edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Turei Metiria: Points of Order — Member’s withdrawal from Chamber ; Debate on Crown Entities Public Organisations and State Enterprises 
Turei Metiria: Points of Order — Member’s withdrawal from Chamber ; Debate on Crown Entities Public Organisations and State Enterprises 
[Volume:609;Page:6213] 
METIRIA TUREI (Green) 
: 
 One of the Crown entities reviewed by the Maori Affairs Committee was Te Mangai Paho. That Crown entity was established under the Broadcasting Act to promote Maori language and Maori culture by making funds available for Maori broadcasting and the production of Maori programmes. The Greens want to make clear their support for the purpose of Te Mangai Paho—that is to fund Maori programmes and broadcasting—and to say that we are very pleased with for example its mission statement which is: “Tuhia te ha o te reo Maori ki te rangi e kaha ai te mapu o te manawa ora kia rekareka ai te taringa whakarongo kia waiwai ai nga karu matakitaki.” That is translated as: “Let the language be heard on the airwaves thereby causing the heart to leap with joy the ear to appreciate its eloquence and the eyes to moisten at its impact.” Te Mangai Paho’s vision is: “Ahakoa ki whea ahakoa awhea ahakoa pewhea korero Maori.” That is translated as: “Speak Maori every day every way and everywhere.” Who could possibly disagree with that? 
It is true that the organisation has had some troubles recently. The recent report concerning Tame Te Rangi highlighted very serious problems in the management of conflicts of interest and monitoring of contracts. The report found that in general the systems in place were sound but that individuals with specific responsibilities failed to act appropriately. It is clear that governance structures were lacking and that management systems failed to deal with the problems effectively and efficiently. It is also clear that the responsible Minister did not have sufficient oversight of Te Mangai Paho and its management. Both the Minister and Te Mangai Paho are being held to account for those failures. Te Mangai Paho has already lost its chairman as a result and the Minister is certainly undergoing extensive criticism for his role. We do not doubt that the organisation will act swiftly to put in measures to identify conflicts and deal with them expeditiously. 
But I repeat that the Greens are supportive of the purpose of the organisation. Hence we entirely oppose any suggestion that Te Mangai Paho be absorbed into New Zealand On Air. We consider the current debate on the integration of Te Mangai Paho to be little more than an exercise in colonial assimilationist gutter politics. Nothing in the report or subsequently has called into question the purpose of Te Mangai Paho as an independent funder of Maori broadcasting. The necessity for this organisation is highlighted even more by the introduction of a Maori Television Service on New Zealand’s airwaves and we are very concerned that the success of that station is not undermined by an entirely unnecessary reform of the Maori broadcasting funder. There is no case for its assimilation into New Zealand On Air. Kia ora.
Visitors — Parliamentary Delegation Tonga 
Visitors — Parliamentary Delegation Tonga 
[Volume:613;Page:9837] 
Tuesday 11 November 2003 
Mr Speaker 
 took the Chair at 2 p.m. 
Prayers 
. 
Visitors 
Parliamentary Delegation Tonga 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have much pleasure in informing members that a parliamentary delegation from Tonga led by the Minister of Finance is present in the gallery. I am sure that members would wish that the delegation be welcomed.
Points of Order — Australian Aviator Mr Jon Johanson 
Points of Order — Australian Aviator Mr Jon Johanson 
[Volume:614;Page:10653] 
Points of Order 
Australian Aviator Mr Jon Johanson 
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a very brief plea in a motion to the House to show understanding and empathy towards the pioneering spirit of Australian aviator Mr Jon Johanson who has been refused the sale of fuel by the New Zealand Government to enable him to continue to fly his plane on from the New Zealand base in Antarctica. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to move that motion. Is there any objection? There is. 
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is the time of Christmas and I think that you should perhaps take some action to try to record this House’s disgust at the way in which the Government is treating this matter. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will be opening his Christmas presents a little early if he is not careful.
Robertson H V Ross: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — In Committee 
Robertson H V Ross: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:622;Page:17949] 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I say to the honourable member that it is entirely up to the members themselves as to how they cast the vote.
