Rurawhe Adrian; Seymour DavidURGENT DEBATESMinisterial Resignation—Hon Kiritapu AllanSPEAKER: I have received a letter from David Seymour seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the resignation of the Hon Kiritapu Allan as a Minister. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. Not every ministerial resignation warrants an urgent debate; however debates have generally been allowed where the actions of a Minister have raised questions of probity. Therefore I call on David Seymour to move that the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT): Thank you Mr Speaker. I move That the House take note of a matter of urgent public importance.This resignation signifies a very human tragedy wrapped up in a Government in disarray. The events surrounding Kiri Allan's resignation are sad. She is a person who I think most members would agree was someone of great talent and promise and yet something that few of us understand has gone wrong and led to these tragic events. It is critical that the public understands what has happened because for the probity of Ministers and ultimately the respect of the public on this House it's just not acceptable to have a Minister of the Crown who is breaking multiple laws on one night—who is driving while over the limit or at least the infringement offence limit for alcohol consumption and who has resisted arrest while serving as the Minister of Justice. Those are things that despite the clear human tragedy at the centre of this resignation the people deserve an explanation for in order to uphold the probity of ministerial warrants and this House. It is also absolutely critical that people understand the circumstances in which this person was put into this tragic position because while it is a human tragedy it is also the case that it comes after a cascade of missteps and administrative bungles by this Government that are accumulating—along with the costs and the frustration faced by New Zealanders who put their trust in this Government. We now have a Government that has no more gas left in the tank. It can't even field a full Cabinet. The fact that Kiri Allan will not be replaced in Cabinet raises questions over whether or not this Labour Party has the talent to field a full team and whether or not she felt pressure to remain on the field because they simply did not have any subs on the bench capable of doing the job. It has led to one person holding the justice portfolio and the police portfolio. That is a real problem for New Zealand or any democratic nation because the Minister of Justice is accountable for upholding those parts of the apparatus of State that uphold in turn the rule of law. The Minister of Police is responsible for advocating for the police who have to be restrained by that same rule of law. When a person is put in both positions that creates a conflict of interest. And unfortunately conflicts of interest have led to much of the difficulty that this Government has.It might have been possible to find someone to replace Kiri Allan as the justice Minister from within the Cabinet. An obvious choice would be somebody in the form of the Attorney-General who is a lawyer. Perhaps that person could have helped. However unfortunately it was found that he was already busy with other jobs. Or perhaps he just doesn't want any job but doesn't even want to be the Minister of Revenue. Perhaps if it wasn't for the Natural and Built Environment Bill he would be off completely.You see since the Prime Minister said she had no gas in the tank" back in January there have been a total of five ministerial departures or resignations in just seven months. First there was our Prime Minister—which we can come back to—then there was Stuart Nash who was found to be leaking information to donors in breach of Cabinet confidentiality. And then there was Meka Whaitiri who was planning to jump ship to another political party and the Prime Minister knew nothing about it. And then there was Michael Wood the guy who had a conflict of interest with his ministerial portfolios that he failed to declare—and when asked not once not twice but over a dozen times to resolve that conflict of interest he didn't do it. So Michael Wood is gone. And now sadly we see the departure of Kiritapu Allan.This is a Government that simply cannot hold it together. And people are right to ask: how can a Government so incapable of managing itself be asked to manage the many problems that New Zealanders face with the inflation that ravages the cost of living the lawlessness that ravages our streets. It was astonishing just a moment ago we had what's called a "patsy question": a backbench Labour MP asking the Minister of Justice—or was it the Minister of Police? I think it was Justice; it's hard to know—what is being done about gangs. What the Minister may not have known is that just an hour earlier Sylvia Park was stormed by armed police followed by ambulance officers because two gang—Hon Grant Robertson: Point of order Mr Speaker. Speakers' rulings and Standing Orders are clear around debates of matters of urgent public importance. They are specific to the matters that are in the letter for the debate. While I know there needs to be a time for context I believe after listening to the seven or so minutes that the member has been speaking—the vast bulk of his contribution—his speech has not been about the resignation of the Minister.SPEAKER: Yes I'd have to agree with that summation of the contribution so far. I will ask the member to speak to the topic of the urgent debate. That's why I granted it. We've had quite a bit of stuff in there that is not related and the current topic certainly isn't a narration—unless he can bring it very quickly to the topic at hand then he should do so.DAVID SEYMOUR: Thank you Mr Speaker. I note that my letter did include the conflict created by one person holding both positions and my letter also pointed to the—SPEAKER: I just warn the member: he's having a habit of really commenting on the ruling I've just made. I'm well aware of what the application was. You don't need to—in a way which I think is disrespectful to this House—comment on that and I'd ask him to stop doing it.DAVID SEYMOUR: Thank you Mr Speaker. The resignation of Kiritapu Allan has occurred in a context. It's occurred in a context of the management of people. It has occurred in a context where a person facing serious challenges was asked to work at full tilt. Having been under question for the challenges that she was personally facing she was returned to work where she carried out a heavy schedule of announcements in the run up to an election which amounted to reversing the positions that she as a Minister in her Government had been required to uphold for years as a Government and for years in her case as a Minister. That could only reflect back on the nature of the Government the culture that had been imbued in it and the leadership that it had. We cannot escape the fact that this tragic sequence of events is inextricably linked to the context of that workplace.We cannot avoid the fact that we have had a Government that for a long time has sought to make policy based on the hope that if only they announce that many houses would be built it would happen. When you have a Government that constantly tries to ensure that things will happen simply by wishing it so the frustration that amounts the problems that arise in the public domain the pressure that comes back on to Ministers as a result. Well unfortunately all of those things which fully reflect upon the Government have been contributing factors to this particular tragic sequence of events. The Government has lost a Minister in highly questionable circumstances that bring into question ministerial probity—not just because of that individual's choices which are clearly wrong and for which she has apologised lost her job and moved on. But they have occurred in the context of a Government that is failing at multiple levels and cannot be a good place for a Minister to be where there is not a replacement to come on—all of these things Mr Speaker.I can understand why the Minister of Finance doesn't want to hear them but nevertheless they remain true. They are the true context in which these events occurred. It is simply the case that what we find ourselves with now as New Zealanders is a Government that can at best be described as a caretaker Government: one that cannot field a full team one that cannot manage itself—let alone the challenges of inflation of lawlessness and of division that have grown up like mushrooms under this Government. Failing and lacking the ability to manage itself or any of the problems that New Zealanders face this Government will now amble towards 14 October and at that time people facing these problems—this inflation this lawlessness and this division—will have to ask themselves: are they not better with a new team? Is it not possible that New Zealanders can hope to see a Government focused not on itself and its multiple losses of personnel but instead focused on their problems and on solving them with practical solutions that aren't satisfied simply with sounding good but actually work? That is the challenge that is now before New Zealanders. That is what this unfortunate sequence of events has brought about and that is the arena into which ACT enters to provide a better solution a better way forward and one that is not going to be so tragically negligent of people that come to serve in the Government.I finish by giving my best wishes and regards to Kiritapu Allan at a personal level. She is a person that I have known and interacted with over the years and found to be a good person a person of great intelligence and capability. She has chosen a course and I respect obviously and would like to support from afar that choice that she makes. We wish her all of the best and we hope that all people who come here to do the job can find themselves in a circumstance where they can make a difference as part of a strong team that is responsive to the problems and challenges New Zealand face and put in place coherent solutions that actually solve those problems. Thank you very much Mr Speaker."