Jones Dail: Lawyers and Conveyancers Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Jones Dail: Lawyers and Conveyancers Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:624;Page:19499] 
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
: 
 As the preceding speaker mentioned I have lodged a couple of amendments on behalf of New Zealand First. One is to do with the retention of Queen’s Counsel and the other is to do with the attack this bill imposes on banks and the extra charges that the clients of law firms will face as a result of the reduction in the interest made available to the banks. The preceding speaker Mr Simon Power from the National Party made a good point about clause 4. In subclause (b) of that clause there is a fundamental obligation on lawyers to be independent in providing regulated services to their clients. With regard to lawyers being independent I say that speaking broadly there is nothing more independent than the independent Bar which consists of the Queen’s Counsel. This Government is proposing to remove that independent Bar and bring it to an end. That is a contradiction in this legislation. Clearly this Government has something against Queen’s Counsel and I will be going into that in greater detail later. 
I will look in terms of Part 1 at the role that a conveyancer will have to play as a result of this legislation. Let us remember that this legislation was brought about by the Hon Mr Goff in around 1997 when he was an Opposition member of Parliament. He came up with a brilliant idea and I am sure that Mr Goff will take many calls tonight because obviously he is extremely interested in this legislation. It was brought about by his wishes and I look forward to hearing about his support for this bill. I oppose the bill in certain part although generally New Zealand First will be giving it support. I look forward to hearing Mr Goff’s comments on it as I am sure do all conveyancers and members of the New Zealand Law Society. This bill is 346 pages long. The part we are considering is some 30 pages long and is mainly to do with interpretation. We are creating a lawyers’ and conveyancers’ way of looking at legal work—in particular in so far as conveyancers are concerned with regard to property matters. That is speaking very broadly for the benefit of members of the public. 
First of all in this bill we come up with a definition of a conveyancer who is then given a conveyancers society inspectorate by this legislation. I am sure that when conveyancers thought of having their own legislation one of the things that would not have occurred to them was the need for a conveyancers society inspectorate to be established by the New Zealand Society of Conveyancers. I look at that from the point of view of a conveyancer and at the administration costs that this legislation will impose on a conveyancer. Then we have the Conveyancing Practitioners’ Fidelity Fund something else that conveyancers will have to face. One wonders whether they can possibly afford one. Again this bill sets up conveyancing practitioners standards committees to be established pursuant to clause 114 of the bill. That is another cost on conveyancers that this legislation will require. Then there is also a disciplinary tribunal the New Zealand Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal. If I were a conveyancer—and I understand there may be only about eight of them—I would be shuddering in my shoes already to think that the eight conveyancers will have to pay for an inspectorate to have a fidelity fund to have standards committees and to have a disciplinary tribunal for all eight of them. I wonder whether conveyancers had expected this legislation to affect them in that way when they wanted a separate freedom to carry on their conveyancing work. 
 The other type of definition is that of the Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal which is referred to in clause 206. There is also going to be a New Zealand Society of Conveyancers. The conveyancers will probably have to get a lawyer to set up all those things for them. I just wonder how many thousands of dollars they will have to pay lawyers as a result of all the various things they will be required to do before they can even get under way.