Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:642;Page:12429] 
5.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
 to the  
Minister for State Owned Enterprises 
: Does he consider buildings or wholly owned subsidiaries of State-owned enterprises to be taxpayer-owned assets; if not why not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for State Owned Enterprises) 
: 
 I start by thanking the member for the opportunity to contrast the various policies of the National Party on asset sales with the policy of Labour. The substantive answer is “Yes” for wholly owned subsidiaries and as far as buildings are concerned it depends on whether the Crown is the beneficial owner. Lots of buildings in New Zealand are not owned by the taxpayer. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Is it correct that as one of the two shareholding Ministers he recently approved a deal allowing the Airways Corporation of New Zealand to sell its purpose-built Christchurch complex then lease it back off the private sector; if so why did he do that? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes; because it is not a core asset. 
Dave Hereora 
: What reports has he seen on alternative views of ownership of State-owned enterprises? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I have seen quite a number including two from the National Party in this New Zealand Exchange publication. The National Party is in such disarray that its members cannot get together to tell one story in the publication; they tell two stories in that publication rather than one. I tell the members opposite that we understand the difference between core assets of State-owned enterprises and things that are not core. For example a wind farm is a core asset of Meridian Energy but a building is not. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Supplementary question Doug Woolerton. [ 
Interruption 
] I have called Doug Woolerton. Would members please be quiet; otherwise members will be leaving the Chamber. 
R Doug Woolerton 
: Can the Minister confirm that dividends from former State-owned enterprises that were sold in the 1980s and 1990s—not including the ones that the Government has had to buy back because the effect of their sale was disastrous—largely flow offshore ramping up our current account deficit and making other countries rich at our expense? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think it is fair to say that that is generally the case but in the case of some specific assets that have been sold directly to National’s mates that might not necessarily apply. The point I want to make to members opposite is that Government members understand the difference between trading and not trading. National Party members seem to say that Landcorp cannot sell a sheep or Meridian Energy cannot sell a unit of electricity. Clearly that is nonsense. But what we do know is that this Government will never do what the National Government did—and frankly some other Governments did—in the past and that was to sell off assets that should have been retained in the beneficial interests of all New Zealanders. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister explain given that he says a wind farm is a core asset what a geothermal field generating electricity is if it is not a core asset; if it is a core asset why did his party decide to sell the some of the geothermal assets of Mighty River Power to Tuwharetoa— 
Hon Member 
: Who? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I will start again Madam Speaker. If a wind farm is a core asset—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: We will hear this question in silence to get it over with. Come on! I want this question heard in silence so that there is not constant interruption of the member who is trying to put his question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If a wind farm is a core asset what is a geothermal field producing electricity; if it is a core asset why did his Government sell some of Mighty River Power’s geothermal capacity to Ngati Tuwharetoa Geothermal Assets Ltd; and can he explain why it is OK if his party sells State-owned assets but if someone else talks about it it is not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: A number of the electricity companies owned by the State have been involved in joint-venture arrangements with iwi. That will continue; it is one of the ways that the assets of the iwi can be used positively not only for the iwi but for the security of supply of electricity in New Zealand. That is a good thing. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister explain whether the sale of the AgResearch subsidiary AgVax Developments Ltd to a foreign-owned company called Intervet was an example of privatisation of taxpayer assets and was it in his view a “good thing”? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No it was not. That company was a spin-off company one that was not—[ 
Interruption 
] Well there are a number of ignorant people opposite who do not understand that one of the things that our State-owned enterprises and Crown research institutes sometimes do is develop intellectual property into a company and sell it whereas the practice of the National Government was to sell intellectual property at an early stage for very little return. This Government believes that there are occasions when it is worth developing intellectual property to the point where we get real value from it rather than selling it off cheap to one’s mates in the way that Bill English Tony Ryall and Nick Smith did in the past. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The member knows he cannot make that kind of imputation in Parliament. I ask him to withdraw it. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member has asked for a withdrawal of comments that were made in answer to the question. I personally found it very difficult to hear so I cannot assist members. I am afraid members will be leaving the Chamber systematically; I will be simply asking members to leave because of the barracking. Will the member please withdraw. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I withdraw. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Can the Minister confirm that Paraparaumu Airport was sold to mates of National at below its real value? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: That is a matter of record. How much the former Minister of Transport got for his campaign funds for doing so is unclear. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: I take grave exception to that. I want to make a personal explanation. I was the Minister of Transport when Paraparaumu Airport was sold and I received not a cent from anybody for any campaign fund. I want to make that very clear. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I want to make it clear that I made no reflection on that member; Roger Sowry was of course the member involved. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Is it acceptable for a State-owned enterprise with a vital role in New Zealand’s air safety to sell its purpose-built building to a profit-seeking private sector investor without a lease guarantee when according to statements from the Minister’s fellow Ministers these very same factors present insurmountable barriers to any private sector involvement in new roads or other infrastructural assets? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: This Government has never ruled out the involvement of the private sector in the building of roads. The private sector has been involved in the building of roads in New Zealand ever since the Ministry of Works was broken up over 20 years ago. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Can the Minister confirm this afternoon that the Labour Government is perfectly happy with the sale of non-core assets perfectly happy with the sale of spin-off assets perfectly happy with the sale of non-trading assets and perfectly happy with the sale of numerous buildings; in that context can he explain what the extraordinary sale of the South Island national grid under his Government was all about? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes yes no maybe and we did not sell it.