Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers  
Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers  
[Volume:615;Page:11015] 
12.  
STEPHEN FRANKS (ACT) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: Has she asked the Human Rights Commission whether Joris de Bres was acting jointly with the chief commissioner pursuant to sections 15(1)(d) and 16(c) of the Human Rights Act in making the comments reported as “De Bres slams Nat Maori policies” and does she have any concerns about Mr de Bres as a tax-funded appointee making the claims reported? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Associate Minister of Justice) 
: 
 No and no. 
Stephen Franks 
: How can we be reassured that Mr de Bres’ call for what he called “ground rules for treaty debate” does not simply reflect her Government’s anxiety to close this debate down especially considering Mr de Bres’ position that National’s advertising is “dangerous” and that references to “race-based policies” and “racial privilege” are broad slogans that do not fit the facts and are therefore out of order? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Mr de Bres has a statutory obligation to act independently. He is acting independently which is why I have had no contact with him. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: Has she seen any subsequent reports on Joris de Bres’ comments? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Yes this morning’s  
Dominion Post  
acknowledged that it misrepresented what Mr Joris de Bres said. He was not attacking a political party he was saying something applicable to all politicians some of whom reacted differently from others. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Is she concerned about suggestions that appointees to public positions nominated by her as Minister have to display a willingness to do the Government’s business or have Labour Party activist credentials? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No and no and I would just draw the member’s attention to the fact that the Deputy Prime Minister Michael Cullen was also attacked but did not behave in quite the same hysterical way as the Leader of the Opposition. 
Stephen Franks 
: Can I ask whether that is acceptable? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I just want to contemplate the word “hysterical”. I think that word should be withdrawn. 
Hon Margaret Wilson 
: I withdraw. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If Joris de Bres cannot find any offence or infringement against legislation that he is meant to be acting upon why on earth is he continuing to make statements and why does the Minister not fire him? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The position requires the member to act independently. He acts independently. Members in this House comment upon that and I thought that was what free speech was all about. 
Stephen Franks 
: Given that the Race Relations Commissioner’s duty is to act jointly with the Chief Commissioner and he has a statutory duty to promote understanding of the treaty what restrictions or ground rules should there be against a publicly paid appointee taking a biased position in a political debate and has she taken any steps to ensure the Human Rights Commission is observing them? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: To follow the course of action that the member has suggested would in fact be interfering with the independence of the office. 
Stephen Franks 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked what restrictions or ground rules there should be. I did not suggest any and the Minister has not addressed the question. She has assumed a position on my part and completely ducked the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will ask the Minister to comment further. 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: To lay down any ground rules would seem to me to be in direct contradiction to the statutory obligation to in fact act independently. That would be acting according to the Government’s directions which is exactly what the member has been accusing us of doing. We are not doing that. If the member does not agree with what the Race Relations Commissioner says he should express that as others do also.