Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 17 October 2012. Volume:684;Page:5886. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
6. 
METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his statement in response to a question about whether he will support my Income Tax (Universalisation of In-work Tax Credit) Amendment Bill that “she wants to give the same millionaires yet more money to raise their kids”? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 I stand by my full statement which made reference to the member’s support in general for a universal child payment. That full statement in relation to children living in difficult circumstances was: “This Government spends a huge amount of time money and energy focused on those young New Zealanders and on trying to give them help. If the member thinks that that will be resolved without giving them a decent education—because she does not support all the measures that this Government has taken to lift education standards—then she is dreaming. If the member thinks that that can be achieved by a universal payment as I said to the member some time ago she comes into this House and she bags the Government because she argues that we have people who are well off and then she wants to give the same millionaires yet more money to raise their kids.” 
Metiria Turei 
: Is the Prime Minister aware that my bill is an opportunity to lift 100000 children out of poverty but would have no effect at all on millionaires and the rich who would remain ineligible for the in-work tax credit just as they are now? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Yes broadly I am aware of it although I am also advised that if the in-work tax credit equivalent was paid to beneficiary families it would cost more than $1.5 billion over 4 years. I do not know the financial costs of the member’s payment. 
Metiria Turei 
: Is he aware that one of the key goals of the Working for Families package when it was established was to lift incomes “for families with dependent children … as a means of tackling child poverty;” and does he think that it is fair for the poorest children in New Zealand to continue to be excluded from that goal? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: In answer to the first part of the question yes but in terms of the second part of the question the member should be aware—or is aware—that in fact benefit-based households receive Working for Families. What they do not receive is the in-work tax credit. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does he think that it is fair to deny this little bit of extra financial support to the 36 percent of Maori children who live in benefit-reliant households and who do not get access to the in-work tax credit even where their parents also work? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I cannot comment on the last bit because it is subject to everybody’s household depending on whether they get the in-work tax credit or not because if their income is high enough then it is abated. But in principle the in-work tax credit when it was designed by a Labour Government was to make sure that there was always a differential between working and welfare. And the reason for that and rightfully so when Michael Cullen put that scheme together was that he wanted to make sure there was an incentive for people to move off benefits into work. He was right to do that because quite a lot of research indicates that the fastest way to lift poor households that have children in poverty out of that poverty situation is through work. In fact the Children’s Commissioner’s expert group said this: “Research indicates that a parent obtaining full-time paid employment is the most important event to lift children out of poverty.” If the member wants to lift those children out of poverty may I suggest she work and focus on getting their families into work. 
Metiria Turei 
: Is it fair that because Maori joblessness has grown by 80 percent under his Government thousands of Maori children have lost access to the in-work tax credit as a direct consequence of his Government’s economic failures? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I refute the last point. Firstly this is a Government where growth has been 1.6 percent for the first half of this year where 57000 jobs have been created in the last 2 years and where we are growing faster than most other OECD countries. Secondly what is true is that if somebody is in work and then loses their job they will lose the in-work tax credit. But I would also hasten to add that if someone then takes a part-time job even for 20 hours or more to the best of my memory they then get the in-work tax credit back. So therefore I think that is a pretty good scheme. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Prime Minister not understand even the existing policy which says that whether they work 20 hours or not if they also are in receipt of a benefit or a student allowance or superannuation they are not eligible for the in-work tax credit because they receive a means-tested benefit and that is the discrimination that has been found to exist that traps—locks—100000 children or more into poverty because he does not even understand his own policy? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I do but what the member is arguing is that someone should get an in-work tax credit when they are on a benefit. What you cannot do is get both. What currently happens though is that everybody under a certain income level gets Working for Families. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Prime Minister accept that children are actually going hungry in this country and that their parents do not have enough money to feed them or to accommodate them in warm dry homes and will he help thousands of these children today by supporting a simple pragmatic bill to extend the support that is given to other children to those who need it the very most? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: In answer to the last part of the member’s question no we will not be supporting the bill. In terms of whether there are some children in New Zealand in very poor conditions the answer to that is yes but then I think we also need to take a step back and say that the Government does a huge range of things including making sure there is universal provision of welfare support. There is emergency or hardship support there is State housing provided there are accommodation supplements and there are many other provisions of support from the Government to those who are in the worst scenario. I say to the member that this is a Government that is working hard to address those issues with all sorts of things from insulation of homes to trying to get rid of rheumatic fever. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Prime Minister think that the Children’s Commissioner’s Expert Advisory Group on Solutions to Child Poverty the Child Poverty Action Group the Every Child Counts coalition of community organisations and other experts are wrong to conclude that my bill would make a real difference to the poverty suffered by thousands of New Zealand children every day? Are they all wrong? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Around 60 percent of kids who are living in poverty are in benefit-dependent households. That is why to quote her the Children’s Commissioner’s expert group—the very group she just quoted—said and I quote this again “Research indicates that a parent obtaining full-time paid employment is the most important event to lift children out of poverty.”