English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:627;Page:22180] 
9.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he stand by the statement he made earlier this year that major changes in student loan policies were only likely to happen “if the country struck oil and we were guaranteed economic security for the next 50 years”; if not why not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 In the same interview I also said that Labour had a commitment to keep improving things. I think last week’s announcement that we will scrap interest on student loans makes good on that commitment. I think that many of those responsible for the 620000 hits on the Labour website agree. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that the real reason he changed his mind was that Labour was behind in the polls and that he and Helen Clark have rolled Dr Cullen and decided to abandon Labour’s claims to fiscal credibility? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No to all of that. I would like to add that one of the people who has been leading the policy in this area because of his concerns for the long-term economy and the community as a result of the overbearing loan scheme approach has been Dr Cullen. 
Nanaia Mahuta 
: Has the Minister seen any alternative proposals to change student loan repayment policies? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I have seen an approach. It is a rather unusual one. What it says is that the higher one’s income the lower one’s effective interest rate is. That means that someone on an income of $100000 or $200000 has a much lower effective interest rate than a mum at home or a poor Pacific Island family on a very low income. I think that approach from Bill English is disgraceful. 
Deborah Coddington 
: Can the Minister confirm that Mr English actually paraphrased and that what the Minister really said was: “if the country struck oil and we were guaranteed economic security for the next 50 years or we’re down in the polls 2 months out from an election” and that that is the real reason for this election bribe? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: From memory the decisions on this were made when Labour was ahead in the polls but that is an irrelevant point. At the moment a person who is jumping before the ship goes down is hardly the one to talk about poll ratings. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that only 25 percent of borrowers have a loan balance of over $20000 but that that 25 percent of borrowers will get 80 percent of the proceeds of a multibillion-dollar interest write-off; how does he justify channelling 80 percent of the multibillion-dollar interest-rate write-off to just 25 percent of the borrowers—those with the biggest debts? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I am slightly bemused by that question. The National Party of course excludes from its policy mums at home looking after their kids. Their loan balances will go up— 
Dr Don Brash 
: They aren’t paying interest now. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: They are paying interest. That shows again that Dr Brash does not know the detail of his own policy. Under the National policy a woman at home with kids has her balance going up while the person with income of $100000 has a highly discounted interest rate. Dr Brash should get on top of the detail of his own policy; showing his ignorance in the House is not good. 
Dr Don Brash 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The student loan scheme provides that for mothers at home their real loan remains constant. Can the Minister confirm that? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. Would the member like to rephrase it as a question. 
Dr Don Brash 
: The Minister asserted something that is factually wrong. I challenge that. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is a debatable issue. If the member would like to ask a question then the Minister should respond to it. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I made a complaint about the way you were conducting the House earlier today and I am making another complaint now. A member cannot rise on a point of order and ask a question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I entirely agree with the member but I was saying that that was not a point of order and that if he would like to ask a question he should ask one. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: The second thing is that points of order are always heard in silence. We cannot have this sham as we close for the election—it will be a big enough sham after when these people go from here. My real point is that if Dr Brash was going to make a point in his point of order it was that the thing was consumer price indexed—that is all it means. Dr Brash has got it wrong again. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: It might just be a matter of advice to the member opposite but the way to ask a question is to stand up say “Madam Speaker” then say “supplementary question” and maybe the member should do that. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please sit down. That is not a point of order. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister of Education explain to the House how he justifies the following figures: a borrower with a balance of $15000 according to his calculator will benefit by $4600 over the life of the loan but a borrower with a balance of $40000 will benefit by 10 times as much? Why does he sit here shedding crocodile tears for people on low incomes when the vast bulk of the benefit of this policy goes to people with loans over $50000? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: As I pointed out to the member before and as the member should know the people who are best off under this policy are in fact the people who are at home—the people whose loan balances would keep on going up and up while they stayed at home looking after their kids. I do not know why the member hates women at home so much but what I do want to say to that member is that Labour’s policy is based on people paying back what they borrowed; National’s policy is based on giving extra discounts to the highest-income earners in New Zealand. 
Hon Bill English 
: If the member describes National’s policy as extra discounts to people on the highest incomes why will someone with a loan of $60000 benefit according to his calculator by $92800 over the life of this policy whereas someone with the average balance will benefit by about one-twentieth of that amount? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: What is clearly obvious is that people who have lower incomes and higher loan balances benefit more.