Flavell Te Ururoa: Te Pire mō Te Reo Māori / Māori Language Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeFlavell Te Ururoa: Te Pire mō Te Reo Māori / Māori Language Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 07 April 2016. Volume:712;Page:10349. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for Māori Development):Kia ora tātau katoa e Te Whare kia ora tātau e kōrero nei mō te āhuatanga o ngā mate kua pā mai ki a tātau i tēnei rā īnā tata nei. Ko ngā mea e kōrerohia ake ana e tēnā e tēnā ā ka tangihia ake. Mō ko ake ka rere ngā whakaaro ki Tauranga Moana ki Mauao ki te āhuatanga ki taku tuakana ki a Matiu ko ia tērā i noho nā hei Kaihautū mō ngā take ture i roto i Te Whare Wānanga o Waikato ēngari he hoa tata. Taku putanga i Te Kura o Tīpene ā noho tahi māua. Nō reira kua noho wahangu mō te wā ki te whakarongo ki ngā kōrero ka mutu i tēnei wā ka tuku atu au i taku kōrero ki taku hoa ki taku tuakana me tana whānau: “Taihoa ake nei e hoa ka tae atu ki a koe. Ko tēnei kaupapa mō Te Reo koia tētahi kaupapa i ngākaunuitia mai ai e koe i te wā i a koe e takatū ana i te mata o te whenua. Koia nei te tangi o te ngākau ki a koe e moe e moe ā taihoa ake nei ka tae atu ki a koe.”Tēnā ka hoki mai ki a tātou te hunga ora tēnā tātou. Tēnā tātou mō te āhuatanga o tā tātou wānanga he wānanga kai te haere he kōrero kai te haere ā he rerekē te whakaaro o tēnā ō tēnā ā ka pai koinā te āhuatanga o te wānanga. Nā he wāwāhi te āhuatanga o taku karo i ētahi o ngā kōrero me pēnei rawa te kōrero ēhara tēnei i te mutunga mai ko te tīmatatanga kē mai. Ēhara i te mea mā te pire i tona kotahi tō tātou Reo e ora ai kāre kau kare kau. Kai te rata atu ki te kōrero o tērā a Pita Paraone me tana kī mai: “Ā tēnā ki te kore te ngākau e hiahia ki te kōrero Māori ka kore te tangata e kōrero Māori. Ki te kore te tangata e hiahia ki te kōrero Hāmoa ka kore a ia e kōrero Hāmoa.” Nō reira ko te ngākau tērā ka kawe i tō tātou Reo ki tōna taumata. Hāunga tēnei pire he pepa he pepa! Ēngari ko te ngākau ki te kore te ngākau e hiahia ā kāre he take o tērā whāinga.E aroha atu ana ki te kōrero ā ētahi e mea ana: “Kare e kaha ki te kōrero Māori i roto i tēnei Whare.” Ha i nanahi nei wā tātau kōrero katoa i Te Reo Māori katoa i Te Reo he aha i kore i i tēnei rā? A waiho tērā kōrero ki reira. Kai te matatau tātau katoa? Kare kau kare kau. Ko au tētahi i ako i Te Reo tātou! Nō reira kia kaua tātau e mataku ki te kōrero i tō tātou Reo. Koia nei kei te pūtake o tēnei kōrero.E hoa mā kotahi tau te roa o tēnei kaupapa. I te wā i tae mai au hai Minita nāku te kōrero taihoa tukuna. Tuatahi whakakaohia katoatia ngā tono ki Te Komiti Māori tīkinahia ngā kōrero kohikohia tirohia ngā kōrero o roto. Pēhea e taea ai te titiro aua kōrero? Nāku tonu tētahi rōpū i whakakao mai ki te āta wetewete ki te āta ruku i te hōhonutanga ki ērā o ngā kōrero. Tērā tērā kōrero! Ka rua kaua e titiro noa ake ki ērā tono haere i te mata o te whenua i pērā rawa rātau. Kaua ko te wā kotahi ēngari e rua ngā hīkoi i te mata o te whenua ki te whakamātautau i ngā kōrero i whakahokia mai ai ki roto i te pire. Anā i whakakaotia anōtia ērā kōrero katoa ka mutu ka whakatakotohia ki mua i Te Komiti Māori.Kai te rongo ake au i ētahi kōrero hōu e mea ana ā me pēnei me pērā ha! I roto i ō koutou ringaringa tēnei kaupapa kāre au i rongo i tētahi e kī ana me pēnei me pērā. Ēngari ko te whakatīnanatanga ko tēnei pire! Kai te aro tonu atu ki te āhuatanga o te kupu whakapāha e kōrerohia ake nei e taku tuahine a Nanaia. Ēngari i whakamātauria koutou mō tērā kōrero. I whakatakotohia e koutou tērā kōrero ki roto i Te Komiti Māori e ai ki tāku i rongo nei inanahi kāre te katoa i whakaae mai. Nō reira me pēhea e taea ai e tātau te kōkiri tērā take? Kai te rongo ake i te kōrero kai te rongo ake i te wairua kai te rongo ake i te ngako o tērā hiahia. Kore e taea te karo. Kore e taea te karo i tērā hiahia ēngari ko tōna whakatīnanatanga kai reira te raruraru.Kai te rongo ake i te kōrero a Te Kelvin Davis nei kia toko ake te