Ryall Tony: Courts and Criminal Matters Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Ryall Tony: Courts and Criminal Matters Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:626;Page:21701] 
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay Of Plenty) 
: 
 Part 3 of the Courts and Criminal Matters Bill goes to the heart of one of the important mechanical ways in which this bill seeks to operate. It provides to court registrars the power to issue arrest warrants to debtors with or without a judge being present in the courthouse. Currently the law allows registrars to issue those warrants of arrest only if the judge is absent but now it will provide that the rest of those matters will be dealt with by registrars even if a judge is present in the courthouse. 
That is an important provision for this bill because once there are warrants of arrest out for people and they either have fines in excess of $5000 or outstanding reparation sentences or payments they can then be subject to this regime. Right now there are a very limited number of people who owe more than $5000 and who are subject to an arrest warrant—in fact the number is 500 according to advice from the Ministry of Justice. But let us just look at those people who do owe more than $5000 in fines. According to information I received from the Minister in the middle of last year—which is older information—about 25000 people owe more than $5000. Those 25000 people according to my calculations owe $220 million in total. We have people who owe sums of $800000 $300000 $139000—huge amounts of money are owed in fines by people who owe over $5000. 
But of that 25000 who owe a total of $220 million only 500 are subject to a warrant of arrest and they are the group this legislation hopes to target. The Government’s own advisers said that when this bill was first introduced it would have caught 35 of those people each year. Now it will catch 117 of them each year but members must wonder when $220 million was outstanding from that group of people this time last year how much money will be caught with this legislation. I tell them it is only $1.5 million. The legislation really does not go far enough. That percentage is 0.25 of 1 percent of the debt that is outstanding. 
Brian Connell 
: Say that again. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: One-quarter of 1 percent of the debt outstanding will be caught by this legislation. Why are we even bothering with this provision to extend the ability of registrars to issue warrants of arrest? I bet members that this Minister cannot even tell us how many extra people the provision will help catch. 
Hon Rick Barker 
: Lots. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: OK we have that on the record. It will catch lots more than the 117? 
Hon Rick Barker 
: Yes. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: How many? 
Hon Rick Barker 
: I haven’t got the precise figure but it will be much more effective— 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I ask for a precise figure. 
Hon Rick Barker 
: I want to say to the member that the sooner we get this legislation passed the sooner we can start implementing it. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: That is right. We should get moving. We say to the Government that if it is serious about cracking down on fines defaulters its members should vote for the amendments that I have put forward because those amendments will provide for a number of things. They will provide for us to get all the information the various departments have. They will provide for us not to allow the Labour Government to lift the threshold whereby people can qualify— 
Hon Rick Barker 
: Oh! 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I heard Mr Tamihere say that some people have the ability to just change one word here or one word there in order to change the whole meaning of a clause and that is why I am moving that amendment. 
Frankly I do not think that what is being proposed in this bill goes anywhere near far enough and I would like to hear from this Minister an explanation of the numbers that will be involved and of what the benefit of doing this actually is. What is the actual benefit of doing this when 117 people will be caught by this legislation? There has to be an arrest warrant before people can be caught. 
Hon Rick Barker 
: The provision gives the registrar more powers to issue arrest warrants. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: So how many more will be issued? He does not know and that is the whole point of what we have been saying—the Minister does not know. When the Minister first brought this bill to the House I bet he did not even know that it would affect only 35 people. Did the Minister know that it would affect only 35 people? Did he ask? It is a pretty basic question. Obviously not! He did not ask whether 35 people would be affected or even what number would be affected.