Collins Judith: Prisoners’ and Victims’ Claims Bill — In Committee Procedure Third Reading 
Collins Judith: Prisoners’ and Victims’ Claims Bill — In Committee Procedure Third Reading 
[Volume:626;Page:20968] 
JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) 
: 
 I want to put it absolutely on the record that the National Party and the other members of the Opposition—and even United Future which is not in Opposition because it supports this Government—do not support brutish behaviour within prisons. We do not support the abuse of prisoners by people in positions of responsibility and power in prisons. But we do not support the nonsense the Minister has talked today and last night—that we cannot do anything about it because the Court of Appeal said so and that we cannot do anything about it because there is an international convention. Well what about the international convention that says that a woman should be able to walk in the streets of this country without being raped? And what about the international convention that says that victims have rights too so that they can in fact become survivors? What about those conventions? What about a convention for human dignity and a bit of decency? What about a convention that says people cannot abuse their positions of power against little children? What about a convention that says people cannot abuse their positions of power against people who are in their charge? How about that? 
In this country at the moment we have a prison service that is in dire need of reform. In this country we had a model prison. It was run in Auckland and it was a private prison. We had that operating and it was a model prison. What did we get from this Government? It said we could not have the private prison because the idea was not ideologically pure. Where is all the abuse coming from? Did it come from the private prison? No it did not. Where did it come from? It came from the Government-run prison—this core service that had to be run by the New Zealand Public Service Association the trade unionists. That is what we had to have and it came from them. 
When we look back at the abuse that has been carried out in this country by big organisations against little people—such as the abuse at Lake Alice Hospital—and ask where that abuse came from we see that it came from Government-run institutions. When there has been abuse in schools where has it come from? It has come from Government-run schools. Big Government breeds big abuse against little people. [ 
Interruption 
] I say to Mr Mark that I will not get into the tennis ball thing. We know that no abuse like that by people in power against children and prisoners is acceptable. That does not however mean that those people should get money. If there is any money it belongs to the taxpayer. The very victims who pay their taxes are now paying for those thugs because the thugs have hurt feelings. That is not right. If there is to be any payment it should go into a victims fund. It should go to the victims so that they become survivors. That is where it should be. 
Marc Alexander made a very good point this morning. He said that the victims the survivors do not actually want money. They want to get on with their lives. They want their dignity restored. They will not get it restored while knowing that the killers and abusers of their children are out there getting paid for it. Do we think that the prisoners who abuse people abuse the system and then are themselves abused by abusers care what happens to their victims? 
Lindsay Tisch 
: No way. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: No they do not. If they did they would reform. We know that they are recidivists. Time and time again the same people are committing the same or worse crimes and this Government sits by and says that no matter what it cannot do anything because it might hurt someone’s feelings. I suggest that Government members get out there talk to victims and survivors in this country and tell them that they care more about them than maybe they thought. This Government does not have the courage to do that.