Ryall Tony: Mixed Ownership Model Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Ryall Tony: Mixed Ownership Model Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Sitting date: 19 June 2012. Volume:681;Page:3058. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises) 
: 
 That was a most interesting contribution from Mr Clayton Cosgrove and more interesting by the fact that he mentioned the words “lineage” and “history”. Well let us look at his lineage and history in terms of his involvement in politics. He was one of the key men backing the Rt Hon Mike Moore senior Labour MP in the Government of 1984-1990— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Although I share the Minister’s respect for the Rt Hon Mike Moore I think I was about 14 years of age and I ask what the hell this has to do with the Mixed Ownership Model Bill. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: It is hardly a point of order but I was going to say to the member that the member is replying to a speech and he is able to do so under Speakers’ ruling 46/2. But of course that goes on for only a limited time. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. He is just not allowed to blatantly mislead the Committee. I am not going to say that the member Clayton Cosgrove looks his age but I think all of us know that he was not in the Minister’s office when the Rt Hon Mike Moore was a Minister and at least for most of that time he was at school. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I was indeed. It’s a great school. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: A debatable issue mind you but I appreciate the point that has been made. I am going to call the Hon Tony Ryall. Your time will start again. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: He was certainly very active out there on the streets in support of Mike Moore. The point is this. Mike Moore Annette King Phil Goff and Trevor Mallard all traipsed through that lobby to sell almost $10 billion of public assets during the 1980s. Mike Moore Annette King and Phil Goff—until recently the shining lights of the Labour Party opposite—together with Trevor Mallard under urgency time and time again went in and flogged off $10 billion worth of public assets. 
Parliament could not be debating the Mixed Ownership Model Bill at a more important time. When you look at what is happening on our television screens every night—what is happening in Greece what is happening in Spain what is happening in Portugal—countries that are not in control of their debt are losing control of their destiny. Unless Governments take decisive action to control their debt then their economic situation gets a lot worse. 
It is worth reflecting on debt because this bill is about helping New Zealand control our debt. Controlling our debt becomes more important by the week when you see what is happening internationally. In 2008 when this Government led this country when it took over we had a national debt of $8 billion. Today it is $52 billion as this Government has moved to soften the sharp edges of recession. In 3 years’ time it will be $72 billion—$72 billion. New Zealand cannot let its debt get out of control and that is the reason why this Government is taking decisive action to do this. It is part of a wider plan that this Government has to help control debt and manage our economy into the future. 
But over the next few hours of this debate members are going to hear a lot of disingenuous arguments from the members opposite. You are going to hear as you did with Mr Norman that this bill does not reduce debt. That is what he said: this does not reduce debt. Well I would just look at the 2012 Budget Policy Statement—he did not mention that—where it says quite clearly: “The overall fiscal impact of mixed ownership is: a reduction in net debt.” So you will hear about that but the fact is that it does help control debt. The proceeds go into a Future Investment Fund which is used to invest in schools hospitals and other assets. 
The second argument which has just come up in the last few days is that this will push up prices. But it is completely inconsistent with the speech that Mr Cosgrove just gave. Mr Cosgrove said he brought the chairmen of the boards before the powerful Finance and Expenditure Committee and they all said they would not do anything different whether the entities were public or private. That is what Mr Cosgrove said. All three chairs said they would do nothing different whether the entities were public or private. But then on the other hand we have got the lefties saying that if they are privately owned the directors are going to put the prices up. So on the one hand they say it does not matter who the owners are and then on the other hand they say that if you change the ownership up go the prices. 
The fact is that there is a highly competitive electricity market in New Zealand today—highly competitive. In the last few months 420000 New Zealanders changed power companies—420000 people changed power companies. The Labour Party says New Zealanders are so dumb they do not know how to change power companies and so they are all being ripped off by private electricity companies. Many of those 420000 people changed to private companies. They changed to all sorts of companies as a result of the power switch and that is very very positive and a good sign. 