Mapp Wayne: Education (Establishment of Universities) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
Mapp Wayne: Education (Establishment of Universities) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:620;Page:16213] 
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I think the House is now in considerable difficulty. You have said that the Minister has moved a motion and voting has commenced. Yet oddly enough halfway through that procedure the Minister sought leave to move a motion that was apparently a different one. Leave was then denied. I cannot see how we can vote on something when the Minister right in the middle of it seeks to move something different. That seems to be an inappropriate process that we are going through. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: There is no difficulty at all. The vote has commenced on the motion originally and correctly moved. The Clerk will conduct the vote.
Civil Aviation Amendment Bill — Instruction to Committee 
Civil Aviation Amendment Bill — Instruction to Committee 
[Volume:615;Page:11242] 
Civil Aviation Amendment Bill 
Instruction to Committee 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN (Associate Minister of Transport) 
: 
 I move  
That it be an instruction to the Committee of the whole House on the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill that it take the bill part by part. 
Motion agreed to.
Hartley Ann: Courts and Criminal Matters Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Hartley Ann: Courts and Criminal Matters Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:626;Page:21672] 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I call the honourable Ron Mark.
Vote: Corrections Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
Vote: Corrections Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:617;Page:12998] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 62 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; Progressive 2. 
Noes 57 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 8; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Amendments agreed to.
Urgent Debates Declined — Prisons—Overcrowding 
Urgent Debates Declined — Prisons—Overcrowding 
[Volume:620;Page:15386] 
Urgent Debates Declined 
Prisons—Overcrowding 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have received a letter from Stephen Franks seeking to debate under Standing Order 373 the issue of overcrowding in prisons and police jails in two reported statements by Ministers. The Ministers’ comments relate to actions that are likely to occur in the near future. There is therefore no particular case of recent occurrence that would give grounds for a debate. The application is declined.
Vote: Identity (Citizenship and Travel Documents) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Identity (Citizenship and Travel Documents) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:625;Page:20120] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 41 
New Zealand National 25; ACT New Zealand 7; Green Party 8; Other: Robson. 
Noes 73 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; United Future 8; Progressive 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The next amendment in the name of the Hon Matt Robson to clause 8 is out of order because of the previous amendment. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of Pansy Wong to clause 17 be agreed to: 
to omit from subclause (1) the words “1 January 2005” and substitute the words “1 May 2005”.
Simich Clem: New Organisms and Other Matters Bill — In Committee 
Simich Clem: New Organisms and Other Matters Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:612;Page:8924] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Before I call the next speaker I remind members that we are dealing with Part 1 which is the commencement and we have already had 10 speakers on it. The Committee may wish to move on to the next part.
Catchpole Brent: Gambling Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
Catchpole Brent: Gambling Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8459] 
BRENT CATCHPOLE (NZ First) 
: 
 I will take just a short call on the title. I am pleased to see that the Government has taken “Responsible” out of the title because there is nothing responsible about excessive gambling and unfortunately this bill does lend itself to allowing excessive gambling. It does nothing really to tighten it up. 
The Gambling Bill as it is now entitled should I suggest have a different title. The bill is nothing more than a licence for this Government to print money so it should be called the “Licence to Print Money Bill”. This Government has set itself up to grab more taxes and more levies under the guise of supporting problem gambling. In actual fact the Government is not doing that with this bill. The title could be the “Government’s Golden Opportunity to Grab More Taxes Bill” because as this bill is set up it allows huge profits to be made and as those huge profits are made huge taxes will come from them. The Government takes a huge grab of those profits in taxes. So another title could be the “Opportunity for the Government to Grab More Taxes Bill”. 
United Future’s part in this bill has been to allow the anti-family section of it so it should be called the “Anti-Family Bill Promoted by United Future”. United Future members have set out to promote huge volumes of this bill. They are proud to say they have had some changes made. Supplementary Order Paper 132 is 65 pages long and they claim that in it are some changes that they have had made. So the bill could be called “United Future’s Anti-Family Supplementary Order Paper Bill”. That is a more apt title. 
The Government has removed from the title the word “Responsible”—the responsible part of it. The Government is now calling the bill the Gambling Bill.
Pettis Jill: Social Security (Social Assistance) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Pettis Jill: Social Security (Social Assistance) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:625;Page:19754] 
JILL PETTIS (Labour—Whanganui) 
: 
 I am pleased to speak to this bill. It ensures fairness and security and it makes quite significant amendments to the social security system. One of the advantages that will come to people from this bill is the extended eligibility for the accommodation supplement. We will be ensuring that benefit applicants who work for part of the year are not financially disadvantaged as seasonal workers often are—that is another advantage for communities—and we are changing the regime to encourage sole parents to establish paternity for their children or apply for child support. 
