Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8486] 
8.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he agree with Peter Gall president-elect of the Secondary Principals Association that some schools are loading study programmes with easy subjects to help pupils pass the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA)? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Of course I listened closely to Mr Gall’s comments but there is no evidence that schools are designing assessment programmes with anything other than the students’ best interests at heart. Secondary school students can earn credits in three ways. They can get achievement standards assessed internally or externally and they can get unit standards assessed internally. There has been a slight increase in the percentage of students doing internally assessed unit standards so that issue is being looked at by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority as part of its review of design features. I should also note and I take notice of this from Peter Gall as well that he has said: “We are a pro-NCEA school and our staff like many teachers around the country have worked incredibly hard to make sure it does work.” 
Katherine Rich 
: Why should New Zealanders trust the Minister’s opinion over that of a secondary school principal of many years’ experience who says that some schools are loading study programmes with easy subjects to help kids through NCEA? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I am not asking anybody to trust anybody in this matter; I am just saying that I listen closely to Mr Gall and will carry on doing so because he is the incoming president of the Secondary Principals Association. I am simply pointing to the fact that there is no evidence at the moment that there is a shift of any extent to unit standards. So until we see that I guess we will have to say it may be a one-off isolated case. Of course we would take a very dim view of it if it is a one-off isolated case. If Mr Gall or the member bring it to our attention we will of course investigate it immediately. 
Hon Marian Hobbs 
: What reports has the Minister heard about the potential of the NCEA system? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I have heard numerous reports about NCEA because most people agree that a standards-based assessment system is fit for the 21st century. I draw attention in particular to the remarks of Phil O’Reilly Chief Executive of Business New Zealand who said: “It gives employers news they can use it tells you what a student is good at and it delivers more about their capability.” I think that is the general view of people right round the country—that NCEA is the right direction for our assessment system. They want to focus on the process of constant improvement that is going on not on trying to undermine our national qualification system. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: What changes to NCEA have been initiated to overcome the de-motivating effects on students which were unearthed by his ministry through research undertaken last year? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The member is referring to the research led by Professor Luanna Meyer from Victoria University which was the major study done on motivation in NCEA. A number of things were suggested. In particular a key finding was firstly that students predominantly choose subjects that interest them and secondly that the subjects relate to their future job and career goals. So what we know from that research is that we need to work with students to ensure they make that link between where they want to go to further study and in their future job. That is being done through the Career Services. Senior subject advisers have been appointed to assist teachers to develop effective teaching and assessment techniques related to NCEA. We are looking at the proposal to endorse certificates so that there is a clearer idea of what the student has gained relative to other students. That is part of the design review going on at the present time. 
Katherine Rich 
: Why are schools being urged by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to increase the use of internally assessed unit standards and easier subjects as a safety net and does the Minister think that increasing the proportion of unit standards being sat each year since NCEA started is evidence of this directive being implemented?’ 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: There is actually no policy to increase the use of internal assessment. One of the strong features of NCEA that people would agree on is that it does allow for internal and external assessment which is much more like a university kind of environment. That is why for example it is a better predictor of university success—as John Hattie’s research showed recently. It would interest the member to know that there has been a slight increase in internal assessment at levels 1 and 3 but almost no noticeable increase at all at level 2. 
Katherine Rich 
: When the Minister says it is not policy what are New Zealand Qualifications Authority documents that urge schools to consider internally assessed unit standards as a safety net; and what does he think that advice from the authority to schools was if not a directive? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I think the member is referring to the frequent workshops that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority holds with schools whereby the authority talks through the different styles of assessment with the school. One of the things that schools need to consider is the appropriate form of assessment for a student for a given subject. For example it is obviously better to have students internally assessed if they are say part of a learning to be a chef course or if they are doing the speaking part of a unit standard. 
Katherine Rich 
: Gift-wrapping. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The member raises the notion of gift-wrapping. As I pointed out earlier in the Chamber these are standards set only at level 1; they are not at levels 2 or 3. They were originally constructed for students who have less ability. The member—and Mr Power with his law degree—may not want students who have lesser ability to leave school with anything at all. But I think that for students leaving say after getting level 1 and a unit standard that shows they can for example wrap gifts then they could work in a store somewhere and it could be a useful part of their job. That is a useful thing for them to do and it may get them a job. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Kia ora Madam Speaker. Has the Minister read the scoping report for Te Kotahitanga which states: “This deficit theorising by teachers is the major impediment to Maori students’ educational achievement for it results in teachers having low expectations of Maori students.” which I would suggest explains why 53 percent of Maori boys and 45 percent of Maori girls leave school without gaining level 1 NCEA qualifications; and what initiatives will he be pursuing with colleges of education to ensure they address such matters in their programmes? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Yes I have read that and I agree absolutely with it. I think Russell Bishop is right. Actually he is right not just for Maori students by the way but for working-class kids like me for example. I can look back on my own history and see that the same notion of deficit theorising as Russell Bishop calls it has been part of the educational system to the detriment of students from those kinds of groups. A change in that attitude as his research shows makes a huge difference to those kids. What can we do? As the member knows we are about to release a discussion paper on initial teacher education. One of the major features of that discussion will be the way initial teacher education addresses the needs of Maori which have not been addressed properly in teachers colleges until now and now in the university setting. I am looking for a real change in that area. 
Katherine Rich 
: When the Prime Minister says that she is “at somewhat of a loss” to explain why the recording of failure has not happened when this was agreed by the Government 2 years ago why was the Minister still saying last September: “There is no place on such a list for the things that people have not yet attained or perhaps not even attempted.”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: As I mentioned to the member before these issues are under consideration as part of the design changes going on around the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. It might be useful just to walk through what is available now because it is clear that is not widely understood by the member. Student results notices are different from the record of learning. There are two things that students get—a record of learning and a results notice. The results notice carries a “not achieved” for externally assessed standards. The New Zealand Qualifications Authority does not deliver that information around internally assessed statements because of course the school has that. The record of learning does not carry any information about “not achieved”. That is the question that is being considered—should “not achieved” be on the record of learning should it be on the results notice. Most of the members on the National side of the House such as Mr English will have a university degree. His failures will not be shown on his degree only his successes in getting that degree at the end of the day. 
Katherine Rich 
: When the Prime Minister says that the Government agreed 2 years ago to return to recording failure on students’ records of learning and has said that she is “somewhat at a loss” as to why it has not happened why did the Minister not do that? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: One of the reasons is that I was not in this portfolio 2 years ago as the member knows so I suppose she wants to point to someone else. But she does not need to; I am fully happy to take responsibility for it. At the risk of repetition of what I said yesterday as I told the member this is the State Services Commission report which reported in 2005. We focused on operational issues because they were urgent to make sure the system worked. The system now does. We have made design changes in a range of areas and we are about to do the last part of those changes. The member will be so relieved to see them I am sure.