Bennett Paula: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Bennett Paula: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:643;Page:12939] 
12.  
PAULA BENNETT (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: How many complaints has the Ministry of Education received about creches in gyms swimming pools and Sunday schools? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Between January and October this year 18 approaches were made to the ministry seeking information about individual services. Creches at pools gyms and Sunday schools have had to be licensed since 1989. Like all early childhood facilities creches at pools and gyms have to keep children safe. They need to have safe facilities and they need to have adequately qualified police-checked staff to supervise children. 
Paula Bennett 
: How many children can gather in one place under the supervision of an adult before such adults are subject to officials telling them that they have to be fully licensed or close their babysitting service? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: This Government is concerned about the welfare of children. The member has on a number of occasions in the past raised the question of what happens at drop-off centres—for example at gyms or swimming pools. We are looking at that situation at the moment to see whether we can get some flexibility in the regulations. But I remind the House again that these regulations have been in place since 1989. The National Government in its 9 years in office did not change them. We are looking at whether we can give some flexibility but ultimately we want children to be in a safe environment. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The level of noise is rising again. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to table a statement from a senior retired official from the Ministry of Education that in administering these regulations from 1989 to 2000 he applied common sense— 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Paula Bennett 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My question was actually quite specific and quite easy. It asked how many children could gather. It was about the regulations. The Minister did not address that at all in his answer. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think the Minister addressed it. As the member knows no member can require a specific yes or no answer. 
Hon Marian Hobbs 
: What steps has the Government taken to lower the cost of quality early childhood education for families? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Some very significant steps. The Labour-led Government has introduced the historic visionary successful and popular 20 free hours education policy. Just 4 months since it was launched in July nearly 77000 3 and 4-year-olds in teacher-led centres are now benefiting from the free hours. That is tens of thousands of New Zealand families who save up to $4500 a year per child all of whom will lose those savings if Paula Bennett gets her way and ends this popular and successful policy. 
Paula Bennett 
: Under regulation how many children can gather in one place under the supervision of an adult before such adults are subject to officials telling them that they have to be fully licensed or close their babysitting service—how many children?  
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Since 1989 if people who have children left under their supervision are not the parents or licensed caregivers they need a licence. We are working through a process to give us a little bit of flexibility for creches at gyms saunas and other such places that people go to. 
Hon Marian Hobbs 
: Do I understand from that flexibility that the rules for a creche at a gym might not be identical to those for a full-time creche? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Currently they are. We are looking for some flexibility in that. 
Paula Bennett 
: Is it now the law that a Sunday school must register as a fully licensed early childhood education centre or be closed down like the 10 gym creches that have already been closed recently? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: That has certainly been the law since 1989. We are reviewing it. 
Paula Bennett 
: Is not the difference that National did not then go around instructing bureaucrats to shut down babysitting services and trusted that parents actually knew best; how many more will the Minister close? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: What a curious new policy this is from National members: to ignore the law because they think it is bad. Well we actually believe in fixing it up. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You are about to call my colleague for what I think is the final supplementary question. I draw your attention again to the Government’s habit of avoiding direct questions so that the Opposition has to use up supplementary questions to try to get an answer. The Minister has already been asked twice how many children trigger the regulations that enable his bureaucrats to shut down Sunday school creche and gym babysitting centres and he has twice refused to answer that question. Either he does not know which may be the case because he is a new Minister or he just does not want to say that it is three—that might be the case. Certainly it is outside the conventions of the House for him to continue to refuse to answer a direct question until all the supplementary questions are used up. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I was avoiding giving a number because I wanted it confirmed. I have just had it confirmed; it is three. 
Paula Bennett 
: Is it not true that Sunday schools are under threat of closure because the Minister is waiting on a review which started in the year 2003 and has been running for 5 years when he could simply apply common sense and use his ministerial discretion to exempt them under the Education Act—section 316(1)(b) for his information? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: It is curious is it not that that question has come from a member whose Government had the ability to do that for 9 years but did not. We have been working through this complex area of early childhood education and I can assure the member that it will be resolved by next year.