8. Question No. 8—Acting Prime MinisterDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader—Te Pāti Māori ) to the Acting Prime MinisterQuestion No. 8—Acting Prime Minister8. DEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader—Te Pāti Māori ) to the Acting Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government's statements and policies?Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Acting Prime Minister): In the same way as we answered for questions two and three and again in question eight.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: How can he stand by his decision to use parliamentary urgency to push through legislation that will increase unemployment and insecure working conditions while reducing wages when people are trying to survive a cost of living crisis and put more kai on the table for Christmas?Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Because none of those statements in that so-called question are true. But they are relevant to the inheritance that this Government is sadly having to deal with now and desperately before Christmas. And so if they'd paid more attention to the economy rather than their woke idiotic left ideals—SPEAKER: Yep that'll do.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: —the workers of this country would have done far better. But it's been my observation that the Greens—the economies that they admire are all in the Third World.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order through you please e te Pīka. There are a couple of ones I could bring in—perhaps Standing Order 121 personal reflections or relevance to debate Standing Order 112. I'll leave that up to you please.SPEAKER: Yes I know. But I could also rule out your first supplementary because it had suppositions in it. So we do try and get a degree of flow if at all possible. But if you just restate your concerns there because I didn't quite pick up the first one.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: My concerns are that the question for the Deputy Prime Minister wasn't answered. And we also take exception with reference to woke". They're personal reflections and they don't belong in this House. Ko tōku whakaaro. [That is my opinion.]SPEAKER: Yes there's an awful lot of things that happen in this House that don't really belong here so I think we might just let that one slide. Do you have another supplementary at all?Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Yes I do. Thank you. What is his justification for repealing fair pay agreements and reducing the wages and conditions of Māori Pasifika young people and women as highlighted by his own Government's leaked Cabinet paper?Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Well first of all the integrity of the person answering this question on the subject of incomes and wages is that that threshold was set in the previous Government not by Labour or the Greens but by New Zealand First. We want the working class of this country to get fairly paid but we want a thing called productivity and we know it's only based on—Hon Dr Megan Woods: It's nonsense.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: It's not nonsense; it's totally true and I can prove it. I can go back to 2017 and prove that categorically. We know what they campaigned on so don't come here today and try and tell us what you couldn't do. At the end of the last three years the workers of this country were dramatically let down by a failed economy and our job is to turn that around. When we do so we'll uplift the wages of everybody in this country.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Why is this Government planning to bring back 90-day trials which will disproportionately punish tangata whenua particularly rangatahi trying to get their foot in the door of the job market when the research commissioned by the Treasury in 2016 found no evidence that trial periods increased firms' overall hiring but instead just make it easier for firms to sack people without cause and with fewer dismissal costs?Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: The fact is—if anyone understands economics—a willing business and a willing worker are critical to employment. So whether it's one month two months or three months the fact of the matter is that the sound connection of those two will work. However it is our intention as the Government the moment someone is no longer able to work to be on their case to get them back into work. So the consequences that that member's talking about simply will not happen.Hon Grant Robertson: Given the member's pride in the minimum wage level can he tell the House what the minimum wage is today?Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Twenty-two dollars $23 $22.70. $22.70—am I right? Yeah. [Interruption] No I didn't ask him—no I was telling him. I said $22.70 knowing that I'd have an affirmation on my right from the Minister of Finance and the Leader of the House. Over here we consult before we open our mouth.Rawiri Waititi: He aha tō whakautu ki ngā rōpū e mahi ana mō ngā tamariki rawakore e karanga ana kia heke te whika o ngā tamariki rawakore mā te pene mā te hiki i te whiwhinga pūtea mā te ngāwari o te hoko kai me te māuiui ārai?[What is your response to the groups that are working for underprivileged children that are calling for a reduction in the number of underprivileged people by the pen by raising wages by making it easier to buy food and medication?]SPEAKER: Is the member going to translate that or does he want to give the Minister a moment to receive that translation?Rawiri Waititi: Point of order Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: No no. It's only a question; it wasn't any kind of a direction.Rawiri Waititi: Absolutely not.SPEAKER: OK. The question doesn't need to be answered if the Minister—or the Prime Minister in this case—doesn't feel like he wants to answer it. So does the member want to have another question?Hon Grant Robertson: Point of order Mr Speaker. I guess strictly speaking your ruling is in order but the practice in the time I've been in the House is that that is only done when a question is definitively out of order. We have a simultaneous translation system in the House to allow for members to answer. I wonder whether the right course of action here might be for Mr Waititi to repeat the question and the Acting Prime Minister to use his earpiece for the translation.SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order—Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: I'll answer the question.SPEAKER: Oh we've got an answer to the question.