Samuels Dover: Treaty of Waitangi (Removal of Conflict of Interest) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
Samuels Dover: Treaty of Waitangi (Removal of Conflict of Interest) Amendment Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:640;Page:10297] 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS (Minister of State) 
: 
A e tu ana au ki te whakautu i etahi o nga panui a taku whanaunga a Hone Harawira. E penei ana waku whakaaro. Mai ra ano harakau te iwi tauiwi i haramai ki te korero mo a ratou awangawanga mo tenei take engari te nuinga o nga reo e haere mai ana ki te korero ko te iwi Maori. 
[ 
I rise to respond to some of the statements made by my relation Hone Harawira. My thoughts are as follows. Since the bill’s gestation non-Maori have never come to express their concerns about it. The majority have been Maori. 
] 
Let me say— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: The member’s interpretation—are you interpreting this? 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: I am translating this. Let me say that the response to this matter has not been because of tauiwi or Pakeha concern about perceived conflicts of interest but because of concern from the enormous number of Maori people who see that sitting on the Maori Land Court and on the tribunal at the same time is clearly a conflict of interest in terms of jurisdiction. 
Hone Harawira 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. That is clearly not what the member said in Maori. In his very first sentence he said: “I stand to respond to some of the issues raised by Hone Harawira.” He has not even mentioned that. He is now talking about a whole raft of other things that are not a direct translation of what he said in Maori. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: I seek an assurance from the member. I thought that he had done his interpretation then moved on with his speech. Can I have an assurance from the member about that? 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: That is correct Madam Assistant Speaker. 
I want to make it clear that I support Pita Paraone’s bill before the House because very clearly many Maori organisations and iwi have expressed their concern. I am disappointed in the Maori Party’s position on this matter. If it were a Pakeha judge with jurisdiction in the District Court who was sitting on a similar tribunal in another court the Maori Party would be jumping up and down doing the haka and talking about conflicts of interest. It has nothing to do with the colour of the skin of the judge or the tribunal member. It has nothing to do with whether the judge is Maori or Pakeha; it has something to do with perceived conflicts of interest. That is really at the heart of the issue because it has been raised over many many years not by Pakeha but by Maori. Maori see this very clearly as a conflict of interest situation. 
This bill removes that perceived conflict of interest and I say that it is incumbent on this Parliament and this Government to do that so that the people who are involved in terms of litigation and proceedings have confidence that there is impartiality and that there are no conflicts of interest and dual jurisdiction. I am disappointed but not surprised that the spokesperson on justice from the Green Party does not support this bill. 
 Let me say that many Maori have experiences of this—some of them fortunate some of them unfortunate; some of them positive some of them negative—with the proceedings of the Maori Land Court and even with the existence of the Maori Land Court in terms of its jurisdiction and paternal attitude towards the administration of Maori land. Let me say that quite clearly. One of the reasons is that I think Maoridom has the responsibility and the maturity to be able to govern and administer their own land in just the same way as Pakeha do. So why do Maori need to get a permit from the Maori Land Court to build a whare paku a toilet on their land or to make other developments on their land whereas other owners of general land are not required to do so? 
Then of course there is the matter of the jurisdiction of the tribunal. 
Hone Harawira 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I think the speaker is getting a little outside the brief of this particular bill when he talks about permits to build toilets on the land. This is not about the workings of the Maori Land Court; this is about the conflict of interest of persons sitting on the Maori Land Court. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: No no—I took it that the member was speaking quite relevantly to the bill. 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: I do not want to take up any more time in the House but I want to say that the majority of Maori people see the dual jurisdiction currently held by a Maori Land Court judge who then sits on the tribunal to adjudicate a matter that may be on the same issues clearly as a conflict of interest. I want to make it quite clear that this is not an issue that should be sheeted home in terms of how Pakeha see it. I say to this House that Maori people are concerned also about the perceived conflict of interests for judges of the Maori Land Court who may be appointed to the tribunal to adjudicate on an issue that may have begun at the Maori Land Court stage. Kia ora tatou.