9. Question No. 9—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 9—Social Development and Employment9. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she support sanctioning disabled people and people with health conditions who receive jobseeker benefits for failing to prepare for work"?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): I support our current approach to the use of sanctions which is to work with a client to ensure they meet their obligations and adhere to the advice of medical professionals about what obligations a client has. Instead of primarily penalising our sick and disabled people the Government is focused on supporting them into work if they are able and helping them achieve their aspirations by doings things like rolling out our Disability Employment Action Plan and targeted employment support programmes and we are seeing results. In the year to June 2022 17295 job seekers with health conditions or disability exited into work—almost double the number in the year to June 2017. Our approach is working and we stand by it.Ricardo Menéndez March: What is the impact on children in households where a disabled caregiver loses 50 percent of their income because of a benefit sanction for "failing to prepare for work"?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We have seen an 87 percent reduction in the number of sanctions applied to households where there are children. This is a reflection of our approach in the culture change that we initiated with the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) on the front line. I've been very clear in this House that excessive use of sanctions and a punitive approach can have detrimental effects. However there is evidence to suggest that a balanced approach in using them as a last resort can be helpful in some instances.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with Labour MP for Nelson Rachel Boyack who tweeted "Just to be very very clear people who are unwell or have disabilities and aren't able to work or are having difficulty finding work shouldn't be sanctioned!"; if so will she end sanctions towards disabled people on the jobseeker benefit?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I do agree with the member for Nelson Rachel Boyack and she made it very clear: those that aren't able to work. But there are a number of people that may have a health condition or disability who are able to prepare for work who are perhaps able to take up some work like part-time work and it's really important that we have the support in place the programmes in place to be able to support them to meet their aspirations as well.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with the findings of the Welfare Expert Advisory Group report including at page 81 that "We do not support the continued use of the financial sanctioning regime." and if so will she commit to repealing sanctions including for disabled people on the jobseeker benefit?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We were very clear I think in our policy manifesto that we would move to get rid of excessive sanctions. We've done that with removing section 192 in the subsequent child policy. The Welfare Expert Advisory Group also pointed out the importance of mutual obligations obligations on MSD's end to make sure that they treat clients with dignity and they provide them with the supportive environment that they need but there are also obligations on the other end. Sanctions are there to be used as a last resort. I think in terms of the massive reduction that we've seen that clearly that is what is happening.Ricardo Menéndez March: What would she say to Daisy Bell who used to receive jobseeker health and disability who said she was "disappointed to see Labour sanctioning people who are sick like she used to be." and "I'm willing to bet it's a tool that is not being appropriately used … people are being treated unfairly and in a really unkind way."?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I absolutely empathise with what Daisy Bell has said publicly. However we have to keep it in perspective. There are about 70000 people that are on jobseeker health condition and disability; in the last quarter I think 156 received a sanction. It is about clear communication with our clients. It is about ensuring that MSD is looking at the medical advice rather than making determinations of their own that are purely punitive. As I've said they are a last resort. We don't want to use them. There is an opportunity also to re-comply for those clients. I think that we have to remember that also people with health conditions and disabilities often have aspirations to work as well.Ricardo Menéndez March: In what instances does she think it is not punitive or excessive to sanction disabled people for "failing to prepare for work" when the jobseeker payment is the only way for them to put food on the table and keep a roof over their head week to week?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think the point made by the member is that quite often the expectation is preparation for work; it's not necessarily that they must take up employment. The decisions around that are based on the medical advice that comes through. It's really important that we work with our clients to be able to meet their aspirations. They have an opportunity to re-comply. It goes back to what I said earlier; there are mutual obligations in the welfare system. But we certainly don't take a punitive approach to our clients."