2. Immigration Policy—Impact and SettingsANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime MinisterImmigration Policy—Impact and Settings2. ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in his Minister of Immigration given his statement that there are jobs for every single New Zealander who wants them"?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Yes I do have confidence in the Minister. As the Minister went on to say it would be naive to think there are not barriers to employment for some New Zealanders. The Government is working extremely hard to remove those barriers and ensure that every young New Zealander is fit for work.Andrew Little: Why were work visas issued for 6500 labourers in the past year when 15600 unemployed New Zealanders were looking for labouring work?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Precisely—but I am fairly sure it will be because they are in different locations. Of course for the average New Zealand employer they would far rather take someone on locally because it is an easier process to go through by definition. As you see with something like the Christchurch rebuild they need an enormous number of workers over a short period of time and frankly a lot of people were not prepared to move to Christchurch. [Interruption] Mr SPEAKER: Order! From both sides the level of interjection and cross-chatter is disruptive to question time. It will cease.Andrew Little: Can he guarantee that work visas are only being issued to fill genuine skill shortages?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: What I can guarantee is that the Government looks at the issues of where skills are required and over the last 3 years 56 occupations have been taken off the list and only five have been added. The reality is that as I said there are often mismatches between where the demand is for people and where people actually live. So that is primarily the issue. You can see from the fact that there are so many jobs being created and the unemployment rate is falling that broadly it is working but people will not always move location.Andrew Little: Is it not the reality that there are employers who know they can get immigrants to work for lower wages and worse conditions and the Government is allowing them to undercut Kiwi workers?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: That might be the line that the unions that made him the leader want him to say but the truth is that wages are up—wait for it—25 percent in the 8 years that we have been the Government. Real wage growth has been 13 percent since 2008. That is significantly greater than the 9 years under the previous Labour Government when inflation took away pretty much all of the pay rises that the workers got.David Seymour: Is the Prime Minister aware of any instances where immigrants have worked earned money spent it and created demand leading to more job creation; if he is not aware of any such instances how were there so many jobs after the last 170 years of immigration?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I think the member has successfully asked and answered his own question and he has done a better job of both of them than probably I could do.Andrew Little: Does he agree with Treasury and the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment (MBIE) that the immigration system is being used to drive down wages rather than being used to fill genuine skills gaps?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I do not think that is an accurate reflection of the way both Treasury and MBIE view migration. I think they have made the case that we need to constantly be looking at who is coming in and why and whether it is possible to get New Zealand workers—and of course that is something that the Government is doing. And through the Business Growth Agenda we have had a significant programme of big employers training people. We have got more people in apprenticeships. There is a huge amount of work going on. But the reality is that some work is part-time. This is not a new thing: it was under the previous Labour Government that the Recognised Seasonal Employee scheme was introduced to New Zealand for the very reason of supporting our agricultural and horticultural sectors and when that was happening it was very successful.Hon David Cunliffe: How many millions from Talley's?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well there is one person who has lost his job—and that is David Cunliffe because he led the Labour Party to its worst result in the history of the party.Tim Macindoe: What reports has the Prime Minister seen supporting the contribution that migrants make to New Zealand?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I have seen one report that started by stating: "I welcome all people who want to make a future for themselves and their families to be part of our beautiful country." I could not agree more with that. I saw another report that said: "I would never want for anyone in this country to feel like they are somehow being targeted."—that was of course from Andrew Little just a day after he called for a ban on Chinese and Indian chefs.Andrew Little: I seek leave to table a Treasury paper called Immigration Work Programme Opportunities for Policy Changes which states that increasing flows of younger and lower-skilled migrants may be contributing to a lack of employment opportunities for local workers. I seek leave also to table an MBIE report called Improving the Long-term Contribution of Immigration to the Labour Market which states that filling labour shortages through migration can result in wage suppression. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am familiar now with the two documents. I just need to check whether they are easily available to members on a website.Andrew Little: I only received them in hard copy; I could not find them by any other means. Mr SPEAKER: I will take the member's word for it and put the leave. Leave is sought to table a Treasury paper and an MBIE document. Is there any objection? There is objection. Supplementary question Rt Hon—[Interruption] Order! No I am sorry; Mr Peters will have to resume his seat. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Just recently you have been generous in putting leave having previously made it very clear that if something is publicly available then leave to table in the House is inappropriate. The problem with that of course is that when we know that something is freely available and we deny the leave then the political win obviously goes to the person trying to table something that is already out there. I suspect Mr Little has the information he has got because one of his staff members downloaded it for him. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Andrew Little: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr SPEAKER: Well I will hear from Andrew Little. Andrew Little: There has got to be some kind of equivalence here. When I put a question about this issue the catcalls from Mr Brownlee and Mr Joyce were that the statements which are proven in these documents were never made and did not exist. It cannot be the case that they are able to assert even by way of interjection in this House that something that a Government paper says is true is not true according to them and then that they would seek to prevent me from tabling a paper that proves the opposite of what they are asserting. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will address both points together. The purpose of tabling a document is to better inform members of the House. It is not the opportunity to make a political point. I am unaware of whether those two documents are easily available on the website I therefore asked the member who is seeking leave to table them and on this occasion he was not able to give a categoric answer. My decision then is whether to put the leave. At the end of the day once I put that leave any member has any right to object and that is what happened on this occasion. Hon Michael Woodhouse: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I draw your attention to Speaker's ruling 163/2 which is around the tabling of documents and the addition of descriptions which you have previously ruled out of order but we have seen a trend of increasing commentary about what the document says which in recent times has paraphrased—in many members' views incorrectly—what the document intends to say. I would just draw your attention to that Speaker's ruling. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Again that is an easy matter to resolve. If a document is deliberately incorrectly described then a member risks a very serious allegation being raised by another member of misleading the House. On that occasion I allowed a fairly fulsome description of the document because of the answers that had been given by the Minister and also the interjections that had occurred. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Does he believe that immigration controls under his Government are tighter than under the previous Labour Government?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Interestingly enough actually there has been a bit of talk about this 210000 work visa number. I think my office went away and had a look at the number back in 2008 and the number was broadly about the same give or take a little bit on working holiday programmes—some fluctuation in the categories but the numbers are broadly the same. Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not talk about one specific area; I said immigration controls—are they tighter under his Government than the previous Labour Government? I am waiting for that answer—tighter or not?Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am going to allow that question to be repeated simply because I could not hear the answer because of the level of interjection coming from my left. I have asked now for cooperation on I think three occasions. If I do not get it I am going to be asking a member to leave. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Thank you Mr Speaker. To the Prime Minister: does he believe that immigration controls under his Government are tighter than under the previous Labour Government?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I think they are broadly about the same. I think the big difference really in migration flows in this period of time has been that instead of 35000 Kiwis leaving every year to go to Australia New Zealanders have come home and stayed here because under a National-led Government they can see a brighter future they are ambitious for New Zealand they have got a 25 percent wage increase and they are doing pretty well. I think it is only natural that they would come back and want to be part of it.Rt Hon Winston Peters: If it is as he says "Pepsi or Coke" can he confirm that over the last two parliaments New Zealand First has asked more questions on immigration than all the other political parties put together?Mr SPEAKER: Order! No there is no prime ministerial responsibility for that. Hon Gerry Brownlee: One-dimension party.Andrew Little: You will want to hear this Gerry. Why is he issuing ever more low-skill work visas rather than focusing on getting Kiwis into work?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: There are a great many more Kiwis in work. For a start over the last 3 years alone 200000 jobs have been created and we forecast that there will be another 170000 over the next 3 or 4 years. There are a considerable number of Kiwis going through a variety of different programmes as I mentioned earlier. The unemployment rate under this Government is now falling after the global financial crisis. So there is no question that there are Kiwis going into work. What there is is a genuine mismatch in some parts of the country to the other and actually it would be great if some people where there are high levels of unemployment or where there are not so many opportunities would move to parts of the country where there are—but it is not as easy always for them to do that.Andrew Little: Why when the ANZ Harcourts the Reserve Bank Treasury and now the Auckland Chamber of Commerce are all questioning his Government's immigration settings is he so out of touch that he will not even admit there is a problem?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: What I have said is that migration is an important part of a growing economy and it is actually a sign of success that people want to come to New Zealand either on working holiday programmes or because they are coming here to fill the skilled migrant demand. The Government constantly looks at—Andrew Little: Putting Kiwis out of work and driving down the wages.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well wages are going up faster than inflation. I know it does not suit the member's argument and I know the unions put him in his job but he is going to have to go back and tell them: "Mate the facts don't add up."—the Little rhetoric that got you your job."