Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10323] 
5.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he stand by his statement that “86000 children will definitely get 20 free hours under Labour”; if so why? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Yes. I will announce the initial take-up of 20 hours’ free early childhood education for 3 to 4-year-olds on Monday as has always been planned. I expect that over the next year the numbers benefiting will climb as more and more centres sign up because New Zealand families recognise that this policy is an excellent one as does the member’s leader. 
Katherine Rich 
: How far short of his 20 free hours target will he be on Monday and can we assume that the numbers of 3 and 4-year-olds are nowhere near the 86000 to 92000 to whom his Government promised 20 free hours because if the numbers were remotely near those targets he is just the sort of Minister who would be trumpeting that success from the rooftops right now? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: It is worth drawing the member’s attention to the fact that she has asked these questions for a number of months and has been given the same answer for a number of months. That answer is that we are optimistic about the number of centres that will come in on 1 July we are optimistic about the number of young people who will be in and that from 1 July which is the beginning of this policy the numbers will climb steadily over the following year. That is what we have said that is what we expect that is what we have said for months that is what we are still saying and that is what will happen on Monday. 
Moana Mackey 
: What is the benefit to early childhood education centres of the Labour-led Government’s policy of 20 hours’ free early childhood education? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: In the past centres have had to rely on parents for fees donations and fund-raising. This policy will give them security and certainty of funding. On Monday centres offering 20 hours’ per week free education will receive an advance payment covering the next 4 months and the sum will be around $105000 for an average centre. By contrast National offers complete uncertainty. Paula Bennett told Radio New Zealand that National would not offer the policy. Katherine Rich is quoted in the Christchurch 
 Press 
 today as saying that National never said it would scrap it and has not decided what to do. It looks to me like a case of aspirational John Key versus bean counter Bill English. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Would the Minister agree that if the objective of the free early childhood education policy is to increase early childhood education participation rates the $109 million would have been better targeted to children 2 years old and under rather than to 3 and 4-year-olds whose participation rates are already much greater than 90 percent? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I think the member is indicating where policies like this might go over the years. We have to start somewhere; 3 to 4-year-olds who are moving towards the age of starting school seem the best place to start with this policy. But I think the member is raising the fact that probably as time goes by people will be looking for the expansion of the policy to different age groups. 
Katherine Rich 
: When the first payment for 20 free hours is due to be direct-credited into accounts on Monday why does he keep up the pretence that he has no idea how many centres have opted in or how many kids are actually going to receive 20 free hours; does he seriously think this House believes that the Ministry of Education can undertake such a complicated financial transaction without having any idea of the numbers? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I have never kept up such a pretence. The fact of life is that I have been saying to the member for some time that she should just relax. The ministry has done a great job of administering this policy. The sector has responded very well to it. We have always planned—for Mr Nick Smith who will not stop yelling—that the announcement will be on Monday. That is what we have always planned and that is what we will do so I ask the member just to relax and to get the news when it is due. 
Katherine Rich 
: Does he understand that when he said that 86000 New Zealand kids would get 20 free hours come 1 July most parents thought that their kids would actually receive it. And what is with this inane coo cooing that the Opposition should relax; who the hell does he think he is—Frankie Goes to Hollywood? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The stress is starting to show—that is all I can say. At no time have I said there would be 86000 kids involved on 1 July. When that figure was put into the public arena that was the number of 3 to 4-year-olds enrolled in early childhood centres. That is why that figure was used at that time. I say to the member that I have said a number of times over many months that when the policy rolls out we will give the updated figures and I think that is a reasonable thing to do. 
Katherine Rich 
: When will he just— 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I really like Frankie Goes to Hollywood. 
Katherine Rich 
: He likes Frankie Goes to Hollywood? When will he just relax focus on his own policy and admit that come Monday nowhere near the 92000 children whom he told New Zealand parents back in 2005 would get 20 hours’ free early childhood education will get it and that his policy of 20 hours free is just a fraud? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I do not think I could be more relaxed if I tried. What I have always said on the way through this policy is that on 1 July it will start and there will be a good muster of centres and of children. We are optimistic about that. Then the number will steadily climb. I would say that I think the number will be a little lower than it might have been because the campaign to confuse people— 
Nandor Tanczos 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My apologies to the Minister. It is simply that I am finding it extremely difficult to follow a word that the Minister is saying because of the level of noise. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I agree with the member. I do not want to rule that we should have the answer in silence; that seems to be too much of a provocation. But would members please just keep the level down. Would the Minister please respond. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: In summary I have established who is relaxed and who is not and I was moving on to say that we have always made it very clear that 1 July was a start date that there would be a good optimistic number of centres and children in the policy and that it will climb steadily from there. I did note that I think the campaign against this policy has meant that on 1 July some parents will not be getting their $60 $70 or $80 back from the policy because of the campaign against it. No doubt once they see it rolling out they will roll into the policy as well. 
Paula Bennett 
: When he said yesterday that kindergartens have never been free because they have always asked for donations and optional charges was he finally acknowledging that his 20 hours free policy is not free because centres can ask for donations and optional charges? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: For the member’s information I was quoting the Waikato Kindergarten Association which was pointing out that there always have been donations there has always been a fee and there always has been the fund-raising process that goes around it. The big benefit for kindergartens is that they now get a guaranteed sum of money; the average centre will get $105000 on 1 July—advanced funding for 4 months. That is stability and that is certainty. 
Paula Bennett 
: How can the Minister continue to argue that 20 hours will be free when most people will end up paying for their free hours through optional charges and when he himself said yesterday that kindergartens had never been free because people paid donations and optional charges; and does he finally understand that when one is paying for something it is not free? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I can only repeat because the member seems to have missed it that the quote yesterday was from the Waikato Kindergarten Association which was pointing out the history of kindergarten funding. I thank the member for giving me the opportunity to repeat that the 20 hours free policy applies to the regulated level of 20 hours’ early childhood education. This is a hugely popular policy it is hugely popular around the country and it is one that I know that the National Policy is looking forward to flip-flopping on and supporting as soon as it can.