Brooking Rachel; Abel Steve; Brown SimeonHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour—Dunedin): Thank you Mr Chair meitaki. This is my first contribution on Part 2 of this bill and we are still on Subpart 1 of Part 2. I want to start at a fairly high level and then I've got some more specific questions. But we've heard from the Minister of Local Government in the Part 1 debate that this legislation is mysteriously going to help our councils. And I say mysteriously" because I never got an answer to how that was going to happen.But here we are in Part 2 of the debate and we see that councils are going to have to do these water service delivery plans. And that is what we are debating right now: the water service delivery plans. We've heard from the Minister he said "Well the previous Government's approach it was top down." There was one $120 billion minimum—figures derived from as the Hon Barbara Edmonds has pointed out information gathered from councils. The Minister says "That doesn't work. That's top down. We need bottom up. And so how we're going to do bottom up is we're going to ask councils for this information to make the plans."We've had discussions in this debate which I won't repeat but there's been questions about—well what are the time frames for these plans and where are councils going to get the information for the plans? And the Minister has replied "Well there's going to be an Excel spreadsheet. It's going to be really easy for the councils to do this. They can decide their own time frames because of course that is in the long-term plans and it's up to them."We've heard questions on—well what is the planning for hazards and climate change? We know that a whole lot of this infrastructure is in areas where there will be sea-level rise. We know that a whole lot of this infrastructure is in areas where there are heavier rainfalls. I think the Minister's answer has been "Well it's just up to councils. They can do what they like."So my questions assuming that I am correct in my summation there of where the Minister's thinking is—and he said there's going to be a third piece of legislation that's going to work with regulation. I can only assume that that regulation will be something about water meters given the comments in the regulatory impact statement and of course the blocked out bits of the funding constraints that we've covered as well.Clause 8 is the clause that sets out—it's the primary clause in this part about what is going to be in these water service delivery plans. It's for the council to meet regulations but the plan also has to be financially sustainable for that council—there's "ands" in this clause—and it has to meet water quality standards and it has to supports the council's housing growth and urban development. I think this is where the Minister before said that the climate change piece fits in. But what happens when you can't do "and and and and"? What happens then? Is there a hierarchy in this? What are the Minister's expectations? I know this Government likes to talk a lot about balance. How is the council to implement when we hear over and over again that there are all these councils that simply cannot afford to provide this necessary infrastructure? What happens when there is a conflict between those Roman numerals in clause 8(1)(b)?Then of course we know and we see in clause 18 that there is a process—and there's been some discussion about central government needing to approve these plans. So that's at clause 18. And at subclause (4): the councils "must comply with the requirement to amend and resubmit a plan by the date specified." A question to the minister here a very specific question: are there any parameters for that and does that relate to the hierarchy or is there any hierarchy back in clause 8? So I think that relationship between clauses 8 and 18 is very important.Very quickly I'd remind the Minister of that very good point raised by Dr Duncan Webb about when councils aren't contiguous—what happens then? And specifically what happens—[Bell rung] Mr Chair?CHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono): Hon Rachel Brooking.Hon RACHEL BROOKING: I'll be very very quick with this—rounding up my contribution here. What happens with those councils in Northland? We've got that block with Auckland happening. Can they join with other councils? What is the thinking that's gone in into that? So I would very much like some answers on those questions.STEVE ABEL (Green): Kia ora Mr Chair thank you. I want to take it back to the beginning of Part 2.Ryan Hamilton: Genesis.STEVE ABEL: I do want to take it back to Genesis in a sense the genesis of our nationhood because you could say that we have a Government that's busy kind of trying to rewrite Genesis if you like trying to omit Genesis and burn it and remove it from various bits of legislation. I'm here to save the Minister of Local Government from this terrible omission of our founding agreement Te Tiriti o Waitangi. I know that members on the other side their better instincts are not to deny Te Tiriti not to undermine it not to eat away at it and so I have prepared Minister—and I know you've earlier suggested that you don't want to accept this amendment but I would make a case to you Minister that it would be a major improvement to the legislation if you did put Te Tiriti o Waitangi in there. I've got the perfect place for it: it can come under Subpart 1 in Part 2 in clause 8 "Territorial authority must prepare water services delivery plan". In clause 8 at subparagraph (v) we can insert "upholds the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Te Tiriti o Waitangi—you could omit the term "the principles" we'd be happy with that; you could just say "uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi"—"and is consistent with any obligations arising under a Treaty settlement Act or Treaty settlement deed.Subclause (2)(a) of this clause could rightly also have "Treaty settlement Act means an Act listed in Schedule 3 of the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975 or any other Act that provides redress for Treaty of Waitangi claims including Acts that provide collective redress or participation arrangements for claimant groups whose claims are or are to be settled by another Act including the Maori Commercial Aquaculture Claims Settlement Act 2004 the Ngā Mana Whenua o Tāmaki Makauru Collective Redress Act 2014 the Nga Wai o Maniapoto (Waipa River) Act 2012 the Ngati Tuwharetoa Raukawa and Te Arawa River Iwi Waikato River Act 2010 and the Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act 1992."And finally "the Treaty settlement deed means a deed or other agreement that has been signed by or on behalf of a Minister of the Crown and representatives of a group of Māori and is in settlement of the claims of that group or in express anticipation or on account of that settlement but does not include an agreement in principle or any document that is preliminary to a signed and ratified deed."We've taken some time with this Minister and I would invite you to consider again accepting this amendment and I would invite your colleagues opposite given the importance of this legislation—CHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono): It's important that you direct your comments to the Chair not to the Minister directly. So you're having a conversation with me yep.STEVE ABEL: Pardon me—pardon me Mr Chair. The advantage of adding in this Treaty clause is significant in the context of the thing we're talking about which is wai—water—that fundamental resource on which we all depend but which we must acknowledge is enshrined in our founding agreement as a taonga as a treasure that belongs to tangata whenua. To omit Te Tiriti in that upholding of the recognition of Māori say and access and self-determination in the management of their lands' resources is a serious omission and one that we believe the Minister should seriously consider correcting for the good of our nationhood. That is my submission.Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government): Thank you Mr Chair and I thank the members for the questions. The questions from the Hon Rachel Brooking: there is no hierarchy in clause 8 and that is an important point. Those are all elements in terms of what must be repaired as part of those water service delivery plans. In terms of the question around the Treaty of Waitangi we've already outlined the Government's position on that in relation to the Amendment Paper No. 70."