Faafoi Kris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Faafoi Kris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 21 June 2012. Volume:681;Page:3227. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
10. 
KRIS FAAFOI (Labour—Mana) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Does she stand by all the statements she made to the Law and Order Committee yesterday? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Police) 
: 
 Yes. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Why did she yesterday tell the select committee no less than four times that Budget 2012 did not represent a cut in real terms to police operational funding when patently it does? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Because it did not. The police received a similar budget to the previous year other than carry-overs and that is the same amount of money. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: When the police told the select committee that inflation was likely to push up their costs by $24 million this year and the police operational funding goes up by only $8.891 million does that not represent in real terms—that is taking inflation into account—a cut of over $15 million this year? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Because this Government lives in the real world where we are in the middle of a global world recession and the police as I said yesterday— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is apparent to me that in the Minister’s answer so far she is not addressing a very straightforward and clear question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I think the member has asked a very straight question. I think the answer should address the question first rather than get into broader discussion. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: As I said in answer to that question in the Law and Order Committee yesterday the police have received the same amount of money. They have been asked to live within their budget like every other ministry and department. That in no way represents a cut which is a withdrawal of money from the Budget. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I had this problem four times in the select committee yesterday; I am having it again in the House today. Either it does represent a cut in real terms or it does not and I cannot get an answer from that Minister. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! It seems to me the remedy is in asking the right question. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I think the issue being pursued seems to be what the Minister said yesterday and I have got no idea what the Minister said yesterday. But it seems the problem is the Minister is answering in terms of actual dollars—in terms of cuts—and the member asking the question is trying to establish that if there is not a full adjustment for inflation that represents a cut. Now that is a debatable matter and obviously the question has to be very clear if the member is to be able to pin the Minister down and it must not leave any wriggle room. So I do not believe I can pull the Minister up yet because I have not yet heard a question that leaves no wriggle room in terms of what is actually being asked. It is no use hypothesising about whether things were adjusted for inflation. If the question is asking about cuts the Minister has answered about cuts and if the member wants to ask whether the Budget was inflation-adjusted he should ask that. That is a different question. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You understand and I understand what the term “in real terms” meant. There was no room for wriggle room. The Minister is not answering the question— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I did not hear the member ask a question as to whether the budget in real terms was a cut. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well if he did I invite him to repeat his question. I will listen very carefully. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: When the police told the committee that inflation this year could be expected to add $24 million in costs to the police and that operational funding increases by only $8.892 million does that not represent a cut of over $15 million in operational funding in real terms? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The difficulty is that it is what is called estimates. So there is an estimate of what inflation might be and in the real world you have to wait and see what happens. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I seek leave to table a number of documents. The first document is a transcript of yesterday’s inquiries of the Minister about cuts in real terms— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Can I just check. This was in public— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Yes it was in public. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is already available to members then so we do not table that. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: This is a partial transcript. I can table if you like the whole CD-Rom— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! All members have access to that material so we do not—[ 
Interruption 
] Oh I beg your pardon. I beg your pardon; the business has not been reported yet. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I seek the leave of the House to table answers to questions Nos 150 and 155 to the Law and Order Committee Vote Police 2012-13 where the police indicate quite clearly that the extra costs may represent $24 million and that is in response to a second question that said: “Was there an increase or a decrease in real level of funding?”. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a document from the Office of the Auditor-General briefing—just one clause—that backs up the figure of $8.892 million being the increase that the police get when their costs have gone up by $24 million. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! That kind of interjection is not appropriate. 
Kris Faafoi 
: Do personnel costs equate to 71 percent of the current total expenditure budgeted in 2012-13 for police? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I understand that is correct. 
Kris Faafoi 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is a question that I put to the Minister in select committee yesterday and she refused—I was actually prevented from asking it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member will resume his seat. This is question time today. The member asked a question; the Minister answered it. There is no point of order I can see available. The member may ask further supplementary questions. 
Kris Faafoi 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am just wondering what kind of remedy I have— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! It is very simple. This is question time. The member can ask further questions that focus in on what the Minister said yesterday. There is nothing wrong with that but the member does not take the time of the House with points of order when his question was answered perfectly appropriately. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You could possibly have added the advice to the member that if he had received an incorrect answer with regard to confidentiality of the information yesterday at the select committee he should complain now about a breach of privilege. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: He should not. The shadow Leader of the House has been in this place now as long as I have and he knows that those sorts of issues are not raised by way of point of order in this House. He should know that. 
Kris Faafoi 
: Given the fiscal pressures police face can she guarantee that there will not be a cut in front-line police staffing and the closure of police stations? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Those questions were answered quite clearly to the member yesterday. The commissioner has made it very clear that there are no plans to close any police stations. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: When the police cut staff and services because they need to find savings because of the rising costs that they face will she accept responsibility for that because she failed to stand up for her portfolio and at least get compensation for rising costs; or will she blame the police saying it is operational responsibility? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Quite the contrary. As I explained yesterday in the select committee the police are working through the Policing Excellence in a number of different ways. They are using 21st century technology which has meant that much of the entry work and the bookwork is able to be done while out on the streets while the police are still out in the community without having to come back to police stations and fill in forms and use carbon paper. That means that has freed up a lot of the jobs in the back-room office that used to be done. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If you recall my question it was— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member’s question was so loaded with his views on matters that it did not comply with the Standing Orders and therefore he cannot expect me to ask the Minister to comply any more than he did in asking his question.