9. Question No. 9—Local GovernmentSIMON WATTS (National—North Shore) to the Minister of Local GovernmentQuestion No. 9—Local Government9. SIMON WATTS (National—North Shore) to the Minister of Local Government: What has been the total departmental expenditure to date on Three Waters and is he confident it has represented good value for money?Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government): Our Government is setting up water services to make the $180 billion investment that is required to maintain and improve our infrastructure. This is to protect households from otherwise unaffordable costs. The reforms have been under way in earnest since 2020 and as of mid-March I have been advised the total departmental expenditure was just over $94 million. To the second part of the question yes because what's not good value for money is maintaining a status quo that no local authority wants or can sustain; what's not good value for money is leaving rural and provincial districts out in the cold like what would happen under National's proposal; and what's not good value for money is leaving Kiwi households to face water bills that each year climb further beyond their means.Simon Watts: How can he stand by that answer when as of December 2022 $57 million has been spent on consultants and contractors for three waters including over 100 consultants filling day-to-day positions like personal assistants and data administrators?Hon KIERAN McANULTY: Noting that I have written to the CEO of the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) outlining this Government's expectation that consultants and contractors are used at a minimum this Government does make no excuses for tackling the issues that this country faces. This country has to find $180 billion. New Zealanders have a clear choice: a policy from this Government that will save them rates over many many years or putting their head in the sand and ignoring the issue doesn't exist like what the National Party have done for five years.Simon Watts: Can he explain to the House what value was derived from the $646 per hour paid to a Grant Thornton consultant?Hon KIERAN McANULTY: It's very clear that when there is reform under way certain skills that aren't already in the department are required. It is quite clear looking across the House that experts in water services are few and far between. The point here is that this Government is investing in a system that will save ratepayers money. If the National Party dispute that I have a very clear request of them: show us their numbers—so far they haven't.Simon Watts: How does he justify DIA paying $133 per hour to contract a job description writer and does he believe that that provided more or less value to the taxpayer than the position description specialist who was paid $134 per hour?Hon KIERAN McANULTY: The value of this proposition is that it will lead to ratepayers paying less. That is a fact. It is a fact that has been established from councils' own numbers. It is a fact that has been reviewed by Water Industry Commission for Scotland and peer reviewed twice. The National Party can try and pick at the margins but what they have failed to show New Zealanders is what their plan is and how that will save ratepayers rates. They haven't done that because they can't.