Collins JudithHon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura): Oh Mr Speaker I hate to be a Negative Nelly on this but this is a stupid bill. There's no reason to have it. I mean the speaker who's just resumed her seat Ms White—a really nice person. Pleasant. Travelled on a trip with us recently in Europe—Dr Duncan Webb: That's what her colleagues say about her.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: —as did the current chief whip. Yeah lovely—lovely. Very nice person. Anyway it's not the point. I'm here to talk about this bill. What a dumb bill. Really dumb. OK so she gave an example of a bank person a bank manager a bank's you know manager of some form saying that you might like to buy this insurance. OK all right imbalance of power—maybe. How about this: you also have to disclose that you're getting paid a commission. And that's the thing: the bank manager still has to say that because we've had an Act part of our laws since I think from memory just around about the time of the First World War. I mean even longer than Winston Peters has been alive. It's called the Secret Commissions Act and I would have thought that she as a lawyer would have known that. So that's already there so you're not actually allowed to take commissions without disclosing it to the person who's paying the bills. So I think it's pretty much covered.The other thing is: it's just more regulation isn't it? We've got people here: You have to act like this you have to act like that." Right at the moment this country is full of Kiwis who are wondering how they're going to pay their mortgage but it's great to know that they're going to be protected by this Government! Well it's not going to protect them. The costs of actually being a financial institution have gone through the roof. They're increasing. We've seen it as Mr Stuart Smith alluded to—we've seen it with ill-thought-through—actually not thought through but well-intentioned legislation that actually meant that a whole lot of New Zealanders missed out on getting loans when they could for their first home.So we have a situation where yet again this Government thinks it knows best. It thinks it knows best about financial markets. It knows best about what institutions should be doing. These are actually the institutions who are currently taking in money lending money helping people through their business situations helping them to buy a house helping them to retain their home as they're stretched and trying to pay for their increased mortgages. And this Government wants to add more cost to them and to say to them "We don't trust you; you're bad. You lend money. You lend money for profit." Well I can't think of anybody except volunteers who go to work except for profit. It's called a salary a wage or else it's a profit. And the member who resumed her seat she was an employment lawyer she says. I presume she went to work and she made some profit. What made profit off the unions or the poor people who paid the union fees? The fact is is that profit means taxes as well. It means there's a reason to go to work other than the joy and the bliss that we get from it. There is some point. It means that there is some profit to buy the groceries there's some profit to pay the mortgage there's some profit to do so. Banks are not just evil because they make a profit. Without banks what is there? What do we go back to? Bartering? Are we going to barter a parsnip for a carrot? I mean is this where we're going to end up in this Government if it gets its way? It already seems to be focused on banning tobacco but allowing cannabis. So the whole country must be looking at this wondering.Right at the moment there's a whole lot of New Zealanders in a financial bind. There's a whole lot of Kiwis who finally got their first home and now they've got a mortgage rate that they can't afford. And the value of their home has gone down not up around 80 percent of what it was 88 percent of what it was when they bought their home earlier this year. And this Government's answer is to put more cost on to their mortgage lender. So they're going to end up with higher interest rates more chances of mortgagee sales and more earning New Zealanders moving to Australia.The last time we saw the exodus the brain drain from New Zealand to this extent was under the Clark Labour Government when we had exactly the same 2008. We had interest rates at 11 percent higher than they are now—and I think my prediction is they'll probably end up there if this keeps going down this way—and we ended up with a brain drain. And we will have it again. It's already happening. One of the reasons it's so hard to even get a flight out of New Zealand is because so many people are going one way.When I was recently leaving New Zealand on the Speaker's tour I was standing by a young couple who seemed to have almost all their worldly goods with them at the check-in. And they told me—because I said "Oh where are you going?" And the chap said to me they were going to the US. They were going to some place in one of those states like Arkansas or something. And I thought how can Arkansas be more attractive than New Zealand? I mean seriously. I'm sure in Arkansas—I don't want to upset anyone in Arkansas; I don't know if they are "Arkansasians" or what. I don't want to upset them but I can't think that that would be more attractive than New Zealand. But they told me it was because they said they could buy a house; they can't buy a house in New Zealand.The costs of more regulation on top of more regulation for banks is going to mean not one extra New Zealander is going to be able to borrow money for a house because of this legislation. Not one extra. It is not going to bring down the cost of borrowing. It will put up the cost of borrowing. It will end up with more bank staff being more nervous about approving people's loans in case they've got something wrong. You know the stories that we've all heard of of people having to explain their coffee purchases to a bank manager to show that they can afford a mortgage—well what sort of strange world is that? That is the world wrought by Dr David Clark and his Government. It's the nanny State writ large. It's the people who cannot trust adults—adults who can have their own children who can apparently buy a property have a car have a driver's licence and even have a gun licence. We cannot trust them to do a deal with the evil bank!Well I actually think we've got to move past this. Best way to bring about best behaviours in banking is to have more competition. There's nothing like competition to get everybody to sharpen their pencils and be better at what they're doing. But all this legislation against banks and financial institutions all it ever seems to do is put up the costs that young New Zealanders older New Zealanders any New Zealander gets to pay for the privilege of borrowing money and paying it back. And that all comes down to this Government's lack of trust in adult New Zealanders to make their own decisions. And that is I think a real indictment on this Government—that everything that Dr David Clark despite him being a very pleasant person has tried to do in a well-meaning way has led to a complete turnaround and a total mess. And we'll all have to come back to Parliament to talk about it and try and fix things for him. And this is going to be another one.So we've got the Financial Markets Authority—that was set up under a National Government; from memory I think one of my predecessors did that. But we've also—they say there's no particular problem they're not the ones pushing for this. So where is it coming from? Is it that most of the banks in New Zealand are Australian? Is that it? Do you think it's that?Stuart Smith: Could be—could be.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: I think it could be that. I think it could be. Mr Smith you agree it's possibly that.Stuart Smith: Yes.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Well thank goodness that they were strong enough to help get us through the global financial crisis. Thank goodness that they were strong enough to help get us through the COVID period. The last thing that as a country we should wish is for our banking to be so small so tiny so incapable of withstanding world shocks or economic shocks—the last thing we want to see is our mum and dad Kiwis and even those who are not mums and dads losing their homes or losing their businesses because their bank has just lost their business.And so I'd say this is not going to cause that but what it will do is it will simply add more cost—more cost with worse outcomes and nobody's going to benefit except those who are paid to regulate and those who are paid to advise on regulation. That's who'll benefit from it. My legal colleagues who are in private practice will no doubt find this very interesting and they will no doubt be able to make some money off it but they're pretty much the only ones. It is one of those silly pieces of legislation that we should be saving the million dollars it apparently costs every hour for this Parliament to sit and actually just kick it to touch."