Wall Louisa; Rurawhe AdrianLOUISA WALL (Labour): E te Māngai o te Whare tēnā koutou katoa whakamanatia ngā takatāpui [To the Speaker greetings to all acknowledge all gay people] or as Rawiri would say I'm proud to be takatāpui. I have some evidence from the United States about how damaging conversion therapy conversion practices are. Of the young people who experienced conversion therapy and who attempted suicide in 2020 28 percent of the young people who went through conversion therapy experienced suicide. No experience of conversion therapy: 12 percent. So it's harmful. I want us to be really clear about what conversion therapy is. Conversion therapy was started in 1899 by a German psychiatrist. I won't go into his name but essentially the proposition at that time was that being gay was a disease and it must be cured. What they did—or what he purported to do—was turn gays straight by hypnosis and also trips to the brothel. Why? Because at that time we were seen as sinful as deviant as criminals. So obviously that religious overlay in our lives without clear scientific evidence was the prevailing doctrine which is why it was called a therapy. In the 1920s they actually performed testicle transplants to remove testicles from gay men and give them—Terisa Ngobi: That's torture.LOUISA WALL: It is torture—absolutely. The majority of clinicians said being gay was a disease so we could experience electroconvulsive therapy lobotomies shock treatment porn and brothels and latterly it became aversion therapy where homosexual men had to watch porn and the shock therapy was through their penises—because obviously if you were disgusted by homosexuality then you would be cured and you would lead a normal life. In 1973 this all changed when the American Psychiatric Association deemed that conversion practices were harmful and that there was no scientific evidence that they worked. So the reality of today is that these practices are still happening except that they happen in camps Christian camps. They happen through prayer vigils. They happen through talk therapy. They happen through exorcisms. And for women they include corrective rape. That is what conversion therapy is which is why we want to ban it. It's abhorrent. It's disgusting. It's a relic of a historical positioning about LGBTIQ+ peoples somehow being wrong. We are not wrong. We are born exactly as we're meant to be and we deserve the protection of the State.What conversion therapy is not—and I want to reference the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists. They have a position statement on sexual orientation change efforts. They do not support the use sexual orientation change efforts of any kind. There is no scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Sexual orientation change efforts risk causing significant harm to individuals." What they're really clear about however is that sexual orientation change efforts do not refer to those undergoing gender affirmation therapy or management. And herein lies the relevance to clause 5(2)(b) of this piece of legislation which says that conversion practice does not include assisting an individual who is undergoing or considering undergoing a gender transition. So people who are worried about parents being criminalised because they stop their children from receiving hormones that are prescribed by a clinician—get real. It's not a real conversation it's misinformation and trying to create in the public panic that parents are going to be criminalised. I think it's an absolutely abhorrent position for anybody to take on this piece of legislation. At the heart of this is our children and them knowing that they are perfect as they are that they are loved and that we as a society will value them and not let any harm happen to them in their exploration and their expression of who they are. I seriously say to the National Party you are on the wrong side of history. [Interruption] DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! This is a split call. [Interruption] Order! Please can I just say to the people in the gallery that this is a debate for members in the Chamber and we have members waiting to seek their call. You know I can understand a little bit of applause but it's going on too long. You might have that opportunity at the end."