King Annette: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeKing Annette: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 24 June 2015. Volume:706;Page:4697. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.Hon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader—Labour) to the Minister of Health: What advice if any did he give to Cabinet on the risks of the Social Bonds Pilot announced on 1 June 2015?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Health): Papers on social bonds were presented—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I don’t think the microphone has been switched on. Let the Minister start again now.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: OK. Papers on social bonds were presented to Cabinet—Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member could move closer to the microphone and talk into it that would help.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: No I do not think it is a problem with my voice; I think it is the microphone.Mr SPEAKER: If the member speaks clearly and close to the microphone we will hear the answer.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: OK. Papers on social bonds were presented to Cabinet by the then Minister of Health—Mr SPEAKER: No. Order! I cannot hear it. Can the member swap with another microphone? OK.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: Papers on social bonds were presented to Cabinet by the then Minister of Health in February and August of 2013. In each paper the Cabinet was provided a list of risks and a process for managing these risks was set out. These papers are available on the Ministry of Health website.Hon Annette King: Was Cabinet advised that a negative impact of social impact bonds could be a poor-quality service?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I do not recall that specific advice being given.Hon Annette King: Was Cabinet advised that services provided through social impact bonds could be ineffective and providers could cherry-pick their clients to avoid hard-to-reach users?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: The issue about social bonds is actually that we are contracting for results and what papers have also described as mitigating strategies around any existing risks. So what we are clear about here is we lay out what we want out of these bonds we contract very tightly for them and there is no payment paid until the contracted results are delivered.Hon Annette King: Was Cabinet told that the pilot services for social impact bonds would need to be non-essential health services; if so does he consider services provided to mental health sufferers and those with chronic illness non-essential?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: Of course those areas are absolutely really important. It is very important that people with mental health issues are guided back into employment and assisted in doing that. What we are clear about is we want a result for this vulnerable population and we are prepared to contract for that and pay for that result to be delivered unlike other Governments that have preceded us.Hon Annette King: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question asked—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will immediately resume her seat. The question was in two parts and in my opinion the Minister addressed the second part—certainly did not address the first part but addressed the second part—and that meets the Standing Orders.Hon Annette King: Are those lining up to be investors in social impact bonds philanthropic organisations well-meaning philanthropists or foreign-owned banks keen to make an even bigger profit?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: We are actually focusing on the result. The interventions are well proven. We are not actually too worried as long as the organisations are ethical about who provides the financing. But you have got to focus on delivering a result for a vulnerable population and that is what this is all about.Hon Annette King: I seek leave to table a Cabinet paper to the office of the Minister of Health—to the Cabinet social policy committee Social bonds: Proposal for a New Zealand pilot setting out the risks as I set out—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That last part is not necessary. The paper has been described. It is a paper going to a Cabinet committee from memory. Leave is sought to table it. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.