3. Question No. 3—Local GovernmentHon Dr NICK SMITH (National) to the Minister of Local GovernmentQuestion No. 3—Local Government3. Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National) to the Minister of Local Government: Does she still agree with the statement Labour will ensure that major decisions about local democracy involve full participation of the local population from the outset"; if so is she satisfied that the public consultation process on the Local Electoral (Māori Wards and Māori Constituencies) Amendment Bill is consistent with that statement?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): Thank you Mr Speaker. Yes I do and can I reiterate to the member that the reason for the truncated process is that this is a short-term fix so changes can be made in time for the 2022 local body elections. Locally elected representatives will be able to make the decision.Hon Dr Nick Smith: What is her response to the statements in the New Zealand Herald today on her bill that it is the worst way to make law and that "It reeks of arrogance."?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I disagree with that particular statement but I see what the member is doing with his dog whistle. This issue has been around for a very long time and in fact—SPEAKER: Order! Order! I'll ask the member to resume her seat. I just want to think very carefully about the use of the term "dog whistle" within the House. I think there are implications that flow from that which are not parliamentary. It's something that I want to consider carefully and in the interim I'll ask her not to use that term until I've thought about it and taken advice.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: I disagree with that particular statement. This issue has been around for a very long time. Many communities have had very thorough conversations about the merits of having Māori wards within their council. The principle of democracy in terms of one person one vote will still apply. The way in which Māori wards will be determined in so far as the formula will still remain the same. What we're trying to achieve is the ability to remove the discriminatory barrier—through a truncated process albeit—in time for the 2022 local body elections.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Does calling for submissions one day and requiring they be submitted by 5 p.m. the next meet the legal consultation requirements of the Local Government Act applying to councils?SPEAKER: Order! Order! The timing of the select committee submissions is not the Minister's responsibility.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Speaking to that point of order.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Speaking to the point of order.SPEAKER: Which one? Dr Nick Smith.Hon Dr Nick Smith: My question was not specifically to the issue of the timetable that the Māori Affairs Committee has set; it was a question quite specifically—because what we have is the Government putting a requirement on councils—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. The timing the member used was exactly that of the select committee. It was not a general consultation question that is before the House; it is a bill. Michael Woodhouse.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Point of order.Hon Michael Woodhouse: So speaking to that point—SPEAKER: Oh sorry—Hon Michael Woodhouse: Away you go—away you go Gerry.Hon Gerry Brownlee: It's an interesting ruling but it is the Minister who sets the report-back date for the bill effectively setting the timetable.SPEAKER: Well the member has been here for a very long time. He knows that when the House votes it's not the Minister; it's the House.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Speaking to that point of order Mr Speaker—which was going to be my original one—that is true and this Parliament decides ultimately on the report-back date. But the request and the motion was put by the very Minister who is now being questioned so surely that makes Dr Smith's question in order.SPEAKER: Well I can understand exactly what the member means but it is in the end because this House has passed a motion no longer a matter for which the Minister has responsibility.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Speaking to that point—I think this is an important point Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: It's the House's responsibility.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Absolutely it is. Dr Smith's question was not about the House's decision; it was about the Minister's request to the House by virtue of her motion.SPEAKER: I don't think it was. The member will just repeat the last bit of his question.Hon Dr Nick Smith: The last part of my question was whether such an action—calling submissions one day and requiring they be lodged the next—meets the legal consultation requirements of the Local Government Act. It's a question about the Act for which the Minister's responsible.SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume his seat. Having listened to that I'm even more certain about my ruling. Are there further supplementaries?Hon Dr Nick Smith: Why has she repeatedly stated and I quote her "It is unfair that 5 percent of people can overturn a decision of the council." when the true position is that the 5 percent of people simply triggers a referendum and the decision rests with 50 percent of the people?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Because that provision does not apply to general wards or constituencies. It is inconsistent it is discriminatory and many councils as well as the Race Relations Commissioner have identified that.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Does she agree with the advice of her departmental officials endorsed by the Ministry of Justice that with electoral law changes there is an additional obligation on Government to publicly consult?Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: As I have explained previously this is a short-term fix. Policy development for an enduring solution will be undertaken later in 2021. This is the second stage. This work will consider possible consultation requirements and/or review and appeal processes and any role for the Local Government Commission in the process for establishing Māori wards and constituencies. What we are trying to achieve with the bill before the Māori Affairs Committee is a short-term fix to enable those councils who choose to make the decision to have Māori wards to be able to do so in time for the 2022 election.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Point of order Mr Speaker. My question was very specific about the advice of officials as to whether there was an extra obligation to consult on electoral law changes. That was not addressed by the Minister.SPEAKER: Well I think the Minister can answer that question probably with one word.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Sorry no I don't do one-words.SPEAKER: It's really a yes/no question. I know you're not meant to say that.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Yeah I know. I get that. But this is a serious issue—this is a serious issue and many people are very interested in how the Parliament will progress where the view of New Zealand is moving towards which is to try and find a way to ensure that our councils can include Māori participation based on the principle of democracy and the foundation of the Treaty of Waitangi. The fix that we are trying to achieve will remove a discriminatory barrier that does not apply to a general ward or constituency and will even the playing field. And I believe that it's important to highlight that as we work through to the second piece of work which I have already referred to and is in the legislative statement to ensure there is broad consultation on the long-term fix.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister has still not addressed my question and that was whether she agreed or not with the departmental advice supported by the Minister of Justice that there was an extra obligation—SPEAKER: OK OK. We've had that twice now and I do agree with the member. There was a very full explanation or a very full discussion from the Minister but there was a very narrow supplementary question. I mean it was far too long but it was very narrow in its essence. And I think the Minister should just address the very beginning.Hon Grant Robertson: Point of order Mr Speaker. Obviously I respect your ruling but to be clear that there have been many Speakers' rulings over many years that a yes or no answer is not required to be given in these circumstances in the House. I'm just confirming that is still the rule?SPEAKER: Yeah that is my—I'm not going to overrule that but I think it's pretty hard to address such a narrow question without a bit of a hint one way or the other as to that question. Before I sit down I just want to say to the Hon Kris Faafoi that as with the dog whistle comment suggesting that members opposite are scratching itches is likely to lead to disorder and I'd ask him to refrain from doing that. I think there are some implications which flow from that which are certainly not parliamentary.Chris Bishop: Point of order.SPEAKER: Well hang on; I've ruled on this. I've asked the Minister to reply. We'll have that and if the member has another one we'll deal with it afterwards.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Yes I agree that electoral law matters require thorough consultation which is why I referred to the second-stage process which is looking for the longer-term fix for Māori wards and constituencies where there will be a thorough consultation period.Chris Bishop: Point of order. Just in the exchange just then I think you made a reference to the Hon Nick Smith's supplementary being too long and I just want to query that and what you thought was too long about that supplementary because Dr Smith was speaking deliberately and slowly but the supplementary was no longer than any other supplementary for the last 10 years.SPEAKER: Well that may be a fair point but I think it's fair to say that the relative length of it and the time that it took tended to be a factor in the lack of focus on the very core thing which was in about the first three words.Hon Marama Davidson: Can the Minister confirm that the purpose of the requested select committee report-back date and the shortened legislative time frame is to uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi by allowing territorial authorities to decide on Māori wards for the 2022 local elections in the exact same—SPEAKER: Order! Now this member has asked a supplementary that was far too long.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA: Yes and can I thank the Green Party for their continued advocacy on te Tiriti o Waitangi and inclusive participation in local government."