Pugh Maureen; Henare PeeniTUESDAY 27 FEBRUARY 2024(continued on Wednesday 28 February 2024)PAE ORA (DISESTABLISHMENT OF MĀORI HEALTH AUTHORITY) AMENDMENT BILLIn CommitteeDebate resumed.Part 2 Amendments to Part 4 and schedules (continued)CHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): Good morning members. When we suspended last night we were debating Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 38 to 43 amendments to Part 4 and schedules of the principal Act and Schedules 1 and 2. The question again is that Part 2 stand part.Hon PEENI HENARE (Labour): Tēnā koe Madam Chair. Thank you for the opportunity. Mōrena to members despite how urgency works and we go into another day. Mōrena to everybody here. Mōrena to the Minister and I do want to acknowledge the Minister the Hon Shane Reti for such a lengthy time in the chair. He's done his job to try to answer the many questions that have been put to him by this side of the Chamber about this particular bill. I won't spend too much time recapping. As we come to Part 2 it's really important though as we get into the real technical or some might say—and I spoke to my daughter this morning before she went to school—the nitty-gritty and it's now our chance to prosecute just a few more of the matters in Part 2.This is where I want to start. Last night I asked a question around clause 43 in New Part 2 which is inserted into Schedule 1. The Minister's answer was to speak to the Employment Relations Act if I recall correctly. While I appreciate that the Employment Relations Act is there and it does what it does—it's a very good Act and if Labour had their way again we'd probably make a few more changes just to continue to secure more workers' rights—it's really important though because this particular clause clause 43 is slightly more granular and I mentioned this last night. It does talk to policy. The legislation is there as a structure. The policy however—and Te Aka Whai Ora in its establishment—was very clear that it was going to be for the pedagogy of a Māori world view. That means then that we use the Employment Relations Act as a skeleton if you will but by crikey the policies there were first and foremost Māori policies. I want to remind the Minister that in clause 43 it says that Health New Zealand must undertake a reasonable consultation process before introducing any employment policy that is reasonably likely to have a material effect on that employee. That's important. It doesn't talk about changing the law—the Employment Relations Act. It talks very specifically about policies that have a material effect on that employee.We spoke at length last night about the plight of those employees at Te Aka Whai Ora and the anxiety they must be feeling as the uncertainty dawns upon them that the taonga that our tūpuna—and many members in this House and particularly on this side of the House—have fought so hard for could be gone by lunch time today. So I want to just remind the Minister why that granular stuff is important. To just simply say that the Employment Relations Act—well no we're talking very specifically here about employment policy. Yes the Act can help steer and direct policy but without Te Aka Whai Ora which was materially different in the way that it employs the way that it looks after its staff and in the world view that it continues to carry—so I'm asking the Minister with the officials by his side whether they are able to tell us exactly what that means and why it is important because of the anxiety that will affecting in the Minister's own words a health workforce that is under the pump. I think the Minister's words yesterday were that the health workforce is shattered."Well that is why this is important and I want to make sure that the Minister has the opportunity to address that so that as we continue to discuss these matters with those who are employed by Te Aka Whai Ora we can continue to support them. That's important because very soon we'll get to the title and commencement clauses and if the commencement date is not until June but this law is changing now we want to make sure that over the next four months those staff have a very clear pathway a very clear platform for the work they're doing in order to continue to serve our communities. So that's the question that I'm still seeking answers to. I want to thank the Minister though for his forbearance and his attempt to continue to answer the questions from this side. So in that vein let's start the day off well and that's my question to the Minister."