Brown Peter: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brown Peter: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:625;Page:20230] 
8.  
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister for ACC 
: Does she stand by her answer to written question No. 5163 (2005) as it applies to physiotherapists that ACC’s fraud unit is undertaking a survey of all treatment providers who invoice ACC on an hourly basis and that the New Zealand Society of Physiotherapists endorsed the audit protocols? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister for ACC 
: In respect of the first part of the question yes. In respect of the second part no. 
Peter Brown 
: Is the Minister aware that many physiotherapists who have been surveyed by the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) fraud squad do charge ACC on a per-patient basis not on an hourly basis and that the New Zealand Society of Physiotherapists has not agreed to any audit protocols—in other words is the Minister aware that the written answer she gave me is not worth the paper it is written on; and if that is true what is the Government going to do about it? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: To answer the last part first I will do exactly what I did just now which is to say that the first part of the question was answered correctly. In relation to the second part the Minister was advised that the society had endorsed the audit protocols. In fact what happened was that the society was involved in discussions around them and wrote to the corporation. But in general the society considers the protocol to be thoroughly and clearly— 
Peter Brown 
: So half-right is OK is it? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: In general the society considers the protocol to be thorough and clearly presented. That of course does not amount to a specific endorsement. 
Peter Brown 
: Is the Minister concerned that physiotherapists being surveyed by the ACC fraud squad are in the main being told that it is a random audit—which it is not—and that they are being interrogated rather than being interviewed and is she aware that several have just been cleared already in recent months by a more orthodox random audit; and if the Minister is concerned about that what will be done about it? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Certainly the interviews are based on targeted selection by billing patterns. ACC has taken steps to try to ensure that when people are being approached about this they are told that these are regular audit processes and that it is not being implied necessarily that any fraud has occurred. 
Peter Brown 
: Is the Minister concerned that some very significant and distinguished physiotherapists and I am talking about physiotherapists who have been physios to the All Blacks and people like them are highly brassed off—and that is a polite term I might add—with the attitude of ACC that they have not been consulted and indeed never have been; that the accreditation standards are flawed if they exist; and that the cost of accreditation for a physio with a practice certificate in New Zealand is somewhere between $20000 and $30000 and the process takes 18 months whilst in Australia it costs $500 and takes a matter of weeks; and if she is concerned—[ 
Interruption 
] well the Minister answering might take it lightly—will she insist that ACC sits down and has meaningful discussions with those physios in order to address the issues? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I think that the member is complaining that ACC is having too meaningful a discussion with some of the physiotherapists. He needs to remind himself that the corporation is in charge of a large amount of money that has been extracted from people in businesses in New Zealand and it needs to ensure that it is getting value for that money. I am quite sure that if any physiotherapist were discovered by the leader of New Zealand First to be committing fraud particularly if he or she was a non - New Zealand - born physiotherapist he would be the first person in this House to complain that we should never have allowed the person into the country in the first place. 
Peter Brown 
: Is it not the truth that the Government wants all physiotherapists to sign up to the flawed and unfair endorsed provider networkscheme and has given instructions to ACC to adopt bully-boy Gestapo-like tactics to ensure that that is so? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No.