5. Question No. 5—HealthDr SHANE RETI (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of HealthQuestion No. 5—Health5. Dr SHANE RETI (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his September statement The reality is we have available at the moment roughly 325 ICU or ICU capable beds"; if so how does he reconcile that answer with his response to written question No. 50686 that "there are 284 resourced ICU/high dependency unit beds"?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health): Yes and officials advised recently that they have changed the basis on which they calculate ICU and ICU-capable beds.Dr Shane Reti: Does he agree that it is resourced ICU beds that are important and that ICU nurses are a limiting factor?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: What's important is for people to know that if they require intensive care because of COVID in our public hospital system they will get that care and the care that is required means a bed means a ventilator—if that is necessary—and it means staff who are capable of providing that care and we will have that care in place.Dr Shane Reti: How then does he reconcile his claim that we can add 225 surge ICU beds if needed with Friday's peer-reviewed editorial in the New Zealand Medical Journal which found New Zealand only has enough ICU nurses to add 67 ICU beds not the 225 he is claiming?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well very easily. We have a number of beds that are in designated ICU wards in our hospitals around the country and then we have a number of other beds in other parts of hospitals—for example in post-operative recovery and in other areas. And then with the additional training that has been given to nursing staff and others and with the additional ventilators that are available officials advise that we can provide surge capacity for that additional care if we need it.Dr Shane Reti: So are the three ICU specialists who wrote in the New Zealand Medical Journal wrong?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I go on the advice of Ministry of Health officials—which includes the Chief Medical Officer who himself is a senior surgeon from Counties Manukau Health—and a range of other specialists and experts who put that advice together who are very careful about making sure that the facilities we have available in the New Zealand public hospital network are capable of providing the care that is needed particularly in the face of the pandemic.Hon Todd McClay: Why are there only four resourced ICU beds in the whole of the Lakes DHB area with either three or all four beds in use for 60 percent of the last two months and will he give an absolute assurance to the people of Rotorua and Taupō that no one who needs a resourced ICU bed will miss out?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The answer to that question is very simple and that's the "graph of shame". [Holds up graph] If you want to have a look at the history of investment in public health facilities over the last 14 years the nine years of short stubby blue bars is the National Party and the tall handsome red ones are the Labour Party. The reality is that the Labour Government in four years has invested six times as much in public health facilities than the nine years of the previous National Government. What I can reassure that member because of his failure to speak up for his own constituents in the time that his party was in Government is that we will have the care available for people who require hospital-level care as a result of the pandemic. And if it's not in their local hospital it will be because the response that we are putting in place is organised on a regional hospital basis and they will get that care in the public hospital system that they need.Hon Todd McClay: Point of order Mr Speaker?SPEAKER: I'm going to warn the member: if he complains about the answer—Hon Todd McClay: No I'm not complaining about the answer and you'll be able to judge when I finish.SPEAKER: I can't imagine what another point of order would be.Hon Todd McClay: Well that's the great thing about points of order; one doesn't have to imagine.SPEAKER: All right. The member will have a go and if it's disorderly he'll go.Hon Todd McClay: Thank you. Mr Speaker there was so much noise I couldn't hear the Minister—whether he confirmed there were only four beds.SPEAKER: Well that's exactly the point I made to the member. It was a complaint about not being able to hear it. The member will leave the Chamber.Hon Todd McClay withdrew from the Chamber."