Court Simon; Woods MeganSIMON COURT (ACT): Thank you Mr Chair and thank you Minister for the opportunity to ask some questions about this bill. Now what is the problem that this bill tries to solve? Apparently some fuel companies might set wholesale fuel prices that the Minister considers excessive or that somebody at the Commerce Commission decides based on principles unknown that a fuel company is charging an excessive amount for petrol and diesel at the terminal gate. Well we have terminal gate pricing. I've just jumped online and had a look at Z Energy and Mobil. If I was a registered terminal gate customer I could send my truck and trailer there right now to pick up a load of gas from Wiri or if I was in the South Island from Timaru or Dunedin and I know what the terminal gate price is. Now that's not to say I couldn't get a better price if I was a bigger customer and I was filling up dozens and dozens of diggers and trucks a day because terminal gate pricing is just one mechanism to indicate what the wholesale price is generally. But that's not to say that some customers can't get better deals because they buy more fuel. Maybe they pay on seven-day terms rather than on 28-day terms; maybe they're just more trustworthy and have a better credit rating so they get better prices.What is the problem this Government is trying to solve with this bill? Well when I look at the wholesale price of fuel right now for 91 petrol the importer's cost is $1.018 and this is according to the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment's (MBIE) own weekly fuel price monitoring data which is available to anybody who wants to jump on the MBIE website and search for it. So the cost of 91 petrol at the moment is about $1.01 per litre to import. The margin on that the importer's margin is about 32.9c but remember that's margin; it's not profit margin. They still have to pay costs out of that.Then the ETS—the emissions trading scheme—price which means that everybody who fills up with petrol and diesel pays for their emissions; the emissions trading scheme price on a litre of 91 is 13.8c per litre. The fuel excise duty is 86.3c per litre and the GST is 30.6c per litre. So for a litre of 91 petrol it costs $1.01 to get into the country. The importer makes 32c a litre gross but the Government takes $1.30 a litre—the Government takes $1.30 a litre and the importer's margin is 32c. So if there was a problem with the cost of fuel this Government just needs to walk up to a very small mirror because it is the problem—a small mirror will show the Government that it is the problem.So what would make New Zealanders feel better about paying this fuel tax—this $1.30 a litre? Is it because they get world-class roads? Is it because there's no potholes on their journey? Even today State Highway 1 Dome Valley was closed due to a slip. Trucks and private vehicles were being rerouted along roads that New Zealand Transport Agency has said are unsuitable for heavy vehicles. How many times has Dome Valley been closed? Is this climate change? Is it excessive rainfall caused by climate change? Did this Government declare a nuclear-free moment—that climate change was this generation's nuclear-free moment and if so why aren't they spending some of this fuel tax money they collect from motorists on actually fixing roads? Or maybe the problem's not with the wholesale fuel price; maybe it's that the public have lost trust in this Government to spend money on important things things that New Zealanders need like roads so they can get around safely that don't wash out or have rocks fall on to them every time there is a shower of rain?So do you think it's bad now that the price of 91 petrol—$2.65 a litre roundabout when you add up the stats on MBIE's weekly fuel price monitor—that will soon go up 25c a litre; on 30 June the Government's 25c a litre cut to fuel excise duty expires and so the petrol price that Kiwis will pay at the pump jumps from $2.65 to $2.90 a litre. So Minister a question: do you think Kiwis feel like they're getting value for money for the $1.30 a litre soon to be $1.55 a litre that they're paying this Government to provide transportation services? Are Kiwis getting value for money—motorists getting value for money Minister?Secondly—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Mr Court now you've referred to the bill but you're not talking to it. Can we come back to the bill; you've had a pretty good run. We are hearing it as one part so I've been fairly generous but now you're into your second five-minute slot; let's talk about the bill please.SIMON COURT: Thank you Mr Chair. So the question is: for $1.30 a litre what additional increase in the wholesale fuel price—currently $1.01 per litre—how much would it have to move to trigger the Government or the Commerce Commission before they would look at the margin and they would say Crikey a margin's 32 cents a litre now."? How much would that margin have to increase Minister before that would trigger a review of fuel prices and potential imposition of a wholesale price? Minister.Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources): I'll answer the question that came at the end of that contribution. I refer the member to new section 29C of the legislation about "When terminal gate prices may be regulated". It's for the relevant specified engine fuel and bulk storage facility that were above what would be expected in a competitive market. Now obviously in a competitive market you're going to have a broad spread of prices. Everybody can see when they're driving around their own patch that prices at self-service petrol stations are much lower than they are at full-service petrol stations. There will also therefore be differences in terminal gate pricing in different places but there are tests that need to be applied about what can be reasonably expected in a competitive market. This is about the functioning of that competitive market. We go then through to 29D which specifies and lays out how the inquiry would be triggered and then through to 29E the "Commission inquiry into particular terminal gate prices". So there are various ways that it can be triggered: the commission can do it itself; the Minister can write to the commission and request it but then there has to be an inquiry—much like we have with the fuel market study. It's not just the commission makes a decision that they think that there's some anti-competitive behaviour and therefore can regulate the price at the terminal gate; there are specified processes that need to be gone through."