Penk Chris; Allan KiritapuCHRIS PENK (National—Helensville): Thank you very much indeed Mr Chair. It's a pleasure to take a call—I might add finally—on the Families Package (Income Tax and Benefits) Bill Part Deux. I think there's been much—[Interruption] Just to clarify that's the French of that and not a more general expression of reaction to the bill. It seems to me that this bill contemplates the scenario for 2018 but is not very future-looking not very forward-focused at least in respect of the lack of indexing of the winter energy payment.Now I understand that discussion has been had in regard to a different part of the bill on which obviously I will not dwell but it seems to me that we could very readily even from a drafting perspective replicate some of the ideas behind that but I do want to expand into some new territory about different ideas that I would respectfully offer to the Minister. I would welcome his comments on whether each of those in his opinion has merit in the form of a Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) or otherwise. In fact it would be in the form of an SOP if it were to be adopted as an amendment so my suggestion at that point would be that I could quickly draft it up for him. I know that this is about energy saving or at least it should be as my colleague Erica Stanford has pointed out. So I would like to save some energy of the finance Minister by giving him some assistance with re-drafting along those lines.So then in relation to the possibility of indexing the amounts that are later recorded in the bill possibilities would include indexing to the consumer price index all goods commonly known affectionately as inflation of course. In relation to that though I would point out that if such a suggestion were to be adopted by the Minister he contemplates some sort of ratchet clause so that rather than merely the movement in the consumer price index it would be an increase if any in the consumer price index. It would be a perverse outcome indeed if the amount of the winter energy payment as defined were to be reduced over time by reason of deflation.Other options include perhaps indexing the amount that would payable to a person or persons according to the increase in average energy costs. I know from my albeit brief time so far on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee that the energy sector is very much one of moving feasts as I suppose we could characterise it. So there are lots of different factors at play and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that energy costs from year to year could increase substantially. It seems to me sensible at least to contemplate—and so I ask the Minister to do so—that the payment should increase accordingly if indeed its intention is to provide coverage for energy payments that will be incurred by persons who qualify for the bill.Other options would include of course indexing to housing costs more generally. I think it's accepted pretty widely that housing costs are a major component of household expenditure. To the extent that Part 2 of this bill is focused on addressing that it seems to me that energy as a component of housing costs should again potentially increase if housing costs more generally were to increase.Other options of course would be to link a percentage increase—again an increase as opposed to a decrease in the event that other levels of payments were to reduce. We could perhaps index it to the increase of the relevant benefit which would see the person qualifying for the winter energy payment. So if for example they were on a standard superannuation type of arrangement if that were to increase by a certain amount as indeed the law and other statutes already provide for then the winter energy payment could increase commensurately.Finally and again directing a suggestion and by implication a question to the Minister it would also be possible to index an increase in this—again I emphasise an increase as opposed to going backwards—to the average wage. So the median wage or the mean wage—either way of course the relevant Minister of Employment doesn't seem to know it but that would be a useful thing for him to know and for you to base an increase on.KIRITAPU ALLAN (Assistant Whip—Labour): I move That the question be now put.