8. Question No. 8—HousingHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) to the Minister of HousingQuestion No. 8—Housing8. Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) to the Minister of Housing: Talofa lava Mr Speaker. Does he stand by his statement that the review into Kāinga Ora was thorough"?Hon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing): Yes.Hon Kieran McAnulty: How is it thorough when the organisation under review has stated "There was relatively limited engagement with our organisation leading to some review conclusions appearing to be based on analysis informed by anecdotes rather than independently considering the performance of the organisation."?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well that unsurprisingly is Kāinga Ora's perspective. I prefer the findings of the independent review.Hon Kieran McAnulty: How is it thorough—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Just wait for quiet. OK.Hon KIERAN McANULTY: How is it thorough when he in paragraph 56 of the relevant Cabinet paper omitted that there were serious and credible concerns raised in Kāinga Ora's response instead stating "the Board is broadly comfortable with the review recommendations"?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Because unsurprisingly I didn't agree with Kāinga Ora's perspective on the review.Hon Kieran McAnulty: When did he approach Sir Bill English to chair the review into Kāinga Ora?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Sir Bill and I talked soon after the election about whether or not he could help out in reviewing Kāinga Ora. Ultimately that is what happened alongside two other very credible and expert reviewers.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Did he advise Sir Bill English not to involve Kāinga Ora in the review?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: No and they were involved in the review. He met with Kāinga Ora alongside community housing providers a range of people in the social sector developers and builders across a range of organisations in the social sector.Hon Kieran McAnulty: How can he be confident this was a credible report when it ignored serious and credible concerns raised by Kāinga Ora the details of which were omitted in the Cabinet paper and he instructed the review not to involve Kāinga Ora?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well there are a number of factual inaccuracies there. Firstly I didn't ask the reviewers not to involve Kāinga Ora—you should have listened to my last answer. The reviewers did talk to Kāinga Ora. And in relation to the first part of his question the concerns that the member relays as apparently or purportedly credible and serious are not credible and serious. I appreciate that the member wishes to defend the record of Kāinga Ora under the last Government; this Government has a different attitude to that and the public can see for itself the financial disaster that is that organisation. Hon Nicola Willis: Would it be fair to say that Kāinga Ora's perception of itself and its unblemished excellence is somewhat different from the perception that communities have of Kāinga Ora's approach to stakeholder engagement is somewhat different from the approach harassed tenants have of the way Kāinga Ora deals with those matters is somewhat different from the perception that those in the building and construction industry have from Kāinga Ora's gold-plated approach to development and is it in fact the case that the only people defending Kāinga Ora are the Labour Party?SPEAKER: The Minister may answer only one of those questions but not the last one.Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well one of the great tragedies of the last few years is that the social—Hon Carmel Sepuloni: This Government!Hon CHRIS BISHOP: We've been in office for six months; you really want to talk about your six years—good grief! One of the great tragedies of the last few years is that the social licence for social housing which plays a very important role in housing vulnerable New Zealanders has been eroded due to Kāinga Ora. Our Government seeks to rebuild the social licence to house vulnerable people in communities and make sure they have a warm dry home. That's the focus of our Government.SPEAKER: The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Just wait for the House to go quiet.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister as to why should the Māori people and the Māori language suffer the ignominy of a disastrous housing policy and a name given to it by someone else in this Parliament?SPEAKER: Well just—Rt Hon Winston Peters: If you want to make it clear—one more time—SPEAKER: No no. My point was I actually didn't hear what you were saying. Those microphones don't tend to come back this way. Rt Hon Winston Peters: I'm very sorry. Could the Minister advise us as to why the Māori people and dare I say it the esteem of the Māori language have suffered from the ignominy of a disastrous housing policy such as Kāinga Ora which has seen so many people without a home in a country they thought they could get a home in?Hon CHRIS BISHOP: Well sadly the name Kāinga Ora has become synonymous up and down the country with poor housing outcomes and a poorly performing organisation. That is the tragedy and that's my point around the erosion of social licence. This Government is committed to social housing for New Zealanders in a financially sustainable fiscally responsible way and in a way that partners with the community sector and people actually on the ground who need support and who are out there doing the mahi and doing such an important job for New Zealanders."