edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15420] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. The member has made one of two points that I would have made. I would like to have an assurance from you that as part of the process you did not refer to the Minister in the chair the Hon John Carter on this matter. I saw you talking to the Minister in the chair and the Minister in the chair is confirming from behind you that he did look at it and you were talking about it. This is quite a hard position for me to be in but you know and I know that it is inappropriate for the Chair to discuss a matter to do with relevance with the Minister in the chair. I saw you discussing it with the Minister and—[ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy) 
: The member is raising a point of order and it will be heard in silence. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: —I do of course seek your assurance that that was not the case. 
But as this appears to be a new ruling—and I have been looking at Speakers’ rulings in preparation for the possibility of this happening—I would like an indication from you maybe by a nod or a wink that this is a new ruling and is not one based on a precedent currently within the Standing Orders or Speakers’ rulings.
Young Jonathan: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Young Jonathan: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15515] 
JONATHAN YOUNG (National—New Plymouth) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: The title clauses are usually a summing up but I have not heard a lot of summing up at this stage. I will take one more call in the hope that I get some fresh material.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15419] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That Part 2 be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Part 2 agreed to.
Parker David: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Parker David: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15442] 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) 
: 
 I have a very narrow point in respect of the Leader of the House’s contribution in which he said the Committee had already resolved that this matter was beyond the scope of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2). I say no that was not what happened; it was that the Speaker had determined that the Committee could not consider it which is a different matter from whether this motion should succeed. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: This is a serious issue; I fully accept that. Members are right to share their thoughts on it with the Speaker. I do not believe the Speaker has to automatically accept this motion because the Speaker must not allow the House to go down a path that is not consistent with the Standing Orders. The particular issue as I understand it is that the member is trying here to enable the House to instruct itself that the Committee go back and reconsider something that the Committee has already decided on. The Committee has dealt with Part 1 of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2). I was recalled to the Chamber and I have already ruled as Speaker that the member’s amendments were properly dealt with as part of Part 1 and therefore could not be dealt with by way of separate parts. That is the issue. The Committee of the whole House has already moved past the time when those amendments could be made at the Committee stage. 
It would seem to me that if there is an issue here the more appropriate way would be to look at it by recommittal at the third reading for example; then the House could consider the matter in a more consistent way as part of the third reading. It does not seem to me to be appropriate given that the Committee of the whole House has passed this point of the bill to allow a debate on that matter because I would be allowing something that the Speaker has already ruled against. That does not seem to me to be appropriate. It is my ruling that the motion is out of order.
Goodhew Jo: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Goodhew Jo: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15453] 
JO GOODHEW (National—Rangitata) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I seek your assistance given that I believe we are probably looking at the same tabled document. The document I am looking at is entitled “Amendments to the Employment Relations Bill (No 2)”. We are currently debating and voting on the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2). Therefore I ask whether the document with suggested amendments is out of order.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15418] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 69 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 51 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Progressive 1. 
Motion agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 69 Noes 59.
Blue Jackie: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Blue Jackie: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15418] 
Dr JACKIE BLUE (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15441] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I can accept that the Leader of the House has identified a problem but the ability of the House to instruct the Committee is one that has been used on a number of occasions. It is a way of bringing things into scope that would otherwise be out of scope. The Speaker has ruled without undue protest from this side of the House that these amendments are out of scope for the Committee. The remedy that members have is a motion. The Leader of the House and the other National members have the ability to vote against the motion if they so wish and it is their right to do so but it is also the right of members to move such motions. It has happened at least two or three times in this Parliament while the House was considering a matter and before it was referred to the Committee.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15410] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 15 be agreed to: 
to add to section 125 the following new subsection: 
“(3)If this section applies and the employee concerned is also a union delegate health and safety representative or member of a party actively involved in bargaining the Authority must whether or not it provides for any of the other remedies provided for in section 123 provide wherever practicable for reinstatement as described in section 123(a).”
Woodhouse Michael: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Woodhouse Michael: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15412] 
MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) 
: 
 In respect of the speech made by the previous speaker Mr Mallard I draw his attention to clause 36 in Part 1 of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) which inserts new sections 223A to 223G. So in fact he is quite right: there is no section 223D in the Employment Relations Act as it currently is in the lobby because those new sections are being inserted by Part 1 of this bill. Therefore it is necessary to refer back to that section in schedule 2 and therefore there is no need for any change. I look forward to the call and the apology that he has offered.
