Mapp Wayne: Corrections Bill — Third Reading 
Mapp Wayne: Corrections Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:617;Page:13350] 
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
: 
 One cannot help but reflect on the last comment made by the Government senior whip who praised Mr Robson’s speech. It is quite extraordinary that she should have done that because for the last minute—and only in the last minute—Mr Robson felt it necessary to condemn the management of the Auckland Central Remand Prison. Of course in doing so he was completely oblivious to the facts and that is why National has said that this bill is a monument to ideology. We say that for the reason that the Government is persisting in closing down a private prison even though all the evidence says the Government should keep it in private management. I suspect that one of the reasons Mr Robson waited until the very last minute to discuss that prison—and only on being prompted by an interjection—is that he knows that is true. He knows it is an embarrassment to have to get up in Parliament today and pass a bill that represents a vote against practical experience. It is surely the refuge of the desperate to prefer ideology over common sense. I would like to remind Mr Robson—because I am sure he knows this saying—of the Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping’s saying that it does not matter whether the cat is black or white if it catches mice. In other words should we not prefer real-life experience over ideology? 
Let us look at the facts. The cost of remanding a prisoner at the Auckland Central Remand Prison is $43000 per annum. In a public remand prison publicly managed the cost is $54000. If that is not enough one has only to visit that prison to get a real sense of the difference between the two systems. I know that Mr Robson has in fact visited the Auckland Central Remand Prison and that is why he knows why it works. I guess that is why he spent so much time on referring in his speech to the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters. As Mr Robson knows that is also an example of the private sector providing more effective programmes than the State. He spent I suppose something like 5 minutes of his speech on praising the Home Interaction Programme for Parents and Youngsters—and it is well that he should because it is a successful programme that was implemented by National. The programme works because it is detached from the public sector and is not besotted with a huge bureaucracy but has people who work effectively on the ground. 
I have visited quite a number of the prisons of New Zealand. I must admit that I was initially sceptical about the issue of private prisons because I had thought that that was a core area of State activity. I was convinced by what I saw. I saw the most effective prison in New Zealand’s history being run really well not just in a sense of keeping the public safe but also in terms of getting a new attitude both within the staff and on the part of remand prisoners themselves. And it is not just a question of remand prisoners because approximately one-third of the prisoners are actually sentenced prisoners or in other words people who have been convicted by the courts and are serving their sentence. So in fact the Auckland Central Remand Prison is not only a remand prison. Members will be interested to know as I am sure Government members do know if they have thought about this issue or taken their ideological blinkers off that there is actually a demand by sentenced prisoners to get into the remand prison. They want to go there because it is such a good prison. There are work opportunities greater educational opportunities than in the public prisons and basically a better environment for rehabilitation because the bond of trust that is built up between the staff and prisoners sets up the climate for effective rehabilitation. 
We have heard in the House today about many of the deep-seated problems of the public prison service. Some people referred to the “goon squad” and others referred to the problem of sexual relations between staff and prisoners. All those things tell us that the culture of the public prisons is wrong and that it has led to a poorly performing prison service. I find it extraordinary that the Government has a $500 million programme to build new prisons at approximately $250 million per prison—one up in the far north and one in the mid-Waikato area. In contrast the remand prison built along the most modern lines drawn from the United States and clearly effective cost $40 million—one-quarter of that price. I know Government members will say that is because it is only a remand prison. Well I ask the Government why there is a big demand from sentenced prisoners to go and serve their sentences in that prison? Why can we not repeat that prison around the country? Frankly in the words of Deng Xiaoping if the cat catches mice it works so we should keep it. That is the message. That is the lesson from the People’s Republic of China and its Government had to do the most revolutionary change: a change from pure communist ideology to the free market. It did that because it works and that surely is the lesson from Australasian Correctional Management’s running of the remand prison. 
I found it absolutely extraordinary today to listen to the Green member. It was probably his most animated speech in my several years here in the House. One has to ask why the Greens find a private prison so fearful a prospect that they have put their deepest energies and ideological commitment into opposing it. What is wrong with that party? Then I reflected on the fact that the senior Government whip exhorted members on the Opposition side of the House to listen carefully to the Green member because we would learn something. I guess that tells us something does it not? It tells us that the Government’s preferred coalition partner is the Green Party. That is what the Government will be offering the country just 12 months from now—an unholy alliance between Labour and the Greens! I can tell the country and the Government that the public will not buy it. That is why Mr Marc Alexander will have an opportunity to vote for common sense because he will be voting for a National-led Government in a little over 1 year’s time. 
I just want to close on this ironical point. Mr Marc Alexander gave a very good speech today—thoughtful and considered. He and the United Future party will vote against this bill. The irony is this: tomorrow the United Future members will vote for the money to fund this bill. Is that not extraordinary? This is a time for the United Future party to recognise that the Government has failed. Every day during question time we see the look of despondency and despair on the faces of Government members. Nowhere was that more evident than with Mr Tamihere today. I know for a fact that he did not believe one word of his earlier speech. When it gets to the stage whereby a senior Government Minister has to basically argue against his own beliefs one knows that the Government has failed. There will be a judgment day in just a few months’ time.