Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:617;Page:12839] 
4.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Deputy Prime Minister 
: What are the compliance costs for councils and resource consent applicants arising from the amendments to the Resource Management Act 1991 identified in the explanatory note to the Foreshore and Seabed Bill? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister) 
: 
 There are potentially some small additional costs to resource consent applicants where a customary right has been awarded. Should the rights-holder withhold approval these costs may be offset by savings elsewhere in the consents system. These savings will accrue to councils because the recognition of Maori ancestral connection will make it clear which Maori the council should be consulting under existing Resource Management Act provisions and those in the bill. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How long will it be before the rules for the use of the foreshore and seabed will be clear noting that firstly the bill will need to be passed—and that is unlikely to occur before Christmas—and secondly the Maori Land Court will have to process hundreds of claims for customary rights and ancestral connection orders and that this is likely to take at least 2 years and that councils will then have to amend their coastal plans to take into account the recognition of those ancestral connections and customary rights orders and that that will also be subject to appeal to the Environment Court? So how many years will it be before people know what the rules are for consents on the foreshore and seabed? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question was very long but I will allow the Minister to answer. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: It is certainly not true that there would be an appeal to the Environment Court on the matter of the registration of those customary rights. The member should once again read the bill. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question asked how long it would take for those processes set out in the bill. I do not think it is acceptable in the House for the Minister to simply say that I should read the bill. I have read it. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: If that had been the question the member would have got an answer but he decided to add a whole lot of other stuff. If members ask many questions as part of a question they are open to being given one answer to one part of the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is perfectly correct and in order. 
Dail Jones 
: What comparison is there between the simple procedure set out in the Foreshore and Seabed Bill for those who claim the use rights and register them for the benefit of those who apply for resource consents and the expensive application procedures in terms of the Resource Management Act requiring consideration of “the relationship of Maori and their culture and traditions with their ancestral lands water sites wahi tapu and other taonga” as stipulated in the National Party’s legislation? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The bill will provide a much clearer set of rules around what actually occurs and over time it will be much easier for local authorities to work with which is why except for the Mayor of Nelson Local Government New Zealand has actually been in favour of the legislation. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Has the Minister considered and called for reports from officials on the impact of the foreshore and seabed legislation on other regulatory processes such as marine farming rights biotechnology rights the property rights of farmers and the impact on fishery allocations and quotas; if so what is the economic cost of compliance for each one of those groups? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Not specifically but if I can pick up on one example I am not aware of any farming occurring over the foreshore and seabed. I am sure therefore there will be minimal costs to farmers involved in the new procedures. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Is he aware that the aquaculture industry grew from $50 million in exports in 1990 to $150 million in exports in 1999 but that has stalled since Labour came to office and imposed the moratorium and that the convoluted processes under the Foreshore and Seabed Bill will further stall the growth of this industry for years; and might the Minister explain how depriving this country of the huge economic opportunities for years under this bill somehow helps New Zealand? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am not going to warn any members more than once; there will be no interjections while questions are being asked. I will listen to the question and determine when it is to be answered. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I was aware of a great mess that we inherited in terms of a rush of applications in regard to aquaculture. I am also aware the Government is on the point of making decisions very soon in order to allow us to proceed to lift the moratorium at the end of this year. I am further aware that if we adopted the position as outlined by the Court of Appeal decision there would be much greater uncertainty for an extraordinary long period of time as the process of customary land status applications which are highly uncertain in their outcome and meaning proceeded through the current system. 
Dail Jones 
: Does the Foreshore and Seabed Bill referred to in the question guarantee the public the right to be on the public foreshore and seabed and to enjoy the public foreshore and seabed do clauses 51 and 69 ensure these rights cannot be affected by ancestral connection orders or customary rights orders and were the New Zealand First Party and the Labour Party the only parties to vote for the right of the public to enjoy these rights? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I think the answer to all those questions is yes. Perhaps the University of Canterbury might care to employ the member on this matter rather than Mr David Round. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Can the Minister now answer my earlier supplementary question as to how long it will take for the processes in his bill to be concluded—that is the passage of the bill the processing by the Maori Land Court on the ancestral connection claims and the claims for customary rights and then the changes in the regional plans that flow on from those changes so that citizens out there might know what the rules are in respect of the foreshore and seabed? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The last element the member refers to is not a complex procedure at all. Once a specific customary usage right is recognised it is simply registered on the local plan. Compared with the alternative policy—the only one I have heard explained in detail which is to legislate for Crown ownership but in fact therefore to leave open the prospect of going to the High Court for an exploration of the full nature and extent of customary rights—this is a far simpler and more precise process. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has the Deputy Prime Minister considered putting some funds and resources aside so that certain members of Parliament who are running around the country misleading— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Here we go. The white knight. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Did the member say the “wide” one? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I have warned members. Mr Brownlee does happen to be in a certain privileged position in this place and he knows he should not have interjected at that point. On this occasion I will ask him to stand withdraw and apologise. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please start again. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has the Deputy Prime Minister given consideration to setting aside resources and finances to enable certain members of Parliament who are running around this country misinforming the public to be properly educated on the provisions of this bill which is clearly not the case now? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No but in just over 2 weeks I will be presenting a Budget that is both prudent and is spending significant sums on assistance for low to middle income families. Unfortunately I do not have any money left over for the impossible task of trying to educate members of the National Party.