Hughes Darren: Taxation (Annual Rates and Urgent Measures) Bill — In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Taxation (Annual Rates and Urgent Measures) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:628;Page:772] 
DARREN HUGHES (Labour—Otaki) 
: 
 Unless one is a student and a scholar of ancient political history one would not know that that was Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith. From the way he was describing Part 3 he had never been in a Government before. He used words like “breathtaking promise” a “con job” and said that people had to remember what had been promised. 
 I wondered whether that could be the same man who went up and down New Zealand to different university campuses signing pledges promising that if student fees were not abolished he would resign. “Honest Lockwood Smith” went up and down the country a decade and a half ago saying that. We have the documentation which has been tabled in the Parliament of New Zealand showing that Lockwood Smith went around the place— 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I am not allowed to say that member is lying. I have through previous points of order and a personal explanation explained to people like Darren Hughes who do not know the facts and the truth that the only pledges I signed promised to abolish Labour’s Government-imposed $1250 student fee. I never ever signed a pledge that there would be no fees. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: That is a debating point and the member can take a call. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. When a member makes a personal explanation as I have in the past about that issue it is no longer a debating point. The Committee must take my word for it and I can prove it because I have copies of those pledges. It is not a debating point. I would appreciate your correcting that ruling. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member has taken exception under Standing Order 116 “Personal reflections”. The member will withdraw and apologise. 
DARREN HUGHES 
: I am happy to withdraw. What we now know is that Lockwood Smith went around the country talking to angry crowds of students saying: “I will abolish Labour’s tertiary fee of $1250. That’s the good news; the bad news is that I’ve got a $3000 Tory fee on the way. I’m ‘Honest Lockwood Smith’. I’ll resign unless I can make sure your fees are more than $1200.” What a farce! 
The last National Party member who should have been allowed on his feet in this debate this afternoon is a relic from the 1990s like Lockwood Smith. Most Ministers of Education in New Zealand visit campuses; that is part of the job. That man when he arrives on a campus has police protection. When he leaves he does not leave by the door—oh no he is far too important. He leaves by the bathroom window! So loved were his policies so respected was his integrity so visionary was his approach to the student loan scheme that he left via a toilet window. So we will not hear any more from Lockwood Smith. I want the National Party to continue to— 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. That junior Labour member should know that a member cannot tell lies to this Parliament. What he is telling the Parliament are simply lies. I have never ever left a university campus by the bathroom window or any other window. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Can I just point the member—[ 
Interruption 
] Members know that when a point of order is on the floor there is to be no sound whatsoever. That is disorderly conduct. I refer the member to Speaker’s ruling 127/4: “As long as the member who made a personal statement remains a member of the House the member’s personal explanation may not be debated or otherwise challenged even where it was given in a previous Parliament.”—Mr Speaker Hunt 2000. 
DARREN HUGHES 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Does that mean that the member has made a personal explanation about what type of window he did climb out when he was being harassed? 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No— 
DARREN HUGHES 
: I am seeking clarification. Footage on the television news showed that former Minister of Education having to climb out a window away from students whom he could not explain his policies to. [ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member will not trifle with the Chair. 
DARREN HUGHES 
: This policy is a fantastic policy. Part 3 is good Labour policy and I am delighted the National Party keeps opposing it. I was very interested to hear Katherine Rich confess that she thought the Labour Party might have clinched the election on the basis of that policy. The bitterness in her voice was clear because as one of the National Party’s centrists she knows that this is a good policy. The problem for National members is that they are obsessed about the transitional provisions obsessed about what might happen between now and April. The point they keep missing is that all that this policy says is that students have to pay back what they borrow from the Crown. Rather than paying that back with interest we are asking students simply to pay back their student loans—the amount they borrowed. 
But National members are saying that students will refuse to pay it back. What they do not know because so few of them had student loans is that people repay the loan via the Inland Revenue Department system through PAYE whereby 10 percent of every dollar earned over a certain amount is deducted from source. There is no choice in this; it is part of one’s taxation requirements. Therefore when people apply for things like a mortgage hire purchase or to buy a new car and they have to list all their debts they have to include their student loan. So that has an impact on their ability to borrow in the market place which supposedly is an area the National Party knows a lot about. So it is in a student’s interest to retire that debt as quickly as possible and the fastest way to do that is to pay back only the amount borrowed. 
This is good sensible Labour policy and I hope National keeps opposing it. National is going down the drain.