This Government has historically supported and will always support one-parent families when they cannot support themselves financially but we do expect the other parent to contribute to the costs of the child. I might be old-fashioned but I always thought that that was what being a parent was all about.
Pettis Jill: Civil Union Bill — In Committee Procedure 
Pettis Jill: Civil Union Bill — In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:622;Page:17543] 
JILL PETTIS (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Vote: State Sector Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Vote: State Sector Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:610;Page:7336] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 69 
Labour 52; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Noes 45 
New Zealand National 24; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 107 in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to the schedules be agreed to.
Vote: Land Transport Amendment Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
Vote: Land Transport Amendment Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:626;Page:21367] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to 
. 
Ayes 49 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 9. 
Noes 68 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Maurice Williamson to clause 68A(2) be agreed to: 
to omit from subsection (2) of section 168A the expression “300 W” and substitute the expression “600 W”.
Vote: Judicial Matters Bill — In Committee Procedure 
Vote: Judicial Matters Bill — In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:617;Page:12896] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That clause 1 be agreed to. 
Ayes 63 
New Zealand Labour 52; Green Party 9; Progressive 2. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand National 26; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 8; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Clause 1 agreed to.
Carter David: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Referral to Health Committee Procedure In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Carter David: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Referral to Health Committee Procedure In Committee 
[Sitting date: 15 October 2003. Volume:612;Page:9211. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon DAVID CARTER (National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is a completely different matter and I ask for your guidance before you leave the Chair so that we are not in a position where perhaps it may be necessary to recall you. In this particular section of the debate I have worked hard with an industry and will present a large number of amendments—around 100—to the legislation. I intend to seek the opportunity to speak to a significant number of those amendments because they are all quite individual and I want your guidance as to the time that I would then be allowed before the question is finally put in this debate.
Pettis Jill: War Pensions Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading 
Pettis Jill: War Pensions Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading 
[Volume:606;Page:3944] 
JILL PETTIS (NZ Labour—Whanganui) 
: 
 I do not know how Mr Worth kept a straight face while he was speaking; it would seem that he is suffering from a severe case of amnesia. I ask that member what his Government did for 9 years while he sat here on this side of the House. He now has the audacity to stand up and criticise this Government for putting this legislation into action and responding to the needs of veterans. Of course veterans are a special category of people. I am delighted that this bill is now going through the House. Let us progress it as quickly as possible. If the member really believed in what he was saying let us all sit down now have this bill go through all its stages and have it implemented as quickly as possible. I am very pleased to support this bill.
Hartley Ann: Debate on Crown Entities Public Organisations and State Enterprises — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hartley Ann: Debate on Crown Entities Public Organisations and State Enterprises — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:617;Page:13235] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The Committee of the whole House is seeking leave to debate two further reports—the financial reviews of Industry New Zealand and the New Zealand Teachers Council—at a future date. These reports have not yet been reported to the House by the select committees. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Perhaps the Leader of the House could ask for leave. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I seek leave that the Committee debate the New Zealand Teachers Council and Industry New Zealand institutions as part of this State-owned enterprises debate even though reports have not yet been received by the House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that course being followed? Leave is granted.
Robertson H V Ross: Copyright (Parallel Importation of Films and Onus of Proof) Amendment Bill — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Third Reading 
Robertson H V Ross: Copyright (Parallel Importation of Films and Onus of Proof) Amendment Bill — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:612;Page:9392] 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member is perfectly entitled to move that that be done but I say to the member that the reality is that the vote has been taken. Therefore it is not possible to relitigate the matter.
Brown Peter: Holidays Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Brown Peter: Holidays Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:16039] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I do not know whether I am correct but I understand that you must take calls in proportion to the parties’ size in Parliament. New Zealand First has had only one call in this debate and I think my National Party colleagues have had far more than two calls. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank the honourable member for his contribution and suggest to him that he look at Speaker’s ruling 59/2 which states that proportionality applies principally to fixed-time debates. I had been watching the member carefully to see whether he sought the call. He had not called for some time. He rose last time yes but he did not call to speak. I refer him to Speaker’s ruling 24/4 from Speaker Wall. 
