4. Question No. 4—ConservationHon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua) to the Minister of ConservationQuestion No. 4—Conservation4. Hon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua) to the Minister of Conservation: Has she done wrong by the hunting and tourism community in the way she has consulted on her department's proposal to cull tahr; if not why does she think the consultation she has undertaken has been appropriate?Hon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation): No. What is wrong is that National's neglect and its underfunding of the Department of Conservation allowed tahr numbers to explode devastate our threatened alpine plants and habitats and what is wrong—Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Hon EUGENIE SAGE: —is that under National—SPEAKER: Order! Order! A point of order the Hon Gerry Brownlee. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I make a plea for some consistency. You've just been very very strong in putting the Deputy Prime Minister back in his place over what was an attack question—SPEAKER: Order! The member's not referring to something I've dealt with?Hon Gerry Brownlee: —yeah I'm getting there—but you've just allowed the Hon Eugenie Sage to justify her entire position by effectively an erroneous attack on the current Opposition. SPEAKER: Well I think the member might have been making some progress until the very end of it when he drew my attention to the fact that there are disputed facts in the answer. It's not my job to make a judgment around those facts. Can the member start the answer again please. Hon EUGENIE SAGE: Thank you Mr Speaker. No. What is wrong is that National's neglect and underfunding of the Department of Conservation allowed tahr numbers to explode to devastate our alpine plants and alpine habitats and that it stopped engaging with the Tahr Liaison Group. Under this Government we have given the biggest increase in funding to the Department of Conservation in 16 years. That enables the department to properly implement the statutory Himalayan Tahr Control Plan. The department has consulted and engaged with members of the hunting community and so am I. Hon Todd McClay: Is the real reason she's been forced to postpone her tahr kill and reduce the number of tahr to be killed because the Department of Conservation has received two legal letters from recreational hunting groups threatening judicial review unless she enters into proper and meaningful consultation with hunters? Hon EUGENIE SAGE: The tahr control effort is going to proceed as planned. There has been consultation with the Tahr Liaison Group. There is another meeting with the group next week. I will be attending that meeting. Andrew Falloon: Is today's Timaru Herald article correct that as part of a postponement the number of tahr to be culled will reduce from the original plan; if so how many tahr will be culled under the revised plan and why? Hon EUGENIE SAGE: The plan is for the Department of Conservation to control 10000 tahr. The meeting with the Tahr Liaison Group proposed that other hunting stakeholders also contribute to that control effort. There is further discussion on how many tahr groups like wild animal recovery operations operators and the Safari Club International will be controlling. The plan to control 10000 tahr is proceeding because the former National Government allowed them to explode to three times what the plan allows. Hon Gerry Brownlee: Stop lying to the House. SPEAKER: Order! Mr Brownlee? Did the member make an unparliamentary comment? Hon Gerry Brownlee: I withdraw and apologise. Hon Todd McClay: Can she confirm that the Department of Conservation has stopped using lead shot for West Coast predator control because of high levels of lead found in kea but that they've purchased 14000 rounds of lead buckshot that they intend to use for her tahr cull? Hon EUGENIE SAGE: My advice is that the department is well aware of the problems caused by lead to kea and that it will be using ammunition which does not result in the risk of lead poisoning to kea. Hon James Shaw: Has the Minister been handing out weapons to her public servants as alleged by the National Party Twitter account? Hon EUGENIE SAGE: No. Hon Todd McClay: Can she confirm that she has instructed the Department of Conservation to use helicopters to herd tahr and that they will be slaughtering bull nanny and baby tahr with shotguns from these helicopters? Hon EUGENIE SAGE: I know the member is a very keen hunter and is a member of the Rotorua Deerstalkers Association but what National is effectively saying is that the Department of Conservation should not be shooting tahr to protect our mountain lands and alpine plants; it should simply allow the hunters to do that. Recreational hunters have had—Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It would not be hard to make a case that that answer impugns the motives of the questioner; that's quite unreasonable. Secondly there is no way that the balance of the answer delivered today answers this very simple question that's asked.SPEAKER: I think that I was contemplating the first part of the answer and I think it wasn't quite an improper reflection on a member of the House but the tone of it was heading in that direction. It's not something I expect from that Minister. The next point that I would make to the Hon Gerry Brownlee is that I am sure that soon the Minister answering the supplementary question will get to the question.Hon EUGENIE SAGE: Would the Minister like to repeat the question?Hon Todd McClay: The member would love to yes. Can she confirm that she has instructed the Department of Conservation to use helicopters to herd tahr and that they will slaughter bull nanny and baby tahr with shotguns from these helicopters?Hon EUGENIE SAGE: I have not instructed the department to do that but the department will be using aerial control. It needs to do the control operation now before there is another breeding increment this summer. And yes it will be using shotguns in the same way that hunters use guns to kill tahr themselves.Hon James Shaw: Will there be any tahr left in New Zealand once Tahrmaggedon" is over?SPEAKER: No no no."