6. Question No. 6—TransportHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of TransportQuestion No. 6—Transport6. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by all his statements policies and actions?Hon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Transport): Yes in the context they were said and done.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he stand by his statement this morning in select committee that New Zealand had over-invested in roads and motorways for decades?Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Yes actually because particularly in the last decade the former Government spent 40 percent of the transport budget on a handful of urban State highway projects that carried only 4 percent of vehicle journeys.Hon Paul Goldsmith: So does he think people crawling along a winding and dangerous single-lane road—from Katikati to Tauranga for example; a rapidly growing part of the country and a primary route between Auckland and Tauranga—will agree that we've over-invested in roads?Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There's no such single-lane road between Katikati and Tauranga.SPEAKER: Order! I'm not familiar with the area and I'm absolutely certain that the member is but I think that is the level of detail of question which if that member is correct the Minister will be absolutely capable of refuting as part of his answer.Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Like so many people in communities all up and down this country who saw their family and friends dying on rural and neglected roads they will feel frustrated that for nine years the former Government poured money into a handful of urban motorway projects and did nothing to improve roads like the one that the member raises.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he really think somebody crawling along Auckland's Southern Motorway on sections two lanes wide each way as they have been since the 1960s will agree with him that we've over-invested in motorways?Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well I think most Aucklanders—except for that member—understand that Auckland's long-term congestion problems can only be solved by building integrated modern transport systems that include not only motorways and roads but rapid transit public transport and walking and cycling and that is the policy of this Government.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he accept that public transport will work for some people for some of the trips they need to make but the vast majority of people still want to use cars on roads—Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Yes.Hon Paul Goldsmith: —for a host of good reasons?SPEAKER: Order! Order! We've got a slight sort of problem in that the bit at the end was not part of the question at all. We will go back to the Minister and ask the bit other than the addition which he interrupted.Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Yes but as the incredibly successful Northern Busway shows when you provide modern affordable convenient and reliable public transport for people even a small percentage of people will choose to leave the car at home at peak hour and take the rapid transit bus or the train and that allows the roads to move more freely for everybody else who has to drive.Jami-Lee Ross: How can Aucklanders have confidence in the Auckland rail network when KiwiRail consistently fails Aucklanders with multiple rail shutdowns and what's he doing about it?Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well I would point out to the member that yesterday's shutdown which happened during the morning peak was I'm advised caused by a contractor who snipped a cable inadvertently causing a signalling failure. I've spoken with the chief executive of KiwiRail and said that the Government expects KiwiRail will do everything possible to ensure trouble-free and reliable service on the Auckland public transport system. But what these two days show—the interruptions of travel during peak hour—is that no city particularly Auckland can function properly at peak hour without a reliable public transport system that allows thousands and thousands of people to get to and from work without having to clog up the motorways.Hon Paul Goldsmith: If he believes we've over-invested in roads is that why he and Julie Anne Genter are determined to build no new ones? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: We are the party of a balanced transport policy. We believe in both roads and motorways public transport walking and cycling. Cities all over the world are pursuing these policies except for the National Party who are stuck in the 1950s and believe that everybody can drive their car to work and no one needs to take public transport. I say to the member: those days are gone—move on.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Does he accept that the previous National Government invested considerable sums in public transport such as through the city rail loop in Auckland and many other examples as well as investing in roads and it's possible to do both? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I note that the former Government delayed the Auckland City Rail Link by six years before they were finally embarrassed into supporting the project. I challenge the member to name one other single bit of public transport infrastructure in Auckland during those nine years.Hon Grant Robertson: In light of that question about the City Rail Link can the Minister confirm that the original costings done under the previous Government for the City Rail Link had no ability to take account of cost escalation and that's now having to be dealt with by this Government? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Yes I'll say to the member that one of the big allocations or appropriations in Budget 2019 was making up for the fact that the former Government did not provide sufficient contingency or inflation-proofing for the biggest transport infrastructure project this country's ever seen.Hon Nikki Kaye: I seek leave to table some information obtained from the City Rail Link Ltd (CRLL) which shows the Government is blocking the breakdown of the cost blowout of CRLL. SPEAKER: How did the member get it; what's the source? Is it from a website—Hon Nikki Kaye: It's from the Official Information Act so it's not public information. SPEAKER: Is there any objection to the information of CRLL being tabled without all the other extra bits added on? Is there any objection to that? There appears to be none. It may be tabled. Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House.Chris Bishop: Does he stand by his statement that the Melling Interchange project ticks all the boxes"; and if so why has funding for the project been delayed until 2028 or later? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I reject the premise of the member's question that it's been delayed. Under the former Government the Melling project wasn't due to happen for another decade. Our Government has looked at it closely; the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has approved the project. It's said that it's got a detailed business case under way and all that's required is for funding to be made available and the NZTA is talking directly with the council about making that happen.SPEAKER: The Hon Chris Hipkins because I think it's probably related. Hon Chris Hipkins: It is indeed Mr Speaker. So can he confirm that despite any pre-election promises that were made no funding was allocated to the Melling Interchange project and it was not going to be allocated for at least another 10 years? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Yes that is in fact a correct telling of the history of the Melling project.Chris Bishop: You know that's not true. Nice try. Hon PHIL TWYFORD: It was one of a number of unfunded election campaign promises and that's all they were.SPEAKER: Now before I go to any supplementaries or any points of order I want to ask Mr Bishop whether he then made an unparliamentary interjection. Chris Bishop: I don't think so Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: Well if the member indicated that the Minister making a comment was saying something he knew was untrue it is exceptionally unparliamentary. Chris Bishop: Well yes I did make an inadvertent—SPEAKER: Well the member will withdraw and apologise. Chris Bishop: I withdraw and apologise. SPEAKER: I'll warn the member if he does that again—he has been around here for a long time he knows what the rules are and to pretend that he did not know what he said was out of order just doesn't wash with me. Hon James Shaw: Would the Minister agree that if we were to do as the Opposition is proposing and double the number of lanes every few decades—for example from two each way in Auckland to four each way then a few decades from now we would be doubling them from four each way to eight each way then from eight each way to 16 each way then from 16 each way to 32 each way—in that scenario what would happen to land prices? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well the member asks a very good question. The sheer amount of land that would be wasted adding more and more lanes to the motorway network doesn't even bear thinking about.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can the Minister confirm that with respect to the Pūhoi to Warkworth highway which has taken 12 years on that basis the so-called promised but unfunded Warkworth to Whangarei highway would take another 68 years?Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I think the member's calculations are absolutely right. What's more that stretch of highway that the National Party promised in the last election between Warkworth and Whangarei would cost $5 billion. At the time before the last election the then transport Minister Simon Bridges was advised that those promises would've required an extra 8c a litre fuel excise duty."