Baillie ChrisCHRIS BAILLIE (ACT): I rise on behalf of the ACT Party to speak to the Health and Safety at Work (Health and Safety Representatives and Committees) Amendment Bill. It'll come as no surprise to anyone that ACT opposes this bill. Listening to the arguments from the Opposition it is really quite sad. I'm really pleased that the last speaker Tāmati Coffey is one of the only good ex-employers around but he might be really interested to know that most employers—most of them—are actually good people just like you.The name of the bill is comical even. It's lots of words needed just to set up a committee that in itself isn't needed. And it really does show how out of touch the Government is when it comes to doing small businesses working in New Zealand. Like the Plain Language Act the fair pay agreements last night I listened to the Grocery Industry Competition Bill—just solutions looking for a problem and just make it harder to do business in this country.The bill amends the Health and Safety at Work Act 2015 to reduce the size of the persons conducting business as usual from 20 down to with no limit health and safety representative or five or more workers may establish a health and safety committee". It's not going to be compulsory as was mentioned and workers may prefer to engage in less formal ways through regular health and safety meetings like they do now; like almost every business that I know—small business—does now quite happily; they don't need this. Again it's the lack of consideration of the imposition on businesses and the fact that there is no evidence that there's anything to solve and to acknowledge that productivity must be a major consideration in any legislation.I would like to thank the submitters and obviously they did fall into two separate groups. The Employers and Manufacturers Association pointed out there was no evidence to support the bill that would justify the cost and disruption to business As was mentioned before it's going to take two days training per year 105000 businesses: that's 210000 training days. Fees are paid for by the business plus you've got to replace the person who's out being trained. The lack of productivity is just immense.I heard the Government members scoffing when one of the National speakers started talking about minimum wage and the sick leave and scoffing as if "Here we go again." Absolutely no understanding of the effect that these policies are having on small businesses at all. Business New Zealand said that to impose additional and unwarranted obligations on smaller businesses at a time when many are already facing difficult economic conditions—and again it's a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.Of course we also heard from supporters of the bill. Guess who! The unions those groups who represent 14 percent of workers. Unite Union said employers "have no interest in workers' views on their [health and safety] and actively prevent effective [worker engagement participation and representation]." They forget to put any evidence at all for that statement. The New Zealand Council of Trade Unions said evidence would indicate that in the long run the change is likely to "benefit the balance sheets of small business." I don't know where they get that from; there's no evidence attached at all.On Monday I met with a workplace compliance officer to inspect the LPG tanks in my business. We went round we had a look—looked at the safety valves checked out the fire extinguishers made sure the folder was all up to date of staff training and doing what we've done every year once a year. This sort of stuff already happens—it already happens—and it's a real shame that the Government doesn't know that.Most employers and employees who I speak to think that sections 45 and 46 are the most important of the Health and Safety at Work Act. It reads: the "Duties of workers while at work" and 46 the "Duties of other persons at a workplace" must "take reasonable care for his or her own health and safety; and take reasonable care that his or her acts or omissions do not adversely affect the health and safety of other persons."It's the common-sense rule the personal responsibility rule that unfortunately just doesn't equate with the current regime. Whether it's education or committing crimes it's always someone else's fault or someone else's responsibility. One submitter who owns a small business said "This will introduce unnecessary additional compliance for small business add cost and in turn drive further price increases and inflation. There should be more responsibility and liability attached to individuals to encourage them to take responsibility for their own actions." Just so much common sense. The constant assumption from the Government that "employers are bad; employees and good" is really quite offensive. The division that they intentionally try and create is very unhelpful for business in New Zealand. Employers are good people; they care about their employees their conditions their pay their welfare and their future. Like farmers looking after their land it's in their best interests. ACT opposes this bill."