Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:628;Page:259] 
8.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Minister of Energy 
: Does he agree with the statement by Keith Turner Chief Executive of Meridian Energy on  
Campbell Live 
 Monday 14 November that “we have not kept up with the investment programme that transmission requires.” and “we are running just too close to the wind in this country particularly on the transmission front.”; if so who is responsible? 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Minister of Energy) 
: 
 This Government believes that New Zealand needs significant investment in transmission capacity. In conjunction with Transpower and the Electricity Commission we are addressing the issue. Transpower is currently spending over $100 million to upgrade parts of the grid and also has advanced plans to spend more than $1 billion on major upgrades of lines into Auckland and elsewhere. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Can the Minister simply answer the question of whether he agrees with the statement made by Dr Turner who said further: “The New Zealand electricity grid is so overworked that lines cannot be taken out of action for servicing. That is unheard of in the Western developed world.”? Does he agree with that statement made by Dr Turner and with his earlier statements; if so who is responsible for our transmission system— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: You would have sold it off. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Ministers are the same as members on their last warning for interjecting during a question. Please continue. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: There was a further member who interjected. He should own up. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry but I did not hear that interjection at all. People do talk. The other was a clear interjection however. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: So was the one from Damien O’Connor. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I did not hear that one. 
Hon Damien O'Connor 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I did interject but it was after the member had finished his question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Was it after he had sat down—after he had finished his question? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I was in the middle of a sentence. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well maybe you took a long pause. I apologise to the member; I had thought he had finished. I certainly heard the first interjection but I did not hear the second. If the member said that he did not make an interjection when you were asking the question I will take his word for it. But I did hear the other interjection which did occur then. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I will ask the question again. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please do. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. If we are going to have points of order then let us also note that Mr Brownlee was interjecting while you were making a ruling which is also out of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes I did note that. Mr Brownlee may I say that you are on your last warning for interjecting when the Speaker is speaking. Thank you. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does the Minister also agree with this statement made by Dr Turner: “The New Zealand electricity grid is so overworked that some lines cannot be taken out of action for servicing. That is unheard of in the Western developed world.” and does that statement not confirm gross neglect by the Labour Government of our electricity network? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I am not aware whether some of the words attributed to Dr Turner are embellishments made by the member or were said but I do repeat that the Government does accept there is a significant need for investment in transmission capacity. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to table the direct quote from Dr Turner that was reported in the  
New Zealand Herald 
 which contained the exact words I used in my supplementary question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I am left in an impossible position. The Minister refuses to answer my question by saying he is not sure of the source of the comment from the chief executive of New Zealand’s largest electricity company. I then seek leave to table the document that verifies it but I am denied leave. We are in an impossible position whereby effectively the Minister is simply trying to avoid responsibility for his portfolio. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: By way of a solution the member can now ask another supplementary question if he wishes. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is true. But ruling on the point as I heard the Minister’s answer he said he was unsure about the attribution but he then went on to address the question. So I would ask the member to ask another question if he is not satisfied. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why will the Minister not just level with Parliament and the public of New Zealand and admit that he has inherited a mess from Ministers Mallard and Hodgson when Treasury says there is a problem in its briefing for the incoming Government when his own ministry says there is a problem and when Dr Turner says that there is a problem—or does he intend just to stick his head in the sand until the lights go out? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Because the problem is not as bad as the member would have others believe. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Can the Minister assure the House that the process set in place by the previous Minister and already under way will continue—namely that the Electricity Complaints Commissioner will fully investigate whether investments in direct use of gas local biomass fuels and energy efficiency would be a more cost-effective way of ensuring that energy services are secure in Auckland than big new transmission investments? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: Yes and I agree that that inquiry is appropriate. 
Maryan Street 
: In the light of his previous answers why is electricity use growing and what is he doing to ensure that investment in transmission capacity which he referred to earlier will meet future demand? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: We have had 6 years of very strong economic growth—amongst the highest in the OECD—and this has led to increased electricity use. So it is a consequence of success. But in terms of investment in transmission capacity this Government has established the Electricity Commission to ensure that the level of investment in transmission is timely adequate and necessary. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why should the House believe that the investment in transmission infrastructure will be timely as he has just said when after the 2001 power crisis the Government said it was all fixed when after the 2003 electricity crisis the Government said it was all fixed and when now in 2005 Treasury his own ministry and the chief executive of New Zealand’s largest State electricity company are saying that our electricity infrastructure is “unheard of in the Western developed world” in terms of its state of maintenance? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: The member shows his lack of understanding of these issues. The problems in the years that the member mentioned related to the amount of water and therefore electricity able to be generated not to transmission constraints. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why does the Minister say I am overstating the problem when Dr Keith Turner who has a PhD specifically in high-voltage transmission systems is employed by his Government to be in charge of the largest generator and has 30 years of experience in the electricity industry says that the grid is overworked and that the situation in New Zealand is unheard of in the Western developed world? 
Hon DAVID PARKER 
: I do not disagree with Dr Turner when he says we need to upgrade our transmission system.