Mahuta NanaiaHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): At the risk of repeating myself on this particular issue I think it is important to clarify that the provision in relation to non-binding referenda applies to anything. So for example if a council wanted to hold a non-binding referendum to gauge the sentiment on any issue such as those named by the member including Māori wards as long as it's non-binding it can still continue. What this provision does is remove the discriminatory binding poll which has already been shown to be an onerous threshold to the creation of Māori wards. It prevents that from occurring.Now the member rightly points out however that a council could hold a binding poll in theory in relation to general wards but as I've raised in previous parts of the debate never in the living history of several councils and Local Government New Zealand has that binding referendum ever been applied to general wards or constituencies.The member also raises the point about public consultation. Well in the creation of general wards and constituencies rural/urban wards and constituencies that matter goes through a representation review process. As signalled in the previous debate on this bill stage two of this process will look for an enduring solution in relation to the creation of Māori wards and constituencies that is more in line with provisions that apply to other wards and constituencies and that will apply to elections beyond 2022.Now the member doth protest too much because time and time again he claims that this bill is creating an anomaly. It isn't. There have been several articles that have been written by lawyers to say that the legislative fix to remove a discriminatory poll provision is quite simple. But what that member would have this House and whoever is listening to this debate believe is that by perpetuating a discriminatory provision in law somehow that creates greater equality for Māori in terms of getting representation around the council table. That is wrong; I disagree. That's why we're progressing with this particular change. I do value the importance of councils engaging with their community and I also know that every three years when citizens and ratepayers go to the voting booth to vote for those representatives that they believe will represent them and their communities they are also voting for people who will represent the wider interests.That standard will apply to every elected member whether they are a part of the Māori ward or constituency a general ward or constituency and urban or rural ward or constituency because that is New Zealand. That is the New Zealand who has advocated in support of this bill. That member might choose to make up the fact that this has been promoted solely by myself but I point time and time again—Hon Dr Nick Smith: I'm not claiming that!Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Oh yes you are. There's dog whistles going on everywhere.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Point of order Madam Chair. The Speaker of the House specifically pulled up the Minister last week and said that was an unparliamentary phrase—Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I withdraw. That member would have this House and whoever's listening to this debate believe that a standard is being set in relation to removing a discriminatory poll that somehow creates an imbalance. Actually it does not. I value local participation in decision making and I value the way in which councils have advocated for this particular change. Twenty-one of them submitted—21 of those councils submitted. Now 21 of those councils represent the majority view around their decision-making table that says We have walked this path. We know how challenging it is but we want to continue to walk forward into this space to ensure Māori participation can be gained around the table." I do not agree with the member with all of his contentions—and I just remind the committee non-binding polls can be held in relation to any matter around the council decision table including Māori wards and constituencies—binding polls—and the threshold that has already been proven to be discriminatory will be removed as a result of this particular bill and that even though binding polls can be held in relation to general wards and constituencies it's never been used—never ever been used."