Goudie Sandra: Protected Objects Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Goudie Sandra: Protected Objects Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:632;Page:4380] 
SANDRA GOUDIE (National—Coromandel) 
: 
 I am happy and very pleased to rise in support of the Protected Objects Amendment Bill but in saying that I raise a small concern to the Minister in the chair Judith Tizard and perhaps she will be able to give me an explanation. I am somewhat at a loss to understand some definitions in clause 6 the interpretation clause in Part 1. Subclause (3) amends section 2 of the principal Act by omitting from the definition of “collector” the word “artifacts” and substituting the words “taonga tuturu”. I wonder why someone would do that when the principal Act states: “ ‘Collector’ means any person or body (whether incorporated or unincorporated) other than a licensed auctioneer a licensed secondhand dealer or a public museum possessing one or more artifacts:”. I would have thought that the words “protected object” would be a more general or more appropriate term than just “taonga tuturu”. I wonder whether the Minister could take a call or get some advice from her officials and explain which one is the more appropriate term. That might help to clarify matters for me. I just thought that people may want to refer to protected objects in general rather than just taonga tuturu. 
Clause 6(3) further amends section 2 of the principal Act by omitting from the definition “found” the word “artifact” in each place where it appears and substituting in each case the words “taonga tuturu”. I wonder again when the principal Act states “found” and the explanation is “in relation to any artifact” and as “artifact” is changed to “taonga tuturu” then one is saying “in relation to any taonga tuturu” instead of protected object. The definition of “found” in section 2 of the principal Act goes on to state: “means discovered or obtained in circumstances which do not indicate with reasonable certainty” etc. Certainly the term “taonga tuturu” is not inappropriate and it does not incorporate the general term “protected object”. I wonder whether that is an oversight or whether it is something I do not understand. 
Clause 6(3) further amends section 2 by omitting from the definition “replica of an artifact” the words “an artifact” and substituting the words “a taonga tuturu;”—yet again. So one could have replicas of other artefacts that are not necessarily taonga tuturu. I wonder whether the words “protected objects” might have been appropriate in that context as well. 
My concerns are about changes to the definitions and the way in which they are being used to amend the principal Act by referring to “taonga tuturu” and not the general term “protected objects” and whether in fact “protected objects” should be a part of that as well. I ask the Minister to please give us an explanation certainly in discussion of Part 1 and clarify that matter so that we know whether “protected objects” should be a part of the definition of “collector” in the principal Act rather than just “taonga tuturu”. The same goes for the definition of “found” where the term “artifact” is changed to “taonga tuturu” and not the words “protected objects”. I wonder whether the Minister can give us an explanation. I note the officials are looking at that. I would be happy to rescind part of my— 
Hon Judith Tizard 
: The definitions are all in the bill. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: I know the definitions are in the bill. 
 Clearly the Minister does not want to understand what I am trying to say here. If we look at protected objects are we looking only at taonga tuturu? I would have thought taonga tuturu related only to Maori artefacts not protected objects. Therefore would the Minister not want the definition to encompass all protected objects? 
Hon Judith Tizard 
: You could look at “protected foreign object” “protected New Zealand object” and “nga taonga tuturu. They are all covered. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: But I am not seeing that in this definition here. 
Hon Judith Tizard 
: OK well read it more carefully. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: Perhaps the Minister might like to take a call and give us an explanation for that. 
Hon Judith Tizard 
: No. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: Clearly she is not prepared to do that. That is fine— 
Hon Judith Tizard 
: Read the bill. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: I did read it but it is not clear.