8. Question No. 8—HousingHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) to the Minister of HousingQuestion No. 8—Housing8. Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) to the Minister of Housing: How many additional social houses will be created as a result of the Priority One category for emergency housing announced yesterday?Hon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing): The Government's creation of the priority one category will prioritise getting families with children out of emergency housing under stable social housing sooner. Therefore more social housing is not created directly as a result of this policy change. We've committed through our manifesto to increase the number of social housing places in line with the previous Government's funding track. The member will note that the previous Government left a fiscal cliff of funding for social housing so any future funding is subject to Budget decisions. The priority one category is only the beginning of the steps we will be taking to end the large-scale use of emergency housing motels and returning them to rarely and briefly needed—as a last resort. Addressing the issue of emergency housing is complex and as I said yesterday will require a sustained and coordinated effort over multiple years to achieve our aim. But the key thing is we're not going to sit by like the last Government did and ignore it. We are taking action.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order. That was a reasonably straight question. It was a question on notice. I'm sure it wouldn't have been accepted if it wasn't a straight question. But throughout that response from the Minister it was attacking the previous Government which—you have ruled yourself—is inappropriate.SPEAKER: I have. But when I've said that it's if the question opens with an attack. But if it's used as a comparison between two positions Speakers' rulings are very clear that that is permissible. So I'll keep a listen out. I think there was some language used in there like fiscal cliff" that was probably unacceptable but I'm sure that the next question will be better answered.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Why then did the Government make an emergency housing announcement without committing to funding more additional social housing?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well for a couple of reasons. One is that you don't need to do both things at the same time. The second point is that not everyone who goes from emergency housing goes into social housing. Actually the housing system is extremely complex. The relationships between emergency housing and social housing and transitional are actually not linear. We see private landlords and the wider housing system as a part of the solution and work is under way across every part of the housing continuum: from homeownership through the rental market through the private landlord market and through the social housing generally.Hon Kieran McAnulty: If they can't stay in emergency housing and the Government won't commit to funding more social housing transitional housing or rental places where are they supposed to go?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well the member's question is based upon a false assumption. There is more social housing coming. The Budget 2023 increased social housing places by 3000. That goes on top of Budget 2022. So between 18 months ago and two years up until June 2025 there are 6000 new social housing places delivered both by Kāinga Ora and by the community housing sector. So there are more social housing places. Decisions around future social housing funding is a matter for the Budget—the member will have to wait.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order. The previous question the Minister referred to additional social housing. I too have used the words "additional" and "more". By virtue of that it is on top of what has already been committed. All the Minister just outlined are social houses that were funded by the previous Government and I'm asking him about his commitment that he stated in his answer to funding additional social houses. It's not appropriate I believe for the Minister to point to things that are happening particularly when it wasn't him that established those.SPEAKER: Well I'll let you go right through that point of order because essentially you were making a point that is outside of the Standing Orders as such. But the answer that I heard relates to the date 2025 where there is more social housing; that's still at least 18 months off and through one more Budget period. So I think the claim is not right and nor is the point of order.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Will he guarantee to the House that his Government will not sell off social houses like what happened the last time National were in Government?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Ha ha—ha ha!Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Why's he laughing? It's not funny.Hon Nicola Willis: You did it! Hon CHRIS BISHOP: I'll just wait for colleagues—SPEAKER: No no just answer it.Hon CHRIS BISHOP: The previous Government sold social houses so let's just be really clear about this. The last Labour Government sold social houses and the policy settings that Kāinga Ora was operating under in relation to the difference between the 2008 period and the 2017 period did not change after the Labour Government was elected. It is true that the National Government from 2008 to 2017—which by the way I'm not responsible for but I'm happy to comment extensively on—transferred ownership of some social housing in Tauranga to Accessible Properties. Here's the thing—here's the thing: the people living in the houses were social housing tenants. It's just that the Government did not happen to own the underlying house. And actually on this side of the House we are relatively agnostic about who provides housing to people in need. Unlike the last Government we do not have an obsession with the idea that the Government should do everything in housing. We back communities we back the private sector and we back housing for Kiwis. Hon Kieran McAnulty: If the Minister is unwilling—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Just wait for that silence.Hon Kieran McAnulty: If the Minister is unwilling to provide that guarantee will he at least guarantee to the House that levels of homelessness will not increase as a result of the announcement made yesterday?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: The fastest way to increase homelessness would have been for the Government to continue with the funding track we inherited which would have seen 10000 State houses sold off by Kāinga Ora because of that member's party's woeful mismanagement of one of the biggest companies in New Zealand. Under the funding track we inherited in writing Kāinga Ora was planning to sell 10000 State houses. We're not prepared to sit around and tolerate that. That's why we're reviewing Kāinga Ora.Hon Kieran McAnulty: If homelessness goes up under his watch will he resign?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: I plan on being a better Minister responsible for homelessness than the last one the Hon Marama Davidson who saw homelessness skyrocket to record levels and couldn't even spend the money that Megan Woods allocated to her."