10. Provincial Growth Fund—Ngati Hine Forestry TrustHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister for Regional Economic DevelopmentProvincial Growth Fund—Ngati Hine Forestry Trust10. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Is it still the case that the eligibility and assessment criteria of the Provincial Growth Fund as laid out by Cabinet in December 2017 includes the criterion that investment should neither socialise losses nor privatise gains"?Hon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Economic Development): Yes.Hon Paul Goldsmith: I didn't hear the answer but I presume it was yes.SPEAKER: It was yes.Hon Paul Goldsmith: How does he square that answer with comments in the May Ngati Hine Forestry Trust's newsletter talking about the joint venture with the Crown to which $6 million has been allocated from the Provincial Growth Fund that "Without providing any specifics the Trustees can advise that the financial returns to the beneficial owners to be received from this Forestry Right upon harvest will be substantial."?Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There is no such trust as the "Ngatahine trust" and that member should be required to get himself informed or desist from insulting a tribe up north.Hon Member: That's not a point of order.SPEAKER: No it's a very clear point of order. There's a challenge as to whether that supplementary question is properly authenticable and it's a very strong assertion from the member who lives in the area that there is no such trust and therefore there can't be a question. If the member has the newsletter here—Hon Paul Goldsmith: Speaking to the point of order I can only go on the website of the Ngati Hine Forestry Trust which includes this newsletter that I'm referring to. If they've got their terminology wrong well then I can't be expected to deal with that.SPEAKER: Well I think there might be a couple of points mightn't there?Rt Hon Winston Peters: Now he's reading from it but it wasn't what he was reading; it was the way he was pronouncing it. There is no such tribe as "Ngatahine".SPEAKER: Well I think I'm going to be the last person—and the person sitting on his left certainly won't be supportive of everything that's mispronounced being ruled out. Ask the question again please.Hon Paul Goldsmith: With pleasure Mr Speaker. How does he square that answer with comments in the May Ngati Hine Forestry Trust newsletter talking about their joint venture with the Crown to which $6 million has been allocated from the Provincial Growth Fund "without providing any specifics the Trustees can advise that the financial returns to the beneficial owners to be received from this forestry right upon harvest will be substantial"?Hon SHANE JONES: The Ngati Hine Forestry Trust has indeed effected a transaction with the Crown.Hon Dr Nick Smith: It's called mates rates.Hon SHANE JONES: That transaction will increase the number of trees moving towards the overarching 1 billion trees figure and the fact that they believe that the transaction suits both their interests and ours is hardly page one news.Hon Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker the last time the phrase "mates rates" was yelled out in connection with this you ruled that out of order. Is that still your ruling Mr Speaker?SPEAKER: I think it was in a slightly different context and I'll let it go this time.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is the newsletter correct when it says that the Crown will fund all the costs of planting managing and harvesting a pine forest on this 3600 hectare private block in return for an unspecified share of the proceeds and then the Crown will plant at its cost a new pine forest on the land it has cleared which will then be owned 100 percent by the trust?Hon SHANE JONES: The details referred to by the member reflect transactions that are commonplace in the forest sector. Given that this is a Government that is working tirelessly to rehabilitate that sector I realise that news probably is a form of education for the member on the other side of the House. The transaction most certainly enables the Crown to work with the landowner and boost the number of trees that will be grown train the number of people required to tend the trees and what proceeds are available at the end of the cycle of the tree growing will be shared between the two parties.Hon Paul Goldsmith: On what percentages will that sharing of proceeds be?Hon SHANE JONES: These two-bit suspicions are unworthy of the House's time. They're more akin to the habits of some figpecker bird. The actual commercial terms of that transaction lie within the confidentiality provisions entered into between the Crown and that particular party.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker while you can't be the responsible for the quality of an answer I think you can express on behalf of the House a concern when a Minister begins by saying that it is beneath the House's dignity to start questioning public expenditure. That sir is completely inappropriate and does I think point some of the sensitivity the Government feels around this particular issue.Hon SHANE JONES: Sir it is well within the rights of any member to point out the pettifogging time-wasting nature of Opposition questions that do not elucidate information but waste the time of the House. SPEAKER: I—[Interruption]—no. I am ready to rule. Thank you. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Down. Down.SPEAKER: The Acting Prime Minister will stand withdraw and apologise.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I apologise Mr Speaker.Hon Members: What? Didn't hear it.SPEAKER: Well I could hear him. Now I was on my feet and about to rule on Mr Brownlee's point of order. I think the way Mr Jones started his answer was not helpful. I'm not sure that his response to the point of order was helpful either but I think all these things have to be taken in context and if the member thinks that the interjection came from behind him then I think we're not at a high point in the House at the moment and therefore I'm not going to rule Mr Jones' response out.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why does he regard a concern for probity and transparency in the spending of a billion dollars of public money as "two-bit suspicions and pettifogging"?Hon SHANE JONES: The principles outlined in the Cabinet paper governing the allocation of the $3 billion provincial fund are robust and all Ministers exercising their powers as a consequence of that Cabinet paper are not pettifogging and on regular occasions that information is available. The fact that the Opposition are jealous that such a fund exists the fact that the provincial leaders are every day barracking us to do more—I can't be held responsible for the mental dishevelment of the other side of the House.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Did he or his officials discuss the project with Ngati Hine Forestry Trust acting chief executive officer and trustee the recently retired New Zealand First MP Pita Paraone?Hon SHANE JONES: To the best of my knowledge the trustees of that organisation include a Mr Pita Cherrington who I went to St Stephens School with; a Mr Waihoroi Shortland a candidate of the Māori Party and also a fellow colleague of mine at St Stephens School in the 1970s; and indeed on occasions Mr Pita Paraone. The leader of the Ngāti Hine tribe was most certainly within those discussions."