Twyford Phil: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeTwyford Phil: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 23 October 2014. Volume:701;Page:203. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.PHIL TWYFORD (Labour—Te Atatū)to the Minister responsible for HNZC: How many Housing New Zealand properties does he intend to sell during this term and what is the projected number of houses Housing New Zealand will own in three years’ time as a result?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development)on behalf of theMinister responsible for HNZC: No target has been set for sales or for the size of the Housing New Zealand stock in 3 years. Instead the Government is focused on what is actually the most important part which is meeting the needs of the most vulnerable families. We are doing that by investing $718 million in the income-related rent subsidy this year. That is nearly $200 million more than 5 years ago and is forecast to increase another $160 million in the next 3 years. We are committing to growing the social housing sector by opening up the income-related rent subsidy to community housing providers and by redeveloping Housing New Zealand properties to get more houses in the right place and of the right type instead of what we currently have where one-third of the Housing New Zealand stock is in the wrong place is of the wrong type or has mismatched tenancies.Phil Twyford: Why did the Government not tell New Zealanders before the election that it intended to privatise a large part of the State housing stock and how many of Housing New Zealand’s frail elderly vulnerable and at-risk tenants will be displaced due to his asset sales cash grab?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I completely reject the characterisations—I think there were about three of them—in that member’s question. But I would draw his attention in terms of the question about pre-election announcements to this a document from the National Party actually. It is a social housing policy that I think was released at the time of the National Party’s campaign opening. It says: “Reform social housing sector”—this is right at the top by the way—“to ensure it is fit for purpose including passing legislation to facilitate a shift from State housing to a range of new social housing providers.”Phil Twyford: How about “Flog off $5 billion worth of State houses.”?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Let me repeat that for the member: “to facilitate a shift from State housing to a range of new social housing providers.” If the member would like me to get a copy of it for him I would be more than happy to pass it across.Phil Twyford: How does he reconcile his statement about the proceeds of State house sales that “if we want less stock there’s not much point in rebuilding stock with it” with statements by the other two housing Ministers who say that they want to increase social housing stock?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: This is I think the nub of the question. The member does not seem to recognise that social housing can actually be provided by entities other than Housing New Zealand. For some Ministers to say “We want to increase the amount of social housing stock.” is entirely consistent with discussing a change in how much social housing stock Housing New Zealand has provided you do not expect that Housing New Zealand has to be the monopoly provider of all the social housing stock in New Zealand. It has been historically and I think if the member looks back he will find that it has not been a complete solution and that most other countries do it differently. In New Zealand this Government is open to different ways of providing more social housing for more New Zealanders.Phil Twyford: How many of the over 5500 people in desperate need of a home and currently on the Housing New Zealand waiting list—many of whom are living in cars or campgrounds—will be housed as a result of his State house sell-off?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I think again the problem with the member’s question is the pejorative way he talks about what the social housing mix should be in this country. Actually we are very keen to ensure that there are more opportunities for more people to access social housing which is exactly why we are making the changes that we are making. If the member looks back in the history of New Zealand he will find that a monopoly Housing New Zealand provider has never solved the problem of the availability of social housing.Phil Twyford: Will he guarantee that no money raised from Housing New Zealand sales will go into the consolidated account; if not will any of the funds raised by evicting tenants and selling off State houses end up in the so-called Future Investment Fund to help subsidise irrigation schemes for hard-up farmers?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member shows—I do not know—a level of imagination that is just a bit frightening really. The reality is simply this: the Government is actually focused on lifting the amount of social housing. How much we put into the capital of social housing and how much we put into the income-related rents will be entirely driven by our determination to see more access to social housing for New Zealanders. Exactly how that is to be done will unfold quite visibly in the next 3 years.