Cunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeCunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 10 July 2013. Volume:692;Page:11857. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]12.Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour—New Lynn)to theMinister of Revenue: How much to date has been spent on consulting costs for the IRD Business Transformation programme?Hon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Revenue):The cost for the period 1 July 2011 to 31 May 2013 for consultants and contractors engaged to assist with the transformation programme is $29.1 million. By contrast I understand that the Inland Revenue Department has a budget spend on information and communications technology of $162 million over the equivalent period to maintain support and develop its current legacy systems.Hon David Cunliffe: Can he confirm that of that $29 million over $23 million has been paid to one consultant which isCapgemini and can he explain what that vast amount of fees has purchased?Hon TODD McCLAY: The last chairman of the Finance and Expenditure Committee wrote to the Minister and asked for information about that and all information was given by the new Minister. I can answer that question because I happen to be both of those people. What I can say is that of the $29 million—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Would the Minister just get to the answer?Hon TODD McCLAY: Thank you Mr Speaker.Capgemini is one of the 23 companies that has contracted to the Inland Revenue Department on the Business Transformation programme and it has provided around four contracts. The member is correct around that amount.Hon David Cunliffe: HasCapgemini provided an estimated total cost of the Business Transformation project; if so approximately what is it?Hon TODD McCLAY: No I am not aware of whether that is part of the contracts that have been issued. We need to be a little bit careful that we do not get ahead of ourselves around total costs. This is an important project with appropriate due diligence needed on it. We have around 7 million taxpayers in New Zealand. They have a right to expect value for money and the due diligence we are going through at the moment will ensure the success of this project.Hon David Cunliffe: If the Minister’s department has already paid over $21 million to one consultant and has not received an estimate of the total cost of the project does he consider that good practice; and what action will he take to ensure that the project is properly costed?Hon TODD McCLAY: That was not the answer that I gave.Hon David Cunliffe: Have the Minister’s Cabinet colleagues been advised of the total cost of the project; if so when?Hon TODD McCLAY: I am not a member of Cabinet but there are ongoing discussions. Indeed Cabinet was first apprised of this issue some time ago and I expect additional papers to go to it later in the year.Hon David Cunliffe: I seek leave to table a summary list of all consulting spending on the Business Transformation programme totalling nearly—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The source of the document please.Hon David Cunliffe: It has been compiled from Inland Revenue Department documents by the Labour Party research unit.Mr SPEAKER: On this occasion I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.Hon David Cunliffe: I seek leave to table a full list of consulting expenses from the Inland Revenue Department in relation to both the Business Transformation project and other matters for the last 5 years.Mr SPEAKER: The source of that document?Hon David Cunliffe: From the Inland Revenue Department.Mr SPEAKER: Is it available on the website?Hon David Cunliffe: Not that I am aware of.Mr SPEAKER: On that basis I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table that information. Is there any objection? Yes there is.