Ardern Jacinda: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeArdern Jacinda: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 16 September 2015. Volume:708;Page:6674. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]9.JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development: If reducing child poverty is a priority for her Government why has the number of children living in poverty based on the Household Incomes in New Zealandreport increased from 260000 in 2013 to 305000 in 2014?Mr SPEAKER: Again as I call the Minister I have been advised that this answer will be longer than normal.Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development): The member is misrepresenting the Household Incomes in New Zealand report which uses multiple measures of poverty and hardship. I refer the member to page 131 on the household incomes report which states that making the sort of claim that the member has just made in her question is not correct and “is misleadingly matter-of-fact.” and “breaches the reports’ multi-level approach to monitoring.” For the benefit of the member the household incomes report shows that the median household income increased significantly last year while the earnings of those on the lowest incomes have remained stable. That has increased the number of children living in households with incomes of less than 60 percent of the median income after housing costs despite their incomes remaining the same. Using that member’s logic of relying on a single measure we would have reduced child poverty if the median income had fallen. This is obviously nonsensical and shows the importance of using a number of measures to assess long-term trends in poverty and hardship.Jacinda Ardern: Is child poverty too high in New Zealand?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: As I have just outlined in my answer to the primary question it is very difficult to use one measure to determine poverty and hardship. However this Government is determined to address the most severe hardship for our children which is why in Budget 2015 we increased the benefit rate by $25 a week for the first time in 43 years and we increased Working for Families for those low-income working families. Again huge measures have been put in place to address the hardship that the lowest-income families in New Zealand have.Jacinda Ardern: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I deliberately asked a very short question: is child poverty too high in New Zealand? That was off the back of the Minister’s first answer which I listened to. I asked for her determination. She did not give me an answer to that question.Mr SPEAKER: Order! In fact three of her colleagues interjected through the answer “Answer it—yes or no.” I refer the member to Speaker’s ruling 187/4 which states that you cannot demand a yes or no answer no matter how clear the question is. [Interruption] Order! I am still ruling. On this occasion the best way forward I suggest is that I will give an additional supplementary question to the member Jacinda Ardern.Jacinda Ardern: Is child poverty too high in New Zealand?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I am unable to answer that question. As the household incomes report points out there is no way on one measure to actually answer that question. I refer the member to the annex to section H which brings together all the measures relating to low-income and material hardship findings for children which draws on both the incomes report and the companion report that goes with it. That is what we should be using to determine severe hardship and hardship in New Zealand families.Jacinda Ardern: If child poverty is a priority will she use Social Justice Week to set targets to reduce it like the UK has done; if not why not?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: As I said again in a previous answer this Government is determined to address severe hardship for New Zealand families. That is why in Budget 2015 we brought in a package worth $790 million addressed to those families receiving the very lowest incomes. That is about actions that we take not having special weeks to recognise it.Jacinda Ardern: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister specifically about whether or not she would set targets. I still did not feel like that question was addressed.Mr SPEAKER: No. The member also referred to whether child poverty is a priority for the Government and without a doubt in my mind the question was addressed on this occasion.Jacinda Ardern: Why has the Minister set targets to reduce child abuse but will not set targets to reduce child poverty?Grant Robertson: What a good question.Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Well it is an excellent question actually. And the answer to the member is that it is very easy to measure the number of assaults on children. That is a very easy thing to measure. However as the report points out—and again I direct the member’s attention to the annex to section H in the report that she is quoting from in the primary question which brings together a range of measures that is needed to give a true picture of what is happening in those low-income New Zealand families.Jacinda Ardern: Which elements of Labour’s child poverty bill which sets five targets for reducing child poverty across five measures does she disagree with; if she cannot name them will she support the bill?Mr SPEAKER: Either of those two supplementary questions.Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I do not have the bill in front of me.