Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:620;Page:15961] 
11.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Associate Minister for the Environment 
: Was a list titled “Possible candidates for non local decision-making under the RMA” attached to a draft Cabinet paper in June; if so why did he reportedly deny the existence of this list when it was requested under the Official Information Act 1982 in August this year? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister for the Environment) 
: 
 No such list was attached to any draft Cabinet paper. I am advised that a list entitled “Possible candidates for non local decision-making under the RMA” has never been attached to a Cabinet paper draft or otherwise. However I am further advised that a list with that title which had been compiled by the Ministry of Economic Development for other purposes was erroneously included in a Ministry for the Environment draft Resource Management Act discussion paper while that paper was in the process of being written. I am informed that it remained in that draft document between 21 and 24 June 2004 before it was removed from the draft document because in the view of the ministry it was misleading as to the Government’s view about any of these projects. Finally I am advised that the discussion document was finalised on 24 June and did not contain any such list. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why did the Minister sign a letter on 20 September stating: “No specific list of major projects has been prepared under the RMA review” and furthermore why did an email from his office state: “Neither the Minister nor the ministry holds a list of projects suitable for non local government decision-making” when I have here a paper dated 24 June with no draft or anything else attached to it on ministry letterhead listing 59 projects and titled quite specifically “Possible candidates for non local decision-making under the RMA”? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The official information request from the Forest and Bird Protection Society asked for—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If members would keep quiet they would hear the answer. People have asked the Minister to speak up and I now ask Opposition members to keep quiet while the answer is being given. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The Official Information Act request from the Forest and Bird Protection Society asked for—and I quote from its letter—“A list held by the Government of major or infrastructure projects that could be suitable for the non local decision-making process outlined in the officials paper on the RMA review.” I have just said very clearly that the list that was referred to was neither titled in those terms nor— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Yes it was. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I say to the member that semantics and the exact meaning of words are important. If that member paid some attention to the actual meaning of words he would not be wasting so much money settling defamation cases out of court. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The last comments made by the Minister were out of order and he will withdraw them. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I withdraw. 
Tim Barnett 
: What solutions has the Government come up with to assist local communities when they are considering large or complex consent applications that might potentially—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I say to Mr English that this is the one warning today. I will not have interjections while questions are being asked. I am being quite generous because I think it might have been the second but I will reconsider that next time. The member can now ask the question. He can start the question again. 
Tim Barnett 
: What solutions has the Government come up with to assist local communities when they are considering large or complex consent applications that might potentially be overwhelming? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The Government is proposing a menu of solutions to support local decision-making. They include central government providing information about any national interest through a submission on a proposal funding an independent coordinator to ensure processes are run effectively directing that an application be heard jointly by councils if more than one council must give consent and also the use of the existing call-in mechanisms in the current law. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why did his office yesterday state to the New Zealand Press Association that the list of major projects had nothing to do with the Resource Management Act review—and I also refer to his answer to my earlier question that there was nothing in the paper about the Resource Management Act review—when the list of projects is titled “Possible candidates for non-local decision-making under the RMA”? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: Because it does not. I repeat that the list was compiled some time ago by the Ministry of Economic Development. The list was both speculative and outdated. If Dr Smith looked at the list he would notice that at least three of the projects on that list have already received their resource consents under existing legislation. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is this in order to table something? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: No. Because of the answer from the Minister I seek leave of the House to read exactly what the Ministry for the Environment paper states. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to read that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Do the existence of the list which includes some prisons and the Minister’s announced policies on call-in suggest that the Minister has now adopted the National Party’s policy as outlined by Don Brash a couple of months ago of removing appeal rights against prisons; if so how will he explain to the public that he proposes to take away their appeal rights against this long list of major projects that could be bulldozed through their communities? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The answer to the first question is no. I will add only that there is considerable capacity for ongoing public input and contribution on that matter indeed including as part of that select committee process which that member will chair. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Is the Minister expecting this House and the people of New Zealand to believe that his denial of the existence of that document—not once not twice but again in the House today—was anything other than a deliberate attempt to hide the most embarrassing of the documents prepared in the course of the Resource Management Act review? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I have never denied the existence of a list of major infrastructure projects. It is part of the job of the Government to monitor such economic activity. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How can he say that he has never denied the existence of such a document when his letter of 20 September states: “I am advised that no specific list of major projects suitable for non-local decision-making process has been prepared as part of the RMA review process. My office therefore holds no such list.” and furthermore an email that was sent from his office stated that neither the Minister nor the Ministry for the Environment held a list of projects suitable for non-local decision-making? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: At the end of the question I will seek leave to table both the Official Information Act request from the Forest and Bird Protection Society and my reply. It will be a matter of public record. There is no contradiction in the statements that have been made in those two letters. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Will the Minister having been caught not once not twice but three times being less than truthful about the information— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member cannot use that phrase. He will withdraw and apologise and he will then ask the question without that. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I withdraw and apologise. Will the Minister having been caught not once not twice but three times denying the existence of the list as part of a Ministry for the Environment paper follow the example of Lianne Dalziel and resign as he should? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: As I have just said there is no inconsistency in either the written or oral statements that have been made. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave of the House to table a paper from the Ministry for the Environment dated 24 June 2004 titled “Package of improvements to the RMA” and notably attachment 2 which includes a list of 59 projects— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the Official Information Act request of 12 August the letter from Mr David Benson-Pope and the email from his staff member denying the existence of the document. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those three documents. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is the Official Information Act request from the Forest and Bird Protection Society to my office on this matter and the second is my reply. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection? There is.