Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:609;Page:6334] 
4.  
RODNEY HIDE (ACT NZ) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: How many performance reviews did Te MangaiPaho Chairman Toby Curtis undertake of Te MangaiPaho chief executive Trevor Moeke and did the Te MangaiPaho board agree to roll over Trevor Moeke’s contract for another 3 years? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 My response to that member is this: because the chair has changed Te MangaiPaho has not been able to provide the information concerning performance reviews in the time available. I undertake to provide that information as soon as I have it. I understand that the chair and the board agreed to roll over Mr Moeke’s contract at a board meeting in October 2002. 
Rodney Hide 
: When the Minister provides his answer will he also check to confirm that Mr Toby Curtis in every performance review undertaken every quarter checked every box as “excellent” for Mr Moeke and that that is the reason that Mr Moeke is still on the taxpayers’ payroll; and how come this Minister does not understand what the problem is? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I want to ensure that there is validity in my responses and I am waiting for Mr Gardiner’s response at the end of the review. 
Janet Mackey 
: In the light of the external review report into allegations concerning Slightly Off Beat Productions what action has the interim chair taken concerning the performance of the chief executive? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Mr Gardiner is currently reviewing the performance of the chief executive officer. 
Katherine Rich 
: Further to his answer that the board considered the rollover of Mr Moeke’s contract in December 2002 why did he not ask for a copy of the board’s minutes to be faxed over this morning and why would it take 4 hours to confirm one way or the other whether that decision has been made? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I have been a bit busy this morning and I have asked for more information to be provided. I look forward to getting that this afternoon. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Questions put down on notice for Ministers to answer surely require the attention of the Ministers and their staff. [ 
Interruption 
] Well Mr Barker and Mr Cullen may interject and think differently but they clearly—Mr Horomia might think differently too judging by the way he is face-pulling— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Carry on. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: —but clearly they are a priority for Ministers before 2 o’clock. It is surely not acceptable to say and surely you are not going to let Ministers come to the House and say: “Well I know the question was put down but I just haven’t had time to get it.” It takes only a phone call and a fax. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: It certainly did not. I can assure the member that in fact the Minister’s office has made every effort to obtain that information. Partly because there has been a change in the chairmanship and partly because much of the other membership of Te MangaiPaho has changed information has simply not been available to be produced in time. The Minister’s office is making every effort to get that information and it will be made available as soon as it is here. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Mr Speaker— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I do not need any assistance. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Well it’s rubbish. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. The member will not interject when I am speaking. As far as I am concerned the comment made by the Minister about being busy is not something that I think was useful to make. However I took it from the Minister’s reply that he had been trying to ascertain the information and that he would get it as soon as possible and then make it available. I took that from the first answer and that is in order. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can you give us a ruling on how this information will be made available? This is a matter of public interest. The press galley is full watching the Minister and recording his answers. Is the Minister going to come down to the House and read the answer into  
Hansard 
 is he going to table the reports or is he going to just stick the answer in the mail? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is up to the Minister. Usually when a Minister has said that he will give further information to a member he does so to the member personally. Once that information is given it can become public immediately it is given. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member does not know how lucky he is. 
Rodney Hide 
: On what date did the Minister learn that the Te MangaiPaho board had rolled over Mr Trevor Moeke’s contract—which expired on 23 January this year—and why did he not share that information with the public of New Zealand to explain that this whole review process was a farce? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I do not have that information at the moment. However I assure the member that I will put it in writing and send it directly to him. 
Katherine Rich 
: Noting the Minister’s mention of Wira Gardiner once again does he stand by his statement yesterday that “most certainly” Maoris should consider voting National; if not why not? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Most certainly not. 
Hon Dover Samuels 
: I seek leave of the House to read and table a copy of a sworn affidavit I have just received from Hemana Waaka of Maori Sportscasting International Ltd. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to read and table a document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rodney Hide 
: Can the Minister explain why he does not know the date he learnt that the board had agreed to roll over Mr Moeke’s contract for 3 years or does he have to run off and check with Wira Gardiner? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: If that member puts down the specific information that he requires I will respond specifically to that member. 
