Robertson GrantHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): The Government on behalf of New Zealand exercises a 52 percent shareholding in Air New Zealand. Air New Zealand is a company that has served New Zealanders incredibly well over recent times. It was a very challenging period for every airline in the world when COVID-19 hit. And one of the things that happened when COVID-19 hit was that Air New Zealand—like other airlines it has a very extensive programme of investments already put out for the future it also has a very expensive day-to-day running cost. And in that situation and in that moment the Government of New Zealand on behalf of the people of New Zealand made sure that the airline did not become insolvent. That was the prospect facing New Zealand and Air New Zealand. So a $900 million loan facility was announced. That is a good example of the way in which a Government-backed airline can not only provide terrific services to its people and to people who want to come here but also represent a particularly sound investment option where it is the situation we have in New Zealand where it is 52 percent owned by the Government and 48 percent owned by other shareholders.To answer part of Mr Seymour's question: he will be pleased to know that the share price for Air New Zealand is around about $1.77 today. It is up 74 percent from last year up from last month and with a great deal of confidence that an airline—and think about this: this is an industry that has been put on its knees by COVID-19 and Air New Zealand is up from a year ago in part because of the confidence that has been built up by the fact that this is an airline with a majority shareholder who cares about making sure that the business works and cares about making sure that we have an airline that will service all New Zealanders.The other problem for Mr Seymour is that it is quite clear he's never served in a role in Government where you're required to work with a State-owned enterprise because Mr Seymour they all get letters of expectation—all of them. So Mr Seymour was very very worried for example about weather forecasting before. He was very concerned there I presume about the MetService. All of them get letters of expectation—that's what we do. It's the way we express the Government's expectation. But Mr Seymour hasn't been there so he doesn't know that. When it comes to Air New Zealand the way in which the Crown—the Government; the 52 percent shareholder—is expressing its expectations is exactly what a majority shareholder would do in the private sector as well; that's exactly the way it plays out. We make clear our expectations as the majority shareholder.Now nothing in the letter than was sent to Dame Therese Walsh is a surprise to Air New Zealand. It is the subject of the conversations that we have been having with Air New Zealand over the course of the last year in the wake of COVID-19. Absolutely everything written in that letter has been the subject of what we as a Government have discussed with them.It is important to note as the member did that the objectives of Air New Zealand remain to be commercially sustainable and a capital-efficient business—that's important. That's one of the ways in which New Zealand will be well-served by having a sustainable airline that's able to go about its business. But as the 52 percent shareholder the Crown on behalf of the people of New Zealand is rightly expressing the other things that we want from our ownership stake. And the first of those is the concept of a national airline. And nothing has been more important during the COVID-19 period than having a national airline. The ability for the Government to be able to support airlines to be able to fly in and out of New Zealand to make sure that our exports continue to fly when airlines around the world were shutting their services down—that would have shut New Zealand's exporters out from the world—having a national airline one that we 52 percent own allowed us to be able to continue to support those exporters. So actually this is why we do this.Now Mr Seymour has an ideological objection to public ownership; I get that. That's fair enough. If that's how he feels about it that's fine. But what COVID-19 has demonstrated is that it matters to New Zealand that there is a public stake in this airline and it's part of why that is in here.The second element of the letter that Mr Seymour chose to highlight was the idea that there was some outrageous proposition that the Government as the 52 percent shareholder might ask Air New Zealand to maintain a comprehensive domestic route around New Zealand. Now under Mr Seymour's vision of the way Air New Zealand would operate with the Government completely disinterested not part of it at all we wouldn't be flying into Hokitika we wouldn't be flying into Kerikeri we wouldn't be flying all around New Zealand and that's the question that Mr Seymour and Mr Bayly—who I know is worried about this as well—have to answer when Mark Mitchell says I want to get to Kerikeri." and they say "Sorry. No need for a comprehensive domestic route around New Zealand. No need for the airline to be able to get people from place to place." And I know there are members opposite who've lobbied very very hard to make sure that Air New Zealand flies to their particular destination their place in the world and that wouldn't be in Mr Seymour's vision.So the idea that there would be a comprehensive domestic network is clearly important in our reason for having an airline. The corporate citizen role the workplace relations role—these are all basic elements of being a good corporate citizen in the world and one that we would expect of all New Zealand companies and ones with public ownership.On the matter of environmental sustainability again here Mr Seymour's showing his inexperience again. This is a conversation with Air New Zealand. They want this. They know that the future profitability of any airline in the world relies upon adjusting to the carbon-constrained world that we're living in. Every airline in the world that wants to continue is working on this. So the idea that they would be engaging in the development of new aviation fuels is actually what will make them commercially sustainable into the future. Mr Seymour might deny climate change but happily enough the aviation sector actually gets it and they want to be a part of this.When it comes to the question of board membership again I don't know if Mr Seymour has worked this out but a 52 percent shareholder in any company of any description is going to have a say in who's on the board—it's how it works. And so the paper outlines the fact that we have that expectation. Of course we have that expectation. On behalf of New Zealanders if we were to take the approach that Mr Seymour is proposing we would be letting New Zealanders