Bridges SimonHon SIMON BRIDGES (National—Tauranga): I speak on this Local Electoral (Māori Wards and Māori Constituencies) Amendment Bill new clause 7A section 19ZGA Process For Disestablishing Māori Wards or Māori Constituencies". I think the simple point—which certainly Dr Smith was making—is simply this: yin has yang. The Hon Nanaia Mahuta liked that—see that was good. She disagrees with everything I'm saying but at least she smiled I'll give her that. If on the one side you're going to allow for the establishment—or the resolving or whatever the words are in the bill—of Māori wards you should allow for the disestablishment.We could complicate this. We could talk about—but that is the simple point. It is not all one way and nor should it be in a modern democracy that is vibrant and that is thriving where Māori are increasingly confident and standing in local government and in central government and doing incredibly well when they do that. I say actually we should have the one and the other. It's a very simple point.It's worth just dwelling for a second on the counterfactual if you like which is what we've got—the status quo. If—let's be honest: when—this bill passes sad to say without change—because it just seems to be the position of this Government on this. I think where we've got to—and we agree; I'll take Dr Smith's or the Hon Nanaia Mahuta's guidance on this—is a position in the law where it's not quite that you can never disestablish but it's certainly true that for at least two triennium—I think that's the word they use in the law—two election cycles from 2022 there can be no change. Even if that's not never in terms of disestablishing Māori wards what it certainly is is a sense of a privileging of Māori wards. They really want to imbed these lock these in with the vested interests and so on that will mean it is incredibly hard if not impossible to change the position from the quasi-compulsion that we're getting on Māori wards. The simple points are these: if you've got one you should have the other; if you're going to establish you should have a disestablishment power—there is none at the current time. Secondly look let's not screw the scrum. I know the Chair's got views on that phrase but anyway let's not screw the scrum in this bill. The reason if we go into the substance of it why I believe there should be a power to disestablish Māori wards or constituencies is along the lines of something I heard Christopher Luxon say. That is that in a modern Treaty relationship it's entirely misguided it seems to me—actually it's wrong—to say the only way you can do that the only way to provide for the Treaty is to ensure that we're making compulsory effectively Māori wards. That's not the only way to do it. In fact in all the conversations I've ever had with iwi leaders—from iwi from the bottom of the South to the top of the North—that's never been where their headspace is at actually. What they have wanted is something that is more akin to partnership and strategic. It is a discussion—not always a meeting of the minds but at least a face-to-face discussion and understanding on the big issues that affect central government and presumably also local government as well.So just to go for this sort of crass simplistic view of what's got to be in local government with a screwing of the scrum to Māori wards that's wrong. There are plenty of other ways to do it. I also say as a Māori man actually as Māori are increasingly confident we don't need that. There will be a time I believe when actually Māori don't want that. They don't want to just have these siloed wards or constituencies as the only way as where Māori should be. I've rejected that for myself personally. I appreciate everyone's got their different story. I don't want that. I don't want to be over there as "Oh well that's the Māori voice." No. I'm Simon Bridges and I've got my own views on things and that's the way it should be. I believe actually that will be a confidence that more Māori come to in the years and the decades ahead.The final point I wanted to make is simply this—and we've made it in every other speech effectively but it applies to this with equal force: there is an inconsistency here when the rhetoric has been of consistency."