Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:624;Page:19551] 
2.  
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: What basis did she have for stating that Ian Wishart’s interview with John Tamihere “seems to me like the product of a long liquid lunch” and does she stand by her statement? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 On the basis of reading the transcript; and yes. 
Rodney Hide 
: Notwithstanding the Prime Minister’s claim about excessive alcohol what is her response to John Tamihere’s claim in the interview that this Labour Government is run by anti-family homosexuals and trade unionists who do nothing but plot and plan and double-cross their coalition partners? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I suggest the member gets some new glasses and examines the quality of our front bench. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Has the Prime Minister seen Mr Tamihere’s reference to “ministerial klingons” and to the Hon Steve Maharey and others as “very smarmy very clever but no substance” and does she understand that many New Zealanders are very grateful to Mr Tamihere for providing those revealing insights into her ministerial colleagues which were gained from his privileged vantage point in her Cabinet in recent years? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Yes I have seen the statements. I note that Mr Tamihere referred to a number of his colleagues as very clever unlike Brian Connell’s reference to the Leader of the Opposition as “stupid”. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Prime Minister please reconcile these two events: Lianne Dalziel being told to go home for allegedly not telling the truth and John Tamihere being told to go home for irrefutably telling the truth? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: In recent months I have been in the House when members of the Opposition have refused to believe that anything Mr Tamihere says is true. I find the change of attitude very remarkable. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does the Prime Minister stand by her statement that John Tamihere in his interview defamed Ministers and her Beehive staff and will she take this opportunity to point out exactly what statements made by Mr Tamihere in his frank and candid interview are false? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have no doubt that the reference to my deputy as duplicitous and one who sets out to deceive is defamatory but we all have broader shoulders than to rush off to court unlike some people. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Has the Prime Minister seen the statement by John Tamihere that her chief of staff Heather Simpson wanted him “in the tent as damaged goods” and can she confirm that that has been the strategy pursued by her office with regard to Mr Tamihere and also with regard to the Hon George Hawkins? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I cannot confirm any such thing. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I call the Rt Hon Winston Peters. [ 
Interruption 
] Members will leave the Chamber if they speak when a member is asking a question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Which of the allegations made by Mr Tamihere are untrue and which of the allegations are true but unbearable; and does she not agree that honesty is the best policy in politics so why is John Tamihere not being promoted back into Cabinet? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I do not intend to seek an unlimited period of speaking time to answer that question. The article frankly is drivel. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I of course seek leave for the Prime Minister to have as long as she needs in order to go through the article and explain to us which bits are true and which bits are not. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. I am sorry was the member seeking leave or just making a comment? 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I cannot seek leave. I am inviting the Prime Minister to seek unlimited time to explain which parts of the Tamihere article are untrue and which parts are true. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order as the member knows. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: In the absence of the Prime Minister’s desire to articulate what the allegations were and are I seek leave now to articulate them for the benefit of the House and the country. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for the member to articulate further on the questions he has been asking. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection so the member’s request for leave is declined. 
Rodney Hide 
: In light of the Prime Minister’s answers what part of the following statement made by Mr Tamihere is false: “… Helen has been brutalised by people who have called her lesbian no children and all the rest of it. Her key adviser Heather Simpson is a butch and a lot of her support systems are Maryann Street and so on and she’s very comfortable in that world and comfortable with it. I’m not.”? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Prime Minister addressed the question. Both the questions and the comments were out of order. We will now get on with the answer to the question.  
