Nash StuartHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue): Thank you very much Madam Chairperson Tolley. I think it's important at this early stage to just get some things clear here. First of all what we heard—Dr Nick Smith talks about the meetings he attended up and down the country. What I heard in the meetings that I've attended is that for about the 60 percent of pensioners or superannuitants who rely solely on the pension to live—solely on the pension—the winter power bills were one of the greatest imposts they faced in wintertime. So what we have said is We're listening. We heard what you had to say." New Zealand First and Labour thought long and hard about this and said "What we will actually do is help you during those sort of six months where we know your costs increase significantly. So what we're going to do is we're going to give you some money to help you pay that power bill."But when the Hon Steven Joyce said "Well how is this going to be policed? You're going to put something in place that means if you're away for 28 days—how're you going to know this?" Well I would've thought that a former Minister of Finance would've actually known that the 28-day period exists for superannuitants who head overseas for longer than 28 days if they're receiving any sort of supplementary payment. And in fact there is an information-sharing agreement between the Customs Service and the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) who administer this. So this is not new here. This is not new in any way shape or form. And the reason we did this is we just felt it was unfair to those who were here for others who'd gone to the Gold Coast as has been brought up a number of times on this side of the Chamber and were wintering on the Gold Coast—this is not for them; this is for Kiwis who are here in winter to ensure they can pay their power bills.Now one of the reasons we did this is we looked at the stats. We looked at the stats and said "Is it acceptable in this country that 40000 New Zealand children end up in hospital in the middle of winter for respiratory diseases? Is it acceptable in New Zealand that in fact 9000 superannuitants end up in hospital with pneumonia? No it's not—not acceptable in any way shape or form. So what can we do to alleviate this?" And we felt that the winter energy payment was the perfect way to do this.Now if that side wants to argue that it's not important to help superannuitants over winter go hard. Do that. But we just think this is the right thing because it's what we have been told. The other thing that is quite false—and I was interested in Dr Nick Smith's comments here when he said "We are actually taking money off pensioners because of the average wage." And again the former Minister of Finance should know—because of course he would've read the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update—that the average wage is predicted to grow under Labour therefore we are actually giving more money to superannuitants than they would've received if the Opposition had been in Government. Luckily—luckily—they are not.And it is universal because we felt it was important to make it universal. So it's not an honesty box in any way shape or form. So Mr Joyce I just want to repeat this point because Mr Joyce was not in the Chamber when we made this point: there is an information-sharing agreement between customs and MSD so they will pick people up who are offshore—Hon Steven Joyce: Oh!Hon STUART NASH: —for over 28 days Mr Joyce. So it's OK.Having said though—having said that—this side actually trusts superannuitants to do the right thing anyway. We don't distrust everyone in any way shape or form.As to the Hon Alfred Ngaro's amendment we won't be supporting this. It's really just a practical reason. That goes back to the 28 days. If you receive it in a lump sum then you decide to take off on the 27th day—or you decide to take off—then how is that equitable? What we've got to look at here Mr Ngaro is the equity around this. It's the equity.Hon Alfred Ngaro: But if they stay though?Hon STUART NASH: If they stay then they're going to get it in equal payments which is how it should be. Getting it in a lump sum is just not fair. What we're about on this side is fairness and equity. As the honourable member will know under the healthy housing legislation that will come through under this Labour - New Zealand First Government we will ensure that landlords actually do have to provide a warm dry house.Hon Alfred Ngaro: Low-income families who are residents that own their own home.Hon STUART NASH: Low-income families—they will also be covered under the Healthy Homes Guarantee Act. So if they're renting a house the landlord will also have to provide a warm dry house.One thing I would say is we think this is fair we think this is equitable and this is not taking money off pensioners whatsoever. We have listened to pensioners when they said one of the greatest costs for them is the winter power bill."