Williams Poto; Rurawhe AdrianHon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector): Firstly I just want to say that I heard an interjection from one of the members of the Opposition to say that we were filibustering this bill. I just want to assure the Opposition that actually what we're doing on this side of the House is working hard to ensure that members of the public understand the debate that members of the public can be assured that the Government is working hard for them and that words are put into the Hansard so that our legislators know the full intent of what it is that we are doing here today. So I want to assure the Opposition: don't worry we've got this one. The other thing I want to say is to refer to Mr Hudson's contribution. I think he overplays it as being a neo-liberal solution and I have got some words to say on that matter. I don't think he has characterised it quite correctly.Firstly I want to say that I have been involved with this particular piece of legislation prior to its coming to the House in my previous role as the Opposition spokesperson for the community and voluntary sector. I went and met with the Blind Foundation when they were discussing the ratification of this particular treaty. Now it's my understanding that there was a certain number of countries that had to sign up to the treaty before the treaty was triggered—that's my understanding; I stand to be corrected if that's not correct—and once that occurred we were then able to introduce the legislation to put before the House. The Blind Foundation along with many others submitted to the select committee—the select committee ably chaired by Jonathan Young and I thank the chairman for steering this particular piece of legislation through the committee; it was done very collegially and I think there were some robust and interesting debates.There are broadly two groups that are benefiting from this. The first is those who want to access print text and that kind of material for recreational purposes and the other group is those who require those texts for study—so universities and academic institutions namely. When we got to the point of the discussion around the commercial availability test it was clear that if this is required for recreational use the Blind Foundation didn't perhaps have as high a need for us to examine that particular part of this bill as did the academic institutions. What they were saying is that someone with a vision impairment could start a course and it could be several months before the text was available for them if at all and it seriously impaired their ability to be able to participate in those courses.So that was one of the key examinations that we looked at: what was the reason for the commercial availability test? As Mr Hudson said I think the solution we got to was quite elegant in that it looked at the ability to encourage producers of the material whether that be authors or publishers to come up with a mechanism that would allow them to have commercially available material so that we could access that quickly if academic institutions needed for that to be so. I think that was a really useful discussion in that regard.There are other issues that the Minister did raise—other issues that came up with regards to the copyright. Some of the authors and publishers were concerned that their copyright availability—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe): I'm sorry to interrupt the member but it's come time for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7.30 p.m. Kia orana.Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.