Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:613;Page:9794] 
7.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Does he have confidence in his department's chief executive; if so will he still have confidence in him after the State Services Commission inquiry into the so-called “goon squad” and the inquiry into the supervision of paedophile Lloyd Alexander McIntosh? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 Yes and I await the reports with interest. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why does he have such confidence when is it not a fact that the reason he will not commit to an independent inquiry is that it may prove suggestions that the dangerous paedophile Lloyd Alexander McIntosh routinely flouted his parole conditions by making numerous phone calls to children by not living at his mother’s home as he was required to by failing to attend officially ordered counselling sessions and by frequently being unsupervised for long periods of time? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As I have already indicated there is an inquiry into the matters that have been raised. The important point is this: it is a bit rich for that member to talk about confidence when the National Party has demoted that member from No. 8 to No. 15. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is irrelevant. 
Martin Gallagher 
: How has the Department of Corrections under the leadership of the current chief executive performed over the last 5 years? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The Department of Corrections’ latest annual report shows that the department has performed well over the last 5 years. For example in the period since 1997-98 the number of breakout escapes decreased from 0.65 per 100 inmates to 0.12; the number of serious inmate-on-inmate assaults fell from 1.6 per 100 inmates to 0.02; the number of serious inmate assaults on staff fell from 0.08 per 100 inmates to less than 0.01. The department has been doing pretty well over the last 5 years. 
Marc Alexander 
: What assistance and/or hindrance did the Minister receive from other political parties with regard to convincing him about the need for a full and frank investigation into the activities of the “goon squad”; and what was he referring to when he mentioned “grandstanding by Opposition parties”? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister cannot answer the last part of the question; he can answer the first part. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I had considerable input in terms of coming to a decision about this matter from the member who asked the question who came to my office and discussed the matter in a proper and cordial manner. I did see other members of Opposition parties grandstanding in the media and that is why I went cold on a select committee inquiry. This is not an opportunity for people to use that case down in Christchurch to try to ratchet themselves up in the polls. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I ask you to consider that answer very carefully. The substance of the question is serious but the Minister is trying to lift it into a sort of light comedy show. That is not fair to the people who are listening or will be reporting this afternoon’s proceedings. The Minister’s suggestion that Opposition parties—in particular the National Party—are not willing to cooperate with him and are grandstanding is totally unacceptable to us. Offers were made in this House using this forum for reasons that will become apparent during the course of that inquiry. I suggest the Minister may wish to apologise for those comments. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No if the Minister had mentioned the National Party I would have been down on him like a ton of bricks. He did not mention any party. I listened very carefully because I had told him he was responsible for answering only the first part of the question. The member has made his point and that is probably where it rests. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Given that the chief executive of the Department of Corrections and his actions in running his department will be under investigation in the State Services Commission inquiry into the “goon squad” what confidence does the Minister have and what confidence should Parliament have that the chief executive can lead an inquiry into the actions of his department in failing to maintain the supervision of a man who raped two children in this country? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The inquiries are quite separate. The first one which relates to the situation in Christchurch is in the public arena. The second one is about contracts with third parties and that is what the investigation will be looking into. 
Marc Alexander 
: Will the Minister assure this House that the terms of the “goon squad” inquiry will not be too tightly circumscribed so that the key issues of accountability simply evaporate into no-go areas and that the people found to be culpable will have the full measure of justice brought to bear on them no matter what position they currently hold in the Department of Corrections; if not why not? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As I understand from the State Services Commission the terms of reference are currently being worked through. I expect an announcement on this matter tomorrow. I say to the member that the whole issue of accountability will be part of it. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Given that the chief executive of the Department of Corrections led an inquiry into the “goon squad” fiasco and this Minister is now dismissing that inquiry and requiring a State Services Commission independent inquiry why does he not take the concerns of the people of New Zealand seriously about the way he and his department are arranging supervision of dangerous paedophiles and call for the independent inquiry that we know will come in this issue eventually? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I do take the concerns of New Zealanders very seriously which is why we are looking into both matters.