O'Connor SimonSIMON O'CONNOR (National—Tāmaki): I get confused these days about how often Greg O'Connor speaks before me and then myself. There seems to be some sort of plan here to have one O'Connor follow another. We'll have to get Damien in to speak after this.I want to acknowledge what Greg was saying—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! Order! The member will refer to other members by their full names—Damien O'Connor.SIMON O'CONNOR: Well I could call him Greg O'Connor; that's probably more accurate but there we go.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Well just if Simon O'Connor would like to resume his speech.SIMON O'CONNOR: He would and he'll speak in the first person. Great to be speaking on the Incorporated Societies Bill. Greg O'Connor noted that he's going to an AGM tonight. As an Auckland MP I'd have to say it's been over 95 days since I've been able to attend an AGM of an incorporated society. It's just a small reflection on the dynamics which are happening.Hon Member: I did AGMs on Zoom.Hon Member: Not by Zoom.SIMON O'CONNOR: And I hear someone say Oh well they could just do it on Zoom." but of course if you understand incorporated societies which fortunately this side of the House does it has to be in the rules. And often you have to have quorum. So the Minister's right if they've thought ahead and they've changed their rules to allow a Zoom AGM but most of them haven't been able to do that because they haven't been able to form together in person to change the rules to make the requisite changes. However this is a bill which National supports because fundamentally it's bringing about the changes which are needed. And if I could riff if you will off that previous comment about particularly in Auckland AGMs that cannot happen we are seeing now incorporated societies trying to update their rules to reflect a modern environment. And so it's not a surprise therefore that the Parliament is looking to revise and update its rules.As most speakers have noted in their contributions in the House it was 1908 that this Act the current Act that we're looking to change was passed. I'm not going to entertain the House with a list of historical facts of what happened in 1908. I would have handed that over to Winston Peters in New Zealand First in the past to do but they're not here at the moment. But what we're seeing is a bill that's long overdue. In fact Greg O'Connor noted it quite correctly: when a piece of law is still referring to shillings you know that the legislation needs updating.Importantly this was work I believe that was begun in 2015 by the then National Government which has been fortunately picked up by the current Government and has proceeded through here of course to its second reading. I'm not going to go through all the select committee work. It's fair to say for those tuning in that this is quite a complicated piece of legislation not because the issues of incorporated societies are complex but if you look at the original piece of legislation the intricacies required to update it have been many and the select committee's done I think a relatively good job of handling things there.Look some of the most key themes which come out of this are first and foremost recognising there are different sizes in incorporated societies. I believe New Zealand Rugby would be an example of an incorporated society—it's huge; hundreds of millions of dollars—right through to very small incorporated societies be it in Auckland or any other part of the country. This bill—this proposed piece of legislation—enables different tiers of responsibility. In other words we're not going to put in—I think that's a really good step by the Government and certainly the recommendations of the select committee not to put onerous burdens on to the smaller incorporated societies. I mean that's a logical thing to do. There's always been a bit of debate of where you draw the line and I think $50000 has popped out as the line. So a lot of New Zealand's incorporated societies are very small—well small in terms of numbers small in terms of their cash assets and work but actually importantly a major and huge contribution as every member here would know.Importantly the legislation's also here to impose new duties on those who run incorporated societies. It was something in the original 1908 Act that wasn't overly articulated. And again for those listening at home what it's attempting to do or what this piece of legislation is proposing to do is pretty much mirror that of what company directors board directors would have. So they've got important duties now to undertake. And I suspect having been on incorporated societies as pretty much I'm sure just about every member here will be in one way shape or form it's going to be quite important for those members of incorporated societies to understand what their new duties are if and when this piece of legislation passes through the House.There's also penalties as you would expect that are going to come through for that. So not only are duties going to be given and therefore responsibilities held by those leading incorporated societies but there are requisite penalties. I mean there's basically no point in telling them to do something if there's not a penalty in play. And not to be flippant those penalties are well described and are now in much more modern nomenclature along with the appropriate numismatic figures that one would expect.Importantly too as we say the reporting requirements are changing. A lot of it's around the various accounting standards that are required. I'm not going to go into that at length because actually it was last year this House went through an enormous debate around two different types of accounting processes which had to be aligned. Fortunately that's not going to be a major issue here with this Incorporated Societies Bill but it is updating what is required there. But as I mentioned earlier smaller societies $50000 and under are going to have a different set of requirements to the large ones as you would expect. As I said to pick on New Zealand Rugby conscious they're actually going through a lot of discussions at the moment when you're making over—well not making if you are an incorporated society worth hundreds of millions of dollars you are definitely going to expect a different level of reporting requirement.Importantly too there's a transition period that's been incorporated into the bill. That's just smart understandings. No incorporated society is going to be able to pivot that quickly and doubly so—again if I can use the Auckland example which I picked up much much earlier—it's going to be hard for a number of incorporated societies both with the COVID lockdown restrictions plus I might add as we head into the summer period it's going to be very very hard for these incorporated societies to meet and make the changes necessary. So there is a transition period—I think it's about 2½ years. Happy to be corrected on that not through a privileges complaint but just send me a letter would be appropriate.Hon Member: Ha ha!SIMON O'CONNOR: I always get worried when some of my colleagues laugh. It indicates there might be a letter coming. But look long and short there's about a 2½ year transition which I think will be appropriate time. It's probably too late now. I mean we could look at a Supplementary Order Paper in the upcoming stages to see whether there's some flexibility that could be added there if this lockdown continues if the love of rules and regulations continues from the Government. Maybe we won't be as free as we'd like to be in 2½ years but that's something that we can discuss at the committee of the whole House.There are also some requirements around incorporated societies that are not listed as charities. Again an important distinction. Some of these societies can be incorporated and charities some are not. That's going to be relatively important. This bill well handles that.Importantly too actually there's going to be a mechanism for incorporated societies to amalgamate or come together. It may seem a small matter but actually with the tens of thousands of incorporated societies out there a lot of them doing good work which replicates others you do need a mechanism for them to form up and in fact that's going to be far more efficient not only for them but often these societies are serving people in the community so there's a real benefit there.They're also suggesting that the number of members required moves from—again anyone who's been involved with an incorporated society knows you need to get 15 people—it's one of those magic numbers—to actually be incorporated. And you run around busily collecting signatures. That's going to be reduced by this bill to 10 people. And I think that's again quite pragmatic. Again it won't surprise any members in the House here who are a part of incorporated societies or sports clubs dare I say even political parties—not the larger ones some of the smaller ones—actually getting a number of active members these days is quite difficult. So I think having it at 10 is quite appropriate.So as I said at the start—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! Sorry to interrupt the member. In accordance with the determination of the Business Committee I call on Government order of the day No. 27. I declare the House in committee for the special debate on current issues and priorities."