Sepuloni CarmelHARETE HIPANGO (National): Kia ora. Thank you Mr Chair. I address the committee in speaking to Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 232 which addresses a proposed amendment to clause 14 which is in direct regard to the monitoring of the Oranga Tamariki system. Clause 14: this is where The function of the Monitor is to monitor the performance of the Oranga Tamariki system in the context of its interface with other systems." And subclause (2) is "For the purposes of subsection (1)" which I have just read "the function includes (without limitation)—". The proposal Mr Speaker and Minister is as is detailed in SOP 232 clause 14(2)(c) to insert where it says "assessing outcomes for children young people families and whānau and iwi who receive services or support through the Oranga Tamariki system and changes in outcomes over time with particular regard to Māori children and young people and their whānau."—the request for the proposed amendment is also to include "disabled children and young people." because it's well known that disabled children have particular special needs and are often overlooked—and to push to ensure that in this oversight bill as an amendment there is no oversight of addressing the particular and special needs of disabled children.I also call on the invitation that was made earlier to raise multiple issues within the opportunity to stand and address the committee. So an additional matter to SOP 232 which I've just spoken to: yesterday the Minister raised in the Chamber the importance of consultation with children and that had occurred. I'd invite the Minister to respond accordingly that there was a report prepared by her ministry dated September 2018 titled Insights from Children and Young People that is relevant to the review of independent oversight of Oranga Tamariki and children's issues. If the Minister would please explain or clarify who SV8 Consulting Ltd are which was the group that conducted the engagement in July 2018 for the purposes of providing this report back to her ministry because it's been reported that they are an "expert" group in terms of engagement with children; and why only 29 young people of a total of 1.1 million under-18-year-olds—who make up 24 percent of New Zealand's population—were consulted and that her ministry deemed that that was sufficient to report a representation of young people's views under the ambit of the September 2018 report. It's been challenged and put to the Minister time and time again the importance of inclusion of children's and the young person's voice within the detail of this legislation.I addressed the committee yesterday on a proposed SOP to clause 16 that's been dispensed with placed aside. The response being "No need for the particular and specific inclusion of children and young person's interests." I invite the Minister to explain in terms of her ministry's consultation under "expert" consultancy agency SV8 why only 29 children's views were taken into account when it has been well heard in this Chamber. The representative voice which the Office of the Children's Commission engages regularly with—VOYCE - Whakarongo Mai—was not included at any stage whatsoever and that's based on the information that they have provided to members in Opposition. Thank you Mr Speaker.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): With respect to the first point raised around the Treaty obligations in monitoring they are Treaty obligations and so they don't extend—Harete Hipango: Point of order. Thank you. I didn't address the Minister on any Treaty obligations sir.DEPUTY SPEAKER: That's not a point of order. It's an opinion—you have to sit down—and a debating point. The Minister is addressing it and so it's rather disorderly to interrupt the Minister doing that.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Thank you Mr Chair. There was mention of the Treaty obligations with regards to reference to the monitor and I just want to respond to that member by saying that that would not be the place to make mention of disability because of the fact that it is specifically about Treaty obligations. The member should know at Part 3 she will see that there is specific mention around disabled children and we can certainly traverse that when we get to that. And with regards to consultation that is not specific to this actual section either. It's not specific to this bill."