Bennett David: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeBennett David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 17 February 2016. Volume:711;Page:9060. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]2.DAVID BENNETT (National—Hamilton East) to the Minister of Finance: What steps is the Government taking to support vulnerable households and families?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance): The Government is focused on reducing long-term dependency on public services by getting better results for vulnerable households and families and we are seeing results. For example the Government delivered a $790 million child hardship package—part of last year’s Budget—which raised benefit rates for families with children by $25 a week from 1 April this year the first increase above inflation since 1972. The Government lifted student allowances for families with children and it increased childcare assistance rates for low-income families targeting 160000 families with 300000 children. That is in addition to measures taken in Budget 2014 which delivered a $500 million package covering paid parental leave extended parental tax credits children’s teams and additional support for early childhood.David Bennett: How is the Government helping to ensure that the benefits of a growing economy are being shared by vulnerable families?Hon BILL ENGLISH: The rising tide lifts all boats. The economy is growing. We are one of the few developed countries with sustainable economic growth and that is flowing through to our families. In Budget 2015 we increased obligations for those on a benefit to be available for work and increased the support for parents finding work. In addition the Government has extended free GP visits to under 13s breakfast in all schools that want it social workers in all low-decile primary schools and has raised the minimum wage every year since 2008.Jacinda Ardern: Was the Children’s Commissioner wrong when he stated this morning that “we don’t have a plan for poverty we don’t have targets for poverty. It’s much bigger than getting people off benefits when the minimum wage is $15 an hour.”?Hon BILL ENGLISH: We actually do disagree with the Children’s Commissioner on that matter. The Government has a broad-ranging programme including lifting the lowest incomes in New Zealand—the incomes Labour did not lift in 9 years of reasonable economic growth—through to long-term changes in Government services which when run badly create dependency rather than reduce it.David Bennett: How are the Government’s Better Public Services targets increasing transparency and accountability to deliver better results for New Zealanders?Hon BILL ENGLISH: The Better Public Services targets are unique because no previous Government has published indicators of our social sustainability in the way that this Government has and then reported against them regularly. Our Government has confidence in the integrity of this process. Statistics New Zealand provides advice to agencies to ensure that the data is robust. Many of the Better Public Services measures incorporate or in fact are tier-one official statistics which are the most important and rigorous statistics overseen by the standards set by Statistics New Zealand. We welcome independent external scrutiny such as that in the Salvation Army report which I would say is way ahead of the scrutiny that has been applied by the Labour Party.David Bennett: What recent reports has he received showing progress across a range of social indicators under the Government?Hon BILL ENGLISH: The most recent one is the Salvation Army report released earlier today which shows good progress across many but not all of the results. The number of children living on benefits has fallen by 24 percent to the lowest level since 1998; the number of children facing material hardship has fallen by 11 percent on one measure and 31 percent on another; substantiated abuse including emotional abuse has fallen by 26 percent; the number of working-age benefits paid has fallen by 15 percent; infant mortality is down by 22 percent; and pregnancy among 15 to 19-year-olds is down by 36 percent. That is according to the Salvation Army report.Metiria Turei: Tēnā koe Mr Speaker. Tēnā koutou e te Whare. How many of the children whose parents and caregivers have moved off benefits under his Better Public Services targets are still living in poverty?Hon BILL ENGLISH: That would depend of course on what measure out of the many the member uses to measure the income or the hardship status of those children. The Government tends to use a range of measures one of which is the children in hardship measure and I could go and find out for the member. But generally for families one of the best things a parent can do to move their child out of hardship is to get work. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The level of those sorts of interjections coming from my left-hand side has to settle down.Metiria Turei: Does he agree with the Salvation Army report’s critique—he just referred to that report—that the Better Public Services targets are being used by Government “in a less than straightforward and reliable manner” which risks poverty-related policies being “fundamentally misconceived”?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No I do not agree with that assertion. In fact that is not borne out by the report. The report refers to two particular numbers where the Salvation Army raises questions. They are legitimate questions; they are questions we would want to see answered. We encourage independent scrutiny of all the numbers. In fact the Government will tomorrow be releasing even more data to make it available to people like those in the Salvation Army precisely so that they can monitor how the Government uses the information bearing in mind that no measurement system is perfect. These are proxies for what we are trying to achieve and that is improved welfare for our most challenged most vulnerable families. The Salvation Army report shows overall some progress in that respect.Metiria Turei: How does the Minister then explain the fact that the number of children—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The same ruling I have just given to the left-hand side applies to Mr Brownlee. I cannot hear the supplementary question when there is an interchange going across the two sides of the Chamber. If Mr Robertson and Mr Brownlee want to have a discussion they are welcome to leave and have it in the lobby.Metiria Turei: How does the Minister then explain the fact that the number of children living in benefit-dependent homes is decreasing but the number of children living in poverty—under those measures—is the same?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Again you would have to look at the particular measure the member is applying and I am happy to do that if she can tell us what measure that is. But in general families are better off in work not just because of the income but because of the greater social cohesion that comes with being able to realise some aspiration having connections in a workplace and building a bit of a community and some order into families who on benefit often lack direction and structure in their lives. So we will continue to pursue the policy of encouraging and supporting people getting off benefit and into work.