Loheni AgnesAGNES LOHENI (National): Thank you very much Mr Chair. I'd just like to comment on some of the Minister's remarks in regard to Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 460 in my name. I mean it's clear to me in the reading of section 11 which I notice that the Minister never refers to the actual parts that I've raised in this bill on section 11 on what is not defined what is now not accountable. And it is actually in my SOP that I am striving to find just that little bit of recognition—just a small semblance of recognition for some rights of the unborn child which makes up the two parts of what happens: the two people that are involved in an abortion. That is what I'm seeking to get some little balance on because it is totally out of kilter in this bill—totally out of kilter. All the rights now are with one party and I've said to the Minister Andrew Little that in the wording—and I think I've been very very clear in the wording—about why I believe that this will lead to abortion on demand. He's very quick to dismiss that. Just Oh this is just ridiculous." but actually he doesn't actually come back and argue the points that I have made into section 11 and the new criteria in this bill—they are so broad as to be meaningless and I stand by what I say. So that's what I'm trying to do: try and get some little semblance of recognition which has been totally wiped out in this bill.I won't comment any more on that part. I'd just like to make some comments in regard to member Jan Logie's SOP—her SOP 325—which is ultimately to go to option A. And I noticed one of the comments raised was that this was the option that was most supported by health practitioners. So is that the suggestion by the member—that health practitioners should be the legislators for this bill? Because I'm pretty sure that the member was in the same committee with me where there were over 25000 submissions on this bill of which over 91 percent were opposed. The member also stated and it's been heard before in the Chamber a couple of times today "wanted pregnancies"—"Every pregnancy post - 20 weeks is a wanted pregnancy." Well we would like that to be the case but actually we know as legislators that we have to provide a law to account for situations where that is not the case because I'm not a mind reader and I'm pretty sure the Minister's not a mind reader either.So we have—in the current law and I've heard this before—very rare and exceptional circumstances for abortions post - 20 weeks. We have a law now—the current law now allows for those very rare and exceptional circumstances. So I have laid claim—and I've put in an SOP here—to make sure that we leave it; to make sure that it is restricted to those very rare and special circumstances and that's what's in my SOP.The other one that I'd like to comment on is that the member continues to say in this House that one in four women have abortions. That is completely false—that is completely false. Statistics New Zealand—very recent data—have confirmed that for every 1000 women aged between 15 and 44 between 13 and 21 of them have had an abortion that year and over the last five years that has averaged at just under 14 abortions per 1000 women. There is another study by the University of Auckland which found that it was one in 10 women. So even if you take that number—that one in 10—it is completely out of the ballpark and is completely wrong and misleading.I would just like to quickly in my short time remaining raise that I do have an SOP around fetal pain. This is around trying to find some humane treatment of those unborn babies post - 20 weeks."