Muller ToddTODD MULLER (National—Bay of Plenty): Thank you Mr Chair. I am particularly disappointed in the tenor of the debate over the last five minutes or so because it has illustrated the fact that clearly not enough attention has been taken to the conversations that were short—very very short conversations—that we had as a select committee and the divergence of views that were expressed in that committee from those submitters. What I heard was a view that suggested that if a particular view was put forward in those submissions somehow that didn't have any validity and shouldn't have been given voice and shouldn't actually have any support from the National Party. That again reinforces that broad observation that I made in my first contribution that this is too significant an issue to be rushing through without considered reflection. In particular just reflecting on the comments made by the Minister sitting in the chair the Hon Kiritapu Allan as she stood up and I quote she said This isn't about creating a lack of alignment or a privilege. This was creating parity in law." We have spent quite a long time in debate on this particular point that actually what this bill enables is that for communities who wish to make changes or wish to debate through binding polls particular issues that can happen with the specific exception Minister of the creation of Māori wards. Now I know we are particularly talking about Supplementary Order Paper 6 from Debbie Ngarewa-Packer but those comments are in response to the Minister's view that what we are creating here is and I quote "parity in law". We are not. That is not what this bill does and it is a shame actually that we still have that view proffered by Government Ministers when in fact the bill does quite the opposite. Then when you look at the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that we are debating here at the moment it talks to the fact that this is an issue that deserves considered reflection as a country around how we create the opportunity for greater Māori participation. A particular view is that there should be Māori wards in all regional councils regardless of what the regional council or wider community would suggest. As the Hon Dr Nick Smith—the point he's made is that of course under the current proposed legislation what that means is essentially that gets locked in and over time that would increase and there's no ability of course for the community to have a measured discussion around whether that's appropriate for them. But again it talks when you look at this to the particular perspective that the Māori Party bring and I respect that which has been given voice to already in this debate which is that when you look at issues of participation in democracy it must be founded in their interpretation of what the Treaty means. As we heard at select committee for a number of people that means 50:50 participation. I would be interested in the Minister's view on the merits of this SOP and ensuring that there is always a Māori ward her view on the debate that we've had around whether actually this is the start of a fundamental readjustment of Māori participation in the electoral system and what she thinks that should look like. This SOP suggests that there should be one at least one if not more across all the country. What does she as a Minister think of that view? And I would also like her to think again around her comments in response to the previous speakers that actually this legislation we're debating creates parity when in fact it is very explicit that this now becomes the singular issue that communities of New Zealand in a local government context cannot have a binding poll about. Everything else is; this issue is not. How does that equate to parity in the law? Thank you."