Sepuloni CarmelHARETE HIPANGO (National): Thank you Madam Chair. And we are addressing before the committee of the whole House Part 2 of the bill. Part 2 covers clauses 12 to 42. I'm just going to touch on—the Minister referenced to Part 3 and we'll address it appropriately when we get there. But the time frames were issues that I reiterated at the select committee and was dispensed by officials and members from the Labour benches as not being significant to this. Child-centric is what I keep emphasising and reiterating.On that note coming back to Part 2 talking about the monitor's responsibilities I addressed and put before the committee of the whole House last night—last evening—Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 230 it's one of my SOPs and that was to do with clause 16. And again the Minister on advice it would appear from observation has been advised that that's not relevant. I'm going to bring that SOP 230 up again—number 230.I've heard the Minister talk about the role of the Independent Children's Monitor that there have been about four reports that have been filed thus far. It's well known that the children's monitor was established the office and the appointment in 2019. Here we are in 2022 and this bill—soon to be law and it will go through undoubtedly—is about requiring what the functions and the duties are of the monitor. That's three years or four years post the establishment of the monitor who's put out four reports. I have one of those reports to hand and I remind the Minister that the Independent Children's Monitor has reported the importance of the children and young person's voices and I quote allowing them to have a voice regarding decisions made about them particularly when that child is in care." Further quote "children will need to have a voice in the system" not about the system mentioning and referring and looking at other organisations and the overview of the Independent Children's Monitor the Office of the Children's Commissioner soon to be board in an advocacy role and the Ombudsman in terms of investigating complaints. But there's no specific reference to the positioning of children in the system. That's what my clause the Supplementary Order Paper 230 was precisely doing.I reiterate the bill in terms of the Independent Children's Monitor's tools and monitoring approaches clause 16(2)(b) reads "operate in a way that recognises the importance of children's and young people's families whānau hapū iwi and communities …" doesn't actually insert and include that it should operate in a way that recognise the importance of children and young people and their families whānau hapū iwi and communities. I reiterate that this is a direct recommendation coming out of the Office of the Children's Commissioner and for some reason has just been parked and dispensed with. Our children should be centre and central and pivotal to what the function of the Independent Children's Monitor is.So that's why I say directly to the Minister directly to the public who are listening in and directly to the Office of the Children's Commissioner: I'm advocating for the inclusion and the importance of children and young people's voices being particularly factored in to what the tools and monitoring approaches are of the monitor.Further to that in the Supplementary Order Paper 209 clause 16(4) "In developing their tools and monitoring approaches the Monitor must consult—(a) the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki: (b) the chief executive of services approved under … Oranga Tamariki Act … (c) the Commissioner of Police". Where's mention of consultation engagement directly with the children and the young people? So my proposed amendment is that there be the insertion of a clause 16(4)(d) "care-experienced children and young people and their whānau."So the Independent Children's Monitor report emphasises the necessity and the importance of that. And again I quote page 6 of the children monitor's report dated May 2020 "child-centric approaches. Considerable importance was put on placing tamariki within the context of their whānau."Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Thank you very much Madam Chair. Some of what was brought up by the member was discussed last night and we talked about the Government Supplementary Order Paper—a lot of what came up from that member was discussed last night. We talked about the Government Supplementary Order Paper and I think actually one of the Green Party ones as well which further enhances the need to ensure the best interests of children and that children are consulted.The issue with the Supplementary Order Paper that that particular member has put up is that that member is asking us to consult with every single child in care. Harete Hipango: No.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Now that is not practical—it is—and that would result in the slowest-moving system ever which would not support or protect the children in the way that she is voicing that she would like to see them supported. The Independent Children's Monitor as it currently exists—and she is right; it has been around since 2019—has already been consulting with care-experienced children when developing their tools but it is certainly not practical to consult with every single one."