4. Question No. 4—Social Development and EmploymentDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader—Te Paati Māori) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 4—Social Development and EmploymentDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader—Te Paati Māori): Point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave of the House to transfer my question back to the Prime Minister who made the statement in question and is the only one who has responsibility—SPEAKER: Order! That's not a matter for which leave can be sought. That's been ruled on many times and can I make a suggestion: if the member's considering doing something like that again in the future she consults so she doesn't make this mistake which has been regarded as being disorderly by Speakers in the past.4. DEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader—Te Paati Māori) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by the Prime Minister's statement Absolutely—I wouldn't dispute that for a moment" in response to Fairer Future who said that "people on a benefit should be able to participate fully in society" and what specific new initiatives if any have been agreed to reduce poverty amongst beneficiary w'ānau?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Yes I do and that's why we've increased support for low-income New Zealanders. Our winter energy payment which kicked in on 1 May helps over a million New Zealanders every year. Our main benefit increases have been the biggest in a generation and our 1 April changes further improve support for families through minimum-wage increases our family tax credit increases and increasing access to childcare assistance. Under this Government 66500 children have been lifted out of poverty. We also know participation is more than just income. We have halved public transport costs agreed to a new Ministry for Disabled People and increased investment in Mana in Mahi and Māori trades training. As I've always said there is still more to do.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Is she concerned with reports that beneficiaries including single mothers are paying up to a quarter of their income to service Government debt that was incurred to cover basic needs like food and bills and if not why not?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: This was something that was raised through the Welfare Expert Advisory Group's report and is an issue that we take seriously. The debt that beneficiaries have with regards to Government agencies usually lies with not only the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) but often also with the Ministry of Justice and sometimes with Inland Revenue as well. We currently have a work programme under way with respect to debt to Government and how we can manage that better across the system to ensure that Government debt is not further driving New Zealanders into hardship.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: What is your response to the proposal from the Fairer Future coalition to wipe out all debt owed to MSD given that during COVID beneficiaries were forced $400 million further in debt to the Government itself and that realistically the debt is uncollectable?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The legislation is really clear with regards to client debt in that the ministry or a Government can't just wipe someone's debt unless the debt was incurred because of a mistake made by the Government agency and through no fault of the client. And so we have no intention to at this stage change the legislation and therefore it's not an option that's currently on the table.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Will she prioritise more support for beneficiaries including through increasing their income removing sanctions and individualising benefits in light of the reality described by Assistant Māori Commissioner for Children Glenys Philip-Barbara that "While some families are feeling the pinch others are barely clinging on"?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We have increased benefits—first in 2020 when the pandemic first set in and then again last year post-2021 Budget—with the full extent of the benefit increases being realised on 1 April. We have addressed some of the most serious sanctions and gotten rid of them. Two in particular had huge consequences for children. There is still more to do with regards to our welfare overhaul and we're absolutely committed to doing that. What I will also add though is that addressing some of the needs of our most vulnerable New Zealanders is not just about addressing their needs through the welfare system; it's important that we are equally putting a focus on and prioritising things like housing our health system our education system and that's what we as a Government are doing.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: What are the Government's plans to reduce food costs for low-income w'ānau including beneficiaries given that vegetable prices increased 19 percent in the year to September 2021 and food book usage more than doubled and will this include breaking up the supermarket duopoly?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: This probably falls out of my delegation and really sits more with Minister Clark who has been undertaking some work in this space. However what we have done that I can respond to more fulsomely with regards to our Government's responses we have rolled out our Food in Schools programme. That's ensuring that our tamariki are getting access to healthy kai on the daily. It's also saving money for those whānau that have children in low-decile schools. We've also invested heavily with regards to the New Zealand Food Network with the intent of—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Minister has answered the question some time ago."