4. Schools Buildings—CapacityCHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of EducationSchools Buildings—Capacity4. CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of Education: How many schools throughout New Zealand has the Ministry of Education identified as being over capacity or at risk of overcrowding?Mr SPEAKER: In calling the Hon Nikki Kaye I say that my office has been advised the answer may be longer than normal. Hon NIKKI KAYE (Minister of Education): I am advised that the ministry has a pretty crude system of identifying and classifying those schools that may have been in the past defined as over capacity or at risk of overcrowding including using roll return data which is collected only twice a year. The figures that I have are 2016 figures which are misleading and out of date. At that time there were 230 schools that it identified that were above capacity. However this categorisation does not take into account whether the school has board-owned property or is leasing property or any property solutions that are under way. The label also does not mean that a school is overcrowded or unsafe. I am advised that the ministry is confident that there are no health and safety issues in part because our property allocation is very generous compared with other countries. So a school can be at 100 percent capacity and not be overcrowded. I am also advised that in this year's Budget $8 million was announced to enhance the ministry's strategic planning capabilities to enable it to better forecast and plan for growth. Chris Hipkins: Why does she continue to deny that there is a problem when the Ministry of Education's advice to her states: Historic property responses have not been able to keep up with demand resulting in region-wide critical pressures."? Hon NIKKI KAYE: I have never stated that there is no problem but what I can tell the member is that when you look back at historical figures I am advised that over successive Governments it has been quite similar in terms of the system we have had and the numbers of schools that have been at capacity or considered at risk. But what I can tell the member is that under our Government we have put in $5 billion previously and we have got $4.85 billion coming over the next 4 years. Chris Hipkins: If over 700 schools have been identified by the ministry as overcrowded or at risk of overcrowding and the Ministry of Education is describing the situation as critical how much more evidence does she need before she will admit that the Government has failed to keep pace with demand for extra places in schools? Hon NIKKI KAYE: Well the member has not listened to any of my previous answers and it is incredibly alarmist to say that 700 schools are overcrowded. That is not correct and it is totally wrong. Chris Hipkins: How many schools are using library space gymnasiums halls or even old dental clinics as teaching spaces because they do not have enough classrooms to cope with demand? Hon NIKKI KAYE: I do not have that figure to hand but what I can say to the member is—as I have explained previously—under both successive National and Labour Governments we have always had a system where schools choose how they use their space. But we have got a generous system of property allocation and I can confirm to the member that utilisation figures in New Zealand have dropped since that member's Government was in power. Chris Hipkins: Who is responsible for ensuring that New Zealand schools have their capacity expanded to cope with the fact that the population has grown by nearly half a million in the last 9 years—is it the Government that was in power 9 years ago or the Government that is in power today? Hon NIKKI KAYE: Look the numbers in terms of population growth—I am advised that even though we have had tens of thousands more in terms of population growth the overall utilisation figure under our Government has gone down. We have invested more than $5 billion we have got $4.85 billion coming and we are futureproofing in areas like Wānaka at $19 million so we are hundreds ahead. So the point is that under our Government the situation is better but we will continue to improve it."