Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:661;Page:9901] 
12. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does she stand by her reported statement in regard to national standards that “criticism has been based on misinterpretations”? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Yes. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What misrepresentations led to Professor Hattie criticising the standards in February this year because as he said they do not recognise that children need to learn at their own pace that bright children would be neglected that the standards are at best a data-free educated guess about what students should know and that an emphasis on benchmarks may lead to teachers hiding student failure? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: In addition to that Professor Hattie said national standards offer the most wonderful opportunities for refreshing and reinvigorating an already top-of-the-world system. He said of standards that if implemented well they can make a difference but he also said much more tellingly that we cannot defend a system where one in 10 schools are deemed to be failing. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a pretty simple question about misinterpretations and I do not think quoting other things from Professor Hattie addressed or answered that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member makes an interesting challenge because in respect of misinterpretation the Minister added further comments made by Professor Hattie which gave further information about his interpretation of national standards. I do not believe that that was inconsistent with the Standing Orders. I think it was a reasonable answer to the question. 
Louise Upston 
: What reports has she received of members of Parliament indulging in misrepresentations? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I have received two reports on misinterpretations. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not accept that question as being in order at all. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member makes a very good point. The Minister is not responsible for members of Parliament. [ 
Interruption 
] Before I come to the Hon Trevor Mallard I will give the member a chance to ask a supplementary question that is in order. 
Louise Upston 
: What reports has she received of others indulging in misrepresentations? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister can be responsible only for issues to do with education. I have given the member a second chance. 
Louise Upston 
: Sorry; can I have one more go? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Under the “three strikes and one is out” policy this is it. 
Louise Upston 
: What reports has she received about misrepresentations? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Supplementary question Trevor Mallard. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Is she allowed to stay or does she have to go? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I did not mean it in that manner. I meant that I would rule out her chance to ask another supplementary question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What misinterpretation led to Hamilton East School stating that it had reported to parents on the basis of national standards but had not moderated its results with those of other schools? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Mr Speaker the primary question was about criticism of the national standards being based on misinterpretations. From the sentence that the member has just read out I see that as a perfectly responsible report to parents. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It seems that if that is the case though the Minister could answer along those lines. It would seem that the supplementary question is related to the primary question and the Minister was asked about what misinterpretation was involved in that course of action. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I do not see that there was any misrepresentation. In fact the school has been very open with its parents. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That seems to be a perfectly reasonable answer. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: In light of that answer is the Minister stating that moderation is not necessary; if so how can her standards which involve teacher judgment be described as national standards? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I have not stated that moderation is unnecessary. In fact as I have talked around the country I have talked about the moderation that currently happens in primary schools and about the fact that benchmarks from national standards and from existing assessment techniques will also be used for moderation. That statement from that school to parents is not a criticism of national standards. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Is moderation between schools necessary before reports are made to parents under her national standards? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Moderation is currently carried out in primary schools and it will continue. In fact they use it all the time. They will apply the same standardised criteria using their current assessment tools. They will use external references which will now be national standards and they will use nationally standardised criteria which are exemplars that are produced from the national standards. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was about the simplest question I could have asked. It asked whether there was a necessity for moderation between schools. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: To simplify this I invite the member to repeat his question without the loss of a supplementary question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Thank you Mr Speaker. I might need to be given some leniency because I asked the question a while ago. The essence of the question I asked was: do schools have to moderate between schools before they report to parents to full national standards for reporting? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: They may. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: How is it possible to have a national standard if a school does not moderate its results with other schools? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: They will continue to do what primary schools do now which is to provide moderation using as I have explained the various reference points that they use for moderation now. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before I call the member on a point of order I say the member has been asking a series of serious questions and I ask his colleagues to allow the Minister to answer. It was rude to their own colleague who asked the question for them to make so much noise that I could not even hear the Minister’s answer. If the Minister recollects the question I invite her to answer it again because I could not hear the answer. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The answer that I gave to the member who asked the question and who has asked the same question in a number of different ways is that schools will continue to use the moderation that they currently use. It happens in schools now. They use various reference points to moderate and they will continue to do that. But the national standards will now provide a nationally consistent reference point and the exemplars that are developed from that will also provide a second reference point in addition to the reference point used from the existing assessment tools. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am reluctant to push this once more but again we had a very good description of what happens within schools. But the question of whether schools are required to moderate between schools which was the essence of the question—which I think I have now asked three times—was not addressed. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I have said on a number of occasions that schools will use the practices they currently use and that includes working in clusters which is inter-school moderation. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: We will not conduct a debate on the answer by way of a point of order. A point of order was raised and I listened to the Minister in response to it. I think that is a fair conclusion to that exchange. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I seek leave to table the Tapanui School newsletter of 5 February which includes a statement of that school’s position on national standards. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I seek leave to table the Taipa Area School’s newsletter its principal’s welcoming newsletter of 5 March which includes that school’s position on national standards. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before I seek leave for that document to be tabled could I humbly ask the member how many more such documents he may seek leave to table. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Quite a set. I am happy to do them as a group if the Government says yes. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Speaker may in fact not put leave. The member has a choice. I will put leave on this occasion for the Taipa Area School document. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I seek leave to table a bundle of reports from schools from their principals and from their boards of trustees giving those schools’ positions on national standards. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that set of documents. Is there any objection? There is objection.