edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3755] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There are two points. The first relates to an indication at the beginning of a speech that there will be a motion to refer the bill to a select committee. You are absolutely correct in saying that members cannot move such a motion without their having signalled it at the beginning of the debate. Among the requirements is to signal which select committee the bill will go to and any other restrictions. My submission to you is that those are the outside boundaries and if a member later chooses to move something that is within those boundaries but does not take full advantage of them then that is the right of the member. 
The other point I would like to refer you to is Speaker’s ruling 24/7—it goes back to 1891 to Mr Speaker Steward—which indicates “A motion of which notice has been given cannot when before the House be altered by the mover without the unanimous consent of the House.” It is my submission to you that at the point that the Minister resumed his seat that motion was before the House and it cannot at that point be changed. I think it is pretty straightforward. The ruling is of very very longstanding. A motion was moved that was within the boundaries of the notice that had been given and the Minister then resumed his seat. At that point the motion was before the House and notwithstanding your helpful advice—on the advice of the Clerk—to the Minister it is my submission that at that point it was too late and you were obligated to put the motion in those terms.
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3754] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I think the situation is relatively straightforward. There is no doubt that the motion put initially by the Hon Rodney Hide was different from the motion that he had signalled to the House in his first reading speech. The first thing is that he had signalled clearly to the House that there would be a referral motion and that there would be a report-back date. He is therefore obligated when he comes to move the motion to move the same motion. I would draw a parallel with the situation when members put down questions for oral answer; members are required to ask the exact question that is on the Order Paper. 
The second point I would make in this regard is that the motion had not been carried by the House. Before I put the question I invited the Minister—on the advice of the Clerk—to correct the motion. The Clerk had identified that Mr Hide had made a mistake. The Minister then corrected it. The next point is for me to put the resolution. If the motion had been moved and carried it would have been as Mr Mallard said all over Rover. It would then have been the decision of the House. At this stage it is not the decision of the House.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3754] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I think it is a fairly simple point. Mr Assistant Speaker you were acting on advice and I accept that but in this particular case I think you were not correctly advised. It is not often that I disagree with someone who sits in the Clerk’s chair but when a member has completed his speech and resumed his seat it is all over Rover. That is the case that occurred. 
It is not something that is irredeemable. The Government essentially has a choice: it can adjourn now and move the referral motion again as a Government order of business on the next sitting day or it can put the original motion and then sometime over the next few months pass a motion that returns the situation back to what the Government wants. Clearly we will vote against it but it is not something that we will obstruct as long as it is done properly within the procedures of the House.
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3754] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 The point that needs to be made is that there is a significant difference in this particular case. Although it was true that the Minister of Local Government had resumed his seat nevertheless you asked—and you are in sole charge of this House—the Minister to complete the motion which he continued to do. Nothing intervened after the time that he made the comments and as a consequence the House certainly can consider the motion as a whole. At the end of the day you are the final judge but given that you invited the Minister to continue the motion—which he did—and complete it the House can consider it.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3754] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 The point is Mr Assistant Speaker that you called the Minister he moved the motion he sat down and his call was finished just as Mr Mallard pointed out. Further in support of what Mr Mallard has put to you I say that there is a direct precedent for this. It happened in the last term of Parliament with a justice bill when the Minister failed to move the correct referral motion at the end. On that occasion it was not pointed out by the Clerk. The Minister realised the motion was not correct moments after the question had been put and before the vote had been taken. The Hon Dr Nick Smith raised a point of order on it. That will be clear in the  
Hansard  
record. The Government paid the price for it and had to come back subsequently with a procedural motion to clean matters up. There is nothing we can do about this. The motion was moved by the Minister and he resumed his seat—it is over. You are now bound Mr Assistant Speaker to put that motion to the House to be voted on.
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3754] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I do apologise to the Hon Trevor Mallard. I did make a mistake Mr Assistant Speaker. But I point out that the actual motion had not been put. You quite rightly corrected me I moved the motion again and that motion is now on the floor.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3753] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The member had moved the motion. I do not think it is within the discretion of the House to hear the second motion in any way other than as an amendment to the first motion that he had moved. He moved it and sat down; he was finished. I do not think that we can now give him a second chance to get it right. It is a matter that can be corrected by way of a motion in the House properly put down by the Government to foreshorten the time for the bill to be at the select committee but that is something that will have to be done at the next sitting. The member very very clearly moved something. It is something that the House should address. No other Minister gets a second chance to get a motion right and there should not be an exception for this one.
