Naylor Jono: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — First ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNaylor Jono: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — First Reading[Sitting date: 12 March 2015. Volume:703;Page:2225. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]JONO NAYLOR (National): This is a very great opportunity to be able to come and talk about something that is of such significance to New Zealand to our nation that we need to spend some significant time talking about it. We need to ensure we have a good process so that we make a good decision at the end of the process.This is a very important debate. It is not something you would do once every parliamentary term. It is not something you would do every 10 20 30 or even 40 years. But it is something that should or perhaps could be done every 100 years or so. The current flag was put in place in 1902 so it probably is a good time for us to stop and ponder the future of our flag in New Zealand. The last 100 years have seen some significant changes in our country good changes a lot of them; different changes at different times. But if a flag is to be a unifying symbol of sovereignty of our heritage and our values then from time to time albeit every 100 years or so perhaps it is appropriate for us to have another look at it and ask whether the flag still reflects our heritage our sovereignty our values and the make-up of our nation.It is an important debate but it is also an emotional debate. As has been said by many speakers this flag is one that has been fought under. It is one that people have died under. It is a flag that has been draped over the shoulders of gold medallists and has been raised while our anthem has been played on many different occasions. It is a flag that has been flown at half mast on sombre occasions. A lot of emotion is attached to those different events when the flag is involved. So we need to be careful in our process how we go about it and how we address any potential change to it.It is also a potentially divisive debate. We have already seen from what has been said in the House this afternoon that there are differing views even on the process and also differing views on what the flag of New Zealand should look like. If I may coin a phrase from the Australian State of Origin series it is the kind of issue that would pit mate against mate. It is the kind of thing that there will be much debate over at the barbecues in the pubs and in the school classrooms. Because it is a divisive debate it is something we need to handle with care. It is something we should not necessarily lump in with a general election; it is something that is deserving of having that singular focus in terms of the way we address this issue.Before really thinking about this I asked myself a number of questions. They were questions I asked myself but they were also questions other people have asked while I have been speaking to them as I have gone out and about on my business. The first question is why we are having this debate. Is it really worth the emotional trauma that seems to be going along with it? Is it really worth the potential divisiveness? The answer is yes because there has been a growing level of interest across our nation in debating this issue and in people having their say about whether we should retain the flag we have or change it.So it is worth it. It is something that reflects I think our society as it is where people are questioning all sorts of things from whether or not we should keep the monarchy—I do not want to get side-tracked into that debate today. While those questions are resounding around our communities it is absolutely worth us having this debate and this discussion. Whatever the outcome of this process whether it be that we keep the existing flag or we change the flag we will be better for it I believe as a nation because we will have really wrestled with the issues that surround our national heritage our national values and how we reflect that through a flag.So I asked myself the question why people are looking at this now. Why is it an important decision for people to be making now? What is so wrong with our current flag? One of the big things I hear from so many people is that in one corner of the flag is the Union Jack and that reflects only a very small part now of our New Zealand heritage. I know that for me my English heritage looks and can find St George’s cross and my Scottish heritage looks and can find the St Andrew’s cross. The part of me that is a bit Irish cannot find anything in there to celebrate. That is probably pretty much reflected I think by anybody with Irish descent when it comes to the Union Jack. But I think that although we have the Union Jack there there are some people who would do it. It reflects only one part of our culture.Ron Mark: A small part.JONO NAYLOR: Yes absolutely a small part. We hear at the moment just how many people we have from other nations not simply from the United Kingdom. This New Zealand place is not the United Kingdom. There is in fact a plethora of people from all sorts of cultures. There is nothing on our flag currently that for example really signifies anything of significance to do with Māori. I am not here to argue the fors and againsts of this flag but merely to highlight that a number of people have shown some issues with the flag and therefore it is worthy of debate.I find it really interesting actually that now New Zealand First members want to talk about it but when it came to being participants in the cross-party meeting we had about it they were nowhere to be seen. They did not want to be part of it then but now they want to shout across the House and talk about it. I find that a little bizarre. [Interruption] Anyway if I can possibly hear myself over the rant from the other side I might be able to carry on with what I really want to say.The question I then asked myself was whether this is the right process. This is such a significant process that it needs to be done formally. It needs to be done carefully and for all the reasons that have been outlined already in the House today it needs to be done respectfully. So we invited all of the parties to be a part of it and we have come up with a process that I think is one that is going to really bring out the very best result that we can achieve. I think that the approach we are taking is the right one. I know there was some discussion for example about the voting system that would be used and I am glad to see we are using a preferential system now. I think that that was a very good part of what came out of the cross-party discussion. I have got a bit of experience with preferential voting. We had the single transferable vote (STV) in my days as Mayor of Palmerston North and it served me pretty well I have to say; at least on the one occasion that we had STV when I was running for election. I think it is good because it ensures that whatever alternative comes up the fact that more than 50 percent of people agree is better than any other option that is on the table. I think that that is a very good process.I am not normally one in favour of referendums. When we had a lot of talk during the election about whether we should have binding citizens initiated referenda and the like I was not very happy about the idea because so often when you have a binding referendum of any kind the question can be very much flawed and lead to a level of ambiguity. But I think that the questions we have that are related to these two referendums clearly point us in the right direction to ensure we will get a very positive result for New Zealand.I want to address the order of the two questions and the order of the two referendums which has been sort of disputed I guess by the other side of the House. I am concerned that people do not want to engage in the debate before they simply write it off and that is what is being proposed by having this yes or no choice up front. I for one have not made up my mind as to whether or not I believe we should change the flag quite simply because I do not know what the alternative would be. There are many many people I know out there who are yet to make up their minds whether or not they believe we should change the flag because they are waiting to see what the alternative would be. Putting a yes or no choice up front eliminates them from the equation. So we have got the process right. We are moving in the right direction.Finally I just want to touch on the point that people have said there are more important issues right now for us to discuss. If I were to ask whether this is the most important issue for New Zealand right now of course the answer would be no. But I have complete confidence in this Government—while it is still working hard to improve the educational outcomes of New Zealand which we are doing; while we are working hard on delivering Better Public Services which we are doing; and while we are continuing to work towards better health targets which we are achieving—also being able to cope with this issue. That is something we are seeking to do.So Mr Assistant Speaker Tisch no doubt it is of no surprise to you in summary that I absolutely support this process. It is a good process it is a healthy process and it is one that I believe will deliver whatever result is the right result for New Zealand and for our flag going forward. Thank you.