Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 21 August 2012. Volume:683;Page:4540. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
5. 
JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development 
: Does she stand by all of her statements? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development) 
: 
 Yes although I do have a tendency to get a little over-exuberant at times as Mr Speaker you witnessed last week. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Has she shared with the Prime Minister her statement as quoted in the media that she could in future release the personal details of those who receive Government support “depending on the circumstances”; if so what was his response? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I spoke to the Prime Minister on Sunday on a range of issues to do with my portfolio and it came up in that conversation. He sort of asked me to catch him up on what had been happening last week and I said to him that I have not disclosed any further information in the last 3 years I do not intend on doing it next week and I do not intend on doing it next month but I cannot give a guarantee around every circumstance. It is what I said last week it is what I said on Sunday to him and it is what I still say today. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Does she agree with the Prime Minister’s position as outlined to the media that her release of the private information of two individuals on Government support was wrong? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I have actually read the Prime Minister’s transcript from yesterday and that is not what he said. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Did the Prime Minister ask her not to share the private information of people on Government support in the future? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Absolutely not. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I call Jacinda Ardern—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! I want to hear Jacinda Ardern. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Did the Prime Minister express to her in their discussion that he agreed with her actions in releasing the information of two individuals on Government support? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I think I have reiterated to the best of my ability the conversation I had with the Prime Minister on Sunday. I understand that those members are trying to get some great conspiracy theory but it was quite straightforward. We were merely having quite a catch-up. He asked me to tell him about— 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: He just ticked you off. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: No I never got a telling off. I know what a telling off looks like after last week and it certainly was nothing like that. It was actually quite clear that we were having a conversation about what was going on. I said to him as I am happy to reiterate to you that I have not disclosed information in the last 3 years since then I do not intend on doing it next week I do not intend on doing it next month but I just cannot give every permutation of circumstances that might come up and give an absolute guarantee that nothing might happen. He simply accepted that and I think reiterated that yesterday at his press conference. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: During her catch-up with the Prime Minister did he agree with her that children move in and out of poverty on a daily basis? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Like me the Prime Minister would have seen the Treasury report that does a descriptive analysis of income and deprivation. He would have seen that from 2002 to 2009 only 24 percent of people stayed in the lowest income deprivation—that 76 percent actually moved. I can quote from it if it would help the member: “The mobility is both up and down though there is more for the bottom deciles than the top deciles—only 24% of those in the bottom decile in 2002 were also there in 2009” showing that more than 75 percent actually move around. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does she accept that her statement that she reserves the right to go to the files and release the private information of people who disagree with her can have a chilling effect on free speech in a democratic society? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: See I do not think that information was disclosed simply because someone disagreed with me. I am not going to reiterate yet again what happened at that point but by no means is that my interpretation. In my letter I made the point that people should be free to speak in this country and that I support democracy. I stand by that with every inch of what I have got. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Can she confirm that the Treasury report she has quoted indicated movement between low income and poverty on a daily or a yearly basis? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I think it is quite clear that people move whether it be on a particular day or on an annual basis. What you have is mobility of income. I think what the member does not get is that we on this side are not deciding whether we dream up another measure of poverty whether it is 10 percent or 20 percent— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a very direct question about the specific Treasury report from which the Minister was quoting. We have not had even an attempt to respond to that yet. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well with respect I believe the Minister did answer it. She argued that the Treasury report indicates that children can move on a given day over a year or whatever. That is how the Minister answered the question. The question asked whether the report showed children could move on a daily basis and it seems to be the Minister’s interpretation from her answer that she believes it does. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was about the Treasury report and the response was either—I cannot remember her words—“I believe” or “we believe”. It had nothing to do with what was in the report. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Oh no no. The Minister if I recollect correctly did refer to the Treasury report in answering the question. It is a matter it would seem of interpretation of the Treasury report. I cannot judge that but I have to take the Minister at her word. She said the Treasury report indicates children moving on different bases. It could be moving on any day or over the course of a year and I cannot— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was quoting from a report. So that we can confirm it is the same report we have I request that it be tabled. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I would like to finish my answer. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I think the Minister probably answered sufficiently and I have got to ask her whether she was quoting from an official document. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I am happy to— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well it is a matter of whether the Minister was quoting from an official document. It has been requested that it be tabled and it has to be if it is an official document. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I can table it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister is confirming she will table it. I thank the Minister. 









Document laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I seek leave to table not just that Treasury report which I am happy to do but also the  
Dynamics of Income and Deprivation in New Zealand 2002 
-2009 
. This is a descriptive analysis. This is actually the information from Otago University that Treasury has got the information from. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: For the second document—leave is required to table the second document. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. A Minister can table a document at any time. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I beg your pardon. I need to seek advice on this because my understanding is not consistent with that. I apologise to the member but in fact Ministers cannot automatically table documents after 1 p.m. on any given sitting day. The Minister is required to table the first document the Treasury document because that was an official document and another member of the House sought that that be tabled. So the Minister is required to table that one. With regard to the second document the Minister mentioned the one from the university—research work—leave needs to be sought to table that one. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: It’s on the internet. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well I will put it to the House. Is there any objection? There is objection on the second document. There is objection.