van de Molen TimTIM VAN DE MOLEN (National—Waikato): Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker. I think that previous speaker Dr Duncan Webb got a little sidetracked from the bill we're actually debating here. He spent a lot of time talking about fees and whilst indeed there may be a case for reviewing the current fee structure this bill doesn't do that. This bill has nothing about reviewing fees in it at all. Actually the example he gave about the $300000 and having another $20000 if they weren't hit with these terrible fees—well I think you would find you would not have $300000 if you were in KiwiFund compared to other funds because you would have a typically lower return on your investment.What we would see if we're having a Government guarantee in behind this fund is that it would have lower returns because of the lower risk. That's how these things work. Risk and return—I'm sure that member has heard the term before. What you would find as well though is that actually if you were constrained to a domestic market you would have a higher risk profile within that fund because of the inability to invest offshore and diversify that risk. So I think he's a little confused there and it seems to me that they're really just advocating for additional State control. We've heard it so many times already and this is just another example of that.The KiwiSaver industry is in good heart in New Zealand. We've got over $40 billion of funds under management. More than 75 percent of Kiwis are now invested. This is an unnecessary solution to a problem that doesn't even exist. We're operating in a competitive market at the moment that's well-regulated and of a high standard. Consequently there's a high level of public and regulatory confidence. We don't need this. Yes I certainly accept that perhaps there is an area to explore around the current fee structure—what is or isn't disclosed in headline fees as the member suggested. But that certainly doesn't need to be done via this piece of legislation.In fact you don't need legislation to create a working group at all such as this bill is proposing and we've seen that. The Government certainly knows they don't need legislation to create working groups; we've already had 12 in the last 121 days. We've had the Film Industry Working Group the pay equity working group the Tax Working Group the ministerial advisory group to review NCEA the group to stocktake the housing crisis the Climate Commission the inquiry into State care abuse the inquiry into mental health the bowel screening review the inquiry into the fuel pipeline outage a three-year review of the education system and most recently the dairy industry review—one that is significantly concerning for constituents in my area of the Waikato. We have no idea what's going on and all we're seeing is continual talkfests around creating these working groups to try and pad out what the Government might or might not choose to do because they actually still don't know. I suggest that whilst there may be a case as I've mentioned to review the fees we certainly don't need this KiwiFund Bill. It's unnecessary—the industry is already performing well people are getting great returns at the moment and there's over 75 percent of people invested—and yet we still are looking at another example of a Government bill looking to take State control and take away the opportunity for Kiwis to make decisions for themselves.So I'm opposing this bill because there's absolutely no need for it there's no place for a working group at this point and we've already had more than we need. I would encourage the member to put his energy into something a little more productive that might be a bit more appropriate for New Zealanders. So on that note I would just encourage them again to consider exactly where the industry is at the moment what's happening in there and what they're trying to achieve through this. As we've heard there's no aspect of this bill anywhere that suggests we're going to be reviewing fees. So I think if that's what they really want to do then they can do that as we've already heard through the select committee process which will be much more straightforward and much more transparent. So that would be my recommendation to the Government in this instance. We don't need the KiwiFund Bill and for that reason I won't be supporting it. Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker.