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Bishop Chris; Woods MeganCHRIS BISHOP (National): I thank the Minister for those answers. This raises a slightly interesting issue which is what is the Government's intention when it comes to tenancy reviews because the reality is there are around 2500 people in Kāinga Ora houses—and indeed in community housing provider houses too actually—who pay market rents. They earn enough that they can afford to pay market rents. From memory I have an answer from the Minister from I think a year or so ago saying that tenancy reviews had been paused during COVID—which I think is fair enough—and that no decision had yet been made on restarting them. I think it is true that between 2018 and 2019 there was a process of tenancy reviews. So I wonder if the Minister could give us an update on tenancy reviews and what the Government's intention is in relation to them. Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): Thank you. That is work that the Government is undertaking at the moment about how and where you'd restart those tenancy reviews and you can look to particular cohorts within that. Obviously that was work that did need to stop during COVID for a number of reasons not least of all the capacity of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) staff in terms of the fact that we had a number of calls on our MSD staff and reviewing tenancies wasn't the highest priority during that. But Ministers including the Associate Minister for Social Development who has responsibility for the waiting list the Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan—we have been talking amongst Ministers around how it is that we'd get that process of the tenancy review started. For us as Ministers that is absolutely critical because if we have tenants who are living in Kāinga Ora homes and earning too much to qualify for the income-related rent subsidy they of course by legislation are not eligible to apply for the accommodation supplement so the family could indeed be worse off than if they were in the private market and were eligible for an accommodation supplement. So this is work that is under way at the moment.
Woods MeganHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): Thank you Madam Chair. I'd like to acknowledge my three colleagues that are in the House and who will also contribute to this debate I'm sure. We are very much a housing team. The Hon Barbara Edmonds the Hon Marama Davidson and the Hon Willie Jackson are incredibly passionate and dedicated Ministers of housing also and I'd like to thank them for the work they do. In regard to the question that Chris Bishop the member who's just taken his seat has posed around the number 81000 by 2024 in terms of the number: yes that is correct. The chair of the select committee was correct. At the moment just for the member's edification as of 30 June 2023 we had 79539 homes but of course houses and publicly funded houses are two separate things. One we're talking about a physical count—roof count—of houses; the other we're talking about households that are attracting income-related rent subsidised (IRRS) funding. It is not uncommon for Kāinga Ora (KO) tenants to move in and out of IRRS eligibility at any given point. It may be seasonal work that underlies that in terms of their income and where that sits. So of course there will also be houses that are vacant because they are undergoing repair or retrofit. Also the people that I've talked about that are earning enough of course they're earning enough to not attract—the IRRS is not a fixed point in time. It can differ over a period of over a year or over a matter of months for people. In terms of the emergency housing reset the member is correct. On 12 December 2022 Cabinet agreed to improvements to the emergency housing system. That was the reset and redesign work and that is providing a pathway to achieving the Government's long-term vision with 10 actions over 12 to 18 months. This is obviously a package of work that has a large intersection with Minister Davidson's work stream with her being the Associate Minister that is responsible for the Homelessness Action Plan and for the work that the Government is undertaking to address homelessness. We have seen very much the need for this work to be place-based. We have identified the need for us to be working with local councils local community groups and local iwi to make sure that we've got those emergency settings fit for purpose for the places that we are working in. So developing regional delivery plans is absolutely critical to getting those alternatives to the emergency housing special needs grant accommodation right and then of course those points that have been identified are Hamilton City and Wellington where we know that there is need for us to do that. But we are determined to make sure that we are doing that in a way that makes sense for those regions.
