7. Question No. 7—Social Development and EmploymentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 7—Social Development and Employment7. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by all of her statements and actions in relation to social development and employment?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Internal Affairs) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Yes.Hon Louise Upston: Is the Minister comfortable that one in nine working-age adults in New Zealand are on a main benefit and if not what targets will the Government set to reduce benefit dependency?Hon JAN TINETTI: I don't have that information in front of me and if the member wanted to be more specific then she should have put that into the primary question. But what I can say is that we as a Government are proud that in the last three quarters we have seen record numbers of people move off benefit and into work.Hon Louise Upston: Is the Minister concerned that 79200 people have spent more than two consecutive years on the job seeker benefit and if so which initiatives have been the most successful to help people who have been on benefit long term into work?Hon JAN TINETTI: What this Government has done that the previous Government failed to do is that we have put more front-line staff to help people when they come to the Ministry of Social Development who give them that support and help in that early intervention which is very important. We don't believe in a sanctions-based process which the previous Government did.Hon Louise Upston: Does she acknowledge that a disproportionate number of Māori moved on to benefit over the past two years and if so why has it taken more than four years to deliver the Māori employment action plan?Hon JAN TINETTI: As I said in my primary answer the member should have put those questions into the primary question because that information I don't have. But what I will say is that this Government has done a lot of work to move Māori into full-time employment including through programmes such as Mana in Mahi and He Poutama Rangatahi which are fabulous programmes and very strong in getting Māori into employment.Hon Louise Upston: Is the Government's flexi-wage extension on track to support 40000 people into jobs over two years and if not why not?Hon JAN TINETTI: I do not have that information in front of me and if the member would like to have that answer then if she would put that in writing the Minister will be happy to put in a full answer.Hon Louise Upston: What advice has she received about the impact on child poverty of having more children grow up in benefit-dependent homes?Hon JAN TINETTI: Once again the member could put that question in writing. But what I could say is some of the actions that we have taken to get people back into work is 263 new front-line staff in Budget 2019 to help people into work; invested $150 million in Budget 2020 to help more people into work; and invested a further $99 million in work-focused case management and services in Budget 2021.SPEAKER: I will just remind people of the Speaker's ruling that I quoted before. I will not insist on Ministers answering questions when there is not a specific link between the primary question and the supplementary.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: I hope the member's not just getting up to argue with the ruling that I've just given.Hon Michael Woodhouse: I wouldn't dare Mr Speaker. What I would point out though is that the Speaker's ruling you referenced doesn't specifically rule out the questions; it just says that the questioner can't expect a specific answer. The second thing I would say is that it does make it rather difficult when we prepare on the basis that the Minister is there to answer questions and an Associate or other Minister is answering on their behalf.SPEAKER: I think probably the member should look at the set of Speakers' rulings in that area. I quoted 183/3. Maybe 183/1 would be a good one for him to look at which says that a supplementary question must arise from the primary. Clearly if there is not a specific link the member can't expect an answer and should not whinge through the answer being given if it's not specific.Hon Michael Woodhouse: But it doesn't rule it out. SPEAKER: Sorry is the member suggesting that I should rule out the supplementary questions from his team if they don't flow properly?Hon Michael Woodhouse: No Mr Speaker; I'm suggesting that the question is not out of order according to the Standing Orders. We accept that we can't expect a specific reply and that's the ruling you've made. I'm just pointing out that it is difficult when there's an Associate answering on behalf of because we prepare on the basis that the Minister is able to answer the question and you did quote 183/3.Hon Chris Hipkins: Speaking to the point of order Mr Speaker. There are regularly occasions when Ministers are unable to be in the debating chamber at any given time and the solution to that if members who are asking questions wish to ensure that the Minister who is answering regardless of whether it's the usual Minister or someone standing in their place is that if they ask more specific questions then they can expect Ministers to be prepared in detail to provide detailed answers.SPEAKER: I think the Leader of the House has got it pretty well. As people are aware I'm a former Minister of Education. We had over 10000 ministerials a year—10000 separate things that we dealt with individually in a year and what that meant was when there was questioning about things frankly there was a big proportion of those that were not front of mind and therefore an indication of the specific area of questions meant that the Minister could come prepared. Both members have drawn distinctions where there was a member answering on behalf but frankly even as the primary Minister answering questions as detailed as the two we've had from here now it is I think unreasonable without proper notice to expect Ministers to answer those questions in detail. They're very specific. They're important questions and if members actually want answers to them then an indication of the direction of travel would certainly assist them in getting the answers. If people don't want real answers then we'll have what's happened here today.