Woodhouse MichaelHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National): So that's helpful in part. I want to just clarify when he talked about the $33 billion that was I think he said charged against the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund—Hon Grant Robertson: No no no—against the imprest. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: Against? Hon Grant Robertson: The imprest supply bill. You asked me about how much money had been in the imprest supply bill. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: Right. So $33 billion of the $36 billion of operating expenses (OPEX) in the imprest supply—Hon Grant Robertson: $33 billion of the total of $50 billion—because it's just the same number. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: I'm trying to work out whether that was nominally allocated or formed part of the Supplementary Estimates. Now for the benefit of the committee the reason this is relevant is that I think it's very important to understand when we're examining this Budget and imprest supply No. 2 tomorrow that we understand the degree to which the $50 billion fund has been exhausted—Hon Grant Robertson: Two different things though. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: I know I'm just—let me just explain my question. The Minister is right as he would be—he knows these things. There is a $50 billion fund that he announced there is an imprest supply in the Budget that he's allocated and the two don't line up—I get that. The authorisation to spend up to $54 billion has now been exhausted and either those nominally announced and allocated projects are in this Budget or they're going to have to be the subject of a subsequent second imprest supply for this year—I get that. But what's really important across the two years and into the future is whether more than $50 billion has been spent or less or the same and one of the things that we have been trying to ask the Minister both of OPEX and capital expenditure (CAPEX)—and I'll come to CAPEX in a minute—is: is the tin empty? Are we topping up the tin or is there still enough money in the $50 billion fund because he told the committee that there was about $5.1 billion not allocated—forget the nomenclature about appropriated and authorised. So let's say there was $5.1 billion. I interpreted that as being regardless of whether it's been announced allocated authorised or spent. That's the sum of all of those categories made up to about $4 billion. What are we going to hear next about COVID? Is there $6 billion which inexplicably was split across future years—I don't know why that was done at first imprest supply—or are we going to be needing more than $50 billion? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): Again the member is conflating two things that while they are happening at the same time are not the same thing. So the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund is an envelope set aside to manage the Government's response. Imprest supply provides the authority for spending. They don't actually need to relate to each other at all. They do in part because there is a need. One of the unexpected things is the response to COVID. To answer the member's direct questions that money the just on $5 billion that was remaining at Budget time when these Estimates were there—yep that money was part of the Estimates. The reason in both the Budget and separately in the imprest supply bill as to why it's spread is that's the Treasury's judgment. It's not a judgment made by the Government; it's their judgment about when they think expenditure might be needed. I have to say on the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund that that is not necessarily a judgment I would share as to how they spread it out but that is their job to do when they do the independent economic forecast. In terms of then the substantive question that the member asked about will there be a need to replenish the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund as I've just suggested there is ongoing expenditure around matters like vaccinations and managed isolation and quarantine and so on which may well mean that we need to replenish that fund. What we know right now today in terms of the most pressing expenditure and the largest expenditure which is the wage subsidy scheme and related supports is we have more than enough money because previously appropriated money is available to us to spend.