hiahia o te motu ki te kōrero Māori. Ā ka mutu kia āta kaute tonu i te hunga kōrero Māori mā reira ka taea te titiro ki te pakari rānei ki te ngoikore rānei o tēnei mea o te kōrero Māori. Ā tēnā he mahi uaua tērā pēnei i taku kōrero i nanahi nei he uaua i te mea ko te tatauranga e kōrerohia ake nei ia 4 tau te roa o ngā tatauranga nō reira pēhea e taea ai he uaua. Ēngari koinei te tikanga o taku kī atu kia rua ngā rautaki. Mā reira he wāhi ki a tāua pēnei i tā te Pita Paraone e kōrero nā. He wāhi ki Te Karauna ā mā tātou tērā e kōkiri. Nō reira koi nei tētahi karo ki tērā o ngā kōrero.Mā te kupu whakapāha e whakaora ai tō tātou Reo? Kare kau kare kau! Āe me kōrero mō ngā mamaetanga kai te tika tērā ēngari i rongo ake koutou katoa ki te Kelvin Davis ki taku tuahine ki a Nanaia ki a Adrian anō hoki e mea ana: “Me acknowledge.” Koinei te kōrero i kōrerohia e tēnā e tēnā: “Me acknowledge.” Arā koinei te acknowledgement e kōrerohia ake nei. An acknowledgement ki te kī atu āe i hē Te Karauna āe kua oti i a ia i roto i ngā kerēme Tiriti te tuku i tētahi kōrero ki tēnā iwi ki tēnā iwi. Āe ka ū Te Kāwanatanga ki te wāhi ki a ia ki te whakapūmau i te āhuatanga o tō tātou Reo i roto i ngā whakahaere ā haere ake nei. Ēngari tōna mutunga arā nō te whakamātautau nei āe rānei ka eke ki te taumata e wawatatia ana ē kāore rānei.I puta te kōrero a te Jono Naylor pai ki au tana kōrero he rawe ki tana kōrero. Ki a au i whakairi ake te hiahia o te ao Pākehā ki Te Reo Māori. I kōrero ia mō tana mokopuna hiahia nōna kia kōrero tana mokopuna i Te Reo Māori. Koinei te take kua “Facebook King” tērā tāngata i roto i ngā whiriwhiringa i ngā wiki kua hipa ake i ngā tau kua hipa ake. Ko te mea nui i rangona ki tana wairua e mea ana “Ā he hiahia nōku ki te ako i Te Reo Māori.” a koinei tā tātou e kimi nei i te mata o te whenua.Ka mutu ka kī mai te Kelvin Davis mō te wāhi ki te katoa o te motu. Ko tāku whakautu ki tērā e hoa mā kai roto i te pire i tēnei wā. Arā mena ka titiro ki Part 1 clause 3(2): “The purpose of this Act is—”arā kai roto i tērā. Nama 3(2)(a)(iv): “an official language of New Zealand;” and 3(2)(a)(iii): “a language valued by the nation.”—a language valued by the nation! Nā reira ka taea e au te kī a kua karo tērā kōrero kua puta i a Kelvin te tikanga.E kōrero nei a Pita Paraone mō te āhuatanga o Te Mātāwai. A e 6 mārama kai mua i te aroaro kia riro mā tēnā iwi mā tēnā iwi tāna tangata e whakarite. Kua kī mai a ia he āhua uaua tērā momo whāinga pēnei i taku tuakana a Peeni e kōrero nei ā ko ngā rohe o Tamaki-ki-Runga ki hea rānei ā ko Te Tai Tokerau ērā momo whiriwhiringa. Ko tāku noa ake ko te kī atu waiho mō te 3 tau. Kia mutu rā anō te 3 tau ka āta tirohia anōtia kia kitea mai ai mēnā i eke te kaupapa nei ki tōna taumata. Kai te rongo ake i te hiahia kia whai wāhi ngā rohe. Ko tāku e Pita ki a koe kua tuwhera te kūaha ki te hunga Māori e hiahia ana ki te noho ki runga i taua poari. Kaua ko te hunga e rārangihia ana kāo ki te katoa. Ko te hunga e whai pānga ana ki Te Reo ko ia tērā kua wātea ki a rātou.Mō ngā rauemi taihoa ake nei whakarongo ki roto i ngā kōrero mō te tahua pūtea. Ā tērā pea he rauemi anō rā kai reira. Ēngari kāore au i te whakaae atu ki tāu e kōrero nā e kai te tukua mai he moni ki a Pita ki a Hōri kāo! Ēhara i te pērā. Ko te moni o te hapori ka tukuna atu ki roto i ngā ringaringa o Te Iwi Māori i te mea ko taua āhua anō rā. Ēngari he pūtea anō i whakatahangia ki te āwhina i Te Mātāwai i tōna orokohanga kia taea e ia te oma i te oma roa. Nō reira koinei tētahi kōrero ki a koe.Ka mutu ehara i te mea he nui ngā kōrero me te mōhio anō taihoa ake nei ka tangi te pere. Ēngari arā anō te tāke mō te tāone Māori ēhara kai te rongo ake ki tērā kōrero ēngari pēnei tāku e kī nei taihoa ake nei whakamātauturia tērā kōrero. Mō te Taraipiunara e kore au e kōrero mō tērā hunga mō te kore niho ā tērā pea. Ēngari e hoa nā Te Rōpū Reipa tērā hunga i whakatū nō reira tērā tērā. Mā koutou ērā niho e whakakoikoi! Ēngari tērā tērā kōrero. Nō reira tēnā tātou mō te āhuatanga ō wā tātou kōrero kia ora tātou.