Cosgrove Clayton: General Debate 
Cosgrove Clayton: General Debate 
[Volume:621;Page:16548] 
CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
: 
 At least that was a better speech than Don Brash’s. Dr Brash did not know that the situation had changed so he stuck to the script and could not even alter his supplementary questions. Then Mr Hide’s twin Mr Brownlee got up. All I will say to Mr Brownlee is that John Tamihere stood in this House and admitted what he had done wrong. I recall that member in a glass house throwing stones—or in Mr Brownlee’s case he should not throw people down stairs. I remember that member defending the case. I would have thought it would be pretty cut and dried when one biffs a senior citizen down the stairs and puts the boot in. One just fronts up and says: “Hey mea culpa I did it.” But oh no he spent a few bits of brass defending that case. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I want to point out to the House that Mr Clayton Cosgrove has just shown himself to be extremely reckless with the truth. I would accuse him of being a liar but I cannot. My point of order is this. I made a personal statement about this matter— 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Well challenge it. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Mr Cosgrove is running close to leaving the Chamber but I will leave him there. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: —and I presented the absolute facts to the House. I understood that when a member does present the facts those points that are included in that personal statement almost set the bounds for how that matter is referred to in the future. I want to tell Mr Cosgrove and his colleagues that if they want to open up Mr Tamihere to a bit more allegation he should carry on with his speech. 
Stephen Franks 
: I would ask you despite the slightly inflammatory end to that point of order to give it careful consideration. Because a succession of Chairs in this Chamber have allowed that member to continue to refer to events about which Mr Hide made a personal explanation in terms that directly contradict his explanation and I do think it is time that the man in question was ordered out next time he does it. 
Hon Mark Burton 
: I simply refer both members and other members of the House to the content of the speeches that they themselves have made today in relation to the personal statement made in this House today before yet again casting stones in a glass house. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I do not need any more assistance. A member’s word will be taken in this House. I have been conscious of a number of members referring to John Tamihere. But I think most of them were very careful not to show in any way that they do not accept what he said. In this case Mr Cosgrove was doubting and embellishing matters relating to Gerry Brownlee. No more of that. 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I want to talk about credibility and integrity and I want to make some comparisons. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Oh yeah! 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: If I were Mr Smith I would not start. I want to talk about credibility morals and commitment. Let us line up Mr Tamihere who stood in the House and for the first time had the opportunity to present some facts here. Now the evidence is out. 
Dr Brash made a very interesting statement in his contribution to the snap debate. He said that the Government was out of step with ordinary New Zealanders in the way it had dealt with the issue. Well there is a real problem with the people who have thrown mud as Dr Brash and Mr Hide have. The people have spoken and 82 percent have said that these are very very serious allegations and they should be examined. The Government has met that request with a high-level inquiry. Let us not forget that it was Mr Tamihere who referred some days ago—before the trust did—the allegations on the Paragon report so wildly thrown around this Chamber and he himself referred them to the Serious Fraud Office. Eighty-two percent of New Zealanders have said: “Let’s examine it. We want a high-level inquiry but we are holding judgment.” I tell Dr Brash Mr Brownlee Mr Smith over there and Mr Hide that the problem they have is they want to execute a person before the facts are examined. The problem with that of course is that those Opposition parties are out of step with 82 percent of New Zealanders. I tell members that I will stand by John Tamihere and I would be proud to have him in my electorate before I would stand in that huge shadow cast by Mr Brownlee and his twin Mr Hide. Because if one looks at the commitments and achievements in business with the trust—[ 
Interruption 
] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich) 
: No. 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: It is OK let him go I love it. I relish it because he makes a fool of himself—bring him on! I say this: look at the achievements of John Tamihere in that trust—12 employees half a million bucks turnover; he took that to 200 staff and 12 million bucks turnover a year. Name me a couple of members or the two in the front row especially the deputy leader of the Opposition or Mr Hide for that matter—we know from his track record in gilt-edged securities he could not put a deal together if he tried—name me their achievements. One should line up those achievements and Mr Tamihere’s record with legislation in this place against Mr Hide whom a newspaper referred to as the “human wrecking-ball”. Mr Hide’s achievements of course are to tear down smear and throw mud. But he does not like it of course when members raise issues about him. 
I have never ever and I will not challenge the member’s word. That would be out of order. I have spoken about matters concerning the Fiji scam without challenging his statement. I have simply asked him to come clean on questions that of course he refuses to answer. To this day he refuses to answer why it was he—the perk-buster—who did nothing when he came back from that scam conference to go after the people who ripped off millions of dollars from hundreds of New Zealanders. He will not answer who paid his airfares who set up the invitation even after the Serious Fraud Office and the Securities Commission made him very much aware that it was a scam. But of course the perk-buster calls for accountability everywhere except in his own personal circumstances. 
So I say to Mr Hide: enjoy the media. I say to Mr Brownlee: enjoy the roll on this one. I believe that Mr Tamihere will come through this and then Mr Hide will reap the whirlwind from the people because the people are fair-minded. It says a lot about Kiwis when they say: “We will give you a fair go; we want this examined this is serious but we won’t judge you until after the inquiry.” I say to Mr Hide: “You enjoy the roll.”—if anybody could roll he could—“You enjoy the roll and you reap the whirlwind.” Then it will become an issue of Mr Hide’s leadership Mr Hide’s integrity and where Mr Hide goes from here. I relish that debate.