edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Cullen Michael: Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 3) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Cullen Michael: Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 3) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee Third Reading 
[Sitting date: 14 December 2004. Volume:622;Page:17805. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Revenue) 
: 
 I move  
That the Subordinate Legislation (Confirmation and Validation) Bill (No 3) be now read a third time 
. There were just two issues I think raised during the Committee stage that I would like to refer to at this point. Mr Tisch raised some questions about the nature of the gambling levy and the reasons for some changes in policy and on those issues I have undertaken to get the Minister of Internal Affairs to come back to him. Heather Roy and Gordon Copeland and others raised issues around the Alcohol Advisory Council levy confirmation and I gave an undertaking that the Associate Minister of Health was looking at the issues raised in relation to that particularly to the issues raised by the Distilled Spirits Association.
Vote: Corrections Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
Vote: Corrections Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:617;Page:13044] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 56 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 8. 
Noes 61 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 8; Progressive 2. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of Marc Alexander to clause 198 be agreed to: 
to omit subclause (3).
Amended answers to Oral Questions — Question No. 1 to Minister 29 July 
Amended answers to Oral Questions — Question No. 1 to Minister 29 July 
[Volume:610;Page:7425] 
Amended answers to Oral Questions 
Question No. 1 to Minister 29 July 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct a couple of mistakes I made in relation to question No. 1 yesterday. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is objection.
Pettis Jill: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
Pettis Jill: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:606;Page:3668] 
JILL PETTIS (NZ Labour—Whanganui) 
: 
 In the light of the speech made by the member who has just resumed his seat I say that I support the bill. 
Bill read a first time.
Vote: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Vote: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:607;Page:4999] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 61 
Noes 56 
Motion agreed to. 
Labour 52; Green Party 9. 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 8. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I remind members that there is to be silence during the voting process.
Cullen Michael: Business Statement 
Cullen Michael: Business Statement 
[Volume:423;Page:18525] 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 Next week in the House priority will be given to the remaining stages of the Customs and Excise (Motor Spirits) Amendment Bill the Films Videos and Publications Classification Amendment Bill and the Committee stage of the Ngati Awa Claims Settlement Bill. Priority will also be given to any first readings on the Order Paper.
Tanczos Nandor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Tanczos Nandor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18753] 
7.  
NANDOR TANCZOS (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he agree that the student support system discriminates against women Maori and people under 25; if not why not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 The student support system does not discriminate against women or Maori; it does discriminate against people under 25 based on their parents’ income. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Is the Minister aware that 82 percent of Maori tertiary students are paying fees and taking out loans to gain a senior high school equivalent or certificate qualification which is free at secondary school while the number of Maori attending university has been static since 1998 and how is that equitable participation? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think following the last question the member will realise that of that very large group of Maori students doing level 1 2 and 3 qualifications many—in fact the majority of them—are at the wananga and are not charged fees. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Does the Minister agree with a report in the  
Dominion Post  
that women can expect to take twice as long as men to pay off their student loans—that is thousands of dollars in extra interest and adds around 20 percent to the overall cost of a degree; if so how is paying more for education on the basis of gender not discriminatory? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Two points: first the current figures that we have are that there is a difference of about 2 years between 9 and 11 years; but secondly I want to make it clear that I disagree with the ACT policy which involves criticism because it is free use of cheap money. 
Moana Mackey 
: When was the age of independence set at 25 years? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Following the promise to abolish student tuition fees “no ifs no buts no maybes” 1991 by Lockwood Smith. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: With regard to the Minister’s answer to my primary question where he accepted that there is discrimination on the basis of age how does he justify that what is the rational justification and can he point to any other legislation in which a 24-year-old is considered to be his or her parents’ financial responsibility? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I can certainly show him the custom and practice. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Has the Minister received any advice about a generation of students that enjoyed the benefits of post-war prosperity had a practically free tertiary education then when in power cut taxes implemented privatisation user-pays and the student loan scheme to pay for them and now wants its retirement paid for as well; how does he describe that as anything other than intergenerational theft? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Under this Government we have had some intergenerational equity with fees on average coming down loan conditions being improved and allowances being extended to a much wider group.
