Macindoe TimHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): Thank you Madam Speaker. Well that was a disappointing and deeply unimpressive contribution from the Hon Tracey Martin and I often enjoy following the Hon Tracey Martin. I'd like to think we get on quite well but I need to tell the House three reasons why that was such an unimpressive speech. The first is that she began with what I thought was really a sort of school girlish tactic of saying Well the Opposition are going to interject regularly throughout my speech and you need to know it'll be this person and that person." Let me just remind Mrs Martin that when I spoke during the first reading she more than any other person on the other side of the House interjected constantly while I spoke and lots of them interjected but it was Mrs Martin more than any other whose voice rose above all the rest interjecting. So that was number one and she was almost goading people in this House to interject. Well this is a very spirited debate and so naturally there are interjections from both sides. That's appropriate in a debate. It means that people are animated they're engaged and they're focused on the issues and a good speaker ought to be able to cope with the interjection and not just say "Well this is nasty. Aren't they a horrible group of people?" The second reason I think it was a particularly unimpressive speech was that Mrs Martin failed to deal with the issues at hand and in particular failed to explain why her party is willing to support urgency on this measure which as she has just noted is being supported by all parties except the sole member from the ACT Party. So it isn't the issues that underpin the debate that are at stake; it's the abuse of process. Her party is condoning the abuse of process when it isn't necessary and she completely failed to explain to the House why she and her party are willing to do that. Perhaps the third and most significant reason was her failure to take up the challenge to explain the murky dealings of the New Zealand First Foundation. That is deeply relevant to this debate. I ask Mrs Martin: is it true that in recent weeks her party president and her party treasurer have both resigned? Hon Tracey Martin: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Sorry Madam Speaker. I'm trying to create the relevance between Mr Macindoe's comments or questions at this moment with the topic of the debate which is about foreign donations and anonymous advertising in election campaigns. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): I'm sure he's just getting to that very point now. Hon TIM MACINDOE: Absolutely Madam Speaker. I was making that point if the member hadn't interrupted me. We have at this stage a very unclear and frankly deeply unsatisfactory picture emerging about the funding of the New Zealand First Foundation and the point I'm making is that both their party president and the party treasurer have resigned because of their refusal—Hon Tracey Martin: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Hon TIM MACINDOE: Oh she doesn't like this does she? She doesn't like this. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): The member has been in the House long enough to know that that is not an appropriate comment to make. Hon Tracey Martin: I'm wondering whether the member could actually draw any correlation between what is in the bill itself and the contribution that he is making at any stage apart from supposition. Hon Dr Nick Smith: Speaking to the point of order. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): I don't need any assistance thank you. The general tradition in the House has been that when a bill is not being referred to a select committee a little more leeway is given on the scope of the speech but after 2½ minutes I think it would be appropriate for the Hon Tim Macindoe to speak directly to the bill. Hon TIM MACINDOE: I believe I have been speaking to the bill for the whole time. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): Well you may not—Hon TIM MACINDOE: —and in particular I am rebutting—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): Well you may reflect on direct challenges to what I've just asked the member to do. The member knows that is not appropriate. I would really encourage him to speak directly to the bill. Hon TIM MACINDOE: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Is it your ruling that I am not allowed to rebut the points made by the previous speaker? ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): No that's not what I said at all. I invited the member for the second time to speak to the bill. Hon TIM MACINDOE: I am referring to points that were made by the previous speaker on this debate. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): And after 2½ minutes the member could refer now directly to the bill. Hon TIM MACINDOE: Madam Speaker everything I'm saying relates to this particular bill under discussion and I think it is very valid for all members of this House to ask the New Zealand First Party to explain the funding behind the New Zealand First Foundation when we consider a bill on electoral donations. I fail to see why any member of the Parliament would not see the direct relevance between those two particular points and it was disappointing in the extreme that Mrs Martin failed to explain that. I've asked her to explain why her party president and her treasurer have resigned rather than sign off their party's accounts. If that isn't a serious matter that we can discuss in this House under freedom of speech then we are having our rights as members of Parliament curtailed in a way that I think is an outrage. The Hon Dr Nick Smith in his contribution repeatedly asked the question of members of the Government parties why this measure is being debated under urgency. We've got one day to ram this bill through despite the fact that it enjoys the support of all members of the House except the ACT Party and I have to say that while I often listen to David Seymour with particular interest I'm still trying to figure out exactly what reason his party has for opposing the bill as well. We are still awaiting the answer and it's important because there is a very longstanding principle—and other members have drawn attention to this—underpinned by the most significant constitutional practice that electoral measures are or at least should be debated fully put out for public consultation subjected to a wide range of submissions and ideally passed unanimously as they often are. Well as my very fine colleague the member for Helensville noted when he began his contribution a short time ago we're in the unusual position now of having commenced a second reading where we can't refer to the submissions because there weren't any. There was no time allowed for it. We only did the first reading before and immediately after the dinner adjournment. Officials have not had a chance to advise the committee on this particular bill that the Minister has put forward today. The Minister didn't have the courtesy to alert the Opposition to the fact that he was going to do that. We only heard it during our caucus meeting this morning. So this is a constitutional outrage on a measure of very significant importance and it is particularly disappointing when we agree with the principles that underpin the bill that this abuse of process is frankly making a debate so contentious when really it could've been done by consensus probably quite quickly if only the Government had observed—Hon Clare Curran: What a joke. Hon TIM MACINDOE: —the constitutional principles. Sorry Ms Curran? Hon Clare Curran: Tell the truth Tim Macindoe. Hon TIM MACINDOE: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): You're interrupting your own speech with a point of order? Hon TIM MACINDOE: I am. No Madam Speaker I'm not interrupting my speech. Ms Curran has just interrupted my speech with an unparliamentary interjection and I'm asking you if that's satisfactory. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): The member can sit down. I didn't hear the interjection. The Hon Clare Curran will stand withdraw and apologise if she made an unparliamentary remark. Hon Clare Curran: Point of order Madam Speaker. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): No we're on a point of order. I've asked you to withdraw and apologise if you made an unparliamentary—Hon Clare Curran: "Tell the truth" was the comment. Is that an unparliamentary comment? ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): The member will withdraw and apologise. Hon Clare Curran: I withdraw and apologise. Hon TIM MACINDOE: Thank you Madam Speaker. Intriguing that Ms Curran would make the comment—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): The member will not refer to a point of order that's been dealt with. He may resume his speech and speak to the bill. Hon TIM MACINDOE: Well the absurd thing about this process is that all parties apart from ACT are in support of it and yet we have not yet had one member opposite explain the need for urgency. Frankly the explanation for that is proving more elusive than the Scarlet Pimpernel. Perhaps it's the scandal of the still murky but emerging shady details of the New Zealand First Party Foundation that underpins the reason for the Government parties wanting to get this through quickly. I hoped that Tracey Martin would explain it; instead she chose to avoid that. She chose not to distance herself from that indefensible entity. She chose to abuse Dr Smith instead and avoid the issue. Well that frankly is very unimpressive and I'm sure the members of the public who are listening will see that for what it is. What we are doing tonight is passing a measure that I'm sure enjoys widespread support in the public as well. So as I say I don't think it would've needed to have taken a long time but it should've been done properly and that's why we're having this debate—because we've got a Government that claimed when they were in Opposition to want to hear what the public had to say and to be the champions of parliamentary democracy and all the rest of it and then the minute they get into Government they turn all of that on their head aided and abetted by the Green Party which I find inexplicable because they were most pious of all in Opposition. Now all three of those parties in Government are behaving disgracefully. As I say it's a bill that enjoys near-unanimous support but the Minister's reason for pushing this through under urgency is utterly disingenuous. Frankly it's blatantly dishonest in the extreme. Hon Stuart Nash: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. That member called Clare Curran out for calling on him—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): The member won't refer to a point of order that's been dealt with. Hon Stuart Nash: I find calling a Minister of the Crown dishonest offensive and I would like the member to stand up and apologise. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): The Hon Tim Macindoe—you've got one minute and 50 seconds remaining. Hon TIM MACINDOE: Thank you Madam Speaker. The point I'm making is that the Minister claimed that he was justifying this on the grounds that the select committee had or hadn't been doing this that or the other and the point I was making is the Minister in all the roughly six months I've been a member of the Justice Committee has never attended a meeting of the Justice Committee. So he does not know and his claims are completely false because how could he know what's been going on in the select committee? He had the gall to blame the National Party—Michael Wood: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The assertion that the claim by the Minister was false is very clearly a breach of the Standing Orders. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): The member Tim Macindoe will stand withdraw and apologise and then finish his speech. Hon TIM MACINDOE: I'm sorry Madam Speaker what am I withdrawing and apologising for? ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): I trust that the member is able to recall the last sentence that he spoke in the House. Michael Wood actually repeated it. I'd ask the member to withdraw and apologise and then conclude his speech. Hon TIM MACINDOE: Well I'll withdraw and apologise. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): Thank you. You've got one minute and 17 seconds to go. Hon TIM MACINDOE: The Minister has never attended the select committee in all the time that I've been a member of it. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): You've got one minute and 14 seconds to go. Hon TIM MACINDOE: That's a statement of fact and he is blaming the National Party for the fact that the Justice Committee has still not reported to the House on its 2017 general election inquiry when the very clear reason for that rests with the Government who failed to initiate the inquiry for the best part of a year after they took office. That's why no terms of reference were consulted by caucuses. That's why no submissions were invited. That's why none of those matters that are important—Michael Wood: Those members blocked it last week—one week ago they voted against it and blocked it. Hon TIM MACINDOE: —began to be looked into and for the Government senior whip to be finding a disingenuous reason to interject in the third point of order in quick succession when all of what I have said is absolutely true and factual—Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I apologise to my colleague Tim Macindoe. Is it appropriate for the Government whip Michael Wood to be making reference to private proceedings of the Justice Committee? ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): I'm sorry I didn't hear his comment. The Hon Tim Macindoe's got 20 seconds remaining. [Interruption] Hon TIM MACINDOE: Well—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Ruth Dyson): 19. Hon TIM MACINDOE: It's kind of you to count the seconds down. I don't think I've ever known there to be so many points of order during a speech. I hope that those who are listening can see what has been happening for what it is—and that is a Government that doesn't like hearing the truth hearing the facts. I have been giving them quite clearly and nothing's changed."