[Greetings to all gathered here in the House and also for the acknowledgments to our recent dearly departed. We collectively mourn all those referred to in the many speeches. For me I wish to also acknowledge the Tauranga Moana region including Mauao and my senior relation Matiu who held a leadership position in the law school at the University of Waikato and was also a close personal friend. When I finished school at St Stephens we flatted together. Therefore I pause for a moment in silence to acknowledge the tributes and now I make my own personal acknowledgment to my friend elder colleague and his family.In due course my friend I will be there with you. This matter about the Māori language was an important issue to you throughout your life. This makes your loss so much more poignant; may you rest in peace and in due course I will be there with you.I come back now to us the world of the living; greetings to us all. Acknowledgments to us for the way our debate is going; a debate is in action contributions are being made views by this one and that one are diverse. That is wonderful and that is what a debate is all about. To break up the way I will fend off some of the comments made I need to state from the outset that thisisnot the end point but really the beginning instead. The bill on its own will not revitalise our Māori language—no not at all. I like that contribution by Pita Paraone when he stated: “If the heart does not wish to speak Māori the person will not speak Māori. If one does not want to speak Samoan the person will not speak Samoan.” Thereforeit is only through personal desire that our language can ascend to its rightful elevated status regardless of this bill which is only a piece of paper—unlike the human heart whichif it does not aspire there is no point in pursuing an end goal.I sympathise with the contention by some who said: “I cannot speak Māori in this House.” Goodness me! All our contributions yesterday were totally in Māori so why not today? Leave that statement there. Are we all proficient? No not at all. I was one who learnt the language—we all did. Therefore we must never be afraid to speak in our language. This indeed is the essence of this contribution.Colleagues this proposal has existed for a year. When I became Minister for Māori Development I said: “Hold on release it.” Firstly all submissions to the Māori Affairs Committee were gathered together the information assembledput togetherand contents examined. How is it possible to examine information of that nature? I assembled a group to critically analyse and delve into the full extent of that information. That is that discourse. Secondly do not just examine those submissions but consult the country widely and so they did exactly that—not just once but twice to test the information that came back within the bill. All of that information was then put together and eventually presented to the Māori Affairs Committee.I am actually hearing some new views that we should do this and we should do that. Gracious me! This matter was in your hands. I did not hear anyone saying we should do this or that. But what came out of all that was the manifestation of this bill. I continue to heed the form that the apology referred to by my sister colleague Nanaia will take. But you were questioned on that. You put this before the Māori Affairs Committee and according to what I heard yesterday not everyone agreed to it. So how can we progress that? I hear the talk I hear the spirit I hear the gist of that desire. It cannot be ignored. That desire cannot be avoidedbut its implementation is where the problem is.I hear what Kevin Davis is saying in regard to the desire within the country to talk Māori to well up; furthermore that a census of those speaking Māori be conducted properly to ascertain whether it is strong or weak. That is an onerous task; like what Isaid yesterday it is difficult as the census alluded to here occurs every 4 