Beyer Georgina: Auckland War Memorial Museum Site Empowering Bill — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
Beyer Georgina: Auckland War Memorial Museum Site Empowering Bill — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:611;Page:8376] 
GEORGINA BEYER (NZ Labour—Wairarapa) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Hide Rodney: Motions — Presidential Election USA—Congratulations 
Hide Rodney: Motions — Presidential Election USA—Congratulations 
[Volume:621;Page:16594] 
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
: 
 I seek the leave of the House to move a non-controversial motion without debate congratulating President George Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney on their re-election. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that?
Hunt Jonathan: Points of Order — Rodney Hide—Apology to the House Minister of Maori Affairs—Answer to Question 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hunt Jonathan: Points of Order — Rodney Hide—Apology to the House Minister of Maori Affairs—Answer to Question 
[Sitting date: 19 June 2003. Volume:609;Page:6413. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member cannot seek leave for anybody else.
Benson-Pope David: Radio New Zealand Amendment Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
Benson-Pope David: Radio New Zealand Amendment Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:616;Page:12243] 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Acting Minister of Broadcasting) 
: 
 I am pleased to take a brief call. I would like to begin by acknowledging this House’s debt to my colleague Steve Maharey for his tireless and quite visionary work in this area. In that regard I would like to thank one of the preceding speakers my colleague Martin Gallagher for the comments he made and also the previous speaker Sue Kedgley for her enlightened comments. 
I do not wish to take a great deal of the Committee’s time but I would like to make some observations about the comments we have heard this evening. In terms of New Zealand First’s objections to this bill in the form of Mr Catchpole I guess the New Zealand community can only marvel at any objection to the words “a full range of age groups” being added to a charter of this kind. Like members of the Committee I guess listeners will also ask themselves why anyone let alone a political party would have such an objection. 
But of greater interest were the extraordinary objections from the National Party spokesperson on broadcasting. Ms te Heuheu earlier objected to the inclusion of the words “spiritual and ethical” in the charter. As a demonstration of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of that party I guess that is not entirely surprising. But what the Committee may be interested to share is the fact that during the discussion and correspondence around this bill the National Party confirmed in writing that it had no objection at that time to the inclusion of the word “spiritual” in the charter. It did object to the word “ethical” and that brings me back to my earlier comments about Mr Catchpole. Why one would object to ethical considerations in a document of this kind or ethical considerations for a full range of age groups one would have to wonder. 
But I would like to thank the National Party for being so unaccommodating and not allowing this matter to proceed in the simple procedural way suggested by a Statutes Amendment Bill. In doing so the National Party has allowed us another insight into its policy. It is not often that we see National Party policy but in the same documents I am referring to I can inform the Committee that National lodged a further objection to recommendation 9 which relates to Radio New Zealand International indicating that it would not support such a recommendation at all. For the information of those who do not have these documents recommendation 9 recommends to the Government that the Act acknowledge Radio New Zealand International as an international radio service to the Pacific region. 
I would like to thank the National Party for being so clear about its continued privatisation agenda for this service. I think New Zealanders across the country not just listeners to Radio New Zealand will be very grateful for yet another insight into how vast the policy gulf is between the parties in this Chamber.
Vote: Prisoners' and Victims' Claims Bill — First Reading 
Vote: Prisoners' and Victims' Claims Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:622;Page:18005] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the motion be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand Labour 51; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 56 
New Zealand National 24; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 9; Green Party 9; Maori Party 1. 
Motion agreed to.
Vote: Business Law Reform Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Business Law Reform Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:616;Page:12410] 
A party vote  was called for on the question  
That the motion be agreed to.  
Ayes 71 
New Zealand Labour 52; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 48 
New Zealand National 26; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Motion agreed to.
Vote: Education (Export Education Levy) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Education (Export Education Levy) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:619;Page:14755] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That Part 1 as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 63 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; Progressive 2; Maori Party 1. 
Noes 57 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 8; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Part 1 as amended agreed to.
Vote: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8228] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 43 
New Zealand National 23; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7. 
Noes 68 
Labour 52; Green Party 8; United Future 8. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of Rodney Hide to clause 254 be agreed to: 
to omit this clause.
