Ngaro Alfred: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNgaro Alfred: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 11 June 2013. Volume:691;Page:10904. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]5.ALFRED NGARO (National)to theMinister of Education: What recent announcement has she made about achievement against National Standards?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):Tēnā koe Mr Speaker. Today I released the second year of national standards aggregate data and for the first time data on the achievement of students in Māori medium schools. The 2012 national standards data shows small positive gains in reported achievement overall. Overall achievement is strongest against the national standards for reading followed by mathematics and then writing. The information released today also includes for the first time data on achievement by year level. We have an education system that is amongst the best in the world but we can do better. Good-quality data on student achievement at all levels is essential if we are going to achieve a system-wide lift. Under this Government we have started to collect such data.Alfred Ngaro: What is the value of the achievement data that has been reported?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Tēnā koe. In the words of Andreas Schleicher education director at the OECD: “Without data you are just another person with an opinion.” Achievement data is extremely powerful. [Interruption ] Achievement data is extremely powerful. At a school level it helps principals and teachers to target resources where they are most needed. At a system level we will be using it to continue to get resources to those schools that need it most. Public Achievement Information allows parents to see how their child and their child’s school are performing and will allow the Government to see how well the system as a whole is doing in order to raise achievement for all students. Public Achievement Information includes national standards Ngā Whanaketanga Rumaki Māori data Education Review Office reports schools’ annual reports National Certificate of Educational Achievement data and relevant national and international reports.Hon Trevor Mallard: I know it is really unusual for an Opposition member to do this for a Government question but my view is it was a very good question that actually was not addressed and I wonder whether the question could be repeated so the Minister could address it.Mr SPEAKER: Order! No. On this occasion the question was clear and the answer addressed the question.Chris Hipkins: Supplementary question.Mr SPEAKER: Supplementary question Metiria Turei. Oh sorry.Chris Hipkins: That’s new!Mr SPEAKER: Again I humbly withdraw and apologise and hope that I will be forgiven. Supplementary question Chris Hipkins.Chris Hipkins: Thank you. Thank you Mr Speaker. [Interruption ]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have done all I can do and that is humbly apologise. Now supplementary question Chris Hipkins.Chris Hipkins: Can she—[Interruption ]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member has a right to have his question heard.Chris Hipkins: Can she guarantee that the national standards are being applied consistently across all schools and that the same student being assessed in one school would not get a different result if assessed in a different school; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The New Zealand education system runs on a high-trust model which is based on the overall teacher judgments made by teachers. Teachers use a whole range of tools to make those assessments. They do that in every school across New Zealand. As we get better at this process—the moderation that will be involved—the judgments will become more consistent. This is the second year of national standards data and so there will be some variation.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question that I asked was whether she could—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Can the member just repeat the question.Chris Hipkins: Can she guarantee that the national standards are being applied consistently across all schools and that the same student being assessed in one school would not get a different result if assessed in a different school; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA: No I cannot guarantee that. In the same way the National Certificate of Educational Achievement has taken 10 years to develop the robustness that it has and it has been applauded by the international systems with whom we compare ourselves. That is why we are in the process of investing in skills for teachers for consistency and progress in national standards.Chris Hipkins: What is the moderation process for national standards?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The Public Achievement Information framework over the next 5 years was published on the education website last year. It sets out the approachover the next 5 years of investing in exactly that—how we can ensure that the quality of judgments made by individual teachers across the school system will become more consistent over time. In the same way that the national curriculum has taken 12 years and the National Certificate of Educational Achievement has taken 10 years this is only the second year of national standards data reporting.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a very short and simple question: what is the moderation process for national standards?Mr SPEAKER: And I understood that the Minister has referred you to the website and the information will be available.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is question time when we ask questions and Ministers answer them.Mr SPEAKER: I am aware that this is question time Mr Hipkins.Chris Hipkins: So can I have the answer to the question?Mr SPEAKER: You cannot expect an answer to the satisfaction of the member. The Minister responded and adequately addressed the question by saying that the detailed information the member needs is available for the member on the website.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Is it acceptable for any Minister to answer any question that the Opposition puts to them by saying that the information is available on a website somewhere?Mr SPEAKER: No it is clearly not acceptable on all occasions but on this occasion to expect the Minister to have the detail at her fingertips I think is not reasonable and I took it from the Minister’s answer that she did not have the information to satisfy the member and therefore she referred the member to the website. So on this occasion I think it is acceptable but I certainly accept the point that the member is making—that if on all occasions a Minister simply got up and said to refer to a website we would not have a very functional question time.Chris Hipkins: Does the Ministry of Education website outline a moderation process to ensure consistency in this year’s national standards results?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Overall teacher judgment is the approach to use for assessment of the national standards. “Overall” means that it takes into account the deployment of a number of tools which are at the choice of the teachers and the schools in particular. The Public Achievement Information framework sets out the 5-year plan on how we will increasingly improve the consistency of judgment—that is moderation within schools and between schools is set out in that plan. This is the second year. The data this year is better than last year’s. Next year’s data will be better than this year’s. This is a standard process of development of our education system which is world-class for that reason among many others because of the high-trust model we operate by trusting the over 30000 teachers across the 2100 schools working with the 475000 primary school students to reach these data decisions.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In the supplementary question that I first contested with you the Minister referred me to the Ministry of Education website.Mr SPEAKER: Correct.Chris Hipkins: I then asked her quite a specific question about what that website information would contain and the Minister has not addressed that. She has not answered it; she certainly has not even addressed it.Mr SPEAKER: On this occasion Chris Hipkins raises a reasonable point. The Minister did not have a categoric answer to the first question and told the member to refer to the website. The member then asked a simple question about whether that information would be available on the website and I am actually none the wiser as to whether it is available. Would it help the Minister if the question was repeated?Hon HEKIA PARATA: No. There are a range of tools used by schools and they are described on the website. In order to achieve consistency in the judgments used by teachers in respect of students it is a process of investment over time. The specific tool that has been designed to work in this specific area is the progression and consistency tool. It has been piloted in a number of schools this year with the intention that it will be refined and applied—Hon Annette King: Is it on the website?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Yes a description of it is on the website. It will be applied in schools and as it is tested and found to be successful it will be used next year and the year after.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister has given quite a lot of information about what is going to happen in the future but my question actually asked whether the website contained the process that was used to ensure consistency in the data this year. The Minister has talked about what is going to happen in the future but I actually asked her about what had happened this year to ensure consistency in the data she has released today.Mr SPEAKER: If the Minister could answer just that final point around this year it would help the House move on. The Minister I think gave a very genuine attempt to answer that question quite fully for the member. But that bit of information if it can be given would assist as to whether the information will be utilised this year. Am I correct?Grant Robertson: For this year’s standards.Hon Trevor Mallard: The moderation for this year’s standards.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am going to get the question repeated. The only aspect that still remains to be clarified is the timetable for this year.Chris Hipkins: Does the Ministry of Education website outline the moderation process to ensure consistency in the national standards data that has been released this year?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Yes.Mr SPEAKER: I appreciate it.