English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8179] 
5.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he stand by his statement in the House yesterday that “ … I think that after all the troubles we had in rolling out this system there is a way to go yet to ensure that parents—and I include employers—understand this system fully.”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Yes. As I made clear yesterday I understand that there are some concerns in the community about the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA). The earlier operational difficulties have now been resolved but a number of changes in the design of NCEA are yet to happen and I am certainly committed to that further refinement taking place. The next job for the New Zealand Qualifications Authority is to do more to explain NCEA to the wider public so that they can feel confident that we now have the right system for the country. 
Hon Bill English 
: In the light of his view that the only problem with NCEA—the only problem there ever has been with it—is that parents do not understand it has he seen the comments by the president-elect of the Secondary Principals Association that an independent review is required to restore public confidence and prevent the development of a two-tier qualification system; if so what is his response? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: To the first part of the question can I answer as I did yesterday by saying to the member that he should not begin his question by making up the answer he would have preferred to have from me—something his predecessor was doing yesterday. I now move to the second part of the question. Having talked to the leader of the Secondary Principals Association this morning I can say that he and I are I think comfortable that we are at the point now in terms of changes to NCEA where a number of design features are yet to be improved on this year and that some kind of independent inquiry would get in the way of the roll-out of those changes particularly given that numerous inquiries in 2005 resulted in a very large number of recommendations nine of which are yet to go and about 119 of which have been completed. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Why is the Minister refusing to entertain the idea of introducing a statistically moderated scholarship examination as was originally intended and instead is holding steadfastly to a standards-based approach the unreliability of which is causing schools to fall back on international examinations thus undermining the integrity of a comprehensive national assessment system? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I always listen very closely to what the member has to say because he has a lot of sensible things to say about education but as yet I have not received one single communication of any kind from the education sector requesting what he is requesting and that is why I am not considering it. 
Dianne Yates 
: Could the Minister be specific about the reviews of NCEA that have been conducted and what the outcomes of these reviews are? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: As I mentioned before several internal and external reviews were commissioned in 2005 including two State Services Commission reports. Those reviews set out 191 recommendations; 168 recommendations have already been addressed 14 are ongoing and nine are still being worked on. The State Services Commission report on the delivery of secondary school qualifications also found: “A clear message from the majority of schools [was] that notwithstanding difficulties with implementation NCEA is enhancing learning outcomes for students and improving teaching practice.” That I think is the central point. It is the right kind of assessment for this country. It was introduced by National and implemented by a Labour-led Government. We are on the right track. The question before us is to make sure that we get all of it exactly right. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why does not the Minister tell the House that those reviews he refers to were all forced on him despite his spending months in this House pretending that there was nothing wrong with NCEA and that that is why parents do not take his reassurances seriously any more—because they believe he is more interested in politics than he is in the future of their children? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Actually they were not forced on me unless the member means “me” in the sense of the general person who occupies this particular role. The issues came about because as I have said repeatedly the roll-out of NCEA was problematic; therefore the review in 2005 was very necessary. But if anybody is playing politics here it has to be a member of a party that when in Government introduced standards-based assessment and now will not stop trying to undermine it. I know that come the election members of that party will be supporters of NCEA; as always they will flip-flop and agree with what is a sensible policy. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister explain to the House why some parents prefer an exam system that he has described as suitable for places like Botswana over NCEA; or does he not yet understand that every time he says the Cambridge International Examinations are bad thousands of parents decide they must be good? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I think the reason that some parents opt for an exam like the Cambridge one is very simple: it provides more predictability. The member will know because I think he has been to university that one of the things people often look for from assessment systems that are about ranking is predictability. One of the things that many of the schools that have been asked by parents to follow this particular line are doing is responding to parental requests for a more predictable form of assessment which all sorts of ranking exams are. I think that one of the things we have seen in the last two exam periods is that NCEA is becoming highly predictable as well. That will meet the needs of parents who are seeking a predictable exam system. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister feel just a little bit out of touch given that yesterday he told the House that all the educational professionals support NCEA and what he is doing then today the chairman-elect of the biggest group of secondary school principals in the country said that principals would like to see an independent review; does this mean that the Minister is not talking to them or that he has stopped talking to anyone who disagrees with him? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Quite the contrary; I talk to Michael Cullen all the time and now and again we disagree! As I mentioned to the member before I rang Peter Gall this morning. I am just trying to look for the exact reference but Peter did stress to me on the phone as he has stressed to journalists and as has been recorded on  
Morning Report 
 that he is a strong supporter of NCEA. His school in the past has rejected the Cambridge exam as not being appropriate for a New Zealand setting and that remains his position.