Business of Select Committees — Membership 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Business of Select Committees — Membership 
[Sitting date: 15 October 2003. Volume:612;Page:9163. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Business of Select Committees 
Membership 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I seek leave for Brent Catchpole to be a member of the Government Administration Committee for the purposes of its consideration of the Building Bill but without the right to vote on any question before the committee. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There appears to be none. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I seek leave for Sue Kedgley to be a member of the Commerce Committee for the purposes of its consideration of the financial reviews of the Broadcasting Commission the Broadcasting Standards Authority Radio New Zealand Ltd and Television New Zealand Ltd but without the right to vote on any question before the committee. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that course being followed? There appears to be none.
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:612;Page:8965] 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 Mr Prebble has a point in that where constituents put the issue of their medical treatment into the House by way of a question they must expect an answer from the authorities. However my point is that if the authorities are to respond via the Prime Minister then a modicum of honesty is required. The so-called scan that the Prime Minister was talking about happened over 8 weeks ago. She left the House with a clear impression that she was still waiting upon an investigation into that condition—a demonstrable palpable misleading lie. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will stand withdraw and apologise for that comment. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: What was it? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member cannot accuse another member of a lie. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I beg your pardon? 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I followed your instructions. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well I did not hear the member. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: I withdraw and apologise.
Cullen Michael: Points of Order — Government Notice of Motion No. 2—Presence on Order Paper 
Cullen Michael: Points of Order — Government Notice of Motion No. 2—Presence on Order Paper 
[Volume:626;Page:21243] 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 At the request of the Hon Jim Sutton the notice of motion was removed from the Order Paper last week and does not appear on the Order Paper today. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The matter has been removed. It is not on the Order Paper at this stage.
Hereora Dave: Immigration Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
Hereora Dave: Immigration Amendment Bill (No 2) — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:609;Page:6765] 
DAVE HEREORA (NZ Labour) 
: I rise in support of this bill. I congratulate the Minister of Immigration on articulating a practical way of benchmarking a process of selection and more important—and I agree with my colleague Graham Kelly—on acknowledging the call from employers who have continually complained to me about the skills shortage. I commend this bill to the House.
Hughes Darren: Maori Television Service Bill — In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Maori Television Service Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:607;Page:5030] 
DARREN HUGHES (NZ Labour—Otaki) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Dominion Post Article 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Dominion Post Article 
[Volume:612;Page:9250] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is to say the least reassuring that you had not given that advice. The question is whether we have got officers in this House—and a whip is an officer—advising people that the best way around a sticky situation is to give the Speaker a bottle of wine. It seems to me that that is most disrespectful.
Hobbs Marian: Diplomatic Privileges and Immunities Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Hobbs Marian: Diplomatic Privileges and Immunities Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:615;Page:11248] 
Hon MARIAN HOBBS (Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade) 
: 
 I will try to answer that—and members can see that I am trying as I was taking advice from the officials. The bill as amended because of adding the European Commission in will come into force on the day after the date on which it receives the royal assent. Then following the passing of the legislation we will have to carry out two Orders in Council. Under the new provisions of this bill the European Commission will have one date and the International Criminal Court another. In order to make that coherent in the bill we amended it.
Burton Mark: Speaker’s Rulings — Privileges of the House and Speaker’s Actions 
Burton Mark: Speaker’s Rulings — Privileges of the House and Speaker’s Actions 
[Volume:611;Page:8655] 
Hon MARK BURTON (Deputy Leader of the House) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Clearly the member having made an extraordinarily long speech should have raised that matter either with the Speaker directly or in the proper manner through a complaint to the Privileges Committee. The Standing Orders of this House lay a very clear path for the member to follow. The member is in breach of at least two Speakers’ rulings. I refer him to Speakers’ rulings 15/1 and 15/3. It is increasingly becoming a habit of members of this House to attack through the misuse of points of order rather than to use the proper procedures laid down in the Standing Orders. It is appropriate for that member rather than to sling innuendo through a 10-minute speech—in which he still has not put out any real facts—to do it properly by way of a complaint to the Privileges Committee and stop wasting the time of this House.
Goff Phil: Points of Order — Tabling of Document—Hon Phil Goff 
Goff Phil: Points of Order — Tabling of Document—Hon Phil Goff 
[Volume:627;Page:22262] 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade) 
: 
 I tabled it yesterday. The member needs to come up to speed.
