Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:632;Page:4123] 
12.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: How much debt is currently owed by foreign nationals to district health boards and how much of this debt has been written off in the past 12 months? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 In the coming financial year the Ministry of Health will provide $2.6 million to cover the cost of bad debts to district health boards. This includes cover for ineligible patients. I am advised that this figure is about half the total cost. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: How much is owed to district health boards by foreign nationals currently; and would the Minister in answering that question—the Minister having had notice of the question since well before 11 o’clock—confirm the total of $7 million publicly revealed by seven district health boards? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I have tried to give the member the best information I have and I will try to put it succinctly. The debt appears to be of the order of $5 million a year of which the Ministry of Health pays about half. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: It’s already $6 million. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Well it depends on whether the member has more than 1 year in his figures. The debt is concentrated substantially in the three Auckland district health boards with a little bit in Tai Rawhiti as well. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: How can the public have any confidence that the Minister realises New Zealanders are missing out on much-needed care because of illegal immigrants getting operations in public hospitals when he has not even bothered to make rudimentary inquiries about the sheer scope of that debt across the country—a matter that has been repeatedly raised with him by district health boards? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The fact of the matter is that not all district health boards send this information in centrally. I will say to the member that our best guess is that the figure is of the order of $5 million a year. However I say also that any person who is acutely unwell in this country and goes to a New Zealand hospital will receive treatment without question. It is unethical not do that and we will continue to do that because this Government is a compassionate one and this country has some compassion—and if the last train to compassion has just left the National Party then that is that party’s problem. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Is the Minister aware that people with hepatitis B hepatitis C renal failure HIV and cancer have been granted residency by Immigration New Zealand and have subsequently turned up on the doorstep of the Auckland District Health Board looking for treatment at the taxpayer’s expense; if so has he discussed this matter with the Minister of Immigration? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The member will be aware that the Government’s immigration rules not only are strong but also have recently been tightened. She is correct to point out that some people who are recent immigrants to New Zealand rock up with expensive health conditions but we need to look a little more closely. Some of these people were granted permanent residency before they developed their condition and others were granted permanent residency for compassionate reasons—such as the woman who ended up on the front page of the  
Sunday Star-Times 
. That woman was 7 months pregnant. Her child will turn 4 in 2 months from now and he has a mother. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: How many New Zealanders would be spared being culled in the Minister’s culling of hospital waiting lists if the Government would only enforce its own immigration rules instead of—as happens at the moment—allowing illegal immigrants to use our valuable tax dollars for elective surgery under the Minister’s sloppy and ineffective system? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: If the total cost is $5 million—I have not in the time been able to confirm that but it is of that order—then we are dealing with a situation in which of every $1000 spent on health in this country about 50c goes on bad debt. That is the perspective the member should keep in mind. I will say again that any person—tourist illegal overstayer or whoever—who goes to a New Zealand hospital acutely ill will be treated and questions will be asked later. It is not ethical to turn people away and in this country we do not do so. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Would the Minister like to keep this perspective in mind: his willingness to do absolutely nothing about the number of illegal immigrants getting surgery in our hospitals means there are not the resources to get treatment to people who have been culled off waiting lists such as the woman who was forced to have a colostomy bag put on because this Government culled her off a waiting list—what is he going to do about that woman? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: If the member wants to do angry I invite him to reflect on this. Ten months ago he stood on soapboxes around this country and said: “We don’t need increases in health expenditure; we can afford tax cuts.” Had his party formed a Government there would not have been $750 million extra in 1 year in the New Zealand health system because his party in Government would have given it away in tax cuts. There is a word for that and it begins with “h”. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table two reports—one that shows that the three Auckland district health boards are owed in excess of $4 million by foreign nationals and a second report that shows lower North Island district health boards are owed close to $2 million. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.