O'Connor SimonSIMON O'CONNOR (National—Tāmaki): Well Mr Chair. I will switch then to the political realm now that I have finished my role as chair. I will switch to defence as a courtesy to the Minister. There are probably two things. To the extent he can updating us around the frigate upgrade timings would be welcome. I don't think he's probably able to talk about capabilities. We don't want to breach anything there but if there are any indications. And it probably is that challenge if he wanted to address it: what is going to happen with the defence estate? It's completely understandable—opprobrium if you will could be thrown at the past but I'm a great man for looking into the future. So I'd like to know what that Minister's going to do. And if he could assure the committee around whether there's still any planned closures of bases or merging—anything that he might care to discuss in these final minutes.Hon RON MARK (Minister of Defence): Thank you Mr Chairman and can I thank the chair of the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee for that good round-up in both the foreign affairs and the defence conversations during the Estimates.Coming straight to the point: the frigate systems upgrade. As the House knows that project was kicked off as one of the first projects we undertook as the new incoming Government—around $640 million I think off the top of my head. That project has clearly like a number of things fallen victim to the COVID pandemic. There have been issues both in Victoria in the port with the company that operates the port and with Lockheed Martin in terms of their ability under the COVID situation to progress work there. It'd be fair to say that we're realistic and anticipated that there would be challenges. The project is behind schedule. I was very hopeful that we might see Te Kaha in all her glory sale into New Zealand in September. But at this point in time the latest brief I can give the committee Mr Chairman is that we'll probably not see the first frigate in New Zealand until February and then Te Mana will follow in about 12 months after that—nine to 12 months after that. I would say from my visit to Canada and my inspection of both frigates that were in dock at the time that the project has been a massive undertaking a very complex undertaking and without going into details other than to say the frigate systems upgrade is aimed at improving the defensive and offensive capabilities of those two ships and extending their life out. I am fully confident from all of the briefings I've had that we will achieve that aim and that the Government of the day will receive back into service two highly capable frigates which will service out till—I think we're planning 2035 is the extension we're looking for there.In terms of the defence real estate—and I would share the honourable member's desire not to get in and rotary hoe that paddock too much. The past is the past. Suffice to say we're sitting on about $2.1 billion worth of deferred maintenance and outstanding work. This is going to be a challenge not just to this Government but any future Government in cleaning that up. In terms of the bases the question around bases I do not see any change to the current layout. Of course Devonport is a live question and a live debate. I would simply say that we did initiate the first principles review of the defence real estate prompted by a number of questions challenges that the last Government faced when people kept trying to take possession of Whenuapai something that the former Prime Minister resisted; hence we still have Whenuapai. We are facing challenges constantly from encroachment of housing from people wishing to interdict the operations. This cannot be allowed to continue. So we've taken some very firm steps and locking down and making sure that we do what we are able to to continue to operate the defence forces and secondly to look forward to the future to 2070 and try and get an eye and a picture on what sort of a footprint we need in order that we are able to maintain the defence forces and give them surety and security of tenure.