Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:629;Page:1877] 
4.  
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
 to the  
Minister of Labour 
: My question is to the Minister of Labour—who is not here I note—and asks: Will the Government reconsider its rejection of the Small Business Advisory Group recommendation to introduce probation periods for new employees now that the Employment Relations (Probationary Employment) Amendment Bill has been referred to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee; if not why not? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Before I call the Minister I just remind members to please just ask the questions without interpretation. 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Commerce) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Labour 
: No because the Employment Relations Act provides a framework to promote productive employment relationships and that already contains provisions to enable parties to enter into agreements that contain probationary periods. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Why is the Government rejecting the view of the OECD which is clearly set out in its 2004 report that New Zealand should introduce probation periods given that it stated New Zealand was virtually alone in not having probation periods? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: Because the OECD economic survey of New Zealand taken in 2005 said that New Zealand was one of the most dynamic and flexible business environments in which to do business. We would not want to upset that. 
Darien Fenton 
: What would be the consequences of repealing section 67 the current probationary provision of the Employment Relations Act and replacing it with a provision that denied all Employment Relations Act rights and obligations during the first 90 days of employment? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The consequences would be completely counter to the objectives of the Employment Relations Act principle of good faith which involves building mutual trust confidence and fair dealings right from the outset of the employment relationship. 
Peter Brown 
: Has the Minister taken on board New Zealand First’s concerns for casualised employees and does she share those concerns; if so will she give this House an assurance that she will support making such amendments to the Employment Relations (Probationary Employment) Amendment Bill in order to give casualised employees protection; if not why not? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: My recollection of the concerns that have been raised by New Zealand First is that they would be exacerbated by the passage of the bill not made better. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Why does the Government not follow the example of Tony Blair’s Labour Government in the United Kingdom which reformed its industrial law in 1999 and has probation periods of 12 months as a key part of its employment law—a Labour Government? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: Prior to coming down to the House I looked at the relevant website from the UK and identified that in fact there have been significant increases in other forms of action being taken by those who are denied access to the employment tribunal. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Why does the Government keep insisting that probation periods are some kind of Dickensian throwback when every modern 21st century economy has probation periods as a key part of their industrial law? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: If the member would like to look at the employment agreement builder which the Department of Labour has on its website he will find that there is a section that provides for periods of probation to be agreed between an employer and an employee. The statement in that particular clause reads: “The Employer will provide guidance and feedback to the Employee during this probation period.” That is what is important and that is what is missing from that member’s approach. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Why does the Government keep insisting that it knows the right approach when every business organisation including Business New Zealand in its recent publication on skills stresses that probation periods are a key requirement for small businesses to take the chance to employ new and unskilled workers? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The Employment Relations Act operates on the basis that employers treat all employees in a procedurally fair way and that they must have substantive grounds for dismissal that are related to the agreed trial standards or to misconduct. The fact that an employee has the right to be treated in a procedurally fair way in all aspects of work should be independent of the length of their service their salary level or their seniority. 
Darien Fenton 
: What initiatives is the Government working on to assist employers and employees to resolve their work-related problems? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The Department of Labour has improved access to information for example the comprehensive brochure on employers’ guide to employment relations which was completed with assistance and input from the Small Business Advisory Group. I understand from the Minister for Small Business that the Government received a 10 out of 10 rating on this recommendation. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Why then does the Government keep rejecting out of hand the concerns of the Small Business Advisory Group who stressed that a 90-day probation period was a critical issue for small businesses to grow the employment in their sector? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The Minister for Small Business has advised me that she has met with the Small Business Advisory Group and discussed this matter with them.