Macindoe TimHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): Kia orana Madam Chair and thank you very much. I always listen to the Hon Kris Faafoi with great respect. I appreciate his thoughtful contributions and I listened to the last one. He's the finest Minister in the current Government and probably one of the busiest and he's just demonstrated that he's also an active local constituency MP. Like him as an electorate MP I listen carefully to what people say to me in my electorate as well. While I don't for a moment question that that was the feedback he's got I wonder whether his colleague in front of him the former secretary of the police union would suggest to him that police officers in this country would articulate a very different view because it's certainly my understanding that many in the police would suggest that increasing the penalties—particularly for these psychoactive substances—will make a very significant difference and that is why I'm very supportive of this particular bill.When I spoke in the second reading of this debate I began by asking a question which provoked an outraged reaction from the member Chlöe Swarbrick and I'm pleased to see Miss Swarbrick in the Chamber tonight. I'm not going to repeat the question that I put because I don't want to provoke a similar reaction but I do just want to clarify that the point that I was trying to make—and I think it has been confirmed for me listening to a number of the contributions in this committee stage—is that to some extent we've been talking across each other in this particular debate. I have no doubt at all that for many people who are addicted to these drugs or who are exposed to them for perhaps the first or second time this is predominantly a health issue and I don't have any problem with treating it as such. The point I was trying to make was that this is a bill about increasing penalties for those who manufacture and in particular supply the drugs and that is why I am so strongly in support of it.In my own community and I think probably in communities the length and breadth of this land the horror is at those who peddle these pernicious drugs in such a way that they do enormous harm to vulnerable New Zealanders. That is why I do believe that there is considerable evidence—and the police would back this up—that stiffer penalties will send the right deterrent message and that is what the bill is aiming to do.It is not about toughening up on those who are using the drugs; it is about getting tough on those who supply the drugs. That as I say is where I think there has been a lot of debate at cross-purposes and talking over the top of each other and I do want to clarify that the reason I and my colleagues on this side of the House are so strongly in support of the bill that Simeon Brown has put forward is because we absolutely endorse his view that we need to send a very clear message in the community. My colleague Matt King the member for Northland who's also a former police officer has confirmed to me that it is definitely the view of his former colleagues that this bill will be effective that it will send the right message and that it will help to reduce the problem that psychoactive substances are causing in our community not least because it will actually address the illogical imbalance at the moment in the way some other drugs are treated in our criminal justice system when these drugs are actually being treated in a way that is very lenient.So as we debate clause 4 of this bill which is all about that key provision of increasing the penalty I am strongly in support of that. I want to acknowledge the support of New Zealand First who I think have listened to New Zealanders as well and who are pushing in the same direction.I strongly commend Simeon Brown for the great work that he has done. I send my aroha and sympathy to all who are suffering from the effects of these drugs in our community and I very much hope that the House will see fit to pass this bill to send the right message to those who are involved in this horrible trade to try to reduce the problem—we'll probably never be able to stamp it out altogether—that is endemic in so many communities. So I commend Simeon Brown and I urge the committee to support this bill.