12. Question No. 12—EmploymentDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of EmploymentQuestion No. 12—Employment12. Dr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of Employment: Which employment programmes have been the most effective and what is the average return on investment across all the programmes? Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment): Talofa lava. Can I first of all congratulate that member on his new seat. It's good to see the promotion happening in the National Party and hopefully he keeps it. That's a very good question—a very good question and a very important one. I want to be—SPEAKER: OK—OK. Sorry I was temporarily diverted. The member will resume his seat. The member will now start his answer again without the gratuitous flicks. Hon WILLIE JACKSON: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. I thank the member for the question and it's an important one. I want to be clear: I don't have ministerial responsibility for all employment programmes across the breadth of the Government. It's a team on this side of the House who are invested in employment right across the spectrum. In terms of the first part of the question though for the programmes I am responsible for both Mana in Mahi and He Poutama Rangatahi (HPR) they are equally effective as they are designed to improve employment pathways for groups of New Zealanders who have generally faced poor employment outcomes and they are succeeding. In terms of the second part of the question Mana in Mahi is still a new programme and many participants are still completing their first year. I am aware however that work is under way to measure the return in terms of investment. For He Poutama Rangatahi though we do not only measure success by dollars spent versus dollars saved. Our estimate of the cost benefit for HPR is for every $1 spent the saving is $2.60. This is because the programmes work to expand the local work-ready force increase local income and reduce young people's reliance on Government support. Sadly the members opposite see investment in our people and communities as a transactional dollar figure while on this side of the House the investment is all about communities and the people at all times. Dr Shane Reti: Which of his employment programmes will best transition redundant Air New Zealand crew into manual work? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: As I said earlier in my answer I don't have responsibilities for some of those programmes. That's an area that I am not working on at the moment. Dr Shane Reti: What percentage of women who have lost jobs in women-dominant industries such as hairdressing will use his $100 million forestry programme to transition into forestry? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: The $100 million programme is not my programme. Dr Shane Reti: Has he only taken one new employment programme to Cabinet during the four weeks of level 4 because—in his words—I think this lockdown for four weeks has been brilliant. Another week's not going to hurt or destroy anyone"? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: As that member well knows I retracted those words during that shambolic pandemic committee that was chaired by the previous Māori leader of the National Party. Dr Shane Reti: When he described his employment programmes in those terms to the Epidemic Response Committee by saying that most Kiwis are able to participate in the employment market organically what are the criteria for organic participation? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: As that member well knows when I came into this job the economy was in a reasonable state but vulnerable groups were missing out: Māori—who that member should be standing up for instead of putting National Party questions forward—ethnic communities Pasifika and the disability groups were all missing out and I'll stand up for those groups at all times. Those are the people who this side of the House cares about. Those are the people who we will continue to fight for and shame on that member for not standing up for his people. Dr Shane Reti: When he said yesterday that he would get back with the number of workers redeployed in his $100 million forestry programme what is that number? Hon WILLIE JACKSON: I should have said yesterday that I'm not responsible for that programme—my mistake. As I said earlier it's a programme that the Hon Phil Twyford is responsible for and I'm sure he'll come back—he'll come back. But I remind the Opposition that it's not about dollars all the time; it's about the people the people the people."