McLellan Tracey; Goldsmith PaulDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour): Thank you Mr Chair. We've had a couple of questions now which I think are best characterised by pointing out some of the potential problems but the lack of robust kind of oomph behind some of the policy decisions that have been made here when we think about what the purpose is and when we're thinking about it.I'll give the Minister of Justice maybe a chance to—before he gets to his feet and answers the specifics around particularly the last two questions—go back a step perhaps and think about specific examples. Because whilst there's been some policy questions asked in so far as whether things will work and whether the there's workability I just noted something that he had said earlier on about the dispersal notices. It kind of piqued my interest because it was a specific example about workability in so far as suggesting that more likely than not I think the Minister said a piece of paper would be issued to convey that dispersal notification. Yet if I recall correctly during this process and certainly during the Justice Committee process there seemed to be—and when we look through the regulatory impact statement as well—plenty of advice to show that that's largely an unrealistic expectation that police were going to be able to issue a piece of paper on the side of the road at the event when they witnessed gang members with their gang patches in groups of three or more.So if that's not entirely accurate as a valid means by which to enact the dispersal process then can the Minister kind of elucidate a little bit further perhaps on other ways in which he understands that those provisions would be enacted? Because I think it's quite critical when we think about the purpose of the Act in so far as being able to reduce the gangs ability to operate and to cause fear and intimidation. If at the first hurdle when it comes to (a) identifying that this has happened (b) issuing some sort of dispersal notice—and for the Minister to rely potentially on a mechanism to do that that we certainly received plenty of information about the unworkability of that just creates a little bit of uneasiness as we're listening here today in this process in this committee of the whole House as to whether that would work or not. I don't feel that sitting here—whilst I've listened to several questions—I feel very much more informed about the practicalities of that. So before I move on—and I think listening to not only just the questions but actually some of the answers has raised some more questions than answers.So before we move on I'd like a little bit of assurance or reassurance if the Minister can about the practical implications about how this is workable particularly given that in first instance that first concrete example he gave seems to be contrary to all the information that we've received to date. So I'm hoping he can help us out there.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice): Thank you very much for those questions. I'm very happy to go through the details of all that in Part 3 which is the appropriate time to do that. I also just wanted to correct a statement made by the previous speaker Hon Ginny Andersen around Mr Mitchell's visit to Australia. He is obviously tuning into radio and listening to this debate carefully—he's probably out there in the public driving around talking to people. But he heard it and he wanted to make the point that he went to Western Australia not to New South Wales—Western Australia. So I just want to pass on my regards to Minister Mitchell and the Police of which he is the Minister. They're going to be receiving extra tools through this legislation.Now we've had some reference by other members to—well is this going to solve a ban on patches? Is this going to solve every problem that we face in the criminal sector and bring about a massive reduction in gang membership and public safety? No individual thing will achieve such a thing. It's about a number of options that Police and the justice system have to deal with what is a longstanding and difficult problem. So the purpose of this legislation is to build on the many pieces of legislation that we already have in the Crimes Act and many other pieces of legislation which are designed to keep us safe as New Zealanders and to enable the police to do their job to keep us safe. This bill is about bringing four extra tools to Police's toolkit in order to deal with the gangs. So it's important to see that context.