Sio Hon Aupito WilliamHon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Minister for Pacific Peoples): Madam Chair thank you for the opportunity. As I listened to Mr Seymour earlier on hearing him I think he was suggesting to the committee that to measure income was the wrong pathway to go forward on this. I could not help but think that in my engagement with the community over the last 12 months in talking about this particular issue it is often people who have lots of money that tell the people that don't have a lot of money that we shouldn't be focusing on measuring income. That is sad because if he's the only one that feels that way then nothing is going to improve in the lives of the people that we are targeting in terms of trying to lift their general well-being. I have not yet seen a shop that gives away bread other than when the community themselves end up giving away food. But businesses do not by their very nature give away ingredients that families might need to feed themselves. So I go back to the measures. I think it is important to measure income. It is one of the fundamental principles of this country and many democratic countries that the principle of solidarity requires that we all live up to the fact that we allow ourselves to be taxed so that through the collection of that taxation we are able to provide sufficiently to make sure that every child on our streets gets an education that every family who needs healthcare gets healthcare and that everybody has something to be able to put bread on their table. So the measures are important. In fact as I sat in the select committee process by far and large those who made submissions on it thought that this was landmark legislation and I want to acknowledge the Prime Minister. They all acknowledged the Prime Minister and her leadership in regard to this legislation. Alfred Ngaro and the colleagues—I think we need to acknowledge the fact that they've come on board. They acknowledge that they've made some achievements in moving children out of poverty. But I think that what they haven't acknowledged is the complication of this issue because the figures still say that 200000 to 300000 children are living in poverty and 150000 children are living in material hardship where they are going without seven or more things they need for their general well-being. So it is important that we're able to measure and track. It's important that this whole House gets on board if we are going to make a difference and the reason why is because it is internationally known that it takes at least three or four generations to lift people who are living in poverty into at least a middle-income situation. I know that in the last year or so our communities were measured in terms of our economic well-being. The net worth from my recollection for New Zealanders was $114000 for ordinary New Zealanders $24000 net worth for Māori and $12000 net worth for Pacific families and that's just not good enough. It's not good enough for a country that once upon a time was the leader in ensuring that everybody had something to be able to achieve an income for themselves and their families. So just before I finish off my contribution there is a song that comes to mind from many years back I think in the 1980s:We are the worldWe are the childrenWe are the ones who make a brighter daySo let's start givingI make reference to that because I think the Prime Minister through this legislation has put a stake in the ground for every party in this House but also for every citizen and taxpayer of Aotearoa New Zealand. This is important. This is fundamental. If we're going to lift the well-being of all of our families for the next generation or more we need to start the work here and starting the work means that we've got to have some benchmarks. We've got to measure ourselves and hopefully future Governments will follow suit and increase the measurements that are required.