Cosgrove Clayton: Appropriation (2008/09 Estimates) Bill — Third Reading Imprest Supply Debate 
Cosgrove Clayton: Appropriation (2008/09 Estimates) Bill — Third Reading Imprest Supply Debate 
[Volume:649;Page:17808] 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Associate Minister of Finance) 
: 
 I have a lot of pleasure in speaking in this debate and in following Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith. He gave us a very interesting history lesson about the 1990 Budget. I will make an observation: the National Party has switched. First its members attacked us. They did not want to talk about any policy because they do not have any. Then after the last 48 hours they are so desperate that they have to go back to 1990 and wheel out an old Budget document—which I think has faded from red to orange because it is so old—and talk about that. 
I want to give Dr Smith a history lesson. He talked about integrity broken promises and all those things. I just say that over on that side of the Chamber sits a man who broke his word in writing to every tertiary student in the country. Do members know what he said? He pledged to get rid of tertiary fees. He pledged to resign—we have heard those words from someone else; I think it was Mr Key—if he did not keep his word. He said he would resign because people need to have trust in politicians. He broke his word. That member was chased out of a room—I think he leapt out of a toilet window. He did not go out the front door like a man. He was chased out like a scared child and leapt out of a toilet window because he could not face the people whom he had broken his word to. Yet that member has the temerity to get up in this House— 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. One is faced with a dilemma. I know you will say this is just a debating point but if I raise a privilege issue it will get nowhere. The member just claimed that I climbed out of a toilet window. I actually went through a French door that the students themselves in the engineering department use continually to go in and out. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: That is not a point of order. I tell Dr Smith that that is a point of debate. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I did sign a pledge in 1990 and my dilemma is that if I raise an issue of privilege it will not go anywhere. One has to defend one’s rights. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: The member has raised two debating points not points of privilege. A lot of things are said in this House that either side wants to debate. This is a robust debate. I heard you in your speech make points that could have been debated against and the member is taking them up. We will continue the debate. I am sorry but that is not a point of order. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Speaking to the point of order I ask whether my time is being adjusted for the points of order. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Yes it is. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Let me correct the record because I would hate to get it wrong. Dr Smith has told us that it was not a dunny window; he ran like a scared child out of a French door— 
Hon David Benson-Pope 
: Up high. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Up high. It was a French door on a window ledge up high. He ran like a scared child from a bunch of university students because he had broken his word. I remember that great show  
Dad’s Army 
; remember that? Was it Private Frazer who said “They don’t like it up ’em.”—the old cold steel? Well that describes that member. He does not like it when his own history is reported back to him. 
Now we get to the good bit. Dr Smith tonight talked about dirty tricks. I will say that I am against people taping other people’s conversations—as is every member of this Government. It is not right. That member got up of course with a smokescreen. What was the first thing he and his leader did? They blamed the Labour Party. We heard it tonight. That member over there said the man was a Young Labour or a Labour Party member and that it was a disgrace—he blamed the Labour Party. Of course he never addressed the fact that he had been caught with the proverbials around the political ankles. That is why he blamed the Labour Party. 
But Dr Smith has a problem tonight: I invite him to go and look at tonight’s episode of  
Close Up 
. That learned journalist Mr Hosking did a sort of political rotisserie—to quote Paul Keating “did him slowly”—on his leader Mr Key. I wrote this bit down because I thought it was a classic. Mr Hosking said to Mr Key that he knew that it was not Labour. “You’re flying a kite.” Mr Key’s answer: “Ah yeah OK.” He said: “Ah yeah OK.” He admitted tonight that he knows that it was not a Labour Party member. He admitted that tonight because at 6.05 p.m. on TV3 Duncan Garner confirmed that he had gone back to his source and asked: “Are you a Labour member? Are you a National member? Are you a member of any political party?” and the answers were “No.” Dr Smith does not like that but I will quote the words again. “You’re flying a kite.” The answer: “Ah yeah OK.” So I say to Dr Smith— 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: So what? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: “So what?” he asks. Well I invite him to go to his leader’s office and say to his leader “So what?” because he does not believe his leader. 
The truth is that nobody accepts dirty tricks but today we have seen the ultimate depth of dirty tricks. John Key without a shred of evidence—he now admits he did not have any—tried to protect “Dumb and Dumber” over there Bill English and Dr Smith and Nick Smith too who has been caught out again now that he has got out of the clinic. John Key immediately blamed the Government and accused it of dirty tricks. That is what he did. The reason he did that—and now he has had to retract it and we will probably read that in the papers tomorrow—is those members got caught out. 
