Roche Denise: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeRoche Denise: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 25 September 2013. Volume:693;Page:13697. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]12.DENISE ROCHE (Green) to theMinister of Finance: What is the expected value of the dividends from TVNZ that the Crown will forego as a result of the dividend relief agreement related to theSkyCity deal?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance): The Government has agreed to dividend relief for Television New Zealand (TVNZ) to help it cover the cost of a significant investment in the major refurbishment of the central Auckland building that it currently occupies. Some of the refurbishment costs will be met by $10.6 million that the company will receive from the sale of a package of land toSkycity. The rest will bemet through foregone dividends. TVNZ is currently in discussions with contractors regarding refurbishment and I would prefer not to release an estimate of the dividend relief while they are undertaking commercial negotiations but I am happy to do so when those negotiations are finished.Denise Roche: Why was the cost to the Crown in lost TVNZ dividends not included in the assessment of the value of theSkycity deal which is looking better forSkycity and worse for New Zealand by the day?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Because it was not part of any consideration of the arrangements aroundSkycity. In fact I think the catalyst for it was the idea that Telecom had emptied a building and there would be an opportunity for TVNZ to use that building in transition while the main TVNZ building was being refurbished. Those issues have only ever been considered in the last 3 months or 4 months.Denise Roche: I seek leave to table a letter from Minister Foss saying that TVNZ could reduce the dividends to facilitate the sale of land toSkycity.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table—it is a letter from Minister Foss?Denise Roche: Minister Foss.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that letter. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Denise Roche: What is the value of the social and economic harm that will arise from increased gambling and gambling harm in New Zealand resulting from this deal?Hon BILL ENGLISH: This deal has not been part of the considerations aroundSkycity although I know the Greens do not count jobs as having any social benefit. This deal like theSkycity deal will create more jobs certainly in the transition but it is an investment that TVNZ is making for its own future. It happens that selling those buildings toSkycity enablesSkycity to have a better convention centre. In that sense it is a win-win.Denise Roche: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was about the value of the social and economic costs and the Minister—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member did not use that question. She used “What is the value of the social and economic harm?”. In that she put an opinion. She may well be able to justify that opinion but the Minister then addressed the question.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a very direct question—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can I just clarify—is the member disputing a ruling I have just given? Because if so I am—Dr Russel Norman: No.Mr SPEAKER: Well if it is a fresh point of order I will happily hear it. But it had better be.Dr Russel Norman: The Minister used the occasion of his answer to make derogatory comments about the Green Party. It has nothing—Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member finds those comments derogatory to the Green Party then I suggest he is just too sensitive. [Interruption] Order! I have a point of order here. Points of order will be heard in silence.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Previously—and there are several Speakers’ rulings regarding this—members have been told that we can expect a like style of answer to a like question. So straight questions—Mr SPEAKER: Could I just ask the member to refer me to which Speakers’ rulings he is referring to?Chris Hipkins: I have not actually got the exact numbers but I am sure the Clerk will be able to tell you which ones. But anyway the principle behind them is that a like question gets a like answer. So if it is a straight question you get a straight answer. If it is a political question you get a political answer. Repeatedly what we have seen here is the member asking what I think are relatively straight questions and the Minister has used that to attack the position or the supposed position of the person—Mr SPEAKER: The member obviously did not listen to my answer to the point of order. The question had a level of politics in it when it talked about the social and economic harm being done by the casino deal. The Minister took the opportunity to respond by saying “What about the jobs?”. Listen this is a political debating chamber. The question was with an element of politics. The answer given had an element of politics. If the Greens find that derogatory I do not believe that it was so.Denise Roche: How can the Government be sure—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can the member now start her question again.Denise Roche: How can the Government be sure that the economic case for theSkycity deal stacks up when it does not know what the cost will be and is relying onSkycity’s numbers for estimates of the benefits?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Well in respect of this deal it would not have been included in calculations about costs or benefits because it is really an opportunity that arose out of the fact that theSkycity deal was eventually completed andSkycity on completion of that deal has been looking to make sure that the convention centre is as economic as possible. The Government has been looking at whether TVNZ ought to consolidate its buildings from I think three or four buildings into one. That one building needs refurbishment. That will come at some cost. The Government as an owner has been willing to invest in that alongside the proceeds of the sale of land toSkycity. That is how it has worked so that is why this deal has not been included in any calculation of costs or benefits aroundSkycity.Denise Roche: I seek leave to table an email from an independent adviser to the Ministry of Economic Development saying that all the Government’s numbers come fromSkycity and are not independently verified.Mr SPEAKER: We need to know who the author of that document is.Denise Roche: It is from an independent adviser and it is to RogerWigglesworth. It was given to us in confidence.Mr SPEAKER: The easiest way is to put the leave. Is there any objection to that anonymous email being presented? There is objection.