Cunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Cunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 13 September 2012. Volume:683;Page:5219. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
8. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour—New Lynn) 
 to the  
Minister for Economic Development 
: Does he agree with Finance Minister Hon Bill English that “In the past 2 years however almost 60000 net new jobs have been created”? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development) 
: 
 I note that the Minister of Finance has already answered exactly the same question from the member’s senior colleague David Parker today but I am happy to repeat it briefly: 57000 more people do have a job now than did 2 years ago. That is according to the household labour force survey seasonally adjusted which is the standard internationally recognised measure of employment and unemployment. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Why then did he tell the House in answer to oral question No. 9 on Tuesday: “We are currently seeing around 250000 jobs created every year and slightly fewer than that being lost every year.” when Statistics New Zealand’s best measure of job creation showed a net loss for the period 2008 to 2011? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I am not sure what the member means by the best measure. I assume that he is talking about—is it the household labour force survey or the linked employer-employee data? The household labour force survey is the official measure. Employment did decline due to a thing called the global financial crisis which I appreciate on “Planet Labour” did not occur. In the last 2 years it has grown by 57000 jobs. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Does he agree with the Prime Minister John Key that the household labour force survey is “notoriously volatile” and “an unusual survey” and with Statistics New Zealand which says that the household labour force survey is “not an accurate measure of job creation”? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I am not aware of the Prime Minister’s quote in that regard but I can again repeat for the member that Statistics New Zealand describes the household labour force survey thus: “[It] is a nationwide quarterly survey and is the official measure of employment and unemployment in New Zealand. It has been providing the only comprehensive and ongoing picture of the labour force since it began in October 1985.” I appreciate the member is casting around to try to find some more negative numbers but actually the household labour force survey shows a creation of 57000 more people in jobs now than 2 years ago. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Does he agree with the Minister of Finance that the household labour force survey excludes self-employed workers or with Statistics New Zealand which says the reverse? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I do not recall the particular quote that he attributes to the Minister of Finance. What I can say is that the linked employer-employee data set does exclude the non-PAYE jobs he refers to. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I seek leave to table a transcript of the Minister of Finance’s interview on Radio New Zealand this morning in which he made the statement that the Minister was unaware of— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Recent radio transcripts like that are available to all members. Supplementary question Andrew Williams. [ 
Interruption 
] No look I have called Andrew Williams for a supplementary question. 
Andrew Williams 
: How does he explain the fact that between the second quarter of 2010 and the second quarter of 2012 the household labour force survey recorded a total of 57000 new jobs yet the National Employment Indicator during the same period recorded only 33245 new jobs? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I may be able to help the member in that regard. I understand that the National Employment Indicator is an experimental series that does leave some matters out. If he goes to Statistics New Zealand I think it will tell him. Again I would stress that the household labour force survey is the official measure of employment and unemployment. I think the point the member may be seeking to make is that either way the number is not big enough and certainly from the Government’s perspective we are looking for measures to see stronger growth. That is why we are putting all the effort into the Business Growth Agenda with items such as oil and gas exploration the intensification of agriculture international investment and the convention centre. I note that the— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! This is all beyond the question actually asked. 
Andrew Williams 
: Why has the Government stopped publishing both the linked employer-employee data set and the National Employment Indicator? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I really do not know the answer to that question. I can tell the member though that Statistics New Zealand is pretty notoriously independent so I am pretty sure that if it wanted to publish something like that it of course would. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Which data set would the Minister choose to use to deny the reality that the unemployment rate continues to rise and that more children in South Auckland are going to school with hungry tummies? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I am not sure that I agree with that member’s characterisation of either of his questions. What I would say to the member is that no doubt about it times have been tough for the world New Zealand is doing better than most and we are seeking to do better again. Our economy is 2.5 percent larger than it was last year. 
Grant Robertson 
: You used to be ambitious for New Zealand. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: We are ambitious for New Zealand. If he would like to wander over to Europe or to America he will see an entirely different perspective on what is going on in the New Zealand economy. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I seek leave to table a document from the Parliamentary Library that shows that average incomes have risen but median incomes have fallen that inequality has risen and that the children of the poorest are more in poverty. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document from the Parliamentary Library. Is there any objection? There is objection.