Andersen Ginny; O'Connor GregHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour): Thank you Mr Chair. I thought I'd better take a call on this amendment given it's in my name. I'd just like the record to reflect also that we really didn't get any answers back from the Minister in relation to our first suggestion to the fact that giving judges less information—I still think it's an important point if this bill is proceeding through all stages under urgency and there's no opportunity for members of the public to be able to submit I think the very least the Minister could potentially do is to have a go at answering some of the questions that we're putting forward or at least explaining as to why these ideas aren't being taken up. It's pretty tough for members of the public to watch legislation being made at pace without any open democratic access to submit or have a view put forward on these ideas. So from this side of the House we would heartily encourage the Minister to engage on these questions because the general public do want to have some answers because it directly affects them.To the point of my proposed amendment which is that this Act replace clause 1 with This Act is the Legal Services (Removing Access to Reports for Poor People) Amendment Act 2024". This goes to the point that if you want one of these section 27 reports going forward after this legislation has passed then you have to pay for it. So it is a fiscal barrier to people accessing justice. If there are key factors that need to be brought to the judge's attention the most effective way of doing this is through those section 27 reports. And by putting a fiscal barrier in here and requiring anybody who wishes to have one of these to go and privately fund them that is not fair. It is not fair to New Zealanders and it is not fair in order for the full ability to understand how this person's rehabilitation—understand how this person can stop offending that is prevented from even happening because if they are unable to pay for this then they are effectively being denied justice. As a Government to deny people access to justice is pretty fundamental. So I believe that the Minister does need to explain why he is placing a fiscal barrier to those New Zealanders who are unable to pay for these reports and therefore preventing them from receiving fair access to justice.I think it's also important to note the implications of this bill for certain demographics within New Zealand. As we do know there is a disproportionate representation of Māori within the criminal justice system. These reports do provide a real opportunity for people to be able to have a range of factors brought to the courtroom and brought in front of the judge and you are disproportionately affecting one demographic within New Zealand and that is also unfair. We know for a fact that it is already difficult for Māori to access justice—we have many reports demonstrating that. And it is my view that this piece of legislation adds to that weight against iwi Māori and weighs against their ability to access justice and get fairness in front of our courts.I understand that there's some political posturing going on in terms of saying you're going to be able to save taxpayers a bunch of money but at the same time if you're chucking up their petrol taxes a whole heap why don't you just give Māori fair access to justice?CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Ms Andersen narrower please."