Parker DavidHon DAVID PARKER (Labour): I think we should actually—when we get to the subsequent readings of this bill—change this to the Kick the Can Down the Road On Fluoridation Bill" because we know in this House as well-informed members of Parliament that after many decades of fluoridation in our major cities there is no evidence whatsoever of an adverse health effect caused to the many hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in New Zealand who are already drinking fluoridated water and have been doing so for decades now. There is not one shred of evidence that they as populations are suffering an adverse health effect from their water being fluoridated. There is ample evidence from New Zealand and around the world that all of those populations are obtaining a health benefit from better teeth and an economic benefit from lower dentist bills.So upon that basis why is the Government kicking this down the road and adding to compliance costs at a regional level by requiring a separate decision to be taken in every district health board (DHB) in New Zealand rather than the Government acting in the interests of all New Zealanders and taking the decision on the basis of science—not witchcraft not scaremongering; on the basis of science—that we are satisfied that water in New Zealand should be fluoridated? Because that is the choice. The Government could today be passing legislation that says all municipal water supplies over a certain size—if you want to have a tiny threshold for the tank on the hill that might cost a bit—should be fluoridated. All large municipal water supplies should be fluoridated. If we were not satisfied that it was safe for district health boards to say that they can enforce fluoridation if we did not think it was safe for them to do so we would not be letting them do so. Given that we are satisfied that it is safe to give the discretion to district health boards to do so why can we not just say it is safe for New Zealand populations to have fluoridated water?Why are we kicking this down the road? Well it is because the Government has not got the political courage to protect the interests particularly of those people who cannot afford to go to a dentist if they get rotten teeth. We have not got a Government that is willing to act in the interests of New Zealanders. This adds unnecessary compliance costs. We will see people—some of the nutty people in our society—standing up and running for election onto district health boards on a non-fluoridation ticket. That is what this bill is inflicting upon New Zealanders. This bill could go so much further and actually solve once and for all this problem of a local unscientific approach to the fluoridation of water. On this principle next the Government will be going out there and saying that it is a matter of discretion for the local hospital boards as to whether they let their doctors prescribe antibiotics. How nonsensical would that be? Let us just get on and make a decision in New Zealand that we should be fluoridating water. This is at one level better than the current situation in that we cannot even enforce this at a DHB level rather than a council level but why can we not just take the obvious decision and say that all water should be fluoridated?At this time I think we should also consider what would be—this is effectively a form of mouthwash is it not? Well in this time of uncertainty in New Zealand politics I wonder what would be the approach of different leaders of the National Party to this? I suspect that if it was Bill English we would have "Ye Olde Fashioned Fluoridation Recipe". It would date back to 1990 which is when he came into Parliament in his 20s. We would be expected to put up with a very old recipe being used again. I am not sure that is right. I think that there have been a few developments since 1990 and that there must be a better answer for the future of New Zealand than ye olde fashioned mouthwash.Of course Steven Joyce's option would be even dimmer. He would actually just put it out amongst his friends. He would actually want to see which of his crony capitalist mates would actually help him the most if he introduced some form of support for the sale of mouthwash on a corporate basis. I think that we would have the crony capitalism mouthwash if it was Steven Joyce. Judith Collins—she would import it from China.Kris Faafoi: Acid.Hon DAVID PARKER: Acid my colleague says. No it would not be acid but I think it would be the Oravida mouthwash and it would be imported into the New Zealand market with the assistance of Chinese border officials. There would not be much chance for a New Zealand - produced mouthwash to cure this problem. Then of course the westie mouthwash from Paula Bennett—well it would not really matter. None of her constituents would get it because they are living in cars without tap water so that would not be a very suitable solution either.We will have to look forward to see—I do not know what Jonathan Coleman would do. Hopefully Jonathan Coleman would actually apply a bit of medical rigour here and actually overturn this decision. Given that he is the Minister of Health he could already have done this but you would hope that if he had a little bit more power higher up the tree he would take a rational science-based decision and at least say as a doctor that he was convinced that there were on the basis of millions of people already having fluoridated water in New Zealand no adverse health effect from the low doses of fluoride that you need to prevent tooth decay which are not adverse to other aspects of health.Of course if you drink pure fluoride you die. It is a poison in those concentrations. But at the low concentrations that are needed to improve oral health for your teeth there is no adverse effect and if it were otherwise it would be proven around the world by now given that millions of people already have been if you like experimenting on fluoridated water for decades so far. So I would hope that Jonathan Coleman would take a science-based approach. Obviously he is not because this bill has been through his office and has his support in kicking the can down the road and leaving it to health boards rather than this Government showing leadership.I tell you what: really after 8 years in Government you do have to conclude that a Government has run out of ideas when its idea for fixing the fact that we have got populations that are not getting fluoride in their water is not to make them put fluoride in the water but to kick the can down the road and leave the decision to someone else. The Government is so timid in respect of matters like this that it will not take the obvious decision and conclude for itself on the basis of the advice that it obviously had from the health officials that fluoridation of water does not cause adverse health effects—because if it had not had that advice it would not be giving the power to district health boards to fluoridate their water. It has obviously had the advice that there is no adverse health effect of fluoridating water for dental health and yet it will not say that all population-level house supplies ought to be fluoridated.If there are some people out there who have their own view as to why they think that they are different I think they are wrong but of course no one is forcing them to drink the water. No one is forcing them to not filter the water or to distil the water if they are one of those people who have that strongly held view. But the Government should not allow the interests of the more than 99 percent of the population whose health we can improve to be held hostage by a few people who are being unscientific bringing forward illogical arguments that are not grounded in fact when in fact we have had this experiment around the world and in New Zealand for decades. Millions and millions of people around the world are getting the benefit of fluoridation with absolutely no credible evidence that there is an adverse health effect as a consequence.The Labour Party will be supporting this bill but the Government could solve the underlying problem instead of kicking the can down the road to health boards."