Locke Keith: Prisoners' and Victims' Claims Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Locke Keith: Prisoners' and Victims' Claims Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:626;Page:20939] 
KEITH LOCKE (Green) 
: 
 I rise on behalf of the Green Party to explain why we will be voting for this bill. I think at the heart of it is that we support human rights. That seems to be a concern to some of the other members here but we support everyone’s human rights. We support the human rights of members of Parliament prisoners’ human rights and victims’ human rights. We are obliged to do that as the last speaker has indicated by international conventions such as the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment which he has just mentioned and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights which Edwin Perry mentioned and the other conventions that require us to give redress for harm done by the State to any citizen including people in prisons. This redress does not have an exclusion. There is nothing in these international conventions that states: “and not financial redress”. That is part of it. 
One of the things about a person in prison is that the forms of redress are somewhat limited by virtue of the fact that the person is in prison. We could let them out. 
Marc Alexander 
: They are supposed to be there. 
KEITH LOCKE 
: I think Mr Alexander who has interjected might be a bit upset if that were a form of redress. One of the other ways is to give them financial redress which is not actually a lot of use to a person in jail but it does go some way to accommodating the mistreatment. We do see problems in this bill in that under the provisions in some cases the whole of the compensation could disappear as a result of a claim and that could be a disincentive for prisoners taking claims for mistreatment. It is not just a problem for the prisoner whose human rights we should identify with. If we want to have a disincentive for the State persecuting any citizen including those in prisons we have to have a penalty on the State. That is part of the justice system in New Zealand and internationally. 
I object to the idea expressed I think by Edwin Perry that when people go to jail they lose all their human rights. He quoted a friend of his who said that. To not identify with a human being when he or she is being mistreated to treat that person as some sort of beyond-the-pale person we cannot identify with in any way is exactly the psychology of the offender. The people who brutally killed those two old people the other day presumably were thinking that way—“We don’t identify with that old man and woman. They are not human beings. We can kill them.” That is the psychology of the offender and unfortunately that is the psychology I hear around me in this Chamber tonight from the people who are interjecting. They are being as bad in some ways as those violent criminals. 
The other concept of justice that the Greens promote—restorative justice—is the opposite. It sees both the offender and the victim as human beings and tries to get them to see each other as human beings. It also tries to get the prisoner to show genuine remorse and thereby rehabilitate himself or herself and be less likely to commit more crimes. If we are really concerned with victims we have to stop the rates of reoffending—stop people committing more crimes. We are supporting this bill not because it is a good bill; we think it is a bad bill. But if United Future had had its way it would be a terrible bill. It would not have had a sunset clause. When I say it is a bad bill I say though that it does have some good features that Nandor Tanczos will be talking about later in terms of some benefits for victims. People are saying that Victim Support is against this bill. I was on the select committee when Victim Support came and said that it was totally against this bill. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I will take a United Future speaker because United Future has over 30 amendments and I think we should hear from the United Future members. 
Peter Brown 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. By my reckoning this will be the third speech from a United Future member. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: You are exactly right. 
Peter Brown 
: There have been three New Zealand First speakers and we are a much bigger party than United Future. Come the next election we are going to be even bigger. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: New Zealand First is indeed a bigger party. I am conscious of that but I call Mr Adams.