Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumePeters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 05 November 2013. Volume:694;Page:14315. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) to thePrime Minister: Does he have confidence in the advice his Ministers receive from Government departments?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): As Prime Minister I do not see or receive all the advice provided to Ministers by Government departments. I do however have confidence that Ministers are generally well served by their departments but that does not mean of course that the Government always agrees with departments’ advice.Rt Hon Winston Peters: How can he have any confidence in for example Treasury when it has urged the Deputy Prime Minister to tell the Minister of Education to scale back policy and to sneak through education changes in order to minimise public opposition?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Treasury like all Government departments provides a lot of advice to Ministers. Ministers sometimes accept it and sometimes they reject it.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Ah so you accept it then. Thank you very much. Was the advice received by the Deputy Prime Minister the Hon Bill English urging him to rein in Minister Parata and advising how to spin education changes to the public requested by the Deputy Prime Minister or his staff; if so how long has Treasury been advising his Government on spin and how to deceive the public of the country?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I have not seen that advice. You would need to put the question down to the Minister of Finance but I would be very surprised if Treasury used the word “spin”.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I seek leave to table a press statement to relieve the Prime Minister of his surprise which says precisely that.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the source of the press statement?Rt Hon Winston Peters: The press.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is a public statement. It is in the public arena.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I seek leave to table the register of ownership of Tower Insurance. The Leader of the Opposition might find that ASB does not own any shares in it.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there anyone opposed to that course of action? There appears not. Leave is granted.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Hang on. [Interruption]Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am trying to hear.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Well first of all—Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Has the member got a supplementary question?Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. First of all how about dealing with my request to table a document?Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is in the public arena.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Then you can show the Prime Minister deference; after you have dealt with the business of the House first.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have already ruled on that.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In relation to that point of order last week the Speaker—I think it was in relation to Mr Cunliffe—ruled that where a member’s word was called into question evidence could be tabled even though it was in the public arena if it refuted directly and backed the member’s word. The Speaker did allow that.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is a matter of dealing with each case as it actually comes along. You are calling for an instantaneous response and I think that on balance I got it right on this occasion. I will stick by that.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well I have dealt with that point of order.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I am not challenging your ruling but you may or may not be aware—and it was me who put this to the Speaker last week—that discussions had occurred with him Mrs King and me about this very point. He agreed to consider the procedure and agreed to put it into place as he did with Mr Cunliffe. The ruling as I understand it was that if a claim was made and that was refuted and a member had say a press statement that backed up the quote or a press clipping that backed it up or a documentation that was in the public arena then in that case the Speaker I think in the last session allowed it.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: It was a press statement that was available to members; it was not an opportunity to make a statement. The tabling of a document is to inform the House not to make statements. So if the purpose is to actually release a press statement that is in the form of a statement it is moving beyond the bounds of what is acceptable.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. To clarify what you have just said—all I did was get up and say that I wished in an effort to remove the Prime Minister’s doubt about the existence of this document to present a press statement after he raised the question as to whether it existed.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: The issue though is that the press statement is already released and available and the member is using that in the purpose of making a statement. I thought we were clear about that.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Has the Prime Minister received any advice from officials on who the top 20 shareholders are in Tower Insurance?Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Standing Orders are very clear that the Prime Minister has to have some level of ministerial responsibility for a question like that.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will uphold the point of order. The Prime Minister does not have ministerial responsibility for that.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am asking a supplementary question in respect of the question that asked whether he has confidence in the advice his Ministers receive from Government departments. I asked what advice he has had from officials about a particular matter.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: In relation to the ownership or the shareholding of a company that the Government does not own and I have ruled that the Prime Minister has no responsibility for that.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would ask you to think very carefully—[Interruption]Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! A point of order is being heard. Silence!Hon Gerry Brownlee: I would ask you to think very carefully about whether you should rule out of order a question that seeks to understand whether the Prime Minister has received advice about a shareholding in a company or for that matter advice because you would find I think that there will be other circumstances. There was evenan issue brought up earlier today by the Opposition that would mean the Prime Minister is immune from answering questions about some of these matters.