Foster-Bell PaulPAUL FOSTER-BELL (National): E Te Mana Whakawā Tuarua tēnā koe. Tēnā koutou katoa e ngā mema. I stand in opposition to this bill but I want to congratulate the member whom I have a great deal of respect for Peeni Henare—Carmel Sepuloni: Congratulate him on his luck.PAUL FOSTER-BELL: —on having the bill drawn but also on having very noble intentions in bringing this measure to the House. I absolutely agree and concur with the intention of that respected colleague across the Chamber. We agree on this side that slavery is absolutely abhorrent and that goods produced under slave conditions are morally unacceptable. However we have before the House—and this is where I differ with Professor Tabuteau" who is currently leading the Chamber—I differ with him in that—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard): The member will withdraw.PAUL FOSTER-BELL: I differ with the member who just resumed his seat—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Trevor Mallard): The member will now sit and then he will stand and now he will withdraw and apologise to the member.PAUL FOSTER-BELL: I withdraw and apologise to the member. I differ entirely with the member who spoke previously in that I think that a bill that has unenforceable measures should not be passed by this House tonight. Given this is a member's bill it is not beholden on Government members on this side to find a way to make the unworkable workable; it actually behoves the member who has introduced it to introduce legislation that is practical and enforceable. This is a Government that does take slavery very very seriously. I refer the House to the case of the Oyang 70 a Korean fishing vessel that tragically sank offshore in 2010 with the loss of six lives of Indonesian crew members. Those crewmembers were kept in conditions that were very comparable to that of slavery. They were working under very harsh conditions they were subject to beatings they had their passports taken off them they were mistreated and they were not properly remunerated for the work that they did. Everything about their conditions that they were kept in was equivalent to slavery. So I am proud of the fact that this Government has taken action in a practical and pragmatic way on that particular issue and as of April this year fishing vessels that operate in New Zealand waters have to be flagged as New Zealand vessels and therefore New Zealand labour laws and human rights provisions apply. I think in its intention this bill is good but we have heard some of the practical difficulties of enforcement. I would like to refer to another commodity. We have heard about sugar which is something that our former trade Minister Hon Tim Groser used last time this bill was introduced—or the last time a bill of this nature was introduced to the House in 2009. There is another commodity—a precious commodity in the world—cocoa which is produced under a wide range of conditions. We have the very excellent Wellington Chocolate Factory based here in the central business district of Wellington which produces a highly ethical product. It carefully checks that its cocoa is not only organic and it is not only fair trade but it is also ethically produced by staff who are properly paid for the work that they do. It also ensures its sugar is fully organic and when it imports it into the country it audits that all the way back. It even goes so far as to use a wind-powered sailing vessel to make sure that its product is completely ethical. The problem is that very fine product costs $15 a block for a quantity half the size of the Whittaker's competitors from further up the country. So what I am saying is that it is not physically possible to perform a scientific test on a product like cocoa—or sugar or any number of other commodities—that proves how it was made and whether those conditions it was produced in were ethical. Customs would not be able to enforce this at the border. It would not be able to provide a test and if you want to have a very good ethical product that can be sold as an export overseas and is a high quality product—which I enjoy myself—unfortunately what that means is an audit trail going back that would end up incurring significantly increased costs on ordinary New Zealanders perhaps those who can least afford to pay them. I urge caution with regard to that. I think a better approach to take on this would be a diplomatic negotiations approach. We are represented in the International Labour Organization and we are represented at the World Trade Organization. We do have the moral high ground in this country. We can encourage and in fact put conditions into the agreements that we negotiate that enforce others to adopt humane labour legislation. I commend Peeni Henare for his intentions in this but unlike Mr Tirikatene I do not think that this is the new Amazing Grace—we have not seen a second coming of William Wilberforce. It is a well-intentioned measure but it is highly flawed and I recommend that it should not pass."