4. Question No. 4—ImmigrationRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister of ImmigrationQuestion No. 4—Immigration4. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister of Immigration: When if ever can Palestinian New Zealanders expect her response to their repeated calls for a special humanitarian visa to bring their family members safely to New Zealand?Hon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Immigration): First let me start by acknowledging the unimaginable humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Our thoughts are with all Palestinian New Zealanders who have family and friends there. The Government along with our international partners are closely monitoring the evolving situation in Gaza. I receive weekly updates on the visas issued and have regular conversations with officials on what other countries are doing. At this time the evidence is that a special humanitarian visa is not a solution to the current crisis. For example I'm told that Canada the only country that have created a special visa has received 986 applications—on 1 January they opened that—and only 14 of those people have managed to complete secondary screening. It is heartbreaking to hear reports like the one this morning on RNZ of a man whose ex-wife and two children have visitor visas that we granted in December who have still not been able to get out of Gaza. I do not want to give false hope to people that a visa will enable them to leave Gaza. As and when the situation changes in Gaza we will reconsider our position.Ricardo Menéndez March: Which option would enable more lives to be saved: the status quo or creating a special humanitarian visa to reunite family members of Palestinian New Zealanders with those that are still in Gaza?Hon ERICA STANFORD: I'll reiterate what I said: New Zealand has already been issuing visitor visas to family members of Palestinians here in New Zealand and we have not been able to get them out. Unfortunately the situation is a border situation and simply issuing visas like the Canadians have done—like we have done—will not mean we can get people out of Gaza. As and when the situation changes in Gaza we will reconsider our position and we are monitoring the situation daily.Ricardo Menéndez March: Is she aware that since October last year only 10 visitor visa applications by Palestinians have been granted whilst 13 have been rejected and that seven times more visas are still being granted to Israeli nationals than Palestinian nationals when both of them are supposedly prioritised?Hon ERICA STANFORD: I don't know if the member has up-to-date numbers. I believe that the numbers of people who have been issued visitor visas are higher than that. The issue that we have as I've said is that people are not able to get out of Gaza. Many of the visas that we have issued are for people who are still waiting to get out and cannot get out.Ricardo Menéndez March: Has she requested advice on options to reunite family members of Palestinian New Zealanders beyond just monitoring the situation?Hon ERICA STANFORD: I have asked for that. I asked for that very early on and I was advised that we have set up a special dedicated number of staff at Immigration New Zealand who are processing visitor visas for family members. We have a special dedicated inbox. We are expediting those and we are taking the humanitarian situation into consideration when we are granting those visas. But the situation remains like the man who was on RNZ this morning who has an ex-wife and children in Gaza. We have issued them visas and they cannot leave. As and when the situation changes we will reconsider our position.Tim Costley: What is the Government doing in response to the situation in Gaza?Hon ERICA STANFORD: Immigration New Zealand has as I said a specialist team working on applications. Since 7 October we've received 71 applications from Palestinian nationals around the world. Of these we believe 15 applications are from people who to the best of our knowledge may have been in Gaza at the time of their application or shortly before lodging. We've issued seven visas to people who are immediate family members of New Zealand citizens or permanent residents and I would encourage any Palestinian New Zealander who has immediate family members in Gaza that they would like to travel to New Zealand to go to the Immigration New Zealand website to apply for a visa which will be promptly assessed by the specialist team. Unfortunately as I've said that does not guarantee them a way out of Gaza. As we have seen we have already done this and many of those people we have issued visas to are still unable to leave. The New Zealand Government has also provided a total of $15 million in humanitarian assistance including through the World Food Programme UNICEF and the International Committee of the Red Cross to address the urgent humanitarian situation in Gaza.