4. Question No. 4—FinanceDAMIEN SMITH (ACT) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 4—Finance4. DAMIEN SMITH (ACT) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that the Government has no intention" of giving tax cuts; and if so why? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): I stand by my statement in its full and proper context which is that the Government's focus during this period and in the upcoming Budget is on making sure that we support those in low and middle income households to get through this period of time whilst also continuing to invest in important parts of the New Zealand economy and society such as our health system our education system and in housing. It is my view that untargeted tax cuts are not the best use of money right now. Instead we need to be investing in long-term challenges that are facing New Zealand in the form of healthcare climate change and affordable housing and supporting people through the current rises in the cost of living. Damien Smith: Does the Minister accept that taxes taken per person by this Government and grabbed from their household budgets have risen by $2138 even when adjusted for inflation and if not why not? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I accept is that this Government campaigned on increasing the top tax rate from 33c to 39c. We have certainly seen more people in work and more people earning higher wages during that period of time. It is important for any Government to make judgments in a given period of time as to what their priorities are. What we have had to face is the fact that the whole world has had a COVID-19 pandemic and members of the Opposition might like to reflect on the fact that they not only at times supported the wage subsidy scheme and the COVID-19 Support Payment but actually asked us to go further and spend more. We believe we've got the balance right. Damien Smith: So does the Minister believe people who have appeared in the media recently who say their household expenses have increased by $5000 to $7000 per annum and if so can he understand why they would see these circumstances as a real crisis? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I've said both today and yesterday in the House and the Prime Minister has repeated it again today in the House there is considerable pressure on a number of households from the rising cost of living. That rising cost of living is driven by inflation many of which of the causes are out of the control of the Government. What is in control of the Government is making sure that we continue to support those families—particularly those on low and middle incomes—through initiatives such as as the Prime Minister has said today the increase in the family tax credit which will deliver considerably more to those middle-income households than the kinds of tax cuts the member is proposing. Damien Smith: So what is wrong with letting the average earner keep over $2000 more of their own money to battle rising prices under ACT's policy or does he believe we can grow our way out of these challenges effectively? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The difficulty for the member is that these things don't happen in a vacuum. If the decision was taken to adopt the ACT Party's policy as he has just articulated that would mean considerable trade-offs including cutting very important parts of our social security safety net as well as very important parts of the Government's work programme. There are no easy choices when you're in Government. We believe we've got the balance right. Hon Chris Hipkins: Can the Minister of Finance confirm that essential workforces like our nurses and our teachers who have received significant pay increases under this Government got that after nearly a decade in which their salaries remained relatively stagnant? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yes I can confirm that and that is one of the issues that this Government has had to face on coming into office. [Member interjects] It was not only the chronic underfunding of the health sector but also the fact that the wages of those in the health and education sectors had slipped so far behind. As the Prime Minister indicated in her answers both yesterday and today we've seen significant lifts in teachers' salaries and in nurses' salaries. We believe that is an important thing to do but we have to be able to pay for it and if we have parties advocating large-scale tax cuts they won't be able to do that. SPEAKER: Before I call Damien Smith which member interjected while Chris Hipkins was asking his supplementary? It was a member I think in that quartile somewhere. Damien Smith: Does the Minister believe that under ACT's tax policy nurses and teachers would be better off? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No I don't for the reasons that I've articulated. While the member might like to propose in a vacuum a particular tax cut it has to be set in the context of everything else that a Government is required to do and those teachers and those nurses want to make sure that they're in good quality hospitals that they're teaching in good classrooms and that they're supported to do their work. That is what we are doing.Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern: Does he believe nurses would support ACT's policy that all of the decisions taken to try and keep COVID away from New Zealanders for as long as possible was actually the wrong decision and they would have rather traded lives instead? SPEAKER: Order! Order! Even at a stretch that doesn't come within this Minister's responsibility. Hon Chris Hipkins: Would it be possible for a Government to give pay increases to essential workforces like teachers and nurses if the entire new spending allowance in Budget 2024 was given out in tax cuts? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Absolutely not and that is the issue here for those who are proposing tax cuts which they say are about one Budget. The reality of Government accounting is that that carries on and if we're going to go around slashing all of the other things that have been proposed by the Opposition then in Budget 2024 there won't be a single cent in new operating spending for paying teachers and nurses more."