Logie JanJAN LOGIE (Green): I would like to thank the Minister for Social Development for standing and taking a call on this because it is good to engage on the substance of what we are debating. However I must say that I found the statements of the Minister rather confusing if I am honest. We are being told on one hand that this is going to take 4 to 5 years that the Minister does not want quick fixes that she is going slowly and carefully and that she will make sure that the changes will be in the best interests of the children. Yet we are passing legislation without the content and the policy work having been done. That seems to me as if that is a process going ahead of itself and actually is being rushed and I would challenge the Minister to question herself on that point. When the response is that we cannot raise the youth justice age because there is no capacity to deal with the numbers in the system at the moment when there is the ability to phase it in through this legislation I would ask the Minister to bring us a Supplementary Order Paper to actually phase in that aspect of it. If there is not the capacity right now then let us not rush through this legislation which is going to create mixed messages and confusion within the system. Let us phase that in in a proper time frame so we can do it all at once in a way that is consistent and does honour the wholeness of those young people. Also I really do take exception to the Minister giving us examples about what might happen from the delegated powers. I acknowledge as the first point around that that this legislation as it is written at the moment enables the wholesale delegation of what are currently Child Youth and Family social worker and police powers. And they could be delegated to anyone and they could be any of a large number of powers including the uplifting of children and the search of houses. They are very very significant powers. The Minister has told us that Well yes that work hasn't been done yet but that is OK." and that on some of the issues we should just trust her despite the fact that the State Services Act guidance tells us that legislation should not enable the wholesale delegation of powers—but we should trust her because there is the possibility that iwi may be able to take on these roles. So those of us who are concerned that 60 percent of children in care currently are tamariki Māori—and I would challenge anyone in the Committee to suggest that that does not show that institutional racism exists within our system at the moment. So OK we will enable iwi to be able to work with whānau and to me I am actually OK with that. But what we have seen in the consultation to lead us to this legislation is that the expert advisory group consulted—and it said that it consulted with 200 people. The only people in that list identifiably from iwi or even from Māori social services—there were nine. Nine out of 200.So tell me how that is in any way going to lead to a Treaty-based solution. You throw it out there that this will enable iwi to be able to care for whānau when there is so much deep concern that tamariki Māori are being taken and severed from their whakapapa and their families. You throw it out there that this will enable iwi to be able to work with those whānau when there has been no decent consultation. There is not even a sniff of partnership in the process to this point. I think that is dishonest and I will not accept that. The Green Party does not accept that we should be passing legislation without any specificity on the promise of something that is not matched by evidence or practice up to this point. That is frankly unacceptable."