Menéndez March RicardoANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour): Thank you Mr Chair. It's a real pleasure to get another call on this matter. We still haven't heard from the member whose name this bill is in as to why he believes that this is an appropriate Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) and is supporting it. I'd be interested to hear. And I'd also be interested to hear if he could name the organisations who spend many many many years training and supporting these dogs.I wanted to just ask the member Penny Simmonds if she has looked at Assistance Dogs International which is the international movement around dogs and making sure that they are appropriately trained. They have a mission and a vision and values and one of the values that they talk about is the dog health and welfare the ongoing dog health and welfare. What we know about our organisations who train these amazing companions these amazing dogs that do this work is that they have I guess what we would call an after-care service a service that supports these dogs when they retire. So what thought has gone into on the welfare of these animals?I'd also like to pick up on my colleague's questions in regards to the Department of Internal Affairs (DIA) the guidelines for authorisation to certify disability assist dogs. It is as my colleague Angela Roberts said a very comprehensive list and I want to know from the member whose name this bill is in whether in fact he has looked at this and whether it is compatible with the wording of the SOP which enables I guess for me a sense of contracting out and where we have a very specific set of skills and work and training and hundreds and hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars invested in these animals to be appropriate for and the matching to their person. I want to know whether in fact this has been thought out.I guess my final comment around this is that this is an interesting topic; don't get us wrong. We do not take it lightly to be voting down this SOP and not supporting it. We certainly think that this is a matter of interest. Nevertheless it was too late to bring it to this committee. We should have had the opportunity to engage and invite the community who this affects to discuss this matter with us. What we know about the disability community is they are silenced enough and therefore we would say Nothing about us without us." right? So we would have liked to have invited the opportunity for those to submit on this matter even though it is out of scope—even though it is out of scope. It would have been worthwhile having that discussion. So I'm really disappointed that that wasn't brought to us and I would like the member whose name this bill is in to address that and to perhaps consider my views around the DIA and what his views are around the very stringent and important training that is required for these animals and the regulation to ensure that they are absolutely appropriate. Thank you.RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green): Thank you Mr Chair. I want to commend the efforts of the Labour members for using almost their full slots to make their contributions specifically to ask me to list the organisations that train dogs that I think they can google if they really want to know. I appreciate they want me to know and to name them. But for those people viewing I can give them a list which is Assistance Dogs New Zealand Hearing Dogs for Deaf People New Zealand K9 Medical Detection New Zealand K9 Search Medical Detection Mobility Assistance Dogs Trust New Zealand Epilepsy Assist Dog Trust Perfect Partners Assistance Dogs Trust Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind Inc. Happy to send a paper list to the members if they genuinely would like to understand the comprehensive list.Speaking to the Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 145 I would really like to hear members from National also explain their rationale for bringing this forward. But I do want to note and address some of the concerns that have been raised regarding the issue of disciplining the sphere of—it was brought by I believe one submitter around the consequence of having more dogs in the public space. And while I totally understand the need for these dogs to have adequate training and that there are procedures in place my understanding with the SOP is that this is why the language is very clear that it's not just any private trainer; it's a private trainer that has been recognised by one of the organisations listed in Schedule 5 of the Dog Control Act. While I totally take the points from Labour members around berating the late stages in which this SOP was being brought forward—I empathise with those statements regarding my wishes of having had a much more consultative process with the community—I also want to acknowledge that in the submission process the feedback from disabled people was very much one of urging us to ensure that they're able to participate in their communities. While organisations play a massive role in enabling these dogs to do their work and therefore also ensuring that disabled people can participate I also think that we should be taking the feedback from organisations like the Human Rights Commission which are encouraging us to look at expanding the provision for these services. So if this SOP was to go through I think further consultation needs to be had and I think the submitters were really clear anyway that more work needs to be done beyond this bill both in terms of information campaigns and in reviewing the language that we use. So I think no one is disputing that. Again we're waiting to hear from the National members but I think I also don't want to fall into a sort of all-or-nothing space in terms of the discipline aspect of the training because the SOP was I think quite precise in terms of naming that it would only be one of the organisations that can designate a private trainer. Again I would love to hear from the member Penny Simmonds. I do acknowledge her work in the disability sector and I do want to also acknowledge the conversations I have had with Mojo Mathers who drafted this bill on this specific issue. I think as Parliament we will need to be continuously taking steps to genuinely ensure that our processes are participatory. I know the chair was really great when it came to ensuring our select committee process was really inclusive and I think as part of that we should continue genuinely engaging with disabled people to ensure that our legislation is fit for purpose."