SpeechHon RON MARK (Minister of Defence): Thank you Mr Chair. It is with some sadness that I have prised myself away from my desk and put my work aside to come down to the Chamber to make a contribution because I have never ever heard and I never ever expected to hear from the Hon Alfred Ngaro such a sanctimonious condescending contribution in my entire time in this House and I've been here for a lot longer than that member has. It strikes me as somewhat strange having listened to the wonderful contribution by Darroch Ball on behalf of New Zealand First that suddenly the party that stands for principles—I mean the same party that takes donations from the Communist Party. Many of these members that are here preaching their principles are only here because of donations from the People's Liberation Army—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Order! Hon RON MARK: —but I'm saying on principles—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Ah—Hon RON MARK: Thank you Mr Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): No. Order! No. Steer clear of that—OK? We are debating clauses 1 and 2 a very narrow debate. It's got nothing to do with donations. Title and commencement and everything around it—that's it. Hon RON MARK: Thank you Mr Chair. The contribution on the Supplementary Order Paper and the specific questioning and the challenging that's come back on New Zealand First's position that we would prefer and want to see a referendum—that is not something new. That has been signalled in New Zealand First's manifesto for a long time. In fact I think we discussed it in the coalition negotiations with the National Party who didn't seem to have a problem with it then.But I'm going to say let's deal with this question of who has the right to have the final say. A hundred and twenty people sit in this Chamber many of whom will not be here after 20 September. In fact most MPs who come here do one—one term. In fact it was the Hon Trevor Mallard who told me when I was a new MP being inducted of that very fact—one term. So Mr Alfred Ngaro would say that 4.5 million people should be subjected to the decisions made by a bunch of one-term MPs on such a serious matter of conscience.This is a serious matter of conscience to the nation Mr Alfred Ngaro. It is not your preserve to stand up and tell all of New Zealand that you are right and they are wrong. Every New Zealander of voting age has a right to have a say on this matter. We would go so far as to say there is no longer—for all of those National Party MPs I've heard touting the benefits of electronic voting it totally undermines one's argument because if one can have electronic voting for a general election then what is wrong with giving the people of New Zealand a say on conscience matters? Why should it remain the privilege of 120 New Zealanders to determine this once and for all?Let me be clear about this. I predict—and Mr Alfred Ngaro has rolled out his crystal ball and made a clairvoyant sort of prediction about what New Zealand First might or might not do if this Supplementary Order Paper falls over. Watch and see Mr Alfred Ngaro. Don't throw your silly little challenges around pontificating and beating one's chest and playing Mr Righteous Mr Sanctimonious in this Chamber because it didn't cut it on television.Let me assure that member for everybody watching it it didn't cut it because most New Zealanders say Why should we be excluded from the democratic process?" Yes 30000 people have had their say—that's good democracy in action—but there's another 4.5 million out there Mr Ngaro. Every one of those people every one of those families who has strong feelings on both sides of this argument has a right to have a say. If anyone denies those New Zealanders of that right well I guess they'll answer for it on 19 September won't they Mr Ngaro?"