Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:625;Page:20312] 
6.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she still have confidence in her Minister of Immigration; if so why? [ 
Interruption 
] 
I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You will have observed that when a member is asking a question no member may speak—because that is what you kicked me out of the House for just recently. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: You had finished asking the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: But I am very interested to know what that failed useless Minister said. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I listened carefully. The member had finished asking his question. It was then that a comment was made by the Minister. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister) 
 on behalf of the 
 Prime Minister 
: Yes because he is still a hard-working and conscientious Minister. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Prime Minister recall saying the same thing about the previous Minister of Immigration on a regular basis; and if any of those assurances have any merit what on earth is Isaac Meti Yosef Jago who is residing in Auckland and who arrived as a refugee on 6 April 2000 having come from Iraq where he was alleged to have been one of Saddam Hussein’s elite force of palace guards doing in this country? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: If the member would now like to give us all the names and details that he has they will be taken up with the review team. However so far he has failed to find anybody who is a security risk. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If the Prime Minister does not think that the Minister whom I named in the House the other day is a security risk and that she knows more than for example Dr Munjid Umara the President of the Auckland Refugee Council who said of this man that: “It opens the minds of all people to take care about which people can come to New Zealand and seek for asylum or refugee status. He”—that is Saddam Hussein’s former Minister of Agriculture—“should have no place here in New Zealand.”; and why does the Minister not go and tell the Kurds that? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: That is why his visitor permit has been revoked. But there is a difference between being undesirable and being a security risk. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that there is a register of names in respect of Zimbabwe and Myanmar; and if that is true is there a similar register of names for undesirables from Iraq—yes or no? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am advised that the answer is no but that matter is being looked into. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Of the 400 people who came here with false and misleading documentation or who destroyed the documentation after they arrived who the Minister of Immigration said were missing how many has the department since found; and is this not the image of a leaderless incompetent Government with an incompetent Minister? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No it is not. A large number of those people have been granted refugee status. Another large number of them have left New Zealand. But of course we have to be extraordinarily careful here in terms of distinguishing between people who are undesirable and people who are simply security risks. There is a distinct difference. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If the Government does not know who is here how does it assess the criteria of a security risk? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: In terms of those entering the nation and their names frequently they will be checked by the SIS in terms of a security check. But if they are not a security risk there is no reason for the SIS to draw any matter to the attention of the Immigration Service under the present rules. The department is working on how to define better the notion of undesirable but it is a very difficult and subjective matter. 
Ron Mark 
: Rubbish! 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member may think it is rubbish. I think he is undesirable. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Prime Minister have any confidence in a Minister who yesterday left an official to brief the media while he could not be seen for dust and small pebbles such is his embarrassment? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The chief official involved in immigration took charge of the media on that particular occasion because it was operational and related to how the department operates its estimates. I want to say one other thing. This member has for days got away with the notion that the Government should know where every visitor to this country is within the country. The only countries that can do that are called police States. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Does the Prime Minister stand by her statement to the House on Tuesday that since last week’s allegations by Mr Peters “extensive checks” had been undertaken by immigration officials; and can she advise the House in light of information now in the public arena whether it is her conclusion that those checks were not carried out competently or not carried out all? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The review is ongoing and clearly there is more work to be done in that respect. 
Keith Locke 
: Can the Minister assure us that the new visa-checking system will not result in extra delays in issuing visitor visas bearing in mind the American problem of tourists staying away in droves because of delays and overly intrusive checks and that international conferences are being shifted to other countries because it cannot be guaranteed that delegates will get a visitor visa on time? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member makes a very important point. There is something like 2 million-odd tourists coming to this country each year— 
Ron Mark 
: Whose fault is that? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The Government regards 2 million tourists coming to the country as a success rather than a fault. That is the difference between us and New Zealand First on these matters. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is it to be the assumption of the public that the way to stop potential terrorists and undesirables in this country is to encourage them to wear burkas and carry Armalites because otherwise the surveillance and scrutinising process will not work? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No. If they came in wearing burkas and carrying Armalites we might suspect that they were New Zealand First moles. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. With respect the Government may think that this is a laughing matter but nobody in the Western World does. Nobody with whom we have a responsibility to cooperate does. I am asking the Prime Minister’s agent today to get up and answer the question properly. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Further border control in any democracy is difficult because there is a balance between the democratic right of people to move—the notion that we are not a police State—and keeping out people who are undesirable and are security threats. The member’s position is simple: nobody should be allowed into the country.