Davis KelvinKELVIN DAVIS (Labour—Te Tai Tokerau): Labour supports this legislation the composite parts of the Drug and Alcohol Testing of Community-based Offenders Bailees and Other Persons Legislation Bill. As the Minister of Corrections said for this third reading the legislation is divided into the Bail (Drug and Alcohol Testing) Amendment Bill the Parole (Drug and Alcohol Testing) Amendment Bill the Sentencing (Drug and Alcohol Testing) Amendment Bill the Public Safety (Public Protection Orders) (Drug and Alcohol Testing) Amendment Bill and the Returning Offenders (Management and Information) (Drug and Alcohol Testing) Amendment Bill. The Returning Offenders (Management and Information) (Drug and Alcohol Testing) Amendment Bill as the Minister said was put in the legislation by Supplementary Order Paper 236 to make sure that when those people who have been detained or convicted of crimes overseas return here they are under the same testing regime as people who have been released on bail into the community or people who have been sentenced into the community or people who are on parole after having spent time in prison or those people who are the subject of public protection orders—in other words people who have committed serious sexual or violent crimes.As we know drug and alcohol misuse is a driver of crime. The number of people who have reported using drugs and alcohol at the time of their arrest is approximately 48 percent. Two-thirds of offenders on home detention intensive supervision and supervision orders have identified alcohol or drug abuse or other addiction issues so it makes sense that we put in place a regime that monitors those people who have got an abstinence condition and make sure that they actually follow it.Most offenders are not intrinsically motivated. They do not think to themselves: Oh crikey! I better not drink alcohol. I better not participate in consuming drugs." Many of them are extrinsically motivated meaning that they need external pressure put on them to make sure that they abstain from drugs and alcohol. That is why these conditions are put in place—to actually help them and to help the community to be safer. To me it is a win-win situation. The offenders are helped albeit extrinsically to abstain from drugs and alcohol. Their families would probably be really grateful if they were kept off drugs and alcohol so that they do not offend and so that they do not go back to prison but certainly communities will be safer as well. So it is a win-win situation for the offender for their families and for the community. Some people may see it as an imposition on the offenders but the reality is that we need to look after our communities and make sure that they are kept safe.Every year there are thousands of offenders on community sentences and orders and bailees who have an abstinence condition imposed. This legislation allows as the Minister has said the Commissioner of Police and the Chief Executive of the Department of Corrections to have their people test these offenders. If offenders know that they have got a high chance of being checked for drugs and alcohol then the chances are that they will be more inclined to not take the risk of consuming both drugs and alcohol. On the flip side if they believe that they have a high chance of being caught with drugs and alcohol in their system and that there will be consequences because of this then the chances are that they will be less inclined to consume drugs or alcohol.We can draw a comparison with our poor burglary resolution rates. Burglars know that they have a 90 percent chance of getting away scot-free if they commit burglaries so there is a high probability that because of that they will go on to commit further burglaries.We also need to have a look at what is going on in prisons. Yesterday I met with a couple of former prisoners—female prisoners who had obviously spent time in a female prison in South Auckland. They made a startling claim that at any given time there were no more than a dozen or so prisoners who were able to attend drug and alcohol rehabilitation programmes. They also said—and I have heard this from other prisoners as well—that the reason prisoners attend the drug and alcohol programmes is that prisoners from other units will come together in one room and it is easier basically for them to exchange drugs and alcohol. They said that somebody who attends the drug and alcohol programme has to be a particularly motivated and determined person to actually break the habit because of the fact that they really attend the drug and alcohol courses to actually exchange drugs. They also said that there was another place where they go to exchange drugs and funnily enough that is to Church in prison. They are not just talking about participating in the communion wine; they said that when prisoners come together from other units to Church it is just another—it broadens the market I guess for the exchange of drugs and alcohol.So it is good to hear that the Minister said that over 3 years the Government is putting $8.6 million into addressing this and $2.1 million into meth screening. There is a real need in prisons for greater support to help prisoners kick the habit. As those prisoners told me they have to be particularly motivated and particularly determined to kick the habit because basically the conditions in prisons actually encourage drug and alcohol consumption. The other thing they said is that they attend the courses and then they may have to wait 1 or 2 years before they actually get released into the community. They are told: "Attend this 3- or 6-month course and then sit around for 2 years but make sure you remember what you were told 2 or 3 years ago on that drug and alcohol course and then apply it once you get out."As a former educator I know that if people are going to learn things they actually need to be able to apply their knowledge and what they have learnt almost immediately. The courses probably need to be more intensive more regular and include more prisoners. Corrections has more work to do in order to create the conditions where prisoners address their drug and alcohol issues both inside and outside the community and this is just a small—actually it is not even a small step. It is just another step to help monitor prisoners' consumption of drugs and alcohol.There was a concern around the equipment that is attached to the people and that it might give false positive readings in drug and alcohol testing. I am sure—well I would like to think—that Corrections and Police have got the equipment to such a state that it will not give false positives because one of the problems with false positives is that it is really hard for the prisoner to actually prove that they are innocent. I gave the example in the Committee stage of how police have used Listerine with children in schools to show that alcohol breath testing can pick up Listerine or can pick up the alcohol in cologne. It is very very hard for an offender who is actually innocent who has a false positive to prove and be heard and believed that they did not actually consume drugs and alcohol if the testing equipment provides a false positive. The chances are that they will end up back in prison. They will be bitter angry and twisted if they think they have been treated unfairly. So it is important that offenders and the public have confidence in the use of alcohol-monitoring technology and its effectiveness.We have got to make sure that testing for alcohol or drugs does not encroach on the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure. The Minister did say that the testing should be no more intrusive than is necessary that it should be no more often than is necessary and that it respects privacy. I think we have got to balance the rights of offenders with the rights of the community to be safe. Kia ora.Debate interrupted."