McKee Nicole; Hipkins ChrisNICOLE McKEE (ACT): Thank you Mr Chair. Minister I was looking at the key performance indicators (KPIs) in the Budget and they focus on what I would call business as usual (BAU) including when we look at those statistics to be captured for pistol shooters or what I would call dealer BAU. It has extended licensing processing which was originally at 30 days. In the last Budget it was increased to 60 days and it's now gone through to 90 days. Another assessment goal is on following up expired licences giving that a time frame of 60 days—and for those at home that's when a firearms licence has expired and the holder has not yet contacted police. The police actually need to go and check on them—actively find them—and check on the status of them and any potentially illegally held firearms that they may now have. This is really important. If we recall 13 years ago we had the Jan Molenaar incident where he was not checked upon and was in possession of illegally held firearms which he then used against Constable Len Snee wounding three others as well as taking the life of Constable Snee. No one had checked up on him so I can see this—but this is BAU stuff. This is stuff that had been identified 13 years ago as needing to be checked up on. We have an increase of $208 million going into firearms and yet no KPIs whatsoever on how we are going to assess that particular spend what we are assessing it against or how we're going to have any way that we can make sure that the firearm owners are feeling that that $208 million is actually going to address illegal firearm use by gang members and by those whose licences have expired. Instead we're looking at KPIs for just BAU or business as usual. Could you talk to the communities about why there are no KPIs for that spend?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Police): I thank the member for her very reasonable questions. I know that this is an issue that she cares a lot about and it is an issue that I have been looking very closely at. The member will be familiar with the fact that we have a challenge in the way firearms licensing operates in New Zealand as a result of a decision by Government several decades ago to move from lifetime firearms licences to licences that need to be renewed every 10 years. The result of that is that every 10 years we get a spike in the number of people applying to have their firearms licences renewed and whilst the age profile of that particular group that particular cohort is suggesting that eventually that would dissipate the reality is there's still probably several decades more if we don't do something to flatten the curve and smooth that out. I think the way things operate now where the police have to resource up every 10 years for that spike and then potentially resource down isn't really a sustainable model. We do want to reach the point where we actually have a relatively flat line in terms of the number of firearms licence renewals that occur every year because then the police can resource that appropriately. All of the systems and processes that are in place can be robust and I think that there is a better way for us to get to that point than what we're doing at the moment. So I am looking very closely at that—to acknowledge the member's previous questions. I do think that that's likely to involve some legislative intervention in order to be able to achieve that because there are a number of issues that we need to grapple with. One is we need to find a way of flattening out that curve. The second is we need to make sure that those who have applied for their firearms licence to be renewed don't become non-compliant during the period of time it takes for them to have their licence renewed. That is something I am acutely aware of and I am acutely aware that that problem will increase exponentially if we don't do something in the next sort of 12 months or so as we head into that next peak and I absolutely accept the offer from the member—and I think from the National Opposition as well—that we need to work together as a Parliament to make sure that we find a pragmatic solution to that relatively quickly to give those firearms owners certainty including on things like them not having to transport their firearms because they are technically outside of their licence period and so on. So I think there are some pragmatic solutions that we can find to that. Obviously there's a Cabinet process to go through before I can set out the details of how I think that will look but I'm relatively confident we can find a solution that's pragmatic sensible and protects our legal licensed firearms – owning community.In terms of the KPIs obviously processing and KPIs around processing will be easier to have in place once we flatten that demand curve out so that there's a more even level of demand. It's very difficult for the police when every 10 years they have to go through this peak so if we can as a Parliament find a solution that stops them having to deal with that then actually I think the KPIs around that and around the practical enforcement measures that go with that—for example people whose licences are not renewed or for whatever reason their licences are taken away—then actually the KPIs that will flow from that I think will be much easier to define.