Ngaro AlfredHon ALFRED NGARO (National): Thank you Madam Chair Tolley. I rise to take a call on Part 2 of this Families Package (Income Tax and Benefits) Bill. On the other side as you've heard we are challenging this bill. At the same time too there are parts of it where we'd like to make the bill better. We know the training wheels are still on at the moment. They're still sort of wobbling a little bit—they're struggling a little bit—and so we feel that with some of the expertise that we have we'd like to offer some suggestions around that. I know that members over there will appreciate this. My contribution is on the amendment that I've put forward in regard to the winter energy payment section 61FE in new Part 1KA. In particular to do with: The purpose of the winter energy payment is to provide … financial assistance" and support—in particular section 61FI(1) to add an extra subsection (c) and this is how it reads: "if the person has nominated in a form and manner approved by the chief executive to use their winter energy payment for additional home insulation or heating sources in 1 annual instalment." Also in section 61FI "Winter energy payment: instalments rates and payment" to insert new section 61FI(2)(c): "for recipients who have nominated to use their winter energy payment for additional home insulation or heating sources".We believe that's important. The Government on the other side only two weeks ago had the Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill (No 2) where they advocated very strongly for the importance of insulation—in fact on many occasions they talked about the importance of that in regard to the current building code and standard from 1978. They want it included to 2008 so there was very strong advocacy and support that insulation becomes critically important. What I would add is that what this is—it is actually to create some flexibility. When we talk about the winter energy payments it doesn't specifically say what those payments could be used for; it could be all sorts of manners of things.We think it's important—and I'm sure the Government would think it's important—to put some checks and balances in there create a bit of flexibility and focus on insulation. This committee has heard about the importance of insulation and what that gathers. We know that there are approximately one million houses that are still uninsulated. Under the previous Government the National Government we had insulated at least 30000 Housing New Zealand houses and another 350000 houses in the general populace as well so this would add to that as well.So I think it's really important and I'd like to hear from the Minister about the fact that this amendment would be something that would add to it. It would create flexibility. If we're going to talk about the efficiency and saving for the family in their situation during that winter period of time then you can spend a whole lot of resource and money on paying the power bills but if you're not creating a home that is warm that is dry then it's money that's just wasted. I would say that's critically important.The second part of my amendment also includes heating sources. We know that's critically important because when we think about the heating sources the most common heating source at the moment that is not only efficient in its use but also cost-effective is the heat pump. Many homes now are actually ensuring that they install heat pumps there. The heating source means that now we are also putting it down specifically to an appliance that again would ensure that the home is dry is warm and actually meets those needs for the family as well.My contribution for the amendment that I'm proposing to new section 61FI in the winter energy payments is to ensure that there is an opportunity a flexibility to look at home insulation—as I said there are over a million homes that aren't insulated at the moment both ceiling and floor—and also the importance of heating sources. I know that as an electrician—when I first started my apprenticeship I was working for Ward Chandler Electrical and Jim Cato Electrical who had contacts with Housing New Zealand. Part of my role was to go into many of those Housing Corporation homes but also into other homes too—homes owned by residents who were low-income families. And in many cases I had to remove appliances that were not only inefficient but were costing those residents at that time huge amounts in their power bill.So I think that what I am proposing is not something that's unreasonable. I'd like the Government just to consider this. This is a practical solution. It's a practical amendment that again is for the insulation and what it would do what we've heard from experts is that it would increase the efficiency of the warmth of a home by 35 percent—35 percent.So rather than actually just saying that it's for winter payments such as your power bills why not allow the flexibility for those that need their homes to be insulated to have a heating source that would be reliable and efficient and effective to heat the home? I think actually it's a very practical solution that I can offer to the House and to the Government as well."