Shaw James: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeShaw James: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 03 May 2016. Volume:713;Page:10653. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]1.JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader—Green) to the Prime Minister: On what dates did he discuss with the Minister of Revenue his conversation with Ken Whitney on foreign trusts and what specifically did he say to the Minister?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): There is no record of when I spoke to the Minister of Revenue but it would have been between 27 November 2014 when the New Zealand Herald story first appeared and 2 December 2014 when Mr Whitney emailed the Minister. I informed the Minister that there had been an approach by Mr Whitney who acts for me in my personal capacity; that Mr Whitney was part of an industry group working in the New Zealand foreign trust industry; and that I had told Mr Whitney I was unaware of the issue in the New Zealand Herald story that he had raised and his group should meet with the Minister.James Shaw: Did he tell the revenue Minister to expedite his meeting with the foreign trust industry?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No.James Shaw: Did he tell the revenue Minister to ditch the recommendation of the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) to review the foreign trust sector?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No.James Shaw: Is he comfortable with the fact that his revenue Minister told foreign trust lobbyists in his first meeting with them on 16 December 2014 that “the Government had no intention of conducting a general and public review of foreign trust rules.”?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: That would have reflected obviously the view in the advice that he has got. It is consistent with IRD actually saying that a review would have taken away from work that it wanted to do that was about the New Zealand tax base. But that is not what I instructed him to say because I did not instruct him to say anything in that meeting.James Shaw: What evidence does he have that it was Inland Revenue Department officials and not the Minister who recommended that there not be a review of foreign trust regulation?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I was not part of the meetings; I was not involved in that. My only involvement was that my lawyer at the time came to me and said that there had been a story in the New Zealand Herald. I was quite clear and said: “I have no idea what you’re talking about but you need to go and see the new Minister as part of the lobby group.” They went and that is quite standard practice. Actually people come and approach me every day and I point them towards the Ministers. Just as an example of that if the member was to ever—James Shaw: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was: what evidence does he have about that decision? He did not address that—Mr SPEAKER: No I think that on this occasion he clearly did. When you said “What evidence?” the Prime Minister was laying out the evidence that he had for the statement made.James Shaw: Given that it was his own lawyer who asked for and was granted a guarantee that there would not be a review of foreign trust regulation is he not concerned about the perception that lobbyists can influence Government policy on behalf of vested interests in New Zealand?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The member is misrepresenting the situation. I was asked about a story that was in the New Zealand Herald. I made it quite clear that I did not know the details of that story nor do I handle that—that is handled by Ministers. I did what is the fully and totally appropriate thing: I told the person and their lobby group to go and speak to the Minister. That happens every day. If the member was to ever get into Government is he saying that if Russel Norman ever came up to him and said there was an issue in relation to the environment he would not tell that person to go and speak to the environment Minister? In New Zealand we are a small country; people know other people.James Shaw: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. First of all Russel Norman is not a lawyer—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! If the member wishes to raise a point of order he is welcome. Could I have the point of order please.James Shaw: Certainly. My point of order is that my question was whether he is concerned about the perception that lobbyists can influence Government policy—Mr SPEAKER: No no. There was a lead-in to the question along the words “given that his own”—there was “given a guarantee there wouldn’t be a review” or words to that effect so there was quite a lot more in the question to which the Prime Minister took the opportunity to respond.James Shaw: Will he consider following the UK Government’s practice of publishing Ministers’ diaries so that it is transparent to the public who at least is lobbying whom?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No but my diary and the things that I do are pretty publicly known. This was a situation where someone came up to me and asked me about a story in the paper and I did what I think most New Zealanders would expect me to do which was to say: “Go and speak to the Minister.”James Shaw: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is this a point of order?James Shaw: Yes. My question was about publishing Ministers’ diaries not his own diary.Mr SPEAKER: And the very first word given by the Prime Minister was “No” he would not consider it.