Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeRyall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 22 August 2007. Volume:641;Page:11347. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]8.Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) to theMinister of Health: Was the first time he became aware that the North Shore Hospital emergency department is “[not] providing an adequate service” when the Prime Minister told him after her recent visit; if not when did he first become aware?Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health): I first became aware of problems at North Shore Hospital just over 12 years ago on 30 May 1995. On that day Parliament was advised that an elderly woman who had been taken to hospital by ambulance after breaking her arm was left to find her own way home in her nightie after staff ejected her at 1 o’clock in the morning.Hon Tony Ryall: Given that at that time the current Prime Minister Helen Clark promised she would fix that situation why after spending $5 billion and after 8 long years in office has the Government not fixed it?Hon PETE HODGSON: The member may not be aware that since the change of Government the people of Waitematā have moved from a situation where they had one hospital to a situation where they have two. An entire new hospital has been built in the Waitakere area. There used to not be a hospital under the National Government in west Auckland at all—no hospital for quarter of a million people.Ann Hartley: What advice has the Minister received about the health workforce of the Waitemata District Health Board?Hon PETE HODGSON: As I mentioned to the House yesterday 6 years ago the number of doctors totalled 320 and since then that number has increased to 570. That is a 78 percent increase in that district health board’s doctors—an increase of 250 doctors—in 6 years. As for nurses the increases are even higher. An extra 253 nursing positions have been created not in the past 6 years but in the past 3 years. That is what one can do when one does not have only tax cuts on one’s mind.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is the situation with the North Shore Hospital emergency department occasioned by the huge drain on resources caused by that hospital having whole wards filled with people with Third World diseases and how on earth did that get to happen in our country?Hon PETE HODGSON: The health status of the people of North Shore City which is part of the Waitemata District Health Board area happens to be the highest in the land. But what is happening on the North Shore is that it is a very popular area to live it has very large population increases and it has even larger increases in the growth of its elderly population. That is why the funding increases for the Waitemata District Health Board are higher than those for any other district health board in the country.Hon Tony Ryall: Which other emergency departments are not providing an adequate service or is the Minister waiting for the Prime Minister to visit those ones first as well?Hon PETE HODGSON: At this time of year every year a number of emergency departments struggle. The Capital and Coast District Health Board said about 3 weeks ago that it had had difficulty and had moved into a sort of red zone. The Canterbury District Health Board moved into a red zone for several hours a few days ago. There are difficulties in Timaru. There were—but I do not think there are any now—difficulties in Waikato; they may recur. This is what happens when the flu takes hold and reduces the numbers of nurses and doctors available to go to work at the same time as it increases the number of patients who need to go to hospital.Hon Tony Ryall: In blaming the flu for the gridlock in our nation’s hospitals is the Minister aware of the comment of the current Prime Minister when in Opposition: “We know that winter brings an increase in health problems. It happens every year—some years earlier in the season some years later. But our hospitals must be ready to cope with the problems. It just isn’t good enough to have basic services break down as they have.”; and why after $5 billion and 8 years of endless rhetoric do we still have an 83-year-old woman lying on a trolley under bright lights at North Shore Hospital for 4 days on end and a woman with a broken shin and on a drip lying in the emergency department waiting room for 12 hours?Hon PETE HODGSON: Let me remind the House yet again that since the change of Government in December 1999 this country has been on a hospital rebuilding programme of a kind that has never been seen in living memory.Madam SPEAKER: The member gave his question in silence. Would members please give the Minister the courtesy of giving his reply in silence.Hon PETE HODGSON: New hospitals have been built from Kaitāia to Invercargill inclusive. Only a few kilometres from here an entire new regional hospital is going up in Wellington. If we go to Waitematā we find that an expanded emergency departmentat North Shore Hospital was opened by my colleague Annette King and that an entire new hospital was opened in west Auckland. That is the sort of thing one can do when one is intent on getting the rebuild under way and intent on addressing the infrastructure deficit that the current Prime Minister mentioned when in Opposition.Hon Tony Ryall: Does he think that patients at Palmerston North Hospital are getting an adequate service from their emergency department when an elderly man spent nearly an hour bleeding into a garden bucket before he was treated at that emergency department; and does he agree with the current Prime Minister’s pledge that a Labour Government would