King Annette: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeKing Annette: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 04 November 2014. Volume:701;Page:478. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.Hon ANNETTE KING (Acting Deputy Leader—Labour)to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement “Well if we were selling Housing New Zealand the corporation or 25 percent or 49 percent yes that would be an asset sale”?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister):Yes.Hon Annette King: Why does he think that selling House New Zealand bureaucracy would be an asset sale but selling up to 22000 of its houses worth around $5 billion would not be an asset sale?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly the member is making it up. I have never said that we are going to sell that many houses; I am simply making the point that if Housing New Zealand sells some homes as it did under the previous Labour Government—about a thousand of them—then I do not class that to be an asset sale.Hon Annette King: In light of that answer will there be more houses built or bought by the Government to replace the number of State houses sold under the great State house sell-off?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: What I can guarantee is that there will be more people accommodated under income-related rents and therefore having accessibility to affordable homes. In the end the real point here is that we want to see more New Zealanders getting access to that very low-cost level of housing and it is much more sensible to ask community housing providers and others with access to income-related rents to do that than simply for Housing New Zealand to buy them.Hon Annette King: In light of that answer does he stand by his statement that the fastest way of moving people out of poverty is to deliver more income-related rents; if so how is he going to get the houses to apply those subsidies without simply subsidising private landlords?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly the only people who can get income-related rents are community housing providers or Housing New Zealand. The Labour Party fundamentally knows so little about rents that it cannot even work out what a capital gains tax is going to do and therefore it cannot even work out who gets an income-related rent.Hon Annette King: What discussions have taken place with social housing providers in light of the Monte Cecilia Housing Trust an important provider saying yesterday: “The Government seems to be able to make announcements one day and then tell us ‘well we’ve not really done the detail’” the next day. Is that not what you would call a shambles for it?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I cannot tell you exactly what discussions have been held because I am not responsible for that but there are a wide range of community housing providers—I think there are about 30 in total actually. My understanding is that there have been—[Interruption] Thirty-two thank you. My understanding is that there have been quite wide-ranging discussions. But what is clear is that the Government’s intent in this area has been foreshadowed for quite some time. What we are endeavouring to do is to make sure that the social housing sector in New Zealand grows.Hon David Cunliffe: This is the worst ramble of the year.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well the worst ramble of the year is from the four wannabe leaders who cannot even turn up to Parliament.Hon Annette King: Does he agree with the Auckland Community Housing Providers Network that “Selling housing at a time of shortage makes no sense unless the funds from the sales are invested back so that there is a net increase in new social and affordable housing.”; if not why will he not commit to this?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Certainly if one was just solely selling a Housing New Zealand house and there was no other replacement in the form of a community housing provider or somebody else who could provide a house of course that would make no sense because the amount of houses available to low-income people would be by definition reducing. The Government’s whole plan here is to increase it. But just before the members opposite—Sue Moroney: No that doesn’t increase it. They’re just shuffled from one place to another.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well Sue Moroney should just be quiet for a second and listen to this important point. If members opposite want to get all excited about selling things then maybe the member should remember that she was part of a Government that sold Southern Hydro—Hon Phil Goff: Come on!Rt Hon JOHN KEY: —that is right Phil—for $1.6 billion. It was 16 percent of the assets of Meridian Energy.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The answer has now moved well past the question that was asked.Hon Annette King: When the Prime Minister said a moment ago that their policy was very clear why did he not make it clear during the election campaign that they intended to sell—Hon Members: We did.Hon Annette King: No no. The Prime Minister said yesterday that he could not make it clear because no one wanted to talk about housing. So why did he not tell the public that he intended to sell a significant chunk of State houses some of them to property speculators?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: A few things. Firstly as I pointed out yesterday the Labour Party was fixated with talking about everything other than policy and we know where that took them. Secondly interestingly enough this is a story from 26 February 2014 and it is titled “English talks up big state housing reform”. That was by the way quite a few months before the election. Thirdly I have had a flick through the Labour Party election manifesto and I never saw any part of its manifesto talking about selling 16 percent of the assets of Meridian—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I thank the Prime Minister but that is not his responsibility.Hon Annette King: Is the Prime Minister saying that in the numerous public meetings he held the four leaders’ debates the whistle-stop tours and the hundreds of opportunities for selfies he never had even a nanosecond to tell those he met that he intended to flog off billions of dollars of State houses because he thought that the Labour Party was busy talking about something else?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The point I was making was first it was in our policy; second the Minister of Finance had given a speech at the start of the year on it; and third my main point was that the Leader of the Opposition did not want to talk about it and neither did anyone else. They wanted to talk about every other little trumped-up scandal but they did not want to talk about policy. That is why by the way Labour polled the worst result in living history of the Labour Party for 92 years. So if you want to go and have a re-run of the election campaign and talk about policy you might do better—but oops you do not have a leader to do that.Hon Annette King: I seek leave—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have not called the member yet.Hon Annette King: I seek leave to table the 2002 election result when the National Party got—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have heard enough and there is no need to do it.Kevin Hague: Does the Prime Minister guarantee that all proceeds from the sale of State houses will be used for social housing purposes?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No decisions have been made yet on what the proceeds will go to but what I can guarantee the member is that as a result of this policy more poor and vulnerable New Zealanders will have an affordable roof over their heads. I would have thought that if the member wanted to stop playing politics and start caring about the poor people he would come over and support the National Government.Kevin Hague: Well if it is not resolved what the proceeds will be used for what else might they be used for besides social housing purposes?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: As I said that decision has not been made. In the fullness of time it will be and we will be happy to stand on the policy and the record of this Government. But what I do know is that as a result of this policy more New Zealand families more vulnerable families will have an affordable roof over their heads. I define that as a success.