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Government has no responsibility for Tower Insurance shareholders and I have ruled on that aspect.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question that is on the sheet the primary question talks about confidence in advice from officials. Officials give advice on a range of things. I am simply asking whether he has had advice about who are the top 20 shareholders in Tower Insurance and I am doing that because the Leader of the Opposition has made a completely unsubstantiated comment—Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. He has moved well outside the boundaries of a point of order.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! We already have a point of order. I will hear the member.Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have heard enough from the member. [Interruption] Order! I really do not need any assistance. I have ruled on this matter. This came from a primary question that was in the broadest possible sense and we are moving on. I have ruled that the Prime Minister has no responsibility for the shareholders of Tower Insurance and that is the way I interpreted the question.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask him any question that related to responsibility for Tower Insurance. I asked him about advice that he had had from officials. If that is ruled out of order the Prime Minister becomes immune from all sorts of questions from the Opposition. I do not think that is good for Parliament.Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There are two points in relation to this. The first of these is that you have made a ruling and it has now been challenged by the Leader of the House three times. Members on this side of the House have been thrown out of the debating chamber for exactly that point. There is no justification for the Leader of the House to continue in this way.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The question I am answering here from the Rt Hon Winston Peters is in relation to advice. [Interruption]Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Silence!Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The question I have got here on the sheet from Mr Peters is in relation to Government advice. The member has asked me a question about advice I received from officials. That has to be in line. Secondly in just the question before that Metiria Turei asked Steven Joyce a question about advice in relation to Skycity. He was expected to answer that and the Government has no ownership of Skycity.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am standing on the ruling that I have made in that we have moved completely beyond where the primary question was.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Has the Prime Minister received any advice during question time today that would lead him to believe that the allegations made by the Leader of the Opposition were incorrect?Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That question is out of order for the same reason that you ruled the previous question out of order. The member is now trifling with you and you should eject him from the Chamber if he continues.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will determine whether or not it is in or out of order.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: During question time we heard Mr Cunliffe say basically what sort of bozo would not know that ASB owned Tower Insurance. For the record I have received some advice about the top 20 shareholders. For instance No. 1 is Tea Custodians No. 2 is Accident Compensation Corporation—Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister is traversing material that you have just ruled out of order in this House. I cannot understand why it was out of order before and now it is in order. I would ask for your ruling to be consistent on this matter.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are going to move on—Hon David Parker: Has he received any advice that ASB in fact owns Sovereign Assurance?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Ah yes. Thank goodness! The Opposition spokesman on finance knows something even if the leader is completely misguided. Yes it does own Sovereign and—hold on—let us get to the better bit. Let us replay the video of when I answered the question which was: “It’s not very smart to be a bank like Kiwibank lend money and then issue fire and general insurance against that.” at which point the Leader of the Opposition got to his feet. Sovereign provides life insurance and the way he is going he will need life insurance I reckon.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Is this a point of order?Rt Hon Winston Peters: It is a point of order. A serious development has crept into this Parliament and it is that a number of people in this Parliament without anything so much as an appreciation of what is going on just wantonly clap when their leader sits down. Now thankfully—[Interruption] No no no no.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am on my feet. [Interruption] Order! That is not a helpful point of order.Rt Hon John Key: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can I suggest to the member if he did not kick people out when there was no cause to do so they might still clap for him.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Point of order—Hon Gerry Brownlee: No I have got one here.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have acknowledged the member Gerry Brownlee for a point of order.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I am concerned about the ruling that you gave earlier. I am simply as members often do asking—Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: For consideration?Hon Gerry Brownlee: Particularly in light of the question that was allowed from the Hon David Parker.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will give the matter some consideration and bring a finding back to the House.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Mr Speaker I want to know why you—Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is this a point of order?Rt Hon Winston Peters: Yes it is. It is a point of order. Why did you give the Prime Minister licence to make that claim as a point of order when he knows full well that unlike him we do not prop up crooks?Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That is not a point of order.Brendan Horan: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Look excuse me for a moment. Points of order will be heard in silence. The House is in a very fractious mood but we will abide by the tradition of the House that points of order will be heard in silence. If members continue to interject during points of order some of them will be taking an early shower.Brendan Horan: I would like clarification from that member—whether he was referring to me.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: No that is not a point of order.Brendan Horan: Well I take offence at that member’s last comment.Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: A point of clarification is not a point of order.