10. Question No. 10—JusticeHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of JusticeQuestion No. 10—JusticeHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Mr Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Justice: is it still the Government's intention to be the most open most transparent Government that New Zealand has ever had"; [Interruption] if so is she confident the Official Information Act 1982 is fit for purpose?SPEAKER: Right no. The member will wait. I'm going to ask Mr Goldsmith to ask it again without the accompanying noise from Mr Bishop. 10. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of Justice: Is it still the Government's intention to be "the most open most transparent Government that New Zealand has ever had"; if so is she confident the Official Information Act 1982 is fit for purpose?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice): Upholding our legal obligations under the Official Information Act (OIA) is fundamental to the principle of accessibility. This Government has worked to improve the release and transparency of official information. This includes and is not limited to instituting the proactive release of Cabinet papers; instituting the monthly proactive release of ministerial diaries; answering 113000 written parliamentary questions in the last parliamentary term compared to 41500 by National in the previous term; legislating to require the Public Service to foster a culture of open government; supporting improved parliamentary practices to enhance ministerial accountability including a new question and answer process during the committee stage in the House and following ministerial statements in the House. On the Official Information Act itself yes I do believe it's generally fit for purpose. For example since 2016 when the Public Service Commission started collecting OIA data there has been an overall improvement in OIA requests being completed on time despite a 110 percent increase in the volume of requests during that same period. In June 2016 91.1 percent of OIAs were completed on time compared with 97.3 percent today. And just 0.15 percent of all OIA responses result in a finding of deficiency by the Ombudsman.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order Mr Speaker. This was a question on notice. The simple question: is the Government's intention to be blah-blah-blah. The Minister gave a long list of things that the Government has done but she did not answer that question. Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Correct. We've done those things.SPEAKER: Well if the member wants an extended answer the member can have another go.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order Mr Speaker. I just note she was talking during my point of order but I asked a specific question. The question is: is it still the Government's intention to be the most honest and transparent Government we've ever had? SPEAKER: I sort of took the answer to the first part to be affirmative but if the member wants it clarified we'll ask the Minister to do it. Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I'd be happy to respond to the member. This side of the House this Government has absolutely taken our responsibilities under the OIA to enhance and ensure the transparency and that principle of accessibility which we find is fundamental and critical. As I was saying 113000 written parliamentary questions—SPEAKER: I think well I'll just say to the member there are some things which she's responsible for and there's some things which I am. Taking credit for questions being answered is not something to do with the OIA while it might be something to do with transparency.Chris Bishop: Point of order. Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Point of order sir.SPEAKER: No no. I'll take Mr Bishop first.Chris Bishop: This is a serious point. Twice now the Minister has not sought to answer a direct primary question on notice that she's had three or four hours' notice of. The context for this is the quote "the most open transparent Government" which was the quote from the initial Associate Minister of public services—I think the open brackets title was "(Open Government)" the Hon Clare Curran right at the start of the Government's time in office—SPEAKER: Sorry can the member come to a point of order?Chris Bishop: The point of order is the Minister has had a primary question on notice that she has not addressed.SPEAKER: Well that is clearly—Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Responding to the point of order—SPEAKER: No the member will resume her seat. That's clearly incorrect. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she asked the former Minister of Conservation to clarify what she'd need when she messaged colleagues on the subject of the OIA "All correspondence is OIA-able and if we are being lobbied on issues by colleagues especially when we haven't had a yarn things unfolding through OIA process less than desirable."?SPEAKER: Order! Can I just absolutely check that the member has sourced that comment as a comment from the Minister of Conservation?Hon Paul Goldsmith: Yes. Well it's—SPEAKER: In that portfolio?Hon Paul Goldsmith: No. It's from the Minister Kiri Allan. It's from Kiri Allan at a time when she was the Minister of Conservation.SPEAKER: Right—well get that right.Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker. The message that the member refers to is a message exchanged between two Labour members of Parliament. That is a matter of public record. David Seymour: Point of order.SPEAKER: David Seymour did you have something additional?David Seymour: Yes only to say that very clearly the person writing that message was speaking as a Minister and giving guidance to how MPs should deal with a Minister's office.SPEAKER: No I think we'll go right back to the point and that is that this could have been interpreted as a Minister making a statement. It was a statement made by a Minister via an app and therefore I think the member can be questioned on it.