Bridges SimonHon SIMON BRIDGES (National—Tauranga): One of the I think significant things about any law that comes through this Parliament is that we want to have a sense that actually there has been in the absence of Ministers competently looking at the issues a good not just process but substantive analysis by the Government departments and agencies concerned. And I want to ask the Minister a specific I think straight question that hasn't been addressed so far in the committee in relation to the commercial leases aspect of this. But I just want to flesh out the point that I made: in good laws certainly the path that I'm familiar with as a former Government Minister there would be a series of you might call them hoops" but processes to go through regulatory impact statements Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) reports various memoranda legal reports about the necessity the desirability of a law change the scale of the issue the problems some data and some evidence base on which to do it. And this is a Government that talks the talk about evidence says that it's all about it and "Leave this to the experts."—we've had epidemiologists up the wazoo giving us their views of life and the cosmos in this country but actually I don't know—Hon Andrew Little: That member says to ask them.Hon SIMON BRIDGES: Well the reality is this Andrew Little: epidemiologists aren't economists. They actually aren't in all cases public health experts. They aren't in all cases educationalists who understand the ramifications of policies in a broader sense. And that's frankly Andrew Little what's been missing so badly from this Government with lockdown—a situation where all that's going on is reliance on a few epidemiologists and a guy called Ashley Bloomfield and no understanding of the very real downsides of lockdowns and the Government's strict approach. But I digress.I come back to the point that we want to see some good process and substance in making laws. And my concern overall actually is that this Government has got away from that. I worry about the Public Service and the strength and weakness actually of them—that they don't stand up to that and that those processes have been eroded. And in relation to the commercial rents aspect—Hon Andrew Little: That member has never worried about the Public Service.Hon SIMON BRIDGES: See again Andrew Little chips that I have no regard for those things. I don't make the mistake that he makes—Hon Kris Faafoi: Stop taking the bait! Hook line and sinker!Hon SIMON BRIDGES: Well there's 10 minutes to fill here—there's 10 minutes to fill here Kris Faafoi. I don't make the mistake of equating quality and quantity as the same thing. You see Andrew Little thinks if he employs another 10000 public servants which is what Labour's done actually over the last four years that somehow that makes a better response. Often times it actually makes things worse. I'd rather fewer well-paid quality public servants. But the point I wanted to make is this—Hon Andrew Little: The National Government ran it down.Hon SIMON BRIDGES: He says that we ran it down. Well actually inequality's got worse housing's got worse no roads have been built and nothing's happened in public transport—I could keep going on. Public services are worse. We've got less surgeries in our hospitals—that was even before COVID; so I don't think that case made it.But my question to Minister Faafoi is simply this: whether he has had any advice and whether he knows the size the scale the quantum of the potential rent relief here. Or is he just flying in the dark? Does he literally have no radar no scanning no ability to know what is happening here? So I want to know the answer to that. And I would note on my wider point around whether or not there's been any analysis any regulatory impact about this from the Ministry of Justice from Crown Law from DPMC and the like this is what DPMC says—and this is an important point that has not been made in this debate so far—the DPMC disclosure statement states that they don't know the size and scale of the problem or how many commercial leases this will impact."