Bayly Andrew; Clark DavidANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): I think the rationale for people like Zespri for people who propagate plant varieties like onions through to flowers—all that different horticulture and there are many many people who spend vast amounts of money to develop new plant species. Just to be clear in the Minister's response there you are saying it is the right thing to do. Is that the only reason you can give for why this committee should have an absolute decision-making authority as opposed to an advisory capacity?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Obviously this is becoming a repetitive debate but again for the sake of the committee these won't apply to the likes of kiwifruit. This is about indigenous species that were here prior to European settlement which the Māori Plant Varieties Committee will have oversight over and a small list of non-indigenous species of significance which has been read out to the House before and academics suggest is very unlikely to be extended.ANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): So just to be clear I'm well aware of the list that is currently being provided in terms of species of plants that Māori are regarded as being kaitiaki of. Do I take it from his response that that list cannot be added to? And the second part can he confirm that if I am for instance creating a new form of kiwifruit there will be no right for that to have to go—if you're seeking an application for a plant variety species there will be no requirement for that to go before the Māori Plant Varieties Committee?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Again I'll reiterate that this clause of the bill applies to indigenous species of plants and also that small list that was brought in before European settlement—it's in the bill: 1769—and academics have been very clear in their advice that it's unlikely that list will be extended to any significant degree. It's a theoretical possibility—it's not ruled out completely—but I think the committee when it considered the evidence also accepted that it was very unlikely that would be extended very far if at all.ANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): Thank you. So I suppose just to give a practical example: potatoes. And one of the members was just talking about them in relation to the free-trade agreement we've just signed with the UK. Potatoes—as opposed to kūmara—for instance that's quite a significant export market for New Zealand. Of course you'll know plant varieties like the Pukekohe long keeper which was developed in Pukekohe obviously. If that is a plant variety—and that is an active crop now—would that as an example need to go before the Māori Plant Varieties Committee because it would be deemed maybe to have been brought into New Zealand and related to the kūmara crop? I'm trying to give a real-life example because if you're saying that only known species that came into New Zealand were imported from the Cook Islands or wherever or were indigenous to New Zealand prior to European settlement if that is the only grounds to go to the Māori Plant Varieties Committee that will obviously give some comfort to people listening.Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Thank you Mr Chair. I think it might be helpful just to reiterate that list for the committee. On that list currently we expect will be kuru breadfruit; hue which is gourd or calabash; aute which is paper-mulberry; karaka or kōpī; paratawhiti or paraa; perei; kūmara; taro; tī pore which is the Pacific cabbage tree; and whikaho which is yam.ANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): OK. Obviously potato is not included in that; so that's very helpful. How does the list get expanded—if it indeed gets expanded? What is the process for that list because obviously then the role of the Māori Plant Varieties Committee has an important place in that? Who decides on whether indigenous species or whatever might be added? And what's the process for that?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Well a kaitiaki relationship would need to be established.Andrew Bayly: Sorry?Hon Dr DAVID CLARK: A kaitiaki relationship. As canvassed previously a kaitiaki relationship would need to be established.Melissa Lee: Point of order. I think it would be really helpful if the microphone of the Minister is checked because I could hardly hear his answer. If you could actually get that sorted. Thank you Mr Chair. If I could actually take a call.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): So the point of order is now complete and you are going for the call?Melissa Lee: Yes Mr Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): I'll do my best to fix the point of order.Melissa Lee: Even the Chair's microphone is not working so we're really struggling to hear. If the Minister could—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Can I just check. Is that better? We're not sitting close enough?Hon Todd McClay: It is working now but it's not perfect.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): OK.