Carter John: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
Carter John: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Volume:615;Page:10990] 
JOHN CARTER (National—Northland) 
: 
 I just want to make a comment to the member who has resumed his seat. Volume does not necessarily mean that it is a good speech. He might want to reflect on that. 
Hon Paul Swain 
: Sometimes. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Sometimes it does but not always. I want to refer to one or two issues— 
Jill Pettis 
: Sometimes it helps to yell like hell. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Sometimes volume from the junior Government whip can have an impact on us I must say but not all the time. I want to talk about a couple of issues. I listened to one or two of the speeches made from the Government benches and I also listened with some interest to the speech made by Dail Jones the former National Party member who talked about Maori seats—as did Dave Hereora. I want to pick up a couple of issues that are important for this Parliament to know about in that context and also particularly important for commentators. Often they talk about issues on which they do not have enough information. 
I want to make this point first of all: part of the policy of the National Party at the last election as it will be at this one is that it is our view that we do not now need the Maori seats. I want to put this before this Parliament because I have not heard this issue discussed yet. [ 
Interruption 
] It is this point if members will let me make it: 51 percent of people in New Zealand who claim they are of Maori descent are on the Maori roll and 49 percent of people who claim they are of Maori descent are on the general roll. That is the first point. So about half of the people of Maori descent who are enrolled are on the Maori roll and about half are on the general roll. I want to make this claim—and I think I certainly can do it factually on the basis of the information we have—aside from the Maori seats I represent more Maori people in the seat of Northland than are represented in any other seat in New Zealand. 
Jill Pettis 
: What do you mean by Maori descent? 
JOHN CARTER 
: I mean people who claim they are of Maori descent and who have indicated that. Nearly 6000 people are on the Northland roll in that category. I say also that there are even some Maori members in this House who cannot claim to represent the same number of Maori people that I do. It is an important point to understand— 
Jill Pettis 
: What do you mean by that? 
JOHN CARTER 
: Well there are people in this House who will stand up and say: “I will speak for Maori; I will speak for this or that.” Quite honestly there is not one person in this House or indeed this nation who can do so. There are some who can speak—maybe—for their iwi. Maybe they can but I doubt that. But there is no one who can speak generally for Maori because they are of different groups and different views—and so they should be. 
 I want to say to some of the Maori members who are in here talking about things Maori that I am doing something that—to my knowledge and I am absolutely certain that I am right—none of them have bothered to do at all and that is to consult the Maori people whom they represent before coming here to speak. Today I have sent a survey out to people in the Northland electorate who claim they are of Maori descent and I have asked them some questions because I want to know what their views are. I will certainly make that public I want to make it public because I am certain we are going to get a different point of view from those people who are enrolled on the general roll for the seat of Northland for example as opposed to those who are enrolled on the Maori roll. I am absolutely certain of that and if I am not right I will still reveal the results so that members will know that I was wrong and they were right and that is OK. But the fact is I am absolutely confident that we will get a different point of view. 
What will be of interest is this: the Maori members will have to say “Well hang on a minute perhaps we are not representing the Maori view completely. Maybe we are representing a sector of it.” They certainly are representing a sector of it and I do not deny that. But the people who speak for Maori—the people whom the commentators run to and talk to—are often a small minority in a select group and indeed they do not bother to actually talk to the people at a grass-roots level as they do not with non-Maori. 
One of the interesting things that has happened in this debate as a consequence of Don Brash’s Orewa speech is that the commentators got it wrong. They were out of step with public opinion. Recent polls show there is an issue that the public are interested in and want to know about. That is why I decided I would undertake the survey in the seat of Northland. 
Jill Pettis 
: That’s an old National trick. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Maybe. The member can call it what she likes or members can call it what they like but it is actually fact. It is something at least that I have done genuinely. I will declare the results in the House if I have the opportunity but I will certainly make them public so that everyone can share them because it is something of interest. 
I turn now to an issue that is also of concern to me as a representative of the seat of Northland and that is the way in which the Waitangi Day celebrations were carried out in Northland. The sad thing is that apart from one or two silly people—can I call them idiots Mr Speaker because a very small minority were—Waitangi Day in Northland was a great day. It was a lot of fun and in particular the Friday was a very good day. There were a whole lot of activities going on and hundreds of people across all races were enjoying themselves just mixing and getting on and having a day of celebration. The sad thing is that we did not see any of that at all in the media—I should say we saw very little of it because there were a couple of shots of it. But sadly the focus goes on those people who want to make a fuss. 
I am concerned about and—as other members have been—critical of the way in which Te Tii Marae organises itself to the extent that I am now of the view that we should bypass that marae completely. It is sad that we have got to this stage with that marae as it certainly has a lot of history around Waitangi Day. It is where Maori met and discussed the treaty before they went up to the top marae the site where the treaty was signed. If the trustees of that marae cannot organise the day properly and hold up the conventions of Maori—where when one approaches the marae one is welcomed on and asked to reply and following that the debate begins—then Te Tii Marae has to be bypassed and we should make it irrelevant. If correct protocol cannot continue on that marae then I say that we should not go there. I join with others who have made that statement already and I also say that we should not give it any taxpayer funding. 
We should look for another marae in Northland—there are many that would be only too happy to host us—and I would be pleased to attend. In fact I am sure that Sir James Henare’s marae would be only too happy to be the focal point of our Waitangi Day celebrations and indeed what a gesture it would be to such a fine gentleman. It would be an excellent way in which we could celebrate and I am absolutely certain that the people of Otiria Marae would run the whole thing in the way it should be run. The protocols would be observed those who wanted to come would be welcomed on and then there would be discussion as there used to be when Sir James was on that marae. There used to be very good discussions at the time that he was there and I am certain that that tradition would continue today. 
I think it is a sad indictment on Ngapuhi and many of the elders are disturbed and disappointed and have said so publicly. So are Northlanders. It is sad for us that we get this disgrace foisted on us when other areas around New Zealand can have a day of celebration of recognition of debate where it is needed but they do it without the stupidity that goes on in Waitangi. As one of the representatives of the area of Northland I for one say that we have had enough. I do not intend to go back in the future unless the whole thing changes. I will certainly go to the upper marae as it is now commonly known. I will certainly participate in that. But until we can be sure that the system is going to work for New Zealand and for Northlanders I do not intend to go to Te Tii Marae. As Don Brash has said we want to go and debate the issues that are important to all New Zealanders. We do need to have legislation that is colour-blind. We need to have debates. 
The worry I have is that finally we have a leader of New Zealand who has the courage to talk about something New Zealanders have wanted to talk about for a long long time and all we get now is the critics saying that we should not talk about these things. Well too bad! We are going to. I want to. I have a future in this country through my children and grandchildren. They are part of this country and they have every right to have this discussion. The National Party will ensure that this discussion takes place. It already is taking place and will continue to do so.