9. Question No. 9—JusticeHon MARK MITCHELL (National—Rodney) to the Minister of JusticeQuestion No. 9—Justice9. Hon MARK MITCHELL (National—Rodney) to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by his statement I could not conceive of such a power to compel someone to make a statement" and will the Government criminalise the non-disclosure of information relating to child abuse cases?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice): In relation to the first part of the member's question I stand by my full statement that "The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 sets out people's basic rights and equally determines the power of the State and its agencies. No person can be compelled to submit to an interview with the police apart from an obligation to provide identifying details name address and occupation. I could not conceive of such a power to compel someone to make a statement ever being acceptable to New Zealanders". In relation to the second part of the member's question I note that the previous Government considered mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse that would have been accompanied by a criminal sanction when they made changes to the Oranga Tamariki Act and they decided not to progress that provision. They had the chance and they didn't take it then.Hon Mark Mitchell: When he said yesterday on Magic Talk radio "Tell me what the law is to change that doesn't encroach on the longstanding kind of protections for innocent people we have" does he believe that family members who close rank and refuse to disclose information about child abuse to police when they're asked are innocent bystanders?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I stand with all New Zealanders who are absolutely appalled and outraged at the fact that a little infant boy sits in a hospital bed in Auckland because those who were charged with looking after him and loving him and caring for him did not do so. That is an outrage on the values of all New Zealanders and New Zealand. However we need to make sure that when the police are conducting their inquiries they do so with a legal framework that means that they get to do their job but without encroaching on basic rights and protections that every citizen has. Right now the police are struggling to find someone to give any indication about who might have been in close proximity to that boy as they conduct their investigation. What I also pity is the fact that in these very difficult situations when the police are trying to do their job when a community is trying to support the police in doing their job there are those who would take political advantage.Hon Mark Mitchell: Whose rights does the Minister think are more important: the four-year-old child that we have lying with a serious brain injury in Starship hospital or the adults who are closing ranks refusing to cooperate with police and not allowing the perpetrator to be identified arrested and charged?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I stand firmly with the rights of that little infant boy who sits in that hospital bed. Who I do not stand with are politicians who grandstand who make calls for law changes that they would never contemplate who make calls for law changes that when they had the opportunity in 2017 to do that did nothing about it.Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern: Can the member confirm that the sad and appalling situation of silence around child abuse has happened before and it was under the last Government and their actions at that time that was not to change this convention but instead to create an offence of failing to take reasonable steps to protect a child or vulnerable adult that that has not resulted in a solution here and that that is not a case for blame but a case for us to find another solution?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I agree with the Prime Minister that the duty on all those who are in a position to do so is to find solutions that work. In fairness to the previous Government at least when Judith Collins was the Minister and shepherded through the 2011 law change it did make some difference there have been charges laid and there have been convictions reached. The Victorian state legislation passed in 2014 which did decriminalise failure to disclose while it led to eight charges has led to absolutely no convictions. But it's on that basis that I have asked justice officials to have a close look at the way—when the police are interviewing somebody when there is a real prospect of prosecution and laying a charge that we change the warning that is given so it shifts the balance toward an emphasis on disclosure by the person being interviewed and not the right to silence.Hon Mark Mitchell: Does the Minister think that it's grandstanding when members of this Parliament are highly offended by the fact that we have a four-year-old Kiwi child in Starship hospital—SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. He knows that's not a question.Hon Mark Mitchell: Supplementary Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: A supplementary question on this occasion Mr Mitchell.Hon Mark Mitchell: Why does he think New Zealanders would not accept a law change that would criminalise the non-disclosure of information relating to child abuse?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Because if they were prepared to accept it the previous Government would have done it when it had the opportunity to do so.Hon Mark Mitchell: Will he work with National to pass legislation that will help ensure those that perpetrate violence against our children are held to account?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I'm prepared to work with any member of this House who is prepared to do something useful sensible and that will actually work."