Smith Nick: Waste Minimisation Bill — In Committee 
Smith Nick: Waste Minimisation Bill — In Committee 
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Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
: 
 We know that the Government is falling apart at the seams when we have these sorts of desperate— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Clause 1. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Madam Chair— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: The member will take his seat please. I want to say this very clearly. This is a debate in the Committee. It is a very limited debate on clause 1. [ 
Interruption 
] Do not talk while I am talking. It is a limited debate on the title. So far it has been carried out with integrity. Please may that continue. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: My point is simply with respect to a very important amendment that has been put forward by my colleague Nicky Wagner that attempts to amend the title of this bill. Now the Leader of the House Dr Cullen has informed the National Party that Labour will vote for the amendment if we stop the debate. I ask the members opposite whether the principles of this Government the desperation of it falling apart and the basis of it voting or not voting for amendments have now come down to the desperation of the Government wanting to shut down the debate. I just think that that is the most extraordinary thing that I have seen in 18 years as a member of Parliament. This Clark-Peters Government is falling apart at the seams with deals being offered across the Chamber about amendments. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Is the deal about the bill? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Yes it is. It is about an amendment Madam Chair if you had listened. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: I have listened. Take a seat please because I really am concerned at the games that are being played. This bill has been worked out in such good spirits that to have this last speech about whether one is taking leave and not concentrating on the arguments about a change or no change to the bill but on process is actually taking away the intent of this argument. I ask the member to come to the intent of the argument—[ 
Interruption 
] Sorry sit down please because I am still ruling. Would you come to the intent of this debate which is about whether we should have this change and not on the process to close down the debate. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. You are engaging yourself in the debate. The facts are absolutely clear. Nicky Wagner has moved an amendment. Dr Cullen has informed National that it will vote for that amendment if we shut down the debate. It is perfectly proper in debate for me to refer to that sort of deal because I think it is a very poor way in which this Parliament should pass the law of the land. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: I am not involving myself in debate. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: You are. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Withdraw please. Do not tell me what I am or am not doing. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: No I am on my feet right now. You actually criticised me while I was on my feet responding to your point of order. Please take a seat. I have been reading the Standing Orders quite carefully and the Speakers’ rulings. My job is to maintain the rules of the House. The rules of the House state that in Committee we debate what is in front of us. We do not debate process. You are bringing in—and I could see exactly what was happening—a debate on process. The debate that is before the Committee is an amendment by Nicky Wagner on the title of the bill not on the reasons for who is voting for that title or why but on the actual title of the bill and the arguments behind resource recovery or waste minimisation. I ask you— 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. Could you clarify in the light of what I think would be a unique ruling from the Chair in a debate about whether Nicky Wagner’s amendment is passed reference to a deal that has been offered by the Government that it would support that amendment if National stopped taking calls is a perfectly proper thing to refer to in debate? It seems to me that it would be extraordinary if the Chairperson is now to rule that such matters of fact— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Thank you take a seat please. I refer to the argument’s relevancy. In the Committee of the whole House it is the Chairperson’s job to allocate and to rule on relevancy. I say that a debate on procedure is not relevant to this particular debate and my rule is final. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I just think we have an extraordinary state in Parliament where we have— 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: It is always extraordinary for you Nick! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Well we know that Dr Cullen’s Government is falling apart and we know that this New Zealand First - Labour Government is in serious pickle with the events today. We know how desperate the Government is to try to advance the last bits of legislation. National says to the Government that the principle over the title of a bill has now come to the point of simply the casual deals that Dr Cullen in his dying days as Leader of the House is trying to advance. 
Nathan Guy 
: The gagging clause! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: It is the gagging clause as my colleague Nathan Guy would want to present it. This Government really is in its dying days and it goes into this compromising of standards over an amendment! We should be having a debate about the merits of my colleague Nicky Wagner’s amendments— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: I agree. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Well I would be interested but the Government has not taken a single call. Its members have simply told us they will vote for the bill if it is advanced as quickly as possible. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Would you come to the point please. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Oh the point Madam Speaker is this— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Madam Chair! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Madam Chair Nicky Wagner has done an outstanding job as a member of the Local Government and Environment Committee and during the Committee stage of this bill to knock this bill into legislation that will be workable. National seeks the support of the Labour Party for Nicky Wagner’s amendment not on the basis of some backroom deal but on the basis that it is a perfectly sensible and proper amendment. This amendment from my colleague Nicky Wagner is about including the concept of resource recovery. It is National’s view and an important part of implementing this bill that in the regulatory processes being put in place around product stewardship around the waste levy and the like we take care not to cut across the very good work that is going on all over New Zealand both by local government and small business. 
By changing the title of the bill and making it plain that it is about resource recovery as well as waste minimisation we think that is a constructive change to the bill that this Committee should adopt. We want an approach around this legislation that actually supports and does not undermine the efforts of many of our councils. It is interesting that many of our smaller councils have taken a far stronger lead around issues of waste in supporting the efforts of many enterprises like those in the scrap metal industry that are doing very good work around resource recovery. 
So I tell Dr Cullen that I seek the support of the Labour Party for Nicky Wagner’s perfectly sensible amendment. We seek its support on the basis that the amendment makes a better bill. We do not seek that support on the basis of some procedural issue that Dr Cullen wishes to wind up in respect of the Committee. So I say that Nicky Wagner’s amendment is one of which this Committee should support— 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: One of which we should support! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Yes it is; she has advanced— 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: You should study the English language— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: Order! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Oh well it is interesting that the Chair thinks that such interjections about the— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Marian Hobbs) 
: I said “Order.” I called for order; please continue. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I thank you for that. Nicky Wagner has advanced a whole series of very sensible amendments to this legislation and we would like to get the support of the Committee for this further amendment to the title that will include the concept of resource recovery which we believe is the right sort of philosophy to adopt when advancing law in this area. 
I hope that members of this Committee will choose to support Nicky Wagner’s amendment and ensure that we give this bill the best title possible.