McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:629;Page:1368] 
12.  
Hon MURRAY McCULLY (National—East Coast Bays) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Has she been advised of reports that her Minister of Foreign Affairs is intent on building a better relationship between New Zealand and the United States; if so does that represent the foreign policy of her Government? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes and I welcome building on the already very very good relationship that New Zealand has with the United States. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Why did the Prime Minister respond to Mr Peters’ stated intention of seeking help from the Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs Mr Downer to improve the relationship with the United States by rejecting the need for a better relationship or any help from Mr Downer because New Zealand could “paddle its own canoe”; and why did her Minister of Foreign Affairs ignore her and ask Mr Downer for help anyway? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Even the very best of relationships can always be improved on and I look forward to the Minister’s efforts in that regard. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Which policy is the policy of the Prime Minister’s Government: the policy promoted by Mr Peters that we need a better relationship with the United States and that Mr Downer is helping us to get one or her policy that the relationship with the United States needs no improvement and therefore we do not need any help from Mr Downer? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: He’s sensitive. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I am always very sensitive about things that are total untruths. My point of order is that that statement made by Mr McCully is absurdly incorrect. It is not the policy of the Government it has never been a policy articulated by me and the member should not be allowed to get up and just make it up on the hoof as he tried to do yesterday in front of a very august group of people who went away horrified at his suggestions. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is a debating point. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I am not sure of the name of the member—it is the new one over there next to the one from the West Coast—who interjected twice or three times during Mr Peters’ point of order. I know that the front-bench members are sticking to the rules; maybe the back-benchers could. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I did not hear that but I know we are getting towards the end of question time and there might be a slight anxiousness to move to the general debate. I just ask members to observe the rules. When points of order are being made—before they are ruled to be in or out of order—the members doing them are to be given courtesy. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I repeat that we have a very very good relationship with the United States but even the best relationships can always be built on. However unlike the National Party this Government would not sell the nuclear-free policy down the drain to do it. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: When the Minister of Foreign Affairs said recently that he wanted to put the New Zealand - United States relationship “on a much more harmonious and positive level” what was he saying about the current state of the relationship? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: He was saying precisely that very very good relationships can still be improved. I might say it is a great comfort to speak for a party that has a policy unlike the National Party—“McCully: Nats need policy”. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: E whakaae ana te Pirimia ki te korero o tana Minita o te Manatu Aorere i a ia e ki ana i tenei Whare i te 13 o Hakihea i te tau kua hipa mo nga take whakawhitiwhiti korero ki nga tangata whenua o te ao. Anei pea te whakautu pai ki a matou ko te kawanatanga e korero ana ki te tangata whenua kua whakaae mai tetahi nga tangata whenua nei hei minita mo nga take o tawahi. Mena ae ko wai ma te hunga i wananga nei tenei korero? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
Does the Prime Minister agree with the Minister of Foreign Affairs who told this House on 13 December 2005 on matters of consultation with indigenous peoples of the world: “…perhaps the best answer is this: in consulting the indigenous people the Government appointed one as the Minister of Foreign Affairs.”? 
] 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am having a little problem understanding that question. Of course the Minister of Foreign Affairs is very proud of his Maori heritage. He is an indigenous person. I really do not know what else to take from the question. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Ko te tikanga o taku patai e hangai tonu ana ki te korero a te Minita i te tau kua hipa. Koinei te tika o taku patai ‘kaua mo te pai mo te kino ranei engari mo tana korero.i te tau kua hipa. Kaore i whakautu mai tera korero. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
The essence of my question focused on the Minister’s statement that he made last year. In fact my question was not about whether it was good or bad but rather about what he said in the year past. She did not answer that statement 
.] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The difficulty I had with the supplementary question I suppose was that it was a very broad one given the primary question. I think the Prime Minister has addressed it so I ask for the supplementary question from the Hon Murray McCully. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The focus of the primary question—I will try to help you by speaking English on this—was foreign policy. This supplementary question was based on the response given by the Minister to a question in this House sometime around 13 December last year about consultation with indigenous people. The interpreter has given you the response to that—a direct quote from  
Hansard 
. I was asking who had been invited to attend the consultation process if that was the case. I still think the answer has not been given. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The focus of the primary question was on the foreign affairs relationship between New Zealand and the United States. I thought your supplementary question was broader than that. But the Prime Minister did address it. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry but I have ruled on that matter—unless it is a new point of order. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Yes it is actually. As I said I took the original question to be about foreign policy. Under that wide heading I would have hoped that the supplementary question was in fact valid. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: If you read the whole of the question you will see that the question was specific to that but as I said the Prime Minister did address your question. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Can we take it from the Prime Minister’s recent public comments that it is her position that she will contradict and ride roughshod over her Minister of Foreign Affairs when he says he intends to improve our relationship with the United States and to get help from Mr Downer to achieve that goal but will stand 100 percent behind him when he sets back New Zealand - United States relations as he did yesterday; can she tell the House just what sort of signal those actions are intended to send to Washington? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I will certainly support the Minister of Foreign Affairs’ efforts to build on our very very good relationship with the United States. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: I seek the leave of the House to table two documents. First of all I seek leave to table a transcript of an interview with the Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs Mr Downer in which he makes it clear that Mr Peters sought assistance from him in improving relations with the United States. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Second I seek leave to table a press report quoting Mr Peters directly as calling for a more positive and harmonious relationship between New Zealand and the United States. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given how busy the United States is in the Middle East Iraq and other parts of the world and given the huge complex and intricate arrangements that we have put together in this country over the last 4 or 5 years in respect of the Pacific might it be that the United States is not as aware of them as it could be and that in terms of enhancing our relationships its better understanding of that might just help; might that not be the case? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: For all the reasons the Minister has given it would be entirely understandable if not a great deal of notice was taken in Washington of what happens in micro-States in the South Pacific. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I ask the Prime Minister whether— 
Lindsay Tisch 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is he standing up or sitting down? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is outrageous—I agree. That was totally uncalled for. Would the member please withdraw and apologise for that comment. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw and apologise but my point of order is that I was on my feet— 
Lindsay Tisch 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. New Zealand First members are normally allocated four questions. Today they have six questions because the Government has given them an extra two supplementary questions. This would be their seventh question and that is out of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is out of order actually. There is an arrangement to transfer supplementary questions and I know that other parties do that. 
Lindsay Tisch 
: No I have checked today and New Zealand First members were allocated six questions. They have had their six questions. The Minister is now trying to ask the seventh question which is out of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Due to the nature of the question and knowing full well that National members would not be able to sustain the attack for more than four questions I arranged with Labour to be able to ask three questions that being its allocation. It is very simple really. Knowing who I was up against and how weak they would be I tried to till the debating chamber for three more questions. That is exactly what the arrangement is and it is above board. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: My understanding leaving aside some of the comments the member made is that in fact there are still spare Labour supplementary questions which the member is quite able to use because we think he is doing a very useful job in showing up the Opposition. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have checked and in fact the Labour members have supplementary questions left. If they wish to transfer those questions they can in the same way that other parties can. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I take you back to a few minutes ago when Mr Peters made his rather unfortunate remark. You asked him to withdraw and apologise. He did so in a very qualified sort of way. I do not think you can put up with that. It is not unusual for him to do this sort of thing. He may be a Minister and he may want to ask a question now to justify his own position but I suggest that probably a spell out of the House is what is now needed for him. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: In the interests of some tranquillity around here I apologise and withdraw. Can I ask the Prime Minister given that the United States has advocated its engagement in large theatres of the world where democracy or the growth of democracy is imperilled and given that it seeks to re-establish it is the United States’ understanding of our own engagement in our part of the world in an identical and a like-minded cause important in our obtaining a better relationship with the United States? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Yes I believe it is. That is why we will welcome a visit that I understand is impending from assistant secretary of State Christopher Hill so that we can take the opportunity to have him on our home ground to talk about the work we do in the South Pacific. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Prime Minister recall reading page 8 of yesterday’s speech by myself—[ 
Interruption 
] A wonderful speech it was. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Members should remember that when members are asking questions they are to be heard in silence. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Thank you Madam Speaker but that was more by way of an applause intervention. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member just ask the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does she recall reading three paragraphs in which I specifically pointed out that US assistant secretary of State—the former Ambassador to Seoul who is now in charge of Asia and the Pacific—Christopher Hill was aware of what we have done and has pointed out the need for us to better get our message across to Washington on that record; and would that not help us to have a better relationship with the United States? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Yes I understand that the member did draw attention to that in the speech. I myself have had the chance to speak with Mr Hill and to endeavour to make him aware of that and I know that if and when Mr Hill comes to New Zealand the Minister will work to see that New Zealand’s fine efforts in the Pacific are well recognised. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Pai te Pirimia mena ka pataia te patai ki te Minita o te Manatu Aorere mehemea he Maori ia ka taea e ia te ki ‘he patai kaikiri tera’; mena kei te whakaae he aha ai ki te kore he aha ai? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Does she agree that asking the Maori Minister of Foreign Affairs about his ethnicity amounts to racism if so why and if not why not? 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That question is not in order in this context. I presume it relates to question 12 and that is not in order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In respect of the ruling you gave to my colleague from the Maori Party it seems that that question has been asked twice in respect of the issue of ethnicity by a so-called leading journalist. You might give the Prime Minister the chance to point out just how absurdly embarrassing it is that— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please be seated. That is not a valid point of order.