Duncan Helen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Duncan Helen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:614;Page:10577] 
5.  
HELEN DUNCAN (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: What steps is he taking to increase participation in early childhood education? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 This Government is investing $8 million to create more than 1200 new places for children in early childhood education centres. Seventy-two community-based non-profit early childhood services will receive this funding to establish new centres extend buildings or remove health and safety hazards. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: When there are waiting lists for some of our early childhood providers and many children cannot attend early childhood education centres why is it that if a visitor to New Zealand enrols his or her child at any early childhood institution the Government will fund that child at the full rate regardless of citizenship status? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I am not quite so concerned about the citizenship status. I think residency is a question and given the very good representations— 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Non-residents. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think we even have a few non-citizens around this place every now and again. I am not concerned about that. I am concerned about residence status and we are doing a funding review. Given the very good representations the member has made that will be included in it. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that half of all children who receive subsidies for early childhood education attend privately owned centres and why are privately owned centres excluded from this scheme thus excluding those children who attend them? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No I cannot confirm the numbers— 
Hon Bill English 
: You should know them. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I cannot confirm the numbers because the member is again making mistakes. Again he just cannot count. 
Hon Bill English 
: 57 percent. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No the member does not understand the difference between community and private early childhood education centres. [ 
Interruption 
] He has it wrong again. [ 
Interruption 
] But the key point is— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: For a start the member interjected three times in the second person which involves me. He knows that is out of order. I now want the Minister to come to the answer concisely. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In that answer as with every answer he has given this particular Minister chose to make insulting comments about the questioner rather than answer the question. I ask you to ensure that Ministers answer the question rather than as this Minister repeatedly does get into a personal attack on the member concerned. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It would have been made very much easier for me to do that if the questioner had not been involving me in his interjections. But I take the member’s point—the Minister will now come to the answer. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: In answering the member’s question I point out that his numbers are inaccurate. Secondly it is not the role of the Government to provide capital—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will now stand withdraw and apologise. Twice now he has involved me by way of the two interjections he has made. 
Hon Bill English 
: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This Minister always answers questions by saying that the questioner does not know what he or she is talking about. In this case he now says that I did not know the numbers when the first thing he said was that he did not know the numbers. If you are going to allow him to do that every time I ask a question you can expect consistent disorder. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If I get that sort of comment again from the member he will be leaving the Chamber. I am not having that sort of nonsense at all. The member started his answer by saying that the member was inaccurate. He is perfectly entitled to make that statement. That was the first thing he said in his answer after I had upheld the point of order of the Hon Dr Nick Smith. I want the Minister now to answer the question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. No disrespect to you but that is not how the Minister started his answer. He started his answer—some time before Dr Smith took his point of order—with a direct personal attack upon the questioner. You must accept that this is not the first day that we have brought up the issue of Mr Mallard’s style as Minister. It might be perfectly acceptable for the Labour Government to present a Minister of Education as he chooses to present himself but all we want is direct answers to questions—not personal attacks upon people who apparently have no right to ask him those questions. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I upheld Dr Smith’s point of view. I did uphold his point of order. I said to the Minister: “Please answer the question.” He then started by saying: “I will.”—or words to that effect—“The member is not accurate.” There is nothing out of order in that particular sentence. I have already ruled on that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is with a sense of déjà vu that we have heard that ruling as well. Earlier today the Minister of Immigration got up here and said that the most recent correspondence concerned a series of circumstances. I have just tabled the proof that that is not true—dated 22 November. When is she going to get up and table the evidence of what she said and for which you admonished me when I criticised her? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is up to the Minister. It is not up to me. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is very much to the point of order in the House. How can you expect order to be maintained when Ministers can behave as Lianne Dalziel has today and as Trevor Mallard is behaving now? In the case of Mr Peters’ question there was clearly a total misleading of the House in the answer that was given. In the case of Mr Mallard there was a deliberate design to antagonise the questioner. If this sort of behaviour continues then it can only be expected that Opposition members who are required to provide significant backup and authority to the questions they submit will become disorderly. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are two different issues—the one raised by Mr Peters which is very different from the other question. I refer him to Speaker’s ruling 129/3 of 1992: “The Speaker has no jurisdiction to determine whether the answer to a question is correct.” As far as the second point of order is concerned I ruled in favour of the member raising it. I now come to the Minister—he is to give his answer specifically and without any personal comments. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: It is not the policy of this Government to provide State funding for the capital portion of private businesses. 
Helen Duncan 
: Can the Minister tell the House why this Government believes that increasing participation in quality early childhood education is vitally important? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: It is very important. A lot of research shows that the particular benefits go to those people who are most likely to miss out in education—Maori Pacific Island people and those who live in rural areas. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: I seek the leave of the House to table an answer to a written question that demonstrates that the Government’s policy is to fully fund every child in early childhood centres regardless of the residence or non-residence status of the parents. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.