Mitchell MarkHon MARK MITCHELL (National—Whangaparāoa): Thank you Madam Speaker. Isn't it funny that the Minister rolls out—and I've heard this phrase used many many times before and I enjoyed it when I had the justice portfolio and I marked off the Minister. I want to acknowledge him because he is bringing this bill to the House because he does have a genuine desire without a doubt like we all do to make young people and people that use drugs—if they are going to use them let's try to make it as safe as possible. I get that. But he has to come out with a statement like you know You're going to hear from the National Party the same old moralistic tough on crime - type rhetoric." Well the last time I heard that was when we were debating the huge increase in gang numbers in this country about three years ago. And we got told the same thing—the "moralistic National Party tough on crime. Boring! Rolling out the same old story." Hon Andrew Little: I wasn't referring to that member.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Well actually if we fast forward to today we've got a massive problem with gang numbers and firearm violence on the streets so maybe it'd be a good idea just sometimes to listen to this side of the House. We've actually given you a lot of guidance and pointed you in the right direction but you never seem to be very open to actually taking their advice. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Not the Speaker. Order! Not the Speaker. The member will not bring the Speaker into the debate.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Sorry you're right. Sorry Madam Speaker. So look I haven't sat on the committee that's been dealing with this bill the Drug and Substance Checking Legislation Bill (No 2) but I was aware of it. Certainly I hold a very privileged position of being the MP for Whangaparāoa and what that means is that I'm heavily involved in my community. Very proud to be the patron of our local surf club the Ōrewa Surf Club involved in the training of some of our youth there and my kids of course patrol and compete. So I get to talk to a lot of young people and I'll tell you one event that the young people of my electorate love going to and that's Rhythm and Vines—very very popular with them. Hon Michael Woodhouse: I wonder if it's going to happen this year.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Yeah well that's right. There's not a high level of confidence amongst them that it will because they've figured out very quickly—Mr Woodhouse brings up a very good point. They've figured out very quickly that this Government's let them down and they're not going to get to the Rhythm and Vines.But the feedback that I get from them around this is because they rolled this out—he's right. They rolled this out last year and it was at Rhythm and Vines. And the one thing that I would have liked to have heard from the Minister is some science and some data and some stats around just how successful this policy was last year because that is lacking in this debate. When you lean back into it and you say "Well we're going to roll this out because scientifically the data shows that it's going to reduce harm and it's going to stop deaths." then you've got to be able to come to this House and back it up. The Government has failed to do that.But the feedback from the young people was this: you know we sort of come to this House and we've got phrases that we use we're very parliamentary and we kind of operate and live in our own bubble down here. That's important. We pay a lot of attention to the detail around legislation. That's important; that's our job. But actually we're legislating here for a bunch of people that—are we actually talking to them? Are we getting their feedback? Because I can tell you right now the feedback from the young people in my electorate is quite simply this on the face of it: "Oh yeah you know doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's a bit of a laugh." They think that the pollies are endorsing the use of party pills and drugs. So you know that sort of diminishes the seriousness around it and the fact that actually they're breaking the law and that we don't want them using drugs we don't want them taking drugs. Kieran McAnulty was in the House and I thought he made a very good contribution around drugs a couple of weeks ago where he was very clear. He got up and he said "I have not taken drugs I will not take drugs and I don't want my friends taking drugs because I know the harm that they do." He was right and he took a principled stand on that. So what we should be saying in this House is exactly the same thing. The signal that we should be sending from this Parliament and this House is exactly that message: you shouldn't be taking drugs your friends shouldn't be taking drugs—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! Could that member put their mask back on thank you.Hon MARK MITCHELL: And that should be a very clear and succinct message that comes from this House. Instead we're sending a confused and a muddled message. And by the way this legislation from what I've read it's confused and it's muddled. The Minister says that he wants to prevent harm that we want to stop young people from taking drugs when they don't know what's in them. Well let me first of all be very clear. MDMA whether or not there's a bit of rat poison in there or not is a dangerous harmful drug that can kill right? So that's where we're starting from. But then what they do and correct me if I'm wrong; the next speaker can stand up and correct me. Like I said to you I admit I'm not completely across the detail of this bill. Correct me if I'm wrong: a young person or any person actually attending Rhythm and Vines—by the way I don't know how you de-conflict the fact that the promoters and the runners of Rhythm and Vines say that this is a drug-free concert or event and then you have people testing drugs for people