Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeMāori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading[Sitting date: 19 November 2013. Volume:695;Page:14921. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment BillSecond ReadingHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of Māori Affairs): Tēnā koe. I moveThat the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. I would like to thank the Māori Affairs Committee for its consideration of this bill. Nō reira e te Komiti Māori nā koutou i whakarite tēnei kōrero mō te pire nei i tātari ā i whakatakoto kia wānangahia e te whakapiringa tangata o tēnei Whare hoi anō tēnā tātou.[So to you the Māori Affairs Committee which considered this discourse about this bill deliberated it and recommended that members of this House debate it acknowledgments to us collectively.]The Māori Affairs Committee has considered changes proposed in the bill and has recommended that it be passed with a small number of amendments. The amendments seek to strengthen the Crown-Māori relationship by softening the tone of some of the words in provisions relating to spectrum management and future reviews of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Act 2003. The committee has also expressed its concern about the status of some of the constituent groups that make up Te Pūtahi Pāoho the Māori Television Electoral College. I will update the House on the latest changes to Te Pūtahi Pāoho later in this speech.The Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Act 2003 established the Māori Television Service. It also specified that a review of the operation of the effectiveness of the Act be undertaken in 2008-09 with a report to Parliament and recommendations for any amendments to the foundation legislation. This bill is a result of that review. This bill does not propose major changes to the principal legislation. The changes are fine-tuning in nature so that the Māori Television Service is well positioned for the digital switch-over and can continue its strong focus on promotingour language and our culture. Digital switch-over is scheduled for completion in December 2013.The bill seeks to make minor changes to the function of Māori Television Service to strengthen its focus on Māori language and culture to update arrangements for spectrum management and the contents of Māori Television Service accountability documents to address arrangements for borrowing and investments by Māori Television Service and to update arrangements for the timeliness of future reviews and other miscellaneous matters.I would like to talk about comments in the Māori Affairs Committee report about the composition of Te Pūtahi Pāoho. The committee has noted its concern about the current composition of Te Pūtahi Pāoho. At the time this bill was being considered by the committee a number of the member organisations of Te Pūtahi Pāoho were either no longer active or not registered as an incorporated society. The committee rightly notes that this was an untenable situation for Te Pūtahi Pāoho and could open it to criticism.On 26 August 2013 I was advised by Te Pūtahi Pāoho that it had accepted the withdrawal of the National Māori Congress and Kawea Te Rongo from Te Pūtahi Pāoho. Pursuant to section 14 of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Act I am progressing an order in council to confirm the removal of these organisations from Te Pūtahi Pāoho. I can advise that Ngā Kaiwhakapūmau i te Reo has also been re-registered as an incorporated society. These recent actions address the concerns expressed by the committee in its report. I am advised by my officials that a letter has since been sent to the chair of the committee explaining these recent developments.With the withdrawal of the National Māori Congress from Te Pūtahi Pāoho I would like to give thanks to the former chair Mr Tūwhakairiora Williams. Nō reira e Tū tēnā koe i ārahi ake i te waka nei a Te Pūtahi Pāoho. Nāhau te karanga kia hoe tahi ā kia haere whakamua tēnei waka.[So congratulations to you Tū who escorted this vessel Te Pūtahi Pāoho and made the call to paddle in unison so that this vessel moves forward.]I acknowledge also the new chair Mr Willie Jackson who I am sure will continue the committed work of his predecessor.I indicated in the first reading speech for the bill that I intend to undertake further work to review the composition of Te Pūtahi Pāoho and that this work will be coordinated with relevant work streams in Vote Māori Affairs. If there are further changes to the membership of Te Pūtahi Pāoho I will advise the House at the appropriate time. A Supplementary Order Paper for the Committee of the whole House has been prepared. It seeks to update the commencement date of this bill. This is a minor technical but necessary amendment.In conclusion I am pleased with the progress of this bill. The select committee process has not seen the requirement for significant changes to be made to the bill. I am heartened by this as it suggests that those with interests in this bill are satisfied with the detail of this piece of legislation. I commend this bill to the House.CLARE CURRAN (Labour—Dunedin South): Māori Television is New Zealand’s indigenous broadcaster. It provides a wide range of local and international programmes for audiences across our country and also online and it is internationally recognised. Māori language is at the heart of Māori culture and New Zealand’s unique cultural identity and the Māori Television Service’s vision for Māori language to be valued is that it is to be valued embraced and spoken by all. Māori Television was launched in 2004. It is almost 10 years old—and I think that that is a really important point first up to acknowledge in this House today—and in those 10 years it has largely achieved its objectives.I want to pay particular tribute here today to my colleague the late Parekura Horomia for his courage and determination in establishing Māori Television. It could be described as a taonga so today I put it to you that we should keep it that way. I would also like to acknowledge the contribution of Jim Mather as the outgoing Chief Executive of Māori Television who through recent years has steered New Zealand’s only publicly funded television station to a place of great value in New Zealand’s broadcasting environment.In contrast though the appointment process of a new chief executive is currently under public scrutiny—high public scrutiny—and is certainly under a cloud due to the highly questionable and certainly botched process under the auspices of its current chair and former National Party MP Georgina te Heuheu. This process which reeks of cronyism and dodgy practice resulted in a highly regarded and experienced board member Ian Taylor resigning from the board over the process used well before questions were asked in this House. Government Ministers have subsequently ducked for cover because they know that it is a bad look. The Minister of Māori Affairs who is the Minister in charge of this Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill should recall that Māori Television is in the good place that it is in today because of the utmost care and transparency that surrounded its appointments and mandate after some mistakes were made in key appointments at its beginnings.A publicly funded media organisation should be scrupulously independent from Government Ministers and MPs past and present. Neither the shareholding Minister nor Māori Television will make public the detailed reasons why Ian Taylor left the board but when that information comes to light as it surely will then the role played by the board chair will be exposed and we will certainly have more to say on this matter. Her role will be exposed and her position may well be untenable.This bill appears on the face of it to be quite straightforward but it certainly is not. Labour is supporting this bill but I want to explain to the House some of the complex issues surrounding it and the questions that remain. It does seek to make some minor changes to the functions of Māori Television to strengthen its focus on the language and the culture but importantly it allows for the current analog spectrum that Māori Television runs on to be switched to digital which frees up more spectrum for up to possibly eight digital services. This is important and this is why we are debating this bill under urgency because that has to happen by the beginning of December—by 1 December. What is the date today—what is the date today?Hon Members: The 20th.CLARE CURRAN: It is 20 November. That is pretty close so it actually has to happen. That is why we are debating this bill under urgency today and I think we should all acknowledge that.This bill also requires the Crown to transfer the management rights to Te Pūtahi Pāoho over that spectrum for the establishment of a digital terrestrial television network over a 20-year period. As the Minister has acknowledged there certainly was concern raised in the Māori Affairs Committee about the membership and governance of Te Pūtahi Pāoho and I put it to you that without those questions being asked that situation would never have come to light and there would have been potential mismanagement by an organisation that has been revealed to contain organisations within it that do not even exist any more.Even the commentary on this bill which was agreed to by everyone on the committee says: “We consider that the current situation exposes Te Pūtahi Paoho to criticism as some of the constituent groups appear to be defunct. We recommend that this issue be addressed with some urgency”—which the Minister has acknowledged is being undertaken but—“… We were also assured by the relevant officials that this wasbeing addressed. We [noted] that the relationship between the Crown Minister and Te Pūtahi Paoho needs to be clarified which would be [we hoped] achieved by the amendments we recommend [in this bill].” This could be described as a dog’s breakfast of a management situation that we are putting this newly converted spectrum into and this is something that this side of the House remains concerned about.It raises questions around whether the Government has its house in order in passing a bill that transfers the management of valuable spectrum to an organisation that is clearly not properly constituted or properly functioning. In the Committee stage of this bill I would like the Minister to answer more questions on that matter and on what is intended to be done about it because it also raises questions about what this spectrum may be used for down the track and who will ultimately make decisions on its use. I do have three questions that I would like to put on the record today around that and they are: will any revenue from the potential sale or lease of surplus frequency be returned to Māori Television? If that was to occur will any surplus—i.e. that not required by Māori Television—have to be offered back to the Crown first or to Kordia; if so how would its value be determined and why? And this is an important one: why does Māori Television itself not control the full frequency? I ask why this organisation which is about to turn 10 years old does not have control over that frequency which it was set up to have. It does have the pride of place in our country and should be given the full value that it is accorded.This brings into question the wider question of the spectrum for public use. Māori Television is our only publicly funded TV station. It is not a public broadcaster in the real sense of the term. It has a particular mandate. We no longer have a public television broadcaster in this country since this Government axed TVNZ 7.Until very recently we had another problem because we had no broadcasting spectrum that was owned by the Crown—and will not have until members on this side of the House get into Government and decide to reintroduce public television in New Zealand. But there was not any spectrum. Interestingly just weeks ago on 23 October we had an announcement from Sky television that it was handing back to the Crown four multiplexes or groups of analog spectrum which is the equivalent of 30 to 35 national TV channels. Sky has been sitting on this unused spectrum for years. It had to make a decision by the beginning of December to either convert it to digital or hand it back which raises questions—raises many questions—around this.First of all I have just a couple of things to say and two observations. The first is to say thanks to Sky. Thanks for returning that spectrum. Secondly those frequencies should remain with the Crown. But the questions are: when was the Government advised formally or informally that Sky was handing this back and what was the relationship between this on the face of it magnanimous decision to hand it back with no demand for payment and the wet bus ticket decision of the Commerce Commission just 1 week before—while Sky’s contracts with the internet service providers reduced competition and probably breached the Commerce Act—that it was not going to do anything about it? Why did Sky wait until the last possible minute to hand back this spectrum? This raises many questions about the way the Government manages spectrum what that spectrum will be used for and whether that spectrum will be sold.Hon TAU HENARE (National): Kia ora Mr Assistant Speaker. I was going to give a very very lovely Tau speech. I was going to talk about Māori TV and even congratulate the Māori Affairs Committee on a job well done—on a job in fact where the questions that were raised by members of the Māori Affairs Committee have turned out to make some changes to what is the Māori Television Service and what is the Māori Television Electoral College.I got a tweet this afternoon from none other than Clare Curran saying that if it was not for her none of the hard questions would have been asked. I mean for goodness’ sake! It is 2013 and this—I do not use these words often—Pākehā lady from Dunedin comes to our select committee. She is not a member of our select committee but she comes to our select committee. She does not think any of the natives on that select committee or the other Pākehā people on that committee can ask any hard questions. What she is out there saying and tweeting is: “They couldn’t do their job. I’m Clare Curran. I’ve come in on my white horse”—I do not know whether it was a white horse or not; actually I just made that part up—“and I’m the one who’s asking the correct questions.” But she fails to realise that questions were actually asked by the late Parekura Horomia way before she even came to our select committee questions were asked by Shane Jones and questions were asked by all of the committee members including the Green Party and including—well I was going to say New Zealand First but he is not a member of New Zealand First any more and I am not talking about myself. Questions were asked by those members of the committee. And I tell you what. It was through those questions that were asked by all of the committee—Clare Curran: Well how about talking about the issues?Hon TAU HENARE: Oh be quiet. Be quiet. You had your turn. You had your turn. The questions that were asked were asked by all of the committee and in fact it was through those questions that MrTūwhakairioraWilliams actually stood down from being the chair ofTe Pūtahi Pāoho. It was because of those questions that we asked that we have Willie Jackson who is the chair now of the new organisation.Tracey Martin: For now.Hon TAU HENARE: Oh for now—well for whenever. It does not matter. The fact of the matter is that we did our job. We knew what we were doing. And it was not Ms Clare Curran riding into our select committee trying to help us. You want to read the tweet. You want to read the tweet. I tell you it smacks of that old colonial European thing that the old natives cannot do the job by themselves. And I tell you what. Guess what? We have done the job. I commend this bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill to the House.KRIS FAAFOI (Labour—Mana): Taloha ni and tēnā koe to you Mr Assistant Speaker. It is a pleasure to speak to the second reading of theMāori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. I follow the chair of the Māori Affairs Committee Tau Henare who is obviously feeling a bit needy today. He wants to make sure that his select committee and the work that was done on this bill during the select committee process was good and thorough and that it asked the right questions. I say to that member well done to the Māori Affairs Committee for making sure that this piece of legislation has gone through. But as you asked questions we are entitled to ask questions as well.There are a number of questions that my colleague Clare Curran has raised about the analog spectrum that is about to become digital spectrum about the ownership and where that lies and about what profit and what moneys will come of that. They are very pertinent questions because basically that spectrum is being taken off Māori Television and being put in another entity and to what end? As Clare Curran says that one analog spectrum can create up to eight or 10 digital television channels. The ability for Māori Television to hold on to those and use those in the future could have allowed for huge revenue-gathering by the Māori Television Service. To sell those off or to lease those off to create more revenue to make sure that its goal of making sure that the Reo their language and their culture are enhanced through the Māori Television Service could have been enhanced by having the rights to lease that spectrum. But in this case it is being put into another entity at arm’s length from the Māori Television Service and weare not quite sure what that means for it. So I think they are absolutely valid questions that Clare Curran has put forward which were obviously criticised by Tau Henare. He can do that; that is his entitlement. But they are still absolutely valid questions being put by this side of the House.I would like to come back to this notion of questions because we have asked some questions around the appropriateness of the process around the appointment of a new chief executive at Māori Television. Just like the media have freedom to ask questions we too have the freedom to ask questions in this House and we have serious concerns about the process and the fairness in the process around the appointment of a new chief executive. There has been some criticism from the Māori Party and some others in New Zealand about the right of this party to ask questions. I would say to those people who criticise us for asking those questions: bad luck. We are the Opposition and it is absolutely our right. If we think there is an issue to bring to this House then we will ask questions. There is $36 million of taxpayer funding appropriated to Māori Television and we have to be absolutely clear that the person who is running that organisation is above board not just because of the money but because of the importance—and I think Clare Curran used the word “taonga”—the absolute importance of this Māori Television Service to the indigenous culture of New Zealand. We will absolutely ask those questions to make sure that that person is the right person for the job.Clare Curran also set the scene of the importance of Māori Television not just for Māori but also for non-Māori. I understand the vision of Māori Television. It is to make sure that the Māori language and culture is strong and that they have a voice and a face for the culture here in New Zealand so that they can influence celebrate educate and communicate with their people to expand the use of their language and to make sure that things that are very important to that culture are viewed around the country. I think many people would argue at the moment that Māori Television has become the default State broadcaster in New Zealand and I would have to agree with them to quite a large extent because if you have a look at some of the programming that it is running especially on special occasions—I can think of its huge Anzac Day coverage that it runs now—and of course a lot of sports that it is covering now it is certainly the default State broadcaster here in New Zealand.Māori Television has also come under fire for what I would call some hard-hitting journalism recently. There was some criticism in this House about that type of journalism. But I would ask that this House and those parties actually think about what they are saying because hard-hitting journalism—the likes of what we have seen onNative Affairs recently—absolutely can respect the tikanga of the Māori culture but also hold the values of journalism and good journalism about the way that they do things. I certainly think that what we have seen fromNative Affairs and the news department of the Māori Television Service is absolutely top standard and it is asking the right questions that need to be asked. If we do not like the way that the media are operating we can take some action against that. We have the right to complain