Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:622;Page:17624] 
2.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister for Industry and Regional Development 
: Does he intend to recover some of the $47 million handed out in grants by New Zealand Trade and Enterprise where those grants have been shown to be in breach of the Cabinet guidelines; if not why not? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON (Minister for Industry and Regional Development) 
: 
 In the style of the Tui advertisements I am inclined to say: “Yeah right!” but in the Christmas spirit I will address the question. As Minister for Industry and Regional Development I do not believe that money should be recovered that was received in good faith by hard-working companies that did not themselves break any rules or criteria for assistance. In terms of the process however the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General has recommended that in considering what action should be taken with regard to a grant for which the documentation has not been adequately kept or if there is some disagreement about the interpretation of Cabinet guidelines the following issues should be taken into account: the substantiveness of any breach; whether the application was made and the grant received in good faith; and following approval by New Zealand Trade and Enterprise whether the recipient may have incurred costs based upon the assumption that the application met the required criteria. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If the Minister wanted to give a longer answer he should have asked me previously and I could have advised the House. That answer was too long. All other answers are to be very brief. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Is the Minister telling the House that his Government is so awash with cash taxed out of the pockets of hard-working and enterprising New Zealanders that he considers the flawed spending of some $20 million as a trifling issue that requires no action whatsoever? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: No the Government is telling the House what businesses and regional agencies all over the country are telling the Government and I quote from a regional economic development agency this morning: “It is all positive and this support for business is part of the reason the New Zealand economy is going so well.” 
Hon Matt Robson 
: Did the Auditor-General find any instances where money for grants given out by New Zealand Trade and Enterprise could not be accounted for? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: No absolutely not. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If this economy is going so well why are we facing the worst balance of payments deficit in this country’s history? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I think the Minister of Finance would say—and we would support him—firstly that the economy is going so well which is why it is growing so rapidly and secondly that a good part of what we now owe overseas is used for productive capital investment and not for paying for the groceries. 
Jill Pettis 
: Did the Auditor-General find any suggestions of misappropriation or deliberate undermining of Government policies in New Zealand Trade and Enterprise staff in handling grants and grant applications? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: Again no absolutely not. 
Rodney Hide 
: Has the Minister been asked by the Prime Minister to provide an explanation to Cabinet about how his department breached Cabinet guidelines in spending taxpayers’ money and will he be providing an explanation to his Cabinet colleagues about how his department breached Cabinet guidelines and kept no paperwork to determine whether in fact in many instances the guidelines were adhered to; if not why not? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There were three questions there. The Minister may answer two. 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: My ministry is the Ministry of Economic Development. It is not in any way associated with the Auditor-General’s report in terms of these grants and the administration of them. But New Zealand Trade and Enterprise is a Government agency and it is that agency that the Auditor-General has audited. I have of course kept my Cabinet colleagues informed and they know that this agency is dedicated to growing the New Zealand economy and to the well-being of New Zealanders. It has been extraordinarily successful. I would challenge anyone in the Opposition who wants to go into the next election saying that he or she will abandon economic development policies regional development policies and the agencies we have created to do that job. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I accept that my “if not why not” may have been a third question but the specific question was whether the Minister had been asked for a “please explain” from the Prime Minister. Nowhere in his answer did he answer that. Is that the assumption that he has been asked to explain? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member asked three questions and the Minister addressed at least two of them. If the member wants only one questioned answered then he should ask only one question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Does he think it appropriate that New Zealand taxpayers should have been expected to stump up with $2617 for two people to stay at the Tongariro Lodge and fish for 2 days; if so what was the direct benefit to the New Zealand economy of that apart from the expenditure itself? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: Mr Brownlee is about a year behind the times. That was actually Brunswick Corporation and it was looked at very carefully about a year ago. Nevertheless the reality is that that corporation is one of the largest in the world. It came in a joint venture with Navman New Zealand Ltd invested $100 million in New Zealand created hundreds of jobs and connected Navman to world global markets that will assist the development of our economy in a way that National-led Governments only dreamt of—or not even that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What hypocritical double standards apply where $85 of expenditure on underpants is to be regarded as revolting and sleaze yet tens of billions of dollars being robbed from the taxpayer under this Minister’s tutelage is OK? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I know of no evidence or even accusation that tens of millions of dollars from the taxpayer have been in any way misappropriated. This is about a process about documentation. It is not about the effectiveness of the programmes or their objectives or the results they are achieving for the New Zealand economy. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If Brunswick Corporation had $100 million to invest in New Zealand as the Government indicated in a previous answer what on earth was the taxpayer doing paying for accommodation and holiday expenses? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: If the member had had any semblance of connection with business development in his whole lifetime he would know that businesses invest money in order to gain development opportunities and that is what this Government has done. In fact it is working very very well. That is why the member is on that side of the House and is likely to stay there for the foreseeable future. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Are you going to accept that as addressing the question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am and the member is not going to dispute my ruling. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Mr Speaker the Standing Orders do point out the specifics of how a question should be answered. For the Minister to stand and in some sort of lecturing manner suggest that we need to subscribe totally to his view of how business should be done in this country is I think unacceptable. It was a simple question. He told us this outfit had $100 million to invest here. We just want to know why it is that the taxpayer had to pay their accommodation. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It was a simple question. The Minister gave a relatively complicated answer. That is not out of order. 
Rodney Hide 
: Has the Minister been asked by the Prime Minister to explain how it was that New Zealand Trade and Enterprise came to be spending taxpayers’ money in breach of Cabinet guidelines with it being unable to be determined as to whether it was within or outside of Cabinet guidelines and will he be doing so? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: The direct answer is no but the indirect answer in brief is that this Government works on the basis of consultation and full disclosure at all times and no surprises. I have always briefed the Prime Minister and I did so on this occasion about the Auditor-General’s report. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Why does New Zealand Trade and Enterprise not monitor the success of grants beyond 12 months and what confidence can taxpayers have that their money is being well spent when New Zealand Trade and Enterprise does not even know whether the companies that receive the grants succeeded or failed? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: New Zealand Trade and Enterprise in cooperation with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Ministry of Economic Development has a full evaluation and monitoring programme in place for the effectiveness of these grants. The Auditor-General’s report deals with process; it does not deal with effectiveness. I would have thought that Opposition members in the House would have been interested in the effectiveness of these not in whether every “i” was dotted and every “t” was crossed.