Chauvel Charles: General Debate 
Chauvel Charles: General Debate 
[Volume:656;Page:5249] 
CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) 
: 
 We heard an excellent speech earlier from my friend and colleague Annette King about the bullying tactics of one of the Ministers in this Government. What a shame that after only 8 months of this administration being in office we are starting to see this sort of behaviour manifest itself! We also see it elsewhere and I refer to the justice sector. A report has come in today from the New Zealand Press Association about the behaviour of an MP who is a member of one of the Government’s confidence and supply parties—the ACT Party. When a select committee was hearing submissions in Auckland today Mr David Garrett told a number of prison officers who had the temerity to criticise the way in which the Auckland Central Remand Prison had been run under private contract by GEO Group Inc. between 2000 and 2005: “You say that you don’t want to go back to working in this environment—to the private [sector]. You’d be aware that given your submission here you wouldn’t get offered a job anyway would you?”. 
So here we go! More threatening behaviour to members of the public in the justice sector! No one on the Government side of the House worries about the rule of law. The members threaten people who exercise their democratic right to give evidence at a select committee. They say: “Let’s tell them they had better watch out for saying what they think and they believe because that will threaten their ability to get a job in the private sector if that is the way the contract goes at Auckland Prison.” That is shameful behaviour. But unfortunately as Annette King said it is consistent with what we have seen from Paula Bennett in the last couple of days. And the behaviour continues. Only a week or two ago we saw the Minister of Justice telling the Chief Justice the head of the judiciary that she had no right to speak out in a public debate on matters of penal policy. 
Hon Member 
: And to respect the constitution! 
CHARLES CHAUVEL 
: Somebody has just spoken about the constitution. I think he must have slept through constitutional law. That member was recently in England at the taxpayers’ expense and while he was in England he would have heard the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales making much more outspoken statements than those made by our Chief Justice. If he listened he would know that it is a convention and in fact a duty for members of the judiciary including the head of the judiciary to speak out on matters of important public policy in the justice sector. 
The reason it is shameful for the Minister of Justice to dress her down is this—[ 
Interruption 
] I will explain it to Mr Quinn because he does not understand the rule of law and one of the things he needs to do in this House is start to get a grip on it. The reason it is shameful is that the Minister has overall responsibility for the funding of the justice sector. The judiciary has no spending power. I tell Mr Quinn and other members opposite that it is a chilling thing indeed to see the Minister of Justice publicly criticise and bully the head of the judiciary. He implied that she has no right to speak out on penal policy. It is chilling because he holds the purse strings and in the end the judges know that if they offend the Minister of Justice then all sorts of things like court security like the facilities enjoyed by the judges like their research capability—everything funded by the executive at the moment—can be put at risk because the judges have the temerity to speak out and say they might not agree with the thrust of Government policy. 
Never mind that Government policy in the penal area is manifestly failing; never mind that the judges are the ones at the coalface sentencing people every day sentencing the same people all the time every day because of the failures in our penal system—oh no never mind the Minister of Justice says to the Chief Justice that judges should not dare to speak out! 
We saw this bullying with Judith Collins and Barry Matthews earlier in the Government’s term. Then we saw it with Nick Smith and the Accident Compensation Corporation and Tony Ryall and Richard Thomson. It is a sad sight. Now we are seeing it with Paula Bennett and the poor old beneficiaries who dared to speak out because they do not agree that the training incentive allowance should be curtailed. Their private details have been paraded in the public domain. It is Muldoonism. The ghost is walking and New Zealanders should be afraid—very very afraid—that this is the behaviour we face from this Government.