Mallard Trevor: Urgent Debates — Teachers and Support Staff Payroll—Ministerial Inquiry into Novopay SystemText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeMallard Trevor: Urgent Debates — Teachers and Support Staff Payroll—Ministerial Inquiry into Novopay System[Sitting date: 04 June 2013. Volume:690;Page:10651. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South): I was listening from my room and then I came into the House and it might have happened in the minute or so that it took me to come down but I think that that member Craig Foss did not apologise. He did not say sorry. He was the Minister in charge of the project—the Minister responsible for Novopay—he was the Minister who did not ask the questions thatneeded to be asked and he was the Minister who was not getting the weekly reports that he should have been getting. He is sitting behind the Minister of Education and it is hard to tell whether she did it deliberately or not but someone did not do their job.It is no good whatsoever as is made clear to everyone who has studied Westminster democracy to say that it is the fault of the officials. You are to blame Minister. The Minister is to blame and in this case the two Ministers are the ones—Chris Hipkins: And Bill English.Hon TREVOR MALLARD: —and Bill English but Bill English is to blame for a lot more than that. Hekia Parata’s job was to make sure that she had systems set up within her ministry whereby she got at least weekly reports on at-risk projects. Did she do that? No she did not. That Minister does not even get proper weekly reports on her area of responsibility. And I sort of wonder why we pay her a quarter of a million dollars a year when—Dr Megan Woods: Clothes.Hon TREVOR MALLARD: Well you know when that is appropriate it is appropriate. But in this case we have a Minister being paid a quarter of a million dollars a year she has the highest-risk project going on in education—something that involves the payment of teachers—and did she ask them a single question before she signed the paper?Hon Hekia Parata: Yes many times—many times.Hon TREVOR MALLARD: Did she ask—Chris Hipkins: “Many times.” She said “Many times.”Hon TREVOR MALLARD: She said she asked questions many times. Well clearly as is made clear in the report there were issues at the time she signed off the go. She signed off the go not the officials. She signed—and she is nodding; she agrees that it is her responsibility. Well have we heard an apology from her for being an inadequate Minister who does not know how to ask a question? What is the point of having officials and blaming them? You might as well abolish the ministry if she is going to be run by officials—although that I understand is the approach that she prefers to take. Hard work and Hekia Parata do not go in the same sentence.That Minister Craig Foss used to have potential. Craig Foss at one stage was seen in the same class as John Key. He was brought into the party by Brash Boag and that team apparently for the difference that he was going to make. What a disappointment he has been—what a disappointment he has been. One would have thought that someone with some business experience would not just sign the paper that was put in front of him. Frankly under Helen Clark both those Ministers would have been gone. Both those Ministers would have had the sack. They would have been out of Cabinet because they just did not do their jobs.Nothing can be worse for people—maybe those people over there do not understand it. People who are lords and ladies and rich former business people do not care about income and wages but most New Zealanders do. Most New Zealanders care about getting their pay and not only the teachers but the support staff in schools. The members opposite might think that payroll is not that important because it is not that important to them and it is not that important to their funders and to their mates. This is a classic case of those members getting too close to the people who have things and not understanding people who do not. If those members did understand how important pay was how important salary was how important wages were to ordinary New Zealanders they would have made sure that they read the papers that were put in front of them that they took the warnings that they asked the questions and that they did their jobs properly. But instead we have over there two very guilty Ministers—Ministers who do not do their work. I do not know whether it is ignorance or laziness. I really do notknow whether Hekia Parata is as silly as she pretends to be or whether Craig Foss is as lazy as he pretends to be. It does not really matter whether it is laziness—