Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:629;Page:1718] 
8.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: What is the number of individuals discharged from elective surgery in the 2001 calendar year and how many individuals were discharged from elective surgery in the 2005 calendar year? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 In 2001 about 98000 people were discharged and in 2005 about 96000 people were discharged. If the member however had asked about case-weighted discharges the answer would have shown a 9 percent increase. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: If fewer New Zealanders are getting elective surgery and the surgery they are getting is more serious does that not reveal how much sicker people in this country have to be to get elective surgery? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: No it does not. I remind the member that the best way to measure the unmet need would be to look at those people who cross the treatment threshold but do not receive surgery—and that figure is falling very quickly. 
Maryan Street 
: Why is the Minister confident that the overall number of elective procedures has increased under this Government? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Because we know that many thousands of elective procedures are now carried out in out-patient settings. If we collected data on out-patient surgery it would be clear that more people are getting the operations they need compared with 6 years ago. The Ministry of Health will begin that national collection of data from 1 July. 
Heather Roy 
: Does the Minister stand by his reported statement that imperfect data is behind the drop in elective surgery; and is the data imperfect because his ministry has reduced the number of exit categories in the national booking reporting system from 10 to four so that the numbers of people dying while on waiting lists can be hidden—another good measure of how sick our public health system has become under Labour? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I can confirm that the change to the categories—from memory the number has gone from nine to four or five— 
Heather Roy 
: 10 to four. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: —10 to four—is absolutely unrelated to the very substantial societal shift that is going on whereby more and more people have surgical procedures as out-patients or indeed in primary health-care settings. The out-patients data will be collected nationally from 1 July. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: If everything is fine with elective surgery why did the Government write to the district health boards last year to say that it was concerned about and disappointed in their performance in elective surgery and that it was calling in the ministry to deal with the problem? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: This Government is not satisfied with elective services; it is just that they are nowhere near as bad as the member—who wishes to keep playing with numbers—would have us believe. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: What mark out of 10 would the Minister give elective services in this country—would it be the 5½ he gave earlier on? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The number of 5½ is always the right number to give most questions on the health system. The reason is this: this health system deserves a pass mark. It is not a system that should get zero as National would give it when it is in Opposition or 10 as National would give it when it is in Government. The reason it should not be more than 5½ is that this Government does not believe that our health system could ever be considered ideal or good enough. We are continually seeking improvement; we never lack ambition. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Why did the Minister of Health tell  
New Zealand Doctor 
 magazine on 8 February that the health portfolio is “a very big sandpit and I haven’t worked out where the quicksands are just yet. I don’t want to say I’m revelling in it because I’m not. I’m still anxious about my level of knowledge and expertise not being up to scratch.”; and was that an admission that he is not really up to solving the waiting list crisis? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: No it was an admission that when taking on one of the largest portfolios in Government one should take some time before asserting that one knows what one is talking about. That is unfortunately not the behaviour of certain National Party spokespeople on health. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: In admitting that the Government does not know how much elective surgery is provided in this country what confidence can he have in the system; despite the Government shovelling hundreds of millions of extra dollars into the health system fewer New Zealanders are getting the elective surgery they need? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I reject the assertion in the last part of the member’s question. I am happy to remind the member of what has been achieved in the last 6 years: new public hospitals have been built from Kaitaia to Invercargill; we are lowering the costs of doctors’ visits for all New Zealanders; we have delivered fair pay for district health board nurses; and we have put communities back in charge of how health money is spent in their towns and cities. These are the sorts of things that can be done only by a Government that does not put reckless tax cuts ahead of the well-being of New Zealand families. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table a couple of documents. The first is a letter from the Minister of Health for the last 6 years to district health board chairmen berating them for their performance in elective surgery. 
Document not tabled. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: The second document I seek to table shows that fewer New Zealanders receive elective surgery today than was the case 5 years ago. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: I seek leave to table the article in which Mr Hodgson expresses doubts about his suitability for the health portfolio. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.