Collins Judith: Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeCollins Judith: Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 18 September 2013. Volume:693;Page:13516. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice): I have to say I do not think that effort of abuse from the former leader of the Labour Party who took them to their historically lowest defeat Mr Goff is going to impress David Cunliffe one bit.Hon Phil Goff: Just stick to the issues.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: He calls out to me to just stick to the issues. Well I have just endured 10 minutes of unmitigated personal abuse from that man and he tells me tostick to the issues. Well for goodness’ sake. I am so sick of listening to that sanctimonious rubbish that he has been speaking for 10 years when he was the worst Minister of Justice in 20 years. He is the man who oversaw the increase in the prison population from 5000 when he came into office to 8500 only 9 years later. It is an appalling record for a man who wants to now suddenly put himself on his white horse and say he is there for justice. No he is not. He is hopeless. He always was; he still is.Having said that—I think it is important to actually let him know what we all think about him—let us look at this Part 4. He has talked a lot tonight about the regulatory impact statement. Well that is a good thing to talk about except of course that was done before all of the changes that were put in by the Justice and Electoral Committee—all of the changes that the Government has agreed to. He talks about submissions from the expert panel the advisory group. Actually of course that was before all of the changes that came through. Of course what we now have is a bill the Family Court Proceedings Reform Bill that is very sensible that goes right down the medium track and that puts children first. Despite that member I do not believe that we are here in Parliament to feather the nests of professionals; actually we are here to help professionals do the right thing for people when needed.Let us just look at what is happening in legal aid all around the world. I went and had a look at what is happening in family law in California. They have mediation. They have all matters going through mediation even matters relating to domestic violence which I just did not believe we should do. Having said that they said to me that they have no legal aid assistance—no legal aid assistance—for family law matters. I actually do not think that is right.Hon Phil Goff: Oh it’s the American model now is it?Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Mr Goff now says that that means I think that is a good idea—I have just said Mr Goff if you would only open your silly ears and listen to it man. We now look at the UK. It has severely cut access to legal aid in Family Court matters because just like us it has seen what has happened to legal aid. That man Mr Goff oversaw a 70 percent increase in legal aid. This was he said all about adjusting fees. Actually what it did do Mr Goff is it meant that a lot of people got hauled through court by their former partner because that partner now had something a stick to hit and beat that other partner with. That is not acceptable.When he talks about the great legal issues well let me just ask him this: what great legal issues? Family Court law and the care of children are not great legal questions that need to be debated for hours and hours.Hon Phil Goff: The experts are wrong and the Minister is right again. Typical arrogance.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: What needs to be debated in every single case is what is in the best interests of the child—the best interests of the child. Mr Goff you have had your say. I sat back and I listened to that abuse from you. Why do you not just take some facts for a change? But of course he cannot because Phil Goff is a failed Labour Party leader the worst Labour Party leader it ever had and frankly I would have thought Phil Goff—Hon Phil Goff: What a hypocrite. Talking about personal abuse and dishing it out.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Oh you big girl’s blouse honestly! I say this to Phil Goff. Phil Goff you could do with a bit of mediation in your Labour Party family at the moment. It might be helpful.Having said that let us stick to what the facts really are. Part 4 amends the Legal Services Act 2011 to redefine when eligible parties may apply for legal aid. What it does do is provide that parties can still apply for legal aid. I would like people to notremember anything Mr Goff said because he was wrong. People still can have legal aid for a lawyer to act for them in international child abduction applications. They can also apply for legal aid when a court directs that. An application can be heard in conjunction with an application under another Act. An application proceeds to a hearing—oh he did not tell us that did he. Parties may be represented at a settlement conference. So yes legal aid is available for those who need it.Eligible parties will be able to apply for legal aid for most without notice applications. If Mr Goff would only read the bill that he is so busy talking about—actually mostly he was talking about me frankly to be perfectly fair—he would see that those are matters relating to violence those are matters relating to urgency and those are matters relating to issues where a child is at risk. They are all without notice applications and for those applications legal aid will be available. Some without notice applications will not be eligible for legal aid but the vast majority of them will. The ones where they are not eligible for legal aid are where only one applicant is affected—no one else is affected—where the matters are merely routine or where the other party is dead or cannot be found. That seems pretty fair to me. It is pretty difficult to sue a dead person over care of children issues. Legal aid will also be available where a judge directs an application commenced on notice is to be proceeded without notice. Eligible parties will still be able to apply for legal aid when they want to consent to orders at a settlement conference. So they will in fact get the legal advice that we have been told tonight by the Labour Party they will not get before they agree to all sorts of things at the settlement conference. Yes they will and they have been advised by a judge to obtain the legal advice.Finally the Government’s Supplementary Order Paper 349 amends clause 71 to clarify that eligible parties cannot apply for legal aid for legal advice and assistance where they are proposing to commence or respond to Care of Children Act 2004 proceedings. The Government will be funding the legal support prior to the Care of Children Act proceedings outside of the legal aid budget. So they will still be funded.Thank you very much for the opportunity to correct some of those matters—Andrew Little: One hour of advice.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Mr Little says “One hour of advice.” Actually Mr Little you talked about Parenting through Separation. You know this. You were on the select committee most of the time. Parenting through Separation—you have got the family dispute resolution service which is a service that was absolutely widely promoted by the expert advisory panel. That is a point that has been completely ignored by the Labour Party tonight. Of course there is also legal aid where it is needed. Judges will have far more authority and ability to deal with issues in a finite way so that people are not consistently going back into court and relitigating the same issues time and time again all to the detriment not only of themselves but of their children.