McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Question Time 
McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Question Time 
[Volume:610;Page:7428] 
3.  
Hon MURRAY McCULLY (NZ National—East Coast Bays) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: Is she aware as reported in the  
New Zealand Herald 
 that the Ombudsman had requested from New Zealand Immigration Service officials material which should have included the memorandum which contained the words “Everyone had agreed to lie in unison” and that New Zealand Immigration Service officials denied to the Ombudsman the existence of such material; if so how does she explain these actions? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 I am advised that the Ombudsman responded to a complaint from Sarah Boyle office of the Leader of the Opposition that the New Zealand Immigration Service had declined to release any information on the individual concerned under sections 6(a) 6(d) and 18(c) of the Official Information Act. I can confirm that the Secretary of Labour will be inquiring into the matter. However preliminary inquiries have identified that as there was more than one person dealing with the matter—from the Office of the Ombudsmen and from the New Zealand Immigration Service—a communication breakdown could explain the different answers. However I am awaiting a full report. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Does the Minister accept that if both Mr Smith and Mr Lockhart did mislead the Ombudsman about the existence of that memorandum this would be a most serious matter and might very fully explain why Mr Smith wrote in his memo: “Everyone had agreed to lie in unison”? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: My initial advice on this matter is that they were asked different questions that Mr Smith in fact never had any direct dealings with the Ombudsman and that in fact it was done through a third party who had not prepared the media log. There is the ability in this situation for an explanation to arise out of the inquiry. I would like to wait until the inquiry has completed its work before I commented on it and I hope that that member is prepared to apologise if he has attacked the reputations of people unreasonably. 
Deborah Coddington 
: On what date did she first learn that Mr Ian Smith had written to the Ombudsman stating that he had no record of correspondence or memoranda that commented on the Zaoui case? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: There is no such date because I am not aware that Mr Smith wrote directly to the Ombudsman. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Are these words from the letter signed by Mel Smith Ombudsman correct: “I subsequently received advice from Mr Ian Smith” —of the Immigration Service—“that he has no record of any such information nor is he able to recall any information of this nature.” and is she disputing those words signed by the Ombudsman? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: As I said to the  
New Zealand Herald 
 reporter last night it depends what question he was asked. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Is she aware that the Ombudsman’s officials interviewed Mr Smith on this matter and that the Ombudsman Mr Smith himself spoke to Mr Smith who is the spokesperson for her ministry and that it was on the basis of specific assurances in the face of persistent Opposition requests that Mr Smith Ombudsman wrote saying that Mr Ian Smith had no record of such information and could not recall such information? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: That is the subject of the inquiry. But my advice is that those investigations were conducted by email and in fact the direct email link is with another member of staff from the New Zealand Immigration Service who attached an email from Ian Smith. It depends on what Mr Smith was asked to provide.