Flavell Te Ururoa: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — In Committee 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:657;Page:6415] 
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
: 
 Mr Chairman kia ora tatau katoa i tenei ata. I te tuatahi me mihi ra ki te hunga o roto i a au i a Te Arawa i tenei rangi nga taiohi e whakataetae nei i te ahuatanga o Te Manu Korero. He kaupapa nui e hangai tonu ana ki tenei kaupapa i te rangi nei. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Greetings to us all this morning Mr Chairman. Firstly I acknowledge today Te Arawa and the young ones taking part in Te Manu Korero speech competitions a great event that relates directly to this matter. 
] 
Ae no reira ra kia ora tatou katoa. One thing I remember about the Committee stage of the Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill was the voting pattern. Our voting procedure for one reason or another found us all of a sudden speaking Maori in this Chamber on a regular basis. Funnily enough I have not heard that pattern repeated since that day so I hope that in the context of Maori seats we might think about our voting patterns and the broader issues in respect of te reo Maori. That is the first issue. 
The second issue is that I was ready to give a lot of kudos to my relation from Ngati Ngararanui the Hon Mita Ririnui because in fact the bill that he spoke about—the bill that he ushered through this Parliament in 2001 on the issue of Maori representation on the Bay of Plenty Regional Council—set the scene for what the Maori Party believes is a great pattern to be used throughout the country. The downside is that no one has picked that pattern up which I suppose is in a sense symbolic of what might happen with this particular bill the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill. It sets a scene and it sets a precedent but it all depends on whether people are willing to follow it. I was not here when Mita Ririnui’s bill was being debated but I heard about the background: the debate was 9 years ago and there were battles in this Chamber in respect of Maori representation. Although there might have been a scrap about the bill in the end the theory was that it would set a precedent for the country. But that did not happen. It has not happened to date; in fact Maori representation was almost got rid of not long ago and cut back to two seats. Now it has stayed the same. 
One thing I hope that this country comes to grips with is that it is OK to have Maori representation. I ask people not to be scared and not to worry; we are not going to take over the country—just yet. People do not have to be scared about it. Maori people actually have some good ideas to contribute to this country and local body seats are one way of doing that if we only get a shot at getting in. That is the problem. The practical experience of Maori people in this country finding a place on local bodies is not too hot. In fact the Hon Tau Henare—for one reason or another when it came out in public about how he was thinking on this particular issue—highlighted the experience by talking about the record for Auckland; eight seats I think it was. Maori have been elected on to the board eight times. That is all good. Rodney Hide stood up in the Chamber this morning and said it can be done. It can be done but it relies on so many things. There is the catch. 
I know that I will probably take a couple of calls on this bill during the course of the day but I just put in a good word for Tau Henare Mr Chair. He is trying hard to get a call and I am sure you will think of him in the future. 
To try to set the scene for our other comments I will kick off by saying that on the eve of the Auckland-Northland Local Government New Zealand meeting at Manukau City on 28 August councillor Richard Northey—a former member of Parliament I believe and the chair of the Local Government New Zealand Zone 1—made a statement that I hope all members will heed. He said: “For the supercity to have a chance of working it is crucial it has the confidence of all significant sectors of Auckland particularly Maori.” That is what he said. Auckland Maori have said in no uncertain terms that they need Maori seats in order to gain the assured authentic voice of Maori at the top table of Auckland governance and that they need to have confidence in the new Auckland Council. It was Mr Northey who raised the lousy record of Auckland voters in electing only eight Maori to the Auckland City Council throughout its long 138-year history. I can say because I am a teacher that that is an average of one Maori appointed every 17 years. Despite my relation the Hon Mita Ririnui saying that the Maori Party members have not been he should know that we have been in there from the start. He knows that so I am not too sure why he mentioned that korero. We have not been able to support this bill because it simply does not provide for Maori representation in the governance structure of the proposed Auckland City. 
At the first reading of the bill the Maori Party raised a number of points in support of dedicated seats. We said that it was a specific recommendation of the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance that it was consistent with current provisions in the Local Government Act 2002 and that dedicated Maori seats uphold the partnership relationship established between Maori and the Crown through the Treaty of Waitangi including the partnership established with mana whenua of Auckland. This position has been underscored by the many public submissions received by the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee which has been examining the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill with the report noting that substantial support was received for reserved seats for Maori. 
That was some background to the bill but I want to catch up on a few statements made by the Hon Rodney Hide. He talked about principle. I suppose the bigger principle that I am asking about that the Maori Party is asking about—and indeed I hear Labour asking about—is whether we accept the notion against the background of Te Tiriti o Waitangi that it is appropriate that Maori have a say as of right on a city council. That is the issue. Do we accept that principle? Mr Hide is a principled man and that is the principle we should be talking about not “special seats” as he termed it. We are not asking for special seats; we are asking for our seats—mana whenua seats that acknowledge the connection of Maori of Tamaki-makau-rau to the land. That is what we are talking about. That is not a privilege; surely it is a right. Te Tiriti o Waitangi is all about rights and obligations. He actually quoted from Te Tiriti o Waitangi which was nice. The downside was that it was the English version. If he had looked at the Maori version— 
David Garrett 
: Which one? There’s more than one. 
TE URUROA FLAVELL 
: That is correct and that is the point I am making. If he had looked at the Maori version he would know that it is quite significantly different. 
David Garrett 
: There’s more than one Maori version. 
TE URUROA FLAVELL 
: Yes and they all line up. They all line up. That is fine. We will hear from the Treaty expert shortly if he wishes to take a call! 
In rounding up I say that in Rotorua it is all fine to talk about Maori representation when it happens but the problem is that there are too many ifs and probably a lot of buts. The problem is that unless one has a profile and unless one puts up the big dollars there is no way in hell that Maori will find a seat on a district council. We must remember that the ones who are there in Rotorua represent everybody for goodness’ sake! They are not Maori representatives; in fact they would probably get killed off because they do not go in hard enough on Maori representation. Yet our people want to have their say. Why? Because they are linked to that land they are linked to that area. There is their whakapapa. That is what we are talking about in this bill and we want to add to the discussion later on with some significant Supplementary Order Papers that will hopefully draw a line in the sand in respect of how we view this whole discussion. 
I know very much that my time is up Mr Chairman and that I probably will not get three calls in a row as I am not yet a Minister but be that as it may I am sure that you will look kindly on us throughout the rest of the day. Kia ora tatou.