Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:616;Page:11909] 
3.  
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: Will she rule out Maori customary title co-existing with Crown title given her statement yesterday that “confusion has arisen” because of the term customary title? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Associate Minister of Justice) 
: 
 The confusion has arisen because there are two systems to record land titles in New Zealand: the land transfer system and a separate system devised and run by the Maori Land Court. Underlying those two systems of land title there are also common law rules relating to customary title which is also known as aboriginal or native title. The term “title” is often used interchangeably but it does have different legal meanings. As to the specific provisions of the legislation the member will have to wait until the bill is introduced to Parliament. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: If the Government has given away public domain and customary title and is retaining the High Court’s jurisdiction what is actually left of the Government’s 17 December policy? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: As I said the member will have to wait until the bill is introduced in the House to see how those matters have all been addressed. 
Mahara Okeroa 
: Will the acknowledgment of an ancestral connection to the foreshore and seabed affect the public’s right of access to the foreshore and seabed? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No. 
Dail Jones 
: When will the Minister draw to the attention of the National member Mr Mapp the well-stated principle set out in  
Adams’ Land Transfer Act 
 at page A/1115that a Maori title ordinarily speaking—it quotes land over which the Maori title has not been extinguished—is for “land beneficially owned by Maori in respect of which either by Crown grant or otherwise no estate in fee simple has been created.” That law was simple until the Te Ture Whenua Maori Act was concerned and will she also confirm that that Act was introduced by National? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I agree with the member. I think he has just made the point that this matter is not for amateurs. It is in fact quite complex. The answer is that he is right. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: Will the Minister also confirm that if no action is taken to clarify issues relating to customary title customary rights Crown title public domain etc. then the status quo that remains will be the situation as ruled upon by the Court of Appeal in June last year—namely that those matters can in part or in whole be determined by the Maori Land Court—which most New Zealanders expressed themselves to be unsatisfied with and unhappy about at that time? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The member is correct. Of course one of the remedies under the legislation that that court can award would be a fee simple title which would mean an exclusive title. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: How will the Government’s new proposals incorporate customary rights and in what way will they differ from existing customary usage of mataitai and taiapure? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The matters are different as the member has indicated. As I have said before he will have to wait until the bill is introduced to see the detail that will address that matter. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Will the Minister rule out Maori having rights to the foreshore that are not available to other New Zealanders; if not why not? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Those matters will be addressed in the bill that will be introduced into Parliament in the near future. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Maybe at some time in the future all sorts of things will be addressed. I mean in the end we will get to Judgement Day. But today is question time and I think I asked a perfectly reasonable question. The Minister is prepared to answer questions from members on the Government side of the House and is prepared to answer questions from parties that support the Government. I do not support the Government but I was asking a perfectly reasonable question: will the Government rule out Maori having special rights? That is a pretty simple question so why can she not answer it? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member makes a reasonable point and asked a reasonable question. The Minister gave a reasonable answer addressing the question. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: What form of co-management will Maori have of the seabed and foreshore in light of her statement yesterday that that idea promoted by the Minister of Maori Affairs will be incorporated in the legislation? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: That matter will be addressed in the bill that will be introduced into Parliament in the near future. 
Dail Jones 
: I seek leave of the House to table  
Adams’ Land Transfer Act 
 page A/1115. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.