4. Question No. 4—FinanceHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 4—Finance4. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of Finance: What steps has he taken if any to ensure Government spending has clear outcomes and delivers good results? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): As a Government we are constantly assessing the outcomes and results from our investments. This includes the regular monitoring of core investments by Cabinet committees and oversight from the Cabinet Priorities Committee. In terms of my own responsibilities all Budget proposals are assessed by Treasury before being approved and agency monitoring arrangements are regularly undertaken by Treasury and assessed by the Auditor-General. One example of this is the programme of baseline reviews which has assessed agencies such as the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) and Defence and is currently looking at Justice and the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment. A further example is a specific team that is working on supporting the delivery of commitments made under the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund in light of the large investments involved and the need for rapid implementation. Hon Paul Goldsmith: What follow-up actions has he taken to ensure the $12 billion spent on the wage subsidy went to those who genuinely needed it since his ministerial colleague Carmel Sepuloni's office said that they were not interested in the wage subsidy fraud figures? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In respect of the second part of that question that's not an accurate reflection of Minister Sepuloni's view. What the Government has done is put in place a team of 104 investigators who have currently undertaken 6749 audits 491 of those have been referred to MSD for investigation and thus far the amount paid back to the fund as a result of all of this and the voluntary refunds amounts to $158.2 million. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has he heard of some businesses delaying invoices so that they met his wage subsidy extension threshold and if so what steps has he taken to ensure the integrity of that nearly $4 billion programme? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The audit process that's under way for the first phase of the wage subsidy scheme will be continued in the extension phase. The vast bulk of New Zealand businesses have done the right thing—made sure the wage subsidy has been passed on to their employees. Where that hasn't happened we have said that we will follow it up and chase those people down. Hon Paul Goldsmith: What outcomes did the education Minister tell him were expected by spending $87 million to send internet modems to high-decile schools for kids who didn't need them to arrive after they've got back to school? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again the member seems to think that the idea that we might actually facilitate all New Zealand children to keep learning through a global pandemic is somehow a bad thing. Clearly the member doesn't seem to think it's important that our young people are actually able to learn. The programme supported a large number of young New Zealanders to be able to continue their learning. It's an important programme and the idea that we shouldn't try and somehow or other actually improve digital access for young people—it just surprises me the member would want to go there. Hon Paul Goldsmith: What does he say to the parents at my local school in Epsom who worry about how we're going to pay for all the Government spending and debt his Government's taking on and who then see 88 modems turn up after the lockdown when the school thought they might have needed two two months ago? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I have been advised by the Minister of Education is that the Ministry of Education relied on advice that came from schools as to where there needed to be the delivery of technology. But the member does need to be a little careful about how he might explain to Mr Seymour's constituents in Epsom what's going on in spending when he and his party continue to say that they would spend and spend more. He could answer the same question himself. Hon Paul Goldsmith: How can New Zealanders have confidence that the $3.2 billion he's announced for rail since coming into office will yield better results than the $9 million spent on the Napier to Wairoa line which has had a grand total of six trains in six months? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think it's relatively rich to hear that side of the House talk about rail. What we inherited was a rail system with 50- and 60-year-old engines and wagons and tracks that couldn't be used—all over New Zealand. I'm extremely proud on behalf of all three parties that make up this Government that we're actually investing in rail and—to quote the Deputy Prime Minister—it's back on track.