Flavell Te Ururoa: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:633;Page:5288] 
5.  
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
 to the  
Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi  
Negotiations 
: He aha te putake mo te whakauru mai i tetahi whakaaro hou e kia nei ara ko te rangatiratanga Karauna ki nga hau o-runga kei roto nei i Te Pire Whakataunga o nga Roto o Te Arawa e takoto ana? 
[ 
What is the rationale for introducing a new concept called the Crown stratum as set out in the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill? 
] 
Hon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) 
 on behalf of the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations: Ehara tena whakaaro i te whakaaro hou. The terminology may be new but the concept is not. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Ka taea e ia te whakaatu mai nonahea a na te aha i whakaaro te Karauna nana te “rangatiratanga Karauna ki nga hau o-runga” i runga i te mea koinei te wa tuatahi kua whakauruhia tenei take ki roto i te Whare Paremata i tenei rangi tonu nei? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Can he please advise when and how the Crown assumed ownership of the so-called “Crown stratum” when it is being introduced for the first time in Parliament today? 
] 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Me penei ano te whakautu ehara tenei i te mea hou. Mai ra ano i rapuhia ai e te Karauna i te mana mo nga wai me nga hau o-runga i nga wai katoa. I will say again that this is not a new concept. It has always been the Crown’s view that it has ownership of the water stratum including the airspace on behalf of all New Zealanders. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Ka taea e ia te whakamaramahe aha i kore ai te rangatiratanga Karauna ki nga hau o-runga i whakaarohia i te wa i whakataunga nga tono a Ngai Tahu raua ko Turangitukua na te mea he roto kei runga i aua whenua a ka whakauruhia he ture hoki whakamuri kia kore ai e riro ki a raua te mana mo nga hau o-runga mena kaore  he aha ai? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Can he explain why the Crown stratum was not considered relevant in the cases of Ngai Tahu and Ngati Turangitukua given that some of the lands transferred would have included water bodies and will retrospective legislation be introduced to deprive them of their airspace; if not why not? 
] 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: I tutukihia ai tera raupatu kereme i raro i te Kawanatanga Nahinara. I tera wa rapuhia tonu ai hoki te Karauna i nga wai nga hau hoki. Pera ano i te roto o Taupo. Those claims were settled under the previous National Government and as for Lake Taupo’s situation which includes ownership over water that was not as a result of a Treaty settlement. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Kei te patai au i te patai mena i whakautua taku patai. Ko taku patai ke mo nga kereme o Ngai Tahu raua ko Turangitukua.  
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
I am merely asking whether my question was answered. My question was actually about the Ngai Tahu and Turangitukua claim. 
] 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Ae i whakautuhia e au i tera patai. I tutukihia ai era kereme i raro i te Kawanatanga Nahinara. Tuku atu tena patai ki tera ropu. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Yes I answered that question. Those claims were settled under the National Government. The question should be directed at that party. 
] 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I patai au i te patai ki te Minita o te Karauna kaore au i patai ki a Nahinara. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
 [ 
I asked the Minister of the Crown the question and not National. 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No the Minister did address the question however. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Na runga i te ahuatanga ko naia tonu nei te wa hei whakamarama i te rangatiratanga Karauna ki nga hau o-runga i raro i te ture a na tenei kua aukatihia te mana o Te Arawa raua ko Tuwharetoa ki a Ranginui e tu nei a na tenei ka taea te ki kaore he mana a ture nga mahi tohatoha tuawhiorangi. Mena kaore he aha ai? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Given that the Crown stratum is only now being described in legislation and is being used to deprive Te Arawa and Tuwharetoa of their rights to airspace does it make the allocation of spectrum for example illegal; if not why not? 
]  
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Kei roto i te wahanga tuawhitu o te Pire o Te Arawa me ana roto ka puta te korero kua tautokohia hoki te Karauna te whanaungatanga mai i a Te Arawa ki ana roto katoa. No reira kihai te Karauna kia ki kore kau he mana a Te Arawa ki nga roto. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
There is a statement in Clause 7 of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill where the Crown acknowledges Te Arawa’s relationship to all its lakes. Therefore the Crown does not say that Te Arawa has no authority over the lakes 
].  
Clause 7 of the bill acknowledges Te Arawa’s relationship with all the lakes—including the Crown stratum—defined by Te Arawa as being spiritual traditional economic and cultural. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. E pera ano taku korero ki nga patai i mua. Ko taku patai i hangai tonu ki a Te Arawa raua ko Tuwharetoa me te ahuatanga o te tuawhiorangi. Kaore au i rongo i te whakautu ki tera patai. Tera pea kare i te tika taku rongo kei te inoi atu kia whakautua taua patai. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
My point of order is the same as for the previous questions. My question was about the spectrum as it referred directly to Te Arawa and Tuwharetoa. I did not hear the response to that question. Perhaps I did not hear it properly; would the Minister answer it please? 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: As I heard it the member did address the question. If he wishes to add any more to the answer he may do so. 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Na te mema ke tera korero i whakamarama. Ehara ko Te Arawa. That is the member’s interpretation of Te Arawa’s relationship with the lakes not Te Arawa’s interpretation.