Upston LouiseHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō): Kia orana Madam Chair. I'm pleased to stand in this Estimates debate and particularly focus my time on social development. This of course is $25 billion a year that taxpayers put into social development; so it is worthy of a lengthy debate in this Chamber. One of the things that was concerning right from the get-go was a Minister that climbed straight into a defensive position about not wishing to reduce the number of people on benefits—and as we've seen in the quarter to 30 June actually the number in every one except one category of benefits has increased. I would have thought a Minister responsible for $25 billion worth of taxpayer spending would have had an interest or at least a passing glance at knowing what those numbers were. The Minister was unable to answer simple questions around for example the significant increase in the young parent payment.But I want to just look at some of the figures in particular around for example jobseeker support. So in a situation where the Government's inherited a very strong economy with low unemployment—we've seen unemployment fall even further in more recent times—to then have an increase in the number of people on the jobseeker benefit is somewhat concerning. At the same time the Minister made lengthy observations as reported in the Estimates report back to this House around the effort to deliberately reduce the number of obligations that are placed on people who are seeking work. One of the examples that the Minister referred to was around sanctions and unfortunately a lot of people misunderstand the whole discussion around sanctions. Sanctions are a number of obligations that are placed on those who are seeking employment through the jobseeker support—mutual obligations which really are a social contract. So if taxpayers are supporting you there are a few obligations: being available for appointments turning up for interviews taking on work that's available and where required being drug-free.The Minister talked at length not just about the intention to remove sanctions but not to apply them. We've recently had a 23 percent reduction in the number of sanctions being applied—you know that's more than one in five; it's nearly one in four that the Minister has then put down to mistakes errors by front-line staff. I have to say I've not seen a Minister appear before a select committee in that way and be quite so critical of front-line staff. It was surprising and concerning to see that the Minister wasn't supporting the many thousands of front-line staff who go to work each and every day to what this side of the Chamber believes is to ensure that each and every New Zealander achieves their potential. And yes they experience times of hardship and taxpayers are more than willing to support people in their times of need.It's interesting to see that the Minister also spoke at length about the intention for this big welfare working group review but actually provided very little detail around the scope of that work which was also interesting given that having been in Opposition for nine years there was a long opportunity lengthy periods of time to work out some of the policies that the Minister was then going to deliver. Of course the Minister I'm referring to—just for those who are watching in the House—isn't the Minister that's currently in the chair. I'm referring of course to the Minister for Social Development the Hon Carmel Sepuloni.There were a number of areas that the discussion focused on. Part of that was ensuring people got their full entitlement and yet half a billion dollars that's been identified as not being claimed isn't in the Budget. So this is a Minister who's responsible for one of the largest areas of spending of taxpayers' money has accepted there's half a billion dollars in entitlements that aren't being claimed and yet hasn't allowed for it in the Budget documents. We raised that with the Auditor-General; that's clearly a liability for the Crown that hasn't been included anywhere.Speaking of liabilities one of the areas that was deeply deeply concerning was the acceptance that there were 10000 people on the social housing register and a real lack of understanding that for some people they are so unable to access support through Work and Income that they can't even get on the social housing register. It was very disappointing to see a Minister not even have a simple grasp of those people that are very hard to access and no plan for accessing them. In fact initiatives that are showing progress like the place-based initiatives which are social investment on the ground really changing lives in terms of making it easier for those who need our support the most to access the services—actually no plan for the long-term deployment of things that really make a difference.So platitudes around intensive wrap-around support—which of course were initiatives that came from the previous Government—and a pure lack of understanding about those that need it most. It was echoed by the Minister of Housing and Urban Development who actually didn't care at all about the fact that there are large parts of this country who aren't being supported by the $100 million that supposedly is being put in to social housing and is quite comfortable with the fact that people in places like Tokerau Taupō and Tūrangi that have high needs won't get access to it. Although he's promised on multiple occasions that no one needs to live in a car this winter I can give him multiple examples. We discussed it in the select committee in the Estimates hearing and the Minister clearly was not interested in providing support providing solutions or coming up with dollars even though they're a Government that's awash with cash.So it was a bit conflicting a bit disappointing in terms of Vote Social Development to not have a Minister that was across the detail of her portfolio that was bagging her staff and really doesn't believe in the potential of New Zealanders who want to get ahead who want to fulfil their potential and understand that the space of obligations is about being able to ensure that people who are receiving support from other taxpayers understand that they have obligations and understand there are opportunities for them to pursue those areas.Social investment was an area that was also in the Estimates and I think there are some areas that the Minister realised there was clear agreement. In fact she actually said that one of the challenges has been that a lot of people misunderstood—and I think probably early on her as well—what social investment was all about. At the heart of it social investment is about changing lives. It's about how to ensure through clear targeting through clear use of data and information the ability to absolutely focus and hone taxpayer support to those who need it most. And many of those are people who don't access the online website who don't look at the website to see what their entitlements are.We had quite a great discussion about what you have to do as a superannuitant to make sure that your information is correct and to make sure that you are getting the right amount for your superannuation. It was really interesting to note that we had a lengthy discussion around the forms. The forms have been improved in recent years to make sure that people accurately completed their form and to make sure that they were getting the right amount for their superannuation. Unfortunately we've had numerous examples of people who haven't; who've been overpaid. We did go through it in quite a lot of detail just to make sure that the process was simple and that it was easy. We reviewed the form there in person.So the Minister for Social Development has said that she's committed to ensuring that more people get what they're entitled to and yet on the books hasn't accounted for it and also hasn't accounted for how to collect from those who've been overpaid and to ensure that those sorts of inaccuracies are picked up earlier because obviously taxpayers are fair-minded want to support those who have times of need but also want to make sure they fulfil their obligations.