Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Mr Chair. This is an opportunity for the committee to question the Minister on the matters in relation to the areas that she is responsible for so I am glad to have the opportunity to ask some basic questions. And if we start off with the question—Ginny Andersen: Point of order Mr Chair. As you explained in your introductory notes it's customary in this committee that when we're starting off into the Estimates the chair of the committee is required to make some introductory remarks around the findings of the committee. CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): In the first instance the chair didn't seek the call. The chair didn't seek the call in the second instance either. So I'll stand with the call I've given. I'll get back to you next.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Thank you Mr Chair. So we're dealing with the issues around the justice sector. I look at the very significant sums in this Budget in the Estimates—$17.6 million for crime prevention and community safety programmes for example—and the question that I obviously have is: why are they not working more effectively these investments? Because what we see and what all New Zealanders see around the country is a sharp increase in first violent crime a 20 percent increase in violent crime over the last few years and what the Prime Minister referred to today as a spate of ram raids and smash-and-grab crime in Auckland. I don't know what a spate" is particularly other than to say that it was a 518 percent increase in the first six months of 2022. That is a big spate. It is a double spate or even a dozen spates if that's what the explanation was. There's a lot and there's been a huge increase and the people who own the stores that are being ram raided in Auckland are in a terrible way and in a terrible plight. Just overnight there were seven additional—in Auckland a ram raid that smashed up people. First they steal a car then they smash that stolen car into the shop causing tens of thousands of dollars of damage to the shop as well as the car. Then of course they steal a second car in order to make their getaway and not to be chased by the police under the current rules. And so a lot of damage is caused in that equation. The Government's response so far has been to say "Oh well they probably need to focus more on bollards or some kind of protection." as if it's the victim's fault in this case—it's the victim's fault that they are getting attacked and they should have better bollards! But the problem is of course that most of the councils won't let them put the bollards in and they can't get a resource consent to put the bollards in. Meantime any fund that's made available is very slow. And so the question I have to the Minister is why on earth she feels confident that the money being invested by the Budget to prevent crime is going to be put to better use than it has been in the past given the Government's very poor showing on that. Also related to that the Government's main response to the increase in violent crime that we've seen over the last little while in the increased ram raids has been to say "Well when we look at the justice sector as a whole where do we see the priorities? Well what do we see as the big issues? Well it seems that the big issue is that we're too tough on the worst repeat serious offenders. Therefore we need to shorten the sentences for them by repealing the three-strikes bill."! It's a very convoluted strange logic that nobody can quite understand. And I wonder why the Minister came to that point of view. Now also in relation to the 40 percent increase in gang membership under this Government I'd be interested to know from the Minister of Justice whether any of the $17 million in crime prevention and community safety programmes has gone to gangs because we know that they've been funding some drug rehabilitation work. Part of the problem with this Government is that they have sent mixed messages about the role of gangs in our country. We see a very difficult and a dark contribution by many gang members in terms of violent crime in this community but this Government has funded them in many ways. And I just want to get some clarity from the Minister: how much if any of the crime prevention and community safety programmes have been paid out to gangs and gang members and how much support and assistance provided to the victim support and victims of crime has gone to gang members? Because that would be an interesting thing as well. The final question in relation to youth offending because many people are worried in the context of ram raiding that what we see is this catch-and-release approach. Nobody wants to see young people thrown into prison and us throwing away the key. And at the other end of the spectrum of potential responses is a group conference a family conference some sort of get-together where the young person the 13-year-olds the 12-year-olds the 14-year-olds who are driving the cars that are doing the ram-raiding—and there's no doubt that that is the case. These kids are patted on the head and told "Well naughty and we'll see you again next week when you do the same thing again." and repeat and repeat and repeat. I was talking to a shop owner who had had his shop smashed up and discovered that the young person involved had done numerous shops before. So I'm very keen to hear from the Minister as to what progress—what actual plans she has to reduce the number of youth offending."