but as a rule it is their job to hold us to account and to hold public office-holders to account. I think that they have done that very very well in the last month or two. We certainly know that the journalists from Māori Television are no soft touch. It may not suit everyone in this House but that is the reality that we have of living in a free democracy.So I think that Māori Television certainly ticks most of the boxes for what you can expect from a State-funded broadcaster. In fact in its statement of intent which the Minister of Māori Affairs who took the first call has mentioned today it says that one of the major outcomes that it wants over the next 3 years is to develop an independent Māori Television broadcaster that is relevant effective and widely accessible. I certainly think that it is doing that.The questions of who runs it and who the chief executive is are very important because that person needs to be fiercely independent and very importantly I think beyond political interference. I think that the situation we have got here at the moment—and it is yet to be fully proved but I think it will be in time—is that it seems that the process in appointing a chief executive at Māori Television and its independence and being beyond political interference is certainly under threat.There are some serious responsibilities under this bill that the Māori Television Service has to achieve. If I can just take this opportunity to read new section 8 “Functions of service”—because section 8 is being replaced—in clause 7 of this bill: “The principal function of the Service is to contribute to the protection and promotion of te reo Māori me ōna tikanga through the provision in te reo Māori and English of a high-quality cost-effective television service that informs educates and entertains viewers and enriches New Zealand’s society culture and heritage.” All of those things—Andrew Little: Different from TVNZ.KRIS FAAFOI: That is right. All of these things are very very important. So we have to have someone in that role who ticks a hell of a lot of boxes because they have to have a unique set of skills. They have to understand all things Māori whether it be the Reo whether it be the culture or whether it be the changing nature of the Māori population in New Zealand to make sure that the coverage that they put in their programming suits that audience. Obviously they also have to understand broadcasting have an eye on fast-changing technology they have got to grow the use of the language and importantly they have to be in charge of as I have mentioned roughly $36 million of taxpayer funding all up that is given to them each year. So all of those boxes have to be ticked very well and to not do that I think is doing a great injustice to the Māori Television Service.So we do have concerns about one of the people who was shortlisted for the chief executive job. The sources whom we have spoken to question the ability of that person to tick all those boxes I mentioned and particularly around two of those boxes which are independence and the ability of them to—I guess when you are looking at new section 8—cost-effectively run a television service. So they have to have very good financial skills and be cost-effective—so they have to have very good financial skills. So we do have some concerns around Paora Maxwell because we understand that he is a very close personal friend of the chair of the Māori Television Service who is the former National Minister Georgina te Heuheu.In the time line that the Māori Television Service gave in an Official Information Act request to the press gallery about the appointment process I think it said—and I am just going to try and hunt this down—that on 16 July Georgina te Heuheu put her hand up and said: “I have got a conflict of interest because someone on this list I know very well and is a good personal friend of mine.” Nowhere in any of the documents can I find anything to stack that up. So when on 16 July was that done? Maybe the Minister of Māori Affairs can help us there. I can find something from about 6 weeks later. But according to the Māori Television Service on 16 July Georgina te Heuheu said: “I have a personal relationship with this person. I am putting my hand up.” At least she did it.But we have also got problems with the previous employment of Mr Maxwell at Television New Zealand (TVNZ). Mr Maxwell can clear that up if he just says why he left. This can be easily concluded. Either TVNZ or Mr Maxwell can clear up why he left TVNZ.METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green): Tēnā koe Mr Speaker. Tēnā koutou e te Whare. I do not think I am going to take all the time that I have available for this call. We are very supportive of this legislation the Māori Television Service (Te AratukuWhakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. We are very pleased that the review has been completed and that the legislation came before the Māori Affairs Committee.The Green Party of course was one of only two parties that voted in favour of the Māori Television legislation in 2003 that led to Māori Television being established. It was a very proud moment for us and for me. I was a brand new MP. I had been in Parliament for less than a year and I remember negotiating—I cannot say I was particularly good at it—with Parekura Horomia who was the Minister of Māori Affairs at the time over how the service would be expanded and shared particularly amongst marae. There were a great deal of issues. It was momentous that the bill did pass but I would just note that only two political parties voted for it: us and Labour.Hon Annette King: So the National Party didn’t support it?METIRIA TUREI: The National Party did not support the legislation at the time.The legislation is now a little bit over 10 years old. It is as has been said previously unusual in that it is a creature of statute. The legislative provisions that established Māori Television will need to be reviewed on a regular basis and changes will need to be made according to changing times and technology and that is what has happened here. So it is quite reasonable for this legislation to have come before us and for the issues to be discussed.I was pleased to be a member of the select committee that considered it. I appreciate everybody’s contributions. Clare Curran made a good contribution and other members of the select committee made a great contribution. But I do understand where Tau Henare was coming from with his contribution this afternoon.One of the issues that have been raised around Māori Television and in the context of this bill is the one that was just raised by Kris Faafoi. I appreciate his very clear discussion and description of those issues but let us not think that this current issue with the appointment of the chief executive which is making a little bit of news is the first time that there have been any issues with the Māori Television Service. In 10 years there have been some teething problems and there have been issues raised in the public realm. Some of them have been more contentious than others under the Labour Government and under the National Government.This is an organisation that is comparatively young but has no doubt made an enormous contribution to New Zealand’s broadcasting scene.Hon Trevor Mallard: Much better than ATN.METIRIA TUREI: Thank you Mr Mallard. It is widely regarded as the best State television broadcaster in the country. I firmly believe that that is the case as do the Greens because it is 100 percent focused on the community that it serves. And having such a strong kaupapa for the people that it serves and the broad community that it serves it is able to deliver the kind of broadcasting that we would expect as a well-educated citizenry who are looking for stories and programmes that are focused on ourselves on our people on our culture on the interconnection between Pākehā and Māori culture and on news and current affairs of course which most politicians are mostly interested in.Actually Māori Television does a lot more than just news and current affairs. Māori Television provides a huge range of programmes that reflect Māori lives—real Māori lives—being played out. It is the kind of stuff you never see on any other television station in this country. It is all the good stories that you never see anywhere on television in this country and all of the self-made programmes where whānau are out there talking about themselves showing our whānau our kids our kuia and kaumātua and all of our nannies and our koros—showing us the way that Māori really live. It is just whānau—positive constructive doing amazing things and taking great care ofourselves our families and our communities. Again they are stories that you simply do not see on mainstream television.So to that extent I want to say to the Māori Television Service that you have provided a fantastic and incredibly valuable service to our country by the work that you do. Despite any legislative change we might need to make or regulatory change we might need to make—any of the issues that we bring as politicians to the debate—we have an obligation to make sure that this service is strengthened and at every turn is able to better meet the needs of the Māori community and communicate to the whole of the New Zealand community about its health and wellness and all the amazing contributions that the Māori community makes to our country.I would note that as in the example of news and current affairs a large bulk of the viewership of Māori Television is Pākehā because Pākehā are wanting to hear and see the stories by Māori of Māori as well. This is not just directed at Māori; this is about—Tracey Martin: Better programming.METIRIA TUREI: —yes—genuine programmes about our own communities where Pākehā are wanting to understand more. They are wanting to understand the Reo and all the different layers and levels of Reo that are provided. They are wanting to see their own whānau. I do not think we probably have a single Pākehā whānau in this country that does not have a Māori grandchild or a Māori grandparent. We are very integrated but that is not often reflected on any television anywhere except for the Māori Television Service. It is a service that provides excellent communication to Māori and Pākehā alike and that it why it has such strong support.So for all that there may be some changes needed—and I appreciate that the Minister has given the House an update on Te Pūtahi Pāoho and its membership; I think that is great. Issues were raised at the select committee and we have now had some changes as a result. There are still some ongoing controversial issues. They will no doubt be resolved in time. None of that should implicate or affect or in any way undervalue the fantastic service that Māori Television is providing to our country helping to bind Māori and Pākehā communities together and showing the true health and wellness of Māori communities and Pākehā communities working together in Aotearoa New Zealand. Thank you very much.NICKY WAGNER (National—Christchurch Central): Kia ora te Kaihautū. I rise to support the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. This bill is all about changing the functions of the Māori Television Service to better protect Māori language and to allow the service to establish a free-to-air digital terrestrial TV network. These changes will support Māori Television to become a world-class indigenous broadcaster and it is well on the way.The awareness and the use of Māori language Te Reo by New Zealanders has increased dramatically over the last 25 years—the last 25 years since Te Reo became an official language with the Maori Language Act in 1987. We can be proud of Māori media for supporting and growing our appreciation of Te Reo. Coincidentally it is 25 years since the establishment of Māori radio and broadcasting—25 years of presenting Te Reo on air for all New Zealanders. We now have 27 iwi radio stations broadcasting on 68 radio frequencies promoting Māori language and culture. Now all New Zealanders have the opportunity to listen and to watch regularly to enjoy and to learn.We can all see the effects of regular Te Reo broadcasts. New Zealanders in all walks of life of all ethnic backgrounds now know more about Māori culture and now use many Māori words on an everyday basis. These days they mostly pronounce them correctly and they have an appetite to learn more. I really look forward to hearing Māori spoken on a more regular basis in every location across the country and by people in all walks of life.This morning something special happened and this indicates that this could be very possible. The Māori Affairs Committee sat this morning between 8 a.m. and 9 a.m. Just as we were starting somebody came into the room by mistake. I love the fact that everyone in the room acknowledged that person everyone in the room acknowledged them cheerfully and everyone in the room acknowledged them in Māori. It was a chorus of various Māori greetings from all of us regardless of ethnicity and it was very special it was very satisfying and it was very appropriate.So I commend this bill to the House. Tēnā koutou tēnā koutou tēnā koutou katoa.RINO TIRIKATENE (Labour—Te Tai Tonga): Tēnā koe Mr Assistant Speaker. Tēnā koutou e te Whare. I am pleased to take a call in this second reading of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. I support this bill. Can I at the outset acknowledge our matua our late chief the Hon Parekura Horomia who championed the establishment of Māori Television when he was Minister of Māori Affairs. Māori Television definitely is a lasting legacy that he has left.I know that all of us and all of Aotearoa in fact are very proud of Māori Television. It is by default our New Zealand State broadcaster. You know when we watch shows likeNative AffairsTe KāeaCodeTōku Reo andHōmai Te Pakipaki those shows have been added to the lexicon of—Hon Tau Henare:Kai Time on the Road.RINO TIRIKATENE:Kai Time on the Road. There are so many great shows that this humble small Māori Television station produces. You know talk about what it can produce relative to the relatively meagre resources it has to work with compared with its very large commercial counterparts. I think it does an exceptional job. Along with acknowledging Parekura I do acknowledge the current and previous management and staff of Māori Television for the exceptional job that they did and they do and also in terms of the programming they create and that we get to enjoy when they broadcast over the network.I support this bill. I am very proud to be a member of the Māori Affairs Committee and I do acknowledge the member Nicky Wagner from Christchurch Central my colleague over there on the other side of the House because we are like a whānau. There was another special moment—two moments actually—that occurred this morning in our committee in terms of the opening. I will not share them—oh I might share it with the House actually because believe it or not we open with a karakia which is great. That is our custom. That is our tikanga. So we do open with a karakia and we usually share the job around. This time our dear tuahine over there volunteered to open for us. We are multi-denominational multiparty Māori Pākehā—you name it. That is us. We are all there for the kaupapa of the Māori Affairs Committee. We held hands when we had our karakia this morning to start and to conclude.Hon Tau Henare: What?RINO TIRIKATENE: Absolutely—Nanaia Mahuta was linked with Tau Henare. We had that circle we had that bond—the band of brothers and sisters—as we kicked off our Māori Affairs Committee and the important mahi that we do. In all seriousness it is special and important mahi that we do. I am pleased with the work we did at the committee level with the contribution from my colleague Clare Curran but also with the contributions from everybody because this is an important piece of legislation. It has been a long time in the making.The independent review that was programmed into the 2003 Act was started 5 years ago. We are nearly at the 10th anniversary of Māori Television and we are just now implementing in legislation the recommendations of that review. So it definitely has taken a while but we are nearly there. We have to get there. We are under urgency atthe moment and we need to get this legislation passed because of the digital switch-over that is happening in about a week’s time. So we have got to get all the ducks in a row for Māori Television.Not all of the recommendations of the independent review were picked up in the bill itself but a fair amount of them have been. I specifically refer to the amendments in the substituted section 8 in clause 7 which further refine the language of the function of the Māori Television Service. The main amendments in the bill are concerned with the management rights to the spectrum which are now vested in Te Pūtahi Pāoho. That is a very interesting development because I would have thought that those management rights could just be conferred on the Māori Television Service. I think that Television New Zealand can manage all of its part of the spectrum and make all of its decisions. I do not know; maybe they think they are giving too much power to the Māoris by giving those rights to Māori Television. Instead the responsibility for the management of the digital spectrum—4G the new flash high-definition multi-platform digital channels and other things that are yet to be developed—rests with Te Pūtahi Pāoho.It is true that we have raised concerns around the composition of that body. I think that too often we get pieces of legislation where we like to prescribe a hell of a—excuse me—where we prescribe—Iain Lees-Galloway: An awful lot.RINO TIRIKATENE: —an awful lot of rules and processes particularly when it comes to Māori bodies and Māori entities. This bill is a classic example because schedule 1 of the Act lists the organisations that make up Te Pūtahi Pāoho and through our inquiries as a select committee it was clear that some of those organisations were not operating. They were defunct. Some were deregistered from the incorporated societies register. So it needed to be cleaned up because there is statutory recognition of those organisations they have huge responsibility to appoint members and those members of the Te Pūtahi Pāoho body have very important statutory roles to play. They are the partners to the Crown in terms of Māori broadcasting and the relationship around Māori Television. So it was I think worthwhile that we made those inquiries. I guess initially the concern was that that is not part of the bill but Te Pūtahi Pāoho is a fundamental part of the Act and the bill so I think we really had to make those inquiries to make sure that we got to the bottom of the composition and that it was tidied up.To conclude we do support this bill. We are looking forward to going through the remaining stages. It has been a long time in the making in the running but I guess we are all looking forward to this new phase for Māori Television.Before I conclude I would just like to make some remarks about the chief executive or lack of for Māori Television. All I would say is that we like to talk about a waka but you cannot have a waka without a kaihautū. You have got to have that chief standing up against the wind directing his paddlers which way to go. This is an important new chapter for Māori Television and it is really important that it has its kaihautū in place to navigate it through these waters at this time. That is all I would say. I hope we can get the chief executive in place as soon as possible. I am looking forward to celebrating 10 years of Māori Television next year and many more to come thereafter. I support this bill. Kia ora tātou.CLAUDETTE HAUITI (National): I just want to pick up one major point that quite a few of my colleagues have been making which is around the minor amendments to the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. One of the amendments is quite major. It reads “the protection and promotion of te reo Māori me ōna tikanga” where previously it was about the protection and promotion of Te Reo me te tikanga. This amendment addresses the vulnerability of the integrity of Te Reo by changing that principal function the Māori language and its accepted andcustomary usage and that is really important for providers of programmes to the Māori Television Service.What it means is that it has implemented a measurable outcome for the service to achieve in terms of Te Reo and tikanga. That means then that programmes likeMister Eddubbed over in Te Reo Māori are no longer acceptable. Programmes like “The Happy and Hapless Home Videos Replayed” with a Te Reo - speaking presenter are now no longer acceptable under this classification of Te Reo Māori me ōna tikanga. This bill is about protection of the context in which the Reo is placed and how it is used and maintained. The context must enhance the mana and integrity of the Reo. I commend this bill to the House.Hon SHANE JONES (Labour): Tēnā koutou katoa. A