Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeHipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 05 June 2013. Volume:690;Page:10726. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to theMinister of Education: Does she stand by all her decisions as Minister of Education; if not are there any particular decisions she now regrets?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education): Yes in the circumstances and the advice received at the time and the decision I stand most by is the decision to invest $9.7 billion into education in New Zealand the most ever invested in education in this country.Chris Hipkins: Did she ask for or receive any further details about the 147 known defects in the Novopay system that she was made aware of in the 5 June written briefing she received from officials prior to giving her final approval to Novopay going live; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I asked for advice from those whom I was entitled to rely upon whether or not that rate was well within the acceptable level and I was advised byofficials that it was. In terms of the 5 June decision to go live I was advised that three members of the information and communications technology approval council had approved the go-live and that confidence point two had been met in all criteria. I now know that not to have been the case but at the time that was the advice and it was in that knowledge that I approved the go-live.Chris Hipkins: Did she specifically ask for any further advice about the 147 known defects that she was advised about?Hon HEKIA PARATA: As I have already responded to that member—well I should make it clear. I am not an IT expert so I relied on the advice that the IT experts gave me which was that the criteria for confidence point two which included those particular runs had been met and the advice from all of the officials and the independent advisers was that we should proceed to go live.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Both the first supplementary question and the second supplementary question were actually very specific about the 147 known defects that were reported in the briefing that the Minister received on 5 June. I asked her specifically whether she had asked for advice on those specific defects. She has talked about a number of other things she asked for advice on but having—Mr SPEAKER: Order! On this occasion I think the Minister has adequately addressed both questions. The first one was certainly addressed. In terms of the second one as to whether she specifically asked for additional information the Minister responded by saying that she was not a technology expert; she relied on the information that was given to her. I think that—Chris Hipkins: Yes or no?Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member has no right to demand a yes or no answer. The member has further supplementary questions if he wants to use them.Chris Hipkins: Did the advice she received on 5 June indicate that confidence point two had been met but also indicate that it had not been met; if so why did she sign off on Novopay’s implementation given that she was receiving clearly contradictory advice?Hon HEKIA PARATA: On 5 June with the go-live decision the advice that I was clearly given both by the information and communications technology advice council and in terms of whether confidence point two had been met was that it was appropriate for me to sign and approve and it was on that advice and my asking for information and assurance that I signed the go-live.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked her specifically—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Again can I invite the member to look carefully at theHansard as indeed I will. The member from memory asked three supplementary questions. The Minister has very adequately addressed one of those.Chris Hipkins: Did the advice she received on 5 June indicate that there was at least one medium-security vulnerability and one low-security vulnerability within the Novopay system; if so did she ask for any further information on the nature of those security threats before she signed off the implementation?Mr SPEAKER: Hon Hekia Parata—either of those two supplementary questions.Hon HEKIA PARATA: In respect of the decision made on 5 June the advice put to me based on the knowledge of all of the information that applied to meeting confidence point two was that it was satisfactory that Ministers could rely on that advice. Assurances were sought they were given and on that basis—relying on people who know about IT far more than me—I signed the advice.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have the advantage of being able to read the question that my colleague asked. It does have two parts—Mr SPEAKER: Yes.Hon Trevor Mallard: —and I put it to you that neither of those was answered. The first part asked whether the advice she received on 5 June indicated that there was at least one medium-security vulnerability and one low-security vulnerability. She did not answer that. She was then asked if that was so whether she asked for further information on the nature of those security threats. She did not answer that.Mr SPEAKER: If the Minister could attempt to answer either of those supplementary questions I would be grateful.Hon HEKIA PARATA: The advice that I was given by officials by independent quality assurers by people with significant IT expertise was that within the expectations of the project at that time it was satisfactory to go live. I relied on that advice at that time.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I could read the question out again. It did have two parts and neither of those was addressed by the Minister’s answer.Mr SPEAKER: The best way forward is to invite Chris Hipkins as the original asker of the question to repeat the question.Chris Hipkins: Did the advice she received on 5 June indicate that there was at least one medium-security vulnerability and one low-security vulnerability within the Novopay system; if so did she ask for any further information on the nature of those security threats before she signed off implementation?Hon HEKIA PARATA: My clear recollection is asking officials whether they could give me assurance that notwithstanding those particular elements of the project at that time it was satisfactory within the context of IT projects to proceed. The advice was and I can rely only on the advice of experts in the IT field that it was satisfactory that confidence point two had been met and that the independent advisers who had been retained specifically for this purpose agreed that the go-live should occur. On the basis of that advice which I had complete confidence at that time that I could rely on I approved the go-live.Chris Hipkins: I seek leave to table the advice the Minister received on 5 June.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that advice. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.