Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Madam Chair. Now the question that I have for Minister Phil Twyford and for the officials that are with him is just how much extra tax revenue—we're dealing with Part 1 here; excise revenue—will he be gathering in the three months from 1 July to 1 October when most people were expecting the second round of tax that we're talking about in Part 1 to come in because motorists will remember with horror that the extra fuel taxes came in on 1 October last year and it was the first of three years' successive increases of fuel taxes that this Government was bringing in in totality amounting to 13c or 14c extra after GST per litre for petrol and the equivalent for road-user charges. So they came in on 1 October and most people were budgeting fearfully for the next round to come in this year and for another one to come in next year. They were thinking it was 1 October because that was what it was like last year and we will have this rude awakening when we see in this legislation that it's 1 July. They've brought it forward an extra three months. So I'd be very keen to get from the Minister and from his officials how much extra revenue you're crimping or sneaking out of New Zealanders with bringing this in an extra three months earlier and then we can have a sense of just how much in totality is being collected by these taxes. I think the Minister once mentioned that it might be an extra $120 million a year but I'd be very keen just to get a sense of exactly how much he expects to be gathered from this revenue because frankly looking at the regulatory impact statement it's very hard to work out exactly what we're getting. I note the Chair's comments that this is a bill about revenue but you cannot talk in this House about revenue without the flip side of what the revenue is going to. That's the yin and the yang of the equation and if we can't understand what the money is being spent on then we don't have any sort of sound basis on which to have a discussion. So that's why it's perfectly legitimate for us to ask the question of where the money is going. But anyway in the first instance there was the—CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): You may think that but it's actually up to the Chair to decide whether that is the case and I have already spoken to a previous member to say that this is about the collection of excise. You perhaps can touch on it but I'm not expecting wide-ranging debate on that particular point. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: So am I understanding you to say that here in this House when we debate a taxation bill—effectively a taxation bill—we would only have a debate about the nature of how the tax is collected and we're not allowed to talk about what it's going to be spent on? CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): We are in the committee stage of the bill. The committee stage is—Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Yes. CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): —in general about a clause by clause debate. So we are debating the clauses of the bill. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Yes and the clause of the bill is increasing the taxes collected from the motorists and the motorists have a reasonable understanding to know what the tax is to be spent on. If we can't in the committee stage of this House discuss that then I think we're unfairly scrimping the nature of the discussion that we're having. CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): We are talking about committee stage not first second or third reading. So I don't need to give you any further clarification but continue with your call. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: So I'm looking across to the officials and I'm very interested to know what the extra three months' revenue gathered from the collection of this excise duty of 3.5c per litre plus GST imposed from 1 July 2019—only nine months after the previous increase on 1 October 2018—will be. What I think the motorists of New Zealand will be surprised and shocked to discover is that even though they may have budgeted to expect an increase in the petrol price on 1 October they will find in a rude awakening that it arrives on 1 July. So that is my question.