Mallard Trevor: Taxation (KiwiSaver and Company Tax RateAmendments) Bill — Second Reading In Committee Third Reading 
Mallard Trevor: Taxation (KiwiSaver and Company Tax RateAmendments) Bill — Second Reading In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:639;Page:9439] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development) 
: 
 I thank the co-leader of the Maori Party for her comments and for what I perceived to be general support for the legislation even if she says it does not go far enough. I think that is the summary of what I took from her comments because she indicated that as far as they went the company tax rate changes and the KiwiSaver enhancements were good things. I agree with her on that. I disagree with her final point. My view is that it is appropriate to keep a difference between the rate of a benefit and the rate of the minimum wage. I think if we are to encourage people to go to work we have to accept that going to work costs and that that should be recognised as part of our remuneration system. But generally I thank her for her comments. 
I also say that we should be able to work together on ensuring that Maori are involved in KiwiSaver to the greatest extent possible. I think that given the way it works with people going to new jobs and with people having job changes Maori are likely to be disproportionately enrolled in the scheme as a starting point. Part of our challenge I think is to encourage them to stay enrolled and not to opt out. But also we need to look at people who are in jobs and staying in jobs and to work on ways to encourage them to join up. Frankly—and I agree with Ms Turia on the Maori mortality statistics—there is not a fair deal for Maori from superannuation given the way it works because the collection rates are not nearly as high as for other people as a result of the shorter lifespans of Maori. The difference with KiwiSaver is that the money put into the scheme will stay with the family; it will stay with the estate. Until we get the gap closed so to speak—and we did quite a lot of work on that together in the past—that will provide an equity for the family. Having that transfer I think is useful. 
But the key will be to make sure that people go into the KiwiSaver scheme. The test I have been doing to gauge the attractiveness of the scheme is to take a green $20 note and say to people that if they can get one of these each week then the Government will put another one on top of it and the employer—with a 100 percent Government subsidy actually—will put— 
Chris Tremain 
: Up to $500. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: We are talking about $20 with a 100 percent subsidy on $20. The member knows that. He has a reasonable reputation in some areas but not in mathematics; we are talking about a $20 contribution. And that is the nicest thing I have said about a Tory for a long time—that the member has a reputation for being good in some areas. 
I will go back to Tariana Turia’s point. If we can take $20 from a person $20 from the taxpayer and $20 from the employer—totally subsidised—then that is $60 a week. That is over $3000 a year sitting in a fund before any interest goes on to it—before any returns go into it—and that is a nest egg that builds. People as they become more Internet savvy will be able to check on it each week and watch their money go up. People will get statements and they will see some real returns. That is positive. 
I turn now to the National Party and I say to its members that I am looking forward to sending Bill English’s speech on this bill to every employer in my electorate—the bit where he says that National will vote against a cut in company tax. The National Party! 
Darren Hughes 
: Unbelievable! 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Well no it is believable. When was the last time the National Party voted for a cut in the company tax rate? 
Darren Hughes 
: The 1960s. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No I do not think it was. I do not think the company tax rates were cut in the 1960s. I think it was before I was born. It is really ancient ancient history. In fact I have a real question—and Mr Dunne may know the answer to this. Has the National Party ever in its history since the 1930s voted for a reduction in the rate of company tax? Never! Never in its life! In 1988—and I can remember back as far as that; I was about David Cunliffe’s age at the time—National voted against that. 
National used to be a party that supported business. It used to be a great party. It used to be the party of Holyoake and of Marshall. It had a history of supporting business and doing things for business. It has been a party with a history of calling for tax cuts for companies and voting for them. If I were outside the Parliament I could call that hypocritical but I am not so I will not. 
Hon Damien O'Connor 
: An “h”. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: It is a big “H” word. The big “H” word is another one actually. It stands for “Helen” in my case so I will not say it at all. 
I ask National members why they do not just vote for the second reading of this bill. Why do they not vote for the company tax rate cuts at the Committee stage? They may want to vote against some of the other bits. I welcome this. I thank them for it— 
Craig Foss 
: Where’s the money for the programme? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I say that as far as Craig Foss is concerned the employers in his electorate will be receiving copies of Bill English’s speech too—and that turkey will have— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No. The member will not use nicknames or any other names. He will withdraw. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: We are not allowed to call members turkeys? That is a new one. I withdraw. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you.