O'Rourke Denis: Fair Trading (Soliciting on Behalf of Charities) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
O'Rourke Denis: Fair Trading (Soliciting on Behalf of Charities) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
[Sitting date: 27 June 2012. Volume:681;Page:3441. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
DENIS O’ROURKE (NZ First) 
: 
 New Zealand First also supports the amended Fair Trading (Soliciting on Behalf of Charities) Amendment Bill as it now is. The original bill clearly had some significant problems. It was in particular very complex and it was difficult to work out how the various percentages would apply in various circumstances to organisations. I am a member of a charitable trust board in Christchurch that exists exclusively for the purpose of raising money for other charities. When I looked at the complexity of the original bill I had to wonder where on earth we would fit in that particular regime. I think that was one of the main problems with the bill as it originally was. If it had been enacted as it was I think that when some of the charitable organisations that exist in the community looked at it they would have had a lot of trouble working out where they fitted in and what their liabilities were. That of course means that it was bad law. It would have been bad law because it was not readily understandable and people would not know what their liabilities were. It is very important that there be clarity and certainty around laws of this kind especially when we are dealing with charities. 
So it was that complexity I think that was the main problem with it but it was also too inflexible. Any amendment would have had to come through the system of the Committee of the whole House and that would have been time-consuming and difficult. There would have had to be some flexibility to deal with that whole array of different charities with all their different needs and attributes that we find out there in the community. 
I really do applaud the Commerce Committee for the current iteration of the bill which provides for comprehensive regulation. I do think that is the way to go. I note that there are eight areas of regulation in the bill in new section 28A(1) in clause 4. Those include regulations for prescribing requirements for disclosure of information about the fund-raiser about the charitable organisation itself and about the relationship between those two parties which can be very different in nature. Also included are the financial benefits the fund-raiser would receive directly or indirectly from the process the amount of the donation included in the price of goods and also how the disclosure will take place and how the financial benefit must be calculated and expressed. Finally included is the financial benefit that the fund-raiser would not be required to disclose. If there are good regulations on all of those eight subjects then I think we will have a good and understandable regime for charities and their fund-raisers to comply with. 
All of this is fine and will provide for a good outcome but I do not really believe that it is enough in itself. I believe that what we really need in the future is also some actual limitation about what can be deducted from charitable donations for expenses and for profits. Perhaps that could be done by way of guidelines and additional provision for other regulations along those lines could be made in the future. It is too late for that now of course but when the Fair Trading Act is revised as it is intended to be shortly then I would like to see some consideration given to that sort of concept. The reason for that is the same as some other speakers have said and that is to give people confidence that when they make a donation most of it will actually go to the charity rather than to profits or to expenses for those who collect donations on behalf of charities. When you think about the sophisticated ways that fund-raising happens these days—online donations automatic donations and all sorts of other methods—then it is very important that we have even more controls and regulations than we see in this particular bill. That will give people the confidence that I spoke of. 
In making the regulations that are set out in this bill great care will be needed to make sure that the needs of a great many different organisations are provided for. There is a whole array of different charities out there with different attributes and different needs. It will therefore be very important indeed for the provision in the new section 28A(2) in clause 4 for consultation to be comprehensively carried out and it needs to be that outreaching sort of consultation rather than just waiting for people to come to the Minister of Consumer Affairs or the Minister’s representatives. That consultation will be absolutely vital if these regulations are actually going to work in practice. 
Lastly I would like to mention just this: there are bound to be some issues with some of the definitions in new section 28A(5) in clause 4 and I will mention a couple of them that I think we need to keep an eye on. The first is the term “fund-raiser” which is defined as being a person in business. I mentioned at the beginning of my speech that I am on a charitable trust board that exclusively raises funds for other charities so I am not quite sure whether that charity would be a person in business for the purposes of this regulation. We will have to take a good look at that later on. 
Another term that I think we will have to be careful about is the term “makes requests”. I see that the term “requests” is defined in the bill as well. I think the definition should be wider to also include unsolicited receipt of donations by providing a facility for people to make donations rather than the definition that is there at the moment. However when as I said before the review of the Fair Trading Act does take place we can look at whether these definitions have provided any challenges and if so we can refine them as we need to refine the regulations themselves when we take a good look at how this has proceeded. 
I look forward not only to the passing of this bill but later to the full review of the Fair Trading Act and in particular the new provisions that we might put in it to refine and improve the provisions of this bill. But the bill as it is I think is right in its direction in simply providing for a regime of regulations to be developed as a result of comprehensive consultation and that is the key. Thank you.