English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8696] 
4.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: Has he completed the review of the electoral finance regime; if so what specific changes to the Electoral Act 1993 if any will he be proposing? 
Hon MARK BURTON (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 No but work is well advanced. In congratulating the newly reinstated leader of the National Party I am pleased to advise that the review— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I remind members once more that both questions and answers should not contain throwaway comments and imputations against other members. We will stick strictly to the question and the answer. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I apologise. I relied on what I had read but never mind. Work is well advanced on the review and I am pleased to advise that it is progressing well. Final decisions are certainly not far off. I can also advise Mr English that the electoral finance proposals I will be putting forward will involve a clear choice between either an open a transparent and a fair system or a continuation of the current system which regrettably  
The Hollow Men 
 shows is unduly open to secret trusts and manipulation by hidden and wealthy interest groups. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister tell the House whether he has discussed the proposal for State funding of up to $1 million for the Labour Party with the leader of the parliamentary Labour Party or the president of the Labour Party; if so what was the nature of those discussions? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I discuss all such major proposals which anything to do with electoral law reform certainly is extensively within my own caucus. It would be bizarre if I did not do so. The member will see in due course when the work is completed—as I indicated the work is not yet complete on this matter but when it is—I will introduce a bill to the House which will then be subjected to the full and normal parliamentary process. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is it just a coincidence that the proposals include a proposition for State funding of the Labour Party of $1 million next year when Labour has yet to pay back the roughly equivalent amount of $800000 because of its misuse of taxpayers’ money at the last election? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: That’s outrageous. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: I find myself for once agreeing with Dr Nick Smith that the question was outrageous and I think it contained many completely inaccurate assertions the most foolish of which of course as I—[ 
Interruption 
] Had the member paid attention to the answer to his principal question he would know that I have not yet completed the work; therefore the assumption on which this question is based simply cannot be sustained. The work continues. When a bill is put into the House then the substance of that bill will be able to be scrutinised and debated by not only the Parliament but any New Zealander with an interest in it when it is referred to and goes through the select committee process. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why should any member of this House or any— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry Mr Peters; I saw and I called Mr Bill English because I saw him first. I acknowledge you will be called next but I had already called him. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. When I get to my feet to raise a point of order I will actually be afforded the chance to say what it is without you being a soothsayer and presuming what I am about to say. That is the first thing. The second thing is this is not the first time that has happened and with respect you know what the procedure is. You should look to both sides of the House—in this case to the other side of the House first—to see whether any member is seeking the call. That procedure has been used here for decades and I wish you would proceed to use it. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member for his observation but it is for the Speaker to determine who is given the call. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why should any party any member of Parliament or any member of the public support Labour in using its Government majority to pass a law that compels taxpayers to put their hands in their pockets for $1 million for the Labour Party to help the Labour Party pay off the $800000 that it owes taxpayers because of its misuse of public money at the last election? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The member is clearly having a bad day with comprehension. The work is not complete. There is therefore no such proposition before this Parliament. I refer the member to the one major document on the subject of State funding which we all have the advantage of being able to look at historically: the royal commission report. If the member considered the sort of proposal in that report I think he would work out that if that were to be implemented for instance the New Zealand National Party would benefit by precisely the same amount as the New Zealand Labour Party and the smaller parties in this Parliament would proportionately do somewhat better. But more important no such work is complete. There is no bill before the House. When there is I am sure we will have a full and an interesting debate. 
Hon Bill English 
: Which parties has the Labour Party discussed these proposals with and which parties support its proposal to pass a law to make taxpayers pay $1 million to the Labour Party so it can pay back the $800000 it owes to taxpayers for misusing public money during the last election—which parties support that? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The member should first understand—and let us clear away the red herring he keeps introducing into this—that the $800000 he refers to which is completely unrelated to any legislation that I have anything to do with will be paid within this financial year. If the member thinks through the implications of that he will see there can be no relationship between that and any bill that will still be in the Parliament being debated at the end of this financial year. The Government is talking with a number of groups and parties about the shape of a possible bill. As I have already said to the member that work is still work in progress; no final decisions have been made. When they are made a bill will be finalised introduced to the House and referred to a select committee where members of Parliament and members of New Zealand society will be able to contribute to the debate. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister tell the House whether Labour has the support of New Zealand First and United Future to push this bill— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In my view the last question was out of order but this one definitely is. What New Zealand First or United Future think of these proposals is not the business or the responsibility of the Minister—quite the converse that is the responsibility of the individual parties concerned. Therefore the question is entirely inappropriate. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member is correct. I was waiting to hear the full question but it was about parties not the Government and that is where the responsibility lies. The member may wish to recast his question. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The point of this question is to find out whether there is parliamentary support for the idea of State funding for the Labour Party and it is clearly within  
Cabinet Manual 
 procedures that the Minister is responsible for ensuring that there is support for legislation. That is in the  
Cabinet Manual 
; it is not just something we made up. It is what the Prime Minister requires of her Ministers. Ministers are regularly asked about the arrangements they have made to get support for legislation and in this case Labour must have the support of New Zealand First and United Future to put $1 million into Labour Party coffers or he would not even be proposing the legislation. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: Yet again the member started his point of order with a complete misrepresentation of the facts. This question is not about party support; it would not have been allowed I am sure if it were. It was simply about whether I have completed the review of the electoral finance regime. I have answered that question thoroughly for the benefit of the member. He now tries to make up a new question. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister believe he has sufficient votes in the House to push through such legislation before the end of the financial year so that Labour can use the $1 million of State funding to repay the $800000 that it has not yet repaid for the misuse of taxpayers’ money at the last election? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: When members are quiet I will call the member to address the question. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: As I have told the member in response to virtually every question he has asked there is not a bill to push anywhere—it is not yet complete. When it is it will be introduced. I have already said it is my absolute expectation that the point the bill will be at by the end of this current financial year is before a select committee and open to submissions. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Minister confirm that the review covers the issue of a political party stashing hundreds of thousands of dollars into one account then transferring it by one transaction to the campaign account and claiming that that abides by the electoral law of this country which is precisely what the National Party did at the last election and can the Minister then confirm that the review also covers the statutory responsibility of statutory officers to prosecute that party? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister is to address the general substance of that question not specifically the part about the National Party. 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: The underlying cause of this review is that the public should have the highest confidence that the electoral system is transparent fair and not open to the undue influence of wealthy interest groups. The changes I am working towards will help to promote participation in this parliamentary democracy. It is the Government’s view that there should be transparency and openness about the sources of private financial support for political parties and candidates in order to prevent the undue influence of unnamed groups or individuals who are effectively trying to buy an election. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why does the Labour Party want to put its hand into taxpayers’ pockets in order to bail out a broke Labour Party that is desperate for re-election? 
Hon MARK BURTON 
: When the bill is complete it will be introduced to the House. I fully anticipate the bill dealing with electoral finance reform to be referred to the appropriate select committee where I am sure it will be subjected to considerable scrutiny and debate. I expect that is where the bill will be at the end of the current financial year.