Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 18 June 2014. Volume:699;Page:18611. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]5.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green)to the Minister of Energy and Resources: Does he stand by all his decisions?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister of Conservation)on behalf of theMinister of Energy and Resources: Yes and particularly the decision to see nearly 300000 more homes insulated improving people’s health reducing energy use and helping make their power bills more affordable.Dr Russel Norman: How can he stand by his decision to open over 3000 square kilometres of the West Coast North Island marine mammal sanctuary to oil exploration a sanctuary that was established to protect the Māui’s dolphin?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Because it is a perfectly logical decision. The area where the Māui’s dolphins reside is between the Kaipara and Kāwhia harbours out to 7 nautical miles. The block offer is nowhere near this. There has not been a single observation of a Māui’s dolphin in the block offer area and furthermore there has not been a single incident involving Māui’s dolphins in the oil and gas industry in Taranaki over the past 44 years despite 23 wells being drilled in the closest proximity to where the Māui’s dolphins live. The proposals to quadruple the protected area for Māui’s dolphins to areas where there is evidence they do not go and to ban all activities like oil and gas would cost Taranaki over 5000 jobs and the New Zealand economy $3 billion a year. It would be extreme Green lunacy.Dr Russel Norman: How can he propose more seismic surveying in a Māui’s dolphin sanctuary against the advice of the world’s largest professional scientific body dedicated to research on marine mammals which has specifically asked his Government to stop such seismic surveying because it is a threat to the very survival of the Māui’s dolphin?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: In fact prior to this Government there were no rules around seismic survey work in such areas. It is this Government through both the exclusive economic zone legislation and then the seismic survey regulations that sets down very clear standards to protect marine mammals. If Parliament were to adopt the position being promoted by Russell Norman you would have no oil or gas industry in New Zealand because marine mammals are throughout our ocean area and that would be an economic disaster for this country.Jami-Lee Ross: What is the Minister’s response to the decision today by the Environmental Protection Authority to decline the application by Trans-Tasman Resources to mine ironsands in the exclusive economic zone south of Hāwera?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: This decision of the Environmental Protection Authority confirms the robustness of the regulatory framework this Government has put in place to achieve our balanced approach of developing New Zealand’s mineral resources but within the parameters of high environmental standards. I remind the members opposite there were no rules in the exclusive economic zone prior to this Government. This proposal would not have even needed a consent if it was not for our law. Members opposite have slagged the Environmental Protection Authority as a joke and as a rubber stamp. They now owe the Environmental Protection Authority an apology.Dr Russel Norman: Is the Minister now saying that the 2000 expert marine mammal scientists are wrong to assert that seismic surveys can harm dolphins’ hearing and drive them into unprotected areas where they are more exposed to fishing nets and hence death; if so what is his evidence that the 2000 marine mammal scientists who have told him not to do this are wrong?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The Minister of Energy and Resources has consulted with the Minister of Conservation and the very best advice in New Zealand in respect of protecting Māui’s dolphins. It shows that over 95 percent of the risk to Māui’s dolphins is in fact from set-netting and this Government has doubled that area of protection. There has not been a single Māui’s dolphin recorded or observed outside the area that this Government has protected. What the member is effectively advocating is that we shut down industries like fishing and oil and gas even in areas where despite hundreds of trips of independent observers there is no sign of any Māui’s dolphin. My challenge to the member is simple: show me the Māui. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is a good example of how disorder is created. If the member would simply rise without interjection and ask his supplementary question I for one would be very grateful.Dr Russel Norman: Does the Minister understand that there is a difference between the risk to Māui’s dolphins from existing production wells and adding new risks to Māui’s dolphins from new seismic surveying and new drilling of exploratory wells which is exactly what he has just approved?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I refer the member to the extensive risk management report on Māui’s dolphins. It said that over 95 percent of the risk to Māui’s dolphins was from set-netting and that is why this Government has doubled the area of protection from set-netting. It said that the risks from the oil and gas industry were small and actually smaller than from passing vessels. That is if you want to take the approach that the oil and gas industry is a risk to Māui’s dolphins an even bigger risk is from having boats that might hit them when they go past. If the member is seriously suggesting that we ban all boats from any movements on the west coast of the North Island I look forward to campaigning and contesting that stupid extreme Green point of view.Dr Russel Norman: Why will the Minister not just be honest and tell the people of New Zealand that he cares more about expanding the oil industry—this is new oil industry—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member would just finish his question. It is a good example again of the member inflaming the situation with his opening remarks. Would he finish the question so we can get on with it.Dr Russel Norman: Well you do not quieten them down Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will finish his question otherwise we will be moving to the next question.Dr Russel Norman: Supplementary question then Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Just finish the question.Dr Russel Norman: Why will he not say that he cares more about expanding the oil industry in New Zealand because that is what it is all about rather than whether or not the world’s most endangered dolphin becomes extinct? He has put expanding the oil industry ahead of protecting—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. The question has been asked and the Minister can answer.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I would love to have an honest debate with the member about this issue because there have been 23 drills for petroleum within the marine mammal sanctuary over the last 40 years without incident. If the member’s position is that there should be no oil and gas he should be honest that that means closing the Pohokura gas field which provides 50 percent of New Zealand’s gas resource. It would mean putting 5000 people out of work. And I point this out: it would result in the coal-fired power station at Huntly having to be turned back on again greenhouse gas emissions going through the roof and that would be both economically and environmentally reckless and irresponsible.Dr Russel Norman: When will the Minister simply tell the truth about this issue—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. I will give the member one opportunity to ask a supplementary question in accordance with the rules otherwise we are moving to the next question.Dr Russel Norman: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In many of the Minister’s answers he has said or implied that I have not told the truth. You have not pulled him up once about that.Mr SPEAKER: The Minister has responded I think reasonably in line with the line of questioning. I invite the member if he wants to ask another supplementary question to do so. [Interruption] He does not wish to? Then we move immediately—Dr Russel Norman: Supplementary question.Mr SPEAKER: Well the member just shook his head. If the member wishes to ask a supplementary question in line with the Standing Orders I will give him the opportunity.Dr Russel Norman: How does opposing the expansion of the oil industry through new oil exploration drilling wells and through new seismic testing equate to the same thing as shutting down the entire existing production oil and gas industry as that Minister keeps implying in his answers today and in his other public statements?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I think there is a logical inconsistency to be saying that about the existing 23 wells that have been drilled as well as the Pohokura gas field that currently operates within the marine mammal sanctuary and saying that for over 40 years there has not been a single incident of any harm toMāui’s dolphins. There has not been a single report. What is more when the scientific evidence is that the primary risk to Māui’s dolphins is set-net fishing it has been absolutely right and rational for this Government to focus its efforts to ensure the survival of the Māui’s dolphins by focusing on those things that actually cause the Māui’s dolphins harm and within the areas where the Māui’s dolphins actually exist.Dr Russel Norman: With regard to the scientific evidence has he read the report from the Scientific Committee of the International Whaling Commission which concluded that the protections he is talking about will not stop the extinction ofMāui’s dolphins and that the “current management situation falls short of that required to reverse Māui’s decline.”?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Yes I have read the International Whaling Commission’s latest recommendation and report. It promotes that the Government increase by fourfold the area of the set-net fishing ban. But I have a simple problem: there has not been a single case of an observation of aMāui’s dolphin in that quadrupled area—not one. There have been over 700 fishing trips and on every one of those fishing trips there has been an independent observer. I am not going to shut down industries whether it be oil or gas or fishing industries in places where there is no evidence that Māui’s dolphins exist.