Power Simon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Power Simon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:633;Page:5059] 
7.  
SIMON POWER (National—Rangitikei) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Can he confirm that the agreement between the Department of Corrections and Chubb New Zealand Ltd for the provision of prisoner escort services includes a service delivery component that “Unless otherwise agreed with the Department of Corrections” prisoners under the age of 20 “must be kept separate from all other Prisoners” and how does he reconcile this with his statement that “the law states that when outside a prison prisoners under 18 years of age must be kept apart from adult prisoners where practicable”? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 Yes the agreement with Chubb specifies a higher level of protection for youth. The contract does not include the words “where practicable”. This separation of youth from adult prisoners should occur in all instances except where the Department of Corrections and Chubb agree otherwise. 
Simon Power 
: Did the Department of Corrections decide that Liam Ashley should be locked into a compartment with a violent offender on the way to prison from court in light of the fact that under the agreement with Chubb that could occur only with the agreement of the department? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I am not prepared to speculate on what might have occurred on that tragic day. That is what the inquiries and investigations will uncover. 
Martin Gallagher 
: What has the Minister done since the death of Mr Ashley to protect youth who are being transported under the care of the Department of Corrections? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: On Monday 28 August I issued a directive to the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections for him to issue an instruction to both departmental staff and contractors that prohibits the transportation of youth aged under 18 years in the same vehicle compartment as adult prisoners. I can confirm that the chief executive’s instruction has been issued and is being fully complied with. 
Pita Paraone 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker. Is it not true that the department’s decision to use a private security company to transport prisoners rather than trained departmental officers is purely a cost-saving measure and does he now feel that the savings might not be worth the associated risks; if not why not? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: The contract for the Auckland region has been in place since 1998. Roughly 220000 prisoners have been transported. Thankfully we have not had an incident like this before. All these issues will be looked at. It is not a cost-saving exercise that drives this contract. 
Simon Power 
: Who made the decision to lock Liam Ashley into a compartment with a violent offender on the way to prison from court; if the Minister does not know by now a week after this tragic event why not? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I am not prepared to jeopardise undermine or prejudge the five inquiries that are taking place into this horrific tragedy. 
Simon Power 
: Why was Liam Ashley locked into a compartment with a violent offender when the judge sought an assurance that he would be kept separate in custody; if he did have to share a compartment why was it not with a non-violent offender such as the Indian overstayer? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: There has been much speculation and many prejudgments on this incident. I am not prepared to add to that. I await the outcomes of these inquiries to clearly identify what happened on that day and if the recommendations are that changes should be made then they will be made. 
Simon Power 
: Does he agree with the reported view of Peter Williams QC that in cases such as Liam Ashley’s: “The Corrections Department must take the responsibility even if they have allocated it to Chubb.”; if not why not? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: There are a number of Government agencies involved—the courts the police the Department of Corrections—and a subcontractor. I am not prepared to prejudge where mistakes were made—if they were made—on that tragic day. 
Simon Power 
: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that it is “totally unacceptable” and “abhorrent that a 17-year-old should be murdered in the back of a prison van. Something is very badly wrong.”; if so has the Minister followed the convention of individual ministerial responsibility and offered his resignation to the Prime Minister? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I agree with the Prime Minister that this is a terrible tragedy. We shall await the outcomes of the inquiries to discover what happened on that tragic day and what changes may need to occur.