edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Vote: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6998] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 76 
Labour 52; ACT New Zealand 7; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Noes 35 
New Zealand National 22; New Zealand First 13. 
Motion agreed to.
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:610;Page:7308] 
RODNEY HIDE (ACT NZ) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: This had better be a new matter this time. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: It is indeed. Is it your ruling or understanding of the Standing Orders that it is quite in order for an MP to put in an oral question in another member’s name without that member knowing? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: With authority yes. This question had the authority of the whips concerned because of course parties are allocated so many questions per day. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: So it is possible to put a question in in another person’s name without that member knowing? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is with the authority of the member in whose name the question is put. I make that point.
Business Statement 
Business Statement 
[Volume:610;Page:7505] 
Thursday 31 July 2003 
Mr Speaker 
 took the Chair at 2 p.m. 
Prayers 
. 
Business Statement 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 Next week in the House it is intended to deal with the first reading of the Crimes and Misconduct (Overseas Operations) Bill the second reading of the Responsible Gambling Bill and to make progress on the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill and the Crown Minerals Amendment Bill. On Wednesday the first item of business will be the third reading of the Appropriation (2003/04 Estimates) Bill and all stages of the Imprest Supply (Second for 2003/04) Bill. This of course is a 3-hour debate. 
LINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip—NZ National) 
: 
 Can the Leader of the House give us any indication of whether we will be in urgency next week? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 At this stage I cannot give any such indication. It depends on matters that are not totally within my control.
Vote: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8225] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 30 
New Zealand National 23; ACT New Zealand 7. 
Noes 81 
Labour 52; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 8; United Future 8. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of Rodney Hide to clause 249 be agreed to: 
to omit subclause (1).
Vote: Estimates Debate — In Committee Procedure 
Vote: Estimates Debate — In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:618;Page:14441] 
A party vote was called for on the question T 
hat the report be adopted. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 57 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Report agreed to.
[Volume:613;Page:9907] 
We want New Zealand to have confidence in a cervical-screening programme. The question was raised: “Why do we even have one?”. New Zealand women also need to have confidence to know at the point when they have a cervical smear taken or a gynaecological assessment what will be done with their clinical record and who will have access in evaluating the outcome of their cervical smear results. That is absolutely important. But the fundamental thing in any screening programme is that we need a large number of women to be involved with the opt-off provision.
Hunt Jonathan: Electoral (Vacancies) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
Hunt Jonathan: Electoral (Vacancies) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:610;Page:7723] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I call the Hon Matt Robson.
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:609;Page:6252] 
5.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she still have confidence in the Minister of Immigration; if so why? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes because she is a hard-working and conscientious Minister. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If she is a hard-working and conscientious Minister when can she finally get in contact with her job so that people like Jin Ao and Miss Tang Ying—who were brought to the attention of the New Zealand Immigration Service who were involved with the company Student Compass producing and selling false English-language test certificates and who are still here on student permits whilst currently engaged in further business enterprises—can be eradicated from immigration along with these hundreds and hundreds of cases of fraudulent improper and inappropriate activities? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: If the member has specific cases of wrongdoing he should refer them to the appropriate authorities. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What on earth is the Prime Minister doing keeping the Minister of Immigration in her job if all of a sudden it is my job and my colleagues’ job to inform the department about the mess that is going on in the same way as on the  
Assignment 
 programme when she looked so embarrassed after alleging there was no fraud and had to face a whole computer dialogue of it going on; when will she start doing her job and act like a Prime Minister? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Hon David Carter will leave the Chamber. I said there would be no interjections during question time. The member will now restate the question. 
Hon David Carter withdrew from the Chamber. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why does the Prime Minister think that it is all of a sudden my job or my colleagues’ job to tell the Minister of Immigration about the mess that is going on in her portfolio—as happened on the  
Assignment 
 programme when we had the very undignified sight of a Minister claiming that no fraud was going on and the  
Assignment 
 programme producing right in front of her face numerous advertisements about fraud relating to qualifications in the Auckland area—and when will the Prime Minister get this Minister to do her job properly? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are two questions already. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It is the responsibility of every citizen to report wrongdoing to appropriate authorities and it will be investigated.
Vote: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
Vote: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:608;Page:5404] 
A party vote was called for on the question T 
hat the question be now put. 
Ayes 68 
Noes 46 
Motion agreed to. 
