Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill — First Reading 
Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:658;Page:7396] 
Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill 
First Reading 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence) 
 on behalf of the  
Minister of Research Science and Technology 
: I move  
That the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill be now read a first time. 
 At the appropriate time I intend to move that the bill be considered by the Education and Science Committee and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 20 November 2009. I will also be moving that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting except during questions for oral answer during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House or on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). 
Today I start by outlining what this bill represents. It provides the final steps to repeal the Carter Observatory Act 1938 which established an astronomical observatory in the city of Wellington; dissolves the Carter Observatory board established to maintain operate and control the Carter Observatory; transfers the assets of the Carter Observatory board to the Wellington City Council which has managed the observatory since 2007 and will continue to do so in the future; and vests the liabilities incurred by the Carter Observatory board in the Crown and the Wellington City Council. The Crown will bear responsibility for liabilities incurred before December 2007 and the Wellington City Council those incurred from December 2007. These decisions were agreed to by the previous Government and the enactment of this legislation will complete that process. Once the Act has been repealed the final responsibility of the board will be to present its final set of accounts to Parliament. 
The observatory owes its existence to Charles Rooking Carter who lived from 1822 until 1896. He gifted part of his estate to what later became the Royal Society of New Zealand for the purpose of establishing an astronomical observatory in or near Wellington. Parliament formally recognised the observatory in passing the Carter Observatory Act in 1938. That Act made the observatory the formal base for astronomical research in New Zealand. Research began with solar observations. However the observatory expanded its scope in the 1970s to include variable stars galaxies comets and asteroids. There was further recognition of the observatory’s role when it became the national astronomical observatory of New Zealand in 1977 with the function to “promote or carry out … research or activity related to astronomy”. Historically the Carter Observatory had a research team that provided research science and technology outputs. However since its establishment as the national astronomical observatory of New Zealand the roles functions and outputs of the Carter Observatory have changed considerably. For example there has been a shift away from an active research focus and towards developing a more educational and visitors centre experience. 
In 2005 astronomer Professor Mike Bessell of the Australian National University was commissioned by the Ministry of Research Science and Technology to review the Carter Observatory’s ability to carry out its functions as New Zealand’s national observatory explore New Zealand’s requirements and opportunities in the national observatory area and assess the roles of the various players within the sector. The report asked what a national observatory was and whether New Zealand needed one whether the Carter Observatory was currently fulfilling the national observatory role and whether it was appropriate that the Carter Observatory retain its national observatory status. The report showed that the functions of a national observatory for education and higher-level research were spread across New Zealand’s observatories and astronomical organisations and that the role and function of the national observatory was not being fulfilled by the Carter Observatory. At the same time the Carter Observatory was looking to transition to a high-quality educational and tourism experience. It was apparent therefore that the ownership and funding of the observatory did not fit with how the observatory had evolved or with where its future lay. 
This bill sets in motion the legislative process started by the previous Government and developed in conjunction with the Wellington City Council. The primary policy objective of this bill is “to terminate the statutory responsibilities of the Crown in relation to the Carter Observatory …”. The Crown has provided $2.2 million in funding for the observatory to transition from the Crown into management by the Wellington City Council. Under the current arrangements Wellington City Council has guaranteed financial support for the Carter Observatory of $300000 per annum for 10 years. This Government agrees with that approach as the Carter Observatory’s direction no longer aligns with the requirements of the national observatory as set out in Professor Bessell’s report. The transition of the Carter Observatory away from the Crown will not mean a significant impact on or loss of science capability. 
The future interest of the observatory will lie with the Wellington City Council whose focus for the observatory will be on public education and tourism. I take the opportunity to congratulate the Wellington City Council on ensuring the continuing operation of the Carter Observatory. The observatory is now on a more stable footing. The refurbishment and upgrading of the building has been completed with the assistance of $2.2 million of taxpayer or Crown funding. The Crown funding for the redevelopment of the observatory was agreed to as part of the business case put forward by the Wellington City Council to reposition the Carter Observatory as a Wellington-based tourist attraction. The next stage of the refurbishment project is scheduled to be completed early next year. That stage will include the design and installation of a multimedia exhibition that will bring space science to life. The future direction of the Carter Observatory with the Wellington City Council will see the observatory transformed into a high-quality tourism and education venue for both national and international visitors offering a distinct Kiwi perspective to space science and astronomy. 
