Collins Judith: Alcohol Reform Bill — In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Collins Judith: Alcohol Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 24 October 2012. Volume:685;Page:6169. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 I just want to address some of the issues that have been raised by the previous speakers since the dinner break. One of the suggestions that the member who has just resumed his seat Charles Chauvel has made is that I am under some particularly difficult and powerful pressure from the alcohol industry. I have to say that the member clearly does not know me that well if he thinks I would actually really care a fig frankly about any pressure at all— 
Charles Chauvel 
: I know you too well. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: No I do not actually think the member does really. I think he has got a very short memory but no doubt he is going to find out differently. One of the things that I found very interesting is that the only people who I can recall lobbying me to bring in a minimum price have been the Opposition parties which of course they are completely entitled to do and also the alcohol industry. In fact the hospitality industry has actually come to me and said that it—and of course it sells alcohol— 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: There’s a difference between the hospitality industry and the alcohol industry. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Miss Dalziel says that the hospitality industry is different from the alcohol industry. I am sorry but it actually sells alcohol. It has lobbied me to say that it would like— 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: They’ve got different interests. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Oh it has got different interests. So it is not selling alcohol? So it is selling alcohol? 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: What did Katherine Rich say? 
Charles Chauvel 
: What did the grocers say Judith? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Actually they have not been to see me. 
Charles Chauvel 
: You just let them see Margaret instead. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Well actually I think one of the things is that there has been an accusation in the Committee tonight that I am under tremendous pressure and giving into pressure from the alcohol industry. I hope that that was not the real accusation. That is the way I heard it and I would just like to put that to bed. 
 The hospitality industry has been and said to me that it wants minimum pricing and we know why. It is to get maximum profits—that is what it means. That means as well that the people who have actually been lobbying me against minimum pricing are not the alcohol industry. 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: They’re not affected by it. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: No no not at all. Actually the people who have been lobbying me are people from my electorate people from around the country and particularly people who say “Hang on I’m a responsible drinker. Why should the price of my alcohol go up?”. People who are for instance over 65 years old and on a pension say to me “If I can get a bottle of alcohol or wine or something at $6 or $7 on special in the supermarket why should I not be able to buy it? Why should I be penalised?”. They say to me “Why should the price of my alcohol go up because of the irresponsibility of others?”. If anyone seriously thinks that young people are going into supermarkets and buying up wine at $6 a bottle and then getting drunk I have to say that I do not think that is actually borne out by the facts. It is a different brand it is a different style and it is a different age group. It is just like when Jim Anderton with the very best of intentions brought in some extra taxes around ready-to-drinks and it eventually ended up being a sherry tax. The people who actually did end up paying were the elderly who were buying sherry. 
What we have is a situation where people think that this is the alcohol industry against minimum pricing. Why would the hospitality industry want minimum pricing? 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: Because they make nothing out of it. They get nothing out of it. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Miss Dalziel says it gets nothing out of it. I am sorry— 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: They charge above the minimum price. The hospitality industry pays above the minimum price. These are on-licence premises not off-licence premises. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Miss Dalziel you have had your chance. You have had five calls on this— 
Charles Chauvel 
: More to come. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: That is just fine. I am looking forward to it. I think Mr Chauvel you should let Miss Dalziel get on and do her own because she is quite capable of speaking for herself. She does not need to be protected. 
I think it is important to understand that a minimum price is a very blunt instrument. The Ministry of Justice is working on a paper a report about how it has worked. We were told this year that this was all going to be fabulous because Scotland had done it. Now we find out that Scotland has not done this. It has actually stopped it. In fact what we are finding is that a lot of the things that we have been told are not actually quite correct. I think we do need to be very sensible about this. 
The previous Labour Government obviously along with Miss Dalziel took this very seriously and brought in a bill. Unfortunately it was in the last few days or months of when Labour was in power after the 9 years it was in power. But my predecessor took over this bill and then changed it. Having said that— 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: You adopted it. You sent it to select committee. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Miss Dalziel says we sort of took it over. Well we did in a way in that the Sale and Supply of Liquor and Liquor Enforcement Bill which was her bill had local alcohol policies of a sort. 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: Plans. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Plans sorry. It dealt with dairies by stopping any stores with fewer than 150 metres of floor space from selling alcohol. It had a kind of three-strikes regime for the sellers who were out of order which is something we have kept in. There was some stronger stuff around advertising of alcohol and some stronger stuff on proof of age to buy alcohol which was good. Almost all of the rest of it has been transferred into the Alcohol Reform Bill. 
In addition what we have done is brought in local decision-makers the district licensing committees to be the first decision-makers for licensing putting licensing decisions in the hands of local people. We have done a lot more around the advertising of alcohol and put restrictions on advertising significant discounts on alcohol. We have done national default maximum trading hours with much more robust licensing conditions; new rules on responsible supply to minors requiring parental consent which is an important step to give parents more control over how young people drink; changes to liquor ban enforcement bringing in an infringement offence so that the police can give the infringement and get on with their job; and a whole range of little changes to clean up and streamline the law. 
This Alcohol Reform Bill is a very comprehensive piece of work. It is something that is significantly better than what there was before but I do however acknowledge the work that the Hon Lianne Dalziel did and the efforts she made with the then Labour Government. Unfortunately it was too late in its term of office of 9 years to do anything about it. But that does not mean that we have to as a Parliament give in to all the various things and take on all the new ideas that it has got without saying that we need evidence-based procedures we need to think very carefully about it and we also need to bear in mind that the vast majority of New Zealanders who drink about 85 percent of the population do not abuse alcohol. It is not the use of alcohol that is the problem; it is the abuse of alcohol that is the problem. 
The other thing we were talking about is young people. I think we are all very concerned about young people and particularly binge drinking. The best place to stop that is in the home. The best place for parents to take responsibility for their young people and to show them the way in which they behave is in the home. If you have a young person in a home where the parents are binge drinking guess what? You have got more than an 80 percent chance I would say of getting that young person thinking that that is the way you drink. If the father goes out and behaves like a complete idiot on alcohol I am sorry but the kids are going to either completely go that way or go completely the opposite way. That is what happens. If you have got mothers going around drunk at home that is what you are going to get. In fact it is all very well saying to the sellers of alcohol “You shouldn’t be selling it.” Actually maybe we should not be buying it at the levels we do. How about a bit of personal responsibility there? It is all very well to say “Yes we target particular areas.” Yes we know that sellers target particular areas. That is because unfortunately people are buying it in those areas. 
As to the ideas about saying that we are just going to stop this do we really want to end up like we did years and years ago until about the 1950s when the King Country was dry? We want to look at the west Auckland area. They have licensing trusts there. There are very few outlets for alcohol. I can tell this Committee that that is an area of domestic violence fuelled by alcohol just like other parts of the country. There is no lack of domestic violence and no lack of drink-driving in west Auckland and yet there are hardly any liquor outlets. So we need to be responsible we need to be sensible and we must not be hysterical. 
I would say to this Committee that we have had a great debate about this. Everyone has put a lot of effort into it. I know we are not always going to agree. I know our hearts are all in the right place but we do need to be moderate. This bill is moderate it is sensible it is comprehensive and it deals with the major issues. Of course it is not going to be the last word on alcohol; it never will be because we are all very interested in it.