Peters WinstonRt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First): Kia ora. Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to the people from Whangaroa who are back home there now watching this parliamentary debate and hoping for some justice. Can I just say that it was curious for us to learn now that the Māori Party has members; indeed the Green Party has members; and the National Party has members with the same reservations that New Zealand First has had for a long long time. This matter was alive before the 1975 introduction of the Treaty of Waitangi legislation itself. That is a fact and anyone who was a young lawyer back then would know that. So this is not new. But the point is that what we have got here is a whole lot of members of Parliament who are trying to say that a lot of people have relationships to certain blocks of land. That is not the issue; who has the principal relationship is the judgment that should be made now. Can I just say that the second reading and the third reading of this legislation should be taking place today and tomorrow and if people want to know why it is not—can I just put on the record a statement by Tim Macindoe from 4 September. He wrote to the other members of the Business Committee and he asked: I imagine you are all receiving a large number of requests from your colleagues"—this is dated 12 September—Tim Macindoe: That's right—after the deal was done with your party and others.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: No no—I will read it out. I will read it out. Do not shout out. Have a Valium.Tim Macindoe: This member is betraying the iwi and betraying the House and betraying the whips. He is deplorable.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: No—exercise some control. I am going to read it out. You cannot stop me—you cannot stop me.Tim Macindoe: No honour at all.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: I am reading it out. He said: "I imagine"—well given his mind he probably imagines a lot yes? "I imagine you are all receiving a large number of requests"—[Interruption]—"from your colleagues for leave on Friday"—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Order! I am sorry to interrupt the member. Interjections are fine but using words that the member used is unacceptable and we will not have that.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. "I imagine you are all receiving a large number of requests from your colleagues for leave on Friday 23 September as I have been from mine." He asked whether or not there could be a reduction in the percentages and a vote on voices only. My colleague the next day sent a note that said: "Hi all New Zealand First does not support this request for extra leave applications." It is all there. He is now caught out—caught out by his own words—and no amount of bombast and shouting from the uneducated teacher from Hamilton is going to override the facts of this document. He has been caught out. The reason why we are not having the third reading tomorrow is that he has given too much leave for his colleagues to be going on an early holiday. It is that simple. All they needed here tomorrow for the people of Whangaroa was 13 members—all they needed was 13 members.Tim Macindoe: They have now betrayed their members and the House and the iwi.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Do not tell me—tell the people you are lying to. Tell the people you are lying to.The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Order! [Interruption] Order! I want this to calm down. The points have been made and I ask you to just focus on what is in the bill.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. What I am saying to the whip and to the National Goverment is—Tim Macindoe: This is outrageous.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Do not shout out here—tell them up there from Whangaroa face to face that your document is not true.Tim Macindoe: I'm very happy to stand by my documents.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Oh no—no you are not very happy because you are trying to shout me down. And you are a junior member and will probably be gone very shortly.Tim Macindoe: I'm telling the truth about your actions.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Ha ha! You—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): As I just mentioned previously I want you to calm this down. The points have been well made about the concerns and I just want you now to focus in the remaining time on what is in the bill.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Yes Mr Assistant Speaker but what is most important here is that we have got a bill in its second reading that could be having a third reading tomorrow except that a whole lot of members of Parliament including the chair of the committee have grave reservations and so does New Zealand First and I will tell you why.Hon Maggie Barry: Stick to the issues.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Well that member would not know a thing about Māoridom or for that matter about the Department of Conservation either which is the reason why in the Trans Tasman Political Alert magazine she was described as a lightweight. Of course she is going to get rid of for $25000 all pests in this country by 2050. If I was her I would just keep my mouth shut. But here is the point: what members need to understand is that you cannot negotiate justice without the facts and in respect of what is happening in Whangaroa what is happening here is that there is no resolution—and it is in the bill itself. It says that this is not a resolution. A long time ago people like for example Dr Cullen and Shane Jones and others were up there—a long time back in fact they were reported in the Northern Advocate trying to negotiate a settlement up there and there were the same problems back then as there are now. New Zealand First says that we will never settle it by passing this legislation and then saying: "Well you can go to the court in the next 3 years and if that is not resolved then you come back here." That is not a resolution at all. Why do we not put the fire power in put the investigative capacity in find out the truth and pass a bill once and for all so that everybody in Whangaroa can be happy? Who could disagree with that—instead of saying: "Let's go back to the court in 3 years' time." Who is going to pay for that? Who is going to pay for the court case?Tim Macindoe: We've all agreed to. This is the member holding it up.