Andersen GinnyHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour): Thank you Madam Chair. I just have a couple of questions for the Minister of Justice because we did tease this out quite a bit at the Justice Committee but I think there's potentially been subsequent changes to what we saw at select committee. So I'm particularly concerned in clause 17 of Part 3 in relation to Breach of a dispersal notice". It specifies here that a person commits an offence if they've been served with a dispersal notice and then knowingly without any reasonable excuse associate with a named person in a public place during a period of time in which the notice is in effect. So that's effectively—and he might want to clarify; that's like a non-association order.So I just would like clarification that if there's three or more in a main street who are considered by police to be intimidating the public—once the police go through the process of telling the gang members that they're being issued a dispersal notice asking them if they have a valid email address if they offer one they can email it to them if they don't they'll then offer them to go down to the police station and print it off for them. Then once they say "You've been issued a dispersal notice" to those three or four members the next stage of establishing whether a breach has occurred is the part that I'm quite interested in—to understanding how that occurs.We weren't able to get the full answers out at select committee. While it will depend on potentially the police officer on duty and how long he's been on in duty in that area and how well he knows known gang associates or people affiliated with a particular gang the difficulty I perceive is that if those gang members do not give the correct identity do not give a Yahoo! or Hotmail email address at the request of the officer and also do not want to accompany the officer down to the station would the police officer then take a photograph of those members in order to be sure of their identity? Would that be the best practice possible? So they're able to be identified and then loaded into the National Intelligence Application (NIA) so that there's a flag in NIA to say "We believe" and name who they think they are and to match that with a profile that may or may not be—I understand—on the national gang list. So then once police have corroborated some intelligence along with local knowledge about what the names and identities of those gang members are then they would be in a position of establishing that a breach had occurred.So I guess these things may play out in the courts but it would be good to have an understanding from the Minister because if that is then punishable by—I think it's five years. Is it five years? Sorry six months—"A person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable" for conviction of six months and a fine not exceeding $5000. Its $5000 not five years. So then there's got to be sufficient evidence before the judge who's convicting for that offence that in fact it was the same person who in the first instance didn't have an email and didn't come down to the station and the police officer issued—that it was in fact that same person within the seven-day period who breached that dispersal notice.Also reading this they're also prevented from associating with one another. So say that those five gang members from the main street have all been issued with a dispersal notice and are subsequently at another house where they're not doing illegal activity but they are together and a police officer comes across them then how will the police officer prove how will the prosecution prove that in fact they are the two same members who should not be associating together who have breached that dispersal notice and are therefore liable for a six-month imprisonment period or a fine of up to $5000?I know these may seem quite specific and detailed for the Minister to respond to but I think it's really important that we have a practical understanding and—sometimes there's not clear intelligence about who's in a gang and who's not in a gang. That will have to be really importantly ironed out if people are going to be convicted for breaching these dispersal notices."