Robertson Grant; Willis Nicola; Brownlee GerryHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour): Mr Speaker in the spirit of the way in which ministerial statements are now done I'm going to begin by asking the member two or three specific questions before going on to my more detailed comments on her statement.The first of those questions is to ask the Minister to confirm that in October 2022 KiwiRail wrote to Ministers noting in a 'worst case scenario' the tagged contingency for the project would need to increase by $280m".Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): That information is new to me. I think what the member may be referring to is a pattern of cost escalation that occurred with this project while he was the key shareholder of KiwiRail.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour): I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know this is an unusual course of action but I seek leave of the House to table a time frame regarding the Interislander ferry replacement project that was actually released by the Minister yesterday but—I quoted from it just before. She obviously hasn't seen it.SPEAKER: Well that's true. But if it was released by the Minister yesterday there's no point of putting it on the Table today. Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour): So the timetable released by the Minister in her own press release yesterday includes the statement from October 2022 that KiwiRail noted that "in a 'worst case scenario' the tagged contingency would need to increase by $280m". So I just note for the member the answer to the question I asked is contained in the time line she released yesterday. The second question I have for the member is: can she please explain in what way the project "veered away from its core purpose"? Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): I want to address the member's questions sincerely which is to say I am looking at the timetable I released yesterday and the date that the member has used which is 2022—I've got dates on my time line of 2021 and 2023. So I think the challenge that I'm having is with that time line. So I wish to assure the member—Hon Grant Robertson: Perhaps I should table it because that way we might be able to—SPEAKER: You haven't been granted a point of order so please sit down. Just trying to work out where we're at here—would the Minister continue with the answer to the question.NICOLA WILLIS: Yes. The undertaking I make to the member is that I will ensure that I address this question once I've worked out why I can't find the date on the piece of paper in front of me. And I accept that the question is sincere and I will give it a sincere answer. To the second part of your question which regards my statement that the project had veered wildly from its original intent I based that on the fact that as I understand it when the Government first agreed to fund this project it was in order to replace aging ferries and that was to be the bulk of the infrastructure investment. As I have been advised that now only comprises around 21 percent of the actual infrastructure project. The other 80 percent or so is for significant marine development and port-side development.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour): In light of the answer to that question by the member I would just refer her to a media release dated 27 May 2020 by the Rt Hon Winston Peters which includes the following paragraph: "The funding for the land-side new terminal infrastructure including rail and vehicle marshaling yards will create hundreds of local construction jobs in Picton … along with hundreds of service supply jobs right across New Zealand". So it is absolutely clear that the statement that the Minister made—that this project had somehow "veered off course from its core purpose"—is incorrect. The core purpose of the project agreed by the Labour Party and the New Zealand First Party was for both the construction of new ferries and indeed portside infrastructure as Mr Peters stated in his statement of 27 May 2020.The third question I wanted to put to the Minister was to get her to confirm that the request made in February 2023 by KiwiRail to fund the cost escalation—which had now reached $2.6 billion by that point—was not agreed to by the previous Government.Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): Yes in two parts.Hon Grant Robertson: Right. So we didn't agree to that.Hon NICOLA WILLIS: No no no. I'm not agreeing to that; I'm saying I'm prepared to answer your questions. The first question that you asked was about whether or not the project had veered off. It is absolutely the case that the project today is four times what it was when the Government originally committed to it. And its core purpose was to replace an ageing ferry fleet and yes there was an acknowledgment—not that the ferries would only be 20 percent of the project.To the second question: yes I have been advised that when the former Government learnt that the project had blown out to $2.6 billion the Minister at the time then spent a significant number of months trying to work out what to do. And then I got handed the baby.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour): So to—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Well hang on is this a point of order?Rt Hon Winston Peters: No it's a question; he's had his turn.SPEAKER: No he hasn't—no he hasn't. We've got the new rules that allow the interchange leader by leader so we'll go right through his—Rt Hon Winston Peters: Yeah but you want the facts don't you?SPEAKER: No no he hasn't finished just yet.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: So to clarify the Minister of Finance's statement says that the project veered away from its core purpose when it hadn't. The Minister's statement also says that the cost had blown out to $2.6 billion under the Government's watch when that money had not in fact been agreed. In fact in my first question I pointed out that in October 2022 KiwiRail told the then Government that the worst-case scenario would be a need to increase the tagged contingency we'd put aside by $280 million.For the record making sure that we have a sustainable and resilient Cook Strait ferry crossing is essential for New Zealanders. We all agree that the cost escalations that KiwiRail proposed were unacceptable and they were not accepted by the previous Government. What we did was attempt to safeguard the investment that had already been made the sunk cost that will now be lost to New Zealanders and ensure that there would be a ferry crossing. We did spend a considerable amount of time between Treasury and KiwiRail and the Government this year to find a way forward and before we left Government we made an in-principle offer to KiwiRail for part of that construction cost because we did believe that it was important that New Zealanders did have confidence that there would be an ongoing sustainable Cook Strait ferry network. KiwiRail rejected that offer and that was the position we were in going into the election.The position the Government now leaves New Zealanders in is with no idea as to how they will be able to ensure that there is a future sustainable Cook Strait ferry crossing. I urge the Minister to do two things: find some certainty for New Zealanders and release the full documentation about this project so that New Zealanders can see how hard the previous Government worked to keep a ferry crossing going for them in the future.Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): I think if the point that the former Minister wishes to make is that this sorry saga dragged on for months under his watch then yes that is correct and yes he did oversee multiple cost blowouts and yes there was engagement with KiwiRail about it. But actually what then happened was that he decided four weeks out from an election to put aside money for the project knowing full well that in the form that he was choosing to fund it KiwiRail had recommended it not proceed and that for example passengers would not have been able to get on the ferry unless they caught a bus on to the ferry. That was the solution that was thought viable.Hon Grant Robertson: No ferry—that is your solution. No ferry.Hon NICOLA WILLIS: But if the member will just give me a moment of patience I wish to apologise to the House because when the member asked me about 2022 I had in front of me an old timetable and not the one that I have released publicly. I regret that error. The member is correct that the timetable I have released publicly says that in October 2022 "KiwiRail [advised] Government of cost escalation in the terminals noting market engagement with construction partners [would] result in initial price estimates for the terminals programme in December 2022. KiwiRail noted that in a 'worst case scenario' the tagged contingency would need to increase by $280m.""