Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:662;Page:10824] 
8. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: How important is it that parents receive plain English information on their children’s progress against national standards? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 It is very important that the information that parents receive explains to them clearly and in plain language how their child is doing at school. This means providing information that tells them what progress their child is making and how he or she is achieving in relation to the national standards. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: How would the Minister explain in plain English to the parents of a year 8 student that notwithstanding their child being in stanine six being in the top half of the asTTle results fulfilling the expected requirements of the New Zealand curriculum being in the average and above group for the progressive achievement test and being ranked in the top third of the OECD their child has failed to meet the numeracy requirements of her national standards? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The member fails to understand that the national standards are designed to lift standards and they are aligned to National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) level 2. In those circumstances that child would not be on track to achieve at NCEA level 2. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was about measurement not lifting and it was about how she would explain that a child who is average or above in New Zealand has failed. The question did not ask about how the tool is to be used in the future. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: With respect to the member I listened quite carefully to the Minister’s answer. Unless I misheard her I believe that she was pointing out in her answer that the standards that are being set may be a little higher than those in previous tests and that someone who might have been above the average in the asTTle tests may not meet the national standards which may be set differently. The member can pursue that point in supplementary questions. 
Allan Peachey 
: What support is being provided to schools to help them to report to parents in plain language on children’s achievements and progress against the national standards? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: More than $26 million of existing professional development funding has been budgeted for and is focused on delivering extensive specialised support around national standards including reporting to parents. We have also provided a range of online resources and a self-review tool to support schools’ improvement of their reporting practices. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: How will having a national standard that her ministry says 50 percent of year 8 students will not meet help to identify the bottom 20 percent of students who she says make up the tail of underachievement that she wants to focus on? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The national standards are designed for all students not just the bottom 20 percent. First of all no good teacher would ever label a child who did not reach the national standard as a failure. No good teacher would ever call a student a failure. Secondly schools will be reporting to parents about the progress and achievement that their child is making in relation to the national standards. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think you know what it is. Again it was a pretty simple question about how when we have a standard that is set at 50 percent it helps to identify the bottom 20 percent. I do not— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: On this occasion I support the honourable member. The question was reasonably concise. It asked how schools would identify the bottom 20 percent of students that the member understood were causing concern. The Minister did not give any information on that at all. It would be helpful if she could do so. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The national standards are designed for all students not just the bottom 20 percent. Teachers are required to report on all students to their parents in writing in plain language twice a year. Even the bottom 20 percent will be reported on to their parents as to how they are progressing and achieving against the standards. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: How then do her standards differentiate between a child who is in the bottom 10 percent and a child who is say at 45 percent of his or her cohort? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The discussions between teachers and parents are held entirely at their discretion. So how teachers explain to parents where their child is at at that particular point in time and explain how that child has progressed is up to them. Teachers know best. Their relationship is with the parents. But what parents must know—and we know this because parents have told us this—is how their child is progressing against the national standards. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is the same point of order that I had raised before. I asked how the national standards help to differentiate between a child who is at 10 percent and a child who is at 45 percent. The discussion with the parent does not actually help to identify where a child sits against the standard. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Again the Minister focused in her answer on how teachers would report to parents rather than on how the standards would differentiate between the bottom 10 percent of students and say a student who is achieving at around the 45 percent level. It would be helpful if the Minister could indicate in her answer to the member’s question how the national standards will differentiate between those students. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: If the member cares to read the national standards he will see that they set out very well what is expected at standard. There are exemplars for teachers to use and of course they can use their professional judgment on where the child’s achievement and progress sit. Teachers can also use a whole range of assessment techniques and tools to ascertain that. A good-quality teacher will know what the difference is in a child’s achievement and progress. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What then is the point of having a standard? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Mr Speaker— 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Back to basics. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Back to basics. The national standards are designed to ensure that every single New Zealand child is able to achieve and progress in reading writing and maths so that he or she will achieve NCEA level 2 as the minimum qualification that a modern child needs in order to live a full and successful life. I understand that that is a difficult concept for the Opposition to grasp. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: How will identifying half of the year 8 children as not meeting a standard help every child to achieve NCEA level 2? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: That is exactly the point. It is the legacy of the 9 years of the previous Labour Government that half the children in year 8 are not on track in mathematics to achieve NCEA level 2. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question asked how identifying children would help them to get to NCEA level 2. That was the purport of my question and you understand that Mr Speaker. The question asked not how they would get there; it asked what the point is of having those standards if they do not assist children to get there. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: The member should not go pleading to you Mr Speaker on the basis of his interpretation of his own question. The  
Hansard 
 will show what he asked. Equally it will show that the response was very good. The fact that he claims that 50 percent of year 8 students will not meet a standard simply means that those students have an awful lot of work to do. The Minister pointed out that that is the legacy of the previous Government’s failings. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is a nice try but the difficulty is that the member asked a pretty fair question on how identifying a certain number of children as not meeting a standard will assist them in reaching NCEA level 2. It is a fair question and it is perfectly capable of being answered. To say it is all the fault of the previous Government that 45 percent of students are not meeting the new standard does not really answer that question. I think the question deserves an answer before a political criticism is made because it is a fair question. I can think of all sorts of ways of answering that question. I think an answer is deserved. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If this matter relates to a year 8 standard then it is patently evident that most of the years of those children’s education were under the previous Government. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. The member knows that the Minister does not need that kind of help to answer a pretty simple question. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The standards will provide signposts for teachers and parents to notice recognise and respond to.