Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:14732] 
11.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: Does he agree with the reported comments by Immigration Service spokeswoman Janine Parsons that the exploited Thai overstayer bakery worker case in New Lynn sent a strong warning to employers hiring overstayers or exploiting staff and how widespread does he believe this problem to be? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 Yes. The penalty for knowingly hiring an unlawful worker including an overstayer has been increased by this Government. It is unclear how widespread the problem is but from my discussions with the horticultural industry my view is that there is a problem. This issue is being considered as part of work relating to labour and skill shortages in New Zealand and as part of the review of the Immigration Act. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If there is a problem firstly why did the Inland Revenue Department deny it just a year ago and secondly how can the $2000 fine that was imposed on a crook from the Western Bakery in New Lynn who exploited a Thai overstayer for 7 years on $4.70 an hour 12 hours a day 7 days a week—making $250000 in profit—be consistent without sending some message to the employers of this country? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I am not sure and the member will have to ask the judge. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I will not ask the judge; I am asking the Minister. If the member is going to be a Minister then it is high time he started to answer the questions. I am asking the Minister of Immigration whether he thinks it sends a consistent message. If he wants me to ask the judge then I will take leave and I will do that via this Parliament. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the Minister was asked for an opinion which he can give if he wishes. The Minister can address the question in that way but if he wants to add to that he can. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: It is up to Parliament to set the penalties; it is up to judges to impose the penalties. That is why I suggested that the member should take it up with the judge. 
Moana Mackey 
: What has the Government done to toughen up on employers who hire people unlawfully? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Quite a lot. In 2002 the Government increased penalties by increasing the maximum fine from $2000 to $50000 for employers who knowingly employ a migrant not lawfully entitled to undertake that work; created a new strict liability offence with a maximum fine of $10000 for an employer who employs a migrant to do work he or she is not entitled to undertake; and created a new offence with a maximum fine of $100000 and 7 years’ imprisonment for any employer who knowingly employs a migrant not lawfully entitled to do that work and exploits that migrant. I understand that all parties in the House supported those changes. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What responsibility does he and his Government intend to take for the Inland Revenue Department refusing to decline IRD numbers to such overstayers and dishing them out willy-nilly which is what has been going on; and how is it fair that the hard-working overstayer who got absolutely totally exploited to the tune of $250000 got sent home while the crook stayed here? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: In answer to the first part of the question there is an issue between the ways in which the Inland Revenue Department in my view gives out numbers to people who are not lawfully able to work in New Zealand. That is an issue that has been taken up as part of the review of the Act. There is a concern there even though I am sure that the Minister of Revenue will have a view on that from another perspective. As far as the second point is concerned as I have said the Government’s responsibility is to set the penalties which it has done. It has increased them substantially as I pointed out and it is up to the courts to make decisions about the appropriate level of sentence for that particular offence.