English Bill: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
English Bill: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Sitting date: 14 December 2004. Volume:622;Page:17874. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
: 
 Part 2 has more of this wishful thinking that the Government tries to write into legislation. The Government seems to believe that if it puts it into law it will happen or that somehow it elevates it or makes it more certain when it is behaviour that anyone should be involved with. Most of the provisions in this part to do with senior leadership and management capability in the public service should simply be the functions of a good employer. There is nothing particularly special about the need to ensure succession and that there is capability coming through the ranks. It does not really matter whether one is running a garage with two apprentices and a boss or running the public service the same requirements are there. So the Minister needs to explain just why he is bothered with all of this. 
It states here that the State Services Commissioner has to make sure that there are sufficient senior employees able to fill chief executive and other senior management positions. Well I have never seen a vacant one. I have never seen a department without a chief executive. Sometimes an acting chief executive fills in and sometimes it can take a wee while to get one but there is absolutely no reason to believe that legislating the provisions in clause 40 will change any of the processes for finding the right person for the job. 
I have a question for the Minister in the chair the Hon Trevor Mallard. Is this restricted to the New Zealand public service? It has had an injection of Australian capacity—I would like to call it talent but let us just settle for capacity. It has often had civil servants from the UK where there is a pretty neat fit between the public service— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Chief executive? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: We have had chief executives come from Australia. How can we tell whether the State Services Commissioner has not fulfilled the objects of the Act? Is it when there are not enough New Zealanders to fill chief executive and other leadership positions or is the whole world covered by the scope of this object as long as there is someone somewhere? This provision does not mean anything unless it can be breached and I want the Minister to tell me that. If this is a law how do we break it? If this is in legislation how does the State Services Commissioner fail in his responsibilities? How can an Opposition tell? The trouble with a whole lot of this wishful-thinking legislation is that we cannot tell whether they did it or they did not do it. 
It is like the tertiary education legislation. The Tertiary Education Commission was able to show that an information technology course given out to 18000 people on a disk when only 600 people completed it fitted brilliantly with the objectives of the tertiary education strategy and I would say that it is the same here. Whatever the State Services Commissioner does about anything to do with this public service will fulfil this law. So can the Minister tell us what he has to do to make sure that he has not fulfilled the requirements we are about to vote on? 
I am also interested in the provisions to provide advice. The commissioner has to provide advice and training on career development for staff in the public service. What has the commissioner ever done except that? That is the job. The commissioner must provide advice and guidance to employees within the State services at times that affect the integrity and conduct of employees within the State services. Well we do need that because the current State service is operating in an ethical vacuum. We had the worst example of conflict of interest in a public body that I have seen in 20 years around the public service down at Christchurch Polytechnic. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: It’s not the public service. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: It is covered by this bill. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: The member should get his terms right. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: It is covered by the broader bill and here is how it is connected. Ministry of Education officials could not see the conflict. Even though the details of it were given to them experienced civil servants like the chief executive of the Ministry of Education could not see the problem and from my questioning at the select committee the other day they still cannot see it.