McClay ToddHon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua): Thank you Madam Speaker. The last speaker in this debate the Hon James Shaw mentioned the moral journey that future generations may have to pay off and the moral obligation that we have and that we need to set the solutions to long-term challenges. That's an admirable sentiment from a member of the Government but we haven't seen a lot of that in action. Indeed when it comes to the challenge that future generations will have in paying off the significant amount of debt that will be run up in the coming years the absolute obligation on this Government is to spend as little as is necessary and to spend it very well—Dr Duncan Webb: It's called austerity. It's called kids going hungry. It's called homelessness. We've been there. We've done it.Hon TODD McCLAY: —to do so on things that will deliver for the economy today and in the future and to come out and tell New Zealanders honestly and up front for once—and the member can take a call if he wants to—how they're going to pay it back without raising taxes.What we've seen in this Budget is that debt in New Zealand will go to $250 billion over a four-year period. This Government will borrow $140 billion additionally to spend in four years—more debt than we've ever had before. The challenge that we have when it comes to debt is that actually—Mark Patterson: You've got no idea.Hon TODD McCLAY: —it's other people's money that's being spent here.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Actually I have quite a few ideas.Hon TODD McCLAY: It's other people's money that's being spent here. So Mr Shaw is correct: it is future generations children and grandchildren that will pay this back and they will do it in one of two ways under a Labour - Green - New Zealand First Government. There will have to be fewer services which means less money for teachers or for doctors or for nurses or for policemen or there will have to be higher taxes because the country knows that a Labour Government with the Greens and New Zealand First under their wing is very good at spending money and then raising taxes to pay it back. And if it's not going to be paid back through higher taxes every member of the House on the other side and the Prime Minister has the opportunity to stand up and say that taxes won't be increased but when they've been offered that opportunity they haven't taken it and they haven't said there won't be more taxes. But what they have said is Our policy will come." Well New Zealanders know what it means when $140 billion is borrowed and spent in a four-year period and it must be paid back.But here is the challenge—because of course we live in times when there will have to be borrowing irrespective of who forms the next Government. So a National Government will also have to borrow but what we will do is borrow more carefully and we will make sure that we spend taxpayers' money more carefully than has been evident under the last three years under this Government and we will look at things that will grow the economy invest in infrastructure that actually will get built. So when we announce that we would want more houses it won't be a few houses under the equivalent of their KiwiBuild which has been one of the greatest failures of this Government over the last three years—such a failure that they don't call it KiwiBuild any more. We'll look to back New Zealanders and make sure that we can have the Government agencies and departments working more efficiently and more productively for the taxpayer resource that they are given and that will mean the economy can grow more quickly that we will be able to borrow less and that there will be less burden upon New Zealanders today and going into the future.There's $250 billion worth of debt and you only need to look at actually some of the spending over the last three years under the Provincial Growth Fund or other things that the Government have spent money on to give a bit of insight into what would happen. So the big announcement last week of the Provincial Growth Fund was a swimming pool and a library. Well that's going to change things isn't it around the country. Look good on that small community who want a library and they want a swimming pool but do you know what they want more than a library and a swimming pool? They want some hope they want some jobs and they don't want to be saddled with debt in the future and have higher taxes to pay that back. Less services and higher taxes is what this Government is promising but not admitting to.There are 200000 New Zealanders on the unemployment benefit as a direct result of COVID-19 as a direct result of the lockdown when the Government closed the economy down. We know there are likely to be more than 300000 additional New Zealanders who will lose their job and go on the unemployment benefit. These are everyday hard-working Kiwis that have done what the Government asked of them which was actually a great sacrifice to themselves. The Budget doesn't look widely at how to help them get back on their feet. So we know that there's been a wage subsidy there which the Opposition the National Party supported. It was important through lockdown that New Zealanders didn't have to worry about where the paycheque would come from but actually since they've been able to go back to work businesses have relied upon that. The Prime Minister has said that it will run out in a few weeks' time and that is a hard cliff that businesses run up to when it comes to employment. [Interruption]Now members opposite can scoff at that but wait and see what happens over the coming weeks as business after business has to lay people off because they don't have the resource to keep them on. When the Prime Minister says "Actually it will be OK because we are expanding the criteria around the Government-guaranteed loan scheme offered to businesses and particularly small businesses." what members opposite don't realise and what the Prime Minister forgot to tell New Zealanders is that for very many businesses in New Zealand they can't get access to those loans because the Government has offered an 80 percent guarantee and the bank needs to give a 20 percent guarantee for that loan. In many cases the banks won't lend the 20 percent because they don't have certainty of when the economy will fix itself they don't have certainty around the Government policies and when it comes to the tourism industry they have no certainty of when the Government is even going to start talking about things that will help the industry get back on its feet even safe short-term things today that would make a difference.So when the Prime Minister says "Don't worry; unemployment won't go up when the wage subsidy finishes because businesses can take on more debt and the Government is guaranteeing it." she's out of touch because actually most businesses I talk to are saying they don't have a debt problem; they have actually too much debt. It's a turnover problem and they need help for a shorter period of time as the economy fixes itself supposedly. But secondly their banks won't lend to them. So what we're going to see as of last week and this week and next week is businesses that want to rebuild their business. They want to keep their workers there working for them as they strive to make things better but when the wage subsidy is over they know they can't afford to keep those workers on and they've started the discussion already about unemployment and they've started the discussion already around redundancy.When the member opposite said "What would this member do?" well we're going to go and get every single vote because here's the thing: on 20 September for the tourism sector—the tourism sector and every travel agent in this country—20 September it will be too late because for five months those travel agents have had no income at all.Mark Patterson: So what's National going to do about it? What's National going to do about it?Hon TODD McCLAY: And when Kelvin Davis who rarely is on top of his brief stands up in this House—DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order! Mark Patterson.Hon TODD McCLAY: —and he says that actually it's travel agents' fault for not applying or asking for too much or for trying to actually sort the things out themselves what he does is a great disservice to these small-business people who have been scrapping for five months to try and rebuild their businesses with no remuneration. They've been looking after New Zealanders who are owed a lot of money around the world because they're not able to travel and actually the Government has done nothing for them.So come 20 September it will be too late because long before that those businesses will close. And the members opposite say "Well actually it will be OK with this loan." There's not a single travel agent in the country who's said they're able to get that loan because of uncertainty and there are thousands and thousands of New Zealanders who have done what was asked of them who have sacrificed who are about to lose their jobs. The Government needs to take action on this long before the election because by the time the election comes around it will be too late.The final thing I want to say as my time runs out is how the Government really has its priorities wrong. It is a good thing that there is money in tourism—and there's $400 million that they've given to about 120 companies—but the sad thing about that is there are so many thousands of other businesses in tourism who are deserving of funds as well and haven't been given it. And here's a question: why has AJ Hackett been given $10 million by the Government to save 20 jobs? And the reason for that is just down the road there is a business with 50 jobs and those jobs are about to go because they didn't get $10 million. So the problem the Government has is they picked some things that are a great press release and look good on TV but the hard-working New Zealanders that graft every day have been left behind.Good on AJ Hackett for getting $10 million out of the Government to save 20 jobs. That's a great achievement but the person down the road with 50 jobs that are about to go didn't need $10 million didn't need $1 million; they actually just needed a few hundred thousand dollars over the next few years to keep those people on and they didn't get it because the Government is picking people they perceive to be winners. Why did they go and give money to the Waitomo caves and not the small businesses around them that depend upon tourism in exactly the same way? The Government has lost its way. It doesn't have the right priorities. Come 20 September a solution is on its way.DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is a split call possibly."