Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3413] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 Let me take a call to respond to Mr Flavell. First of all I thank him and his party for their patience and goodwill and for the time they have taken to help us understand these complex issues. Let me respond to the vexed issue he mentioned. First of all let us see the problem for what it is. How do we live in a Western society with the benefits of— 
Hon Parekura Horomia 
: What a load of rubbish Rodney! Western society? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Yes. 
Hon Parekura Horomia 
: What about the other cultures? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Well that is my point: how do we live with the benefits of a Western society and a democratic tradition while respecting other values and beliefs? For myself I cannot begin to get there and that is what is so hard. Maori have spiritual views and beliefs that the majority of people cannot grasp and can easily override. We have this difficulty in local government in central government and through the Resource Management Act and its processes. We have a variety of suggestions for dealing with it such as the proposal for co-management in the Waikato. 
The royal commission came up with a proposal which was to have two ward seats and one mana whenua seat. That was problematic and complex because it did not recognise the other major tribe represented in Auckland. There was also concern about the general electoral roll being used for local body politics. Also the royal commission did not provide for Maori representation on the local councils. 
We looked very hard at the issue—and Pita Sharples was on the Cabinet committee and made an enormous contribution—but the difficulty with what the royal commission proposed was that it would not solve the problem. We felt that there is an ongoing issue that successive Governments have struggled with and that is how to adequately take into account the views of hapu iwi and tangata whenua and particularly spiritual values relating to history and to natural resources. Many of us see natural resources just as things to use not as something that is part of our history—[ 
Interruption 
] Labour members do not want to hear do they? 
I have appreciated working with Mr Flavell. I have accepted his point. I have a clear understanding that a special advisory group will not cut it with Maori. I also believe that if the Auckland Council is to succeed we have to provide a mechanism by which Maori views and particularly mana whenua views can be properly heard and taken into consideration. That is the challenge for us the challenge for councils and the challenge for Parliament. I look forward to hearing Labour’s contribution on how to do that. I am certainly very very happy to engage with the Maori Party—and with Dr Pita Sharples in particular—on this issue. I should say that it is a tough issue to consider and I am interested in hearing whether Labour’s view is that mana whenua seats should become the norm in local government. That would be a big step for local government and it is a step that would require some consideration. Thank you.