Collins JudithHon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura): Thank you Mr Speaker. I need to correct that previous speaker whatever her name is where she said that this Government—her Government—is the first to do anything about this. Well I would refer her to the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Amendment Bill. It's the amendment for the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009. Which Act is it an amendment of? Oh I don't know a 2009 Act—something that we in the National Government had to deal with straight away when we came into Government at the end of 2008. We couldn't have been any quicker. But of course every law which is trying to deal with criminals and criminal behaviour needs to be amended as times change and as behaviours change because these criminals do not get rich just by sitting around and saying Well let's all comply with the law now shall we?" They think about ways to get around it and they have very well-paid people to help them to do that—actually competent criminal lawyers to find out ways to do that.When I look at some of these questions that have been asked and I listen to them—the Hon Mark Mitchell referred to "What is an 'associate'?" and I heard the other side of the House screaming out "Look at 5A." So I went to clause 5(1) inserting new section 5A in the bill and what does it say? An associate "(a) means a person who—(i) is associated with the member or participant; and (ii) is not a mere acquaintance of the member or participant;"—in other words knows them quite well—"and (b) includes another member or participant in the organised criminal group (whether or not a mere acquaintance of the member or participant)." So it doesn't have to mean that; it can mean—I don't know. So in fact is the lawyer acting for them an associate? I think there could be an argument.This is going to have to get delved into in the select committee. Is their accountant—because you just know that they're going to have accountants and I know that the former head of the Police Association would know. They just have to have accountants involved. There are people involved working with these people. Are they themselves now going to have their property seized by the police—who have now been told by the Government it's OK to go after criminals now because they had five years of being soft on crime and all of a sudden it's starting to hurt. So I know what let's go after them! You guys go and do something!This is incredible actually that this has suddenly turned up in the House tonight. When I looked at the impact summary reforms for the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act 2009—the regulatory impact assessment written up by the Ministry of Justice—what is the date on that? It says 9 December 2020. What's been happening between 9 December 2020 and now? This is now 2022. Is it 2022? So what's been happening? And yet I hear that there's been no proper consultation with the broader public. There has been very limited information available to the Ministry of Justice when they did this report. It sounds to me as though this has been a rush job and yet a rush job that's taken almost two years to get itself rushed. So it's a truly extraordinary—it's right up there with Kiwi—KiwiBuild. I almost said you know Kiwi something else about KiwiBuild.But it is an extraordinary effort and we still don't have—other than the shouts from the other side "Look at 5A." I don't think 5A gives it to us. I can think as a lawyer who really has practised there's lots of loopholes in this one. I can imagine—I see my colleague Harete Hipango who has spent how many years in the courts working. How many?Harete Hipango: A few decades.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: A few decades actually—a few decades. I can see her smiling away thinking of all the opportunities here because actually lawyers are supposed to do that. It doesn't really make them associates in the normal sense of the word but yes they do get paid for their job. Are they going to be protected? I'm going to ask on behalf of lawyers. As a lawyer who still holds their practising certificate it would be quite nice to be able to know whether or not lawyers are going to be associates. Because we do know that there have been some lawyers jailed for actually laundering money from these particular people. So I think we need to know more about it. I'm sure that the Government will have somebody competent who could possibly speak on it. But there's always an opportunity for someone to show where they should actually be brought forward a bit.So thank you we are going to be supporting this bill to select committee and we're going to ask those questions there."