1. Question No. 1—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Social Development and Employment1. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she think that families in receipt of a benefit are facing cost of living pressures currently exacerbating poverty?Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister for Māori Development) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: On behalf of the Minister we do agree that families on a benefit will be facing—SPEAKER: Order! Order! I just want to check: is the Minister not the Minister? I thought the Minister was the Acting Minister. Hon WILLIE JACKSON: No I'm not the Acting Minister. SPEAKER: You're not the Acting Minister? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: No. SPEAKER: Sorry I thought—Hon WILLIE JACKSON: But I'm on behalf of the Minister.SPEAKER: You're on behalf of the Acting Minister? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: On behalf of the—yeah. SPEAKER: OK thank you. Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Kia ora. So on behalf of the Minister we do agree that families on a benefit will be facing cost of living pressures. Like many families we knew when we came into Government that people on a benefit were experiencing hardship which is why we have prioritised them first through our Families Package and then through lifting main benefit rates to historical levels. Alongside this we have raised the abatement threshold increased dental grants and lifted Working for Families tax credits. A report released by Ministry of Social Development (MSD) shows our changes have led to around a 40 percent increase in after-housing cost incomes for those on a main benefit since 2018. We know beneficiaries do it tough which is why we have prioritised them. We are working with them and changing things and hopefully changing their lives. Ricardo Menéndez March: Is the fact that hardship grants for food are going up a sign that people on a main benefit are unable to meet the cost of living and that benefit increases under her Government haven't been enough? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: So the—Mr Speaker can I just ask what the question is?Hon Gerry Brownlee: Yes it's—oh I can give it for you if you like Willie.Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Oh thanks Gerry. So is the question—sorry can I just ask are you asking are they enough—is that what you're saying? Cost of living yeah—because I missed the—Ricardo Menéndez March: Can I repeat the question?SPEAKER: Yes. Ricardo Menéndez March: Thank you. Is the fact that hardship grants for food are going up a sign that people on a main benefit aren't able to meet the cost of living and that benefit increases under her Government haven't been enough?Hon Gerry Brownlee: The answer is Yes that's right." Hon WILLIE JACKSON: No no that's not right Gerry Brownlee. But on behalf of the Minister a report released by MSD on the weekend shows that our changes have led to a 40 percent increase in after-housing costs income for those on a main benefit after inflation. Providing support for those on a benefit goes beyond the welfare system. That's why we're addressing these pressures through half-price public transport free lunches in schools free period products in schools and more public housing. Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she think it is kind to exclude children living in poverty who are in benefit-receiving households from the cost of living payment? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I'm sorry look I just—can you repeat the question? I'm just finding it hard to hear. SPEAKER: And can I ask while he's doing it that Mr David Bennett turn his volume down? Thank you. Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she think it is kind to exclude children living in poverty who are in benefit-receiving households from the cost of living payment? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I hear the question; I respect the question and the member. It's not a matter of being kind because this Government has been more kind than any other Government in the last generation. As a Government we have made once-in-a-generation increases to incomes for those on a benefit. Our changes have led to around a 40 percent increase in after-housing costs income for those on a main benefit inflation-adjusted since 2018. Now as someone—unlike the Opposition—who has worked with many beneficiaries and I have tried to encourage them—Hon David Bennett: He's on fire. Hon WILLIE JACKSON: —none of them—many of them wouldn't know a beneficiary if they fell over one. But the reality is this—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. It was a straightforward question. It may be that some of the inane interjections deserved a response but I just want to say to the Minister that he is not doing much good by chasing the bait. [Interruption] Right. Bennett—out. Mr Bennett will leave the House. Hon David Bennett withdrew from the Chamber. Ricardo Menéndez March: Does the Minister expect to see a decrease in the value of hardship grants and debts to the Ministry of Social Development as a result of the recent benefit increases and if not—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Right who was that?Chris Penk: Sir we're just trying to establish the basis on which you kicked out Mr Bennett.SPEAKER: No but members don't need to call out loudly in order to do that while a question is occurring.Chris Penk: I'm just helping with your directional pathfinding sir.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Speaking to that Mr Speaker to the extent that somebody did call out it was probably me and I was establishing what had actually happened. But I do apologise if it was a bit noisy.SPEAKER: All right. Well I'm pretty surprised—Hon Member: Sorry.SPEAKER: OK. Well we've got three apologies now and that's probably enough. I'm surprised that any inquiry was necessary given the volume of the interjection—the out-of-order interjection. Ask the question again.Ricardo Menéndez March: Thank you Mr Speaker. Does the Minister expect to see a decrease in the value of hardship grants and debt to the Ministry of Social Development as a result of recent benefit increases and if not when will she take action so that benefits cover families' basic essentials without them needing to take on debt?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: In terms of debt as part of the welfare overhaul the Government has initiated a cross-Government debt to government work programme which is looking at reducing hardship and preventing debt from occurring. Steps have already been taken as part of the work—for example increasing access to dental grants so that people don't go into debt for high-cost dental needs and changes to legal aid including removing interest off debt increased eligibility thresholds and removing the legal aid user charge. This is an ongoing piece of work.Ricardo Menéndez March: Is it her Government's preference that families who receive benefits take up more debt with the Ministry of Social Development in order to pay for basics like food clothing and rent rather than get the cost of living payment?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Of course not. We want to work with these families and we are working at the coalface. I want just to reiterate what I was saying earlier which is that there is a lot of working going on at the community level and we're working in tandem with community providers right now and that's why I was going on about the beneficiaries. Some of us work at ground level with them and understand the pressures and the other side of it is that we're able to move them on into areas and into opportunities that they've never had before. This Government has provided more opportunities than most Governments—in fact all Governments—when you look at the types of programmes we've initiated: Mana in Mahi He Poutama Rangatahi Māori trade training and record apprenticeships. There are opportunities there for many of our beneficiaries and I have seen the encouragement that our providers are doing and we as Government MPs are also trying to give them some sort of support and plan going forward rather than just staying on the benefit.Ricardo Menéndez March: Is it her Government's goal that people do not need hardship grants in order to meet basic expenses and if so what actions will she take to ensure that people are able to meet all of their basic expenses off their main incomes?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: We have provided support for people as I've said earlier more so than any other Government in recent history. We've had a 40 percent increase in after-housing costs in terms of incomes for those on main benefits inflation-adjusted since 2018. Couples with children are $237 per week better off which rises to $268 in the winter months. We've lifted 66500 children out of poverty. A lot of this work has been underestimated and criticised by the Opposition. As well as that opportunities are continually made available for young people in terms of getting off benefits and working in tandem with many of our community providers."