7. Question No. 7—TransportHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green) to the Minister of TransportQuestion No. 7—TransportHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green): Point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave to ask my question to the Minister of Finance as lodged as it is about a statement that he made that has financial implications.SPEAKER: The Government can transfer questions to the Minister they think best appropriate to answer that question. So that's what's been done.7. Hon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green) to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by the Minister of Finance's statement about half-price public transport this is a very expensive policy. And what it does is it robs the fund that funds our roads"; if so why?Hon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport): I agree with the statement in its full context which refers to the need to balance the benefits of our policies with the costs. Within that our Government has focused strongly on maintaining the roading network increasing investment in maintenance by nearly 50 percent after it was frozen by the previous Government. But at the same time we have invested hugely in public transport lifting the National Land Transport Fund contribution to public transport from $1.9 billion in the 2015-18 period to $3.1 billion in the 2018-21 period and $5 billion in the 2021-24 period. As the member will be aware we have also committed to a permanent investment in the Community Connect scheme which will provide permanent half-price public transport fares for the lowest-income New Zealanders from 2023.Hon Julie Anne Genter: Does he then agree that the reduction in fuel tax and road-user charges "robbed the National Land Transport Fund to a much greater extent as that costs ten times more that half-price public transport"?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I would not agree with that assessment because as part of the policy to reduce fuel excise duty and road-user charges to provide financial support to New Zealanders the Crown provided supplementary funding to ensure that the National Land Transport Fund is able to move forward on a fully funded basis.Hon Julie Anne Genter: Does he stand by the Minister of Finance's comment that the half-price public transport policy is expensive when its annual cost is less than 3 percent of the total annual transport budget a tiny fraction of the money being spent on roads?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: It's expensive to the extent that it's likely to cost on an annual basis approximately $130 million to $150 million per year so that is the kind of investment that we need to consider carefully. Again I note for the member that the total public transport expenditure that is occurring under the current National Land Transport Fund is $5 billion over the current three-year period. Fare subsidy is not the only part of the public transport system that we put investment into and we do need to balance those investments across the different needs in public transport. Yes fares have a role to play and that's why we're moving forward with Community Connect. It's also why we've invested $61 million in bus drivers' pay and conditions—because there's no public transport without bus drivers. That's why we've invested $350 million as we announced at the weekend to make sure that more Kiwis have access to public transport in their communities though the Transport Choices package. So we will keep making those investments including making sure that fares are struck at a fair and appropriate rate.Hon Julie Anne Genter: Does he agree that reducing public transport fares benefits not only those users during a time of high fuel costs and other high costs of living but also other road users because it helps reduce congestion and our emissions from transport?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I thank the member for her question. I agree with that assertion to the extent that reduced fares do play a role in achieving mode shift—that is encouraging more people on to public transport. We do have to be rigorous and based on the evidence when we're making these assessments. The evidence that Waka Kotahi has assessed through the course of the half-price public transport programme which has been important in terms of addressing cost of living pressures is that it may have increased public transport patronage by around about 7 to 8 percent with roughly half of that coming from private vehicle users and half of it coming from walkers and cyclists. So as we move forward and make challenging financial trade-offs and decisions that is the kind of evidence we need to consider in terms of assessing whether that is the best investment for the public transport dollar or whether there are other parts of the system that are better placed to receive that investment.Hon Julie Anne Genter: Has he seen that not one but two polls of New Zealanders have confirmed 80 percent support for making half-price public transport permanent and what does he say to those users who have massively benefited from this if he's not going to extend it?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Yes I have seen that poll and it's no surprise to me that a policy that makes something cheaper for people will receive broad support but as a Government we have to take the evidence into account and make sure that we're getting the best value for money. We could ask in a poll for example for people to make the trade-off and the choice between lower fares for everyone versus perhaps lower fares for those who need it most and more money to deliver more services into communities that don't have public transport. Those are the sort of real choices that we have to make with the investment we put into the public transport system.Hon Julie Anne Genter: So can I just clarify that he's really saying that $100 million to $120 million a year less than 3 percent of the annual transport budget is expensive but that over a billion dollars subsidising petrol and driving is not and is a good and appropriate way to help New Zealanders?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: No that's not an accurate characterisation of what I said. Of course there isn't a contention on the table from the member that we carry that part of the reductions forward either. What I am saying is that the $130 million to $150 million estimated to carry that policy forward on a permanent basis is a significant investment and we need to consider carefully whether it is the best investment. What I've outlined in the course of these questions is some of the evidence we have before us. As I say the evidence that has been put in front of me is that it achieves approximately a 7 percent to 8 percent mode shift and some of the other evidence I've seen suggests that we can achieve a greater level of mode shift—that is encouraging more people on to public transport—by better provision of reliable frequent and accessible services. Those are the kinds of difficult choices that we need to make but we do continue to be sensitive to the impact of fares. That as I say is why we are targeting in the Community Connect scheme next year to give 1 million New Zealanders on the lowest incomes half-price public transport fares. I believe that is a good step forward. It will mean that people like me won't get half-price public transport but that Kiwis who need it most will."