8. Question No. 8—HealthDr SHANE RETI (National) to the Minister of HealthQuestion No. 8—Health8. Dr SHANE RETI (National) to the Minister of Health: How many people if any waited longer than four months to see a specialist and how many if any waited longer than four months for surgery in the 12 months to June 30 this year?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health): I've been advised that as at 31 May this year 35522 are recorded as waiting longer than four months for a first specialist appointment and 27356 people are recorded as waiting longer than four months for treatment. For completeness over the last three years there have been increases and decreases in the planned-care waiting lists because of the way COVID-19 has affected the country. For example after the response to the initial outbreak in 2020 we saw waiting times increase because of lockdowns. Then as restrictions eased waiting times reduced. Then following the Delta and Omicron and outbreaks waiting times increased. As hospitals have responded to the worst flu season in living memory this winter waiting times have continued to increase. To address this issue the planned-care task force set up earlier this year has provided initial advice on steps hospitals can take to reduce waiting lists. That initial advice is now reflected in a directive from the Chief Executive of Te Whatu Ora - Health New Zealand to district and regional directors last week requiring immediate action to amongst other things identify the patients waiting longer than 12 months for their first specialist appointment; to make sure that they receive an appointment in order of clinical priority by 30 September this year; create significant capacity by eliminating unnecessary follow ups; actively use outsourced and out-placed theatre endoscopy and radiology capacity to maximise care over the winter period; and where practical offering patients the opportunity to receive their care outside their local district.Dr Shane Reti: Does he stand by his answer to written questions showing the wait list for surgery had already increased by thousands or over 600 percent in this Government's first two years in office before COVID-19 even arrived?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I refer the member to my answer to his primary question which is that waiting times have fluctuated over the last few years. But there is no question that COVID-19 has had a hugely detrimental impact on the ability of our hospital system to schedule people their planned care as they would wish to have it.Dr Shane Reti: Does he believe he's doing a good job in health when revelations from the New Zealand Nurses Organisation today said that in an overall effort to manage wait lists Dunedin Hospital called in student nurses who were unlikely to have been on a hospital ward before." and then paid for their work with supermarket vouchers?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Two points on that. Once upon a time 20 or so years ago all student nurses spent most of their time working in a hospital—that's how we trained our nurses. We spend more time training nurses in polytechs now but actually the critical element of their learning is to spend time in a hospital while they qualify to get their registration. The second point is and I've made it clear if anybody is employed in a hospital to do the work of a healthcare assistant and we have many of them in our hospital system they should be paid as a healthcare assistant.Dr Shane Reti: How then can New Zealanders have any confidence in his leadership of their healthcare system when one of these students was quoted as saying "Honestly I felt very unprepared for this shift—I had no idea what I was doing."?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well I refer the member to my previous answer in that once upon a time all nurses all people training to be nurses before they got their registration worked in hospitals and did extensive hours in hospital—that's the way we trained nurses. And in fact that is the way we continue to train some nurses too. Probably one of the most common comments I get from a lot of people including registered nurses is: why we can't get more enrolled nurses? And I think that's a very important suggestion that we can pick up on. But if the member is asking what I am pleased about in the time that I've been Minister of Health I am very pleased to have led reforms in a system that means that we can now do what we could never do before which was coordinate and get in behind the hospital management to actually address the longstanding problems which right now includes growing waiting lists.Dr Shane Reti: Is the President of the New Zealand Orthopaedic Association correct when he states "The number of people waiting for elective surgery [is] much worse than the numbers released by the Government" or is he speaking with the same forked tongue that the Minister accused the Nurses Organisation—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will now apologise.Dr Shane Reti: I apologise."