3. Question No. 3—Prime MinisterDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Prime MinisterQuestion No. 3—Prime Minister3. DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement We're in lockdown because we do not have enough New Zealanders currently vaccinated to stop an outbreak that would devastate our community"? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes and within the context of that interview where my recollection is the claim was being made "Why have we used a lockdown in this situation rather than alternative measures?". But I'd more generally say lockdown has been used the world over and in fact less in New Zealand than in many other countries and has helped us achieve the lowest case rates death rates and hospitalisations that we've seen in the OECD. But now we have vaccines that are safe and effective and that can help us change the way we have used public health restrictions and we need to use that tool now we have it. David Seymour: Can the Prime Minister name a country whose geographical isolation population density population age and wealth gave it a greater head start in battling a viral epidemic or pandemic than New Zealand? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That actually squares with the answer I just gave. We've used those advantages to the best of our ability and the team of 5 million has helped us not only return to pre-COVID levels in terms of economic growth—and you saw where our GDP stats were taking us—but also some of the lowest case rates death rates and hospitalisations in the world so I'm not sure which table the member is suggesting we should top out. We compared ourselves to ourselves and did what many others did not achieve. David Seymour: Why didn't the Prime Minister add the Government's response to that list of advantages I just gave? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because it's implicit we led the response all the way through and perhaps I'd noticed the member had stopped using the one country he did use to use which was Taiwan who I see has had to deal with extra outbreaks and is continuing to try and lift its vaccination rates. David Seymour: Which country if any has high enough vaccination rates to stop an outbreak from in her words devastating their community? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I think you'll see every country is trying to get their vaccination rates high enough that they can use a lower level of public health restrictions. I don't think I've seen anyone that is using nothing though. Even Denmark who many are referring to does have very high vaccination rates across their total population but is still using border controls. Businesses are still using what they call their corona pass. So I think you'd find very few places that are managing to keep hospitalisations low without using a coupling together of vaccinations and other measures including their border measures. David Seymour: If the Prime Minister can't name one country with a high enough vaccination rate to stop outbreaks that would in her words "devastate their community" what strategy is this country relying on? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member is putting words in my mouth. It's only for those countries to determine whether or not their case rate is able to be managed in a way that they find acceptable to their community and to their health system. What I just gave you an example of though was a country that has managed to reduce down their public restrictions because they've had high rates. On the flip side Singapore—just as high vaccination rates but they've continued to still use restrictions. I think the thing that I would say to the member is we have always had the ability and the benefit of casting our eye around the world to see what other countries have done and we've very rarely simply replicated ourselves on others. We have designed our own strategy that is fit for purpose for our unique population for our circumstances and that meets our goals of keeping people safe and protecting their livelihoods and having as many personal freedoms as possible. David Seymour: Will the vaccine roll-out be complete when as Chris Hipkins has clearly said—and she agreed—every New Zealander has had an opportunity to be vaccinated or as Ashley Bloomfield has said when 90 percent of New Zealanders eligible are vaccinated? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member is incorrectly trying to portray there is a difference in opinion here; there is not. Both the Director-General of Health and every Minister that you will have heard speak on this issue has pointed to us aspiring to have the highest vaccination rates in the world if we can but certainly having as many eligible people as possible vaccinated. One of the concerns we've always had is if you set a rate too low you immediately give the ability for someone just to opt to be a part of the percentage that is not vaccinated. We can't afford that. Roughly 40 percent of this outbreak has been those under 19 years of age so a good portion have been children who cannot at this rate be vaccinated. They require all of those who can be to be to care for them.David Seymour: If 89 percent of New Zealanders are vaccinated and everybody's had an opportunity will the Prime Minister deem the vaccine roll-out complete even though we're not at 90 and will we be able to start taking steps to abandon the use of lockdowns and connect with the rest of the world?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We actually presented our plans around reconnection several weeks ago so I refer the member to that work rather than being repetitive on that. You will have heard us say that we have plans to alter the way that we're working at our border in the first quarter of 2022 and that includes the self-isolation pilot that we're establishing for the latter part of this year. On the question of whether or not we suddenly just close off the vaccine programme vaccines will need to continue to be available. I will never take away the ability for anyone at any point to change their mind and take up a vaccine. So so long as there is any New Zealander who has not been vaccinated vaccines will be available to them.David Seymour: Was the number of vaccine doses administered yesterday down to only 50000 from a peak of 90000 a month ago due to supply or demand?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Demand. We have more than enough supply. Supply will no longer be an issue for the course of this vaccine roll-out. We have long signalled—long signalled—that October was the month when supply no longer becomes an issue and with the additional doses that we managed to secure from Spain and Denmark that certainly made that the case from September. One thing I'll also point out is we do expect of course those numbers to move again once that big cohort we saw come through early on in the outbreak return for second doses. In fact today was the first day where second doses outnumbered first doses. Pleasingly the uptake for second doses is at a very high rate so we do anticipate being able to mirror that high first rate uptake with second. But it is going to take all of us. That last kind of 10 percent is going to be the bit that every country has seen takes that extra bit of effort.Hon Chris Hipkins: Did the Prime Minister see projections only two months ago that New Zealand would fail to achieve a vaccination rate of 50000 doses per day a rate that now some people are regarding as a failure?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes. I do recall when we said that our expectation was that we would hit a peak of 50000 a day being told that wouldn't be possible. Not only did we show it was possible somehow now that is a sign of failure.David Seymour: Why hasn't the Minister given a date by which she will be able to say every New Zealander has had the opportunity to be vaccinated?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Every New Zealander has an opportunity to be vaccinated now. As a member of a traditionally liberal party I'd be surprised to suggest—the member seems to be suggesting that we should take away anyone's free will as they seek those vaccines. That seems to be the suggestion from the member. Everyone has the opportunity today. There will be some who may have access issues and we're actively reaching out particularly to those who may be isolated or disabled to overcome those barriers. But everyone who wants one today can get one today. We have walk-in clinics; we have bookings. There is no question of capacity."