Hodgson Pete: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Hodgson Pete: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:657;Page:6797] 
11.  
Hon PETE HODGSON (Labour—Dunedin North) 
 to the  
Minister responsible for Ministerial Services 
: Who provided any legal advice to support his view that the Hon Bill English is “fully compliant with the rules that operate”? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister for Economic Development) 
on behalf of the  
Minister responsible for Ministerial Services 
: The Department of Internal Affairs’ chief legal adviser advised Ministerial Services that there were no legal impediments to the lease occurring. No legal advice was provided to the Minister. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: What rules operated at the time: the rules set out in an email of 3 February which I tabled yesterday; the rules set out in the  
Gazette 
 notice of 26 May; which I tabled the day before; or some other rules? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I made an explanation yesterday about the email dated 3 February and that explanation should stand. The second point in the question the member asks—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If members want to hear the answer to a pretty significant question they may just listen. 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: —would relate to the determination brought down in 2003 by the Rt Hon Helen Clark. It was extremely wide and it raises questions about what those Ministers were doing for all those years up until their concern now. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Did the Department of Internal Affairs’ legal division have full access to the Endeavour Trust deed and a record of recent meetings before it gave legal advice? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The requirements were that members themselves as is the case with all members of Parliament satisfy the pecuniary interest test they are asked to consider. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I invite you to ask the Minister to address the question. Can I repeat it? Would that be of any assistance? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I believe the Minister answered the question in pointing out that the issue the member was seeking to have the Minister confirm one way or the other was not the relevant issue. The Minister in his answer pointed out what the relevant issue was. To me that seemed to be answering the question. The member has further supplementary questions and I will listen very carefully to the answers he gets. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question asked whether the trust deed was in the hands of those who gave the legal advice. It seems to me impossible to give legal advice that the Minister has no pecuniary interest in the absence of the trust deed. Therefore the question is pertinent and was not addressed. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will allow the member to repeat his question. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Did the legal section of the Department of Internal Affairs have full access to the Endeavour Trust deed and a record of recent meetings of the trust before it gave legal advice? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: It would have no reason to do that. The advice it tended was around the satisfactory arrangements relating to this particular case. It was able to determine that in the absence of a pecuniary interest there was no impediment to the arrangements being put in place. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Noting that the Hon Bill English declared a pecuniary interest in the Endeavour Trust in 2008 would the Minister now like to tell the House again whether those who gave legal advice had access to the Endeavour Trust deed and minutes of recent meetings before they gave advice that he no longer has a pecuniary interest? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The first point I make is that a lot of members declared all sorts of things in the 2008 Register of Pecuniary Interests of Members of Parliament including a number of then Labour Ministers who did not need to make such a declaration but did so for fear that they might leave something out. The question is always whether there is a pecuniary interest. If there is not there is no problem with the arrangements. Under Helen Clark’s rules there was no problem with the arrangements. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I apologise to my colleague. I ask you the appropriateness of during that question Bill English calling: “Same answer! Same answer!” to Gerry Brownlee instructing— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will sit down immediately. He knows that that is not a point of order under any of the Standing Orders. He should cease. He is a senior member and he should not use his position in such a way. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Does the Minister agree with the Hon Bill English who said of a Labour Minister a few years ago in this newsletter called  
Plain English 
: “Tamihere took a golden handshake when he said he wouldn’t … The question is not whether he has broken the law but whether he has behaved according to the standards of a minister.”? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I have no responsibility for anyone else’s statements. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Does the Minister agree with the views of a member of the press gallery who wrote of the Hon Bill English: “He needs to drop the bitter and nasty attacks on the media. His language in private is unbecoming and unprofessional.”? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Without fear of Trevor Mallard taking another point of order I simply give the same answer.