Alexander Marc: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Alexander Marc: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:613;Page:10060] 
6.  
MARC ALEXANDER (United Future) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Is he satisfied with the management of prisons in New Zealand; if so why? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 Generally yes. The department’s primary job is to keep the public safe and it has consistently performed well compared with other jurisdictions. 
Marc Alexander 
: Will the Minister review the security classification system in light of the recent escapes of Andrew Rogers a murderer and child sex offender and Grant Simon a brutal serial rapist who is still at large after 11 days both of whom were on minimum security work programmes outside their State-managed prisons; if not why not? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Investigations are under way into both those circumstances. The security classification and the conditions surrounding the fact that at least one of those persons walked away are part of those investigations. 
Martin Gallagher 
: How do New Zealand’s prisons compare internationally? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Very well indeed. The total inmate cost per day is lower than in Australia England Wales and Canada. New Zealand fares very favourably on measures such as staff-to-inmate ratios and the department’s integrated offender management system is considered to be a world leader. Prison managers are making very good progress and they should be congratulated on that. 
Ron Mark 
: Does the Minister have confidence in and is he happy with the management of the Auckland remand prison; if so what lessons does he feel the Department of Corrections could take from the success of that operation? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As the member knows the issue of private prisons is now under consideration by the select committee. Of course it is Government policy to have that private prison returned to the public prison system. We consider the incarceration of people is duly the responsibility of the State. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I specifically asked the Minister whether he has confidence in and is happy with the management of that prison. I did not ask him about the Government’s proposals about bills that may be before the House or the ideology behind that. I specifically asked whether he had confidence in and was happy with that prison. I would like him to answer the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will ask him to comment a little further. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I have not seen any issues about the management of the prison but I have seen some figures being used by Business Roundtable and others that do not compare apples with apples. If we look at the public prison system in New Zealand and compare its management of remand prisons with private prisons we see that the public prison service is on average $7000 cheaper than the private prison. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Is the Minister aware of some of the very serious allegations made against Australasian correctional management in Australia and notwithstanding the considerable advances made by them in things like access to mental health services and relationships with local iwi is he of the opinion that their activities here in Aotearoa are in the nature of a loss-leader? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister is not responsible for Australian prisons but he can answer the question in relation to his responsibility. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I have seen a number of comparisons. I think it is fair to say that some good progress has been made in that area particularly as the member rightly says in relation to iwi relationships—something that is now being considered within the public prison system. But I think it is fair to say as I said before that the incarceration of people in New Zealand should be the responsibility of the State not of private companies trying to make money out of it. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why does the Government maintain its policy to cancel the private prison in Auckland when even the Minister’s own chief executive has advised a parliamentary select committee that the private prison is cheaper than the public prison by several thousand dollars; and if he does not want prisoners to be in the custody of the private sector why then have the police and the prison service put out the custody and transportation of prisoners to the private sector? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Well there are actually three questions there. Firstly the Government makes the decision— 
Opposition Members 
: Answer the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister does have the opportunity to answer. He had not got many more than two words into his answer. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: There were three questions there and I am happy to answer them all. Firstly the Government makes the decisions not officials. Secondly the member’s figures are not right. Thirdly contracting out escort services is not at all comparable with the management of private prisons. 
Stephen Franks 
: Did he fail to answer Mr Ron Mark’s question about his opinion of Auckland remand prison management because he has made sure that he has never accepted any of its repeated invitations to visit in case it might upset his prejudiced determination to close the prison and it is easier to do that in ignorance? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: No. 
Marc Alexander 
: Why is the Government happy to allow the Department of Corrections to tender out to private companies for the transportation of prisoners and provision for those on parole yet through the Corrections Bill wants to stop them from running prisons when surely if they are good enough to keep prisoners secure while they are out in public they can manage to keep them safely behind the stone walls and bars of a prison? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The Government considers the two things not comparable at all. For example the police used to be sitting in cars and vans monitoring speed cameras. They do not do it any more because we think they should be doing other things. Similarly we think corrections officers should be doing other things than sitting in vans going up and down between courts and prisons. 
Marc Alexander 
: Can the Minister confirm that although the privately run Auckland remand prison has achieved the New Zealand quality health accreditation the public prisons have failed to do so and instead require exemptions; and does that not make it even more untenable for the Government to squash private prisons under the Corrections Bill? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: No I cannot confirm that.