Andersen GinnyHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Minister of Justice): Thank you very much Madam Chair. So as a result of the Auckland shooting recently there are a number of inquiries currently under way. One will be the coroner one will be through the police investigation. I understand the Independent Police Conduct Authority of New Zealand will also be conducting their investigation and also the Department of Corrections will also be looking at that. So I'm interested to see all of the outcomes of those investigations to determine if there have been any red flags which have been missed.Saying that Mr Goldsmith it's important to note that whether home detention is awarded or not is for judges—the judicial decision that is made for judges. So I assume that he is proposing that he would in some way limit or curtail what judges currently do in order to have an impact from this House into the courts in terms of what is able to be awarded. I don't currently have a programme of work under way to do that. However I think it will be very important to take a look at all of those inquiries currently under way to see what the findings are before we quickly jump to any conclusions.I want to address also the use of audiovisual links (AVL) or virtual meeting room remote use that was raised by Mr Penk. So yes it is available. It's also important to note—I think the number I have is that there has been an increase of 97 percent of use of AVL so it is encouraged and used at a far higher rate than it has been used before. It is still at the discretion of a judge when that AVL is used or not. Obviously there will be some instances which would probably be inappropriate such as sentencing or a first appearance potentially where the use of AVL would not be appropriate. But there is a movement towards utilising it more and by that statistic there has been a big increase in the use of AVL.In terms of the question he raised in terms of legal aid a second lawyer can be funded under legal aid. But this is more generally for those big or more complex cases—and he's already noted that there has been a significant increase under this Government for funding of legal aid. So that has been in place.There was one other point made—I think there was a point raised by Mr Waititi in relation to Operation Cobalt and I think Operation Tauwhiro. Both of those fall under operational activities of police. We're in Estimates now for justice so I can't really go into discussing what's under that appropriation when we are discussing justice. I would point out in relation to improving outcomes for Māori in terms of the justice system that Te Pae Oranga—Māori justice panels—have been rolled out right across the country. They continue to prove that reoffending rates and getting people on the right pathways within their communities—all of those reviews are proving that they are providing far more positive outcomes for Māori and I look closely to see how we can continue to support that work.In terms of—Mr Goldsmith had one other question. Oh that's who I had—Nicole McKee raised whether it was value for $14 million for the justice senior leadership board; whether that's a good use. I would say that the justice cluster in general are put in all of those votes in one being able to get better value for money. All the chief executives I speak to think it's working well that it is good value for money and to have that level of coordination going right across Courts Police Justice Corrections does require a level of administration. But I would say overall having that coordination—having that oversight—actually holds the key to getting better outcomes for victims of crime and that has been the missing case in our justice system.Without that coordination it's each of those agencies taking their own lens without having the ability of looking at how that in fact impacts upon the victim. So that coordination I think holds real opportunities for New Zealand to increase the rights of victims and the visibility of victims within our justice system.