Wong Pansy: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Wong Pansy: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:17078] 
PANSY WONG (National) 
: 
 I would like to continue the theme that was brought up by my parliamentary colleague Sandra Goudie on the issue of customary values and practices. I guess nowadays a great number of New Zealanders do have respect for each other’s customary values and practices. But it does get difficult when it starts to form part of the legislative process. I was just reflecting on the Minister who is in charge of this bill the Hon Michael Cullen who on the 150th anniversary of the New Zealand Parliament criticised judicial activism. He was lamenting how Parliament passed legislation and the judges used their initiative to extend into areas that were beyond the intention—[ 
Interruption 
] I suggest the Labour MPs will soon become Opposition members as soon as the election is held and if they have something worthwhile to say they should take a call and explain that to the public.  
I was just saying how the Hon Michael Cullen was concerned about judicial activism and those who would not carry out the intention of the New Zealand Parliament after we pass legislation. But when we start to incorporate terms like “customary values and practices” that is when we actually start to relegate Parliament’s responsibility to the courts and let the courts make those decisions. Of course customary values and practices are really difficult. I used to be in Canterbury and I can assure members that Ngai Tahu has certain perspectives of their values and practices which will probably be different from some of the North Island Maori iwi or hapu. So who in effect is going to determine that when it comes to incorporating terms such as “paying respect” and “adhering to customary values and practices”? It is the courts. Is the judicial process going to be resourced to interpret that? What will happen if these customary values and practices change over time? We are raising very serious issues. Maybe the Minister in the chair David Benson-Pope would like to take a call and explain to the public whether the courts have developed enough common law cases to interpret and pay due respect. If we incorporate something in the law can that be objectively implemented? 
 There may be grievances. When judges try to interpret the legislation they may have more than one way of interpreting it. They may turn down a customary rights order and say: “That is not in accordance with that.” [ 
Interruption 
] I suggest that the member take a call. I am not belittling Maori customary rights and practices. I am just commenting on how the law works when it is codified. Today we are incorporating that in our legislation but what messages and what guidance will we give to our judges so that they will not interpret that contrary to the intention of the Parliament? How can anybody actually codify a set of customary values and practices? Do we have judges who are so learned? Do we have judges on the select committee? 
Hon Dover Samuels 
: Why don’t you import some from China? 
PANSY WONG 
: Here we go! Once again whenever members cannot use the power of logic to debate the issues they attack people by saying how recently they have come here.