Parker David: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeParker David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 05 April 2016. Volume:712;Page:10154. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]11.Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) to the Minister for the Environment: Does he accept that people wanting a swimmable standard for rivers are seeking to stop pollution by farms factories and towns making otherwise swimmable rivers so dirty that they are unsafe to swim in at normal rather than flood flows?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment): I have heard the views of hundreds of people at the 10 public meetings to date on the Government’s proposals to strengthen the national freshwater requirements on councils but it is impossible to define them as a single point of view. Some have expressed a view that we should legislate for all water bodies to be swimmable all of the time even though this is not practical. Most people including myself want tougher pollution rules that will ensure that our rivers are swimmable as often as possible. I am open-minded about the swimmability provisions and about making it more explicit to regional councils that New Zealanders expect to be able to swim in their local river as long as these provisions are practical and enforceable.Hon David Parker: Why do he and the Prime Minister keep putting up false excuses against swimmability like poor water quality when rivers are in flood?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I would note that when Prime Minister John Key was elected to office New Zealand had no national rules around water quality—absolutely none at all. So I do take it as a little bit rich for a member of the former Government to be complaining about the rules that this Government has put in place because they are the toughest rules around improving freshwater quality in New Zealandand improving swimmability of our waterways that have ever been put in place by a Government.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was an interesting answer but it did not address my question which was short and straight.Mr SPEAKER: No the member in his question used the words “putting up false excuses”—[Interruption] Order! The Minister took the opportunity to rebut that quite strongly.Hon David Parker: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. He did not. He did not provide any explanation as to why they are saying that flooded rivers are why they—Mr SPEAKER: Order! He addressed the issue of whether the Prime Minister and he were putting up false excuses.Hon David Parker: Does he accept that he made the Prime Minister look foolish on Radio New Zealand National yesterday by adopting the “flooded river” excuse for polluted rivers when New Zealanders do not go swimming in silt-laden rivers in flood that could sweep them away to their deaths?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The only politician I have seen looking foolish is the Leader of the Opposition which occurs so frequently that it is almost a daily event—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I accept that the question had a political tone but if the Minister could address the question.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: There are others who are demanding that it be a legal requirement that every river and every stream be swimmable 100 percent of the time. And as a practical engineer I point out that passing such a law would mean that most water bodies would always breach that standard during high-flow events and that is why both the Prime Minister and I are saying that we want tougher rules and we want better water quality but that we want rules that are also practical for councils to enforce.Hon David Parker: Does he believe that New Zealanders should normally be able to swim in their local river?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Yes I do. And that is why this Government has invested over $300 million in clean-ups. That is why this Government has put the first national regulations in place in respect of water metering.Dr Megan Woods: They’re getting dirtier. They’re getting worse.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: And for those members who say that it is getting worse I point this out: the very first time that a dairy farm expansion or new consent has been turned down has been under our Government as a consequence of national policy statements. If they travel to Southland if they travel to Hawke’s Bay if they travel to those areas that are water quality then any honest water-quality scientist will say firstly that these problems go back a good 20 or 30 years and secondly that this Government is making more progress than any in our history.Hon David Parker: Given his quite proper acknowledgment last week that the main cause of declining water quality is pollution from livestock effluent and fertiliser why can he not also admit that it is his failure to stop increased farm pollution of our rivers that is causing the problem and why he is so out of touch with New Zealanders who just want their rivers to be swimmable?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: This Parliament this afternoon is about to debate the Environment Canterbury legislation. In that legislation the commissioners have actually put red zones in a third of Canterbury which have actually limited agricultural expansion. Actually the regional council was in place for 20 years and never put any limits in place on the expansion of agriculture. In areas like Southland in areas like Hawke’s Bay in areas like the Waikato it is only during the term of this Government that those diffuse pollution issues that are so challenging are actually being addressed.