SpeechHon KIRITAPU ALLAN (Minister of Justice): I think I've got all the information from my friend. Hopefully it was provided to you as well through the select committee process. I apologise if it wasn't.So first just want to draw on a comment from one of the submitters. She was a mental health nurse and it relates back to the case I just provided before with the mental health patient who was an outpatient who committed that offence of robbery. My understanding is that there was quite a significant rap sheet that he had as well which is how he got up for that third offence and that maximum penalty for robbery of 10 years in contrast to the sentencing indication which was 18 months. Now in that case there was a mental health patient—and had severe health issues broadly noted by all—that took that case through. That same factual scenario gave me pause to consider the submission from a mental health practitioner who gave evidence through the submission process who spoke about a majority if not all of her clients had significant rap sheets lengthy—lengthy—rap sheets. Not all of them of course were serious offences. Often she said that there were traffic offences that resulted in fines and the cumulative effects could result in a raft of different things from you know travelling in vehicles without licensing etc. etc. It was a slippery slope. But she said that that was one of the—I guess it was a frequent factor in the clients that she was working with as a mental health practitioner.So if I then look at OK well how many offences did each of these people have that came up for their second or so offence? Oh there's an average of 20 to 30. When you start to look at the types of offences were they all serious offences? No not at all. Were some of those offences serious? I'm sure that they would have been. I'm sure that you'll be able to find factual scenarios that support them.When we get to the third offences it goes up even further you're absolutely right—can get up to 60 offences. Again when you start to look into the depth of the types of offending that occurred as that mental health practitioner who gave evidence at the select committee hearing said her clients that she dealt with in and out of the system lengthy rap sheets not all serious offending. Carry that through to therefore cases like in the Queen v Fitzgerald when they are going to incarcerate or when they apply the third-strike principle and that's where you get that big discussion about whether or not this is a proportionate limitation with respect to sentencing. This is where there has been so much I guess reflection and cause for concern. The Opposition keeps saying they can't hear the evidence. Well I don't know who else you get evidence from but from those that deal with these issues day in day out on the coalface. My friend referenced a police officer that gave evidence. I understand some police officers gave evidence during the submission process with contrary views as to whether or not the third strikes regime was useful. Those issues though are by the by.If I come through and look at Part 2 of the Amendments to other legislation Part 2's again very limited in its effect. All that Part 2 does—and Part 2 is the subject of our debate now—is it amends other legislation. All that Part 2 does is it removes a reference to strike warnings in said Act whether that's the Criminal Procedure Act whether that's the Evidence Act whether that's the Parole Act etc. That is what Part 2 does. This isn't an opportunity to give verbose reflections on whether or not like under Part 1—Hon Paul Goldsmith: Point of order Mr Speaker. As I'm sure you're aware it's not appropriate for a speaker to be giving rulings on what is or isn't appropriate for the House to be doing.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Responding to the point of order.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): No. No thank you.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Responding to the—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): No. Thank you.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Point of order Madam Speaker.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Yeah. I haven't finished responding to that one.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: He's sitting down.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): The member will resume her seat. Hon Paul Goldsmith had he finished his intervention? [Hon Paul Goldsmith nods] Thank you.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Responding to the point of order Madam Chair. My remarks are very squarely related to the Part 2 amendments to other legislation component that we've been debating this morning.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Yip. OK. That's enough. Thank you.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Thank you Madam Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): We'll start this clock again.Hon KIRITAPU ALLAN: Thank you Madam Chair. To assist the committee again I reiterate my remarks. Part 2 is a very limited part. It is concerned with amendments to other legislation. It removes references to strike warnings in a series of the Acts the Criminal Procedure Act the Evidence Act the Parole Act and a few other Acts there. This is what Part 2 does—it removes the reference to strike warnings.