Seymour David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeSeymour David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 05 May 2015. Volume:705;Page:3135. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Minister for Economic Development: What are the fiscal risks to the Crown from Tracey Martin’s New Zealand International Convention Centre Act 2013 Repeal Bill if any?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development): If the bill was to pass—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am about to lose my patience with one member in particular. There has just been perpetual interjection from one member particularly in a very loud voice. If it happens again I will be asking that member to leave the Chamber.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: If the bill was to pass and the New Zealand International Convention Centre Act repealed the risks would be high. In terms of direct Crown liability to begin with the Government would be liable for half of the design costs up to a maximum of $10 million. But following the signing of a building works contract that liability would rise potentially to the value of the concessions which would be in excess of $400 million as set out in clause 22 of the agreement. Also important is the reputational risk. If a Government is to be able to contract other parties to that contract need to be able to trust that the Government will follow through. Subsequent cancellation of a contract of this magnitude would mean that other parties would be less likely to contract with the Government in the future or price in that risk. I am pleased therefore that that member and others on this side of the House will not be supporting the repeal bill.Tracey Martin: Can the Minister confirm that Mr Seymour was in support of my bill until one he saw the polling in Northland and two he received a phone call—Mr SPEAKER: Order! No there is no ministerial responsibility for the bill in that question. If the member wishes to ask a question that relates to the ministerial responsibility I will accept it. The way it is phrased at the moment it will be ruled out of order.Tracey Martin: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can I rephrase the question to meet the—Mr SPEAKER: I have given the opportunity for the member to rephrase it.Tracey Martin: Thank you very much. Can the Minister confirm that Mr Seymour was in support of my bill until he received a phone call from the Minister himself?Mr SPEAKER: Order! The question is not in order.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In the Minister’s answer he introduced the bill and said that the ACT Party member was supporting it. It is perfectly reasonable for a follow-up supplementary question to address the answer that the Minister gave.Mr SPEAKER: I will listen again to the question. The way it was phrased in my mind I have made absolutely the correct decision. There must be a ministerial responsibility. If the member can relate it to the ministerial responsibility then I will accept the question. I am trying to assist the member.Tracey Martin: Can the Minister confirm—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Start again.Tracey Martin: Can the Minister confirm whether he has seen any reports indicating Mr Seymour’s support of the bill until he received a call from the Minister himself pressuring him to change his position?Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There is absolutely no ministerial responsibility—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I listened to the question. It is a very easy question for the Minister to address. The Minister was asked whether he had seen any reports.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Yes I have seen reports. I am not sure that I could verify those reports exactly; they were from a media outlet. But I have seen the reports.Tracey Martin: Can the Minister explain why he and the questioner David Seymour are now asserting the sanctity of contract law around my bill in light of the fact that Skycity has already indicated that it is in breach of a core platform of this particular contract? [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: If the Minister did not hear the question I can get it repeated.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I am not sure that that member is correct. What I can tell her though in relation to her bill is that she does say at the outset of her bill I understand through the press release that she is very keen to minimise costs to taxpayers. I agree with her that that is important but the simple reality is that the bill that she is proposing would actually dramatically increase costs to taxpayers.Tracey Martin: Can the Minister confirm that it was he who negotiated this contract which included clause 22 and whether it will cost the New Zealand taxpayer more or less than they have paid for the Novopay contract debacle he was supposed to be fixing?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No I did not personally negotiate the contract with Skycity. I did sign the contract on behalf of the Government and I can confirm that the Skycity contract as constructed says quite clearly that the concessions are in response to the construction of the New Zealand International Convention Centre and as such it would be considerably cheaper than the Novopay contract signed by the previous Labour Government.David Seymour: What can we learn about the role of Governments in commercial enterprises and has the Minister seen any reports of other parties proposing such enterprises in their manifestos recently?Mr SPEAKER: I think the—[Interruption] Order! The first part of the question can be answered.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I think Governments should always be careful in their involvement with commercial enterprises and be seeking to transfer the risk to for example the private sector as has been done for example in the ultra-fast broadband contract that is being supported by this Government. That has transferred the risk to the private sector and resulted in a very competitive development of ultra-fast broadband in this country as compared with for example Australia where the taxpayer took on the commercial risk and it has cost masses and masses of billions of dollars.