The report of the Australian astronomer Mike Bessell in 2005 recommended that the Carter Observatory no longer be the national observatory of New Zealand and that the Act be repealed. It made other recommendations on where a national observatory could be placed and what the budgeting requirements to fund a national observatory could be. There may be some interest about what is generally viewed as the national observatory title and the status that it implies. Although the Carter Observatory has gained a reputation over time as the national observatory of New Zealand it was never accorded the right of protection of names under the Act— 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Why not? 
Hon JOHN CARTER 
: —once the national observatory status is repealed. If the member hangs on a minute I may just be able to tell him. 
Hon Member 
: Or may not! 
Hon JOHN CARTER 
: Or may not. The Government has no immediate plans to designate any such national observatory title or status to the Carter Observatory or to any other observatory or group. I commend the bill to the House. 
DAVID SHEARER (Labour—Mt Albert) 
: 
 As the Labour spokesperson on science research and technology I support the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill at its first reading. Specifically the bill will repeal the Carter Observatory Act 1938 which set up the astronomical observatory in the city of Wellington; dissolve the Carter Observatory board and arrange for the proper transfer of assets to the Wellington City Council; and vest the liabilities to the Crown and the Wellington City Council. 
The decision is based on a report by Michael Bessell of the Ministry of Science Research and Technology published in 2006 under the Labour Government. The report made a number of recommendations and it is worth going through one or two of them. The Carter Observatory became the national observatory of New Zealand in 1977 and faced a number of problems not only in its leadership and lack of agreement on its mission but also in its lack of financial resources. It was established on rather questionable grounds—in part the strong part played by the amateur astronomers in the area—and it did not really make sufficient linkages with Victoria University’s department of physics as the report clearly sets out. 
Bessell’s report sets out five key roles that he felt were necessary for a national observatory: “To operate and develop the national telescope as a national research facility for use by national and international researchers” “To deepen the understanding of the universe …” “To train outstanding scientists and technicians” “To promote international research activities by collaborating …” and “To conduct an effective outreach program to disseminate astronomic information …”. In short the Carter Observatory was not really meeting the functions of a national observatory; most of its effort in fact was centred on education and outreach which is laudable and an important part of an observatory—as the report itself notes—but not really sufficient for the national observatory of New Zealand. There is still very keen interest in astronomy in our communities and the state of astronomical research is in a pretty healthy state. 
The report also pointed out that the focused resources from the ministry would be placed more appropriately in association with the University of Canterbury. That would be more suitable especially given that the university has demonstrated a long-term commitment and support for astronomy. Canterbury has always welcomed outside users of its telescope particularly from the University of Otago and the University of Auckland. It would be situated in the University of Canterbury’s Mount John Observatory which is regarded and accepted as a major player in the national and international scene in terms of that sort of research. In many ways this dismisses the Carter Observatory’s fears that the change would not act in the wider national interest. That collegiality will continue across those research institutions and universities. So the country is not losing out. We are simply regrouping our resources sensibly together so that research can be best done in a peer-supported environment consolidating our precious resources in this country to make the best use of them. The Carter Observatory—as the previous speaker the Hon John Carter noted—will continue to cater to and meet the needs and outreach needs of Wellington. Placing it under the Wellington City Council will achieve that goal admirably and the observatory can be tailored to meet the needs of Wellington and Wellingtonians more appropriately. 
The discussion of science and the consolidation of resources in science stimulates thinking a little more generally around the interests of research and science. I will read a couple of quotes. The first one is: “science will be the mainstay of the transformation of New Zealand indeed it is the only way we can make a quantum leap in productivity” and “address the many challenges we will face.” The second quote is: “Science … can transform how we approach the problems of society it can protect our environment it can lead to new industries some small some perhaps large it can add to our standing in the world it can change our national psyche and in doing so reinvent us in a way that can improve our productivity.” In short science is the way in which New Zealand has made itself wealthy. Those were the quotes of Professor Gluckman the Prime Minister’s chief science adviser speaking to the AgResearch institute in Waikato. I agree with him. Who would not? I believe that it is a good decision to have Professor Gluckman as an adviser to the Prime Minister. 
