Logie JanJAN LOGIE (Green): Thank you Mr Speaker. I'm finding this debate actually quite difficult to listen to to be honest. I genuinely believe that this has been distressing news for everybody in this House. I recognise that it's unacceptable and a breach of the Crown's responsibilities to young people in our care and protection system which includes youth justice and that actually we all have a role in terms of that oversight. I want to be very clear that a harm to those children and to their whānau is a harm to all of us and I want to communicate that to the people who caused this harm that we are standing with those children while due process of course is followed.I really just want to say my love to those kids and their families because this is a really really hard time. I also want to acknowledge that this will be a really triggering event for people who have been submitting to the royal commission who have been telling us really clearly that they are standing up and sharing their stories to prevent this happening to any more kids. Our words in this discussion matter in terms of the message that we are sending to everybody who is being impacted right now and historically.I just wish we could ensure that our kids were safe. It's our job to do that right? When they've been removed from unsafe environments into our care it's our job to make sure that they are safe. And this isn't the first time—I want to acknowledge Karen Chhour and her impassioned speech and acknowledging that we've all been part of this debate more than once. I have been part of this debate with different parties in Government.This is not the first time but every time I want it to be the last time because I do not want our kids to have to keep experiencing this. And while one case of violence in a residence is too many there has been a pattern of abuse in youth justice residences. And you know today we're finding out about five children who've been abused by Oranga Tamariki staff working in youth justice and care protection residences at two different residences within the last year. That is my understanding of what we know at the moment.In 2021 we found out that staff were using excessive force and assaulting children at Te Oranga in Christchurch which resulted in Sir Wira Gardiner who was head of Oranga Tamariki at that time closing the facility down and details from an Office of the Children's Commissioner report into Palmerston North youth justice home Te Au rere a te Tonga showed young residents had made serious allegations and complaints about staff there too including disproportionate excessive force during restraints; inciting young people to fight with staff members; bullying swearing humiliating and yelling at young people; hitting them in secure units and their bedrooms.So this is all within recent times. We know that part of the problem is the set-up of these institutions that are legacy institutions and that the incredibly vulnerable young people and they may be young people who have been removed from homes for their safety or from young people—who we so often hear vilified in this House as being a risk to others; usually there is significant overlap of those young offenders who go into youth justice residences almost always have histories of abuse where they have been taught their violence as an essential way of trying to survive in a very violent world—that we also have responsibility for.And you put those young people into residences away from connection and community and external eyes. We know from international evidence that there is a higher risk of people going to work in those places actually; without really strong protections in place there is a higher potential for abuse of power and for violence being done to those children.It was pleasing to hear that we were going to be closing these residences. I do have questions that I do need answered at some point because you know almost—in 2021 I had a conversation with the Minister about the closing of those residencies and the time frame for that and an acknowledgment that those residencies are really badly designed and problematic and a safety risk in themselves.We are seeing that that work—I really want to know what actions have been taken to provide more supervision oversight and support for staff working in those residences and what investment if any has been made into those youth justice residences to make them safer and to enhance the wellbeing of children there.Because the reports from Treasury last year indicated that there was an under spend of 43 percent of Budget 2019 funding for youth justice resilience upgrades. It may seem like I'm talking about something other than the immediate safety of those children but the design of those buildings actually can enable abuse or they can protect against it. So those upgrades are an important part of this conversation and there does need to be direct accountability for that as there is accountability in terms of investigating these.We've also heard that Judge Eivers the Children's Commissioner said that events under investigation came to light from an unannounced visit to her office. I really want to know if this is true and if yes what does this say about our system of protection for young people that they have to go to the Office of the Children's Commissioner to report rather than other members of or managers in those residences? Because when I think on that too much it just really honestly disturbs me that these kids who were experiencing this harm did not feel that anybody in those residences would protect them. That is disturbing to me and I hope that that is a part of the investigation about actually what do we need to do to ensure that all of those people are seen as safe people for our young people if something happens.It also speaks to an issue that has been raised about the opposition to the Oranga Tamariki oversight bill and that splintering of oversight and the removal of the multiple roles of protection from the Office of the Children's Commissioner.I think the fact that these young people went to the Children's Commissioner is another evidence to me of why we were opposing that bill because actually the Children's Commissioner again and again we've been told is trusted by whānau and our kids. We've seen here if we are to ensure that there's a protection and a backup and that we do not ever get into a situation where the royal commission is examining at the moment of the failure to protect and take action when harm has been done we need trusted people and we need our system to be set up around the people that our children tell us they trust that our whānau tell us they trust. And so this feels to me as if it is more evidence about us needing to relook at that policy.I also want to know whether the claims of sexual violence experienced by young people within residences are filtering up through the system and what the process for that is and where in the Oranga Tamariki future direction planned actions which will prevent and eliminate sexual violence and physical violence within the residences—because we need it. And I don't accept that this should continue. I do not accept either that the Government is showing they don't care because there actually was a response and I do want to acknowledge that—the royal commission told us that that hasn't been happening. We need it but we need all of the questions to be answered and for all of us to be accountable.