Coleman Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Coleman Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:630;Page:2064] 
11.  
Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National—Northcote) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Is he concerned about the Government’s ability to meet New Zealanders’ need for elective surgery; if not why not? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 While I am delighted that the number of elective surgery procedures has increased by 12.6 percent on a case-weighted basis under this Government and by more than that when our patient procedures are taken into account there is always more to be done. This Government will never be complacent. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Can he explain from behind his statistical smokescreen why the Auckland District Health Board— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Ironic expressions in questions are forbidden by the Standing Orders. That is about as clear a case of one as one can get. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes. Would the member just ask the question please. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Can the Minister explain why the Auckland District Health Board performed 813 coronary bypass operations in 2002 yet 3 years later in 2005 less than half that number—394—were performed? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: No I cannot because the member did not give me any notice that that was what the question was to be about. So I am not able to answer him. If the member wants to hide behind a bland primary question then his supplementary question will not get a good answer. What I need to do is to take a bit of a guess. All I can say is that around the country and therefore I assume in Auckland as well coronary artery bypass grafts are giving way to another form of surgery an earlier intervention known as angioplasty which reduces the need for coronary artery bypass grafts—which I would have thought a doctor would know about. 
Maryan Street 
: By the end of last year how many more people had commitments for elective surgery compared with the year prior? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: In December 2005 there were 4600 more people with commitments for elective surgery than there were in December 2004. That is 4600 more people who were benefiting from this Government’s work to create a fairer more transparent elective surgery system. The days when people were left on waiting lists with no guarantee of treatment as was the case under a National Government are gradually coming to an end. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Will the Minister accept that the number of angioplasties that he mentioned only rose from 930 to 1080 during the period under discussion which in no way explains the massive drop in open-heart operations; and will he also accept that 133 people who have been seen by an Auckland District Health Board heart surgeon are sicker than the threshold for treatment yet have been given no commitment that they will actually receive an operation? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Again I say to the member that because he does not give notice of what his deep dark question is to be about an informed answer cannot be given. So I shall have to make a guess at this one as well. The member has done the classic thing: he has quoted the Auckland District Health Board without recognising that the Waitemata District Health Board and the Counties Manukau District Health Board have over recent years significantly increased their surgical procedures. Has he drawn that fact to the attention of the House? No he has not. Why has he not done that? Because he prefers to obfuscate. That is not a good look. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Would the Minister be so— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The question will be heard in silence. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Would the Minister be so eye-poppingly angry if— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry but the member already been warned. Just ask the question without a comical comment please. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Would the Minister further explain why as of January 2006 a further 140 sick people in the Auckland District Health Board area had been given a commitment to open-heart surgery but had been on the waiting list for over 6 months? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I do not know because the member did not indicate at the beginning of the question what the question was to be about and that is where the matter rests. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Will the Minister be embarrassed if patients on the heart surgery waiting list of Auckland District Health Board are advised that the district health board cannot give them any assurance of when their operation will take place and that they should consider all options including going private if they can afford it? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Certainly people who can afford to go private will consider that as an option but the public health system in this country is dealing with more and more elective surgery cases each year than the year before—more and more New Zealanders are getting their elective surgery. What is more the number of New Zealanders who have crossed the treatment threshold but have not received their surgery has dropped by one-third in the past 18 months. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Firstly let me observe that today we had a member of our caucus thrown out of the House as a result of that member’s considerable frustration at the way in which a question was being answered. When you consider the answers that Mr Hodgson has given I think you can get a sense of just how that frustration builds. This question dealing with elective surgery has been on the Order Paper since 11 o’clock this morning. The Minister has repeatedly said: “Oh there’s more elective surgery going on in the country than ever before.” but every time he is confronted with some appalling statistics showing that that is not the case he simply says: “I don’t know.” and “The member should have asked a more specific question.” I do not think that helps order in the House and I do not think it brings this Parliament into great respect. I ask you to consider perhaps ruling that Ministers should answer questions or at least address questions that are on the Order Paper. Saying “I don’t know.” would stand as an answer but to go on and give some speech of qualification behind why the Minister does not know that seems to be a condemnation of the person asking the question is just unacceptable. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: It has been a long tradition in this House that—and I can remember my predecessor the Hon Fraser Colman using the phrase—if a member wants a specific answer to a detailed question the member either asks a written question or gives proper notice of the nature of the specific detail required. That has been the history of the House and I think new members have to understand that if they do want details that drive right down to the number of open-heart surgeries in a particular hospital they have to be more specific in the original question or give notice. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I understand the points of order and I thank the members. I am not clear exactly what the point of order was because the Minister did address the question and that is a common way to address questions of that nature—to ask for notice to be given of the specifics. If members want the rules changed then they should take that matter to the Standing Orders Committee and we can review those rules. 
Ron Mark 
: Given the National Party’s new-found interest in cardiothoracic issues I seek the leave— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please get to his point of order without interpolating. Would Mr Mark just state his point of order please. 
Ron Mark 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a series of newspaper articles from 1997 to 1998— 
Hon David Carter 
: Ha ha! 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry but members are on notice that when points of orders and questions are being given they are to be without interruption. Would members please respect the member asking the question and would the member please put his point of order. 
Ron Mark 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a series of newspaper articles from 1997 to 1998 when New Zealand First was seeking to have a cardiothoracic unit built in Christchurch and it was consistently fought and opposed by Gerry Brownlee David Carter and Bill English. Fortunately we won and it was established. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I seek leave to table a series of newspaper articles from the same period of time that show that the money that had been previously allocated for a heart unit in Christchurch was snaffled by New Zealand First to fund Aotearoa Television. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table countless press statements in respect of Aotearoa Television which was the brainchild of one Maurice Williamson the then Minister of Broadcasting. Those are the facts. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.