Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill — Second Reading 
Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:663;Page:11256] 
Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill 
Second Reading 
Debate resumed from 18 May. 
ALLAN PEACHEY (National—Tamaki) 
: 
 When I look through the  
Hansard 
 of the debate—well it was not really a debate; it was more of a discussion—on the first reading of the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill I note that I made the comment that I was very much looking forward to chairing the Education and Science Committee hearings that would be looking into the bill. I reiterate that it was a pleasure. The committee was at one in terms of its objectives. It had a very very good discussion with a couple of submitters and it was able to come back to the House with a report with no amendments. I take a moment to acknowledge the work of all committee members. I acknowledge Opposition members. I noted Mr Shearer’s very positive contribution to the debate before it was interrupted and I appreciated the remarks that he made. I also acknowledge the role that members on this side of the House played. 
I acknowledge also the role that the Carter Observatory has played in Wellington and in wider New Zealand in terms of the development of the science of astronomy. Many many thousands of youngsters will have had their first introduction to science visiting that observatory where they got that spark of excitement in their eyes. I am confident that the place the Carter Observatory has in New Zealand history and particularly in the history of astronomy is secure and will go from strength to strength under the new arrangements. 
The arrangement is very very simple. This bill repeals the Carter Observatory Act 1938 and dissolves the Carter Observatory board. It transfers the assets of the Carter Observatory board to the Wellington City Council and vests the liabilities incurred by the Carter Observatory board in the Crown and in the Wellington City Council. It really marks the next stage in the history of that observatory. 
I conclude by expressing the hope that given that there was unanimous agreement of all sides at the select committee and in the second reading debate we can proceed very very quickly through the Committee stage and on to the third reading and achieve what everybody wants which is the final passage of this bill through the House. 
KELVIN DAVIS (Labour) 
: 
 Labour supports the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. The purpose of the bill is to disestablish the Carter Observatory as the national observatory. It repeals the Carter Observatory Act 1938 and dissolves the Carter Observatory board. It also vests the assets and liabilities of the observatory in the Wellington City Council. 
Since 2007 the Wellington City Council has effectively been managing the Carter Observatory. The council has agreed to take full responsibility for the Carter Observatory and the Crown agrees with that. The bill gives effect as I have said to that agreement by repealing the Carter Observatory Act 1938; dissolving the Carter Observatory board; providing for the transfer of assets including land of the Carter Observatory board to the Wellington City Council; vesting in the Crown the liabilities incurred by the Carter Observatory board prior to 20 December 2007; and vesting in the Wellington City Council the liabilities incurred by the Carter Observatory board on and after 20 December 2007. 
The Carter Observatory’s name commemorates Charles Rooking Carter who gifted his estate to the Royal Society of New Zealand to establish an astronomical observatory in Wellington. Parliament established the Carter Observatory in 1937 and the observatory opened its doors in 1941 becoming a base for astronomical research in New Zealand. Work began with solar investigations and when new staff joined during the 1970s it expanded to include variable stars galaxies and asteroids. The Carter Observatory became New Zealand’s national observatory in 1977. 
In 2005 the New Zealand Government commissioned Professor Mike Bessell to review the Carter Observatory and explore New Zealand’s requirements and opportunities in astronomy and space science research and education and Professor Bessell’s report kick-started the Carter Observatory’s transformation into a world-class visitor attraction and educational facility. In 2006 the Labour Government provided $2.2 million to provide more educational and tourist opportunities at the Carter Observatory and in 2008 further funds were provided in line with the tourism strategy at the time. 
Tourism and education are both portfolios on which I am spokesperson and it is great that the Carter Observatory is being added to the wealth of tourism opportunities within the Wellington city area. Of course education is close to my heart. When I was a teacher I took groups down to the observatory at One Tree Hill and kids really enjoy and get involved in the opportunities that observatories provide especially when they go there at night and observe the stars moon and so on. 
