11. Question No. 11—Health (Māori Health)HARETE HIPANGO (National) to the Associate Minister of Health (Māori Health)Question No. 11—Health (Māori Health)11. HARETE HIPANGO (National) to the Associate Minister of Health (Māori Health): Will the Ministry of Health release Māori health data in the manner requested by the Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency and how much have Government departments spent to date on legal costs in relation to this issue?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health) on behalf of the Associate Minister of Health (Māori Health): This morning I have been advised the Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency have filed further legal proceedings with the High Court on this matter. Accordingly I am limited in what I can say related to an ongoing matter before the court. The Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency—the commissioning agency—has asked for personally identifiable data for all people recorded as domicile in the North Island and identifying as Māori in the COVID-19 vaccine and immunisation programme's data set specifically requesting data of Māori who have had no or only one vaccine dose. In the High Court's recent decision the court accepted that the ministry must carefully weigh the public health need to maximise vaccinations against COVID-19 with its obligations under the Privacy Act 2020 as an agency in possession of personal information.In reconsidering the commissioning agency's request in light of the High Court's judgment I'm advised that the ministry has considered evidence provided by the commissioning agency as well as a wide range of views from Māori leaders Māori health experts and representatives from Māori organisations including iwi. I'm confident that the ministry has been carefully weighing its obligations in all respects. What is important to everyone is increasing Māori vaccination uptake. It's my expectation that Te Tiriti principles and the application of tikanga will result in appropriate data sharing. I expect that a way forward will be found however now the legal process must play out and discussions are ongoing.Regarding the legal cost associated with this matter I'm advised that as at 27 October 2021 the Ministry of Health's external legal costs have been $72174.26 exclusive of GST. A more recent figure is not available due to billing cycles. As Associate Minister of Health I am only able to speak to the Ministry of Health's costs and not costs accrued by other Government agencies.Harete Hipango: Does he agree with the Minister for Māori Development that we're in an emergency situation and Whānau Ora should be given that information."?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister yes. The High Court in its judgment said that this was an emergency situation and the Minister for Māori Development was reflecting that sentiment. I think if you have a look at the court judgment the fact that the court did not order specific disclosure of data but in fact ordered the ministry to reconsider its decision suggested that the court struggled with where the line was to be drawn between data that should be released that was appropriate and in accordance with the ministry weighing its competing obligations.Harete Hipango: Does he agree with the Minister of Health that the court process is a waste of time for all involved and that he "hopes the ministry will give Whānau Ora the data they need."?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister I know that the Minister of Health takes a very considered view on these things and as a former litigation lawyer he understands truly how much litigation can be a complete waste of time and money. Both the Minister of Health and I urge the parties to continue their discussions so that additional data can be released so that we can get the vaccination campaign for Māori continuing.Harete Hipango: Why is the Ministry of Health able to share individual patient data personally identifiable information with Healthline but not with the Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Again on behalf of the Minister that was a factor that the High Court drew attention to in its decision on this matter released this week. But I again draw that member's attention to the effect of the court decision which was not to order disclosure of any specific information but to order the ministry to reconsider its decision so that it went through that weighing process of the competing obligations that it must consider.Harete Hipango: Does he acknowledge that the Māori vaccination rates would not be 21 percent below the general population if the data had been shared with Whānau Ora nine months ago when earlier requested?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Associate Minister we know that the vaccination campaign when it comes to Māori vaccination has worked very hard and struggled in many quarters to lift those vaccination rates. There are a lot of reasons for that—perfectly justifiable reasons—and we always anticipated that it would take extra special effort involving a whole range of parties but most importantly kaupapa Māori health providers iwi and others connected to Māori communities so that we could get those vaccination levels up. That is happening. It will be assisted by the release of more data and I am confident both the ministry and the various other parties that it's engaging with will reach that end."