Carter John: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 3) — First Reading 
Carter John: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 3) — First Reading 
[Volume:616;Page:12490] 
JOHN CARTER (National—Northland) 
: 
 We cannot even call that a whip’s speech because the member is not now a whip. To suggest that this is outstanding legislation is nearly as funny as the foreshore and seabed legislation. The reason why we are here is that this bill is correcting a whole lot of mistakes that were made by this Government when the bill was put through the House not so long ago. To be fair to Minister Chris Carter I do not think that he has denied or tried to duck the fact that there are mistakes. To be fair to him he has not stood up here and said that it was not his fault which is unusual. 
Hon David Carter 
: “Swainy” does that; “Swainy” blames everybody else. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Minister Swain does but I have not heard the Minister of Local Government try to duck the responsibility. It is worthwhile putting on the record that we are here. How long is it since the bill was put through? 
Sandra Goudie 
: A couple of years? 
JOHN CARTER 
: Was it not even less than that? 
Sandra Goudie 
: Dog control was last year. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Yes the dog control legislation was last year and I think the rating bill was just before the last election. Here we are dealing with a bill that corrects a whole lot of mistakes that have been made over the last 6 12 and 15 months. Quite honestly why should we be surprised? This is the standard of administration that this Government sets itself. Indeed it is becoming more and more reflective of the standards the Government sets. Quite honestly the public are starting to say: “Enough.” Indeed it is starting to get to the stage where the public are saying that they want a group of people who are responsible who can put through good legislation and who make sure that the legislation before them is correct. We will not then have to go back and correct a whole lot of the bills that are before us. 
I want to come to one or two issues in particular that are dealt with in this bill. In relation to the Local Government (Rating) Act I am sure that most members of Parliament have got to the stage where we have been as frustrated as indeed have many members of the public of New Zealand in trying to get information out of local government. It is not local government’s fault. The legislation prevented the public from obtaining information from the local authority. We debated this bill when Sandra Lee was the Minister in charge of the particular part of this bill that we are now correcting. I remember arguing and debating whether this would be an end result—whether it might prevent people from having access to the records of local authorities so that they could find out names and addresses; the stuff that historically we have been able to do for— 
Hon David Carter 
: Like the member’s mother does. 
JOHN CARTER 
: I think mum has got to the stage where she will get one of her sons to look after it now. Nevertheless this has been something that people in New Zealand have done forever. It is part of what we are. All of sudden it was stopped. It was a mistake. It was pointed out to the Government that it was a mistake. And what did the Government do? It was not interested. We told the Government that we would probably have to come back and put legislation through. I hate to say: “I told you so.” It is a fact of life and here we are correcting it. 
This is an important thing for people to be able to get information on. If they want to know about a property they should be able to go to the local authority obtain the name address and so on of the people who own it and have some interest in it. They have had to go through all sorts of machinations arm wrestles and all sorts of different systems to jolly well get the information they needed. The consequence is that we have to put this bill through to correct it. We should never have had to deal with it in the way we are tonight. 
The second thing I want to talk about is the meeting issue and the casting vote. That will generate some interest. It is one of those fifty-fifty issues—that is does one permit it or does one not permit it? In our Parliament the convention is that a draw is a loss and the status quo remains. If we do not have the numbers legislation does not get through. It is as simple as that. We have had the occasion where we had a draw but with one abstention and that got the legislation through. 
Hon Member 
: Which legislation was that? 
JOHN CARTER 
: It was the prostitution legislation. 
Hon David Carter 
: Who abstained? 
JOHN CARTER 
: I am trying to remember. It was Mr Choudhary who abstained. We really did have a draw. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Would the member please call the member by his full name. 
JOHN CARTER 
: I would but I think I would be pulled up for the fact that I did not pronounce it correctly so it is probably better if I do not try. I do not want to embarrass him or me for that matter. So let us just say that it was a member whose name is well known who decided to abstain from voting which was rather unfortunate. But the point I am making is that the Standing Orders of our Parliament state that if a party does not get the majority it does not get the legislation through. 
It has been the practice in local government that the mayor or the chairperson of the local authority the committee or whatever has a casting vote. But of course at the moment there is now debate around whether that should remain. It will be interesting to see how we handle that. My understanding is that the bill provides for a casting vote— 
Hon Chris Carter 
: No it does not. 
JOHN CARTER 
: That is right but there is representation to say that there should be a casting vote. It is an interesting debate—it is the sort of matter that should go before a select committee. There are some good reasons why a casting vote should be permitted but there are also some good reasons why it should not. It will be one of those interesting issues on which I am sure there will be lots of submissions. My understanding is that local government is fifty-fifty on it. 
Pansy Wong 
: Do they have a casting vote? 
JOHN CARTER 
: No that is the problem. If we asked local authorities we would probably have to end up with a casting vote and they cannot have one so we would not know who was on which side. But having said that I think it is an issue that will certainly generate some submissions and we will watch that with some interest. 
I want to finish where I started by saying that the National Party is supporting this bill to select committee because there are issues that do need to be addressed and should be addressed. But we should not be addressing them here tonight for the very reason that too often we get to the stage of correcting legislation that has been mucked up by this Government and it is not good enough. It costs the taxpayers of this country too much for us to have to bring legislation like this before the House. It is not as though this country is flush with money although we know that the Government is sticking some away in its piggy bank so that it can do its best to influence some outcomes a bit later on when the Budget arrives— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Post-election bribes! 
JOHN CARTER 
: Well I am not sure whether that is parliamentary so we will not go there; we will save all that for the Budget. But the point I am making is nevertheless we do not need to waste taxpayers’ money on this sort of legislation. 
If the Government had considered the legislation and taken the Opposition’s advice which was given to it at the time quite honestly we would not be here tonight debating this. People would not have had to put up with another 10 minutes of me making a contribution to the Parliament and a lot of people will be wondering why I have made a contribution. But I am pleased I have. This law does need to go through. I want to express again the disappointing fact that we are correcting mistakes in legislation that the Government had put through in the past. It is most unfortunate. Let us hope it does not happen again.