Carter David: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Carter David: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Sitting date: 14 December 2004. Volume:622;Page:17863. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon DAVID CARTER (National) 
: 
 I missed the contribution from Dr Cullen but from the ensuing debate I gather that Dr Cullen suggested to the Committee that the Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill which we are debating tonight will actually ensure that we get better accountability for things like the debacle associated with Christchurch Polytechnic. Well I have to say the Christchurch Polytechnic matter is about bad Government policy. It is the policy that gave something like $6.5 million to that well-known Labour Party lackey Vicki Buck and that needs sorting out. I would not have thought it took a bill of some two or three hundred pages to be passed under urgency—at the same time as the press gallery party is being held—to sort that out for the future. It always surprises me that a debate on legislation like this seems to be timed for when the press gallery has its annual party. [ 
Interruption 
] The Minister suggests it is all about more scrutiny of taxpayers’ money but maybe on this occasion he actually does not want the press gallery to scrutinise the debate. He does not want the press gallery to scrutinise the legislation. 
It is fine for Gordon Copeland to stand up and suggest that he has worked on the Finance and Expenditure Committee and has accepted the word of the honourable Minister. 
Martin Gallagher 
: How can you think the press gallery is so shallow that they would not be here for this really important debate? 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: I invite the member to raise his eyes skyward and look at the press gallery. It is absolutely empty! If the member cleans his glasses I am sure he will see for himself that not one member of the press gallery is there and that is probably the very reason the Minister decided to run a large piece of legislation through on the argument which he gave the House that it will improve transparency. I am sure that as we get further into the debate tonight we will come to the conclusion—certainly on this side of the Chamber—that this legislation is not about increasing transparency of expenditure. 
This is all about Dr Cullen being worried about transparency. He has been caught out and is so embarrassed at this huge gift of taxpayer money that has gone in the pocket of Vicki Buck that he has brought this legislation into the Chamber during urgency. When the press gallery— 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Isn’t that National Party policy? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Yes it was absolutely. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: Excuse me there is no need to suggest that this legislation that effectively wipes the Fiscal Responsibility Act is National Party policy. I assure Brian Donnelly that he has not done his homework if he thinks that this party will give way on the Fiscal Responsibility Act. It has worked well. We have had accountability as we have seen with the Government being totally embarrassed by the recent Vicki Buck gifting affair at the Christchurch Polytechnic. We have seen the embarrassment it has caused the Government. Maybe Brian Donnelly should take a call if the Minister will not and assure us that this legislation will provide more transparency. I do not accept that argument at all. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Criticise them for not fixing it up—that’s fair enough. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: I do criticise them for not fixing it up. But I understand that Dr Cullen made a contribution earlier suggesting that this legislation will mean those sorts of horrific wastages of public expenditure will be seen more easily. I do not accept that. Dr Cullen has rolled in this legislation so that we do not have the chance to really examine the estimates—he is making sure it will be more difficult with the passing of the legislation—and I have become concerned. What argument is Dr Cullen advancing that we need to be able to aggregate the outputs? I do not accept that from the Minister and I am surprised that Brian Donnelly has come here and found that it does not need further examination. I suspect that we will have dumber Ministers being led by their departments. That is what will happen. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: We’re ahead in the polls don’t worry. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: Dr Cullen says that this legislation can pass because Labour is ahead in the polls. I say to Dr Cullen that that has nothing to do with this at all. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: It has not got a lot to do with dumber Ministers. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: It certainly does have a lot to do with dumber Ministers; I see one just coming through the door. Certainly what the Opposition is worried about is that this legislation before the Committee today gives more control to the departments.