12. Question No. 12—Local GovernmentSIMON WATTS (National—North Shore) to the Minister of Local GovernmentQuestion No. 12—Local Government12. SIMON WATTS (National—North Shore) to the Minister of Local Government: Does she stand by her statement made to the House yesterday that the establishment of the principles of Te Mana o te Wai included a number of stakeholder groups: rural communities; yes Federated Farmers; it included industry users; it included horticulturalists as well as iwi"; if so why can only mana whenua submit Te Mana o te Wai statements under the Government's three waters reforms?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): Yes I do. In addition to that statement I also made another comment yesterday in the committee when I said "We'll do that through scale and aggregation separating balance sheets. We'll do that through ensuring good governance. We'll do that through ensuring that the Crown's Treaty obligation is built into the reform process. We'll do that by ensuring that there is no privatisation."Simon Watts: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. Why can mana whenua submit a Te Mana o te Wai statement on a river that runs through their land but a farmer who isn't mana whenua cannot submit one for a river that runs through theirs?Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order. I believe that the member is being improper in improperly using w'akapapa.SPEAKER: The question is in order.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Te Mana o te Wai statements are developed by iwi mana whenua groups and they're developed not just for the benefit of Māori; in fact it's for the combined benefits of communities the environment and the way that we think about the intergenerational challenge of looking after our most precious resource water—everyone benefits.Simon Watts: If the goal of Te Mana o te Wai is to improve water quality why can't people who aren't mana whenua but have expertise in water quality submit these statements?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Communities have different ways of being able to reflect their aspirations. Certainly on private land they can do that but in the nature of water catchments they can do that through other groups and other opportunities.Hon Kelvin Davis: To the Minister's knowledge have any of the groups mentioned in the primary question other than iwi ever had cause for a Treaty settlement bill as mentioned in clause 140(1)(b) as a condition for submitting a Te Mana o te Wai statement?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: No but it would be a novel approach.Simon Watts: If non - mana whenua industry users and rural communities are qualified to have a view on water quality why are they prohibited from submitting Te Mana o te Wai statements?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Te Mana o te Wai statements are specifically for the purposes of iwi mana whenua groups to reflect their aspirations as they relate to a catchment. It's for the benefit of the environment and communities and when those aspirations are reflected well everyone benefits.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order. The member is deliberately misleading the role of mana w'enua and our customary rights.SPEAKER: Which member are you talking about?Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Oh this member sorry—beg your pardon e te Māngai.SPEAKER: No that point of order is out of order and I'm going to—every member in this House is an honourable member and to accuse someone of deliberately misleading is out of order to the point that the member will have to stand withdraw and apologise.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: I stand withdraw and apologise.Simon Watts: Has she seen the statement from Federated Farmers released today titled "Countering misinformation on 3 waters Te Mana o te Wai" and if so how does she counter their allegation that the Government has misrepresented their views on Te Mana o te Wai?Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order. I would like to seek your advice. I believe that the honourable member is being reckless with his opinion.SPEAKER: No and those sorts of points of order are not helpful for the order of the House. It's likely to cause disorder. The member has the right to ask questions to hold the Government to account on an important policy and the Minister I'm sure is quite capable of answering that question.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: In response to that question I read very carefully Federated Farmers' submission on the Water Services Entities Bill and in that submission it was very clear that they asked that the concept of Te Mana o te Wai be fully described in the Act and any subsidiary legislative instruments in order to provide legislative certainty. They also said that they wanted issues around Te Mana o te Wai to be subject to further careful consideration to ensure that there is clarity for the water service entities councils and for water users including how Te Mana o te Wai statements may influence resource under section 104 of the Resource Management Act.Simon Watts: Point of order. My question was in reference to statements from Federated Farmers released today. The Minister referenced a submission to select committee which wasn't the question I asked.SPEAKER: Yeah but it did address—Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Point of order Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: No. I'm dealing with this point of order. Did you want to speak to the point of order?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Yes. In so far as that the primary question was the response that I gave in relation to submissions of Federated Farmers in relation to the Water Services Entities Bill.SPEAKER: I did listen carefully to both the question and the response. The response did address the question.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Does she stand by her statement made in the House that "The changes ensure that the new water entities … [will] keep a lid on … rates. At a time when the cost of living challenges confronting households are real these reforms help lessen the burden of [rates]"; if so what does she say to those that believe that the solution to this $185 billion problem is to do nothing?SPEAKER: The question needs to be relevant to the primary or one of the answers—that was neither."