Newman Muriel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Newman Muriel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:14602] 
4.  
Dr MURIEL NEWMAN (Deputy Leader—ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Have there been any police reports concerning Pakistanis having improperly obtained New Zealand visas via Tonga; if so what action has been taken? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Police 
: No. The police advised the Minister that they have no information about any such conduct and that there have been no reports notwithstanding Mr Hide’s allegations to the contrary yesterday. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: Just to be clear is he saying that no police officer has written a report raising concerns that Pakistanis have been illegally entering New Zealand via Tonga? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The police have searched far and wide for any such evidence. They have found no such evidence. I challenge the member that if she has any evidence of this nature to say why has she not reported that to the police so they can follow up those allegations. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: What action has the Government undertaken since the “lying in unison” report to deal with the increased risk management issues associated with fraud and staff integrity given that between 2001 and 2003 there were 21 proven cases of fraud involving up to 49 staff and that 17 more have yet to be fully investigated? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: In so far as this relates to the Minister’s responsibilities as the Minister of Police the member may answer. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: In fact this is largely in the area of the Minister of Immigration but I can report to the member that there is now a fraud unit that has eight full-time investigators that the funding for the management of immigration risks has increased by $20 million and that enormous steps have been taken and that has resulted in a vast increase in prosecutions. 
Martin Gallagher 
: Going back to the primary question following Mr Hide’s allegations in the House yesterday that police had investigated a fraud ring allowing Pakistani nationals who paid $15000 to come to New Zealand via Tonga what have his inquiries revealed about Pakistani nationals coming to New Zealand via Tonga over the last 5 years? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have been advised that no residents or group visas have been issued in Tonga to Pakistanis over the past 5 years. In 1999-2000 three visitor visas were issued to Pakistanis but none has been issued since that time. As stated previously there has been no police investigation such as that alleged by Mr Hide in the House yesterday. Clearly his comments are without foundation. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why was his colleague Damien O’Connor making a press statement and a speech this morning on the 900 percent increase in fraud within his department when over the last 5 years in this House he and his predecessors have constantly denied that this was going on in his department; and are not the public entitled now to an apology? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: As far as the Minister of Police is concerned he can answer. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Can I just repeat to the member the information I gave previously—that another $20 million has been put into this area over recent years. There are now eight investigators and convictions have jumped by 900 percent. As Damien O’Connor said that clearly reflects improved vigilance and improved systems. 
Martin Gallagher 
: Could the Minister spell out to this House and remind this House as to what precise action individual members of Parliament should take if they come across information about conduct of a criminal nature including issues such as fraudulently obtaining visas to get into this country? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: If any member of this House has evidence of fraud or any other sort of crime I think there is an obligation on the member to report that evidence without delay to the police for investigation rather than bring unsubstantiated allegations into this House in a way that suggests that a member’s only real concern is politicking. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Minister explain the disparity between what he is saying now and what Mr O’Connor said this morning and their defences and excuses at the 2002 election when they denied all this was going on; and do the New Zealand people not expect and deserve an apology from him? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: What the various Ministers of Immigration and Police have denied have been constant unsubstantiated allegations by some members about fraud for which evidence has never been produced to the police. To the contrary every member of this Government has acknowledged that worldwide the second-biggest problem after narcotics-trafficking is people-trafficking. That is why this Government has taken so many steps in so many areas and so vastly increased resources so that this country can now be defended against that sort of thing—something that never happened under the former National Government and the National - New Zealand First coalition Government.