Delahunty Catherine: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeDelahunty Catherine: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 02 March 2016. Volume:711;Page:9293. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]9.CATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) to the Minister for the Environment: Does he agree with his Government’s reported comments that it is unrealistic for New Zealand’s rivers to be swimmable all the time and does he think that represents an acceptable and aspirational vision for New Zealand’s waterways?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment): The Government is committed to improving water quality and the swimmability of our rivers but a legal requirement on councils for all rivers to be swimmable all of the time is unrealistic. It is unrealistic because nearly all of our rivers even those in pristine national parks breach World Health Organization swimming guidelines during flood events. My family and I are regular swimmers but we do not expect to swim in the Matai or the Pelorus or Lee Rivers when in wild floods. It is also unrealistic because some rivers are naturally unswimmable in volcanic areas and others are unswimmable from contamination from bird colonies. We are a Government of practical and not purist environmentalists.Catherine Delahunty: What is the point of all his freshwater initiatives if the standards are so weak that no river has to be swimmable but only safe for wading or boating?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: That is exactly not what the national standard said. What the national standard says is regardless of where the river is that is the bottom-line standard and then regional councils have the opportunity to determine what the appropriate standards in different areas are. I point out for instance that our most polluted water bodies are in a city like Auckland. A single stream in Auckland if we were to impose the swimmability standard would cost about $150 million despite the fact that nobody has ever swum in that particular river ever and I am not sure that that sort of imposition on the ratepayer is sensible and practical. We are about improving water standards we are about improving swimmability but we are not into pure bottom lines that will not work for New Zealand.Nuk Korako: Kia ora e te Mana Whakawā. What is the Government doing to ensure there is greater disclosure and better information on the swimmability of our lakes and rivers?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The Government is committed to improving the swimmability of our rivers and lakes and part of this is improving the quality of the information that is disclosed by our regional councils. One of the problems we have at the moment is that some regional councils measure water quality only in areas where it is a problem and that leads to parties like the Greens grabbing those and pretending they are representative. Other areas actually measure water quality in those areas where there are not problems. The new Environmental Reporting Act is actually going to require a consistency of that information and that will enable us to have better information and put pressure on those councils that are not performing. What we have also done is funded the Land Air Water Aotearoa website. What that does is it provides up-to-date information all the time about those lakes and rivers that are swimmable so that we also put pressure on communities to get on and clean up their rivers.Catherine Delahunty: When he said that some rivers were unsafe for swimming in the pre-human era how does that justify his Government’s current weak water standard?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Because it would be ridiculous for the Parliament and the Government to say for instance in the central North Island that the Whangaehu River must be swimmable when because of volcanic ash there are high levels of chemicals in that river. Are the Green Party and the Labour Party really saying that there must be a legal requirement on that council? What about the water bodies where there are bird colonies that result in fecal coliform counts that make those water bodies unswimmable? Are the Green Party and the Labour Party saying that they want to have a massive bird shoot of native birds so that those water bodies are swimmable? That is where parties opposite are impractical—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I thank the Minister for his answer.Catherine Delahunty: As a swimmer who says he “will be taking my family to swim in wonderful water bodies like the Lee River” what does he say to those whose local rivers are not swimmable?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Yes it is true that I regularly take my family for swims in rivers and have done so for more than 20 years in Nelson and I would also draw that member’s attention to all of those favourite water bodies in Nelson that have not seen any decline in water standards over that era. It is not heavily reported because there are no problems. What I would challenge the Greens about is that rather than quoting just water quality standards in those areas where it is measured and where there are problems they are actually honest with New Zealanders about the fact that the vast bulk of our lakes and rivers have ample spots where Kiwis can get out and enjoy a swim.Catherine Delahunty: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am very interested in his rhetoric but—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can I have the point of order please.Catherine Delahunty: —I asked the Minister what he says to people whose local rivers are not swimmable. He did not answer; he told us a lot about Nelson.Mr SPEAKER: I invite the member to go back and look more carefully at her question. That was not the question. It was talking about swimming in the Lee River etc. As far as I am concerned the question has been addressed by the Minister.