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: I just wish that the courtesy of the House would apply so that the person asking the question Mr Speaker—point of order—also had the comfort that the people who are watching on television also are part of this parliamentary debate. That's what a democracy is called. It's not just about 5 percent; it's about the other 95 percent as well. It's called "one people one country". Now back to my point. If the member is concerned about the cost of living—Hon Dr Megan Woods: You are—Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: No no no. On the marae Megan you keep quiet. You do. Willie knows that; he keeps quiet too. You don't shout out like some bunch of clowns at university. That member's asked a question; he deserves an answer and I'll give it to him. If the member is concerned about the cost of living then that is the greatest concern of this Government as well. When we went into the last election it was a massive issue and just behind it was crime and lawlessness and Māori gangs by the same way. But the cost of living can only be addressed by dealing with the causes of it and the causes of it are the number one centre and focus of this Government going forward.Hon Marama Davidson: Point of order Mr Speaker. Was that a point of order?SPEAKER: No that was an answer. Hon Marama Davidson: He raised a point of order. SPEAKER: No no I'm sorry—sorry hang on. The Acting Prime Minister made it very clear: when I called him on a point of order he said "No it is an answer." and that's how we progressed. Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order Mr Speaker. With respect to the House and to everyone watching can we please seek clarity from the Speaker: are our questions in te reo no longer going to be answered by Ministers if they choose not to use the interpreter? That's a really important subject that we're looking for clarity on please. SPEAKER: I can't answer that question for Ministers. The provision is made here for the translation. A Minister decides whether or not an answer can be given and there are very clear outlines in the Standing Orders as to how they might make that decision. Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order Mr Speaker. The questions were for the Deputy Prime Minister so I respect that Ministers may choose to do what they want to but this is a question that would have gone to the Prime Minister who isn't here. So can I seek clarity again: is it the Deputy Prime Minister the Prime Minister or the Government that's making this decision before us today? Because it is a big decision. SPEAKER: No it's not; it's straightforward—that all Ministers are part of the Government including the Prime Minister whether they're Acting Prime Minister Deputy Prime Minister or a Minister and it is very clear under the Standing Orders how they may or may not answer the question. Hon Chris Bishop: Point of order Mr Speaker. I think in fairness to the members asking the questions sometimes the contemporaneous translation service doesn't quite keep up with the asking of the question. So if I could say to members who wish to use te reo when asking questions: if they could perhaps indicate they're about to do so so that Ministers and Government respondents can get the translation device the hearing equipment—the earpiece—so that they can actually listen to the question as it's being asked. That will also help the translator do their job as well so that we can have the expeditious exchange rather than what we just had. SPEAKER: Next in line was Marama Davidson.Hon Marama Davidson: Thank you Mr Speaker—genuine and important conversation happening right here. Are we to believe then that it simply becomes a choice for a Minister to not answer a question given that te reo is an official language similar to New Zealand Sign Language? I understand the point that Mr Bishop is trying to make that yes I'd too be open to the person asking the question to repeat the question so that we all have time to pick up our translators; agree. But are we to understand that it is simply a choice not to answer a question that is asked in an official language of this country?SPEAKER: No I think the member confuses two things: one is that there's no question that te reo is an official language of this country. The fact that it is not a language that is shared with any fluency by a large number of members of the House is neither here nor there. The use of it is permitted. When it comes to the answering of a question there's nothing new in this; it has always been the case. In fact Speakers' ruling 199/4 makes it very clear the parameters for Ministers able to decide to not to answer a question. Hon Kieran McAnulty: Thank you Mr Speaker. The concern I have here is—you're quite right to point out Speakers' ruling 199/4 but also Speaker's ruling 199/3 says that where a question is clear there's an expectation that Ministers answer it. It's unfortunate how this has played out however where there were the words "point of order" used it's been ruled that it was a comment but nevertheless the response that was part of that suggested that that Minister—perhaps others—will not answer questions if they are asked in te reo. Now I'm not sure that it's useful to continue that so I wonder if you would reflect on it perhaps watch it over again because it would be an unfortunate reflection on the House if that was what is suggested backed up by the suggestion that Ministers don't have to answer. We shouldn't go down that track. SPEAKER: I take the member's point on board and will in fact reflect a little further on it. It's one of the penances you do in this job reflecting on these things so I'll go ahead with that and come up with whatever it might be. Hon Shane Jones: Point of order Mr Speaker. Just following on from the speaker who has resumed his seat the reality is that there was a slight delay in the translation reflective of the rudimentary nature of the Māori language and my ability to make it sound more sophisticated in English.