van Velden BrookeHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): Thank you Madam Chair. I wish to speak to a few points raised by the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe. He talked about clause 5 and I really commend him for coming back to a specific part of the bill and to a clause and I would commend any member for keeping to the bill. He talked about proposing an amendment to allow for security guards to conclude the fair pay agreement. I also want to agree with him that there are good employers; there are good people in our economy who are wanting to support workers. I really thank him for reminding us that there are a lot of people involved in this situation from both the employment side of being the employer and from the employee side that genuinely want to provide very good conditions for their workers but also a lot of workers who really respect their terms of employment too. That's what we're innately debating here today.But we don't consider as a Government that we wish to have any exemptions to the repeal because we believe that there is a better way to improve the conditions of workers for business and employees without having fair pay agreements and that is through increased productivity; that is through reducing regulation. When it comes to the cost of living that's through reducing inflation overall as an economy. There are ways for us to improve the rights of workers and to allow for a flexible labour market where businesses have confidence to employ and to pay their staff more because they have more money in their own back pockets as well. So while I very much respect and enjoyed his contribution we disagree with his amendment.When it comes to Darleen Tana I also want to acknowledge the way you presented your arguments to the committee too and you referred to the essential workers and the recognition of them during COVID. I think that's very important. We want to acknowledge many of the small businesses that run in our economy as well as the not-for-profit organisations. But specifically you asked what evidence I have that small businesses don't actually want to sign up for this type of agreement. When the Fair Pay Agreements Bill went through Parliament under the previous term of Government there was quite a substantial select committee process and many small-business owners did make submissions against the law change. I did want to point just to one which came from a small hospitality business. They pointed to the fact that their industry is already paying more. They said Many small hospitality businesses have already closed or are operating reduced days and hours only and they simply can't pay more. The Fair Pay Agreements Act 2022 would represent further change that would go too far too fast with damaging consequences."There are many people in our economy who do want to pay their staff more. They genuinely do. I agree. But a blunt tool like a fair pay agreement would have forced some businesses to close their doors because they wouldn't have been able to have the conditions that would have been forced on them by a third party that had no knowledge about their particular business or their particular standards within their operation."