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3753] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I move that the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill be considered by the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker) 
: The Clerk reminds me that there was to be a report-back date. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: I can read the whole thing if you like Mr Assistant Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I think it would be very important that you read the whole thing. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: I move  
That the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill be considered by the Auckland Governance Legislation Committee and that the committee report finally to the House on or before 4 September 2009.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3753] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill be now read a first time. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 51 
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 5; Maori Party 4. 
Bill read a first time.
Blue Jackie: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Blue Jackie: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3748] 
Dr JACKIE BLUE (National) 
: 
 I rise to take a short call on the first reading of the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill. It follows on from the Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill which was passed this evening. We need to look at the facts here. The facts are that the previous Labour Government set up the royal commission—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I am sorry to interrupt the member. An interchange is going on between two members and I cannot hear what the honourable member Dr Jackie Blue is saying. She has only just commenced her speech. 
Dr JACKIE BLUE 
: The facts are that the Royal Commission on Auckland Governance was set up under the previous Labour Government. It recommended that there be one unitary council. It recommended that it be implemented urgently and that is what this Government has done. The bill that was passed earlier this evening did that. The bill that we are currently discussing sets up the framework for that council and what is important is that it looks at second-tier representation. We were not happy with the royal commission’s recommendations on the second tier. We want to go to the community on that issue and we will be having a select committee process. We will be having open forums and we will be listening to people. We are not paying lip-service to the community. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I commend this bill to the House.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3745] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I now understand that you did not hear the first phrase of the leader of the ACT Party. He did not describe a member accurately; he did it provocatively and deliberately. He was in breach of the Standing Orders and the Speakers’ rulings of this House and I ask him to withdraw and apologise. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I am sorry; I did not hear that. If that is the case I ask the member to withdraw that comment. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: I withdraw.
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3745] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The deputy leader of the Labour Party the Hon David Cunliffe indicated earlier when seeking leave—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I will hear what the member— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: No you can’t let him do that! 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I have not heard what he is going to say. [ 
Interruption 
] Sit down! I am standing— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: He just stood before— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I am standing. The Hon Rodney Hide has a point of order. What is the point of order? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: I am inviting the Hon David Cunliffe to seek leave again because if Parekura Horomia— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: No that is not a point of order. Sit down.
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3737] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 It is quite funny is it not—I say this in response to what the Hon George Hawkins just said—but the last time I looked Auckland was still there. So I do not know who stole it. 
It is ironic—and we often get some irony in this House—that for the last 3 days or more Opposition members have been saying to us that they actually support having one city in Auckland but the reason they do not support the first bill is that we have not sent it to the select committee. Here we are now with a bill that will go to the select committee and Opposition members do not like it. They do not want people to have a say. 
I am pleased to support the Government and to support the Minister of Local Government Rodney Hide in the first reading of the Local Government (Auckland Council) Bill. It starts the process of consultation that we said we would give the people of Auckland. Most important it allows the people of Auckland to tell us what they want. I know that it is unusual for the Labour Party to do this but rather than our prescribing things and telling people about them afterwards or letting them have their say afterwards we are going out there with an open book. We are saying: “Just inform us and then we will see how we can accommodate that.” That is the very point. 
We hear rhetoric from those members all the time saying that we are doing it wrong but I did not hear one speech that said: “Here is the alternative.”—not one speech. Opposition members did not tell us what they would have done if they had had the opportunity. It is a good thing that those members did not have the opportunity because we would have got some more old granny State stuff instead of actually genuinely getting out there and listening to the people. 
That is what this bill will do. That is what this Government is about what this Prime Minister is about and what this Minister of Local Government is about. I am proud to support a Government that is doing those things. This is a great day for New Zealand. It is a great day for Auckland. It is a great day for the country. It is a great day for democracy. I support all those things.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3733] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 It is true that it is the 13th.. That is a number that is pretty fitting for Gerry Brownlee.
