Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 19 November 2013. Volume:695;Page:15063. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]2.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to theMinister of Finance: How much did the Government’s share sales in Mighty River Power Meridian and Air New Zealand raise given that theSupplement to the 2010 Investment Statement of the Government of New Zealand projected that those sales would raise $5.18 billion?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance) on behalf of theMinister of Finance: The potential proceeds the member quotes were based on estimated commercial values of the companies at that time. They were one of a number of estimates by the board and Treasury but they were not market valuations because of course there was no market on which to value the companies. There was only a market valuation for Air New Zealand because it was already listed on the sharemarket. The share programme has confirmed what the actual market values of these companies are. They take into account all sorts of factors including a proposal to nationalise the electricity sector using a model found in only one other country. So in answer to the member’s question the partial share sales have so far raised almost $4 billion for taxpayers.Dr Russel Norman: Given that the sales have so far raised almost $4 billion whereas they were valued at $5.2 billion is he satisfied with his performance as finance Minister given that he has lost $1.2 billion of public wealth with his failed asset sales programme?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I find it very hard to take from that member his criticism of the Government’s proceeds from the asset sales when he was doing his absolute level best through most of the year to scare investors away from the power companies of which there have been two that have been floated. You cannot sit there in the Greens and say you are working to sabotage the float and then turn round and say the value is not high enough.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked whether he was satisfied with his performance—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member not only asked that; he then effectively said that the Minister was responsible for the loss of the $1.2 billion. If the member wants a simple question answered I would advise him to ask that clear and simple question and then I can assist him. But in this case the Minister has addressed the question.Dr Russel Norman: Well does the Minister think he is in any position to lecture the Greens in this House on prudent economic management when not only—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Allow the member to finish his question.Dr Russel Norman: Does he think he is in any position to lecture the House on prudent economic management when not only did he lose $1.2 billion of taxpayer money on the asset sales so far but the assets sales process has cost more than a quarter of a billion dollars—money that went to brokers lawyers and admen when it should have gone to schools hospitals and good housing for New Zealand families?Mr SPEAKER: The Hon Steven Joyce—as far as there is ministerial responsibility.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I disagree completely with the two suppositions tacked on to the member’s question. I agree yes definitely with the member’s question and the Green Party proves the quality of the Government’s economic management every day.Dr Russel Norman: What does he say to the New Zealanders who believed his spin and believed the $8 million taxpayer-funded ad campaign and bought into these companies given that the value of the shares bought by retail investors has fallen by $150 million so far?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member needs to decide which line he is running here: either the shares have been sold to National’s greedy mates and they deserve everything that is coming to them or they have been sold to mum and dad investors who are losing out. The whole concept is ludicrous. He has actually been complaining that investors would sell them on for a quick buck. The reality is that most investors are still holding the shares and they have not lost any value because they have not sold them.Dr Russel Norman: What is his answer to the question raised today in theDominion Postby Vernon Small regarding the failed asset sales programme who said “Why did the Government ever waste so much effort on something so unpopular that would make so little difference to the economy?”Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I am happy to give a very clear answer to that question. The Government bothered for three reasons: first to get those companies on the sharemarket so they could be properly analysed and properly supervised by a market economy; two to give the opportunity for the market to grow and more opportunities for investors in shares in the New Zealand economy and the New Zealand sharemarket has been boosted through this process; and third to so far save the Government from borrowing $4 billion—$4 billion—that it would otherwise have had to borrow on the world stage. If the member thinks it is so wrong I invite him to go out and declare transparently as this Government did that the Greens would borrow $4 billion and buy the shares back.Dr Russel Norman: Is Brian Gaynor correct in theNew Zealand Heraldwhen arguing about the failed asset sale programme and the Government’s economic management he said: “Investors are now realising that there are huge risks associated with the current Administration because it doesn’t appear to have anyone at the helm steering a straight and consistent course as far as major business decisions are concerned.”?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No and if Mr Gaynor wanted to see a contrast between a Government that knows how to run an economy and one that does not then he should vote for the Greens at the next election and see what he could really wish for.Dr Russel Norman: Are the market rumours that are circulating at the moment true that the Government is going to back away from the Genesis sale given the complete failure of the asset sales programme so far or is National determined to sell the assets regardless?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Nobody takes the Greens seriously with their views on the share sales because they have a doctrinaire opposition to them. The reality is that the share sales have been a success. They have saved New Zealand taxpayers $3.9 billion that otherwise would have had to be borrowed on world markets and the Opposition members if they really have a conviction on this should get out there today and promise to buy the shares back.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a pretty direct question about—Mr SPEAKER: I invite the member to ask his question again.Dr Russel Norman: Are the market rumours true that the Government is going to back away from the Genesis sale given the failure of the asset sales programme so far or is National determined to proceed regardless?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I was disagreeing with the proposition contained in that speech from the member. The reality is that the Government does intend to proceed with the Genesis sale and does intend to raise more money so we do not have to borrowmore money on the world markets. The public will judge the quality of New Zealand’s management of debt and one of the things they will judge is the amount of income raised from these mixed-ownership model companies.