Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:608;Page:5256] 
10.  
RODNEY HIDE (ACT NZ) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: Is it Te Mangai Paho’s practice to pay out money without contracts in place; if so why? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 My officials advise that no it is not Te Mangai Paho’s normal practice to pay out money without contracts being in place. When that has occurred the late signing relates either to rollover contracts with longstanding parties or to contracts awaiting Te Mangai Paho’s sign-off. In the latter case payment does not normally occur unless the contract has first been signed by the producers. 
Rodney Hide 
: In that case has the Minister seen Te Mangai Paho’s letter to Mana Maori Media Ltd dated 19 November 2002 stating: “The management and board of Te Mangai Paho have become increasingly concerned that the draft contract arrangements have not been completed” and that “Mana Maori Media Ltd have received five advanced payments each of $28695.08 from July to November 2002. Your urgent assistance to this matter is required immediately.” and can the Minister confirm that Mana Maori Media Ltd received $143475.40 of taxpayers’ money with no contract draft or otherwise that nothing has been produced and that that is literally money for nothing; is that the way Labour does business? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: No I have not seen the content of the letter and that is not how Labour does business. 
Mahara Okeroa 
: When will the independent review of Te Mangai Paho be completed? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The review is expected to be completed tomorrow and made available to the board on Monday or Tuesday. 
Katherine Rich 
: In the light of the fact that Mana Maori Media has been awarded $344000 excluding GST to produce a minimum of 10 hours of radio programming a year does he think that a potential rate of $34000 an hour for a radio programme is extravagant even by the standards of Te Mangai Paho and what is he going to do about it? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That is an operational matter and I am not too sure of the hourly rates involved in this business. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can we conclude from his answer to Mr Hide that he was not aware of that letter that he is heading a ministry that has no regard for him as Minister and that it therefore denies him information that is essential for his proper performance in this House? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I am more than certain that the ministry is going along with me and it is spending one of the better times it has ever had under a very good Minister. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I would now like the Minister having said that to address the particular question he was asked. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: No. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think it is important that we get clarification from the Minister here. He appears to be saying to the House that even though he had a question on notice about a matter involving $143000 of taxpayers’ money his officials have never told him that that money has been paid over that there is no contract and that nothing has been delivered. That is what I understand him to be saying to the House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member has repeated the point. The Minister does not need to stand up because he gave a direct answer: “No”. I could not ask for anything more than that. People ask for specific answers and that was a specific answer. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You may not have heard it but when the Minister gave his last reply there was a loud round of applause from the gallery. I think our Standing Orders are quite clear on that. I am not sure whether the Minister brought his cheer team here to the gallery— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I thank the member for raising that point. I heard noise coming from the gallery. I want to tell the people in the gallery that they are observers of our parliamentary democracy. They cannot participate and that is a golden rule. We occasionally allow an exception to that at the end of a particular bill being passed which we are having later today but as far as ordinary question time is concerned there are only 120 people who can participate. I thank the member for drawing my attention to that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you could get the  
Hansard  
when it is eventually produced look at the answer that Mr Horomia gave and tell me how it possibly related to my question. The answer “No” cannot stand as a meaningful answer at all. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member is challenging my ruling. I deemed that reply to address the question; the answer certainly addressed the question. 
Rodney Hide 
: How does this Minister justify to the taxpayers of New Zealand his pay and his position when this House discovers that Te Mangai Paho which he is responsible for has paid Mana Maori Media Ltd $143475.40 without even a draft contract in place nothing has been produced and it takes the ACT party to bring that to this Minister’s attention—not the very officials who are supposed to be reporting to him? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That contract is one of several contracts. Hundreds of contracts are given out. I tell that member that my officials do a lot of good work in relation to informing me and I do earn my pay. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I say to the people in the gallery that I do not want to have to ask them to leave. They are not to participate in proceedings. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek clarification and I ask the Minister to consider very carefully his answer. He has just told this House that there is a contract and that it is one of many contracts. The whole point of the question was that there is no contract. I would like that Minister to think seriously on his answer because it would appear he has been misleading us. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Can I go through matters carefully. Firstly it is an operational issue. Secondly I have offered—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I said there should be no comments on points of order. This is a point of order. The member is entitled to have his point of order heard in silence. The member has raised the point of order and the Minister is speaking to it. The member must not interject or he will go. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. I am in the middle of hearing the Minister. 
Rodney Hide 
: He has not said “Speaking to the point of order”. He has not called “Point of order”. We had this problem earlier this week. What is the Minister doing? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Mr Hide called for the point of order. The Hon Parekura Horomia can speak to it and I have allowed him to do so. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Speaking to the point of order I point out firstly earlier on in my reply I mentioned that it is an operational issue and secondly I do not know the detail of what that member is telling me and whether it is the truth. That is something I will find out about and relay back to the House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Ruling on the point of order I say that this is a debatable matter and we have already had the answer given to the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: When the Minister gave the last answer to Mr Hide and referred to contracts what contracts was he referring to and if they were to do with the absence of a contract which Mr Hide mentioned in his primary question how does his answer make any sense to anybody including himself? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I was referring generally to all contracts.