Kedgley Sue: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Kedgley Sue: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18798] 
8.  
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Agriculture 
: Why has the Government put in place layer hen and pig codes of animal welfare which allow practices that do not fully meet the obligations of the Animal Welfare Act 1999? 
Hon JIM SUTTON (Minister of Agriculture) 
 on behalf of the 
Associate Minister of Agriculture 
: The codes were put in place because they are the best animal welfare solutions that the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee felt it could recommend at the time. The Act allows the setting of minimum standards that do not meet all the requirements of the Act particularly the requirement that the animals be able to exhibit their natural forms of behaviour. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Can he confirm that that can happen only when there are exceptional circumstances and how can he claim that there are exceptional circumstances that could justify keeping sows in sow crates until at least 2015 as the new pig code does when more than two-thirds of the industry has already abandoned sow crates without any apparent loss of income? 
Hon JIM SUTTON 
: I can confirm that I have visited farms of all types and that the farms that use sow crates do—at least in the examples I saw—meet high standards of animal welfare. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Why did the Minister of Agriculture ignore the advice of the Regulations Review Committee which advised him that in its view exceptional circumstances had not been established to justify an exception to the code and that the proposed pig code therefore was not in accord with the Animal Welfare Act? 
Hon JIM SUTTON 
: As required by law I take advice from the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee. It is a committee of experts. The parliamentary committee the member referred to may or may not know anything about animal welfare. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Does the Government accept that it is cruel to keep millions of animals in cages where they cannot turn round or express normal patterns of behaviour as required by the Animal Welfare Act—yes or no? 
Hon JIM SUTTON 
: I can advise the member that natural forms of behaviour amongst animals are frequently far from conducive to the welfare of their fellow animals. They can be disgusting and vicious. I can further confirm that I have visited egg-producing businesses and seen that it is perfectly possible to have high standards of animal welfare in a caged-bird system.  
Sue Kedgley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question related to the Government. I accept that the member might have visited some farms and had a bit of a look around them but I asked whether this Government accepts that it is cruel to keep millions of animals in cages—yes or no? I wonder whether he could answer that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member cannot just expect a yes or no answer. The Minister can address that part of the question if he wishes. 
Hon JIM SUTTON 
: It is certainly not a given that caged-bird systems are cruel. If members know of cases where animal welfare is being abused or not kept up to scratch it is their duty to report that to the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry or the SPCA so that action can be taken. 
Ian Ewen-Street 
: Does the Associate Minister agree with comments made in 2001 to the Pork Industry Board by his colleague the Hon Jim Sutton when he said: “I cannot believe that phasing out sow crates by 2006 is an impossible target for you to achieve” and: “If 80 percent of producers can do it why can’t the remainder?”; if he does agree with Mr Sutton why has the Government accepted a welfare code that will consign many thousands of sows to crates until at least 2015? 
Hon JIM SUTTON 
: On behalf of my colleague the Associate Minister I can say that as far as I know he does agree with Mr Sutton. He would be well aware that since then both he and I have had a good deal of expert advice from the National Animal Welfare Advisory Committee and we accept that the codes that have been put in place are the highest standard that is practicable and enforceable at this time.