There are difficulties in having an observatory in a city in that observatories work best when they are not surrounded by street lights or lighting that affects the images they get. In 2005 I was lucky enough to travel to Arizona. As part of the trip over there I went up Mount Graham at the top of which there is an observatory at a height of 10000 feet. Despite the fact that this observatory was in the middle of the desert with just a few towns 20 or 30 miles away the lights from those small towns still distorted the images and the views from the telescopes. In particular the cities of Phoenix and Tucson which were a couple of hundred kilometres away still managed to distort the images as the light from those cities was visible on the images. So it is not good to have an observatory that is really serious about research and science smack-bang in the middle of a city especially a city like Wellington. With its inclement weather and cloudy days there would be a number of nights when the views would not be very good at all. 
The educational programme at the observatory includes some fantastic opportunities. Curriculum-linked teaching resources are sent to schools before visits and offer astronomy information lesson plans and activities and links for further research. Members of the Carter Observatory learning team help teachers tailor programmes to meet their groups’ learning objectives. There are free familiarisation visits for teachers. Students are able to explore interactive multimedia exhibitions which encompass four themes: space time and matter; stars solar systems and planets; life and the universe; and the astronomy of Oceania. There are opportunities to view and handle significant astronomical artefacts heritage telescopes and historic documentation shipped over here during World War II. When the viewing conditions are right students are able to use the Thomas Cooke Telescope to view the sun under controlled conditions. Optional hands-on workshops are led by the Carter Observatory learning team and there is a planetarium where the kids get to sit under the stars. 
When I was going to school some 25 or so years ago— 
Grant Robertson 
: 30? 35? 
KELVIN DAVIS 
: —some 10 to 15 years ago—the Matariki festival was almost unheard of and it is great that Matariki has become quite a big event in the Maori calendar. It is great that the Carter Observatory reinforces and emphasises that event. Between 14 June and 18 July the observatory will celebrate Matariki. The rising of Matariki heralds the start of the Maori calendar year. As in many other civilisations the changing shape of the moon was used to mark months and individual days in this period. Each day of the maramataka or Maori calendar had a name and associated shape. If the moon could not be seen for a number of these days it was easy to count off those days or catch up when the moon could be seen. As the lunar calendar does not match the solar calendar the dawn rising on Matariki heralded the changing of the year with the first new moon after the rising marking the start of the maramataka. It is great that the Carter Observatory is reinforcing in its educational programmes the whole Matariki concept and acknowledging Maori concepts and I congratulate it on that. 
As well as tourism and educational facilities there are also conference facilities at the Carter Observatory and here we can see it has moved right away from the whole research programme it once had. The observatory is no longer suitable for use as a research centre; it has appropriately been converted to support educational and tourism purposes. It is therefore only right and appropriate that the facility and the assets are vested and transferred to the ownership of the Wellington City Council. As I say the Labour Party supports this legislation. Thank you very much. 
SUE KEDGLEY (Green) 
: 
 The Green Party will support as I think every other party in this House will the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill which vests ownership of the Carter Observatory in the Wellington City Council. The Carter Observatory has recently been refurbished and it is a fantastic asset for Wellington. It is a great tourism asset which is part of a network of tourism facilities in Wellington. It is also a great educational asset as the previous speaker Kelvin Davis has said. It really does have fantastic exhibitions. The multimedia exhibition about the southern skies is fantastic and the heritage Cooke telescope is fantastic. The aim is for the observatory to become a world-class tourism centre and I hope that it really will. Certainly it will be one of Wellington’s many tourist attractions. 
There is a slight sense of sadness or misgiving about the passage of this legislation however because we are losing our national observatory and we hope that in the process we will not lose a generation of young scientists. What was once a national observatory and a centre of scientific excellence and astronomical study is now becoming a tourism centre and educational institution. So that is a little bit sad. There is the prospect that the University of Canterbury and the Mount John Observatory might take over the role of our national observatory. But there is a sense of sadness because the Carter Observatory was set up as an astronomical observatory. But I guess one has to say that as well as sadness there is a change in its role and I am sure it will excite generations of young New Zealanders in particular and get them interested in Matariki the southern stars and astronomy and that is a very good thing. 
