Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 14 November 2012. Volume:685;Page:6571. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
1. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his statement that the Household Labour Force Survey is “the most rigorous form of measuring employment in the economy”; if so what were the Survey’s results for unemployment for the last four quarters? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes. The household labour force survey applies a very rigorous test for whether someone is unemployed. They are counted as unemployed if they are actively looking for as little as 1 hour’s work a week. In the last quarter for example that included 33000 students who were looking for a job most probably for a part-time job alongside their study. To the second part of the member’s question over the last four quarters the number of people unemployed has gone from 151000 to 171000 back to 156000 and up to 170000. So as you can see the numbers bounce around quite a bit. Over the same period the number of people receiving the unemployment benefit has actually dropped from 56000 to 50000. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he now concede that his Government’s economic policies have failed to lower unemployment in New Zealand? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: No in the way that it is couched by the member. Obviously unemployment has risen but that has to be seen in the context of the overall environment that we have been operating in. We cannot wish away a global financial crisis but I would just say this. If we were theoretically to follow these policies—an emissions trading scheme that had a major impact on every New Zealand consumer and business reversing the company tax cut that this Government brought in putting a levy on every single New Zealand consumer to pay for Christchurch and a capital gains tax on a quarter of the housing market but on every single business in New Zealand and we came up with that novel idea of following Zimbabwe and Argentina in printing money—then that would really add to unemployment. By the way they are the Green Party policies. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Why is unemployment growing at more than 1½ times faster in New Zealand than across the average of the OECD over the last 4 years? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: At one level unemployment is coming from a lower base in New Zealand than in a lot of those countries. If you actually go and look at the OECD most of those countries are above New Zealand in terms of an unemployment rate and some of them like Spain are at very high levels—25 percent unemployment overall and 50 percent for young people. So that is one issue that is there. Countries have different ways of measuring things. But all I would say is if you go back to the unemployment benefit numbers and ask the obvious question—what were they in 1999 when the household labour force survey was at 7.3 percent and what are they today—the answer is that they were 150000 back then they are under 50000 here and they dropped by about 400 last week half of which were in Auckland. I might also add that if you were to go and look at the Jobs Online monthly report you would notice that they increased by 5.6 percent in October alone. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is it not the fact that unemployment in New Zealand has grown at 1½ times the average in the OECD over the last 4 years using the statistics in the household labour force survey which the Prime Minister told us we should read; and is that not a sign that his economic policies have failed? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: To the last part of the question no. 
Hon David Parker 
: Is the Prime Minister insisting now on using benefit figures rather than the household labour force survey which he previously described as the most rigorous form of measurement because just like Karl Rove on Fox News he likes to misuse math to make himself feel better? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well for one thing thank goodness David Parker is watching Fox News because he might learn something as opposed to that lefty stuff he seems to be embroiled in normally. Secondly no I am simply pointing out that the unemployment benefit is another way of looking at the economy and I think that makes sense. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I have called Dr Russel Norman. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is the Prime Minister aware that according to the standardised statistics produced by the OECD when he came to office New Zealand had the eighth-lowest unemployment in the OECD and it now has the fifteenth-lowest unemployment in the OECD and that that is a record of failure for his economic policies even in comparison with all those other countries that he tells us are doing so badly? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well it is still in the bottom half of those. I would point out that if one was to go and look at the issues that New Zealand faces vis-à-vis other OECD countries I would challenge the member to find other countries that would not take New Zealand’s position over theirs. If you look at our country we have had a global financial crisis and the worst earthquake in a number of generations and this Government will be back in surplus within a few years’ time. This is a— 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: A few years—how many? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well I still think we are on track for 2014-15 actually. So there are a— 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Oh still? Make up your mind. 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well it is not changing my mind David. You are changing your mind about whether you are challenging the leader or not but I am certainly not changing my mind. Do not worry Grant Robertson is supporting you because he was in the paper yesterday saying he supports David. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I think that is—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! I am on my feet. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! The Speaker is not involved in any of that so we will not have any of that. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: In light of the failure of the Government’s economic plan to lower unemployment will he give renewed consideration to the green growth green jobs proposals coming from the Pure Advantage group which includes successful New Zealand business people such as Sir Stephen Tindall Joan Withers Jeremy Moon and Justine Smyth? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: One thing I will not be doing is ordering up a carbon-neutral printer like that member wants for his printing of money. No if you go and look at the policies that that member is advocating it is an emissions trading scheme that goes on every single business it is reversing the company— 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Members are entitled to raise a point of order. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: The question was not about the policies of the Green Party even if the Minister failed to actually put them across properly. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Because of the time that has elapsed I will let the member repeat his question so that members can hear it. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: In light of the failure of the Government’s economic plan to lower unemployment will he give renewed consideration to the green growth green jobs proposals from the Pure Advantage group which includes successful New Zealand business people such as Sir Stephen Tindall Joan Withers Jeremy Moon and Justine Smyth? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: In terms of the first report no but my understanding is that another report is coming that might have some recommendations of interest in it. The Government will look at those. But I go back to the first point: a failure of economic policy in this country would be to reverse the company tax cut that this Government put in it would be to ban mining and all of the things that this Government is doing to ensure that there is job creation it would be to put a levy on every single consumer to pay for Christchurch it would be a capital gains tax on every business in New Zealand it would be an emissions trading scheme that put every consumer in a worse situation and it would be printing money so that every New Zealander— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I think there has been sufficient answer there. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: In light of the Government’s failure to reduce unemployment will he seriously consider the business case for New Zealand to embrace green growth and green jobs as advocated by the Pure Advantage group which includes successful New Zealand business people such as Rob Fyfe Phillip Mills Geoff Ross and Sir George Fistonich? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: As I said in the answer to the last question there is a second report coming out as I understand it from Pure Advantage and there may be a number of aspects of that report that the Government is interested in looking at. The member will also be aware that the Government commissioned some work in this area of which some of those recommendations we are following. I simply go back and say that the member lives in a world where he is advocating policies that would be very negative for the economy but comes into this House and pretends they would have no impact at all. If that is the case then he needs to go back and read his economics books. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Has he seen statistics from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics that show that the greener the industry the higher the job growth over the last decade and will he now reconsider his opposition to green growth strategies which are jobs-rich and good for the environment? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: No in answer to the first part of the question. In answer to the second part of the question there have been quite a number of things that this Government has done in relation to effectively green growth and they would be including the very extensive insulation scheme that the Government had. It has also got an emissions trading scheme which encourages people to plant trees. There have been a number of other things but not the ones that that member is proposing. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is Pure Advantage group not correct when it agues that mining the environmentally valuable Denniston Plateau for coal as proposed by Bathhurst Resources will have a detrimental effect on New Zealand’s economically valuable green brand; if so why on earth is the Prime Minister championing a special cause a special interest like Bathhurst Resources? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: No I do not think the member is right. If I remember correctly a few weeks ago that member was on television telling New Zealanders that it was a shocking thing that those who worked at the Solid Energy mine on the West Coast were losing their jobs at Spring Creek and yet on the other side of the coin he is now telling those very same miners that he does not wan them to get a job down the road at Bathhurst Resources. Is he seriously saying that because we have a small amount of mining activity relative to the size of New Zealand it somehow undermines our whole overall proposition as a good country to do business in and a good country to visit? I find that very hard to believe. If you look at Australia where the mining activity is very substantial it does not stop it from actually going out there and advertising extensively that Australia is a good place to do business a good place to live and a good place to holiday.