Flavell Te Ururoa: Building (Late Consent is a Free Consent) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Building (Late Consent is a Free Consent) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:640;Page:10741] 
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
: 
 Tena koe Mr Deputy Speaker. Kia ora tatou i tenei po. Katahi te pire nei. Ko tona tikanga me whakaae mai. Engari ara ano te “engari”. Ae ra hoki he raruraru kei reira na te takaroa o te wa ki te ata titiro ki nga tono hanga whare nei; “engari” ko te whakairi i te putea te rongoa? He tauira ano tenei o tera ture koura nei—ka hinga i konei waihotia mo nga ra 20 waiho ake ma te wa tera e whakatika. Mena he korero tau e pirangi nei e ai ki ta te Official Information Act tatari ake mo nga ra 20 katahi ka puta he maramatanga ki a koe. 
Koi nei pea te ahua i tera wiki mo Te Tari Hauora i a ratou whiriwhiri ana i nga huarahi hei whakatau i nga take o te hunga i haere ki Vietnam te hunga kani rakau te hunga noho mai ra i Paritutu. Ka mutu ko nga tangata kua rongo nei i te ngau o te paihana – taria te wa tirohia ano a nga ra 20.  
I tenei pire koi nei te porangi o taua tikanga ara o nga ra 20 mena ka whakamanahia tenei wahanga o te rangai kawanatanga a-rohe. E 20 ra i raro o te Building Act 2004 ki te ata wetewete i nga tono kia kitea mai ai mena ka eke te pai o nga whare ki tera e tika ana a kia tu kaha tonu mo nga tau. Ko te mate o nga Ture Koura nei he wa tona kaore he take o aua ture. Penei ki ta George Bernard Shaw i ki nei ko te ture matua e ki ana karekau he ture matua. 
Kei te mohio tonu matou mai i te mahi rangahau o Te Tari Hanga Whare i te Whiringa-a-rangi o te tau 2006 kare te tata o nga 20 o-rau o nga tono i whakaaetia i roto i tera ra 20. Ko te 1 o te 5 tono i mua o te kaunihera kaore i whiwhi whakaaetanga e tika ana mo ratou. 
He aha i penei ai? Ara noa atu nga tangata i tua atu o te kaihanga whare i tona kotahi te apiha kaunihera i tona kotahi. Ara ano hoki ko te hunga no ratou nga whare ko te tangata waihanga ko nga kaimahi i te tuatahi ka mutu i tua atu ko nga tangata whanau ranei ka noho i aua whare a te wa. 
Penei i ta John Scarry korero he tangata pukenga nei o Tamaki-makau-rau ki te komiti whaiti ko te hunga whai hua na te ahuatanga o tenei huarahi whakaaetanga ko te hunga ka whiwhi ka mahi ranei i roto i aua whare e korerohia ake nei otira me Aotearoa whanui. 
No reira me hoki ki taua korero ra. “Ae” engari “But”. Ara noa atu nga patai. Ko te mea nui hei mea wananga ma tenei Whare ko tenei. Ae ranei kaore ranei. Mena ka tangohia mai ko te utu te tikanga ka utua. He mea whakatau tenei i te raru ka whakapoto nei i te roa o te tatari ki nga whakaaetanga? 
Ara ano hoki etahi take. Mo nga ropu a-rohe e ata wetewete nei i nga whakaaetanga a whare ko tona tikanga kei a ratou nga pumanawa me te kaha nei ki te ata whiriwhiri whakatau ranei i nga tono. Ki ta te Ture a-Hanga Whare ko te tikanga he tikanga arotake ano wa ratou kia taea e ratou te whakamatautau i a ratou ano kia kore tatou e whakarite tikanga ka hoki mai ki te ngau i a tatou a te wa. Ko te putake o tenei pepa whakaaetanga a-whare he hiahia kia kore etahi mahi huna e noho pera ara e noho huna. Mena ka puritia te utu mo nga whakaaetanga i nga kaunihera tera pea ko tona mutunga mai ahakoa ehara tera i te hiahia he akiaki tonu i a ratou nga kaunihera kia tere oti nga tono mua mai o nga ra 20. Kei wareware i a tatou me ata haere kia kore ai e whakapau kaha mo te koretake noa iho. 
