Reti Shane; Hipkins ChrisDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei): Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you to the Minister for that—that would be very useful. He mentioned that we know more now than we did then around the coronavirus response meaning several months ago and that's probably true but I would contend that around asymptomatic testing which came up in Estimates—the Minister said Then there's an element which is asymptomatic testing which is looking across the whole system". And if I look back on 4 March Minister David Clark stood in the House just over there and said to the House that coronavirus is not transmitted by people who are asymptomatic. How could that be true when expert modelling for the ministry a week earlier had told him that at least 48 percent of positive tests could be asymptomatic?Then of course as the knowledge progressed in April we know from written questions that there were then 15 asymptomatic cases and in my view played around with the words "pre-symptomatic" and "asymptomatic". That sort of came to me for a while which I think just confused everything—that is "pre-symptomatic" meaning they were on the way to infection; "asymptomatic" meaning never going to get it. Well that's playing with words. Then on 9 June the ministry took up the programme of testing asymptomatic arrivals completely at the border. So I have some angst that way back then way back in March—in fact two days in a row—the Minister stood in this House and said asymptomatic people cannot catch coronavirus. I just don't accept that we didn't know that knowledge there. Does it help us here today? Maybe not but just to talk to the point where he said we know more now and so we're better—we actually knew back then.I want to talk to one of the points the Minister raised around vaccines. Correctly in my view we introduced the flu vaccine earlier this year so that people who developed flu symptoms one—let me say that again: so that people hopefully didn't develop the flu that could look like coronavirus firstly; and secondly so they didn't consume hospital resources or primary care resources. That was the correct decision. We deliberately give the flu vaccine at a certain date because the immunity has six months. We brought it forward two weeks. My question to the Minister is—and that was to our vulnerable high-risk population—is our vulnerable high-risk population going to run out two weeks early this year while we're still in flu season? And have we ordered vaccines? Are we planning on doing a second run of flu vaccine to all our high-risk people at the end of this year?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Health): With regard to the first part of the member's comments the advice that I have now which was similar to the advice that we received at the very early phase of our COVID-19 response is that yes it is possible for asymptomatic people to have COVID-19 but they are much much less likely to be spreading it to other people. And that remains the advice as of now: the spread is much more likely if someone is showing symptoms than if they are asymptomatic. There are no certainties here so it is still possible but much much less likely.With regard to flu vaccines one of the challenges that our early vaccination campaign has provided is that we are seeing many many fewer people presenting with flu-like symptoms at the moment. Of course that has an impact on our desire to see a good rate of community surveillance testing because fewer people are presenting with those symptoms in the first place whereas if we had the typical seasonal rates of infection there'd be more people being tested for COVID-19. So it creates some interesting challenges. I still think our testing rates are too low and the member and I have had this conversation before. We're leaning very heavily on Health to make sure we get those numbers up to a level where we can be confident.In terms of whether a second vaccination round is planned no there is no intention at this point to do a second immunisation round for flu vaccines."