8. Question No. 8—Māori DevelopmentHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) to the Minister for Māori DevelopmentQuestion No. 8—Māori Development8. Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) to the Minister for Māori Development: Does he stand by his statement that the Treaty is fundamental to our nation"?Hon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for Māori Development): Talofa lava. Yes the Treaty is fundamental to our nation. It is embedded in our constitutional fabric past present and future. Before I resume my seat my acknowledgement to our Matua Willie Jackson for returning from the Oxford debate successfully. I understand your colleagues have been very happy in your absence.Hon Willie Jackson: Thank you very much for that! Kia ora. How can the Minister stand by his statement; sorry sorry—sorry Mr Speaker. He rattled me a little bit with that compliment—threw me a little bit. I'll just come to that question again. What priority if any will the Minister's statement reflect the aspirations of Māori in Budget 2024?Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava. We are prioritising the 35000 extra Māori who ended up on a benefit over the last six years and the 60 percent of Māori tamariki who didn't make it to school as a result of the Labour education approach and also the 1700 Māori households who are currently living in emergency housing up and down the country in places like Fenton Steet Rotorua and Ulster Steet Hamilton West and making sure that we address the needs of Māori and all New Zealanders.Hon Willie Jackson: How can he stand by his statement when all that Māori see are cuts to Māori initiatives and the continued undermining of the Treaty of Waitangi?Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava. One more sleep to go heigh-ho-hippy-ho and we hope to see tax relief for many Māori and all New Zealanders.Hon Willie Jackson: What best reflects the Government's position in relation to the Treaty and Māori: Winston Peters who has compared Māori policy akin to Nazi Germany David Seymour who believes the Treaty partnership is a misinterpretation—Rt Hon Winston Peters: Point of order. If you're going to make statements in the question then you have to ensure you can validate them with proof. No such comment was ever made in the way Mr Jackson just outlined.SPEAKER: I made strong recommendations to the Business Committee on Tuesday that questions in the House that raise—basically that contain—allegations against others should be avoided for the order in the House. Do you want to speak to the point of order?Hon Willie Jackson: Yes I'll speak to the point of order Mr Speaker. So Mr Peters—I was talking about a reference he made to Nazi Germany at his own conference. I just want to apologise to the Minister I want to clarify to the House that I don't want to misrepresent him but it was both Nazi Germany and the Ku Klux Klan that the Minister compared the policy with—this is from his own conference.SPEAKER: That's good; well you can table it if you want to. I'm sure it's widely read and expected. The other point I'd make is that Minister Potaka has no responsibility for anything that was said by the leader of the New Zealand First party. So think about that. Rt Hon Winston Peters.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Not only did Willie Jackson say something that wasn't true in his first question he's now compounded it when he knows full well that that speech says it is Labour Party policy that resembles the Ku Klux Klan.Hon Willie Jackson: Well Mr Speaker I can only—SPEAKER: What are you doing here? Are you speaking to that or are you going to—Hon Willie Jackson: I'm speaking to that Mr Speaker because I stand by—SPEAKER: Hang on there's no way I'm going to give a ruling here that says that you can go ahead with those sorts of accusations. Think about your words. You're obviously very good at this debating stuff so think about the way you put your question together.Hon Willie Jackson: Well Mr Speaker I wanted to—with respect—get a position from the Minister in terms of what basically sums up the Government's Māori and Treaty policy and that's why I'm giving the examples of David Seymour the Hon Winston Peters and the last person I want to give as an example was the Prime Minister whose view on Māori policy and Treaty policy is that Māori can only protest on the weekend when it is convenient to him. So I would like to know from the Minister: what basically sums up the Government's Māori and Treaty policy?SPEAKER: Well the problem is I'm sure he can't answer that in a concise fashion that question time would allow but I will ask him to perhaps make a brief statement. Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava. I'm very proud to be part of a party that started the historic Treaty settlements process over 30 years ago. I stand with my esteemed colleague the Hon Paul Goldsmith who has continued in the vein of Christopher Finlayson and Doug Graham. E mihi ana ki a tātou.Hon Willie Jackson: Mr Speaker point of order. The question's very clear. I can't help it Mr Speaker. I'm asking for the Government policy and the Government and his view in terms of Winston Peters David Seymour and the Prime Minister and he's waffling on about Doug Graham.SPEAKER: Well I guess he's just throwing out a bunch of names like you have. So I just think the question with all due respect is not that clear. I'll give the member one more shot at the question.Hon Member: Someone send aid to Oxford!SPEAKER: Let him go.Hon Willie Jackson: In terms of the Minister I'll ask the next question: is the Minister planning to attend the Hui Taumata this Friday in Hastings and if so what will he be saying to all those concerned about his Government's Māori policies?Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. As we all know tomorrow is the Budget and there are various responsibilities that go with being a Minister of this Government attending to Budget matters. I look forward to hearing and potentially seeing the outcomes of the hui that will be convened at Ōmahu the home of various hapū of mine—Ngāti Mahuika Ngāti Honomōkai and Ngāti Pakau. Kia ora tātou. Hon Nicola Willis: Do Māori stand to gain from a Budget that delivers responsible economic management?Hon TAMA POTAKA: I look forward to hearing the Budget tomorrow. I wanted to acknowledge our manu pūtea Minister Nicola Willis for her absolutely professional and diligent approach to ensuring that Māori and all New Zealanders benefit from this Budget.SPEAKER: Supplementary question—[Interruption] We'll just wait for a bit of quiet.Rawiri Waititi: Does the Minister believe that Te Tiriti is fundamental to our nation?Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. Yes and I believe that Te Tiriti o Waitangi—the Treaty of Waitangi—is the basis for the kotahitanga that I have subscribed to for the course of my life.Rawiri Waititi: Does he believe and will he confidently put on record that all the rangatira on behalf of their respective hapū who signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi the Māori text ceded sovereignty to the British Crown or did Māori maintain rangatiratanga?Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. As we know the Treaty of Waitangi—Te Tiriti o Waitangi—is a sacred covenant a kawenata tapu that was signed between various rangatira iwi and hapū and representatives of the Crown.Rawiri Waititi: Point of order. Now that question was really clear. I was asking whether he believed that all rangatira on behalf of their respective hapū who signed Te Tiriti o Waitangi ceded sovereignty to the British Crown or maintained rangatiratanga.SPEAKER: Well I'll give him a chance to say something again but I would point out that he made it clear what he believes which was the first part of the question.Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. It is absolutely clear that Te Tiriti o Waitangi—the Treaty of Waitangi—provided that the Crown would actively protect the rangatiratanga of our people.Rawiri Waititi: Point of order. I'm perplexed by that answer Mr Speaker because—Hon Member: It's not an answer.Rawiri Waititi: —it's not an answer. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Wait a minute. Hold on.Rawiri Waititi: It's not an answer—SPEAKER: Start again.Rawiri Waititi: He's made up—SPEAKER: Start again. Points of order are heard in silence.Rawiri Waititi: Sorry. Point of order Mr Speaker. I'm perplexed by that answer because it's actually not an answer. He's made up text that doesn't even exist in Te Tiriti o Waitangi or even its principles or articles. So I wanted to just clarify that for the record.SPEAKER: Well thank you for doing that in your opinion. But he did answer the question with the opening words "I believe" and that is what the intention of your question was and the words for your question were right at the start. And shake your head but in the end words matter. Rawiri Waititi: Does he believe that rangatiratanga can be achieved whilst being subjugated and simulated in this Westminster system?Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. We live in an ever-evolving country Aotearoa New Zealand. I believe that Te Tiriti o Waitangi—the Treaty of Waitangi—is a sacred covenant that's been signed by representatives of iwi and hapū and the Crown.Hon Shane Jones: Can the Minister confirm that this debate was settled by Sir Āpirana Ngata in a seminal document reflecting his understanding a lot closer to the signatories of the Treaty of Waitangi and the Treaty of Waitangi is an indivisible bilingual bicultural document incapable of being dismembered to suit the fads of the minor party of Parliament? [Interruption]SPEAKER: That's enough. [Interruption] That is an absolute 'nuff. Hon TAMA POTAKA: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. As you're aware I am a student of the same college that Tā Āpirana Ngata attended Te Aute College and I subscribe to the learnings and the teachings of Tā Āpirana through great subject matter writings such as The Treaty of Waitangi and The Price of Citizenship."