8. Question No. 8—ACCHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West) to the Minister for ACCQuestion No. 8—ACC8. Hon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West) to the Minister for ACC: Does he stand by all his answers to Oral Question No. 10 yesterday?Hon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister for ACC) on behalf of the Minister for ACC: Yes.Hon Tim Macindoe: Have ACC officials made a very convincing case to him" as to why petrol prices should increase by a further 1.9c a litre through the proposed motor vehicle levy?Hon PEENI HENARE: On behalf of the Minister the consultation process for levies actually ends today. No doubt upon the completion of the consultation process advisers will come back to the Minister with the advice from the consultation where he will forward that conversation to Cabinet for a decision to be made.Hon Tim Macindoe: What is the current financial position of the ACC scheme in terms of assets reserves and investments?Hon PEENI HENARE: On behalf of the Minister if the member was listening only today the current ACC annual report was tabled in the House and I'm sure all of the up-to-date figures will be in there. The numbers that were given by the Minister yesterday were the data that he had at hand.Hon Tim Macindoe: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This was effectively a question on notice because it is exactly the same supplementary question that I asked the Minister yesterday. [Interruption] SPEAKER: Order! Sorry we'll give another couple of supplementaries to make up for the interruption. The member can have his point of order again.Hon Tim Macindoe: You'd like me to raise the point of order again sir?SPEAKER: Yes.Hon Tim Macindoe: Sir the point I was making is that this was effectively a question on notice because the primary question asked if he stood by all of his answers from yesterday's oral question and this is exactly the same as a supplementary question that I asked yesterday that the Minister didn't answer at that time.SPEAKER: Well my view is that he sort of not only answered it but doubled down. He said he stood by the figures from yesterday and there are some updated ones available on the Table now.Hon Tim Macindoe: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Are you saying that by putting a document on the Table of the House that is a sufficient answer to a question during oral question time?SPEAKER: Well I think that if one references a newly tabled document immediately available to members with the updated figures of the type that the member is asking for then the answer certainly does address the question.Hon Tim Macindoe: Why does the Minister consider that it would be "bordering on unconstitutional" for him to give advice to his ACC officials?Hon PEENI HENARE: On behalf of the Minister it's very clear the consultation process for the levies. The words of the Minister were in effect not an attempt to pre-empt any of the consultation process and to make sure that once the consultation process was finished the right process would be followed from there and that is to collect all of the consultation submissions that were made and put that together. Then there would be a conversation of course to be had with ministerial colleagues and then on to Cabinet for further decision-making to be had.Hon Tim Macindoe: That was a long answer but the Minister has not answered the question of why it would border on being unconstitutional for a Minister to give advice to officials. SPEAKER: Well I think it did address the question and this area both yesterday and today sort of reinforces to me the need for some better training for MPs on processes. Hon Gerry Brownlee: When the Minister told the House yesterday that the ACC accounts were very very full and that there needed to be some rebalancing of those accounts did he convey that to the board of ACC and is he concerned that the board appeared not to listen to him by proposing the consultation document that ACC levies for motor vehicles go up?Hon PEENI HENARE: Sorry Mr Speaker. Can he repeat—I was mistaken and thought it was a point of order.SPEAKER: Yes—no I think many of us thought that you were overriding the point of order rather than asking a question. I think it was a very good question. The member should ask it again.Hon Gerry Brownlee: When the Minister said yesterday in an answer to a question that the ACC accounts were very full and that they needed to be rebalanced down did he convey that Government position to the board of ACC and is he concerned that the board of ACC did not listen to him in preparing a consultation document that has motor vehicle levies going up?Hon PEENI HENARE: On behalf of the Minister I'm sure that upon the balance of all of the submissions after the consultation period the Minister will then be able to make more direct communications to the board and of course to his ministerial colleagues in Cabinet. Hon Amy Adams: That's not an answer.SPEAKER: Order! Can—I'm tempted to call the member the wrong name. The Hon Amy Adams the Minister is making an attempt to answer the question. I think he's probably going to make another attempt in a minute but I want to be able to hear if he gets to an answer and I can't if the member is making those noises.Hon PEENI HENARE: On behalf of the Minister can I first say that the figures given by the Minister yesterday were the figures that he had at hand and acknowledging that the brand new annual report was tabled in the House today. Secondly with regard to advice to and fro between the board and the Minister it was very clear that through the consultation period we needed to let that take its course to ensure that the voices of the people were heard on the matter. Once that's concluded and the submissions are gathered together there will be advice and further conversations had between the Minister ministerial colleagues Cabinet and no doubt the board. SPEAKER: OK. Hon Judith Collins: Proper process.SPEAKER: No I can deal with it. The question asked I think was about communications which included the period before the consultation document. Now it may be as the Minister's an acting Minister he's not aware of the detail of it—and there's nothing wrong with saying that—but if the Minister who is acting for the Minister is aware of any advice or discussions before the things went out he should say so—otherwise he should just say that he's not aware and we can move on.Hon PEENI HENARE: I am not aware. However having the consultation document in front of me there are proposals in here that make it quite clear what the purpose of the consultation process was.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Despite your assistance to the Minister answering the question the answer ignores the fact that ACC is a beast of statute. There is a letter of direction to ACC as to how they should operate. There is a concern expressed in this House by the Minister that the funds or the accounts of ACC are topping 120 percent etc. and then a concern and then a suggestion that it's OK for the board to go out and consult on whether even more money should be taken off New Zealanders. Now I'm simply asking in that question: was the Minister consistent in his dealing with ACC and its board in the answer that he gave to the House yesterday?SPEAKER: None of that is clear and it's not going to be answered now. But the thing that I will do is remind the Minister acting for the Minister in the House today especially given what happened yesterday that we should make sure that we always say "on behalf of the Minister" and that that is understood because otherwise we might be running into another problem. Now I don't think we're going to make much more progress here. I think the standard thing is if members want to progress it they should put down a very specific question about it or follow other processes.Hon Tim Macindoe: If his Government was "very well aware of the cost pressure New Zealanders face" why did he put out for consultation the proposed 12.1 percent increase in the motor vehicle levy when it was suggested by ACC officials given that ACC's strong financial position makes it clear the increase isn't needed?Hon PEENI HENARE: On behalf of the Minister this is a process that's undertaken every two years so it wasn't something that was sprung on the general public via the New Zealand Government. This is a process that happens every two years. So therefore the consultation scope was very clear from ACC to the members of the public and that consultation process—[Interruption] SPEAKER: Come on I want one person to answer it not three and the member's not being helpful in encouraging them to do it. I don't think anyone was the wiser from all of that and I think we might move on if there's no further supplementary."