Logie JanJAN LOGIE (Green): It is a pleasure to rise on behalf of the Green Party to take a call in the second reading of the Fire and Emergency New Zealand Bill. I know that there is a lot of interest in this piece of legislation but I suspect that many of the people who may have been following the debate on this in the House tonight may be more preoccupied with the news of what is happening in Christchurch at the moment. On that note I do want to offer the Green Party's condolences to David Askin's family—the helicopter pilot who died supporting the emergency efforts in the Port Hills.I want to acknowledge all of those people involved voluntarily and in a paid capacity in our emergency services who put their lives on the line to protect property and people. It is a great tragedy and my heart really does go out to the people of Christchurch. It just feels wrong that they are having to go through another such crisis and disaster. It really just seems too much but it does make this debate all the more poignant and reminds us that what is actually at the heart of this is trying to ensure that our fire and emergency services right across the country are able to respond and that all of those people working in those services in paid and voluntary capacities are well supported to do that work.I would also like to add my words of thanks to Minister Peter Dunne for bringing this bill to the House. You know this is updating legislation that has not been substantially changed since the 1940s and we have had many many changes in our society and in our communities let alone in technology since the 1940s.At the heart of what this bill is about—to completely oversimplify it—is the merging of the urban fire services and the rural fire services which have been operating quite distinctly and have been very much based in their communities. So it is a very significant undertaking and it is one that the Green Party supports.I do also want to thank the chair of the Government Administration Committee the Hon Ruth Dyson who I understand has gone back to her community in the Port Hills to support them there at the moment. She is a very competent chair and sadly I still think her experiences from the earthquakes add a lot to the committee's consideration of legislation such as this bill. But we were definitely aided by the 104 submissions and the 47 oral submissions which came from a very wide range of organisations—I think an unusually wide range of organisations—from district councils to museums insurance companies fire brigades aged-care services farmers forest owners and Air New Zealand as well of course as all of the different fire unions and fire agencies. So I think the committee worked together very sensibly seeking to hear what the concerns were and considering how we may be able to address them in the legislation.This has been mentioned by previous speakers but I will also add that we are waiting to see the resolution of the levy issue in regulation and we did also listen very carefully to the museums and art galleries that raised concerns with us. The idea that museums and art galleries would not be penalised for under-insuring and that that would not be seen as avoidance—I do think that the possible other consequences of that need to be properly considered. There certainly was a call for a levy waiver system for these public institutions which contribute very significantly to our cultural understanding and that is something that I do support. I think it is important that that regulation sets up a transparent easily understood system so that we do not get into having people under-insuring or not insuring or self-insuring just to be able to avoid increasing the costs of entrance to their public institutions to the point where people no longer come. I do not think that would serve any of us or the intent of the legislation.Also I do want to speak a little bit about an aspect of the bill that others have not spoken about so far and that is the treatment of volunteers. Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) has a direct relationship with volunteers. Through this legislation there will be a framework created for that relationship and many New Zealanders—I certainly was not aware before the consideration of this bill that 80 percent of the Fire Service's workforce in this country are volunteers. So it is really really encouraging to see that the bill identifies volunteers as personnel" up front in the legislation because we certainly need to make sure that we are looking after those volunteers who are putting their lives on the line and giving up so much of their time and are sharing their skills for the benefit of our community. It is good. We certainly know that some of those relationships have not been uncomplicated in the past and that there are things to improve on.So clause 34 of the bill enables FENZ to make independent advocacy and support services available so that if somebody has got a dispute and maybe they do not want to go through the United Fire Brigades' Association if they are a volunteer there is actually the ability for there to be an independent advocacy and support service for them. Sometimes when there are paid staff and there are volunteers their interests may not be aligned and sometimes they may be seen to be in conflict so I think that independence will add value and security to the volunteers. It was also encouraging to see that there will be a requirement to consult with volunteers in the development of services. I will note one more concern at this point though and there are not many for us but this is an area where we maintain concern. There has not been a baseline review done of services and this bill and I think the Regulations Review Committee document looked at the cost savings that would come from this merging and estimated that there would be $47 million of savings through this process. But without a baseline review having been done there is the real potential that the organisation will drive to make those savings without first working out what is needed and what services need to be provided for those volunteers and the communities. We are very wary of that and would encourage all those involved to be very careful in that process.I would also like to mention another concern that we have which is about the identified functions and objectives of Fire and Emergency New Zealand because fire investigation is not listed as a specific function. This is a very specialised skill—and it certainly is recognised separately in other jurisdictions overseas—and we are concerned that that may lead to an erosion of the competence of the investigation of fires and the ability to make cases in court when there is a case to be made. Again I think that area should be reconsidered.But all in all there are many things to be pleased with in this bill and again congratulations to all those involved."