Labour 52; Green Party 7; United Future 7; Progressive 2. 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 6.
Donnelly Brian: National Library of New Zealand (Te Puna Matauranga o Aotearoa) Bill — Third Reading 
Donnelly Brian: National Library of New Zealand (Te Puna Matauranga o Aotearoa) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:608;Page:5116] 
Hon BRIAN DONNELLY (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is just a clarification of the order of speaking. In allocating speeches the Speaker has consistently ruled that the United Future party is not a member of the Government—it occurred today during question time. Therefore I raise the question of why in this particular case the call has been given to United Future given the size of our party and given the role that New Zealand First played in terms of chairing the select committee. It is a matter of clarification; that is all.
Vote: Transport Legislation Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Transport Legislation Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:16921] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That schedule 1 be agreed to 
. 
Ayes 84 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2; Maori Party 1. 
Noes 33 
New Zealand National 27; ACT New Zealand 5; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Schedule 1 agreed to.
Hunt Jonathan: Visitors — Attorney-General and Minister of Justice of Tonga Committee on Ecology—Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation 
Hunt Jonathan: Visitors — Attorney-General and Minister of Justice of Tonga Committee on Ecology—Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation 
[Volume:608;Page:5815] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have much pleasure in informing the House that the Hon ’Aisea Taumoepeau Attorney-General and Minister of Justice of the Kingdom of Tonga is present in the gallery. I am sure that members would wish that the Minister be welcomed.
Simich Clem: Retirement Villages Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
Simich Clem: Retirement Villages Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:612;Page:9415] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Leave has been sought. Is there any objection to that course? There appears to be none.
Vote: Maori Fisheries Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Maori Fisheries Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15605] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 12; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Noes 61 
New Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Amendments not agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 253 in the name of Phil Heatley to clause 47 be agreed to.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Referral to Privileges Committee Apologies in the Chamber Question Time 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Referral to Privileges Committee Apologies in the Chamber Question Time 
[Volume:612;Page:9035] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (NZ National—Ilam) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Late last evening the Hon Damien O’Connor apologised for a minor misleading of the House yesterday during question time. Subsequently I believe you offered some apology for an altercation between you and me at the time of that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: And I have sent the member a copy. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I have not received it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I sent it about a minute ago after I received a phone call. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I was in the House a minute ago so I have not received it. My point is simply this. Firstly I think the way in which question time was conducted yesterday got a little bit fractious and it is not particularly pleasing for a member to hear a Minister correctly get into an altercation with the Speaker then find that that Minister sneaked into the House at 5 minutes to 10 that night when no one is really listening to make his apology. I accept that the answer will be that he has to make his apology at the first available opportunity and that of course with the House being in Committee was at 5 to 10 last night. I ask you to consider whether in future when Ministers make mistakes in question time that lead to the sort of situation we had yesterday they should be required to make their correction and apology at the start of question time on the following day so that those around the country who do follow Parliament and do not want to stay up until 5 to 10 at night will know that the Minister made a mistake and that the Opposition was right all along. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Of course the point about the matter is that that was with the leave of the House so no one objected but I take the point the member makes and I will give it consideration.
Hereora Dave: Companies Amendment Bill Insolvency Amendment Bill — Third Readings 
Hereora Dave: Companies Amendment Bill Insolvency Amendment Bill — Third Readings 
[Volume:616;Page:11956] 
DAVE HEREORA (Labour) 
: 
 I take pride in taking a short call to speak on this legislation. I want to say first of all that I commend the sponsor of the Insolvency Amendment Bill. I think the National Party has lost the plot basically because the bill represents justice and fairness for workers. I think that is something those members might not recall. I do think we need to acknowledge another group of stakeholders in this debate and that other group is the employers. I do know my having negotiated with employers in my previous occupation that many of them have agreed to insert redundancy provisions into their collective employment contracts. I think that is a positive sign that most employers accept the liability of redundancy. Throughout this debate I have not heard Opposition members compliment that group of people—the employers. I think they need to be acknowledged simply because as I said they do accept that they have liability to protect their workers. There is a group of employers who do take on that liability and at the end of the day it is about justice for their workers and giving them security. I thought it was important to make that point very clear as I have not heard it throughout the debate today.
