edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Little AndrewAPPOINTMENTSIndependent Police Conduct AuthorityHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice): I move That pursuant to section 5 of the Independent Police Conduct Authority Act 1988 and section 32 of the Crown Entities Act 2004 this House recommends to Her Excellency the Governor-General the reappointment of Simon Peter Wallace Murdoch CNZM and the appointment of Elizabeth Mason Sinclair MNZM each as a member of the Independent Police Conduct Authority for a term of five years.The Independent Police Conduct Authority is established by the Independent Police Conduct Authority Act 1988. Its job is to investigate complaints against the police concerning any practice policy or procedure of the police. They're also responsible for investigating any incident involving serious bodily harm or death notified to the authority by the Commissioner of Police. Under section 5 of the Act there are up to five commissioners appointed by the Governor-General on the recommendation of the House of Representatives and one member is to be appointed as the chairperson of the authority. That person has to be a judge; that role is full-time. That role is currently occupied by District Court Judge Colin Doherty.The two members who it is recommended Parliament recommend to the Governor-General for appointment: Simon Murdoch is a longstanding former public servant and since then has occupied a number of roles in a governance role in the Public Service; and the other is Elizabeth or Liz Sinclair as she's known who has over 30 years' public sector experience 20 of those in executive leadership roles in large complex operational agencies. She brings to bear on this role considerable experience and judgment.
Hipkins Chris; Brownlee GerryTHURSDAY 7 MAY 2020The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.Prayers.BUSINESS STATEMENTHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): Thursday 14 May is Budget day. The Minister of Finance will deliver the Budget statement at 2 p.m. following which party leaders will speak to open the Budget debate. I have indicated to the Business Committee that I intend to move urgency to progress a number of bills following that. I expect urgency to extend at least into Friday 15 May. Should New Zealand remain at COVID alert level 3 or higher those plans will be reviewed.Next week the House will also consider the remaining stages of the COVID-19 Response (Further Management Measures) Legislation Bill and the Immigration (COVID-19 Response) Amendment Bill. The Government is also likely to bring forward further legislation relating to New Zealand's response to the COVID-19 pandemic.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): Can the Leader of the House give us an indication if that further legislation is required to give effect to level 2 provisions as announced by the Prime Minister?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): That is likely.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): Does that mean that there would be some urgency taken to pass that legislation prior to an expected announcement of going to level 2 next week?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): I imagine that any legislation required to move to a lower COVID alert level would be progressed through the House very quickly.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): Do we take it then that if the decision is made on Monday to move to level 2 at 11.59 p.m. on Wednesday evening it would be in the two days of House sitting Tuesday and Wednesday that we would see that legislation passed?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): At that point that's a hypothetical question but of course the passage of any legislation required to give effect to level 2 and the process for that will be the subject of further discussion.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): Just to be clear can we take it then that there will be no decision to go into level 2 without the legislation?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): No the member can't take that from my comments.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): Perhaps I could make it clearer. If the legislation supporting the moves that have been announced as level 2 conditions is not passed before level 2 is announced or the start date of level 2 would that be the position? Or do we have to have that legislation passed before level 2 can commence?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): Without necessarily getting into the hypothetical situation too much I would envisage that the legislation is likely to be around the enforcement of conditions at level 2.
Wednesday 6 May 2020 - Volume 745
12. Question No. 12—HealthGREG O'CONNOR (Labour—Ōhāriu) to the Minister of HealthQuestion No. 12—Health12. GREG O'CONNOR (Labour—Ōhāriu) to the Minister of Health: What public health measures have contributed to the decline in new cases of COVID-19?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health): Collectively New Zealanders have done an outstanding job to bring COVID-19 under control. In the last week there have been just 14 new confirmed and probable cases identified. There are a range of factors that have driven our success but key among them is the response of all New Zealanders to the restrictions placed on them as part of the alert level system. The lockdown use of physical distancing and people staying within their bubbles have resulted in New Zealand managing to stop community transmission of COVID-19 for now. Our challenge is to maintain that as we see more parts of the economy open up and more people moving about in the community. Ongoing high levels of testing and effective contact tracing will continue to be key elements of our strategy.Greg O'Connor: How is testing for COVID-19 progressing?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: New Zealand has capacity to process more than 8600 tests per day and has completed more than 160000 tests. As at 2 May for every 1000 people in New Zealand we have conducted 30 tests the same rate as Germany and more than Singapore the United Kingdom and South Korea. Testing rates for Māori and Pacific peoples remain high. The latest data I have shows that Māori make up 16.1 percent of tests and Pacific people 8.2 percent. District health boards are also identifying higher-risk populations such as healthcare workers and border staff for targeted testing.Greg O'Connor: How important is it for the public to continue to observe the rules of COVID-19 level 3?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: As encouraging as our progress is we can't afford to take anything for granted. We need everyone to continue to play their part. Stick to your bubble; observe physical distancing and good hygiene practices; stay home if you are sick; and if you have any symptoms of COVID-19 seek medical advice and get tested. I want to thank the public once again for their collective efforts and their commitment to stamping out this virus and by doing so saving lives.
