Ferris Tākuta; Goldsmith PaulTĀKUTA FERRIS (Te Pāti Māori—Te Tai Tonga): Kia ora tēnā koe e te Pika. I have a few reflections and bits of clarity for the Minister of Justice to consider. One is around the power of association and public perception because whenever I hear the gangs legislation and the gangs kōrero brought up by the Government we're always talking about the Mongrel Mob or Black Power which are naturally gangs that are associated with high Māori membership. But it doesn't really take into account that the majority of gangs in this country are actually gangs that have no Māori association with them at all. In fact there's a long list—probably the longest list of gangs or that sort of crowd is the outlaw motorcycle groups. So when are going to hear about them and when are we going to go after their patches? You see? The perception is the thing that I'm talking about—how this House presents its case or its ideas around getting tough on gangs to the public. I think we could do a lot better. It unfortunately spills out of both sides of this House.Whenever we hear about the gangs we always hearing about a gang tangi—wanting to disrupt a gang tangi—or worrying about the gang whānau. You know the subtle insinuations that this is all a conversation about Māori and Māori being the problem of gangs in this country—it really needs a little bit of balancing out I think.If the Minister is really keen on what the Government does in terms of how we really address the problem—because this is dropping the hammer on them no doubt about it—if we really want to see gangs gone then we have to address the intergenerational nature of gangs in this country. And address things like my mate Tamatha over here keeps bringing up like poverty lack of opportunity economic marginalisation and all of those things. I talked about the Māori Battalion the other night and economic marginalisation was born for Māori right there back in 1950. So how are we going to address those things? That's what I want to know.I appreciate all of the intricacies of the bill and all of its bits and pieces but how do we get over the national problem—yes—but also a level of stigmatisation of te iwi Māori that shouldn't be acceptable and we should do better.Less than 0.5 percent of the Māori population are involved in gang activity. It's a minuscule amount. Yet anyone listening to this conversation through the media would think that half of them were in a gang. So kia kaha—kia kaha—let's do better in that regard.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice): Well I agree with many of the sentiments that the previous speaker Tākuta Ferris made. Government Ministers have been very careful not to imply at all that gang membership and gang intimidation across the country is intimately linked with Māori. Indeed I've pushed back very hard against many of the assumptions in many of the papers that I've received actually from the Ministry of Justice saying that this will disproportionately affect Māori and we shouldn't do it or we should consider that in the context of the Treaty. The point I've made is that the vast majority of Māori are not involved in gangs but it is true that Māori are more likely to be victims of crime than New Zealanders and so like everybody in New Zealand Māori have a great stake in restoring law and order and dealing effectively with the scourge that is gangs in our community. Of course not all gang members are Māori and of course this legislation is focused on all gang members no matter what their ethnicity. So I absolutely agree with that.I also agree—also—that we have to deal with the broader social challenges that we face. That indeed is the purpose of much of the Government's legislation and work. If you wanted to see where the evidence for that is I point towards the Budget which is very much focused on restoring a growth plan dealing with the cost of living challenges that many families across this nation deal with. One of the drivers of that of course has been the rapid rise of the cost of living and inflation and the Government can have a contribution to that by spending very unwisely. That's why we've tightened up our spending: so as to reduce inflation so as to reduce interest rates so as to take pressure of houses. That's why we're very much focused on educational achievement. That's why we're very much focused on a more effective housing policy.I can go on at great length about that. There are many things that I think we can agree on as part of issues that we as a country need to address and I'd encourage that member and his party to support some of the work that we're doing to make progress in that area. So I very much agree with many of the sentiments expressed there.