Penk ChrisCHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi) (remote): [Audio missing]—the bill is of course highly relevant to this—CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): Can I just—excuse me. Order! Can you just start again because we missed the first bit—sorry. CHRIS PENK: Thank you very much. I don't know whether that was a connection issue or what but thank you for allowing me the chance to engage again on this the first clause of the COVID-19 Response (Courts Safety) Legislation Bill and I welcome the opportunity to engage with the Minister in the chair tonight albeit remotely in my case. The title of the bill is indicative I think of the attitude of the Government towards the court system as it pertains to COVID-19 response in a couple of key ways. I do want to highlight that in a way that the title of the bill is apt but actually a serious piece of the puzzle is missing and it's in relation to the fact that we are talking about court safety but not court efficiency. The phrase (Court Safety)" is in the title of course. That's within brackets after "COVID-19 Response" and it indicates a desire on the part of the Government—quite rightly of course—to ensure a court system that is safe for its participants. The public health perspective is obvious. COVID-19 brings with it serious challenges from that point of view and it's right of course that the Government takes into account those and commits as best it can for the safety and of course I use the word "Government" in its broadest sense. That's the different branches of the Government so of course the judiciary is part of that. The Government of the day as represented by the Minister of Justice in this case is looking to make the courts more safe but of course there should be a dual purpose in all of these COVID-19 response types of bills which acknowledges the need for not only safety but also efficiency. If that seems as though it's an emphasis that's misplaced I suppose it would be an easy and obvious criticism but a misplaced one in itself if there were criticism that we should be considering efficiency in the same breath as safety. The reality is we have a court system that is hopelessly slow. It's outdated in ways that my colleague and friend the Hon Paul Goldsmith has described. The situation has considerably worsened over the last several years and so for any legislation to come before this House affecting the operation of the court system and not to take seriously and—as reflected in the title—not to include that twin imperative of efficiency as well as safety I'm afraid is an indictment on the Government's approach. My question to the Minister obviously will be seeking a response to that and I will proceed to the second point that I did want to make in relation to clause 1 the title clause. It's in relation to the lack of acknowledgment of the tribunals that we have in this country. We have a court system often referred to as such—sometimes "the judicial branch of Government" is the way we refer to it—but of course we have a huge network of tribunals authorities and the like in this country. They've been woefully neglected by the Government in general terms and certainly in response to COVID-19 there's been little or nothing that has been done to make them more efficient and until recently more safe either. So the Government's lack of attention and care in regard to the tribunals and authorities and the like in this country that perform such important roles within our justice system sadly is reflected in the courts but not the courts and tribunal moniker for this legislation. So I would welcome the Minister's explanation as to why he didn't see fit to acknowledge and include their important role in our system. Hon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Justice): We are debating the title clause and so I thank the member for making a reference to it in his contribution. As with safety goes efficiency. If there were disruptions abounding because of the lack of safety measures being taken in our courtrooms then you would get the kind of disruptions that the judiciary and the Minister of Justice would not like to see because of the interruption to the safe and efficient operation of the courts. So I think I will leave that point at that."