McKee Nicole; Davis KelvinNICOLE McKEE (ACT): Thank you Madam Chair. I am interested in the Minister's response there because I find it quite contradictory. I implore you to seek further information about the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) that my colleague Karen Chhour has put to the House because how the Minister has portrayed it is not what the SOP actually is. When the Minister stands and says that the crimes that have been read out by me—and I have not read them all out—are abhorrent the fact is that the Minister is saying to this committee and to New Zealand after we've had such horrid incidents occur with our children including the deaths of our children that it's OK for a person to make a mistake in their youth. We get that and we think that it is as well. What we don't understand is why the Government would say that it's actually OK for a person who has had a child removed by Oranga Tamariki to then go on potentially and if they commit these crimes from sections 188 to 204 of the Crimes Act some of which I've read out and which include intent to injure suffocation using a firearm against a family member and a whole range of really awful things that do happen in homes—that that's OK? I don't understand why the Government believes that it's OK if a person has already had a child removed and then later on whether it be three years or whether it be 20 years later on they commit one of these heinous crimes against one of our children—that's OK? That just does not make sense. When we're trying to look after our kids and when we're looking at the harm that is happening it does not make sense. All that the provision on SOP 275 does is say that if a person has lost a child to Oranga Tamariki and has then gone on at some time—and they don't have to Minister. That's the thing: if they don't commit these crimes then they don't come under this regime and they can continue to have their children and keep their children because they're not committing these heinous crimes. But what happens Minister is that by not putting this in there we're saying it's OK—it's OK to go ahead and suffocate your children to beat your children and to threaten your children. That's what you're saying because you're not allowing this to go through as part of the bill and I find that personally sad—sad for our tamariki sad for the future and sad for how we go about trying to fix the problem that we have with our youth of today if we cannot or if we refuse to protect them. Karen Chhour's SOP 275 wants to put in added protections for our children and if parents are good parents they won't come under this regime because they won't be trying to attempt to kill their children. What the change is that the Government wants to do is to say that Unless a child is dead"—unless they're already dead—"we won't take them away." That in itself is sad and I don't agree with what the Minister has referred to in the way of what this SOP is trying to do. It's not stopping any person from being a parent at any time unless they commit these heinous crimes and I would implore the Government to support this to protect our children fully and to go about making sure that the future of New Zealand's kids will be to grow up in a violence-free home because the Government of the day has allowed clauses from Supplementary Order Paper 275 in to protect them. Minister please have a read of SOP 275 because how you have portrayed it is not how it's written on the Supplementary Order Paper. Hon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Children): While assault offences against children and young people are serious—and the ones that were actually read out are very serious—the inclusion of these offences within the scope of the provisions would raise similar issues to those that currently impact on the provisions. Social workers currently have the tools and powers to be able to respond if they consider that there are risks to the safety and wellbeing of any child. Social workers are able to consider prior convictions or allegations of abuse that a parent or an adult in the household may have."