Prebble Richard: Ngaa Rauru Kiitahi Claims Settlement Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Prebble Richard: Ngaa Rauru Kiitahi Claims Settlement Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:627;Page:21874] 
Hon RICHARD PREBBLE (ACT) 
: 
 I think the honourable member made a good point and I would like to hear from the Minister. But I was stunned to hear that New Zealand First does not have any problems with the definitions apart from that because I am very interested in clause14(1)(a) which deals with the meaning of the historical claims—it “means every claim” and it states: “(i) is or is founded on a right arising—(A) from the Treaty of Waitangi or the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi;”. Now I was under the mistaken impression that the New Zealand First Party was not going to vote for any more legislation that contained that phrase—“the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi”—for a very good reason because what does it mean? 
Every member knows that because of the passing this bill some meaning will have to be given to that phrase so I ask the honourable Minister in the chair to tell the Committee exactly what is meant by the statement: “or the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi”. I ask the Minister what they are and I ask him to please set them out clearly. Obviously he must know what they are—otherwise he would not be asking this Committee to vote for the provision. Surely we cannot be being asked to vote for something the Minister does not know the meaning of. If he does not know what it means perhaps his officials could tell him but the ACT party did not vote against the first part partly because I thought that if we were going to make an apology then it should be unanimous. But I advise the Minister that I cannot see how any real parliamentarian can possibly vote for this part unless we all know what it means. 
I want to make it quite clear—and I have been a member of the Maori Affairs Committee—that I have no idea what that phrase means. Well I have some vague ideas but I think it is an elastic concept. In my time in the House it has completely changed so I would like to have from the Minister a very clear succinct statement which would be very helpful for people coming along later so that we all know what the House of Representatives has voted for tonight. So could the Minister please take a call and tell the Committee what is meant by “the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi” and perhaps New Zealand First Party members could also explain to me why they are voting for this part when I understood that one of the things they are campaigning on around the country is that they are opposed to this sort of loose phrase being included in legislation. 
I have to say that I disagree with Mr Peters about a wide range of things but I think the statements he has made in criticising the introduction of this sort of loose terminology into the statute book are correct. We have criticised the courts for some of the bizarre decisions they make on those issues but when we introduce a phrase of this sort we are inviting judges to take our jobs to start being members of Parliament and to write the law. If we are going to pass that clause as it is written we are inviting trouble in the future and no MP can complain if the principles of the treaty turn out to be something that will come as a great shock to all members of Parliament. 
 It would be very helpful—it would certainly help the ACT party to decide whether we should vote for this section or against it—if the Minister would simply rise and since he is asking us to vote for the principles of the treaty set out for the Committee what those principles are. I am sure that a well-prepared Minister would not have come here not expecting this question. I am sure he was expecting it and I would like to think that he has prepared a succinct statement. That would be very helpful. I can see that some of the Maori members of Parliament are also looking forward to hearing from the Minister of the Crown an authoritative clear statement—[ 
Interruption 
] The member has me even more worried. He says that I am at fault. If I am at fault it is high time this was put a stop to.