Ngaro AlfredHon ALFRED NGARO (National): Kia orana e Maine Vaa Tuatua. And thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. Can I just acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin for her contribution and the speech that she's made. I hope that other members across the Chamber will do likewise.But in all seriousness it is an acknowledgment of the work because at the end of the day it's that commitment collectively together that we've made. I want to thank you the honourable Minister because she didn't need to but she did with both the Hon Paula Bennett and myself being there and that opportunity for the Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust. The moment was actually the smile on Di Vivian's face when she on behalf of all grandparents raising grandchildren and other kin carers could know that actually now in perpetuity there would be this fund and this support that would allow them to have the equity of allowances round the clothing allowance. I do want to acknowledge the Hon Tracey Martin because you actually put this through in your first term and you persisted with it to see that through. I do remember you one day saying to me in one Budget you said Alfred I can't see it. Go and find it." so we did and eventually found it. But I just want to acknowledge the work that had been done through that as well.I do acknowledge that it's a tough role to take on because it is the care and responsibility of all the children that are placed in your responsibility. We know that because you've got a ministry that then is in charge of that sometimes things don't always go right. Part of the role that you're taking is to try and put those things right. So we know that when we are challenging and when we are holding to account it's not only your leadership; but it's making sure the system operates in a way that does make a difference.CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): Order! Can I just ask the member please—Hon ALFRED NGARO: Apologies Madam Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): Thank you.Hon ALFRED NGARO: So I want to acknowledge that. So in saying that here are the things that I think that are really important to hold to account in regards to this. So I know that in the briefing to the incoming Minister (BIM)—and I know the Minister had read it—on page 8 of the BIM what it did talk about was one of the upcoming decisions that the Minister had to make and this is in regards to residential settings. What it said was by February 2018 there's a recommendation to ensure that the residential settings—the community-based residential options and community-based options for remand—be considered inside of that. I bring that to the Minister and to this Chamber because when we then now go to the Budget around the allocation of resource and funds—and I do want to point out that I know that for instance in the Estimates hearings we did talk about Stand Children's Services the children's camp both in Ōtaki and Roxburgh. I know there's a bigger picture because we're talking about the operating budget of $5 million. There was a shortfall.But I do have to say this because they did come to us; we did not seek them and it is our responsibility to take on their advocacy. So we had Stand Children's Services and we had mayors from the local communities come to see us to ensure that we would advocate on their behalf. Even though I know that in the Estimates hearing the Minister did say—and it was advice from the ministry and we want to hold them to account—that actually the appropriate services would be there to support them; however the communities themselves actually said that that support would not be there.They had community meetings they had protests they had mayors they even had the New Zealand Public Service Association coming out in support of them to say "Actually we know that won't work." I think one of the challenges that the Minister will find—and we will hold to account the ministry and the Minister—is that with all the good intentions if a community at large and as a whole are saying "Actually we know this won't work." I think one of the challenges is to see actually what will become of the decision that's been made. So the decision's been made not to support Stand Children's Services in Roxburgh. I do hope that those support services will be there. I know that for all of us the threshold of one child not receiving the support of trauma care—and that's what the Stand Children's Services children's camp are now; they provide specialist trauma care and counselling for those that are most in need as well.The allocation of the Budget—the total Vote is $951 million. The part that I want to also refer to is the $260 million that's allocated for early and intensive intervention services for children and young people who exhibit needs that require statutory intervention. In this case I think that what actually did happen—and as the Minister said inside the select committee room and again as I've said to the Minister—was this was the community coming to us saying to us that the advertising and I know it's been done before on TradeMe of a young Māori girl in that case a tamariki the issue of concern from the community was the disclosure of the iwi affiliations. And then the lack of care to make sure that there was consultation and engagement with those. So it was the concern from the community that again the system had not responded. In fact the only reason they came to me was because they had approached Oranga Tamariki—Ministry for Children and their concerns were not listened to. The responses that came back I think were of concern because they had said "Everything's OK. There's no concerns. We've done this before. It's not a problem." And yet what actually was highlighted in the Social Services Committee was actually that's not the case. In fact it hadn't been done before in regards to the disclosure the full disclosure of iwi connections.What also was not followed through and yet was given as a reason as acknowledgment that they'd been engaging—in fact if one reads through the Estimates report entitled in the report in the chapter on page 304 was "Working with iwi to create better outcomes." and yet that's not the case. That wasn't the reality. Again I would say to the Minister and to the ministry: this is where a ministry needs to be held to account. When a community comes forward and says that it actually first of all went to the ministry did not have a response and hence the reason they came to seek extra advocacy in the roles that they were asking for. So I want to again say that on this it is a concern that in regards to the allocation of the Budget I hope that it's allocated in the appropriate ways because the allocation of that budget of $260 million is around intensive care support and is around the support services that would ensure that family and whānau and ainga would have the support that was wrapped round them. I think what was really clear from the community was that was not the case. So again the reason why I highlight this in this Estimates hearing is because again it shows that the system itself did not work. If the system is not working then I think it's a real concern for us to ensure that that will continue as well.I want to highlight also too on page 303 where the Minister—and yes I'd never seen this before; the old whiteboard coming out. Facilitators like us who've been round for a while love whiteboards. They get out there they draw pictures and they give an analogy so they can be able to break down the presentation if it's complex. I want to acknowledge the Minister for doing that.The part though that I became concerned about was and it's highlighted here in regards to developing performance measures. In this where the Minister was highlighting the appropriation where now they were talking about the early intensive intervention and the allocation of that but what concerned me is that there were 15 measures that were talked about but only five of them actually had—and I'll read from here: "The statutory intervention transition output did not state a numerical value or target or what should be achieved."I thought that was a concern for those of us because I suppose like any target the reason it's called a target is that you've got to have something to aim for. It can't be fluffy it can't be woolly and it can't just say that we're just going to make people feel good. Actually part of setting a target and a measure is to know whether you've achieved that goal.So it was a concern to us on this side where the fact is that again out of the 15 measures that have been stated in regards to statutory intervention and transition only five of the 15 actually had set targets and valuations. And I know that the Minister actually said here as part of the process that "We didn't want just another tick-box exercise." Well those of us on this side will agree with that. As has been said previously in previous speeches the social investment approach was not about a fluffy woolly "Let's try and see if we can make a difference." approach. Actually let's be held accountable—Hon Member: A tick-box exercise?Hon ALFRED NGARO: —with the system is in place to make sure—tick-box exercise. That's right. Box-ticking exercises—gets a little bit confusing! I think we know what we're trying to say which is that the fact is we want to be able to have a measure that we can hold ourselves accountable to. So what I'm saying in this is that it is a concern on this side that the ministry and the Minister actually still have not put this in place. They said it's going to happen and again what did we have as a response? "Oh there's another inquiry that's coming along another advisory committee." The Minister's looking aghast there. We just hope on this side that we'll get past the advisory past their inquiry and get to a point where we can actually measure this.Hon Tracey Martin: There's no inquiry into Oranga Tamariki.Hon ALFRED NGARO: No no it's actually on here. It's on the report that the Minister was talking about how there's an advisory committee that they're putting together—here it is it's in paragraph 4: "We also heard that the ministry is working to decide on the right outcomes to measure performance … We heard that a recent expert advisory panel … had indicated that previous measures had driven activity and 'box-ticking' [exercises]". I'm pretty sure I heard the Minister talking about another panel OK? We just want to get on and do the work. I commend this speech to the House."