Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:606;Page:3633] 
2.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations 
: What is the timeframe to settle all Treaty claims in line with the Government’s stated priorities at the last election? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations) 
: 
 In the Labour 2002 election manifesto there was a commitment under Maori development to continue with and improve the treaty settlements process. We have continued to do that and aim to complete the settlement of historical grievances as soon as possible. No artificial time frame has ever been set by Labour.  
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given the priority list that the member referred to and having regard to the fact that only nine claims have been settled in the last 28 years and 989 claims are still outstanding can the Minister tell us whether that means that it will take us another 3090 years to settle the rest and what are the poor Maori people going to do in the meantime? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: As I said one could put an artificial time frame on anything but at the moment we are making settlements at the rate of about one every 6 months. At present we have 25 different claimant groups at various stages of negotiations. So compared with the progress over the previous 10 years I think there is improvement in it. 
Mahara Okeroa 
: Why is it not sensible to have a predetermined termination date for the settlement of historical claims under the Treaty of Waitangi? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The settlement of historical grievances under the treaty involves two parties. Both parties must agree to the process and to any time frame. The days of the Crown unilaterally imposing its will on the claimant party are over. Further the process of settlement cannot usually commence until the tribunal has issued its report on the claim. If the Crown imposes an artificial time frame on either the tribunal or the claimants it runs the risk of creating further grievances. 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: Can the Minister confirm the statement made by the Secretary for Justice and the head of the Office of Treaty Settlements that at the current rate of progress and with current resources it will take 20 to 25 years before the historical claims are settled; if not how long does she estimate it will take? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: As I said one can guess any time and I guess that only time will tell whether that estimate is correct. As I understand it it was based on the fact that the tribunal which now has a new system of district casebooks thinks it will be about 2010 before it has completed all the districts. Given that negotiations normally continue after that I therefore presume that that was the reason for the time frame being given. In the meantime I have instructed that we look to see whether we can involve ourselves in direct negotiations on some matters while the tribunal is hearing. That is the approach we are testing with the central North Island. 
Stephen Franks 
: What time frame does the Minister estimate for the new claims that must surely be generated by the Crown’s deep ignorance of the treaty shown yesterday when a Minister scoffed at the core property guarantee of article 2 which he referred to as “something in the Treaty of Waitangi that I have missed after reading it many many times’’; and has she organised a tutorial for Mr Sutton? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I think the question asked what the time frame will be for new claims and I assume the member means contemporary claims as opposed to historical claims. Contemporary claims are somewhat difficult to estimate in terms of their time for settlement so it would be unwise for me—with contemporary claims just as with historical claims—to impose an artificial time frame. 
Stephen Franks 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was guessing at the question. The question was very simple. It was about new claims generated by Cabinet’s demonstrated ignorance of the treaty. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister is entitled to interpret the question the way she wishes and she addressed it. 
Metiria Turei 
: Can the Minister guarantee that no further treaty grievances will be created by this Government given its policy to build a prison in Ngawha that desecrates wahi tapu and is arguably a breach of article 2 of the treaty? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The Government is using its very best endeavours to make sure that no new grievances will be created which is why we are not prepared to put artificial time frames on the claims process. In terms of the specific matter the member raised my understanding is that yes of course there are differences within iwi on that matter but all the processes that should have been followed were followed but obviously not to the satisfaction of everyone. 
Murray Smith 
: Has she conducted an appraisal of the claims development team initiative instigated last year; if she did what was the outcome of the appraisal and if she did not why not? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No we have not offered an appraisal of that. It is just part of the normal performance review of the office. We are however in the process of doing an evaluation of the Waitangi Tribunal’s new approach. To some extent the two questions are combined. So far on the evidence we have we are very supportive of the tribunal’s new approach. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given that she has put into contention her glorious record and the fact that only five claims have been settled in the last 3½ years since she has been the Minister at a processing cost of over $40 million and claims still remain outstanding does that not mean that it will take 646 years to settle the rest of the claims at a cost of over $8 billion in processing costs? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: As I have said before one can speculate but that speculation will not necessarily be accurate. Therefore I prefer to refer the member to his own very sensible advice that he gave us all which was that it is time to recognise that hypocrisy and grandstanding must end. The time for the grand gesture and final solutions is over. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know that is part of a glorious speech but it has no relevance whatsoever to the time frame and cost of Waitangi settlements 989 of which remain outstanding. My question asked the Minister to give us some sort of time frame. I am not trying to obfuscate and evade the facts. She has a responsibility to this House and to this country. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister might care to make an additional comment. 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I can only reiterate that to put artificial time frames on a matter that involves two parties and not to recognise that there are two parties to that process would only invite further grievances.