Swain Paul: Income Tax Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
Swain Paul: Income Tax Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:641;Page:11287] 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 On this side of the Chamber we have all been resisting having a debate on the wider taxation policy because that is not what this bill is about. The bill is about a rewrite of the Income Tax Act in such a way as to make it simpler for people to understand. That is a good thing. We have heard very little about the fact that that was begun under a previous National administration. It was a good thing to have started and it is to be finished now under a Labour-led administration. But now that the debate has opened up a bit it is reasonable for us to engage in that. 
The first thing we learnt from Chris Tremain who is a member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee—quite a humble member—is that after 85 years of problems with regard to exporting apples from New Zealand to Australia suddenly the problems have been solved by one demonstration and by him personally together with the member for Tukituki. Humility is important but obviously it is not known in the Hawke’s Bay. But let us say it is important that the World Trade Organization situation has been taken up. 
The member also went on to talk about how exporters need more support via the taxation law and of course the strange thing we ask then is why he and the member for Tukituki decided to vote against the really important research and development changes that would have helped export industries. The Government introduced research and development changes after many— 
Chris Tremain 
: Three reasons. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Oh three reasons. 
Darren Hughes 
: The reason was that he wanted to flatten the tax rate. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: That is right yes. He wanted to flatten the tax rate. But you see the problem here is one of being able to decide the things that one supports and the things that one does not. We would have thought that given— 
Chris Tremain 
: It is all about exports not research and development. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: No research and development does help exporters as I remember the situation—but I might be wrong; I might be naive—but the point is that many industries have been— 
Chris Tremain 
: What about tax breaks? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Well people have been calling for research and development support and for a better regime and after a long period of time and a lot of consideration because there are major complicated issues there the Government did make some changes which are designed to support our export industries—and the member voted against them. 
Of course the other issue was that the Government decided to reduce the tax rate that impacts on export industries from 33 percent to 30 percent. I would have thought that the member for Napier and the member for Tukituki would support that given the speeches I hear about the importance of our export industries— 
Darren Hughes 
: They are identical speeches! 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Yes they make those identical speeches which they tend to pass back and forward between each other. I would have thought that they would vote for that move but no they voted against it. 
So the problem that people will have in those members’ electorates is that although they may not agree with everything that this very good Labour-led Government has done when there are a couple of specific initiatives that do help exporters I think people there will ask why those members did not support them. People do not understand all the hoo-ha about caucus rules and things like that. What they see is a couple of good initiatives that could help people and they will wonder why the local members did not support them—something that I am sure our people will be pointing out when it gets closer to the election. 
Darren Hughes 
: They will be too busy solving the trade issues for— 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Yes they were probably focusing so much on solving the apple thing which has been going on now for 85 years— 
Darren Hughes 
: They are so clever those lads! 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: But it was solved very very quickly—with all humility—by those two members over there. 
If we are to widen the debate out into the taxation policy issue which I now hear members over there wanting to do even though this bill has nothing to do with that certain questions must of course be asked. The first one is who would win under National’s taxation policy and who would lose. We are hearing that no one would lose under National’s taxation policy— 
Craig Foss 
: Everyone is a winner! 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Well given that we have not even seen it yet everyone is a winner. 
Craig Foss 
: You cannot wait to hear it! 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I hear members over there saying that everyone will be a winner under National. I heard Craig Foss say that everyone will be a winner. I do not think National’s leader was quite as specific as Craig Foss about that and that will be interesting later on.