Ogilvy Bernie: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ogilvy Bernie: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:624;Page:19515] 
2.  
BERNIE OGILVY (United Future) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he stand by his statement in the House earlier this month that “Student debt may be a reason for some people to leave but as far as medical students are concerned it is a relatively minor one.”; if so why? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister of Education)  
on behalf of the 
 Minister of Education 
: Yes. There is a long tradition among New Zealand doctors of spending several years working in overseas hospitals early in their careers. There are also some areas of specialisation for which doctors have to travel overseas to complete further study. The overseas experience is good for the New Zealand health system. Of those who graduated with a medical degree in 1997 26 percent were overseas in 2001 but by 2003 that number had decreased to just 12 percent. They are clearly coming home. 
Bernie Ogilvy 
: How does the Minister reconcile his answer with the findings of a survey of first-year doctors by the Medical Association that was released today which show that 48 percent of respondents considered moving overseas specifically because of their student debt? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am not familiar with the Medical Association survey that was released today but I would make the assumption that the graduates’ intentions do not match up with the subsequent performance of those intentions as has been demonstrated with regard to the New Zealand University Students Association survey which had similar information. 
Lynne Pillay 
: What reports has the Minister seen on the average student loan repayment times for medical graduates? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I have seen a report that confirms that despite having generally higher debts when they graduate medical students repay their student loans a lot faster. Of those who graduated in 1997 40 percent had completely repaid their loans within 5 years and 60 percent had repaid more than half. This compares very favourably with graduates in other areas who have smaller loan balances but take much longer to repay. 
Craig McNair 
: Does the Minister have any concerns about the roles student loans are playing the fact that more than 44000 New Zealanders immigrated overseas in the year that ended in January and that our most educated are being driven away in greater numbers than ever before; if he is not concerned why not? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: Yes I am concerned as is the Government. That is why we have taken the actions we have. Fees were frozen in 2001 2002 and 2003. We have abolished interest on loans while students are studying and we have ensured that half of all repayments go towards reduction of the principal balance of a graduate’s loan. We have increased eligibility for allowances and introduced Step Up Scholarships that provide very generous financial support for medical students from low-income backgrounds and so on. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister has just made a statement that is demonstrably untrue. Half of the repayments going to the principal is a 1998 policy and nothing to do with the Labour Party at all. Why did he not own up to it? 
Hon Steve Maharey 
: We did it. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: We did it not those guys—in 1998. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is a debating point. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Can the Minister tell the House why New Zealand medical students pay more for their education than they would if they studied in Australia France Austria Greece Finland the Netherlands Germany Sweden or Ireland; and how does he justify the exemption from the fees maxima given on medical student fees? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am aware of the unfavourable comparison with Australia but I do not believe that the claim that such a comparison exists in relation to those other countries is in fact accurate. 
Bernie Ogilvy 
: Can I take it from the Minister’s answers that he does not think there is any problem whatsoever with the debt that medical students take on and with its effect on maintaining an adequate health workforce in New Zealand? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: No I do not believe that that assumption can logically be drawn from my answers. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Does the Minister not think it absurd that at the same time as the Minister of Health is having an inquiry into rising general practitioner fees first-year doctors are clearly saying: “My student loan means I’ll charge more for my services.” and “My debt deters me from becoming a GP.”; and will he helpfully provide this information to the Minister of Health for that inquiry? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I think the issue of subject specialisation is one for both the medical practitioners concerned and the Minister of Health. I am happy to engage in conversations with her on that matter. 
Judy Turner 
: Does the Minister agree with comments by Medical Association deputy chair Don Simmers that because of mounting medical student debt “Specialties that are perceived as lower paid such as general practice and psychiatry are much less popular with graduates.”; and when 40 percent of respondents said that debt affects their choice of medical specialty does the Minister have any concerns about how this impacts on the health workforce in New Zealand? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: One would naturally have to be concerned by that statement and I can assure the member that that will the subject of the conversations with my colleague to which I alluded a moment ago. 
Judy Turner 
: Does the Minister agree that when medical graduates increasingly report that they do not see general practice as a viable career through which they can pay back debt and the general practitioner workforce has shrunk by 8 percent since 2002 the success of this Government’s much-lauded primary health strategy which hinges on having sufficient numbers of general practitioners is being jeopardised by its blind attitude to the realities of student debt? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am of course concerned by the issues raised by the member. I would say that on issues of workforce supply this Government has a very successful record and I would expect our attentions to bear no less fruit in this regard.