Mahuta Nanaia: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Mahuta Nanaia: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:653;Page:2581] 
4.  
Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Labour—Hauraki-Waikato) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: What steps is he taking to ensure that Maori have a voice in the Government’s decision-making processes? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (Associate Minister of Maori Affairs) 
 on behalf of the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: He along with all other Ministers in the Government who share this responsibility has taken great strides in ensuring that Maori have a greater voice in the Government’s decision-making processes. Great strides in this regard include receiving direct input from Maori communities Maori organisations whanau hapu and iwi and also receiving input through the ministry’s network of regional offices and through his direct contacts. On a more formal level the Minister has this year convened a Maori economic workshop to receive— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is my understanding that when a Minister is answering for another Minister as this Minister is she should be answering as he would be speaking and not referring to the Minister in the third person. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Technically I accept the convention but I think—[ 
Interruption 
] While I am ruling on a matter members will be quiet. The Minister made it clear that she was answering on behalf of the Minister of Maori Affairs and I think a little latitude is reasonable. Has the honourable Minister finished her answer? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: Thank you Mr Speaker. On a more formal level the Minister has this year convened a Maori economic workshop to receive very direct input from Maori into the Government’s responses to the current economic climate. He has convened and contributed to a range of other forums including the Drivers of Crime ministerial meeting the Prime Minister’s employment summit and the pending Treaty summit. With his colleagues he has established a consultation process for the review of the Foreshore and Seabed Act. Across all of these processes the Maori voice is heard by the Government and it is included in and informs decision making. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: Supplementary question to the real Minister of Maori Affairs: does she stand by his statement calling John Key’s decision to cut the proposed three Maori seats from the new Auckland super-council— 
Hon Tariana Turia 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not think we need that member or any other member to imply that the Minister of Maori Affairs is not the real Minister of Maori Affairs. I think it is inappropriate. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The honourable Minister’s point of order is absolutely correct. The member should not be making that kind of comment when asking a question. I ask her to please just ask her supplementary question. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: Does he stand by his statement calling John Key’s decision to cut the proposed three Maori seats from the new Auckland super-council as institutionalised racism; if not why not? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: The Minister stands by all the statements that he has publicly made in relation to this matter. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Tena tatou katoa. Does the Minister believe that the level of cooperation and consultation that he has had with colleagues is greater than that which the Ministers in the previous Labour Government had with their Maori Ministers despite those Ministers sitting round the Labour Cabinet table? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The current Minister of Maori Affairs cannot possibly be responsible for consultation that occurred under a previous Government. That question clearly has to be ruled out under all your previous rulings on these matters. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The honourable member makes a perfectly valid point. I invite the member to rephrase his question to bring it within the Standing Orders. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Does the Minister believe that the level of cooperation and consultation in decision-making processes that he has had with his colleagues is greater than that which Maori Ministers in the previous Labour Government may have had with other Ministers despite those Maori Ministers sitting round the Cabinet table? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That question actually has not got round the issue and obviously it is factually impossible for the Minister to answer it. I am quite sure that the previous Minister of Maori Affairs the Hon Parekura Horomia played a far greater role round the Cabinet table than the current Minister of Maori Affairs could physically possibly do. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Mr Speaker in the past you have ruled about the issue of questions asking whether a Minister has a belief with wording such as “What reports does a Minister believe …” and questions seeking a comment or an opinion. In this particular case the question is seeking an opinion about issues of decision making that come from the initial question as well as about those sitting round the Cabinet table. In other words—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Thank you Dr Cullen for those efforts. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: The question I raised was about the decision-making process of Government and about the table that the Ministers sit at. I am trying to work out the complication in respect of the question because it was clearly within those ambits. First it was about the decision-making processes. Second it was about where decision making is done in respect of the Government—at the Cabinet table. Surely the question addresses both of those points in particular for this Minister to answer. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I think the problem for the member is that he is stuck on the horns of an impossible dilemma. If he is asking a question about the role of the Minister of Maori Affairs and the level of consultation then in any case it would be impossible for any Minister sitting outside Cabinet to claim that he or she has had more consultation than a Minister who sits inside Cabinet. If the member is asking a question about the role of a co-leader of the Maori Party then I think we have by now established without any shred of doubt that there can be no ministerial responsibility for or questions about the role of a co-leader of the Maori Party in terms of consultations with the current Government. That is not a matter of ministerial responsibility except of course for the Prime Minister potentially. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thank honourable members for their contributions because it is a serious issue. Questions should relate to ministerial responsibility and objection has been raised to this particular question. Te Ururoa Flavell is correct of course in that questions seeking opinions can be asked under today’s Standing Orders. However the dilemma for the member is that the Minister to whom he is addressing the question is not responsible for relationships that might have existed under the previous Government. If the member wishes to ask a question that seeks an opinion the question cannot include matters relating to relationships that might have existed in the previous Government because the current Minister is not responsible for that in any shape or form. I realise this is fairly tricky ground so I invite the member to have one last go at asking a supplementary question because I do not want to deprive him of the opportunity to ask a supplementary question. But it does need to come within the Standing Orders. I am sure members will be listening carefully. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It might help the member perhaps if the question was phrased: “Has the Minister had an unprecedented level of input into Government decision-making?”. That would be a legitimate question and we would be interested in the answer. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thank the honourable member for his advice. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Does the Minister believe that the level of cooperation and consultation amongst the current Government is of a level that he is happy with or does it exceed his expectations? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: The Minister of Maori Affairs is exceedingly satisfied with the level of cooperation between him and other Ministers of the Government. He is very confident that the views he puts forward in a number of forums are heard and listened to. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: In light of that answer does the Minister stand by his statement that there is a tussle between the Government and Maori rangatiratanga and when there is a clash the Government wins and throws out rangatiratanga even though the Minister did a deal with the National-led Government and sits on the Government benches while the National Government is throwing out Maori rangatiratanga? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: The Minister stands by everything he has said publicly. In answer to that question there can be no better reply than the Minister’s statement in reply to a question in this House yesterday: “The agreement that the Maori Party has with National is totally mana-enhancing. We agree to disagree and to not talk behind each other’s backs.” [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: I will continue the quote from the Minister from yesterday: “We have an open honest policy. We agree to disagree. We have done that and at all times there are no surprises and that is why our relationship is growing stronger every day.” 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: Does the Minister agree that the so-called mana-enhancing relationship between him and the Government is a farce when the Government has clearly refused to listen to the views of him and his party on the 90-day fire-at-will Act the minimum wage the foreshore and seabed and now representation on the Auckland super-council; if so when will he realise that the only mana he is enhancing is National’s? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: The answer to the first of the several questions that were asked is no. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Does the Minister accept that given that the Maori Party’s views on Auckland representation have been rejected but the Government has supported the provision of more money for the Maori Party MPs the public might be forgiven for thinking that this arrangement is more about enhancing money for the Maori Party than enhancing mana for Maori? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: No.