edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Heatley Phil: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
Heatley Phil: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
[Volume:633;Page:5188] 
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You will recall I wrote to you on a matter of privilege to do with the Minister of Housing. I thank you for your reply to that. I also wrote you a second letter regarding the ongoing habit of my receiving misleading answers on housing questions and the media receiving different answers from those given to myself. One was on hui and whanau where the Minister replied that he could not collate the information for me over 5 working days but he gave it to the media when they asked for it within hours. Another was where the media were given corrected answers to a parliamentary question on State house income earnings but I did not receive a corrected reply for 3 weeks. Another was on declared boarder numbers where the Minister told the media there were 1000 boarders then told this House there were 7000 boarders. 
I wonder when I will get a reply on that particular complaint about my receiving wrong incorrect information from the Minister of Housing and the media receiving different information from the Minister of Housing or receiving it in a more timely manner. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: As the member is aware that is not a point of order; the member will receive a reply in due course.
Wilson Margaret: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
Wilson Margaret: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
[Volume:633;Page:5188] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank members for their comments. I did of course consult widely before the last ruling was made and it was made in the context as I have said before that all members in this House should be free to express themselves but they should be able to do that in a way that is consistent with other members being heard. That is all that is being sought within this House. As I said it is for members themselves also to take some responsibility for this. In my judgment often the answers follow the questions as well and I do intend in respect of both questions and answers to make them as consistent with the Standing Orders as is humanly possible.
Mallard Trevor: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
Mallard Trevor: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
[Volume:633;Page:5187] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister for Economic Development) 
: 
 Madam Speaker if you cast your mind back to yesterday you will recall there was actually a lot more barracking during answers than during questions. I think members who are relatively new members cannot remember the days when there was some balance in this House between Government and Opposition and Government members were allowed to interject regularly and there was what I think was generally regarded as a free and even flow. That has tightened up in recent years. Following a request there has been some balance restored and I think it now behoves both sides of the House to decide whether that balance comes down to a level that is reasonable or not. 
But I want to make it clear that as far as I am concerned and many Government members are concerned if allegations of corruptness are used against us then we will tell the truth about members opposite.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
[Volume:633;Page:5187] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I make a suggestion that perhaps part of yesterday’s problem arose from the decision there could be interjection while questions were being asked—and I would point out that it was in fact Mr Dunne who sought that ruling from you some weeks back. I also think you cannot avoid—and I note that Mr Dunne’s correspondent made it abundantly clear—that it is the answers given by Ministers that cause much of the problem.
Dunne Peter: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
Dunne Peter: Points of Order — Questions for Oral Answer—Interruptions Housing—Replies to Questions 
[Volume:633;Page:5187] 
Hon PETER DUNNE (Minister of Revenue) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It may be appropriate to raise this point at this stage before questions commence. Yesterday was probably the most raucous rowdy question period I can recall in over 20 years in this place and for at least one correspondent this morning who is a regular listener to Parliament it was the worst in over 35 years. Last week or the week before you ruled that orchestrated barracking would not be tolerated. We had that from both sides yesterday on occasion. Before today’s round begins I am seeking your assurance that you will honour your previous ruling and that those who indulge in orchestrated barracking will be asked to leave the Chamber so that the rest of us can hear what is going on. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member for his comment. I will certainly enforce that to the best of my ability but it is largely in the hands of members themselves; otherwise there would be few people left within the Chamber and I do not see that that would serve any useful purpose—though some may disagree with me. But I do ask members to respect the right of others and those who are listening to be able to hear the answer. It is not to prevent people from expressing themselves but in fact to provide that freedom of expression that I think this House wishes to uphold—the right to hear what others say.
Wilson Margaret: Visitors — People’s Republic of China—Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee  National People’s Congress 
Wilson Margaret: Visitors — People’s Republic of China—Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee  National People’s Congress 
[Volume:633;Page:5187] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have much pleasure in informing the House that members of the Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee of the National People’s Congress of the People’s Republic of China led by Mr Liu Zhenhua Vice Chairman of the committee are present in the gallery. I am sure that members would wish to welcome them.
Visitors — People’s Republic of China—Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee  National People’s Congress 
Visitors — People’s Republic of China—Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee  National People’s Congress 
[Volume:633;Page:5187] 
Wednesday 6 September 2006 
Madam Speaker 
 took the Chair at 2 p.m. 