9. Question No. 9—Commerce and Consumer AffairsKIERAN McANULTY (Labour) to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer AffairsQuestion No. 9—Commerce and Consumer Affairs9. KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: How is the Government protecting consumers who need access to credit?Hon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): The Government has fast-tracked measures to protect people experiencing financial hardship from high-cost loans that can trap them in debt. These measures include the cap on interest and fees to a maximum equivalent to the principal of a loan known as the 100 percent cap"; the prohibition of compound interest on high-cost loans; and the $30 limit on default fees. These measures were originally due to come into force on 1 June but were moved to 1 May in urgent legislation last week. Some may think that that's only a month but it is obvious many Kiwi families will be going through difficult conversations and decisions about their finances right now. And if they're looking to borrow the Government wanted them to have the full protection of our planned regime in order to ensure safe borrowing.Kieran McAnulty: Why was it important to fast-track these changes?Hon KRIS FAAFOI: These are obviously very difficult and financially stressful times for many families around New Zealand. If people need to take out any new loans from high-cost lenders the changes we have fast-tracked make sure they're protected from getting trapped in debt spirals. While it was critical to make these changes I urge anyone facing financial difficulties to explore options before taking on any high-cost loans. They can talk with their lender about alternative payment arrangements contact Work and Income for financial assistance or get in touch with their local budgeting service for advice.Kieran McAnulty: When will the rest of the Government's consumer credit reforms take effect?Hon KRIS FAAFOI: On account of the disruption for lenders and their customers because of COVID-19 we have allowed for the broader system of changes to commence six months after the date that it was originally planned—so the new date is now 1 October 2021. These include significant reforms relating to all lenders such as new affordability regulations certification of directors as fit and proper persons and directors duties."
6. Question No. 6—EnvironmentKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour) to the Minister for the EnvironmentQuestion No. 6—EnvironmentKIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour): What action is the Government taking—Hon Paul Goldsmith: Don't get cocky Grant. SPEAKER: Order! I think that's the fourth time—Hon Simon Bridges: It wasn't me. SPEAKER: Sorry it wasn't the member? Maybe the member's getting the blame. I apologise to Simon Bridges for looking at him for the interruption that Mr Goldsmith has made but maybe it's infectious.Hon Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is a genuine point of order. You have suspended the reduction of supplementary questions at this period—SPEAKER: No. No I haven't; I've just been softer all right? I'm—Hon Simon Bridges: You're a good man. SPEAKER: Oh the member does tempt fate.6. KIRITAPU ALLAN (Labour) to the Minister for the Environment: What action is the Government taking to support employment following the COVID-19 epidemic?Hon DAVID PARKER (Minister for the Environment): An important element of this Government's COVID-19 rebuild plan is a law change to fast-track eligible projects under the Resource Management Act (RMA) to help get New Zealand moving again. The primary purpose of the plan is to bring forward employment opportunities. We went hard and early to beat the virus and now we're doing the same to get the economy moving too. The success of our health response gives us a head start on the world and this fast-tracking process will enable our economic recovery to follow. The new processes will get projects started sooner and people into jobs faster but Part 2 of the RMA will still be applied to protect the environment.Kiritapu Allan: What sorts of projects will the legislation support to get up and running quickly?Hon DAVID PARKER: We want to spread new employment opportunities throughout the country in a wide range of projects. Projects which could benefit from quicker consenting include: roading walking and cycling rail housing sediment removal from silted rivers and estuaries new wetland construction flood management works and projects to prevent land erosion.Kiritapu Allan: What safeguards will be in the legislation?Hon DAVID PARKER: The primary purpose of the plan is to assist New Zealanders to obtain employment as we recover from the economic impacts of COVID-19. We're helping by getting projects up and running but also ensuring that Part 2 of the RMA continues to apply and that Treaty obligations national directions and district plans are also upheld. As Minister for the Environment I will filter projects through to an expert panel and that panel will in general approve projects and in all situations set conditions to ensure environmental standards are applied. The panel will have a cross-section of expertise required to make decisions quickly. It'll be chaired by a current or former Environment Court judge. There will be the opportunity for some written input as applications will be shared with a named group of NGOs from a range of sectors and that will be done as applications are put to the panel.
