5. Question No. 5—Regional Economic DevelopmentCHRIS BISHOP (National—Hutt South) to the Minister for Regional Economic DevelopmentQuestion No. 5—Regional Economic Development5. CHRIS BISHOP (National—Hutt South) to the Minister for Regional Economic Development: How many times did he receive documents relating to N.Z. Future Forest Products Ltd before he declared a conflict of interest with the Cabinet Office on 14 October and does he stand by his statement I became aware of this formal application on 14 October"?Hon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Economic Development): I stand by the statement "I became aware of this formal application on 14 October". Since this matter came to light my office has conducted a search of documentation received that makes any mention of the N.Z. Future Forest Products application. I'm advised between June and November six documents in total were received by my office. Of these I personally received three and the project is merely referenced as the name of the company—someone and something I had never heard of.Chris Bishop: Is it correct that his chief of staff advised him of this issue while he was on a personal holiday overseas and what exactly did he advise him?Hon SHANE JONES: I don't recall whilst being at the gun range in Thailand and other places receiving such advice. However I have every confidence that the chief of staff and other relevant officials took all appropriate steps given that I had identified in 2017 a relationship with Mr Brian Henry.Chris Bishop: Is he saying then that his written answer released to me on Tuesday which says "My office was advised of this issue by our chief of staff while I was on a personal holiday overseas." is wrong?Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This penchant for by way of innuendo asking a question as though it's a fact and now—[Interruption] SPEAKER: Order! Order! Resume your seat. Who interjected?Nicola Willis: I withdraw and apologise.Hon Dr Nick Smith: I said "What?"SPEAKER: The member will withdraw and apologise.Hon Dr Nick Smith: I withdraw and apologise. Point of order Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: No I'm not taking a point of order. I'm finishing this one. We're in the middle of a point of order; the member knows that.Hon Dr Nick Smith: It didn't sound like a point of order.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Mr Speaker you can—SPEAKER: Order! Nick Smith did you interject again? Hon Dr Nick Smith: I said the Deputy Prime Minister's point did not sound like a point of order.SPEAKER: The member is now on a final warning. If he breaches Standing Orders again today the situation will be very serious.Rt Hon Winston Peters: You will observe by the supplementary question asked by Mr Bishop that he imputes that because this information was received when the Minister was overseas it automatically means that the Minister was told about it and that really cannot stand as a question line.Chris Bishop: Speaking to the point of order.SPEAKER: No you're not speaking to the point of order. I did listen to the question. It didn't say that. The Minister will answer it.Hon SHANE JONES: Please repeat the question.Chris Bishop: My question was: in light of the answer to the first supplementary is he saying then that his written answer to me released on Tuesday—and I quote "My office was advised of this issue by our chief of staff while I was on a personal holiday overseas."—is wrong?Hon SHANE JONES: I stand by the answer I've already given.Chris Bishop: What issue did his chief of staff advise him of while he was on holiday overseas?Hon SHANE JONES: I stand by what I've already referred to.Chris Bishop: When he said last week "I became aware of this formal application on 14 October" does he mean that he knew informally earlier than 14 October?Hon SHANE JONES: I've been characteristically candid and incandescently clear on this issue. I became aware of this formal application on 14 October.Chris Bishop: Why does he not just say then if the word "formal" has no meaning "I became aware of this application on 14 October"?Hon SHANE JONES: I am an expert in language and the reality is that the role that I have and may have had in an application that was rejected where no public money was ever allocated is a formal role. Now what the officials may be doing down in the boiler room I don't see from the bridge.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister: on this matter has he heard of a call by a member of Parliament for the Serious Fraud Office to investigate why the application did not succeed and how ridiculous is that?SPEAKER: I understand what the member's getting at but I think that this Minister does not have responsibility either for the Serious Fraud Office or for Mr Bishop.Chris Bishop: How did his chief of staff come to know about the issue such that he could advise him of it while he was on holiday?Hon SHANE JONES: As prescient as I am that's why we employ staff to from time to time ensure that Ministers who hold formal roles—a particular Minister myself in this case who recused himself so I have no idea whatsoever what powers of intelligence gathering that highly decorated individual might have employed.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The circle has been complete. In that last question he did exactly what I said he was going to do; by innuendo he is saying that advice to the person in that office is advice to the Minister. That's where he started and that's where he's landed up.Chris Bishop: Speaking to the point of order.SPEAKER: No we're not speaking to the point of order. I think the member who is a very experienced member is aware of the fact that while we attempt to have a straightforward set of Speakers' rulings and Standing Orders we have not got to the point in this Parliament where we can rule out innuendo.Chris Bishop: When did he first learn of the existence of a company called Future Forest Products Ltd?Hon SHANE JONES: I had no idea of the existence of such a company. It was formally brought to my attention when I was made aware of a formal application. When there are over 2500 applications for this highly successful fund I tend to remain aloof from the vast majority of applications. On occasions where I am required to exercise discretion such as this one I recused myself appropriately.Chris Bishop: So is he seriously saying that the first time he learnt that there was a company called Future Forest Products Ltd was when he was formally notified by the officials that he was at some point in the future going to have to make a determination about their application to the Provincial Growth Fund?Hon SHANE JONES: At the risk of suffering repetitive strain injury I stand by the answer that I have given. I became aware of this formal application on 14 October. Now any other suggestions about knowledge of the company which I remain ignorant of are never going to change irrespective of how many porcupine quills he throws.Hon Grant Robertson: Can the Minister confirm that what occurred here was that he recused himself from the Provincial Growth Fund Ministers' meeting when it was addressing the application of N.Z. Future Forest Products and that the remaining Ministers declined the application?Hon SHANE JONES: I can confirm that I recused myself separated myself physically from the other three Ministers as they worked through the approvals process. I can also confirm that this mission of maliciousness is being driven by an ill-informed and quite bent out of shape journalist hoping to do damage to the party I belong to."