Mahuta NanaiaHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): The last contribution of that member Simon Watts would make some people listening to this debate think that Māori aren't ratepayers and they're not taxpayers but they are. That is the reality. In many communities around the country Māori are ratepayers. But this isn't a binary issue between Māori and everybody else; this is an issue about how do we provide safe drinking water how do we achieve better environmental outcomes how do we have water reform that enables a financially sustainable ability to fund water infrastructure which is a significant core asset. We'll do that through scale and aggregation separating balance sheets. We'll do that through ensuring good governance. We'll do that through ensuring that the Crown's Treaty obligation is built into the reform process. We'll do that by ensuring that there is no privatisation. So shareholding interest does not equate to a dividend which makes it easier for privatisation. That is not the way this Government is going. We're having a shareholding interest that protects the public interest in our water infrastructure network now going forward into the future but more than that we want to ensure that there is local voice baked into every part of the decision-making process because we know at a time when citizens are facing cost of living challenges we need an affordable solution for the future.That member said that there is no alternative model and that he proposes there is. Now that was unkind of me and I admit that because in the three years prior to landing on the model that we've had we tested many of the ideas that have been put up recently in the House by that member and it looked like this: a scaled-up council-controlled organisation (CCO) model; the potential of a New Zealand Transport Agency type of model the opportunity to aggregate it to a regional level in varying degrees and then the opportunity to perhaps look to something that is totally out of the box and somewhat of an innovation between a CCO model and something else. All of those models were tried and tested and they are in the regulatory impact statement that is attached to this reform programme that the public can see and is fully visible to anyone who wants to analyse our considerations. Much of the information that we secured over a long period of time came from councils themselves; they weren't numbers that were just thought up out of the air.But this is the thing: the Government had some key priorities that it wanted to ensure could be achieved in a reform programme in a way that all communities benefited large and small because we know that the costs impacting on small communities right now going forward into the future with climate change being a real significant impact—let's look at Westland—needed to be addressed. That's why the reform approach that we're taking—and that is in front of you—delivers on all those key fronts: scale and aggregation making sure we get balance sheet separation good governance making sure that our Treaty obligations are upheld making sure that it is a public model where there will be no privatisation ensuring that local voice is evident and that we will deliver now going forward into the future greater affordability back to ratepayers.Simon Watts: You know that's not true Minister.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Let's face it: the growing reality—and that member wants to reject it—is that Māori are ratepayers. In my community—actually as a result of Treaty settlements—Māori make a significant rating contribution to councils in that area. That is the case also in the South Island. It's not the sole justification for having joint decision-making on the regional representative group but it makes sense that we take the conversation that those members want to have around ownership and assets towards betterment for the environment the community; better drinking-water outcomes; and long-term intergenerational objectives to care for our most precious resource which is water. That is why joint decision-making matters. That is why Te Mana o te Wai is embedded within the framework of this legislation because we cannot just keep thinking about today; we need to think about tomorrow.Simon Court: Water's just a resource.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: We cannot think that water is an infinite resource.Simon Court: It is.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: It isn't. It needs to be cared for in a way that we're making more efficient decisions and able to invest in the water network and able to adopt green solutions to make our communities more livable and vibrant for our kids and their kids to follow. Again that's why we won't be supporting Supplementary Order Papers 287 or 288 that are being proposed by Simon Watts.