Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:625;Page:19884] 
12.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay Of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: How many sworn officers—full-time equivalents—were there in Counties-Manukau Police District on 30 June 2004 and how many are there today? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 I am advised that in July 2004 there was a restructuring of police operations across the Auckland region that reclassified police from three districts to three districts plus one support group without affecting the number of police on the ground. Prior to the restructuring on 30 June 2004 there were 795 sworn police officers designated as Counties-Manukau staff. Under the new structure some of those police were re-designated as Auckland metropolitan crime and operations service group staff even though they continue to sit at the same desk and do the same jobs— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Just tell us the number. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I simply interjected that the member asked a very simple question—how many officers were there then and how many are there now? We got a whole lot of garbage that the Minister mumbles into the microphone when all that members want to hear is the answer to the question. 
Hon Mark Burton 
: I for one am interested in the facts of the matter. The member may not be but I would like to hear the answer. If members opposite are not interested in the facts that is revealing to members of the House. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Let us proceed. I do not need any more help with this. Would the Minister proceed with his answer. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Under the new structure 633 sworn staff are currently designated Counties-Manukau district staff. Police coverage in the district has not been affected by the new structure. In fact police numbers across the Auckland region are up. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I think in the interchange that followed the Minister’s statement and the interjection by the Hon Nick Smith the Minister gave us the pre-restructuring figure of 795. That was correct according to official documents. He did not give us the number after the restructuring that appears in nine official documents that I have on my desk which is 683. Did he read that out? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Yes the Minister gave the figure at the end of his answer. It would so help if people listened. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: No he gave the figure 633 which is the figure at the moment. He did not give the figure that followed the restructuring in June. He gave the pre-restructuring figure—and I accept what he is saying—but he did not give the post-restructuring figure. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am trying to work out exactly what the point of order is. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: He was not actually asking a question. To get down to that level of detail in a point of order is irrelevant to the question. The Minister gave an answer that completely answered the question asked. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think that is correct. The Minister did address the question. It may not have been the answer that the member wanted but there is a supplementary question he could ask. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: He gave an explanation about the change of restructuring but he never gave the figures. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Ask a supplementary question please. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: What is the Minister’s explanation for the number of sworn officers in Counties-Manukau being run down in the past few months from 683 to 633—a reduction of 50 front-line staff—while there are over 1000 unallocated cases in Counties-Manukau? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Restructuring took place. There are now more police in the Auckland area than there were at the time of restructuring. There are now 2088. There were then 2072. 
Stephen Franks 
: Is the Minister satisfied that the Northern Communications Centre has enough staff who are properly trained to do their duties; if so on what basis? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The police have conducted a review—they have had that done—and will make some announcements about that shortly. 
Martin Gallagher 
: How has the reorganisation of some staff into the Auckland metropolitan crime and operations service group affected police service delivery in the Counties-Manukau Police District? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Under the new structure in addition to Counties-Manukau staff North Shore - Waitakere has 622 sworn staff Auckland has 637 and the Auckland metropolitan crime and operations group has 196. Although the same staff are sitting at the same desks in the same stations the new structure is proving highly effective. I am advised that in North Shore - Waitakere crime was down by 7.4 percent last year in Auckland it was down by 11.9 percent last year and in Counties-Manukau it was down by 11.3 percent. I hope most people would rejoice in that. 
Marc Alexander 
: Is the Minister comfortable with our low police-to-population ratio in comparison with other jurisdictions such as Australia Britain and the US or is he simply unable to obtain resources from the Minister of Finance to ensure the public’s safety? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: We compare apples with apples. We look at what results were and we look at them now. New Zealand’s police are doing a very good job. Crime has dropped down by 8.2 percent which is the best it has been for more than 20 years and the police are getting more and more resources. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why does the Minister not simply confess to the House that front-line police numbers in Counties-Manukau have been run down deliberately in the last 9 months to meet the Government’s funding constraints? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: This Government has given the police more money. That member was going to take it away. He sat in Cabinet as Minister of Justice when his Government was reducing police numbers by 540 and cutting $40 million to $50 million out of the budget. 
Marc Alexander 
: Has the Minister put in a bid for more resources to fund additional front-line staff; if so is he confident of receiving it; if not why not? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: That member will have to wait until 19 May when I will be smiling. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table an official police document—the New Zealand Police monthly human resources scorecard 
— 
which shows 50 fewer— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. The document may not be tabled. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I seek the leave of the House to ask the Minister why his coalition partners do not know the details of the police budget that is about to be announced. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Ron Mark 
: It is a point of order. I am seeking leave to ask the question why the coalition partner to the Government does not know the details of the police budget. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to ask that question. Is there any objection? There is. The question will not be asked. 
Marc Alexander 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I would like to correct that member. We are not a coalition partner. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Thank you for that point of clarification.