Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 27 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:8234. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
2. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister for Economic Development 
: Does he stand by all of the Minister of Economic Development’s statements made regarding the Hobbit dispute? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development) 
: 
 Yes because in my experience both the current and former Ministers for Economic Development in this Government are fine and upstanding gentlemen. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he stand by the statement by the Minister for Economic Development in this House on 28 October 2010 when he said there had been “no request or … pressure from Warner Bros to change our law.”? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Yes. My understanding is that at that stage that was the situation. I would expand for the member in this regard that the information released yesterday just shows how much risk there was that  
The Hobbit 
 movies would not be produced in this country. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is the Minister aware that that statement was made on 28 October 2010 during the debate on the bill to introduce the law changes so it came after the negotiations and is he also aware of the correspondence from Carolyn Blackwood of Warner Bros on 12 October which referred to its deep concerns with our employment law? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I am not aware of the details of those particular communications but it is apparent that there was concern about whether  
The Hobbit 
 movies would be produced in New Zealand. It is apparent that the law was changed and  
The Hobbit  
movies were produced in New Zealand. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: How can the statement by the Minister for Economic Development on 28 October 2010 that there had been “no request … or pressure from Warner Bros to change our law.” be true when we have the email correspondence from Warner Bros stating its deep concerns with New Zealand’s employment law? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I have not seen the original quote the member is referring to and of course there are differences in practice between what is a concern and what is requiring a law to be changed. But the fact remains that the Government moved to clarify a law that was obviously causing concern for this industry. As a result of that this industry has been far more successful in New Zealand and this Government is very proud of that fact. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Will the Minister make himself familiar with the speech by the Hon Gerry Brownlee in this House on 28 October 2010 where Gerry Brownlee said and I quote from  
Hansard 
: “I want to make it abundantly clear again that there has been no request or—the Opposition would say—pressure from Warner Bros to change our law.”; and if that statement is not true will he request the Minister to come to this House and amend it? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I have not had the opportunity to read that. I am working through Mr Brownlee’s speeches since 1996 since I have been in the House because they are generally brilliant speeches but I am only up to 2002 at this point so I have a fair way to run before I get to 2010. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does the Minister think it is a laughing matter when a Minister of the Crown comes to this House and misleads this House—directly misleads this House—by telling the House that there had been no pressure from Warner Bros when the email traffic released just yesterday proves that there was very significant pressure from Warner Bros to change our law? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Well I think what is a laughing matter is the fact that this member talks constantly about creating jobs in the New Zealand economy but opposes every hands-on— 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was not addressing the question in any way whatsoever. I want to know the answer to the question. Does he think it is a laughing matter when a Minister misleads Parliament? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the member ought to go back and reread his own question to the Minister. The Minister very adequately responded to and addressed that question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I apologise for being somewhat late with this because I thought our Opposition would have picked up the matter that there was an accusation in the House unrefuted by the Government of deliberate misleading the Parliament. I think that should not be allowed to stay on the record because the right way of bringing that up is a breach of privilege. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am advised that it was not a suggestion of a deliberate misleading of Parliament and if it was in the hands of the Government and they wanted to take objection they are able to do so. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Will the Minister now familiarise himself with the speech by the Hon Gerry Brownlee on 28 October where Gerry Brownlee said that “there has been no request or … pressure from Warner Bros to change our [labour] law.”; and if he discovers that I am in fact correctly quoting from  
Hansard 
 will he go to Gerry Brownlee and ask him to correct this statement which is clearly untrue? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: In answer to the first part of the member’s question I may well at some point read that speech but the Government has no concerns about the actions that it took to get  
The 
Hobbit 
 movies and other movies produced in this country. It is because we like to be hands-on and actually achieve some things for the New Zealand economy. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That is not the question that the Minister was asked. What he has sought to do now twice is to duck out of it by making a statement to do with another issue but not to do with— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I do not need any more assistance from the member. [ 
Interruption 
] I do not need any further assistance from the member. The member asking the question asked a two-part supplementary question. The Minister rose and very satisfactorily answered the first part of that question. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Will the Minister for Economic Development be correcting his clearly misleading statement that he made in this House during  
The Hobbit 