down. We'd have a 52 percent stake and we'd be washing our hands of it and saying it doesn't matter—that hasn't worked for New Zealand when it comes to an airline in the past and that is why that is in there.And then as indeed the member who moved the motion noted we've gone on to say that actually all of the duties those directors have still apply. They know that—they know that they can manage this business. It's only Mr Seymour and a handful of people with ideological reasons for opposing public ownership who have any problem whatsoever with a Government actually expressing why it is that we own an airline. And when we look at the future of Air New Zealand what we have outlined in our letter of expectations makes very clear to them what we as the 52 percent shareholder expect.For minority shareholders in a company like Air New Zealand one of the things that they get confidence from is the fact that when there is a public ownership of that other 52 percent—when it is owned by the Government—they know the Government's not going to let that airline fail. We demonstrated that in COVID-19. We stepped in to make sure that it didn't. There is in fact a premium for those minority shareholders in knowing that the majority shareholder will never let it go and that is what has happened here. We know that as a Government we are committed to ownership of Air New Zealand. Quite clearly if David Seymour was involved in the Government you couldn't guarantee that—it's open slather. The people of the regions of New Zealand would have to be wondering if they'd have an air service.And here's a challenge for Andrew Bayly when he gets up next. If he one day—decades into the future—ends up in a Government with David Seymour is he going to stand up for regional New Zealand? Is he going to make sure that regional New Zealand is served by Air New Zealand? Because that's what David Seymour just told us: no domestic route required. You don't have to guarantee anything. People all around New Zealand now know that David Seymour doesn't care whether or not they get serviced by Air New Zealand. So Andrew Bayly needs to tell us that.Of course one thing I would say about all of this is that it probably does push up Christopher Luxon's chances of running the National Party. If there's that much obsession on that side of the House about running airlines then I imagine that that would be probably now right at the top of their list.As a Government we've taken very seriously our role in making sure that the State-owned enterprises that we continue to manage and run on behalf of New Zealanders the Crown-owned companies and indeed the mixed-ownership model companies have continued to be able to run in such a way as they balance their responsibilities. They are listed companies in the case of Air New Zealand in those mixed-ownership model companies—the directors operate in that way. But as a majority shareholder on behalf of the Government and on behalf of New Zealanders I would be letting New Zealanders down if I simply stood back washed my hands and said "Let the market rule in this situation." That's not why we own an airline. That's not the reason we do it. We have a majority stake in an airline because it's a critical part of our infrastructure of our economic development of our tourism offering—all of those things are important. And if we as a Government were to step back and do as Mr Seymour would have it then we would not be acting in the best interests of New Zealand. He is also I think taking a very limited view of the capability of corporate governance in New Zealand. All of the people that we look to appoint to Air New Zealand and indeed the people who are on the Air New Zealand board understand that when they are in Air New Zealand they're part of something with a massive legacy to New Zealand. They're part of something that matters to people in communities all over New Zealand. They're part of something that matters to our economic development. They're proud to serve on that Air New Zealand board and they know that it's a board where there is majority public ownership—they knew that going in.This letter is writing down putting on paper the expectations of us as the Crown on behalf of New Zealanders for what we're looking for from our airline. It will continue to be commercially viable because it is a good airline with a great reputation but it's also an airline in the middle of the worst global crisis for airlines that we have ever seen. And like other countries around the world all of those Government-owned airlines and indeed private-owned airlines are taking another look at their business model. They're taking a look at what the future looks like when tourism won't return in the way that it has been for some time. They're taking a look at it in the context of climate change. All of that is about making sure we've got a modern airline that is focused on serving the needs of all its shareholders and at the same time doing the right thing as a national airline. If there are people who are ideologically opposed to us having that playing that role that is for them to decide. But on this side of the House we are committed to ensuring New Zealanders and New Zealand exporters have access to that kind of airline. And we have not seen I don't believe in this period of COVID any diminution of the duty of Air New Zealand directors as both corporate directors and on the role they play in making sure that that national airline operates.I am extremely proud of Air New Zealand. I think it is an airline that has served New Zealand well. It's had its ups and downs. Many of those downs Mr Seymour is when the Government did exit from it and then what happened? Michael Cullen had to come in and rescue it because it had gone wrong. Mr Seymour has this absolutely blind ideological view that if the private sector's running it it'll be brilliant and if the public sector's running it it won't work. Well that didn't happen in Air New Zealand Mr Seymour and the Government had to step in and sort it out.The Government stepped in again under COVID-19 and sorted it out and now we're going to continue to work with Air New Zealand to make sure that they yes are a commercially successful airline but they are also able to achieve these objectives on behalf of their majority shareholder. There is a reason why we own Air New Zealand and it is to make sure that we achieve the objectives that are in this letter. There is no doubt in my mind that any Government who went through COVID-19 in the way that our Government did would end up writing a letter like this to put down on paper why a national airline matters.I am pleased to have written the letter. I know that Air New Zealand will continue working with us to make sure our people our exporters and our communities are well-served despite the ideological views opposite."