make sure that when someone needs a hospital bed that person gets it?Hon PETE HODGSON: I will repeat this for the member. The member wants to know where the money has gone. He seems to regret the fact that we have invested heavily in health so he decides he will say that nothing has changed. I tell him that we are on to our 28th hospital rebuild and we will continue that rebuild. When we are elected for a fourth term we will continue that rebuild until it is done. When it is done New Zealanders will have the hospital services that we need and we will not have to put up with the dereliction that was created right through the 1990s when all that that member could do was get out of bed and work out how to cut taxes.Jo Goodhew: Given the Minister’s answers to the previous questions is he concerned that despite all of that building and despite spending an extra $5 billion per year the public’s confidence that they will get treated in an emergency department is at the lowest level that it has ever been and the horror stories are more frightening than ever?Hon PETE HODGSON: I say to the member that I am not satisfied with the quality of treatment at the North Shore Hospital emergency department as it stands at the moment; neither is the Prime Minister and neither is the board of Waitemata District Health Board. It is not satisfactory. However if the member is going to get up in the House and say that public confidence in our health system is at the lowest level that it has ever been I shall introduce some facts into her prejudices. I am sorry to disturb the member’s prejudices but the truth is that we measure patient satisfaction with our hospitals and it runs at a high 80 percent approval rate.Hon Jim Anderton: Has the Minister received any reports that the last time Mr Ryall was a member of the Government of New Zealand the Government he was part of closed down 88 hospitals in this country and how did those closures help the New Zealand health system?Hon PETE HODGSON: Not only can I confirm there were hospital closures under the National Government; I can confirm that the National Government sought to reduce demand by charging people to go to hospital. I remember those days and I do not want to ever see them come back.Madam SPEAKER: Supplementary question? We have a point of order.Jo Goodhew: I seek leave to table an article—Madam SPEAKER: I am sorry. I had called for a supplementary question and a member wants to ask one. The normal procedure is that we try to get through supplementary questions before members introduce points of order relating to the tabling of documents. I call the Rt Hon Winston Peters.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Minister to tell me whether I have the score right: the National Government closed 88 hospitals—Hon Members: That’s not true.Rt Hon Winston Peters: —was it more—the fourth Labour Government closed 29 hospitals but the fifth Labour Government has opened 28 hospitals so we are onebehind on the Government side and 88 behind on the Opposition side where National is concerned?Madam SPEAKER: I do not think that requires an answer. [Interruption] Please be seated. I will take the member’s point of order. Would members please keep the level of noise down. It is really difficult to hear.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I do not know why on earth you ruled out that question because it simply asked for a statement of fact from the Minister. It seemed that because of the help of Mr Jim Anderton he had most of the figures at his disposal—first from Jim Anderton and now from myself. All I wanted to know was whether it was true or not true. The question should not be ruled out because those members cannot stand the truth.Gerry Brownlee: The member has asked for a factual answer to his particular question. Perhaps he himself should have used some facts in the first place because there have never been 88 hospitals in this country let alone 88 closed.Madam SPEAKER: We are now moving into debate not points of order. [Interruption] Please be silent; would you please be seated when I am on my feet. I will address the Rt Hon Winston Peters’ point of order. He did ask a question it was in terms of the Standing Orders so would the Minister please respond.Hon PETE HODGSON: With pleasure. The fact of the matter is that I could not keep count of how many hospitals National closed so I am not able to confirm that there were 88. But I am able to confirm afresh that the current building programme in dollars in number of hospitals in number of beds in tonnes of concrete—by whatever measure one would like to take—is the largest in this country in living memory and this Government will be back in a year’s time to continue it.Jo Goodhew: I seek leave to table an article on Christchurch Hospital’s “Worst ‘red gridlock’ in hospital’s history.”Madam SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.Hon Tony Ryall: I seek leave to table a report showing that although 250 doctors have been employed by the Waitemata District Health Board well over 200 extra managers and administrators have also been employed.Madam SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection.Hon PETE HODGSON: I seek leave to table a document showing that in the last year although dozens of nurses dozens of doctors and dozens of ancillary health professionals were employed by the Waitemata District Health Board the number of support workers—Madam SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.Hon Dr Nick Smith: For the benefit of Mr Jim Anderton I seek leave to table a list of the 23 hospitals closed by Helen Clark.Madam SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection.