Rurawhe Adrian; Penk Chris; Parker DavidClause 3 Amendments to Acts as set out by administering agency in Schedules 1 to 32CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Members we now come to the debate on clause 3 including Schedules 1 to 32. This is the debate on the amendments to Acts. CHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi): Thank you Mr Chair. I was wondering if the Attorney-General could give us some guidance about where the line is drawn in terms of regulations that set a fee or levy. I understand that the general principle is that those tend to have legislative effect such that they should be regarded as secondary legislation but that's not always the case. So if any guidance can be given in that regard that would be very helpful indeed.Hon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General): I look forward to the more precise guidance that will come from the Regulations Review Committee.CHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi): Thank you very much. I wonder in that case if there is an answer that can be given from the chair—other than to simply go away and find out myself wearing a different hat—if he can comment on the process of deciding what has significant legislative effect such as it was included in the many schedules some 30 or so and is he confident that most if not all such instruments have been picked up in that big process that would have been undertaken by many civil servants including—and especially I suppose—the Parliamentary Counsel Office (PCO) as colleagues have already acknowledged.Hon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General): Yes I am. There has been an enormous amount of work that has been done by PCO in particular over a number of years now. It is tedious work I would venture to suggest but they have had to go through the regulation-making powers of every Act that empowers regulations to be made and determined whether they meet the threshold for inclusion in this bill. The vast majority do; there are a small number that don't. I've already addressed that issue in terms of some subsidiary rules that don't meet that test of legal importance.In respect of some of the other changes that were made Vanushi Walters just asked me about a provision relating to the correction to correct amendments to ensure that the empowering provisions and related procedural provisions will integrate correctly with the Legislation Act 2019. That is necessary because the prior version of the bill the bill that went to the select committee was drafted before the Legislation Act 2019 was passed and therefore some of these things had to be updated in order to meet the changes that were made by that Act.Look I've got great confidence that this will be 99.9 percent right. It is possible that there is still some regulation-making power that sits in a piece of legislation that has been missed inadvertently; if it has been then that needs to be updated. I'm sure there are processes through this Parliament that we can tidy up. You know I don't know how many regulation-making powers changed here but I would say overall from the range of Acts that there are many hundreds if not thousands.CHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi): Thank you Mr Chair. Perhaps my final contribution to this clause within the bill. I wonder if the Minister can guide us in relation to the process—well if anything the education and I'm struggling for a word that is appropriate—but the understanding of the civil service going forward in terms of the change of regime whereby we've got a much clearer and coherent set of well rules regulations I might say in sort of a pretty general way using ordinary meaning of the words that will be brought under this regime. Do you anticipate that it will be widely known and indeed celebrated out there in Wellington effectively what we are doing here tonight in going forward so that we don't have to play catch-up in the future and you know correct language whether it is notices or orders or other things that might properly following the passage of this into an Act be simply called secondary legislation"?Hon DAVID PARKER (Attorney-General): I think there will be rejoicing in the street that we no longer have DINLIs—for people who sit on the Regulations Review Committee and I can't even remember the full name of what that stands for now. I was on the select committee when we started this process when this actually started from an inquiry into disallowable instruments that the committee ran. We then spoke with the then Attorney-General Chris Finlayson who agreed it was an appropriate piece of work to kick off and I thank him for that.In respect of your earlier question around fees officials have provided me with a note that is helpful. Legislation that sets fees in just about all cases falls within the definition of the sort of secondary legislation that is caught by this bill. The only exception is where the payment of the fee is voluntary because it is a voluntary organisation for which the fee is set. So if it is compulsory then it is caught."