12. Local Government—Auckland Council Spending and InfrastructureJAMI-LEE ROSS (National—Botany) to the Minister of Local GovernmentLocal Government—Auckland Council Spending and Infrastructure12. JAMI-LEE ROSS (National—Botany) to the Minister of Local Government: What steps will she take to support the local government sector to achieve greater efficiency and control spending?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): A step in the right direction. I want to reassure local leaders that I certainly support their ability to make decisions to fund current and future responsibilities in a sustainable way.Jami-Lee Ross: Does she think it sufficient for Auckland Council's spending to have increased by 26 percent in the last four years?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: That's a matter for—Mr SPEAKER: No no sorry. There's no responsibility on the Minister's part for the Auckland Council's rates.Jami-Lee Ross: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Could the member repeat the question so I can just check again.Jami-Lee Ross: Does she think it's sufficient for Auckland Council spending to have increased by 26 percent in the last four years?Mr SPEAKER: No I'm sorry. What the Minister thinks about a matter for which she has no formal responsibility in this case is not in order. Have another go.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister of Local Government answered her primary question by talking about efficiency gains in the local government sector. If she hasn't been thinking about efficiency then how on earth can she possibly make that statement? It's not unreasonable—Mr SPEAKER: It's adjunct to the Auckland Council and I will refer the member in a second to the appropriate Speaker's ruling which doesn't come to mind immediately. Speaker's ruling 161/1: The Minister is not responsible whatsoever for the operational activities or decision making of a local authority. The Minister can be responsible only for any particular actions he"—or she—"might be taking in relation to the local authority or Crown decisions on appointments to council-controlled organisations or Crown investment in those organisations. But matters outside that are certainly not the responsibility of the Minister." Smith 2012.Clayton Mitchell: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The National Party have run out of supplementary questions. They are now currently at 32.Mr SPEAKER: The same as yesterday—I'm not going to rely on the member's counting skills; I'm going to rely on the advice that I am getting because that is the advice that I trust. It is fair to say that we have been too generous to the National Party on one occasion and I apologise to the Government for that. But I'm not going to do a running total and I'm not going to have individual members tell me that I'm wrong.Jami-Lee Ross: What reports has she seen of Auckland Council's spending having increased by 26 percent in the last four years and does she think that's sufficient?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I've seen a number of reports. What I think about local leaders' decision making on matters that concern them is irrelevant. They are acting within their responsibilities as leaders of their region.Jami-Lee Ross: If it's her view that the Auckland Council is acting within their responsibility and they're efficient why is her Government hammering Aucklanders with an 11.5c a litre petrol tax when Auckland Council can't control the spending and the tax will raise less money than the blow-out in the council's wage bill?Mr SPEAKER: No that doesn't get there either. The member's asking for an opinion in an area for which I think we've pretty clearly established from the Speakers' rulings that the Minister doesn't have responsibility to the House for.Jami-Lee Ross: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I've asked the Minister what her steps will be to drive efficiency and I've asked her what reports she's received about efficiency. She answered that question and I used her own words in my question.Hon Tracey Martin: May I speak to the point of order sir?Mr SPEAKER: No there is no point of order. It was a ruling from me.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: The mechanisms that local leaders use to drive efficiencies are matters of their own determination but can I say this: a regional fuel tax is a far more fair way to apportion cost to vehicle users to reduce congestion than an interim transport levy that levies every household across the region irrespective of whether or not they have a car.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister since attaining her job has she received reports on the Auckland super-city that outlined the following things as part of their history: who set it up in the first place second that there was—[Interruption] It could be in the reports. That's what it's about—to get inside the ambit of the Standing Orders. The second thing is that there was a forecast rate crisis because of the unnecessary demand that will be imposed upon them and they are choking from infrastructure over the last four years—referred to by the previous questioner. Can the Minister confirm that that was in the report?Mr SPEAKER: The National Party have just lost two supplementaries because of the interjection during that and it was lucky it was only two.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I can confirm I've received numerous reports that demonstrate certainly over the last four years the previous Government failed to recognise the increasing impact of a housing crisis which inflated costs for ratepayers and the ongoing challenge around meeting infrastructure demands in that region.Paul Eagle: Thanks Mr Speaker. What action has the Minister taken to respond to funding and finance challenges raised by the sector?