Duynhoven Harry: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
Duynhoven Harry: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8713] 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN (Minister of State) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Pettis Jill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Pettis Jill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:609;Page:6133] 
5.  
JILL PETTIS (NZ Labour—Whanganui) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: What steps has the Government taken in the last week to improve participation in early childhood education? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Post-Budget announcements have meant that a further $1.6 million has been made available through the discretionary grant scheme which means that 463 extra places for children will be provided in quality learning environments. This Government is committed to increasing participation in early childhood education particularly by Maori and Pacific Island children. 
Jill Pettis 
: Are there separate funding pools for different types of services? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes. Separate funding pools were set up in 1996 with the express purpose of increasing the participation of Maori and Pacific Island children in early childhood education services. The fact that money goes to those services has been criticised as racist by the member for Nelson which is an astounding claim given the fact that he as Minister in charge of a Budget put money into them. 
Metiria Turei 
: Rather than taking such a piecemeal approach to improving participation will the Minister undertake a comprehensive review of the funding formula based on real costs as envisaged by the Early Childhood Strategic Planning working-group? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Setting aside the gross inaccuracy of the first part of the question yes.
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:15017] 
3.  
CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
 to the  
Minister of Revenue 
: What steps if any has the Government taken to encourage offshore gas exploration? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Revenue) 
: 
 The conditions of the package were announced on 14 June. I have announced today that the Government is removing the 183-day tax obstacle to gas exploration in New Zealand. That means that non-resident offshore rig operators will not be liable for tax until after the end of 2009. 
Clayton Cosgrove 
: How will those actions assist gas exploration? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Currently non-resident offshore rig operators become liable for taxation if they are resident for more than 183 days. Of course what that tends to mean is they leave New Zealand within 6 months and drilling is delayed. So removing that obstacle will mean our interests are served by keeping the oil rigs drilling. 
John Key 
: If the Government is so confident that those measures will be successful why has it been necessary for taxpayers to provide a financial guarantee to the bankers of the State-owned enterprise Genesis Energy for the proposed combined-cycle power plant at Huntly in the event that it is unable to get gas supply in 2012? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member is incorrect. No financial guarantees have been given to the bankers backing the investment.
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:607;Page:4536] 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I seek leave at this first opportunity to table the New Zealand Qualifications Authority’s registered providers list which shows that Fernridge Institute of Training Ltd is listed on page 3 of those three pages. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.
Brown Peter: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Brown Peter: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15939] 
PETER BROWN (Senior Whip—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I am not wishing for this to become a personal vote. I am simply asking that the parties at least say who voted for and who voted against any particular clause. I believe that the public is entitled to know. I believe with due respect to yourself as Chairperson that this is a serious issue and I do not want to go past it tonight unless I can get some assurance from the Speaker—and I am prepared to call the Speaker back on this matter.
Vote: Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Vote: Fisheries Amendment Bill (No 2) — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:616;Page:11699] 
A party vote 
Ayes 9 
Green Party 9. 
Noes 111 
New Zealand Labour 52; New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8; United Future 8; Progressive 2; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
was called for on the question That the amendment be agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of Ian Ewen-Street to clause 10 be agreed to: 
to add to paragraph (b) of section 265A(1) the following new subparagraph: 
(iv)In the case of fishers who have been prosecuted for non-payment or underpayment of levies on or before 1 October 2003 and who continue to make repayments have all outstanding amounts waived.
