Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:624;Page:18954] 
1. RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Did she or any of her Ministers convey the reported concerns that she said she had for some time over Te Wananga o Aotearoa to Dr RongoWetere; if so what was Dr Wetere’s response? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 There have been many communications between the Government and the wananga in recent years with correspondence mainly being directed to the chair of the wananga council. There have also been meetings between education Ministers and Mr Wetere in recent years focusing in particular on the high growth in the wananga’s enrolment numbers and the conflict of interest issue. I am advised that Mr Wetere’s response at the first of the meetings on the roll numbers almost 2 years ago could be described as “forthright” notwithstanding that the Government did move to impose caps on the numbers enrolled later in 2003. 
Rodney Hide 
: Could the Prime Minister tell the House where it all went wrong in that under her administration the funding for the wananga went from $4 million a year to $239 million a year then the Government froze the funding and put in a financial controller presumably to control the wananga? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Equivalent full-time student numbers were uncapped in 1998 and local courses did not require approval by Government agencies. In my view that has been a mistake and it is one of the issues that we are focusing on now. When the considerable blowout in numbers became apparent Ministers began communicating with the wananga and with other organisations where this was an issue. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My particular concern was “where it all went wrong”. It is of some public interest and of interest to members in this House that funding went from $4 million to $239 million. We have just had a nice dissertation on caps. That was not part of my question. My question was where did it go wrong whereby the Government pumped the funding up to $239 million and then suddenly froze the funding and put in its own commissioner. I ask you to ask the Prime Minister to address my specific question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That was not a point of order. The substance of the member’s question was addressed. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Has the Prime Minister been briefed on the report on the financial review of Te Wananga o Aotearoa by the Education and Science Committee tabled in December and does that report contain a minority report by the ACT member on the committee expressing concerns about financial mismanagement at the wananga? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have not been briefed on that report but I think I can infer from the member’s question that no such minority report was tabled. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that since 2002 Government agencies have initiated at least 22 audits investigations or inquiries into issues at Te Wananga o Aotearoa and that despite those failings the Government has never acted to reduce the funding available to the wananga? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am aware there have been a number of formal communications from the Government to the wananga raising a range of concerns and those are being worked through with a varying degree of success I might say. Certainly steps were taken to lower the runaway enrolments. I am sure the Leader of the Opposition benefited from his personal briefing by Mr Wetere at the kapahaka celebrations. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Prime Minister referred to a number of Government requests and reports. Could we please have those tabled? 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: It is quite clear under the Standing Orders that if something is quoted from by a Minister it must be tabled otherwise it does not have to be. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: What difference if any will Brian Roche’s appointment make and in particular will he have the powers to countermand a spending decision made by the wananga council in view of Trevor Mallard’s stated claim that RongoWetere controls the council? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: My understanding is that the Crown manager will have charge of the finances. If the member wants to pursue that further I suggest he pursue it with the Minister of Education. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Does the Prime Minister have complete confidence in the way the previous tertiary education Minister Steve Maharey handled issues with Te Wananga o Aotearoa; if so why did she move him out of that portfolio in December leaving Trevor Mallard to deal with the mess? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Yes I am satisfied that the Minister took steps to address the runaway enrolments. I might say that I have taken a rather conservative approach to reshuffles unlike the constant reshuffling that goes on over there particularly in respect of women members who are not allowed to keep jobs for very long. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Prime Minister’s accusation that constant reshuffles are going on “over there” and pointing at us is utterly untrue. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Is this a point of order? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: My point of order is that the Prime Minister’s answer was not terse to the point and accurate. Perhaps she should particularise what her claim is. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am quite happy to put the member’s mind at rest. My reference to musical chairs was not directed at New Zealand First; it was directed at the National Party. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Does the Prime Minister support the decision made by the Minister of Education to decline my request under the Official Information Act for the Graeme McNally report of 9 February 2005 to the Tertiary Advisory Monitoring Unit; if she does support that decline of the public release of that document then why; and what does her Government have to hide? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I do not spend my life getting briefings from Ministers about what Official Information Act requests they agree to and do not agree to. The member should take that matter up with the Minister of Education. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Prime Minister is making misleading and false statements to this House. As you know we met with Dr RongoWetere yesterday and he was insistent that he did not brief the Leader of the Opposition Dr Don Brash that he did not spend the weekend with Dr Don Brash as has been alleged that he had never met Dr Don Brash before and he went over and said hello to him for 5 minutes at a kapahaka. I think it is an outrage that the Prime Minister— 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Ha ha! 
Rodney Hide 
: She might laugh but these are serious matters. It shows that the Prime Minister is quite prepared to stand up in this House day after day and simply make things up. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is a debatable matter not a point of order. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I seek leave to table a letter dated 4 March from Trevor Mallard to myself declining my request under the Official Information Act for the Graeme McNally report of 9 February to the Tertiary Advisory Monitoring Unit. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.