Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10765] 
6.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
 to the  
Minister for the Environment 
: Did the Chief Executive of the Ministry for the Environment ever ask him for his opinion on the appointment of Madeleine Setchell as the communications manager of the ministry; if so what did he say? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for the Environment) 
: 
 No; I had one conversation with the chief executive relating to this matter before it was resolved. That conversation happened when he drew me aside in the context of a meeting about other issues and advised me there was an issue he was dealing with involving the partner of a National Party staff member and that he had formed a preliminary view that there was a conflict of interest and that he was working with the State Services Commission to manage that issue. I noted two things: first that this was clearly an employment issue and therefore his responsibility alone to manage and secondly that from the point of view of my office I would likely be less free and frank in meetings with such a person. That was a statement of the obvious. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: What miraculous events have occurred overnight for the Minister to have this greater recollection of the meetings held on 29 May that he could not remember yesterday and has he also perhaps forgotten that he did say to Mr Hugh Logan: “I won’t have that woman in my office.”? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: No miraculous events have occurred and I did not make that statement. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Does the Minister expect us to believe that after the flurry of phone calls between his office and Hugh Logan’s office on 28 May which caused Mr Logan to drop everything conduct an urgent inquiry and involve the State Services Commission that at a meeting the next day the Minister was neither asked for nor offered his opinion on the actual appointment of Madeleine Setchell beyond the scant comments made by the Minister in the House today? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: For the benefit of the member let me run through the chronology again. I was not aware when my adviser began his inquiry but I now know that it was Monday 28 May. I was first informed of the relationship later on 28 May when it had been confirmed by the chief executive. That there was formally the possibility of a conflict of interest was notified to me after that date personally by the chief executive. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: When the Minister said to Mr Logan that he would be able to be less than free and frank should Ms Setchell be in any meetings in his office what conclusion could Mr Logan reach other than the Minister was instructing him to dismiss Ms Setchell? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The member has misrepresented my quote. I said I would likely be less free and frank. I am sure the member understands fully that that is a statement of the obvious. He would be less likely to conduct a conversation as frankly with a member on this side of the House as he would with his own colleagues one would assume. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Why did the Minister not simply make that admission—this new revelation—right at the start of this particular issue and the investigation into it; and is the Minister surprised that when Mr Logan was asked by the media if the Minister had said to him: “I won’t have that woman in my office.” he could not answer that question for himself with a simple “No”? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: There are about five questions there. Can I repeat that I did not make that statement. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can we assume from Mr Logan’s refusal to deny the Minister told him: “I won’t have that woman in my office.” with a simple one-word answer that it is a fact the Minister did instruct exactly along those lines and could any other conclusion be reached from what the Minister has told the House today? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: No members cannot make that assumption and other conclusions can definitely be reached. These are the facts of the matter. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister assure the House that if Mr Logan were to speak in a free full and frank manner and tell the media what the Minister said to him he would keep his job? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I can assure the House that I have confidence in the professionalism of Mr Logan and I have no concerns in that respect. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister assure the House that there will be no adverse consequences for any one either in his office or in the Ministry for the Environment who blows the whistle on what the Minister actually said to Mr Logan? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am not the employer either in my office or in the Ministry for the Environment. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister give the House an assurance that he has not in the past pressured any Government department to remove staff because of his perceptions about their political connections? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: It would be totally inappropriate to do so. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. We know that it would be inappropriate to do so. We are asking whether the Minister is prepared to say he has not done that before. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister is answering as the Minister for the Environment. That is his ministerial responsibility in this context. I also remind members that they cannot require a specific answer to their questions. In that instance the Minister addressed the question though it may have been outside his ministerial responsibility. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: In relation to the question about the employment of Mr Logan has the Minister received any report that when Mr Brownlee was asked whether Mr Logan would have a job were there to be a change of Government he refused to answer yes? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I think it is one of the ironies of this issue that the behaviour of Mr Logan and I believe my staff has been honourable and that reflection cannot be conveyed about the behaviour of those members opposite.