Vote: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:608;Page:5220] 
A personal vote was called for on the question  
That clause 1 be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
Barker 
Ewen-Street 
Kelly (P) 
Simich 
Barnett 
Fairbrother 
Key (P) 
Smith L 
Benson-Pope 
Fitzsimons (P) 
King 
Sowry 
Beyer 
Gallagher 
Locke 
Swain 
Bradford 
Goff (P) 
Maharey (P) 
Tamihere (P) 
Brash (P) 
Gosche (P) 
Mallard (P) 
Tanczos 
Burton (P) 
Hartley 
Mapp 
Tizard (P) 
Carter C (P) 
Hawkins (P) 
McCully (P) 
Turei 
Chadwick 
Hereora 
Okeroa 
Turia 
Clark (P) 
Hide 
Parker (P) 
Ward 
Cullen (P) 
Hobbs 
Peck 
Williamson (P) 
Cunliffe (P) 
Hodgson 
Pillay 
Wilson (P) 
Dalziel (P) 
Horomia 
Rich 
Donald (P) 
Hughes 
Ririnui 
Duncan 
Hunt (P) 
Roy 
Teller: 
Dyson 
Kedgley (P) 
Shirley 
Pettis 
Noes 55 
Adams 
Donnelly (P) 
Mahuta 
Ryall 
Alexander 
Dunne (P) 
Mark (P) 
Samuels (P) 
Anderton (P) 
Duynhoven (P) 
McNair 
Scott 
Ardern (P) 
Eckhoff (P) 
Newman (P) 
Smith M 
Baldock 
English (P) 
O’Connor 
Smith N 
Brown 
Field (P) 
Ogilvy 
Stewart 
Brownlee (P) 
Franks 
Paraone (P) 
Te Heuheu (P) 
Carter D (P) 
Goudie (P) 
Perry 
Tisch (P) 
Carter J 
Gudgeon 
Peters J 
Turner (P) 
Choudhary 
Heatley 
Peters W (P) 
Woolerton (P) 
Collins (P) 
Hutchison 
Power (P) 
Worth (P) 
Connell (P) 
Jones 
Prebble (P) 
Yates 
Copeland 
Laban (P) 
Robertson 
Teller: 
Cosgrove 
Mackey 
Robson 
Catchpole 
Abstentions 1 
Sutton (P) 
Clause 1 agreed to.
Relationships (Statutory References) Bill — Instruction to Committee 
Relationships (Statutory References) Bill — Instruction to Committee 
[Volume:624;Page:19064] 
Relationships (Statutory References) Bill 
Instruction to Committee 
Hon MARIAN HOBBS (Associate Minister of Justice) 
: 
 I move  
That it be an instruction to the Committee of the whole House on the Relationships (Statutory References) Bill that it take the bill part by part. 
Motion agreed to.
Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Urgent Questions Questions to Members 
Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Urgent Questions Questions to Members 
[Volume:620;Page:16004] 
RON MARK (NZ First) 
: 
 I should have done this earlier. I seek the leave of the House to table a letter from myself to the Minister of Defence Mark Burton dated 22 March 2002 relating to the Bain shooting. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
RON MARK 
: I seek leave to table a letter dated 20 May which is a response from the Minister of Defence Mr Burton to myself relating to the same matter. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.
Tisch Lindsay: Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Resource Management Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:608;Page:5499] 
LINDSAY TISCH (Junior Whip—NZ National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. You have just ruled five amendments by my colleague Dr Nick Smith out of order because they were not relevant. I would have thought that Parliament this Committee would decide whether they are relevant and that we would have the chance to put that to the vote. What has happened is that you have ruled out of order five of his amendments. I want to know what the position is and how you can justify that. I would have thought that under the democratic process—if we have one—the Committee would determine whether those amendments were relevant and vote accordingly. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The process is very clear. It is the Chairperson’s call and obviously—[ 
Interruption 
] I tell the Hon Nick Smith that that comment is not in order. He needs to look at the Standing Orders.
Hunt Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hunt Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:612;Page:9049] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will tell members what I propose to do. I am returning to question No. 4. I had heard a Labour question a National question and I think I had called Heather Roy to ask a supplementary question so I intend to return to her.
Hunt Jonathan: Privilege — Select Committee Reports—Confidentiality 
Hunt Jonathan: Privilege — Select Committee Reports—Confidentiality 
[Volume:609;Page:6247] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have received a complaint of a matter of privilege relating to an article published in the  
Sunday Star-Times  
of 8 June 2003 headed “Latimer under fire for fees labelled ‘grossly excessive’ ”. The newspaper report purports to summarise the contents of a draft report of the Maori Affairs Committee on its inquiry into the Crown Forestry Rental Trust—an inquiry that has not yet been the subject of a report to the House. 
