1. Prime Minister—Winter Energy Payment and Fees-free PolicyHon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader—National) to the Prime MinisterWEDNESDAY 23 MAY 2018The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.Prayers.ORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSPrime Minister—Winter Energy Payment and Fees-free Policy1. Hon PAULA BENNETT (Deputy Leader—National) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government's policies and actions?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes.Hon Paula Bennett: Can she confirm that as a result of her delay to the implementation of the winter energy payment superannuitants will be around $300 worse off this year than they would have been following National's proposed tax cuts?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Of course the member will be aware we very deliberately cancelled those tax cuts so that we could invest in the low and middle income New Zealanders who needed that investment more than the top 10 percent of income earners who would get $400 million worth. We have however identified that superannuitants experience things like winter poverty. We would have very much liked our payment to have come in earlier. It starts on 1 July and then it runs through till September. When it's fully implemented those superannuitants can expect to receive $700 as a couple—$450—but again this year it is less than that unfortunately.Hon Paula Bennett: How can she justify waiting till 1 July for the winter energy payment because as she said previously it was difficult to implement earlier and yet she could bring in a fees-free policy on 1 January worth $2.8 billion?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As the member would well know having been the Minister for Social Development making the largest changes to the welfare system in over a decade can be a complex exercise. We deliberately created a mini-Budget in December in order to expedite bringing in the winter energy payment the Best Start payment and Working for Families changes and managed to do it in a time that I think even that side of the House would have found challenging given their tax cut changes didn't come in till the following year.Hon Paula Bennett: Is the Prime Minister really leading us to believe that it would have been harder to universally give a one-off payment to all superannuitants on 1 May than it is to actually do the difficulties of different courses 294000 students on 1 January for mixed payments?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes.Hon Paula Bennett: Does she agree with education Minister Chris Hipkins that the fees-free policy will drive a 15 percent increase in student numbers?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Taking into account that we have to reverse a trend under that last Government of declining enrolment in post-secondary education which we are trying to reverse. Of course the members on the other side of the House have taken an unfortunate and narrow view of the need for us to have a greater proportion of our population in post-secondary education that includes those who have never studied before who might be factory floor workers or indeed McDonald's workers to go to wānanga or polytech to retrain boost our productivity and transform our economy.Hon Paula Bennett: Let me rephrase: does she agree with the education Minister that the fees-free policy will drive a 15 percent increase in student numbers particularly as she just said and accused us of not—SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! The member finished her question some time ago.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The point that I was making is that we had declining enrolment numbers. In fact we did point out that actually for the last year our expectations were lower than that. We know that we have to make up ground because as I've said there was a tendency for post-secondary education to start declining and we're trying to reverse that trend. I would have thought the other side of the House would be a bit more ambitious about the options for New Zealanders to retrain and educate themselves.Hon Paula Bennett: Is she concerned about the effectiveness of her flagship $2.8 billion fees-free tertiary policy given Treasury is now forecasting that there will not be a 15 percent increase not a 5 percent—SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The member's finished. She's had two legs already.Hon Paula Bennett: No I haven't. Not even no increase but instead 900 fewer students. Actually that is the relevant point Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume her seat.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again the two points I'd like to make—Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —is that this side of—Hon Gerry Brownlee: Point of order.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Gerry I've got this. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order!Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well that was clearly an interruption of a point of order so clearly you'll want to rule on that.SPEAKER: No I hadn't yet called the member.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well you had actually. The Hansard will show you had.SPEAKER: Well if that is correct I apologise to the member. The member now has the call. Would he like to make his point of order?Hon Gerry Brownlee: Yes. Your suggestion that the question is now over seems to me to fly in the face of there needing to be some verification for questions. If you want us to start writing novels before the actual question ends we can do that but some flexibility in being able to make a point with the question is not unreasonable given that everyone knows question time is a time when the Government defends itself and has a much greater opportunity to do that. That should be couched in terms of the information given or provided by the question and that's the point of verification.SPEAKER: Well I thank the member for his advice. I will listen carefully in the future. It would probably be easier to judge and less complicated if there weren't addendums before the question started as well as unnecessary information for the purpose of the question during it.