Naylor Jono: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — Second ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNaylor Jono: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — Second Reading[Sitting date: 28 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5345. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]JONO NAYLOR (National): I just want to start this contribution by putting the New Zealand flag into a little bit of context. From some of the speeches that we have heard from the other side of the House and some of the debate that we have heard from submitters at different times you would begin to think that this was the only flag that New Zealand had ever had. How could you ever possibly change the New Zealand flag because it is the only one we have ever had! What we do know is that this is in fact the third flag that New Zealand has had. But I think there is a really important thing to notice about the three flags that New Zealand has had. None of those flags were voted on or chosen by the people of New Zealand. Those flags were decided on by the Government of the day which decided to choose the flag which decided to tell the people of New Zealand what their flag would be. It denied them the opportunity of choosing their flag.It does not really matter to a certain degree whether you want to keep the flag or whether you want to change the flag. This referendum gives New Zealanders the opportunity to choose their national emblem their national symbol. It is not the Government’s choice. We have got these people who are saying “Don’t have a referendum. Don’t give the people the choice. Don’t let them choose to keep this flag or perhaps choose another one.” and they are simply going by the original decision of 1905 to impose this flag on the people of New Zealand. Let us face it. We are not saying it is a horrible flag. We are not saying that we are not proud of our country. What we are saying is that this is an important issue of national significance and it is one that the people of New Zealand will get to make a choice on.I think it is really interesting too that we are told that the people of New Zealand do not want this. This is based on opinion polls. I am just wondering whether the members opposite think we should just go by opinion polls. In February of last year the Colmar Brunton poll said that the National Party would have 51 percent of the vote if an election were held. I am wondering whether the members opposite would have been happy at that point to concede and just say: “OK let’s give the National Party 51 percent because that’s what the polls are saying. That’s what the people of New Zealand want and so therefore we’ll let the National Party have 51 percent of the vote.” I do not think they would have been quite so happy to quote the polls at that point. I do not think they would have been quite so happy to let the choice of New Zealanders be determined by a poll at that point. But no when it suits the agenda of members opposite when it suits their desire to impose on the people of New Zealand what their flag should or should not be then they want to go by the polls. They do not want to give the people of New Zealand the right to choose their emblem. They do not want to do that because they know better. I can tell you that we do not claim to know better and that is the purpose behind this referendum. The purpose behind this referendum is to allow the people of New Zealand to indicate to us what they would like for their national emblem. It is what they would like to take forward.Now that we are bringing this issue through now that it is on the table and we have got this bill before us there has been a lot of talk about the order of the questions. They have been saying that we should give people a yes/no vote for this one first before we ask about the others. I have spoken to quite a few people and am probably in this position myself as well who say that they are open to the idea of changing the New Zealand flag. I am open to the idea of changing the New Zealand flag but it will all depend I know from my way of thinking and the thinking of lots of the other people whom I have talked to on what the alternatives are. Lots of people would say “Well if you gave me a yes/no question at the moment I might say no.” because they are concerned that it might end up being a sheep with a rainbow coming out the back of it. If I had the choice between a sheep with a rainbow coming out of its bottom and the current New Zealand flag I think I would vote for the current New Zealand flag. I am pretty sure we all would—pretty sure we all would. However if we were going to get the choice between the New Zealand flag and one of those Kyle Lockwood designs then perhaps I might be more likely to choose or I might be more likely to choose something that at least has some other symbols of New Zealand on it.I just want to draw people’s attention to one of our submitters who I think summed up the idea of why it is important for us to do things in this process. We got a submission via teleconference from a young man called Jordan Ward. He raised the following concerns so if you will just excuse me I want to read out what he said. He believes in respect of the yes/no question and I think I agree with him that “electors voting ‘no’ to change in the first referendum”—or in the first part of that referendum—“may be less likely to express their preferences for an alternative design” which might come after. What we need to do is we need to simplify this. We need to keep it simple. We need to say to people: “If New Zealand were to change its flag which one would you prefer?”. It is a pretty simple question and it is pretty easy to understand. There is no problem whatsoever. At that point whichever flag is the winner would be run off against the current New Zealand flag. It is really simple and really easy to understand. It is really easy to comprehend. If you put that yes/no question at the very front end of all of that it makes life a little trickier because those people who have not yet made up their mind whether or not they do want to change the flag because they are waiting to see the alternatives will then be able to vote accordingly.I did a little bit of a search on New Zealand logos and symbols. People will have heard this comment made before. How many people have got a T-shirt with a New Zealand flag on it in the cupboard? Not too many. How many people have got a cap that has the New Zealand flag on it? Not too many. But if we look around we see the symbolism that is most commonly associated with New Zealand and we can look at a few different things. For example the New Zealand Air Force aircraft have a kiwi on them. That is what is on the side of our New Zealand Air Force planes. New Zealand Trade and Enterprise for example has a sort of a fern design. Actually what is on our New Zealand war graves is a silver fern. In fact even if we look at an organisation such as the New Zealand Labour Party within its logo it incorporates a fern not necessarily the New Zealand flag. So we need to have something I believe that is easily identifiable. That is just a personal belief. I think it is great. I think we need to give the opportunity for people to decide what is important to them.There have been a lot of great events that have happened over the years and we associate the current New Zealand flag with them. For example when Edmund Hillary climbed Mount Everest—oh wait; he did not take the New Zealand flag with him did he? He took the Union Jack with him. So we look at things like that. We see Olympians draped in our New Zealand flag and we feel proud. We feel proud of them because of what they have achieved not necessarily because of the flag that they have got around them. Whatever we choose whatever the people of New Zealand decide is going to be the most appropriate emblem to drape our Olympians in and to mark significant events with that is what is going to be important. It is going to be important that it symbolises what is at the heart of our nation. That is why this debate to my mind has been so important because regardless of whether we keep this flag or change this flag our nation will have been through hopefully a very mature discussion—well apart from the banter that I hear from the other side of the House which is not particularly mature or helpful.But we have been hearing some very good debate across our nation about what it means to be a New Zealander what it means to be a Kiwi and what is important to us as a nation. I hope that whatever flag we choose whether it is the one that we have currently got or a new flag we will be stronger as a nation more united as a nation and we will have a better understanding of who it is that we are what we represent and we will be able to move forward to be a great nation—an even greater nation than we are now. I look forward to the outcome of this bill to the outcome of the referenda and then for us to be able to move on together. Thank you.