Bennett Paula: Child Support Amendment Bill (No 4) — In Committee 
Bennett Paula: Child Support Amendment Bill (No 4) — In Committee 
[Volume:633;Page:5154] 
PAULA BENNETT (National) 
: 
 I am very keen to talk about Part 2 and must admit that I too felt a bit confused about the issue of sexual victims not being liable and that side of things but having had the officials explain it a bit more I find it quite necessary in many respects and see the understanding around sex offences for the purposes of exemptions from child support payments. 
I suppose that brings up the whole exemptions thing and it is something I have been quite surprised about in the debate. Minister Cunliffe mentioned it many times and that is the huge amount of debt. At times the Minister was talking about $270000 I heard him throw out. I heard similar calls about the level of debt and I wonder why we do not ask how and why that level of debt is accumulating. That is the big question. The Minister gave the example of someone earning $30000 who has accumulated a debt of $270000 and in the Minister’s words that is “penalties and debt” in all fairness and the person was in a situation of not being able to repay the debt because it was too big. But how did someone get into that situation in the first place? 
I am pleased to hear that United Future is looking at addressing some of the other things in the bill because nothing else gets to us more than just how wrong so much of it is. I cannot stand here and come up with all the answers although Minister Cunliffe kept asking us to come up with the answers because he seemed incapable himself. We cannot come up with all of the answers in this case but there are far more questions raised. What came out of the submission process was a lot of extremely upset people and one wonders how they accumulate all of that debt. A degree of them must be getting into that level of debt purely because they do not think they should pay. 
The National Party wholeheartedly and vehemently believes that the department should be coming down hard on those people. In no way should they be looking at having anything written off—whether it is penalties or debt for repayment. If they believe they should not be paying then if anything we should be coming down harder on them. 
But that is not the whole picture and that is very much how it has been painted—that everybody gets themselves into a bit of debt and everybody who has got themselves into a bit of trouble is the bad person. We hear a bit about angry men but I can say there are some angry women out there as well. It is across the board. 
Judith Collins 
: They are busy being mothers. 
PAULA BENNETT 
: They are busy being mothers. I think the big question that is not being addressed and that I would be interested in the Minister addressing is how we are getting into these sorts of situations and how it is that presumably quite good people find themselves in a place where they do not get the answers they need and are confused about their repayments. At one stage we heard so many examples in the submission process of someone who one week gets a bill for $3000 and the next week a bill for $18000 and rings up and is told that the department actually owes that person. That sort of stuff really raises alarm bells for us because we wonder how we can have people feeling like they are paying fairly. 
I want to stress that what really hits us hard with this one is those people who believe that they do not have to pay. They believe they can leave a relationship and as such they can leave the children. They cannot because they have an obligation and a responsibility. We will fight that to the day we die because it is something that we stand for and we will not ever back away from it. It is about responsibility and self-responsibility. Those people who believe they should not be looking after their own those people who believe they can be hands-off are the ones who need to front up and they should not have those sorts of penalties withdrawn. If anything we should be increasing the penalties when it comes to it. 
I was looking at the administration side of things in Part 2 and amendments to the Tax Administration Act 1994 and was reading through with regard to sex offences. Before the dinner break I note the Minister in the chair the Hon David Cunliffe decided to bring up section 85I “Use of information supplied under section 85H”. He thought he would be a wee bit funny—