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The point I was making was actually that the member is reinforcing the issue that we had. We had a declining number of people engaging in post-secondary education regardless of whether they were school leavers or those already on the factory floor. The OECD said we needed to do something about it; the IMF said we needed to do something about it—this Government is. It may take time but it will be worth it.Hon Paula Bennett: In November when her education Minister made his statement that it would increase by 15 percent did he know it was declining or is she just using that as an excuse now to break her promise?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We all knew it was declining we all knew we had to do something about it and we all know that we've got a productivity challenge in New Zealand. This side of the House is willing to take that challenge on; that side would rather see barriers to education continue.Hon Paula Bennett: So why was a $2.8 billion bribe for tertiary students more important than her promises around health education and police that she's promised?SPEAKER: No no no. I'm going to require the deputy leader of the National Party to rephrase that question in a way that she knows is within Standing Orders and she's not getting an extra question for doing it; this will be a new supplementary.Hon Paula Bennett: Why was a $2.8 billion payment for tertiary students more important than her promises around health education and police?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again a narrow view of the policy given this will have a greater potential impact for those workers who have never ever engaged in post-secondary education. But my second question: if it's a bribe will you reverse it?Hon Paula Bennett: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You ruled out a word that I wasn't to use and yet then the Prime Minister is free to use it in her answer.SPEAKER: I think the Prime Minister could well have been reflecting the inappropriate comment of the member. [Interruption] Order! Order! If members can't see a description of someone's own policy as being different from a description of another person's policy—picking up the words inappropriately used I think is not out of order. What I thought the member was going to object to was the Prime Minister's reference to the second person and I want to remind her that she should keep me out of the debate and out of the questions.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Well all things considered then do we get that question back?SPEAKER: No.Hon Paula Bennett: Why was $900 million—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order! The Opposition just lost five questions. Gerry Brownlee will stand withdraw and apologise.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker your job is to keep order in this House not to prevent the Opposition from challenging the Government on their programmes. Your repeated recall of questions from us does that and I think that is most inappropriate and bad for our democracy.SPEAKER: I want to thank the member for his advice but I will not have senior members referring to me in the way that he did by way of interjection. I do regard what he has just done as grossly disorderly and I will contemplate what will happen. I think members know that in the past anyone who made that comment would've been tossed out of the House and I don't want it to be my practice to do that—especially to a senior member of the House—but the member should know better and I will contemplate what I will do as question time goes on.Hon Paula Bennett: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think the point I do want to pick up is that I think the use of taking away and gaining supplementary questions does question our ability as the Opposition to actually put the Government on notice to actually ask the questions that we have a right to do as part of our democracy. My colleague may not have made that point as clearly as he wanted to but that's certainly how this side of the House feels.SPEAKER: Well I now regard that member as being grossly disorderly. She has again relitigated the point that I've been ruling on. The member knows well that supplementary questions are at my discretion. Any supplementary questions are at my discretion. I've chosen to use this approach. As a result of it to date the National Party have had 22 more supplementaries than they would've had according to the numbers given by the Clerk. They have done very well out of the process mainly as a result of disorderly behaviour by Mr Jones and a couple of his colleagues. But the National Party is ahead on it and I absolutely reject any suggestion that the National Party have not been able to ask the number of questions over this Parliament that they would've been able to otherwise. That's just not true.Hon Paula Bennett: Speaking to the point of order.SPEAKER: No there's no point of order. If the member wants a further supplementary she can take it. If not we'll move on.Hon Paula Bennett: No I'm leaving. What a waste of time.SPEAKER: For how long?Hon Paula Bennett: Oh just for today.SPEAKER: Thank you.