Ngaro AlfredHon ALFRED NGARO (National): Thank you Madam Chair. I want to first of all preface my statement in my speech—I'm hoping to speak throughout the debate in the committee stage—that from my side and I know a number of us we love them both: both the choices of the mother and also the choices of the child. And I want to state that out front because there are many of those who would try to draw a line between pro-life and pro-choice when in actual fact we support both. The Minister of Justice started off his statements by saying making abortions safer for the woman is the intent of this bill. I want to quote from the report that came from the Attorney-General and it's from paragraph No. 23 where he states this: In considering limits on abortion access I conclude there are two equally important interests at play: personal bodily autonomy on the one hand and a broad societal interest in the preservation of human life on the other. … The broad societal interest in preserving human life is therefore a sufficiently important objective to justify a limitation on human rights and limiting access of abortion is a rational way of achieving that objective."This issue is about two parts not just one. And my Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) actually describes that. I want to quote further from the quote from the High Court in their submission where it states this: "Currently our abortion law seeks to balance these competing interests by requiring each prospective abortion to qualify under statutory criteria and by making lawful abortion subject to criminal provisions." And here's the point I think that's important that goes to the heart of some of my SOPs. The High Court states this: "the legislature has recognised through the abortion law that the unborn child has a claim on the conscience of the community. We therefore consider it both unprincipled and inconsistent with the aspects of our current law to entirely disregard the interests of an unborn child as this Bill proposes." There are both interests there are two interests here and I would like to speak to that in my SOP.My first SOP is SOP 470 and this is in regards to section 40 set out in new clause 16A about "(Commissioner may investigate breaches)". This Supplementary Order Paper in my name amends the Abortion Legislation Bill by inserting new clauses 16A and 16B which give the Health and Disability Commissioner a mandate to investigate contraventions of the regulations that govern the provision of abortion services under the Contraception Sterilisation and Abortion Act of 1977 and the Crimes Act of 1961. This ensures that health practitioners are held to account in relation to the duties under this bill.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): I'm sorry to interrupt the member—Hon ALFRED NGARO: This is SOP 470.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): That's right but aren't you in the wrong part? Isn't that in Part 2? New clauses 16A and 16B—isn't that in Part 2?Hon ALFRED NGARO: Oh yes it is. Sorry Madam Chair. I can speak to another part of my SOP. I'll introduce another SOP then.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): You have another SOP in Part 1.Hon ALFRED NGARO: OK yes so I've got two SOPs that I'd like to—but what I'll do is I will actually speak to along with the SOP in my colleague's name: SOP 459 in the name of Melissa Lee. And this is in regards to clause 12 and section 183 and section 184 "Abortion provided when sought on grounds of discrimination". And in particular in this SOP clause 184(1) it states: "A person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a term of imprisonment not exceeding 7 years if the person provides abortion services to a woman having a reasonable belief that the abortion services are being sought on the grounds of—" and I move to clause (b) of this SOP—"any disability or possible disability of the unborn child (except as provided for in subsection (2))"—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): I'm sorry but you're still in Part 2. So clause 12 is in Part 2 of the bill. I'll give you a third try. Hon ALFRED NGARO: Give me a third try—oh third time lucky.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): If you talk to your first amendment.Hon ALFRED NGARO: OK clause 7—how does that go?CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): That's good. That's excellent. Hon ALFRED NGARO: I was carried away; I hope I can seek your indulgence for it.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): I can tell that. I will give you another go.Hon ALFRED NGARO: If I could speak on SOP 466 which I think is a great—this is in regards to [Bell rung] Thank you Madam Chair—OK third time lucky. This is SOP 466 in my name and this is in particular around cultural considerations. This SOP amends clause 7 of the Abortion Legislation Bill inserting a new section 18 to require that persons in organisations with duties or responsibilities under the bill recognise the cultural considerations relevant to the woman requesting abortion services There've been a number of submissions that have been submitted out of the 25000 that talked about the importance of these considerations. And in particular I want to read from a couple of those submissions and I want to refer to the submission that was made in regards to the issues for Māori in particular and why these considerations are critically important. In this regard even under the Health and Disability Commissioner cultural competencies are critically important to considering those issues and those needs that are prominent for a number of different woman and in this case who may have cultural considerations that are critically important. I want to refer to the submission from Te Oko Hou which is a voluntary tribal collective of Hunga Whakapono Māori from many tribal networks and territories throughout New Zealand. Their submission was quite clearly in opposition to the Abortion Legislation Bill but was based on a number of cultural considerations that I think are critically important in this regards. First of all they talk about—"Te Oko Hou claims the unborn child as a taonga under article two of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and believes this deserves recognition and protection [under] the Crown." So the whole essence of cultural considerations is that we ensure—and we have this throughout different types of health legislation—that we provide an understanding of the importance of the roles of both language of culture and particularly of whānau and hapū in this particular case as stated here from the submission that was put forward in that regard.They also go on to state "We stand as a community on behalf of the traditional Māori status of the unborn child to be confirmed as a 'taonga' as recognised under article two of Te Tiriti o Waitangi just as the common notion of tamariki today being a taonga. Both our unborn children and our tamariki deserve protection through societal laws designed to preserve life." In their submission they are really clear. They felt that cultural consideration—those who've got competent services and also skillsets are critically important to the roles that they could play. We have this provision already in our health services and we feel that this consideration as an amendment under SOP 466 will be critically important. As set out in new section 18(1) in SOP 466 "Any person or organisation accorded a duty or responsibility under this Act must perform those duties or responsibilities in a manner that recognises in relation to one requesting abortion services—(a) the woman's ethnic background:"—in this case I've given just some quotes from some of those submissions and many others that talked about in particular Māori and Pasifika in this case—"(b) the societal attitudes or customs of the woman and others within the woman's community including proper recognition of—". In a number of the submissions that were put forward many incidences were given of woman giving I suppose the trauma and the tragedy that they felt after having an abortion and the lack of support services that were there for them. We believe that having cultural consideration those who are skilled can not only provide that service but ensure that they ask a line of inquiry: have they considered the support of the whānau of the hapū and even the iwi that may be available there as well?Also too in cultural considerations "(ii) the contribution those ties make to the woman's wellbeing: (iii) the woman's cultural and ethnic identity language and religious or ethical beliefs:" and "(c) the woman's spiritual beliefs which may include a lack of spiritual beliefs." in this case. But more importantly it's having those who are skilled enough to be able to provide that service in particular that we think is critically important. "(2) A provider of abortion services must ensure that the services of a competent interpreter"—we know that we are not only just talking about women in this case but many of the women that may come forward may have different language issues and interpretation becomes critically important. We currently have those services available as a consideration.So I believe that this SOP is important. I hope that both the Minister and other members will consider that this would be to me and to my mind and to others who have submitted an important consideration to ensure that we have those who have both the skillset and the ability to provide that particular service in regards to cultural considerations. I submit this SOP to the committee."