7. Question No. 7—EducationERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays) to the Minister of EducationQuestion No. 7—Education7. ERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays) to the Minister of Education: What was the percentage of time associated with unjustified absences in term 3 2019 compared to term 3 2022 and has the percentage of time associated with unjustified absences increased over that period?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): For 93.5 percent of the time during term 3 2022 students were either present or away from school for a justifiable reason such as illness. For 6.5 percent of that time students were unjustifiably absent when measured as half-days. For 95 percent of the time during term 3 2019 students were either present or away from school for a justifiable reason. For 5 percent of the time students were unjustifiably absent when measured as half-days. Due to COVID-19 all absences went up but proportionately more absences were justified; in other words proportionately when you look at the total time spent in the classroom more absences were due to justifiable reasons in term 3 between 2019 and 2022.Erica Stanford: Point of order Mr Speaker. I asked a very specific question on notice about the percentage of time associated with unjustified absences. The Minister has given me a completely different number comparing the percentage of unjustified absences to justified absences and that is not what I asked for.SPEAKER: I think the member is going to have to accept the form that the Minister has given the answer in because the information does address the question.Erica Stanford: Why did the Minister say in this House on 23 February that Unjustified absence is dropping rapidly between 2019 to now" when the official data shows that unjustified absences have climbed to the highest ever percentage recorded in term 3 2022?Hon JAN TINETTI: Because as I said in my first answer all absences went under COVID-19 but proportionately more absences were justified. In other words proportionately when you look at the total time spent in the classroom more absences were due to justified reasons in term 3 between 2019 and 2022. What I will say is that I do appreciate that attendance data is complicated and does often use different basis for talking about the same thing. Therefore I have asked officials to consider what the best way of describing student attendance is so that we can all understand where the real issues are and focus on making improvements.Erica Stanford: Who is correct: the Ministry of Education in their term 3 attendance report who said "There was an increase in the percentage of time associated with unjustified absences in term 3 between 2019 and 2022" or the Minister of Education who said "Unjustified absence is dropping rapidly between 2019 to now"?Hon JAN TINETTI: If the member reads the same report she will also see that the Ministry of Education say that proportionately when you look at the total time spent in the classroom more absences were due to justified reasons in term 3 between 2019 and 2022.Erica Stanford: Are there more children taking unjustified absences in 2022 compared to 2019?Hon JAN TINETTI: As I've said due to COVID-19 there are more children taking absences full stop but the proportion between the two shows that there are more justified absences. This is a really pleasing trend.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order. That could not possibly have addressed the question. Mrs Stanford was very clear that she was talking about unjustified absences and the answer referred only to justified absences.Hon David Parker: With respect to the Hon Michael Woodhouse it didn't and she answered the question in the first part of her answer.SPEAKER: In my opinion—I'm going to give the member an additional supplementary but it's not in punishment to the Minister because I think the Minister has provided the information but in the interest of the House knowing I will allow Erica Stanford to have an extra question.Erica Stanford: Why is it that when she was shown this graph by a journalist yesterday and asked if she accepted that the unjustified absences had increased since 2019 she said no?Hon JAN TINETTI: Because as I'm trying to explain here we're talking about two different data sets and one data set shows something very very different but the same thing. Now I know that sounds confusing which is why I'm talking about proportionality of the absences as a whole. When you see and look at the proportion of total time kids were in the classroom in term 3 2022 there were more justifiable absences than in term 3 2021 and in fact 2019. That is a promising trend.Erica Stanford: Can she finally admit that the total number can increase even though the percentage as she explains is decreasing?Hon JAN TINETTI: As I've said—I'll repeat what I've said: absences—absences—overall in COVID are greater. I've said that three times now.David Seymour: Is the Minister trying to say that the bad news is more kids are missing school but the good news is it's justified?Hon JAN TINETTI: Of course during COVID when people have been sick you are going to get more people who are going to be absent from school.Erica Stanford: Why is she spending her time trying to manipulate the data to desperately try and show that unjustified absences are declining when the Ministry of Education—SPEAKER: Order! I don't think the member can ask the question which implies that the Minister is lying or in this case you used the word "manipulating"—tantamount to saying that you're making it up.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order Mr Speaker. You may well be correct and I'm not challenging that the question may have been out of order but to rule it out of order on the basis that the member was accusing the Minister of lying is I think quite a long bow to be drawing. Now as you know that is a serious breach of the Standing Orders and I think it might have been better to use a different term.SPEAKER: That might be so but I've made my ruling.Erica Stanford: Shall I reword that question Mr Speaker?SPEAKER: No that question is gone.Erica Stanford: Why did she say yesterday "I almost need a whiteboard to explain it to you because it's so complicated." when comparing percentage figures is a skill that's taught at year 8?Hon JAN TINETTI: Because the way when you are using two different data sets is obviously really difficult to understand—to compare the two. The data systems need work to be more accurate and efficient. That means they need investment which is why we're putting in $7.7 million over three years to do just that. This will fund experts who'll be assigned to work directly with schools and communities to improve the quality understanding and the use of attendance data."