Pillay Lynne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Pillay Lynne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:649;Page:17840] 
3.  
LYNNE PILLAY (Labour—Waitakere) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: What progress has the Government made on its review of the current system for regulating the private security industry? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence) 
on behalf of the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: Work is currently under way on the preparation of a private security personnel and private investigators bill. This bill updates the Private Investigators and Security Guards Act 1974. 
Lynne Pillay 
: Has the Associate Minister seen any reports on why it is necessary to enhance the regulation of private security personnel and private investigators? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: On behalf of the Associate Minister yes I have seen some reports that cause concern. For example I have seen reports from a private investigator Mr Wayne Idour who admitted that the Exclusive Brethren had paid him to spy on Labour MPs to help the National Party at the last election. Having used that as an example I have to say that not all reports I have seen have been substantiated and would stand up to that sort of scrutiny. One report is from a Mr John Key and it suggests that secret recordings at the National Party conference had been doctored. Given that the person who had been taped a Mr Bill English actually confessed to and apologised for what he had said in the conversation about Mr Key about selling Kiwibank and about cutting Working for Families that sort of allegation clearly would not stand up to scrutiny. 
Lynne Pillay 
: Will the bill provide for a complaints process? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Yes. However with any complaints process it is important that those making the allegations actually have the evidence to back them up. Last night on  
Close Up 
 John Key admitted that he had absolutely no evidence for his claims that the Labour Party was responsible for the secret recordings. Clearly the claims were without substance and simply an invention to distract attention from the fact that if the individuals taped were telling the truth to National Party delegates then the National Party has been lying to the public. As Guyon Espiner of Television New Zealand said the other night Mr English has been caught out telling the truth. 
Lynne Pillay 
: Has the Minister seen any reports relating to private investigator techniques for collecting documentary information? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Yes. From time to time concerns have been expressed about private investigators going through people’s rubbish. I have for example seen reports from Mr John Key who has been sending the media photos of his rubbish strewn across the street claiming that somebody has been going through it. On investigation however it would seem that this was paranoia. I have pictures for the House which I will seek leave to table. Here is the evidence of the crime scene. Here is the evidence of the prime suspect a small dog—members can see that it is wearing a hoodie. That is probably why it is the prime suspect. Lastly I have a picture of the sleuth—a bloodhound—that we are putting on the trail to try to find the culprit. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Does the Labour Government condone the covert recording of conversations such as those that have been played in the media over the last few days or does it believe that it is inappropriate and should not form part of the coming campaign? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The Labour Party does not condone dirty tricks in politics. Let me quote from Mike Hosking last night—Gerry Brownlee should listen to this. Mr Hosking asked Mr Key: “But what’s worse? Running an entrapment campaign …” by a person who apparently has no affiliation to any political party “or actually being busted saying something you didn’t want the public to know?”. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister may have substantial ambitions but at the moment he has no responsibility for television interviews. 
Hon Annette King 
: I recall in this House that that member asked many questions about Mike Williams whom I had no responsibility for yet he thought it was his right to ask them. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: If I might just finish the answer to my question. What is clearly interesting is this quote from Mr English who just raised the point of order. He said that Mike Williams should resign or be sacked—“Mike Williams has been caught red-handed saying one thing behind closed doors and another thing to the public.” I say to Mr English that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have not ruled on the first point of order. Is it a different one or the same one? 
Hon Bill English 
: It is a different one. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well I will rule on the first one. Listening to the context of the question it seemed to me that the answer was in order. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Mike Williams was filmed by a TV crew and he was advocating breaking the law. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order; that is a point of debate. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Can the Minister compare and contrast the situation in respect of Mr Mike Williams where a covert recording took place at the Labour Party conference but Mr Williams’ greatest error was unwisely suggesting the Government should put out all the facts into the public arena whereas Mr English’s offence was failing to put out the facts into the public arena? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I can absolutely confirm that. What Mike Williams was not guilty of was saying one thing to the Labour Party conference and the opposite thing to the public. Mr Williams most certainly was not guilty of lying to the public like the National Party has continuously done. 
Hon Mark Burton 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I find myself in the unique situation of not being able to hear my colleague the Hon Phil Goff. The volume from the rabble opposite is just ridiculous. We cannot hear the answers. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The volume at which members are expressing themselves is making it difficult for everyone to hear. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I seek leave to table the evidence surrounding the crime committed on Mr Key’s rubbish. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House.