Carter DavidRt Hon DAVID CARTER (National): Thank you Madam Chair. I rise in this particular call to support the amendment proposed by the Hon Dr Nick Smith. I had no intention of taking a call on this particular legislation until learning of this particular amendment that Dr Nick Smith has advanced and I do it on this basis. I stood at the last election as a list member candidate at No. 3 on the list and I expected to come to this Parliament as a list member of the National Party but never—never—to be told what my conscience should do and never—never—be told how I should vote on any particular issue. I come into that caucus every Tuesday very privileged to be there as a member of a National caucus but under no circumstances in putting my name forward for 23 September last year did I give my conscience to the now leader of the National Party the Hon Simon Bridges—or whomever that leader might have been. I come here with my conscience and my ability to exercise my vote on every particular issue but what this legislation does is it changes my employment conditions. I think the Hon Dr Nick Smith has found the solution: allow members of Parliament to come in at the next election and if they want to be bound by those rules they know those rules on the day they put their nomination in because I doubt whether I would bother to stand to be a member of any political party if I were to give my conscience upon nomination to whomever the leader was. I'm not interested in serving in a Parliament like that. So—Dr Duncan Webb: You're not interested anyway. Rt Hon DAVID CARTER: Well Dr Duncan Webb interjects and says that this bill doesn't do that—it does. It does do that. It means that the current leader of the Labour Party the Rt Hon Jacinda Ardern can tell Dr Duncan Webb exactly how he will vote and if he doesn't like it the result is he gets kicked out. That's what this legislation does. Coming back into the 52nd Parliament one of the privileged positions I've been able to obtain is serving on the human rights committee of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) and we investigate serious abuses of human rights against many of the 45000 members of Parliament who have joined the IPU. I'm not suggesting for one minute that this rates right up at the top of the human rights abuses that occur around various democracies in this world but I am saying it's the start of a rot. I've observed this Parliament for many many years and I've observed the management of various caucuses—particularly the New Zealand First caucus—and I know why this legislation is here. It's because the Rt Hon Winston Peters does not have a personal ability to manage his caucus but that shouldn't impose on me a change of employment conditions from the basis that I stood for this Parliament. That's why I think the Hon Nick Smith has a solution: put this out until the start of the 53rd Parliament. Let us campaign on it and let's pick up the public's point of view—the voters' concern for this legislation. If they like it it won't worry them at the next election but then if I advance my name to be a member of the National caucus at the next election I will know my employment conditions. I will know that I am then bound by a piece of legislation that tells me that currently the Hon Simon Bridges controls my conscience. Well if that's what I want to enter into I do so with my eyes wide open but don't advance legislation like this that changes those rules effectively retrospectively. I stood for the New Zealand National Party at the last election. I stood as a list member but I never gave my conscience to the Hon Simon Bridges. I want to exercise that as I see fit without having the threat of being expelled from this Parliament because I stand by my principles.