9. Question No. 9—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 9—Social Development and EmploymentSPEAKER: Before I call question No. 9 I just advise the House that I have been advised by the Minister that because its answer is somewhat technical it is even longer than she normally gives.9. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many people if any receiving unabated main benefits will not see a net increase of $20 in their bank account weekly as a result of the July increase to main benefits?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): The short answer is: all people on a main benefit receive a net increase of $20 and that was effective as of 1 July keeping in mind though that benefits are paid in arrears and so it won't be in full effect until next week when they get the full payment that they are entitled to. However I believe the member is asking whether supplementary assistance such as accommodation supplement and temporary additional support will be affected by the $20 rise in benefits. The system we use to pay income support is complicated and we are undertaking a longer-term project to simplify it. Supplementary assistance is also available to working people; therefore how much an individual is eligible for depends on how much they earn and what their costs are. If someone's wages or benefit goes up then their supplementary assistance will adjust depending on these costs. But when temporary additional support falls it is not abated dollar for dollar for beneficiaries. The formula is more complicated. From 1 July those who received a benefit increase of $20 could find themselves better off per week by $26 when supplementary assistance adjusts. Others who have lower weekly costs may find themselves better off by around $15 per week. I am not able to give the exact figure the member asked for because the number of people on benefit changes daily and not everyone will have received their full increase yet as benefits as I said are paid in arrears. Also important to mention that the modelling originally used by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) and Treasury during the Budget process modelled assuming 372000 would be receiving a benefit as of 1 July when the actual number is closer to 354000. So it is complicated but the reality is that the vast majority of people are going to be better off and we look forward to 1 April next year when the full increase kicks in.Ricardo Menéndez March: How many people will not receive the full extra $20 a week in hand because they also get the accommodation supplement temporary additional support and another payment to meet the cost of living—and this is not just about those better off? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: So the majority of people will be better off. There's only 125 people out of the 354000 that will not be better off and they will get a temporary additional payment in place to ensure that they are no worse off. But what I have asked MSD to do and what they will be doing is in the next few weeks a point-in-time study to actually ascertain the brackets in terms of how much people are better off. But for the vast majority it's more than $15 a week and as I said some will be better off by $26. In fact I've been told some may be better off by $29 per week when the adjustments are actually made.Ricardo Menéndez March: Will the top-up provided to people who would otherwise be worse off with benefit increases as a result of the complex interaction between benefits and supplementary assistance lift their benefits so they now receive a full additional $20 a week in hand?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: My understanding is that it ensures that they don't fall below what they're currently getting so that 125 people out of the 354000 will not fall below and my understanding is that once the increase kicks in on 1 April then they will be better off.Ricardo Menéndez March: Can the Minister confirm if there will be people who will not be receiving a net increase in their bank account of at least $20?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Everyone will get a net increase in their bank account of $20 but how it affects their supplementary support is different. But as I said the vast majority of people will be better off by at least $15 per week and some even upwards of $26 per week.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Does she agree with Auckland Action Against Poverty co-ordinator Brooke Fiafia that the recent $20 benefit increase that some aren't yet receiving is trash more than transformational?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: No I don't. If it was just one $20 benefit increase that we were putting into place then that would be insufficient but we've had a programme of work in welfare reform that has been running since we started. We've seen the indexation of benefits to wages which will see them go up more every year; we had a $25 increase last year; we've repealed one major sanction and are on the verge of repealing another major sanction; we have made changes to the culture and the way that MSD works with clients; we've lifted abatement thresholds so that people can earn more without losing the benefit like they were before; and we've got more benefit increases coming into effect on 1 April. Those are only some of the changes. No one change is transformational but the programme of work that we have had under way is transformational.