Webb DuncanHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Thank you Mr Chair. It's a good moment if I may say so that I come to talk about one of my other Amendment Papers which is Amendment Paper—Tom Rutherford: Tell me what a vegetable wine" is?Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: There's nothing wrong with vegetable wine. Look it's a bit of frivolity now and it is nice that we can do that on a bill like this. I mean I know this is a matter that's very dear [Clears throat and drinks from glass]—excuse me. [Interruption] Excuse me!Tom Rutherford: Oh is that vegetable wine?Hon Member: What's in that glass?Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: That's a little bit of parsley wine there for me to help it go down. But no look if I may talking about the definition of wine I think we've got to be clear here that we are talking about the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act and the definition of "wine" is there set out in section 58 and it makes it quite clear. It talks about two things: wine and grape wine. I think the member will find it's the Wine Act which talks about the alcohol content of wine because the Wine Act is the Act which deals with essentially the quality of the wine and the standards of the wine for export and sale. Whereas it's the sale of liquor Act which deals with the regulation of the sale of wine and other beverages of an alcoholic nature in New Zealand. Now under section 58 any beverage which is made by the fermentation of fruit vegetables or grain is in fact wine. That's what section 58 of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act says. So it's entirely appropriate and possible for this House to adopt my Amendment Paper 32 which simply says to remove the references to grape and make it any wine. That impact would include not only the kind of parsley and pea wine of The Good Life but also perry—that is beverages made from pears—and cider—that is beverages made from the fermentation of apple juice.Helen White: And beer?Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Not beer. Beer has the addition of hops which is separately defined in the Act but I'm just talking about Amendment Paper 32 which simply replaces "grape wine" in various places with "wine". That would make it entirely possible for all of those other beverages other than beer and mead which are separately defined in the legislation to have a cellar door if you like. So I really don't see any difficulty with this proposal because all it does is extend the capturing of this. I must say I have been contacted by a number of people particularly from cideries who are quite affronted—I haven't done a field trip yet—by the fact that down the road—and this is actually in the Wairarapa—wineries are getting a special permission to have these licensing indulgences whereas they are not given the same indulgences. It's putting them on the back foot; they're small artisan cideries.Hon David Parker: They've got the pip.Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: They have got the pip. That was quite nice. Well done! But to get to the core of an issue—we could go on all night.Tom Rutherford: You're a barrel of laughs.CHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono): We don't want any sour grapes though.Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: I just want to reduce the frivolity because this is actually a serious amendment about creating an even playing field. My concern that I expressed in committee to the member was that this was in fact creating an anti-competitive environment where people didn't have the same abilities to compete that grape wine had a competitive advantage by an unequal regulation. We don't want that. This is relaxing the red tape for grape wine and not relaxing it for cider. So let's sort that out. So I would implore the member and the other members of this House to vote in favour of this Amendment Paper 32. If the member doesn't agree with all wine being part of this bill I'd really like to understand why—other than the fact that it's a narrow bill and I thought of it first. So if he could respond to that I'd really appreciate it."