Willis Nicola; Sepuloni CarmelNICOLA WILLIS (National): Thank you. My question is a simple one to the Minister which reflects what surely is one of the primary goals of the Ministry of Social Development and it is: why has the number of people receiving a main benefit increased so significantly since 2017 with 67000 more New Zealanders receiving a jobseeker benefit today compared to when the Labour Government came to office and why is this the case in a time of record job vacancies with employers crying out for workers?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): I'm really relieved that we never got to the forecast numbers that Treasury had predicted when we were hit with the pandemic. They had anticipated that we could get as far as I believe 497000 people on benefit. If we had not responded as quickly as we did at the beginning of the pandemic and put the measures in place that we did including the wage subsidy thousands more New Zealanders would have lost jobs because of the pandemic. It was always anticipated that there would be an increase in beneficiaries because of the pandemic and then everything that ensued from that but we never reached those numbers. I think we got just over 390000 at maximum and then we have come back down since then.Yes the labour workforce or the labour market is very strong at the moment but what we are finding is that many that have come on benefit don't necessarily have the skills or experience to take up the jobs that are available in their regions. That is why as a Government we have been so focused on upskilling and training and working with Ministry of Social Development clients to address the barriers to employment that exist.One of those barriers I mentioned earlier and that is not having a driver's licence or transport to actually work. I think around 70 percent of employers require that you do have a driver's licence so that they can be assured that you're going to be able to get to work. But there are other skills and experiences that many who come on benefit are lacking and therefore not able to take up the jobs that are available. I'm really proud of some of the investments we've made to support New Zealanders who are on benefit into the jobs that are available. One of those areas is certainly the trades and a big shout out for the Apprenticeship Boost Programme which has now seen over 60000 apprentices go through. That investment made during COVID-19 and that continues under our Government is so important for supporting people into employment but so important for addressing workforce shortages that have existed for far too long. I think it was the responsible investment to make during the pandemic. I will note that when the Global Financial Crisis hit instead of investing in supporting people to upskill and train in areas like construction and more generally the trades unfortunately at that point in time the Government decided to cut funding to apprenticeships which is definitely what added to the workforce shortages we have seen across the building and construction sector. So our Government responded differently and I think the investments that we made were the right ones.Nicola Willis: Point of order Madam Chair. I understood that this debate was an opportunity for the Minister to provide information in relation to questions about the Estimates. The Minister has made a very wide-ranging contribution—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Thank you. First of all the Speaker in the Chair is the sole judge of relevance and I'll remind the member that the Estimates is a wide-ranging debate.