Hipkins Chris: Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeHipkins Chris: Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 26 September 2013. Volume:693;Page:13817. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka): I am happy to take a brief call on the Administration of Community Sentences and Orders Bill.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: So are we.CHRIS HIPKINS: My colleague Clayton Cosgrove is very excited about the fact that I am speaking on this bill. I want to just begin by placing a caution around the use of official crime statistics because in my view 99 percent of official crime statistics are rubbish because they are very easily manipulated. They are based on reported crime normally and there are a whole lot of factors that impact on whether in fact the crime is reported in the first place. I am getting some very interesting looks from Mr Sabin over there but official crime statistics are very easily manipulated.In fact if we look at them over time—which is often where we use crime statistics; we look at them over time—actually societal norms around what is reported often changes. If you look at official crime statistics for domestic violence for example the reporting of domestic violence is now more common than it used to be. A lot of domestic violence previously went unreported but there are a whole lot of reasons why a lot of the domestic violence that takes place today still goes unreported. So the official crime statistics can often be incredibly misleading and I think we need to be a little cautious—Mike Sabin: You can’t report what you don’t know about.CHRIS HIPKINS: I know about it. I know quite a lot about it actually. And we need—Mike Sabin: No no—I say people can’t report what they don’t know about.CHRIS HIPKINS: Yes that’s right. People cannot report—absolutely. But that simply reinforces the point that the official crime statistics can be misleading and that we need to be very careful about placing a lot of emphasis on official crime statistics when we are making decisions.I do want to however compliment the Government for this piece of legislation actually because this is the sort of legislation that the National Party would have likely railed against when it was in Opposition. In fact it did rail against many of the very measures that are in this bill and that it was vehemently opposed to when it was last in Opposition. I am pleased to see that it has seen the light and in fact it is now willing to make decisions in this area based on what actually works. If we want to get serious about reducing recidivism and reducing reoffending we do actually need to look at the evidence of what works rather than looking at what is going to be popular because those two things are quite often very different. No Government and no Opposition ever won votes by promising to be soft on crime and no Government or Opposition ever lost votes through the reverse. It is very clear that there is definitely a public appetite for Governments and for political parties to be hard on crime. There is a clear public appetite for that. But actually things like many of the measures contained in this legislation actually—Mike Sabin: I think it’s being effective on crime.CHRIS HIPKINS: Effective on crime? That is quite right actually—we do need—Mike Sabin: Effective policing effective on crime.Andrew Little: Telling cops to lay fewer charges is not being effective on crime.CHRIS HIPKINS: Well actually Mike Sabin makes a very good point—it is about being effective on crime. But Andrew Little also makes an even better point which is that telling cops to under-report crime does not actually make us more effective on crime at all. Unfortunately there is enough of that going on at the moment where crimes are going unreported and they are not being recorded in the official crime statistics. That does not mean that they are not happening; it just means that they are not being adequately reported. I think that is fundamentally wrong.David Shearer: Take a call Mike.CHRIS HIPKINS: I am actually looking forward to MikeSabin’s call on this bill. We have still got plenty of time and he has a lot to say on this bill. I think it would be a real shame if the National Party were not to allow somebody like Mike Sabin—Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Ex-policeman.CHRIS HIPKINS: —an ex-policeman who clearly has a lot of experience in this area to take a call. I think it would be very disappointing if the National Government were not to allow somebody who knows something about this to actually—Mike Sabin: I don’t need to because the member’s threaded enough of my comments into his speech.CHRIS HIPKINS: —speak on this. In fact I am happy to give up the rest of my time. If he would like to speak on the bill I am happy to give up the rest of my time.Mike Sabin: No you’ve clearly articulated my position.CHRIS HIPKINS: He does not actually want to say anything on this legislation even though I offered him the remainder of my speaking time. Clearly he does not want to say anything on this. Clearly the National Party has told him to keep his head down and stay quiet. I think that is rather unfortunate.I said that this was going to be a brief contribution and I intend it to be a brief contribution because I know that my colleague Louisa Wall wants to say something before we do run out of time in this debate. Overall I think that these are welcome measures. I look forward to seeing them progressing through the House.