Tisch Lindsay: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:633;Page:5085] 
LINDSAY TISCH (National—Piako) 
: 
 Thank you for that clarification. I know that my colleague has a lot of expertise and experience in various businesses and she has been able to articulate that and show how the impact of employment relationships has affected the viability of businesses. When we look at the title and the words “employment relations” one of the questions one needs to ask is whether those relations are favourable relations for the staff who are to be employed. Are they relationships that will cause a business possibly to have to retrench or even to close down? It is all very well talking about vulnerable workers but in terms of this bill—and I know that over the years there have been a number of amendments to employment relations legislation—we really have to look at the impact of what the bill means and whether the title is applicable and says what the bill means. 
We often judge a book by its title. Maybe we should not do that but when I go into a news agency and want to buy a magazine I will be looking at what the title is in order to see whether it sparks an interest for me to say I will buy the magazine—or newspaper or book—and read it. That is so when I go to the library or whatever. So the title in itself is a marketing tool. It is one of those things that grabs the imagination. With that in mind the title of the bill should really reflect in essence what the bill is about because if it does not then it is misleading. 
When I look at the Employment Relations Amendment Bill provisions I see that although it is meant to protect vulnerable workers what will happen is that businesses that may be contracting may be disadvantaged. We used the cleaning example because the National Party minority view on page 4 of the report of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee which I draw the Minister’s attention to is very clear. It gives practical examples of a cleaning contract whereby if a business was to win a contract it would have to take on the staff of the outgoing contractor. Is that fair? I would say that is grossly unfair because the terms and conditions of a new contract arrangement between the business that is being contracted for by the provider of a service will be affected very much by the calibre of those people who are there. 
So when I look at the title of the bill I would say that this bill should be called the “Employment Relations to Undermine Businesses Amendment Bill”. We are a nation of small businesses. In fact 80 percent of all businesses in New Zealand employ fewer than five people. So to my mind when I read through this bill—and I have looked at it very closely I can assure members of that—I see that it does not do the worker any good whatsoever because it puts shackles on the employer. 
I see that the Chairman is keen that I talk more about the bill in this particular area and I am happy to do that. The bill makes it difficult for employers to say they will go for a contract knowing that when they are to take over a new contract—let us say in the cleaning industry—there are existing staff. As we are a nation of small businesses a lot of family-owned businesses will be affected by that. I believe that a lot of workers whom we are trying to protect with this legislation will actually be disadvantaged. So another name for this bill could be the “Employment Relations Heading to Redundancy Bill”. 
Paula Bennett 
: That’s a good name. 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: I think it is quite a good name: the “Employment Relations Heading to Redundancy Bill”. With that in mind when we look at how businesses work we see that the problem with this Government is that it has never got its feet on the ground. It does not know what makes businesses tick. It has never put an investment in business. It has never taken the risks. Yet it is telling businesses here that this is what they have to do. It is not about employment relations. Employment relations should encompass not only employees but employers. If we want a win-win situation to get the best and to add to productivity—although this Government knows absolutely nothing about productivity in the workplace— 
Paula Bennett 
: How much do they know? 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: Well they do not know very much at all. That is why the Labour Party is on its way out and its members will all be looking for new employment opportunities themselves looking at the polls today.