Hutchison Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hutchison Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:423;Page:18538] 
9.  
Dr PAUL HUTCHISON (National—Port Waikato) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Have there been any recent announcements of primary health organisations collapsing and public money being squandered; if so where? 
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health) 
: 
 Since the commencement of primary health organisations in 2002 two primary health organisations have ceased operation. In 2003 Counties Manukau District Health Board ended its contract with Middlemore Primary Health Organisation. All outstanding funds were returned to the district health board. On 20 January this year the primary health organisation contract between Te Kupenga a Kahu Trust and Lakes District Health Board was terminated following notification that the primary health organisation was insolvent. I am advised by the chief executive officer of the district health board that there have never been any accusations of squandering public money. There is a debt to the district health board of $102000. The debt is against the trust. The trust has been advised by the district health board lawyers that it retains the right to recover the money from the trust including exercising any remedies that may be available to it whether pursuant to the primary health organisation agreement or otherwise in law. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Has the Minister taken any action to improve accountability for primary health organisation funding given that her system allowed Te Kupenga a Kahu Trust to siphon $102000 into administration that was dedicated for improving access to health services; if not why not? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: Yes the Ministry of Health is watching very carefully the use of money in primary health organisations. I have to say that it is a much better system than the old independent practice association system whereby some independent practice associations were given money by the Government. One independent practice association in particular received over $20 million of Government money that was unable to be brought back to the Government or spent by the Government because there was no contractual obligation for it to be returned to the Government—the independent practice association has it to this day. 
Steve Chadwick 
: Have any patients been affected by the closure of that primary health organisation? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I am advised by the chief executive officer of the district health board that the primary health organisation was made up of three providers two of which were general practitioner providers. The largest practice now has an arrangement with the Rotorua primary health organisation the second practice has been given a section 88 notice and the third had no general practitioner service at all. No patients have been affected and the people in the community continue to get their general practitioner service. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Did the Minister or the member for Rotorua influence the establishment of Te Kupenga a Kahu Trust primary health organisation to ensure its approval in circumstances when the Lakes District Health Board had reservations about its formation? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I had no influence in the establishment of a primary health organisation in Rotorua. I cannot speak for the member—she can speak for herself. However I do know that the district health board took responsibility for the establishment of that primary health organisation. 
Hon Bill English 
: Who pushed it? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is about the comment made by Bill English who said: “You pushed them.” That is totally incorrect. I ask him to withdraw and apologise. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Did the member make that comment? The member said that he did not. I have to accept his word. 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The member is not telling the truth. He did say that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is out of order and the member knows it. Because the member is the Minister answering a question she will stand withdraw and apologise. 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I withdraw and apologise. I did not influence that primary health organisation’s establishment in any way at all. In fact until it was established I had no knowledge of it. Any member of this House who accuses me of that is totally incorrect. The district health board made the decision on which primary health organisation would be established in its area as every district health board does. 
Steve Chadwick 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I will clarify as I was named— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member can seek leave to make a personal explanation in relation to this matter. 
Steve Chadwick 
: I seek leave to make a personal explanation. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can you leave it until after question time? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It can be after question time. There is objection. 
Heather Roy 
: Can the Minister deny that under her primary health organisations doctors’ visits for 18 to 65-year-olds enrolled in interim primary health organisations cost on average over $55 a huge increase since she became the Minister; if not what is the average charge for that group of patients? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: To date the Government has not put in any additional funding for those people aged between 18 and 64 so doctors may charge whatever they like but there are those in that age group who have community services cards and they are entitled to cheaper fees. However good news is on the way. This Government intends to fund all New Zealanders in order that they can access more affordable primary health care and I know that that is supported by most New Zealanders. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Why does HealthPAC fund services before they have been delivered and even before they have been defined; and is that not a case of lack of accountability? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: Is it not interesting that in this House HealthPAC has been accused of not funding services soon enough. If the member has a particular issue he wishes to raise he should write it down and we will look at it. However I recall a question in this House asking why HealthPAC was so slow. It does a very good job. It provides funding to thousands of providers around New Zealand. If the member has a particular case he should tell us what it is. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked a very specific question that I believe the Minister did not answer. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the Minister addressed the question. Did Steve Chadwick have a point of order at this stage? She may ask for leave again. 
Steve Chadwick 
: I seek leave to make a personal explanation. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is in relation to the comment earlier in a supplementary question. Is there any objection? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Yes it should be at the end of question time. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: This is the end of this question. There is objection. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: I seek leave to table two articles. One is an article from  
New Zealand Doctor 
 that highlights the failure of the Government to manage the smaller primary health organisations. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that article. Is there any objection? There is. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Secondly I seek leave to table a press release from the Lakes District Health Board that states to paraphrase that the Lakes District Health Board had always wanted a collaborative primary health organisation but that Te Kupenga a Kahu Trust had an unswerving desire to put out on its own. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that press release. Is there any objection? There is.