Kaye Nikki: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeKaye Nikki: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 29 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5465. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon NIKKI KAYE (Minister for ACC): I am pleased to take a second call. I want to start by reiterating what I said before: if you consider this is about the flag then we are actually not dealing with what is the most important issue which is who we are what we stand for our nationhood and New Zealanders having a democratic vote which is part of the purpose of this bill.I just want to address Phil Goff’s issue that he raised about the timing of this referendum. Actually I think the Justice and Electoral Committee did consider this. The Electoral Commission did recommend I think in 2011 that referendums were not held at the time of a general election. My understanding is some of the complexity and cost do not go away if they are held at that time.But I want to cover five issues—five issues that have been covered in this debate that relate to the purpose of this bill. The first is that it costs too much. Well actually referendums cost a lot of money. It costs money to give people a vote. Would members opposite actually say that they are anti-referendums because that is what it costs to hold a referendum and give people that vote? Phil Goff has just said and admitted that they actually do agree with the fact that there should be a referendum. We saw in the Labour Party policy very clearly outlined on its website—New Zealanders can google that right now; “Labour Party policy”—that it believes we should consult on the flag. Andrew Little is on record as saying it should be by referendum.In terms of it costing too much well we saw under the last Labour Government what it did with the Privy Council. It was a constitutional issue; an issue of nationhood. Labour never campaigned on it. Labour came in and bowled the thing. Actually we disagree with you. On an issue of nationhood it should go to a referendum.When you come to the issue of the timing well I said before I think actually that what this is about is it is all very well and good for Labour Party members to stand up and say “We are going to campaign on consulting on the flag.” and for its leader—well not its then leader; it is hard to keep up with the Labour Party—to say “We believe in referendums.” but then we come into this House and the reason it is not good timing is actually the issues of a multicultural open nation that relate to things like housing immigration and trade. They cut to the heart of those issues. They are the exact issues that the Labour Party does not want to be talking about right at the moment.In terms of the process let us come back to the purpose and let us talk about the process. As I have said before on an issue like this it is very important. We have never as a country in 100 years had the ability to have a vote on the flag. That we do actually have a vote—and actually it is not appropriate that politicians decide. It is appropriate that it actually goes to a vote. Secondly in terms of process we have heard a range of things around you know spending $7 million on the question of “Should we have a change?”. It is different in terms of our electoral system and the vote that happened there. People were very clear about the options before they had that opportunity to have a question. We have had thousands of flags out there. I am in and out of schools and the whole issue of the fact that people have not participated in this is absolutely wrong.It is absolutely wrong that people can argue in this Committee that people have not been participating in this debate. That shows very clearly that certain members of this Committee do not understand the modern world. They do not understand that there are a group of New Zealanders who would turn up to public meetings but more and more there are an increasing number of New Zealanders as we saw with this process—I think over 800000 people—being involved online and looking at those flag designs.So from our perspective on this side of the Chamber it is important and it is timely as a nation to consider who we are. It cuts to the very heart of trade of housing and of immigration. We have never had a vote as a nation on this. It is time for us to have our vote. Our side of the Chamber is going to ensure that New Zealanders get that vote. We are very confident of the process. If you are going to have a referendum it is going to cost an amount of money and we are going to give New Zealanders that opportunity.