Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:9944] 
9.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Why did he announce in this year’s Budget a reduction in new entrant class sizes to no more than 18 students by term two next year when Labour promised before the last election that there would be a reduction ensuring “that by 2008 there are no more than 15 students in a class.”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 The Labour-led Government is committed to moving to a teacher-student staffing ratio of 1:15 for year 1 students. The first phase of this process means that the appropriate property provision will be made available and 702 extra teachers will be in place by term two 2008. It is our intention to fund the second phase in Budget 2008. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister categorically guarantee that there was no shift in the policy whatsoever from Labour’s promise that “by 2008 there are no more than 15 students in a class” even though he went out of his way to announce a totally different teacher -student ratio in the Budget; if there was no change why direct the spotlight on himself by announcing a ratio of 1:18? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: There is no change in the policy of moving to a teacher-student staffing ratio of 1:15 for year 1 students and I have just explained that it will be funded through those two Budgets. But it is an interesting point that the member raises about the policy which originally did state that there would be no more than 15 kids in a year 1 class. The sector pointed out that that of course would give them some difficulty with flexibility. So while we will fund that ratio the way those kids will be allocated to classes by agreement with the sector will be up to them. 
Hon Marian Hobbs 
: What reports has he seen on alternative methods to reduce class sizes? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I have seen a report that between 1991 and 1999 the then National Government increased the number of students per teacher in secondary and composite school classrooms. National currently has no policy to improve ratios so once again we see crocodile tears over a policy that the National Government has not even gotten around to addressing yet. 
Katherine Rich 
: Why has the Minister told the House that there is no shift in his policy when his own official work programme clearly notes a shift in policy and says that by mid-2007 in time for Budget 2007 on the policy of smaller class sizes the Minister has to “reposition issue as smaller class sizes in the junior school rather than a fixed ratio” and “to use speeches to talk about smaller class sizes rather than just the 1:15 ratio”; if there is no shift why go out of his way to reposition it? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: There is no change in the policy of moving to a teacher-student ratio of 1:15 for year 1 students. 
Hon Bill English 
: No one trusts you. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: This year we have funded 702 extra teachers. That will be in place by term two. To the member Bill English on the other side who destroyed the health system I think trust is misplaced in him. 
Katherine Rich 
: How can the Minister tell the House that there is no shift in policy and nothing has changed when in his official work programme it is noted that this objective has been completed through a series of speeches and announcements designed to reposition this issue? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: There is no change in the policy of moving to a teacher-student ratio of 1:15 amongst year 1 students. The first phase of that was funded in this Budget and the next phase will be funded in 2008. 
Katherine Rich 
: If there is no change in the policy why should the Minister go out of his way to “reposition the issue” and go out of his way to announce a totally different ratio from the one he promised at the last election? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I know that the member possibly was not listening before so let me go back to the fact that when we talked through this policy with schools one of the things they did ask for was that instead of a rigid 1:15 class size they wanted the ratio funded and then some flexibility about how they would apply it. That is what we have talked about and that is what the schools have asked for. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: So you changed the promise. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: If there is one person in the House who knows about changing promises it is the person who is intervening now Dr Nick Smith. 
Katherine Rich 
: So while the Minister stands in this House and swears there has been no repositioning of the issue even though it is actually in his work programme is he saying that as a result of consultation with the school sector they have asked for a larger ratio rather than a smaller one hence his movement to a 1:18 ratio from his promise of 1:15? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: No. Let me go through it again. The policy of 1:15 stays for year 1 students. The first phase was implemented during this Budget and the second phase will be implemented during Budget 2008.