Shaw James: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeShaw James: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 22 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5191. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]6.JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader—Green) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his answers to Oral Question No. 4 yesterday?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Yes.James Shaw: Will he be prepared to adopt a more ambitious climate target if it can be shown how New Zealand can achieve greater emissions reductions than 11 percent by 2030 even without including agriculture?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: As I said in the House yesterday the Government has set what I think is a fair and balanced target of the 30 percent reduction of the 2005 base by 2030. I have indicated to Parliament that the Government is prepared to do more if we can find an answer to our agricultural emissions which represent about half of the emissions that New Zealand has. I think that is set in about the right place.James Shaw: Does he accept that an increase in renewable electricity generation from 80 percent to 100 percent can reduce New Zealand’s emissions by approximately 5 megatons and therefore enable New Zealand to take a more ambitious climate target to Paris?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I do not have those details with me but I will accept the member’s word that it is probably right. What I would say is that we are one of the countries in the world with the highest levels of renewable energy already. The Government’s stated goal is to get to 90 percent and we will be working hard to do that. Whether we can get to 100 percent and what the cost implications of that would be I do not know but I suspect if you look at the fact that you would have to close the Huntly power station and you would not even be able to replace Huntly with combined-cycle gas that could be a very expensive process.James Shaw: So does he agree with Ministry of Transport advice that if one-third of New Zealanders switched to electric cars we could reduce carbon emissions from transport by over 20 percent and therefore enable New Zealand to take a more ambitious climate target to Paris?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Yes the Government supports the view that electric cars have a strong place in New Zealand society and I suspect that as they get a bit cheaper you will see more people actually taking up electric cars. New Zealand is well placed for that because the electricity that would drive those cars is largely going to be renewable. So again that makes sense. But you have to look at the overall costs to consumers. We have to get to a point where they make that choice that it is economic for them to do that. We have to get to the point where we can have enough of that electricity generation coming from renewable sources. But I think the Government is working on a plan to get there on all of these matters. I stand by the view I said earlier: the Treasury advice the Government has received is that the target we have set is actually a bigger cost share to New Zealand businesses and consumers than for instance the Europeans who arguably have a bigger reduction target because it is easier for them to achieve that.James Shaw: Does he accept that if we planted half our marginal pastoral land in pine forest while letting the other half revert back to native forest we can capture up to 24 megatons of carbon thereby enabling New Zealand to get to take a more ambitious climate target to Paris?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Again they are the member’s numbers but I will accept them at face value. Again there comes a cost with doing all of those things and the Government has been involved in assisting with and having programmes that lead to marginal planting.James Shaw: In light of the evidence that there are plenty of practical pragmatic steps that New Zealand can take using existing technology and even without including agriculture will he now work with us to ensure that New Zealand can take a more ambitious climate target to Paris?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No because as I said yesterday it is quite legitimate for the Greens to have their own policies and to take those to the next general election. I think they should be honest actually with New Zealanders about the cost of those. The member says that here are all these things that you could do but he does not say what the actual costs to businesses and consumers would be and the answer is that the cost would actually be considerable. The member stands up and tells us to get more renewable energy and a lower emissions profile from agriculture and yet in the same breath I know he is deeply opposed to changes to the Resource Management Act that will allow us to convert Huntly from coal to combined-cycle gas. He cannot have it both ways.James Shaw: Is it not time for National to get up to speed on the numerous economic studies the latest being from the London School of Economics which shows that the majority of emissions reduction can be achieved in a way that has a net economic benefit to New Zealand?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I think the member does a disservice to the New Zealand Treasury. We have a lot of very bright people who work there alongside many other agencies that have looked at that matter. The member should look at the official advice that the Government received but the official advice from Treasury as I last recall it is that the cost of New Zealand carrying out a target of even a 30 percent reduction off the 2005 level comes with a greater cost than in comparable countries.