Turei Metiria: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeTurei Metiria: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 28 April 2015. Volume:704;Page:2908. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green)to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Acting Prime Minister):Yes in the context in which they were made.Metiria Turei: Why did the Prime Minister not rule out doing a trade deal with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) should ISIL become a State and form a Government?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I am unaware of such a statement.Metiria Turei: Why do beheadings by ISIL mean that the Prime Minister will send troops to fight them but beheadings in Saudi Arabia mean he leads a trade delegation there?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation that conducts diplomatic and trade relationships with the whole world including many developed countries. ISIL is a self-declared terrorist organisation that has set out to destroy the nation States that it chooses to try to inhabit and invade. If the Greens cannot tell the difference between ISIL and Saudi Arabia then it probably would be a good idea to do a bit more homework.Metiria Turei: When the Prime Minister said: “New Zealand is not going to turn the other way. We’re actually going to stand up for human rights…” is that consistent with sending a trade delegation to a country where women cannot leave the house without a male relative cannot drive and cannot vote in the elections?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Yes it is. New Zealand chooses to trade with a number of countries that have different views about human rights than we do. In fact it is the case that when you read the UN reports on human rights in New Zealand we probably would not trade with ourselves if we felt that we were going to adopt a pure standard of moral high ground. In the case of say China and Indonesia—particularly in Indonesia where there is a very topical issue right now—it is our view that continuing to conduct relationships with these countries and trade with them is more likely to have an impact on their human rights views than having nothing to do with them.Metiria Turei: Does the Prime Minister still believe that it is acceptable for Governments to lash women for being raped and behead people for being homosexual because “they are taking it against their own citizens”?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Of course it is not acceptable and trading with them is not an endorsement of the criminal punishment system in Saudi Arabia.Metiria Turei: Does the Prime Minister consider the lashing of rape victims to be a gross human rights violation or to quote him a “human rights discrepancy”?Hon BILL ENGLISH: The Greens will eventually I think learn that you can influence people without lecturing them. Of course the Prime Minister is going to Saudi Arabia to carry out constructive discussions about securing a trade agreement which will help to lift incomes in New Zealand and deal with some of the poverty problems that the Greens consistently point out. We have the opportunity to raise human rights issues with the Saudi Arabian Government consistently through ongoing dialogue as we do in a formal way with the Chinese Government and others. The Prime Minister of course is going to conduct himself appropriately to achieve what is in the best interests of New Zealand as well as influencing the Saudi Arabian Government although I have to say that it is unlikely that views he holds about the issues the member raises are going to lead to significant change in the Saudi culture.Metiria Turei: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was an answer to a question but not to mine.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I listened very carefully to the question and to the answer. The question has been addressed.Metiria Turei: Will the Prime Minister live our values on the international stage and delay signing a free-trade agreement with Saudi Arabia until it commits to meeting its own obligations under the human rights conventions that it has signed such as the convention against torture and the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No he will not be following the Greens’ advice on this. If we were to pursue that course of action we would have a great deal fewer free-trade agreements than we have. As I have said part of New Zealand’s values is that actually we talk to people and if we continue to trade with them we may be able to influence them more than if as a small country at the end of the world we decide to have nothing to do with them.