English Bill: Mixed Ownership Model Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
English Bill: Mixed Ownership Model Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Sitting date: 19 June 2012. Volume:681;Page:3052. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Prime Minister) 
: 
 It is good to speak to Part 1 of the Mixed Ownership Model Bill. What the previous speaker David Shearer said about prices is just nonsense. Does he seriously believe that hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders are systematically paying more for their electricity than they could? 
Grant Robertson 
: Yes they are. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: So most New Zealanders are stupid? That theory relies on Labour’s belief that most New Zealanders are stupidly paying 13 percent more for their power than they could if they just chose to pay less. It is just rubbish. 
Through this debate and this Committee stage there is one question that the Labour Party has to answer and until it answers that question its criticism cannot be taken seriously. It is this: if it is elected in 2014 will it borrow $7 billion from foreigners to buy the energy companies back? That is the only question that matters. You see the question is this: can those members persuade themselves about their arguments against the sale? I know they are trying to persuade the public but can they persuade themselves? Can David Shearer who I think is actually not too worried about these sales persuade David Parker who is totally opposed to them? Can they persuade themselves their arguments are so strong that in the middle of the European crisis and global uncertainty they will say to the public that the most important thing a new Labour Government is going to do is borrow $7 billion from foreign lenders to buy back the energy companies? Because until they make that commitment their arguments are meaningless. Until they make that commitment their arguments are meaningless. 
They can say whatever they like about power prices but do they believe that enough to borrow $7 billion from foreign lenders and start paying them interest so that they can lower power prices? If they believe that selling these companies is fiscally bad will they borrow $7 billion from foreign lenders—to whom we are one of the most indebted countries in the world already; we are already one of the most indebted countries in the world to foreign lenders—who are losing money all over Europe and are worried about global instability in a way they have not been in a generation? Labour gives the impression that it might but it has not actually said so. You know what I think? I think come the end of this debate during the leader’s third reading speech David Shearer is going to make a call which will be a change. He is going to make a call in his third reading speech that Labour will buy these assets back and if he does not say that then Labour has no credibility on this argument— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. This is a wide-ranging debate but I have never heard it allowed in this or in any other Parliament with similar rules where you can get up and say the same old thing 10 times over. 
Hon Parekura Horomia 
: That’s right—15. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: The same thing repeated 10—no 15 times. Surely we are required to have a debate here and for him to say something new after 4 minutes. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Order! Points of order are to be heard in silence. Can I say it is a debatable issue and the public will judge the speech. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: At least one Labour member is unpersuaded by the argument: David Clark MP who said on TV last week that buying these assets back is “not off the table”. So he is not persuaded by David Shearer and I expect that not many of the others are either actually. That is what we are waiting for at the end of this debate: Labour’s undertaking to borrow $7 billion. You see we would rather pay dividends to New Zealanders; Labour would rather pay interest to foreign banks. We want to pay dividends to New Zealand mums and dads; Labour wants to pay interest to foreign offshore multinational banks. That is its policy. Well that is its policy until it changes. Until it changes that is its policy. Of course what those members could do is agree not to buy them back which would be the logical thing to do and I expect the ground is starting to shift now. I expect their leader will not say that in his third reading speech and they will hope that over the next 18 months it just kind of slips away so they do not have to commit to borrowing $7 billion from foreign multinational—