Prayers 
. 
Visitors 
People’s Republic of China—Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee  National People’s Congress 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have much pleasure in informing the House that members of the Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee of the National People’s Congress of the People’s Republic of China led by Mr Liu Zhenhua Vice Chairman of the committee are present in the gallery. I am sure that members would wish to welcome them.
Hereora Dave: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — In Committee 
Hereora Dave: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:633;Page:5325] 
DAVE HEREORA (Labour) 
: 
 I take this opportunity to take a call on the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill. I will just make a few comments in relation to the comments of the previous speaker Gerry Brownlee surrounding the position of the Office of Treaty Settlements its impact and how it affects— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I am sorry to interrupt the member but the time has come for me to report progress. 
Progress reported. 
Report adopted.
Bennett Paula: Tabling of Documents — Newsletters 
Bennett Paula: Tabling of Documents — Newsletters 
[Volume:633;Page:5323] 
PAULA BENNETT (National) 
: 
 I seek leave of the House to table the  
Trans Tasman 
 which has a number of things in it like “The Nats fire up corruption charges”— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Tabling of Documents — Newsletters 
Tabling of Documents — Newsletters 
[Volume:633;Page:5323] 
Tabling of Documents 
Newsletters 
PAULA BENNETT (National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table a  
Molesworth & Featherston 
 given out today—the Governor’s edition—that speaks about the markets. It also has something about the economy and a lot about economic surveys— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
PAULA BENNETT (National) 
: 
 I seek leave of the House to table the  
Trans Tasman 
 which has a number of things in it like “The Nats fire up corruption charges”— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Bennett Paula: Tabling of Documents — Newsletters 
Bennett Paula: Tabling of Documents — Newsletters 
[Volume:633;Page:5323] 
PAULA BENNETT (National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table a  
Molesworth & Featherston 
 given out today—the Governor’s edition—that speaks about the markets. It also has something about the economy and a lot about economic surveys— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Vote: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
Vote: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
[Volume:633;Page:5323] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That order of the day No. 3 for consideration in committee of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be postponed.  
Ayes 48 
New Zealand National 48. 
Noes 71 
New Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1. 
Motion not agreed to.
Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
[Volume:633;Page:5322] 
Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill 
Procedure 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I move  
That 
order of the day No. 3 for consideration in Committee of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be postponed. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. I declare the House in Committee for consideration of— 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 Mr Assistant Speaker that was a motion. A motion is either put or is not accepted. You have just told us you have to accept it so should it not be put? It was not a request for leave. 
Ron Mark 
: Point of order— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No. The member is entitled to put the motion. I will put the motion and then the member can have his point of order. 
RON MARK (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can I clarify whether this is a motion without debate or a motion that includes debate? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No it is just a motion. 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That order of the day No. 3 for consideration in committee of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be postponed.  
Ayes 48 
New Zealand National 48. 
Noes 71 
New Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1. 
Motion not agreed to.
Mark Ron: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
Mark Ron: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
[Volume:633;Page:5323] 
RON MARK (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can I clarify whether this is a motion without debate or a motion that includes debate? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No it is just a motion.
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
[Volume:633;Page:5322] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 Mr Assistant Speaker that was a motion. A motion is either put or is not accepted. You have just told us you have to accept it so should it not be put? It was not a request for leave. 
Ron Mark 
: Point of order— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No. The member is entitled to put the motion. I will put the motion and then the member can have his point of order.
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Procedure 
[Volume:633;Page:5322] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I move  
That 
order of the day No. 3 for consideration in Committee of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be postponed. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. I declare the House in Committee for consideration of—
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Orders of the Day—Standing Orders 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Orders of the Day—Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5322] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Mr Brownlee I have made a decision. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Yes you have and it is an interesting ruling. But we have also learnt today that it is possible for any member to move the discharge of a bill at any time. I cannot think of a Standing Order that could allow the House to become more unruly than that one if every time a bill was called we were to go through that sort of process. There is always in any circumstance a desire to allow a Government to transact its business. But Governments should not ride roughshod over members of the House in the way we have had this afternoon. The Order Paper as far as I can make out was changed about 40 minutes ago. The Government casually said it had given too much leave to the people who were supposed to discuss the Insolvency Law Reform Bill so it would oblige itself by using its parliamentary majority to simply change the Order Paper. That Mr Assistant Speaker cuts right across the rights of other parties to have people in this House participate in debates at a reasonable time with reasonable notice. That is why we have a problem and frankly will continue to have a problem because we do not think it is fair that the Government goes ahead with this proposal. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you Mr Brownlee. You have made your point. Again I refer you to Standing Order 71 and I reiterate that an order of the day may be discharged or postponed. If you look at Standing Order 71(2) you will see that it states: “There is no amendment or debate on the question to discharge or postpone an order of the day.” I now declare the House in Committee for consideration of the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill.
