5. Question No. 5—HealthDr SHANE RETI (National) to the Minister of HealthQuestion No. 5—Health5. Dr SHANE RETI (National) to the Minister of Health: Does she stand by all her statements and actions regarding wait times including emergency department wait times?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health): Yes in the context they were given.Dr Shane Reti: When she said in answer to a primary question last week that the incorrect emergency department (ED) wait-time data was for November and December isn't it true that the published data actually had inaccuracies for every single month last year?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: There has been a revision to other parts of that data and the correct data I'm assured is now available on the website. I want to make the important point here that this is not data collected from a laboratory or a clinical trial; it is administrative data collected in the day-to-day workings of the health system. As a result there will be from time to time errors that need to be worked through with that. Te Whatu Ora has owned the mistake they have made with their calculations and they have set up a review to identify the process that needs to be improved. That review will be led by Dr Dale Bramley and have an external independent person on it.Dr Shane Reti: Is the ED wait-time data for last year that she said she had been using for ED decision-making exactly the same as the new ED data that was published on Friday night?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Clearly I was not using ED department data to make decisions last year because I was not the Minister of Health.Dr Shane Reti: Why doesn't she know how many staff vacancies there are in emergency departments as stated in answer to written questions?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: If I recall the written question in question that matter related to—no; Mr Speaker I would like the member to put on notice which question he is referring to. There are a number of questions on this data and I'd like to be able to give him the appropriate answer.SPEAKER: I'll give the member an extra question to ask that question.Dr Shane Reti: Does she stand by her recent statement that I would not put targets at the forefront of my health policy." and is this why the only target in the interim New Zealand health plan is a reduction in climate emissions?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: I have made a number of targets in health already and one of those is the very important target that New Zealand should be smoke-free by 2025. It's a shame the member didn't support us in that—one of the things that could have improved the health of New Zealanders substantially. Look I understand there is a debate about targets in our health system and the thing I would say is what I won't do is what National Governments did which is implement targets go round the country thumping the table demanding conforming to the targets and yet not supplying the resource in order for people to meet the targets.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order.Dr Shane Reti: Supplementary.SPEAKER: Point of order—Hon Michael Woodhouse: Oh sorry no no—wait till the end.SPEAKER: OK.Dr Shane Reti: Have any inaccuracies been found in the other data that was removed from the Health New Zealand website last week; if so what are those inaccuracies?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Te Whatu Ora is working through the process of quality assurance on those other targets and will publish them once they are confident.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order. Mr Speaker. Last week you issued a ruling relating to the responsibility for Ministers in an administration. My understanding is that that ruling also applies to oral questions. Now the Minister of Health in one of the supplementary answers said "I wasn't responsible because I wasn't the Minister at that time."—or words to that effect. The difficulty with that is that actually she is. Now an appropriate answer could have been "I don't have that information. I could get it to the member asking the question." But to simply excuse herself from responsibility for answering it because she hadn't been the Minister in the months preceding December and November doesn't seem to be within the Standing Orders.Hon Grant Robertson: Speaking to the point of order Mr Speaker Mr Woodhouse was trying to recall something that had happened; that's not quite what the question was. The question asked whether the member had used particular data last year. The member said that she hadn't used that data last year. I think that is a different matter for responsibility for example for the actions of an agency in a period of time before the member was Minister—but it was a specific question about whether the Minister had used data and she wasn't the Minister at that time.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Speaking to that point—and I won't prolong the discussion but I think it's helpful—the question was to the Minister not to the individual. Furthermore the concession that data in November and December was wrong but hadn't been relied on by the Minister of Health was also due to a period prior to when Dr Verrall became the Minister so it's kind of a dollar each way in that regard. So I would like you to review that and see whether or not the answer was within order.SPEAKER: Thank you to the Hon Michael Woodhouse for raising the issue. You are correct although the question could have been taken in two ways I guess. I should have picked up on it myself. The question was whether the data had been used in making a decision and the Minister answered for herself up until the point that she took control of the portfolio. But the question really still hasn't been answered: whether or not that was an answer on behalf of the portfolio and therefore whether the former Minister made decisions based on that data. Given that the Minister could answer now and maybe the Minister knows or does not know—I don't know. But if the House is happy we'll see if the Minister can answer that.Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: What I can say is that there has been a long-term understanding of this issue of pressure on our emergency departments and work began under the previous Minister on that. As I have come in as a new Minister I have set that as one of my top three priorities—includes the preparation for winter or otherwise emergency department wait-times."