Macindoe Tim: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — Third ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeMacindoe Tim: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — Third Reading[Sitting date: 13 August 2015. Volume:707;Page:5832. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): I feel very proud of what we are on the cusp of doing tonight and that is giving the people of New Zealand an opportunity to do exactly what three out of four people voted to be able to do less than 12 months ago.I always listen to the Hon Nanaia Mahuta with respect and she knows I hold her in high regard. I have listened carefully to her arguments and I acknowledge some of them but I ask her to look around her colleagues and to think carefully about some of the arguments that they have advanced. She must be ashamed of some of the contributions that Labour members have made to this debate and of the fact that a party would put aside principle to go for short-term populist interests because they seem at the moment to resonate with the public because there is a certain mood out there. She needs to reflect again on the fact that the Labour Party went to the 2014 election less than 12 months ago saying that it had a policy that aims to “enhance knowledge appreciation and pride in New Zealand’s identity history biculturalism multiculturalism and other diversity community resilience distinctiveness… through a review of the design of the New Zealand flag involving flag design experts and with full public consultation and involvement.”—in other words exactly what we have just had and what we are continuing to do.I want to commend all 40 of those designs that have been short-listed. Some of them of course are by the same designer but there are a large number of designers whose work is represented there. They reflect a variety of symbols that give us choice and I have to say I would be very proud for a large number of those to be the New Zealand flag but I am going to put on record that along with many people I personally opt for the Kyle Lockwood red and blue fern with a Southern cross flag and I will explain why in a moment.I am absolutely appalled at the claptrap we have had to listen to particularly from the Labour Party but also from its friends in the Greens. There is absolutely no doubt that the vast majority of members of both of those parties want change in this area. They must be astonished that their representatives in this House have come here and are suddenly arguing for no change on an issue that they have all talked about for a very long time in many cases for many generations.When I spoke in the second reading of this debate I explained why it is quite a personal issue for me. We have heard a lot about what our military men and women may feel on this issue. I made the point that I am the great grandson the grandson the son and the nephew of men who fought in the New Zealand Army in the great conflicts of the late 19th and the 20th centuries: the Boer War the First World War and the Second World War. My uncle Ken was killed in action right at the end of the Second World War and he is buried in southern Italy. Along with all of those who could tell a similar story of being the descendants of people who fought for our country they would all acknowledge that the thing those men and in some cases women have in common is that they are buried with a symbol that is not the New Zealand flag—Su’a William Sio: Smile Tim. Smile.TIM MACINDOE: It is not the New Zealand flag Mr Sio; it is the silver fern.Su’a William Sio: Smile.TIM MACINDOE: I will smile if you would like me to because I am proud of what we are doing. I would say to Mr Sio that rather than treating this issue like a village idiot he too should turn to his colleagues and say: “This is serious and we are letting down the people who voted for us.” Those who voted Labour at the last election voted for what we are doing here today and I cannot believe that Labour is turning its back on its own policy less than a year later and trying to pretend that somehow it is doing this on a point of principle.I agreed with Marama Fox when she said earlier that the New Zealand men and women who have fought for this country fought for freedom they fought for values and they fought to maintain the way of life that we hold dear. Some may have had a sense of pride in a flag but they did not fight for that flag; they fought for our country and for those who are allied to us and who share those values and who wanted to supress tyranny and fight back against tyranny. I say to them “Thank you for that service.” and that is why I believe that at this time—far from Mr Mallard’s argument that it is disrespectful to be having this debate now—there is no better time for us to honour the legacy of those men and women than as we mark the centenary of Gallipoli and the 100-year period since World War I of 1914 to 1918.As we look at those who through the ages in New Zealand’s relatively short history have fought for us I believe that the symbol that they would most want to have on our flag is the symbol that is on their graves: the silver fern. It is as simple as that. That is why although I do believe in change in this issue I particularly want the fern on our flag. I am proud of my British heritage and most of us in this House—certainly not all but most of us—have some British heritage. The Union Jack is a fantastic flag. If I were British I would wear it I would fly it and I would proudly display it at all opportunities. But we are not British. We are 12500 miles away and it is a very long time since we were a British colony. The time therefore in my view is right to take that colonial emblem off our flag and to reassert our independence as a modern and progressive nation.I am absolutely sick of having the confusion with the Australian flag constantly thrown at us. When people are overseas and asked to identify the New Zealand flag hardly anyone can. Fifty years ago the Canadians had the same argument because they had a similar flag—it was just predominantly red instead of the blue that we have got. They had the same issue they changed to a symbol that they all identified with the maple leaf and which one of them would go back to that old flag now? Not one of them because they all now feel incredibly proud of that emblem that they wear and they fly and they display on their backpacks that says unashamedly: “We are Canadian. Well I want something that says: “We’re New Zealanders and let’s be recognised as New Zealanders right around the world.” The silver fern will do that but I also want to retain the stars of the Southern Cross. That is why I like that Kyle Lockwood design because of the Southern Cross with the stars that guided our Māori ancestors to this land. To my mind that is a wonderful way of honouring that legacy of the tangata whenua of this land while also putting something on the flag that we all embrace as New Zealanders of a modern era.As I said I am absolutely appalled by the duplicity and the populist hypocrisy of the 2015 version of the Labour Party which cannot even honour its own 2014 election policy. What an abuse of trust. For the leader of the Labour Party this year to say that he will not even vote in an election when last year he went on record and said that this is absolutely the right thing that this is what we should be doing and that this is the way to go about it is absolutely abominable.This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. If New Zealanders do not vote to change the flag this time most of us will not see the opportunity come again in our lifetime—maybe some of the younger members will but most of us will not—and here we are being told that the cost is an issue. Well it is the first time that New Zealanders have been given a chance—all of them—to say: “This is the flag I want.” What price democracy? It is an important decision to be made and I would suggest to you that it is money that is worth spending and it is worth doing the process correctly.I cannot believe that there are some who would argue that because there are other things we could spend the money on—and of course there always will be—we should not do it. Well that argument will apply next year and the year after and in 5 years’ time. That will never change. At some point we have to spend the money and I believe spending the money on having a truly democratic decision on this particular issue is really important.I will go back to the other issue that Mr Mallard raised earlier about going to tell the RSA what I think. I will accept an invitation from any RSA around the country to go and have this discussion because I find when I talk to returned servicemen and women that they do understand the argument when it is put. I repeat that I believe that we are honouring them their service and particularly those of their comrades who paid the ultimate sacrifice by having the symbol that is on the tombstones across Western Europe put on to their graves. I am as I said at the outset of this speech incredibly proud of the opportunity that we are delivering to the country. I am incredibly proud as a National MP that we are honouring the commitment that we took to the country last year and that we are standing by the policy that we campaigned on and I remind everybody listening that nearly three in every four people who voted in last year’s election voted for this. So let us get on and do what they voted for.