PETER BROWN 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Frequently the Chairperson shuts members down or stops debate because it is repetitive. I have heard that many times from many chairpersons. I have refrained from taking a call until something new has come up that I believed I could comment on. I wanted to comment on aspects of this bill that are new—that have not been commented on. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank the honourable member. I have already taken the closure motion but I can assure the member that he will be given every consideration in terms of the next part.
Clark Helen: Tabling of Documents — Allegation by JohnTamihere 
Clark Helen: Tabling of Documents — Allegation by JohnTamihere 
[Volume:624;Page:19033] 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Could the deputy leader of the National Party also supply evidence as to when he actually clocked in at the conference? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave was sought and it should have been taken. Leave was sought to table the identification. Any objection? Yes.
Power Simon: Parental Leave and Employment Protection Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Power Simon: Parental Leave and Employment Protection Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:16489] 
SIMON POWER (National—Rangitikei) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I would like your confirmation as we head into this part of the Committee stage debate on a number of issues that were raised during the course of the debate on other parts of the bill surrounding the scope and extent to which members were able to debate amendments that were according to yourself excluded at the Social Services Committee but more particularly on matters relating to amendments that have been struck out during the Committee of the whole House—specifically the amendments proposed by my colleagues Bill Gudgeon and Peter Brown in relation to self-employed people. Leading into this part of the debate which is generally considered to be more wide ranging than the debates normally conducted through other parts of a bill—as you have rightly pointed out they are specific to the clauses contained in those parts—I seek from you an indication that you are prepared to widen the debate somewhat in the spirit in which these parts have been debated historically to include those matters that you have specifically limited or excluded by way of the select committee process or the proposed amendments that have been struck out during the debate in this Committee. I seek your ruling on that matter. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I again thank the member for his contribution. The review of the Standing Orders was produced in December last year and it makes the point: “We consider that when debating the preliminary clauses at the end members should have some latitude to summarise and make concluding remarks about the issues they have raised during the Committee’s consideration of the bill.” As I mentioned previously there is no reason why members cannot make a passing reference to the issues raised but that does not mean that the whole debate can be on them.
O'Connor Damien: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled  Speaker Recalled In Committee Procedure 
O'Connor Damien: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled  Speaker Recalled In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:613;Page:9995] 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Associate Minister of Health) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Vote: Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
Vote: Future Directions (Working for Families) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:617;Page:13514] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That schedule 2 be agreed to 
. 
Ayes 79 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 7; United Future 8. 
Noes 28 
New Zealand National 21; ACT New Zealand 6; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Schedule 2 agreed to.
Laban Luamanuvao Winnie: Border Security Bill — In Committee 
Laban Luamanuvao Winnie: Border Security Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:618;Page:13747] 
LUAMANUVAO WINNIE LABAN (Labour—Mana) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: The question is that the question be now put.
Carter John: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
Carter John: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:608;Page:5238] 
JOHN CARTER (Senior Whip—NZ National) 
: 
 We are about 2 minutes away from the time when we would normally rise. Rather than your interrupting a member’s speech and giving him or her only 2 minutes I wonder whether the Committee might be inclined to close for the night 2 minutes early and resume the debate on the next members’ day in a fortnight’s time when a member can then get full time. Indeed I intend to give notice at that stage to seek leave of the Committee to allow members to have two or three calls on end if they so wish so that they can give a full contribution. We have been doing that tonight and I think it is a good practice. But I think it would be useful if a member wanted to have more than one call he or she could do so so his or her speech is not interrupted and I intend to seek leave for that. But in the meantime with now 1 minute to go seeing that I have taken up 1 minute I seek leave for us to rise 1 minute early and it seems an appropriate time for you now to leave the Chair and I seek leave for you so to do. 
Progress reported.
Kedgley Sue: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Kedgley Sue: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:613;Page:10069] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 I seek leave to table one document from the Australia New Zealand Food Regulation Ministerial Council showing that contrary to what the Minister said the procedures for keeping secret official advice were in fact approved on 4 April of this year. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.
