Carter John: Building (Late Consent is a Free Consent) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Carter John: Building (Late Consent is a Free Consent) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:640;Page:10734] 
JOHN CARTER (National—Northland) 
: 
 It is with a great deal of pleasure that I get to follow the Minister Clayton Cosgrove. If ever there was a Minister who was right outside of his own ability we have just seen it. He is a guy who has imposed so much cost on to New Zealand on to local government and on to individuals that he is a disgrace. Of course he is part of the Labour Party and just being part of the Labour Party is a disgrace anyway. But let me tell members that this Minister is not just a disgrace but also an absolute failure. In the next few minutes that I have to speak I intend to explain why. The first thing is that when this Government took over in 1999 the Department of Building and Housing—or its equivalent—employed 31½ people. 
Tim Groser 
: 31½? 
JOHN CARTER 
: I think Clayton Cosgrove was probably the half but the department had employed 31½ equivalents. Does anyone want to have a little guess at how many people are employed there today? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: 50? 
JOHN CARTER 
: No not 50. Give me a bit more. 
Chris Auchinvole 
: 80? 
JOHN CARTER 
: No. Would members believe it is over 300? Over 300 people are now employed in the Department of Building and Housing. It is a disgrace. How many percent has it gone up? Who can calculate that? Is it a zillion percent? In Northland terms it is a zillion percent. It is an absolute disgrace. But do members know what the outcome is of 300-plus people writing rules and regulations? It is that we now have departments in the Department of Building and Housing. One department has to write some rules the next department has to check them then the third one has to get them and see whether they are OK and when they are not it has to send them back because it has to be busy. So it goes on and on. But what is even worse—and this is why my colleague Nick Smith has brought this bill to the House and he deserves to be applauded for it—is that we are over-governed and we have more compliance than we absolutely need. The reason is that local government now has to try to match the Department of Building and Housing. The upshot is that the bureaucracy in local government has grown from 30000 in 1999 to over 40000 in 2007. It has gone up 25-plus percent. The building inspectorate of the Department of Building and Housing—and the Government knows this—has grown like crazy in the number of people it has to employ. The reason for that is the volumes of paper. With the volumes of paper the books and all the things those people have to understand they cannot keep up. 
Let me tell my colleagues what is even worse because it is another thing we need to understand. Do they know where the 300 people who are now employed in the Department of Building and Housing came from? They came from local government of course. So why can local government not get staff to deal with what the Department of Building and Housing has put out? It is because they are all employed in the Department of Building and Housing. So local government is left without staff who are capable of responding to issues and administering the rules that their previous colleagues are writing. 
Clayton Cosgrove is saying that we have got to get on top on this we have to get the compliance down and we have to make it easier. Let me tell members the next thing. When ordinary John Citizen goes into the council and says: “I would like to fill out a building permit please. Could you let me have the pieces of paper.” he comes out with a wheelbarrow full of reams and reams of paper. So John Citizen has a look around and says: “I don’t think I can do this.”; and the council says: “No we would advise you to go and get a lawyer. Go and get someone who is capable of filling out the building permit because you won’t be able to.” That is what Nick Smith is telling us. He is telling us that the compliance costs are just so hideous that he has brought in this bill. 
Clayton Cosgrove is responsible. He is the one who has seen this grow exponentially. He does not care about compliance costs. The Labour Government does not care. Let me tell members what I think is the best thing Clayton Cosgrove could do. The one thing we can say about Clayton Cosgrove as far as I know is that he is not a liar. As far as I know he does not lie. He would be better to take over David Benson-Pope’s place as the Minister for Social Development and Employment. 
But let us move on from there because there are several other things that are a real worry and it is why my colleague Nick Smith has brought in this bill. Nick Smith knows that we have a leaky home problem in this country and what he is worried about—and what we are worried about—is the fact that under Mr Cosgrove’s regime more leaky homes are being built. We have this department that employs 300 people who are meant to be making sure there are no more leaky homes. Members will be interested to know that right now the materials in current homes that are being built are faulty. Mr Cosgrove has a department that is meant to make sure that materials are certified. Over 600 sorts of materials go into houses. So far the Department of Building and Housing has managed to certify four. With a staff of 300 people it has managed to certify four materials that go into our homes. 
If we get copper pipes from Australia they are certified for 50 years. If we get them from England they are certified for 60 years. But people are importing them from Asia with no certification at all. Those pipes are being put into New Zealand homes. They have been tested and they might last 7 years at best. Right now they are being put into our New Zealand homes. They might last 7 years—it is a lottery. What will happen is that in 10 years’ time someone will flush the toilet and mum will get a shower in the kitchen. That will be the upshot and this Minister is responsible for this. That is why my good colleague Nick Smith has brought in this bill—to try to bring some focus on what is happening in the building industry in this country. 
That brings me on to my next point and it is why my good friend and colleague Nick Smith has brought in this bill. The worry in the building industry is that it will become so difficult to comply with the regulations that the Department of Building and Housing Clayton Cosgrove and the Labour Government have brought down that a number of people are thinking of exiting the industry. 
 They are seriously thinking of exiting the industry. It has got to the stage where they cannot make a living out of it. They are seriously worried about the fact that the compliance costs are so difficult they cannot get by. 
Let me finish on one other point and it is a serious one. It is this issue of certification that the Minister talked about at the end of his speech. He talked about the fact that we do not need Nick Smith’s bill because all the councils will soon be able to be certified and all the building inspectors will know what they are doing and therefore it will all be OK. The fact—and it is one of the reasons why my colleague brought in this bill—is that the Minister himself admitted that there are a number of councils that will not comply and be certified to be able to issue permits. 
Hon Members 
: How many? 
JOHN CARTER 
: There are at least a dozen. But there is more. We will have areas in New Zealand where people will apply to the council for a building permit and the council will say: “Sorry we aren’t able to issue a permit because we’re not certified. We haven’t got the qualifications.” The cost that is imposed on councils by Mr Cosgrove and his Department of Building and Housing is all part of this. It is estimated that the cost to ratepayers in this country to try to comply with what Mr Cosgrove is asking councils to do will be in excess of $8 million. In fact some councils are saying that it will be as much as $250000 a council and a number of them will not be able to pay it. 
Mr Cosgrove stands up and tries to denigrate my colleague Nick Smith for bringing in a bill to draw to the attention of Parliament and the country an issue that seriously is a problem. Local government admits it is the building industry admits it is the people of this country know it is—they know there is a problem. It seems the only people who do not know are Mr Cosgrove and the Labour Government. They think it is all OK. They think it is OK to have 300 bureaucrats writing rules and regulations that are causing more problems. Nick Smith does not think it is; neither does the National Party. That is why we support what Nick is trying to do.