6. Question No. 6—JusticeHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of JusticeQuestion No. 6—Justice6. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of Justice: Is she confident the justice system is prioritising community safety and providing justice to the victims of crime?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice): Yes because we have put more than 1600 police on the front line. That's over and above attrition. We have increased the police budget every year after the National Government froze it year on year on year. We are doing more to reduce the harm caused by firearms than any previous Government and we are doing more to tackle gangs and organised crime than ever. All victims of crime deserve our sympathy and support which is why we have doubled the level of funding for the victims assistance scheme since National left office and in Budget 2022 we put aside $45 million of a whole-of-Government support approach for victims of crime. On retail crime in particular shop owners and workers feeling targeted is completely unacceptable and this is why we have rolled out a thousand fog cannons since 2018. We have introduced a new fog cannon subsidy scheme that will provide all small retailers with $4000 to go towards installing fog cannons. We have invested $6 million into a retail crime prevention fund to help fund things like CCTV shatterproof glass bollards and other improvements at retail stores. This is a Government that is focused on the victims of crime.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why is a 30 percent reduction in prison numbers irrespective of how many crimes or victims there are this Government's only explicit justice target?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: On this side of the House we have been focused on ensuring that there is a continuing trend on crime that is going downwards. When we look at targets we are making sure that we are focusing on the victims of crime. If we want to take a fact-based approach to this discussion around crime and law and order I have only but repeated the statistics in this House every single week. We have seen a general trajectory—a downwards trajectory—of crime going downwards over the last 10 years. But it's this pitch I want to bring this House's mind to: that side of the House is focused on getting tough on crime slogans—boot camps that cost expensive amounts of money and have an 85 percent failure rate.SPEAKER: No. Order! [Interruption] Order! I warn the member that when I stand and say Order!" she should sit.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order. That was an interesting answer to a question Mr Goldsmith did not ask. There was no addressing of the question of the reduction in prison numbers or the explicit justice targets of this Government.SPEAKER: I completely agree. I will award the Hon Paul Goldsmith two additional supplementary questions.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is she denying there has been a 20 percent increase in serious crime in the last few years and if not why is the only target that the Government has a 30 percent reduction in prison numbers?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Thank you to the member for bringing some facts to this House. Let's talk about facts. What we have seen over the past 10 years—they know we know; we see spikes in crime all the time. When that side of the House was in Government these are the spikes of crime that we saw. [Holds up graph] We are seeing a spike in crime—SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! I would ask the member to ask the question again. It's a straight-up question. We do not need attacks on the Opposition. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is the Minister denying there has been a 20 percent increase in serious crime in the last few years and if not why is the only target that this Government has in the justice sector a 30 percent reduction in prisoner numbers?Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: I refute the premise of that question. This side—the Government—has a range of different targets and we're working solidly towards those. Hon Paul Goldsmith: What are the other explicit justice targets? Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: For example just in retail crime alone one of the targets that we have is to provide wraparound support for victims of crime. The targets that we have are to make sure that we get resources out to those victims of crime. We have the belt and braces measures approach that we have announced earlier this week and if I compare it to the approach from the side opposite in 2016 when they invested in things like fog cannons—a failed approach—we fixed them in 2018. We continue to up the ante when it comes to ensuring that there are the appropriate responses in place for those victims of crime and that's just one of many. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does the Minister know the difference between a target and ambition? Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: On this side of the House we know the difference between spikes of crime that are temporal and a trajectory that goes straight down and this is where the statistics show us where we are at. [Holds up graph] This is the state of crime here in Aotearoa right now. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Would real consequences for serious youth offenders be a better solution to the increase in ram raids than telling shop owners to defend themselves with fog cannons and bollards and then not delivering them? Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Thank you to the member again for that question because I think that the real issue is in how we do address our youth crime. We know that when the National Government attempted to do so particularly in 2016—when we saw that immeasurable strike right there [Holds up graph]—the response was boot camps failed boot camps of 85 percent proportionality and slogans like "crushing cars". What this side of the House does is we focus on evidence. Now that side of the House may call it "Kumbaya" mush; we call it wraparound services that get results. Hon Paul Goldsmith: So is the Minister aware of the evidence that there's been a 500 percent increase in ram raids in the last year and what is she doing about it effectively rather than just announcing more funds? Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Yes I'm well aware of the statistics. I've shown them to this House on multiple occasions. What we are seeing is a general trajectory over the last 10 years—but particularly under the Labour Government—of crime rates that have come down. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she or her predecessor as Minister of Justice sought advice on the effects of automatic release provisions for first-time prisoners with a sentence of five years or lower? Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: No I have no immediate plans or any other plans to make any changes to those types of measures. Chris Bishop: Point of order Mr Speaker. That wasn't the question and it was not addressed. SPEAKER: I'll ask the member to ask the question again. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Has she or her predecessor as Minister of Justice sought advice on the effects of an automatic release provision for first-time prisoners with a sentence of five years or lower? SPEAKER: Yeah I think it was—[Interruption] Pardon? Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker. The question absolutely was addressed. SPEAKER: Yes it was addressed."