SpeechANGELA ROBERTS (Labour): Thank you Mr Speaker. It is an honour to rise and take a call on the Increased Penalties for Breach of Biosecurity Bill. Like everybody else who has spoken before me we absolutely support and applaud the member's concerns and attempts to address those concerns around improving biosecurity at our borders. As someone who lives in a rural community I can remember in a former life as an economics teacher actually doing assessments with my senior economics students about the impact of M. bovis. And not just the economic impact but the impact it has on our people; on our farmers and our rural communities. So it isn't just about the numbers but it is about the people involved right? We absolutely applaud the intent of this bill. Unfortunately when we went to the experts—and it was really great we had a lot of interest and input not just from officials but from Federated Farmers and other organisations. And I think that reflects how important it is that we get it right. I think something that the Federated Farmers talked about actually was that our regime is robust but it can always be improved. So I think at the very least the opportunity to check in and make sure that things are working as well as they can be and supporting our officials in order for them to do the best that they can do to support and protect our rural communities and our primary industries is really really important. So the penalties for breaching the Biosecurity Act as the Feds" said is a key plank in our robust border-control system and there must be credible deterrence. So that was an interesting question that was raised by the member who brought this bill to the House and a really good question. The officials came back to us and they talked about deterrence and there was a whole pile of psychology. I don't know if anyone's watched Border Patrol but you know I think everyone's got an opinion about how well or not our deterrent system works—maybe better than Australia's but you know. So it's really interesting; we've all got an opinion about what will get people to fess up that they've forgotten the apple in the bottom of their bag. So it is a really great opportunity to discuss this and test it and make sure that it's OK. So the Federated Farmers are concerned about it being a really good deterrent and I think that's a really really valid question to be asking. Horticulture New Zealand also asked about whether or not an increase in the fines will actually be reflected in a change in practice by people coming through the border. And I'm sure Mr Speaker you know much more about criminology than most of us in the House but at some point there is a bit of a tipping point where actually if the fine is great enough and you're in that line and you kind of feel like you're at the point of no return are you going to risk it because the fine potentially makes it worthwhile to try? So we had a lot of information about the psychology of this from the officials and Horticulture New Zealand asked that question—it's a really good question. If the fine says that the disincentive is not actually improving compliance then kind of what's the point? They suggested that is done after the fact. But actually I think the stakes are too high for us to just give it a crack and see if it has a positive impact. So they did actually very helpfully recommend that—Horticulture New Zealand recommended exploring alternative approaches and tools that are supported by evidence to obtain improved national biosecurity. And I think that was provided to us by the officials that turned up. They showed us what happened. We've heard from previous speakers in the House tonight about what happened the last time they increased the fine and they showed us that there wasn't an increased impact on compliance. So Horticulture New Zealand believe that not just the fines but the opportunity or the risk I guess or the price to be paid with amendments to the Immigration Act to refuse entry—they were concerned about that. And they believe that such a serious price to be paid should be kept for those who are intentionally smuggling. So I think these submissions that were made really reflect the level of expertise that is right across—the high level of understanding about what's going on and how we best protect our primary industries and protect our biosecurity. As well as that we have heard about the changes that—those tools that Horticulture New Zealand talked about you know and we've already heard about how education has such an important role to play. We heard from one speaker saying it doesn't matter about whether or not somebody has made a mistake; if they didn't know they cannot make a decision about whether or not to declare. So actually the officials were really clear about this as well that actually what you need to do is make sure they understand the why. And they reflected that actually as a nation when we are inviting our whānau and our friends to come and visit us we remind them or educate them as to why it's important how unique we are. I can remember being on a plane once coming home and sitting next to a lovely young backpacker who was telling me about the snake she'd killed in South-east Asia—and she'd kept that trophy. And we were on our way to Auckland and we had a wee conversation about how that might not be something that she wanted to just keep in a backpack but might want to have a conversation with the officials at the airport. She simply didn't know. Unfortunately she hadn't done really good geography at high school and didn't really get that we weren't Australia and that we didn't do snakes. So you know she was a lovely young backpacker who really was quite horrified when she quite innocently told me shared her story of her trophy in her backpack. She was so proud. But as soon as she had learnt of the impact that bringing in a dead animal to New Zealand would have and probably wouldn't have declared it thinking it wasn't a big deal you know she was horrified. So education is absolutely critical and we as New Zealanders have an obligation to remind anyone who's coming to visit us our friends and our whānau before they arrive how important and why it's important that they protect us and they protect our environment and they protect our economy by making sure that they do the right thing. The other thing we've heard about is you know then what? Being really clear about educating and making sure we've heard about the tools that are already being provided and the tightening up of making sure that people understand what it is that they can't bring in is really really important. And making that really streamlined. It is tempting you know: do I go in this line? Do I go in the red line or do I go in the green line? Do I have a conversation about my tramping boots? Chlöe Swarbrick: Always the green line!ANGELA ROBERTS: Maybe the red line. I don't know; I like the red line. Having a conversation and skiting about where I've been you know snorkelling and tramping on my trips or whether I've been really boring and sat in a conference centre. So having a really open conversation and a really healthy place for people to really genuinely put their hand up and ask questions is so much more valuable and it is so much more the way we do things and it is so much more likely to deliver what it is that the member who brought this bill to the House really really wants. So I encourage all of us to make sure that we are educating our visitors before they leave home and we make sure that we protect our fabulous primary industries and our fabulous flora and fauna and that we make sure that things are great.So I do acknowledge the member who brought this bill to the House the Hon Jacqui Dean and I do acknowledge the significant effort that all of the submitters made on the bill because everybody understands and is committed to having a fabulously secure border. And yeah the select committee did a great job. You know we had a good wrangle over how to progress this bill or how to progress the intent of this bill. One of the great things about the Primary Production Committee is that we are very united and clear about who we are working for. And it is because of that that I'm afraid we cannot support this bill."