Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:657;Page:6030] 
8.  
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Did she approve the line by line report of 3 February 2009 prepared for her by the New Zealand Police and entitled “Value for Money and Budget 09: Line by Line Review” for submission to the Minister of Finance? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 Yes. All departments were required to conduct a line by line review of their expenditure to find savings that could be put into front-line services. The New Zealand Police line by line review yielded $14.2 million for the 2009-10 year comprising $5.5 million in actual savings made by Police National Headquarters and $8.7 million from returning funding from the previous year for depreciation of assets because the assets had yet to be built. As the member should know the New Zealand Police saved $5.5 million in its line by line review but received $182.5 million in Budget 2009 to increase the number of police. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Why did she allow a report to be submitted during the Budget process that included a proposal to make savings through “the rationalisation of housing and station numbers”? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Actually it is not my practice to stop the police from making suggestions and I have said to them that I want them to put forward ideas even ideas that I do not agree with because the Government does not want to hold the police back and politicise them which the previous Labour Government did. 
Simon Bridges 
: Has she received any other reports on reviews undertaken by the police? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Yes. I have received a report from the New Zealand Police advising that its property portfolio was reviewed in 2001 in 2006 and twice in 2007. During that time under the previous Government’s watch 37 police properties were sold. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: 37! 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Yes 37. The police property portfolio is worth $665 million. It is expected to be regularly reviewed but 37 were sold under Labour’s watch. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Why was the section of the report—specifically paragraph 30—that discussed “key areas that are likely to be considered” during the second phase of the police line by line review including the property portfolio and the vehicle fleet deliberately omitted when the paper was released on to the Treasury website? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I am not in charge of Treasury; the member should be asking me about the police. In fact the member is now confused and upset because the police have released all the documents he wanted. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The dilemma is that the question was very specific. The document has the Minister’s signature. The document that was subsequently released by the police under the Official Information Act has all the information in it. The document that the Minister submitted for Treasury to publish had direct omissions pertaining to this point. The Minister is responsible for it; it is not a matter of Treasury being responsible for it. She signed the paper she submitted it to Treasury and she took out the particular elements that were omitted and not published on the Treasury website. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I believe that the Minister from what I heard answered the question quite accurately. The paper being referred to I understand was published on the Treasury website and the Minister pointed out that she was not the responsible Minister for what Treasury might publish on a website. The paper that she has released as Minister of Police I gather contains all the information. 
David Garrett 
: Will the figure budgeted for crime investigations cited in the 3 February report referred to in the primary question be reduced as a result of the Prime Minister’s direction that the police not pursue trifling incidents of child smacking; if not why not?  
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I cannot imagine so because unfortunately people still commit crimes and we expect a very good service from the New Zealand Police for the public. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Will the Minister now that this review of police property has been exposed publicly after she had kept it off the Treasury website and therefore secret for 7 months guarantee that no operational police stations— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am being very liberal on the kind of question I allow but the Standing Orders are very specific that members should not make allegations in asking questions at all and especially when a Minister has pointed out that something is not her responsibility. For the member then in asking a question to allege that the Minister had kept something off the Treasury website is clearly not consistent with the Standing Orders. I invite the member to rephrase his question. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Will the Minister now that this review of police property has been exposed publicly after being unavailable for 7 months guarantee that no operational police stations or operational police houses will be closed or sold under this Government? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Both the Prime Minister and I have made it perfectly plain that police stations will not be sold under this Government. In fact we are actually opening another one on Friday. I say to that member who keeps popping up that 37 police properties including police houses were sold under the previous Labour Government. That member was in fact a member of Cabinet when that happened. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table a number of documents. The first is an article in which the Prime Minister is reported as refusing to rule out the selling of police houses. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Where is this article from? 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: It is a news media article; it is from the  
Dominion Post 
. [ 
Interruption 
] Well they do not like it of course. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There will be no further comment like that and there will be no interjection. Leave is sought to table a press clipping. Is there any objection to it being tabled? There is. [ 
Interruption 
] Sorry there is no objection. [ 
Interruption 
] I hear there is objection. I beg your pardon: there is objection. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is exactly the same— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No this is different because I heard conflicting voices. If there is objection I must take it. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table a New Zealand Police report on its line by line review that was recently released under the Official Information Act that reveals proposals to close police stations and houses. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I take a bit of counsel on this. I think the document is incorrectly described but tabling it will sort that out. It will show that the member is quite wrong in what he is claiming. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has the right to— 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: Speaking to the point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will not hear further on this issue. These are not valid points of order. I caution the member that when describing a document he should give the greatest emphasis to detailing where the document is from rather than trying to summarise its contents because that will tend to lead to disorder. This is a release under the Official Information Act on the line by line review. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table the same document but the version that was published on the Treasury website where the references to rationalisation— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has described the document. Again we get back into this practice of tabling documents that are readily available to the House. If it is on the Treasury website it is readily available to the House. The reason the member seeks to table it is to try to make a political point. I have to put the leave the member has sought but— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect you have given a commentary on my motives. I do not believe that is appropriate. Secondly the reason the document is being tabled is that there are two versions of it one of which is the total document one of which has omissions. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I hear the member perfectly well and it is perfectly obvious to everyone that that is what the member is doing. Leave is sought to table a document that was published on the Treasury website. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table a speech from the previous Minister of Police Annette King in July 2008 in which it was noted that 34-plus police stations had been opened or refurbished under the Labour Government. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I seek leave to table a list of the 37 police properties sold under the Labour Government. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Stations? Houses? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Can I inquire as to the source of the document. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: It is from the New Zealand Police to me. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have not recognised the member. Leave is sought to table that document. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Before the leave is given— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member wants to speak to the point of order. I am not sure what issue of order he seeks my assistance with because he can refuse leave very easily. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I may not wish to refuse leave. I seek further advice from the Minister as to the nature of the document because in the past blank pieces of paper with no letterhead from departments particularly the New Zealand Police have been tabled as some sort of official document. I would simply like clarification. Is it an official document with a letterhead that has been signed by somebody as a briefing paper to the Minister? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Will the document be an official document prepared by officials? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I cannot recall whether it has a letterhead but it came from the New Zealand Police. Actually I take great objection on behalf of the police— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No we will not have a debate by way of points of order. It is my fault for allowing this in the first place. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.