Henare PeeniHon PEENI HENARE (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector): Tēnā koe Mr Chair and thank you for this opportunity. Can I make this introductory comment to the honourable Minister Whaitiri: it's no coincidence that the customs department have certainly cracked down on a heck of a lot of the goings on on the border since the Minister in the chair has taken over and I congratulate her and of course this bill. There are some questions I have about this bill and the other side while they might laugh and say that we're filibustering are going to actually pay a heck of a lot of attention to this particular bill and the clause I'm about to speak to because they now have a Māori leader.Matt Doocey: Ha ha!Hon PEENI HENARE: What I want to talk about particularly is actually clause 205. The member Matt Doocey won't know what that clause is but let me explain that to him.Hon Amy Adams: Matt Doocey's forgotten more than you know buddy.Hon PEENI HENARE: Clause 205 is the Use of dogs and other aids" and while that might seem trivial to the former Minister of Justice let me explain. Subclause 2 says here: "However neither a Customs officer nor any other person may use a dog or aid of the kind referred in subsection (1) in a private dwelling or marae". Remember that please on the other side. With a Māori leader you'll be visiting a marae no doubt soon. In this particular clause it refers to a marae and I want to take the line of questioning of my colleague here Mr Rino Tirikatene. The reason is: define for me "a marae". Today I was in Tauranga and in fact visited the great people of Pirirākau.Kiritapu Allan: Whoo!Hon PEENI HENARE: Pirirākau—Kiritapu Allan they spoke very highly of the work that you're doing in the rohe and it was a pleasure to visit the people there. Now to your common New Zealander your normal person your "Joe Average" on the street a marae would be a carved meeting house. I think that's a relatively fair assumption to be made. But let me tell this committee: a marae can actually be a heck of a lot of things. Not all marae are carved. A marae is a home. A marae is a common place of gathering. In my particular electorate in Tāmaki Makaurau a marae is a church and I refer to Te Unga Waka Marae the Catholic marae in Tāmaki-makau-rau down on Manukau Road in the heart of Newmarket. Funnily enough there is a marae there for those of you who don't know. From the outside it looks like a concrete building but in fact it is a marae.I want in the scope of the contribution made by Mr Tirikatene to talk about the definition of language there. I think it's an important thing and I'm going to go further into the use of sniffer dogs and other resources at the disposal of customs to conduct searches on a marae—on a marae.I want to continue on the definition of a marae. For most parts of Aotearoa in particular the rural parts a marae was simply a home—simply a home; a home of gathering for common purpose a gathering for community a gathering to discuss many of the issues affecting that particular community. So if I can just put that question to the Minister around what a marae and its definition exactly is in particular with respect to clause 205.In there too it says "in a private dwelling or marae except—(a) with the consent of an occupier or owner of that dwelling or marae; or (b) under a warrant." Now many of us—in particular the Māori members of this House—are affiliated to their marae. Some of us have served as trustees. We know that on our marae there is not one individual owner—not one individual owner. So if there is a group of trustees—take myself for example. In Tāmaki-makau-rau I'm a good three-hour drive from my marae—three-hour drive from my marae. How are we as trustees able to sit down and consider giving consent—giving consent to customs to conduct searches and investigations on our marae? The trustees of my marae live scattered right across the country and I wonder just about the practicalities of getting proper consent.I'll reiterate that point: there is not one owner of a marae—not one owner. On some marae there are pretenders. On some marae they might argue that they're the owner of the marae but I put to this committee and to the Minister that there is not one owner of a marae. That's going to cause some problems—not just for pragmatic reasons of course as I mentioned around customs trying to define who an owner is or how they might be able to contact them and how they might gain consent. I'll leave that in front of the Minister. The only other way is of course under a warrant and that speaks to the language referred to by the member Mr Rino Tirikatene about "controller". The mere term used here a "warrant" implies something perhaps more controller-like in so far as a heavy-handed approach to gain access to a marae—to gain access to a marae.Some of the other things—and like I said this might seem trivial to the other side but I know for a fact that on my marae dogs aren't allowed—dogs aren't allowed. In fact on most marae around the country dogs aren't allowed—dogs aren't allowed.Hon Amy Adams: Which bill are you on?Hon PEENI HENARE: Clause 205 if the member cared to listen and follow the debate and actually contribute something. That side of the Chamber has been what we call in Māoridom "wahangū"—silent. In fact some might argue they'd be dead they're that silent. Anyway to the important point—because this is important to Māori and in fact with their new leader it's quite clear that that member lost the leadership vote. The new Māori leader of the National Party with his whakapapa will take this seriously. To the point sir—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Come back to the bill.Hon PEENI HENARE: On many marae dogs are not allowed and I wonder if this is another heavy-handed control by the Crown or by the customs department to actually force on to a marae the use of a dog. I also wonder to myself: why would customs be searching a marae? I go to marae right across the country and I think to myself: why a marae specifically? Are we suggesting that illegal goods are being trafficked—being brought into New Zealand and being stored at marae being traded out of a marae? I'm not too sure what this implies and I've got some concerns and obviously some questions for the Minister in this respect.What clause 205 also speaks to is the use of not only dogs but electronic X-ray machines. Are we suggesting that we're going to be setting up security checkpoints on marae? One of those marae is of course Te Manukanuka o Hoturoa which is the closest marae to the airport. Are we suggesting that perhaps we set up some kind of a customs checkpoint on that marae? I'll leave those questions for the Minister.So just to recap: (1) definition of marae; (2) actual dogs on marae; (3) the practicalities of defining ownership of a marae and whether or not you can get ownership consent to go on to a marae or is it merely a case of a heavy-handed Government department—in this case customs—going on to a marae exerting their control using the definition and the language of my colleague Mr Rino Tirikatene. What are we implying by simply stating only "marae" in here? Sure it says "private dwelling"—that's relatively straightforward to me—but it also specifically states "marae". Why "marae"? I want to leave those questions on the table for the Minister to consider and for the committee to consider. Kāti ki a tātau tēnā koutou katoa."