Hodgson Pete: Trade Marks (International Treaties and Enforcement) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hodgson Pete: Trade Marks (International Treaties and Enforcement) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:675;Page:21022] 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Labour— 
Dunedin 
 North) :  
That was an outrageous contribution! I think it is time for the Committee to become more aware of the import of this legislation and of the issue of counterfeiting as it affects New Zealand. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: What’s the name of the bill? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: How does it relate to the Trade Marks (International Treaties and Enforcement) Amendment Bill? The whole idea of copyright and trademarks is to deter counterfeiting and to enable people to enforce action against those who would counterfeit. How many infringing items were detained by customs officers in 2004-05 I ask the member opposite. Answer: 185000—185000. How many a day is that? It is 500 counterfeit items seized at the border in any one day by our enforcement agencies. And the member thinks that this legislation should be passed through without due comment on their efforts to sustain the truth and honesty of our merchandising system by ensuring that we have good enforcement of copyright and trademark laws! 
However the problem is not getting any easier. By the following year—2005-06—that figure of 185000 had risen to 260000. Members get the idea that this is a serious issue. What did the Retailers Association have to say? These are the people who hock off this stuff you know. They do not make it; they are at the other end of it. They are the people hocking it off and so that they can lie straight in bed at night they want to hock off only the real McCoy. No counterfeits for them. They want a tough approach to counterfeiting do the retailers. That is a little surprising. I would have thought that the manufacturers and owners and so on were the people who want it to be really tough. I would have thought that the retailers really could not care as long as they get cash for goods if members see what I mean. But no they care all right. 
The association said to the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee that it had “increasing concerns about the growth in counterfeit merchandise …”. It went on to say a little surprisingly I thought: “We are … continually concerned at the personal health and safety risks [that] New Zealanders are subjected to by a vast range of poor quality counterfeit goods …”—this is exploding pyjamas and stuff like that. In fact it went on to say that “these can range from car parts to pharmaceuticals and perfumes”. It did not mention exploding pyjamas but it might have. It did say that it thought that the national enforcement unit the people who are our counterfeit cops and our trademark cops should be given a greater role—indeed this legislation does that—to enable the enforcement of criminal offences and on it goes. 
Interestingly a press statement from 2009 that was mentioned by my colleague Clare Curran has an alternative point of view. Let me tell members what patent attorney Elspeth Buchanan has to say about these matters. “Patent attorney Elspeth Buchanan”—the newspaper tells us breathlessly—“knows how hard it is to tell knock-offs from the real thing.” It then quotes her as saying this: “ ‘I’ve been judging trademark infringements for 40 years professionally’ ”—so Elspeth Buchanan is in her later years—“ ‘and I often can’t tell between the genuine and the fake’ she said.” That is a pity because that is what she is paid for. It is a bit of a shame but anyway there we are. She said that she has devoted her entire life to telling one from the other and she cannot so I just wish her a really happy retirement I do. It is just a shame that she has spent her life not being able to do what she is being paid to do. She said however that sometimes the right-holders cannot achieve that either like the people who own the stuff. The people who made the Rolex could not tell the real Rolex from the other Rolex— 
Hon Steve Chadwick 
: Just drop it on the concrete and you’d know. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: “Just drop it on the concrete” said Steve Chadwick who obviously knows a thing or two about this. Elspeth Buchanan’s point of view is the opposite of that of the retailers even though she is involved in enforcement as well. She said she is worried that “the proposed new enforcers”—this is the national enforcement unit I think—“of trademark and copyright laws” customs officers and Ministry of Economic Development officials “won’t be able to judge the real from the rip-off …”. After all she cannot after 40 years of trying so probably officials will not be able to either—they being mere officials—“but they’ll be thwarting legitimate business while they try.” 
In other words the retailers cannot get on with hocking off the counterfeits because the counterfeits have been seized. They will be some of those 260000 items that are seized every year or at least that was the 2005-06 figure. The article states: “These Government agencies under the new legislation will be able to search for seize and investigate suspected trademark offences. Buchanan”—this is patent attorney Elspeth Buchanan who has been doing this for 40 years—“says that the proposed changes are ‘spectacular’.” I do not know whether she means spectacularly good or spectacularly bad. I think she means spectacularly bad because she goes on to say: “The hit squad”—this is Elspeth Buchanan patent attorney—“from the Ministry of Economy Development will be raiding warehouses for hot copyright infringers leading to criminal prosecution for infringing T-shirts”. She is clearly pretty unhappy. 
She said she had a client who imported exercise gear and missed last year’s Christmas market because a customs officer was unable to make a formal determination on whether the products were counterfeit. It turned out that they were not she said although she said earlier that she had not been able to tell one from the other. The customs officer was unable to make a formal determination because of staffing issues. 
The point is that this patent attorney Elspeth Buchanan is of the view that we might be making too much of a meal about this copyright and trademark stuff and that maybe it is better to let it go through. After all she says we cannot tell one from the other so who gives a damn. She has been trying to do so for 40 years and still she cannot so I say good on her for her frankness. She holds the view that this legislation will hold up business and that there will too much of an impost on the honest trader who wants to flog off a few counterfeit goods because no one can tell one from another. Well not on this side of the Chamber—we do not agree with that. We think Elspeth Buchanan is wrong with a capital “R”. We think that Elspeth Buchanan should stand in favour of action against counterfeiters and people who are cheats and liars and stuff like that. She is a lawyer! She went to a law school and she is letting these cheats and liars off. It is a disgrace. 
We stand with the Government on this bill. We think it is excellent legislation. 
Clare Curran 
: Because we introduced it. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Because we introduced it—which leads me to make another point. I said that I was unsure whether I or Lianne Dalziel had introduced it. Well guess what? Silly old me; neither of us did. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: But nobody cares. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Tau Henare says nobody cares. I care. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Yeah but you’re nobody. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Tau Henare has said that I am nobody. I have been called a nobody by Tau Henare—that is wonderful. 
Hon Simon Power 
: Judith Tizard. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The legislation was introduced by the Hon Judith Tizard. 
David Shearer 
: I wasn’t going to bring that up. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: My colleague was not going to correct me; he should have. That is why I was unsure whether it was me or Lianne because it was neither of us. My honourable colleague Judith Tizard who I believe is within the precincts of the building tonight—I am not sure— 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: Call security. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I cannot hear what Rodney Hide says but it does not matter because he will not be here much longer. I think Judith Tizard is within the precincts of the building. In any case she introduced this legislation which is now I think in the name of the Hon Simon Power who is going the same way as me and not before too long. I now think that in very short order I will resume my seat.