Bennett DavidHon DAVID BENNETT (National): Thank you Madam Chair. Just following on from that last speech and an issue that Minister in the chair the Hon Nanaia Mahuta raised in her response before she talked about it being a Treaty requirement that this legislation effectively gives effect to. I'd like for her to explain what part of the Treaty that actually refers to because under my understanding of the Treaty there's no specific clause that would enable that to be taken as one of the three parts of the Treaty. So if she is relying on the Treaty for this then I'd like to see where it says that in the Treaty because in my understanding of the Treaty of Waitangi it doesn't give any explicit notification that there should be Māori seats and council wards or that councils could override democracy because the whole point of the Treaty was that everybody has a vote and every vote is equal and that all those votes then determine the government at whatever level—Chlöe Swarbrick: Tell us about the four sections of the Treaty David. Hon DAVID BENNETT: —local regional and central—and the Green members we'll come to them in a moment. But that is the preeminent part of the Treaty that we're all given equal votes. And then for the Minister to say that the Treaty is the rationale behind why the Government's doing this it needs explanation as to actually what part of the Treaty does give that right or responsibility to enable the over-erosion of democracy in our communities where people actually at a referendum make a decision—and it could be Māori and non-Māori voting in that referendum for or against the Māori seats in their council. I would think that that is a complete override of what the Treaty stands for and what it's about. So I'd like the Minister to answer that question and just give it a full explanation of her rationale of using the Treaty behind her reasoning as to why she's able to do what the Government is trying to do in this House today.The other issue that really I think the Minister needs to explain is the practicality. A lot of the public out there will be sitting here listening to this debate and they'll be thinking Why don't councillors and mayors actually promote this before they get elected?" You know "Why is it something that comes out post-election of a council and a mayor?" You know why don't they go out there and say to the public when they're getting on this local body election campaign "Look this is something I really want to achieve for our community"? Some do but a vast majority don't and then suddenly once they're in the position of power of being a mayor or councillor it becomes a part of the agenda. It will be fascinating to see the Minister's perspective on that as to why there is that change of direction by those councillors and mayors. We can all surmise as to why that might be the case—it might be something that they feel that politically they can't take to the public. But there may be other reasons. You know are there roles of negotiation within local and regional council that mean that mayors and councillors have pressures put on them that mean that they have to then look at opportunities to deliver for those pressures? And that could well be an example of why we suddenly come to this fruition at local government of a desire to have Māori representation in the form of separate Māori seats within the councils.So the Minister is very experienced in that area and I'd like to know her reasoning as to why we do see that change because I think the public out there would be very content if they actually knew what the rationale behind what happens is because they feel that they have only one voice and that voice is through the referendum process. The electoral process gives them an opportunity but that's every three years. The referendum process gives them an immediacy around decision making at local government and that's important in a democracy to have that immediate local body decision-making as well.So there are two questions there that I'd like the Minister to answer: first of all to explain her rationale in the Treaty and what part of the Treaty and how that actually relates to what they're doing here today; secondly why she believes councils and mayors suddenly change their tune after being elected and want to promote these kind of activities."