Bishop ChrisCHRIS BISHOP (National): Thank you very much Madam Chair. We had a good session in the Social Services and Community Committee and I thank the chair of the select committee for that update. I've got a number of questions which we'll canvass in the first hour but I just want to pick up on something that the chair of the committee said. I think she said that we heard from the Minister that by 2024 the aim was to have 81000—I think she said 81000—Angie Warren-Clark: Approximately—yeah.CHRIS BISHOP: —approximately 81000 people in public housing. Angie Warren-Clark: No 81000 houses.CHRIS BISHOP: 81000 houses?Angie Warren-Clark: Yes.CHRIS BISHOP: OK—all right. Well I was going to ask if that's true why—well actually I can ask that because I'm just looking at the Budget documents which we're examining which is Vote Housing and Urban Development at page 111 of the Estimates of Appropriations for the social services and community sector and the number of tenancies subsidised by income-related rent subsidy (IRRS) will be at least—the Budget standard for 2022-23 so the year just gone was estimated to be 75500. The estimated actual was 74700. The Budget standard for 2023-24 which is the year that the member is talking about is 77500. That's quite a disparity between the 81000 mentioned by the member and what the Budget actually appropriates. So maybe an initial question for the Minister is: is that 81000 figure correct because this the purchase of public housing provision non-departmental output expenses and the number of tenancies subsidised by an income-related rent subsidy. So anyway perhaps we can hear a little more about that.The other thing I wanted to raise just as an initial starting point was in relation to the emergency housing reset which was funded in Budget 2022 and it provides from memory over $300 million for that. Now my figures might be slightly out of date but I asked the Minister a written question around this maybe six weeks or eight weeks or so ago. Very little of that money has so far been drawn down and the answer I've got says that $620000 has been spent on the reset in the early stage and another $1.6 million contracted. But that was a year or so ago that it was announced—in fact it's over a year or so ago or at least the money was appropriated a year-or-so ago. We had to wait till the end of last year to find out exactly what was happening.So I suppose there are two questions. The first question is around the IRRS purchase provision and then the second question is around the emergency housing reset and just what's happening with that because not a lot of money has so far been drawn down. A lot of money has been appropriated but not a lot of money has been drawn down. That's just an initial starting point. Thank you Madam Chair.
Dean JacquiHousingCHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Members we now have the Minister of Housing. The Minister is available from just before 5 to just before 6.
Swarbrick Chlöe; Tinetti JanCHLÖE SWARBRICK (Green—Auckland Central): Just with the final few minutes as democratically allocated to me by the Greens in our process for Estimates I was just wondering as others have in pointing out issues in the state of the school buildings at their local schools if I could just address with the Minister given this opportunity in the committee to do so—the Minister may be aware of quite a lot of correspondence both with her office as the new fulsome Minister of Education but also with the former Minister around issues with the school building portfolio at Richmond Road School in my electorate of Auckland Central. There's quite substantive issues there and I want to acknowledge principal Whaea Jacqui for all the work that she's done as well as the board of trustees. But I was wondering if the Minister could enlighten the committee or give us any insight or information into just what the hold-up is there. It appears as though the challenge has been a kind of changing of the chairs and the guard constantly with Ministry of Education officials at the front line which has made it really difficult to get a foothold on how things are progressing with the master plan and requisite investment.Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): I have to come back to the member on that one but can I talk about the higher education funding review; you talked about the dual options there—we will consider a wide range of options but it won't be a carbon copy of the unified funding scheme or the review process. So you know we haven't got a set idea there at this point in time.
Simmonds Penny; Potaka Tama; Tinetti JanPENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you Minister for giving a little bit of information about the unified funding scheme (UFS) IT system but I note you didn't give a total cost. However I just want to check with the Minister: are you intending to continue running a dual funding scheme or are you intending to roll out or extend the UFS to degree and above - qualifications?TAMA POTAKA (National—Hamilton West): One final question: I've had the great chance to attend a unit for teen parents and in that unit for teen parents there's some real concern about housing and the dangers that most of those teen parents have living in emergency housing. And I'm wondering whether or not there's any evidence gathering that's undertaken across all the teen parent units in the country around the state of play of their housing situation especially for young women who are 13- and 14-years-olds living in emergency—thank you.Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Can I just go back to your—I've just found some information on the Melville site. So Melville School: there is an establishment board of trustees (EBOT) in place for the new combined school. The new site will be taken over in January 2024 working with the EBOT on the master plan property which will inform future property and funding needs. So that's the establishment board of trustees is what we're saying there.
Baillie Chris; Tinetti JanCHRIS BAILLIE (ACT): Thank you Madam Chair. Minister the arbitration panel for the Post Primary Teachers' Association (PPTA) dispute has come back with a recommendation of 14.5 percent which is I understand going to be taken to Cabinet. Do you have an idea of how much that is going to cost and where that's going to come from? How will that settlement affect the recent NZEI settlement if at all?The panel wasn't terribly complimentary about the ministry's negotiating skills. I just wonder whether you think the ministry may have the lost confidence of the PPTA—or if teachers even have lost confidence in the ministry?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Now once again there's not a lot I can say about that because that will have to go through and be taken through to Cabinet decisions but that is currently being worked through.What I can say is the member asked about consequences to the NZEI negotiations. Anything that changes in the unified base scale at the secondary has an impact on the primary which then has an impact on kindergarten collective agreement rates. So there is parity from the secondary basically down in that respect.I'm not sure that I agree with the member's characterisation of what the arbitration panel is saying which is something that I've been saying to the unions and to the ministry and the ministry agrees with us which is we possibly once we get through this period need to look at whether negotiation processes as they stand at the moment are fit for purpose for 2023 and beyond and are there better ways that we can be doing this? Because this is something that I think both sides agree with—is that they want to sort this out without the need for getting to the point of industrial action or the prolonged nature of it. It is a traditional way that has been negotiated but many unions are changing the way that they are negotiating and we will have those discussions with the union. The unions are well aware of that going forward after we've got this through and we've got these settlements signed.But that's as much as I can say on those because of the fact that it does have to go through to Cabinet.
