Goudie Sandra: Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons) Amendment Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Third Reading 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Goudie Sandra: Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons) Amendment Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Third Reading 
[Sitting date: 24 November 2009. Volume:659;Page:8085. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
SANDRA GOUDIE (National—Coromandel) 
: 
 After listening to the Opposition one would think that the end was nigh. I just cannot believe how overblown it is making this whole issue. I want to make a few comments and I will quote from a report around contestability. There are three things I want to talk about. One is the Australian study comparing two new-generation public sector prisons where the operating arrangements in the industrial award have been negotiated by the state Government under an explicit threat of market testing with two old-style prisons. 
Grant Robertson 
: Take it slowly Sandra. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: Well there are three quotes here so it could take a while. I would be surprised if the Opposition members are listening actually even though they need to learn a bit. 
Hon Member 
: They don’t understand Sandra. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: Well that is the problem and I guess this issue is mostly around union protectionism really. The bottom line is that competition actually does work. 
The Australian report states: “The authors of the study compared overtime and sick leave which were regarded as major sources of inefficiency in the traditional prison estate and found significant improvements. To our knowledge this is the only study that has explicitly explored the efficiency gains from threatened competition.” Well that is what Labour members do not like. They cannot stand competition—the idea that somebody might make one dollar more than somebody else. They cannot stand that. They would rather have inefficiency because they cannot stand competition. They cannot stand the fact that competition generates innovation and new ideas and a new way of exploring how to do things. 
The report goes on to state: “One of the most significant impacts of introducing competition into custodial services has been to force prison managers to explore new service designs and management regimes. … A national survey of 65 private correctional institutions across the United States … found that on average staffing levels were … lower … Moreover where public prison operators were exposed to competition this was one of the most common ways in which they strove to reduce their costs.” Then it goes on to say—and this is the final quote I will use—“Competition has played an important role in the adoption of innovative new approaches to prison management”. Is the Opposition listening to this? 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: No. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: Well the Opposition members should listen because time and time again they miss the point. 
Jonathan Young 
: It’s all about ideology. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: That is right—it is all about ideology. It is not about the reality of the situation. The Opposition is driven solely by its ideology and its love of unions. The Opposition wants to protect union members’ jobs and make sure they are secure. Competition does bring in new ideas and new approaches to prison management and brings the dissemination of best practice across both the public and private sectors. The two sectors actually benefit each other. 
The last argument put forward by Ms Dalziel was about the lack of monitoring and accountability. Well the fact is that there is a tonne of it in the bill as the Opposition members will see if they look at it. Some of that monitoring and accountability was generated through good discussion from the members of the Law and Order Committee. There were times when we had reached consensus on some of the ways forward but there were other times of course when we could not possibly do so because the ideology was a bit of a roadblock. There is plenty of monitoring and accountability. A monitor is to be appointed for each contract prison and the chief executive can appoint further monitors for different and particular purposes. There are also assistant monitors. So there are primary monitors monitors for particular purposes and we also have assistant monitors. We actually have three levels of monitoring. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: It’s a land of opportunity this country. 
SANDRA GOUDIE 
: Just how much oversight does this Opposition—this Labour Opposition; the nanny State party—need? The Labour members just cannot get away from the fact that they are not happy unless they have a whole heap of monitors. [ 
Interruption 
] That is absolutely right; they do not trust anyone. 
What is the next Opposition argument? The next argument is that it is wrong that the running of prisons should offer the potential to make a profit. Well for goodness’ sake! If it were not for a bit of profit we would not survive in the economic world today. The Opposition members just do not understand business. They do not understand how to make a buck and we can understand why that is the case.