O'Connor SimonSIMON O'CONNOR (National—Tāmaki): Jolly good. The gross incompetence of the Government has just been illustrated by the person who's resumed her seat Ginny Andersen; thinks it's a joke has actually spent most of the time—the cameras don't focus—laughing. If we're talking about the national security of the Realm one would actually expect the people to talk about the national security of the Realm. In fact as I say the member who just resumed her seat just played politics ironically if not using the H word of course paradoxically.It is an incredibly serious issue that we are dealing with here. We are talking about terrorists who are New Zealanders who have gone overseas primarily into jihadist activities. I want to be clear that there are many forms of terrorism but the primary one at the moment is jihadism. There's a certain irony that the Green Party member who spoke was trying to think of others who have—well is it feminist Marxist or other views? To equate that with terrorism is offensive to those groups. It's also offensive because actually the people we are trying to deal with through this piece of legislation are jihadists who have killed the Christians in their tens of thousands who have thrown the LGBTI community off buildings and who have burnt alive Syrian soldiers. These are the people that we're trying to deal with—and the Greens are laughing because actually they don't particularly care. They don't particularly care. They are the people who have gone into mosques and they are the people who have gone into synagogues and killed people. These are the terrorists that we are talking about and I think it's unfortunate that we get stuck on one person in particular who is coming back because the importance of this law is to make sure that we are ready for the eventualities that come. I am disappointed that we on this side of the House have not been able to come to agreement with the Labour Party at this point and doubly disappointed that the Greens are supporting it because it's indicative of weakness. We heard it from the Greens' contribution that talked about civil liberties—again without understanding the protections that National's put forward. But probably the most concerning point is that the Green Party have over many years advocated for the removal of our intelligence and security services with the paradox of course being that they would be the first to complain if any of their particular rights or if they were to ever be harmed by these people. Look National's been very pragmatic in what it has asked to have changed. We want the law to apply to people under 18. The Greens stereotype that as children—again scaremongering and stupidity mixed together. We're not doing that to children but if the Green Party understood we have 14- 15- 16- and 17-year-old terrorists in other jurisdictions who have been arrested. This bill will not cover it. This bill has a fine for non-compliance. We're dealing with terrorists. They are zealots. You don't tend to slap a fine on them; you need to lock them up. There's also questions which are being raised—oh well I would certainly raise them—that the Green Party's amendments as I understand them are basically going to potentially compromise our own intelligence services by having to expose operations and information in order not to keep New Zealanders safe but to assuage the paranoia of the Greens who I will put on record have never understood a human right properly in their lives. It's coming to the Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Committee. I chair that. We are being put under enormous pressure I suspect to do our duty. I think that's unfortunate. I will say to the Minister that we will do our best but we are being put under enormous pressure to deal with this. The time frames—as have been indicated already in the House—are incredibly incredibly tight again on a matter of national security and I think even with the time being given to us it is going to be incredibly incredibly difficult. I for one do not wish to be the chair of a committee that denies people the right to speak. We're already seeing that with the likes of the Abortion Legislation Committee at the moment which has limited horrendously the ability of people to speak. I prefer to fall back to what I've done in the past in chairing committees which is to give New Zealanders their opportunity to speak particularly on matters of this import. So really I look forward to an extent for the committee to be able to make this bill the proper security and national security bill that it needs to be and I implore the Minister and the Government to take on these excellent suggestions of National.