Newman Muriel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Newman Muriel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:627;Page:22038] 
6.  
Dr MURIEL NEWMAN (Deputy Leader—ACT) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development and Employment 
: As the highest debt owed by a recipient of the unemployment benefit at the end of May was $201058.21 and this debt is being repaid at $10 a week does he accept that at this rate the debt will be paid off in around 386 years in the year 2391? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
: 
 No. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: Does the Minister believe it is satisfactory that under the Labour Government there is also a sickness beneficiary who defrauded the taxpayer of $159000 a domestic purposes beneficiary who defrauded the taxpayer of $183000 and an invalids beneficiary who defrauded the taxpayer of $222000; and with each fraudster repaying his or her debt at only a few dollars a week is the Minister happy that the signal his Government is sending out is that crime does pay and that welfare beneficiaries need not be concerned about engaging in wholesale welfare fraud? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The signal that this Government sends out is that it has a zero tolerance approach to fraud by staff or by clients. In answer to the member’s question I say that in the first case she raised all but $1000 of that debt was gained through fraud when the client was a domestic purposes beneficiary in 1988. Following an investigation that client was prosecuted and went to prison. The current level of debt repayment is $20 a week which is based upon the person’s ability to pay. How long that person will take to pay the debt will depend of course on future earnings because repayment is always based on that. 
Georgina Beyer 
: Can the Minister enlighten the primary questioner and the House as to what policies this Government has in place to address benefit fraud and debt? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: All cases of deliberate fraud are prosecuted. It is a disappointing fact that despite best efforts some people do manage to defraud the system. To ensure that all debts are recovered weekly repayments are calculated as appropriate to each client’s present financial circumstances at a level at which the client can afford to repay without incurring family hardship. Case managers work individually with clients to continually review the repayments as the clients’ circumstances change. The focus on moving people into sustainable employment ensures that if they are in employment and earning a higher wage they pay back faster. This approach has meant that the proportion of beneficiary debtors repaying their debts has increased significantly with 96 percent of debtors on a benefit now repaying their debts. That did not happen under the Government that the ACT party supported. 
Judith Collins 
: Why does the Minister continue to refuse to acknowledge the real abuse of the welfare system and what a serious problem it is by letting these sorts of fraudulent debts rack up and by ignoring his own ministry’s indication that the recent growth in sickness and invalids benefits is coming in fact from transfers from within the benefit system indicating even more fraud? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I repeat that this Government has taken a very strong approach to fraud. We now have a significant increase from the level under the previous Government in the number of debtors who are repaying their debt. The statement that people are transferring to the sickness benefit and invalids benefit is utterly stupid and wrong. 
Georgina Beyer 
: What reports has the Minister seen on alternative approaches to debt recovery? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I have seen a report that claims to have “a penalty system that ensures benefit crime … is treated with the seriousness it deserves”. Despite that claim in a media release however there is no mention whatsoever of this penalty system in ACT’s social welfare policy. In other words ACT offers lots of complaints but as usual no solutions. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: When the Government was considering its “soft on welfare fraud” policy did it give any consideration to the fact that ordinary taxpayers who have never been on welfare now feel like suckers taxed to the hilt to let fraudsters steal enough for a house when if ordinary taxpayers are a day late in paying their GST or child support they get hit hard with penal rates; or does the Minister’s Government not care? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I would say to taxpayers that under this Government we now have 96 percent of these debtors paying back money. That was not the case when the Government that that member supported was in power. I also say to taxpayers that under this Government we have returned $3.3 billion of welfare spending to Treasury so that it can be spent elsewhere on their needs. 
Question time interrupted.