4. Question No. 4—HousingHon GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of HousingQuestion No. 4—Housing4. Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Housing: Does she think the public should be concerned that post the 23 June announcement by the Minister of Health that a testing strategy to keep New Zealand safe" with priority testing for MIQ staff and international and maritime crews was not comprehensively put in place despite the Prime Minister stating last week that testing was happening all the way through?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): The Prime Minister was quite right when she said that testing was occurring. Prior to 13 August 811 staff across our managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) facilities were tested. While I do not have ministerial responsibility for international and maritime crews I understand testing was being rolled out and last month Minister Hipkins asked for maritime asymptomatic testing to be scaled up. As we've acknowledged there have been issues with testing and the rate did not meet our expectations. There have been issues—for instance I've heard about difficulty for some staff accessing testing due to shift work and then there was the issue with the coding of staff tests in the community that the Prime Minister mentioned. The coding issue means that not all tests would have been captured so it's likely that the actual number of staff tested prior to 13 August is higher than the number that I have just provided the member. As for managed isolation and quarantine facilities what I can confirm is that between 12 August and today 97 percent of staff working at our Auckland managed isolation and quarantine facilities have been tested and 95 percent of staff across facilities in other regions. It's important to emphasise that testing is only one element of the precautions we are undertaking in our facilities. Staff and returnees also practise physical distancing personal protective equipment is worn and daily health checks are undertaken. This virus is tricky and that's why we remain committed to continuously improving the rigorous processes at all of our facilities.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Why were two-thirds of all MIQ workers not tested by late last week?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: As the Prime Minister canvassed in the answers to her questions in this House today prior to Friday we had a voluntary system alongside surveillance testing not a mandatory system that did not come into place until the order came into being. What we did have was symptomatic staff being tested. I outlined to the member that 811 staff across our facilities prior to 12 August were tested and there were some issues and it did not meet our expectations.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Why was the advice from the Ministry of Health that backed the health Minister's statements on 23 June that called for wider-spread testing not adhered to and for what reason was an order not issued sooner?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I'll answer in as far as I have ministerial responsibility for this question. I reject the premise of the member's question that testing wasn't occurring. Testing was taking place after the decisions in June and further announcements in July. As for the timing of the order that is a question to put to the Minister of Health.Hon Gerry Brownlee: What I asked her on 6 August to guarantee that the Government's management of the border and MIQ would not result in a second wave why did she tell me the only risk of that occurring was human error when it's become very clear we're experiencing an outbreak now because of flawed policy?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Again I reject the premise of that member's question. There is absolutely no evidence to substantiate the claims that that member is making. I'd like to take the member through the facts—that we do not have a known link to an isolation facility in the current community that is being experienced. I caution that member for making assertions around this and instead to look at the comprehensive evidence that there is. In particular I point that member towards the genomic sequencing that provides a good evidence base.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was for—SPEAKER: No the member's question was actually out of order and I should have stopped him. I let it run on. On to the next supplementary.Hon Gerry Brownlee: When she was asked whether she'd learnt anything from what caused Victoria's second wave and she said to the House "what I've learnt is the importance of good Government oversight and robust procedures to ensure we keep COVID out of our communities." do the events of the last 10 days reveal that she hadn't learnt all that much from those Victorian events?SPEAKER: Order! I'm just going to ask the member to somehow tell me how that relates to the primary question or the answer?Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well I'm referring to an answer the Minister gave in the House on 6 August.SPEAKER: Well actually you've got a question today not on 6 August. Hon Gerry Brownlee: Yes I know but if the Minister said something in the House on 6 August that relates to the question today which is about testing why wouldn't I be able to ask it?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I'm happy to answer it Mr Speaker.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well no I'll ask another one.SPEAKER: No no I'm happy to be flexible and let the Minister answer it. I haven't quite got the link myself but—Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: When the member asked if I had learnt anything from the lessons of Victoria on 6 August and whether we as a Government had learnt anything from the lessons of Victoria and I said that good Government oversight was one of those lessons I absolutely stand by that answer. If the member is alluding to the kind of systemic failures that have been reported in the case of Victoria there is absolutely no evidence—there is no link—that this is the kind of situation that we are seeing in New Zealand. In regard to the worker who works in a managed isolation facility who has tested positive and does not have a genomic match with the current community cluster—it belongs to a different genomic clade—he does not have daily contact with members. It does not match the current cases and indeed he was not in a space that the person that did tests with the corresponding genomic match—who was subsequently moved to the Jet Park—was. We continue to investigate this but I caution that member against wild assertions not based in fact.Hon Gerry Brownlee: OK. When she said of MIQ testing on 6 August "We are also interested in whether or not they are licensed security companies that are being employed in these facilities. So not only have I asked the questions we have also met with unions who represent these security workers." did any of those unions oppose regular compulsory testing of their members?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Absolutely not. That is actually something that we were working with the Ministry of Health around—the roll-out of more routine asymptomatic testing in our facilities.Hon Gerry Brownlee: What were the findings of the investigations and site security assessments of all of the 31 managed isolation facilities she told the House were under way on 6 August?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: That we have robust systems in place around the security at all of our managed isolation and quarantine facilities. It is of course as I have continuously reminded this House a process of continuous improvement and that isn't the end cut-off date for us continuing to look at what improvements can be made in our facilities.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Had the maintenance worker at the Rydges Hotel who has now tested positive had a previous test at any time in the previous five months?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: No he had not previously been tested. He had not been tested because he was not symptomatic which is what the order—the previous guidelines rather—would have required. I would also point the member to the fact that he was not a worker who had contact with any of the returnees in the facility. This is a maintenance worker who only ever entered unoccupied rooms that had been vacated by returnees.Hon Gerry Brownlee: If the House is to accept the description the member has just given suggesting that this particular worker did not have contact with people who were in isolated quarantine doesn't that make the situation even more scary for people trying to work out where this thing came from?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: What that does is demonstrate how tricky and insidious this virus is and why we have to be methodical and scrupulous in investigating how it is that someone has contracted a strain of the virus with a different genomic sequence that does not match with the current community cluster that is being experienced in Auckland. That is why we are working through it methodically and that is why we are committed to ensuring that we have robust procedures in place at our facilities."