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Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I thank the Hon David Parker for his remarks. Maybe he could take another call because his amendments do not appear to follow logically or to have correct syntax or English. We are struggling to grasp them. If we add to clause 13(2)(a) the amendment he is proposing—“after 1 November 2010” to add “including for Local Councils”—then the sentence does not seem to follow in any logical way. I know that the member has some legal background—certainly more than I do—and he may care to make another amendment that gets the English right and the syntax correct in terms of what he is trying to achieve. As it stands the amendment will not work; it just does not follow. 
Also the Hon David Parker’s second amendment which amends clause 13(b) states “and on any other matter including on any issues relating to community boards”. The difficulty I have with that is I am not sure what clause 13(b) is. Maybe Mr Parker is meaning clause 13(1)(b)? 
Hon David Parker 
: Yes. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Could the Clerk amend it to read clause 13(1)(b) because it is not clear what it amends. For the benefit of the Committee the amendment would mean that the Auckland Transition Agency would “advise the Minister on any matter associated with the reorganisation including in relation to existing or proposed legislation and on any other matter including on any issues relating to community boards”. It is a bit clumsy but basically it is saying that the transition agency should be required to report on any implications for community boards. We can fix that for the member. There is an amendment to clause 13(2)(a) and this amendment is an addition. Am I correct? The amendment to clause 13(2)(a) adds “including for local councils” and this one adds community boards. 
Hon David Parker 
: The order is wrong. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: The order is wrong. So it would go “including for community boards” then “including for local councils”? 
Hon David Parker 
: Yes. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: But then the English would not work. Why would the member not make it one amendment? 
Hon David Parker 
: I put it as two separate amendments. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: But if one gets in the other one does not make sense. 
Hon David Parker 
: “including” and “including”. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Well if the member drafted an amendment that would work for both of them and would replace those two then we could have a look at it. At present they do not work and I think the member appreciates that. 
There is an amendment to clause 13(b). This is where it gets a bit hard. What was the Minister in the previous Government? Was he the Attorney-General? 
Shane Ardern 
: At one stage. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: The former Attorney-General has made an amendment to clause 13(b) but I am sorry to tell him that there is no clause 13(b). I am afraid that that one has to be struck out because there is no clause 13(b) I say to Mr Parker. Does the member accept that? 
Hon David Parker 
: Yes. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: The member accepts that. Maybe the member could have another crack at it. I do apologise because when the member was speaking I was reading the amendment and I was a little confused; I turned to my officials and said: “I don’t think there is a clause 13(b).” and they came back “No there isn’t.” That was why I was confused when the member was talking—because he was talking about nothing. I apologise. It is easy to make a mistake when we get a bit tired. 
I will turn to the Greens. Ms Kedgley has an amendment that requires the Auckland Transition Agency to spend levy moneys. Here is an amendment from Parliament that would require the Auckland Transition Agency to spend money. Of course that money is ratepayers’ money so I am quite interested in this amendment particularly when we are hearing concerns about cost. If the Auckland Transition Agency is going to be spending money I am very interested to find out on what. So I read the amendment further. This is important because we are seeing a lot of inconsistency between what people are saying and what they are proposing for the legislation. We are hearing a great deal of concern about the cost to ratepayers and the cost of the transition particularly from Labour—and it will be interesting to see whether it will vote for this amendment—and from the Greens. Ms Kedgley went to some lengths to complain about it. 
This amendment would have Parliament make the agency spend money raised through the Waste Minimisation Act 2008 “in a manner that enhances the environmental integrity of the Auckland Region.” The difficulty is that the agency only has oversight of the existing local councils. The Greens are not satisfied with the councils’ spending money; no they want the agency to come over the top of that take money and spend it. If the Greens think about it for a moment this is— 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Please take us through it again. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: OK sure. I understand; it is getting late so I will take it slowly. [ 
Interruption 
] They are folding their cards. I will explain it for the benefit of the hardy souls in the Labour caucus. This amendment requires the Auckland Transition Agency to spend levy moneys raised through the Waste Minimisation Act of 2008 “in a manner that enhances the environmental integrity of the Auckland Region.” The difficulty with that is it fails to comprehend the role of the Auckland Transition Agency and indeed the role of the councils. The Auckland Transition Agency only has an oversight role over council decisions so the spending of levies raised through the Waste Minimisation Act— 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I seek your advice as to whether there is any provision in the Standing Orders to prevent a Minister from filibustering his own bill. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: The member knows that that is not a point of order. The member knows that the Minister has unlimited calls. I do not appreciate points of order that seek to interrupt a member’s speech. I want to protect members so that they can have a fair go. I invite the Minister to continue. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Thank you for that. The Labour caucus wants to debate it and we are debating it. 
The Auckland Transition Authority has an oversight role over the councils’ decisions and the spending of money raised through levies is a mechanism for the existing councils to decide. They are democratically elected councils which is one of the points that have been raised throughout the debate tonight. I will explain what we want for the benefit of Jeanette Fitzsimons because I think she will get it. Yes we need a transition agency as was explained by the royal commission to set up the reorganisation but we want the local councils to get on with business as usual and to get on with being councils. Yes we have to have regard to some of the decisions they are making because we must have a relatively smooth transition to the new council but the Auckland Transition Agency is not going to be willy-nilly making spending decisions particularly not on day one. The councils will be making business-as-usual decisions as expected and as set out in statute and the decisions that they make will need to go past and be confirmed by the Auckland Transition Agency but we are not going to have Parliament direct the agency to take that money and spend it in a particular way. Thank you Mr Chairperson.