King Annette: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
King Annette: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8093] 
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health) 
: 
 I will take just a short call because I think it is important to correct something that Dr Hutchison said. He said that the provisions on Lynda Scott’s Supplementary Order Paper would take the politician out of deciding quality assurance. I do not know whether the member is very familiar with quality assurance activities. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Very familiar—much more than you. 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: If the member is very certain about this—and I am holding one in my hand—does he know who signs off quality assurance activities now? 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Go ahead; tell us. 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: That is why I am saying that the member is ignorant. The person who signs off quality assurance activities is the Minister of Health. I just happen to be sitting here signing off a quality assurance programme for ProCare Health Ltd at this very moment. It is signed by the Minister of Health and has been signed under the Medical Practitioners Act. That requirement has been put back into this bill and those members want to take it out so that the director-general signs them not the Minister. It has been going on for years in quality assurance activities. The Minister signs the very schedule that is laid on this Table but those members want to stop the Minister from doing that and give the authority to the director-general. That shows this Committee that a whole lot of gobbledygook is being been spoken by people who pretend to know what is happening. If the member knew what was happening he would know that the Minister of Health whether it is this one or a National Minister of Health signs quality assurance activities. It is not the director-general; it is the Minister of Health. That authority is transferred over into the new bill.
Benson-Pope David: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Benson-Pope David: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:607;Page:4999] 
DAVID BENSON-POPE (Senior Whip—NZ Labour) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Gallagher Martin: Forests Amendment Bill — Consideration of Report of Local Government and Environment Committee 
Gallagher Martin: Forests Amendment Bill — Consideration of Report of Local Government and Environment Committee 
[Volume:617;Page:12618] 
MARTIN GALLAGHER (Labour—Hamilton West) 
: 
 It is with great pleasure that I rise to support what I believe is a very good bill. I compliment the Local Government and Environment Committee and acknowledge the work its members have done. I also want to acknowledge Gordon Copeland. I will differ slightly from Jeanette Fitzsimons in terms of my view of his contribution although I did enjoy her  
Susan Sells  
allusion. I thought she did very well and maybe there is a career there for her in terms of television. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: After the next election. 
MARTIN GALLAGHER 
: Well I would put my money more on Gordon Copeland than on the party that that interjector represents—if I were a betting man which I am actually not. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: How much? 
MARTIN GALLAGHER 
: I am not a betting man. I thought that Gordon Copeland’s contribution was very interesting and certainly I compliment United Future on its ability to work through some issues and to negotiate. That is again what this Parliament in an environment of MMP should be all about. I compliment the United Future party’s members accordingly. 
One of my pleasures I guess—and it certainly was a great education—in the previous Parliament was to be involved with the Primary Production Committee in looking at the report that was published in 2002:  
A Sustainable Future for our Indigenous Forests 
. I also want to acknowledge to our New Zealand First friend over there on the Opposition benches that Doug Woolerton was a very very useful and valuable member of that committee. I found that exercise to be extremely interesting and extremely valuable. Certainly we were focusing on the sustainable production if one likes of indigenous timber on privately owned land and on trying to get a balance with the key word being sustainability. I note in particular that one of the features to stress in this bill is ensuring that the relevant export controls apply equally to all indigenous forest owners. Obviously that will also provide a mechanism to help South Island Landless Natives Act forest owners to opt into sustainable forest management. I think that that is a very very good thing indeed. 
Finally I again commend the Local Government and Environment Committee which has worked a long time on this bill. I compliment very much the chair and deputy chair of the committee. They have done a good job and by and large reported a good and constructive bill back to this Parliament.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — References to Matters Awaiting Judicial Decision Question No. 2 to Minister 20 November 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — References to Matters Awaiting Judicial Decision Question No. 2 to Minister 20 November 
[Volume:614;Page:10271] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. A question that we took to the Clerk’s Office this morning was dismissed as being outside the Standing Orders. The Standing Orders referred to in this case were Standing Orders 112 and 113. We accept that those Standing Orders are fairly clear. Therefore we would like some guidance from you about how we can raise in the House matters that have come into the public arena and are of concern but that have no material bearing on the outcome of a case whatsoever. It seems a little unfair to us that the media are able to speculate about what is meant by a statement made by a judge—or for that matter by a prosecuting police officer—but that we are not able to pursue in Parliament the information that lies behind that statement. If it is just an issue of reference being made to a case in a question then we would appreciate knowing that. But we are most concerned that our opportunities to find out more about circumstances that have nothing to do with the actions of the person being prosecuted or frankly with the outcome of the case are being cut off in this House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thank the member for raising that point of order. He has done so in a responsible way. I will have a look at that and come back to him with a ruling.
