McClay Todd: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
McClay Todd: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 08 November 2012. Volume:685;Page:6434. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
2. 
TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: What steps is the Government taking to support jobs as part of its programme to build a more productive and competitive economy? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 Data today showing 7.3 percent unemployment underscores the importance of the Government’s broad investment programme and policy programme that is supporting jobs building infrastructure and increasing the productive capacity of the economy. This is challenging when the world economy is struggling to gain momentum. Today’s unemployment data has been above market expectation but does not change the Government’s plans to continue to back businesses to make the decision to employ another person invest another dollar and help reduce unemployment. 
Todd McClay 
: How does New Zealand’s unemployment rate compare with other nations’? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: Can I say in the first place that the—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I apologise to the Minister. The member asking the question had a perfect right to ask the question. It was not a provocative question; it sought information. We do not need that level of interjection. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: Can I first say that the unemployment rate is of course too high. We want an economy where it is easier for people who are looking for jobs to find them. New Zealand’s unemployment rate is equal with that of Canada lower than that of the US lower than that of Finland and much lower than the euro area unemployment rate of 11.5 percent. The OECD average unemployment rate is 8 percent. We do face significant head winds as Government and households rein in their spending and increase savings at the same time as dealing with an elevated exchange rate and a sluggish world economy. We are on track for moderate growth in the short to medium term. We will continue to work to ensure that there are the best conditions possible for businesses to employ more people. 
Hon David Parker 
: With 175000 New Zealanders now unemployed and unemployment at the highest rate of 7.3 percent since 1999 when he was Minister of Finance under Jenny Shipley—is it the highest since then? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: I have not checked those facts but I can tell the member one interesting fact. In 1999 there were 150000 people on the unemployment benefit and today at a similar rate of unemployment there are only 50000 people on the unemployment benefit. In respect of these figures one story that does not quite fit is that the household labour force survey today shows an increase in unemployment mainly driven by increases in unemployment in Auckland but the number of people on the unemployment benefit in Auckland is actually dropping. We have yet to find out why both of those things are happening at the same time. 
Hon David Parker 
: Does he believe his Building a Brighter Future plan to create 170000 more jobs is working given that unemployment is 7.3 percent the highest rate in 13 years and the number of unemployed at 175000 is the highest number in 20 years? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: Yes we do believe the plan is working because in the face of a slowing global economy New Zealand continues to create more jobs it has a higher employment rate than Australia and more New Zealanders are in work than it has ever had. For those who are looking for jobs the infrastructure team in Christchurch is on the road around New Zealand trying to fill 1000 places. I invite young New Zealanders in particular to apply for those jobs. 
Todd McClay 
: How is the Government’s investment through the Business Growth Agenda supporting jobs? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The Government is investing itself through the Business Growth Agenda and its wider investment programme. Just to give some examples there are 2000 jobs in the roll-out of ultra-fast broadband there are 1600 jobs in the Transpower grid upgrade there will be 1000 jobs at the peak of the Wiri prison construction there are expected to be 1300 jobs at the peak of the horizontal infrastructure rebuild in Christchurch and there are an estimated 1000 jobs over the next 4 years on the Waterview motorway. This is employment the Government is providing directly through its extensive infrastructure investment programme. 
Hon David Parker 
: Does he agree that with long-term unemployment up 12.5 percent in the year to September 2012 long-term unemployment is the biggest cause of welfare dependency in New Zealand? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: No I do not. It is one cause but as the Government’s welfare reform process has illustrated there are large groups of people in long-term welfare dependency such as sickness beneficiaries— 
Hon David Parker 
: They’ve gone up under this Government. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: No actually they went up strongly under the Labour Government even when the economy was growing fast. Despite the patchy growth of this recovery those numbers on benefits are stable or dropping. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In response to an earlier supplementary question the Minister said that he could not remember the unemployment rate in 1999— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Order! Order! There is not remotely a point of order emerging from this. There was nothing to do with the proceedings of the House. It seems the Minister wants to either add information or dispute information. I am prepared to accept I am wrong and I will give the member a chance but he must indicate very quickly what the issue of order is. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: With respect the Minister seems to have contradicted his own memory and therefore may have misled the House— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Order! That is not a point of order. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! It is nothing to do with the procedures of the House. The member is trying to make a political point and that is not a point of order. 
