Sepuloni CarmelHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): That member said I'd probably get up and debate the points that he made and I probably will because this is the general debate and that's what we do in a general debate. We heard from the member that just spoke about alleged cracks in the coalition. I do need to remind that member that he was the one thinking of splitting off and starting his own party so we do have to ask: which party is Alfred Ngaro with this week? We have also heard rumours that already badges are in the making saying Luxon 2023" but who knows? It could be Alfred Ngaro and Christopher Luxon in their own party. So let's think about that before we talk about cracks on this side of the House. We are a very very happy coalition Government can I say who have a very happy confidence and supply partner as well. There have been lots of assertions made from the other side of the House not just in the general debate but actually during question time also. It is really important that we take the time to put numbers into perspective as was spoken about by our Minister of Finance and our Prime Minister today: 4.2 percent is the unemployment rate—4.2 percent. Hon Mark Mitchell: It's gone up. Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Yes it's up from 3.9 percent. However the three lowest unemployment rates that we've had in the last 11 years have been under this Government not that Government. In fact it was 4.7 percent when we came into power and now it is 4.2 percent. So we're very proud of that. We hear a lot from the other side of the House about beneficiary numbers and I do need to make the point that currently it sits just under 300000. I think two years consecutively it was up over 350000 under the previous Government. So they do need to reflect a little bit on their time whilst in Government and make sure that we are being transparent and honest with the public with respect to the numbers. We really are focused on making sure that we provide opportunities for New Zealanders who enter the welfare system to get the upskilling and training that they need to take up the jobs that are actually available and are going to be available moving forward. That is why we have put that investment into Mana in Mahi and other programmes targeted towards those who come through the welfare system. We've heard a lot from the other side of the House and its tired it's old its déjà vu. It shows that National have no new ideas and they still want to continue to run with policies that don't work. We've heard a lot about their social policies and for every reason I've just mentioned we won't dwell too much on that. But what I will say is it's really interesting that in their narrative they like to talk about this very small proportion of New Zealanders who are on benefits and who are in gangs—and it is a very small proportion—rather than focus on the 52 percent of New Zealanders who are on benefits and who have health conditions or disabilities or who are caring for people with health conditions and disabilities. Now you would think that anyone who had an effective social policy would want to focus on the majority of New Zealanders in the welfare system most of whom want to work but need a little bit of support to get into work and need a little bit of support from a Government to break down the barriers to getting into employment. But did we hear anything about that particular group—the majority of New Zealanders that are in the welfare system—in the social policies that were announced by the Opposition? No. Now why would that be? Why would that be? You know I hate to be cynical—I really do hate to be cynical—but I do have to think you know that rather than come up with any effective social policy they would take the political opportunity to put the boot in again and continue stigmatising people on the benefit because it works in their favour to try and draw the worst out of New Zealanders with respect to judgment and stigma in the way they might think about people in the welfare system. Now that would be cynical of me to think that but I can't help but head down that pathway. Anyway I'm really proud of the track that we are on as a Government and the fact that we are changing the narrative about people in the welfare system that we aren't like the previous Government who thought that young people were pretty damned hopeless. In fact we think they have a lot of potential and deserve the very best of support that they can get from any Government and that's what we're focused on doing. So with respect to the social development portfolio it isn't just about me. It's about all the good work our Minister of Education is doing it's about the massive investment that we put into mental health it's about the massive investment we put into public housing. We are all focused on the most vulnerable New Zealanders on this side of the House."