Woodhouse Michael: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Woodhouse Michael: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15514] 
MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15453] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 51 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Progressive 1. 
Noes 69 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 1 be agreed to: 
to omit “Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2)” and substitute “Employment Relations (Trial Periods Union Access and Consequential Amendments) Amendment Bill”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15411] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That Part 1 as amended be agreed to 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Part 1 as amended agreed to.
Tisch Lindsay: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Tisch Lindsay: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15411] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The debate on this part includes schedule 2.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15411] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Amendment agreed to.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15411] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Kate Wilkinson to clause 9A be agreed to: 
to omit from subclause (2) “63(2)(b)” and substitute “63A(2)(b)”.
Vote: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15499] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 51 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Progressive 1. 
Noes 69 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 10 be agreed to: 
to omit from new section 28A(2)(c) “1 week” and substitute “1 day”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15410] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Part 1 be agreed to: 
to insert the following clause after clause 12: 
12GEffect of trial provision under section 67A 
Section 67B(5) is repealed and the following subsection substituted: 
“(5)If the reason for dismissal provided by the employer is alleged to be frivolous untrue or unfair the employee retains the right to take a personal grievance or legal proceedings in relation to that dismissal.”
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15410] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Part 1 be agreed to: 
to insert the following clause after clause 12: 
12FEffect of trial provision under section 67A 
Section 67B(2) is repealed.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15409] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Part 1 be agreed to: 
to insert the following clause after clause 12: 
12EWhen employment agreement may contain provision for trial period for 90 days or less 
Section 67A(2)(c) is amended by adding “except where the employer has not acted in good faith”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15408] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Part 1 be agreed to: 
to insert the following clause after clause 12: 
12BEffect of trial provision under 67A 
Section 67B(5)(b) is repealed.
Vote: Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee 
Vote: Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15535] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Bill be now read a second time. 
Ayes 63 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 4; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Bill read a second time.
Vote: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15509] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That schedule 1 be agreed to. 
Ayes 69 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 51 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Progressive 1. 
Schedule 1 agreed to.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15408] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 6 be agreed to: 
to omit from new section 20A(2)(a) “unreasonably”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15407] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 6 be agreed to: 
to omit from new section 20A(3) “ as soon as is reasonably practicable but no later than the working day after the date of the decision” and substitute “on the same day as the decision is given”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15408] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Part 1 be agreed to: 
to insert the following clause after clause 12: 
12AEffect of trial provision under section 67A 
Section 67B(5)(a) is repealed.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15454] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 51 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Progressive 1. 
Noes 69 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 56 Noes 64. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 1 be agreed to: 
to omit “Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2)” and substitute “Employment Relations (Flexibility for Employers) Amendment Bill”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15407] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 6 be agreed to: 
to add to new section 20A(1) “unless the access is required for the conducting of a secret ballot”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15407] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 6 be agreed to: 
to add to new section 20A(1) “unless the access is required for matters relating to redundancies or potential dismissals or where the union representative is seeking to represent a worker in an employment dispute”.
Woodhouse Michael: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Woodhouse Michael: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15402] 
MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) 
: 
 I would like to address the issue that was raised by the member Lynne Pillay in her last call in respect of clause 6 which inserts new section 20A of the Employment Relations Bill (No 2). Before I go to the details of this I say there is a bit of a preamble to it. The bill as it was introduced prescribed what could have been a maximum time frame of up to 4 working days for a union to be given a reason for access to be denied. In the consideration of the bill I believe it was the member Carol Beaumont who raised a concern about that being unduly prolonged. I supported that call. The officials to their credit realised that the initial policy intent was for that not to be the case but somewhere in the translation from policy to the bill the duration was doubled. They were very happy to recommend amendments that reduced the time frame for the whole thing to be wrapped up to within 2 working days. 
If we then step through the legislation as it stands bearing in mind that the goal is for any decision and the reasons to be communicated within 2 working days or deemed acceptance in that time we see that the obligation is on the employer to provide a response the working day after. If I as a union representative asked for access in writing on the Monday the obligation is on the employer to have responded by the end of the working day following—that is the end of Tuesday. If the employer does not do that then by the Wednesday access is deemed to have been granted. In terms of clause 6 it is necessary to keep section 20A(2)(c) referring to within 2 working days. In that scenario the Wednesday is within 2 working days and works mathematically. If permission is specifically denied the working day following then the obligation falls on the employer under 20A(3) “as soon as is reasonably practicable but no later than the working date after the date of the decision” to provide a reason why. That would also have been the Wednesday. 
