4. Question No. 4—Social DevelopmentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 4—Social Development4. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Is she satisfied with the high-level trends in benefit advances as published in the September 2019 Ministry of Social Development fact sheets?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): Benefit advances are one type of assistance available to Ministry of Social Development (MSD) clients if people have an unexpected cost that they can't afford. The cost of housing as a result of nine years of neglect under the previous Government is continuing to impact people's household budgets and as a consequence we have seen significant increases in hardship assistance. We don't want clients to go to loan sharks in these situations and advances on their benefits help people avoid that. Qualification and criteria for benefit advances have not changed. People who are receiving this assistance are eligible for it.Hon Louise Upston: Does she agree with the Child Poverty Action Group that said and I quote Huge costs of living and housing low wages and inadequate benefit levels mean meeting everyday costs are a … struggle for our worst-off families and whānau"?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I actually do agree with the fact that housing costs are having a huge impact on the household budgets of many New Zealanders who are experiencing hardship. This Government moved quickly when we got into Government to get through our $5.5 billion Families Package. That was targeted towards lower and middle income New Zealanders. At the most recent Budget we saw the indexation of benefits we saw the moving away from the punitive section 192 of the Social Security Act which punished women and their children and we also saw the lifting of abatement thresholds. Do I accept that there's more to do? Absolutely and this Government is on the right track.Hon Louise Upston: Does she accept that her Government's policies which have increased the costs of living have resulted in over 200000 beneficiaries having to ask MSD for an advance to meet everyday costs?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I reject the premise of the question. What I will say is that that member is absolutely aware of the fact that when her side was in Government special needs grants hardship grants were all on an upward trajectory anyway. That side of the House did nothing to address the housing crisis and that is why we are in the situation we are in now. What I do take great pride in is that we have a Government that is actually responding to the need that is out there. Actually the Salvation Army at a meeting I had in west Auckland a few months ago said at least now they have the confidence that if they push someone towards MSD they will not be turned away.Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What is this Government doing to address debt for low-income families?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: This Government has already started to address concerns around debt. We're making changes to the Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Act to provide better protection for families from irresponsible lending and harmful mobile trading practices. The Safer Credit and Financial Inclusion Strategy is currently being developed by MSD the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment and Te Puni Kōkiri. MSD is supporting the Good Shop the Salvation Army's ethical shopping trucks which provide communities with financial advice and quality goods with no interest. There's also been an increase in funding through no- and low-interest loans under the Community Finance Initiative between MSD BNZ and Good Shepherd. This Government is also putting more money into the pockets of our low-income families through our $5.5 billion Families Package and through the initiatives that we put through at the 2019 Budget.Hon Louise Upston: Why is the Government pushing vulnerable New Zealanders into debt with nearly twice the number of benefit advances than two years ago?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Again I reject the premise of that member's question. What we have seen with the most recent statistics that have come out around debt is actually recoverable assistance under this side of the Government—which for the member's sake is the support that you can get through MSD that does have to be paid back—is down as well as fraud debt. We're being much more proactive with clients and we're not ashamed of the fact that when people present to MSD needing hardship support we provide them with that support.Hon Louise Upston: Does she believe that pushing vulnerable New Zealanders into debt with increased benefit advances is either kind or caring?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I believe that for a long time our welfare system has not been fair or accessible. On this side of the House we're working hard to ensure that it is. If New Zealanders are eligible for support through MSD then we're not going to deny them of that support. But as I said in the House before we recognise that a big part of our job at MSD is actually providing financial support to stabilise people's financial situations but alongside that we're also putting the additional investment in to support New Zealanders into upskilling training and employment—things that were overlooked and not done by the previous Government."