edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3704] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 36 
New Zealand Labour 25; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
New Part 5 as amended not agreed to.
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3703] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The substance of the amendments and the substance of the Minister’s amendment are the same. That is why the others have been ruled out.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3703] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. This is a new point of order and it goes to the wording of the Rodney Hide amendment—the longer one—where throughout it there is mention of “provisions”. Probably unfortunately for Mr Hide within at least one of the new part’s amendments “provisions” are not mentioned but there are “sections”. So although “provisions” is widely used within a number of the amendments one particular set of amendments has “sections” and it is my submission to you Mr Chairperson that that set of amendments is not ruled out by the Hide amendment.
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3702] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Sure. We have just passed an amendment in the name of the Hon Rodney Hide which covers all the points you have just made. The other amendments are of the same substance. That is why the other amendments are now ruled out of order—because we have just passed that amendment in the name of the Hon Rodney Hide. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Could you elaborate? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: No. It is written down here and the member has a copy of this. We are not getting into discussion on this because we have just passed it and it is not debatable. I refer the member to the amendment we have just passed which now means that subsequent ones are out of order.
Cunliffe David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Cunliffe David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3702] 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour—New Lynn) 
: 
 In support of my colleague and as a member who has put forward a series of amendments here I say that your rulings—which we are not seeking to question; I want to make that clear—have been on two grounds: either because of inconsistency with the previous decisions of the Chair or the Committee or because they are matters related to operations rather than governance in the case of a large quantity of amendments including whole parts. So in fact two grounds of precedent are in play here. It is not clear to us from the way in which you have issued your latest ruling Mr Chairperson which of those decisions applies to the various amendments. It is a serious matter because we are dealing here with whole new parts which are debatable amendments by precedent from the Chair—from all Chairpersons—and it is important for us as we report back to our constituencies to understand the reasons why these amendments are outside the Standing Orders.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3702] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Because this is happening relatively rapidly can we ask you to elaborate on why those amendments are out of order? The one I am particularly interested in at the moment is that of Mr Prasad which refers in particular to Indian representation and I am not sure that the fact that there are to be reviews on ethnic issues cuts out that amendment. I am sure there will be parallel arguments for some of my colleagues’ other amendments but the fact that the Government has lined up an amendment to have a review generally does not cut out that specific review— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Thank you for those comments.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3702] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 39 
New Zealand Labour 28; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Amendment to the amendment agreed to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The following amendments are now out of order: amendments in the name of Jacinda Ardern amendments in the name of Dr Rajen Prasad amendments in the name of Su’a William Sio and amendments in the name of the Hon David Cunliffe.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3701] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 44 
New Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 8; Maori Party 4. 
Amendment to the amendment to the amendment agreed to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The following amendments in the names of Carmel Sepuloni Kelvin Davis the Hon Mita Ririnui Jacinda Ardern and Dr Ashraf Choudhary are out of order as they are inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Rodney Hide to the amendment to add new Part 5 in the name of the Hon Parekura Horomia be agreed to: 
to add the following new clause: 
72ARepresentation 
(1)Despite any other provision— 
(a)there will be a review of the ethnic make-up of the Transition Agency (including its governing body) on 30 May 2009; and 
(b)the review will include a review of the Maori Pacific Pakeha Chinese and Korean representation of the governing body. 
(2)Despite any other provision community boards of existing local authorities will be consulted on any Maori Pacific or other ethnic representation of the Auckland Council. 
(3)Despite any other provision representatives from all ethnic groups will be consulted on 30 May 2009 about the activities of the Transition Agency. 
(4)Despite any other provision the Minister has the power on 30 May 2009 to appoint a board of Indian members a board of Pacific members and a board of Maori members to advise the Transition Agency. 
(5)Despite any other provisions the Minister has the power on 30 May 2009 to appoint a board of experts to advise the Auckland Council on matters of ethnic affairs.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3701] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 Can I assist the member—and it might mean that we need another minute or two for the member to have a look at it. It is part of the Horomia amendment to add new Part 5. If one can find it amongst the papers that is where it is. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Thank you for that. This is the amendment that we are referring to. It is tabled.
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3701] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Just for clarity so that we are quite clear what we are voting on could we have clarified as to what this clause 72 is. I cannot seem to find it.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3700] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I have obviously just got a copy of the Minister’s amendment and I wanted to test with you whether in fact these are inconsistent or whether both could happen. Clearly there is a review to be set up in the name of the Minister. That is correct; there is no doubt about that. But the question then is whether there can also be the reviews that are set up according to the amendments in the name of Parekura Horomia. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I think you are looking at a further amendment and not the one that I have— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I am sorry. Which one have you put? The trouble is that we cannot tell which of the Minister’s amendments you are referring to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The Minister’s amendment we just voted on is this one here. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: The short one. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: And that is tabled. So that is the amendment we have just voted on. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Rodney Hide to the amendment to add new Part 5 in the name of the Hon Parekura Horomia be agreed to: 
to omit clause 72. 
A party vote was called for on the question that the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3700] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment to the amendment be agreed to.  
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 43 
New Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Amendment to the amendment agreed to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: There are a number of amendments in the name of the Hon Parekura Horomia. These are ruled out of order as they are inconsistent with the previous decision of the Committee.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3700] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I do not feel any need to go back to  
Hansard 
 at this point. My recollection is different from that of Gerry Brownlee. I know that Gerry Brownlee is an honourable member and I am prepared to accept his word. If that was what happened—I cannot remember it—then I accept his word that that was the case. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I have been advised that the closure motion was still live. That was where the debate on new Part 5 was postponed. We now come back to the position where the Hon Darren Hughes moved the closure motion. We will continue from that point.
Brownlee Gerry: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Brownlee Gerry: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3700] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I do not think it would be too hard to go directly to  
Hansard 
 to clear up this matter. My clear recollection is that Mr Barker said the words “The question is that the question be now put.” At that point Mr Hide raised a point of order to suspend the proceedings. Once the suspension has been lifted clearly we should go back to the point at which the Chair was about to proceed with the vote. I do not think there is a question about whether the Chair intended to take the motion. He in fact accepted the closure motion and was in the process of putting the question.  
Hansard 
 will show that the words “The question is that the question be now put.” were uttered. Mr Hide’s postponement at that point means that naturally we would go back to that point once the suspension has been lifted.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3700] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Can I just get absolute clarity here. My recollection—and I am absolutely clear on this—is that Mr Barker when in the Chair had not accepted the closure motion. He had not said he was going to put the question and he had not started to put it. Many of us are of the view that it would have been better if he had put the question but that is not the case. He was thinking about whether he was going to accept the motion. He had not accepted it in terms of the Standing Orders and Speakers’ rulings. Therefore the parts that are being lodged now are valid.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3699] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I think I can advise on the last question first. I think clauses 1 and 2 are the preliminary clauses. But on the substantive matter that was raised by John Carter which is what the position is with regard to further parts when Mr Barker was in the Chair and he was contemplating accepting closure he had not accepted the closure and it is my understanding that further parts can be submitted until the time that closure is accepted. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: My understanding is that the first point about the preliminary clauses is correct. Clauses 1 and 2 are the preliminary clauses of the bill. On the second point no the closure motion for Part 5 was postponed. We have before us a closure motion that was put forward by the Hon Darren Hughes. It is still appropriate.
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3699] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
: 
 Just further to that I am a little confused myself because Standing Order 293(1)(c) is not often used. If we go down to 293(4) we see that “Unless otherwise specified consideration or further consideration of—(a) any postponed clause or part is taken when all other clauses or parts have been dealt with other than preliminary clauses that are considered together”. What I am not clear about after all the amendments that have been tabled here today is what your ruling is in respect of just what the preliminary clauses are. It would be helpful to the House if you could detail the preliminary clauses that are still there.
