Ardern Shane: Taxation (Annual Rates Venture Capital and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — In Committee 
Ardern Shane: Taxation (Annual Rates Venture Capital and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:16587] 
SHANE ARDERN (National—Taranaki-King Country) 
: 
 There have been some interesting contributions. Like the other speakers I am pleased that sitting in the chair is the Minister who might have some relevance to the bill Michael Cullen. If there are some questions we might expect some answers. There has been no evidence so far that that is likely to happen but we might expect some answers. 
I note with a great deal of interest that this legislation has suddenly appeared on the scene as a result of some recent political events. Given some of the assertions that have been made by senior members in the Chamber tonight will the Minister take a call and absolutely deny that there is anything in this part that in any way would help to mitigate the problem that John Tamihere finds himself in? The Minister could easily rule that out. He could easily take a call and say: “Look you are all wrong. There is nothing in here that in any way will influence the outcome as far as John Tamihere is concerned.” Have we had a single peep on that? Not a word! 
I say to the Minister that we are looking yet again at another 212 pages of regulation on what the Government should or should not do in our lives. Can I also say that when we wander around the galleries in this place we see huge rows of books of legislation. I asked the Hon Richard Prebble how many volumes of  
Hansard 
 he has acquired in his time in Parliament. Just think about that—a huge room full of books. The only place I have been recently where I have seen that number of books or a number of pieces of information that would match what we see in this place is my accountant’s office. Members should go to modern accountants’ offices today and have a look at the amount of legislative requirements they have to read through have a look at the amount of tax law they have on their premises at any one time—that is even allowing for digital information; for computers which can store massive amounts of information—and ask them why they go to the expense of having all that information at their fingertips. 
I ask the Minister in the chair the Hon Michael Cullen the Minister of Finance how this bill will help to achieve the goals set down by his Prime Minister in her Address in Reply when she said that this Government is pro-growth. How will it help? That is an easy question for the Minister to answer. He might be able to find some obscure clause in Part 3 that may reduce costs. I do not know where it is; I cannot see where it is. But there is a simple question for the Minister: why do we have to have this level of bureaucratic nonsense dished out over and over again when a flatter tax rate would deal with most of the problems he is trying to overcome in this bill? Why do we have to have so many layers of bureaucratic nonsense when it comes to taxation? 
I have a simple question for the Minister which takes a yes or no answer: has he ever paid PAYE on behalf of an employee in his own right as a businessman? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Yes. 
SHANE ARDERN 
: The Minister says yes. I am heartened by that. It must have been a mighty long time ago; I know he has been in this place for a long time. I am heartened by that because if I had had to guess I would have said no but maybe the Minister can clear that up. There are a large number of us in this Chamber who do pay PAYE on behalf of our employees on a regular basis like every month. If we do not if we get it wrong somewhere in this part there will be a heavy hammer that comes down on us with 20-plus percent penalties which compound from the point when we do not get it right. 
I ask the Minister how that helps simplify the tax system. My colleague who was on the Finance and Expenditure Committee said that the debate that took place around Part 3 was about trying to simplify the system. I cannot for the life of me see how Part 3 will simplify it. It certainly does not simplify the PAYE system. I know that my colleague the Hon Lockwood Smith certainly pays PAYE on behalf of his employees on a monthly basis and knows what a convoluted mind-boggling process that is. Let me tell the Minister that even if one does not employ somebody for a couple of months or 3 months one still has to fill in a PAYE IR66 form every month.