4. Social Development Ministry—Security of Client DataCARMEL SEPULONI (Labour—Kelston) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentSocial Development Ministry—Security of Client Data4. CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour—Kelston) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by her statement about the Privacy Commissioner that we will listen to any recommendations that he has to make" about feedback on her Government's approach to private client data collection from social services?Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development): Yes.Carmel Sepuloni: How can she say she is listening when this morning on Radio New Zealand she said "There is no proof that people will not seek help if they have to give their name." despite the Privacy Commissioner clearly stating data sharing "could impede vulnerable people's access to much needed services and worsen already difficult circumstances." and one organisation reporting that not one of the 17 male survivors of sexual abuse they are working with would seek support if they knew the data was going to be shared?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Because the Privacy Commissioner's comment was "could" and in my discussions with the Privacy Commissioner he did not have any proof that people would not seek help; it is an assumption that they will not seek help.Carmel Sepuloni: How can she expect New Zealanders to have confidence in her ministry's client data-sharing approach when 2 days ago her IT portal for storing this data had to be shut down because it was compromised she said this morning she had no confidence in the system and her ministry has an abysmal track record for breaches of private client information?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Firstly I would say that the Ministry for Social Development deals with over a million New Zealanders and does not have an appalling track record. That is not to say it has not had breaches but it has a very good record of protecting over a million New Zealanders' information. Secondly I would say to that member: the reason I shut the portal down was that I am not confident in it and therefore no New Zealander can be confident in it.Carmel Sepuloni: Does she really think she has the confidence of social service providers and vulnerable people seeking support from these social services given the data security breach and the findings of the Privacy Commissioner that have come to light in the past 72 hours?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I think it is very dangerous to link the two. First of all the data collection will continue but there will be no information uploaded until I am convinced and the Privacy Commissioner is convinced that we have a system that is secure. That is the responsible thing to do. However when we talk about vulnerable New Zealanders what they want is to be able to get access to the services that the taxpayer funds on their behalf. That is why we need the client data: to ensure that all the vulnerable New Zealand families and children are accessing the services that the Government is providing.Carmel Sepuloni: Should not the Minister have made sure that the system for storing that information was secure before she pushed ahead with her Government's data collection and sharing agenda?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I have said in this House and I have said outside this House that we will not be uploading any data until I can be assured and I can assure New Zealanders that the system that collects and hold the data is secure.Carmel Sepuloni: Will she admit that the Government's social investment approach was never about investing in people but about saving money in the short term by underfunding social services and putting up barriers to people accessing support and will she acknowledge that this approach has long-term cost repercussions?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Well far be it from that member to ever describe social investment because it is quite the reverse. The whole social investment approach is by investing earlier and more effectively so that you get better long-term outcomes for people. That always costs more."