Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Sitting date: 13 March 2013. Volume:688;Page:8514. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill 
Second Reading 
Debate resumed from 20 February. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I support this bill. 
BARBARA STEWART (NZ First) 
: 
 First I rise to congratulate Dr David Clark on getting his bill the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill to this stage. It does not happen often. On behalf of New Zealand First I rise to support the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. This bill is about recognising days that are unique to us as New Zealanders. We recognise other public holidays and Mondayise them so really we should be doing this for days that are important and unique to us. 
Many of the reasons that members ought to support this bill have been outlined in the previous weeks by many speakers. This bill is a good deal for workers and businesses alike. The reality is that people no longer work a 9 till 5 day or a Monday to Friday job. It has been that way for quite some time so it is reassuring to us to see that proposed legislation that reflects this reality is being progressed through the House. The majority of businesses according to the Mind Your Own Business survey indicate that they are either unfazed by or quite receptive to the intent of this bill. The bottom line is that long weekends usually bring about far more domestic tourists than there are on other days. We know that urban dwellers will often head on short journeys into provincial New Zealand and of course inject some much-needed funds into those struggling communities. Likewise rural dwellers will often head into the cities or go to some tourist spot that they previously have not visited. We must applaud that and in this way the bill is very good for businesses and particularly for those in the tourism sector. I know that I have actually been down to the Chateau at odd times on a long weekend and it is not often that I go down into the snow. 
In New Zealand First we firmly believe that public holidays are very important to us as New Zealanders and as a country. They help define who we are where we are from and all of the traditions that we value collectively. They are very important dates on which we commemorate the numerous aspects that bind us all together and make us New Zealanders. Our public holidays are times to be sociable. They are times to spend with family and friends and quite often we have not got that sort of time. Whether we are hearing about old war stories and looking at old war medals of elderly relatives or we are learning of the iwi and the dignitaries at the signing of the Treaty Anzac Day and Waitangi Day are now times of reflection. 
Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. 
BARBARA STEWART 
: As I was saying prior to the dinner break New Zealand First supports the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. It seeks to Mondayise both Waitangi Day and Anzac Day which basically means that if Waitangi Day or Anzac Day fall on a Saturday or Sunday the holiday is actually held on the Monday. We know that twice in every 7 years Kiwis do not get 11 statutory holidays but 9 due to the way that both Waitangi Day and Anzac Day fall at the weekend. The report from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee as I was saying prior to the dinner break found that small to medium sized businesses actually support or are neutral to the planned Mondayisation. We are aware that businesses in the tourism sector are actually embracing this proposal because they know that many people will be travelling to other destinations when there is a holiday on the Monday. So they are definitely in support of Mondayisation. That is a great flow-on effect for those small communities often in rural New Zealand that are focused on tourism. 
As it currently stands New Zealand First believes that Waitangi Day and Anzac Day are given a second-class status among our list of public holidays particularly when they fall on the Saturday or the Sunday. This inconsistency across public holidays can be problematic and it is quite confusing for families employers and employees alike. We need to ensure that all public holidays are treated in the same way. They need to be consistent. We want our special days to be the same as Christmas Day Boxing Day and New Year’s Day. It is important. 
This member’s bill is a very very good one and we are pleased to see it come to the House. It is timely that this issue is actually addressed. It is not something that will put undue financial pressure on the Government or taxpayers. I was quite interested to read that the Government officials actually admit that their cost statistics are likely to be overestimated. Fancy overestimating the cost to businesses—quite interesting! But this small change—quite a large one in actual fact I believe Mr Clark—will inevitably benefit families communities and many businesses. It is for this reason that New Zealand First is very pleased to support this bill. 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National) 
: 
 I rise to speak in opposition to this Holidays— 
Hon Members 
: Oh! 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: —but wait there is more; there is more—(Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. I do so because I believe that this bill has received a fair hearing from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and I would like to say that it has been particularly well articulated by Dr David Clark who has articulated his argument singularly well. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Who? 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: Dr David Clark. In spite of that though—he gave it his very best shot and I will be the last to criticise a member for giving his best to his own bill that was drawn out of the ballot. He has done it extraordinarily well but in spite of that—in spite of his prowess—I still find he has not argued a reason to support the bill nor does the select committee support the bill. 
It is a pleasure always to follow Barbara Stewart as a speaker. She speaks fulsomely and fervently. But having just experienced my own attempt to accompany a bill through the House and having been unnecessarily savaged by Denis O’Rourke from New Zealand First I am going to be only nice to Dr David Clark. 
But the bill in fact will have very little substantive effect on days that matter a great deal—and these days really do matter a great deal to New Zealanders. The substantive effect other than in quite rare situations really does nothing to address the real issues facing employees and employers but it is a good sort of wallpaper job. National is focused on ensuring our employment relations framework is fair and flexible. We need to provide businesses with the confidence to take on staff while ensuring the rights of employees are well protected. This bill although very nice sounding—very nice sounding—does not address an actual substantive issue in the economy or the employment market. I kept looking for those bits in it—I kept looking for those bits in it—but no they were not there. 
Dr David Clark 
: Productive rested workers. 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: Well yes but—you know. Anzac Day and Waitangi Day have special significance for every New Zealander. For most New Zealanders Anzac Day is an occasion to formally pay tribute to remember all New Zealanders killed in war and also to honour returned servicemen and servicewomen. It is a day of commemoration and memories and a time to give honour to those who gave so much. I really treasure the Anzac Day commemorations that as an MP one is fortunate enough to get invited to. They are really wonderful occasions. What is great is that the new generation is coming in ever greater numbers—ever greater numbers. That is wonderful to see. It is a tribute to the modern generation but also of course it is a tribute to the historical role played by our soldiers in New Zealand. 
So too is Waitangi Day an occasion to remember our nation’s history including its formation its great advances and the things we have done together in a bicultural sense and now in a multicultural sense as a nation. It is a time of fresh considerations. I have seen it in so many moods. I used to live in the far north in Hokianga and going across to Waitangi— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Didn’t quite fit in there either. 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: —was always a pleasure. Say it again. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Didn’t quite fit in there either. 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: Ha ha! Oh I do not know about that. I really gloried in my Hokianga days. But we would go across to Waitangi and we had seen so many different styles. They used to have picnic days and they were always good fun. Then there was Norm Kirk’s pageant. That was a remarkable event for those of us who are old enough to remember it. Then we entered the difficult times of dissent and sometimes despair. It is an ever-changing socio-political day. 
This bill with all due respect to Dr Clark will not increase the importance of these days at all nor does this bill seem to understand why public holidays exist. It will create an extra day or two where businesses are forced to close or work under reduced hours. But it will not do anything to grow the weight of history that makes these days worthy of being so important that they require people to stop their routines to reflect which is after all the reason we have public holidays so that we can remember pay tribute and teach the next generation why we as a nation are where we are and what was sacrificed to get us here. 
This bill also will not culminate in a dramatic increase in days off for workers even though it might be painted that colour. That is not going to be the effect. The next time both holidays fall on a weekend is 2021. Waitangi Day alone falls on a weekend in 2016. Anzac Day falls on a weekend in 2015. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Why aren’t New Zealand First calling for a referendum? 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: Well it might be calling for a referendum Mr Henare. It may well call for a referendum. A referendum is something you call for when you cannot make up your own mind. That is what I was always taught. That is maybe the style that New Zealand First likes to work to. 
 But this bill will not culminate in a dramatic increase in days off for workers. Despite David Clark saying that this will mean that all workers now get 11 paid holidays David that is not quite true. If you actually do not work on a Monday anyway—let us say on a shift basis—well you will not get Queen’s Birthday or Labour Day on the next working day. So— 
Dr David Clark 
: You can negotiate it in your employment agreement. 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: No I think that little one slipped past you. It is for these straightforward reasons that the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee chaired responsibly and reasonably by my colleague David Bennett— 
Scott Simpson 
: Hear hear! 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE 
: Yes he is worthy of a “Hear hear!”. He chairs the meetings well. We really did Dr Clark treat your bill seriously. You gave a very articulate presentation and we responded to it responsibly. We took it seriously but we did recommend that it not be passed. To do so would achieve so little—so little. 
However if the House decides that the bill should proceed then the committee recommends that it adopt the following amendments just to help it a little bit. We would like to amend clause 2 or suggest that clause 2 should be amended to specify 1 January 2014 as the commencement date. Public access to legislation is improved by the inclusion of a specific commencement date. The first day that would be affected by this legislation is Anzac Day in 2015. This recommended commencement date would allow a full year for the public to prepare for the legislation—for example revising contracts and other legal instruments that include “working day” or “business days”. These are important aspects of suddenly introducing—well you cannot suddenly introduce things; you have to allow the public to prepare. We would amend clause 5 which inserts a new section 45A—section 44B in the bill as introduced—by amending new subsection 45A(2) to make it clear that an employee would not be entitled to more than one public holiday for Waitangi Day or Anzac Day. There are a few other new clauses we would introduce. Consequential amendments to various court rules would also be required. By convention these are made by Order in Council after consultation with the Rules Committee. 
Although these amendments do not resolve the overarching issues of the bill—it being wholly unnecessary accomplishing very little and arguably not improving the economy or the job market—they would make the bill more workable. We are elected to legislate. This is how the Opposition has chosen to put forward this bill and it is free to do so. We encourage the Opposition and we endorse the efforts that Dr Clark has made. The National Government in this case chooses differently. Thank you. 
SIMON O’CONNOR (National—Tamaki) 
: 
 I rise to speak against this bill the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill but in doing so I do acknowledge the work that Dr David Clark has done. At the heart of it is that my concern is that this bill uses Anzac Day and Waitangi Day as an excuse for a holiday. If we want to talk about more holidays then let us talk about that but this is talking about using Anzac Day and Waitangi Day as an excuse for a holiday. 
I would not dare to put words into the mouths of men who fought and died in Gallipoli. I am going to use my speech to allow them to speak for themselves. I have been looking over the diary of George Bollinger. He was born in Taranaki in 1890. At the age of 24 he headed off to war. He did not return but he left us his diaries and in them his experiences and his thoughts live on. He arrived at Gallipoli the day after 25 April 1915 which incidentally was a Sunday. He described the Monday following—the very first Anzac Day—as follows: “Monday 26th April 3.15 am. ‘Packs on’ was roared out. Torpedo destroyers are alongside to take us ashore. 9.40 am. On shore in the thick of it. The first casualty in our company was in my section. Just before dawn we were on the destroyers waiting for surf boats to take us ashore. Stray bullets were landing around us and suddenly Private Tohill who was standing just in front of me dropped with a bullet through his shoulder. Immediately after Private Swayne was shot in the forehead. It was a relief to get ashore. The Australians were frightfully cut about effecting a landing yesterday. They say there are at least 6000 casualties. They did heroic work and the whole world will know of it. We are in a gully immediately behind the firing line and will be called in to relieve at any moment. Two New Zealand battalions were in last night and got cut about. The Turks have overwhelming numbers and it is a perfect wonder how the Australians captured these heights.” 
He goes on: “In landing as many as 49 were killed in one boat and a whole regiment was practically wiped out. The din and roar and whistle of the missiles is awful. As we sit here the ambulance are passing with wounded on the stretchers. 5.00 pm. We climbed heights to take our place in reserve to firing line. We are right in the fire zone and saw some awful sights.” 
That was how the first Monday after the first Anzac Day was spent by the people we commemorate each year at dawn. The days that followed were no less harrowing. The lieutenant goes on: “Tuesday 27th April At daylight this morning a terrific artillery duel raged. The Turks put hundreds of shells onto our landing place. At 10.00 am we were marched north along the beach and as we got under heights we met crowds of wounded coming down. Oh how callous one gets. Word rushed down from above for Hawke’s Bay and Wellington-West Coast Companies to reinforce at the double as our fellows were getting massacred. We threw off packs and forgot everything in that climb up the cliffs. We fixed bayonets on reaching top and got into it. The country is terribly hilly and covered with scrub from four to five feet high. On we rushed against a rain of bullets and our men began to drop over before they fired a shot. We started to get mixed and were everywhere amongst the Australians. Our men were dropping in hundreds.” 
Darien Fenton 
: Tell us about your Government’s own legislation that allows the day to be transferred— 
SIMON O’CONNOR 
: This might be inconvenient to some in the House but these are the words of the men from the first Anzac Day. 
Darien Fenton 
: What about your Government? What about the Holidays Act 2010? 
SIMON O’CONNOR 
: It is a terrible inconvenient truth that those members want to shout down. I find that a terrible thing. 
The lieutenant carries on—and the House would do well to listen—“Wednesday 28th April We were relieved about 8 o’clock. Mostly our nerves were gone. We retired back and tried to rest: our casualties were very heavy. We manned the trenches again at 6 o’clock.” 
Denis O’Rourke 
: What’s the point of all this? Which bill are you talking to? 
Le’aufa’amulia 
 Asenati Lole-Taylor 
: Which bill is being described to us? 
SIMON O’CONNOR 
: I am going to pause there for just a moment. Again I know that it seems a terrible inconvenience to the House that they must listen to the history and the purpose of what we talk about around Anzac Day. It is very easy to try to turn this into a discussion of holidays and days off and how we might have a barbecue and so forth and yet you take a war diary of a man younger than just about everyone sitting in this House and you utter his words in this House and it is so inconvenient that the contempt of heckling begins. 
The diary continues: “Wednesday 28th April We were relieved about 8 o’clock. Mostly our nerves were gone. We retired back and tried to rest: our casualties were very heavy. We manned the trenches again at 6 o’clock. No sleep and nothing to eat just a craving for drink and the wounded always empty our bottles. The Turkish trenches are now on a ridge about 200 yards away. Our warships are shelling them but unfortunately have also accounted for a number of our casualties.” Second Lieutenant Bollinger survived Gallipoli and he went on to fight on other battlefields. He was wounded at Messines on 8 June 1917 and he died of his wounds 2 days later. Lieutenant Bollinger was just 27. 
I have read this because if one wishes to increase the number of paid holidays in New Zealand then let us have a conversation about that but let us not dishonour the horrors that befell so many people on 25 April 1915 by turning it into nothing more than a long weekend. Anzac Day is not a holiday and it should not be used as an excuse for a holiday. May they rest in peace. 
Brendan Horan 
: Mr Assistant Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Is the member calling? I could not hear him. 
Brendan Horan 
: I am sorry Mr Assistant Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I call the honourable member Brendan Horan. 
BRENDAN HORAN (Independent) 
: 
 It appears my microphone was not turned on but it is now. How lovely it is to hear National speakers— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I am sorry Mr Horan. My apologies. I just wish to advise the House that this is a split call. The member will have 5 minutes and he will get the bell with 1 minute to go. 
BRENDAN HORAN 
: I will comment on the honourable member Chris Auchinvole’s words which were spoken with a tonality sweeter than honey but were words more bitter than a poorly corked wine. Fancy giving holidays on one hand and trying to take them away from workers on the other. 
I would like to acknowledge the honourable member David Clark. It is thanks to that honourable member that I am able to have this call on the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. We have a situation in this Parliament where MPs in four parties are allocated speaking rights but seven other MPs are not and we seven MPs have to rely on calls being negotiable between parties. That is a matter that I will take up on another day through the proper channels. The honourable member David Clark did not take my support for granted after I became an independent MP. He took the time to follow up when the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee reported and to meet with me and that is what you would expect from a hard-working diligent MP in charge of a bill. 
My initial thought was rather like that of the National members—rather mean-spirited at first—and I thought: “No I am not going to support this.” Before I entered Parliament I part-owned and operated three retail outlets and I hired 15 employees and I was doing the mental sums in my head of the wages that I would have to meet. But then I investigated more fully and upon reflection saw that in the next 6 years public holidays would be Mondayised just twice—Anzac Day in 2015 and Waitangi Day in February 2016. 
We have had a golden summer in Tauranga and Mount Maunganui and yes it has not been good for farmers but with a late monsoon season in the upper reaches of the Pacific I am confident that we will have some rain soon. But with the golden weather that Tauranga and Mount Maunganui have experienced our area has benefited with record numbers of visitors and for areas of great tourist potential such as Mount Maunganui the prospect of an extra-long weekend reaps huge financial rewards for many businesses. In the case of Tauranga recovering from the disastrous effects of the  
Rena 
 and facing the ongoing financial shortfalls to the region caused by Psa—yes another National Government biosecurity blunder—then that opportunity of extra commerce because of the long weekend will benefit so many in the area including hoteliers restaurateurs tourist guides and tourist operators. Additional to this is that Anzac Day 2015 will be the 100th anniversary of the fateful landings at Gallipoli and it is fitting and proper that the sacrifice of our Anzacs will be remembered in a way that includes a full public holiday so that we can fully respect and celebrate the sacrifice that our ancestors made. 
