Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:620;Page:15955] 
5.  
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Housing 
: Does Housing New Zealand Corporation have a “two-world view” of the Treaty of Waitangi; if so what two views of the world does Housing New Zealand Corporation have? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Housing) 
: 
 No the corporation does not have a “two-world view” of the Treaty of Waitangi. The corporation simply acknowledges that different people have different ways of looking at the world often based on their distinct culture traditions and beliefs. As a public service the corporation must be responsive to all New Zealanders. 
Rodney Hide 
: Did the Housing New Zealand Corporation chief executive officer Helen Fulcher test with him the statements: “… the two treaty partners have different ways of looking at the world including beliefs values and experience.” and: “By looking from both of these perspectives we can develop a two-world view for the Corporation …” as she said she would in her email dated 11 August 2003; and does he support the Housing New Zealand Corporation’s “two-world view”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: No those particular statements have not been tested with me. The chief executive of course has the right to organise her department as she would like in terms of everyday operations. Do I support the department’s “two-world view” of the Treaty of Waitangi? As I said in my principal answer there is no “two-world view” of the Treaty of Waitangi. Do I support the department understanding that different cultures traditions and beliefs may lead to different ways of looking at the world? Yes. Indeed in this Parliament for example we have the ACT party: it has a shrinking world view but it has a world view. 
Georgina Beyer 
: Given the Minister’s answer to the primary question what impact does this issue have on how the Housing New Zealand Corporation responds to tenants? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: All New Zealanders are treated the same in terms of the housing allocation and the rights and responsibilities that go with being a tenant. The social allocation system which is used to determine eligibility is blind to ethnicity. It is all about housing need. It simply means that the corporation acknowledges that different people may have different needs values and so on. As a public service it needs to be responsive to those matters and that benefits everyone. 
Katherine Rich 
: If the Housing New Zealand Corporation is not flirting with the idea of having a “two-world view” then why do official documents from the corporation point out that the risks of adopting a “two-world view” include “espousing a two-world view approach and practising Crown dominance approach when the pressure is on” and “failing to handle positively unhelpful media interest and attack when it comes”; and will the corporation’s “two-world view” go the way of the Community Employment Group the Social Entrepreneur Fund and closing the gaps if the issue becomes too hot for the Minister? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: That is one world view but as I said in my principal answer there is no “two-world view” of the Treaty of Waitangi. However the department does intend to ensure that it responds to the needs of all New Zealanders. Quite often those needs are based upon different traditions values and beliefs. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does the Housing New Zealand Corporation have a “two-world view” culture as detailed in a paper to the board dated 28 May 2003 by the chief executive Helen Fulcher; the general manager of strategic services Jordan Alexander; and Tony Spelman the project manager of a Maori capability plan? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I was not at the board meeting for the discussion but the member might like to know that of course the department has a policy of looking at the world from different cultural perspectives so that it can provide different ways of approaching housing. But that makes no difference to the allocation of housing which is blind to ethnicity. People get it on the basis of need. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Just a minute: is this a supplementary question? 
Rodney Hide 
: It is a point of order. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: What about? 
Rodney Hide 
: The answer. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The answer perfectly addressed the question. What is the point of order? 
Rodney Hide 
: Oh well I will ask another question but it is hopeless here. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Supplementary question Rodney Hide. 
Rodney Hide 
: Is the Minister saying that the board of the Housing New Zealand Corporation has rejected the proposal for a “two-world view” within the corporation or is he saying that he does not know about it? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I am saying that no the board has not rejected that point of view. What I am pointing out is that the board and the Housing New Zealand Corporation accept that there are different ways of looking at the world. The ACT view for example is shrinking but valid and respected in this House. The board and the corporation respect that there are different points of view and they accept that as part of the way they operate the business. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: Can the Minister explain to the House why under the Housing New Zealand Corporation’s “two-world view” policy the allocation of priority housing status is provided to Maori applicants “with affiliation to a marae”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I need to be very clear that the housing allocation system within the Housing New Zealand Corporation is based upon need and is blind to ethnicity. However the department does respond to quite different needs in the way it approaches housing needs around the country. It may be that on occasion it works with a local marae in relation to its housing. 
Rodney Hide 
: I am sorry; I might have jumped in a bit early. I will do this now because it will help the Minister. I seek the leave of the House to table an email from the chief executive officer Helen Fulcher dated 11 August 2003 where she sets out the “two-world view” and how she is— 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Rodney Hide 
: I seek leave to table two documents dated 28 May 2003 and 30 January 2003 that update the board of the Housing New Zealand Corporation on the development of the “two-world view”. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those two documents. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rodney Hide 
: I seek leave to table the induction programme for professional development within the Housing New Zealand Corporation for new staff which includes the lesson plan for the “two-world view” that the Minister has just denied. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that plan. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is this another supplementary question? We would like to have the supplementary questions before we have the tabling. The member made a mistake. Dr Muriel Newman wants a supplementary question and she can have it. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: What is the Minister’s response to the Housing New Zealand Corporation’s plan under its “two-world view” strategy to provide “interest free loans to hapu/iwi to establish their own rental portfolios”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The member will be aware that over a long period of time there has been such a thing as multiple ownership of Maori land. When we are dealing with that land we quite often work with the owners so that they can build new houses. 
Katherine Rich 
: I seek leave to table a Housing New Zealand Corporation internal capability plan that sets out the risks and benefits of implementing a “two-world view”. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that plan. Is there any objection? There is.