Lees-Galloway Iain: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLees-Galloway Iain: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 30 October 2014. Volume:701;Page:428. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]10.IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour—Palmerston North)to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Does he agree with Port of Tauranga corporate services manager Sara Lunam that they are “not responsible for other companies’ employees on Port of Tauranga”?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development)on behalf of theMinister for Workplace Relations and Safety: No not necessarily at all. It would depend on the detailed arrangements between the Port of Tauranga and the lessees of its facilities and the activities that they undertake. The Health and Safety in Employment Act sets out the duties of employers persons in control of places of work and contracting principals and it is quite comprehensive. Further the new Health and Safety Reform Bill—Chris Hipkins: Speak up.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: —currently before the House makes it clear that all those who have influence on—well be quiet and you will—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The members are complaining that they cannot hear but if they continue to interject and yell at the Minister then they have no chance.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The interjections actually started when members could not hear the Minister. He was actually heard in silence for the first half of his answer and people could not hear him.Mr SPEAKER: That is no excuse for then continuing with that level of interjection. I am going to invite the Minister to start his answer again and I request from my left-hand side a reasonable level of silence to allow the answer to heard.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No not necessarily at all. Under current law it depends on the detailed arrangements between the Port of Tauranga and the lessees of its facilities and the activities that they undertake. The Health and Safety in Employment Act sets out the duties of employers persons in control of places of work and contracting principals and it is quite comprehensive. Further the new Health and Safety Reform Bill which is currently before the House makes it clear that all those who have an influence on health and safety outcomes in the workplace have a shared responsibility to keep workers safe and they need to consult and coordinate with each other to make sure that happens.Iain Lees-Galloway: Will he state for the record that there will be no change in the Health and Safety Reform Bill to the responsibilities of principals and owners of workplaces for the health and safety of all workers on their sites and no erosion of the worker participation provisions?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: That bill is currently before the Parliament—in fact I understand currently before the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. It would not be appropriate for the Minister at this stage to say what will or will not happen to that bill while it is currently before the select committee.Iain Lees-Galloway: Is he concerned that the increased casualisation of the workforce is resulting in increased accidents at our ports with 25 of the 26 accidents and both of the deaths at the Port of Tauranga relating to employees or contractors not directly employed by the port; if so what will he do to reduce the casualisation of the workforce?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The health and safety of workers at the port and in fact at any other workplace in New Zealand is non-negotiable. It does not matter what the contracting arrangements are the responsibilities are there and they must be met. There are a number of investigations going on at the moment by WorkSafe New Zealand into accidents that have occurred at New Zealand ports and the regulator will absolutely take enforcement action if that is what is required.Iain Lees-Galloway: Does the Minister accept that the majority—the overwhelming majority—of accidents and deaths have involved people on casualised contracted employment arrangements not direct employees of ports?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I would be very interested in reading the member’s data. That is not my understanding but I have to say that I have not actually been briefed on that. It certainly has not been raised but I think that if the member looks he will find that there have been issues of workplace injuries and fatalities under all sorts of employment arrangements.Iain Lees-Galloway: Will he undertake to do a full sweep of site inspections as was done for the forestry sector to stop the shameful toll of seven deaths and 133 serious accidents that have occurred at our ports in just the past 3 years?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: It is clear that any workplace fatality is unacceptable but we have in fact set up a new regulator WorkSafe New Zealand which was established in December 2013 to take a stronger monitoring role and to enforce compliance with the law. I can advise the member right now that WorkSafe is undertaking a number of investigations of incidents at New Zealand ports and it will take the action that it believes is appropriate. It will be briefing the Minister on a regular basis as to any other action that it believes needs to be taken from a policy perspective.Iain Lees-Galloway: That would be a “No” then?Mr SPEAKER: Order!Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That is the second or third time the member has got up and tried to characterise the answer. This is a serious subject and I think the flippancy with which he is approaching it is inappropriate.Mr SPEAKER: It is indeed the second time that I have noted the member stand up and start his supplementary question that way which is unacceptable. I warned him last time not to do it and he has continued to do it. I am very tempted to complete this line of questioning and certainly if that habit was to continue from that particular member that would be the action I would take. On this occasion I will give him the benefit of the doubt.Iain Lees-Galloway: Does he consider appropriate rest and meal breaks to be necessary for port safety; if so why is he pursuing changes today to remove minimum entitlements to rest and meal breaks from the Employment Relations Act?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member is incorrect in his assertion. Nothing in the Employment Relations Amendment Bill affects the obligations on employers to keep their workers safe. Any member who represents that is misrepresenting the bill in the House this afternoon. It is up to employers and employees in the bill that is yet to pass the House to negotiate what breaks are reasonable for their workplace but employers must meet the health and safety obligations in their workplace at all times. [Interruption] I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The member has again characterised the answer immediately after—Mr SPEAKER: Order! On this occasion there is a difference. The member has interjected—it was not a helpful interjection and I accept that—but it was not as if he did it at the start of his question which was the issue I addressed earlier.