Russell Deborah; O'Connor Greg; Rutherford Tom; McAnulty KieranHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour): Point of order Mr Chair. Mr Chair my understanding is that when a member yields the floor in order for another member to make a contribution that call may not be used to call for the end of the debate.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): I'm not familiar with that rule but Mr Bates there was an indication that you were taking a call so—[Interruption] No no. You're bordering on an abuse of process there. Does the member wish to take a call on the bill or was he going to take a closure motion?Carl Bates: Mr Chair my understanding was that she was offering me the floor to make a call and so I put the closure motion.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): All right OK. Well now I think that's probably clarified something now—that members on my right if they do want a genuine call they're obviously welcome to it but it may well be through the nature that they'll need to indicate to the Chair that they're looking for a call on the bill. Otherwise there is the assumption given we know the problem of too much assumption is that it will be a closure motion. So we will resume now.TOM RUTHERFORD (National—Bay of Plenty): Point of order. Thank you Mr Chair. I just want to seek some clarity there. So we need to differentiate on this side between whether we're rising to speak on the bill or whether we are going to be putting forward a closure motion. That's the ruling you have just made there.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): No no what I said was the assumption will be that members on my right at this stage of the debate rising as they have will be taking a closure motion. However it is only an assumption—there is no ruling—but I would always welcome a call on the bill to my right. We're very early on in the debate on this part of the bill. So it may well be that a call at this stage may well be a call on the bill. So it would be useful just to indicate to the Chair—myself and my fellow Chairs—that you are seeking a call on the bill. That might just help the committee act more smoothly.TOM RUTHERFORD (National—Bay of Plenty): OK and just speaking to the point of order when the Hon Deborah Russell took her seat she cited that there was a Standing Order or Speaker's ruling that said if a member in this House yielded the call they would not be able to take the closure motion. Could you please let me know what that is.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): As I indicated that is not a rule that immediately leaps to my mind. I'm not saying it doesn't exist and I'll put the Clerk's Office to work now seeing if such an order does actually exist.Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour): Speaking to the point of order. Thank you very much Mr Chair. As I understand it the rules around yielding are quite restrictive. It's an unusual procedure in the House but it is prescribed in the Standing Orders and Speakers' rulings: a member has the ability to yield time within their allocated speaking time if another member seeks that that is their intention. When yielding the time that time is to be used to seek clarification from the speaker—the person speaking that is—as to a point they are making so the House can better understand what they're talking about. It is not to be used as an opportunity to make a debating point a political point or in this case here a closure motion. So when the Hon Dr Deborah Russell offered to yield and gave up her time it was in the hope that members on the other side would contribute to the debate not use that opportunity to try and close the debate down.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): All right and thank you for that contribution. As I said I'm vaguely aware there is such a thing. I don't know the detail of that yielding—it certainly sounds like the member might know a little more than me—but I'm certainly going to take some advice on that so that I can advise the committee on the motion because having now come to the fore I'm sure it will be something to the minds of all the members present. So we'll now resume with the Hon Deborah Russell and I'll treat this as a continuation of that call.