Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:614;Page:10272] 
1. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development and Employment 
: What percentage of refugees and immigrants have obtained paid employment within 6 months of arriving in New Zealand since the election of the Labour Government in 1999? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
: 
 Information is not collected on the basis that the member’s question supposes. However information from the household labour force survey indicates that in the year to June 2003 half of the working-age people who were not born in New Zealand but who had been in New Zealand for less than 2 years were in the labour force and over 88 percent of those people were in employment. I should also note that migrants are not eligible for the unemployment benefit until they have been in New Zealand for 2 years. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why on earth is that information not collected given the constant defence by his colleagues the Minister of Immigration and himself of the mess that is going on in respect of immigration in this country which led him to say: “Around 50 percent of job seekers overall leave the unemployment benefit within 6 months of registering. However amongst migrant and refugee clients that figure is around 15 percent.” In other words 85 percent of our migrant and refugee job seekers are in danger of becoming long-term unemployed so what are they doing here and why are we paying for them? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Unfortunately the report that the member is referring to was from  
Morning Report 
 on Radio New Zealand and they forgot to put the word “if” in which they did later on. This is what my speech actually said: “If a migrant or refugee client comes on to the unemployment benefit”—that is if they do—“they face an 85 percent chance of still being on that benefit after 6 months compared with a 50 percent chance if they are New Zealand - born.” That picture has to be balanced against the fact that as at 31 October— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not referring to anything that was said on  
Morning Report 
; I am referring to the Minister’s comments made at the meeting for the launch of the Auckland Metropolitan Migrant and Refugee Strategy at the Work and Income regional office in Ellerslie. They were his comments and those are direct quotes. Now would he get back to telling me why 85 percent of our migrant and refugee job seekers are in danger of becoming long-term unemployed—his words—what are they are doing here and why are we the taxpayers of New Zealand paying for them? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister is confirming that what he said was not exactly what was reported. He is perfectly entitled to do that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is the ruling I have made Mr Peters— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Well you are wrong Mr Speaker with respect— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member may raise a point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am quoting from the Minister’s speech and he is not entitled to go to some other interview that he might have had debunk his own words from the speech I quoted and claim that I am wrong. I am referring to a speech he made. I have given him the exact quote I want an answer and I want you to tell him to give me an answer. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Mr Maharey speaking to the point of order. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I am happy to answer the question again. I was clarifying that in my speech the word “if” appears. That is if a migrant or refugee client comes on to the unemployment benefit he or she faces an 85 percent chance of being there—50 percent if one is New Zealand - born. The word “if” has to be used. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have a copy of the Minister’s speech but the quote he has just given the House is not anywhere to be found in the speech. I will quote from it and I want an answer from him as to why he said what I am quoting he said in his very speech. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member can ask that as a supplementary question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I already have. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister can continue his reply. The member interrupted his reply. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I can do no more than clarify for the member that the facts of the matter are that the word “if” needs to be in there. I said: “If a migrant or refugee client comes on to the unemployment benefit they face an 85 percent chance …” That is exactly what I said at the meeting in Auckland yesterday. 
Dianne Yates 
: How do numbers of recent refugees and migrants on a working-age benefit now compare with the same figures in 1999? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: There has been a 28 percent reduction in the number of recent refugees and migrants receiving any form of working-age benefit between October 1999 and October 2003. I repeat: it is a 28 percent reduction since we came into power. The unemployment benefit has been reduced by 34 percent during the same period. 
Katherine Rich 
: Has the Government considered any ideas to restrict welfare eligibility for recent migrants; if not why not? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Yes we have. Unlike the position under the previous Government persons arriving here as migrants wait 2 years before they can have access to the benefit system. Refugees of course have access to emergency benefits. The previous Government did not change that—we did. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I ask the Minister whether he said these words in his speech which I have a copy of: “Why should we have a particular focus on refugee and migrant job seekers? Around 50 percent of job seekers overall leave the unemployment benefit within 6 months of registering. However among migrant and refugee clients that figure is around 15 percent. In other words 85 percent of our migrant and refugee job seekers are in danger of becoming long-term unemployed.” Why is this Minister trying to duck what he said and belie the facts that everybody else knows about and what are these people doing here and why are long-suffering New Zealand taxpayers paying for it? [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before the Minister replies there were two interjections—one from a member who is not normally sitting on the front bench. That is the last time she interjects from there this question time or she is out. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: What they are doing is contributing—in the last year June to June—$700 million net to this economy. Only 1.3 percent of migrants are on the unemployment benefit as we speak. What Mr Peters has been reading out is exactly what I have said: people who are on the unemployment benefit relate to the figures of 85 percent or 50 percent. They have to get on there first. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Where was the word “if” in the quote I have just given the House? He began with a process of obfuscation and a waste of time. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is the very last time that I allow an interjection on a point of order. Please continue. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: You will recall what happened at the beginning of this question time. I quoted from this Minister he then said that I had left out the word “if” which does not appear in this quote at all—which he now at last recognises. That sort of behaviour from a senior Minister on the front bench is simply not good enough and must stop and you must make sure it stops. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is perfectly acceptable for the Minister to explain his version in that way. It is up to the Minister how he replies. I cannot adjudicate on disputes of that nature. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have given all the evidence for a clear case not of mistaken interpretation by the Minister but of straight-out lying! [ 
Interruption 
] Well I have. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will now stand withdraw and apologise for accusing another member of telling a lie. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw and apologise. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: You were continuing your point of order I hope. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: This is my point of order: I have laid out before you the exact quote from the transcript I have here. The word “if” is not present as the other words he just quoted are not. It is a clear attempt to misrepresent the situation in this House. What are you going to do about it? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: As I said I take an entirely different point of view from the member. It is perfectly acceptable for the Minister to explain his version in that way. 
Dianne Yates 
: What is the economic contribution of skilled migrants to New Zealand? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: That contribution is translated by Business and Economic Research Ltd into $700 million over the year June 2002 through to June 2003. That is $700 million net coming into this country. I repeat that these are people who—if we take the 206813 residence applications in the last 5 financial years—represent as we speak about 1.3 percent of those on an unemployment benefit.