Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeHipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 10 April 2013. Volume:689;Page:9211. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]11.CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to theMinister of Education: Does she stand by all of her answers to Oral Question No 11 on 26 March 2013; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education): Yes. However as the member is aware on 26 March I also made a personal explanation to the House to clarify that although I was not consulted at the final stage of the State Services Commissioner’s decision to accept Ms Longstone’s resignation I had been involved in earlier discussions.Chris Hipkins: Why did she indicate that the State Services Commissioner had not consulted her about Lesley Longstone’s resignation?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Because I had misunderstood the question relating to the final decision-making powers which rest exclusively with the State Services Commissioner.Chris Hipkins: When did the State Services Commissioner first discuss Lesley Longstone’s possible resignation as the Secretary for Education with her?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I was first informed on 6 December 2012 that Ms Longstone and the State Services Commissioner were in discussions as part of her annual performance review and that Ms Longstone was considering returning to the United Kingdom and if so would step aside from her position. I was informed on Tuesday 18 December that Ms Longstone had resigned and the State Services Commissioner had accepted her resignation and that he would be holding a press conference the following day about this.Chris Hipkins: Did she indicate in any discussions with the State Services Commissioner a preference that Lesley Longstone should not continue as the Secretary for Education; if so why?Hon HEKIA PARATA: As is standard practice for all Ministers I was involved in the State Services Commissioner’s annual performance review process for chief executives. As part of this process I provided a wide range of feedback on Ms Longstone’s performance to the commissioner. There are contractual arrangements between the State Services Commissioner and Ms Longstone regarding her employment. I have been advised that to go into any further detail about performance matters would be a breach.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask about any performance matters to do with Lesley Longstone. I simply asked the Minister whether she indicated a preference that Lesley Longstone should not continue as the Secretary for Education.Mr SPEAKER: I appreciate the member’s point of order. I listened carefully to the question and the answer and I think it has been adequately addressed. The member has further supplementary questions.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I will not overly labour this but the question is—I did not ask—Mr SPEAKER: I know exactly what the member asked and I listened very carefully to the answer. I think that on this occasion the question has been addressed. I invite the member to ask a further supplementary question.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Before I ask a further supplementary question which I would like to do if you could indicate to me whether the answer was affirmative—Mr SPEAKER: No. You had the opportunity to listen to the answer as I did. If the member wants a further supplementary question I advise him to take it.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Is this a point of order on a completely different matter?Chris Hipkins: It is a completely different point of order.Mr SPEAKER: A fresh point of order?Chris Hipkins: It is a completely different point of order. This is a relatively serious matter and there is very—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! A point of order is being heard and it will be heard in silence.Chris Hipkins: That is actually the point of order I was going to raise. There are very clear rulings from the Speaker that points of order are to be heard in silence. I do not think I have raised any trivial matters in points of order. Is that standard still going to apply?Mr SPEAKER: Yes it does. The House has been particularly noisy from all parts of the House today but the member has further supplementary questions.Chris Hipkins: Did she indicate to the State Services Commissioner at any stage that Lesley Longstone should not have to work out her notice as Secretary for Education; if so why?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Matters of that nature are exclusively the preserve of the employment contract and its processes between the chief commissioner and the employee.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask her about matters relating to the State Services Commissioner and Lesley Longstone. I asked her what signals she gave to the State Services Commissioner. That is actually her responsibility as a Minister.Hon Gerry Brownlee: It is quite clear from what Minister Parata has said to the House that it would be inappropriate for her to give any sort of indication about what were effectively and what are effectively—and people on the other side of the House who have been Ministers will know this—confidential discussions between the State Services Commissioner and the Minister about the performance of chief executives. I think the way she answered that is effectively saying it is not in the public interest to continue and that should be accepted.Hon Trevor Mallard: I speak with some experience both as a portfolio Minister and Minister of State Services—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is a point of order and it will be heard in silence otherwise a member is going to be asked to leave the Chamber.Hon Trevor Mallard: Ministers have on a number of occasions been asked to indicate in this House whether or not they have confidence in their chief executives. This question goes to that. The question goes to the spending of probably a quarter of a million dollars extra because of the lack of notice. My experience is that a Minister’s opinion would be sought on that by the commissioner. On the question of whether a Minister could work with the chief executive that opinion would be sought and justlike a Minister can be asked whether they have confidence in the chief executive that response should be a matter of record. It may well be that the Minister indicated that she could not but I think given the large amount of money—public money—that was spent on someone to be sent back to the United Kingdom we have the right to know whether Hekia Parata indicated that she thought that was appropriate.Mr SPEAKER: The difficulty I have with the last point of order is that it is not actually the question that was asked. It is sort of the information that the member is trying to obtain—I accept that. The question was whether the Minister indicated whether it was her preference that Ms Longstone work out her notice etc. and the answer which I think Mr Brownlee has put very succinctly and the way I interpreted the answer was that it is a private matter and it is not in the interests of an employment agreement for that to be breached. That is the difficulty I have as Speaker but the member has further supplementary questions. I invite him to ask them.Chris Hipkins: Was she made aware when she was consulted about Lesley Longstone’s resignation that her early departure rather than working out her notice would cost the taxpayer an additional $267952?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I had no knowledge of those arrangements until after they had been finalised. They were an employment matter between Ms Longstone and the State Services Commissioner.Chris Hipkins: Did she indicate to the State Services Commissioner at any stage that she would be happy for Lesley Longstone to leave her contract early and not work out any notice period?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The employment relationship was between Ms Longstone and the State Services Commissioner. Therefore any details related to that were properly the preserve of those discussions and I was not involved in them.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That is not what I asked the Minister. I asked her whether she indicated that she—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am going to invite the member to ask that question again.Chris Hipkins: Did she indicate at any stage of her discussions with the State Services Commissioner that she would be happy for Lesley Longstone to leave her contract early rather than work out her notice?Hon HEKIA PARATA: As I have indicated in my previous answer as those matters are part of the employment process between Ms Longstone and the State Services Commissioner I was not involved in them. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Question No. 12 the Hon Tariana Turia. [Interruption] Order! I have called the Hon Tariana Turia for question No. 12.