Watts SimonSIMON WATTS (National—North Shore): Thank you very much Madam Speaker. Despite overwhelming opposition to its three waters reforms this Government has failed to use the opportunity to listen and make real changes. We've been through a select committee process with over 88000 submissions and the select committee only heard just over 200 in person—five days to listen to those submissions! This is from a Government that right from the start said We will listen to Kiwis about this reform." Well I can be clear: Labour is still not listening on three waters.I want to take time to thank all of those individuals councils and organisations that took the time to submit on this bill. I wish I could say that your views and your feedback were truly considered but sadly this Government has made it very clear right from the start: they are not listening. Many submitters put a huge amount of time and effort into their submissions which were collected by an organisation and had their submissions treated as form submissions. This denied them the opportunity for them to give oral presentations to the select committee. I placed a motion on the table to extend the process to give them more time—more time for scrutiny to listen to those submissions—but it is clear from those members on that side of the House that they have no interest in listening to Kiwis across this country who are strongly opposed to these reforms.This Government has not made any significant improvement to its broken three waters model and the only changes that they have made have made this bill worse. That is an indictment on a Government that is failing to listen and failing to deliver on reform that is so critically important for this country and this country's future. The changes that were included as part of this legislation—the PM said and I quote "When the alternative models were put on the table by three mayors from Auckland Christchurch and Waimakariri". The Minister said "I'm really pleased that they have signalled an opportunity to commence a dialogue and we'll consider certainly matters that they have raised." The Prime Minister said "We're at a juncture now [that] we've been receiving public feedback and of course … we are open to making refinements and changes." Another quote—"I don't want to shut down what I think in good faith is an offer here for us to keep working together."—Jacinda Ardern quote.Seventy-two hours after those quotes were made by both the Minister and the Prime Minister in response to an alternative model that was placed on the table I placed a motion in front of the Finance and Expenditure Committee seeking an extension to request six more weeks to further consider the report-back date to allow us to consider the alternative model put on the table from those mayors. And what did they do? The Labour members and the Green members voted it down. That proves that all those words do not correlate to action. They are all talk; and you know what? Kiwis get that as well. They do not trust this Government they do not trust the agenda—and they proved through their actions of failing to listen that they have absolutely no regard for hard-working Kiwis across this country to listen to their feedback to make a piece of law that will outlast every single person on that side of the House better. They failed to take the opportunity; they failed to listen.Hon Member: No plan.SIMON WATTS: You can hear them baulking on the other side can't you? You can hear them going on because today is the only time that they've ever listened in the last five months. It is the only time they've listened; and that is a great great shame. I want to talk about two other changes in the bill. They are put in there explicitly—[Interruption]ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): Order! We will allow the member to give his speech.Hon Member: Five extra minutes.SIMON WATTS: Thank you very much. Five extra minutes would be appreciated—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): No I did not say five extra minutes—just to give your speech.SIMON WATTS: Thank you Madam Speaker; appreciate the offer. Explicitly two changes in the bill. One is about including green infrastructure like parks and reserves. They are lining up local parks and reserves to be transferred to these mega entities and the Minister pretty much categorically agreed with that yesterday in the House. They are also expanding the Te Mana o te Wai statement to include coastal and geothermal waters—under the radar three waters has become five waters. This Government are intent on a control agenda which will be detrimental to this country's future. They have not made any changes to the four entity model which was categorically opposed by all—if not most—of the submissions coming in. They have not made any changes in regards to the co-governance model that the majority of Kiwis in this country have absolutely rejected because it will bring more complexity more bureaucracy and more costs to a system and it is undemocratic for this country. Those are the concerns raised by submitters as part of the select committee process. Those are the concerns that that side of the House has failed to listen to. Now let's talk about the alternatives because you heard it from the Minister on the other side that there are no other alternatives. What a load of rubbish! That is absolutely and categorically wrong. I want to acknowledge the mayors in the gallery today. Too often you have been blamed for the issues of water infrastructure that have been laid at your feet and that is not fair. You're the ones that have been leading the efforts for change across this country presenting models and solutions and alternatives that would get us moving in the right direction. I'm sorry the Government is not willing to listen.I predict that members opposite will get up next and will stand up and bark the same old lies. And I'll put money on it Madam Speaker. They'll say "There's no alternatives". This is a deliberate piece of political theatre a mirage to hide the failure of their reforms. We saw a fully costed model by Communities 4 Local Democracy: 30 councils that could match the capital expenditure of Labour's plans without raising water prices and keeping assets in community hands. We saw the model from the Auckland Christchurch and Waimakariri mayors—that I said before that we moved a motion at the select committee. Labour aren't only not listening to the alternatives; they are actively blocking consideration of them. Any talk of no alternatives should be taken as the lie that it is—Hon Kieran McAnulty: Point of order. Madam Speaker. Everyone here is up for robust debate. But the member knows particularly when he is referencing a comment made by the Minister which is inaccurate he cannot use that word under any circumstances.SIMON WATTS: Speaking to the point of order. As I quoted I said "any talk of no alternatives". That is a very broad reference statement so my context of the word was in that context and that doesn't go to the point that was raised around a personal inference to the member.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Speaking to the point of order there's no context available to any members in this. It is very clear in Speakers' Rulings that you cannot accuse any members of that word. I'm not going to repeat it. Because in doing so I would be breaching the very clear rules of this House. He must be asked to withdraw and apologise. Hon Gerry Brownlee: Speaking to the point of order Madam Speaker.