Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 10 December 2013. Volume:695;Page:15345. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]1.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to theMinister for Social Development: Will she set specific targets for reducing child poverty; if so what child poverty measures will she use?Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development): This Government has committed to four Better Public Services targets that will help children. They are reducing long-term welfare dependency increasing participation in early childhood education increasing rates of immunisation and decreasing the incidence of rheumatic fever and reducing the number of assaults on children. Added to that are targets related to the economy and jobs which of course have a direct impact on child poverty. There are a number of measures of poverty and the Child Poverty Monitor which was released yesterday itself also recognised the complexity of the issue and used a range of measures.Dr Russel Norman: Can the Minister answer the primary question which is will she set specific targets for reducing child poverty?Hon PAULA BENNETT: We already have.Dr Russel Norman: Can the Minister tell the House what are the specific measures of the targets for reducing child poverty?Hon PAULA BENNETT: As I have said child poverty is multidimensional and there is a multi-measure approach. In fact the Ministry of Social Development has a strong position in that no single measure can actually properly capture the different aspects of poverty and we therefore use the multi-measure approach. We are open and transparent in reporting that. In fact the information that was used for the Child Poverty Monitor released yesterday used all of the information that the ministry itself reports. Those reports show that it has been on a flat line for the last 3 to 4 years which considering the global financial crisis that we went through shows that we have been quite remarkable I think in keeping it there. But there is absolutely no doubt that we need to do more work and that is what we are concentrating on.Dr Russel Norman: Given that the Minister says that there are many measures of child poverty would she care to pick one of those measures of child poverty specifically and tell us what her target is for that measure of child poverty?Hon PAULA BENNETT: It would be quite easy for me to go to the Better Public Services target of 90 percent of 8-month-olds fully immunised by December 2014 and that 90 percent of 8-month-olds nationally have completed scheduled vaccinations. Also reducing the incidence of rheumatic fever by two-thirds to 1.4 cases per 100000 is a real target that this Government has set and has a direct impact and of course it is all about child poverty.Dr Russel Norman: Well I appreciate the Minister—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Just come to the supplementary question.Dr Russel Norman: Well can the Minister tell the House—aside from the targets she mentioned about immunisation and rheumatic fever which are health targets—what is one specific child poverty target that actually addresses the measures of child poverty as identified by the Children’s Commissioner?Hon PAULA BENNETT: The member raises in his question both measures and targets. What we have are multidimensional measures because of the complexity of the issue which we report on through Ministry of Social Development reports on householdincomes and which we saw in the report yesterday. So there is your answer on your measures. Another target that I can well and truly point to is us actually addressing the economy and making sure that we have more jobs and better-paying jobs for New Zealanders. Unless we get that right quite frankly we are not doing the best by those children who need us.Dr Russel Norman: Does the Minister believe that she has responsibility for the rates of child poverty and hence how does she measure the rates of child poverty?Hon PAULA BENNETT: I believe that all of us do.Dr Russel Norman: Without an official measure of child poverty—because the Minister has failed to provide one so far—how can she possibly know whether the policies she is promoting are working or not without some measure to determine rates of child poverty?Hon PAULA BENNETT: Well as I have stated there are a number of measures. They are reported on. The member himself can point to them and then hold the Government to account if he wishes to. Quite frankly Australia and Canada are the same as us and use multi-measures and do not have just one. Actually to use just one would not actually be getting into the depth of what is a very complex issue.Dr Russel Norman: Does the Minister believe that Mr Mandela was right when he said that overcoming poverty is an act of justice and hence her failure as a Minister in 5 years to overcome poverty means that one in four children is now still living in poverty and one in 10 children is living in extreme poverty? Is that a matter of justice for those children or are they still living with injustice?Hon PAULA BENNETT: I do not have responsibility for the first half but what I would say is that we actually take the care and well-being of those children incredibly seriously. We have a number of issues that we are actually addressing. It is not one simple one that will actually fix this. We have flat-lined over the last 3 years. We would like to do better than that and we will but at the moment what we are concentrating on are the actions that they need on the ground. I can talk about the $1.5 million that has gone intoKidsCan. I can talk about the food in schools that we are supporting throughKickStart to make sure that they have breakfast and lunch in schools. I can talk a lot about the microfinance scheme that we are getting up and running. I can talk about warrants of fitness for houses. I can talk about 240000 homes that have now been warmed up. I can talk about the extra bedrooms—Mr SPEAKER: Order!