Parker David: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeParker David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 28 May 2015. Volume:705;Page:4108. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) to the Minister of Foreign Affairs: Did he seek advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade about whether using the multimillion-dollar payment for the benefit of Hamood Al Ali Al Khalaf—a Saudi Arabian businessman—to cause the Saudi Arabian officials to advance the GCC FTA which had stalled breached the OECD Convention on Combating Bribery of Foreign Public Officials in International Business Transactions?Hon MURRAY McCULLY (Minister of Foreign Affairs): Not specifically but officials confirmed that the transaction was lawful and within the scope of the ministry’s appropriation.Hon David Parker: If as he has already acknowledged he sought no advice on the OECD convention on bribery and no proper legal advice on the threatened lawsuit from Al Khalaf Group does that not show he wanted to keep this pay-off under the table and avoid proper scrutiny by officials and by the Cabinet?Hon MURRAY McCULLY: A requirement of the convention that the member refers to is to have a domestic law that gives effect to the convention in New Zealand. I am satisfied that the ministry would have been aware of this in assuring me that the transaction was lawful.Hon David Parker: I seek leave to table the OECD convention on bribery which covers pecuniary advantage to a third party in order to get a public—Mr SPEAKER: It is possibly freely available but on the basis that the House can determine it I will put the leave to table this particular copy of this convention. Is there any objection to it being tabled? There is not. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Hon David Parker: Why is there no record of this first multimillion-dollar deal with this Saudi businessman ever having been announced when all other ventures are always proudly announced by him or his National Government colleagues?Hon MURRAY McCULLY: There have been various references to the establishment of the Saudi hub over the last couple of years.Hon David Parker: I seek leave to table a 26-page list in typewritten script of all of Mr McCully’s releases since 2012 that relate to—Mr SPEAKER: No those releases are available to all members. Is there a supplementary question?Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I was not seeking to release the releases; I was seeking to release the list of all the releases none of which include these matters.Mr SPEAKER: No the point of tabling a document as I have explained many times is to further inform the House. What I think the member is attempting to do is make a political point. That is not the purpose of tabling. I am not putting the leave. Does the member wish to ask a further supplementary question?Hon David Parker: Can he assure the House that neither the Saudi officials with links to the Al Khalaf group nor anyone in the Al Khalaf group had any involvement in the tender process for the second deal—the $6 million model farm deal?Hon MURRAY McCULLY: The arrangements with regard to the $6 million and the establishment of the hub were undertaken by New Zealand Trade and Enterprise in full according to its normal practices.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: I am going to invite the member to repeat the question because it has not been addressed.Hon David Parker: Thank you Mr Speaker. Can he assure the House that neither the Saudi officials with links to the Al Khalaf group nor anyone in the Al Khalaf group had any involvement in the tender process for the second deal—the $6 million model farm deal?Hon MURRAY McCULLY: I just want to be clear that I have no ministerial responsibility for trade and enterprise and therefore cannot give the precise answer that he requests. But I can say—Hon David Parker: You fund it.Hon MURRAY McCULLY: —that is correct—that to the best of my understanding that is the case.Hon David Parker: Has he received any reports that his unethical behaviour—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is going to end up with the question being ruled out of order. I invite the member to ask the question without that imputation.Hon David Parker: Has he received any reports that this behaviour has set such a low standard that other organisations operating in the Middle East using Government-funded businesses have also been tainted?Hon MURRAY McCULLY: I have received a number of reports suggesting that it is a matter of great regret to the New Zealand business community that it had in place before 2008 a Government that was prepared to mislead investors in this country and it required this Government to try to find a resolution. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is this is a supplementary question from Fletcher Tabuteau?Fletcher Tabuteau: Yes it is.Mr SPEAKER: Then you need to call.Fletcher Tabuteau: Thank you Mr Speaker. Can the Minister clarify for the House that it was never actually this National Government that entered into a contractual agreement to supply Mr Al Khalaf live sheep for him to export back to Saudi Arabia before it was done in the form of compensation?Mr SPEAKER: If you want the question repeated I can get it repeated.Hon MURRAY McCULLY: Thank you.Mr SPEAKER: Because it was quite a complex question could the question be repeated? [Interruption] And could I have some silence on my right-hand side?Fletcher Tabuteau: I just want clarification to establish that it was never actually the Government that entered into a contractual agreement to supply Mr Al Khalaf live sheep for him to export back to Saudi Arabia before it actually became a compensation exercise.Hon MURRAY McCULLY: I hope I am addressing the question that the member is trying to ask. If he is asking me whether the original business that Mr Al Khalaf was involved in was business with the New Zealand Government the answer to that is no. The issues that have arisen with Mr Al Khalaf relate to events more recently as a result of the change to Government policy.Hon David Parker: In light of his answer to my last supplementary question to him is he aware that every Prime Minister Deputy Prime Minister Minister of Trade Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Agriculture in the Clark Government going back to 2005—that is Messrs Clark Cullen Peters Goff and Anderton—have all confirmed that they never once had an approach from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade in respect of the allegations he said were behind his facilitation payment?Mr SPEAKER: The Hon Murray McCully if he has the knowledge to answer that.Hon MURRAY McCULLY: What I am prepared to say is that the statement made in the Cabinet paper I released about the concerns that Mr Al Khalaf raised about being misled were verified by me by looking back over the history of this matter but some of the references were redacted from the paper because I wanted to remove material that would be prejudicial to New Zealand’s interests so I will not take that matter any further than that.Hon David Parker: Has he heard of any complaints about how the New Zealand Middle East Business Council which is part-funded by the Government has been operating; if so what are those complaints he has heard of?Hon MURRAY McCULLY: No I have not.Fletcher Tabuteau: Given the answer to my earlier supplementary question is this then a precursor of the investor States dispute settlement clauses within the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement for example—we have not even signed a free-trade agreement with the Middle East and yet the Government is being sued by foreign business because this Government exercised its sovereign right to implement our own laws?Hon MURRAY McCULLY: That question might more properly be addressed to my colleague the Minister of Trade and should the member ask it I am sure he will get a lengthy and very interesting answer.James Shaw: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table my letter today to the Auditor-General for her to investigate procedural improprieties with the contracts—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Again that is not going to inform the members of the House. That is simply an attempt to make a political point.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I waited until the end Mr Speaker. In one of his answers earlier the Minister of Foreign Affairs Murray McCully indicated he had no ministerial responsibility for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. The previous position of the House and the previous rules of the House have been that where a Minister delegates one of their functions to an Associate Minister the primary Minister still remains answerable and accountable to the House for that delegation.Hon Steven Joyce: Speaking to the point of order.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will hear from the Hon Steven Joyce.Hon Steven Joyce: My understanding is that New Zealand Trade and Enterprise is overseen by the Minister of Trade and the Minister for Economic Development not the Minister of Foreign Affairs.Mr SPEAKER: And that is certainly my understanding.Hon Trevor Mallard: Their web page which of course I am not seeking to table does indicate that the Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs is one of three Ministers responsible: Mr Groser Mr Joyce and Mr McClay who is down as Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs.Hon Steven Joyce: Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: No I do not need further assistance but I do appreciate the points that have been raised. At the end of the day the matter that is important here is for the Minister to be responsible for his answers. He has made an answer to this House. If he regrets that he has got the ability to change it. If other members think that it has been an answer deliberately misleading the House they also have a process.