Jackson Willie; Kuriger BarbaraHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour): Thank you Madam Chair; thank you very much. Can I tautoko first of all the words of the Hon Jenny Salesa. The Efeso Collins death has had a huge effect I think on this Parliament. I congratulated Parliament the other day actually on TV—people right across from all sides who paid their respects which I think brought the best out in Parliament. We're all feeling those effects and many of us from all sides of the House will go and pay our respects tomorrow. I support what the Hon Jenny Salesa said: Efeso Collins would have been right in here asking questions about the effects of this bill on our communities. I have a specific question of course that I'm going to come to now. And we have traversed the area in terms of transfer of undertakings which are incredibly important and I think the Minister of Health has tried to answer that or has answered that.I have another specific question—and we're looking at new Part 2 clause 40 in Schedule 1—and it's in that transfer of undertakings area again and I'll come down to subclause (3). You'll see Madam Chair the points that are made: (a) on the commencement date Health New Zealand and the union are parties to a new collective: (b) the terms and conditions of the new collective agreement are the same as the earlier agreement subject to any necessary modifications:". My question centres around paragraph (c) of clause 40(3) where "the employee is covered by the new collective agreement as long as they remain a member of the union."Now of course that is something that we as a Government—and I'm here with our main spokesperson Camilla Belich—would insist on: that that type of clause be in any type of agreement. So we're pleased with that. But the different set up in terms of Māori and Māori health actually has seen a number of our people not in unions. I'm a person who will always try and organise them and get them involved in unions but for whatever reason some of our people choose not to go down that track which is something the other side would always support—they'd always support them not being in unions. With that being the case what are the plans for these types of workers who transfer across? I'll ask the Minister so it's very clear—paragraph (c) of clause 40(3): "the employee is covered by the new collective agreement as long as they remain a member of the union." So if they're not a member of the union—as I said many of our workers kaimahi choose not to be which is disappointing—what are the plans from the Minister and the organisation with regards to those people? Those people still have rights. They're still upholders of our culture of our reo. They're still advancing the kaupapa in terms of Māori health. They're an integral part have been an integral part of the Māori Health Authority. Will those workers be dismissed? Will they be sidelined? What is the plan? Has the Minister thought outside the box with regards to this given that that point is very clear? "The employee is covered by the new collective agreement as long as they remain a member of the union."Now as we know the National Party are not particularly good supporters of anyone who joins unions. In fact the strategy has been to discourage these people from joining unions because they're into individual rights and the free market and everyone making a choice. So that type of decision some of our people for different reasons find that culturally offensive—they see that's a breach of their rights as an individual. So again I ask the Minister: what is the plan for those kaimahi and our people who decide that joining the union is not an option for them?CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): I just want to mention to the committee that I've been watching the debate very closely and I also was in here last night as the debate was going through. I've heard many calls on dissatisfaction over the bill itself I've heard the Minister answer questions about employment and the structural changes that he intends and I've also heard answers around the disability questions that have been asked. I am looking for very new questions not speeches of dissatisfaction. Thank you."