Swarbrick Chlöe; Tinetti JanCHLÖE SWARBRICK (Green—Auckland Central): I thank the Minister the Hon Jan Tinetti for those considered and thoughtful responses to that line of questioning. I guess just to dig into this stuff a little bit more it's really interesting to hear about that advice that is being commissioned and going up to Cabinet with regard to network provision—and there I'm assuming that it's about the kind of course provision that's available and the diversity of that course provision but also hopefully the capacity and the skillset in this country to deliver those courses and their geographical distribution of course.I guess just to that effect if we can be crystal clear on what that paper may be capable of actually achieving. Is it the case given those cuts that are presently on the table that there is the potential here for the Government to step in and to for example issue some kind of for lack of a better term moratorium on those cuts to delay them or to provide some other form of funding model whether that be through I don't know leveraging or changes to the way that the Tertiary Education Commission is able to issue debt or otherwise? Is there any hope for those students and those staff who gathered on Parliament's lawn today to have a kind of quite dramaturgic funeral for the tertiary education sector? Is there any way that they can meaningfully engage with that process? And is there potential of more support or more engagement or a creative solution here coming down the pipeline?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): I know this is going to be a bit frustrating but I can't get in front of the advice that is coming through to me. I can't go into it other than to say that I have engaged with the Victoria University of Wellington Students' Association president and executive as well and my door is open to them and continue to engage to just hear first hand. But can I also once again thank the member Chlöe Swarbrick for the advocacy for bringing those through—and I quite mean that: I really do appreciate what you're doing in that space too.
Stanford Erica; Tinetti JanERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Thank you Madam Chair. I just want to finish up on the school lunch question because I asked quite a specific question and got a long answer but not actually the answer I was looking for which is around the data. What data and evidence is there to suggest an improvement in achievement and kids turning up at school?The Minister mentioned that there are three evaluations done and she mentioned one particular programme. I want to know overall in those evaluations—given that we've been running now for a wee while—is there any evidence to support that kids are achieving better or turning up to school more regularly because of the school lunch programme? So data" as she likes to talk about as she likes to follow—like we all do. What do those evaluations say? Has she seen anything else that suggests that overall there is a lift in achievement or attendance because of the school lunch programme?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): You asked about the evaluations and the data that we're collecting and I did talk about those three evaluations but the different evaluations that we've done are focusing on different areas. I will talk about the 2022 evaluation and the 2023 evaluation.The 2022 evaluation showed that the young people at those schools are happier healthier and have a higher quality of nutrition which means that when they're healthier they again—you know those of us that have worked particularly in those areas that are low - socio-economic areas know that when those young people get sick they get very sick and so attendance becomes really difficult and really patchy in some of those areas. But what is happening is that they are having healthier outcomes because of the high-quality nutrition and they are happier so they are wanting to be more engaged in their schooling and their learning as well.The 2023 evaluation showed that there are improved outcomes for Māori learners through the iwi-led initiatives which is why I linked the two answers before—because we are seeing that those iwi-led initiatives are showing improved outcomes for our Māori learners."
