English Bill: General DebateText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeEnglish Bill: General Debate[Sitting date: 28 May 2014. Volume:699;Page:18399. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister): I moveThat the House take note of miscellaneous business. Emerging out of the fog is the shape of the Opposition monster that is going to put itself before the New Zealand public. Well what we do know is that the public need to trust the Opposition so let us just have a quick look at whom it might be. The Labour leader David Cunliffe knows about trust because he has got a secret one and he still will not reveal the donors to his secret trust. He is going to be in coalition with the “cash-for-clemency” Green Party which went to the Dotcom mansion and promised that it would oppose the extradition of Kim Dotcom in return for something and we are not sure what that is. So the leader with the secret trust is in coalition with the party with the cashed-up clemency and that still does not get them there. We then have to add on—Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister is making an allegation of corruption. I take offence—Mr SPEAKER: Order! There was no allegation of corruption that I heard. This is a robust general debate. The member will have his opportunity to respond.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Can I just clarify that this is not in any way relitigating a ruling I have just made.Dr Russel Norman: I am seeking a clarification as to whether you believe “cashed-up clemency” is an allegation of corruption.Mr SPEAKER: Order! No I do not.Hon BILL ENGLISH: You have to add—Hon Trevor Mallard: That’s outrageous!Mr SPEAKER: Order!Hon BILL ENGLISH: Ha! Coming from Trevor Mallard! What you then need to add to that mix is New Zealand’s first—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am sorry to interrupt the member. Would the Hon Trevor Mallard stop that barracking and get himself under control; otherwise he will be asked to leave the Chamber.Hon BILL ENGLISH: Well it is a bit rich hearing the “Member for Outrageous Lies” getting upset.Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is a point of order.Grant Robertson: There are two points of order. The first of those is that the last comment by the Minister of Finance was completely outside of the Standing Orders. The second is that previously just recently you have ruled in this House about the kinds of comments that will lead to disorder. Mr English’s initial comment about so-called cashed-up clemency clearly is within the realms of one of those. It is disparaging towards members in the House in the same way—[Interruption] They are very quiet during the point of order here as usual. That is in the same way that you accused Opposition members of doing last week.Hon Gerry Brownlee: It would be inappropriate to rule out “cash for clemency” or “clemency cash payments” for example while the House has been so ready to listen to allegations from the Opposition of cash for access.Mr SPEAKER: The House does need to settle down. The final comment that I heard from Bill English was not going to lead to disorder. I am not sure whom it was directed to or whether anybody took offence. That would be one way of moving it forward. But I ask the whole House to tone itself down and for Bill English to be allowed to continue his contribution.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is a point of order. I require it to be heard in silence.Hon Trevor Mallard: You heard the Minister address a member of this House as the “Member for Outrageous Lies”. That is unparliamentary. No one—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have just addressed that. It was a remark that will lead to disorder; I accept that. I do not know whom it was directed to—[Interruption] I am deciding this not the Hon Trevor Mallard. If it was directed to someone who took offence then that person can stand and acknowledge they have taken offence and then I might be inclined to ask the member to withdraw it. I do not think it was directed at anybody but I am unsure of that. At this stage the House needs to settle down. This is a general debate which is always going to be a lively debate and we are not going to get much further if we are going to have pointless points of order attempting to interrupt a member’s speech.Grant Robertson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will hear Grant Robertson but it will be heard in silence.Grant Robertson: Bill English quite clearly said “That’s rich coming from Trevor Mallard the ‘Member for Outrageous Lies’.” That is what he said.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I did not hear that interjection. If Mr Mallard heard it and he has taken offence he knows the way to progress this.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am getting to the stage where my patience is running very thin with this waste of time in the general debate. I will hear from the Hon Trevor Mallard.Hon Trevor Mallard: I take offence at that outrageous—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. The Hon Trevor Mallard has taken offence at a comment made by the Hon Bill English. I ask him to stand withdraw and apologise.Hon BILL ENGLISH: I withdraw and apologise.Mr SPEAKER: Thank you. The member can continue his speech.Hon BILL ENGLISH: Then we add to the mix New Zealand’s first foreign-owned political party the Mana party. It wants to ban foreign owners of houses; we want to ban foreign owners of political parties. It is a party that I understand has received $500000 and is going to join an alliance.That is before you get to New Zealand First. All we can say about New Zealand First is that when it is not making gratuitous and excessive allegations about members of Parliament the like of which I have never heard in the House before it is being investigated for the dodgy use of parliamentary cash.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I can anticipate the point of order. I call the Rt Hon Winston Peters.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I am asking that Minister to withdraw and apologise.Mr SPEAKER: And I agree. I will ask—[Interruption] Order! I will ask him to do so. The Hon Bill English will stand withdraw and apologise for that remark. It is an investigation that has nothing to do with this House. It is a matter for me to determine. The Hon Bill English will stand withdraw and apologise.Hon BILL ENGLISH: I withdraw and apologise. If that collection of individuals—Hon Steven Joyce: Thin-skinned individuals.Hon BILL ENGLISH: —clearly thin-skinned individuals. Imagine how they will get on with each other when it comes to—[Interruption] We will start with the Labour Party members and how they are getting on with each other. Let us listen to Labour’s immigration policy. On Saturday onThe Nation David Cunliffe said that the Labour Government tried to manage immigration of say between 5000 and 15000 net positive. On Monday 25 May Phil Twyford said on Radio New Zealand National that David Cunliffe had said that weekend that Labour will get to a stable number between 5000 and 15000 net migration. This is starting to sound like a coherent policy with some numbers. We have not had one of those before. But on Tuesday—oh wait! To bad weather and such disappointment David Cunliffe said those were not his words and that was not Labour’s position. And there we were thinking that it had finally got it together. Further pressed on what Labour’s net migration target would be he had a better idea: “We’d have to work that out.” So that is what you do. You announce the policy make sure your spokesman endorses it change it say you did not have one and then at the end of it say “No we haven’t talked about a numerical target.”OK so now we have got a four-party mixed-ownership model coalition partly foreign-owned—the mixed-ownership model. It could be 15 percent foreign ownership. Our target was always 85 percent New Zealand ownership and I think—Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Of all the offences the worst one that one can allege against another party is that it is foreign-owned. That is against the Standing Orders and has been for decades.Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat. This is a general debate.Hon BILL ENGLISH: Clearly the economic caucus of that Opposition being Kim Dotcom the secret leader of the Mana party—no is it the Internet Mana—