Little Andrew: New Zealand Flag Referendums Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLittle Andrew: New Zealand Flag Referendums Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading In Committee[Sitting date: 23 September 2015. Volume:709;Page:6957. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition): Well that speech from the Leader of the House pretty much sums up the National Government’s approach to a very serious issue for the country and that is the consideration of whether or not we change our flag. For that member as it is for the Prime Minister it is just a game. It is about who has got what and it is just about manipulating and pussyfooting and carrying on as if it is all just a big game.You see the National Government could have done this weeks ago. The National Government could have done this weeks ago. It could have done it last week when we sought the leave of the House to introduce legislation to add another option and to give New Zealanders a choice. We will support this bill because we support giving New Zealanders a choice—a real choice. The reality about the flag referendum process so far—and the whole flag-changing process—is that it has just under John Key become an absolute and utter shambles. He could not manage a flag referendum process to save himself which now it turns out is what he is going to have to do.New Zealanders are disillusioned. They are beyond disappointed. They are disillusioned and frustrated and disappointed that they will not be listened to by the most senior elected politician in the country. This is the Prime Minister who goes around to every meeting he can with anywhere between two people and 200 people and insists that they hear his case for change demands that they raise their hands in answer to his question and then when they do not give him an answer he likes he berates them. That is where this has now come to.Let us go back to the start of this process. This has always been John Key’s pet project. He said to the people of New Zealand “We must change the flag. We must have a flag change.” and then he said it must be black and he said it must have a silver fern on it. When nobody liked the idea of it being black he said: “Oh as long as it’s got a silver fern on it.” He pumped that up and he talked it up and he selected a Flag Consideration Panel of his own. This was a consideration panel that was tasked with coming up with a new design for a new flag. Do you think it had a designer on it? Do you think for the biggest design project for the nation—a design that is meant to reflect the nation—the Government would put a professional designer on the panel? Not one—not one which gave the lie to the Prime Minister’s claim that this was about us forging a new identity. It was about his project and his appalling taste in aesthetics for another thing.So we went off with a Flag Consideration Panel that had no design expertise. Then when the Prime Minister was called out on it after it had toured the country getting an average of 29 people at its meetings and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on that exercise it then thought: “Gee we’d better get a designer to come in and have a look.” A designer came and had a look for 2 hours and that was it. That was the input. But it was too late by that time because everybody was dancing to the Prime Minister’s tune.Then the Flag Consideration Panel came up with its recommendations. The Prime Minister set up a personally selected panel having told the world at large: “We must have a flag with a silver fern on it.” The Flag Consideration Panel was told it had to come up with four options. What do three of the four options have on them mysteriously?Hon Ruth Dyson: A silver fern.ANDREW LITTLE: Oh a silver fern. How unusual. What a coincidence—just what the Prime Minister wanted and one other. The panel overlooked some other obvious contenders. That is how shambolic it has been.It does not stop there of course. They had a cross-party group of this House. Only one party was not on it but every other party was. Every other party bar National said that we ought to ask New Zealanders—not only because we are a democracy but because we as politicians respect the electorate—whether they want to change the flag or not. There was objection from one party only—the party opposite; the Government party. And even though the recommendation went to Cabinet what did Cabinet do? It just dumped it. It pushed it aside and said it was not relevant. The Government said it was not going to give people that choice because who knows—people might not want to change the flag. Uh oh! That is democracy under the National Party in New Zealand today.This has been an utter shambles. It is John Key’s utter shambles and every attempt to try to get some responsiveness some democracy since has fallen on deaf ears. We tried last week. I offered to work with the Prime Minister. I said: “Let’s at least have a talk about it.” It is not good. We saw the public reaction. We know the public is terrified that they are going to get to the end of the second referendum after we have spent $26 million and we will still have the same flag.We offered to work with the Government on it. John Key publicly said: “Yeah I’ll meet with Andrew Little. We’ll have a talk about it.” I wrote to him and said: “Here are some issues. Let’s have a talk about it. No conditions—let’s have a talk about it.” Then he wrote back and said: “No you put conditions on it. We can’t meet.” So I wrote back to him and I corrected him. I said: “No no Prime Minister you seem to have got this wrong.” I said: “Let’s meet with no conditions. Let’s at least have a talk about this because this is about public confidence in this process.” It is not about political gain. It is not like Gerry Brownlee’s speech which was about calling out who has outmanoeuvred whom who has got this or that point up and who has scored a particular point.This is far too important. National Party members might think this is all a big game. They might think it is all about their egos or the Prime Minister’s ego but this is way more important than that. There are New Zealanders who are deeply concerned about this. There are those who do not want to change because they consider that the current flag is the flag that they identify with as they have gone into conflicts around the world. They are concerned about it and they must be entitled to have a voice. They should not be rubbished or talked down or “outmanoeuvred” as the Government might have it.We will take this opportunity to ensure that New Zealanders have more choice but we will also take the opportunity with the passage of this bill to ensure that New Zealanders have a real choice. We are not going to overlook the thousands and thousands of New Zealanders who are concerned that they are not being afforded the dignity of being asked the very basic question: “Do you want to change the flag?”. That is the first question New Zealanders should be asked. They should be shown some respect by the Government. They should be shown some respect by this Parliament. We will argue for it and we will put that up in the Supplementary Order Paper during the course of the debate. Then we should let New Zealanders decide. Let New Zealanders make a real choice and a real decision.This is not about game playing. This is an important exercise that reflects the flavour of New Zealand to the world—our sense of our own identity. It may well be if the polls are anything to go by that most New Zealanders are thinking that this is not the time—this is not the time. If that is the sentiment of a large number of New Zealanders and if we are to go through with a referendum and give people the democratic choice then they should be given a real choice. They should be allowed to answer that question.Personally I think it is time we reconsidered our flag. I am prepared to support that change given that now a referendum is inevitable but let New Zealanders speak. Let them have their choice. This is not the plaything of 121 politicians. It is not for them to score points and work out who might be smarter than whom. That would be an abomination for such an important issue.As I have said we will support this bill. We will argue it all the way though. We will argue for the rights of New Zealanders on such an important issue. It goes to their sense of identity our identity what we show around the world and what we show to ourselves on our occasions of national significance. This is not a matter where anything other than the maximum choice should be given to voters who decide and give us the responsibility to do what we do. So we will do that. We will hold our heads up high and proud that we have stuck to our principled position which is that New Zealanders must be given a choice on this issue and must be given their voice. We will argue and take every opportunity to make sure that the ballot papers for this referendum truly reflect that.If we get to the end of the referendum process and there is no change in the flag and this Government has seen $26 million spent that will sit firmly at the feet of the Prime Minister and of every single member of the National Party. They have led this country on a silly foolish folly a merry dance and it is an absolute and utter shambles. They cannot sort it out themselves. They are terrified of the electorate of New Zealand.