Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:637;Page:7629] 
6.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he stand by his statement that “86000 children will definitely get 20 free hours under Labour”; if so in what time frame will this be achieved? 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Education 
: Yes. Based on current enrolments of 3 and 4-year-olds in teacher-led early childhood centres Labour’s policy of 20 free hours will definitely be available for up to 92000 children—more than 86000—from 1 July. Further the Minister stands by his statement made prior to the last election that 86000 children will be worse off under National’s plan to axe the 20 hours’ free policy. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister understand why parents are confused about how many kids will actually receive 20 hours’ free early childhood education when he told them pre-election that 92000 children would “definitely get 20 hours under Labour” then said “up to 92000 will get 20 free hours” and only yesterday said “potentially 92000 children will get 20 free hours”; which is it because there is a world of difference in those statements? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I can understand anyone’s confusion if he or she listened to that member. There is no confusion in knowing that every single child would be worse off under a National-led Government. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Does the Minister sometimes think as he works his way through the complexities of the 20 hours’ free education policy—particularly with regard to the for-profit sector—that he cannot help but conclude he was thrown a huge hospital pass by his predecessor Trevor Mallard? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: No because any opportunity to improve access to early childhood education which is what our Government is committed to is worthwhile for the engagement with that part of the sector. 
Dianne Yates 
: Has the Minister received any information about how many 3 and 4-year-olds would receive 20 hours’ free early childhood education under a National Government? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Yes I have. The answer is not one single child. The National Party’s policy as set out clearly on its website is to scrap 20 hours’ free early childhood education. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I want to point out that the Minister had no ministerial responsibility in the context of the question asked but I realise that to do so would be a waste of time. The reality is that one cannot scrap a policy that cannot be implemented. There is nothing for National to scrap because Labour is not doing anything. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister answer the question that every parent wants to know the answer to which is whether it will be that 92000 children will “definitely get 20 hours under Labour” that “up to 92000 will get 20 free hours” or as the Minister said yesterday “potentially 92000 children will get 20 free hours”—which is it? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Actually “up to” and “potentially” mean exactly the same thing. I clarify for the member who seems to be the only confused person in the country that Labour’s 20 hours’ free policy will be available to 3 and 4-year-olds in all teacher-led early childhood education centres from 1 July this year. 
Katherine Rich 
: When some centres are planning to charge top-up donations which will basically be compulsory fees if parents want their kids to be in that centre how can 20 hours’ free education be free if they are not free or is that just loony Labour Government logic? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: This has been explained to the member previously but I will try to do so once more because she clearly remains confused. The key rule is that parents cannot be charged for 20 hours’ free early childhood education. That is the key part of the meaning of “free”. 
Paula Bennett 
: What does the Minister say to centres that need to insist on a voluntary parental payment just to cover costs and are very concerned that these payments do not provide enough security of income to run a centre? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I would say to those centres that they would be very very unlikely to get any increased funding from a National Government as would parents who would not gain one scrap because not one single child would have any free early childhood education under that member’s policy. The subsidy will cover all operating costs including teachers’ salaries administrations costs professional services utilities capital and property costs such as rent or mortgage and the repayment and replacement of assets. 
Paula Bennett 
: When will the Minister admit to parents that 20 hours’ free early childhood education was simply a slogan and that parents will need to top up this subsidy with a so-called voluntary payment? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Not at all because it is just not true—wrong again.