Hon David Parker 
: Which does he think is the worst indictment of his Government: the abject failure to meet his target of 170000 more jobs the record 175000 unemployed or the record 170000 people who have left to go to Australia since he promised he would reduce the number? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: None of those. Some indications of some of those—[ 
Interruption 
] One indication of—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I guess if members ask the question I imagine they want to hear the answer. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: I think they think the one who shouts the loudest will get David Shearer’s job. But in the end they are all just Davids. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I have called on the Opposition not to interject so much and the Minister is now getting provocative. That ain’t going to help. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The answer to the member’s question is none but for the member’s benefit some indications of success are that the number of people on benefits was 354000 in January 2010 and it is currently 320000—a significant drop. The number of people on the unemployment benefit was— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister of Finance was asked which was the worst indicator. He said none of the three that he was given was and now he has gone straight off the question and is talking about something else. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I believe the Minister was asked not which was the worst but which would he consider was his best achievement I think— 
Hon Members 
: No. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Oh it was the worst achievement I apologise—the worst achievement. The Minister is perfectly entitled to say: “None of the above.” but he should probably indicate if the—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! He should probably if he says: “None of the above.” indicate which is his worst achievement. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: OK. Well the worst indicator is that the number of people on benefits has dropped from 354000 in January 2010 to 320000 in September 2012. 
Hon David Parker 
: If the Government’s record of 175000 unemployed is not its worst indicator if the record 170000 people leaving for Australia is not its worst indicator and if its failure to achieve its target of 170000 new jobs is not its worst indicator what is its worst indicator? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: As I have said we believe that the indicator where we need to strive much harder to achieve more is an increase in the number of jobs. There are not enough jobs out there for the people who are looking for them but it is pleasing to note we are making progress on the decrease in the number of people who are unemployed. For instance the number on the unemployment benefit in January 2010 was 68000— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! There was a very simple question asked and I think the Minister did answer that and because it was such a simple question that should be the end of the answer. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know on occasion I have criticised you for assisting Ministers by explaining to the House but on this occasion I do not think anyone on this side heard the Minister indicate what he thought the worst indicator was. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I think he has— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: So he could not have answered it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The Minister did. He indicated that the worst indicator was the issue of job availability. He indicated that it caused the Government the most concern and that was his interpretation of what the worst indicator was from the Government’s perspective. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I seek leave to table the Statistics New Zealand unemployment data from 1998-99 which was the last time the unemployment rate was as high as it is today at 7.3 percent. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The data was compiled by? 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: The department of statistics. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there—[ 
Interruption 
] Well leave is sought to table it. Is there any objection? There is objection. Apparently it is a public document. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I seek leave to table the Statistics New Zealand unemployment figures for 2006-07 showing that at 3.4 percent under the previous Government— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Have these figures been figures that are released in the Statistics New Zealand release recently? 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Clearly they are not available to the Minister of Finance— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That is a straight abuse of the point of order process. That is a straight abuse because it is using the point of order process to try to put down another member of the House and that is not on—not on. I politely— 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I am on my feet. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! And there will not be interjections. I politely inquired whether the information the member was seeking leave to table was information that was recently released by the statistics department. If it is information that can only be found through looking back over past series I am prepared to put the leave to the House. If it is information that has been released today or in the last couple of days then I am not prepared to waste the time of the House. I politely inquired that of the member—is this information information that was compiled by someone else or was it was included in releases today? 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I do not wish to detain yourself or the House and I appreciate the Speaker’s courtesy. Mr Speaker the information was historical and the issue did arise because the Minister of Finance— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That is all I asked—[ 
Interruption 
] No no that is not a valid point of order. The issue is simply the member seeking leave to table a document. He has told me this information is not readily available. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.