Smith DamienDAMIEN SMITH (ACT): Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the third reading tonight. The ACT Party favours competition and efficiencies in all charges and fees with regards to assisting small business. Just to clear up on our friends with American Express it is a different network and it has a substantially different business model to some of the other players that are right there. But my address tonight is more about the largesse around the Commerce Commission and where this is a classic example of how Government intervention actually takes away some of the value that's supposedly being created in savings and I'll touch on that later.But given that the Commerce Commission has the ability to designate schemes I'd say—those that are already in the bill—it would be good to get a stronger commitment from them that they will actually monitor the costs of the unregulated system and will be beneficial for merchants and customers. And this is one of the important things for Governments to ensure that they're active in ensuring a level playing field while actually delivering these savings. And if you crunch the numbers it does look like we have Peter robbing Paul where we've got a $15 million business empire created again at the Commerce Commission to collect $75 million. And that is even questionable whether that $75 million will actually get to the merchants or the consumers if you divide it by the number of transactions that are occurring electronically and digitally in New Zealand.The Government considers that a targeted regime is the way forward. The bill introduces a role for the Commerce Commission that allows it to not only build an empire like the raw milk pricing team it's got or the telecommunications team that it's got but it just adds to the largesse of that administration structure. I think Barbara Edmonds and I and Minister Clark could sit down every six months and actually set these designations and charges that would go out into the marketplace and that would be the end of it as opposed to building a quagmire. One of the things that the ACT Party truly believes in is that after two years these savings should be analysed and the department's role should be assessed to see if it's actually delivering the value for money that it said it would and that the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment said it would in its initial analysis. To me it sounds like good politics. We're all for saving money for the small-business owner. But again we have seen no evidence that it's actually going to get there and that it's actually going to get through to consumers and help them.So the Government is giving the Commerce Commission again a broad range of powers. We hope the Commerce Commission should be sensible and consumer impacts around innovation and competition and new products won't be hampered by what the Commerce Commission will do and that it will be ready for a new set of products and suites to come through. One of the things we have to really recognise is that the more sophisticated these products become the more that they do have to charge and that they will be more value-added products in the New Zealand market. And it is a bit of a test bed for testing what then eventually goes on around the world.The Government's made the decision to empower the Commerce Commission. It's now got to stand by and deliver these savings. The reduction in interchange fees and merchant services fees allows us to actually have some benchmarks which will show us how those suite of powers have worked and how they have recommended to the Minister how they're going go about their business. The Commerce Commission will be able to determine and issue directives regimes access for new participants. And we think it's going from as Kirk Hope said at BusinessNZ what should have been a very light-touch mechanism to something now that's really heavy touch and brings into question the actual efficiencies that were marketed and promoted by the Labour Party in its manifesto. So we are not convinced.Overall the package considers selling services in the marketplace where you've got retail sales of $100 billion so a 20 percent reduction in credit card interchange fees is equating to the figure that the Minister's promoting. The biggest risk here is that the model relies on providing the Commerce Commission with tools but the practical applications of these powers have not been ascertained and the legislation needs clearer objectives. We think to reduce systemic risk the Financial Markets Authority should have a look at this after two years.In terms of the guaranteed $74 million we believe it'll get stuck in the legal system and not get to business and consumers in the quantums that are discussed. We believe the administration fees—well if you divide that $74 million by 15 you're already taking away 15 20 percent of the benefit just by setting up a Government department. So what is that all about? This is the problem with these types of laws right? Giving the powers to the Commerce Commission does not reflect actual savings and so it's disingenuous to actually say that the consumers and merchants are going to get these.So we believe we need a bill that's fit for purpose. Elements of the bill in terms of charges are acceptable but the actual role of the Commerce Commission is not acceptable. And if you want to save money in the marketplace in New Zealand with regards to charges you have to take in a holistic ability which has been disturbed by the Government's handling of the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act (CCCFA) that people use these charging services for cash flow for their businesses as well. Right? So sometimes they're really willing to take this payment because that helps them run their business day to day and so as long as they're getting the benefits and as long as the Commerce Commission isn't stopping that—but we know with even getting a credit card now it's extremely difficult under the CCCFA.So ACT will be opposing this bill not because of the savings but because of the Commerce Commission's undefined role inside it. Thank you.