Key John: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Key John: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:648;Page:17446] 
1. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she have confidence in the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Racing; if so why? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes; because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister. 
John Key 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that she met with Mr Peters this afternoon; and in light of the explanations and assurances that Mr Peters gave the Prime Minister at their meeting in her office can she now confirm that she has full confidence in Mr Peters? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I can confirm that I have full confidence in Mr Peters as Minister of Foreign Affairs as Minister for Racing and as Associate Minister for Senior Citizens. 
John Key 
: What new facts did she learn from Mr Peters at the meeting? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Mr Peters has continued to assure me as Prime Minister that his behaviour has been lawful. I know that the member agrees with me because he has publicly said that we must accept an honourable member’s word. 
John Key 
: Did the Prime Minister ask Mr Peters to clarify for her so that she could have full confidence and retain full confidence in Mr Peters what had happened to the $25000 that had been received how long the Spencer Trust had been operating and what the trust was used to fund? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I do not expect Mr Peters to answer questions about the Spencer Trust any more than I would expect Mr Key to answer questions about the Waitemata Trust. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Would the Prime Minister take a different view if she knowing that a declaration in respect of pecuniary interests had been required of a member of Parliament checked that declaration and found that a company shareholdership of 2524750 shares in the name of Craig Foss was undeclared? 
Hon Member 
: Oh oh! 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Oh oh! 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: If members have information that suggests that there has been a significant oversight in another member’s declaration to the registrar of members’ pecuniary interests then I suggest that that information should be forwarded to the registrar. 
John Key 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that she has decided to adjudicate on this issue in relation to Mr Peters in relation to issues of legality not issues of integrity; if that is the case how can the Prime Minister be sure that Mr Peters has not broken the law if she has not asked him the difficult question of what happened to the funds from the Spencer Trust? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have accepted Mr Peters’ word. I have to say that I have had dealings with Mr Peters for a number of years and I consider that I have not ever been led astray by him. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Will the Prime Minister tell her Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister for Racing that regardless of the legal situation the public of New Zealand deserve straightforward answers to the questions that have been raised about donations from Owen Glenn Bob Jones and the Vela family if the public are to maintain confidence in her Government; if she has not told him that yet will she be telling him that? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: On Friday 17 July when Mr Peters was advised by his lawyer that the lawyer had received funding from Mr Glenn Mr Peters very promptly declared that to me. I have no more questions to ask on that matter. In respect of cheques written out to New Zealand First the party or to the Spencer Trust I would assume that the convention is that those matters go to the party via a trust as they would with other political parties whether we are talking the National Party and the Waitemata Trust the Ruahine Trust or whatever. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. What is happening here is that when anyone gets up to ask a question of the Prime Minister Ron Mark MP yells out across the House threatening to reveal information. He has done it to me and he has done it to Jeanette Fitzsimons my colleague. I consider that behaviour to be threatening and bullying of Parliament. [ 
Interruption 
] I do. I consider that an MP standing up to ask a question having to face the sideline banter of someone saying “If you ask that question we will reveal stuff about you.” is unparliamentary and I ask you Madam Speaker to ask Mr Mark to stop. 
Ron Mark 
: Coming from out of the mouth of the man in a yellow jacket talk of threatening bullying intimidatory tactics and sideline comments being thrown across the Chamber is absolute—well we are not allowed to use the word. But I have not threatened everyone; I have simply asked Mr Hide whether he himself has declared everything he should declare. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Ruling on the point of order I did not hear the comments. I would ask members however that when they make interjections they do so consistent with the Standing Orders. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Prime Minister aware—and this arises out of a question last week from the Green Party—that the only improper behaviour in respect of any official inquiry in this House was when a member of a select committee a Green member was having an inappropriate affair with one of the lawyers for one of the interested submitting parties and that he had to disqualify himself and is now married to her? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a suitable question. That is out of order. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Yes but I say to Rodney that he will not be will he and we all know why—do we not. Why does he not tell the world what he is really like? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: If members interject they do get a response and that is what creates disorder. I will be asking members to leave the Chamber if they continue along those lines. We have a point of order from the Rt Hon Winston Peters. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If it was good enough for Mr Norman to make that allegation last week when I was not here it is good enough for him to hear the truth this week when I am. That is why I want an answer from the Prime Minister because this matter is part of the select committee record. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: To what extent was that a point of order from Mr Peters? It is not clear to me that it was a point of order; I think actually it was a debating point. One of the problems in this Chamber is that people constantly use the point of order process to make debating points— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes just like the member is doing. Be seated. What Mr Peters was doing was questioning my ruling. We will have no more of that. We will continue with question time. 
John Key 
: When the Prime Minister said of her Minister of Foreign Affairs yesterday at her press conference: “stands have been taken over a period of time that could be read as being in contradiction to what is emerging in the public arena.” what did she mean? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I meant that all of us in public life live in a goldfish bowl where everything we once said about something is then compared with what we later say about something. So for example when a member in this House calls Working for Families “communism by stealth” then says he is all for it the court of public opinion will judge that for what it is. 
John Key 
: For the benefit of the House can the Prime Minister clear up whether when she met with Mr Peters this afternoon she actually got an explanation from Mr Peters in relation to the $25000 that Bob Jones paid to the Spencer Trust or did she simply accept Mr Peters at his word that there was no matter that needed looking into? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I repeat that it is no more a matter for Mr Peters to explain the Spencer Trust than it is for Mr Key to explain the Waitemata Trust the Ruahine Trust or the money the National Party received from the racing industry the insurance industry or any of a long list of vested interests cultivated by Mr Key. I see he is still at it: he has been invited by Mr Hogan of the racing industry to go down to Cambridge meet with people from the industry and tell them what he would do for them. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Prime Minister aware that I made the same offer to Mr Key that I made to the Prime Minister in respect of this matter and I am still waiting for a phone call; second if Mr Foss MP has a shareholdership of 2524750 shares in a company formed in the year 2000 how could he have failed to declare that and what does Mr Key have to say about that? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I think the Prime Minister is in a difficult position. Firstly— 
Hon Member 
: I know you are. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: No the Prime Minister is in a difficult position. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: There is a point of order; they are heard in silence. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: The Prime Minister is in a difficult position because firstly she will not be aware that Mr Peters has made no representations to the office of the Leader of the Opposition with regard to any briefing or otherwise. All we know of it all the Leader of the Opposition knows of it is by way of the Television New Zealand commentary last evening. The second point is that the Prime Minister is now being asked to answer a question that can only be posed to Mr Key. It is a nonsense question and Mr Peters knows that. Once again one of his supplementary questions should be ruled out of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think the first part of the question can be addressed by the Prime Minister to the best of her knowledge but obviously she cannot answer a question on behalf of someone else. So that is correct. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. How on earth can the Prime Minister answer a question about whether Mr Key has accepted a briefing when she cannot possibly know whether he has even been offered one? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well if you read the Standing Orders you will see that if opinions and views are sought then a response—and I said “to the best of her knowledge”—can be given. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I did hear on television last night that a briefing had been offered to Mr Key. I have heard Mr Key comment on that matter today so I think he is well aware that there is a briefing on offer if he is prepared to take it—he has commented on it. 
John Key 
: Does the Prime Minister agree with Mr Peters’ statement that he put out earlier this afternoon in which he said that one he is “confident that these matters have been put to rest.” and two “This whole affair is a shameful episode of dirty politics.”? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: From my point of view I have been given no reason to believe that there is any illegality. I continue to watch closely developments on all matters around Ministers but at this time I have no reason to doubt Mr Peters’ word. 
John Key 
: Will the Prime Minister just clarify then for the sake of New Zealanders today that this is the situation: that Mr Peters has faced some serious allegations which he has failed to provide answers for; that Mr Peters went through a 1-hour press conference in Auckland last Friday where despite a barrage of questions from the media he failed to provide answers; and that Mr Peters this afternoon met with the Prime Minister and failed to give her answers but she has just accepted his word? Is that— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. This ramble you will appreciate is not the way to ask parliamentary questions. But more particularly I answered every journalist there who was halfway competent to ask a question on the law and the facts; the fact that they came up doughnuts is their problem. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No. Would Mr Key please continue with his question. 
