Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:625;Page:20355] 
1. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Did she say the following: “If Winston Peters had the interests of New Zealand at heart rather than just grandstanding he would be providing information to Immigration so things could be checked out. That’s what all our electorate offices do week in week out where we see a problem we report it so it can be dealt with”; if so on what basis did she make this statement? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes on the basis that it is better to sort out such matters behind the scenes and not give ammunition to refugee status claimants. I do appreciate that Mr Peters has raised other cases with immigration Ministers in the past and has not always had reports back on them. I invite him to sit down with the Minister the Associate Minister or senior officials to go through those cases. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why does the Prime Minister admit that today when she knew it yesterday and can I give her a few examples of files—and these are just a sample I might add—that close with the words back from the Minister: “I will notify you of the outcome of this investigation.” dated July 2004 November 2004 November 2004 again December 2004 February 2005 April 2005 and again April 2005; why when she knows that her Minister has been advised as was his predecessor did she repeat that abject lie on TV? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member knows that he cannot accuse another member of being a liar. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I did not accuse her of being a liar. I said that she must have known—because she confirmed it in her primary answer—that the Minister had numerous communications with me and on not one occasion did I ever receive a reply. Yet she went on TV and repeated what Mr Swain said. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have taken offence to the statement that a lie was told and I ask for it to be withdrawn and apologised for. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please withdraw and apologise? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw and apologise. Can I repeat the question? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Can we now have the answer to the question? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. We cannot have an answer to the question when the Prime Minister has objected to it. Surely he should ask the question again. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: She objected to being called a liar. She did not object to the question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: That was the substance of the question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. Do you wish to repeat the question Mr Peters? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why did the Prime Minister make that statement yesterday on morning TV when she must have known of the countless occasions on which I have brought files of information to the attention of that Minister as well as to his predecessor; why did she then go and say that on national TV? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The statement stands because I can find no evidence that the member wrote to the Minister about the cases that he has put in the public arena in the last week. I might say that the lawyer for Mr Khashaly has pointed out that the fear of persecution by his client arises from the publication of Mr Khashaly’s name by Mr Peters. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given the track record of the Minister and his department of never replying why would any member of Parliament bother writing to them and why is she now repeating a statement by the lawyer that she knows is demonstrably false in that chronologically speaking the man was described in this Parliament although he was not named after he had been to Ahmed Zaoui’s lawyers to lodge a refugee application; if she knows that that story is not true why is she repeating it? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: What I have referred to continually is the chance of success of such applications being increased by names being put in the public arena. As to the issue of substantive replies I know that a number of substantive replies have gone to the member but there are other cases where he has not had them. I invite him to sit down with the Ministers and senior officials and to go through them. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Could the Prime Minister now outline the number of substantive replies I have received from that Minister? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: If the member wants that sort of detail he should ask the Minister. I have half a dozen substantive replies in front of me from the research that has been able to be done since the question was lodged this morning. I also know that there are a number of letters where there has not been a substantive reply at that time and there may be very good reason for that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If that is the case what is the very good reason that I have received no details whatsoever on the case of a successful refugee claimant such as Asha Ali Abdille who has a string of criminal convictions yet has attempted to bring 14 of her family members into this country; why have I not received a reply on that? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The fact that the member has not had a reply does not mean that no action has been taken. If the member wishes to discuss the matter with officials I have given him that invitation. 
Hon Paul Swain 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that following the claim on that particular issue an investigation was carried out and information was released but that action was not taken because issues around the severity of the prosecutions that had been made would not rule that person out as far as refugee status was concerned? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am happy to take the Minister’s word for it. 
Keith Locke 
: Can the Prime Minister recall the Government receiving any submissions from Mr Peters that are supportive of asylum seekers such as the one he has just referred to or have all his submissions tried to cast doubt about those asylum seekers even when they have been persecuted imprisoned or tortured in their home countries? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Without having had the time to go through all of them I suspect that most of them have the character of “dobbing in”. But I say to the House that it is important people do come forward with information if they feel that other people are trying to cheat the New Zealand authorities. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Very shortly—laugh now and cry later! They are nervous are they not? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the House settle please and let the member ask his question in silence. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Did the Prime Minister say: “I have been pushing Ministers of Immigration for the last 2 years to follow the Australian precedent and bring a lot of the offshore processing back to New Zealand. I think that would be much better.”; if she did should the conclusion not be that she is getting nowhere and neither are the Ministers getting anywhere so in that circumstance why would anyone on earth trust them with information? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: There would appear to be a number of non sequiturs in that question but suffice it to say that I think I have finally been heard on this subject. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Is the Prime Minister not aware that in some parts of Auckland there is a thriving market for doctored forged and falsified receipts as in the case of a man who has smuggled in bags of blank receipt forms from the Middle East which he sells to members of his community for false insurance claims in return for a cut from the payout? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am aware that in New Zealand there are people who are citizens permanent residents and would-be refugee status seekers and who try to cheat and lie to authorities. If the member has such information he should please make it available to the police. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has the Minister of Immigration appraised the Prime Minister of a complaint—on which I might add he has done nothing—involving 15 fraudulent documentation accesses to this country; and when is she going to take the security of this country seriously? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I do not ask for reports on each of the approximately 800 letters a year that the Minister gets and the 4000 that the Associate Minister gets. I say to the member that if he has evidence of wrongdoing he should come forward with it to the Ministers. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Would the Prime Minister not expect a Minister to raise the alarm with her when he learns of cases like that of one family whose whole documentation is false but that has got access to and is living in New Zealand and would she not expect the Minister of Immigration to say that that is not a one-off but shows a serious crisis; and should she as Prime Minister instead of giggling and laughing not do something about that? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: No I do not expect the Minister of Immigration to brief me on every such case. I might point out that last week Mr Peters was in the media on the subject of two people—out of 2.25 million visitors we get a year. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Prime Minister not concerned that even if one person was of enormous risk to this country that would be enough; and how many weeks does she want to keep this Parliament going while we up the averages in respect of her incompetence? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I do not know of any country Western or otherwise that has yet found an absolutely foolproof way of stopping people from trying to cheat its border control systems. If we have evidence we will act on it.