Harawira Hone: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Harawira Hone: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:661;Page:9453] 
7. 
HONE HARAWIRA (Maori Party—Te Tai Tokerau) 
 to the  
Minister of Local Government 
: Kei te whakaae ia ki ta Local Government New Zealand i korero nei ka raru te manapori o Aotearoa mena ka riro ma nga council-controlled organisations e whakapau nga piriona tara neke atu mo nga ratonga Kawanatanga a ka aha tana whakautu i aua whakapae me era hoki a mana whenua mo te whakaturanga o te kaunihera hou super-city i Tamaki Makaurau? 
[ 
Does he agree with Local Government New Zealand that democracy will be threatened by handing over billions of dollars’ worth of services to Government-appointed council-controlled organisations; and how will he address that criticism and criticism by mana whenua in the establishment of the new super-city council in Auckland? 
] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 No. Democracy is not threatened by the Government’s proposals. Council-controlled organisations are service delivery mechanisms. Council-controlled organisations already exist under the local government framework and many councils use that method of service delivery. For example the Wellington City Council has nine council-controlled organisations managing water supply stormwater the waterfront and the stadium as well as the city’s economic and tourism development. Council-controlled organisations are controlled by councils; that is what the name means and that is what the Local Government Act 2002 provides for. 
Hone Harawira 
: He aha to te Minita whakaaro e pa ana ki te rangatiratanga i roto i te manapori o te mana whenua ara ko ratou nga kaitiaki o te whenua me te wai no mua noa atu? 
[ 
What is the Minister’s view in respect of the democracy of mana whenua who have been viewed as the traditional guardians of lands and water since the beginning? 
] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: They will be recognised in terms of local democracy by the Auckland Council and indeed by the local boards that will be elected across Auckland by the people of Auckland. If the member had attended the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee on the third bill he would understand how they would operate and indeed would be encouraging Maori to stand for the local boards and for the Auckland Council. 
Hone Harawira 
: He aha tana whakautu ki nga manukanuka o te Kaiwhakawhanaunga-a-Iwi e pa ana ki te kore whakaae ki nga turu motuhake Maori me te whakaaro ki te whakakore i nga ropu tautoko mo iwi ke hei te paunga o te toru tau; e ai ki a ia ko te hua e penei ana “the Auckland council will be less diverse than its predecessors community boards will have little or no decision-making power and this will lead to continued disaffection by rather than inclusion of Auckland’s growing diverse communities”? 
[ 
What response does he have to the concerns from the Race Relations Conciliator that the rejection of designated seats for Maori and the proposed 3-year sunset clause for Pacific and other ethnic advisory boards will mean that  
“the Auckland council will be less diverse than its predecessors community boards will have little or no decision-making power and this will lead to continued disaffection by rather than inclusion of Auckland’s growing diverse communities”?] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: I have already commented as the leader of the ACT Party on the surprising comments made by the Race Relations Conciliator. I said that I was surprised that a person advocating human rights would be advocating separate seats on a democratically elected council because the idea that we would deny people an opportunity to stand for certain seats because of the tribe to which they belong or indeed because of the colour of their skin is anathema to the ACT Party. 
Phil Twyford 
: Why did the Minster say that the Auckland Council could meet and sack one or all of the directors of the council-controlled organisations—people whom he will have appointed—when he knows that the council would be opened up to massive damages if it sacked directors without reasonable cause? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Because it is true. Council-controlled organisation directors will be appointed by and be accountable to the Auckland Council. They are not employees of the council. The directors can be removed by the council. The new council-controlled organisations are likely to be set up as companies and subject to section 156 of the Companies Act 1993 to which I refer the member. There is also provision in the Local Government (Auckland Law Reform) Bill for the council to remove directors from Auckland Transport. If any of the council-controlled organisations are trusts then I would expect the trust deed to set out provisions for the removal of trustees because they will be existing trusts. 
Phil Twyford 
: Does he agree with media commentator Russell Brown who said this morning in relation to council-controlled organisations that the Minister is telling “flat-out lies about this stuff”? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: No but I do not believe that I have ever agreed with the so-called media commentator Russell Brown so that should not be a surprise. 
Phil Twyford 
: Does he still think that this is the change Aucklanders want when his bill is opposed by Len Brown John Banks Andrew Williams Mike Lee Local Government New Zealand Michael Barnett the  
New Zealand Herald 
  
The Aucklander 
 suburban newspapers and a majority of the Aucklanders recently polled by the  
New Zealand Herald 
 who said they did not want to be part of his super-city? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Yes indeed. I remind the member of what he said about Auckland and about the failure of the previous Government over 9 years to fix it up. I know that Aucklanders are appreciating a Government that takes Auckland seriously and that is addressing the issues of local government. I can tell the member that Aucklanders—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the answer is leading to more disorder. We have heard a reasonable answer from the Minister already I think. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I was just getting started. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Maybe I should explain myself. I accept that the question that was asked was a political question and that the Minister was perfectly entitled to give a political answer but political answers should not go on for ever. When I heard the Minister start to add that he could tell the member further stuff I felt the House had heard enough. 
Keith Locke 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. An interjection made several times from behind me was “Take your pills Phil.” I think that sort of interjection is not something we should hear in this House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: When questions and answers become highly political interjections become more political. If I were to rule out every little interjection like that the place would become pretty sterile. Although I accept that the member makes a good point and that members should not be unnecessarily unkind to each other the reality of life is that at times we are less than perfect.