7. Question No. 7—Social Development and EmploymentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 7—Social Development and Employment7. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What is the percentage increase if any in the number of people in receipt of jobseeker support for three to five years in consecutive duration when comparing the March 2022 to the September 2017 quarter?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): As the member has been made aware there was a minor administrative error in WPQ 12331. The correct number of people who have been receiving a main benefit for three to five years as at September 2017 was 11955. Of those 6900 received the health and disability exemption and 5058 were considered work-ready. As at the end of March 2022 there were a total of 23001 people receiving jobseeker support for between three to five years. Of those 12948 received the health and disability exemption and 10056 were considered work-ready. The percentage difference is around 92.4 percent and represents 11046 people of which 4998 were work-ready. In Budget 2020 and consecutive Budgets we have invested heavily in work-focused case management and additional front-line staff. We are now seeing record numbers of people moving off benefit and into work. We have come through the pandemic in better shape than Treasury predicted and have been working hard to ensure people on jobseeker are supported into employment.Hon Louise Upston: If the Minister still thinks that COVID-19 is to blame why has the number of people stuck on the jobseeker benefit for three to five years increased by 92 percent when every one of these people would have gone on to the benefit before the pandemic?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: If we keep it in context and reflect on what we've seen over the last couple of years currently we have just over 100000 people on jobseeker benefit. That's 11000 fewer people than were on this time last year. With regards to the increase of people who may have been on benefit for three to five years we saw that trend starting between 2016 and onwards under the previous Government. Part of the reason for that—a big part—was the lack of investment in front-line work-focused case management. We saw that when we came in and we started that investment in 2019.Hon Louise Upston: Why when most industries are suffering from a labour shortage has the number of people on the jobseeker benefit for two to three consecutive years increased by 112 percent or 24000 people under Labour?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: It's really important that we look at the full number of people that are on a benefit. What we are seeing are more exits off benefit into employment than we have seen since electronic records were kept. We're also seeing some very promising results with our front-line staff being able to work effectively with those that come on to benefit getting them into work as quickly as possible. What we know is that long-term welfare dependency is more likely the longer that you are on benefit. What we're doing is investing to work with people as soon as they come on benefit. We're seeing the results and I think that sets us in good stead for the longer-term trajectory.Hon Louise Upston: Can she explain why at a time of record job vacancies and businesses begging for staff more people are stuck long term on the jobseeker benefit under Labour?SPEAKER: Order! I'm going to let the question go but the suffix that is beginning to occur in the member's questions is to cease.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Yesterday we had Estimates and we got to interrogate some of these numbers a little bit more fulsomely. There are some results that are giving me some relief and surely us as a Government and we should feel some relief as a country as well. I think 25 percent of those in the last year who have gone off benefit and into work were on a benefit between one and three years compared to a year ago when it was only 14.7 percent. The investment that we are putting into work-focused case management and into upskilling and training opportunities and into the broader context with regards to employment across Government agencies is paying off and will mean that our people are better placed with the skills that they need to remain in and sustain employment and that's what was not focused on by the previous Government.Hon Louise Upston: Isn't she concerned that the legacy of this Government's six years in office will be thousands more children growing up in benefit-dependent homes and thousands more people consigned to a life of long-term benefit dependency?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: When this pandemic hit Treasury forecast that we would see 487000 New Zealanders on benefit by January 2021. We got to 397000 at the worst and now we are on a trajectory downwards currently at around 345000. We continue to make the investments where they matter and we are absolutely prioritising this as a Government.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order Mr Speaker. I just wanted to wait until the end of that question to come back to the rebuke that you made which I absolutely accept but I would also just point out that if many of the Government's answers both today and on previous days flowed very close to breaches of Speaker's rulings 191/1-3 and have similar party-focused references to them so as a good referee I'm sure you'll be consistent.SPEAKER: Yes. I have been watching that matter really carefully. The member is aware it is a matter for judgment for me and not for a point of order. The other point that I will make is that I'm trying to get a balance between length of answers and these have been I think a bit long but also we had yesterday people who were missing out on supplementary questions basically because the original answers were too narrow. So it's a matter of just trying to get that balance right.