2. International Education—Fraudulent Agents Prime Minister's Meeting with Indian Prime MinisterRON MARK (Deputy Leader—NZ First) to the Prime MinisterInternational Education—Fraudulent Agents Prime Minister's Meeting with Indian Prime Minister2. RON MARK (Deputy Leader—NZ First) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Yes particularly the one I made yesterday when I said that after New Zealand First's performance yesterday in the House I could not wait for Winston to come back.Ron Mark: In light of his recent trip to India does he stand by his statement in relation to fraudulent agents that he won't be raising it" but "expects it to be discussed"; if so why did he not raise the issue when he met with Prime Minister Narendra Modi?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Because that is not the single biggest issue that I would discuss with Prime Minister Modi. That is because about 30000 students each year come from India and the absolutely overwhelming bulk of them come into New Zealand legally and with the appropriate paperwork. The fact that there are a few unscrupulous agents in India is a matter of course to be dealt with and that is why we are putting extra resources in India while we will be putting more pressure on the institutions themselves to know their agents. But I really do not think it would be the No. 1 issue to talk to the leader of India about when we can talk about free trade and a variety of other issues.Ron Mark: So can you tell the House again why you did not raise this issue given that 35230 student visa applications have been processed in connection to education agents that have had an alert or a client warning placed on them by Immigration New Zealand's Mumbai area office since 2010? Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I do not have all those details and if he wants the specific details he really should go and put it down to the appropriate Minister but I make the simple point that yes there are people who apply and whom the system correctly picks up and rejects. The vast overwhelming bulk who come here are people who are lawful and entitled to be here and hopefully get a very good education and some of them stay and some of them go home. But in the end the way for us to make sure that we protect the integrity of our system is that people follow the rules. If they do not follow the rules then we have a way of dealing with that. I am pretty confident that overall the system works well.Ron Mark: I seek the leave of the House to table a document entitled "Total number of education agents that have an alert or client warning since 2010". The date is 20 October; the source is an Official Information Request (OIA) response from Immigration New Zealand.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that particular OIA response. Is there any objection to it being tabled? There is none. Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Ron Mark: Can he tell the House again why he did not raise the issue considering that Immigration New Zealand has conducted 70 investigations into fraudulent activity regarding international students since 2010 resulting in 265 students being liable for deportation? Why did he not raise it considering that?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: There was a discussion with the Indian Prime Minister about the benefits of export education and about the benefits that New Zealand institutions which do a very good job can bring to helping educate those young people. There was certainly feedback that those young people are enjoying their experience in New Zealand. I do not think it would be for me to go to the Prime Minister of India and say to him that he should go and sort out a couple of his agents. It would be nice if he did not have anything else to do all day but given that he has got 1.27 billion people to look after he is probably just a little bit busier than Mr Mark is. Ron Mark: I seek the leave of the House to table a document entitled "Total number of investigations by Immigration New Zealand into international students since 2010". The date is 20 October; the source is an OIA response from Immigration New Zealand.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that particular OIA response. Is there any objection? There is none.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Ron Mark: If more than 163 student applications have illegally entered New Zealand via fraud and that is only in the 2015-16 financial year then why did he not think it was an important enough issue to raise in those discussions with the Prime Minister of India?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Because in the discussions I had with the Indian Prime Minister there were some big objectives we were trying to achieve one of which is advancing a free-trade agreement with the country that is going to be the most populated by 2026. Yes there are one or two agents in India that are not following the rules and that is why the Government has beefed up its representation there. But the member last week was on TV bleating about the fact that I should not be going to India and today he is in the House bleating on about the fact that I did not ask the questions he liked. Ron Mark: I seek the leave of the House to table a document entitled "Total number of student visa applications that have entered New Zealand via fraud 2015-16 financial year". The date is 20 October; the source is an OIA response from Immigration New Zealand.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that particular OIA response. Any objection? There is none. Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Ron Mark: If the New Delhi area office declines 60 percent of partner student applications after an investigation into "convenience-based marriages" by student visa applicants why did he not think that that was an important enough issue to raise with the Indian Prime Minister?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The fact that there are applications that are being declined—and I simply make the point that they are being declined by all countries from what we can see that are offering export education opportunities—actually shows you that for the most part the system is working.Ron Mark: I seek the leave of the House to table a document entitled "Analysis report on the convenience-based partnerships at New Delhi area office". The date is 11 August 2016; the source is an Official Information Act request from Immigration New Zealand. Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that particular OIA response. Any objection? There is none. It can be tabled. Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Ron Mark: If the Mumbai area office is circulating a weekly fraud update uncovering weekly cases of fraudulent activity through dispersal letters bank documents recycled bank documents and imposters pretending to be someone else among others why did he not consider that this was an important enough issue to discuss with the Prime Minister of India? Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Some people could make the case that the member is trying to pretend he is the leader of New Zealand First. Anyway I digress for a moment. The main issue here of course is that as I said earlier no one is arguing that there are not some agents in India who are acting inappropriately and we would be concerned if our office was not picking them up—but the vast overwhelming bulk are. We have increased the number of people in India to help deal with that and we are dealing with the individual institutions. The vast overwhelming bulk of the 30000 Indian students who come to New Zealand have arrived here with the appropriate paperwork and professionally. The number who are looking at deportation is about as small as the New Zealand First caucus from what I can see. Ron Mark: I seek the leave of the House to table a document entitled "Weekly fraud updates at Mumbai area office from 28 March to 8 July 2016". The date of this document is 20 October 2016; the source is from an OIA request to Immigration New Zealand.