The pity is that those fine words do not really match the actions of this Government. I was dismayed to hear Anne Tolley the Minister of Education on  
Morning Report  
today. She said that she was withdrawing the funding for development support in primary schools in the areas of science PE and art. She said: “Maybe the year after we might have a focus on science and the year after that we might have a focus on art.” Or maybe we might do it round the other way. The point is that science as Professor Gluckman said is one of the mainstays of our society and this Government is not walking the walk. It is certainly not walking the talk that Professor Gluckman sets out. New Zealand’s future demands that we have a bunch of well-educated scientists coming through our schools and this latest announcement certainly does not ensure that. 
New Zealand faces perhaps three big difficulties in the areas of science and research. One is tying together the science with the development the innovation and the ability to get products off and out for the benefit of New Zealand. We are really good at innovation. We are very good at doing science but often the gap is with private enterprise and how we develop it. The second difficulty I suggest is that the time lines within which science works are often not short ones but long ones. It is not 1 or 2 years but 4 5 or 6 years before we see real results in our science. The third difficulty is simply that the amount of funding that is going into research and development is very low. We have one of the lowest OECD averages in terms of science funding. During the last 9 years the previous Labour Government elevated and lifted that OECD average up from the appalling state that we inherited in 1999 but there is still some work to do. 
What did we do as a result of that OECD standing? One of the first things that we did was to introduce a very innovative and forward-thinking scheme called the Fast Forward Fund. What did it do? It brought together State research and private companies. It brought them together in a partnership. One of the real problems as I have stated was in bringing together the two aspects: the State-funded research and the innovation and development of products by private companies. That scheme was praised throughout New Zealand and praised internationally for its wisdom and foresight but what did National do in the first 100 days it was in Government? It abolished the scheme. It threw it out. It threw out this innovative scheme which would have enabled us to have guaranteed funding and to bring together in a natural partnership the State and private enterprise. 
Not only did this Government do that but also it did away with the research and development tax credit that the previous Government had set up for private companies. This tax credit was again applauded throughout New Zealand—in particular in the business community—because for the first time we were seeing the business community getting behind research and development and we were lifting our appallingly low spend on science within the private sector. The Government’s move was criticised by business groups around New Zealand—including most importantly the Employers and Manufacturers Association—and rightly so. 
ALLAN PEACHEY (National—Tamaki) 
: 
 I am thrilled and delighted to be able to take a call and support the first reading of the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. I want to express great pleasure and satisfaction that the future of the Carter Observatory is assured and I acknowledge the role that the previous Government played in ensuring that fact. I hope future Labour speakers will speak in that spirit; this is not an opportunity to take a crack at the Government. In 1938 the original Act was passed. It has been amended several times. It aimed to deal with a request by Mr Charles Carter and I will take a few minutes in the House this afternoon to reflect on the contribution that Mr Carter made; I doubt that he ever quite appreciated the significance of what he did. 
The great significance of the Carter Observatory has not been as a national centre of scientific excellence or astronomical study; it has been education. I wonder how many thousands of Wellington youngsters in particular got their first introduction to astronomy and their first introduction to any form of science through being taken up to the Carter Observatory by their parents. Certainly our four children all had to the opportunity; they were taken up by their parents. I still remember with a great deal of pleasure taking one of my sons up to a lecture one evening. He was probably barely in primary school. I remember being riveted as I watched this young lad absolutely absorbed by the mysteries of the universe space the stars and the moon. That was the role that the Carter Observatory played so well. It is the role that the observatory will continue to play. I commend Wellington City Council for the arrangement it has entered into with the Crown to take over responsibility for keeping the observatory going. 
Some of us have been around a bit longer than others. I reflect back to 1962. I was in standard 6 and it was called standard 6. For younger members opposite that is form 2 or year— 
Hon Member 
: Year 8. 
ALLAN PEACHEY 
: Year 8; standard 6 does for me. At Waiouru Primary School we had the most marvellous schoolteacher Mr Kensington. He was a hard man but he was fair. He taught us to read write and do maths. He taught us about interesting things which we as 12-year-olds needed to know. I remember two things in particular. Firstly we read Thor Heyerdahl’s book on his travels over the Pacific that year. We read that as 12-year-olds. Secondly the teacher taught us astronomy. From that I am convinced that several of my classmates developed their interest in science. In the phys ed store we used to have old rubber balls varying in size. The teacher got a collection of those—and I still remember 47 years on—and made a model to explain to us the Earth the moon the stars and the planets. Most important of all in a distant rural community that was nothing more than an army base he would have loved the opportunity to take his young students to Wellington to the Carter Observatory to let us have a look. 