little bit of whakapapa—kinship—which eclipses political affiliation caused me to be over there on the other side of the House for a mercifully short period of time. I stand to provide a little bit of background and history in respect of this bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill.It is important that we think right back to the efforts at Waiwhetū Marae where in the 1980s the original kohanga reo was established. Then there was a push to achieve recognition in the time of the Hon Koro Wētere for Te Reo Māori. That led to—Hon Clayton Cosgrove: A great man.Hon SHANE JONES: Well unlike the current Minister of Māori Affairs he was a great man. Then that led to Te Reo being regarded as a taonga as a manatunga. That led to the Māori Language Commission being formed and a host of other bodies. Māori Television has had a rather chequered history but we stand quite staunch in promoting it as an institution that plays a key role in the revival and dissemination of our language usages and customs that are often regarded as following in the wake of language development. It relies now on modern technology that the current Minister in his dealings with the Minister for Communications and Information Technology—i.e. I am talking about the spectrum which is now the new highway—and the current activists and future users of the language should look to. It is a shame that the Minister has failed miserably. Never have we seen a worse outcome for language activists.Indeed on Māori Television only tonight Piripi Walker one of the key members of Ngā Kaiwhakapūmau i te Reo—i.e. those who seek to provide permanent status of the language—was very diplomatic a little bit like myself. He did not quite say in candid terms that the Minister has been asleep not at the wheel but at the helm at the prow in the puku and climbing up the sail of this waka. Minister I say to you that this is a piffling contribution. On the day this is going through he has been told to keep quiet and accept this modest improvement whilst spectrum rights have been denied to the Treaty partner.A Government is entitled to treat an iwi how it likes but the Māori Party is not entitled to diminish to destroy or to betray the dreams of the Māori people and that is what has happened today. That is why although we stand and we see some modest improvements associated with this bill it is a very bleak day.It comes down to the quality of advocacy. I have had my differences with earlier Ministers of Māori Affairs. I had my differences at one stage when a former Minister Tau Henare decided to appoint Joe Williams who had been a lawyer and a judge of the Māori Land Court as a consequence of his intervention—a very bright guy but we were often at odds with each other about the iwi thesis. But that was a Minister who showed courage and boldness. This has been around for so long that members of the Māori media community and iwi have lost sight of where these improvements actually came from. But they are emblematic of the very lacklustre tired and largely irrelevantcontributions that the Minister has made. It is like keeping a rugby player who has faded to a point where he is better to be on the bench permanently.I had my misgivings about the Māori Television Electoral College. We had discussions on our side of the House and the sense was to allow the college to refine its processes and improve its own set of accountabilities. But a number of the organisations I have referred to as waka kihau which is the Māori way of saying in English ghost ships. We need to be absolutely sure because of the value of taonga and the capacity being transmitted that they do not decide to follow some whim of the Māori Party and promise to 72 iwis that they can all have their own radio station—an absurd idea—or their own TV station. This requires bulking up the resource bulking up the talent not atomising effort. I think it is very very sad on this particular day that Māori Television is covering onTe Karere evidence of the abject failure of the current Minister and his colleagues to have an inch of influence with the dowager of Te Wai Pounamu otherwise known as the Minister of Broadcasting. If there was ever evidence where the power imbalance lies here Māoridom have had it shown to them today.Unfortunately I do not have time to digress into the inordinately large consultancy fees associated with the Te Puni Kōkiri report. Some is related to the bill because it says “strategic advice”. But rest assured that scores of Official Information Act questions are being composed as we speak to seek justification as to why the Minister has been unable to attract enough talent into that particular organisation. Has that caused a delay in this bill being at the point it is? There were earlier reports lying behind this bill. One was by a panel called Te Kāhui o Māhutonga. It includes the Māori word for the Southern Cross Te Māhutonga. I think that Te Māhutonga the Southern Cross a key feature of navigation needed to be imprinted in the Minister’s mind so that he had a sense of how to navigate progress—not go round in circles not give in so easily and not be forced to back down whilst talking tough to the hapū and the iwi. These might sound rather jarring remarks but this is a robust House. It is the highest court in the land and we are drawing to an end. It is important that our people as they watch an improved version of Māori Television over the Christmas holidays contemplate the need—and the importance—for the Minister to receive a very sharp reminder of his total irrelevance to the behaviour and the conduct of where the power is which is not with the Māori Party.I need to come back and talk a wee bit more about dramas around the chief executive officer. At the end of the day the board appoints its own chief executive officer and I hope that it reaches a decision with alacrity. It has been very disturbing to learn that the former Minister the Hon Georgina te Heuheu put herself in a position that was very very awkward supporting a candidate who apparently—I have no evidence of this—left under a cloud from Television One. But all of it only goes to damage the perception initiated I must confess by the very idle approach shown by the Minister towards Māori broadcasting. When Koro Wētere and Parekura Horomia were around they had dramatic support from the highest levels of Government. Indeed I would say even in the time of Winston Peters and Tau Henare—they had their differences. That is cool. I occasionally have my own differences with some of my colleagues. That is part of being Māori in Parliament. It is exaggerated by the media. It occasionally happens with the Greens and I wear that often as a badge of honour but that is another matter.I would say that this bill although it collects our support shows that too little has been done. If you want Māori communities to improve the quality of language and the frequency of language and to broaden the language out so we overcome the cringe factor with regard to our Pākehā cousins in Aotearoa and other ethnic groups it needs leadership. Unfortunately the Minister of Māori Affairs for the last 5 to 6 years—intolerably long—has provided hopeless leadership. It is one thing to be a good hail-fellow-well-met sort of character but when you are dealing with powerful personalities as is the case in the National Cabinet there is no place for the old figure—i.e. of the 1950s—“Pai kare it’ll be right.” That belongs in the past. The quality of advocacy that has caused the collapse of Māori aspirations today in relation to spectrum rights—there are spectrum rights. There most certainly are. Indeed Labour went some way to recognising an entitlement there and made a grant to shunt forward Māori participation in the new emerging information and communications technology sector.It is important that we not overlook that the value of the language eclipses the efforts of politicians. Fortunately the language will live on in spite of the miserable efforts of the current Minister. That is cool that is politics etc. and that will change next year. But Māori Television has a bright future. Its future however depends on its board of governors choosing the right chief executive officer and Te Pūtahi Pāoho the waka kihau—the ghost ship—ensuring that this capacity and taonga is used to achieve the ends of the legislation which is to popularise the language throughout New Zealand as an ongoing feature of our indigenous identity and a contribution to multicultural New Zealand. Kia ora tātou katoa.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour—Hauraki-Waikato): I want to take a short call on this bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. I joined the Māori Affairs Committee towards the end of its consideration and can recount some of the discussion that may be useful in this part of its progress. There was a lot of discussion which members have pointed to around Te Pūtahi Pāoho and its role as an electoral college and concerns that some of its constituent organisations were not fully representative of the supposed interests that they are there to promote. We had quite an in-depth discussion about what more could happen but in the end we noted for all the reasons that my colleague Shane Jones has outlined in his discussion that it should not impede the progress of the bill.With regard to the digital switch-over the pragmatism of the select committee was that we wanted to ensure that Māori Television could continue to do what it does really well and let us face it: it is the public broadcaster of New Zealand. It does promote the identity of New Zealand in ways that we would not see on Television One or TV3. What it does is provide an access point for many New Zealanders to see our New Zealand through a different lens. We have a platform that promotes indigenous broadcasting. We have a platform that promotes Te Reo Māori through a number of mediums—throughHōmai Te Pakipaki through game shows through documentaries through sitcoms and the like and through Māori language learning programmes.One of the impacts of the review that will be a positive gain I think for the development of Te Reo Māori is to ensure that the language becomes more accessible in contemporary broadcasting terms. So as a mother of young kids I am absolutely delighted that Māori Television will be promotingDora the Explorer in Te Reo Māori. My son watches—Iain Lees-Galloway: AndSpongeBob.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: That is right—andSpongeBob Square Pants. I have to say that that is probably more for an older audience—probably for us in here. The point of it is that our children wherever they are live in a very diverse world. Whether it isDora the Explorer whether it is Māui whether it isDiego or whether it is something about dragons or something about taniwha the fact is that our children today are not limited to the world of Te Ao Māori and they want to have accessible access to what is on offer in their global community. That is the world that I am bringing my child up in and I am absolutely delighted that Māori Television has taken the step to ensure that there are programmes that are accessible in Te Reo Māori for a new emerging generation who see the world as their oyster who want access to the global indigenouscommunity and to the global community and who will see that through Māori Television. So I am certainly supportive of the aspects of this bill that will open up that prospect.The other part of the conversation that is important to this bill is I guess the future relationship of the Ministers responsible for Māori Television and how that relationship will continue with Te Pūtahi Pāoho especially in the future review of Māori Television. We ensured in the select committee and we took on board advice that there would be a good amount of negotiation and agreement around the terms of reference for the review of Māori Television. The benefit of doing that is to ensure as was initially envisaged when Māori Television commenced that the partnership approach to the governance and the setting of direction for Māori Television was one that would be done by agreement. With the hindsight of 20-odd years looking at how things have happened and could happen better I think this is a progressive step and a step in the right direction.Members before me have spoken about the governance issue. I really do not want to add too much more to what has been said except to agree with the comments of my colleagues certainly on the Labour benches that the governance of Māori Television is absolutely critical. It should not have a level of perceived interference by political appointments which recently became a part of the focus. The reason why I say this is that there will be some of us in this House who would remember that back in the days of Aotearoa Television it was not so easy to get over the threshold of having such an innovative approach to Māori language and Māori broadcasting through a Māori television station. So there is a spotlight whether people want to acknowledge it or not on everything that happens in this space. At the governance level it is I guess an area where we will have to assure ourselves that there is a robust and transparent way of appointing those who lead Māori Television.I have seen the growth of the people in the Māori Television space. Jim Mather has since left and gone to Te Wānanga o Aotearoa. He has certainly provided enough sunlight for talented potential to grow in Māori Television. It has been good to see the people who initially started at the lower levels or on the lower rungs if you like in the broadcasting space now assuming roles at the management level in the programming parts of Māori Television and can I make this comment. In an organisation such as Māori Television which I believe is making a huge contribution to the development of Te Reo Māori to see the growth of talent through that organisation being reflected in all parts of its operation is absolutely exciting. Whether those people are in front of the camera or behind it or negotiating the various programmes and the way in which Māori Television is marketed externally talent has been growing through this particular medium alone and I am really positive about the way in which Māori Television can go into the future.When I first used to visit schools and ask the kids: “Well what do you want to do?” initially the answer was: “Oh you know I think I want to be a teacher.” or it would be that they wanted to do law or commerce or things like that. Now it might be: “I want to get into tourism into hospitality into broadcasting—hopefully I am going to be making my own programmes on Māori Television.” and this is certainly what is reflected back from Māori young people within the school system. So that is the extent to which Māori Television has had a positive impact on another generation coming through.There are some aspects of the bill that I will be only too happy to allude to in the Committee stage in order to contribute to this debate but for this small part can I say again that notwithstanding the concerns around Te Pūtahi Pāoho the Māori Affairs Committee did not feel that those concerns were significant enough to impede the progress of the bill. But we still want to ensure that the Minister of Māori Affairs’attention around ensuring the robustness of that particular body and the fulfilling of its obligations is something that he may consider a watching brief. Nō reira i tēnei wā ka tuku te mihi atu ki a koutou katoa. Kia ora.Bill read a second time.Instruction to CommitteeLOUISE UPSTON (Senior Whip—National): I seek leave for this bill to be taken as one question.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well that is an instruction to the Committee because we will be in Committee for the next stage. Leave is sought that there be an instruction to the Committee to take the remaining stages in Committee as one debate. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There is none. Leave is granted.In CommitteeParts 1 and 2 and clauses 1 to 3CLARE CURRAN (Labour—Dunedin South): There has been much made in the discussion on the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill about the contribution of Māori Television to the broadcasting environment in New Zealand and its role over the last 10 years and its position as a taonga in our broadcasting environment. I would welcome during the course of this debate the Minister getting up and telling us what he believes has been that contribution what his vision is for Māori Television going forward and where he sees this bill fitting in as part of that vision going forward in particular in relation to the use of the spectrum which is really fundamentally why we are passing this bill under urgency—to get that spectrum.Because that spectrum has to be converted the law has to change by the beginning of December in order for that spectrum to be converted. That is why we are rushing through these last parts of this bill right now in order for that to happen. There has to be the context and the context is that the Māori Television Service—like Radio New Zealand like New Zealand On Air like every publicly funded entity that receives funding for broadcasting—has had its funding frozen for years now.Four years—I think probably we are heading into the fifth year of no extra funding and yet we are passing a bill today that transfers the analog spectrum to the digital environment which is a necessary factor. We are heading into the 10th anniversary for Māori Television and there is no talk at all about what the development of Māori Television is going to be and whether that includes a vision for high definition. In that case there will be a need for more spectrum because—Mr Chair for your edification—in order for the high-definition channel to be developed it requires a lot more spectrum than is the current amount of spectrum used for analog television.This issue is actually at the heart of the bill. How that spectrum will be managed who will manage it what decisions will be made about it and in whose interests they will be made are really the big questions that lie behind this bill. I think that the Minister of Māori Affairs during the course of the second reading will have received and hopefully taken note of those specific questions and will get on to his feet and provide us with some explanation and discussion around that.I would like to refer back to the briefing to the incoming Ministers—the Minister of Māori Affairs and the Minister of Finance. They are the Minister in the chair Pita Sharples and also the shareholding Minister Bill English. They have been referred to on a number of occasions as ducking for cover on the appointment of the new chief executive at Māori Television. They had a briefing from Māori Television in 2011. Thatbriefing referred specifically to the management rights and spectrum allocation and the impending change to digital television.That briefing raised questions—in a very polite manner but it still raised questions—about how that spectrum was going to be managed and who was going to manage it. It harked back to what happened in 2010 I think it was if I am correct—and correct me if I am wrong—when there was a lessening of the amount of analog spectrum for Māori Television which happened really under the noses of everybody and without much public comment. But there was a reduction in the amount of spectrum where Māori Television had no say. It was a reduction from 32 megahertz down to 16 megahertz. There have subsequently been concerns raised about whether in the future that may happen again and if it did happen again what role and what rights Māori Television would have to ensure that that did not happen and that it had some say in it.The other absolutely critical issue is around the funding for Māori Television and how it can manage its future in this environment in which funding has been frozen. We all know that the effect of funding freezes over a number of years actually equates to funding cuts because the service cannot continue to operate at the same level. I think we must put on the record that Māori Television and Radio New Zealand in that environment of frozen funding have both done exceedingly well in providing the service that they do to the New Zealand public in our straitened public broadcasting environment.But if we are to look at going into the modern digital environment where there are multiple platforms where there is the possibility of higher-definition television—as we should be considering and as we should be having the debate around—what ability will Māori Television have to do that? What rights will it have over the ability to do that through its spectrum? How will it do that if there is no ability for its cost structures and sources of income to be increased or reviewed and for it to actually take control of its own future?Given that this is the 10th anniversary of Māori Television in New Zealand I would like to get some indication from the Minister in the chair as to what his belief is what