Ko te mate o te whai i nga here a-ture me te kore aro ake ki take ke ko te aronga ke o nga kaunihera me nga tangata kaipakihi kia oti wawe nei nga tono ma te wa tera e aki na ka wareware ko te huanga ki muri. Ko te mutunga mai o tera ko nga whare pakarukaru nei. Ko te aronga o tenei ture hou ko te taumata tiketike e taea ana. Ko tou titiro ki a koe ano he mea nui hei whakapakari ake i nga whakahaere me nga whakaritenga engari e hia ke nei nga take hei mea wananga whakatau mo nga awangawanga. Koi nei te korero i kaha tautokongia e nga kaitono.  
Na te ropu Hanga Whare o te rohe o Manawatu-Wanganui te korero tino marama ki a matou. Hei ta ratou he pohehe nui te ki na nga mahi ngoikore a-kaunihera anake i takaroa ai nga tono. Hei ta ratou ara noa atu nga uauatanga. Ko te ngako ki tenei take katoa kia tukua nga momo uauatanga here e whakaroa ana i nga tono.  
Na ki ta te Kaunihera a-Wahi ko te ingoa pai mo taua raru ko te “capacity constraints of councils”. Tera pea ko tetahi huarahi hei whainga ko te whakarahi ake i te hunga matatau ki te mahi hanga whare me te hunga tirotiro whare. Ki ta te Kaunihera a-Rohe o Franklin titiro ko te uauatanga nui ko te whakaaetanga ahakoa ko te ngoikore o te mahere he ngoikore no etahi ki te ata titiro ki nga mea pakupaku nei me te kore pepa hei tautoko i nga tono. Kei te kaha tautoko a John Scarry i tenei korero. Hei tana koi nei te take nui mo te takaroa ara he koretake no nga tono. 
Kaore matou o Te Torangapu Maori paku tohe ki tera whakaaro o Nahinara mo te raru otira ki tenei pire—engari ae ki te rongoa ke. Kei te marama tonu matou ki nga raru e haere tonu ana mo te tautukunga te ekenga me te kaha ka puta ki nga kaunihera ia wa ia wa. Kei te mohio ano hoki matou mena karekau he ropu whiriwhiringa whakarongo ki nga take Maori kare aua take e rongohia e arongia. Ka mutu kei te mohio matou mo te itiiti o te Maori e eke ana ki nga kawanatanga a-rohe. He awangawanga nui tera ki a matou. I te tau 2004 ko te nuinga o te hunga i potingia ki nga kaunihera he Pakeha ara e 94 o-rau engari he aha ta te Maori? E 4.3 o-rau noa iho. Na ara ano hoki ko te roanga ake o te whainga i tona kotahi ko nga momo uauatanga e hia ke nei pai mai kino mai. Ki te pohehe tatou ka taea e tatou te whakatika nga take katoa ma te moni i tona kotahi ma te patu i nga kaunihera ngoikore nei me te pupuri i nga moni ki ta tetahi he tirohanga whaiti he pohehe nui tera.  
E kore Te Pati Maori e tautoko i tenei pire engari kei te kaha tautoko matou i te hiahia ki te ata titiro ki te maia ki te matau me te tautukunga o nga ropu a-rohe ki te whakatutuki i nga mea e hiahiatia ana. 
Mena he painga o tenei huarahi koia tera ko te putanga o nga take penei i te noho tuturu mai me te matau o nga kaimahi he take tera e whakaaro nuitia ana e matou na te ahuatanga o te maia o te ao Maori. A me whai tikanga ano tatou kia aro pumau ki nga kawanatanga a-rohe ki nga huanga ki te noho a-tangata ki te tika me te pono. Ahakoa enei matapono katoa ko ta matau e tohe ana kia kaua he “ae/engari” i te taha. Kia ora tatou. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Greetings Mr Deputy Speaker and to all of us here this evening. What a bill! We could easily say “Yes” but this is a “But” situation. Yes there is a problem in the delays incurred in the processing of building consent applications but will financial incentives fix the problem? It is also another brilliant example of the golden rule—when all else fails apply 20 days and hope that the problem will sort itself out. If we are desperate for information the Official Information Act says just to wait for 20 working days and we will find out all we need to know. 