Potaka Tama; Tinetti JanTAMA POTAKA (National—Hamilton West): Hamilton West is a beautiful place and there's some great schools over there and I think the Minister would have visited a couple of those schools. A couple of Hamilton West-specific questions. Melville High School and Melville Intermediate School are going to combine soon into a facility called Mangakōtukutuku and they've been living in prefabs that are 60 years old. There was an indicative commitment to help with the capital expenditure support to actually refurbish all these classrooms—60-year-old prefabs—and just wondering where we got to where the Ministry has got to with actually supporting Mangakōtukutuku to get new classrooms and not live in 60-year-old prefabs?The other topic that I just wanted to mention or ask about was the establishment of a new school in a suburb called Glenview or Peacocke in Hamilton because that place is absolutely booming and we've got massive transport issues carrying kids all over the city from those suburbs to get to school. Thank you.Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Just going to see—because they're quite specific questions so I've got people looking at those. But I just wanted to go back to your question about St Stephen's. The Government has considered one application from St Stephen's and any further application may be considered and we need to take into account the costs and other factors as well so that's where we're at with St Stephen's at this point in time.I just wanted to touch on that last part of that question not that I've got a specific answer to that just yet about Peacocke—Tama Potaka: Glenview and Peacocke.Hon JAN TINETTI: Glenview and Peacocke. Look Hamilton is one of our growth areas that have been identified so that will be work that will be going on. The good part I'd say—the good factor about what's happening in that property space and those growth areas is that we have identified where those growth areas are. So there's a—it's a plan.It's not just a hit and miss. It's looking at exactly where those growth areas are but that those two specific areas we can come back to you on.
Simmonds Penny; Tinetti Jan; Potaka Tama; Stanford EricaPENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Thank you Madam Chair. Minister the Tertiary Education Commission's (TEC) development and delivery of an IT system to deliver the unified funding system—I wonder if you could tell us: has it finally been scoped costed and a time frame given for that and if so how much has been spent already and what proportion the $7.85 million is of it?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): I'll get back to the member with that information.TAMA POTAKA (National—Hamilton West): I've got three questions Madam Chair for the Minister: one on achievement one on attendance and one on establishment.Now the year on year of performance of Māori students in NCEA 2 improved between 2011 and 2017. It went from 53.1 percent to 68.9 percent and now it's regressed to 58.6 percent. In addition the university entrance achievement by Māori in 2021 was only 19 percent and I'd like to know from the Minister—the achievement question—what messages is the Minister giving to iwi and Māori leaders on how the education will improve the achievement by Māori students—those young mokopuna and cherished tamariki.ERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Thank you Madam Chair. It's good to see some questions being asked around the school lunch programme. My question for the Minister is: why was it in this Budget that the healthy lunch programme was only funded for one more year given all of her comments that she just made around how great she thinks it is?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): I'll come back to the member over there too; I'm just finding the figures as well so I will come back to that. But I just wanted to say I was quite open about this at the time of the Budget and I was quite open in the select committee about it as well. We had competing initiatives in this Budget. It is a big investment and so we were able to fund it till the end of 2024 but it is something that I continue to keep working on and advocating for.
Sosene Lemauga Lydia; Tinetti JanLEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour): Thank you Madam Chair. Kia orana Minister. We know the impact on families around the motu to do with cost of living issues because we know children that are hungry can be a major impediment to learning. Minister can you outline please the importance or evidence of extending the Ka Ora Ka Ako Healthy School Lunches programme and how this ties into supporting families through the cost of living crisis?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): The Healthy School Lunches programme is something that I am incredibly proud of that this Government is making a difference to those young people. I do go around schools in many cases—I know members in this Chamber all go around too—and see and hear exactly the same stories back of the difference it is making to young people. One of the key areas that I hear is that food security in those schools is no longer an issue; that young people don't get anxious about the fact that they don't have lunch in their bags that they don't get anxious and cause issues around the lunch time because everybody is getting that. They don't feel ashamed. Someone that has been in schools—I know that we used to provide lunches but of course we could only provide to those young people that didn't have them. It was always this tension because you knew that young people felt that sense of shame as well that they didn't have a lunch. This is a great way to know that those young people don't sense that emotion and that shame any more.One of the key areas that I love hearing is that afternoons are no longer a dead time for learning; that young people have that food in their tummies and that afternoon is actually just as important for learning time as what the morning is. I just think that the amount of time that we've given back to kids for their learning just through this is worth it alone. So it is helping families. Recently in the last recess I had a mum come up to me at another event that I was at who said to me You'll never know the difference that that's made to my family. I've got money now that I can spend on providing dinner." I had a teacher who came up to me—at that same event—and said "I've got kids now who come and say to me that they don't have to decide who has dinner at night time because they don't have to spend that money on providing lunches that they can provide it for dinner and the difference that that's making is immeasurable for those families." You know these are kids that are excited about being at school and excited about their learning but their families are excited because they've got more disposable income to use in other areas to support their families as well."
Baillie Chris; Tinetti JanCHRIS BAILLIE (ACT): Thank you Madam Chair. Just to change the subject a little bit we all know how important attendance is for achievement. We talk a lot about truancy and kids not attending. Yet we still have to wait until November for term 2's attendance data. I wondered whether any work was being done to improve the receiving of that information. A month or two ago we talked about technology not being available to some schools and that is a reason one of the over 200 schools that don't present the data—that technology unavailability was a reason for not putting the data in. I wonder if that is still the case.Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Interestingly enough that's a question that I've asked officials about; why it takes so long with that data—the term 2 data. The member knows this too: July is one of the critical and key points for data collection on attendance. Because of that there is a lot more work to go through. This is the answer that I was given this week: because of that amount that has to be done from the July return then it does take them a lot longer to do that work because they're also working through 2024 rolls. All of those things come from that data which is why it takes that long to work through that.
Stanford Erica; Tinetti JanERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): I'd like to go back to some of the answers given in question time today around the achievement of Māori students in NCEA level 2. The Minister claimed today as an excuse for this that many Māori students or many students are leaving for work for further education for apprenticeships or they're travelling overseas. My first question to the Minister is: what kind of employment does she expect that a child without NCEA level 2 will be able to go into? And what sort of future will they have in the job market without NCEA level 2?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): I wouldn't say it was an excuse as the member Erica Stanford has just said that to be. That is the reason why young people are leaving at this point in time and we do know that we have high employment rates at this point in time. Of course we know that the pandemic has put this stress on families and we know that different demographics haven't had an even experience during the pandemic as well. This isn't just in this country; this is across the globe. This is something that my counterparts in other OECD countries have highlighted as one of their key issues that they are also facing as well.We also know that an education is really important for a young person to be able to make choices. If the member had listened carefully to the question before that question in today's question time that was my last statement: I said as I have always said education gives choices and choices are important for people to be able to have different pathways in life as well. At no time am I ever saying that it is acceptable when young people leave school without NCEA or without qualifications.We also know that there are other pathways and I also pointed out to this House today that the NCEA in school is not the only way that those young people can get those qualifications. We know that Youth Guarantee funding has been increased to enable people to reengage and get those qualifications. That is one of the reasons why this Government has increased that Youth Guarantee funding: so that when they are leaving school those pathways haven't been closed off for them; that they are able to enter in.I know that the member also goes visiting like I do into some of those areas. I've seen some amazing opportunities recently for young people. In fact I was at one on Friday where young people were very excited about the increase in opportunities for them to carry on with their education and to get those qualifications. I'm really proud of the fact that yes we know that there are people who might be leaving without it but we're putting those opportunities in place so that we're not taking those choices away; that those young people will have those choices available to them throughout their education lifespan.
Simmonds Penny; Tinetti JanPENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): The pay parity funding for the centres in particular the early childhood education centres—much has been said within the sector about how the paucity of pay parity funding from the Government is likely to increase fees or is likely to increase or make the ratios worse in the sector. Can the Minister give some more certainty to the sector around pay parity funding so they can be sure it's not going to impact negatively on either the centres or families with children in the centres.Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): So thank you pay parity is very important that we acknowledge that a teacher is a teacher no matter what sector they are working within. It is something that this Government has been committed to right from its outset. We are absolutely committed to achieving pay parity between certificated teachers in education and care services and the kindergarten teachers as the member has said. Of course this does reflect the action 3.4 in the Early Learning Action Plan. So one of the aspects that the Government set out to do first was to work through that Early Learning Action Plan so that we were making certain that we had targeted responses in the early learning sector to some of their biggest issues. But also to make certain that we're putting the young person at the centre—to make certain that we're well remunerating those well-qualified teachers within those centres because we know that they make a huge difference to those young children. So Budget 2023—and I'll just get my figure here—provided $321.6 million over four years to education and care services through a third opt in funding rate and that is the third of the opt in funding rates. It disperses this funding through new funding rates full pay parity rates for education and care services that attests to paying teachers with relevant qualifications and experiences at least the kindergarten teachers' collective agreement steps 1 to 11. At the time those rates were $51358 to $90000 but of course we do know that there has been a collective agreement in the kindergarten teachers' agreement that has been settled since then. And paying in that too back then it was paying managers a minimum salary of $94175. These full pay parity rates matched the kindergarten funding rates and will be available from 1 November 2023. So we can tell and we have been in contact with—the Ministry have been in contact with the sector to ensure those people that are going to be in those parts of the sector that are going to be opting in to that level that those rates will be available and they have those rates with them now as in they know what they are.PENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): So the options that are being put to the centres by the Ministry have they got figures in them to allow the centres to model the impact on them at this stage?
