Wade-Brown Celia; Henare Peeni; Brown SimeonCELIA WADE-BROWN (Green): Thank you Mr Chair I've got a number of questions. I'd like to start with asking the Minister to consider in the briefing to incoming Minister of Local Government it was pretty clear that the Minister has some responsibility for Māori / council relationships and I wonder if he could address how putting an effective veto on the introduction of Māori wards addresses that ministerial responsibility when we can see that taking us backwards with an effective veto on Māori wards is acknowledged by the Department of Internal Affairs—it's been acknowledged by the vast majority of mayors and chairs and Māori councillors—how he thinks he is actually taking that responsibility seriously. I also wonder whether he shares the view of at least one of his party colleagues where when standing up as tangata Tiriti that seemed to be some strange view that it was only for Māori to advocate for Māori rather than actually being an ally and a partner and working together—tangata Tiriti and tangata whenua. I have to say I hope that the Minister of Local Government will reflect on that hopefully unthought through; a little bit of heckling yesterday. I do have some more questions particularly about the competency of local government to consult but I will come back if I may to those. Hon PEENI HENARE (Labour): Thank you very much Mr Chair and I was thinking about some of the singling out of Māori and in particular in this bill and today in the House I want to reflect on a contribution during question time that was quoting the Far North district mayor about insulation. Well the Far North district mayor presented and that council presented to the select committee on this particular bill and made it very clear that actually what's happening in Te Tai Tokerau is already working really well with Māori wards and the members who are on that council. So the questions that I have for the Minister is—one of them might seem pretty straightforward and pretty simple. As I read through the bill it's quite easy to get lost on some of the dates and I'd really like the Minister to explain why some of those dates were chosen for the public who are listening to this debate and trust me there is a lot of interest in this debate; it was reflected in the submissions on this bill. Of course that's been complicated again by the recent election in Tauranga the local body elections in Tauranga which have then changed it and meant that there's a different rule for them and now there's going to be a slightly different rule for the other councils again. So I think it would be really good for the Minister to get up in the House here today spell it out very clear about the dates for all of the councils as well as Tauranga given their recent election. That's the first question. The second question I have Mr. Chair is—as it says here in the bill—the need for notification that any council that wishes to go towards a referendum must notify the electorate if you will by a certain date and give a certain period of time. I wonder—and this is an offer to the Minister while he might be hell bent on getting rid of Māori wards—if in his exchange and his commitment to engagement with the community he might look towards whether or not notifications in te reo Māori might be accepted; notifications that engage with the community that this directly affects. Whether or not there is any indication because I don't see it in this particular bill to actually reach those who this is impacting the most and that is the Māori community. So that's perhaps an offer there for the Minister with his considerations to enable that kind of engagement seeing as he's hell bent on getting rid of them. And it's pretty simple; it is talking about whether it's in te reo Māori whether it's on the marae. The other challenge with that too if I think about the great city that the Minister and I live in he might recall the recent referendum that was done on Māori wards at the beginning of this year in Tāmaki Makaurau and he'll understand just exactly how hard it was to engage right across such a big city. You know when those who aren't from Auckland think about Tāmaki Makaurau they generally think about the city—maybe a little bit out east maybe a little bit out south—but they don't know or realise that it goes almost all the way to the Kaipara it goes all the way to the Hunua Ranges east to west and it's a huge area very interesting demographics. So I wonder if with respect to the Auckland super-city whether or not there might be another engagement plan and given that they've had their referendum at the beginning of this year whether or not the Minister is intending for them to hold one again. And that's a genuine question to the Minister about this particular bill as it encourages or pushes gives them an option—I think I heard the Minister's words were in his contribution after the dinner break—to either rescind or gives them an option to go to a referendum. So I wonder if the Minister has any plans on that. Just the final question from me: when I think about the way that a regional council works and the way that perhaps the Far North District Council or even the Whangārei council and then you've got the regional Northland Regional Council—which covers a very very large area—I wonder when as this bill spells out the time frames with which they must engage the time frames within which they must hold their referendum I wonder if the Minister has given enough consideration to just the sheer geography and the challenge and the difference between a regional council and a district—now Whangārei District Council I get that; Whangārei's reasonably small enough manageable enough perhaps—Hūhana Lyndon: Big big as massive.Hon PEENI HENARE: —although I'm sure my colleague here Hūhana Lyndon will argue and she's right if you go out to places like where her and I are from—Pipiwai Ngātiwai—it's really hard to get there. But I wonder just in the final 10 seconds Mr Chair if the Minister wouldn't mind putting his thought and his energy towards answering those questions. Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government): Thank you Mr Chair and I thank the members for their questions. Her Worship asked regarding the briefing to the incoming Minister which I received. And of course there's obligations within the Local Government Act for local government to engage with Māori; that is in the Local Government Act. That principle remains; that's not being changed by this legislation. Questions in regards to the Treaty obligations; this doesn't change any Treaty obligations. Ultimately this is about the representation arrangements and the ability of local communities to be able to have their say in relation to those representation arrangements. There were questions around the dates and the reasoning for that which I think is a fair question. The issue in regards to Tauranga of course is that they were having their election prior to this bill going through the House. And so the issue there is that they won't have the opportunity to have obviously a referendum at the election next year in 2025 because they won't be having an election next year in 2025. So there's specific provisions in relation to Tauranga there. The decision was made by Cabinet to hold the referendums at the same time as the next local election to ensure that the costs were reduced for local councils. That means they could hold them at the same time and the implementation therefore comes into effect from 2028. That was the choice that Cabinet made in relation to the time frames. In terms of Auckland there wasn't a referendum early in the year. The council did make a decision not to proceed with establishing a Māori ward. They made that decision I think in October or November last year. That was a decision made by the council not to proceed with a Māori ward. Then in terms of referendums and the process of undertaking a referendum there's already good established protocol in place in relation to the running of elections through the local government legislation as well and by timing it with the local government elections that means there's obviously an information campaign which will go alongside the local government postal ballot. So by doing it together it reduces cost but it also means that those communication campaigns can be utilised to do both of these things.