Smith NickHon Dr NICK SMITH (National): I want to again challenge the Minister Priyanca Radhakrishnan to address a serious issue that goes to the heart of our democracy because a democracy is about electing representatives as to this Parliament and to this council and it also involves the use of referenda and that's what the heart of this section 9 in our Local Electoral Act covers.And here's the principle: where we are making decisions about how we are elected actually they should be the decisions that we must have referenda on. That is widely accepted in the international literature about good democracies. So for instance I strongly believe that if we want to change the electoral system of this Parliament it should go to referenda. If we want to change to STV if we want to move to a four-year term that should not be for us in here to decide. That should be a decision for the electors not the elected.Now when it comes to councils I have actually the view that if the council's going to make a decision about whether it has a library or the council's going to make a decision about whether it paints the office building red or if the council's going to make a decision about whether it does this big sewage upgrade or not I'm of a view that that's what you elect people to make decisions for. But when you're making a decision to change the way in which you are elected they are the decisions which should go back to referenda and to electors. And what makes this section so bizarre is it does exactly the opposite of what the literature says about how a good democracy works. What is says is you can have a referendum and a binding one over whether you paint the office red or not. You can have a referendum—a binding one—on whether you have a tree or not. You can have a binding referendum on whether you build the sewage scheme or not. The only thing that we are specifically excluding a council to be able to decide to have a binding referendum under this section is on the issue of whether you are going to divide your constituencies up on the ethnic lines of creating Māori wards.And so I again ask the Minister to answer the simple question: why in section 9 do we empower every one of our 85 councils to be able to have a referendum on anything they wish—Christopher Luxon: Including general wards.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: General wards—that's right. I want to point out that my colleague—our spokesperson on local government Chris Luxon—says that if a council wants to have a binding referendum on creating a general ward it is perfectly entitled to do so. And that just further exposes the anomaly of this provision which the Minister needs to address and that is why in this clause is the only thing—the only thing in the whole wide world that the council is specifically banned prohibited from having a poll on is the issue of whether they have a Māori ward? It is contrary to all the literature about what things are appropriate for referenda. The literature academically says actually it's on the issues of how you are elected in which parliamentarians and councillors have a conflict of interest—they are the issues that you most should have a referendum on in a good democracy. So why does this clause do the opposite?So again I challenge the Minister: please answer the question. It goes to the core of clause 5 in this bill. Why are we saying to councils that you can have a binding referendum on anything you like in your community? The only thing that we in the law are going to make illegal is a binding referendum on a Māori ward. I have never struck such a biased unusual—almost sticks out like dogs' legs—provision—Hon Members: Dogs' legs?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: No I don't think I'll go there. I think on the good advice of the Māori Party I'm getting into terrible territory. But what I do say is this provision sticks out as incredibly odd. It is very unusual to say: councils you can have a binding referendum on absolutely anything you like except a question of a Māori ward. That is bad law and that is why I simply challenge the Minister to please explain.