That opportunity did not exist. Those were the days when we kicked a footy around on the top field until it was dark went home and had tea and then went off to the army boxing club or the basketball club. There was no TV. One Monday night our teacher took us up to the top field of Waiouru Primary School. On a good day from this field one can see what we called Mount Egmont but is now called Mount Taranaki Ruapehu Ngauruhoe and Tongariro. Somewhere he found a telescope and he spent his evening as so many good schoolteachers do showing us how to identify the stars and the moon and letting us be inspired by the thought that there was another world of planets out there. I am very grateful for that knowledge. I would have loved as a young lad to have the chance to visit something like the Carter Observatory. The opportunity was denied to me but I take pleasure in the fact that thousands of young New Zealanders particularly those living in Wellington have had that opportunity. The city of Wellington is to be congratulated on the way it has embraced the Carter Observatory over all the years and over all its changes. It was the Wellington City Council that made land available up in the Botanic Gardens for the observatory. 
I count it as one of the great good fortunes of my life—and looking around the House I suspect there are not too many of us who could claim this—to have been alive when man first walked on the moon. What a significant achievement! I appreciated that occasion probably more than a lot of people do today because of the knowledge I had of astronomy and the way the solar system works and because of the things that I was taught as a youngster at school. You see something else is important about astronomy and I reflect on my previous life in saying this. For so many youngsters it is their first introduction to science. It is their first opportunity to get involved in something that is a bit different but that is very very intrinsically interesting. Once one has caught a child’s interest in something one is halfway there—probably more than halfway there. It is one of those subjects that one could use to teach a youngster to read to write and to do mathematical calculations. What is more youngsters ask questions. Teachers parents and observers and people who work at the observatory suddenly find themselves not just talking about the moon the stars the planets and all the rest of it but also introducing youngsters to chemistry to physics and to mathematical principles. That is one of the great things about astronomy. It has been a pleasure to speak on this bill. 
Grant Robertson 
: Well we’ve all enjoyed it. 
ALLAN PEACHEY 
: I hope so because it is a change not to have Labour members shouting me down from over the other side there. It is difficult to argue with what I have said of course. I want to reaffirm that the Minister of Civil Defence Mr John Carter very very clearly outlined the purpose of the bill and its reasons. There is no point going back over that. But I do want to reiterate my great pleasure in seeing this bill introduced into the House. I am really excited at the prospect of being the chair of the Education and Science Committee that will report it back. I commend it to the House and urge its speedy passage. Thank you. 
MOANA MACKEY (Labour) 
: 
 I thank Allan Peachey the member who just resumed his seat for reading out the first two chapters of his upcoming autobiography “ 
Allan Peachey: The Man the Dream 
”. It was truly inspirational and we look forward to reading about what else went on at the top field of his primary school when that book hits the shelves in time for Christmas 2009. 
I am happy to speak on the first reading of the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. I too will start off with two thankyous. The first thankyou has to go to Mr Charles Rooking Carter who gifted his estate to the Royal Society of New Zealand for the establishment of an astronomical observatory in Wellington. As the previous speaker has said thousands and thousands of New Zealanders have benefited from that generosity. The thanks of this House need to go on record as the Carter Observatory moves into the next stage of its existence. 
The second thankyou needs to go to the Wellington City Council because without its support for the ongoing work of the Carter Observatory it would not be able to continue. I sincerely thank the Wellington City Council for its generosity and its recognition of the importance of this institution. We find ourselves in an interesting situation. The Carter Observatory has an exciting future as a tourism and an educational institution but it is also with a hint of sadness that we lose our national observatory in this area. 
As the previous speaker said it is very true that for many young people astronomy is the gateway into science. The planets and the moon are often the first things that young people ask about. They are the first things they see that they cannot fully understand. Because of this natural curiosity we are able to introduce them to the exciting possibilities that exist not just in astronomy but in all areas of science. 
Despite the fact that New Zealand does not do an awful lot of research in this area compared with other countries we need to ensure that we maintain these facilities. If we lose them then we will lose a generation of young scientists of young people who may never really investigate their natural curiosity. For that I want to thank the Carter Observatory for the work that it does. 
We also need to thank the Carter Observatory for the work it has been doing as a private tertiary education provider. Not a lot of people know that the observatory is accredited by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority as a private tertiary provider. It has developed national standards in astronomy. If people look at its website they will find an enormous amount of teaching resources. It has picked up the new curriculum and the National Certificate of Educational Achievement system. The observatory has developed enormous resources for teachers who can go to the website and look at the pedagogy that the Carter Observatory believes they should follow. It outlines the way in which it believes the national standards should be taught. This is an enormous resource for teachers. They do not have to do this work for themselves especially given that not many of our teachers have expertise in the area of astronomy. 
Hon Member 
: We need science advisers. 
MOANA MACKEY 
: I am getting to that. It is important that we thank the observatory for the work it is doing and that we make sure that it is adequately funded to be able to carry this out in the future. 
This leaves us with the question that was addressed by my colleague David Shearer about the role of a national observatory in New Zealand and whether one is needed. This is where we see once again the real value of the centres of research excellence that were set up under the previous Labour Government. This move opened up possibilities for the University of Canterbury to take on this role with the Mount John Observatory which has combined its work with the research that it is being done at the university. A national observatory should be involved in research. This is one of the reasons why the Carter Observatory was no longer able to fulfil that particular role of a national observatory. But that does not mean there is not the possibility in the future for there to be another national observatory in this very important area in New Zealand. Obviously Mount John Observatory and maybe some other observatories might be looking at doing that. 
I will bring to the attention of members a very important organisation that they may not know about which is the Whakatane Observatory. This observatory in the Bay of Plenty is a gem. Members can look at the website: www.skyofplenty.com. It is a non-profitmaking community facility. It is currently based on council land and let us hope that the Whakatane District Council does not decide to sell that land from underneath it or move it to another area. 
The observatory has three telescopes and two observatories. It performs an incredibly important educational function for students not just in the Bay of Plenty but also from the Waikato the East Coast and all the surrounding areas. Teachers can bring in their students to see these facilities. It has equipment for astro-photography which the students love and also facilities for solar viewing. It currently has a large audiovisual room for the students and it can cater for the large groups of students who come through. The students get the teaching. They get all the education about what goes on at the observatory from the very passionate volunteers who run it. The students are then able to go into the observatory and see through a telescope the wonders that exist out there in the universe. 
I think that this role will become even more important given the cuts in funding for science advisers. The Whakatane Observatory already fills an important role in ensuring that our teachers have access to this education. The people running it are concerned about ensuring that enough money goes into supporting the groups like theirs that can provide that support. 
We are very concerned that the cuts in the funding for science advisers will be absolutely detrimental to the teaching of science at primary school. Today in the House the Minister said that people need to be able to read and write and do maths to do science and that is true. But people also need to be able to do science to do science. If we do not have these critically important science advisers or if we lose them overseas—they are already being poached because they are so valuable—it will be very very difficult for us to get them back. 
Science is such a specialised area. When we look at our primary school teachers we see that they work really hard to cover a huge curriculum. They have to cover every single area and the support they get in very technical areas like science is crucial to the teaching of science. If we do not get this right at primary school level then we will not get it right anywhere else in the system. If we do not have the basics and an appreciation of the fundamentals of science at primary school then it will be too late. This Government purports to value science but everything we have seen since the election has been absolutely contrary to that claim. We have seen cuts in science funding and in the way that science is brought into education. As my colleague David Shearer said as a country we simply cannot afford to fall even further behind than we already have. 
The previous Labour Government was making good inroads into increasing our level of public funding of science and increasing our level of private sector funding of science through the research and development tax credit. This Government said that the tax credit was corporate welfare. That is from a Government that will subsidise heavily emitting polluters by billions of dollars. I ask why that is not viewed as corporate welfare but having research and development tax credits for the private sector is. This Government is subsidising jobs at McDonald’s—jobs at McDonald’s—and it does not think that is corporate welfare. McDonald’s was going to have those jobs anyway but this Government does not provide tax incentives in an area where just about every other country in the OECD provides them. Even if we do not like it the fact is that we are already behind the eight ball and we need to do something because all the investors go everywhere else. This Government says that is corporate welfare. I completely agree with the statements of my colleague David Shearer. 
