Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:14892] 
11.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay Of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Which police districts operate quotas or performance measures where officers are expected to issue a certain number of tickets every hour or day they are on traffic duty and does he agree with this system? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 All police officers are expected to meet performance standards relevant to the duties they undertake. It is a system that works well as the Hon Tony Ryall acknowledged on 16 June at the Law and Order Committee when he told the Commissioner of Police: “I want to compliment you on your statement of intent which I think is a real move in trying to give the Parliament a feel for exactly the approaches you are taking.” 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Is it not the case that this Government’s speed camera policy now sees pressure on the police to collect revenue to pay for the Government’s Budget promises rather than having road safety as the sole priority? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Our aim is to get the road toll down. Many years ago people did not go along with the introduction of drink-driving campaigns. They did not like seat-belt campaigns. Now they are not liking speeding campaigns but I have to say that my information is that the number of tickets given out this financial year is starting to show that people are getting the message—the number is starting to drop. 
Dave Hereora 
: What information has he received regarding the performance requirements of police officers on duty? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: On the  
Holmes 
 show earlier this week the Police Association president Greg O’Connor claimed that police were ignoring a lot of their duties. Regrettably Mr O’Connor damages his own credibility with untrue statements such as: “We are ignoring the P.”; “Police are now being forced to ignore a lot of general duties—burglary domestic-type policy.” The facts are the police do all manner of work. They support communities and victims they deal with youth offenders provide youth education manage youth projects process arms licences administer the Arms Act deal with reports of lost and found property make apprehensions on patrol do bail and parole checks— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is sufficient. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This answer goes over a couple more pages. I seek leave to table it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table it. Is there any objection? There is. 
Peter Brown 
: Does the Minister accept that a ticket quota system lowers the standing of the police in the public’s eyes and does he accept that such a practice gives strength to the argument that police and traffic duties should be segregated and administered by totally separate organisations? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: No. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: In light of the Minister’s repeated denials over the years about revenue gathering how does he explain Budget documents that indicate that the Minister of Finance effectively suggested in December that if the police issue more tickets then the money can be spent on Budget promises; and a paper from the Secretary for Justice which states that the increase in revenue from speed cameras could be earmarked for Budget promises? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I think those people will be disappointed because speed is coming down on our roads but will be absolutely delighted that we now have safer roads and a dropping road toll. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table three documents. The first is a newspaper report confirming quota ticketing. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: The second is a document marked “Budget sensitive 16 January” reporting on correspondence from the Minister of Finance about money being available for Budget promises. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: The third is a document from the Ministry of Justice’s chief executive confirming that additional funding could be earmarked from the increase in police fines. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was asked how he reconciled his denial with what are apparently two Cabinet or official documents that show that the denial is not correct. That was what he was asked as a Minister. He made no attempt whatsoever to answer. He talked about speed coming down fines coming down and offending coming down but he made no attempt to answer the question. How does he reconcile a denial over a long period of time that there is a quota system going on with documents that suggest there is? He should be required to answer that now. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Even assuming that the summary of that document is correct—and I have yet to read it—there has in fact been only the claim that was made by Mr Ryall in his question. The point is not that there is a quota but that the money was to be used for other purposes. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is perfectly correct. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. When somebody raises a valid point of order it should be taken seriously. The fact that Dr Cullen came rushing to the rescue and got it wrong is neither here nor there. The Minister was asked a question in respect of his long denial that a quota system is in operation: how come there are documents in existence that suggest there is? When can we have an answer to that question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will examine the transcript and if I find that the Minister has not responded properly I will get back to him. 
Peter Brown 
: Is the Minister aware that there are a significant number of motorists—in particular law-abiding motorists who never get a ticket and who never go wrong—who see this ticket quota system as something like Big Brother; and is it not about time that the Minister sat down with some law-abiding motorists and determined a fairer way to manage traffic on New Zealand roads? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Surveys show that those people generally support the work the police are doing. I have to say that innocent people have nothing to fear. I do not want to be selective about the types of crime for which penalties may be enforced as the member wishes to be.