Turia Tariana: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Turia Tariana: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:646;Page:15789] 
4.  
Hon TARIANA TURIA (Co-Leader—Maori Party) 
 to the  
Minister of Fisheries 
: Will he name the Maori commercial fishers who are plundering the fish stocks; if not why not? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON (Minister of Fisheries) 
: 
 I do not believe that it is productive to start naming individual companies that are guilty of unsustainable fishing practices. Suffice it to say advice frequently comes before me as Minister of Fisheries suggesting that poor environmental performance is an issue right across the fishing industry involving Maori Pakeha and foreign-owned companies. For example I am advised there have been numerous prosecutions of companies both of Maori-owned and other companies for illegal dumping of fish and there is widespread evidence of other dumping which has resulted in warnings to a number of commercial fishers. This is a critical issue because dumped fish cannot be recorded as having been taken— 
Hon Tariana Turia 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I appreciate that you have made rulings on the answering of questions. However my question was very specific and asked the Minister to name the Maori commercial fishers that he has been damning in the media. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: And I will say again to the member as I have said many times in the past that the Standing Orders do not require a specific answer. If that member raises this issue one more time then I do suggest that she goes to the Standing Orders Committee to get the rules changed. My ruling will not change as long as the Minister addresses the question. I think the Minister was somewhat fully addressing the question so perhaps he would like to bring it to a conclusion. 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: This is a crucial issue because dumped fish cannot be recorded as having been taken and therefore dumping undermines the very system upon which we rely to manage sustainability of the fisheries. 
Hon Tariana Turia 
: Why is the Minister not taking any advice from his Cabinet colleagues: the Associate Minister of Fisheries the Hon Parekura Horomia; and the Hon Shane Jones who was a member of Te Ohu Kaimoana the Maori Fisheries Commission for the last 15 years—the last 8 as chairperson—and who has close relationships with and significant knowledge of the Maori fishing industry? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I take advice from all of my Cabinet colleagues regularly and I meet with the Maori caucus on a regular basis. I have to say that they show more concern for the sustainability of fisheries than the member or the Maori Party she represents. 
Louisa Wall 
: Kia ora Madam Speaker. Does the Minister agree with Peter Douglas that Maori have been fishing sustainably for a thousand years and do not need to be told how to conserve resources? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: Europeans have been fishing for well over a thousand years also. Indeed just about every New Zealander could claim an ancestry link to fishing. But the bald truth is that fish stocks all over the world have been seriously depleted by overfishing. This is a problem with common-pool resources. One cannot carve up the sea with fences and manage the resource through individual title; the fishery system requires a referee. Five hundred years ago neither Pakeha nor Maori fishers owned large factory trawlers that could scoop up huge tonnages of fish for export to distant markets; today they can. If fisheries of whatever persuasion take opportunities like that to deplete the sustainable resource of our fisheries then we will have no fish left. And no group who fishes—Maori or Pakeha—will benefit from that. 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: What is the Government’s official position on Maori commercial fishing given that at the morning session of the Maori Fisheries conference the Minister of Maori Affairs—this Minister’s Associate Minister of Fisheries—was fulsome in his praise of Maori fishing interests yet later that same day he attacked the same people by accusing them of irresponsibly plundering fishing resources; or was it that the Minister deliberately set out to make his associate look impotent? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: No Government has been more supportive of Maori fishing and Maori economic development than this one. I have personally led task forces into areas of large Maori populations and ensured that they got the kind of chance they had never had under previous Governments. But the fact is that although fishing resource is a scarce resource it has to be monitored and nurtured carefully and I will say over and over again to any audience that everyone participating in the fishing industry has to take a sustainable approach to that industry or there will be no industry left. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Minister agree that perhaps one of the best examples of traditional and universal adherence to sustainability practices has not always been followed given the unknown whereabouts of the moa? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am not sure that is entirely relevant to ministerial responsibility. 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I will bow to the superior knowledge of the Minister on that matter. 
Hon Tariana Turia 
: Does the Minister recall the warning issued by the Maori Party on 1 February this year that the key to achieving sustainable fisheries management is in maintaining effective communication between Maori commercial fishers and the Minister and his ministry; and what commitment will he now make to address the grave communication breakdown that currently exists between all parties? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: The fishing industry—Maori or Pakeha and recreational customary as well as commercial—knows that my door has been open from day one and still is. I meet regularly with all elements of the fishing industry. Only last Friday I chaired the meeting of the fishery advisory committee that this Government set up early in its term. 
Pita Paraone 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker. In view of the Minister’s recent comments regarding plundering “of fish stocks until there is none left” by Maori commercial fishery interests can he advise whether the same interests had been consulted about these concerns before making his comments; if so what was their response? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I do not think the fishing industry will die wondering about my muse on this matter and the industry has had it represented from me on many occasions. 
Hon Tariana Turia 
: Does the Minister believe that he can be an effective Minister when the majority of the New Zealand fishing industry has no faith in his ability; and when will he take on board the advice of his Cabinet colleague the Hon Nanaia Mahuta that people should stop taking pot-shots at each other and should work together? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: The issue before New Zealand in terms of fisheries is that the wild fisheries resource is a very fragile one and that all elements of the industry concerned in the utilisation of that resource have to take the utmost caution—a precautionary approach to fishing—and that is the approach I have urged on the fishing industry. If the industry does not take that approach then inevitably all those who rely on the fishing industry for any economic sustenance will be the victims. I wish that the member asking this question would take aboard that message and pass it back to those who are informing her of their views on this matter.