Vote: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6187] 
A personal vote  was called for on the question  
That the amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 16 
Ardern (P)  
Carter J 
Key (P) 
Awatere Huata 
Choudhary (P) 
Samuels (P) 
Baldock  
Copeland 
Scott (P) 
Brash (P) 
Cunliffe (P) 
Smith L 
Teller: 
Carter D (P) 
Heatley (P) 
Wong (P) 
Mapp 
Noes 94 
Adams 
Duynhoven 
King 
Shirley (P) 
Alexander 
Dyson (P) 
Laban (P) 
Simich 
Anderton (P) 
English (P) 
Locke (P) 
Smith M 
Barker (P) 
Ewen-Street (P) 
Mackey (P) 
Smith N 
Barnett 
Fairbrother (P) 
Maharey (P) 
Sowry 
Benson-Pope 
Field (P)  
Mahuta (P) 
Stewart (P) 
Beyer 
Fitzsimons (P) 
Mallard (P) 
Sutton (P) 
Bradford (P) 
Gallagher  
Mark (P) 
Swain (P) 
Brown  
Goff (P) 
McNair (P) 
Tanczos 
Brownlee (P)  
Gosche 
O’Connor (P) 
Te Heuheu 
Burton (P) 
Goudie 
Ogilvy  
Tisch (P) 
Carter C (P) 
Gudgeon (P) 
Paraone (P) 
Tizard (P) 
Catchpole 
Hartley 
Parker 
Turei 
Chadwick 
Hawkins (P) 
Peck (P) 
Turia (P) 
Clark 
Hereora 
Perry (P) 
Turner 
Coddington (P) 
Hide (P) 
Peters J (P) 
Ward (P) 
Collins 
Hobbs (P) 
Peters W (P)  
Williamson (P) 
Cosgrove (P) 
Hodgson (P) 
Pillay (P) 
Wilson (P) 
Cullen (P) 
Horomia (P) 
Power (P)  
Woolerton (P) 
Dalziel (P) 
Hughes 
Rich 
Worth (P) 
Donald (P) 
Hunt (P)  
Ririnui 
Yates 
Donnelly (P)  
Jones (P) 
Robertson  
Duncan (P) 
Kedgley (P) 
Robson (P) 
Teller: 
Dunne (P) 
Kelly (P) 
Roy 
Pettis 
Amendments not agreed to. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: We now come to an amendment in the name of the Hon Phil Goff on Supplementary Order Paper 91 placing additional requirements on territorial authorities when considering an application for resource consent for a land use relating to prostitution. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 91 in the name of the Hon Phil Goff to insert new clause 6F and cross heading be agreed to.
Copeland Gordon: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
Copeland Gordon: Prostitution Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6183] 
GORDON COPELAND (United Future) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I can see what you are saying but it seems just as logical to argue the counterfactual—that is to say an amendment that further moves in the direction of restriction is in fact consistent with the amendment that has just been passed but extends it even further. I cannot see that you can say that it is in conflict with it or that it goes towards prohibition. It does not go towards an absolute prohibition. It simply moves further in the direction of restriction. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank the honourable member for his contribution. I am the sole judge of relevance and I have ruled it out of order. I now go to Dr Wayne Mapp’s typescript amendment to the Hon Phil Goff’s Supplementary Order Paper 91 which is quite complicated. It inserts reference in clause 6D to Dr Mapp’s proposed new clause 6CB and reinstates the provisions of clause 6D(2).
Coddington Deborah: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Coddington Deborah: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 15 October 2003. Volume:612;Page:9184. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
8.  
DEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT) 
 to the  
Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee 
: When will the committee report back on the Holidays (Four Weeks Annual Leave) Amendment Bill? 
Hon MARK GOSCHE (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee): 
 The Transport and Industrial Relations Committee is required to report back to the House on this bill by 1 December 2003. 
Deborah Coddington 
: Has this report-back date been extended; if so why? 
Hon MARK GOSCHE 
: As I only became the chairman of the committee last Thursday I am not aware of any extensions. That member has been on the committee longer than me; she should know.
Vote: Estimates Debate —  
Vote: Estimates Debate —  
[Volume:610;Page:7255] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That Vote Climate Change and Energy Efficiency be agreed to. 
Ayes 69 
Labour 52; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Noes 47 
New Zealand National 26; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Vote agreed to. 
Progress reported.
Vote: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (Stockholm Convention) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6992] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 48 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Noes 69 
Labour 52; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of Dr Paul Hutchison to clause 8 be agreed to: 
to insert the following new subclause (1): 
(1)Section 33 of the principal Act is amended by omitting the term “small-scale” wherever it appears.
Duynhoven Harry: Holidays Bill — Third Reading 
Duynhoven Harry: Holidays Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:614;Page:10750] 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN (Minister of State) 
: 
 We have heard some interesting commentary on this bill. I stand to support the bill today and I point out to our friends on the other side of the House that if France’s productivity is such a terrible problem etc. why is it that a French truck maker took over the biggest strongest American truck maker a few years ago? These are the sorts of things that are always debatable. I strongly support this bill.