Under Standing Order 237(2) a draft report of a select committee is strictly confidential to the committee until the committee reports to the House. Divulging the proceedings or report of a select committee contrary to the Standing Orders may itself be treated as a contempt under Standing Order 397(m). I find that the article does constitute a question of privilege in that a breach of Standing Order 237(2) and hence a contempt under Standing Order 397(m) may have occurred. The question therefore stands referred to the Privileges Committee.
Vote: Terrorism Suppression Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Terrorism Suppression Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:626;Page:21639] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 74 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 36 
New Zealand National 23; ACT New Zealand 6; Green Party 7. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendments in the name of Keith Locke to clause 4 be agreed to: 
to omit the reference “(2)” and substitute the reference “(1)”; and 
to omit the reference “(2A)” and substitute the reference “(1A)”; and 
to omit from section 8(2) of the principal Act after the words “To avoid doubt nothing in” the words “subsection (1)” and substitute the words “subsections (1) or (1A).
Brown Peter: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — In Committee Procedure 
Brown Peter: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:621;Page:16345] 
PETER BROWN (Senior Whip—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. You might recall that the last time this bill was before the Committee I raised a concern that New Zealand First has—that by voting split votes we were not able to identify who was for and who was against. I subsequently raised it as a point of order in the House and the Speaker referred me back to the Committee to raise it which I am doing now. I believe that in the interests of true democracy the public are entitled to know from each party who voted for who voted against and who abstained. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I have a ruling to give.
Vote: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8844] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 39 
New Zealand National 20; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 6. 
Noes 69 
Labour 52; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Tony Ryall to clause 111(3) be agreed to: 
to insert the following new paragraph: 
(f)the fee or commission charged by a broker and known by the creditor.
Tanczos Nandor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Tanczos Nandor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:621;Page:16708] 
NANDOR TANCZOS (Green) 
: 
Earlier Marc Alexander tabled a picture from the YouthLaw website. I have the whole document and I seek leave to table the whole document which is a very responsible and restrained outline— 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.
Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:615;Page:10872] 
6.  
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
 to the  
Attorney-General 
: Has she been advised of the statements of the Solicitor-General to the Waitangi Tribunal hearing on the Government’s foreshore and seabed policy in which he said “Those who have a customary right do have a right to stop activities that will have a significant impact on that customary right. That is a real power a real ability.”; if so does she believe this is a fair and accurate representation of the Government’s policy? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Attorney-General) 
: 
 Yes and yes because a customary right is a property right. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Is the Minister now saying that in reference to the property rights that Maori allegedly have over seabed and foreshore they—to quote Dr Cullen—“have got the power of veto” over activities on the seabed and foreshore? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Customary rights of course have to be established through a process in the Maori Land Court but if they are established as a customary right then the same rights and consequences would attach to any property right. For example if I had an easement over a property and someone wanted to develop over my easement then I would have the right to be able to say no. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have been asked by the technicians as we are trying to get a new system developed to ask people not to go quite so close to the microphone as they used to. This is a new set not 16-year-old ones. 
Tim Barnett 
: Can the Minister give an example of where an activity that will have a significant impact on a customary right may be changed following determination by the Maori Land Court of a customary right? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Yes. If someone has a customary right for example to launch a waka and someone else wants to put up a jetty that would significantly impact upon the ability to launch that waka then the iwi would need to be consulted and an accommodation found. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Does the Minister accept then that Maori owners of customary title and rights will be able to undertake commercial activities including the extraction of sand access to fishing and the erection of boat ramps and will not some of those activities inevitably lead to exclusive use of foreshore and seabed and limit every other New Zealander’s access to the foreshore and seabed? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I think the point has to be made that because there is one law that applies to everyone property rights that apply to Maori in this situation are the same as property rights that apply to others in other situations. So that is the fundamental premise—one law for everyone. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Can the Minister confirm that that answer is a “Yes” to the proposition that Maori customary right-holders will be able to limit and control access to the beach and foreshore? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No because as we have said there are public rights of access and they prevail. But the member must also realise that if there is to be any use by whomever it must go through the Resource Management Act process.
