SpeechJONATHAN YOUNG (National—New Plymouth): Thank you sir. I'd like to just acknowledge my colleague Anne Tolley's comments. Certainly our thoughts and compassion ought to go to women who have faced the agony and the trauma of an abortion procedure. Certainly it is very important that our laws do not stigmatise those women. It's very important that the law doesn't criminalise women as well. I'd like to just speak on perhaps an issue that has been touched by some of my other colleagues here in the House that essentially undergirds the Abortion Legislation Bill. The point being that it does not recognise any right of the unborn because in the Crimes Act the unborn is not considered a human being. Section 159 of the Crimes Act says A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it has completely proceeded in a living state from the body of its mother whether it has breathed or not whether it has an independent circulation or not and whether the navel string is severed or not". Many of us have received emails over these last 24 to 48 hours—particularly a large number from communities of faith in this country. Those that have a spiritual framework for their thinking their living they are diverse they are large they are hundreds of thousands and they most often believe that the point of recognising the humanness of a foetus is at the time of conception; which is why this is a difficult debate for this country. No matter what you believe whether from a sacred or secular point of view it is at the point of humanness that human rights are accorded.If I can just make a few points: that nowhere in our legislation in this country that underpins our democracy and our freedoms should the rights of one person undermine or extinguish the rights of another. This is I think one of the issues that we grapple with. This is why the foreshore and seabed hīkoi was one of the largest events because some felt that their rights were being extinguished. We don't allow the rights of parents to extinguish the rights of children. We don't see in our tenancy laws the rights of the landlord extinguishing the rights of tenants. So we have this tension and this battle between rights.In March 2017 this Parliament passed a historic bill to provide for the Whanganui River's long-term protection by making it a person in the eyes of the law. This is why the faith communities struggle because—as my colleague across the House made the comment—they perceive that life is given by a creator and they perceive that the seed of that life has the potential to become fully human. This is one of the vexed issues indeed.So I put it to this Parliament in these concluding thoughts that the foundation of our society is the recognition of the rights of the person and when and where we determine that the humanness is accorded to the living entity that is carried in a woman's womb is as I think the other member said something that families discuss and support that individual community groups—whether they be churches whether they be synagogues whether they be Islamic centres or whether they be maraes—that you can't legislate those sorts of determinations and decisions but they contribute to the complexity that this Parliament has to face.This bill goes further than removing the regulations and laws of abortion from the Crimes Act; it begins to take away nearly any and every limitation which I think people do struggle with. It uses very loose criteria for abortions after 20 weeks using terms such as "wellbeing" as a test without a strong definition of what that may be. [Time expired]SPEAKER: Order!JONATHAN YOUNG: Thank you sir for this opportunity to speak."