Cunliffe David: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeCunliffe David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 05 November 2015. Volume:709;Page:7743. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour—New Lynn) to the Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment: On what date was he or his office first notified that Agribusiness Training Limited was seriously under-delivering its contracted teaching hours and/or receiving funds to which it had not been entitled?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment): Actually there are three key dates that I can provide to the members. As the member knows there were six tertiary education organisations that were specifically chosen for focused reviews late last year. No substantive issues were found with five of the six reviews but on 22 January this year the Tertiary Education Commission advised me that the Agribusiness Training Limited targeted review indicated there could be significant under-delivery of teaching hours of the sample programmes reviewed. The Tertiary Education Commission then engaged Deloitte to investigate Agribusiness Training Limited’s programmes between 2009 and 2014 and I was advised of its findings after Deloitte reported to the Tertiary Education Commission on 19 May 2015—I think I was advised in June. Finally having provided the findings to Agribusiness Training Limited itself for a response the Tertiary Education Commission requested repayment on 23 September this year and I was advised on or around this date.Hon David Cunliffe: Given that answer why did the Minister not disclose to Parliament the name or the nature of the issues at Agribusiness Training Limited when he had known for months about the issues?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: In the interests of natural justice I think it is important to see that the Tertiary Education Commission has the opportunity to engage with the provider and then inform me and then I was in a position to inform the House.Hon David Cunliffe: Why then was public announcement of the liquidation of Agribusiness Training Limited delayed several days until the Friday afternoon after Parliament had risen for the last adjournment—or was that just coincidence?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I reject the insinuation in the member’s question but the point is that actually the liquidation of Agribusiness Training Limited came I believe as a surprise to both the Tertiary Education Commission and my office and actually the decision was taken to make a public announcement earlier in response to the liquidation. It was not a situation where the liquidation was delayed in any way shape or form. We were advised that it was liquidated and once the liquidation was announced we then proceeded to inform the public of some of the detailsas quickly as possible.Hon David Cunliffe: Given the considerable delays since the Minister was first notified of the problems with Agribusiness Training Limited on 22 January what action has been taken to prevent students from being left in the lurch with unfinished qualifications because of the failure of this private training establishment or to transfer them to other equivalent providers without loss of credit; if this has not been achieved for all students why not?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Again I think the member is mischaracterising that particular January date. I have actually been through in my primary answer the order of events that occurred. In terms of the liquidation and the impact of that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority does have a process which is a very well-organised process to protect the interests of students. As I understand there is still to be a decision from the liquidator as to whether the organisation will continue to trade. Both the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the Tertiary Education Commission are continuing to work very closely not only with that organisation but also with other organisations that may be needed in order to provide further education for the learners to ensure that the things the member is worried about do not actually come to pass.Hon David Cunliffe: When the Tertiary Education Commission selected a sample of providers to be investigated by Deloitte and PricewaterhouseCoopers what was the threshold for their third criterion—being “high numbers of course and qualification completion rates”—and how many providers in fact meet that threshold?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The criteria for the six focused reviews were that the providers had some features in common with those found at Te Whare Wānanga o Awanuiārangi and the Western Institute of Technology at Taranaki. Those were rapid growth of individual courses coupled with unusually high completion rates and a high reliance on subcontracted provisioning. So it was the three things taken together that determined the level of interest in a focused review.Hon David Cunliffe: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wish to draw to your attention the overdue reply to—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can I just—Hon David Cunliffe: —written parliamentary question 133242015 to Minister Joyce in relation to—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! I will look into the matter.Tracey Martin: If Agribusiness Training and Taratahi Agricultural Training Centre have been proven to show provider rorts how confident is he that other providers are not rorting immigration given that 47000 foreign students have obtained residency here since 2008?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I think it is a very big stretch for the member to say that just because a number of students have obtained residency in New Zealand there is by definition fraud. We actually have around 109000 international students studying in New Zealand every year and some of them do go on to obtain residency and—Tracey Martin: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I heard what the question was. Would the member please show courtesy by giving the Minister time to answer it? Hon Steven Joyce—to complete the answer.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I do not think it is unreasonable that there might be that sort of number over that period given the number of students who are studying here. I would add for the member that actually many of these students go on to make a considerable contribution to New Zealand—including sometimes marrying the locals.