Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:609;Page:6554] 
7.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (NZ National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: What advice has he sought from his officials on Government legislation to extinguish any right Maori may have had to claim customary title to the seabed and foreshore following last week’s Court of Appeal decision and when did he receive that advice? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 None because that was not the decision that was taken. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. For me to be able to lodge question No 7 I had to provide verification to the Clerk’s Office that that was exactly what had been publicly stated by the Government. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: The member had to provide authentication which usually comes in the form of a newspaper report. I think all members of this House know that newspaper reports are not always accurate. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question was asked and the Minister gave what I thought was the most direct answer of the lot. He actually said no. I heard the answer very clearly. The answer did address the question. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does the Minister of Maori Affairs agree with the statement by the “Eternal-General” on National Radio announcing the decision that “The legislation will be clarified so that the parties know that title to the seabeds and foreshore will be held by the Crown in the interests of all New Zealanders? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: As defined the Government is working out how to reconcile customary rights with all New Zealanders’ ability to access the foreshore and seabed. 
Darren Hughes 
: What advice have the Minister’s officials provided on the Court of Appeal decision regarding the Marlborough foreshore and seabed? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: My officials provided me with a briefing paper on Tuesday 24 June 2003. The paper sets out the history of the Marlborough foreshore and seabed case and outlines the Court of Appeal decision. 
Stephen Franks 
: What does the Minister think that Maori customary access and use rights mean if Pakeha have been guaranteed by the Attorney-General to have exactly the same rights of access and use of New Zealand beaches and inshore seabeds? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That is what this Government is working on at this moment. We take this issue very seriously. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Can he clarify whether he stands by the statement issued and signed by him yesterday that: “The Maori caucus is clear that customary use flows from customary title and if the title is lost the rights of tangata whenua become privileges granted by the Crown.” or by the statement made by the “Eternal-General” that this Government would pass legislation— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The phrase is the “Attorney-General”; the member has twice said the “Eternal”— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: —Attorney-General— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not think that even the Attorney-General thinks that she will be eternal. I took no notice the first time but the member should reword the question. I suggest he starts again. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does the Minister stand by the statement issued and signed last night that: “The Maori caucus is clear that customary use flows from customary title and if the title is lost the rights of tangata whenua become privileges granted by the Crown.” or by the statement made by Margaret Wilson the Attorney-General that the legislation will be clarified so that the title to the seabed and foreshore will be held by the Crown—which is the correct statement? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The issue around customary rights is something that needs to be defined and that is what the committee has been set up for—and I want to say that with eternal earnest. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think bringing the Almighty into questions is always difficult. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: In what precise way on this issue have Maori been advantaged by having him as Minister of Maori Affairs? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I am a member of Te Aitanga-a-Hauiti sub-hapu. I am a very important Maori where I come from. I am recognised as such—and more Maori people in this country know me than know you. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: This is members’ day. Members are in their own time. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not think it brings this House into order for the Minister of Maori Affairs to pretend he is more well-known in New Zealand than the Speaker of this great House. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: He’s the “Eternal Speaker”. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am not the “Eternal Speaker” either. I have just passed the mid-point in my career I say. Will the Minister please address his remarks not to me but to other members of the House by speaking in the third person. We will now carry on. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Will the Minister of Maori Affairs support legislation that as announced by Margaret Wilson would clarify that ownership title of the foreshore and seabed would rest with the Crown? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That legislation will reconcile the discussions that we are about to have as a joint group between the Maori caucus and the committee set up by this very strong Government. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We have had a disturbing trend here today. The Attorney-General has been on the radio and in the newspapers quoting one line of action and so has the Prime Minister. Yet when we come to the House to ask for an affirmation in this House of that very position all that we get is obfuscation and any old answer to the extent that we have wasted a whole lot of questions—and no one in the House knows today what the Minister’s position is or what the Government’s position is. But they are out there in the public of course with a different spin. Frankly that should not be allowed and if that is the—[ 
Interruption 
] The Prime Minister can laugh. She will laugh on the other side of her face in 2 years’ time. The reality is that she said one thing out in the public—the evidence has come before this House and the Clerk’s Office—and in this House she will not confirm or deny anything. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: At the end of question time we have a general debate. That is when that issue can be raised. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect question time is when questions are asked and one would expect them to be answered. Frankly this House has been treated with utter contempt by Ministers refusing to answer simple direct questions and they are being allowed to get away with it. For my part and my party’s part we do not like—and we will not accept—that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. That is not correct and the member knows it. As far as I am concerned over many many years in this Government and indeed in previous Governments—and I have been here a long time as has the member—there has been little change to questions and answers. I am not responsible for the quality of answers or the quality of questions. That is up to the members of this House.