Sepuloni Carmel: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeSepuloni Carmel: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 29 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5461. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour—Kelston): Kia ora Mr Chair. I am going to try to use as much Māori language in this speech as possible given that it is Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori. I did just ask my colleague Peeni Henare how to say “vanity project” in Māori but he said that there is no such word as “vain” in Māoridom because there is no vanity in Māoridom. I take that on board. But what there is a translation for in Māori is “no ears” which is taringa kāhore and that is our Government. It has not been listening. It has not been listening to the public. It has been ignoring the fact that Kiwis do not want to change the flag—70 percent of Kiwis said that they do not want to change the flag and that Government is saying: “We’re giving them an option.” If it was really truly interested in giving Kiwis an option then the first question would be: “Do you want to change the flag?”. But no we have had Maggie Barry standing up in the Chamber and saying: “That would be just too confusing for New Zealanders. Surely they wouldn’t understand it if we asked them first: ‘Do you want to change the flag?’ ”.I think that Maggie Barry and the National Government underestimate New Zealanders actually. I wonder what is going to happen when we look at the commencement part of this bill in clause 2 where it says: “If in the second flag referendum the current New Zealand Flag gains a greater number of votes than the alternative flag design then sections 69 70 and 71 do not commence.” Does the Government not think that there are going to be a lot of New Zealanders out there saying: “Well what was the point of spending that other $6.8 million?”. There are going to be a lot of New Zealanders saying: “OK you have dumped the whole thing. You have now wasted not only our time but our good taxpayer dollars on two referendums when that was completely unnecessary.”Looking at the purpose of this bill we see that there are going to be two postal referendums held to enable electors to decide whether New Zealand should have a new flag. Well if that was the case then actually the first referendum question should be: “Do you want a new flag?”—very clear. So actually I think the Government is going to have to revisit this purpose clause because if that really was the purpose the first question would be: “Do you want to change the flag?”. We have seen that there has been a lack of interest from the general public in respect of this issue. No one is showing up to the meetings and I think we have got information here that just over 700 people turned up to public meetings on the flag consideration project. That cost $208500 for venues and a further $200000 for the panel members’ fees for them to be there. New Zealanders are thinking: “What a waste of our money.” The average cost per person who turned up was $550 each or $2300 each once advertising is included.I think that there are a lot of New Zealanders out there thinking: “Just give us the cash rather than force us to show up for these really boring meetings about things that we are not interested in.” or for the majority of people they would be showing up to say: “We don’t want this to happen.” Actually the only way that that Prime Minister could get a good audience on this issue was to arrange to go to secondary schools where those students had no choice but to sit there in the hall and listen to him talk about the flag. I know this because my own son texted me a few weeks ago and said: “Mum guess who’s at our school? John Key.” I said: “What’s he there for?” and he said: “To talk about the flag.”—to talk about the flag. A low-decile school a room full of Māori and Pacific boys—there must be so many more important things to talk to them about but what was he there to talk to them about? The flag. Why was he there? It was the only way he could get a guaranteed audience. The only way he could get a guaranteed audience was to show up at schools.Members on that side of the Chamber know that this is unpopular. They have seen the New Zealand Herald poll. They would have done their own internal polling. New Zealanders are looking at them and thinking: “There are so many more serious issues to be considering and you’re concerned about changing a flag.” As my colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard has said and a few of my other colleagues in the Chamber have also said it today it is not that we are all necessarily opposed to changing the flag; it is just that this is not the right time.Clearly this is not the issue of the day for New Zealanders. There is a lot more on the minds of New Zealanders and my New Zealand First colleague pointed this out. What is on the minds of New Zealanders? Um housing—yes? What is on the minds of New Zealanders? Um the fact that our prisons are unsafe—yes? What is on the minds of New Zealanders? Poverty and the fact that nothing that the Government has done has done anything to lift children out of poverty. What else is on the minds of New Zealanders? The failed charter schools and a National Government that is failing to listen.So before I finish this speech I just want to use some more Te Reo Māori. I just want to say that this is one of the many mistakes that the National Government has made so the word for that is hapamaha which means multiple mistakes. Hapamaha—multiple mistakes. Can we say it together? Hapamaha.