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3699] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I just wonder whether you can help on a point of procedure. I assume now that we have done the schedules. There are two points that I want to ask about. We have a postponed amendment to insert a part—I think it is Part 5 “Mechanisms to ensure representation of Maori Pacific and Ethnic groups in the reorganisation of the Auckland Council” in the name of Shane Jones. I understand that when that was postponed there was a motion from Darren Hughes before the Committee that was to be considered. From memory I think it was a closure motion. I wonder whether that situation still stands or is that the next thing we go to. That is the first thing that I want to understand. 
The second thing that I wonder about is a matter of procedure. After the part that has been postponed is considered by the Committee and a decision is taken we move to the preliminaries as I think they are called. While we are still considering the postponed Part 5 is there an opportunity for anyone in the Committee to put another part to be considered because we have not yet got to the preliminaries? I wonder whether that is a possibility.
Mackey Moana: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mackey Moana: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3699] 
MOANA MACKEY (Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. We actually voted 32 opposed but the interpreter said 42 opposed. I just want to correct that. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The new result for Labour is 32 opposed. Members the Ayes are 64 the Noes are 43. The motion is agreed to.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3699] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the schedule be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 43 
New Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Schedule agreed to.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3698] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I want to absolutely endorse those remarks. I think you would find that absolutely everyone in the Chamber shares those views. The Clerk’s Office has worked remarkably hard and it has people of integrity and professionalism. That is why the Opposition objected so strongly to the way it was addressed by National’s Gerry Brownlee. 
My next point of order relates to the suspended amendment to insert a new Part 5 “Mechanisms to ensure representation of Maori Pacific and Ethnic groups in the reorganisation of the Auckland Council” which also deals with Asian representation in the Auckland super-city. That part was suspended by the Minister in charge of the bill the Hon Rodney Hide. We have to take that before the preliminary clauses. I am just checking that you will do that after the schedules have been voted on. Is that your intention? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Yes. Your assumption is correct. That is the process that we would go through.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3698] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Because we are now moving to consideration of the schedules I take it that all the additional parts that have been submitted by way of amendment have been ruled out of order by you—that the series that you have just ruled out were all the remaining parts that there were to be amendments. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: That is correct. 
Hon DARREN HUGHES 
: I also seek a second assurance. It was not while you were in the Chair but there was an outburst from the Leader of the House directed at the Clerk’s Office. I just want an assurance that that outburst is not linked to the fact that all of a sudden every single amendment that created a new part has been ruled out. The convenience of that for the Government is not lost on the Opposition. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Thank you. I am the sole judge of that. I can assure the member of the integrity of the Clerk’s Office and the hard work it has done over the last few days. I will be here to protect the Clerk’s Office at every opportunity and I am the sole judge of such things. I heard that comment. I was not here but I did hear that comment. Any criticism of the Clerk’s Office goes through the Chair but I want to give you the assurance that I have full faith in the integrity of the way that the Clerk’s Office has been operating.
Davis Kelvin: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Davis Kelvin: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3698] 
KELVIN DAVIS (Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Ka motinihia ahau kia whai ripoata mo to tatou kokiri whakamua. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
I move that we report progress 
.] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Progress cannot be reported on a point of order.
