SpeechHon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Justice): Mālō e lelei Madam Chair. Can I thank both Mr Court and Dr Kerekere for their very thoughtful contributions to the debate. Can I begin by addressing Dr Kerekere and Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 125 as I did in my opening remarks in this debate. We do believe that getting definitions for those three aspects is very important but we do believe given that we think they need quite a bit of attention that we'd do that in a very full way and that we could undertake that as part of a wider review of the Human Rights Act. So I guess in very plain English we'd want to do that with a measure twice cut once" approach as opposed to trying to undertake that effort as part of the Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill that is before us which we obviously want to make sure was passed through this House in order for the protection of the rainbow community to become law as soon as possible. So I hope that the concerns that the member has which have seen her put forward the SOP is on the radar of the Government to make sure that we address those definitions long term.Can I acknowledge Mr Court too who was speaking to his colleague's SOPs the SOPs in the name of Nicole McKee. While it was Mr Court addressing the committee today can I acknowledge Nicole McKee. Whenever we have debated in this House I have found her very thoughtful and her suggestions—while we may not agree with them—are always delivered in a way that I think is always designed to try and make a piece of legislation as good as it possibly can be. While I can't please the ACT Party in this instance I would note in terms of the SOP around trying to put in the bill a review that—I again stress that bills become law and can change. The Human Rights Commission through its function through the civil redress system the New Zealand Police through statistics and other data it can collect and other qualitative things it can collect and also the Ministry of Justice through its stewardship process of making sure that our laws are appropriate will be able to undertake essentially a review of the legislation. We want to make sure that it works for the very same reasons that the ACT Party does and if I am reading the tea leaves correctly while they may have concerns which has led to these two SOPs it sounds like the ACT Party will probably support this piece of legislation further. I don't want to presume or assume that but I acknowledge their support up until this point as such anyway.The other SOP in Nicole McKee's name is around conversations between parents and children. Can I again reiterate and reinforce clause 5(2) which through subclauses (b) to (e) goes to the very heart of what is not a conversion practice and actually goes to the heart of what Mr Court was outlining—again in a very thoughtful way—because the purpose of this bill is to ensure that we are promoting respectful and open discussions regarding sexuality and gender. I think we all collectively want to agree to that but through clauses 5(2)(b) to (e) in terms of those conversations that pertain to the SOP there are certainly protections within this bill to ensure that those conversations continue to happen in an open and a respectful way. In clause 5(2) "(b) assisting an individual who is undergoing or considering undergoing a gender transition; or (c) assisting an individual to express their gender identity; or (d) providing acceptance support or understanding of an individual; or (e) facilitating the individual's coping skills development or identity exploration or facilitating social support for the individual;" are all carved out in the bill as it stands as things that are not a conversion practice. Again I think that goes to give confidence to some people who may have concerns—and certainly there were submissions to that end—that those conversations can happen and they can happen in an open and respectful way to assist people who are going through these issues and who need support and who will be safe to do so in the knowledge that this bill carves out that for them in a space in order for them to do that."