Sepuloni Carmel: Crimes Amendment Bill Local Government Amendment Bill Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 3) — Third Readings 
Sepuloni Carmel: Crimes Amendment Bill Local Government Amendment Bill Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 3) — Third Readings 
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CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour) 
: 
 I am very happy to rise and speak on the Crimes Amendment Bill the Local Government Amendment Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 3). One thing that has come to light is that across this House I do not think that any party would disagree that some of the most insidious crime in our society is perpetuated by gangs and organised crime. I think that is one thing we can all agree on. There are some things that have been raised by other members across the House that I will address. Something we share is wanting to see the crimes committed by those gangs and by organised crime diminish but I guess our views about how that can happen differ across the House as do our views on whether this legislation will be effective in helping to do that. 
We just heard from Sandra Goudie who addressed something that was said by Maori Party members. She said that the Government is addressing the issues identified by the Maori Party. I think some of the issues that Maori Party members raised concerned the actual causes of crimes and the reasons why people get involved in gangs in the first place. I do not believe that the National Government is addressing that and I think that is very serious. It is something that the Government continues to ignore. It is all about punitive measures; it is all about the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Although we support this legislation we do not support the narrow focus that the National Government continues to take. At the end of the day there will be victims of the crimes that are committed but the perpetrators of the crimes will not be stopped from perpetrating them if the Government does not put something in place at the top of the cliff. That is one of the issues that has been raised and I believe that it is a serious issue which the National Government needs to address. 
Earlier on Mr Garrett basically said that the punitive measures to punish criminals are the most important thing in regard to gaining justice for the victims and that that is the most important issue. But that is not the most important issue. The most important issue is actually making sure that crimes are not committed in the first place so that we do not have those victims. Unfortunately that is something that the ACT Party continues to overlook. 
We also had Mr Ardern earlier asking at the beginning of his speech what the previous Labour Government had done for 9 long years. That member knows that the previous Labour Government had legislation similar to this legislation before the Law and Order Committee when this National Government came to power. Had the National Government genuinely wanted to expedite this measure at a faster pace perhaps even within the period of its 100 days of action all that the Minister of Justice needed to do was to support Labour’s legislation and possibly if the Government had wanted to amend it. But instead of doing that for the sake of political point-scoring the Government canned that altogether and started again so that it could take ownership over all this legislation. At the end of the day Labour is supportive of the legislation. We already had it in a select committee; it was something that we were already addressing. So for Mr Ardern to say that the previous Labour Government did nothing over the 9 years that it was in Government is absolute rubbish actually. 
One thing we have been discussing that has come up across the course of this very robust debate on this legislation is the types of gangs that we are looking at. The gangs that I am very interested in—because I think that we need to differentiate between some of the gangs and the organised crime that is taking place—are the youth gangs out there. The Labour Government was very good at compiling evidence about things that it wanted to put into place before it decided on the legislation it might put through. A report that I recently looked at was commissioned by the Labour Government and put out by the Ministry of Social Development. It looked at youth gangs. It was a research report called  
From Wannabes to Youth Offenders: Youth Gangs in Counties Manukau 
. If we are to understand this issue and put forward legislation that actually works it is important that we have the evidence base to work from. I find it interesting because there has been much debate over whether those gang members are “our people” and the horrendous scenarios and situations that those gang members are putting people through. I find what is happening with our youth gangs interesting. 
Shane Jones mentioned earlier—and this is one of the reasons why I think it is very important that the House supports this legislation—that one of the purposes of the legislation and one of the things it does is prevent the normalisation of gang culture and gang membership. If we are going to deal with some of the issues that have arisen with our youth who have been getting involved with youth gangs then we have to prevent the normalisation of gangs by saying that that is not acceptable. When we look at the report that was put out by the Ministry of Social Development we see that it puts youth gangs into different categories. The wannabes are those who want to be associated with a gang and who are not really committing much crime but it is a kind of identity for them to be part of that gang. The “territorial gangs” are those who protect their patch. Often we call them the ABC gangs. I said earlier that sometimes if they live on for example Smith Drive then they would be called something like the Smith Drive Boys. We call them the ABC gangs. Then there are the ones who are entering into the more serious areas and those are called the “criminal youth gangs”. The issue with the “wannabes” and “territorials” gangs is that most of their members will end up leaving those gangs unscathed without a criminal record and with it being a passing phase in their lives. But we can compare being part of a gang to marijuana being a gateway drug resulting in an avenue to try a harder substance. I think that those gangs are gateway gangs; that is the issue. 
Young people start off in a wannabe gang but some go on to much more criminally minded gangs or perhaps to the criminal youth gangs. The research shows us that there is an affiliation between the youth gangs and some of the more established gangs. The research shows that the Killer Beez who are seen as a criminal youth gang are connected to the Tribesmen; the Black Power Youth are connected to Black Power; the Juvanyle Crip Boys are connected to Black Power; and the Bloods are connected to Black Power the Mongrel Mob and the King Cobras. The issue is as I said before that we need to prevent the normalisation of gang membership and gang culture. This legislation to a large extent does some of that. 
Labour supports the legislation; it is something that we were trying to put through ourselves. But this Government decided that the legislation was more about political point-scoring by taking ownership of the legislation and putting out there that it had nothing to do with Labour and that Labour did nothing for law and order over the previous 9 years. That is the perception that the National Government wants to put out there. It wants to put the perception out there that this side of the House does not care about victims and does not care about law and order. I find that very hard to swallow because it is very difficult for members on this side to listen to members opposite and hear them say that we have no social conscience whatsoever that we do not care about law and order and that we do not care about victims. I say from this side of the House that the one thing we all share across this House is that we care about law and order we care about victims of crime and we all want to do something to make sure that we can lessen the effects of what is happening cut down on crimes being committed and protect ordinary everyday New Zealanders out there from having some of those crimes committed against them. That is largely what I wanted to talk about. 
Labour supports this legislation but I think it is important that it is noted that Labour was doing something in respect of this matter. It was the National Government that decided to point-score instead of doing anything else. I want to acknowledge that one of the main reasons it is important that we support this bill is that it prevents the normalisation of gang culture and gang membership. As Shane Jones said it is important for our rangatahi. We know as Maori and Pacific people that those getting involved in the youth gangs are Maori and Pacific youth. We want to protect them. We want them to realise that this is not the type of activity that they should be involved in. We want to take the power away from the gangs to recruit those young people and that is why we support this bill.