Smith Lockwood: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Smith Lockwood: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3696] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will deal with the matter in maybe two steps. First I reiterate what the Chair has said to the Committee of the whole House—that is that the scope of this bill is quite narrow and deals with structure and governance issues. It would be my assessment that the Chair was on very good ground in making his rulings. But more important I make it very clear that on matters of relevance the Chair is the sole judge. I refer members to Speakers’ rulings 78/1-3. Those Speakers’ rulings go back 100 years. They are some of the few Speakers’ rulings in our  
Speakers’ Rulings 
 that go back that far and they have been reiterated every few years many times. Speaker’s ruling 78/3 states: “It is bordering on an inappropriate use of the undoubted right to recall the Speaker to do so on the ground of relevance”. So where the Chair has made a judgment on the issue of relevance and scope the Speaker cannot overturn that judgment. I have taken the first step of saying that I believe that the Chair has acted on very sound ground but 100 years of Speakers’ rulings make it very very clear that the Speaker cannot overturn the judgment of the Chair on those matters.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3696] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 Mr Speaker— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please be as brief as possible. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I will try to be brief but I think there are two points. The first concerns process and I refer you back to your earlier ruling as to the role of the Chair. I make it clear that we are not challenging that ruling about the Chair’s role and his or her ability to make these decisions. I am not asking you to reverse those decisions but more to act as a Privy Counsellor of a Court of Appeal and refer back to the rulings of the Chairperson for further consideration. I do not mean all of the rulings he made because some of them were very clear and correct. For example there were substantive amendments to Acts other than Acts that were already being considered in the bill. I do not want to disagree with my colleague but it is pretty hard to argue with those rulings. 
Secondly a number of amendments were ruled out effectively because they were operational matters not governance matters. I reinforce the comments that Sue Kedgley made: this bill is riddled with operational matters such as lines being drawn as to what the transition authority can do and what it cannot do. Sue Kedgley’s amendments were absolutely consistent with the substance of the bill and therefore in my opinion it would be proper for you to invite the Chairperson to reconsider his position on that point.
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3695] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 Thank you very much Mr Speaker for coming back to the Chamber. I did not call you back lightly; I think an important precedent has just been set. There is a worry that the interpretation given by the Chairperson could be used as a way to prevent consideration of many of the Greens’ amendments which we spent considerable time and effort working on and which we felt were well within the scope of the bill. 
I am particularly concerned about the ruling that the Committee cannot consider those amendments because this bill deals only with matters of structure and not with operational matters. In fact clauses 30 and 31 for example deal entirely with operational matters. I do not think there is anything more operational than in clause 31(3)(i) whether a council can enter into a contract “the consideration for which is … $5000 or more:”. I do not think there is anything more operational than in clause 31(3)(m) whether a council is allowed to appoint “a director of a council-controlled organisation:”. I will not keep reading. Very very detailed operational matters are enshrined in the bill and therefore I do not think that it is adequate to dismiss any amendment on the grounds that it deals with operational matters. Although the Chairperson said this bill deals only with governance matters quite manifestly it deals with operational matters as well.
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3695] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I have ruled out of order a number of amendments in the name of Sue Kedgley. In my opinion they are operational matters. The Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill is about structure and governance and the amendments proposed by Sue Kedgley are operational matters. I ruled that the amendments are outside the scope of the bill. There are a number of them and I will not go through them in detail. It is my view that they fall outside the scope of the bill because they are operational. Some of them look to amend other Acts and that is inappropriate. I have ruled accordingly.
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3695] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 I move  
That the Speaker be recalled to consider this important issue. 
Motion agreed to. 
House resumed.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3695] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can I have a go Mr Chairperson? I do not think we have a proper motion before us. I am prepared to move it. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I think it is important that the person who is sponsoring the amendments recalls the Speaker. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I thought any member could move it—to get it right. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I thank the Hon Trevor Mallard for his help but I think it is appropriate that the person sponsoring the amendments have the opportunity to recall the Speaker.
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3695] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 I would like to move that we ask the Speaker to come here and give his opinion on this significant issue.
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3695] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I thank the member for those comments. [ 
Interruption 
] Could that cellphone please be turned off. I thank the member for stating her position. As I have said I have ruled the amendments out of order because they deal with operational matters. They are not debatable. Are you seeking to recall the Speaker? I invite you to do so.
