Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:612;Page:9310] 
8.  
RON MARK (NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Does he believe that the Department of Corrections’ internal investigation into the emergency response unit meets the requirements of transparency accountability and integrity? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 Generally yes. Within the constraints of the Privacy Act as much of the investigation’s findings have been released as is possible. Members of the emergency response unit were held accountable for their actions and disciplined and systems have been changed as a result. 
Ron Mark 
: How can the Minister say that it meets those requirements when the investigating officer Mr Tony Dyer on Saturday 18 October stated: “Managers being investigated were able to refuse to be tape-recorded; managers could refuse to be interviewed until after they had received full transcripts of the witnesses’ interviews and in some cases a copy of the questions we intended to ask; managers who were controlling the investigative process had clearly been involved in some of the decisions being made and were now being investigated; and senior managers went on leave when they were required for interviews.”? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Yes I have seen the article that the member refers to. I think it is fair to say that virtually all the allegations made in it are true except the one right at the end which I am investigating. They have all come out before. The reality is that with the way the system worked natural justice meant that the people who were being accused of things had a right of reply and it seems that that is one of the things the member is upset about. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: In light of the public debate regarding the “goon squad” a prison officer being charged with smuggling methamphetamine into Rimutaka Prison and now news that five prisoners are taking the Public Prisons Service to court on allegations of cruel treatment why is this Minister intent on abolishing the private prison contract with the Auckland Central Remand Prison and replacing it with the very same Public Prisons Service that is causing him so many troubles? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: If that member wants to defend the record of private prisons around the world I am very very happy to provide him with that information. The reality about the private prison is that that is a Government commitment which we are going to honour. Although we cannot talk about that particular case I am interested once again to hear that member sticking up for criminals instead of prison officers. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member withdrew and apologised for that last sentence which he was going to be required to do. 
Mahara Okeroa 
: What should people do if they have any further information regarding the emergency response unit? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As I have said previously if people have any new information they should pass it on to me the State Services Commission or the Ombudsman. I am still waiting. 
Marc Alexander 
: By whose authority was the emergency response unit given funding how much was allocated and given the grievances arising from both inmates and corrections staff as a consequence just how much has the “goon squad” so far ended up costing the taxpayers of this country? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are three questions there. The Minister can answer two of them. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: That is quite detailed information and I do not have it in front of me. If the member wants to put that matter down as a question or come and see me I will be happy to provide him with the information. 
Ron Mark 
: If the Minister were to receive in confidence the names of prison officers—I repeat prison officers—who are prepared to state on oath to an independent investigator that aspects of the department’s evidence presented to investigators regarding the death of inmate David Rewi Haimona were at variance with their observations of the events that key persons who witnessed the events surrounding the death of inmate Haimona were never interviewed and were specifically excluded and that affidavits were put in front of prison officers for them to sign that contained falsities would he immediately ask the State Services Commissioner to launch a totally independent inquiry into that evidence or would he simply do as he is continuing to do and cover up for inept management by the Department of Corrections? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As I have said to that member both publicly and privately I would welcome some new information. As the member knows I am considering a range of options but if the member were to give me in confidence the names of those people of course that would be part of my decision making in looking at where we should go. I have said that to the member on many occasions. 
Marc Alexander 
: How does the Minister expect the public to have confidence in the department when he has blocked attempts to hold a select committee inquiry into the activities of the “goon squad” and blocked both scrutiny and accountability on questions of payouts as a result of those activities—calling them employment related and hiding under that—thereby denying taxpayers who must fund these payments the right to know where and for what their money is being used? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As far as the select committee inquiry is concerned I have ruled that out and I have given very good reasons for that. As far as acknowledging payouts is concerned those are employment matters which come under different rules and that is the way it should remain. 
Marc Alexander 
: Why was Tony Dyer a member of the “goon squad” investigative team told to use a specific format and not to use detail but when the report was completed the 
detail was deemed to be insufficient for its findings to be supported and the Minister subsequently decided to block United Future New Zealand First and National demands for an inquiry when surely his rationale being based on the veracity of that report must itself be flawed and undermined by the report’s 
stated lack of credibility; if not why not? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I have seen these allegations and they have been looked into. But as I said I do not have a closed mind on where we should go to next. I am asking for new information that can help us decide where we should go from here.