English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 24 July 2007. Volume:640;Page:10602. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
8.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: Which parties did he consult with before introducing the Electoral Finance Bill? 
Hon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 The Government consulted members of the Justice and Electoral Committee at the early stages of the forming of this bill. Represented on that committee were Labour National the Greens the Maori Party and ACT. Since then consultations and briefings have been held with New Zealand First the Greens United Future and the Maori Party. The bill is now of course available to all parties to consider and for referral to the select committee in order to enable full public debate of the bill. I invite members opposite to facilitate that. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that the bill was written by Labour for Labour and that it hands a huge advantage to Labour in 2008 by restricting any advertising by Opposition parties or by interest groups and third parties throughout the entire year which is a set of rules that is unprecedented in New Zealand? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: No I cannot confirm that. What I can confirm is— 
Hon Members 
: Read the bill! 
Hon MARK BURTON 
:—I can assure members that I am very familiar with the bill—that the bill extends precisely the same requirements and restrictions to the Labour Party as it does to every other party. It brings us more into line with best practice established in similar jurisdictions to ours such as the United Kingdom where a 12-month cap period applies. 
Charles Chauvel 
: What specific new measures does the bill contain to address the type of undermining of the electoral process by secretive wealthy interest groups that was evident in the 2005 election? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: Madam Speaker—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. When questions are asked all members in the House are entitled to hear the answer. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: One of the new measures is that third parties will have to notify the Chief Electoral Officer of their involvement in election activities if they intend to spend over $5000 nationally or $500 in a constituency. There will be a $60000 limit nationally and a $2000 limit in any one constituency for third parties. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Unless you’re a union. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: No including the unions. Clearly defined rules on third-party election activities will mean that third parties can continue to have their say on issues of concern but at a reasonable level. In 2005 New Zealanders— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In the interests of fairness I think I should point out to you that there is a person asleep in the press gallery. You know what a sin that is for the rest of us here. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member has been here long enough to know that that was not an appropriate intervention. We do not refer to members in the gallery. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: That would after all be an unfair thing to do! I can say that in 2005 New Zealanders were shown that our electoral system was not as safe from abuse as most had believed it was. The public will be able to see who is behind third-party political campaigns because this bill establishes fair and transparent rules around campaigns from third-party friends of the National Party. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is the Minister aware that the limit of $60000 that he is applying to all interest groups for the whole of an election year is not much more than the cost of a full-page ad in a handful of our newspapers and can he confirm that the only possible reason for that in 2008 is to suppress criticism of the incumbent Government? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I most certainly cannot confirm that. What I can confirm is that the limit is to ensure that the sorts of groups that sought to rort the last election and buy a result will not be allowed to get away with that in future. Ordinary New Zealanders deserve a contest of ideas not a contest of rich people’s bank accounts. 
Dr Pita Sharples 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker. Tena tatou katoa e huihui mai nei i te Whare i te ra nei. Kei te marama te Minita i hui maua ko ta matou Kaiarahi Tari me te Kaiarahi Tari o Te Ropu Reipa i te hapahi o te 9 o te ata i te 5 o Paenga-whawha 2007 ki te korero i Te Pire Putea Poti engari kua panui ke ki te niupepa  
Dominion Post 
 i taua ata o te 5 o Paenga-whawha 2007 a ka taea e ia te ki i muri mai i era momo whaki korero koi ra te ahua o te whakawhiti whakaaro? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Is the Minister aware that a meeting was held at 9.30 a.m. on Thursday 5 April 2007 between the chief of staff of the Labour Party myself and the Maori Party chief of staff to discuss the Electoral Finance Bill which had already been leaked to the press that morning in a  
Dominion Post 
 article; and would he say that informing after that leak was consultation? 
] 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I am not sure what ministerial responsibility I have for that particular meeting but yes I am aware of it. Certainly I would regard that as an engagement with the Maori Party of a type referred to in one of my answers. 
