Henare PeeniIAN McKELVIE (National—Rangitīkei): Thank you Madam Chair. I'm a commentator not a lawyer so it'll take me a while to get to the question. I wanted to refer to an issue that Mark Cameron raised in a slightly different way in that one of the really interesting submissions that came in on this bill related to legal harvest but not to legal harvest in the term of the bill. It was a very interesting submission—came out of Southland interestingly for Joseph Mooney's benefit—and it related to someone who had effectively harvested the timber legally but then didn't pay for it. It was quite a large submission and I thought that was quite an interesting interpretation of legal harvest.I suppose that leads me on to the topic I wanted to really talk about which is fees. Fees are always of concern in the course of us putting these bills through Parliament but the interesting thing about the fees in this case is that they effectively relate to the sale of wood and those exporters never get to pay the fee because the person who pays the fee inevitably is the forest grower. So it's all very well to say that the benefits of harvesting that forest sheet back to the forest grower but the people who make all the money out of it are the people that harvest it the people that carve it the people that transport it and send it overseas and the people that clip the ticket on the way past. This doesn't affect them at all.So I suppose my concern is—and there was quite a bit of concern expressed in the course of the submissions on this bill—related to the fees and the way we set fees. This is a topic that comes up with every one of these bills that we put through Parliament and there's some frustration of course that those fees are not ever able to be identified prior to the bill passing because of course until the bill's passed there's not the ability to set the fee which I think's probably logical but that's the logic we use in this Parliament.So I suppose my question for the Minister of Forestry was: does he have concerns around where these fees might get to and how they'll be managed? I think as I said those fees will always sheet back to the person who grows the trees. It's not possible to clip the ticket on the way past because we would've just passed the costs straight back to the grower of the trees and that's quite a significant problem. It's quite a significant problem for our whole primary industry in New Zealand actually because at the end of the day the grower's always basically the price taker and so we end up with that being quite challenging. I don't know whether the Minister's got any comment to make on the fees and the way they might be set but it'd be really interesting if he did have and I'd be very keen to hear about that.But I think the bill from the experience I've had of the forestry industry is a good bill and it's logical that we should put it in place. It's just how we manage those costs that would concern me.Hon PEENI HENARE (Minister of Forestry): Kia ora and can I thank Mr McKelvie for that contribution. He always gives very meaningful contributions in this House alongside good commentary. I understand through the submissions some of those matters that have been raised and what I want to make clear to that member first off is that I share like many others in the sector the concern that a vast chunk of the value of what we're growing here in this country is being exported offshore. The member will have heard my question in the House today about our desire to process more of that here onshore which is going to be an important way that we can grow and develop and support the sector into the future. While we want to get more of the value chain out of forestry—I think that's something that we'll all agree on—it is important that we do that and that we do that with the sector as a whole. One of the key lines that was raised with me last week when I met with the Wood Processors Association is that if we continue to innovate in silos all we'll have is really innovative silos. So I take the member's point about looking towards making sure that the value actually is shared equally or at least distributed more equitably across the country as we look towards getting more out of that value chain.When it comes to the fees framework around the processing my understanding Mr McKelvie is that the cost to the owner of the forest is actually the compliance on being clear on exactly what it is that they're harvesting making sure that it fits with what's required in order to report on what is being harvested here. But look we also have a part of this particular bill that gives a little bit of time as we let some of these things sink in and I'm sure at some point in time when we look towards whether or not the fees framework for those assessors is fit for purpose into the future I'm certainly as the Minister of Forestry keen to make sure that that is and we'll continue to look towards making sure that we work with the sector on that.