Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8702] 
6.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: When did the Ministry of Health or his office first become aware that Dr Bierre was taking leave of absence or standing down temporarily from the Auckland District Health Board in light of his answer yesterday that: “I have no recollection of being told that Dr Bierre had been stood down but I may have been.” and how? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Health 
: I became aware of the matter when Dr Paul Hutchison the then National Party health spokesperson asked me a parliamentary question on 16 July 2006 about conflicts of interest. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I was very careful in the wording of this question because that information has previously been given in the House several times. This refers to the Ministry of Health or his office so I would ask the Minister to address that question. It is not him personally being advised; it is his office or his ministry. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: As to either/or I have no information indicating that at all but the office would have been informed before the Minister was. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: When did the Ministry of Health first become aware that Dr Bierre was taking leave of absence or standing down temporarily from the Auckland District Health Board and how? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am now informed that as part of discussions in late 2005 about the Auckland service reviews Auckland District Health Board staff indicated to the ministry that Dr Bierre may be standing aside. This was in the context of his being nominated by the board as an assessor for haematology. The Minister was not informed by the ministry about that fact at that time. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Is the Minister aware that the Auckland District Health Board chairman and deputy chairman consider that they have done a good job and have saved taxpayers’ money and would he agree that this sort of claim will do nothing to assure taxpayers that their interests are best served by health bureaucrats negotiating supply contracts? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Certainly district health boards need to be looking for savings to improve productivity in the health system. I have no better authority for that than the Leader of the Opposition Mr Key who referred only a short while ago to introducing more competition into the health system. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Will the Minister confirm that the Ministry of Health in fact receives and monitors the minutes of the Auckland District Health Board and that it received the minutes of the February 2006 meeting of the Auckland District Health Board which clearly set out that Dr Bierre stood down from the board because of the lab testing contract; and is the Minister saying that despite his officials knowing that Dr Bierre was standing down because he was bidding for the contract no one in the Minister’s ministry informed him of this fact? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The information I have is as I said that there was a stand-down in late 2005 in respect of assessment. The reference in the March Auckland District Health Board papers noted that Dr Bierre had stood down. This was not noted by the ministry at the time and as the member will be aware there is an incorrect reference in the financial review papers to money being received contributing to “laboratory services” which should have stated “for service reviews”. So I do not have information on that matter; I would be happy for the member to table that paper. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has the ministry learnt anything from this very sorry district health board lab saga which involves a lab contract that proposed to save millions by using an untested and uncertain provider; if so why is the ministry pursuing through Pharmac an unproven 9-week treatment regimen being proposed in respect of the drug Herceptin on the basis to oncologists and others that they get either 9 weeks or nothing—what has the ministry learnt in respect of this drug from the district health board lab saga in Auckland? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is a long bow but I call the Hon Dr Michael Cullen. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I do not have a specific briefing on the matter that the member refers to. My understanding is that that matter is resting with the district health boards at the present time and that 9 weeks’ treatment is quite standard treatment for a range of cancer drugs. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Would it be satisfactory for the Ministry of Health to have been aware that Dr Bierre was standing down as a member of the Auckland District Health Board because he was bidding on a half-billion-dollar contract involving that district health board and not to have informed its Minister of this? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: If the ministry had been aware of that fact and did not inform its Minister I would be most surprised. That would seem to me to be a serious lack of duty on the part of the ministry. I am advised as I have told the member that the ministry was aware he was standing aside but that it was over a much lesser matter—it was in relation to being an assessor for haematology and obviously that was an appropriate action to take. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: What is happening here now that the Minister has accepted that it would be serious negligence on the part of the ministry which monitors these minutes if it did not inform its Minister and what is happening here when the Ministry of Health had the minutes and the Minister’s appointed board monitor Graham Aitken was at the meetings where it became aware that Bierre had stood down and where the Minister’s appointed chairman Wayne Brown knew that Bierre was standing down because of this bid—but no one told the Minister; and were these people not responsible under the no-surprises policy to tell the Minister of these events? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am a little surprised by the member’s statement regarding February because the person concerned Dr Bierre had already stood down from the board at that point in relation to being an assessor for haematology. So the action following that case was perfectly appropriate and not of the level of seriousness or involvement that would necessarily have required it to be brought to the attention of the Minister. It is quite a different matter from the issue of the very large contract that the member refers to. I give him an assurance that if those minutes show that that was the case I will take that up with the Minister and I am sure the Minister would want to talk to the Director-General of Health about that matter. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Should Wayne Brown the Minister’s appointee as chairman have told the Minister that Dr Bierre had stood down in a bid for a half-billion-dollar laboratory contract under the no-surprises policy and does the Minister realise that he wrote to Mr Brown reminding him of the importance of the no-surprises policy only one day after Dr Bierre had stood down? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: As I said before Dr Bierre was taking leave from the board from mid-January 2006 in relation to the other matter. I am not clear therefore how he could have stood down again in February 2006. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Does the Minister agree with the chairman Wayne Brown who said: “It’s not a fiasco. This is a great result.” and what is so great about Mr Brown failing in his basic duty under the no-surprises policy to advise the Minister of Health that one of his board members had been stood down because he was bidding on a half-billion-dollar contract involving that board? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I have said now on a number of occasions that Dr Bierre who is greatly associated with the National Party stood down at the end of 2005 and the beginning of 2006— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Just answer the question. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: He is very close to the National Party. He stood down in late 2005 and the beginning— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Just answer the question. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: He is very close to the National Party. He stood down in late— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: He doesn’t want to answer the question. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: He is very very close to the National Party and particularly Dr Jackie Blue. He stood down in late 2005 and early 2006 in relation to being an assessor for haematology. As I say if the member cares to provide the evidence he has I will follow up on it. I do not have that advice or information at all. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. At the invitation of the Minister of Health I would like to table advice from 2 February that the chair advised that Tony Bierre had taken leave of absence which had been granted by the chair for the period of the request for proposal being issued for the community laboratory contract. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.