3. Question No. 3—FinanceHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 3—Finance3. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with the opinion of Marama Davidson that tax is love"?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): That's not a phrase I am using. For me tax is what we all pay to ensure a fair society where we look after each other or in the words of Gerry Brownlee "tax is something that people contribute in order to have the sort of society that they live in."Hon Paul Goldsmith: So is—Hon Gerry Brownlee: Always go for the wise words.SPEAKER: We'll ignore that and we'll start again.Hon Paul Goldsmith: So is tax not love?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I've already said for me tax is what we all pay to make sure that there is a fair society where we look after each other.Hon Member: What is love?Hon Paul Goldsmith: And why does it do it to me? I don't know. [Interruption] Does he think that Kiwis would feel the love if the Government continues to take more money from their pockets?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think what New Zealanders feel is that this is a Government that's looking after them; in fact to coin a phrase "Love is all around."Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he anticipate that some New Zealanders will have to pay tax at higher rates or new taxes in the next three years if he remains Minister of Finance?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I am responsible as the Minister of Finance for this Government's policy and we've been very clear that we aren't increasing tax rates. In fact over the last three or four months we've done a number of things that have used the tax system to help put money back into the pockets of New Zealanders.David Seymour: Does the Minister believe that the next generation of taxpayers will love paying back the $140 billion of borrowing forecast at Budget time?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think all New Zealanders would recognise that when you're faced with a one-in-100-year shock to the New Zealand economy it's important that the hard work done by a number of Governments to put us in a position to be able to borrow money and to be able to use that to protect the lives and livelihoods of New Zealanders is the best thing to do.David Seymour: When does he forecast the Government will get back into surplus and start lovingly repaying the debt that he has borrowed?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Budget that we released in May indicated it would take us around about eight years to do that.Hon David Bennett: 80 years you mean.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Treasury will—eight years.Hon Scott Simpson: 80 years.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Eight years. Treasury will no doubt update their forecasts in the pre-election fiscal update.Hon Chris Hipkins: Would New Zealanders have to pay significantly higher taxes or experience significant cuts to public services in order to meet alternative debt reduction targets that are being proposed by some?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well absolutely. I mean the bottom line here is whatever we do whether it is spent money or whether we try to reduce debt that actually has to be paid for. I've seen a proposal to see us try to get back down to 30 percent net debt within a decade. That would require $80 billion worth of cuts. People who propose that need to explain where that's coming from.Hon Paul Goldsmith: So is it his view that it's always a simple choice between public sector cuts and higher taxes?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Absolutely not. And in fact as this Government has shown we've managed to keep tax rates relatively stable after we got rid of the unfair tax cuts that the National Party had proposed and we'd managed to spend more money on public services. We can walk and chew gum Mr Goldsmith.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Will he rule out introducing newer higher thresholds for income tax in the next three years if he remains Minister of Finance?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I thank the member for his confidence in the re-election of this side of the House into Government. I am responsible for the tax policy of this Government."