Burton Mark: Business Statement 
Burton Mark: Business Statement 
[Volume:611;Page:8387] 
Hon MARK BURTON (Acting Leader of the House) 
: 
 Next week in the House priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Gambling Bill and the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill and the third readings of the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill and the bills arising from it.
Yates Dianne: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Yates Dianne: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:609;Page:6940] 
DIANNE YATES (NZ Labour—Hamilton East) 
: I wish to support this bill on this reading and the introduction of the Stockholm convention. Can I assure the member who has just spoken that any Order in Council must be consistent with New Zealand’s obligations under the Stockholm convention.
Vote: Maori Fisheries Bill — Second Reading 
Vote: Maori Fisheries Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:619;Page:15261] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments recommended by the Fisheries and Other Sea-related Legislation Committee by majority be agreed to. 
Ayes 102 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; United Future 8; Progressive 2; Maori Party 1. 
Noes 17 
Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Question agreed to.
Brownlee Gerry: Financial Review Debate — Procedure In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Brownlee Gerry: Financial Review Debate — Procedure In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:616;Page:11861] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Before you vacate the Chair I wonder whether you could give the House particularly the Opposition some advice on what Speakers’ rulings 17/4 and 17/5 mean and entail.
Vote: Prisoners' and Victims' Claims Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Prisoners' and Victims' Claims Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:626;Page:20946] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 53 
New Zealand National 26; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 6; United Future 8. 
Noes 62 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; Progressive 2. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Tony Ryall to clause 3 be agreed to: 
to insert the following new subclause: 
(1A)The purpose of this bill is to provide a temporary partial restriction on compensation to some prisoners while recognising that some prisoners will keep some if not all of any compensation payout.
Parker David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Parker David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:622;Page:17632] 
9.  
DAVID PARKER (Labour—Otago) 
 to the  
Minister for the Environment 
: What progress have Government initiatives made towards cleaner water in our streams and rivers and what steps are being taken to ensure there is enough clean fresh water for every New Zealander now and in the future? 
Hon MARIAN HOBBS (Minister for the Environment) 
: 
 The clean streams accord signed last year by the Government Fonterra and Local Government New Zealand is good news. Many of the 2007 targets have already been met. Ninety-five percent of dairy farmers—over 12000 farms—are moving to fence off their waterways from stock and to reduce the amount of nutrients being put on their land that goes into the waterways. This afternoon the Minister of Agriculture and I are releasing a public discussion document on managing our freshwater resources more effectively. 
David Parker 
: What options does the discussion document put forward for better management of fresh water? 
Hon MARIAN HOBBS 
: The document provides 13 proposed actions to improve freshwater management. Those include national policy statements and national environment standards as well as developing special mechanisms for regional councils and to enhance water transferability. We want New Zealanders to tell us whether we have identified the right options and what others may exist. 
Ian Ewen-Street 
: Does the Minister agree that the measure of success for the clean streams accord and the Water Programme of Action will be the extent to which water quality improves in our lowland rivers and streams; if so what measures are in place to monitor and report on that water quality? 
Hon MARIAN HOBBS 
: There are a number of indicators available in every regional council taken from the indicators on the Ministry for the Environment website that are to do with water quality. As well the clean streams accord has afforded the time for Fonterra and farmers to be able to have a base standard to measure where they are now and how they will improve.
Vote: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8704] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 48 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Noes 69 
Labour 52; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Tony Ryall to clause 3 be agreed to: 
to add the following paragraph: 
(e)to ensure creditors’ rights are also respected.
Hunt Jonathan: Points of Order — Question No. 4 to Minister 13 May 
Hunt Jonathan: Points of Order — Question No. 4 to Minister 13 May 
[Volume:608;Page:5679] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: A personal explanation cannot be debated according to Standing Order 343 and that includes referring to it in a question. But the events that give rise to the explanation can be referred to as long as the veracity of the statement made to the House by the member is not challenged or questioned.
Brown Peter: Holidays Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Brown Peter: Holidays Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:16053] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I draw your attention to the fact that you have closed down both Part 1 and Part 2 with some dissatisfaction from this side of the Chamber. This bill appears to be getting through the Committee with the support of United Future. However not only were its members not on the select committee they did not hear any submissions and as far as I am aware they did not speak to any of the submitters on this new bill. It is causing quite some concern that you are chopping the debate a little short might I suggest. Therefore I am asking you to be a little more tolerant concerning the debate on the title and commencement. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I understand and I thank the member for his points. I will certainly give them consideration.
