Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:636;Page:6917] 
4.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues 
: Does he agree with Victoria University economics senior lecturer Dr Geoff Bertram that “New Zealand’s clean and green image is largely an illusion and our growing usage of fossil fuels is becoming problematic” and that “We’re going to be way way up in our carbon dioxide emissions and our methane emissions relative to 1990—we’re miles in breach of our Kyoto undertakings.” as reported on National Radio this morning? 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues) 
: 
 No. Our environment is cleaner and greener than that of most overseas countries. Seventy percent of our electricity already comes from renewable sources. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How can the Minister tell the House that 70 percent of our power is produced from renewable sources when official statistics released yesterday by the department state that the figure was 57 percent the figure was 66 percent when he came to Government and has declined in every single year since then and next year’s new generation is scheduled to be 80 percent thermal energy so the figures will only get worse; and how can those figures possibly meet Labour’s commitment when it came into Government in 1990 to lift New Zealand’s use of renewable energy? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: The exact proportion year to year varies according to how much rain we have in our hydro catchments. In terms of new renewables it is abundantly clear that the Government’s projects to reduce emissions have brought forward wind power development by 5 to 10 years. 
Dr Ashraf Choudhary 
: Has the Minister received any recent reports about coal-fired power emissions and climate change policy? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Yesterday I had a question in the House asserting that the Government had been promoting thermal generation and implying that National had opposed it. I cannot reconcile that position with an earlier report from National’s former energy spokesperson that stated that National “welcomes the new … coal-fired Marsden B” and that “The development of such generation … is exactly what New Zealand needs …”. Indeed he even went so far as to say: “The Government must ensure that it doesn’t let the RMA sink this desperately needed piece of generation.”—another National Party flip-flop. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why did the Prime Minister say yesterday in response to questions from John Key on electricity—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please proceed. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I will start again seeing that Labour is very excited about it because I think we deserve an answer on this. Why did the Prime Minister say yesterday in response to questions from John Key on electricity: “all the major projects coming on stream are renewable projects.” when the Minister’s own ministry identifies 570 megawatts of new generation coming on stream next year of which 410 megawatts or 80 percent will be non-renewable—notably Genesis Energy’s ep3 at Huntly and Mighty River Power’s Southdown gas extension? Who is telling the truth: his ministry or the Prime Minister? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I am sure that the Prime Minister shares my confidence that following the release of the draft New Zealand Energy Strategy the vast majority of new generation capacity will be renewable. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Does the Minister agree that our high and growing use of fossil fuels is largely because carbon pollution is free and would it not be fairer to those who will pay for this—taxpayers picking up the bill in 2012; families who have invested in insulation solar water heating and more efficient cars; and firms using wood waste to replace coal—to put an economy-wide price on carbon pollution now? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I think the price of carbon is one of the relevant determinants of its usage. It has been difficult to pass legislation in this Parliament to impose a price on carbon. Indeed the same previous spokesperson from National in a speech in August 2004 said that he was completely opposed to any form of carbon pricing on coal introduced by this Government and would reverse it. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why did the Minister yesterday blame the drop in the proportion of electricity generation from renewable sources on economic growth and the weather when it was his Government’s decision to build a new oil-fired power station at Whirinaki to underwrite the massive ep3 thermal station at Huntly and to support the application by State-owned enterprise Mighty River Power for a 320-megawatt coal station and at the same time to block and delay renewable energy projects like Project Aqua and the Dobson scheme; and does the Minister accept that the downward trend in renewables is a direct consequence of his Government’s decision to build more thermal energy stations and block new renewables? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: For a start I did not say that electricity proportions have decreased because of economic growth. I said that electricity usage— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Yes you did. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: No I said that electricity usage has increased because of economic growth which is a slightly different statement. In terms of the Dobson scheme as the Hon Chris Carter referred to yesterday we did let Resource Management Act processes and Conservation Act processes take their course there. The outcome is that there is likely to be a proposal for the Arnold River as a replacement for the Dobson scheme. It will produce not dissimilar amounts of power with far less environmental effect. 
Peter Brown 
: Will the Minister put the issue in perspective and advise how our electricity generated from coal as a percentage of total generation compares with that of Australia the USA and China; and does he share New Zealand First’s opinion that the National Party appears to be advocating albeit slowly the closure of the Huntly coal-fired power station? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I can advise that the proportion of New Zealand’s electricity generation that comes from coal is far lower than is the case for Australia or the United States. That is a very good thing that we ought to be proud of. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why should New Zealanders have any confidence that his Government will put in place a programme to ensure New Zealand meets its Kyoto targets in the year we have left before the agreement comes into effect when after 7 years of this Government being in office experts conclude that we are miles in breach and do not have a bolter’s show of achieving the undertakings? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: New Zealand’s commitment under the Kyoto Protocol is to have sufficient Kyoto-compliant emission units and we will achieve that. Emission units can be obtained through the removal of carbon dioxide via forest sinks or through investments via the Kyoto flexibility mechanisms. The member has to get up to date as to what the mechanisms under Kyoto are if he is to participate in a meaningful way in these discussions. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Can the Minister confirm to the—[ 
Interruption 
] Oh get a life Clayton! 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please continue with the question. And order please! 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Can the Minister please confirm that Treasury has advised that there is no way that New Zealand can meet its Kyoto undertakings except by having to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of hard-earned taxpayers’ money on buying credits off countries like Russia; and given his last answer is he confirming that that is exactly the Government’s intention and that New Zealand taxpayers will have to pay for Pete Hodgson’s bungle over Kyoto? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: No I cannot confirm that. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: I seek leave of the House to table a very interesting press release last Saturday from Mr Bob Field the head of Toyota New Zealand in which he calls for a price on carbon across the economy as quickly as possible. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is a press release dated 18 August 2004 in which a former National Party energy spokesman welcomed the proposed Mighty River Power Marsden B coal station. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I seek leave to table a speech of 30 August 2004 in which the same former energy spokesman pointed out that if the Government did introduce a price on carbon in respect of thermal energy the National Party would oppose and indeed reverse it. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to table the official advice from the Ministry of Economic Development that 80 percent of the new generation to come on stream next year will actually be—contrary to the Prime Minister’s assertion that all of it will be renewable—unrenewable. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.