Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 24 July 2012. Volume:682;Page:3805. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
5. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his statement in relation to the share give-away as part of his asset sales programme that “If the member wants to go to the Budget he will see quite clearly laid out the Government’s programme the anticipated return that the Crown will get and the costs likely to be associated”? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 The words before the quote are “the members” but I stand by my statement which I made on 20 June. The Budget does set out the returns and costs from the mixed-ownership programme. Ministers have since made the decision in principle to offer a loyalty bonus. We are taking advice on how to treat this in the Government’s books—for example whether we need to make a separate appropriation for it. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: So is the Prime Minister confirming that in his answer to that question when he referred to the costs likely to be associated with the asset sale programme he was not accounting for the cost of the share give-away? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Firstly I would reject the term “give-away”. In terms of the loyalty bonus Treasury is working out exactly where that might be accounted. Overall what it has said is that for the total costs the best estimates are about 2 percent of the proceeds but that includes a lot of other factors. It will come back to us with advice on how it should be appropriated. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Given that the Government has previously said the cost of the asset sale programme would be about 2 percent of proceeds or about $120 million is he now saying that the cost of the share give-away or the bonus scheme will be a further 2 percent or $120 million on top of that? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: No I am not. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does the Prime Minister understand that under our constitutional system Governments have to ask the permission of Parliament to spend money and that Parliament has the right to expect that the full costs of the asset sale programme including the share give-away would have to be included in the Budget or another appropriation or a piece of legislation before this House? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: The member is making some assumptions that may be incorrect. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Which assumptions are incorrect? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: The way that the loyalty scheme will be paid for. At the moment we are taking advice on that but there are a number of ways that it may be paid for. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Given that in his earlier answers to David Shearer he said that the way he planned to pay for the loyalty scheme was to hold some shares back from the asset sale programme then use them for the loyalty scheme why would he not need parliamentary approval to give away those further shares given that giving away shares is the same as spending money and the Government needs parliamentary approval to spend money? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: The member is making some assumptions that may not be correct like so many things he has said about the mixed-ownership model. But I can assure the member that the Government will follow the law. We always do on this side of the House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Dr Russel Norman. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Supplementary— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Tell John Banks that! Tell John Banks that! 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Yeah tell that to “Banksie”! 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! Goodness me! Dr Russel Norman. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: In light of his comment on the weekend that “we don’t favour one group over another.” why is his Government planning to make the 95 percent of New Zealanders who will not buy shares in these companies subsidise the 5 percent who might? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Again that is where the member is just talking rubbish and has been the whole way through. For a start-off there are 1.8 million KiwiSaver accounts around New Zealand. My guess is that a great many of those will probably participate. Secondly the New Zealand Superannuation Fund is likely to be a buyer along with ACC. They may well buy in these shares. But most important the proceeds from the mixed-ownership model will be used to buy other assets for the benefit of New Zealand. When we go and build a billion dollars’ worth of 21st century schools that member will want to be associated with that I am sure.