Copeland Gordon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Copeland Gordon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:646;Page:15795] 
8.  
GORDON COPELAND (Independent) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: Does he have confidence in the ability of the Refugee Status Appeals Authority to make accurate judgments concerning the genuineness or otherwise of an applicant’s conversion to Christianity; if so why? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 I have confidence in the Refugee Status Appeals Authority to make sound balanced and fact-based decisions on all facets of the appeals it considers because it is an internationally respected body independent of officials politicians and interest groups. 
Gordon Copeland 
: Why then in a number of recent decisions has the Refugee Status Appeals Authority expressed doubts about the genuineness of the conversion to Christianity of Iranians seeking asylum in New Zealand in spite of detailed evidence to the contrary from clergy and pastoral workers from the Catholic Anglican Presbyterian and Pentecostal Churches that authenticates those conversions? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Refugee status does not depend on the genuineness of a religious conversion. A refugee is a person who has a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of for instance race religion nationality membership of a particular social group or political opinion and who is unable or owing to such fear unwilling to return to a country. We are reliant on the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees for advice. We are reliant on the members of the Refugee Status Appeals Authority as independent individuals to make those judgments. They assess all the facts. They receive representations from qualified and unqualified stakeholders and they make decisions in an independent way. 
Gordon Copeland 
: Is the Minister’s Government in light of the Iranian Government’s decision in February to proceed with legislation to mandate the death penalty for apostates from Islam—the bill was tabled in this House last Thursday—and New Zealand’s commitment to freedom of religion including the freedom to change one’s religion prepared to follow the lead of the Dutch British Canadian and Australian Governments and consider a moratorium on the deportation to Iran of Christian converts; will the Minister consider that? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: We are governed by the advice of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees not vested interest groups and not representations from others though they are taken into account. To date despite what the member says the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees does not support the contention that Christians face these dangers if returned to Iran. However if it was to be the case that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees changed its view—it has a view for instance that it is inappropriate to return folk to certain countries like Somalia Iraq and other places unless there are exceptional circumstances—then of course New Zealand being governed by its international obligations would indeed consider that change. I note though that the UK Germany the Netherlands Australia and other countries have faced similar issues of repatriating Iranians who have hindered their departure. These countries have found that Iranians who are returned to Iran are unlikely despite their alleged conversion to Christianity or other claims to be subjected to persecution. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: How genuine would a refugee’s conversion be if it was discovered that for example she had converted within an airport in Thailand on her way through to New Zealand then had come directly here then had claimed that her conversion would prejudice her future or endanger her and when her brother did the same thing and has since been back to Iran five times by aircraft; can the Minister confirm whether Dr Coleman or Mr Copeland has supported this woman called Bahareh Moradi whose name was raised in the House last week and who is an alleged bigamist? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: In general terms I can say that there have indeed been cases where migrants en route to a destination including New Zealand have miraculously converted in airport grounds to a particular religion—and I speak as an old Irish Catholic like Mr Copeland—allegedly in order to gain refugee status here. I say also in respect of the previous supplementary question that although I have deep respect for pastors ministers of religion and priests they are not immigration officers nor refugee status officers nor appeal authority members. I find it somewhat difficult even though I have respect for those ministers of religion to accept that they could make some miraculous judgment as to the legitimacy of a person’s conversion if that person had converted en route at an airport. As to the second part of the latest question I can only state that I do not have responsibility for the representations that members make but I repeat what I said I think last week: if members such as Mr Coleman can assist then we would welcome that. We expect that of all members. As I say— 
Ron Mark 
: Smoke ’em out. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Yes he does have some expertise in smoking people out. 
Gordon Copeland 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a document from an international justice advocate Bryan Johnson setting out the reasons why Christian converts from Iran cannot safely return to that country. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Keith Locke 
: I seek leave to table the detailed exposition in the  
North Shore Times  
by Ms Bahareh Moradi’s pastor of how over 3 years she has had a genuine conversion to Christianity 
. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.