Collins JudithHon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura): The member who's resumed her seat—Ms Leary—has said inflation's caused by international problems—I think that's right. So I give you a couple of numbers: 2.9 percent.Hon Member: What's that?Hon JUDITH COLLINS: That's the current inflation rate of Switzerland. Apparently that's not an international country! I give you 1.9 percent; that's Japan. So there are a few countries that do not have rampant and raging inflation and those countries are ones that were very careful during the COVID lockdowns and were very careful with the money that they were borrowing. As we all know or we should know there was profligate wastage and excess from this Government. What has happened is of course that now inflation is at a level that we have not seen since the last time that the National Party had to take over from Labour. In fact I remember in 2008 when we took over actually the mortgage rates were 11 percent and I suggest that it is probably going to get that way by the time we have to take over in 2023.This bill does have some good points in it. I think it is important to note that we have essentially a duopoly around groceries and that is never a good thing. It is not good to see in shopping centres just one supermarket or one supermarket and no one else being allowed to sell anything that is also sold in those supermarkets. That is a very bad thing. It is anti-competitive and if the Commerce Commission had been awake to this they could have actually looked at it a very long time ago.It is also important to note as some of my colleagues on this side of the House have noted that actually during the first lockdown our local butchers our bakers actually the fruit and vege sellers—everybody who competed or competes with one of these big supermarkets got to close down except for dairies. Dairies were allowed for some particular reason. Now on that decision alone many of us as MPs took up these issues with the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment the ministry that was in charge of giving exemptions or not and we were told No; you can't have an exemption." We saw people—and I think of my own butcher who lost around $40000 worth of stock; people who knowing that there was going to be some form of lockdown were preparing for it to have the meat there.Dr Duncan Webb: Talk about the bill at any time!Hon JUDITH COLLINS: So the member on the other side doesn't want to talk about the people who lost their businesses does he? No. But these are the very people that we're told that this bill is going to help that it's going to suddenly have some sense in the marketplace. But we know and we've known for a long time that supermarkets have been in a very privileged position but they've been more so since the first of the lockdowns. That's because they were given special privileges that other providers of food couldn't have or actually just didn't have. They could have had it but they didn't have it because this big Government is more comfortable dealing with big business rather than small businesses owner occupied people who had to pay their rent whether they had money or not. What help they got was very little and they could have done with being able to open their doors rather than having their stock in landfill which is what actually happened. So when we look at this bill yes we will support this bill because it's better than nothing. But let's not kid ourselves that inflation is all being caused by international events otherwise Putin. It's not just that is it? It's also the spending that went on. It's not just because the Government has been borrowing and borrowing and wasting money. It's not just that the Government has put enormous costs on to businesses and particularly small businesses and made it really hard for people to even employ staff because staff aren't allowed into the country or haven't been able to for some time. It's nothing of that according to the Labour Party. It's all to do with Putin or international events. Well no it's not. It's actually a lot to do with their behaviour and their absolute paranoia around business. When I look at some of the supermarkets we're very aware that some supermarkets are said to use quite sharp dealing around some of their suppliers particularly Kiwi suppliers. Of course businesses make those decisions as to whether or not they'll supply to them because they want to be able to get the volume coming through. What we should also remember is that people in business and those who use them need choice. I see that Costco is starting up pretty soon and I'm told from my friends who go to Costco in Hawaii and other places that they will be travelling to—I think your electorate isn't it Mr Penk?—your electorate. I'm possibly not going to be doing that. I'll go wherever possible and support the smaller businesses because I know what it's like to be in business and I know how hard it is to have people saying "I'm just going to go to the cheapest." Sometimes it's best to go to people who really care about the produce that they're presenting to you and they do their very best. I think about the people who have fish shops those people—people who had their own boats for fish shops and they couldn't open. I mean these are the sorts of decisions that actually are going to have years and years of implications for families.So do we support this bill? Yes. Is it the be all and end all? No. But I saw just the other day that somebody in Southland had used Amazon to get groceries from Australia. Is that right? I think I remember that. If that is so and I'm sure it is right it just shows us all the cost of actually going to the supermarket. I do the grocery shopping at home and I find that the grocery shopping is a good way of remembering the price of everything. So I do try and use the smaller places like the butchers and the fish shop and the fruit and vege shop. But I also have to go to the supermarket for certain things and I have noticed the extreme increase in price in just the last six months. What they tell me the people who own them and run them is that a lot of it has to do with the extra costs put on by the Government yes and the fuel costs—the fuel costs in particular—because transport costs have gone through the roof. People are finding it very difficult to be able to keep their costs down if they're having to truck produce across town in Auckland they're stuck in traffic—it all adds to the cost. There is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to groceries. Someone is paying and that someone is always the consumer. So when the Government is happily giving away days here or adding costs here or giving somebody else an increase—Dr Duncan Webb: Point of order Mr Speaker. The member's just ranged far and wide. Speakers' rulings—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie): No; with due respect if you read the bill the member is referring to quite a number of items in the bill quite frequently.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Thank you Mr Speaker. Of course when we look at the grocery sector that this is all about regulating and the Commerce Act I say to the member who's resumed his seat: if he doesn't want to listen then leave because I am very happy to give him rendition for the next 10 minutes if the Speaker would only give me permission which I will not actually ask for because it's not all about me unlike the member who was so objectionable. I think it is really important when we look at the Commerce Act to realise we've had it since 1986. I think the last time I spoke on the Commerce Act I pointed out that I did one of my dissertations on the Commerce Act and the Minister in charge of the bill said "Well that was 1986." And I said yes it was and I did. So it's been around for a while. I think the ComCom as it's called now—the Commerce Commission—has often been seen as not having enough teeth or enough funding or enough something or rather or a will to live. I think it is important that we look at it and think—you know in the anti-trust legislation that we see in some parts of the United States and others sometimes some of us look at it and think well that might be useful. I mean this was the New Zealand answer to it the 1986 Act. But the problem is it doesn't solve the problems that a Government can visit upon people and it doesn't solve the fact that fuel costs are higher. It doesn't solve any of that. Yes this will go some way but it is only a little way. It is the right thing to do but it is certainly not the whole thing that could be done. For a start the Government could start being upfront about where's the inflation coming from and what part they've had in it because I think Switzerland and Japan are still part of our world. Thank you."