Goudie Sandra: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Goudie Sandra: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:653;Page:2584] 
5.  
SANDRA GOUDIE (National—Coromandel) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: What changes if any are proposed to the working relationship between the Department of Corrections and the New Zealand Parole Board? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 I am pleased to advise that since March in addition to uniformed staff our prison unit managers now attend Parole Board hearings for prisoners. This was a pre-election commitment to ensure that the Parole Board hears all relevant information about prisoners’ behaviour during their time in custody. I am pleased that it has been implemented so quickly. 
Sandra Goudie 
: How is this different from what occurred previously? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: In the past a corrections officer could attend a hearing with a prisoner even if he or she was not familiar with that prisoner or his or her behaviour. Now the responsibility is at unit manager level and those managers will attend hearings with prisoners from their own units—prisoners that they know well. This simple and sensible change will go a long way towards ensuring that the Parole Board has all the information it needs to accurately assess the risk of an offender. 
Sandra Goudie 
: Does the Minister believe that this change will improve public safety? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Yes. Gaps in communication represent a significant risk to public safety as we saw when the Parole Board freed Graeme Burton because it did not hear all the relevant information. This common-sense change reduces the likelihood of the type of communication breakdown that occurred when Burton was granted parole and I am surprised that the previous Minister of Corrections Phil Goff did not implement this change. 
David Garrett 
: What assurance will the Minister provide that prison officers and unit managers who tell the truth about scumbag prisoners will be protected from potential legal action brought by or on behalf of such persons? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: That question actually highlights that this is a very serious issue and one that the Opposition obviously does not think is serious. Our prison officers deal with 8500 of the most dangerous people in New Zealand and every day their lives and the lives of their families are at risk. It is something that the Opposition should consider when it laughs all the way through that question. One of the steps I think that we have taken is that I have made it very plain to the management of the Department of Corrections that I expect that staff safety must be a priority and that any actions that are taken to threaten our staff will be met in kind. 
David Garrett 
: If parole is a privilege and not a right does the Minister agree that a prisoner’s right to privacy must be reassessed especially with regard to information about prisoners and their conduct being placed before the Parole Board; if not why not? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I do not have the responsibility for the Parole Board but certainly in relation to the Department of Corrections I am fully of the opinion that the department should provide the Parole Board with all relevant information relating to the prisoner the likely risk of reoffending and the threat to the community. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: In light of that answer which is correct: the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet which has the New Zealand Parole Board listed—and I have a copy of the document here—under the ministerial responsibilities of the Minister of Corrections; or the Minister herself who said in response to question for written answer No. 1385 in 2009 and she has reiterated it now that she is not responsible for the New Zealand Parole Board? I am reliant on documents that I have here; perhaps she may wish to do her homework. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: My information is that I am correct and the Minister of Justice seems to be indicating accordingly. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have checked the delegation list and I have in front of me a document I have printed off today of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet’s list of ministerial portfolios for corrections where it lists joint responsibility for the Parole Act between justice and corrections. But it lists clearly: “Ministerial Portfolios - Corrections Minister—Minister of Corrections … Other Organisations—New Zealand Parole Board”. You have said very clearly that you have to take a Minister’s word in respect— 
Hon Member 
: Oh come on! 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I am making a serious point. You have said very clearly that you have to take a Minister’s word as to whether he or she is responsible in respect of questions about ministerial responsibility. That is the first document. The second document is the answer I quoted stating “I do not have the responsibility for the Parole Board” so could we have some assistance? 
Hon Simon Power 
: I think I am correct in saying that the member may find that Vote Corrections provides the funding for the administration of the Parole Board and I may have responsibility for the Parole Act in that sense. I think it is pretty unclear though. The Parole Board itself as an independent entity may report to the Minister of Justice but I am not sure that it is right to say that any Minister specifically has responsibility for the board. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: That is not actually the issue. The issue is that we have two responses. We have a response on the one hand and reiterated in this House that the Minister is not responsible—and the Government is responsible for telling us which of its Ministers is responsible I would have thought—and we have a document from the Government’s own Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet that lists responsibility for the New Zealand Parole Board as being with the Minister of Corrections. If the information is incorrect and there is a mistake then it is up to the Government to correct that. But how are we expected to take the Minister at her word? Which word should we take; which document should we believe? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is not the role of the Speaker to sort out such matters of ministerial responsibility and neither is it the proper process in this House. If the member is concerned about that matter he should pursue it with the Government to further elucidate who is responsible. But as Speaker I cannot adjudicate on these matters. I have no way of knowing which Minister is responsible in my role of Speaker. If the member believes the House is being misled there are avenues available for him to pursue that but I do not believe we can litigate the matter in this manner in the House right now. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Hon Simon Power 
: Get a life! 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Points of order are to be taken in silence. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Let me hear the point of order. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I make this point to you. You have said quite rightly that you have to accept a Minister’s word about the responsibilities he or she does or does not have. My question is simply to ask which word of the Minister of Corrections we are to believe. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I do not think that I can be responsible for the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet but I have already said the information that I have been provided is that the Parole Board is not something for which I am actually responsible. I am certainly responsible for information that the Department of Corrections provides to it—I have made that plain. If there is an error then I am happy to correct it but I am not responsible under any circumstances for the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet.