Prime Willow-Jean; McAnulty Kieran; Reti ShaneHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour): Thank you Madam Chair. I have two contributions. I won't be able to do them in the five minutes so I'm seeking two separate calls.The first one is on the title Pae Ora (Disestablishment of Māori Health Authority) Amendment Bill". Why didn't the Minister put the words in there: "Te Aka Whai Ora Pae Ora (Disestablishment of Māori Health Authority) Amendment Bill"? Names are important. Symbolism is important. As we traversed last night the gifting of the name "Te Aka Whai Ora" and what it actually meant what it symbolises doesn't even get a mention in your title. Last night the Minister said that he spoke with our whaea Moe Milne about the name. I got a text from her: "I did not meet with him. I did not discuss the name with him neither did I agree to our committee disestablishing the name." I don't think I can say the last word in Māori because it will be translated to something unparliamentary.Further to that this is about respect for our kupu Māori our ingoa Māori. "Te Aka Whai Ora"—doesn't even have the guts to put it in the title. But that's what you're doing; you're disestablishing it. Now I want to read from the evidence of my uncle Waihoroi Shortland which he has filed with the Waitangi Tribunal. He says "When I look at Te Aka Whai Ora I take the notion quite literally"—CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): Can I just stop the member there. This is about the title and commencement. I don't think we should be traversing what's actually being put to the Waitangi Tribunal.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: This is about the title. This is about the words "Te Aka Whai Ora".CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): Yeah. This is about the title and commencement of this bill so we'll keep it really narrow.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: So my contribution has been a challenge to the Minister. Why has he not included in the title the words "Te Aka Whai Ora"? I am giving the Minister information about the words "Te Aka Whai Ora" which I am arguing should have been included in the title and it is not.It says "I take the notion quite literally. In Ngāti Hine tradition 'te aka kūmara' is that part of the plant that ensures"—CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): So I'm going to stop the member. Look the Waitangi Tribunal is a separate matter. It's something that we shouldn't be bringing into the title. You can talk about the member can talk about the title and commencement but not directly quoting from the tribunal as it happens.Shanan Halbert: Point of order. Madam Chair I'll seek your guidance on this one. While acknowledging your comments regarding the live Waitangi Tribunal hearing I take the point of the Hon Peeni Henare in this who identified that for the commencement date that we're discussing the question arises: what's the rush for the Minister to push this bill through the House?CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): OK so got that point. Mr Halbert the question of timing has been asked around the Waitangi Tribunal. It's the content of the Waitangi Tribunal that is not something that we want to be discussing as part of this piece of legislation. Just a moment. I'm just actually getting some advice here. So the Waitangi Tribunal is not a court of record but it would be appropriate to avoid directly quoting that material. Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Is that a Standing Order?CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): That's my ruling.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: You're ruling that we cannot quote evidence that has been filed with the Waitangi Tribunal ever?CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): No it's today while things are live with the Waitangi Tribunal. The Waitangi Tribunal is not a court of record but it would be appropriate to avoid directly quoting the material that's within that so I'm not going to allow people to quote the material. This is simply about the title and commencement and we acknowledge that there is another process going on alongside this but this is the title and commencement of this bill. It's fair to acknowledge that the timing of these two things are coinciding but we will not have material from the Waitangi Tribunal.Shanan Halbert: Speaking to the point of order I want to be clear on this because while I acknowledge your point around the content of the hearing before us I do want to ask for your guidance that we are able to reference in this discussion the importance of the Waitangi Tribunal hearing relevant to this legislation that is being rammed through the House on this particular day. The question arises and the point here is: why is the Minister pushing this through at this particular time when in two days we would be able to go through that process of the hearing?CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): So the answer is as I first said you can reference the fact that there's a hearing happening. This is about commencement and timing and that's fine but do not reference any content of the hearing itself.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: So in my contribution I am making a contribution directly to the title of the legislation. My points have been about why the Minister has not included the actual words "Te Aka Whai Ora" which is the name—the name—of the thing we are disestablishing. He has not put that in the title and what I was trying to provide to the Minister for his consideration because it's not too late Minister to make changes—it's not too late; you can do that. I tried to give you an example—CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): The Minister.