Hayes JoJOANNE HAYES (National): I have been sitting here listening to the discussion that has been happening in this Committee and I can tell you that not all children are safe returning to their whānau. Not all children are safe. Not all children are safe from being sexually abused again if they are returned to the very family that did it to them in the first place. To look at that particular issue—that all whānau are safe and all and all and all—which was brought up just before is looking through rose-tinted glasses. Well they are not. Not all whānau are safe.Let us look at this bill. We have gone all over the place. We have drawn a long bow in the discussions that have happened in this Chamber today to do with this bill and it is very clear—the Minister for Social Development is very very clear—that this bill is child-centred. It is about making sure that young people who end up coming into the system are protected and that they actually have a say in the decisions about their future. If they do not want to return to their family then who are we to say: You will go back to your whānau because we think it's the right thing to do." Well I am sorry that is not what this bill is about. This bill is about respecting young people and their choice. That is what this bill is all about.Talking about how social workers must know where to place young people when they come—with the whānau the hapū the iwi—well hey sometimes young people may not wish to even know that. We are sitting in this room we are making judgments on behalf those young people and this is not what this bill is about. We had four young people up in the gallery before we rose for dinner. They were the advisers to the Minister. Every time the Minister spoke I looked at their faces and I looked at their faces when other members stood up to speak about them about doing things for them. This was their decision. They have been part and parcel of this bill from whoa to go so who are we to get in and say: "Oh no we think it should be this. We think it should be that." "Where practicable" "where possible" "should"—yes those are words that we need to have in this bill. "Where practicable"—we have to have those in the bill because it gives options. It gives an option.I stand here and I listen to all the kōrero that is going on about how yes we want young people young children to go to safe and warm secure homes. But then we start bringing in all the housing issues. This is about young people and what they want their decisions—to make sure their voices are heard—and we keep forgetting about that. I sit and I am listening and we keep forgetting about it. We keep saying: "Well actually this is what is good for you. This is what is good for you because we reckon it should be." Well no you are very very wrong there—you are very wrong. We should respect—respect—the decisions of these young people. They helped to get this bill here. They were integral in actually appointing the CEO of the Ministry for Vulnerable Children Oranga Tamariki. They have had a lot of say in this and we must respect that. That is what this bill is all about. I do not want to sit and listen to any more of that rubbish when it comes out.I know. I have a family member who had her two children taken off her because she would not listen to us—her family—or to the police who said: "Be careful about that partner that you choose who has just got out of jail." He has been in jail because he has had violent tendencies he has been arrested for a number of violent actions towards children and towards women—and what did she do? She gave her children up for him. How fair is that on those two little girls? So when I see this—those little girls needed protection and we looked after those little girls. We looked after them but in saying that we were not the only ones. We were not the only ones whom these young girls could have gone to. There were so many other girls. These girls were not Māori—they were not Māori. When this happened the family set up and said: "We would like to have the children if it suits—if it works out." In this bill—it actually has it in the bill. If you read in the bill in clause 13(2)(i) that is where it is. So there is the choice. Thank you."