Dalziel Lianne: Children Young Persons and Their Families (Youth Courts Jurisdiction and Orders) Amendment Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
Dalziel Lianne: Children Young Persons and Their Families (Youth Courts Jurisdiction and Orders) Amendment Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:660;Page:9312] 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL (Labour—Christchurch East) 
: 
 I enjoy the opportunity to follow the member because I consider that his contribution unlike the Minister’s was intelligent and reasoned and I feel that he went through the issues. 
Hon Member 
: It’s true. 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I do not think the member was listening to the Minister in the chair the Hon Paula Bennett when she gave a response to a very serious issue that was raised with me. A constituent—and I did not know he was a constituent when he came up to me—said that I had given a good speech because it had made him think about how this legislation will affect his 11½-year-old son. He looked at his 11½-year-old son and said: “At 12 this child would be subject to the jurisdiction of the Youth Court.” It made him think. The Minister stood up and said in response to the questions that I had asked that she had been rung by people who said that I had given a bad speech. Well frankly I do not care what anyone else says about the quality of my speech. I am interested in the issues that the previous speaker raised. 
I think that the previous speaker nailed it when he isolated the differences between Labour and National on this legislation. Nobody has mentioned this and the Minister continues to refuse to do this in her incapacity to deal with the fact that these are children we are talking about. Does anyone in his or her right mind—and I hope Chester Borrows takes some further calls on this bill—seriously think that these children end up committing these terrible offences in isolation from the environment within which they live? Does anyone think that? Does anyone seriously think that the lives of these children have somehow been perfect and all of a sudden they go out and commit a horrendous crime such as intentionally wounding with intent to injure? That is one of the offences we have. Does that happen in isolation of the family or the parents? Does that happen in isolation from a community or from the whanau iwi or hapu? Does it happen all by itself? 
David Garrett 
: No. 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: No it does not and even the ACT member agrees with me on that. 
In 1989 New Zealand created a world-leading mechanism for addressing some of these most serious issues. In fact there is an element of what we know now that would make me want to rewrite the opening words of the Children Young Persons and Their Families Act. It states: “An Act to reform the law relating to children and young persons who are in need of care or protection or who offend against the law.” I think all of the children who offend against the law have care and protection issues. Not all of those with care and protection issues end up as offenders but there is a connection. 
I remember that when I first became a member of Parliament a number of issues arose around the practice of having youth justice facilities on the same site as the care and protection units. The member opposite will recall those facilities in Christchurch. There were serious issues because under the law they cannot mix. The irony that the social workers and the managers of those centres talked to me about was that it was crazy; they are the same children. They come in as care and protection cases and then come back as offenders under the youth justice provisions. 
The connections between care and protection and youth justice cannot be minimised and that is what has happened with this debate. The previous speaker did not even mention the fact that these children have a right under our law to have the care and protection of their families their parents and their communities. What has happened is terribly wrong. 
Let us look at some of the care and protection issues: whether the child or young person is being or is likely to be harmed—physically emotionally or sexually—ill-treated abused or seriously deprived; or whether his or her development or physical or mental or emotional well-being is being or is likely to be impaired or neglected. All of those issues lie behind these children. They do not end up being offenders simply because they have grown up to be offenders. There are issues that lie behind them and they are always every time about care and protection.