Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:627;Page:21912] 
11.  
RON MARK (NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Is he confident that police funding is being used effectively? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Police 
: The Minister of Police has the flu at the moment. The answer is overall yes. The police are better resourced than ever before with staff numbers about to top 10000 for the first time which is about 1300 more than there were in 1999; and an annual budget that has been increased by this Government to $1.03 billion. The effectiveness of the huge investment in policing in recent years is evidenced in the fact that crime rates have fallen dramatically to levels not seen since the early 1980s; more crime is being solved than at any time since 1987; and the road toll is at a historic low. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Could you assist us on this side of the House. Nowhere in the statement of intent does it show that uniformed numbers will be over 10000. Could you ask the Minister to correct his answer please. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Ron Mark 
: Well it is about accuracy and not misleading the House. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. Would the member please ask his supplementary question. 
Ron Mark 
: If all the money allocated to policing issues in this country is being used effectively could the Minister tell the House why we are continuing to pay a huge salary and all the perks and baubles that go with it to a Minister who refuses to front in this House and answer questions—not just today but previous days day after day and now even on the hustings? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I deplore the fact that when a member of this House from any side of the House is ill in bed with the flu and is not able to be here another member makes a personal attack on him. That is really pathetic petty politics. 
Martin Gallagher 
: Has the Minister seen any reports of threats to the current effectiveness of the police? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Yes. I have seen reports that National is advocating cutting staff from core Government departments to pay for tax cuts. I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to cut police numbers— 
Simon Power 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. This matter was ruled on earlier in the day when Mr Hide raised it with you. There is no such report. The Minister is creating a hypothetical situation on top of which he has no responsibility for National Party policy and is abusing his position in answering that question to make those statements. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Speaking to the point of order I have in my hand a report stating that National has confirmed that it is eyeing up job cuts in the public sector to help pay for big tax cuts promised in its first year in office. That is the report. I am quoting from it. 
Simon Power 
: That is not what the Minister said when he responded to the question. He made a specific reference to the police not the public service. He has misrepresented exactly what was in that report. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
:  
Hansard 
 will recall that I made no reference in my answer to the police. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I heard the Minister refer to a report. He then read from that report. I say it again and I know we are in that period that there cannot be speculation on hypothetical situations but if statements are referred to they are perfectly in order—on both sides whether it be in the questioning or in the answering. 
Dail Jones 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister is answering questions as the Minister of Police. He has just told us that he is referring to a report that made no reference to the police. Therefore how can that report possibly be used by him with regard to answers about the police? He should be asked not to refer to it. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Madam Speaker if I can finish my answer I will be happy to reply to the member. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Can we let the Minister finish his reply and then we will see where we go from there. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to cut police numbers but then I do recall in the late 1990s the last National - New Zealand First Government planned to cut 540 police staff in order to pay for the failed INCIS computer system. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. This is where we get ourselves into difficult situations. If a Minister blatantly says something that is not true not just once in response to my question but again and now again and he is not brought to task it leads to disorder. Now there are questions of not misrepresenting the facts in the House not telling untruths and not deliberately inciting disorder. The fact is that that man knows that the New Zealand First coalition agreement gave another 500 uniformed police and he is deliberating seeking to mislead the House again. And you let him get away with it. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I seek leave to table the document for the edification of the member. It starts: “Treasurer and Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has confirmed up to 450 jobs could go within the bureaucracy with police restructuring.” They are— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Ron Mark 
: I seek leave of the House to table the New Zealand First - National Government coalition agreement which makes— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Dail Jones 
: I seek leave to table the New Zealand First policy for the 2005 election which states that New Zealand First will double the size of the police force— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. Can we get to a supplementary question please. 
Larry Baldock 
: I seek leave to table the National - New Zealand First coalition agreement that promised the coalition would provide “sound and stable Government for New Zealand for a 3-year term”. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. We are getting to the point where the House is being brought into disrepute. I ask members to desist. Can we get to a supplementary question please. 
Dr Richard Worth 
: Why does the Minister have confidence that the Commissioner of Police will use the resources allocated to him in the recent Budget to fix the 111 system in light of the commissioner’s view that the report into the communications centre was “provocative” and he believed that the 111 service was in fact already quite adequate? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The member forgets that the person who ordered the report was in fact the Commissioner of Police. Why do I have confidence in it? I have confidence in it because it provides an unprecedented $45.5 million that will allow additional staff enhanced training systems additional radio channels and improved management systems and structures. This will resolve a very longstanding problem; a problem of long standing to the extent that this was a problem under previous administrations. 
Ron Mark 
: In light of that answer does the Minister not recall that he was personally informed of the failings of the 111 system 3 years earlier than the ordering of that inquiry and was specifically warned that someone might lose their life; and why did Iraena Asher have to die before this Government acted? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The way in which a communication centre operates by its very nature is an operational matter. That is a responsibility of the Commissioner of Police and the police commissioner has accepted that responsibility. The answers given time and time again by the Minister of Police in this House were that the review was ordered and when we had the result of that review he would ensure that the funding was available to implement those recommendations from the review. The Minister was as good as his word and together with the Minister of Finance provided $45.5 million to produce a system that will be truly world-class.