Norman Russel William: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Norman Russel William: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:658;Page:7009] 
11.  
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: How much did the Government pay Westpac in bank fees in the last financial year and how much does the Government currently have on deposit with them? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 If the House will bear with me the answer is a slightly longer than usual answer. The Government has a master banking agreement with Westpac under which a range of banking services are provided to individual departments. In addition departments have supplementary agreements with a range of banks for services not covered by the Westpac agreement. Treasury does not centrally collect information from individual Government entities on the fees paid to or deposits held with individual banks. The account balances of all New Zealand dollar Crown and departmental accounts are consolidated at the end of each banking day and the net balance is then moved to the Crown settlement account at the Reserve Bank. So the Government in that sense does not have any deposits with Westpac; they are all held at the Reserve Bank. But the Government does not centrally collect information about bank fees. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is there an obligation on Westpac as the Government’s banker to behave as a good corporate citizen; if so does the Minister believe that Westpac was acting as a good corporate citizen when it structured its affairs to illegally avoid paying over half a billion dollars in taxes? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: That matter as the member will know is before the courts at the moment and in that context I do not intend to comment on it. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The matter is not currently before the courts. The Minister has refrained from answering on the basis of sub judice. The matter is not before the courts; Judge Harrison has ruled on it. There is no appeal currently before the courts. This matter is not before the courts. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I invite the Minister to consider his answer in that light. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The time for Westpac to lodge an appeal has not expired. Given the large amounts of money involved—in this case almost a billion dollars—I do not intend to make any comments that might compromise the Crown’s position. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If we are to accept the Minister’s position then we as a Parliament have our freedom of speech restricted during the entire period between a judgment being made and the latest that an appeal can be lodged. It seems to me that there is currently no case before the courts there is no matter of sub judice and we have a right as a Parliament to speak about an issue until an appeal is lodged. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the Minister in his further answer to the question pointed out that he does not consider it to be in the public interest to further answer the particular question that the member asked and I think that only the Minister can be the judge of that. I think the member will accept that there is a lot at stake and that Ministers have to be careful in these matters. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Will the Minister commit to an exit strategy from his use of Westpac as the Government banker in the light of its conviction in the High Court for tax avoidance—a conviction that means Westpac now owes the taxpayer nearly $1 billion in back taxes and interest payments? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The Government will honour the terms of its contractual arrangements with Westpac which have been in place now since 1989. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: What does the Minister say to hard-working taxpaying New Zealanders who honestly pay their taxes while Westpac the Government’s banker illegally avoids paying half a billion dollars in taxes? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: I say to those hard-working taxpayers that even the Government’s banker is subject to the highest courts in the land. In this case the Government’s banker along with other banks has been vigorously pursued by the Crown.