Collins Judith: General Debate 
Collins Judith: General Debate 
[Volume:628;Page:624] 
JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) 
: 
 We can see why Mr Goff was so keen to divert attention from the performance of his fellow Minister David Benson-Pope. When Helen Clark was the Leader of the Opposition she made all sorts of statements about political standards and ministerial accountability. She said: “We are calling for higher standards of ministerial accountability and behaviour.” [ 
Interruption 
] Lianne Dalziel is someone who maybe should not be shouting out about this time. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: She’s the last person! 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: She would be the last person to want to call out anything. In March 1997 Helen Clark said in a speech to the Lower Hutt chamber of commerce—[ 
Interruption 
] She did. She went on to say about Ms Dalziel the member who keeps wanting to shout out: “I advised Lianne that in my view a clear line had been crossed between a statement which was misleading and a statement which was untrue.” Most of us in the normal world think “misleading” is pretty untrue and that clearly is a statement and a standard that this Prime Minister is prepared to accept from her Ministers—certainly from David Benson-Pope. 
We have heard today from Mr Goff about editorials or comments written in newspapers many months ago. Well let us have a look at some that were written today. What did the  
Press 
 editorial state about Mr Benson-Pope and his behaviour? It stated: “But to excuse Benson-Pope’s performance is to set the standards of behaviour for Cabinet Ministers at an abysmally low level.” That is what the Christchurch  
Press 
 said today about David Benson-Pope and Helen Clark’s decision to back that man when there are all these other MPs in Labour who could take his place. How about the parochial  
Otago Daily Times 
? This is a newspaper that always backs its local people and it has been backing Mr Benson-Pope all the way. Then yesterday it heard him change his story. No longer was he willing to say that no it did not happen; suddenly he could not remember. Today of course he said it did not happen and he could not remember all in the same breath. 
 This is what today’s  
Otago Daily Times 
 editorial said about Mr Benson-Pope: “It has succeeded in substantially enlarging the sense that Mr Benson-Pope’s judgment is not reliable.”—that is what it said—“When measured by his own attempts this week to misrepresent the police report his appreciation of public opinion verges on the contemptuous. Prime Minister Helen Clark does neither herself nor her unfortunate Cabinet Minister any good in turning a blind eye to the failings he has displayed.” That is what the editorial of his local newspaper said about him. That is what the Dunedin people think about David Benson-Pope. He is unfit for Cabinet and he is bringing down the rest of the Labour Party although after some of the performances we have seen today they do not have to come down very far. That is the man who said in his press release on Sunday that the police report vindicated his stance. 
Let us have a look at what “vindicated” means. One dictionary states that “vindicate” means “to clear someone of guilt or suspicion.” Well did it? No it did not—quite the opposite. Or it could mean “to provide justification for”. Well it did not—quite the opposite. When Mr Benson-Pope said today in the House that he had told his press secretary to tell the truth when he was asked where the leaked document had come from did any of us think that that must be true? I do not think too many of us felt it was. If he really had said that then how come the document was leaked in the first place? Why did he not just put it out with a note saying: “Here it is! Everyone come and get it.”? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: It was an honest leak. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: Well I think Mr Smith is too kind. What about the  
Herald on Sunday 
 statement: “Last night he refused requests for an interview …”? That is what the article stated about Mr Benson-Pope. Mr Benson-Pope had leaked that report—or little excerpts from it—to that same  
Herald on Sunday 
 reporter. On the one hand Mr Benson-Pope is leaking and on the other hand he is saying he is not here to talk about it. That man is dishonest and he needs to go.