Upston LouiseHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō): Thank you Madam Chairperson Williams. I want to just look at some other aspects in this particular bill. I think for those who have been watching the debate from home or listening on the radio I just want to go back to the objectives of the legislation around providing targeted social assistance to improve incomes for low- and middle-income families reducing child poverty and ensuring that children get the best start in life.I've got a couple more amendments that I would like to discuss in this part of the debate. I may not get through the details of both of them but I will give it my best shot. I would really like the Minister in the chair Stuart Nash to be able to answer some of the questions that I have got because I think they're really important in terms of just how the Government is going to actually deliver on the objectives of the legislation. So I know the debate has focused quite a lot in this recent time around the winter energy payment. I want to go broader than that because a significant amount of this legislation is about supporting people on benefit. It's about supporting children from low-income families and about lifting the opportunities for them.The first amendment that I would like to talk about is a proposed change to the Social Security Act 1964 both in terms of the principles and also in terms of the interpretation. One of the things that was clear in our time in office was that one of the significant contributing factors to children living in poverty and hardship was coming from a benefit-dependent home. So I am proposing to assist the Government in that the interpretation should include a definition of the risk of long-term welfare dependency in relation to a person meaning the risk that the person will for an indefinite period not be able to obtain full-time employment and secondly will be likely to remain wholly or largely dependent for the person's financial support on all or part of the main benefit under the Act.I'm very specific about this Madam Chair and I want to applaud the Government. A big part of this package is supporting children in benefit-dependent homes. So I do think that it's really important in terms of adding this interpretation so that the Government has a focus on the children of long-term beneficiaries. And the second part of it is amending the principles to include the ability to assist them in getting better outcomes than currently the best possible outcome for people at risk of long-term welfare dependency—that there is the ability for the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) to identify appropriate assistance support and services under this Act for those people. So that speaks to the very heart of social investment.I know that the Prime Minister in particular has come out and talked about the fact that child poverty is her number one priority. Well I offer the Prime Minister the nine years of experience of the previous Government in social investment and the work that has gone into understanding real people with real needs and how to provide assistance. And I would really encourage the Minister in the chair the Hon Stuart Nash or for other members on the other side and in particular the Minister for Children I'm sure will have an interest in this—that is being able to provide greater ability to support those on benefit using social investment. Yes specifically this talks about a winter energy payment but for those on benefit actually MSD may identify additional ways to serve that family and to serve those children.I would really hope that the members opposite take up this opportunity if they are seriously committed to reducing the amount of children living in poverty in New Zealand to address this particular issue with this amendment that I have put in my name in this committee stage. It is important that it is debated. It is at the heart of what this Government says is a priority and in fact the Prime Minister on every occasion talks about it being her priority. I say: this is the access. Social investment is the access to changing the lives of the very—[Bell rung] Madam Chair?The CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): I call the Hon Amy Adams.Hon Amy Adams: Thank you Madam Chair.The CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): I apologise to the member. I will call the Hon Louise Upston again.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Thank you Madam Chair. One of the things that's become a little concerning in the legislation and in particular in the regulatory impact statement is that the number of children that will be lifted out of poverty under this package isn't the 88000 that has been talked about in the media but only an additional 12000. So as I said I'm hoping that members on the other side will give the committee the opportunity to have the factual information. Is it 88000? Is it 12000? Is it the 49000 that would already benefit from the previous Government's legislated Budget package?So I do then want to talk to another amendment that I have tabled in the committee that would add new subsections into the Families Package (Income Tax and Benefits) Bill. The first one is: to reduce child poverty and ensure children get the best start in life the Government will set measurable targets to improve outcomes for low- and middle-income families with children. Again this piece of legislation at the very heart of it is about improving the lives of young New Zealanders. I'm sure that New Zealanders up and down this country will want to know how the Government is measuring its progress—how the Government is tracking—and as I said I'll put to one side for a moment the complete confusion around the numbers about whether it's 12000 additional whether it's our 49000 or whether it is 88000 some time out in the future. But I want to focus on the fact that this incredibly important objective set by the current Government should actually come with some targets it should come with some measures and it should come with the ability of New Zealanders to actually see whether these measures and whether this piece of legislation is working.So the second subsection that I would propose to the committee for its inclusion in this legislation is: To reduce child poverty the Government must set a target and measure progress on reducing the number of children living in households earning less than 50 percent of the median wage by 88000 by July 2021." That is about the Prime Minister and the Labour-led Government basically walking the talk and saying "Here is how we will prove to New Zealand here is how we will openly and transparently show that we are making progress towards this critically important area for New Zealand." for the very children that supposedly are at the heart of this Prime Minister's view. We can add this today. I think this would put us off to a really strong start in being able to with the Christmas present that the Labour-led Government is giving New Zealanders—I want them to add that they will set a target and they will measure progress on reducing the number of children living in households earning less than 50 percent. And I encourage the Minister in the chair to answer a question in terms of why that's not already in the legislation because it is absolutely critical. It's important in terms of backing up the Government's words around openness and transparency and with their number one priority.Also I'd like the Minister in the chair or members opposite to address the issues that I've raised around social investment and the progress that we've seen with 61000 fewer children living in benefit-dependent homes in the nine years we were in office. I'd like to see that side of the Chamber—you know one member would be fine three would be great. Whether it's the Minister for Children or the Minister in the chair addressing these very important issues that are about absolutely supporting those on benefits supporting those and targeting—the words in the bill are around targeting social assistance and the risk framework enables the Government to do that and to improve incomes for low- and middle-income families with children but critically if nothing else to reduce child poverty.When the National-led Government was in office we made progress on this. It's incredibly difficult I accept that but I think—[Time expired]"