Scott AlastairALASTAIR SCOTT (National—Wairarapa): I would just like to reflect on the contribution from the last speaker Sue Moroney regarding Masala restaurant and its $2 an hour issue. That was an employer-employee relationship and that was an abusive employer and that employer should be punished. There is no one disagreeing with that. There is no one disagreeing with that. If that same employer had these guys on a contract that would make no difference. The employer would still have an employer-employee relationship with those people and they would still be breaking the law. So we all agree that these—to quote Mr Parker—toe-rags" are the guys who we want to make sure do not operate. We all agree on that but this is not the solution to that problem. The solution is to give labour inspectors more resource which is what the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety has given in the last Budget to make sure that those employer-employee relationships that are out there that are covered or disguised if you like by a contract are not a contract at all. So let us be clear: there are employer-employee relationships that are disguised as contracts and that is unacceptable. This is not the way to solve that problem; in fact this does confuse things. So let us look at Supplementary Order Papers 203 and 204. I was looking at the original list and then we found that the pamphlet guys the guys who are the most vulnerable—these are the guys who sort of kicked this whole thing off the guys who took a long time to deliver pamphlets because they wanted a social outing. At the end of the day if you added up the hours that they took delivering those pamphlets they were certainly getting paid less than the minimum wage. They were certainly getting less than the minimum wage but they were happy with it because they used it as a social occasion and they were slow—they were slow. A young fella on a bike would earn more than the minimum wage delivering the same pamphlets. The guy who wanted pamphlets delivered he did not give a toss who delivered those pamphlets—he did not care who delivered those pamphlets. He was concerned only about those pamphlets being delivered on time and at the right price. It just seems bizarre to me that those people who kicked this bill off are excluded—are excluded—from the protection that this bill is designed to give. The most vulnerable according to some are excluded—they are not protected—all because of Mr Tabuteau's contribution earlier. That was New Zealand First's condition of support for this bill. Disgraceful—disgraceful—allowing the most vulnerable to be paid less than the minimum wage for your political gain. You have got Mr Parker who has all the right intentions confused. Unfortunately for Mr Parker that group of people is not protected in the bill proposed by Mr Parker. That is a disgrace. The other thing that was interesting was Mr Lees-Galloway quite rightly pointing out that if a time was agreed to and an hourly rate was agreed to then that was essentially a contract. That is what I would call that: a contract. He would call it some sort of quasi-contract employment based on the time. If the person went over time there was no recourse for that person to claim extra. So I do not see any improvement in the bill because this is just what a contract is. It is a fixed price for a job to be done.Iain Lees-Galloway: You've got to agree a rate that meets the minimum wage.ALASTAIR SCOTT: It does not matter what rate you agree. It could be $50 an hour but if you limit the time then the total amount "x" times "y" equals "z"—it does not matter whether "y" and "z" are around the other way it still equals "z" does it not? You are just playing with numbers. Whether it is a high hourly rate and a short time or a low hourly rate and a high period of time the total is the same. That is of all concern. I am pleased to see that Mr Lees-Galloway appreciates the certainty that a contract gives a builder or a customer if you like. The other exclusion the other group of people that is excluded now under these Supplementary Order Papers is those who are employed from multiple sources and the courier driver was used as an example. So here we are—that is the third line down "courier services"."