Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:638;Page:8406] 
12.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she stand by her statement in respect of forestry and the Kyoto Protocol: “Nor was there any promise to industry that the credits would be devolved.”? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes but if the member has information from the time of the last National Government that he would like to throw into the equation I am all ears. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I actually have some information about her Government. How can the Prime Minister pretend that no promise was made to devolve credits to foresters when in July 2000 the Cabinet record states that it was agreed that “all or most sink credits” would be tradable internationally and would accrue to those undertaking sink initiatives? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am well aware of the July 2000 “in principle” Cabinet decision to allocate some emission units relating to the 2008-12 period and that in principle some proportion would accrue to those undertaking relevant activities. Of course that is not a decision or a promise to devolve anything free of charge and as the member is well aware in April 2002 the Government decided not to confirm that decision. 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm reports that the only person who has promised foresters carbon credits is Roger Dickie of the Kyoto Forestry Association who did so as far back as the mid-1990s well before Kyoto was even negotiated? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: That does indeed appear to be the case. I understand that that would of course involve a transfer of up to $1.5 billion to those owning forests. I also see that the National Party whose leader has gone from believing climate change is a hoax to saying he always believed it was a problem is now promising to return some of the Government’s held carbon credits to the post-1990 foresters. My question is how much and whether it is the whole $1.5 billion that Roger Dickie wants. 
R Doug Woolerton 
: Is it the Government’s intention to have an internal private carbon trading regime within New Zealand while our international Kyoto responsibilities are handled exclusively by the Government? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Obviously a “cap and trade” mechanism could be what comes out of all the deliberation at the moment. A lot of options are on the table and I take this opportunity to thank parties from New Zealand First to United Future to the Greens who were prepared to enter into constructive discussion about that—something we are not hearing from the hard-core Opposition. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: What did the Government mean when it published the document entitled  
Forest Sinks and the Kyoto Protocol 
 which states on page 10 that Cabinet has agreed that foresters would get a proportion of benefits from forest sinks and the article goes on to quote an example: “Mr Pine plants a 10 hectare woodlot in the winter of 1990. … He will therefore be eligible for sink credits proportional to the carbon stock increase between 2008 and 2012”; if that was not telling foresters to plant trees and get credits what in Buddha’s name did it mean? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It would be a fairly silly forester who took that as a signal to plant trees when it was a scenario in a discussion document that followed an “in principle” decision which had yet to be confirmed and of course was not in the event confirmed. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does she agree with the advice from her Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet that stated: “Establishing landowners as the principal owners of emission units would provide the strongest incentives to protect and enhance sinks and plant new sinks. This would be absent if all emission units were retained by the Government.” and given that that is what her Government is now proposing to do will she accept responsibility for record levels of deforestation? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Advice is simply that. It is not written on tablets of stone and it may or may not be agreed with. As the member is well aware the rate of new planting tracks very closely the rate of return in forestry which sadly in recent years has been rather down. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How can this Prime Minister have the audacity to open the parliamentary year with the promise of New Zealand becoming carbon neutral when her Government’s policy on forestry which has such a huge impact on New Zealand’s carbon balance is driving record levels of deforestation and the Anglican Church describes it as a “horror scenario” the  
Independent 
 newspaper describes it as a “chainsaw massacre” and when Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry officials are now predicting 170000 hectares of deforestation? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: If the member has a magic wand to wave on how to improve forestry prices I would be very pleased to hear about it. Also I would be pleased to see anything that amounted to a policy on these issues from the National Party. But when the leader says it is a hoax to talk about climate change in the middle of 2005 then 2½ years later says he has always believed that it was a problem can we be surprised that National has no policy? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Did she seek advice from US President George Bush at her meeting and lunch on how New Zealand could better constrain emissions noting that United Nations figures show that since she has been Prime Minister and George Bush has been President New Zealand emissions have been growing at 2.5 times the rate of those in the US and does she see an irony in these figures given her Government’s critical comment on the US policies on climate change? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Years of record economic growth under a Labour Government have of course on the old patterns of development and energy supply meant that we have had some Kyoto issues. I am very happy for us to continue collaborating with the United States on climate change. Indeed since the 2003 partnership with the US on climate change was signed more than 30 scientific projects have seen us collaborate on how we reduce emissions get new technologies up and improve energy efficiency.