Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18457] 
5.  
RON MARK (NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Is he satisfied with police response times and does he stand by his statement that all staff who are on patrol are available to attend general duties call-outs? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 I am able to advise the member that I am satisfied with the assurances I have received from the Commissioner of Police on these matters. If the member has any information to the contrary I am happy to give an undertaking to refer the information to the commissioner. 
Ron Mark 
: Why on 4 July 2004 when an emergency call was lodged regarding an abduction of a child were three general duties police units that were already engaged and attending priority two tasks pulled from those jobs then redirected to attend that call when there were three traffic units on duty in the vicinity? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I have been advised that two of the vehicles were on the other side of the city and that one was at Papanui. So the police made the best call they could at that time. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: Has the Minister had a thorough investigation conducted by the Commissioner of Police into the allegations raised by Ron Mark yesterday? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Yesterday I was asked whether highway patrol units were sitting on the side of the road logged out of service and not listening to their radios at the same time as the abduction was taking place. I can tell the member and the House that after a thorough investigation the Commissioner of Police released a media statement yesterday clearly setting out the events as they really happened. I have been advised that the member’s information was wrong when he claimed that highway patrols were sitting at the side of the road as the police investigation shows that highway patrol units were not even rostered on duty at the time the incident took place. They were not scheduled to start work until 1 p.m.—nearly an hour after the emergency calls were received. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Who is right: the Commissioner of Police who told the Law and Order Committee that the issue of response capacity to 111 calls will not be covered by the 111 review; or the Minister of Police who issued a press release stating that it will be? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The member must realise that since the review was started many things have been added to it. I think the member will find that I am right. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thought the Minister said in his answer that something had been added to the review. That appeared to me to directly address the question. 
Ron Mark 
: How many police were deployed on traffic duties in the northern communications area on 10 October at 9 p.m. when Iraena Asher made her first 111 call and why was one of those units not dispatched to her aid the first time the police were called that night—that being one of three telephone conversations the police had in relation to her that night? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The police have already said they made a terrible mistake and the review is going ahead looking at that issue. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There you have a very good example of this Minister in action in Parliament when it comes to question time. He was asked this question yesterday as to the number of police and he said: “The member needs to put down a specific question on that and I will give him a specific answer.” Well he was asked the same question again 24 hours later and he still did not answer the question as to the number of police. He mentioned a review. This is pathetic and no Western democracy should have to put up with it particularly when we have already had a series of points of orders today about his performance. Here he is having had 24 hours’ notice and having been asked the same question and there is no answer. When will you make him do his job? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well if that were the original question that would have been the case. No question on notice has been put down on that issue. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Are you saying now that that is his defence despite his not seeking it as his defence—although it was his defence yesterday? When asked the question yesterday he said the member would have to put a specific question down on notice. He did not seek that defence today; he just got up and said a review is under way. In short we do not know how many police were involved in the northern region incident which is what my colleague asked yesterday and today. That is the point made by the Opposition in this House—that we are not getting in any way a responsible reaction from this Minister on a matter that is part of his portfolio and his responsibilities. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Asking a supplementary question yesterday then a supplementary question today is not putting down a question on notice. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You can seek to put that up as some sort of defence for this Minister’s incompetence but it will not do because he was asked this question and I want you to address it in respect of my point of order. He was asked how many policemen were involved at that point in time on that night—at 9 p.m. I think it was. That was the question he was asked by Ron Mark today and he still has not answered it. He has said there has been a review or there is a review going on but why cannot he just give us the answer or better still say: “As an incompetent Minister I’d never know and I won’t know.”? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No because the Minister decided to answer the question in the way that he did. He did address the question. That was not the original question asked. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have ruled on this matter. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Ron Mark asked in respect of his last supplementary question as to how many policemen were involved in the northern region incident yes or no. That is what he asked—how many were involved. He does not have to put it down in writing— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am sorry: yes or no as to how many were involved? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Did he ask that question or not—that is what I am asking the House and you Mr Speaker. Did he put that question to the Minister yes or no? And he did. So why have we not got an answer or some sort of indication as to when we might get an answer. But for him to respond by saying that there is a review under way without any attempt to answer the question is what this Minister is getting away with day in day out. I say that if he was not getting this kind of assistance from the Chair he would have been gone a long time ago. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will sit down. I do not give anyone assistance from the Chair. I think I am pretty fair in that regard. And I give a lot of protection to the member. The member will stand withdraw and apologise for that remark. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well it had better not be contesting that point. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: With respect this Minister has today been the subject of a series of points of order. He survived that—I do not know how. Then he comes to the critical point that relates to a person whom we have never heard of since that person made three phone calls one night. The least this Minister could do is apprise himself of the facts particularly when he has had 24 hours’ notice. Even if he fails to do that he should at least tell the House that he will find the information or do something to answer the member’s question. But he has done no such thing. The  
Hansard  
will show that he refers to a review. We know that that review has been going on for months. How is that answer helpful to Parliament in question time? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: All I can do is to repeat what I said before. I make this point again. I have taken advice on this matter and the question that is down on notice is not that particular question. 
Ron Mark 
: Is it not a fact that the Government’s policy of ring fencing police traffic patrols is the reason that the first available police car was not sent to either the abduction case which happened in Christchurch in July 2004 or the Iraena Asher case which happened 3 months later in October 2004—a young lady whom this nation has never heard of since? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: No. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Just in regard to the answers that Mr Hawkins has given to successive questions today can you confirm that Speaker’s ruling 145/1 would apply and probably with disastrous consequences for the Minister? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No because for the last question for example the Minister gave an absolute answer by saying “No” then sat down. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Speaker’s ruling does not actually require you to do anything. It states that you do not arbitrate but rather the public does. I am just interested to know whether you personally thought that the public opinion on Mr Hawkins’ performance would be disastrous. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No that is hypothetical. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am asking this question to get your considered opinion because it may prevent the situation that members on the Opposition benches have where we tend to lose very valuable supplementary— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is the member making a point of order? 
Ron Mark 
: The point of order is this. I want to be sure that I understand your ruling correctly. If a member asks a Minister a question in this House about a very high-profile public case that has resulted in a national inquiry for which he has brought in overseas experts the question is recorded in  
Hansard 
 if the Minister’s answer is to ask him tomorrow in writing and he would answer it and if the member then asks the question the next day and still does not get an answer from that Minister are you ruling that that practice is acceptable in 2005 in a democratic country? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: The member is beginning to trifle with the Chair. You have ruled on this matter now I think some seven times by my count. If the member cannot by this stage of his parliamentary career learn the difference between a question given on notice and a question asked as a supplementary question it is time he gave up asking both. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Speaker does not judge a Minister’s performance; other members do. Neither the Speaker nor a member can tell a Minister how to answer a question. It is up to the Minister as long as he or she is relevant.