SpeechHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence): Thank you Mr Chair. I would like to take another call for New Zealand First. Look it is interesting sitting here and listening to this conversation as it unfolds right now and I guess if there's one thing that it does reinforce and it doesn't matter where the contributions are coming from in the House there is clearly concern around a number of aspects of this bill. New Zealand First made no secret of it. We very publicly—and recently on the black and white—David Seymour: You're still voting for it.Hon RON MARK: Well that's right Mr Seymour because you know ultimately at the end of the day one is charged with the privilege and responsibility of delivering stable coherent capable reliable government and in doing so and as the member knows when he was in a coalition Government at times he had to do things to support the Government that he may not necessarily have 100 percent agreed with. But you do your best as a constructive member of the Government as Mr Seymour did when he was in Government and holding a privileged position to do whatever you can—your caucus does whatever it can—to change.I think the greatest thing that the New Zealand First caucus has achieved is actually getting the independent arms authority now on the table. We would have liked it to have been passed before the House lifted on 6 August but clearly things such as COVID and a range of other things have worked against us and we are determined and we have a commitment from Labour—I'm looking for the same commitment from National—that post-formation of a Government we will continue with a pledge that the Labour caucus has given us at this point in time and given us absolutely faithfully and the Minister has repeated in his opening comments that we will establish this independent arms authority.The comments that have been made and the questions that have been asked right now by the Hon Nick Smith and a number of others I have to say are fair questions aren't they? They're fair questions. And it does raise this question overall about the level of confidence and competence that the Police have demonstrated over a period of time in the administration of good firearms legislation and about their ability. And one of the submissions that kept reappearing and reappearing—and I went back through the submissions Mr Hudson—was people's concern about the ability of the police to interpret the Act as they saw appropriate and implement it the way they saw appropriate and adjust the regulations through the Regulations Review Committee which actually the Opposition played a part in as well by the way as they saw appropriate and to make changes.Now all of this is leading to—and this debate today is reaffirming that there has been an undermining of confidence now on the part of firearms owners in the police's ability to do this job to the point that you now actually face down the line non-compliance issues through people just simply not having confidence. We cannot go forward as a nation with firearms legislation and with a situation between police as the enforcers and actually the people who help write the legislation and advise the Minister when things are in the state that they currently are in for the firearms owners. So that reinforces a position that New Zealand First had to talk about going back to what Justice Thorp originally offered up in 1997. And we think actually on balance he was right. Do police necessarily want to go with that? Probably not. Do police think they're capable of carrying on administering the law? They probably do. But actually that's not the point. This House decides and Labour has agreed and I thank them for that agreement.Brett Hudson: Put it in the bill.Hon RON MARK: Well that's a good question Mr Hudson. So it isn't in the bill. And it would've been in the bill but we don't have it in the bill but what I have is an iron-clad pledge and a promise that we will attack that legislation as soon as we get back.But my message to Mr Hudson and to others who want to criticise New Zealand First is: fine but don't give us 12.7 percent when the Council of Licensed Firearms Owners conducted a survey of who in the firearms fraternity actually voted for New Zealand First—12.7 percent; 12.7 percent. So nine MPs and four Cabinet Ministers are expected to win their way on that. Well it doesn't work that way. But let's see what we get.The campaign issue will be around sporting shooters and their ability—David Seymour: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I'm really eager to get on to debating the amendments proposed in the parts of this bill. I can't see how voter support in certain organisations and what the campaign of the election is are relevant to parts of this bill. Now I don't mind if this debate goes on all morning so long as I get to debate the actual amendments and the parts of the bill. If he wants to keep on going on that way we'll have the political debate in the committee but I just want your assurance we're going to get to the actual content that the committee is supposed to be debating.Hon RON MARK: Mr Chairperson—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): No I'll make a ruling thank you. There are aspects of what the member has said that are absolutely correct. I have been listening very carefully to the contribution and I have to say relevance is becoming an issue on both sides. I gave the—David Seymour: Not in the end—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Let me finish. I gave the speaker who spoke before the Hon Ron Mark Hamish Walker some encouragement around that. I thought the member the Hon Ron Mark's contribution has mostly been in order but it's a difficult situation when you're in the Chair of balancing out the entirety of the member's contribution where at the end of it you might think Well that was 60 percent relevant." etc. So it's really up to this committee: the committee has it in its hands. The member has 49 seconds remaining and he does actually have the ability to bring what he has said thus far in order.Hon RON MARK: Thank you Mr Chair. So the question around the firearms registration system which has been hotly debated here and in the amendments to the Act—it's fair to say that in the past we have argued against such a thing. And other members on that side of the House have voted in favour of such a registration system. The point is we are now putting into this legislation a mechanism that will delay the implementation of that registration for three years and there will be a post-implementation review. That post-implementation review New Zealand First hopes—Brett Hudson: So we waste the money and then say it didn't work.Hon RON MARK: —well we'll insist—will look at all of the arguments that have been put here tonight and look at the original objectives laid out by the police and espoused by the Minister—[Time expired]"