Robertson Grant: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Robertson Grant: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 01 August 2012. Volume:682;Page:4147. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
2. 
GRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader—Labour) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his statement in relation to Hon John Banks “The law may be very loose as I’ve said before and the law may well need reforming and that’s something we’ll consider in due course but I’m comfortable with what he’s done”? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes. 
Grant Robertson 
: In establishing that he was comfortable with what Mr Banks had done did he ask Mr Banks whether he was aware that he had received substantial donations from SkyCity and Kim Dotcom; if not why not? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The Prime Minister accepted Mr Banks’ assurances. 
Grant Robertson 
: Why is he comfortable to have a Minister in his administration whom editorial writers in both the  
Dominion Post  
and the  
New Zealand Herald  
have said should be stood down and whom the police have established directly solicited and received donations which he later claimed to be anonymous? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The test is whether the police decided to advance a prosecution and they did not. Secondly the Minister retains the confidence of the Prime Minister. In fact there is a history of Ministers who have actually been convicted of crimes retaining the confidence of the Prime Minister such as the Hon Trevor Mallard. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Point of order the Hon—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! Members clearly heard a point of order called and know they cannot interject under a point of order. I call the Hon Trevor Mallard. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: That member knows that fighting is not a crime under the— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I am on my feet and this will desist. And that member knows that that was not a point of order. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I am on my feet and if the member interjects like that any further he will not have the chance to interject further this afternoon. 
Grant Robertson 
: With reference to the Minister’s last answer is the standard he is now setting for participation as a Minister in his administration that lying is OK so long as you can get away with it? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: No the standard is that the Minister retains the confidence of the Prime Minister. In this case he does. 
Grant Robertson 
: Will he support the introduction of a bill that tightens up the laws on local electoral donations including by making them consistent with the obligations on candidates in general elections? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: Yes the Government would be likely to support such a law. It seems to make sense that the disclosure laws for local government political donations would be similar to those for central government political donations. 
Grant Robertson 
: Point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Point of order Grant Robertson. 
Grant Robertson 
: Mr Speaker—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! A point of order has been called. 
Grant Robertson 
: I seek leave to introduce and set down for first reading the Local Electoral (Enhancement of Transparency) Amendment Bill which makes the donation regime for local government consistent with that for general elections. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Grant Robertson 
: Can the Minister confirm that he retains confidence in Ministers who lie? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: It is not the intent of this Government to lower itself to the standards of the previous Government where regular recklessness with the truth was almost a qualification to be a Minister. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does the Prime Minister believe that John Banks told reporter David Fisher the whole truth when Mr Banks said that he “kept the finances of the mayoral campaign at arm’s length.” given that the police found that Mr Banks had met with the chief executive officer of Skycity and received an envelope containing a $15000 cheque and that Mr Banks had personally solicited other donations from people like Kim Dotcom? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Before I call the Minister to answer this there are of course issues of ministerial responsibility here. The Prime Minister is not responsible for what another Minister might say. I have not ruled the question out but I just alert members that that is the case. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The member can speculate about who said what to whom when. The fact is the police made a decision not to proceed with the prosecution and the Minister retains the confidence of the Prime Minister. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Why does the Minister retain the confidence of the Prime Minister when John Banks as a Minister said “I kept the finances of the mayoral campaign at arm’s length.” and the police found that that was manifestly not true and that as a mayoral candidate he sought and received donations personally? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The Prime Minister takes the view that the Minister has conducted his role as a Minister to a standard that maintains the confidence of the Prime Minister. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That will be sufficient. I have already alerted that member that he is skating on thin ice. That kind of interjection is unacceptable. That is the last one. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I warn the member. This had better— 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Sit down Trevor. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That member will sit down. I am fast losing patience because the member knows he has breached the Standing Orders of this House several times this afternoon and I will not tolerate it any further. If he wishes to call a point of order he may. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is it now the ethical standard of the Key-Banks Government that Ministers can tell reporters statements that are manifestly untrue and that are found to be untrue by the New Zealand Police and yet retain their jobs? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: As the member will be aware the police conducted whatever investigation they conduct and made a decision not to proceed. The Minister retains the confidence of the Prime Minister. I think pretty much everyone agrees that the law as it applies to central and local government political donations should probably be better aligned. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was as to the ethical standard as referred to in the  
Cabinet Manual 
 of the Key-Banks Government and I have not heard an answer with regard to the ethics in the answer that the Minister gave. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question sought an opinion in that regard and I think the Minister on behalf of the Prime Minister gave a pretty clear answer in relation to compliance with the law and I cannot require Ministers to give any particular answers when their opinions are sought. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I appreciate that but this was a question not a point of law. It was about ethical standards and the reason why that is relevant is because of the  
Cabinet Manual 
. The Prime Minister needs to have confidence in his Ministers that they are sticking to the  
Cabinet Manual 
 which speaks of ethical standards and the Minister did not address that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! In fairness the Minister on behalf of the Prime Minister has made it very clear that the member in question—the other Minister in question—retains the confidence of the Prime Minister. He has identified that the standard that is important is that the law has not been breached. If that is the standard in relation to the question the member asked I cannot ask the Minister to identify any further standards. That was the answer the Minister gave. 
Denise Roche 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave for the member’s bill the Local Electoral (Finance) Amendment Bill to be introduced forthwith and for it to be set down for first reading as members’ order of the day No. 1 on the next members’ day. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that course of action. I take it is a different piece of legislation? 
Denise Roche 
: It is indeed. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection.