5. Question No. 5—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 5—Social Development and Employment5. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with Fairer Future that incomes of some beneficiaries are up to $300 behind the actual cost of living for families and that further increases are needed so that the 1 April changes do not lock whānau into poverty?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Every individual and whānau is different with different costs locations and incomes. While this Government has lifted incomes substantially and lifted 66500 children out of poverty we know there are still children living in poverty and there are families doing it tough. The benefit increases that come into full effect tomorrow are forecast to lift an additional 33000 children out of poverty on the after-housing cost measure for the 2022-23 year. We cannot lift people out of poverty by just lifting incomes which is why the Government is taking a broad approach. Alongside lifting incomes we've put more free lunches in schools provided more free doctors visits started an ambitious social housing build cut school fees and begun health and disability reforms. The half-price public transport fares coming into force tomorrow will also make a big difference. We've always said there is more to do. Our review of Working for Families and childcare assistance will be another step on this journey.Ricardo Menéndez March: When the Minister says there is more work to do" how long will families have to wait to be able to meet their cost of living with their baseline benefit alone and free their tamariki from poverty?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We've been very clear from the time that we've taken office that families shouldn't have to wait. That's why when we first got in in that first hundred days we invested $5.5 billion into the families package. That's why following that we made other changes including the repeal of two sanctions that now will see more money in the pockets of particularly women. We've lifted benefits. We've lifted abatement thresholds. We've increased Working for Families. There's a range of things that we have done but there certainly is more to do.Ricardo Menéndez March: Can she guarantee that all families receiving a core benefit will be at least $55 better off after the 1 April benefit increases and if not how much on average will families actually get?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The modelling that we got at the beginning when we announced the benefit increases in the Budget last year was that families overall with regards to the benefit increases would be better off by between $32 and $55 per week.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she stand by her statement in February 2020 that "This is also the first of four years that income abatement thresholds will be increased in line with movement in the minimum wage" and if so why isn't she adjusting abatement rates this year to reflect increases to the minimum wage?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: There is a review of Working for Families that we are undertaking and also I do think something that does need to be considered is the indexing of abatement thresholds to minimum wage. It's something that we haven't got to yet.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she acknowledge that when benefits are increased without subsequent adjustments to abatement levels families who are likely to experience claw-back which may result in an overall net decrease in assistance are not receiving the full amount of the benefit promised?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: It's very fair to say that the welfare system is incredibly complicated. That's why there are other reviews that need to be undertaken including a review of the accommodation supplement childcare assistance and as I said Working for Families. Those interactions are very complicated and result in different outcomes for different families. We're certainly committed to looking at those interactions. That work has started but there's more to do.Ricardo Menéndez March: Has she started the work to fix the abatement rate thresholds so that people can receive the full benefit increases and if so when does she expect to finish that work?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Just to be clear the abatement thresholds that the member is talking about is the amount that you can work before you start to lose benefit. We haven't indexed them yet. That is work that needs to be considered down the track. We certainly haven't started that."