Little Andrew: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLittle Andrew: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 06 May 2015. Volume:705;Page:3217. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]2.ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition)to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in his Ministers’ implementation of the Whānau Ora programme in light of the Auditor-General’s report finding $42 million of its $138 million budget in its first 4 years was spent on administration?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):Yes.Andrew Little: After the $42 million spent on administration and the untold millions eaten up by service providers how much Whānau Ora money is actually reaching families in need?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I do not have the exact number but I can quote the Auditor-General’s report where she talks about the success Whānau Ora has had for the many families that they spoke to.Andrew Little: Why when 2 years ago the Government announced Whānau Ora was being overhauled because it was wasteful and ineffective has nothing changed?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Quite to the contrary actually. I acknowledge that there were some early teething issues. When you try something new against a very complex and complicated environment and an environment that actually had not been delivering for those families I accept that there were some teething issues. But there are now joint agencies and what has happened is there are now three commissioning agencies. I think the new structure that is in place is seeing a greater provision of services for those families with those complex needs.Andrew Little: When did senior Ministers on the Crown-iwi Whānau Ora Partnership Group advise him that there were issues of wasteful spending in Whānau Ora?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I simply do not have those dates but I do know that over time there have been reviews. As I said the system was new and it was trying to tackle these needs for complex families. I think it is actually building into a programme that has been very successful for those families. In fact if you go and have a look at the Ministry of Health for example it has done a review of Whānau Ora general practices and compared them with mainstream general practices and it has gone on to say that Whānau Ora performs as well or better. This is a new way of doing things—putting families at the heart of solving those issues with a navigator with these commissioning agencies and I do think it is building into a programme that is delivering results.Andrew Little: Why has it taken the Auditor-General’s office and an expensive audit report by her to identify the wasteful spending and the $42 million spent on administration when he had Ministers such as Bill English and Steven Joyce sitting on the Crown-iwi Whānau Ora Partnership Group who were there to advise him on the progress of the implementation of Whānau Ora?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I do not think the member accurately categorises things. What has happened is there were some one-off costs and there has been a new way of doing things. I think that came with those costs and with some early teething issues. But the changes that took place took place because of the review work done by a variety of Ministers including the work done by Te Puni Kōkiri and by Tariana Turia when she was in Parliament. It actually led to these commissioning agencies and I think they have done a much better job of tightening up the system and delivering the results we want.Andrew Little: Having spent $137 million of taxpayers’ money on Whānau Ora does he agree with the Auditor-General that “It was not easy to describe what it is or what it has achieved.”; if so what consequences will his Ministers face?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly as I said the Auditor-General’s report does not cover for the most part the phase where now you have got the commissioning agencies. So that is the first point I would make. Secondly what I would say is that this is an area where we have always spent a lot of money—successive Governments have and actually they have failed to deliver results. One of the reasons is that these families have very very complicated needs. So when you look at Whānau Ora which nowadays has commissioning agents within that it has the providers that go out there and it has navigators—the people who actually sit alongside the families and help them navigate a range of different agencies and support measures. Actually I think that is the right way of tackling a very complicated and difficult area.Andrew Little: Does he accept that had he bothered to get value for money out of Whānau Ora and other Government programmes he would now be in a position to keep his promise to post a surplus in the Budget?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No quite the opposite actually. This Government over the course of the last 6½ years has challenged the siloed approach that was in place under the previous Government. Actually what it has delivered are far better results. That is why the Government is actually quite happy to have Better Public Services targets why it actually measures those targets and why from everything from health to education to welfare we are delivering better results for New Zealanders. We are doing things a different way and frankly it is a more integrated and better way.