So in that scenario everything is wrapped up on the Wednesday but the clause that the member thought may have been out of whack with the rest of the legislation is quite consistent with the intention that the select committee wanted to recommend back to the House. I suggest that no change to the bill is necessary.
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15450] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15443] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I think we have a bugger’s muddle here. We went on to a debate on Part 3. How could we possibly be in this situation? I think we might have to be in a recommittal phase fairly soon if we have not worked our way through this one properly. How could we possibly have started a debate on Part 3 without finishing? We cannot then go back. I accept we had closures. It might have been that you have missed the vote but if the votes have been missed and we are going to go back and reopen issues including schedule 2—and I accept that there has been some debate on schedule 2—and if votes were not taken in error then I think we are in a position where we have to recommit that question. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I thank the member. I will just take some advice from the Clerk. I say to the member that my advice is that the Part 3 debate the member refers to was ruled out of order. There is no Part 3 in the bill. My advice from the Clerk is that we started having votes on Part 2. The vote on the substance of Part 2 has ended and we are now having the votes on the schedules attached to Part 2. Once that is completed we will then go on to the next part and the next question before the Committee will be clauses 1 to 3.
Tisch Lindsay: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15499] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: There is a correction to the closure motion. The Ayes are 69 and the Noes are 51. The record will be amended. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 10 be agreed to: 
to insert in new section 28A(2) the following paragraph above paragraph (b): 
“(a)must be made in the absence of duress; and”.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15408] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 9 be agreed to: 
to omit this clause.
Henare Tau: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Henare Tau: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15399] 
Hon TAU HENARE (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Smith Lockwood: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Smith Lockwood: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15422] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thank honourable members. It is an interesting issue that has arisen and I myself will seek some further advice on the particular matters because I do not want to make any errors. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I actually wonder given the time whether we should seek leave for you to make a considered ruling and without interrupting urgency come back at 2 o’clock to give it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think that is not necessary. I can quickly consider the information put before me by members. Obviously the Chairperson is the sole judge of admissibility of an amendment. That is what Speakers’ ruling 78/1 makes very clear. In respect of a new part it must be considered in the context of the structure of the bill—that is as it is drafted and before the House. Part 1 deals with amendments to the principal Act the Employment Relations Act. It deals with matters contained in the proposed new Part 3. It is argued that the proposed new part should have been proposed as amendments to Part 1. As I understand it that is what the Chair of the Committee has ruled. I am somewhat persuaded by the argument put forward by the Hon John Carter that if we are to depart from that accepted understanding the risk is that members can continually relitigate issues by introducing what are essentially new parts as the Committee considers the debate part by part. There are a couple of problems with that because even if one argues that one is only constraining the measures contained in Part 1 that is still altering them as the Committee of the whole House has made its decisions on them. I rule in favour of the Chair’s decision that the proposed amendments are out of order. 
Sitting suspended from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m.
Blue Jackie: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Blue Jackie: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15404] 
Dr JACKIE BLUE (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Borrows Chester: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Borrows Chester: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15394] 
CHESTER BORROWS (National—Whanganui) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I have had a good thorough look through the bill and it seems to me that almost everything of substance is in the first part. There is not much anywhere else. So having said that I am prepared to allow this debate to go on a little longer. But I say to the Committee that on the other parts members can expect pretty short shrift from the Chair and a closer look at things.
Upston Louise: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Upston Louise: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15392] 
LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupo) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15422] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I shall speak very briefly; there is only one point I have. It was implicit in what the Hon John Carter said that these new parts would negate parts that have already been passed. That is certainly not the case. They are designed to restrict and to provide conditions on but not to negate.
Henare Tau: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Henare Tau: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15483] 
Hon TAU HENARE (National) 
: 
 Somebody could have just asked me and I would have apologised. There is another word for it—divert. That is another word for it. We are back to it now are we not? Money was diverted—members’ dues were diverted—to the Labour Party. It is the same thing and the same story and most of the workers did not know it was happening. 
Darien Fenton 
: That’s bullshit. 
Hon TAU HENARE 
: Sorry? What was that? It was bull what? 
Darien Fenton 
: Bull. 
