Flavell Te Ururoa: Gangs and Organised Crime Bill — First Reading 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Gangs and Organised Crime Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:652;Page:1110] 
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
: 
 Tena koe Mr Assistant Speaker. I a tatau e korero nei i te take nei anei au e noho i te awangawanga i te rangirua. E penei ana te korero i te mea kaore e kore i nga marama kua hipa kua rongo tatau katoa o tenei Whare i te ngau o-mate. No reira me penei rawa te korero haere koutou haere koutou haere koutou moe mai. Apiti hono tatai hono koutou ki a koutou apiti hono tatai hono tatau e hui nei i tenei ra nga mema o te Whare Paremata tena koutou tena koutou kia ora tatau. 
I mihia te hunga mate e Mr Assistant Speaker na runga i te mea i nga hararei kua hipa i natatanei i te wiki kua hipa ake i rongo te hapori o Murupara i te matenga o tetahi o wa ratau tamaiti. Ko Jordan Herewini tona ingoa. Tekau ma ono tona pakeke. I kohurutia e te mema o te kenge kia mate. Whanakohia te waka a tetahi o te kenge taraiwa tika tonu atu ki tera tamaiti ka hinga ka mate. Tekau ma ono noa iho ona tau. Ko wai te hunga i kohuru i a ia? He kenge. He Maori i patu i te Maori. No reira nei au e noho nei i te riri ki tera tangata i kohuru i tera tamaiti. Anei au e noho i te whakama na te Maori ano te Maori i patu. Anei ano au e noho i te pouri na runga i te pouri o te ngakau ki nga tamariki o tona kura tona whanau te tumuaki nga kaiako o tona kura. 
Anei au e noho i te rangirua ae ranei me tautoko i tenei pire kaore ranei. Ki te Minita he pai tonu te aronga o te pire nei. Ae kia hangai tonu ana ki te hunga e mahi nei i nga hara o roto i te ao. Kai te whakaae atu au ki tera. Engari anei au e whakaaro ake nei ka ngaki tera i te mate o Jordan? Kaore pea kaore pea. I mohio au ki tenei tamaiti a Jordan. Ko taku riri ki tera tangata nana tena i mahi. Engari e hangai tonu tenei pire ki tera? Te ahua nei kao. Kaore i eke ki tera taumata. 
Kua hoha te ao Maori ki nga mahi a etahi o nga kenge. Ae kua hoha kua riri ki nga kenge mo te mahi kohuru mo te mahi whanako mo te mahi hokohoko tarutaru. Ko nga korero o te mema i tu mai i mua i a au ae e tautoko ake. Engari koia nei te rongoa? E kore pea. Ahakoa ko te ngakau kei te ki ae me tautoko. Ko te hinengaro kai te ki taihoa. Taihoa ake nei. Ata wananga i te take nei. Ehara i te mea he take ngawari noa iho. He tamariki to wetahi o nga mema o nga kenge. He kuia tonu to wetahi o nga kenge. He koroua tonu he wahine tonu ta wetahi. No reira kai te korero tatau mo te tangata mo te tangata. Kai te korero tatau mo te whakapapa o te tangata kaua ko te whakapapa o te kuri. Ko te whakapapa o te tangata penei i a koe a koe a koe a koe a koe tatau he tangata. 
E ki ana i roto i te ao Maori: “He aha te mea nui o te ao? Maku e ki atu he tangata.” No reira kai roto i nga korero o te ao Maori. No reira tenei take he take nui whakaharahara he take nui. Me korero ki te take ka tika. 
Na ara ano nga awangawanga. Ko te ingoa o tenei pire kai te ki “Kenge me nga” kaore au i te mohio pehea te whakamaori i enei korero engari  
“ 
organised crime 
”.  