Maharey Steve: Points of Order — Orders of the Day—Standing Orders 
Maharey Steve: Points of Order — Orders of the Day—Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5321] 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 The interesting debate we have in front of us here is that Mr Brownlee who it has been suggested is trifling with the Chair is defending himself by saying that to change the Order Paper is somehow something that he should now indulge himself in moral outrage about. I direct his attention to Standing Order 71 which states: “(1) An order of the day may be discharged or postponed—(a) on motion without notice or (b) by the member in whose name the order stands informing the Clerk accordingly. (2) There is no amendment or debate on the question to discharge or postpone an order of the day.” I have been here for 16 years and I have seen that done by both Governments on a number of occasions. If other members have decided they want to cause some disruption in the House it sometimes does result in the kind of thing we have seen from Mr Brownlee but there is no Standing Order that states it cannot be done. Therefore the views I am hearing from members around the Chamber hold water: that this is clearly being done by Mr Brownlee because he personally just does not like it and therefore essentially wants to trifle with the House at this time in order to take up time. The Standing Order is there; he knows that. He has been here for a shorter time than me but a long enough time to know that. Mr Brownlee is the shadow Leader of the House and he understands the Standing Order. He knows it is there; he can read it. So clearly Mr Brownlee is doing what members say he is doing. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you. I am going to rule. I have looked at Standing Order 71. It provides for any member to move the postponement of an order of the day. A Minister did so and the House has agreed that the order of the day be postponed. It is the decision of the House; the House has made that decision. I declare the House in Committee—
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Orders of the Day—Standing Orders 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Orders of the Day—Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5321] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you would be kind enough to give us an indication of how you view the Government’s practice of without notice deciding to change the Order Paper in order to accommodate its own business. This is a House of Representatives. It is a House where the balance of votes is reasonably finely tuned and members should expect to be able to make their various arrangements around the Order Paper as it is provided by the Government. I realise that today has been a very bad day for the Government. It has to a large extent lost control of the House process through its own clever behaviour but to exacerbate that situation by taking the course of action that it has this afternoon invites the Opposition to use whatever mechanisms are available to it in order to protect the rights of members of Parliament. That is what I am doing. If you want to rule against that Mr Assistant Speaker that is fine. I accept that you have told me that by seeking to table the Standing Orders or Speakers’ rulings I am trifling with the Chair. It is an interesting decision but none the less I accept it. But I do ask you to reflect on the question I have put in front of you.
Barnett Tim: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
Barnett Tim: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5321] 
TIM BARNETT (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Speaker’s ruling 20/1 refers to behaviour that is trifling with the House. I suggest that Mr Brownlee’s behaviour by repeatedly seeking to table particular Standing Orders is disorderly and that under that ruling you may wish to reflect on that matter. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you. Speaker’s ruling 20/1 states: “Constantly raising trifling points of order is itself disorderly.” Mr Brownlee has raised a number of points of order. So far the House has chosen to ignore them by not giving the member leave. The member is raising trifling points of order. To continue to raise them is in itself disorderly. The member will desist. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Point of order— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I have already made a ruling on that Mr Brownlee and there the matter ends. If the member continues to raise points of order then he leaves me very little option.
Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
Tabling of Documents 
Standing Orders 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table Standing Order 62. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 63. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 64. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 65. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 66. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
PETER BROWN (Whip—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is getting ridiculous. Why do we not table the whole book? I seek leave to table the Standing Orders. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table Standing Order 67. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
RON MARK (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. At what point will this conduct of Mr Brownlee’s be deemed by the Speaker to be first trifling with the Chair second bringing the House into disrepute and third causing disorder and at what point will you eject Mr Brownlee from the House for being guilty of all of those things? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you Mr Mark. I heard what you said. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table Speaker’s ruling 128/1. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
TIM BARNETT (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Speaker’s ruling 20/1 refers to behaviour that is trifling with the House. I suggest that Mr Brownlee’s behaviour by repeatedly seeking to table particular Standing Orders is disorderly and that under that ruling you may wish to reflect on that matter. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you. Speaker’s ruling 20/1 states: “Constantly raising trifling points of order is itself disorderly.” Mr Brownlee has raised a number of points of order. So far the House has chosen to ignore them by not giving the member leave. The member is raising trifling points of order. To continue to raise them is in itself disorderly. The member will desist. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Point of order— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I have already made a ruling on that Mr Brownlee and there the matter ends. If the member continues to raise points of order then he leaves me very little option.
