McKelvie IanIAN McKELVIE (National—Rangitīkei): Thank you Mr Chair. I just want to take a brief call on a couple of things that I guess concern me about the unspoken not the spoken bit of this bill. One of these concerns is clause 49 new sections 50A to 50D and the link of that to new sections 59A and 59B in clause 58 and that of course is the unlawful possession of a prohibited firearm. I guess the thing that worried me—and did at the time of the previous inquiry into firearms in New Zealand—was that there are numerous firearms owned throughout New Zealand by people who probably don't even know they own them. I don't want to use my mother but my mother could easily own one of these and she wouldn't even know she owned it. The problem with it is that they're sitting in these houses and places around New Zealand they're now going to become illegally owned and these people aren't going to know they own them. They're then going to hand them in—and I accept that there's an amnesty on that and that the police will use their own prerogative as to whether they prosecute it or not. The issue is that everyone else who hands these guns in is going to get paid for them and these people aren't. I guess the gun underworld in New Zealand is big enough now. I know the amnesty is part of this bill but I know the buy-back is not but I need to link this discussion to that buy-back because my concern is that if a legal gun owner is going to get paid for these guns and an ostensibly illegal gun owner is not then those guns could very easily fall into the hands of those same people we're trying to preclude from getting their hands on these guns. I guess the issue that I've got with this is that—and I think it also applies to parts but I mentioned that last night and I won't do it again today. I think the real concern is that there will be a large number of these guns around New Zealand and they will be in the hands of people who probably don't know that they own an illegal weapon and probably will do nothing about it initially. But eventually that will be discovered and they could easily fall into the wrong hands. The buy-back provisions of this amnesty need to be considered seriously because I think it would be worth having a look at buying back illegally owned guns as well just simply to get them out of the process because we're not going to get them out of the process unless we find some way of dealing with them that's more widely spread than an amnesty. I accept that that won't be part of this bill—it wouldn't be possible to be part of this. But I think it needs to be seriously considered as we go forward as to how we get these guns that are illegally owned in New Zealand—and there will be many more of them as a result of this—out of circulation. That's my first concern. My second one I guess goes back to the issue of the Federated Farmers submission and the issue they had with the destruction of pests. I've listened to the Minister and I accept his view on this. I think the issue that I've got with this is that a lot of these pests—and again it's something that needs to be considered later not now—are very mobile. They're only there for only a minute or two and gone the next. I think the challenge of having to deal with contractors and having to get contractors in means it will be very difficult to track these pests down. So I think in the future we need to revisit this piece of the law. I also listened to the Minister and I agree with him that the less of these things we've got in the less hands in New Zealand the better off we are but there might be a way in the future that we can find of enabling this type of thing to be used by a broader spread of people than perhaps just licensed contractors or otherwise we need to license a broader spread of people to become licensed contractors. I think there needs to be a way of looking at that and how we might do that. I have no answer to that. So those were the only two issues that I was really keen to bring to the attention of the Minister today. I do have as I said quite significant concerns about how we get those prohibited—or what will become prohibited on the passing of this law this afternoon—firearms out of the hands of people who are unlicensed who are inadvertently unlicensed because it won't be intentional. There will be many people who have never had a gun licence in New Zealand who have owned guns all their lives and I'd like to think that there's a way that we could get those guns out of their hands. I think it's much more likely we'll get them out of their hands by including them in any buy-back scheme if it's possible and I realise there's difficulties with that. But I do think we're going to have to look at that and I think if we don't we will end up with a larger black market than we currently have. So those were the two issues I wanted to talk about briefly Mr Chair so thank you for that.