3. Beneficiaries—Homelessness and Outcomes for People Leaving BenefitsMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentBeneficiaries—Homelessness and Outcomes for People Leaving Benefits3. METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister for Social Development: How many people on benefits are currently homeless?Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development): I am advised that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) does not record whether people are homeless because you do not need an address to get a benefit. Of course if someone was to present to Work and Income and tell it they were homeless it would work with them to address their situation. As I said in the House yesterday Work and Income staff are absolutely passionate about helping people get back on their feet and live successful lives.Metiria Turei: How many of the 60000 children who she says are no longer on benefits are homeless?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: We do not know. We do not keep track of where those children are living. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! I am now very quickly losing patience with the considerable interjection and conversation occurring across the aisle.Metiria Turei: How many beneficiaries who have been subject to financial sanctions are now homeless?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: As I said in my answer to the primary question I am advised that MSD does not record whether people are homeless because they do not need an address to collect a benefit.David Seymour: Would it be easier to collect those statistics if beneficiaries accurately reported where they were living and with whom?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Work and Income does require some information particularly from sole parents. It wants to know whom they are living with in order to establish whether or not they are sole parents.Metiria Turei: Why does she not instruct MSD to keep records of beneficiaries and their children who are homeless when she knows that poverty and homelessness are two of the most pressing social issues facing New Zealand today?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: The member is assuming that because we do not have figures Work and Income does not deal with people who have those issues. Of course working with a case manager if a client declares that they have nowhere to live and they are in dire financial circumstances the staff at Work and Income will work with that person in order to help them get good accommodation and live a successful life. It does not necessarily report those numbers through to the Minister.Metiria Turei: How many of the 60000 children she says are no longer in benefit-dependent households are now in households that live above the poverty line?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I have said before in answer both to questions in the House and to written questions of course people leave the benefit and go into employment they go overseas some of them go on to be superannuitants some of them go into jail and some of them die. We do not necessarily follow them as they leave a benefit. However I have conducted some research pre-welfare for the 2 years prior to the welfare reforms and I am awaiting a further update on that research for a cohort for the 2 years following the welfare reform to see exactly what happens to people who leave the benefit. It is clear even at this early stage that well over a third of the people who leave the benefit are still in work 2 years later.Metiria Turei: So the Minister does accept the social policy evaluation and research unit's (SuPERU) analysis that shows that 2 years after coming off a benefit only 33 percent of those beneficiaries are now in paid employment?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Yes that was right. The SuPERU research also showed as I have said that there is a whole variety of things that people go on to do in their lives. Some of them go into work. Some of them go into a different household situation where they do not have to work and are supported by someone else. As I say some go overseas and some go into training. There is a whole variety of things that people do.Metiria Turei: Is the Minister concerned that after housing costs the population poverty rate in 2016 is exactly the same as it was at the time of the global financial crisis and has not changed during the time of the National Government?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I would have to look at the figures that the member is referring to.