Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 18 April 2013. Volume:689;Page:9545. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]5.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to theMinister of Energy and Resources: Does he believe that the electricity reforms of the late 1990s delivered lower electricity prices; if so what has happened to household electricity prices over the last 20 years?Hon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Energy and Resources): Yes those reforms were on the right track. But as a newspaper column said this morning the largest sustained household price increases for a generation or more happened between the end of 2001 and the end of 2008. That is the difficulty as the column says for David Shearer and Russel Norman. So if Mr Norman wants to apologise now I am happy to accept that apology.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This was a question on notice. It had two parts. The Minister vaguely addressed the first one I suppose but he completely failed to address the second part of the question. It is very specific.Mr SPEAKER: I thought he addressed it very specifically.Dr Russel Norman: Well Mr Speaker “20 years”—we are now in 2013 so we are talking from 1993 to 2013. He did not address that period. He talked about 2001 but—Mr SPEAKER: He addressed a portion within that period of 20 years without a doubt. The member has further supplementary questions.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question is very specific. It is on notice. It is about 20 years. You cannot cherry-pick a period within the 20 years and say you have answered the question. He did not answer the question.Mr SPEAKER: I think the Minister has adequately addressed the question that you put down. The member has further supplementary questions if he wants to use them.Dr Russel Norman: That is ridiculous. That is ridiculous.Mr SPEAKER: Order!Dr Russel Norman: Supplementary—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will withdraw that remark.Dr Russel Norman: I withdraw. Supplementary question.Mr SPEAKER: A supplementary question Dr Russel Norman.Dr Russel Norman: Is it not a simple—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Order! Settle down. The member has a right to ask a supplementary question. Dr Russel Norman.Dr Russel Norman: Is it not a simple fact that the actual answer to the question that was put on notice which the Minister should have given an answer to is that electricity prices for households rose 70 percent above inflation over the 20 years since his party introduced its ridiculous grab for electricity reforms?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: The simple fact is those reforms did not have a chance to bed in and that power prices shot up under the Labour-Greens. But I will give the member—[Interruption] But I will give the member another simple fact—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I want to hear the rest of the answer.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We did not hear the beginning of the answer and we would like to hear it on the basis of “Give a man enough rope”.Mr SPEAKER: The Minister can continue with his answer. [Interruption] A further supplementary question Dr Russel Norman.Dr Russel Norman: Is it not a simple fact that the answer to the question of how much did household power prices increase over 20 years—the question that is on notice—is that prices increased by 70 percent above inflation?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: No I do not think that is a simple fact. I think what is a simple fact is that since the Labour-Greens announced their policy Contact Energy’s share price has fallen by almost 3 percent. I know that member is probably proud of that but on this side of the House we actually believe in shareholders’ value.Dr Russel Norman: Seeing that the Minister seems completely unaware of what has happened to—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will ask the question within the Standing Orders without that—Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Standing Orders require that Ministers address questions that have been put down on notice. The Minister failed to do that and now you are saying—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member is now trifling with a ruling I gave earlier. I have ruled—[Interruption] Order! I had ruled that that answer addressed the question. I then gave the member the ability to ask supplementary questions and in asking supplementary questions it is inappropriate to start with a reflection “Seeing that the Minister is unaware”. The member can simply ask his supplementary—Chris Hipkins: Point of order—Mr SPEAKER: Well I am dealing with a point of order. The member can continue to ask his supplementary question but he does not need to reflect that way on the Minister.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would like to ask you to reflect further on that ruling not necessarily now because previous Speakers—well the previous Speaker certainly has indicated that where members are dissatisfied with the quality of an answer the supplementary question is in fact the way that a member can follow that up. If you are saying that a member cannot reflect on the quality of an answer in a subsequent supplementary question then that makes the whole process a total farce.Mr SPEAKER: No I am saying that the member has every ability to then ask supplementary questions to delve in and get better answers. He does not need to address it in that way.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is as clear as daylight to anyone watching this House or listening that a 20-year period oversight was asked for. Eleven years were left out and after two times surely the questioner was entitled to assume that the Minister knew nothing of those 11 years and was unaware of them. That is the point that is being made.Mr SPEAKER: Now the member is also questioning a ruling I made earlier. I made a ruling that the question was adequately addressed and left it for Dr Russel Norman to ask further supplementary questions.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Is it a fresh point of order or is it continuing to question a ruling I made earlier?Dr Russel Norman: It is to try to establish—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is it a fresh point of order?Dr Russel Norman: It is related to your ruling. It is trying to establish—Mr SPEAKER: No. Order! I have ruled on that question. If the member wishes to raise a fresh point of order I will entertain it. But if it is continuing to question my ruling then I will take that quite seriously.Dr Russel Norman: Is it not time to admit the truth for once on behalf of the Minister or the National Party—the truth just for once from the National Party; that is what I would like to hear—that the reforms in the 1990s have failed to deliver a competitive electricity market and that is why prices have risen 70 percent above inflation over those 20 years and that in the period since this Government has been in place over 4 years power prices have risen by 19 percent in spite of the fact that demand is flat; the market has failed?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: I thank the member for that speech. The simple facts of the matter are these. In the 1990s power prices did rise. They then shot up markedly under the Labour Government. We were so concerned when we came into Government that we set up a review. We set about implementing reforms including the Electricity Authority and the rate of increase has gone from 8 percent to some 4.5 percent. Well that is success.Hon Trevor Mallard: Have power prices increased by 70 percent more than the rate of inflation in the last 20 years?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: I am not certain of that fact but what I do know is that the sharpest rise was under the 9 years of Labour when that guy was—Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister has answered the question. He does not need to go on attacking any other—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That sort of point of order clearly leads to more disorder. It is not an adequate point of order. The Minister has the ability to answer the question and to elaborate provided he does not go on for too long.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That question is the core of the primary question. For a Minister to say that he does not know cannot be true.Mr SPEAKER: Order! It is a substantially different question from what was asked in the primary question.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Could I ask you and it may not be the appropriate time to make a ruling here but is it your ruling that where a member sets down a primary question on notice that deals with a specific time period a Minister now may be required to provide information for only a small part of that specific time period rather than the entire time period specified?Mr SPEAKER: I think that is a valid point of order. It would be dependent on the question that is asked and the answer that is given. But again I will reflect when I have read theHansard and I will have a look at it but I thought as I have said that the Minister adequately addressed the question.