Tolley Anne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Tolley Anne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10152] 
4.  
ANNE TOLLEY (National—East Coast) 
 to the  
Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF) 
: Does she stand by her statement in the House on 8 May 2007 that “I have confidence in Child Youth and Family’s approval process and selection procedure for the caregivers of the young people who are in the youth justice system”; if so why? 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF)) 
: 
 Yes I do. The department’s approval process ensures that organisations provide appropriate services care and support to young people in the youth justice system. However it does not guarantee that there will be no absconding from programmes run by approved caregivers even when the programme involves placement 5 hours’ horse trek away from the nearest other facility. 
Anne Tolley 
: How were two 14-year-olds in the care of Child Youth and Family able to abscond from a closely supervised camp and obtain high-powered rifles to shoot at police officers? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: They were able to abscond by getting on horses and riding 5 hours away to the nearest facility where they stole the rifles and a car. The rest is on the public record. Nothing guarantees that that sort of behaviour can be stopped. 
H V Ross Robertson 
: Has the Minister received any reports on the effectiveness of programmes to reduce offending by young people in the youth justice system? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Yes I can advise of two reports I have received. The first states: “If their self-concept is improved through the wilderness experience young offenders may be less likely to engage in delinquent behaviour.” The second report states: “Although many children from the East Coast grew up in a hunting and fishing environment youth offenders were the ‘last ones’ who should be taught such skills.” The first report is from the last National Government which highlights the effectiveness of wilderness programmes. The second report is from Anne Tolley who has consistently opposed all attempts for any rehabilitation programmes to turn round the lives of young offenders. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: Has the Minister heard reports that one of the 14-year-olds was standing 5 metres away from a police officer pointed a rifle at that officer and pulled the trigger and that the only reason that officer is alive today is because the rifle jammed; if she has heard those reports what confidence can she have in the standard of care that was being provided by Child Youth and Family in respect of those two young offenders? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Just before the Minister responds I draw to her attention and to the attention of the House that charges have been laid in this case. So the second part of the question may well be appropriate but not the first. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Yes I have read those reports and can confirm that my advice confirms that those reports are correct. It is very difficult to envisage that any other more isolated programme could be made available. A 5-hour horse trek is about as isolated in our community as one could get short of being literally on an island. In fact we do run programmes literally on an island as well for such offenders. But nothing in previous behaviour would have indicated that the events described in reports at the weekend would eventuate. 
Anne Tolley 
: What action will the Minister take on reports in the media today that youth with a significant history of offending have been taught how to use firearms in Child Youth and Family camps and how does this rehabilitate young criminals? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I have read those reports as well. They will be part of the investigation that has been announced by the executive of Child Youth and Family. Any access to rifles or other arms as part of a Child Youth and Family programme would be totally unacceptable. The providers know that and deny such allegations. 
Anne Tolley 
: Can the Minister confirm revelations in the media today that young offenders in a supposedly supervised Child Youth and Family camp have been found drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I can confirm that those allegations have been made that they have been referred by the department to the police for investigation and that the police have agreed to follow up those allegations. That is the appropriate course of action. 
Anne Tolley 
: What action will the Minister take on reports that due to a lack of Child Youth and Family funding the trust involved was able to staff the course with only two people supervising instead of the one staff member per three boys as required and how does this rehabilitate young criminals? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: No I would certainly not be able to confirm that. My advice is that the ratio has been met at all times on that site. 
Anne Tolley 
: Will the Minister make public the review completed by Child Youth and Family the last time that this trust lost track of a young offender and failed to report him missing for 3 months; if not why not? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Yes. 
Ron Mark 
: Does the Minister agree that the fact that these boys had been in residential facilities and had at the age of 14 a “significant history with Child Youth and Family” before the incident shows that the leniency of the youth justice system is precisely what is entrapping young people in a lifestyle of crime; and does she agree with New Zealand First that it is time to urgently address the obvious failings of our youth justice system? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I am able to confirm that due to the situations in which these young men were raised they have been involved with Child Youth and Family services through care and protection and youth justice throughout nearly their entire lives. That is a tragedy that I think the whole of the House would recognise as such. It does not in my view lead to the assumption that there is some systemic failure in the youth justice system. In the majority of cases the youth justice system and rehabilitation is successful though clearly it has not been in the case of these two young men.