Hayes JoJO HAYES (National): Thank you Madam Chair. I want to take a call on clause 59 Subpart 8 of Part 2 of Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 25 Emergency benefit: discretionary grant on ground of hardship". On reading through—that's clause 59(5) amended by the SOP—I've noticed that the Minister for Social Development has deleted quite a few of the options in this particular part of the bill. I just want to talk a little bit about that because I think that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) finds it difficult enough for declining clients. Emergency benefits are there for that reason. But I think that amended subclause (5)—"MSD may on a case by case basis make the grant of an emergency benefit subject to any conditions imposed by MSD."—does put MSD at risk. There is no other option for them to be able to go back to use for granting an emergency benefit. As I can see through this SOP there are only clauses 59 and 60 that deal with emergency benefits. I don't believe it is wide enough for MSD to be able to make a decision.I think the whole area around "subject to any conditions imposed by MSD" is the issue so therefore I'm supporting Alfred Ngaro's SOP 31. SOP 31 says "MSD may on a case by case basis do either or both of the following:". So that's either to "make the grant of an exceptional circumstances benefit subject to any conditions"—similar to subclause 5 in the bill—or option (b) "impose on P the work-test or work-preparation obligations (and associated sanctions) attached to the equivalent benefit (if MSD is satisfied that P has the capacity to comply with those obligations)." By looking at this SOP I can see that it does actually give MSD an option—an option to be able to make a decision and also to be able to be accountable for the granting of the emergency benefit.We have to understand that some people are pretty expert at being able to get emergency benefits—that's not all people; that's just some people. As I've said before in my past contributions benefits are there to help people during a rough time; however we need to make sure we have various things in place to ensure that the people that really need these emergency benefits are going to get them and that there is a test in place that will actually support MSD staff to ensure that the granting of this emergency benefit is going for the right reasons to the right applicant who is not being seen to be taking advantage let's say. So that's why I stand here and support Alfred Ngaro's SOP 31. I think it has good wording in there. I think that it does give some protection and another option for MSD staff to be able to make a decision around the granting of an emergency benefit.The second point that I also want to make around supporting proposed amendments is around Brett Hudson's winter energy payments. I think that we need to have some additional options there on the table for those that are eligible over the winter period for the winter energy payments. I think that an option for providing for additional home insulation or heating sources is great. I think that if the person is under this particular clause that Brett has put forward—I think that there needs to be some flexibility around those winter energy payments. I hope that a lot of the applications etc. are fairly straightforward for superannuants. I discussed this with my mother on Sunday on Mother's Day—a great discussion at Mother's Day lunch—[Bell rung]CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): I apologise to the member for our timing—we got the clocks wrong.JO HAYES: Sorry?CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): I apologise to the member. We got the clock wrong so I've just indicated the end of the call. Does the member want to continue?JO HAYES: Yes Madam Chair thank you. Thank you very much. Sorry I was looking at it and thinking it was going a bit slow.As I said I was discussing this with my mother over the winter energy payments. She's 86 years old—she'll be 87 this year—and she seemed all confused about it. Therefore I just hope that the process for winter energy payments should they come into being is going to be fairly straightforward for our kaumātua. It's quite confusing. But I think that in clause 65E inserted by SOP 25 "Winter energy payment: instalments rates and payment" Brett Hudson's amendment to insert new clause 65E(2)(c) "for recipients who have nominated to use their winter energy payment for additional home insulation or heating sources" is a good option. I think that if you add winter insulation into there it will actually—if you look at it it should actually reduce heating expenses for those who have the insulation put in. I think that that's really good. I know that many people do watch their power bills. I know that my mother watches her power bill over the winter time. I'm still not sure whether or not her house is fully insulated. She's renting a flat but I've been talking to the landlord about that to make sure. I know that if he was given this option to under the winter energy payments get some sort of payment there for insulation that would go a long way towards reducing the amount of times my mother has to use the heat pump in her home.Based on all of the other winter energy payment amendments that this side of the Chamber has put in there are some very sound arguments about where to from here for winter energy payments. I think it would be very good for the Government to actually accept some of these options in this bill especially around as I say winter insulation and options around Alfred Ngaro's SOP to do with the emergency benefit. I think that as I said benefits are there to give people a hand up not a handout and I think that we need to be able to empower MSD to make sure that they can get their protections in place and their kind of lists of things to be able to grant an emergency benefit wholly knowing that they have done all their checks and balances. So as I said my contribution now comes to an end. I thank you Madam Chair."