12. Question No. 12—Social Development and EmploymentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 12—Social Development and Employment12. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many people if any had received jobseeker support for three consecutive years or longer as at the December 2021 quarter and how many people if any had received jobseeker support for three consecutive years or longer as at the December 2017 quarter?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment) (remote): In December 2017 there were 36906 people receiving jobseeker assistance for longer than three years; in December 2021 that number was 55116—a difference of 18210. We have been enduring a pandemic and the overall numbers of people on benefit have gone up and as you can imagine that means in each time period the number of people on benefit have gone up as well. There are a group of New Zealanders who struggle to find employment during periods of economic shock and are further disadvantaged. This is why Government has increased our focus on getting people back into work and we are seeing great results—more people moved off the benefit and into work in 2021 than any time since the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) began taking electronic records in 1996.Hon Louise Upston: Why are almost 6 percent of working-age adults on the jobseeker benefit almost twice the official unemployment rate when local businesses like supermarkets are crying out for workers?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: One of the areas that we had to contend with when we came into Government was the area of upskilling and training for New Zealanders who were struggling to find employment. On the front line there'd been a reduction of MSD work-focused case management given that the front line was dealing more and more with hardship and hadn't been given the resourcing that they needed to be able to support people—not only into the immediate employment that was available but the upskilling and training that they might need to get into employment. Since we've got into Government we have focused on that investment making sure that those on benefit do have access to upskilling and training and employment and it's paying off. We're seeing—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member's answer is too long.Hon Louise Upston: Why are 6 percent of working-age adults on jobseeker when Stuff reports today that some kiwifruit companies are offering pay of up to $60 an hour?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Firstly can I say that that would not be the norm for the kiwifruit picking or horticulture industry. I think that that would be the exception. With regards to some of those employment areas it's not easy with regards to the geographical location for some of the people that are unemployed to be able to get there. Even within the horticulture industry they do need a level of skill that they don't always have and we do hear that from the horticulture sector. We're working with that sector to provide them and support them to get the employees that they need and we're very hopeful that we will be able to do that over the course of the season.Hon Louise Upston: Can she explain how at a time the Government is celebrating low unemployment and jobs are offering at $60 an hour 36000 more children are growing up in benefit-dependent homes?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think we need to reflect on what was forecast initially a couple of years back: we have not reached the peak of beneficiary numbers that had been anticipated and that's due to the economic focus and health focus that we have had as a Government. Just last week we saw benefit numbers come down under 350000; there are over—I think—25000 less on benefits than there were this time last year. With the investment that we are making we are tracking in the right direction and we are supporting New Zealanders into employment more than ever more than any other Government has done since electronic records were kept.Hon Chris Hipkins: Does the Minister believe that characterising people on benefits as pretty damned hopeless" or more recently as "bottom feeders" does anything to get them into meaningful employment?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Absolutely not. And that has been one of the shameful parts of our political history—that we have used beneficiaries as political footballs during political cycles. It does nothing to empower or support those whānau to get ahead. We won't be doing that as a Government; we will continue to invest in them in the way that we have been. We see the potential of people on benefit and know that investing in them is investing in their children.Hon Louise Upston: If she sees the potential of people on benefit why is it that there are 116000 on jobseeker that have been stuck there for over a year—an increase of almost 50000 long-term unemployed under her watch?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think it's important to reflect on some of our policies and how in that context they are actually helping people get ahead. One of those policies is actually lifting the abatement threshold so that people can earn a little bit more money—they may keep their benefit but they get to work a few more part-time hours without losing money. That's really important because we see part-time employment as a pathway to full-time employment. Also if there are women that are on benefit but they are getting tertiary-level education because we actually reintroduced the Training Incentive Allowance then I'm not ashamed of that and that will help them and their children get ahead.Mark Cameron: Does the Minister stand by her statement "even the horticultural industry requires some skill"?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Absolutely. And they say it themselves that they need a level of skill amongst the employees that they support. And so we continue to work with them and there are a number of supports and products in place where MSD can provide support for that occurring. That has resulted into people going into those jobs. But I do recognise the strain that they're feeling not necessarily just because of the domestic labour force but because of the lack of people that are here on visitor's visas and a range of other things. But we do see the light on the horizon and we'll continue to work with them."