Collins Judith: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Collins Judith: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:627;Page:22042] 
8.  
JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) 
 to the  
Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF) 
: Is she satisfied that her and the Child Youth and Family Services’ response to concerns raised about the suitability of caregivers is consistent with her statement of 23 June 2005 that “we are now moving into a phase of what I would describe as performance excellence”? 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF)) 
: 
 Yes I am satisfied that when concerns about the suitability of caregivers are raised prior to children being placed or during their placement with a caregiver that response is consistent with my statement. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: What does she think of her own “performance excellence” given it took her over 5 days to reply after I phoned and faxed her office for an urgent response because there was video evidence of child sexual abuse carried out by a Child Youth and Family Services - appointed caregiver even though the local vicar the parents and I had written to Child Youth and Family Services months earlier warning of the caregiver’s unsuitability? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: When the member who raised that question first contacted my office he was advised given his concerns were being expressed 3 months after the children had been removed from the placement with that caregiver that that matter would be subject to an investigation and I had confirmed that already with my secretary. When he became abusive on the second phone call to my secretary I rang him personally. He was in caucus at the time. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I take personal offence at the Minister suggesting that I was abusive on the phone. I think I am generally known as a relatively mild and rational person. I can assure this House that when I phoned her secretary for the second time I maintained absolute calm and decency because I was so concerned about this case. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: It is not unparliamentary per se to use the word “abusive” but I would ask the Minister to reconsider whether it was appropriate in the context of her answer in this case. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: When I rang Dr Hutchison back on the Tuesday I was advised that he was in caucus. I confirmed with his secretary that I understood his concerns the children had been removed 3 months prior to his call the previous week and that I would contact him again to have a discussion with him which I subsequently did. Dr Hutchison was well aware of the fact that the children had been removed 3 months prior. 
In regard to the second point that Dr Hutchison raised in his letter to Child Youth and Family Services in November of the previous year concerns were not raised about the safety of the children. Concerns were raised about the accommodation situation of the children’s parents and whether the children would eventually be able to return to live with them. Those were not issues dealing with the safety of the children but nevertheless the safety of the children was investigated and confirmed. 
Dave Hereora 
: Can the Minister outline Child Youth and Family Services’ performance achievements? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I do not have time to outline them all but I can highlight the fact that Child Youth and Family Services has reduced the number of unallocated cases by 78 percent since May of last year despite an 80 percent increase in notifications. Children are being seen more quickly and determinations of abuse or neglect obviously made more quickly as well. The number of social workers has gone up by 26 percent under this Government. Many of those social workers are being registered and nearly all of them would be threatened by an incoming National Government. 
Paul Adams 
: Can the Minister confirm whether her department has done anything to action the promise of her colleague the Hon Steve Maharey that it would move to ensure that grandparents raising their grandchildren are not short-changed by getting $30 less a week than Child Youth and Family Services foster caregivers get; if not is this just another example of where this Government is happy to ignore the needs of the natural family? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Tragically that is not a quote that I am familiar with despite having frequent engagements with grandparents raising grandchildren and Minister Maharey. I doubt that that quote is accurate but I can confirm that significant progress has been made by both the Ministry of Social Development and Child Youth and Family Services towards better supporting grandparents who are in that situation. I am delighted with the progress for grandparents who certainly deserve that increased support. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why is the taxpayer paying through Child Youth and Family Services for one family to care for four Chinese babies—babies of Chinese students formerly in this country who have disappeared back to China leaving this debt with the New Zealand State for the rest of their juvenile lives? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I presume that if that is the situation then the answer to the question asking why the Department of Child Youth and Family Services is caring for them would be that if the babies were left on their own they would die. 
Judith Collins 
: What does it take for the Department of Child Youth and Family Services and this Minister to take seriously warnings of sexual depravity in the caregiver if the warnings of parents a local vicar and a member of Parliament are ignored or dismissed as we have just seen today and how can she justify the fact that it took police action—it was the police who took the children out—before the Department of Child Youth and Family Services woke up to the fact that it had put three vulnerable children into a home where they were likely to be sexually exploited? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: As I indicated in the answer to the primary question no such allegations have been made by Dr Hutchison in writing by the children’s family who confirmed their support of the placement of their children with that caregiver or by any other member of the family. At the end of this question I will seek leave to table the letter from Dr Hutchison with the family’s names removed so that every member of our society can see that Dr Hutchison and Mrs Collins have grossly misrepresented his advocacy which was non-existent. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What responsibility does the Minister regard herself or her colleagues as having to the New Zealand taxpayer when she thinks it is a laughing matter for four Chinese students to leave their babies here and shoot off back to China leaving the charges to the New Zealand taxpayer for the next 21 years; why is that a laughing matter? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I was certainly not laughing and I did not notice any member of this House laughing. I do not agree with the member’s assertion that it was a laughing matter. I was not amused by it. The point I made was that the Department of Child Youth and Family Services has a State responsibility to be the parent for children when their birth parents are absent and in this case tragically they were. 
Judith Collins 
: Who first decided that something had to be done to remove the three children from the sexual pervert; was it the police or was it the Department of Child Youth and Family Services doing its job? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: On 17 March which was the first and only time that staff from the Department of Child Youth and Family Services had notification of sexual abuse of the one child who was living with the caregiver they removed that child immediately. The first and only time such a notification had been made was on 17 March this year. 
Judith Collins 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I do not think the Minister has addressed the question which asked who brought this abuse to attention; was it the Department of Child Youth and Family Services or was it the police? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The first and only time that the Department of Child Youth and Family Services was alerted to an allegation of sexual abuse was on 17 March of this year by the police. Dr Hutchison has never made that allegation. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: In respect of the Minister’s department’s responsibility to bring these practices to the attention of the Minister of Finance the Prime Minister and herself how many rip-offs of the New Zealand taxpayer have to happen before she and her colleagues realise just how serious this issue is where all manner of costs are being imported into this country and imposed on New Zealand taxpayers whilst 1329 New Zealanders died on hospital waiting lists because we never had enough money to pay for their operations; when will she stop thinking it is a laughing matter and do something about it? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Can I first repeat that at no stage of the question this afternoon have I found the assertions made by the member a laughing matter but now that the member has brought to my attention the fact that some people are coming to New Zealand from overseas having babies and leaving them here to be cared for at the State’s cost I will certainly have that matter investigated. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: I seek leave to table two letters. The first is dated 29 November 2004 which shows that my constituents are deeply concerned about various issues regarding their four children. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that letter which has been sufficiently identified by the member. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: The second letter dated 24 June and marked “urgent” to the Hon Ruth Dyson states: “I believe this situation requires an immediate full and urgent inquiry.” 
Document not tabled. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My point of order relates to the substance of the Minister’s answer to my question. We have four babies being placed with foster parents through the Department of Child Youth and Family Services and the Minister says she does not know about it. I do not believe that that could have happened without it being brought to the attention of the department and the Minister. Perhaps the Minister at least could clarify that in respect of her answer. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member but that is not a point of order. 
Paul Adams 
: I seek leave to table the question of Judy Turner to the Hon Steve Maharey on 10 May which confirms the statement I referred to in my supplementary question as to what Steve Maharey said. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I seek leave to table Dr Hutchison’s letter to the Department of Child Youth and Family Services of 29 November 2004 with all the family names deleted. 
Document not tabled.