Webb Duncan; Bayly AndrewDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Kia orana Madam Chair and kia orana Mr Bayly. Congratulations on getting this bill to this stage. Look the provision I'm interested in is the one relating to refugees which is new section 8A. Just a couple of things: as I understand it—and I'd just really like confirmation—what this means is that the law as it stands will essentially continue for refugees; it will be 10 years at most. It may not be something you're able to answer because it relates to the Minister's Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) because—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! Just keep the Speaker out of the debate.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: The member may not be able to answer this and I'm sure the Chair simply will not but the question is that the Minister's SOP reproduces the new section 8A in clause 5 and I'm just simply not clear what the change is unless it's simply a comprehensive rewrite. My question is simply whether there are any changes in the SOP to section 8A or whether that's simply a reproduction of 8A. That's simply my question because I can't seem to see any substantive changes or whether the SOP really is just a rewrite of pretty much the entire bill. So perhaps you can help me there.ANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): It's good to have professors of law involved in these processes isn't it? Effectively the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) is a rewrite of the bill. The issue just to be clear around the refugees is—and I've talked about before—effectively if you come here and you're 55 and older as a refugee you only have to comply with the 10-year rule but if you're here for longer you will have to comply for a longer period of time. But there's that stop point of saying you do not have to comply with these regulations if you're here aged 55 or over.Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): So just to be clear Mr Bayly there is never going to be a greater than 10-year period—is that essentially what you were saying there? Because as I read 8A—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): The Speaker?Dr DUNCAN WEBB: The member—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! Is the member suggesting that the Speaker is saying it?Dr DUNCAN WEBB: No. Is that what the member is saying?CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Thank you.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Is that what the member is saying? Point of order Madam Chair. If I may there has been guidance around the use of the pronoun you" particularly when it's a flowing conversation and I might say that given the direction around committee stage and the encouragement to have a bit of a Q and A if I may observe it's very hard to have a free flowing Q and A—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): OK. Thank you. I thank the member for the point of order and the rule of thumb I use is that if the word "you" can be replaced with "one" that is now permissible in the House. But if the word "you" is directed to a member then I take it as if it is being directed at the Speaker and involving the Speaker in the debate. Does the member wish to continue his speech?Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Thank you Madam Chair. That's helpful. So I'm just really asking the member to clarify that anyone who is in the country for a period of greater than 10 years as a refugee will automatically qualify when they hit their 65th birthday.ANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): Thank you. So maybe I'll just read this from the commentary on the bill to you: "Our amendment would retain the current 10 year residence requirement for a refugee or protected person who becomes a resident at age 55 or higher". The amendment would ensure that the total residence requirement for a refugee is limited to no more than the difference between the date the person first becomes resident in New Zealand and the date on which they turn 65. So hopefully that will clear it up."