Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2013. Volume:688;Page:8704. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
10. 
METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development 
: Does she have an obligation as Social Development Minister to ensure all policy she is responsible for will be good for children and their families? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development) 
: 
 Of course. That is why we have already introduced a number of policies that are in the interests of children and of course we have a number coming up. Our welfare reforms are ensuring they are in early childhood education are visiting their general practitioner and being Well Child / Tamariki Ora checked. There is also the Children’s Action Plan which is tackling the root issues of abuse and neglect and is getting in before they have to go under Child Youth and Family. We are also changing how we contract with NGOs to give those services on the ground bigger flexibility about how they work with us. Those are just a few of what I could mention. 
Metiria Turei 
: Why did the Minister then ignore the strong and persistent warnings from the Ministry of Health that her welfare reform sanctions for Well Child / Tamariki Ora checks would cause “substantial negative impacts on families and to vulnerable children including risks of increased maltreatment and neglect.”? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: It would be fair to say that there is a range of advice that has come on as to whether or not sanctions within the benefit system are actually what is best for children. Certainly what I have seen is that sanctions actually work and the advice I have got says exactly that. I could take you to the  
New Zealand Herald  
editorial of 13 September 2012 which I think wraps it up quite well. It said: “It would make the child suffer for the parent’s failing—but then the child is probably suffering anyway. A benefit cut would be preceded by three reminders to comply. Defiance to that degree would signal something seriously amiss.” 
Metiria Turei 
: I seek leave to table a response to an Official Information Act request that I have made from a Ministry of Health brief comment seeking changes to the regulatory impact statement for the welfare reforms dated 25 July 2012 indicating substantial negative impacts on families from the sanctions and concerns about— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Metiria Turei 
: Did the health Minister Tony Ryall ask her to find less damaging alternatives to the financial sanctions regime for Well Child / Tamariki Ora checks after he was urged to intervene by his Ministry of Health officials who warned: “We anticipate that the sanctions would have a negative impact on the health of sanctioned beneficiaries and their families. We also expect that those sanctioned will be more likely to defer health care and present at emergency departments.”? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Well it is the member’s own emphasis to say “less damaging”. We on this side obviously think it is incredibly damaging not to have your child enrolled for Well Child / Tamariki Ora checks with a GP and with a primary health organisation. It is actually incredibly damaging not to have them immunised and attending health care and being looked after when they actually need it. We see that as actually being worse for the child than what we are doing in saying please put your child first and get these things done. 
Metiria Turei 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question specifically asked whether the health Minister made a request to her based on information he had received from his own officials. She did not address that question at all. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I invite the member to put that question again but that was a very long question which was part of the problem. If you make the question more concise it is easier for me to ensure you get the question addressed. 
Metiria Turei 
: Did the health Minister Tony Ryall ask her to find less damaging alternatives to the financial sanctions regime for Well Child / Tamariki Ora checks after he was urged to intervene by his own Ministry of Health officials? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: A range of Ministers including the Minister of Health— 
Hon Annette King 
: She asked about Tony Ryall. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: —have been actually active in developing this policy around sanctions and did bring to our attention other officials and their opinions. However it is the belief of this side of the House that these reforms actually put the interests of children first. Actually it is best for them if they have Well Child / Tamariki Ora checks if they are actually enrolled with a GP or a primary health organisation and if they are getting access to the kind of health care that they deserve. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: For the benefit of the Hon Annette King I invite her to have a look at the transcript. The Minister said a number of Ministers including Mr Ryall spoke to her so the question was addressed. 
Metiria Turei 
: I seek leave to table a document a response to an Official Information Act request dated 25 May 2012 from the Ministry of Health which is a report to the Hon Tony Ryall seeking that he ask the welfare reform Ministers to further investigate alternatives to the significant financial sanctions for non-compliance— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none. It may be tabled. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Metiria Turei 
: How can the Minister stand here with a straight face and tell the House that these reforms will be better for children when the advice from the Ministry of Health says that there is no strong evidence that health-related social obligations are needed expresses concern that there are risks to the Well Child / Tamariki Ora checks if the checks are seen as a punishment or a sanction and says that the best way to reach the families not receiving Well Child / Tamariki Ora checks is by improving delivery not imposing financial sanctions which will lead to further harm to the child? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Mr Speaker— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Hon Paula Bennett—any part of that question the Minister wishes to answer. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I think that it is fair and reasonable to expect that these children are being put first. What we have done is that people are given at least three chances to comply. To be sanctioned by 50 percent—and the maximum they can be sanctioned is by only 50 percent—they then have to have not complied three times. They then get ample opportunities to actually then comply and get that benefit put straight back on. Actually to date for those who have had a work-test sanction on clients with children there have been only 35 who have had a sanction longer than 8 weeks. One has to ask themselves after all the contact that Work and Income have with them why they have not re-complied within that 8 week period. I think that is entirely reasonable.