8. Question No. 8—Social Development and EmploymentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 8—Social Development and Employment8. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Is she confident the Government's employment initiatives represent good value for money; if so why?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Based on the fact that this Government has got more people off benefit and into work in the last year than any other Government I'd say our suite of employment initiatives is doing OK. For the first time the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) now report on the effectiveness of their programmes annually and publish those results online via a new digital tracking tool. It's a very transparent process and one I endorse. There will always be programmes that perform better than others and MSD are constantly looking to evolve and do things better. Our pilot programmes are similar some work well and others don't hit the mark. The previous Government's social bonds initiative—which cost $984000 and met 12.6 percent of its target—is a good example of that.Hon Louise Upston: How many of the 176000 people on the jobseeker benefit secured a job from the online job expos that cost taxpayers $6626 for every one of the 126 attendees?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Firstly let me just clarify that of the 170-something-thousand jobseekers a number of them are on jobseekers health condition and disability and so therefore are not necessarily work-ready. As I have said to the media with regards to the online tool it was something that MSD trialled and it provides us with some learnings with some infrastructure for our digital developments moving forward. However it didn't provide a large number of jobs not like a number of our other programmes. A very similar number I think participated in the online Zoom programme—around about 120 which was about the same number that was successful through the National Government's social bonds investment: 124 versus the 900-and-something or a thousand it was funded for.Hon Louise Upston: Why almost two years since the Māori Trades and Training Fund was allocated $50 million has it supported just 44 people into jobs—which is more than a million dollars per job?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I would question the numbers of that member. Also I would say a couple of things. A lot of the investment has been spent with regards to supporting provider capability. This side of the House is very supportive of supporting for Māori by Māori. And that's certainly a major element of our Māori trades training focus. Also as another side impact to Māori trades training we have had a pandemic to contend with—that does not mean that the programme is not successful and that we will not continue to invest in it.Hon Louise Upston: Why is the $311 million Flexi-wage extension not on track to deliver the 40000 jobs when firms are crying out for staff and 176000 New Zealanders are on the jobseeker benefit?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Just clarifying again to that member that a large number of the 176000 New Zealanders on jobseeker benefit actually are on the health and conditions and disability jobseeker support benefit—really important to clarify that. At the time that we made the announcement around the 40000 places for Flexi-wage Treasury were anticipating that we would reach the peaks of around 480000 people on benefit. We haven't got anywhere near that but the programme was certainly designed with that in mind. In saying that we're just over a year into the programme and I think we've seen about 15000 people go through Flexi-wage. The success rate is still immensely effective and the results are good. And just like any other programme we expect it to ramp up and we look forward to that.Hon Grant Robertson: How much does the Minister think the Government's employment initiatives have contributed to the fact that there are 291000 more New Zealanders in work than there were in 2017 and that we have an unemployment rate of 3.2 percent?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The way in which this Government has responded with respect to investing heavily into employment programmes into front-line work-focused case management and to investing in things like the wage subsidy to secure jobs so that people didn't find themselves unemployed has meant that we have beaten the odds and not reached the depths that had been forecast initially. I think that it is something we can be quite proud of—that we are in a position where as a country we have a 3.2 percent unemployment rate. We continue to remain focused and as our announcement yesterday with regards to investment and employment programmes showed this is very much a priority for our Government. Hon Louise Upston: Why despite over a billion dollars being spent on employment initiatives have long-term jobseeker benefit recipients increased by 60 percent under Labour?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: When you see the numbers of people go up with regards to benefit numbers in general then you will see that in every category with regards to time frames. I am still heartened by the fact that we are seeing more exits off benefit into employment than what we have seen since electronic records were kept. If I just reflect on the last week another 1000—or actually 999 to be exact—New Zealanders have moved off benefit. That speaks to this Government's track record.