Rodney Hide 
: In the light of the Minister’s failure to answer my questions in Parliament will he front up on marae around the East Coast with me as he challenged yesterday to answer those questions with him providing a translation in English so that we can get the answers in the form that he says he is most comfortable with? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I am more than certain that I can assure that member that I will be more than welcome on those marae. I am not too sure about him though. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Given the party allocation for questions I wonder whether you would reconsider today’s one. I have listened to the answer to question No. 4 and I have yet to find out anything at all or to get any information at all in respect of that question. After 4½ hours of preparation the Minister has said that he intends to refer the matter to Wira Gardiner for an answer at some other time. That being the case I think that we should be allowed extra questions above our allocation. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. I listened to the Minister answer the first question and he did give out some information. He then indicated that he would get extra information. The point of order does not stand. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I hope that this is a new point of order from the subject of your ruling. I believe it to be so. The original question I asked was how many performance reviews were undertaken. Those would have been set out in Mr Moeke’s contract and are quite a serious thing. I did not ask what the contents or the results were; I asked how many there had been. The Minister has come to the House and said he has not had time to find out how many reviews there were because he has been very busy. You have accepted that as an answer. I find that we are now in a difficult position whereby a member can ask a simple question such as how many what happened and on what date and the Minister can say he has been very busy that morning and will get back to the member. Mr Speaker you should give a direction not just for today but for the future that you will be adjudging answers and that if it is fair and reasonable that a Minister could have got that information in the 4 hours available to him or her then you would expect that Minister to have done so. I also think that in this particular case because it is such a blatant attempt not to answer a simple question you should suggest to the Minister of Maori Affairs that he get that information today and share it with the House as any capable Minister would. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: That is a blatant misuse of the point of order procedure simply for the benefit of the television cameras. First of all let us have some facts. Ministers’ offices do not get questions at 10 o’clock; it is far closer to 11 o’clock by the time questions arrive. I know because I get them first of all—the entire set. Second we have been over this point already and Te MangaiPaho was not able to give the information requested in time for question time. The Minister’s office does not have the information. It has to be obtained from Te MangaiPaho and it was unable to provide that information. That information will be provided to the member who asked the question as soon as it arrives. I repeat that the chair has changed and most of the membership of the body has changed over recent months. Therefore there is not the institutional memory for somebody to remember all those performance reviews however many there were. Those are the facts and to question those facts or the answer given for the sake of appearing on the 6 o’clock news again—with false information as happened yesterday which the member will not repeat outside the House—is a misuse of the point of order procedure. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister answered the second part of the question regarding the rolling over of the contract and I heard the answer given as a very specific answer. He did not answer the first part of the question because he said that he had to get some more facts and that he would proceed to get them. That is a perfectly acceptable way of answering a question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: This had better be a new point of order. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am pointing out to you that you have just taken a point of order from Dr Cullen suggesting— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I did not take a point of order. He spoke to it. The point of order was raised by Mr Hide. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Yes and you allowed Dr Cullen to go on at some length criticising Mr Hide and setting out a case that effectively was to excuse the Minister Parekura Horomia for his inability to answer a question today. We now have a situation where through a reply to a point of order the Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the House has effectively said that although Mr Moeke has been suspended the Minister apparently had no idea of what his employment conditions were. That is simply not believable. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Hide asked about how many performance reviews Toby Curtis undertook. Strictly that could mean as mentioned in the contract of employment of Mr Trevor Moeke. I cannot believe that that document is not obtainable and that that information could not be simply read from one clause in that document. He has had 3½ hours and to slide over this matter is to treat this House with contempt for the facts. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member is putting his own construction on the question and that is not a point of order. I call question No. 5. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It may assist matters enormously if the Minister through you could explain to this House at what time he expects to be able to provide this information and that he will come before the House and give it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. The member will know from reading his Standing Orders that that is up to the Minister. It has to be in a reasonable amount of time and I am sure that it will be. I call the Hon Peter Dunne— 
Rodney Hide 
: There’s no point in coming here and asking questions. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I warn members to be quiet. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I raise it on the grounds that there is no point in him coming here. I think the rest of us would agree with the second point; you might care to take up the offer in the first. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No on this occasion I had called Mr Dunne but he had not started. I think on reflection that I will now move to question No. 5. I call the Hon Peter Dunne. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I notice that twice now the Leader of the House has made points of order that were not points of order. Not once have you pulled him up. You have pulled up members from this side of the House every time they have made a point of order and I stand by my query: what is the point of asking questions in this House? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think on reflection that part of the comments of the Deputy Prime Minister was not in order. That is why I ask him to withdraw those points. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I withdraw. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I assume that you will now be very tough on the continual points of order from members of the Opposition that are ruled not to be points of order. There were two just before that one when no member was required to withdraw. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I take this question very seriously because we have too many points of order in this House. From correspondence I have received from all over New Zealand I must say that that is something that is constantly referred to. The Standing Orders are quite specific: every member has a right to raise a point of order. That is the Standing Order. I have to abide by that. It is not even a Speaker’s ruling; it is a full Standing Order. Because I have always believed that every member should have that right I would not like it to be curtailed. But I think it is in members’ interests that they regard this issue very seriously. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Having taken very careful consideration of what you have just said I think it is still not appropriate for Mr Hide to criticise your ruling from his chair and to get away with it. That is a clear breach of the Standing Orders and I ask you to correct that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I am going to move on at this stage.