Dyson Ruth: General Debate 
Dyson Ruth: General Debate 
[Volume:629;Page:1808] 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour) 
: 
 It is really clear not just to me but to the majority of National Party members and to the country that Judith Collins not only got off her leash but she got off-message. She made a major tactical error and it is really interesting that Dr Brash backed that tactical error right from the start. When a party has no leadership and no policy— 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I am sitting here trying to listen to the speaker and Dr Cullen is issuing threats across the Chamber that are personal to me. He knows as a senior member that that is thoroughly against Standing Orders. One is not allowed to threaten another member in any way that might constrain his or her ability to speak in the House. I ask him to withdraw those threats. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I issued no threat against the member. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have to accept the member’s word. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: That is the National party—it has no leadership and no policy. When it is clear to National and to the rest of the country that there is no leadership and no policy then National members have to resort to personal attacks. That is the only time they are ever done and National is doing them well. 
New Zealanders will not put up with it. Our sense of fair play and decency is an intrinsic part of our culture. The robust nature of policy debate in this Parliament should play a big part in our culture as well. Parliament could and should be a place for ideas for challenges for serious disagreements and for debate—but for debate on policy and on the future of our nation. For goodness’ sake that is why we were elected to represent people in this House. It should not be a place for scraping the gutter and regurgitating its contents in the Chamber. 
The moves of Judith Collins Bill English and Don Brash over the last few weeks have chewed up the last of their political capital. For National’s leader to get sucked into this when he is struggling for his own political survival shows either desperation or a complete lack of judgment—perhaps both. Or perhaps he has fallen for what the  
Listener 
 describes as Judith Collins’ buttering up of the leader—not a pleasant thought. The  
Listener 
 quotes: “Privately some colleagues profess exasperation at what they say is Collins’s helium-filled ego her buttering-up of the leader and a tendency to go off-track when fronting important battles.” That is just what her friends and colleagues say. 
So what do her political idols say? Can I ensure that it is placed on the record in case anyone has any doubt that I have no points of policy agreement with either Ruth Richardson or Jenny Shipley but on this point I agree. Ruth Richardson consistently opposed any mud-slinging gutter politics. She said that a National Government would not engage in disgraceful personal attacks but that it would attack the real causes of the problems. Jenny Shipley also consistently maintained high personal standards. She made it very clear that she would not support personal attacks. I opposed both those women on every policy point I can recall but they made a significant contribution to this Parliament. They both left this Parliament with their heads held high because they had never breached their own high standards of personal behaviour. Judith Collins in contrast has not only breached standards but acknowledged in a Sunday paper that she thought she had gone too far then said that despite that she would carry on. 
I do not know what happened at National’s caucus meeting on Tuesday but clearly the leash was put on. But I do not think it will last long. In order to get out of the gutter members have to have thought about some policies. They have to have developed some policies that their caucus agrees on and that they can argue robustly in this House. There is no leadership in the National Party. There are no policies. 
I may have breached some of the integrity that I have on policy issues by referring to both Ruth Richardson and Jenny Shipley so I just compound the problem by saying that I have found a policy point of agreement with Richard Long. The headline to Richard Long’s article in yesterday’s  
Dominion Post  
stated: “Nats must cut Benson-Pope loose and get to the real issues”. He said that the electorate wants a concentration on the real issues. I think on that single point Richard Long was right. New Zealanders will not accept nor should they accept this Parliament becoming a place for the regurgitation of what is scraped out of the gutter by Judith Collins and her ilk. It is time for us to get back to the real issues.