Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:674;Page:20463] 
1. 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Why did he flag labour market reforms as a way to protect New Zealand against global volatility instead of flagging up-skilling New Zealanders and introducing a tax regime that does not load investment incentives in favour of property rather than the productive and export sectors? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Because I was asked only about labour-market reforms. In relation to those other matters the Government has changed the tax system to more heavily tax property relative to other investments. In Budget 2010 we increased the effective tax on property around investment borrowing by $1 billion a year. We are upskilling New Zealanders: the Government will be funding around 13000 more core tertiary places across all sectors in 2012 than we were in 2008. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Why is it smart to cut KiwiSaver and to introduce labour-market changes that cut wages and conditions in New Zealand when in the last 2 months a record number of New Zealanders the highest ever have fled New Zealand to Australia because superannuation benefits and wages are higher in that country? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I think the member makes an interesting point about superannuation. In Australia the payments are actually made by companies. They are at 9 percent and on their way to 13 percent. What the Government did in Budget 2011 reflected the fact that the Government could not afford to be the major contributor to KiwiSaver on an ongoing basis and that at that point $1 of each $2 in KiwiSaver accounts had been contributed by the Government. Quite simply we did not want to run as much debt as that. As we know from the financial markets in the last few weeks running a lot of debt is not a very smart thing to do. We know Labour wants to run more debt and that is what it will do if it ever becomes the Government. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: When youth unemployment is at record proportions and there is a looming skills shortage crisis in New Zealand why has his Government cut $145 million from skill training in the Budget? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: As I said I think in my earlier answer we are spending nearly $300 million more in terms of tertiary education in 2012 than in 2008. Again there is a difference between this Government—and I actually accept that difference—and the previous Labour Government. This Government when it gives taxpayers’ money for a particular project expects to see results. When the completion rates are so low that taxpayers’ money is effectively being wasted then in our view changes have to be made. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: What does he say to Major Campbell Roberts of the Salvation Army who in commenting on the sharp cuts that his Government has just announced in its successful training programmes said “There’s a harsh irony when the political conversation emphasises the need to prepare beneficiaries for work yet the training that equips these people to enter the workforce is being slowly killed off.”? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I think we would reject that. The Government is putting in more money. We expect results from those training programmes. The other comment I would make to Major Campbell Roberts—as I have commented on numerous occasions actually—is to say this Government takes its responsibilities towards vulnerable New Zealanders very seriously. That is why through the depths of the global financial crisis we continued to fund all sorts of payments not the least of them being Working for Families. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Why has he cut the funding for the Salvation Army job training programmes when its work outcome and training outcome from those programmes is at a very high level—over 65 percent? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I do not have the details of the specific Salvation Army programmes but if the member wants to put that question down to the appropriate Minister or as a written question he will be given an answer. 
Hon John Boscawen 
: Given that he has just told the House that it is smart not to run too much debt at a time of financial crisis why did his Government wait until this year’s Budget to make the changes to KiwiSaver when they could have been made in two previous Budgets? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Because the Government addresses different themes in different Budgets. If we look at Budget 2010 we see that its particular theme was about rebalancing the tax system. Personally I think we made some good changes there. We also came in with Budget 2009 and I may be wrong but from memory that would have reflected the changes to KiwiSaver that we had campaigned on in 2008. So in that regard in two of the three Budgets we have made changes. I personally think that we now have KiwiSaver on to a platform where it is enduring where it is affordable and where New Zealanders will participate. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Given the Prime Minister’s statement of commitment to skills training why has his Government in the last couple of weeks without consultation imposed sharp cuts on the YMCA’s successful job training programme which its chief executive officer Ric Odom says puts the future viability of its programmes at risk? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Again I would say the same thing about that programme as about the Salvation Army programme: I do not have those details to hand. If the member wants to put that question down as a written question or as a primary question then I am sure we can answer it or he could give it to the appropriate Minister. But I go back to the earlier point I made which is that the Government is spending more money in this area and it expects to see value for money. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: When upskilling New Zealanders is core to creating a stronger and more resilient New Zealand economy why has his Government in the last 2 years cut industry trainee numbers by nearly 31000 and cut building and construction trainees by over 5000 or by almost a third when there is a shortage in the building trades? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Because some of those programmes just simply were not delivering results. There were a variety of reasons for that and again if the member wants to direct that question to the Minister for Tertiary Education I am he could give an answer to him chapter and verse. But I think it is worth making one point which is that yes of course skills training is critically important just as education is. That is why the Government has been committed to everything from national standards to improving the quality of the teaching that we have in this country. But that is just one factor. I tell members that the other thing that makes a difference to delivering jobs and growth in the economy is having a competitive tax system not one that would have a top personal rate with a yawning great big gap within it and not one that would apply a capital gains tax— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think we are departing a little now from the question. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: When 77000 young New Zealanders are not in work education or training—which is not funny—and there is a desperate skills shortage in New Zealand why has he not introduced new programmes to provide skills training for young people particularly in the trades area instead of simply relying on bringing people in from overseas while New Zealanders stay out of work? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well the member is just plain wrong. I mean the Youth Guarantee is one good example of that. I myself was in Christchurch some months ago announcing the increase in skills training there specific to the rebuild of Christchurch. What the Government has done is to say that New Zealand taxpayers deserve to see value for money and we will deliver them value for money by focusing on courses that actually have good outcomes. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: You’ve just cut the skills training and not replaced it. 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well you see Labour wants to run more debt; Labour wants to waste taxpayers’ dollars. That is what Labour does. Labour has a PhD when it comes to education. Labour has a PhD when it comes to waste. On this side of the House we deliver results. That is the difference. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I seek leave of the House to table a document prepared by the Parliamentary Library showing that $145.885 million has been cut out of skills training. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I seek leave of the House to table from the Tertiary Education Commission website performance information dated August 2011 on the number of industry trainees which shows there has been a reduction of 31000 in the last 2 years. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: Can the Prime Minister tell the House how it reduces New Zealand’s long-term national debt to sell assets that earn hundreds of millions of dollars a year in perpetuity for a one-off asset sale that realises only a limited amount of cash for the short term? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I think the member raises a good point. Firstly let us understand the facts. The Government intends if it is re-elected as the Government to purchase about $33 billion worth of assets over the next 5 years and it will be releasing capital in the order of $5 billion to $7 billion. So actually the Crown balance sheet will rise. Secondly if one looks at the dividend stream one gets from the current State-owned enterprises one sees it is about equal actually to the funding cost of those State-owned enterprises. Thirdly the Government intends to retain majority control. By retaining majority control but having outside investors the Government will in our view deliver State-owned enterprises that actually expand their economic activities. If one was to look at the dividend stream from assets that is greater than the normalised dividend one sees that is when special dividends are paid and special dividends are paid only when those State-owned enterprises have embarked on generally overseas activities as in the case of Meridian Energy with Southern Hydro and when the sale of those assets has taken place. As we have seen with Air New Zealand that is the very reason why that company has operated in the way that it has: because it has had a mixture of ownership. To be honest the member was a member of a Government that sat around forever and despite the fact that it had lots of surpluses never ever got up one morning and said “Let’s buy back Air New Zealand.” If it was such a failed model maybe the member should have done that rather than become engaged in a failed and hopeless project down on the Hobsonville base which has just been wound up.