Grigg Nicola; Doocey Matt; van de Molen Tim; McAnulty KieranNICOLA GRIGG (National—Selwyn): Thank you Madam Chair. There is obviously still a lot to cover. I did mention previously to the Minister that I'd like to have a quick trot through clauses 18 and 19 which relate to the content and the obligation to publish funding and pricing plans. Now appreciating that the charging principles are specified in new section 31 in clause 22 again for listeners—for those at home—can the Minister please outline the philosophy I suppose around the setting of the charging principles; again the philosophy around how affordable or otherwise these principles intend to be; and what guarantees can the Minister give that this is actually an improvement on the existing establishment that is already occurring under the rule of territorial authorities? MATT DOOCEY (National—Waimakariri): Thank you very much Madam Chair. Just to carry on from my learned colleague Nicola Grigg around the section where we're looking at charging I wanted to drill in to new section 319 in clause 22: Rating information needed by water services entity". I think it would be helpful for the committee if the Minister could outline what legislation would enable I suppose the passing on of that information that is currently held by councils what permission each ratepayer would need to give for that information to be passed on to the new water entity for charging and is there an ability for a ratepayer to refuse permission for that information to be passed on and what would happen if a ratepayer decided to pursue that course of action? TIM VAN DE MOLEN (National—Waikato): Thank you Madam Chair. Look I just wanted to pick up on one of the new parts—new section 200 in clause 22 actually—with regard to the power to carry out work in relation to water services on over or under land. This part I think warrants further exploration because we are treading new ground here and proposing a significant change for our communities. That unsurprisingly leads to an increased level of concern within those communities and whist relationships with councils can sometimes be fraught or challenging generally people have a reasonable understanding of what that looks like how they work with them and how they interact and what sorts of things they can expect when they are carrying out those interactions if necessary. Under this new proposal what I'm interested to know is around that new section 200 in regard to carrying out the work what power there is for the landowners to be able to negotiate around first of all the need for that work and the type of work and the complexity of it if it's being imposed on their property and then what sort of timing may occur around that. I think the timing part is really interesting. I'm interested to understand where the level of agreement would sit and if there is any influence that the landowner can have based on in my area the Waikato for example which is a strong farming area. There are a lot of seasonal activities undertaken at certain times of the year that could be unduly influenced if work were to be carried out during one of those periods. I'm interested to understand what ability there is for that landowner to push back and to say that on one hand they don't want the work or secondly if the work is happening—which may have occurred under new section 204 in clause 22 where potentially a court order has been obtained to force the work to be able to be carried out—then what ability they have subsequent to that decision being made to then be able to influence the timing of it so as to minimise the impact on their farming business or whatever their business may be. But in the instance I'm specifically looking at it is more around the rural impact from the timing of the seasonality of some of those activities and maybe it's planting crops or maybe it's going through calving or lambing where there could be particularly disruptive periods if work was undertaken during one of those times. So I really want to understand what clarity the Minister can give that there will be a level of influence available to these landowners given that we're entering into quite a new type of relationship with a new entity. There's a lot of uncertainty and unsurprisingly they'll be wanting to know where they might sit and if they need to start planning for the risk of any additional work or the timing and the impositions that may have on their businesses and what considerations they may need to give to that. So I'd appreciate some insight thank you. Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government): Thank you Madam Chair. In regard to the question from Nicola Grigg the charging principles are based on similar regimes in the OECD and these provisions link through to the Water Services Economic Efficiency and Consumer Protection Bill. They enable the Commerce Commission to issue determinations on the charging principles. In response to Mr Doocey's question rating information needs to be passed on to ensure that entities can charge—for example stormwater charging. This will also enable charges to be levied on the basis of property values as they are currently by councils. In response to Mr van de Molen of course new section 200 in clause 22 actually enables the landowner to specify reasonable conditions for the entities who want to do works on their private land. An objections process can also occur. These are modernised arrangements that already exist for other utility providers and so are unlikely to cause disruption or a change in practice."