We are very pleased to support this bill and we hope the Wellington City Council will look after the Carter Observatory well. We notice that it has funding for the next 10 years with no guarantees after that so we hope that the Wellington City Council or others will continue to fund it and that it will continue to be a centre of excellence as well as a tourism and educational institution. Thank you. 
Hon HEATHER ROY (Deputy Leader—ACT) 
: 
 As a Wellington-based MP I rise to speak on the second reading of the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. There is something very intriguing about space the planets and the stars. They are parts of our universe that we rarely get to see close up and perhaps it is because of this that adults and children alike are always rather taken by them. We have been very fortunate in Wellington to have the Carter Observatory. It has been an important feature of the Wellington landscape for 70 years now and more recently has become a popular attraction for those visiting the Wellington Botanic Garden serving as an interactive learning facility for students for teachers and for parents. The observatory provides us with the opportunity to have a closer look at what is going on about us every day and night. 
The Carter Observatory opened in 1941 and it was not until 1977 that it became the national observatory of New Zealand. Following a Government-commissioned assessment in 2005 Professor Mike Bessell reported that it was not meeting the objectives of a national observatory including training outstanding scientists and promoting international research activities by collaborating with foreign astronomers. 
This bill draws to a close the changes that have been under way since 2007 when the Wellington City Council took over the management of the observatory and contributed $1.9 million towards its refurbishment and upgrade. This significant investment has made the observatory the popular attraction that we know today albeit with quite a changed focus that of education and tourism. 
The transfer of assets to the Wellington City Council and the disbanding of the board mean that the council can continue its efforts to make the observatory an appealing and engaging place for both visitors and locals to enjoy and that is exactly what has happened since its recent reopening with a renewed vigour and increased numbers visiting. 
This bill marks a timely shift in purpose and focus that is supported widely—I think by every party in the House tonight. The function of the board has changed and its dissolution is appropriate. No doubt the Carter Observatory will continue to be an important asset to Wellington. Under the responsibility of the Wellington City Council and following the enormous commitment in investment already made I think we can be well assured that it will be well looked after. The ACT Party supports the bill and is pleased to do so. Thank you. 
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
: 
 Tena ano tatau katoa e te Whare. Ehara i te mea he roa rawa taku korero engari hai whaiwhai haere i te korero a wetahi. Kai te tautoko ake te Pati Maori i tenei pire i tona panuitanga tuarua. Ko nga korero e pa ana ki te arorangi he korero me ki kua tuhia i roto i nga hitori i nga korero o-nehe me ki o te iwi Maori o te tangata whenua o tenei whenua. No reira koinei te tikanga o ta matau whakaae atu ki tenei o nga pire i te mea ara no ona painga. Ko te mea pai ki a au otira ki te Pati Maori ko tetahi whakatau i puta i te poari o te Carter Observatory i nga tau kua puta. E ai ki ta ratau anei ta ratau i roto i tetahi o nga whakatau: 
“ 
The Observatory shall have regard to the Treaty of Waitangi and the interests and needs of Maori people in all its business and in the allocation of resources to Distance Education 
.”  
Kei te tino rata atu matau ki tera momo korero i te mea kua ata whakaarohia e taua poari te tikanga o te Tiriti o Waitangi o roto i ona nekeneke.  
I te noho ahua rangirua awangawanga matou i te tuatahi i te whakakorenga o te poari o te Carter Observatory ka mutu ki te whakawhitinga o nga rawa ki roto i te kaunihera o te taone nei o Poneke engari he pai tonu i te mea kua puta te korero. Ko te tikanga o ta matau awangawanga ko te ngakuanui o te poari ki nga hiahia ki nga oati o te ao Maori ka mutu ki tana aronga ki te Tiriti o Waitangi. Hoi ano e ai ki nga korero ehara i te mea ka noho te poari nei te Carter Observatory hei mea tirohanga mo te motu engari i tana katinga me ki kua whakatahangia he taha ki te Karauna. Ka mutu ka taka nga ahuatanga katoa te kaitiaki ranei o tenei o nga kaupapa ki roto i nga ringaringa o te kaunihera ki te tiaki pai i tenei o nga wahi te ahua nei kua pera rawa mai i Tihema i te tau 2007.  
E ai ki ta te Minita ki te Pati Maori te Minita mo Take Putaiao te Manatu Putaiao kua noho tahi me ki te kaunihera me te poari te kaunihera o Poneke taku e korero nei me te poari ki te whakatau kia tika ra no te whakatikatika ranei te whakapaipai ranei i te wahi nei. Ka mutu e ai ki ta te Minita kua kaha nei te poari nei me te kaunihera ki te whakapa mai ki te Ao Maori me te whai i tera kaupapa i korerohia mai ra e tetahi o nga mema i mua i a au a Heather Roy pea tetahi atu ranei mo nga take matauranga. A ka mutu ko te mema o te Reipa a Kelvin Davis i korero ia mo nga take matauranga me te pai o tenei o nga wahi kei te whakaakoako i te ahuatanga o te taiao me te Ao Maori. No reira he pai tera me ki kua noho tau tera take.  
Ko te mea pai ki a au otira ki a matau i timata te poari nei ki te whakapa mai ki nga hunga kainga o konei ki a Ngati Toa rangatira otira ki te Wellington Tenths Trust 
. 
Kua pataia te patai mo nga tikanga e tika ana mo te wahi nei no reira kua aro mai me me ki ki nga ahuatanga me nga hiahia o te hunga kainga.  
No reira ehara i te mea he nui nga take i tua atu o tera. Tuatahi ko ta ratau ngakaunui ki te Tiriti o Waitangi i roto i nga korero o-nehe ka pai kua mau tonu tera. Ka rua ko te ahuatanga o te matauranga me tana hiahia ki te whaiwhai haere i tera take kia noho tera wahi hei wahi whakaako i nga tamariki nga mokopuna o te motu nei. Ka toru me ki ka noho tata te kaunihera nei me te hunga kainga te tangata whenua o te wahi ki a Ngati Toa. Tua atu o tera he mea pai tenei mea o nga pire hai whakatau i enei take katoa. Kare he nui ake nga korero ko ta matou ko te tautoko a kia ora tatou katoa.  
[ 
Greetings to us once again the House. My address is not a long one but merely to follow up what others have touched on. The Maori Party supports this bill in its second reading. The stories relating to cosmology are recorded in history and in the ancient myths of the Maori people the indigenous people of this land. This is the reason why we support this bill because of its enormous benefits. What pleases me and the Maori Party as well is that the board of the Carter Observatory has resolved the following: “The Observatory shall have regard to the Treaty of Waitangi and the interests and needs of Maori people in all its business and in the allocation of resources to Distance Education.” We are very satisfied with that kind of statement because that board has considered the meaning of the Treaty of Waitangi very carefully and factored it into its operations.  
We were initially worried and concerned at the proposal to dissolve the Carter Observatory and to transfer the assets of the board to the Wellington City Council but it is quite all right because it has been made public. The cause of our concern related to the explicit commitment of the board to the needs and pledges of Maoridom in respect of the Treaty of Waitangi. However according to reports and because the Carter Observatory no longer functions as the national observatory of the country its Crown statutory responsibilities terminate as well. Further to that the Wellington City Council will take full responsibility for the ongoing maintenance of this place and has in fact been managing it since December 2007.  
The Minister has assured the Maori Party that the Ministry of Research Science and Technology has been working closely with the council and the board—I am referring to the Wellington City Council—to resolve matters and to ensure proper redevelopment and sustainability of this area. The Minister has further added that the board and the council have worked hard with Maoridom to pursue that programme about educational matters that a member who spoke before me addressed us on. Was it the Hon Heather Roy perhaps or was it someone else? It was Labour member Kelvin Davis. He touched on educational matters and how the observatory was a good place in terms of teaching aspects of science and Maori perspectives. It seems that that will continue and that is good.  
Pleasing as well to me and to the Maori Party is that the board began to engage with the locals here with Ngati Toa and the Wellington Tenths Trust. The question about the right customs for this place has been asked in respect of the concerns and needs of the local iwi and taken into account. 
So there is not much more beyond that. First there is the commitment to the Treaty of Waitangi in respect of accounts of the ancient past. That seems to be well in place. Secondly in respect of education there is the desire to follow up on that to ensure that the observatory remains a learning place for the children and grandchildren of this country. Thirdly this council and the local people of this place Ngati Toa work closely with each other. Beyond that the bill will resolve all these matters. There is nothing further to add. We support it. Greetings to you all 
.]  
JO GOODHEW (National—Rangitata) 
: 
 There is a bright future for the Carter Observatory and the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill has been in the making for some time. The decisions that will change the future for the Carter Observatory were made by the previous Government. Those decisions were to repeal the Carter Observatory Act 1938 to dissolve the Carter Observatory board and to transfer the assets of the Carter Observatory board to the Wellington City Council and then to vest the liabilities incurred by the Carter Observatory board in the Crown and the Wellington City Council. The money is sorted the future is sorted and I believe that the three submissions to the Education and Science Committee which were all in favour told us that the time has passed for talking about this issue; it is now time to get on with it. I commend this bill to the House. 
MOANA MACKEY (Labour) 
: 
 The junior Government whip might think that the time for talking has well passed and that we just need to get on and do it. The question then has to be asked why it has taken so long for this legislation to come back to the House. This legislation has the support of all Parliament and it is uncontentious so the question has to be asked why it has taken so long for this bill to come through the House particularly when we have been passing far less important legislation and far more damaging legislation. The Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill might have been very important legislation to have promoted earlier on. I put that question to the Minister in the House the Hon Wayne Mapp: why has it taken so long for this legislation to come back to the House and to pass through its stages? 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Despite Wayne’s machine-like efficiency. 
MOANA MACKEY 
: That is quite right. Despite the Minister’s machine-like efficiency it has taken a while for the bill to get through its second reading. 
Of course Labour supports this legislation. I think we have to give two thankyous at the outset of this debate. The first thankyou goes to Mr Charles Rooking Carter who gifted his estate to the Royal Society of New Zealand for the establishment of an astronomical observatory in New Zealand. It cannot be overestimated or said enough how important that gift was and how much we are indebted to him. The second thankyou needs to go to the Wellington City Council because without its support for the ongoing work of the Carter Observatory it would not have been able to continue. The Wellington City Council needs to be congratulated on its recognition of the importance of this observatory. 
All members of the House have articulated that the Carter Observatory has an exciting future in terms of tourism and education and it is with a hint of sadness that we are giving up our national observatory. It is no longer fit for purpose—that is clear. It no longer carries out the research function that it once carried out and that other national observatories around the world carry out but there is no denying that astronomy is the gateway into science for a number of young New Zealanders. That is why it is so important that the observatory continue in its role in education. For many young New Zealanders the study of astronomy is the first time that they question the world around them and the things that they do not understand. They ask for explanations that may not be readily obvious or available about what they see in the world around them. 
Astronomy is in many ways unique in that aspect. For many young New Zealanders and young people around the world it is the discipline with which they first find themselves fascinated. I never went down the route of watching  
Star Trek 
; it was not my thing. But science fiction  
Star Trek 
 the possibility of intelligent life somewhere else and all those kinds of things fascinate many people. When they look to the other side of the House and do not see intelligent life they figure that it must be somewhere else in the universe. It is all an important part of science and of bringing young people into science. In that regard it is with a hint of sadness that we say goodbye to our national observatory but at the same time we know that the Carter Observatory has an exciting future. It will continue in its role of educating young people and introducing them to science in its new capacity. 
One of the interesting things about the Carter Observatory that not many people know is its role as a private tertiary education provider. It has carried out that very important role. It was not often talked about or trumpeted by the observatory but the observatory was accredited by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. It developed national standards in astronomy and if it had not done that we have to ask who else might have done it. If members look at the Carter Observatory’s website they will see the enormous resource for teachers. It has developed the pedagogy for teachers in this area so that they can pick it up bring it into the classroom and make sure that their students are exposed to the exciting and innovative advances that are going on around the world in this area. Many teachers have said to me how important that teaching resource has been. 
