Wagner Nicky; Dyson RuthHon NICKY WAGNER (National): Thank you Madam Speaker. This is an interesting bill. There's no doubt about it we should not be smoking in cars. If we want to look after our young children's health—anybody's health actually—we shouldn't be smoking in cars but it's unfortunate that we actually have to bring this bill. It is such an obvious thing to anyone that's involved in smoking and who has any knowledge at all about the effects of smoking that of course you wouldn't smoke in your car. It's a shame that we have to spend time on this because I think one of the issues about this is how you enforce it. If people are still smoking in their cars when they understand the dangers of doing that for their children it's very difficult to enforce that. We have seen around the world other police forces are tending to take a deep breath when they see somebody smoking in their car and to perhaps have a discussion with them which is a good thing because anybody who is smoking in their cars with young people is obviously addicted to smoking and really needs help rather than prosecution. I would like to echo what Dan Bidois said. I would far rather be sitting in this House tonight debating a bill that regulates vaping. We've got to the stage where if we want to achieve Smokefree 2025 we really have to make sure that people have options to give up smoking. What we've got left in our community is people who find it really difficult to quit and there's very strong communities that find that difficult. We need to give them all the support and all the resource to help them quit. One of those resources is regulating vaping. Now the issue that we have with vaping is: how do we get the balance right? We want to encourage anybody who is a smoker to quit and to use vaping to quit is a good option. For people who haven't been able to quit any other way and who've tried every other option—they've tried abstinence and they've tried nicotine patches they've tried every kind of way to give up smoking—vaping often is the answer for them. So we want anybody who smokes now to attempt to vape to quit. But what we don't want is young people taking up vaping. We understand that vaping is up to 95 percent less harmful than smoking but we still don't want our young people taking it up. If you don't smoke you shouldn't vape. So how do we promote vaping to people who are smokers to help them quit while not encouraging young people to take up vaping? Actually it's interesting. The research that's come out most recently has said that even though young people do try to vape very few of them actually continue to do it regularly particularly on a daily basis. That makes sense. Young people are absolutely wired to take risks—to do things that their elders don't approve of. So I would far prefer if it were my children that they tried vaping than smoking. The key issue here is not to get too frightened about children taking up vaping because the chances are that if they weren't vaping they'd be trying to fag behind the bike sheds. So the key issue here is how do we help people quit smoking by trying vaping and to support them with vaping and how do we make sure that that balance is right so we don't encourage young people to vape? I think if we reflect on what's happening around the world we have the UK which has had vaping for about at least a decade or maybe 12 years. They've had good strong regulations around that and they don't seem to have had any problems whereas we look at places like the US which had very little regulation and they've got all sorts of issues there and problems that have come because there are no controls. Now my bill which I developed when I was the Associate Minister of Health and I do have to point out that back in 2017—it seems a long time ago now; about May 2017—the National Cabinet passed a paper that endeavoured to produce that bill for Parliament. That bill was written up and it was ready to go. If we'd been in Government it would have been in the House much earlier than it is today. I took that Cabinet paper. I worked with that Cabinet paper to create a member's bill which is sitting in the ballot. The people who wrote that Cabinet paper are the same people that are advising the Minister of Health today about vaping. So I would like to suggest that we should take up that bill that we should use it and we should get regulation in New Zealand because at the moment it's the wild west. At the moment young people have got the ability to vape with no rules around it. If we have clear regulations to make sure that we look after the quality of not only the vaping implements but also the vaping juice I think we would protect young people so I ask the Minister to please get some regulations around vaping. I'm very happy for her to use my bill. Thank you. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): This is a split call.