Macindoe TimHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): If you may recall in a previous call I urged members opposite to engage in this debate. I want to repeat that because while it is unusual when the House sits under urgency for the Opposition to dominate particularly in the committee stage it is very unusual and I would suggest utterly unacceptable for members opposite to remain utterly mute as they have done now for 2¼ hours since debate on Part 2 began and as they did all this morning. The really extraordinary thing is that they felt it was so important for most of the last five weeks to take long calls and filibuster on important measures like the subordinate legislation bill the Financial Services Legislation Amendment Bill and the Electronic Interactions Reform Bill. We had all of those measures and yet when we come to Part 2 of this most important bill in the view of the Government they sit there absolutely mute. Members of the public are asking why that should be so.Let's now focus on the winter energy payment. That is a significant feature of Part 2 of this bill. While the winter energy payment may be well-intentioned and appreciated by many New Zealand superannuitants or people who are in receipt of a veterans pension—and I acknowledge that—nevertheless the problem is that it will be so difficult to administer in a way that guarantees that the money will be spent for the purpose that the Government intends. If anyone doubts that let me give you a bit of an analogy because in my view it's a bit like an employer telling a staff member that he or she may have an extra $5 a week in their pay packet as long as they guarantee to go and spend that money on fresh fruit and vegetables.Well that sounds good in principle too. We all need the healthy vitamins and other things that come from fresh fruit and vegetables. But if the employee is heavily in debt or struggling to pay a mortgage or facing crippling medical expenses or any of those many other problems that beset many people particularly those on lower incomes it is highly unlikely that the employer's condition will be honoured. In fact frankly you'd have to say there's virtually no chance of that at all. So it is with the winter energy payment and I'm asking the Minister of Finance who's grimacing at the moment to explain why—Hon Grant Robertson: For obvious reasons.Hon TIM MACINDOE: Well I'm asking the Minister to explain why that analogy isn't correct because it's very hard to understand how you could possibly put on a condition like that and then enforce it.So that I'm not just asking a question or criticising the measure—I want to stress that the Opposition are doing our level best today to put forward constructive suggestions that will improve this bill and I've been very proud of the effort the energy and the thoughtful engagement that's been going on on this side—I am today proposing a much more realistic and workable amendment to the bill. It will make a tangible difference to the many New Zealanders who clearly do struggle to keep themselves warm during the winter months. We all know many people in that category.My amendment provides for those who are eligible for the winter energy payment to receive their entitlement in a lump sum to enable them to purchase a heat pump or possibly more than one depending on their needs and circumstances and obviously the type of heat pump they go for or perhaps a season's supply of firewood if they reside in a house or flat or some other dwelling where that is available to them and that is their preferred option so that they may ensure that their heating needs are met from the outset of those colder winter months.My amendment is a simple practical workable solution and one that would make a real difference to many older New Zealanders who in many cases currently rely on costly inefficient and older heating appliances. A well-chosen heat pump will be cheaper to operate safer if younger grandchildren happen to be visiting the grandparents in their home at that time and much more environmentally friendly. So for a whole host of reasons—Simeon Brown: Keeps them cool as well.Hon TIM MACINDOE: Indeed they do Mr Brown. Thank you for that suggestion. For a whole host of reasons what I am proposing here is practical workable good for the environment good for the safety of the children and particularly good for the budget. As I say there's a host of reasons to encourage more and more New Zealanders to switch from their antiquated heating appliances.