Brownlee Gerry: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
Brownlee Gerry: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5321] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table Speaker’s ruling 128/1. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Mark Ron: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
Mark Ron: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
RON MARK (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. At what point will this conduct of Mr Brownlee’s be deemed by the Speaker to be first trifling with the Chair second bringing the House into disrepute and third causing disorder and at what point will you eject Mr Brownlee from the House for being guilty of all of those things? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you Mr Mark. I heard what you said.
Brownlee Gerry: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
Brownlee Gerry: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table Standing Order 67. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Brown Peter: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
Brown Peter: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
PETER BROWN (Whip—NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is getting ridiculous. Why do we not table the whole book? I seek leave to table the Standing Orders. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Brownlee Gerry: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
Brownlee Gerry: Tabling of Documents — Standing Orders 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I seek leave to table Standing Order 62. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 63. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 64. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 65. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I seek leave to table Standing Order 66. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Vote: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
Vote: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be discharged. 
Ayes 48 
New Zealand National 48. 
Noes 71 
New Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1. 
Motion not agreed to.
Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill 
Discharge 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I move  
That Government order of the day No. 3 be discharged 
. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The House is the master of its own destiny. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have moved a motion. I moved that Government order of the day No. 3 be discharged. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member can move that. He must provide I understand for what is called the freight of the bill. Only the member in charge of the bill can move its discharge and he must provide an avenue for its referral back to a select committee. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Standing Order 71 “Discharge or postponement of order of the day” states: “(1) An order of the day may be discharged or postponed—(a) on motion without notice or (b) by the member in whose name the order stands informing the Clerk accordingly.” Why would there be an “or” there if—I will wait until you have finished Mr Assistant Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I understand that the member can move that motion. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I move  
That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be discharged. 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be discharged. 
Ayes 48 
New Zealand National 48. 
Noes 71 
New Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1. 
Motion not agreed to.
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I move  
That the Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill be discharged.
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
[Volume:633;Page:5320] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Standing Order 71 “Discharge or postponement of order of the day” states: “(1) An order of the day may be discharged or postponed—(a) on motion without notice or (b) by the member in whose name the order stands informing the Clerk accordingly.” Why would there be an “or” there if—I will wait until you have finished Mr Assistant Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I understand that the member can move that motion.
Robertson H V Ross: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
Robertson H V Ross: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member can move that. He must provide I understand for what is called the freight of the bill. Only the member in charge of the bill can move its discharge and he must provide an avenue for its referral back to a select committee.
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have moved a motion. I moved that Government order of the day No. 3 be discharged.
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
Brownlee Gerry: Te Arawa Lakes Settlement Bill — Discharge 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I move  
That Government order of the day No. 3 be discharged 
. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The House is the master of its own destiny. Is there any objection to that course of action being taken? There is.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I have already ruled Mr Brownlee.
Robertson H V Ross: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Robertson H V Ross: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I refer members to page 164 of the third edition of  
Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand 
 by David McGee. Under the heading “Discharge on motion” it states: “An order of the day may be discharged on motion. Such a motion does not require notice and is moved immediately the order of the day is called by the Clerk.” That is where we are now. I now call on Government order of the day No. 3.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 The option is there of course for New Zealand First if it does not know what to do to abstain when the motion is put.
Robertson H V Ross: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Robertson H V Ross: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you Mr Brown— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: May I speak to that? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member may speak to it then I want to raise another issue with the House.
