English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18740] 
2.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he stand by his statement issued yesterday regarding the scholarship issue that: “On the evening of January 25 I was shown the table that reveals the variability between subjects for the first time.”; if not why not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Yes. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why then did the Minister tell the House something quite different yesterday when I asked him: “how much did he know about the scholarship results when he issued that press release?” and he said: “I knew there were eight who had three outstanding scholarships when the expectation was that there should have been 50.” and is that not misleading the House by his own words? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The press release was issued on 26 January not 25 January. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Does he find it acceptable that the chief executive officer of New Zealand Qualifications Authority Karen Van Rooyen appointed under his stewardship admits that collated scholarship results were sent to the Ministers’ offices on 17 January without a red alert yet 1 month later she is still not able to say why this oversight which has created considerable embarrassment for the Government in fact occurred? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think there are two errors there. One is the sending without an alert and the second is the not opening of an email. One is her responsibility and one is my office’s and therefore mine. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that yesterday when asked: “how much did he know about the scholarship results” when he issued the press release of 26 January he said: “I knew there were eight who had three outstanding scholarships when the expectation was that there should have been 50.” and then he left the House and made a different statement to the public saying that he had the scholarship results the night before he issued the press release? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: That was made clear to the House yesterday by both the Prime Minister and myself. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister tell us when he made it clear to the House and where on the record of this House did he tell us that he saw the scholarship results before he issued his thoroughly misleading press release? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I did not release a thoroughly misleading press release. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member asked a question. Could the member just repeat the question? 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister tell us where on the official record of this House of Parliament he told Parliament that he had the full results of the New Zealand Scholarship examination including the pass rates the night before he issued a press release which stated only that the problem was that a few people— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I asked the member to ask the original question again. 
Hon Bill English 
: I will ask the original question again. Where on the record of this House did the Minister tell the House that he had the scholarship pass rates on 25 January the day before he issued his thoroughly misleading press release on 26 January? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will allow the question except the words “thoroughly misleading” because that of course is a matter of opinion inside the question. The Minister may respond without mentioning that point. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think it was obvious to every person in the House other than Mr English yesterday. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In the previous question the Minister said he had told the House that he had the scholarship pass rates on the evening of 25 January. I then asked him where on the record of the House he had done that. He has not answered that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister is not responsible for the record. If there is a point that is misleading then of course the member can take another step in writing to me. 
Hon Bill English 
: No I am not going to play that game. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not want comments like that shouted at me in the second person. The member will withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Bill English 
: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Clearly the Minister has devised a tactic to use up supplementary answers. The facts of the matter are quite clear. He answered a question yesterday with a specific answer as if he did not know particular information. Then he went out of the House and issued a public statement saying he did know the information. It is pretty open and shut. Now he is using up supplementary answers by implying that somehow the information he made in the public statement had been given in the House. The House has a record of its proceedings. It is certainly my contention that he never said that in the House. It is not in the  
Hansard.  
It is not on the record. If you allow him not to answer the questions you are forcing me to use up supplementary questions in a way that means he can dodge the issue. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Speaking to the point of order Mr Speaker I am quite willing to go and find the  
Hansard. 
 It is certainly my impression that between the Prime Minister and I yesterday in the House we did make it clear—and it caused some uproar in the House—that I had known the day before and I had chosen to go ahead. 
Hon Bill English 
: If the Minister according to his statement yesterday outside the House did know about the scholarship pass rates why did he the next day issue a press release to the New Zealand public that said that scholarship awards “are to be enhanced to include more students. These brand new and substantial cash awards are part of the Labour-led Government’s commitment to … rewarding education excellence … The extension of New Zealand Scholarship awards will increase the monetary value … Provisional results indicate that some students did exceptionally well … but didn’t necessarily sit three subjects.” and does he not agree that that is a totally deceptive impression of the problems he knew about when he issued that press release? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: There was a group as I said yesterday in the House of very bright students who had suffered an injustice for whom Cabinet had established an entitlement. I thought it was appropriate that they knew straight away because they were making final university decisions at the time. These decisions have an enormous effect on their future and I have yet to hear one person— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I take a point of order because it is quite clear where Mr Mallard was about to go with his answer. You have ruled out the sorts of add-on bits that put a bit of political flavour into these things from the Hon Bill English— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Not entirely. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: You actually stood on your feet and said that it was inappropriate for Mr English— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: What is the point of order? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: The point of order is that I hope you will apply equally the rulings of the House to Mr Mallard. I express at this time our concern that Mr Mallard was able to almost put words in your mouth when he indicated before that he was not really prepared to answer a question on the basis that he did not feel he had responsibility for it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Of course what the member is saying is hypothetical because he has not said anything yet. I sincerely hope he is not going to. But the Minister is about to finish his answer. He will finish it but within the Standing Orders. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: As I said yesterday in the House I want to make it clear that on the evening of the Cabinet meeting that made the decisions as to the extension I received a piece of paper. The next day I discovered for the first time that unlike levels 1 2 and 3 the scholarship standards had not been subject to inter-subject moderation. I told the House yesterday that I found out the night after the Cabinet meeting. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister believe that the press release he made on 26 January extending the scholarship awards amounted to an accurate representation of the shambles of the scholarship results and does he believe he answered the question correctly when I asked him yesterday how much he knew about the scholarship results when he issued that press release and in his answer he did not refer at all to pass rates or variability? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I have two points. First what I said accurately reflected the Cabinet decision made on the 25th. Second I made it clear to the House yesterday that I had been briefed on the night of the 25th as to those other matters. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Can the Minister explain how it is that when he was questioned yesterday about the Cabinet paper creating scholarships he read out paragraph 28 from that Cabinet paper or certainly led the House to believe that that was what he was reading out when that Cabinet paper CAB(98)M38/13 has no paragraph 29—paragraphs are labelled alphabetically as usual—and certainly has no statement with the wording that he read out? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a paper reference CAB(98)M38/13 that has paragraph 29 that the member says does not exist. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister believe that it is credible to tell this House that the following series of events occurred without him knowing what was happening: on Friday 14 January the New Zealand Qualifications Authority provided provisional scholarship results; on the weekend of 15-16 January he rang the Prime Minister to talk about the overall pass rates—in her words “the overall pass rates”—on Monday the 17th his office was emailed again; on January 18th the chief executive of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority initiated an officials working-group that then discussed the scholarship results for a week while a Cabinet paper was prepared; and through that whole time no one was aware of the variability and pass rates in scholarship? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The assurance I give this House is that no Minister was aware. 
Dail Jones 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. When will the Minister table that Cabinet paper? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: He has until 6 p.m. That is covered under the rules of the House. 
Dail Jones 
: He had it with him just now. Why does he not table it so we can check it during question time? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: These are the Speakers’ rulings and the Standing Orders. I do not write them; I apply them. 
Dail Jones 
: So he has given us the wrong impression then? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am sorry. I apply the Standing Orders and Speakers’ rulings and the member should know that.