Key John: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Key John: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:644;Page:13421] 
4.  
JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she have confidence in all her Ministers? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes. 
John Key 
: Does she condone or approve of Trevor Mallard’s savage attack using parliamentary privilege on Erin Leigh when she blew the whistle on political interference at the Ministry for the Environment? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: My understanding is that the Minister spoke on advice. Having read the  
Hansard 
 I consider it rather mild by his standards. 
John Key 
: Has she sought an assurance then from Trevor Mallard that he has the evidence to back up his career-wrecking statements about Erin Leigh; if not why not? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I understand that when the Minister gave the reply he had advice. 
Judy Turner 
: Does the Prime Minister anticipate a drop in confidence in her Minister of Health if he does nothing to reverse the current widespread policy to bring pressure to bear on mothers of newborn babies so that they leave hospital within hours of giving birth; and does the Prime Minister share United Future’s concern that this cost-saving policy is in fact a false economy and is putting at risk mothers and babies? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The Minister and indeed the entire Government deplore the way the Capital and Coast District Health Board has behaved. 
John Key 
: If the Prime Minister thinks that Mr Mallard’s comments were mild by his normal standards and if she is confident that he was acting on advice will she therefore encourage Mr Mallard to repeat his comments outside the House or will she repeat them on behalf of Mr Mallard outside the House? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I would encourage Ministers and indeed the member opposite to sit quietly while the State Services Commission reports. 
John Key 
: Does the Prime Minister think that it is appropriate behaviour for a senior Minister of her Government when he himself is having some problems to look down the barrel of a camera and beg for sympathy from the people of New Zealand but then on the very first opportunity he gets to come into this House and rip some woman apart on evidence he does not have and to do it in such a cowardly way that he will not repeat it outside the House? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I do not think any sensible person— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. We have parliamentary privilege for a very sound reason. We have had it since the Bill of Rights 1688. The leader of the National Party may not understand that but it is not because of taking preferential treatment against—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member will be heard. There is to be no comment during points of order. I need to hear the whole comment. Please make it succinctly Mr Peters. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I am doing it as briefly as I can. Just because they cannot understand it is not a reason why I should not outline the principle of parliamentary privilege. The fact is a member may say something inside this House because he or she can speak honestly without the threat of legal intimidation outside of it. So to accuse someone of being a coward in the circumstances which is what Mr Key did is simply unparliamentary and he should be asked to apologise. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No. I understand the member’s point but it is not a point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. So is it OK with you for someone to be accused of being a coward inside this House? That is the first time I have ever heard that ruling. Is it OK with you for someone— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I did not hear the word. Would the member please be seated. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Well I did. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please be seated or he will be outside this House. I have ruled that the point the member made was not a point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have ruled on that point. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: It is a new point of order Madam Speaker. I seek clarification from you. Is it OK in this House from that ruling for someone to call another person a coward? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I did not hear those words used. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I certainly heard those words being used. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well that is very helpful. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. If you look at the  
Hansard 
 or hear the tape you will know that two members have just told you what happened. The word “coward” was used. Just because you did not hear it is of no great matter. We did and that is why we are raising the point of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Unfortunately it is of some matter. I did not hear it because of the level of noise that goes on in this House. It is almost impossible from this position to hear anything. I am quite happy to look at the record but I ask the right honourable Prime Minister to please address the question. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have no doubt that Mr Key accused Mr Mallard of cowardice. That is clearly ridiculous particularly when Mr Key himself could be accused of being a copyright pirate. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I would ask members please to respect the Standing Orders and to stop these personal references to each other in the asking and the answering of questions. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In many instances in this House where one member has alleged that another member has said something unparliamentary you have taken it upon yourself to ask the member who is alleged to have made the comment whether he or she did make the comment and if so whether that member would care to withdraw and apologise. In this instance— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have ruled on this matter Mr Mark. 
John Key 
: Does the Prime Minister think that it is a good idea that one of her senior Ministers comes into this House and uses parliamentary privilege to defame a member of the public and if she does think that is the appropriate standard is she surprised that he will not go outside the House and repeat those statements as we would expect him to do if he has the information to back them up; and what message does she think that that behaviour from her senior Minister sends to the rest of the people who work in the State Service in New Zealand? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have no evidence that anyone is being defamed except the regular defamation that occurs from Opposition members. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Is the Prime Minister aware that the last time a State Services Commission report on similar matters was presented Mr Gerry Brownlee in this House described Don Hunn as a liar described Dr Mark Prebble as a liar— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: No I didn’t. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: —this is in the  
Hansard 
—if so is she aware of whether any action was taken against the third-ranked member of the National Party by the leader of that party? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. That is a deliberate misleading of the House by Dr Cullen. I made no such comments about Mr Hunn. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Speaking to the point of order I suggest that the member might care to look at his  
Hansard 
 more closely because I know exactly what he said. But he has just now confirmed that he did call Dr Mark Prebble the head of the State Services Commission a liar. He received no rebuke from his leader—no action at all—and why should we put up with Mr Key’s questions on these matters when in fact clearly he takes no action on these matters when they occur in his own caucus? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I would just remind members that we get into these situations by the language we use when we are asking our questions and giving our answers. I would ask the right honourable Prime Minister to address the question. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: My understanding is that not only was no action taken against Mr Brownlee on that matter but none was taken previously when he lost a civil case for assault and none was taken against Nick Smith when a judge advised him that he simply did not believe the evidence that member had given under oath in court. 
John Key 
: Will the Prime Minister send a message to the State servants of New Zealand today that they should feel confident that if they have a genuine case where they have seen political interference they should be able to speak up or will they know that they will be subject to the sort of callous behaviour that Trevor Mallard meted out; and can she explain whether the reason Trevor Mallard will not repeat his comments outside the House is that one appearance in the dock in a week is one too many and she does not want to make it two? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: My advice to public servants is to follow the whistleblowers legislation. With regard to appearing in docks the member is lucky he did not do that himself on his electoral enrolment. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Madam Speaker— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I ask the member whether this is a supplementary question or a point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: It is a supplementary question. I have given up on the points of order—[ 
Interruption 
]—just temporarily. 
Rodney Hide 
: Get Ronnie to do the same. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the member still alive? Why does the Prime Minister not take the standards set by the leader of the National Party which is to be the beneficiary of an occurrence which was that of Mr Connell rising in the caucus and telling the truth thereupon getting totally expelled from the caucus and not reinstated and he now being in the position has demonstrated that that succeeds in New Zealand politics—why does she not follow that standard? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry but there is no ministerial responsibility for other standards in other caucuses so that question is not in order. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Madam Speaker— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No it is not in order.