his vision is and what his ideas are around how Māori Television can take us into its second decade and perform that important role as a taonga in New Zealand.I would also like to reiterate my concerns around the management of the spectrum under the Te Pūtahi Pāoho structure and the governance structure in the context that as the Minister himself said in his second reading speech it is in a state of flux. There are question marks around the composition of the groups that make it up and its ability to perform those governance functions effectively to the standard that we need to have at the electoral college—that relationship between the Crown and the electoral college. So I would like to hear more from the Minister on that. I think there is a question mark and that question mark is in the commentary on the bill. It seems very ironic that we are passing a piece of legislation which we have to pass by the beginning of December in order to transfer that spectrum over where there is a huge question mark in the bill over the governance process of the management of that spectrum.I think as I said in my second reading speech that the Government really should have had its house in order in terms of that issue. It came up in the Māori Affairs Committee only under questioning from members of the committee on both sides. But it really did emerge only in the select committee because it certainly was not in the officials’ advice to the select committee. It really did emerge only during the discussions. Why was it that it came up only then? What are the Government and Minister doing about it to ensure that we can be reassured that Māori Television can progress can move into the modern era with the spectrum that is being transferred over can move into an era of high definition will have the amount of spectrum it needs to dothat will have some control over the way its spectrum is managed and more important will have its funding reviewed and hopefully increased?KRIS FAAFOI (Labour—Mana): I know at home the eyes of the people listening to this debate the Committee stage of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill may be glazing over because we are talking about spectrum—Clare Curran: Oh!KRIS FAAFOI: —not necessarily in particular reference to the previous speaker my colleague Clare Curran but because we are speaking about spectrum. Maybe I should not have said that. Because we are talking about spectrum sometimes—excuse the pun—that goes over the head of most New Zealanders. But what is important here is that because we are having what is called the digital switch-over on I believe 1 December an analog frequency that was allocated to Māori Television will under this bill be allocated to another organisation called Te Pūtahi Pāoho. It will be that organisation that essentially gets to utilise that old analog spectrum. Where that spectrum becomes important is that it can actually be transformed into a digital spectrum. In that spectrum there is the ability for eight digital TV stations to be carried so one old spectrum becomes a new digital spectrum in which you can broadcast eight TV stations.Why is this important? Because in the future if someone wants to start up a TV station and if the Māori Television Service had that spectrum it would have the ability to lease out one of those eight stations to make some money off it. But because there has been a transfer of that spectrum from the Māori Television Service to Te Pūtahi Pāoho it is taking away a potential revenue-gathering plan for the Māori Television Service. We have heard from my colleagues about the importance of making sure that the Māori Television Service has increased revenue. I think my colleague Clare Curran just made the point in her previous speech and Nanaia Mahuta made a reference to that in her second reading speech. So the question that I want to ask the Minister in the chair at the moment the Minister of Māori Affairs is: why? How will the proceeds of Te Pūtahi Pāoho’s management of that spectrum benefit the Māori Television Service which is forgoing the right to that spectrum? So if he can answer those questions that would be very useful.I think that the Māori Television Service would feel a little bit hard done by if it had this asset that is no longer going to be used but that could be used in a different way to make some revenue to host other broadcasters but that has now been taken off it. So to the Minister in the chair—and this specifically refers to paragraphs (c) and (ca) in clause 4(2) about the spectrum management rights—I ask: how is it going to be utilised by Te Pūtahi Pāoho? How will the funds from that if it makes any money from it go to the Māori Television Service or not? And why specifically has that spectrum management right been transferred from the Māori Television Service to Te Pūtahi Pāoho and not stayed with the Māori Television Service? I do not know whether there is a decent enough answer.I guess it goes to show that there is no real overarching vision from the Government around spectrum use. We have seen it in 4G. The Government has just announced—and I think my colleague has put a press release out today—its intentions to sell off the 4G network which has just become available. Instead of being able to ring-fence some of that 4G spectrum or think of other uses where it can be utilised it just says that it is going to flog them all off. As Clare Curran mentioned in I think her second reading speech very recently Sky television said it was going to give four packets of this analog spectrum back. So four times eight because of the theory I said before means that up to 32 television stations could be broadcast on the four packets of spectrum that Sky hasjust handed back to the Government. As of yet we have had no word from the Government as to what it intends to do with it.Just to give those at home an understanding of what these frequencies are worth one of those packets recently sold for about $1.7 million at the auction that the Government held. Am I right here? [Interruption] Yes it was roughly $1.7 million. So these are resources that have got some cost. Obviously in the future as digital technology gets better it may actually be able to hold more transmission capability. So if people want to start television stations here in New Zealand these are the kinds of things that they are going to need be able to broadcast. So they will have some future value. I would like to see an overarching strategy from this Government—I am not expecting one—as to how it manages the spectrum that has just become available to it from Sky and the spectrum in the 4G sphere which my colleague Clare Curran has already mentioned today and what it sees as the best fit. That is not just to hock them off to the highest bidder but to say: “OK if we’ve got four packets that have just come back from Sky television do we ring-fence some of that for any public broadcasting future?”.We have announced today that we think the Government should ring-fence one of those packets—one packet of analog which can be transferred into eight television stations at this moment—that has just been given to it to make sure that that is protected for any future public broadcasting. If the Government sells those four packets off to the highest bidder they are all gone. So if any future Government that is actually committed to public broadcasting like members on this side of the House wants to start up a public broadcaster there will be some spectrum available for us to do that. But what I fear will happen—and those members have gone quiet so this is probably what is going to happen—is that those four packets will just be hocked off to the highest bidder. So when it comes to the time for members on this side of the House to say that we want to start up a public broadcaster there will be zero spectrum available to us. So we will probably have to go back cap in hand to whoever bought that spectrum and say: “We need some of it back.” If I had bought that spectrum I would say: “Well things have changed. You really want to do this so you are going to have to buy it at a much higher price.” Well in the long run that is bad for the taxpayer because not only do we have to pay more for the spectrum but we could have held on to it and ring-fenced it so that we had the ability to not just start one but also have seven more television networks there on that spectrum.I will propose this challenge to the Government and maybe the Minister in the chair would like to see how this works for the Māori Television Service as well. This Government has the ability now to ring-fence spectrum to manage spectrum in a responsible manner for State broadcasting. You probably get to sell it or lease it only once every 20 years so what the Government does now is very important. It can either hock it off and it has a track record of doing that or it can say: “This is important stuff right now. We might be able to sell some of it but this is going to be saved for any future Government. They might want to do it”—again I am not expecting it—“for public broadcasting.” So that is another question that I might pose to the Minister in the chair around spectrum because this management arrangement in the bill seems a little bit strange to me. Again I guess it is a little bit symptomatic of a Government that does not have an overarching plan when it comes to spectrum.It is very important. People at home are actually watching Parliament TV now on spectrum. If they want to see any future public broadcasting stations there is going to have to be spectrum available there for it. So this Government needs to make a pretty hard decision: does it care about public broadcasting enough to ring-fence some spectrum or not? I think that this bill around the way that the spectrum from Māori Television Service is changing the management rights to Te Pūtahi Pāoho shows thekind of attitude that this Government has to spectrum. It does not really care. Well it should care because this future Labour Government will be committed to public broadcasting and we do want to make sure that there is spectrum available for it. If the current Government does not care about public broadcasting it will just sell that spectrum and we will all know the commitment from that Government to public broadcasting. So it will all be down to a decision that the Government will make very soon about whether it sells it or keeps it. If it sells it then you know that this Government does not care about public broadcasting. If it keeps it well it has proved the critics wrong.I would ask though that maybe the chair of the Māori Affairs Committee could put a bit of pressure on the Government and take a call to say that he agrees with me because the success of Māori Television could be augmented by it having another channel. But we do not know how that is going to happen because it is no longer in charge of the frequencies that it is going to be going out on. That now goes to—no not Māori Television—Te Pūtahi Pāoho. So it cannot manage any further growth without having to go through this other organisation which may say: “We don’t care about you having another channel. We’re going to lease out the rest of the spectrum just to make money.” Here is a question and it is a serious question: if there is money to be made out of the spectrum what is it going to be used for? I would prefer that it goes back into the culture but that question has not been answered.Hon SHANE JONES (Labour): Tēnā koe Mr Chairman. In the characteristic spirit of positive contributions that defines me I want to direct our attention to the question of whether or not Māori Television with the change in the Māori language Te Reo me ōna tikanga [the language and its customs] is a Trojan horse where the station will no longer be a bastion of quality language and a prestigious place to go to help people improve their language.I know that report from Te Kāhui o Māhutonga which I thought was not unlike the report from Te Paepae Motuhake to do with Te Reo Māori had content inversely related to cost and had quality inversely related to quantity. They were by and large reports that did not advance the Māori language in any practical way. I would love to hear Dr Sharples our Minister of Māori Affairs stand and provide some account of that.But there is a point at which the underlying raison d’être the underlying kaupapa purpose of the station needs to be tied to something that is a legacy. Is this an opportunity for it to broaden and provide more shows such as those narrated by Sir Howard Morrison’s son? I have got nothing in particular against that whānau or Matua Parkinson other than his lapse of smoking dope but then half of Kaitāia does it. I do not judge him for that either. However I would say that if we are going to maintain a special position of power and influence for our Māori Television station in so far as it can be a public television provider let it not be at the cost of good-quality language. Let it not be at the cost of being a bastion for those people as the language stops being used in the way that it perhaps was in our grandmothers’ time and indeed in my colleague Tau Henare’s grandparents’ time. New avenues are required but it is important that new students can find it in an accessible way not by reading some ancient dictionary.I think Richard Tregear wrote a Māori language dictionary. That is quite apart from that famous Anglican who ended up with too much Ngati Porou land Williams. That might have more to do with Ngati Porou than Williams and the Anglican Church. That is another matter—that is another matter. But I would say that we must not compromise on te pūkenga te mārū wehi me te ātaahua o Te Reo Māori tōna ātaahua [the skilfulness awesome gentleness and beauty of the Māori language its attractiveness].If they are going to make programmes that are broader than Te Reo Māori then it is important that it is done in such a way that it actually improves the consciousness. I am tempted to talk about the Minister’s year-long slumber but that would be unbecoming. But the consciousness of broader New Zealand society is such that the language becomes regarded as something that does not deserve to be sneered at and eventually turns into a part of compulsory study in all New Zealand schools just as we have to learn geography and social studies. I would like to think that every kid learns civics compulsorily. If it is not happening then help is on the way. It certainly will be in a year or two. As a part of a robust social studies programme New Zealand’s first language our native language Te Reo Māori should be embedded there. But for that to happen society obviously has to lose a lot of its not so much fear but its sense that the language is worthless.I fear that those critics looking at the Minister might collude and say that the language is worthless. The language is not worthless. There may be some problems with the worth of the Minister but the language is not worthless. I do not think it is fair that we have sat through this debate and we have not really heard a great deal—and that is fine there are a host of other Ministers. Indeed there were some on our side who did not feel obliged from time to time to contribute. But let us not compromise the language. Let us ensure that it provides a basis for improving our sense of ownership our sense of place in terms of the language being an indelible feature of broad New Zealand civic culture without Māori feeling that they are being alienated from their language.The other thing that I would like to remind us of is that we had a great debate and it is there in the bill in terms of management rights. There is an issue as to whether or not Te Pūtahi Pāoho may be captured and decide that Māori Television is not deserving of the entirety of the spectrum and that other pursuits—there may be the occasional erratic film maker who may come up with a bright scheme from out of the Māori film-making ether—might want to get some of that spectrum for a different television purpose.I would counsel and warn against that. I think it is important. Just as under the current Minister where we have watched Māori radio wither on the vine there is no longer any funding for training. These are people who can criss-cross from te irirangi Māori to te pouaka Māori. They can criss-cross from Māori radio to Māori television and create a bigger cadre of bilingual sophisticated broadcasters and reporters. I think it is really disappointing that when there is some scope that this waka kīhau this ghost ship will provide the chance for viral activity people think that by atomising Māori effort somehow the kaupapa is going to get stronger. I find very little evidence that that is the case. In relation to te irirangi Māori—Māori radio—we have seen that the reason that it has withered is that often it lacks collective effort. You have too many organisations pulling in too many different directions.The Minister might say that there is a safeguard there and that any major changes to spectrum allocation or spectrum use have to have the acquiescence or the statutory consent of the relevant Ministers. In order for those mortgages to be entered into or for other purposes the Minister has to buy into it. That is a safeguard but a number of Māori will see that as patronising. A number of Māori will see that as diametrically opposed to the tino rangatiratanga rhetoric that defined the Māori Party when it was at its best. Unfortunately much drooping has taken place since that point in time.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: It’s withered—withered.Hon SHANE JONES: Yes. The voters will have the final say on that matter.But when we actually focus in respect of the usage of the spectrum let us ensure—and the Minister perhaps might provide us with some reassurance—that Te Pūtahi Pāoho will not be a nest of instability that then weakens the ability of the major Māorilanguage television provider. There is some mahi happening in Television One but I think most Māori in terms of language activists and those of us wanting to promote a greater level of knowledge and consciousness about our heritage in Māori look to Māori Television.Let us not create a situation where that waka is weakened because of conflicting agendas. I suspect that is what has blighted the attempt to date of Māori Television to find a person to be the new chief executive officer. There are too many agendas and too many people fighting each other. Of course we have seen this with Hone Harawira having left the Māori Party and Tariana Turia not sure whether she is going to stay or go. Unfortunately this is a feature of certain aspects of that type of political creed. That is their business and our business today as parliamentarians is to ensure that this bill does not provide an opportunity for people with so many conflicting agendas to weaken the resolve of the board. It has actually started to happen. They cannot even find a chief executive officer which is actually an indictment on the chair of the board Georgina te Heuheu. That did not seem to make any difference when she was a Minister and it is unlikely to make any impact on her now. She is not a Minister.When Māori Television does make programmes that have broader appeal it should make a programme about creatures that hibernate. Occasionally they are prodded out of their slumber into a level of consciousness.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Who would star in that?Hon SHANE JONES: I can think of someone who will be unemployed at the end of next year and out of politics who may actually star in that programme. Indeed Georgina te Heuheu could actually star in that at the moment given the failure to find a chief executive officer and the inability to bring what seems to be conflict to a head. So this is not good for Māori Television. We stand with Māori Television in the sense—RINO TIRIKATENE (Labour—Te Tai Tonga): Kia ora Mr Chair. I would like my contribution at this Committee stage to really just focus on quite a narrow issue. That matter relates to the actual composition of Te Pūtahi Pāoho. The organisations that make up Te Pūtahi Pāoho are listed in schedule 1 of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Act. To be removed from schedule 1 of the Act requires an Order in Council. That Order in Council requires a recommendation from the Minister. The Minister’s recommendation comes through as to whether they are taking up the decision of Te Pūtahi Pāoho to that effect. So basically Te Pūtahi Pāoho makes a decision it goes through to the Minister as to whether he will take on that recommendation then it gets enshrined by Order in Council and then the Act is amended.We have got 11 organisations in schedule 1 of the Act as I understand it today. I will not rattle through all of them. There are some longstanding Māori organisations that have done much work in terms of championing the Reo when doing other great things.Hon Shane Jones: Kōhanga reo?RINO TIRIKATENE: Te Kōhanga Reo National Trust is in there.Hon Shane Jones: Special Minister in kōhanga reo. Kei te moe.RINO TIRIKATENE: Āe. We have got the Māori Council—Hon Tau Henare: Who?RINO TIRIKATENE: The New Zealand Māori Council. There are the kura kaupapa. There is a whole host of organisations there that comprise Te Pūtahi Paoho. That means that those organisations are entitled to appoint a member to Te Pūtahi Paoho. So what I am really seeking from the Minister of Māori Affairs is absolute certainty as to the composition of Te Pūtahi Pāoho.The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): Sorry to interrupt the honourable member. