Davis Kelvin: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeDavis Kelvin: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 01 July 2015. Volume:706;Page:4983. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]11.KELVIN DAVIS (Labour—Te Tai Tokerau) to the Minister for Primary Industries: Is he aware of reports that local wood manufacturers have been refused the opportunity to buy swamp kauri from Kauri Ruakaka mill which was formerly called Oravida and is allegedly involved in exporting raw swamp kauri and what is he doing to ensure that this irreplaceable resource is managed responsibly?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment) on behalf of theMinister for Primary Industries: Firstly the Minister was not aware of such reports but he notes that there are about a dozen operators from which local manufacturers could get wood and that the Government does not interfere in commercial arrangements. Secondly the Ministry for Primary Industries disputes claims that this mill is exporting illegally. Thirdly advice from the Ministry for the Environment and the Northland Regional Council is that generally the resource is being managedresponsibly. There have been some occasions when extraction from indigenous wetlands has occurred. In those events there have been prosecutions under the Resource Management Act.Kelvin Davis: How can Northlanders have any confidence that any new investigation such as the one referred to in question No. 9 on 17 June will not be another whitewash like the 2012 swamp kauri investigation which promised “closer monitoring of swamp kauri sawmilling and export participants” yet has failed to stop raw logs and slabs from being sent out of this countryillegally thereby denying Northland desperately needed jobs.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I would invite the member to talk to his colleagues because in 2004 the previous Government relaxed the law and made changes to the Forests Act.Hon David Parker: 13 years ago.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Indeed. Mr Parker who interjects was one of those who actually reduced the reporting requirements for swamp kauri that was being exported. The Ministry for Primary Industries remains of the view that the law is being followed. If the member genuinely believes it is not why does he not test it in court?Kelvin Davis: Has he discussed the issue of swamp kauri exports with Judith Collins whose husband David Wong-Tung and good friend Stone Shi are directors in the chain of shell companies that owns the Ruakākā mill the ultimate ownership of which is obscured by a lawyer’s nominee company?Mr SPEAKER: In so far as there may be some ministerial responsibility.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I thought that this member was above getting involved in that sort of murk.Kelvin Davis: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did ask a question and it was not addressed.Mr SPEAKER: Yes and I said that the Minister could answer it in so far as there was ministerial responsibility. There was very little connection there with ministerial responsibility. I allowed the Minister to answer it the way he did and that is acceptable.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is he denying what is well known to locals in Northland: that swamp kauri is being exported illegally and that his ministry’s lax enforcement of the law is because people high up in Oravida are major donors and players in the National Party; and there are the photographs of the logs all being exportedillegally?Mr SPEAKER: Again I will invite the Minister to answer if he sees ministerial responsibility.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The law in respect of the export of indigenous forests was passed in 1993 with that member’s support. It was softened in 2004 by colleagues adjacent to him with his support. My advice is that the law is being followed.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. He cannot get up and accuse me of supporting a law when I was not a member of the Government. He did it on both occasions—1993 and 1994. We all know that. He is just telling lies.Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] No I do not need further help with that. That is certainly not a point of order. I will invite the Minister if he wishes to add further to his answer in order to complete it before we go to further supplementary questions.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I would invite the member to check the Hansard as to how New Zealand First voted in 1993 on the Forests Amendment Act and again as to how the party voted in 2004 when the law was changed.Mr SPEAKER: Further supplementary question—[Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! There is now too much interjection in this House.Kelvin Davis: What does he make—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! We have now got to the stage where I have asked for fewer interjections and they have carried on. Mr Davis will now ask a supplementary question. If I hear an interjection coming from anywhere in the House that person will be leaving the Chamberimmediately.Kelvin Davis: What does he make of a comment made to Northland Environmental Protection Society head Fiona Furrell by a transport company involved in the transport of illegal swamp kauri which says: “You’ll never stop this while National is in power.”?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I would invite the member to check the parliamentary record and the law changes that were made to the Forests Amendment Act in 2004 which removed the requirement for the Ministry for Primary Industries to have to check that processed product was in fact processed in New Zealand. I invite the member to have a look in the mirror.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is the Minister saying that it is just mere coincidence that the Oravida company gave $30000 to the National Party before the last election?Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is absolutely no responsibility for that. I will rule that question out but before I cancel it altogether I will give the member an opportunity to re-ask a supplementary question that is in line with Standing Order 380.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Why is the Minister saying that these logs are finished products when anybody with half a brain can see that they are not?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The law that was passed defines stumps of kauri including up to 4 to 5 metres of the lower portion. If either that member or his colleagues adjacent think that there has been a breach of the law I challenge them simply to test it in the courts. The advice from the Ministry for Primary Industries is that the law is being complied with.Kelvin Davis: Given the players in the illegal export of unprocessed swamp kauri are confident that it will “never stop … while National is in power.” what options do the people of Northland have to ensure that their taonga is used to benefit the people not National’s mates?Mr SPEAKER: The Hon Dr Nick Smith—and again just respond to the latter part of the question.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I just simply remind the Parliament that it was in 2004 that the law in respect of exporting indigenous timber such as swamp kauri was relaxed that this Government has made no changes to that law and that the advice from the Ministry for Primary Industries is that that law is being followed. In respect of the Resource Management Act there have been some breaches and where it has been breached the Northland Regional Council has prosecuted.Hon David Cunliffe: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would ask you to reflect upon the rulings that you have given in this question. You have ruled in scope the Minister’s repeated references to law changes that predated both his Government and two reviews undertaken by his Government while at the same time you have ruled out of order questions that go to the current ownership and management practices of the company currently exporting—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I do not need assistance from anybody. The question that I ruled out of order was about an alleged donation to a political party. No Minister is responsible for that.Rt Hon Winston Peters: On the question of alleged donations I seek to table the document that sets out the two donations that the National Party—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat immediately. That information is publicly available to any member who wants it.