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Thank you Mr Speaker. I'm pleased to be able to respond to that question. The former Minister of Conservation and prior to then the former whip; and prior to then she was a lawyer and advised a lot of people on official information issues. One of the issues that I have here is a message to clearly explain to colleagues that don't come into this House and don't have a lot of knowledge on these issues. I think it's incumbent on colleagues and actually any member of this House is absolutely entitled to be able to seek advice about what they can and absolutely are obliged to do under the Official Information Act. I can say that I was simply offering the opportunity to colleagues to discuss the process to ensure that they were aware of it.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table a document a message from Kiri Allan—SPEAKER: No. That's something which is already in the public arena.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Did the former Minister of Conservation explain to her exactly why things unfolding through the OIA process is less than desirable?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I will agree with the comments that I think have been made by many colleagues on both sides of this House and indeed by your deputy leader Nicola Willis this morning. She said and I repeat that it's been the practice over successive Governments that backbenchers and colleagues use all range of methods to communicate with their ministerial colleagues. As that member will be aware as a previous Minister in his former Government we wear different hats. It's important to ensure that members of Parliament who don't have the same responsibilities as ministerial colleagues are clear on their roles their rights and their responsibilities. So to that end I agree with your deputy leader Nicola Willis and the comment that she made on Morning Report this morning.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she seen the published comments of a leading Stuff journalist regarding media attempts to use the Official Information Act under this Government "In my 20-plus years as a journalist this Government is one of the most thin-skinned and secretive I have experienced. Many of my colleagues say the same." and if so does she think that reflects poorly on the legislation or on her colleagues?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I haven't seen that particular article but I did have the opportunity to review an article by a well-known former reporter of the parliamentary gallery—Hamish Rutherford. He wrote in Stuff in October 2015 in response to the then trade Minister losing a High Court series of cases with respect to the OIA that it emerged that for example "previous Ministers in previous Governments"—this one Mr Groser—"had not reviewed his documents. He refused to release documents a blanket refusal on information that was provided—"SPEAKER: Order! I probably should have ruled it out earlier in the answer. The Minister's responsible neither for Mr Rutherford nor the former Minister of overseas trade.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she written to the Chief Ombudsman to give him the assurances he sought about the training given to Labour MPs on dealing with the OIA or did she feel it was safer just to ring him?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I have not been requested nor have I responded to any requests for information from the Ombudsman. But I will just respond briefly in terms of former Prime Ministers of this House. In the National Business Review of October 2015 Prime Minister John Key—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume her seat. The member is not responsible for that.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I know. But he asked me.SPEAKER: And she will now withdraw and apologise for interjecting while I was on my feet.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I withdraw and apologise.SPEAKER: Further supplementary Paul Goldsmith?Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is that an additional one?SPEAKER: Yes.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Thank you very much. Is it in her view open and transparent for Ministers to request messages to be passed on verbally rather than through letters because the latter is presumably more OIA-able?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I do think it's appropriate that all members of this Parliament know that there is a range of different ways that they can advocate and lobby for their communities and in turn their constituents and that they understand the rights and responsibilities that each of those avenues takes. But whilst I'm on my feet—I do know that in 2017 the transport Minister then Simon Bridges was noted for blocking official information requests.SPEAKER: Order!Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: In October2015—SPEAKER: Order! Order! I'll make a baby cry if I have to do that again. Can I remind the member for the third time and the last time—Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Sorry sir.SPEAKER: The member will withdraw and apologise.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I withdraw and apologise.SPEAKER: And—yeah; she's pretty lucky to still be here.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Supplementary?SPEAKER: Yes the member can have another one.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Thank you Mr Speaker. Is she aware that the Prime Minister said in the Speech from the Throne in 2017 that her Government "will strengthen transparency around official information" and if so how does she think Ministers encouraging people to talk to them directly rather than send letters that may be OIA-able strengthens transparency around official information?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: For all the reasons set out in my first answer I believe that this side of the House and this Government has strengthened transparency with respect to the official undertakings that we're required to do as the Government."