Mitchell MarkHon MARK MITCHELL (National—Whangaparāoa): Thank you Madam Chair; and Minister thank you for standing and taking a call on that. I do want to just seek some more clarification around it because I know that during the select committee process there was a lot of discussion around this. It was the fact that we recognise that these gangs these organised crime groups now are sophisticated and they're clever in the way that they launder money and hide their money. We also had to recognise the fact that often friends associates or family members are intimidated and they feel they have no choice but to allow their own accounts to be used to launder money from the gangs. So I just think that was a very good point that was raised by Nicole McKee who of course is on the Justice Committee with me and we had wide-ranging discussions on this. I think you've gone part-way towards—for any members of the public that are watching the committee stage this evening—explaining how there are safeguards in place but maybe you could just go a step further Minister in explaining that the example that Nicole McKee gave was a mother of a gang member who had her KiwiSaver account that had $100000 of legitimate savings in it that then had a further $50000 of ill-gotten gains laundered money from her son who is a patched gang member and how do you anticipate the legislation will be used by the police in terms of determining whether or not that $100000 from the mother was legitimate?Because sadly there will be cases where a family member is actually complicit in the laundering and has agreed to that and allowed their account to be used in that way. I would anticipate that that would then mean that there would be a full seizure of those funds. But how do you anticipate as our justice Minister that the police will treat this legislation in terms of how they'll deal with those often complicated and sophisticated sort of instruments that these gangs have put in place so that we're not capturing innocent people that have been used as tools who have been coerced and often sadly in some cases threatened? Thank you.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice): Thank you Madam Chair and look I do just want to acknowledge the member. I know that he spends a lot of time thinking about the way in which we get these issues right. It comes back to probably some of my comments that I made to the member Chris Penk that we've got the two sets of rights rubbing up against each other. One is they're upholding the rule of law by enabling the State to chase illegally gotten gains so seize those assets. So that's the upholding the rule of law. So against that unreasonable search and seizure and making sure that people that have justifiably—you know they've worked hard they've done what they should have making sure that they don't get entangled in a measure an instrument that wasn't intended for them.So I won't go through the safeguards again but I'll probably just highlight one of the final prongs of the test that's in the interest of justice. So the way that the legislation is set out now is that the clean money the money that belongs to the mother is hers and it's—I mean there may be some investigations that find she was complicit and that will be part of determining whether she comes to the table with clean hands so to speak. That will be a test that will be subject to investigation and inquiry and where it finds that those hands aren't clean well that may result in a different treatment of the money that was in there if it was found to be in any way tainted because it was received through ill-gotten gains or something otherwise. So they have to treat it in a particular way.But what the legislation requires though is that they have to be assured that the asset—like I said it had to be acquired illegitimately and it had to be over that threshold of over that $30000 and it would not be in the interests of justice to not forfeit that resource. So there are a range of checks and balances. This has been challenging. I too want to acknowledge the officials who had to diligently step through that balancing act. I was surprised if I'm frank that we only got five submissions on this bill—just noting the nature of the rights and the intersect at play—but I think that probably said to me in the round that where we've landed is probably about right in terms of whether we've treated those two sets of rights appropriately.