Coddington Deborah: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Coddington Deborah: Public Finance (State Sector Management) Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Sitting date: 14 December 2004. Volume:622;Page:17865. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON (ACT) 
: 
 I rise to challenge the Minister Michael Cullen who seemed to imply earlier that I was arguing that universities were calling for no accountability at all. He knows very well that that is not what they were calling for. He confuses State control with accountability for public money. There is no way that the universities are saying they should not be accountable for public money. Why does the Minister not take a call and say why he thinks it is necessary to breach the spirit of sections 160 and 161 of the Education Act why he thinks it is necessary to do away with the convention that academic freedom is protected and why he thinks this Government should be—as the academics have called it—such a control-freak Government eroding universities’ independence and stifling their academic freedom? 
The Minister should give one example of a university in New Zealand that his Government has had serious problems with in terms of the spending of public money. He knows perfectly well when he twists words and says that my argument is spurious because universities have always been Crown entities that the Government is redefining the meaning of Crown entities in terms of Government control. That is what this legislation is about. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: No no it doesn’t. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: The Minister should take a call instead of sitting there shaking his head and repeating the word “No”. The universities are not resisting public accountability. There is already existing legislation that requires them to be publicly accountable. The fact that some polytechnics have got away with not being accountable is the fault of this Government’s own tertiary education— 
Jill Pettis 
: Don’t be ridiculous. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: That member can take a call too instead of shrieking like a gooseberry. This Government’s Tertiary Education Commission does not do its job. It goes in and audits those institutions and gives them a clear bill of health and it is not until the Opposition parties raise concerns about the spending of public money that it is revealed that they need to be brought under greater control. But not one of those issues has involved a university. The Minister should get up and instead of arguing about the status quo and Crown entities explain why he thinks it is necessary in New Zealand—in a Western liberal democracy—to pass legislation that seriously undermines the autonomy and academic freedom of universities. 
Can the Minister assure us for instance that he will not create a Minister responsible for tertiary institutions? Will we see a Minister responsible for tertiary institutions? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: We’ve got one already. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: We already have one. And who is that? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Steve Maharey. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: I thought he was responsible for tertiary education and not a Minister for universities. Is that what he already thinks he is? That is interesting. Will university council members be able to be dismissed for just cause? Can the Minister assure us that that will not happen too? I challenge the Minister to take a call and answer that query. 
What will happen to the private funding of universities when they come under the scrutiny of the Government if it feels that they are not promoting Government policy? Those are all fears the vice-chancellors have expressed in the negotiations they have tried to have with the Government—negotiations that have severely broken down. How will borrowing from universities be affected by this legislation? What effect will it have? Will the Minister for tertiary institutions have the right to conduct inquiries into the academic affairs of universities? Will research and papers produced by universities come under the proposed Public Records Bill? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: What? 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: That is what the Vice-Chancellors Committee has asserted. Perhaps the Minister can stand up and explain why that will not happen. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: They’re talking codswallop. They’re away with the fairies. 
DEBORAH CODDINGTON 
: Of course it is a nonsense but will they? I challenge the Minister.