3. Question No. 3—Social DevelopmentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 3—Social Development3. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Is she satisfied with the high-level trends published in the September 2019 Ministry of Social Development fact sheets?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): All figures need to be considered in context. I am satisfied that exits into employment are up 13.3 percent the percentage of the working-age population on a main benefit is lower than it was five years ago under the previous Government our unemployment rate of 3.9 percent is at its lowest in over a decade NEET rates and youth payment and young parent payment are continuing to decrease we are investing in upskilling and training people expanding our public housing supply and bolstering our work-focused front-line staff to help more people into long-term employment. Is there more to do? Yes of course there is but I am confident that our Government is on the right track. Hon Louise Upston: How many more Māori and how many more Pacific people are on the jobseeker support benefit compared to when this Government took office? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I don't have the exact figure in front of me but what we do know is that those young people not in education employment and training—including Māori and Pacific—have reduced under this Government.Hon Louise Upston: Would she consider incorporating the policies of the previous Government when developing her Pacific people's strategy given that in the last three years of the National Government there was a reduction in the number of Pacific people on jobseeker support? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: There's very little from the previous Government that I would think of adopting on this side of the House. We do need to keep in mind that following the big welfare reforms that were adopted and implemented by the previous Government what we actually saw was this massive churn—within 18 months of people going off the benefit they were back on it. We are much more aspirational for New Zealanders than what they were. Hon Louise Upston: Is it aspirational to accept that 40 percent of people on the dole are Māori and that this is the highest proportion in over five years? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The reality is that for far too long Māori have been disproportionately underserved by the welfare system. We have implemented a very robust strategy with respect to how the Ministry of Social Development works with and for Māori. There is long-term work that needs to go on in this space; we are on the right track and I am confident about that. Hon Louise Upston: How does she explain that the number of Māori on the dole increased at twice the rate of New Zealand Europeans and Pacific people increased at three times the rate?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The member is being disingenuous because actually the outcomes with respect to employment the way in which the welfare system worked or didn't work for Māori under the previous Government was no better and I think that the member needs to acknowledge that. I will acknowledge that at the moment I think the number of New Zealanders on main benefit is just under 300000. I think at their peak it was about 350-something thousand.Hon Louise Upston: Does she stand by her statement in this House that and I quote If Māori and Pacific are better off so is New Zealand." and does it follow that where Māori and Pacific are worse off on the dole so is New Zealand?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What I stand by is the fact that as a Government we are focused on making sure that all New Zealanders have access to long-term meaningful and sustainable employment. We're not taking the approach that the previous Government took which was to just kick people off benefit with no regard for the fact that a large proportion were back on within 18 months. We know that moving forward as a country we need to make sure that New Zealanders are equipped with the skills to be able to take up the work that is here now and the work that will be here in the future which is why we are putting such an investment into upskilling and training through programmes like Mana in Mahi. We have a real vision for New Zealand and New Zealanders. It's a pity that for nine years there was none under that side.Hon Louise Upston: Why is she not doing more to get Mr Jones' nephs off the couch?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I don't personally know Mr Jones' nephs that are on the couch but what I do know is that the vast majority of young people in New Zealand want to work and need a Government that have faith in them. So unlike the previous Government—and can I refer to the Prime Minister of the time—we will not be giving up on young people. We will not be making speeches at public events where we say that young people are "pretty damned hopeless". We are investing in upskilling and training in all of the ways I've discussed in the House. We will continue to do that and I am unapologetic for that investment and that focus."