Williams ArenaARENA WILLIAMS (Labour—Manurewa): Mr Speaker thank you. Seeking to debate the last section of the Minister's motion which reads: he had moved that the committee's powers be extended under Standing Order 295(1)(b) to consider [the] out-of-scope amendments set out on Amendment Paper No 41" and to draw the House's attention to the part which my debate call will be about; it is only this Amendment Paper which was tabled today as No. 41. The reason I'm debating this is that it is unusual but it is also something which simply cannot be done by the Finance and Expenditure Committee before 18 July. So let me explain to the House why that is. This Amendment Paper amends the Water Services Act and 101 (3A) impacts upon Taumata Arowai and the National Policy Statement for Freshwater Management. That is a piece of this legislation which is not mentioned anywhere else in that bill and is something which falls well outside the ordinary scope of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. That is something which would usually be considered by the Environment Committee and so it would be appropriate for the committee to be able to use the Standing Orders Committee's decisions from 2020 which are recorded in the Standing Orders 197. That provision is for joint meetings of two committees. The Hon Minister Shane Jones is looking at me because he won't be familiar with these new rulings so let me explain to him what those new rulings are. Joint meetings of the committees are a new innovation by this Parliament and it was in a submission from Jonathan Boston who is a well-known submitter to the Standing Orders Committee. He helpfully advised the committee and they ultimately agreed with his advice that joint meetings of two select committees or more would assist the Parliament to unpack exactly the kinds of provisions that this Amendment Paper which the Minister has proposed to the House should be considered in his motion—this is exactly the kind of thing that those joint committees were intended to provide for when that 2020 Standing Orders review was considered. Hon Shane Jones: Historic material—historic.ARENA WILLIAMS: No it's quite relevant because the member hasn't been a part of the joint meetings. So my point is that it would be appropriate and exactly what the Standing Orders Committee intended for a joint meeting to be held between the Environment Committee and the Finance and Expenditure Committee and that is not possible if the report back date is 18 July. It would be possible if that date was 18 August because that would give six weeks minus the two weeks around the scrutiny period. Both committees would need to resolve at an ordinary meeting with a motion on notice to be able to have that meeting and so that gives them two weeks only to be able to have one of those joint committee hearings. That is absolutely necessary to consider what the Minister has proposed in his motion that's set out in Amendment Paper No. 41. If the Minister is not prepared to change the date then he should amend his motion to remove the consideration of the out-of-scope amendment set out an Amendment Paper No. 41 because the Finance and Expenditure Committee as we have heard from a number of members of that committee today is not the appropriate place to consider that amendment. They are not set up to consider that amendment. They do not have the right advice to consider that amendment. And so Mr Speaker I'd ask you to ask one of the Ministers in this House in accordance with Speaker's ruling 115/2—that was a Speaker's ruling in 1997 from Speaker Kidd—to explain why this Amendment Paper part of the motion is necessary given that the Environment Committee is the appropriate place to consider Amendment Paper No. 41."