Jones Shane: KiwiSaver Bill — In Committee 
Jones Shane: KiwiSaver Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:633;Page:4947] 
SHANE JONES (Labour) 
: 
 Kia ora Madam Chairperson. In contrast to the barrage of ill-informed remarks from our colleagues across the Chamber I wish to say this is brilliant legislation. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Barrage is right. 
SHANE JONES 
: Yes. Mr Copeland did raise with the Finance and Expenditure Committee the issue of whether there should be an improvement to KiwiSaver by way of a mortgage diversion scheme but no one less than Mr Key announced to all of the select committee members that we had run out of time. As Mr Key left the meeting I did see him encourage Gordon to pursue his line and he did give him the dim prospect of helping to fix this bill in the unlikely event he was ever to occupy the Government side of the House. 
Not only is that the case but I also have a very strong suspicion that the people who are attacking the bill this evening would in the event that there was some freak of nature or weird event such as a change of Government well into the future seek to make this measure compulsory. Underlying a lot of the questions of the Opposition members—not as much in the select committee as in the narrative in the Committee tonight—is their intention desire or preference to see KiwiSaver made compulsory. What other conclusion could my esteemed select committee colleague Mr Key have come back with from Singapore? I get a bit disappointed when people dash off to far-flung places and borrow uncritically decisions and ideas. This measure is home-grown which is why it is called KiwiSaver. Like all good policies it is capable of being refined as we move along on our waka which is why although Mr Copeland claims a key role at the end of the day KiwiSaver is reflective of the bonding that holds members on this side of the Chamber together in a very coherent form. 
People up and down the country cannot wait to start their savings scheme because they remember very sourly that when our colleagues opposite last had the opportunity to govern they undermined the matamua of the House Winston Peters. In fact the leader of the National Party at that time campaigned up and down the country saying that following Muldoon we could not have anything approaching a superannuation scheme that had an element of compulsion in it. It took members on the Government side of the Chamber to make progress—and thankfully the members of the select committee saw the value in bringing this measure back and accepted that it was capable of being improved as we proceeded. 
 In relation to whether there is a Crown guarantee of course the decision lies with the individual saver. The notion that an employer will be in a position either to intimidate employees or to falsely lead them shows a very barren approach to what ought to be the ideal relationship between employees and employers. That relationship will only grow as a consequence of both sides joining in the fray and growing the size of the savings pool. In fact when Labour is still in power in 2012 2013 2014 and 2015 we will look back very happily at this evening when we laid down the foundations for the Kiwi putea. 
Unfortunately although we had tit for tat on our committee not a single original idea emerged from the Opposition. We had the Business Roundtable serve up its usual ideological nonsense that there is no savings problem. Then we had the real experts—people who deal on a daily basis with families—say there is a savings problem and a capital deficit problem. 
This bill is a fantastic start and like all journeys it has started with a few faltering steps. But this bill is going places—unlike the Opposition which is going nowhere. Kia ora tatou.