Clark David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeClark David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 17 October 2013. Volume:694;Page:14012. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]11.Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour—Dunedin North) to theMinister for Small Business: What advice if any has he received on the impact of fraud corruption and dishonesty on small business and what has he done about it?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Acting Minister for Small Business): No specific advice as yet. However when reading the member’s question this morning it did give me pause for thought. I can think of some examples over the last several years that might fit into the categories the member—Dr David Clark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think he has answered the question.Mr SPEAKER: The difficulty is that the Minister certainly answered the first part of the question—no reports have been received. What he has done about that has not really yet been addressed. I will allow the Minister to continue but I will be listening very carefully—Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is quite clear in a primary question such as that that the second part of the question has to relate to the first part of the question and the first part of the question is about advice. The Minister told us he had not had any advice; therefore he cannot be doing anything about it.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I was making the point that I had not had any advice and this is what I was about to do about it. If the member gave me the opportunity to answer the rest of the question I would be happy to do that.Mr SPEAKER: I think the fact there is—Iain Lees-Galloway: I think we should move on.Mr SPEAKER: No the point is that what he has done about it might relate to advice but it could equally relate to the impact of fraud corruption and dishonesty on small business. On this occasion I have got to allow the Minister to continue his answer but I will be listening very carefully to see that the answer is in order.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well quite genuinely when the member gave me the question I thought I had better have a look at what he might be referring to so I tried to figure some examples in recent years that might fit into the categories the member raises and therefore whether I should be acting on them. There was apparently a tiling outfit in South Auckland a Thai tiling outfit that had a little bit of difficulty—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That answer is not going to be helpful to the order of the House.Dr David Clark: Has he received any briefings from the former Minister for Small Business the Hon John Banks given his intimate knowledge of fraud corruption and dishonesty?Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will invite the member to read the first part of the question which is in order but the rest is a direct accusation against a member—a personal reflection on a member.Dr David Clark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect I am asking—Mr SPEAKER: Is the member now raising a point of order?Dr David Clark: Yes.Mr SPEAKER: I will hear from the member.Dr David Clark: The former Minister for Small Business is a former Minister of Police and I would assume that he has knowledge of these activities. It is within his experience.Mr SPEAKER: No we are talking about the Minister—[Interruption] Order! I do not need assistance from 60 or 70 members on my right-hand side. The member has asked a question of the Minister for Small Business. I will allow the question to be asked if it is just the first part of the question.Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Every member has a right to raise a point of order.Hon Dr Nick Smith: There is a very clear Standing Order which members opposite have referred to in respect of the Labour candidate MrDaljit Singh who is before the courts on fraud charges that matters before the courts should not be referred to in Parliament while they are there or any evidence about them.Mr SPEAKER: That is true—[Interruption] Order! Would the House please settle down. I invite David Clark to ask his supplementary question with the first part only.Dr David Clark: I will ask a different one.Mr SPEAKER: OK he is going to ask a different question. [Interruption] Order!Dr David Clark: Has he received any advice from the previous Minister on exempting small business from prosecution if they sign a tax return without reading it?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No I do not believe that I have received that at this point. There may be some advice but I have not yet had the opportunity to receive the large package of advice.Dr David Clark: Can he list the ways that small business representation at the Cabinet table has suffered in light of police evidence that the former Minister received donations from big business before filing a false election return? [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The fact that it is a matter before the courts is public knowledge. We cannot discuss the details of that case. That question is able to be answered by the Minister.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I think the member misunderstands—the Minister was a Minister outside Cabinet so that rather mucks up the premise of his whole question. Actually I know that the Minister for Small Business took a great interest—a great interest—in the activities of small businesses and the member knows that I know that there are lots of small enterprises some of which members on the other side of the House know a lot about that may have misbehaved over the years. I am more than happy to investigate them and actually talk about them in the House if the member wants me to.Dr David Clark: I seek leave to table a graph prepared by the Parliamentary Library depicting the Cabinet papers submitted by the Minister for Small Business between April and August 2013.Mr SPEAKER: Well it is a graph that shows nothing so it is a blank piece of paper. I am not—[Interruption] The member has made his point and it will not be tabled.Dr David Clark: Did the former Minister for Small Business implement any specific small business policies or provide any Cabinet papers regarding small business; if not is that not because he has been a lame duck Minister?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well I think the member is a fine one to call anybody a lame duck. He has been a parrot the entire time he has been in Parliament. He has had nothing to say and that is the reality of it. He is possibly the least productive member in this House. He got thrown out of the economic development portfolio about 3 months after he got the gig and he is criticising the Minister for Small Business.Dr David Clark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! A point of order has been called.Dr David Clark: I appreciate the Minister’s intense interest in my activities but surely that is beyond his responsibility.Mr SPEAKER: Order! Again it is a classic case. If you ask a question that is loaded about a lame duck Minister you will get an answer back that is relatively loaded.Grant Robertson: I’m glad we’ve clarified he is.Mr SPEAKER: Let me clarify: I am not saying that; I am just repeating what the member said.Dr David Clark: I seek leave to table a fraud bribery and corruption survey which found that the largest number of respondents believe—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The source of the document?Dr David Clark: It is from KPMG. I have copied a hard copy.Mr SPEAKER: Is it freely available on the internet?Dr David Clark: I am not sure whether it is available.Mr SPEAKER: Well the member is saying he is not sure. [Interruption] Order! We have had enough of an explanation. I will put the leave. It is a fraud report prepared by KPMG. Leave is sought to table it. Is there any objection? There is.