Webb DuncanDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Tēnā koe Mr Speaker. This is a very special day not only because Mr Zuckerberg tells me it's Mr Speaker's birthday but also—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Adrian Rurawhe): Don't bring me into the debate!Dr DUNCAN WEBB: —because we are taking another step on the long journey to clean up our waterways and protect our conservation estates. For too long we have stood by whilst our waterways have been degraded. Look I have no doubt that many people do enjoy sitting on a riverbank with a six-pack or a sunshade and some food and spend their days pulling indigenous fish out of our waterways. There was a time where perhaps that was OK because they could pull them out a kerosene tin at a time but those days are gone or at least they're gone in some places.Look this legislation is based on science and it beggars belief that the National Party members have stood up and said there's no evidence.Hon Peeni Henare: Running roughshod.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Running roughshod like an unshod horse—roughshod. And that is absolutely appalling. They only have to google indigenous fish in New Zealand" to come up with a comprehensive study which lists four of these species as not endangered but on the threatened with extinction list. Now you can dismiss that. You can say "I'm sorry I don't believe a scientific paper."; you can do that along with the anti-vaxxers and the rest of them out here. But I tell you what: I listen to scientists and when they tell me we've got a problem we as a Government have a duty to take action—and that's what we're doing.Now Miss Dowie may well be able to tramp into Doubtful Sound with her whitebait net and get the whitebait out of the pristine rivers there. Good luck to her. I don't think the Minister of Conservation has it in her sights to ban whitebaiting on that particular catchment. But there are other catchments which are desperately ill. They are languishing and they need protection and that is what this is going to do.These are truly unique fish indigenous fish part of—here's an irony for you. Did you know that if you're walking through a national park the lichen on the tree is more protected than the whitebait in the river? You can't scratch the lichen off the tree. That would be in breach of the Conservation Act but you can take the indigenous fish out of the stream. How about that? That makes absolutely no sense. So all we are doing is saying that when we are within a conservation area it's all protected; not everything except our whitebait fritters. So this is just about sustainability. You know the huge hoo-ha as if the sky is going to fall. But what this is simply doing is giving the Minister and the Director-General of Conservation some powers to manage this fishery so that it is sustainable. It's no good continually fishing it to extinction till it disappears. So here we have a simple bill saying we can take some steps. And look if a particular catchment is at such a threat that we need to pause whitebaiting in it for a while then let's do that. But let's not shout "Ban" from the rooftops as if the whole of New Zealand has been told to go home and pack up their whitebait nets and their gumboots because it's simply not true. It's scaremongering it's inaccurate and it shouldn't be said.In so far as there are some protections which may touch on private property it's absolutely essential because we know the most important area is the spawning grounds and sometimes those spawning grounds are on private property. It may well be that you don't want someone putting a drainage ditch through the middle of a paddock where the stream in the middle of that paddock is in fact a very important spawning ground. So it's absolutely appropriate that the director-general on reasonable grounds can say—Angie Warren-Clark: Say that again.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: —on reasonable grounds can say "I believe that an important part of this catchment is important for conservation important for the preservation of this species of indigenous fish and it is not to be tampered with." There was this whole suggestion on the other side of the House earlier in the debate on this bill that this was carte blanche; that this was outside or above the law. And I know for a fact that the other side have heard of judicial review have heard of the High Court have heard of the fact that if a Government official or a Minister acts outside their powers or in an unreasonable or irrational way they are subject to the courts. So don't pretend. Don't pretend that this isn't the case. Don't suggest that there is no recourse. Don't suggest that this is an unfettered power because it's entirely inappropriate.The other thing that this bill does—and you know the Minister has shown the wisdom of Solomon or perhaps Sheba in absolutely balancing the interests of sports fishing because we know sports fish—trout largely trout; salmon as well—are introduced species and we know that they can have an adverse effect on indigenous fish. They are in many cases predator fish: they eat smaller fish and other insects and what have you. So it is appropriate that there is a relationship between the indigenous fish management plan and the sports fish management plan. Now there was some difficulty some tensions about the relationship between those two plans and the Minister has said that they sit together—one is not more important or less important than the other but they need to take each other into account.So this bill is not some world-changing bill. It is not going to change the entire culture of New Zealand. We'll still be able to effectively manage a sustainable fishery. People will still be able to enjoy their whitebait and everything that goes along with it including those important cultural aspects although I understand catching whitebait's often not part of the activity but in any event what it does is it strikes that balance. It's a step that should have been taken long ago. It's part of a long-term plan of this Government to tidy up our waterways protect our environment for the long term not just for you and me not just for our children but for our children and our children's children as well. I'm very proud to be supporting this bill. This Minister's done a great job and I commend this bill to the House."