Brown Peter: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brown Peter: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5319] 
PETER BROWN (Whip—NZ First) 
: 
 The discharge of a bill is quite a serious issue and to do it without any consultation with any other party is a very serious issue. New Zealand First members would have listened more intently to Mr Brownlee or taken him a bit more seriously if he had had the courtesy to come and talk to New Zealand First beforehand. We are in no position to say one way or the other whether New Zealand First is united on what he wants and I suggest that that applies to all the parties. I think Mr Brownlee should respect the convention of the House that one deals through the whips to put an issue to the respective parties. Then he might get a more harmonious answer. To ask us to discharge a bill just because he has stood up and asked us to do so is really not acceptable.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 With respect Mr Speaker— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is this a point of order? I have actually ruled Mr Brownlee. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: You have told me what you understand the rulings are but you do not make any reference to the Standing Orders to back up your position. [ 
Interruption 
] The member on the other side of the House says that I am challenging the Speaker. I am not. I am protecting the rights that members of Parliament are granted under the Standing Orders that we all agree to operate under. I say to Mr Cosgrove that no one member of this House is more or less elected than anybody else and we cannot have the Speaker deciding that the Standing Orders are there for the exclusive use of the Government. That is not what the Standing Orders say. I cannot find a Standing Order that states that an item on the Order Paper can be discharged only if it has been called and I cannot find a ruling in  
Speakers’ Rulings  
to that effect so they cannot exist. All I am asking is that my motion which is properly put is considered by the House.
Robertson H V Ross: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Robertson H V Ross: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you Mr Brownlee. The motion is out of order. An order of the day can be discharged only if it has been called. A simple motion to discharge can be moved only by the member in charge.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 Mr Assistant Speaker if I was challenging your ruling then presumably you would have ruled that only the Government can use Standing Order 71. If that is what you have ruled then let us get that in writing and let us make that the new rule.
Cosgrove Clayton: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Cosgrove Clayton: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister for Building Issues) 
: 
 There is one point that the member overlooks—you have ruled Mr Assistant Speaker. You are in charge here not him. Until that changes he cannot change the rules. As I understand it you have ruled and he is challenging your ruling. He has a course of action he can pursue on that but he cannot challenge your ruling.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 With all due respect to the senior Labour whip why on earth does he presume that the provisions of the Standing Orders do not apply to all members? What is it that gives the Government members the presumption that the Standing Orders are there only for them?
Barnett Tim: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Barnett Tim: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
TIM BARNETT (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 In relation to this matter my understanding is that it is in the power of the House to decide whether an item of business is taken. The Minister moved that the second Government order of the day be delayed. The House has voted on that and it has been delayed. Now we should move on to the third Government order of the day.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I will read you Standing Order 71(1): “An order of the day may be discharged or postponed—(a) on motion without notice or”—and this is the salient point—“(b) by the member in whose name the order stands informing the Clerk accordingly.” That means anyone. There is no restriction here on the moving of that motion and I so move. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you Mr Brownlee. I understand it can be discharged only if it is called and the bill has not been called. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: With all due respect Mr Assistant Speaker can you point to the Standing Order that says that? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The practice is a convention of the House and it has been for some time. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Mr Assistant Speaker with all due respect it used to be a convention that people had to wear morning suits in this House—that changed because someone stopped wearing one. To say that the Standing Orders are subject to the whim of the day is quite wrong. This is a Standing Order that does not disempower any member from moving accordingly. National Party members know why the Government has taken this action today and we do not like it. The Standing Orders are not there for the Government; they are there for Parliament and for parliamentarians. So Mr Assistant Speaker I ask you to put my motion.
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
Brownlee Gerry: Points of Order — Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill—Order of the Day Discharged 
[Volume:633;Page:5318] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 In accordance with Standing Order 71 I move  
That the Electoral (Integrity) Amendment Bill be discharged. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I understand that it can be done only by leave. So the question is—
Vote: Business of the House 
Vote: Business of the House 
[Volume:633;Page:5317] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the motion be agreed to. 
Ayes 71 
New Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1. 
Noes 48 
New Zealand National 48. 
Motion agreed to.
Business of the House 
Business of the House 
[Volume:633;Page:5317] 
Business of the House 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour) 
: 
 Under Standing Order 71 I move  
That Government order of the day No. 2 for the interrupted debate on the second reading of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill be postponed. 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the motion be agreed to. 
Ayes 71 
New Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; United Future 3; Progressive 1. 
Noes 48 
New Zealand National 48. 
Motion agreed to.
Dyson Ruth: Business of the House 
Dyson Ruth: Business of the House 
[Volume:633;Page:5317] 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour) 
: 
 Under Standing Order 71 I move  
That Government order of the day No. 2 for the interrupted debate on the second reading of the Insolvency Law Reform Bill be postponed.
