Adams Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Adams Paul: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:614;Page:10664] 
12.  
PAUL ADAMS (United Future) 
 to the  
Minister of Labour 
: Does she stand by her statement yesterday regarding aspects of the Employment Relations Law Reform Bill that “The Government considers that skilled employees are in fact an asset of the business and just like plant capital and goodwill are seen as assets so should employees. So we do not see in this instance that it will be a detriment.”; if so why? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Minister of Labour) 
: 
 Yes because the bill requires apart from the vulnerable employee sector that buyers and sellers of a business turn their minds to what should happen to employees when a business is sold. I understand that this already happens in many transactions. 
Paul Adams 
: If such employees are always a valuable asset whose retention will not be detrimental to the business concerned why does the Minister see the need for legislation to protect them when this is surely a business decision for employers to make as they are the people most capable of recognising these skills? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: That is why the legislation provides for a process not an outcome. It enables the employer and the employee to determine the best situation that applies to them in those circumstances. 
Dave Hereora 
: Why is the continuity of employment provisions important in developing productive employment relationships? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: During the period of economic adjustment in the 1980s and 1990s New Zealand unfortunately lost too many skilled employees and at a time when there is a global skill shortage—and that is recognised by everyone—it is important that we do all we can to attract and to retain skilled employees. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: Does the Minister believe that saddling the purchaser of an ailing company with its employees and limiting the ability of the buyer to make changes to staffing and management practices are in fact positive moves; if so why? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The bill does not saddle an employer with new employees. The provisions of the reform bill provide for a process to be discussed between the employees and the employer as to what would be appropriate in those circumstances. I note that the provisions do not apply to those businesses that are bankrupt or insolvent in some way. 
Paul Adams 
: Does the Minister concede that despite her view of skilled employees as assets a new owner cannot sell staff unlike plant and machinery and does she agree that if new employers have to pay redundancy then existing staff may be a liability? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: That is a view towards employees that some employers might have. In my experience most in fact do see their employees as being a valuable contribution to their business. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: Given the Minister’s answer before when she noted that the provisions do not saddle employers with the staff and she noted that they do not apply to businesses that are insolvent or bankrupt does she agree that many businesses such as restaurants will go into insolvency or bankruptcy because new purchasers will not want to hire the staff? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No the evidence is that when buying a business in those instances it is frequently important to retain good staff who know the customers and can continue the profitability of the business. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Supplementary question. No New Zealand First has had its allocated quota. 
Peter Brown 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We had 10 questions yesterday 10 on Tuesday and we are entitled to 11 once a week. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No there were 11 yesterday—I am sorry. The member’s party has had its week’s questions. 
Sue Bradford 
: Is the Minister concerned for future employment relations and the welfare of employees should a United Future or National MP ever have Cabinet responsibility for employment relations— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I want the question asked without reference to that point about United Future or National. I want the member to ask the question she wants to ask but without reference to the parties because they are no responsibility of the Minister. The member can come back to it if she wants. 
Paul Adams 
: Does she agree that the provision in the Employment Relations Law Reform Bill compelling new owners or contract holders to take on existing staff may have the unintended consequence of forcing employers to make their own staff redundant? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The provisions of the bill that require the transfer of employees relate to vulnerable employees only. It is important to understand that point. Also the other question of whether employers would deliberately make people redundant is covered in terms of the new employer if in fact that happens as a result of the transfer.