Brownlee Gerry: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
Brownlee Gerry: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3733] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I just wanted to confirm that technically we are still on Wednesday 13 May. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes we are. 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Thank you. I knew I would get this done before Thursday.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3733] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is not normal for us to sit on a Saturday and I want to be assured and make sure the House is assured that the National whip is in a position to cast 58 votes. There were number of National MPs seen leaving from the rear of Parliament House over the dinner break and I do not think they have had the chance to return. I am not calling for a personal vote but I want the assurance so I can take consideration of what we have been told. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are no provisions in the Standing Orders to seek such an assurance. The votes voted by the parties are the votes that are counted.
Vote: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
Vote: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3733] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau) Reorganisation Bill be read a third time. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 52 
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4. 
Bill read a third time.
Peachey Allan: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
Peachey Allan: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3730] 
ALLAN PEACHEY (National—Tamaki) 
: 
 It is a privilege to speak on the third reading of the Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau) Bill. This very fine bill will enhance the growth and prosperity of the Auckland region and therefore of New Zealand. I commend this legislation to the House.
Collins Judith: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
Collins Judith: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3728] 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 This Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau) Bill is the first of three bills to deal with Auckland governance. People have been concerned by Labour’s claims that Aucklanders are being shut out of the debate. The other two bills will have full select committee involvement and people will have a huge amount of opportunity to submit. I commend this bill to the House.
Carter John: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
Carter John: Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill — Third Reading 
[Volume:654;Page:3722] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I am pleased to follow my colleague from up in Northland. One of the things that happens when you work in this place is that you get to make friends. I count Shane Jones as one of the friends I have made. One of the interesting things I have found with Shane is that although he is an interesting and entertaining speaker if members listen to what he says—with the exception of a couple of things—they will notice that he never actually says a lot. But he is entertaining nevertheless. 
I agree with him on a couple of points. The first point is that this House needs to thank the Clerks at the Table for all the work they have done. They have done a brilliant job. Secondly we also need to thank the officials for all the support they have given us during this time. Leeanne O’Brien from the Parliamentary Counsel Office has done an outstanding job as well and deserves to be recognised and thanked very much. 
Amongst all these acknowledgments of the people who have made this Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill happen we also need to acknowledge the Minister in charge of the bill the Hon Rodney Hide who has also shown good leadership to all the people who have been working with him. He has taken great interest in this legislation and is certainly supportive of it. 
I guess the point I really want to make and which is important for us all to understand is that over the last 2 or 3 days we have set in place the ability for us to listen to the wishes and needs of Auckland and to put in place a system that will allow all Aucklanders to have good local governance that will deal with the infrastructural issues that have been of concern to them. At the same time the system will protect their rights to have their local government at a local level in order to make sure that the issues that concern them and that affect them on a daily basis are attended to and reflected. 
That is why I am proud to support this legislation. It is not as if we have finished; we have actually just started. We have started on a long journey. There will be lots of consultation. There will be lots of input. There will be lots of changes. I have said before that just about everything is on the table other than the decision the Government has taken that we will have one Auckland City. Other than that we are an open book. We will be out there to listen. 
That is the nice thing with this Government and our Prime Minister Mr John Key. He is a person who listens. He wants to hear what Aucklanders have to say. John Key; this Government; the Minister in charge of the bill Rodney Hide; and all of us have set up a procedure that allows that situation to happen. I have to say if ever there was an opportunity to see democracy in progress it is today. I am proud to support the bill.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3718] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the report be adopted. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 36 
New Zealand Labour 25; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Report adopted.
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3718] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I move  
That the report be adopted.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3718] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That clause 2 as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 36 
New Zealand Labour 25; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Clause 2 as amended agreed to. 
House resumed. 
