Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:635;Page:6204] 
3.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: How does she reconcile her speech to the Labour Party conference stating the aims for New Zealand “to be the first country which is truly sustainable” and “to be carbon neutral” with the record of her Government since 1999? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Easily as reference to many policy initiatives would show. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Can the Prime Minister explain to this Parliament what she means by saying that New Zealand should be carbon neutral and when she intends New Zealand to meet that goal noting that newspapers like the  
Sunday Star-Times 
 have stated that the goal of stabilising emissions is formidable and that carbon neutrality is sheer fantasy? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Carbon neutrality is a very ambitious goal and is not easily achieved but I note that the member himself stated in a speech a number of years ago that his vision was for New Zealand to be environmentally sustainable. I agree with him. Perhaps a little more bipartisanship on some of these issues would be a good thing. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Noting that the Prime Minister has encouraged a more bipartisan approach on these issues could she explain to the House why when I wrote to the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues on 22 December last year on behalf of the National caucus suggesting that a bipartisan approach on climate change be taken we did not even have the courtesy of a response? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Members are entitled to be heard when they ask their questions and when answers are given. If there is any more barracking members will be leaving the Chamber. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: My understanding is that following such a letter the Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues did indeed meet with Dr Smith. That was then followed by a series of quite partisan attacks from Dr Smith. If Dr Smith wants to make a fresh start let us hear about it. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Is the talk not a little out of step with the walk when the Prime Minister talks of carbon neutrality a goal far more ambitious than has been set by any other country but when figures released today in Nairobi under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change show that in the 7 years she has been Prime Minister New Zealand emissions have grown at one of the very fastest rates in the OECD? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I do not believe that it is any more ambitious than the member’s own vision that New Zealand should be ranked the No. 1 nation in the world in environmental sustainability. Of course we have issues with rising emissions and it would be nice to see some of the initiatives being promoted by the Government supported on a bipartisan basis rather than being systematically shot down including the carbon charge. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Is the talk not out of step with the walk when the Prime Minister tells the Labour Party conference that afforestation is a key priority but when during her 7-year tenure as Prime Minister forest plantings have dropped in every single year to the point where in 2005 we cut down more trees than we planted—something that has not been achieved by any of the 12 Prime Ministers preceding her—and when during the same period Australia has been able to achieve substantial afforestation? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Prior to Christmas a set of options around sustainable land management will be put out for consultation. Those options will of course include proposals around afforestation reforestation and land use. I look forward to the National Party rather than just putting up its hands for incentives looking at a balanced lot of policies that might take the country ahead on the issue. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How does the Prime Minister’s aim of New Zealand being carbon neutral sit with her Government’s decision to spend $150 million of public money in 2002 on a new oil-fired power station at Whirinaki to support the decision by the State-owned enterprise Mighty River Power to build a 320-megawatt coal-fired power station in Whangarei but to reject the Dobson hydro scheme on the West Coast and the 540-megawatt Project Aqua; are not all four of those decisions made by her Government contributing to the climate change mess that is now such an embarrassment for us in Nairobi? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I would be surprised if the member were seriously suggesting that thermal capacity should not be part of the mix. As the member knows the Government has put in place policies that have greatly accelerated the building of wind energy projects. Frankly there is no difficulty in reconciling those positions; there is far more difficulty for Dr Smith in reconciling the fact that he is being led by a climate change denier. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: To the Prime Minister— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What does John say? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Actually he says a hell of a lot more than the Prime Minister does. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member just ask the question please. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does the Prime Minister believe that New Zealand would be better served by a Prime Minister like herself who talks big about the climate change crisis but does nothing and who has presided over the worst increase in emissions of almost any country or by a person who has honestly stated that the science is not 100 percent but that the risks justify action who has consistently backed afforestation and renewable energy projects and who has from the Opposition benches this year led a party to announce a far more comprehensive policy on climate change than the Prime Minister has been able to deliver from the Government in 7 years? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I must say that I am unable to recognise such a person on the Opposition benches. Further I note that the pretender to the throne has also cast doubt over whether global warming is a problem. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does the Prime Minister accept responsibility for the series of policy gaffes over climate change that has seen a billion-dollar bungle over New Zealand’s Kyoto balance; for a fart tax announced but then dropped; for a carbon tax announced but then dropped; for a tendering process for renewable energy projects launched but then abandoned; for a policy of negotiated greenhouse agreements initiated but then stopped; for an energy efficiency strategy whose results are worse than when we did not have a strategy; and for the fact that 7 years into her tenure as Prime Minister everyone from the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment to the Green Party to industry says we have a complete vacuum in New Zealand on climate change policy? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Of course that statement is completely untrue. Many initiatives have been taken many are in the process of being taken and many more are being proposed. The National Party far from having a comprehensive policy has no comprehensiveness in its document at all. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Will the Prime Minister as a first step on the way to the ambitious goal of making the New Zealand economy carbon neutral recommit to the goal in the Government’s 2002 climate change package of putting New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions on a permanent downward track by 2012; if not by what date does she believe we will be on a permanent downward track towards zero? 
Hon Member 
: Very good question. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Good question. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: That is a good question because we will need rather more bipartisan agreement across this House to get that on track. It is a bit rich for the National Party to attack every environmental initiative made by this Government and then to complain that there has not been more progress. That is absolutely ridiculous. If the National Party had been prepared to back Labour and the Greens on a carbon charge we would have one today. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I ask you to consider the Prime Minister’s answer. Everyone thought that was a great question. We were interested in the answer but the Prime Minister basically said that she did not have the numbers to govern and that if she had the support of the National Party maybe Labour could back up its rhetoric and its goals with some policy. But that was no answer whatsoever. The question was about a timetable. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: As the member himself indicated the Prime Minister did address the question. It may not have been to the satisfaction of everyone in the House. 
Hon Harry Duynhoven 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In the middle of the Prime Minister’s answer there was a lot of barraging. I admire Mr Hide’s hearing; obviously it is better than that of those of us over here because we could not hear the answer at all. Just earlier you indicated that people would be thrown out for barraging during Ministers’ answers especially answers by the Prime Minister. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I could certainly hear but members are on notice. 
Keith Locke 
: Given the Prime Minister’s Labour Party conference statement that more public transport is needed to reduce climate change will she be supporting the Green Party’s member’s bill to increase steadily the proportion of the National Land Transport Fund devoted to public transport cycling walking and travel demand management? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have not seen the details of the Green Party’s bill. What I do know is that this Government has been massively increasing spending on public transport. 
Keith Locke 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I thank the Prime Minister for that answer but my question was about what she is going to do in the future—in the context of the forward-looking speech she made at the Labour Party conference—and whether she will support an approach of steadily increasing the public transport proportion of the National Land Transport Fund. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I do not know whether the Prime Minister wants to add anything but I thought the question was addressed. But it might help the member— 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Far from steadily increasing it we have been massively increasing it. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave of the House to table the figures from the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change showing that New Zealand emissions have grown faster than those of any other OECD country since Helen Clark has been Prime Minister. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave of the House to table figures from the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry that show that New Zealand has had net deforestation for the first time since 1953. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Has the Prime Minister sought any advice on by how many years the conversion of the Marsden B power station to coal would set back our progress towards zero net emissions of carbon; if not will she seek this advice and will she do anything about it? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: No; I have not had such advice but I assume that the answer would lie in how often it was used. 
Keith Locke 
: I seek leave to table a chart of National Land Transport Fund figures showing that expenditure on public transport is projected to decrease over the next 10 years. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection.