Ngaro AlfredHon ALFRED NGARO (National): Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. It's an honour to take a call in the second reading for my friend and colleague Harete Hipango as we are talking about the Health and Safety at Work (Volunteer Associations) Amendment Bill. Having previously been the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector the sector is one that is often misunderstood and underrepresented in many different ways. There are 157 million hours per annum that are gifted to this community—to this nation—every single year. That's quite significant: 114132 not-for-profit organisations and 27900 registered charitable trusts. That's really significant. The significant point that I want to focus on in this speech in regards to this bill is that 90 percent of those who are part of those organisations are volunteers—only 10 percent are paid staff. And the biggest challenge and those of us who have run not-for-profit organisations know which relates to this bill is the challenge to get certain expertise. It could be legal it could be accounting—financial in fact. Those are the skill sets that have the most burden on those organisations in regards to having that support.So why does this bill becomes significant? I want to point to three reasons why. First of all this was a bill that came from the community. There were a number of providers who said Look with this bill around the Health and Safety at Work Act there was a need to understand the unintended consequences of that bill." And in particular it was around the person conducting a business or undertaking (PCBU) and I know that the member the Hon Clare Curran has talked about that and the PCBU. She asked the question "So where was the burden?" First of all I want to also declare that Marama Davidson was talking about the duty of care. This does not remove the duty of care. Where the burden lies in regard to this bill is in particular around the PCBU. It's the personal liability.Now for someone who's an accountant who wants to contribute maybe 10 to 15 hours to a not-for-profit organisation—it could be a refuge; it could be a welfare organisation—they know that they need that support. Back of office becomes critically important to the integrity of that organisation. So when they offer their services they purely want to do it come in do the books and leave. Under the current legislation they are now liable for $300000 under personal liability and as an organisation the organisation is liable for $600000. So what we are asking for is discretion here. It does not remove the duty of care of responsibility to supply those sorts of services whether it be counselling youth work or social work. This is purely around the back of office support services that are critically important.And that's the submission that you would have heard. Members on the opposite side talked about small organisations. It was almost demeaning those small organisations. Well that's the point of the bill: a private member's bill is all about small changes—tweaks that happen to a major piece of legislation. It's those tweaks that actually help because they come out of unintended consequences. The message that we want to send to our communities out there who have come to us in this regard to my good friend and colleague Harete Hipango is about the fact that this unintended consequence will impact the service and the generosity of support that we want to give.I want to tell the members on the other side and those who are listening that we now have at the moment 157 million hours but we have a reduction over the period of the last 10 years of those who are volunteering as far as personnel. They are reducing because they're time poor; they don't have the opportunity to give as much time as they used to. However what they will do in the time that is available to them is they want to be able to enter into that organisation provide their service and their support and be able to leave. Under this legislation at the moment what it will currently do is put the burden of responsibility—and no I'll just remind the member across there who's shouting—the personal liability of $300000. It's not too hard to ask that there be discretion here that would allow for those. It does not mean that they will be in situations to provide a service that could jeopardise the integrity of that organisation; it's simply to support them. That's what this bill was. We would hope that New Zealand First would see that. They supported it at the first reading to go to the select committee. When it came out of the select committee yes it did say that they didn't want it; however it is only a small bill. Members' bills are only small changes—tweaks—to the biggest legislation.I just want to reiterate and I hope that in the few hours that we have left—well we probably won't because we won't finish the reading of this bill but maybe this is important because it'll be given consideration over the next week.Debate interrupted.The House adjourned at 10 p.m."