Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:634;Page:5753] 
3.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: What steps if any will the Government take to address issues raised by the Controller and Auditor-General in his report on election advertising? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 I will be introducing a bill this afternoon on this matter to be taken through all stages under urgency. The Government will then seek to participate with all others in the House in the broader review of the appropriations and related issues. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister confirm that the validating legislation he is introducing today will not impose any legal obligation on parties to pay back taxpayers’ money spent unlawfully; and is that because some of the parties involved have no intention of paying the money back? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Yes and I am not aware of the position of all parties on this matter. I know what the position of my party is. 
Rodney Hide 
: In light of the Government’s intention to pass legislation retrospectively validating unlawful spending by party leaders and members of Parliament has the Government given any thought to validating legislation for art fraud motorcade speeding defamation and the destruction of evidence; if not why not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No more than the outside contributions to MPs’ salaries. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Why does the Minister’s bill seek to validate the unlawful spending of Mr Peters and the New Zealand First Party when Mr Peters is making it very clear that he has no intention of paying back the $160000 he owes the taxpayers of New Zealand? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am unaware of the truth or otherwise of that assertion. I do note that the bill validates all spending by the National Party including that for which it has not refunded the Government including for example its 2002 spending which under the Auditor-General’s rules is clearly outside the scope. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Is that a parliamentary word and would its translation be a parliamentary word as well? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: It is a term. If the member wishes a translation I am sure we have an interpreter here to give it to him if he is not aware of it. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If the Labour Party is taking such a highbrow attitude to this in saying that it will pay it back why has it not included that in the legislation? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I have no parliamentary responsibility for that matter at all. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister has made the mistake of thinking I was asking him a question as the deputy leader of the Labour Party. I was not; I was asking him a question as Minister of Finance. He does have a responsibility for expenditure of taxpayers’ money and the question asked why he has not included the repayment or requirement for repayment in his bill. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: On a related matter whether particular people refund the expenditure is irrelevant to whether the expenditure remains unlawful. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Why is the Minister then placing so much importance on the validating legislation to remedy a technical breach and such little importance on the actual requirement to pay the money back when it was spent from taxpayers quite unlawfully? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: There is clearly no requirement at this point. The member misses the second part. At the moment it is quite clear that unless changes occur through statute a trip like Dr Brash’s on parliamentary funding and at public expense to go and sign up a member of the National Party is outside the rules. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Are you going to accept that answer from Dr Cullen? It would seem to contradict your own determinations in these matters quite flagrantly relating to parliamentary travel. I do not expect an answer right now but I think any consideration of the determinations that you have made about parliamentary travel as is appropriately your domain would mean that Dr Cullen’s assertion is quite wrong. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Speaking to the point of order I say that of course the member does have a fair point if what we do is accept the legal opinion from Mr Jack Hodder so thoroughly condemned by Mr Brownlee last Thursday. If however we accept a legal opinion from the former Solicitor-General and the Auditor-General’s opinion based on that then clearly flying on taxpayers’ expense to sign up a National Party member and for apparently no other reason is clearly outside the rules. It is called electioneering. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Ruling on the point of order I say that this is a matter for the Minister responsible for Vote Parliamentary Service. It is a matter that should appropriately be raised tomorrow at the Parliamentary Service Commission. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister confirm that the tests set out in sections 72A to 72D of the validation legislation as presented would make the pledge card legal and effectively overturns the Auditor-General’s concerns? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: That would be the case but the member should also note that section 7 lapses at the end of 2007. That was deliberately chosen to allow full review of the rules before election year.