Sharples Pita: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Sharples Pita: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:631;Page:2905] 
7.  
Dr PITA SHARPLES (Co-Leader—Maori Party) 
 to the  
Minister in Charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations 
: I runga i te ahua kua tohaina te rima miriona tara mo nga tau e wha ka taea e te Minita te ki mai e hia nga tono e pa ana ki te Tiriti o Waitangi ka oti i runga ake i nga tono i whakaritea kia oti mehemea kare i tukuna e ia te rima miriona tara hei putea? 
[ 
Given the $5 million funding over a 4-year period how many Treaty of Waitangi claims does the Minister believe will be completed over and above those that would have been completed had the $5 million not been made available? 
] 
Hon MARK BURTON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) 
: 
 The additional funding will primarily be directed at front-line negotiation and will boost that capacity by around 20 percent. This will meet the increase in demand from Maori seeking to enter into negotiations that in the last financial year alone have seen five groups have mandates for negotiation recognised by the Crown. The nature of the negotiations means that the number of settlements reached depends on mutual agreements being reached between the parties. 
Dr Pita Sharples 
: Na te aha i marama te Minita ka tere ake te ahua tono ki te Taraipunara o Waitangi mena ka tukua e ia he putea rima miriona tara mo nga tau e wha? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
How did the Minister determine that all that was necessary to speed up the process of Treaty claims was the expenditure of $5 million over 4 years? 
] 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: Certainly that is not the case. This is simply the latest increase—in fact it is the fourth in the term of this Labour-led Government—that has enhanced the research legal negotiation and pre-negotiation capability of the Office of Treaty Settlements. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Does the Minister intend to recommend to the Attorney-General that a person’s holding the dual roles of Chief Judge of the Maori Land Court and chairperson of the Waitangi Tribunal is incompatible with the tribunal’s goal of quickly reaching determinations that may assist with more speedy settlements? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Stop stealing our policies. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I have just been accused of being a thief by one of the great political thieves of this nation. I am upset and I want him to withdraw and apologise. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I did not hear what that member said but if the member took offence would that member please withdraw and apologise. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I merely said to the member that he should stop stealing our policies. If one looks at the chronology of events one can see that that is precisely what National did on that issue. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member took offence and the convention of this House is that all the member has to do is to withdraw and apologise. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Something has emerged in this House of recent date and that is that the National Party just cannot take it. Their members come down to this House fling all sorts of insults—[ 
Interruption 
] This is a point of order and there they go again. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The problem for the member is that it is not a point of order; it is a statement or a debating point at this stage. We have handled that matter so I would like us to move on if we can. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My point of order if I had been allowed to get to it despite about 20—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Members will be leaving the Chamber! 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: My point of order was simply that if we are going to have—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry. Who interjected at that point? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Mr Bennett did. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: There has to be some order in this House. No one is admitting to it. The laughter obviously came from outside the Chamber. Would members please respect the rules. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: My point of order is that if we are going to have points of order raised on the basis that Gerry Brownlee raised his—that he took offence at someone accusing him of stealing this policy—then this House will be so puce and antiseptic as not to be worth joining in the first place. That is probably a suggestion that the National Party would like us to follow but for my part I think that this is a most robust debating chamber and that people should have a bit more gumption that that. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: One of the most famous sayings in 19th century politics is about the leader of one party stealing clothing from the other party’s washing line and that saying is in relation to policy matters. We really have got to the stage where we will be so un-robust in terms of our language that Parliament will be like a PC kindergarten—and I wonder when the spokesman on PC eradication opposite will intervene in this debate. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Members have had their say on this matter. As members know I try to conduct a robust debate. But the truth is that if members take offence then there is a convention and that will be judged accordingly. [ 
Interruption 
] Does the member have another point of order? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I was just going to say that I probably did overreact. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member has said it. Could we now have an answer to the question please. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: For those who have forgotten the question the member asked me about referring a matter to the Attorney-General. Unfortunately the member asked me to make a reference on a matter for which I have no ministerial responsibility. I am responsible neither for the Waitangi Tribunal nor for the Maori Land Court. But to be helpful to the member I tell him I understand that the matter is under consideration. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Minister aware that the policy of removing the head of the Waitangi Tribunal or the head of the Maori Land Court appeared on a political party’s website a full 3 years before the National Party decided to purloin it? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: As it happens I am; indeed I recall that the New Zealand First Party supported that policy some 3 years ago. 
Hone Harawira 
: Kei te manawa pai te Minita ki nga ahua whakatatu tono ki te Taraipunara o Waitangi ahakoa he rahi nga tono atete nga whakawehewehe ngau i waenganui i nga hapu me nga iwi i runga i te ahua tuku tono a mena kei te manawa pai he aha i pera ai? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Is the Minister satisfied with the process for settling Treaty claims given the counterclaims and iwi-hapu divisions that have occurred as a result of the processes adopted; if he is satisfied why is he? 
] 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I am satisfied generally that the process which is a difficult and challenging one is making progress and accelerating. I think that the challenges include cross-claim tensions but I have been extraordinarily impressed by the way in which most hapu and iwi resolve those tensions and work towards settlement. We saw a really good example of that just last week in this House when the majority of members supported the first reading of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill. 
Hon Nanaia Mahuta 
: Can the Minister confirm that it is very difficult to settle Treaty claims when a group sits on the fence? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: Yes I can because in the end the settlement process requires constructive engagement. When we engage and seek to find solutions rather than to sit on the fence then we make the progress that this Government has indeed been making over the last 6 years. 
Ron Mark 
: Does the response of the Maori Party disappoint the Minister; and does he believe that the refusal of that party to support the Te Arawa tribe in their Treaty settlement is likely to undermine the interests of the Te Arawa tribe? 
Hone Harawira 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The vote by the Maori Party was not in opposition to the desires of the Te Arawa tribe; it was against the decisions of the Labour Party to deny them justice in their claim. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order; it is a point of explanation. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: Yes I do. Frankly the claim the member has attempted to make by way of a point of order belies the fact that that was a negotiation between two parties. To suggest that the kaumatua of Te Arawa are not capable and that they do not have the mandate and the mana to stand and negotiate a full and fair settlement on their own behalf I think is to insult them. 
Dr Pita Sharples 
: Ka taea e te Minita te whakamarama na runga i te aha i whakaritea kotahi piriona toru rau miriona te wariu o nga tono ki te Taraipunara o Waitangi a he aha hoki koira tonu te rahi o te putea ahakoa he aha; mena kahore he aha ai? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Can the Minister describe the formula and rationale used to determine the value of the Treaty claims and the rationale for continuing to compensate claims on the basis of a $1.3 billion fiscal cap; if not why not? 
] 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I take the latter part of the question first—no I cannot because there is no such fiscal cap. To the first part of the question I say that each claim is unique and individual and is negotiated accordingly. 
Dr Pita Sharples 
: I seek leave to ask an additional supplementary question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to ask an additional supplementary question. Is there any objection? Yes there is.