Chauvel Charles: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Chauvel Charles: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 28 June 2012. Volume:681;Page:3499. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
6. 
CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Does she stand by her statement about the proposal to operate Wiri prison privately that “The contract will have strong performance incentives ensuring we receive a superior service compared to publicly run prisons or we pay a lower price”? 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS (Acting Minister of Corrections) 
: Yes. I am advised that officials from the Department of Corrections are currently negotiating with Secure Future to finalise contract terms. Fundamental to the contract will be the need for Secure Future to achieve lower recidivism rates than the average for publicly run prisons. It will also face financial penalties if it fails to meet short-term rehabilitation and reintegration measures including prisoner health and employment targets and custodial standards. 
Charles Chauvel 
: Has she done any cost-benefit analysis as to what the future costs of a lower price would be in the event that the prison does not perform on those grounds and actually sees increased reconviction and recidivism rates as has been the case in Serco-operated sites overseas? 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS 
: The penalty payments for failure to meet those targets are one aspect of the calculation that has been done. I do not have any more-specific figures in front of me. 
Le’aufa’amulia Asenati Lole-Taylor 
: Talofa lava. How are the public to have confidence in private prison service providers given that Mt Eden Corrections Facility operator Serco wrongfully released two potentially dangerous criminals into the community in the year to February 2012? 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS 
: I believe that the public can have confidence in the ability of private providers. It is interesting to note that in the last financial year there were two prison escapes; in this financial year there have been 10 of which only two have been from private providers and the balance have been from public prisons. It is also interesting to note that in the last year of the Labour Government there were 23 escapes from publicly run prisons. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I have called Charles Chauvel. [ 
Interruption 
] I apologise to the member. I ask both sides please—it is mainly National and Labour that are making all the noise—to come to order so we can hear Charles Chauvel’s supplementary question. 
Charles Chauvel 
: Why is the Wiri Prison business case on which the contract is now being negotiated based on a requirement for 2065 new prison beds by 2020 for a forecast prison population of 10306 when the latest 2020 prison population forecast is for only 8165—that is 2141 fewer beds than the business case calls for? 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS 
: I do not have that level of detail in respect of that supplementary question. 
Charles Chauvel 
: Since the Wiri Prison will add 900 beds to a system that is already thousands of beds in surplus does the Government still plan to lock New Zealand into a 30-year $900 million contract to build and operate a private prison with the inevitable result that thousands more beds in the public system will have to be closed? 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS 
: It is important to the Government to have prisons where they are needed. There is a lack of prison capacity in the northern part of the North Island. In fact there are 1000 prisoners from the Auckland region who are housed in prisons outside of the Auckland region. There seems little point in maintaining prisons that are in dire need of closure because of their age and level of decrepitude in places like New Plymouth and Mount Crawford when the need for capacity is in Auckland. 
Charles Chauvel 
: What basis other than an ideological belief in the superiority of the private sector does the Government have for choosing Serco to run the Wiri Prison given that it has already failed to meet 40 percent of its existing targets and is virtually certain to face fines payable to the Crown of $400000 in respect of failures in running its existing site? 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS 
: One of the benefits of having private providers of custodial facilities is the ability to have penalty payments for not meeting those targets that are not available within the public system. The fact is that the taxpayers of New Zealand and those people within the prison system are the customers of private providers and this Government is holding them to account very well. 
Charles Chauvel 
: I seek leave to table the detailed stage two business case from the Department of Corrections for the procurement of a new men’s prison at Wiri through a public-private partnership. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.