5. Education—Teacher to Pupil RatiosHon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central) to the Minister of EducationEducation—Teacher to Pupil Ratios5. Hon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central) to the Minister of Education: What plans if any does he have to ensure more students have more time with teachers and students with more complex needs get access to the support they need?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Can I thank the member for the question. My first plan is to address the serious teacher shortage that we inherited from the previous Government due to the 40 percent reduction in the number of people training to be teachers during the tenure of the last Government. In December I announced an initial teacher supply package. This was significantly boosted again in this year's Budget. Teachers have been freed up to spend more time with students through the scrapping of national standards and our work to reduce red tape and compliance is ongoing. Students with more complex needs have benefited from the biggest increase in learning support funding in over a decade while those in early childhood education have benefited from the first across-the-board funding increase in over a decade.Hon Nikki Kaye: Does he agree that children will get better educational outcomes through more teacher time if the student to teacher ratio is reduced?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I seem to recall making that argument when the previous Government was trying to make class sizes bigger. The biggest challenge we have with regard to teacher-student ratios at the moment is having enough teachers to fill the existing vacancies that we have in our schools because of the 40 percent reduction in the number training to be teachers.Hon Nikki Kaye: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked a very simple yes or no question: does he believe educational outcomes—SPEAKER: The member will resume her seat. She knows—she's been here a number of years—members cannot require a yes or no answer. The member got an answer and if she listened she would've heard it.Hon Nikki Kaye: Why has he prioritised spending $2.8 billion on his fees-free and tertiary policy over smaller class sizes?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I reject the assertion in the member's question. The Government has committed to reducing and eliminating financial barriers to participation in education at all levels. The moves that we are taking in early childhood education will help to ease the pressure on parents. The Government is committed to dealing with the chronic underfunding that has afflicted our school system and the increase in funding for tertiary education will of course benefit amongst others the future teaching workforce.Hon Nikki Kaye: In light of his comments regarding teacher shortages have actual primary class sizes on average increased or decreased in the last eight months?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The current Government has made no changes to the funding formula for teachers and therefore—Hon Nikki Kaye: Actual class sizes now?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Well with regard to actual class sizes the previous Government didn't collect any data on actual class sizes so it's very difficult to draw a conclusion as to whether actual class sizes have changed. Of course the decisions around how many pupils are in an individual class rest with the individual schools. The previous Government didn't record that. We haven't started recording that. As part of the workforce strategy work that this Government has put in place—something the previous Government didn't do anything about—that may be one of the things we consider.Jan Tinetti: Has the Minister seen any proposals to increase the amount of time teachers can spend with our youngest learners?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Yes indeed I have. I've seen a proposal to change the teacher-child ratios for under-two-year-olds from 1:5 to 1:4. That proposal was put forward some time ago and a decade later these children are still waiting for the National Party to deliver on their last promise to lower student-teacher ratios.Hon Nikki Kaye: Will he guarantee that he will deliver smaller class sizes in primary schools in the term of this Government?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The commitments the Government's made regarding teachers have been set out in the Speech from the Throne and the various coalition agreements that we have. We have a commitment to putting forward an education workforce strategy and that will be considered as part of that work.