Turei Metiria: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeTurei Metiria: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 17 June 2015. Volume:706;Page:4479. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]6.METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister responsible for HNZC: Does he stand by his statement that “I can commit to all public services involved with these families taking the steps that they ought to take to prevent as tragic an outcome as a death”?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister responsible for HNZC): Yes.Metiria Turei: Will the Minister instruct Housing New Zealand to provide every State house built before 2000 with thermal-quality curtains and carpeted floors as a step to prevent as tragic an outcome as a death?Hon BILL ENGLISH: As I understand it—and I will have to check the detailed information—since Housing New Zealand has insulated all State houses that can be insulated unlike under previous Governments it does now supply heating to those houses that cannot be insulated. There will be a question of course as to whether that goes as far as a particular grade of thermal drapes or carpet. We would expect it to be of a reasonable standard.Metiria Turei: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a very clear question asking the Minister as to whether he—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am going to on this occasion allow the repeat of the question. I suspect it has been addressed. It was not a very clear question in my mind but it was a supplementary question that was accepted. I invite the member to ask it again for the benefit of myself and of the Minister.Metiria Turei: Will the Minister instruct Housing New Zealand to provide every State house built before 2000 with thermal-quality curtains and carpeted floors as a step to prevent as tragic an outcome as a death?Hon BILL ENGLISH: There is no need to instruct Housing New Zealand. It has a standard to which it maintains its houses. Fortunately it is the highest standard it has ever been. The member needs to keep in mind the original comments for which she asked the primary question and that is that where there are families for whom there are real health risks there are almost certainly a range of other issues involved—other health issues long-term welfare dependence lack of access to work or education. The approach this Government takes through social investment is to try to deal with the range of issues from the point of view of the family not just one such as the heating in the house although of course that is important.Metiria Turei: Will the Minister instruct Housing New Zealand to provide every State house built before 2000 that has unlined block walls with lining as a step to prevent as tragic an outcome as a death?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Housing New Zealand in the light of this case will certainly be considering what its maintenance standards are. The requirement of them will be to reach a reasonable standard. That is a bit different from you know guarantees about exactly what happens with each family in each house.Jami-Lee Ross: What steps is the Government taking to support vulnerable families by delivering more warm dry homes where they are most needed?Hon BILL ENGLISH: There are a number in train. We have been spending more than $300 million every year maintaining these homesto of course standards relevant today rather than when they were built which was far too many of them back in the 1950s and 1960s. We will continue with an insulation programme that has insulated 280000 old cold damp homes through the Warm Up New Zealand programme. We have spent around $30 million to provide heating in about 2000 homes where that is important and thermal curtains have been installed in around 17000 homes since February 2013. That is in addition to investing over the next 3 years through the Housing New Zealand asset management strategy $2.9 billion to build and upgrade State housing still overcoming a legacy of 50 years of policy that was not that sensible in between National Governments by incompetent Labour Governments that took State housing for granted.Metiria Turei: Will the Minister instruct Housing New Zealandto as a matter of urgency move every family whose doctors say they are at serious risk of a life-threatening respiratory illness from their cold damp State house to a warm dry and safe State house?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Where I think there may be some common ground here is that I think—and this has not been instructed—that where there are indications of significant health issues such as the admission of a child to hospital that should be picked up by a range of social services and acted on as it is now for rheumatic fever. Such a straightforward notification process and appropriate sharing of information which too many people are still unwilling to do could lead to a benefit for families who are experiencing health problems. But in respect of moving every one of these families to another warm dry house that would be a lot easier if our city planning was not distorted by Green-type policies that prevent the building of affordable reasonable-standard houses on the scale that we need. Housing New Zealand has the same issues as everyone else in Auckland—there is a shortage of houses because of 20 years of Green-type policies that stop them being built.Metiria Turei: Is it not a fact that Emma-Lita Bourne’s family was identified as being at risk because of the illness of those children and was not moved from their cold damp house until after she was dead?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I would have to look back into the details of the case but if the member is raising the issue that across State agencies there is not enough information shared about the risks to some of these families then she would be correct. Too often the professionals involved and sometimes the agencies involved think it is inappropriate to share information that would allow better servicing of those families. Right now we are looking at addressing a large number of information-sharing agreements to try to resolve that problem because we believe that information that is held which could help avoid this kind of tragic outcome is probably not the best way to deal with it.Metiria Turei: Has the Minister received any advice on the cost of carpets and curtains and wall linings for those State houses without them versus the benefit of saving tenants’ lives; if so what is his cost-per-life ratio?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Well not specifically in that form although I would have to say that that view of the expenditure is completely consistent with our social investment framework—that is where it is clear there are benefits that exceed the cost then we are willing to spend more money. Often it is as simple as knowing which families are at risk which agencies knew that and what information has been provided to people who can make decisions to make that kind of expenditure.Metiria Turei: Is the Minister therefore confirming that he is making an assessment as to the risk of death of infants like Emma-Lita Bourne or of young fathers like Soesa Tovo against the cost of providing carpet and curtains and wall linings for the cold damp State homes that they are living in—is that what he just told us?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No certainly not in those terms if only because the cases the member is referring to have their own complexities and circumstances that are not amenable to simple economic calculations of that nature. I am simply making the point a general point that long-term dependency and poor levels of housing do flow through to longer-term costs. We all understand that and I would have thought that the member instead of opposing the Social Housing Reform Programme might now see these couple of high-profile deaths as a catalyst to supporting reform in the State housing programme so that we can achieve some of the things she wants to achieve.