Norman Russel: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 25 March 2015. Volume:704;Page:2572. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]6.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green)to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Does he stand by the Prime Minister’s answer that it is “misinformation” that New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions have increased by 20 percent between 2008 and 2012; if so by what percentage did New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions increase between 2008 and 2012?Hon SIMON BRIDGES (Acting Minister for Climate Change Issues):Yes I stand by the Prime Minister’s statement in the context in which it was made. The member has been highly selective with his data.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There were two legs to the primary question.Mr SPEAKER: Can I invite the member now to repeat the second leg to that question and we will expect an answer.Dr Russel Norman: If so by what percentage did New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions increase between 2008 and 2012?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was not the second half of that question.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The question is on notice. There are two parts to it: does the Minister stand by the Prime Minister’s comment and he answered yes; and then the second part is “if so by what percentage did New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions increase between 2008 and 2012?”. I invite the Minister to answer.Hon SIMON BRIDGES: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That is not what he said but I will answer the question—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I invited the member to repeat just the second part of the question because the Minister—[Interruption] Order!—failed to answer the question in his first attempt. I am now inviting the Minister to answer the question.Hon SIMON BRIDGES: The reality is that there was a significant reduction in the rate of deforestation with the introduction of the emissions trading scheme in 2008. Focusing only on the trend of fluctuations in net emissions between 5 years is misleading. If the member looked at net emissions in 2012 they were approximately at the same level as they were in 2007.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was on notice. It is a very simple question. The Minister has still not addressed the question.Mr SPEAKER: No I think the Minister has addressed it. Whether there is accuracy in the answer that he has given he has addressed it and he quoted I think effectively stable emissions over that period of time. If the member wants to make more progress he now does that by using supplementary questions.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Sorry to take your time again. The Minister referred to the period 2007 to 2012. The question is on notice. It is very specific. It is 2008 and 2012.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I appreciate the point the member is now making. The way forward is that I will allow the member an additional supplementary question.Hon SIMON BRIDGES: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The issue we have here is that effectively what the member has done is ask two questions in one question. I have answered a question that he has asked in his initial question. You have then asked him to ask again the second limb and in fact I have had a go at that question. With the greatest respect that was not what he asked but in any event the tape will show that.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have heard enough from the Minister. The member has a perfect right to ask a primary question with two legs to it. In the first instance the Minister made no attempt whatsoever to answer the second part of that question. I invited the Minister to do so. There is some discrepancy now around the years that he used and that becomes a debatable item. The question has certainly been addressed by the Minister—not to the satisfaction of Dr Russel Norman. I have allocated an additional question to Dr Russel Norman and Dr Noman can now proceed with those questions.Dr Russel Norman: Can the Minister now please answer the second leg in the primary question which is: by what percentage did New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions increase between 2008 and 2012?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: Yes but the member is being tricky. He is being entirely selective with—Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This was a very simple non-political question. The Minister immediately attacked the questioner. It is a very simple question.Mr SPEAKER: I do not think it is a non-political question but it would be helpful if the Minister could simply address the question to the best of his abilities.Dr Russel Norman: By what percentage did New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions increase between 2008 and 2012?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: As the member has said by 20 percent but he is being highly selective with his data to the point of being misleading. He is trying to arbitrarily line up climate figures with electoral cycles when in fact emissions have no regard to that. Over the 5 to 6 year period to 2012 emissions are broadly the same. Net emissions that we are seeing today are really as a result of sustainable harvesting and then replanting over a 28-year cycle and that is where we are at today. We are seeing harvesting but we will see replanting.Dr Russel Norman: So for clarity the Minister is now agreeing that New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That question is just going to lead to disorder as the member sees. The Minister has clearly given an answer. It has taken some time to get it but the member now has the answer. So—[Interruption] Order! I would appreciate it if the member would sit down. If the member can now proceed with his questioning without a repeat of the answer—he has got the answer he has been wanting. He should now proceed with further supplementary questions that are in line with the Standing Orders.Dr Russel Norman: Given that the Minister has said in his answer that there was a 20 percent increase in New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions from 2008 to 2012 does he accept any responsibility for that increase in emissions?