Salesa Jenny; O'Connor Greg; Cameron Mark; Lee Melissa; Kuriger Barbara; McAnulty KieranASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I declare the House in committee for consideration of the bill. This bill is set down for committee stage immediately.In CommitteePart 1 Amendments to Water Services Entities Act 2022CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Members the House is in committee for the Water Services Legislation Bill. We come first to the debate on Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 3 to 25 and Schedules 1 and 2 Amendments to Water Services Entities Act 2022". Members should note that Part 1 inserts new parts into the Water Services Entities Act 2022 and these are included in the debate on Part 1. Clause 21C inserts new Part 5A and clause 22 replaces Part 6 with new Part 6 and inserts new Parts 7 to 13. The question is that Part 1 stand part.MARK CAMERON (ACT): Thank you Mr Chair. Minister thank you very much for coming down tonight to try and address the concerns that I have as a rural New Zealander and to try and contextualise what on earth it means to rural New Zealand in terms of stormwater management especially.I try and reconcile the concerns that are offered to me in terms of stormwater management in rural New Zealand. I heard the remarks from the former speaker Eugenie Sage in the previous debate when she raised concerns about stormwater and what that actually looks like. How on earth will that be managed Minister?I'll just try and contextualise it for you if I can and I think this warrants a genuine answer—not a flippant one but a genuine answer—on what this looks like. Where I live in Northland it is a piece of land called the Ruawai Flats. It was reclaimed back at the turn of the last century totally drained by part of a wider scheme called the Albertlander scheme. They reclaimed it all. Now that stormwater reality—it's dead flat. To give you some kind of context it's about 3 meters above sea level that was all drained into the Kaipara Harbour. That was done by local catchment groups.Can you please tell me this committee and anyone weighing in how on earth that local asset and the management and the infrastructure that has been managed by those people for now the last 120 years would fall into a new entity with shared governance arrangements—some appointed; some go through the democratic process—to give effect to Te Mana o te Wai statements. Gracious me; I still don't know what that means when it comes to stormwater management especially. When it comes to outcomes—because I stress this point Minister—this is an example. We don't have a problem. There absolutely isn't a problem and I think this committee deserves to know how rural stormwater Minister will be managed.In previous exchanges with the former Minister of Local Government we were talking about green overland flow and I think that needs to be reconciled. How many tens of thousands of kilometres of local government infrastructure assets will this bill run roughshod over? And what will it mean in terms of asset management having that asset taken off the likes of where I live and then adjudicated financed funded and controlled from an entity based predominantly in Auckland?MELISSA LEE (National): Thank you very much Mr Chair. It's a pleasure to actually participate because I have yet to speak on this particular piece of legislation. I grabbed the legislation and I started reading and even right from the beginning I'm slightly confused as to what this is all about because it is rather convoluting. When I was listening to my colleague earlier she gave a little bit of a history which sort of seems like there's a massive confusion.Going to Part 1 in replacement section 161(1)(ia) inserted by clause 4(2)(h) it talks about how that section "provides that the annual reports of water services entities must contain information on actions they have taken to give effect to te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi with reference to each of the other matters listed in this section". I'm trying to understand—if the Minister could explain to me or to this committee—how that helps or impacts on the services that this water entity will potentially have for customers in water quality and water services.BARBARA KURIGER (National—Taranaki-King Country): Thank you Mr Chair. I just want to follow up—it's page 66; clauses 234 to 236 around the purpose. We've got the "Purpose of the rural supply plan" then the "Contents of the rural supply plan" and then "Engagement on rural supply plans". I brought up in my speech in the second reading the multiple different ways that rural water is supplied: not just for animals but also for those people who work on farms and people who maybe live near to farms. When you start having to define the geographic area setting out how the water services entity will operate the supply with the users of the supply: all of the arrangements the detail around the ongoing maintenance committee and other arrangements for making decisions roles and responsibilities—Minister I know that you often say that you've been out engaging with all the rural communities. I wonder if you can help us by understanding the potential for lots of water supplies to be cut off in terms of those people who don't want to engage with what seems to be a hugely bureaucratic process and those houses will be left to councils to then supply water to because it just becomes too complicated and too hard and another piece of bureaucracy that's imposed on rural people. Thank you.Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government): I thank Barbara Kuriger for her question and Mark Cameron. I'll go through those as best I can. In regards to rural water supplies: if the existing supply already has a relationship with the council—so it could be that they have a committee that is made up of the water users and it is also made up of the council—then that relationship can continue. But with the entity those users will be able to continue to have the opportunity to have a joint operational committee. They'll also have a choice: they can withdraw themselves from coverage of this bill and the reforms if they wish; however of course they wouldn't get the benefit of the scale of being included in those. We've worked really constructively with water users. There's been a really targeted constructive approach down in the Clutha area led by the council down there. We've taken on board their concerns and a lot of that is being reflected. In regards to rural drainage that's not in scope of these reforms—councils will continue to be accountable for rural flood- and stormwater arrangements. Water services entities will be required to collaborate and support councils as agreed. In regards to the specific example I'm unfamiliar with that. If they have an existing relationship with the local council then that opportunity will continue with the water services entity. If they are completely removed from council provision and they are solely rural supply then they won't be covered by these reforms."