4. Question No. 4—HousingHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of HousingQuestion No. 4—Housing4. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of Housing: How many people left quarantine or managed isolation between 23 May and 16 June and how many of those people if any left without a COVID-19 test being taken?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): I'm advised by the all-of-Government group that the total number of people who have left a managed isolation or quarantine facility between 23 May and 16 June was 4694. The Ministry of Health have to date been unable to provide the number who have left without a test and are still working through that matter. The Government's expectation was that these people completed 14 days of managed isolation which is in line with public health advice of the most effective measure to protect New Zealand against COVID-19 spread. Relying on the 14-day period is the best defence as evidenced by the extensive surveillance testing that has been ongoing which has yet to find any evidence of community transmission since 1 May. But as the Prime Minister has said in the House today Ministers were assured by the Ministry of Health that as we move to level 1 as an additional layer of assurance no one would leave managed isolation or quarantine without returning a negative test. There have been well-documented issues with those expectations translating into operational change and that's exactly what myself and Air Commodore Webb have begun fixing. Following the implementation of our plan of strengthening procedures at our facilities no one is leaving without returning a negative test.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is it possible that every person released after 14 days of managed isolation between those days was released without being COVID tested?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: From the evidence that I have seen in terms of the number of people that left it is not possible that that was the case.Hon Michael Woodhouse: How can she be that confident in her answer if she has no idea what testing occurred during those dates?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Because I have been advised by the Ministry of Health that some people were receiving testing between those dates.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does she think it completely implausible that despite finding 11 cases in seven days after quarantine testing commenced there were no positive cases in quarantine for the previous 24 days when there was no testing?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Surveillance testing would suggest that it is entirely plausible that we didn't have cases. What the member needs to realise is the changing demographic inside our managed isolation and quarantine facilities. As the world opens up we see people arriving either transiting through Australia or coming directly from other parts of the world in a place where COVID is growing not slowing. I am not surprised that we are seeing people who are in our managed isolation facilities with COVID. The important thing is that we are catching these within these facilities and this is a strong line of defence to New Zealanders and the gains they have made.Hon Michael Woodhouse: In respect of that previous answer what was demographically different about the 4694 people released from quarantine in that period from the more than 10000 who went through managed isolation and quarantine prior to that?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Largely where those people arrived from. What we have is through the early days when we were in level 4 a lot of people returning to New Zealand were returning from Australia where there were much lower rates of COVID. What the member needs to understand is that now we are seeing people returning from the UK. We are seeing people returning from the USA. We are seeing people return from India. We are seeing people return from Pakistan. These are all parts of the globe where COVID is growing not slowing and it is our strong line of defence at the border that we have managed isolation and quarantine facilities that will protect the gains that New Zealand has made.Hon Chris Hipkins: Has she been advised that the number of positive tests at the border in other comparable countries like Australia has also been increasing and that we're likely to see an ongoing increase in the number of positive tests at the border?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I certainly have. The whole point when we have positive tests in our quarantine facilities and managed isolation facilities is that the system is working—that this is part of how it is that we protect New Zealanders against quarantine. I'd like to point out it is the ability to carefully manage and robustly manage these facilities that will protect New Zealanders not ad hoc announcements about just opening the border without any plan of how you're going to manage those facilities.Hon Michael Woodhouse: In respect of her previous answer to me is it her submission to this House that New Zealanders were not arriving back from the UK Europe the United States and the subcontinent prior to 23 May?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Of course New Zealanders were arriving back prior to that but we did not have mandatory managed isolation; we had people self-isolating. If the member wants to turn his mind back to the days when we were in level 4 we had a growing number of cases testing positive that largely were coming from people returning from overseas. The difference the member now needs to understand is these people are not returning to their homes; they are in managed isolation facilities as a stronger manner of defence. What the member also has to understand is we are now at over 8.5 million cases of COVID around the world. This is growing not slowing and I suggest that member stop politicking and think about how it is that we protect New Zealand.Rt Hon Winston Peters: If the Opposition thesis is true would we have had those countless weeks and even existing now without any community transmission in this country at all?Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Deputy Prime Minister should know he can't ask a Minister what the Opposition thinks which is the wording he used in his question.SPEAKER: I don't think that's what he said at all. I'll ask him to repeat the question for the member's benefit.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I'll do it slowly and I've got a picture if I have to show it as well.Hon Gerry Brownlee: Well we'll check in Hansard. That's what he said.SPEAKER: Order! Order! What I said was I didn't think that's what he said and I'll ask him to repeat is so we know.Rt Hon Winston Peters: If the Opposition thesis is true then how would we have had all these weeks without community transmission in this country even right to this hour?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: The member is absolutely correct. New Zealanders can have faith that what we have in place has put them in an incredibly privileged position through their weeks of sacrifice. All we are asking of New Zealanders that are now returning to New Zealand to re-join our team of 5 million is that they make two weeks of sacrifice of going into managed isolation. We got to this privileged position by all of us making a sacrifice of five weeks. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Jacqui Dean will stand withdraw and apologise.Hon Jacqui Dean: I withdraw and apologise.Hon Chris Hipkins: Does she believe that the enforcement of the testing regime would be more or less rigorous if it was delegated to individual tertiary education providers including the universities who don't think the border should have been closed in the first place?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I think one of the things that everybody has to understand is the complexity of the operations that need to be run at the border.Hon Dr Nick Smith: It's simple—just test.Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I hear members of the Opposition say it's simple. I'd like to point out that to the end of June we will have spent $81 million with a workforce of over 500. It's not simply booking a hotel. The operations that have to be onsite are incredibly complex and logistically difficult.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does she agree with the Prime Minister that The 14 days is actually the most cautious approach. Belts and braces are testing but the 14 days is what matters." and if so why is testing important now when it wasn't three weeks ago?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: In answer to the first part of the question: always. In answer to the second part of the question as we have moved into level 1 as we have moved into a more relaxed state where we have more liberties and more mingling our Government is determined to make sure we are putting an extra layer of defence to protect the gains that New Zealanders have made."