Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:616;Page:11720] 
12.  
STEPHEN FRANKS (ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: What is the difference between Maori customary title and Maori customary rights to the foreshore and seabed and does he still believe that customary rights flow from customary title as he was reported as saying on National Radio on 24 June 2003? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 Customary title as proposed in the Government’s policy framework enables the title-holder to participate in Resource Management Act processes. A customary right relates to customary use. Back in June 2003 I had in mind customary law as defined by the Te Ture Whenua Maori Act. 
Stephen Franks 
: Does the Minister agree with the Hon Margaret Wilson’s recent advice to this House that “Maori already have customary title over the whole coastline.” and that the customary title comes because “According to Maori customary rights they have a connection with particular areas of the coastline.” and that “... does not need legislation from their perspective.” as she concluded and what exactly does the Minister think customary rights should give that Maori do not already have? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I agree because Maori have the ancestral connection. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: What solutions does the Government propose with regard to Maori customary title and Maori customary rights to the foreshore and seabed? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The Government has proposed to create a new and unified framework that integrates all rights and interests in the foreshore and seabed. That contrasts with the Opposition which has come up with no constructive solution. It seeks only to divide all New Zealanders in this great nation. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Notwithstanding the answer the Minister has just given to the previous question can he confirm that the Government’s new position on customary rights outlined yesterday by the Hon Michael Cullen—to leave open the High Court’s jurisdiction to determine the extent of Maori customary rights—represents a very significant weakening of the public domain access and use as promised by Margaret Wilson by himself and by Helen Clark? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The Government is working to finality and Cabinet decisions will be announced soon. 
Sue Bradford 
: Does the Minister agree that customary rights and the rights of all New Zealanders can coexist as is evident in the management of Lake Taupo and Okahu Bay and in the recently negotiated Te Arawa lakes agreement; if so will the Government consider co-management of the foreshore and seabed? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Yes and yes. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: Is it correct that the Government’s position is that where customary rights are to be granted they will be for specific activities that have been the subject of reasonable continuity in terms of their use back to 1840 and that there will not in that sense be any new customary rights granted under the Government’s proposals? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Yes that is correct. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. What is our remedy if a Minister has contradicted himself during the course of question time? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That can be debated but not during question time. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Three aspects have come out of the Minister’s answers in question time today that are new to this House. Accordingly I seek leave for there to be a debate on those matters immediately after question time today. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave has been sought for there to be a debate. Is there any objection? There is. 
Gerrard Eckhoff 
: Will the Minister now explain just exactly what new rights Maori will have with customary title that they do not already have under the Resource Management Act and if there are to be no new rights exactly what is the debate on the foreshore and seabed all about? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Let us be quite clear on what customary rights are to tangata whenua. They are customary rights handed down to us by our ancestors. 
Stephen Franks 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have a further supplementary question but before I ask it I suggest that the Minister in his last answer made absolutely no attempt whatsoever to answer the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That may be the member’s opinion. It is not mine. 
Stephen Franks 
: Does the Minister agree with the Hon Trevor Mallard who was reported on 26 February as saying: “The fact that rights are not associated with title is something the public doesn’t understand and it will be vital to race relations in New Zealand that that understanding is achieved.” or does he adhere to his earlier answer that he agreed with the Hon Margaret Wilson who said something quite different and if he adheres to his earlier answer and Margaret Wilson’s answer why would Maori be so concerned to get customary title when it confers no extra rights? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There were three questions there. The Minister may answer two of them. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: There are days that I agree with Minister Mallard and there are days that I do not. Most certainly the difference in the sense of suggestions between the Attorney-General and the Minister of Education is a different issue. Cabinet will be informing members as soon as it can on the decisions.