Tisch Lindsay: Criminal Records (Clean Slate) Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
Tisch Lindsay: Criminal Records (Clean Slate) Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:617;Page:12583] 
LINDSAY TISCH (National—Piako) 
: 
 It is interesting in this debate to be on this side of the Committee where we have some very eminent lawyers. All parties on this side— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Name names! 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: I do not need to name names because they stand on their own merits. They are people who have been at the coalface and understand what the law is about. Here on this side we have such people within our team in Dr Wayne Mapp Richard Worth and Judith Collins three very experienced lawyers who have had to deal with these issues over a number of years. 
As a lay person I want to focus on these issues from the point of view of an employer. If we look at clause 14A in particular we can see that an employer will face a very onerous dilemma. Most employers when employing people really want to know about their background. That is fair. If I am prepared to give someone a job that person needs to be open and frank about his or her past positions skills and experience and the sorts of attributes that will be important in my business. But the dilemma happens in that we see in this bill that it will be unlawful to ask people about their past. Clause 14A is headed: “Offence to require or request that individual disregard scheme”. Although we may have some doubts about somebody we cannot put pressure on that person to give us the sort of background information we require. 
I find that totally unacceptable and certainly National has argued this point right through. Creating an environment where people can lie about their past does not lead to good relationships. Honesty is the best policy and if someone is prepared to front up and say: “Look in my youth 20 years ago I did something I feel shameful about. I should never have done it I regret it and I feel remorseful about it.” a prospective employer is likely to say to that person: “I’m prepared to give you a go because you are being upfront.” That is the sort of open approach the sort of openness and honesty that I would expect as a prospective employer. I have employed people who have a past that is not that great but I have been prepared to give them a go because I have had the opportunity to appraise them; they can prove themselves or otherwise and that is something I am prepared to allow them to do. 
But when we look at clause 14A we can see that it states that we cannot put pressure on people we cannot deviate from what the bill intends because if we do that then we will be fined. In fact the fine is $10000. The Minister quoted a letter he had received from somebody about a past misdemeanour that had happened 20-odd years ago and the fine for which was $100. This bill will not say to that person: “Ah we’re going to expunge that offence; it never happened; you’ve got a clean slate and you can walk away.” The bill does not do that. It does not expunge past convictions. All that it does is say to the person: “You can lie about it. You have a licence to lie to say that you have never had a conviction. You can hide it.” 
That is the sort of nonsense we do not agree with. We do not agree with this bill because it encourages an environment in which people can hide their past. As I said right at the beginning I look for honesty. I look for a straight-up approach. If someone has done something wrong then let him or her lay it on the table so that we can deal with it as it comes up. We see in this bill that a prospective employer who breaches this law could be penalised $10000 and that is a nonsense.