I want to read a quote from a member of Parliament who occasionally resides in my electorate called Kate Wilkinson. Here is what she said about National Party principles on 25 January 2007 in the  
New Zealand Herald 
: “We’ve got core National Party principles and philosophies and that’s what we were founded on and I don’t think we should depart from those principles. Having said that we also have to have policies that are wanted by the voters so it’s important to get that balance right without departing from those core principles.” Well my word have we seen a departure! They are in the departure lounge all right. They have departed from every core principle they ever had. 
When Mike Williams was taped—it happened to us and we did not accuse National—National demanded his resignation. As Hosking said on TV tonight the National Party ate off every headline. Well I ask which of Huey Dewey and Louie over there will resign for the comments they made. Will Mr Key get up and sack one of them? Which one will resign? They called every day for Mike Williams to resign. He had done nothing except make a statement. 
Well those people of course made statements. On  
Close Up 
 tonight Hosking asked Mr Key: “You will not sell Kiwibank full stop?”. Mr Key could not get the answer out; he could not confirm it. Mr Hosking on  
Close Up 
 even said this: “See this is where it gets slippery.” Those are the words he used. Then at the end of the show—[ 
Interruption 
] Oh they do not like it. The old tumbleweed over there does not like it does he? The old cold steel is moving vertically. He does not like it. Then at the end of the Hosking show when he could not get an answer out of Mr Key about Kiwibank and Mr Hosking— 
Chris Tremain 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I refer to Standing Order 107 “Relevancy” in the debate tonight. This is an experienced member of the Labour Party and a Minister in the Cabinet. This is a significant debate on appropriations and there are a lot of pages in the bill that the member can refer to and a lot of policy that he would be able to talk to about in terms of taking his party forward. He is 5 minutes into his speech and so far we have heard nothing relevant to the appropriations debate. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: This is the second reading of the Imprest Supply (Second for 2008/09) Bill and the third reading of the Appropriation (2008/09 Estimates) Bill. Either of those debates is as wide as any general debate before the House. All topics can be considered and unfortunately for the National Party that includes the National Party. 
Chris Tremain 
: Our speakers have been pulled up. In fact on that note Madam Assistant Speaker you pulled up Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith and asked him to be tighter in the debate. That is in conflict with what the Leader of the House has said. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: I am sorry but I did not ask Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith to be tighter. I made the comment that he had been speaking about another Budget and I was trying to be even-handed between the two members at that stage. That was a 1990 Budget. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Part of the appropriations is to pay these geniuses’ wages so that is what we have to hold them accountable for. That was the rearguard action of the National Party. That is the best those members can do. The best they can do is send out that young fella—a nice chap; I thought his dad was a magnificent rugby player—to defend Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith. 
The problem they have apart from his breaking his word is that he got caught. But to give him credit because we cannot say that someone is speaking an untruth—and I would never say that—it was his speaking the truth. Mr English did as well and we caught them. I was on radio with Gerry Brownlee this morning and this issue was debated as one can imagine. Did Gerry refute any of the allegations? Did he try to defend his mates? He did not refute one allegation because he knows they are completely indefensible. I invite Dr Smith as he recounts history to recall the history of no ifs no buts no maybes on the pension when he broke his word again; of the student fees when he broke his word again; and of the Apprenticeship Act which he abolished breaking his word again. He stands up in this House as a man of credibility! 
Well I want to know from Dr Lockwood Smith—and Nick Smith admitted on his sort of  
Larry King Live 
 show that Crosby/Textor is used by these people—first whether Crosby/Textor faxed over the lines for that speech from Australia. If so he should ask for his money back. Secondly who paid for it? Was it the taxpayer or the National Party? Those members would not talk to us about Crosby/Textor. There was denial after denial and they would not tell us. Well Nick Smith has done it for us. 
I think we should give Dr Lockwood Smith another call. I reckon we should get him on his feet again because that member has absolutely no credibility. The only thing of relevance that he said tonight was that it was not a dunny window but a French door. He ran through a French door like a scared little possum away from those terrible university students—threatening as they were. I remember being on the Finance and Expenditure Committee when they brought him in a cake. Mark Peck was the chair at the time. They brought that member a cake to mark the debt that he had put upon students and he ran like a little boy. He scuttled out of the room because he did not want to take the cake. So that member has no credibility. 
The real dirty trick that we are into now is that the member John Key on no evidence accused the Government. He admitted that. I call on him to apologise. This will be a test of his mettle and this will be a test of his leadership because we know he has a hollowed-out group that stand behind him.