4. Question No. 4—FinanceHon AMY ADAMS (National—Selwyn) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 4—Finance4. Hon AMY ADAMS (National—Selwyn) to the Minister of Finance: Does he accept that clause 3.27 of the Cabinet Manual states he is individually accountable for Treasury's actions in relation to the early release of Budget 2019 information and at what specific time did Treasury first receive advice from the GCSB relating to the use of the term hack"?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): I disagree with the member's characterisation of clause 3.27 of the Cabinet Manual. In answer to the second part of the question that is a matter that is part of the State Services Commissioner's investigation that is currently under way and I do not believe that it is in the public interest to comment further on those matters.Hon Amy Adams: Why did Treasury allege its website was systematically and deliberately hacked in an 8 p.m. press statement on Tuesday when there is already information in the public domain that Treasury had been advised by the GCSB approximately two hours before that at 6 p.m. that the website had not been compromised and there was no hack?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I am not aware of the facts the member states there but regardless they are the subject of the State Services Commission (SSC) inquiry.Hon Amy Adams: What exactly did the Secretary to the Treasury tell the Minister the GCSB advice had been on this matter when the Minister met with the secretary prior to releasing his 8.18 p.m. statement?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again I'm not going to go into the detail of those matters today because they are the subject of the inquiry. What I can do is quote from Treasury's media statement on Tuesday night where they said "The Treasury has referred the matter to the police on the advice of the National Cyber Security Centre".Hon Amy Adams: Why does he think it is good enough to refuse to answer questions in this House as to the advice Treasury gave him when he has told the public and this House repeatedly that he relied entirely on that advice before making his statement and now he won't tell us what it was?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Because the State Services Commission is undertaking an investigation which the Opposition called for. Now that that investigation is under way it is not appropriate for me as a Minister to speculate further on those matters. I am sure that once the investigation is over I'll have the opportunity to say a lot more.Hon Amy Adams: What steps did he or his office take to ensure the Treasury secretary was aware of the GCSB advice that there had been no hacking before the secretary's Wednesday morning television appearances?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again we are in the middle of matters that are part of the investigation. It is not in the public interest for me to comment on those—an investigation that the Opposition asked to be undertaken and I would hope that they would respect an investigation like that. A faint hope it appears.Hon Amy Adams: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My point of order is that we traversed these matters in some detail yesterday around the extent of the State Services Commission investigation—that it is explicitly not looking into the actions of Ministers. This question was very specifically about what the Minister or his office had done not what the officials had done. It is that same area we traversed yesterday and I would ask the Minister to answer the question because it explicitly is not part of the SSC investigation.SPEAKER: Well I disagree because my view is that the breadth of the inquiry that is ongoing does in fact cover the Minister's office.Hon Amy Adams: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Could the Minister then not be directed to address the question in respect of his actions if that is your ruling in respect of staff?SPEAKER: The short answer is no because what we'd get to is what I indicated before. What the Minister did mightn't be covered but the receiver of the information if it's anyone other than a Minister and the giver of the information to the Minister are both covered if they're not Ministers.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister as to whether it's possible that his department's mistake was not to look for the obvious culprit in the first place?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again I'll leave those matters to other people to investigate but the one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that for the period of time which seems to be concerning the Opposition so much—Wednesday last week—there was a person who could have cleared the whole thing up and that person was Simon Bridges and he didn't do it.Hon Amy Adams: Why did he permit the chief executive of the agency that he is responsible for to state publicly on Wednesday morning that the Treasury system had been hacked that it had been attacked and further that the material accessed was never on the Treasury website when all of those statements are now known to be patently incorrect?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I reject the premise of that member's question.Hon Amy Adams: Of course you do; how convenient! Dodged.Hon Simon Bridges: That's right.SPEAKER: Order! Order! Both of you.Hon Amy Adams: It's a joke.SPEAKER: Order! Amy Adams will stand up withdraw and apologise.Hon Amy Adams: I withdraw and apologise."