Groser Tim: Geographical Indications (Wine and Spirits)  Registration Bill — In Committee 
Groser Tim: Geographical Indications (Wine and Spirits)  Registration Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:635;Page:6242] 
TIM GROSER (National) 
: 
 I will take just a brief call on this issue following on from my colleague Mr Hayes. Under the principle that it sometimes takes a thief to catch a thief I have to say that Mr Hayes and I who have worked as officials for probably rather more time than we would care to admit are extremely conscious of the times and occasions when we really need the expertise of an official and the times and occasions when there are severe limitations in relying just on officials. So on the basis of that old principle we have been surprised right through the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee process that there has actually been a fundamental resistance on the part of the Government to the industry’s perspective on this. 
Let me explain to the Committee the reality that I see coming through this instead of using abstract terms. What will happen is that the Ministry of Economic Development will appoint as the registrar if the legislation goes through in its current form an extremely bright young intellectual property lawyer whom it will have recruited at some recent point. That person will because he or she will be extremely well informed about the policy frameworks know his or her way right around the World Intellectual Property Organization legislation the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights and all the other relevant conventions and have a very clear view from his or her academic training as to what is required. 
When it comes to the rather subjective nature of what is terroir which is a word I think we use in English now to indicate the characteristics of wine he or she will have only as much experience as he or she will have acquired at the University of Otago—it may be rather more than at other universities—through the consumption of wine up till that point. To make decisions here is not just a matter of applying the cadastral boundaries drawn up by the Surveyor-General; it requires deep knowledge of the industry and of the very subjective characteristics that make up the raw ingredients in a decision on what constitutes a geographical indication. 
So this young person will be beavering away working very hard and very earnestly on this and trying to comprehend the very subjective information coming from industry from the people who have been years in the business. That person will then be promoted within the department—this is the reality. I have heard this complaint about the official process 100 times from the industry—not necessarily in this context or in the context of the Ministry of Economic Development but right across the board of Government—when a person with high levels of expertise and deep background is needed. That person will then move up in his or her career path within the ministry or A J Park will recruit him or her at twice the salary because intellectual property lawyers are very handsomely remunerated in the private sector. Then the industry has to start again essentially by educating some other bright young thing. 
How much better it would be if we could just understand the reality that this requires deep knowledge of the industry. It is not something that can be purely and simply acquired from studying intellectual property law at any of New Zealand’s excellent law faculties. It is something whereby one requires a deep involvement and some sympathy. 
 This proposal put forward by my colleague Mr Hayes to try to centre the process on the people with the expertise is simply common sense. It has been utterly mystifying to me why in the course of putting this bill forward—and the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee has worked in very good spirit—there has been such resistance. One always had the feeling that the resistance was not from the elected representatives of the Government but from their fronting up for the officials who had a particularly sharp view about wanting to control the process. So I urge the Committee to consider quite carefully the human and other issues involved in this and to support my colleague.