Yule LawrenceLAWRENCE YULE (National—Tukituki): The criminalisation of cartel behaviour so early on in this new Government's past 90-day period is really an indictment on the lack of thought vision and pre-prepared legislation. Nine years it's taken. Nine years the Government had to sort out what it was going to do when it got in power and tonight we're discussing a minute piece of information. The current regime offers $10 million worth of fines if it's a civil matter and actually it's working and I'm not aware of any significant movement in the media to actually toughen down on cartels. I think what's happening with this Government is actually having a chilling impact on business and that's because the combination of a whole lot of things is forcing businesses to lose confidence. The loss of the 90-day trial period changes in and toughening of immigration other changes in the employment relations field—they actually all impact on business confidence.Hon Member: Cartels.LAWRENCE YULE: So this bill—on the cartels—actually in my view has no robust case or problem to solve behind it.I go to the regulatory impact report that was given last time. It says One [of the concerns raised by submitters] was that even within large seemingly well-resourced businesses sales people mid-level managers and senior managers may already be reluctant to engage in pro-competitive [behaviour]". In the world I'm in and in some of my previous roles actually working together is a really good thing. We are a small country. We are a small country and sometimes the big model of competition actually works against consumers and I think this is one of those cases.We have a problem—an alleged problem—that can't be quantified and is not supported by Treasury or the Productivity Commission yet here we are probably about 120 days in now on our 20th National Party bill since the House began because this Government does not have enough of its own stuff. What this is about is slow incremental but damaging change to our businesses. It's all very well to be ideological about sending people to jail for cartel-like behaviour but actually for most people this will end up having a chilling impact just like health and safety did and just like changes to employment relations and that is why business confidence is slipping. You guys don't seem to get it but out in the real world that's what people are telling me.Every time you change a law in this House you have to say what the value of that change is—and there may be some laudable goals—and what the cost is of that change in terms of time and money and whether it's worth it. And in this case I simply don't think it's worth it other than to fill up the business agenda of this House. Every time we do something like this it's a balance and the balance in my view is the balance between collaboration and competition. Competition actually by its very nature is something that this side of the House strongly supports—Kieran McAnulty: Not when you're talking about the Dairy Industry Restructuring Bill though Yule. You're not fussed on competition then are you?LAWRENCE YULE: —but when you don't have scale when you don't have unique qualities that you can share in a competitive way then it's actually better to collaborate. Mr McAnulty you'll know that from your previous role.So while previous members on the other side have been focused on the cost to customers actually there can often be a cost to people if you don't collaborate. So I think the focus of this bill is wrong. It's simply to fill up the agenda when actually there isn't a major problem. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker."