Rurawhe AdrianHon NATHAN GUY (National—Ōtaki): Thank you very much Mr Speaker. Listening to the debate this afternoon I was able to reminisce back to the weekend just gone. I'm a licensed gun holder. I was out there with my 15-year-old son on our farm and a couple of his mates doing our bit for Predator Free 2050 shooting possums. Before we went out I said to my son and his mates Let's run through the seven basic rules of firearm safety." I have a saying: "Out together back together." So we went out after they had been well schooled on the vital information of keeping safe. We went out and had some fun. Now this bill is brought about because of the terrible mosque killings in Christchurch. And we know we've had the first stage of gun reform whereby semi-automatic firearms had to be handed in. The Government went through the amnesty. I think it's fair to say that the amnesty didn't go as well as everyone would have hoped.David Seymour: It was a disaster.Hon NATHAN GUY: I can hear David Seymour saying indeed it was a disaster. Reading through the facts it's estimated by the New Zealand Police there are 1.2 million or 1.5 million firearms in New Zealand and the amnesty yielded something like 56000. So we know that there is a hell of a lot of weapons in New Zealand that are in the hands of unlicensed individuals. And that is a real concern. Potentially there are 180000 illegal weapons at large in New Zealand. So in my mind that's why it made sense for the Government to back what National's been saying for the last 18 months or so: let's get tough on these gangs with a prohibition order. So we had a member's bill; got voted down by the Government. We tried through the select committee stage tried through the committee stage to really get tougher on gangs and what they do in communities with peddling illegal firearms. And what do we hear from the Government? "No that's not necessary because 1800 cops are actually going to deal with that issue." Well that doesn't sit comfortably with me when I think back to what I've heard in the last wee while about the individual that took 51 innocent lives in Christchurch at the mosque killings when we get down to the level of detail about how that individual got a firearms licence in New Zealand. When we look at that detail—and by and large when the police came and interviewed me and my wife for my firearms licence they went through a hell of a lot of detail. They interviewed my wife. They went and had a look at the storage area the gun safes. They looked at the weapons. They wrote down some I think serial numbers as well. I was heartened by that process a few years ago. But when we drill down on the detail of the murderer that has now pleaded guilty that took 51 innocent lives how did that individual become a licensed firearm owner in New Zealand? There is a fit and proper test that the individuals need to go through. Well we now learn that the referees of that particular individual came from a chatroom where they had never personally met the murderer and those were the people that were interviewed. That is disgraceful. So we get back to the point of this bill now and the opportunities that the Government has turned down to do the right thing and get tougher on gangs. What this is going to mean is that good law-abiding citizens that have a firearms licence will have to pay more because it will move from a 10-year licence to a five-year licence. I do acknowledge the change that's been made for farmers with the ability to apply for a pest management regime and hold a semi-automatic weapon. I think that's a good move. But I'm disappointed that the Government didn't take this opportunity to get tougher on gangs. I'm also heartened to hear that the register that hasn't worked in Canada—it's cost a couple of billion dollars—is being delayed. This bill will be reviewed and reviewed and we will—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe): Order! The member's time has expired. This is a split call. I call Rino Tirikatene."