Hughes GarethGARETH HUGHES (Green): Kia ora Madam Assistant Speaker. Ngā mihi nui ki a koutou kia ora. If you were listening to the debate you'd think the reason why National is voting against this is because it contains a working group. I don't know which part they're opposed to—the working or the group nature of it. When they were in Government they would have just outsourced it to offshore bankers. That would have been their solution. The irony of course is: how many working groups did the last Government set up? There was the Savings Working Group the Tax Working Group and the Productivity Commission. National of course set up their fair share of working groups because it is an eminently reasonable thing to do. You want to get expert advice. So I commend the member Fletcher Tabuteau for introducing this legislation to the House. Everyone here has seen those horror stories of people's KiwiSaver accounts being whittled down because of the fees. We've all seen the figure—half a million dollars $500000 worth of savings and $100000 of that could have been the fees eaten in. Of course it's not just the direct fees that the saver is losing. It's the forgone interest. It's the ability to have extra money into the future for retirement or saving for a house. What we do know is that nationally under the status quo the amount of fees charged could have hit $12 billion by Kiwis within the next 20 years.I heard the last speaker say Well let's look at the fees." Now it's a bit rich to say "let's look at the fees" after you've just spent nine years in Government not looking at the fees. The time to look at the fees is when you are in Government and you have the ability to do it. It's pretty rich or in terms of KiwiSaver savers it's pretty poor for them to have waited nine years.So look KiwiSaver has been transformative for New Zealand but it does need a bit of a tweak a change to make it more effective. It's been transformative but we still have a savings problem. Back in 2015 James Shaw pointed out that we were ranked 22 out of 24 OECD countries for our savings rate. It's a big reason why our markets lack liquidity a big reason why our businesses lack access to capital and a big reason for the New Zealand paradox where ostensibly we should be a higher-performing economy than we actually are. I think it's because of our savings rates and because of our woeful R & D spending rates.What this bill does is it sets up the working group to establish KiwiFund a public provider KiwiSaver to reduce those fees. This is something we support and something Russel Norman first proposed back in 2011. Of course it's not just us and New Zealand First; it's also National's very own Savings Working Group. They recommend it because it's good for Kiwis. It's going to increase the amount of savings they have to buy their first home or to fund their retirement. It's good for consumers. But secondly it's also good for the other providers. We've seen what a transformational change Kiwibank has provided in the banking sector and this could do for the KiwiSaver sector what Kiwibank has done in that sector. So it's good for consumers and good for the market.We look forward to hearing about this in select committee and in particular I'd really acknowledge the principle the member has enumerated which is the preference for New Zealand investments. I want to see more Kiwi investments being funded. I've seen some figures that only 10 percent of KiwiSaver funds are invested in New Zealand equities. I think many people would be surprised. They look at what the ACC fund the super fund have done and I think they'd be surprised at that low rate.I also note the concerns of some commentators—I think Brian Easton was one of them—saying "Well could you actually get less than ideal responses lower returns which in turn send a lower rate for consumers?" We want to flesh that out. We want to hear from the experts. But while we're talking about tax let's not forget the nine years National had and their woeful record when it came to tax. It was them who under urgency scrapped the $1000 KiwiSaver kick-start which had been so successful at seeing Kiwis sign up in record numbers to a savings scheme. It was National who voted against our amendment which would have seen community services cardholders some of the lowest paid and most vulnerable Kiwis have the ability to access that KiwiSaver kick-start. It was National who didn't support our proposal to see a kids KiwiSaver account created which on our calculations with that $1000 kick-start could have seen most children build a nest egg of $12900 by the time they turned 18 for education a first home or for building up those KiwiSaver funds in the future.We are supporting this legislation because it's a good bill. It's going to have good outcomes for Kiwis good outcomes for our communities and good outcomes for our economy. This is ultimately what the Green Party is in Parliament for—to grow a richer New Zealand in a quality-of-life sense but also in a financial sense. Kia ora Madam Assistant Speaker."