Russell Deborah; Kuriger Barbara; Lyndon HūhanaHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour): Thank you Madam Chair. I want to go back to the question I asked earlier when I asked the Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing which were the four or so credit ratings agencies and it's for a practical reason. I took myself to have a quick look at those websites to have a look at the sort of information that is available from those credit ratings agencies and there are in fact a variety of credit reports available. But—to the Minister respectfully—the information that is available from those credit agencies does not seem to be the same sort of information that is available in this Business Payment Practices Bill that would have been made available by that. So the particular information that's made available in the Business Payment Practices Bill is not the creditworthiness of a supplier of an entity it's not their credit record and so on. What the Business Payment Practices Bill supplies us with is information about how long an entity takes to pay. I've actually had a longstanding interest in this. Back in the Parliament of 2017 to 2020 I had a member's bill in the ballot looking at requiring companies to disclose information about their payment practices time. I was alerted to that by David Cormack who I know will be known to many of you. He came and talked to me about some of the difficulties around businesses getting paid and so we looked at having at least a disclosure regime so that businesses would have to disclose how long they took to pay invoices. Now that information is available. Businesses do have creditors' ledgers which record where they owe money to and how long it is since they were paid and actually sometimes that's not related to their creditworthiness—famously Fonterra was taking a very long time to pay its bills for no good reason. My concern here Minister and I would like to hear your thoughts on it is the extent to which the information that is sitting in the Business Payment Practices Bill can be obtained—sorry it's not in the bill; if it was this wouldn't have been brought in—by small businesses who want to know how long it is going to take for them to get paid. So it's a different set of information and I couldn't find it and certainly not at that low price you've quoted of $35 on the various credit ratings agencies. So there are a couple of things there that I guess you could address. One is the extent to which businesses can get that information or that length of payment time but also whether—you know perhaps they could get it one way or another but is that available at what you have suggested is the low cost of $35 or would they in fact have to pay a higher fee to those various credit ratings agencies in order to get that kind of information? CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): I'm going to take a call from Hūhana Lyndon. I'm looking for any particularly new questions. It's a very narrow bill and as the Minister said before it's very hard to amend an Act that's about to be repealed. So very specific questions for the Minister from here on in thank you. HŪHANA LYNDON (Green): Thank you Madam Chair. I'm just really wanting to go to the heart of the matter I guess and our fundamental principles and relationships of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Consultation is one thing—and having a dinner recently is awesome with Māori business—but ultimately what in the lead-up to introducing this legislation under urgency did the Minister undertake to engage with te Iwi Māori—te Iwi Māori and the relationship with the Government through Te Tiriti. I haven't heard an answer for my colleague Scott Willis in terms of stakeholder engagement and then we've heard the response to my learned colleague Rawiri Waititi. But in terms of the Te Tiriti relationship what guidance or offers of advice did you receive from iwi Māori and did you receive any advice from Crown officials in terms of how compliant this legislation is with Te Tiriti? Kia ora.