Shirley Ken: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Shirley Ken: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18800] 
11.  
Hon KEN SHIRLEY (ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: What specifically was compensated by the $40 million he agreed in November 2001 to give as a Treaty of Waitangi settlement to Te Wananga o Aotearoa? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 The settlement follows a Waitangi Tribunal decision and the comments by the then Minister Max Bradford that the “present facilities are inadequate to allow the wananga to teach in an appropriate environment”. It compensates the wananga for the Crown’s failure to protect and support the wananga through the equivalent full-time students funding system and for failing to provide the claimant with capital grants on the same basis as other tertiary institutions. If the member had asked me for a copy I would have given one to him. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Why is it that my office has in fact been trying to get this report from the Minister and was denied it and the press were trying to get it from his office and were denied it right up until yesterday and yet once my question was lodged the report miraculously became available; and can the Minister explain to the House what he was so ashamed of in this document that he kept it secret for 4 years and would not let it be exposed to public scrutiny? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: It is my understanding that it was made widely available at the time it was signed. It is a document that was promoted by the ACT party. The ACT spokesperson said that the wananga had never had capital funding from the Government—only a very small amount—and had really had to subsist. That is what the ACT party said at the time. 
Dr Ashraf Choudhary 
: Who made the decision to uncap the funding and what rationale was given at the time? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The decision to uncap the funding was made under the National Government. With reference to the wananga Wyatt Creech said: “This new policy allows it to fund every student that comes through its doors. What can be unfair about that?”. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Can the Minister confirm that the wananga’s claim for a capital injection was rejected by the National - New Zealand First coalition and will he also confirm that the request was rejected on the basis that since the wananga’s inception it had received capital funding by way of equivalent full-time student funding and that any further capital injection would be double-dipping? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: My understanding is that that was correct at the time. The coalition then broke up and the National Party policy changed. That is probably why Don Brash and Rongo Wetere spent so much time together last weekend. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Why did the Minister and his colleague Dr Cullen sign a detailed agreement in 2001 that specified education outcomes completion dates and quality measures when that clearly meant nothing as the Minister continued to throw massive amounts of money at this organisation in spite of having his own appointee on the wananga council? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think that for a large period of time there were four appointees out of 18 to 20 on the council. It is fair to say that all generous interpretations are that the wananga had met the numbers required by the document. 
Hon Bill English 
: I seek leave to table the deed of settlement dated 16 November 2001 signed by Michael John Cullen and Trevor Colin Mallard. 
Document not tabled. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: What is the Minister’s response to the deal between Lytton High School in Gisborne and the wananga in which the wananga paid $3500 to sponsor five pupils and a teacher to participate in a hip-hop festival in Christchurch last September and in return each pupil was required to enrol 10 people in the wananga’s Mahi Ora programme—an exercise that delivered approximately $90000 in equivalent full-time student funding to the wananga? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: That is one of the problems with an uncapped arrangement for that sort of institution. 
Larry Baldock 
: I seek leave of the House to table a copy of the National - New Zealand First coalition agreement which promised to provide stable Government for a 3-year term from 1999 to 2002. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. Incidentally leave should be sought at the end of each question. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: What is the Minister’s response to the fact that the wananga gave a $12 million contract to an air-conditioning refrigeration company called Power Chill that is owned by a son of the chief executive of the wananga who was also a salaried executive of the wananga when the contract did not go out for tender? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think it is another one of the long list of matters that is going to the Auditor-General’s inquiry. It is I think typical of a lack of proper procedures lack of proper governance and lack of proper management at the wananga and it is the reason that I have intervened. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why does the Minister speak as if the wananga has had uncapped funding when in 2003 the Government imposed a growth cap on all tertiary institutions and then made an exception for the wananga with the result that last year the wananga received over $50 million more than if he had kept his own cap in place? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: My understanding is that the figures that the member has given are inaccurate. I understand the agreement the wananga negotiated with the Tertiary Education Commission resulted in lower total equivalent full-time student funding over a 3-year period rather than higher. The member is wrong again. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: With respect to the practices being outlined by Mr Shirley—without one document to back him up at this point in time—has he seen the comments from Tariana Turia about the non-tendering of contracts being part and parcel of the Maori whanau and kinship concept or has he taken that to mean that that is her understanding of Maori family planning? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I have heard expressions that it may not be appropriate to use in this House. It is absolutely inappropriate for there to be a double standard in this area. Just because someone is Maori does not mean that he or she should give contracts to mates. It might be a Tory practice but it does not happen on the Government side of the House. I call on Don Brash to condemn his very good friend Rongo Wetere with whom he spent much of the last weekend. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Now the member will just leave the Chamber. 
Hon Chris Carter withdrew from the Chamber. 
Rodney Hide 
: Did the Minister know that the wananga sponsored the students from Lytton High School in return for each of them gathering up 10 students to take more taxpayer money and did he know of the contract to Power Chill—to Rongo Wetere’s son—and if he did not know that what on earth were his four appointees to the wananga council doing? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No I did not know. The member should remember that in the terms of appointments to councils there is not a direct reporting relationship. 
Hon Bill English 
: I seek leave to table a detailed report from an education review of the Government’s decision to cap all tertiary institutions and to make an exception for the wananga. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rt Hon Helen Clark 
: I seek leave to table evidence that Rongo Wetere was a front-runner for the job of National Party Maori vice-president. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Anyone can deny it. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I seek leave to table documents and correspondence relating to the sponsorship of Lytton High School by the wananga and also documents relating to the company Power Chill. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Can the Minister confirm that when the previous National Government declined to accept the Waitangi Tribunal’s recommendation that funding the wananga was a treaty claim the then Opposition did publicly agree with that; if that was so given the fact that he has told the House that before he became Minister he had concerns about the wananga could he run by us again why the Labour Government signed a deal to give it $40 million? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Payments were of course made by the National Party for capital. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why did you sign then? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I did not sign anything. Please give an answer. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The National Party did make capital payments post the Waitangi Tribunal decision. The settlement was something that was supported by the ACT education spokesperson at the time and I am not aware or I cannot recall positions taken pre the Waitangi Tribunal decision. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister did not answer the question. He was the one who had concerns back then when he signed that document. He was asked very clearly by Mr Prebble given that he had those concerns why he signed it. It is very interesting that Donna Awatere Huata supported the signing of it but we were interested in why the Minister signed it. Not once did he address his behaviour as Minister in answering that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister must comment on that part. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I refer the member to my answer to the original question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No that is not satisfactory. I want the Minister to address the question as I said. If he wants to answer by referring to another answer he gave he is entitled to and I want him to do so. The question was properly asked. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I refer the member to the original answer to the first question which was that I agreed with Mr Bradford that the facilities were inadequate and that compensation—this was the Government’s view and my view—was appropriate in terms of the Waitangi Tribunal’s decision.