Ngaro AlfredORANGA TAMARIKI LEGISLATION BILLIn CommitteePart 1 Amendments to Oranga Tamariki Act 1989Hon ALFRED NGARO (National): Thank you Madam Chair. I rise to take a call in this committee stage and again as we have previously discussed in the second reading last night we on this side are supporting the bill. In her submission last night the Minister discussed her Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 247 and so I look forward to that so I just want to make some comments on the Supplementary Order Paper by the Hon Tracey Martin. The Supplementary Order Paper clarifies amendments to the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 in Part 1 and Schedule 1 of the Oranga Tamariki Legislation Bill. As was indicated previously the main changes in this Supplementary Order Paper are to amend it to insert new clause 3A which inserts definitions of non - Schedule 1A offences and I think this is critically important because this goes to the heart of the definitions around the areas of transition from the Youth Court and then through into the adult court as well. So when the Minister will obviously stand to rise and to answer some questions I suppose it's the clarification in regard to what we had in the select committee stage when we were asking questions of the officials as to the differences between the Schedule 1A offences and the non - Schedule 1A offences when they do transfer up and then also too in regards to them being heard in the same adult court with the other non - Schedule 1A offences as well. So I'm sure we'll hear from the Minister in that regard as to the technical changes that are there and their importance but also any unintended consequences that she may have seen that may have happened in that. I think we did have some conversation around that there could potentially be some anomalies as well to that. I know that in this regard for instance when it is a Schedule 1A offence there is no provision for a family group conference (FGC) because there's a transition into the adult court as well. I suppose the question for the Minister though is that though both offences are being heard the whole process of an FGC does allow for other forms of mitigating but also rehabilitation back into that situation as well and whether there was further on down through the process where there may be an opportunity for an FGC to play some sort of role in the rehabilitation process—hence the reason why an FGC is there in that regard as well. The other part too in regard to SOP 247 is the amendment of new clause 4B which inserts new section 247A and to new clause 4G which inserts new section 276AA to enable the prosecutor to seek a determination from the Youth Court that a charge is a related charge instead of enabling a proposal to be notified. It also replaces new section 276AB(3) in new clause 4G to clarify when section 138(1) to (3) of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011 does not apply to the hearing of the charges together with another charge as well. Lastly it amends new clause 4H in relation to a proceeding that is transferred back to the Youth Court following a guilty plea or a finding of guilt in the District Court or the High Court. New section 276A then enables the Youth Court in most circumstances to treat the proceeding as if the charge had been proved before the Youth Court. This includes the circumstances of section 283 of the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 and consequently clause 4J is deleted. Just on that Madam Chair the Supplementary Order Paper also makes other technical amendments and so I seek your indulgence because some of this I will be reading because of the technical nature that comes with it but then I will also make some comments as well. So in the committee of the whole House obviously Part 1 is the meaning of the youth justice coordinators and whether the family group conference is required or otherwise. There's the jurisdiction of the Youth Court children's liability to be prosecuted for criminal offences and the manner of dealing with these offences as well. I think one of the points that we've maybe said which is to go with this commentary around the Supplementary Order Paper is whether there's the capacity and capability for the court system as it is at present. So it would be good to hear from the Minister as to her sense that as we make these technical changes whether the provision in the current court system is actually there to appropriate these changes that will be made in the court as well. The manner of dealing with offences and the transfer of proceedings back to the Youth Court I think is quite important and that went to my first point around an FGC process. So initially with a non - Schedule 1A offence if that offence is then dealt with then in the adult court when the non - Schedule 1A is dealt with a transfer back into the Youth Court is there provision to be able to deal with that by using an FGC process as well? Also there are provisions in the instance of a child young person or adult being jointly charged in the hierarchy of the court's responses if it's proved? Thank you.