Bayly Andrew; Clark DavidANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): OK. Well I know you've got the good officials there so they might just help you on that matter.Can I just turn to a slightly different issue. Clause 4 which inserts new 28B Process for designations"—so this is a forward-leaning provision which is saying we might designate people in the future as being a grocery retailer and therefore subject to all these constraints; this is what the bill is about. What it notes is that the Minister may recommend to the Governor-General that someone be designated and it goes on to define in new section 28B(3) that you've got to consult but secondly that the commission needs to take into account the following criteria: "whether the person carries on or is likely to carry on a business of supplying all or a majority of categories of grocery products to consumers;"—so we've been having that conversation—"and (ii) whether designation of the … designated grocery retailer would be likely to promote competitive neutrality (that is a level playing field) or to otherwise promote competition". So I suppose you've talked about Costco and there's been rumours about ALDI coming into New Zealand for the last 20 years. What I was trying to understand is a lot of this power rests with the Minister and will be done by regulation and recommendation through to Order in Council. What are the likely criteria? How would we ensure someone like the third-largest grocery trader such as Night 'n Day who has a relatively small market share albeit an important market share—what would be the criteria at which point someone might be designated in the future as being a designated grocery retailer? Obviously striking the right balance is really really important. If you had Costco coming in—who's a heavyweight from overseas but actually minuscule in New Zealand—or an ALDI what would be the criteria? I'm just keen to get an understanding of that.Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Very good. Ultimately obviously the Minister is only able to take decisions upon the recommendation of the Commerce Commission and I would expect the Commerce Commission to be employing their technical expertise in making those recommendations. Now at this point I'm speculating on what process they might go through but I would expect that they would look at aspects and measures of competition in the market—you know how concentrated the market is whether prices are shifting as retailers come and go from a geographic area. In their report they found that there is no statistically significant change in prices currently when a grocery retailer turns up in town or leaves whether or not there's someone else there at the time that those prices do not seem to be moving in the market. They are set at a national level and they're not affected by any local level competition factors as you might expect in other markets. So it's those kinds of factors I imagine they would be looking at and the extent to which that occurs—this would be one factor I imagine they look at—would be determined by how much of a threat a would-be competitor is in the market whether they are really going to turn the dial whether they have sufficient scale to enter into a battle or competition in any meaningful way that's going to upset the market as a whole. Whether that's good for the market and where that threshold sits will be technical questions that the Commerce Commission I imagine will work through both using those kinds of measures and also benchmarking where it's available from overseas and benchmarking against other industries in New Zealand around similar measures.But ultimately those are technical questions for the Commerce Commission to dig into; not for the Minister to prescribe other than in the actual law as it's laid out here where it does set out some of the high-level criteria that would be applied—then the recommendation would come to the Minister for a designation."