Andersen GinnyGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour): Everyone loves a refund—everyone loves a refund. It's a good thing. Why would you make it harder for somebody entitled to a refund to be able to receive that? I really don't know and we haven't heard any arguments tonight as to why that would be the case. I vividly remember how important it was to get a rates rebate. I remember my grandmother—God rest her soul—in Nelson dressing up in her Sunday best with her papers clutched under her arm marching down to the council chambers in order to get her rates rebate. That was important and that made a substantial contribution to the income for that household. And she wasn't alone. She wasn't alone because last year over 102000 New Zealanders applied for a rates rebate and that brought the average person who applied for a rates rebate $582.50. Now my question is: how much would that rise to how many more New Zealanders would have applied for a rates rebate and got another $582 in their pocket had this obstacle not been put in their way? Now my grandmother was able to get out the door and walk down the road and take her papers with her engage with the person behind the counter in order to sign her statutory declaration and receive her refund. But my question is: what if those things don't apply? What if there are barriers to being able to do that? It is a priority for this Government to ensure that all New Zealanders have access to a rebate on their rates. We are determined to remove any barriers for superannuitants or anyone else who has a disability that would prevent them from accessing the money that they are rightly entitled to. So what about the person that is not able to attend the council office? What if there is a barrier in that way? It takes time and it takes money.The other big issue in this space that hasn't been discussed tonight is that often in small communities particularly rural communities there's a lot of stigma attached to going and getting a rates rebate by having to go out and line up with others and fill it out whereas if this was available online as it already is with your GST return and your IRD return—you can do those online but for some reason National Party members don't believe that people who are getting a rates rebate are entitled to the same ability online—not quite sure why. But it removes that stigma of having to go and ask for a return of money if you are of a low income and that is important to accessing for people who need it to be able to receive that income return.The other point that would apply to those people in rural communities is how you get to the council office particularly if you're over 65. We know for a fact that there are quite a few people over 65 who are no longer able to drive their own car. So in those rural communities where there may not be regular public service transport systems operating this is a real barrier to stop people getting what they're rightly entitled to. If there are online services that would make that far more available for them to do it.The other point that's important here too is the issue around disability and we know for a fact that 79 percent of applicants to the scheme in 2017 and 2018 were superannuitants. But the 2013 Disability Survey found that 49 percent of those over 65 also had a physical disability and that's a real impediment to enabling people to receive money that they are rightly entitled to. Based on these figures we can assume that many applicants of this scheme may have a declining physical impairment or declining mobility and so that is really important to make sure that we are facilitating that. The requirement to be physically present also adds to the costs for travel whether that be public or even private. So considering the fact that these people are eligible for receiving a rates rebate for the very reason that they are of low income additional barriers are being presented for this.So what've we heard in terms of reasons tonight as to why you would deny a person entitled to a rates rebate from having the ability to do that online? I haven't heard one mention and this is typical of National Party. You'll talk about filibustering but this is an important right for human beings in New Zealand and it's important that they have access to that extra $580; $580 might not matter to the members opposite but there are people in my community where $580 in their pocket is a whole lot of money. It's a whole lot of money for grandchildren or extra shoes or extra things around the household and I'm prepared to stand up and argue for that.So when we think about why you would not be entitled to being able to decline the statutory declaration the only argument I've vaguely heard was the one raised around fraud: that there was going to be some sort of great downward slide into over-65 people defrauding the rates rebate system because they are no longer required to come in and make a statutory declaration. Well I really struggle to accept that as a valid argument and I would want to point out by looking at the problem definition objectives in terms of the RIS—regulatory impact statement—that in the 1973 bill in addition to it being made an offence to make a false declaration it is also an offence to provide a false statement to wilfully mislead anyone involved in the administration of the scheme—so that's already covered off—and to provide a false or misleading answer to any question. Therefore in the absence of any statutory declaration there are still sufficient measures in place to address fraudulent claims and to deter them.So the one argument that we've heard tonight as to why people should not be able to do this online simply has no grounding at all. If you're already moving to a digital age where we can have RealMe identities if we can do our tax returns if we can apply for a passport if we can do all these critical quite high-risk and also involving greater amounts of money—if we can do all of these things online why would we not be able to do something as they say so insignificant as a refund of $580 to people who are already on limited incomes? I think it's just mean. The only argument I can come up with is it's just petty mean-spiritedness to deny people this ability. To try and make out that it's a waste of time I think is actually quite insulting to New Zealanders who struggle to get by on a week-to-week basis.So in terms of the bigger issues that we need to be thinking about the issues that actually matter that I'm interested in that relate to this bill are the big questions around the digital divide because if we are saying that we want people to be able to access this additional refund we need to be also considering how people who are over 65 or those with disabilities are accessing the internet and making sure that they do have access in those areas and that's why it's so important that we have a digital strategy that takes into account all of those people who may be on lower incomes and providing good access to not only purchasing the equipment but knowing how to utilise it and that is just so important.Look I am proud to see a bill that's come forward and made it very clear to New Zealanders particularly those New Zealanders who really care about their rates rebate. It means a whole lot. This is a bill that will enable accessing what you are entitled to far easier and that is a good thing. Streamlining processes and making sure people know what they're entitled to and how they do it without unnecessary bureaucracy and red tape. We've heard time and time again the members opposite wanting to cut red tape and bureaucracy and making the system more streamlined. But funnily enough when it comes to people on lower income that argument's out the window.So I really do not understand what the problem is with this bill. When I have turned up in my area in Hutt South at debates around election time that are hosted by retirement villages the hot topic that we are always asked is about rates rebate. It is incredibly important and many people use it for such important things as buying their Christmas presents when they get that for grandchildren or for putting it aside for important purposes when you're on a limited income. So this is a bill that demonstrates this Government cares about people. This Government cares about people on lower incomes and we are prepared to make their lives better by accessing the funds that they are rightly due to. I am proud to commend the Rates Rebate (Statutory Declarations) Amendment Bill to the House.