Jones Shane: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Jones Shane: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:656;Page:5756] 
6.  
Hon SHANE JONES (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: Does he stand by his statement: “It’s definitely a sort of inherent sort of institutionalised racism in that you’ve accepted one way of doing things and not respected another cultural norm. They have no right to do that and we will oppose that. I’ll oppose that as a Minister of New Zealand’s Government” and does he think that opposition to the Maori seats on the Auckland City Council is an example of “institutionalised racism”? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Attorney-General) 
on behalf of the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: Yes and no. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Will the Minister of Maori Affairs resign if the Government decides to exclude Maori seats from the Auckland Council or is he less passionate and principled about the issue than the Minister of Local Government Rodney Hide who has said bluntly that if the Government includes Maori seats he will hand in his ministerial warrant? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON 
: The Minister of Maori Affairs the Hon Dr Pita Sharples is passionate and competent and he believes strongly in the positions that he advances. He very much enjoys working with the National-led Government on those issues. 
Rahui Katene 
: Why does the Minister think that Maori representation on the Auckland Council is important? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON 
: The Minister’s view is that the guaranteed representation for either mana whenua or Maori is a necessary step to ensure that their voices are heard in Auckland city decision making. It is the Minister’s opinion that existing legislative provisions under the Local Electoral Act have proven to be ineffective in providing for Maori representation at the decision-making table. He also considers that there is a sound Treaty basis for this level of representation which recognises the special place of mana whenua and Maori in a 21st century New Zealand. 
Rahui Katene 
: How does the Minister define “institutional racism” and how can it be addressed in local government? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON 
: Institutional racism could be defined as the collective failure of an organisation to provide equitable opportunities benefits or advantages to different racial or ethnic groups of a society by neglecting to acknowledge that there are different cultural ways of being and doing that can and should be provided for. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Does the Minister stand by his statement: “The agreement that the Maori Party has with National is totally mana-enhancing. … and to not talk behind each other’s backs. We have an open honest policy. … and at all times there are no surprises”; if so can the Minister confirm that he and his colleagues knew about the email and were not surprised at all to find out about the backroom decision-making process of ACT and National? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON 
: The Minister can confirm that the Maori Party has a very open and honest relationship with the National-led Government. The Minister of Maori Affairs has a very good open and constructive relationship with the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations for example who is trying to make up for the shocking performance of the previous Government. They enjoy working together. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Why is the retention of the Minister’s own Maori seat a significant enough issue to be a bottom line in the Maori Party’s confidence and supply agreement with National but ensuring Maori representation in our communities is not? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON 
: The question is a nonsense. The Minister of Maori Affairs has fought and continues to fight very strongly on issues of Maori representation. In no way can his passionate stand on those principles derogate from his equally strong position about the importance of his own seat. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek your input. You have maintained a high level of standards. It is really both unnecessary and deprecating for the Minister to try to characterise this question which is very serious to the Maori community as being either foolish or stupid. I invite you to correct him. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I appreciate the point the honourable member has raised. I ask Ministers not to commence answers to questions with any kind of attack or put-down. Obviously when the question is shaped in such a way that the Minister feels it contains something of a put-down then it invites a bit of a response. But I ask Ministers to avoid initiating an answer in that manner. 
Hon Annette King 
: Does the Minister think that the following statement represents institutionalised racism: Maori seats on councils are a foolish preference pushed by a few white liberal people on the council who feel guilt? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON 
: Many statements have been made both for and against the position of Maori representation on the Auckland City Council. Some are more colourful than others. The Minister certainly would not rush to judgment about institutionalised racism on the basis of one statement. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: What is more mana-enhancing: having a flag blowing in the wind on the Auckland Harbour Bridge once a year or ensuring Maori representation in our largest city? 
Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON 
: Both are equally passionate positions that the Minister of Maori Affairs contends for. An equally mana-enhancing matter would be involvement in a National-led Government led by Prime Minister John Key.