Bill reported with amendment.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3718] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That clause 1 as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 36 
New Zealand Labour 25; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Clause 1 as amended agreed to.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3717] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 On the question of the Mayor of Carterton I think that it has already been made clear from the evidence in the Committee this afternoon—although you might not have been in the Chair—from Mr Hipkins that the Minister of Local Government has called for and received a report on reorganisation in the Wellington region. Carterton is part of that region. The concern of the Opposition is that this process not only is being set up for Auckland but will be carried throughout the country. It is undemocratic reform: there is a lack of referenda as required under the Local Government Act; and there is the lack of a select committee process which should apply to this area. Although not all of us think that the Mayor of Carterton at the present time is the best character in the world and that Ron Mark could well do a better job the mayors of the Wellington region could well have a view as to processes for the country generally. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Speaking to the point of order. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: No I think that we have had enough. I say to Trevor Mallard that I listened to Chris Hipkins. He talked about Upper Hutt and Lower Hutt but he did not mention Carterton. The last point that I make to the member is that the title of the bill is a give-away. It was Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill; we now have the Local Government (Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation) Bill. Tamaki-makau-rau is a long way from the Wairarapa.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3717] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I think two points need to be made. They probably both go to questions of substance. I take very serious issue with your ruling on frivolity. I do not accept the idea that reorganisation cannot be done with a sense of unanimity and a sense of Parliament the country and the local authorities coming together. I think it is appropriate for the Committee to make that decision. A process that involves other people who guard the country’s processes such as the president of the Law Commission and the Chief Ombudsman might raise argument as to their roles but I think an argument can be made that it is appropriate for those people to be involved. On the question of dates it is certainly my view that the date issue notwithstanding Rodney Hide’s amendment when put together with the other substance could rule out some of the amendments but not all of them. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: On the date issue I say that the Committee having made an amendment on the issue has set the date that the bill comes into force. The Committee has determined what the date is and any other date is then inconsistent with that decision. The date amendments have gone. 
On the substance issue Mr Mallard makes a very good point but I have heard no justification as to what role the Mayor of Carterton could possibly have in this legislation. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I can give you that one. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I ask the member to let me finish. Carterton is a long way from Auckland I grant you. I have ruled the amendments out. The member might like to make some closing comments but I do not think I am persuadable.
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3716] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I say to members that I am happy to rule. I have now personally perused for myself half of the amendments—they are all in the same form—and I find the amendments are out of order on two counts: firstly the date issue is well taken care of in Rodney Hide’s amendment; and secondly I would rule them out on the basis that they are not serious amendments. I intend no disrespect to the very important office of the chief Opposition whip but I do not think that it is a serious amendment to say that things cannot happen until the chief Opposition whip has signed them off. The member may disagree and I must tell members that there are lots of things for which the chief Opposition whip’s sign-off is very important—one of them being leave amongst other things—and we all hang on his word. However in this particular circumstance I do not believe that is a serious amendment. The second role whose sign-off is required is the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. It then goes on to the president of the Law Commission the Chief Ombudsman—I could go on—there is the Mayor of North Shore City etc. 
Hon Member 
: A good fellow. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: Yes as the member interjects I have no doubt that the mayor is a very good person but it would be inappropriate for the Chief Ombudsman for example to be involved in signing off anything to do with statutes. That is not the role that the person has. So the first reason I think the amendments are out of order is that they are inconsistent with the amendment put forward by Rodney Hide and the second reason is that I do not think they are particularly serious.
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3716] 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) 
: 
 I will start by saying that the Opposition also agrees that Office of the Clerk has done a wonderful job and there is no criticism at all of the office. The staff have worked under considerable pressure. There has been an enormous number of amendments brought about by the process that the Government is running. The point that Mr Hughes makes is quite a valid one and one on which we seek a ruling. His point is that the effect of some of the Opposition amendments is not covered by the amendments that have been put by the Minister because they relate not to the date on which the Act comes into force following the Royal assent but to what must happen prior to the bill going for the Royal assent. That is a different question.
Guy Nathan: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Guy Nathan: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3716] 
NATHAN GUY (Senior Whip—National) 
: 
 You Mr Chairperson have given a clear ruling to the Committee that these amendments in the name of Jacinda Ardern have been ruled out of order. I think it is unfair of the Opposition to directly attack the Clerk’s Office. I think the staff have done a fantastic job. You have ruled and the Committee therefore should not challenge your ruling.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3716] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I ask you Mr Chairperson to advise the Committee because obviously a lot of amendments are involved. We acknowledge that the Committee has passed two amendments in the Minister’s name—the second one being to clause 2 to omit the words “on the day” and to substitute the words “2 days”. A number of the amendments in front of you refer not only to the date on which the bill comes into effect but also to what has to happen before the Royal assent can be given and particularly to some consultation with specified individuals. I think that even though we can accept that the actual day the bill becomes an Act has changed because of Mr Hide’s amendments there are a number of amendments for the period leading up to that point. I think that some advice from you to the Committee would be quite helpful.
