Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 30 May 2013. Volume:690;Page:10574. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to theMinister of Finance: By how much in dollar terms is the Treasury forecasting New Zealand’s external debt to increase between 2012 and 2017 as measured by the net international investment position?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance): As we have said in the Budget net international liabilities are expected to worsen over the next few years as insurance payouts for Canterbury continue. However national saving is expected to rise led by the Government getting its finances in order. In answer to the question the net international investment position at the end of 2012 showed liabilities of $150 billion. Treasury forecasts this figure will be $206 billion by 2017. The difference is an increase in liabilities of $56 billion. At around 80 percent of GDP that would still compare favourably with the peak of 85 percent of GDP in 2009 during a period when the economy had been going pretty well.Dr Russel Norman: So is the Minister of Finance telling the House that under his economic plan for New Zealand our national indebtedness will increase by nearly $60 billion over the next 5 years?Hon BILL ENGLISH: That is the case and that will be driven by a number of things but substantially by growth in business credit as businesses invest in what is clearly now a recovering economy and through this year it will be one of the better-performing economies in the developed world. You would expect business to be investing because that is how it will create all the new jobs that are going to be created. But the question is a bit rich coming from the member who is determined that instead of doing the Government share offer and getting money from New Zealanders—Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was not about me; it was about the Government’s financial and economic plan.Mr SPEAKER: Order! It is not in order for the member asking the question to then insist on the answer by design. The answer very satisfactorily addressed the question that was raised by the member.Dr Russel Norman: Given that his economic plan for New Zealand is to borrow a further $60 billion over 5 years does he think that you can borrow your way to prosperity?Mr SPEAKER: Well again do not bring the Speaker into the debate.Hon BILL ENGLISH: Well you can borrow through a recession as we have done in respect of the Government as long as at the same time you have a plan for reducing that debt. One of the things that is going to reduce at least the Government contribution to it is that we sold Mighty River Power shares for $1.7 billion of cash which is now in the Government bank account. That member is advocating that we borrow that money from overseas bankers. If he is so worried about how the debt is going to build up why is he advocating that we borrow more and supporting a Labour Party that wants us to spend a whole lot more?Dr Russel Norman: In reference to his so-called plan to reduce debt can the Minister confirm looking at New Zealand’s accounts under his Budget and his economic plan that New Zealand’s external debt continues to increase in every year under his proposed economic plan for this country?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No I cannot confirm that but I am happy to look at the figures. What I can confirm is that the Government is outlining its plan to get on top of the debt we have built up through the recession paying New Zealand superannuation and maintaining public services. I did not hear the member opposing that at that time. If he was worried about debt he could have raised the issue then. And we will be making sure that we do not introduce a universal child benefit extend Working for Families write off 1 year of all student debt cap all tertiary fees and phase out the fee system and make all unemployed students eligible for the unemployment benefit which apparently he is going to finance as Green Party policy not by borrowing money but by printing it.Dr Russel Norman: Has he seen Treasury’s projections for the current account deficit which show that the annual current account deficit will increase from $10 billion a year to $17 billion a year in 2017 according to the figures in his Budget; and does he believe that increasing the current account deficit year on year on year is the best way to rebalance the New Zealand economy?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I have seen those projections and in my view Treasury is consistently more negative about the current account deficit than it should be but we do have some choices. We could stop rebuilding Christchurch to meet the member’s requirements. That may be possible. The fact is that the Government is doing its best by getting our finances back under control. The current account deficit today stands at half the level it was when Labour left office.Hon Steven Joyce: Has he considered getting a really big colour photocopier and printing off enough money to pay off New Zealand’s international liabilities on behalf of all New Zealanders sometime next week?Mr SPEAKER: I do not think that is a helpful question but if the Minister wishes to answer it the Minister can.Hon BILL ENGLISH: We have been advised to consider it but I understand that the whole supply of them has been bought up by the Green Party in anticipation of its opportunity.Dr Russel Norman: Can the Minister of Finance tell us what happened to the Southland farmer who used to be a Minister of Finance who once said that the nation had to live within its means and that our income had to match our expenditure and why has this Southland farmer been replaced by a Parnell banker who believes that New Zealand can borrow money indefinitely as he projects to do in his own economic forecasts in Budget 2013?Hon BILL ENGLISH: What happened I think to the Southland farmers is that they get very worried that the Greens are going to shut down the farming industry and so they will have to print money because New Zealand will not be earning any.Dr Russel Norman: Why did the Minister of Finance say the word “rebalancing” more than 50 times in the House in 2010 yet fail to mention it once in Budget 2013?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Actually I cannot answer that particular question but I can tell you that whatever the number of words in the Budget the Government’s focus on rebalancing the economy remains as consistent today as it was then. We need to move from an economy driven by excessive borrowing and consumption as advocated by those parties towards one built on investment exports job creation and savings. Economic circumstances have made that difficult but we will see it through.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I raise this at the first opportunity after the question time of Mr Norman. To his first point of order you said this: “The Minister very satisfactorily answered the question.” To say that the Minister answered the question is one thing but then to throw in your subjective judgment is what is so contestable to this side of the House. All I am asking is that if the answer is that you think the Minister has answered the question well fine. If you are going to keep on throwing in that he answered very satisfactorily some of us are going to contest that because it is a judgment you should not be making.Mr SPEAKER: I will look carefully at the point the member is raising. The question was raised whether the question had been addressed. I have to judge whether I think the question has been addressed.