Barker Rick: Urgent Debates — Immigration Service—Ombudsman’s Report 
Barker Rick: Urgent Debates — Immigration Service—Ombudsman’s Report 
[Volume:615;Page:11399] 
Hon RICK BARKER (Minister for Courts) 
: 
 I want to compliment Marc Alexander on a thoughtful presentation and to say he has raised a number of sensible issues that deserve thorough consideration—unlike the speaker before him from the ACT party. I noted that there was some irony in the fact that the ACT member went on about corruption. He did not talk about Fiji or ACT members having outstanding GST or a whole range of other issues and I found it somewhat ironic that he made accusations about others of the very things that they themselves are guilty of. 
I contrast that with Marc Alexander who has looked at the issues very seriously. I do take his point about the need for openness—this Government accepts that. There is no question about that. I accept the point he raised about having independent inquiries but he would also have to acknowledge that from time to time Opposition parties will call for royal commissions of inquiry etc. believing that the bigger an inquiry is and the more status it has the more justification it gives to the accusations being levelled. In dealing with inquiries I make the point to Mr Alexander that there has to be some sense of proportion. The inquiry being conducted has to be in proportion to the issue at stake. 
The issue at stake here in terms of the New Zealand Immigration Service is the claim by the National Party’s chief strategist Murray McCully that there had been an orchestrated campaign to “lie in unison” and that it was not only amongst staff of the Immigration Service but had links to staff in Parliament Buildings and parliamentarians—it had links everywhere—and there was this huge orchestrated cover-up campaign. The point is that Mr McCully has to accept his own words and his own decision. He said on  
Morning Report 
 that he would accept the report of the Ombudsman and the Ombudsman has been very clear. He said: “I have not seen or heard any evidence that suggests or indicates that any person or persons as officials in NZIS were involved in any agreement to ‘lie in unison’.” 
So the basic claim by Mr McCully has been proven to be incorrect. Mr McCully stated that there was a conspiracy—an orchestrated campaign—to lie in unison. I repeat: the Ombudsman found there was no agreement to lie in unison. Mr McCully said on  
Morning Report 
 that he would accept the Ombudsman’s finding and that is what the Ombudsman has found. 
To be fair the Ombudsman has also directed his attention to two individuals in particular. I want to say that it would be wrong of this House to make comments about the employment status of individuals. That lies with the chief executive who is responsible for those individuals and we want to make sure that they are treated fairly under the law and that their position is not prejudiced. If Parliament starts making decisions about who should or should not be employed in the civil service then we will have some problems in this country. 
I think the report is timely and is very good and I am sure that the Immigration Service and the incoming Minister of Immigration Mr Paul Swain will take the issues very seriously. I restate the point that the Ombudsman found there was no agreement to lie in unison. Mr McCully’s basic thesis was that there was an orchestrated conspiracy to cover up and no such cover-up has been found at all. It is a welcome report. 
Hon Harry Duynhoven 
: Mr McCully is wrong. 
Hon RICK BARKER 
: Mr McCully is wrong. The issues raised by the Ombudsman are serious and the Government will take them into consideration and deal with them.