Macindoe Tim: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — Second ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeMacindoe Tim: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — Second Reading[Sitting date: 28 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5351. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): Kia ora e te Mana Whakawā tēnā koe e te Whāre. Ko tēnei Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori me whakanuia e tātau![Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker greetings to you the House. This is Māori Language Week and we must celebrate it!]I am delighted that we are having this debate today and I am fervently hoping that it will lead to a new national flag that is not constantly confused with Australia’s but around which we as New Zealanders can proudly unite. It is not just because I want change for the sake of change—far from it. For me it is very personal and in many respects it relates directly to arguments that have just been put by Mr O’Rourke which I completely refute. It is because the emblem that New Zealanders unite under and most important that is on both moving and very numerous New Zealand headstones and tombstones throughout the battlefields of Western Europe is not the New Zealand flag; it is the silver fern.Darroch Ball: Why are you changing it now?TIM MACINDOE: I will come to that as well. I never met my maternal great-grandfather Hugh Francis Wright but I know three things about him. The first is that my mother loved him and admired him. The second is that he was in his day one of New Zealand’s leading mountaineers which I have to say is a talent he certainly did not pass on to this particular great-grandson. And the third is that at the outbreak of World War I he was considered too old to enlist and so even though he offered to do so he was declined on the grounds of age. But then after the devastating losses in Western Europe throughout 1914 1915 and 1916 there was a new wave of enlisters and older men were accepted for enlistment and my great-grandfather was one of them. He went and fought in the First World War and I am pleased to say returned to New Zealand at the end of it.I did not know my paternal grandfather Charles Grierson Macindoe and at the other end of the age bracket legend has it that he lied about his age and ran away at the start of the Boer War and he served there. This year on Anzac Day for the first time I proudly wore his medals on my right lapel something I had never felt I could do before but I was very proud to do. I did of course know my father and my father served in the Second World War. He was an Aircrew Allocation Centre instructor and along with his brother he served in the Pacific he was injured in an accident there and his brother carried on to Europe. My uncle whom I never met Raymond Kenneth Grierson Macindoe was killed in action just a fortnight before the end of the war—just before VE-Day. The war was virtually over and he is buried in Forli in southern Italy where he fell and the silver fern is the emblem that identifies him as a New Zealander.So for me this is very personal and for me the timing is absolutely right to be making the change in this year as we honour the legacy of all of those who have served our country in the major conflicts through to the present day because it is the silver fern that is the emblem that they fought and died under and that honours their legacy. So I utterly reject the argument that changing the flag in this year is disrespectful. Mr Mallard said it is wrong; the timing is wrong. I say: what finer way could we find to honour the legacy of those courageous New Zealanders than to honour their contribution with a change of the flag of the type I have said? So not just any change but a flag that shows what we have in common.The Union Jack reflects my heritage. Obviously with a name like Macindoe I have Scottish ancestry but I believe it is totally incongruous here in the 21st century for us as a proud and independent nation tostill have another country’s flag on our flag. The New Zealand First Party has argued against the cost of this exercise. I say to them: what cost is democracy? It may not cost as much as $26 million but put it in the context of our annual expenditure which is in the region of $73 billion. A referendum is the best way and the fairest way to consult all New Zealanders and to give them their say and I am proud that we are doing it.This is the same process to those who argue against it that New Zealanders followed about 20 years ago when we changed our electoral system from first past the post to MMP. Those members who now object so strongly to what we are doing would not be here if we had not had that exercise and they should reflect on that. Would Canada go back to its flag of pre-1965? Of course it would not. It is very proud of its maple leaf and wherever you go around the world if you see someone wearing something with the maple leaf you know either that they are Canadian or they have recently visited that country. I want the same for New Zealanders.I do not want us to be constantly confused with Australians and in many cases others and I am utterly appalled by the disingenuousness and frankly the blatant dishonesty particularly of the Labour Party which now wants to pretend to this nation that it is opposed to this process when its own 2014 election policy it said: “Labour will: … review the design of the New Zealand flag involving flag design experts and with full public consultation and involvement.” “We believe that the time has come …” said Labour “and it is right for the issue to be put to the public.” And what did Mr Andrew Little say when asked: “Should NZ change its flag: What’s your personal opinion? Should there be a referendum?” Mr Little said: “I think a referendum is a suitable way to deal with an issue that can be very polarising.”What absolute claptrap and disingenuous behaviour from Labour members now—to resile from that position purely for populist reasons. There is no principle in their argument at all and they know it. That is why their heads are down. They know that they want it and as the Prime Minister and Bill English have both said the only reason they do not support us in this debate is that we are doing it. If they were doing it they would be leading the charge and we would be supporting them. If New Zealanders reflect on this issue and I hope they will and decide to retain our current flag then I will respect their opinion but I hope that they will think about it seriously. And more important I have to say I would be very disappointed at such a lost opportunity which we will not enjoy again in our lifetime and members should reflect on that. We will not have this opportunity again in our lifetime if we do not seize it this time around.If the flag review panel—and I want to commend the members on the outstanding work that they have been doing—provides an attractive option that includes the silver fern for the reasons that I have already outlined I shall proudly vote for that option particularly to honour the legacy of our forebears including my own relatives about whom I spoke earlier in this debate.I am happy to accept the invitations that the New Zealand First Party members have challenged me to accept to go to the RSAs to meet with veterans and to have this discussion with them because I will prove to them that I honour their legacy that I do respect them that I share and understand and value all of the things that they stand for and that I want to acknowledge their sacrifice and their service with the change that we are debating today. I respect those who hold a contrary view because of their great passion for the current New Zealand flag but I utterly reject any suggestion that this is the wrong time to consider changing it. On the contrary this is the ideal time to honour the outstanding service of men and women who have served our nation. This is the ideal time to say we can have something about which we feel proud and there is an emblem that we proudly wear when we go to sporting events that we proudly see on New Zealanders who travel abroad and in a very sombre and moving way that we see as we move up and down the rows and rows of those war cemeteries of Western Europe.So I want to honour the legacy of Hugh Francis Wright of Charles Grierson Macindoe of Harley Lieman Grierson Macindoe and in particular my Uncle Ken whom I never met by making this change. I cannot more strongly commend this bill to the House.