8. Question No. 8—Regional Economic DevelopmentHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister for Regional Economic DevelopmentQuestion No. 8—Regional Economic Development8. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: Does he stand by all his statements and actions?Hon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Economic Development): Yes.Hon Paul Goldsmith: How does he stand by his statement in reply to my written question regarding Manea Footprints of Kupe project I raised my conflict of interest with the Cabinet Office in November [2018] and indicated I would not be involved in any decision to grant funding to the project under the Provincial Growth Fund." when it has now emerged that he provided reassurance to the Minister of Finance on the project?Hon SHANE JONES: I stand by the remarks that the member has recited. My attendance at the meeting provided some factual reassurance to the other Ministers and I think that the member is making a mountain out of a molehill.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is it right that he declared a conflict of interest but not only stayed in the room but also participated in the decision making by reassuring the Minister of Finance?Hon SHANE JONES: The member is distorting the facts. The member has not stayed with the true line of what happened. I attended a meeting with other Ministers. I did not influence. I did not sign off the decision. I simply did what other members on the other side of the House have done from time to time: remained in a meeting but not signing or making the decision.Hon Paul Goldsmith: How is providing assurances on the quality of a project's governance not advocating for a project?Hon SHANE JONES: Obviously after having shown excessive prudence and identifying a historical connection with personalities with that project and informing the Cabinet Office it does not mean that I am voiceless or tongueless. I did not make the decision after having myself indicated to other Ministers my historic conflict of interest. The interest of course is promoting the region of the north.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he accept given the wide connection he says he has throughout Northland that he has to be very careful about perceived conflicts of interest while handing out $100 million to people and groups he knows in that region?Hon SHANE JONES: Well I can't unwind 59 years of a varied wide and rich life. And the reality is that there are a host of associations as a senior Māori leader that I've had. One of those associations was with the Hokianga rangatira Whetu Ngaira and a long-term connection with a host of other identities in Hokianga. Now whether it was excessively circumspect on my part at the time—but it is what it is.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister did he as the Minister ever have a formal role with a Manea/Kupe Ltd project?Hon SHANE JONES: No.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Then what was the conflict?Rt Hon Winston Peters: So what's the conflict? Go on tell us! SPEAKER: Order!—the pair of you.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why declare—Rt Hon Winston Peters: Go on Billy!Hon Paul Goldsmith: —a conflict of interest if it's not going—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! The Deputy Prime Minister will stand withdraw and apologise.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I withdraw and apologise.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why does the Minister declare a conflict of interest if it's not going to make any difference to how he acts in terms of advocating for the project?Hon SHANE JONES: I think the first part of the member's question is sensible: why declare a conflict of interest? And I am interested in what the Herald had to say where it doubts whether or not I should have ever declared a conflict of interest; however that's now historical fact and I did attend a meeting where other Ministers were aware of the historical association that I have adverted to.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister did he ever sign off on funding for the project?Hon SHANE JONES: Those decisions were taken by other Ministers.Hon Paul Goldsmith: How can Kiwis have confidence that the $100 million he spent in Northland a region that he knows well he knows a lot of people; where he declares a conflict of interest but he stays in the room and advocates for the project—that he has any concept of how to handle a conflict of interest?Hon SHANE JONES: Well obviously the point at which one identifies a substantial conflict of interest largely lies in one's own ethics; and secondly people know that I as a member hailing from the North have wide and varied associations. Just because I am willing to advocate for the provinces the other side of the House should try to stop this character assassination because of my good work.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Minister with respect to the chronology of events was it a fact that he was in a room after the project had been signed off not before?Hon SHANE JONES: As I said I was in the room. I was with other Ministers. I did not sign the project off. I have acknowledged in my discussions with the Prime Minister as to the appropriateness of staying in the room out of the room and obviously the experience that I grew up with professionally was the Institute of Directors and I am reviewing my knowledge about the Cabinet Manual.Hon Paula Bennett: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I thought that the member asked a very good question. It'd be appreciated if the Minister actually answered whether he was in the room before or after the decision was made.SPEAKER: Well I think he said both actually—if you translate it."