Whanganui Iwi (Whanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Whanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill — In Committee 
Whanganui Iwi (Whanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Whanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:671;Page:17821] 
Whanganui Iwi (Whanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Whanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill 
In Committee 
Debate resumed from 17 February. 
Clauses 1 and 2 ( 
continued 
) 
KELVIN DAVIS (Labour) 
: 
 It seems like only a month ago that we were last debating this bill and we got to the riveting stage of debating the title. If I recall correctly there was intense debate and discussion over the inclusion of the letter “h” in Whanganui. We spoke about the whole debate that occurred on whether Whanganui should be called “Whanganui” or “Wanganui”. 
I also raised the issue that up north back in the 1800s the “wh” in Maori words was offensive to the ears of the missionaries. They did not like words such as “whakarongo” because of the first couple of syllables of words like that. What they tried to get us to do up there—or so I am told by an esteemed kaumatua in Ngati Hine—was to stop saying the “f” sound. They wanted us to pronounce a word such as “whakarongo” as “hakarongo” by dropping the “w” in that word. It is interesting to note that in the Treaty of Waitangi the word “whenua” spelt with wh” and pronounced as “f” actually has the “h” dropped out of it. Instead it is pronounced “w’enua” which is similar to the way it is pronounced by the Hon Tariana Turia. That is just an interesting little part of the whole debate on this bill’s title. 
The other interesting Maori word in the Whanganui Iwi (Wanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Wanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill is the word “Kaitoke”. “Kai” as most New Zealanders will know means to eat or it means food; “toke” is the Maori word for “worms”. I hazard a guess that there is a very interesting legend or story around the way that Kaitoke got its name. No doubt it is about somebody eating or having a feed on a whole heap of worms but actually I should not guess because I am not from there and it is not for me to invent the history of another iwi. 
Certainly there has been a lot of debate on the Maori words and Maori names in this bill. We recall the angst of a group of children from Otaki School who dared to challenge Michael Laws and his stance on the letter “h” being included in Whanganui. He did not want the “h” in Whanganui. In his opinion Whanganui should be Wanganui. 
JO GOODHEW (Junior Whip—National) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I seek your assistance and ask whether you can give me some guidance as to how much debate we have had on clauses 1 and 2—how many speeches we have already had—so that I can have some indication of the progress we have made in this debate previously. 
Grant Robertson 
: Point of order— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: No I will handle this. There have been two calls because the previous speaker Kelvin Davis was finishing off a speech from the other day. Two calls have been taken. 
Hon MARYAN STREET (Labour) 
: 
 It is a pleasure to speak again in this debate on the Whanganui Iwi (Whanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Whanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill. This time I do not wish to traverse the history the settlement process the creation of the Crown Forestry Rental Trust and all of that background material because I have done that before when speaking to this bill. I want to focus very tightly on the title because that is what we are talking about. 
When I was a child growing up in New Plymouth we learnt to say “Wanganui”. We came from New Plymouth and we did not know better so we said Wanganui. It was Wanganui Prison and Wanganui Collegiate School—not too much difference. We learnt to say that name as “Wanganui” but over the course of the intervening decades clearly the re-emergence and the reassertion of te reo have made people more sensitive to the way that things are expressed and to the way that Maori words are pronounced. We have got to the point now where the people around the Whanganui area have clearly asserted causing some rancour in the area that they wish to have the name “Whanganui” with the “h” in it and to have it pronounced in the way that the Hon Tariana Turia pronounces it frequently in the Chamber. It is pronounced as “W’anganui” rather than “Whanganui” which may relate to another part of the country and another expression of Maori pronunciation. 
But what I find interesting about this issue is that the Maori Affairs Committee in its report was really quite decisive about why this spelling should change. I will just quote from its commentary for a moment: “We heard from the Southern Whanganui Cluster Working Party that they strongly feel that the spelling of Whanganui should be with an ‘h’. On 18 December 2009 the Minister of Land Information announced his decision to assign the alternative official geographic names ‘Whanganui’ and ‘Wanganui’”—without the “h”—“and stated his expectation that Crown agencies would adopt the ‘Whanganui’ form over time. We also strongly feel that Whanganui should be spelt with an ‘h’.” 
There are a couple of interesting things about that. The Minister for Land Information in fact in announcing his decision did so in the time-honoured tradition of Ministers who wish for things to be not noticed. He announced it on 18 December just before Christmas hoping that it would fall into the abyss and that he would not be subjected to the kind of debate and disapproval that had been characteristic of the argument about the name in Whanganui. But the implication from the Maori Affairs Committee report is that the Minister felt strongly about the use of this name. If he had felt strongly about it then he might have released a decision earlier than 18 December 2009. However the select committee said: “We also strongly feel that Whanganui should be spelt with an ‘h’.” I welcome that. I do not believe for a moment that that was the Minister’s position and that the Maori Affairs Committee was simply adding its weight to it. However we have the spelling now as it stands with the “h” in it. 