Vote: Taxation (Annual Rates Venture Capital and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — Instruction to Committee 
Vote: Taxation (Annual Rates Venture Capital and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — Instruction to Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:16470] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the motion be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 57 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 6; Maori Party 1; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Motion agreed to.
Peck Mark: New Zealand Trade and Enterprise Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
Peck Mark: New Zealand Trade and Enterprise Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6280] 
MARK PECK (NZ Labour—Invercargill) 
: I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Cunliffe David: Taxation (Base Maintenance  and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill Privacy Amendment Bill (No 3) — Third Readings 
Cunliffe David: Taxation (Base Maintenance  and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill Privacy Amendment Bill (No 3) — Third Readings 
[Volume:626;Page:21464] 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Associate Minister of Revenue) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Revenue 
: I move  
That the Taxation (Base Maintenance and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill and the Privacy Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a third time 
. 
The central feature of the Taxation (Base Maintenance and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill is the introduction of important reforms designed to ensure that foreign-owned banks operating in New Zealand pay sufficient tax on their New Zealand incomes. Specifically the bill strengthens the thin capitalisation rules to ensure that the income of banks cannot be sheltered by interest deductions arising from excessive debt. Banks must have enough capital in New Zealand on which no interest is deductible to fully fund their overseas investments. The new measures will result in the more efficient operation of thin capitalisation rules in New Zealand while giving greater protection to the New Zealand revenue base. This bill is around 170 pages long. Every year from foreign banks alone it will therefore protect about $2 million of revenue per page. 
In keeping with the Government’s commitment to the business sector the bill also introduces a number of business-friendly measures including a number of technical changes to the tax depreciation rules to improve their operation and reduce compliance costs. These include broadening the rules on tax deductibility for business environmental expenditure such as the costs of preventing remedying or mitigating the discharge of contaminants. The bill will allow those costs like other business costs to be taken into account for business purposes. The other measures in the bill aim to improve the operation of tax law. Of interest to tax professionals and in particular chartered accountants is the introduction of new measures to give greater clarity to the operation of a statutory privilege for those in the business of providing tax advice. 
Finally as a result of this legislation a consequential amendment makes a change in a cross reference contained in the Privacy Act. 
Having reached the third reading this legislation is the result of a long process involving the work and input of many. It includes the submissions on the proposed legislation made by interested parties the dedicated work of officials who supported the bill during its development and passage and the detailed analysis carried out by the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I am grateful to all of those involved in bringing the bills to their third reading and I now commend the bills to the House.
Business Statement 
Business Statement 
[Volume:613;Page:10219] 
Business Statement 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 Next week the House will go into a 1-week adjournment. When the House resumes priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Families Commission Bill the first reading of the Maori Fisheries Bill and probably further progress of the Radio New Zealand Amendment Bill and the Criminal Records (Clean Slate) Bill. Wednesday will be a members’ day. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I understand from talks around the traps that there is a proposal to set up a special select committee to deal with controversial legislation that the Government is proposing in the next short while. I wonder whether the Leader of the House might give us an indication of what legislation will go to that committee what the committee’s make-up will be and when those pieces of legislation are likely to be forwarded to that special select committee? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 Yes it is intended to set up a special select committee whose membership will be determined in accordance with party proportionality and by each party’s own party whips and leadership. So there will be four Labour members two National members and one each from the other minor parties. Initially it is intended that the fisheries legislation will go to that select committee but it is probable that we will seek to send also foreshore and seabed legislation and aquaculture legislation. The fisheries legislation as I say is intended to go through its first reading on Thursday of the next sitting week. The other legislation can be anticipated early in the new year.
Shirley Ken: Maori Fisheries Bill — In Committee 
Shirley Ken: Maori Fisheries Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15650] 
Hon KEN SHIRLEY (ACT) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I think this is a very grave situation. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Not really. 
Hon KEN SHIRLEY 
: The Committee has flagged that if this decision were to stand then that could have all sorts of ramifications. Indeed it may be appropriate that we recall the Speaker. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: If that is the member’s wish that is fine by me. 
Hon KEN SHIRLEY 
: I think it is a decision of some gravity Mr Chairperson. If you are to persist in this way then we must ask to recall the Speaker to clarify the matter.