Wilson Margaret: Points of Order — Members' Bills—Leave to Introduce 
Wilson Margaret: Points of Order — Members' Bills—Leave to Introduce 
[Volume:627;Page:21953] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to introduce that bill. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. The bill will not be introduced.
Power Simon: Points of Order — Question No. 4 to Minister—Minister Answering  
Power Simon: Points of Order — Question No. 4 to Minister—Minister Answering  
[Volume:619;Page:14718] 
SIMON POWER (Senior Whip—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I then ask for your advice on that matter in respect of Speaker’s ruling 130/1. I submit to you that that provision does apply and it is appropriate for you to disallow the transfer noting that it was the comments of the Associate Minister specifically that were particular to her about events that brought about these matters but more particularly that that original question was accepted by the Clerk to go to the Associate Minister and has only since that time been changed by the Government.
Peters Winston: Motions — Black Caps—Test Win Over South Africa 
Peters Winston: Motions — Black Caps—Test Win Over South Africa 
[Volume:616;Page:11825] 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I was not going to add my voice to this motion but I have to correct the previous speaker; it was 3000 runs not 2000—[ 
Interruption 
] I think it is very important. I do endorse the comments of the Hon Peter Dunne but I do wish that members of Parliament would leave it to just one person—the one who thought of it—to move such a motion rather than all rising to try to get some vicarious benefit. 
Motion agreed to.
Burton Mark: Ngati Awa Claims Settlement Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Burton Mark: Ngati Awa Claims Settlement Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:623;Page:18732] 
Hon MARK BURTON (Associate Minister in Charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) 
: 
 I think the point has been made several times that there is a difference between giving a word-by-word translation and delivering the clear intent. The intent is clear and that is precisely what Mr Tamihere delivered to the Committee as I think the member would honestly agree.
Parole (Extended Supervision) Amendment Bill Sentencing Amendment Bill (NO 2) — Third Readings 
Parole (Extended Supervision) Amendment Bill Sentencing Amendment Bill (NO 2) — Third Readings 
[Volume:618;Page:14198] 
Parole (Extended Supervision) Amendment Bill 
Sentencing Amendment Bill (NO 2) 
Third Readings 
Debate resumed. 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Parole (Extended Supervision) Amendment Bill and the Sentencing Amendment Bill (No 2) be now read a third time. 
Ayes 91 
New Zealand Labour 51; New Zealand National 27; Green Party 5; United Future 8. 
Noes 25 
New Zealand First 13; Green Party 4; ACT New Zealand 8. 
Bills read a third time.
Vote: Building Bill — In Committee 
Vote: Building Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:619;Page:14780] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 70 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; United Future 8; Progressive 2. 
Noes 49 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 7; Maori Party 1; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 241 in the name of the Hon John Tamihere to Part 1 be agreed to.
Sowry Roger: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
Sowry Roger: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:608;Page:5421] 
Hon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader—NZ National) 
: 
 I thank Mr Benson-Pope for those times because I did not have the exact time. He is saying that one debate ran for an hour—that is the standard time that this House in Committee has come to expect. It is a standard set by the presiding officers for a bill that has gone to a select committee. In the past where a bill has not gone to a select committee presiding officers have allowed two things: a wider debate and a longer debate. I want to say to you and to your predecessor in the Chair that you have done the first thing extraordinarily well. We have not been wound up with lots of little points of order because you have allowed it to be a wide debate and I presume that is because there has been no select committee. 
The same has not happened in terms of the length. One hour is exactly what we would expect and 1 hour and 11 minutes hardly takes into account that the bill did not go to a select committee. I sought the assurance before we started debating Part 1. I did not take a point of order before you did the vote on the part. I thought that this time before we started Part 2 I would seek another assurance that that would be taken into account.
Cullen Michael: Business Statement 
Cullen Michael: Business Statement 
[Volume:622;Page:17373] 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 There are many bills in my plan in that respect. Obviously the ones that have to be done include the validation bill for regulations of various sorts such as the pension increases the Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill the Aquaculture Reform Bill the Taxation (Annual Rates Venture Capital and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill and any remaining stages of the Social Security (Long-term Residential Care) Bill. Amongst others there may possibly be the Architects Bill and perhaps even the excise duty Bill—I have not talked to the United Future party about that yet. There are already seven first readings on the Order Paper with possibly more by Monday. 
