Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Mr Chair. We've heard from the Green Party and it reminded me of the fact that it is the Green Party policy that when somebody has a warrant out for their arrest and they're on the run we should not stop paying them benefits. I'd be interested to know whether the Minister thinks that that would be helpful from an overall point of public safety. You're on the run with a warrant out for your arrest for a violent crime—for murder or a sexual crime or something like that—but we should still get you your benefit: I'd be interested in the Minister's view on that. The Minister did refer to the question of prison population. We did have the benefit of the long-term insights from the Ministry of Justice on the prison population and it did refer to the fact that the New Zealand prison population was mainly predominantly in there for serious violent and sexual offences. Actually the number of people in New Zealand prisons for drug offences was relatively low in international terms and falling—and obviously for property crime it was relatively low. The vast majority in prison are in for serious violent and sexual offences. But there has been a dramatic drop in the prison population from the moment of the entrance of this Government in late 2017 - early 2019 where you will see a 37 percent drop in the sentenced population in our prisons—37 percent. A colossal falling away of people in prison for sentenced offences since 2018 and that is being driven so the officials said by—it reflects police and judicial practice and the greater use of community-based sentences. So the question I have for the Minister is: what does she think has driven that dramatic change with the change of Government and the 37 percent drop in prisoners given the fact that the majority of people in New Zealand prisons are there for serious sexual and violent offences? And we know that there has been a 33 percent increase in violent crime since the Government took office in the same period. There's been a 140 percent increase in serious assaults during the same period and there's been a 550 percent increase in ram raids. There has also been a 61 percent increase in gang membership and—I'll give you one more stat—a 51 percent increase in gun crimes by gang members. So you've got these two things going on: a significant increase in violent crime which is making people feel afraid in their homes and in their communities and is creating many many more victims of crime and at the same time we've seen this dramatic 37 percent drop in the number of people in prisons because of a direct change in police and judicial practice. What I want to know is what's driven that change and my hunch is that it is the single goal that this Government has which has been to reduce the prison population irrespective of what's going on in our communities. I'd like to get a better sense from the Minister as to what she thinks has driven that change and what responsibility she takes for her Government's action in that and whether she takes some responsibility for the overall increase in violent crime that she's seeing. Obviously it's the people who are perpetuating the acts of violence who are primarily responsible but in terms of overall justice policy is she concerned at all about those two diverging statistics that we're seeing? Like I say we have a 33 percent increase in violent crime big increases in serious assaults and a host of other gun crimes and a host of other issues but also at the same time from the moment this Government took office there was a dramatic falling away in the number of people in prison for sentences.