When we look around the country we see it is quite clear that there are dialectical differences within te reo that require different pronunciations. In the South Island where I live now we talk about Kai Tahu instead of Ngai Tahu and we talk about Aoraki instead of Aorangi. The “ng” sound is replaced with a “k” sound so there are dialectical differences. But here the Maori Affairs Committee has been quite emphatic about recommending the amending of the spelling of Wanganui (Kaitoke) Prison to Whanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and the northern part of Wanganui Forest to the northern part of Whanganui Forest. I hope for the sake of the  
Hansard 
 that the distinction between the spelling with the “h” and without the “h” is clear from my pronunciation. I hope that is of assistance to the  
Hansard 
 recorders. 
The other thing of interest is not only the spelling used in the title but also something that is quite difficult. It is the business of an on-account settlement and the deed of on-account settlement which is part of the title Whanganui Iwi (Wanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Wanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill. If we go to the definitions in order to read an explanation of the title we find that clause 4 in Part 1 “Preliminary provisions” defines “deed of on-account settlement as being “the deed of an on-account settlement of historical claims of Whanganui Iwi in relation to the Whanganui Kaitoke Prison and part of the Whanganui Forest between the working party on behalf of Whanganui Iwi the trustees of the Pakaitore Trust and the Crown dated 31 July 2009 and as amended from time to time”. In other words the title reflects the settlement. The title tries to describe those parts of the Whanganui area that are now being handed over to Whanganui iwi in settlement of breaches of the Treaty that have occurred over time. 
So we come to the title of the bill which describes exactly what the bill contains but also has a reference that I as a student of language in a former life find to be really interesting. I think that when the Minister for Land Information took up his portfolio he did not expect there to be such agitation— 
Grant Robertson 
: A crisis. 
Hon MARYAN STREET 
: —crisis argument and debate around the word and the name as there have been. Michael Laws was attacking the proposed spelling change and really ramping up Pakeha agitation about te reo a Maori renaissance and a Maori assertion of Treaty settlement obligations. The Minister did not want to be caught in the middle of all that. In the end he released his decision on the name a few days before Christmas so that anybody who was at all interested might well have missed it. 
I welcome the bill. I look forward to its progress and movement to its third reading. Thank you. 
JO GOODHEW (Junior Whip—National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Labour—Ikaroa-Rawhiti) 
: 
Tena koe Mr Chair Tisch. I listened to my learned friend Kelvin Davis who is a former principal. He gave a great translation. I saw Te Ururoa Flavell over there nodding his head so I tended to accept it and be thankful. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: He was just going to sleep. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Mr Williamson would certainly be one member who would want to go to sleep after the changing of the name. I have heard his comments in relation to the “h” in Whanganui. I remember that a long time ago Naida Glavish dared to say “Kia ora.” on the telephone—and Mr Williamson will remember that. There was an uproar about her daring to use a Maori language greeting. I want to celebrate the fact that we have come a long way forward as a nation. We all talk about being one nation and all that sort of stuff but the title of the Whanganui Iwi (Wanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Wanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill is quite exact. 
I want to register my respect and support for the Maori Affairs Committee. I am on that committee and so is Kelvin Davis and it has done a good job in relation to the bill. 
There is one part of the bill that I want to mention even though we are debating the title. The group that brought the settlement to the point of finality is a very very young negotiation team. It is a great example for other iwi and hapu groups to take notice of. 
“Whanganui” can mean a great bay but the addition of the “h” gives surety to the people as surely as they stood firm at Pakaitore. The issue I want to ask the Minister about is that in changing the name and adding the “h” to the name of the forest there are some added technicalities to go through. I wonder what he has done about them. Also with regard to adding “Kaitoke” to the prison’s name I wonder whether he has prepared for and dealt with the technicalities in relation to the justice legislation and regulations. I look forward to the Minister responding to my queries. 
Sandra Goudie 
: What is the member talking about? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The member knows what he is talking about regarding the Maori language. I am more than happy to give free lessons to people who are so naive that they want to distance themselves from a great bill and a commitment to the Treaty settlements that Labour began—and thank goodness—like the other 11 settlements that National is struggling to finish off. I recognise Dr Cullen and pay a bit of respect to the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations. 
At the end of the day this bill is certainly one of the better things that the Government has moved forward. It is one of the better things that the Government has finalised. But I really want to ask the Minister what he has done about the technical issues around the name change. I also commend those people who brought this settlement to an end and negotiated well with the Government. 
The Chairperson reported progress on the Whanganui Iwi (Whanganui (Kaitoke) Prison and Northern Part of Whanganui Forest) On-account Settlement Bill no progress on the Customs and Excise (Joint Border Management Information Sharing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill and no progress on the Airports (Cost Recovery for Processing of International Travellers) Bill. 
Progress reported. 
Report adopted.