Coleman Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Coleman Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:639;Page:9676] 
6.  
Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National—Northcote) 
 to the  
Minister of Broadcasting 
: Does he believe Television New Zealand is adequately fulfilling its charter obligation to ensure the presence of a significant Maori voice? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
 on behalf of the  
Minister of Broadcasting 
: Television New Zealand (TVNZ) has two obligations under its charter. One is to feature Maori programmes and one to ensure Maori participation in programmes and planning. Maori programme is represented by programmes like  
Eye to Eye with Willie Jackson 
  
Marae 
  
Te Karere 
  
Mai Time 
 and  
Waka Huia 
 as well as coverage of specific events like Dame Te Ata’s tangi. 
Hon Bill English 
: Give us the whole list. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Oh there speaks Southland. These efforts will be rewarded by awards for Maori programmes high ratings of Maori programmes and strong popularity of TVNZ channels amongst Maori viewers. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Does  
Game of Two Halves 
 count as ensuring the presence of a significant Maori voice on television and if he believes that it does is not that really patronising Maori who appear on the programme because it implies they are there to fulfil a charter requirement when the reality is that their race is completely irrelevant to their presence on the screen? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I said that there are two charter elements. One is Maori programmes and one is to ensure Maori participation in programmes and planning. It is significant that yesterday when one National Party spokesperson was asked to articulate her views the only example she came up with was indeed  
Game of Two Halves 
. 
Pita Paraone 
: Does the Minister believe that rather than just focusing on the quantity of programmes that present a Maori perspective TVNZ should also focus on the quality and appropriateness of those programmes to ensure a Maori perspective; if not why not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I agree with that. It is interesting that 19 of the top 20 programmes on television are in fact shown by TVNZ. 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: How can TVNZ claim that programmes like  
Police Ten-7 
 and  
Lockdown— 
programmes that portray negative stereotypes of Maori as underachievers and criminals—fulfil its charter obligation to promote Maori language and culture? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: My understanding is that Mr Ellis was responding in relation to the Maori participation element not the Maori programme. I think he accepts that the example he chose was an infelicitous one. I am sure that if it was suggested that TVNZ was deliberately removing Maori criminals from  
Police Ten-7 
 the National Party would be up in arms about that. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Was he surprised by Mr Ellis’ statement yesterday when he sought to justify the ludicrous placement of  
Te Karere 
 at a time when Maori are not watching it by the statement: “At the end of the day we are a commercial broadcaster.” and does he agree that this suggests the chief executive has become so obsessed with returning a profit that he has forgotten that TVNZ is actually a public service broadcaster with substantial taxpayer funding and obligations to ensure a significant Maori voice? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: TVNZ obviously operates its own decisions with regard to the placement of programming. I think we can probably all find programmes that we wish were not shown at the times they are shown either because we wish we did not have to watch them or because we wish we could actually see them when we are able to. 
Sue Kedgley 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I asked the Minister a very specific question and he has not even attempted to answer it. I asked whether he was surprised by Mr Ellis’ comment that TVNZ was basically simply a commercial broadcaster. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I listened to the member’s question. It was a very long question that involved several thoughts. As the member knows with all supplementary questions the Minister is required to respond to only one of them and the Minister did on that occasion. I suggest to all members that they keep their questions quite specific and quite short. 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: Was it a deliberate decision by TVNZ to include Maori individuals in shows like  
Dancing with the Stars 
  
Game of Two Halves 
  
Location LocationLocation 
 and so on to fulfil charter obligations; if so how can such a distasteful policy be condoned by the Minister and could this be why the Prime Minister reportedly said today: “I cannot see that one would count the programmes he mentioned as contributing to Maori perspectives on television. I think Rick Ellis would be best to rethink that one.”? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I emphasise again there are two different obligations. One is in terms of Maori programming which is quite specific. 
Hon Member 
: Just answer the question. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am answering the question. One is in terms of Maori participation. That of course gets us into a classic “killed if you do and killed if you don’t” kind of argument. If one has Maori represented then presumably the argument from some is that that is some kind of apartheid. If one does not have Maori represented then the argument is that the programme is unrepresentative. I do not regard having particular Maori on  
Dancing with the Stars  
as fulfilling charter obligations. I am not convinced that  
Dancing with the Stars 
 fulfils charter obligations any more than having Rodney Hide on  
Dancing with the Stars  
is representing a minority of people who cannot dance. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Minister concur with the view of TVNZ’s chief executive that effectively Maori content on local programming means having someone with a brown face on it or does he agree with the Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples who said that just having someone on a programme saying “Kia ora bro” does not make it a Maori programme? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I would probably agree more with Dr Sharples on that but I would point out that Mr Ellis was answering in the context of participation not Maori programmes. It is unfair to translate his answer across into the Maori programming element where TVNZ does a reasonably significant amount of Maori programmes. But clearly tokenism of the sort that the member is referring to does not meet any kinds of obligations. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Does the Minister agree that there is a major contradiction if he says he does not believe that  
Dancing with the Stars  
fulfils charter obligations when the chief executive of TVNZ repeatedly says it does? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am entitled to my views and he is entitled to his. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Given all the speculation as to what does constitute a charter programme and whether  
Dancing with the Stars 
 and  
Police Ten-7 
 are charter programming does he not think it is high time if he expects New Zealanders to continue to fund charter programmes that we actually came up with a definition and clear criteria as to what constitutes a charter programme and what does not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No I do not for a very simple reason. I believe that some broad definition is appropriate but once we try to become highly specific then the Government is trying to direct TVNZ about specific programming and there is a name for States that run that kind of system. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Does the Minister agree with Rick Ellis when he said on Radio New Zealand National earlier today that this debate flows from a general lack of specificity around charter measurements; and why has the Minister spent the last 5 years championing a charter for TVNZ that is basically meaningless because it is completely non-specific and contains no solid criteria against which its implementation can be measured? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The measurements are being reviewed this year. [ 
Interruption 
] In fact if the member had read Mr Ellis’ interview he would know that because Mr Ellis himself said that in I think about the sentence before the one that he was quoting. It is always good to do one’s own work rather than rely on one’s research unit when asking questions. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Why is it that we can never get Minister Maharey to front up when things get a bit sticky in broadcasting and has not this whole sorry episode really brought matters to a head in broadcasting and proved that the Minister’s charter is a joke because under the charter TVNZ can basically get away with anything; and is not broadcasting policy just another area where this Minister has failed to deliver just like the National Certificate of Educational Achievement and just like 20 free hours? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The Minister is delivering on 20 free hours but more important 19 of the top 20 programmes on television are on TVNZ.