8. Question No. 8—PoliceDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Minister of PoliceQuestion No. 8—Police8. DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Minister of Police: My question is to the Minister of Police whom I'd intended to wish a very happy birthday. How many prohibited firearms have been handed in per collection event on average as part of the gun buy-back scheme and how many prohibited firearms does he expect will be handed in at the remaining 81 collection events currently scheduled?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice) on behalf of the Minister of Police: On behalf of the Minister I thank that member for his birthday wishes but he won't be invited to the party. To the first part of the question—Hon Members: Aww!SPEAKER: I do want to remind the member that he is answering on behalf of the Minister of Police who sometimes has a different view on these matters.Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I think I was fully in the spirit of my colleague's feelings on this matter. To the first part of the question police have advised that since the buy-back events began six weeks ago 9800 firearm owners have handed in more than 15700 firearms and 58500 prohibited parts. That means that on average it is more than 100 firearms per event. It should be noted however that it's not just the collection events where firearms are making their way into the hands of the police; there are dealer collections; there are permanent firearm modifications which makes them legal; bulk pickups and station drops as well—they are all channels by which firearms are being collected. To the second part of the question from the beginning we have said that we don't know how many firearms there are in circulation which is why we need a register. We do know there are 14300 registered military-style semi-automatics. There are an estimated 1.2 million to 1.5 million firearms in circulation but the vast majority are not prohibited. There are four months to go on the buy-back scheme and the amnesty and it is early days.David Seymour: How does the Minister intend to increase the number of firearms collected at each collection event by a factor of 20 which is what will be required given the credible estimates of numbers out there?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister that member's version of a credible estimate is his view. The reality is that firearms are being surrendered. Prices being offered are being accepted. Of those 9800 firearm owners who have surrendered firearms 40 have challenged the price offered to them in exchange for their firearms. So all the indicators are that the buy-back scheme is going well. The indications from those participating in the large-scale collection events are that the mood is good and people are satisfied with the way they are being treated.David Seymour: I seek leave to table an Official Information Act request response from customs dated February 2018 showing 136000 firearms imported in one five-year period alone.SPEAKER: Fair enough. Is there any objection to that being tabled? There appears to be none. But I will remind the member—I should have pulled him up earlier on his maths—I think it was a factor of five not 40. But keep going.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.David Seymour: I said 20 but as a supplementary question will this Government consider extending the amnesty period past 20 December if the numbers of firearms being handed in at events don't improve on what they are now?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Again on behalf of the Minister no because all the indications are that the buy-back scheme is going according to plan. Firearms are also being surrendered by way of the amnesty scheme. They are firearms that are not prohibited; they are firearms that have made their way into people's hands who may not have a licence or are just people who are saying I don't want to have a firearm any more and I'm not looking for a payment back for it. I just want to surrender it." So all of those things are happening and things are going largely according to plan.Ginny Andersen: What reports has the Minister seen about how the buy-back events are being run?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister the buy-back scheme has been described by the Nelson Mail as "the best thing" and Mr Ian Robinson who handed in his two firearms—an AK-47 and a pump-action .22 calibre rifle—said and he was referring to the weapons that he had "It's the most barbaric thing on earth. They're only there to kill people. So the best thing for it is for it to go through the bender."—that's the firearms to go through the bender not him obviously; he's not going to the pub. From The Timaru Herald somebody else who preferred to remain anonymous said "I've got some Muslim friends and it's not something you'd think would happen here." And about the buy-back he said "It's the right thing to do. It's the only thing to do." And The Northland Age described the turnout at the event up there as "a phenomenal response from Northlanders". Law-abiding firearms owners know that this is the right thing to do and they are participating accordingly.Brett Hudson: How many firearms does the Minister believe were made prohibited by the 2019 Arms Act amendments?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister that is of course an absurd question because we just don't know. We know that 14300 military-style semi-automatics were registered and we are going through the buy-back scheme—15800 firearms have been surrendered and paid for as part of that buy-back. But the whole objective of this exercise is to remove dangerous firearms when they are not needed to make our communities safer. That member should stop getting lines out of the National Rifle Association playbook and do what's in the interests of all New Zealanders.Hon Grant Robertson: In reference to the previous member's supplementary question would it be significantly easier to give an accurate assessment on the number of weapons if for instance there was a register of weapons?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister well that is why the Government has foreshadowed that it intends to introduce legislation to provide exactly for that—[Interruption] SPEAKER: Order! Both of you.Hon ANDREW LITTLE: —so that the police—and they are the ones who every day are turning up to events where their lives are at risk because they simply don't know whether some of the people they're dealing with have firearms or not. A register would help enormously.Brett Hudson: Did he receive advice from the New Zealand Police that it could be 240000 or more firearms that are now made illegal?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On—Brett Hudson: Yes you did.Hon ANDREW LITTLE: —behalf of the Minister—SPEAKER: Order! Who interjected that? Well the member's lost his question.Hon Chris Hipkins: Has the Minister seen suggestions that the Government should have gone further in the first firearms amendment bill and included a firearms register in that bill and if so who made that suggestion?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister I understand that it was Judith Collins who had made that suggestion.Brett Hudson: Is he concerned that on current hand-in numbers he is likely to see fewer than 50000 firearms handed in?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister I'm not quite sure how meaningful that question is. The whole thing is we know the number of registered military-style semi-automatics that there are and we've now exceeded that number in terms of firearms that have been handed in as part of the collection. We just don't know how many there might be. We made a best estimate. We took a stab in the dark—no pun intended—with what we had but when you look at those who are turning up to the events and you look at the throughput of firearms that are being surrendered as well as those that have been dropped off at police stations as well as those who are contacting the police for pickups of multiple firearms as well as those who are surrendering firearms as part of the amnesty we are very pleased with the progress that is being made.David Seymour: I seek leave to ask an additional supplementary question for a very specific reason. I think a lot of people in the House—SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member seeks leave to ask another supplementary question. Is there any objection to that? Yes there is. The member has had four this week.Hon Michael Woodhouse: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I realise this isn't a normal convention but the National Party is prepared to transfer one of its supplementaries—SPEAKER: And the rules are that if the National Party is going to transfer to Mr Seymour they do it before question time as they did today—two questions.Hon Michael Woodhouse: I seek leave to transfer one of the remaining supplementary questions the National Party has to the ACT Party.SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that process? No there's not.David Seymour: Has the Minister received advice from the police that there may be as many as 240000 firearms prohibited under April's legislation?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: On behalf of the Minister I can't recall that advice and as I'm answering on behalf I simply have not seen that advice."