Webb Duncan; Rurawhe AdrianDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. It's rather odd to sit here and listen to the members for the other side who are going to support this bill—as they should because fundamentally it did come from their Government—and yet the very thing they object to on the one hand is that the Commerce Commission has the ability to instigate these market studies and yet on the other hand they're objecting to the very thoughtful steps taken by our coalition partners and others to scrutinise what's going on in the market place. We absolutely need to have markets which are well disciplined and you can't know if a market is well disciplined unless and until you know what's going on in the market. So of course we need these market studies.There is a real concern—a real and genuine concern—in many markets in New Zealand that there are aberrations: that there are monopolies or duopolies that there may be cartel-like behaviour that there may be some kind of market collusion or price fixing that there could be some kind of abuse of market power or that simply there's no clear and fair information about the nature of the products and their pricing. But do you know what? We don't know that because it's complex. The markets—the way they work is complex. Even if we do look at the fuel market—we look at the 30c increase that has occurred which has nothing to do with the very useful levies which are being used to fix our infrastructure deficit. It's just come from somewhere and we're not quite sure where. Is it fleecing? Well it damn well looks like it and we need to find out. But we're not going to just make it up; we want to do a study.Now if you're going to do a study you can't do that unless you have the ability to ask for and ultimately demand that information and when you need that information you need it now and you need it in full. So we can't just send someone into the market to ask nicely; we need the Commerce Commission to have these powers. And yes they will be expensive. The Commerce Commission has extra funding to conduct these and we must accept that there will be a burden on industries who are asked to respond to these questions. But if there's nothing going wrong they have nothing to fear.Andrew Bayly: That is naive.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: What will ultimately happen is that abhorrent markets will be fixed. And who will be the winner? I'll tell you who will be the winner Mr Bayly. The winners will be (1) the consumer and (2) every honest business in New Zealand because a good honest and competitive business will thrive whilst we can pay attention to those who are breaking the rules who are acting inefficiently or who are abusing their power or where the market is simply broken and needs intervention. So that is why we need these powers. That's why the Commerce Commission needs these powers. We need to understand a market before we take any steps in respect of it.The other thing is this: it's highly likely that once we know what's going on in these markets—once this power has been exercised—no further steps will be needed because what is going on will see the light of day. Consumers will know if they are being taken advantage of. Other businesses will know where other players are not playing by the rules are cheating or are simply making monopoly profits. So it's absolutely imperative that not only Ministers have the ability to look and say the public needs to know but also the Commerce Commission because quite rightly there will be instances where we have to depoliticise this question where in fact it may be something which the Government has a hand in. Air New Zealand owned largely by the Government—well maybe we need to look at airlines. That may well be the case. It may be a hard decision for the Government to make; the Commerce Commission can make it one step removed without any suggestion of political interference and that is absolutely to be endorsed. The test is a public interest test: what is in the interests of the public of New Zealand businesses and consumers? And a fair free and properly regulated market is absolutely what is in the interests of the New Zealand public. This won't be a fishing expedition. Businesses need not be alarmed that there's going to be a whole lot of investigations that are unnecessary and expensive. No this is going to be a tool which will be carefully exercised modestly exercised and absolutely exercised in the interests of New Zealand and our markets will be better for it. Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe): I call Alastair Scott—five minutes.