Eagle Paul; Rurawhe AdrianPAUL EAGLE (Labour—Rongotai): Thank you Mr Speaker and it's a pleasure to talk on the Secondhand Dealers and Pawnbrokers (Electronic Records) Amendment Bill. Can I acknowledge the member who just spoke for that history and also the work that he has undertaken in terms of bringing this to the House. I want to acknowledge the work of the New Zealand Police just looking at what they had done in Counties Manukau. I know and the member will agree with me that this hasn't been rolled out across New Zealand—I'm thinking of the Serial Number Automated Checker (SNAC) technology. In talking to our district police service here in Wellington which covers up to the Wairarapa the system's not in place that is in Counties Manukau and I think Waikato also has it. But I think it's also good to hear too that clarity around small business because as it stands—we've heard my colleagues talk about this previously but there are those unintended consequences around the small business compliance. And maybe if there was clarity around how that compliance would have played out—and I want to mirror some of the detail my ACT member in Rongotai talked about in terms of those essentials around equipment internet cost training—if those things had been clearer in the bill I think maybe there could have been a different view here on the Government banks. However that's not the case and what we are seeing here is that as it stands the compliance is unclear in terms of what those small businesses would have to do. I'm also not convinced that the police wouldn't get the system and put it in place and then impose some sort of cost or charging or regime—it's a better word—on to small businesses of varying sorts to say This is now the system this would be the cost and this would be maybe it's annually maybe it's a template of some sort but those costs—and then the possible accusations that we are doing this rather than being on the front line." These are just some of the stories that fall into the unintended consequences. Despite the police having a "prevention first" mantra there could also be an accusation that the compliance costs are such where we have sworn and non-sworn police officers in the office administering a system which small businesses those second-hand dealers who I have spoken to have said "Look if it was say to come for free if we were going to be supported given training over a longer period of time than the three months maybe that would be something that we would look into." But there was a fear that something that was introduced would look good initially but over time would then cost would add to that and to sum it up the compliance costs or the cost of administering such a system over time. The good news is I can say that all of them had—and I wouldn't just call them handwritten notes that would not be accurate it would be inaccurate but they had their own systems and when shown them I thought "Wow they can quickly get that information to police." and many of them already do. We are making the assumption here that they don't have a relationship with the police service within their districts. The ones that I spoke to do. They have very good relationships. They are often "wise enough"—that's a good term—to alert the police up front to suspects that have come to mind. And they collaborate internally as a sector to say "Actually we believe that something just does not feel right." So I wouldn't underestimate those dealers who are already on to this in their own way. But look those are the concerns from the front line. You've heard from some of my colleagues about just that clarity. Someone mentioned that voluntary code. I know in other parts of enforcement—I'm thinking wheel-clamping here—there was a code there put in place. This one seems to work. But as I've distinguished amongst the different districts within the police in Counties Manukau and Waikato they've got SNAC. In other parts things seem to be—DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The member's time has expired."