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break.Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.RINO TIRIKATENE: As I was saying before the dinner break I am seeking clarification from the Minister of Māori Affairs as to the composition of Te Pūtahi Pāoho. It is the statutory body that is now going to have the management and administration rights for the spectrum under this bill and it is very important because of as you know the issues raised at the Māori Affairs Committee regarding certain members of that Te Pūtahi Pāoho body specifically because we as a select committee were written to by the Minister when we raised these matters. We received a letter from Minister Sharples which was received here on 20 August stating that Te Pūtahi Pāoho was going to have a meeting on 28 or 29 August to consider the membership status of certain organisations specifically the National Māori Congress and Kawea Te Rongo. I know the Minister mentioned in his opening speech that those two organisations have withdrawn from Te Pūtahi Pāoho.I am just seeking clarification from the Minister whether recommendations and an Order in Council have actually gone through to that effect. As I understand it—and I may wrong but it seems clear—under section 14 of the Act it requires an Order in Council on the recommendation of the Minister at the advice or request of the chair of Te Pūtahi Pāoho. Only then can there be the addition or removal of names from Te Pūtahi Pāoho.The reason why I am seeking clarification is I think it is very important that given all the issues that we have raised around whether certain bodies are defunct or whether they are operative and whether certain members who are representing those bodies have been validly appointed we get a record really of the decisions that have been made by Te Pūtahi Pāoho—a record of the paper trail I guess—and a record of that going all the way through to the Order in Council. I think ultimately that we need the Order in Council because despite what the Minister may say the fact that those certain bodies like the National Māori Congress and Kawea Te Rongo have withdrawn and until those measures have been put in place and given effect to technically they would still be part of schedule 1 of the Act.What has added to my confusion is that when I looked at the Te Pūtahi Pāoho website and looked at the page where it lists all the members of Te Pūtahi Pāoho it is woefully out of date. It is either that or I may be mistaken as to who certain members are or who certain organisations are on Te Pūtahi Pāoho. For instance it still lists Tūwhakairiora Williams as the chairperson. It still lists Kawea Te Rongo as a member and a member representing Kawea Te Rongo. This is the actual website itself of Te Pūtahi Pāoho which again is misleading because as I understand it there is a press release that came out from Te Pūtahi Pāoho announcing the appointment of Willie Jackson as the new chair and the appointment of two co-deputy chairs.All of that goes to show that if the actual administration of Te Pūtahi Pāoho is not displaying the correct composition or membership of the board it does not give us much confidence. It does not give us much confidence that the Minister knows what he is doing the ministry knows what it is doing and Te Pūtahi Pāoho knows what it is doing in terms of who the members are who the organisations are who the members are who represent those organisations on Te Pūtahi Pāoho and indeed how valid the decisions are that it is making as a decision-making body.It is an important body because it is going to be managing significant management rights of the spectrum and it is a Treaty partner to the Crown in terms of Māori broadcasting. I think it is incumbent on us to ask the Minister to provide us with theOrders in Council to give us proof as to which organisations are definitively in Te Pūtahi Pāoho and who the members of those organisations are in Te Pūtahi Pāoho. Until we get that comfort I guess it could be not validly constituted because we have to make sure that the legal mechanisms have been put in place to make sure that Te Pūtahi Pāoho is a valid organisation.Hon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of Māori Affairs): Kua puta māku e whakahoki kōrero ki a rātou kua kōrero mai ki a mātou ki ahau i tēnei rā. Tuatahi kei te mihi au ki te Komiti Whiriwhiri Take Māori. Kua oti pai ā rātou mahi ā tēnā koutou. I rongo au i ngā kōrero ā mo ngā mahi kua oti i a koutou i ā koutou hui. Kua whāia e au tēnā me taku tari tēnā ake koutou.[It is for me to respond to those who addressed us and me today. First I acknowledge the Māori Affairs Committee. You have completed your work effectively so thank you collectively. I heard the comments in respect of what you as a collective completed at your hearings. I and my office have addressed that. Thank you indeed.]I was just acknowledging the Māori Affairs Committee for the work that it is doing. To everybody in the House who has raised issues they are all good questions about process and representation and so on and I am very happy to respond to those.Te Pūtahi Pāoho is a group that has been given the management rights of the spectrum. It is essentially an electoral college which involves those pioneers working in Te Reo Māori to contribute to a whole moving forward of Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori. It keeps the kaitiakitanga separate from the operations of a commercial enterprise. This is a common thing for Māori. The electoral college for fisheries represents the tribes in that case. They appoint people on to the board and that is how it goes. Similarly this electoral college involves members from the following organisations: Te Whakaruruhau o Ngā Reo Irirangi Māori Te Tau Ihu o Ngā Wānanga Ngā Aho Whakaari Te Rūnanganui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori o Aotearoa Te Rūnanga o Te Ataarangi kōhanga reo Māori Women’s Welfare League Ngā Kaiwhakapūmau i Te Reo Māori and Te Kaunihera Māori o Aotearoa. Those are the organisations that have somebody in that electoral college. The two that stepped down as a result of inquiries—from both within the Māori Affairs Committee and outside—were the National Māori Congress delegate and also Kawea Te Rongo. In addition to that Ngā Kaiwhakapūmau i Te Reo Māori got itself reregistered as an incorporated society—it was incorporated but it let it lapse and now it has reregistered itself—to be in accord with the new Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill that has come out now. That is why Te Pūtahi Pāoho exists and that is how the members on that group are selected.Te Pūtahi Pāoho cannot provide the use of the spectrum to any third party without the consent of the Ministers involved—there are two of us the Minister for Māori Affairs and the Minister of Finance—and without the consent of Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori. So Te Pūtahi Pāoho has to actually get the Māori Television Service to agree with anything it does with this. It provides to Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori certainty of tenure for its operation. In fact Te Pūtahi Pāoho has the same rules and parameters of management of the spectrum as for all other spectrum provided by the Government.On the other question that was asked about the quality of Te Reo I need to tell you that there is one particular clause in this bill that is directed at the growth of Māori programmes for native speakers—ngā mea tino matatau ki Te Reo Māori ngā mea i tipu ake i roto i Te Reo. It is for those speakers so we can have that lot progressing and enjoying and contributing as well as those who are just arriving at Te Reo Māori i tēnei wā. That is definitely an aim in this new bill.On the question of ōna tikanga—ngā tikanga Māori—and I have got to remind you that these are iwi leaders and native speakers and people working in the Reo who are half of the people on the board of Māori Television Whakaata Māori. It was felt that ōna tikanga shows that Te Reo is in fact part of a culture and a way of life as opposed to existing side by side with some customs. That is basically how we have always referred to Te Reo me ōna tikanga [the language and its customs] to show that it is an essential leadership role but it is also part of the whole culture. So some of the comments that were made earlier actually can be explained by what I have just said now about the place of Te Reo Māori and ōna tikanga kei roto i Te Ao Māori [its customs in Māoridom].So it is all a whole.As to the question of the selection of the chief executive officer—when people brought areas that they were worried about to my notice I immediately contacted the chairperson and the deputy chair and they went to see whether due diligence and proper process was being applied to the selection. They gave me their assurance so I am waiting for a report when they have made their examination of the whole process and every event in it. Because I am the Minister I have to stay at arm’s length from that process but as soon as the report is made I can do something about it and have a look at it and I intend to do so.Those are some of the answers to some of the questions that you asked. But I ask you please to understand that Whakaata Māori is part of the Māori world and in the Māori world we sort of own everything. We are sort of kaitiaki katoa mātou o ngā taonga Māori katoa [we are all guardians of all of Māori culture].So it is hard for people to be excluded from anything and that is perhaps why we have these electoral colleges operating—to allow more viewpoints to come in on the running of the thing. That is all I have to say at this time just to answer some of those points that you have raised.SCOTT SIMPSON (National—Coromandel): I moveThat the question be now put.The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy): Clare Curran.CLARE CURRAN (Labour—Dunedin South): Such a quiet voice Mr Chair. First of all I would like to say thank you very much to the Minister of Māori Affairs for getting up and taking a call and clarifying his position on some of these issues that have been raised this evening in the debate on this bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. I take in good faith what the Minister has said on all of the issues that he has spoken about and I appreciate and acknowledge what he had to say. I think that given the number of issues that have been raised the importance of some of these issues and the context in which they have been raised that is something that this Committee and this side of the Chamber must acknowledge.Obviously we on the Labour bench still have concerns and I will go straight to the appointment process for the chief executive and the request for a report which I think is a sensible thing to do. But the problem remains that the report that will be received will be after the fact and going back in time going back in history to the early part of Māori Television’s history when there were appointments made and regrets made around those appointments as they did not turn out the way they could and should have. Those lessons should not be repeated and in any process that is undertaken I would hope—and I know that the Minister is certainly listening tonight—that it would not be a situation that what we would end up with had to be fixed up afterwards rather than be dealt with beforehand. I think that has been at the essence of the concern from the Labour side right from the very beginning.As my colleague Kris Faafoi said in his second reading speech the Opposition’s role in asking the questions and raising the issues is a vital role in our democracy. Most times it is an essential role and it can be raising issues that can be dealt with before they become bigger issues. I certainly think that the Minister is listening to that and we are certainly very interested in the information that is supplied during the report.With regard to the comments the Minister has made around the electoral college and its role at the governance level I certainly think that all of my colleagues who have spoken in the debate tonight have acknowledged the importance of that role and also the history of that role. The problems are—I hesitate to say “operational”—around the composition the fact that that governance body ended up being questioned in terms of its ability to govern and what the status was of all of the individual bodies that made it up. It was so serious—and the Minister would certainly know this—that it was mentioned and a great deal of attention was given to it during the discussion on the bill in the Māori Affairs Committee and it was also in the committee’s report back to the House. That seemed to me to be quite an unusual situation. A live issue that had not been dealt with was drawn to Parliament’s attention as something that still had yet to be dealt with in order for this bill to turn into legislation that was workable.I also would like to mention—and this is something that has not been mentioned in the debate today—that one of the core amendments to this legislation was to try to find a way through if there was going to be debate around the management of the spectrum. This was certainly supported by the Labour members and I say thank you to the officials for inserting it. It amends clause 10 of the bill to insert a new section 24DA into the Act allowing the appointment of a mediator if the responsible Ministers and Te Pūtahi Pāoho could not resolve any disagreement about the administration of spectrum management rights that would require their joint determination. What that means is that there is an acknowledgment that there could be disagreements and that there could be the need for some resolution of them. How that mediation would work I think is still up in the air. I think it is of concern that it would even have to be anticipated but I certainly think that it was a sensible amendment to the bill because it provides a way forward if there is the need.What it presupposed was that the management of the spectrum—and this is the essence of Labour’s argument tonight—is a concern and there is still a question mark around what its future use will be. Given that we are moving into the digital environment given that there will be more spectrum available and given that not all of that spectrum is allocated to Māori Television the big question remains as to what its future use is going to be and what the Government’s position on that is. What is the Crown’s position?This is Parliament. This is where we get to discuss these things. If the Minister is not able to take another call or is not of a mind to take another call in the Committee stage I certainly hope that in his third reading speech he will go to that point and tell the House where the Government’s thinking is and where the Crown’s thinking is on that matter. In terms of the Māori Television Service’s future and the next 10 years of its existence I think this Committee needs to be assured that in the Government’s mind it is a future that is about expansion and the golden age as has been referred to by another member in this Chamber. I think this Committee needs to be assured that there will be a golden age for Māori Television and that that is very much at the forefront of the Government’s mind.KRIS FAAFOI (Labour—Mana): Can I also join my colleague Clare Curran in thanking the Minister in the chair the Minister of Māori Affairs for taking some time to answer some of the questions that we have asked through the Committee stage. I think he has done a very honourable job of that and gone a long way to answering some of thequestions particularly around the management of the spectrum and he touched briefly on the appointment process for the chief executive.If he is able to could he enlighten us more around the spectrum management and the fact that the management of the part of the spectrum that was held by the Māori Television Service is now being handed over to Te Pūtahi Pāoho. He did mention to us that if there was going to be any change in the way that the spectrum was used it would have to go through him and also the Minister of Finance. I think I heard him say that the service which I am led to believe is the Māori Television Service would also have to approve that. That does not necessarily mean that there will not be revenue gathered or that the spectrum that is within that packet of spectrum will not be used for another purpose and in fact it gave us a process as to how that can be used. So my question to the Minister in the chair is what will be some of the parameters as to how the spectrum can be utilised? If it is leased out where does the revenue from that lease agreement go to? Will it stay within the realms of Te Pūtahi Pāoho? Will it be passed back to the Government as pure revenue? Will it be used elsewhere with Te Reo to promote the use of Te Reo?I think there might be an argument that because that spectrum was given to the Māori Television Service originally any extra revenue that might come from the future utilisation of it might be reinvested back into the Māori Television Service. Obviously this argument is very prudent and timely at the moment because of the budget freeze that the Māori Television Service is under. With advancing technology moving forward and becoming more costly those costs will increase over time for the Māori Television Service so that it is able to meet the demands and needs of the changing technology. I guess if we can get from the Minister in the chair some more specifics about how the revenue that might come about from the utilisation of that spectrum will be used and how it might be used—will it be poured back into the Māori Television Service or will it go to some other avenue that could perhaps promote Te Reo or the Māori culture? Or as I mentioned earlier could it go straight back to the Crown as money to go back into the consolidated fund? That is just one particular aspect in terms of the questions that the Minster answered. If he can give us some more clarification that would be useful.Just to conclude—also the process around the investigation into the appointment process of the chief executive. I wonder whether—and I am not sure what the terms of reference might be—the investigation might be able to look further than just at those involved in the process and those who might have wanted to include themselves in the process. I mention that because I understand that someone from Television New Zealand may have approached either a board member or someone at the Māori Television Service during the appointment process with what I understand to be concerns about one particular candidate. I think that that needs to be addressed. If we have someone at the State broadcaster with concerns about someone who is applying for a job—the chief executive role at the Māori Television Service—and those concerns are not being able to be passed through that is a major concern when we look at the interests of public broadcasting in a wider sense. If there is concern at the major broadcaster about the suitability of someone for a position then you have got to wonder why that is not being passed on to those making the decision about the chief executive role at the Māori Television Service now—that is a very very important decision for what someone called a treasure to Te Reo and to Māori culture established by the previous Labour Government. Also we need to make sure that there is independence and a solid decision being made about an entity that receives $36 million in taxpayer funding each year.I am going to stop there and potentially maybe get some answers from the Minister in the chair.Hon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of Māori Affairs): Kia ora. The mediator idea is not really necessary because Te Pūtahi Pāoho does not have anything to do with the actual management of the Whakaata Māori spectrum. That is totally Whakaata Māori’s province. Te Pūtahi Pāoho is a group that represents Te Ao Māori who are kaitiaki of that taonga. They are there because they represent groups who are fighting for the survival of tō tātau Reo.If we go back to 1960 the reo was in a very poor state and it began with Ngā Tamatoa and Kaiwhakapūmau i Te Reo and we grew. In 1980 you would have been hard put to find any MPs in this House who could name more than four tribes because the Government did not trade with Māori at all. So we have come a long way and there will be mistakes made along the way. Just to answer your question a