Hughes Gareth: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeHughes Gareth: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 18 June 2015. Volume:706;Page:4560. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.GARETH HUGHES (Green) to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Does he think the Emissions Trading Scheme is working to incentivise low-carbon choices?Hon TIM GROSER (Minister for Climate Change Issues): I believe that the New Zealand emissions trading scheme’s fundamentals are extremely well designed but its effectiveness depends entirely on the carbon price driving the adjustment process.Gareth Hughes: What is the Minister’s response to the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment who has said “New Zealand’s primary mechanism for reducing greenhouse gas emissions—the Emissions Trading Scheme—has been repeatedly weakened and the country’s emissions continue to rise.”?Hon TIM GROSER: That goes to the heart of the point I just made. It depends entirely on the carbon price and when the international carbon price collapsed which nobody saw coming the effectiveness of the emissions trading scheme was radically reduced. We then took measures to close the window to the importation of units and the current carbon price has rocketed from about 10c to I think between $6 and $7 yesterday.Gareth Hughes: Does the Minister think that the emissions trading scheme and the carbon price are working when New Zealand’s consumption of coal—the dirtiest fossil fuel with some of the highest carbon emissions—has increased every single year for the past 5 years?Hon TIM GROSER: Well I am in no position to agree or disagree with those figures until I have seen the data. All I would say is that in terms of renewable electricity it has been growing steadily in the past 5 years to over 80 percent and I would be actually rather surprised to find we were using more coal in producing energy; I would expect the exact opposite.Gareth Hughes: I seek leave to table data prepared by the Parliamentary Library based on the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment document Energy in New Zealand2014 from 16 June 2014.Mr SPEAKER: Order! On the basis that it is freely available from a Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment document if members want that information they can go and get it.Gareth Hughes: Point of order—Mr SPEAKER: No I have ruled on that. Does the member have a further supplementary question?Gareth Hughes: Does he think the emissions trading scheme and the country’s carbon price are working when industrial consumption of coal is currently at its highest level since 2003?Hon TIM GROSER: I do not have the data on that. What we are focusing on is leveraging the enormous strength of New Zealand’s renewable energy. I am extremely optimistic that if we take a longer-term perspective we will be able to use that to engineer a dramatic shift in other stationary energyover the next 20 to 30 years. I think that things are going in the right direction but that we just have to be very patient.Gareth Hughes: Does the Minister still consider the emissions trading scheme a success when a survey out last year found that not a single forester believes that the emissions trading scheme drives new plantings that two-thirds of carbon traders believe the scheme does not help New Zealand to reduce its overall emissions and that two-thirds of emitters said the scheme had caused no emission reductions in their company to date?Hon TIM GROSER: Once again we go back to the core point: the emissions trading scheme is not driving adjustment because of low carbon prices but the fundamentals are there. Foresters of course would like to have an additional stream of income—the highest possible would be their best-possible option. The trouble is that other New Zealanders in the form of households and companies would pay for it. There is no such thing as a free lunch here and of course the vast majority of the—from memory—1.76 million plantation forests in New Zealand was planted before anyone had heard of carbon pricing.David Seymour: Why are international carbon prices low?Hon TIM GROSER: A combination of a collapse in the global economy called the global financial crisis which was the biggest downturn in the world economy for 70 years and an inadequate responseby the European Union—I am not blaming it but it was an inadequate response—to the issuance of new units which is the dominant player in the marketby far.Gareth Hughes: When New Zealand has a lower percentage of renewable electricity generation than it did in 1980 or 1990 is he concerned that the Renewables 2015 Global Status Reportpublished just this morning ranked New Zealand 77th in the world for renewable energy policies?Hon TIM GROSER: I am aware of the old saying that every senator is entitled to his or her own statistics. The one that I follow is the simple one that says that New Zealand has over 80 percent of its electricity coming from renewable energy. I know that there is huge potential to increase that proportion. We are aiming for 90 percent and the issue will be: is there going to be demand for electricity given the increasing energy efficiency of this country?Gareth Hughes: With the Pope joining the chorus of leaders across the globe calling for urgent climate action does the Minister not—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Allow the member to continue with his question please.Gareth Hughes: Thank you Mr Speaker. With the Pope joining the chorus of leaders across the globe calling for urgent climate action does the Minister not think that National’s track record of a 13 percent increase in net emissions is becoming a worldwide embarrassment?Hon TIM GROSER: I am receiving a great deal of informal advice to be very careful how I respond to this question. I shall be watching the encyclical with great interest.