Brownlee GerryHon GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam): In his most recent contribution the Minister said that he was answering all the questions that were asked of us as we were talking about the movement of money that might be considered an anonymous donation. And then the Minister pointed to the various duties that will fall upon the general secretaries or appropriate persons authorised persons inside political parties to ascertain where that donation came from. So the question I've got is: if the donation came from a trust or from a foundation or from a political action group or any other third-party group set up to support a particular type of politics and that particular entity only—Rt Hon Winston Peters: You wouldn't know the law at all would you? You're worse than that woodwork teacher.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Winston hates the workers; it's unbelievable actually. Can we go into that? I'm responding to an interjection now.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Sorry can we stop the time. Now you're a senior member of this House sir and you know that to sit there and throw abuse across the Chamber—personal abuse—is not within the Standing Orders and I'd ask you to stop because all it does is lead to disorder. [Interruption] I'm on my feet and I'm asking the member to please not throw personal insults across the Chamber that will only lead to more disorder.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Just to recap: if an external group separate from a political party decides to make a donation to that political party and the general secretary or the authorised person responsible in the party asks the question Where did the donation come from?" well is there a problem if in fact all that foundation is doing is distributing interest earnt on donations that are made to it. If it is in fact the capital fund as our foundation is and that donation is made is there a requirement to go further than knowing that it was interest earnt on anonymous donations or donations to that political group that funding group. Because there'd be no need for that group under this law to declare those donations. No need whatsoever. They don't need to. But in the case of the National Party they do. We have no problem whatsoever. That's all right Mr Peters. We're not the people that are running around at the moment trying to pretend that $840000 worth of anonymous donations apparently came from the voting base of New Zealand First in small donations. If it was $50 it'd mean 17000 people had to donate to New Zealand First. That's more than half the people who voted for them.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. He has clearly got in to an area that's not remotely connected with this bill and you sit there and allow him to get away with it. Well we are not going to sit here while he abridges the Standing Orders because he doesn't have the intellectual capacity to understand what his parameters are. We are going to stop him. But what he's actually doing is digging a hole and telling you all about the National Party and the way they operate. And I want to thank him very much for that context but it's outside the Standing Orders in terms of the subject of this debate: Part 1 of this bill.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Well if the member had been paying attention to me I was signalling to the member that he had to come back to the bill. Up until his last sentence he was actually asking the Minister a question that was relevant to the bill. But he did vary off that and I was signalling to him quite clearly to come back to the bill. So I am capable of doing this job.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: In my own defence I was simply responding to a—what's it called?—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Interjection.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: —interjection from the other side of the Chamber. I was trying to find a more fluid word. The question still remains for the Minister to perhaps tell us if this amendment from Dr Smith is not to be supported then what is there to stop a third-party political action group of some kind—trust foundation whatever you want to call it—receiving anonymous donations putting them into a capital fund and then making donations in their own name on the interest earned on those funds to any political party. And if the obligation on the general secretary or authorised person in each case simply says—sorry.I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. Can we stop the clock? I called the point of order a good five seconds ago—six seconds actually. Why are we unable to respond to the interjections coming from the Deputy Prime Minister?CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): You haven't been stopped.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: He's also talking to the gallery which I think you might have noticed. Oh I'm not worried now. OK.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Is there a point of order?Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: There is.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): You are able to respond but it's brief. As I said before of course you can respond but you keep it brief. Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Well perhaps I'll take another call and you'll be generous enough to let me have it.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Well you haven't finished this one yet. Are we going?Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Can we go back five seconds?CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Ha ha! No keep going.Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: Then the question simply is: what would that situation be? Would it mean that the general secretary's obligations are discharged simply by being told it is from the earnings on a capital sum from this particular organisation? Where in the bill does it say that it should be greater scrutiny than that?Hon Dr Nick Smith: Madam Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Dr Smith you've had four speeches already."