Turei Metiria: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeTurei Metiria: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 24 March 2015. Volume:704;Page:2488. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister responsible for HNZC: Can he rule out selling Housing New Zealand-owned homes to private developers; if not will any sale be contingent on developers housing low-income or vulnerable tenants in those homes?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister responsible for HNZC): No I cannot rule that out. Housing New Zealand in the last year sold 600 houses and probably quite a number of those were sold to private developers. But anyone who wants to buy State houses that have low-income and vulnerable tenants in them will need to register as a community housing provider and meet the criteria set out in the regulations.Metiria Turei: How is it “perfectly logical” as he has said to sell a large slice of our $18 billion State home asset for cheap so property developers can make a profit from it?Hon BILL ENGLISH: In the first place Housing New Zealand has an ongoing sales policy and often it is selling houses that we do not need or that are in the wrong place or some of them have just become unsuitable to be lived in and cannot be upgraded at reasonable cost. In respect of the transactions that are coming up over the next 6 months or so there is a process of testing what the real values of those houses are. For instance many community providers believe those houses are not up to date on maintenance and therefore are overvalued when they are valued as if they can be sold for the best price on the day in the location that they are in. Those are exactly the things we are having discussions about over the next few months.Metiria Turei: Will the Minister cancel his plans if it turns out that property developers will buy State homes only if they do not have to house low-income or vulnerable tenants in them given his statement today that the purpose of this plan is to increase the supply of social housing and assist more people?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Neither property developers nor community housing providers are compelled to buy houses off the Government. If they do not want to do that—if they do not want to manage the tenants or own the stock which may be the wrong size in the wrong place—then they certainly do not have to do that. But we are finding that there is an opportunity to work with a whole range of groups to do a better job particularly in those locations where there is a high density of State housing and there is an opportunity to redevelop a sense of aspiration in those communities. If property developers can supply their expertise to do that well we are not going to turn them away that is for sure but it will have to be lined up with people who have the skills to manage tenants and redevelop communities.Metiria Turei: Was the Minister suggesting earlier that the Salvation Army was lying when it said when it rejected the State house sell-off programme that it will not improve people’s lives?Hon BILL ENGLISH: It is the member who is misrepresenting the Salvation Army. It did not reject the programme; what it said was that at this stage it does not want to participate in those particular transactions. In fact the Salvation Army has been an advocate for change and I am a bit surprised to hear the so-called radical Greens arguing for the status quo as if State housing in New Zealand is done so perfectly well that it cannot be done any better. That is a ridiculous position and the only people the Greens share it with are the Labour Party members.Metiria Turei: Why is his Government—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can I ask the member to start again please.Metiria Turei: Why is his Government so hell-bent on transferring New Zealand’s public resources assets like power companies and now our State homes to private business regardless of how bad this extremist policy is for New Zealanders?Hon BILL ENGLISH: In respect of State housing the policy that has been bad for New Zealanders is the one that for 50 years has focused on who owns the house. The policy that is going to be much better for New Zealanders is one that recognises the dignity of tenants and the aspirations they have for independence and a better life and that allows communities to redevelop themselves when they have been blighted by the policies supported by the Greens and Labour. We are not in favour of the status quo; we want to change it. Labour and the Greens are the last people in New Zealand who think that long-term State housing is the best we can do for Kiwi citizens. It is not. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am just waiting for the Hon Annette King.Metiria Turei: Can the Minister confirm that the only group to benefit from his fire sale will be property developers as the taxpayer loses a large asset the Government will pay more to these property developers through income-related rent subsidies and vulnerable families will still have no guarantee of a decent home?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No I do not agree with that. The beneficiaries of this policy will be first and foremost the tenants who will find themselves getting Government support that recognises their dignity and aspirations and shows a path to independence. Lots of other low-income families will benefit too because the Government is the most inefficient user of land in all our urban markets and through this process we will see the redevelopment and supply of that land to the lower-income market. That member supports planning policies that have driven poverty in low and middle income households by driving up the cost of housing. It is time the Greens changed their policies.Metiria Turei: Is this not the perfect deal for property developers—National will give away these homes for cheap along with guaranteed taxpayer-funded income streams and no obligation to house needy people; if so how is this not the sale of the century?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I just disagree with the member. It would be worth her while reconsidering the role of property developers. The Greens support smart growth that limits the supply of land which in the Auckland market has virtually dried up the supply of lower-value housing to that market. Those policies have had more impact on inequality than any other policy in New Zealand for low and middle income households. Why the Greens support that poverty-inducing policy is beyond me.