Hide Rodney: General Debate 
Hide Rodney: General Debate 
[Volume:625;Page:20480] 
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
: 
 The question is this: can we trust Helen Clark? That is the problem that members here— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My apologies to Mr Hide. I do not like to interrupt his speeches. They are always very good and the House certainly needs to wake up after that last speech. But the senior Government whip has just indicated that we have just had two speeches from Ministers in a ministerial statement situation. If that is the case let us break the House now and go into a full ministerial statement debate on this issue as should have occurred at 2 o’clock today given the importance of the issue. I seek leave for that to happen. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member is perfectly entitled to seek leave for that to happen. It is members’ day so the member is entitled to do that. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? 
Jill Pettis 
: I was interrupted. What is the member saying? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member is seeking leave to have a debate. He is seeking leave for a ministerial statement. There is objection. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Do not misrepresent me. Do not get me wrong. I asked for leave for there to be a full debate on the issue. I can see that the Government does not want the general debate interrupted and that is fair enough. We know that it is members’ day. We know that there is now very little on the Order Paper because of the House giving leave in respect of the New Zealand First bill going ahead. We know that the House is supposed to sit until 10 o’clock tonight but in fact there is only enough business on the Order Paper to see us through until about 9. So there is a bit of room. I am suggesting and I am seeking leave for the House at the conclusion of the general debate to have a full 1-hour debate on the matter of the alleged foot-and-mouth outbreak on Waiheke Island. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. [ 
Interruption 
] I am on my feet. I just ask members to take a big deep breath and breathe through their noses. Let us have some order. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think it would be appropriate for the clock to be reset because I was just a few seconds into my speech. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Yes. It has not even started yet. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. The whole problem with this foot-and-mouth outbreak apart from the hoax and the fear is that we cannot actually trust Helen Clark. Until recently I had disagreed with her policies and her politics but I had always believed that we could trust Helen Clark. I believed that when she said something was going to happen it would happen or if she said something was true then it was true. But here is a question for the House: could Mr Peter Doone trust Helen Clark to follow due process and deal with him in an appropriate way? He found out that he could not. That is what we have found out in the last 2 weeks. We have found out that the top police officer in New Zealand could not trust Prime Minister Helen Clark. 
Let us be clear about what she did. The Prime Minister of New Zealand while considering whether to sack the top cop in New Zealand spoke to the  
Sunday Star-Times 
 and confirmed for it not once not twice but five times a false and damning story against Peter Doone. The  
Sunday Star-Times 
 said to Helen Clark: “Are you sure you’re right? Because this will cost us a lot of money if it’s wrong.” and Helen Clark said: “It’s correct. I’ve got the reports in front of me.” The following week she reconfirmed it twice. She told the editor: “You will be vindicated when I release the papers.” 
Jill Pettis 
: You’re just making it up. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Oh that is great! Jill Pettis calls out that I am just making it up. Sue Chetwin then editor of the  
Sunday Star-Times 
 lied in her statement of evidence—that is what the Labour Party is now saying. Labour is saying that the former editor of the  
Sunday Star-Times 
 swore a statement of evidence that is a lie. 
Jill Pettis 
: No the member is making it up. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Oh it is just hopeless with Jill Pettis is it not to hear what happened. That is what Helen Clark did. Then we found out in the following week that Helen Clark picked up the reports and read from them. Secret Cabinet reports were read to a journalist and here is the thing about the Prime Minister of New Zealand: she was not prepared for the public her MPs or her Ministers to know that that was what she was doing so she struck a deal with the  
Sunday Star-Times 
. She said: “I will give you the information. I will read for you the reports because this is my plan to get rid of Peter Doone”—that is what she told them—“on the basis that you say that I’ve got no comment because that wouldn’t be appropriate.” That is what Helen Clark did. She leaked the reports from Cabinet. Of course that is totally against the  
Cabinet Manual 
 which in paragraph 3.19 states that confidentiality is required. So we asked the Prime Minister about this yesterday and again today and what did she say? 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: “I can’t leak.” 
RODNEY HIDE 
: She said: “I can’t leak. By definition I can’t leak.” How does that work? Well it works like this. The  
Cabinet Manual 
 is supposed to bind all Ministers is it not I ask Mr Donnelly. All Ministers are supposed to agree but the person who enforces those rules is the Prime Minister and she says: “If I’m not prepared to enforce the rule against myself then by definition I can’t leak.” 
Well we have heard that before. Richard Nixon approved way back the Huston Plan. The Huston Plan involved Nixon going after his political enemies. Does that sound familiar? It involved wire-tapping burglary mail-opening and other black operations. Mr Huston explained to President Nixon that it was illegal and Richard Nixon approved it anyway. Then on 19 May 1977 a famous interview took place between President Nixon and David Frost and Trickie Dickie said this: “When the president does it that means it’s not illegal.” David Frost was struggling with this concept and he asked: “Do you mean by definition?” and President Richard Nixon said: “Exactly.” And that is what Helen Clark has said in this House—that the rules do not apply to her the law does not apply to her and she can do as she pleases by definition. And she lied to the  
Sunday Star-Times 
.