9. Question No. 9—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 9—Social Development and Employment9. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she agree with Lifewise who say cutting benefits for minor misdemeanors including a missed appointment would hurt the most vulnerable; if not how will the traffic light system not hurt the most vulnerable?Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment): No because it is one part of our plan to help people into work. The traffic light system makes it crystal clear when action is required to comply with obligations. If someone fails an obligation they move to orange and have five days to re-comply or dispute their obligation failure. This is a fair chance to re-comply with an obligation before moving to red where sanctions are applied. Sanctions for missing appointments are longstanding including during 2017 to 2020 when the Greens and Labour confidence and supply agreement committed to remove excessive sanctions". Given that sanctions for missing appointments remained during this time just like this coalition Government has done presumably the Greens and Labour determined such a sanction was fair and reasonable.Ricardo Menéndez March: Who's more likely to be correct on the use of sanctions: beneficiaries and the front-line organisations who support them or a Minister who has failed to produce any research or evidence that benefit sanctions support people into employment?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: What I can say is that we are really clear that work obligations and steps to provide people with opportunities to step towards a job help and I'd be surprised if that member disagreed.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she yet know what happens to a beneficiary when their income is cut or is it easier to ignore the hardship that her reforms will inflict?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I'm really pleased to announce to the House that 98 percent of beneficiaries who are in the traffic light system are at green which shows the system is working.Ricardo Menéndez March: What does she think works best for parents: finding caregiving arrangements that work best for them and their kids or being forced into a full-time job that may compromise the care of their children because they may lose half of their benefit if they don't accept it?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: What is clear is it doesn't work to have large numbers of children in New Zealand growing up in benefit-dependent households. Today it's one in five. We want to see more parents more individuals in work to improve the chances and the lifelong outcomes of their children.Kahurangi Carter: Will disabled people on the jobseeker benefit who are waiting for a doctors appointment to move on to the supported living payment be subject to work obligations and sanctions under the traffic light system?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: There are individuals who provide work capacity certificates and requirements will be for some that they have no work obligations they have part-time work obligations or they have full-time obligations as deemed by an independent medical person.Kahurangi Carter: Does she accept the view of CCS Disability Action who says that "The barriers to accessing the [supported living payment] are numerous and until they are adequately addressed any benefit sanctions imposed on people on the Jobseeker Support will exacerbate the struggles faced by disabled people."? And if not how will her reforms to increase sanctions and compliance requirements not punish disabled people?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I've said in this House and in my answer previously for some beneficiaries there are work obligations; for some there aren't. What we are proud to say is this side of the House believes in the value of work and we will focus on what people can do and what they can't.Ricardo Menéndez March: Point of order. The question is very specifically about the barriers that disabled people face to enter supported living payment. At no point did the Minister talk about disabled people or the supported living payment and instead went on a completely different tangent.SPEAKER: I think the Minister's fairly addressed the answers to those questions."