Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:642;Page:11860] 
7.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Minister of Energy 
: How does he reconcile his statement to the House last Wednesday “We have not grown our coal-fired power” with the official Government figures showing an increase from 1533 GWh in 2000 or 4 percent of New Zealand’s power to 5119 GWh in 2006 or 12 percent of New Zealand’s power and with the Government’s goal of carbon neutrality? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development)  
on behalf of the 
 Minister of Energy 
: I will answer on behalf of the Minister of Energy and the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues who is currently opening yet another wind farm. No new coal-fired generation has been built in the term of this Labour-led Government. The rise in generation is because of cheap Maui gas running out and the Huntly power station switching from using primarily gas to using primarily coal. But I am pleased to inform the House that last year less coal was burnt for generation than in the year prior to that. This trend will continue because of the recent commissioning of Huntly E3P Power Station and substantial renewable investments by both State-owned enterprises and Contact Energy. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How can the expanded use of coal under this Government—seven times that of new wind energy—be consistent with the Government’s goal of carbon neutrality when coal is the dirtiest form of energy and the single-largest global source of greenhouse gases? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Some people can tell the difference between capacity and generation. If people had been brighter in the past and we had all understood the importance of climate change 20 30 or 40 years ago— 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Even 10 years ago. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: —or even 10 years ago then we would not be in this situation. I am not prepared to do what that member suggests which is to shut down the power station and have Kiwis go cold at night. That is what that member wants. 
Dave Hereora 
: Has the Minister received any reports on the future of thermal generation? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: As it happens I have. I have also seen a report that Nicky Wagner supports carbon neutrality. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Not true. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I have seen a report that Nicky Wagner supports carbon neutrality. I have seen reports that Nick Smith wants to get out of the Kyoto Protocol at the first opportunity. I have seen reports that John Key wants to stay in Kyoto but I have seen a report that states that John Key thinks it is all a hoax. I have seen a report that the National Party’s spokesperson on energy is bullish on the future role of fossil fuels and all I can say is that the National Party at some time is going to have to say what its policy is rather than going around emitting a whole pile of methane. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: If Governments during the 1990s had taken the repeated advice of many energy analysts who urged them to renegotiate the Maui gas agreements to allow a slower depletion rate and a longer lifetime for the field through more efficient use of the gas would we be burning as much coal at Huntly as we currently are? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: That is a really interesting question and I think the answer is probably not. But there are some other factors involved such as whether Methanex would have kept going for longer under that sort of arrangement if the gas was available for longer and on the balance of the different sorts of fossil fuels it is very hard to say what would have happened. But certainly the National Party has to take a lot of responsibility for the fact that we are running out of gas. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Seeing that the Minister has challenged National about its ideas on climate change I seek leave to table our paper  
A Bluegreen Vision for New Zealand 
. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How does the Government’s decision to spend $3.4 million on a brand new 8 megawatt coal burner at the Waiouru Military Camp that over its 30-year life will emit one million tonnes of carbon dioxide sit with the Government’s policy of a carbon neutral Public Service? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I know that that member prefers cold soldiers. We prefer them to have reliable energy and that means of course that we will have to make other savings within the Public Service. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Is the Minister aware that the army’s new coal-fired boiler will emit 100 times as much carbon dioxide as the Ministry for the Environment will save by going carbon neutral and does that not show the shallowness of the Government having a handful of paper-pushing departments going carbon neutral while the real sources of carbon are ignored? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Not only the Public Service but the State sector is going in that direction. It will take time and it will— 
Hon Bill English 
: What’s the difference? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Well I know the difference even if the member does not. After having been a Minister for 6 or 9 years Bill English is showing his ignorance again. It is a challenge and this Government is up to it but the Opposition does not care. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How can the Minister say that the Government is heading in the right direction when that one new coal burner which started to operate this week will emit more carbon each year than all the Government departments that are proposed to be carbon neutral by 2012 will save—in fact it will be 60 times the amount of emissions saved by the idea of the Government’s VIP fleet going to more efficient cars—and is it not true that the Government is trying to catch mice while forgetting about the elephants of climate change? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: We can see mice and we can see a rat as well. This just shows to Parliament the fact that as a country we have an enormous challenge. It takes time to implement policies like this and I for one am not prepared to go to Waiouru and tell the soldiers that we do not care whether they freeze. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to table the documents in respect of the new boiler at Waiouru where there were alternatives of both wood-generated— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I seek leave to table the Petroleum Exploration and Production Association of New Zealand weekly report of 10 August 2007 where it states that Gerry Brownlee was quite bullish about the role for fossil fuels— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.