Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:626;Page:21244] 
2. Dr MURIEL NEWMAN (Deputy Leader—ACT) 
 on behalf of  
STEPHEN FRANKS (ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Why did the Budget cut provision for inmate employment by nearly $5 million to $30 million when inmate numbers are growing and do the published measures properly report the effectiveness of corrections inmate employment programmes? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 I am advised that— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: They don’t believe in work. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: About time to see the pharmacist again! I am advised that the $5 million—[ 
Interruption 
] Have I not seen your brother on a Telecom advertisement? I am advised— 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I am not commenting on the interjections which I thought were very reasonable and witty. But it is unacceptable that a Minister should bring your brother being in a Telecom advertisement into his answer and he should apologise to you and to this House. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: When there are interjections then as members know there is likely to be a response. I am sorry I have ruled on that Mr Hide. Is this a new point of order? 
Rodney Hide 
: Yes. I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The accusation was not against a member of the Opposition; it was actually against you. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry I did not take offence at it. 
Rodney Hide 
: I did. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry you may well take offence on my behalf but I did not. I appreciate your concern for me. I do however wish the Minister to proceed with his answer. Thank you. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Is this a new point of order? 
Rodney Hide 
: When a Minister or an MP stands up and brings the Speaker into the debate by referring to “your brother” being on a Telecom advertisement that is actually a reflection on the entire House. He should not bring you into the debate and he should be pulled up accordingly. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I agree with that point. Now would the Minister please proceed with the answer. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I am advised that the $5 million difference the member refers to is not a cut to the inmate employment budget. It represents an internal transfer in 2004-05 to offset among other things a commercial loss caused by difficult trading conditions particularly in the timber processing industries. Overall there is a planned 14 percent increase in the hours of inmate employment between 2004-05 and 2005-06. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: How can the public have any confidence in the honesty of the research produced by this Government when emails between Department of Corrections managers show that the research report “to build the case for further employment training” will “be highly skewed as we are looking for our top inmate performers people you thought would be most likely to get a job post-release.” and is this not another example of the Labour Government cooking the books to make their soft-on-crime policies look good? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Quite a lot and no. 
Tim Barnett 
: What plans does the Minister have to increase the effectiveness of inmate employment activities and to meet demand? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The inmate employment and training strategy is currently under review. The department is working on a number of initiatives to increase the effectiveness of inmate employment activity and to meet demand. They include extending vocational training activities and better aligning these with industry needs joint initiatives with the Ministry of Social Development to place prisoners in work on release and further developing the numbers and relevance of New Zealand Qualifications Authority unit standards delivered in prisons. These initiatives will form part of the strategic plan for inmate employment which is due for release in the first quarter of this year. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Will the Minister be taking any action over what appears to be a growing culture within his department for departmental officials to fudge the figures showing the numbers of ex-inmates getting a job and can he also confirm that his department is also fudging the prison numbers? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: There is no such culture as the member says. The Government acknowledges of course that the numbers of inmates are rising because this Government has got tough on crime unlike the previous Government which did nothing for 9 long years as was shown by the referendum in 1999 which was a referendum on the National Government’s inactivity on law and order for 9 years. 
Dail Jones 
: Why should the Opposition have any confidence in the Minister’s answer to that question bearing in mind the evidence put forward to the Minister that there appears to be an effort within his department to distort those work-related figures to the best types of workers and bearing in mind that in the past the Minister has not been able to have confidence in his department—for example as in the “goon squad” inquiry? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The point is that the issue of inmate employment is really critical. People are now indicating to us that there are job shortages in New Zealand. I am very determined to make sure that inmates get proper education and vocational skills training so they can meet those needs. The department is highly focused on that at the moment. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: Does the Minister expect civil servants to skew research reports by selecting “the top 10 inmates” and declaring that to be a representative sample; if not will he tell the House that civil servants cooking the books in that way is unacceptable? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I have not heard of the allegation until now and that is not what I would describe as cooking the books. I am indicating to the member that the Government and the department is very very focused on trying to make major improvements on inmate employment and training. This is the time to do it—a time of labour shortages—and it is really critical that we make improvements in the best interests of not only inmates but also communities within which they will work. 
Rodney Hide 
: Will the Minister now just front up to the House and say that it is unacceptable for the data of his departmental officials to be “highly skewed” in order to make the case for another soft-on-crime policy; or is it the case that what officials are doing—skewing the data to make results look good by choosing only the top inmate results—is exactly what this Government expects in every department: police health and corrections? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: It is hardly a get-soft-on-crime campaign when we now have the biggest number of inmates New Zealand has ever seen. That is different from the time actually when the ACT party supported the previous National Government which did nothing for the 3 years during which ACT supported it. This Government is determined to make improvements in employment training and education. We are going to make some changes and those changes will be announced in the first quarter of this year. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does the Minister find it acceptable that his manager Win McDonald sent an email on 25 May copied to his boss Royden Motu saying that they had an opportunity to “demonstrate the corrections inmate employment training results” in order to make the case for more funding and that “the report output will be highly skewed as we are looking for our top inmate performers”; is it acceptable that his managers do skew and cook the results—yes or no? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I am always highly highly suspicious of allegations from the ACT party but I will look into that. 
Rodney Hide 
: Would the Minister if it turns out that those emails are correct and that his corrections managers are skewing results by choosing a non-representative sample in order to increase their budget just tell the House whether he finds that acceptable; and what action he will take? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I will make no comment until such time as I have seen the evidence. That is clear because it is not the first time that the ACT party has got a whole pile of things very very wrong. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: I seek leave to table the series of emails that show that those Department of Corrections officials appear to have been cooking the books. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the results of a referendum in 1999 about National’s inactivity on law and order for 9 years. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is; it will not be tabled.