mediator for Te Pūtahi Pāoho would be unnecessary really because that does not involve its role.As for the future use of the spectrum I think one of the most important things there is Whakapiki i Te Reo so that we can make sure there is growth in Aotearoa and so that we can provide programmes on Māori Television that complement the work done outside by Panekiretanga kura kaupapa wānanga and those others right down to kōhanga. If you go into Māori homes that are involved in one of these Te Reo Māori programmes you will find all the family and the little children are watching Māori programmes in the main until the teenager wants to switch to TV2. So that is the most important thing.The second thing is the quality of Te Reo Māori to actually provide programmes that lift the bar in terms of Te Reo Māori and expose different tribal authorities or experts in Te Reo Māori speaking and debating on the marae but also discussing topics like Halley’s Comet and how often it comes combustion engines or whatever is topical. That requires a degree of excellence in Te Reo Māori to be able to carry that.The other thing is to have relevant programmes for Māori to grow as a people in this country but also to embrace New Zealand as a single culture. It is a fact that they did remove from the first draft the idea that it is there for all parts of—I have forgotten the actual wording. But they have taken away the clause to cover the needs of all New Zealanders because it has a particular function. You cannot do everything so it is focusing on Te Reo Māori and through that out to the rest of New Zealand.So more Reo content more quality Reo content are our desires for that. Also there is the international involvement. Whakaata Māori has led the world of indigenous people to create a network of indigenous television and it is really exciting that we are able to share programmes of other indigenous peoples’ journeys and note the parallels and so on. So that is some of the stuff that I can give off the cuff about the plans for Whakaata Māori.There is no change in the spectrum use of Whakaata Māori allocation. So it is in fact still the same allocation to pursue those goals. It is not going to change halfway through as some thought might happen. That is not going to happen because of if you like the direction that they have written down to take.I think it is important to note the support that Whakaata Māori provides to other Māori initiatives that consummate if you like the fact that there is a Māori culture in this country—like during the Rugby World Cup. Māori Television was getting some of the games to broadcast but even more important it was showcasing Māori rugby in the waka Māori down at the waterfront and there are other activities that it does in the public arena like as you have mentioned Anzac Day tangihanga of leaders and things like that. People get an insight into that. The reaction is very very positive and it should be because it is real and it is New Zealand. It is for all New Zealand. So that is all I have to say at this stage.Parts 1 and 2 and clause 1 agreed to.The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 391 in the name of the Hon Dr Pita Sharples to clause 2 be agreed to.Amendment agreed to.Clause 2 as amended agreed to.Clause 3 agreed to.Bill reported with amendment.Report adopted.Third ReadingHon Dr PITA SHARPLES (Minister of Māori Affairs): I moveThat the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill be now read a third time. Kai te korero au i Te Reo Māori. Hai Te Māngai hai Te Whare tēnei ka mihi mō ngā ekenga o tēnei pire ki tāna pānuitanga tuatorutanga. Ka riro māna e whakanikoniko i te waka nei o Whakaata Māori i roto i ngā tirohanga ō nātatanei. E kite ana kai te pai te hanga o te waka kai te pakari ngā kaihoe o te waka kai te ārahi ngā kaiurungi i te waka ki tōna pae tawhiti arā ko te oranga o Te Reo Māori tērā. Tā tēnei pire he whakanikoniko i te waka.Ehara i te mea he waka hōu tēnei i roa te tārai ā kua tekau tau e hoe ana. Ka nui aku mihi ki ngā kaitārai me ngā kaihoe. Ko ētahi ō rātau kua riro ki te wāhi ngaro pēnā i a Parekura. Ko tā tātau maioha ki a rātau mā he hāpai i ngā hoe o te waka nei. I ētahi wā he moana pukepuke ka hoe i ētahi anō wā he moana marino. E tātau mā ko taku kupu ki a tātau i tēnei wā ki te hoe tēnā tātau.Hai Te Māngai nō mua rā anō a Ngāi Māori i aronui ki ngā hangarau pāoho. Nō muri noa mai i te hainatanga o te Tiriti o Waitangi i tāia ko te niupepa Reo Māori tuatahi. I kaha hāpai a Ngāi Māori i tēnei kaupapa ā he nui atu i te whā tekau ngā niupepa Reo Māori i waenga i te tau 1842 me te tau 1930. I te taenga mai o te hangarau hōu ka hāpaitia e ō mātau tīpuna me te tau mai o ētahi kupu hoki ki Te Reo Māori pēnei i te “waea” me te “terewhonu”. Ā i ngā tau toru tekau ka riro mā Tā Āpirana Ngata te waea ki tawhiti tuatahi mō Aotearoa nei nā Aotearoa ki Ahitereiria ā ko ana kupu tuatahi hoki he kōrero Māori. Taro ake ki te wā nei o te pouaka whakaata me maumahara me whai whakaaro ki ngā pakanga ka kitea he hōtaka Māori pēnei i aKoha i aTe Karere i aWaka Huia. Kai te ora tonu ēnei kaumātua o Te Ao Māori. Ka puāwai ngā mahi pāoho Māori i ngā tau a waru tekau e rātau nā te aranga mai o ngā teihana irirangi Māori.He hītori tēnei ki a tātau e pā ana ki te hangarau mō tō tātau Reo Maōri. Kāre e kore kai te maumahara ētahi mema o te Whare nei ki ngā kēhi me te pāoho Māori ki mua o Te Rōpū Whakamana i te Tiriti o Waitangi me ngā Kooti. Ka whai hua ngā mahi nei i te Haratua o 2003 i te whakaturetanga o te ture mō Whakaata Māori. Nā haere tonu haere tonu ngā mahi ka puāwai. Ko ngā mahi hai whakapiki i Te Reo Māori me ōna tikanga ki te iwi Māori me te motu whānui mō tātau.Kāre te pire nei e tino whakarerekē i ngā ritenga mō Whakaata Māori ka whakanikoniko kē i te ture matua arā ko Te Ture mō Whakaata Māori. Ka riro mā te pire e whakakaha te aro o Whakaata Māori ki āna mahi hei whakapiki i Te Reo Māori. Kua whakatakotoria he tikanga hōu mō te whakahaere i te ara tūātea kia tukuna mō ngā mahi pāoho Māori. Ka riro mā te taha Māori mā Te Pūtahi Pāoho e pupuri te ara tūātea ā māna e tuku raihana ki a Whakaata Māori mō āna hōtaka o nāianei o anamata anō hoki. Ka whakaritea mai he tikanga arotake i tēnei ture ā muri ake nei ā kawhakamana i ētahi paku rerekētanga ki roto i ngā whakahaere a Te Pūtahi Pāoho me Whakaata Māori.Ko tētahi tikanga nui i ngā āmenamana nei he whakarite i a Whakaata Māori mō te huri ki te tikanga pāoho mamati arā digital. Ka oti ngā mahi a te huri mamati hai te kotahi o Hakihea 2013. Koia nei tātau ngā take me pāhi i tēnei pire i tēnei tau tonu nei. Koinā au e mihi atu ki a koutou mō ngā tautoko i tēnei wā. I te tīmatatanga tētahi arotake i te Ture mō Whakaata i te tau 2008 nā runga i te whakahau a section 56 o taua ture. Nā ngā Minita o taua wā a Tā Michael Cullen rāua ko Parekura Horomia me te heamana o Te Pūtahi Pāoho a Tūwhakairiora Williams i whakatū tētahi kāhui arotake ki te tirotiro i te ture. Heoi anō e hoa e te marae o Ngāhiwi Parekura kai te tangi tonu kai te mihi tonu mō ēnei mahi nāhau i mahi nāhau i kōkiri i roto i ngā tau. Ko te kāhui arotake nei ko Tainui Stephens ko Jane Hūria rātau ko Hone Edwards. Ka oti tā rātau pūrongo i te tau 2009 ka whakatakotoria ki tēnei whare. Nō muri mai ka whakatau te kāwanatanga ki te whakanikoniko i te ture mō Whakaata Māori ā ka tau mai tēnei pire ki te Whare i te Here-turi-kōkā te tau 2012 ā he ota kaunihera. Nāu tēnei pātai mō te Order in Council.Ka oti kē taku whakamōhio i te Whare nei mō ngā whakarerekētanga ki te hunga e whai wāhi ana i Te Pūtahi Pāoho. Kua rihaina te National Māori Congress me Kawea Te Rongo i Te Pūtahi Pāoho nā runga i ngā tikanga o section 14 o te ture mō Whakaata Māori. Kei te kōkiri au i tētahi Ota Kaunihera (Order-in-Council) ki te whakaoti i ngā rīhainatanga nei. Kei te haere pai tēnei kaupapa kei te Governor-General i tēnei wā māna e tautoko ana. Mēnā tautoko ana anā kua oti. Nā reira me mihi anō ki te komiti mō te take Māori ka tika. Hai Te Māngai ka riro mā tēnei pire a Whakaata Māori e whakarite mō te huringa mamati. Ko te wāhanga hōu tēnei o ngā kōrero mō te whai wāhi a Ngāi Māori ki ngā hangarau pāoho mai i ngā niupepa Reo Māori a ngā tīpuna. Kua tae mai nei te ao e pāohotia mamatitia Te Reo Māori.[I will be speaking in Māori. I acknowledge this bill’s achievements in making it to its third reading. The third reading will embellish this vessel the Māori Television Service in respect of recent findings. It should be noted that it is in good shape and that those who manage it the paddlers are sturdy and leading the navigators to its long-term goal that being the well-being of the Māori language. The embellishment of the vessel is the function of this bill.The vessel is not a new one. Fashioning it has taken a while and the paddling has gone on for 10 years. I commend the fashioners and paddlers some of whom have passed on to the place out of sight the world of the gods and spirits such as the Hon Parekura Horomia. Our tribute to them is to raise the paddles of this vessel aloft. At times the sea has been mountainous but the rowing continued. At times it has been calm. Fellow colleagues my word to you at this point in time is to keep rowing.Greetings to us. Māoridom have had an inclination towards broadcasting technology for a very long time. Following the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi the first newspaper in Māori was published. Māoridom really picked this up and between 1842 and 1930 there were more than 40 newspapers in Māori. When the new technology arrived our ancestors elevated it with the arrival also of words like “waea” and “terewhonu” into the Māori language. In the 1930s it was left to Sir Apirana Ngata to make the first long-distance call from this country by New Zealand to Australia. His first words were in Māori. Eventually we arrive at this moment of television to recall and ponder over the conflicts witnessed before Māori programmes likeKohaTe Karere andWaka Huia were found. These elders of Māoridom who were involved are still alive today. As a consequence of them Māori broadcasting functions came to fruition in the 1980s because of the rise of Māori radio stations.In terms of technology and our Māori language this is historical for us. Without a doubt some members of this House are recalling the cases on Māori broadcasting that went before the Waitangi Tribunal and the courts. The Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Act in May 2003 was the outcome of the cases before those courts. And so the work continued and blossomed. The work related to promoting the Māori language and its customs to the Māori people and to the nation at large on our behalf.The bill does not alter the provisions for Māori Television significantly but rather it enhances the principal Act of 2003 instead. The bill will strengthen the focus of Māori Television on its work to promote the Māori language. A new procedure about the management of the spectrum is being proposed for activities relating to Māori broadcasting. The Māori component Te Pūtahi Paoho will hold the spectrum and issue licences to Māori Television for its current programmes and for those thereafter. It will consider a subsequent review protocol in this legislation and it will effect some minor administrative changes for Te Pūtahi Paoho and Māori Television.A significant change in these amendments is the consideration that Māori Television will change the method of broadcasting to digital. The transfer to digital will be completed on 1 December 2013. These are matters that must be passed right now in this bill in this year. This is why I am complimenting you for your support at this point in time.At the beginning was a review of the Broadcasting Act of 2008 pursuant to section 56 of that Act. Ministers at that time Sir Michael Cullen and Parekura Horomia with the chairman of Te Pūtahi Paoho Tūwhakairiora Williams established a review panel to examine the Act. And so dear friend Parekura we continue to mourn your passing and to acknowledge these tasks you dealt with over the years. The review panel consisted of Tainui Stephens Jane Hūria and Hone Edwards. Their report was completed in 2009 and was presented to Parliament. Afterwards the Government decided to enhance the Act for Māori Television and this bill came before the House in August 2012 as an Order in Council. You sought for this Order in Council.I have already informed this House about the changes to those that have an interest in Te Pūtahi Paoho. The National Māori Congress and Kawea Te Rongo have resigned from Te Pūtahi Pāoho under section 14 of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Act. I am dealing with an Order in Council to complete these resignations. This matter is progressing well and it is with the Governor-General currently awaiting his approval. If he approves it then it is done. So it is fitting indeed that I acknowledge the Māori Affairs Committee. This bill will enable the Māori Television Service to make the digital switch-over happen. This is the new part of this conversation about Māoridom’s participation in the technologies of broadcasting from the newspapers in Māori of the ancestral forefathers. This world of broadcasting the Māori language digitally has arrived.]We have come from a newspaper in Te Reo Māori to now digitisation of Te Reo Māori. Kai te hīkaka katoa ahau. I am really really over the moon about this. Ki ngā āhuatanga o te ao hangarau nei. Māori mā kia kaha tā tātau ruku atu ki te hangarau pāoho e hua mai e hua mai. Nō reira huri noa i tēnei Whare whakapiringa tangata ka mihi kau atu ki ngā mana nō tuawhakarere ā ki a tātau i konei i tēnei rā. Nā reira huri noa tēnā koutou tēnā tātau tēnā tātau katoa ā kei Te Māngai kei raro.[To the nuances of this world of technology Māori we must be strong and dive into technology broadcasting. Results will come to bear—results will come to bear. Therefore I salute the pioneers from the past and us here today throughout the House of the people. And so greetings to you to us and to everyone throughout. I resume my seat.]CLARE CURRAN (Labour—Dunedin South): Thank you to the Minister of Māori Affairs for his speech. Thank you to the Minister for his engagement during the debate on this bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. Tonight it feels as if there has truly been a debate with some meaning in this House on a piece of legislation that actually we are in agreement on because Labour supports this bill. As I think everyone will have noticed we have reservations. But actually having a real debate where the questions are asked and there is an attempt to engage and to answer them is what this Parliament should be doing on every single piece of legislation where there are questions and where there is genuine debate and genuine engagement from the other side of the House. So I would like to make that point because I think it is an important point and I do hope that there are members listening and taking note of that.There is too much debate too much superficial debate in this Parliament on important pieces of legislation where the other side of the House refuses to engage because it wants to push a piece of legislation through. So all credit to the Minister of Māori Affairs who has genuinely attempted to answer some of the questions that have been raised. Even if those answers are not necessarily as fulsome as we would like they have been genuine attempts and we acknowledge that.I do want to again make mention of the importance of Māori Television to our country and as a great example of what can be done in the area of public broadcasting. Māori Television has become as has been noted by a number of people tonight the default public television broadcaster in New Zealand. However it does not have the mandate to be a full public television broadcaster. It does not have the funding to be a full public television broadcaster. Because of the absence—because there is a gap—of public television in this country it has ably attempted to fulfil that although its primary mandate is around the promotion of Te Reo and the importance of Te Reo in New Zealand and we absolutely applaud that and support it. Again tonight I want to acknowledge the work done by Parekura Horomia in helping to set up Māori Television and his vision lives on and hopefully will live on for many decades to come through this broadcaster. On that going to the appointment process—the important appointment process—of a new chief executive which has taken up much time in the debate tonight we on this side of the House are watching very closely.I think that there is a will in New Zealand for Māori Television to lead the way and to do that it must be above all question and must not have any shadows hanging over it in terms of how it is being run and the governance structures and the way that those decisions are being made. I certainly think those points have been made well tonight and I certainly think that the Minister has been listening.I also want to acknowledge the work done in the Māori Affairs Committee by all members of the select committee and in particular by my colleagues Shane Jones; Parekura before he passed away; Nanaia Mahuta; and Rino Tirikatene. They were all members on that committee and they have all contributed today in the House on this issue. Also I note a number of the issues were raised and my colleague Kris Faafoi has been very vigorously debating the issues around the spectrum its management and how it is going to be used. Those issues that were raised in the select committee must also remain on the record and that is the composition and the governance of the electoral college Te Pūtahi Paoho and how that is working out. I think that certainly tonight there has been constructive discussion around that.It feels as if there is constructive movement towards resolving some of those issues but I certainly want to make sure that the House knows how that plays out. How those management and governance arrangements play out will certainly be being watched very closely in the future in respect of not only the general management of MāoriTelevision but also the management of that spectrum because our concern is that there are other plans or there may be other plans. I have heard what the Minister said tonight around the future use of that spectrum around lifting the bar and around quality as well as quantity of programming on Māori Television. But we certainly are concerned that there may be other plans for that that may impinge on the ability of Māori Television to develop in the way that it could and should in our country in the next 10 years.So that issue remains as does another issue which is a critical issue and a wider issue because it goes to the Government’s management of spectrum generally right across the board. This is a very topical issue at the moment because if we are going to embrace the digital environment both in broadcasting and across into the mobile technology space then we have to have a consistent logical plan that has the interests of New Zealanders at its heart and is about a true competitive environment in the mobile technology space and in the broadcasting space. It is about the ability for all New Zealanders to access television services and to receive a high-quality public broadcasting service through their taxpayer-funded money.Unfortunately though at the moment we do not have that. We do not have a strategy. We do not have a plan. It is all very ad hoc and we saw yesterday the Minister for Communications and Information Technology Amy Adams make an announcement that she was going to undertake to put out the remaining spectrum in the 700 megahertz band which is the information and communications technology side of it the mobile technology side of it which could have been and should have been held back for strategic purposes. Oh no—in order to make a quick buck because that is where the Government is at it is going to be put out to the highest bidder through auction. What we could end up with and what we are likely to end up with is an environment that is not as competitive as it could and should be and where there is likely to be movement towards that 1990s approach to a monopoly in an important growth market for New Zealand.Then we also have as has been mentioned by me and Kris Faafoi the hand-back—the interesting and somewhat inexplicable last-minute hand-back—of an important body of the spectrum by Sky TV in the broadcasting environment to the Crown with no idea and no public discussion about why what deal was done around that how it is going to be used whether some of it is going to be kept aside for the public arena or whether it is going to be hocked off as well. These are important questions. They go to the Government’s ability to manage an important market. This is a market and an environment that crosses broadcasting and telecommunications space. It is called convergence in case the members on that side still have not woken up to the fact that that has already happened and that there should be a strategy in place. Unfortunately there is not and