Sowry Roger: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
Sowry Roger: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:608;Page:5402] 
Hon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader—NZ National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I have been watching the time quite carefully and I have seen that this debate on the title has gone on for a fraction over an hour. There has been a habit in the Committee in normal time once a bill has been to a select committee and is being debated on a part by part basis for closures to be accepted after about an hour. So in your accepting the closure you have followed the procedure that has become the habit of the Committee. But there has long—as long as I have been here in Parliament—been a tradition that when a bill comes in under urgency and has not been to a select committee two things happen: the debate is usually allowed to be wider—and you have done that—and it is usually allowed to go on for a longer period of time. I suggest that you have not allowed the latter of those two things to occur. If we get into a position where as presiding officer you stay with the conventions that have been established when a bill has gone to a select committee then there is no counter on a Government that chooses not to send a bill to a select committee. Let me give you an example if I may because this is a very very important issue. The Government found the resource management legislation before the House and realised it would take a long time to get that through so it decided to introduce a Supplementary Order Paper that sort of crunched 14 parts down into 3 parts. It could have done that and then pushed that legislation on as a new bill through the House without its going to a select committee. Speakers’ conventions—and I suspect Speakers’ rulings but certainly Speakers’ conventions—would have been for an extended debate on each of those parts because the bill had not been to a select committee. The Government sent the bill to a select committee albeit only for a week and so therefore avoided that. 
This bill has not been to a select committee. We are sitting under extraordinary urgency for only the third time since 1990 and I suggest that if you start accepting closures after what is only an hour of debate then you really are severely limiting the Opposition and its role in this Chamber. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I am the sole judge of when to take the closure and this debate has gone on for 1 hour and 10 minutes. I have accepted the closure. Standing Order 139 is clear. All those— 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: I raise a point of order— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: It is out of order to debate the closure motion. 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Is this a new point of order? 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: Absolutely! I want a ruling from you that as we move through this bill you and the other presiding officers will take into account on the parts we are moving through— 
Jill Pettis 
: You can’t ask the Chair to do that. 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: Is Mrs Pettis to be allowed to interrupt? I want a ruling from you that as we move through the parts of this bill you will take into account the fact that this bill has not been to a select committee and will abide by the convention that has been held for a long time in this House that bills that have not been the subject of consideration by a select committee are given a longer time of debate in the Committee. I would ask that you give that ruling now before we go on to the following parts. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: As the member knows the presiding officer at the time is the sole judge of relevancy. We will now put the vote. All those in favour— 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Is it a new point of order— 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: Yes. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: —because we cannot debate the closure. 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: I am not debating the closure. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I think you are coming very close to it— 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: Well will you hear my point of order? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: If it is a new point of order. 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: I asked specifically whether you were prepared to say to the Committee that as we go through this debate on the following parts as the presiding officer you will follow the convention and allow extra time for debate because this bill has not been to a select committee. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Certainly the presiding officers are aware that this bill has not gone to a select committee. 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: No I have dealt with the matter. 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: No you have not. I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: No no. It is my determination that I have dealt with the matter. Presiding officers clearly know that this bill has not gone to a select committee. OK? That will be taken into account. 
Hon ROGER SOWRY 
: Thank you. That is what I asked for.