Woodhouse Michael; Dean JacquiHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National): I'm not sure if the Minister of Finance would agree but the best cheese rolls in the country can be found at the Good Oil in Dunedin—Hon Grant Robertson: Some of the best.Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: There are many. It's a competitive market. Now the Minister talks about the amount of work that would have been going on in cafes bars and restaurants right across the country on Sunday evening and my daughter who works at the Good Oil in Nichol's in Andersons Bay—a fantastic cafe and she does a great job but she was going through the myriad of changes the sort of here-we-go-again response to that. So there's a high level of empathy I think for the challenges that the Minister laid out.I've been reflecting on the very real challenge that the Minister had in trying to land the policy position on the question of the timing of revenue loss versus permanent revenue loss and he strikes me as someone who will probably be riffing with his policy staff—it was something that I loved to do. I see the new member for Mana nodding and smiling. She had to survive it for a time. But actually you get better answers and you challenge the officials and they need to be able to challenge the Minister back. Here's one thing that could have been considered and it's probably too late—but maybe not. And that is the Minister and his officials were as I was for a while trying to work out what is the best calculus as I describe—the best formula for being able to say OK this is timing difference and it's going to be recovered and therefore it shouldn't be eligible or qualifying versus a permanent loss of revenue." The question of what's a tourism industry and whether it's a petrol station in Wanaka and so on.The businesses know that best and I wonder if the Minister—and he could perhaps touch on this in the committee of the whole House—considered a loan arrangement that could be converted to a grant: a loan at zero interest extended by the Inland Revenue Department that on application by the business on the basis of the permanent revenue loss could have been then converted and non-repayable. Now what that would do is firstly it stops the definitional difficulties in the moment of a lockdown but it does the most important thing and what the policy goal is and that is to preserve cash flow to the degree possible and to the maximum amount of the grant basis. So I do sort of commend that idea. Maybe he has thrown it around with officials and he could inform us in the committee of the whole. That takes out the question of seven days versus 14 days because actually it is a very precise thing—and I didn't say that as a criticism but it does make the definitions more difficult. The other thing I'd like the Minister to consider when we come to the committee of the whole House is the question of the intention of clause 6 of the bill—and that is section 157 amended. What section 157 does as I understand it in the Tax Administration Act is outline the sorts of repayments that the IRD might be given that need to be offset against loan defaults or arrears. Now if I read clause 6 correctly what it is saying is if a small business is eligible for a grant but that small business is in arrears or default for other tax obligations to the IRD then the grant would not be paid to the small business but would be offset against the debt already owed to the IRD. Now I might be reading too much into that clause but if I have interpreted that I find that a little concerning because the very goal is cash flow and that cash flow would be lost if it becomes an offset situation. So I wonder if officials could by the time we get to the Committee of the whole House give us an answer to that question. And I look forward to it. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): I call David Seymour."