12. Pay Equity—Joint Working Group on Pay Equity Principles Recommendations and LegislationJAN LOGIE (Green) to the Minister for Workplace Relations and SafetyPay Equity—Joint Working Group on Pay Equity Principles Recommendations and Legislation12. JAN LOGIE (Green) to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: What are the differences between the recommendations of the Joint Working Group on Pay Equity Principles and the pay equity bill that the Government has introduced?Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister of Corrections) on behalf of the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: In November 2016 the Government accepted the recommendations of the joint working group and has developed the Employment (Pay Equity and Equal Pay) Bill to give effect to those recommendations. One area that the joint working group could not reach agreement on was the extent to which the principles provide guidance on identifying comparators in terms of industry or sectoral proximity to the employees in the pay equity claim. The Government has chosen to strengthen the principles by making it clear that comparators should come from within the same business similar businesses or the same industry or sector when available and appropriate. Closer occupations are likely to be more readily comparable and provide better quality information for making comparisons. This is consistent with the Court of Appeal's decision in the Terranova case and with pay equity regimes in other jurisdictions which generally limit comparators to being within the same workplace or employer.Jan Logie: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did ask the Minister what the differences are. She has identified one but it was a plural question.Mr SPEAKER: That is not a point of order. The member now needs to make progress with her supplementary questions. I have a little sympathy for her because I found it very difficult to hear the answer and that was because of interjection from people on my left. Carry on with the supplementary questions.Jan Logie: Why after spending months on a process overseen by Dame Patsy Reddy which got agreement on pay equity principles from business Government and unions has the Minister now introduced a bill that makes changes to these agreed principles and does not have the support of one of the three parties?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I said there was one area and that was the area of identifying comparators that the joint working group could not reach agreement on. So the bill that has been introduced—and we have put out a draft for circulation—has provided great and valuable feedback from the stakeholders and we have tabled a bill that we look forward to passing.Jan Logie: Is the Minister saying that the comparators are the only point of difference from the principles?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: The joint working group principles were a really critical part and led to the drafting of this bill as I mentioned earlier. What this Government is committed to is ensuring that we have a pay equity regime that women are able to take a claim more easily that it is fair that it is easy to approach and that it is workable for both employees and employers. That is what this Government has delivered.Jan Logie: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: If the point of order is that the question has not been addressed I agree. Can I invite the member to ask the question again?Jan Logie: Is the Minister saying that the comparators are the only thing that is different from the principles as they were agreed?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I am saying that is the key area of difference only because the joint working group was not able to reach agreement on it. We have a bill that is before the House and will be open to public submissions and we look forward to hearing from New Zealanders employers and employees about their views.Jan Logie: I seek leave to table a briefing from the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions outlining several points of difference from the agreed principles.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that information. Is there any objection? There is objection. [Interruption] Mr SPEAKER: Order! Supplementary question Jan Logie.Jan Logie: How can the Minister say this bill will be good for women when the campaign for equal value equal pay arguably New Zealand's experts on pay equity has said that the Government's bill will make it harder not easier for women to claim equal pay for work of equal value. We prefer to keep the Act we've got which has just increased wages for 55000 undervalued care and support workers."?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: We welcome submissions as the process of the legislation progresses. That is exactly why we have a submission process. The reality is we have a piece of legislation that enables both equal pay and pay equity and as the member has just said over 55000 New Zealand women have benefited exactly from our Government's work on pay equity."