9. Question No. 9—ResourcesJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First) to the Minister for ResourcesQuestion No. 9—Resources9. JENNY MARCROFT (NZ First) to the Minister for Resources: What reports has he seen regarding the need for more resource extraction to support New Zealand's energy security?Hon SHANE JONES (Minister for Resources): Energy security now trumps all sorts of falsehoods and woke-ism. The department of the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment determined that NZ cannot produce enough gas to meet the level of demand experienced over the last two years. The long-term gas prices will continue to follow an upward trend unless there is significant investment that can bring gas to market. There are no options in the short term despite assertions to the contrary. We're going back to granular facts. This is why the Government is overturning the dangerous juvenile ridiculous oil and gas ban. Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order Mr Speaker. As has been established in this House a number of times it is appropriate for Ministers to make comparisons with policies of previous Governments but there is no way that that commentary could be considered a factual statement. That is clearly a debatable issue and shouldn't be included in a response to a question from his own party. SPEAKER: Yeah I'd just suggest the Minister might calm some of those comments down a little bit. There was the idea that you can criticise a policy which is not out of order but some of the descriptors that were used are probably a bit borderline. Hon SHANE JONES: Speaking to the point of order. Sir what is happening with this House that the beauty of language and robust expression suddenly are turning the other side into sobbers? SPEAKER: I'm sorry that that's your opinion but it's not mine. Do you have another supplementary Jenny Marcroft? Jenny Marcroft: What reports has he seen on the consequences of the oil and gas ban on New Zealand businesses? Hon SHANE JONES: In 2018 on a distant political planet Business New Zealand issued a press statement warning that businesses would be affected by bans especially those using gas. Exporters such as Fonterra New Zealand Steel Methanex and Refining New Zealand—well that's now gone sadly—would suffer higher gas prices and a restriction of supply. This would have a chilling impact on confidence amongst domestic investors and overseas investors. They are the casualties of that historic—I won't describe it with colourful language—ill-conceived decision. Jenny Marcroft: What work is he doing to address sovereign risk for investors in resource extraction? Hon SHANE JONES: Sadly we do have members in Parliament making wild indiscriminatory threats—should democracy prevail and this side of Parliament pass a piece of legislation—that entities seeking statutory enforceable consents will have them stripped and expropriated without compensation. It is a very bleak day that members of this House feel they have the right to threaten and further undermine sovereign risk of investment. Sadly I was also sad and disappointed to hear that that side of the House will not join to save the jobs by giving better energy resilience which is currently showing—Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker. That question must fall foul of both your rulings and longstanding rulings about Government Ministers not using patsy questions to attack the Opposition but it's also full of factual inaccuracies. Nothing that the Minister has just said is true and he would not be able to verify or authenticate any of the statements that he has just made. Hon SHANE JONES: Speaking to the point of order it is beyond cavil it is beyond debate that a member admittedly gone—gone from this House—made those very statements when he was a parliamentarian pertaining to the expropriation of rights that might be gained under the proposed fast-track legislation and an offer has gone from this side of the House to that side of the House to join with us save jobs and boost energy security. That is an unassailable fact. SPEAKER: If any member of the House feels as though they have been deliberately misrepresented they know that there is a course of action they can follow. Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Well point of order Mr Speaker. That particular ruling applies to when a member feels that their statements or actions have been misrepresented. Shane Jones has been misrepresenting the actions of an entire Government of which he was part. SPEAKER: Well people will obviously pick up as you have and make their own decision about that. Ricardo Menéndez March: Point of order Mr Speaker. Beyond the sort of exchanges around the factual inaccuracies I'm still none the less quite concerned about the Minister being allowed to basically make a whole rambling answer attacking the Opposition straight off the bat and I'm just calling on you to make sure that we actually have clear constraints around that because it just keeps happening. SPEAKER: Yeah but look with all due respect this is a Westminster Parliament where there is a certain amount of that across the House. I was listening very carefully to what the Hon Shane Jones has said and in light of what I'd previously said I didn't find him to have transgressed. I know people might not like what he's saying but he's got a right to say it. Is there another question? Jenny Marcroft: Supplementary—Ricardo Menéndez March: Point of order Mr Speaker. So can I just get clarification that it's OK for Ministers to start in answer to a patsy question launching directly into political attacks on the Opposition and previous Governments? SPEAKER: Well he expressed as I recall it some disappointment about some statements made by a member and I think that that is why I made the point that if a member feels personally affected then they have a course of action. But you can't stop people speaking in this House generally and I think that's all that the Minister has done at this stage. Jenny Marcroft: What is his message to potential investors in resource extraction? Hon SHANE JONES: My message to investors is that in the unlikely event that you did pay any attention to members from the Opposition threatening to expropriate rights that may be—SPEAKER: No I think you can just—Hon SHANE JONES: No no no—that's a fact Mr Speaker. That's a fact. SPEAKER: Well it's not a fact that's on the Table here at the moment so I think it would help the order of the House if that answer was put in a different way. Hon SHANE JONES: My message to investors is that we are open for business. Obviously if you are coming from overseas there is a threshold to go through that tests whether or not not only is your investment legitimate but how it will grow in New Zealand. We need more investment to save our energy system. It is in peril. Security risk has collapsed and New Zealanders are losing their jobs because of them. Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker. Shane Jones has made several repeated allegations about members on this side potentially in a future Government breaching a contract—so cancelling a contract that had been entered into with a previous Government. That's a serious allegation of which there can be absolutely no foundation in fact because no members on this side of the House have made that claim. In fact to my knowledge the only example of that happening in recent history was the incoming National Government cancelling the order for Interislander ferries entered into by the last Government. There has been no claim on this side of the House that we would cancel contracts already entered into. SPEAKER: And I've just pulled the Minister up for making that statement. Hon SHANE JONES: Point of order Mr Speaker. I invite the Leader of the Opposition to talk to the former Minister of oceans—SPEAKER: No hang on—wait on. A point of order would be addressed in relation to the Standing Orders in relation to proceedings of the House. Hon SHANE JONES: Sir the assertion has been made that this statement has been made devoid of facts. I am responding to that assertion. I invite the Leader of the Opposition to talk to Rachel Brooking—what did she say—and the Green Party to talk to their own members about threats of expropriation. It's—SPEAKER: OK well that's—Hon SHANE JONES: —there on the public record. SPEAKER: Good—sit down. That's the end of that.