Pugh Maureen; Tinetti JanMAUREEN PUGH (National): Thank you Mr Chair. I would like to start my contribution by looking at the cost of the implementation of this new policy which is removing the subsequent child rule that is in the current Act. It says in the documentation that there is no or very little additional cost. In fact the only cost that is of significance is the $3.966 million for IT changeovers and for training costs for staff. But it does say in this bill that for those who shift from the jobseeker support to the sole parent support the rate of benefit will not change. But we know that the change to sole parent also triggers additional financial incentives so I just wonder has the Minister costed those financial incentives and if so what are they? And what is the likely cost of that—per annum—going to be to the taxpayer of New Zealand?While the Minister is getting ready I'll maybe just quote the impact that that's going to have. There will be 5400 on the sole parent that will have their work obligations changed which means that they will no longer have to be seeking employment from when their youngest child turns one and 2500 jobseeker support beneficiaries would move on to sole parent support. So there is quite a significant number of people that will be transitioning on to different benefits. It also takes into account of the 1000 partners of those people who also will have their work obligations changed. So if the Minister is able to address those costs I think that the taxpayers would be very grateful. Thank you.Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Internal Affairs) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I'd like to just point out that the cost of those financial incentives are outside of the scope of this bill. However I would like to point out what some of those financial incentives for training and employment would be for people going from job seeker through to sole parent. We know that when the subsequent child policy is removed there would be approximately 4200 sole parents receiving jobseeker support or that are currently seeking jobseeker support would become eligible to transfer to sole parent support. So some of the financial incentives that they might be eligible for one would be the work bonus. That is a non-taxable non-recoverable payment that can be made to clients or partners on specific benefits who do not have either part-time or full-time work obligations and who cancel their benefits to move into employment. Some clients who become eligible to transfer from job seeker to sole parent support when the policy is removed may therefore become eligible for the work bonus.There's also the Training Incentive Allowance. The Training Incentive Allowance as we know is a non-taxable payment for clients who meet the qualifications and are getting specific types of benefits. At the moment the Training Incentive Allowance is available for sole parents receiving jobseeker support but because of their work obligation commitments it might mean that they can only study part-time with the Training Incentive Allowance. Moving from jobseeker support to sole parent support when the policy is removed may therefore be able to increase their study from part-time to full-time and they will be supported to do so. So I think that giving people that added incentive to study full-time and increasing their qualifications is a really good thing.Whilst reduced work obligations may remove a trigger in the welfare system conversations about returning to work clients will still be supported to return to work if they indicate that that is their preference. I think that that's really important in this that it is giving those people their choice of what works best for their whānau. So we know that the Ministry of Social Development offers a range of initiatives services and support that build capacity and remove barriers to employment for sole parents. I would be testing your patience I think if I went through them all now but if members on the other side are happy to hear them then I would be happy to answer that question.