Webb DuncanDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. The Labour Party will also be supporting this bill to go to select committee not because it's some great leap forward in respect of waste minimisation and as the honourable member and Associate Minister for the Environment Eugenie Sage noted there's far more to be done.I congratulate the member Scott Simpson on getting his bill drawn. I wonder if perhaps he's a little disappointed that what he appears to have thrown in quickly one night has actually been drawn when he had so much more opportunity to do greater things here. I mean is this a bill about the environment? Is this a bill about improving our environment? Or is it a classic National Party bill which further criminalises and increases penalties as a knee-jerk reaction to some problem? I expect it's the latter. It may be that Thames-Coromandel District Council said to the member Oh look we'd like to be able to slam those fellows those tourists those freedom campers or whatever with a bit more of a fine if they throw their rubbish out of the window. Bang—let's up the fine." And there's no evidence whatsoever—there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever—that by increasing the fine it will reduce littering.In fact what we have seen is that even with the $400 fine it's barely ever used. It's barely ever used. And do you know what? By increasing the fine litter officers will be less likely to use it. So what we have is simply a knee-jerk reaction. But look what we can agree on to my friends across the House is that we need a society which recognises that littering is a bad thing and we need to address it. I'm hopeful that at select committee we'll be able to go a bit further than "remove $400 and insert $1000" because you know what? We've got massive issues. Of all the things we could've addressed—we could have addressed plastic straws and plastic bottles. We could have addressed the 60 million cigarette filters that are thrown away and don't decompose in our lifetime. But no we simply increase a fine.I wonder if the member even actually took the trouble to read the Act because he talks about needing these fines. Well did he actually realise that there is a fine for up to $20000 for littering and up to $30000 where there is a public danger there? So where there are these truly egregious cases—go and have a look at section 15 in the Act. I can see the look on his face: "Oh really?" I'm sorry it's there. Go back and have a look. If someone leaves a car body on your Invercargill beach member Dowie then you can actually charge them convict them in a court of law and they have to pay up to $30000—so there you go. We've got a knee-jerk deterrent here and it's simply not going to work. But look at select committee I'm hopeful we will be able to improve it a little and enter into this discussion about it.The other thing to remember is that in terms of the education—it actually used to be called the Litter Control Council but it's now Keep New Zealand Beautiful—you've got an organisation there. The function of that organisation is to advocate for the reduction of litter. So what we need is much more education so that that 8.4 metres that member Russell referred to will in fact—people will not only walk further to the bin; they'll pick up other people's rubbish and put it there too. We know that we do have a fantastic country and whether it be the beaches of Coromandel or Invercargill or even the windswept beaches of Brighton in Christchurch we don't want the litter there.So look I do commend the member for touching on something which is close to the hearts of New Zealanders and we do want to ensure that litter goes where it should. But as the Associate Minister mentioned it really is not so much about where we put our litter; it's about not creating it in the first place. So I look forward to having that discussion about education about regulating what kind of materials are produced so that they can be biodegradable about properly funding our anti-litter council—our Keep New Zealand Beautiful organisation—and really addressing these matters at their heart and not another knee-jerk reaction of upping a penalty because that's what the other side do. But let's have the discussion. Let's get on with it. And let's keep New Zealand beautiful. Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker."