9. Question No. 9—Social DevelopmentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 9—Social Development9. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: How many of the 23574 Emergency Housing Special Needs Grants paid in the year to June 2019 are repayable?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): Of the 23574 grants granted in the June 2019 quarter 955 were recoverable. As I said in the House yesterday under the previous Government 11 percent of emergency housing special needs grants were recoverable; under our side it's 4 percent.Hon Louise Upston: How much of the 1580 percent increase in emergency housing special needs grants in Wellington going from 20 to 336 is a direct result of the increased costs of living that her Government's policies have created?SPEAKER: I'm trying to relate that to the repayability of special needs grants not the number. It's not about the increase in the numbers; it's about the repayability. So can the member focus her supplementary back on that?Hon Louise Upston: How much of the 1580 percent increase in emergency housing special needs grants in Wellington—that have gone from 20 to 336—that are repayable are clearly the direct result of her Government's policies on the cost of living?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I reject the premise of that question. This Government when it got into power put $5.5 billion into a Families Package that was targeted at some of the lowest-income earners in this country. The housing crisis that we inherited was a direct result of the previous Government's inaction. This Government is responding and we're not going to apologise for giving New Zealanders who need housing support the support they need because that need is a direct consequence of their inaction.Hon Louise Upston: Under what circumstances are the emergency housing special needs grants repayable?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The emergency housing special needs grants are recoverable if the applicant has failed to make a reasonable effort in the circumstances to access other sources of housing assistance or if the grant is a second or subsequent emergency housing grant made to the applicant within a 52-week period and the applicant has unreasonably contributed to the existence of the immediate emergency housing need. Any emergency housing special needs grant paid in respect of bond or security is also recoverable. Examples where emergency housing special needs grants might be recoverable because they've failed to make a reasonable effort are where the person has not actively looked for a house hasn't shown they have made any effort to look for alternative accommodation have not met with a transitional housing provider when arranged and there are a list of other reasons. I think it's important to note that actually the previous Government made a point in a press release on 1 July 2016 During our review of emergency housing last year it became apparent that vulnerable people were getting into debt to pay for accommodation when they needed it most. This was not right and we have fixed it." They had an 11 percent recoverable rate. Ours is 4 percent. We're fixing it better than what they did.Hon Louise Upston: Who is correct: the Minister who said yesterday "4 percent is repayable" or the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) who on their website say "We'll pay [it] directly to the emergency housing provider. … You won't need to pay this money back"?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I've been very clear in the House that with regards to—Hon Louise Upston: Who's right—the Minister or MSD?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: —the emergency housing special needs—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member asked a question. Her mike is live. The Minister is attempting to answer it. I can't hear it because of the noise she's making.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I've been very clear in this House today and yesterday that under us 4 percent of those who have accessed an emergency housing special needs grant have had that grant made recoverable for whatever reason. Under the previous Government it was 11 percent.Hon Louise Upston: Is it kind and caring to be misleading the public with the MSD website on which of the special needs grants are recoverable?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I have to say that I would have concern about the interpretation of that member's reading of the website. I have been very clear in this House and I will repeat myself: the most recent statistics show that under this Government 4 percent—SPEAKER: Order! I think we've had that set of figures about seven times in the last two days. I've had enough of them.Hon Louise Upston: I seek leave to table a document that I was quoting—SPEAKER: Is the member purporting to table a screenshot of a website?Hon Louise Upston: Well I'm not sure the Minister's seen—SPEAKER: No. The member knows that's disorderly. She'll resume her seat and she's lucky to stay in the House. Question No. 10 Chris Bishop.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Sorry Mr Speaker. I thought you were still dealing with that last exchange and—SPEAKER: No I've dealt with it.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well it's a little surprising then that there was no requirement for there to be an answer because there wasn't one.SPEAKER: Well you don't normally have an answer to leave to table a document unless it's put to the House and it wasn't. And I'm not putting it because Speakers for quite some time now have indicated that material that is generally available especially by way of a website is not something that should be tabled. Louise Upston absolutely knows that and was trifling with the Chair in her attempt to table it.Hon Gerry Brownlee: That's all good; my question was about the question that was asked which you stopped an answer to because you rightly identified some repetitive material coming from the Minister. But the question itself was "Is it fair to the public that a website contains some information counter to the Minister's answer in the House?"SPEAKER: And my ruling was that that was answered right at the beginning of the question and there was much superfluous material added afterwards."