Mallard Trevor: Estimates Debate — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeMallard Trevor: Estimates Debate — In Committee[Sitting date: 30 July 2013. Volume:692;Page:12039. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South):When the Prime Minister was involved in the Banks inquiry he said: “When you talk to my chief of staff you talk to me.” That is why when WayneEagleson asked Parliamentary Service for the phone records—and we now know that it must have been him because David Henry did not—we had the force the voice of the Prime Minister demanding the records of a journalist. As members point out to me every now and again I have been around this House for some time. I can remember the reasons for dividing up the old Legislative Department into the Parliamentary Service and Ministerial Services. The reason for that was to take away from political control from party political control and from the Prime Minister the ability to access records and to put it in a place that is independent. This year that has been severely breached and it appears to have been breached on at least between four and six occasions.The fact that a member of Parliament’s access logs—when they went in and out of the building when they moved around the building—were made available by Parliamentary Service to an outside body without a warrant is a disgrace. It is not the sort of thing that happens in any democracy. The fact that Parliamentary Service went further and supplied the access details of a journalist is even more disgraceful. It is fundamental to our democracy that journalists have the ability to move freely aroundthese buildings and to talk to whomever they wish. The idea that if members of Parliament go to the press gallery that is recorded and reported to the chief of staff of the Prime Minister is wrong as it is absolutely wrong for journalists moving in and out of whichever doors of the building going to and from outside appointments to be recorded and reported.There has been a lot of discussion over the years about the relationship between the gallery and Parliamentary Service—the offices what is paid for what is not. There has always been an assumption that the phone records that go through Parliamentary Service—but I understand that in the end the extra bills are paid by the employers of the journalists—are sacrosanct and that they would be accessed only in the—Hon Christopher Finlayson: Accessed.Hon TREVOR MALLARD: Oh there he goes again. There he goes again—Hon Annette King: Who’s that?Hon TREVOR MALLARD: Your cousin. The assumption that we have is that the phone records will be accessed only under warrant. What we have now is the chief of staff of the Prime Minister the person who appears to order the Government Communications Security Bureau to spy on people now using Parliamentary Service to get information that would be obtainable only under warrant—under warrant—and approved by the Attorney-General. What we have here is an appalling state of affairs where journalists and members of Parliament are not allowed to have discussions with each other and with their own groups. I mean where does it finish? If Peter Dunne wants to have a discussion with another member of Parliament are the records of that member of Parliament going to be made available to the Prime Minister’s office as well?Hon Members: Yes.Hon TREVOR MALLARD: Yes. Yes say two members opposite. I think it is approved of by both the backbencher—whose name I have forgotten—from King Country and Russel Norman. That is what happens in this Parliament and that is totally unacceptable. I think the Speaker has done the right thing. Obviously this is not the right vote to discuss the fact that the Speaker has referred the matter to the Privileges Committee but there are a lot of questions that he should answer now.