O'Connor GregGREG O'CONNOR (Labour—Ōhāriu): Criminals hate going to court. It's a place that when they are messing around or committing crime they actually in the process—the thing that they are most scared of it's often not going to jail it's often not going to the police cells; it's going to court because that's the one place where it's all on display where what they've done they are called to account for it.Now I'm always wary of anything that takes what is the centre point of the criminal justice system which is the court out of being the centre of that very thing. I'll give you a really good example of that. In about 2012 the then National Government instructed the police to reduce the number of entries into the criminal justice system by 19 percent over 12 months. The police were very successful. They brought in a system called pre-charge warning and whereas before people who were picked up on the street would end up having to go to court on Monday or Wednesday morning—number one court—and face it that stopped happening and all of a sudden that consequence was gone. Police embraced it. It went to 25 percent very quickly and the behaviour changed over time. I coined a phrase then tag and release" which it became because you would get the police going around on a Saturday night picking up people putting them in the cells but they would go out and there was no consequence; they didn't have to go to court on that Monday or Wednesday morning. That has affected behaviour of a new generation of criminals coming through who are never called to account by standing in court.So while I'll be supporting this and we'll be supporting this to select committee we have to be very wary at the same time that we're not for the sake of maybe cutting down the number of people we will need the number of buildings we will need that we're actually not taking away the essence of the criminal justice system.Now criminals sitting at home I can just see it now—"I was at court I appeared and I was sitting there with a joint sitting next to me." It will become a joke because there will be other people sitting there watching sitting and standing—or more importantly standing in front of a judge in number one court is a very important point. We put the judges at the centre of our system too and we give them the authority—incredible authority—to take people's freedom away to take their bail away. So having to front up at court and be part of that system is an incredibly important part of this whole system.So I know this bill is going to be about enabling more work to be done remotely but I just say: be very careful because it will work fine for about one or two years but all of a sudden in five years like we did with the tag and release we will actually start to regret this. So yes use the system. You've only got to be part of the court system to see that it is pretty primitive. The paper-based system is only just moving on to electronic because one of the problems with that of course is you've had to have the judges you've had to get the lawyers you've had to get the police and even now you're going to have to get the criminals involved in the electronics and someone a flash salesman from an IT company will come and tell you that you can join all these things up and will call it INCIS but it's very hard to make it happen. So having now another player in putting these three now four parts of the system together electronically and still keep the essence of an important part of the criminal justice system—it's not that easy.So I'm quite happy that we will support this but I'd encourage particularly those members of the Justice Committee who'll be hearing this to take a wider view of this and see how this will look how this will change behaviours. It's a short-term measure. It will certainly hopefully make the process a little bit cheaper and maybe less courts less people will be needed but just think as a Justice Committee—and I know there are lawyers who will be on that Justice Committee who may end up standing in number one court again at some stage. They will see the impact of these behaviour changes that will come about as a result of more electronic use of the court system. They will see those changes. They won't see them instantly; they will see them in about five years' time.So never take that number one court on a Monday morning out of being the centre point of the criminal justice system and make sure as I said at the start that criminals don't want to go there and they will think twice before doing some of the things they do. I'll support this to select committee. Thank you Madam Speaker."