O'Connor GregGREG O'CONNOR (Labour—Ōhāriu): I was privileged to be a member of the Social Services Committee that considered this bill. It's often said that good things come in small packages. Having listened to some of the speakers today who haven't had the privilege of sitting through the passage of this bill through a select committee I think they may not get an understanding of just how significant it was.As I was preparing today I looked at the notes I made when this bill made its first reading. I was—I have to confess—one of those people Mr Lees-Galloway referred to who when I first picked it up thought that SuPERU was a four-wheel drive car. As I've been sitting reading the notes and reflecting on the select committee now I just realise what a journey I've been on with this bill. Through the select committee I really did come to understand the whole Families Commission and what the whole purpose of that commission was—probably accentuated yesterday when we had Mr Len Cook presented to the select committee again on another matter. For those that haven't had the privilege of listening to Mr Cook and hearing him the enthusiasm and the sheer intellectual grunt of the man and his knowledge of the sector is second to none.Mr Mitchell spoke of light-bulb moments and I think when you come into this House there are several of those. But certainly that was the light-bulb moment where everything came together for me: understanding—for those that are watching—just what it is that we are actually repealing here today. What was established—and I go back to what their research signalled and the idea of it was that yes Government departments do operate in silos. Getting the data that firstly they generate and use and making sure the quality of that data not only is useful to that department; it's useful for the whole of Government and more importantly that it fits into the strategy which I think we all agree we want to achieve which is the elimination of poverty.So when we look at the quality of that data there was an interesting comment made again around that from one of the submitters we spoke to who works closely with Government departments: we can't always rely on the quality of the data that comes out for the simple reason that if we are not careful—and my colleague who is on the select committee the Hon Alfred Ngaro made a wonderful presentation until his last 30 seconds when he talked about the need to break everything down into its component bits to make sure that we have those set tight targets for Government departments. Well that's where we differ because I think the problem—and the new member Nicola Willis has worked in Wellington. She'll know public servants and she'll know exactly what happens with public servants: you get what you want.So if the Minister if the Government demands a certain result a certain specified target from a department that's exactly what they'll get. The data won't be manipulated; the data will be gathered with a view to giving the Minister giving the Government exactly what they want. That is the problem with Better Public Services (BPS). The BPS that is fed into this is so often seen as the paragon of virtue; it's so often seen as the saviour of all. Well unfortunately BPS—instead of Better Public Services it meant cheaper public services because what was left out was actually most important.I saw it time and time again with Government departments I was involved with. Again Ms Willis will have seen the same thing. She'll have certainly heard it from public servants she's spoken to at various social events who are worried that the hard work the very hard work that our public servants do—and again I was absolutely disgusted when I heard the previous Prime Minister talking about how public servants would sit with their feet back on their desk because all of a sudden these very tight targets were taken off them. Well actually that was an absolute insult to some very very hard-working people. I hope Ms Willis like myself that you were outraged because many of the people you know in this town will be those very hard-working public servants who will not go back and put their feet back up; who are absolutely dedicated and who actually will be freed now to know that it's what we're trying to achieve that's most important. What gets measured gets done and that's the problem. If we break it down to its component bits that's what will get done.So I'll come back to this bill and what this actually gives us the opportunity to do. It gives us now the opportunity to make sure that those Government departments that are going to pick up the slack the Government departments that are going to be doing the work—and we all agree that it needs to go back families; that actually moving it out into another department is not necessarily a good idea. What it actually does is it becomes a bit of a cop-out for those Government departments saying that actually It doesn't matter if we're so busy doing what's demanded of us what we're going to be grilled about by every Minister what we're going to be grilled about every time we come to Parliament. We'll only be punished for what's not done and won't be really rewarded for what's done and we won't be sitting around with our feet up because now what it will mean is we actually all know what it is that we want to achieve."Now I'm not saying that that was wasn't laid out clearly and I'm not saying that those who led the last Government didn't want it but it's how we achieve it. You do not achieve it—there's an old saying that you don't fatten a pig by weighing it and that's what we've attempted to do right through the public sector. So all I'd say is that I'm really pleased to be part of a Government that is now going to—and this again I said that I had the light-bulb moment as I sat through that select committee. I started to understand. Now I've again seen so many of these public servants come through here and they come through really under some sort of trepidation that they're going to be beaten up for the things that they haven't done. Well I've got to finish—this actually represents a whole change that I'm really really proud of. It's going to be actually rewarding them for the things they have done. Have some faith in these people. Again Ms Willis I go back—you socialise with these people. You know how hard they work. You know what they want to achieve. Give them the opportunity to do it. Don't have them go to work saying "Well I'd like to end child poverty today to be working towards that but I haven't got time because what I'm going to be working on is making sure this target is met. It doesn't matter that this target is something that was dreamt up that's actually not going to make an iota of difference or certainly not a significant difference; I'm going to be so busy doing that that I can't do that other stuff. It's all right. The social policy evaluation and research unit (SuPERU) are doing that."Well now SuPERU are not going to be doing it. So what this Government is demanding by actually setting it out there the end—know what it is. I'm a great believer in that strategy means knowing what success looks like and working backwards. I think there's an unfortunate belief and I saw it in the last Government that if you do all the bits then everything will come right but it doesn't. You know leadership isn't about that. Leadership isn't about pushing down so deep that we actually count the pins—that we end up counting the paperclips. That's basically what ended up happening.Now I know this is ending up becoming a bit—but listen sit there relaxed please. Can I just say don't think that because you're not demanding of public servants that they work 22 hours a day two hours of which might be meaningful the other 20 hours of which is actually ticking boxes—don't think it's going to all fall apart and that some of the very good work you did will fall apart. It won't because the transition of this now is to actually look at what success looks like and what success is going to look like when we achieve it. Have a look at the bill. Have a look at the bill now the Child Poverty Reduction Bill which really I'd say in some ways could be seen to be almost a replacement for this because instead of having one department measuring all here we're actually going to be measuring it each year. So when we actually do report back to the House and in various select committees we're going to be on when Treasury is going to be reporting back on these things that's actually going to be the replacement because it's more important to actually measure what success is.So look relax guys. Relax over on the Opposition benches. I know and I can understand. If I was sitting there I'd probably be feeling a little bit the same: a little bit worried that look we've got these public servants scared we've got them so that when they come to select committee if they get it wrong—but actually don't worry. Have faith in them. Have faith in the people that Nicola Willis will probably see tonight socially. Have faith that those who live in Wellington and see them socially that go and stand on the sideline with our kids sport and see them and see how hard they work—have faith that now we give them a job to do that they know what success looks like and that's what's going to be shared. Please whatever happens don't ever go down; don't let me see those scared fearful overworked public servants. They're actually doing a very good job but they're doing the job that we've asked them to do not necessarily the right job. So as I see it now the Families Commission I think it's done its job. Again when I look at the work that it's done—again the number of submissions we had. Clearly there was enough faith—although there weren't many submitters they all clearly had enough faith but the fear probably came through. If you look through those submissions one of the things that came through was "They've done a good job we're just a bit scared." and that again we're a little bit scared that no one's going to pick up the job. I'm confident. Everyone knows what success looks like. The work will get done. Thank you Mr Chair.Bill read a second time."