7. Question No 7—HealthHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour) to the Associate Minister of HealthQuestion No 7—Health7. Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour) to the Associate Minister of Health: Does she stand by her answer to my oral question No. 8 on 23 July confirming that the vast majority of heated tobacco products sold in 2022 were by Philip Morris and by the decision to grant a $216 million tax break for heated tobacco products?Hon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health): Before I respond to the question I would just like to take a moment to acknowledge the quit-smoking service providers that I met with across the country last week.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Answer the question.Hon CASEY COSTELLO: They are the contributors—[Interruption] I think it's appropriate—DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Minister is about to answer the question.Hon CASEY COSTELLO: And I would like to acknowledge their hard work to achieve the smoking rates success we have. It was the first time they'd ever met with a Minister so I thought it was good to acknowledge their hard work. In regards to the member's first question about standing by my answer of 23 July yes.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Does she stand by her view that heated tobacco is definitely a lot less harmful" and is it a coincidence that a Philip Morris strategy document includes plans to promote heated tobacco as a harm minimisation tool despite the total lack of evidence that it helps people quit?Hon Shane Jones: Making it up.DEPUTY SPEAKER: That's unnecessary Mr Jones.Hon CASEY COSTELLO: Yet again the member reads a news story and decides I care one iota about what the tobacco industry feels or believes. Our stance has been unequivocal: this Government wants smokers to quit smoking to reduce harm from smoking and to achieve the smoke-free 2025 target. For long-term smokers that requires access to safer nicotine products and from the meeting with the quit-smoking providers there is much opportunity to encourage those who have previously been unable to quit to try again and alternative products will be a tool to achieve that.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: So does she stand by her statement that she has no relationship to the tobacco industry and if so how does she explain having been chair of an organisation identified as a partner in a Philip Morris strategy document and now implementing the objectives of that document in her role as Minister?Hon CASEY COSTELLO: I think we are conflating so many issues here that it's almost time to get dizzy. I can understand why the member doesn't want us associated with that organisation because they stand for lower taxes less waste and more accountability. We are committed to achieving the smoke-free target. We will do so. It is absolutely our duty to meet the smoke-free 2025 target.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: What actions will she take as Minister to address concerns that commitments in the New Zealand First and National Party coalition agreement on tobacco arose from the actions planned in the Philip Morris strategy document?Hon CASEY COSTELLO: The actions I will take will achieve the Smokefree 2025 target.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is she going to have regard to the four-decade-old anti-smoking campaigners ASH and the very esteemed Professor Beaglehole or someone who puts out an incoherent press release like today where she can't even spell the word "in thrall" properly or its meaning and gets all the mathematics wrong?Hon CASEY COSTELLO: Yes I will take good notice of the work done by ASH and their true dedication beyond soundbites and virtue signalling to achieve a really important target of Smokefree 2025.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: So are New Zealanders expected to believe it's a mere coincidence that her actions in Government are in lockstep with the objectives of a Philip Morris strategy document?Hon CASEY COSTELLO: The New Zealand public should believe that this Government is committed to achieving smoke-free 2025 and we will deliver on that commitment.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question?DEPUTY SPEAKER: I accept the Minister has—just a moment Rt Hon Winston Peters—answered the question a number of times. There's a Cabinet Manual and the Minister has been answering the questions and it seems to me that the repetitive questions to the Minister about this are starting to become a little bit too much. So Rt Hon Winston Peters did you have a question or a point of order?Hon Dr Duncan Webb: Point of order Madam Speaker.DEPUTY SPEAKER: I'm just checking because I think the Rt Hon Winston Peters had a point of order.Rt Hon Winston Peters: No no; supplementary question.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Oh OK so I'll take the point of order.Hon Dr Duncan Webb: With the utmost respect Madam Speaker the job of the Opposition is to choose their questions and they shouldn't be edited by anyone.DEPUTY SPEAKER: I'm not editing the questions; I'm just saying that I think that particular question has been asked a number of times now this afternoon. It's becoming repetitive.Hon Dr Duncan Webb: And that's for the member to decide.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes well the member obviously didn't give another answer to that because it's been asked several times.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister whether it's a chronological fact that by the looks of this report Philip Morris put out a document over eight years ago at which time that was to be followed by a then coalition where Labour was passing the law on this very matter about which she now complains?DEPUTY SPEAKER: I'm not sure that the Minister has any responsibility for what happened back in the coalition with Labour. So—Rt Hon Winston Peters: Point of order—point of order. She's got responsibility for a present complaint being made by Ayesha Verrall right here in this House and I'm just putting the record straight.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well I think that's the record now; the Minister has no responsibility for answering that.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Thank you Madam Speaker. Is acting contrary to official information laws as the Ombudsman has found; not taking challenging interviews on this topic; and choosing to evade with repetitive answers questions in this Parliament the behaviour of a Minister who has nothing to hide?Hon CASEY COSTELLO: The allegation being made there—I completely reject the premise of the question. I have not evaded media interviews. The fact that she has—I have given numerous interviews; I have been on television numerous times. This topic has been traversed to the full extent. It has become distracting from the objective of this Government which is to deliver smoke-free 2025.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you and on that basis if the member has a different question we will take it but I'm not taking any more questions on that front. The Minister has been very clear in that answer.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Point of order Madam Speaker. In my view it is my right as a member of Parliament to be able to choose my own questions to be able to repeat questions if I wish because that may at times—and has with this Minister at times—elicit different answers. This is a House where we should be free to investigate whether ministerial powers have been used in a way that promotes the interests of tobacco companies.DEPUTY SPEAKER: The member can ask her supplementary questions. All I'm saying is if the same question is going to be asked a number of times then you can't expect a new answer from the Minister if she doesn't wish to. OK so ask your question.Simon Court: Madam Speaker speaking to the point of order is it not correct that it's at the discretion of the Speaker in terms of Standing Order 397 whether a member is granted a supplementary question?DEPUTY SPEAKER: No the member is entitled to her supplementary questions at the discretion of the Speaker. I have basically said that if the Minister has already felt that she's given an answer to a question that's the same as what it was before then it's up to the Minister's discretion whether she answers that question.Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall: Does the Minister feel any obligation to take further steps to show to the people of New Zealand that she has not been influenced by the tobacco industry?Hon CASEY COSTELLO: I have taken further steps in that I have made a genuine commitment and undertaking that I have had no association with the tobacco industry. The fact that the member refuses to believe that is not my problem."