Pugh Maureen; Andersen GinnyMAUREEN PUGH (National): Thank you Mr Chair. I just have a question for the member in the chair this afternoon Ginny Andersen to talk about the commencement date. Now I understand from the bill that it is the day after which it receives Royal assent but I wonder if the member has given any consideration to extending that out for any length of time given that this is going to be another cost on business. The reason I ask that is because this afternoon I've just heard four hotels on the West Coast have now been extended into hibernation. That means we've got 40- 50-odd staff that are now without jobs. We've got businesses that can't afford to stay open and adding this extra cost on to those businesses at this particular time—I have no problem with the intent of the bill to support women who have miscarriage. I've been in that position myself and I know that it does take time to recover. But at this time with the strain on business I just wonder if you have given consideration to pushing out the commencement date. Thank you.GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour—Hutt South): Thank you very much to the member Maureen Pugh. No there hasn't been a proposal to change that commencement date and interestingly through the employers who submitted and those who engaged with the process many of those give bereavement leave as of now even though it's not a legal requirement. So what we did find as part of that good employment relationship between an employee and employer was that this more often than not does occur in a good working relationship. There were only rare occasions where they were not being accessed. So all this bill would do is give people the certainty that if they'd been through a miscarriage they had the ability to apply.From the examples that we'd had—I'll go back to that initial section 4 of the Employment Relations Act—there is still that good faith working arrangement. I would see that to be working in a way that an employer would want a good reliable employee who is in a good fit mental and physical state to be able to continue at their duties and that may mean taking some time for bereavement leave. While that might be a short-term cost for a small business at an incredibly difficult time in New Zealand's history the long-term benefits of having a steadfast and loyal employee would pay off in the long term.MAUREEN PUGH (National): I thank the member for her response. I just point out to the member though that when this bill was being debated and the submissions were being heard we were in a very different place in this country. Businesses were in a very different place in this country. The strain that has gone on them over the last six months has been quite incredible and I think as a matter of good faith it would be incumbent on us as a Parliament to take note of that stress that is on business and perhaps push out the commencement date.GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour—Hutt South): Thank you very much to the member Maureen Pugh and I take on board fully your comments in relation to small business. I acknowledge readily that there has been an inordinate amount of pressure that the Government has responded to. And I know for a fact that through the wage subsidy in rounds one two three and four those businesses continue to receive support in the areas they need to. Saying that many have been in a position of a really dire time. I'd like to balance those concerns of small businesses with those of families in New Zealand—with those mums and dads and families who have gone through lockdown who have had babies who have had miscarriages in one of the most unprecedented times in New Zealand's history. So while I appreciate yes businesses are under pressure so are many New Zealanders in their day-to-day lives and it's important to have the compassion and the understanding so that our people can grieve and get on with life in a timely way. And what is good for people is also good for business.