5. Question No. 5—EducationHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of EducationQuestion No. 5—Education5. Hon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Education: Have student numbers for student achievement component enrolments and learner numbers for industry training enrolments decreased by a total of 2402 in August 2018 compared to August 2017?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): From August 2017 to August 2018 the number of equivalent full-time students at universities increased by 970 while the actual number of students increased by 10 reflecting a shift in participation from part-time to full-time students. At polytechnics the number of equivalent full-time students decreased by 724 while the number of students increased by 678 suggesting a reverse of the pattern in universities. In wānanga the number of equivalent full-time students decreased by 498 while the number of students decreased by 1188.In private training establishments the number of equivalent full-time students was up 310 while the number of students was down 674. In industry training the standard training measure decreased by 947 while learner numbers decreased by 4740. However by contrast the number of apprenticeship standard training measures increased by 1065 while the apprenticeship learning numbers increased by 3441. The numbers in the member's question draw on aggregate student and trainee numbers rather than full-time equivalents and therefore don't reflect the shifting nature of participation.Hon Paula Bennett: Does he believe that spending $236 million so far on free fees for students who would've studied anyway is good value for the taxpayer?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I think those students and their families will be grateful for the fact that their student loan debts are significantly lower than they otherwise would have been bearing in mind that the Government would have largely covered that cost anyway had it not been for the fees-free programme because we would've had to outlay the money through the student loan scheme where we only recoup 55c in the dollar anyway. So yes I do think it was a good investment.Hon Paula Bennett: Does he believe that that $236 million would have been better spent on teachers in the education system instead of on fees-free for students that would have gone and studied anyway?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The Government has no intention of abolishing the student loan scheme which is effectively what the member is asserting. In order to not put the money that went into fees-free into something else we would have to first abolish the student loan scheme because if we did away with fees-free the students would borrow the money and the Government would have to lay it out anyway.Hon Paula Bennett: Is he still committed to expanding fees-free to a second and third year and if so will those commitments come through in 2021 and 2024 as he has previously announced?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As was clear in the Speech from the Throne that's a matter for future Budgets and for future Cabinet decisions.Hon Paula Bennett: What would the cost be of expanding the fees-free as he has previously promised would happen?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: That would depend on participation levels.