Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:647;Page:16597] 
9.  
Dr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National—Rodney) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: Does he have confidence in the New Zealand Immigration Service; if so why? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 Yes but there is always room for improvement. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: Can the Minister confirm reports by the Public Service Association (PSA) that at least two different immigration officers have made claims that staff under pressure from management in the Immigration Service are granting permits to unsuitable applicants—a similar allegation to the one raised by staff of the Pacific division in the Oughton report? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: No I cannot confirm that. The member will know that the PSA has made that claim— 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: Why don’t you ask? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: If the member would just settle down! The PSA made that claim—[ 
Interruption 
] Just keep calm; I know that it is difficult for the member. The PSA as the member will know made that claim on the radio this morning. The member will also know that the radio report alluded to an anonymous claim—a number of allegations—and I say to the member that that matter is now in the purview of the Auditor-General’s inquiry. I will not pre-empt that inquiry and I say that if the PSA other members or other stakeholders in the community have information they should bring it forward so that the Auditor-General’s inquiry can duly examine it. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What reports has the Minister received on the following comments made on  
Morning Report 
 by one Dr Lockwood Smith: “You know I’ve been getting this kind of allegation seeping out of the woodwork over recent months and it’s really troubling. I mean there’s really a serious culture problem with the management of Immigration New Zealand.” when in fact back on 30 June 1995 50888 people were progressed through the Immigration Service despite the fact that the then target was 25000; what is new and why has it not been fixed up? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I am aware of the comments made by the Hon Dr Lockwood Smith that the member alludes to. I am also aware that Dr Lockwood Smith also noted on the radio this morning that the allegations that had been sent to the Auditor-General were anonymous and the veracity—and I use my words not his—of them has yet to be tested. He ought to be careful. I will say that half a million transactions per year occur within the department which is staffed by 1200 men and women. No inappropriate behaviour is acceptable. I will also say that under this Government an internal— 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: It’s a mess. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Settle down! An internal investigation— 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: It’s a mess. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I tell Dr Smith to keep calm. An internal investigations unit has been set up and that stands in stark contrast to the situation when the National Party was in Government. We do not have any figures on complaints made then because that Government never had any internal investigations unit. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: How can Parliament have confidence that the Immigration Service is protecting our national security when an immigration officer states—[ 
Interruption 
] Madam Speaker I am very happy to repeat my question if the members— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Just continue. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: How can Parliament have confidence that the Immigration Service is protecting our national security when an immigration officer states: “applicants from various high risk countries or dishonest applicants with high risk backgrounds are having their false jobs false qualifications false marriages all glossed over by immigration staff and getting their temporary permits all approved.” and: “managers pressure the staff and say “risk manage it’ just give all applicants a temporary … permit.”? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: The member quotes from a series of allegations made to the Auditor-General and the media today. As he himself said on the radio this morning we have to be guarded in terms of the veracity of them and it will be for the Auditor-General and the other reviews and inquiries to judge that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: To use the phrase of a previous questioner today what is the Government to make of this comment in respect of the population policy: “Officials noted that there was no point adhering to it when we have no population policy.”—the  
Independent  
of 8 December 1995? The same circumstance applies now but back then when a party and its leader raised the question of what was going on in the Immigration Service Lockwood Smith called that leader xenophobic and racist. That is hypocrisy at the worst level. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: All I can say is that the member’s question stands and the record will show that he is indeed correct. But I would also point out that as I have said before half a million transactions are done by this department and there are 1200 folks in it. No improper behaviour is acceptable. Many of the high-profile complaints that have been raised have been raised by staff and the processes in place to investigate them stand in stark contrast to the situation under that member’s Government. We have an internal investigations unit which is now separate from the Immigration Service; it is in the corporate division of the Department of Labour. Under the National Government no complaints were compiled and no figures were compiled or retained because there were no investigations unit investigations because there was no investigations unit in place at all. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: How can the public have confidence in the Immigration Service given claims by an immigration officer that “There is an endemic culture within this Immigration office where staff just approve virtually all temporary work permits with little thought or concern of checking the authenticity of documents job offers viability of businesses or relationships.” and that “These work practises are endorsed by all tiers of our branch management.”? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: The member quotes from allegations that have been made. Those allegations have yet to be tested and I will not prejudge an Auditor-General’s inquiry. The member has already made his judgment on an anonymous letter; he has made his judgment and he has the right to do that. I welcome other stakeholders and other members in the community who have information; they should bring it forward and the Auditor-General’s inquiry will test its veracity or lack of it. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: Why 1 year after the Auditor-General released his damning June 2007 report into the Immigration Service’s management of immigration identity fraud are we still hearing revelations about an “endemic culture” of approving applications with little concern for “checking the authenticity of documents job offers viability of businesses or relationships.”; why has nothing been done? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: In answer to the latter part of the question as I have said unlike his Government we investigate allegations and we have an investigations unit. [ 
Interruption 
] I think stretcher bearers are required again for those members! As to the first part of the member’s question he uses the correct word: they are “revelations” not facts and not issues whose veracity has been tested. They will be tested by the Auditor-General. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I seek leave to table a letter addressed to me by an official of Immigration New Zealand in which he makes very serious allegations. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.