Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 17 October 2012. Volume:684;Page:5888. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
8. 
JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development 
: What vulnerabilities were identified in the report prepared by Dimension Data on the security of the Work and Income kiosks? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development) 
: 
 The Dimension Data report found an issue with the lack of network separation whereby the kiosks were connected directly to the Ministry of Social Development network meaning that sensitive documents were accessible from the kiosks. This report sparks the obvious question of whether this issue was addressed and the problems fixed and given the situation we are now in it is clear that they were not. This is why the chief executive and I decided to release this information publicly yesterday in an effort to be upfront and honest about what we are actually dealing with. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Did she receive any reports either verbal or written on vulnerabilities within the ministry’s systems at the time that that report was prepared? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: No. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: What did her monitoring of the roll-out of her new automated systems involve given this is what she undertook she would do in 2009? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: That monitoring of those systems was more than just the kiosks actually. As you can see we have got My Account where people can now access their own information online and we have about 12 percent who actually go into the kiosks— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: The Minister was looking at their accounts? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Oh let us not be ridiculous Trevor Mallard like you like to be. So what we have got now is we have got—so that whole question of we are going more online was about more than just the kiosks; it was about a range of information. I was advising the Minister that we would be looking at how quickly that is rolled out and what the cost is and that is exactly what we have done. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I was very specific in my question around what the monitoring exactly entailed. I would have liked the Minister to address the substantive part of that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well I think the member’s questioning is in fact serious and is appropriate questioning. I think it should be treated with more respect by the member’s colleagues. The member’s colleagues sought to interject and the Minister responded to those interjections. I am not going to now ask the Minister to ignore all of that and give a precise answer. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Oh just protecting the weak Ministers. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member knows he cannot do that. I am not sure on what basis the member the Hon Trevor Mallard thinks that that is appropriate. I am not going to ask the member to leave. I do not want to give the member that dignity. I just want him to know how childish I think that is. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Did Dimension Data contact the ministry to correct the chief executive’s claim that it had not reported on vulnerabilities in the system or did someone within the ministry check the report? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I first saw the report on Monday night at about 8 o’clock. It had been seen that day. It was after 1 o’clock when we had done the press conference. It was then brought to our attention that without a doubt it had raised this particular issue. By quarter past 9 the next morning we had put out a press release letting everyone know that. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was specifically who identified that the report had found the vulnerabilities but that was not reported. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member may repeat her question. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Did Dimension Data contact the ministry to correct the chief executive’s claim that it had not reported on vulnerabilities in the system or did someone within the ministry go back and check the report? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: As far as I know there was not a phone call from Dimension Data but I do not know that. There may have been. But as I say it was first brought to my attention that night and as a consequence we put the press release out the next morning. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Is public confidence in her ministry’s management of sensitive data an operational issue? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I think the confidence of this is everyone’s issue and it is one that I am taking very very seriously. It has been undermined. I think it is appalling that this information has been accessed. I have done everything I can since knowing this on Sunday evening to make sure that we get to the bottom of it we fix it and we make sure it never ever happens again. 
Metiria Turei 
: When the Minister said yesterday concerning the Work and Income New Zealand kiosk security breach: “I have not leaked private information about individuals.” does she deny that in July 2009 she instructed her staff to release the benefit details of two women on the DPB without their permission prompting a Human Rights Commission investigation into her actions and the Director of Human Rights Proceedings finding that she had deliberately breached these women’s privacy? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have some difficulty with this supplementary question because it bears no relationship whatsoever to the vulnerabilities identified in the report by Dimension Data. I am thinking back on the Minister’s answers today and the Minister has not mentioned any of those issues in her answers. I do not want to deprive the member of her supplementary question. I invite the member to ask another supplementary question that really relates to the primary question. 
Metiria Turei 
: How can it be anything but a clear failure of her leadership when she has legitimised the breach of privacy by her ministry by having previously done so herself without remorse and when she has failed to demonstrate any oversight of ongoing breaches of privacy by not ensuring that her ministry fixed major security problems brought to its attention not once not twice but now three times in 2 years? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I have not leaked any information or any beneficiaries’ information. That member may struggle with that but I transparently put it out there and did it myself without any private comment. I know that the Opposition struggles with that because those members prefer to pass little notes under doorways to the media and everything else. I point-blankly went out there and said what I said. So there has been no leak from me. 
Metiria Turei 
: Given the Minister’s assurances to the public that she was mortified by the breach by the ministry and that she was looking for the utmost transparency in dealing with the issue how can she expect New Zealanders to have any confidence at all that a Minister who would deliberately release private information of people who question her policy without their consent can be trusted to oversee any kind of privacy management in the ministry? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: We have a serious system flaw that this Government has taken very seriously. We have taken action—the best and the quickest that we possibly can. We will not undermine it. Actually that member is not the only one who gets to wring their hands and do angst. We are very concerned on this side and are taking it very seriously.