Hughes Gareth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hughes Gareth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:667;Page:14416] 
5. 
GARETH HUGHES (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Transport 
: Can he confirm that the largest portion of economic benefit coming from rail projects such as the Auckland network electrification and the Onehunga branch line are time savings for road users? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport) 
: 
 Yes that is usually the case for large urban transport projects whether road or rail. In the case of the Auckland rail network upgrade 44 percent of the economic benefits go to road users through time savings. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Which will do more to reduce congestion in Auckland: increasing rail patronage by expanding the network with the central business district rail loop or spending $2 billion on the Puhoi to Wellsford “Holiday Highway”? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Well I think that I will have to give the member a geography lesson because the Puhoi to Wellsford highway is not in the Auckland urban area; it is north of the Auckland urban area linking Auckland with Northland. In terms of comparisons with other big urban transport projects there are some other examples as well—for example the $430 million Victoria Park tunnel will provide about $900 million in travel time savings which shows that all projects provide some savings some more than others. 
Gareth Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not need a geography lesson; my question was specific. I said— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: For goodness’ sake I ask members to reflect on the questions they ask. The Minister’s answer was perfectly reasonable because as he pointed out the Puhoi-Wellsford highway is some distance from Auckland city proper. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was very specific. It was about whether one project reduces congestion more than another project. It is fine for the Minister to have his view about the geographical relationship but it was a question about which one reduces congestion more; he can answer the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: In my judgment the Minister answered the question. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Is it smart economics to use money from the National Land Transport Fund on projects that will reduce congestion for motorists such as Auckland’s central business district rail loop? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Of course road users through the National Land Transport Fund make very big contributions to public transport for exactly those reasons. For example over the current 3-year period roughly $633 million of the National Land Transport Fund is being spent on public transport services for entirely those reasons. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Why is the Puhoi to Wellsford “Holiday Highway” receiving 100 percent funding from the National Land Transport Fund but the central business district rail loop would receive none even though it would benefit many more motorists in Auckland? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: The member presumes a number of things. The reality is that the National Land Transport Fund is paid in for by road users. They get benefits from different projects and those projects are supported by the fund at different times. The main method by which the National Land Transport Fund contributes to public transport is the subsidy of services which the fund does a huge amount of including both bus services and rail services. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Why then is the Transmission Gully motorway receiving 100 percent funding from the National Land Transport Fund but Wellington’s new light rail proposal would receive none even though it would benefit more motorists in the Wellington region? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I think there are some very big assumptions there. First we have no idea what a light rail project in Wellington will cost anybody at this point so those numbers are not even known nor has any sort of business case been done or anything like that. So I think we will have to wait and see how those projects develop over time to assess the contributions that they may or may not make. But again we have to make a distinction between urban highways and the roads that connect different parts of the country. Obviously the Levin to Wellington road of national significance links the whole of the lower North Island to Wellington City. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Will he listen to the message from Wellington it having elected its first Green mayor who campaigned on a light rail platform and investigate the light rail option and increasing the frequency and reliability of peak-time commuter rail in Wellington rather than fully funding and fast tracking the billion-dollar uneconomic Transmission Gully motorway? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: The reality is that the Government’s job is to invest the National Land Transport Fund for the whole of the country’s benefit. Obviously the Mayor of Wellington has views and I look forward to having discussions with her about such projects. But how the member could even ask anybody in this House to compare the benefits of a particular project with the benefits of another one when she has no idea what it would cost to operate to build or anything else is frankly astounding.