5. Question No. 5—FinanceNICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 5—Finance5. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: What was the change in GDP per capita in each of the past two quarters and does he agree that by that measure the New Zealand economy is going backwards?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): In the March 2023 quarter real GDP per capita was down 0.7 percent from December and in the December quarter it was down 1.1 percent from September. However on an annual basis Stats New Zealand reported that real GDP per capita in the March quarter was up 2.4 percent from a year ago following annual growth of 2.4 percent in the December quarter. In answer to the second part of the question this is a tough time for many New Zealand households. New Zealand's real GDP per capita is rising on an annual basis—indeed on both quarterly and yearly measures—and real GDP per capita has risen faster under this Government compared to the previous Government but we will continue to support New Zealanders through this challenging time.Nicola Willis: Was Labour Party finance spokesperson Grant Robertson correct in 2017 when he said: we got the last quarter's growth and once again GDP per capita fell—two quarters in a row of GDP per capita falling. And so per person … New Zealand is going backwards" and why is it different this time?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: That handsome young somewhat naïve member at the time—no I recall that line of questioning very accurately and the response I got referred me to "yearly" rather than "quarterly" results because quarterly results show considerable volatility. Nowadays I bear that in mind.Nicola Willis: Well was Labour Party finance spokesperson Grant Robertson correct in 2016 when he said that flat GDP per capita was "the story of a complacent out-of-touch Government"; and if so what does it say about his Government which just oversaw per capita GDP declining for two quarters in a row?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Look I can help the member out—if this is going to be the line of supplementary questions—in that the answer to: "Was Grant Robertson the Labour finance spokesperson correct?" is generally "Yes" and if there are further questions in that line that will be the answer. In terms of the second part of the member's question about that particular Government at that particular time being complacent absolutely that Government was complacent at that time. They were failing to invest properly in the skills of New Zealanders they were failing to invest properly in research and development they'd become complacent about international trade agreements and all the many things that make up productivity. So absolutely that man was correct.Nicola Willis: Does he agree with the reflection Grant Robertson shared in Parliament in 2016 that "We only grow our share of the economic cake when GDP per capita grows otherwise we are running hard to stay still."; and isn't it the case that with his complacent anti-growth policies Kiwis are running harder to stay still?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member is completely incorrect. This was a Budget that increased investment in our science and innovation sector. This was a Budget that increased investment in skills. This is a Government that has signed on to important free-trade agreements with the European Union with the United Kingdom. This is a Government that continues to support businesses and to support individuals in our community to succeed and thrive. Nicola Willis: Is he aware that New Zealand's decline in GDP per capita in the past six months was worse than in a range of European countries including those struggling with major energy challenges following the Ukraine conflict including Germany and the United Kingdom—why is it so much worse in New Zealand?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This is an occasion to be able to refer to annualised figures because different countries are at different points in their recovery from the COVID pandemic. It is right to say that New Zealand's annual GDP is up 2.9 percent higher than the long-run average; compared to the same quarter a year ago it is 2.2 percent larger. If we compare to those other countries on that basis Australia is at 2.3 percent Canada joins us at 2.2 percent and the countries in the European area that she refers to have 1.3 percent. It is true that countries are at different stages but when we do compare it annually the results are a little different to what the member says.Nicola Willis: Is he aware that New Zealand's 1.8 percent decline in GDP per capita in the past two quarters is comparable to the decline that occurred in New Zealand during the absolute peak of the global financial crisis and does he take responsibility for delivering an economy with record inflation rising interest rates a record current account deficit and declining per capita GDP?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I take responsibility for is an economy that is 6 percent larger than it was before COVID has unemployment at 3.4 percent and has debt at a level lower than most of the countries that we compare ourselves to. As the Prime Minister indicated in an earlier question New Zealand's inflation rate has sat around the bottom third of the OECD over the last few years. This is a global inflation process. Many New Zealand households are doing it tough during this period. That's why I'm proud that the Government has supported those households unlike the member's party.David Seymour: Does he believe it's sustainable for GDP to be supported by a $33 billion a year current account deficit or does he admit he's putting the economy on after-pay: borrow now pay next generation?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: New Zealand's current account deficit is a longstanding challenge. I do note in the latest statistics it is starting to come down and it is forecast to continue in that direction.David Seymour: How can he say with a straight face that the current account deficit is a longstanding challenge when the last three quarters under his economic management have been the worst current account deficits since records began under Sir Roger Douglas in 1988?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I point the member to a couple of factors. Firstly we have faced an extraordinary challenge on the supply side of the New Zealand economy which has contributed to that including also higher interest rates globally in addition to the hangover from COVID. Secondly if the member wants to make those kinds of comparisons he should look at New Zealand's international investment position because that was the concern in the last times that we have seen the current account deficit rise in the way that it has in recent years. Actually the advice that I've had is that since 2009 New Zealand's international investment position has been sufficiently strong to in fact counter the impacts of the current account deficit widening.David Seymour: How can he look Kiwis in the eye and blame the current economic performance on the floods the cyclone COVID Vladimir Putin or anyone else that comes to mind when Auckland University economics professor Robert McCulloch recently said that this was blatantly untrue and that he "doesn't know what planet Grant Robertson is on."?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: It's the same planet that Sharon Zollner the chief economist for ANZ is inhabiting because she said the same thing—that actually the quarter's numbers would have been positive if it weren't for the weather events.Nicola Willis: Why does that finance Minister persist in taking credit for positive economic indicators yet refuse all responsibility for every negative indicator and is it in fact the case that when measured by the cost of living per capita GDP and interest rates the standard of living for individual New Zealanders is declining on his watch?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I stand proudly by the record of this Government for taking New Zealand through the greatest economic shock since World War II in a way that has left us at the end with unemployment at 3.4 percent with our economy 6 percent larger with our level of debt at a level that other countries would be proud to have. There have been many decisions to have made over the last few years. None of them were costless. This was a challenge that every county had to face and when we compare ourselves against those countries I believe we can be proud of our record."