English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:610;Page:7820] 
2.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does her statement that “No one is going to get any new exclusive ownership to the foreshore and seabed.” mean that she will ensure that the Crown has exclusive title to the foreshore and seabed; if not why not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister) 
 on behalf of the 
 Prime Minister 
: The Prime Minister’s statement means what it says. The member will just have to be patient. This is a more complex issue than simplistic billboard slogans allow for. 
Hon Bill English 
: If the issue is simple enough that the Prime Minister can state: “There will be no private ownership of the beaches and the seabed.” why can she not say whether there will be exclusive Crown ownership of the beaches and the seabed? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member will just have to wait. But as I pointed out to him before legislating for Crown ownership would not prevent Maori customary rights as he seems to think it would. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Can the Prime Minister explain her introduction of the word “exclusive” into the foreshore and seabed debate; does it mean that the Crown will not allow any new title that has any degree of exclusivity to it such as the ability to demand rents for marine farming or is the Prime Minister using the word “exclusive” to mean that Labour is willing to see the creation of any new title over the foreshore and seabed provided that it is not 100 percent? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No and generally speaking apart from mussels etc. marine farms exist above the seabed not on it. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked a serious question as to whether it was one sort or the other and the answer I got was “No”. That cannot be an answer. I was asking the Prime Minister whether she could explain in what sense she was using the word “exclusive”. That answer cannot in any way address the question. I did not ask anything about where the foreshore limits are. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am quite happy to state that what the Prime Minister is referring to there is that the existence of freehold title which is possible under the present Maori Land Act system would provide exclusive rights of ownership. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Prime Minister agree that new exclusive ownership does not include Maori customary title which as a pre-1840 existing right is not new and as a tikanga-based collective form of ownership is certainly not exclusive; if not why not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Maori customary rights could only pertain to particular Maori in particular places for particular purposes. They could not possibly apply to all New Zealanders in the same way. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: When the Prime Minister told a press conference yesterday that some groups would be disappointed at the Government’s eventual decision to which groups was she referring? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Those on the extremes. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I’m pretty upset already. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is the one interjection that is being warned about. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Government intend to legislate for exclusive Crown title to the beaches and the seabed? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member will have to wait a few more days to see the Government’s proposals to their full extent. I do note that some 10 years ago in this context the member himself said that environmental groups and public access groups are the most openly racist groups in our society. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why would we be expected to have any confidence in this Government’s handling of this issue when by its own behaviour it has indicated its preference for one side of the debate—namely its consultation with some Maori to the exclusion of all other New Zealanders? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: In the Labour caucus we normally have discussions internally first then we go for public consultation outside. That is exactly what will be happening in this case. There will be full public consultation on the proposals which will be in the public arena. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: When the Government eventually announces its plans will they include plans to legislate definitions of Maori customary usage customary right and customary title; if not why not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: In terms of Maori customary usage and Maori customary rights those are matters for iwi hapu and whanau groups to establish in front of the Maori Land Court. Clearly the main ones of those are already established in legislation in terms of the recognition in the Fisheries Act of Maori customary fishing rights. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why is the Prime Minister able to say that no private title to beaches will be given but has been unable to say who will own those beaches—whether it is the Crown or someone else? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I suggest that the member do some more work investigating other jurisdictions. He may discover some interesting answers to that question.