Joyce Steven: General Debate 
Joyce Steven: General Debate 
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Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport) 
: 
 As I said Opposition members flatter themselves as to when the Government times its press releases—they absolutely flatter themselves. I want to know their view on Auckland governance their view on how to respond to the global recession their view on what should be in the Budget and their view on what should be cut to pay for a $3 billion roading project. You see mummy and daddy Labour have left the building and I worry for the Labour Party. There is nobody opposite who knows anything about financial matters in the Labour Party. If there was surely they would have told Mr Hughes that interest is real. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I apologise to the honourable Minister again. I ask members of the Opposition to be reasonable. They sought an urgent question and wanted an answer on this issue. The Minister is about to tell the House and the people of New Zealand about what sounds like decisions that have been made. I believe that the House deserves some courtesy. This is a matter of courtesy to the House. Interjections are fine but with that barrage I could not hear and I could see that the members of the Maori Party and other members at the far end of the House simply could not hear and that is unreasonable. That is discourteous to the House. [ 
Interruption 
] I do not think there is any need for further points of order on this matter. I invite the Hon Steven Joyce to carry on his speech. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is a relatively minor point but one that is quite important. In your ruling you anticipated what the Minister was going to say. That is something that a Speaker should never do. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Forgive me if I did that. I did not mean to. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I worry that mummy and daddy Labour have left the building and I worry for the Labour Party that there is nobody left who knows anything about financial matters. If there was surely they would have told Mr Hughes that interest is real that when you borrow money you have to pay interest on it that if you borrow money for a big project and are casting around to find a way to pay for it then you have to include the cost of carrying that debt. If you tell people that you are going to build a big project that you have promised them then you have to have a way of paying for it. It is actually being intellectually dishonest if you do not have a way of paying for the project—if you do not identify the 27c a litre petrol tax or the special rate on housing. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Calling you intellectually dishonest is beyond the limits of what is allowed. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thank the honourable member for his valid point of order and I ask the Minister to remember that when he says “you” he is referring to the Speaker. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Surely if there was anybody left in the Labour Party who understood financial matters they would have told Mr Hughes that every spending decision carries an opportunity cost. That if you spend $3 billion you have not got it to spend somewhere else. If you go out there promising Transmission Gully massive Waterview tunnels massive amounts of public transport— 
Hon Steve Chadwick 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not think that you Mr Speaker have gone out promising things to the public. The member keeps bringing you into the debate. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I guess that while the Minister keeps erring in that way he will be interrupted. The Minister should remember; it is quite important. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Labour went out and promised Transmission Gully massive Waterview tunnels massive amounts of public transport investments and anything else that opens and shuts and it pretended the country could afford it all. If there was anybody left in the Labour Party who knew anything about financial matters surely he or she would have told Mr Hughes that there is a global recession on—the worst the world has faced since the 1930s. Now more than ever is not the time to stay wedded to grandiose unfunded schemes which are cruel hoaxes to the people of any suburb or of any city. 
The New Zealand Transport Agency has announced its decision this afternoon on the Waterview Connection; it is a well-considered and balanced decision. It has taken the $1.4 billion option which strikes a fair balance between the needs of the local community and those of the country and the economy. The $1.4 billion proposed route includes building the motorway under Great North Road and in a tunnel under New North Road and under Avondale Heights. The resulting underground section represents about 60 percent of the length of the road. Then south of New North Road the motorway would run through the Alan Wood Reserve corridor to the west of Hendon Avenue. The road would run alongside the long-designated Avondale to Southdown rail link. 
This option is cost-effective but it is still important to note that this roading project will be New Zealand’s most expensive roading ever by a considerable margin. Although this option has very strong community and environmental mitigation I do acknowledge that it still significantly affects some members of the community. I encourage them to take part in the community engagement process that the New Zealand Transport Agency is about to commence. 
There are no easy options but I believe that this proposal will go a long way towards easing the concerns of many while being cost-effective for this country. And that is the point: the proposal has to be cost-effective as well because the whole country has to pay for it. Labour used to understand that. On the other hand of course I may be giving too much credit to mummy and daddy Labour before they left. In Labour’s last 5 years in office it did increase core Crown expenditure by 51 percent—51 percent—whereas the economy grew by just 23 percent. 
So perhaps Labour is only reaping what it sowed. The current Labour members have no understanding of financial matters no understanding of the value of a dollar and no understanding of the issues that New Zealanders outside of this House grapple with every day. That is likely to be one of the main reasons that people threw Labour out of office last November. Labour members do not understand the value of these projects and the value of money. New Zealanders looked at how Labour proposed to magic money out of thin air and I am sure they were glad they did throw Labour out.