Kedgley Sue: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled  Speaker Recalled In Committee Procedure 
Kedgley Sue: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Procedure Referral to Health Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled  Speaker Recalled In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:613;Page:9990] 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 I want to talk about the— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Diabetes. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: That is right. I want to talk about a provision in Part 3 but before I do so I want to respond to a couple of comments that have been made in this debate to date. The first one I would like to refer to is Peter Dunne’s comment that if we pass this law we will become a laughing stock. I would like to contemplate for a moment whether California has become a laughing stock. As I recall the  
Holmes 
 show interviewed people who said it is fantastic. Is Norway about to become a laughing stock? Is Ireland? Is New York? 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member but I say to members on the cross benches that under Speaker’s ruling 53/4 they should please note that it is convention not to interject in the cross benches. It muffles the microphone of the person speaking. 
Dail Jones 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I accept your ruling of course but if we are invited by the member to respond to her clearly we must respond. After all this particular part of the Chamber is very well filled by members. It is a shame the other sections of the Chamber are not similarly well filled. It is therefore not surprising that our views will be heard better than others. If she desists from asking us questions we will desist from responding especially when the questions are so stupid. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: A point of order will be heard in silence. I refer members to Speaker’s ruling 16/6. I call Rodney Hide. 
Dail Jones 
: I had not finished my point of order Mr Chairperson. You allowed Mr Hide to stand up and start a point of order and now you are having a go at me. 
Rodney Hide 
: I certainly do know those Standing Orders but I make the point that when a member on his or her feet calls out and asks for a response and that response is not provided then that member on his or her feet is perfectly entitled to say that members cannot answer and then use it as part of the rhetoric and propaganda of his or her speech. If the member invited a comment as my learned colleague pointed out it is a bit rich for the Chair to admonish those of us who were responding. If we sit here like little lambs Ms Kedgley might think that we support the wacky ideas she is supporting here tonight. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: It had better be a fresh point of order Mr Dunne. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: The speech being made by the member is actually out of order. Given your familiarity with Speakers’ rulings and Standing Orders you will be aware that it is not in order for a member during the course of his or her speech to pose it in such a way that it is a series of questions. That is precisely what the member was doing and is what caused the reaction you properly took exception to. I might add that your comment about muffled sound presumably applies to the sponsor of the bill who is sitting to next to you applauding. It must have had the same effect on your microphone as the interjections from the members in this quarter of the Chamber that you took objection to. The issue is about a series of questions being posed during the course of a speech which has long been held to be out of order because it invites disorder by way of response. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I have already ruled on this point of order Mr Hide. 
Rodney Hide 
: This is absolutely a new one. I have two. The first point of order is that you have been very hard on members who are opposed to this bill being within the confines of Part 3. I would like to know when Ms Kedgley was speaking to Part 3 as you never pulled her up. You were very hard on members on the cross benches because of the muffling effect on the microphone. I note that you have said nothing about the member in the chair beside you chipping in over the microphone which we could hear very clearly. It seems to me that you have to apply the rules consistently in both cases. I make the final point that there has been a series of points of order and you have not ruled on them. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank Mr Hide for drawing that to my attention. The problem is that the issue was getting quite noisy. I myself was unable to hear what the honourable member was saying. I also want to rule on the issue of the person sitting beside me interjecting on a live microphone. In Committee members in charge of legislation shall not take an unfair advantage of a live microphone by way of interjection. It is good conduct and common courtesy not to do so and courtesy is contagious. We all prosper if we keep within the spirit of our Standing Orders and Speakers’ rulings. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: As I was saying the other place that has similar legislation is New York. There was an article in the  
New Zealand Herald  
by someone who was very sceptical about the legislation there and was determined that he would dislike it. He stated that there was just one problem: it works. Its impact has been magnificent. It has been truly wonderful reclaiming the city from smokers who almost never act considerately. The fact is that the ban works in New York and it will elsewhere. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I do not know what we have to do to draw your attention to this matter but what on earth has what happens in New York and what someone thinks about New York and this legislation got to do with Part 3? If you are going to allow Sue Kedgley to debate in such a wide-ranging way then that is all right for a third reading speech but not for the Committee stage on Part 3— 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you Mr Hide. 
Rodney Hide 
: I have not finished. You have consistently pulled us up waved your arms around and disrupted us. You are sitting there and smiling like a cherub because Sue Kedgley is speaking. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I take exception to that. The member will now stand withdraw and apologise. 
Rodney Hide 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I remind the member speaking that this is a wide debate but relevant to the part. I accept that she has strayed a little as happened with the previous speaker so would she come back to the party on Part 3. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: The reason I was drawing that example was— 
Simon Power 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I apologise to the member and it may be a matter of my lapse of concentration but I was not sure whether you ruled on the Hon Peter Dunne’s point about a series of questions. I wonder whether the Hon Peter Dunne was right in his interpretation of Standing Orders and I would not mind some guidance on it. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: In the words of Mr Prebble I can assist members here. If members refer to Speakers’ ruling 39/6—one made by the eminent Mr Barnard in 1936 the other by Sir Matthew Oram in 1952: “A member may not direct a continuous series of questions during a speech to members on the opposite side of the House.” That was precisely the point I was drawing attention to. Mr Power is quite correct; you did not rule on that. I now invite you to draw to the attention of the member speaking and to every other member the ruling of those two eminent Speakers that a member may not direct a continuous series of questions during a speech to members on the opposite side of the House. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I say to the member that any questions should be directed through the Chair. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: As I was saying I made that point because other speeches had said that New Zealand would be a laughing stock. I said that far from being a laughing stock we have been encouraged to follow other nations that have been held up as wonderful examples to us. The arguments of many of those opponents of the bill would stand up were it not for the fact— 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson— 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member is trifling with the Chair. 