Hon TAU HENARE 
: Oh OK. We have got right down to the gutter now. That is the union representative I know from long ago. No holds barred and she talks like the old cloth-cap unionist Helen Kelly’s dad used to be and he was proud of it. Helen Kelly’s dad was proud of being a cloth-cap unionist. This is nothing more than a steal of workers’ rights.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15409] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Part 1 be agreed to: 
to insert the following clause after clause 12: 
12CEffect of trial provision under 67A 
Section 67B(5) is repealed.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15455] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That clause 3 be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Clause 3 agreed to. 
House resumed. 
Bill reported with amendment.
Barker Rick: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Barker Rick: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15475] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: The debate on this part includes schedule 1. I recognise the Hon Trevor Mallard.
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15455] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I think that if you look carefully you will see there are two sets of dates for which there are amendments not just one. Although a decision has been made not to amend one of the dates there has not yet been a decision not to amend the other. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: It does not matter that the member has asked for leave to withdraw one of the amendments. All the amendments are to commencement dates and I have ruled that they are out of order as the decision of the Committee has already been made on the commencement date.
Bennett David: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Bennett David: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15406] 
DAVID BENNETT (National—Hamilton East) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Barker Rick: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Barker Rick: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15518] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I move  
That the report be adopted 
.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15409] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to Part 1 be agreed to: 
to insert the following clause after clause 12: 
12DWhen employment agreement may contain provision for trial period for 90 days or less 
Section 67A is amended by adding the following subsection— 
“(6)A trial provision may not be included in any advertisement for a job as a pre-requisite for employment in that job.”
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:668;Page:15423] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Are you therefore ruling that if a question were to the Minister of Labour and asked whether x applied only to the labour portfolio or whether it applied to the broadcasting portfolio when it was already accepted that it applied to the labour one that would be an appropriate question to put down to the Minister of Labour? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The problem with the member’s question is that it does not ask that. The member’s question asks whether it applies only to the labour portfolio. I would expect Ministers under the collective responsibility of Cabinet to have some idea whether statements they are making apply only to their portfolio. Certainly they may not be able to answer across all portfolios but the question does not ask that. If members want to pursue that type of point of order a little more care needs to go into the wording of the question. I am aware that there was some exchange over the wording of this question and the reason why there was some exchange over this was that there was concern that the quote was taken out of context. That is an issue that has arisen before today and it is a serious issue. Members have the chance to get the wording consistent with the Standing Orders so that the quote was not taken out of context. This was the wording that I understand the member putting the question agreed to but unfortunately it does not ask about all portfolios; it just asks whether that statement applies only to the labour portfolio.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15382] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a second time. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Bill read a second time.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15382] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments recommended by the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee by majority be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Question agreed to.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15443] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That schedule 1 be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 57 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1; Independent: Carter. 
Schedule 1 agreed to.
Henare Tau: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Henare Tau: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15506] 
Hon TAU HENARE (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Henare Tau: Maori Purposes Bill — First Reading 
Henare Tau: Maori Purposes Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:668;Page:15375] 
Hon TAU HENARE (National) 
: 
 I will take just a very quick call with regard to the estate of Pukepuke Tangiora. When Labour was last in Government—yes I know I have something growing on my lip but if you want to donate by all means donate. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy) 
: The member should not include me in his speech. 
Hon TAU HENARE 
: Well I thought Mr Assistant Speaker might want to donate. That is fine; it is OK if you do not want to. But can you imagine 120 people giving $5 each for a worthy cause? But I digress. I wanted to take a brief call on the estate of Pukepuke Tangiora because it should have been sorted out by the previous Labour Government’s Minister of Maori Affairs then. He was given a report by the Maori Affairs Committee asking him to sort it out. It is only now—nearly 3 years later—that our Minister of Maori Affairs the Hon Dr Pita Sharples has seen fit to do what the select committee asked the previous Minister of Maori Affairs to do. So I say thank you to the Minister of Maori Affairs. 
I will finish by saying this is a great place—this is a great place—when one of my enemies from a long time ago can walk across the House and donate $5 to a worthy cause. I publicly say thank you to the Hon Trevor Mallard. 
Bill read a first time.  
Bill referred to the Maori Affairs Committee.
