12. Question No. 12—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 12—Social Development and Employment12. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her statement the welfare system should not be used as a tool for the justice system"; if so does she still support the use of the warrant to arrest sanction policy?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Yes I do stand by my statement. I also stand by our record of an 87 percent drop in sanctions that impact children since June 2017; 95000 sole parents better off by $166 per week on average than they were in 2017; and a drop in the number of children in poverty by 66500 because this Government is focused on making progress to improve the wellbeing of New Zealand families. In regards to the second part of the question I do not support the use of the warrant-to-arrest sanction but the work has paused. There is so much work under way in the welfare and employment areas. As Minister I have to prioritise the work we have on the work programme. The accomplishments I listed off indicate we are getting the mahi done.Ricardo Menéndez March: What further work beyond advice that she has already received in the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report does she need to do to end the warrant-to-arrest benefit sanctions she doesn't agree with?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Cross-agency work would be required in order to develop the legislation and operationalise the removal. The extensive amount of work already under way by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) means that that is not possible at the moment. The work under way at the moment includes implementing child support pass-on; rolling out the increase in dental grants; leading the Working for Families review; working with the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development on the emergency housing review; rolling out the expansion of Mana in Mahi He Poutama Rangatahi and Māori trades training; working across Government on addressing youth crime and improving youth engagement; reducing and preventing debt; and continuing our social sector commissioning work. This is on top of our business as usual which is supporting thousands of New Zealanders every day.Ricardo Menéndez March: Is she concerned that record numbers of families have been sanctioned by the warrant-to-arrest sanction under her watch leaving children without sufficient income to live with when she doesn't even agree with this harmful sanction?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The number of people receiving a sanction for warrant to arrest has grown slowly since 2017 but can fluctuate from quarter to quarter. This is because the total notifications from the Ministry of Justice have increased. MSD does not control this. But if we look at the impacts that the two sanctions we have repealed have had compared to the warrants to arrest—one for children—I think we see some stark difference in numbers. The removal of section 192 was estimated to benefit 24000 children and the removal of the subsequent child policy was estimated to benefit over 40000 children based on 2021 data. That compares to around 975 children through warrant to arrest over the period of a year. We do have to prioritise. We can't do everything at once. As I've said to that member the work has paused on that particular sanction.Ricardo Menéndez March: How many more families with children is she comfortable sanctioning for things like outstanding parking fines before she starts prioritising ending a sanction that she doesn't even agree with?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I've given a really clear rationale for why that work needed to pause. I'm very much focused as well on ensuring that where children's parents are able to work we have a welfare system with employment support that supports them to get the upskilling and training that they need to get into the employment that they're able to get into. That is also good for those children.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agreed with Labour MP Jacinda Ardern who when debating and voting against the introduction of the warrant-to-arrest sanction by National said "People who are on benefits are either criminals drug takers or abusing their children in some way—this is the message these welfare reforms send."; if so why is she upholding a policy that treats people receiving a benefit as criminals drug takers or abusing their children in some way?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: As I've said I do not support the particular sanction and I do agree with the comments that the Prime Minister has made in the past on this particular sanction but for the reasons that I've already outlined—and it is around prioritising what's on our work programme—it is a piece of work that I've had to pause.Ricardo Menéndez March: When can she commit to begin prioritising the work to end the warrant-to-arrest sanction?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I'm not going to commit to a time for that at the moment. As I've already outlined we have a heavy work programme that is part of our Government's welfare overhaul programme. Those reforms will take some time but we have already accomplished a lot. There's just much more to do and we recognise that."