Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 27 March 2013. Volume:688;Page:8976. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
4. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery 
: What reports has he received about the extent of fraud allegations in the Christchurch rebuild? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Canterbury Earthquake Recovery) 
: 
 There have been a number of reports and allegations of fraud and we take these claims very seriously. All agencies are working collaboratively to investigate and prosecute where cases can be proven. For example I am aware that the Serious Fraud Office is working on two cases at the present time that meet the test for its involvement. There have been some 730 other allegations that have been investigated by various groups. The Canterbury earthquake fraud committee if you like—the group that is coming together—will involve all those agencies and it is actively pursuing any allegation and in addition to that is looking for ways in which fraud could occur. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does he agree with KPMG forensic services lead partner Stephen Bell that the extent of fraud in Christchurch could reach $1.5 billion or even 10 percent of the $30 billion rebuild; if so what systems did he put in place from the outset to prevent such fraud? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: That is the estimate that comes from an analysis of projects of this size that have been undertaken in any other parts of the world. What I can tell the member is that the Canterbury Recovery Fraud Prevention Interagency Group has been established and was established early and it involves the New Zealand Police and the Serious Fraud Office and all of the other groups that are involved in the recovery where there is public money involved. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: How many companies lost their contractor accreditation as a result of fraud in Christchurch evidence of which has been available on a daily basis and what is his explanation as Minister for his answer? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: What has been available on a routine basis has been a number of allegations made through the 0800 number that the Earthquake Commission set up. There have been over 730 claims investigated. To date the allegation line has received 448 calls. Twenty cases have been handed over to the police for prosecution. Four have been successfully prosecuted by the Earthquake Commission and there are more in the pipeline. It is estimated that $4 million has been saved through those fraud investigations. There are the two big cases being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office at the present time. And there is a file of numerous other cases where there are discrepancies in invoicing. Where that discrepancy has been agreed by the invoicer the over-invoicing has not been paid. Then there is a process that the Fletcher EQR office uses to weed out contractors who are operating in the wrong space. There are currently two very big investigations going on in that regard at the present time. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was asked how many companies have lost their contractor accreditation and for an explanation as to his answer as Minister. So it is how many companies— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Order! And I will ask—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! And I will ask the Minister whether he can address that part of the question. The difficulty was there were two phases to the supplementary question. The second part was very adequately addressed but if the Minister has that information could he give that to the House. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If he did not give an answer as to the number that have lost accreditation how could he possibly have given an adequate answer to the second part of the question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: He gave a very adequate answer to the second part but we are asking him now whether he can address the first part of the member’s question. 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: There are a number of companies that have been taken out of the system by the EQR office. I do not have those details and I cannot give the member that number at the moment but I will certainly go and have a look at it. The point I make is that there are numerous activities going on to prevent fraud at the present time. If people have allegations of fraud they can make them through the 0800 number. They are treated seriously. Bigger issues are referred to the police. In fact one has been referred to the police today. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has the Minister seen a police complaint acknowledgment against a contractor accredited by Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority Southern Demolition and Salvage Ltd regarding the falsification of time sheets? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: No that would be an operational matter and he knows that Ministers do not engage in operational matters. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If the Minister has got no idea as to what is going on because he does not want to know what is going on— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: —he should say so. But I do not know that Ministers are not aware of those sorts of facts not if you were being responsible in the case of fraud. So how— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member adequately addressed the question that you asked. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Oh anything goes now of course— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member will resume his seat. If he is going to question a ruling like that where he asked whether the Minister was aware of a particular allegation and the Minister stood and said no—he has addressed that question quite satisfactorily. If the member is going to continue to chip at that then I will not allow him any more supplementary questions. I will give him one more chance. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Supplementary question Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Supplementary question the Rt Hon Winston Peters. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I will take all the chances I am entitled to I think. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Order! The member will stand and withdraw and apologise for that remark. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Banks— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! It is not an option. The member will stand and withdraw and apologise. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw what I said to Mr Banks. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I did not hear the interjection from Mr Banks. I heard it from the member. I have asked him to withdraw. If he does he can continue. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw what I said to Mr Banks. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Then the member can now continue with his supplementary question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. If companies such as Southern Demolition and Salvage Ltd are found to have committed fraud will they be removed from the list of accredited contractors on the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority website; if not why not? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Yes. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table a complaint to New Zealand Police by Bruce Herbert Williamson regarding the falsification of time sheets by Southern Demolition and Salvage Ltd a subcontractor to the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority which challenge the Minister put to me last week if I had evidence. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is definitely no objection. The document can be tabled. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.