Mahuta Nanaia: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Mahuta Nanaia: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 23 May 2012. Volume:680;Page:2311. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
7. 
Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour—Hauraki-Waikato) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does she stand by her statement “Under current settings we could have expected 1000 more teachers to be added by 2016”; if so what proportion of those teachers would have been employed in primary schools? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Yes I stand by that statement. It is important to note that it is a net figure. The schooling system and the placement of teachers is a dynamic of roll growth location and the school that parents choose to send their children to over the next 4 years. Had we continued growing teacher numbers with no corresponding lift in student achievement we could have added about a further 1350 primary school teachers offset by a reduction in secondary school teachers of 320 being about the 1000 teachers we have decided not to grow the current workforce of 50000 teachers by. Instead we are investing in quality teaching because we are focused on raising student achievement. It is worth noting that under the new ratios we still expect that there will be an additional 250 primary school teachers. 
Grant Robertson 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a primary question with two parts. The first part I did get some indication of an answer to. It was a very long answer and I really do not know that we got— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I think the member should have listened a little more carefully. The Minister said the 1000 figure was a net figure derived from 1320 from memory fewer primary teachers and 320 more secondary teachers which produced a net of 1000. She has answered exactly the question asked. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The second part of the question which she did not address at all was what proportion of that 1000 figure was primary teachers— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Mathematically what the Minister was saying was the lot. You do not need the Speaker to do the maths. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: Has she read the 2005 study from the State University of New York which states that after 4 years of learning in small classes the likelihood of a student from a low socio-economic background graduating from high school is doubled; and if so did she just choose to ignore this evidence? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: What I have read is that over the past 10 years we have raised teacher numbers by 12.76 percent at the same time— 
Grant Robertson 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question asked whether she had read it and she began her answer by saying “What I have read” and that is not enough. It was a very simple question.  
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I think if we are going to accept that point of order being made by Grant Robertson we would insist that you go back to the hard Standing Orders 
with regard to the way in which questions can be asked. That question sought a matter of fact and if you look through the Standing Orders it sat outside the strict criteria for the asking of questions. It was an obscure piece of reading that the Minister was asked about. Frankly the Minister answered appropriately by saying what she did know. Clearly the question is about her management of the portfolio not her professional reading. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I am not sure it is fair to say what the member’s view was of what the question was about at all. The question was the question. I understand what the member is saying: that some members of the Opposition preface their questions by a whole lot of political opinions before they ask a question at all. When members do that I allow Ministers a lot of licence in answering. But on this occasion I do not think that was the case. To make the matter more clear I invite the Hon Nanaia Mahuta to repeat her question. I just remind Ministers that it is not helpful to start out an answer by saying “What I do know is this” or “What I can tell the member is this” because it usually means they are not going to answer the question. I do not mind them doing that if the question asked has a lot of political opinion prior to the question but I do not think that was the case on this occasion. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: Has she read the 2005 study from the State University of New York which states that after 4 years of learning in small classes the likelihood of a student from a low socio-economic background graduating from high school is doubled; and if so did she just choose to ignore this evidence? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: No I have not read that selective small academic piece but what I have read is all the evidence which tells me that despite a five-fold increase in teachers student achievement has plateaued or declined. That is why we are investing instead in quality teaching to raise student achievement. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: How will she explain to the parents of children who end up in larger classes that their learning will not be negatively impacted by less time with their teacher? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I think it is important to know that although we provide ratios that are the basis for funding formulas of the 13 years that have funding formulas four have gone up seven have gone down and two have remained about the same. Therefore class size in any particular school is determined by the principal who is conscious of the community in which she or he works. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: Will she support parents whose children end up in larger classes to hire after-school tutors for their children if they are not achieving in larger classes? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: We have made a conscious decision to have one or two extra students in a class in order that we can invest in quality teaching. If we do more of what we have done we will get more of what we have and what we want to do is raise student achievement.