Power Simon: Maori Fisheries Bill — In Committee 
Power Simon: Maori Fisheries Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15637] 
SIMON POWER (Senior Whip—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I seek your advice on a ruling. A number of members on this side of the Chamber have been raising serious questions about different aspects in various parts of the bill not least those raised by my colleague the Hon Bill English. Now it has come to my attention that we do not have any officials present to assist the Minister in this matter. At present the Minister is refusing to answer the questions that are being put to him as is his right. But I seek your guidance as to why officials are not present to assist the Minister in answering those questions. I ask whether this is normal practice whether it is at the sole discretion of the Minister that the officials are excluded from the debating Chamber and whether the Opposition can ask you to rule to have the officials present in order that the questions raised by my colleagues can be answered.
Vote: Corrections Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Corrections Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:617;Page:13144] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That schedule 1 as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 62 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; Progressive 2. 
Noes 54 
New Zealand National 26; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 6; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Schedule 1 as amended agreed to.
Carter David: Points of Order — Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3)—Referral of Supplementary Order Paper 246 
Carter David: Points of Order — Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3)—Referral of Supplementary Order Paper 246 
[Volume:619;Page:15093] 
Hon DAVID CARTER (National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave to move member’s notice of motion No. 3 in my name without debate. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is.
Vote: Injury Prevention Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment Bill (No 3) — Second Reading 
Vote: Injury Prevention Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment Bill (No 3) — Second Reading 
[Volume:625;Page:20178] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Injury Prevention Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment Bill (No 3) be now read a second time.  
Ayes 111 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2; Maori Party 1. 
Noes 8 
ACT New Zealand 8. 
Bill read a second time.
Hartley Ann: Ngati Awa Claims Settlement Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hartley Ann: Ngati Awa Claims Settlement Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:623;Page:18725] 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I have heard the two speakers and I am ready to proceed. The Speaker is recalled under Standing Order 178 to give a ruling on a matter of procedure. Whether or not a note was circulated is not a matter of order on which the Speaker can rule. The member has correctly sought leave that the bill be returned to a select committee. It is his right to do that. I am now putting that leave matter to the House. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: That is not the leave matter. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: The member has sought leave— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Might I say what it was? I sought leave to move a motion to send it back. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: That is right the member has sought leave to move a motion. That is exactly what I said. I am putting that leave now. Is there any objection for the matter to be put as Mr Brownlee asked? There is. That is the end of the matter.
Vote: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 3) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 3) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:618;Page:14121] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That Part 2 as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 110 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 8 
ACT New Zealand 8. 
Part 2 as amended agreed to.
Brownlee Gerry:  
Brownlee Gerry:  
[Volume:607;Page:4109] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (NZ National—Ilam) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You are right. This is a serious debate and I am sure the House will wish to treat it in that way. I recall that Dr Cullen’s leave—which we did not object to—was for nine 10-minute speeches. You may recall that I asked for some clarification at the Business Committee about the length of speeches for the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition. Our agreement to the debate was on the basis that they would be given 15-minute calls. It is a shame that we should be in this current situation. We expected that the extra 10 minutes would have been split equally between the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition. It is very hard for a Prime Minister to outline a country’s position on something as serious as this in 10 minutes. It is also very difficult for the Leader of the Opposition to respond adequately in such a short period of time. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I was at the Business Committee. I recall the decision and it was exactly as the Leader of the House has read it out. I was there at the time and that is how it was. Leave has been sought for that and the House has granted it.
Tamihere John: Maori Fisheries Bill — First Reading 
Tamihere John: Maori Fisheries Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:614;Page:10484] 
Hon JOHN TAMIHERE (Associate Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 E tu ake au kei te tautoko e te mihi i mihia e te whanaunga me te Minita Maori i te komihana no reira tena koutou tena koutou. Kei te tautoko i te mihi i mihiaina mo te kaimahi mo te komihana aroha ki a koutou. 
I just acknowledged my relation’s acknowledgment of the commission and the workers in it. In Maoridom we have this saying that rings up and down the maraes year in year out month in month out and the short version of it is: he aha te mea nui ki te ao he aha te mea nui ki te ao hou he tangata he tangata he tangata. 
[ 
What is the most important thing in the world; what is the most important thing in the new world? It is people it is people it is people 
.] 
With regard to the tortuous approach that has been taken to this bill that saying has been perverted: he aha te mea nui ki te ao hou? Kei te moni kei te moni kei te moni. 
