Sabin Mike: Social Security (Fraud Measures and Debt Recovery) Amendment Bill — First ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeSabin Mike: Social Security (Fraud Measures and Debt Recovery) Amendment Bill — First Reading[Sitting date: 27 August 2013. Volume:693;Page:13137. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]MIKE SABIN (National—Northland): I am pleased to take the last call on another very good piece of legislation from the Hon Chester Borrows. He is doing some very good work in this space and working very well with the Minister for Social Development Paula Bennett. Has this Government not made a huge impact in the welfare space and a very positive impact for New Zealanders? The question I would have for the pervious speaker Catherine Delahunty is this: is it not the Government’s first obligation to ensure that the taxpayers of New Zealand are well supported in the provisions by which they pay their tax to serve this country and that we meet those provisions and that we meet the obligations of those individuals? And where it is clear that citizens who are reliant on the goodwill of the State and the finances of the State by virtue of those taxpayers are taking advantage of that and are defrauding their fellow neighbours and taxpayers and community the Government should do all that it can to respond to that on behalf of those taxpaying New Zealanders. First and foremost that is what the Social Security (Fraud Measures and Debt Recovery) Amendment Bill is doing. It is saying that we take those responsibilities very seriously.Although I know the Greens are very proud to oppose something like this they will never be a party in Government as long as they maintain that attitude. Although they can dilly-dally around some fringe sort of watermelon patch ideas and ideologies and disguise themselves as a party that is there for the environment but is really there tosocially engineer in a Marxist fashion New Zealanders actually can peel back the layers—Hon David Cunliffe: Ah you Friedmanite.MIKE SABIN: Well Mr Cunliffe may want to be very careful about the comments that he makes about the Green Party because if he goes on to be successful in his leadership bid against Tweedledum and Tweedledee there of course that party the Green Party is the very party that he is going to have to be cuddling up to if he ever fulfils aspirations of being the Prime Minister. Mr Cunliffe is an intelligent political operator. He is intelligent enough to know that cuddling up to the Green Party is akin to cuddling up to a cactus because there are a lot thorns and there are lot of prickles with that particular party.Hon David Cunliffe: It’s not going to work—no we’re a Government in waiting.MIKE SABIN: If it is not going to work Mr Cunliffe then the member will never be the leader—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Order! We are actually on a different debate so I would ask the member to come back.MIKE SABIN: Certainly.Hon David Cunliffe: I seek leave for the member who is on his feet to yield the balance of his time—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Order! No you cannot do that. [Interruption] You cannot do that. The member will sit. You cannot do that.MIKE SABIN: With this particular bill I will just reflect on some of my previous life before coming in here as a police officer. Although everyone in this House knows—and certainly this Government which has to make responsible decisions knows—that it is not a case of everyone on welfare committing welfare fraud what I saw as a police officer—Hon David Cunliffe: Stranger in the House.MIKE SABIN: Listen up Mr Cunliffe. The member might learn a little bit about his constituents and the lives they are living out there in the big wide world. What was very clear to me is that there are unfortunately a significant number of individuals who do pair up in domestic relationships and who are profiting from the fact that they are living in a relationship in the nature of a marriage or a relationship that would see them ineligible for the additional support and they take that quite knowingly. They certainly do it in a manner that is reckless as to whether or not that would be the case. Time and time and time again I saw a situation where that was occurring. The frustration that I felt not only as a police officer but as a member of the community was that it was not good enough that the people who were reliant on their neighbours for support were actually taking those neighbours for a ride in doing so. Although there will always be some genuine cases of confusion or misunderstanding it is not a case that this Parliament should be making legislation that is targeted simply at that tiniest nuance. It must be accommodated for but ultimately the legislation that we should be looking to pass is to send the right message that the community the taxpayer and the Government says what is acceptable and what is not.At its heart that is exactly what this legislation is doing. It is saying that to the $26 million worth of welfare fraud committed by beneficiaries in relationships in 2013. That is one-third of all prosecutions. It is saying that that $26 million is not theirs. Taxpayers are not paying that money simply so that those beneficiaries can benefit by pulling a swindle. This legislation will in fact tackle that.I just want to touch briefly on before my time expires overpayments and the recovery of debt. In terms of people who have committed fraud $128 million is languishing. That money has not been recovered. A recent High Court decision made itvery clear that there was some confusion and clarity is needed. This legislation brings that clarity on a legislative footing so that it will improve the duty and role of the Ministry of Social Development to take all reasonably practicable steps to recover that debt. It also gives the Ministry of Social Development the discretion to determine on a case by case method how that recovery occurs and in some exceptional circumstances it could be deferred. Giving that legislative clarity sending that message and providing the Ministry of Social Development with those tools is an integral part of readjusting what is a significant amount of welfare fraud. I believe that the taxpayers of New Zealand deserve that. This Government gets on and does what needs to be done. I note the challenges of the Opposition—the Labour Party and the Greens. Although the Labour Party is supporting it it is a David Shearer support. It is the old “Oh yes we certainly support it but actually behind the scenes we are supporting and thinking about something else and steering down a different course.” That is what members opposite do. They say: “We support it but we don’t like it. We’re going to throw it under the bus anyway.” because they want a dollar each way. New Zealanders do not want a dollar each way. They want clear legislation a good Minister and a good portfolio where a lot of good work has been done.