Smith NickHon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson): It's a pleasure to take a call on the first reading of this Arms Legislation Bill and to emphasise the importance that National puts on having effective safe and fair firearms laws. I want to reflect on the contribution we've just heard from the Green Party. It is National's view that part of reducing the risk from the awful tragedy that occurred in Christchurch on 15 March is appropriate gun laws. But I would challenge the Green Party that we can never pretend that there will not be firearms in New Zealand. Many experts have already said that one of the most important preventions to a repeat of that strategy is having strong security intelligence services and I note that that party then and continues to advocate the abolition of those security intelligence agencies that really are part of what this Parliament would do on a united basis to protect this nation.I do challenge the Green Party to review their policy on the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service and the important role it plays. I'm pleased to say that this Parliament has had cross-party support—with the exception of the Greens—on that issue and if they genuinely feel about the importance of the lessons from that mosque attack I hope they will review that position. Now it's not National's view that everything in this Arms Legislation Bill is wrong but what we do think the Government is doing is repeating a mistake that it is making in an area I feel strongly about and that is around water policy. That is this Government seems intent on doing stuff to people rather than doing things with people. We want to improve water quality but we want to do it with farmers. We want to improve the safety of firearms but we want to do it with those law-abiding citizens that hunt and use firearms quite responsibly.I do want to challenge Government members who have repeatedly ignored the pleas from National to work on a cross-party basis in this area. I have heard over six propositions—Hon Shane Jones: Posturing you're posturing—posturing.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: —around the issue of gang prohibitions—well can I ask Mr Shane Jones: why will his party not support prohibition notices in this legislation for gang members with firearms? We all know every member of this House knows that the bulk of the crime that's committed with firearms is done by gang members—Hon Shane Jones: Posturing.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: —and I'd love to know—talk about posturing—I've seen more posturing from the New Zealand First Party on the issue of gangs than any other issue by any other party. Why Shane Jones and his colleagues will oppose the good work that Brett Hudson and other National members have done around including prohibition of gang laws in such legislation absolutely contradicts what is required because members on this side actually appreciate that there is a large number of New Zealanders particularly in rural and provincial New Zealand who are involved in gun clubs who go hunting for deer and other recreational pursuits that are true decent responsible New Zealanders. Members on this side of the House are all for safety but we're also about treating those hunters and their recreational pursuits with respect and making sure that we work with them to improve firearms safety. Hon Shane Jones: They're not gangs. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The greatest irony for me with Mr Jones is that in the nine years of the previous Government the party that was most opposed to making progress in improving our firearms legislation was the Hon Ron Mark and members of the New Zealand First Party. Now they are the most ambidextrous party I have found on any issue. They are fair-weather friends—Hon Shane Jones: Flexible—flexible. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: —and there are so many members—and I'd say to Mr Jones that I would have met so many constituents in my own area who feel so let down by New Zealand First. They say one thing prior to the election. They vigorously opposed any form of quite moderate firearms law reform when they were on this side of the House and suddenly they have now been taken in by the Green arguments and continue to rat on the provincial and rural New Zealanders that were misled by the New Zealand First Party. So the members on this side of the House are saying that we're open to reform and I actually must commend Brett Hudson. It is unusual for an Opposition party to go out with very detailed policy propositions and say Look this is the sort of stuff that National members can support." This is the sort of balanced firearms legislation that will improve the safety of our firearms but not in a way that will impose an unreasonable burden and unreasonable powers against those that responsibly use firearms. I think this Parliament needs to learn some lessons from the buy-back scheme because when the buy-back scheme started the police acknowledged that there were 240000 firearms out there and here we are more than halfway through the buy-back scheme and only about 20000 or 10 percent of those firearms have been collected. How many members of this House really believe that every single semi-automatic firearm prohibited earlier in the year is going to be surrendered—Hon Andrew Little: So what would that member do? He'd do nothing. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: —to police by December this year? So Mr Little says what we should do. Well let me tell Mr Little we've said the absolute detail of what should be done and that is that we should go after those criminals that have firearms. Here is the member—Mr Little—that has been so keen to be soft on crime to reduce sentences and to go soft on the very people that commit the bulk of the crime and where Mr Little we see the world differently to you is we would go hard on crims go hard on gangs go hard on those people that pose the greatest risk in terms of firearms and give honest decent New Zealanders who enjoy hunting and other recreational activities—give them a break and not impose some of the excessive provisions in this bill. Hon Andrew Little: What a stupid member. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: So my challenge—oh Mr Little. He always—Mr Little's got this habit. Whenever anybody expresses a view that's different to his he goes for the personal attack. That speaks volumes about Mr Little. He should take a big—DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could we just cut the personal abuse? This is a House of Representatives. Let's have a standard in this House that doesn't support personal abuse. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Thank you Madam Speaker. It is our view on this side of the House that there are—Hon Andrew Little: That would make a change from that member. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Would the honourable Minister Little just please calm down. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I think it is interesting. We have the Minister of Justice who can't control his own temper—DEPUTY SPEAKER: And the Hon Dr Nick Smith just please talk to the bill. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The bill does have some useful provisions that National could support and what we have suggested quite constructively to the Government is a series of amendments to this bill that would enable us to be able to support it at further stages. The disappointing part is that there's been absolutely no engagement with National members—the largest party in this Parliament that showed on the first bill that it was interested in playing a constructive and supportive role. But you cannot—Hon Shane Jones: Opposition party. Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Well Mr Shane Jones actually it is right and proper that the Opposition scrutinise legislation and ask the hard questions because otherwise we end up with schemes like the buy-back that has only achieved 10 percent of what was promised and we end up with botched policies like KiwiBuild and so many other areas of the Government. So I make no apologies for holding the Government to account and for making sure that any firearms legislation that's advanced through this Parliament meets those tests of being fair and of being effective and improving the safety of firearms. I'd simply challenge members opposite to take a more reasonable approach and to listen to what the hunters and the responsible gun-users in the community are saying because it is possible for this bill to be improved so that it meets those objectives. This Parliament needs to take a very open and balanced approach where we genuinely are out to improve the safety of firearms in New Zealand while minimising the compliance costs and the hassles for those many New Zealanders who responsibly use firearms. My plea again to Government members is why not include the prohibition on firearms ownership for those with criminal records so that we can indeed keep the gangs keep those that are criminals—keep guns out of their hands and genuinely make an improvement to firearms safety in New Zealand."