Rich Katherine: Charities Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
Rich Katherine: Charities Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:625;Page:19965] 
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
: 
 It was very interesting to hear the previous speaker mention words like the “sheer bewildering variety” of charities. Yes out of the 37000 charities in this country there are a huge number of differing kinds of charities yet this bill is trying to squash them into regulation and registration even though they may differ dramatically in terms of their objectives and the work that they do. 
I would like to endorse the comments made by Judith Collins and also by Sue Bradford on the original clause 15 “Qualifications of officers of charitable entities”. It was very interesting to hear members of the New Zealand Prisoners Aid and Rehabilitation Society when they came before the Social Services Committee. They basically said that the society would have no office holders if that part of the bill went through as it was. Is it not odd that someone like Sue Bradford can become a member of Parliament under the present law but that under this bill as it was she could not have become the treasurer of her local Plunket? 
Office holder after office holder said to us that this law was just nuts. The first thing they wanted to be able to indemnify themselves against was carrying the can if things go wrong and luckily that is one of the changes that has been made. Time and time again volunteers said that they were happy to work for their communities as volunteers but if things go wrong why should they carry the can? If the local Plunket group finds out that someone has embezzled money or the local sports club finds out that some office holder committed some wrongdoing that constituted an office holder being penalised why should the group carry the can for that? So that change made a lot of sense. 
The Minister in the chair Judith Tizard needs to explain what mischief this legislation is trying to solve. She has not taken one call tonight to explain any part of this bill or to answer any of the questions put to her by any of the speakers. 
I would like to turn members’ attention to clause 23 “Charitable entity must display registration number” which has been struck out. One mischief that this bill was supposed to solve was the opportunity for bogus charity collectors to walk the streets shaking a tin and asking for money. This provision required all charities to display a registration number on every written communication every piece of fund-raising material every pamphlet every badge and every bit of paper. Charitable group after charitable group came before us and said that it would cost them a huge amount of money to reprint all their materials to put this magic number that they will get from the Charities Commission on to their marketing materials and signs. 
One National member of the select committee piped up and said: “Hang on a minute. If people are going to try to rip off New Zealanders and pretend to be a bogus charity aren’t they just going to make the number up? Won’t they just plonk some number on to the tin or the pamphlet and hold that out as being their official number?”. The officials and the Government members of the select committee said that—duh—that might be the case. It had not occurred to those members that if anybody did want to go and rip off some poor New Zealander that person would just make up the number. So thankfully that bit has been struck out. That will save charities a lot of money and a lot of difficulties. We live in a world where people can forge passports money and credit cards—and paintings in some cases—so it is not difficult to put a number on to a begging tin pamphlets or raffle tickets. 
Rodney Hide 
: If Helen Clark was convicted of forgery. 
KATHERINE RICH 
: Well yes if that clause had gone through she would not be able to be the treasurer of her local Plunket either I say to Mr Hide. 
So at least we see a few changes and struck out provisions here. But I would like the Minister in the chair to expend a few calories and get out of that chair to tell the people of New Zealand what mischief this legislation is aiming to solve because we have not seen clear evidence of bogus charities seeking money from New Zealanders.