Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:673;Page:19370] 
4. 
METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his reported statement of 30 May “Are we deeply unequal? I’m not sure that’s right. I haven’t had a really good look …”? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister) 
 on behalf of the  
Prime Minister 
: The statement as reported is not a correct reflection of what the Prime Minister said. He stands by the full statement that he made. 
Metiria Turei 
: Is the Prime Minister aware that Treasury officials have had a really good look at inequality and their recent report on living standards in New Zealand said that New Zealand is the seventh most unequal country in the OECD? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: I am quite certain that Treasury has had a close look at inequality because in the analysis we have done—for instance on the tax package and on the recent changes in the 2011 Budget—we have ensured that the impact on the general sense of fairness is taken into consideration in respect of our income support system. I think it leads us all to reflect on the fact that when we had 10 years of plenty and large increases in Government transfers it did not appear to have much impact on the extent of inequality in New Zealand incomes between 2000 and 2010. 
Metiria Turei 
: Would it also help to answer his question “Are we deeply unequal?” to know that according to Treasury the top 10 percent of households in New Zealand own 500 times more than the bottom 10 percent? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: As the member will know there is a whole range of measures of inequality ranging from the raw mark of incomes and how unequal they are. That then changes when we take into account Government transfers which a lot of international measures do not. New Zealand has quite significant Government transfers between high-income and low-income New Zealanders. Then there are inequalities in the holdings of wealth and the holdings of assets and in that respect New Zealand reflects the reality of most developed economies which is that when for instance an individual farmer owns an asset worth $10 million he is in a much stronger wealth position than someone who is on the minimum wage and owns nothing. 
Metiria Turei 
: Is the Prime Minister aware that his own Chief Science Advisor Sir Peter Gluckman has also had a really good look at the impact of inequality on children and found a number of links between inequality and poor child health and development problems? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The chief scientist has had a look at those issues and so has the Government. In respect of an issue such as child health I think the Government can claim two measures that are having a significant impact and which I think most people support. One measure is higher immunisation rates which are now the highest they have been in a generation which is good. The second measure is the roll-out of the insulation programme which has now reached 100000 households and that is biased towards lower income New Zealanders. It is often said that there are significant health benefits from it and we will get to see just how significant they are. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Prime Minister now accept the evidence from Treasury and from his own Chief Science Advisor that New Zealand is a deeply unequal country; if he does not accept that advice whose evidence is he relying on in this matter? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: No I do not accept the view that we are a deeply unequal country. I do not think the evidence suggests that and people drawing that conclusion are wrong. Of course the big issue about inequality is what we do about it. That has always been the challenge. The fact is that people who lose jobs or get stuck in welfare dependency find themselves in by far the worst position in a society and this Government is actively moving to break some of those cycles of dependency and poverty. 
Metiria Turei 
: In light of the evidence from Treasury and his own Chief Science Advisor will the Prime Minister commit to rejecting any recommendations from the Welfare Working Group report that will increase and be shown to increase inequality? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: Having had a very good look at the Welfare Working Group report I do not see any recommendations there that will increase inequality. What those recommendations will do is give more people access to the world of work and that is the best way to reduce inequality. The other thing it will do is break the pattern of the previous Government which was to leave hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders marooned on long-term benefits and do absolutely nothing about it.