Brown Peter: Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Brown Peter: Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:638;Page:8448] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 There have been some hypothetical situations tonight and I would like to add another one. A young mother and two children Johnny and Joey were going across the road. The children had worked it out between themselves that they were going to dart across the road just before a car came. I know this happens; I saw it happen not that long ago—3 or 4 months ago—not with a mother but with one single kiddie who was playing chicken or something. Sue Bradford can maybe tell me whether I fully understand the situation. Joey got across and Johnny got a smack. He got caught by the mother and got a smack. Joey was on the other side laughing but he thought a smack was coming. They were on a relatively rural road where there was a bit of road dug up and a bit of work going on. There was a poor old guy—maybe like myself—digging in his front garden. Joey took off and picked up a stone a chunk of rock to fling at the old guy. The young guy who got caught and got smacked for not doing anything was following behind and he had the same idea. But the mother caught him again and gave him another smack while the other one threw the rock at the old guy and hit him on the head. 
Rodney Hide 
: Which one got the smack? 
PETER BROWN 
: The one who stayed with the mother. I ask Mr Hide not to get confused. 
 Now we have a situation—and I want Sue Bradford to tell me about this. The kiddie who did the damage the kiddie who crossed the road was not punished but the kiddie who was stopped was punished twice. Their mother took them both home and said: “I’m going to put you in your rooms for some time out.” But the kiddies wrestled like hell as they do from time to time and it virtually became an assault case to get the kiddies in their rooms. The member can tell me whether I have got it wrong because this bill states that someone can smack to stop a kiddie from doing harm to himself or herself someone can smack to stop a kiddie from doing harm to somebody else but someone cannot smack for correction. I urge the member in the chair Sue Bradford that if she thinks I am wrong to tell me but if I am right I say that this bill needs Chester Borrows’ amendment. 
I heard the Hon Steve Maharey a little while ago saying that the Chester Borrows amendment would give guidance to smacking or what have you and he would prefer to leave it to police discretion. I ask members in the Committee what they think the police will do. They will come out with some discretionary powers. I asked a few police constables—whom I will not name although I could easily—and they said to me as individuals virtually the same thing. They will be told by their superiors that they are not to use discretion as that is for judges. If this bill goes through if my fears are realised there will be police cars at a number of houses. 
Hon Chris Carter 
: Do they prosecute at rugby games now? It happens every week—technically an assault—but do they prosecute? No. 
PETER BROWN 
: Does the Minister think it is absolutely nice to have policemen knocking on neighbours’ houses saying: “I heard that you smacked little Johnny.”? I can tell members that this bill is opening the door wide and even if the police do not prosecute the stigma of having the cops around time and time again because little Johnny or little Joey were alleged to have been smacked is not on. 
The Chester Borrows amendment is very clear and it is very simple. It protects the child from abuse. Anybody who goes further than the rather tame smacking outlined in the amendment will be up for possible prosecution but the amendment does allow the parents some discipline for a correction basis. I say that if it is good enough to allow a parent to smack to stop someone from doing something there and then what is the real rationale for stopping them from doing something into the future—for correcting behaviour? It is a play on words.