Watts SimonSIMON WATTS (National—North Shore): Thank you very much Madam Chair. I want to have a further conversation in regards to section 234B subclause (1)(a) and (b) and it is the same clause in which my colleague Erica Stanford just asked some questions. But I'm taking a different angle on this because I think the points that my good colleague from East Coast Bays Erica Stanford noted is around—you know the reality is there's going to be some individuals captured who don't want to be captured by this process.But my specific questions relate to the requirements under 234B(1)(a) that the contact details are stored separately from any other information held by the union;". The question for the Minister particularly is: how does he envisage that that will occur in practice? Because the majority of this information no doubt will be held electronically. The requirement under the legislation here is that it is stored separately from any other information held by the union so one would take from that that there would be an expectation on unions to establish a new contact database system separate systems from their existing contact systems that they hold. Obviously that's going to result in I guess quite a high degree of additional requirement for resource but also around the duplication of system processes. So that's the first question around practically is that what the Minister's envisaging from paragraph (a).The second question I've got relates to 234C(1)(a) and this is around personal information. I'm specifically looking at paragraph (b) of that 234C—hopefully for those at home they're following all of these references to the legislation; I appreciate it is a bit challenging because there's a number of numbers here. But this point is in regards to—so that information can be used for the purposes of bargaining and it can't be disclosed to any person except in a form that does not identify the individual. So particularly (a) is where I'm trying to link that back to the point above because what are the checks and balances that give someone particularly the individual that doesn't want to be captured by this—what are the checks and balances that are within the system that ensures that their personal information is firstly stored separately. Secondly what is the ability for an individual to be able to seek assurance that that is the case? Is there a process that's going to be put in place in order to be able to request information in regards to that? What is the monitoring and review process that will be in place to provide assurance and substantiation in regards to the fact that this is occurring? Because the legislation refers to 234B(3) where a union intentionally or recklessly fails to comply with subsection (1) which I discussed at the start. I mean they're going to be liable to penalties.So what I'm interested in—and that's my third question—I didn't think under privacy you had to meet a threshold of being reckless. Actually I'm looking at the Rt Hon Judith Collins in regards to privacy. I mean I think the disclosure of personal information is very much black and white: you either disclose it or you don't. It's not that you have to be reckless or that you're intentionally doing that. So that's applying—I mean I'm not a lawyer and I would never presume to be one but just as a simple accountant I would think that—Hon Michael Woodhouse: Never just a simple accountant.SIMON WATTS: —crikey—thank you very much Hon Michael Woodhouse; from one accountant to another. You know why are we putting this additional layer that you actually have to meet a higher threshold in regards to that disclosure of information? So I'm wanting to get—I mean I think this is quite a concern. I want to see what their processes are around assurance in regards to that particularly around that threshold because a penalty will be applied.And the last question that I've got and I know I am linking a number of clauses but I think it is important is around 234(2)(a)—right follow that through hopefully no problem—"A record must be kept—(a) in written form;". So going back to my first point—[Bell rung] Madam Chair. Madam Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Mr Simon Watts.SIMON WATTS: Thank you very much Madam Chair. I didn't think it was going to go on so long but it's obviously getting a little bit more complex than what I originally envisaged. But the point I made at the start around the fact that this information needs to be stored separately—you know you've now got a case that some employers will be able to keep this information in a written form. Let's just think about the practicality of how this is going to happen: is that going to be a separate storage cabinet? You know all of that stuff. What consideration has been done in terms of—I'm sure there's been a huge amount of thinking around practical implications of legislation but what I've hopefully just identified is a number of issues so I'm interested for the Minister to just comment on those four questions. Thank you."