8. Question No. 8—Social Development and EmploymentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 8—Social Development and Employment8. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many people if any received jobseeker support for one year or longer according to the September 2017 Ministry of Social Development quarterly statistics and how many people if any received jobseeker support for one year or longer according to the December 2021 Ministry of Social Development quarterly statistics?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment) (remote): As the member knows comparing different quarters of benefit statistics doesn't take into account seasonal spikes. But to answer the question the number of people on jobseeker support for longer than a year in the September 2017 quarter was 67890. The more relevant comparison is December 2017 to December 2021. The number of people who had been on a jobseeker support for longer than a year in December 2017 was 69087 or 56.2 percent of total job seeker numbers. For December 2021 it was 116634 or 62 percent of total job seeker numbers a small percentage increase of 5.8 percent which is encouraging given the global emergency we have been dealing with. I'm pleased to say that throughout 2021 we saw a record number—119700 people—exit a main benefit and go into work around 40000 more than in 2017.Hon Louise Upston: Can she explain at a time when businesses are crying out for staff why 55000 people have spent three years or longer stuck on jobseeker an increase of 20000 people under Labour?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Economic shocks such as COVID-19 affect more vulnerable people in the labour market. These people tend to have barriers to employment such as remote location lower skills or no substantial work history. They tend to need more intensive support to re-enter the workforce and this Government is delivering with record numbers of people moving off the benefit and into work. We know there are jobs out there in industries such as construction and road transport and we have been working hard to address the skills gaps by investing heavily in work-focused case management industry partnerships and programmes such as Mana in Mahi. These programmes are making a difference.Hon Louise Upston: Can she explain at a time of severe staff shortages why the Government has allowed those stuck on the jobseeker benefit for five years or longer to hit 32000 an increase of 7500 people under Labour?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We have seen record numbers of people exiting benefit into work and that is due to the Government's investment in upskilling and training and employment. If we compare where we are at now with where we were at two years after the global financial crisis we can see that about 11.4 percent of working-age New Zealanders are on benefit but at that time 13.1 percent of working-age New Zealanders were on benefit. So we actually are doing significantly better now than what we were doing at that time. I'm heartened to see the numbers of people go down each week that are on benefit and actually I've been advised—and these figures will be released tomorrow—that last week we saw over 6000 people come off benefit.Hon Louise Upston: Does the Minister accept more people are in long-term benefit dependency compared to when this Government took office and does the Minister believe this is a problem?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What I accept is that there are more people on benefit now and Treasury had forecast much more than what we're currently seeing. I think it's important to note that in 2017 the percentage of people receiving a main benefit for longer than a year was 70.7 percent. At the end of 2021 it had only risen slightly and was at 72.5 percent. So proportionately we're not doing much worse than what we were doing previously. However the raw figures of people that have been on a benefit for more than a year or three years is higher because the overall numbers are higher but thank goodness not as high as what Treasury had originally forecast we may get to. Hon Michael Wood: Can the Minister confirm that changes that the Government has made to abatement thresholds mean that some people who are still receiving benefits have in fact been incentivised to move into the workforce?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: That's certainly what it's starting to look like. Also the preliminary view of the information I've seen although it does need more interrogation is looking like there are a number of people who were working part-time at the time the policy was introduced who then became eligible for a benefit so this actually supported them with being able to get more of an income. So in both ways it has worked for a number of New Zealanders and I think that it's realising the policy intent that we intended when we implemented that.Hon Louise Upston: Why has the Minister allowed benefit dependency to spiral out of control when it harms not only those trapped on benefit but the lives of the one in five New Zealand children now growing up in benefit-dependent households?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think it's very disingenuous for that member to say that benefit numbers are spiralling out of control when that member knows that Treasury had forecast a much darker predicament than what we're currently experiencing. To boot with regards to the fact that we haven't experienced the height in terms of the numbers of beneficiaries that Treasury had first anticipated we're also experiencing an unemployment rate of 3.2 percent which I believe is the lowest that we've ever had or the lowest we've had since something like 1986. This Government's investment into upskilling and training and employment opportunities is very apparent. I'm proud of our track record. We recognise there's more to do but we're the Government to get that done.Chris Bishop: Point of order. During the back and forth of the exchange there the Minister referred to information that was going to be released tomorrow. Pursuant to Standing Order 386 whenever a Minister quotes from a document relating to public affairs the member may require the Minister to table the document. She referred to information that's going to be released tomorrow. She was quoting from it. I ask her to table that document.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Well I'll ask the Minister if she was quoting from it. Mentioning it or referring to it isn't quoting from it. But the Hon Carmel Sepuloni were you quoting from an official document?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I wasn't quoting from it and I did seek advice earlier with regards to what I was allowed to say with respect to information that hasn't yet been published. I didn't give the exact number. I said greater than a certain amount so I do not believe that I need to table that information today.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. That's answered that question.