Chhour Karen; Menéndez March Ricardo; Sepuloni CarmelKAREN CHHOUR (ACT): Thank you Madam Chair. I appreciate the answers that were given to my previous question around employment case management and how we're helping people to not become long-term dependent on benefits but my question was really around: what are we doing to the people who are there who are now on long-term dependency on a benefit and not receiving the employment case management? So whilst the answers were really good around how we're preventing people becoming long-term dependent on benefit what are we doing for the ones that are already there?RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green): So just picking up on the workshops I know that the Minister for Social Development talked about that it is not just people going directly into jobs that happen as a result of those job fairs job workshops etc. but for example with the ones in Wellington where sanctions had increased she was able to actually tell me which employers had engaged directly with it and attended for example. But then there was no information around how many people attended even right? And so I guess while I get her point that there's multiple things that may happen at the workshops is it concerning for her that there's an inability to present quick and easy information about how many people are attending and how many people are actually then going into jobs as a direct result of engaging with those workshops? Does she not think that is useful information that would be worthwhile to collect in the same way that she does collect sanctions?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Attendance? I think that's an interesting question so I'll certainly take that away and find out why they haven't been able to provide you with that data. But again trying to correlate the work seminars with direct employment outcomes is not going to happen because of the range of supports that come about because of their attendance at the work seminars. So I have to say that from what I can see and certainly from what I have overseen as Minister the reporting by the Ministry of Social Development now on outcomes through employment programs and upskilling and training programs—the transparency that is provided with respect to the effectiveness of those programmes far exceeds anything that existed when we first took office at the end of 2017. So I'm really glad with that progress. But of course we want to continue to be able to provide insights and data to show how effective the investments are and how well these programs are working for New Zealanders that take them up who have come on to the welfare system—or perhaps didn't have to come on to the welfare system because they accessed these supports. So I think there is ongoing work there to deal with regards to reporting but I'm very very very proud of where we have got to and it far exceeds as I said what existed when we first took office.Just with respect to the ACT member Karen Chhour's question there are a range of supports that are in place for long-term beneficiaries so I'll just speak to a few. So Oranga Mahi is one to support people with higher barriers—often mental health and disability related. It's really important that we recognize that one of the highest levels of unemployment sits with people who have mental health and disabilities. For far too long they have not been invested in and there is an overwhelming desire for many of them who want to work but aren't necessarily given the opportunity to work or provided with the support to be able to get into employment.Another example is the Training Incentive Allowance with some of our sole parents being at risk or being on benefit for longer periods of time because of their care responsibilities. Reinstating that not only means that they have a good chance of getting into employment but it also means that they have a good chance of getting into better paid employment that is more meaningful for them and actually can be—you know can create a generational shift. We know the research is there to support that a child's level of academic attainment is often dictated by the mother's level of academic achievement. Now not all Training Incentive Allowance recipients are women but a big proportion of them are due to the fact that it is those on sole parent support that are able to take that up.