2. Question No. 2—HealthJAN LOGIE (Green) to the Minister of HealthQuestion No. 2—Health2. JAN LOGIE (Green) to the Minister of Health: Does he stand by his statement that the employment conditions and pay offer that nurses rejected had been proposed by their own bargaining team; if so why does he think the nurses' union has stated this isn't true?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health): In response to the first part of the question: yes. In response to the second part of the question: I'm not responsible for the Nurses Organisation's views.Jan Logie: What did he hope to achieve by misrepresenting the union's position—SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! The member can't make allegations as part of a question when they're unsubstantiated like that.Jan Logie: What did the Minister hope to achieve by presenting a position that the nurses' union believes is untrue outside of the bargaining process including through a press release a press conference Twitter and a Facebook post?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I did that because when our health sector is under enormous pressure when the nursing workforce is under extraordinary pressure with a number of serious issues that need to be addressed including their pay and the resolution of a longstanding pay equity claim and the working conditions that many are under because of the pressure the service is under it is a serious matter when nurses choose to go on strike and certainly as a consequence of bargaining breaking down it is important to keep the public informed of what is happening and the background to it.Jan Logie: Is he aware that when he spoke of variable response management" as opposed to the correct term "variance response management" it undermined nurses' confidence in his understanding of the safe staffing programme his Government proposes to review?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I think the nurses I've spoken to fully understand that this Government takes seriously the commitments it entered into in 2018 in relation to the Safe Staffing Accord and the implementation of Care Capacity Demand Management. That scheme has been implemented by 10 DHBs up to 30 June this year partially implemented by seven and three DHBs are way behind on the implementation of it. The DHBs had a deadline of 30 June. It is unsatisfactory and unacceptable that that scheme has not been fully implemented across the system. I'm determined to establish why and to fix it. I sought the agreement of the Nurses Organisation—through the bargaining at their suggestion—to set up a way to do that. That has been rejected but I'm going to proceed to establish why that is the case and to fix it anyway.Jan Logie: Is it true that $10k of the $13000 increase he said nurses would receive was not actually part of the 2021 multi-employer collective agreement (MECA) offer and will be subject to ratification through a separate pay equity vote outside of MECA bargaining?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: That is not correct. If I can assist the member to understand the structure of the deal that was developed and that was subsequently voted on but rejected by the nurses most recently—there were two components to it. One was the standard cost of living adjustment that was consistent with the pay guidelines developed by the Public Service Commission earlier this year. There was another element that related to what was effectively an advance on pay equity in view of the fact that concluding the pay equity claim had taken much longer than both the DHBs and the Nurses Organisation had anticipated but it was a way of getting additional income into the nurses' pockets. In any event that was rejected.Jan Logie: Does he support the DHBs taking the Nurses Organisation to the Employment Court over unsafe staffing levels when nurses have been raising the alarm about ongoing unsafe staffing levels for years?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I'm not responsible for the decisions that the DHBs as employers take in their industrial relations environment except to say that it has been an issue for some months now that there is uncertainty and a lack of clarity about the commitments that both the DHBs and the Nurses Organisation have signed up to in relation to life-preserving services which is a commitment that the Nurses Organisation gives to DHBs when industrial action takes place. In view of that uncertainty and that lack of clarity and the inability to reach agreement with the Nurses Organisation prior to the next round of industrial action the DHBs have decided to get a ruling from the courts on exactly what meeting life-preserving standards means.Jan Logie: Does he agree that the nurses and midwives and healthcare workers are themselves in the best position to judge whether the offer will address their primary concern—that staffing levels are dangerously low and putting lives and their wellbeing at risk?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The workforce that the member refers to is in the best position to determine that. Having determined that the next step is to find a fix for it and that is what we're trying to do."