Brown Peter: Climate Change Response Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Brown Peter: Climate Change Response Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:634;Page:6124] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I always listen intently to the member who has just resumed his seat because he normally makes some very good comments. But he laboured on talking about mixed messages and unclear messages for quite some time so I want to ask the House how this is for a mixed message taken from the commentary on the bill. The heading is “Opposition members view (New Zealand First New Zealand National and ACT New Zealand)” and the paragraph states: “Opposition members oppose this bill on the grounds that New Zealand should not be implementing the Kyoto Protocol ahead of our major trading partners.” 
Eric Roy 
: That’s right—absolutely right. We haven’t shifted from that. 
PETER BROWN 
: Well I thought that the member— 
Eric Roy 
: No we want to give leadership; we want to get the solution. 
PETER BROWN 
: I do not want to get into a debate with the member but I could have sworn he said that he was going to support the bill when here it says he is not. New Zealand First will oppose this bill for two principal reasons. The first reason is that we do not believe we should be ahead of our trading partners in terms of the Kyoto Protocol. Secondly—and we have fuelled this quite a lot this evening—there are people in New Zealand who are worried witless about climate change. I have to say that that is unnecessarily so. 
When it comes to greenhouse gas emissions in this country 50 percent comes from farming. The honourable member who has just spoken did not refer to that at all and he is a farmer. The other 50 percent comes largely from energy plants and whatever. But on a global scale New Zealand greenhouse gases do not register. They are a fraction of a percent. If we want to address the issue of climate change—and I am talking “we” now as internationally—then we have to target the big guys: the Americans the Chinese the Indians the Brits and the Europeans. On a per capita basis when it comes to energy and carbon dioxide our emissions are very moderate. When we take our population of only 4 million people that is only a very modest amount of greenhouse gases. 
But if we look at China for example on a per capita basis we see a very low emission per person but 100 times more greenhouse gases are produced than by New Zealand. Australia produces double on a per capita basis to that of this country. In total it is ten times more than this country but that is from a population only five times greater than ours. If we look at the USA we see it produces double in terms of greenhouse gases on a per capita basis but it emits 152 times the greenhouse gas emissions of this country. Britain is about the same on a per capita basis but it produces 15 times the amount New Zealand emits. And so it goes on and some of those countries generate power from nuclear plants. 
Coal gets a lot of blame for the production of greenhouse gases. Coal in this country produces about 8 percent of our electricity. In China coal produces 78 percent. In Australia the figure is 79 percent and in America it is 50 percent. An article in the  
Dominion Post 
 sometime last week reported that the Americans are building coal-fired power stations like nothing on earth. By the year 2030 57 percent of their power will be generated by coal-fired power stations. 
The solution to the problem of greenhouse gases when it comes to coal is not banning coal-fired power stations because obviously countries are not doing that. China is building them. India is building them. Australia is building them. The solution is exactly what John Howard said only 2 days ago in a radio interview: “A major part of the Government’s policy on climate change is to accelerate the development of new technologies which reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the use of fossil fuels.” That will be the solution to greenhouse gas emissions particularly from coal. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: What if it doesn’t work? 
PETER BROWN 
: The member says: “What if it doesn’t work?”. These countries are pouring billions of dollars into it. Australia is pouring in millions of dollars and the Yanks the Americans are pouring in billions of dollars. For the member’s information Genesis Energy and Solid Energy New Zealand Ltd are spending significant sums of money in Australia on research there to address the problems of coal. I am told that the theory works now but that the cost of implementing has to be brought down. I say to the honourable member that I tend to believe that the scientists the people who are working on the issue full time day in day out will have it addressed in the foreseeable future. 
We must not lose sight of the fact that the average New Zealander is exceedingly concerned about climate change and New Zealand First is concerned about climate change. But let me say this and let me say it as clearly as I possibly can: there is nothing in this country that we can do as average citizens that will address the problem in any meaningful way at all. The problem lies elsewhere. We can do whatever anybody thinks we ought to do to address the problem—we can plant trees and goodness knows what—but it will not do anything meaningfully on a worldwide basis. This is a worldwide problem. 
I say to the honourable member who is sitting close by me that scientists tell me that trees absorb carbon dioxide. They also tell me that pasture with a predetermined level of topsoil will also do that. So we can absorb almost as much if not as much carbon dioxide by putting land into pasture. I am not a scientist but I believe what scientists tell me and I know that this information comes from dedicated people who are spending their lives addressing the problem. 
New Zealand First opposes this bill. We oppose it not because we are anti-environment or anti-climate change but because we want to keep the debate alive. We know that many many New Zealanders are being scared witless by the rhetoric in this House. They are hearing statements—and we have heard a few of them this afternoon and this evening—that make them feel guilty about putting on their lights let alone their one-bar electric heaters. 
This is a problem that will be solved in time but it will be solved in time by technology—not by New Zealanders planting trees. We should plant trees to address erosion problems so let us do that. But we should not fool ourselves that by planting thousands of trees we will solve the world’s climate change problem. If the member thinks that then she might as well think that the pig that is flying around here is real. New Zealand First— 
Gordon Copeland 
: It’s a world problem. 
PETER BROWN 
: That is exactly what I have just been saying—. 
Gordon Copeland 
: We’re only a tiny little planet. 
PETER BROWN 
: We are a tiny little player—and I appreciate the echo coming from behind—on the world scene and we cannot do anything to address the problem in a meaningful way. All we are doing to a very large extent is scaring witless the average New Zealander who is concerned about this issue. We in New Zealand First say that we should get this matter into perspective. If we want to address climate change on a global basis then to a very large extent it will come down to the Americans. It will come down to the Brits the Europeans the Chinese the Indians and the Australians. New Zealand’s attempt to help the problem by growing trees and what have you will have negligible if any effect whatsoever on climate change. New Zealand First will be opposing this bill.