McClay ToddHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Agriculture): Thank you Mr Speaker. We of course are supporting this legislation. It's extremely important so we can lay the foundations and groundwork to actually find an enduring solution to agricultural emissions reduction. Because sadly after six years of the last Government that wasn't achieved; the only thing that was achieved was Do what we say or else we're going to tax you and for some of you farmers we will tax you out of existence." Now if we were the worst carbon-emitting food producers in the world that would be an argument with merit. However we're not. We're some of the best—if not the best—most efficient food producers with the lowest carbon footprint.And all that happens if you put a tax upon agriculture—which is what the last Government legislated for by putting agriculture into the emissions trading scheme (ETS) next year; of course it's not in at the moment it comes into effect on 1 January without this change—is that jobs and production goes overseas. What that means is that in the European Union and the United Kingdom and America where their farmers produce food with a greater carbon footprint and more emissions than New Zealand farmers have they will produce the food the climate will be worse off New Zealand will be poorer if farmers go out of business and we won't do that.But we are absolutely committed to meeting New Zealand's international obligations when it comes to reducing emissions. The members opposite are right: the agriculture rural sector must play its part. But it must play its part in a way that doesn't put them out of business and merely makes New Zealand feel like it's done the right thing but sends those jobs and production overseas. Speakers from the Opposition have said "Well what's the Government's plan?" It's really clear: we campaigned on it we were elected and we are putting it through. Number one we will commit to having an independent review of the science and targets of methane against additional warming this year so we can set the target of what agriculture has to do.You see the last Government said by 2050 agriculture must reduce its methane emissions by between 24 and 47 percent. That's not a business plan that's not a target; it's a hope that they can sort it out later on. How about we come up with exactly what agriculture needs to do and then work with them not tax them but work with them to achieve that?Number two we said next year we'll stand up a system for on-farm measurement of methane. So the Labour Government previously said "From 1 January we will tax you but we haven't even set up the system to know how much methane you are producing to measure so we can work out what the tax would be. So we'll just chuck you into the ETS." Well we won't do that; we'll deliver on it next year. We've said a pricing system set up by 2030 and a pricing system a price of tax is used for one of two things: it's used so that you will change behaviour. The problem is with what the Labour Government did the behaviour they want to change is there's no farming as a consequence because they're not the tools and their systems are not there to allow farmers to reduce emissions without reducing production—i.e. closing down farms—then that tax is actually just putting people out of business.What we're also doing is saying we're going to invest much much more in the research and development. And if you go and talk to our scientists in New Zealand they are developing the solutions that New Zealand farmers and the world's farmers will use to reduce emissions reduce methane produce the same amount or less—i.e. becoming much more efficient. And we announced $400 million and will continue with a lot more focus on that.The final thing I guess I want to say is yes we have disbanded He Waka Eke Noa—because it was dead; there was no partnership. The farming sector worked tirelessly over many years to come up with solutions and the previous Government in part with Labour but largely the Green Party that come to this Parliament and lecture everybody and said "Well we don't accept that we've got a better idea."—and therefore it's that point that they drove a great big diesel tractor through the middle of the so-called partnership and destroyed it. And so yes it's gone because it doesn't exist anymore. In part though in its replacement we've established a pasture sector group with just those that represent methane—i.e. pasture farmers to find enduring solutions. Number one they're committed to reducing emissions; number two they're committed to doing it without reducing production; and number three the Opposition is right—we are going to work with them to achieve that because it is important for New Zealand and also it's important for our economy.At the Fieldays a week or so ago the Labour Party turned up and said "We are creating the red band group. And what we're going to do is going to work with farmers we're going to cooperate with farmers and we're going to listen to you because we care about you farmers."—the Labour Party in Opposition. And the first thing they've done they left their Red Bands that were shining at the door and they walked in here and said they are voting against this because farmers are bad people and they want to tax them. And I can say to members of the Labour Party you shouldn't have spent your own money on those Red Bands because you wasted that money. If you actually support agriculture you would be supporting this in first reading so the committee can have a full discussion and debate against it but oh no you want to tax them out of existence."