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: —the Minister an example—of rich kōrero about what "aka" means and what "aka" means to a tribe like Ngāti Hine who relies on kūmara for our survival and one of our most esteemed orators leaders within Te Ao Māori and mātauranga Māori offers explanations—deep meaningful explanations and symbolism—of what an "aka" means. We are discussing the title to this legislation and what this legislation's title is doing is disestablishing and it just says here "the Māori Health Authority" but what it is disestablishing is "Te Aka Whai Ora" and I am making references to those that gave that name that gifted that name and the meaning and symbolism within it but also those who have offered other kōrero about why "aka" is so important when we look at the health and wellbeing of our people. I'm not going to debate on the use of or bringing into the contribution—Madam Chair?CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): The Hon Willow-Jean Prime.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Thank you Madam Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): And please—specific questions.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Yep so I have—CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): You've been very good in the last couple of minutes about specific questions—Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Yes there are questions there for the Minister to answer and I would implore him before the end of this debate to go and read that evidence that I cannot read for you here.So now I'll come on to the commencement date of this legislation.Hon Andrew Bayly: Oh very good!Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Oh did you not like the last part? Do you think we should not talk about the title? Do you think we should not talk about having Te Aka Whai Ora in the title? Did you think that five minutes was a waste of time Mr Bayly?Hon Andrew Bayly: I think you should be relevant to the topic.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Oh right. Moving on to the commencement date and I'll try to ignore the interjections from the other side and the disrespect towards us who are doing this under urgency.So now I'll come to the commencement date. This is passing under urgency—all stages no select committee process. Te Aka Whai Ora the Pae Ora legislation is something that took years—years—to put in place. There were multiple numerous consultations with all parties through all the processes available. It was a recommendation of the health and disability review. It was a recommendation of the Waitangi Tribunal that we establish a Māori health authority. And here in 24 hours through an urgent process you are rushing this through—no consultation according to your departmental disclosure statement. I can't even see a regulatory impact statement anywhere on this bill—so rushing it.But when we look at the commencement date this isn't actually going to commence until 30 June. So why Minister—and I know you're going to just get up and dismiss this as "I've answered it in other sections." but this is under title and commencement—are we passing this under urgency when it's not going to take effect until 30 June? That would have allowed ample time in your rushed processes to have a select committee process to stop and do some consultation. But no we're rushing it through today because as I said last night there's something taking place or should have been taking place tomorrow: a planeload of the Minister's relations are coming down to present to the Waitangi Tribunal their submissions—their opposition—on the disestablishment of Te Aka Whai Ora—his own hapū Te Kapotai a named claimant in that urgency hearing to take place tomorrow.Is the Minister confident that that hearing tomorrow that should take place tomorrow has absolutely no bearing on the decision to pass this through urgency all stages last night and today? Can he hand on heart say that that wasn't a single factor in the decision to do that right now? The Minister says this has been on notice for some time—that they intend to do this—but not once did the Crown file in the Waitangi Tribunal that it would be happening right now because if they had been honest and if that was the direction then that would have been filed very early on in the proceedings but it wasn't. It took everybody by surprise last week to find out that it was going to be introduced and done under urgency this week. It leaves us with no other conclusion except that this has been done deliberately to undermine the Waitangi Tribunal to undermine the Minister's own relations who are named claimants in that claim.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): We're not going to make personal comments about the Minister. You can talk about the Government's intentions but no personal comments about the Minister. Thank you.Hon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Sure. The Government which this Minister is part of which this Minister is responsible for—he is the leader of this; he is shepherding this legislation through. It is not coming into effect until 30 June. So why are we doing it today?Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour): Point of order. I deliberately waited until the end of the contribution from the Hon Willow-Jean Prime and I will note before I make this point of order that the advice that Madam Chair provided in regard to the Waitangi Tribunal was accepted by the member and she followed that advice through the remainder of her contribution. But I think it is important for the committee's understanding if you could please provide further explanation of that ruling. Specifically it would be helpful I think if you could refer to the Standing Order or indeed the Speaker's ruling that that's based on because there does seem to be some concern around the conflation between the courts which is clearly not in question and the inclusion of the Waitangi Tribunal which came as somewhat of a surprise. Given the nature of this debate which does appear to have some time left in it I think it would be useful for all members to understand the basis of that please.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): Can I come back to you on that. I'm just going to take the Hon Dr Shane Reti.Hon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Health): Thank you Madam Chair. Just to speak to why Te Aka Whai Ora doesn't appear in the title it's because it doesn't appear in the Pae Ora legislation either and the amendment bill has to refer to the legal title in the statute."