Coleman Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Coleman Jonathan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:645;Page:14695] 
8.  
Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (National—Northcote) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Why would the public have any confidence that hospitals in the Auckland region will cope with demand for services this winter considering they are currently running at capacity? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health) 
: 
 They can have confidence because capacity is increasing. This includes an additional 68 new beds opening between North Shore Hospital and Waitakere Hospital and the Auckland District Health Board has also recently opened 69 new beds. In the last quarter the three Auckland district health boards saw 100 percent of triage 1 patients—that is the most serious cases—immediately. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Why then would anyone believe that the situation in greater Auckland emergency departments will be anything other than a meltdown this winter when we are not even out of summer and already according to today’s  
New Zealand Herald 
 there are patients lying in the corridors of emergency departments across the city; and does the Minister realise that Waikato Hospital is now full to bursting as well? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: The member I recall was a medical professional himself. He should not— 
Hon Member 
: Not for long really. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: —not for long really—run down the efforts of clinicians. I am advised that January and February were record attendance months for some years for the Auckland District Health Board and that quite often there is variation in the inflows to such hospitals. 
Darien Fenton 
: Has the Minister seen any plans that would send patients in their droves through the doors of emergency departments? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: Yes. I am aware that should the National Party ever become Government it would allow general practitioner fees to skyrocket thereby sending primary medical care out of the reach of many New Zealanders— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Much as most people would understand that in these straitened times that Labour Minister may wish he were in the National Party Mr Cunliffe is not and never likely to be. So for him to stand up and purport to be reading National Party policy when in fact what he is reading is a gross misinterpretation of that policy is plainly wrong and well outside the responsibilities he has as a Minister. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the Minister just confine his answer to his ministerial responsibility—or maybe he has finished his answer? Thank you. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Does the Minister agree with Helen Clark’s quote from 1996 that “our hospitals must be ready to cope with the problems. It just isn’t good enough to have basic services break down …”; if so rather than just patronise the House can he explain why after $5 billion of extra spending we still have the same old issues of failing emergency departments bed shortages staff shortages and compromised patient safety—is it not time he admitted that after 9 years of Labour it has no hope of fixing this problem? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: I can confirm that the answer to the service delivery challenge is unlikely to be found in the following quote: “You are not subsidised to go to your accountant or your mechanic— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. Members know that when another member rises on a point of order they are seated. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: You asked the Minister to constrain himself to the areas for which he is responsible. For him to stand up and start an answer by saying that “he considers” and then to start reading from a document that is a report of someone else’s policy or is purported to be is not within his responsibility. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member but the Standing Orders require that Ministers respond to areas within their ministerial responsibilities. If the member has received reports that come within his or her ministerial responsibility the Minister is entitled to comment. However what Ministers are not responsible for and are not permitted to comment on is direct activities inside another political party. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: It may be helpful if I rephrase. In addressing the member’s question I say that I have seen a report as to the reasoning behind a likely further pressure on the influx of primary care patients to emergency departments. The report states: “You are not subsidised to go to your accountant or your mechanic.” That quote was from John Key explaining why he wants to raise general practitioner fees. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The questions that have been posed to the Minister relate to serious overcrowding in at least three hospitals in the northern part of the country—very serious overcrowding. There are people in corridors and even a report that they may have to start leaving people in ambulances for treatment because there are no hospital beds for them and he wants to quote some little thing that has come out of the Labour research unit relating to general practitioners. Why cannot he answer the questions for the area he is responsible for? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: The Minister was not quoting some little thing that came out of the Labour research unit; he was quoting a National Party policy release. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I listened carefully and it certainly was within the context of the primary question relating to overcrowding and the circumstances that contribute to that. 
Hon Tariana Turia 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker. Tena tatou. What action will the Minister take with Auckland hospitals to address the suboptimal care identified by Auckland Professor Peter Davis to which Maori and Pasifika populations are being subjected? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: I can confirm to the member that Maori and Pasifika health care is a priority for this Government and that we are working very hard through additional investment to turn around the disparities that grew shockingly through the 1990s that great progress has been made and that there is more work to be done. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Does the Minister realise that rather than constantly dodging direct questions and failing to give direct answers he needs to focus on the fact that things have become so bad at North Shore Hospital’s emergency department that corridor spaces for trolleys—that is corridor spaces—are now being numbered like they would be in some sort of makeshift refugee camp— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I listened to that question for some time and nothing in it remotely resembles the proper way of asking a question in Parliament. The member should not be allowed to get away with it just because he is inexperienced and does not know what is going on around here. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The problem with a lot of the questions particularly the supplementary questions is that they are statements. I am afraid that that is a problem with all parties not just one party in this House. Would the member please ask a succinct question that does relate to the primary question. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Does the Minister realise that things have become so bad in the North Shore Hospital emergency department that corridor spaces for trolleys are now being numbered like they would be in some sort of makeshift refugee camp; and is this the first-class health system that Helen Clark promised New Zealand? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: What I can confirm to the member is that the request for additional beds in the Waitemata District Health Board area that was put forward by a number of doctors last week has already been more than exceeded. They asked for 62 beds and they are already getting an additional 68 beds this year. I say to Dr Coleman that I know that is right. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: What would the Minister say to Carol Wilson the manager of the North Shore Hospital emergency department who says she is very concerned about the way hospitals will manage in winter and who asks today in the  
New Zealand Herald 
: “My God what’s winter going to be like?”; and when will the Minister hold your appointee Kay McKelvie the chair of the Waitemata District Health Board to her promises to solve the crisis in the hospital? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Have you made a recent appointment to the New Zealand public health system? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No. The member should have known better. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: That member is an experienced member and he is asking questions improperly. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I agree with the member. Members who have been here for some time should know that they do not drag the Chair into the debate in either questions or answers. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: I hold all boards and chairs to account for the integrity of service delivery. In the case of Waitemata District Health Board I notice that it has balanced its budget usually met its elective output targets and is building 68 new beds before this winter. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Why does the Minister continue to mislead the House by saying that there will be 78 new beds at the Waitemata District Health Board by the end of August when he knows full well that the funding application for this new Lakeview ward is not being submitted until August and the ward will not be built for 2 years at the earliest; and is he really telling us that under Labour a numbered place on a trolley in a corridor or a stretcher in the back of an ambulance actually counts as a bed? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: The member should try grommets. I said 68 beds not 78.