Dean Jacqui; Smith StuartPart 2 Amendments to Climate Change (Auctions Limits and Price Controls for Units) Regulations 2020CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Members we now come to the debate on Part 2 which is the debate on clauses 6 to 17. This is the debate on amendments to the Climate Change (Auctions Limits and Price Controls for Units) Regulations 2020. This also includes the debate on the Schedule. The question is that Part 2 stand part.STUART SMITH (National—Kaikōura): Thank you Madam Chair. Well it's great to have an opportunity to speak to my amendment which would in clause 9 regulation 15A after 15A(3)(a) insert (3)(aa) the leader of each party that is not in Government or in coalition with the Government"—that is to be consulted. In the spirit of the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Act and all the climate legislation to date we have had across-the-House support on these matters and where there's been disagreement it's been on minor issues not on the principles of what it's been trying to achieve. So this confidential auction reserve price is as the Minister has said they believe integral to running a good and fair system. That may well be but under this bill it is the Minister for Climate Change the Minister of Finance and the auction monitor that set the methodology. That effectively sets the price below which it cannot go—so it sets the bottom price—and that is a major part of this legislation and a major part of the climate legislation. Therefore in the spirit of all of the legislation that has preceded this on climate it should be a cross-party consultation process.Now I've spoken to the Minister previously about this. Hopefully he's had a road to Damascus moment and really realised that this should be consulted on with those other party leaders but it seems his view is that he's concerned this is a market issue and he couldn't really consult with anyone else. Well he's going to be consulting with the Minister of Finance. He's going to be consulting with the auction monitor. He would be consulting with the leader of the National Party with the leader of the ACT Party and with the leader of Te Paati Māori. That is not a large number of people and to say that that would be unsafe is to say that those people are dishonest and I simply don't accept that. The Leader of the Opposition is consulted on on matters to do with the Government Communications Security Bureau and the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service. They are far more sensitive issues that are being consulted on now and to say that we can't have this confidential reserve price methodology consulted on amongst the leaders of the parties—I simply don't buy that; it's a ridiculous argument.This is really important: if the Minister believes that this is an important bill that we're debating here tonight and he believes it's essential that it survives through different Governments going through time then he needs to actually put his money where his mouth is no pun intended—in fact it was intended—and consult the leaders of the non-governing parties. It's essential that they have full clarity on what is going on in this particular methodology. There's probably nothing more important than that. They must know that this methodology is sound. They must have clarity on it. We as members of Parliament don't need to know; we would have confidence in the process and the methodology should the leaders of our parties actually have been consulted on it.So I can't understand why the Minister would be against it. I know he will have had time to consult with the officials particularly the ones who are here in the Chamber now and I'm sure they will have given him sound advice. And that sound advice would be that you should support this Minister because it actually would run counter to all of your principles if you voted against it. It's a very sound piece of advice and there are far more people involved in other decisions that make really critical decisions such as Cabinet. Cabinet discusses what's market-sensitive information during Budget debates and do they keep it quiet? Well they do—unfortunately when they give it to Treasury they put it up on their website and we can look at it! But notwithstanding that that's just a failure of process. How that person kept his job I have no idea but that's another matter. But the Minister must tell us if he's not going to support this why.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): The member's time has expired. The committee will rise for the dinner break and we will resume at 7 o'clock.Sitting suspended from 6.02 p.m. to 7 p.m."