Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:611;Page:8827] 
5.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Is it important to maintain separation between the administrative operational and political arms of the Police; if so why? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 It is important for there to be no political interference in the activities of the police. That was reinforced in 1993 by the Solicitor-General in an authoritative statement on the position in New Zealand which said that the Minister may not direct the commissioner in his or her duty to enforce the criminal law. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If that is true and if that is the precedent why was the file of Danny Alkema who rode a trail bike on the grounds of Parliament in May of this year to protest the Government’s law and order policies taken from the Lower Hutt police station to Wellington on the same day I raised that case in Parliament; is that not an extremely suspicious coincidence or is it just a blatant act of further political dabbling in the affairs of the police? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I have no role at all in terms of where police files go and I am not about to help your conspiracy theory. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You might find that answer acceptable though of course it is an accusation about yourself not about me— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There was a comment made in the second person. However I presume the Minister was not referring to me but to Mr Peters. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. He used the word “your” and you know full well that it is you he is talking about in terms of our Standing Orders and parliamentary precedents. Secondly if he was referring to me that is out of order as well. I am not talking about a conspiracy; I am talking about facts. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If I were to interrupt every single person who made an error of grammar I would not have many people answering questions. The member was in error in what he said but I accepted that his intention was clear. He has now said what he meant to say and that is where that matter rests. 
Georgina Beyer 
: During the Minister’s time as Minister of Police has he ever instructed the police on any criminal case? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: No. 
Richard Worth 
: Would it be grossly improper for a senior police officer to have discussions with the Minister’s private secretary for police concerning politically sensitive issues including the laying of charges against members of Parliament? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: My private secretary for police does not get involved in these matters. For example there was a case where the leader of New Zealand First did not pay a taxi fare. We then had a newspaper article sent to Parliament saying that two people in Otago were fined $300 plus court costs of $30 for not paying a taxi fare. I did not interfere in either case. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was just a personal attack. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the question that was asked. If that is the way you are going to let this House run I warn members over there that they will get all they ever ask for—they can be certain of that. If you want to try that sort of trick you will get whatever you want. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Do not say if I want to try; I have not done anything. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Your job was to stop him when he was clearly not making any attempt at all to answer the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The end of the answer was out of order; the Minister should not have gone along that line. He started off OK in addressing the question but thereafter he went out of line. 
Richard Worth 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The result was that the question was not answered. It started with the words “Would it be grossly improper for” and the Minister made no effort to answer that direct question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Perhaps the Minister could just answer that one part. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I do not get involved. My staff do not get involved in criminal actions nor do they interfere in criminal cases. I think that that member over there realises that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Did any member of the Minister’s staff in his office see the details of that file either before or after Tuesday 16 September; and have any discussions between staff in his office and the police taken place since then about that file? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I can say that my office does not get police files. We do not read them. I have no interest in them. I have confidence that the police will do their job. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: To the Minister’s knowledge did any members of the police have discussions with the Speaker or anyone in his office since the file was pulled from the Lower Hutt police station on Tuesday 16 September; and will he table that file and the telephone logs recording the timings of those messages in the House? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I do not have that file and I do not have the log of phone calls to the Speaker. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Since Danny Alkema is happy for this document to be tabled I ask the Minister whether he will make it available to this Parliament—instead of having some sort of snow job where the details are not given to anyone and the decision is handed down from high and that is it. We want the facts here. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I am not about to start getting police files to satisfy the political ambitions of other members. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Do you think that is an adequate answer? This House wants to know what happened because the two stories that have been put out in public are at gross variance and cannot be reconciled. I have asked for the police file and the log of a man who came to me and was happy for those details to be tabled. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I say to the member that I have already made a ruling about part of that issue. I thought the Minister most definitely addressed that particular question. He gave an answer that was quite explicit and I understood it. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am asking whether the Minister will with Danny Alkema’s consent have that information tabled. To get up and say that he does not handle those files is not an answer at all. I am asking whether he will with that person’s consent obtain the file and table it in the House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thought the Minister said he was not prepared to. That was my clear impression of what he said and it is also the impression of those about me.