Mark Ron; Williams PotoHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence): Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker. It's a pleasure to rise and speak for New Zealand First on this bill. I want to start by making a couple of comments. Firstly I listened with interest to the last speaker on the ACC legislation. I'm going to put it on the record that I think the Hon Ruth Dyson is the best Minister for ACC that I've ever seen in all my time in Parliament and I really appreciated the support we had down in Christchurch in those times.I want to say also that this is one of a couple of bills that the Government is presenting and they're both linked and it's good to see the second one here which seeks to reinstate the well-beings back into the Local Government Act—something that our party opposed and I as a mayor was subjected to. It'll be a very satisfying moment to see that legislation go through under this coalition Government.The Local Electoral Matters Bill is a bit of bittersweet for New Zealand First. We are supporting this legislation and we will be supporting the conversation that will ensue from the analysis of this bill by the select committee and the wider community particularly the Local Government New Zealand community.This bill which aims to principally enable some changes to the methods of voting at local government elections is possibly somewhat overdue. Looking back at some of the more recent history under the last term of Government it's understandable why the honourable Minister Louise Upston had some concerns and did not progress this legislation.I think looking back on the history it was very clear—if I step one step back again it's very obvious to everybody that there is something wrong with the local government elections when you consider that in the 2017 election we had something like amongst people in the cohort of 45 and over a 79 percent turnout. Those aged 65-69—88.2 percent turnout. Those aged 70 and over an 86.3 percent turnout.Ironically given all of the discussions as to how important young people feel it is to participate in Government and have their say and participate in formulating law and shaping this nation the lowest turnout is in the cohort from 25 to 29 where less than two-thirds—some 67.6 percent—turned out to vote.Now if you look at those numbers for the general election and compare them to the turnout in the 2016 local authority elections we're looking at 43 percent for council and 42 percent for mayor—43 percent and 42 percent as opposed to a turnout in the 2017 election which sits up in the 80s. Something's wrong.Now this legislation looks to enable—make it possible—for trials to be conducted within a frame of electronic voting. And I know that this has been something that some of my former family in Local Government New Zealand have championed and have thought would be the panacea and the silver bullet to overcoming this problem. I know it's a view that's held by many members of Parliament—that this is the silver bullet. This is going to shift the voting turnout in territorial authority elections from 40 percent to 80 percent.Well let me tell the House and put it on the record now exactly what I used to say as the Mayor of Carterton—and I'm looking across at the honourable member Lawrence Yule who was the president of Local Government New Zealand at the time and was unfortunate enough to have to listen to me expressing my views as forcefully as I did on some occasions. I said it then and I'll say it now: this will not save the problem.Electronic voting for local government elections in their current frame—and this is the message from New Zealand First through the Hansard to the committee. In the current frame in the current structure of local government elections this will not—electronic voting will not—solve the problem on its own.Fundamentally we need to accept that local government elections—it's so good to look around this House and see other members of Parliament who have spent time in local government. There's quite a few here. Fundamentally the way New Zealand First sees it is there's two things that stand out when you look at local government elections and compare them to central government. One local government elections are done by post. Well therein is a problem. And for many many years both sides of the competing factions—left and right—have accused the others of rorting the system by having volunteers taking postal envelopes out of letterboxes of houses that are not occupied and submitting them.Now those are accusations that are thrown around quite regularly. But what they essentially say is that the postal system is able to be rorted. What I also see is that there is a lot of stuff that is posted out that never ever gets picked up by the person for whom it is intended and if you look at the current housing crisis and look at the high transience levels of residents and particularly those in low socio-economic groups and those who live in low socio-economic areas we all know that there are many families who will change houses three to four times within an electoral cycle. So they will never see it. There is a high probability they may never receive their envelope. There is a clear possibility that someone else might receive it and fraudulently use it. Postal voting itself is an issue and now with the denigration of services—and where I live we only get rural post three times a week and we're only 6 kilometres out of Carterton. So postal voting is fraught.There is another problem: central government elections are held on one day. We physically have to get out of bed get dressed get spruced up go down to the polling booth and cast our vote. That in itself lends an air of significance and importance and value to the day and families do it together. Communities rugby teams who have got a game on netball teams that have got a game on—they talk about how they're going to get their vote done and then get to the game or get to the game and then when mum and dad have got all the kids at the netball and the footy organise themselves so they can be there for the Saturday morning netball be there for the Saturday morning football if it's on that particular day and then still get their vote done. They talk about it. They plan it. Postal voting doesn't give that opportunity—in fact it provides a negative.The next thing is the wad and the size of that booklet that comes in the mail and God forbid I should ever have the misfortune to live in Auckland and have to handle one of those books that comes in my mailbox. Because you're not only dealing with the mayor or the council you're dealing with the hospital boards and you're dealing with the liquor licensing board and you're dealing with the cat control board and the love-the-bird board and every other little board and every little community group that's going—and Maureen Pugh is looking at me and smiling. We know what those books look like and most people look at them open them and say Who the hell are these people? I have no idea who these people are." And they put it on the "too hard" place which is the mantelpiece or in their little box where they keep all their incoming mail and they say "I'll do it later." and they don't. They don't get around to it.Some of us would argue that if territorial authorities elections day were held on one day and we physically had to get up and go and vote and it was just about the council and just about the mayor those stats would change enormously. Some would say that electronic voting is going to cure it all and fix it all. Well I guess that's what select committee process is all about. So I'd simply say to the select committee good luck with your deliberations. Please listen to the submissions. Please analyse. Please apply some real common sense and think about the day that you go and vote in the general election and compare that to what we are confronted with in the territorial authority elections and come back with an answer for us all. Because everybody across the entire House I know is keen to improve those unacceptable figures of 40 percent turnouts but nobody that I've spoken to believes including myself that they have the full answer themselves. I say to the select committee—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): I apologise to the member; your time has expired."