Jackson Willie; Pugh MaureenHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour): Oh Mr Meager—you've got the future of Māori in your hands.Madam Speaker tuatahi e mihi ana ki a koe e te whanaunga Marama mō tō kaha ki te kōkiri i tēnei kaupapa. E kore mātou e wareware tō kaha ki te whawhai mō tātou te iwi Māori. E kore mātou e wareware. Tēnei te mihi ki a koe e te whanaunga e te tuahine.[Madam Speaker firstly I would like to acknowledge you my relative Marama for your strength in progressing this initiative. We will not forget your strength to fight for us the Māori people. We will not forget. I acknowledge you; my relative my sister.]I had the privilege of working with Minister Marama Davidson last year when she was in this area. It was a privilege to work with her in this area because her and I come from—we live in the South Auckland area. We launched her kaupapa at my marae at Ngā Whare Waatea Marae. I mihi to you whanaunga for your passion in terms of this is a thankless thankless job. I just say to that previous speaker James Meager who seemed very casual about this—Hon Rachel Brooking: Condescending.Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Condescending—yes condescending. I know there's great hopes for him in terms of te ao Māori. This is one of the most taumaha—heavy—kaupapa that we as a people have engaged in in our lives. It's been part of my life too as a former chief executive for the Manukau Urban Māori Authority former national chairman of all our urban Māori authorities. This has been one of the issues that we have traversed. Rather than insult the Opposition as I normally do I'll give that a rest—as tempting as it is to insult some of them and particularly with some of their nonsensical contributions.My mother as Marama knows was the longest-serving Parole Board member in this country—20 years national Parole Board member. My mother who was appointed by the National Government and given a damehood by the National Government Jim Bolger did all this type of mahi. My mother was as tough as they come. She was furious with some of the offenders who used to come through. There's no light touches with my mother—no light touches—and she would say Madam Speaker and to the House I'm embarrassed by what you have done and how you have offended—I'm embarrassed by it." and the judges could not hold her back. She was very clear—I just want to be serious here for a while because I think this concerns all of us. She used to say to me 98 percent of people can be redeemed and only 1 or 2 percent are evil—only 1 or 2 percent are evil. So we followed her she used to bring the—I have seen the worst of the worst of the worst come to our marae: murderers paedophiles rapists. We used to be in shock and Mum always used to say "If we don't deal with them who deals with them? They have shamed us they have embarrassed us but we still have to work with our people." So we learnt so much from my mum.These reports that you're talking about where Mum touched us—and I think the other side will be interested—is while we would be appalled at the behaviour disgusted with the behaviour of some of these offenders she would say "You know how that murderer was brought up? Under a house for 10 to 15 years." She used to say "What sort of person would that person be after being brought up and tortured under a house for 10 or 15 years?" That's what Mum used to say. So you know there are these types of kōrero that happen in these cultural reports that are so important.I was listening to Minister Costello over there. When we set up the marae justice courts Minister Costello we used to have all our kaumātua come—and I appreciate your kōrero too. We used to have our kaumātua who for years used to do this type of mahi for nothing—for nothing. They did because our people just—you know this—come to the marae and they do this sort of work for nothing and when we set up the marae justice courts we demanded that the taxpayer should pay something for our kaumātua. We demanded that. Why shouldn't kaumātua be paid in terms of giving all their time and their energy? Why should they have to do all of this and everybody else gets paid except for them?So what I'm saying to the House tonight is there's two sides to this—there's two sides to this. Of course I'm appalled by what happens to victims. I have dealt with the victims and we have brought these victims in with us as we've proceeded with our restorative justice programmes. We have told our people how they have abused and violated these people's lives—our aroha is with them absolutely—but we don't give up on our people who have inflicted the damage. It goes both ways. National whether the other side like it or not have played a major part in that too and have been part of the strategies in terms of trying to redeem people. Bill English and others have played a part in terms of seeing both sides. It cannot just be a "put them in jail and throw the key away" strategy. It cannot be. It has to work on both sides—it has to be work on both sides. And you cannot I'll say tonight you cannot keep ignoring—why are we ignoring people like Justice Joe Williams? I asked Tama Potaka that. We're talking about some of the best legal people in the business. Justice Joe Williams is the pride of te ao Māori. He's saying this type of strategy should not be put in place because in the end Māori will be affected hugely by this type of strategy.Willow-Jean Prime talked about the New Zealand Law Society Māori Law Society New Zealand Bar Association—all of them are saying that we need to tread carefully here. I ask the Opposition to consider this because rather than us getting into this level of insults—which we'll probably get into anyway eventually we'll probably get into—let's try and look at this seriously and maturely. We've got communities who are suffering. We've got our experts—like Joe Williams like Kim Workman like my mother who was honoured by the National Government—who have said this is not just about our people people who have been the victims the victims are on both sides. The victims are on both sides. And the easy way out—the easy way out—is just to go "We'll have a hard and fast ACT-type policy." That hard and fast ACT-type policy was never the National Party policy but it has become now. It was not—never. You can look back on your own books. Simon Power was holding gang conferences here for goodness sake. I attended gang conferences here run by the former justice Minister—they weren't called gang conferences I'm going overboard a bit there.Hon Member: That's not like you!Hon WILLIE JACKSON: That doesn't sound like me! You had people like Simon Power you had people like Bill English who was our man from Whanganui?Hon Marama Davidson: Chester.Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Chester Burrows. These are good people. You know you lot are a disgrace to their name—I knew I'd get to that. I mean they would hang their heads in shame looking at you lot over there. These are good National people who believe in a strategy and you lot have been duped by this useless right-wing fascist group over here: the ACT Party. You lot have been duped by them.I say tonight Mr Meager you showed so much promise in that maiden speech but you're going to the pack every other time you stand up. You're disappointing us. The journalists might have to have a rethink in terms of your future because clearly you're on the wrong track. So I say tonight—I say tonight—wake up. Wake up. There are two sides to this and it's not about just locking people up and throwing the key away.Hon Member: We're not talking about that.Hon Member: What are you talking about Willie?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: It's not about—no that is what you want to do. That's what's going to happen when you take the funding away. I want to honour and mihi to Marama Davidson who set up the framework who set up the strategy. And I've got to say to these Māori members—in particular James over there and my good friend Tama Potaka—wake up and start standing up for your people because at the moment you're disappointing us.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh): Members the Government has indicated to me that it does not wish to continue in urgency and therefore this debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.Debate interrupted.The House adjourned at 9.58 p.m."