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3694] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I really am struggling to understand this. I think this is a pretty important point. The bill is riddled with operational matters. In fact you could argue that much of the bill is about not structural issues but indeed very detailed operational matters such as whether someone may borrow money whether a council may contract for something worth more than $5000 or whether a council can appoint a director of a council-controlled organisation. They are very very detailed provisions. I wonder whether it would be possible to recall the Speaker to get his ruling on the matter; otherwise a lot of our very sensible amendments which we have put a lot of effort work and time into and which we feel cover important strategic issues are going to be ruled out.
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3694] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: My interpretation in my ruling relates to the preliminary provisions of the bill. They set out very clearly that the bill is about structure and governance and not about operational matters. My ruling is based on the preliminary provisions of the bill before us—the clauses associated with those. That is my ruling.
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Kedgley Sue: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3694] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I cannot understand how you can rule that this bill deals only with substantive amendments and does not deal with operational amendments when the bill deals with incredibly detailed operational matters. You need only to look at clause 31 which says the councils are not allowed even to enter into a contract of more than $5000 without the approval of the Auckland Transition Agency. Very very detailed operational matters are outlined in other parts of the bill. I cannot understand how it can be argued that the bill does not deal with operational matters when in fact the whole bill is full of them.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3693] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 42 
New Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 7; Maori Party 3. 
Noes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
New Part 12 not agreed to.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3693] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the motion be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 42 
New Zealand Labour 32; Green Party 7; Maori Party 3. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Steve Chadwick be agreed to: 
to insert the following new part: 
Part 12 
Paid Parental Leave Entitlement 
250Nothing in this Act shall affect the rights and entitlements of any employee of any territorial authority under the Parental Leave and Employment Protection Act 1987. 
251Notwithstanding anything in the Act all current councils and any new council created under this legislation will be related employees for the purposes of the Parental Leave and Employment Protection Act 1987.
Guy Nathan: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Guy Nathan: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3693] 
NATHAN GUY (Senior Whip—National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Adams Amy: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Adams Amy: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3692] 
AMY ADAMS (National—Selwyn) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Macindoe Tim: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Macindoe Tim: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3690] 
TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3689] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3682] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I have now had time to consider Standing Order 293 as far as (4)(a) and (4)(b). I was under the impression that the Minister was not specific on his delay and therefore the effect of what he has done is to put this right down to the bottom before the preliminary clauses. So we will do the other 27 or 28 parts unless they get similarly deferred and then we will come back to this at the end before we deal with the preliminary clauses—probably on Thursday or Friday maybe. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: We have a very interesting position here. I cannot remember the Committee being in this gymnastic position before. It is a very unusual twist and I think that people who are listening to this will be unaware that there are other circumstances outside this Chamber that are driving this and the timeliness of it. But firstly to the simple point: the situation as I understand it is that the Hon Darren Hughes has moved a closure motion at which point I was about to consider whether we should put it. Then enter stage right the Hon Rodney Hide who says that he wants to exercise his authority as the member in charge of the bill to have the consideration of this part or provision postponed. That is his right; there is no argument about it. At the moment that occurs it then freezes everything on this part; it is simply sealed in an envelope and pushed to one side. So we do not deal with the closure motion from this point; the whole lot is locked up and is moved. 
We then go to Standing Order 293(4)(a) the part I would rely on here which states: “any postponed clause or part is taken when all other clauses or parts have been dealt with other than preliminary clauses that are considered together”. It seems to me that the Standing Order is saying to us that we are now reorganising things so that this part which is in the name of Shane Jones now moves right to the back of the queue and we now start on the next part that we have for consideration. At the point we reopen it will be the time we then consider—I suspect I will get some advice from the Clerk on this—the motion moved by the Hon Darren Hughes. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Right at the end just before the preliminary clause. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: That is correct. If the Clerk advises me differently on that I will come back to you but that is as I see it at that point. 
