Baldock Larry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Baldock Larry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:618;Page:13715] 
6.  
LARRY BALDOCK (United Future) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: What is the distinction between a civil union as proposed and a marriage conducted in a non-religious context? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister of Justice) 
: 
 There are a number of clear distinctions between a civil union as proposed and a marriage. For example marriage has always been and will continue to be available solely to a man and a woman unlike civil unions that are available to different and same-sex couples. As well civil union partners will not be referred to in legislation as “husband and wife”; those terms will continue to be used exclusively for married couples. Thirdly marriage celebrants are not required to perform civil union ceremonies. 
Larry Baldock 
: Can he confirm media reports that the proposed Civil Union Bill will enable couples to transfer from a civil union to a marriage and vice versa; and if so does this not just confirm that there will be very little difference between marriage and civil unions except that one does not apply to same-sex couples? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I can confirm that the bill contains a clause with that effect in both directions at the present time but as members of the House will be only too aware whether the final form of the legislation is in that shape will be entirely determined by its progress in the select committee. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: What other changes to the Marriage Act are proposed by the Civil Union Bill? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The answer is “None”. The proposed Civil Union Bill does not change the Marriage Act. The institution of marriage remains solely available to a man and a woman and the terms “husband and wife” and “marriage” are not removed from any legislation. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Minister not agree that the heart of the issue is that this bill gives rights to same-sex couples and that the parties in this House opposed to the bill simply do not believe that same-sex couples should have any rights at all and believe that they are not entitled to equal treatment under New Zealand law? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I do agree with the proposition put forward by the questioner but I would add that Government members have made a decision that the Civil Union Bill and its companion bill will be a conscience matter. I read in media reports that the major Opposition party the National Party has made the same decision and I would encourage other parties particularly United Future to give such freedom of choice to their members. 
Larry Baldock 
: Can he confirm that under the Marriage Act couples are free to get married wherever they like and with as much or as little religious ceremony as they like; if so does this not make a nonsense of one of the justifications for the Civil Union Bill—namely that it allows couples to pledge their commitment without the trappings of marriage? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: Yes and no. I refer the member to the editorial comment in the  
Nelson Mail 
 which says: “This is a bill appropriate for the times recognising the reality of relationships instead of attempting to deny their existence.” 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Apart from the terms “husband and wife” and the term “marriage” itself not being available to those in a civil union what other aspects unique to marriage at the moment will be excluded from those in a civil union? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The proposals in the Civil Union Bill and its companion bill are predominantly about the protection of rights of individuals in our community. There are no victims in this legislation and I do not believe that most New Zealanders mind people having rights and protections for the relationships they choose for themselves. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You will probably give the old story that the Minister has addressed the question but this is a fairly important issue. It is not party partisan. It is as the Minister has informed the House something that people should exercise their consciences on. I asked the Minister a very specific question and I got an answer that was more to do with the mechanics of how the bill will pass than with the question itself. I asked him simply what other aspects that are currently unique to marriage might be denied to people in a civil union. I would have thought the Minister in charge of the bill might have a list in front of him. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member is perfectly correct. He did ask that question but I thought the Minister at the end of his reply addressed the question. 
Peter Brown 
: Is the Minister aware of any protests by United Future members that indicate they feel so strongly about this bill that they will withdraw support from the Government or is it a case of much noise in public and silence where it counts? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister is not responsible for the United Future party. 
Peter Brown 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member must word the question so it is in order. I will give him another chance as it is Thursday afternoon. 
Peter Brown 
: With respect I asked the Minister whether he is aware of any approaches by—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will now stand withdraw and apologise. 
Jill Pettis 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That will be the last comment that she will make this question time. When I listened again to Mr Brown’s words “Is he aware” in relation to the actual bill I think the Minister does have responsibility. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am able to confirm that the normal objective and friendly relationship continues to exist between the United Party and the Government. 
Larry Baldock 
: Can the Minister confirm that the marriage legislation amendment bill recently introduced into the Australian Parliament would expressly deny legal recognition of the civil union of New Zealand couples and does he think that that will serve as a barrier to those considering a civil union when couples could simply marry and not face the same problem? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am not aware of the legislation the member refers to. However I can confirm that the civil union proposal will not apply outside New Zealand jurisdiction.