Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:618;Page:13976] 
10.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations 
: Can she rule out ownership of the Waikato River and west coast harbours being transferred to Tainui as part of a settlement of its historical claims; if not how does she reconcile that with the Government’s assurances to other New Zealanders that the foreshore and seabed will be placed in Crown ownership? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) 
: 
 The foreshore and seabed will be placed in Crown ownership through the bill that is currently before the Fisheries and Other Sea-related Legislation Committee. The settlement of historical claims is a matter of negotiation between Tainui and the Crown and those negotiations will not be conducted in this House. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Is it true that Government Ministers and officials have had recent meetings with Tainui representatives and have assured them that the Foreshore and Seabed Bill will not be allowed to affect their historical treaty claims to the Waikato riverbed and west coast harbours and does that mean that parts of the foreshore and seabed could potentially fall into private Maori ownership even though the Government claims the Foreshore and Seabed Bill vests the foreshore and seabed in the Crown? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Yes there is no contradiction between the bill and also the pursuance of the settlement of historical grievances. In addressing the other part of the member’s question I think it may be useful to refer him to the document  
Healing the Past Building a Future 
 which sets out the Crown’s position and process on those matters and with the Speaker’s indulgence I would just like to read a very short passage in order to get that accurately. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has asked for leave to be given to read a short passage. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I wonder whether the Minister can confirm that the background to this problem lies with the settlement between the then National Government and Tainui in May 1995 for which that Government gave Doug Graham a knighthood for doing it and Bill Birch a knighthood for paying for it? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The first part of the question is in order. 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Yes it is undoubtedly true that the previous Government settled the easy bits and left the difficult bits for this Government. That is what National normally does. 
Mita Ririnui 
: What progress has been made in the negotiations with Tainui to settle its historical claims? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: There are ongoing discussions between Crown officials and representatives of the Tainui iwi focusing on issues around mandating and the Crown’s preference to deal with comprehensive claims from large natural groups. To date no mandating document has been received by the Government. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Can the Minister tell the House when the policy decision was taken to transfer fee simple title over water bodies to tangata whenua such asthe return of Okahu Bay to NgatiWhatua and of Lake Ellesmere to KaiTahu as part of their negotiated treaty settlements; and has that policy now changed? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: It is true that the previous Government in settling the NgaiTahu claim had no difficulty at all in transferring ownership of those matters; nor did it in the matter of Lake Taupo. In terms of the policy changing no there is no change in policy. We negotiate with the claimants and on the basis of those negotiations come to a fair settlement. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: How can any New Zealander have confidence that should the Foreshore and Seabed Bill pass substantial parts of the New Zealand coastline will remain in Crown ownership when today she has told the House she is in negotiations to deliver some of the seabed and foreshore of this country into private Maori ownership? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I did not say that. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We should be able to get from Ministers good information that leads to other questions. In that answer the Minister said that negotiations between the Crown and Tainui are continuing over that matter. The question came from Mita Ririnui. The Minister had previously said she would not reveal the content of the negotiations or have matters negotiated in the House. I simply asked whether that was effectively what was happening and the Minister gave a very bland answer like that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not need any assistance. The Minister denied the member’s premise and that is an answer.