11. Benefits—SanctionsHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentBenefits—Sanctions11. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she believe people on benefits should face reasonable consequences and sanctions if they are not available for and do not take reasonable steps to get a suitable job do not take any offer of suitable full-time part-time or temporary work or work that is seasonal or subsidised do not attend and take part in any suitable job interviews they are asked to and do not take and pass any drug test potential employers or training providers require?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): I do not accept the characterisation of beneficiaries inherent in the question. At the end of June 2018 only 0.8 percent of all current work-tested beneficiaries had a sanction in force. Between 2014 and 2018 this had fluctuated between 0.5 percent and 1.3 percent. Contrary to the narrative that side of the House is trying to spin the vast majority of people with work obligations fulfil them. I'd also like to point out that there are thousands of working-age New Zealanders accessing our welfare system with ongoing high and complex health and disability needs. We have a responsibility to these people to ensure that they can lead a dignified life and continue to contribute to their communities. I believe that people should be supported into meaningful work and to live in inclusive communities where everyone has the opportunity to participate.Hon Louise Upston: I raise a point of order. That was a lengthy answer by the Minister but it didn't actually address the very specifically carefully worded primary question down on notice.SPEAKER: Well I think the last part of it certainly did.Hon Louise Upston: Does she believe that people who can work should work?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I believe that the vast majority of people who can work want to work and this Government is committed to supporting them into meaningful employment.Hon Louise Upston: What is the process for someone who is on a job seeker benefit that occurs before a sanction is applied?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can the member repeat the question? I'm not sure if I heard it properly or understood.SPEAKER: I'm with the member. Could the member repeat it?Hon Louise Upston: What is the process for someone on a job seeker benefit that occurs or takes place before a sanction is applied?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I will speak to the question as well as I can. The process for a person who is on a job seekers' benefit obviously seeking support from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) is that MSD is tasked with giving them the most effective support that they can to support them into what is meaningful employment for them and that is what we're committed to doing.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister: if the admonishments in the question are in any way a fact how can she explain how the people on the benefits went from 286000 in 2008 at the height of the global financial crisis up to 289000 in 2017?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think that's a very good question. The assertion from the other side of the House has been that they were more successful at getting New Zealanders into employment. National did not get 70000 people off benefit. There were more people on benefit as of the end of last year—289000—than when National came into power in 2008 when it was 286000. We are now under this Government experiencing the lowest unemployment rate that we have for a long period of time at 4.4 percent unemployment.Hon Louise Upston: Why has there been a 21 percent drop in sanctions?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: As I explained yesterday the Leader of the Opposition and the Opposition in general are little bit confused. What has occurred is that I was concerned that mistakes were being made when benefit suspensions and cancellations were being put in place and so I put in place a process as of the beginning of May whereby a senior person in the office had to sign off on any suspensions or cancellations. The policy didn't change in terms of when it might be applied but the sign-off was in place to ensure that mistakes wouldn't be made. Clearly in the past mistakes were being made because there's been a 23 percent reduction in the number of suspensions and cancellations because of a better process being put into place.Hon Louise Upston: Should there be obligations on people receiving the jobseeker support and should welfare be a fair go not a free ride?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: There are obligations in place for people receiving welfare. What we need to make sure of is that as a Government we don't do what the previous Government did which was to stigmatise all New Zealanders having to access the support of MSD. We take a strengths-based approach to New Zealanders. We want to support them with meeting their aspirations and I have to say that the recent action from the Opposition has been highly predictable: when the polls are down attack the beneficiaries.