13. Question No. 13—Social DevelopmentNICOLA WILLIS (National) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 13—Social Development13. NICOLA WILLIS (National) to the Minister for Social Development: How many subsidies did Work and Income pay under the childcare assistance programme in the year ended June 2019 and how does this compare with the number of subsidies paid under a National-led Government in the year ended June 2017?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): As at June 2019 there were 33072 childcare and Out of School Care and Recreation (OSCAR) subsidies including the guaranteed childcare assistance. As at June 2017 there were 42989 subsidies. A key reason that the number of childcare and OSCAR subsidies has decreased is that many families' incomes have increased under this Government. We are providing more support to families through our Families Package which is the biggest boost in household income in a decade for thousands of families. We've also increased the minimum wage rising to $18.90 as of 1 April have increased the amount people can earn before their benefit is reduced and have indexed main benefits to wage growth.Nicola Willis: Does the Minister really mean to tell struggling Kiwi families that it is a good thing that fewer of them are receiving help with childcare costs?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I do need to point out that since 2011 there has been a steady decline in those accessing childcare assistance subsidies. So it is not a new phenomenon. However I will say that childcare assistance is one of the areas that we cited in our Cabinet paper on our response to the Welfare Expert Advisory Group as one of the areas that we should be reviewing and we have highlighted it as an area that we want to investigate explore and review in our longer-term plan.Nicola Willis: Can she confirm that while the number of Kiwis on the dole is increasing her Government is overseeing a reduction in the number of families getting the childcare support that could help them stay off welfare and stay in work?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I can't confirm the numbers around that thing called the dole" because there is no such thing but what I can confirm is that actually we've got an unemployment rate of 4 percent which is the lowest that it's been in a decade. We've got a working-age population on benefit which is about 10.5 percent which is relative to every year that the previous Government were in place or better. And as I said we continue to monitor the situation and we will be reviewing childcare assistance because we recognise the importance of it.Nicola Willis: Does the Minister think that childcare costs can be a barrier for parents moving off the dole and into work and is she concerned that under Labour around 10000 fewer childcare subsidies are being paid to low-income families?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What I can confirm is that there were actually 10000 fewer childcare subsidies being paid out under the previous Government between 2011 and 2017. We recognise that there does need to be a review of childcare assistance and have outlined it really clearly in our Cabinet paper. We recognise the importance of childcare assistance with respect to supporting people into employment. I will say that we're really proud of the fact that we've put additional money into the pockets of low- and middle-income New Zealanders through our Families Package.Nicola Willis: Does she agree with Carmel Sepuloni MP who said in 2015 that "We know that at an operational level Work and Income are making it as hard as possible for parents to access their childcare subsidy entitlement." and if so is she proud of the drop in childcare subsidies on her watch?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: What I'm really proud of is that from April last year the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) engaged in a proactive programme of phoning primarily sole parent beneficiary recipients to make sure that they were getting access to their full and correct entitlement—and this is above and beyond their business as usual—and making sure that they were getting access to things like childcare assistance subsidies. The fact that it has reduced because incomes have gone up is something we do need to keep a close eye on. We do need to review childcare assistance subsidies but I'm proud of the fact that incomes have gone up under this Government.Nicola Willis: Does she agree with Carmel Sepuloni MP who said "If more people are going to work we should see some kind of increase in the number of people not on benefits receiving childcare subsidies" and if so what has she done about the drop in childcare subsidies on her watch?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: That member that she refers to was a good Opposition member and she highlighted very important issues. Can I say as I mentioned earlier that there had already been a steady decline in the take up of childcare assistance subsidies under the previous Government. We haven't been able to get on to everything that we would have liked to in the first two years but I have already indicated in the Cabinet paper that responds to the Welfare Expert Advisory Group's recommendation that it is part of our work programme—it is a commitment.Nicola Willis: Why did the Minister make such a big deal about correcting her written answer yesterday when all she did was swap the word "client" for the word "subsidies" and can she actually tell this House clearly whether more or fewer families are getting childcare support under Labour?Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know it's getting late and we want to see the end of this question time but that member has constantly got up and asked two separate questions and we don't feel like indulging her any longer. Either get a finger on the Standing Orders or don't ask the question in the first place.SPEAKER: Right. I have had requests from both sides of the House to be a little bit more flexible in my interpretation of the rules. I think it's fair to say that it's mainly been in respect of one member but has also involved members not very far away from the member who took that point of order. It is a relatively rare occurrence for the newer members of the backbench to have supplementary questions and I'm deliberately being kind to them—and a little bit loose—and I'm sure that over time they will get it right.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I thought it was important because I think it's important that we are accurate in this House and there is a difference between the number of subsidies versus the number of clients so I needed the accurate information. Can I say that I did receive 4300 written questions over the last calendar year and so I think the fact that we only had to correct one question in the House is actually something MSD and my officials can be very proud of."