Smith Damien; Webb DuncanDAMIEN SMITH (ACT): Thank you Madam Chair. To the Minister just around Part 1 clause 3 Purpose" which has the definition of promoting "competition and efficiency in the grocery industry for the long-term benefit of the consumers in New Zealand." how does he see the day when this market is operating well and what are the criteria around the purpose of this bill to actually guarantee that the market is fully functional and is being competitive? Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Thank you Madam Chair. In respect of Mr Bayly's first comment relating to clause 4(2) the monitoring and reporting function of the commission is actually a critical part of this bill because we know that information really is power in this kind of situation. We absolutely want to make sure that that information is properly gathered and that it is gathered in a fulsome way and then of course important to that is its analysis and provision to the public so that there is transparency around exactly what's going on in the market what profits are being made and where they're being made. So I think that's a really important part of those objectives. Equally in supporting participants to comply with and understand industry regulation that's also of course an important function of the commission. This bill does contain civil penalties but by far and away the best way to get compliance is to encourage people to understand the regime and understand its detail of how to comply and then what you'll get is a much better-functioning market. Then of course we will get a functional market where people can compete effectively and can have confidence when they compete with each other that they're doing it on an even playing field. The member Melissa Lee asked how quickly. Good news: now. The fact that this bill is imminent and this legislation is going through the House has clearly influenced the market. We've already seen the major grocery retailers open up their wholesale network to others. We've seen competitors enter the market in anticipation of it becoming more competitive—like Costco Circle K and of course The Warehouse is having a dabble around the edges as well. Mr Bayly referred to the Grocery Commissioner and when we get to the relevant part I'll address those questions unless of course the member would like to take the whole bill as one part. In terms of Mr Damien Smith's question essentially I think the question from Mr Smith was how we will know when we see success. That is why we have the Commerce Commission because the grocery sector is complex. We need a high degree of expertise to measure the market and determine whether it is acting competitively and that doesn't just mean price competition. It's great to see prices going down and if you shop around Melissa Lee—and when you're filling your supermarket trolley do shop around because that's the best way to effect competition. But it's also seeing good innovation a good range of services and a good range of products and seeing them delivered to the consumer in a different way. Now when that happens that's when the Commerce Commission will be able to look and report using those functions in clause 4 to come back to us and say "We think we've improved competition." But can I also add this: competition is something we will always be striving for and it's an ongoing struggle to make sure markets remain competitive."