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that particular document. Any objection? There is objection.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It might be a better course of action for the member to table the entire OIA response which of course is a document that proves to him that the New Zealand Government is on top of this particular problem and it would save the House a lot of time.Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] I do not need assistance from either member. That is not a point of order. It would certainly be more helpful than tabling documents after every supplementary question—which he is doing in my mind more to strengthen the political point he has made in his question which is not the purpose of tabling a document. I have started putting the leave. If there are many more it would be better I think if we hold it until the end and we put them all in one go if I decide that they are relevant. But I do point out that the basic function of tabling a document is to provide further information to members. Everything that has been tabled so far by leave of the House has actually already been announced in the supplementary question that the member has given to the Prime Minister so it is not adding any further information to members. Ron Mark: Oh it is.Mr SPEAKER: I am on my feet Mr Mark. It is not providing any further information. It may be reinforcing the information the member is making in his supplementary question but that is not the point of tabling a document.Ron Mark: Speaking to your point—Mr SPEAKER: No there is no need to speak to the point. I have made a decision. Does the member have a further supplementary—Ron Mark: I seek leave to make a clarifying statement because what you have just impugned is my reputation.Mr SPEAKER: Order! Leave is sought for the member to make a clarifying statement. Is there any objection? There is objection. Hon Annette King: You don't object to personal statements. That's stupid Gerry.Mr SPEAKER: Order! It was not a personal statement the member was seeking to make.Ron Mark: Is it not a fact that despite the Prime Minister's assurances fraud is rife in the Indian student market and it is affecting the reputation of our export education market and yet he is too weak to raise the issue to the Indian Prime Minister's attention and/or even attempt to address the problem that is contained in these documents here?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Far from it—125000-odd students came to New Zealand last year and about 30000 came from India. The number of students that have been identified in New Zealand who could be deported because there could be irregularity with their documentation is a very tiny tiny fraction of that. It is not even in the hundreds let alone the sort of number the member seems to be claiming. The system is clearly working because we are picking up the issues. Actually overall this is an industry worth well over $3.5 billion to New Zealand and it works well. We know that the member represents the party that does not want to engage with the rest of the world but he not should keep his head in the sand.Denis O'Rourke: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Standing Order 386 "Content of replies" states: "(2) The reply to any question must be concise and confined to the subject-matter … and not contain … discreditable references to … any member of Parliament". This is not the first time the Prime Minister has made discreditable mentions of the New Zealand First caucus which has got nothing to do with any of his questions.Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can I remind—[Interruption] No I do not need assistance. Can I ask the member when he returns to his office to have a look at Standing Order 380. It also mentions that the supplementary questions are to be concise without opinion or epithet. [Interruption] Order! When the last question was asked it referred to effectively saying that the Prime Minister was too weak. If a member asks a question like that he will get a robust response.Ron Mark: Noting those answers Prime Minister can you not understand how most New Zealanders will see that your failure to raise these issues and the serious matters contained in your own department's documents leaves this Government to be seen to be treating Indian students as cash cows and letting them be seen as being exploited with our global reputation on human rights being brought into disrepute? Because that is the situation we are in Prime Minister all because you failed to raise—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The general debate takes place after question time. I remind the member that supplementary questions must be concise.Ron Mark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have to say that I find that difficult to understand when I look at the answers and the length of the answers that you have consistently allowed your National Party colleagues—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. The answer clearly relates to the question. If the question is long and full of opinion like that question it inevitably leads to a longer answer and then we get a complaint from Mr O'Rourke about the length of the answer. If the member could practise his supplementary questions so that they are more in line with the Standing Orders—Ron Mark: You've been pandering to them all day.Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member wants to stay to enjoy the balance of question time then he will not interject when I am on my feet.Denis O'Rourke: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr SPEAKER: Just before I call the member I want to be absolutely clear. The member has raised a point of order. I have given a ruling both to Mr O'Rourke and to Mr Mark—and to the whole House. If the member intends to relitigate the answers that I have given then I will deal with that very very severely and it may be that I ask the member to leave. I just want to make that clear. If the member is going to raise a fresh point of order he is of course entitled to do so.Denis O'Rourke: This has nothing to do with a previous point of order. The point of order I raise Mr Speaker is that you said in your answer that I raised a matter relating to the length of the answers by the Prime Minister. I did no such thing. My point of order was about the content—concerning references to the New Zealand First caucus. It had nothing to do with the length and I would ask you to withdraw that comment.Mr SPEAKER: I appreciate that the member may not have heard it but I said to the member that when a supplementary question puts in political points like "The Prime Minister is too weak to raise an issue." then it is likely that you will get a very robust response back as indeed has happened today. Question No. 3—Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I didn't answer the question.Mr SPEAKER: The Prime Minister has pointed out that he has not had an opportunity to answer the question. I will ask the Prime Minister to answer the question.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No."