Martin TraceyHon TRACEY MARTIN (Minister for Children): Kia ora Mr Chair. Thank you very much. I'll just take a short call on the Social Assistance Legislation (Budget 2019 Welfare Package) Amendment Bill just to support the intent of what the Minister for Social Development is doing here. It shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that I have the job of being the Minister for Children. I want to acknowledge Louise Upston the previous speaker and the articulation of both sides of the House that we want to make sure that children are given the best opportunity that they can that they are well-supported by us as a country and that parents are held to account I suppose on the welfare of their children. However I believe it's been articulated across this House on numerous occasions that when we create policy we must create policy based on a level of fact: is the policy that we are creating or a policy that somebody else has created—can it be proven that it is the solution to the problem? I think what we've identified and again the previous speaker talked about it is that one of the problems that we've got—and it's not a new problem—is that fathers have abandoned children for centuries and mothers have had to step up and do it on their own for centuries. So it's not a new problem; it's about finding the solution to that problem. What the evidence shows is that if this was the solution it hasn't worked. What it has done however is it has made it harder for those women. It has made it more difficult for the lives of those children. So certainly I know that the member who has just resumed her seat Louise Upston asked what the solution would be and then how we make men who abandon their children take responsibility and I would love to sit down and work through a solution that actually works with that member. I think that would be a great thing to do. Let's find one that doesn't penalise children. Let's find one that doesn't take money out of the hands of single parents so that they have less money to put food on the table and less money to actually provide school supplies for their children and less money for shoes and socks and clothes and all those other sorts of things that that money is needed for. So let's do that—let's not penalise children. What we know from the evidence is that there are children living inside these houses and we know who their dads are. We know who their dads are. For whatever reason there's been a difference between who the dad is of one set of children and then possibly there's another child. Now that's not new either. This is not a modern development—that one woman might have children to a couple of different dads. You might be widowed after a war for example and go and marry again or have a child to somebody else. This has not been created just in the last decade so we need a solution to the issue where men abandon their children. That's the solution we need but part of that answer should not be to penalise children merely because they don't know who their father is or it should not penalise children who happen to live inside the house of a child for whom we don't know who the father is—and we have evidence about that. The Opposition have said—quite rightly so and I have listened to them—that when you create policy it must be based upon evidence. This did not work. This hurt children. We believe it is time to acknowledge that the evidence says it doesn't work. We believe it is time to find another way and I absolutely welcome the opportunity to sit down and talk with the Opposition about How else can we can make men accountable?" or "How can we make them want to be accountable rather than actually take off?" because that would be better for the children as well—to have reasonable responsible males in their lives in a constructive way. That's what I believe we are all trying to achieve. We support the intent. We support the bill. For too long these children have been penalised for situations that adults have created."