Fairbrother Russell: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fairbrother Russell: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:608;Page:5550] 
4.  
RUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (NZ Labour—Napier) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: What steps have been taken to review eligibility for legal aid? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 In December 2002 a discussion document on eligibility for legal aid was released to groups with a direct interest in the subject including Government agencies the New Zealand Law Society community law centres and the New Zealand Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux. The responses have been received and are being analysed. This document has also been made available to the Justice and Electoral Committee and is now available on the ministry website. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: What are the goals of reviewing and reforming eligibility criteria? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The key goal is to provide access to legal representation in a fiscally affordable way for people with genuine need. The system also needs to be efficient so that resources are being used to the best effect. We also need to discourage unnecessary litigation. 
Richard Worth 
: Against the background of the abuse of the system by legally aided claimants before the Waitangi Tribunal which has been the subject of evidence to the Justice and Electoral Committee what specific actions will the Minister take to stop similar abuses by claimants to the Ministry for the Environment seeking money for attending the Environment Court as impoverished environmental action groups when members of that group as individuals have significant amounts of cash? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The member may not be aware of it but the money that is available for environmental groups is paid not out of this legal aid fund but by a separate ministry and a separate fund. 
Dail Jones 
: What action will the Minister take to ensure that any legal aid review deals with the problems arising from a grant of legal aid in domestic violence and interim custody matters to one party heard on a “without notice to the other party” basis resulting in the other usually non – legally aided party not getting interim custody which results in serious prejudice to the child or children and the other party in any subsequent custody action? I refer to the Law Commission’s Report 82 on dispute resolution in the Family Court paragraphs 984 and 992. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: That is an issue as is the fact that when legal aid is provided to one party over custody matters the other party that is fighting the legal battle may be above the threshold level and may have its assets dissipated. Both of those issues are before the Ministry of Justice as appropriate issues to examine in the context of this review. 
Stephen Franks 
: What steps will the Minister take to ensure that the eligibility review considers ways to avoid wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on counsel who defend crime described by a judge as “cruel and unspeakably depraved” yet excuse the brutal rape and murder of a jogger by saying: “The inequality between Maori and the white ruling class explained why a troubled young man with a decent family came to act like a psychopath”? 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Who said that? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has interjected and I have warned him. I am going to take it that that interjection meant the question was over so he will not be forced to leave. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: There are of course specific tests for the provision of legal aid in criminal cases. The person needs to demonstrate that having legal representation would otherwise be unaffordable and it must also be in the interests of justice. The interests of justice have been taken to mean that the seriousness of the consequences for the individual is high—that is the individual is likely to be imprisoned. In that case there needs to be certainty that all the issues are argued properly before a court of law so that the verdict of guilty is in fact the appropriate decision. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I draw your attention to an issue with question No. 4 which has been illustrated by the first supplementary question. Surely Mr Russell Fairbrother who has been a personal beneficiary of legal aid has a conflict of interest that he should have told us about before asking that question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I do not think that is the case at all. Otherwise we would have people who are dairy farmers never being allowed to ask questions about the dairy industry. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Has there been an examination of the policy of not allowing legal aid in criminal cases where defendants are unlikely to receive a prison sentence because the case is not considered significant—a practice that may lead to wrongful conviction—when in fact a first conviction even without a custodial sentence will clearly have significant impacts on a person’s life? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I understand the point the member is making but I have to make this point in reply: the amount of resources we can put into any area is finite. In this area we are currently expending $81 million of taxpayers’ money and we therefore have to make sure that we prioritise who is eligible and what cases are appropriate for legal aid. The line has therefore been drawn so that in criminal cases the probability of imprisonment is a factor that should be taken into account before legal aid is granted. 
Judy Turner 
: Does the Minister intend to review the ability for grandparents raising grandchildren to access legal aid in order to contest guardianship when currently means testing often leaves them with no option but to re-mortgage their homes to protect the interests of their grandchildren; if not why not? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have considerable sympathy for grandparents in that situation. I have talked to a number of them and that is indeed what I was alluding to when I answered the question earlier from Dail Jones. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table the record of the trial in which Mr Fairbrother made the defence as read out by Mr Franks. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.