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Carter John: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3716] 
Hon JOHN CARTER (Associate Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 It is not for me to speak of course but I know that the Clerk’s Office has done an outstanding job in regard to the whole issue of these bills. I have had the opportunity to notice that the staff peruse these things thoroughly. I would feel confident that they will have vetted the amendments submitted by the member and if the staff say the amendments are out of order then I would accept that is so. At the end of the day the important thing is that the Chairperson has sought advice from the Clerk’s Office and it has provided advice. Finally the decision comes down to you Mr Chairperson. If you rule that the amendments are out of order then we have to accept your ruling and that they are out of order. We have already had rulings from the Speaker who has been called back on that very point.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I seek your assurance that you have sought the assurance of the Clerk’s Office that that is the case and that all of the amendments have been read by the Clerk’s Office. My view is that it would be very hard for that assurance to be given considering the time that has been involved.
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: There are a number of amendments in the name of Jacinda Ardern. I have to confess that I have not personally read each of them but I have been told by the Clerk’s Office which has worked through each of the amendments that they are out of order as they are inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 64 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; United Future 1. 
Noes 36 
New Zealand Labour 25; Green Party 7; Maori Party 4. 
Amendment agreed to.
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I have considered the three amendments and I wish to change my ruling to say that not just two amendments are out of order but all three are out of order as being inconsistent with the previous decision. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Rodney Hide to clause 2 be agreed to: 
to omit subclauses (1) to (3) and to substitute the following new subclauses: 
Subject to  
subsections (2) and (3) 
 this Act comes into force 2 days after the date on which it receives the Royal assent. 
Part 2 comes into force on 1 November 2010. 
Sections 27 and 28 
 and subpart 3 of Part 3 come into force on the close of 31 December 2010.
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) 
: 
 My first amendment was to delete the word “reorganisation” and substitute the words “concentration of power”; my second was to delete the word “reorganisation” and substitute the words “democratic deficiency”; and my third was to delete the word “reorganisation” and substitute the words “facilitating the privatisation of council assets”.
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I wonder whether the Hon David Parker could explain for us what his third amendment is. It is a bit confusing with so many amendments.
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Am I to take it that my third amendment is within order notwithstanding the prior vote and that it could be put?
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Barker Rick: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3715] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: As a consequence of that amendment to the Minister’s amendment Sue Kedgley’s amendment is ruled out of order as it is inconsistent with the previous decision. Secondly there are two amendments in the name of the Hon David Parker that are inconsistent with the previous decision and therefore are ruled out of order.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3714] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 68 
New Zealand National 58; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 4; United Future 1. 
Noes 32 
New Zealand Labour 25; Green Party 7. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendment in the name of the Hon Rodney Hide to clause 1 be agreed to: 
to omit “Auckland Reorganisation” and substitute “Tamaki Makaurau Reorganisation”.
Blue Jackie: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Blue Jackie: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3714] 
Dr JACKIE BLUE (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Cosgrove Clayton: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Cosgrove Clayton: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3714] 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
: 
 I think the Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill could be quite properly named the “Rodney Hide - ACT Party Double-cross Their Constituents Bill”. If members recall some time ago in an earlier debate Mr Hide said that he would come into this Parliament and if he was a Minister he would listen to people. Mr Boscawen of course led marches all over the country— 
Hon Steve Chadwick 
: Only Mt Albert. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Yes in Mt Albert. He was calling for people to be listened to over various issues. Yet when those members get into Government no one is listened to. The people of Epsom—Mr Hide’s electorate—apparently are not intelligent enough to be listened to. The people in Heather Roy’s part of the world that she purports to represent—she does not have any constituents—apparently are not intelligent enough to be listened to. 
