11. Question No. 11—EducationDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of EducationQuestion No. 11—Education11. Dr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all his statements policies and actions around the Reform of Vocational Education?Hon TRACEY MARTIN (Associate Minister of Education) on behalf of the Minister of Education: Yes in the context in which they were made.Dr Shane Reti: Will 1000 or more polytechnic jobs be lost in the documented $130 million of management team savings?Hon TRACEY MARTIN: It is impossible to predict what is the outcome of one of the biggest changes most positive and aspirational changes to—Dan Bidois: Positive!Hon TRACEY MARTIN: —vocational education this country has ever seen but it is more likely—Dan Bidois: It's a shocker.Hon TRACEY MARTIN: —that there will be increased employment around training from the perspective that we are shifting from training just inside the classroom to actually a more comprehensive on-the-job training to better futureproof New Zealand's workforce.SPEAKER: Before Dr Reti takes his question I'm just going to warn Mr Bidois that when he is yelling out next to an open mike it gets to be very loud and in this case probably louder than the Minister. He's got to learn to—[Gestures for member to be quiet] Thank you.Dr Shane Reti: Is it correct that the documented base case describing the merger of NorthTec Western Institute of Technology at Taranaki and Te Tai Poutini was never discussed with the chief executives of those organisations?Hon TRACEY MARTIN: On behalf of the Minister unfortunately I am unable to confirm or deny because I don't have that level of detail with me. If that member wishes to put that question down in writing I'm sure that the Minister of Education would be happy to answer it.Dr Shane Reti: Will up to $400 million be spent establishing the new mega polytechnic despite the reforms losing 18000 learners and 2310 apprentices per year?Hon TRACEY MARTIN: It is possible that that is the amount that the new reforms may cost. Unfortunately the member is taking the worst case scenario inside the business case around the loss of learners. Unfortunately the biggest threat at the moment to the loss of learners and apprentices is that member.Hon Grant Robertson: Would the Minister believe it to be correct that if the Government did nothing and allowed further polytechnics to go broke that would absolutely certainly lead to job losses?Hon TRACEY MARTIN: That is absolutely certain. It does appear however that that may have been the plan of the previous Government. Dr Shane Reti: Would the Minister stop the reforms if he knew the $400 million establishing the new mega-polytechnic is more than the yearly cost of treating all New Zealand women with advanced breast cancer drugs for the next decade? SPEAKER: Order! I'm going to ask the member to rephrase the question which stays within the responsibility of this Minister.Dr Shane Reti: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question started off with the Minister—SPEAKER: I listened to the question very carefully and I'm allowing the member one chance to rephrase it. If he argues he loses it. Dr Shane Reti: OK. Has the—let me rephrase it then. I'll re-pose another question if I may if you're asking me to. SPEAKER: The member can do that. Dr Shane Reti: Are further fees-free underspends reprioritised to pay for these reforms? Hon TRACEY MARTIN: To the best of my knowledge no.