Jones Dail: Prisoners’ and Victims’ Claims Bill — In Committee Procedure Third Reading 
Jones Dail: Prisoners’ and Victims’ Claims Bill — In Committee Procedure Third Reading 
[Volume:626;Page:21021] 
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
: 
 I was speaking only 45 minutes ago on the reason why this bill is before the House. I am pleased that the Hon Rick Barker the Minister in charge of the bill confirmed what I said about the reasons for the bill coming into the House. 
Where New Zealand First disagrees with Labour is quite simple: we believe that all the money obtained by prisoners for breaches of their rights should go into a victims’ claims trust account and that all of it should be paid to victims. None of it should go to criminals. We do not want to support criminals. Labour wants to support criminals. The Green Party wants to support criminals. Labour and the Greens want to support some of the most vicious criminals that exist in New Zealand today. If I take Mr Barnett’s last few words—that the mark of a great MMP party is that it finds parties of a like mind—and if the like mind is a party that supports Labour wanting to make payments to some of the most vicious criminals in society which the Greens support I ask what sort of like mind that is. Some might say it is a very twisted mind—but I am sure the public will decide. 
This bill is all about prisoners abusing the prison system. It is all about increasing the abuse of the prison system by prisoners. It is very simple: in prison are the worst people in our society; in prison are the greatest thugs—the most brutal people—in our society. Those people do not have any regard for human rights—that is why they committed some of their crimes. Those poor darling prisoners will work out for themselves that if they make life very hard for the prison guards who ultimately will retaliate they will get some compensation because their human rights have been breached. That knowledge will be just about handed to them by the bush lawyers in prison who will say to them that while they are in there the best way to make some money is not by being on prison detail or whatever but just by making life as difficult as possible for their guards—making the guards attack them or leave the light on for too long or leave them locked up for too long or not hear them when they are crying out for help. They will make money that way. 
I have been into just about all our prisons at one stage or another in my capacities as a lawyer and as a member of Parliament. These people are not nice. They will come up with these ideas and these ideas will be in the prisoners’ handbook that is handed down from one prisoner to another. This Government is asking for trouble. This Government and the Greens want to make sure that more and more of the public purse is spent on at the end of the day prisoners who will take the balance of whatever might be in the trust account. 
The worst prisoners in our society will not make any payments to victims. I refer to drug dealers. Drug dealers whose victims probably number hundreds of thousands by now have faceless victims. Compensation resulting from any actions that drug dealers take in prison will not be shared with anybody. None of their money will ever go to a single victim despite the fact that some of their victims have even died as a result of drug overdoses and suchlike. We could say that those people should not have taken drugs and should not have had drug overdoses or whatever and that is a point but the drug dealers will keep all the compensation they get for their actions. The worst type of criminal will get all the money. New Zealand First says that is just not on. 
The way in which we can cut down on the misbehaviour of guards and other staff in prisons is to commence court actions against them—to prosecute them. If necessary if they are convicted they might end up in prison. That would be their punishment. That would be the redress. We do not want to say to prisoners that they should be entitled to extra money as a result of their stay in prison. 
Some of the arguments that have been put forward are on the windfall argument. The Minister may say that if a prisoner has a windfall he or she has to pay it out but we are talking about prisoners who have defrauded the Inland Revenue Department and who are some of the most smart white collar criminals about. They have run the biggest drug businesses which have been going for a long time very successfully in the criminal underworld. Yet the Minister is trying to tell the House that somehow or other if those people get a windfall they will let everybody know and share that windfall with their victims. What a laugh! Those people will know that the first thing to do when they get a windfall is to put the money in a trust account in somebody else’s name or even more simple just in an account in another person’s name. They will never ever say that they have written a great book and made millions of dollars and will share the money with all their victims. They are just not those sorts of people. So the windfall argument does not hold up at all. 
United Future finally decided thanks to Marc Alexander that it would not support the bill which is going through the House only because the Greens have come through and given their support. It is really ironic that of the members of United Future a party that boasts so many Christians it was an atheist—or a non-believer—who stood up to be counted. He said that he would not support the legislation and that he would take the Christians with him. Where were the Christians in United Future? They should have been the ones opposing this bill. But no they were the ones supporting it. We have to congratulate the non-Christian in United Future Marc Alexander on standing up. It has not been a road to Damascus experience for him—he has always believed in this; he has always been strong on law and order. I sensed when I was on the Justice and Electoral Committee with him that he was very very upset with this legislation and with United Future’s seeming support for it. So I say congratulations to Marc Alexander and a black mark to those so-called Christians in United Future who were prepared to support this bill and who were dragged kicking and screaming by Marc Alexander into opposing it—and a great job he has done. 
But what credit has Marc Alexander got from United Future as a result of this? 
Pita Paraone 
: Down on the list. 
DAIL JONES 
: He is so far down on the list that as things stand he will not be back. But of course the Christians are looking after themselves and they intend to be back even though they were prepared to see at one stage vicious criminals making money out of imprisonment. 
As far as the Greens are concerned—well they never do anything without something in return. The Greens say that they are supporting this bill because of this new authority that will be established. They say that there should be an independent prison inspector to examine the situation. Well that was the unanimous view of the Justice and Electoral Committee from what I can read. Everyone in the select committee seemed to agree with that view as stated on page 9 of the report. It was not a new idea. Everyone agreed on it. For the Greens to say suddenly “That was our idea.” well— 
Nandor Tanczos 
: We just delivered it! 
DAIL JONES 
: The Greens have not delivered anything because it is supposed to be done next year. Will the Greens be here even to know about it if it ever happens? So what a stupid argument from the Greens! 
One must make the point that it was the National Party that was more specific in its minority view on page 10 of the report. It stated that there was a clear case for an independent prison inspector. When one looks at the Greens’ minority view one sees there is barely a mention of it. The Green member’s view states: “While he supports the committee’s recommendations for an independent prison inspectorate serious concerns remain about the current ability of the Department of Corrections to impartially and adequately investigate claims of abuse by staff.” Well he was not really terribly enthusiastic about it at the time. 
What is the real reason the Greens are supporting this? I believe they have done a secret deal with Labour; that Labour has done a deal with the Greens spokesman—and we know who that is; it is Nandor Tanczos and we know what Nandor Tanczos stands for and that is legalised marijuana—that if the Greens come back in the next term as members of a minority Labour Government marijuana will be legalised. That is what I see as being the situation. That is what one would get with a Green Party and Labour Party Government. [ 
Interruption 
] It is no use Mr Mallard shouting his head off; we know that that would be the deal. Because what other deal would Nandor Tanczos want? After all everyone has agreed with the need for an independent prison authority. That is nothing new. We all agree on it. The extra icing on the cake—the extra little bit of marijuana in Nandor Tanczos’ birthday cake—is a deal with Labour to legalise marijuana.