5. Question No. 5—Social DevelopmentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 5—Social Development5. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Can she confirm reports that the Ministry of Social Development is preparing for a further 300000 benefit applications?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development: I'm advised that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) is planning for a wide range of scenarios to ensure that those who need help in these extraordinary times can get it. Increases of up to 288000 would be possible under one of Treasury's more severe economic scenarios released on 13 April. That scenario has already been dismissed by the Government and that is not what MSD is currently planning for.Hon Louise Upston: How many of the 300000 new benefit applications will be for Jobseeker Support?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I think I answered that in my first question.SPEAKER: Yeah well—yes.Hon Louise Upston: Does she accept that if we reach an unemployment rate of 13.5 percent which is Treasury's best-case scenario we will have nearly half a million people on Jobseeker alone?SPEAKER: Order! I'm going to ask the member to ask the question again. I think there was an assertion in that question which even I know is wrong.Hon Louise Upston: Does she accept if we reach an unemployment rate of 13.5 percent as Treasury has forecast under its best-case scenario it is nearly twice the figure that the Minister quoted earlier?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I reject the assertion in the member's question.Hon Louise Upston: What action is she now taking to prepare MSD to support half a million Kiwis getting back to work?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The Government has engaged in a very comprehensive programme across Government to ensure that there are opportunities available for people who find themselves out of work both to provide them with immediate financial support where they need it to provide retraining opportunities where those are needed and to ensure that they can get back into work as quickly as possible. There is a whole range of initiatives—I could spend a few hours outlining them all for the member if she'd like.Hon Louise Upston: What advice has she received if any on the health and social impacts of half a million Kiwis requiring the unemployment benefit?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The Government is doing everything it can possible to avoid that scenario.
1. Question No. 1—FinanceGREG O'CONNOR (Labour—Ōhāriu) to the Minister of FinanceORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Finance1. GREG O'CONNOR (Labour—Ōhāriu) to the Minister of Finance: What actions has the Government taken to support businesses and households to respond to COVID-19?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): The Government has taken decisive and considered action to support New Zealand through the COVID-19 pandemic. To date the wage subsidy scheme has paid out more than $10.6 billion to more than 1.7 million workers. Our $3 billion tax refund scheme put into law last week will start paying out in the coming days to support viable businesses with cash flow and to meet costs like rent. The loss carry-back scheme had 161 applications within its very first hours of operating. These measures are being complemented by the Small Business Cashflow Loan Scheme which will begin operations next week; the Business Finance Guarantee Scheme; and a range of other measures. All of these measures are designed to keep as many New Zealanders in work as possible and cushion the blow on households and businesses.Greg O'Connor: What recent reports has he seen on employment in New Zealand?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Statistics New Zealand today reported the number of employed people rose by 19000 in the March quarter while the number of unemployed was up by 5000. The employment rate rose to 67.5 percent while the unemployment rate also rose slightly from 4 to 4.2 percent remaining near its lowest level in a decade. The fact that nearly 20000 New Zealanders entered work in the first three months of this year shows the economy's underlying strength heading into the COVID-19 pandemic. Wages were also rising at an annual rate of 3.6 percent with average ordinary-time hourly earnings up $33.14. All of these things reflect the position New Zealand was in before the worst of COVID-19. It was a strong position and it will enable New Zealand to come through this crisis well.Greg O'Connor: What reports has he seen on the economic recovery post - COVID-19?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Bank economists are forecasting a more rapid economic recovery post - COVID-19 than the global financial crisis (GFC). They anticipate four years of above 5 percent unemployment whereas after the GFC there were eight. Westpac has said that countries that have had early success in containing the virus like New Zealand China South Korea and Australia are likely to see a quicker rebound. This faster rebound backs our decision that the best economic response was a public health response. As we've said all along we will get through this together.
