Boyack Rachel; Doocey MattRACHEL BOYACK (Labour—Nelson): Thank you Mr Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to engage in the committee of the whole House on this important piece of legislation. Can I just foreshadow a couple of things. Obviously we are taking this debate clause by clause and to start with it is the title clause but I understand that that actually allows broad and wide contributions from members and questions to the Minister around the purpose of the bill.The other matter I just want to note of course is that we aren't having the opportunity to take this through the select committee. So I know that a number of my colleagues have got some quite detailed questions that they do want to ask of the Minister and through the Minister his officials. So we are looking forward to being able to ask a number of questions and to be able to engage with the Minister around those answers. So I just want to touch on I guess that overall purpose of this bill that has come to the House. As has been traversed tonight during the first and second reading there has been a discovery that perhaps ACC has been operating outside of its legislative scope. We've seen in the regulatory impact statement some commentary that has been provided to the House and to the Minister about the two sections in the Act that interact with each other and that ACC has been operating in good faith to use the words in the Act to charge a debit interest payment. What has happened is that the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment (MBIE) has said Actually we think there's some grey in that area. We think there's some grey. We don't quite agree with ACC's practice which has been occurring for 20 years but in good faith." Particularly the Act talks about an administration payment and it talks about a payment to collect the levies. Where MBIE has that concern that they've addressed is that that does not offer clarity about the specifics of a debit interest payment.So we have heard tonight that the purpose of charging interest on payments for those who pay by instalment is to ensure that ACC is not out of pocket as a result because businesses including sole traders pay for their levies usually all at once upfront. Under the operations that ACC have been running for the last 20 years they have allowed people to pay in instalment but in order to do that have added a debit interest payment.So my first question to the Minister that I'd like him to give us some commentary on—and this is one of a number of matters that we will be raising with the Minister tonight—is actually about that advice that he's received from ACC. So what advice has he received and if he can elaborate a bit on that advice that he's received from ACC specifically around those sections of the Act. I will just pull them out for him; I'm sure he has them available but I'll be helpful. We're talking specifically about section 234(2) of the Accident Compensation Act which states that ACC "may charge a reasonable fee to recover its costs of collecting any levy by instalments." So what is a reasonable fee? Does that reasonable fee include a debit interest payment? But then it goes further to state that regulations may prescribe "the matters in respect of which fees or charges are payable under this Act including any administration fee payable in respect of levies paid in instalments:" which is section 333(1)(b)(i).In the regulatory impact statement which I must say I do want to commend officials for what was a very well-worded in plain language—which of course most people in the Chamber know is of importance to me—regulatory impact statement that made the policy problem—Hon Chris Bishop: We're going to repeal that too—don't worry.RACHEL BOYACK: Oh sure because you put it in the member's box. Yep that's going to work! The question that we have is we've got—Hon Chris Bishop: You've just reminded me to get on with repealing it. I can't wait. Thanks for the reminder. I forgot about your stupid bill.RACHEL BOYACK: Oh look it's great. The interjections are really helpful. I might just need to—Mr Chair I'm going to need to take another call.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Mr Bishop when the Chair calls—stand withdraw and apologise.Hon Chris Bishop: I withdraw and apologise.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): When the Chair calls you will listen. I appreciate it's late at night and we're all a little excited but we will still keep some order.RACHEL BOYACK: Mr Chair I'd just like to be able to finish my contribution thank you Mr Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): I'll give you 10 more seconds.RACHEL BOYACK: My question was around the advice that the Minister has received about the interaction of those clauses and the advice that he's received from both ACC and from MBIE. Thank you Mr Chair.Hon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for ACC): Oh look thank you very much Mr Chair. As that member Rachel Boyack said first clause title and it is going a bit wider but I'm happy to answer them because I know when we get to those specific clauses that'll help speed them up as well.I do want to acknowledge what Rachel Boyack said about the work that the officials have done on this bill—getting it in the shape and the advice that they have provided. And even one official who's not in the Chamber but she actually had tickets to the Hurricanes Highlanders game tonight and unfortunately wasn't able to go because this bill is up at the moment. So just thank you to the officials who serve Parliament fantastically.Look there's obviously been the issue raised about uncertainty but I suppose as a Minister I get a range of advice. And what I can assure the committee is in fact there is real certainty and agreement between ACC and the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment who both agreed this legislative change in the House tonight to bring certainty to this issue."