Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 13 March 2008. Volume:645;Page:14917. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Questions to Ministers 
Maori Trustee—Independence 
12. Hon TAU HENARE (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: Is the Maori Trustee intended to be independent of the Crown? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 Yes. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: If as the Minister says the Maori Trustee is independent of the Crown how is the Crown able to purloin $35 million out of the general purposes fund? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The Maori Trustee will be included on the fourth schedule of the Public Finance Act. This is currently not the case. The other issue is that the $35 million that will come out to support this is money earned on interest—it is in the general purposes fund. It is technically recognised by Crown Law as the Maori Trustee’s money. 
Moana Mackey 
: Will the Minister ensure the Maori Trustee’s independence under the Maori Trustee and Maori Development Amendment Bill? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Yes. At present the Maori Trustee is an office conferred on an employee of Te Puni Kokiri. The bill will establish the Maori Trustee as a stand-alone entity that is separate from Te Puni Kokiri. This will underline the independence of the Maori Trustee in carrying out his or her responsibilities. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Can the Minister confirm that the Maori Trustee’s general purposes fund is made up from income generated by and derived from beneficiary money? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The Maori Trust Office Regulations 1954 require the Maori Trustee to pay set interest rates on beneficiaries’ money in the common fund. Those rates are 3 percent for balances less than $5000; 4 percent for balances between $5000 and $50000; and 5 percent for balances over $50000. The bill will remedy the interest differential by requiring the Maori Trustee to review on a quarterly basis the interest rates paid taking into account market rates and similar types of investment. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I ask your assistance Madam Speaker. Without my going through my question again do you think that that reply addressed the question? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes I think it fully addressed the question. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My question was: “Can the Minister confirm that the Maori Trustee’s general purposes fund is made up from income generated by and derived from beneficiary money?”. The Minister went on about something completely different— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry to interrupt the member but I have ruled on that. Yes the Minister did go on and I thought he was addressing the issue. If the member wishes to ask another question of the Minister he should feel free to do so. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What does the Minister understand by the term “independent of the Crown”; and as a precedent would he follow the Quality Inn deal of 1991 when the Maori Trustee put in three-quarters of the money for one-quarter of the dividends ownership and action—which was supported by the then National Party—then when the Hawaiians flogged off that share it was owned by the Singaporeans which was also supported by the National Party; and does he regard that as being an example of being independent of the Crown? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That is a very good question. It was an outrageous situation that Tau Henare helped to put Maori people in. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: As the Minister said in answer to my question in the House last Tuesday that the Crown Law Office advised him that the general purposes fund is owned by the Maori Trustee and that no other person has a claim over it how does he think he can purloin the $35 million out of the general purposes fund? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I am not too sure why the member is waxing on about purloining because this is about an injection and progressing Maori into the future. This is about ensuring that they have a fund to use when they cannot get access to banks or anything else. What is wrong with that and why is that member moving against this legislation? The legislation is positive for Maoridom. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: How many trustees will be appointed by the Minister of Maori Affairs to the new Maori Business Aotearoa New Zealand entity and has the Minister shoulder-tapped anybody to be a part of the new team? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: There will be trustees appointed by the Minister just as is done with judges and other people. It will go through a process. At the end of the day a lot of the Maori farmers who are very supportive of Labour and the Maori landowners will certainly put names up as we would expect. This is about progress. I remind that member that in 1996 he stood up and said he would halve the Maori unemployment rate and it moved up to just under 20 percent. He stood up and said the same thing again in 1998. I tell the House that this Maori Trustee— 
Hon Tau Henare 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. With respect how can that be addressing the question? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member is right. The first part did but the second part certainly did not address the question; it went off on a tangent. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I know that you have just ruled on this matter but investment in Maori enterprise—the extensive amount that has occurred under this Government as a result of Treaty settlements and a number of things—has resulted in a substantial decline in Maori unemployment whether or not the National Party likes it. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member but I have ruled on the matter. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: On the question that Mr Henare asked as to whether the trustees would be shoulder-tapped did the Minister hear Bob Clarkson’s interjection that it depends on how much money they get and can he confirm that none of them will ever be appointed from the Blue Chip group of companies which are so beloved of Mr Clarkson? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The best people will be appointed. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Can the Minister confirm the statement made by the Hon Shane Jones that the proposed Maori Business Aotearoa New Zealand entity will receive millions of dollars purloined from the Crown Forestry Rental Trust and the Poutama Maori Business Trust; if so what right does he have to purloin money set aside for use in Treaty settlements to give to his personal appointees to use as a Labour Party slush fund? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That is an outrage. I know full well that Mr Jones who went to Harvard University is too wise to say that nonsense. At the end of the day the member is making it up again. I remind that member that the Maori Trustee will be included on the fourth schedule of the Public Finance Act which is not currently the case. The reporting obligations for bodies included on the fourth schedule of the Public Finance Act reflect the independence of these organisations. Examples include Ngai Tahu Ancillary Claims Trust the New Zealand Fish and Game Council and the New Zealand Lottery Grants Board. I ask the member what is wrong with that.