9. Question No. 9—JusticeHon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) to the Minister of JusticeQuestion No. 9—Justice9. Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) to the Minister of Justice: What referenda will be held at the 2020 general election and who will decide the wording of each of the referendum questions?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice): To the first part of the question one referendum is certain. I've already announced that there will be a referendum on the legalisation of cannabis. As the member will be aware Parliament is currently considering the End of Life Choice Bill and I understand that there is a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) which will amend the commencement date to that bill to make it subject to a referendum. It is however a matter for Parliament to decide whether or not that happens. I also understand there is a similar SOP seeking to amend the Abortion Legislation Bill which is yet to have its first reading but what happens there is also a matter for Parliament to decide. In respect of the second part of the question there is an extensive process to set a referendum question which concludes with a review by the Regulations Review Committee.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Does he agree with the statement to the New Zealand Herald by the Deputy Prime Minister that he has not acted in good faith on the question of a referendum on abortion; if so—Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect that member should know that the Minister being asked the question is not responsible for my comments.SPEAKER: The member will repeat the question exactly as he asked it.Hon Dr Nick Smith: I certainly will: does he agree with the statement to the New Zealand Herald by the Deputy Prime Minister that he has not acted in good faith on the question of a referendum on abortion; if so will he apologise?Rt Hon Winston Peters: Point of order.SPEAKER: No well I think I can anticipate the point of order. My understanding—and I'm prepared to have it corrected by the leader of New Zealand First and the Deputy Prime Minister—is that the comment was made by the leader of New Zealand First. Therefore it is not something for which Andrew Little has responsibility. Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker I've noted many rulings from yourself on questions asking whether a Minister agrees with a statement on a matter for which he has responsibility. Would it satisfy the Speaker if I used the phrase the leader of New Zealand First" to enable the question? SPEAKER: Well let's adjust it in that way because it is a statement in an area for which the member has responsibility. We don't need to repeat the question; Mr Little understands it. Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I regard the leader of the New Zealand First Party as always acting in good faith. Hon Dr Nick Smith: Does he agree with his ministerial colleague Tracey Martin on the Government's referendum bill that the reason for the legislation is that Parliament cannot be trusted on setting questions around referendum? Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I'm not fully aware of the full context though of that statement that was made in the context of a 10-minute speech. Now I'm familiar with the member who asked the question repeatedly taking things right out of context and making mountains out of molehills. I have no further comment to make on it. Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I raise this matter now at the first opportunity because it is my belief and indeed the belief of my colleague that she never said that. We are asking that member over there not today but he better have been telling the House the truth otherwise we're going to make a serious claim against that sort of behaviour. SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order Dr Nick Smith. Hon Dr Nick Smith: I know this is unusual but I've been challenged. I seek leave to table the exact quote from Minister Tracey Martin. SPEAKER: I think the member's seeking leave to table a document rather than a quote. Hon Dr Nick Smith: Would you like me to clarify? SPEAKER: Yes. I want to know where it's from and the date. Hon Dr Nick Smith: I seek leave of the House to table the parliamentary Hansard of the quote from Tracey Martin on her statement that Parliament could not be trusted on setting questions on referenda. SPEAKER: This is most unusual but because the veracity of a member has been challenged I am going to put that to the House. Is there any objection? Hon Shane Jones: No. Yes. We don't want to see it. [Interruption] SPEAKER: That sounded to me like a "Yeah nah" which ended up "No". Is that right? Hon Shane Jones: Speaking to my remarks sir unless the member is going to place whatever he seeks to table in its rightful context I object. SPEAKER: Objection has been raised; it will not be tabled. Hon Dr Nick Smith: Did the Minister ask at his meetings with New Zealand First Ministers whether they wanted a referendum on abortion given their clearly publicly stated position; if not why not? Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Again this member is offending—he's imputing things as a fact. He used the word "Ministers"—plural. To the best of my knowledge the Minister of Justice met with only one New Zealand First Minister and that's a fact that's been confirmed by the Minister now. So he's misleading the House again. Hon Dr Nick Smith: Speaking to the point of order Mr Speaker it's a matter of public record that there was more than one meeting and with more than one Minister on the question of the referendum legislation. It went to a Cabinet committee at which there were multiple Ministers the Minister himself has said that there were multiple meetings and it is also true that the paper went through Cabinet at which there were multiple Ministers. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Speaking to the point of order Mr Speaker the facts are as he put that question out it was a meeting that was apposite to the presence of the Minister of Justice; not a meeting with the Minister of Justice who was at Cabinet—no a meeting between the Minister of Justice and New Zealand First Ministers. In that sense he's again misleading the House. [Interruption] SPEAKER: I've got about three people having a go but before I do any of that the Hon Michael Woodhouse will stand withdraw and apologise. Hon Michael Woodhouse: I withdraw and apologise. Hon Dr Nick Smith: Can I repeat the question Mr Speaker? Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: No because Mr Brownlee has a point of order. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I do have a point of order and that is: why are you entertaining the dancing on a pin being presented by the Deputy Prime Minister? If he had listened to the question it is quite in order to have used the plural. If they're upset by the use of plural Ministers or plural for Minister in this particular question that's inexplicable.SPEAKER: The member's made an assumption in his point of order that I'm—well maybe I'm entertaining it by listening to it but generally there's an obligation to do that especially when there are senior Ministers who generally know what they're talking about to do with points of order. In this particular case I think there's an assertion that's been made as part of the question which can be dealt with by the Minister. What we're going to do is we're going to have the question read out starting the same and hopefully finishing.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Thank you Mr Speaker. Did he ask at his meetings with New Zealand First Ministers whether they wanted a referendum on abortion given their publicly and clearly stated position; if not why not?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I met consistently with one New Zealand First Minister Tracey Martin and we had a discussion on every aspect of the legislation. At one point when we were having those discussions it was in the context of public debate about multiple referendums happening in 2020 and the statement was made that no referendum was being sought in relation to abortion. In the end the bill as it is has been introduced to the House. It was signed off by Cabinet—that is the bill that is up for debate this afternoon.Ginny Andersen: What approaches is the Minister aware of that establish a referendum question?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I'm aware of two pieces of legislation which set out options for referendum questions to be set: the Citizens Initiated Referenda Act 1993 and the Referenda (Postal Voting) Act 2000. I'd like to draw the House's attention to the fact that the Referenda (Postal Voting) Act sets out a referendum question to be set by Order in Council therefore by Cabinet. Indeed that legislation which was introduced by a former member the Hon Tony Ryall received the full support of the whole House through every stage even after a change of Government. No one raised any issue with it; no one even asked for a referendum about it.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Why has the Government argued that decisions on referendum held at general elections should be made by Cabinet and introduced a bill to do so but then argued that the decision on a referendum on abortion should be made by Parliament?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: No such argument has been mounted.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Why does he support a referendum on euthanasia a sensitive issue at the—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will ask his question without caveats or qualifications.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Well I think saying it's a sensitive issue is a matter of fact.SPEAKER: Right. The member will resume his seat.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Mr Speaker the question of whether we have—SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Covering for the Government again.SPEAKER: Now all I'm trying to decide is for how long and on what basis the member is going. He has already been named for a similar comment. To name him again now will remove him from a vote which many people think is very important. The member's comment because he is an experienced member a member who acts deliberately indicates to me that it is his wish to be named. I am not going to grant him his wish but he will leave the Chamber and he will not return today.Hon Dr Nick Smith withdrew from the Chamber. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You were very quick to engage with Dr Smith on the use of the words "very sensitive" in a question. We have had very long answers to questions today—SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. I've dealt with that matter.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is not about your decision around Dr Smith. It's a request for consistency in the way in which the requirements—SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat."