Hawkins George: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — Second Reading Procedure In Committee 
Hawkins George: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — Second Reading Procedure In Committee 
[Volume:657;Page:6362] 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Labour—Manurewa) 
: 
 We heard the Minister of Local Government talk about the high-level decision that the Government has made and indeed it was very high. It was far too high to involve the public in the very early stages when the Government embarked on this plan. The Government did not have any select committee hearings on the first bill on this reorganisation of Auckland governance the Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill. Things were put in place so that it was inevitable that all that was left to debate on this second bill the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill was how the new super-council would operate. I think that is something that people in Auckland do not understand. 
Many people made a lot of preparation before they went along to the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee. These were people who had given years of their lives working for ratepayer groups community groups and local clubs etc. and they felt that something was being taken away from them. Something was going to go and they had no control over that. I said earlier that I thought John Carter chaired the meetings very well. But the trouble was that a lot of people did not understand how things worked. I hear Rodney Hide saying how good it will be to have one mayor for Auckland. It may well be but a lot of people want to keep their local mayor. 
I think one of the things that the Government has not understood is the relationship that people have with their present councils. We saw it when we went out to Henderson. We saw the people of west Auckland making submissions. They were passionate and they believed in Waitakere. They even believed in Bob Harvey. That surprised me somewhat. They spoke with real passion about Bob Harvey. 
In south Auckland of course we have Len Brown. People think that he does a great job. He gets around and sees the very young people whom others feel a little intimidated by. He talks in their language and he gets around schools and public meetings. In Papakura Calum Penrose has real passion. As mayor he is out until 2 a.m. making sure that kids get home safely. That will not happen with the new super-council with a super-mayor. Perhaps that is what people are really upset about. People are mourning the passing of their councils. That is something the Government has not fully understood. 
I am proud to say that in South Auckland we elect Maori and Pacific Islanders on to councils and that is really important. When the Government decides how many wards will be elected and how many people will be in each ward I hope the Government does not count out those Maori and Pacific Island people who have put themselves up for election. It is very easy for those who have money who can advertise and who can write to people to get their message across but in South Auckland the real value we see in having councillors who are Maori Pacific Islanders and even Asians is that they understand the people in their area. That representation reflects the area and that is hugely important. Unless the representation reflects the area that people live in we lose something that will be very hard to recover. 
Nikki Kaye 
: Why did you only want six councils? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: If they were councils that would not be so bad but they will not be councils. That member knows they will be little toothless boards. The member thinks that if we have enough toothless boards the Government will have something that people really want. Well I was at a meeting in Papakura last night and I know that is not what people want. They do not want a toothless board; they want a council that can make real decisions and spend the money not have to go begging for it from the regional council the super-council the greater council or whatever one wants to call it. They do not want to go begging. These people have pride. They want to be able to make their own decisions for their community. It is really important that people take part in their community. 
One of the things that people talk about a lot is that people are not as involved in politics as they were many years ago. I do not see it that way because I have a huge membership— 
Simon Bridges 
: How many? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Huge; I get close to a thousand. I have to say— 
Simon Bridges 
: That’s not so big in National Party terms. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The National Party in Manurewa has about five members and that is exactly the point I am making. People are not involved. 
People want to be involved but they want to be involved locally. There is nothing wrong with that but it is not what the Government understands. The Government thinks that big is best. People in Auckland realise that big is more expensive. They fear that their rates will go up—and they most certainly will. People who live in areas where there have not been so many leaky buildings think that their council will have to share the costs faced by other councils that need to fix up their mistakes. They feel that although they had no say over those decisions they will have to pay. They feel quite strongly about that. They also feel that many of the little organisations that have survived because they have been helped and funded by their local council will not be able to get the same help in the future. 
People in my area talk with a lot of passion about the swimming pools and say that kids can get into the pools without a charge being made to them. That is very very important. 
Hon John Carter 
: And they’ll still be able to. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The chairman of the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee says they still will be able to but that is for the Auckland Council to decide. That is not certain. 
Hon John Carter 
: Not the Auckland Council; the local board will decide. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The local board may do if it has enough money but it has to go begging for that money. I do not think that members should be so dishonest as to say that of course swimming pools will be free. They may not be and that is the trouble. People realise that they may not be free. 
Then we have a situation with libraries. The select committee had some good submissions on libraries but what will happen in areas where libraries serve across a boundary? That will quite possibly happen so people will feel that the ownership of something will be taken away from them. Members should reflect on that issue over the next 16 hours of debate. 
Simon Bridges 
: Ha ha! 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The member for Tauranga who sat on the select committee because the Government could not find enough Aucklanders— 
Phil Twyford 
: He never said anything. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: He never said anything; he turned his back on the Maori people. He may feel smug that he has a big majority but Winston Peters once thought that he had a big majority as well. When a member stops listening and becomes a know-all that is when he or she is on the way down. 
The ordinary people the mums and dads feel that they are losing something in this deal. My challenge to the Government is to explain to people over the next 16 hours of debate how people will find things.