8. Question No. 8—Social Development and EmploymentKAREN CHHOUR (ACT) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 8—Social Development and EmploymentKAREN CHHOUR (ACT): My question is to the Minister for Social Development and Employment—[Interruption]DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Sorry to interrupt the member. Interjections during questions are out of order. You know who you are. I'll let you start again Karen Chhour.8. KAREN CHHOUR (ACT) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she believe that jobseeker beneficiaries who fail to meet their work obligations should have their benefits reduced; if so why were work-related benefit sanctions in the last quarter of the last year less than half what they were in 2019?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Only if it is appropriate to do so and as a last resort. The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) has changed its way of working during COVID-19. Staff are more proactive with clients and offer more phone engagements in line with the alert and traffic light settings. The member will notice the number of people sanctioned for failing to prepare for work has remained steady over this time period and almost all the drop-off in sanctions is for failing to turn up to an appointment. This reflects the changed environment due to COVID-19 as well as increased Government investment in front-line work-focused case management. I'd also like to point out the big drop in the number of parents with dependent children who are sanctioned. This fell from 1980 in December 2019 to 579 in December 2021. MSD are working more closely with clients to understand the reason for their non-compliance and make it easier to re-comply if they have children. Our new ways of working have been successful. Last year more people moved off a main benefit and into work than at any time since electronic records were kept a trend which is continuing in 2022.Karen Chhour: If someone on jobseeker support does not have an exemption for health reasons and refuses to fulfil a suitable job vacancy should they be able to stay on their full benefit with no consequences?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Every person's situation on the benefit is different and it's important that the Ministry of Social Development and the case managers recognise that. We also need to begin from the starting point of assuming that the vast majority of people who are on benefit do want to work. MSD's job is to support them into the job opportunities that are available that are best suited to them and work to ensure that the work they take up is sustainable and meaningful for them and good for them and their whānau.Karen Chhour: Is it fair to use hard-working Kiwis' taxes to pay for 106000 work-ready jobseeker beneficiaries when many industries are crying out for labour with some having to shut their doors due to understaffing?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What is not fair is to use the politics of divide and rule by trying to pit those hard-working" New Zealanders against people that are on benefit. Many of us in this House would have had a stint on benefit at some point in time. We're no longer on it. We didn't have the intention to stay on it. We always had aspirations to get out and work for ourselves and our whānau and that is what the vast majority of beneficiaries also have. There's also a cohort of New Zealanders who struggle to get into work for a range of other reasons including health conditions and disabilities and for far too long they have been under-invested in. It's not just about expecting the person on benefit to get off benefit and go and work. It's about a Government being committed to breaking down the barriers to them being able to take up employment.Karen Chhour: Why when so many businesses need staff have the average future years on a benefit risen from 10.6 years in 2017 to 12.4 years in 2021?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I saw some recent information that came through to my office yesterday that actually saw there's been a reasonably significant increase in the number of New Zealanders who were exiting benefit and still in employment six months later. This is what we've been focused on since day one in Government—is not just seeing getting people off benefit as the win which the previous Government saw as a win regardless of where they went but actually supporting them into sustainable meaningful employment so that they are able to continue to work for them and their whānau and hopefully with the right support not return to benefit."