Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Madam Chair. I've got a logistical problem here which I'm just trying to deal with—everything's folding over. Thank you Madam Chair.So we come to Part 3A which is in relation to default bargaining parties. The question here is in relation to what happens if a default bargaining party particularly doesn't turn up. And we've had this rather confused answer earlier in the debate from the Minister around the fact that Business New Zealand is effectively the default bargaining party and is the group most likely to represent—I'm sorry; I'm just trying to find the exact phrase—the largest number of employers. So is the implication that if any time that they don't voluntarily take up the position the fair pay agreement process is immediately sent off to the Employment Relations Authority for them to adjudicate and just decide? And all this part is supposed to deal with situations where that happens and the process by which the Chief Executive of the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment works out that the bargaining side hasn't been formed.I suppose I want to start off with that broader question of how the Government thinks this is a fair process to impose on New Zealand businesses and companies and workers. Because what we're saying is regardless of whether companies and employees want to engage with the process—and again we're thinking of the little cleaner operation in Haast or the superette in the Hokianga; they're busy they're trying to find workers they've got all sorts of problems and trouble and strife and life and business is not easy. In Haast they're looking for tourists and in the Hokianga they're just trying to find somebody to buy their bread and milk and so forth. And they're supposed to be somehow engaging in this process or some part of some group that is going to represent their interests. The expectation is that the Minister is supposed to identify the employer party that is the most representative organisation of employers in New Zealand which is Business New Zealand.Now if they have decided in their wisdom not to want to be—and also are perfectly entitled to do then what happens? It's still not clear to me whether another business group could turn up and then make the case; say it was retail workers—whether say Retail New Zealand which is not an organisation that has been in the habit of negotiating agreements such as this. So it's a whole new sort of task for them. But for example if they decided to put their hand up and say Well we'll be the bargaining party." can that happen? Can the Minister say that they are the most representative body under that test back in Part 1? I'm not sure. But if not and if nobody puts their hand up then the chief executive goes through a little process—not much of a process; a little process—to determine that nobody's turned up. Now it's a fair question to ask how thorough the chief executive has to be in figuring out how many how many people he has to ask. Does he knock on how many doors to find out just whether or not there is anybody there? But I'd be interested to know what the Minister thinks of that and whether he's got it right."