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: I will tell you what is wrong with this Parliament. There is somebody there who has no understanding of any Māori issue at all. He does not understand that some of us were young lawyers up there seeing Nuku Stewart and other people in Whangaroa a long time ago. Some of your forefathers—I remember them so well. He does not but he is so arrogant that he shouts down someone who does know these people—unbelievably arrogant. Why does the member for Hamilton not just keep his mouth shut? As for "Madam Fox" let me tell you: why is the real leader of the Māori Party not speaking today?Marama Fox: Back the people.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Why is the real leader of the Māori Party not speaking today? Why is the real leader of the Māori Party not speaking here today? That is a party of course that is going to oblivion. In fact the Government pays so much attention to them—Tim Macindoe: This member welched on the deal. That's the beginning and end of it—this member welched on the deal.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: I will tell the people of Whangaroa that if they witness what we are watching in the House today it is every reason why they will know that they must not go with that group there. These two here: one is from Ngāti Porou; the other one is from the slum lands of England and he is telling someone steeped in Māoridom in the north for hundreds of years to shut up in Parliament. How arrogant can you be? How arrogant can you be? Can I just say this: I have gone back and studied this for a long long time. This bill is not a resolution—everybody who knows the north knows that.Tim Macindoe: It was when your party agreed to it. You have completely gone back on your word. The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Order!Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): I am dealing with the matter. [Interruption] I am on my feet and I will deal with this. I have asked members of the Government side to calm it down. Interjections are fine but running commentaries and barracking are unacceptable. This is the third time—next time I will deal with this in a more direct manner. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS: Thank you Mr Assistant Speaker. Can I just say something? I have seen this sort of battering-ram legislation. I saw two iwi in the case of the Tūhoe settlement that were recognised by the most esteemed member of Parliament Māoridom has ever had here by Ngata himself just being ridden roughshod over. I am not going to see that happen up north—because that is what is happening here. I do not think that myself or Kelvin Davis or Peeni Henare have the final answer to this but we know that one is capable of being found. My point is to run roughshod in this Parliament and override these people without so much as a by-your-leave is compounding the very error that this bill claims to be correcting. That is what is wrong with this. That is what is wrong with this and that is why we are not going to back off and be shouted down. I believe it can be resolved. For our part New Zealand First will put the intellectual and professional firepower in to find the truth behind this matter. Because it is not possible—and we know in our Māori world this: what is the No. 1 principle of Polynesia or the Māori world? They who live on the land who keep the land warm they who are there should be the first voices on any matter. That is our rule—it has been for centuries. Why now have we got a group of parliamentarians including some people who know nothing about this issue telling us that they can correct it? In short if we cannot fix up this area area by area and not go for the clobbering-machine solution let us give it to iwi have all the fights internal—and then the Government members will get up in Parliament and say: "But we gave you all the land. We gave you all the money. Now it's your problem. Now it's your problem." I can see them wiping their hands of it and then they come in here with their fawned passion and concern. By gee how I despise that. How many Māori out there are homeless? Tens of thousands of them. How many are in our prisons? Tens of thousands of them. Do those members have any priority about giving Māori a fair go in their own country? No they bring in 70000 foreigners every year to compete against Māori and they stand up here and say they are concerned about Māoridom. No they are not. They are concerned about their own political longevity. And I am telling you—mark my words—we will campaign on this issue all the way to the next election. We find out up there in Whangaroa who knows what they are talking about. I want those members to turn up in Whangaroa and explain themselves but of course if they did they would be run out of town. They would be run out of town as a former Minister was when he went up there. So I say: "Tread lightly. Listen to what the local people are saying." Why do we not come with a total resolution and not a half-pie settlement that even in its own drafting says that this matter will end up in the courts again. That is not legislation; that is foolery."