Smith Stuart; McAnulty KieranSTUART SMITH (National—Kaikōura): Thank you Mr Chair. It's a pleasure to speak on this Water Services Legislation Bill which is not one we support. I want to ask the Minister about clause 5 around definitions in particular—clause 5(2)—In section 6 definition of stormwater network after paragraph (b) insert: (c) does not include a transport stormwater system".Now does that mean that stormwater coming off the road is a stormwater transport system? Is that the meaning of that particular clause? I would have thought that's the major carrier of the stormwater in our transport networks actually—the roads and carparks. We've heard that it's not in the rural area so that kind of makes sense. But in an urban area how do you define what's a transport water system—drainage system stormwater system—and what's stormwater? The water that comes off the roof of a house or off buildings would I would assume be the only other stormwater. So I would be quite interested in that definition.I know that turning back to rural water—in fact I'll come back to that later. I'm interested in that stormwater one. I think there's a massive issue with that in New Zealand because we actually haven't designed our roads from scratch in New Zealand; we haven't had a clean sheet of paper and started putting our roads out and said we're going to build them in such a way as to manage our stormwater in the most effective manner. They've essentially evolved over time and so we've ended up with an imperfect system. I think that would be a really good question. If we could have that answer we would really appreciate it.Hon EUGENIE SAGE (Green): Thank you Mr Chair. Staying with stormwater in the bill water services entities must have a comprehensive stormwater strategy. They've got to have a relationship with the relevant local authorities. And the bill also—because of the changes the committee made—has ensured that the water services entities have "primary responsibility for managing and maintaining watercourses that have a stormwater … function" including on private land.In a city like Ōtautahi Christchurch the city council has done a lot of work on the Ōtākaro and Ōpāwaho—Avon and Heathcote—rivers in terms of riparian planting improving the naturalness of the rivers putting in place rock to create riffles so that there's better habitat for fish. All of that work has been done to enhance the amenity of the river its natural functioning but the rivers also carry quite significant volumes of stormwater. In the bill it also provides that the entities can only charge properties for stormwater services where they are serviced by or within 100 metres of a stormwater network or in a particular geographic zone that receives benefits from that network.When a territorial authority is doing work to improve the functioning of a river or stream where it's doing riparian management and planting to safeguard water quality to provide for urban amenity how is the water services entity going to interact with the council? How is it going to charge for that work because the council can charge for it under a number of its functions. But if it's not primarily concerned with the conveyance of stormwater how is the entity going to recoup any costs involved and how are we going to ensure that there is a prospect of water-sensitive urban design and spongy cities being implemented by these entities when they are not associated with the land-use planning that is required to ensure that we move more towards those nature-based solutions?Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government): In regards to Melissa Lee's questions relating to the Treaty of Waitangi clause the section sets out what the Crown will do to give effect to the Treaty of Waitangi obligations. These sections are quite common in legislation and we believe it is consistent with previous approaches.In regards to Stuart Smith's question the bill provides that stormwater networks and transport corridors are managed separately. Roads while they are designed to channel water away are managed separately to the underlying stormwater network.And to the Hon Eugenie Sage's question I've sought advice on that given its technical nature but I'll get back to you when I receive it."