Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:14663] 
3.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Immigration 
: Why did he say with respect to immigration fraud “He [Rt Hon Winston Peters] has raised points many times over the years but provided little evidence.”? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Associate Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 Because it is true. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is it not a fact that the Minister and his colleagues know that this party has given evidence time and time again in this House and outside of it in relation to cases like those of Ekatarina Ross and Mohammed Saidi who lied his way into this country on a false claim of refugee status of English-language scams that ended up on the  
Assignment 
 programme and in relation to a long list of other cases but that the answer has always been when we have sought to follow those cases up to quote from his former colleague “The Privacy Act prevents these cases from being discussed.”; why does he not admit the fact that he 
has been found out and so has his party? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I think that I and the House are very aware of many allegations made by that member. However allegations do not equate to evidence. Every one of those allegations has been followed up but without evidence being provided by the member most of them have been proven to be untrue. 
Dianne Yates 
: What is the Government doing to combat immigration fraud? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: In the 2003-04 Budget over $19 million of extra funding was provided to the Department of Labour’s Immigration Service. That is spread over 4 years for a range of compliance-related activities including increased capability in the areas of intelligence work fraud investigation and removals. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: What is the Minister doing about the culture of fraud as revealed by the “lying in unison” report that exists within the New Zealand Immigration Service itself given 30 investigations involving staff fraud for the year ended 30 June this year and three new investigations last month alone? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I completely refute any claims of a culture of fraud at all. With a service such as the New Zealand Immigration Service it is inevitable that of the many hundreds of thousands of people who apply to come into this country some who are disappointed because they are turned down will make malicious claims against individual staff. Whenever those claims are made they are investigated as being very serious claims. Thankfully most of them are proved to be untrue. 
Larry Baldock 
: Can he confirm that neither he nor the Minister of Immigration has ever received any policy proposals or suggestions from the Rt Hon Winston Peters on the subject of immigration? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My point of order is blatantly obvious. Three election campaigns numerous manifesto statements— 
Hon Bill English 
: That’s not a point of order. proposals or suggestions from the Rt Hon Winston Peters on the subject of immigration? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Hang on; I am getting to it. More important we are now being asked to have the Minister interpret what that means. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member has not raised a point of order. He has raised a political point and he has made his point. The Minister will now answer. 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I have certainly not received any policy ideas from the Rt Hon Winston Peters and I am not sure whether my colleague the Hon Paul Swain has either. I doubt it. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Minister prepared to put his career on the line today and to come to this House with any evidence that we have raised any matter to do with fraud and not sent the substantial evidence to go with it such as for example evidence regarding SaiedGhanbari the very person leaving tomorrow because we found him not the Minister or his ministry? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: I am aware of many many allegations made in this House by that member about immigration matters. That member very rarely provides any evidence to back up those claims. I stand by that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I ask the Minister again whether he will put his career on the line and back up two answers he has given today to the effect that we in New Zealand First have failed to provide him or his colleagues with information to back up questions in this House on fraud; and if it is true that he has been provided with the information will he resign from Parliament for having misled it? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: There are numerous—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Tempting though that may be could we hear the answer from the Minister. [ 
Interruption 
] I know that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. May I have this answer heard in some degree of silence. Mr Prebble yelled out in the first person and that is totally outside the Standing Orders. Unlike him yes I would resign but I will not be fired for it like he was. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The member is quite right. I did call out in the first person; that is completely correct. But I do think this is a very serious matter. Mr Peters is telling this House and the country that if he has not backed up every single allegation that he has made in this House he will resign. As this is his last day in the House I think we should pay our respects to him. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will make only one comment which is that the interjection was made in the second person not the first. 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: As I said before many allegations are made. Sometimes I am aware of letters being passed on to the service putting down those allegations. However that does not mean that there is any evidence whatsoever to back up those allegations. When investigated by the New Zealand Immigration Service they have proved to lack any substantive claim. 
Dianne Yates 
: What has been the outcome of the increased focus on verification? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: There have been very very good outcomes. The increased focus on verification has meant that we have many more fraudulent job offers being exposed. We have many more investor applications being declined and we have the establishment of a new fraud and investigations unit that specialises in that area. We are making huge progress in that area in an international world that sees increasing levels of fraudulent activity. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Minister prepared to apologise to this House and to New Zealand First for the claims that Labour made in the 2002 election that everything we said was either racist or worse and was not true when just yesterday he made it very clear that every claim that was made was true and that that is why there are extra resources—except that we now have thousands of fraudsters here and you have no idea who they are? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am not to be brought into the debate but the Minister can answer for himself. 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: No. 
Larry Baldock 
: I seek leave to table a letter from the Hon Paul Swain that confirms that since taking up the labour and immigration portfolios in February 2004 he has not received any correspondence from any of the aforementioned spokespersons on the issue of policy. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.