Hipkins Chris: Student Loan Scheme Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Hipkins Chris: Student Loan Scheme Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Advance Copy - Subject to minor change before inclusion in Bound Volume.] 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 If that was Todd McClay’s audition for Cabinet I would not be making an appointment to see the Governor-General just yet. In fact Todd McClay talked about the 2005 election. That is kind of ironic because at the 2005 election I seem to recall the current leader of the National Party going up and down the country promising to fight interest-free student loans with every bone in his body. John Key must have become a bit of a jellyfish these days because interest-free student loans are still here after 3 years of a National Government. 
We do not know for how much longer they are going to be here of course because we know that Steven Joyce does not like them and at every opportunity that he gets Steven Joyce takes a pot-shot at interest-free student loans. The real question is who is going to win out in the end of that. Will it be Steven Joyce or will it be John Key? I suspect Steven Joyce is going to be around a little bit longer than John Key is so I suspect that Steven Joyce might just get there by attrition. But of course the question is when John Key goes. If he goes before the next election which is very possible then Steven Joyce might get his way. Of course if John Key holds out to the next election which he is bound to lose then Steven Joyce will not get his way because there will be a Labour Government and interest-free student loans will be here to stay. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Ha ha! It’s good to see a member with a sense of humour. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: We know that Maurice Williamson does not like interest-free student loans. He was another one who railed against them when the Labour Government introduced them yet now he is sitting there supporting interest-free student loans. Maurice Williamson of course is one of the National Ministers whom we can always rely on to say what he actually thinks rather than what he is told to say so if I was Maurice Williamson I would not be making an appointment to see the Governor-General for a position in Cabinet either. He has been— 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Oh really? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: No I really would not. I move to the substance of the Student Loan Scheme Amendment Bill and the issue of the repayment holidays which the current Government is decreasing from 3 years to 1. I thought it was interesting to go back and look at why they were increased in the first place from 1 year to 3. Of course that was done only back in 2005— 
Moana Mackey 
: Dunne! 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: It was only “Dunne” back in 2005 and there were some very I think pragmatic words offered to explain that at the time back on 27 March 2007 during the Committee stage of the debate. A member of the House who was arguing in favour of it said—and I think this is really good so I am going to quote from it; I know other members have quoted from it as well—“The reality they all faced was a very massive debt upon their return to New Zealand which in some cases would be enough for them to make the decision not to come home at all and our country would be the loser.” I agree with that sentiment. I think that if you create these huge penalties there is a risk that people will simply not come home in order to avoid them. But the quote goes on: “We needed to take a pragmatic way through this and being someone who places great virtue on pragmatism it struck me that the logical course of action was to derive the solution that we have: to extend the holiday period for 3 years recognising the fact that young New Zealanders take that extended period overseas;”. I thought those were very sage words of advice— 
Moana Mackey 
: Common sense. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Common sense in fact from “Mr Common Sense” himself Mr Peter Dunne. Unfortunately Peter Dunne’s pragmatism these days tends to go along the lines that the pragmatic approach is to vote for whatever the Government—whoever the Government is—is proposing in order to pragmatically hold his ministerial warrant. That seems to be the Peter Dunne approach these days. 
Andrew Little 
: Well known. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: That is right—that well-known pragmatic principle of supporting whatever is required in order to keep his ministerial job. 
I think Peter Dunne was right the first time. Peter Dunne was right the first time when he said the pragmatic thing to do was to extend the repayment holiday to 3 years. I assume that he is going to vote in favour of this new pragmatic decision to reverse his earlier pragmatic decision because if he is not going to—if he is going to stick with his first pragmatic stance—then the Government presumably will not have the numbers to pass this bill because of course it needs Peter Dunne’s vote to pass this. So I would invite Peter Dunne to in fact reverse his position and go back to the position that he held before. We will be testing that in the Committee of the whole House stage I am sure— 
Moana Mackey 
: To see which Peter Dunne. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: —to see which Peter Dunne will be coming out to play when this is debated in the Committee of the whole House stage. 
The reason why this is important is that all New Zealanders revel in the opportunity to go overseas at some point. Many people do that after they have studied and I want to make sure they come home again.