Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:635;Page:6366] 
6.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Is there any financial waste in the health system; if so where? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Associate Minister of Health) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Health 
: I can confirm that over the past 2 weeks the health system has unexpectedly had to invest considerable resources to make sure children do not die from avoidable deaths after a member of this House intentionally created ill-founded fears about the meningococcal B immunisation campaign. I am not in a position to classify that as waste but I hope Mr Ryall feels that the political pay-off was worth the public resources that had to be spent to set the record straight in order to protect the health of children in this country. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Has the Minister read this week’s Auditor-General report on the health funding package that looks at the extra taxpayer money put into the health system in recent years and what is his reaction to the Auditor-General’s conclusion that it is not possible to say how the billions of extra dollars were ultimately spent? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: The Auditor-General’s report is a very detailed one and I suggest that the member reads it all. If he did he would find that the Ministry of Health had made well-documented decisions on the use of the health funding package. The member needs to keep in mind that district health boards and the Ministry of Health produce annual reports in which the allocation of funding is outlined and where parliamentarians have the ability to check on that. 
Maryan Street 
: Has the Minister received any reports on the comparative cost-effectiveness of the New Zealand health system? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I have seen a report from the widely respected Commonwealth Fund that shows that New Zealand spends less per capita on health than Australia the United States the United Kingdom Canada and Germany. Despite that New Zealand’s health system is ranked second for overall quality amongst those six nations. We have one of the world’s most cost-effective health systems but this Government believes that we can make further progress. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Is the ministry auditing the overall effect of the primary health organisations on the primary-care budget—their cost structures salary scales or methods of accounting for taxpayers’ funds—if not why not? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: Yes a review of the system is under way and I believe that a new system will be in place next year in 2007. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: How can the Minister be satisfied that taxpayers are getting value for the extra money put into health when the Auditor-General’s report says that the Ministry of Health has no records of how district health boards specifically allocated the billions of dollars of extra funding because the ministry says that was the responsibility of the district health boards but when the Auditor-General asked the district health boards what the money was spent on those boards admitted that they too were unable to say where the extra money was spent? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: Although the Auditor-General’s report is detailed it would not be the first time that we do not entirely agree with an Auditor-General’s report. There are clear lines of accountability through both the district health boards and the Ministry of Health directly back to parliamentarians through the select committee process. I welcome that member’s question at the next review process. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Is there any specific section in the Ministry of Health responsible for the reporting and collating of information on primary health organisations’ expenditure costs annual reports and plans; if so what is it called? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: Yes. It is the clinical services directorate. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: How can the Minister and the Government assure the public that it is getting value for money in health when if the Minister does not know where the extra money went he cannot tell us what he got for it? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I feel very confident that we have a very efficient health system. The National Party has yet to develop a policy—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Members will be leaving this Chamber unless they keep interjections at a reasonable level. 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: If we would like to use as a benchmark—as the National Party likes to do—the USA we would note that its health system costs three times that of New Zealand per person yet Americans die at a younger age than New Zealanders. That would indicate that we have a more efficient and more effective system delivering services for New Zealanders. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Has the Associate Minister read the Auditor-General’s report? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I have not read the Auditor-General’s report. I am advised that it is a very detailed report and I understand that Ministry of Health officials will be looking very carefully at its recommendations—even though we may not end up agreeing with each and every one of them. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: How can the Minister expect his answers to be taken seriously when he is replying to questions on a report that he has not even bothered to read though it is fundamental to his portfolio responsibilities; if he had read the report would the Minister not know that the Auditor-General has yet again exposed this Government’s poor stewardship of health dollars whereby the Minister is unable to say where the extra money is specifically going and what he is specifically providing the public in return for that money—and does that not explain why after 6 years of a Labour Government we can have $4 billion extra spent in health with fewer people getting operations? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: That is complete hogwash. More people are getting operations since—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister will please be seated. I cannot hear the Minister’s answer. I will be asking those members whose voices I can hear to leave the Chamber next time. They happen unfortunately to be sitting in the back row and they know whom I am talking to. 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: That is hogwash. More people are getting operations since this Government came into power. We have committed an additional $4 billion to the health system of this country. Each and every New Zealander knows that he or she is getting a better deal and is getting services when he or she needs them for the most part.