McKelvie IanIAN McKELVIE (National—Rangitīkei): I think it might be my turn. It's a pleasure to take a short call on the Charities Amendment Bill of 2022. I want to go back to 2005—well actually earlier than that; to 2004—and I remember the consultation on the initial work done on the 2005 charities bill. There was a lot of consultation with communities on it and I remember particularly two meetings in my part of the world—one in Ashhurst and one in Fielding. And it shows the significance of this bill and the impression it made on me because I can still remember them which is quite frightening.Dr Duncan Webb: You can remember Ashhurst?IAN McKELVIE: Ha ha! I can remember the meetings—the very meetings.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry Mr McKelvie. I just need to remind you this is a five-minute call not a 10-minute call which I'm sure you'll have no problem filling.IAN McKELVIE: I hope you'll give me a couple of minutes as a result of the interruption Mr Speaker ha ha! The point I'm going to make is that there was significant community consultation undertaken on that Act. It came back to the select committee and the select committee completely changed the Act as a result not I think of the consultation actually because what was consulted on and what was sold to our communities was what the Act was going to look like. When it came back to Parliament in 2005 it was a totally different beast.And the point I'm making is that we've got 28000-odd charities in New Zealand many of whom have well-resourced boards well-remunerated boards and well-remunerated staff who can deal with issues that Government put in front of them very easily but thousands of these charities are very small entities—they're either offshoots of Lions clubs or rugby clubs or community groups or little entities in our communities—who have no resource and no ability to deal with complex and complicated reporting methods and things like that that we put in place to sort out the charities in the initial reading of that bill. So again my point is that there's a lot of work I think to be done and I guess I'm saying that I think much more work needs doing in this area than has been done in the course of this bill.The National Party have said they're opposing it. And one of the reasons we will be opposing it is because of that very reason: the fact that we haven't got into this deeply enough and we haven't resolved the challenges—and the significant challenges—that face the vast variety of charities in our communities. I think some of the charities in places like in our smaller communities particularly they're very small entities who do a much much greater amount of good than you would imagine in those communities. And the onus on them is challenging and at times difficult for those people operating those charities to operate—to I guess comply with the level of compliance we insist on putting on them. So what I'm saying is I think there's much more work that needs to be done around the Charities Act and it will take a significant amount of work to do that—much more work than the select committee will be able to do on this.We'll be interested to see what the select committee gets in the way of submissions on this—I think it will be significant and I think a lot of them will be out of scope with what's proposed in this bill for the very simple reason that I mentioned a minute ago and I think there's much more work needed on this bill. I think the select committee will turn up a whole lot of issues that will be very interesting and will point clearly to the shortcomings that are contained in the current Charities Act 2005.So I think it's a very important sector for our communities; I think it's a very important sector for New Zealand. I think there undoubtedly are some charities that shouldn't be charities and there undoubtedly are some charities that are penalised by the Acts we've put in place that do great work in our communities. So it's a very hard balance to get but I do think that the process will turn up some really interesting information and I think that the select committee will have a battle on its hands getting to a point where it can I guess moderate this piece of legislation to be something really useful. So it's a massive task—a very small bill really but a massive task and I wish them all the best.Dr Emily Henderson: Mr Speaker?DEPUTY SPEAKER: Dr Duncan Webb I think got to his feet just a little bit quicker.