Brown SimeonSIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga): Thank you Madam Speaker—I'd better take my mask off here actually—for the opportunity—Hon Chris Hipkins: Put it back on!SIMEON BROWN: Oh you want me to put the mask back on? I'll put the mask—Simon O'Connor: Actually strictly that would have been a protected disclosure.SIMEON BROWN: That would have been a protected disclosure as my colleague Simon O' Connor says. But it is a pleasure to take a call on the Protected Disclosures (Protection of Whistleblowers) Bill at the third reading which the National Party will be supporting.The context of this debate following a very rousing speech by Greg O'Connor which I do think was actually in the context of a protected disclosure telling us a very interesting story about some dealings with someone who was dealing cocaine—I couldn't quite understand exactly the context of the story but I'm not sure if this was the actual place where that sort of protected disclosure should have actually been lodged here in the House. I'm not quite sure if the member was aware this is open being transmitted across New Zealand and people are able to listen in. So I'm not quite sure if that was exactly what he was trying to do but a very interesting speech nevertheless.But back to the bill. The National Party will be supporting this piece of legislation. I think that as the Minister has rightly acknowledged making sure that we have procedures in place to ensure that people who are aware of issues around corruption safety or criminal activity have opportunities to be able to report and to ensure that they are able to bring that information to the attention of those who need to know but also to be protected in that way in terms of when they are actually making those disclosures so that there is no repercussions back on them—that is a critical part of a functioning democracy particularly in the public sector. So the National Party of course will be supporting this piece of legislation which will allow that process to not only be continued but also to be able to be refined as New Zealand continues to try to make sure that our legislation protects these people and protects that information.Whistleblowers serve the public interest by exposing a range of things like unethical practices threats to public health or safety and criminal activity—and that is something which is incredibly effective particularly when it comes to making sure that we reduce corruption or corrupt behaviour is brought to light in an organisation and that's something which I think from the taxpayers' perspective is critically important. Taxpayers want to ensure that Public Service organisations the public sector is working for them and is making sure that they are effectively responding to those concerns which are raised within those organisations. So having this piece of legislation allows for a very clear process for these complaints these disclosures to be made for people to be able to come forward without having to risk their reputation or negative repercussions which may easily come upon them and also for the particular organisations to have a very clear process which they then have to follow which is set out very clearly in the legislation. And so I think it's a very very good piece of legislation. I acknowledge the select committee which has diligently worked on this particular bill and has made recommendations; the submitters who of course have submitted on this piece of legislation; and I do note there has been a number of points made through that process which I think are important to touch on. The Minister has touched on the issue around the private sector and I do think it's important to put on the record that there is of course implications that this bill will have where public money is involved. But at the same time it is important that the Government is not imposing significant regulation and costs on to businesses particularly small businesses if they would also be included in this regime. And so whilst it's important of course for private sector businesses to be considering how they can support and ensure their staff are able to bring forward complaints or issues of these natures particularly I think larger businesses Government also needs to consider the cost that policies like this would have if they were put in place for the private sector at large. And so I do think this bill does get the balance right on that particular point. Hon David Bennett: What about Greg O'Connor?SIMEON BROWN: Well I've already touched on Greg O'Connor David Bennett in terms of this is not quite the place for a protected disclosure in Parliament—Parliament is not quite the place. The bill makes it very clear that there is a confidential process whereby protected disclosures can and should be made. But I would not suggest that someone like Greg O'Connor should be making those particular disclosures in Parliament because of course Parliament is open it's on the radio it's on the TV and you can watch it on demand and the Hansard will even be printing it. So what is said here will be on the record for ever. And so whilst of course we're very interested in what Greg Connor has to say Mr Bennett I don't think it's—Maureen Pugh: Not everyone.SIMEON BROWN: Well not everyone; we're interested to a certain degree would probably be a better point Maureen Pugh. But I wouldn't say everyone's incredibly interested but it's on the record. So I guess the point I'm trying to say—Hon David Bennett: What did he say?SIMEON BROWN: Well I've already covered that too Mr Bennett. But back to the points I was trying to make. The final point I would like to make is that there is of course an issue around these types of regimes to ensure that there is a threshold at which complaints have to be met—the risk being that we don't want to see vexatious or litigious complaints where people constantly are trying to bring complaints forward and just chewing up time. So I do think the definition or meaning of serious wrongdoing" does strike that balance right where of course serious wrongdoing includes something which is an offence a serious risk to public health public safety health or safety of an individual the environment—[Interruption] Well Simon Watts I mean it could be. I mean spending $51 million on a cycle bridge which didn't go ahead. You know I'm not sure that's quite an unlawful or corrupt or irregular use of public funds. I mean potentially. But I would just say it's important that there is a high threshold is the point I was trying to make Mr Watts in that we want to make sure that we're not having vexatious or litigious complaints coming through. There has to be a high threshold in regards to these complaints. So whilst I wouldn't give you any advice here on the fly around whether you would want to report that or not Mr Watts the point is that there does need to be a high threshold around these particular wrongdoings.So I do think the bill has got that balance right. The National Party supports this bill. We do want to ensure that our public sector maintains the highest ethical standards that there are good processes in place for people who make these complaints and that they are dealt with in the most careful and confidential ways and that those people do not risk their reputation or negative repercussions from that. And so the National Party is supportive of this bill and we commend it to the House."