Ardern Jacinda: State Sector Management Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Ardern Jacinda: State Sector Management Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Sitting date: 09 December 2010. Volume:669;Page:16291. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) 
: 
 I appreciate the opportunity to take my first call on the State Sector Management Bill and in particular on Part 2. I felt prompted to speak on this bill after hearing the contribution of the Minister of Internal Affairs Nathan Guy. For those members who were not here at that time I say that I was listening intently because I was seeking the purpose of the bill generally and in particular the purpose of this significant part—Part 2. I did not get any answers other than that apparently we are making this significant merger because the Minister went on a tour of the National Library and saw a leak in the roof. Apparently that is the reason we are now merging the National Library into the Department of Internal Affairs. 
We also heard from the Minister and this is something that vexed me greatly the claim that the previous Labour Government had somehow run the National Library and Archives New Zealand into the ground. I make the following point: I was not a member of the Education and Science Committee which heard the submissions on this bill but I do note as reported in the select committee’s report that one submitter who worked in this area noted that “The past management of the archives function…has an unfortunate history characterised by arrested development lack of resourcing poor understanding litigation rancour and distrust.” Another submitter commented that “Thousands of unique items that have relevance today have been lost by fire water vermin and indifference.” I think that was both a metaphorical and a literal reference and it came directly from a submitter who was referring to the 1990s—the point when as I understand it we last had a go at merging these functions. 
I ask the Minister given that in his first attempt he did not submit to the Committee why we are making this merger whether he could articulate that again for the benefit of the Committee. At the moment I see no specific point relating to those functions that demonstrates this need. In fact in seeking the reason why this might be occurring I felt inclined to draw on some other experience that I have had as a member of the Justice and Electoral Committee. We have recently undergone a similar consolidation through the Legal Services Agency. At least in that case it came off the back of a report by Dame Margaret Bazley proving that we probably needed to make significant changes in this area and that is where this consolidation occurred. Our committee was at great pains to ensure that in doing so we maintained the independence of office that was needed to maintain the public confidence in the Legal Services Agency as it stood. I do not feel I have the same confidence in the way that this merger is taking place. 
As has already been remarked the National Librarian will be a mere third-tier manager within the Department of Internal Affairs. We need to understand what that will mean at a functional level in terms of the reporting requirements of the National Librarian directly to Parliament. As a third-tier manager experience holds that when that individual comes to a select committee he or she is unlikely even to necessarily have his or her own hearing. I ask the Minister whether members of Parliament will have the ability to question and cross-examine the National Librarian directly— 
Moana Mackey 
: As they can now. 
JACINDA ARDERN 
: —as they can currently. I ask the Minister whether members of Parliament will have the ability to directly question the National Librarian. 
There is no response from the Minister but I can see by the small glint in his facial expression that he has registered my question. I hope that at some time he can clarify that for us. Perhaps he could do it in the next part when we talk about the same issue with the Chief Archivist. That is one of the most important abilities we can maintain; not only their ability to report directly to Parliament but our ability as members of Parliament to directly question them. 
I have a second question for the Minister which comes under section 9A inserted by clause 26. I would be interested to hear some explanation from the Minister on where he anticipates the National Librarian as a mere third-tier manager can use these quite strong delegation powers that have been gifted to him or her. Section 9A sets out what a delegation must include.