King Annette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
King Annette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 18 November 2009. Volume:659;Page:7761. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
3.  
Hon ANNETTE KING (Deputy Leader—Labour) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development and Employment 
: What definition if any did her Associate Minister Hon Tariana Turia provide to her to explain the purpose and intended outcomes of the Whanau Ora programme? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
: 
 I have had many discussions with Minister Turia on the definitions of Whanau Ora. The member does not understand that it is not a programme; it is a way of working that leads towards positive outcomes for whanau independence and positive well-being. Frankly the integrated provision of health education and social services for all New Zealanders is something Labour talked endlessly about but never accomplished. This Government is working towards it. 
Hon Annette King 
: Does she stand by her statement that she does not envisage carving off a billion dollars to go into that sort of scheme; if so where will her Associate Minister get the billion dollars she has claimed will fund the Whanau Ora programme? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: We are still working through developments on how that programme will come together. I can say that is looking really positive. What I have said is that under Labour welfare dependency increased; sickness invalid and domestic purposes benefit numbers went up; and abuse and neglect of children increased. What Labour did in the past did not work; Whanau Ora has the potential to work. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is the Minister deaf? I called for order several times. She continued to give an answer that was absolutely irrelevant to the question asked. It is unnecessary. 
Hon Annette King 
: Does the Minister agree with her Associate Minister that “to be quite frank with you there’s probably a billion dollars already being wasted now”; if so what programmes or initiatives is her ministry wasting millions of dollars on and will these programmes be cut to make way for the new Whanau Ora programme? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: We are looking at value for money for every taxpayer dollar that this Government is putting in and we make no apologies for it. I tell members that our ministries are excited about the prospect of Whanau Ora this Government is excited about the prospects of Whanau Ora and we believe that it can make a positive difference for all families. We will continue to work towards that. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: What does the Whanau Ora taskforce say about the current delivery mechanisms and the outcomes for Maori? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: The taskforce discussion document states: “Despite Government investment across a number of sectors the results for whanau are often disappointing.” It continues: “The taskforce is not convinced that whanau and taxpayers are getting value for money or that the efforts of Government are matched by the measurable gains for whanau.” That is what we need to address. 
Hon Annette King 
: What has she done to convince her Government colleagues to now support separate and identified funding for Maori service provision something that members opposite opposed when in Opposition and called race-based funding; and how did she convince Tony Ryall to agree to the Whanau Ora programme when only a short time ago he said that race-based funding had to come to an immediate end? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: What that member does not recognise is that Whanau Ora has the potential to be good for all families for all New Zealanders. Through a different delivery mechanism we will see positive outcomes; we will see changes that we did not see in the 9 years of the Labour Government which just piled programme on top of programme. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Tena koe. Kia ora tatou. Kei te hangai pu te Whanau Ora ki nga ratonga hauora ki nga ratonga whakahiato ora noa iho? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Is Whanau Ora just about health and social services? 
] 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: No. Whanau Ora is focused on re-empowering families to take responsibility for themselves. It is about the contribution that iwi hapu communities and extended whanau make to family outcomes. Maori economic development contributes to Whanau Ora as do the services associated with health social services housing justice the community and voluntary sector and education. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Dr Rajen Prasad. [ 
Interruption 
] I apologise to the member but if his own front-bench colleagues would only be quiet so that we could hear the supplementary question from Dr Rajen Prasad I would be obliged. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. As the person who asked the question I unfortunately did not catch pretty much half of the delivery from the Minister. I just could not hear it from here. Is it possible to have a rerun of the end part? I did not hear it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: In fairness I—[ 
Interruption 
] A point of order is being dealt with. I do not know what was in the lunch that some members had today. [ 
Interruption 
] Has the Hon Paula Bennett quite finished? I say to the honourable member that I could hear the Minister’s answer reasonably clearly. 
Dr Rajen Prasad 
: Did she see the reported comments at the weekend from her Associate Minister the Hon Tariana Turia that the Minister’s views on the “whanau first” policy a key aspect of Whanau Ora are hugely controversial; if so what discussions has she had with her Associate Minister and have they decided which social services will be covered by the Whanau Ora interventions framework? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Actually that statement was factually incorrect. What I can tell the member is that we have some real challenges ahead of us as a country on how we deal with our abused and neglected children. 
Carmel Sepuloni 
: Blah-blah-blah. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Sorry what was that? The member does not see it as being important? 
Carmel Sepuloni 
: You heard me. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Has she got a problem with that? 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not entirely sure what happened during that interchange but after a question from the member Rajen Prasad the Minister looked at somebody made a comment then sat down. We did not get a complete answer to the question that had been put by Dr— 
Hon Tau Henare 
: No. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Mr Henare keeps interjecting during everyone’s— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I ask the House please to come to a little more order today. It is not very tidy at all. What happened—in answer to the honourable member’s question—was that the Minister simply disagreed with the statement contained in the member’s question. I think she then felt that she had continued on for long enough. So I think the matter was dealt with. I was just waiting for the House to settle down. 
Dr Rajen Prasad 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The term “hugely controversial” was attributed to the honourable Minister in the— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I realise that the member has not been here for many years but he cannot use the point of order process to litigate a question in that way. The Minister— 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Actually it was I who said it was hugely controversial. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am on my feet; I just do not know what has got into members today. Where the member asking a question inserts a statement into the question and the Minister refutes the statement the question has been answered—because the Minister has refuted the statement. It cannot be litigated by way of point of order. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Kei te tautoko ia i te kaupapa Whanau Ora? 
[An interpretation in English was given to the House.] 
[ 
Does she support the Whanau Ora approach? 
] 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Of course I do. Whanau Ora has the potential to transform whanau in an unprecedented way. It is consistent with my goals—and this Government’s—of having service providers working together more effectively for whanau. I also strongly support anything that encourages families to take responsibility for themselves.