Vote: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — In Committee Procedure 
Vote: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:621;Page:16365] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 97 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 20; New Zealand First 13; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 2; Progressive 2. 
Noes 19 
New Zealand National 4; ACT New Zealand 6; United Future 8; Maori Party 1. 
Amendments agreed to.
Robson Matt: Prostitution Reform Bill — Second Reading 
Robson Matt: Prostitution Reform Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:606;Page:3612] 
Hon MATT ROBSON (Whip—Progressive) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have a proxy vote to exercise for another member who rang me after realising that the vote might be a personal vote. I said I believed that I could exercise the proxy vote in the normal way but the member suggested that I find out whether he has to be here for a personal vote. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Clerk will give the member that information. I am happy to support the decision made by the Clerk.
King Annette: Points of Order — Tabling of Document—Question No. 8 to Minister; Tuesday 24 August 
King Annette: Points of Order — Tabling of Document—Question No. 8 to Minister; Tuesday 24 August 
[Volume:619;Page:15013] 
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Health) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Yesterday Judith Collins sought leave to table a document at the conclusion of question No. 8. I have been advised by the Clerk’s Office that the member has not tabled the document. I am keen to see the report that she mentioned because she said there had been an increase of 20 percent in the primary health organisation charges from Feilding. As there is no primary health organisation there someone is being misled. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Let me say that when leave is given to table a document the document can be delivered to the House before the House rises. I refer to Speakers’ ruling 128/1. In Speakers’ ruling 128/2 leave to table a document is permission to table it. There is no legal obligation—perhaps there is a moral obligation but there is no legal obligation—on the member to use the permission given. It is entirely over to the member concerned.
Vote: New Organisms and Other Matters Bill — In Committee 
Vote: New Organisms and Other Matters Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:612;Page:8945] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 60 
New Zealand Labour 52; United Future 8. 
Noes 55 
New Zealand National 26; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 5; Green Party 9; Progressive 2. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 146 in the name of Dr Paul Hutchison to insert new paragraph (c) in clause 4A be agreed to.
Vote: Counter-Terrorism Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
Vote: Counter-Terrorism Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
[Volume:612;Page:9373] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 48 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Noes 69 
New Zealand Labour 52; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Amendment not agreed to.
Connell Brian: Taxation (Annual Rates GST Trans-Tasman Imputation and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
Connell Brian: Taxation (Annual Rates GST Trans-Tasman Imputation and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
[Volume:613;Page:10113] 
BRIAN CONNELL (National—Rakaia) 
: 
 I am just going to practise my Government speeches for 2005. I commend this legislation to the Committee. Part 3 is well-thought-through and very sensible. 
The question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 170 in the name of the Hon Dr Michael Cullen to Part 3 be agreed to. 
Amendments agreed to and Part 3 as amended agreed to.
Hartley Ann: New Organisms and Other Matters Bill — In Committee 
Hartley Ann: New Organisms and Other Matters Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8859] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I want to make this point once and for all. There will be no discussion during points of order—Mr Heatley is lucky to still be here and he has been warned. I cannot hear the points of order if members are making a noise. I remind the Committee that Ms Fitzsimons was asking whether we could have a wider-ranging debate on the commencement date.
Shirley Ken: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 2) — Referral to Local Government and Environment Committee referral to the Local Government and Environment Committee Instruction to Local Government and Environment Committee 
Shirley Ken: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 2) — Referral to Local Government and Environment Committee referral to the Local Government and Environment Committee Instruction to Local Government and Environment Committee 
[Volume:606;Page:3495] 
Hon KEN SHIRLEY (Deputy Leader—ACT NZ) 
: 
 As a matter of clarification; my understanding of our Standing Orders is that when we have a referral motion of that nature the consideration of the select committee the bill is referred to is confined specifically and tightly to the matter contained within that bill—that it is confined exclusively to that matter and cannot be expanded to include other matters. Is the House quite clear that that is the situation?
Peck Mark: Land Transport (Street and Illegal Drag Racing) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Peck Mark: Land Transport (Street and Illegal Drag Racing) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:607;Page:4565] 
MARK PECK (NZ Labour—Invercargill) 
: 
 I support this bill which was introduced to the House by my colleague Clayton Cosgrove and wish him well with it. I have only one thing to say to the House about this bill. One knows one is right on a matter when one has the libertarian Deborah Coddington hopping into the exact same political bed as Nandor Tanczos.
