McClay Todd; Nash StuartHon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua): Thank you Madam Chair. Minister you said earlier around the Strategic Tourism Assets Protection Programme (STAPP) that you didn't want to talk too much because the Auditor-General is investigating and that you had a no-regrets policy your Government when it came to funding and that people were asked to apply and some would be above the line or below the line. But isn't the challenge isn't the concern from the sector that so many of these businesses weren't treated fairly? It's one thing to say we just had to get money out of the door but if you take an example of where the Auditor-General is investigating which is the Government's funding of up to $10 million to AJ Hackett at the time to save 20 jobs it was before the fund had been released before the criteria was there. So when it comes to taxpayers' money how can the taxpayer and those in the tourism sector who have missed out have any faith in the Government's ability to continue to deliver funding to help them until international visitors come back if actually some have had preferential treatment in as far as they got funding before anybody else even knew they could apply?Secondly Minister you've just announced over the weekend—or at the end of last week—$200 million to help five destinations in the South Island and others more generally. That's got to be welcomed because the Opposition was calling for this some time ago. But I ask you why you visited Franz Josef early this year some months ago and said actually at that time these businesses that are international facing would have to visit their bank manager their accountant or close—because now you've turned up with a package we were advocating for and they were asking for but at some months later. So my question to you Minister is: what do you say to the businesses that actually took you at your word two or three months ago when you said there wasn't more money there wasn't support and if they couldn't pivot it was virtually tough luck? Not your words but that's what they heard. And now you've fronted up with something which will be helpful for them it will keep businesses open but is it just too little too late? And is this another example of a no-regrets policy?Hon STUART NASH (Minister of Tourism): Thank you. The first thing I will say is I delivered a speech in Queenstown in March where I actually did outline that there was a package coming and I outlined in broad themes what that package would look like but I didn't give the details in that March package.In terms of what I said to the businesses in Franz Josef—and I actually said it on national TV to tourism businesses up and down the country—is that if they were international-facing businesses or predominantly based on international tourism and they hadn't managed to pivot in a way that would allow them to take advantage of the increase in New Zealand tourists then they need to have some hard conversations with their bank managers with their customers with their directors and with their staff. The reason I said that is I did not think that it created any value for me whatsoever to go out there and say Just hold on. Hold on. The borders are going to open next month." or "We're not too sure." and give a whole lot of people false hope. I thought what was needed at the time—and I don't resile from this and I still believe this—is that there is no point in going out there and giving people false hope and allowing or providing them with perhaps some rhetoric that would mean that they would keep their businesses open when in fact that wasn't the case. They needed to make—and this just isn't tourism businesses; this is businesses up and down the country that actually faced really hard times and believe me as the Minister for Small Business I have got a number of these letters. There are a lot of businessmen and businesswomen up and down this country that are doing it hard. I think giving them false hope would have been the wrong thing to do. But that's why in March I did signal that there was a package coming and the broad themes around that. But if you have a look at what was announced last Thursday last week you know there's a lot of stuff there not just for those five regions that have an over 50 percent reliance on international tourists but there was also stuff in there for tourism operators up and down the country. The thing that we didn't want to do—when the package was announced on Thursday—was apart from the inbound tourism operators specifically signal out a business. That's why for example we've provided another $10 million or $5000 per business to take up any form of business advice. That's why we provided another $5000 per business or $10 million overall to allow these businesses to take advantage of that advice if in fact the original $5000 didn't give them enough money or enough leeway to do that because one of the criticisms I had heard was "We've had this advice. It's been really good but I haven't got the money to implement it." So we didn't want to do that. The other thing that I must acknowledge and the thing that I've pushed really hard on and not only in the tourism sector but also in my small business portfolio is I acknowledge that these are really really tough times for some men and women in the sector. You know pre-COVID actually Xero did some work around mental health and businesses and what they found is 40 percent of small business owner-operators said that running a small business impacted upon their mental health. And that was in the good times. We know that for a lot tourism operators this has had a detrimental effect on their health and wellbeing. It's the reason why we put a substantial sum of money in there. So if people are under stress under undue stress and they're really feeling it then they can get professional help. I think that's really important and I'm pretty proud of that initiative."