1. Question No. 1—Foreign AffairsHon EUGENIE SAGE (Green) to the Minister of Foreign AffairsORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Foreign Affairs1. Hon EUGENIE SAGE (Green) to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Has she taken advice to Cabinet regarding an international moratorium on seabed mining; if so what did the advice say?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Foreign Affairs): I've not taken advice to Cabinet regarding the specific issue of an international moratorium on deep-sea mining in areas beyond national jurisdiction. However protecting and preserving the marine environment is a key objective for Aotearoa New Zealand and I've engaged closely on this issue with ministerial colleagues including the Ministers of oceans and fisheries conservation and the environment. Our current focus is engaging activity and in good faith in the International Seabed Authority (ISA) process to ensure the effective protection of the marine environment. To that end we've been vocal in our calls for no deep-sea mining to proceed without robust environmental protections. At the most recent ISA negotiations in March 2022 New Zealand worked with Chile and Costa Rica to advance a significant proposal to improve environmental decision-making and environmental standards in the ISA regulations.Hon Eugenie Sage: Has the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade reviewed New Zealand's international position on seabed mining since Nauru triggered the two-year rule to fast track development of seabed mining and exploitation regulations; if not why not?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Thank you for the question. Yes a full review of New Zealand's approach was last conducted in 2021 following Nauru's triggering of the two-year rule. New Zealand has stepped up its approach to the International Seabed Authority mining code as negotiations have entered this critical phase. We've been more proactive in advocating for high standards and communicating our bottom lines. This position includes being explicit that New Zealand will vote against any mining code that does not provide the sufficiently high environmental standards as required by article 145 of the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea. If the ISA adopts a provisional mining code that does not meet such standards or fails to adopt the code before the deadline we'll be advocating for no seabed mining applications to be approved by the ISA until a final code is approved by the assembly.Hon Eugenie Sage: Does the Minister agree with recent research published in Marine Policy showing that there are extensive gaps in scientific knowledge about deep-sea life which may take decades to adequately address; if so will New Zealand support a precautionary moratorium in line with the Minister's commitment to high standards of environmental protection?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Thank you for the question. New Zealand accepts that there are gaps in scientific knowledge relating to deep seabed mining and the impacts of it. At this moment we're proactively supporting work in the Pacific to improve our scientific understanding of the impacts of deep-sea mining with a particular focus on marine ecosystems habitats and their species. It is clear that deep-sea mining has the potential to cause significant harm to the deep seabed but our limited knowledge of the deep seabed means it's hard to quantify that harm. That's why New Zealand is advocating for a precautionary approach in the negotiations taking place at ISA with a view to ensuring the highest standards of environmental protection. If those high standards mean that deep-sea mining cannot currently take place then so be it.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer (remote): Why did the Government abstain from voting in support of the deep seabed mining moratorium at the International Union for Conservation of Nature World Conservation Congress last year if you don't know that it's good for the nation?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: To clarify the points that I've made: there is a lack of scientific information to properly evidence the impacts of deep seabed mining on the seafloor. That is the position New Zealand is taking. We are advocating for high environmental standards through the ISA and we'll continue to do that.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: The courts of this country have ruled against this activity for the mere fact that there isn't enough knowledge; if that's the case then why not have a full moratorium until you have more knowledge? Surely precautionary—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member's got about three questions in there; it's probably out of order but I don't think it's worth going back. There's enough there for the Minister to answer.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Thank you Mr Speaker. Without conflating a domestic jurisdiction with an international jurisdiction can I say that the Government has been entirely consistent in its advocacy for pushing for higher environmental standards at the ISA to enable New Zealand to advocate for the protection and preservation of the marine environment. This standard would need to be respected by all States and will influence decisions in those marine areas beyond national jurisdiction.Teanau Tuiono (remote): What is her response to the declaration by the Pacific Parliamentarians' Alliance on Deep Sea Mining launched today at the Our Ocean conference in Palau with its call for a moratorium on deep-sea mining?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: We've made clear our views on deep-sea mining and the risks it poses to the Pacific. We're supporting scientific work in the Pacific as well. At the moment our focus is working so that deep-sea mining does not take place unless we can ensure the protection of our ocean. Ultimately we respect the right of each nation to determine its own position and kaitiakitanga responsibilities. I understand that there are a range of views on deep-sea mining in the Pacific and I welcome the opportunity to engage with our Pacific neighbours on this issue. The Government is actively considering how it can better engage with Pacific countries on deep-sea mining—including through a potential focus on deep-sea science so that we can all better understand how to protect our Pacific Ocean.Teanau Tuiono: Does she agree with the former Governor-General of Tuvalu Sir Iakoba Italeli that Our ocean assets are critical and can generate national revenue but the legacy of our oceans and their health is more important. Deep sea mining must be held to a higher standard to protect our Commonwealth." and if not why not?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I certainly agree with the views that state that deep-sea mining has an impact on our ocean floor and that participating in the initiatives that show a science-evidence base to support higher environmental standards is the approach that the New Zealand Government is taking in relation to its engagement with the ISA in setting a code.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Will she join with tangata whenua and Pasifika leaders who are asking and strongly campaigning to ban seabed mining; if not why not?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: There are a range of views that have been reflected across the Pacific and as I've already stated we will certainly work in the Pacific to ensure that there is that science-based information that can help the Pacific to protect its marine environment that we will continue to advocate for high environmental standards at the ISA and that we will continue to advocate for the protection and preservation of our marine environment.Hon Eugenie Sage: Is it still New Zealand's position that "Restoration or rehabilitation of the seafloor and associated fauna is unlikely to be feasible in many instances" as New Zealand told the International Seabed Authority in 2015; if not why not?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Yes this is still New Zealand's position on the current state of scientific understanding that recovery rates of the seafloor and associated fauna are likely to be very long and the solution sits across a number of Governments for years to come.Hon Eugenie Sage: Is she concerned that the ISA's fast-tracked process to finalise regulations to allow seabed mining by July next year could result in an assessment process that does not protect the marine environment; if so will the Minister advise Cabinet to support an international moratorium on seabed mining on the high seas?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Our current focus is engaging actively and in good faith in the ISA processes to ensure the effective protection of the marine environment. We are pleased that the ISA —as advocated for by New Zealand—has adopted a hybrid-meeting approach; this does help with further engagement and has enabled more participation in this very serious issue. As negotiations at the ISA proceed New Zealand's approach to deep-sea mining in areas beyond national jurisdiction remains under active review. There is a plan to conduct a full review engaging all relevant Ministers following the next ISA negotiating session in July and this will inform our position moving forward."