Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Thank you very much. All right well I'll just make some things up seeing as no one is going to give me a copy of the bill. Thank you very much.Hon Dr Megan Woods: Gerry thought you were on Part 2.Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Gerry apparently thought we were on Part 2. We're on Part 3 of the bill Giving evidence and notice by electronic means" and I have to say Mr—sorry Madam Chair. Some habits are hard to break Madam Chair so please do forgive me for that. It is interesting that the largest and laziest Opposition in the history of the New Zealand Parliament doesn't seem to want to make any contributions on the legislation that they themselves introduced into this House and that this Government is very proud—very proud—to be progressing through the committee this afternoon and later on into this evening. Mr—sorry Madam Chair. It's been a while since we've had a presiding officer who was a woman Madam Chair and I think it is a very welcome thing so please it is just taking a wee while to reprogram.But I want to talk in particular about clause 44 and the subsections it inserts which refer to audio links and the meaning of "audio link" as defined in this bill. So we turn to the definition for example of "audiovisual link" as a starting point. The meaning of an "audiovisual link" is something that of course could be interpreted in a variety of different ways. There are many different types of audiovisual link. For example the audiovisual link in my office prompted me to come to this Chamber just a few moments ago. Let's turn to the meaning of audiovisual link according to the Electronic Interactions Reform Bill. It says an audiovisual link "means facilities that enable audio and visual communication between the Commission and a person when either or both of them are not physically present at the place specified in the notice."Of course in dealing with these clauses the word "and" is very important because an audio and visual communication is very different to simply an audio communication which of course is the previous definition in the bill. An audio link "means facilities (for example telephone facilities)"—here's an interesting question. Here's an interesting question: what about a Skype phone? This is important. The entire parliamentary complex of course has moved on to Skype phones and we have Skype phones that offer both audio and visual right? So now that's interesting isn't it? By saying "for example telephone facilities" are regarded as an audio link do we thereby preclude them from being included in the definition of an audiovisual link—an audiovisual link? In fact a Skype phone could potentially fall under both definitions and I think that's something that the committee will want to consider in great detail given that this bill is designed to deal with the change in technology that is emerging and that is continuing to emerge. What happens when these definitions are changed as a result of the evolution of technology and what happens when an audio link in fact becomes an audiovisual link?Let's go back to the definition of an audio link—I've got the members opposite on the edges of their seats with this; I know they're going to want to get into this in great detail. An audio link of course means facilities—for example a telephone—"that enable audio communication between the Commission and a person when either or both of them are not physically present at the place specified in the notice." Well the interesting thing here is that an audio link can also be used where people are present within a particular area. For example we use video conferencing to link up with a variety of different people some of whom are present and some of whom are not. So I think that creates an interesting question—an interesting question—about the definitions contained in this particular Part 3 of the Electronic Interactions Reform Bill.Look there are many other provisions. I mean Part 3 extends over several pages and I have dealt with only two very small clauses of that. I intend to scrutinise this legislation in much greater detail to ensure that what we have inherited from the previous Government is in fact in keeping with the intentions of the current Government making sure that we are delivering for New Zealanders the change that they voted for at the last election that the members opposite are still coming to terms with. So if we turn to clause 45 for example—[Time expired]"