Stanford Erica; Wood MichaelERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Thank you Madam Chair. As I mentioned I wanted to carry on a bit more with this privacy stuff around Employee contact details" clause 234A. I'd like to get an answer from the Minister—we've talked about this in previous sections where it related and this is around the unions' ability to contact non-members to advise them that if they join the union their union fees are likely to be paid back if—once the bargaining is complete and the fair pay agreement (FPA) is in place that they will negotiate for a provision in the FPA that allows those union fees to be paid back. So we've talked about this earlier but this is under this particular clause. Clause 234A(1)(b) says you're not allowed to "use the contact details for [purposes] that is not related to the relevant proposed agreement".So my question to the Minister is: is it relevant to the proposed agreement for a union to write and use the contact details of the employees—to write to them all to say—this is in the very early stages of bargaining—"If you join the union it's going to cost you you know 300 bucks however much it costs to join a union"—I don't know I've never joined one but if that's how much it costs—Hon Michael Woodhouse: More than that.ERICA STANFORD: —more than that; could be—"if you join the union and pay your fees we will negotiate to have those fees paid back to you." So in effect you get the free benefit of being part of a union. So my question to the Minister is: is that appropriate use of employee contact details under clause 234A(1)(b) for the purpose that is related to the relevant proposed agreement?Hon Judith Collins: I would have thought so.ERICA STANFORD: Yeah it probably is but I want to check that because in effect it's relevant to every single proposed agreement because he's allowed that ability for unions to do that.As we talked about earlier we had this discussion in earlier parts around the fact that you are able to entice people into the unions by talking about this potential free union membership as part of the FPA deal and you won't fall into those penalty clauses by enticing people into a union. You can't do anything else as I understand it but you can use that.So the question here is under this clause is it an appropriate use of employee contact details to use them to write to all of those or email or phone up or whatever you decide or even walk into a premises of an employer and pitch yourself to the potential union members to say "Well yep you'll have to pay up but we might even defer your fees potentially so you don't have to pay anything because we will make sure that it's paid back in the FPA that we can include." So the question is: is that allowed? It seems to be under this clause 234A(1)(b) specifically about that FPA. But my question is that this would apply to every single FPA because that's allowed to be bargained for under every single FPA. So I just want to be very clear that that is something that is allowed. We know there aren't any penalties for doing it. But are the contact details specifically allowed to be used for the purposes of attracting people into the unions by saying to them that you won't have to pay any fees and basically your fees will be free?Hon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): The purpose of the provision of the employee contact details is for unions who form the bargaining side and are the bargaining parties to be able to communicate in a two-way fashion with people who they are representing. It is a—Hon Judith Collins: But they're not. They're not representing.Hon MICHAEL WOOD: A member over there says "They're not"; the member needs to read the legislation. The unions who represent employees in bargaining represent all covered employees regardless of their membership.Hon Judith Collins: But what if they don't want to be represented by them?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Well the member just needs to read the legislation. That is how it is written.In respect of the provision of employees' information they have to be able to communicate with those employees. That communication will be two-way. So traditionally in the way that employees are represented in these processes there will need to be a process of asking them what sorts of issues they want to bring forward into the bargaining of confirming what those claims will be of going back to those employees and saying "Here's where we're at in bargaining." at the end of the process and of going back to them and saying "Here is the proposed deal for you to be able to vote on." So by definition that does need to be able to include any of the claims or the issues that the union intends to pursue within the bargaining process. That could include seeking for there to be the payment as described by the member which we have covered in previous parts and that I have affirmed can be part of bargaining processes. A union cannot guarantee that that will happen because it will be a part of the bargaining process.Sam Uffindell: Can you seek to not be represented by the union?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I hear the great chagrin of members opposite about this point. They forget again that this provision is one that is in the existing Employment Relations Act that happily sat there for the entire nine years of which time they were in Government."