Reti ShaneClause 6 Section 13 amended (Miscellaneous offences)Dr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei): Thank you Mr Chair. This clause very clearly talks about possession of a pipe and the purpose of that is for using any plant or plant material. So if the discussion of loose-leaf was ever out of the discussion before clearly it's in here. The Minister indicated last night that smoked loose-leaf is part of a full medicinal cannabis scheme; so that's just a given. Let's just accept that and talk to it as it is.And we heard what he said. You heard from our side that there may be some misunderstanding around the use of smoked loose-leaf in the terminal exception. I made the point last night that if you start people on smoked loose-leaf under the terminal exception without sunsetting it—without putting an end to it—you will not ethically be able to pull it away when a full medicinal cannabis scheme comes in. So there is some understanding of why smoked loose-leaf is in a full medicinal cannabis scheme. Let's just accept it the Minister agree move on and talk to that. I would also note that the Minister is studiously avoiding the question I put previously around smoked loose-leaf: whether in a full medicinal cannabis scheme smoked loose-leaf could be smoked in public—studiously avoiding that.Coming back to the terminal exception that you've already heard has some agreement and understanding—certainly some understanding I'll put it on our part—but studiously avoiding the issue of smoked loose-leaf in public. And I let that stand there as an ongoing question: will he allow some regulations around the smoking of loose-leaf in public? Is that such a bizarre statement to make? Is there something odd about that? If it is why is that the law in New York? Why does the New York medicinal cannabis scheme say you will not smoke loose-leaf cannabis? Thirty million to 60 million—it's one of those. It's good enough for them to say Yes we understand medicinal cannabis is important"—as do we; that's why we're here trying to progress this along but then to also say—"but we can't allow loose-leaf to be smoked in public."—for all the reasons that we have as well.There are reasons of quality. There are reasons and concerns around contamination. Cannabis is a very good plant for drawing contaminants out of the soil. In fact in a number of areas it's used for what's called phytoremediation—that is used to plant to clear the soil. That's great. It comes out of the soil into the plant—and then you smoke that? Really you're going to let that happen uncontrolled in public? We've already raised those concerns around how smoked loose-leaf in public under the Minister's full scheme will normalise the smoking of loose-leaf cannabis. We would contend there's a different forum for that discussion. That may be in the referendum; it may be in other places. But it is not and should not be under the guise of medicinal or medical need. That truly is legalisation. It is legalisation by stealth and legalisation by stealth under the guise of medical need.Some might say "Well look we need loose-leaf because of the dose-time response. It's the only way we can get a quick response." I agree: tablets and other sorts of formulations can take three or four hours sometimes even longer. Smoked loose-leaf does have a quicker hit but there are other mechanisms to achieve that and indeed through our suggestions and our Supplementary Order Papers and legislation we were talking about how you could be vaping a solution which will give you exactly the same dose-time response that would give you all the quality factors you're looking for and that in a well-manufactured regime would achieve everything you're looking for from a physiological perspective and be accessible and affordable. It was all of those things that we have created in the scheme that we are putting forward.Now some might say "Well what about Bedrocan?" Well for those of you who don't know Bedrocan's a form of standardised loose-leaf. The problem with Bedrocan is several things. First of all it's very expensive and secondly it doesn't get past some of our issues around normalising loose-leaf in the community. So again we're putting on record if we haven't already before that the National Party will not be supporting the smoking of loose-leaf cannabis in public or the smoking of loose-leaf cannabis under a full medicinal cannabis scheme. Certainly this clause here very clearly talks to that. It talks to the utensils. It all just gets scarier as you read this further. It talks to the utensils that you'll have to use. It talks to the plant and plant material. It's already a given that smoked loose-leaf is in the full scheme and now let's just talk about the merits of that: why it should be or why it shouldn't be. Very clearly we're putting a stake in the ground: we will not support the smoking of loose-leaf cannabis under the guise of a full medicinal cannabis scheme. Thank you."