Heatley Phil: General Debates 
Heatley Phil: General Debates 
[Volume:609;Page:6576] 
PHIL HEATLEY (NZ National—Whangarei) 
: 
 Is it not appalling that we see on the front page of the  
New Zealand Herald 
 eight Maori Labour members of Parliament two Ministers amongst them saying to Helen Clark “Stick it!”? They are saying that they are not putting up with what she has to say to New Zealand about foreshore and seabed and that they will play tough and walk out on her. Of those eight Maori Labour members of Parliament two are Maori Ministers who I understand have Cabinet responsibilities and they are saying to their leader Helen Clark: “Stick it! We’re not accepting this.” 
I will tell members why this has happened. As those eight Maori members of Parliament walk out on their leader Helen Clark she backpedals over public opinion and that is what happens when you run the country on focus groups— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member should not bring me into the debate. 
PHIL HEATLEY 
: I say to New Zealand that this Prime Minister runs the country on focus groups and it appears that the Maori Labour members of Parliament have had a gutsful of that. 
Those Maori Labour Party members of Parliament—who will not show up in this House today—think that the Labour Party will lead a committee that will engage with the Maori caucus to explore the definition application and implementation of Maoricustomary rights to the seabed and foreshore. They think there is going to be another hui. Well I will tell them what Helen Clark’s Minister Margaret Wilson said on the front page of the  
Northern Advocate. 
 She said there would be no hui. She said that the Crown would clarify that the seabed and the foreshore were owned by all New Zealanders in the form of the Crown. She said that everybody had always believed that that situation already existed but the Court of Appeal ruling had shown that the law was unclear. What Margaret Wilson and Helen Clark are saying to the nation is that the seabed and foreshore are not under threat. The Maori caucus is hearing from Helen Clark and Margaret Wilson that there will be more hui on the matter. Whom do we believe? The Labour Party caucus is all over the paddock on this issue. Its leader is backpedalling again against public opinion and that is happening simply because she is trying to run the country on focus groups. 
I do not know who is in most trouble—Margaret Wilson Helen Clark or the Minister of Fisheries Pete Hodgson. I remember that he had eight hui throughout this country to establish with Maori their rights with regard to the aquaculture law reforms. Would they get a slice of space when it came to marine farming? He had eight hui around the country. In that process he promised through a letter to Maori: “The process is to establish with specific considerations how appropriate Maori participation in the process can be ensured.” He said he “wanted to know a mechanism to preserve the Crown’s capacity to protect Maori interests”. He held eight meetings around the country to talk to Maori and I want to know whether he told them he was going to legislate over their rights. Did he tell them that or did Maori come back to him at those hui and say that they would love him to legislate over their rights?