Power Simon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Power Simon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:628;Page:690] 
6.  
SIMON POWER (National—Rangitikei) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development and Employment 
: Does he stand by his statement to the House yesterday in relation to his authorisation of the leaking of his police file “I gave no instruction other than being completely honest with the media to my press secretary”; if not why not? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
: 
 Yes. I authorised the release of information to a Sunday newspaper to provide balance to the misinformation provided to the House last week by Rodney Hide. Of course I have an expectation that my press secretary will deal with the media in a clear and truthful manner. As soon as I became aware of this issue I arranged for it to be corrected. The staff member involved was in error. This is now a staff disciplinary matter. 
Simon Power 
: Can the Minister then explain why his press secretary will not confirm whether that Minister directed him to be honest to the media and does that not leave the impression that the press secretary does not want to have to mislead the media twice in less than a week? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am aware that my press secretary was rung yesterday by the New Zealand Press Association and asked to comment on his disciplinary matter. My press secretary declined to comment on the basis that it was inappropriate to comment on the matter. My press secretary advises me that the New Zealand Press Association has drawn an incorrect inference from his decision not to comment. 
Simon Power 
: How does the Minister expect this House to believe that his staff member was briefed to act honestly when that staff member leaked an embargoed police report selectively made available quotes from that report set up a “no comment” scenario for the Minister and even suggested that the police had leaked the report? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I do not agree with those propositions. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Did the member not hear the answer? 
Rodney Hide 
: No and I am sure it was a good one. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Members know that they have that in their own hands. I have warned the House before that there are to be no interventions during questions. Answers are a different matter. The noise level was high and I am not surprised that the member could not hear. If the Minister would like to repeat his answer for the benefit of members then would he please do so. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I do not agree with those propositions. 
Simon Power 
: Why did the Minister not agree to have the leaked material attributed to him in the first place and why did he later that day refuse requests from the newspaper in question to comment if he and his office were not deliberately trying to conceal that he and his office were the source of the leak? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I can repeat that I authorised the release of the information to the  
Herald on Sunday 
 to provide balance to the misinformation provided to the House last week by Rodney Hide. 
Simon Power 
: Has the Minister read the numerous editorials today that condemn his behaviour in particular the  
Dominion Post  
editorial which states: “… Mr Benson-Pope’s clumsy attempts to manipulate public opinion by damning his accusers labelling police language ‘a bit bozo-ish’ reinventing the meaning the meaning of prima facie and leaking selected extracts of the police report … do nothing to inspire anyone with confidence that he is a fit person to hold a ministerial portfolio.”; if so does he agree he is not a fit person to hold a ministerial portfolio and will he resign? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: Yes and no. 
Rodney Hide 
: Is it not the case that there is only one person in the Minister’s office who is having trouble with honesty and it is the Minister and why does he not do the decent thing and resign from Cabinet and indeed from Parliament for having lied to this Parliament lied to the people of New Zealand— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member knows that that is unparliamentary language. I ask the member to withdraw it and to rephrase that part of his question. 
Rodney Hide 
: I withdraw it. I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. What phrase would be parliamentary to describe what this Minister has been doing to this Parliament for all these months? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: As the member knows far be it for the Speaker to assume what members will ask. It is for the member to ask the question not the Speaker. I ask the member to please readdress the question without that phrase. 
Rodney Hide 
: Is it not the case that there is only one person in his office who is having trouble with honesty and that person is the Minister; and why does he not do the decent thing and resign from Cabinet and from this Parliament for having deliberately misled Parliament for having deliberately misled— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member knows that reference to a deliberate misleading is also not acceptable parliamentary language. Would the member like to try again please and rephrase that. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It seems to me that the member has got to the point now where he must withdraw and apologise. He knew what he was doing there and he repeated the phrase for the purpose of making sure that everybody noticed what he was doing. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I agree with that. Would the member please withdraw and apologise and have another attempt—the last attempt—at rephrasing the question in— 
Ron Mark 
: Point of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am ruling. So would the member please withdraw and apologise and then have another go at rephrasing his question in a way that is consistent with the Standing Orders and Speakers’ Rulings. 
Rodney Hide 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I appeal to you on the grounds of consistency of ruling. Yesterday the Rt Hon Winston Peters placed a number of supplementary questions on the floor of this House that were ruled by you to be out of order. Later in the day he tried to ask another supplementary question on the basis that his questions had not been accepted and therefore he had not actually asked them. You ruled that his questions had been ruled out of order and therefore he had lost them. Rodney Hide has had two chances to put his supplementary question. He has failed on both occasions and he has deliberately defied your ruling. I would have thought—and I appeal to you—that he has had his chance. Just like the Rt Hon Winston Peters yesterday he has failed to present an acceptable supplementary question and therefore he should be deemed to have lost it. I ask on the grounds of consistency and fairness that you rule he has had his chance and that you move on. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The questions yesterday were ruled out of order because they were not consistent with the original question. Mr Hide has yet to complete his question. He gets one last opportunity to do so. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Mr Mark raises a very important point and I think it requires some careful elucidation by you of the situation. The smaller parties are particularly affected by the way in which the number of supplementary questions is allocated. If a member has two attempts gets it wrong and then loses his or her question for instance that has a much more significant impact on a smaller party which may be getting only one or two supplementary questions a day than on a larger party. Yesterday you ruled against the leader of New Zealand First because his attempt to ask a supplementary question had invalidated his total number. You now seem to be saying that a different set of circumstances applies today in respect of Mr Hide who is potentially equally adversely affected. This issue will come back during the course of this Parliament and I think it would be very useful to have a careful ruling on precisely what conditions and what actions by members will invalidate their right to ask supplementary questions. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member. In this case it was not the question that was out of order; it was the use of language in putting the question that was ruled out of order. As I said would the member please succinctly ask his question and this is the last opportunity to do so. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My point of order is not against Mr Peter Dunne who was quite right but against Mr Ron Mark who was actually using a point of order to question your ruling— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have already ruled on that matter. This is not a new point of order; it is in fact a questioning of that ruling. Would the member just ask his question. 
Rodney Hide 
: Is it not the case that there is only one person in his office who is having trouble with honesty and that person is the Minister; and why will he not do the decent thing and resign from Cabinet and indeed from this Parliament for his less than honest comments in this Parliament to the news media to the police and to the people of New Zealand? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: No and I certainly do not agree with the member’s proposition. 
Simon Power 
: Why did the Minister not take his own supposed advice that his staff should be completely honest with the media when he himself chose to release a selective and deceptive analysis of his police file to tell the media that the release of the police report was in the hands of the police and then to leak it himself? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I do not agree with the propositions of the member. The material that was released was not selective. Also as I said previously it contained comment quite critical of myself. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I struggled to hear what the Minister was saying. He offers so little explanation that we might have actually had a good one and I misheard it. I could not hear it. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: This will be the last time that I will do this because members have it in their own hands in terms of their response. Would the Minister just repeat his answer for the benefit of the member. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I commented that the material that was released was not selective and did contain comment critical of myself.