Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:631;Page:3256] 
5.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations 
: What stage have Crown negotiations over Tainui claims to the Waikato River reached? 
Hon MARK BURTON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) 
: 
 Since signing terms of negotiation in December 2005 the Crown and Waikato Tainui have been engaged in formal negotiations towards the next milestone in the negotiations process—an agreement in principle. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Has the Crown discussed transferring or formalising ownership or title to the Waikato River in favour of Tainui in negotiations so far? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: As I have said to the member previously after similar questions it has always been the practice of Ministers in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations not to discuss the content of a current negotiation prior to the release of an agreement in principle which then allows for the wide community discussion of any such issues. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Will the Minister release the framework for these discussions and explain why Tainui have been told they cannot talk to us and whether that is their decision or the Minister’s? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I have no power to direct Tainui negotiators as to how and to whom they talk. For instance in response to a question from Radio New Zealand one of the co-negotiators for Tainui expressed an absolute guarantee that the rights and access of all New Zealand citizens would be protected in the negotiation. It is a degree of detail I simply could not give in terms of the undertakings I have given. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Do we take it from that that the Government is prepared to give away some of the rights of access and usage New Zealanders currently enjoy on the Waikato River in settlement of this matter? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I quote from Tukoroirangi Morgan on Radio New Zealand this morning: “Public access private and third party rights are”—[ 
Interruption 
]; if the member wants to listen to the answer I will answer his question—“completely and fully protected. It’s always our view to ensure that the rights of individuals”— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It would save an awful lot of time if the Minister addressed the question by giving us his opinion his view and the Government’s position rather than quoting Tukoroirangi Morgan. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister had actually addressed that part in answer to a previous question but if he wishes to reiterate that and then go on that would be helpful I think to the member. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The Crown in all previous negotiations has always absolutely protected public access. Tuku Morgan as a co-negotiator for Tainui while talking this morning explicitly about its claim gave an absolute guarantee they sought no such breach of public access. I think the answer without my breaching my obligations of confidentiality are clear. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If there is no problem with future access and usage of the river by New Zealanders why is there so much secrecy around these negotiations and why can he not release the framework under which the negotiations are being conducted? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: As the member knows all such negotiations covering a wide range of detail are held confidentially always. [ 
Interruption 
] I refer the member to his former colleague Sir Douglas Graham. He could perhaps seek tutorial from other previous Ministers for treaty negotiations. The more than 20 negotiations are all being conducted according to the same protocols and traditions. At the point of an agreement in principle all the information will be widely available for any interested party to comment. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Have negotiations so far included the probability of Tainui being in a position to veto resource consents for water and river usage and other activities in the catchment of the Waikato River? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I say to the member again that I will not comment on the content of the negotiations. However— 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Give us the framework. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: —I say to Dr Mapp I could refer the member to the comments of Tukoroirangi Morgan who said: “the rights of individuals whether Maori or non-Maori are never compromised in any shape or form and we have always made it absolutely clear to the Crown that we have no intention of infringing compromising or obstructing any access to the Waikato River. It is a taonga a treasure for all New Zealanders to enjoy.” That was said on Radio New Zealand this morning. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I would ask you to consider the answers the Minister has given the House today. It seems somewhat ridiculous that he can stand in the House and say: “I can’t tell Parliament what’s going on but by the way just go to a radio bulletin and take Tukoroirangi Morgan’s word for it.” That seems to me to be a totally unacceptable situation for the House to be in. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: Speaking to the point of order I point out that as I have indicated to the member on a number of occasions I can say what I can say in keeping with my obligations as a negotiator. I was trying to be helpful to the member by drawing his attention to publicly available information that is directly relevant to and appropriate to his concerns. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I listened carefully to the Minister and he did address the question. He may not have done so to the satisfaction of the member but he certainly addressed the question.