2. Question No. 2—FinanceHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour—Mana) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 2—Finance2. Hon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour—Mana) to the Minister of Finance: Can she confirm that she told the Finance and Expenditure Committee this morning that the Government would be borrowing more in the future and how much is the Government intending to borrow?Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): No I did not say that. I checked the transcripts and as has become a habit from this member she's paraphrased me in a way that is inaccurate. She also when we read the transcript find that the reason that she may not have heard my actual words is that she was interrupting continuously. In fact what the case is is that what I said was yes we will be borrowing. That should not—[Interruption] In fact what I said was that yes we would be borrowing. That should not be a revelation to the member because since the dawn of time Governments have borrowed in order to finance their activities. If the member wants information about the bond issuance that the Government is doing over the forecast period and wants to learn a bit more about how that works she can go to the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update on page 45 where it outlines those intentions.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Mr Speaker—supplementary.SPEAKER: Just wait for your friends to quieten down.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Would the borrowing for day-to-day costs as confirmed by the Minister in the Finance and Expenditure Committee today be higher or lower if she had not restored interest deductibility and was not pursuing her tax cut package?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: This Government has set a clear goal of having net core Crown debt reduce as a proportion of GDP in stark contrast with other members in this House including the one who just asked a question who said that she would be comfortable with debt increasing. So the position we have is a member opposite who is concerned suddenly about structural deficits. And what I would point out to her is that if the Government continued the pattern of extraordinary ineffective spending that has been the case in recent years the structural deficit and therefore borrowing would have to grow considerably. I can also say—[Interruption] I am trying to help the member with the answer to the question. I can also say that we have committed to a lower operating allowance than that committed to by the previous Government.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does she accept that if she did not restore interest deductibility or pursue tax cuts debt would at least be $11 billion lower with all things being equal?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well with all things being equal we would be continuing to plough billions more dollars into wasteful programmes. And the deal we did with New Zealanders was this: we said we're going to spend their money more effectively we're going to reduce the amount of money on back-office bureaucracy we're going to stop subsidies for private firms to decarbonise and we're going to take those savings and we're going to invest them in tax relief. What the member now wants the House to accept is we would do one without the other. Actually if she's saying that Labour's suddenly woken up and thinks savings are a good idea then what a great revelation that is!Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does she accept that ANZ senior economist Miles Workman is correct that there is a counterfactual that if the Government did not deliver those tax cuts and cut spending as it says it will it would offset the economic drivers of higher debt as reported in Stuff?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I have seen the ANZ's response to the Budget policy update in which it identified that the fiscal track and the approach being taken by the incoming Government is more restrictive on spending than the last Government.Hon Barbara Edmonds: How can she possibly say that she is not borrowing to pay for her tax package when she confirmed to the Finance and Expenditure Committee today that ultimately it is all funded from the same place?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Because I am not borrowing for our tax package. Because what we are doing is—[Interruption] They either want the answer or they don't I guess.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does she agree with Nicola Willis who promised to achieve a surplus in 2026-27 reduce Government debt by $3.4 billion compared with the Pre-election Economic and Fiscal Update not borrow for tax cuts not cut front-line services and introduce no new taxes; and are there any promises she doesn't intend to break?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Not only do I agree that we will keep our commitments what I also agree is that it is a very good thing that this Government was elected because if it wasn't we would be continuing as a country down a path of deepening structural deficit of escalating debt of wasteful spending and high inflation and I am so glad that the adults are back in charge.Hon Chris Bishop: What reports has she received about alternative approaches to borrowing and debt?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well I have seen a report from Radio New Zealand that said that Labour's finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said a future Labour Government would consider taking on more debt. [Interruption]SPEAKER: I know that today is the last day of a long sitting block but that sort of—[Interruption] No one's gone from the House yet but they may well be close.