Carter John: Business Law Reform Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Carter John: Business Law Reform Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:616;Page:12413] 
JOHN CARTER (National—Northland) 
: 
 I am pleased to see that the member Rodney Hide is here with us. I will raise a couple of points with regard to this legislation and I will ask some questions which Mr Hide when he has a moment to look through this will also want to ask. I have listened with interest to my colleagues Brian Connell and Pansy Wong as they explained what this legislation is about. I have just had the chance to read through Part 1 and that brought to my mind an article by Rodney Hide I read just recently. I think it was in relation to workplace safety. 
Rodney Hide 
: Oh yes. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Rodney Hide asked some questions about whether the wording in the legislation was correct and whether indeed the people who were being asked to comply with the legislation actually could—because it left out a couple of important parts a couple of tests that were really important. It said things like: “We shall all do our utmost to ensure that there is safety in the workplace.” Well that is good but the fact is that there is a limit to how much a business can afford. One cannot absolutely guarantee total safety. 
When I read through this part of the legislation the same sort of question comes to my mind. I wonder why we are being so prescriptive. Maybe the Minister will take a call and say: “Look it’s the history of how building societies operate.” I do not know. Maybe they are so dysfunctional that Parliament has to prescribe that they dot the i’s and cross the t’s in whatever they have to do. When I look at this legislation I wonder why we are passing legislation like this. Surely these organisations are smart enough and good enough to run their own operations? Yet here we are in Parliament prescribing things with regard to a summary of financial statements. We are telling these organisations how they must set them out when to do them how they do them who they have to give them to and if they do not do that they have to do this. I seriously ask— 
Pansy Wong 
: Where is the penalty? 
JOHN CARTER 
: My colleague is asking whether there is a penalty. I go back to my point: why is this Parliament spending time and taxpayers’ money on being so prescriptive? I do not understand that. We have a colleague in this House Ross Robertson who is known as “Red tape Ross Robertson”. He is always saying that we pass too much law and most of us on this side of the Chamber agree with that. Yet here we are— 
Rodney Hide 
: He had the Paper Reduction Bill. 
JOHN CARTER 
: The Paper Reduction Bill. This is classic legislation that Ross Robertson’s bill would cut right across if it could become law but it is not law. I ask the Minister seriously why this legislation dots the i’s and crosses the t’s. Who does it help? Does it help the building societies? [ 
Interruption 
] It helps the building societies. 
Hon Judith Tizard 
: Members of building societies. 
JOHN CARTER 
: It helps the members of the building societies. 
Hon Judith Tizard 
: Are you a member of a building society? 
JOHN CARTER 
: No I am not a member of a building society. But then I ask myself this question: why can the members of the building societies not go along to the meetings and set out the criteria the prescription or whatever it is themselves? Are they not able to do that? Maybe they cannot. Maybe the law we have passed in this country prevents them from doing so. 
Then one has to ask the question: if that is the case why is that so? Why do we not change the law so that they can make rules to suit themselves rather than members sitting here telling them how they can or cannot run their organisations? Surely they have far more interest in them and far more knowledge of the detail than members do. I would have thought so. 
I do not even know which building society we are talking about so how do I know whether it is right or wrong? Does anyone else know which building society it is? We are talking about building societies generally but seriously which member can tell me which law and which building society this bill will directly affect and do the members of that society agree? Do we know? 
Brian Connell 
: The Minister will take a call and tell us. 
JOHN CARTER 
: The Minister may be able to take a call but I just raise the point. 
Rodney Hide 
: Do we still have building societies? 
JOHN CARTER 
: That would go back to the fundamental question then—do we have to have building societies at all? Why do we have those sorts of things?