O'Connor Simon: New Zealand Business Number Bill — First ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeO'Connor Simon: New Zealand Business Number Bill — First Reading[Sitting date: 05 May 2015. Volume:705;Page:3199. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]SIMON O’CONNOR (National—Tāmaki): I am pleased to stand to take a call on this first reading of the New Zealand Business Number Bill. I am actually quite pleased to speak after the previous speaker Fletcher Tabuteau and in fact other members who have spoken before because I think this bill is being given the due consideration already in its first reading that it deserves particularly as it moves towards the Commerce Committee.I think no one is philosophically opposed as I can hear it at the moment against the notion of having a singular number to identify a business. There are naturally some questions that are arising around privacy and how that will be handled but I think we on this side of the House are very proud of the National Party’s engagement with business be it large medium or small. I know that over many recent weeks that enthusiasm—in particular by the small and medium enterprises—has been shown by the countless questions given to the Hon Craig Foss and an attempt to continue to show the really good work that National proudly does with small to medium sized enterprises. I welcome more questions not only from this side but of course from the Opposition once it has finished reading and working out what it is all about.What I have to say as the MP for Tāmakiis that I am very fortunate to have a number of business owners in the electorate. Tāmaki is not a place of a number of businesses running per se other than the usual likes of restaurants and cafes and various activities but a lot of Auckland business owners are there—Andrew Bayly: A great place.SIMON O’CONNOR: A great place indeed. But although they are pleased with what is happening within governmental procedures around business they still want more change. One of the fundamental areas that comes up is how we can work better in a digital developing environment. I think one of the key elements of this to make it happen—I am going to use two analogies in this speech—and to make businesses more effective and efficient in a digital environment is through the likes of a single business number.The first analogy I would draw the House’s attention to is obviously in the health sector. As the chair of the Health Committee it is something that I am interested in the notion of a national health number. We have had that for a number of years. I think it is very analogous to this bill—the ability to have a single number that enables the Government and others to identify a particular person or entity and in the health context of course to provide the care that is necessary. Like anything that comes down to a singular number it often becomes very concerning how it is going to be used or misused. I think if we look at the health example those issues really have not come up.In fact in more recent weeks—and if it is slightly tangential I hope the House will forgive me—in the Health Committee we have had a series of questions raised around privacy to do with the Health (Protection) Amendment Bill and the notion of contact tracing. So if someone has an infectious disease how do you reach out and make sure that those who have been infected are well looked after and identified? Some people were very very concerned that using a single number the National Health Index (NHI) may actually breach someone’s privacy but expert after expert lobbyist after lobbyist said that actually the NHI this particular single number is an incredibly strong factor if you will enabling us to provide good and right care and that it has in the past been rightfully used.So I think in terms of the New Zealand Business Number this bill and the concerns of privacy we can turn to the health sector and see an example there of something that is working rather well. The other element—another metaphor comes in this case from the Ministry of Social Development in which I worked for a number of years. So many people come into that department again with a single number or are meant to come into the department with a single number. First and foremost you treat them as an individual. They come before you as a Mary Smith or as a Joe Jackson and you engage with them there. But as we move again into a digital environment you need a number to enable them to access the systems.I mention that because again like the health number it is a way to identify but what is also important—and I think this Government is clear on it—is that you also need the systems in the background. In the Ministry of Social Development days if someone came in through Work and Income or StudyLink you had two computer systems to deal with—the old DOS-based system called SWIFTT and simultaneously a new Windows-based system called I think UCV2. The irony of someone working on the front line was that if one single person came in even with their client number you still had to use two completely different systems to try to work out their full and correct entitlement. So I use that as a caveat around this bill that although we move quite rightly to a single number to identify businesses I think that from my experience we want to make sure that the systems in the background are appropriate because there is no point in having one New Zealand Business Number if we are going to have a multiplicity of systems in the background—it will just confuse things.When I go out into the electorate or travel around the country businesses want to work more efficiently. They want to ultimately save costs and we as