Curran Clare: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Curran Clare: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 16 February 2012. Volume:677;Page:494. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
11. 
CLARE CURRAN (Labour—Dunedin South) 
 to the  
Minister of Broadcasting 
: What is the name of the documentary which was withheld in the papers released publicly by NZ On Air titled “Records of decisions made at working group meeting”? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS (Minister of Broadcasting) 
: 
 I understand the documentary in question is still under development with the broadcaster and decisions are still to be confirmed about whether it will proceed or receive funding from New Zealand On Air. I have not been made aware of the details of this documentary and it would not be in the public interest for me to provide details because of the commercial sensitivity around decisions still to be confirmed by the board of New Zealand On Air. 
Clare Curran 
: Who made the decision to withhold the name of the documentary? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: As pursuant to this question I will just repeat my first answer. If the member is referring to the Official Information Act request tabled the other day that Official Information Act request was to New Zealand On Air I believe. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a really simple question: who made the decision to withhold? It had nothing to do with the OIO. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The OIA. The member still makes a valid point. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! This is an important issue. The Minister has indicated that there are issues of public interest around this. However the member asked who made the decision to withhold the name of the particular programme that was deleted from a document. The Minister may not have that information but it would be helpful if he made some reference to it in his answer.  
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would just like you to reflect on the line of questioning that has been going on on this for some days now. Increasingly those questions are starting to require the Minister to have ready knowledge of operational issues. That is simply inappropriate. I think to uphold questions that need answers that would require the Minister to have such operational detail is quite outside the understandings of how the separation between governance and the entities themselves works. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I appreciate the concern of the member but Ministers in relation to entities like New Zealand On Air do have a responsibility to answer questions. Although they are not accountable necessarily for operational matters they have a responsibility that enables them to be questioned on those matters. I accept that in this case the Minister may not actually have that information. If he does not have that information there is no reason why he would necessarily be expected to have that information because it is an operational matter presumably. He may not have that information and that would be a perfectly reasonable answer if he did not have that information. If he did have the information he may consider it to be delving into a matter that is still commercially sensitive. When you have a range of commercial programmes under consideration by New Zealand On Air there may be commercial sensitivities around releasing any information about those. As to whether that is a matter of public interest the Minister is the best person to judge that. There are a range of answers that are available to the Minister but I think the question was in order. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would ask you to perhaps review that offering to the House at a later point and if necessary come back to us because I do not think it would be appropriate for members of this House to be able to ask details of police operations or for that matter some military operations or perhaps about the Security Intelligence Service or any range of other things. It also would mean that many Ministers would need to know quite considerable and extensive details about the operation of State-owned enterprises for example. So there are sort of bounds under which ministerial responsibility is exercised but it does not go right down to the daily operation— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I apologise to the member but I disagree with what he is asserting here. I refer him to Speakers’ ruling 157/4: “There is no convention that Ministers are not answerable for operational matters;”. The Minister may not have information on operational matters or he or she may consider it not in the public interest to give detailed information on operational matters. But that does not preclude members from asking questions about operational matters and as I outlined before—I am trying to be helpful to the House—there are a range of answers available to the Minister. He must of course be truthful to the House but if it is not in the public interest to reveal certain information operational information that is the Minister’s judgment and the House cannot second-guess that. But to preclude members or prevent members from asking questions is not within the Standing Orders at all. So much time has expired so I invite Clare Curran to repeat her question. 
Clare Curran 
: Who made the decision to withhold the name of the documentary? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: If it is referring to the point in the primary question that was a document released under the Official Information Act by New Zealand On Air so I presume the answer would be pursuant to whoever signed out that Official Information Act request to the member or whoever requested it in the first place. I do not know who that person was. 
Hon Annette King 
: He doesn’t know much at all. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Clare Curran 
: Given the four documentaries released under that Official Information Act request from New Zealand On Air are listed together who makes the decision to fund documentaries from New Zealand On Air? Is it the board that makes the decision to fund documentaries; if so why is it that the name of the withheld documentary cannot be released? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: In respect of my primary answer the general construct is that the Crown funds New Zealand On Air the board of New Zealand On Air; New Zealand On Air has longstanding working groups and processes that decide themes and contestability etc. for national programmes. They call them working groups. It is within that process that the members and those they engage with from the sector decide the content or the general direction of whatever programmes they end up funding. 
Clare Curran 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have been trying to get the Minister to answer direct questions for a number of days. He gives— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! It is not an appropriate way to start a point of order with: “I have been trying to get the Minister to answer direct questions …”. Forgive me but I did not observe the last question to be a particularly direct question. But the Minister did answer the question. The Minister pointed out that these working groups are involved in making decisions and he is not involved in them and he did not go as far as perhaps to identify the final decision-making person but I think it was an answer to the question. The quality of it can be judged but then the quality of the question can also be judged by members of the House. The member has further supplementary questions available. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Would it be ethical for Mr McElrea the chair of the Prime Minister’s electorate committee who works closely with MediaWorks on these four documentaries to tell the Prime Minister the topic of the documentary? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: I have full confidence in the board—the members of the board. They all operate under the Crown Entities Act 2004. I note that I also operate under the Broadcasting Act 1989 which prohibits me or any Minister to give any direction in respect of any programme or content. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think it was a pretty direct question: would it be ethical for the board member working with MediaWorks to tell the Prime Minister whose electorate committee he is the chair of the name of the documentary? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member is really making an allegation—it is either a hypothetical question or an allegation I am not sure which. But there are no precise answers to hypothetical questions and let us assume it is a hypothetical question—let us put the best interpretation on it. The Minister has indicated that he has absolute confidence in the board and its members. I presume that confidence includes that it will behave ethically. As it was a hypothetical question I do not think we can press the Minister too much further on that.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The point I am trying to work out Mr Speaker is whether it is ethical or not and we cannot tell from that answer whether it is the Minister’s view that passing it on— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member though is I presume posing a hypothetical question: were a member of the board to do that. The Minister is indicating that he has confidence in the board and I presume that includes that it will behave ethically. Clearly the Minister is not prepared to get involved in the detail of what might be in his view ethical behaviour compared with the requirements of the board under the Act. I do not think I can press the Minister further on that. 
Clare Curran 
: How many conversations or representations has he had with the chair of the board on this matter have they discussed the content of the documentaries and was the name of the documentary that has been withheld mentioned during those conversations? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: I think there were three questions in there. I have regular meetings. I met with the chair initially as an initial meet and greet. I think we have had an update since then. Pursuant to the point of the primary question I have not had discussions with the chair of New Zealand On Air but let me just take this moment to thank the chair of the New Zealand On Air board— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The question was three separate questions. The Minister can answer any one of them. The first one if I recollect correctly asked how many conversations he had had with the chair of the board of New Zealand On Air the second asked whether he had discussed the nature of these documentaries with the chair of New Zealand On Air and the third asked whether the name of this particular documentary was mentioned in those discussions. The Minister can answer any one of those but he should be able to answer that question because the Minister would know whether he has talked about those matters and the Minister has responsibility for what he talks about with the chair of the board.  
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: I have normal conversations with the chair of the board as normal on a range of matters about New Zealand On Air. We might have had a general discussion about this particular issue but there would have been one or two conversations—nothing particular to this particular issue whatsoever.