Tolley Anne: Corrections Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Tolley Anne: Corrections Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 13 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:7841. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 I want to take just a few minutes to answer a couple of the questions that have been posed and to talk to a couple of points. First of all I understand that Charles Chauvel prior to my coming into the Chamber asked the question around Public Service requirements applying to private contractors—in this instance Serco—and whether will they be required. Well the answer is of course yes and I refer members to section 199 of the Corrections Act. I have to state the obvious really that prisoners are still covered by the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. Actually the State Sector Act still applies to our staff—so things around equal employment. All of those still apply. And of course there is the Ombudsman. We have this optional protocol the Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture where the Ombudsman is able to go in and have a look at anything in any prison at any time and that will still apply whether it is a privately contracted prison or not. 
Finally and I think perhaps one of the most important features the Minister of Corrections is still accountable to this House for the operations. As Minister I still hold the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections accountable for the workings of those prisons. So he may well delegate powers out to our private provider but I still hold him accountable for the results. Therefore as Minister I am able to be held accountable by this House for the operations of that prison. I think that is a very important part of the private contracting arrangements. 
I would make the point that there have been some outrageous statements made in this Chamber tonight actually about Serco. Fortunately none of them would ever be made outside the House I think because those members would be up before court. But in fact if you look at the operations of Serco in corrections as I have both in Australia and in the UK some of the top performing prisons for rehabilitation have been run by Serco. Some of the top performing prisons that are getting the best results for their prisoners in rehabilitation have been run by Serco. Yes it had a really bad year last year and I held the Department of Corrections’ feet to the fire to make sure that we got that prison operating well. I am very pleased to inform the Committee that in fact it is meeting about 95 percent of the performance measures that we hold it to account for. I expect that that will continue. That is my expectation as Minister. 
I would also say to all members in the Chamber but particularly to the Opposition members—who I am sure will be very interested in it—that we are working very hard to develop some tables of performance that will enable us to compare the performance of all our prisons across New Zealand and that will be made public. That is not an easy thing to do because each prison has different characteristics and deals with different types of prisoners. The Mt Eden prison—contrary to what was said in this Chamber tonight—even though it might have been newly designed is not an easy prison to run simply because of the large number of remand prisoners who are largely short-term prisoners and who are in and out. It is not an easy prison to run and I think that Serco has finally started to do a pretty good job there. 
 The other thing about getting private contractors or different people to come in and run any operation is that it brings in a wealth of new ideas. Some of them are effective and some of them are not but actually you have got an opportunity to have a look at how some things can be done differently. And I have to say that I would say to any member in this House who is interested to go and have a look at Mt Eden prison and what it is doing around those prisoners who are at risk of self-harm. It is trialling something that is quite different from the way we have traditionally dealt with those people who are you know extremely vulnerable people. And to date—touch wood—it is having really good success. We are learning from its methods and what it is doing and that is one of the major benefits of having a different way of operating available to us and to this Government. 
Of course if you look at the new Wiri Prison contract that is a contract that is not about a sausage factory. This is a cutting-edge contract that is entirely results focused. That operator cannot have a sausage-type factory. It is not in its interest to keep prisoners there. It will get rewards if it successfully rehabilitates and reintegrates prisoners back into our communities. The role of the corrections service certainly is to keep its communities safe and the best way that it can do that is to make sure that that turnover that churn of prisoners going back out into the community and committing crimes again for all the reasons that we in this Chamber know—drug and alcohol addiction life with a background of violence being the norm poor educational qualifications no skills—is dealt with. Fifty percent of our prisoners come in not from employment. Many of them have never had a job in their lives. We have an obligation to deal with all of those things and the way we can keep our communities safe is to make sure that when prisoners go out they have the best opportunity to get gainful employment look after their families and lead a sensible and successful life that does not include prison. 
I am open to any ideas and I have to say to the Opposition and to Mr Chauvel that consultation goes both ways. I opened my door and talked to you and made you the offer to come and talk to me about things like strip-searching. I said: “Come and tell me your ideas. I am open to those ideas.” Not a telephone call— 
Charles Chauvel 
: When was that? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: You sat in my office— 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: No you can’t request it Charles. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Yes. You sat in my office. Consultation is about communication both ways. It is not just going out and putting your ideas out and saying: “What do you think of that?”. There has to be a response and I got none. So it is all very well to come into the Chamber and make speeches after the bill has been right through the select committee consideration but actually the opportunity was given and not taken. 
Those are the points I wanted to make about the questions that have been raised. First of all Public Service requirements will apply to Serco and do apply and the Minister is accountable for its performance. I think that is the ultimate—the ultimate—response for this House to take advantage of.