economic scenarios that they released on 13 April and that the Government has dismissed that scenario on the basis that we intend to provide more support than the scenario is based on?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes. The member would do well to keep in mind that some of the Treasury economic modelling included for instance a scenario where New Zealand would be in a form of lockdown for a year. Obviously that is not something that we have entertained and we have worked very hard to go hard go early and get us back to a normality—Hon Simon Bridges: All spin Grant; you know it.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —with as little risk as possible.Hon Chris Hipkins: Stop talking the country down.SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the House should know better than to wind up the Leader of the Opposition.Hon Simon Bridges: Why isn't the Government focused on saving jobs instead of preparing for them to go on to the dole?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The precise reason that we designed the wage subsidy and brought it into effect before we even had a lockdown in New Zealand was for the very reason that we wanted people to keep their connection to work. That is also why we designed it to be paid out through an employer rather than for instance the Ministry of Social Development; it was because we were focused on keeping people in work. It's also why we designed a package that had elements to it like tax refunds. It's also why we created a redeployment fund. It's all been about keeping people in the dignity and security of work.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Prime Minister contrary to former times is she saying that Treasury's not running the country any more but the people of New Zealand through their elected representatives are?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously we've provided advice. Obviously in these cases we provided a range of scenarios. But I think what we also have to acknowledge and Treasury would acknowledge this too: these are very uncertain times. That's why they created a range of scenarios. Of course we would do well as a Government to make sure we prepare but also do everything in our power to keep people in work. We are for instance as one party in this coalition Government called the Labour Party.Hon Chris Hipkins: Which scenario is likely to result in the greatest number of job losses: getting it right the first time or rushing an end to the lockdown and having to go back into lockdown because there are further outbreaks?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Getting it right the first time. You'll see that we've been very clear every time that the reason we have taken a balanced approach rather than taken risks is because of that very fact. That's something that's been reinforced by the likes of Treasury in the advice that they have provided. Again I point out to the member that some of the worst scenarios produced by Treasury are those that have us in long periods of lockdown because of loss of control. That results in unemployment rates as high as 17.5 percent. No one wants that.Hon Simon Bridges: Is the reality that today in fact the Prime Minister's wrong and it's 25 not 33—I think she said—cases in Australia?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: My reference was to just three states.Hon Simon Bridges: Does she accept that every day we remain in lockdown more businesses will collapse and more people will lose their jobs?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Even more businesses will collapse and even more businesses will lose their jobs if we roll the dice and take risks against gains that we have only just made. The mere suggestion from that member that we are not mindful of people's lives and livelihoods is just wrong; everything we do factors in the impact of our decision on them. But I will not gamble their jobs by taking risky knee-jerk decisions that don't protect their long-term futures."