Genter Julie Anne; Kuriger Barbara; Brown SimeonHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green—Rongotai): Tēnā koe Madam Chair. Thank you very much Madam Chair. I did want to have the opportunity to both ask some questions and speak to my further two Amendment Papers that I haven't yet spoken to. I still haven't heard the Minister reply. Maybe he did at a time that I missed but I haven't heard the Minister reply to my original question about what consultation he undertook with the industry and whether he has considered a reduced road-user charge RUC rate for electric vehicles to ensure that we're not actively disincentivising purchasing new electric vehicles at a time when it's really important to meet our climate commitments. As the industry's proposed a $60 per 1000 kilometres rate would mean that electric vehicles are still contributing towards the roads and the upkeep of the roads but it would mean that it was slightly more in line with fuel excise duty; however not totally.The other Amendment Paper that I have besides that one is No. 24 which would address precisely what the Minister has said which is that they have a plan; they want to move to full road pricing for all vehicles based on the use of the road not fuel. And it would make sense to either delay this until we have done that work or to have a reduced rate for electric vehicles (EVs) in the interim because until we have that better system that the Minister was talking about we are going to be actively disincentivising EVs relative to petrol cars which doesn't make sense when the Government says it wants to achieve our carbon reduction targets and a key way of achieving that is by getting more electric and zero-emissions vehicles into the fleet.Now very occasionally I do use taxis—it's very practical—and when I do I'm always happy to find a taxi that's an electric vehicle. Grant McCallum: But you bike?Hon JULIE ANNE GENTER: I do. I bike a lot of the time. Sometimes I take public transport. Sometimes I use a car. Sometimes I use a car-share. And when I do use a car whether it's a taxi or a car-share—Tom Rutherford: What about planes?Hon JULIE ANNE GENTER: And yes and sometimes we have to use planes because we don't have passenger trains to the extent that we would like in this country. But that's why we advocate for investing in passenger trains.However when using a taxi it's always great to be able to find one that is a pure EV. And I know that a number of the taxi drivers that I use have EVs but we are hearing stories about heaps of taxi drivers now trying to sell their EVs because of the rate of RUC that is now proposed for them. And that is absolutely the opposite of what we want. EVs make sense for taxis because they're used more of the day you know. They're used for more kilometres. They're used for more trips than your average vehicle and if we have EV taxis that is a good thing for New Zealand's carbon emissions.So will the Minister consider either my Amendment Paper 24 or my Amendment Paper 25. Amendment Paper 25 implements the recommendation from the joint submission from the vehicle industry which recommended $60 per 1000 kilometres which is not a massive reduction in what the Minister is proposing. However it would help take the edge off because we don't want to actively disincentivise EVs. The other option of course is if we are going to have a much better more accurate road-pricing system then wait until you're ready to implement that rather than creating this disparity between EVs and fossil fuel vehicles at this time.Hon Member: We need to pay for the roads somehow.Hon JULIE ANNE GENTER: We do need to pay for the roads somehow and it would make sense to none the less retain some sort of neutral playing field so that we're getting more EVs in because if we don't have EVs this Government literally has not a single plan to reduce emissions from transport and they should be more transparent about that because they keep saying they're committed to reducing carbon emissions yet every action they take is going in the opposite direction. And that's what we heard from the industry at the select committee. We heard from the industry that this is going to actively penalise electric vehicles which is the opposite of what we need to do if we want to get more electric vehicles into the fleet in this critical period in the next five years.Finally we have considered and I've proposed an Amendment Paper—we're glad that the Minister picked up the change that we proposed at the select committee that the Government members accidentally voted for which reduces the rate for plug-in hybrids. However even the plug-in hybrids that have very short battery ranges we're proposing an amendment that would just exempt owners of plug-in hybrids from paying RUC if their vehicle has 30 kilometre or less in battery range. Because the reality is that those vehicles in their use of the roads are far more akin to petrol vehicles. They're going to be paying petrol tax on the fuel they use on that plug-in hybrid and so it would just make sense—and reduce paperwork really—to exempt them.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): The member's time has expired.Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport): Oh look thank you Madam Chair and I thank the member for her question in regards to the joint submission which was from the industry. The joint submission was provided to me prior to the select committee process. I invited them to contribute to the select committee and I thank the committee for reporting back with its views on the submissions. So I think that answers that question.On the question in relation to the cost of running vehicles page 4 of the departmental report has a very good analysis around the average running costs of different vehicles based on what type of fuels. Electric vehicles are very much at the bottom of the range because their operating costs are so much lower. And the reality is what this does is it shows that the operating costs are a lot lower than driving a petrol or diesel vehicle whilst also meaning they're paying a fair amount to use the roads which is the intent.As members can see based on page 4 of the departmental report there is variance and that's why we need to move all vehicles to pay a road-user charge based on distance and weight rather than based on the type of fuel that they use. And we've already started work on that.There's been a number of tabled amendments. The member the Hon Julie Anne Genter proposed to establish a power to set a reduced rate for EVs—sets the rate at $60. That's inconsistent with the purpose of the Act. The legislation doesn't propose to change the road-user charge rate. Another one by the Hon Julie Anne Genter proposes an exemption for plug-in hybrids with a battery range of less than 30 kilometres. Implementing this would require New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) to determine how to measure a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle's battery life and so would you base that on what the battery life is when they purchase the vehicle? Would you measure that based on the actual life? If it's an older battery it may not—actually it may be sold as saying 40 kilometres but now it only operates at 20 25. Ultimately that's why we've reduced the plug-in hybrid rate because there is a variance in that issue.There's a proposal by Arena Williams in relation to a whole range of changes of definitions and words and titles ultimately and commencements ultimately. It's this Government's intention that the exemption ends on 1 April. That was the last Government's intention and we're making the required changes to ensure that that happens as smoothly as possible.The Hon Julie Anne Genter proposed a new commencement that delays the bill until all vehicles pay RUC. This would mean there is no transition period. Ultimately what we're proposing to do here is to transition those vehicles into the system have a temporary RUC rate for plug-in hybrids to acknowledge the fact they use electricity and petrol whilst work is done to move all vehicles into a road-user charge system which will take more time. But in the meantime we believe it's fair that all vehicles using the road help contribute towards use of the road.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): I'm going to take a call from Arena Williams but I think we've just had a very comprehensive answer from the Minister around the Amendment Papers. So I'd like it to be something new please.