When we consider that last year the Government cut the funding for science advisers we see that the role of the Carter Observatory becomes even more crucial and important. Science advisers were a crucial part of our education system. Last year the National Government said that it did not need them any more because that year science was not its focus. The Government did not realise that those people are in high demand around the world so they have all gone. Those people are all overseas. They have been picked up by other countries which were very keen to take on people who had the dual role of picking up the science curriculum and introducing it into the primary education sector. Those people have gone. When the Minister of Education said that next year the Government might bring back the funding I say that that is fantastic but the people will no longer be here. Members on this side of the House think that science needs to be a priority every year not just in the years when it suits the Government. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: They’re unscientific. 
MOANA MACKEY 
: Government members are not evidence-based at all in any way shape or form. 
When we consider the issue of national standards as well we can look at the experience in the UK. In fact Cambridge University recently released a study that showed categorically that national standards in the UK had destroyed the UK education system. But even— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy) 
: Excuse me— 
MOANA MACKEY 
: Well it is very important Mr Assistant Speaker Roy because the Carter Observatory works on national standards and on helping teachers who are teaching the curriculum. We are losing that experience which is why I am bringing it into this debate. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Eric Roy) 
: The member is drawing a long bow. 
MOANA MACKEY 
: It is a long bow but it is a very important bow—a very important bow. When we look at the national standards in the UK we see that at least they included science. The national standards in the UK were numeracy literacy and science. That is where the Carter Observatory would have an important role in ensuring that our teachers had access to that information and that experience. For that reason we are very pleased that the Carter Observatory will be continuing in its educational role even though science is not part of the national standards in New Zealand. I think that is an absolute abomination and an absolute tragedy because every New Zealand student should be taught science as an absolute priority. It should be placed on the same platform as numeracy and literacy. I think that it is an indictment on the current Government that it has not done that. 
Members have raised the issue of whether we will have another national observatory. Well we may or we may not. I have to point out again that we now have centres of research excellence which pick up some of this role. The centres of research excellence were started under the previous Labour Government. They were a very good initiative and they have picked up some of the role of bringing people together around an issue like astronomy which the Carter Observatory specialised in. They bring together Crown research institutes businesses universities and everyone else who is interested around a core issue and they get them to work together. They have been an enormous success and maybe we will see something like that develop. Maybe the Mount John Observatory down in Canterbury might be one that picks up that role. 
For my own reasons I alert members to the existence of a very very fantastic observatory in Whakatane. It is as the  
New Zealand Herald 
 has said a gem in New Zealand in terms of its capacity and the work that it is doing. The skyline above Whakatane is unpolluted. It is unadulterated by light although there are a few issues with local supermarkets turning on their lights late at night. But the fact is that many observatories around the country are looking to help fill the role that a national observatory once filled. If members are interested they can go and look at the website www.skyofplenty.com. It is not profit making; it is a community facility. If members are ever staying in the Bay of Plenty overnight I stress that they should go up and look at the Whakatane Observatory because it is truly wonderful. It has three telescopes and two observatories. It performs an educational function; it has a teaching room. It has astrophotography which students love. Of course this will be more difficult now that the Carter Observatory is not a national observatory but I am merely pointing out that there are other excellent facilities around the country that carry out this very important function in astronomy. 
David Shearer 
: Get your own bill. 
MOANA MACKEY 
: Ha ha! There is a large audiovisual room for the students. It can cater for the students who come through overnight and spend the night up there looking at the stars. It is incredible that in the middle of provincial New Zealand we have this astonishing facility. Even though we are passing legislation that moves the Carter Observatory one of our national icons from a national observatory to an educational and tourism facility—which does not diminish it in any way—it is important to recognise that a number of other facilities around the country also carry out these very important functions. Members should go and look at the Whakatane Observatory. I highly recommend it to members. 
COLIN KING (National—Kaikoura) 
: 
 It is a pleasure to speak during the second reading of the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. I will deal with the aspects of the mechanics of this legislation. There was total agreement during the select committee process but it is interesting to see in Part 2 how the bill deals with the transition of ownership. Clause 8 talks about the liabilities vesting with the Crown leading up to 20 December 2007 and then after 20 December 2007 the responsibility is vested with the council. To make sure that everything abides by the law clause 9 was put in to ensure that no duty would be paid on the gifting of ownership from the Crown to the Wellington City Council. 
The other aspect I will deal with is that financial matters needed to be tidied up. Clause 10 states that on the date of commencement or as soon as is reasonably possible after that date the previous board is to deliver to the Minister a completed set of accounts. They will then be put on the Table of the House within 28 days of that date. This bill certainly tidies up the transfer of the Carter Observatory from the Crown to the council. 
One thing that fascinated me when I was reading the Wellington City Council submission was that the council thought that having an observatory was an interesting diversion from shopping. The beautiful Carter Observatory was somewhere that people could go to as tourists and observe. It is very interesting. It is very reassuring I am sure that when our wives or our spouses are in town they could possibly go up and look at the Carter Observatory. They can learn and their knowledge of the universe can be built up and they will not have to go down town and go shopping. I think that the bill is very complete and on that basis I commend it to the House. 
GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central) 
: 
 As the local member in whose electorate the Carter Observatory stands I am very proud to stand here tonight and support the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. It was a nice occasion when we had the reopening launch and Dr Mapp gave a moving speech—or people moved fairly quickly towards the refreshments immediately afterwards—[ 
Interruption 
] It was a very very good speech; I should not be so ungracious to Dr Mapp. It was a very good speech. In fact he shared with us some of his astronomical background and even some astrological background as well so it was a very good speech. 
I first want to lay on the table the importance of the role of the Wellington City Council here. It has taken on the Carter Observatory and has committed itself in terms of both the funding that it has put in place to do the refurbishment and the long-term funding to support the observatory. It now has a key place in Wellington City tourism attractions. I know that my colleague Heather Roy is a strong supporter of Zealandia: The Karori Sanctuary Experience which has also had a refurbishment in recent times with the development of the visitor experience there. We also have the Otari-Wilton’s Bush near where I live in the suburb of Wilton and Te Papa and other tourist attractions that are really allowing Wellington to create a good tourist experience that is built around the natural advantages that we have. 
Most of the MPs in the House will have travelled on the cable car up towards the Carter Observatory. A great way for people to experience Wellington as a city is to get on the cable car reach the top and take a short walk to the Carter Observatory and see it in all its glory now. So I think it is a real testament to the Wellington City Council. It has shown a great degree of patience I might add having had this bill before the House for some time. The council has taken on its roles and responsibilities in the absence of having a legislative mandate for that so I think the House needs to congratulate the Wellington City Council on its work in that regard. 
It is important to note that the future of the Carter Observatory is now as an education and tourism destination. It is not the national research observatory any longer and other members in the House have discussed how that has come about. I still think there is a place for us to think about how we continue to fulfil research functions as they relate to astronomy and to the role of the observatory but clearly that is not the future for the Carter Observatory. The future for the Carter Observatory is in tourism. 
After Dr Mapp’s moving speech in the planetarium at the Carter Observatory we sat and stared at the stars. [ 
Interruption 
] The member should have been there; it was a beautiful experience. It was an occasion when one realises just how fantastic it would be for children to go there. I think a lot of us realise as Moana Mackey said before that astronomy is the gateway to science for an awful lot of people. As I sat there in the planetarium I reflected on what the future would be for a young person who came to the Carter Observatory found him or herself fascinated by science and wanted to get involved in research. Perhaps that person would look to the Government to see whether that was something that was important to the Government. 
Moana Mackey 
: Don’t do that. 
