Stewart Barbara: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Stewart Barbara: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:639;Page:9117] 
1. BARBARA STEWART (NZ First) 
 to the  
Associate Minister for Senior Citizens 
: Has he received any recent reports regarding the potential future use of microchip technology in the SuperGold card for seniors due for release in August? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I understand that that the answer will be longer— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: No that is the next one. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The next one—that is all right. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Oh! What have you cooked up? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: We know it is the next question because the questioner is entitled to two questions. Has the member got it? He has been here a long time; he should know that. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would members be seated for a second please. I raised that matter because this House can run in an orderly fashion only if people are aware of what is happening. So I ask members when one is trying to be helpful and to assist the House not to express themselves in the way they did. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I appreciate that. In the interests of the running of the House maybe with leave Mr Peters could ask the question himself and then answer it. That would help enormously. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order and it is close to bringing the House into disorder. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Are we to understand that the Minister has come to you and said that the answer to the first supplementary question will be longer than expected? That would be most unusual. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: What happens as the member well knows is that as a measure of courtesy to the Speaker those who are replying to questions from time to time indicate that the answers are going to be long so that they are not interrupted. The member who is asking the question in fact indicated that to my office and whether it was in relation to the main question or the supplementary question is irrelevant. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Associate Minister for Senior Citizens) 
: 
 I was asked as to recent reports on microchip technology in respect of the SuperGold card. My answer is yes. I have seen hysterical reports that make all sorts of fanciful claims about what might occur if microchip technology were to be adopted as part of the SuperGold card for seniors. Those reports are not only negligent for scaremongering over an extremely positive measure for our seniors but are ignorant of both the facts and the processes involved. This is not a sci-fi fantasy or  
Dancing with the Stars. 
 It is real life. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Can the Minister allay the fears of our seniors in relation to any future use of microchip technology? 
Rodney Hide 
: Is this the long one or the short one? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Well we know what the short one is. Yes I can—for three very simple reasons. First any move towards microchip technology would involve a thorough review by both the Privacy Commissioner and the State Services Commission. Microchip technology is not being slipped in secretly in the dead of night. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Are they the same microchips as for dogs? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: In the member’s case yes. Second for the past 2 years all New Zealand passports have used microchip technology which has safeguards to protect the privacy and integrity of the information the microchips store. Microchip technology is used for the security passes that all members of Parliament use for their own personal security. But some members would now deny that security to the elderly of this country. The third thing I want to say is that microchip technology will be replacing magnetic strip and barcode technology in the near future across a range of industries. If the SuperGold card is to be functional in the future it will require this technology after all the necessary checks have been made by the Privacy Commissioner and others. I conclude by saying that we have no desire to see information relating to our seniors be abused or misused. We want the strongest protections possible to ensure that that does not happen. In short the checks are already in place and will be utilised to protect the integrity of the card. 
Judy Turner 
: Does the Minister understand the concerns expressed by MMP parties in this Parliament that the use of microchip technology by Government departments should be given wider consideration by organisations such as the Law Commission and the Privacy Commissioner before being introduced on an ad hoc basis into legislation such as the SuperGold card? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I understand what the member is asking. By way of further explanation my answer is yes. But in terms of the timing for this introduction—it being a long way into the future— 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: You opposed it for drivers’ licences. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Opposed what? 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: The microchip. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: No I did not. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Yes you did. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Oh no I did not. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Yes you did. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: No sorry! That member came back from Queenstown having seen the local bodies at the local body conference and told us all that they were all for this technology which would have had the certain outcome of six companies owning all the roads in New Zealand. That is why I opposed it. I am just putting the facts on the table. 
Hon David Carter 
: Chipmunk! 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I say to that member he should look in the mirror and tell me who looks like a chipmunk. He is not saying very much now. I tell the United Future member that I understand her concerns. That is why I wrote to the Law Society to say that its first impression was correct and that its codicil or rider to its submissions was grossly incorrect and negligent on its part. I am still waiting for a reply from the Law Society—the august group with which I have some familiarity. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Will the card have microchips in it when it is launched in August? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: No it will not. The clause relating to microchips is aimed at future-proofing the card for the time when magnetic strips and barcode technology become redundant. With the banks and retailers moving towards microchip technology as we speak we need to ensure that seniors do not miss out on the full range of commercial discounts that will become available in the future. As I say again the privacy and sanctity of people’s private lives is something that is foremost in the minds of members of my party and of the Government at this point in time and the fear and scaremongering by some members is blatantly just that. It is without any substance whatsoever. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: When can seniors such as the members of Napier’s Grey Power look forward to receiving their SuperGold card? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: As noted earlier seniors such as Grey Power members and the former leader of the National Party— 
Darren Hughes 
: Which one? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Well I will receive the card when I turn 65—a very long time away from now as is obvious. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Is the Minister saying he is not yet 65? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Oh well who has lost his hair—or rather grown through it? These cards will be launched in August. In addition to the range of Government benefits on offer the Ministry of Social Development currently has a team negotiating with commercial entities to provide a range of discounts. I urge members please to let the elderly know what is coming because it is all good news. I ask members over there to be quiet for a little while as I explain what will happen in August. The Ministry of Social Development currently has a team negotiating with commercial entities to provide a range of discounts. Although we cannot name names at this stage due to commercial sensitivities I can say that we are confident of a range of significant commercial discounts. 
