5. Wage Rates—Wage Gap between Australia and New ZealandGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central) to the Minister of FinanceWage Rates—Wage Gap between Australia and New Zealand5. GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central) to the Minister of Finance: Is it still a fundamental purpose" of his Government to close the wage gap with Australia; if so has the gap got smaller or larger since his Government came to office in 2008?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Finance): Yes it is an important measure for this Government to improve the after-tax take-home pay of New Zealand families including relative to Australia. Since the end of 2008 take-home pay in New Zealand has grown twice as fast as in Australia thanks to wage increases lower inflation and tax reductions. We will continue to ensure hard-working Kiwi families can get ahead and receive the help they need to raise their children or save for a home.Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is a question on notice; it has two parts to it. The second part asked very simply whether the gap had got smaller or larger. Mr Joyce spoke about what happened in New Zealand but he did not do the comparison that the question asks for.Mr SPEAKER: I thought the Minister responded by saying that the after-tax take-home pay had increased.Grant Robertson: In New Zealand.Mr SPEAKER: I accept the point the member is making. The Minister has addressed what has happened in New Zealand but the question is how that compares with Australia. I will invite the Minister to complete his answer.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: If I could repeat I have said to the member that since the end of 2008 take-home pay in New Zealand has grown twice as fast as in Australia thanks to wage increases lower inflation and tax cuts.Grant Robertson: Can he then confirm that the gap in gross average weekly earnings between New Zealand and Australia has grown by $62.64 per week—Rt Hon Winston Peters: How much?Grant Robertson: —$62.64 per week—from when his Government came into office to the end of December last year?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No I cannot do that. If you compare the OECD data between the Australian and New Zealand average wages in 2008 versus 2015 which is the latest data available it shows we have reduced the after-tax wage gap with Australia by 6 percent in New Zealand dollar terms. The gap is still too large but it is heading in the right direction.Grant Robertson: I seek leave to table a table provided by the Parliamentary Library comparing New Zealand gross average weekly earnings with Australia between 2008 and 2016 showing a $62.64 increase.Mr SPEAKER: The paper has been well and truly described. In light of the answer I will put the leave for the House to decide. Leave is sought to table that information. Is there any objection? There is none; it can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Grant Robertson: Does he recall former Prime Minister John Key in 2010 using exactly the calculation that I have just tabled—gross earnings on a purchasing power parity basis—and is he saying that John Key was wrong to use that measure?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The measure that I have used is an after-tax measure which most people would consider as the most—Grant Robertson: Why did John Key use that measure?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well you would have to ask Mr Key who was in Parliament at that time. But the gap that I have shown to the member is the after-tax gap which also takes into account the movement in the exchange rates between the two countries. But do not listen to me Mr Robertson. Listen to the New Zealanders and the Australians who are moving to New Zealand for work instead of moving to Australia. They are probably the best and smartest people in this regard. In 2008 New Zealand lost a net 35400 people to Australia. In the year to February this year we gained a net 1000 people. They are voting with their feet.Grant Robertson: So is the Minister saying that the only reason he was ever interested in closing the gap between Australian and New Zealand wages was migration and that he does not actually care that New Zealanders are working harder than ever but not seeing the benefits of it in their wages?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member is just wrong. He is just fundamentally statistically wrong. If he goes and has a look at the OECD data and converts the wages in Australia and New Zealand to New Zealand dollars in 2008 and 2015 he will see that the gap has reduced by 6 percent. On top of that if he then adds a look at the employment rate between New Zealand and Australia he will see that in New Zealand nearly 67 percent of adults are employed and in Australia it is only 60.8 percent. So the gap is closing more people are actually in work in New Zealand than in Australia and therefore more people are coming to live in New Zealand rather than the other way around. But he would be mistaken to think that the last part is the cause; it is the response to the improvement.Grant Robertson: So in 2010 when John Key stood in this House and proclaimed that the wage gap between Australia and New Zealand was getting smaller using exactly the same gross average wage data that I am using today is the Minister saying that he was wrong? And why does he not just admit that the gap has got bigger under his watch by more than 60 bucks a week?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well I appreciate the member has probably spent the whole of the last 10 days with this calculator trying to work this out but he can stats parse all he likes. I have checked the data and in after-tax terms New Zealand—Hon Trevor Mallard: Stop proving you're an idiot.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: —and Australia in terms of New Zealand dollars—and I am sorry Mr Mallard you would have to go and have a look at the data too. The simple reality of it is—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I need somewhat less interjection from my left and from my right."