Wilson Margaret: Estimates Debate — In Committee Procedure 
Wilson Margaret: Estimates Debate — In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:618;Page:14408] 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) 
: 
 This is an estimates debate so I think it is appropriate to record that the recent Budget saw an increase of $1.2 million for treaty negotiations. That does not include any extra funding that would have gone to the Waitangi Tribunal and the support that we have given there. I have listened with interest as I always do to the comments of my colleagues in the Opposition. They certainly do give truth to the cliché that National is really quite brave when it is in Opposition but when one examines its record from the nearly 10 years when it had the opportunity to do something about treaty settlements one finds it was rather poor. 
I unfortunately have had the position as the current Minister of having to clean up the mess that was left behind by the previous Government. That is one of the difficulties one has with the NgaiTahu settlement which is much vaunted—and a very good settlement it was. But the fact that we are only now starting to implement it is a classic example of how if one rushes to judgment so to speak one repents for quite some time. The Tainui claim of course was settled by National—or was it? The easy bits were. The previous Government left all the hard bits because it is Labour that cleans up the mess. Then we come to the Whakatohea and the Te Atiawa settlements. Those were great examples of the National Party’s approach to treaty settlements: to get there and tell people what to do. When Maori got an opportunity to speak for themselves they said “wait wait”. That is exactly what happened. 
We are about to be treated to a new policy called the fiscal envelope policy that will undoubtedly be presented by the National Party at the next election. We will look forward with interest to see the next series of disasters that National will create in terms of imposing its will upon claimant groups without taking into consideration the most essential aspect of the whole treaty settlement process: that it must be done in a way that takes account of the wishes of both parties—not only the wishes of the Crown which has been the National Party’s approach to the issue as it imposed its will on claimants. We have gone into genuine negotiations with claimant groups. Yes it does take longer than imposing the Crown’s wishes on claimants but we have done that because we want to have lasting and durable settlements. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Are you suggesting NgaiTahu— 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Some of those settlements that the member talks about are now being reopened—not NgaiTahu’s but I am told that some of the other settlements were not quite as full and final as they should have been. Perhaps the detail was not actually attended to by the previous Government. We have fine rhetoric from National but when it comes to the hard work and the professional approach needed to get fair and durable settlements its record is absolutely abysmal. 
We are engaged now with over 25 claimant groups. In recent days we have had the Prime Minister’s apology and I did not note that the honourable members were there to back up their fine words when the apology was given to Te Uri o Hau. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: They didn’t invite us. 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The members should not have needed an invitation. If they were so concerned for claimants they would have been there—no problem at all. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: No respect. 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Precisely. The Opposition has no respect for the claimant group or for the fact that you are part of the Crown and you should have been there to be represented at the same time as the Government. But you walked away— 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker— 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I am sorry; I apologise. National walked away. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairman. My complaint Sir is not against the Attorney-General and Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations who has apologised. My complaint is against the chief Government whip who consistently browbeats someone who tries to take a point of order. I do not want to be particularly pedantic but I think it was a bit rich—[ 
Interruption 
] Now we have the Minister of Maori Affairs Parekura Horomia interfering on a point of order. I think you should suggest to the chief Government whip that she lets Parliament deal with Parliament and does not always scream out across the Chamber like a demented hen as she tries to stop MPs from taking legitimate points of order. Surely you would agree that standing up to protect the Chair is a responsible thing to do without having Jill Pettis screaming out. 
Jill Pettis 
: Speaking to the point of order— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: No I do not need any help on this matter thank you very much. You are quite right Mr Hide and I hope the Committee will take notice of that. 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I take the point and I apologise to the Chair. The point I was making was that if National was serious and genuine about its concern for claimants it would have a united approach to the settlement of grievances. Certainly this Government has tried to work with the precedents that were established by the previous Government in the interests of certainty. We have tried to do that as well as we can because we saw that this process is bigger than either of us—in fact it is important to the whole country. It saddens me that we have a debate like this that comes down to personal attacks instead of looking to be able to resolve those differences. 
Vote agreed to.