Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 21 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:8102. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
7. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister for Economic Development 
: Did the Minister for Economic Development sight the request for  
Expressions of Interest for Growing New Zealand’s share of the International Business Events Market and Strengthening the National Network of Convention Centres  
document before it was issued on 19 May 2010; and was it shown to other Ministers? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development) 
: 
 A draft expressions of interest document was seen by the Minister for Economic Development prior to publication. I am advised that there is no record of the draft document being provided to other Ministers. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Why then did the economic development Minister allow the expressions of interest document to go public without the inclusion of the key criterion which was that the Government would not fund any capital costs for the convention centre? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: That actually is discussed at some length as the member may or may not be aware in the Deputy Auditor-General’s report. In fact the Deputy Auditor-General says that “[they] are not suggesting that the EOI document should have specified a budget or any particular figure or provided information that would have prevented the competitive process from managing price effectively.” She goes on to make some suggestions in terms of what could have been said instead of what was said but in no way was it suggested that the Government should say that there was no money for the centre. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I was asking why the Minister took the view that the expressions of interest document went public without the key criterion in it. The Minister told us about what the Deputy Auditor-General thought. That is fine but I am interested in what the Minister thinks. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think that is a fair point. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I think it is safe to say to the member that the Government took a similar view. It was not sure who would come up with what. The Government said that it would welcome creative ideas and suggestions as to how the construction and operation of an international-standard convention centre could be funded. As I said the Deputy Auditor-General while saying that it could perhaps have been a little more explicit in a couple of areas was not suggesting that the expressions of interest document suggest that there would be no funding. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Why did Ministers tell Skycity and Skycity alone in October 2009 and again in March 2010 that a mandatory criterion for a successful convention centre bid was that the Government would not have to provide funding for any capital costs yet the expressions of interest document issued by his department 6 months later did not include this critical piece of information? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: In fact I do not think the member is right in his use of words and the way they are phrased. The reality was that the Government considered its position and decided that the best approach was to put out an expressions of interest document call for creative and innovative ways of funding a convention centre and be prepared to accept and look at any proposals. But it also made very clear—and in fact Mr Brownlee I understand made clear at the time—to prospective bidders that the Government was very cash-strapped and did not have much money so obviously not putting a huge amount of money on the table was very important from the Government’s perspective. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he accept that it was a fundamentally non-transparent and non - even-handed process as the Deputy Auditor-General found because one of the bidders Skycity was aware that it was a fundamental criterion that there should be no capital funding from the Government but the other bidders were not aware that that was a fundamental criterion of a successful bid? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: The member is creating a straw man at least twice in that particular question by suggesting something that I have not seen the Deputy Auditor-General to have said and suggesting the Government said something that I have also not seen that the Government said and then asking whether that was a major problem. The reality is that the premise and the way that the member describes the process are incorrect. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Well then is the Deputy Auditor-General creating a straw person when she said “one potential submitter”—that is Skycity—“had a clearer understanding of the actual position on a critical issue … than … other potential submitters.” and that critical issue was the issue of whether the Government was going to provide any funding for capital costs? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I would be appreciative of the member referring to where that is said in the report. What I can say to the member in relation to the expressions of interest process is that the Deputy Auditor-General said that the consequences of the flaws in the expressions of interest document were relatively minor. Again she felt there should have been more planning done in terms of the process but actually the suggestion she made in terms of the expressions of interest document in relation to cost were actually not hugely different from what the Government did in the initial phase. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In light of the Minister’s request that I point to where that comes from I seek to table one paragraph from the report which is 4.61 where the Deputy Auditor-General says— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The report is publicly available. It has been studied by many members. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: When will the Minister read paragraph 4.61 of the Deputy Auditor-General’s report where the Deputy Auditor-General says “the result was that one potential submitter had a clearer understanding of the actual position on a critical issue—that the Government did not want to fund any capital costs—than any other potential submitters.”—that is that it was a fundamentally unbalanced uneven and non-transparent process? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: If the member reads out something from the report I am happy to read the rest of that paragraph particularly one sentence that I think is important. The Deputy Auditor-General then said “We accept that it is unlikely that this … made [any] material difference to the outcome.” This is the problem. The Opposition members firstly try to completely rubbish the process and put words in the Deputy Auditor-General’s mouth that are not actually there. The second thing underlying all of this is their absolute distaste for anything that the Government does to increase economic growth in this country. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he accept that the Ministers who had personally spelt out to Skycity that the Government’s bottom line was that it would not stump up any money for capital costs had a fundamental responsibility to ensure that the other bidders for the convention centre were also aware of this bottom line because the Deputy Auditor-General is very clear that the other bidders were not aware of it? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I just reject the characterisation in the member’s question. He constantly does this. He says “This is what the Government said.” when it is actually patently not what the Government said and then asks whether we regret that or should stop doing that and tries to get us to actually respond to that. I reject the premise in his question. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is it just a coincidence that out of the dozens and dozens of tendering and evaluation processes run by the Ministry of Economic Development the only one that has been found by the Deputy Auditor-General to be not transparent or even-handed is the process kick-started and personally overseen by John Key? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Again the member is seeking to smear the Prime Minister in that regard—[ 
Interruption 
] He is because the Deputy Auditor-General herself said that there was no concerns about the stage of the process where the Prime Minister was involved in having preliminary discussions with Skycity. The criticisms were in relation to the procedural matters of the expressions of interest. Frankly the member is grasping at straws. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is he aware that the definition of crony capitalism is an economy where success in business depends on close relationships between business people and Government officials and if we are to avoid falling into that trap it is critical that the process is properly followed by the Government and the Auditor-General was very clear that the evaluation process in this case was not balanced even-handed or transparent? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I accept that the definition of Green capitalism is only something when you can be subsidised by the Government.