Williams Poto; Borrows ChesterPOTO WILLIAMS (Labour—Christchurch East): I rise to take a call on the third reading of this bill. I just want to pick up where Minister Goodhew left off in terms of her raising the issue of the trust and confidence of the community sector in the charities registration process. What I want to say about that is actually it is my understanding and my belief that it was the eagle eyes of certain community organisations that saw within the Statutes Amendment Bill a possibility that rights of charitable organisations could be somewhat diminished should the Statutes Amendment Bill go through as it was originally drafted. So they actually presented to the Government Administration Committee and were very vocal about this particular section. Following briefings with the Ministry of Justice and the Department of Internal Affairs that section was actually carved out and became the Charities Amendment Bill.The organisations that submitted to this particular piece of legislation were doing so because they wanted to get a sense of confidence that their rights to appeal decisions made by the Charities Registration Board would still continue. Despite the various pieces of work done by officials and evidence presented by officials that particular sector was not actually feeling a sense of confidence that that would occur. Despite the assurances of the Minister that the bill was to ensure that their rights of appeal would remain in place the sector was not entirely comfortable with it. That led us to on the committee itself wanting to ensure that one particular section was withdrawn which we were able to do.What I want to do is also just reiterate something that the Minister said at the Committee stage because I challenged an issue that had been raised with me. I challenged the Minister on her ability to actually have a robust relationship with the sector. The Minister did say in respect of the comment on the last 8 years that I have been the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector now for 5 of them and I have seen a distinct change in terms of confidence and also the working relationship between the Government and this sector. I have to say that they know my number and I know theirs and we have a full and frank exchange of ideas and views."I thought that that was a very bold statement so I decided to actually ask members of the community and voluntary sector whether they agreed with that statement and I got a range of responses back from the sector. Here is one such response: "Absolutely not. There is no increase in confidence—in fact the opposite is true. The Minister should stop listening to the sycophants mainly the preferred providers run by large corporates and much loved by this Government and start looking at the lived reality of too many of its citizens."Another response that I think is very telling: "Even if we have a full and frank exchange of ideas and views it is a question of whether our perspective is given any credence. Often a Minister is so wedded to the party line that everything is wonderful and they just don't take us seriously. If we persist in pushing a view that there are problems with any particular Government policy then we can face retaliation through media and through subsequent funding decisions." This was a concern that has been raised with us by many community organisations over the last 5 or 6 years.This is the last comment I want to make and I think it is very telling as to the lack of confidence that the sector has in the Minister: "The other aspect is that the community organisations generally take into account in their dealings with Ministers as well as officials that no matter how inept or lacking in insight they are we still have to work with them so there is no gain in antagonising them needlessly. We put up with their wilful ignorant positions because we have no choice." That does not sound like a resounding vote of confidence in the Minister and her robust—The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows): I am sorry to interrupt the member but the time has come for me to leave the Chair. The debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day and the House is suspended. I will resume the Chair at 9 a.m. tomorrow for the extended sitting. Nō reira tēnā koutou tēnā koutou tēnā koutou katoa.Debate interrupted.Sitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Wednesday)"