Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10244] 
6.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: How many 3 and 4-year-olds currently attending kindergartens does he expect will receive 20 hours’ free early childhood education? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 As I have noted previously the data is being finalised. It is my intention to release full details as I have said frequently broken down by the type of service how many centres are in the scheme how many children are benefiting and where they are. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Do you know anything? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Yes quite a lot. 
Katherine Rich 
: When the Minister says that the data is being finalised is he trying to tell the House that although this policy is going live on Monday he has no idea how many kids will actually receive 20 free hours’ early childhood education? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The member has asked this question frequently and on each occasion I have encouraged her just to relax. The policy is under good control. I think the Ministry of Education has done a very good job on the policy and it has been processing the centres and the numbers. As I have said frequently the policy is to be launched on 1 July. I know that the member is eager to see it because I know that her leader is aspirational about it. I will make sure that those figures are made known to her as well at that time. 
Moana Mackey 
: How many 3 and 4-year-olds currently attending kindergarten does he expect would qualify for a childcare tax deduction? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Very few. Many kindergartens are no longer asking parents for regular donations because of the 20 free hours policy. If it were scrapped kindergartens would have to go back to asking for donations but donations would not qualify for a childcare tax deduction. Moreover many parents in the situation where one parent stays at home with the kids would be disqualified. Based on a recent New Zealand Council for Educational Research survey it appears that two-thirds of kindergarten households are in that situation which would make a childcare tax deduction meaningless. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Can the Minister confirm that when the ministry surveyed all early childhood education providers it arrived at an average cost of provision of $6.40 per student hour and that the actual subsidy being offered ranges between $11.10 per student hour for a fully qualified teacher service down to $3.20 per student hour? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I can confirm those figures. As the select committee was told—a meeting at which the Opposition spokesperson was present—the Ministry of Education surveyed all centres and got a 56 percent return. The peer reviewer of that research said that a 25 percent return would have been adequate to get an accurate picture. So the ministry gained a very very good picture of the current costs being incurred by the sector and those are the figures that it arrived at. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister confirm that from next week the bulk of the kids that he will be counting as receiving 20 free hours will be kindy kids who were technically receiving a free service anyway; if not why not? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: That is a very good point. I refer the member to the general manager of the Central North Island Kindergarten Association who recently told the  
Waikato Times 
: “I must correct the impression … that the Government has always provided 20 hours of free hours to three- to four-year-olds at kindergarten. In fact parents have always had to meet the cost of day-to-day running of kindergartens by making donations paying fees and fundraising.” And as the Lower Hutt Kindergarten Association has pointed out the days of that happening are over because under this policy they now get stable funding 4 months in advance. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Does the Minister still stand by his belief that this policy has been sold well; if he does how does he explain the amount of angst that it has created? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I have to say that the policy has had a few debates over the past few months but they can be traceable to essentially three people. Two of them are in the House and one of them is the chief executive of the Early Childhood Council. If anybody else was to be asked—Irene Cooper of the New Zealand Educational Institute researchers like Linda Mitchell people like Nancy Bell who run services or the many people who run kindergarten associations around the country—such people would say they have simply gotten on with it. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister confirm that next week he will be counting 43000 children who are already receiving free early childhood education through free kindergartens across the country as kids receiving 20 free hours when the parents of those children either will receive no financial gain as a result of his policy or in some cases will actually be paying more for early childhood education? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I do feel that this member has never really understood this policy so I take her back again to the general manager of the Central North Island Kindergarten Association who said that 20 free hours have never been available to this category of young person. The parents have raised money they have paid donations and they have paid fees all across the country. Right now the Lower Hutt Kindergarten Association for example is charging nil to its parents whereas before they fund-raised paid fees and made donations. I am looking across at Mr Simon Power the father of a young child; he will be looking forward to not having to do that when he enrols that young child in a kindergarten association. 
Paula Bennett 
: How does the Minister respond to those parents currently receiving a Work and Income childcare subsidy who have now discovered that they will be worse off and will end up paying more under something that is supposedly free? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Parents whose children go to early childhood centres and get a Work and Income subsidy will of course benefit. If they get 20 free hours they benefit. But the one thing they must fear is a childcare tax credit which would mean they would lose heavily. A beneficiary for example would get nothing. But they should also fear the sheer confusion that surrounds all of the policies from the National Party and of course they should expect that a flip-flop is about to arrive. 
Paula Bennett 
: How does he respond to one mother who receives a Work and Income subsidy who describes as bizarre the fact that under the 20 free hours policy she will be $15 per week worse off; and another who states: “I work part-time and am a solo mum who currently pays $30 per week. If I opt in for 20 hours free scheme I end up paying double which I can’t afford.”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: All I can say is that the member has turned up in the House with a number of hypothetical cases. If she would care to give us any of those kinds of situations we would look at them. But usually we find out she is wrong.