Ryall Tony: Coroners Bill — First Reading 
Ryall Tony: Coroners Bill — First Reading 
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Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay Of Plenty) 
: 
 Maybe the Minister for Courts can advise by way of interjection which select committee he is referring the bill to. 
Hon Rick Barker 
: The Justice and Electoral Committee. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: Being the first Opposition speaker on this bill—my colleague Mrs Collins will be talking about a number of more technical matters associated with it—I want to draw to the House’s attention a matter associated with coronial services in New Zealand and that is the critical shortage of forensic pathologists. There is a critical shortage of pathologists who undertake forensic pathology work and who deal with coronial work nationwide. 
The Ministry of Justice has consulted widely on establishing a forensic pathology group in New Zealand but nothing has happened from the Government. Earlier this year it was reported that a Budget initiative was being worked on but the Budget this year was absolutely silent on any issue dealing with forensic pathology services. 
Forensic pathologists are the people who conduct the quite in-depth autopsies that for example have been popularised by American television programmes which predominantly are on TV3. The problem we are currently seeing in the system is a significant shortage of forensic pathologists in the country. There are retention and recruitment problems remuneration problems and an inability to attract overseas pathologists. Earlier this year there was no permanent forensic pathology coverage south of Auckland and today only five six or seven forensic pathologists are available for the whole country. Currently the coroner-directed pathology services in New Zealand are organised by the Ministry of Justice. It is vital that this Government moves to restore the capacity for forensic pathology in New Zealand. We need certainty in those services to ensure that we have a competent criminal justice system and coronial service system in New Zealand. Unfortunately I am sure there are no financial benefits in any move but it is something that needs to be done. 
I understand that the Government has been warned that public confidence in coronial services in New Zealand is at risk because of the shortage of forensic pathologists. Would the Minister like to confirm that? The Minister will not say anything but I am 100 percent certain that the Government has been warned that public confidence in our coronial services is at risk because of the shortage of forensic pathologists. 
I will look at some of those risks. The public must be confident that suspicious deaths and homicides can be adequately investigated by skilled staff. The police need to know and coronial investigations may be severely compromised by the significant delays from not having enough forensic pathologists. There is a serious risk that the Government may have to contract in overseas pathologists at tremendous cost because of the shortage of forensic pathologists in New Zealand. 
I do not think there is any doubt that New Zealand needs a coordinated and structured system with good recruitment retention training and quality standards for forensic pathologists. Such a move would certainly assist the New Zealand Police to deal with those matters. So I say to the Government that passing the Coroners Bill is fine but one of the fundamental jobs of coroners is to determine the nature of death and to do that they need top-quality forensic pathologists. So it is urgent in my view that police and coronial investigations are supported by upgraded forensic pathology services in New Zealand. 
When I first raised this matter in February this year the Government dismissed my concerns on the basis that it was preparing a Budget bid. A Budget proposal reportedly had been put to the Government that would ensure there would be enough people and resources to keep it that way. Well I have looked through the Budget documents and there was not one vote of additional money to address what has been described as a critical shortage of forensic pathologists in New Zealand. At that time a forensic pathologist in New Zealand said that the service was short of staff the overall funding was deficient and there was no allocation to train people properly. He said that until we know for sure that money is granted in the Budget there is not much point in claiming things are fixed. 
So the National Party in Opposition will support the progress of the Coroners Bill. My colleague Mrs Collins the National Party’s effective health spokesperson will be spending some time looking at some of the more complex detail associated with this bill and at the impact that some of the issues requiring cultural awareness may have on coroner services in New Zealand. But in this lead speech we want to highlight to the Government that there is no point in reforming coroner services alone when there is a critical shortage of forensic pathologists in New Zealand. 
We understand that the Government has been warned there are significant risks associated with this lack of capacity. Those risks are around public confidence that unexplained deaths and homicides can be appropriately investigated and the police and coroners having a timely response in their investigations. There is also the risk of the cost of bringing in expensive overseas forensic pathologists to deal with deaths in New Zealand. This is a time when a Government that says there is not enough money for tax relief to reward hard-working New Zealanders should realise that there must be enough money to provide competent forensic pathology services in New Zealand. 
I would like a Minister to take the next call on behalf of the Government to advise the House whether the Government has been warned of the critical shortage of forensic pathologists and whether a Budget bid was put to the Government by the Ministry of Justice. We know that the bid must have been declined because there was no mention of it in the Budget documents. We ask what is going to be done about that. 
We know that the latest skills shortage list put out by the Immigration Service makes it clear that pathologists are on the list. The list came out on 13 December and we are still trying to get some confirmation of further details on the numbers. However it is clear that the Government’s skills shortage list which came out on 13 December—very recently—is an admission that there is a shortage of pathologists. Frankly I do not think the Government putting pathologists on a list of occupations that will be given priority in terms of immigration will fix the problem which it was alerted to earlier this year. We know that a Budget bid was being prepared but there is no mention of it in the official documents— 
Hon Annette King 
: This is tedious repetition. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: It may be repetition to the Minister with the bouffant hairdo but it is important the Government knows that this is an important issue. 
This Minister of Health who is happy to have women with breast cancer go to Australia for treatment because she cannot get the money has a big problem. This woman Minister of Health is prepared to let women languish on cancer treatment waiting lists then send them to Australia for treatment. What sort of caring woman Minister of Health is she? I wonder whether that is the reason she will not be the Minister of Health on Monday. The Government which is dominated by women is prepared to let other women languish on breast cancer treatment waiting lists— 
Hon Annette King 
: You wouldn’t know what you are talking about. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I tell the Minister to come and talk to the people in my electorate who were forced to go to Australia forced to seek private treatment because the Government would not address the issue. 
I am alerting this Minister of Health—just for another 3 days—that there is a critical shortage of forensic pathologists in this country. She knows about it and she should do something about it.