5. Economic Growth—GDP Per Capita and ImmigrationRt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) to the Minister of FinanceEconomic Growth—GDP Per Capita and Immigration5. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all his statements on the health of the New Zealand economy?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Finance): Yes particularly my statement during last week's Budget speech where I said: a strong economy can never be taken for granted. It must be nurtured and worked on or it will quickly go backwards. While the world economy is growing there are plenty of risks and plenty of political uncertainties that could affect us."Rt Hon Winston Peters: If as he told Q+A on Sunday our economy is "performing as a country a lot better than the UK the US Australia Canada Europe"—which is not a country but he said it was—"Japan at the moment" which of these economies' GDP growth is based mainly on consumption and mass immigration like our GDP growth is?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member is simply incorrect. The reason this country is growing is that we have strong Kiwi businesses working hard and getting out there and selling their goods and services on the world stage. That is resulting in New Zealand becoming more attractive in very high levels of employment so we need to attract more skilled workers. The member may want to slow down the New Zealand economy because it is going a little bit too quickly for him but actually I think most people are positive about the benefits of economic growth in terms of wages and increasing incomes.Rt Hon Winston Peters: If there is the remotest shred of evidence of that being true why did the Reserve Bank Governor Governor Wheeler agree that the GDP growth is a sham once open-door immigration is subtracted when he said to the select committee: "If where you're going is to say 'Look in terms of per capita GDP growth it's a lot less impressive' that's indeed correct—just like the rate of productivity growth in the country is disappointing."?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I was not familiar with Mr Wheeler's comments but I am pretty sure he is not the sort of person to use the word "sham". I think the sham here is Mr Peters' comments about Mr Wheeler's comments. But in terms of the question of GDP growth per capita I am pleased to report to the member that the forecast from Treasury in the Budget indicates a GDP per capita growth of above 1 percent and heading up towards 2 percent in different years in the years ahead. It is a solid GDP per capita growth. The member raises a good question about productivity and that is why the Government invests so heavily in the Innovative New Zealand programme which is all about lifting levels of research and development and skill development to help lift productivity over time.Rt Hon Winston Peters: If that is true—Hon STEVEN JOYCE: It is. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Ha ha! If that is true why then did page 10 of the Budget Economic and Fiscal Update state that we are growing because of open-door immigration—their words not mine—and why did very respected company director Kerry McDonald criticise unplanned mass migration and the effect it is having on real export growth housing affordability low wages and labour productivity? Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Kerry is respected—particularly by the member—but in terms of our growth can I just make the following point to him: we have in this country the second-highest rate of employment currently of our adult population—Ron Mark: What for 1 hour a week? Hon STEVEN JOYCE: —of any country in the OECD. And 80 percent of it is full-time work—80 percent of those people are working full-time. We have the second-highest rate of employment in the OECD. So if the member wants to slash migration as he says and to keep skilled migrants away as he is certainly saying that he wants to do that would undoubtedly slow and perhaps even stall the New Zealand economy. I appreciate that might be because the member thinks everything is happening a little bit too quickly for him but actually for most New Zealanders it is positive.Mr SPEAKER: Order! All of the answers are very long.Rt Hon Winston Peters: If any of that is remotely true why is highly respected former director of the Reserve Bank Michael Reddell saying of his claim—[Interruption]—and he does on page 2 of his latest report and he quotes the Minister—that "Our economy is 14 percent larger than it was just 5 years ago."; "Yes but the population is about 8 percent larger. That would leave an annual average growth in per capita terms of 1.1 percent."? How come that Minister cannot get that through his thick head? Mr SPEAKER: Order! The last part is completely unparliamentary and not necessary. [Interruption] Order! The Minister can address the first part of the question.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I stand corrected but I do not think Mr Reddell has ever been a director of the bank. I think he worked at the bank. As I say I stand corrected on that—that is my memory of it. I actually have no idea what the member was trying to ask but I think it was something about per capita growth. Can I say that in terms of per capita growth he just needs to look at the predictions which he quoted so effortlessly from the Budget before which show per capita growth of well above 1 percent each year over the forecast period."