Barry Maggie: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeBarry Maggie: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 29 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5447. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon MAGGIE BARRY (Minister for Arts Culture and Heritage): E te Tiamana tēnā koe huri noa i te Whare Pāremata me ngā mihi ki ngā mema katoa.[Greetings Mr Chairman the House of Parliament and all the members throughout.]We come now to the preliminary provisions clause 3 which we have heard a very slanted interpretation of a few moments ago. The words “wasteful” “silly” and “illogical” have occurred and that about sums up the arguments we have heard so far. I would add “spurious” to that as well.When we talk about doing something as important as changing the flag of this fair country—and we have had three flags already in our history. We signalled it before the last election. We were absolutely clear there would be a referendum because this is a Government that cares about our nationhood. This is a Government that cares about how we define ourselves and how we are seen on the world stage.So how do we go about this process? Do we go for some budget foolish mad not-likely-to-succeed scenario as outlined by the previous speaker Jacinda Ardern or do we try to do it as fairly as possible? For something that is as important as our national symbol which is often confused with the Australian flag we need to go to the people. We need to let the people decide what that symbol should be. It is very important that we do it by two referendums because that is the fairest way of doing it.Preferential voting where people can list the top four flags in order of preference means that if for example somebody chooses a flag that is not everyone else’s first choice their options will not be discounted. The second choice will also come into play. It is a fairer system—something the Opposition knows little about. When we then come to consideration about the prospect of choice—again something of an unknown for the Opposition—we look at giving people options. If you are going to ask people whether they would like a change the first question they would ask is: what we are going to change to? So it is important to have a lengthy well-considered process by people who are independent from Parliament to sit down and analyse it.This week I understand the Flag Consideration Panel narrowed it down to about 12 flags. It will then be narrowing it down further. The response incidentally has been tremendous—more than 10000 designs. More than 10000 options have been considered. What does that tell you? What it tells me is that the children the young people the middle-aged people and the old people in this country are united in wanting to have a say about it. Labour members prefer being dictatorial. That is why they are on the Opposition benches. They will remain there if they continue with this nonsense. I hope they do because they do not deserve to be in charge of this fine country. What we are seeing through this consideration process is a level of engagement that is going to really I think inform us well. There is no presumption of change. The legislation will come through my ministry the Ministry for Culture and Heritage so I have been taking a keen interest in the way that it plays out.The referendum process will allow a very fair analysis and assessment of what people want.Denis O’Rourke: No it won’t—not this referendum process.Hon MAGGIE BARRY: I find it ironic that we hear some braying from the “Winston First Party”—oh New Zealand First of course. Those members are saying that they are usually in favour of referendums but oh not in this case because they did not think of it—because they want to be contrarians. That is their point of difference: negative contrariness. That about sums up that party.When we come back to sensible middle-ground processes where we are attempting to give New Zealanders a say the two-part referendum which is in clause 3 of this bill is very very fair. Clause 6—preferential voting I have outlined as being I think the fairest. But when we come to that second referendum in next March or so it is going to be first past the post. There will be two flags to choose from. That will be the time for people who do not want a change to stand up and say “We want to stick with the one that we have.” or “We rather like this other one.”Personally having just toured the battlefields of western France and Belgium in November last year and I was there for the commemorations of the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month the symbol that defines New Zealand is the silver fern. It is on every New Zealander’s grave and all of the Commonwealth graves. It is the symbol that we are recognised by. So go figure—someone like me with an enduring interest in conservation would find that a silver fern for example is an excellent symbol. I will be looking with an open mind at those flags that they are letting us choose from—the four of them—as to which one we would like. The Commonwealth war graves are something that many of us who are genuine patriots about this country—not the kind of people who knock it wherever possible.I believe that this is the fairest system. I believe the Act will bind the Crown and I think that the referendum process is excellent.