Ensuring that in every year these two important commemorations are marked with a full public holiday for all people is a good step for this House to take. People who do not normally work on the days on which Waitangi Day and Anzac Day fall will get the holiday on the Monday and those who work on the Saturday or Sunday will get that day as a public holiday. Most important the commemorations at Waitangi and at dawn parades all around our beautiful country will still be observed on 6 February and 25 April. It is with great pleasure that I support this bill. 
DAVID CLENDON (Green) 
: 
 I am pleased to speak in support of this bill the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. It is socially responsible it will aid our very hard-working tourism sector and the Greens are very happy to support it. Kia ora. 
JAMI-LEE ROSS (National—Botany) 
: 
 I rise to speak as my colleagues have in opposition to this bill the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill for a number of reasons. But before I go over those reasons can I just assure those in the gallery and those watching at home that I know there is an important debate you are waiting for and I can assure you that the timing is such that we will get through that full debate after I have finished. 
The National Party is taking full calls on this piece of legislation because we are opposed to this piece of legislation for some serious reasons. They are serious reasons. I think when New Zealanders out there really think about Anzac Day and when they really think about Waitangi Day and what those days mean to them they will come to the conclusion—and I do not think it is a controversial conclusion—that actually they are not holidays; they are days of commemoration. To treat them solely as holidays I believe denigrates those days. I believe it takes away from the specialness and from the importance of those days. 
When Parliament has previously considered how it should legislate for Anzac Day and for Waitangi Day it has specifically decided in previous years that it will do so in such a way that will not lead to those days being Mondayised because Parliament knew at the time that those days were very important to New Zealanders. To simply Mondayise them to simply treat them as just another holiday is in poor form and it is something that this side of the House does not support. 
I would say that the RSA which is a very important body when we come to consider Anzac Day is a body from which we should take the lead on Anzac Day. It has quite strong views on Anzac Day. It did not make a submission to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee I am aware of that but it has put out statements on the bill and I think it is important that we do read those out for the record. The RSA represents those people who have served this country it represents those people who have put their lives on the line for this country and it represents the people who went to war so that we could sit in this House and debate these very issues. 
What does the RSA say about Mondayising Anzac Day? It says: “Where the commemoration falls on a weekend the RSA does not support the granting of a Monday public holiday in lieu of Anzac Day … The RSA is concerned that putting a three day holiday weekend in place could take the focus away from its primary Anzac Day purpose to the disadvantage of the commemoration itself.” That is from the national president of the RSA on 1 March. If we go ahead and Mondayise Anzac Day then in the eyes of the RSA we are disadvantaging the commemoration itself. 
Dr David Clark 
: Not all RSA members. 
JAMI-LEE ROSS 
: Mr Clark disagrees but I am reading out a statement here from the national president. I mean if the national president is wrong Mr Clark take it up with him but that is the position of the RSA. 
Later in the year he put out another statement specifically on the bill that Mr Clark put forward. He said: “we are seriously concerned that to allow a holiday long weekend when Anzac Day falls within a weekend will take the focus away from our most solemn day of commemoration in memory of the sacrifice of New Zealanders for their nation and instead turn attention towards the holiday itself.” I say that that is what the Labour Party that is what the Opposition is doing with this Mondayisation bill. It is not treating the day as the commemoration it should be treated as and we say that that is appalling. 
I want to turn now to the costs to business and the costs to the New Zealand economy because we have to recognise that there are costs to the New Zealand economy. 
Grant Robertson 
: What about the benefits to business? 
JAMI-LEE ROSS 
: Well there are costs to the New Zealand economy. The Labour Party members want to interject. They disagree and they do not accept that there are costs to businesses but we have to recognise that whenever we make decisions in this Parliament that affect businesses and affect the economy it has a cost for everyday New Zealanders. Let us remember that it is not the Government that creates jobs it is actually the people out there who are putting their money on the line as an investment to keep businesses operating. By Mondayising these days we are actually leading towards a cost for those organisations. 
The select committee did hear some submissions from business representatives organisations: Business New Zealand the Employers and Manufacturers Association— 
Dr David Clark 
: Tourism association—what did Martin Snedden say? 