Mr Speaker I also wish you a happy birthday. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Thank you very much. I also thank the Hon Roger Sowry the Hon Mark Gosche and John Banks. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: And it is my wedding anniversary too.
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18465] 
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It relates to question No. 8 and a comment you made. You pulled up Mr Bill English because he had made an inappropriate reference to a Minister and I accept that but what I cannot accept is what you said in the context of it. You said that such a statement would be immediately followed by a point of order from “this side of the House.” It seems to me that there are two things about that. One is that you cannot judge whether a member will raise a point of order at all and the second is you certainly cannot refer to yourself as “this side of the House”. You do not sit on any side of the House; you sit firmly in the middle. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes. I apologise.
Vote: Care of Children Bill — Instruction to Committee Procedure In Committee 
Vote: Care of Children Bill — Instruction to Committee Procedure In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:16674] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 68 
New Zealand Labour 51; Green Party 9; United Future 8. 
Noes 48 
New Zealand National 27; New Zealand First 13; ACT New Zealand 6; Maori Party 1; Independent: Awatere Huata. 
Amendments agreed to.
Eckhoff Gerrard: Motions — Southern Institute of Technology—Ombudsman's Recommendations 
Eckhoff Gerrard: Motions — Southern Institute of Technology—Ombudsman's Recommendations 
[Volume:619;Page:15089] 
GERRARD ECKHOFF (ACT) 
: 
 I want to take a short call on this motion. I think the House has been extraordinarily generous to Mr Peck who of course will be leaving this House because he has announced his retirement from politics at the next election. I do not wish to comment any further on that other than to say that this is a legal issue that has been turned into a political issue and that is inappropriate. 
It is a legal issue. As I understand it this matter was brought before the court and an opinion was given that the matter would not proceed and that the students would not win their case. The students then sought advice elsewhere and received different advice. We can all feel some sympathy for those individuals but if they were and if they feel short-changed their recourse is to the court not to Parliament. It is because Mr Peck is retiring—is being shafted by his own party and has been forced to retire—that he has brought this case. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Order! 
GERRARD ECKHOFF 
: Madam Speaker I can shout longer and louder than any of those— 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: The member is entitled to be heard. 
GERRARD ECKHOFF 
: I make the point that if anybody tries to shout me down I will win any time of the day or night. There is a certain irony—if Government members care to listen for a moment—in that when such matters come before the House at question time Government Ministers stand and say: “That is an operational matter and I cannot or will not comment further”. That is the standard reply from this Government. Now it is giving Mr Peck— with the generosity of the Opposition—a last hurrah so that he can get a headline in Southland and bag his own Southern Institute of Technology an enormously successful organisation. 
I have listened at every opportunity I could to try to understand both sides of this case. I have heard both sides put. I am not capable—and neither is anybody in this House—of making a judgment call because we are not conversant with all the facts. The facts should be put before a properly constituted court—not before those who feel or fancy themselves to be some sort of quasi-lawyer. The court not this Parliament is the appropriate place to debate such an issue. As I said I think it is very generous to give Mr Peck this opportunity for his last hurrah. The ACT party will not vote for this motion.
Hughes Darren: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled  Speaker Recalled In Committee Procedure 
Hughes Darren: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled  Speaker Recalled In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:613;Page:9999] 
DARREN HUGHES (Labour—Otaki) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The question is that the question be now put. As many as are of that opinion will say “Aye” of the contrary opinion will say “No”. The Ayes have it. A party vote is called for?
Benson-Pope David: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
Benson-Pope David: Credit Contracts and Consumer Finance Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:611;Page:8843] 
DAVID BENSON-POPE (Senior Whip—NZ Labour) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Coddington Deborah: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Coddington Deborah: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 15 October 2003. Volume:612;Page:9163. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
1. 
 DEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: How long have schools been given to respond to the Ministry of Education paper on the consolidation of the Private Schools Conditional Integration Act into the Education Act? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Six weeks. However the ministry met with major education sector organisations before the discussion document and the peak bodies for those organisations involved were involved in discussions for some time before that. 
