Webb DuncanDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): I was only just today reading an article from that excellent publication The Spinoff headed: You wouldn't eat a kiwi—so why is whitebait okay?" And I thought it was a great article I must say because you know the extraordinary thing is that whitebait are as endangered as kiwi. I would impress upon the members on the other side—there they are—to have a bit of a read of this: this 2017—which largely repeats a 2013—study telling us about the conservation of New Zealand freshwater fishes. And do you know what? It tells us that one of the species is on the threatened list; not threatened with the frypan but threatened with extinction. And yet here we have a party that is saying it is our God-given right to go out and grab our whitebait and fish them to extinction. If that's private property you can have it. That fact is that we are stewards of our indigenous fish of our flora and our fauna.Look here we have these fish which are currently not protected at all. The Wildlife Act protects 12 species of weevil and yet we don't protect our indigenous fish. If you took the time to actually have a look at these these are actually fabulous creatures—creatures that can climb up a waterfall creatures which at maturity are fantastic and important parts of our flora and fauna. The irony is that if we were to trade these internationally we would be in breach of the CITES treaty—the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. So along with elephants and rhinoceroses these are actually endangered fish. These are fish which we have committed internationally to protect.Here we have Ms Dowie saying that our whitebaiters have an absolute right to go and pull them out of our waterways. Well look I don't deny that gathering of food is an important tradition in many parts of our country. You know what? We want to preserve it but you don't preserve it by doing nothing. Not by the nine years of nothing that happened on the other side. This is an issue that needs addressing. We can't solve it right away. It needs a long-term approach. That's what this Government is going to do. It's going to take a long-term approach to make sure we can restore these fisheries by appropriate management not saying "It's yours. It's private property. Go and pillage it until they're extinct." but taking a balanced approach.The transition is important. There is a moratorium. We want to make sure that people aren't immediately deprived of what they thought they were going to be able to do come September-November. But we're going to take a balanced approach and make sure that the spawning grounds that are on conservation land are protected because that's the only way we're going to have these fish available for years to come.Of all of the other species one is absolutely threatened and the others are all declining. They've been declining for years. We need to turn that around. It's a tough job but we've got to look ahead not just to what's going to happen to the next whitebait season but the next one and the next one and the next one. Look ahead for 30 years not just for one two or three. So we can't solve this straight away but it's time to start.It's absolutely mischievous—it's pernicious to start calling this a ban because it's absolutely not. It is managing in a responsible way. There is nothing in this legislation which talks about banning on non-conservation land. So the vast majority of the streams and rivers that people have their nets on people can still have their nets on. For one minute I do not apologise for saying that spawning grounds—if reasonably identified by the Minister—need to be protected because that is the absolute heart of this fishery. If we have people disrupting spawning grounds the fisheries will die. The fish will become extinct.We're very lucky in many ways that as far we know only one native fish has become extinct in New Zealand to date but of this long list of indigenous fish in New Zealand almost all—the vast majority—are declining or threatened and some on the brink of extinction. So that's why all of our indigenous fish need protection. Just because it's not furry doesn't mean we shouldn't look after it. The fact of the matter is that these are an important part of our flora and fauna so it's no good muddying the waters saying that this is a ban because it's simply not. It's management. We won't be sold down the river by the National Party telling us that they're protecting the rights of New Zealanders when in fact they're not. All they're doing is—Hon Andrew Little: They're making it worse.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Absolutely Minister Little they're making it worse. They'd be destroying our infrastructure. So the whole thing is really just a beat-up by the National Party where we are absolutely trying to protect the rights of people to go fishing in perpetuity. So it's no good to have the National Party meme of private property again and again. And we know that every responsible landowner wants to protect the flora and fauna on their property including indigenous fish and other native species. But what we want to be able to see is that the Minister of Conversation can identify those sensitive areas inform the owners and the owners I'm sure will not be unhappy to know that they have an important spawning ground on their property and if they were thinking of running a bulldozer over it that would be a bad idea. That's absolutely what it's about because we know that everyday New Zealanders want to be good stewards of the land and good stewards of the flora and fauna. So we want to see it absolutely protected—these fabulous creatures which really are an important part of our fauna.So what we have here is a long-term approach. An approach which finally—and the other thing is it was absolutely aberrant that we had these whitebait native fish as practically the only native species not captured by either the Conservation Act or the Wildlife Act. So all of our native wildlife is covered by the Wildlife Act—absolutely protected. You can go to jail if you kill it. You can go to jail if you try to export it. But the whitebait—just as important—and many of our other fish and including our eels as member Marcroft pointed out are not protected. All of a sudden we're aligning these pieces of legislation bringing them into alignment with each other so that we are protecting this. What happens on the other side of the House? They cry foul. I am absolutely astounded that they're not supporting this bill and that they would see us fish these things to extinction.This is an issue that we're addressing. We're addressing it now. It's a long-term issue but we're taking a balanced careful and fair approach and I'm proud of that."