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Speaking to the point of order. SPEAKER: Hang on we're talking about his one.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Speaking to it?SPEAKER: Well I'm sure that's a wonderful piece of—Hon Kieran McAnulty: Speaking to it?SPEAKER: Yeah I'm just congratulating him on his self-congratulations inside of the point of order. It was quite remarkable. The Hon Kieran McAnulty.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Thank you and I thank the Minister for his contribution. However the issue that arose also from the suggestion from the Hon Grant Robertson that Rawiri Waititi be given the opportunity to repeat the question that all members in the House therefore would have notice and would be able to listen to the translation—however the response was that Ministers don't need to provide an answer and now we are where we are. SPEAKER: No it was two parts to the point. I answered the first part. If the member wants to ask the question again then I think we can progress by doing so.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order. With respect e te Pīka just again to seek clarity from this party's perspective and the 70 percent of our population who are under the age of 40 who kōrero e te reo Māori if we need to bring about a different practice because this is a practice that we've had since we came in three years ago Te Ururoa had—that we've had Te Pāti Māori enjoy and other members across the House. Is the decision today—and it may need to go up for reflection for the Business Committee—that we need to indicate when we're transferring language or is there going to be a different set of protocols applied around—SPEAKER: No it's not a decision that's been made here at all. I've said that I will reflect on how we might make things work more smoothly because you might notice that most of the people in this House are not reflective of that 70 percent—in age if nothing else—so if we are to get answers to questions we need to have something that works. That's certainly my desire.Hon Marama Davidson: Point of order.SPEAKER: Marama Davidson—last point of order on this matter.Hon Marama Davidson: Thank you Mr Speaker. It's just in relation to Speaker's rulings 199/3. It's very clear that where the question is clear there is an expectation that Ministers will answer it unless they consider it not to be in the public interest to do so. So I'm just seeking clarification on whether it is not in the public interest or what is the ruling that you are calling to allow Ministers to have that choice?SPEAKER: The ruling stands but it is not for the Speaker to determine the interpretation of that ruling. Do we have another supplementary on this question?Rawiri Waititi: Just for clarification Mr Speaker and your guidance: is it a repeat of the first question or are you saying that I have to move on to the next question?SPEAKER: No look I'll tell you what: you make the choice. Is that OK? You can ask the first question again if you want and that won't cost you your subsequent supplementaries.Rawiri Waititi: OK first supplementary question: He aha tō whakautu ki ngā rōpū e mahi ana mō ngā tamariki rawakore e karanga ana kia heke te whika o ngā tamariki rawakore mā te pene mā te hiki i te whiwhinga pūtea mā te ngāwari o te hoko kai me te māuiui ārai?[What is your response to the groups that are working for underprivileged children that are calling for a reduction in the number of underprivileged people by the pen by raising wages by making it easier to buy food and medication?]Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: If we're going to help all those people who are working with the poor then the first thing we should do is uplift our economy and leave no one out. That is the purpose and the focus of this Government—that with the reforms that are going to go ahead running a far more successful economy and ensuring that no one is left out in housing education and health and in terms of infrastructure access then people will be uplifted; not like the disaster we had where there were all those tens and tens and tens of thousands utterly forgotten and the homeless went up by 35 percent. Rawiri Waititi: He aha ngā kaupapa here a tēnei Kāwana mō te hiki i te whiwhinga pūtea kia ngāwari ai te utu mō ngā pire o te kai me te penihīni i mua i te Kirihimete?[What are the policies of this Government for raising incomes to make it easier to pay for food and fuel bills before Christmas?]Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Well the first thing that is going to happen is that in parts of the economy the cost of petrol is going to go down because the unfair charging that was imposed by a previous Government for no purpose while roading was a mess—Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: We'll hold you to that.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Well you are going to hold us to that—you won't have to hold us to that because unlike that member we keep our promises. We don't just make them and break them one after the other; we keep them. So those pricings should go down. It depends of course on all the international circumstances of supply chains to this country. And whilst I'm at it they left this country's fuel supply in a desperate circumstance when they wound back Marsden Point. We could be closed down within three days because of their short-sightedness and Megan Woods is the person who never acted in international interests—just allowed the refinery that is so critical to this country in an emergency to be not operating any longer. And on the bigger question of costs of living before Christmas well there's only two weeks to go and we're going to do the best we can to signal to the market and through the Groceries Commissioner a fairer pricing regime going forward."