Darren Hughes 
: Can the Minister tell the House which political parties in Parliament have asked him for a briefing on the Electoral Finance Bill? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I think a number of parties—I referred to them in the principal answer—have already received a briefing either because they have asked for it or because they have been offered it. To the best of my knowledge neither the National Party nor the ACT party has asked for a briefing at all. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that the effect of his legislation is that in an election year from 1 January for up to 11 months of that year anyone who wants to publish anything that is critical of the Government will be subject to tight rules and tight spending caps the likes of which we have never seen before but that the Government will be free to run multimillion-dollar large-scale taxpayer-funded advertising campaigns on any or all of its policy and that that is the intention of the legislation? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: Where do I begin? [ 
Interruption 
]  
Madam SPEAKER 
: If members ask a question they presumably wish to hear the answer. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: No; again the member is clearly wrong. What I can confirm is that any third party that wishes to engage in the election campaign process will be constrained by spending limits. Given the spending rorts that we all saw in 2005 by those who sought to get around the law as it stood that is desirable in order to ensure that the right of New Zealanders to have an open and a fair democratic process is preserved. 
Dr Pita Sharples 
: Mai i te 5 o nga ra o Paenga-whawha 2007 he aha ake nga hui kua whakatungia i waenganui i te Minita me nga ropu MMP hei wananga i Te Pire Putea Poti a he aha ai i makere mai te Pati Maori i te rarangi tono? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
What other meetings has the Minister had with MMP parties since 5 April 2007 to discuss the Electoral Finance Bill and for what reason was the Maori Party dropped off the invitation list? 
] 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I cannot give the member the dates of the meetings I have had or that my officials have had off the cuff. I can say to the member that it was not a matter of dropping anyone off or in; it was about putting together a bill for this House to consider. The question is whether members of the House will support the bill in order to give New Zealanders the opportunity to consider it submit on it and even—possibly—improve it. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Kia ora Madam Speaker. Ko te mate ke kaore au i tino rongo i te whakautu o te Minita e taea ana e koe te patai ki a ia kia korero ano i tana whakautu? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The problem is that I did not hear the Minister’s response. With respect would it be in order for you to ask him to repeat his answer? 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the Minister please repeat his answer. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I think in essence I cannot give the member off the cuff the dates of the meetings I have had or others have had on my behalf. But I can say to the member that it was not about dropping people in or out of consultation. It was about bringing together a bill that would enjoy the support of sufficient numbers of members of the House to be referred to a select committee where it can then have the full consideration of members of Parliament and the wider community. I invite members to give that opportunity to New Zealanders and to support its referral to a select committee where I am sure the bill will be further improved. 
Hon Bill English 
: Given that the Minister said I was wrong in my description of the effect of the bill can he tell me which bit is wrong: that every interest group in New Zealand will be subject to a spending limit of $60000 the cost of a full-page ad in a handful of our provincial newspapers; that that $60000 limit will apply from 1 January in an election year until the election is held; and that the bill has no restrictions on the amount of money that the Government is able to spend on multimillion-dollar advertising campaigns on any or all of its policies; and finally was I wrong when I said that that is the intent of the bill—to allow Labour to spend taxpayers’ money as much as it likes and stop everyone else criticising it? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: In reverse order my answers are: firstly no the member is wrong as I said he was. That is not the intent of the bill. Secondly this bill does not deal with parliamentary expenditure either on the part of the Government or on the part of individual members of Parliament. That matter is certainly being dealt with elsewhere. I would say to the member that members of Parliament must be able to continue to go about their legitimate business. Thirdly the spending cap limit of course applies to groups and individuals who seek to be third parties in the election campaign process—to no one else. 
Hon Bill English 
: Now that Labour is having trouble raising money and will be more than ever dependent on taxpayer-funded advertising campaigns in election year is it the case that the reason why Madeleine Setchell was sacked was that she could be too professional and competent to go along with Labour’s plan to use the bureaucracy to advertise its election campaign promises? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: That question barely warrants a reply but no I cannot confirm that.