11. Question No. 11—HealthSIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga) to the Minister of HealthQuestion No. 11—Health11. SIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga) to the Minister of Health: When did the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs give its advice that synthetic cannabinoids AMB-FUBINACA and 5F-ADB be scheduled as class A controlled drugs and what action has he taken on this advice?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Health): The Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs met on 17 April 2018. I was advised of the outcome in the weekly report of 6 to 12 May which also advised me that the ministry would consult with relevant stakeholders on the recommendation and prepare a health report for consideration. On 13 August I instructed the ministry to prepare a Cabinet paper to progress this matter. I received that paper on 5 September.Simeon Brown: In light of the advice from the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs will he commit to scheduling AMB-FUBINACA and 5F-ADB as class A drugs; if not why not? Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: That matter is going to be considered in coming weeks. Reclassification has the advantage that it allows the police wider search and seizure powers if it's then classified under the Misuse of Drugs Act and I think that interrupting supply is something New Zealanders could agree with.Simeon Brown: Will his Government also support my bill which will increase penalties to supply other dangerous synthetic drugs following his statement on One News last night that Disrupting supply is a good thing."?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: Just increasing penalties alone is not a solution to the synthetic cannabis issue. The advice from the Ministry of Health is clear: there is insufficient evidence that increased penalties will lead to reduced drug-related harm. It also advised that increases in penalties do not necessarily produce a corresponding deterrent effect. I can put it no better than the police who are on record saying "We will not enforce our way out of this problem." Drug abuse is a health issue. This Government will treat it as such.Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he agree with the recent UN Human Rights Council recommendation that providing support prevention and treatment measures instead of increased criminal penalties results in a decrease in drug use and the drug-induced mortality rate?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I agree that there is no convincing evidence that increased penalties will reduce harm. We need to treat drugs as a health issue—so yes support prevention and treatment are the key. I think the public will also agree that interrupting the supply of drugs which are killing people is also important so widening the police's search and seizure powers is also worthwhile.Simeon Brown: How many deaths have been reported to the coroner caused by the consumption of synthetic drugs which includes synthetic cannabinoids AMB-FUBINACA or 5F-ADB since he first received this advice from the expert advisory committee?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I can speak to the fact that the coroner has reported back and has estimated 40 to 45 deaths have happened—Hon David Bennett: Oh! On your hands!SPEAKER: Order!Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: —during the past year. I forget where the year runs to. Obviously that was mostly before we took office but we are responding. This Government is taking action. One of the things that we did when we formed the coalition Government was establish the Government Inquiry into Mental Health and Addiction a powerful and broad inquiry that is looking directly at the problem of addiction and access to drugs like synthetic cannabis. The synthetic cannabis issue was also taken to the first Cabinet meeting following the release of the coroner's findings about related deaths. As a result of that meeting experts from the Ministry of Health police along with the Ministry of Justice National Drug Intelligence Bureau and the New Zealand Customs Service were asked to find solutions to this tragic problem. A decision on possible reclassification will be taken in coming weeks.Hon Ruth Dyson: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. During the Minister's answer to that question a totally inappropriate interjection was made—more inappropriate because we were talking about people who have died and I'd ask you as Speaker to ask the member responsible to withdraw and apologise.SPEAKER: I called the member to order when he made the interjection. I don't propose to take it any further.Simeon Brown: Given that he has claimed to be taking this issue seriously how can—sorry can I start again Mr Speaker?SPEAKER: Certainly.Simeon Brown: How can he claim that the Government is taking this issue seriously given that more than 100 answers to written questions show that he and his ministerial colleagues of the multi-agency working group have taken no action to address this issue for months the mental health inquiry does not include synthetic drugs in the terms of reference and how many more deaths from synthetic drugs will it take for him to take this issue seriously?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: I reject a number of the assertions made in that statement. This Government takes the issue incredibly seriously. The member may wish to dismiss the work going on between responsible agencies but that work is how we will find meaningful solutions. What I can tell the member is that we are working closely with the police and the New Zealand Drug Foundation. We are talking to service providers and drug users to identify areas of need and how we can reduce them. We are also focusing on community-based initiatives such as those operating in Porirua and the Far North that may be expanded. Locking people up for longer may look like tough action but we need to take measures that will actually reduce harm."