Ardern Jacinda: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeArdern Jacinda: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 12 November 2015. Volume:710;Page:7976. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]11.JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by her statement when asked whether child poverty was too high in New Zealand that “it is very difficult to use one measure to determine poverty and hardship”?Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development): Yes.Jacinda Ardern: Can she confirm that her Government did just that and used one measure to determine poverty and hardship for her Government’s Budget package and it was the measure that produced the smallest number of children?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Quite the contrary. The Government looked at the considerable work produced by the Ministry of Social Development and of course it produced that annual report on household incomes. But we were very focused—and we are unapologetically very focused—on those children between 60000 and 100000 depending on where you draw the line who are experiencing the most severe hardship. In fact the $790 million package that formed the basis of Budget 2015 targeted 190000 children with the first increase in benefits in 43 years and the increase in Working for Families targets about 380000 children. That is almost half a million children in New Zealand who will be benefiting from this Government’s focus on reducing hardship.Jacinda Ardern: How did she determine that just 60000 to 100000 children in poverty needed her Government’s assistance when based on income measures there are 305000 children in poverty?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: The first thing I would say to that member is that we need to all be very careful when we use the term “poverty” that we actually know how we are defining that. There are a range of assumptions and judgments that are made in defining what poverty is. I will not go into them but I would suggest that members of the Opposition might like to read section E in the Ministry of Social Development’s 2015 household incomes report. What I would say to that member is that we looked at the accepted OECD range of hardship measures to determine those children on whom we were going to focus that part of the Budget package.Jacinda Ardern: How does she define child poverty?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: There are a range of decisions on key issues that would have a significant influence on how anyone would define poverty. It would be more time than the Speaker would allow me to go through what those are but I would say in my mind that I would use a range of measures both income-related—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. Members might not be interested in the answer but Jacinda Ardern certainly is interested in the answer. I cannot see how she could possibly hear with the din that is coming because I cannot hear. Would the member please complete her answer to the question.Jacinda Ardern: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think the Minister thinks she has completed her answer but I still did not feel like I came away with an answer to the simple question: how does she define child poverty?Mr SPEAKER: The way forward is to allow the Minister if she wants to add anything. If you think the Minister has completed—if the Minister wants to add any more? Then we will move to the next supplementary question.Jacinda Ardern: If her Government was not manipulating figures for the purpose of this Budget why did her Government remove one of the highest-scoring measures of material deprivation when it made its calculation for those 60000 children? It removed it from 17 measures of deprivation to 16 to make it more convenient.Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I completely—completely—disagree with the assertion of that member.Jacinda Ardern: I seek leave to table an Official Information Act document that demonstrates that the Minister removed whether or not—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! We do not need the latter part. Leave is sought—I just need the date of the—[Interruption] It is an Official Information Act document?Jacinda Ardern: The Official Information Act document is dated 2 November.Mr SPEAKER: 2 November. Leave is sought to table that particular document. Is there any objection? There is objection.