9. Question No. 9—HealthJAN LOGIE (Green) to the Minister of HealthQuestion No. 9—HealthJAN LOGIE (Green): [Interruption] Thank you Mr Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Health and asks—SPEAKER: Order! Order! I'm sorry. I've just got someone who is going to withdraw and apologise on my left and add to the problems of the National Party.Simeon Brown: I withdraw and apologise.9. JAN LOGIE (Green) to the Minister of Health: What actions if any is he going to take to address the pay and employment concerns of care workers and allied health workers?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health): Homecare and support workers and allied health workers are two quite different groups of health workers whose current situations are also very different. With regard to care and support workers the main terms and conditions of employment for care and support workers is set out in legislation: the Support Workers (Pay Equity) Settlements Act 2017. Ironically given its title the legislation does not provide for pay equity claims to be made and in fact is not a pay equity settlement at all; the opposite is the case. The legislation prohibits a pay equity claim to be made for these workers until after 30 June this year; 30 June is also when parts of the legislation providing for minimum rates of pay and training obligations self-repeal. To address this I've been working with unions employers and officials to reach an interim arrangement that would increase and protect current pay rates and training obligations and set up a process to achieve what these workers have been fighting for for more than 10 years: pay equity. I last met with unions and employers on Friday.With regard to the allied health workforce these workers have been negotiating for a long time to renew their collective employment agreement. They also have a pay equity claim that has not been progressed since it was lodged in 2018. There is presently an offer on the table for renewal of their collective agreement that would increase base pay rates for these workers by $5700 a year—for most workers because for some actually the increase would be higher—and would also provide a lump sum payment of $2500. Late last year the union sought to add new claims for their collective agreement to effectively get pay equity benefits in advance of an actual pay equity agreement. One of the challenges with this group of workers is that across the roughly 10000 of them there are about 70 different occupations; anything from a trainee technician earning just above the minimum wage to a medical physicist on about $155000 a year. The average base pay for this group of workers to the extent that an average is meaningful is about $80000. The problem with the pay equity claim which is about addressing sex-based discrimination and remuneration is that some if not many of these workers may not see much difference in their pay. It's for this reason that the district health boards rejected the claim earlier this year for a $12000 lump sum payment for all workers in anticipation of the pay equity claim being settled. I continue to urge the union and employers to work on trying to reach a fair and principled agreement. The member will be aware that under the Public Service Act as well as the Cabinet Manual employers in the public sector must manage employment matters independently of Ministers.Jan Logie: Why did the Ministry of Health pull back from an offer to allied health workers that would have been consistent with findings from the Employment Relations Authority facilitator and that we are told by unions would have addressed the concerns of this essential workforce?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The offer contained a provision in it which was the commencement date for the implementation of agreed pay equity rates of pay that was contrary to an Employment Court decision handed down earlier this year that said that matters relating to pay equity claims should not be conflated with collective agreements.Jan Logie: So is the Minister saying if that clause was removed an agreement would be made?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The member is asking a hypothetical question. The matter is a matter between the unions and employers and indeed the officials who are supporting them. But there was a point at which the Employment Relations Authority made a recommendation that was contrary to a piece of law handed down by the Employment Court earlier this year.Jan Logie: Why did his Labour Government not make a plan to at least maintain the value of the settlement for caregivers—initially negotiated by a National Government—when they have known for years that this legislation will expire by 1 July?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: There is a plan. The plan involved working with the unions and employers to preserve and protect the benefits of the legislation enacted in 2017—with a modest increment—so that the real work of getting a pay equity agreement which is what these workers have been seeking for 10 years now can get under way.Jan Logie: Why has Cabinet only mandated enough money to offer care workers covered by the Care and Support Workers (Pay Equity) Settlement Act an increase of less than 70c an hour for 18 months when an increase of around $7 an hour is needed to maintain the value of that historic deal following the Kristine Bartlett case?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: If the member is referring to a historic deal as one that prevents them from getting a pay equity deal that is a very interesting proposition from the Green Party. I stand by the actions of this Government to protect the interests of these workers: to get them an interim arrangement so they can get on with doing what they and their forebears have been fighting for for more than 10 years and that is a pay equity agreement.Jan Logie: Does the Minister stand by his comment that I get very disturbed when I [hear] the stories and there have been a lot of them of nurses and other clinicians finishing their shifts absolutely exhausted and finding it really hard to go back to work the next day." and if so will he ensure allied health and care workers get the pay increases they deserve so that the health system might be in a decent position to transition on 1 July?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: If the member thinks that in order to honour the underlying principles of pay equity and the Equal Pay Act means that we pool together 10000 workers of such disparate arrangements and pay levels that some for whom it cannot be established are subject to sex-based discrimination should get the same proportionate benefits as those on very low incomes who clearly are the victims of sex-based discrimination then what she actually stands for is undermining pay equity principles and we're not going to do that."