1. Question No. 1—Prime MinisterHon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime MinisterORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Prime Minister1. Hon SIMON BRIDGES (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all her Government's statements policies and actions? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes. Hon Simon Bridges: Is it fair that Kiwis on the average wage will lose $64000 from their KiwiSaver over their lifetime due to the proposed capital gains tax? SPEAKER: Order! Order! No the Prime Minister will resume her seat. The question must be related to the original question. Hon Simon Bridges: When she said that capital gains tax will be fair is it fair that the Kiwis on an average wage will lose $64000 from their KiwiSaver over their lifetime due to the proposed capital gains tax? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Look this is an assertion that has been made by the Leader of the Opposition and yet he is unwilling to release the calculations that he claims he is making because I am told that the advice from IRD and Treasury is that someone earning $62000 a year would be better off by $33000 under the Tax Working Group's package as it relates to KiwiSaver. So by all means I am happy to debate the member but I want to debate him on the facts. Hon Simon Bridges: Does that include all of Michael Cullen's option one offsets and can she commit to offsetting any capital gains tax with tax cuts for KiwiSavers? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It includes the offsets within KiwiSaver because the Tax Working Group did not just make one single recommendation; it recommended a suite of changes to KiwiSaver. Hon Simon Bridges: In light of Michael Cullen accepting $64000 as accurate how on earth can't she? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I absolutely disagree with the member's assertion. Hon Grant Robertson: Is the Prime Minister aware that this figure of $64000 was shopped around the press gallery by National last week and no one would pick it up? SPEAKER: Order! And a warning to this side: I've already cut out one question here. The Minister of Finance knew that question was out of order. He was therefore disorderly and will stand withdraw and apologise. Hon Grant Robertson: I withdraw and apologise. David Seymour: Is it possible that a proposed capital gains tax could be revenue-neutral? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is certainly the request that we made of the Tax Working Group. It was to consider options around making the package revenue-neutral. David Seymour: Why would a Government request advice that would make a tax system more complicated to get the same amount of revenue? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Two points: firstly to make the tax system fairer—which seems like a pretty good reason to members on this side of the House—and secondly almost every member of the OECD manages to deal with what is being asserted to be complicated. Why can't we? Hon Simon Bridges: Will she commit to offsetting any capital gains tax with tax cuts for KiwiSavers? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member well knows that the Tax Working Group's report is currently being considered by the Government. Hon Simon Bridges: Does she agree with what she's previously said in this House: The difference is that we have prioritised things differently on this side of the Chamber. We have said 'Yes we need more revenue. We'll bring in a capital gains tax.' "? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The reason we undertook this work was because we believed we needed more fairness in our system. That is why we undertook this work in the first place and now we as a Government are considering the findings of the Tax Working Group. Hon Simon Bridges: In light of the comments on fairness is it fair to impose a capital gains tax on every KiwiSaver account in New Zealand? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again if he has read the report he will have seen the recommendations adopted by the Tax Working Group mean that people earning less than $70000 a year end up being better off as a result of those changes. I again reiterate though that the Tax Working Group made their recommendations and we are considering them all. Hon Gerry Brownlee: Put it on the Table. Hon Dr Megan Woods: It is on the Table. Hon Gerry Brownlee: It's not on the Table. Hon Simon Bridges: So is she explicitly committing to the offsets—SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. Dr Woods and Mr Brownlee—Hon Gerry Brownlee: Good friends. SPEAKER: I'm sure that's the case—and almost neighbours I understand—but that means that you should probably carry on your conversations in some other place. Hon Simon Bridges: Is she in her answers explicitly committing to the offsets of KiwiSaver that Sir Michael Cullen has set out in the first of his three fiscal-neutral proposals? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No I am simply correcting the member because he is factually incorrect. Hon Simon Bridges: Is it fair that under the proposed capital gains tax the small-business owner—for example a hairdresser or a plumber—who works hard to build up their business—SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. The member knows that questions and supplementary questions do not contain any superfluous wording. I was prepared to let the member have one set of superfluous wording—one phrase—but the member was on to a second. He will rephrase the question. Hon Simon Bridges: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I was seeking to put a particular scenario to the Prime Minister to understand her position on that. SPEAKER: And there was more than was necessary to build that scenario. Hon Simon Bridges: In light of her comments on fairness is it fair that under the proposed capital gains tax the small-business owner will have to pay tax on a third of their business when they sell up for retirement? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again alongside the recommendations around a comprehensive capital gains tax we've acknowledged that for simplicity that was what the Tax Working Group suggested. They also put alongside that increasing the threshold for provisional tax from $1500 to $5000 increasing the closing stock adjustment an increase in the automatic deduction for legal fees a reduction in the number of depreciation rates—so there was a suite of options in there. Again Mr Speaker—as I know you know but as I wish the Leader of the Opposition would hear—we have not settled on any of the final recommendations of the report. We are still considering them as a Government. Hon Simon Bridges: Can she not say whether it's fair that when a small-business owner takes all the risk to start their own business and when they sell up that business for retirement the Government takes a third? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The Tax Working Group considered all income in the same way including the way that it is treated by tax. So that's what they have put into the Tax Working Group—consistent treatment around all forms of income. We of course as a Government have to make a judgment over the consensus that we form over the Tax Working Group's recommendations. Hon Simon Bridges: Is the problem with answering my questions that she doesn't understand small business very well? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No. Hon Simon Bridges: When she told Mike Hosking last week and this morning that she'd run a small NGO that helped her understand small business what was that NGO? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I did not tell him that this morning. Hon Simon Bridges: When she said last week on Mike Hosking that her running a small NGO had helped her understand small business what was that NGO? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Actually I spent more time talking about the fact that my first jobs were all in small businesses. The point that I was making at that time—and actually that I continue to make—is that as a Government we are considering all of the issues that have been raised. That includes whether it be residential rentals whether it be small business whether it be KiwiSaver. Hon Simon Bridges: Is the NGO she spoke of the International Union of Socialist Youth? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member knows how to use Wikipedia—well done. Hon Simon Bridges: Has talking to international comrades helped her with her small-business policy development in New Zealand? SPEAKER: Order! Order! No the Prime Minister will sit down. We're not going to have that sort of seal-like approach in this House. It's a final warning and I think Mr McClay will be the first out. Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I stand by the fact that I have worked in small businesses and that I have been in charge of hiring and firing and I'd be interested in how many times he's had to do that as a Crown prosecutor. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Given all the—Hon Gerry Brownlee: Ah the businessman. SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. Mr Brownlee will now stand withdraw and apologise. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I withdraw and apologise. What was the problem there? I called him a businessman; I apologise for that. SPEAKER: The member knows well that he interjected while a member was asking a question. He will now leave the Chamber. Hon Gerry Brownlee withdrew from the Chamber. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Given all the speculation since 21 February when the Tax Working Group's report was put to the public is it the Government's position to consult with all sectors of New Zealand and by the end of April or thereabouts come to a decision as to what we will do with that report? Hon Simon Bridges: End. SPEAKER: Right. Who—no who made that interjection? Hon Simon Bridges: I withdraw and apologise. Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes. Then of course after a decision is made if there is a need for any legislation that too will go through a full consultation process. There will be no lack of input from the New Zealand public. Hon Simon Bridges: Is it all getting too hard and is that why the timetable's now slipped until the end of April? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No."