11. Question No. 11—EmploymentDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of EmploymentQuestion No. 11—Employment11. Dr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of Employment: What measures are used to assess the performance and progress of his employment programmes?Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment): Kia ora Mr Speaker. Employment programmes such as Mana in Mahi and He Poutama Rangatahi have reporting monitoring and evaluation processes built into them that measure things like in the case of Mana in Mahi employment and training outcomes and in the case of He Poutama Rangatahi the number of rangatahi engaged and the proportion of participants that go on to education employment or training pathways. I receive regular reports updating me on progress and the clear indication these programmes work is in the decade-low unemployment rates we've achieved over the past two years. However I want to make it clear to the House that for many people in our vulnerable communities it's not just about reports or data; it's about opportunities and transforming lives and communities. I mean we're working with people right at the edge who have disengaged from secondary school—for example 30 percent of those enrolled in He Poutama Rangatahi have no qualification and 37.9 percent have been expelled or stood down from school. They have barriers to finding and keeping work—for example 38.9 percent have no driver's licence. They have disabilities. They've come from long-term generational welfare dependencies. We're talking about kids whose fathers—SPEAKER: Order! I am going to interrupt the member. He will have the opportunity for a Budget speech at some stage in the future. Is there a supplementary?Dr Shane Reti: When he said yesterday that the cost-benefit ratio for He Poutama Rangatahi was $2.60 how were the benefits calculated and did they take into account a standard discount rate?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Everything that's calculated is worked out through Treasury. We get our numbers back. They do a total assessment of it. It's pretty easy. We've all been around a while. That's how they work things out.Dr Shane Reti: Does he agree that benefits to Māori in his programmes need to be a focus and will he lobby for an increase in the discount rate?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Sorry I don't quite understand your question.Dr Shane Reti: Does he agree that benefits to Māori in his programmes need to be a focus and will he lobby for an increase in the discount rate?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: The majority of people on these programmes are Māori and that member should know that; he comes from a community that has been hugely disadvantaged. And I will advocate for Māori or groups who have missed out at every opportunity that I am able to. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Order!Rt Hon Winston Peters: In his programmes will someone get a fair chance for promotion and not be overlooked regardless of race?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Absolutely. When we talk about race it's about how these groups have been affected. We help everyone.SPEAKER: Marja Lubeck.Dr Shane Reti: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can I confirm that the Minister answered my question to point two—SPEAKER: Order! Order! Marja Lubeck.Hon Members: He took a point of order.SPEAKER: Well the member's asking about a point of order for a supplementary two back. The member can't do that. The member knows that. He takes it immediately or not at all.Hon Tim Macindoe: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Dr Shane Reti was jumping up. You looked immediately at the Rt Hon Winston Peters and allowed him to ask a question. You didn't give Dr Reti the chance to raise his point of order.SPEAKER: Well I know Dr Reti is not the loudest member in the Chamber but he did have an open mike.Hon Tim Macindoe: He was on his feet.SPEAKER: Being on your feet is not good enough. One has to call Mr Macindoe and after all these years you should know that. The member will not argue from his seat.Marja Lubeck: Fa'afetai Lau Afioga i le Fofoga Fetalai. How does he measure the progress that has been made in the employment programme He Poutama Rangatahi?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Our community-led programme He Poutama Rangatahi works with our rangatahi who aren't engaged in employment education or training. Now we measure the progress that has been made with these programmes around the country in a number of ways. I've received reports from officials that show 3472 young people have been engaged through He Poutama Rangatahi and 1625 of them have already been connected to further training or employment. As our programme is community led they're committed to working with our young people long term to get positive outcomes and we're funding community-driven projects in Tai Rāwhiti Bay of Plenty Hawke's Bay Tai Tokerau—regions with high numbers of disengaged young people and disadvantaged labour markets. Now it's not just about the numbers; we measure progress of these young people by how their lives have changed and we've seen real change with these young people.Dr Shane Reti: Is he the Minister responsible for the performance and progress of Māori and Pasifika trades training given he said on Tuesday that it was his only new programme that he had taken to Cabinet during lockdown level 4?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Yes I am responsible for Māori trade training and Pasifika trade training. That member should know we don't need a lot of new programmes. We need to support workers—we've done that: 1.6 million workers have been supported. I've supported our Minister of Finance along the way with that. Wage subsidies have benefited New Zealand hugely. We've already got the programmes in place. We had record unemployment. We've had record Māori unemployment. We've had record Pasifika unemployment. We've got the underutilisation rates up. We've got the disability sector up. We don't need anything fancy and new. We already had something entrenched and then something like COVID-19 came along.Dr Shane Reti: How has the Mana in Mahi success rate gone from 84 percent at the Epidemic Response Committee a few weeks ago to 81 percent yesterday or were both figures a guess?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I think I've been very clear. I'm not sure where the member got 84 percent but 81 percent—we've got an 81 percent success rate in terms of Mana in Mahi. This is such an exciting and successful programme. That member should feel very proud of it. At the moment he's embarrassing his relations in Whangārei. He should be standing up for Mana in Mahi rather than his useless no-achievement leader at this stage.Marja Lubeck: Fa'afetai. What measures does the Minister of Employment look for in the progress of Mana in Mahi?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Thank you for that. Every month I receive traditional reports from our officials on the progress of Mana in Mahi which is of great interest to the Opposition who have no respect for a programme that is changing the lives of New Zealanders. They show so far: 729 people have started the Mana in Mahi programme 54 percent of these are Māori or Pasifika 35 percent of them have been on benefit for more than one year and 10 percent for more than four years and 81 percent of people who start Mana in Mahi do not return to a benefit. There are a wide range of industries that Mana in Mahi supports from agriculture construction retail forestry to manufacturing—SPEAKER: OK OK. That's enough.Dr Shane Reti: Is he denying that he told the Epidemic Response Committee the Mana in Mahi success rate was 84 percent?Hon WILLIE JACKSON: 84 81—it should have been 81. I mean if that's what you're hanging your hat on. Why don't you stand up for your people in Whangārei and stand up for the Māori members in National? You're a disgrace Shane.SPEAKER: Order! Order! That final comment—well quite a lot of it was possibly out of order but the final comment certainly was. The member will stand withdraw and apologise.Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I withdraw and apologise Mr Speaker.