Roy Heather: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Roy Heather: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:613;Page:9715] 
12.  
HEATHER ROY (ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Did the Ministry of Health have any legal liability for the $74146.96 exclusive of GST tax bill owed on the koha payments made by Te Whare Whakapikiora o te Rangimarie Trust to voluntary staff; if not why did the ministry pay the tax bill for a health trust whose contract it had not renewed? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Associate Minister of Health)  
on behalf of the  
Minister of Health:  
No. The Minister was advised that the responsible manager with appropriate financial delegation decided to pay the outstanding tax liability of the trust directly to the Crown because had the trust been aware of the tax liability at the time the contract commenced in 1995 the contract could have reflected the full costs of providing the service. It was not until 2000 that the Inland Revenue Department ruled that tax was liable on the koha payments to voluntary workers and required the backdated amount to be paid. 
Heather Roy 
: Did the Deputy Director-General of Maori Health Ria Earp have the appropriate financial delegation to make a payment of this amount when there was no contractual obligation to do so; if so who provided Ms Earp with the authority to make such a discretionary or ex gratia payment? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: My understanding is that she had that appropriate delegation and that the Inland Revenue Department made the demand on the Ministry of Health for the outstanding debts. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister did not answer the other part of the question about who gave the delegated authority. I think that is the key part of that question. Perhaps he would like an opportunity to answer it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I heard the member specifically ask whether she had the delegated authority and the Minister gave an absolutely straight answer to that. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will not relitigate this particular point. 
Rodney Hide 
: I perfectly understand that. I know you would not allow that and I would not test your patience. On this side we are a bit confused because the two answers appear to be contradictory. On the one hand the Minister said that there was no contractual obligation to pay the amount; on the other hand he said the Inland Revenue Department had presented the bill to the Ministry of Health. It does make it problematic for us in our next supplementary question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That may well be but I am not here to judge the quality of the question or the answer. It was addressed. 
Dr Lynda Scott 
: What is the difference between a koha payment to a voluntary worker and a salary and can the Minister assure this House that the practice of making koha payments to voluntary workers has been stopped; if not why not? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: My understanding is that the Inland Revenue Department made a judgment on the situation with regard to koha payments to voluntary workers. My understanding also is that no further direct payments are being made from the Ministry of Health to the Inland Revenue Department for such situations. 
Heather Roy 
: Is it policy for the Ministry of Health to pay any outstanding tax bills for non-government health providers or if this was a special case what was special about it? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: When the Ministry of Health took over responsibility for this matter in December 2000 it indicated to the trust that its contract might be terminated. Therefore the Inland Revenue Department was uncertain about where it should receive payment for the outstanding debts. That is why it went to the Ministry of Health. 
Heather Roy 
: What health outcomes did the $688000 paid to Te Whare Whakapikiora o te Rangimarie Trust for cultural and spiritual healing achieve and is the Minister prepared to tell this House that the health outcomes for Maori were better than if the same amount had been given to Hastings Hospital? 
Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR 
: That is a fairly wide question but I am happy to say that this Government is committed to providing funding for Maori health providers. I quote Mr English the former member of the National Party: “Maori health providers contribute the social and cultural capital that make services appropriate.” He went on to say: “As you know real partnership is about more than just sitting down and talking to people. For Government it means doing something hard handing over power and thereby empowering.” This Government commits to that positive statement. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Will the member pleased be seated when I am on my feet. The Minister went too far with that particular quote and Mr English is still a member of this Parliament. Is that what Mr Hide’s point of order was about? 
Rodney Hide 
: Yes it was. It was also to make a second point that the question was about health outcomes not about what Bill English said. We have still not had any statement about the health outcomes achieved by that trust. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question was addressed.