Dyson Ruth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Dyson Ruth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 26 March 2013. Volume:688;Page:8888. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
5. 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Labour—Port Hills) 
 to the  
Minister of Conservation 
: What is the total number of staff that will lose their jobs at the Department of Conservation as a result of staff cuts announced today and how many if any of those are “frontline” staff? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Conservation) 
: 
 It is not yet possible to determine the total number of staff who will lose their jobs. There is the loss of 140 mainly middle-management positions but the department for the last 18 months had a recruitment freeze so that 166 permanent positions remain open. Many of these fourth and fifth-tier managers will be offered this permanent range of positions but they also may choose to take redundancy. We will know the final number in July. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: What is the expectation of the advocacy role of the Department of Conservation following the latest round of cuts and will this expectation lead to an increase in the number of Department of Conservation representations in resource management hearings which fell from 98 in 2011 to just 48 in 2012? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I have made it plain to the Director-General of Conservation that in their advocacy role they need to focus on where the department is adding value particularly in the biodiversity area. When it comes to an area of landscape where actually it is very much in the eye of the beholder it is not my view that the Department of Conservation adds tremendous value to those Environment Court or council hearings. I very much hold the view that we should let elected representatives on their local councils decide where those landscape values are the priority so that is the change I have made. I am not in favour of the Department of Conservation making submissions to stop people getting jobs. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: How will replacing skilled and experienced front-line conservation staff with volunteers improve the protection of our conservation estate and our “100% Pure New Zealand” brand? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Well that is not what is occurring. What has happened is that prior to the global financial crisis when the previous Government thought that money grew on trees the department expanded its staff numbers by 500 and more than doubled its budget. We are a Government that believes in balancing the budget. That means that the Department of Conservation has to play its part like every other agency. This flattened structure will enable us to deliver better conservation and value for money for the taxpayer. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: Has he corrected the error of the Prime Minister who said that the latest Department of Conservation restructuring will not affect front-line staff given that the regional programme managers include activities such as species recovery and track building and that 22 of the proposed job losses are rangers’—or are species recovery track building and rangers no longer front-line positions? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The bulk of the reduced positions are in middle-management. There are a number that are for instance not middle-managers—people who are for instance infrastructure planners. I do not think this House considers infrastructure planners as front line. What I will say to the member is that at the end of this restructuring there will be more rangers—more rangers—in the Department of Conservation than there ever was which is very much the practical brand of conservation that this Government stands for. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: How does he expect Department of Conservation staff to do their job after today’s cuts and protect vulnerable species like this black petrel that was killed through commercial fishing when staff across the Ministry for Primary Industries and the Department of Conservation are already too stretched to ensure compliance with the rules that are meant to protect these birds? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I share the member’s passion for the protection of our birds but I would note this—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Since I was the Minister in the late 1990s the department today and next year will have 200 more staff. It will have over $100 million more in real terms than what there was a decade ago and I think that really does just show the level of commitment that there genuinely is to conservation and the survival of our native species. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Will the Minister guarantee the survival of the black petrel in light of today’s cuts when there are roughly only 1000 breeding pairs remaining there is no action plan to ensure its survival and his Government’s last round of so-called non - front-line reductions led to cuts in departmental staff on Great Barrier Island the only place where this bird continues to breed? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I rate the chances of the black petrel surviving far greater than that of the Leader of the Opposition. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was a straight question to the Minister. I think it deserved an answer. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Can I— 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Could you even hear it? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Can I invite the member to have a very good look at the content and length of her question. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: Does the Minister consider the staff at the Golden Bay office in Takaka to be front-line staff; if so why has he cut staff from 3.5 down to just one? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The member’s figures are totally incorrect and I would be happy to table— 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I hope the Minister can table. He has just— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The Minister can rise and say he does not accept your figures. That is quite acceptable. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: That’s not what he said. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked a straight question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Mr Mallard is interjecting that I did not hear the question and the answer. It is because of the level of noise. I invite the member to ask his question again. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: Does the Minister consider staff at the Golden Bay office in Takaka to be front-line staff; if so why has he cut staff from 3.5 down to just one? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I would be happy to have a bet with the member opposite for the best bottle of Nelson wine that after this restructuring there will be a lot more than one staff in Takaka—happy to take that bet. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has a right to have his point of order heard in silence so we will wait until there is enough silence for the member to have his point of order heard. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: That member made the same bet over electricity prices. I am still waiting for the bottle of wine. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order but we will consider it one-all.