McAnulty Kieran; Bishop Chris; Pugh MaureenHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour): Thank you very much Madam Chair. The annual-review appearance at select committee was useful and it enabled us to put some context in the claim that the Prime Minister made in his state of the nation speech the story that presumably they lined up before that which indicated that there was advice sitting on their desk when they got under Government that said that Kāinga Ora was going to sell 10200 homes because the appearance at select committee clarified that that was contingent on this Government not providing funding post-2025—a pretty important piece of context. And I can confirm that no such advice was ever received by any Minister from the previous Government. What they also confirmed at select committee is that if there is no funding certainty moving forward Kāinga Ora and some community housing providers may not be able to continue with their plans to build houses. We've already seen Kāinga Ora announce some cancellation projects. We've seen community housing providers like the Salvation Army indicate that they have cancelled projects. My question to the Minister is: how many Kāinga Ora projects and how many community housing projects have been cancelled since this Government was formed?Hon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing): Well in relation to the member's last part of the question you'd have to put that in writing cos I don't know. At any given point there will be—Kāinga Ora owns 70000 houses around the country and it's $45 billion company. So at any given time there will be any number of projects that are rephased deferred—some may have been cancelled. The market economics of building change literally on a weekly basis.Hon Member: Ground conditions.Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Ground conditions—there'd be any number of things. So I'd have to go and look it up and if the member puts it in writing—Hon Kieran McAnulty: I'll do that. That's all good.Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Yeah we can have a look at that. But as I say at any given moment—and it would have been true in the last six years too; there are all sorts of projects that will have been cancelled. I mean to give one notable example there is Porirua East which was announced with great fanfare in 2021 or perhaps even a touch earlier than that which has been massively downscaled which was done very quietly in mid-2023 without many public pronouncements—I suspect because the Government wasn't very keen on it but that's what happened. So as I say at any given particular moment there'd be any number of changes to projects.Just to repeat the point and to deal with the member's first point it is a matter of fact that when the current Government came to office the figures that the member is talking about around State house sales were presented to us. Yes it is true that that figure is without any increase in support for Kāinga Ora but it's worth also bearing in mind that that is the situation we inherited. So it is not true that the outgoing Government had provided budgetary support or the fiscal support in order to avoid that situation. Kāinga Ora did its budget in December 2023 based on the settings not from the current Government but from the outgoing Government. So it was right on the precipice of the change in Government and Ministers had barely been sworn in and had not taken any policy decisions whatsoever. So it is true to say that the situation in December was as has been presented by the Government and that is one of the tricky challenges that we are going to have to deal with as a Government and it's one of the reasons as I said earlier why we have commissioned an independent review into Kāinga Ora because that is an alarming state of affairs.CHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): Members our time with the Minister of Housing has now ended. We have the Minister of Police now available for 45 minutes to respond to members' questions.