Hague Kevin: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hague Kevin: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 11 August 2011. Volume:674;Page:20550. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
2. 
KEVIN HAGUE (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Labour 
: Does she still agree as she did on 13 July 2011 with the comment made by Rt Hon John Key on 22 November 2010 that “I have no reason to believe that New Zealand safety standards are any less than Australia’s and in fact our safety record for the most part has been very good”? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON (Minister of Labour) 
: 
 Yes I agree with the Prime Minister. Further to that we have established a royal commission of inquiry to investigate all matters relating to Pike River. We have specifically asked the commission to compare New Zealand’s regulatory provisions with those used in other countries. 
Kevin Hague 
: Did she agree with the 15 out of 17 submitters on the Department of Labour’s 2008 discussion paper  
Improving health and safety hazard management in the underground mining industry 
 who considered that there were real problems requiring change; submitters that included Pike River Coal which drew attention to the inadequacy of New Zealand mine safety regulations and the woeful state of the mines inspectorate? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: I took advice from that report from my department and I accepted the recommendations where appropriate. Can I say in relation to Pike River that it was a serious serious tragedy that affects our nation but there is no determination yet as to whether the tragedy was a consequence of operational and/or regulatory failure. The commission has been given the job of determining that and I expect it to do so. 
Kevin Hague 
: Does the Minister recall that her Workplace Health and Safety Council heard evidence prior to the Pike River disaster from Peter Whittall representing the Business Leaders’ Health and Safety Forum that raised significant concerns about the regulatory framework for mining health and safety specifically in comparison with Australia’s? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: I recall that the issue of the qualification of mining experts and mining employees was raised and that is why we introduced a regulation to address it. 
Kevin Hague 
: Why does she maintain that she has no reason to believe that our standards are any less than Australia’s given the repeated warnings from the Workplace Health and Safety Council the submissions from virtually the entire industry to the Department of Labour and the warnings from mine safety experts about the inadequacy of New Zealand mine safety standards? Are they all wrong? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: We do take advice. We have set up the royal commission of inquiry. That commission of inquiry will be looking at and has been looking at the regulatory framework around our mining industry and we will be taking those determinations and recommendations when they are out very very seriously. Like all New Zealanders we want to make sure that a tragedy such as Pike River does not happen again. 
Kevin Hague 
: What engagement was so important that she failed to attend the Workplace Health and Safety Council meeting on 16 December 2010 the first such meeting since the Pike River disaster? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: I do try to attend all of those council meetings but I believe that on that occasion I was in Kaiapoi attending to some earthquake-related issues. That also was a national tragedy. 
Kevin Hague 
: Were any concerns raised with her or her department about the safety of the Pike River coal mine prior to the disaster there in November last year? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: As I have explained some concerns were raised about the qualifications of mine managers and we did address that by regulation subsequently. 
Kevin Hague 
: Given the wealth of evidence that has emerged since the disaster about the lack of safety in the Pike River mine such as inadequate gas drainage drilling next to cavities filled with pressurised flammable gases the answerphone issue I told the House about previously and the inadequate provision for escape from the mine does she now agree that the system of regulations and inspections must have been fundamentally broken for the situation to have arisen for her not to have heard about it and for absolutely no corrective action to be taken? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: The royal commission of inquiry has not yet made any determination on any of those evidential issues and I will wait until it does before we address the situation. As I said we are very serious about making sure that mining is safe in New Zealand. We do not want another tragedy like Pike River but we do want to know what happened why it happened and what we can do to prevent it from happening in the future. 
Kevin Hague 
: I seek leave to table the minutes from the Workplace Health and Safety Council meeting no. 14 from Wednesday 16 December 2010—the meeting immediately after the Pike River disaster. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: What is the role of the mines inspectorate given her statement in a response to me that it is “not to conduct a top-down audit of safety”; and given the other advice that the Department of Labour gives to its inspectors—that is not to advise mine owners on how they should mine for fear of legal liability—what indeed did she expect the mines inspectorate to do? 
Hon Phil Heatley 
: The same you did when you were in Government. 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: Exactly; the same as what the member’s Labour Government expected of the mines inspectorate when it was in Government. Can I say that we must not forget that the primary responsibility for workplace safety in a workplace lies with the employer. That is how it was set out in the Health and Safety in Employment Act several years ago. The Act was amended twice by the Labour Government and it never at that stage addressed the test nor suggested that the test was inappropriate. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: Given advice to the Minister 18 months prior that “a plan needs to be developed for how inspectors will be trained and supported in professional expertise in the next 8 months” has a plan been developed; if not why not? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: As I have advised we are taking a close look at the resources and expertise in the department to ensure it can carry out its role of overseeing the mining sector. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: Does the Minister consider that one solitary mines inspector is sufficient to uphold proper safety for miners in the hundreds of mines throughout New Zealand; if not why is she not doing something about it? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: No I do not think that one inspector is sufficient but actually at the time of Pike River we had two mine inspectors. Subsequent to that one of our mines inspectors was poached by the Queensland mining industry because it wanted his expertise. Can I also say that the number of mining inspectors was not increased under Labour and we are actively looking at the resources of our department. 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: I seek leave to table a page from the transcript from Michael Firmin the Chief Inspector of Mines who states quite clearly— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The transcript of what? 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: The royal commission. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The current royal commission? 
Hon Damien O’Connor 
: Where he states quite clearly that no plan has been developed to train and support the professional expertise of mines inspectors. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection? I want to be clear: there is objection is there? There is objection. 
Hon Rick Barker 
: Will the Minister accept that practical professional miners who work underground and face the consequences of actions must have the right to be directly involved in all safety issues or will the Government continue with its current law of making all safety decisions the sole preserve of managers who work safely at the surface? 
Hon KATE WILKINSON 
: I accept that employee participation is very important in ensuring a good workplace safety culture in any workplace and that is why we have work progressing on that matter.