that are attending. I'm not sure how you de-conflict that.But the people come up they hand their drugs over they get tested. They may have rat poison in them. Rat poison can be harmful I'm sure especially in large quantities. But the MDMA present in there is even more harmful. And so what do they do? They don't take them off them Minister because if you want to stop the harm at that point you should confiscate the drugs. Would that be right? If we're being logical about this and you want to legislate for it and you want to do it—if you want to prevent harm to those people then we should take the drugs off them. We should say "These are harmful. You could die. You could overdose. We're going to take them off you." What do we do? We give them back to the people. And do you know what? There was a joke down at Rhythm and Vines amongst the young people the ones that we're trying to target they were laughing and joking about it that the people that could be bothered queuing—because apparently there were big queues because they were curious. There was a curiosity factor. They wanted to know what they'd paid for what was in it. But they were all comparing. They were excited. They wanted to see what the additives were and what was there. The reason why the Minister hasn't stood up and given us any data or science on how effective it's been is because they're taking the pills back. They're using them. Hon Andrew Little: Three-quarters changed their conduct.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Three-quarters changed their conduct.Hon Andrew Little: Changed their behaviour. Hon MARK MITCHELL: Well I'd like to see the data. I'd like to see the data sitting behind that Minister.Simeon Brown: Seventy percent said they'd still take it.Hon MARK MITCHELL: That's right and that's what's happening Minister. What you guys have inadvertently done is number one you've sent a message out to young people and concert-goers and festival-goers that actually the Parliament thinks that it's OK. And the reason why they see that young people see that is because we're putting laws in place that allow them to test their drugs. So they think the pollies—they think we're saying and the leaders of the country are saying "Actually there's a soft endorsement for that. You take your drugs. We'll test them. Go into the festival and you can take them." Then they're arriving to have these drugs tested because we're trying to prevent the harm and then getting them tested because they're curious—predominately curious to know what's in them—and then they're taking the pills back and they're going into the festival and they're using them. So Minister stand up and show us. I can tell you one thing: the feedback that I got and I had lots—I had my nephews and nieces I had my kids I had guys' kids from the first XV that I help coach I had kids from the Ōrewa Surf Club all right through my electorate they all descended on the festivals whether it be up in Mangawhai or down in Gisborne. All of them—all of them—were not talking about the fact that this measure had stopped young people taking drugs or it had flagged up how dangerous they were and they shouldn't be using them and they shouldn't be buying them. It didn't have that impact at all Minister. In fact what they were talking about is the deaths and the kids that disappeared and couldn't be found because of the drug use and the increased levels of harm and violence because of drug use. If we want to get serious about it as a Parliament if we want to try and stop that—I agree with you Minister education is a big part of it—actually what we should be doing as a Parliament is we should be sending a very clear and succinct message in saying "These drugs are illegal they are harmful they will kill and you should not be taking them." Mr McAnulty in a very powerful speech a few weeks ago said "I will not take them. I do not want my friends taking them. They kill. They're harmful. They hurt." And if we stand—Kieran McAnulty: Let's test them.Hon MARK MITCHELL: So let's test them. For what point Mr McAnulty? Stand up and take a call and give me the data give me the evidence and show me because the feedback that I've had is that young people are laughing at it. They're not bothering queuing. If they are they're curious. They want to see what's in their drugs. That's great. They're taking them back. They're going into the concerts they're having a bit of a laugh about it—"Mine's got … "—and they're using the pills. So if you're genuine about stopping harm then you should be actually at that point taking the pills off them. Kieran McAnulty: Sure and it's their fault then is it?Hon MARK MITCHELL: Answer me one question. Why are they giving them back? Kieran McAnulty: Will the member yield?Hon MARK MITCHELL: Why are they getting them back? Kieran McAnulty: Will the member yield and I'll ask a question.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Well—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! [Interruption] Order! Order! With apologies to the member—Hon MARK MITCHELL: Take a call—sorry Madam Speaker.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): This is a—[Interruption] No. This is a robust debate but I would ask members if they wish to make a point of order or take a call they rise to their feet and seek one. This across the House exchange is not benefiting the quality of this debate at all. Kieran McAnulty: Point of order. I 100 percent agree with you. However in this particular instance I was asking the member if he would yield which is allowed in the Standing Orders. I can't do that on my feet Madam Speaker.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): OK thank you. Thank you for that.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Thank you Madam Speaker. I would have been happy to yield but sadly I've come to the end of my time. But this is bad legislation. It shouldn't have been brought into the House and we oppose it."