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I would like to make a ruling if you don't mind Hon Gerry Brownlee because there are two things—Hon Gerry Brownlee: But hang on a minute I've asked for a point of order. I was speaking to the point of order.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): OK you'll speak to the point of order and then I'll make a ruling.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Thank you Madam Speaker. I do so because your ruling may not consider the points that I'm about to make and that's why I've made that point. So the first thing is debate is allowed in the House—it's the whole point of having the House and the House process. So to say that something "gives a lie to" or that "it would be a lie to say" or "it could be considered a lie" or to infer anything like that is within reasonable debate. To call someone "a liar" is unacceptable. That's a direct accusation against someone. But if you're talking about a policy position and you're saying—oh OK I'll wait.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I would like to make my ruling now if you don't mind unless you were going to go further.Hon Gerry Brownlee: No I haven't finished and it's not very pleasing to be interrupted as I can't be by other members of the House for the House staff to do that. I don't think that's right. So my point is that Mr Watts has not made that inference about anything other than what is claimed about a policy—that's perfectly reasonable. If it's not then we have extremely constrained rules around debate in this House—rules that would suit the Government of the day whoever it might be because it would mean that they can't be criticised if there is a question about the validity of the policy that's being put in place. That's why we have a democracy that has a House that allows debate. Hon Eugenie Sage: Point of order. We get very good advice in this Parliament from the staff and I ask that Mr Brownlee be asked to apologise and withdraw his remark which reflected on the Clerk and its office. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I actually tend to agree with that Hon Gerry Brownlee because I do actually ask for advice from the staff all the time. The staff was actually giving me the ruling on which my ruling was going to be based on. I can actually still hear you as you are making a point of order but as you know I was about to make my ruling anyway so can I please ask Hon Gerry Brownlee to withdraw and apologise in terms of the comments made as the staff was giving me some guidance in order to make my ruling.Hon Gerry Brownlee: You can ask by all means.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): Seriously Hon Gerry Brownlee.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Madam Speaker you called me. You gave me the floor and then turned away while I was speaking. That's not acceptable. I've never seen that before in this House.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I was turning because the Clerk was coming to give me the Speakers' Rulings.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Exactly the point I'm making.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): Which is really disrespectful—not only to the staff member but also to me. I will now move to make my ruling in terms of the original speaker. So Speaker's ruling 44/4: "A member may say he or she believes a statement is incorrect but must not accuse another member of making a statement that member knew to be incorrect." This debate was really robust and you were making an inference that the statement that you were referring to was actually incorrect and in so doing you were making an inference that the Minister was actually incorrect in her policies. But the ruling I'm making though Simon I was going to make right at the end of your speech before—maybe about two minutes prior—you in your statement were saying something about other members of the House on the opposite side "barking" which to me is really disrespectful to all members including members of your side of the House. So I would like you to withdraw and apologise for those comments please before we move on and you've got a minute and two seconds left.SIMON WATTS: I withdraw and apologise.Hon Nanaia Mahuta: Point of order Madam Chair. In light of your ruling on the original point I seek leave to ask the member a question. Hon Member: Oh come on.Hon Nanaia Mahuta: It's a point of order. I'm seeking leave. I seek leave to ask the member a question to verify his statement.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): Are there any objections? There is an objection to it. SIMON WATTS: Let's stop this farce and I challenge—Tangi Utikere: Point of order. Thank you I'm just seeking your guidance. You'd made a determination in relation to a comment that the Hon Gerry Brownlee had made. I interpret I think that you had asked the member to withdraw and apologise for an earlier comment that he had made in relation to conduct that was going on between yourself and the Clerk. The member as I understand it has not done that. Is it still an ask or is it a requirement on the part of the Speaker for the member to withdraw and apologise?ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I did actually ask the member to withdraw and apologise. He did not. Would he like to reconsider and withdraw and apologise otherwise I—Hon Gerry Brownlee: Are you calling me Madam Speaker?ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I am.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well firstly this is not a matter that can be dealt with by way of point of order. If you look at the Standing Orders and have a look at Speakers' Rulings this is a procedural thing that cannot be dealt with by way of point of order. So the member is out of order asking for that apology. Tangi Utikere: Speaking to that point of order I may not have been as long in this House as Mr Brownlee but my understanding is that points of order are frequently taken in this House in order to achieve clarity from a decision that the presiding officer has made. And that was the exact purpose of me raising that point of order.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): I'll ask one last time for the Hon Gerry Brownlee to consider withdrawing and apologising otherwise I don't have another option other than to ask the member for the first time ever as an Assistant Speaker to leave the House.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well Madam Speaker I am terribly worried about a lot of people in this House losing sleep over something like this. So I withdraw and apologise.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): Thank you Hon Gerry Brownlee. You have 57 seconds Simon Watts.SIMON WATTS: What a way to stop the music with only one minute to go. What an absolute show. But let's stop this farce. I challenge every member to stop talking about no alternatives—because there are alternatives—and actually defend their model against the alternatives that have been put up today. National will repeal and replace this legislation if elected in 2023. National oppose this bill and despite overwhelming opposition from thousands and thousands of people that made submissions as part of this select committee process from councils across this country to authorities everywhere and in every corner Labour is still not listening."