Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 27 September 2012. Volume:684;Page:5747. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
4. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he have confidence in the Minister for the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) given the Prime Minister’s statement that the GCSB unlawfully intercepted communications in relation to Kim Dotcom; if so why? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development) 
 on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes; because as soon as the Minister was made aware of the issues in question he called for an urgent inquiry by the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security and that inquiry report has been released publicly into the House today. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: How can he be confident that the Minister responsible for the GCSB is fulfilling his statutory functions to control the Government Communications Security Bureau under section 8(3) of the Government Communications Security Bureau Act given that the Minister was unaware of the bureau’s involvement in the Kim Dotcom case until last week—a case that began in December of last year? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: It is important to point out the outcome of the report which may assist the member with his— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: We know what the outcome is. Why didn’t he know? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: If Mr Peters knew the outcome he would know that that question was not actually the correct interpretation. Firstly there were two mistakes. The Government Communications Security Bureau originally relied on police information about the residency status of the people in question; it did not check further. Secondly the error was compounded after its operation was concluded simply by a wrong interpretation of the law. Those are two very significant errors that have been identified in the report by the inspector-general. As the member will see the Government Communications Security Bureau is taking action in regard to those matters. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before I call the member for his next question the Minister’s answer did not actually answer the question that was asked. The question asked about the role of the Minister in relation to section 8(3) of the Act in respect of as the member asking the question alleges the control of the Government Communications Security Bureau and how he sort of justifies that requirement of the Act—or how he lines up that requirement of the Act against the claimed unawareness of any involvement of the bureau since November last year or some time. In order to clarify the situation—because I do not want to destroy the member’s question—I think I should invite Dr Russel Norman to repeat his question because these are serious matters. The member has not made any outrageous assertions in his question at all. He has cited the Act. He has asked how the member justifies what has happened given the requirements of the Act. I ask Dr Russel Norman to repeat his question. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: How can he be confident that the Minister responsible for the GCSB is fulfilling his statutory functions to control the Government Communications Security Bureau under section 8(3) of the relevant Act given that the Minister has told us that he was unaware of the bureau’s involvement in the Kim Dotcom case until last week—a case that began in December of last year? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I think that a different way of putting the answer is that the Government Communications Security Bureau was operating under the assumption I think that it did not need to advise its Minister because of its interpretation of the residency status of the person involved. Obviously that has proven to be incorrect. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: How can he be confident in the Minister’s oversight of the Government Communications Security Bureau when the inspector-general of Intelligence and Security in his annual report of 2011 raised concerns about the operation of Government Communications Security Bureau authorisations to intercept communications and so far as we are aware the Minister has never taken any action to follow up with the bureau why the inspector-general has raised these concerns in his last report and what the Minister has done about it? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I am not able to answer that particular element of the member’s question today but what I would point out is that in response to the Government Communications Security Bureau raising the issue and the errors that it has made the Prime Minister moved very swiftly to act on these matters and called an inquiry immediately and that inquiry has reported today. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is the Minister aware that in relation to the Government Communications Security Bureau there is no standard parliamentary select committee oversight and the Official Information Act effectively cannot be applied because the bureau has a defence for not releasing the information under any circumstances so the sole democratic oversight for that organisation lies with the Minister responsible; and does he believe that the Minister responsible is taking that responsibility seriously enough when we find out he does not know about the Kim Dotcom case which started in December? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I think we are all very aware of the unique nature of the Government Communications Security Bureau agency. I think it is indeed indicative of and underlines the Prime Minister’s view of his responsibility in this regard that when the matter was brought to his attention he immediately called an inquiry into that matter. He has advised the public and the inquiry has been reported. I would say that that underlines how seriously he takes his role in this regard. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given that for months the only person in authority in this country who seemed not to know about Kim Dotcom was the Prime Minister— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Not true. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: It is true for God’s sake— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Would the member please just ask his question. [ 
Interruption 
] No order! The member will please ask his question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Well “Young Nick” keeps on shouting out. It is very— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member will just ask his question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I know he wants to get back into Cabinet. Given that for months the only person in authority who did not know about Kim Dotcom or that plush mansion just down the road from the Prime Minister’s electorate office was the Prime Minister why is he settling on a narrow inquiry into just the Government Communications Security Bureau when five other agencies all responsible in some way to him never ever told him? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: All I can do is point out to the member who claimed he had read the report from the inspector-general—but I now have my doubts given his question— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We do not want interpretation from that amateur. The fact is I have got two copies of the report— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member knows that is totally outside the Standing Orders and he is skating on thin ice. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! The member’s question was not the most simple and direct question I have ever heard in the House and the Minister is doing his best I think to answer it. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I bow to the member’s obviously very very long time in the House but my understanding of it is very simple in relation to this matter: the Government Communications Security Bureau made two errors in relation to this particular matter and when it drew them to the Prime Minister’s attention he immediately called an inquiry. I am not quite sure what the member is asserting the Prime Minister should do in this regard but the bureau obviously made a serious mistake which is now being investigated. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: As I do not believe that the Government has tabled this report I seek leave to table the report from the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think that is publicly available right now. We will not bother with that.