Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:616;Page:11641] 
12.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Minister of Civil Defence 
: Will the Government indemnify councils from any damage to life or property from the expected 1.4 million cubic metre Mt Ruapehu lahar; if not why not? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Civil Defence) 
: 
 This Government has as recently as last week reconfirmed to the Ruapehu District Council that it will receive financial help over and above what is normally allowed under Part 2 of the National Civil Defence Plan. The Government is working with the Ruapehu District Council and others to minimise their risks. This Government recognises that the Ruapehu District Council faces a unique situation and has a small rating base. This Government has worked well with councils in every civil emergency. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why did he the Prime Minister and 12 of his colleagues dismiss the advice of the Ministry of Civil Defence and Emergency Management that said that this risk to life “is above that which society would consider acceptable especially given that practical means of reducing the risk by intervening at the crater rim are available.”; and having rejected that advice of his own ministry who will be responsible for any loss of life when this lahar blows? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The Government has embarked on measures to make sure that there is little danger to life. We have chosen the best option. 
Jill Pettis 
: What measures has the Government taken to reduce the risk to life from the lahar? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Actions taken so far include first a robust ongoing lahar detection and alarm system. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Which failed. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: It has not failed yet. We have not had the lahar. Be sensible. Second there is a comprehensive response plan addressing the first 90 minutes of warnings downstream; third bunds protecting State Highway 1 and the Tongariro River; fourth raising the State Highway 49 bridge and approach work at Tangiwai; fifth on State Highway 1 and State Highway 49 signs lights and gates have been put in place; sixth Tranz Rail alarm and response plan; seventh electricity supply protection including banks where appropriate; eighth public and media information and management planning; ninth crater lake monitoring including links to the Institute of Geological and Nuclear Sciences Ltd. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to table the report that the lahar warning system failed on 20 February. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Is the Minister aware of the technical advice that this lahar is expected to be double the size of the one that killed 151 people in 1953; is he aware that the lahar risk can be removed by just 3 days of work by a bulldozer on the mountain that would cost just $68000; if he is aware of those facts why does he let political correctness over Maori cultural issues and environmental lobbyists—[ 
Interruption 
] That is what the Minister said. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister will stand withdraw and apologise for that comment. 
Hon Chris Carter 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I ask the member now to start his question again and this time there will be no other comments. Please start again. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Is the Minister aware of the technical advice that this lahar is expected to be double the size of the 1953 lahar that killed 151 people and is he aware that the lahar risk could be removed by just 3 days’ work of a bulldozer costing $68000; if he is aware of those facts why does he allow political correctness over Maori cultural sensitivity and over the environmental movement to stop common sense saving lives and people’s property? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I tell that member that various iwis have various opinions on this matter that are quite different. I also say that that member when he was Minister of Conservation did nothing at all about it. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: In response to the Minister’s claim that I did nothing as Minister I seek leave to table this very comprehensive report dated April 1999 which I asked for as Minister of Conservation. 
Document not tabled. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I also seek leave to table a minute of the Cabinet policy committee on 18 February when the Government rejected the advice of the Ministry of Civil Defence. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Can the Minister confirm that the final decision was not based on consideration for political correctness but that the balance of technical advice was that any measures to reduce the lahar would increase the risk in the long term? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I can confirm that. It is a pity that the former Minister of Conservation does not know did nothing and all he does now is grizzle and moan. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How could the work of removing the 7 metres of ash that was deposited in the 1995 eruption that would stop the lake levels building up and this dangerous lahar possibly increase the risk of a future lahar as claimed by the Deputy Prime Minister who should keep with history? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The engineering advice that this Government has accepted says exactly that by interfering now we will make the future possibility of a lahar greater. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I seek leave to table the Government-commissioned engineering report that says no such thing. In fact it says the opposite. 
Document not tabled.