Sowry Roger: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Sowry Roger: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:611;Page:8442] 
2.  
Hon ROGER SOWRY (Deputy Leader—NZ National) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: Will the Maori Land Court have a role in determining the influence of iwi and hapu in the Government’s new “co-management perspective” over the seabed and foreshore; if so how? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Associate Minister of Justice) 
: 
 The nature and role of the Maori Land Court is one of the matters under consideration and as is stated in the Government’s proposals for consultation: “The Government seeks comment on whether the Maori Land Court jurisdiction extension would be a useful addition to the current range of mechanisms already in place with customary interests how the new jurisdiction might operate and the nature and rights that might be recognised.” 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: Does the Minister agree with the reported statement by the Hon Trevor Mallard that the four principles shaping proposed legislation were open to negotiation; if so does this mean that the Government has backtracked and will now not necessarily guarantee the public access to the beaches and foreshore? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No the Government has not backtracked. My understanding is that the comment from my colleague referred to the nature and the way in which those principles could be implemented not to changing the principles. 
Darren Hughes 
: Is the concept of co-management between Maori and the Government a new concept? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No the Ngai Tahu deed of settlement passed by the then National Government in 1998 included co-management provisions that protected Ngai Tahu’s historical cultural and spiritual links to specific sites. Also the 1992 arrangement between the Crown and the Tuwharetoa Maori Trust Board concerning Lake Taupo had similar provisions. I also note that former Prime Minister the Rt Hon Jim Bolger in 1995 offered to talk to Maori about greater self-management and co-management arrangements. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Is the Government’s new suggestion that iwi and hapu have co-management of the foreshore and seabed what she and the Prime Minister meant when they said on 30 June that the Government was seeking a “win-win” on the foreshore; if so how is it a win-win for the public to have iwi and hapu co-managing our favourite beaches? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: As I have just pointed out the whole notion of co-management is not a new notion at all. What was being sought were ideas from the process of consultation and discussion that if in fact a customary right was established by the Maori Land Court how that customary right could be implemented. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: What does the Government intend to do to build capacity in local government so that it is better able to recognise and respect customary rights so that co-management becomes a workable and viable option? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The proposals do highlight the importance of implementation of the proposals as much as the legal regulation. That is one of the matters we are engaging in with local government as to what they would see would be their requirements in this respect. 
Gordon Copeland 
: For the benefit of all New Zealanders will the Government define what is meant by “customary rights” in order to help clarify the influence iwi and hapu will have over ongoing management of the seabed and foreshore where such customary rights are found to exist; if not why not? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Strictly speaking it is for the Maori Land Court to define what is the “customary right”. However the process of consultation and discussion that is going on at the moment is to aid and assist what statutory guidance could be given to the court when it decides in a specific fact situation. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: How does the Government’s latest proposal that Maori will have some role in “co-management over the seabed and foreshore” differ from co-ownership? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I repeat that it is not a new notion. It is one of many tools that we are seeking a discussion on to ensure that the proposals can be fully implemented. I could go on at some length about the difference between ownership and management but I think the honourable member knows that as well as I do. 
Peter Brown 
: Noting the answer the Minister gave to Gordon Copeland that strictly speaking customary rights should be determined by the Maori Land Court can I take it that it is the Minister’s view that only Maori can have customary rights? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: In the context that the common law was talking about yes. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: Can the Minister inform the House as to whether the Government’s view of co-management means that iwi and hapu will have some say over the use to which the seabed and foreshore are put? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: It may assist the member if I refer him to page 101 of  
Healing the Past Building the Future 
 where there is a definition of co-management. It describes the activities where Government and communities are involved to greater or lesser degrees in providing information consultation cooperation with the community communication about initiatives advisory boards management boards and the like. It is not a concept that is confined only to Maori; it involves the whole community. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was very interesting but it in no way answered my question which was quite clear. I asked whether under the Government’s view of co-management iwi and hapu will have a say as to the use to which the seabed and foreshore are put. I see the Minister acknowledging that that was the question and I ask her whether we can get an answer to that. 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: I am happy to answer it. That is precisely one of the many proposals that are under discussion at the moment.