Simmonds Penny; Tinetti JanPENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Thank you Madam Chair. Early childhood education (ECE) the early childhood sector and particularly the home-based providers—the Minister will be aware that over 50 home-based providers closed between January and May this year. I'd like to know what the Minister plans for this sector and whether she has made any provision for increases given that home-based ECE is limited to a ratio of one to four but when the children turn over two years old home-based get a reduction a significant reduction yet they can't increase their ratios in the way that centre-based provision can. So what provision is she making for securing home-based providers and provision in the sector?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Madam Chair thank you and thank you for that question although it's a little bit premature in some respects because we're well aware of the issues and I think everybody's well aware of the issues that home-based are facing at this point in time. I will say that my Associate Minister the Hon Jo Luxton has had some really good discussions with members from the early childhood education community over the short time that she has been Associate Minister and in that role. We have sought advice from home-based around home-based and what we can be doing there. We're currently working through that advice. We do not want to leave home-based so that they are feeling unsupported but we also want to make certain that we get it right within the context of the total provision and the total network within the country.We absolutely understand the importance of them within the network which is one of the reasons why we are committed to this work and working through it with some urgency as well. I know that's a little bit frustrating but I will say to the member that when we do have that advice and when we have made those decisions and we are able to go public on them she will be one of the first to know.PENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Thank you Madam Chair. Just the rate of closures of home-based provision—as I said over 50 in the five months at the start of this year—the home-based sector is concerned by the end of the year there may be no home-based provision that isn't cross-subsidised by centre provision. So is the Minister able to give some sort of indication of timing and amounts of funding? Because the word we are getting from the home-based providers is that by the end of this year there will be none left.Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Which is why we're working in some haste through the advice that we have been given. We do know that closures do happen for a variety of reasons. We have also made certain that we're looking into those variety of reasons. It's not just around the funding although that is a main reason as well. But we are making certain that we are not causing unintended consequences in the decision making that we are taking at this time.
Stanford Erica; Little Andrew; O'Connor GregERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Thank you Mr Chair. In light of the answers to the patsy question that the Minister gave in question time today around wanting to see more skilled workers in New Zealand I'd like to read him out a quote from the Immigration Reset: Setting the scene" speech which says "Increasingly [the] temporary workers [previously coming into New Zealand] are at lower skill levels—nearly half of all Essential Skills visas approved in 2019 were at the two lowest skill levels." So my question to the Minister is: with the new Accredited Employer Work Visa (AEWV) system that's been in place for a year and given his desire to bring in more skilled workers what is the percentage now of those AEWV workers being on skill levels 1 and 2?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Immigration): Mr Chairman thank you for that. To the member I cannot quantify what that is in terms of skill level but the whole reason for setting a minimum income level median wage level is to incentivise employers to employ higher skill levels than would otherwise be the case. That is an objective of this scheme and one of the concerns that this Government had picked up from many people over many years in the years previously was we had an immigration scheme that allowed a lot of unqualified or semi-skilled people to come here where that was not necessarily where the need was. It is about focusing employers here on filling skilled gaps that we just cannot fill locally.I know that that member when I look at the comments that she made to The Platform in April this year is not concerned about that and she thinks there shouldn't be a wage threshold or an income threshold.Erica Stanford: It's nice that you listen to me!Hon ANDREW LITTLE: And so—well the member thinks that I listen to her; actually she goes and talks to The Platform. I have to tell that member—to her considerable regret I'm sure—that I don't listen to The Platform. I do note what she said to The Platform which was this—and I quote—"I've been saying for a long time is we've got to get rid of this median wage rubbish about you know you have to earn almost $30 an hour to be able to work in New Zealand which means in some cases you're going to be paid more than the Kiwi standing next to you. That's just got to go." So we know what the National Party wants to do. And—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): The time for the Minister's time in the chair has come to an end and we now make room for the Minister of Education. Thank you Minister."
