Baldock Larry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Baldock Larry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:606;Page:3643] 
9.  
LARRY BALDOCK (United Future) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: Is he concerned that New Zealand may be in violation of its international commitments to uphold human rights if the Prostitution Reform Bill is passed; if not why not? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 No this is a matter that has been considered by the New Zealand Human Rights Commission. Its view of the modern approach taken by the United Nations human rights instruments is that they focus on the exploitative elements of prostitution as giving rise to human rights violations rather than on determining that prostitution per se is a violation of human rights. This bill is entirely consistent with that approach. 
Larry Baldock 
: Is the Minister concerned that since New Zealand is a signatory to the United Nations Protocol to Prevent Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons Especially Women and Children supplementing the United Nations Convention Against Transnational Organised Crime the passage of the prostitution law reform may create an environment in New Zealand that is in violation of our obligations under that protocol; if not why not? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: No I am not concerned that would be the case. That particular protocol deals with the trafficking of people including prostitutes where force or coercion is involved or alternatively abduction fraud or deception. In fact the contrary of what the member is saying is true. I believe there is a greater prospect of the use of coercion fraud and trafficking where prostitution remains illegal. In those cases the women who are the victims of that find it harder to take their cases to authorities. 
Tim Barnett 
: Has the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women—CEDAW—expressed a view that the decriminalisation of prostitution is in breach of the convention on that? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The answer to that is also no. That committee emphasises that prostitution poses for women risks of exploitation and violence and whether or not prostitution is legal it is minimising those risks that is the important point. That committee for example has raised the issue with regard to the Swedish model of the risks that forcing prostitution to be clandestine has for trafficking in women. It thinks there are greater risks of trafficking where prostitution is forced to be clandestine.  
Richard Worth 
: Will New Zealand as a party to the United Nations trafficking in persons protocol be exercising its rights of denunciation under article 19 if we become a safe haven for the forced organised travel of prostitutes coming from off shore to take advantage of the freer environment that will be given to them if the Prostitution Reform Bill is enacted? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The Government has been active on a number of fronts to ensure that the appalling crime of trafficking in persons is restricted and we have worked through the Bali conference with other countries to do that. We have worked through greater cooperation between the police forces of the countries of origin and the countries where the women may end up. We will take every step possible to stop the coercion of women into either slave labour or prostitution. 
Peter Brown 
: Noting the Minister’s answer when he referred to the Swedish model does he have evidence that in Sweden there is more trafficking of women than in any other European city or State because those of us who are opposed to prostitution have evidence that the situation is the reverse of that and the trafficking of women has gone down considerably in Sweden? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The matter I was referring to was the concern expressed by the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women that by making prostitution clandestine— 
Peter Brown 
: You raised Sweden. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Yes it was referring to Sweden—that has increased the risk of trafficking in women. The member can shake his head all he likes but I am quoting to him what that committee found. I welcome that member tabling any evidence that he has to the contrary.  
Keith Locke 
: What measures has the Government taken to reduce the incidence of child prostitution? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: In March 2001 this Government passed the Crimes Amendment Bill which brought New Zealand legislation into full compliance with ILO Convention 182 concerning the worst forms of child labour. That legislation made it a criminal offence in New Zealand to be the client of a prostitute under the age of 18. It also prohibited all procuring of children whether male or female for prostitution. Those were two major gaps in the law and this Government has closed them.  
Larry Baldock 
: Is the Minister aware that article 9.5 of the protocol I referred to in my previous supplementary question states that States shall adopt or strengthen legislative and other measures such as educational social or cultural measures to discourage demand that fosters all forms of exploitation of persons especially women and children that leads to trafficking and will the Minister therefore explain how the liberalising of our laws against prostitution will discourage that demand? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I am of course aware of that but the member has brought forward no evidence that the decriminalisation of prostitution in New Zealand would increase the level of trafficking of women into New Zealand for that reason. I repeat to him the concern expressed by the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women that in fact when prostitution is made clandestine it actually increases the prospect of trafficking. That is what the report of that committee states. 
Dail Jones 
: The Minister was referring to a report and I seek that the report be tabled.  
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister can table it if he wishes. The member cannot ask someone else to table a report. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I do not have that report in the House. I can give the member the reference to it so he can find it for himself.