Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:633;Page:4769] 
4.  
JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: Is he sufficiently concerned about the demise of the Overlander service on 30 September to commit the Government to contributing financially to a rescue package; if not why not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 No because I am yet to see a sensible proposal for a rescue package. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: In view of the almost total lack of marketing of the service and the growing international market for rail tourism would the Minister make a marketing campaign a condition of any Government-supported rescue package? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am yet to receive any proposals for a package other than our spending as much money as Toll wants to carry on the service in the future starting at $1.75 million a year plus $500000. It is worth noting that the train is capable of carrying only three carriages so in fact if it increased in popularity it would run out of carriages. I also believe that the carriages may be required for the Wairarapa suburban service within the near future. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker tena tatou katoa. What consultation has the Government undertaken with Tuwharetoa paramount chief Ariki Tumu te Heuheu the chairperson of the United Nations World Heritage Committee and what are the economic and cultural consequences that Tuwharetoa advise will result from the Government not supporting the financial viability of this service particularly given that the Tongariro National Park is on the World Heritage List? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No I have not consulted and I have received no advice. Given the fact that in terms of travelling from Wellington to Auckland and back there are an average of about 50 people per day I doubt there will be that many economic consequences. 
Peter Brown 
: Will the Minister clarify the situation: is he not aware that Toll NZ has apparently told the local community that it is prepared to operate the service at cost—it just does not wish to operate the service at a loss—and has nobody put any figures to him along those sorts of lines? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: We do not have figures that I think would be easy to disentangle the cost of the Overlander outside the general passenger services that Toll provides. Certainly Toll would claim that it was making a loss on that route and certainly it has asked for $1.75 million a year. Given the number of people involved that seems a very heavy level of subsidy. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Is it sensible long-term planning to allow the termination of an iconic and potentially viable North Island long-distance passenger rail service resulting in a greater use of fuel cars and planes at the very time when international oil prices are rising sharply and New Zealand is struggling to meet its climate change commitments? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I very much doubt that running an extremely large diesel engine with three carriages that are usually less than half full is more economic than running a bus or two with significantly smaller engines over that distance. 
Tariana Turia 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker tena tatou. What advice has the Minister given to Sue Morris the Mayor of the Ruapehu District Council who has sought a meeting with him to alert the Government to the way in which the economy of the district will be affected by the “loss of business operations and employment opportunities loss of tourism dollars and loss of transport options.”? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I have not given any specific advice to Ms Morris but my general advice would be that I see very little future in this route as a standard passenger route. If there is to be a revived service of any sort I think it would be more likely to be a dedicated tourism operation along the lines of the Otago Excursion Train Trust and so on. I await any kinds of offers in that respect. My good friends the Auckland Regional Council perhaps could help by ceasing to charge $200000 a year for the train to be at the Britomart transport centre for half an hour twice a day. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Why is it that he is prepared to bail out Air New Zealand to the tune of $885 million and spend an additional $1.5 billion of taxpayers’ money on roads yet sit back and watch the Overlander go to the wall for the sake of less than $4 million? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Because very few people travel on the Overlander compared with Air New Zealand. We do not export anything via the Overlander. We do not bring large numbers of tourists into New Zealand via the Overlander. The Overlander is not if I can overuse that much misused word the iconic symbol of the New Zealand travel industry overseas. 
Peter Brown 
: Does the Minister appreciate that I think most people in this House would see $1.7 million as a huge loss and would he be receptive to seeing some figures of a more modest level and consider a subsidy at least for a short term? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I have been approached by a number of local authorities. My understanding at this stage is their notion of a business plan may be that we pay. I am waiting to see a business plan that has someone else also perhaps paying. 
Keith Locke 
: I seek leave to table a press release issued by the Auckland Regional Council last night calling for a continuation of the Overlander for an interim period of 12 months and the construction of a financial rescue package and an operational strategy saying that the service does have huge potential. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Can I ask whether any member of the Auckland Regional Council who issued that statement has travelled on the train in the last year? 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.