Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:657;Page:6322] 
3.  
Hon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his statement that “if you can get to the point where it’s settled between the two major parties then that can give a sense of security and predictability for the business community and consumers?”. 
Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: If certainty and predictability are important can the Prime Minister tell the House what the Treasury estimates are of the extra billions of dollars in costs that will be imposed on New Zealanders and their families as taxpayers by subsidies being extended and the period of time that heavy emitters are subsidised by the taxpayer? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: I do not have the Treasury costings to hand but I can say that the National Government’s scheme which is supported by United Future and the Maori Party will impose half the cost on New Zealand consumers and will keep New Zealanders in work—something we on this side of the House care about. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Is the Prime Minister seriously telling the House that he has made a major announcement and he does not know from Treasury the additional costs that will be incurred by that announcement? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: No I am saying that I do not have the costs to hand. I really do not understand why the member is getting so agitated. I have been reliably informed that the cost of our— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: —emissions trading scheme— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It was not the Hon Prime Minister I was calling to order. Now that I have interrupted though I will ask the Hon Trevor Mallard to stand withdraw and apologise for the allegation he made across the House. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Why has the Prime Minister estimated that the emissions trading scheme will impose an extra cost of $400 million on the taxpayer in the first 3 years basing that figure on a carbon cost of $25 per tonne when he knows that as a result of the Copenhagen discussions the cost will probably be twice that level and could well be four times that level adding up to a cost for the New Zealand taxpayer potentially as high as $1.6 billion in the first 3 years? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: Because I believe the figure to be correct. Let us assume for a moment that the Leader of the Opposition is correct. What he is saying therefore is that he wants consumers in New Zealand to face an increase in the price of petrol of 14c a litre and that he wants New Zealanders to have a 40 percent increase in their electricity costs. Funnily enough at the weekend he was saying he cared about the Kiwi battler. That is a funny way of showing his love for them. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Why is the Prime Minister pretending that the average New Zealander will be better off when he has brought forward the increased price in petrol and when average New Zealand taxpayers will literally be paying thousands of dollars more in their taxes to subsidise heavy emitters? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: Firstly because they will not. Secondly because unlike the Labour Party we actually care whether New Zealand businesses stay here we care whether New Zealanders are employed and we care whether New Zealanders get a fair deal. Frankly I cannot see why the Leader of the Opposition is so concerned about our emissions trading scheme. I am reliably informed that running a Triumph 850 will cost half what it would have cost under the Labour scheme. That is something the member should be happy about. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Why has the Prime Minister made changes that take the costs off the heavy emitters thereby reducing the incentive for them to cut their pollution and place the costs on ordinary New Zealand families through their taxes? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: As I call the honourable Prime Minister I ask members at the back of the Chamber to cut the ridiculous noise being made. 
Hon Members 
: Hear hear! 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There will be no comment on my request thank you. 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: Because as the Minister for Climate Change Issues pointed out just a few moments ago climate change is a global problem. The Leader of the Opposition might think it makes sense to close down Comalco New Zealand Steel and a number of other major New Zealand companies and to have them be established in some other part of the world but on this side of the House we do not. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: How is the Prime Minister’s proposed emissions trading scheme consistent with his objective of balancing environmental and economic needs when it will increase pollution by reducing incentives to cut emissions and will place on Kiwi taxpayers billions of dollars in extra costs by subsidising heavy emitters over a much longer period of time—40 years? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: Firstly the Leader of the Opposition might think it is a good idea for New Zealand to be put at such a tremendous economic disadvantage to Australia—and that is why we are in the economic mess we are in—but on this side of the House we do not. On this side of the House we are interested in developing jobs making sure that Kiwis are employed and making sure that our scheme is affordable. With our scheme by 2015 it will have “all markets all gases” at a price that is affordable to New Zealanders. That is why the scheme has been so well received by Kiwis right up and down the country.