Hutchison Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hutchison Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:625;Page:20665] 
9.  
Dr PAUL HUTCHISON (National—Port Waikato) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Does she stand by her statement “people are not culled. They are sent to their general practitioners to be monitored” and can she explain the difference to the thousands of patients who have been removed from waiting lists? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Associate Minister of Health) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Health 
: Yes the Minister does stand by that statement. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: How can the Minister deny that people are not culled but are instead monitored; or is she denying the word of Mrs Peggy Griffiths an orthopaedic patient culled from the Counties-Manukau waiting list in April who said: “I’m sitting here in agony. I can’t even get across the floor. The devastating letter came from Counties-Manukau with absolutely no instructions regarding if I would be monitored how I would be monitored or when I would be monitored.”? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Under this Government patients are either given surgery or advised that based on resources and their condition they will not or will not yet be able to access publicly funded services. Under the previous National Government people were placed on waiting lists to wait and wait— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I cannot hear the member’s answer and I am sure others in the Chamber could not either. Would members please just lower the level of interjection. Barracking is not interjection. I ask the Minister to repeat the answer please. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Under this Government patients are either given surgery or advised that based on resources and their condition they will not or will not yet be able to access publicly funded services. Under the previous National Government people were placed on waiting lists to wait and wait with no idea of where when or even whether they would be able to access surgery. In fact it was so ridiculous that the member who asked this question sent a letter to the Hon Annette King about someone who had been on a waiting list for knee surgery for 12 years. That has gone. 
Steve Chadwick 
: How has this Government’s policy of providing New Zealanders with clarity and certainty on elective services been received? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: If the polling data on managing the health system is a measure then those changes have been received very well. Alternatively members could take a look at the view of a number of groups. I instance Age Concern which years ago pleaded for honesty and clarity in the system. This Government has delivered just that. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Is the Minister aware that Christchurch Hospital’s emergency department reportedly sees hundreds of waiting list patients seeking urgent attention for conditions such as gallstones and hernias and will the Government provide one-off funding so that those taxpayers can have their surgery performed in public hospitals rather than having to rely on the charity hospital; if not why not? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The member is apparently unaware of a series of one-off funding initiatives to reduce the waiting times for certain types of surgery. For example in the last Budget the Hon Annette King announced funding that will see the number of orthopaedic surgical procedures rise by 100 percent over 4 years. Just the week before last the same Minister put more money into the budget that will see cataract surgery rise by 50 percent over 4 years. This Government does get on with making sure that New Zealanders have good access to our health system. 
Heather Roy 
: How does the Minister explain her own waiting list figures which show that 15 people have been waiting in Labour’s hidden category of active review since Bill English was the Minister of Health; or is it her view that that is still Bill English’s fault? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I am afraid that I do not have to hand any data about an active review list or whatever it was but I would be happy to answer the member’s question if she would like to approach me with a written question. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister may have come to the House unprepared but preparation was not required to answer that question. He was just asked in respect of the fact that 15 people have been waiting since Bill English’s time whether he took responsibility for that or whether we are all to believe that it is the National Party’s fault. He does not need any data for that; it is just a simple statement. He should let us know the answer. Is he taking responsibility or are we to blame the National Party? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister did address the question. The point of order is therefore not a valid one in this context. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I ask you then for a ruling on behalf of the Opposition in particular. How appropriate is it when we are allocated a question to ask the Minister a perfectly acceptable oral question and to have him simply acknowledge the question by asking the member to submit it to him in writing. Surely he should now take that request as a request made in this House and provide that information to the member without the member having to ask a written question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member for his intervention. I am sure that that is exactly what will happen. An answer that is specific to the question that was asked will after preparation be given by the Minister. If it is not undoubtedly the Speaker will be approached. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Does the Minister deny that senior Ministry of Health officials such as David Geddis have informed district health boards and orthopaedic surgeons that they must actively manage their waiting lists—which means culling—or they may not receive funding for the orthopaedic initiative such instruction being tantamount to bribery and an interference with ethical behaviour? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I really do not know what the member is on about with that question. I would have thought that the active management of waiting lists was a good idea and that doubling the number of orthopaedic procedures over the next 3 years would be an even better one. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Does the Minister blame those orthopaedic surgeons who are refusing to compromise their duty to patients and who simply will not be told to remove them from the waiting list or to use the deceptive coercive techniques that she is making the ministry use so that the Government’s waiting list looks good? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I had the pleasure of attending an orthopaedic surgeons’ meeting about 2 or 3 weeks ago during which time I spoke with a number of orthopaedic surgeons all of whom are delighted with the attention that this Government is giving to orthopaedic surgery and none of whom seemed to come up with the grizzle that that member wanted to drop in the House. 
Heather Roy 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the Minister of Health’s own waiting list figures showing that 15 people have been waiting in the hidden category of active review for 54 to 59 months or longer. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is; it will not be tabled. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The first point of order I wish to bring up relates to the statement by Minister Hodgson that a patient was on the waiting list for 12 years. I have since been informed that that patient who Minister King and Minister Hodgson claimed was waiting for 12 years had in actual fact no need for surgery by the end of the 1990s but has over the last 3 years been unable to get surgery and is still unable to get his definitive surgery date. Would Minister Hodgson like to reconsider his statement? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: We thank the member for the additional information but that was not a point of order. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You ruled that the Minister answered Heather Roy’s question when he said he would need to get the information and would get back to her if she put the question down as a written question. Heather Roy then did the appropriate thing which was to seek to table the information for the benefit of the Minister and indeed of the House. We are now in the perplexing situation where the Government denied leave for that information to be tabled and so that is the precise muddle that the House is in. The Minister will not answer the question because he has not got the information. We are now not allowed to table the information because the Government does not want to see it. I have to say having seen the information that I can understand why the Government wants to keep it secret. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member can give the information to the Minister who has given his word to respond to it. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: I seek leave to table three papers. The first is a letter from Counties-Manukau District Health Board dated 3 May 2005 stating that Mrs P Griffiths is removed from the waiting list and showing no evidence whatsoever of how or when she will be monitored. 
Document not tabled. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: The second is the latest surgical waiting list from the Ministry of Health which shows 23129 patients were waiting for longer than 6 months in November 2004 increasing to 25960 in March this year. 
Document not tabled. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: The third is an article from the Christchurch 
 Press  
dated 14 May 2005 entitled “Study urged on waiting list cull effects” and stating 
Professor Laurence Malcolm is urging the Canterbury District Health Board to investigate the impact of striking thousands of patients from the waiting lists. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table the press release. Is there any objection? Yes there is. It will not be tabled. 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Can Dr Hutchison assure the House that he has the permission of the woman whom he is quoting in that letter to table it here in the House? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order but— 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: I assure the House that that is the case.