te Heuheu Georgina: Legal Services Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee 
te Heuheu Georgina: Legal Services Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee 
[Volume:630;Page:2042] 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (National) 
: 
 Is Ron Mark not a clever boy then? He can stand up there without any notes with just a blank page in front of him and he can make a great speech—according to him. What a clever boy is he not? 
Hon Member 
: Put him in your pocket and take him home. 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: No thank you; I have better choices. I would suggest to Ron Mark that he remember his first year in this place and his first few speeches in the House. The people who he is ridiculing here tonight— 
Ron Mark 
: They are lawyers. 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: It does not matter in the least whether one was a lawyer teacher or farmer before coming here. Standing and making speeches in the House is not necessarily the same for a lawyer as making a speech out there in the forum he or she is used to. Anyway is he not a clever boy? He should be a little bit generous and realise that some members in here are still finding their feet. He used to do that when he was here in his first year. He used to have notes too—we all did. There is no shame in standing there and having notes. He should not put an argument down just because a member cannot do it from a blank piece of paper. We are not all clever like Ron Mark but of course he is feeling extra clever because he has latched himself on to the Government. That member probably does not even like the Government but for whatever reasons his party has this time around latched itself on. 
I come back to the bill though. Labour likes to suggest and likes to pretend that it is a party for the poor the disadvantaged the low-income person and all of those things. We know that it is not. In terms of access to justice it proved itself not to be the party for disadvantaged and low-income people when it put court fees up by a huge amount 3 years ago. Which people most suffer from that? It is the ordinary man and woman in the street. Ordinary New Zealanders are the ones who feel the brunt of those high court fees today. It is a little bit rich when Labour members want to turn this debate—their Committee stage contributions—into a debate about National looking after its rich friends. They should get over it; they should get rid of that envy. It is no sin to be well off. Actually a lot of people work hard to be well off. So let us not focus National arguments on that issue because that is not that issue at all. 
I worry that if senior experienced defence lawyers are leaving that work to more junior people—which they are entitled to do—then who will suffer the most from that? It is probably the relatives of Ron Mark myself Hone Harawira Pita Paraone and other Maori in this House. It is probably our relatives who suffer most if legal aid work is not properly compensated for. I see Russell Fairbrother nodding. He knows that because a large part of his defence representation was of low-income and disadvantaged people. So he knows very well who is likely to be affected first by those changes that do not adequately take into account the fact that poor people are entitled to access to justice. 
Part of that access to justice is the role of the legal profession. Steve Chadwick knows that very well. She knows how hard her husband John Chadwick has worked in the years he has been in the law profession representing those on low income the disadvantaged—all the underdogs. I am sure that she knows very well how much of a burden that has been to her family because it ain’t no Christmas party. It is all very well for one of the members on the other side to suggest that lawyers in private practice can make up for what they are missing out on with legal aid work by basically charging high fees for other things. That does not apply to a lot of defence lawyers who take on that work—it does not apply in the least. If one is a lawyer whose practice is largely Maori based and criminal work one never makes up for it. Believe me one never makes up for it. 
So I say to those members on the other side who like to pass off National members’ arguments on the grounds that we are looking after our rich friends we are not. I certainly am not.