consumers want to see costs saved because if the business is doing well and can produce something more cheaply then paradoxically we get it cheaper as well. Businesses have been asking for a while now for this single business number something that they can just use if they want to call up the Inland Revenue Department or if they want to call up Work and Income if they are taking a young person on say for a role through the myriad of activities we have there so the business owners can ring up and be instantly identified. They know exactly what clients are involved. If they are going to be calling up even something like the Commerce Commission—I am not exactly sure how far this Business Number will be shared across Government departments. I am looking toward the chair of the select committee Melissa Lee. I am sure that is something that we will be looking at as a select committee as this goes through and asking what Government departments will be using and accessing this number. How will they be interrelating? But it is very clear when I have talked to my constituents back in the fine seat of Tāmaki that they want something like this the ability to just call up.Some have noted already—and it is more in their personal context—that they are using the RealMe system. Without being too advertorial it is where you basically go down to the post office or the like and sign yourself up for a digital identity.Kris Faafoi: If the post office is still open.SIMON O’CONNOR: I am very happy to say that post offices are still open thriving and well loved in my electorate. I cannot speak for that honourable member’s but they are incredibly well loved. I have to actually thank New Zealand Post for the engagement that it is giving. I believe actually that it is a former member of that party who is the chair is it not? Is it Michael Cullen?Hon Craig Foss: He’s been closing more than he’s opened.SIMON O’CONNOR: Oh he has been closing more than he has opened. That is very interesting. But anyway we digress—we digress. We were talking about RealMe. Again it is an ability for individual New Zealanders to go down to establish their digital identity which means they can walk into a bank for example or certain New Zealand Post services the Inland Revenue Department and other places to actually access their services. That is exactly analogous to the New Zealand Business Number Bill that actually a range of New Zealand businesses large and small will be able to seek a number so that they too can most primarily I would suggest go online and access the services that they need.This is part of the Better Public Services agenda of this Government. It is something that the Government has been following right since it was elected in 2008 and something I have been pleased to be associated with since being elected in 2011. It is Result 9 for those boffins who are very keen to be looking at the documents and I am sure Megan Woods is on to it now. She is going to be going through that paper looking for Result 9. [Bell rung] Excellent! For whom does the bell toll? We are here to deliver better public services—Dr Megan Woods: Come on you can do ten. Keep going.SIMON O’CONNOR: We are going to do our best you see. It is all about numbers you see. Ten is important. It is around Result 9 where we are delivering better public services to business customers and one of the goals we have given to ourselves is to reduce the cost to businesses dealing with the Government by 25 percent in 2017. That is only 2 years away. It is something we are very keen on.The business number system is for a range of groups in New Zealand. As we said it is obviously a unique identifier primarily aimed at the corporate and public entities and those that are unincorporated. There is a bit of talk in the bill around natural persons. In other words if you have established a body corporate I assume or sole trade in a different name through your trust arrangements those too can obtain a Business Number. I think quite importantly too for those New Zealanders who operate multiple sole-trading corporate entities and the like they will be able to obtain several numbers for those entities. Again the whole purpose of this bill is to make things easier.We do note because it has not been picked up by other speakers that there is a whole area within this bill around offences. It is one thing obviously to put something in place but when you are making laws making changes for something as important as business you need to make sure that people are using these systems appropriately. We have seen with other legislation in the House particularly in the digital or the e-commerce space that it is a new area and it is fraught with difficulties so the bill at the moment is noting that a person who commits an offence and who knowingly uses a number that is a false New Zealand Business Number without a reasonable excuse could be subject to a maximum penalty and conviction of up to $250000. Although I can see Opposition members smiling that is incredibly serious and none of us would want to fall into this area.There are also offences for people who make or give authorised statements or documents to the registrar that are false. The integrity of a system like this is incredibly important. It is like the integrity of the Government—the people know that that is fine and secure; that is why we continue to ride high in the polls. But it is the same around the things like RealMe. It has been the same as I talked at the start around the National Health Index number and so forth. People need confidence in the system. So we are very keen—very keen—that that confidence remains. I am conscious of time. The numbers are against me. I sit down.