Coddington Deborah: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — In Committee 
Coddington Deborah: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:622;Page:17925] 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT) 
: 
 I ask the Minister of Finance whether he could please clarify how clause 218 in Part 7 relates to schedule 6B. I would also like him to clarify whether schedule 6B refers to clauses that apply to tertiary institutions—whether that is the situation. I ask the Minister whether those clauses do not apply to tertiary institutions. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: It’s an inclusive list of those that do apply. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: They do apply. Then I take it that the Archives Act 1957 does apply to tertiary institutions under this Part 7. I ask the Minister whether that is correct— 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Yes. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: —because it is included in schedule 6B. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Well that’s being replaced of course very soon. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: If it does apply then there is something that Professor Stuart McCutcheon has brought to my attention. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Is that who you’re speaking on behalf of? 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: Well yesterday the Minister of Education interjected and called the Vice-Chancellor’s Committee a bunch of fairies but that is typical of the sort of language that the Minister of Education uses to dismiss those who disagree with him. However as Stuart McCutcheon said an early impact of the change in this legislation will be to bring all tertiary education institutions under the Archives Act and the Public Records Bill which means that potentially all teaching and research drafts will become public records. As he said that would be a nonsense if it were strictly enforced. 
None the less it does bring those bodies under the Archives Act. I have the Archives Act here and I would just like to remind the Committee that section 2 of that Act provides that: “ ‘Public archives’ means all public records that have ceased to be in current use in the Government office in which they were originally made or received or in the Government office in whose custody they have been placed or that have been deposited in the National Archives.” and “ ‘Public records’ means all papers documents or records of any kind whatsoever officially made or received by any Government office in the conduct of its affairs or by any employee of the Crown in the course of his official duties;”. There are penalties under the Archives Act for destroying those public records without the permission of the Chief Archivist. 
There are two implications from that. One is the nonsense one where—as has been noted—all teaching and research drafts etc. could be required to be held unless permission was given. The Minister is shaking his head so I would like him to clarify that is not the case. The other implication is for intellectual copyright which many universities potentially gain remuneration and financial benefit from and individuals’ copyright on research that is conducted while individuals are at a university. It is a grey area because public funding goes into it. But if we want to reduce pressure on the public purse and on taxpayers then we should have a balance that does not damage the involvement of private investment in tertiary research and the development of intellectual property. It is not limited to universities; it extends to institutions like the Auckland University of Technology and Unitec. 
As an aside it is an interesting situation that under this legislation universities polytechs and tertiary institutions are all classified as being the same yet simultaneously the Government is pushing through this House a bill that will ban Unitec from being a university. On the one hand those bodies are allowed to be and have to be all the same under this bill while on the other hand the Government is pushing through another bill in a last-minute attempt to stop Unitec—having crossed every hurdle placed in its path—from becoming a university. 
However I would like the Minister to take a call and explain why the Archives Act should apply.