8. Question No. 8—AgricultureHon NATHAN GUY (National—Ōtaki) to the Minister of AgricultureQuestion No. 8—Agriculture8. Hon NATHAN GUY (National—Ōtaki) to the Minister of Agriculture: Does he stand by all his statements?Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture): Yes.Hon Nathan Guy: Does he stand by his statements in the House yesterday that were a capital gains to be brought in it may mean that farms are more affordable for young New Zealanders; if so what makes him think that a young farmer wants to purchase land with significant environmental taxes and a potential capital gains tax down the track?Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: I guess the member's referring to the independent report on taxation that has been put out by Michael Cullen and a group of people. The issue of affordability is something that has been referred to. There have been many many comments out around the country on that report and we welcome them. Most of them are sensible are considered—except those from the National Party. Can I say that I don't only rely on my own wisdom; I can refer to perhaps independent commentators who have referred to this particular issue. Dominick Stephens from Westpac in fact said the current 'uneven' tax system encourages investment heavily focused on capital gain rather than income generation such as residential property and farms and in effect turns people away from investing in more income-focused investments." That's just one of many many comments referring to the issue of affordability of farms.Hon Nathan Guy: Does he stand by his statement in relation to proposed taxes on farmers on RNZ this morning—and I'm going to quote—"We haven't been through the figures."; if so why hasn't he worked out the cost of these proposed figures on farmers and rural communities?Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: Because no decisions have been made on them.Hon Nathan Guy: What does the Minister say to reassure farmers like Federated Farmers Otago president Simon Davies who says after he's worked hard—Hon Shane Jones: Scaremongering. Making it up—making it up.Hon Nathan Guy: —and made short-term sacrifices—and I'll quote—"it would be very disappointing to find … the government then takes a third … when I sell it."?SPEAKER: Before the member answers I'm just going to indicate the National Party has an additional five supplementary questions as a result of the interjection from Mr Jones.Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: If that person was one of the 10 people that turned up to that member's meeting down in Otago all I'd suggest to him is that he does not listen to the figures put to him by Nathan Guy. I could refer to Stephen Bell who wrote in the Farmers Weekly "Young farmers still say finding affordable land particularly for dairy is the biggest obstacle to farm ownership. They attribute that to previous generations paying too much for land and banking on capital gains … farming needs to put its focus … on operating profit rather than long-term land value gains."Hon Nathan Guy: Why is he refuting our figures on this side of the House when he hasn't even done the figures himself or asked his officials to do any work on these proposals; and what does he say to Federated Farmers today who are out there saying that the National Party figures indeed may be a bit light?Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: Because I'm not prepared to stand up and lie to farmers like that member is.Hon Nathan Guy: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I've taken offence to that comment and I wish that that Minister should withdraw and apologise.SPEAKER: Yeah. I do want to think about it. I want to think about it. It's certainly an offence to indicate that a member has lied in the House. I'm going to get a little bit of advice. Traditionally it's not been an offence to—I muted my own mic. Traditionally it's not been an offence to indicate that people have told untruths deliberately outside the House but that was a pretty aggressive reflection on a member. I think I've worked myself to the point now where it was such a—yeah no I've had some advice which I don't like very much. I have worked myself to the point where I think it is a comment which could be characterised as being offensive and for that reason I will require the member to withdraw it and to apologise.Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: Now I want to warn the member that he's not to reflect on the ruling and the apology he's just had. We've had a member very nearly get into big trouble.Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: I appreciate that Mr Speaker. It's a clarity of whether I have the opportunity to answer the question. That's all I'm asking.SPEAKER: Well I think if the member had more that he wanted to say he should've said it before he was offensive. Right further supplementary?Hon Nathan Guy: Too right. When he said the biggest challenge in agriculture yesterday was succession does he not realise the biggest challenge facing agriculture right now is more taxes imposed by this Government and potentially a capital gains tax?Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: I absolutely reject that assertion. If he sat down and listened to farmers across this country he wouldn't talk such rubbish."