Mooney Joseph; Parker DavidJOSEPH MOONEY (National—Southland): Thank you very much Madam Chair. Minister I want to just go to water conservation orders and ask you some questions around that. But I'm just going put it in context and ask you about the minimum flow levels as it relates to this of the Manuherikia River which I know the Minister will be well familiar with. The Manuherikia River as the Minister probably knows was once a massive lake that covered all of Central Otago. It was fringed with gum trees and ringed by salty mudflats. Fossil records show the lake was home to crocodiles and flightless burrowing bats; the surrounding river delta [was] a feeding ground for ancient wading birds related to flamingos and Squawkzilla the largest known parrot to ever exist." Fast forward a few tens of millions of years to today and the Manuherikia River starts high in the snow-capped Hawkdun and St Bathans ranges flowing down to the Falls Dam finished in 1935—about 92 years ago by my calculation—and then carries on about 85 kilometres down to Alexandra where it joins the Clutha the country's largest river.Unlike most other rivers the Manuherikia starts by collecting the snowmelt from the Hawkdun and St Bathans Ranges and then it carries on and it doesn't really get much other water. Most rivers collect more water as they go as they collect water coming into catchments. However the area where the Manuherikia River flows through in Central Otago is very very dry. In fact they call it in some places "the Middle East"—in fact it's the driest place in the country. So it creates a bit of a unique conundrum where it actually needs to collect most of its water at the top which is why the Falls Dam was constructed back in 1935. I've spoken to some old-timers who said that pre the construction of that there were times when the river ran dry completely so that dam forms a very important function.I note when I look at clause 378 in terms of water conservation orders that a water conservation order can provide for a whole lot of things: " the preservation as far as possible in its natural state of a water body that is considered to be outstanding" "as a habitat for terrestrial or aquatic organisms" "as a fishery" "for its wild scenic or other natural characteristics" "for its scientific and ecological values" "for recreational historical cultural or spiritual purposes" and "the protection of characteristics that a water body has or contributes to and that are considered to be of outstanding significance in accordance with tikanga Māori."What I don't see any mention of there Minister is its economic value for the community. I note that the Central Otago District Council had an independent analysis made of this previously and noted that if there were to be a minimum flow level of about 3000 litres per second—I think it is—that would be equivalent to reducing the income from farming across Central Otago by some 50 percent compared to the status quo. That would be a very significant matter for that region and I'm curious as to why this consideration has not been put in there as something that must be considered or should be considered as part of a water conservation order.Hon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment): I actually claim some expertise in water conservation orders. I've done a lot of the water conservation orders that there are in New Zealand including on all of the tributaries of the Wakatipu including the Mataura River and including the Ahuriri and a number of other catchments around New Zealand. So I know a lot about them. There is no water conservation application in respect to the Manuherikia. I also know a lot about that river and indeed when I'm in a position in a place where Māori mention their whakapapa and the rivers that they most closely identify with I actually choose two rivers: the Waikouaiti River and the Manuherikia River which I camp next to most years.I also know the history of its mismanagement as a water body that is a shame on the reputation of the Resource Management Act (RMA) that goes back for 30 years. And I can attest to that because the year that the RMA came into effect—around 1992—I went to a meeting in a woolshed close by the river at Mr Rutherford's house with the late Jim Guthrie. We were explained how there was a 30-year transition for what used to be called "mining privileges" which became "deemed permits" under the RMA which were meant to transition into RMA water consents and therefore enable an effective minimum flow on the Manuherikia River whatever that flow ought to be. And I don't actually have a strong view as to what the minimum flow ought to be on that river. I'm actually more interested in water quality outcomes. Sadly after 30 years of transition started in 1992 the regional council dropped the ball down there and didn't transition in the deemed water permits and therefore actual water abstraction during a period when environmental outcomes that should have been getting better got worse because the actual amount of water being sucked out of the river actually increased each year and farmers became more dependent on unsustainable levels of utilisation sucked out of the main stem of that river. I know a lot about that as you can hear but this bill doesn't affect it."