Alexander Marc: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Alexander Marc: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:615;Page:11165] 
5.  
MARC ALEXANDER (United Future) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Does he consider that the privately managed Auckland Central Remand Prison delivers a lesser standard of management with lower outcomes than State-managed prisons; if so why? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 No. All prisons in New Zealand including the Auckland Central Remand Prison are Government-monitored and on the whole are well managed. 
Marc Alexander 
: In light of the fact that the privately managed Auckland Central Remand Prison achieves a yearly saving of $29000 per inmate yet the Minister’s continued ideological objection to private prisons means that such facilities will close has he informed the Minister of Finance that his decision forfeits a potential saving of half a billion dollars to the taxpayer per year; if so what was Dr Cullen’s response? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Firstly I do not agree with the figures. It is important in this debate to compare apples with apples. My understanding is that when the costs of remand prisoners in the private prison are compared with the costs of the prison service around the country one finds that the public prison service is about $7000 cheaper per inmate. Secondly the reality is that the Government thinks that incarcerating people taking people’s liberty away should be the role of the Government not the private sector. 
Martin Gallagher 
: Why has the Government decided to take the administration of the Auckland Central Remand Prison back into the public sector? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The taxpayer funded the building of the Auckland Central Remand Prison and the previous National Government turned the state-of-the-art facility over to the private sector to manage. Labour made it clear in two election manifestos that the management of the Auckland Central Remand Prison would return to the public sector. That is consistent with the Government’s belief that punishment and incarceration should be the responsibility of the Government and should not be contracted out to private operators to make a profit. 
Ron Mark 
: Is it not the case that a man described as a serious security threat to our country—a man who has had a security risk certificate issued against him because of his terrorist links—Mr Ahmed Zaoui has been transferred from the State-run maximum security prison of Paremoremo to the medium-security Auckland Central Remand Prison because it is safer better run and more secure and will stand up better to Amnesty International’s investigation or is it because the Minister does not consider Zaoui to be a threat? 
Keith Locke 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question is inaccurate because the security risk certificate is not applied under any terrorism criteria in the Immigration Act but under national security criteria. It does not refer to terrorism. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I had a look at the question. Mr Mark showed it to me. That can be something that is subject to debate in question time but I allowed the question. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: No. The reason why he was transferred was after discussion. He needed to be kept in prison and it was felt that that prison was more appropriate. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Does the Minister think that the positive performance indicators of the remand prison are due to it being privately managed or is it some other factor given that the operator Australasian Correctional Management has been the subject of numerous allegations in Australia including allegations of poor management unsafe working conditions substandard services and child abuse according to Dr Louise Newman of the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I have been advised that there have been concerns expressed about Australasian Correctional Management facilities in Australia. However the reason why the Government has decided to return the prison to the public sector is not a concern about the management; it is a concern about the importance of the Government being responsible ultimately for the incarceration of individuals in New Zealand. 
Marc Alexander 
: How did the Minister respond to the chair of the Pacific sector of his own party who said that outlawing private prison management would remove “innovation and excellence from the prison system”; is that proof that not all members of the Labour Party have succumbed to the dogma that stands in the way of common sense? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: In the Labour Party we encourage people to have a wide range of views. The important point about this issue is that although that prison has introduced some innovation I can also tell the member—as he will see if he is prepared to go and visit other prisons—that there is a huge amount of good work and innovation being done in public prisons around New Zealand. 
Marc Alexander 
: What can the Minister say to the six northern iwi who have invested so much time and energy into developing rehabilitative prison programmes in partnership with the Auckland Central Remand Prison other than: “Sorry all of your hard work has been a complete waste of time.”? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Those programmes will continue under public management. 
Marc Alexander 
: Can the Minister confirm that the Government’s opposition to the Auckland Central Remand Prison is based on allegations that it is merely “a ‘claw in the door’ for this ‘golden vulture’ ” the multinational The Wackenhut Corporation which is apparently guilty of sadism violence and sexual abuse—concerns expressed by someone who should loosen the ties on his oft-worn tea cosy? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: No.