1. Question No. 1—Workplace Relations and SafetyCHRIS BAILLIE (ACT) to the Minister for Workplace Relations and SafetyORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Workplace Relations and Safety1. CHRIS BAILLIE (ACT) to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Will the Government further progress Fair Pay Agreements; if so why given it was not the preferred option of his own officials?Hon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): Yes. Some of the workers who have gotten New Zealand through COVID-19 like our cleaners our checkout operators and our bus drivers are some of the heroes of our country's response over the last two years and fair pay agreements are about making sure that they get a fairer deal. For 30 years some of these workers have been left out in the cold in our labour market and we clearly and transparently campaigned on fair pay agreements to change this. Investing in our people is a key part of our COVID-19 economic recovery plan and these agreements will help to prevent a race to the bottom in some of these sectors. They'll deliver better employment terms and conditions for workers and help to boost productivity for Kiwi businesses by encouraging competition that is based not on low wages but on better products and services.Chris Baillie: Does he share the concerns of Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment (MBIE) officials that the proposed system may Create significant labour market inflexibility and cost when it is used in sectors without a demonstrable labour market issue." and does he think this could have a negative impact on employees?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: No I don't agree with that advice. And I do note that in this country in the democracy that we live in Governments listen to the advice of officials but Governments should follow through on the commitments that they make when they campaign upon them. What the member and the advice also misunderstands and misconstrues is that we do currently have weaknesses in our existing labour market and I think it's all very well for members of the House on salaries of around about $180000 to think that we have a well-functioning labour market; it's a little bit different—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! Now I know it's getting close to Christmas and members are getting excited—[Members laughing] Order!—but the level of noise is too much. Members from that quarter of the House one of their members has asked a question; if they want him to have further supplementaries they will let the Minister answer without trying to drown him out.Hon MICHAEL WOOD: As I was saying I think it's all very well for a member of this House on a salary of around about $180000 to feel that New Zealand's labour market meets all of their needs. It's a little bit different for someone who might be a cleaner earning $40000 a year on the minimum wage raising a family in one of our major cities with significant job insecurity. On this side of the House we do believe in backing Kiwi workers. We do believe that it is time to end the 1980s 1990s deregulated labour model that has led to significant inequality in our country and that is one of the differences between this side of the House and that one.Chris Baillie: Is he concerned at MBIE's advice that there is a risk that fair pay agreements may conflict with the United Nations' International Labour Organisation's (ILO) rights to freedom of association and voluntary collective bargaining and what impact does this have on employees?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I don't expect there to be any impact on employees and if the member opposite is arguing for strict compliance with all of those ILO conventions then I look forward to a speech from him in this House in favour of an unrestricted right to strike.Jan Logie: How will fair pay agreements benefit women Māori and Pasifika who are experiencing significant and enduring underpayment in work?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: It is very clear that we have significant inequalities in parts of our labour market and I'll come back to the comments that I made earlier. Much of the work that is utterly essential in our economy and our society has been devalued for 30 years during which time we have not had sector-based bargaining as most other developed countries do have. We know that much of that work—and think about those cleaners who come into these halls and these offices every single night to look after members of this Chamber those workers who live and have to exist and subsist and support their families on very low wages. We know that across those workforces we have a preponderance of women Māori and Pasifika and those are inequalities that fair pay agreements will also support us in addressing.Hon Paul Goldsmith: How has he managed a process that has resulted in the chief executive of BusinessNZ writing to him saying "We simply cannot in good faith take taxpayers' money to help facilitate a workplace relations scheme that is unlawful unfair and out of touch with modern ways of working."Hon MICHAEL WOOD: While I disagree with the tenor of those comments I would note that we continue to enjoy a very productive and constructive relationship with Mr Hope and BusinessNZ. In fact I had a very cordial meeting with him this morning about a range of issues. But what I do respond to to both that member and to Mr Hope is the contention that the current workplace relations settings that we have are necessarily modern. What that member is defending is an ideology in workplace relations settings that comes from the days of the 1980s and 1990s. On this side of the House we actually believe in a more collaborative approach and we believe in giving Kiwi workers a fair go in areas where they are not getting that at the moment.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Why doesn't he trust businesses and individuals to sort out pay and conditions for themselves?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Well I note that the member's question is very consistent with positions on that side of the House for example against the minimum wage which is one of those areas in which we say that actually there should be a decent baseline in terms of the terms and conditions that we have. If we took that position to its logical extent we wouldn't have statutory sick leave and we wouldn't have statutory annual leave and we wouldn't have statutory health and safety protections. I know that that might be the extremist market ideological approach of that member but that is not the view that members on this side of the House have.Chris Baillie: How did he respond to the risks identified by his officials that fair pay agreements could create "non-wage costs from reduced flexibility potentially impacting innovation productivity and competition." and does he think any of these costs flow to employees?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: The international evidence here is actually quite to the contrary. As I said New Zealand is an outlier in terms of not having any kind of sector-based bargaining as opposed to for example the most productive exporting economy in the developed world Germany and as opposed to our nearest neighbour Australia who has had sector-based bargaining in place for most of the past 40 years and has higher rates of labour productivity than New Zealand under the mainly individualised system of wage bargaining that we have."