Finlayson Christopher: Arts Council of New Zealand Toi Aotearoa Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeFinlayson Christopher: Arts Council of New Zealand Toi Aotearoa Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 24 September 2013. Volume:693;Page:13667. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON (Minister for Arts Culture and Heritage): I was very disappointed that on this most auspicious day when Jacinda Ardern was appointed the arts spokesperson for the Labour Party she did not take the first call. I can understand why Mr Robertson is bitter and upset about the fact that having been rolled for deputy leader and leader he has now been rolled as arts spokesperson but I was hoping that Miss Ardern would make a contribution on this most important of bills the Arts Council of New Zealand Toi Aotearoa Bill. The Arts Council makes a tremendous contribution to the arts in New Zealand and indeed has done so since it was created by a National Government because the golden years of the arts always occur under a National Government. It has made a significant contribution across a wide range of art forms—for example fiction and I am sure that if David Cunliffe was minded to he could submit his CV for the Prime Minister’s Awards for Literary Achievement for fiction. There is a lot more to be said on that front in due course.But let me just say something because the heart of the debate and I am sure Mr Robertson would eventually have got on to it—Grant Robertson: Would have if only I’d been allowed to.Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: —had he had a third call. The heart of the debate really focuses on clauses 10 and 11. Mr Robertson seems to have a concern about the fact that the Arts Board and Te Waka Toi are to be replaced by this new more streamlined structure. Unlike Mr Robertson I can advise the Committee that I have direct experience of this body having served on the Arts Board of Creative New Zealand from 1995 to 2001. In what was truly a golden period I was chair of the Arts Board from 1998 to 2001. The Arts Council was responsible for determining strategy and policy and the Arts Board would deliver on that strategy.There was only one problem with this beautiful structure and that is that it was bonkers because the Arts Board itself was having to do a lot of the policy work. This funder-provider split may work well with widgets or in the health industry but it does not work particularly well with the arts. So what we are doing is streamlining the functions so that there will be one body comprising 13 members not 27 governors as currently exists under the existing legislation with all the administrative burdens that that imposes. There will be one body and that will be created under what is now clause 10.It is very important as there have been some very legitimate concerns raised about the future of Te Waka Toi that one focuses—and I suggest Mr Robertson pick up his bill and look very closely as I go through it—on clause 10(4). What that provides is that for the first time at least four members of the council are indeed to be “persons who in the opinion of the Minister after consultation with the Minister ofMāori Affairs are qualified for appointment having regard to their knowledge” of matters like tikangaMāori. So that is the first point. For the first time there will be four designated members to sit at the council table and they must have those qualifications.But it does not necessarily follow from that that Te Waka Toi will vanish. I invite Mr Robertson to focus on clause 11 because that provides that the four members of the Arts Council who fulfil the qualifications that I have just spoken of are to form a committee of the Arts Council and—Grant Robertson: Right—with no power Chris.Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Well go to subclause 2 Mr Robertson. It is important in the Committee stage not to have some lightweight rant but to focus on the work.Grant Robertson: To “give advice”—give advice.Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Wrong. Look at subclause 2. The functions of the committee are “to give advice … and any other functions that the Arts Council delegates to the committee.”Grant Robertson: Oh that will do it. That will do it!Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: Why does he not read the bill because he would see that Te Waka Toi or the successor body could be given a great deal of things to do—Grant Robertson: They’re subservient Chris. That’s what you want. You want them to be subservient.Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: —and it is not a question of being subservient but a question of making sure there are much more direct linkages between the committee established under clause 11 and the committee established under clause 10. I say this to Mr Robertson for two reasons: one a simple reading of the statute which I am disappointed he has not undertaken and two from the experience that I have had as chair of the Arts Board of Creative New Zealand.Then I come to clause 10(5) which provides that for the first time two persons by reason of their knowledge of the arts and of the traditions and cultures of Pacific Island peoples are to serve on the Arts Council. The Pacific committee in my time as chair of the Arts Board was a subcommittee of the Arts Board. It had very little funding. It was disconnected from the Arts Council. Now what we have is a much more streamlined body but one where there is an ability of those who have a particular knowledge of tikangaMāori or of Pacific cultures to make a contribution to that important strategic body that is the Arts Council.So the heart of the debate on Part 1 is not all the nonsense that Mr Robertson was talking about but is really focusing laser-like on clauses 10 and 11. That is what I invite members to do because it is all very well to stand up and give one of those raves that he is accustomed to giving as the now associate spokesperson on the arts. As I say I was very disappointed that he did not yield to the new spokesperson but that is part of the ongoing divisions of the Labour Party I guess.Jacinda Ardern: He just doesn’t share or play well with others does he? He does not play well with others.Hon CHRISTOPHER FINLAYSON: He does not. He is not a sharing caring person. That is what distinguishes Mr Robertson from me. But you see it is clauses 10 and 11 that are what one has to focus on so I will sit down now so that the newlyminted rising star of the Labour Party the person who has gone from rising star to elder stateswoman with no intervening period Jacinda Ardern can stand up and tell us her views on clauses 10 and 11.