Upston Louise; Sepuloni CarmelHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō): Thank you Madam Chair. I was very careful at the start of my address that I talked very deliberately about job seekers Minister. So it would be helpful if you could be clear about what I've asked.I want to move to emergency housing. Over a million dollars a day is going into motels which are clearly no place to raise children—4500 children are currently living in motels. We've seen the average stay in a motel now is 14.7 weeks. So I want to ask a series of questions Minister.The first is: given the length of time that individuals and families are now living in motels why has there not been any effort to secure better rates for taxpayers for the moteliers when they would be empty anyway? And the Minister accepted this point the last time she was before the select committee. So that is my first question. What work is now under way given that it hadn't been previously to secure better rates so that there is better value for money out of people who unfortunately are living in motels for longer?The second is: what is the Minister's plan and deadline for not putting children in motels?And my third is: looking at examples from places like Rotorua where people who live in the community and have done for years are now being driven out of their own houses because they do not feel safe in areas like Fenton Street—tourists and visitors will no longer go to Rotorua because of the motels and the volume of activity. And in other communities complaints of gang violence stabbings next to a motel that was used by the Ministry of Social Development that is next door to an educational facility when on multiple occasions concerns have been raised about the risks to the community who live next to these motels—when will the Minister wake up and take action to protect the community from what is occurring in these motels and protect the 4500 children when it is clearly no place to grow up?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): I'm awake; it's just a pity that between 2008 and 2017 we had a Government who were asleep at the wheel. So with regards to the first comment made by that member the Hon Louise Upston about the job seeker benefit and her being specific I was as well. That member might not know but there is job seekers work ready" and there is job seekers "health and disability". So I think that's an important thing to know about.Also with respect to emergency accommodation no one wants to see people in emergency accommodation; no one wants to see children in emergency accommodation. We were landed with this when we became Government this policy because of the lack of housing and the lack of investment in housing across the country that had endured—under the previous Government again. We have committed to a public housing programme and that is the most important part of it—is actually building the houses that these families need. Unfortunately we haven't been able to build all of the ones that we need all at once; however that programme is on track and those houses continue to be built. And we have changed from selling off State housing to ensuring that we are increasing the stock for the families that need them here as well as changing a number of other settings across housing to ensure that we can meet the demand from New Zealanders who need housing.Rotorua was used as an example earlier with respect to emergency housing. It has been very constructive working with iwi working with social services working with other Government agencies and with council with regards to the plan that we came up with there. We have indicated that that is what we want to look to do moving forward—initiatives like that that are geographically place-based initiatives that work for the community in which they're working for. And so in that particular instance obviously we worked together to look at ways in which we could contract motel accommodation in a way that could cohort particular groups especially prioritising families with children. And so that certainly has been a focus.We've also put case management in place around those that are in emergency accommodation and measures and supports that didn't exist when we inherited that policy by the previous Government. There were no supports. It was a bit of knee-jerk reaction because of the fact that publicly it had come out that there were so many New Zealand families sadly sleeping in cars and so they had introduced a policy without the supports around to be actually able to get in there and provide the fulsome holistic types of support that those families and children needed. And so we're in a position where we've been able to do that. I think we'll see more of that moving forward. As I've indicated Rotorua was just first off the mark with regard to that place-based focus but there's more to do.Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō): Thank you Madam Chair. Just in terms of perspective your department is overseeing $300 million a year—six times more than when you came into office—with nearly 30000 on the social housing register and I'd say 4500 children in motels. So it is unacceptable after four years to say—when this situation has clearly got worse you have to accept some responsibility for the dire situation of those families who are stuck in motels and for the community who live around them. So I ask again what has the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) done to secure better rates for the motels it is using for longer? I want to give you an example from a social service provider that I met with not so long ago who now refuses because it is so unsafe because of the threats and intimidation and the gang presence at these motels—and they're a hardened social service provider. You know they're not new to this game. They will no longer deliver food parcels and services directly to the motel units because it is too unsafe for their staff. So what is MSD doing to improve the security of those who are living in—unfortunately—these motels who are providing services to some of the vulnerable people who live there and the community who have to put up with it? The situation is just getting worse. Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Thank you Madam Chair. I might just go back to a question from the ACT Party on the establishment of the Ministry for Disabled People. In Budget 2021 we did indicate I think it was $73 million towards systems transformation. There is also of course going to be that process of transitioning the disability support services out of the Ministry of Health and into the new ministry and so with that will come the appropriation of funding that previously would have existed within Health. I think the initial numbers that I got for setting up and running a ministry for disabled people was $73 million over—no I think it was $85 million over the forecast period. So we can check that and I'll come back to you if that's wrong. With regard to emergency accommodation going back to that question—OK. We can talk about the fact that as I've said to the member Louise Upston a number of times the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) doesn't actually have the legislative power to contract for emergency accommodation. It is when someone comes in and is homeless and needs urgent emergency housing then they are eligible for a grant that will go to an accommodation provider who is willing to provide that emergency accommodation support. In some parts of New Zealand it isn't as difficult to find emergency accommodation options. In some parts it's very hard because they don't have the level of options that we need and in some parts of New Zealand we don't actually have too much of an issue—I think Christchurch is a good example and Canterbury—with respect to emergency housing. We haven't seen the numbers inflated like we have in other parts of the country. With Canterbury it's really clear. There's been a housing build under way post-earthquake and so that means that they don't experience that and then we've got regions where it is an issue. On top of MSD working to get people into emergency accommodation they're also—as I've said—working with providers as is the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development to ensure that those people have the support that they need. We've put things in place such as housing products that didn't exist when we came into Government and things like work brokers. Many of our whānau find it difficult to get into private rentals. It can be because of the number of children that they have because of landlords not wanting to take on large families. It can be because of things like credit ratings and perhaps they're not the preferred person. So there are a range of housing supports that are needed here that extend beyond emergency accommodation and I feel very confident that our Government is taking a very holistic approach to what is needed. But as I said earlier the hardship and need that we inherited is something that we continue to address but unfortunately there was just such a high level of neglect under the previous National Government for nine years that we're still in a situation where we're still having to clean up their mess."