these things are being managed in a very ad hoc way. Government members are really hanging their heads a bit at the moment because to be honest none of them could get up and give a speech on this topic. That is what is required.We support this bill but we have reservations about it. We will be watching the governance processes very closely we will be watching the appointment process for the new chief executive very closely and we will certainly be providing a comprehensive strategy for the management of these important parts of our economy and our broadcasting environment.CLAUDETTE HAUITI (National): At this time I would like to acknowledge and thank Sir Graham Latimer who was the driver behind the Māori Language Act which established the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Act which we are now talking about amending.This bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill is about the protection and promotion of te reo me ōna tikanga. This isnot a bill about the spectrum. This is not a bill about being a public broadcaster. This is about the promotion and the protection of Te Reo via a free-to-air digital terrestrial television network. I thank my colleagues across the House for recommending and commending this bill to the House.KRIS FAAFOI (Labour—Mana): Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak in the third and final reading of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. Someone earlier on in this debate mentioned the word “taonga”. The translation of that word in to English is treasure. The previous speaker Claudette Hauiti thanked Sir Graham Latimer and I also want to pay tribute to a former colleague Parekura Horomia because this is one of the treasures that Pare left us. I think that from what I have seen from the Minister of Māori Affairs at the Committee stage when he was in the chair and in his third and second reading speeches he absolutely understands that the Māori Television Service or Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori is a treasure. The notion of treasure—and the translation of the word to treasure—in Māori is I think more than just something of worth and value. It is also something that has to be respected.I think that although this bill does deal with the spectrum the increase in the use of Te Reo and getting more coverage of Māori issues and the culture to Māori and non-Māori there are some issues within this bill that we have concerns about. I would like to take the opportunity to thank the Minister because I thought he went some way to addressing a lot of the concerns that we have. We do still have some concerns as to how that may play out—certainly where it pertains to the spectrum—but there have been some other issues at Māori Television recently that have concerned us in particular around the process of the appointment of the chief executive role.I wanted to take some time to talk about the concept of taonga because the Māori Television Service with the hard graft of many people has the very important job of protecting the language. It is not the only avenue that this Government funds and that previous Governments have funded to protect the indigenous language of Māori. We do not have that language anywhere else in the world so to make sure that we have an avenue through which we can see and hear Māori voices and Māori people celebrating educating and I must add entertaining is very very important.So the spirit of the place is different from that of any other public broadcaster that we have in New Zealand. Television New Zealand (TVNZ) a State-owned broadcaster appeals to the masses and it is not its remit to basically look after Te Reo or the Māori culture. That is the job of Māori Television and it is a very special job. I think that we have seen some messy scenes in the process of the appointment of a chief executive. So what I would like to see is maybe some independence there in terms of a governance model to make sure that we do not have any ugly scenes—whether it be from that side of the House or from this side of the House—and to make sure that there is some independence at a governance level so we do not see this kind of thing happen again.Metiria Turei: Does TVNZ do that?KRIS FAAFOI: No I do not believe that it does. That was a response to Metiria Turei. But we cannot let a taonga have a dirty mark like this put on top of it. That is absolutely wrong. So I think that that is the challenge that I might put out to the Minister—to make sure that it does not happen again and that we have some sort of separation from this place to make sure that that kind of thing cannot happen again. I am not calling into question the people behind the decisions that get made but in this case there seems to have been a close personal relationship with an individual who went for a job and also an employment record and then some criticism of questions that were asked on this side of the House. We do respect that the Māori Television Service is a very special broadcaster that it is a treasure and that we need to respect it as a taongaand make sure that these kinds of things and these issues do not happen again. So we respect that and we need to make sure that that is respected as well.In relation to the use of the spectrum—because a large part of this bill is about the spectrum contrary to other speeches that have been made in this House—it is very important for the future of digital technology. The way that it can be used and utilised in the future means that what might be junk today could be very very important when it turns into digital technology in the future. In effect you can take an analog signal and turn it into eight digital signals. The ownership of that spectrum has been moved from the Māori Television Service to another entity Te Pūtahi Paoho and is going to be managed by it. I thank the Minister because when he was in the chair he said that the management of that will be taken with a view to making sure that in the future if any of that spectrum is going to be utilised by anyone other than the Māori Television Service we have been told by the Minister—Hon Todd McClay: Like an old rerun ofCoronation Street. Stop him.KRIS FAAFOI: You can go watchCoronation Street if you want. You are not making any contribution here. We have been told by the Minister that it will be very important to utilise it especially for the use of Māori culture. So I would like to hope that that follows through to ensure that it is utilised for the purpose for which it was originally given to the Māori Television Service.Around the larger overview of the spectrum resource—because the Māori Television Service is not the only entity that has had part of the spectrum allocated to it—the Government’s management has been at best haphazard but it has got an opportunity to make good with the packet of spectrum that has just been given back by Sky. Clare Curran has spoken about the timing of that but regardless of it the Government now has four packets of the spectrum that it will have available to it which it can either do nothing with or can as we have seen in the past hock off.But what we on this side of the House would like is for the Government to ring-fence one of those packets of the digital spectrum which can broadcast eight television stations for any future use around public broadcasting or potentially regional broadcasting. It is very very expensive at the moment for regional broadcasters to get themselves a piece of the spectrum action but it is also going to be very expensive for any future Government that wants to start up a public service broadcaster if there is none of the spectrum available to it.We have seen what the Government has done in its commitment to public broadcasting over its 5-year tenure. It closed down TVNZ 7 and TVNZ 6. So given its track record over the last 5 years I do not hold out much hope for the Government taking a forward-looking approach to any broadcasting. In fact it is a challenge to the Government that maybe if it did reserve some of the soon-to-be-available spectrum that has come across from Sky it might have at least a passing interest in public broadcasting. So that is my challenge to the Government to make sure that if it has any long-term vision for the spectrum—[Bell rung] I just wanted to keep it going; Tim Macindoe is very happy—it does square away and ring-fence the spectrum. But unfortunately I do not hold out much hope of the Government having a long-term vision around that spectrum or public broadcasting.But just to return to the bill and to wind up this is an important bill for the future of the Māori Television Service. It is doing a very good job of meeting its objectives and making sure that it promotes educates and entertains to make sure that the Māori culture is promoted. It is unfortunate that there are some messy scenes at the governance level. I would hope that when the review comes back to the Minister of Māori Affairs and the Minister of Finance we look at another way to independently deal with thesesituations so we do not have messes that do not deserve to be anywhere near the Māori Television Service.METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green): Tēnā koe Mr Assistant Speaker. The Green Party supports this legislation the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. We are very pleased that it has been brought to the House and is about to be passed. That is great.I want to make just a few comments before taking my seat again. One of them is to acknowledge again the role that Māori Television plays in the promotion of Te Reo Māori and tikanga Māori and also the fantastic role it plays in connecting our communities together—the Pākehā community and the Māori community. It shows our own country and the world all of those stories about the reality of Māori lives and all the good stories about Māori lives that do not get shown anywhere else. It is a fantastic service that this station is doing for our country for our relationships and for the process of post-colonial issues that we are having to deal with.I just want to issue a word of caution around some of the comments that have been made this evening. My question to my colleague Kris Faafoi about how Television New Zealand appoints its chief executive was a genuine one. I was not shouting just to be mean. It was a genuine question because there is actually a bit of a fine line between even-handed regulatory oversight for which this Parliament and its agents are responsible and a kind of paternalistic approach to Māori organisations. Māori organisations have suffered paternalistic control and management by the State by State agencies and by Parliament for decade after decade after decade. That has tended to strangle the innovation and opportunities that Māori organisations at all kinds of different levels have but at the same time there is public money that needs to be properly considered.Where there is public money going into any agency anywhere there needs to be even-handed and proper regulatory oversight. From my point of view I absolutely do not think that the structure that determines who the chief executive officer of Māori Television is should be any different from any other structure that is established for any other similar organisation. I think there is a real issue around the way that Māori organisations can often be treated. There are issues around the appointment of staffing or chief executive officers and there are all sorts of issues that arise from time to time with any agency any organisation that receives public funding. Yes the use of that funding should be questioned but Māori organisations must not be treated in a way that exerts more control over them than any other organisation and any attempt to do so is a furthering of the colonisation process. And when you are talking about something like Māori Television which is operating to undo some of those negative impacts of colonisation it undermines the whole effectiveness of that organisation.Having heard all of thekōrero through the second reading some of the Committee stage and even tonight at the third reading I really think that we need to be very cautious about how we treat Māori Television in this context. It is doing a great job. Every organisation is going to have its problems. Yes it is right to question where there is public funding but beyond that there must be absolute caution in making sure that that questioning is even-handed and careful so that Māori organisations are not treated differently from other organisations.Beyond that this is a great bill. It is great to see it passed. It is going to help Māori Television move into the digital age and expand in all sorts of innovative and fantastic ways and we look forward to that future. Kia ora.Hon SHANE JONES (Labour): Kia ora anō tātau. E te Pika o te Whare tēnā koe e hautū nei i a tātau i tēnei pō. Kua riro he 10 meneti te roa o tēnei kōrero māku te katoa otēnā tāima e whakapau kia whai pūkenga ai ō tātau hoa ki tēnā taha o te Whare i a rātau e āmene ana i te kaupapa i roto i te pire nei.Ko te pouaka whakaata me āta whai taringa mai rātou ki Te Reo Māori e kōrerotia ana kātahi ka ngoto mārika ki roto i ō rātau hinengaro ki roto i ō rātau ngākau wairua o Te Reo Māori e kōrerongia ake nei he taonga mai i ō tātau mātua hei kōrerotanga mā tēnei reanga hei tukunga mā mātau ki ngā tamariki ki Aotearoa whānui. Tēnei mātau te tautoko i te pire nei. Ahakoa ōku kōrero horekau he tautoko ki te Minita me hāngai tonu ki te kaupapa o te pire ko te reo Māori me ōna tikanga. Me wewete i ngā take o te Minita ki te taha me hāngai tonu ki ngā take i whakakorikoringia ai ō tātau mātua i te tuatahi.Nā hoki ōku whakaaro ki te matua nei ki a Tā Hēmi—ki a Hēmi Tau. Ka hoki mai ai tēnā kaumātua i te Pakanga Tuarua. Nāna i arataki mai i ngā hōia o te Hokowhitu a Tū. Ka makere mai i te kaipuke nā rātau i whakahoki mai ki Aotearoa. Ka hoki ki te kāinga. Nā ka puea ake te wairua te moemoeā kia pūmau Te Reo Māori i waenga tonu i āna tamariki wāna mokopuna wāna hapū i roto i Te Tai Tokerau. Tahi ka piri atu ki ētahi atu o ngā mātua. Nāna i roto i te rīpoata nei Te Kāhui o Māhutonga tētahi waiata i waiho hei kōrerotanga hei whakamihi mā mātau mō Te Reo Māori. Nā reira tika tonu me mihi atu tātau ki ēnā kaumātua. Ētahi atu ko Charles Mohi ko ngā tuākana ngā tēina o te whānau o ngā Huata ētahi atu ko te kaumātua Tūwhāngai.E mahara ana ahau ki te pīki hui i tū ki roto i Waiwhetū. Ko te tau 1980. Nā i tērā wā ko te tangata nei a Kara Puketapu i te hautū i te tari Māori. Nāna te pūtea i te wā i a Ben Couch nāna te pūtea i rauhī kia tū ai tēnā hui. Ka puta mai ngā kaumātua katoa. Kātahi ka tū mai tētahi o ngā mātua o Whanganui ka tautoko i te kaupapa nei kia whakatōngia he purapura mō Te Reo Māori. Ko tētahi o ngā kaiwhakahaere o tēnā hui ko Ruka Broughton. Ko ia tētahi o ngā pūkenga o te ao Māori i awhi wawe i roto i a mātau i te noho ki Pōneke i tērā wā kia whakawhiwhia tonutia Te Reo Māori i mua i te tukunga mai o te pūtea kia tū ai ngā kōhanga.Nā ētahi atu kaumātua te hia noa atu ēngari ko tētahi wahine i reira nāna ngā kaumātua i tērā pō me ngā kuikuia i whakamātautau i whakataratara. Ko te wahine nei a Iritana Tāwhiwhirangi. I mōhio tātau i a tātau e kōrero ana mō ngā take mō Te Reo Māori arā noa atu te toenga o te kapa whaea kapa matua o tērā wā e toe tonu ana nā rātau tēnei waka i whakarite hei hari i ngā moemoeā o tō tātau iwi. Nā reira i a tātau e mihi ana ki te pire e mihi ana ki te kaupapa kaua tātau e wareware ki te hunga kua whetūrangitia. Ētahi ō rātau e toe ana hei mōrehu hei mihinga mā tātau ō roto i te Whare nei ka mutu ko ngā ingoa o ngā rōpū kua whakaritea hei noho ki Te Pūtahi Pāho.Ahau e tautoko ana i te kaupapa nei. Waiho ko tētahi kēwai o te kete taukawe o te kete e pupuru ko ngā rōpu kei tō tātau ao Māori. Horekau ōku kōrero mō rātau i a rātau e whakarite ana me pēhea te whakahaere. Mā rātau anō tēnā e whakatatū tā te mea ko ngā kanohi o te ao Māori e tau ana ki runga i a rātau. He mōhio nōku ehara rātau i te iwi kūare me pēhea rānei tēnei taonga e poipoia ai e whakakonihi ai hei taonga kia ranea ake te aroha kei ā tātau tamariki mokopuna ki tō tātau Reo Māori. Nā reira ko tāku he tautoko.Ko tāku ki te Minita me rapu tētahi wāhi pūtea pea me whakawhiwhi atu ki ētahi āpiha pea hei āwhina atu i a rātau e mahi ngātahi me te Karauna. I te tuatahi i te ohooho ahau e te Māngai o te Whare ka riro ko rātau hei rangatira mō ngā taonga e karangahia nei he iarere ēngari kua tatū taku ngākau ināianei me taku mōhio horekau ōku hoa i rata mai ki ēnā whakahē ōku kātahi au ka tuku ki raro. Ēngari ko te mahi hei kōrerotanga i tēnei pō kia kaha tātau te whakaaro mai i a koutou e noho ana ngā Minita kia whai huruhuru ai rātau ki te whakatutuki i ngā mahi i roto i te pire whakaarongia ana hei mahi mā rātau. Ka mutu ko ēnei take mō te āhuatanga o tō tātau Reo. Kaua tātau e teWhare e waiho mō tēnei taonga ko pouaka whakaata anakenake hei whakapuāwai i ngā moemoeā kei tēnā hapū kei tēnā iwi ka mutu ko te motu whānui. Waiho tēnā take hei amonga mā tātau katoa. Kia kaua rawa atu Te Reo e whakangoikorengia i roto i ngā kura. Kia kaua rawa atu Te Reo e whakatahangia i a tātau e rapu nei me pēhea rānei ngā manuhiri o rāwāhi e whakataungia ai. Me pēhea rānei ngā hākinakina papai o Aotearoa e wehea mai i Te Reo Māori. Koia tāku e tautoko nei i te kaupapa o ngā Kapa-ō-Pango i a rātau e rapu nei me pēhea rānei Te Reo Māori e kīnakitia ai ki ngā kaupapa ā-rēhia ki ngā kaupapa hākinakina e ngākaunuitia e te whānuitanga o te motu.Ka mutu Te Reo Māori i roto i tēnei pire e whakaarongia ana e kore Te Reo e tika ki te kāhore ngā tikanga noki e tautokotia ka mutu ka waihotia he hōtaka ka waihotia he pakipūmeka hei hari hei hāpai i ngā tikanga nōki. Ka mutu te hunga ka tino whiwhi inā oti i roto i ēnei mahi hōu me kī e whakaarongia ana i roto i te pire nei ko ā tātau tamariki ēngari ko ā tātau hoa Pākehā anō hoki me ngā huanga mai i ngā motu o Te Moana-nui-a-Kiwa. Tāku e īnoi ake nei ki a tātau whakaarongia tētahi tauira ka riro ko Te Reo Māori hei kōrerotanga mā mātau te iwi Māori otirā hei whakarangatira hei whakamihinga hei whakamīharo mā Aotearoa katoa. Nā kia tū ngā kaupapa whakatau i roto i ngā kura kaua e whakatahangia i Te Reo Māori. Kia tū ngā kaupapa kei ngā kaunihera takiwā kei ngā kaunihera kei ngā rohe kei ngā koromatua tukua Te Reo Māori kia rite ki te raukura kia rangatira ai ngā ritenga me ngā tikanga i roto i ngā kaunihera. Ēnei mea katoa e oti mā roto i te pire nei māku ki a tātau ēnei mea katoa ka oti.Ka mutu e te Māngai o te Whare tā mātau i pōuri tā mātau hoki i mānakanaka ai roa rawa te wā tēnei take e tārewa ana. Ka nui noa atu te mānakonako o waenga tonu i a mātau e matatau nei ki Te Reo Māori e īnoi nei ki Te Atua ki te wāhi ngaro kia whakawhiwhia Te Reo Māori ki a mātau tamariki mokopuna ēngari me hāngai. Kaua rawa ēnei take e waiho kia whakatārewatia. Ki te tārewa mārika māku ki a tātau ko ngā kaiamo ko ngā kaitautoko kātahi ka manawa kore kātahi rātau ka ngoikore haere. Nā koia tāku e mea ake nei ki te Minita kia kaha te tautoko hāunga anō i a Pouaka Māori ēngari ko ngā irirangi Māori anō hoki. Arā noa atu te māra hei whakatupu i ngā māhuri āpōpō ka rite rātau hei pupuru i ngā tūranga teitei kei tēnei Pouaka Māori me kī.Kaua e waiho ko tēneki anake hei titiro mā tātau i a tātau e whiriwhiri me pēhea rānei Te Reo Māori e whakapakaringia ēngari tirohia anō hoki ngā irirangi tirohia anō hoki ngā kōhanga. E kore au e kōrero kōhanga ki te aroaro o te Minita he mōhio nōku āhua wera tonu ana tēnā take māna me Hekia Parata mā e rapu me pēhea rānei he rongoā ka kitea kia kaua rawa atu ngā kinonga o te poari whakahaere e māturuturu ki waenga tonu ia kōhanga ia kōhanga.Nā reira e Te Māngai tēnei mātau i te tautoko te mihi atu ki te Minita ahakoa āhua kārawarawa tana tuarā i ahau i mua e pai ana. He kaitōrangapū ahau tū mai tū atu. Horekau ōku raruraru kia puta i a au he kōrero ka whakautua tēnā kōrero ki ahau. Nā reira tēnei mātau te tautoko kia ora tātau katoa.[Greetings to us once again. Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker of the House as you lead us here this evening. This address will take 10 minutes and I will use up the whole time so that our colleagues on the other side of the House can acquire new skills as they endorse the gist of this bill.The television audience must listen intently to the Māori language being spoken and then impress it implicitly in their minds feelings and in the spirit of the Māori language used here as being a treasure from our ancestors for this generation to speculate over and as something from us to the children and the whole of the country. We support this bill. Despite my comments that I do not support the Minister I must remain focused on the essence of this bill which is the Māori language and its customs. We mustdisengage from the matters for the Minister and leave them to one side and remain focused on the matters that our ancestors were negotiating in the first place.My thoughts go back to this elder Sir Hēmi—Hēmi Tau. That elder returned from the Second World War with the soldiers of the Māori Battalion. He disembarked the ship that brought them back to New Zealand and returned home. It was then that the dream manifested for the Māori language to be fixed permanently within his children grandchildren and his subtribes in Northland. Then he consulted other fathers. He left a song in this report of Te Kāhui o Māhutonga for us to talk about the Māori language and to celebrate it. Therefore it is only right that we salute those elders. Others were Charles Mohi elder and younger siblings of the Huata family and Hēnare Tūwhāngai.I recall a huge seminar that was held at Waiwhetū Marae in the 1980s. This person Kara Puketapu was the Secretary of the Māori Affairs department at the time. He put together the funding required for that seminar in Ben Couch’s time. All elders attended. One of the chiefs from Whanganui then stood up and endorsed this proposal about the Māori language and the seed was sown. Ruka Broughton one of the convenors of that seminar an expert in Māoridom and of the Māori language who was living amongst us in Wellington at the time quickly embraced the proposal that the Māori language be made available immediately even before funding to establish language nests had been allocated.Now there were other elders a huge number of them but there was this one particular woman present with other elderly women who tested and challenged the elders that night. This woman was Iritana Tāwhiwhirangi. In our discussions about matters pertaining to the Māori language we must recognise the fact that there are still teams of remaining mothers and fathers of that era left who considered that this would be the vessel to carry the dreams of our people. So while we are paying a tribute to the bill and the proposal we must never forget those who have passed away. Some of them remain as survivors to be acknowledged by us in this House and furthermore as names for the organisations considered to sit on Te Pūtahi Pāho.For me personally I support this proposal and leave our Māori organisations to hold one handle of the flax basket as they ponder over how Te Pūtahi Pāho should operate. I have nothing to say to them. They will have to make those determinations for themselves as they are accountable to Māoridom. I know for a fact that Māoridom is not ignorant in terms of how this treasure should be nurtured and treated with a great deal of stealth so that the love that our children and grandchildren have for our Māori language will well up in abundance. So my part is to support it.I urge the Minister to provide a portion perhaps of the funding for officials to perhaps help them work collaboratively with the Crown. At first I was wary Mr Assistant Speaker of the House that they would end up being the owners of property called spectrum but I am satisfied now knowing that some colleagues of mine were not too pleased with my opposing views so I sat down. But what we should be doing this evening while seated is to work hard to come up with strategies so that Ministers have the tools to work with to fulfil the tasks in the bill under consideration. Furthermore these matters relate to the state of our language. We the House must never allow this property the television set to be the sole means of bringing the dreams of that subtribe tribe and nation to fruition. We should all bear that responsibility. The Māori language must never be weakened in the schools and put to one side while we contemplate how visitors from overseas are to be welcomed or for that matter how top sports in New Zealand can be extricated from the Māori language. That is why I support the All Blacks’ philosophy as they seek ways to embellish well-liked pleasure and sports pursuits at a national level with the Māori language.As well as that the Māori language being considered in this bill would not be appropriate without its supporting customs too and what is more it is left to a programme a documentary to bear and take up the role of customs. As well the ones who will really benefit from these new applications being considered in this bill will not only be our children but also our non-Māori friends and Pacific Island relations. My plea to us all is to consider a model where the Māori language is left for us the Māori people to articulate treat with dignity eulogise and admire for the whole of New Zealand. So when there is a welcome ceremony in schools the Māori language is not parked up on the side. When it comes to ceremonies at local government council regional and mayoral levels allow the Māori language and its customs to prevail just like a plume a treasure so that council proceedings and protocols are conducted with dignity. I assure you that all these things can be accomplished in this bill.Beyond that Mr Assistant Speaker of the House we were disappointed and anxious too about the length of time this matter has been hanging around unresolved. There is much desire among us the ones fluent in the Māori language to have it made available to our children and grandchildren and we pray to God and the place out of sight that this happens. But it must be relevant. These matters should never be suspended and left unresolved. If this is a deliberate ploy then bearers and supporters will become disheartened and listless. That is what I was alluding to when I said the Minister should work hard to provide support not only to Māori Television but also to Māori radio. There are many plantations where saplings for tomorrow are planted so that their like can fill high positions at this Māori Television shall we say.We should not focus on this alone as we consider how to strengthen the Māori language but should examine the situation relating to radio and language nests as well. I will not mention language nests in front of the Minister because I know that is still a somewhat hot topic for him Hēkia Parata and others as they continue to look for a remedy to ensure that problems at Te Kōhanga Reo National Trust will not trickle down directly to each and every language nest.And so Mr Assistant Speaker we do support the bill and congratulate the Minister even though I inflicted some welts on his back in the past but that is fine. I am a politician through and through. I do not have any problems with expressing a view and the response that is made to me. So we do endorse this and greetings to us all.]NICKY WAGNER (National—Christchurch Central): Kia ora Mr Assistant Speaker. I support the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. The Māori Affairs Committee worked hard on this bill. We considered all the issues in detail and we believe that this bill will empower and enhance the Maori Television Service and allow Māori Television to better protect Māori language and culture for the long term. I commend this bill to the House.JONATHAN YOUNG (National—New Plymouth): Tēnā koe Mr Assistant Speaker. I am very pleased to stand in support of this bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. We can celebrate 25 years of the Māori language being an official language. We now have 27 iwi radio stations broadcasting on 68 frequencies promoting Māori language and culture. I am very pleased to commend this bill to the House.RINO TIRIKATENE (Labour—Te Tai Tonga): Tēnā koe Mr Assistant Speaker. Tēnā koutou i te Whare. I am very pleased to speak at this third reading of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. I would like to acknowledge the Minister of Māori Affairs and my honourable colleague Shane here—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson): Full name—full name.RINO TIRIKATENE: —Mr Jones Mr Jones—for their contributions in Te Reo Māori because that is really what this bill is about. Sure there has been a long whakapapa to this particular bill but the essence of it is the protection and promotion of Te Reo Māori me ōna tikanga. We have empowered the Māori Television Service through this bill to enter into the digital age. It is going to be exciting to see what the future holds in terms of the digital platforms and the different mediums by which we will be able to consume content from the Māori Television Service but fundamentally it is about te reo me ōna tikanga.So yes this is a significant occasion. My thoughts go to the late Hon Parekura Horomia the instigator the champion and the Minister in charge of the establishment of the Māori Television Service who enshrined a review mechanism that has now led us to this review coming up to the 10th anniversary of the Māori Television Service. So we acknowledge those who have passed rātou ki a rātou but tātou te hunga ora. We are delighted to usher in this new chapter for Māori Television and the clarified and sharpened functions for the service. But there is also the conferring of rights to Te Pūtahi Paoho which will manage the spectrum that will be allocated which will allow the Māori Television Service to broadcast through the 4G digital platform in high definition—yes the wonders of modern broadcasting. So we commend this bill.We do support this bill. Sure we have raised some concerns regarding the composition of Te Pūtahi Paoho. But I notice that there is one name and one organisation on here that I do acknowledge—and I am so pleased that it is still there—Ngā Kaiwhakapūmau i te Reo. I acknowledge the koroua kaumātua Huirangi Waikerepuru who was as I understand it one of the original claimants before the Waitangi Tribunal. They also took a case all the way to the Privy Council to fight for the recognition that the Crown has an active obligation. That Privy Council case established that the Crown has an active duty to protect and promote Te Reo Māori. It is a legal obligation on the Crown based on the Treaty. That rangatira who is still on Te Pūtahi Paoho is what this is all about. We need those elder statesmen and those kaumātua to be on those bodies in recognition of the contribution that they have made in fighting for our language for its survival.It is just wonderful that we can recognise those bodies and I guess we are looking forward to the Minister of Māori Affairs sharpening up the composition of Te Pūtahi Paoho. Sure if there are some redundant organisations that have been withdrawn or are discontinuing let us tidy that up—you know kei te pai—and then let us get on with the mahi.I do have one story which has actually just come back to me. In a former life of mine I suppose a few years ago I was a corporate lawyer—in the mid to late 1990s. This was around the time when there were a lot of asset sales going on. There were the sales of Contact Energy and the Auckland International Airport and we were doing some work for a very big corporate investment banking firm whose people had flown in from overseas. We were talking with Treasury and in those days the sale of Television New Zealand (TVNZ) was very very close to happening.Hon Maurice Williamson: I tried—I tried.RINO TIRIKATENE: Lo and behold it was that Minister opposite over there. So it was very close to taking place. I was involved in that and I had to give the advice to the investment bankers as to what the risks were and what was going to happen. The essence of my advice was that the Crown could not proceed with the sale at that time because it was too risky because of the legal obligations that the Crown had to Māori particularly in terms of the protection of the Māori language. So fortunately yes my advice was correct because the Government did back down from the sale. It backed down because it did have a legal obligation. It took a Labour Government to actuallyfulfil the obligation under the Treaty that led to the creation of the Māori Television Service. So here we are nearly 10 years on and the Māori Television Service is thriving. I certainly do hope that TVNZ is not on the radar of this Government for any potential future sale—that is all I can say.In passing can I get back to the core functions of the Māori Television Service. It is about the protection and promotion of Te Reo Māori me ōna tikanga and I am looking forward to seeing more creative content. In particular we have amended the functions of the Act to take into account the quality the integrity of Te Reo for native speakers—first-language speakers—as well. We may see the proliferation of more channels or more avenues for content for different audiences. We are seeing that with the Te Reo channel that it has already and we might see further refinement. It might be particular iwi—who knows? The future is definitely exciting.I do look forward to seeing Māori Television progress. I look forward to the announcement of its new chief executive when that person is finally appointed. Māori Television definitely needs a new chief to steer that waka.Hon Maurice Williamson: I wantMister Edin Te Reo again. He was good.RINO TIRIKATENE: Well there might beMister Edin Te Reo but I am looking forward to the—oh I forget the name but there is the NBA—the free-to-air National Basketball Association games which screen on Māori Television. I am looking forward to hearing Pierre Lyndon giving commentary with his great Ngāti Hine dialect—“The ball goes down to Steven Adams in the low post. He does a move and he goes down the keyhole and he does a two-handed slamdunk in the face right on top of LeBron James.”—all in the most beautiful Reo language. So it is exciting and I might be able to watch that on my mobile phone or through high-definition TV.I commend this bill to the House. I look forward to considering it further and I wish Māori Television all the very best. Kia ora tātou.SCOTT SIMPSON (National—Coromandel): It is a pleasure to take a short call in this third reading debate and to join members from across the Chamber and on the Government side in commending this bill the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill to the House for favourable passage through the House.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour—Hauraki-Waikato): I am pleased to be able to make a contribution in the third reading to support the passage of the Māori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Iriranga Māori) Amendment Bill. It would be a great sign actually and a milestone in fact if members in this House were to continue to promote in 5 or 10 years’ time what is happening in the Māori Television space. There is innovation. There is excitement. If members in this House could point to a number of programmes there because they see it as reflecting the face of New Zealand then I think that that in itself speaks volumes for the contribution that Māori Television makes not only to broadcasting but to increasing the knowledge amongst many New Zealanders in many communities of just how vibrant our country is.On 28 March next year the 10th anniversary of Māori Television will be reached. There have been some ups and downs sure but by and large what we have seen in the broadcasting space with the contribution of Māori Television is a clear role for a Māori broadcaster to protect and enhance Te Reo Māori not just for Māori but for a broader range of New Zealanders. Why is this important? It is important because in our daily lives many of our children interact with all sorts of other children and they want to appreciate each others’ culture. Recognising the unique identity of our children is I think a step towards increasing tolerance appreciating difference and seeing the unique potential of our young people as they grow up in our wonderful country. I do believe that Māori Television has a part to play in this process.Parekura Horomia was the Minister who initiated Māori Television and he did it with a simple ambition: we want more of our kids to wake up in the morning being proud of who they are speaking their language and being unafraid to exercise their culture and their heritage in a way that can contribute to the well-being of their communities their whānau and their country.But let me say this: the types of innovation we have seen in Māori television are like when Te Matatini the biennial senior kapa haka competition is live streamed as it is happening on the day. I look forward to Te Matatini being live streamed from Christchurch to many people who will not able to travel there. Also what we have seen in terms of Māori Television contributing to the public broadcasting space is the promotion of events that some New Zealanders would have to pay for—the Tua fight against Cameron the Rugby World Cup. Those are two types of events where Māori Television said “Well actually this is a public event of some interest. We want to participate on this front.” I applaud its efforts to recognise that it can fill a certain niche within the public broadcasting space that contributes to the vibrancy of this country and that opens up a world of opportunity and insight to the Māori world view and more important to the global view of indigenous people.We have seen a number of innovations in the programming space. Some entertainment value has been got from my comment of being a mum of young children and being delighted thatDora the Explorer was going to be promoted in Te ReoMāori. Why? Because my children like watching all sorts of cartoons and I am really optimistic about their ability to access cartoons in Te Reo Māori because I can continue to uphold what happens in our home which is promoting and speaking as much Māori as possible but at a level where my children can understand. Having access to cartoons actually is one of those ways of doing that.In the Māori Affairs Committee we talked about some of the I guess concerns aroundTe Pūtahi Paoho as I had mentioned previously so as not to impede the bill but to raise with the Minister ofMāori Affairs our concerns about the governance body. The Minister has since said that he has assured himself that this is in hand and that this is something he will ensure will be given some attention in the ongoing governance arrangement between the Crown andTe Pūtahi Paoho.By and large we have seenMāori Television grow at a time where its budget has flatlined. We have seen Māori Television take the necessary steps to tailor its activities but not its imagination to its budget. It has a Facebook page. It is engaged in Twitter. Its programming engages the audience whether it is through Facebook and Twitter through 0900 numbers to vote on its various shows or by getting all sorts of people from all walks of life into its programming or into programmes that are promoted on Māori Television. I applaud that because I believe that in a country like ours where we have so much vibrancy and where we have so much opportunity to promote how diverse our country is a public broadcaster should be doing this. I believe that Māori Television is doing it very well.I do want to see Māori Television grow. I do hope that this bill is a step towards that. It is signalled within the context of this legislation that ongoing reviews will happen and should happen with the agreement ofTe Pūtahi Paoho and the responsible Ministers. But more important it continues to carve out a key role thatMāori Television has in the broadcasting space to promote the very best of our culture language and heritage to every New Zealander should they want to access it. I am delighted about the way in which the broadcasting landscape has been broadened. I look forward to the day when Pacific television emerges on that landscape because I can see—Hon Maurice Williamson:Mister Ed in Samoan.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: —that this is a real opportunity to again reinforce—the Minister may make a gibe aboutMister Ed but that is more a reflection of his time and the one-syllable sentences that people of that era understood. That is why we all find it good entertainment value. But there is no problem with havingMister Ed translated into any type of language. If it means that the Hon Maurice Williamson will watchMāori Television because ofMister Ed then I say Māori Television has succeeded.The real point of this contribution tonight is to say that given that Māori Television is 10 years into its operation—it has had some ups and downs mainly ups—there is still a lot of entertainment value in this station there is still a lot of contribution that the station can make in the broadcasting space and there is a whole lot of opportunity for a lot of young people who see the digital age as an opportunity to engage their talent and potential in new and dynamic ways. I support the bill. I support its intent.Ki a koe te Minita ahakoa ngā piki me ngā heke mō ngā kōrero e pā ana ki tēnei pire nui te mihi atu ki a koe. Kia ora tātou.[To you the Minister regardless of the ups and downs of the speeches in respect of this bill I acknowledge you greatly. My thanks to us.]TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): I also support this bill theMāori Television Service (Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi Māori) Amendment Bill. I thank all members for their constructive contributions to the debate. I congratulate the Minister of Māori Affairs on bringing it to this point.Me whakanuia e tātou. [We should honour it.]Bill read a third time.