Lees-Galloway Iain: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Lees-Galloway Iain: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 28 November 2012. Volume:686;Page:6856. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
8. 
IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour—Palmerston North) 
 to the  
Minister of Defence 
: Has he read all the Defence Force reports regarding the accident involving a RNZAF Iroquois on ANZAC Day 2010; if so what action has he taken? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Defence) 
: 
 I have read the report of the court of inquiry the accident analysis report and update reports. I have made it clear to the Air Force that I expect all the recommendations of the court of inquiry to be implemented. I have ordered an independent inquiry into Air Force progress in implementing those recommendations. As the Minister of State Services I have ordered a further inquiry into how civilian agencies dealt with their responsibilities for investigating the crash and whether this process is fit for purpose. 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: Does the accident analysis report indicate that the decision not to pre-position aircraft on the day before Anzac Day was made to avoid accommodation costs of around $600? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: The accident analysis report informs the court of inquiry and the court of inquiry is very clear about what the causes of the crash were. Budgetary considerations were not listed as a cause of the Anzac Day crash. 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was about the content of the accident analysis report not the court of inquiry report. I would appreciate it if the Minister could answer regarding the content of that report not another report. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Indeed the member did ask about that. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: What the report says is that the decision not to pre-position an aircraft was not a cause of the accident regardless of what factors might have informed that decision not to pre-position the aircraft. There were things like whether it could be completed within the available crewing rosters. There was also the factor that the Air Force was in discussion with Wellington airport and could not fly down there after dark. 
Hon David Parker 
: Did the report say that? What did the report say? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: So the report was very clear that that budgetary factor was not a cause of the crash. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was whether he has read the accident analysis report and if so does it indicate that the decision not to pre-position aircraft on the day before Anzac Day was made to avoid accommodation costs of around $600. I listened very carefully to that answer and I could not tell whether it was a yes or a no. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The interesting point that has been raised in this point of order is the question did not ask whether the decision not to position an aircraft the night before or the day before caused the accident; the question asked whether the decision was made to avoid a certain cost. In answering the Minister referred to the elements of the report that describe causes of the accident but did not actually cover the specific point the member’s question focused on. And it was a very straightforward question. I would ask the Minister to answer that question. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not going to take time off my colleague who is answering perfectly adequately but I would ask you to have a look at the  
Hansard 
 of the answer that he gave because it would be my contention that he did answer that question by making it very clear that in the decision to not pre-position there were no factors other than those he mentioned in his answer. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not think the House needs to take more time on this. I will certainly check in case I am wrong here. If I am wrong no harm is done. If I am wrong the Minister can simply point out where I have been wrong—in his further answer—when I have asked him to answer that particular issue raised in the question because the question was a very straight question. If I am wrong the Minister is most at liberty to point out that I am wrong—I have got no problem with that—and that will save a lot of time. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Well there are two parts to the question. To the first part yes. 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: Does the accident analysis report indicate that a decision was made not to pre-position the aircraft in order to avoid accommodation costs of around $600? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: The report indicates there were a number of considerations and factors taken into account. That was one of a number the key point being that it was not a cause of the crash. I urge the member to focus on the cause of the crash rather than try to cause a cheap beat-up out of this. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is it not a fact that the Air Force internal accident analysis says as follows: “the need to minimise accommodation costs incurred by 3 Squadron due to pressure on the accommodation budget was recognised and contributed to the … decision [not to fly the day before].” and further it found there were no instructor manuals or guides because of resourcing issues; if that is a fact when are he and the Prime Minister going to apologise to those three families for their inhuman cost-cutting exercise in the Air Force? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Well we deal in facts and what I can say is that the person in charge of the inquiry— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why don’t you resign? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: This is a direct quote and it is from the court of inquiry. It says: “When considering the report I could not help thinking that the genesis of this accident goes back some 10 years when changes to RNZAF command and control”— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I gave him two direct quotes from the report and I asked him to confirm whether they were in fact from the report. Why does he not answer the question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member’s question went a little beyond that. The Minister is in my view answering the question in a way he is entitled to. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: In answer to the member’s question the quote from the person in charge of the inquiry is that “When considering the report I could not help thinking that the genesis of this accident goes back some 10 years when changes to RNZAF command and control were made in an attempt to make our operations more efficient and cost effective.” So it was under that Labour Party Government’s watch. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: Is he aware that the operational order for Anzac Day fly-pasts ordered that No. 3 Squadron pre-position aircraft on the day before Anzac Day in order to mitigate both noise abatement regulations and the risk of poor weather and does he know why this order was not followed? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Well the member cannot have it both ways. He is trying to make out— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The question was a reasonable question. There is no expectation that the Minister would necessarily know the answer to it because it is clearly an operational issue who gives orders. But it does not allow that kind of answer. It was a reasonable question but the Minister may not in fact have that information. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: The fact is that the pre-positioning or lack of in regard to those aircraft was not a cause of the accident and the court of inquiry is very clear about that. 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: Point of order. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think I can assist. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! The question simply asked whether the Minister could tell the House who gave— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: No “Is he aware …”. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: —is he aware of—the order the alleged order I must stress for the aircraft to be pre-positioned the day before. That is all that the question is asking. The Minister may or may not know but it would not be unreasonable for the Minister—unless it is not in the public interest—to actually answer it. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: I do not agree with the assertion that he is putting to the House and I would have to check that fact because you know I am not too certain that he has got his facts correct. 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: Is he aware that the accident analysis report also indicates that training manuals for the use of night-vision equipment and night flying were not current at the time of the accident because resources had not been allocated to keeping those materials up to date and does he think that contributed to the accident? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: I refer that member to the court of inquiry report which is informed by the accident analysis report which lists quite clearly the causes of the accident. Basically they were around culture a lack of adherence to the rules and lack of oversight. It is very clear. 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My questions—all of them—have been about the accident analysis report— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I am on my feet. I have assisted the member with answers where he has got good grounds but he may recollect that the last part of that question asked the Minister whether he thought those matters contributed to the accident. The Minister in his answer covered that issue very clearly. 
Iain Lees-Galloway 
: When will the Minister take responsibility for the fact that it is his Government’s policy to cut costs and cut corners that has put pressure on Defence Force personnel compromised the safety of those personnel and contributed to the accident that occurred on Anzac Day 2010? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Well I would just refer the member to this fact: Labour’s spending on pilot training—the Labour Government’s spending—was cut from $66 million in 1999 to $45 million in 2008. There you go. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Order! 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Both sides both National and Labour will comply with the rules of this House. When a point of order is called they will cease that kind of interjection. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: The Minister was asked to account for actions or inactions during his time or his Government’s time. He cannot rise to his feet and begin with a diatribe about the former Government. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question contained a lot of statement of the member’s views as to what had happened. The Minister is absolutely at liberty when asked that kind of question to express his views in return. On the straightforward questions asked previously I made sure the Minister answered them. On questions like that last one the Minister has got some licence in his answer. The Hon Dr Jonathan Coleman is welcome to give further answer. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Sure. Look I would just refer to my previous quote from that report. The person in charge of the court of inquiry says that “When considering the report I could not help thinking that the genesis of this accident goes back some 10 years”—when Labour was in charge—“when changes to RNZAF command and control were made in an attempt to make our operations more efficient and cost effective.” So those changes happened on your Government’s watch. I am afraid that is the truth.