English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:606;Page:3690] 
5.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: Does the Government accept that there is an Article Four to the Treaty of Waitangi; if so how will it be recognised in the Government’s partnership with Maoridom? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON (Associate Minister of Justice) 
: 
 No. 
Hon Bill English 
: Did the Minister advise Cabinet on policy that permitted officials of the Ministry of Health to include in the document currently available for submissions called  
Achieving Health for all People 
 a detailed reference to article 4 of the treaty as if it were another article in addition to the three with which we are familiar? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: No the working document was the result of a series of hui to get discussion and opinions. That working document I understand will come before the various Government committees in June or July of this year. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: Is the right to freedom of religion recognised in New Zealand law? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Yes. All New Zealanders are guaranteed that right under section 21 of the Human Rights Act and section 13 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Will the Minister accept that such a freedom and right was not present on 6 February 1840 and that there is a Government document suggesting that there is a clause 4; if so what on earth is it doing there and as Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations what does she have to say about it? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: My understanding from the historians is that there was a verbal undertaking that New Zealand—at its birth in fact—should respect freedom of religion. That was never reduced to writing and it has never been considered as a fourth article. The articles in the Treaty of Waitangi are those set down in the English and the Maori version and are contained in schedule 1 of the Treaty of Waitangi Act. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am sure it is the intent of the original question as well but I am asking the Minister what she makes of the fact that in the Government publication there is reference to an article 4. She completely failed to respond to that. Say “Rhubarb” but say something! 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister addressed that question in her first answer. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: If the Minister and her Government are prepared to refute the existence of the phantom fourth article of the treaty why will they not also refute the existence of the phantom principles that they have incorporated into law? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: The principles are not the articles of the treaty. The principles that guide Government policy when interpreting the treaty are set out in the document I think I tabled on several occasions in 1989. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: What in the Minister’s view is the difference between article 13 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act which recognises everyone has the right to freedom of thought religion and belief and a verbal guarantee between Bishop Pompallier and Governor Hobson of that same religious freedom; do not both of them guarantee religious freedom for all New Zealanders? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: Yes and the difference is that under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act it is a legally enforceable right.  
Hon Bill English 
: Will the Minister instruct officials to remove from the Government-funded document  
Achieving Health for all People 
 the reference to article 4 of the treaty as if it were a new article; if so when will she instruct officials to do that? 
Hon MARGARET WILSON 
: As the Prime Minister has pointed out we are responsible only for our own portfolios. I have not had the misfortune to be the Minister of Health.