Hipkins Chris: Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill — Second Reading 
Hipkins Chris: Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:667;Page:14585] 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 I am very happy to take a call on the Rugby World Cup 2011 (Empowering) Bill. Like all New Zealanders I am excited about the Rugby World Cup and am looking forward to the event which is coming up around the corner next year. It will be the largest event that New Zealand has ever staged. As a result there are good reasons for many of the rather extraordinary powers that the Minister for the Rugby World Cup is being given in this bill and for why it should be passed through this House to deal with unforeseen circumstances to ensure that things can all be ready and to make the event successful for New Zealand. We are looking at a television audience of close to 4 billion people and 70000 international visitors to New Zealand over that 6-week period. This will be a very big event for New Zealand. 
I want to pick up on some of the issues that were raised during the select committee process. I am absolutely amazed at the comments made by the previous speaker Jacqui Dean. I do not think she could have been at the same select committee meetings that I was at if she is claiming that the Labour Party raised its concern “at the eleventh hour” about the unfettered power this bill gives the Minister Murray McCully. In fact I think we raised that concern at the very first meeting— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: At the first reading. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Yes at the first reading of the bill and at the very first meeting of the Government Administration Committee when we went through the briefing with officials. We asked exactly why it was necessary to give Murray McCully this extraordinary power that is not offered Ministers in almost any other legislation that we could find. We could not find any examples of why it would be necessary. I am quite concerned about that and I am absolutely staggered that Jacqui Dean claimed that we raised that as a concern at the eleventh hour because we raised that concern all the way through. 
Let us be very clear about what this bill does. It gives Murray McCully the ability to overturn decisions made by the judge heading the Rugby World Cup Authority the experienced lawyer on the authority who must have 7 years’ experience and all of the relevant experts. Murray McCully can overturn their decisions. He can say for example that we will demolish a historic building or close a road. He can overturn recommendations that the authority has made and Labour does not think that is right. I guess we would be willing to accept that he could have the power to turn down a recommendation or to put a stop to something. But to proactively approve something that the commission has not recommended— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: He could go with the status quo. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: —he should go with the status quo I should say. He should have the power to overturn recommendations and stick with the status quo but to proactively approve something that has otherwise been declined is not a power that we think the Minister should have. This is not urgent legislation in the sense that we are not dealing with something that has happened; we are dealing with something that may happen in the future so we have the time to work through this and get it right. 
We went through the legislation at the select committee we heard evidence on it at the select committee and we received a lot of advice at the select committee yet there was no advice or evidence put forward to suggest that the Minister should have this power. Let us be really clear about what this is. It is about Murray McCully wanting to have the power to meddle in things and to control things. We are not talking about a Minister who has not got into trouble before for meddling in things; we are talking about a Minister who has a track record in meddling in operational issues in the departments and agencies that he is responsible for. I have no confidence that giving Murray McCully the power that this bill does will lead to responsible use of that power. That is one of the reasons why I think it is very important that in the Committee stage of this debate we pass the amendment being put forward by Trevor Mallard to ensure that the Minister cannot abuse the powers provided under this legislation. 
I will talk a little about the different treatment given to alcohol and gambling because that is something that Trevor Mallard raised in his first reading speech. It would be fair to say that Trevor Mallard and I do not necessarily agree eye to eye on this particular issue. We have a moratorium on new gambling venues in this country. We are bringing in cruise ships to act as temporary hotel accommodation. We want to make sure that they can operate effectively as temporary hotel accommodation when they are parked up at the wharves so that they can provide food alcohol and so forth. But why should they have an exemption that allows them to run gambling facilities when we would not allow that on land? In fact they would be prevented by law from opening a gambling facility without a legislative change to the Gambling Act in Parliament. It is a conscience issue and I think that that should apply to any cruise ships brought in to provide temporary accommodation. Alcohol is a different issue. People can apply for licences for alcohol; they cannot apply— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I think we can debate it for 3 or 4 hours in the Committee stage. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: I am looking forward to an extensive debate with Trevor Mallard about this during the Committee stage—for hours in fact—of this legislation. If Murray McCully is so determined to force through these additional powers that we do not think he should be able to have then we will make sure that this bill is debated line by line and clause by clause all the way through the Committee stage. This will include the provisions on gambling and alcohol where we have some disagreement amongst the members of the Opposition. 
The second part of this legislation to do with gambling is on pokie machines in pubs. I am happy for pubs to be able to extend their liquor licensing hours to work around the Rugby World Cup schedule to make sure that people can enjoy the Rugby World Cup. I do not see how sitting at a pokie machine in any way contributes to the Rugby World Cup experience that we want to offer New Zealanders and those visiting this country. I see no justification for saying that we should extend the hours that the pokie parlours attached to pubs are open in order to facilitate a successful Rugby World Cup event. This bill does not allow those venues operating pokie machines to use their special Rugby World Cup liquor licences to extend the hours that they can have pokie machines operating. If their hours are extended through their special licences they will have to close off the pokie machines for those hours that they would not otherwise be open. 
If they would already be open for the period of time that the matches are taking place and so on then they will be able to have the pokie machines operating. If there is a special licence applying during that period of time then they would have to shut down the pokie machines. That is something that I totally agree with. It is about ensuring that people can enjoy the Rugby World Cup; it is not about extending the opportunities for people to gamble. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: He’s afraid of the booze because it’s his vice. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: I am quite comfortable with people being able to have an extra drink. It is perfectly all right for people to grab a pint to stand there watching the big screen to watch the game and to enjoy the Rugby World Cup experience that we want people to have. I do not see that gambling is necessarily part of that. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What about gambling on the next try? What about the TAB? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: This bill does not impact on the TAB at all. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What about the TAB at the pub? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: No it does not impact on the TAB in the pub but maybe that is something we should clarify during the Committee stage. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: With half a dozen amendments. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Yes I think that we might look at some amendments on that during the Committee stage. Hopefully the Minister will take some calls on that during the Committee stage of the bill so that we can clarify whether the amendments we made at the select committee will impact on the ability of the TAB operating in the pubs to take bets during that period of time. I am pretty sure that we have restricted only class 4 gambling in pubs but we should double-check and debate it thoroughly to make sure that if there has been an unintended change to the ability of the TAB to operate in pubs we deal with that during the Committee stage. There may be some further amendments. 
Overall the intention of this bill is good. It is to make sure that the Rugby World Cup a big event for New Zealand is successful. The majority of the bill is supported by the Opposition. There is one point that we are sticking on and that is whether the Minister should have these extraordinary powers that no other Minister has and no other law appears to offer. Frankly I do not trust that the Minister would exercise those powers responsibly. We are putting forward an amendment that would stop the Minister having that power. If the Government agrees to support that amendment then the Opposition will support the bill progressing through its remaining stages. We will not vote for it on its second reading because the Government has indicated that it will not support the amendment being brought forward; therefore we are uncomfortable with the powers that the Minister is being offered. 
Whether this bill goes through with wide party support across Parliament is a matter for the Government to determine. It can support the amendment that Trevor Mallard has put forward and get wide-ranging support through Parliament or it can insist that Murray McCully has these extraordinary powers conferred upon him and it will not be supported by the Opposition. The choice is now over to the Government.