McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Question Time 
McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Question Time 
[Volume:610;Page:7425] 
1. Hon MURRAY McCULLY (NZ National—East Coast Bays) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: What specific matters has she requested that Mr Andrew Lockhart General Manager of the New Zealand Immigration Service investigate as reported in today’s  
New Zealand Herald 
 and why has she done so? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 I spoke with the general manager Mr Andrew Lockhart last night after I had spoken to the  
New Zealand Herald 
 and asked him to inquire into the allegations that had been raised by a  
New Zealand Herald 
 reporter concerning a complaint made to the Ombudsman and responses from the New Zealand Immigration Service. I felt there were sufficient concerns raised by the journalist to refer the matter to the general manager but I did say that I would need to know what the Ombudsman had been asked for. Prior to coming down to the House I was advised that the matter has been referred to the Secretary of Labour and that terms of reference for the review are being drawn up today. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Given that Mr Lockhart was one of the recipients of the “We agreed to lie in unison.” memorandum how could it be that Mr Lockhart was one of the officials who falsely advised the Ombudsman that such material was not held by the Immigration Service and what sort of reliance would this House place on any report he might make? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The member obviously did not hear the last bit of my answer to the first question. The matter has been referred to the Secretary of Labour. Terms of reference for the inquiry are being established today. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Now that it is clear Mr Smith lied to the  
New Zealand Herald 
 on 12 December and both Mr Lockhart and Mr Smith lied to the Ombudsman has it occurred to the Minister that Mr Smith’s memo stating “We agreed to lie in unison.” might be a very accurate record of her officials’ intentions? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: As I explained in the House yesterday the conversation on 12 December was in fact an accurate answer to the question that had been put to Mr Smith. There is no confirmation as to the details of the issues relating to the Ombudsman. I would wait until the results of the inquiry before making those allegations here or anywhere else. 
Rodney Hide 
: Could the Minister explain to this House why the public should have any confidence in her department when its top communicating expert said: “We agreed to lie in unison.” when the Minister herself told this House that she had been lied to by her own staff and when we now discover courtesy of the  
New Zealand Herald 
 that the same department has lied to the Ombudsman; why should we have any confidence in this department when its staff appear to be a pack of liars? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I have not said that anyone has lied to me in respect of this matter. I have also asked for an inquiry into the question that has been raised in the  
New Zealand Herald 
 this morning. I will await the results of that inquiry. 
Rodney Hide 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the  
Hansard  
of the Minister’s answer on 15 October 2000 when she said that her officials had not told her the truth. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is objection.