1. Question No. 1—Prime MinisterTODD MULLER (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime MinisterORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Prime Minister1. TODD MULLER (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Will she accept my offer to work with the Government to implement National's JobStart policy as soon as possible?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): I understand the member wrote to the Minister of Finance to request this and I will leave it ultimately to the Minister of Finance to respond to his correspondence. We do however welcome constructive ideas for getting people into work. Ideas such as the one the member has already proposed have been in the mix or already exist in some form as part of the Government's programme. I do want to add however that the focus at the moment is on making sure we're helping businesses to hold on to as many workers as they can through things like the wage subsidy and other direct support like changes in our tax regime and the small business loan scheme which has already lent over a billion dollars. While we still have workers being laid off we do need to make sure we do everything we can to keep them in work.Todd Muller: I repeat the question: will she accept my offer to work with the Government to implement National's JobStart policy as soon as possible?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: And I repeat my answer: I will leave it to the Minister of Finance to respond to his request but I will refer the member to the programme called Mana in Mahi which is also a subsidy to employers that totals $9580 in subsidy. A major difference between this scheme and what the member is proposing is that there is a requirement to keep an employee in training to try and stop the potential churn that some commentators have raised might be an issue with the scheme the member has proposed.Todd Muller: Why then did her finance Minister say in relation to JobStart on Friday—and I quote—It's certainly an idea that we're prepared to consider … We welcome constructive ideas that are about getting people into work."; or does she not consider that JobStart delivers on that?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I actually just said we welcome constructive ideas for getting people into work and ideas such as this are already in the mix. I have not dismissed it because if I were to dismiss it I would be dismissing the entire premise of Mana in Mahi which is also a subsidy scheme for employers to take on employees. A big difference though is that that programme has overcome the issue of people potentially being hired and then potentially being fired in order to access a subsidy which I'm sure the member would wish to avoid as well.Todd Muller: Does she agree that businesses in New Zealand would find a $10000 cash grant for each new hire beneficial as they try to grow following the staggering impact of COVID-19?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Mana in Mahi provides that opportunity for employers. Again I highlight: it provides a $9580 wage support element to it that goes to the employer. But it does more than that. It provides pastoral support so the employer doesn't have to worry about whether or not a trainee shows up for work every day. It includes an extra $2000 for education support. If an employer is taking someone on with the intention of training them that is also often a barrier. So it is a much more comprehensive programme. We have considered whether or not we could scale it up and/or broaden the criteria for it and that's why I say ideas like this are in the mix.Todd Muller: Does she support $10000 per new employee for every New Zealand business who is prepared to take someone on at a moment of economic crisis?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I support the programme that is providing $9580 in wage support already. So when it comes to programmes that provide wage support I do support that concept; in fact I worked alongside the Minister of Employment in the development around the programme. I've been a long-time advocate of it. But what the member is advocating doesn't account for issues around churn and it doesn't account for the fact that right now businesses need us to help them keep the staff they have.Todd Muller: Has she received positive feedback on JobStart as I have from the business community since it was announced on Friday?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I've seen a mix of responses but again I won't take the fact that some people have been negative about it as a reason not to pursue the idea of wage support.Todd Muller: Yes—that was just Grant. Does she agree with Business New Zealand's Kirk Hope—and I quote—"No one has a monopoly on good ideas right now and anything that will make jobs for Kiwis should be welcomed."?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I can see the member isn't used to receiving praise. I have already said that we welcome constructive ideas. We have not dismissed the idea of wage subsidies. In fact I've already acknowledged that we've used them in the past. So I again repeat to the member: I'm not dismissing his policy; I am pointing out that there are issues that need to be worked through and we're considering them as part of our work programme.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Prime Minister whether it's a fact that she welcomes any idea even those that include throwing cash at the problem when it doesn't include their mates?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I think the member is perhaps referring to the fact that we have done a lot of rigorous work around the way we've used Mana in Mahi. I point to the fact that the member's last Government the National Government through the global financial crisis used Community Max. It stumbled across problems. We want to learn from those and that's exactly what we are doing in the development of our policy.Hon Grant Robertson: Has the Prime Minister seen the feedback on the policy from economist Tony Alexander who said "This is an incentive for businesses to lay off 10 employees then go to the Government two weeks later and say 'I now need to hire 10 employees can I have my money please?' "—Hon Amy Adams: Read the detail.SPEAKER: That's all right.Hon Grant Robertson: —and he went on to say "In reality this is not what the economy needs at the moment."?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes and I have read the I think three or four pages that the National Party provided in detail around this policy. I'm not letting the fact that there was a lack of detail get in the way though of supporting constructive ideas. I am however pointing out that there are issues we would need to account for and that's the kind of thing Mana in Mahi does.Todd Muller: So the Prime Minister's confirming to the House that half a million businesses in this country do not see value in a $10000 grant to assist them to take on an extra person?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I say again: there is very little difference between the concept of a wage subsidy and the concept of Mana in Mahi except for the fact we have accounted for the fact that—oh sorry forgive me Mr Speaker; it was actually two pages—the detail of the member's plan does not deal with the fact that we might see churn we might see people who are employed and then within my recollection is six months be sacked and they're expecting IRD to monitor all of that.Hon Grant Robertson: Does the Prime Minister think it's her responsibility to finish Todd Muller's homework?SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member knew that was out of order. He will stand withdraw and apologise.Hon Grant Robertson: I withdraw and apologise.Todd Muller: I ask again: half a million New Zealand businesses are seeking clarification—do you support $10000 on the table to assist them to employ one more person to get out of this COVID recovery nightmare?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again I will just highlight again that actually that is not what I have frequently had correspondence from businesses on. It is about keeping their existing staff and that is why we have focused on a more than $10 billion wage subsidy programme: because businesses don't want to lose the people they have. There will be a period in the recovery and we are gearing up with that around apprenticeships and keeping them in their roles around things like using Mana in Mahi but I don't apologise for the fact that we have focused on job retention and then job creation."