Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:662;Page:10238] 
1. 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his statement “New Zealand takes its international obligations seriously and does not support texts unless we are able to implement them”? 
Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Are there are any articles in the text that his Government signed up to this morning that he is not able or is unwilling to implement? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: I think it is important to understand that the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is just that—it is a declaration. It is not a treaty it is not a covenant and one does not actually sign up to it. It is an expression of aspiration; it will have no impact on New Zealand law and no impact on the constitutional framework. What is more the advice we had from Crown Law was that whether or not New Zealand affirmed it in areas where we do not have law or constitutional arrangements already the declaration could be imported already and that people have already tried to do so so affirming it would have no effect whatsoever. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: As the Prime Minister has told this House that he does not sign up to texts unless he intends to implement them within the text that he signed up to this morning does he intend to implement wholly or partially articles 19 26 or 32? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: We did not sign up to anything; we affirmed a declaration that is non-binding and aspirational. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: In saying he did not sign up to anything this morning does that confirm that what he signed up to is totally meaningless? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: No. The reality is that New Zealand has a very proud record when it comes to indigenous rights and for New Zealand not to have affirmed the declaration when Crown Law’s advice was quite clear that this was a non-binding aspirational goal that would have no impact on New Zealand’s law or New Zealand’s constitution looked to me to be a bit churlish. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Which of his Ministers was correct this morning: his Minister of Maori Affairs Pita Sharples who said this signature came without caveats; or his Minister of Foreign Affairs who said it came with caveats? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: Both of them are correct. I would not describe the statement made in reading the affirmation to the declaration as being a caveat but it clearly spells out that it is a non-binding aspirational goal that does not supersede New Zealand’s law or New Zealand’s constitutional arrangements. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Why did he breach his no-surprises agreement with his coalition partner Rodney Hide by covertly agreeing to sign up to this text without telling him or the rest of New Zealand first? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: For a start it is a bit hard to do things covertly when we put out a press release to say we were doing it. That is the first thing. The second thing is that for quite some time I have been saying the Government was working towards this including as late as last week when I said: “From New Zealand’s perspective it is true we have been working and looking at ways we might adopt the declaration. Progress is being made and I am happy with that progress.” 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: Does his Government support article 26 of the declaration which states: “… Indigenous peoples have the right to the lands territories and resources which they have traditionally owned occupied or otherwise used or acquired.”; if so can he tell the House which parts of New Zealand or which natural resource were not traditionally owned occupied or otherwise used or acquired by Maori before European settlement? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: We support that only where it is consistent with the Treaty of Waitangi. I might add that last year Australia affirmed the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as has the vast majority of the world. The last time that I looked the indigenous people of Australia were not taking control of the entire country nor were other indigenous peoples around the world. It is a non-binding aspirational goal. Where it is consistent with the Treaty of Waitangi Maori will have their lands. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister did not address my question. It was not about Australia and it was not about whether endorsing the declaration was aspirational or non-binding. My question was about whether his Government supports article 26. Then I asked if the Government did support that which parts were not already owned occupied or used by Maori before European settlement. None of that was addressed. It had nothing to do with Australia. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has raised a finely balanced point of order. My interpretation of the Prime Minister’s answer was that he was pointing out that the article has no binding effect; therefore it cannot alter who owns what in New Zealand at all. The member still has a further supplementary question. If he wishes to dig deeper into that issue I think he can do so with that further supplementary question. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Actually we do not have a further supplementary question because Mr Boscawen has a question for oral answer. But the point is that whether or not the declaration is binding this was a serious question about whether the Government supports the article. It was not about whether the declaration is binding or whether Australia did this or that; it was about whether the Government supports article 26. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member makes a fair point. I invite him to state his question again and give the Prime Minister a chance to answer it. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: Does his Government support article 26 of the declaration which says: “… Indigenous peoples have the right to the lands territories and resources which they have traditionally owned occupied or otherwise used or acquired.”; if so can he tell the House which parts of New Zealand or which natural resource were not traditionally owned occupied or otherwise used or acquired by Maori before European settlement? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: Only where it is consistent with the Treaty of Waitangi. That is exactly the process when people go through a Treaty claim. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Was Dr Sharples correct when he said the decision to sign the text was made weeks ago by Cabinet; if so why was no announcement made why were the media not informed of Dr Sharples’ impending trip—other than Maori Television—and why was the event taken out of the ministerial diary of events? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: If he said “signed” then he cannot be right because one does not sign the declaration; one affirms it. 
Rahui Katene 
: Is there any sense of how New Zealand’s decision to support the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples has been received on the international stage? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: Yes. The statement of Mr Carlos Mamani chair of the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues is extremely positive. Mr Mamani said that in declaring its support for the declaration “ … the Government of New Zealand has reaffirmed the principles of respect non-discrimination and good faith enshrined in the Declaration. The Permanent Forum looks forward to continuing its engagement with the Government of New Zealand in a spirit of cooperation in order to advance the rights of indigenous peoples in New Zealand and around the world.” 
Hon Parekura Horomia 
: How will the signing of this text contribute in any practical way to resolving problems that face Maori in New Zealand today? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: In a practical sense there is much more likely to be advanced results in that regard when it comes to Whanau Ora. I look forward to the Opposition supporting that. 
Rahui Katene 
: What does he think will be the consequences for the international reputation of New Zealand of headlines such as the one from  
Metro News  
in Canada: “New Zealand reverses opposition to UN Declaration on indigenous rights US reviewing stance” or the one from AFP at the United Nations stating simply: “New Zealand backs indigenous rights”? 
Hon JOHN KEY 
: I think the reaction will be very positive. That really is the point about New Zealand affirming the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. New Zealand has a very proud record. It has nothing to be ashamed of in this area. We have a strong legal basis and constitutional framework. I cannot see why New Zealand would not want to be there affirming on the world stage that we care about the rights of indigenous people.