Mitchell MarkHon MARK MITCHELL (National—Rodney): Thank you Madam Chair. There's another question I have for the Minister in the chair the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway carrying on the theme that the Hon Gerry Brownlee was talking about. It is that when we have someone returning to New Zealand that has chosen to go and operate in a country like Syria and that has been involved—and we have the intelligence to say that they have been involved—or has been the sponsor of or has been supporting some type of terror activity they pose a risk when they come back to New Zealand. This new definition that's been introduced thanks to our friends over here in the Green Party is real risk". What does "real risk" mean because to us all we've seen is a raising and making it harder for our intelligence agencies to use the intelligence and information that they have to be able to make a case or show that someone returning to New Zealand is a risk. I'm not willing—I'm not willing—to move those tests and make it easier for someone to come back to New Zealand and walk out through the arrival gates and out into the community. I think there has to be a real test a robust test that's provided. And by the way please someone take a call—maybe the Greens could do this—and explain to us what the difference is between—Chlöe Swarbrick: Get some new material. Hon MARK MITCHELL: —the definition of a "risk" and the definition of a "real risk". Take a call Chlöe Swarbrick and actually explain to us what is the difference. What's the difference between risk and—she doesn't know. She doesn't know and has got absolutely no idea herself what that means. So someone take a call and tell us because I'll tell you what—I'll tell you what—I actually feel that if someone is arriving in our country that's chosen to travel to Syria and has chosen to associate with known terrorists and comes back to New Zealand we want to know what they're doing. We want to know what their intent is. I don't want them to walk out the departure gate at Auckland Airport and jump into a car and drive down to the Auckland Viaduct—and we've seen these low-tech attacks happen all over the world—Hon Julie Anne Genter: The only actual terrorist attack was from an Australian white supremacist. Hon MARK MITCHELL: —and go and drive into a crowded cafe and kill Kiwis right? So take a call. The Greens now apparently seem to have found their voice. Stand and take a call. If you've got an issue to make and if you want to talk to this bill then take a call and make your point. The other thing that I'd raise is quite simply this: the Police in the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee told us they were very clear about the fact that if a control order couldn't be put in place and the Customs Service could only hold the person for four hours they couldn't get surveillance in place in time. So I want to know. I want the Minister—and I've asked this question now Madam Chair and this is the fourth time that I've asked the Minister for a response and to answer in detail—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): Yep that's right—very repetitive. Hon MARK MITCHELL: Yeah that's right—it is. Have we had a response from the Minister? It's a very clear—very clear—question. It's fundamental to the purpose and the intent of this bill. It fails at the first hurdle. Not one Minister has been able to stand and give this committee a clear answer in terms of how we will get a control order in place when the police and the agencies responsible for actually using this legislation have very clearly told us through the select committee process that they cannot do it. So I think it is a very important matter.I'd like the Green Party to stand and explain to us tell us how it's going to work. I don't think you can. I don't even think you've read the bill either. I don't think you've got any understanding at all in terms of what was said. I'll tell you one thing. I'll tell you one thing.Simon O'Connor: The great experience of Chlöe Swarbrick.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Yeah that's right. I'm sorry but are we going to trust you with our national security? Forget about it—forget about it. The rest of the country aren't going to trust you either trust me on that one.I want the Minister in the chair the Hon Iain Lees-Galloway to be able to stand and explain to us the difference between "risk" and "real risk" and tell us how a control order is going to be put in place. I'm glad to see that he's getting advice. We might actually now get an answer. Explain to me how a control order—an interim control order—is going to be in place for someone that arrives at our border that we weren't already notified of. The High Court has to issue a control order before they leave the airport where they're relying on shonky legislation.The poor old Customs officials that appeared in front of the select committee tried to make the point that actually they operate under a very different piece of legislation. Tell us Minister how without breaking the law they're actually going to hold someone for four hours. Thank you Madam Chair."