te Heuheu Georgina: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
te Heuheu Georgina: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:607;Page:4996] 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (NZ National) 
: 
 I am pleased that the Minister did get to his feet. That is very good but I would like him to think hard on this one. The Minister might say that he is fulfilling some obligations here but as I say if he reads the preamble very carefully he will see that there is nothing that necessarily connects the setting up of this television service to the satisfaction of an obligation under the Treaty of Waitangi and that has long-term impacts around whether the funding will flow. [ 
Interruption 
] Mr Ririnui can take a call if he wants to say something. In the meantime I am on my feet. As I said it has long-term impacts about ongoing funding. Presently the funding of this service is dependent upon the normal appropriations at Budget time. That does not indicate satisfaction of a treaty obligation. And who owns those assets? That is the other thing. For instance in the event of a winding-up who will own the assets? If this is in satisfaction of a treaty obligation then by rights there should be no question that Maori will own the assets. The transfer of assets is part of satisfying the Crown’s treaty obligations. That is what happens in settlements. I am saying to the Minister that nothing in the preamble makes any of that clear. 
Hon John Tamihere 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I am mindful that we are having a fair wide and liberal debate with regard to the preamble. I am merely pointing out to the Committee that a number of the issues raised by colleagues opposite have addressed a number of matters that are in substance in the part-by-part debate. 
Rodney Hide 
: That’s a debatable point. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I remind the member that while points of order are being heard there will be silence. 
Hon John Tamihere 
: In the most deferential way I am merely indicating to the Committee that there is the issue of relevance. Notwithstanding the fact that we are having a wide debate a number of issues raised by colleagues opposite are able to be debated point by point as we go through the bill part by part. 
John Carter 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. The member is right. It has been a broad debate. The preamble itself is quite wide in that it sets up what the bill does. The member is right—there are issues that we have debated that will come up later on in the debate as well. However the preamble endeavours to cover the principles of what the Government is trying to achieve. Logically a number of those things will be covered in the bill itself. Obviously the debate on the short title will be a lot narrower but this one is more general. 
Rodney Hide 
: Madam Chairperson— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I thank the member but there is no need. I am not taking any more calls on this. I have indicated several times about keeping to the preamble. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I have dealt with that matter. 
Rodney Hide 
: Madam Chairperson— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Is it a new point of order? 
Rodney Hide 
: Yes. It is not usual in this House to be debating a preamble in two languages or indeed to be debating a preamble. Mr Tamihere’s point was that he felt that what Georgina te Heuheu was saying was out of order because it can be picked up in other parts. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The member will be seated. He knows very clearly that Maori is an official language. That point has been covered. 
Rodney Hide 
: That is not my point. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I have ruled on the member’s point of order. Nothing is outside the Standing Orders. Please be seated. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Would the member please be seated. 
Rodney Hide 
: Am I going to have this point of order? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated. It is the prerogative of the Chair to rule on a point of order. I have ruled on the point of order. That is the end of the matter. 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: I know that the Minister Mr Tamihere is probably frustrated about this because of course he did commandeer this bill through the Maori Affairs Committee and now he has to sit there like a nice quiet little boy and listen to matters of debate. I do not accept his point at all anyway and you did not either Madam Chair. My colleague is quite right. Basically the preamble is very important. It sets out and sets up what follows. 
What follows of course is a mishmash of what is supposed to be something that satisfies treaty obligations. But as we examine it—and we will certainly examine it further down the track—we will see that it does nothing of the sort. I refer to funding and to the way that this is set up It is a huge job to promote the Maori language—all that background is set out in the preamble. It is a very huge job and when we look at the detail of the bill we can see—and I agree with Deborah Coddington—that it is basically set up to fail. The Minister of Maori Affairs must think about that. He must also think about—he still has time—whether the bill is sufficiently explicit. Instead of say item (4) on page 3 he should think about an item that essentially links the setting up of this television service with the Crown’s obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi to protect and promote the Maori language through broadcasting. There is no explicit statement anywhere in this bill least of all in the preamble that that is the intention—and for the Minister that has been a flagship. 
When this Government came in there were three flagships apparently for it in its first term. Nowhere in the preamble is there any indication that this Minister is sincere about this being a flagship—a flagship for Treaty of Waitangi obligations and satisfaction by the Crown in pursuit of those and a flagship for the protection and promotion of Maori language which is also a treaty obligation. This Minister must give real thought to the fact that the preamble does nothing of the sort. It does nothing to give anybody any assurance. His own cousin Derek Fox chair of the Maori Television Service came to the select committee with his lawyers and recommended three changes to the preamble—that is three additional items: first taking out the current item (4) and incorporating a different one; and adding two others that would make very clear—to this Government first of all because it seems that this Government is the first one that does not know what the purpose of the service is; whether it is in satisfaction of some social obligation or some legal treaty obligation—the treaty obligation that is now supposedly being satisfied. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I did not want to interrupt my honourable colleague after you had given her the call but I was under the impression that Ms Te Heuheu had already had a call in relation to this clause. I noticed when you gave her the call that Ms Coddington had called. I just wanted to alert you to the fact that we noticed that in fact ACT probably was entitled to it. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I thank the member for that.