SpeechHARETE HIPANGO (National): Thank you Madam Chair. I'm somewhat perturbed by what I'm hearing from the Minister for Children. What I've been emphasising to the committee is that the children have to be front and centre first and foremost in relation to this debate. I've heard the Minister negating the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that we're talking to in recognising the subsequent child provision—in other words the mandatory action by Oranga Tamariki to take into custody a subsequent child of an earlier child who has been put into permanent placement—should apply to more than just a person who has been convicted of murder manslaughter or infanticide. Those provisions under the Crimes Act Minister in sections 188 to 204 include being a parent who has been convicted of these serious offences of grievous assault wounding with intent—that's of a child or a young person—injuring with intent and strangulation or suffocation. It's well-known in domestic violence by those of us who have worked in that space that any attempt at suffocating and particularly a conviction is an indication of an untimely anticipated death. We should not be reacting to a child's death in the way that Oranga Tamariki has that prompted the reviews and the investigations by not following through with the notification by whānau in relation to Malachi Subecz. So Minister—I will go on to read—we are saying that where there is a conviction of a parent who has had an earlier child placed into permanent care with regard to the subsequent child it should automatically—it should be a mandatory requirement upon Oranga Tamariki to take oversight and action and to take the subsequent child into care where the parent has been convicted of injuring by unlawful act; aggravated wounding or injury; aggravated assault; assault with intent to injure; assault on a child or by a male on a female and the list goes on Minister. I understand that child welfare law and practice is complex and I understand that the Minister does not have experience in that regard but my expectation and the expectation of members in this House and in New Zealand should be that as Minister for Children you are advocating for the interests of the child the children and the young persons not for the parent who has had a child previously placed into permanent care. That has to be the expectation and the priority for you as the Minister for children and Oranga Tamariki. Minister I was also concerned when reference was made to what the National Government did. What the National Party is doing at the moment with ACT is reiterating and reinforcing the importance that children do have that oversight and blanket of protection from the State welfare agency and organisation and the problem Minister as is well-known with recent reviews and the most recent recommendations from Dame Karen Poutasi is the mandatory action and notifications of abuse from professional organisations. This very SOP 275 is about mandatory automatic engagement by Oranga Tamariki on any subsequent child of a previous child who's in permanent placement care and custody so that the subsequent child will trigger action activate and motivate Oranga Tamariki to put that child's welfare wellbeing and best interests front first foremost and paramount before those of a parent who has a conviction not just for murder manslaughter or infanticide but for all those grievous assaults and serious assaults that are outlined in sections 188 to 204 of the Crimes Act. Minister the expectation is for you to protect our children.