Reti ShaneDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei): Thank you Madam Chair. Well clause 5 very clearly starts to talk to loose-leaf. We can see that it actually talks about smoking it talks about smokes and it then leads itself to a topic under the terminal exception and statutory defence of smoked loose-leaf. There can be no doubt that this is included in this bill. We know this for any number of reasons. First of all written parliamentary question 489 to the Minister: Will terminally ill cannabis users be able to possess and use cannabis leaf under the Misuse of Drugs (Medicinal Cannabis) Amendment Bill?" The Minister replied: "The Bill will not restrict the exception and defence to the possession and use of cannabis to any particular dosage form."Secondly in July the Hon Paula Bennett asked the acting Prime Minister and New Zealand First leader in the House: does he support loose-leaf cannabis being available through the Government's medicinal cannabis bill? He declined to refute that. Her next question was the same: does he support loose-leaf cannabis being available through the Government's medicinal cannabis bill? And again he declined. If there was any further doubt we see in other clauses that we are authorising or being asked to authorise utensils such as pipes. So absolutely no question: the temporary terminal exception and statutory defence authorises loose-leaf cannabis.The question we have and I'd challenge the Minister on this is: if a patient is started on smoked loose-leaf cannabis under the temporary terminal exception and the exception then concludes and the patient has had relief will the medicinal cannabis scheme stop smoked loose-leaf cannabis? I would contend that that's unethical. If you do a drug trial and a person benefits from the drug you can't stop the drug. Therefore the contention is that smoked loose-leaf cannabis will extend into the full medicinal cannabis scheme and the National Party cannot and will not support that.The issues of smoked loose-leaf are quite clear: we're concerned for quality we're concerned for decontaminants we have some concerns about normalising loose-leaf in the community—the referendum will speak to that. Access and affordability have been a concern in our hands. We spoke to that across several parts of a medicinal cannabis scheme. Some would say that medicinal cannabis products have a slow dose time response curve that might be a matter of hours say for tablets. Correct and smoked loose-leaf may give you that but so will vaped solutions. In fact if we look overseas at New York and their medicinal cannabis scheme they forbid smoked loose-leaf; so there's certainly international precedent for this.I need to make it very clear and we should have clear visibility on this that New Zealand First is supporting loose-leaf cannabis—be in no doubt. On several grounds New Zealand First is supporting loose-leaf cannabis. We raised this specifically with New Zealand First at 8.15 on 22 May in a formal meeting with Fletcher Tabuteau where I formally met with him for the purpose of discussing their party's approval of loose-leaf cannabis in the medicinal cannabis scheme. I gave him all the documents from the Health Committee that it was appropriate to give him all the written questions that showed smoked loose-leaf was permissioned in the terminal exception and was highly likely to be permissioned in the following medicinal cannabis scheme. At the end of that meeting Clayton Mitchell came and indicated to Fletcher that he had a following meeting next door. Be in no doubt New Zealanders who are watching this and the Hansard records it: New Zealand First is supporting loose-leaf cannabis both in the terminal exception and as I've explained through to the medicinal cannabis scheme.The questions I then have for the Minister are these: again I reiterate patients who are started on smoked loose-leaf under the terminal exception who receive relief—will the full-blown medicinal cannabis scheme stop the smoking of loose-leaf cannabis for those patients? And the second related question: can the Minister promise that a full-blown medicinal cannabis scheme—and here's the pity of not knowing any framework or anything about that—will not have smoked loose-leaf? I think those are very important questions for New Zealanders that answer the question that member Swarbrick raised about decriminalisation or legalisation by stealth. This is a clear example of that legalisation of cannabis by stealth under the guise of medical need. Thank you Madam Chair."