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: The Minister is responsible for climate policy in this country and what we have seen actually as a great marker for success is emission intensity reducing over time in this country which is precisely what you would want to see in a country with effective settings. I repeat that what the member has been doing is being tricky with the data and the facts.Dr Russel Norman: With regard to the Minister’s answer is he responsible for the increase in New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions since he has been in Government—and the key markers for that would be the year before he was in Government 2008 and the last year for which we have official data which is 2012?Mr SPEAKER: Order! The question I will not rule out but again the member needs to understand the level of disorder that will be created. The effect of the question is whether the Minister is accepting responsibility for that particular increase in net greenhouse gas emissions.Hon SIMON BRIDGES: The Minister is responsible for climate change policy. The member is being trickier than Winston Peters on a bad day. The figures here over a 5 or 6-year period to the latest figures in 2012 are flat. They are the same.Dr Russel Norman: Does the Minister believe he is achieving the Government’s own stated objective of reducing New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions when over the years that he has been in Government 2008-12 comparing those 2 years the net greenhouse gas emissions have increased by 20 percent according to his own Government statistics?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: Yes absolutely. We have a comprehensive emissions trading scheme one of the best if not the best in the world. We show global leadership internationally in a wide variety of areas which the member knows whether it is the Global Research Alliance whether it is fossil fuel subsidy reform or whether it is the Climate and Clean Air Coalition—I could go on. We also in terms of our complementary measures do a host of things in this country over and above what many other countries do. But as I have made quite clear to the member in a direct response to his question we are part of a sustainable forestry cycle over a 28-year period. Right now what we are seeing is sustainable harvesting and that explains almost entirely the figures he wants to cherry-pick and be misleading with.Dr Russel Norman: Why have New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions increased so dramatically by 20 percent under this Government? Is it because the Government fundamentally weakened the emissions trading scheme resulting in close to a zero price for carbon and hence incentivising the cutting down of—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That question is now out of order. It is simply too long. I have warned this member on many many occasions. He must abide by the Standing Orders. He needs to refer to Standing Order 380. Questions must be concise. They are not an opportunity to raise a debating issue like that. They are not an opportunity to effectively have the general debate before question time finishes.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Is this relitigating a point I have just made?Dr Russel Norman: No it is a different one.Mr SPEAKER: A fresh point of order—Dr Russel Norman.Dr Russel Norman: You have repeatedly during this session said that if my questions cause disorder then you will say that that is a problem. The disorder comes because Mr Brownlee starts shouting in Parliament instead of—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. The disorder comes because the question is simply too long and it is full of imputation and allegations. If the member would go back to his office and practise asking short concise questions he would make far more progress in question time.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That same ruling or Standing Order applies to answers Mr Speaker and I would ask that you apply the same ruling to answers particularly from Mr Joyce. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is a reasonable point. Where I allow longer answers is when I get a very long lengthy question with a lot of political innuendo. But generally speaking answers should also as the Hon David Parker pointed out be in accordance with the Standing Orders.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: A fresh point of order?Hon David Parker: Yes there is. That is an explanation sometimes in respect of Opposition questions but the length is also apparent in Government members’ own questions to their own Ministers.Mr SPEAKER: I will address it on the occasion.Dr Russel Norman: Does he accept that if the rest of the world followed New Zealand’s example by increasing greenhouse gas emissions net emissions by 20 percent then we would fry the planet and leave our children an unlivable future?Hon SIMON BRIDGES: What we have seen there in the talk of frying and in fact in the whole line of questioning here is the member seeking to scare people with petty politics and misinformation on what are issues that need to be taken with care and responsibility. That has been the approach of this Government on this issue. That is why we have kept an emissions trading scheme that is one of the best if not the best in the world. That is why we have shown international leadership in a host of areas where we have comparative answers and do much more than I think any country of our size or many countries of our size certainly and that is why in terms of a host of—Metiria Turei: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was an exact example of an extremely lengthy answer to a concise question.Mr SPEAKER: It was but again it followed a very long politically phrased question from Dr Russel Norman even though I repeat my many requests for him to abide by the Standing Orders.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. I am not prepared to entertain any more discussion on this. If the member has a fresh point of order I will hear it. [Interruption] Order! If it is not a fresh point of order I will be asking the member to leave the Chamber.Dr Russel Norman: Yes it is Mr Speaker. It is the question of when we ask very straightforward questions—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. I have warned the member that we are not relitigating this matter in Parliament today. I have given very clear rulings.