Bayly AndrewANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): Thank you Mr Speaker. Well I've listened with much interest to the arguments put forward by the Government members who are clearly not going to support the bill. I do acknowledge ACT for their support. Look I think the reasons put forward—Hon Member: What about the Green Party?ANDREW BAYLY: I'm sorry; I acknowledge the Greens as well. Thank you. I do acknowledge the Greens for their support. But the reasons put forward by the Government members I would say to you are somewhat spurious. What is happening in the market at the moment is that if you want to get rid of stolen goods one option is that you use second-hand dealers to pass those goods on. I'm not saying and I want to be very clear—I'm not implying that all second-hand dealers knowingly trade in stolen goods. They do have certain protections that have just been noted. There are a lot of rules and regulations around it. But none the less there are very clear examples of this happening regularly by certain individuals. This whole initiative was at the request of the police. This is not Andrew Bayly dreaming up something that might need to be done. It came out of a meeting back in 2016 between myself and the Hon Judith Collins talking to our local police. They were the ones who brought to our attention this issue and namely there is one particular issue that they highlighted. At the moment as someone has noted before second-hand dealers are required to keep a list of all goods that come in and who has furnished those goods effectively who they've bought those goods from. What happens now is that a policeman has to drive over to that second-hand dealer—so the time incurred in driving a valuable police car—sit down and record by hand what those transactions have been. That is a ridiculous time-wasting exercise that the police quite rightly brought to our attention. I heard the Government Ministers going on about $450 million spent on helping the front-line police force. This is one of the easiest ways to take policemen and policewomen doing the most mundane jobs and actually getting them out catching the criminals. Because what that officer will have to do is write down all the names and addresses go back and then electronically enter them into a police system and by co-locating and putting that into a database they could then work out who's trading goods.What the police were telling us is there are many many examples of individuals who might be trading across every month up to $20000 by going around various second-hand dealers and just trading a small amount. But when you looked at it across a big region you actually worked out that there were significant traders and in effect they were the outlet for crime. So it was the police who said This is a waste of time. Can you help us stop wasting our time?"The Counties Manukau police had gone to the extent of having a very smart IT person who worked out and created this new platform called Serial Number Automated Checker (SNAC). So the issue and what the bill is about is not about imposing more costs on second-hand dealers because all it now requires of them is to provide the records in an electronic form; it could be by a camera could be by email whatever the case might be. It is not imposing a significant higher amount of compliance costs on second-hand dealers. What it's saying is: please furnish the information in some form of electronic means. And the SNAC system is capable of being able to take various forms of electronic data and put it in and immediately it goes into a system that means you can start tracking these criminals. That is the purpose of this. The second point I'd say to the Government members is that the police actually helped me create the legislation the proposed piece of legislation. I've heard a number of people say it's unclear. Well I think that's a bit of a reflection on the way you perceive the police because the police helped draft this bill."