 The third thing that members opposite are going to tell you is that these shares are all going to be sold off to foreigners. Did you hear the story today? Mr Shearer said it. These New Zealanders are going to get these shares then they are going to be offered a price and then they are going to sell them to the foreigners. Well I am standing on this side of the Chamber because actually I trust New Zealanders to hold shares. The fact is that that side of the Chamber does not think that ordinary New Zealanders are good enough to own shares. Those members opposite do not think New Zealanders are good enough to own shares. Who do they think these uppity people are who think they can own shares? Who are they—these electricians—who think they might be able to put some of their savings into shares? Who are these uppity tradespeople who may want to buy some shares? They cannot be trusted! They will flog them off at the first opportunity! We in the Government do not believe that. That is the attitude of the Labour Party and the Green Party to ordinary people: they cannot be trusted to own shares. We think they can. 
We think the Port of Tauranga is a perfect example of how sensible New Zealanders make decisions. Port of Tauranga is 55 percent owned by local government which is like central government and 45 percent is owned on the sharemarket. Those shares were issued generally to New Zealanders. If you follow the Labour Party’s line all of those shares would have been sold to foreigners because you cannot trust ordinary people to own shares can you? That is what Labour says. In respect of the Port of Tauranga which is a mixed-ownership model type of company on the New Zealand Exchange the New Zealanders are buying out the foreigners. The New Zealanders are buying out the foreigners because we trust them. 
Scrutiny of the companies is another argument that you are going to hear. The fact is that because the companies will not necessarily appear before the Finance and Expenditure Committee—Air New Zealand does; it is a mixed-ownership model company—there will not be any good scrutiny of these companies. Well they appear once a year before the all-powerful Finance and Expenditure Committee but in the end what is going to hold these companies to the fire is the continuous disclosure required by the New Zealand Exchange and the fact that very smart analysts are going to be looking at these companies to see how they are being managed and are performing and actually are going to be helping to improve the value of the Crown investment as well as the private investment. 
 So this legislation does a couple of things that these people opposite would never want to admit. It legislates 51 percent New Zealand Government control full stop for all time—51 percent full Government ownership for all time full stop—and it puts a limit of 10 percent on any one shareholder. There will be 51 percent Government control and a 10 percent limit on any shareholder. That is important and that is what is being enshrined in this legislation. 
Over the next few minutes and hours members opposite and members listening will hear a lot of arguments but remember that they are being made by the party that sold almost $10 billion of public assets. But here is the difference: Labour never told the public it was going to do it. When Annette King Phil Goff and all the other members on the front bench—David Parker Grant Robertson and Clayton Cosgrove—were out campaigning for Labour in the 1980s did they ever tell the people Labour was going to sell Telecom to the Americans and Fay Richwhite? No. Did they ever go to tell them that it was going to sell a whole lot of the forestry rights to foreigners? No. Did they ever tell them Labour was going to sell the Shipping Corporation to foreigners? No. Labour kept it a secret in the 1987 election—it kept it a secret that it was going to have these sales. 
This Government has done the complete opposite. We campaigned on this issue. We told everybody about this plan and these five companies in January 2011. We were not like Phil Goff Annette King and Trevor Mallard who kept it quiet and never got a mandate for it. This party got a mandate in the election. That party spent its entire campaign—its feckless hopeless campaign—on this single issue and got the lowest vote it has ever had in the history of the Labour Party. It was the lowest vote it has ever had in the history of the Labour Party. This party— 
Paul Goldsmith 
: In 1915 it was worse. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: Oh in 1915 it got lower. Right but it was the lowest vote ever in the history of the Labour Party. This party got the highest vote ever in the history of an MMP election. So the contrast could not be more stark. When Labour sold $10 billion worth of assets it never told anyone it never got a mandate and it did it under urgency. This party campaigned on it for a year we have been upfront about it and we are not rushing this legislation through. There was a select committee process; there was no select committee process when Labour sold $10 billion worth of assets. This party has followed a very good rigorous publicly endorsed open process and the fact is that this Government is making the important decisions as part of a wider plan to help get this country moving forward.