Norman Russel: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 12 March 2015. Volume:703;Page:2208. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister for Climate Change Issues: Is the Government’s objective to increase New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions or is the Government’s objective to decrease New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions?Hon TIM GROSER (Minister for Climate Change Issues): Decrease.Dr Russel Norman: In light of that reassuring answer that the objective is to decrease does he think he has been a successful climate change Minister given that New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions have increased by 20 percent since this Government was elected in 2008?Hon TIM GROSER: The spectre of the tall-poppy syndrome hangs menacingly above my head. I will leave it to others to make a judgment on that.Dr Russel Norman: Does he think he has been a successful climate change Minister given that according to United Nations figures New Zealand’s carbon intensity has increased by 14 percent since his Government was elected?Hon TIM GROSER: Leaving the first part of the question aside for the same reason let me just say that that figure is completely misunderstood. The reality is that the Government measures emissions intensity in terms of percentage of emissions per unit of real GDP. On that basis—Hon Ruth Dyson: The rest of the world is wrong; only Tim Groser is right.Hon TIM GROSER: No it has been misquoted. On that basis emissions intensity in New Zealand has decreased by 30 percent between 1990 and 2012—the exact figure is 29.2 percent.Dr Russel Norman: I seek leave to table a report from the Parliamentary Library showing emissions intensity has increased by 14 percent.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that particular information. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Dr Russel Norman: I seek leave to table a document from the library showing that New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions have increased 20 percent since 2008.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that particular information. Is there any objection? There is objection.Dr Russel Norman: Does he believe he has been successful as a climate change Minister given that the Ministry for the Environment is projecting a further 48 percent increase in New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions in the next decade?Hon TIM GROSER: The Government is on track not only to meet its 2008-12 commitment to reduce net emissions to 1990 levels but it is absolutely on track to achieve its objective of reducing emissions further to a minimum of minus 5 percent. Those are the commitments that we have taken; those are the commitments that we will meet.Dr Russel Norman: Is the Government on track to meet its publicly announced target of decreasing emissions by 50 percent by 2050 in light of the Government’s own projections that show emissions will increase by 50 percent in one decade?Hon TIM GROSER: I am still confident that can be achieved for a number of reasons: No. 1 because our forestry cycle will swing sharply back in the other direction to being a sink for carbon emissions after 2030. Secondly I think this country has got every reason to be optimistic that we will find long-term solutions for 70 percent of our gross emissions in the longer term because approximately 50 percent are agriculture—48.5 percent is the exact figure. There is major scientific research coming through that is extremely promising that should be available on the commercial market in 5 to 10 years. And this country if you had been listening to the statements Mr Bridges has been making is actually ideally placed to make major reductions in transport emissions which are 20 percent of New Zealand emissions as the cost of hybrids and electric vehiclescontinues to reduce given the massive share of renewable electricity in our country. So if he is—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is a very long answer.Dr Russel Norman: This graph is relevant to my question Mr Speaker. Is he proud of the fact—[Interruption] Yes that is right; the National Party will cheer but this shows New Zealand’s emissions intensity.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I know there may be some confusion about what the particular graph is showing but the member still deserves the opportunity to ask his question.Hon Steven Joyce: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This may help the House. I do not think you are allowed to table political polls in the House.Mr SPEAKER: That is not a legitimate point of order. Would the member now get on with his question.Dr Russel Norman: Is the Minister proud of the fact that the blue line in this graph is the line of New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions going up by 48 percent—is he proud of the fact that New Zealand’s emissions are going to go up by 48 percent—and that the blue line also happens to be the colour of the governing party and is he surprised by that?Hon TIM GROSER: Putting aside exactly what that graph represents and its authenticity the answer is that I am very proud to be part of a Government that is going to deliver on the two international commitments we have to reduce our net emissions.Dr Russel Norman: Is it not true that when he is called the Minister for climate change he really is the Minister for climate change and a very successful Minister at that?Hon TIM GROSER: Until the Prime Minister suggests otherwise I think I do consider myself the Minister responsible for climate change issues.Hon Hekia Parata: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is a wharenui and I think it is totally inappropriate to have props like that thrown around on the floor of our House.Mr SPEAKER: It is a very large prop. The member might have found it easier to handle if it had been somewhat smaller but he is allowed a visual aid if it assists—Hon Member: It’s on the floor.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I do note it fell on the floor—[Interruption] Order! I do not think that is satisfactory. I was going to allow the member to finish his line of questioning and then certainly if he was not moving to pick it up I would be asking him to do so.Dr Russel Norman: Given the facts that I have presented showing rapidly increasing greenhouse emissions does he want to change his answer to the primary question which is that the Government’s objective is actually to increase New Zealand’s net greenhouse gas emissions and it is doing a jolly good job of it?Hon TIM GROSER: No.Dr Russel Norman: Will the Minister rise to what he himself has called the great challenge of our age—climate change—and match the recently announced European climate target of a 40 percent emissions reduction or will he continue to keep New Zealand on track for a 48 percent increase in emissions in the next decade?Hon TIM GROSER: We will meet our existing international contributions and we will be consulting the New Zealand public shortly on what should be the next level. In the process of doing so we will be pointing out that for a particular set of reasons that will be clear when members read the discussion document there is no low-hanging fruit in New Zealand. If we look at Germany for example the 25 percent reduction in gross emissions was achieved almost exclusively prior to the introduction of the European emissions trading scheme by closing down lignite coal stations in eastern Germany. These soft options do not exist for New Zealand.