Parker David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeParker David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 06 November 2013. Volume:694;Page:14391. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]1.Hon DAVID PARKER (Deputy Leader—Labour) to theMinister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that a publicly-owned insurer is a “dumb idea”?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Associate Minister of Finance) on behalf of theMinister of Finance: The Minister stands by all his statements that he has made about the idea of a taxpayer-owned insurer. In addition to calling it dumb he also said the idea was stupid and crazy. Furthermore he stands by another part of his statement in the House yesterday which was: “A billion-dollar impost on New Zealand taxpayers arises exactly from financial institutions taking too much risk and loading it on to the Government. That is why his proposition is stupid.” He particularly stands by this other part of his statement: “we want to avoid the taxpayer having to take the kinds of risks that have destroyed public finances in other developed countries. That is why the Government taking on even more insurance risk than it currently holds is crazy.”Hon David Parker: Is he calling Ross Armstrong the former president of the National Party dumb for supporting a publicly owned insurer like KiwiAssure?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Are you referring to the former Labour Party first mover Ross Armstrong? That is right. Look I have been here for 5 years now but I must admit that I have not actually met Ross. Possibly the Minister of Finance has but I suspect he is not actually getting the advice from Ross Armstrong at this point in time.Hon David Parker: Is he calling the 850000 customers of Kiwibank the vast majority of whom would like to have a New Zealand-owned insurer—is he calling those hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders dumb?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I cannot put words in the mouth of the Minister of Finance but on behalf of the Minister of Finance I say that what I think he is calling dumb is the idea that you would want to take on a whole lot more risk on behalf of taxpayers. Private sector insurers are paying out $20 billion as a result of the Christchurchearthquakes and the only question is how much of that $20 billion would Mr Parker like the taxpayers to take on.Hon David Parker: Was it a dumb idea for John Key to say that he was considering an investment by the Crown in Chorus on the same day Steven Joyce and the Minister of Finance were saying that investments like that would be a radical shift into a State-controlled economy reminiscent of the 1970s?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Generally when the Opposition fires out a gag that misfires because it is incorrect and the quote is wrong it does not come back for another smack the next day. The reality is the Prime Minister did not say that. He just did not rule out options and you are the ones—the Opposition—who are trying to put words in his mouth.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is he calling Adam Hamilton Sid Holland Keith Holyoake John Marshall and Robert Muldoon—the last four being former National Prime Ministers—dumb for supporting a State-owned insurer?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The difficulty for the member is that we are 40 years on from the last of those Prime Ministers. I appreciate that the member is not but the rest of the world is and in a modern open economy where New Zealand does well more State-controlled influence in the economy would only damage the New Zealand economy at a time when it is performing very well relative to the rest of the developed world and frankly performing better every month.Hon David Parker: Is he calling the editors of thePress theSouthland Times theDominion Post and many others who have written editorials supportive of Labour’s KiwiAssure dumb?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I must have read a different paper. I read theDominion Post and also theNew Zealand Herald which is the one that the member forgot to mention. I think theNew Zealand Heraldcomment and I am not quoting verbatim said something like “Let us hope this thing is forgotten as quickly as it has been thought up.” TheDominion Postsat there and said “Oh we don’t know about this—sounds risky.” or words to that effect. The reality of this half-formed half-baked proposal is that all it would do is create significant additional fiscal risk for New Zealand taxpayers at the very time when the world has worked out that that sort of fiscal risk can be highly damaging to economies to families and to any people in a country.Rt Hon John Key: Not only has he seen any reports on establishing potentially a new State-owned insurance company but also has the Minister of Finance seen any reports on what was the last political party to actually sell a State-owned insurance company?Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister of Finance will have no responsibility for that.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Point of order the Hon Gerry—[Interruption] Order! This is a point of order. It is entitled to be heard and will be heard in silence.Hon Gerry Brownlee: We had an interesting ruling yesterday that suggested that the Prime Minister could not be asked a question that related to advice from officials if that advice related to a privately owned company. I think that is a ruling that will need to be looked at in the future but what would appear to have happened here is that we have a question from the Opposition asking whether or not the Minister agrees with its proposition that it is a good idea to set up a State-owned insurer. He is now simply being asked the question in reverse which is whether there has been an incidence of a Government selling a State-owned insurer. That surely cannot be out of order.Mr SPEAKER: I appreciate the point the Minister is making. I had a look at theHansard yesterday. As the Deputy Speaker found yesterday the Speaker needs to quickly ascertain whether he thinks it is within the responsibility of the Minister towhom the question is asked. I have determined that it is not. I have ruled the question out of order and that is the end of the matter.Hon Gerry Brownlee: In reaching—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I certainly want to hear the supplementary question.Hon Gerry Brownlee: In reaching his conclusion that a State-owned insurer being established by any future Government would be a dumb idea did he consider any past actions by a Government relating to the sale of a State-owned insurer?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Yes of course you would do that and the Minister of Finance has. Of course there was a time in the past when we had a State-owned insurer and it was of course sold by a Government—Rt Hon John Key: Really?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Yes. In 1990 actually it was sold by a Government. In fact a Labour Government sold it at that time which makes it slightly weird that Labour is asking to create another one now but that is entirely consistent with its “yeah nah yeah” approach—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have heard enough of the answer.