Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8740] 
5.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Does he stand by his earlier statement rating the health system 5½ out of 10; if not what mark would he give the health system now? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 I mark the health system as “continually improving and expanding” because this Labour-led Government has always made health investment a high priority and will continue to do so. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Will he assure the people of New Zealand that if they are admitted to hospital today they will not face the series of systemic mistakes that cost an 82-year-old man his life in Auckland; if not why not? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Of course I can offer no such assurance but I do note that the Auckland District Health Board has improved its systems remarkably in the 2½ years since that unfortunate and tragic mistake occurred. I would say to the member that errors occur in all hospitals throughout all the health systems in the world. This Government is intent on reducing those errors. 
Maryan 
 Street 
: On what basis does the Minister claim that the health system is continually improving and expanding and would he like to give some examples? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: There are many such examples so I will need to be brief. Immunisation rates are up infant mortality is down smoking is down breast screening is up mental health services are way better there are more nurses there are more doctors there is more transparency there is better primary health care there are lower doctors’ fees more elective surgery and longer life expectancy. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Have the ongoing disruptive and costly strikes in the health workforce and the recent deaths at Christchurch Wellington and Auckland hospitals resulting from deficient care affected the Minister’s rating of his system; if not why not? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I do recognise there has been a recent spate of reports into deaths—some of them recent and some of them not. As some of the deaths and misadventures within the New Zealand health system including the one reported in the  
New Zealand Herald  
this morning occurred 2½ years ago I think assuming some link between that and industrial activity is drawing a pretty long bow indeed. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Would he tell the wife of a 25-year-old man who turned up at the Christchurch Hospital emergency department in agony only to be sent home to die 12 hours later that the New Zealand health system is improving all the time? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: That was the tragic incident of a 25-year-old man from Coalgate in Canterbury. However the member will be aware that the circumstances surrounding that incident are themselves the subject of an inquiry by the Canterbury District Health Board. That inquiry I hope will be forthcoming with ways to try to prevent a situation such as that from arising in the future. 
Judy Turner 
: Does the Minister agree that the health system could benefit from contracting out more elective operations to private hospitals; if so is he prepared to encourage district health boards to do so? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: District health boards are already utterly free to do so—and many do. The fact is that most of the capacity for elective surgical services in New Zealand resides within our public health system. To the extent that the private health system can assist it does so—as long as the price is right. 
Judy Turner 
: Does the Minister agree that if district health boards negotiated operations with private hospitals for the mid to long term the cost to the public purse would be dramatically lower than it is at present when district health boards demand surgery for the following week and must then pay the high spot cost; if not why not? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The fact of the matter is that district health boards contract with the private sector across a variety of terms. If they have a short-term need there is a short-term contract. Some of the contracts are sufficiently long that there will be a price advantage to be secured. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Can the Minister explain how the Government is spending an extra $4 billion a year on health yet the quality of our public health services is under continual question with report after report showing that patients are dying because they cannot get even a basic standard of care under his Government? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The member chooses to abandon perspective. The Health and Disability Commissioner—the person who reliably brings these errors and tragedies to public notice in this more and more transparent health system—has certainly not lost his perspective. Let me quote the Health and Disability Commissioner from last week: “Many many thousands of people every week who are involved in health care will in the end base their confidence by their personal experience. And so if that personal experience is positive—and it probably is in the overwhelming majority of cases—I guess that is the crux of public confidence.” 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why should New Zealanders listen to the Minister’s message that New Zealand’s health system is improving all the time when he and his Government are spending an extra $4 billion a year on the public health system and there is hardly any improvement at all in the quality of standards of service for patients in this country? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Immunisation rates are up infant mortality is down smoking is down breast screening is up mental health services are way better there are 5000 more nurses there are 1000 more doctors there is a lot more transparency there is better primary health there are lower doctors’ fees there are lower prescription fees there is more elective surgery and there is longer life expectancy. That is what the member gets for his $4 billion investment. 
Jo Goodhew 
: What would the Minister say to the family of the Wanganui woman who died after being referred by her general practitioner to the hospital three times and after being discharged three times in 11 days—each time without the hospital informing her general practitioner—and how after spending an extra $4 billion a year on health can the system not manage basic communication between a hospital and a general practitioner? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I acknowledge that there has been a particular spate of instances at the Whanganui District Health Board. As a result there are a bunch of ministerial appointees helping the Whanganui District Health Board to look at its system. That work continues and there will be continual improvements in that district health board because I am demanding it.