Coddington Deborah: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Coddington Deborah: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:614;Page:10441] 
4.  
DEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Is he on track for closing about 300 schools as reported in the  
Sunday Star-Times 
 on 2 November 2003 and how many have been closed this year? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 The figure of 300 is an estimate of the total number over the next decade to 15 years based on a drop of 76000 students over the same period. There is no predetermined number of school closures. Fourteen have been closed this year—none as a result of reviews—and eight will be opened next year or the year after. 
Deborah Coddington 
: Why is his ministry sending out letters to principals telling them not to involve pupils in their opposition to school closures when some pupils are old enough to vote are required to be on boards of trustees and are affected by the closures too or does he think that pupils should not have an opinion about the closing of their schools? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I respect the psychologist involved in sending out the letter. I think that from a psychologist’s point of view it was quite good advice and it should be looked at. But I think it would have been better if the ministry had not sent it because it has inflamed the situation. 
Jill Pettis 
: Why is the Government engaged in the process of school network reviews? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: As I indicated before the population drop over the next decade to 15 years of people of school age will be about 76000. It is slightly unfortunate that that is happening quite unevenly around the country. We are building new schools in north-west Auckland and south-east Auckland where there are likely to be 40000 extra people over the next 8 or 9 years. It is important that we have a real matching of where the students are and where the schools are. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Is the Holy Trinity model of shared governance and professional leadership which is currently being proposed for a group of Catholic integrated schools—in line with New Zealand First policy I might say—being promoted as a possible alternative for State school reorganisation through the network reviews? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes it is including by National Party MPs. 
Metiria Turei 
: Is the Minister aware of an email to a South Canterbury mother from Michael Deaker one of the ministry facilitators that states: “The requirement that schools resulting from this review be sustainable over 10 to 15 years and include viable professional communities of teachers ... we have set a roll figure of around 160 as the minimum for country primary schools.”; if so has he told Michael Deaker what he has told this House—that there is no minimum roll figure for rural schools and that Mr Deaker should be careful to give factual and accurate information to communities whose schools are under threat of closure? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes and indirectly yes. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Does he have a response to the 35-page report commissioned by the Timaru District Council that challenges not only the flawed network-review consultation process but also its lack of economic and social impact assessment and the faulty use of population projections? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: In discussing it with the council I have suggested that the fundamental problem is that we have more schools than the number of pupils justify and nobody wants his or her school to close. Education is about children not buildings. Half-empty schools are in nobody’s best interests. I was quoting Nick Smith. 
Deborah Coddington 
: As Minister of Education what does he think is so wrong with the schools that he is closing when the parents are in favour of them the community supports them financially and physically and the Education Review Office has given many of them glowing reports; can he tell the House why he thinks he knows better? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I am not sure of the relevance of the GST comment but the important point that has to be made is that we have to make some choices. I accept it is the ACT point of view that schools should be allowed to drift to closure. As I have indicated 14 have done that so far this year not as part of a review. It is my view that we have to look to having a sustainable network. We have to have schools in the right places. We have some very strong boards of trustees and principals in charge of schools of 13 or 14 pupils when 5 minutes down the road there is another school that is struggling. If we could put the strengths together I think we would guarantee quality education in a way that that member knows is not being delivered in some schools now. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There are a couple of things I want to call to your attention. Firstly at the end of the last question a comment was made to the Minister by the junior Government whip to which he responded at the start of his answer and clearly there was meant to be some barb inside that comment directed towards the questioner. That was inappropriate. It should have been picked up on. 
Secondly in the previous question he was asked whether he would give a response to the Timaru District Council. He chose instead to read a very good quote in the circumstances from the Hon Nick Smith but failed to give his own ideas on that matter. That cannot be considered as addressing the question—if one just says that someone else said this. 
There is another matter that I would ask you to consider in the case of this Minister. Throughout his responses there are these little chips and comments which quite frankly will lead to considerable disorder if they are not heard by you and if he is not required to apologise for his appalling performance. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Three points were raised but the second one has no relevance at all. If a Minister quotes another member and agrees with the member I cannot see what on earth is wrong with that. The first and third points are relevant and were accurately made. I am just warning the junior Government whip to keep quiet. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Would the Minister try again to reply to the last question put by Deborah Coddington asking why is he opposed to small schools that the parents are in favour of the pupils like and the academic results of which are excellent; and is he now saying that the only reason he is closing them is that adjacent big schools are failing and that somehow closing the successful small schools will help? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No.