Court SimonSIMON COURT (ACT): ACT won't be supporting this bill; this bill is rubbish. Let's have a look at the problem the Minister claims to be solving.Well there's a risk apparently that fuel companies will charge excessive prices wholesale prices for fuel even though fuel companies already publish their prices at the terminal—the wholesale prices—for anyone to see. Of course if you're a big fuel user—if you run a fleet of trucks if you run dozens of diggers and bulldozers—you can go to a fuel company like an Exxon Mobil like a Chevron Caltex or a British Petroleum or an Ampol or a Z—who all operate in New Zealand—and you can get a better deal than shown at the terminal where the prices are listed. The Minister doesn't seem to understand that.Now let's assume that the problem definition is just plain wrong and there's no purpose for this bill. So then you'd say Well what other purpose could a Labour Government have when they claim to want to have the power to set wholesale fuel prices because the poor consumer is suffering from excessive fuel prices? Why would a Labour Government want to take that power unto itself?" Maybe Dr Webb could offer a perspective. Maybe it's because a Labour Government is actually hoping to convince consumers that the problem with inflation and the cost of living is not the Labour Government's fault; it's the bad bad fuel companies' fault. But the ACT Party says that's a load of rubbish just like this bill.What has created the problem though potentially with people's concerns about fuel prices? Well of course there was a Russian invasion of Ukraine which pushed up the price of fuel temporarily—that's settled down. What else has caused a problem with the cost of living and fuel prices? Well there was COVID where shipping was disrupted for some time—that's resolved itself. What is the greatest influence on retail fuel prices then; the prices consumers pay at the pump? Well it's actually the Government's own fuel tax the fuel excise duty.Because even though the wholesale price of fuel—say take a litre of regular 91—is about $1 maybe $1.10 and the fuel company's wholesale margin is around 32c on that dollar. The Government takes $1.30 in fuel excise duty—$1.30; four times or more what the profits that the fuel companies are making.So what is the problem here? Well I don't think Kiwis would mind paying a fuel excise duty—a fuel tax on petrol and diesel—if they felt they were getting value for money from that. Because people don't mind paying taxes if that money goes to paying teachers and nurses and police more and providing health services. We don't mind paying taxes for those things.But what we do really dislike paying taxes for is when successive Governments have failed to invest in the roading infrastructure and the road networks and public transport in places like where I live in West Auckland. They've failed to invest including this Government which announced to Auckland Light Rail the first train arriving at a station in Mount Roskill in 2021. The business case already pushing towards $100 million in cost; they haven't even completed the business case let alone lay a single track.Kiwis don't mind paying for things if they feel they're getting value for money. What this bill demonstrates is how cynical this Labour Government is in claiming that they're going to somehow take control of the wholesale fuel prices if the Commerce Commission or the Minister decides that they're unfair. They're going to take control of them and they're going to use a mechanism which gives the Governor-General the power to set a wholesale fuel price through regulation through an Order in Council.Now deeply cynical behaviour but of course to be expected from this Labour Government. But what is the likely outcome from setting a wholesale fuel price; from telling businesses what they are allowed to sell their products for? Well we have lots of examples of this in history where Governments have attempted to set prices because say the price of some commodity has gone too high. What happens then? Well the people who still have to pay to supply the product into the market simply decide not to supply it at the rate that Governments have mandated.Can give you a classic example. We hear a claim often from parties on the left about why we need rent control. Well you only have to look at where Governments set the price of rental accommodation. What happens? You look at a city like New York where the price of rental accommodation is set by the city. What's happened? There's a shortage of rental accommodation the quality of rental accommodation is significantly worse—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): Order! Order! The member will come back to this particular bill. Thank you.SIMON COURT: Madam Speaker—where Governments set prices that causes either a shortage of supply or a reduction in quality because fourth-form students or year 10 students who study economics—or I think it's called business these days—would understand the price-quality triangle. There's either going to be if you reduce the price then there's more supply comes into the market. If the Government sets the price something else has to give: supply or quality. Basic economics but clearly absent from consideration by the Minister of Energy and Resources and this Labour Government.So what would ACT do? What would ACT do? Well how about if we want businesses to be confident to supply goods like fuel into the New Zealand market at good rates at a good wholesale price—that's what this bill is about: it's about bulk purchases of fuel wanting to have access to some clarity about what the pricing regime might be between competing suppliers and being able to make a good decision about where they buy fuel from.It's not about "Hey look you know we rocked up to the terminal at Wiri in South Auckland—by the way there's only one terminal in Auckland—and there's a number of prices on the gate and we're not happy; we think that the company is making too much money. Could the Minister for Energy and Resources or the Commerce Commission look into it and the Governor-General set the price?" That would never happen because businesses who are rocking up to the fuel terminal to buy gas will already have a commercial arrangement with the fuel supplier right?So I mean the whole basis of this bill is rubbish. But what would ACT do? Well firstly we'd stop threatening businesses to strand their assets because they happen to be involved in supplying high-density liquid hydrocarbons—otherwise known as petrol and diesel—to 5 million consumers. We'd stop threatening to strand their assets with poor climate policy and gas transitions and transitions to a low-carbon economy; an emissions reduction plan which threatens to take businesses and private property rights off people.Because why would any business invest in supply distribution and actually delivering a service to customers in a sovereign nation like New Zealand where the Government of that sovereign nation is threatening those very businesses' existence and insisting it will put them out of business like the climate Minister James Shaw did when he threatened that their energy assets and hydrocarbons would be stranded?So what would it do? We'd get rid of that dumb climate policy. We'd scrap the zero carbon Act. There'd be no emissions reduction plans required from Government under ACT because the emissions trading scheme—which is another price that we pay on fuel in addition to fuel excise duties in addition to GST; every consumer pays for their emissions under the emissions trading scheme—we would let the emissions trading scheme set a price on emissions so that none of this crazy ineffective terribly expensive climate policy is necessary.ACT would also repeal this bill because a Government that involves ACT would not allow Government to set the price for any commodities including fuel that are supplied by the private sector. Now Governments might negotiate to procure goods and services—to procure fuel for their own purpose; their own Government department—but they will not be setting the price for businesses and consumers. Thank you Madam Speaker."