Carter John: General Debate 
Carter John: General Debate 
[Volume:632;Page:3782] 
JOHN CARTER (National—Northland) 
: 
 That speech was about as exciting as a busted arm I have to say; it was an absolute shocker. Members always know when a Government is in trouble and when they are in trouble when they hear their colleagues start to talk negatively about them. We on this side have been through it; we have been there and done that. Let me tell members that that is happening more and more on that side. 
The other day I was at a select committee hearing. Let me tell members about the great genius Rick Barker. He came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee chaired by Shane Jones to be questioned for an hour. Paul Swain Mark Gosche and George Hawkins were there supporting Labour and Doug Woolerton was there. On National’s side were myself Chris Tremain and Craig Foss. Away we went; we had an hour with Rick. Well spending an hour with Rick was even worse than watching paint dry but never mind. There we were and we started questioning Rick. Well members saw what he was like yesterday when we started asking questions and some of the stuff we got from John Armstrong’s article this morning about  
Dad’s Army 
 etc. was very funny. 
But I have to tell members this. What was really funny were the looks on the faces of and the comments from Rick Barker’s colleagues during and after the meeting. We had a whole series of questions and then finally Shane Jones had had enough. He said we would have the last question and Craig Foss asked the last question. Craig asked the question and Rick made some strangled sounds and got the answer out whatever it was. Rick went over and over it but we could not understand it. Then Shane Jones said he was pleased to announce that mercifully that was the end of the questions. I thought that that was really saying something about one’s colleague. 
But during the questioning George Hawkins—ex - Minister of Civil Defence—knew that Rick was in trouble. He knew that Rick was on the spot and in trouble. So George came up with the patsy of all patsy questions. He said to Rick— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Please use the member’s full name. 
JOHN CARTER 
 George Hawkins said to Rick Barker: “There are 16 civil defence regions in New Zealand.”—well that came as a surprise to Rick but anyway we got through that. And George said to Rick: “They’ve all had to put in a civil defence plan.” Rick said: “Yes … ”. George Hawkins asked: “Mr Barker how many plans have been signed off?”. Well Doug Woolerton knew the answer Paul Swain knew and George Hawkins knew of course because he was the former Minister. Mark Gosche Shane Jones and we on our side knew. Only one guy did not know. 
Lindsay Tisch 
: Who was that? 
JOHN CARTER 
: Rick Barker! He did not know so he made more strangled sounds and then said: “Hang on I will ask the officials.” An official said to him: “Look I think that we’re probably going to get some good stuff out of these things and they’ll be very good when they arrive.” Rick Barker said: “There you are there’s the answer.” So I said: “Well hang on but that hasn’t answered the question of how many have been signed off. That’s what George Hawkins wants to know.” Rick Barker made more strangled sounds and asked the officials again and there was no answer—they could not tell him. So in the end I said: “Rick I think there have been 16 signed off.” He said: “Oh yes well there could be.” Well poor old Mark Gosche was sitting there and he said: “You just can’t help some people sometimes can you?”. George Hawkins—the previous Minister of Civil Defence—just wanted to slide under the table. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: He should be proud because Rick makes him look good! 
JOHN CARTER 
: Well that is the point. I am starting to hear people in civil defence ask for George Hawkins back. I mean bless my soul! The point is that the member’s own colleagues have started making comments. Poor old Paul Swain was so stunned that he could not talk for 3 or 4 days afterwards actually. After Rick left the looks of disbelief and dismay between the members were just something to see. The chairman of the committee said it was merciful it was over one member said there is no helping some people the poor old previous Minister was just shocked and another colleague sat there with his hand on his forehead like he is right now hoping that it was just a dream or a bad nightmare or something. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Did he buy the video? 
JOHN CARTER 
: Well exactly. The point is that when members get to the stage where their colleagues are dismayed and not supportive they are in trouble.