Heatley Phil: Electricity and Gas Industries Bill — In Committee 
Heatley Phil: Electricity and Gas Industries Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15848] 
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
: 
 Perhaps I can help Mr Hide with regard to Marion Hobbs’ inability or unwillingness to answer the question. It is simply that she does not understand the question. She was asked whether she believed in an independent Commerce Commission but she does not understand what an “independent” Commerce Commission means or the significance of that. I could spend the next 4 minutes explaining to her very briefly what the Commerce Commission does and Marion Hobbs could go away knowledgable about it. However in 10 months’ time Mark Blumsky might very well be sitting in Marion Hobbs’ seat so it would be a waste of time telling her as she sits here reading her  
New Idea 
 magazine what the Commerce Commission does. 
We in the National Party believe that the Commerce Commission should be independent. My understanding is that the ACT party certainly believes that the commission should be independent. New Zealand First believes that it should be independent and I think that even the Greens believe that it should be independent and free from ministerial interference. Whether Marion Hobbs believes it I am afraid that tonight the Committee will never know. 
I would like to address another issue to do with ministerial interference which relates to new section 57DF “Ministerial powers” inserted by clause 31. It states that the Minister of Energy may not set objectives and outcomes under the Electricity Act that amount to a direction to the Electricity Commission on matters relating to its jurisdiction. The Minister may not act in a way that gives direction to the Electricity Commission. 
However the Commerce Committee has already received submission after submission expressing concern about ministerial interference. In fact we had a lovely submission from Simon Carlaw of Business New Zealand Steve Barrett of Contact Energy Federated Farmers the Electricity Networks Association three State-owned enterprises—Mighty River Power Genesis Energy and Meridian Energy—Powerco TrustPower and Vector. All of them were concerned about ministerial interference. They stated: “In addition to the competing and irreconcilable objectives the bill provides for an extraordinarily high level of ministerial intervention. These provisions are incompatible with a regulatory institution and are in stark contrast to the independent processes which are supposed to be associated with the Commerce Commission.” That was their concern about ministerial intervention and interference. 
Do members know what the fallout will be from their concern about ministerial interference? Those companies when it comes to generation or to investment in lines to transmit electricity will lower their risk because they know it is very risky to be in a business that can be interfered with by the political whims of the Beehive. To lower their risk they will do one thing and one thing only—that is they will restrict investment. There will not be investment in generation. That is what Genesis Energy says what Meridian Energy says and what every other State-owned enterprise says that this Government has its fingers on. Those companies will not be investing in generation lines companies will not invest in upgrading lines and retail companies will not invest in services to their customers simply because by investing they expand their risk. They do not want to expand their risk in situations where the Minister can interfere with their businesses.