Genter Julie Anne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Genter Julie Anne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 14 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:7877. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
12. 
JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: Would he support Budget 2013 including funding for Vote Parliamentary Service to ensure that parliamentary cleaners and other support staff are paid a living wage of at least $18.40 an hour? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance) 
on behalf of the Minister of Finance: Any considerations around Budget 2013 as the member is aware are confidential until the Budget is delivered. But I would point out to the member that the Speaker is the Minister responsible for Vote Parliamentary Service. If the member has any questions about how money in that vote is spent or could be spent in that vote she should direct those to the Speaker. 
Julie Anne Genter 
: Why would his Government not show leadership and support a pay rise that would give the cleaners in Parliament a living wage and lift 37 families out of poverty when it would cost less than the salary of one Minister? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I think it is important to note that everybody I think wants to see real wages grow in the New Zealand economy for New Zealanders and their families. It is absolutely something that we are all—I think most people in this House—are very passionate about. But of course for that to occur we have to do the things that allow that to become affordable. We have already noted earlier in this House this afternoon in question time the growth of the minimum wage in the New Zealand economy and the fact that the minimum wage is a relatively high proportion of average wages. But fundamentally for Governments and organisations and companies to be able to afford further increases in wages that involves further productivity increases more investment and for companies more sales. It is those things that the Government is very focused on assisting with in order to enable wages to continue to grow and our record in this matter is actually pretty positive. 
Julie Anne Genter 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I appreciate that the Minister said that everybody would like to see wages grow but I did not hear an answer to my specific question about the Government showing leadership and why the Government would not show leadership on this specific issue of the parliamentary cleaners’ wages. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are two difficulties with your question. Of course one is that it is not the Minister’s responsibility. Vote Parliamentary Service comes under the auspices of the Speaker. The second difficulty with your question is of course given in the first answer from the Minister: he is not at liberty to discuss Budget issues at this stage. 
Julie Anne Genter 
: Is it fair and reasonable to back huge pay rises for the chief executives of our State-owned energy companies while ignoring the needs of those who clean the Minister’s office for the minimum wage? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Obviously there are a range of questions in there and none of them are actually directly the purview of the Minister of Finance because the State-owned enterprises make their own decisions about how they pay all of their employees and of course as I pointed out previously in respect of the vote that the member is interested in that is the responsibility of the Speaker. But in a more general sense we of course want to see wages continue to grow. This Government has a reasonably good record in the context of the global financial crisis of seeing wages continue to grow—of real wages growing considerably faster than the cost of living. We would all like it to happen more and the way to do that is for the New Zealand economy to work better. That is why the Government is working on more investment in the economy improving productivity and improving the skills of the economy. Those are the things that can make a real difference. 
Julie Anne Genter 
: Does the Minister stand by his comments last night on Radio Live that some employers are unwilling to pay more than the bare minimum in wages because they are greedy; should not the Government set an example and take a lead on this issue? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I am obviously not aware of what the Minister may or may not have said on the radio last night and therefore would have to give him the opportunity to see the transcript. 
Julie Anne Genter 
: Has he read the wealth of literature some of which was summarised recently in  
The Economist  
magazine that shows increasing wages for lower-paid workers does not result in job losses and actually can increase productivity increase consumer demand and therefore lead to more employment? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I appreciate that there is obviously a range of views on this matter but actually it stands to reason of course and in fact is supported by the Government’s advice around lifting minimum wages that each time wages go up that does put pressure on job losses in the economy. The question is by how much and of course we do tend to place the minimum wage higher every year. But we do all have to understand that there are trade-offs in terms of the number of people employed in the economy. The other side of the House spends a lot of time understandably encouraging the Government around job growth and there is a balance in that space. 
Julie Anne Genter 
: I seek leave of the House to table the  
Report of an Investigation into Defining a Living Wage for New Zealand 
 which shows that hundreds of thousands of Kiwi workers— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: What is the source of that document? Is it available to members via the website? 
Julie Anne Genter 
: It was prepared by Peter King and Charles Waldegrave— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is it publicly available and equally— 
Julie Anne Genter 
: I am not aware of whether it is publicly available. I have a copy of it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The easiest way is to put the question. Is there any objection to that document being—[ 
Interruption 
] There is. 
Julie Anne Genter 
: For the benefit of the Minister I seek leave to table some of the research from  
The Review of Economics and Statistics 
 which shows that the minimum wage has actually— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The source of the document? 
Julie Anne Genter 
: It is from the journal  
The Review of Economics and Statistics 
. It is behind a pay wall. It is an academic journal. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The easiest way to resolve it is that I will put the leave. Is there any objection? There is no objection. That document can be tabled. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That concludes questions for oral answer— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Supplementary question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Supplementary question. I apologise to the Rt Hon Winston Peters. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Apologies accepted. Would National provide a pro rata contribution from its parliamentary funding as New Zealand First has offered to do so these hard-working cleaners working at Parliament no less sometimes with two jobs just to get by can receive a decent top-up to a living wage; if not why on earth not? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Of course I have to defer in all these matters to the members who have been in Parliament a heck of a lot longer than I have and have had many opportunities over the years to address these issues. But of course unfortunately—or fortunately depending on your perspective—the Minister of Finance does not get to determine the allocation of parliamentary parties’ funding. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask him about the Minister of Finance’s determination. I am asking him would the National Party provide a pro rata funding top-up as my party New Zealand First has offered to do? He can answer that question can he not? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well no he cannot because he has no responsibility for it. Vote Parliamentary Service comes under the responsibility of the Speaker.