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Thank you for the question. This is a key priority for the local government sector and I am seeking advice and working through a range of options for Cabinet to consider. It's really important to stress that this Government will work alongside local government towards some real solutions that can make a difference.Paul Eagle: Supplementary.Mr SPEAKER: Can I just say to the member that there's not a requirement in the Parliament to put one's hand up.Paul Eagle: I was just being polite. You were ignoring me and I'm rather large. I'm not the smallest human being.Mr SPEAKER: The member is pretty hard to miss.Paul Eagle: Pretty hard—I even wore a tie to get your attention. Does the Minister have a comprehensive assessment of the current state of asset infrastructure across the country?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: The simple answer is that we don't have enough information about the scale and nature of asset infrastructure across councils to adequately size the scale of the problem. We must do better—we will—than the previous Government and we will engage with them to face the complex issues around infrastructure needs throughout the country.Jami-Lee Ross: Does she expect other councils to approach her to provide them with a bailout given they no longer expect councils to control their own expenditure?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Well I find that a bit of a challenging question. The regions have felt left out for a long time but now they've got a regional development fund that will make a significant difference.Jami-Lee Ross: Supplementary.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: No. I've called Jami-Lee Ross.Jami-Lee Ross: Has the Minister seen any reports on the history of average increases in local government rates in the past 25 years?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I've received a number of briefings on that matter. What I can say is that in the past nine years the previous Government struggled failed neglected to address the increasing pressures of funding and finance for local government. While they're doing nothing about it while they've ignored the regions I'm really pleased that this Government has a regional development fund that will at least send a message: help is on its way.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could the Minister please confirm that she has received reports where the major focus has been on the infrastructural crisis of Auckland and their need to have a Minister of Transport and other Ministers associated with that part of the country that are not just all Brylcreem and no socks? Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Absolutely—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I don't think it was really asking for an answer. Jami-Lee Ross. [Interruption] Two more—[Interruption] Oh no it just went again. Sorry. Jami-Lee Ross: Has the Minister seen any reports that show the highest rates increase across New Zealand in the last 25 years was in 2007 when she was last in that portfolio? Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Let's just start with the past nine years which were the result of neglecting housing issues in Auckland. That has had a consequent impact on a number of regions which has left council leaders and mayors trying to meet the increasing challenge of infrastructure costs and the like. It's important that they hear from this Government—Hon Simon Bridges: Oh point of order—Mr SPEAKER: No. Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: —that we take these issues seriously. They are complex. We will be working with them. Mr SPEAKER: Now—Hon Simon Bridges: Well you haven't even heard it yet.Mr SPEAKER: No I haven't heard it yet and if it was that the—I'm just anticipating that it might have been that the Minister hadn't answered the question. What's really important is that when one's making that point of order one waits until the end of the answer but the member—no sit down. The member anticipated correctly. The Minister did not address the question and she will—I think we might have it repeated so she can hear what it was and we can do it. But can I say to the member: wait until Ministers are finished before taking those points of order. Hon Simon Bridges: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think the issue—I understand it as far as it goes but of course you have also made it very clear and I think rightly that we shouldn't have superfluous material. So on that basis I think there are times when it is—Mr SPEAKER: But that—the member will resume his seat. That's not the point of order that the member was raising. Jami-Lee Ross: Has the Minister seen any reports that show the highest rates increase across New Zealand in the last 25 years was in 2007 when she was last in that portfolio?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: In fact the highest increase in rates was significantly in Auckland as a result of that Government ignoring the housing crisis. Mr SPEAKER: No. I'm actually going to ask the Minister to have yet another go. I'm not going to insist on a yes/no answer but there has to be a response to the question that's been asked. [Interruption] No the member doesn't need to ask it again. We've had it twice. Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: No. Jami-Lee Ross: I have two points of order. Firstly I seek leave to table a document compiled by the Parliamentary Library for my office showing average rates increases since 1993 including 2007. Mr SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There appears to be no objection. It will be. Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Jami-Lee Ross: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In answer to my fourth supplementary about reports she may have received about the history of rates increases she said she's received many reports about that. In answer to my subsequent supplementary which asked about reports regarding 2007 she said "No." It simply cannot be the case that she could say yes to one and no to the other. Mr SPEAKER: No. They are not necessarily inconsistent. The member—I can see there might be a logical problem with it but it's not necessarily inconsistent."