Nash StuartHon STUART NASH (Minister for Economic and Regional Development): Thank you very much Madam Speaker. Well I don't even think Roger Douglas would have written that speech and he certainly wouldn't have delivered one like that in this House. This is not a return to Marxism in any way shape or form. I know David Bennett would cross the floor if that was the issue and I certainly know that Mr Bayly does not agree with that in any way shape or form.What we are talking about here is the role of the firm in the 21st century and this legislation as it stands at the moment is not fit for purpose. All that Dr Duncan Webb has done is to seek to bring companies law to meet not only the expectations but actually what is going on in companies in this day and age. Damien Smith I'm sorry mate: environmental social and governance" (ESG) is now how a number of the world's largest firms assess whether or not they are going to invest in organisations. This is not some sort of Marxist philosophy that has crept into New Zealand company law in any way shape or form. The largest venture capital companies in the world use ESG measures to determine how they are going to invest and the reason they do that is because their stakeholders demand environmental social and governance expertise.No longer is it good enough to take the Milton Friedman quote and say "The role of the company is to maximise profit for shareholders." Very very few people out of the Milton Friedman school of thought actually believe that any more. In fact Michael Porter arguably one of the greatest economists certainly one of the most influential economists of the late 20th century and the 21st century is now talking about the role of the company and saying that the role of the company is in fact to work for the community. And it all starts at the top—it all starts at the top. We've got to get our governance right if the companies are going to serve our communities. We do not get our governance right if we say that the role of our directors is to maximise profit for their shareholders. The role of our directors is to ensure that the firm meets the expectations of stakeholders and I would argue until the cows come home that the stakeholders of the vast majority of companies that operate across the world let alone in our piece of paradise are actually our communities.The interesting thing is that I actually did the week-long Institute of Directors course and they spoke about Dr Webb's bill. What they actually said is that this is going to change the way that directors are required to look at the role of the company. It's going to change the way that directors are expected to put in place the expectations of communities—their stakeholders. So to hear the ACT Party actually say that this is not necessary because it's Marxist philosophy is completely out of step with every single modern economist across the world—across the world.Hon David Bennett: Porter's not a modern economist. He's a communist from Harvard.Hon STUART NASH: Oh so Michael Porter is a communist from Harvard? Well there's one for the books! And David I know you don't believe that mate. I would also argue that one of the most influential economists these days is a woman called Mariana Mazzucato. She is talking about the role of Government. She's talked about the role of firms and she's talked about the role of ESG and also about the role of corporate social responsibility. I would challenge anyone in this House to find an organisation today that doesn't live the ESG values. I would challenge anyone in this House to find a listed company where the directors haven't got on their board minutes every single meeting "How is this company meeting its ESG requirements? How is this company interacting with its communities in a way that actually makes a difference?"So we have heard a speech from the ACT Party that we have not heard since Roger Douglas left. That's possibly a reason why they are sitting at around 8 percent. It's possibly a reason why they will get to around 5 percent. But one thing that I know is that party certainly does not represent business. It certainly does not represent our organisations and it certainly does not represent key stakeholders key investors and our communities. This is a very good piece of legislation but all it actually does is bring company law into the 21st century."