Arbuckle JamieJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First): Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Employment Relations (Protection for Kiwisaver Members) Amendment Bill. Like the previous speaker Laura Trask New Zealand First does not support the passage of this bill any further. But it was interesting as a new member of the Finance and Expenditure Committee—it was one of the first bills I got to hear submissions on. It was a bill that came from the 53rd Parliament so New Zealand First didn't have a vote obviously on the first reading of this.But it was interesting that when submissions were called for this bill we received only 14 submissions. Of those 14 submissions we only heard two oral submissions in hearings. One of those submissions that we did hear was from BusinessNZ and I will come back to the BusinessNZ submission because it actually is quite enlightening some of the points that they brought up during the oral hearing.So firstly when we actually did hear and read the submissions it was actually really hard to work out what the problem was. Obviously the member in charge Tracey McLellan had taken the time to put the members' bill up but like many things when these things are explored more the research that was done in the background actually showed that there isn't actually a problem that is really raising its head. It was actually asked of the officials on probably about three occasions Please come back and give us some real-life examples of where this is actually happening" and that wasn't happening through the select committee process. As I alluded to the 14 submissions we received and actually only having two of those submissions turn up and actually speak to the select committee actually kind of raised that concern—what is actually the problem here?There's no doubt that New Zealand First supports KiwiSaver and the benefits that has given to New Zealanders. Actually the KiwiSaver is something I think we can all be proud of as New Zealanders. It has got a history and I think it was around 2007 when the KiwiSaver scheme was introduced—or finally introduced. That took a number of years. I even remember in my teenage years—what was probably the late 1990s early 2000s—the Rt Hon Winston Peters at the time discussing long-term savings. If I remember right in my earlier days—before paying too much attention to politics—there was actually a referendum on that. I think that people of the day were not as happy about a compulsory scheme and that's where that that fell over. But later on obviously where ideas grow and people think a bit more about it this KiwiSaver scheme was born. Credit to the Hon Michael Cullen who was the finance Minister of the time who actually introduced this.Over time the KiwiSaver scheme as we know now has grown and there's over 3.25 million people in that scheme. As I say going forward as a country that is going to be of benefit to all of us because the main reason behind KiwiSaver is to save more for our retirement. That's a goal for all of us as we grow older—actually having KiwiSaver in our back pocket as you would like to say. But KiwiSaver's also given other benefits obviously over time with younger people being able to access their scheme and actually put money towards their first home. Those kind of incentives I think have been really really good.So as I do say KiwiSaver is an opt-in and an opt-out scheme. Obviously through the submissions and through the BusinessNZ submission that voluntary system that is there at the moment also allows the opportunity for employers and employees to have a discussion when someone is first taken on into a role. There's an approach under section 101B called the total remuneration approach. That total remuneration approach is a discussion that happens at the beginning of your employment. In some cases employees and employers take that amount whether it's $30 an hour or $27 an hour and under a total remuneration approach your full salary including KiwiSaver could be included in that amount.The argument that was put forward in this bill was someone in the KiwiSaver scheme shouldn't be discriminated against for being in the KiwiSaver scheme. Basically they were saying if you were getting $27 an hour it should be on top. But the logic here is there's already that initial discussion around that total remuneration approach and that actually solves a lot of the issues. As I say we just did not hear the concerns through submissions.The thing I did learn through the BusinessNZ submission which I did want to allude to was there is protection already for people on the minimum wage. And to note if someone is on the minimum wage you can't pay them less than the minimum wage. So you can't take KiwiSaver back and then add it on to get to the minimum wage—it has to be minimum wage plus. So a lot of the things that this was trying to fix—there is already initial protection there. So that is also a benefit that is already in the scheme.So overall New Zealand First will not support the passage of this bill. It believes that the mechanisms already in place are enough. There is also a time at the moment with obstacles around business and one has to look at putting more work on to businesses when they're struggling and also those relationships. As I say with the relationship at the moment and the way that total remuneration package is put together it makes sense to keep that as it is.So the main reason New Zealand First will not support the passage is there was just a lack of evidence on the ground. We just did not hear through those submissions the need to actually support this bill any further. On that New Zealand First will not support the passage of the bill any further through the House. I do not commend the bill to the House."