McDowall James; Little AndrewDr JAMES McDOWALL (ACT): Thank you Mr Chair. On that same vein regarding migrant exploitation and the Accredited Employer Work Visa I'd just like to get the Minister's reaction in response to a question I made in June 2021. I asked the Hon Kris Faafoi: how can he be certain that the new scheme will not increase migrant exploitation—over two years ago—and the response was from the previous previous Minister Because the new system will prevent migrant exploitation happening." So in light of that does he think now with two years of hindsight the system has worked as intended given the media reports and the increases in migrant exploitation and if not will he consider removing wage rules that drive inflation and wage recycling and also the tying of visas to employers which ACT at the time two years ago called to be dropped?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Immigration): In that question that member has exposed ACT's core philosophy which is that they don't actually care about exploitation; they want labour as cheaply as possible. The system we have in place is to ensure a level of pay for overseas workers that creates an incentive for New Zealand employers to make sure that they have exhausted the domestic market for that labour and ensures that workers who come from overseas can be sure of an income that allows them to live with some sort of dignity.So going back to the question that the member posed more than two years ago about how certain the Minister at the time could be that there won't be an increase in exploitation I think even if the Minister didn't state it at the time what was understood is we expected that reported migrant exploitation at that time was hugely understated. There was a huge under-reporting of migrant exploitation because a lot of migrant workers particularly when English is a second language find it difficult to find a place to go and raise a complaint. They are somewhat diffident or they lack the confidence to do so or they are simply fearful about the consequences. That's why part of the new regime is a system that makes it easier to make complaints about exploitation—that not only makes it easier to make complaints but has a kind of safe harbour for those workers to go to with those two other visas that can apply that they can be put on to very swiftly so that they can then with support get under way the process of finding alternative employment.So I think to respond to the member what we are seeing now is reported levels of migrant exploitation that are in fact what they always were; it is just now more transparent because of the system that we've put in place and we now have more effective ways of dealing with it."
O'Connor GregESTIMATES DEBATEIn CommitteeCHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): The House is in committee for consideration of the Appropriation (2023/24 Estimates) Bill for further consideration of the Natural and Built Environment Bill and for consideration of the Spatial Planning Bill.The Standing Orders provide for 11 hours of debate on the Estimates. The Business Committee has determined to organise the debate by portfolio so there will be no sector-specific debates. All votes are available for debate but only specific Ministers will be available each day to speak to the indicated portfolios only. The Government has indicated that the Minister of Immigration the Minister of Education the Minister of Housing and the Minister of Health will be available today. Each debate will be led by a call from the chairperson or member of the committee that considered the Estimates most closely related to the Minister's portfolios.This debate expires after 11 hours at which point questions will be put that the votes stand part of the schedules and on the provisions of the Appropriation (2023/24 Estimates) Bill. The time for the debate has been allocated to parties on a proportional basis and may be taken as parties see fit during the debate. New Zealand Labour has five hours and 43 minutes New Zealand National has three hours and nine minutes ACT New Zealand has 55 minutes the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has 50 minutes Te Paati Māori has 11 minutes Dr Elizabeth Kerekere has six minutes and the Hon Meka Whaitiri has six minutes.The Estimates debate should be relevant to the Government's current spending plans as contained in the Estimates of Appropriations. A compendium of the reports of select committees on the votes is available on the Table.The question is that the votes contained in the Estimates of Appropriation for 2023/24 stand part of the schedules.Members we start with the Minister of Immigration. The Minister is available for the next hour.
Rurawhe AdrianHOUSE IN COMMITTEESPEAKER: I declare the House in committee for the Appropriation (2023/24 Estimates) Bill the Natural and Built Environment Bill and the Spatial Planning Bill.
Rurawhe AdrianPETITIONS PAPERS SELECT COMMITTEE REPORTS AND INTRODUCTION OF BILLSSPEAKER: No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. Ministers have delivered papers.CLERK: Government responses to:the petition of Mahi for Ukraine on Declaring Russia a Terrorist State" and thereport of the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee: Petition of Democracy for Myanmar Working Group New Zealand2022 annual report for Te Pūkengastatements of intent for the:Electricity AuthorityNew Zealand Infrastructure CommissionNew Zealand Police andRau Paenga Limited2023/24 statements of performance expectations for the:Tertiary Education CommissionElectricity AuthorityNew Zealand Infrastructure Commission andRau Paenga Limited.SPEAKER: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.CLERK: Reports of the Economic Development Science and Innovation Committee on the:2021/22 Annual review of the Crown Regional Holdings Limited and the2021/22 Annual review of the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authorityreport of the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee on the Petition of Morteza Sharifi and Petition of Aida Tavassolireport of the Petitions Committee on the Petition of Anthony Gorereport of the Primary Production Committee on the Briefing on Muka Tangata's work planreport of the Regulations Review Committee on the Briefing on Animal Welfare Secondary Legislationreports of the Social Services and Community Committee on the:petition of the Retirement Village Residents Association and theResale Right for Visual Artists Billreport of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee on the Land Transport Management (Regulation of Public Transport) Amendment Bill.SPEAKER: The bills are set down for second reading. The reports of the Primary Production Committee and the Regulations Review Committee are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced."
