Robertson H V Ross: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Robertson H V Ross: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:641;Page:10898] 
5.  
H V ROSS ROBERTSON (Labour—Manukau East) 
 to the  
Minister of Defence 
: What further reports has he received on New Zealand committing troops to Iraq? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence) 
: 
 I have seen a report in today’s  
Dominion Post 
. It seems that Mr Key contrary to his recent denials now acknowledges that he did indeed support sending troops to Iraq but according to his office spokesman that was because he was inexperienced and his comments reflected the caucus position at the time. I accept that the Leader of the Opposition is inexperienced—that is not the point. The point is that in his denial on television last week he openly misled the public. Saying something that is untrue to cover up something that is embarrassing ought to lead to resignation—a point that Mr Key made in question No. 2 today. The Leader of the Opposition is paid as much as a Cabinet Minister and he should be held to exactly the same standards. I ask Mr Key to tell the truth. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I could not hear that answer. I am not going to ask the Minister to repeat it because it did seem to be somewhat overlong but if that level of barrage continues I will ask the Minister to repeat his answer in silence the next time it happens. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The question asked: “What further reports has he received …”. He could have easily answered that question but he particularly chose to give a reasonably lengthy speech and inside that speech there was a whole lot of supposition and frankly nonsense— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I understand the member’s point. The point is I could not hear so I do not know whether your point of order has any substance or not—that is the point. Members in this House including the Speaker are entitled to hear answers and questions. 
H V Ross Robertson 
: Can the Minister tell the House what other reports he has seen relating to this matter? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have seen a further report contradicting what Mr Key is now saying through his spokesperson. That report is from TV3 on 28 May 2007 when Mr Key said: “Our caucus didn’t support sending troops there.” He said that at a time when his office said yesterday it was the National caucus position to send troops to Iraq. That is obviously contradictory but again that is not the critical issue. The critical issue is that Mr Key misled the public as recently as 10 days ago in denying that he or National had ever supported sending troops to Iraq. The cover-up and the untruth are even more important than the flip-flop that that represents. 
Hon Harry Duynhoven 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I am sitting just two seats behind the Minister and I have a loudspeaker beside me but I could not hear the answer. I am not particularly deaf. There was a barrage from the National benches. Could we have the Minister repeat his answer please? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: There are two things. National members were tolerant of Mr Goff doing what he did; we did not want to stop him for fear the vein might pop. But the point is that his speech bore no relevance to any ministerial responsibility that he has. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No. As the member well knows—we have been through this many times—if there is ministerial responsibility for reports that relate to the question then the Minister is unable to address them. But the general point to be made I think is that members are entitled to be heard in this House. [ 
Interruption 
] I will leave it where it was. 
H V Ross Robertson 
: Is the Minister able to tell the House whether he has seen any further reports in respect of further deployment of New Zealand troops in conflict zones such as Iraq? 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I heard the Minister say: “Is the Minister able to tell the House …” but beyond that it was impossible to decipher what he was saying because of the barrage of noise. I cannot see how the question can be in order or out of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please repeat the question. 
H V Ross Robertson 
: Is the Minister able to tell the House whether he has seen any further reports in respect of deployment of New Zealand troops in conflict zones such as Iraq? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have seen a further report dated 1 May 2004. It is a report from the National Party conference and it is from the defence spokesperson Simon Power. It says— 
Simon Power 
: Oh that’s new. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The member might not like the truth but it is the truth. The report states: “Without reservation we will support our close allies Australia the United Kingdom and the United States when and wheresoever our commitment is called upon.” What that demonstrates is an inability and an unwillingness on the part of the National Party to think for itself and a lack of vision about New Zealand as a proudly independent nation. No wonder Simon Power was sacked when he had made that stupid comment! 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Has the Minister seen the statement: “My long-distance telephone calls are almost certainly monitored by American sources. They have the surveillance equipment to pick up long-distance conversations and believe mine would be of interest to them. That doesn’t stop me making calls but sometimes I feel very afraid.” and can he tell the House whether these paranoid ramblings of Helen Clark published in 1986 still represent the basis for the Clark Government’s defence and foreign policy? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have not seen that statement but I did see— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I have given members a fairly free rein. I could not hear that answer. Would it please be heard in silence. Anyone who interrupts will be leaving the House. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have not seen that statement from 1986 but I have seen a more recent statement from the National Party that indicates that the nuclear-free New Zealand policy would be gone by lunchtime. That statement was made when those members were busy telling New Zealanders that they were in favour of a nuclear-free New Zealand. That was a lie that was an untruth that was misleading as is what Mr Key has been saying recently on Iraq. 
John Key 
: Does the Minister think that if he had seen that statement from Helen Clark a few years ago his barbecue would have been a little bit more successful? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: It might surprise members to know there is no ministerial responsibility for barbecues. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Is it fair to conclude that Mr Key has finally been the first person to find a weapon of mass destruction in Iraq and it blew up in his face? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well that passes for wit. 
Hon Steve Maharey 
: In the public interest I seek leave for Mr Key to make a personal explanation on the contradictions which are now worrying the public in National’s position on sending troops to Iraq. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: You cannot seek leave on behalf of a member. That is not an appropriate point of order.