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Only last week Mr Hide to his credit defended a man against allegations that at that time appeared to be based on homophobia. I am surprised that he would ask the sort of question he has asked in the House today. I speak in this House as someone who has been happily married for 23½ years and who has never been brutalised by anybody. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. That is the second time that someone has made an allegation in respect of my raising the issue of Jim Peron in this House—today by the Prime Minister and prior to that by Mr Rodney Hide. I do not think that anyone who read the  
Sunday Star-Times  
on Sunday could have any view other than the one I have and I now ask the Prime Minister to withdraw and apologise. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: It is most certainly a point of order. I have clearly taken offence as you should have Madam Speaker on my behalf. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Prime Minister did not refer to the member in her answer to the question. She raised an issue that has been raised in the House but she did not make specific reference to the member. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: With respect Madam Speaker— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Does the member specifically take offence at the inference that was made? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I think that is rather obvious for I have proven my point to the satisfaction of you and those people up there. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry but what was the member saying? I did not quite understand his point. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I have proven my point about the rightness of my course of action in respect of that man called Jim Peron to the satisfaction now of everybody in the press gallery and of all my detractors including the Prime Minister on that matter. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I listened very carefully to what the Prime Minister said. The Prime Minister said that Mr Hide had defended a person against an accusation that appeared at that time to be made on the grounds of homophobia. Of course the member subsequently produced more evidence on that matter. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I rule that there was no direct personal reflection on the member in the answer. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Point of order— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Is the member addressing the point of order on which I have ruled? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I am asking for clarification as to how you can distinguish between a clear reference allied to a person’s name which the Prime Minister raised and linked to Mr Hide’s allegation last week and the member not taking offence at what the Prime Minister just said. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member can of course raise the matter but the fact remains that there was no direct personal reference to the member. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Prime Minister at no time addressed my question which asked what in John Tamihere’s allegation was wrong. We heard from the Prime Minister earlier that everything in the article was wrong but that she had no time to go through it point by point. I make the point that the allegation was not made by me; it was actually made by a former Minister in her Cabinet and a member of the Labour Party. I simply asked given that she had said that the article was wrong which parts of it were wrong. Instead I got a diatribe that was something about myself. I just want the question to be answered. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Prime Minister in the second part of her answer did in fact address the question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. This really follows on from what Mr Hide was just saying. During the course of the exchange between Mr Hide and the Prime Minister you seemed to let two interjections slide. One was from the Deputy Prime Minister Dr Cullen who shouted across the House: “If he gets in the gutter he gets kicked.” That raises the question of whether Mr Cullen was talking about Mr Hide or about Mr Tamihere who actually made the statement in the first place. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: At the time I said that both comments—all interjections that were made during that particular interchange—were out of order. 
Heather Roy 
: How can New Zealanders interpret this statement by Mr Tamihere: “They don’t have families. They’ve got nothing  
but 
 the ability to plot. I’ve gotta take my kid to soccer on Saturday they don’t.” except as indicating that this Labour Government has no understanding of and no empathy with New Zealand families? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Every New Zealander has a family. People have parents. Most have siblings. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Prime Minister will be heard in silence. [ 
Interruption 
] I have made that ruling because I cannot hear the answer to the question so I ask members to be quiet while we hear the answer. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Are you ruling now that whenever the Prime Minister gets up to answer a question we are not even allowed to make an interjection? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No I am not ruling that. I have said before that the odd interjection is permissible. But when there is a barrage and we cannot hear the answer or the question then that is in fact out of order. 
Rodney Hide 
: What I ask for is some consistency because during some trite answers from the Government we have heard forced canned laughter from the front bench and the second bench to show that Government members are not running scared on what John Tamihere said. I suggest that if you say that we have to be quiet then that should go for the Government as well. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Of course it goes for all parties. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Just to be helpful it may be a good idea to have the technicians look at the audio system by the Speaker’s chair. I seemed to be able to hear the Prime Minister very clearly from here through all that barrage yet you are sitting as close as possible to her and you do not seem to be able to hear. It may be a technical problem. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As I said earlier every New Zealander has a family. Families take many forms in our society and I think we should respect those choices. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why is it wrong for a member of Parliament whether or not that member is in the Labour Party to point out the disturbing manipulative social engineering policies of her administration and the deep disquiet that certain people have even in the Labour Party about the social agenda of this administration led by her when so many of her colleagues clearly according to Mr Tamihere share that view—10 he says and 15 more on a good day—and why does that article automatically become drivel just because it embarrasses her? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: This Government’s record on families stands second to none. Members should look at the Working for Families package that is rolling out this week whereby every family currently receiving family support can look forward to getting more support from the Labour Government. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Does Mr Hide have a supplementary question? 
Rodney Hide 
: Does Madam Speaker see my point? You could not hear me calling because of all the barrage coming across from the Government which never gets addressed. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: It was across the House. 
Rodney Hide 
: Why would the public not believe what John Tamihere said in that interview when he has spent years in Cabinet and in the Labour caucus and when all she can say in response is that Mr Tamihere was drunk and stressed and the report is drivel and she cannot address specific aspects of what Mr Tamihere has claimed? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have no doubt that the member was stressed caused in no small way by the fact that the member who has just asked the question spent many months making allegations against Mr Tamihere not one of which was substantiated. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. How could that possibly address the question other than to totally dodge it? I asked why we should not believe John Tamihere and now suddenly it is all my fault that he gave the interview where he has told the truth. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The question was addressed.