Little AndrewHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health): It's a great privilege to be able to take a call on this the third reading of the Incorporated Societies Bill. As I've explained to the House before my connection to this legislation is not only that I've run a number of incorporated societies and have been an official of one over many years and many societies but when public submissions were called for a review of the Incorporated Societies Act 1908 it turned out that I was the only member of the public who provided a submission. So I feel as if I bring some authority to this matter that no other citizen of New Zealand has been able to do!—apart from the member the Hon Judith Collins who has just resumed her seat. I know that that member's background before she was in Parliament was as a lawyer. She ran her own very general sort of practice and I don't know this to be sure but I'd be surprised if she wasn't advising even in pro bono capacity some incorporated societies.I do point out that the Incorporated Societies Act 1908 is a piece of legislation of 36 sections and in order to legislate for effective incorporated societies frameworks we now have a piece of legislation that will run to 261 sections. Now that may well be a consequence of accumulated wisdom over many years of the Incorporated Societies Act in action and some litigation that goes with it much of which oddly enough comes out of the racing industry but I'll go no further than that.Just to respond to the point that the Hon Judith Collins made in relation to clauses 53 and 54—and I just make the point that I think it is important that our statutory framework does give a signal to members who take on the task and the role of being a committee member or an executive member of an incorporated society even if it only has modest cash flows and modest assets that nevertheless if the incorporated society is entering into contracts taking on obligations then it is important that those making those decisions do so with appropriate solemnity and take seriously the capacity of the incorporated society to bear those obligations. So I have no objection particularly to clause 53 and the requirement that an officer must not agree to activities that would put creditors at risk. I think that's an appropriate signal to send and a reminder to those who sit on those committees that actually amidst all the fun of the tennis club or the racing club or the whatever or the trade union—the part of—because that's a lot of fun as we know there are some serious obligations that go with it.In relation to clause 54 my interpretation of that clause differs from the member who's resumed her seat. When it says An officer must not agree to the society incurring an obligation unless the officer believes … on reasonable grounds that the society will be able to perform the obligation" I relay to the House—and I'll do it as anonymously as I can because I did know the person involved—that I witnessed a lived example of a member of a sport club who was on the committee and whose club was involved in a reasonably serious seasonal competition in their chosen code and so frustrated were they after several summers—I give no hint of what the code is—of the performance of their lead team that this person a committee member went to the United Kingdom and spoke to a professional in this particular code and invited that professional to spend a summer or two in New Zealand and clearly made some other promises because what the committee later found exercising its collective role in meeting was that they are up for a range of obligations to support this professional person to do this. The person who effectively incurred those obligations had no authority to do so and it seems to me that that is the mischief that clause 54 is trying to get to and again I think that that is an appropriate signal to send in a modern incorporated society's statutory framework.If I could just speak more generally for a moment I think it is great that this House has got to this point with a great deal of consensus in modernising our incorporated societies legislation. It is a very important piece of legislation to have because incorporated societies in New Zealand are very much the engine room of civil society in New Zealand. There are so many societies and I used to say that I can't think of one aspect of human endeavour in New Zealand where you would not find a collection of people who have put together a society and as the Hon Judith Collins said it is usually voluntarily and usually supported by professionals who does so on a pro bono basis and makes an extraordinary contribution whether it's to their local community to a bigger city or indeed to the country as a whole. That's one of the great things. It's one of the great levellers I think in Aotearoa New Zealand. It's what keeps us all engaged with each other regardless of our backgrounds and what-have-you.It is good that we have stepped up and modernised this particular piece of legislation. I think this piece of legislation answers many of the problems that I think many societies and many members of societies and their officers have experienced over the years. So it's good to see with some specificity what must be in the constitution of an incorporated society and once again to reiterate that members cannot gain financially from being a member of the incorporated society or indeed an officer of it. There is clarity about the election of officers. There is now at least a signal towards some dispute resolution—it is possible to put into an incorporated society's constitution and rules the ways to resolve disputes including arbitration providing it doesn't cut across other statutory rights that people may have. That I think is very good.It is very good to see too the confirmation of the significance of the constitution. It is effectively a contract between members and a contract between each member and the collective that is the society. That has always been the legal status and so it's important to members to see that when they sign up to the society and become a member pay their dues or do whatever it is that qualifies them to be a member of the society they are buying into a commitment or obligations for want of a better term—not commercial obligations obviously—to one another in that incorporated society. That is clearly indicated in this legislation.Another thing that I'm very pleased to see—which is certainly not in the current legislation—are the provisions in relation to amalgamation. This was certainly a bugbear of mine when I was a union secretary at a time when we were dealing with amalgamating with other unions who were also incorporated societies. There was actually no mechanism or provision for incorporated societies with comparable objects or comparable purposes and of a kindred nature to amalgamate very easily. They had to go through quite an extended process of resolutions to disestablish and then incorporate assets and then consider the tax liabilities of doing so. It was very convoluted and in terms of professional fees a very expensive process to go through. So it is great to see that now as part of the new statutory framework there is a way for societies to amalgamate.I think the reality is that the way things are going as our communities grow what often starts out as small disconnected groups with a common objective—might then want to come together because they have a common purpose and consolidate their membership their assets and the general intellectual wisdom that leads them and bring them together into a single organisation and it will now be much easier to do so.There are now also provisions for members to make requests for information and I know this was always a bugbear—not that when I was a union secretary and running an incorporated society we were ever averse to giving information to members that they wished to have but there was always this thing about still observing the Privacy Act and we still had to observe other legal obligations and requirements too. This new clause clause 74 now lays out very clearly the right of members to get information relevant to them that's held by the incorporated society but also the obligation on the incorporated society to observe the obligations of the Privacy Act and other things as well and also the right of members to get information presented to an annual general meeting. We know that's one of the big bugbears for a lot of members particularly when an incorporated society is going through a difficult time because they want to get their financial information and they want to know what the future might look like for an organisation they might have been involved in. I've seen not in organisations I've been involved with but in others these tremendous disputes about getting just some basic financial information that every member must be entitled to. That is now made very clear in the bill.I commend all members of the House for getting this bill to this state. I think it is in a very good state and it will build great confidence not just to members but for those charged with running incorporated societies. It gives confidence to them in discharging their duties and responsibilities and it will make for a better life for all New Zealanders in those little activities that we all do to keep our interest piqued and to keep life good."