5. Question No. 5—Housing and Urban DevelopmentHon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura) to the Minister of Housing and Urban DevelopmentQuestion No. 5—Housing and Urban Development5. Hon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura) to the Minister of Housing and Urban Development: How many ministerial meetings has he had with Stephen Barclay head of KiwiBuild and when was the last time he met with Mr Barclay?Hon PHIL TWYFORD (Minister of Housing and Urban Development): I've had 20 meetings with officials of the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development over the last six months which often included Mr Barclay. There were other meetings outside of regular officials meetings which he may have attended too. My office estimates this could be as many as 20 additional meetings. However my office does not track attendance of all individuals at those meetings. My last meeting with Mr Barclay was on 12 November 2018.Hon Judith Collins: What information if any has he received as to the reason that Mr Barclay head of KiwiBuild is away from the office" as stated by the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development?Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Mr Speaker given the public interest in this issue with your permission I would like to give a slightly longer than normal answer to this question. Stephen Barclay has not resigned as the head of KiwiBuild. There is an ongoing employment issue which I cannot comment on. While he's out of the office day-to-day support of the KiwiBuild programme is being managed by Brad Ward a member of the senior leadership at the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development. However I can confirm for the member that Mr Barclay's employment matter has nothing to do with his relationship with me or my office it has nothing to do with the establishment of the new Ministry of Housing and Urban Development and it has nothing to do with the merits of the KiwiBuild policy. Other than what I have said it is not in the individual's interest nor the public interest for me to comment further. Responsibility for staff at the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development is a matter for the chief executive of that ministry and it would be inappropriate for me to comment on employment matters. I can assure the House that the chief executive of the ministry is giving this matter priority attention and the KiwiBuild unit is working incredibly hard to build affordable homes for Kiwi families. Hon Judith Collins: Well if it's not a matter that the Minister has become involved in then why did he comment on 9 May "Great to have someone of Stephen's calibre leading the KiwiBuild team."? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Well I think that most people would recognise that publicly welcoming the appointment of a new chief executive is quite different from a Minister breaking the conventions in the Cabinet Manual and the provisions of the State Sector Act to wade into an employment dispute. David Seymour: Is it not the case that KiwiBuild is such an illogical confused and contradictory dog's breakfast of a policy that the guy in charge has given up trying to work it out and gone into hiding? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: No. Hon Judith Collins: Has he received any advice that Stephen Barclay is still being paid for his time away from the office and if so what was that advice? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: It's an employment matter and I have not received any advice of that nature. Hon Judith Collins: Does he believe that New Zealanders deserve to know why Mr Barclay has been away from the office and whether or not Mr Barclay is being paid? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: I think New Zealanders deserve a Minister that will follow the conventions of the Cabinet Manual and the provisions of the State Sector Act not wade into an employment dispute. I would have thought that the member who's a former lawyer and Minister would understand that. Hon Judith Collins: Why then has it taken six weeks for him to advise New Zealanders that his head of KiwiBuild is "away from the office"? Hon PHIL TWYFORD: Because there's an employment dispute going on that's being dealt with by the chief executive of the ministry."