Nash StuartHon STUART NASH (Minister for Economic and Regional Development): Thank you Madam Speaker. My father Hal Nash is what you would call a community lawyer. He was—he gave his advice freely and willingly to organisations like Birthright. He was a patron and honorary lawyer of the Napier Sailing Club and would often be called aside at club events or when we were out as a family to give legal advice. He was one of those lawyers who actually believed that the law was there to help people not make money. A true socialist I suppose but I saw firsthand the value that he added to organisations and I still hear community organisations say to me every now and again You know your father was a very good lawyer. But not only was he a good lawyer he was a good man." And part of this is because he gave his time freely and when I say "freely" I mean pro bono as well as at all times of the day or night to those who required or requested legal advice without going through the firm. It's my understanding from my Māori law friends that often they are called upon to give pro bono advice and they're often torn on this because you know they can give pro bono advice which is the right thing to do but often it's not necessary the legal thing to do. So I'm very keen to hear what the Māori legal practitioners society has to say on this as well because the anomaly in the law that we're trying to fix there has found many lawyers wanting and torn between doing the right thing and doing the legal thing. So this should fix this. But most importantly I suppose the reason why I'm supporting this is because we now live in a society where transparency and accountability is demanded by members of organisations that may be charities may be sports clubs and other organisations that are actually the threads that bind our communities together. Members demand the type of advice that allows them to make decisions that will hold up to scrutiny and also accountability. And if a lawyer is sitting on the board of one of these organisations or is a member of one of these organisations and he or she is not able to give their advice freely because they are outside the bounds of their employment contract then I think what that does is it weakens the ability of a club or an organisation to act in a way that optimises whatever outcomes are required. What we know is happening in this day and age is there are more clubs more charities more community organisations stepping in to help those who are also finding more and more lawyers who in fact are doing the right thing and getting out there and helping. I wonder if in fact the law as it stands is actually preventing good lawyers who understand the constraints of the current legislation—from holding back on their voluntary obligations and duties from being a member of a club but not being allowed to provide the type of value that would add significantly to the governance or even just the membership of an organisation. I wonder if perhaps the perception that the general public has of lawyers—perhaps not as good and grand as some may believe; or perhaps not as good and grand as it should be—could be rehabilitated by more lawyers getting out there giving their advice and actually making it happen. I have been myself on a number of boards voluntary organisations where lawyers have stepped in. One—there's a guy called Martin Williams who is a very good friend of mine but is also a very good lawyer. He takes his roles and responsibilities on community governance organisations incredibly seriously. But he does so I suspect now not knowing the law before this Dr Webb taking into account that if he was to offer advice that was counter to information that had been received by other parties he may in fact be breaking the law. The thing about this that I would be keen for Mr Bishop to talk about or hopefully it'll come out in select committee is that if in fact a lawyer provides information outside of their employment and that information is proven to be negligent or in some way can be challenged in court whether a lawyer will be required to undertake their own or take out their own liability insurance. So that's just a question around how a lawyer's advice when it is given pro bono but legally stands up in a court of law in terms of their ability to be sued for that advice given.But I think this is really good. This is a good bit of advice and the reason I say that is my experience with lawyers is they can add significant value to community organisations to clubs and to societies in a way that perhaps others can't because they bring a level of advice that adds real value and if this allows us to do it within the bounds of the law then that can only be good. Thank you."