The previous speaker Allan Peachey talked about how excited he was when he saw a man walking on the moon. I was not born then but I have seen the images and it is very exciting even for someone who was not born at the time. As a scientist one of the most exciting things about man walking on the moon was the incredible amount of resources and funding that went into the science to make that happen. That recognised the value of science. It recognised the value of saying: “This is the impossible. We can do it.” Trillions of dollars have flowed into the United States economy from that funding. That money might not be directly related to putting a man on the moon but it came out of the technology that helped the United States to do that and that initial funding has undoubtedly been instrumental in making it one of the wealthiest countries in the world. 
As a scientist I was so excited to hear the speech made by President Obama in the last few months in which in light of the recession he announced a package of science funding and research and development funding as part of an economic stimulus plan that will be greater than the funding put in place for the space race. How many trillion and trillions of dollars will flow to the United States because of that? We need to learn from that. This stuff brings rewards and this Government is not taking that fact seriously enough. 
Dr KENNEDY GRAHAM (Green) 
: 
 I rise to continue the misty-eyed tradition of personal reminiscences that appears to have sprung up in the course of this afternoon. I succumb to the temptation to recall that I am—and I look forward to being corrected here—arguably the only current member of the House to have audited Astronomy 1 at Harvard University in 1973. I also recall participating in a breathtaking experience in Thailand in 1982 when all nine planets were in alignment and watching the wonderment on the faces of my two young sons at the time and participating in viewing the Leonids meteorite show in 2002 from Wadi Rum on the floor of the Jordanian desert where it is both cold and extraordinarily clear. 
Moana Mackey 
: OK you win! 
Dr KENNEDY GRAHAM 
: I can go on and I shall. Within a month or two of returning to New Zealand in 2005 I visited the Mount John Observatory at Lake Tekapo for the first time and viewed the stunningly beautiful landscape looking down on a snowstorm below us. It was inspiring to a Belgian immigrant family we were hosting at the time. 
These recollections tend to introduce wonderment into what might otherwise pass as pedestrian legislation on a Thursday afternoon. Such experiences tend to strike and touch the heart if not the soul of every one of the 122 mortals who congregate here from week to week. Certainly the wonders of the cosmos tend to place question time in perspective as might anything outside the House. 
The Green Party supports— 
Grant Robertson 
: Tell us more about Thailand! 
Dr KENNEDY GRAHAM 
: —members will be relieved to know I am moving on to the business-like part of my address—the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. A 2005 ministry report recommended that the Act be repealed that the observatory be handed over to the Wellington City Council and that other options for a national observatory be considered. Under the last Government extensive refurbishment was funded and completed. In December 2007 the Wellington City Council confirmed that it wanted greater involvement in the operation and governance of the observatory and that was welcomed by its board. The bill seeks to complete a process of transition that has been under way for many years now. 
The Green Party sees no reason for this bill not to proceed at this time. We welcome public input into the process and we hope that all the recommendations of the 2005 report are given full consideration by the House. Thank you. 
DAVID GARRETT (ACT) 
: 
 There must be something in the air or perhaps it is just astronomy but I was fortunate enough to enter the Chamber in the closing stages of the inspiring speech made by Mr Peachey. I was very happy to have it put in context by Ms Mackey because clearly I missed the crucial reference to mystical experiences connected with observatories. I too have very fond memories of not just any old observatory but the Carter Observatory when I lived in Wellington in the early 1990s. They were not experiences that were directly connected with astronomy but they were certainly temporally and spatially connected with the observatory or more particularly the grassy surrounds thereof. It was a very pleasant and sunny spot to have lunch watch the world go by and take a step back from the complex hurly-burly of life as it then was for me. 
I am also reminded of the moon landings. I was lucky enough to be alive at the time and old enough to enjoy it although I do remember it seemed to take Neil Armstrong an awfully long time to get down the ladder. I think I asked my father why he was so slow. I believe that Mr Armstrong made one remark that caused great confusion for many many years. It was a mumbled remark which needed to be analysed by those back at Cape Kennedy as it then was; it has reverted now to Cape Canaveral. It was finally worked out that Mr Armstrong said: “Good luck Mr Gorsky!”. There was great inquiry as to who this mysterious Mr Gorsky was. I cannot elaborate in the House but if any member wishes to ask me the rest of the story outside the House I am happy to oblige. 
The cosmos is certainly a wonderful thing a wonderful phenomenon. My daughter aged 8 now went to a planetarium and she was absolutely fascinated by that but how much more wondrous the real thing is. 