Privilege — Conduct of Member—Tim van de Molen
Rurawhe AdrianPRIVILEGEConduct of Member—Tim van de MolenSPEAKER: Members I have received a letter from Rachel Boyack raising a matter of privilege: Tim van de Molen's conduct towards the chairperson of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee on 29 June 2023. There are differing accounts of what occurred at the conclusion of the committee's meeting. If the allegations are accurate the conduct complained of could amount to threatening or intimidating a member acting in the discharge of their duty or threatening a member on account of their conduct in Parliament. The Speaker's role in such matters is to determine whether the facts alleged could if true amount to a breach of privilege or contempt of the House. The Speaker does not inquire into the veracity of the evidence presented or conduct an inquiry into the allegation. That is the role of the Privileges Committee. I find that a question of privilege arises and that question stands referred to the Privileges Committee.
Visitors — Women Parliamentarians' Caucus—Sri Lanka
Rurawhe AdrianVISITORSSri Lanka—Women Parliamentarians' Caucus DelegationSPEAKER: I'm sure that members would wish to welcome the Hon Dr Sudarshini Fernandopulle chairperson of the Women Parliamentarians' Caucus from the Parliament of Sri Lanka and her accompanying delegation who are present in the gallery.
Rurawhe Adrian; Williams PotoTUESDAY 1 AUGUST 2023The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.KARAKIA/PRAYERSSPEAKER: Members in celebration of Cook Islands Language Week I've asked the Hon Poto Williams to say the prayer in te reo Māori Kuki Airani. Hon POTO WILLIAMS (Labour—Christchurch East): Te Atua Mana te akameitaki atu nei matou iakoe no toou takinga meitaki taau i riringi mai ki runga ia matou. Te akaruke nei matou i to matou tu tangata te akamaara nei matou i te Ariki e te pure nei matou kia arataki koe i ta matou uriuri anga manako kia rave matou i ta matou angaanga i roto i teia ngutuare na roto i te pakari te tuatua tika e te akaaka no te meitaki e te au o to matou basileia Aotearoa. Amene.
Wednesday 26 July 2023 - Volume 770
VoteA party vote was called for on the question That the Employment Relations (Restraint of Trade) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.Ayes 73New Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere; Whaitiri.Noes 43New Zealand National 33; ACT New Zealand 10.Motion agreed to.Bill read a first time.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): The question is That the Employment Relations (Restraint of Trade) Amendment Bill be considered by the Education and Workforce Committee.Motion agreed to.Bill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.
Employment Relations (Restraint of Trade) Amendment Bill — First Reading
Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill — First Reading
VoteA party vote was called for on the question That the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. Ayes 44New Zealand National 34; ACT New Zealand 10. Noes 73New Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere; Whaitiri. Motion not agreed to.
Crown Minerals (Prohibition of Mining) Amendment Bill — First Reading
VoteA party vote was called for on the question That the Crown Minerals (Prohibition of Mining) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.Ayes 11Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Whaitiri; Kerekere.Noes 104New Zealand Labour 62; New Zealand National 32; ACT New Zealand 10.Motion not agreed to.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Members the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break and the House will resume at 7.30 p.m. this evening. Sitting suspended from 6.02 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.
VoteCHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): The question is that Camilla Belich's amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 396 be agreed to.A party vote was called for on the question That the amendment be agreed to.Ayes 73New Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere; Whaitiri.Noes 42New Zealand National 32; ACT New Zealand 10.Amendment agreed to.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): The question is that Ricardo Menéndez March's amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 399 be agreed to.A party vote was called for on the question That the amendments be agreed to.Ayes 10Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere.Noes 104New Zealand Labour 62; New Zealand National 32; ACT New Zealand 10.Amendments not agreed to.A party vote was called for on the question That clauses 1 to 4 as amended be agreed to.Ayes 73New Zealand Labour 62; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 9; Kerekere; Whaitiri.Noes 42New Zealand National 32; ACT New Zealand 10.Clauses 1 to 4 as amended agreed to.
Companies (Directors' Duties) Amendment Bill — In Committee