Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10770] 
10.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: What specific steps did he or his office take last week to check whether the art teacher who posted hard-core pornographic pictures of himself and two women on internet sex sites with messages for girls “the younger the better” was not working in any capacity in any school which led him to make the categorical statements that “this person is not teaching anywhere right now.” and that he “is not employed at any school.”? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister for Tertiary Education) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Education 
: The Minister said last week that he had checked with the Teachers Council. More specifically his office rang the Teachers Council which advised that the person’s practising certificate had lapsed so he could not legally teach. After making inquiries the Teachers Council also advised the Minister’s office that the person was not employed at any school. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister of Education confirm that despite his assurances last week this teacher taught in a New Zealand secondary school for around 10 days over a 3-week period and stopped teaching only the week before last? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No. The Minister’s statement was correct according to the knowledge he had at the time from the Teachers Council. [ 
Interruption 
] I am sure that for members opposite that is some form of conspiracy but I think the member asking the question actually wants to investigate the issue seriously. The member is quite correct: the person was involved in teaching subsequently and that situation is leading obviously to a review of the guidelines. The teaching appears to have been illegal and the Teachers Council is investigating the breach. If proven it will issue a warning that he has breached the Education Act 1989 and taught illegally. That offence is punishable by a fine of up to $5000 on both the school and the illegal teacher. 
Moana Mackey 
: What action has been taken to ensure that no similar case occurs in which a teacher is only censored and not deregistered due to flaws in the council’s disciplinary guidelines? 
Paula Bennett 
: He’s still teaching! 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No he is not now actually. The Teachers Council has reviewed its guidelines as a matter of urgency. The council board is this afternoon considering a proposal to revise the guidelines to ensure that no improper activity can fall through the cracks because it is not covered by any specific criterion which appears to have been the problem in this case. The revised criteria will be formally drafted and go out for early public consultation. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Would the Minister of Education give a categorical assurance to this House that notwithstanding his limited powers in matters relating to the employment of teachers he would use all his influence to ensure that someone who would engage in such behaviours as described in the primary question could never again teach within a New Zealand school or indeed in any school worldwide? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am sure the Minister would use whatever powers he can in that regard. I would go further than that and say that if it becomes clear that the powers that are available are completely insufficient in that respect then clearly we would need to look at strengthening those powers to prevent a recurrence of this kind of situation which is totally unacceptable. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister confirm that there is actually nothing to stop this teacher from teaching in another classroom whether as a reliever as he was until last week or ultimately as a permanent staff member; that a principal looking to recruit this teacher would have no idea what the censure was for; and that basically the Teachers Council as set up by his Government is doing nothing to ensure a high standard of professionalism of our teachers when faced with this kind of situation? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No I do not think I would agree with the member in that regard. Any person whose practising certificate has lapsed can teach for only up to 10 additional teaching days from that point—and this person has already taught for those 10 additional days—even in any circumstance in which that teaching might have been legal. A school I believe should check to make sure the person has a practising certificate. That can be done I understand on the Teachers Council website. If something is wrong with its system we need to follow up on that to make sure the information that goes up goes up quickly and there no delays. I am not aware of any problem in that regard but I am happy to listen to the member further. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister confirm that the Minister of Education who stood in the House last week and denied that this teacher was working in a school—only for us to then find out that this teacher has been teaching New Zealand kids in a classroom—and who makes such categorical statements has no ability to ensure that this teacher will not be teaching in a school next week and has no ability to ensure that the Teachers Council will deny registration and that actually the Teachers Council is worried that it will have to re-register this guy because of a technicality? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I cannot comment on that very final point. I do not have sufficient information in front of me and I welcome anything the member may be able to give me about it. On the other point she made no I do not agree with that. The practising certificate has lapsed and for that person now to try to teach would be illegal. Indeed it would be illegal for the school to employ such a teacher. 
Katherine Rich 
: Why did the Minister of Education last week say this teacher was not teaching when in fact he was; surely the Minister was not relying on the technical argument that last week was the school holidays and therefore there were no classes? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No not at all. As I explained in the primary answer inquires were made of the Teachers Council which advised the Minister’s office that this person was not employed at any school. At the end of the day Ministers have to— 
Katherine Rich 
: He was. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: In the school holidays one is still employed. Ministers have to rely upon the information they are given. That information was clearly inadequate.