Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:635;Page:6576] 
3.  
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
 to the  
Minister of Housing 
: When did Housing New Zealand Corporation first learn that Rana Martin was allegedly subletting her State house in Christchurch? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing) 
: 
 Firstly I would like to say what a pleasure it is to see our former Prime Minister Mike Moore in the Chamber. Secondly in answer to Mr Heatley’s question on 3 October 2006. 
Phil Heatley 
: Why did a Housing New Zealand Corporation spokesperson say that it only “began an investigation last month” when neighbours contacted Ruth Dyson’s office in June and Jim Anderton’s office in July and spoke to Ruth Dyson in person in September telling it that Rana Martin owns her own home and sublets her State house and why was no action taken way back then? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It is an interesting question. I think you have to work through what the implications of the question are. Its implications are that somehow or other the Minister is responsible for whatever happened between those persons and the person making a complaint. I think the member could actually rephrase the question and bring it within the order of the House but at the moment it is hard to see what the ministerial responsibility can be for the fact that approaches were made to certain individuals in their capacity as members not in their ministerial capacity. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes. The member is correct. Would Mr Heatley like to rephrase the question so it brings it squarely within ministerial responsibility. 
Phil Heatley 
: Why did Housing New Zealand not take action way back in June when Ruth Dyson’s office was contacted way back in July when Jim Anderton’s office was contacted and way back in September when Ruth Dyson was contacted personally because presumably those MPs contacted Housing New Zealand Corporation? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The member has not actually managed to rephrase the question. I wonder if I could try to help him just a little bit. He needs to ask whether approaches were made to the Housing New Zealand Corporation on either of those days and if so why action was not taken. 
Lindsay Tisch 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Mr Heatley clearly at the beginning of his question not the end brought it back to the ministerial responsibility of Housing New Zealand Corporation. That is what he said and the Minister should answer the question on that basis. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well if it is only on that basis then the Minister should ignore the second part of that question. I think that is what Dr Cullen was getting at; if it had stopped there the question is directly within ministerial responsibility. So if the Minister would like to address the question. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I will ignore the second half of the question but I can speak on behalf of the corporation which is what of course I have responsibility for. On 3 October it was alleged—[ 
Interruption 
] Can I have a chance to answer? On 3 October it was alleged to Housing New Zealand Corporation that the tenant was not living in her State house and that the property was being sublet. I also received a letter on 21 October making the same allegations. Because proof rather than allegation is required by the tenancy tribunal the matter was investigated by the local housing manager. This particular investigation was made more difficult by neighbouring tenants providing conflicting information. Nevertheless the investigation is now concluded and the tenancy has ended. 
Tim Barnett 
: What reports has the Minister of Housing had from the member for Whangarei National’s housings spokesperson about alleged subletting of Housing New Zealand Corporation properties? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Interestingly—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please be seated. I know the member is going to ask whether this is within ministerial responsibility. The ministerial responsibility as I heard the question was for a query that was made to the Minister in his capacity as Minister. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Interestingly enough despite Mr Heatley’s claims that he “gets more callers anonymously dobbing in State house subletting scams than any other issue” he has not once provided any details of these allegations to either the corporation or my office. I ask Mr Heatley where the cases are. Perhaps it is time for that member to put up or shut up. 
Phil Heatley 
: Has Housing New Zealand Corporation briefed the Minister on the neighbours’ contact with Ruth Dyson’s office when they told the office that Rana Martin owns her own home and sublets her State house which resulted in Housing New Zealand Corporation staff yelling at Ruth Dyson’s secretary then doing nothing? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: No it has not. 
Phil Heatley 
: Can the Minister confirm that neighbours have been harassed by relations of Rana Martin this morning who are also State house tenants and can he confirm that the police have had to be called to deal with the problem and trespass orders have been issued? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: No I cannot and as far as I am aware none of my relatives have been there either. 
Phil Heatley 
: When I asked the Minister last month about the subletting of State houses and he said he was “unable to provide the exact number length of absence of tenants and whether they were investigations” was he adamant or will he now make sure that Housing New Zealand Corporation keeps records to see how widespread the rorting problem is? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: One of the problems in this whole case is that the member seems to confuse boarders and subletting. If he clarifies his written questions to me on that issue I will be happy to provide the information. 
Phil Heatley 
: When I asked the Minister last month about investigating the subletting of State houses and he said he was “not prepared to authorise such an undertaking” was he adamant or will he now give an assurance that he will launch a transparent investigation to see how widespread subletting rorts are and fix them so we can house the 11500 needy families on the waiting list not these scammers? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I am not sure where the member has got the quote from but I can assure this House that all allegations of scamming or dishonest behaviour by Housing New Zealand Corporation tenants are investigated. Frankly that member must be really embarrassed in the House to raise the question of the 11500 people on the waiting list because after all his Government sold 13000 State houses. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table 30 parliamentary questions to the Minister about subletting where he says he is not prepared to get the information or have any investigation. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.