Penk ChrisCHRIS PENK (National—Helensville): Thank you Mr Chair. It's a pleasure to be able to speak to the Education Amendment Bill specifically Part 1 obviously as we are engaged in this committee stage. I will speak very narrowly if I may on clause 11 of the bill which relates to section 159 of the Education Act. It's to do with interpretation. I did promise you it's going to be pretty narrow—it's narrower than a you-know-what's you-know-what. Specifically it's only one definition at that and it's the phrase permanent member". The significance of that which I'll return to in a minute goes to the appointment of a person or rather the consideration of the appointment process by the Minister in terms of making an appointment to the council.But to the interpretation itself—to that particular definition which will flow to a question that I'd be very grateful if the Minister would address as he's shown willingness to do throughout the debate for which I thank him in anticipation—the definition of "permanent member" in this bill relates to "teaching or general staff of an institution". And I presume that the intent of the drafting there was to capture that it could be any staff member whatsoever. So I just note in passing that perhaps it could have been expressed to be "any staff member" as I understand that the phrase "general staff" probably means any staff other than teaching staff and we've already got teaching staff thereby including the whole lot. But in any case—moving on.So an institution's staff of any kind then and a member thereof who fits one of three different categories—the first is pretty clear: on a basis that is neither casual nor a fixed-term contract. I think and hope that I'm right in saying that's pretty clear. Obviously I'm happy to stand corrected if the Minister has a different view but we're talking about full-time or part-time basis and a period ending either on resignation or retirement—neither of which event is ordinarily known or indeed specified in terms of a calendar date. So that much is clear in terms of the first criterion.The other two options relate to employment: either again full-time or part-time and whether under an employment agreement. That could be in fact a fixed term in this case but here we see that it must be for at least three months. So if we've got a fixed-term contract then in addition to that first criterion it must be at least three months that that particular member in order to be considered a permanent member must have already been by the relevant time employed. Now lest there should be any doubt about the possibility of someone being selected by the Minister in circumstances where they've been employed for less than three months well then we've got a third criterion there.I'd just like to pause at this point and just ask the Minister to reflect on the significance of three months. I don't know if that was a particular time frame based perhaps on ensuring that they would have served at least one school term in the institution and therefore have at least some sort of appreciation for something of the life cycle of a period of time within the school or perhaps not. Perhaps the word "term" there is something of a red herring and I'm reading too much into that. In any case there is scope for the consideration of a person who's been in for less than three months in the circumstances however where for the chief executive of the institution—and I haven't checked to see whether that aspect is defined but in any case it's probably clear enough whether a person holds that role or not—it occurs to them that it's likely to continue for at least three months from the date of commencement of the operation. So all bases seem to be covered; although as I say I'm quite curious on that point about the significance of the three-month mark.The context of this—as I alluded to earlier on and as promised have returned to now—is that under section 222AD as it will be amended in clause 14 the Minister must seek and consider nominations from the relevant council and then when appointing members of the council at least one member is a "permanent member"—that of course being the point that we're defining in that other clause again of the teaching or general staff and so on. Similarly at subclause (2) there one member is a permanent member of the teaching staff and so forth.So that's the significance of that particular definition. I think the clarity would be helpful just to ensure that we understand that that is the most appropriate time period. I'd welcome any advice that the Minister can give us in that regard and I hope that I've gone some way to help clarifying that quite narrow aspect of the legislation whether it shall pass or not."