Delahunty Catherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Delahunty Catherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 08 February 2012. Volume:677;Page:183. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
12. 
CATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Will she rule out implementing Treasury’s advice to increase class sizes in schools? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Tena koe. No because Treasury’s independent observation was actually that “Student achievement can be raised by improving the quality of teaching … Increasing student/teacher ratios and consolidation of the school network can free up funding that could be used to support initiatives to enhance the quality of teaching”. 
Catherine Delahunty 
: Have any parents asked for an increase in class sizes? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: Not of me. 
Catherine Delahunty 
: Does she agree with Massey University professor of education John O’Neill that class size matters most for socioeconomically disadvantaged children—the very group the Government said it is most concerned about? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I would refer him and the member to Professor John Hattie who said we need to direct attention at higher-quality teaching—exactly what we are considering. 
Catherine Delahunty 
: Will charter schools have a defined class size determined by the Ministry of Education? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: We are waiting on the establishment of a working group which will consider that and all other features. 
Catherine Delahunty 
: Does the Minister’s answer mean that the private sector led by Catherine Isaac  will decide critical educational issues such as class size for charter schools? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: My answer means exactly what it said which is that a working group will canvass that range of features. 
Chris Hipkins 
: In light of her answer to the substantive question in which she quoted Treasury’s report is she confirming that school rationalisation is back on the agenda and that the National Government intends to close more schools? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: In the years 2003-08 over 200 schools were closed. In the years 2009-12 49 schools have been closed. Really what that reflects is that the education sector is a dynamic one and its responsiveness should be to the needs of the learner the best evidence and the parameters of the Budget. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Those were very interesting numbers. However they do not actually address the question that I asked as to whether the Government intended to adopt Treasury’s advice and close more schools. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am not sure that is exactly the question the member asked. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.  
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will hear the honourable member further. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I referred to the Minister’s answer to the substantive question in which she quoted the Treasury advice which was to close more schools. I asked her in my original question whether in fact that was the Government’s intention—whether school rationalisation was back on the agenda and the National Government intended to close more schools. She gave me some numbers for what has— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister actually gave some numbers indeed and went on to say that education is a dynamic matter and that these things change. Although that may not have been exactly the answer the member wanted I think it was a reasonable answer to the question because clearly the closure of schools is not being ruled out. The Minister pointed out that schools have closed during the last 12 years. A number of schools have closed and she did not rule out that happening in the future. Although that may not have been exactly the answer the member wanted I think it was an answer to the question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Having criticised you for giving a commentary earlier I want to thank you for that one. It means that our understanding is enhanced. 
Catherine Delahunty 
: I seek leave to table an academic paper from the University of London website titled  
Do low attaining and younger students benefit most from small classes? 
 by Blatchford Bassett and Brown. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.