Hunt Jonathan: Points of Order — Access to Chamber—Media Obstruction  
Hunt Jonathan: Points of Order — Access to Chamber—Media Obstruction  
[Volume:616;Page:12431] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I say to Mr Prebble that this is one occasion when I completely agree with him and I am making a decision right at this moment that from 1.45 p.m. onwards there will be no permission for the press to impede a member’s passage to the Chamber and similarly from 7.15 p.m. onwards when the House is meeting at 7.30 p.m. The member’s point is valid. I have raised it with the chairman of the press gallery. He promised he would look at it; he obviously has not. So having tried the easy way I am now going to have to do it the other way.
Chadwick Steve: Resource Management (Aquaculture Moratorium Extension) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Chadwick Steve: Resource Management (Aquaculture Moratorium Extension) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:615;Page:11605] 
STEVE CHADWICK (Labour—Rotorua) 
: 
 Iremind the previous speaker that 1 percent in the polls gives a nought-return presentation into this House but I turn to more important measures about the aquacultural extension to the moratorium. Sadly all of us are waiting for the opportunities of aquaculture development in this country but an unintended consequence of the foreshore and seabed issue and a Court of Appeal decision have caused us to pay due regard to the commercial interests and the Maori issues that have arisen from that decision. We will deal with those in a consistent and integrated manner. I support this bill.
Simich Clem: Terrorism Suppression Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee Third Reading 
Simich Clem: Terrorism Suppression Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:626;Page:21662] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich) 
: The member’s time has expired.
Tizard Judith: Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) — In Committee 
Tizard Judith: Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 3) — In Committee 
[Volume:619;Page:15184] 
Hon JUDITH TIZARD (Minister of Consumer Affairs) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Burton Mark: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Burton Mark: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:607;Page:5007] 
Hon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House) 
: 
 As the member said he was not in the Chamber at the time but he is right in a number of the things that he said. However in one or two areas it is important to add to the information. As I sat in the chair that I am now in I observed that Mr Hide was not only warned with some frustration over the number of the points of order that were taken but perhaps more relevantly was warned over a number of interjections—indeed interjections during the taking of votes. The presiding officer exercised her judgment at the time as to the appropriateness of that. She took her decision and I hope as I said earlier that all members would uphold the authority of the Chair. That said in order to make progress and at the suggestion of the chief Opposition whip I seek leave of the House to have Mr Hide readmitted at 9 p.m. for the remainder of the evening as a demonstration of good faith on behalf of all members of the House to see progress made with the bill. Frankly most members would prefer to see progress made and useful and sensible debate engaged in rather than endless procedural points of order. Accordingly I seek leave. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.
Brown Peter: Prisoners’ and Victims’ Claims Bill — In Committee Procedure Third Reading 
Brown Peter: Prisoners’ and Victims’ Claims Bill — In Committee Procedure Third Reading 
[Volume:626;Page:20994] 
PETER BROWN (Senior Whip—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I draw it to your attention that the voting on Part 2 took well over an hour. I know that you were not in the Chair for most of the debate on that part but the debate itself took about an hour and 20 minutes and we took an hour and 10 minutes I think for the voting on it. People are listening to this debate. It is about a contentious issue that is of much concern to New Zealanders and they are not getting a fair go here. Marc Alexander and United Future have had a real road to Damascus experience with regard to this bill. I think Marc Alexander took two calls but he explained very little about the amendments in his name we are going through. There is a huge number of them. We are entitled to hear his explanation of them and so is the public. So I ask you Mr Chairman to be a little more liberal on Part 3 so that we can all have a fair go. I was denied the opportunity to take a call on the previous part and I make the point again that this is a contentious issue. The people out there who are listening to this debate want to know where we stand and why we are doing what we are doing.
Yates Dianne: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
Yates Dianne: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:616;Page:12304] 
DIANNE YATES (Labour—Hamilton East) 
: 
 As chair of the Government Administration Committee which heard the submissions on this bill I wish to support it. I particularly want to thank the members of the orchestra who set a very enjoyable precedent by playing a little mini-concert for the committee. We thank them for that and it was a pleasure to have them at the committee. The bill does not mandate that a member of the orchestra be a member of the board but it distinctly states in schedule 1 that the board should include a balance of members with financial and artistic awareness.
