Collins Judith: Mercenary Activities (Prohibition) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Collins Judith: Mercenary Activities (Prohibition) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:618;Page:14240] 
JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) 
: 
 The National Party has made it very clear—particularly in the succinctly put speech by Wayne Mapp— 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Captain Mapp. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: —who I note was a captain—that we are not in favour of the activities of mercenaries as the Green Party was certainly speaking about before. What we are in favour of is accepting reality. People in the circumstances of Ron Mark—who is now a member of this House—when he was with the Sultanate of Oman would be caught by this bill. Quite clearly that is ridiculous. 
We have talked a lot today about the fact that none of our traditional allies—when we had allies—and friends have signed up to this treaty but I think it is really important to take a moment to remind the House who has signed it. It is stunning. I will read them out: Azerbaijan; Barbados; Belarus; Belgium which was so good against the Germans did members not find; Cameroon; Costa Rica; Croatia; Cyprus; Georgia and I remind members that that is the country not the State; Guinea; Italy which at least is well known; Libya—how about a bill on terrorism; no that is right; the Libyans have now sorted themselves out—Maldives; Mali; Mauritania; Qatar; Saudi Arabia; Senegal; Seychelles; Surinam; Togo; Turkmenistan; Ukraine; Uruguay; and Uzbekistan. The stunning comment we make here is that the vast majority of those nations did not exist 20 years ago. The only reason they do exist is the breakdown of the cold war and the work that the Americans and the other Western countries did to free them from the yoke of socialism. 
John Carter 
: Communism. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: Communism as Mr Carter quite correctly says. There is not much difference I say to Mr Carter. That is what we are signing up to. We are in great company with that lot are we not? 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Lots of democratic countries. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: There are lots of democratic countries as Mr Wayne Mapp says! That is what we are signing up to. 
I was concerned by what Mr Shirley said about the situation of the Gurkhas and I would like clarification from a Minister that the Gurkhas would not be included in the legislation because their deeds are legendary. Their courage their stamina and their loyalty to the British Crown have been utterly legendary. We need to take that into account. 
Having read the bill and looked at the definition of “mercenary” I am concerned as to whether the Papal State might have a bit of a problem. Does it not have the Swiss Guard? Is the Swiss Guard not in fact a private army that is made up of mercenaries—that has always been made up of mercenaries? Every Catholic person in this Parliament should consider that he or she is about to outlaw the Swiss Guard. 
The comment was made in the House that the Prime Minister when she was in Iraq for her photo opportunity might in fact have been protected by some of these dreadful contractors who are paid more than the locals for doing their jobs. Frankly I can understand why they might need to be paid more than the locals to do their jobs—in more ways than one. Those people might have protected her. Did she not travel through Italy in a car at 200 kilometres an hour to visit the Pope and was she not looked after by the Swiss Guard at those times? Was that not so? 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: She wore a dress! 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: I think it was a skirt I say to Mr Shirley; we should get it right. I think so. So really will that not be a problem—the fact that the Papal State might have an issue with the legislation? Is that not a problem? 
Where is the great call for the legislation? Where is the great need? Is it not all about the fact that some New Zealanders have gone to Iraq to help out the Iraqi people in their liberation? Is that not what it is all about? The Prime Minister is brassed off that they can earn more money there—and they should as they are in great danger and have shown the way to a lot of other people who would like to see that happen as well. They are doing some really good work. 
Occasionally I wonder about people who go on about peacekeeping. Who do we think makes the peace? It is the people who put their lives on the line day after day. I heard the Green member speaking about mercenaries and war. She talked about “clean war”. My dear old dad who is long departed now spent 4 years overseas in the Second World War as an engineer. He was in the front line as engineers were. He always said to me that the people who say war is fun and glorious were not there. The people who say there is such a thing as “clean war” were not there. The fact is that not only do mercenaries commit acts of barbarity against each other and others but so do armies generally. That is the way it works in war. War is hell it has never been any different and it never will be. 
There will always be war when there are people who will not accept the democratic process and will not accept that people have the right to determine their own result for their country. That is what happens. If we do not stand up for democracy we will be calling on mercenaries ourselves. One of the things that is really obvious in the bill is that it will not allow our people to be able to make their own decisions about where they want to be and what they want to be doing. I wondered whether this bill would have applied—if it had been in place 60-odd years ago—to the American servicemen who went over and served with the British before Pearl Harbor. Of course if they were paid more than the locals then yes it would have. Those people risked their lives fighting against fascism and in this House today we are condemning them provided that they were in fact paid more. We need to be able to accept that some people have specialties—Mr Mark obviously had a specialty which he took to the Sultanate of Oman. We are condemning them for using that for going into harm’s way without someone demanding that they do so. Because they exercise their free will they are condemned. 
I completely support the comments made by my colleague Mr Mapp and I say that this bill is an unnecessary piece of feel-good rubbish that is being put together by this Government so that we can hang out with the likes of Qatar.