Carter David: Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill — In Committee 
Carter David: Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:650;Page:18611] 
Hon DAVID CARTER (National) 
: 
 I want to pick up on the comment just made by my colleague Chris Tremain. I agree with him that the Climate Change (Emissions Trading and Renewable Preference) Bill is the most far-reaching legislation this Parliament has considered for 20 years. It is therefore the most far-reaching legislation that nearly every member of the House has considered. I do not think that Parliament has done justice to the process of this bill either in the Finance and Expenditure Committee or in the Minister last week tabling close to 800 amendments. 
The reason this legislation is so far-reaching is that the costs that will be imposed on our economy are huge. We know that. The real difficulty is in being able to accurately measure those costs. I looked back through the submissions that were made to the select committee and the documentation we received from officials gave a carbon price starting at $15 a tonne. They acknowledged that it could be $25 a tonne and they gave the odd example of the international carbon price being at $50 a tonne. The Reserve Bank of New Zealand I know has recently done some work and assumed it would be $21 a tonne. But I have just managed to find out that the current price is actually $45 a tonne. With that sort of price per tonne of carbon electricity for household consumers will go up by 20 percent. But the particular area that I am interested in is agriculture and according to the information presented to us at the Finance and Expenditure Committee that price will cause a drop in farmer output prices of around 30 percent. 
R Doug Woolerton 
: No renewables won’t cost a cent. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: Doug Woolerton can laugh about that but if he bothers to go back and dig out the papers that he was presented with at the select committee when he should have been taking part he will see that at $50 a tonne the net effect on national sheep and beef budgets is a drop in profit before tax of 160 percent. That is the figure that was presented by the officials to the select committee. 
R Doug Woolerton 
: They can bring the emissions back and not pay a cent. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: Doug’s interjections are hard to respond to. He does not seem to understand any part of the legislation despite sitting on the select committee. But I tell Mr Woolerton in the last couple of weeks that he has left in this Parliament to listen carefully. If one has put in an emissions trading scheme that reduces the profitability of sheep and beef farmers by around 160 percent they will not— 
R Doug Woolerton 
: They won’t. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: The member now interjects and says “They will not.” The officials supplied these figures to Mr Woolerton at the select committee. He took no active involvement in the select committee. If he had bothered to read his papers he would know that that was the figure that came from the select committee people— 
R Doug Woolerton 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. That is factually incorrect and a person can check the record of the select committee. I was there almost every day—in fact far more than Mr Carter was. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: With due respect that is a debatable point not a point of order. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: As I was saying if Mr Woolerton was there that much and had taken a conscientious involvement in the paperwork presented to him he would know the figure I am quoting came to us from the very officials who advised the select committee. That figure is that at $50 a tonne the average sheep and beef farmer will see his profitability decline by 160 per cent. I will tell Mr Woolerton what that means. It means that the sheep and beef farmers in this country will not survive. They will not survive and if the member thinks the international market for sheep and beef products will dry up then that is another reason why he will not be here for more than another couple of weeks. I say to Mr Woolerton that what will happen is that this production will then occur elsewhere in other countries that have not imposed an emissions trading scheme on agriculture. Mr Woolerton needs to be reminded that no other country in the world is going down this path at the moment—no other country in the world. 
Chris Tremain is absolutely right when he asked the question why we are rushing this legislation through just before the election. It has more to do with Helen Clark’s next job at the United Nations.