Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeArdern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 02 July 2013. Volume:691;Page:11722. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.JACINDA ARDERN (Labour)to theMinister of Housing: How many people if any are currently homeless in New Zealand?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Housing):There is no precise current measure of homelessness although the Housing New Zealand waiting list is a measure. The total number in the A and B categories is currently 3811 which is actually 551 fewer than when the Government took office. I am advised that 20 percent of the people incategory A could be classed as homeless—or about 250. Housing New Zealand housed 200 people in June or about 40 high-need families per day.Jacinda Ardern: Why is the definition of homelessness used by Statistics New Zealand different from that used by Housing New Zealand which does not for instance consider someone living in a night shelter to be homeless?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: No change has been made. Inevitably there is some degree of arbitrariness. In terms of Housing New Zealand’s definition if a person is living in a car we could treat them as being homeless. If a person is living in a tent or something that is quite clearly not a physical safe roof over their head they are certainly considered as homeless. I would also remind the member that this Government is spending over $2 billion on the accommodation supplement and on the income-related rent to support people with housing challenges—Hon Tony Ryall: How much?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: —over $2 billion—as well as $2.9 billion of capital over the next 3 years with Housing New Zealand which is the biggest investment ever in the corporation.Jacinda Ardern: Will he ensure that his department includes in its definition of homelessness someone who uses a night shelter which includes up to 850 people a night or for instance someone who is forced to couch surf because of a lack of shelter?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: We could get into some esoteric arguments—Grant Robertson: It’s not esoteric if—Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Well but—[Interruption ]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Order!Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Housing New Zealand provides funding for a number of organisations to provide—Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Answer the question.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Well for the member Mr Cosgrove actually there is less homelessness now than when you were a Minister mate.Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption ] It would be helpful—[Interruption ] Order! It would be helpful if the Labour front bench ceased from interjecting while the Minister attempts to answer the question.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: There is not—Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In fact there are two points of order. One is that there used to be a rule in the House that when you got to your feet the person who otherwise had the call sat down. That did not occur. The reason I thought you were getting to your feet was that the Minister indicated that things had changed since you were in Government. They may have but only a little.Mr SPEAKER: With regard to the first point of order because I was looking at the Labour front bench I did not actually notice but I accept that the Minister may not have sat down which is not helpful. The reference to the Speaker occurs on occasions and it is well-known to all members of the House to not bring the Speaker into the debate. But I am trying to attempt to get an answer for Jacinda Ardern who has asked a reasonable question. But it is very difficult for the Minister to answer when he is continually responding to interjections that are coming from the Labour front benches which are interrupting the answer the Minister is giving. Would the Minister now please answer the question.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: A common-sense definition that I take of homelessness is a person who does not have a roof over their head. We can put a whole lot of energy into arguing the definition or we can do what this Government is doing and get on and build the homes that New Zealanders need.Jacinda Ardern: Is he concerned that his department or indeed himself as Minister is grossly underestimating the scale of this issue when based on an Official Information Act reply we received from his department Housing New Zealand has housed on average just 250 homeless people per year when in the last year alone just one service provider in one city had more than 200 brand new homeless clients walk through their doors and another had a further 130?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: In the last month—June—Housing New Zealand housed 200 people. The current waiting list of people waiting for a house is smaller now than when members opposite were in Government. We are investing record amounts in new housing. We have actually got the economy growing. I would also remind the member to have a look at the record of her member’s Government in terms of the increase in housing costs because it was an awful shame.Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga: Tēnā koe Mr Speaker. How much have housing costs risen over the past 5 years and how does that compare with previous years?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Since 2008 house prices have increased by 16 percent or 3 percent per annum. Between 2000 and 2008 house prices increased by 105 percent—Hon Tony Ryall: How much?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: —105 percent or 10.5 percent per year: i.e. housing costs are going up by a third of what they did under the previous Government.Jacinda Ardern: Does he have a strategy for this issue given his own Government has two different definitions for homelessness—his own now is a third and could include for instance someone living under a bridge as being housed—and he does not know the scale of the issue no one Minister or department has responsibility for it and the NGO sector is essentially being left to deal with growing demand?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I take issue with the member claiming that when you say someone is homeless when they do not have a roof over their head somehow a bridge is a roof. That is a somewhat unique definition coming from the members opposite. In terms of whether this Government has a strategy let me tell you about it. We are spending $2.9 billion over the next 3 years on building thousands of extra bedrooms on to existing State houses. We are building 500 infill houses. In fact over this financial year the Government will be directly building more houses than any Government has in the history of New Zealand.