Genter Julie Anne: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeGenter Julie Anne: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 20 August 2015. Volume:707;Page:6021. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green) to the Minister of Finance: Does the Thirty Year New Zealand Infrastructure Plan identify reduction of greenhouse gas pollution and adaptation to climate change as key challenges for infrastructure planning over the next 30 years; if not why not?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance) on behalf of theMinister of Finance: Yes adaptation to and mitigation of climate change is discussed throughout The Thirty Year New Zealand Infrastructure Plan 2015. I refer the member to the executive summary of said plan which says: “Our climate is changing and our natural resources are under pressure. … As a country we have a wealth of natural resources but we are beginning to deplete some of our important natural resources and are reaching limits on some of the crucial inputs such as land and fresh water. These issues raise questions around how we develop and manage our infrastructure—it needs to be resilient to changes over time and use resources efficiently.” So when the member reads the plan she will have much to look forward to.Julie Anne Genter: Why is climate change not mentioned even once in the action plan on page 51 of the 30-year infrastructure report?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well actually I am not sure that the member is completely correct although I would have to refer to it. Actually there are some references in a number of places in the report in regard to climate change. For example there is a summary of future work which on page 69 includes advice to Ministers and other departments about potential opportunities to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the transport sector. It also refers on page 80 to the Ministry for the Environment publishing updated climate projections for New Zealand and guidance to local government on coastal hazards and climate change. So I am not sure that there are no reports in there on climate change.Julie Anne Genter: What specific projects in the national infrastructure plan will reduce greenhouse gas emissions and what percentage of the overall spend on infrastructure do they make up?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I do not have that to hand and I am not sure that would be a practical way of presenting an infrastructure plan. The reality is that all infrastructure has to take into account climate change. For example if you are expecting sea level rise and you are building a bridge in a coastal environment you will probably build it a little higher than you perhaps would have in the past and we see that a number of times in a number of infrastructure projects. We would also take a different approach including what expectations you would have on transport mode use development and in a range of areas but I do not think that you could ascribe many individual projects as directly a response to climate change. It is more the way you adapt the infrastructure development to both respond to and mitigate climate change.Julie Anne Genter: Does he see the incoherence in having an infrastructure plan that mentions climate in passing but devotes over 80 percent of transport spending to projects that will increase carbon emissions rather than decrease them?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I just do not agree with the member’s characterisation of transport projects. This may come to the quite fundamental difference between the Government and the Green Party on this matter because the Government does not believe that people will sacrifice their personal mobility over the next 50 years in response to climate change. We believe that actually they will change the fuel mix of their vehicles in response to climate change but there will still be cars and there will probably still be buses and these will need roads and that is the bulk of the transport projects that the member refers to.Tim Macindoe: What comments has the Minister seen on the 30-year infrastructure plan since its release earlier today?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I have seen a number of comments including a series of tweets from a well-known economic and environmental commentator of some standing. This person says: “Government announces 30-year infrastructure plan—doesn’t mention climate once. What planet are National living on?!”. I am happy to refer that commentator to a number of places in the report if I can indulge the House briefly: the executive summary that I have referred to; page 16 talks about rising sea levels and increasing rainfall; page 25 discusses reducing transport’s share of greenhouse gases; page 47 talks about adaptation including climate change; page 65 says that the infrastructure unit will be recording the responses to climate change; pages 69 and 80—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Bring the answer to a conclusion.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: So I expect the author of that tweet will find much to like in this report when she gets around to reading it.Julie Anne Genter: I seek leave to table the Minister of Finance’s speech which mentioned climate change—Mr SPEAKER: No no. Order! The speech is available on the internet to all members.Julie Anne Genter: What is the Minister’s response to the Global Commission on the Economy and Climate which calls on Governments to prioritise infrastructure that reduces greenhouse pollution as the best way to achieve stronger economic performance and amongst that infrastructure to prioritise public transport in urban areas?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I have some awareness of exactly how much we have already done that which is huge actually. This Government has arrived at a point and invested alongside local government to ensure that we have brand new electric commuter trains in both of our major cities Auckland and Wellington. That has happened under this Government. This Government has also invested hugely in public transport more generally. This Government has invested more than any previous Government in cycling and I think if you look this Government has probably invested more in the rail sector than any Government going back 50 or 60 years. So to suggest that this Government and its infrastructure plan is not investing in the sorts of things that the member would like I think is simply incorrect.Julie Anne Genter: Apart from electrification of the rail network which was promised by a previous Government are there any new major projects in the 30-year plan that will reduce emissions and enable New Zealand families households and businesses to go about their daily lives without increasing carbon emissions; if so what are they?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I firstly need to correct the member’s incorrect version of the electrification in Auckland. It may have been wish-listed by a previous Government but it was funded and appropriated by this Government in the face of the global financial crisis. She can pretend that is not the case because it does not fit her narrative but it is not true. And in terms of the future we will continue to invest in public transport but as I pointed out to the member earlier personal mobility is something that many New Zealanders hold in very high regard. They will not necessarily sacrifice that because of the Greens wanting them to but they will be prepared to change fuel sources and that means that private passenger vehicles will continue to be a very important part of the transport mix well into the future.Julie Anne Genter: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek your advice on this. I thought that the question was quite specific and asked which new projects—new projects—Mr SPEAKER: No no. [Interruption] Order! I invite the member to go back and look at her question. She started with words to the effect of “Apart from the electrification of rail etc. that was done by a previous Government” and then she led into her question. That gave the opportunity for the Minister to respond to that part of the question.Julie Anne Genter: Are the Minister and the rest of the Cabinet living on another planet where somehow climate change is not going to affect infrastructure or change the way that people get around or will they join us in the real world where global business leaders are calling on Governments to prioritise climate change and pollution reduction in their infrastructure planning?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: It is never a good idea to write your last supplementary question before you come down to the House because I have shown through all the answers that that is completely different. Here is the plan and here is page 7 for the member with the reference to climate change. Here is a later page page 47. Here is another page page 33. Here is another page page 69. Here is another page page 80. If the member would like me to get my stickers out highlight it for her and deliver it to her office I am more than happy to do so.