SpeechHon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): Just a point of clarification because I inaccurately referred to GHD in terms of peer reviewing the Water Industry Commission of Scotland study when it was in fact Beca Group and farrierswier so I just wanted to clarify that as a point.If I go to the Estimates-related components of the questions that have been asked can I just continue to highlight that the better-off component of the support package—which comprises of a $2 billion fund that territorial authorities will be able to use to support the three waters service delivery reform objectives and other local wellbeing outcomes in a manner consistent with the priorities of central and local government—is the case and it is in relation to the matters that I outlined earlier in terms of the criteria; that's supporting communities to transition to a sustainable low-emissions economy including by building resilience to climate change and natural hazards delivery of infrastructure and/or services that enable housing development and growth and support local place making and improvements to community wellbeing.Now the member from ACT asked Well then why don't we instead spend the $2.5 billion of the incentive directly on three waters infrastructures?" Because there is a burgeoning cost to three waters. The $2.5 billion—and if we look to the figures that we have identified as the ballooning cost required to invest in infrastructure it is between $120 billion to $185 billion over the next 30 years. This would be just a drop in the bucket.Can I say that many of the questions that members have pointed to are issues that will be dealt with by the Finance and Expenditure Committee as the Water Services Entities Bill progresses through its stages at select committee. But there are a few inaccuracies that I really do want to highlight. There is some perception that has been promoted by the member that Te Mana o te Wai is just a spiritual aspiration. In fact when Māori talk about water it's the whole complete cycle of water. And perhaps that's the challenge that we have when we think about our board objectives of protecting source water to be able to drink so that everyone can drink good water. When we're thinking about returning water into its receiving environment and the health of how we treat water to be able to go back into the receiving environment to do no more harm actually a Te Mana o te Wai whole-of-cycle perspective around the treatment of water would do us great good. The reason why I say that is because many of the examples in the past about how three waters have been responded to is about pipes under the ground. But when we look to natural solutions and using our wetlands; using the contours of land which is so critical when we think about stormwater solutions and the like; and Te Mana o te Wai in an applied sense then we will come up with really smart—in my mind—urban design solutions that are not just about pipes under the ground. It is about ensuring that the whole cycle and life of water can better work to both the health and the environmental benefits of communities.In terms of sustainable financing and the challenge that we're facing—and again I raised this with the select committee when I sat in front of them to outline the reason and the proposition for reform during the Estimates—it is not one singular ambition that the Government is trying to ensure that it meets. If we look across a broad range of objectives of the Government in the three waters reform programme which I spoke to at select committee it is about sustainable financing it is about—through scale and aggregation but that's not the only benefit. It's about ensuring that there is ultimately a model that ensures affordability for ratepayers. It's about ensuring that in terms of both health and environmental standards the looming costs by meeting a burning platform of higher standards can be met in a sustainable way. It's about ensuring that the Crown is able to uphold its Treaty of Waitangi obligations because substantially when we think about the whole-of-cycle system and we think about the way in which Treaty of Waitangi settlements have a number of provisions which touch on the natural resource area in relation to water. Those are all the elements that are featured within the system reform that we're promoting.What I regret is that much of the myth-making that has occurred within this committee continues to distract from the broader benefits that communities will get from the three waters reform programme."