Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 08 May 2013. Volume:689;Page:9772. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to theMinister of Finance: How much has the asset sales programme cost including but not limited to the expenditure on brokers’ and bankers’ fees the bonus shares advertising costs the Treasury’s internal costs the costs borne by the companies slated to be sold the water dispute costs extra fees to board members and CEOs and listing fees?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance): Treasury is currently pulling together information on brokers’ fees and other recent costs and like all other costs associated with the programme they will be released when they are ready. I can tell the member that the most recently published information on the costs reports spending by Treasury of just over $16 million and by all mixed-ownership companies of $8.4 million. The member may also be aware that this has been part of a process that will mean the Government in the next day or so collects $1.7 billion which will enable it to invest in other public assets.Dr Russel Norman: Given that the best estimate of the cost of the brokers’ fees is about $50 million—Rt Hon Winston Peters: How much?Dr Russel Norman: —$50 million—that the best estimate of the cost of the bonus share giveaway is about $25 million and that the Minister has just identified about another $25 million worth of costs has the asset sale programme not so far cost around $100 million?Hon BILL ENGLISH: That may be possible. The Government has said right from the start that the costs of the programme would represent 1 to 2 percent of the proceeds. We are on track for proceeds within the range that the Government laid out some 2 years ago of $5 billion to $7 billion.Dr Russel Norman: How does the Government justify spending around $100 million selling Mighty River Power when just 2.5 percent of New Zealanders took up the offer? How does he justify spending around $1000 per retail investor on this sale?Hon BILL ENGLISH: That is a bit rich coming from the member who tried to stop the sale which would have wasted the however many millions he thought that it might cost. The Government justifies it on the basis that we will get a better-performing company a better-performing electricity market and better investment opportunities—not just for those who bought shares directly but also for the 2 million New Zealanders who have KiwiSaver accounts. We also justify it on the basis that by the end of the week we will have $1.7 billion available to us in the Government accounts to invest in public assets. That is $1.7 billion we have not had to borrow from the foreign bankers whom this member seems to be sticking up for. Would he rather have us borrow it from his mates in foreign banks?Louise Upston: Has he seen any reports on the costs of the Labour-Greens referendum?Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I fail to see the ministerial responsibility.Mr SPEAKER: I accept that. I do not believe there is any ministerial responsibility at all.Louise Upston: Has he seen any other costs associated with a Labour-Greens referendum?Mr SPEAKER: Again I do not believe that is a responsibility—[Interruption] Order!Dr Russel Norman: Given that the average retail purchase of—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! We have still got a level of noise here that is making it hard for me to hear the supplementary question.Dr Russel Norman: Given that the average—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Would the member please start for a third time.Dr Russel Norman: Given that the average retail purchase of Mighty River Power shares was $8220 according to the Government yet the typical family has less than $2000 in the bank does he think that the less than 3 percent of Kiwis who bought shares in this company are a representative slice of middle New Zealand?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No they probably are not but that member did his best to make sure that people with $2000 to spend on this did not do so by scaring them with his stupid nationalisation policy. However we are not opposed to average New Zealand households having investments so we are going to offer them another opportunity to buy shares and we would hope that the member will this time encourage people with $2000 to invest in the share floats instead of showing his contempt for their aspiration to make their own decisions.Dr Russel Norman: What is his Government’s message to the 97.5 percent of Kiwis who have not bought shares in Mighty River Power and who now face higher power prices in order to increase dividends to the 2.5 percent?Metiria Turei: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My apologies to my colleague. The barracking that is coming from behind me is making it impossible to hear the question. I am sitting right next to the questioner. It would be much easier for the whole House to hear if this barracking was made to stop.Mr SPEAKER: There is a level of noise today from all parts of the House that is unacceptable. I do not want to ask anybody to leave—[Interruption] Order! But if the level of noise continues then I am going to have to ask somebody to leave the Chamber. I would be reluctant to do that but at this stage the noise coming from many quarters of the House is unacceptable and I think Russel Norman should be allowed to start that supplementary question again.Dr Russel Norman: What is his Government’s message to the 97.5 percent of Kiwis who have not bought shares in Mighty River Power and who now face higher power prices in order to pay dividends to the 2.5 percent who have bought shares in this company and is not his Government now a Government just for the 2.5 percent and showing contempt for the 97.5 percent?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Our message to them is first the Government owns 51 percent of this company on their behalf and I expect that within a matter of weeks that 51 percent will be worth considerably more than it was at the beginning of this year. Secondly our message to them is that those who manage their KiwiSaver accounts have probably made an investment in this company and it looks like that could probably be a successful investment. My third message to them is that if they are approached by parliamentary funded Greens staff looking for their signatures do not sign because it is a dodgy petition.Dr Russel Norman: Is it a fair statement of the Government’s policy to say it cut $2 billion a year in taxes on the wealthy it then found that the cupboard was bare because there was not enough money so it told us it had to sell assets in order to pay for schools and then it sold those assets to the very same people to whom it gave the tax cuts?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No that is not the case because none of that is true. But what we would say to them is that even if that was true—even if it was true—the alternative of printing money nationalising the electricity industry nationalising the housing construction industry and shutting down our primary production industry would probably lead to less income and fewer jobs. Those are Labour-Greens policies.