Webb DuncanHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Thank you Madam Speaker. The member in charge of this bill Stuart Smith is certainly an advocate for the wine industry and a bit of a fan and good on him for that. Over on this side of the House we will be treating this bill as a conscience vote so our votes—we're not at one. As is the case with most alcohol bills they're dealt with in this manner at least in the Labour Party.I'm one of the members of the Labour Party who doesn't support this bill. I worked constructively on the Justice Committee to get it into the shape that it is but certainly we have some concerns around it. I guess there's a global concern about liberalisation of the availability of alcohol generally. Having said that I don't think that would quite be enough for me to oppose this bill if it was done right. The member in charge stood up and one of his first lines was This will enable wine tasting at the cellar door." That's just not what this bill does. This bill allows wine tasting anywhere providing it's provided by the winegrower or winemaker. So one of my real concerns about this bill is that someone could become a winemaker by contract contract to have some wine made and set up a bar anywhere and without all of the usual controls around the provision of alcohol. The only constraint would be the size of the serving. The provision of proper food wouldn't be needed host responsibility programmes wouldn't be needed the whole alcohol-control regime—the bar would be lowered.Now the member in charge I know thinks that that's fanciful and kind of pooh-poohed the idea but we know that whilst most people who grow wine and so on love their work love their product and are great advocates of it there are nefarious actors out there who will take advantage of what is a legal loophole and this is a massive legal loophole. That's one of the concerns that I have probably the most significant concern.And the second-order concern is that simply by limiting the size of a serve to 35 millilitres—about a fifth of a usual glass—the controls around alcohol provision generally are significantly lowered. Whilst it might be a little onerous to top up your glass frequently or to pour them five at a time it's certainly not out of the question. So my main concerns are around alcohol harm but even that by itself—I don't know; I'm probably on the fence.The other kind of problem I have with this bill is that it actually skews the market. In select committee I was very clear—and other members were also deeply concerned; and it's recorded in the select committee report—that if we're going to go down this road and if we're going to get the rules right then surely our artisan brewers should be able to have brewery-door tastings as well. Our artisan cideries should be able to have—and I do like a good cider—cidery-door tastings as well. Even our fruit wines our Barker's elderberry wine should be able to have their tastings as well. But the member in charge was adamant that "No" this wasn't a change he would support because it was just about grape wine. Apart from the snobbishness of that it's actually—Hon Member: Come on!Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: —it's actually—come on put away your pinot noir. Apart from that it actually skews the market. It gives quite an unfair advantage to wineries and grape growers who can have this particular sales technique—this particular tasting arrangement—which other people who brew alcoholic beverages cannot have. And that's just not right. It's just not fair. I would have hoped that in the National Party they wouldn't just be interested in helping along the wine industry but they'd be wanting to help along all businesses: small breweries small cideries small fruit wineries. So why is it that we've got this very targeted reform?Now it'll probably get over the hurdle. It'll probably get through tonight and onward we'll go. Certainly when we get to the committee stage I'll be putting in some Amendment Papers. I'm very happy to talk to the member about those in advance because I'm here for the debate; I'm not here to ambush anyone. I certainly don't think it should be called the "cellar door tasting bill". It should simply be called the "tasting bill" because you can taste it anywhere. You know as well as I do Stuart Smith that under the rules as drafted Montana can have a tasting bar in the middle of Christchurch Central 30 kilometres from the nearest winery. So it just doesn't work.Let's have a constructive discussion at committee stage assuming—and I'm pretty certain it will—that it does get through this reading. But let's also have a careful think about what a "cellar door" really means because I think perhaps a better rule for "cellar door" would be something like "within 10 kilometres of where the grapes are produced" because that would make some sense. There's a fancy French phrase which I can't recall but I'm sure the member would remind me about the connection of the wine to the local land.Helen White: Appellation. The appellation.Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: No no it's not "appellation" Helen White. You've got to be—everyone knows that one. So let's have a think about that because that would make a bit more sense. But that's for another time. At this stage I know there are some members who are not in support of this bill and others on this side of the House who are. Let's have a decent debate and I hope you'll have the same approach in the National Party with differing views across the members."