Scott Lynda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Scott Lynda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:608;Page:5997] 
11.  
Dr LYNDA SCOTT (NZ National—Kaikoura) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Does she agree with Pharmac’s press release on the change from 1-monthly to 3-monthly dispensing of medicines by pharmacists that the proposal “has the full support of all district health boards”; if so why? 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Acting Minister of Health) 
: 
 Yes I do agree with that statement. Pharmac’s understanding was confirmed in a press release by Graeme Edmond speaking on behalf of all district health boards where he said that a proposal to change the way some medicines are dispensed by pharmacies is being welcomed by all district health boards and I foreshadow tabling that document. I am further aware that at least one district health board the Nelson-Marlborough board is making a submission on the proposal. I have been advised that this submission does not oppose the proposal but of course the board is most certainly entitled to make a submission. 
Dr Lynda Scott 
: Is it true that district health board chief executives were told not to pass on the information to board members and pharmacists as alleged by Pharmacy Guild representative David Ross yesterday when the Nelson Marlborough District Health Board voted unanimously to oppose the proposal; and does that not make an absolute mockery of the role of district health boards and their members? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The member may be very surprised to know that the acting chief executive of the Nelson Marlborough District Health Board has confirmed that for once the  
Marlborough Express 
 was incorrect. 
Steve Chadwick 
: What are the benefits for district health boards of the Pharmac proposal? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Pharmac is consulting on a proposal that would allow district health boards to invest an additional $35 million in improving health services. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Has the Minister read a submission from the Kensington Pharmacy in Northland that says the change to 3-monthly dispensing of medicines would have catastrophic effects on the populations of Northland and force the closure of a substantial number of pharmacies; and what will she do if Pharmac bulldozes ahead with its proposal and a substantial number of pharmacies in Northland and around New Zealand do close down? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: That is not a matter of ministerial responsibility. Pharmac makes the decision. 
Sue Kedgley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was what would happen if pharmacies around New Zealand were to close down. That is the Minister of Health’s responsibility not the responsibility of Pharmac. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes I think the Minister could briefly comment on that point. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: It is not actually a Minister’s responsibility whether any individual pharmacy in any part of the country closes but the member will be well aware that not just the Minister of Health but probably all members of this House are very concerned to ensure that all New Zealand citizens have high-quality access to primary health services including pharmacies. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Hon Ruth Dyson in her previous answer said that she was not responsible for Pharmac— 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: No I did not say that. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Yes she did. Well I want to make it very plain that she should have— 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I did not say that. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Mr Speaker I was kicked out twice for— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes I realise that. My problem with the Minister who should not be interjecting on a point of order is that this is her question; that is the reason I am allowing her to remain. As soon as her question is over she will leave. The member had better come to his point of order because I myself certainly do not recall what he is claiming. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: My point of order is very simply that it is not possible for the Minister of Health to say that she is not responsible for Pharmac when it is very clearly the case that she is accountable in this House for Pharmac’s activities. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is now I think the fourth time today that you have ruled that a point of order is not a point of order. I have been listening at times to question time and we are now having at least a dozen points of order ruled out as simply not being points of order. At what point do people who raise points of order that are not relevant and are not points of order actually suffer some kind of penalty? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will answer that immediately. I listen to points of order because some members genuinely do have points of order and I listen to them very seriously. I know however that there are points of order that are raised because they are political. I have raised them myself before I became Speaker. Yes I did— 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Oh very rarely. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Very rarely; Mr Prebble I agree with you. I just urge members that they should raise genuine points of order and I take the spirit of the House that we do so but I warn people that we do have to make sure that a point of order is a point of order. 
Judy Turner 
: Is the Minister concerned about the ethical and legal implications of the timing of Pharmac’s announcement coming as it has after contracts with the district health boards have been concluded? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: No. 
Dr Lynda Scott 
: Does the Minister stand by her statement in the House on 7 May that “… a doctor can decide that they”—pharmaceuticals—“are to be dispensed every day every week or every month.”; and if she does stand by that statement will pharmacists be paid a dispensing fee for every time they dispense a medication according to the doctor’s orders? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: In answer to the first part of the question I say “Yes” and in answer to the second part I say “No”. 
Judy Turner 
: Can the Minister inform the House whether Pharmac’s consultation process has yielded a favourable response to the proposal from pharmacists; if not do they have any recourse for their objection? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I am not aware of the result of the submissions. The submission time has not closed yet but that information will be made available I am sure by Pharmac at the appropriate time. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave of the House to table a statement made by Mr Damien O’Connor an Associate Minister of Health expressing his strong opposition to the Pharmac proposals in respect of stack dispensing. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: As foreshadowed in the answer to the primary question I seek leave to table the statement made by Graeme Edmond on behalf of all district health boards welcoming the proposal. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Ruth Dyson withdrew from the Chamber. 
Dr Lynda Scott 
: I seek leave to table a press release from Pharmac stating that it is consulting on the proposal which has the full support of all district health boards. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not clear. Was the Hon Ruth Dyson asked to withdraw from the Chamber at the end of her question— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes and she has. 
Rodney Hide 
: My understanding was that one could be asked only to leave immediately— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member is wrong. I have authority as Chair to do that. I thought it was important that she stay because she was answering questions and members of the Opposition wanted to keep asking her questions. I judged that she should stay.