Sepuloni Carmel: Standing Orders—Suspension 
Sepuloni Carmel: Standing Orders—Suspension 
[Volume:673;Page:19661] 
CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour) 
: 
 I rise to speak on the Government motion No. 5 (Courts and Criminal Matters Bill) following on from my colleague Carol Beaumont. I think she did a good job of going into the technical aspects of the bill so I will speak to it more broadly. Labour supports the Courts and Criminal Matters Bill and as many other members who have stood tonight have said it results from work that was undertaken while Labour was in Government so it is good to see it finally moving along that path to being put through. We continue to wonder why it has taken so long. That is one of our concerns. Why has it taken so long for this bill to pass? It was practically ready when Labour left Government. Given that National often stresses that it is tough on crime it is hard to understand why it would not fast track this legislation. It had its second reading on 16 November 2010. The rhetoric we often hear about the need to be seen to be tough on crime is really reduced to nothing when we look at the fact that this has taken so long to come through. 
It is not the only legislation that this is the case for. I only need to look at the Order Paper to see a very very important bill that was put up by Labour. It was widely consulted on within the sector concerned. It is the Domestic Violence Reform Bill. That bill still continues to languish at the bottom of the Order Paper. In fact it is second to last. It is at No. 58 so it is of concern that we during this term almost definitely will not get an opportunity to consider that very very important legislation. I guess that is just another example where the rhetoric does not really fit with the action in respect of being tough on crime. As I say another bill the Domestic Violence Reform Bill is not being considered. The Minister of Justice does not seem to take it seriously. Unfortunately he does not seem to understand that domestic violence is a very important issue that should be taken seriously through legislation and through this process.  
The Government continues to take a piecemeal approach to reforms in the justice sector with no coherent plan or vision to strengthen the system or provide improved services to the public. It is of concern that it is a piecemeal approach. There is something happening over here and something happening over there but there is no consistency. There is no overall plan from this Government in regards to justice. Unfortunately that lack of a plan the National Government has demonstrated extends to other areas including the economy moving New Zealand forward jobs and opportunities for training. There is a lack of a plan in respect of justice and what we would hope to see. It is a piecemeal approach to reforms in the justice sector and is just symptomatic of a lack of a plan in general by the National Government.  
This bill omits some proposals developed by Labour. For instance we wanted to create a single agency to have responsibility for fines. Currently there are 80-plus issuing authorities and this impedes the collection of fines. National has not adopted this sensible policy. It is a sensible policy. We really struggle to understand why the Government would not want to take that on board. There are 80-plus authorities involved in the collection of fines. It is hardly a tight ship or the smartest way for this to be dealt with. Labour recognised that and proposed that we create a single agency yet that proposal has been ignored. It does not seem to make sense at all to ignore that. It is unfortunate because one would think that things would be much more consistent and there would be a much smoother running of things if collection was condensed into one agency rather than spread over 80 different authorities.  
Ministry of Justice research shows that when people cross a certain threshold of money owed—around $2000 for young people—they become unable and unwilling to even attempt to pay off their fines. The research for that goes back some 10 years. I was looking at a couple of reports. One of them I have here is from 2005. The report is called 
 Young People and Infringement Fines: A Qualitative Study 
. It was prepared for the Ministry of Justice by Litmus Ltd back in October 2005. One of the quotes from that really does support what I have just said about young people building up fines and then all of a sudden it just becomes too difficult to pay any of them. A quote from one young person was “When I had a few fines I tried really hard to pay them off. Once they get out of control they mount up and up and you can’t see any way of clearing them so you give up.” That was a young person who had numerous infringement fines. It is a concern that when people cross a certain threshold of money owed—around $2000 for young people—they become unable and unwilling to even attempt to pay off their fines. Through the fines register established by this bill lending companies in the wider community will be made aware of people who owe money which will pressure people to pay fines they might otherwise be able to avoid. I guess we need to take into consideration that we are in tough times at the moment. If there was ever a time when fines were less of a priority it would be at this point in time when people are struggling to pay for the bare necessities like putting food on the table.  
Having observed the justice and law and order policies that have been brought in over the last 2½ years under the National Government I must say I have noticed that there has been an increase in the punitive measures particularly with things like fines. On paper it looks good to the public. Often they think “Yes. Fine them more. Fine them more.” but the reality is whether that is really worthwhile when so often it is so difficult to collect the fines. Do fines really make a difference when we see from young people—like the person I have just quoted—that once the fines get to a certain point they do not even attempt to pay them because it all becomes too difficult. We believe that there needs to be a much more concerted attempt to collect the fines but I personally am sceptical about some of the increases that have been put on fines and some of the extensions that have been made by the National Government. I am concerned that on paper the measures look harsh but in reality very little is happening there.  
It is good to see in the commentary on the bill that it is recognised that this bill—the development of which commenced under the previous Government—represents the most comprehensive legislative improvements for the recovery of unpaid fines reparation and civil debt in 12 years. The previous Labour Government and the Ministers of that time need to be commended for the work they put into this bill. My colleagues and I are of course happy to see that this is actually moving along now rather than languishing on the Order Paper as it was before although we are disappointed that certain things have been left out particularly the omission of the one single agency that we had recommended be established to be responsible for fines collection which has now been excluded. We are disappointed that that has happened but we are happy that this is finally getting somewhere. Thank you very much.