Tera korero. Ko te mate ke penei i taku korero ki te Minita i te rangi nei. Ko tenei kupu o te “kenge” e ai ki ta te titiro o Aotearoa hangai tonu ana ki nga kenge Maori. Ki ta te titiro o Aotearoa hangai tonu ana tana titiro ki te kenge Maori. Anei matau e wananga nei ara noa atu nga momo kenge. Ukuia tera ingoa. Ukuia tera ingoa kia kore tenei pire e rere tika tonu atu ki te ahuatanga o nga Maori. 
Katahi. Ka rua. Kua rongo au i nga korero a Metiria Turei ko tana ki mai mo te ahuatanga ki a Tuhoe. Nui atu roa atu i te kotahi tau te pirihimana e matakitaki atu ana e te pirihi. Pai mai kino mai koina te ahuatanga o te mahi. He aha te putanga mai? Katoa o te wharua o Ruatoki i rongo nei i te ngau o te pirihimana ahakoa ehara no ratou tetahi paku he. Anei matau e patai nei i te patai ka pehea te hunga e korerohia ake nei i roto i nga kenge? Ka pera ano hoki ratou? Ae ranei kaore ranei. A tera korero tera. Ko tetahi pea o nga tikanga e ai ki ta wetahi tetahi o nga tikanga o te kenge he utu te korero. He utu. Ka patua tetahi ana patua ano ra tetahi atu. Anei tatau e mahi nei i tera mahi ki a ratau. Ko taua ahua ano ra. Ko te utu. Kare e whakaaro ake mo te ngawari kia puta mau ratau ki te whai ao ki te ao marama kao. Tikina te ki mahia te mahi whiua ki te whare herehere. Tera korero tera. 
No reira kei te whakaae atu au ae he take nui te kenge. Ko taku e ki nei kei roto i o tatau ringaringa pea te rongoa. He aha te he o te titiro ki tetahi huarahi ke atu? Kaua ko te utu engari tera pea ki etahi huarahi e whai haeretia nei e te hapori o Murupara. I naponei i hui a Ngati Manawa ki runga i tetahi o wa ratou marae ki Murupara. I reira i korerohia te take nei. I puta te korero karangahia he hui o nga kenge katoa o Murupara kia hui tahi kia korero tahi a kua puawai tera moemoea. Apopo ka tu te hui mo nga kenge o Murupara. Apopo. Ko ta ratau ko te kimi rongoa i roto i a ratou ano. E kore nga pirihimana e tae atu. Kore nga mema paremata e tae atu. Kua waiho ake ma te hapori ano te hapori e korero. Kua waiho ake ma Ngati Manawa a Ngati Manawa e korero. Kua waiho ake ma Ngati Whare a Ngati Whare e korero. Ma nga kenge tera e whakatika. No reira kai te whakaae atu au ki tera. 
He aha te tikanga o tera hui? Kia haere i raro i te korowai o te mana orite ara ko te  
“ 
equal mana 
” 
. Orite te katoa o te hunga ka tae atu ki te hui. Engari kotahi anake te aronga o tera hui ko te anga whakamua kia kore a patu a whanako a tukino tane ki te wahine tane ki te tamaiti tane ki te tane e whakatinatinahia i roto i tera hapori o Murupara. 
No reira hei kupu whakamutunga ko te hunga ka mahi i wa ratau mahi nanakia e te mangai mena ka he i raro i te ture tukuna ki te whare herehere mena koina te huarahi. Engari e kore tenei pire e whakatinana i te wawata waiho ake ma te hapori ano te hapori e whakatika. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Greetings to you Mr Assistant Speaker. As we debate this matter I sit here troubled and concerned. I speak in this manner because without a doubt all of us of this House have experienced the death of a loved one in the months past. Allow me then to pay a tribute to them by saying: depart farewell journey on rest there. You the dead to the dead and we the living to the living—that is we the members of Parliament gathered here today greetings to you greetings to you and greetings to us.  