John Key 
: Can I just summarise the situation: is it that Mr Peters faces some serious allegations which at this point he has failed to provide answers for; that he sat through a press conference for 1 hour on Friday in Auckland where he failed to provide answers; and that the Prime Minister is now telling New Zealanders that she has not actually had an explanation from Mr Peters but has simply accepted his word? If that is the case then is this the same Prime Minister who said she would campaign on higher standards in office or are those standards rapidly disappearing like her poll ratings? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The convention is that an honourable member’s word be accepted. The member himself has accepted that in his public comments on this whole issue. But what I think it would be helpful to have some clarification of is Mr Key’s refusal to confirm whether he himself would work with Mr Peters because I saw at least five questions asked of him on that matter on  
Agenda 
 on Sunday morning and he was slippery on every one of them. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that she has seen the press statement of last Friday’s press conference where I set out the eight allegations being made by the media and debunked the whole lot only to find when I was overseas that there was a ninth one which came from one Rex Widerstrom who obviously is clairvoyant because he referred to a fund that I was told the other day was not even in existence at the time he worked for New Zealand First? That is the kind of shambolic hopeless useless journalism that I am required to live with in this country. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I did indeed see that particular press statement and I have observed the member’s comments on the news media. My views on the news media may or may not be something I bother to write about at some future point of my life. 
John Key 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm then that the difference between her leadership and my leadership is that I would actually ask some questions and get some answers which she is failing to do? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The difference between his leadership and mine is that I do not call something “communism by stealth” then endorse it; I do not call an interest-free student loan policy the “greatest waste of public money ever” then endorse it; and I do not have my dogs saying that the policy of 20 hours’ free early education is a terrible thing and should be stopped then turn round and try to imply that I support it. The difference between my leadership and his is that from the time I entered this House I have had a set of principles; he has never had one. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Order! Members have had an opportunity to express themselves and we have all heard you. I call the Rt Hon Winston Peters for a supplementary question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You are aware that all parties know exactly what their allocations of both primary and supplementary questions are. New Zealand First has used the allocations put in front of it today. Do we assume that a nice cosy little deal has been done with the Labour Party to let Mr Peters get back on his feet? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member knows that deals are done by all parties in this House from time to time—not just one party. It is not a deal; it is an arrangement. I think you will recall Mr Brownlee that your party gifted an extra question to ACT. That is perfectly in order provided that the Speaker knows. The Speaker knows that questions have been given to New Zealand First; the matter ends there. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You have just been able to tell the House and anyone who is really interested—and I am sure people are not—that ACT took a question from National and that National gave it to ACT. Our question simply is who has given these questions to New Zealand First. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: It defies any rational explanation that someone rises to his feet and makes that point of order when I have had only four questions. The guy cannot count. That is the worst thing of all. A woodwork teacher must know measurement with exactitude; otherwise one would get a terribly faulty product. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Be seated. This is ridiculous. Members should also know that allocations for one day can be changed to another. I am quite happy at the Business Committee to go through the rules with Mr Brownlee this afternoon. I would like us now to proceed. 
John Key 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm then that one of her principles that she has lived by is integrity upholding the integrity of Parliament upholding the integrity of her executive; is that the case or is one of her new principles that anything that is not deemed to be illegal in her book is OK? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I follow very closely all developments concerning Ministers and I always act on advice. But I do not put myself in the position of that member who was a rugby-playing Muldoon-admiring student who could not remember where he had stood on the Springbok Tour and who could not remember that he had stood in this House and denounced the Labour-led Government for opposing the war in Iraq but turned round and said he had never said that; nor am I like that member in that he said he had always believed in the problem of climate change when in this House he had said it was a hoax. I stand by my word of consistency unlike that member who will say anything just like a short-term money trader. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table the Companies Office record of Cynotech Holdings Ltd the address of one Craig Foss MP and also his pecuniary interest declaration. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Rodney Hide 
: Can the Prime Minister assure the people of New Zealand that her Government is above even the suspicion of corruption; that her Minister Winston Peters did not receive a gift of $100000 from an overseas billionaire seeking to be made an honorary consul; and that Winston Peters did not solicit $25000 from Sir Robert Jones that disappeared into a slush fund administered by Winston Peters’ brother to be spent on who knows what? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Following news media reports on this matter it is quite clear that Sir Bob Jones agrees that he wrote a cheque that went to the Spencer Trust. If he has issues he should take them up there. Secondly we have it on the word of Mr Peters’ lawyer that he advised Mr Peters only at 5 o’clock on 17 July of the payment from Mr Glenn in respect of legal fees. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table an article from today’s—of all papers— 
New Zealand Herald 
 which totally refutes what it wrote on day one. Audrey Young finally got it right 5 days later. 
Document not tabled.