I am very happy to be so in tune with the Greens on this particular bill because I frequently look up in the sky at night and wonder about what I see—and what I cannot see. I am very sad that Dr Graham is not in the Chamber and I ask other members not to take any exception but he is a very learned man and he would know when the solar system was mapped. Here we are in 2009 and one would think the mapping was all done but just this year astronomers have discovered a new ring around Saturn. That is fascinating; hundreds of years after the solar system was mapped a new ring has been discovered. That can only happen when we have observatories. The ACT Party has much pleasure in supporting this bill. 
COLIN KING (National—Kaikoura) 
: 
 In addressing the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill it would be an exaggeration to say it is one small step for man and one giant step for mankind. However in the scheme of things we have to consider the Carter Observatory as having played a significant role in astronomy and astronomy education within New Zealand. I want to talk about why the bill is necessary. I want to talk a little bit about the history of the Carter Observatory and some of the developments that have happened in astronomy within New Zealand and internationally. I also want to talk about what will happen in the future with the Carter Observatory about visitors and tourist attractions and about the connections that the Carter Observatory had with the province of Marlborough with the Black Birch outpost observatory in Seddon. 
It is quite interesting really when one does the research on things and finds out that they were started by being bequeathed by a benevolent New Zealander. They were built up and they became a landmark. The bill is for the purpose of good governance. We have all talked about our experiences with astronomy and the fascination with the universe. In my line of work I had my head down and tail up. I did not have a lot of time to look at the wonders of the stars. But when I stop to think about what I was doing one morning at about 5 o’clock going to a shearing shed I remember I saw Halley’s Comet going through the sky. That was in 1985. I was in a shed in Benneydale called Wharekiri and it was the best view that I had of Halley’s Comet— 
Jo Goodhew 
: Ewe? 
COLIN KING 
: “View” not “ewe”. It had nothing to do with ewes wethers rams or whatever. It was an amazing event. 
We have to think about the impressions on the mind of the young benefactor—as he grew older—and the importance that was attached to an observatory. Wellington was a port. It was very important to be able to make sure its timing its clocks and things were spot on and that the tides and such things were able to be judged. It was quite a natural reaction to build an observatory in Wellington. The fact that it was built where it was was quite appropriate at the time because Wellington was a lot smaller than it is now. It would have been considered to be out in the country. But today all we would need to do is go down Lambton Quay catch the cable car up to the Botanic Gardens and there we are—we would still be in Wellington. What a beautiful setting it is up there! 
This bill will make the Carter Observatory transition from being functional to educational once the refurbishment is complete. When we look at the time lines we see that in 2006 the Carter Observatory board decided that it would refurbish the observatory. It needed quite a bit of money to be spent on it to bring it up to scratch to make it a first-class tourist attraction. It is in that sort of context that we want to think of the Carter Observatory. 
The purpose of the bill is to vest the observatory back in the Wellington City Council and that is quite appropriate. The council contributed to the land for the purpose of an observatory and it will receive it back. So the public policy of this bill is to terminate that statutory responsibility to the Crown. When we look through this bill we see that the Education and Science Committee under the fine chairmanship of Allan Peachey will manage it adequately and appropriately. On that basis I am very very pleased to be able to speak positively on the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill and commend it to the House. Thank you very much. 
GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central) 
: 
 I fear I have an inadequate astronomical pedigree compared with my colleagues to stand up here and talk today. In fact I did not even sit School Certificate science. Mr Peachey would be appalled to hear that. But as I have gone on in years I have come to see that science plays a critical role in our world and society and I have also come to see that astronomy is indeed a fantastic part of that. 
As the MP for Wellington Central I will take a short call on the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill in order to note that the Carter Observatory does sit within the Wellington Central electorate and will complete when it is fully renovated next year a nice picture of visitor attractions with educational value in the city. I am particularly thinking of Te Papa which most members will have visited; Zealandia which was formerly known as the Karori Wildlife Sanctuary and I do hope members across the House will find time to visit that fantastic facility; and Otari-Wilton’s Bush. The Carter Observatory will be part of a network of those kinds of facilities in this city when it fully kicks in as a visitor attraction and educational facility and Wellingtonians are very proud of that. 
