Uffindell Sam; McAnulty KieranSAM UFFINDELL (National—Tauranga): Thank you Mr Chair—we were having a little internal discussion about who would win that call and I'm glad I did. I wanted to rise to talk on clause 205 the principles of engagement" and in paragraph (a) there it states "the entity's communication [and] communities should be clear and appropriate and recognise the different communication needs". I was wondering if the Minister would be able to expand a little bit more on that: are we talking simply mailing out are we talking about digital stuff or are we talking about forums where people can engage in that process? I mean if it is forums—I'm assuming it is because we've had a fair bit of discussion on that already—you know what is the balance that would be placed on those because we've seen already in the forum opportunities; 88000-odd submissions and not necessarily a lot of reflection on those and the acts of the community and the acts of the local councils. So if we had a feedback mechanism as is proposed through this engagement—is there a ratio or percentage of voices that the Minister would look at and consider and then move to you know potentially amend the water services entities or potentially scrap them altogether if that was what was being asked for?I note in paragraph (b) "the entity should be openly available for consumer and community feedback". I'd just like to ask—and it might seem you know a little bit sarcastic in a sense but it's not; it's a genuine question—how open is the Minister to this feedback? Because from what we've seen so far there hasn't been a lot and I think my colleague Simon Watts touched upon it earlier. We're not high on faith on this side of the House that the feedback that will come in—we've seen it with councils we've seen it from experts in the field—when it comes back from the community whether that will actually be taken on board. If I look at paragraph (d) "the entity should consider the changing needs of consumers and communities over time and ensure that engagement will be effective in the future." How confident is the Minister that as they are established that they're meeting the needs of the communities? How do the major stakeholders—what was their feedback to you Minister? Do they feel that that these entities as they begin are going to be properly represented? And as you're going through the principles of engagement; what sort of time frame are we talking about with this engagement? And my colleague touched upon a little bit earlier—but you know one should reasonably expect it to be fairly regular. We heard five years termed "earlier"—I mean it is an extremely long time between drinks. But if we could get a bit of clarity around you know when you're outlining the principles of engagement how regularly are you intending to engage or send out these communications to communities to allow them to then feed back in on how they feel about everything?Paragraph (e) there under clause 205: "the entity should prioritise the importance of consumers and community issues to ensure that the entity is engaging with issues that are important to its consumers and communities." What is the Minister's take on you know issues such as governance such as ownership such as equality? I kind of get the feeling reading through this like I'm reading back through Animal Farm and we're all equal but just some are a little bit more equal than others. Minister those are my questions to you and I'd be very interested to hear your response in time.Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Associate Minister of Local Government): If any students of politics wish to see and attempt to filibuster they only need to look at that last speech—just simply reading what was in the bill and then asking a question as we go through. But I'll go through: he summed it up when he said "I assume it's forum because we've had a lot of discussion on this already". That's correct we have covered this in great detail. The question about paragraph (b) how open is the Minister to this feedback? Well it's not actually feedback to the Minister; it's feedback to the entities and they will be incredibly open because they are required to engage in a manner in which is suitable for those communities.In reference to the five years—just a point of clarification that's not the time frame for the engagement; that was the time frame for the review that is set down in here. And specifically to Mr Watts' question: the Government's Supplementary Order Paper strengthens the role of the forums to ensure that engagement is sound and genuine."