Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeGoff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 06 June 2013. Volume:690;Page:10847. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]2.Hon PHIL GOFF (Labour—Mt Roskill) to theMinister of State Services: What responsibility does he or his Government take for 73 percent of public sector agencies not having formal security standards and procedures to protect private information about New Zealanders as the report yesterday to the State Services Commissioner shows?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of State Services): We are taking responsibility. Successive Governments have not ensured that public sector agencieshave focused on technology or privacy as a priority and the figure the member quotes is a reflection of that. We are changing that. As laid out in the Cabinet papers and press conference yesterday the Government has commissioned an extensive work programme to address this long-term problem. It is under this Government that we have increased the powers of the Government Chief Information Officer by giving him a leadership role across the State sector and significantly increasing the resourcing of the Government Chief Information Officer.Hon Phil Goff: Why does the Prime Minister continue to deny that there are systemic problems with regard to the protection of people’s privacy in public sector agencies when this KPMG report explicitly shows a lack of good security and privacy practice right across the State sector and when the Privacy Commissioner Marie Shroff is adamant that privacy breaches absolutely reflect systemic problems?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I would refer the member to the Government Chief Information Officer’s interview on Radio New Zealand this morning when he was saying that a systemic problem is when the system actually is not working. That is not the case we have now.Hon Phil Goff: Was the Government employee the Government Chief Information Officer as accurate in that comment as he was about New Zealanders having trust and confidence in the Government’s ability to protect their personal details when Colmar Brunton said 60 percent of New Zealanders have no trust in the Government to do that?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: Well I would point out that this is a member who constantly seeks to access Defence Force information—Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Your attention has been distracted. I asked a question of the Minister. He is not answering the question; he is attacking me.Mr SPEAKER: Could the Minister just address the question.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: The member’s question was about confidence in the security of information and I would point out that this is a member who constantly seeks—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can the Minister please just address the question that was asked.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I do not agree with his assertions.Hon Phil Goff: How do privacy breaches affecting over 120000 individual New Zealanders in the last 2 years alone not constitute a systemic problem?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: Well as I said I do not agree with the assertions he is making around this. There is work to be done around privacy and the Government has a very clear programme of work under way to address these issues. But I might note that nothing happened during the term of the last Labour Government in this regard.Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question related to 120000 personal breaches of information in the last 2 years. I did not ask him about 4 years ago 6 years ago or 10 years ago. Can I get him to focus on those breaches over the last 2 years.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member asked whether that then constitutes systemic failure and the Minister said he does not agree with that.Hon Phil Goff: Why should any New Zealander feel confident that Government agencies are able to protect private details about them when the Government Chief Information Officer has warned that the reason that only 12 agencies were identified as having serious security weaknesses was that the others did not even have the reporting processes that would enable them to know whether or not they had a problem?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: The reason they should feel confident is that as we described yesterday we have laid out a very clear programme of work to address these issues. We are strengthening up the mandate of the Government Chief Information Officer and we are going to make sure that public sector chief executives are very focused on IT security and management.Hon Phil Goff: Is the lack of comprehensive—[Interruption] If Mr Banks would stop interjecting—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! Would the member please start his question again.Hon Phil Goff: Is the lack of comprehensive security systems protecting privacy compounded by a lack of integrity at the top of the system which led former National Party president Michelle Boag to state in relation to Judith Collins: “When you can’t send a communication to a Government Minister without fearing that the privacy of that communication is going to be threatened that’s very … dangerous.”?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: What I can say regarding privacy of communications is that that member was sent details of a dead soldier which he then distributed—Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: That is not a helpful answer. It was a very political question which I accept. I ask the Minister to make an attempt to address it.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is a point of order and it will be heard in silence.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: There is a well-established precedent here that when you ask a political question especially one attacking a political colleague you will get back as good as you give. That is the firmly established practice. So if you want to change that you should make a new ruling.Mr SPEAKER: I am not proposing to change that. [Interruption] Order! I am not proposing to change that. I am asking the Minister to please address the question.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: This member talks about the leaking of communications—Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You do not answer a question by starting with an attack on the questioner.Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member Mr Goff wants to hear an answer then he will hear the answer. If he does not now want an answer we will move on.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: This member raised points about the leaking of confidential information and indeed that often is a problem across the public sector. I would point out that the member’s form with regard to using illegal channels to access Defence Force information and furthermore leaking the details of a deceased soldier—Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption] I did call for a point of order and Gerry Brownlee who is Leader of the House continues to interject during it.Mr SPEAKER: We are still waiting to hear the point of order.Hon Phil Goff: Well I will give it when you bring the House to order because that is what the Standing Orders require of you.Mr SPEAKER: If the member wants to make his point of order he will make it immediately otherwise I am moving to the next question.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is a Standing Order which until now has been enforced that points of order are meant to be heard in silence. That was the point that Mr Goff was making and it was a fair point. I would ask that you respect his point of order.Mr SPEAKER: I called the member to make his point of order if he wanted to do so.Hon Phil Goff: I take offence at the comment made by the Minister which is quite untrue. I never leaked the details relating to the privacy of any dead soldier. I take offence at that and I ask him to withdraw and apologise for making it.Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member has taken offence then would the Minister please stand withdraw and apologise because the member has taken offence.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: No the member will please—Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I withdraw and apologise.Mr SPEAKER: Thank you.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect you invited Mr Goff to make his point of order and throughout that point of order Mr Banks constantly interjected and again you did nothing.Mr SPEAKER: I did not hear the interjection. [Interruption] Order!Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Could I suggest maybe the technicians need to look at the sound system because with respect it appears quite genuinely that there is a sound problem. You appear to be able to hear everything on this side of the House but nothing on that side.Mr SPEAKER: If the member continues to make that sort of point of order he will be leaving the Chamber.Hon John Banks: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. During the narrative the member over there the Very Reverend Dr Clark made a disgraceful across-the-House abuse at my bench mate which was insulting and demeaning to the whole of Parliament. Could you drag him back in and get him to withdraw and apologise.Mr SPEAKER: I am looking for the member. He is not here so I cannot drag him back in.Iain Lees-Galloway: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is getting to the stage where we are having points of order that are now frivolous. If it is a serious point of order I will hear it. But if I conclude it is a frivolous one then I will be asking any member who raises a frivolous point of order to leave the Chamber. Does the member wish to continue?Iain Lees-Galloway: The Minister Jonathan Coleman quite clearly called a member on this side of the House a coward. That is well outside of the Standing Orders and I expect him to withdraw and apologise for that comment.Mr SPEAKER: Again I did not hear it but if the Hon Jonathan Coleman did do that—Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the Minister did yell across the House calling someone a coward he will stand withdraw and apologise.Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman: I am not going to apologise if you are not going to give me the chance to explain what went on. I am sorry. I will leave the Chamber.Mr SPEAKER: The member will leave the Chamber.Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman withdrew from the Chamber.Mr SPEAKER: Before I call question No. 3 I can advise that it will be asked on behalf of Barbara Stewart by the Labour Party.