Bidois DanDAN BIDOIS (National—Northcote): Like the previous speaker I too came to this debate very late in the piece today but my jaw simply dropped when I heard that the Labour Party and the Green party are going to oppose a bill that raises the fines on people who litter throughout New Zealand. My jaw dropped because the people of Northcote will be very upset at this move. If you want any proof of how far the Green Party has strayed from their true core environmental beliefs it is to look no further than tonight. This Government is again all talk and all platitudes and very little action. They're all very big on making you feel good and dropping those fluffy phrases but not on delivery and not on substantive behaviour.I've heard many speeches here tonight and I want to traverse some of the key arguments that are coming from the Labour Party and the Green Party on why they are not supporting the member's bill of my very good colleague the Hon Scott Simpson. We all know that the Prime Minister wants rational debates. So this is where we will have a rational discussion around some of the key issues that have been raised this evening. The first is that fines don't deter behaviour. That's what we've heard from the opposite side. But what I'm saying is let's debate how to make these fines work how to make this enforceable because fines if you can be very blunt act in the way that negative taxes do or taxes on negative actions. Think about taxes like the capital gains tax—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Order! [Interruption] Come back to the bill thank you. I've already admonished one speaker for straying from the report back from the select committee.DAN BIDOIS: Madam Assistant Speaker thank you. I want to be clear that having a fine on targeting negative behaviour and I'm actually making a comparison to taxes that in fact also deliver—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Was that part of the discussion during the select committee?DAN BIDOIS: No but I'm—Hon Gerry Brownlee: You're not constrained; it's the third reading.DAN BIDOIS: No no it's the second reading—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Second reading.DAN BIDOIS: But Madam Assistant Speaker I do think it's important because—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): You may consider it important but I would like you to confine yourself to the matters at hand which is submissions discussion at select committee and how the bill has come back to the House.DAN BIDOIS: OK Madam Assistant Speaker. So on this topic I simply want to put to the other side: let's debate how to make these fines work.Another point that's been raised in the discussion tonight is that the fines imposed are disproportionate to the offence that has occurred. But let's have that debate and we could have the debate in the committee as a whole about exactly what that fine level should be at. We've heard that there has been support from the other side for a $500 penalty so why not have that discussion in the committee stage and convince us that in fact $500 is worthy and not $1000.Let's get to the third key point that this Government is using as a way to vote this bill down. They're saying that they have a better plan. So let's talk about their plan. They've got a Waste Minimisation Fund an expansion of the disposable levy fund and the waste disposal levy level that they want to increase as well. But my question to that side of the House is: can you tell me how the Waste Minimisation Fund will stop the person down at Little Shoal Bay throwing their can of Coke in the river or in the stream? Can you tell me how somebody who goes and drops litter on private property is going to be affected by improving data which we say that side of the House is trying to do? Because it's very clear from where I sit and where we sit on this side of the House that their action plan does not in fact get us to a case where no one is littering in New Zealand.So I want to come to the reasons why we support this very important bill. We know that it's a big issue in New Zealand—16 percent of all trash is done through litter. It's not going through some formal waste disposal mechanism. Now that side of the House wants to say that that's not an issue that that's OK. I'm sorry but the people in Northcote—frankly speaking 16 percent is far too much for them.The second point is that this is part of the solution. Improving the fines and raising the fines level is part of the overall solution. We know that it's not going to—hand on heart—solve the issue of litter on our streets but it's part of the solution. Like any problem that we debate in the House tonight it is a multifaceted problem and to say that raising a fine isn't going to make a single difference makes a mockery of all the other fines that we actually have in New Zealand. So enforcement is important and it's part of the challenge but it's not the full picture. So I do want to agree with the other side of the House on one point they've made this evening which is around the cultural change that needs to occur in New Zealand.The previous speaker Jenny Marcroft raised the Be a tidy Kiwi" campaign and how successful that was thanks to the Sir Keith Holyoake - led National Government in the 1960s. I would like to see this campaign revitalised because I think that it is time for us to revitalise and change our culture because not all of us grew up in that era and some of us particularly new New Zealanders may not be aware of those cultural changes and that value that we had when we were growing up. But to just throw out the fines system because it's simply a cultural issue I think is a silly and irresponsible idea by that side of the House because to put proactive but also practical suggestions on how we can reduce litter in New Zealand is extremely important. But no this Government is playing politics. They in fact lack integrity and let me elaborate on what I mean by that. Their words do not reflect their actions in the House tonight—their words do not reflect their actions in the House tonight. The Green Party I thought was all about getting litter off our streets improving our environment and they have the opportunity to demonstrate the congruence and the integrity that I believe that the Green Party had but unfortunately lacks in the House this evening.So we will be supporting this bill and it is a shame that this Government is deciding to vote this bill down because we want a tidy country in New Zealand but behavioural change doesn't happen overnight. It is part of a long-run series of reforms that includes the carrot and stick methodology increasing fines holding people accountable educating the public and improving information and I believe that through that we can get there in the House tonight.I'm disappointed that the House is not going to pass this bill. The people in Northcote will be particularly unhappy about this bill being voted down and dare I say the environmental groups in the area of Northcote will be very upset that we are not looking at improving the fines structure. I would have liked to have devoted more time to this in the committee as a whole but I commend this bill to the House. Thank you very much."