Connell Brian: KiwiSaver Bill — In Committee 
Connell Brian: KiwiSaver Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:633;Page:4951] 
BRIAN CONNELL (National—Rakaia) 
: 
 Thank you for the call. Here we are 4½ hours into this debate into the last stages and only two Government members have stood up to take a call in support of this much-vaunted legislation. Mr Jones was the only Government member on the Finance and Expenditure Committee to take a call and he did that only because he was shamed into it. He did not understand the detail of the bill but we cannot be too tough on him. I do not think that anyone on the select committee understood the detail because of the backroom deal that has been perpetrated on the House by Michael Cullen and Gordon Copeland. No one on the select committee was aware of it and Mr Jones made that abundantly clear by his lack of detail. He just did not recognise the legislation; it has changed so dramatically. 
Mr Copeland in trying to justify his deal got up and took a call to try to convince the Committee that he took his idea to the select committee and it was voted down. “Me me me”—he said—“I took the credit for it. Well I didn’t initially but now I do.” That is how I recall the sequence of events. He did not tell this Committee that it was the Labour members who did not vote in support of mortgage diversion yet he would have us believe that that is the proposition he took to the select committee. I say that it is a sad day for our democracy when a select committee can work through this issue—[ 
Interruption 
] Bopper boy—he should go back to Samoa and complete his corruption apprenticeship. 
Gordon Copeland 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I understand that under the old Standing Orders members could have a wide-ranging discussion on all kinds of matters when they debated the title but that under the new Standing Orders the debate is confined to the title. The title has not yet been mentioned once by this speaker. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: It is in fact the widest debate of the Committee stage. 
BRIAN CONNELL 
: For those who are listening that was Mr Copeland trying to do another backroom deal. He does not even understand the Standing Orders but of course we are not surprised by that. 
This Government would have us believe that this legislation will change the savings habits of New Zealanders. Well it simply will not do that. We on this side of the Chamber have made it abundantly clear why that will not happen. Mr Woolerton in his sane moments even nodded his agreement when we were making some of our fine points in the debate. He knows that this legislation is flawed and significant changes will be made to it before the next election. Why will the bill not change the savings habits of New Zealanders? The reason is that it will not change their behaviours. There are simply not enough incentives built into this scheme to do that. If we want to change behaviours we have to make it worthwhile. The only way we will increase our savings record in this country is by reducing taxation so that people have more money to invest. How on earth can someone who earns $35000 or less be able to afford to make a significant savings contribution to this scheme? It simply will not happen. 
The scheme is fundamentally flawed and the Minister in the chair Michael Cullen knows it. That is why he has been acting with such indecent haste to try to turn the bill into something reasonable. It simply fails on that test as well. There is no doubt in my mind that we will be revisiting this legislation and Mr Cullen knows it. What is of deeper concern from an employer’s perspective—and I bet anything one likes in this Chamber that it will happen—is that the union movement will start using this as a negotiating or bargaining chip when it comes to employers’ contributions to the scheme.