Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:621;Page:16307] 
4.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: What did he have in mind when he stated that: “There’s always those possibilities” in response to an interviewer’s question asking whether it was possible that the Hon John Tamihere had done some things “that are not so honest”? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 I meant that allegations made against my colleague need investigation to see whether there is truth in them. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Has the Minister seen the statement of Mr EynonDelamere that the payment made to John Tamihere was not a golden handshake but “for some things we wanted him to achieve in Parliament” thereby suggesting that as Associate Minister of Maori Affairs he had a private arrangement with the Waipareira Trust to procure a more generous treaty fisheries settlement for that organisation in return for a payment of a cash bonus; if so would the Minister accept that arrangement as being totally proper? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I did see the press release and I did see the retraction. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I invite you to look at the last part of that question. What is it to do with the Minister of Maori Affairs’ responsibility whether a payment made to another Minister supposedly for a certain purpose and later corrected in a press statement was proper? Yes one can ask for the Minister’s opinion but it must be related to his responsibility. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister did answer the question yesterday and that is why I have allowed it today. The Hon Parekura Horomia can comment. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I did see the press release and I also read his retraction. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does the Minister stand by his answer yesterday that it is not acceptable for a Government-funded Maori trust like the Waipareira Trust to finance a Labour Party political campaign; and does he think it acceptable for one of his Ministers or colleagues to accept money from a Maori trust for a Labour Party political campaign? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Yes and no. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: To the Minister’s knowledge did his Associate Minister have direct influence on the increase from $10 million to $25 million for the development putea from the 2004 Maori fisheries settlement of which the Waipareira Trust will receive up to $5 million and was that what the trust “wanted him to achieve in Parliament” and why it paid him at least $195000? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That member was not the Minister responsible for the fishing deal and I do not understand the latter part of his question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I seek leave of the House to explain to the Minister what the question was about. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member can just repeat the last part of his question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Did Mr Tamihere directly influence the increase from $10 million to $25 million for the development putea from the 2004 Maori fisheries legislation of which the Waipareira Trust will receive up to $5 million and could that be why the trust paid him $195000 to come to Parliament? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: No. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Was the Minister on the select committee the day the former lawyer for the Waipareira Trust alleged that there were 32 forged cheques involved in respect of that trust and is that what he means by “There’s always those possibilities”; if not what was he referring to? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: All I can say is that the member can be asked questions about his responsibility as a Minister. Whether he was on a select committee is not really pertinent to this particular point. If the Minister wants to comment he can. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. He has said: “There’s always those possibilities”. That is why this question is correctly in this House because we want to know what he meant by that having regard to the primary question he was asked by the media. I am saying that here is an example where he was there as Minister and is that one of the possibilities he was referring to? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If he was there as Minister he certainly can answer that question. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I was not on the select committee. For the member’s benefit this question was preceded by my saying that John means well and he has done a whole lot of honest things. The full question—[ 
Interruption 
]—from the interviewer and this is for that member too was: “But if he’s done a whole lot of honest things is it possible that he has done some that are not so honest?”. My full response was this: “There’s always those possibilities Linda but you know certainly to be fair to myself and other colleagues in here it’s really important that we go through due process and that is beginning today.” 
Rodney Hide 
: Given that the Minister is defending his colleague John Tamihere by saying: “I think that he has done many honest things” is the Minister aware of some dishonest things that John Tamihere has done—in particular pleading guilty to two counts of forgery and uttering to obtain $160000 out of Housing New Zealand? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: No I am unashamed in supporting my colleague John Tamihere just like that member supported Donna Awatere when she was in—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not know what the member is on his feet for. I presume he wants a supplementary question. He may have one if he calls properly. 
Rodney Hide 
: I was actually doing a point of order. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. The member did not. The member made irrelevant comments that had nothing to do with it. This had better be a point of order. This is the member’s opportunity to make one. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question on the point of order was this: was the answer no because he did not think that he was doing anything dishonest? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. The Minister addressed the question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If the Minister is going to stick to the position that Mr Tamihere was not involved in increasing the putea from $10 million to $25 million how does he explain a memo from his Associate Minister to the Minister of Fisheries stating that giving effect to a bigger settlement for urban Maori which includes the Waipareira Trust was the purpose of his election; and does he now think that an increased amount from the larger putea some $5 million was why the Waipareira Trust paid Mr Tamihere $195000? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That supplementary question does not flow from the previous answer the Minister gave. The Minister gave an answer to the first part of the previous question that the Associate Minister was not responsible for the fisheries matter. He answered a blanket “No” to the second half when he was asked to answer the second half of the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I would like the member just to restate the question so I can hear it. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Just so we are very clear— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. I want to hear the question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am on a point of order at the moment. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: May I speak to it? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member may speak to it. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Dr Cullen said that the Minister answered the second part of my question. The reality is that when you suggested that I could make an explanation to Mr Horomia I simply reread the question and he did say that Mr Tamihere was not involved in the increase from $10 million to $25 million. The  
Hansard 
 record will show that very clearly. This second question follows on from that. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: What the member forgot to tell you Mr Speaker is what you said to him previously which was that the Minister should answer the second half of the question and that is what the Minister proceeded to do. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: He did. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The second half of the question asked whether Mr Tamihere had been involved in increasing the putea from the Maori fisheries settlement from $10 million to $25 million and the Minister said “No.” Surely I am entitled to ask a question when I know that that is not the case. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister did address the question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. He has not answered my question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The supplementary question that the member originally asked was in order and the Minister may answer it. If the member can repeat it I ask him to do so. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If the Minister is going to stick by his view that Mr Tamihere did not influence the increase from $10 million to $25 million in the putea as part of a Maori fisheries settlement of which the Waipareira Trust will receive up to $5 million how does he explain a memo from his Associate Minister to the Minister of Fisheries stating that increasing that amount was the purpose for which he was elected to Parliament and is that in his opinion perhaps the reason why the Waipareira Trust paid him $195000 to come here? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: In reply to the first part of the member’s question Mr Tamihere did not have that influence directly. In relation to the second part it is well known that John Tamihere has a long history of pushing urban issues and speaking up for them—the same as a whole lot of other members in this House. He is a good member representing his constituents’ needs. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Which other Maori MP in the Government coalition has had nearly as much effect in attempting to introduce what some call “post-box tribalism”—that is an urban authority regardless of where one was originally born or one’s family—which is surely underscored by the letter that the deputy leader of the National Party recited; so how can the Minister reconcile what he has just said with the facts? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I recall a time back when Mr Tamihere was challenging traditional leadership. He has moved through and he is consistent with that. I am quite comfortable in reconciling what I said to that member opposite. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the memo from the Associate Minister of Maori Affairs John Tamihere to the Minister of Fisheries the Hon Pete Hodgson in which he states that he was elected to Parliament to effectively increase the amount of payment to urban Maori. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.