Moroney Sue: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
Moroney Sue: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
[Volume:648;Page:17660] 
SUE MORONEY (Labour) 
: 
 We now know the words that Crosby/Textor has given to the National Party to use for its industrial relations policy—“fair and reasonable”. How many times did Dr Mapp feel forced to say those words in that 5-minute speech—that tirade about how terrible things are in industrial relations here in New Zealand. Well look—all New Zealanders know I tell Dr Mapp that peace has broken out in industrial relations in New Zealand under Labour. Not only have we had the most peaceful workplaces we have had for a long time in this country under Labour and the fairest workplaces we have had for a long time but we have also managed to bring the unemployment rate down to the second lowest in the OECD. When the member talks about Labour and industrial relations he is taking his words from Crosby/Textor and talking about “fair and reasonable” as often as he can. But how fair and reasonable can it be to take away workers’ rights in the most vulnerable time of their employment which is the first 90 days of employment? 
Oh but National will do that only for small businesses. Well I do not know whether National members have spoken lately to any people who operate small businesses around the country but they must be completely out of touch because when I talk to those people can members guess what they say their No. 1 problem is? Their No. 1 problem is getting skilled staff to apply for their jobs. I ask Dr Mapp whether that is right. Their No. 1 problem is getting skilled staff for their jobs. But under National’s policy—guess what? Can members guess what will happen under National’s policy? People who are skilled will determine not to apply for jobs with small employers because they will know that under National they will lose all their employment rights for the first 90 days. That is National’s big plan to help out small businesses but it will take those businesses further backwards. How out of touch is that? It is not only out of touch with what small businesses need but also out of touch with New Zealanders and their understanding of fairness and reasonableness. They know that a business having the right to sack workers for no reason at all—for any reason or for no reason at all—during the first 90 days is not the New Zealand way I tell Dr Mapp. It is not fair it is not reasonable and New Zealanders do not want that type of unfairness in their workplace. 
What New Zealand workplaces have thrived on is the types of fair policies that have been brought in under this Labour Government the ones that we are continuing to bring in and the ones we are still looking for such as making sure that workers actually get their legal entitlement to have meal breaks and rest periods and that they are also able to breast-feed in the workplace. These are the sorts of progressive polices that workers and employers are looking for in their workplaces—not those old-style “take away workers’ rights” policies that have always been the National Party’s view of how productivity is driven up. Last time National was in power it thought the way to increase productivity was to drive up unemployment. That was its plan for increasing productivity and it put a wage freeze on in this country. That is in fact what happened during the 1990s. I used to represent low-paid workers whose wages went down over the course of the 1990s because the National Government took their penal rates away. The penal rates of low-paid women workers were taken away by National. 
Those are just the tired old worn-out policies that that party is bringing back. National will take away workers’ rights and reduce their incomes all in the name perhaps of pretending to increase productivity. Well we have been there before we know what it looks like and New Zealand workers and workplaces do not want it. And small businesses do not want to get into a position where no one will apply for their jobs because those workers are so concerned about being sacked for no reason at all in the first 90 days. 
A party vote was called for on the question that Vote Labour be agreed to. 
Ayes 60 
New Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; United Future 2; Progressive 1; Independent: Field. 
Noes 49 
New Zealand National 48; Independent: Copeland. 
Abstentions 9 
Green Party 5; Maori Party 4.