I paid a tribute to the departed Mr Assistant Speaker because in the very recent holiday period just past—a week ago in fact—Murupara suffered the death of a young one of their community. Jordan Herewini was his name. He was 16 years of age and murdered by a gang member. A gang member’s vehicle was stolen and driven on purpose towards that youngster who was felled and killed. He was only 16. Who murdered him? It was a gang member. Maori slew Maori. So here I am furious at the person who murdered that child—ashamed that a Maori killed another Maori. I feel as well for the pupils of his school his family and the principal and teachers of his school.  
Here I am in a state of confusion about whether to support this bill or not to support it. To the Minister I say that the emphasis of this bill is quite good. Yes the focus is on the ones responsible for the crimes in the world. I agree with that. But I really wonder to myself whether that will avenge Jordan’s death. I do not think so—no not at all. I knew this lad Jordan. My anger towards that person for that foul act knows no bounds. But is this bill really relevant to that situation? No it hardly seems to be. It is not quite up at that level.  
Maoridom is fed up with what some gangs get up to—yes hacked off with acts of murder theft and selling cannabis. Yes I support what the member who spoke before me said. I agree with it. But is this the solution? Perhaps it is not. Even though the heart is saying “Yes support it.” the mind is saying “Wait up. Hang on a moment.” Let us debate this issue carefully. It is not a clear-cut matter. Some gang members have children of their own. Some have their own elderly women and menfolk. Some have a wife. Therefore we are talking about people. We are talking about a person’s genealogy not about a dog’s one—the genealogy of a person like each and every one of us as people.  
The question in Maoridom is this: “What is the greatest thing in the world? I say unto you it is mankind.” So it is there in the aphorisms of the Maori world. This then is a huge issue. It is a great one a valuable one and important. It has to be discussed and quite rightly so.  
There are other concerns too. The title of this bill states “Gangs and”—I do not know how to translate the rest of it but leave it at “Organised Crime”. That is that one. The problem really is like what I raised with the Minister today. According to the New Zealand view this word “gang” relates directly to Maori gangs. Here we are debating but there are many types of gangs. That name should be deleted. It should be removed so that this bill does not refer directly to Maori circumstances.  
That is the first thing. Second I heard what Metiria Turei said in respect of the situation concerning Tuhoe. For more than a year—a very long time in fact—they were subjected to police surveillance. Good or bad that was the situation. What was the outcome? The entire Ruatoki valley suffered the consequences of police presence even though they could not be faulted not by one bit. Here we are posing the question: what about the ones referred to in gangs? Will they be dealt with in the same way? Yes or no? That is that matter. According to some perhaps an eye for an eye is a gang custom—revenge. When a life is taken it is paid for by the life of someone else. And here we are doing exactly that to them—taking revenge. No thought is being given to make it easy for them to emerge into the world of enlightenment the world of light—none. Fetch the key do what has to be done toss them in prison! That is it.  
I agree gangs are a big issue. I advocate that the remedy perhaps is in our hands. What is wrong with looking for another way instead—not an eye for an eye but perhaps some avenues like those being followed up by the community of Murupara? Just last night Ngati Manawa met on one of their marae. There they discussed this matter. The statement was released that a meeting of all Murupara be convened for them to meet and talk together collectively. So a dream bloomed. Tomorrow there will be a meeting of the Murupara gangs—yes tomorrow. Their objective is to look for remedies within themselves. The police will not be there neither will politicians. It will be left totally for Ngati Manawa to deal with Ngati Manawa and Ngati Whare itself. The gangs will put it right. I agree with that totally.  
And what is the purpose of that meeting? It is to be conducted under the mantle of “equal autonomy”. Equality will be upon all who attend the meeting. But that meeting has one focus only and that is to move forward so that the male element that hits steals and molests women children and other men ceases to manifest itself in that community of Murupara.  
In conclusion those who conduct themselves in a reckless manner and err against the law should be sent to prison if that is the way. But if this bill does not realise the hope leave it for the community to deal with its own 
.]