Mallard Trevor: Urgent Debates — Te Wananga o Aotearoa—Dissolution of Council 
Mallard Trevor: Urgent Debates — Te Wananga o Aotearoa—Dissolution of Council 
[Volume:625;Page:20374] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Some of us can remember—some time ago I think—that member describing Donna Awatere Huata as the best thing that had happened to education in New Zealand. I think his judgment has not changed much since that time. 
Hon Bill English 
: It was you! 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I am the best thing? Thank you! That is the first time Bill English has admitted that. 
Tariana Turia 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I do not think this Minister has any right to cast aspersions on anyone else in this House. [ 
Interruption 
] She may not be in this House but this debate is about Te Wananga o Aotearoa not anyone else. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I will rule on that but before I do I just warn members and the chief Government whip that that was a point of order and there will be silence during points of order. The point the member raised is a debatable point. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I am not at all surprised— 
Stephen Franks 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It is a point of clarification. The first point of order was raised on the basis that aspersions were being cast on another member of this House. I do not know whether you accepted it or did not accept it but I wonder which person in this House was having aspersions cast on him or her. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I have dealt with the point of order. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Without wanting to refer to the point of order and I will not go back to it I am certainly commenting on the judgment of the Hon Ken Shirley. He has been consistently wrong over a number of years. Even today he talked about the possibility of the wananga becoming a State wananga. Well it is a Crown entity—it is a Crown entity now. It has been a Crown entity ever since National funded it—when it started it. It has been a Crown entity all the time. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: What’s the difference? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The member is right. What is the difference between a Crown entity and a State wananga? I say it is nothing. 
Hon Jim Sutton 
: You could call it the “Don Brash Memorial Wananga”. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: In fact I think it is the “Nick Smith Memorial Wananga” in this case or maybe he was only a junior Minister at the time the funding flowed into it. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: It’s the “Lockwood Smith Memorial”. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Lockwood Smith was certainly the senior Minister but he had a number of little assistants over the years. I thought Nick Smith was one of them but maybe he was not one of Lockwood Smith’s little assistants who worked closely with him over a number of years. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Keep to the issue. Where’s the accountability? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The member does not like it. Nick Smith is tweeting again like a little sparrow—away he goes. 
This wananga is being treated as any other Crown entity institution would be treated. Any other institution in the same circumstances unable to—[ 
Interruption 
] Tariana Turia on one side says I am discriminating and other people on the other side say I am being soft. I think maybe there is a point of balance and we are taking a reasonable approach. 
I want to acknowledge that this wananga over a period of time has made an enormous difference to a lot of people. There was an enormous backlog of people who through the 1990s and probably the 1980s and in some cases back to the 1970s never got jobs. They had been on the scrap heap for years and years and this wananga made a big difference to the lives of many of them. What has happened? Those people have jobs. They are employed. They are working. They are paying taxes. Some of what was the role of the wananga has now disappeared. Given the fact that that has happened a certain discussion is to be had going forward as part of a charter and profile exercise as to the shape of this organisation. 
I want to make it clear as I have on previous occasions that we will not support any inappropriate use of taxpayers’ funds and investigations are going on in that area as members are aware. Until we get the results of those investigations I think it is better to wait and not show the prejudice we have seen about things Maori from the ACT party over recent months. 
The Government wants the future focus of the wananga to be on Maori students and on the quality of programmes offered rather than on straight volume growth. This wananga received a Treaty of Waitangi settlement. After there was acceptance from National that there would be a settlement the wananga received a settlement on the basis of the need of the Maori students. To shift the whole emphasis to Pakeha students and immigrant students is I think in breach of the terms of that settlement. It certainly means that the wananga does not meet the conditions for the suspensory loan and that has been discussed with it. There is a difference in points of view but that is certainly my view. 
As I indicated the Tertiary Education Commission is renegotiating the charter to make sure it is focused on its core role. The Auditor-General is investigating allegations of the inappropriate use of public funds. I think there is a two-tranche investigation. We have not yet had the results of tranche one. The Government has appointed Mr Roche to be a Crown observer and with the agreement of the council that observer has assumed the role of Crown manager and has taken over the finances of the wananga. It has become clear as part of that process that the finances are not in good shape. We knew they were in bad shape but it is clear that they are in worse shape than we previously contemplated especially around short to medium term cash flow. 
Like many organisations income does not always match expenditure and there have been periods right through this year when an overdraft has been required—especially because of the high levels of need through to 31 July and to avoid the sort of fire sale that members opposite would complain about. This organisation has over $100 million worth of assets. If it went to a fire sale and if there were any question of selling to its mates or of quick deals then members opposite would complain. I want to see an orderly set of arrangements and the Crown manager is the person who is able to focus on that. 
I thank the Crown appointees to the council of the wananga. I make it clear that any contemplation of the appointment of a commissioner is not a reflection on them— 
Hon Bill English 
: What is it then? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why did you fire them? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think it is fair to say with Wira Gardiner having been there for only about a month or maybe 6 weeks that it is a bit hard to blame him for everything. I know that National Party members like attacking their own former members and their own former vice-president. They do not like Wira Gardiner very much and I understand that but Wira Gardiner is a straightforward person. I want to indicate that this appointment is not a reflection on some of the people who have been working very very hard to recover the situation. It has become clear that it is unlikely that that can occur. I want to make it clear that although there is an authority for a Crown loan it is not yet done and dusted. I have to be satisfied that the arrangements are in place before that loan occurs. I am not yet satisfied that we are in a positive situation in that I can give assurances to Cabinet Ministers around the security of the loan—[ 
Interruption 
]—notwithstanding cartoons. I think Tremain is a very good cartoonist. I have not seen that one but no doubt I will try to have a look at it. 
I want to make clear to people that there are two ways of the Government securing the loan. One is against the assets of the wananga. They are very large assets and they are relatively unencumbered. The other way is against the income stream to the wananga—the majority of which of course still comes from the Government. So I tell members not to panic around security for the loan. We will get the best shape of wananga going forward— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: It’s done great over the last 5 years! Done a great job! 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I want to thank Nick Smith. He has admitted that I have done a great job. On that note I think I should end. If he says that I do not need to speak any more.