Carter David: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
Carter David: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
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Hon DAVID CARTER (NZ National) 
: 
 I was quite happy to take a call later but as this is a wide-ranging debate and there is now an opportunity I am happy to speak now. The point I want to start with is something that struck me as I listened to my colleague Dr Paul Hutchison a person for whom I have tremendous respect. The thing that struck me about his contribution is something that I think is fair to say of all members who have made contributions. Some people have very genuine concerns about the effect of smoking on health—both first-hand smoking and second-hand smoking—but Paul Hutchison’s contribution was specifically concerned with the effect that second-hand smoke in pubs might have on in utero babies. The question has to be asked. If we have made progress on pointing out the damage that is caused by alcohol consumption during pregnancy what are those young mums doing in the pubs at that time anyway? 
Hon Damien O'Connor 
: Some may not know they’re pregnant. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: I guess that is true but having found out that they are pregnant which they should have found out after a relatively short period of time—and Damien O’Connor should know the answers—I suggest those people would be better to stay away from the pub environment and not drink or smoke. 
The second thing that struck me during the dinner break was Ron Mark’s suggestion just prior to the dinner break that people go down to the gym and take some exercise. I was amazed by the number of people who actually listened to Ron Mark. The place was packed to the extent that there were no running machines so I went out and had a run down Lambton Quay and Courtenay Place. 
Darren Hughes 
: Did you see Winston? 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: No I did not but that is a good question. When I ran down Lambton Quay I was struck by the large number of people waiting for buses. As we ran past those people a high proportion were smoking and I had to inhale their used smoke. So I want to ask the member promoting the bill Steve Chadwick why my health should be put at risk—or do I not have a right to run down Lambton Quay? One cannot run down Lambton Quay at that time without passing people who are waiting for the bus and smoking heavily. Why are the rights of people working in the hospitality industry of far more importance than mine? I look forward to the member who is promoting the bill answering that question. 
I then proceeded to run down Courtenay Place and was struck by the number of people enjoying a leisurely drink at the end of a day’s work. A very high proportion of those people were smoking. I ask another question of the member promoting this bill. What sort of research has been done on the smoking rates of people who visit hotels? We hear the figure bandied around and I do not doubt that 25 percent of New Zealanders are smokers but I want to know from the member whether the people who use pubs and clubs etc. represent a higher proportion of smokers and whether that fact has been taken into account. 
The third thing I want to know from the member who is promoting the bill is what sort of work has been done on the practicality of implementing this legislation. I accept that it has been driven by people who are idealistic about this crusade to cut down the rate of smoking and the risk of second-hand smoke damage to people’s health but I do not think there has been any work done on the practicality. 
When I interjected earlier I challenged Damien O’Connor to answer what effect this sort of legislation would have on a battling small country pub on the West Coast to which he responded: “It would have no effect at all economically.” 
Dr Lynda Scott 
: Means two things. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: That is right. It means one of two things. Either people will completely ignore the legislation or the smoke police will be standing right outside making sure those people never enter the pub in the first place. If that is the option the industry’s economics will certainly be greatly affected. But I guarantee that the former option will be the one. People on the West Coast will completely ignore this legislation. 
The other thing that struck me over the dinner break was if it were a cold wet night and people were drinking happily in Courtenay Place or wherever else would they all go outside to smoke? What sort of effect would that have on Courtenay Place if a hundred people poured out of bars and pubs— 
Russell Fairbrother 
: They won’t! 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: Russell Fairbrother said they will not. That is exactly right. They will stay and drink in the pubs they will stay and defy the law and if Parliament is silly enough to listen to Sue Kedgley later there will be no culpability on those people at all. But what will happen to the person running the business? Members should answer that question.