Hernandez Francisco; Kuriger BarbaraFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green): Thank you Madam Chair. I do have a question that was kind of spurred on by reading the list in Schedule 2 of the identified gangs. While my question might seem kind of absurd on the face of it I do ask the Minister and the committee to bear with me. This question came to me when I was reading through it. It says one of the gangs that were struck off was—and please forgive my pronunciation; I'm not Irish—Sinn Fein: Sinn Fein … (not being a branch or an associated organisation of the political party known by a similar name).Now my question is—and this might seem like an absurd question but we do know that some gangs do have a history of appropriating the imagery of political parties or political movements; for example the Mongrel Mob does use Nazi imagery—what would happen if for example a gang were to appropriate the image of a political party? Now I don't want to give offence to any members in the House so I'll construct a hypothetical political party. For example let's say there was a party called the Golden Party with the symbol of the sun. Now I think this question relates to clause 29 where a judge may apply section 128 of the Evidence Act in deciding whether a sign symbol or presentation is gang insignia for the purpose of the Act.Let's look at what section 128 of the Evidence Act actually is—and I'm quoting from this. It says "(1) A Judge or jury may take notice of facts so known and accepted either generally or in the locality in which the proceeding is being held that they cannot reasonably be questioned. (2) A Judge may take notice of facts capable of accurate and ready determination by reference to sources whose accuracy cannot reasonably be questioned and if the proceedings involve a jury may direct the jury in relation to this matter."So I've read through that and I'm still none the wiser as to what would actually happen if a gang were to steal the clothes of a political party so to speak. Would that political party's insignia be banned? And in some cases a gang might—there are some circumstances where a gang might transform into a political movement. We've seen for example—I don't want to name people so I'm not going to name political figures in New Zealand—but it could potentially happen. So what would happen in that case where a gang was either trying to appropriate a legitimate political party and a political party was against the gang doing that but it became claimed as gang insignia. Would that political party insignia be banned? And then the other kind of side of the question is if a gang transitioned to being a political party or a political movement or some sort of kind of civil society—you know there is a little clause here that in clause 30(2)(a): "Nothing in subsection (2)(c) applies to conduct that consists primarily of civil disobedience for the purpose of political activism." But sometimes there are kind of grey lines about what different sides of a political movement and different kind of wings or factions of it. So I'm really curious about the answers to these questions. Thank you.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): I'm going to take a call from Lawrence Xu-Nan. I think we've had some really relevant questions about the list of how these decisions are made. I don't think we can expect a Minister in the House to answer questions about specific groups of people as such. So can you just identify the clause in there—I'm not assuming that this is what your question is about but please identify which clause you're going to speak on and why."