Clendon David: Prohibition of Gang Insignia in Government Premises Bill — Second ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeClendon David: Prohibition of Gang Insignia in Government Premises Bill — Second Reading[Sitting date: 15 May 2013. Volume:690;Page:9964. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]DAVID CLENDON (Green): Unfortunately Mr Sabin I am going to disappoint you as I am sure I so often do. We have heard a lot already about some of the difficulties and the problems with the Prohibition of Gang Insignia in Government Premises Bill. To begin on a positive note I would have to say that the bill appears to be well intentioned. It does identify a real problem. Essentially that problem is one of intimidation. People feel intimidated by young men—and indeed not-so-young men—strutting around wearing gang patches specifically inside public buildings and Government buildings places where people who might be going around their legitimate business and where staff members have a right to feel protected and safe. This bill may be well intentioned. There is a real problem there. It is by no means a new problem. In fact the problem is at least 40 years old. That is worth repeating: the problem of gangs has been around for something like 40 years. Unfortunately we see nothing in this draft legislation that will take us anywhere near solving that problem or removing that problem of intimidation. It is not so much about what a person may or may not be wearing; it is about attitude and it is about behaviour. This bill goes nowhere towards solving the deep-seated real underlying causes of those behaviours. It is very superficial and will not work and we see no reason to support it.The essence of the bill is found in clause 6 which makes a fairly straightforward statement. It says: “No person may display gang insignia at any time in Government premises.” and anyone doing so is subject to up to a $2000 fine. That seems like a pretty reasonable and a fairly straightforward proposition but unfortunately it is far from it. This law as has been pointed out by previous Labour speakers borders on the absurd in the sense that it would if not become unenforceable put the police in a ridiculous situation of having to arrest somebody who is sitting quietly at a bus stop if they happen to be wearing a patch.There are major issues about identifying what actually is gang insignia. Although we have heard a great deal from the Government benches about one submission we have not heard so much about the very good and comprehensive submission for example from Steven Rollo who presented the Law and Order Committee with a large number of images photographs of insignia and other forms of decoration if you like that might appear to look like insignia to the layperson. A person working in a Work and Income New Zealand office in Masterton or a Housing New Zealand office in Manukau would have no idea how to distinguish between gang insignia that is barred according to this legislation and the number of gangs listed in it and a garment a T-shirt a cap a badge or a buckle which one could buy and wear perfectly legally. It is incredibly difficult for people—for non-experts if you like—for laypeople including Government employees to identify what is gang insignia and what is not. The likelihood of provoking responses from people undesirable responses if you challenge them for thegarments they are wearing if they are legally wearing those garments is not worth the candle. There is simply not enough benefit in this bill. There is not sufficient in this bill.Mike Sabin: Well if it’s a wrist strap or an innocuous bandana around the ankle is it really a problem?DAVID CLENDON: I invite Mr Sabin to look at Steven Rollo’s submission and look at the reality of the problem. The police officer who was there said the police have no problem identifying gang insignia. It is not an issue for the police. It is about public servants and members of the public who will have no idea what is gang insignia and what is not.There is the notion of Government premises. Again this has been traversed already; I will not dwell on it. But there is the absurdity of a person breaking the law by quite innocently wearing a patch while standing on a footpath under a verandah or sitting in a bus shelter. They can be subject to arrest their vehicles can be searched and so on. This is bad law. It makes no sense to write law that puts police in ridiculous situations where they are obliged to prosecute behaviour that is not intended to be covered in the legislation.The list of unintended consequences of this bill could go on at some length. I have made the point that the problem of gangs has been with us for some time. I recommend to anybody with a genuine interest in gangs in New Zealand and an interest in solving the problem or the suite of problems around them that they have a read of this book recently published by Dr Jarrod Gilbert calledPatched: The History of Gangs in New Zealand. It was the basis of a PhD thesis and is now converted into a very readable book and I commend it to anybody who is genuinely interested in the problem of gangs and the solutions to gangs. It is an excellent social history a political history and it outlines from a person who has had very close relationships with gangs the nature of the problem.There is a quotation in the book that I would like to read from a former member of this House in fact. In the context of talking about gangs and gang violence he said this: “The problems of gangs will not be solved by throwing a law at it.” I think that is something we should keep in our minds in our day-to-day work as MPs—problems cannot necessarily be solved by throwing a law at it. That former MP and former Minister went on to say that alienation and lack of job opportunities were two key drivers of this gang behaviour. I suspect the members of the Government will be wondering who this MP was assuming he was some left-leaning—[Interruption] close not quite—left liberal but in fact it was Jim McLay in 1979. As Minister of Justice he said: “The problems of gangs will not be solved by throwing a law at it.”We are seeing with this legislation unfortunately an attempt to throw a law at the problem. The law will simply bounce off. We can put our hands up to certain behaviours and say “thou shalt not” but if we do not remove the underlying causes of that behaviour we are simply dealing with symptoms not causes and unfortunately that is what this bill does.I would like to quote another former politician also referenced in respect of this bill who said: “Parliament must examine closely the social economic and community climate that breeds and fosters the kind of alienation and brutal desperation that we saw last weekend.” That was in 1979. It was Bill Rowling talking about an incident in Moerewa—an incredibly violent incident where a number of police officers and firefighters were seriously hurt as a result of gang violence. In 1979—Mark Mitchell: By gang members.DAVID CLENDON: —by gang members. Already the problem then was 10 years old. Policemen were carried away seriously hurt. We have not resolved that problem.This legislation may be a worthy attempt but it does not get to the core of the issue. It makes no pretence of dealing with the underlying causes of gang violence and gang behaviours which we want to drive out.Robert Muldoon made some commentary on gangs in his day and sought to resolve the problem by creating work opportunities—the detached youth workers. Essentially they were mostly former—and indeed existing—gang members who brought groups of gang members together found work contracts for them kept them busy and gave them a source of income. They did not rely on drugs intimidation and other forms of offending. It was a rather enlightened approach I have to say and that is the sort of response we need.We need to drill down to the real causes of offending. We need to look at what is actually going on here. This bill creates so many perverse incentives. I believe that having a particular gang name listed in the legislation in the regulations will become something of a moniker—it will be something gang members are proud of. They will actually behave in ways that will ensure that their gang insignia gets named in the legislation. It will be point of pride with them which is an incredibly perverse incentive to put into law.I would like to give the last word in this speech at least to Jarrod Gilbert the author of this very good book. He says: “As long as New Zealand has communities faced with poor education overcrowded housing unemployment family abuse poverty the country will always have gangs. Steam is the inevitable result of water being boiled and gangs are the clear result of certain social conditions.” This legislation perhaps takes us one step forward but will in fact put us two steps back. It is not readily enforceable legislation. It does not address core issues. It does not address causes of behaviour. It does not address causes of offending. It has been described as window dressing and sadly we cannot see anything in it beyond that and will not be supporting the bill.Debate interrupted.