Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 13 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:7792. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
11. 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does she stand by all of her decisions as Minister of Education; if not which if any particular decisions does she now regret? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Yes in the circumstances and with the advice received at the time. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Does she stand by her statement yesterday that she was not advised that the Ministry of Education was considering terminating its contract with Talent2 due to failure to deliver on key milestones; if so why? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: The question yesterday in fact talked about “within 2 weeks of the final decision”. I was aware that during the course of consideration there were times where meeting the milestones was questioned but when the proposition to approve the contract was made it was made with all the advice that the key milestones had been met or largely met and that we should proceed. 
Chris Hipkins 
: If the Minister was in fact aware that the Ministry of Education had considered several times terminating the contract with Talent2 and that several milestones had repeatedly been missed in the development of the Novopay system why did she sign off on the decision to go live with the new system? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I think that  
Hansard 
 will make it clear that I said that there were over the process—the long process which by the way includes 7 years including which the contract was signed by Labour Ministers of Education—we went live because we were in the balance of the circumstances the opportunity and risk it was the best advice at the time. 
Chris Hipkins 
: When she signed off the implementation of Novopay was she aware that the previous contingency arrangement with Datacom would expire before Novopay actually went live; if so why did she not ask for the contingency to be extended until Novopay implementation had been successfully completed? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: Consideration was indeed given to Datacom and it had its own risks. On the balance of both cost and overall risk the decision that we took was to go with Novopay. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That does not actually address the question I asked. I am aware the Minister probably did not hear because of the noise her colleagues were making but it does not address the question I asked. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It was very hard to hear the question. I think possibly the Minister was challenged in hearing the question herself. I invite the member to ask the question again. I would be grateful for fewer interjections so we can hear the question and then the answer. 
Chris Hipkins 
: When she signed off the implementation of Novopay was she aware that the previous contingency arrangement with Datacom would expire before Novopay actually went live; if so why did she not ask for the contingency to be extended until Novopay implementation had been successfully completed? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: Officials’ advice compared both the costs and overall risks of maintaining Datacom and proceeding to Novopay. On balance the advice given and taken was that we should proceed with Novopay. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did she take to Cabinet the decision to abandon having the existing and new payroll systems run in parallel as a risk-mitigation contingency measure; if not why not? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I took—well I do not have absolutely every detail available to me now but I am happy to do that. I did take the paper to Cabinet recommending that we should proceed. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was not actually the question that I asked. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think that is fair. I will invite the member to ask the question again rather than me litigate it. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Thank you Mr Speaker. Did she take to Cabinet the decision to abandon having the existing and new payroll systems run in parallel as a risk-mitigation contingency measure; if not why not? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I took to Cabinet a paper proposing that in the overall balance of consideration we proceed with Novopay. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Once again that did not actually address the question that I asked. She could basically say that she took a paper to Cabinet recommending any number of things but the question was actually quite specific about what the recommendations she took to Cabinet were or whether she recommended a specific thing to Cabinet. She did not address that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Can the Minister assist the House by simply answering the question as to whether the paper she took proposed to continue with the standby with Datacom or not. 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I do not have the Cabinet paper with me and I do not have that detail but a full ministerial inquiry has been organised that will provide all of that detail. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did Cabinet at any stage rescind the original decision to have the existing and the new payroll systems run in parallel until the new system was adequately operating? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: Well evidently that is the case. We have run Novopay. We now have a ministerial inquiry that is going to look at all the detail that the member is seeking and that we are just as interested in having available. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Is the Minister confirming for the House that Cabinet rescinded its decision to have the new payroll system and the existing payroll system operating in parallel as a contingency measure until the new system was running effectively? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: No I am saying I do not have that specific detail so I cannot confirm that but the ministerial inquiry will be able to do so. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Does she now regret signing off the implementation of Novopay given the taxpayer is now having to fork out an extra $5 million to prop up the problems within the system when all of the problems could have been avoided if she had ensured the contingencies that were originally put in place and the development milestones were actually reached before the implementation was approved? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: Well I can say we regret inheriting the decision of that previous Labour Government upon which that member advised and I think that we will leave the ministerial inquiry to look into these matters.