Deborah Coddington 
: The Minister having overseen the closure of scores of schools in the State sector and with hundreds more State schools under review will he deny that the real agenda of this so-called review of the integration Act is to change the legislation to allow him to start closing integrated schools and further reduce choice for parents? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes. 
Jill Pettis 
: Can the Minister please advise the House why changes to the Private Schools Conditional Integration Act are being considered? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: We need to address the issues caused by having five Acts of Parliament dealing with education provisions. This was a matter highlighted in the Daniels case in the Court of Appeal recently. We need to modernise legislation to keep up with the times. The Act was introduced for a specific reason: to protect private schools that were in danger of closing in the 1970s. All those schools have now been integrated. 
Simon Power 
: Should schools in the independent sector be worried about this initiative given the track record of this Government of trying to destroy the independent tertiary sector and the independent early childhood sector; if not why not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think the member should realise we are talking about integrated not independent schools. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister was asked a question. Was there any? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The answer is no. I was trying to explain to the slow member why. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will now stand withdraw and apologise. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Is the Minister satisfied that the fees that integrated schools charge are for property costs only which the law allows or does he believe that some schools are pushing the boundaries of the Private Schools Conditional Integration Act 1975? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The latter. 
Deborah Coddington 
: Will the Minister guarantee that this review will not result in law changes allowing him to close integrated schools; if not is this why the whole matter has been handled so stealthily? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No. The member should know that publishing a document that has gone to hundreds of people around the country if not thousands is not doing things by stealth.
Peck Mark: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
Peck Mark: Customs and Excise (Alcoholic Beverages) Amendment Bill — First Reading Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:608;Page:5397] 
MARK PECK (NZ Labour—Invercargill) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Hunt Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hunt Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:612;Page:8964] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am sorry but the member does not realise what the Standing Orders state. The Standing Orders state that when a leave issue is asked for the leave issue is put. I put the leave issue and it was denied. That is perfectly proper. The member did not break any rules in that regard. He denied leave and that is what he is perfectly entitled to do.
Franks Stephen: Consumer Protection (Definitions of Goods and Services) Bill — In Committee 
Franks Stephen: Consumer Protection (Definitions of Goods and Services) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6870] 
STEPHEN FRANKS (ACT NZ) 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I took from that an inference that no member had yet spoken to the title. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No that is not a point of order and that is not the insinuation that was meant.
Chadwick Steve: Government Communications Security Bureau Bill — In Committee 
Chadwick Steve: Government Communications Security Bureau Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:607;Page:4399] 
STEVE CHADWICK (NZ Labour—Rotorua) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Peters Winston: Points of Order — Question No. 4 to Minister 13 May 
Peters Winston: Points of Order — Question No. 4 to Minister 13 May 
[Volume:608;Page:5678] 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 You will recall that some time ago I raised the issue of the timing of personal explanations by Ministers in this Parliament. The recent phenomenon or trend has been to wait until the press gallery has gone and then to sneak down to this House and give a personal explanation setting the record right. The real issue here which required a number of us to apologise yesterday was a Prime Minister going against all the evidence in front of her face in the introductory bill. That clearly meant that she could not have been telling the truth. That is not a matter of whether she was saying something deliberately or otherwise. On the bare plain facts before this House she nevertheless asserted that she was telling the truth when in fact she could not have been because the introductory bill had the offending clauses in it. And then we had her comments which were the subject of the question when she said they had been introduced at the select committee. 
So the first available opportunity about which Dr Cullen speaks could not have been 7.30 p.m. last night but was straight away when she became aware that the bill which I sought to table had the offending words in it. That meant that she could not have been right on her radio broadcast when she said that those very clauses were introduced at the select committee stage. 
I want you to address that issue and the issue of this business of people coming down to the House away from the glare of publicity away from the glare of television’s coverage of question time and the media presence and getting away with saying that black is white for 4 hours and not apologising instantly when it is known to them that they have simply not been telling the truth.
Simich Clem: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 3) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Simich Clem: Local Government Law Reform Bill (No 3) — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:618;Page:14116] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: The debate is on Part 2 clauses 6 to 20A including debate on schedule 1AA.