English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:641;Page:11260] 
5.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: Does a document need to be either supporting or opposing the election of parties or candidates in order to be counted as an election advertisement under the Electoral Finance Bill; if not why not? 
Hon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 As I have said in a previous answer to the member clause 5 of the bill sets out the definition of election advertising. Alongside advertising that specifically mentions parties or candidates the definition covers material that encourages or persuades people to vote for types of parties or candidates with reference to views positions and policies. It also covers advertising that takes a position on a proposition associated with a party or candidate. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is it the case that since I asked this question last week the Minister has now read the bill and how did it escape his notice and the notice of the whole Cabinet over an 18-month period of policy making that the definition of an election advertisement includes anything that takes a position on a proposition with which one or more parties is associated; does he stand by that as Government policy? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The member clearly is not paying attention. The intent of this bill is not to hinder organisations that are going about their normal public awareness raising and educational activities—I made that point to the member previously—but rather to ensure that in the context of an election campaign activity that is reasonably described as campaigning is appropriately covered. Failure to provide this protection leaves our electoral system at the mercy of those who would seek to undermine it in the sort of way we saw in 2005 with the National Party endorsing a $1 million secretive campaign. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is the Minister aware that the exemption for the media from the definition of “election advertisement” is quite narrow and for instance a newspaper website as opposed to the newspaper itself may not be exempt and journalists’ blogs such as those that are regularly published now will certainly count as election advertising? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: As I think a number of my colleagues have urged the member the place to go to have detailed examination and speculation and to seek expert advice about the interpretation of various clauses of the bill is the select committee. The member got up in the course of his question and said “maybe”; the member is speculating. The place for that debate and discussion is in the select committee. I have absolute confidence that the select committee will add to the value and accuracy of this bill. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Minister think this legislation would have been necessary if there had not been such wholesale abuse of the electoral laws in 2005 in particular by an alleged chauvinist racist group called the Exclusive Brethren— 
Hon Members 
: Pay the money back! 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: —which was happy to associate with the National Party a party which has still not paid its GST but has the effrontery to call that out to us? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: There is no doubt that the genesis of this legislation was the discovery that the rorts that were possible under the legislation in 2005 perpetrated on our electoral system by the National Party and its friends in the Exclusive Brethren necessitated changes to our electoral law. I can say to the member—because he clearly has not got to page 54 yet—that clause 103(2) does help to address the issue of GST which the member clearly needs assistance with. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is it now the Minister’s position that after 18 months of policy making extensive Cabinet discussion and the personal interest of the Prime Minister he cannot as Minister of Justice answer a question in the House about whether the exemption for the media from the election advertisement provisions includes websites or journalists’ blogs and that given that the Government has no idea it will now require the select committee to work that out? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I withheld from making this point of order. We have just heard Bill English ask his question largely in silence but by way of contrast I say that when I asked mine there was a barrage from about 20 people on my right and you did nothing whatsoever to stop them. I am asking for the same rules to be applied no matter where the question is asked from in this House and I ask what you propose to do about that last comparison. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member. I did ask members to observe courtesy to other members to ensure that they are heard by other members in the Chamber. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: As I have said to the member on a number of occasions the critical issue here is whether the matter that the member is referring to is and seeks to be election campaigning during the regulated period. The intent of this legislation is to ensure a level playing field. A neutral referee is provided for in this legislation to exercise judgment on those matters. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Where does it say that? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The question really should be why the National Party does not want a level playing field and a neutral referee to make those decisions in our electoral system. 
Hon Bill English 
: Has the Minister bothered to read the definition of “publication” which includes the following provisions: to “(c) send to any member of the public by any means; or (d) deliver to any member of the public or leave at a place owned or occupied by a member of the public;” which in practical terms means publication is anything except shouting across the street. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The member’s assertion is clearly wrong—the last statement. 
Hon Bill English 
: No it’s not. I read it from the legislation. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The member’s statement that it covers anything except shouting across the street is clearly wrong. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm he is having difficulty in explaining Government policy and this bill to the House and why does he think that the people charged with the enforcement of this legislation being the police are in any better situation than the Minister of Justice—who has had 18 months to think about it—to make interpretations? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I am having no difficulty in explaining to the House that the purpose of this legislation is to prevent the sort of rort that Mr Key and the National Party were determined to perpetrate on the people of New Zealand in 2005. It cannot be allowed to happen again.