Parker DavidBROKERING (WEAPONS AND RELATED ITEMS) CONTROLS BILLIn CommitteePart 1 Preliminary provisionsHon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General): Thank you Madam Chair. I rise to take a call in respect of Part 1 of the Brokering (Weapons and Related Items) Controls Bill. I made a contribution in respect of the second reading of this and when I read this legislation I thought that I'd like to have some clarity as to what the effect is of the definition of brokering activity" which is set out in clause 4 of the bill.In clause 4 it says "has the meaning set out in section 5'". Section 5—or clause 5 of the bill as it is more properly described now—says "In this Act brokering activity (a) means arranging facilitating or negotiating a transaction that involves the international transfer of weapons or related items from a place outside New Zealand to another place outside New Zealand; and (b) includes—(i) in relation to a transaction described in paragraph (a) acting as an agent for a person involved in the transaction or as an intermediary between 2 or more persons involved in the transaction; and"—also includes—"(ii) acquiring or storing weapons or … items in a place outside [of] New Zealand for the purpose of transferring [those] weapons or related items … outside [of] New Zealand; but (c) does not include the provision of service that is merely ancillary to [that] … (for example the provision of administrative customs broking or financial services …".So it seems to me that we're going after more than the person who is the broker; we're going for agents of the broker. But I'm just wondering as I read this what level of involvement is required on the part of a New Zealander in order for them to be found an agent.Now one of the reasons why this is important is that this is an unusual piece of legislation in that it grants New Zealand courts the ability to prosecute New Zealanders for their actions outside of New Zealand. As I've already said this also includes the facilitating or negotiating of transactions that involve the transfer of weapons outside of New Zealand. My understanding is that that work can effectively be done by a New Zealander outside of New Zealand and it will still be caught within the New Zealand criminal code because of course a breach of this legislation carries with it penalties which are set out in other parts of the Act. But in order for that to happen you have to be caught as being someone who is involved in a brokering activity.This includes dual-use goods and there's some complexity around this. So I would be grateful if the Minister could explain—not immediately but before the end of this debate—what level of involvement is required for you to be seen to be an agent. I don't see that specifically. I know this is legislation that the Minister has inherited from the prior Government and that it's been well considered by the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee but as I read the legislation I wasn't clear what in practice would amount to that level of activity that would be caught by the bill. I know that there will have been some actual examples probably given by officials to the select committee as to what amounts to involvement that would be sufficient to bring this into play.In the one minute and fifty-nine fifty-eight—in the minute or so that I have available I would also look to see whether we could also have some clarity as to what dual-use goods means. I understand that goods can have a civilian use but are intended for military end-use and they fall within a specified category. Could we have some indication as to how we're going to find what is on that specified category? I'm thinking for example of global positioning systems. We know that some of the work that for example is done with global positioning systems—that that work can be used for a farm purpose or to position a device relative to an orchard but it can also be used for military purposes. So we're going to have to have some way in which we practically define that so that we don't catch unintendedly the things that shouldn't be caught."