Sage EugenieHon EUGENIE SAGE (Minister of Conservation): Tēnā koe Madam Speaker thank you. Pleased to speak to the Shark Cage Diving (Permitting and Safety) Bill and do commend the member for Invercargill Sarah Dowie for the serious effort that she has made to address this issue.So the Wildlife Act is the major mechanism in New Zealand by which we protect wildlife and also by which we regulate hunting. It's part of our responsibilities under an international Convention on the Conservation of Migratory Species of Wild Animals to prohibit the taking—which includes hunting fishing capturing and harassing—of great white sharks. As Ms Dowie noted prior to the Supreme Court decision in Shark Experience Limited v PauaMAC5 Inc. which came out on October 2019 Department of Conservation (DOC) sought to manage great white sharks and shark cage diving under the Wildlife Act by requiring operators to abide by a code of practice and also to gain a permit and also to comply with Maritime New Zealand's vessel safety guidelines. But it was a series of court decisions in the High Court the Court of Appeal and then finally the Supreme Court which determined that the provisions in the Wildlife Act don't enable the Department of Conservation to authorise shark cage diving. So the effect of that decision was that there is currently no mechanism under the Wildlife Act to regulate shark cage diving. It's an uncontrolled activity both in relation to its effects on sharks and to the safety of other users of the sea including recreational fishers commercial fishers pāua divers and the others. So acknowledge that this is the gap which Ms Dowie's bill seeks to fill.As the Supreme Court noted and so did the Court of Appeal the Wildlife Act which is an Act from 1953 had become difficult to use over time because of piecemeal amendments. These are magnificent animals. They were made famous by Jaws. They're one of the few species which are actually protected in the Wildlife Act in one of the schedules along with four other shark species and great white sharks are a threatened species. The population in New Zealand and East Australian waters is estimated at being fewer than 800 animals.So as Minister of Conservation I want to protect both sharks and people. I think the most simple and effective way to do this—to manage the risks to public safety and to protect the sharks—is to prohibit shark cage diving except potentially in defined areas. Because shark cage diving does interfere with the sharks' natural behaviour. As Ms Dowie noted operators put berley or bait in the water to attract the sharks. Australian researchers have noticed that there are detectable changes in the behaviour of great white sharks where there's shark cage diving. They tend to spend more time at the surface and more time at the dive site than they would otherwise.What we have now near Rakiura / Stewart Island is a small—it was originally two operators but potentially it could expand. Some of the risks to sharks from shark cage diving include them becoming seriously injured if they get entangled in the cage and there is at least one example in New Zealand where a shark has got caught in a slot in the cage and been injured. They can get entangled in the ropes which are put out. They can collide with the cage or the boat and there have been instances where they've been seen to have abrasions on their skin from colliding with the cage. So shark cage diving while it only occurs currently at Rakiura could also occur around the Three Kings Islands at Kapowairua Spirits Bay East Cape Fiordland and the Chatham Islands where operators may seek to target blue sharks and shortfin makos as well.So what's the regime overseas? Well generally in areas like Australia South Africa Mexico and California shark cage diving is prohibited except in specific places. In Australia for example it's only allowed in the Neptune Islands Group in South Australia at a site more than 30 kilometres from the coast. In Mexico it's only permitted within the Guadalupe Island Biosphere Reserve that's some 260 kilometres from the mainland coast and it's restricted to a small area there. In California it's only permitted at the Farallon Islands and they're 45 kilometres off the coast and things like chum or baiting and decoys aren't permitted. There's no work that has yet been done in New Zealand to identify areas where shark cage diving could occur without conflict with other users and where it was safe for sharks. So I prefer the approach which has been adopted overseas of a general prohibition and legislation which protects both sharks and people and the Department of Conservation is developing policy with the intention of introducing legislation to do this.This legislation—the legislation DOC is developing—would respond to the concerns of the Rakiura / Stewart Island community. I was on the Local Government and Environment Committee in 2015 when Helen Cave and 768 others presented their petition to the committee. Ken McAnergney and others spoke of the very real fear that they felt going out in small boats near Oban of having people swimming there because they believed that having shark cage diving had acclimatised sharks to boats had got sharks to associate boats with food and they were able to cite instances where sharks had followed small boats and that was creating quite a lot of concern and fear in the community.So this bill is an effort by Ms Dowie to fill that gap with the Supreme Court decision but it is not the appropriate bill because it deals largely with human safety. It has no provisions in it which actually protect sharks it doesn't look at that bigger picture and it doesn't deal with Treaty issues. There is no Treaty clause in this and that is really important because sharks are a taonga species and because there was a comprehensive report by the Waitangi Tribunal making significant recommendations about how the Wildlife Act needs to be amended to provide that—no one owns wildlife to provide for shared management of protected species in line with the principles of Treaty partnership. This Government has determined that we will adopt an integrated approach to the Wai 262 recommendations and that means that any legislation which deals with sharks has to be based on that Treaty partnership. This bill does not include anything in that regard. It misses out on providing more effective protection for sharks and that is the reason why the Green Party is not supporting this bill. Instead as Minister of Conservation I am working with the department to develop some more comprehensive legislation—Hon Dr Nick Smith: Doing nothing.Hon EUGENIE SAGE: —which will protect both sharks and people. Now I hear the Hon Dr Nick Smith shouting in opposition. The reason this hasn't been done today is because this Government was waiting for the Court of Appeal decision and the Supreme Court decision to rule on the interpretation of the provisions in the Wildlife Act which the department had previously thought provided a mechanism for permitting. It wasn't until October 2019 that it became quite clear that there wasn't that mechanism under the Act and the Supreme Court made that ruling. So we are now addressing that gap but we believe we need more comprehensive legislation that deals with Treaty principles—Hon Dr Nick Smith: When will your bill come?Hon EUGENIE SAGE: —that protects both sharks and people. When will it come the member says. It will come when this Government is re-elected and we will do it after the election.