2. Question No. 2—FinanceNICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 2—Finance2. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: On what date did he first request advice for the Government's support for New Zealanders by way of a targeted and temporary cost of living payment and what warning if any did officials give him about potential problems with this proposal? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): As far back as November 2021 when the Government announced increases to the Working for Families tax credits as part of the package of support to come into effect from 1 April we were aware of the need to provide targeted support to New Zealanders for the cost of living increases that they were facing. We followed this up with reductions to fuel excise road-user charges and public transport fares that were announced on 14 March. I formally requested advice on further support for low and middle income New Zealanders not receiving the winter energy payment on 21 March. Implementing an action like this in response to a cost of living crisis was not something that had been done previously in New Zealand. Officials indicated that there could be a range of issues with such a payment as has been released within the regulatory impact statement. Officials then went on to determine how to best work through those issues and deliver the payment in a timely way during a crisis period. I stand by our actions to put in place measures to support New Zealanders during this period of time and in fact note that members of the Opposition were themselves calling for such measures. We just found ones that were better than $2 a week for someone on the minimum wage. Nicola Willis: Is it a coincidence that he first sought advice on the cost of living payment on 21 March just one week after the Prime Minister finally admitted that there was a cost of living crisis? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think the member needs to be careful with her conspiracy theories on the other side of the House. What I would say to the member as I said in my primary answer is that from November the Government was focused on what we could do to support New Zealanders through the cost of living pressures they were facing and indeed I'm surprised that the member didn't choose the intervention of one Nicola Willis on 16 March who called for people in the squeezed middle—people earning between $60000 and $70000—to get some extra support. So perhaps the member rather than that conspiracy theory might want to put herself at the centre of it. Nicola Willis: Why did the Minister insist on going ahead with this payment when his own officials warned against progressing such a significant policy in accelerated timeframes" as there are "significant risks associated with designing this proposal at speed"? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I know this will come as a shock to the member but from time to time Governments disagree with the Treasury. It's hard to believe but it does happen and in fact the member might want to reflect back on some of the occasions that it occurred for her party. On this side of the House we faced up to the fact that people were facing—as the member called on us to do—a cost of living crisis and we designed in that period of time something to reach a group of New Zealanders who had not been supported by actions on 1 April. I stand by that action. Nicola Willis: Did it come as a shock to the Minister to learn that a quarter of the money on the cost of living payment has gone to the top 30 percent of households and that's before you count expats in London and French backpackers? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The information about the distribution of the payment was in fact contained in the advice that we got in the Cabinet paper that went to Cabinet so that is not a revelation to me. However the member would find it perhaps a revelation to know that had her policy been implemented those on the highest incomes would have been getting thousands of dollars a week—that's untargeted for you. Nicola Willis: Does he on reflection agree with the advice by Treasury that inflation is unlikely to dissipate in the short term which makes a one-off payment a poor mechanism for supporting households with a longer-term problem? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What the Treasury went on to advise was that if a payment was temporary or targeted it had less likelihood of exacerbating inflation. What we decided was alongside the investments that are long term—such as lifting main income benefits such as our ongoing commitment to the winter energy payment—that some temporary and targeted support for a wider group of New Zealanders was justified. That member and her leader spent several weeks telling the Government that they needed to look after the squeezed middle. We did it. Nicola Willis: Can he confirm that because of the compressed time lines for the design of this payment no data from Immigration New Zealand was used by Inland Revenue in making the payment so there could be tens or hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders living overseas who have received this payment? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I cannot confirm the claim that the member has made. What I can confirm is that the Government responded to the fact that we needed to move quickly. The Opposition were telling us it was a crisis. We took action to make sure that money is getting into the pockets of New Zealanders earning less than $70000 a year. The member used to think that that was important. Nicola Willis: Is the Minister surprised to learn of a written question answer from David Parker the Minister of Revenue in which he said "I have been informed Inland Revenue has not worked with Immigration New Zealand in implementing the cost of living payment." and don't you think it would have been a good idea for them to do that? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As the member knows because she put the written question to the Minister of Revenue those are matters operationally for the ministry of Inland Revenue. What I do know is that the payment has reached nearly 1.4 million New Zealanders who are being supported through a cost of living crisis. The member might not like the fact that the policy has been delivered but it has been delivered. It is targeted and it is reaching the people who need it. Nicola Willis: Why does the Minister insist on calling the payment targeted when he knows it's being sprayed around the world it's gone to high-income households and deceased people he was warned by Inland Revenue that their data wasn't up to date and he didn't have any time to address that because he was acting in a reactive panic? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I'll tell you what's untargeted. What's untargeted is a policy that would give thousands of dollars to the highest-income earners while giving $2 a week to people who are on the minimum wage. The Government as we have done throughout COVID has taken action quickly to support New Zealanders."