Brown Peter: Families Commission Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Procedure 
Brown Peter: Families Commission Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:614;Page:10312] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 If I understand it correctly schedule 4 is quite a significant amendment. By putting the Families Commission under the control of the Ombudsmen Act we are saying that Family Commission matters for want of a better term can be ruled upon by the Ombudsman. Maybe the Minister will give us some guidance on that. Is that not what this measure means? Does it mean that the Ombudsman can look at issues that stem from the Families Commission? Maybe Mr Peck can explain that to me because it is a sincere question. 
I thought the Ombudsman looked at individual cases. If people have an issue about something then they write to the Ombudsman—that was my understanding. The bill states: “That function does not include acting as an advocate for the interests of particular families in connection with a particular case or issues.” We are actually putting this bill under the control of the Ombudsman but we are saying that individual families or a collection of families with an individual problem cannot go to the Ombudsman to ask that it be solved. 
Hon Steve Maharey 
: I would answer the question but the member is being silly again. 
PETER BROWN 
: The Minister has said something. I think everybody would appreciate some guidance. 
Hon Steve Maharey 
: Wasting my time. 
PETER BROWN 
: It is wasting his time. He cannot be bothered. The truth is that the Minister does not know. Maybe United Future members can tell us—they are claiming the credit for this bill. Does putting this commission under the control of the Ombudsmen Act give people who are appealing to the Families Commissioner the right to write to the Ombudsman if they get a less than satisfactory answer? If it does not what is the point of putting it under the Ombudsman’s charge? Why do we bother putting it there if the Ombudsman cannot have any say on an individual family issue? 
I think that that is a legitimate question. I ask anybody on the Government benches including United Future members to explain how the Ombudsman can have control over the Families Commission but not have any say in matters that affect an individual family who might have approached the Families Commission for a solution. Maybe the officials can answer as there is dead silence from Government members. Maybe the officials will know—I see they are looking at something. I think the officials have recognised that there is a valid point here. Maybe the Minister would like to consult them and explain to the Committee. 
This has not gone through the select committee process in the normal sense and I think we are entitled to know whether the Ombudsman could have a conflict here. Could a family that writes to the Ombudsman over a particular issue involving the Families Commission be told by the Ombudsman that he or she cannot get involved because the commission cannot deal with individual family cases? If it is the case that there is no right of appeal from the Families Commission to anywhere why are we spending $28 million and saying that this bill is in the interests of children and families when it is not? 
If putting this commission under the Ombudsmen Act just means that the Family Commissioner can go to the Ombudsman for any problem that he or she might have in the operation of the Families Commission why do we not say so? The impression one gets by reading this bill is that the Ombudsman will be open to families who have some concern about the way the Family Commissioner does his or her job. But we then look at the function and as I said earlier it does not allow the commission to act as an advocate for the interests of a particular family or particular families in connection with a particular case or issue. That does not make sense to me but I am but a simple sailor and I think the Minister should take a call to explain how that rests with him and how he understands it will work in practice. Indeed I invite United Future members to take a call because this bill is meant to be the jewel in their crown.