8. Freshwater Management—National Standards and Water Quality of RiversCATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) to the Minister for the EnvironmentFreshwater Management—National Standards and Water Quality of Rivers8. CATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) to the Minister for the Environment: Does the Selwyn - Waikirikiri river at Chamberlains Ford meet the good for swimming" standard as outlined in the Government's Clean Water plan?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment): The new information provided on water quality does not cover flow rates and needs to be interpreted with common sense. A river in flood or a river in drought is not good for swimming. The water quality at Chamberlains Ford has been measured weekly over the summer compared with the 540 E. coli limit. It is currently eight per 100 millilitres it has averaged 43 per 100 millilitres and has never posed any health risk. If the member looks at the website that is provided by the Government it also states that the site has a problem with algae growth.Catherine Delahunty: Would the Minister take a refreshing dip in the Ōpihi River at Waipopo Huts rated as excellent in the new standards while at the same time there are potentially toxic algae blooms that can kill dogs and make people ill at this site?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: We are providing a lot more information for the very first time. E. coli rates over all rivers and lakes across New Zealand where there are problems with algae bloom are also flagged on the website. What we are doing is for the first time giving New Zealand open honest information on the state of our rivers. We share a desire with the Greens to improve the standard; we just want it to be practical.Matt Doocey: What is the downside of setting water quality limits at higher levels like not exceeding 540 E. coli per 100 millimetres more than 1 percent of the time?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The downside is an impractical standard that discourages people from swimming when the risks are negligible. A 1 percent limit would classify both major swimming spots in my home community of Nelson as unswimmable where I and my family have swum hundreds of times. The Sunday Hole and the Lee River picnic area were monitored weekly over summer. The two sites both posed no health risks except during floods when the far greater risk is from drowning. We want a water quality standard that drives improvements but it needs to be practical. Labelling hundreds of rivers like the Lee and Maitai unswimmable would discourage New Zealanders from enjoying a river swim when the risk is negligible if they apply a bit of common sense and do not swim in a river when it is in flood.Catherine Delahunty: Given that Graham McBride from the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA) who advised on the plan has already said that these standards are less precautionary independent scientists have attacked them the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment called them very confusing and Forest and Bird has withdrawn from the Land and Water Forum because of them why should we trust them?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I think the reason Forest and Bird has left the Land and Water Forum is because its former Green leader thinks it is an extension of the Opposition. In respect of the work I would note that respected NIWA scientist Graham McBride is actually one of the architects of the new standards as are other scientists. As for Mike Joy I note that he has said his objective is for New Zealand to have no farm animals by 2050 in New Zealand and that is not the Government's policy.Catherine Delahunty: Let us focus on the questions. Is his clean water package coherent and understandable to people who just want to go for a swim and do not want to look up a complicated and unreliable website before doing so?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The problem is that no Government not even a Green one will be able to prevent floods where E. coli levels go through the roof. So it is only practical to provide good information. My plea would be: when is the Green Party going to get a science-qualified MP so it might have some common sense?"