Brownlee Gerry: Customs and Excise (Budget Measures—Motor Spirits) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading In Committee Third ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeBrownlee Gerry: Customs and Excise (Budget Measures—Motor Spirits) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading In Committee Third Reading[Sitting date: 16 May 2013. Volume:690;Page:10340. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Transport): I am taking a call because I think the proposals that are being put by the Labour Party not so much by the Green Party and by the New Zealand First Party through the first two readings and now through the start of the Committee stage are completely wrong—Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. The rules around the Committee stage of debate are very clear and they are that it is a debate on that particular part of the bill. There have been no proposals put by New Zealand First or by the Green Party in the Committee stage because they have not even had a call yet.The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): I am listening very carefully and if there is any rebuttal the Minister can bring up those points. I am listening very carefully. He has just moved into the first few seconds of his speech and we will see what develops from there.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Are you ruling that a Minister in the chair can rebut the second reading and first reading debate during the Committee stage?The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): No. I am saying here that the Minister is making some initial comments and that is where we are taking it from.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: It is fascinating that the Labour Party thinks you can have a debate without a proposition. Grant Robertson is completely wrong in asserting that this move is all about the Budget and how it looks in years ahead. I want to take members back to the regulatory impact statement that they have all been provided with and I want them to look at their own history.From 1 January 2002 there were rate increases from Labour on both the petrol excise levy and the road-user charges. Labour had this sort of lumpy approach where it would simply put the rates up when it thought it could get away with it. So it would have a 2.8 percent increase followed by no increase for 2 years then whack the public about with a 13.8 percent increase. That was on top of the 2 years before where it was 8.4 percent. Then it sneaked around and let the fund run down to the bottom so that you could not do anything with it with 1.7 percent and 1.5 percent increases.What we have tried to do is to get over this sort of lumpiness. Labour went from 1.5 percent to 7.1 percent then to 6.6 percent and then to nothing. What we have tried to do is say to New Zealanders right up front that the cost of the roading network is one that is borne by the people who are actually using the roads—actually using the roads.Hon Trevor Mallard: 6.6 was National. That was National not Labour. Come on read it.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Now he wants to deny that the 2008 Budget had anything to do with Labour. That is not the case Mr Mallard. No wonder they are in trouble. They cannot even read the Crown accounts.I think that this mock outrage from Labour is exactly what it is—mock outrage. The idea that they are going to somehow sail into Government and then not put on road-user charges not put on excise tax is utter rubbish. What we have honestly said to New Zealanders is that here is a programme we are getting it done and these are the costs that are involved in it—right up front not this sneaky year-by-year thing getting away with what you think you can. It is a whole programme that runs out for 3 years.This idea too that it is all going into these roads of national significance—great that they are—is wrong. There is a lot of money going into public transport a lot of money going into local roads—all of those things are happening. [Interruption] It does not suit Phil Twyford’s rhetoric when he is talking to people in Auckland. He has actually bought into the idea that there is somehow a massive business case acceptable for the Auckland rail loop right now. What we have said to Aucklanders is that we want to consider the transport plan for Auckland and we want to work with them about the timings for the transport plan in Auckland. The member knows that because Len Brown has told him. Len Brown has told him that.We need to say we need to make it very clear that Auckland is the most important city in New Zealand. There is no doubt about that; it is an important place. But it is not the only city and we do need to spend in other parts.Phil Twyford: John Campbell got your number! He nailed you!Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: The member can sit there saying that his good friend John Campbell that well-known acolyte of the Labour Party has somehow got me into a tricky position. I am not aware of that. I find him an absolutely fair man to be honest—absolutely fair. The fact that he mixes with people like Phil Twyford is something that worries me but I am not going to make too many more comments about that as I want to come back to this Part 1.What Part 1 does is effectively say to New Zealanders that the roads they run on are becoming more efficient the vehicles they run are becoming more efficient we do need to fund these roads and here is a proposal for doing it. The cost of this will raise theprice for motorists by about $45 a year in the first year. You have got up there in Auckland the Victoria Park Tunnel you have got the Newmarket Viaduct you have got the Waterview Connection coming soon which people are very very keen on plus the other roading networks to be done up there.I am told by many people who use the new roads in Auckland that they are saving up to 20 minutes a day on their land transport journey. That is 20 minutes. If you price that out looking at what those savings mean they are extraordinarily large. Those savings are in excess of $250 a year for some of those people. When it comes to issues like the Christchurch Southern Motorway people tell me it is saving at least 10 minutes a day on their trip. That is having a very big financial impact on that city. You say to yourself: “Well what do we do if we take the horse-and-cart approach? What if we say we are going to put out just rail networks for ever?” We are already putting $1 billion into KiwiRail. Thank you for the glass of water Mr Mallard it is very kind of you. I do appreciate it. You may have found your station in life. You may have found your station in life. In fact with that jacket on you look a bit like a messenger.We are putting all of this money into the recapitalisation of rail because we know it is important. We are investigating Clifford Bay because we know it is important. We are funding with Auckland Transport all those new trains that are going in the urban network there. Yes there is a place for rail but there will always be a point where it is at its most optimum and there is not a business case that says it is a good idea for this current Budget cycle. But I want to tell you we are looking at all of those options with Auckland and there is plenty of time for things to be considered before we reach those peak difficult points. One thing I would ask is—Phil Twyford: Take 20 years Gerry. Take 20 years.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Well why would it take 20 years? Why is the Labour Party putting up a 20-year plan for Auckland and pretending that that is going to solve their problems overnight? It is not. It is a big big issue and everyone knows that Auckland is going to get bigger. It is going to grow by 600 more people a week over the next decade or two and we are going to have to have the roads that those people expect to run on. You can rail against that with your rail proposals as much as you like. The fact is that we are not seeing the trends that we need.The reality is that in 1944 when petrol rationing was at its peak during the Second World War New Zealand in real terms had its highest patronage of public transport and it has been falling off ever since. The tunnel loop is actually predicated on that number being reached again and then expanded several times over. So it is not a simple matter of just saying: “Let’s magic up $3 billion and build this tunnel and the problems are over.”—far from it. Frankly politicians on the left have got to stop trying to tell people that that is the case because it is not a deliverable.Part 1 is a very very clear attempt—in fact it is a very very clear message to New Zealanders that the Government wants to be up front about these charges. We are not hiding them. We are saying as has always been the case that the users of the roads pay for the roads. We actually told New Zealanders in December 2012 that we were going to do this.Phil Twyford: During the Christmas lull.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: And where was Phil Twyford? He had already gone on holiday.