Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:15151] 
5.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development and Employment 
: What specifically was achieved as a result of the $19000 Community Employment Group grant to Aotearoa Rugby Football League and what conflicts of interest if any did Community Employment Group staff have in the initial approval monitoring reporting and final approval of the grant? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
: 
 As the member will know from the KPMG audit report I released to the Opposition under the Official Information Act last week KPMG confirmed that the Aotearoa Rugby Football League had used the $19000 grant it received from the Community Employment Group in 2002 to complete a business plan an employment and career development plan and a regional development plan for the six Auckland regional affiliates. KPMG also found that the Community Employment Group had identified a conflict of interest existing within the original Community Employment Group worker responsible for the grant and had identified an appropriate management plan to address that conflict. But as that management plan was not followed throughout the course of the project the conflict of interest was not appropriately dealt with. 
Katherine Rich 
: When a key objective of the KPMG audit of the grant awarded to the Aotearoa Rugby Football League was to identify that the league “applied the grant funding in accordance with approved purposes and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the funding” does the Minister think it is weird that the auditors did not meet with any representative of the league; if not what will he do about that? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The member has the same report that I have. The member will also know that— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Just answer the question. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Will the member be quiet? He should keep taking his pills rather than coming here and interrupting all the time. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not want comments like that to be made at all. I want the member to withdraw and apologise for that comment and to answer the question succinctly. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I apologise and withdraw. The KPMG report stands and that company has to defend its own report. But the member will know that since these events took place back in 2002 all grants have been frozen. She will know that the Community Employment Group is under review. She will know that the kinds of conditions that were outlined in this report have all been changed already in relation to grants. This situation could not happen again. 
Katherine Rich 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With all due respect the Minister did not address my question which was very clear. I asked him whether he thought it was weird that no one from KPMG met with any representatives of the Aotearoa Rugby Football League when KPMG’s job was to verify that the funding had been spent on the project and that the project’s objectives had been completed. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes. I think the Minister could address that. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: My judgment on the report is that there are things that occurred that are odd. In other words yes it is odd when people do not do things in the way that the member and I may do them. But I say to the member that this occurred in 2002. Grants have been frozen. Things cannot change. The Community Employment Group is under review. In a way this report like those on most of these kinds of issues is well superseded by later action. 
Georgina Beyer 
: What role does the Community Employment Group play in today’s much-improved labour market? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: When the Community Employment Group was established in 1990 unemployment stood at about 7.8 percent and was rising and there was no employment growth. There were many groups that were disadvantaged in the labour market and once unemployment hit 11.9 percent in 1992 the Community Employment Group had a great deal of work to do. However now that we have around 4 percent unemployment with very strong employment growth I think the focus and role of that organisation may need to change. 
Dail Jones 
: Why does anyone have to rob a bank these days when all a person has to do is to rob the Community Employment Group in keeping with this Government’s policy guidelines? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Robbing a bank would mean a person would be caught by the very effective police force under Mr Hawkins. I stress to the member that everybody in this House knows from personal experience that the Community Employment Group undertakes a great deal of useful work. However there are some contracts that are clearly dubious. That is why I froze its funding why it is under review and why change is coming. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: What is the Minister’s response to claims that he has overseen more spending scandals in his portfolios—in the Community Employment Group the Department of Child Youth and Family Services broadcasting and some tertiary institutions—than all his colleagues put together; and what responsibility does he accept for his reckless stewardship of public money? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I of course always accept responsibility for all my portfolios. It may interest the member to know that through my office runs about half the Government’s Budget so of course there will be a large amount of money to be accounted for through my office. The member may want to stop going through and making things up—for example I cannot think of an example that the member may be talking about around broadcasting. We are talking about a vast amount of money being spent. A very very small amount of it is now having to be reconsidered because of the actions of what appear to be some departments that have gone off the rails. 
Katherine Rich 
: Does the Community Employment Group have a copy of the business plan supposedly produced as a result of the grant to the Aotearoa Rugby Football League and what evidence does the Community Employment Group have that any business plan was produced at all? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I draw the member’s attention to my original answer. In the first part I said that the Aotearoa Rugby Football League organisation had used the $19000 grant it received from the Community Employment Group in 2002 to complete a business plan. It has the plan and KPMG have obviously reviewed that plan which is an employment career development plan and a regional development plan for six Auckland regional affiliates. 
Katherine Rich 
: When a Community Employment Group report on the Aotearoa Rugby Football League’s project broke down expected financial costs by categories such as “Meeting costs” “Admin” “Consumables” and “Computers” why did the Community Employment Group accept Aotearoa Rugby Football League’s final financial report in which there were no financial details of spending just three grand for a hui and four neat payments to Te Ao Associates a company owned by the chairman of Aotearoa Rugby Football League and his wife? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: The Community Employment Group should not have accepted it. That is why this whole thing is under review.