9. Question No. 9—Local GovernmentNICOLA WILLIS (National) to the Minister of Local GovernmentQuestion No. 9—Local Government9. NICOLA WILLIS (National) to the Minister of Local Government: What is her response to the many criticisms of her announcement that the Three Waters reforms will be mandated amalgamating council water assets into four new water entities?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): I continue to stress the whole reason for these reforms are two decades of under-investment in waters infrastructure. Increased drinking water and environmental standards and constrained council balance sheets means councils will not be able to respond with forecast costs of waters infrastructure investment estimated to be between $120 billion to $185 billion over the next 30 years. Ultimately ratepayers will suffer if these issues are not resolved. I've not seen any alternative put forward by the member's party that would deliver safe drinking water ensure value for money from the estimated $180 billion investment needed over 30 years and keep our beaches swimmable. Nicola Willis: Has she seen the front page of today's Wairarapa Times-Age—[Holds up newspaper headlining with the quote A deceitful lying pack of bastards"]—and if so does she think her approach to three waters reform has built trust and goodwill with local government?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I've seen a number of comments from a number of elected officials which I frankly believe are biased and shameful. Much of the information is making claims that are simply not true or accurate in relation to these reforms.Nicola Willis: Does she think it was biased and shameful of Auckland Mayor Phil Goff to say that Aucklanders would have little benefit from these reforms and would only have a minority voice on an oversight committee?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Aucklanders are already facing within the next couple of years a doubling of their water bills under the existing system and under the existing system Auckland is faced with a constrained balance sheet where Watercare has to defer investment into waters infrastructure. The mayor knows it; that member may not. However the truth remains: Auckland's still gets advantage from being a part of these reforms.Nicola Willis: Does she think it was biased and shameful for Christchurch Mayor Lianne Dalziel to say the reforms have "robbed communities of a voice" and if so why?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Communities have had the opportunity to have a say through their councils on this issue and over the last four years I have been engaged with councils through their executive through zone meetings to ensure that they have good line of sight and understanding of what the problem is that we're trying to fix. Under the current system most ratepayers only have the long-term plan to have a say on anything that's happening in their council in so far as water infrastructure investment once in a triennium. What they will have in this process is an opportunity to continue to engage through the joint working group that I have established and through the parliamentary process now that will legislate an outcome that will ensure that all communities will benefit.Hon Grant Robertson: Why didn't the Minister take the easy option of doing nothing to rectify the decades of underinvestment in New Zealand's water assets?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Because members on that side of the House did it and we got nowhere and that led to a frail system. Unfortunately I'm not the kind of Minister that will kick the can down the road on a hard issue. It's important to address the substantial challenges facing local government of deferred investment in water's infrastructure. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume her seat. There is now too much interjection. While this is a contentious matter as to the method of sorting it it's also a serious matter as members in Wellington and the Hawke's Bay know well and I want to hear the answers. Has the Minister finished? The Hon Dr Megan Woods.Hon Dr Megan Woods: Have those decades of doing nothing including from members from the opposite side of the House contributed—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member's just sort of took her own—Matt Doocey: What an embarrassment.SPEAKER: Who said that? Well when I am making a ruling describing me in that way is totally inappropriate. The member will stand withdraw and apologise. Matt Doocey: I withdraw and apologise.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order Mr Speaker. While the request was entirely appropriate I don't think it would be fair to say that the—there was no use of the second person and it shouldn't be implied that the comment was directed at the Speaker.SPEAKER: Well I was on my feet when the comment was made. That is the only assumption that can be taken from it and the member is lucky to be in the House. Nicola Willis: What is her answer to Waimate Mayor Craig Rowley who says that under her Government's model his council would be paid only $2 million for $10 million worth of assets and how is that not theft?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Members need to be aware—and I; it may be remiss of not having clarified it—that councils will not lose control of their assets. They will continue to own their assets alongside a group of other councils under the water service entities. But let's be very clear: when assets transfer to these water service entities so does debt and liability. So in order to get a full picture of what we are talking about here we must understand that it is about assets debt and liability transferring to the water service entities so we can have a more cohesive financially sustainable method of investing in waters infrastructure because there are serious long-term challenges.Nicola Willis: Will ratepayers be able to vote out decision makers on water entities if they don't deliver and if not how will these decision makers be accountable to local communities?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Under the current system ratepayers do that every three years. Under the system that I'm promoting there is an opportunity for ratepayers to have a greater say in the benefits to them as consumers through consumer panels and economic regulation and I think ultimately what ratepayers want to know is that the quality of the services that they are receiving is such that they can rely on clean water coming out of the taps; ensuring that dirty water doesn't go into streams lakes and harbours; and ensuring that we have a world-class waters infrastructure network that can underpin housing regional economic development—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume her seat. Nicola Willis will apologise to the House. She knows what she did was out of order then.Nicola Willis: I withdraw and apologise."