Bridges SimonHon SIMON BRIDGES (Minister of Transport): It is really good to take a call on this and discuss what I think is a really serious issue. I think one of the interesting things about this is on the Government side of this which is Paula Bennett as Minister of State Services who has spoken or whether it is me as Minister of Transport—I do not think we disagree with anything we have heard so far from Andrew Little from the other speakers from the Greens and from New Zealand First.Of course there will always be politics in these things. I do not see it as particularly political actually. It is a situation that has presented itself through ultimately—and that is not to say there are not shortcomings—the dishonesty and manipulation of a woman and we need to learn from it and as I say I think actually the House agrees with all of that. This is to be sure—let us make no bones about it—a sorry sorry saga.In a sense you would say there is nothing good that can come out of something like this. As Clayton Mitchell has said seven-hundred-and-something thousand dollars nicked stolen taken deceitfully from—ultimately he is exactly right—the taxpayers of New Zealand who do not expect or deserve to see this sort of thing happen. I think with all of that said though we can and we will see some good come from this inasmuch as there have been within the Ministry of Transport as a result of reviews—there are clearly from the tenor of the Minister's comments—improvements to the system with the whistleblowing legislation and so on that are being seriously considered and that will come from this.I think we have to be careful in cases such as this of glib sweeping statements. We have seen that. At one level there is the sort of: Look it is all on her—a clever manipulative fraudster; it is all her fault." And at a level that is the side I am on by and large. Or a view we have seen very recently: "No actually she was stupid." I saw one of the blogsites say that she was stupid and this should all have been picked up really early on in the piece.I would on balance go with the "clever manipulative" side of these things but that does not mean at any level that the ministry involved here the Ministry of Transport and the overall system if you like—the State services system that the States Services Commission (SSC) presides over and the commissioner ultimately presides over—cannot learn from this. Of course it can. With the independent reviews the big chartered accountant firm's reports into various internal processes auditing processes and so on and so forth within the ministry—the whistleblower situation where originally the internal review started and then moved given the seriousness of it given the allegations coming to light into the State Services Commissioner's remit—I think changes have come and will come from that. Because there have been shortcomings; there have been shortcomings in the system.I think what we should not do though on the back of that—as I say when we take care about these things—is to do either of two things. We should not absolve the State sector; I actually agree with Sue Moroney about that. It is right to go through these things carefully and scrupulously. We need to improve. But we also should not in any way shape or form absolve Joanne Harrison who ultimately—I think actually in any scenario; I disagree with that blog recently—was a dishonest clever in her way in her fraud calculating and manipulating person who has rightly gone to jail for several years as a result of that. Ultimately we need to call it as it is: she was and is a fraudster.Let us also be clear when we discuss this case and we go through it—as Nick Smith and I were discussing just before this debate or as this debate had started—she is not the first and she will not be the last. Actually every Government that New Zealand has had certainly in the recent past has had someone like a Joanne Harrison. Be very clear. That is not to be complacent about that. Improvements in the system that can be made should be made. I made clear when we were talking about the reviews of the Ministry of Transport's processes that there were some real shortcomings there and ditto in relation to the whistleblowing and the suggestions by the State Services Commission. They should be made. But she is not the first and she will not be the last.The context I think is important. Paula Bennett made this point and I will just reiterate it. We should not lose sight—in the overall context of our State sector of Ministers of members of Parliament some senior officials down to the very bottom—as New Zealanders ultimately that we are and we should cherish and be proud of the fact that we are even with this case one of the most transparent least corrupt countries in the world. We are rightly the equal least corrupt country according to Transparency International this year. We are the most prosperous country in the world. We are the first for ease of business. We have high satisfaction in life. We consistently in these areas come out very very highly. Actually I agree—although I am hearing from some of the members over on the other side—that is why we need to cherish these things. That is why we need to take them seriously as the Government does and not fall into complacency in relation to cases such as this.There are clear shortcomings here identified now by the independent reviews the SSC report. Ultimately I think we can say that while it will never be perfect in how it flows through in the time lines and the various things that go on—particularly when you look back in hindsight—nevertheless ultimately the system has dealt with it. We as members of Parliament can talk about it all quite openly and freely. Whether it is the Ministry of Transport whether it is the Serious Fraud Office that prosecuted Joanne Harrison and you know through the courts saw her sentenced to several years' imprisonment whether it is the SSC whether it is parliamentary committees ultimately the system has dealt with this I think strongly.Finally can I just say in relation to whistleblowers and the issues there what we saw was completely unacceptable. Quite clearly from the State Services Commissioner's report these folk these officials these hard-working officials within the ministry were disadvantaged. And I think it is right and it is the right place that the State Services Commissioner has apologised and that they through that process through the SSC and the Ministry of Transport will receive redress for the wrong committed to them through all of this sorry sorry saga."