Brash Don: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Urgent Questions Questions to Members 
Brash Don: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Urgent Questions Questions to Members 
[Volume:620;Page:16002] 
3.  
Dr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she stand by her reported statement that the Te Arawa offer sets a precedent for a new style of settlement; if not why not? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Most certainly. It excludes rights to water columns and airspace as the National Government failed to do with the NgatiTuwharetoa settlement. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that an agreement was signed between Te Arawa and the Crown in 1922 as a consequence of which Parliament legislated for a settlement that was intended to be full and final; if so can she tell the House why the Government now wishes to transfer title to the lake beds to Te Arawa at the very same time that it is promoting legislation to put the seabed and foreshore into Crown ownership? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The Leader of the Opposition has tripped himself up in saying that one part of the full and final settlement should be able to opened up—that is the money—but not the other bit which is the title to the lake. Te Arawa have asserted that they never ceded ownership of the lakes. The Crown has always asserted that they were always Crown owned. In the end there has been a negotiation that is entirely consistent with the policy of a previous National Government. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Prime Minister agree that title to the lakes is symbolic only as Te Arawa will be only part of a local management committee unlike other property owners with title and has she received any reports from the leader of the National Party to support all private landholders being subject to joint management regimes; or is this one law for Maori property owners and another for general landowners? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The first part of the question is in order. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: No I would not accept that this is an entirely symbolic settlement but what I would strongly reject is the assertion from the Leader of the Opposition that significant statutory powers have been transferred. The statutory power is to recommend to the Minister of Fisheries that commercial species be added to the list. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Could the Prime Minister please explain clearly to the House and to the country why her Government believes that it is important for the coastal foreshore and seabed to be held in public ownership yet the foreshore and lake bed of the iconic Rotorua lakes should be removed from public ownership by her Government? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It is one thing to let a Court of Appeal decision stand that would see freehold title extended by the Maori Land Court into private property; it is another to freely negotiate full public access and rights in a negotiated treaty settlement. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think it is obvious to everyone on both sides of the House that that did not even attempt to answer the question and explain the difference between the two policies—why the coastal foreshore and seabed must be in public ownership yet the iconic Rotorua lakes must be taken out of public ownership. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I thought the Prime Minister addressed the question. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: If the 1922 settlement was a full and final one why is another settlement being embarked upon now and what safeguards will be included in that to prevent another settlement being sought in another 82 years’ time? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: One cannot say what future generations of New Zealand Governments may negotiate—that is obvious—but I do not think there will be anybody who would think after looking at the 1922 settlement that the outcome is fair to Te Arawa today. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Why has the Government responded to Te Arawa’s concern about the lack of an escalator clause in the annuity agreed to in 1922 by offering both a monetary settlement of $10 million and the transfer of title to the lake beds in sharp contrast with the legislation before the House to ensure the seabed and foreshore remain in Crown ownership? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The Leader of the Opposition has claimed that Arawa never asked for the title to the lakes. That is completely untrue. Its statement of claim actually included that and consistent with the previous National Government’s policy of transferring title the Government has proceeded to negotiate a settlement. What we can say—[ 
Interruption 
] Well he could not cope with the paperwork. What we can say is that this settlement is tied down in a way that the National Government utterly failed to do. 
Metiria Turei 
: Has the Prime Minister received any reports or requests from the Leader of the Opposition regarding Crown ownership of all private title to the foreshore given his reported statement in Rotorua that “Today we are sending a clear message that the lakes and the foreshore should belong to everyone.”; or is this again a position of one law for Maori and another for private title holders? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The first part of the question may be answered. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: No. The Leader of the Opposition seems very determined to protect Pakeha property rights. 
Dr Don Brash 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That question clearly misrepresented what I said yesterday in Rotorua. I said that the lakes seabed and foreshore should be in Crown ownership except where prior freehold title exists whether that be Maori or non-Maori. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has made his point of view and his word will be accepted. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm a report that the Government’s offer to transfer title to the Rotorua lake beds to Te Arawa was made with no prior negotiation and that the Te Arawa Maori Trust Board chairman had “very real concerns” about the sudden offer; if so why was that part of the settlement pursued when it was not even originally part of what was being negotiated between the Crown and Te Arawa? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Te Arawa’s statement of claim on 19 March 2001 set out as a key principle for settlement getting title to the lake beds. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are people on both sides of the House who run the risk of an early question-time departure.