Collins JudithHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections): Thank you Mr Chair—thanks for the opportunity to contribute to this very important bill. I just want to take the opportunity to correct a little bit of information. Mr Ball told the Committee that police are responsible for monitoring child sex offenders when they leave prison. Well that is incorrect and I think we just need to correct that. But there is another point I want to make about this. I am very concerned about some of the rhetoric around having a public and open register. I think it is one of those questions and issues that might seem very compelling at first glance but one of the problems is that it does give for a start a very false hope and a false sense of security—even having a register. I fully support the register because to me it is an opportunity for Child Youth and Family—or whatever its equivalent is—and many other agencies to understand that they actually are placing a child in a home with a child sex offender which otherwise they might not know if they do not have the information. It is really important that we have that information across Government—across the official agencies with responsibility. But I think one of the very sad comments that I have heard is just the number of people who are child sex offenders being released out into the community. You know we are talking about 250 in a year. That is an appalling statistic for New Zealand. I would say on the good side that it means that those people were caught that they were held to account that they did in fact receive justice and that they will have received rehabilitation as well in most cases. But what that tells me too is that there are probably a large number who are not caught and who are not actually held to account. We do get quite a lot of talk about where child sex offenders live. Some people want to have a register open so that they can know where every one is. Actually child sex offenders are more likely to be living in one's home along with the child whom they are sexually offending. They are not so likely—although it does happen—to be living in the park waiting to molest little children as they come to play. They are far more likely to be in positions of responsibility. They might be members of Parliament. They might be counsellors. They might be psychologists. They might be defence personnel. They might even be dare I say police or corrections staff. Do you know what? That is actually what has happened in the past. They might even be diplomats. We have certainly had situations like that. There are people who are child sex offenders right throughout society. They do not have little horns on their heads. They do not have tattoos on them saying I'm a child sex offender." In most cases they are actually people who are highly manipulative and able to gain people's trust—often gaining the trust of mothers often gaining the trust of families particularly vulnerable families who seek out and want someone to help them with their children or to be a mentor for their children. Some of these people are highly manipulative people. Actually it is all right to say well we have a public register. Then we get—what—vigilantism and that is absolutely not something that we should be seeking. We should also be trying to get people who are child sex offenders once they are released to actually continue with therapy because what we know is that quite a lot of the work that goes on in rehabilitation in this area can actually be very successful. It is an area where we have had huge success particularly at Rolleston Prison. Sometimes people do not realise that. It is an area where change can be brought about. It is not that people no longer identify sexually with children but it is that they do not act on it. That is what we want. We want people not to act on that sort of behaviour. It is wrong to think that child sex offenders are not everywhere. I support the fact that I want agencies that have responsibility to know. I also want the situation that if somebody worries that somebody in their family or someone who is living in their house might be acting around their child in a way that concerns them then they should be able to come to police. The police should be able to get all the information they have and they should be able to talk to Child Youth and Family. People should be able to tell the parents what is actually going on or what is likely to be going on and take action because actually that information is so valuable. One of the things I think we need to do is give agencies the information. I have been to the police to have a look at how this is all working with the Department of Corrections and the Ministry of Social Development staff and all the other agencies working together. I was really impressed with the level of detail that they could have because it is not a public register. I would also say too that this costs money which it should do and which we actually are happy to put Budget money towards because it is so worthwhile. But let us not double up. Let us keep the information where it needs to be and let us have it detailed enough that it makes a difference."