[ 
What is the most important thing in the new world? It is money it is money it is money 
.] 
As we move forward into the select committee let us now start to concentrate for a change on the people rather than on the distribution the division and the greed. 
The final thing I want to say with regard to this issue is that in large part the asset has been distributed. This allocation model just brings it to closure. In terms of the lease rounds the few have done very well in the name of the many. We must now put the spotlight on Maori leadership going forward with regard to how they will connect the performance of our assets—and this asset has been performing well there is no doubt about that—with the under-performance in our communities. We can no longer continue to tolerate that. 
I conclude by saying that in terms of his decision Justice McGechan was absolutely prescient in his comments in the High Court in Auckland when he stated quite clearly that the way the Te Putea Trust is being operated is right on song. On that basis in terms of the submissions to the select committee I commend the bill to the House.
Vote: Resource Management (Waitaki Catchment) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Resource Management (Waitaki Catchment) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15410] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 74 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 45 
New Zealand National 27; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 8; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Amendments agreed to.
Vote: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6179] 
A personal vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 15 
Ardern 
Copeland 
Peck (P) 
Te Heuheu 
Awatere Huata 
Dunne (P) 
Ryall 
Turia (P) 
Baldock 
Key 
Smith M 
Teller: 
Choudhary (P) 
Mapp  
Smith N 
Hutchison 
Noes 99 
Adams  
Donnelly 
Kedgley (P) 
Robson (P) 
Alexander (P) 
Duncan (P) 
Kelly (P) 
Roy 
Anderton (P)  
Duynhoven  
King 
Samuels (P)  
Barker (P) 
Dyson (P) 
Laban (P) 
Scott  
Barnett 
Eckhoff (P) 
Locke (P) 
Shirley 
Benson-Pope 
Ewen-Street (P) 
Mackey (P) 
Simich 
Beyer 
Fairbrother (P) 
Maharey (P) 
Sowry 
Bradford 
Field  
Mahuta  
Stewart 
Brash (P) 
Fitzsimons (P) 
Mallard (P) 
Sutton (P) 
Brown  
Franks  
Mark (P) 
Swain (P) 
Brownlee (P)  
Goff 
McNair (P) 
Tamihere (P) 
Burton (P) 
Gosche (P) 
Newman (P) 
Tanczos 
Carter C (P) 
Goudie 
O’Connor 
Tisch (P) 
Carter D (P)  
Gudgeon (P) 
Ogilvy 
Turei(P) 
Carter J 
Hartley 
Okeroa 
Turia (P) 
Catchpole 
Hawkins (P) 
Paraone (P)  
Turner 
Chadwick 
Heatley  
Parker (P) 
Ward (P) 
Clark (P) 
Hereora 
Perry (P) 
Williamson (P) 
Coddington (P) 
Hide 
Peters J (P) 
Wilson (P) 
Collins  
Hobbs (P) 
Peters W (P)  
Wong (P) 
Cosgrove (P) 
Hodgson (P) 
Pillay (P) 
Woolerton (P) 
Cullen (P) 
Horomia (P) 
Power (P) 
Worth (P) 
Cunliffe 
Hughes 
Rich 
Yates 
Dalziel (P) 
Hunt (P) 
Ririnui 
Teller: 
Donald (P) 
Jones (P) 
Robertson  
Pettis 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The next amendments are in the name of Stephen Franks and are on Supplementary Order Paper 71. They amend clause 3 the purpose clause and insert a new clause 3A to do with protection of freedom of speech of association and of religious expression. 
The question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 71 in the name of Stephen Franks to clause 3 and to insert new clause 3A and cross heading be agreed to.
Vote: Goods and Services Tax (Exclusion of Rates) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
Vote: Goods and Services Tax (Exclusion of Rates) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:619;Page:14644] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Goods and Services Tax (Exclusion of Rates) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. 
Ayes 31 
New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Maori Party 1. 
Noes 89 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 27; ACT New Zealand 8; Progressive 2; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Motion not agreed to.
Hunt Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hunt Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:609;Page:6476] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The House agreed to give the Hon Dr Nick Smith leave to table. He did not table the documents in the time required—by 6 p.m. that evening. But I am happy—[ 
Interruption 
] I am stating a fact as relayed to me. However I take the member’s point. I will seek leave again. Is there any objection? There is.