Mahuta NanaiaHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): Let me cover off some of the issues in relation to a genuine concern that the Finance and Expenditure Committee took note of which was small communities being outflanked by larger communities. I welcome the addition and the strengthening of the legislation to ensure that we get a representative mix of the rural provincial and metro communities on the regional representation group. Articulating that very clearly in legislation makes clear the obligation that the legislation has towards ensuring more local voice. The other element in relation to the regional representative group was a matter that Ms Grigg raised which was will there be capacity across the whole of the representative group namely iwi mana whenua partners to contribute to this process. I suspect just like councils it's a new domain of decision making that they'll be entering into that they'll develop a relationship and that they will build capacity over time in order to undertake the objectives of the regional representative group which is to develop the strategic documents that will guide the water service entities which will be to put through some rigour the asset management plans and the pricing and funding plans that will give the assurance to their communities about the role and function of the water service entity to carry out the purposes that it was designed to do.The other element and I think that's an important question to come back to is around population growth. This was something I raised also in my opening statements around this. For those small communities who currently sit at about 50000 or less they receive one shareholding vote. But if I draw the member's attention to clause 16(2) outlined in there is that every time there's a census and the population adjusts so will the shareholding. There's a process for which that can be calculated and determined. So I think that's a really important function to give communities confidence that in those growth areas the nature of the interests the shareholding interests can be taken account of. But I still maintain that setting up a shareholding interest based on population where there's no ability to take a dividend will give small communities greater assurance that the establishment of these water service entities and the commitment to reinvest back into infrastructure will see the benefits in those areas that the member referred to that I referred to in my own electorate that many of us are worried about because we know that they cannot afford the level of investment and infrastructure that is required to underpin their existing needs of the water network but also their future needs if they see themselves as a growth area.I also want to come to the matter of the point that Mr Watts raised in relation to the membership of the regional representative group and every council should be represented. One of the concerns that I have and I know that this was something that the select committee took very seriously and I feel obligated to raise it in this Chamber is that if the regional representative group became too unwieldly too quickly—that is too large—and if we see in some of the entity areas where you have up to 21 or 22 councils and then immediately the representative group starts out with that number the conversation right at the front end of a reform agenda will be: who's there? It'll be around representation. This has been tried and tested. I have some level of lived experience to make this comment because I know that in many iwi post-settlement entities post-settlement governance entities one of the biggest challenges if you have a governance entity that is far too large it in some ways hinders or impedes the ability to make the strategic decisions or even have the strategic conversation that's necessary to guide and govern significant interests. So I'm not saying that the concern isn't valid; I'm saying that we need to balance the legitimate interest of ensuring that councils and iwi mana whenua can contribute to the strategic decision-making but also stage out the way in which this happens because we are at the front end of a new reform and changing the way that we're delivering water services across the country. I hope that they value the opportunity to start well start with the intention in mind which is provide strong strategic guidance to the water service entities to do the job they've been tasked to do.