years—that is how long it takes so how will it be overcome? It is difficult. However this is what I havebeengoing on about: the two strategies. Through that we will have a part as Pita Paraone has stated. The Crown will have a part and we will advance that. So this is a way of putting that issue to one side.Will an apology revitalise our language? Not in the slightest. Let us indeed talk about the hurts—yes let us do that—but you all heard Kelvin Davis my sister colleague Nanaia and Adrian as well saying: “Let us acknowledge it.” Each one of them said: “Let us acknowledge it.” There that is the acknowledgment alluded to here. To give an acknowledgment yes the Crown erred;yes it has fulfilled it through the Treaty claims by making a statement to that tribe and that one. Yes the Government has compliedonits part to ratify the situation relating to our language in terms of governance in times to come—however at the end of it all from this examination or whether it reached the level it wanted or did not.Jono Naylor made a statement that I liked and that appealed to me. In my view he highlighted the desire of non-Māori for the Māori language. He spoke about his grandchild because he wanted him to speak the Māori language. This is the reason that person has become the “Facebook King” in the considerations over the past weeks and years. The crucial thing is that he heard his spirit saying “I want to learn the Māori language.” and this is what we are looking for throughout the country.Furthermore Kelvin Davis stated his views on behalf of the whole country. Colleagues my response to that is: it is in the bill right now. There you are—if you look at Part 1 clause 3(2): “The purpose of this Act is—” there it is in that one. Inclause3(2)(a)(iv) it states “an official language of New Zealand;” and inclause3(2)(a)(iii): “a language valued by the nation.”—a language valued by the nation! Therefore I can now say that the issue and supposition put out by Kelvin has been bypassed.Pita Paraone referred to the situation about Te Mātāwaiand that there are 6 months ahead for each tribe to consider its representative. He has stated that that kind of objective is somewhat problematic and as my senior relation Peeni is stating here for regions of Auckland upwards or anywhere north those kinds of negotiations are Northland ones. I would simply say leave it for 3 years then examine it carefully to see if this matter has reached its peak. I am hearing that regions want representation. My statement to you Pita is that the door is open to those Māori wanting to sit on that board—not just those that are listed; no everyone! Those who have an interest in the Māori language there are those ones; it is available to them.In regard to resources you will be able to listen to the details in the contributions on the Budget later on. But I do not agree with what you are saying there—that money is being allocated to Peter George. No quite the contrary. It is not like that at all. Moneys earmarked for the community will be delivered instead into the hands of Māoridom because those are the expectations of iwi and hapū. But another fund has been set aside to help Te Mātāwai to set itself up so it can run the long race. So this indeed is one narrative fashioned for you in particular.Furthermore it is not because I have run out of something else to run past you but rather because I know the bell is about to ring. But there is the issue relating to urban Māori that I should comment on. I am hearing references to that issue and my response is similar to what I alluded to earlier on. The urban Māori issue will be examined—all in good time. In regard to the Waitangi Tribunal I will not comment on that lot—maybein some other forumperhaps. Suffice to say it was the Labour Partythatestablished that outfit. That is that matter addressed. You lot can put an edge to those teeth! There that is that covered off. In terms of the way our contributions have gone I therefore acknowledge and thank us.]