12. Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary—Consultation with Māori and Treaty Settlement RightsRINO TIRIKATENE (Labour—Te Tai Tonga) to the Minister for the EnvironmentKermadec Ocean Sanctuary—Consultation with Māori and Treaty Settlement Rights12. RINO TIRIKATENE (Labour—Te Tai Tonga) to the Minister for the Environment: Does he accept that consultation with Māori was inadequate prior to the announcement of the Kermadec Sanctuary; if so will he now apologise for that mistake?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment): No. I do note that the member's party committed to establishing the sanctuary in 2014 prior to any consultation with iwi or Te Ohu Kaimoana (TOKM).Rino Tirikatene: What compromise is he offering if any that would allow the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary to go ahead without running roughshod over Māori fishing rights?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: If you are going to have an ocean sanctuary it needs to be an area in which there is no mining or fishing for it to have integrity. The challenge we have with the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary and other marine protected areas around New Zealand is not just in terms of quota rights of Māori but quota rights of others. I do not think it is a sustainable position to say that non-Māori fishers who have fished in that area for the last 20 years cannot but Māori who have not been fishing can.Rino Tirikatene: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister what compromise is he offering.Mr SPEAKER: On this occasion—Hon Annette King: He said none.Mr SPEAKER: I do not agree. The question has been addressed but I accept not to your satisfaction. If the member wants to continue with supplementary questions he is welcome to do so but if he would rather move on I am happy to do that as well.Rino Tirikatene: Why has he put the future of the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary at risk by disrespecting Māori taking away Treaty settlement rights giving no recognition of loss and refusing a reasonable compromise?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: In my discussions with TOKM the only Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary legislation that it was prepared to accept was one in which the fishing bans specifically exempted TOKM and enabled it at its choice to be able to fish at any time in the future. In my view that would not be a Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary that had integrity and that is why we were not able to reach agreement. We have said we are going to have ongoing discussions with the Māori Party. In my view it would be the right thing for New Zealand and this Parliament to still establish that sanctuary.Rino Tirikatene: Why does he think Māori property rights are dispensable as he ignored Ngāti Whātua over Crown land last year and is now trying to extinguish Māori fishing rights this year—is it disrespect or just flat out incompetence? What is his problem with Māori?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I would quote from the policy that that member campaigned on in the last election. In that it sets out where Labour would create a world ocean sanctuary—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! I have not been able to hear the answer because of the yelling coming from my left-hand side. It is to cease and the Minister can now give his answer.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The policy that that very member campaigned on at the last election was to provide—Iain Lees-Galloway: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will listen to the point of order but if it is one to suggest that there is no ministerial responsibility the member will be wasting his time. I invite the member before he raises it if that is the point—when you ask a question like that and you effectively accuse a Minister of incompetence which was the word used in the question it gives a very wide licence for the answer. I will hear from Iain Lees-Galloway.Iain Lees-Galloway: So what is the ministerial responsibility for Opposition policy?Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have explained that if the member had only bothered to listen before he raised his point of order.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I seek leave of the House to table Labour's 2014 policy—Mr SPEAKER: No. [Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! If Mr Smith wants to stay for the balance of question time—and I acknowledge that that is not long—when I rise to my feet I expect the Minister to sit down. There has been one other occasion when it happened on a second day and that particular person was ejected from the House. The same rules will apply to Dr Nick Smith. Does the Minister want to give his answer?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: No I was seeking leave Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: No I said I am not prepared to put the leave. That information is publicly available to any member who wants it.Rino Tirikatene: After running yet another Government policy aground will he excuse himself from further negotiations with Te Ohu Kai Moana so that the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary can go ahead or will he go down with the ship?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I have been involved in creating 18 different marine protected areas around New Zealand—for instance in Akaroa. In every one of the ones I have been involved in there have been some bumps and there has been some controversy. I think the reality is that people are reluctant to give up their rights to mine to recreationally fish or to commercially fish and I am equally confident that in this case with time we will find a solution.