Last week the Ministry of Health resorted to the rule when puzzling over what to do with all those Viet Nam veterans sawmillers residents of Paritutu and in fact any person exposed to the risk of dioxin—call a review for 20 days. 
In this bill we see the folly of the 20-days rule applied to the local government sector—20 days under the Building Act 2004 to deal with consent applications to ensure that buildings will be built to a standard that will guarantee they are still standing in years to come. The problem with golden rules is that there is always some situation that makes them redundant. Or as George Bernard Shaw said the golden rule is that there are no golden rules. 
What we know now from the Department of Building and Housing survey undertaken in November 2006 is that approximately 20 percent of consents are not issued within these golden 20 days. One in five applications before the council is not receiving the approved consent it is entitled to. 
And why is this such a problem? There are a lot more people at stake here than an individual builder and a council officer. There are household owners architects contractors and developers in the first instance; and of course in the longer term the people who will inhabit the buildings for years to come. 
As John Scarry an Auckland structural engineer told the select committee the greatest beneficiaries of the building consent process are the people who will own and/or live and work in the building concerned and the public of New Zealand. 
So again we come back to the crunch “Yes/But” question. The issue for this House to determine is whether removing the requirement to pay fees will actually address the problem and reduce building delays. 
There are other factors. For the authorities that undertake building consent review the theory is that they have the capability and capacity to make the appropriate assessment. The Building Act requirements rely on these authorities being able to undergo the accreditation and audit processes with such efficiency that we do not set ourselves up to fail in the future. The purpose of the building consent process is to ensure that building faults are avoided. Withholding the fees that councils rely on from processing consents may of course have the u 
nintended effect of forcing councils to rush decisions through to meet the golden time frame of 20 days. One should remember: less haste less waste. 
The whole problem with meeting fixed timing rules at the expense of all else is that  
councils and developers would concentrate on getting consents issued on time as their sole driver—quality taking a back seat. And what this leads to is substandard buildings. The focus of the new Building Act is quality. Accreditation should help to improve systems and processes. And there are many other factors that may bring about the changes that I think all submitters agreed were needed. 
The Manawatu-Wanganui Regional Building Group summed up the argument for us. Its submission alleged that it was naive to assume that delays in processing building consents were due to the inefficiency of councils alone concluding that in reality the situation is much more complex. The key to this whole issue must therefore be in unpacking the complexity of the factors causing delay. 
The Property Council named the problem as the capacity constraints of councils. Part of the solution therefore may lie in addressing the gaps in numbers of qualified building consent processors and building inspectors. The Franklin District Council saw the problem as being the difficulty of verifying compliance because of poorly presented plans poor attention to design detail and a lack of supporting documentation. John Scarry also endorsed this alleging that the biggest single cause for delay is caused by the design documentation submitted for consent being seriously deficient. 
The Maori Party has no argument with National’s identification of the problem—well not with this bill anyway—but we most certainly have difficulty with the solution. We know there are ongoing issues with competency with compliance and with capability of councils. We know that in the local government sector unless there are specific consultative forums where Maori can raise our particular issues those issues generally do not get heard or addressed.  
And what we also know is that the low representation of Maori in local government is also extremely concerning. In 2004 the overwhelming majority of elected local government members were Pakeha—94 percent— while the proportion of Maori was a dismal 4.3 percent. And then there is the whole process of building consent itself with an  
increasing complexity of building consent applications some good some not so good. To think that all of these wide-ranging issues can be solved by one financial lever—punishing tardy councils by withholding fees—is as one submitter put it simplistic to an extreme. 
The Maori Party will not support this bill but we do support the urgent need for a review of the capability and capacity of local body organisations to do the tasks we expect of them. 
If this process has done anything it has brought issues to the surface around retention and expertise of the workforce—issues that we are acutely concerned about in the context of Maori capability. We need to ensure that local government is as committed to quality committed to representation and committed to justice. However for all these principles we insist that there be no “Yes but” about it. 
]