Rodney Hide 
: I am not trifling with the Chair. I say to you that if we tried that we would not get away with it. What has this got to do with Part 3? 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member is replying to some of the criticisms made under Speaker’s ruling 38/1 and I am allowing her a certain amount of time to do that. But she must bring her speech to this part of the bill. 
Dail Jones 
: Point of order— 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I am making a ruling Mr Jones. The member must bring her speech to the point. It is a wide debate but it must be relevant to this part. The member has had enough time to respond to other arguments so would she please now come to the point. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. While you were ruling the member to my left Ms Sue Kedgley called out in an unparliamentary way on your ruling and said it was pathetic. I think I had to withdraw— 
Sue Kedgley 
: I said you were pathetic not the Chair. 
Rodney Hide 
: Well she is now saying that I am pathetic. How many times do we have to explain to this member that when the chairperson is speaking we should not have someone calling out “You’re pathetic!”? I have to say that she was not looking at me; she was looking at you sir. I think she should withdraw and apologise. I was asked to withdraw and apologise just for saying that you were a small cherub. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you. If the member made such remarks to the Chair then she should stand withdraw and apologise. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: Well I did not so I will not. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I call the honourable member Sue Kedgley. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: I wonder what the next interjection will be— 
Rodney Hide 
: She will get one right now! I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. You well know that after being pulled up on a point of order a member taking the call is not allowed to refer to it at all. I would like you to rule accordingly. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member had only just started and had been speaking for only about 2 seconds. I am listening very carefully to what she has to say. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I am seeking just a bit of clarification on the consistency of rulings from the Chair. Can I draw your attention to an incident that happened in the House yesterday when an honourable colleague of mine Mr Edwin Perry who does such a tremendous job in the Wairarapa was thrown out of the House for interjecting whilst a point of order was being taken and simply saying “Hear! Hear!”. Now we have a member who has admitted—and you yourself have noted—an interjection whilst a point of order was being taken not once not twice but three times. Yet you now consider it acceptable that she should remain in the Chamber. I would hate the Committee and all listeners to gain the impression that the Chair is somewhat biased against New Zealand First so possibly in order to prevent such a perception taking hold we could have consistency in rulings and that member could be invited to leave the Chamber. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Yesterday that ruling was taken with regard to Speaker’s ruling 123/7 which is to do with there being no interjections while questions are taking place. Ms Kedgley had only just risen to her feet and had been speaking for only a matter of seconds when there was another point of order. I am prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. I take her word as an honourable member. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. In respect of what you just said the exiting of my colleague Edwin Perry yesterday was not to do with question time. It was to do with a point of order I was taking when seeking that the Minister answer the question. I have never seen such an outrage in my life in Parliament and I have never seen such a unique circumstance in my time in Parliament. My colleague Mr Mark is pointing out the terrible inconsistency where much worse is being done than just the utterance of the words “Hear! Hear!”. That is hardly an interjection; it is actually an expression of support. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank the member. I cannot relitigate what was done yesterday and I recognise the situation we are in. I would now like to call the honourable member Sue Kedgley to finish her speech. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: Referring once again as I have previously to points that have been made in debate one of the issues I want to speak about is ventilation systems. The Green Party was very attracted by the issue of ventilation systems— 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I have never seen in my time in Parliament—which is short compared with that of Mr Peters but he may care to back me up—a person on his or her feet so repeatedly defying the Chair. You have said time and time again that it is Part 3 but now we are hearing about ventilation systems for goodness’ sake! This is not a third reading speech; it is Part 3—[ 
Interruption 
] Now she is interrupting me while I am on my feet giving a point of order. I resent the fact that on the four times I have got up to take a point of order you have done nothing. If it were a New Zealand First an ACT or a National MP he or she would not get one chance but as it is a Green MP it is all OK because the Greens are supporting the Government on this bill. I think it is a disgrace— 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank the member but I am on my feet. I ask the honourable member to withdraw and apologise. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: I was asking my colleague whether ventilation systems were included in Part 3. If you wish me to withdraw and apologise for that I will. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: This part is not about ventilation; it is about signage. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I am about to support Sue Kedgley which will be rare and unique. She was responding—[ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Can I ask for order during a point of order. 
Rodney Hide 
: No because you don’t throw her out when she interjects. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I tell Mr Hide that he now has his first yellow card under Speaker’s ruling—[ 
Interruption 
] Leave the Chamber! 
Rodney Hide 
: Good. It just shows the difference. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Just go! 
Rodney Hide withdrew from the Chamber. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: The point the member raised was in response to comments I made regarding my amendment to insert new clause 11A in Part 3 of the bill. New clause 11A inserts a new section 39A in the principal Act: “Minimum air quality standard”. Much as it pains me to have to do it I am forced to agree with Sue Kedgley that she was commenting on matters contained in that part. While I would profoundly disagree with what she is about to say she does have a right to say it. I think that when you reflect upon the content of the bill and the amendments to this part you will come to the same conclusion and allow her to continue for whatever time remains addressing this particular point. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you very much Mr Dunne. I appreciate your consideration and wise counsel. 
SUE KEDGLEY 
: I was referring precisely to the comments Peter Dunne had made about ventilation systems. I was referring to the fact that the Green Party had been very attracted by the idea of having air quality standards and that we had several caucus discussions about whether that could work but the truth is it could not.