Williams Poto: Social Security (Extension of Young Persons Services and Remedial Matters) Amendment Bill — Second ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeWilliams Poto: Social Security (Extension of Young Persons Services and Remedial Matters) Amendment Bill — Second Reading[Sitting date: 01 June 2016. Volume:714;Page:11590. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]POTO WILLIAMS (Labour—Christchurch East): Talofa lava Mr Assistant Speaker. I have a couple of issues I would like to address about this particular bill. I think my underlying theme is going to be that actually the Government needs to get a dose of reality. It needs to do a reality check when it is developing legislation because—we are supporting this legislation’s second reading but we have some grave reservations.The first reservation we have is about the effectiveness of this Youth Service. Mrs Parmar talked about the analysis that had been done and said that it is proving to be a really good service. Well we would like to see that analysis thank you very much. We would actually like to see the evidence rather than putting some more resource into a service when we have no idea whether it is effective.Matt Doocey: You didn’t listen to my speech obviously.POTO WILLIAMS: Here is a dose of reality Mr Doocey: there are more young people who are not in education who are not in work and who are not in training. How is this bill going to address that? How are we going to address the reality for our young people when we cannot get the figures out of the Government? Give us the evidence please—give us the evidence.Meka Whaitiri: A mirage.POTO WILLIAMS: It is a mirage. The intention of this is to reduce welfare dependency—that is what it says in the purpose of the bill. Actually it is not. The intention of this is to get people off the Government’s books in terms of benefits but it is not about getting them into work. It is not about the focus into work because we have no idea whether this service is effective in the first place at putting those wraparound services around young people. Is it increasing their educational standards? Is it increasing their ability to obtain work? Is it increasing their ability to parent well? Well show us the figures—show us the figures—before you make commitments like this. Where is this evidence? Where is the evidence because there is no doubt that young people in this situation actually need the support to increase their ability not only to get work but to find work that is actually going to pay them a decent wage so that they can then live a fulfilling life and take care of the needs of their children.There is a focus on getting people into work but not just any job and not jobs that actually cost them to go to. What does it cost a young person to put their child into childcare to access transport—what does it cost for them to do that and has this been factored into supporting these young people to get what they need to get off benefit and into jobs? And tell me one other thing: where are the jobs? Where are the jobs for these young people and where is the Government’s evidence that when people come off benefits they are actually going into work? Where are they going? Show me where they are going because I do not see any evidence that people coming off benefits are actually going into work and actually making a—[Interruption] Where is it? Where is the evidence? I have had a little pipe-up there from the Minister. Show me where it is that you can track people off benefits into work because I do not see any evidence of that.I want to refer to something that has been canvassed in this House which is the effect of sanctions on people. How is it that you can actually cut somebody’s benefit when they cannot turn up for an appointment at Work and Income? Each and every one of us electorate MPs has had queries from people who have said to us: “We couldn’t make it because we’ve had to pay our power bill. We didn’t have enough money to hop on the bus to go to our Work and Income appointment. They’ve cut our benefit in half.” We are talking about people with children—half. How is that a responsible Government approach? How is that a responsible Government—Carmel Sepuloni: They’re laughing.POTO WILLIAMS: They are laughing—they are laughing. Let me quote one of the submitters about sanctioning young people which is actually abhorrent. This is abhorrent—OK. “The sanctions in place currently resemble a three strike policy approach to welfare distribution. The first time an obligation is not met 50% of the welfare recipient’s benefit will be cut the second time their benefit is suspended and the third time means a full cancellation of their benefit”—excuse me? Excuse me?Chris Bishop: You’re voting for this.POTO WILLIAMS: Because we want some changes made here. This Government is scared of the “p” word. The “p” word is poverty and yet with this bill it is throwing young people on the scrap heap and right into the face of poverty.The relationship that young people are supposed to have with the person at Work and Income is supposed to be mutually equal and they are supposed to have rights and obligations and then what do they get faced with? The possibility of having their benefit cancelled. How is that an equal relationship? When I worked in family violence we talked about the cycle of violence and the power wheel.Hon Member: Abusive relationships.POTO WILLIAMS: It is—it is completely an abusive relationship. There is a huge power imbalance when a young person who finds it difficult to operate in the world anyway has to negotiate and cajole and work with people at Work and Income. It is absolutely absolutely abhorrent.Let us then look at the predictive risk model shall we? How much evidence has been put into this predictive risk model? I recall being on the Social Services Committee and hearing what was going to go into the predictive risk model. Let us see what the factors are that the Government is going to use to determine whether the young person is from a family that has had previous welfare issues—be it race their age. The predictive risk model is about what? It is about determining what we already know. It is about determining what we already know and actually we need to find different solutions and cutting benefits is certainly not a solution that I would be recommending.I really tautoko what the Green Party has been saying in its minority view because—what did it say OK. The modelling is about considering “educational outcomes prior contact with Child Youth and Family gender and reasons for leaving school.” That is supposed to be the predictive risk model to determine someone’s long-term dependency on welfare. Where is the aspiration in this? Where is the aspiration for these young people? Where is the support for these young people to actually get off welfare and into decent-paying jobs?Jono Naylor: That’s what the bill’s about. Read the bill.POTO WILLIAMS: OK tell me where the jobs are. Tell me how these young people are going to transition into work. The Government cannot tell us how it is tracking where these young people are going. We have no idea where these young people are going. They are certainly not going into work because the rates for young people not in education not in training and not in work are going up. So you cannot tell me that they are actually getting into work.The last point I want to make is about the right of appeal. The right of appeal—we should always have the ability to appeal and review a decision whether that is as a beneficiary or as any other person in our society. We slide down a slippery slope when we start taking those rights away from people and especially people who are in a position of diminished power such as a beneficiary. To me this is one of the most significant aspects of the bill which we should really give full consideration to at the Committee stage. Everyone should have the right to appeal a decision that impacts on their ability to actually live a decent life and in this case the ability to actually have any income. There will be some vigorous debates in the Committee stage on this bill I have no doubt but thank you very much for the opportunity to make my contribution.