Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:647;Page:16137] 
5.  
Dr the Hon LOCKWOOD SMITH (National—Rodney) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: When if at all did the then Minister of Immigration the Hon David Cunliffe brief the Prime Minister and Cabinet colleagues on the Oughton inquiry following his April and August 2007 briefings and what did he tell them? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 I am advised by the previous Minister of Immigration that he did not raise the matter with the Prime Minister or Cabinet because he was briefed in only very general terms by the chief executives at the relevant times and was advised that the reports pertained to individual employment matters which are the responsibility of the chief executive. As I have told the member on a number of occasions neither the previous nor the current Minister received a copy of the Oughton report or the covering letter until they became publicly available; nor were we briefed on issues outside of the residency approval issues involving Mary Anne Thompson’s family members. The member may like to keep repeating it and repeating it but the fact that he repeats it does not make it an accurate statement of the facts. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: Does the Minister stand by the statement made on his behalf yesterday that the then Minister of Immigration was not briefed on the residency issues within the Oughton report given that the opening sentence of the Oughton report states: “I can confirm that the residency permits granted to the particular family from Kiribati did not qualify in terms of then current policies.”? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I stand by my previous answer and yesterday’s. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: Does the Minister stand by the statement made on his behalf yesterday that the then Minister of Immigration David Cunliffe was not briefed on the residency issues relating to the Oughton report during his April and August briefings given that the first of the four objectives in the terms of reference for the Oughton inquiry was to “Determine whether the residence decision was made within or outside … Government Residence Policy …”; if so does he expect Parliament to believe that James Buwalda and Graham Fortune would both ignore the first term of reference covering residency policy issues when they briefed the then Minister David Cunliffe? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I stand by my statements and I reiterate to the member that the Minister was briefed in general terms by those chief executives on an employment matter. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: Does the Minister expect Parliament to believe that a highly respected senior public servant of over 30 years’ experience Graham Fortune who is a former Secretary of Defence would receive an inquiry report into illegal decision-making within his department that found clear evidence of Government policy outcomes being deliberately circumvented and not brief his Minister David Cunliffe on the inquiry’s recommendations one of which required ministerial action? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I stand by my previous answer. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: Was that Minister aware of serious misconduct and corruption issues within his department prior to his 14 December 2007 briefing on the Oughton inquiry? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: As I have told the member I was briefed on 14 December in respect of Mary Anne Thompson and the issues surrounding that employment matter. As I have told the member I was advised that the chief executive had contacted the State Services Commission and taken further legal advice that he could not proceed. When the Oughton report was made public along with the letter—neither of which I had seen until they were made public—other matters were then brought into the public arena. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can I ask the Minister on the issue of inquiries within the Immigration Service whether the formula is intended to be followed that was followed back in 1996 in the investigation by the department into Bangladeshi immigration which after the evidence was adduced was covered up and hushed up with defamation fees being paid out because of allegations that National had made? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: That is a matter from before my time as Minister of Immigration but I can say to the member that the Auditor-General on my recommendation and on the recommendation of the Prime Minister has been called in. The Auditor-General has absolute unfettered rights to pursue matters in his own time frame and to pursue matters anywhere he sees fit; he is completely independent of Ministers he reports to Parliament and he may question Ministers and others. That process—along with the review of the Pacific branch by the chief executive of the department along with the investigation by the State Services Commission and along with the police inquiry—is I believe the way to proceed. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: How can the Minister claim that he was unaware of the extent of the problem prior to that December briefing and therefore could not brief the Prime Minister and Cabinet on the issues when he and his predecessor David Cunliffe together signed off over 40 written parliamentary questions last year that clearly listed the number of substantiated cases of misconduct fraud bribery theft corruption and other serious offences within the Immigration Service? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I became the Minister of Immigration in I think the Cabinet reshuffle in October. I think that where the member is going pertains to the press statement that he put out today. He is referring I suspect to the Buddle Findlay report of 2007. I suspect that his next question will be the same one that he poses in the press statement which is about our awareness of that. I am advised that that report was placed on the departmental website well before I became Minister. Indeed it pertained to allegations levelled by one Hon Tuariki Delamere and I am advised that that report which was publicly available for a long time before I became the Minister has no connection with other allegations that became public when the Oughton report became public and that those allegations made by Mr Delamere were proved to be incorrect. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Could I ask the Minister again as to why he is not prepared to follow the Bangladeshi immigration investigation formula which found that the then Government had brought into this country hundreds and hundreds of people claiming to have degrees from Dhaka University even though those degrees had been printed using technology that at the time of their supposed graduation was not available anywhere in the world and those people were then able to exit to Australia to avoid justice in this country particularly because National had shut the inquiry down and done nothing about it and National members who were then in Government but are now sitting in the Opposition front row called anyone who said anything about the department at that point in time “racist”? 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I am reluctant to comment on matters that pre-date my time as Minister of Immigration but I reiterate that when I was first briefed on the matters on 14 December my chief executive briefed me that he had already engaged the State Services Commission. Subsequently he briefed me that he had gone to the length of seeking legal advice as to whether he could reopen matters if he was of a mind to. He was on to the matter. I suspect that my chief executive having been in his post for just 2 weeks I think in advance of my being in mine was wading through an abundance of information and was making what judgments he could as he came to grips with that information. Subsequent to that he engaged a review of and inquiry into the Pacific branch; subsequent to that I engaged the State Services Commission; and subsequent to that the Audit Office has been engaged. I think that stands in stark contrast with the history of a different time that the member is alluding to. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I seek leave to table the terms of reference for the Review of Apparently Unlawful Immigration Decision—commonly known as the Oughton inquiry. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I seek leave to table the 27 answers to written questions on fraud and corruption within Immigration New Zealand that were signed off by the previous Minister of Immigration David Cunliffe. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith 
: I seek leave to table the 16 answers to written questions on fraud and corruption within Immigration New Zealand that were signed off by the current Minister of Immigration Clayton Cosgrove. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection.