Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 16 June 2004. Volume:618;Page:13629. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
4.  
JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade 
: Has he received any information that would cause him to review the Government’s policy of excluding nuclear-propelled ships from New Zealand waters? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade) 
: 
 No. The policies pursued by successive Governments since 1987 that have kept New Zealand nuclear-free have consistently been supported by an overwhelming majority of New Zealanders. I believe that New Zealand has benefited from its clean green image in a lot of different ways and I believe that it is respected for making its own decisions as an independent and a sovereign country rather than simply falling into line with what others may tell it to do as the ACT and National parties would obviously like us to do. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Is the Minister aware that Britain has banned its own nuclear-powered submarines from entering the Port of London and all other British commercial ports because of the safety risk posed by their nuclear reactors and what would he say to those who want to expose—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I said I was going to warn members only once this week. I say to Mr Shirley that he is very very lucky indeed. I will have the question stated again. All members have a democratic right as elected members to ask their questions of Ministers in silence and I will uphold that. I ask the member to please start again. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Is the Minister aware that Britain has banned its own nuclear-powered submarines from entering the Port of London and all other British commercial ports because of the safety risk posed by their nuclear reactors and what would he say to those who want to expose the citizens of Auckland and Wellington to such a risk? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I am aware that it is the policy of the United Kingdom Government to keep nuclear-powered ships out of commercial ports including the Port of London. I am further aware that the Australian Nuclear Safety Bureau does not allow nuclear ships into the Port of Sydney and I am also informed that the United States Navy has a policy of keeping nuclear-propelled ships out of the port in New York. Clearly if there were no risk none of those policies would exist. There is a risk and that risk has to be factored in. That is why we stay nuclear-free. There is no reason to have nuclear-propelled ships in our ports. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Is this Government’s continued ban on nuclear propulsion based on identified environmental risk; if not what is the reason for the continued ban? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The reasons that successive Governments have kept New Zealand nuclear-free are several. One of the factors is that there is a safety factor. One cannot rule out the question of an accident and what is more important one cannot rule out the prospect of a nuclear-powered ship being a prime target for a terrorist attack. The United States Navy with all its strength was not able to stop a terrorist attack on the USS 
 Cole 
. If there were a nuclear-powered ship in a harbour such as in Auckland and such an attack took place obviously the consequences would be catastrophic. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If as he says Australian ports are able to ban nuclear ships British ports are able to ban nuclear ships and indeed New York harbour itself bans nuclear ships what is the problem with the relationship that New Zealand currently has with the US with regard to our current legislation? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: There is absolutely no problem with regard to the legislation except the problem the National Party has in trying to make up its mind as to whether it will repeal it. Will it be gone by lunchtime or will it be left in place? What did Dr Brash say to the Americans when he was asked that question? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was asked a very very simple question— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will please be seated. There was a very simple answer: he said no. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I have not told you what my point of order is. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I know what the point is. There is not going to be one. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It had better be a point of order. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I ask you to consider whether Mr Goff gave an answer that is in any way consistent with his ministerial responsibility given that he spent the entire answer in giving what he considers to be a National Party position—and may I say a wrong and misguided position from him. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister did answer the question. That is not a point of order and I warn that you should listen to the answer. 
John Carter 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. May I ask you this question: if the answer that the Minister gave was no and you accepted that as the answer why was he allowed to continue on with other utterances and references that were not part of the question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister was elaborating. I thought he got to the point where I had heard enough and he stopped. 
Peter Brown 
: Is the Minister aware that the first nuclear-powered ship was an American merchant ship NS  
Savannah 
 and that it was dispensed with after a relatively short life because of safety concerns; and will the Minister confirm that safety concerns are far greater now since September 11? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I can confirm that the  
Savannah 
 was totally unable to get any commercial insurance cover. The Opposition parties believe in the market and the market believed that the risk was such that it would not insure that ship. That is probably why there are no merchant ships today that are nuclear-powered. The member is quite right that since September 11 the risk of terrorist attacks has brought a new dimension to the safety factors regarding nuclear-propelled vessels. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Is the Minister aware that the city of Portsmouth in the UK has stockpiled iodine tablets to coincide with nuclear-powered submarine visits to the Portsmouth naval base which are to be handed out to its citizens in the event of a nuclear accident; and what is his reaction to the prospect of Auckland schools being given piles of iodine tablets if we were to ever allow nuclear-powered ships to visit New Zealand? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Indeed I have a newspaper article from the United Kingdom dated 8 October 2003 that indicates that 160000 anti-cancer pills were stockpiled for the local population in case of an emergency on a nuclear submarine in the Portsmouth dockyard. That was probably taken as a sensible precaution. It indicates once again that while the risk may be low if there was to be an accident or an attack the consequences are huge. That is another good reason why we do not have nuclear ships in our harbours and why two-thirds of New Zealanders agree with the Government’s stance on that issue. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Has the Minister seen this pamphlet produced by the Southampton City Council and the United Kingdom Ministry of Defence and delivered to all residents within 2 kilometres of the Southampton naval base which instructs them that in the event of an accident with a nuclear-powered vessel they should stay inside not collect their children from school and take iodine tablets; and is such a nuclear accident emergency plan part of his vision of a clean green New Zealand? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The answers to those two questions are yes and no. I have a copy of that booklet. It is produced by the Southampton City Council. Interestingly it is paid for by the Ministry of Defence. While National and ACT MPs may say that there is no risk clearly the British Ministry of Defence acknowledges that risk and therefore takes precautions. Risk cannot be eliminated. That is the reason why we will not have ships here and why we stand by our policy as do the Greens in support of that policy. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: I seek leave to table a Xerox copy of the booklet  
Radiation Emergency in the Port of Southampton 
:  
What to do if you live nearby. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.