Hide Rodney: Debate on Crown Entities Public Organisations  and State Enterprises — In Committee 
Hide Rodney: Debate on Crown Entities Public Organisations  and State Enterprises — In Committee 
[Volume:626;Page:21309] 
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
: 
 I should say upfront that none of this is personal about the Minister of Health. I actually quite like Annette King. I think that she is a lovely lady and is good fun but I have to say that she is the most inept Minister of Health we have ever had. We see that from the data we now have before us in this country. While we are doing the financial reviews I shall take members through the Treasury report. It is damning of Annette King and I shall read from it. The report is to the Minister of Finance Michael Cullen and it states: “The current oversubscription reinforces the importance of not only managing the immediate pressures back but of addressing the unsustainable growth path of health spending over the longer term. Treasury advises that you”—that means Michael Cullen—“request the Minister of Health to manage within her allocation and that you defer any consideration of the roll-out of future allocations until the sustainability work has been completed.” The concern there was that the current expenditure path is totally unsustainable and Treasury went on to recommend that the Minister Annette King resubmit her budget providing “a reprioritisation of her current proposals so that total expenditure comes within the allocation and a demonstration of how she will manage known risks so that expenditure remains within the agreed funding track.” 
Why did Treasury recommend that? Because that Minister cannot manage. That Minister has taken the expenditure on health up to $3.6 billion a year and produced worse outcomes than previously. She has actually produced worse outcomes. She has increased expenditure by 57 percent. The number of operations has increased by 1.3 percent. [ 
Interruption 
] Government members do not like to hear their own numbers. The number of operations has increased by only 1.3 percent. [ 
Interruption 
] They do not like it do they? They do not like to hear their own numbers come back. We know that Steve Chadwick the chair of the Health Committee said in this Chamber last week that no New Zealanders on the health waiting list were in pain—that is what she thinks. We know that Annette King has totally failed. Why? She told the National Party that to have 96000 people on the waiting list was “criminal”. How many people are on the health waiting list now? There are 180000 people on the health waiting list. They are queued up waiting to get on the waiting list. 
Here is another thing. Annette King said to the Health Committee that she would take the district health board deficits down to zero. What happened? What is the deficit at the Auckland District Health Board? 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: $83.4 million. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Annette King poured money in and got no result. I am afraid that as a Minister she is a total failure. That is why $3.5 billion— 
Hon Annette King 
: Louder. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: The Minister asks me to speak louder. She should actually ask her colleagues not to set up a barrage of interjections—I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. It is not about whether I can take it; it is about the Chair. [ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated. The member knows very well there will be silence during points of order. That is the final warning. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. That is the problem. You are not applying the rules at any stage. The Government whip just called out during a point of order. Opposition members are invariably asked to leave when they do that. It is against the Standing Orders to set up a barrage. I am having to speak through six Government members who are not actually interjecting. That would be one thing but they are just calling out a barrage so no one can hear me speak. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I have heard your point of order. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I am not finished on my point of order. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I have heard your point of order. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Well you will hear another one. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Hide I have heard your point of order. When I get to my feet you must sit down. I accept that there was barracking and that it was too much. I ask members to refrain from barracking. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. The Government whip called out during my point of order. The rule that has been set down on that by the Speaker is very clear. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated. I have dealt with that matter. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: No please continue your speech. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated. I have dealt with the point of order that was raised and I have spoken to the Government whip and given a general warning. There was a lot of barracking going on from all sides. I have spoken about that. Mr Hide I ask you to continue your speech. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I want you to explain to me the rules. There was a lot of barracking but not from all sides; it was only from the Government side. My point of order about the Government whip calling out is that there was no barracking while I made my point of order. There was one interjection from a Government whip. The rules that have been set down in this House are very clear. Whenever an Opposition MP calls out during a point of order the member is immediately shot out of the Chamber. Madam Chairperson I would like you to explain why the Government whip who should be setting the standard and certainly should be held to the same standard as other MPs is allowed to get away with that. What is the difference? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I give you another warning about raising points of order that are not points of order. When I have dealt with a point of order that is the end of the matter. I have dealt with that point of order. There was a lot of barracking. I have dealt with the two points of order that you raised. I give you a warning that raising points of order that are not points of order is in itself disorderly. I now ask you to continue your speech. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Hide please be seated. Your point of order will be heard if it is a new point of order. You will not relitigate the two rulings that I have given. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I am not relitigating your ruling. I want to understand what you are applying here. You have not— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Hide you will be seated please. You are relitigating my rulings and I ask you to continue with your speech. [ 
Interruption 
] 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Thank you. So what we see from this Labour Government—[ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Order! Please continue. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: So what we see from this Government—[ 
Interruption 
] I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated. I had asked that the barraging stop. I want Mr Hide to continue his speech in silence. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Is it the point I have dealt with? 
