Carter DavidRt Hon DAVID CARTER (National): I'd like to start by congratulating Michael Wood the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee for a beautifully read speech. He did that extremely well and I hope by the time this legislation's gone through the Finance and Expenditure Committee he understands the complexity around this legislation substantially more. I also want to congratulate the Government for presenting this legislation to the House—of course not the current Labour - Greens - Mr 7 Percent" Government but of course the former National Government for the work it did in putting this on to the Order Paper. Yet again we stand in this House progressing National Government legislation as this shambolic Government gets its Order Paper ready for some real action.I do want to acknowledge the contribution by the Minister of Revenue Stuart Nash. This is difficult stuff and I can understand why he moved the motion to refer the bill to the select committee and then decided not to make a further contribution because his record around taxation and the complexity of taxation is not something that he's shown a huge ability with. I recall on one occasion as you will indeed Madam Deputy Speaker Mr Nash as then the Opposition revenue spokesperson having a real crack at New Zealand's largest company Fonterra suggesting that company should be taxed on revenue and not on profitability. That is sort of a basic lack of understanding that Mr Nash has shown to date and I'm sure that's the very reason why he decided not to make a substantial contribution to this piece of legislation. But I assure Mr Nash as the current Minister of Revenue that when this work goes to the Finance and Expenditure Committee the Opposition will cooperate completely to make sure this legislation hears the very valued submissions that come forward—Hon Shane Jones: Why?Rt Hon DAVID CARTER: Oh Mr Shane Jones interjects and says: why would we cooperate? There's another member who doesn't understand the complexity around this legislation. It is critical that we get it right because if we get it wrong—Hon Shane Jones: Best chairman ever of the finance committee.Rt Hon DAVID CARTER: —if we get it wrong Mr Jones we potentially chase international companies away from New Zealand when they look for other opportunities to operate somewhere else in the world in this global environment. Mr Jones will come to realise that when he starts spending a billion dollars I assure you. But the world is a competitive place and if we manage to muck this legislation up because as a select committee we're not prepared to listen to submissions then what it will do is give these international companies an opportunity to go elsewhere and I for one Mr Shane Jones do not want to see that happen.Our tax system is renowned around the world for its fairness. It is a broad based - low rate taxation system. It is fair but this is a problem around base erosion and profit sharing that is occurring all around the world. We're finding that all developed countries are facing the same challenge with how we deal with companies like Facebook like Google etc. where they are looking for their opportunities to operate and obviously to pay as little tax as possible. That is a legitimate minimisation technique but where I object and where the former National Government completely objects is when these countries take the opportunity not to use it for minimisation of tax but to use the opportunity for straight evasion and avoidance of tax—and that shouldn't happen.I can understand Mr Nash's enthusiasm to get this National legislation into the House off to the select committee and passed as quickly as possible. Mr Nash is certainly a very enthusiastic Minister of Revenue. He had been in the job a matter of a week or two and he was proposing to change the legislation to make sure we tax all internet purchases from anywhere in the world as they come across our border. A wonderful idea—currently we tax anything that's over $400—and then Mr Nash was beaten down by the Minister of Finance Grant Robertson and told that while his idea was enthusiastic and we should develop it over time it was not something that was going to happen in the first three years of this current Labour Government. So I congratulate Mr Nash for his enthusiasm. I can assure him that as this particular base erosion and profit sharing legislation goes towards the select committee we will do our very best our level best to bring it back in a shape that delivers potential—Hon Shane Jones: Average very average.Rt Hon DAVID CARTER: Well Mr Jones interjects again saying we'll do an average job. I refer Mr Jones to Labour's fiscal plan post - Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update revision which points out that they will collect $200 million more a year going forward than National was budgeting to do under the very same legislation. I say to Mr Jones we'll be doing more than an average job if we can increase tax revenue for his high-spending Government by over $200 million more than National had budgeted even though the legislation is exactly the same. It's no different Mr Jones from what National was proposing.Which brings me to my final point: I think we need to be very very careful about this Government and where it proposes to spend this extra revenue. A Government has a duty—and I think Mr Wood said this—to tax and tax fair. We have a duty to tax in an international scene and that means cooperating with other international tax jurisdictions. As I've pointed out—laboriously I think—to Mr Jones if we don't get that right and then Google and Facebook manage to go somewhere else to operate who's the loser then Mr Shane Jones but National? So what we're going to see is making sure we get this legislation right but then there is a duty for the then Government to spend that money wisely. What I'm seeing so far is nothing more than the cynical attempt it made last time it was in Government to take taxpayers' money target particular voting areas—last time it was interest-free student loans—Hon Shane Jones: Relevance?Rt Hon DAVID CARTER: —this time it's—well I'm sure even the Hon Shane Jones understands that when you pass legislation you raise revenue. When you raise revenue you have the opportunity to spend it the Hon Shane Jones. Nothing has changed in the three or four years that member was outside this place. That is basic about tax revenue. But there is then a duty and a responsibility to make sure that revenue is spent wisely and not in any attempt to go and buy particular sectors of voters to attempt to ensure the return of a Labour - Greens - "7 percenter" - type Government after the next election.Madam Deputy Speaker thank you for the opportunity to say a few words on this legislation. I look forward to it coming to the select committee and if it's based on the type of submissions we had in the time that I chaired the Finance and Expenditure Committee—now many years ago I do admit—then those submissions are of immense value in making sure we tidy this legislation up and get it right so that it works to protect the New Zealand tax base to work in cooperation with similar regimes right around the world to make sure that these companies whatever their name is whatever their industry is pay a fair and legitimate portion of tax from their legitimately gained profits."