Benson-Pope David: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
Benson-Pope David: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
[Volume:648;Page:17481] 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Labour—Dunedin South) 
: 
 Well that challenge is being faced up to. I would like to thank the previous speaker Chester Borrows for a relatively rational analysis of some of the issues that we face in the Department of Corrections. It is certainly not the sort of analysis we would have got from the “hang ’em high” brigade but I guess in a time of policy inoculation it is quite important to tell people what they want to hear and not actually talk about what any other party might do to change the situation. 
Before I start the call I observe that of course a lot of the people especially the younger people who are presenting us with social issues at the moment are the creation of the National Government’s “Budget to end all Budgets” and the slashing and burning of community support and social support that was characteristic of the previous administration. Many of those young people—or not so young people—in our prisons now who are illiterate or innumerate missed out on those skills at the time of the National Government. 
So if ever we needed to have a cross-party non-partisan approach to social issues of this kind it is on an issue like this. But it has not escaped the attention of most of the community that we are much tougher because of our changes to sentencing laws. I guess one of the interesting dimensions of this job is realising there is—I suppose—a lag in terms of the performance of the judiciary with regard to their response not so much to the expectations of Parliament but to the expectations they identify in the community. I am pleased to see that a lot of members of the judiciary are facing up to that increased expectation right now. 
It is obvious that there is a significantly increased prison muster. Why else would this Government have committed over $600 million to building new prisons? I have to say that although we do not shirk or shrink from the responsibility of looking after the bad buggers who are out there we should not be proud as a community of our incarceration rate. It is actually a disgrace. It would be interesting to see whether this bullet can be bitten—perhaps that is the wrong analogy—during the election campaign and whether this nation finally starts to face up to the appalling statistics of incarceration by age and by ethnicity that are the reality in this country. That is not to say that anyone will be soft on crime or that the $600 million - plus for the three new prisons I just referred to will be wasted but this is an issue that our whole community needs to grapple with and that is why I complimented Mr Borrows on a mostly rational approach to this debate. 
This debate can be had only if people look at the issues—and do not scratch the sores—and actually try to find solutions. The previous speaker did not go that way and I will come back to the National Party’s policy in this area in a moment. We should focus as the previous speaker did on rehabilitation. The issues around literacy and numeracy are key and I am particularly pleased with the major changes there have been in approaches integrated with the Ministry of Social Development to put work brokers—from the beginning of sentence time not in the last few months before release—alongside people to help them acquire the skills they will need when they move from a locked-up situation out into the workforce. 
Mr Borrows made a really interesting comment. He talked about people coming out from prison better than when they go in. Well it is sure as hell a lot harder to come out now. When National was in power the security of the prisons was appalling. One of the major improvements that this Government has made is in that level of security and the huge reduction in escape figures demonstrates that. There has also been a massive reduction in drug use in our prisons. I am pleased to say that prisoners are already seeing the effect of the initiatives around access to cellphones which as everyone knows are extremely easy to conceal on the person and also the jamming of cellphone transmissions which is being introduced into our prisons as we speak. Clearly that will have a huge effect on people’s behaviour in prisons henceforth. 
I would love to talk about National’s solutions to these issues. Clearly Labour has a pretty impressive track record in the corrections area. Is everything perfect? No. Will everything ever be perfect in this area? No. As a community we have some really big challenges to face and I believe this Government has put its money where its mouth is in previous estimates and in these estimates to address those issues and address them responsibly. 
As I said earlier I would love to talk about National’s corrections policy. I cannot though because National does not have one. Of course even if National did have one it might be a policy like its policy on Iraq where National did a complete turn-round. Or it might be like the John Key policy on climate change in which climate change was a hoax one week and was “always believed” in the following week. Or it might be like the National Party policy on KiwiRail which John Key described as a dumb idea one week but then told us a couple of weeks later that he supported the purchase. Or it might be like the National Party policy on our antinuclear legislation which we know the National Party was keen to see gone by lunchtime. Or it might be like the John Key policy on KiwiSaver a policy that according to the leader of the National Party was one day fundamentally flawed and a few weeks later was obviously successful. Or most recently of course it might be like the National Party policy on that “communism by stealth” policy—the Working for Families policy—which one week was an appalling compulsory welfare scheme one that was going to be and let us get the quote absolutely correct opposed by the National Party “with every bone in our bodies”. Well I will leave listeners and members present in the House to make their decisions about how many bones Mr Key has in his body now that he has told this House and this community that the National Party will be adopting that most successful scheme in its entirety. 
I look forward as the community should to seeing some policy and solutions from the National Party in this area. When it does release its policy if it does ever release anything it would be really useful to the community if the National Party gave us more than the four bullet points it tends to give the community in most other areas. What this community is entitled to and what this community is demanding is the 30 or 40 pages of background that would give us the real National Party agenda. Not too many people are interested in the National Party saying: “Oh we’re going to do what they do.” Labour members are grateful that National members find our policy so successful. What the electors want to see in a few months’ time is the reality of the two-faced party that sits on the Opposition benches. 
Vote agreed to.