Mapp Wayne: Corrections Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
Mapp Wayne: Corrections Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Procedure 
[Volume:617;Page:13012] 
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
: 
 I wish to refer to clauses 185 and 186 headed “Management of prisons”. I have visited the Auckland Central Remand Prison which is managed privately. I have also visited Mount Eden Prison and Paremoremo prison in its various aspects—the most secure to the somewhat less secure. I would have to say that there was a marked and remarkable difference between the management of the prisons. 
Hon Paul Swain 
: One’s old and one’s new. 
Dr WAYNE MAPP 
: That is exactly what one would expect the Government to say. The Government simply puts the issue down to “one old and one new”. There are new parts to Paremoremo prison as well. I guess we would not expect the Minister to know that because the Government never gets as close as that to what is happening in the real world. One wonders to what extent the Government has really looked at how modern prisons are managed. I can tell the Minister that if he actually went to the remand prison and saw the innovative programmes and more particularly the incredible spirit of the team members and the way they work together as opposed to the—frankly—dispirited and desultory crew that exists at the other prisons in terms of the management there is just an enormous contrast. 
That cannot be put down to the fact that one is new and one is old. It is not. It is actually about management technique. The public sector brings all the old public sector shibboleths with it and has an incredibly hierarchical approach to things. I guess the Government likes that sort of thing. Its mates in the Public Service Association want that kind of approach. It is what it is used to. It is the sort of Government that brings back unions through the current Employment Relations Amendment Bill before the House at present—that is very old-fashioned and lacking in forethought. 
The most serious criticism that one can make of the Government in this regard is that the Government bases its actions today on the basis of a promise—in the past ill-informed prejudiced and without any benefit of learning from what happens in the real world. Normally we expect people to say: “Well that was a promise but I’ll look at the evidence.”—that is an evidenced-based approach. This Government has completely failed to do that and has acted entirely on an ideological basis. 
I have to inform the Committee that it is cheaper. The cost per prisoner equivalent on a per annum basis through adult and community education is in fact $43000. Public sector costs are $54000. It has to be an ideological decision to say: “We would sooner spend $11000 more per prisoner per year simply to suit an ideological perception.” It is those kinds of decisions—bit by bit by bit—that add up to Government costs and of course higher taxes. It is a whole bankrupt philosophy that this Government cannot look past in its blinkered approach to contemporary modern management. We make an absolute commitment that we will bring back modern management to prisons. That means adopting best practice learning from real-world experience and involving the private sector. 
I want to briefly turn to the issues that have been greeted with some mirth and rightly so about bedding exercise and training. What is so disturbing about this is that this Government thinks it is important to spend hours of Parliament’s time putting these kinds of nonsensical provisions into legislation. It is again reflective of the Government’s habits—the socialist tendency to micromanage everything down to the finest possible detail. We live in New Zealand. New Zealanders know that we actually have to feed people. They know we have to give them bedding. Maybe I can understand the issue about exercise. It is a genuine issue of human rights as to whether a person should be detained 24 hours a day without any exercise or have an hour. I can understand that point. But food and bedding! Frankly this is just absurd. This Parliament costs tens of thousands of dollars per hour to run. We expect the Government in its occasional lucid moments to take some cognisance of that.