Whaitiri MekaMEKA WHAITIRI (Labour—Ikaroa-Rāwhiti): Can I thank the Minister for Māori Development for giving that explanation on Part 2 of this bill. I do have a few questions and I guess it is probably just to centre myself in Part 2 and I appreciate the Minister's comments around it. There are three subparts—so we are talking about Whenua Māori/Māori land" "Whenua tāpui" and "Kawenata tiaki whenua". The Minister explained "Whenua Māori/Māori land' ". This subpart does define Māori customary land disposal rules who determines what Māori customary land is who determines the collective owners of Māori customary lands appointments of a kaiwhakahaere and change of status of Māori customary land to Māori freehold land. It also defines Māori freehold land disposal rules how land becomes Māori freehold land and how land ceases to become Māori freehold land. Then of course it goes into Subpart 2 "Whenua tāpui"—definitions of the types of whenua tāpui the application process to become a whenua tāpui on Māori customary land or Māori freehold land or private land and the role of the Minister for new whenua tāpui on Crown land.So why is this particular part important to Māori land owners? Under Subpart 1 "Whenua Māori/Māori land" I guess like the content of this bill—and we are talking about Part 2—it is ensuring that the content is meeting what was laid out in Part 1 and we are ensuring that we are meeting those principles that many in this Committee have debated. But in terms of Subpart 1 "Whenua Māori/Māori land" I guess for me I need assurances that the provisions contained in this part do not lead intentionally or unintentionally to Māori land alienation or to owners being removed from participating in making decisions on their land. So that is why this part for me is really important.If I refer the Minister to subclause (2) of clause 13 "Māori customary land cannot be disposed of" but it does not prevent the reservation of Māori customary land and cancellation. I will just give the Minister time to look at it and I can then also get my notes so that I do not go off skew there.So when we talk in clause 13 about "… Māori customary land cannot be—(a) disposed of;" I just note it is interesting that subclause (2)—so subclause (1) talks about defining "… Māori customary land cannot be—(a) disposed of; or (b) vested or acquired under an Act …" and that is very clear. But then we go to subclause (2) where we say "However" and so I guess when you have got absolute clauses and then you have "However" that seems to draw my attention. This says: "However this section does not prevent—(a) any change in the class of collective owners who in accordance with tikanga Māori hold a parcel of Māori customary land as long as the change is made in accordance with tikanga Māori: (b) the reservation of Māori customary land as a whenua tāpui the cancellation of the reservation any vesting related to the reservation or cancellation or the grant of any lease under subpart 2:". So if I then go to Subpart 2 and then I will draw the Committee's attention to a reference in Subpart 2 "Whenua tāpui" we find the statement in there in clause 13(1) that talks about "… Māori customary land cannot be—(a) disposed of;" and then it goes into I guess the exceptions.The question that I have for the Minister is about ensuring that when we have that "However" point made up in subclause (2) of clause 13 it does not interfere with the objective in subclause (1) of clause 13. I hope that makes sense. That is a question anyway to the Minister that the state of interest in Māori customary land cannot be disposed of and the second section goes "However". So I just wanted some assurances from the Minister that subclause (1) of clause 13—[Bell rung] Mr Chair. The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard): I am just going to interrupt the member for a second. I will give her back the call but I am going to seek the leave of the House to amend the votes that were taken. There was some confusion as to whether we were voting on the amendment or on the motion and what I am going to seek the leave for is for the Ayes without a division to agree to the amendments—so the Committee was unanimous about the amendments—but on the question that Part 1 be agreed to the Ayes are 52 and the Noes are 57. Is there any objection to that process? There is none. That is it.MEKA WHAITIRI: We have all recognised that this is a complex bill so the first question was around clause 13. It was about ensuring subclause (2) does not prevent the achievement of what subclause (1) is stating.Then I go to clause 14 "Court may determine whether land is Māori customary land". Again it lays out the role in terms of the court in clause 14. Then we go to clause 14(2)(b) and this is where I just wanted clarification from the Minister—"on application by—(i) any person with an interest in the matter;" of Māori customary land. So does that mean anybody? Then we talk about "(ii) the Register-General; or (iii) the Minister." and I guess I just wanted some assurances about when we are putting up applications for the court to determine whether a piece of land is customary land.The question I have is when we have any person with any interest I guess I wanted some assurances and if the Minister had any examples to actually show what are these instances—it could be a simple explanation. It could be you know the land gifted from the Crown and therefore they want to make an application but then my question in my head is that if that was the scenario—and possibly a scenario where the Crown is gifting land to a body of people and therefore we have got to put an application to the Māori Land Court—then why would we not just give it to the landowners' entity as an example? So I just wanted to make sure that I understood what clause 14 was.If I go to clause 15 "Court may determine class of collective owners of Māori customary land" again as I go down to subclause (2)(b)(ii) I am highlighting—Hon Te Ururoa Flavell: What was the section again?MEKA WHAITIRI: So section 15 subsection (2)(b)—The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Trevor Mallard): Clause.MEKA WHAITIRI: Oh clause 15(2)(b)(ii) where we have got "the Minister." there. It says in clause 15(2) "The court may make the determination—(a) on its own initiative in any proceedings;" so we would understand why a court would make those determinations. Then paragraph (b) goes into "on application by— … Māori [persons] or group or class of Māori [persons]" so that to me makes sense. Then we have got "or (ii) the Minister." so I would like to hear from the Minister why he would be involved in putting an application to the Māori Land Court to determine whether a piece of land was Māori customary land. So that is clause 15.Then I go on to subclause (6) of clause 15 where we are talking about appointing "a kaiwhakahaere for the land in accordance with section 17 if there is not one already." I go to clause 17 "Kaiwhakahaere appointed for Māori customary land" and I draw the Minister's attention to clause 17(2)(d) where we talk about anything else for which a kaiwhakahaere might be appointed under another Act. I guess the question I have for the Minister is whether he can give an example where that may occur. [Interruption] Carry on? OK. So that is clause 16 in terms of the appointment of a kaiwhakahaere and I will just reference the Minister's attention to clause 17 where we talk about the kaiwhakahaere being appointed under another Act—if he could give an example of that Act.Going on to clause 18 "Trespass or injury to Māori customary land" again in subclause (2)(b)(ii) we talk about "the Māori Trustee if there is no kaiwhakahaere appointed for the land and there is no evidence that the Māori Trustee is unauthorised to act." I guess I wanted to get a clarification from the Minister that when we talk about "there is no evidence that the Māori Trustee is unauthorised to act." what does that particular provision mean?I have got quite a few questions on the clauses in this part but I think I have given the Minister enough questions around the first clauses in Part 2 Subpart 1—talking about "Whenua Māori/Māori land" about Māori customary land about the appointment of kaiwhakahaere and about who actually can put up the applications to the court and we talked about other people with interests including the registrar-general and the Minister. I am just asking for some clarification from the Minister on those occasions so that we understand the ability that we are debating under this Subpart 1 of Part 2 is fully understood. Thank you."