GRANT ROBERTSON 
: No they really should not do that. To start with one of the early actions that people at the Carter Observatory might have noticed from the Government was the cutting of support for science advisers in schools. They are the very people who help gather together the resources and support the teachers who might be taking their students to the Carter Observatory and their support was cut out by this Government. But of course that is small beer only in comparison with removing the research and development tax credits and taking away the Fast Forward fund. Although we did see some funding in the recent Budget on research and development and supporting science in effect it is nowhere near enough. It is half of what National promised in 2008 and it is half of what would have been there had we stuck with Labour’s Fast Forward fund and research and development tax credits. 
It is also important for people sitting in the observatory thinking about a career in science to realise that it is not just the Government that will be supporting science but also the private sector. We have not had a great record in New Zealand of private sector investment in research and development and in science but that is what the research and development tax credit was about. It was about encouraging private sector investment in science and giving some notion that the Government understood the importance of it. Even if it is not accepted for its own value there is the fact that Australia has it and therefore if Australia has it we are automatically at a disadvantage. We hear often from members on the other side of the House that we need to catch up to Australia and compare ourselves with Australia. Yet the Government has walked away from an area where Australia is saying that it thinks that private sector investment in research and development is important and that it will support it. 
So young people who visit the Carter Observatory and consider a career in science are getting all the wrong signals from this Government. They are not seeing the Government putting its own money into research and development. They are not seeing the Government supporting the private sector to put its money into research and development. I think that is a very sad thing because if we are going to increase our standard of living and if we are going to be a sustainable country as we go on into the 21st century we need to be investing in new technology and encouraging young people to follow science through and to see that science is in fact not just something that is interesting of itself and that looking into astronomy being at the Carter Observatory and looking at the stars is only a gateway. If we can encourage people to see a career in science if they can see that there is both money to be made and great satisfaction from the discoveries that one makes when one is interested in science we need the Government to support that. 
So I certainly support the bill. The Carter Observatory is playing a tourism role in Wellington City as I have mentioned and it is also continuing to play its education role. I pay tribute to the staff of the observatory who not only have managed to work through a period of great change and a period in which they had to suffer uncertainty about their future but also through that period have continued to produce good-quality resources for teachers and students to use. As Moana Mackey said they have played a role as a private training establishment. They are accredited by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. It is high-quality science and high-quality education and a fantastic tourism experience for anyone who is visiting Wellington. I encourage all MPs to make the most of their time in Wellington and visit attractions such as the Carter Observatory and Zealandia and ensure that they get what Wellington has to offer. 
Moana Mackey 
: And the Whakatane Observatory. 
GRANT ROBERTSON 
: And should they find themselves in Whakatane as Ms Mackey says yes they should visit the Whakatane Observatory. 
LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupo) 
: 
 I am pleased to speak in support of the Carter Observatory Act Repeal Bill. As many of the speakers before me have said the Carter Observatory has had a close association with and much support from the Wellington City Council so the repeal of this Act and the transfer of the assets to the Wellington City Council makes a lot of sense. Although the Carter Observatory has in the years preceding the current day carried out very valuable scientific work it has moved on now. Although initially its secondary objective was public education and visits that has moved into the forefront in terms of what is available at the Carter Observatory. It has led to an increase in people who are interested in visiting the planetarium and is less about the science focus as we have heard from other speakers. 
It is important to spend a moment acknowledging the value that the Carter Observatory provides in education. I think of the fortunate students these days who are able to have a hands-on learning experience. If we look at the Carter Observatory website we see the sorts of things that those students can look at. It is obviously a very interactive exhibition. They look at the story of space time and matter and the sheer scale of the universe the big bang and the interpretation of how the world began. That topic has of course fascinated people up and down the country young and old. 
Visitors to the Carter Observatory can travel through a black hole and into the solar system and learn about all the planets that are surrounding us. I think it is a really important part of the learning experience that is available here in Wellington and it will obviously be here for many years to come. It is important to note that this attraction is available day and night so as one of my colleagues said before we could take a diversion from a shopping expedition and take a trip to the observatory. Equally people can get married there which is fascinating. So it is a valuable asset to Wellington and to this district and town. I am delighted to support the bill. 
Bill read a second time.