8. Students with Special Needs—Seclusion RoomsCATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) to the Minister of EducationStudents with Special Needs—Seclusion Rooms8. CATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) to the Minister of Education: How many schools in Aotearoa including State schools and special schools have seclusion rooms?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education): The ministry has advised me that of the 64 special schools eight have seclusion rooms. Given the two complaints I was made aware of—one of which was Miramar Central School and the other of which is the subject of a police complaint—I directed the ministry to urgently survey all schools to establish whether any other schools have such rooms. That process is not yet complete. I have made it clear that seclusion is an unacceptable practice and a working group from the sector has been developing guidelines on better restraint and behaviour management practices which are shortly to be published.Catherine Delahunty: Given that the Minister has known about the usage of a seclusion room at Miramar Central School since 28 July why was the room still being used up to 20 September?Hon HEKIA PARATA: When the ministry advised me that a complaint had been made it also advised me that it had commissioned an independent review to gather the facts about the situation in order that action could be taken.Catherine Delahunty: I seek leave to table an answer to a written question that shows that the Minister—Mr SPEAKER: Order! All written questions are published already for members.Catherine Delahunty: From last night?Mr SPEAKER: They are all available for members. I have only got to go—sorry I just need to check. It is not one that was issued to the member and it is within the 3-day period is it?Catherine Delahunty: Yes it is.Mr SPEAKER: Oh then I do apologise. On that basis I will put the leave. It may be informative to members. Leave is sought to table the answer to a written question that has not yet been published to all members. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is none. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Catherine Delahunty: Given that she has described seclusion rooms as intolerable" why has the ministry been working on unenforceable guidelines for at least the last 18 months?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The sector wanted to take the approach of how does it improve the professional practice of schools given that it has been working to eliminate the confusion between time out for restraint and seclusion and because boards are required under National Administration Guideline 5 to provide a safe physical and emotional environment for students. It was expected that these guidelines would assist boards to carry out the responsibility they already have.Catherine Delahunty: Supplementary—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! We need to be able to hear the question.Catherine Delahunty: Does the Minister believe it is lawful under health and safety laws to have a locked room in school buildings with no means of escape during an emergency?Hon HEKIA PARATA: It is not a matter of belief; it is a matter of fact. It is unacceptable. There are cases in regard to laws amongst our 2500 schools where they have fallen foul of them. This is absolutely an instance of it. It is unacceptable.Catherine Delahunty: It's not lawful either.Hon Hekia Parata: I said it wasn't lawful Catherine.Catherine Delahunty: Why don't you do something?Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member has further questions she rises to her feet she calls for a supplementary question and I will give her the opportunity but she does not need to engage in a conversation. Does the member have a further—Catherine Delahunty: I have a further supplementary question.Mr SPEAKER: Then we will hear it.Catherine Delahunty: Will the Minister immediately decommission all seclusion rooms in all schools in Aoteoroa as requested by the Children's Commissioner? Hon HEKIA PARATA: The point I have been making is that that is already the case. However this school and the other schools that have them have fallen foul of existing requirements. Now we are focusing on how to help them understand what their responsibilities are and how to ensure that where there are children who do have extreme behaviour—who may hurt themselves other children or other adults—there is appropriate behaviour management in those circumstances. And seclusion rooms are not part of those options."