10. Solid Energy—Financial PositionHon DAVID PARKER (Labour) to the Minister for State Owned EnterprisesSolid Energy—Financial Position10. Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) to the Minister for State Owned Enterprises: What was Solid Energy's indebtedness (excluding performance bonds) in dollars and as a percentage of assets in December 2008 and December 2012?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Acting Minister for State Owned Enterprises): In December 2008 Solid Energy's indebtedness excluding performance bonds was $31 million or 5 percent of asset value; in December 2012 Solid Energy's indebtedness excluding performance bonds was $375 million or 41.6 percent of asset value. Solid Energy made investment decisions and incurred debt at a time when international coal prices were at record levels. Coal prices subsequently collapsed as we know from US$320 per tonne in 2011 to US$85 per tonne just a couple of years later. The falling international coal price meant there was no prospect of Solid Energy being in a position to repay or finance its bank debt.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not hear the percentage for December 2008.Mr SPEAKER: It was 5 percent.Hon David Parker: Five percent—thank you. I seek leave to table the letter from the Minister for State Owned Enterprises to the chair of Solid Energy in May 2009 requesting Solid Energy to increase indebtedness—Hon STEVEN JOYCE: You tabled it last year.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I just need to check because I think it may well have been tabled by the member earlier. Has he tabled it once before?Hon David Parker: I have not. It was a long time ago.Mr SPEAKER: On that basis I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table that particular letter. Is there any objection? There is objection.Hon David Parker: Does he still think it was prudent for the National Government to encourage higher dividends and to increase Solid Energy's debt by hundreds of millions of dollars?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I do not recall that letter saying actually that they should increase their dividends. But in any event successive Ministers for State Owned Enterprises—including in a Government not too far from here according to the Opposition—would make requests of State-owned enterprises to manage their balance sheets well and return surplus capital to the Crown. I do not think the then Minister for State Owned Enterprises was any different from any others.Hon David Parker: Why did the National Government then reject the warning from John Palmer then chair of Solid Energy that the higher debt levels the Government asked for were imprudent for companies like Solid Energy that are exposed to coal commodity price cycles?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: This is a path we have travelled down a number of times before. In fact if you go back to 2013 and look at Hansard the then Minister reminded the House that Mr Palmer the then chair made it clear that the dividend decisions are made by the board. The board takes responsibility for those dividend decisions and boards are asked to consider their debt and dividend policies as Mr Mallard then State-owned enterprises Minister did in both 2006 and 2008. Hon David Parker: What are the total losses suffered by shareholders and lenders to Solid Energy to the nearest $100 million?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I do not have that figure to hand but I can tell the member that unfortunately Solid Energy is in the company of many many many international coal companies. I have to hand—Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Hon STEVEN JOYCE: —for example an article that says—Mr SPEAKER: Order!Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I am just helping.Mr SPEAKER: I know and I appreciate that but a point of order has been raised.Hon David Parker: I know that the Minister is answering on behalf of another Minister but given that Solid Energy is in liquidation and has now sold its assets I would expect the Minister to be prepared to answer within $100 million what the losses were—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is not a point of order. The Minister answered straight away that he did not have that information. I was giving him time then to expand on that. I am the sole judge as to the length of the answer not the person who asked the question who may be dissatisfied with the answer that he has been given. Does the Minister wish to complete his answer?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Yes. [Interruption] Mr SPEAKER: Order! Iain Lees-Galloway that is the last warning I will give you.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: As I was pointing out to the member unfortunately this hit a huge number of coal companies worldwide including the top four US companies that lost 99.9 percent of their value since the collapse in coal prices. Hon David Parker: Which has been the greater example of inept mismanagement by his Government: driving Solid Energy into the ground losing over a billion dollars of value; the fire sale of the power company shares at billions of dollars below current values; bungling the finance company Crown Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme costing hundreds of millions of dollars extra; or freezing contributions to the Cullen fund costing $10 billion of losses?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well the member is probably still sad about losing that 2008 election by that list of decisions he claims the Government has made since then. This Government stands by its very strong economic and financial management record as do the people of New Zealand apparently. And I might suggest that if the member is that angry and disappointed he joins Mr Cunliffe in heading for the exit.