 law debate that there had been no pressure from Warner Bros to change our labour laws? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I need to point out to the member that I was not the Minister for Economic Development at the time. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Nonetheless he has responsibility. He is the Minister. He must answer the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the appropriate way forward is for the member to re-ask that question. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: OK. Will the Minister for Economic Development come back to this House to correct the statement he made that Warner Bros had never pressured the Government to change the labour law given that there is clear evidence that Warner Bros did pressure the Government to change the labour law? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I would repeat that I was not the Minister at the time but in any respect the Government is very happy with the decisions it has made in regard to  
The Hobbit 
 movies and to the legislation change. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Are you saying that he addressed the question given that he is the Minister and there is continuity in ministerial responsibility— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. No I am not and I think on this occasion it is appropriate that the member asks the question a second time or now a third time. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I have got to remember. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes it is varying a little bit. I appreciate that. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: The essence of the question is that the record is very clear that the Minister for Economic Development said to this House there had not been any pressure or request from Warner Bros to change our labour law yet the email evidence is very clear that Warner Bros did put pressure on New Zealand to change the labour law so will the Minister for Economic Development correct the record in  
Hansard 
? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I particularly want to hear the answer. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Well I have struggled with this particular suggestion of the member because my question is how far back do I go in terms of responsibility as Minister for Economic Development because I am no more responsible for the statements of my good friend the Hon Gerry Brownlee than I could be for Jim Anderton or Trevor Mallard before them. 
Hon David Parker 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The problem with that answer is that he is responsible. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The difficulty I have here is that the question has now been asked three times. It is not for me to satisfactorily design any answer to the satisfaction of the member asking the question. It is now for the House and the public to judge that answer for themselves. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect given your ruling the fact that you allowed the member to ask the member three times presumably indicates that the Minister had not complied with the Standing Orders in even addressing the question. So to leave it there I think is very unfair to the questioner because the Minister still has not complied given what you have just said with the Standing Orders. That is grossly unfair to the questioner. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the Minister has addressed the question—I accept maybe not to the satisfaction of the member asking the question. There have been three opportunities. That is quite sufficient and the matter now will be for the public of New Zealand to judge the answer. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is the member questioning my ruling? 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: No I am going to ask you a question Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well no you are not. You are going to raise a point of order. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Yes I am. The point of order is this: is the new regime now in effect whereby a questioner—a member—can ask a question several times with your indulgence and then if the Minister has not complied with Standing Orders that is it? They have worn out their welcome— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: —and the Minister gets off the hook? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I appreciate the point raised by the member. At the end of the time I have stated that in my opinion the question has been addressed. I am not arguing that it has been satisfactorily answered to the questioner’s satisfaction or to that of any member of the Opposition. The question has been addressed and on that basis we are moving on. 
Grant Robertson 
: Did the Minister for Economic Development become aware that the blacklist on  
The Hobbit 
 movie imposed by Actors Equity had been lifted before 20 October 2010? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I am not exactly aware of that chronology but I would point out to the member that there is no doubt that the damage caused by the blacklist had been done and the confidence of the industry was obviously affected as is reflected— 
Grant Robertson 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We have the same problem here. We have the Minister for Economic Development who is responsible for that portfolio and responsible for answering questions and he has once again failed to answer a very direct question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thought the question was whether the Minister was aware and he said he was not aware. 
Grant Robertson 
: No. Do you want me to re-ask the question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think on this occasion that that is the safest way forward. 
Grant Robertson 
: Did the Minister for Economic Development become aware that the blacklist on  
The Hobbit 
 movie imposed by Actors Equity had been lifted before 20 October 2010? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: And I would have thought that was adequately answered but I give the Minister another opportunity. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Well I will do it again. I am not aware of the exact chronology because there was a lot happening at that time but if the member wants to put it down in writing I am sure we could address it for him. But the reality is that the damage in any event had been done in terms of the confidence of the industry. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Why are you allowing this Minister to get up and say “No I am not aware of the detail that is being asked.” and then to bombard the House with information that is not to do with the question? Why do you not sit him down like you would anybody else? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Because on this occasion I was absolutely sure that that was the way the Minister answered on the first occasion. Mr Grant Robertson took a legitimate point of order suggesting the question had not been addressed. I wanted to listen to that being addressed. The question clearly has been addressed and on that basis we will move on if there are any further supplementaries.