12. Apprenticeships—Numbers and Youth UnemploymentJENNY SALESA (Labour—Manukau East) to the Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and EmploymentApprenticeships—Numbers and Youth Unemployment12. JENNY SALESA (Labour—Manukau East) to the Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment: Does he agree with the Prime Minster that a huge number of young New Zealanders are in apprenticeships"; if so can he confirm that there were more than 10000 additional apprentices in 2008?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment): For the first part of the question firstly yes I do agree with the Prime Minister. In relation to the second part it is just not possible to directly compare figures in 2008 with figures in 2015 because as well as changes in data collection back then tens of thousands of trainees were only nominally enrolled in the scheme. In fact back then there were nearly 100000 industry trainees who were phantom trainees who achieved no credit and in some cases were even deceased. So in 2008 there were nominally 10000 additional trainees but back then the qualification achievement rate was only 34 percent whereas in 2015 it was 57 percent—so more apprentices are actually being trained now than back then.Jenny Salesa: Why is his Government using immigration as the easy route to solving skill shortages instead of training more than 70000 young New Zealanders who are not in education employment or training?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well the member is incorrect in that assertion because actually references to young people being immigrants actually refers primarily to students of whom around 75 percent leave the country again and people on working holiday schemes who nearly all leave about a year after they arrive. I think the member is quoting the Salvation Army report which makes two fundamental errors in not noticing those impacts. In relation to New Zealanders being trained as I just pointed out to the member New Zealanders are being trained far more effectively than they were back in 2008 with a 5-year qualification completion rate of apprenticeships at 57 percent now versus 34 percent back then—and back then it was appalling.Jenny Salesa: Does he think his Government has failed when 45.2 percent of young New Zealanders in Manukau East are unemployed?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member I am sorry misreads that data because you cannot actually say that. You cannot use unemployment data for youth and expect it to be accurate because most youth are in education not in employment. That is why Governments from both sides of the House for the last nearly 20 years have used the term "neets"—young people not in education employment or training—because it addresses the people not in education employment or training.Jenny Salesa: Does he agree with the conclusion of the Salvation Army report What Next? that the collapse in apprenticeship numbers points to poor planning on the part of the Government and does he accept any responsibility for that?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I cannot count the number of ways in which I disagree with that poorly prepared Salvation Army report which was frankly not something that you could consider research—which I think is a bit sad actually. This Government has just shown in the statistics that I have just read out to the member that it is training more people through apprenticeships than ever before. Labour used to enrol people and forget to train them.Jenny Salesa: Does he agree with Bill English and John Key that young Kiwis are "pretty damned hopeless" and is that not the real reason why his Government is favouring immigration over doing more for young unemployed Kiwis looking for work?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member's assertion is disgraceful."