5. Question No. 5—FinanceHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour—Wigram) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 5—Finance5. Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour—Wigram) to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by her statement that I can swear better times are ahead"; if so how many additional people will be unemployed in 2025 according to her Budget?Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): To the first part of the question yes. It is a particularly difficult time right now for New Zealanders as high interest rates are required to bring down the rampant inflation that flourished in 2022 and 2023 but the economy will pick up and better times are ahead. To the second part of the question there is no information in the Budget update itself about the number of people forecast to be unemployed. It does show forecasts however of the rate of unemployment which has been rising since 2021. However to be helpful I am advised that Treasury's background forecasts not contained within the Budget show that the number of people unemployed in the September quarter of 2025 is expected to be 1000 fewer than the number of people unemployed in the September quarter of 2024 and that after that the number of people unemployed continues to decline each quarter out to the end of the forecast period. I can swear better times are ahead.Hon Dr Megan Woods: How can better times be ahead for the 204000 people who will be on jobseeker support when those people see no benefit of the tax cuts and there is nothing in the Budget for beneficiaries?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well as I've just articulated if the member listened the number of people unemployed is set to decline between the September quarter of this year and next year which is good news I would have thought by any read. I think perhaps what the member may be referring to is the spectacular achievement of the outgoing Government which managed to have job seeker numbers increasing even while unemployment was reducing. Well on this side of the House we view it as an achievement to support people into work and that is what Louise Upston is working very hard on doing.Hon Dr Megan Woods: Are better times ahead for the approximately 140000 children who are currently in poverty and the additional 20000 children who will be in poverty as a result of her Budget?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well when you look at the child poverty report it shows quite clearly that the rate of child poverty by one measure will reduce because of the initiatives in our Budget. What it also shows is that when you deliver tax relief to lower and middle income families with children those households have more income as a result and that is good for those kids. I just wish members opposite weren't so hard-hearted that they voted against that relief.Hon David Seymour: Can the Minister confirm that expenditure on welfare excluding New Zealand super is $18 billion or thereabouts and only the Labour Party would describe that as nothing in the Budget for beneficiaries?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well on that side of the House with the Labour Party they believe that the sign of success—SPEAKER: No no no—the Minister can't answer for another party. The Minister can only answer the first part of that question.Hon NICOLA WILLIS: A very good question. Actually on this side of the House what we believe is that the sign of success is how many people you help into employment not simply how much you spend on servicing their unemployment.Hon Dr Megan Woods: Are better times ahead for first-home buyers when their hopes of buying a home have been stripped by this Budget?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I completely reject the characterisation in the member's question.Hon Dr Megan Woods: Are better times ahead when the New Zealand Construction Industry Council's Tommy Honey has said "We're going to see a lot more construction companies at risk of going to the wall if they can't get the work that they've been getting over the last few years."?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well there are a couple of things going on here. The first is that as the member knows interest rates have been high for a year. That has a very real impact on those in sectors that rely on borrowing. Now what is important is that we do our bit to ensure that we're not adding fuel to the inflation fire as that Government did so rampantly causing interest rates to go higher than would have otherwise been the case. The second thing—Hon Dr Duncan Webb: Point of order. The member has had swipes at the former Government's policies throughout her answers and that is just another one and it's entirely out of order.SPEAKER: No there are two aspects. I've looked at this quite extensively. Reporting of historic facts or factual information is not unreasonable in an answer but when it comes to answering for another party or making a suggestion about another party's policy that is unreasonable.Hon Dr Duncan Webb: She said "rampant".SPEAKER: I'm not going to rule the word "rampant" out of order but I would suggest that the Minister speaks about her own Government's performance more than a previous Government's performance.Hon NICOLA WILLIS: So as I said two things going on: one you've got to get the fundamentals right which is actually about getting low stable inflation so interest rates can decline which helps everyone in the economy. Sorry to give you an economics lecture but that is the truth of it. The second thing is about the Government's role in infrastructure investment. I'm advised that over the next five years we will be investing $68 billion in infrastructure. Here's a critical difference: when we talk about investing in infrastructure we don't mean visualisations of a light rail train on the front page of the New Zealand Herald. What we mean is actual people in hard hats with actual diggers and spades repairing potholes fixing roads and getting things built.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could the Minister of Finance confirm that if house prices are stabilised inflation and interest rates come down and more homes are built then it's very likely that first-home buyers will be massively advantaged?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I can confirm exactly that and what the Deputy Prime Minister conveys is a much deeper understanding of the housing market than the members opposite who thought they'd fix it by building 100000 KiwiBuild homes. Well how did that work out?Hon Dr Megan Woods: Are the only group that can expect better times ahead landlords who get a $2.9 billion tax cut?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well the member would do well to dwell on the facts in my little tax book which says 3.5 million households benefit from tax relief and she voted against it."