12. Question No. 12—Local GovernmentSIMON WATTS (National—North Shore) to the Minister of Local GovernmentQuestion No. 12—Local Government12. SIMON WATTS (National—North Shore) to the Minister of Local Government: Is it the case that she did not confirm to local councils until late October that Cabinet had decided on a legislated all-in" approach to Three Waters in June; if so why?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): The option to have a legislated all-in approach was signalled as early as December 2020 following a Cabinet decision that was publicly released. I can also confirm that to ensure the success of the three waters reform and that it will benefit every community and/or ratepayers an all-in approach was always an option and factored into an aggregated model of water services delivery. Furthermore the Government didn't make a final decision to progress with reform on a legislated all-in basis until 18 October 2021 following the local government conference and the eight-week engagement period to ensure feedback from the sector.Chris Bishop: Point of order. Mr Speaker that was a primary question on notice. I think the first leg was addressed in relation to the confirmation but there's a second leg which is the "why" and I don't believe the Minister addressed the "why"?SPEAKER: Well I think the whole lead into it was the reasoning behind it. Chris Bishop: Mr Speaker—SPEAKER: No. Is the member going to argue with me? I have ruled that the member addressed the question. She certainly did—both parts of it. Simon Watts: What does she say to local councillors and mayors who entered consultation in August in good faith expecting their concerns to be considered but now see the decisions had already been made months before consultation with them had even begun?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I continue to say that the Government is responsive to the concerns that have been reflected by local government. We have remained agile in our response. That is why we ensured an eight-week consultation period on the advice of Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ). That is why we took on board the concerns of the sector and that is why we established the working group which is now advising on the way in which legislation can proceed. I'm really pleased that I can meet with those few mayors who are here today at about 4.30 to be able to continue to listen to them and hear their concerns but more importantly find a way that we can work towards a solution. And at least this Government has a solution because there is no alternative on the other side of the House.Simon Watts: So how can local councillors and mayors have any faith that their concerns about the Government's three waters proposal will be taken seriously when the Government withheld that a legislated all-in approach had already been agreed to for the entirety of the consultation process?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: That is not correct and in fact two decades of under-investment in water infrastructure should be sufficiently of concern to members of the Opposition who when they were in Government did nothing about it. At least this Government has a solution. At least this Government is trying to find a way to work with this sector so that they continue to remain involved in the way in which a financially sustainable pathway in water infrastructure investment can occur. That member has no solution whatever at all.Simon Watts: Will she apologise to local councillors and mayors for withholding that information and spending the entire consultation process refusing to confirm a mandatory approach would be used despite it having been decided months before the consultation began?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: For clarification the member is ignoring the fact that the July Cabinet paper is quite clear. It explicitly notes that Cabinet would consider whether to proceed with an all-in approach at the end of the eight-week period. This is an important element because the other aspect is that in July at the local government conference the heads of agreement between the Crown the Government and Local Government New Zealand announced that if the Government decided to adopt an all-in approach LGNZ would accept the decision.Rachel Brooking: Does the Minister believe she has engaged in good faith with local councils throughout the three waters reform process? Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Yes I have and I continue to. And no matter how difficult the challenge is it's my strong view that engagement with the local government sector is a critical part of trying to find a solution to a really difficult challenge. I will not close my doors to engagement. In fact just for convenience's sake I have a range of engagements dating back from June 2018 right up until the present day which details the range of engagements that I have had on this particular issue. More importantly the policy process has taken over four years to get to a point. Now I know that we're at the end of the year. This Government wants to ensure that we reach a point where on the first day of Christmas all communities and all ratepayers get [Sings] clean drinking water world-class water infrastructure affordable water rates professional governance entities beaches we can swim in debt off council books and a pūkeko in a ponga tree.Simon O'Connor: Point of order. The Minister very kindly seemed to be referring to an official document of her engagements and I'd welcome her to table it in the House.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Mr Speaker I seek leave to detail the engagements if it's not too onerous on you.SPEAKER: Well if the member has—is the document the member has an official departmental document or is it a list from her office?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: It's a list from my office—SPEAKER: Well the member will resume her seat. It is not an official document and I think it would be—well I don't know if I've got the right not to let the member seek leave to read it all out but I think she'd probably get a—I'm getting a no so we'll just leave it there."