Judith Collins 
: When New Zealanders refused to support the microchipping of dogs why does the Minister now want to microchip our seniors for a discount card? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: You know people would think that someone who got herself ensconced in the gambling industry prior to coming here to Parliament would know something about technology would they not? They would think she might know about it. People will not have a microchip in a personal sense other than to carry it—which many do now with their passports and as that member does right now to ensure her security in this Parliament. Some would wonder why but she does have it. To make the kind of claim that the microchip will somehow be inside a person is false and irresponsible but is becoming unfortunately typical of the member. 
Keith Locke 
: To reassure Judith Collins would the Minister agree that he would intend to microchip only dangerous and menacing pensioners; and would the comparison the Minister makes between the passport microchips and the microchips on the SuperGold cards cause concern to those pensioners because the passport microchips have facial recognition data on them? Is this microchipping perhaps the thin end of the wedge to the use of such technology on Government-issued ID cards and should he not wait for a Government inquiry before legislating for its implementation? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: There are several questions there. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I get the gist of what the member is saying. Let me just say there was once a time in this country when the hard left could claim validly to have some concern for the poor and less well-off in our society. That member has demonstrated he has long abandoned that cause in a political sense. To stand here and make ridiculous claims and to laugh at something that has been discussed with the elderly as being a long-range benefit to them is to—[ 
Interruption 
]—no—to own up to where things have got with the Green Party. Those members would rather rush around protecting worms and snails than look after the elderly 540000 of whom live in this country. 
 Dr Nick Smith 
: Is the Minister aware that officials advised the select committee that the microchip technology was not needed for the SuperGold card and that they did not know what specific purposes it might be used for but that they might like it at some time in the future; and is it not appropriate for Parliament to consider legislation for that microchipping when we actually know what the reason for it is rather than give officials a blank cheque for the future through which to collect data on our superannuitants? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: There are many future developments that the elderly of this country will wish to avail themselves of and they will hope that the politicians of this country have been modern enough in their approach to prepare the policies and provisions for them well in advance. 
Hon Member 
: Such as? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Such as? As we speak all the banks are moving to use microchips. I do not recall any of those members saying anything about the banks doing that. The passports of this country have a microchip now. I do not recall one member protesting about that. But of course for some cheap political advantage—which they will never get because the elderly are wise to them—those members are prepared to get up and make some claim that we are microchipping the elderly when clearly we are not. The most important part about this technology is that we will not go any further with it until the Privacy Commissioner the State Services Commissioner and the elderly are happy with this advance. But why would we want to waste years getting legislation through Parliament when we know now that the commercial world is moving rapidly to that state of affairs? 
Heather Roy 
: In light of that answer is the Minister aware that Ministry of Social Development officials advised the Social Services Committee that deleting the provision for microchips would have “no immediate consequences for the launch and implementation of the SuperGold card”; why is his adviser Damian Edwards telling senior citizens in the  
New Zealand Herald  
today that this card has to have the microchip in order to be functional and why is the microchip being foisted on our old people with a lie? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Because my office sought to respond to misinformation purveyed by that member. That member knows full well that we have referred to a whole range of future benefits many of which will not be able to be otherwise obtained from various service sectors or industries because those industries have microchip technology. We have to likewise have that technology available in the long term. Most important we are doing something not just for tomorrow but for the next 10 20 50 and 100 years. That is a fact. In discussion with my officials I have asked them to ensure that we do not just take steps now that will see us having to rush back to Parliament possibly by December of this year to fix the matter up. Let me just say to National members that as they have demonstrably let the old people down I think they should retire fly a white flag and quit while they are behind. 
Rodney Hide 
: That was a very very long reply but the question was actually about why this microchip is being foisted on old people with a lie—because that is what is happening here. The microchip is not needed for the launch of the card. I am sure the Minister would like to respond to the question of why his office is lying to old people. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I overlook the obvious defamation and insult from that member—he is known for it. The fact is that my office responded to misinformation that was being purveyed by Heather Roy MP. I told her that in my answer and the second thing is that I pointed out why the microchip needed to be considered now. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I listened very carefully and the Minister certainly addressed the question. 
Heather Roy 
: I seek leave of the House to table the article from this morning’s  
New Zealand Herald  
where it is reported that Mr Peters’ office told senior citizens that this card needed a microchip. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Heather Roy 
: I seek leave of the House to table the select committee report where the Ministry of Social Development officials said that this card did not need a microchip. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Keith Locke 
: I seek leave to table the New Zealand Law Society’s submission to the select committee on the bill which talks about— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I want to make it very clear—because this may help the future working of the House—that we are objecting to the tabling of the documents because the information is readily publicly available. This should be a privilege. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is a matter of debate and there have been plenty of opportunities to discuss that.