Dowie SarahSARAH DOWIE (National—Invercargill): Well that member opposite Damien O'Connor is very hopeful isn't he? I can't believe that contribution—that we hope for the best. That is symptomatic of the introduction of this bill that it was introduced with haste that there wasn't proper consultation at the onset that it has gone through quite a fraught process and that from our opinion on this side there are many many holes. That is what my Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) seek to do—to dam the leaks of this bill in fact. We're not hoping for the best; we want to legislate for the best. With respect to officials answering me about the process for declaring spawning sites while there was an indication that of course we will adhere to natural justice principles saying that and delivering that in real terms can often vary dramatically from case to case. Isn't that interesting too that the member opposite talked about prohibitions and closing rivers? Well I'm sorry but that's a ban. That is a ban on taking whitebait in certain areas and we can all see where this is going if we don't put in practical solutions to manage the fishery looking laterally at different ways to do that. There is not only an option to close rivers from fishing but there are other practical solutions as outlined and my SOPs as to ways that that can occur. It's interesting too. My colleague Maureen Pugh actually pointed out on YouTube a recording of a meeting that had occurred with commercial whitebait fishers and recreational whitebait fishers on the Coast. There was a scientist there who was on the consultation group who openly said that he is in consultation with the Department of Conservation as to the closure of certain rivers. Again the closure of rivers means a ban on taking whitebait and I simply do not believe that we are at the state that we need to close rivers at this stage. I think that there are still pragmatic measures that we can put in place to conserve whitebait but also to sustain the fishery. But my contribution on this point will be with respect to my final SOP which is SOP 391 and that is with respect to the regulation-making power in Part 1. What I would like to do there is to insert new section 48A(1) in clause 16(3A) so that before making any recommendation the Minister must consult with any person or organisation that is likely to be substantially affected by any regulations. I do that for the simple reason that I have not seen meaningful consultation. I have seen a bamboozled process—one of this bill going through the House with a lack of consultation. That was outlined in the regulatory impact statement. The bill was introduced with haste. There wasn't proper consultation undertaken. At a separate point there was another process undertaken with respect specifically to whitebait and then that morphed into something else. As you can see it's all smoke and mirrors as to what's going on with respect to the management of the whitebait fishery moving forward and so this SOP clearly outlines that there must be consultation with those affected before any regulations are put in place. It's symptomatic again of this Government to rush things through and not undertake meaningful consultation. We don't trust that with the best of legislation with holes in it it will transpire that the best of situations will be the outcome. We want to make sure that it is there in black and white and that process is followed and that for these people where their livelihoods are affected and their recreation is affected and where Kiwi traditions are affected there is meaningful consultation to arrive at regulations that are again effective and can hopefully provide a win-win moving forward and also we want that scientific and quantitative evidence taken into account because quite frankly there is dispute over the science with respect to population of whitebait. There is dispute over the evidence that the population of whitebait is declining. There is a lack of research that is available on each river within our catchments within our regions and I think that there needs to be some of that undertaken so that we can get a very good grasp on what is going on. Look in my region in Southland in the wilds of Fiordland there are rivers that are untouched that basically house spawning grounds where whitebait are thriving. But let's ascertain that in a quantitative way and especially on the West Coast where there is 85 percent of the landmass there being designated conservation estate. Let's start doing that research. Let's start working with whitebaiters to understand what their catch has been from season to season and to put in place regulation that is effective that is practical that is pragmatic and that actually means something rather than just putting in place measures because somebody thinks that that's the right thing to do. As I said there are two sides to this argument. Whitebaiting is a Kiwi tradition and also our indigenous fish are very important to us all so let's meet in the middle. Let's pass these SOPs that I have put up let's knock this bill into shape and let's bring about some solutions that are good for regional New Zealand but also good for our native fish.