4. Budget 2017—Spending Increases in Relation to Population Growth and InflationGRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central) to the Minister of FinanceBudget 2017—Spending Increases in Relation to Population Growth and Inflation4. GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central) to the Minister of Finance: Is Colin James correct when he says that a 4 percent increase in spending in Budget 2017 is required just to stand still given population growth and inflation; if not what increase is required?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Finance): No I have seen Mr James' calculations this morning and I do not agree with his assumptions because he leaves out the matter of productivity and the Government is of course focused on boosting productivity including in the public sector. We do not measure success by how much we spend but on whether it meets the Government's needs for results and whether we are getting the results those investments are generating on behalf of taxpayers.Grant Robertson: What percentage difference would including productivity make to Mr James' calculation?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The Government does not just say: Here's the public sector and we should throw a lot more money at the public sector regardless of the results that investment would achieve." I know that is the Labour Party's approach. The Labour Party likes to say to the unions in particular "How much money do you need for the PSA?" and when they give it the answer it just hands over the money. That is how it works in a Labour Government but not in a National Government.Grant Robertson: Can he guarantee that he will fund the health budget for the real cost of inflation and demographic change in this Budget and start the process of restoring the $1.7 billion of underfunding caused by his Government failing to do this for the last 6 years?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I completely reject the number that the member uses. It is absolutely wrong. And do you know how you know it is wrong? Because the performance of the health sector has improved under this Government—Dr David Clark: That's not true.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: —improved—at exactly the levels of investment we have made and I will give the member an example. A recent New Zealand Medical Journal article said thousands of lives have been saved by productivity improvements in hospital emergency departments after targets were introduced in 2009.Grant Robertson: You're not in the real world Steven.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: That is real productivity improvements in the real world not like Mr Robertson who would just throw money at whatever sector he saw.Dr David Clark: I seek leave to table a report that says that there have been no productivity improvements in the health—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I need the source of the report.Dr David Clark: It is a Treasury document.Mr SPEAKER: And is it publicly available?Dr David Clark: It is but the Minister clearly—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I would be grateful if the member would not waste my time. It is publicly available. Members can look for it if they want.Grant Robertson: Will any increased funding for the accommodation supplement in tomorrow's Budget take account of the 10 percent increase in median weekly rents in the last year?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well the member is sidling up to asking me to reveal the details of the Budget tomorrow in any number of respects. Could I make a suggestion to him that within 24 hours he will get his wish and hear what is in the Budget?Grant Robertson: Do schools parents and teachers deserve to see a real per-child funding increase in this Budget for schools?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Once again he will find out in the Budget tomorrow. But again in terms of investment it is not important about the inputs; what are important are the outputs. This Government has shown over 8 years that it is about results and the Labour Party it appears is still back in 2008 and is all about pouring the money in and forgetting about the results.Grant Robertson: Is it not time that he was straight up with New Zealanders about what his Budget numbers mean given that the head of business for New Zealand Media and Entertainment Fran O'Sullivan said this morning: "He's"—Mr Joyce—"already been caught out by Labour's Grant Robertson when it comes to massaging numbers on … infrastructure."? Modestly I say that.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: And thousands and thousands of New Zealand Herald readers said: "Who?". [Interruption] But the simple fact of the matter is the member is wrong—and actually on this occasion the eminent Ms O'Sullivan is wrong—because actually the infrastructure spend has gone up since Budget 2016 and when the member sees the numbers tomorrow he will find out that if anybody knows who he is it will be because he mucked up the numbers."