8. Police—Deputy Commissioner of Police Inquiry into the Appointment ProcessHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader—National) to the Prime MinisterPolice—Deputy Commissioner of Police Inquiry into the Appointment Process8. Hon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader—National) to the Prime Minister: Does her Government expect high standards from all Government departments and Ministers?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes.Hon Paula Bennett: If there are women in the police or the Public Service who have been bullied does she have confidence that they can safely come forward speak up and not have their careers detrimentally affected?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I am sure the member on the other side of the House would hope issues of bullying should not be political ones. I would hope that regardless of who is in charge at any given time we have an environment and a culture where women and indeed any employees feel safe and able to raise issues of concern. And if it is brought to the attention of the Government of the day that that hasn't happened on their watch we would expect as we have set out for that to be resolved by those departments.Hon Paula Bennett: In light of that answer is she concerned that the culture currently within police because of the fiasco around the appointment of Wally Haumaha—that there may be women who do not feel safe in coming forward?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would want to make sure that we have created an environment where those individuals if indeed that is the case are able to come forward. Of course we have instigated an inquiry into the process. The Inquiries Act means that the person who we've appointed Mary Scholtens QC is able to make sure that the name or particulars of anyone that is part of that inquiry is able to be withheld or protected. Those protections exist.Chris Bishop: Does she have confidence in Deputy Police Commissioner Wally Haumaha in light of new allegations of Mr Haumaha contacting witnesses allegations which aren't covered by the already established inquiry into the appointment process?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I've said in this House previously we've undertaken an inquiry so that we can ensure that we're applying the principles of natural justice. This is a statutory appointment though and so any question of issues like standing down or gardening leave those because of constabulary independence are matters for the Commissioner of Police.Chris Bishop: Does she have confidence in her Government's professional independence from Mr Haumaha when her police Minister gives him a shout-out in his workout videos her Deputy Prime Minister attended a celebration on a marae for his appointment as assistant commissioner her foreign affairs under-secretary has whānau links to him and he was previously announced as a candidate for New Zealand First?SPEAKER: Order! Sorry I am going to go back to that question and not require but ask the member to think very carefully about rewording it. We have had a tradition in this House wherever possible of not including the actions of family members—certainly within question time. I'd ask the member to reflect on his question and if he agrees with me that that is unhealthy to rephrase it.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Surely we have to have some accuracy in the questioning in this House. Mr Bishop began by talking about what in effect is an allegation of witness tampering. So the real issue sir for you to judge is: who is this witness who is being tampered that he talked about? The fact is the person is not a witness. The person may be a complainant and there's a huge difference. He's putting the two together quite naively and mistakenly and getting away with it in the House when he should be stopped.SPEAKER: Order! Order! I think if we had the degree of exactitude that the Deputy Prime Minister is advocating we'd have quite a few members on both sides of the House who wouldn't be able to answer or ask a single question. Mr Bishop—going back to where we were at.Chris Bishop: Did the panel convened by the State Services Commission to interview the short-listed candidates for the job of the Deputy Commissioner of Police recommend that Mr Haumaha be the preferred candidate for the job?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I'm not going to get into elements of an issue that is now being independently assessed by an independent inquirer.Hon Paula Bennett: When the Prime Minister just previously said as she did yesterday that actually he cannot be either stood down or on gardening leave because it would be the decision of the commissioner and that she can't do it is she aware that under section 13 of the Policing Act the deputy commissioner's role is a statutory appointment that holds office at the pleasure of the Governor-General on the advice of her the Prime Minister and that she has the power to act?