I too want to offer thanks here as other speakers have. Firstly I thank the Wellington City Council which has taken on the running of the Carter Observatory and will be moving forward with it. The council has put in a significant amount of funding in recent times in order to make sure the observatory will be able to reopen in 2010 and I think the city council deserves credit for having done that. Obviously the observatory is a facility that Wellingtonians have known from the past since its opening in 1941 and on to its becoming our national observatory in 1977. It is indeed an important asset and an important part of Wellington and I thank the council for its ongoing support. 
Secondly I want to thank the large group of volunteers who have done significant work at the observatory over recent years maintaining the telescopes and ensuring that people are able to visit the observatory and have a good experience there. As we all know volunteers are important in keeping a lot of institutions going in our country. The Carter Observatory is no different. 
It will be a grand occasion when the Carter Observatory reopens as a visitor attraction. People will be able to go there and enjoy outstanding facilities. The Thomas Cooke telescope is a historic 9¾-inch telescope at the observatory. I was reflecting on what people might see when they looked through that telescope. They would look up into the far reaches of the universe. I wondered which planets they might glimpse. They might glimpse something called “Planet Tolley”. On “Planet Tolley” life would look a little like the 19th century. Students would be sitting in rows learning their three Rs and there would be no sign of science. There would not be a sign of the kind of science we have been talking about today. 
Today we heard from Anne Tolley the Minister of Education that science advisers will go from our primary schools. These science advisers allow primary school teachers who are not subject experts to impart learning to students that is up to date relevant and cutting edge science. This allows students to apply in a practical context the literacy skills that they are learning. Literacy skills have to be used and applied in a practical way; that is basic teaching and learning yet today we heard that primary school teachers will have that resource away from them. This bill is about a very useful and important institution in our country and it is a great pity that on the day that we debate the bill we also learn that primary school students who we hope will visit this institution will no longer have the support of science advisers. 
This bill will allow a good institution a strong educational facility and a good visitor attraction to be created. I hope that when the Education and Science Committee looks at this bill it will look at the other recommendations that were part of the report about what should happen with regard to the national observatory. I hope that some discussion will happen about that and some funding will be found for it in the future. 
As the MP for Wellington Central I tell members that they can rest assured that Wellington will continue to be a centre of visitor and educational attractions and it will be proud to have the Carter Observatory here. 
LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupo) 
: 
 I am delighted to speak in support of the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. It is very timely as 2009 is the International Year of Astronomy so it is great to see support for a national icon. Of course speakers before me have acknowledged the support from the observatory’s namesake Charles Rooking Carter who gifted his estate to the Royal Society of New Zealand. 
We are now moving into the changes to the Carter Observatory which will delicately combine science education and tourism. I acknowledge the previous Government for providing the necessary financial support to the observatory and also Wellington City Council for taking up the challenge and in effect recreating the Carter Observatory and taking it into its new life as a scientific educational and tourist icon. The plan is for the observatory to be opened in February next year. It is fascinating to think that the observatory is a place where people could get married as well as visit as tourists or in school groups. There have been quite a lot of stories of people’s encounters with the universe but I like Mr Grant Robertson am unfortunately of the era that was not around when man first landed on the moon. 
Just before I close this evening I will reinforce how important this observatory is for education and how important it is for schoolchildren to experience these observatories firsthand. It was only last year that my 10-year-old boy had a school trip to the observatory in Hamilton and I went with him. The school is a small country school. It was incredible not only to see the expressions on the faces of these children as they looked out into the wild universe but also to see the surprise of some of the parents who had never had the opportunity to gaze into space into the wonder and delight of the universe out there. 
I say that this is a fantastic opportunity: not only will science and astronomy societies get to enjoy the Carter Observatory but it will also be new tourism infrastructure to add to Wellington City. As Mr Robertson pointed out the building at the top of the Cable Car is another tourist attraction that both locals and international visitors can enjoy as well as a place where students and scientists alike can go to study. I will say one last word in departing and in support of this bill in its first reading. I invite my parliamentary colleagues during this long weekend coming up not just to pick daisies and smell roses but also to spend a moment in the evening enjoying the night sky and the wonder of the universe. Thank you. 
Bill read a first time. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport) 
 on behalf of the  
Minister of Research Science and Technology 
: I move  
That the Education and Science Committee consider the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill that the committee report finally to the House on or before 20 November 2009 and that the committee have the authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during questions for oral answer) and during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House despite Standing Orders 187 and 190(1)(b) and (c). 
Motion agreed to.