Bridges Simon: Maori Purposes Bill — First Reading 
Bridges Simon: Maori Purposes Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:668;Page:15374] 
SIMON BRIDGES (National—Tauranga) 
: 
 It is good to take what I hope will be a very brief call on the Maori Purposes Bill which will come to the Maori Affairs Committee ably chaired by Mr Tau Henare. This is an omnibus bill. It is a fairly technical bill really that will amend three Acts. It will be split into parts later down the track: the Maori Fisheries Amendment Bill the Maori Trust Boards Amendment Bill and Te Ture Whenua Maori Amendment Bill. I suppose if there is a common theme in what we are doing—and there generally is—it is that we are working to improve lives and the prospects of all Maori by cutting red tape and streamlining regulations. Effectively I suggest that this bill is pro-business. It is for better management and governance skills for Maori generally and in Maori organisation trust boards estates constitutions and the like—really providing a good environment and good policy settings sound settings for business success. 
I will take this moment while we are talking about doing that and Maori business to just bear a thought for the kiwifruit industry. It is not widely known that part of the backbone of the industry a strength is Maori. Through Te Awanui Huka Pak in the Bay of Plenty one has with its amalgamation with from memory Seeka the biggest pack-houses in New Zealand. They are Maori-run for Maori. They have for many many years been working with and supporting Maori kiwifruit owners of which there are many. So the idea that is out there that Maori are not good at business and that they are new to business is absolutely not true if one looks at the kiwifruit industry. They are as I said a backbone of the kiwifruit industry—certainly in the Bay of Plenty and I am sure if I look through it in other parts of the nation as well. They are going through a difficult time at the moment. It is an uncertain time but the Government is working very hard on it. I am sure that the very best solution to a difficult set of facts will emerge very shortly.
Voting — Correction—Holidays Amendment Bill 
Voting — Correction—Holidays Amendment Bill 
[Volume:668;Page:15532] 
Voting 
Correction—Holidays Amendment Bill 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: The result of the vote in the Committee of the whole House on the Holidays Amendment Bill on the question that clause 2 be agreed to was incorrectly announced as the Ayes 69 and the Noes 49. The correct result is Ayes 69 and Noes 51. The record will be corrected.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15455] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 51 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Progressive 1. 
Noes 69 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 5; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The remaining amendments to the commencement date in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard and Carol Beaumont are ruled out of order as they are inconsistent with the decision of the Committee.
Roy Eric: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Roy Eric: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15420] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy) 
: Let me respond to the points. I can understand the member’s frustration given that we have started the debate on new Part 3. Yes dialogue has been going on around here. The member will have also noticed that a quite senior Clerk came in with some advice for us. I ignored all comments from any other section. I did confer with the Clerk at the Table and then we sought advice by telephone and got a more comprehensive explanation because this was new territory for me. I have not had to rule on anything as precise as this. I guess there are some points around whether it is in contradiction or whatever but the advice I have had with which I concur is that these elements that relate to Part 1 should have been dealt with at that time. I give the member an assurance that I am not influenced—and I am a little bit hurt that he had to ask the question—by the Minister in the chair; I might need counselling! But in that regard no I sought advice from the highest authority available to me and therefore I make the ruling.
Mallard Trevor: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Holidays Amendment Bill — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15509] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. It is a minor matter and it is a matter that I have referred to. I refer you to Standing Order 136. The Speaker is required to state the result of the voice vote. I am not challenging your ruling asking the Speaker to come back or anything like that; I am just indicating that point. I know you are getting a bit tired but in future— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy) 
: I think the member would note through my conduct in the second vote that I had already absorbed the point he made. I thank him for his contribution.
Carter John: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Carter John: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15421] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Minister of Civil Defence) 
: 
 I shall respond to those comments by making these two points. One is that obviously I took advice on this issue as well. I was told that the amendment interferes with the fundamental direction of the legislation particularly in relation to Part 1 and previous Acts. As a consequence the amendment proposed actually would amend Part 1 if it were passed and of course previous Acts as well. So that is an important point. The second point is that in all the time I have been in the House if there is to be an additional amendment it is done during the debate on the part rather than as an addition to it later on. I suggest that if we were to allow this to happen we would be opening up a whole new way in which we deal with legislation. We could pass one part or two parts or 10 parts then somebody could come up with a new idea and add it in as an addendum. Quite honestly I think we would be unwise to go down that path. If members have a view they should express it at the time that the part is being deliberated on.
Tisch Lindsay: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:668;Page:15456] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I move  
That the report be adopted.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:668;Page:15406] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand Labour 41; Green Party 9; Maori Party 5; Progressive 1. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Trevor Mallard to clause 6 be agreed to: 
to add to new section 20A(1) “unless the access is required for urgent health and safety matters”.