Nash StuartSTUART NASH (Labour—Napier): I will take just a short call on this. First of all I would just like to point out that I think the terminology is wrong in new section 39D(2)(b) inserted by clause 5. It talks about every officer in command of any vessel aircraft or unit of the New Zealand Defence Force:" and then talks about "(c) every Customs officer …" and "(d) every fishery officer …". I would just like to point out a clarification here. I hope that the legislation will use the wide term of the definition of "officer" because in the armed services the term "officer" actually means something different from what it does in the Customs Service or the Ministry for Primary Industries. In the armed services "officer" actually means someone who has been commissioned and has completed officer training. I think this should actually read: "every member in command of any vessel aircraft or unit of the New Zealand Defence Force:" because what we may find is that there are people who are actually non-commissioned officers who are in charge of vessels aircraft or units of the Defence Force who under this legislation actually will not have those arresting powers. I think that would perhaps be an unintended consequence. One thing that I would like to point out here is that I suspect knowing what has gone on in the past that some of these cases will end up in court. I do know in absence of any solid information that what judges may do is they look at the Hansard of the debate to see the intent of Parliament. There are a couple of clauses here that talk about "reasonable in the circumstances". In new section 39B(1) it would "require a person to stop and to remain stopped for a period that is no longer than is reasonable in the circumstances;". In new section 39E(3) it says: "If the arresting officer is not a constable the arresting officer must deliver the arrested person into the custody of a constable as soon as is reasonably practicable …". What I would like to highlight here is that I hope if these do appear before the court that the judge takes into account the definition of "reasonable circumstances" in these situations within which an arrest has occurred. For example we are not talking about an offender who has been caught on Ponsonby Road and there is a reasonable expectation that an officer will turn up in 10 15 or 20 minutes. We may be talking about a circumstance where an arresting officer has made an arrest in a situation where it is unreasonable to expect an officer of the law to turn up in a time that is less than an hour or even 2 hours. So what we absolutely need to ensure I believe is that every case that is prosecuted takes into account that reasonable or practical time in the circumstance within which the arrest was made. There is just one other point I would like to make and that is about new section 39E(2). It talks about: "At the time of arrest the arresting officer must unless it is impracticable to do so … (b) produce evidence that he or she is authorised …". I can envisage a number of circumstances where an arresting officer as defined under this legislation simply has not got any identification on them that would prove to the person when they are making an arrest that they are a fisheries officer that they are a ranger or that they are a member of the New Zealand Defence Force. So again I hope this is taken in the context of what the legislation means and that is we have got to deliver a level of pragmatism around this. We are talking about a situation where often people are out and about in the wilderness out on the beaches or in the rivers and therefore the expectation around what the arresting officer will have on them at the time of the arrest or when an officer can turn up or when they can deliver that person to a constable is a lot different from many other circumstances. One thing I would say is I agree with everyone that this is a fantastic piece of legislation. We absolutely need to tighten up what we can do and who should be able to arrest people who seek to take advantage of our wildlife. So congratulations Minister."