Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 18 February 2014. Volume:696;Page:15977. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to thePrime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government’s policies?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Yes.Dr Russel Norman: Why does he stand by his climate change policies when official projections from his own Government show that under his climate change policies New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions will rise 50 percent in the next decade?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Because I believe them to be appropriate relative to what other countries in the world are doing.Dr Russel Norman: Does he consider that his Government’s climate policies are successful given that Ministry for the Environment projections show that our greenhouse emissions will increase 50 percent in the next decade?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I believe them to be appropriate. I think it is worth noting for the House that New Zealand’s emissions profile is considerably different from most other countries in the world. Over half of our emissions come from agricultural emissions. The Government is part of a global greenhouse gas alliance that is investing considerably to try to find scientific solutions to that. In relation to other parts of the economy that emit greenhouse gases one of the benefits of having a flexible approach to electricity for instance is that it will allow fossil fuels which currently make up 25 percent of electricity generation in New Zealand to be phased out rather than locked in. I note that the member’s policy in relation to that would do exactly that—lock in a poor-performing high-emitting plant like Huntly over and above a new renewable energy that could be brought on stream.Dr Russel Norman: So with regard to the Government’s electricity policies is he aware that according to the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment and hisown Government’s statistics—the forecast officially produced by his Government—his Government is not on target to meet its goal of 90 percent renewable generation by 2025?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well that is 11 years away. What I can say is that we have policies in place that are promoting renewable energies. We have also got significant policies to insulate homes. We have insulated over 320000 homes in the time that we have been in office including every State house that can be insulated. The Government has led the charge on this. I note that the Green Party wants to lock us into coal-fired power plants and I am surprised the Green Party wants to do that.Dr Russel Norman: Given that his Government’s climate policies are driving up New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions and his Government’s own projections show that they will not meet the 90 percent renewable electricity goals by 2025 will he support policies to turn this round including the Green Party’s solar homes policy which is designed to encourage the uptake of distributed renewable generation?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly I reject the premise of the member’s question. But in relation to solar energy I think there are a few things that would be important. The first is that the member actually needs to be upfront and honest with the New Zealand public and say that when there is a subsidy involved that involves one group of New Zealanders paying another. Secondly the member needs to read the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority website which makes it actually quite clear that “these systems will never pay for themselves”. He seems to also forget that solar energy is three times more expensive—Grant Robertson: So grumpy today!Rt Hon JOHN KEY: —than other renewable energies. Actually I am not grumpy. I hear your caucus did not go too well—Mr SPEAKER: Order!Dr Russel Norman: Why is he so opposed to the Green Party’s Solar Homes initiative which will cost the taxpayer virtually nothing and involves no subsidies from the taxpayer yet it will enable tens of thousands of ordinary Kiwi families to generate their own power reduce their power bills and be part of a clean energy future?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The good news is that this afternoon the member and I have found something we can agree on. He does deal in virtual dollars and that is virtually going to be the cost of the solar energy. If we go and have a look at the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority website let me quote for you: “As you will generally be selling excess electricity for significantly less than the retail price most grid-connected systems will never pay for themselves let alone reduce your energy bills or make you money.”; and “Since our grid electricity is very low carbon switching to solar for some of your electricity use won’t reduce your carbon emissions.”; or this fromConsumer which said at length “These things don’t stack up.” The fastest way to increase New Zealand’s renewable energies from the ordinary impressive 75 percent for instance would be to reform the Resource Management Act and allow new hydro new wind and potentially new geothermal capabilities to come online. Those members oppose that. What they want to do is for other taxpayers to subsidise another group to pay for electricity that is three times more expensive than the existing electricity that we can bring on stream. No wonder they want to get together with the Labour Party.Dr Russel Norman: How does he consider that his climate change policies are successful when as a result of his policies New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions according to the Ministry for the Environment will increase 50 percent in a decade? How is that a successful policy that he wants to keep continuing?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: What I said in answer to the question was that I believe that they are appropriate. But actually I appreciate the member raising this question in the House and I hope many New Zealanders will get to see this exchange today. I say that in all sincerity because the reason Dr Norman is raising this issue is he is making sure that New Zealanders are aware that under a Green-led Government there will be a significant increase in the emissions trading scheme and a significant increase in the cost to consumers. We have estimated that to be around about $500 a year per household. So New Zealanders who are looking at this exchange are under absolutely no illusion: if you want to do more in this space it will cost consumers and it will cost jobs. Now that we have sorted that out we can take that to the New Zealand public and see which one they want to vote for.Dr Russel Norman: What does the Prime Minister think will be the result if every country on the planet increases its net greenhouse gas emissions by 50 percent in the next decade which is what this Government is proposing? Does he understand that the result of that will be out of control human-caused climate change and that politicians like him will be responsible for the climate disaster that our children will inherit?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly I reject the premise of the question. Secondly let us make it quite clear: New Zealand has 0.2 percent of world emissions. So actually I do come from the school of thought that believes for New Zealand to make a difference it also requires those very big emitters around the world—China India the United States and others—to play their part. But as I said earlier—and here is where the rubber literally hits the road—the member is making it quite clear to New Zealanders today that if the Greens are part of a Labour Government there will be a significant increase in costs to consumers. That is fine to have as a policy but let us not shy away from this when we are on the campaign trail because Dr Norman what you are telling New Zealanders is that they will pay at least $500 a year—Mr SPEAKER: Order!Dr Russel Norman: The Prime Minister has disputed the claims so I seek leave to table the documents. There are two documents—Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table documents. I want a description of the documents and the sources.Dr Russel Norman: The first document is the projections on not achieving the 90 percent renewable by 2025—the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment paper—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That information is very easily available to members.Dr Russel Norman: Well apparently not to the Prime—Mr SPEAKER: Order!Dr Russel Norman: So the other disputed fact—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can the member resume his seat. [Interruption] Order! If the member wants to seek leave to table a document he needs to rise to his feet and without adding any other words describe the document and then the source and I will consider whether it is worthy to put the leave to the House.Dr Russel Norman: I seek to leave—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! And secondly any point of order will be heard in silence.Dr Russel Norman: I seek leave to table the table on page 60 of the Ministry for the Environment’s report—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I do not need to hear any more. Again that information is freely available.