New Part 5 postponed.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3682] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I have two points of order to raise with you. First regarding the status of the motion that I moved you will have to give a decision on whether the question would be put. Second in respect of the Minister in charge of the bill not wanting to consider the bill that is in urgency before the Committee at the present time when we return to this part we will be at the point after my closure motion. That is my first point of order. My second point of order relates to the time factor in which the Minister in charge of the bill wants to postpone consideration of this part. We will need to know what time we are going to come back to that in order to consider it because we have other parts ahead to debate. If we get ourselves into a position where we have finished those parts and have to report progress the opportunity for this part to be voted on by the Committee and for the amendments to be considered by the Committee will not come. I am presuming it is not a catch-all so that the Minister can delay for consideration just this part for another day—whatever that might mean.
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
HONE HARAWIRA (Maori Party—Te Tai Tokerau) 
: 
 I was simply going to say that although I respect the right of Mr Hughes to call for the motion to be taken that does not deny the right of other members to stand and ask for the call. Is that correct? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: No that is not quite correct. Members might stand to seek the call but once a member has sought and moved the motion that the question be now put it is the Chair’s decision as to whether the question is put. If it is put the Committee will decide whether the question is put. If the Chair decides not to take the motion then of course the floor is open for other members to take a call at that point.
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I am not raising a new point; I am speaking to the point of order following that of Mr Mallard. I am hoping to help the Committee by saying that you are quite right that the Minister as you have already stated has the right to make that decision and postpone and it is not debatable. It is the right of the member in charge of the bill. That is the advice that I have sought and that is the motion that— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: All right. I now call the honourable member Hone Harawira.
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
HONE HARAWIRA (Maori Party—Te Tai Tokerau) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairman. I raised a second point of order before Mr John Carter rose to make a point of order. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I just told the member I am going to listen to John Carter first and I will come back to that member second.
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
HONE HARAWIRA (Maori Party—Te Tai Tokerau) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I raised a point of order before Mr John Carter. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: Can I just first say to the honourable Hone Harawira that I heard the point of order. I did not think it was particularly relevant to this. The Hon Darren Hughes had moved a procedural motion. It is not debatable it is not about content and it is then for the Committee to decide. I have the choice of whether I put the motion. I was in the process of making that decision. In the meantime the situation has changed because the Minister in charge of the bill has exerted his right under Standing Order 293(1)(c) which states: “the member in charge of the bill requires that consideration or further consideration of a part or other provisions be postponed.” The Minister is now saying that he is postponing consideration of that part and that is his right—it is his motion. If that right is exercised then the debate on this stops. The Hon John Carter has a point of order. Once I have dealt with his I will come back to the member.
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I may also be able to help the Committee.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I can probably be helpful and say that my reading of the Standing Orders means that you do not have any discretion in this matter. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: Can I say to the honourable member on this matter that I think I agree. I will confirm with the Clerk precisely the effect of this.
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Harawira Hone: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
HONE HARAWIRA (Maori Party—Te Tai Tokerau) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson.
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3681] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 A whole raft of amendments have been tabled. Under Standing Order 293(1)(c) as Minister in charge of this bill I require that consideration of this part be postponed to give the presiding officer time to prepare the papers.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3680] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 The proposition put to you by the Leader of the House is not correct. Since we have returned from lunch Mr Macindoe sought a closure motion and Mr King got two-thirds through a closure motion before being told he was not to do that. So Mr Brownlee is not correct. I have moved a motion and I would like you to consider the motion I have moved.
Brownlee Gerry: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Brownlee Gerry: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3680] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. We had two senior members of Labour giving impassioned speeches this afternoon and asking for more time to be taken on this matter. We have not moved a closure motion since those speeches. I think you need to consider whether the generosity of the Government in allowing Labour the time it wants for this debate is going to be abused. Or do we have confirmation that the entire attack from Labour is trivial? On the one hand those members asked for extra time and got it but now they have decided they want to shut things down.