Chadwick Steve: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
Chadwick Steve: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:608;Page:5753] 
STEVE CHADWICK (NZ Labour—Rotorua) 
: 
 I rise in support of this bill and I am very sad at what I have witnessed and heard in the speeches tabled in this House. This bill has done something to this House that I have not seen in the 4 years I have been at Parliament. It has pitted women against women it has pitted the church against the humanists among us and it has treated women who choose the profession of prostitution as if they are the lowest of the low and the scum of the earth. I am appalled at it. 
This bill has brought out homophobic responses that have simply disgusted me. I received a group of marchers in Rotorua—200 came to me. They were all people whom I know and respect and I think that their church probably does more for their well-being as church members than the State does. But they also cast aspersions on women who choose prostitution as a profession and did not mention the men. That did not happen at all. The men are fine. They can go and use the services of a prostitute but those marchers denigrated the women and did not awhi them in to their lives and show them there is another way. 
I have experience in this profession in that I ran a women’s health service. I do not think that many members understand what happens in the real world. Do members know that for those people who use the mental health service we engaged the services of a prostitute through State health services. We did that to stop peeping toms perverts and people who had problems with their own sexual health and identification? We actually pay for them to use the services of a prostitute and it keeps the community safe. 
The other thing we do in public health services in this country is encourage and fund the Prostitutes Collective to go in work alongside the industry to help women who might choose to get out of the industry and also to help women to check their health and safety needs so that they keep themselves safe and do not get into the dangers of unsafe sex practices—which clients are prepared to pay more for. They encourage those women to protect their bodies from sexually transmitted infections. 
This bill aims to take away the criminalised aspect of that and it de-penalises the aspect of having evidence of safe sex on the premises—that is condoms sheaths diaphragms and lubricants. If those things are found on the premises who gets the criminal charge? The prostitute does and that is unfair. There is no talk of the men at all. In fact 13 women were arrested in Auckland just in December. That is evidence that this is going on right now. Clause 6 provides for those health and safety in employment practices. 
I admire the Prostitutes Collective. It has done a wonderful job with us in public health and in working with women. Its members are not the lowest of the low; they are married women and women who have chosen to go into this industry. It is certainly not where I want my child to go. I have heard ridiculous aspersions made in this House that this bill normalises prostitution. What absolute rubbish! Prostitution is part of society and has been for years and years. We will not change that. We will not change that with a legal status but we will decriminalise it so that the prostitute does not commit an offence— 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Prostitution is already legal. 
STEVE CHADWICK 
: That is right. We will decriminalise the evidence of safe sex practices—that is all. I think that that is very safe and very sound legislation. 
I am also really tired of hearing the allegation that we are going to destroy the very fibre of families. I have looked at people who have stood up and said that and they believe that their way of life is better than a more humanist approach. I do not accept the argument that we will break down the value and the fibre of the family at all. We are a Government that has supported the Families Commission. We are looking at those aspects that drive women into making a lot of money out of prostitution and that is dealing with the root cause of prostitution which is poverty. We all accept that. We are a Government that has taken that responsibility seriously. 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS (Minister of State) 
: 
Tenei kei te mihi atu ki a koe te Kaiwhakahaere o te Whare. Kei te mihi hoki ki ngamatua ki ngawhaea o nga tamariki e whakarongo mai ana ki eneiwhakawhitiwhitikoreroi roto i te Whare Paremataiteneipo. 
Mr Chairman I just acknowledged you as the chairman of the proceedings tonight and I also acknowledged the many Maori parents mothers and fathers who have children and who are listening to this debate tonight. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member must not refer to radio listeners. 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: I am talking from the perspective of a father of two teenage children. Last year I was invited by the Maori Wardens Association to go to Auckland particularly south Auckland for two nights running. There I witnessed with my own eyes and saw a degradation of our mokopuna and our young babies. When I say that I mean I took the time out overnight until about 3 o’clock in the morning to traverse the streets of Auckland with the Maori wardens. They are totally opposed to this bill. They are the people who are at the coalface irrespective of all the academic arguments that relate to something that is more fundamental than this—that is the exploitation of our young mokopuna and our young children. If they are determined to grow up to become adult prostitutes that is their business. But from a father’s perspective I am saying that I was outraged by the people I met and very saddened by the young girls I met at Hunter’s Corner. Some of them were 13 years old and some of them were my own relations my nieces—unknown to me. When I mentioned what I saw to their parents they were outraged that their children were on the streets at 3 o’clock in the morning acting as prostitutes—prostituting themselves for so many dollars. 
I thank you for the opportunity to speak. I did not denigrate anybody in terms of this debate because this is a conscience debate. I respect everybody who has stood to make a contribution and I will continue to do so. But I expect that other colleagues who differ in their opinion will also respect my position. I come from a different perspective—one that values women. In this country we have a Prime Minister who is a woman. Our Governor-General is a woman as is our Chief Justice. They did not achieve those positions without struggle. 
The struggle of women over many years right around this world has been highlighted by the evolution of women specifically in its cultural aspects. We see the exploitation of women right around the world for some sort of cultural reason and cultural analysis. Right around this world we have seen women being degraded from birth until the time they die. I am proud to say that I am a New Zealander who has seen the evolution of women and the rights of women integrated into our modern society in New Zealand and I will not stand by and see women degraded. 
 I will give an analysis of that. If a male walks into a brothel—or whatever it is—and has sex with a woman without her consent that would contravene the criminal code and that person would probably be liable to 7 years’ imprisonment. Think about this: the act and the sequence of events is exactly the same. If a male walks into a brothel and has sex with a woman without her consent he would be charged with rape and could possibly end up in jail for a number of years. I ask members to think about this. If the same person goes through the same sequence of events and pays $100 then the principle all of a sudden disappears. The degradation of women all of a sudden disappears. Where is the principle? What happened to it? What happened to the values that we hold dear to our hearts in terms of equality for women? What happened? Has it been paid off by $100? That is total and utter hypocrisy—think about it. Think about the underlying principles of what we are talking about. Simply because a woman has accepted $100 does it mean that the event is no longer illegal and that we as a society and as a people accept it? 
I want members to think about our mokopuna and about the comparison I made in regard to mokopuna. What type of message is this Parliament giving to them when a person can front up with $100 and everything is OK? The principle of the equality of women no longer applies. Where is the principle? This House should think about whether we can buy women’s values simply because we make an exchange of money. Is that what we are talking about? Is that the honesty of the principle we are talking about? Let us get to the nitty-gritty. Let us get to the truth of it: we are saying that women have no value. The only value a woman has is determined by how much money we pay—is that what it is all about? 
I want members to think deeply and very consciously about the principles of what we are trying to apply here if we support this bill irrespective of all the amendments that go along with it to enable it to get through. I am asking members of this House to think deeply about the principle of the message we are trying to give our young mokopuna and our children who right now tonight are on the streets. As a father as a parent I ask members to think about what they are doing—would they do it to their own daughters? I would not do it to my daughter—would other members? I ask male and female members of the House—both my own Labour colleagues and colleagues across the other side of the Chamber—whether they would do this; whether would they take the risk? Members should stand up and be counted. 
I come back to what I said before. Are we all about the exchange of values for money? Is that what we are all about? Can we buy everything? Can we buy the principles that we live by and believe in in this House? I ask every member of this House to examine his or her conscience about what we are doing tonight. No reira kei te mihi atu ki a tatou katoa. Kei te mihi aroha ki nga—and I acknowledge the parents both Maori and Pakeha who are listening to this debate tonight hoi anototatou Whare tena koutou tena koutou kia ora mai anotatou katoa.