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with MP Erica Stanford who said 14 days after the Russian invasion of Ukraine that Desperate Ukrainians in New Zealand have been unable to rescue wider family members because immigration Minister Kris Faafoi has not created a [special] pathway to let them come to New Zealand" and if so will she afford the same urgency to Palestinian New Zealanders who are urgently waiting to be reunited with their families?Hon ERICA STANFORD: I do agree with that member in Opposition and the reason I do is because those people in Ukraine were able to leave—they were able to get on a plane and get to New Zealand. The situation in Gaza is that they cannot leave and I'm not going to be issuing visas which is issuing false hope for people on a great scale who cannot leave. But as and when the situation changes we will reconsider our position.Ricardo Menéndez March: What further actions beyond monitoring the situation has the Minister explored?Hon ERICA STANFORD: As I said in my primary answer: every single week in my bag I ask for updates on the visas that have been issued to Palestinian nationals. I ask for an update on each individual family situation so that I can see who has been issued a visa and who has been able to leave. I have regular conversations with my officials on what other countries are doing which is why I was able to tell the member about the situation with the Canadian visa which is the only country in the world that has issued a humanitarian visa and has not been able to get people out. We are monitoring the situation. We are asking about what other countries are being able to do so that we can closely follow them if and when the situation changes.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with Minas Al-Ansari speaking for Kiwi Palestinians with family in Gaza who said that "Right now our family members are being killed and we are helpless to save them. One member of our community has lost 120 members of their family. If Erica Stanford this National-led government had granted special humanitarian visas early as was done for Ukraine there is absolutely no doubt lives would have been saved." and if so how many more lives need to be lost before she considers a visa?SPEAKER: No no the last part of that question is not acceptable. Just withdraw that last part because you can't ask someone to comment on a quote and then say "if so"—doesn't work. So put it grammatically correctly to the House but don't repeat the whole question. It's too long.Ricardo Menéndez March: I can cut the quote then but does she agree with Minas Al-Ansari who said "Right now our families are being killed and we are helpless to save them."—SPEAKER: Yeah we got all that; just the last part—just rephrase the very last part of the question.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with Minas Al-Ansari who said "If Erica Stanford this National-led government had granted special humanitarian visas early as was done for Ukraine"—SPEAKER: No sorry—OK look that's the end of the question. You can't rephrase it; you're not carrying on with it.Ricardo Menéndez March: Sorry there's a quote here; I'm trying to shorten it as much as I can.SPEAKER: Well this is your fourth go at it—get it right. Just take the last part off—it's pretty clear; pretty simple.Ricardo Menéndez March: Yeah I'll just repeat the quote without this last bit then: does she agree with Minas Al-Ansari speaking for Kiwi Palestinians with family in Gaza—SPEAKER: Oh sorry that's it. Finished—thank you. Move now to—Chlöe Swarbrick: Point of order Mr Speaker. How is it that a member is supposed to repeat the end of a question by reframing that whilst not offering the question in its full context?SPEAKER: Because you can't ask a question for an opinion when in fact you are finishing the question by inferring that the content is irrefutable which effectively the words "if so" do. I asked him to change it several times.Chlöe Swarbrick: I hear that Mr Speaker and I guess just for sake of clarity for the House then it would be the most kind of due process for the question in its full—SPEAKER: It's never been a problem for others to correct a small part at the end. I'm just not happy that we're now trifling with the House when other people are able to comply with those requirements.Ricardo Menéndez March: Speaking to the point of order. Sorry Mr Speaker; so just to clarify in good faith what you had asked me was to shorten the quote altogether which I tried to do. None of the quotes that I had tried to repeat while shortening it were outside of what I had repeated. So I tried to cut the second bit and just repeat the question as it was. My intention is absolutely not to trifle with the House; it is to comply with what was requested of me.SPEAKER: Well your intention is not meeting its intent. So can we just drop the "if so" part of the question.Ricardo Menéndez March: Done—I can do that.SPEAKER: Good thank you. The Hansard will record that; the Minister may like to comment.Hon ERICA STANFORD: Thank you Mr Speaker. Look I would say that of course the situation is unimaginable but I would say that unfortunately the comments that that man made are not true. We know that people in Palestine who have temporary visas to get out have not been able to get out. We granted visas in December and people still are unable to get out. It is unfortunately not a visa issue; it is a border issue and as I've said a number of times if that changes we will reconsider our position."