Wilkinson Kate: Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Wilkinson Kate: Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:632;Page:4100] 
KATE WILKINSON (National) 
: 
 In rising to support the bill I have to say that 7 years was a long time to wait for it to come into the House. Seven years ago National introduced similar legislation and Labour did not value its merit then. It has taken the Government 7 long years to now see the importance of the matter. The bill provides for an information-matching programme between Housing New Zealand Corporation and the Ministry of Social Development. 
All that the bill does is to enable the corporation to provide information to the ministry to help the ministry—no more and no less than that. The bill is not as the Maori Party has asserted a “spy bill”. It is not an “SIS bill”. It relates only to information disclosed to one ministry: the Ministry of Social Development. I disagree with the previous speaker from the Maori Party who claimed that the ministry already has the power to collect the information through informed consent. I really do wonder how realistic it is to say that when the bill deals with cheats. I do not know of many cheats who would voluntarily inform their details to a ministry so that they could then be caught cheating. The bill is about the cheats; it is not about discriminating against beneficiaries. Furthermore the bill is not about all information but is merely about information needed for the purpose of helping the ministry firstly to verify the entitlement or eligibility of any person to or for any benefit; secondly to verify the amount of any benefit to which any person is or was entitled or to which any person is or was eligible; and thirdly to recover debts due to the Crown—acting by and through the department—in respect of benefits. 
 We have heard in previous readings of the bill that there are four reasons why the information-matching mechanism is desired. They are firstly to assist the ministry in minimising and recovering beneficiary and student debt arising from benefit and allowance overpayments; secondly to provide early intervention in cases that could result in the creation of substantial debt; thirdly to assist in the detection of fraud and to help to track people who are in debt to the ministry; and fourthly to identify beneficiaries who are not receiving the correct income support entitlements. Put simply this bill is designed to uncover and detect fraud and fraudulent activity that dishonestly use the taxes of hard-working New Zealanders. Who would not want such activities to be stopped or at least reduced if not prevented? Who would not want to catch those cheats? 
It is interesting to note that there are some 65000 Housing New Zealand Corporation properties and that approximately 190000 individuals reside in them. That is a lot of houses and a lot of people. State houses should be available for families who need such assistance but not for those who just want them and think they are their right. We have heard that nearly 7000 State tenants have paying boarders. When those board payments are not taken into account or disclosed then that amounts to a situation whereby the State and taxpayers are being ripped off—not by all tenants but by enough to justify this bill. State houses are intended for needy families not for people who run a boarding house business and make money at the expense of needy families and hard-working taxpayers. Many tenants in State houses receive money from boarders pocket that money and do not declare the rent they receive as part of their income. But it is income it is fraudulent to not declare such income and that defrauds hard-working New Zealand taxpayers. 
We have heard objections that under the privacy legislation this bill is not acceptable—that it is an infringement on the privacy of citizens and on their rights. I say that many people are so focused on their rights and on what they believe are their absolute rights that they forget their corresponding duties and obligations: the obligation to pay the rent the obligation not to defraud hard-working New Zealand taxpayers the obligation not to cheat the system and the obligation not to defraud. How far can the cheats in our system hide behind the privacy veil and claim their right to privacy when they publicly and flagrantly cheat hard-working New Zealand taxpayers? Do the cheats really deserve total immunity from prosecution by claiming the defence of privacy? I do not think so. And how much double-dipping is our society required to put up with without saying and doing anything about it? 
This bill will do something about it. It has been scrutinised by the Privacy Commissioner—from a privacy point of view—who knows that the bill aims to address double-dipping whereby tenants obtain more financial assistance than they are entitled to from the two Government departments: the double-dipping of receiving subsidised housing provided through Housing New Zealand Corporation and the payment of accommodation assistance. As the commissioner observed very large sums of money are paid out by the Ministry of Social Development in delivering welfare assistance. Protecting that money is a matter of significant public importance. Her report states: “We are of the opinion that the use of the programme will bring monetary savings in terms of identifying fraud and overpayments and these are likely to be both significant and quantifiable. We also accept that it may lead to early detection of overpayments and that this may result in benefits to society. The commonality of information reduces the privacy concern about MSD acquiring an unwarranted and intrusive view of its clients’ affairs as a result of this match.” 
Not all Housing New Zealand Corporation records will be disclosed and not every bit of information about Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants will be disclosed. This is a “catch the cheat” bill that is not dissimilar to the information matching that is currently permitted under the Department of Corrections - Ministry of Social Development inmates match and the Inland Revenue Department - Ministry of Justice fines defaulters match. The common denominator with those matches is that they are aimed at the cheats—those who are stealing from hard-working New Zealand taxpayers. Cheats have to know that if they break the rules they run the risk of being caught. For the majority of good responsible rent-paying rule-abiding State tenants this bill will hold no fear. The cheats are now more likely to be caught through the information-matching processes prescribed by the bill being put in place. 
There is a mischief out there and there are cheats in our system—the double-dippers. Those cheats need to be caught. But we also need to be practical and realistic. To set up this information-matching procedure will cost money both to set it up and to administer it. In order to be financially viable the savings must outweigh the costs. We understand the Ministry of Social Development expects to save about $1.4 million a year. We need to ensure that the costs do not exceed the savings. This information-matching process is not designed just to be nosy about people; it is about detecting fraud preventing double-dipping catching the cheats and ensuring proper transparency and the accountability of the tax dollar. This bill does not allow Housing New Zealand Corporation to disclose information about its tenants to all and sundry—to debt collectors and others—but is limited to information disclosed to the Ministry of Social Development about tenants who are receiving taxpayer-funded benefits or a taxpayer-funded service. It is to ensure that the taxpayer is not being ripped off and to ensure that the tenant is not double-dipping and cheating the system. 
 State houses are for those in need. There is a considerable waiting list for State houses and State tenants have a responsibility to be honest. They should not be rewarded for dishonesty—for fraud. Taxpayers have a right to know that their taxes are being spent properly by going to those in need and not augmenting the coffers of the cheats. After 7 long years we now have a sensible bill. National supports this Housing Restructuring and Tenancy Matters (Information Matching) Amendment Bill.