Collins JudithHon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura): Well there's a familiar ring about this bill—it reminds me of the Therapeutics Products and Medicines Bill 2006 which was the last time that this Government a Labour Government wanted to ram through big pharma regulation to impose it on our small businesses in New Zealand. Small businesses have actually set up a very successful exporting market not only in cosmetics—and as we heard from Dr Shane Reti $400 million worth of exports of cosmetics from New Zealand—but also on our therapeutics goods providers. We've heard from Te Paati Māori about the effect on traditional Māori health and to have the Minister come and tell us today Don't worry it'll all get fixed some time"—when she does another Supplementary Order Paper—that's simply not good enough. There was no need for this bill to come to Parliament in the first place and when we have a situation where the New Zealand National Party the Greens Te Paati Māori and the ACT Party are all on the same side the Labour Party should be rethinking what they're doing. I thought it was a very defensive Minister this morning trying to justify this piece of legislation; very defensive and the Minister told the House that there had been some people who had been against the bill. We then heard from our colleague Nicola Grigg the MP for Selwyn that actually it was over 16000 submissions against the bill and it seems as though there were a few who were for it—and I wonder who they were; they're not the people who either produce sell or consume the therapeutic natural products that people want to be able to consume.If I look at the innovation side in health—I am obviously involved in quite a lot of that around the technology innovation and science areas and I know that software is now being used in health to provide a better service for New Zealanders and it's the sort of work that is currently being exported. We can at the moment do that sort of work in New Zealand: trial it; do it—but no this Government wants to put a whole big set of regulations onto it and so much of this innovation comes from the smaller people—the people who are the PhD students at the universities the people in our Crown research institutes and the people who are actually thinking about solutions. This bill makes it harder for them to be able to get the evidence that they need to be able to then export their innovation to places like the United States for instance—and instead this is actually about protecting vested interests. The Minister and the Labour Party have stood up and said "Look it's really all about protecting New Zealanders". Well when someone's got 16000 New Zealanders who submit against being protected in that way well maybe they don't want that sort of protection. And the fact is it's not about protecting New Zealanders: that may be the intent of the start of the bill but it's become this enormous great overreach.I come back again: when you've got the Green Party Te Paati Māori the ACT Party and the New Zealand National Party all against this legislation it's time for this Government to have yet another rethink as they were forced to do in 2006. I was at that stage the health spokesperson for the National Party so I'm very aware of what happened. The people who were most upset that that bill didn't get passed were the big pharmaceuticals and the Australian Government because they wanted to have our regulation exactly the same. And why is that? Because it is vested interest. The bill was then being driven through by Hon Annette King who is currently the Government's appointee to the High Commission in Australia—it is no reason for us to repeat the problems of the past. And even then in those days there was not the software development that is currently being undertaken. I have seen software literally changing people's lives in healthcare: whether it's in access to medical treatment or whether it's actually providing—through the use of software and artificial intelligence and data—the ability for New Zealanders who could not otherwise access it to get specialist assessment. This is amazing work that is going on and a lot of it is coming out of Auckland in particular and the reason is because of the drive that is there around medical technology. In fact there is at the moment in Newmarket a whole new sector being set up around medical health and medical tech. We have enormous potential in this country to be a massive exporter of high-worth science that actually helps to change the world for the better and that innovation is coming again from the little people; the small people—not the great big multinationals. This bill is not needed. To hear from Dr Shane Reti about how fluoride in toothpaste will now be regulated—tell me: how many instances of overuse of fluoride in toothpastes have we had? Sunscreens are now going to be called medicines. We've got retinol used by some of us in our skincare and I must say very successfully I think—people tell me! I'm so modest you know I am. Retinol is suddenly going to be a medicine. This is ridiculous: New Zealanders can't even get appointments with GPs and suddenly it's going to be a medicine. New Zealanders can't even get treatment in emergency departments and suddenly it's going to be a medicine. The whole thing is bonkers. This Government needs to actually think about—in their last few months of being in Government—the harm that they're doing to a fledgling industry and our therapeutics producers and those who consume them because that Government thinks that they want to protect us.Perhaps we could take some personal responsibility; I know it is a vile concept for the other side but just occasionally I think of some of these businesses that I've visited. The Ārepa people for instance they produce a blackcurrant drink with other things in them—it is all scientifically proven that it does actually affect people in a good way around brain health. These are the sorts of things—and they are exporting. What's going to happen to them? I mean I don't know what's going to happen to them under this but the fact is is that they shouldn't be having to worry about that. It is absolutely nonsense overreach; typical behaviour from a Government that thinks that 16000 New Zealanders could be just ignored. I was surprised that the former chair of the Health Committee did not want to take a longer call on this. In fact I've noticed that the people who don't want to talk about it are in fact the Labour Party. Yet I see other parties here happy to talk about it. Why? Because this is yet again another anti-innovation big multinational industry - friendly piece of legislation and again Government thinking it knows best. Actually as I say when you look at the philosophical divides in Parliament the fact that all this side that is not Labour is against it should tell you everything. And it's actually quite patronising to hear the Minister stand up this morning and say that the Māori therapeutics "that'll all be fine; don't worry about that that'll be fine". Yeah well what about everyone else? What about those who bring in supplements from overseas or those who bring in for instance their own medicines that they can't get here because they're not on the regulated list of Pharmac; those people who have rare diseases that pharmaceuticals actually want to ask them if they can let them trial their products. What about them? Well we're being told that they can't get that. Dr Shane Reti who is a very mild-mannered and measured person an extremely intelligent hard-working and experienced not only medical practitioner but in many other ways researcher—when he says that this is a really dopey bill he's right; it's a really dopey bill. We're trying to fix something that the Government thinks is going to come. It's almost 20 years since they last tried to do it and it's in the next 20 years that we should see anything like it. It's absolutely ridiculous; we stand against this bill."