Hipkins ChrisSITTINGS OF THE HOUSEHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: A point of order the Hon Chris Hipkins—a welcome point of order. Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I seek leave for the House to adjourn until 2 p.m. tomorrow. SPEAKER: Is there any objection? There is none.The House adjourned at 5.21 p.m.
Child Support Amendment Bill — First Reading
Hipkins Chris; Mallard TrevorBUSINESS OF THE HOUSEHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): I seek leave for the time limit for the annual review debate to be extended to five hours and 20 minutes recognising that we went 20 minutes over our allocated time today. SPEAKER: Well not many other Ministers could do that. Is there any objection to doing extra time to make up for it? There appears to be none. That is so agreed.
McAnulty KieranKIERAN McANULTY (Junior Whip—Labour): I move That the committee report progress. Motion agreed to. CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): I will report progress on the bill and can I echo the Minister's comments that I think this has been the best session that we've had. We've had another one good session. House resumed. Progress reported. Report adopted.
Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Thank you Madam Chair and I'm happy to make a few wrap-up remarks. I'll just quickly touch on the issues around tertiary students that have been raised at the end of this debate and acknowledge both members who have done that. Obviously there's some big-ticket items that have been raised in here and I can't make any commitments around that but I do acknowledge that there are some tertiary students who are experiencing financial hardship at the moment and we're working on further measures that will support them. I also want to acknowledge that for many of those who work part-time in order to supplement their income during their study those jobs have often disappeared but for others they've increased—there's quite a lot of work for tertiary students in supermarkets at the moment. But actually many of the other jobs have evaporated during the lockdown period and that has put a number of tertiary students into hardship. I acknowledge that and I hope to have more to say on that soon. With regard to halls of residence again I'll reiterate the comments that I've made: I find it utterly unacceptable that some of the operators of halls of residence have claimed the wage subsidy and have continued to charge students. That is simply unacceptable and they should not be doing that. Finally I think this has been a very constructive conversation about education-related matters so can I thank all members for their participation in it and end by echoing the comment that many other members have raised which is to thank the education sector as a whole for rising to the challenge. If you'd have said to me two months ago that standing here now we would have the vast majority of our education system and the vast majority of our learners learning at home using remote learning I would have thought that that would be impossible to achieve in that period of time and yet they have risen to the challenge and they have done that. I take my hat off to them and I thank them for the level of dedication passion and commitment that we have seen in that response.
Brown SimeonSIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga): Well thank you very much Madam Chair for the opportunity to take a brief call in this debate. I do just want to add my comments and acknowledge all of the teachers educators and principals across our country but in particular in my electorate of Pakuranga who are working so diligently at this very difficult time to keep our schools and our early childhood education centres going and are continuing to provide the excellent education that they do every single day. I'd like to just touch my comments and questions in regards to the tertiary support package which the Minister of Education has recently announced and also touch on some of the issues which students are facing in this post-COVID world. The world has changed dramatically in the last six seven weeks since we were last here in this Chamber. So firstly I would like to touch on the tertiary support package which I think has received underwhelming feedback from most sectors of society and particularly from students—a package which essentially seeks to allow students to take on an extra $1000 in student debt to be able to support themselves through these difficult times. I do just want to touch on the comments that the Vice-Chancellor of Victoria University Grant Guilford gave to the Epidemic Response Committee yesterday where he said that he had requested the Government to look at a student hardship fund to support students at this time. He said to the Epidemic Response Committee that he has yet to receive an answer. I'd like to ask the Minister what consideration he has given to that request and when an answer may be given to universities and to students to support them through this difficult time. The second point I would like to add in relation to that is the issue which is facing many students across the country who are having to pay for university halls of residence whilst they are not able to access them at level 3. That has received very strong responses from members of Parliament across this House. I would like to put on record my appreciation to Victoria University for changing their stance but other universities are still yet to do this. Again it comes back to: will there be further assistance and a student hardship fund made available so that this doesn't have to continue and so that students don't have to have the stress and pressure that this is providing at this very difficult time? Thank you.
Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): I thank the member for his comments. With regard to fees-free I think there are a few things in there. One is to look at the administrative costs. It is quite a large number of students who benefit from that and the administrative cost of fees-free is a fraction of the administrative cost of the student loan scheme for example. So all forms of student support do have some cost in administering them. With regard to that link between fees-free and apprenticeships I'd encourage him to listen to the comments of some of the industry training organisation chief executives who have actually said that it's been a good recruitment tool for them and they have got more people into apprenticeships as a result of fees-free. I want to be clear: the Government's not made any decisions at this point around future expansion of that policy. We'll have announcements to make on that in due course but we've not made decisions on that yet. With regard to apprenticeships I do just want to make one comment which is I'm very attuned to the fact that when the economic going gets a bit tough apprentices can find themselves susceptible to that. We'll be working very hard to make sure that firms that have apprentices—particularly those who've got apprentices who are early in their training—are kept on board because we don't want to see the number of apprentices going down as we've seen in previous economic cycles because the economic going gets a little bit tough. So I'm looking very very closely and talking very closely to the sector about how we can support those apprentices to stay in their apprenticeships. Hon Member: E Te Māngai—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): I'm aware of the timing. The Minister is happy to continue? Hon Chris Hipkins: Yeah.
Reti ShaneDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei): Thank you Madam Chair. The last point I want to talk to is fees-free and clearly we've had issues with fees-free right from the very beginning. We just fail to believe that it is the correct tool to increase participation which was the promise. We see less learners before than after and we understand that that fits with the economic cycles but the bare facts stand as they are. We have studies out of Canterbury as I recall where the vast number of students—94 percent—said fees-free wasn't critical for them actually attending university and here we are now where we're maybe going to increase our national public debt to maybe 50 percent of GDP and the administrative cost to fees-free last year was $7.523 million just administering fees-free. That's a lot of money for a programme that we're contending isn't doing the job and isn't the right lever for the outcome that was proposed. Now the Minister has in previous statements said Oh it's been wonderful for apprentices." I want to contest that. Apprentice numbers have gone up although under the Reform of Vocational Education the projections from a number of officials were that they'll go down by about 2310 as I recall in what was framed as the short run and the medium term. But through annual review I think it was very interesting that when this was posed to the chief executive that relationship between fees-free and apprenticeships his reply was—and I quote—"I don't think that we can yet ascribe a correlation to fees-free." I think that's a really important point because I know the Minister's been keen to talk about the increase in apprenticeship numbers and make that nexus back to fees-free but his own ministry in annual review was saying there is none. In the broader discussion it was "We need to wait longer." to be fair. So it's none now; maybe in the future—who knows? But right here and now that is not a statement that can be made. So I want to put it to the Minister that he reflect and review the current coronavirus situation that we are in where public debt will be increasing substantively. We would contend that fees-free wasn't a suitable tool before coronavirus came along and even more so now with competing demands and competing resources we think this is even less suitable as a tool for the objectives he was wanting to reach. Will he consider standing it down?"
Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Yes as the member will be aware the New Zealand Qualifications Authority (NZQA) has put in place a programme that allows for offshore delivery. It was put in place at speed and I think NZQA have been balancing two competing interests here. One is to set the threshold sufficiently high to preserve the credibility of our qualifications system and I think we'll all agree that that's really important. We don't want to see providers offering a substandard remote learning experience to people offshore that might then tarnish the reputation of New Zealand qualifications and the New Zealand education system overall. But then by the same token it is to make the process not too onerous and there's a real tension between those two things. With more time I think it will almost certainly be the case that lessons can be learnt out of the experience to date and that that process can continue to be refined.
Reti ShaneDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei): Thank you Madam Chair. I'd like to move to where the Minister talks about new models of delivery and I'd like to extend that and talk about the offshore online delivery and the hurdles that a number of organisations are expressing to us. So this is a really good example. I think the ministry did very well to say Look we can't bring you into New Zealand but there is some part of what we can do that you can do online offshore" and so the temporary offshore online delivery application process was put in place. It's a temporary approval through to 30 June and the issues we have with that—it's a good programme but the case being made to us is that the application approval process is very cumbersome. It takes a lot of time. Every new programme needs to be approved with the potential on 1 July for completely needing to be redone as a new full approval with those long compliance times as well. It would seem to suit the bill. It would seem to be suitable; it would seem to help keep our international students in mode with a view to eventually coming onshore. My question to the Minister: is he aware of the hurdles and can he take some action around that?"
Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Madam Chair I thank the member for his comments and I think if I could begin by acknowledging that yes indeed there have been no international students testing positive for COVID-19 I think that he will join with me and I hope all members of the House will join with me in rejecting some of the xenophobia that we have seen around Chinese people in New Zealand in particular. It's completely unacceptable. I know that some Chinese international students have been on the receiving end of that and I send a message to them saying that that is not New Zealand that is not our view as a country and that we're very sorry that a small minority of New Zealanders have chosen to express those views. In terms of the quarantine arrangements the quarantine discussion with the universities before we reached level 4 was based on if you like an enhanced self-isolation model and the Opposition themselves were among those calling for something that went a lot firmer with regard to closing the border than self-isolation—wanting a sort of a hard quarantine if you like at the border. So we will have to go back to the sector and discuss what a hard quarantine as opposed to an enhanced self-isolation model might look like. But as I've said we do have some time to do that. We'll work constructively to do that as quickly as we can though so that we can get international students back into New Zealand. There are some new models for the sector if they wish to pursue them that could see real spin-off economic benefits to wider parts of the New Zealand economy including looking at whether some of the resorts that we've got currently mothballed around the country could be used as a quarantine environment for what we'd call high-value wealthy international students who might come to New Zealand looking for a premium experience—particularly in the English language sector for example. So there are some opportunities there for the international education sector to be partnering with parts of the tourism sector that may take a bit longer to get up and running again because quarantine will be a barrier for them. It may well be that they can partner together in order to be able to offer a really high-value product to potential international students to New Zealand one that's really attractive and one that showcases the very best of New Zealand. So the Government is very happy very keen and very eager to be an active partner in that process. So in terms of the member's question about a specific time frame I can't really put a specific time frame on that because that's going to depend on us getting a package that both will be financially viable for those delivering it but also provides the public health reassurance that I think all New Zealanders are going to be looking for. But certainly once that can be developed the Government is willing to work with the sector to make it happen. CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Do you want to continue Dr Reti?
Reti ShaneDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei): Thank you Madam Chair. It's a pleasure to speak to this debate and to pull out some of the key points from the annual review of which I'll make three points and three questions for the Minister. First of all I do want to go to international students. I want to talk to the part from the annual review that came from that in some of his answers today of which he's already given some substance around the questions we're raising. But obviously we're very interested to know when international students—particularly in the tertiary sector—can return to New Zealand and I actually would like him to make a commitment as to when that might be. We have to imagine that if we go back to around about February with the discussions the ministry and the Ministry of Health were having with Universities New Zealand they had substantively reached an agreement. It was a collaborative agreement. Each university had said Yes we can quarantine effectively." and everyone was happy with it so I would submit that certainly before we went into full lockdown we were actually ready to go. But even more so I would submit today that the universities are ready to go. As Grant Guilford commented to the Epidemic Response Committee yesterday yes they could safely quarantine and I think it's really important we understand that context. There has not been one Chinese international student who's tested positive for coronavirus in New Zealand. There has not been one international student who's tested positive for coronavirus in New Zealand. Let's look at our market competitors. Canada have kept their international student borders open. International students have choice. We would like them to come here. We've got substantial competitive advantages. It's our lifestyle it's our course costs it's our post-study work visa—it's all of these things. But they can make choices. They can go to Canada they can go to Melbourne they can go to other places and this part of our export market is so critical. It often hides behind the big names the tourism and the red meat and dairy but behind that it's No. 4—$5 billion through our economy—so it's very very important. I would submit that universities are ready to go and ready to quarantine and so what I'm asking the Minister is: will they be first off the rank or when will international students be able to re-enter New Zealand for that really important part of our economy? While I speak and use universities as the example our polytechnics are also indicating this is their key impact measure for coronavirus as are private training establishments and you've heard my colleague the Hon Nikki Kaye talk about the international student impact on schools. So my question to the Minister is will international students—initially maybe to universities—be first off the rank when the borders are open; does he agree that universities as he understands it at the moment in their quarantine proposals are suitable as we best understand it; and will he prioritise them and commit to when international students can come back to New Zealand?"
Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Thank you Madam Chair. I just want to thank the member and I do want to genuinely thank her for her constructive engagement in this process. We've spoken a number of times on the phone particularly before the lockdown began at level 4. I do want to thank her for raising the right questions and I think that's been really important. Very quickly around extra support for schools with COVID-related expenses: we've obviously been playing a little bit of catch up in some of these areas in things like IT for example where some schools went out and purchased additional devices as quickly as they could before the lockdown began so that they could dish them out to their students and then we came in a wee bit later with an extra scheme. We've been clear that we'll reimburse the schools for those extra costs so that they're not disadvantaged relative to the schools that didn't do that and waited for us to be able to supply that support. We are able to provide additional support with things like extra cleaning where that's required and with hand sanitiser and those sorts of things. In terms of kōhanga reo the member mentioned the Budget—watch this space. There has been a big funding inequality there for a long time. I think kōhanga reo grew much faster than anybody envisaged it growing. No Government has ever really kind of caught up with the sector and that needs to happen. Then finally around giving the confidence to parents I do want to echo the member's comments there and I think that she's right. It's important that we raise questions and that we get answers to those questions but that we also give parents confidence. The final point is around personal protective equipment (PPE). The one thing I would say is that PPE is good if it's used properly but actually PPE is a risk if it's not used properly and one of the biggest debates that you'll hear happening up and down the country at the moment is around face masks and that actually the vast majority of people who are wearing them are wearing them wrong. It means they are increasing the risk because if they're wearing them wrong they give themselves a false sense of confidence but also if they're touching their face more because they're wearing a mask they're actually increasing the risk to themselves rather than decreasing it. So if you know how to wear a face mask it's a good thing to do but if you don't you're actually increasing the risk.
SpeechHon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central): Well look I have just a few comments in response to the Minister's comments. I think that what we have seen from our early learning leaders and our principals and our educators has been enormous civic duty. Many of them see the weight of responsibility of not creating public disorder but asking legitimate questions about safety. So I think to be fair to the sector what people like Peter Reynolds have asked for is really specific guidance more detailed guidance and actually some commentary about the debate on issues like transmission which are being debated across the world. So the more guidance and public health rationale that can be given to this sector the better. But also what early learning are saying and also what the teaching profession are saying is that things like access to flu jabs access to adequate and appropriate personal protective equipment access to sanitiser—all of these things make a difference but they also enable people to plan and provide safe environments. I think that's the point that's been made by a number of sector leaders and I'm sure Nicola Willis will pick up on that point. I've just got two short calls to make. I wanted to ask back in the financial review about these issues of viability of our schools. What we know is that in the last Government's Budget we had the issue of a donations package. We know that National have previously supported scrapping the decile system because of the huge inequity that exists around schools and their capacity to fund-raise. We've got issues of international students. So I think really understanding that there was this huge plea by a number of schools that were in the higher deciles who argued that it was a flawed system—the Minister agreed that it was a flawed system yet proceeded with this inequitable donations scheme. So they now face a really significant issue around fund-raising; they don't have international students. So what schools said and what Andrew King turned up to the select committee the other day and said was—you know 100000 down. So this issue of what the Government provided in the last year in terms of funding for schools was already inequitable and already had people in a bad way. Now we have this COVID situation and we have schools that will have deficits all over the show—and if you could comment on that.
SpeechHon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central): In response to the Minister's comments around teacher supply I think this issue was raised again as part of our financial review around the way that we are training teachers and the improvements that need to occur in terms of teacher training. The other area that obviously my colleague Nicola Willis will address is around early learning and that was covered in the financial review. We cover in our report in the financial review the issues of participation for certain groups in New Zealand—Māori and Pasifika children—and I guess my question for the Minister is this. We know that there are some longstanding issues there. Under the last National Government we saw huge improvements in participation particularly for young Māori and Pasifika children. We have heard from the early childhood sector that they haven't in their view had the funding that they need. There are many early childhood centres who have had viability issues and now we've got COVID on top of this and what we're hearing from people like Peter Reynolds—can I acknowledge the job that he's doing—is that there are going to be significant financial viability issues because some parents will be naturally hesitant to have their children return to early learning. So if the Minister could comment on the financial review and early childhood funding in the context as well of some of those children who are more disadvantaged—what's happened to them in terms of COVID? Many people are very concerned about some of the hardship and what we can do in the future to be able to address those real viability issues in the early childhood sector matters.
Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): I think that's a very fair question. I think what we're likely to see is that there'll still be a group of students who are likely to continue remote learning even once schools and early learning services get back to a more normal operating model and so one of the things that I would like to see schools doing is collaborating around that higher-risk segment of the workforce and using them to support that remote learning and that distance learning. I'm aware that the spread of the workforce across schools is uneven—so there are some schools that have higher concentrations of older teachers for example and some schools that have got higher concentrations of younger teachers—and we're going to need those schools to really cooperate with each other if they're going to make maximum use of all of the workforce that's available. So those teachers who are unable to come back into the classroom because of health needs or because they are at higher risk they can be supporting distance learning and I hope that schools will be cooperating to make sure that that happens. In terms of the overall number of teachers supply has been a challenge and it's been a real challenge in a very buoyant labour market because fewer people have gone into teacher training. We can have lots of backwards and forwards as we've done in the past about what may have caused that but one of the things we also know is that when unemployment goes up the number of people who train to be teachers goes up at the same time. It's a reasonably secure form of employment and the employment prospects are reasonably good. But what we've seen in the past again—and I look back and I don't put any particular Government to blame for this because it's happened over economic cycles of about 30 years—is that we've kind of had a boom or bust programme for teacher supply. So we've either had too many teachers and they've complained they haven't been able to get jobs or we've had too few. So one of the things we'll have to be very careful about is that we don't over-correct—so we don't train too many teachers and we get to that point where we end up with people saying I've just spent four years training for a job and there's no jobs for me." but actually make sure that we're training enough teachers. So I think the better modelling and data that the ministry has been able to achieve will certainly help us to make sure that we're getting that teacher supply situation right."
SpeechHon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central): Just again to acknowledge those families but also all of the amazing learning support staff across New Zealand that have been helping those families. I guess my next question relates to that issue but also staffing generally in the Budget. We know that we've had previously issues of staff shortages but schools cry out obviously for additional staffing support. We now have COVID occurring. We've got a situation where we've got immunocompromised teachers; we've got older teachers. What principals are saying to me is there is going to be a group of children that need catch-up as a result of being behind either year 11 to 13 but other students. So what is the Minister's view in terms of whether not only was the staffing allocation in the previous Budget acceptable given the need that we've got in areas like additional learning support but now moving into this period where we're going to have some people who are not going to be able to go to work and they're going to have to potentially work from home—what the Government can do to help those schools or early learning centres that will be impacted by that.
Hipkins ChrisHon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): I absolutely acknowledge that learning support is one of the areas in the schooling and early childhood education systems that I have the most concern about. It is one of the areas where I think there is a lot more progress still to be made. We funded the learning support coordinators in last year's Budget so that we can do a better job of coordinating the resources that we've got getting support to the young people who need it faster than they have been getting it because those wait times are unacceptable. But the big spike in wait times happened basically at the end of the last Government and at the beginning of this Government and we've been working to bring that back under control but there's a lot of ground that we've still got to recover there. So no I'm not satisfied that wait times are acceptable—they're not. No I'm not satisfied that all children who need support are able to get it. I do want to acknowledge as I'm sure the member will as well the families of those kids who have got additional learning needs because during the lockdown period I think they were some of the families that did it the hardest. It's really really hard to be 24/7 with some of those kids who have the highest needs and schools—whilst they could provide some sort of videoconferencing and so on to provide a bit of support they weren't able to provide that respite that relief to those families and I think many of those families did find that period and have found this this period incredibly difficult. So I do want to acknowledge the fact that they will be very appreciative of when we get back to a point where they can get more in-person support.
SpeechHon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central): Madam Chair—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Just keep going I think—just keep going. Hon NIKKI KAYE: Moving on to another area obviously in the annual review there's been a lot of discussion in the review about how Government supports children with additional learning needs children with complex needs. We obviously in our report highlighted the fact that despite the Prime Minister's commitment to improve early intervention services we have a wait of about a hundred days. We have raised issues around these learning support coordinators and the commitment that Government gave and a number of them haven't been recruited and now again we have this backdrop of COVID. We've got many parents and children who have not been able to have the support that they need through this period. Talking to principals we've got additional issues from the mental health perspective from additional learning support. So I guess my question for the Minister is: given the in our view lack of resource and given the period in history that he was given around learning support does he acknowledge that it's been inadequate that the system has not been performing as well as it could have and that moving into COVID when we've got another tsunami of potentially mental health and additional learning support issues he could have done better and he could have provided more support in this area?