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Vote: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:633;Page:5317] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Employment Relations Amendment Bill be now read a third time. 
Ayes 68 
New Zealand Labour 50; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1. 
Noes 51 
New Zealand National 48; United Future 3. 
Bill read a third time.
Hereora Dave: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Hereora Dave: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:633;Page:5317] 
DAVE HEREORA (Labour) 
: 
 I too would like to take a short call in support of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill and really get back to its intention in terms of offering protections to vulnerable workers. What does that really mean? It means that vulnerable workers such as cleaners and those who work in food services will be allowed to continue to receive their terms and conditions of employment on transfer. 
It is important that they continue to receive their terms and conditions of employment on the transfer of their employment because so often in the past we have witnessed the employers of those workers—many of whom have worked in excess of 15 to 30 years—go into a liquidation situation and those workers have lost their service-related entitlements overnight. There would be no redundancy and no reason at all for doing that other than that the contractor has gone broke. So this bill represents a huge change in ensuring that those protections are in place. I commend the bill to the House.
Beyer Georgina: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Beyer Georgina: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:633;Page:5316] 
GEORGINA BEYER (Labour) 
: 
 I am pleased to take a brief call on the third reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill. I think it is pertinent to remind members of at least one aspect of the bill that is important which is the fact that it will protect specified vulnerable employees such as cleaners and food and catering service workers. The terms and conditions of employment of those specified employees have successively been undermined where that work—and they do work—is contracted out or passed on to another business the contract is sold or transferred or the work is brought back in-house. 
Some of the speeches we have heard here this evening from members of the Opposition betray any talk of their caring for those members of the workforce or any other workers for that matter with crocodile tears— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Stop making it up! 
GEORGINA BEYER 
: —and the kinds of throw-off comments that the deputy leader of the National Party chooses to make by interjection. Those members do not give a stuff about the workers of this country—they never have! What have their speeches consisted of? They want to think about the business people alone. What about the people who clean the office of that member opposite? In fact those workers look after us all here in Parliament. This is the kind of achievement a bill like this put forward by this Government can make for the real workers in this country. Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker.
Yates Dianne: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Yates Dianne: Employment Relations Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:633;Page:5311] 
DIANNE YATES (Labour) 
: 
 I rise to speak to and support the third reading of the Employment Relations Amendment Bill which is otherwise known as the “Vulnerable Workers Bill”. I thank the previous speaker Hone Harawira for his support of the bill as well. As he has rightly said it is about job security for the most vulnerable workers in this country. They are the people as he said who work while many of us sleep and who are doing the jobs that many of us do not want to do. 
Many of those people are new New Zealanders who are trying to forge a new life for their families and give their kids a chance in New Zealand. They are working extremely hard as we know. They are laundry workers—people from the Service and Food Workers Union mostly—people working in the aged-care sector caretakers and a whole range of people. Those people are working very very hard and they do a lot to keep the wheels of this country moving and growing so I was absolutely surprised to hear some of the derogatory speeches from the Opposition side of the House. 
I wish to commend this bill and say that it is long overdue—its issues have been around for some time. I am really pleased that the bill is now at its third reading stage and I commend it to the House.
Fairbrother Russell: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fairbrother Russell: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:633;Page:5297] 
9.  
RUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development and Employment 
: What reports if any has he received in regard to the future of New Zealand’s unemployment rate? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
: 
 I have seen a report that states: “Labour’s claim that it can bring the unemployment rate down to 3 percent is also a hoax on all the people who think if they voted Labour they would get a job.” That was Bill English in 1999 when the unemployment rate was running at double the current record low rate of 3.6 percent. No doubt National also agrees with ANZ chief economist Cameron Bagrie who told Radio New Zealand on 11 August that maybe in order to curb inflation it would be better if unemployment rises. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: What other reports has he seen where commentators have just got it wrong? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am pleased to see a report in the  
Timaru Herald 
 today that corrects the misleading statements of National’s Jo Goodhew. Although Labour has reduced the number of people on benefits in Timaru from 5085 under National to 3564 now—a reduction of 1521 clients or 30 percent—Jo Goodhew was telling her constituents the complete opposite of that. Instead of celebrating success it is sad that all National can do is misinform people and bag New Zealand at home and abroad.