Henare PeeniHon PEENI HENARE (Associate Minister for Social Development): Tēnā koe Madam Assistant Speaker. Thank you for this opportunity. Well that's confirmed everything I believe of the former regime and what that is is turning a public service and a safety net such as the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) into a tool for punishing beneficiaries for punishing some of our most vulnerable people in this country. When somebody goes into the Ministry of Social Development they have to form a trust because let's face it not many of them want to be there. In fact if they had a choice they wouldn't go there but they go there because they need the safety net. So they go in there. They create a bond of trust with their case manager—a bond of trust with their case manager. And then when corrections come in without even fully understanding all of the complicated matters in this particular person's life they sever that lifeline. They take away that security net. They punish them.Once again this is what I continue to talk about with Whānau Ora: look at the family and not just the individual. Because you're not punishing just the individual; you are punishing the family. Children miss out. Loved ones miss out. Why? Because they are being punished. What we should be focusing on is how we support these people better to make sure that they are able to fulfil their community sentence where they are able to meet their obligations with the Ministry of Social Development and any other benefit that they might be receiving from the Ministry of Social Development.As a former case manager I can tell that side of the House actually you do that with trust. You do that with a bit of faith that actually people are wanting to do better for themselves. A proper relationship with a case manager whether they be from the Ministry of Social Development or in fact the parole officer or whoever it might be with the Department of Corrections—a more meaningful relationship actually will serve that person and the community better in the long run. I have no doubt about that—no doubt about that. We should be allowing these people actually to fulfil their sentences not by punishing them or beating them or scaring them. Actually we should be supporting them—supporting them—making sure that they have the tools to fulfil that sentence and also to meet their obligations.I mentioned the impact on families. I know that many of the submitters didn't support this bill and we know that quite a number of them actually highlighted the fact that it has unintended consequences that impact significantly on children. So we're saying now with this particular bill that the member's promoted forward into the House that we're going to be punishing those children. We know how hard it is for many of the families out there particularly in my electorate in Tāmaki Makaurau but I have no doubt that in many electorates across the country families are struggling out there. This is just another one of those tools to beat families into submission to actually force many family members including those who are penalised through this particular bill to actually go out and commit more crime to be able to make sure that they can provide for their families. The data is out there that many who find themselves in these situations and in times of hardship have gone to the Ministry of Social Development or have sought assistance and in the end have actually resorted to crime to make sure that their family or the individual themselves actually have what they need. Here is yet another tool to punish people.I accept that where there is continual failure to comply sure we need to start looking at this a lot more closely but I don't believe that it's actually in the form of punishment or punitive measures. I actually think it's more about making sure that we support these people more holistically making sure that they're able to meet their obligations. It's nothing new. Whānau Ora talk about it—a whānau-centred approach a holistic approach to make sure that we have a good hard look at why these people aren't meeting their obligations and we deal with those issues. We don't simply punish them because of failure to comply. Sure once again I admit if there's continual non-compliance then we have got an issue. But instead of going in making sure that they actually have the support to achieve their community sentence prior to the warnings—by all means that's what we should be doing. That's exactly what we should be doing. What we're actually requiring what we're asking now of our officials who deal with these matters in both corrections and the Ministry of Social Development is actually that they take a more human approach to it. I talked about bonds of trust whether you're in the Department of Corrections or of course the Ministry of Social Development.That raises another question actually: the capacity to enforce. It's quite simple to say that the Department of Corrections can go in and instruct the Ministry of Social Development to do this and it will be done and we'll all go home happy and the person who is continually non-compliant will be punished. It's actually not as simple as that—it's not as simple as that. As a former case manager and a former service centre manager and a former manager in Work and Income in the Ministry of Social Development it isn't as easy as that. It's not as simple as going [Clicks fingers]; gone. It's not like that.We know that there are steps in this bill to make sure that the person is compliant. Well in an ideal world and as we read it in this legislation that might be the case but actually in an MSD and a Department of Corrections that are currently under the pump under-resourced understaffed feeling the pressure of an explosion in prisoner numbers and an explosion in the need for their services and the safety net that's provided to them these people are struggling.Brett Hudson: Your problem now Peeni.Hon PEENI HENARE: It is in fact the challenge in front of this Government to fix that. Why? Because as the member across on the other side just said it's now our problem. He acknowledges that they actually created it and now we're stuck with it—now we're stuck with it. So our job then is to make sure that those people get the support they need to actually be meaningful contributors in our communities. So I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed by this type of bill that comes to the House.Also the member who promoted the bill to the House tonight talked about stigma. I say to the member that actually having dealt with many of those people who have come through the doors of MSD and also actually in corrections too in a former life the stigma is just as big there outside of the prison as it is inside. The member tried to offer that only for those who go inside of course the stigma's bigger. Well I'd argue actually the stigma's just as big on the outside—just as big on the outside—and one of the problems with that is of course all that does is create more non-compliance. All that does is actually scare them into more non-compliance not just for the individual but also for their associates and the family members that they associate with and I'm really concerned about that. Any kind of bill that forces more non-compliance by stigma and by discrimination I think is a poor bill.I just want to in my final couple of minutes talk about the discrimination. Many in this House know the numbers of Māori who enter into the justice system know the number of Māori in prison and know also the number of Māori who receive assistance through the Ministry of Social Development. We know and the evidence suggests it that discrimination by a mere fact of numbers of a particular ethnic group actually does exactly what I just talked about about stigma—stigma through discrimination—and that's a real problem. It will disproportionately affect Māori people it will disproportionately affect those in particular I'd argue as a good member for Tāmaki Makaurau in urban settings who actually have some rather complex needs—rather complex needs—and we know that on this side of the House actually a more progressive-thinking bill to actually assist these people in fulfilling their sentences and supporting them in the way that we should be is something that would be considered by this side of the House and by the Government. But at the moment this particular bill does not do that.So I'd encourage that side of the House to actually look into their hearts stop using legislation and the tools at the dispense of Government to actually punish our people and look at how we care for them better look at how we make stronger communities stronger families and stronger individuals because at the moment a bill like this doesn't do that. In fact it punishes them and takes a punitive approach to what essentially is a human issue. So therefore Madam Assistant Speaker I say to you and to this House we will not be supporting this bill.