Clark David: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeClark David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 09 June 2016. Volume:714;Page:11857. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]5.Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour—Dunedin North) to the Minister for Economic Development: What is his current best estimate of the financial liability that the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment’s use of the AMS payroll system has generated for the Ministry as a result of issues with its compliance with the Holidays Act 2003 since its use was approved in 2012?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development): First I do need to correct the member’s question. The payroll provider has actually been used since 1999 and the contract was signed in 2004 for its use by one of the legacy agencies at the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment (MBIE). At this point I am not—Grant Robertson: Whatever.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well it is quite important I think you will find. At this point I am not prepared to provide the member with any estimate as I am not satisfied that any estimate would be sufficiently robust and therefore it could be misleading to the House and the wider public. MBIE is currently working with the provider to resolve the issues it has identified with its payroll system. The most important aspect of that work is remediation of the issues which will allow both future and historic payments to be calculated correctly. Once that has been achieved I will be able to provide the House with an estimate of any outstanding liability.Dr David Clark: Is the Minister aware that according to his own department’s data 763000 New Zealanders may be owed hundreds if not thousands in back-pay for the past 6 years?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I am aware of a range of estimates. I think the labour inspectorate has been very careful to provide lots of provisos on those estimates but in relation to the payroll it is important for the member to understand that I have the ministerial responsibility for the MBIE payroll and the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety has responsibility overall. If he has some questions he wants to put down in relation to the wider issue with holiday pay those should best be put down to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member wants to have the chance to ask supplementary questions just stand and ask them without the interjection.Dr David Clark: As it is 9 months since he first learnt of the issue when does he expect to have the liability properly quantified?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I do not have a particular date for the member today but what I can tell him is that I am receiving regular updates on progress. The actual liability will be able to be determined once the remediation fixes are in place and any adjustments made to both current staff and prior staff. It is important to note that in terms of cash the Holidays Act impacts are not faced in cash terms until the employee leaves or otherwise cashes up that holiday entitlement.Dr David Clark: What is the average amount of back-pay owed to affected employees at his ministry?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I believe that I answered that in both the primary question and the supplementary question. We do not have that information at this time.Dr David Clark: Has he seen advice from MBIE that shows that his current approach to this issue will result in many New Zealanders missing out on their rightful holiday pay?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Again I think that the member might be confused. That might be a question that he wants to direct to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety. He should go right ahead.