English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:626;Page:20876] 
4.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he think the education system has got worse during the time in which he has been Minister of Education as indicated by 44 per cent of respondents to a survey by the 
 New Zealand Herald 
; if not why not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 No. New Zealand has a very good education system. Our students are among the top in the OECD at reading and maths. Students are staying at school longer and are leaving with higher levels of qualifications. More children than ever before are participating in quality early childhood education. More people than ever before are completing postgraduate degrees. We have nearly 140000 people involved in industry training and Modern Apprenticeships. Our Government is committed to further raising the standard of education. We know we can do better but unlike the member I am not willing to go around the country running down our polytechs our schools our teachers and our students. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister explain to the House his role in the following problems that have affected public confidence in education: the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) and New Zealand Scholarship shambles the wananga being out of control dodgy tertiary courses millions more in fees for parents of children at State schools multiple reviews of every public education agency sackings of senior bureaucrats and board members in education agencies and a ballooning bureaucracy that starves schools of funds; and given that all those things have already happened why should the public have any confidence in him or the Labour Government in their stewardship of education? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: That is a long list and I will deal with the first item. I will quote Chris Haines the president of the School Trustees Association who is well known to the member. He said about the NCEA: “It is clear that the former system had long outlived its usefulness as a fair measure for student learning. We now have a system which more fairly recognises student achievement.” That is why the previous National Government decided to introduce it and why I agreed with the member. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: What is the Minister’s explanation for the result that 44 percent of the people who were polled believed that the education system has got worse under his watch? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Probably the habit of the Minister of getting on with improving things rather than talking about it. I think I should change and public relations campaigns in the future would be a very good idea. 
Dr Ashraf Choudhary 
: Can he tell this House what evidence he has seen to suggest that the Government’s policies are resulting in students staying at school longer and leaving with higher qualifications? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The number of students leaving school with no qualification has dropped from 18 percent in 2002 to 13 percent last year. For Maori those leaving with no qualifications have decreased from 34 percent to 26 percent—[ 
Interruption 
] That failed woodwork teacher had just better be quiet or his records will come out. In terms of retention the number of students staying at school right through to the end of year 13 has increased from 57 percent in 2002 to 61 percent last year. There is a lot more to do and this Government will take at least the next 6 years to do it. 
Bernie Ogilvy 
: Is the Minister aware that during his time as Minister of Education the average student debt has got worse rising from nearly $12000 to over $14000 and would he consider United Future’s policy to reduce a portion of a caregiver’s debt when he or she has had a child for 2 years in order to relieve the burden of student debt on young families? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: They don’t have to pay it back. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The Minister of Finance has pointed out that if people who are caring for children do not have income they do not have to pay their loans back. I must say that we have a dilemma. The idea has superficial appeal but what we in fact do for people in that circumstance is to extend their loans at no cost to them—something that is very generous and costs the taxpayer a lot of money. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that despite the fact that he has increased education spending by over $3 billion per year or by about 60 percent a poll by the  
New Zealand Herald  
found that 84 percent of the public believed that education was “worse” “the same” or did not know; and what responsibility does he take for being regarded now as a failed education Minister? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No.