RODNEY HIDE 
: No it is a new one. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Point of order Rodney Hide. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: When Darren Hughes called out he was in direct defiance of your ruling. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Hide please be seated. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I have not finished my point of order. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated Mr Hide. As you know interjections are tolerated. There was an interjection and then another one. When the second one was called out—although it was not barracking from one person—because there had been a lot previously I said you could continue your speech in silence. I expect there to be silence. That matter has been dealt with. I warn you again not to trifle with the Chair—not to relitigate the ruling I have given. Please continue with your speech. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. My point of order is this and you have not yet heard it. You gave a ruling and you said there was to be no barracking. I sat down. Immediately Darren Hughes barracked. That was not an interjection. You silenced him. I stood up to speak again. He immediately barracked. He is still in the Chamber and I say he is the member who is defying the Chair not me. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Hide I will give you one final warning. You are relitigating what I have already ruled on. Please continue with your speech. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I have sat quietly and watched this interesting exchange. I think the problem we have here is that it appears that Mr Hughes has moved to another seat in order to gain advantage from the microphone being closer to you. There is no doubt that your instruction was that Mr Hide would be heard in silence. Then Mr Hughes—the very young member that he is and with perhaps a slightly impetuous nature—barked quite loudly towards Mr Hide. I think at least some rebuke of Mr Hughes would be necessary. He may even like to resume his own seat which is much further away from the interference zone than where he is currently sitting. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I thank the member for his assistance. However I have dealt with the matter. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: What we see from this Labour Government is an inability for the Minister of Health to front up to the big issues. We have to have Trevor Mallard Darren Hughes and the fishmonger’s wife Jill Pettis stand up here. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I am sure you heard what that member said and I am surprised you are not on your feet already to deal with it. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The member knows that that is not acceptable. Members are to be called by their correct name. I ask the member to withdraw and apologise for that remark. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. The Chair cannot anticipate a speaker. From where I am sitting I clearly took the inference that after the name “Jill Pettis” there was a full stop and there was then the start of a new sentence which was not allowed to progress because of the point of order raised by Trevor Mallard. I would be quite interested to know what Mr Hide has to say about the fishwife. I am sure there is a lot more to come. I am sure it is not offensive to the Committee and I say that Mr Mallard should be asked to contain himself until he understands the circumstances in which any particular comment is made. I notice that Mrs Pettis also understood there was a full stop after her name. She certainly does not look offended to me. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I just warn the member. Please be seated. I am dealing with this point of order which was not a point of order. Mr Brownlee that came close to trifling with the Chair. I had dealt with the matter. The member had apologised. I ask the member to continue his speech. 
Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. We may have a dilemma here. You have ruled and I am not questioning your ruling that the member should be heard in silence. The issue then arises that those of us who are offended against by for instance Mr Hide’s last reference to a particular member are then precluded from any retaliation at all. I am not challenging your ruling. I just seek your advice. When it is ruled that a member of Parliament should be heard in silence that is fair but if that member then decides to hurl abuse and make derogatory comments or to use derogatory names about members on any side of the Chamber those members have no option regarding that and cannot retaliate. I seek your advice on that point. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I just make this point. The members I believe overdid their interjections and that is why I asked that the member be heard in silence. That is the price to be paid. However the point of order that was raised by Mr Mallard was dealt with. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I just ask you to clarify the rules of this debate. Is my understanding correct that this is a fixed 3-hour debate and that all these points of order have come out of the time that the Opposition has to scrutinise the Government? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The member is correct. It is a fixed 3-hour timed debate. This time comes off the members’ time so we have probably wasted the equivalent of one speech. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: The fishmonger’s wife too is stuck on the waiting list. That is the trouble. We have 180000 New Zealanders stuck on the waiting list. The fishmonger’s wife the cobbler’s wife and the baker’s wife are all stuck on the health waiting list and here we have Steve Chadwick— 
Jill Pettis 
: Yes we can change our occupations but you will be out of here. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Order Jill Pettis! Order! The member’s time has expired. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I stopped and because you were talking I sat down. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Your speech time had finished. 
Rodney Hide 
: Yes but I am interested in why you were talking over my speech while my time was still going over the microphone. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I was calling for order. Your speech time had finished and I wanted to call the next speaker. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. Is Jill Pettis in trouble or does she get away with that one too? 
Jill Pettis 
: Tell him to dry up. Grow up! 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I am on my feet. I warn the member. Mr Hide I have dealt with the matter.