Hon Steve Chadwick 
: Or to bother. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Or to bother. As other speakers have said it is interesting that once the bill is passed National will take out half-page ads in the paper and have public meetings in order to consult with folk—after the horse has bolted. I think that is pretty reprehensible. This is one of the biggest changes to the biggest city in our country and it will have huge commercial social and logistical impacts for a whole host of New Zealanders. I believe that that is absolutely wrong and I invite Mr Hide and others to reflect on their conduct and on that of the Government throughout this debate.
Goodhew Jo: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Goodhew Jo: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3714] 
JO GOODHEW (National—Rangitata) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Parker David: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3714] 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Am I to take your ruling to mean then that you are reflecting Speaker’s ruling 110/7 which says: “members should have some latitude to summarise and make concluding remarks about the issues they have raised during the committee’s consideration of the bill.”? Of course this bill has been considered for 3 days and although none of the Opposition’s amendments have been accepted a very wide range of issues have been raised many of which deserve to be touched on in this debate. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: The member can be assured that the Chair has that very point weightily in his mind and will consider it very carefully.
Locke Keith: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Locke Keith: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3713] 
KEITH LOCKE (Green) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I was listening very carefully to your criteria for judging the length of this particular part of the debate. In reference to the point you mentioned about the quality of the debate I think this debate—particularly from Labour the Greens and the Maori Party—has been of an extraordinarily high quality. I think that should be taken into consideration because I am sure that that quality will continue. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: Well I am sure that the quality of the debate has been such that the member will take the oral record and replay it on a continuous loop to himself when he is home at the weekends.
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hughes Darren: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3713] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Senior Whip—Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I am sorry that this point of order is slightly late but I have only just come back into the Chamber. 
Hon Member 
: So we suffer. 
Hon DARREN HUGHES 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. It is a new point of order. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I think I know what the member is going to raise. I just say to members that it is helpful if we keep our comments down while a point of order is being raised. I do not mind small muttering but that comment was a bit excessive. 
Hon DARREN HUGHES 
: My point of order is about the stage we are now at in Committee which is the debate on the title and commencement clauses. As you are probably all too painfully aware this bill has not been to a select committee; this is not the first time that has been said by the Opposition. There is a longstanding convention that as a result firstly a slightly wider scope is given to members for their speeches and secondly the debate goes for longer than a normal debate on the title and commencement clauses. I understand that the Government has repeatedly moved closure motions on these clauses so I just wanted to formally raise with you whether you will be taking into account the fact that this bill has not had the select committee scrutiny that it would normally have had. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Rick Barker) 
: I assure the member that the Chair will take all matters into account. It is a long and complex algorithm parts of which will be relevancy repetition the quality of the debate the fact that the bill has not gone to a select committee and the fact that it is a wide-ranging debate. All those elements will be judiciously weighed up and the balance of the argument will be sought. At that point the Chair will decide whether we are going to take closure. I thank the member for his effort.
Woodhouse Michael: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Woodhouse Michael: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3712] 
MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Guy Nathan: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Guy Nathan: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3710] 
NATHAN GUY (Senior Whip—National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Tremain Chris: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tremain Chris: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3709] 
CHRIS TREMAIN (Junior Whip—National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3708] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That progress be reported. 
Ayes 25 
New Zealand Labour 25. 
Noes 75 
New Zealand National 58; Green Party 7; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 4; United Future 1. 
Motion not agreed to.
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3708] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I move  
That the Committee report progress.
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Hide Rodney: Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:654;Page:3704] 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 We are now making rapid progress on this bill and we are up to the title clause and the commencement clause. I am sure that Opposition members will have some further suggestions on what the title might be but the title as it stands and as recommended by the Government is the Local Government (Auckland Reorganisation) Bill which actually captures what the bill is about. 
I know that the commencement date has been contentious because all the way through yesterday and today we heard no less a person than the deputy Leader of the Opposition Annette King tell us that the bill does not come into force until November next year. I am afraid that the Labour Opposition is wrong about that. This bill comes into force on the day after the date on which it receives the Royal assent and I know there has been a bit of confusion about that. 
However Part 2 comes into force on 1 November 2010 because that concerns the Auckland Council. Clauses 27 and 28 in Subpart 3 of Part 3 come into force on the close of 31 October 2010. I commend the title and commencement of this bill to the Committee.