1. Question No. 1—Prime MinisterTODD MULLER (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime MinisterWEDNESDAY 24 JUNE 2020The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m. Prayers. ORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Prime Minister1. TODD MULLER (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does she agree with Auckland University School of Medicine Professor Des Gorman that not all of the 2159 people who left managed isolation between June 9 and 16 will probably be tracked down and we have to make the assumption these people have re-seeded the infection in the community"? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): I understand Professor Gorman is an expert in occupational health at Auckland University rather than an epidemiologist. However of course I acknowledge the role that he has played in the medical community. I note though that Auckland University infectious disease specialist Dr Siouxsie Wiles says the chances of—[Interruption] SPEAKER: Order! I'd like to hear the answer to this and I will say to people who are barracking from my left that this question was corrected to make it accurate by me. Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I note Auckland University infectious disease specialist Dr Siouxsie Wiles said the chances of someone leading to community infection after leaving an isolation facility are "very low" and that "If people had gone on to develop symptoms the testing and the isolation of those around them would have kicked in as well. So we're very unlikely to see anything happen from those and if we do it'll be very very minor." Todd Muller: How can she say that when in the absence of testing she can't know that none of those people had COVID-19 when they left managed isolation? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because as most countries around the world have implemented the 14-day isolation period is the most important thing that any country can do to manage cases coming in at the border. That is why when you pan around the world most countries are opting for isolation and quarantine as opposed to a simple testing regime with the reason for that being of course that because of the different time periods at which COVID can manifest the early stage is the most likely stage when you shed infection and the high rate of false negatives can be produced. As Dr Siouxsie Wiles says "That two-week isolation is the really important bit not really the testing—the isolation." Todd Muller: If she is so confident Professor Gorman is incorrect why did her Minister of Health announce a ramped-up testing regime yesterday? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again I would dispute that I would consider that ramped-up. We did that on 9 June—9 June was when we absolutely had a very clear expectation at the time of moving into level 1 that the foundation principles continued to be quarantine but that we wanted the added reassurance of testing. I say again in this House we were the ones that set that expectation wanted it to be met were assured that it had and moved decisively when it wasn't. But I would note in this House we are one of the few if not the only country in the world that has both quarantine and isolation and mandatory testing. Todd Muller: Is Otago University Professor Michael Baker correct that National's criticism of her Government's health response is justified because this is—and I quote—"a matter of life and death."? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: This is an issue we of course take very seriously. This is why we moved to bring in the defence force to ensure that our expectation of testing twice during quarantine was being met and of course that is the reason we have some of the most stringent border controls in the world. Only Australia that I can see practises the same method of using Government-approved facilities but we are the ones that are mandating testing as well. Hon Chris Hipkins: Does the Prime Minister believe that adherence to the testing regime would be more or less reliable if management of quarantine and isolation facilities was devolved to tertiary education providers—who don't believe the border should've been closed in the first place—as proposed by the Opposition? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The member does make a good point. Our regime demonstrates our view that this has to be very tightly controlled and managed. I have seen proposals suggesting that we essentially contract out quarantine and isolation to providers who wish to operate international education opportunities and manage their own isolation. We are concerned that such suggestions at this point would be irresponsible—and I make that point to the member who seemed to support that. David Seymour: If such a suggestion would be irresponsible did the Prime Minister ever ask Ashley Bloomfield "Those people being released early from quarantine—you're testing them right?" Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That was the stated policy. David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister think it acceptable that one of my constituents advised by Healthline to be tested had to wait four hours at the St Lukes community-based assessment centre in her electorate of Mt Albert? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No but I would point out that yesterday we had a record of more than 9000 individuals tested—9000—and the positives of course that we had were at the border. So that does demonstrate that at that raft of testing we may have some congestion. I don't consider that to be an acceptable wait. I am happy to follow up on the member's concern but it does demonstrate the suggestion from the member that we have an issue with community transmission to date and our testing is not bearing that out. Todd Muller: Why do we repeatedly see examples of what she says is happening in the border response on the ground actually not happening? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously I refute the broad premise of that question.Todd Muller: Why does the Ministry of Health still not know how many of the 2159 people who left managed isolation—whether they have received a test? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The director-general did share data that he had available today in his 1.30 press conference. Todd Muller: How many people have left managed isolation without a test? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The director-general would've talked today about the fact that 2159 left from 9 June to 16 June. They were all in quarantine or managed isolation for 14 days. They all had a medical check. None of them had symptoms at departure. The majority—1249—had been tested. Todd Muller: When she said of New Zealand's contact tracing capability on 28 April—and I quote—"You'll remember of course the Director-General pointed to his view that we have reached a gold standard." have the events of the past week proved that this was probably nonsense? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: No I wouldn't say that that would be the case. Again we're actually talking about individuals who have completed—and the member would do well to reflect on this. Every single person that that member is talking about has spent 14 days in quarantine or managed isolation. As one of the few countries in the world who mandates it at our border and now one of the only countries in the world I can find that requires every single person coming into the country not only to isolate but to have a test that makes us the strictest. Hon Grant Robertson: Can the Prime Minister confirm that over the last 14 days there have been more than 50000 tests undertaken in New Zealand and that there have been no reports of community transmission? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes; in fact Professor Michael Baker actually points out his view that the reporting of our results should differentiate between those cases that are at our border because that is very very different than what the member across the aisle is trying to imply is happening in New Zealand. Todd Muller: Can the Prime Minister confirm for the House: was it her expectation that those 2159 people who left managed isolation would have had a test before they left? Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Absolutely—which is why I brought in the defence force."