Jones Dail: Voting — Correction 
Jones Dail: Voting — Correction 
[Volume:612;Page:9121] 
DAIL JONES (Junior Whip—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. As a result of a misunderstanding on the part of the person in the House on Thursday afternoon I seek leave to alter New Zealand First votes on the following questions on the New Organisms and Other Matters Bill—that is that Part 4 stand part Part 5 stand part the schedule stand part and the bill be divided. Instead of our votes being for the Ayes they should be for the Noes. Mr Donnelly had forecast that but unfortunately owing to a misunderstanding the vote was announced incorrectly. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will take the leave of the House that that change be made. Is there any objection? There is not. It is so made. The voting figures are Ayes 92 and Noes 21 on the questions for Part 4 Part 5 the schedule and dividing the bill.
Vote: Ngati Awa Claims Settlement Bill — In Committee Procedure 
Vote: Ngati Awa Claims Settlement Bill — In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:623;Page:18853] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That schedule 10 be agreed to. 
Ayes 98 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 27; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2; Maori Party 1. 
Noes 22 
New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 9. 
Schedule 10 agreed to.
Shirley Ken: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Shirley Ken: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:607;Page:5004] 
Hon KEN SHIRLEY (Deputy Leader—ACT NZ) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. That is very helpful and I think all members of the Committee will be grateful for your consideration on that point. It is precisely the point my colleague Mr Hide was seeking and was what saw him ejected from the Chamber for. On that basis I recommend that he now be allowed to return to the Chamber. He has had his time in the sin bin as it were and as it seems the Chair has acknowledged that the point Mr Hide was making was valid I therefore ask that he be readmitted for this debate.
Adams Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Adams Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 15 October 2003. Volume:612;Page:9182. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
PAUL ADAMS (United Future) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is rather by way of clarification. We have had questions to Ministers and are now about to have questions to members. Could you clarify for me whether the format is the same—that is do we ask questions of the member as though we were asking them of a Minister? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I usually allow the member who asks the substantive question to ask the supplementary question.
Gallagher Martin: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Gallagher Martin: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 19 June 2003. Volume:609;Page:6425. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
8.  
MARTIN GALLAGHER (NZ Labour—Hamilton West) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: What reports has he received suggesting that burglary was being displaced by increased car conversion and theft from car offences? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 Recent information advises me that car conversion offences dropped 23 percent between 1995 and 2002 while the crime of theft from cars remained static over the same period. Burglaries over the period also dropped by almost 23 percent. 
Martin Gallagher 
: How was the Minister’s attention drawn to those significant gains? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Written questions from the Hon Tony Ryall alerted me to those outstanding results. I and the rest of the country thank him for highlighting such success by the police. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Noting that burglaries from cars have risen every year under this Minister’s stewardship does he find it acceptable that with 3 years of increases in burglaries from cars we now have a burglary from a car every 10 minutes of every day this year and we have a car stolen every 13 minutes of every hour day and night? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I can tell the member that it is a lot less comparatively than under the National Government when car thefts increased 19.5 percent in the same time period. 
Ron Mark 
: How can the Minister be suddenly so surprised at those statistics when in January 2001 the Insurance Council said we were losing something like $20 million a month in such related burglaries and thefts and in January 2002 the Insurance Council once again warned that we were suffering massive increases in car thefts car burglaries and car conversions? Why is that a revelation to him when the whole of the rest of the country knows it only too well? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I was surprised that the Hon Tony Ryall asked such a question because in 1995 there were 50672 car conversions and in 2002 there were 38824. That is a very good result. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Was the Minister ecstatic with joy when in providing answers to my written questions he discovered that burglaries from cars in his own Manurewa district are now at the highest level ever recorded by the New Zealand Police? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Although there has been an increase in the south Auckland – Counties-Manukau area generally it is only one of nine police districts—of the 60-odd—where there has been an increase. Overall the rate is going down. The member knows that and does not like it.
Connell Brian: Points of Order — Members’ Day—Rescheduling of Debate Parliament Building—Media Access Members’ Day—Rescheduling of Debate 
Connell Brian: Points of Order — Members’ Day—Rescheduling of Debate Parliament Building—Media Access Members’ Day—Rescheduling of Debate 
[Volume:624;Page:19715] 
BRIAN CONNELL (National—Rakaia) 
: 
 I seek leave to table Standing Order 9 “Official report”. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.