Twyford Phil: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeTwyford Phil: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 17 February 2015. Volume:703;Page:1595. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.PHIL TWYFORD (Labour—Te Atatū) to the Minister responsible for HNZC: What is the projected change in percentage and absolute terms of Housing New Zealand’s land holdings in both area (hectares) and dollar value over the next three years?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister responsible for HNZC): Housing New Zealand advises that over the next 3 years based on its current asset management strategy it expects to acquire around 3900 new homes and divest around 3500 that are primarily the wrong type or in the wrong place. This is part of its business-as-usual programme. Specific properties for divestment and acquisition have not yet been individually identified so I cannot answer the member’s question in detail or confirm changes in land area or value. These figures exclude recent announcements from the Government’s social housing reform programme and they could change because the asset management strategy will be updated in view of the social housing programme after a strategic review in the first half of this year.Phil Twyford: Will he guarantee that all of the up to 8000 State houses he plans to sell by 2017 will be sold to non-profit community housing providers and none to private interests?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No because it may well be for instance that the 1300 or 1400 houses that are unusable—that is because they are earthquake-prone or otherwise they cannot be tenanted—may well be houses that no social housing provider would want. It may be that other stock is simply in a place where there is no demand for social housing. The member needs to bear in mind that in any given year Housing New Zealand sells 300 to 500 houses directly into the private market and we do not see any reason why that should change.Phil Twyford: What proportion of the up to 8000 houses he plans to sell by 2017 does he expect to be sold to private interests as opposed to non-profit community housing providers?Hon BILL ENGLISH: You know if the member is concernedabout for instance the scheme where we sell houses to tenants—in some cases with assistance—we intend to continue doing that. I cannot give the member an answer about what proportion. That will be driven not by some ideological view about how many houses a Government should own; it will be driven by the needs of tenants. If Housing New Zealand owns houses that tenants do not need or that are not appropriate for tenants then it will divest those houses.Phil Twyford: How will he prevent houses sold to community housing providers being sold on and ending up in the hands of private landlords and property speculators?Hon BILL ENGLISH: As we get closer to the process of testing the market on selling some tenanted houses to social housing providers there will be a discussion about the extent to which there are safeguards for the tenant. But I would have to say that the Government is not that concerned about retaining forever access to any particular house. That is because of the track record Governments have of making tenants go into houses the Government owns even if they are not that suitable for the tenants. So our overriding priority which that member does find hard to understand is the tenants: looking after their serious housing need giving them security of tenure while their need remains which in some cases is 20 years but also assisting them back into housing independence because many of them do not need to be in a social house for ever.Phil Twyford: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was quite specific. It concerned whether the Government will be able to prevent houses being onsold. The Minister gave us a seminar on the social housing policy and the reasons for it but did not actually address the question.Mr SPEAKER: If I recall the question right there was also talk about safeguard for tenants and the Minister spent quite some time talking about the tenants being important so on this occasion—well the member can shake his head all he likes but I have determined that the question has been addressed.Phil Twyford: Can he confirm that the Government is considering offering a Government guarantee to community housing providers to secure the finance because as everybody knows a bank will not lend money on a house that cannot be onsold?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I do not know what the member is referring to there. The Labour Party may not have noticed but the private ownership of houses is not a deep dark secret in New Zealand. In fact he might find that a vast majority of houses are owned by those nasty profit-making private individuals. I know that it is Labour’s policy to own every house in New Zealand but we take a slightly more balanced view.Phil Twyford: Is he surprised that Major Campbell Roberts of the Salvation Army says he is “irritated” by the Government’s social housing policy when the Prime Minister says things like he would be amazed if the likes of the Salvation Army were hesitant to get involved if it saw a way to make money off the investment?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Well Major Campbell Roberts has made an outstanding contribution to the development of social housing policy in the last 5 years. He was part of the original advisory group which made it very clear to this Government that the Government was doing a poor job of State housing and that there were much better alternatives for enabling people to live better lives if we dealt with their housing needs more effectively. I have had many discussions with Major Campbell Roberts over the policy. He raises any number of interesting and sometimes difficult questions but there is no doubt that his purpose and ours is the same: to do a better job for New Zealand’s most vulnerable citizens and that is what we are setting out to do.