Mahuta NanaiaHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour—Hauraki-Waikato): Kia ora Mr Chair. Thank you for that—excellent. I want to spend some time on clauses 157 and 158. Clause 157(1) specifically refers to: The owners of 1 or more parcels of Māori freehold land may appoint a governance body for those parcels …" with the exception of whenua tāpui. Minister you did highlight that in your opening statements but it is useful to go through and highlight what whenua tāpui is. It includes: (a) a papakāinga housing site: (b) a marae: (c) a meeting place: (d) a recreation or sports ground: (e) a bathing place: (f) a church site: (g) a building site: (h) an urupā: (i) a landing place: (j) a fishing ground: (k) a spring well catchment area or other source of water supply: (l) a timber reserve: (m) a place of cultural or historical interest: (n) a place of scenic interest: (o) a place of special significance according to tikanga Māori: (p) a wāhi tapu or wāhi tupuna …". So that is a very important exception in terms of where a governance body can exercise its role.However I want to focus specifically on clause 158. It seems to me that if people just pragmatically accept that Māori trusts—those whenua whānau trusts—are operating well they will continue to operate well. But for those smaller groupings of landholding interests and collective owners who are not organised who do not have a governance arrangement who do not have the capacity to pull themselves together—what might clause 158 provide? I know—potentially for the Māori Trustee to come and scoop along all these interests and act on their behalf. That might sound somewhat sceptical and it is intended to be because if there was a concern out in our community about an entity that has the capacity right now to shadow or oversee the interests of unorganised groupings of interest it is the Māori Trustee. It is ready now. It is a nationwide entity. Again some people may perceive that as a bit sceptical but if you look at clause 158(1)(e) and (f) "an existing statutory body" definitely would apply to the Māori Trustee. It says as much in clause 158(3) that follows and it is named. "[A] representative entity" could be another organisation—let us say an iwi authority or the like—but if you look at the way in which Māori landholding interests are being coordinated often they are being coordinated by Māori corporate bodies or the Māori Trustee. So that gives me cause to ask Minister Flavell whether there is an assurance that this legislation has not been designed around building a big mogul of an operation of the Māori Trustee and that the Māori Land Service is not set up to help that aspiration. It is somewhat cheeky I know but you can see all the dynamics of the perception. Does the perception Minister reflect the reality? If not I am happy to take a clear assurance in the Committee. But it is very evident to people who are following this debate and wondering about what is underpinning some of the aspects of this particular legislation that might disenfranchise them from their interests.We did also hear people who were happy to live the rest of their lives knowing that their whenua tupuna was not going to be utilised and was going to be there for time immemorial. OK that is that. But for those groupings of interests who might think that they would want to do something I think they will be shaking in their boots at the prospect of Big Brother the Māori Trustee coming alongside and saying: "Boy have we got a deal for you. We can make it all really very simple. All you have to do is sign over your interests to us and we will take care of it. No worries—just 'spray and walk away.' " Ha ha! It is pretty much like that. So Minister it would be good to get an assurance. Perception is not always the reality but Minister it is very evident that this is one of the clauses that creates a perception and a nervousness that the possibility of the Māori Trustee overplaying an interest on behalf of unorganised Māori land owners could actually overshadow I guess some of some of the intended benefits of the legislation."