6. Schools Funding—ReviewCHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of EducationSchools Funding—Review6. CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of Education: Does she still expect her Government will live up to the Prime Minister's statement regarding the review of the education funding system that the Government wouldn't really be progressing the issue unless they could get the other stakeholders on board—the unions and others"; if so will she now rule out implementing global budgets?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education): I can tell you that the Prime Minister and I are in complete agreement that we would like to get all stakeholders on board—parents teachers as well as unions—and that we need a system that delivers the right funding to the right child at the right time to ensure their educational success. If the member had chosen to provide the Prime Minister's full quote in context it would have been clear to the House that he was referring to advice I had provided to him that we should work with all stakeholders. In regard to the proposed global budgets—one of several proposals—we are still in an advisory group process including unions that then must be taken to Cabinet and therefore I cannot rule anything in or out at this stage of the consultation.Chris Hipkins: In light of her claim "it isn't bulk funding" what is the difference between her proposed global budgets and bulk funding?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The criticism of bulk funding from 20 years ago was that it incentivised the employment of younger less experienced—and therefore cheaper—salaried teachers. I might add at this point that we are finding it difficult to get young graduates appointed to permanent positions in schools but—coming back to the member's question—that is the only criticism of it. In the global budget we have provided for an average notional salary so that schools will be indifferent as to what level of expertise—Sue Moroney: No they won't.Hon HEKIA PARATA: —they employ into their schools. Yes I am sorry did you need me to go over that for you Sue—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The answer is finished.Chris Hipkins: Are the teachers wrong when they say proposed global budgets would mean parents on school boards of trustees "would have to make trade offs between the number of teachers they employ and the other non-teaching costs of running a school."; if so why?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The member is actually referring to unions rather than teachers. The unions have said—[Interruption] The unions held a press conference yesterday and said that this was what was proposed. The fact of the matter is that there are already flexibilities available in every school. In our self-managing system the boards and principals make decisions about where they deploy resources. So what we are trying to do is continue the theme of parents having greater choice schools having greater flexibility and real kids in real time getting great results through those decisions.Chris Hipkins: Under the proposed global budgets could schools opt to employ fewer teachers in exchange for more non-teaching funding if the Government froze their operating funding—as it did in this year's Budget?Hon HEKIA PARATA: These are all just proposals at this stage and under our system schools make different decisions all the time. The proposal around a global budget is to give them flexibilities. The proposal is also operating in the context where we have far more data than we have ever had before—which is highlighting what the actual achievement challenges are school by school. Therefore the choices each school will make will be different according to the educational challenges they have.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was quite specific about whether schools would or would not be able to do something under the proposal that she has put forward and she has not actually given an answer to that question.Mr SPEAKER: She has. If the member listened the Minister then said that because they are just proposals she cannot answer that. That is an answer that addresses the question. It may not be one that the member likes.Chris Hipkins: If schools employ fewer teachers with the same number of students will class sizes at those schools have to increase; if not how would they not increase?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The member is posing a hypothetical about what schools might do when they have very different challenges between them and they exercise flexibilities now. This approach gives them that greater licence to do so because the achievement challenges are different in different schools—just as under the current situation schools make different decisions about how they deploy their teacher-aides about whether they team teach or individually teach about whether they have shared classrooms or separate unit cells or whether they use different curriculum resources. These are all the prerogative of the professionals.Chris Hipkins: In making those decisions how could a school reduce the number of teachers it employs without either increasing class sizes or reducing the number of subjects available?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Again I am not going to be speaking to a hypothetical on behalf of 2500 schools that are making different decisions every day. This is a proposal. It is a very open and inclusive process with an advisory group that includes 17 representatives from across the sector. I am waiting to hear back from them with their advice on these particular issues."