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That includes them acting in that role of employment. What the member was asking about was whether I had the ability to stand someone down when there had been no formal process and we're undertaking an inquiry to ensure natural justice provisions apply because the threshold test here is incredibly high. If the member is asking about gardening leave or temporary stand downs that threshold of course is very different and that is employment matter for the Commissioner of Police.Hon Shane Jones: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I raise an issue that is troubling a number of us on this side of the House: the regularity with which those of us who enjoy Māori ancestry—and I direct your attention to Speakers' rulings 39/4-5. I accept in the roundhouse of politics it is tough but I am particularly irked by the allegation that Mr Bishop made enjoying private briefings from dissolute elements in the police force that he has labelled those of us essentially by talking about Fletcher Tabuteau and Winston Peters as somehow not passing the test of parliamentary probity. And I'd invite you to reflect on it because it will lead to a substantial bout of disorder from the House. Now I'm not suggesting that Mr Bishop is anti-Māori and quite frankly I don't care if he is but it is an important principle with the number of Māori in the House—whether they're urban Māori or broader traditional Māori—that you contemplate that situation because we're not going to put up with it for one more day.Hon Paula Bennett: As one of those Māori there is actually also a convention that we express our conflicts of interest for our whānau and particularly when we are looking at making statutory appointments and this side of the House has a right to question that.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well yes I would have made the same point that the Hon Paula Bennett has made because what Mr Jones is effectively doing is saying that if there is a statutory appointment that involves someone who identifies as being a Māori New Zealander then that process can't be questioned and nor can anything that would make the suitability of that person appropriate for that. But further than that sir you sat there while Mr Jones referred to another member of this House effectively as having some racial bias and that's a completely unacceptable thing for him to do.Rt Hon Winston Peters: The allegation that someone is a cousin and therefore is biased in the choice of someone in a governmental job is so demonstrably false when the person doesn't go to the lengths to describe how far removed that relationship might be. If he were Scottish or Māori he might understand that this would include 7500 people. But no such attempt is made. It's the insinuation that because that relationship distant though it might be nevertheless corrupts the member's mind in being impartial—and that's unfair.SPEAKER: I am in a position to rule. Members may have forgotten that I intervened on Mr Bishop's question and asked him to reword it because I thought the tone of it was not consistent with the way that we have gone as a country over the last number of decades. He reflected on that and despite the opportunity decided not to repeat the question in that form and I want to thank him for that.There are a lot of elements of judgment in this. I of course don't want to indicate that people cannot be questioned where there are seen to be untoward influences and of course that is the case but what I did indicate was that I thought it was particularly important where family matters are being brought into account that people are either very specific or very careful and not general in allegations.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Precedents in rulings in this House are very important because they do guide the House. I'd ask that you have a look back through I think the mid-part of 2015 when a then prominent member of the Opposition now a very very prominent member of this House was asking questions of a Minister of the then Government that related directly to a family member. Those questions were allowed they stood and they went on for quite some days. When you've gone back over those transcripts and perhaps reflected on the wisdom of the course of action taken by the prominent Opposition member now a very prominent member of Parliament could you perhaps bring down a ruling that brings all of these things together. I think the general allegation made against the Parliament by Mr Jones today that it is somehow racially selective to bring up an issue that relates to the appointment of a person who is of New Zealand Māori descent is a very very backward step for this Parliament.SPEAKER: I don't feel any need to bring back a considered ruling on it. I think the matter is pretty clear. Speaker's ruling 41/1 makes it clear that people should avoid referring to MPs families in their private capacities. It is all right to refer to family members who have official roles and that is a ruling of long standing. It is also all right where there is a clear intersection of the public business of an MP and a Minister and the actions of a family member and that is an area of longstanding ruling where there is a suggestion of inappropriate behaviour on the part of a Minister in favour of a family member—that is the subject of questioning in the House and will always continue to be.Hon Shane Jones: Speaking to the point of order.SPEAKER: Well is the member going to add anything to it?Hon Shane Jones: Yes I am. The point which needs to be made—and thank you very much for that clarification—is that the gentleman to my left has had no role in the statutory appointing of the said person Mr Haumaha. So any attempt to further taint a member of Māori descent who is not connected to the statutory process needs your protection.SPEAKER: Thank you Mr Jones for stating the obvious.