Collins Judith: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Collins Judith: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8826] 
6. JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development and Employment 
: Can he confirm there were 115357 people on sickness and invalids benefits when his predecessor the Hon Steve Maharey said in August 2004 “We are pretty hopeful that we can start to make some serious inroads into these numbers.”; if so can he confirm that 3 years later numbers on sickness and invalids benefits have increased by another 9124 almost 8 percent to over 124481 today? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
: 
 I understand that the member is referring to a  
Dominion Post  
article of August 2004 titled “Maharey’s dream run” and that of course continues to this day. As the member is well aware we have made very good progress in this area. The rate of growth in these numbers has significantly slowed. I am advised that the rate of receipt of sickness and invalids benefits in New Zealand is around 4.5 percent of the working-age population which compares favourably with Australia’s higher rate of 5.2 percent and with the United Kingdom where 7 percent of the working-age population is in receipt of a sickness or invalids benefit. I know that the member and her Opposition colleagues find it difficult that benefit numbers including those on sickness and invalids benefits have fallen by 136000—34 percent—since 1999 but that does not mean in turn that a relatively small group of people should be vilified because they have become ill pregnant or disabled or have a short life expectancy and need support. 
Judith Collins 
: Does the Minister think New Zealanders are getting value for money when this Government announced in Budget 2005 $128 million to get sickness and invalids beneficiaries into work when 2 years later the number of those beneficiaries has increased by 7000 in just those 2 years; is that good use of money? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: Yes I do. As the member herself demonstrates the workforce is taking on an older profile. The population aged from 40 to 64 years has been increasing rapidly since the early 1980s as the baby boomers move into this age group. This age group is of course more susceptible to illness and disease than those who are younger. The number of people on invalids or sickness benefits who are aged from 50 to 64 years as a percentage of the total number of those on invalids and sickness benefits has steadily increased from 36 percent in 1999 to 42 percent today. 
Steve Chadwick 
: Why are people granted a sickness or invalids benefit and what is the Government doing to support them? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: People are granted sickness and invalids benefits if they become sick injured pregnant disabled or otherwise cannot work. People who are granted invalids benefits are sick have an injury or a disability that is expected to last at least 2 years have a life expectancy that is expected to be less than 2 years or are blind and otherwise qualify for an invalids benefit. However many people do not want their illness or disability to stop them from becoming economically independent and working if they can. The Social Security Amendment Bill is about just that—supporting people into work now and in the future based on what they can do not what they cannot do. I look forward to National Party support for that bill. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Members the level of chat has risen quite considerably in the House so it is becoming quite difficult to hear. If you have to conduct private conversations would you please take them outside the Chamber. 
Judith Collins 
: Can the Minister explain to the House how he can put in $128 million to get fewer sickness and invalids beneficiaries but end up with 7000 more—just how did he do it? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: Could I reinforce for the benefit of the member who is obviously having some difficulty in grasping this that these benefits are available to people who are sick because they are sick. 
Judith Collins 
: Will the Minister confirm that of a target of 15000 eligible people in Manukau his PATHS programme has managed to get only 343 people into work; and would he say 343 out of 15000 was a really good achievement for that $128 million? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am delighted with the success of the PATHS programmes and more will be rolled out in the immediate future. This Government is keen to support people not to make up—as the Opposition does—reasons for not supporting them. 
Judith Collins 
: How can the Minister spend $128 million on getting sickness and invalids beneficiaries into work when 2 years later 7000 more people are too sick to work? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I answered that question earlier. 
Judith Collins 
: No he did not. I think he has given up. Has the Minister ever thought that if he spent less money he might actually get more people off the benefit? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I suppose that is benefit cuts in the National Party style yet again. It might be instructive for the member—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I will ask the Minister to give his reply in silence so we can make some progress here. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: It might be instructive for the member to realise that doctors are the people who assign eligibility to these benefits. 
Judith Collins 
: I seek leave of the House to table a schedule showing the Minister is spending $128 million to get 7000 more people on to the sickness benefit. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection? There is objection.