O'Rourke Denis: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeO'Rourke Denis: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 27 August 2013. Volume:693;Page:12946. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]12.DENIS O’ROURKE (NZ First) to thePrime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Yes.Denis O’Rourke: Will he be using Peter Dunne’s Flexi Super scheme to cut superannuation taken before 65 as an excuse to break his election pledge that “I will resign as Prime Minister and from Parliament if I cut super”?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I am not sure whether the member understands the principle behind Flexi Super but if that policy was to be implemented if any New Zealander wanted to continue to take their full New Zealand superannuation at the age of 65 that would be available to them. In my book that does not break any promises.Denis O’Rourke: Does he agree with Grey Power president Roy Reid who slammed the proposal as a cruel poverty trap and that it is “… one of the more cynical cruel and dangerous bits of stupidity I have heard in a very long time.”; if not why not?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No I think Roy was confused. He was clearly reading the New Zealand First manifesto.Denis O’Rourke: I seek leave to table a letter from Grey Power on what it costs today for elderly people to live.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that letter from Grey Power. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Denis O’Rourke: I seek leave to table a document from the Parliamentary Library based on a minimum income for healthy-living older New Zealanders ageing in society—Mr SPEAKER: Order! If it is a document prepared by the Parliamentary Library it is available to any member who wants it.Denis O’Rourke: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a document prepared by the Parliamentary Library based on that document.Mr SPEAKER: Is it prepared specifically for the member?Denis O’Rourke: It is.Mr SPEAKER: On that basis I will put the leave. That is the easiest way to solve it. Leave is sought to table a document prepared by the Parliamentary Library specifically for Denis O’Rourke. Is there any objection to that document being tabled? Yes there is.Denis O’Rourke: Does the Prime Minister agree with retirement policy director MichaelLittlewood who said: “Those at the bottom end will not have the information they will need to make informed decisions and will have fewer financial choices. Having made their decisions they will be stuck with them until they die.”; if not why not?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well firstly let me just remind the member that it is a discussion document so let us see what happens from there. But I do agree with one thing MrLittlewood said and that is that yes if they elect to take their New Zealand superannuation earlier at a lower rate they would be stuck with that for the rest of their life. That is a decision that they would be making. But if one was just to take a 2-second step back and look at the merits of this type of policy what it would show is that there is quite a bit of merit as opposed to the crazy policy that the Labour Party is proposing which is to raise the age of superannuation to every New Zealander by 2 years. Thereason for that is that it may well be that someone who is in a very physical job actually cannot easily continue to work—Hon David Cunliffe: Far-sighted leadership!Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well it would be really interesting whether when David Cunliffe becomes the leader—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Prime Minister has given quite a long and lengthy answer.Denis O’Rourke: Does the Prime Minister agree with retirement policy director Susan St John that the Flexi Super scheme could turn out to be a very expensive one for the taxpayer because many low-income people attracted to the option to retire at 60 on significantly lower rates would inevitably need social welfare top-ups; if not why not?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well firstly they would not have to retire. People who take New Zealand superannuation today do not retire so it would be entirely up to them. Yes of course they are all the sorts of things that have to be considered but I would have thought that a lot of New Zealanders—some of them as I say who are in physical jobs—do not necessarily want to work until they are 65 because their body is breaking down and it is more challenging for them to do so. Whereas there are many other people who are for instance not doing a hell of a lot. Say for instance they are in the New Zealand First caucus—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! And now that answer is quite sufficient as well.Denis O’Rourke: Given that I would much rather be in the New Zealand First caucus than the National one I ask does he recognise that the Dunne scheme amounts to a tax dodge to favour high-income earners who do not need superannuation payments while still working and who are being taxed at a higher rate and who will wait until they are not earning before taking more superannuation and paying less tax on it?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No and I do not want to get terribly personal but I do not know whether he has noticed that his leader is 68. He will actually be 70 at the next election—Denis O’Rourke: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have a point of order and I will hear it in silence.Denis O’Rourke: I would appreciate the Prime Minister answering the question rather than reflecting on the ages of people for whom he has no prime—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I invite the member to look atHansard at the end of question time. He asked whether the Prime Minister recognised a tax scheme and the Prime Minister started his answer by saying that no he does not.Denis O’Rourke: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. What you have just said does not deal with the point of order that I raised. The point of order that I raised was that the Prime Minister has no prime ministerial responsibility for the age of any person in this Parliament and I request that he specifically answer the question that I actually asked.Mr SPEAKER: Two points on that. I have already ruled that the Prime Minister did specifically answer the question that was raised. With regard to the second point I invite the member to have a look at the way he asked the supplementary question. He talked about the privilege of being in the New Zealand First caucus rather than in a National caucus as he prefaced his question.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would challenge that ruling because the point that Mr O’Rourke made was in response to a quip by the Prime Minister—and it was not offensive but you know it deserved a response. It deserved a response. It did not justify the later reference that Mr O’Rourke complained about.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well as someone who certainly does not want to prolong proceedings here today I do think it worth noting that in the Prime Minister’s answer he simply pointed out a perfect example of the sort of dodgy tax behaviour that Mr O’Rourke was alleging some pensioners might engage in.Tracey Martin: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will hear from Tracey Martin.Tracey Martin: My understanding is that we do not bring other members of this House into disrepute in any way and I would suggest that Mr Brownlee’s suggestion—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! To mention a person’s age does not bring that person into disrepute in my opinion.Denis O’Rourke: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: I will hear the final point of order—let us hope that it is a serious one—from Denis O’Rourke.Denis O’Rourke: It is a serious one. If the Prime Minister cannot answer the question why does he not just say so?Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is the sort of behaviour that will have the member not remaining in the House. I said to the member—and I invited the member to look atHansard—that the Prime Minister did answer the question.