JAMI-LEE ROSS 
: Yes yes the tourism industry. It likes it because it will benefit from it but actually it is able to pass many of its costs on to its customers. 
Let us take the Meat Industry Association. I think that is pretty specific and along the lines of what David Clark was talking about. It made a pretty good point about tourism. It stated: “It is noted that the tourism industry supports the Bill. The tourism industry stands to benefit financially from the bill and in large part possesses the means by which to pass on the additional costs associated with the Bill’s operation. … The meat industry like other export industries is not so well-positioned.” And here is the important bit that Labour and the Greens should really think about: “Being price takers in the international marketplace there is very little opportunity to recoup the increased costs of production …”. 
At the moment the Labour Party and the Green Party have this big inquiry which they have set up on their own about manufacturing about the cost of exporting for New Zealanders. We have got a very big representative organisation here mainly exporters that is saying that the costs that the Labour Party is putting on to New Zealanders—the cost that the Labour Party and the Green Party through this legislation will put on to New Zealanders—will be to their detriment. 
I want to turn to what the Employers and Manufacturers Association had to say because that association is an important representative body too. What it had to say was that this bill sends absolutely the wrong message. It sends a mixed message in fact. We have spent a lot of time in this Parliament talking about how we can create jobs. We have spent a lot of time in this Parliament talking about how we can reduce unemployment. [ 
Interruption 
] They do not want to hear it— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Order! Even I am having difficulty listening to the member. [ 
Interruption 
] I would like to remind the members on my left of Speakers’ ruling 60/5—“Interjections … are out of order unless they are rare … reasonable;” and witty in the words of the late former Deputy Speaker Geoffrey Braybrooke. So I ask members to remember that. 
JAMI-LEE ROSS 
: Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. I actually do not mind but I have to agree with the Speaker—they were not actually that witty. If they are going to try— 
Brendan Horan 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Sorry my microphone does not appear to be working. I can hear him very clearly from back here so I am happy to swap positions— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Order! That is a frivolous point of order and the member is trifling with the Chair. The member has been warned. 
JAMI-LEE ROSS 
: Thank you very much to Mr Horan for that great impact on Parliament. It was appreciated. 
Let us go back to the Employers and Manufacturers Association and what it is saying about things because it said: “On the one hand we hear pleas from Parliament about creating jobs costs of living issues and a general empathy with the difficult times everyone is experiencing. On the other hand proposals are being made that not only do nothing to assist those issues but [actually] exacerbate them.” So the employers out there are telling us that by putting an additional cost on to businesses that is going to exacerbate some of the issues we are talking about. 
We know that the Labour Party has a very different view from us about creating jobs. Every time we have put forward proposals to create jobs it has opposed them. Every time it has put forward proposals such as this which would be a cost to business that could potentially lead to jobs being lost we have opposed them. Some of the other comments being made by industry organisations are along the lines of: “Potentially we will see more businesses shutting their doors for these particular days.” More businesses shutting their doors for these particular days means actually less employment on those particular days. 
The costs themselves are not insignificant. The Labour Party likes to think that this will actually cost nothing but the costs are not insignificant. The cost that we have had reported to us—and yes there is a bit of dispute about it—is that it would cost the New Zealand economy roughly $200 million for every day that is Mondayised. Those members shake their heads but they have never actually come up with an alternative number. They have never come up with an alternative number. 
We know that these days are important to New Zealanders. We know that these days should not be treated just as holidays. These days are important days of commemoration. Anzac Day is about the people who fought for this country. Anzac Day is about the people such as the RSAs and what they think about that and how that is an important day for them. This is also about Waitangi Day and about remembering New Zealand’s history about commemorating the day that New Zealand became the country that it is. This is not about taking those days away from New Zealanders by just treating them as holidays and Mondayising them costing businesses a lot of money and sending mixed messages to the business community and to New Zealanders about what this Parliament thinks is important. We oppose this bill for those very reasons and I would urge the Opposition to really reconsider what it is doing here. How much of a benefit will this be and what is the impact on New Zealanders? What is the impact on these very important days for New Zealanders? We disagree with what it is doing. It should be opposed. 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill be now read a second time. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 7; Maori Party 3; Mana 1; United Future 1; Independent: Horan. 
Noes 60 
New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1. 
Bill read a second time.