Reti Shane; Little AndrewDr SHANE RETI (Deputy Leader—National): Thank you Madam Chair. It's a pleasure to speak to the Estimates which were held on 9 June 2021 and I'd like to thank the Minister for joining us today. I'm going to pose questions across five domains a few questions in each. The first will be around health restructuring; the second older people; third dental; fourth a question on Vote Health; and a fifth around Pharmac. I have three questions in the first area then around the health restructuring which is what we discussed at the Estimates which I'd like to pursue further. The first is he's received at least two papers identifying transition risks in the health restructuring—my question is: what are those risks? What risks have been identified? The second question I have is: what are the indicative staff numbers for the Māori Health Authority Health NZ and the Ministry of Health in the restructuring? And my third question in this tranche is the costs in Vote Health were $486 million for the health restructuring but in a written parliamentary question a few days ago we find another $60 million in the maternity health budget for health restructuring. So my question is: when we add up the total not just the $486 million line item but also these tens of millions in other places what is the total number for the health restructuring? Thank you.Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health): Thank you Madam Chair and I thank the member for his questions. Just in relation to what he describes as two papers on transitional risks with every transition with every reform of course there are risks. That is about making sure that the machinery of Government is geared up to get through the legislation the policy advice and then the implementation and there are always risks around implementation. There's issues of capacity capability and competence and we need to be alert to do those so that as we embark on the reforms we are making sure that those factors are taken account of that we manage the transition process in a practical pragmatic sort of way. I'm very satisfied with the progress that has been made the advice that has come to me for ongoing decisions and the advice that is being provided to Cabinet as we reach the various milestones. The next major milestone will be the announcement of the governing boards of both Health NZ and the Māori Health Authority who will then be charged with making sure those organisations are set up. There's always the risk that extant issues such as the COVID pandemic cause further delay. If there is a further outbreak that requires a further lockdown then that would have an impact on it as well. But at the moment there is no factor that is bearing upon the implementation of the reforms. The second question related to indicative staff numbers and I know the member has raised this question before including in written parliamentary questions. We know that when Health NZ is established because it will be an amalgamation of the current district health boards plus relevant staff from the Ministry of Health actually its workforce will be in excess of 77000. The current DHB workforce is 77000. So it'll be that and then whatever sort of transfers in relation to the ministry. In terms of the Māori Health Authority it would pick up some people out of the ministry and they will pick up some people out of the DHBs actually. But I can't give a particular figure and until that board is in place the interim board is in place and they have an interim chief executive and they start the detailed planning about their organisation and how it wishes to operate and where we will be located how it will be structured—that will be a matter for them. They have a budget for the initial phase. Their budget I might add also includes some commissioning funding and that's roughly $100 million. They will do some initial commissioning as they get kaupapa Māori services expanded and further under way. And then they will be also setting up their co-commissioning arrangements with Health NZ. So I can't be more specific about that. But we will have a Health NZ and a Māori Health Authority workforce that reflects the needs of a modern health system delivering equitable healthcare for Aotearoa New Zealand which we don't have at the moment.