Webb DuncanDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Tēnā koe Mr Speaker. Look I give that speech a D. I give it a D because that's really what typifies it. I don't think there's any deniers left over that side but I have my suspicions. But the next D I see there is yet again delay—delay delay delay one more day one more year one more decade one more lifetime. That's where we would be if we did it the way they would like but the time absolutely is now. And the fact of the matter is that it's not time to delay not time to deny not time to defer and deflect to turn our attention elsewhere. The time is now to look clearly and urgently at the problem which is before us and it is a problem. The fact of the matter is that carbon costs. The illusion is that it doesn't because it's spread thinly—thinly geographically and thinly over time. But every carbon emission is costing us and it will cost us our livelihoods it will cost nations their land and yet they would have us delay. The time is not to delay. The time is for action. And look I know there's concerns out there and it's entirely unsurprising when we have a significant change that there's anxiety. Only the other day Saturday in fact I was on a street corner in Christchurch talking to people talking to my constituents. At street corner meetings I imagine we know we get a full range of people and an older guy a bit older than me probably a boomer came up to me and he made all of the arguments in succession.Not now. Our current circumstances dictate—we're in the middle of an economic crisis." We're always in the middle of some situation. There is always a reason to do nothing. It takes courage to say further delay is wrong; we must act now. In fact in this crisis in this economic crisis is exactly the right time because we are in times of change. Let us take advantage of the fact that there are people out there who can redeploy who can shift our economy to a low and ultimately no-carbon economy. "We can't make a difference. We're tiny. We're less than 1 percent." Now that's another trick another philosophical trick where if we break ourselves up small enough into small enough units no one can make a difference and together we drown. So each of us each 1 percent each 0.5 percent has to take their load. And what's more is we should take more than our load because we have been emitting more carbon than just about any other nation in the world per capita for decades. That's why we should be lifting more now than some of our neighbours and we're better placed to do so."Too fast it's all too fast. Let's just defer it a bit more. Give us more time to transition." Well there are two things to say about that. The first is that this has been on the books since 2008 and we've done nothing. It's had no effect. The other thing is that we've got a 50-year time horizon to get to carbon zero. So let's not think we're being hasty. Let's think we're taking the first tentative—gingerly stepping down a very long but very important road. "The system hasn't worked." Well it hasn't worked because it was broken. It wasn't designed correctly and that lot knew it and they didn't fix it. They sat on it they watched it and they twiddled their thumbs whilst the fires kept burning. This cap and trade system—a cap and trade system with a cap and trade—is one that will work.Look I want to touch on one which you know has raised some genuine concern in some communities. And that's the fear that there's going to be too many trees. I want to recognise this and recognise the fact that there are rural communities in particular which are anxious about this. The first thing to note is that we have fewer trees now fewer forests now than we did in the 1990s. And this system the 2008 system and the illusory credits that were out there in fact led to deforestation in the long term led to fewer forests. Now we do want the right forests in the right place; we don't want to see forests planted on good productive land. But this is not and forests are not the way ultimately to a zero-carbon future. The way to a zero-carbon future is through good progressive technologies and that's what this does. This bill is nudge politics at its best. It's saying we need to recognise that carbon costs and that we need to put those costs where they are properly borne on the sector which emits that so that the sector changes so that they make rational decisions about the costs that they're imposing on others here in New Zealand and in this case around the world."Wait for the science." is the other one. That's another delay. "Let's just wait. Something is just over the horizon. They're working on it. Solar panels will get better. We'll genetically modify our cows not to emit methane." Well if that's the approach we take we can take that one for ever as well. It is just delay in disguise."It will stop economic growth." That as the Minister for Climate Change said is the biggest fallacy. If we look at countries that have achieved reductions in carbon they are the countries with the highest growth. They have harnessed technology and they have managed to do this in growing economies. And whilst Treasury projections in respect of this bill see a modest reduction in GDP in fact history would suggest that this will be a huge boost as we enhance our productivity enhance our energy efficiency enhance our transport networks and so on. So this is in fact a great and timely piece of legislation. It is a big bill and as was noted it's a complicated bill.Hon Nathan Guy: 724 pages.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: It's 724 pages of absolute progressive green gold and I absolutely endorse it. It is a money bill. It's a bill which deals with finance. It isn't a finished work. It will never be a finished work. A machine that is this important this complex and this valuable requires ongoing maintenance. So do expect to see it back here like you would with any piece of legislation which is critical to the working of our economy and our country. This is a bill which creates a market and I'm surprised that the Opposition are not supporting it because it is a market-based solution to an environmental problem and it's a huge leap forward. I want to say this. Being part of passing this legislation along with the other climate change legislation is a highlight of this term of Parliament. I'm very proud to have been part of it. It's been a real privilege. I commend it to the House."