Brown Peter: Public Transport Management Bill — First Reading 
Brown Peter: Public Transport Management Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:642;Page:12371] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 It is just as well we do not take the honourable member John Carter seriously because if he wants to base transport in Auckland on what happens in the far north it would be absolutely chaotic. I guess we are talking particularly about Auckland and possibly the other cities in the country and if we want to run an efficient public transport service—principally it is buses we are referring to—then we need to cover most of the hours in the day as the Hon Mark Gosche said from early morning at least until late at night. It is exceedingly unlikely that any one commercial operator could do that or would do that and make money out of it. I listened to the Hon Maurice Williamson and he is very supportive of commercial operators going along starting up a bus service—here there or anywhere—and if they can make money then good luck to them. That will not work across the total spectrum because somebody has to do the hours and the runs where there is no money in it. Somebody has to bring back the passenger who goes on a peak service in the morning and comes back late at night when there are relatively few passengers on it. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: But those off-peak are subsidised. 
PETER BROWN 
: Exactly they are subsidised but if we say to commercial operators that they can do the cream and they do not have to bother with the subsidised stuff then we are running into trouble in terms of having a public transport system. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: But doesn’t the subsidy block the difference between what’s commercial and what’s not? 
PETER BROWN 
: Not necessarily. If I heard the honourable member correctly I took the impression that he wanted the commercial guys to simply say: “I will do this run between A and B and C and D because I have got a lot of passengers and I will make a lot of money but I am not particularly interested in the after-hours run where I am carrying only very few passengers.” 
Phil Heatley 
: But no one is doing the other run! You’re just saying cherry-picking and no one is doing it in the first place. 
PETER BROWN 
: The member should listen to the debate before he opens his mouth. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: It’s a valid point. The subsidy might cover the gap. 
PETER BROWN 
: The subsidy may cover the gap but the subsidy might have to be huge if the commercial operator were allowed to cherry-pick the cream runs in the first instance and left the other runs to the non-commercial operators. 
If we want a public transport service then first and foremost it has to be safe. Secondly it has to be reliable. People have to be able to depend on it. We have heard an example from the Hon Mark Gosche in his contribution earlier of the operator that just disappeared overnight leaving a cost of $5 million or something along those lines. So it has to be safe it has to be reliable and it has to be convenient to the passenger not the operator. It has to be comfortable. People will not leave their cars at home if they have to go and sit on a hard bench seat and rattle around for—I do not know how long—say an hour; and again it has to be sufficiently regular to suit the passengers not the operator. 
New Zealand First has long advocated for integrated ticketing. [ 
Interruption 
] I missed the point that the member just made. 
R Doug Woolerton 
: He just said it took a lot longer to get from A to B than an hour. He’s being facetious—he doesn’t even know where B is! 
PETER BROWN 
: No! This bill as I understand it will put pressure on the operators to introduce integrated ticketing. It will be not only between bus services but between bus and rail services and between bus rail and ferry services. We can go to any of the major cities in the world—and I think of the experience in London—and catch a train a bus a tube or whatever and go from A to B to C all on one ticket on 1 day. That has been beyond our abilities. [ 
Interruption 
] Listening to the member who is screaming from the wings I say that it is no wonder why if that is the best contribution he can make. 
New Zealand First says that it is about time integrated ticketing came. However having indicated—and I state this now—that New Zealand First will support this bill going to the select committee that is not to say we do not have concerns. It is my understanding that in the years 2005 and 2006 significant consultation was instigated by the Ministry of Transport and it involved representatives of the ministry Land Transport New Zealand regional councils local authorities and indeed the bus industry. A series of understandings were arrived at. But this bill seems to have overlooked that. Indeed page 16 of the explanatory note implies that there have been changes and referring to the people who have been consulted in the first place states: “However they have not been formally consulted in the preparation of this proposal.” 
The bus industry tells me that this bill departs significantly from the recommended option B which was agreed by this working committee a year or so ago. They say there was no consultation with the industry over the changes and that it gives extra powers to the regional councils and waters down the checks and balances. Significant concerns are being made by the bus industry. It goes as far as to say that option B the preferred option in this Public Transport Management Bill in reality is option C in the working document that was discarded I gather by just about everybody. I think there is something about this bill— 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: So we have gone from A to B; we have gone from A to C. 
PETER BROWN 
: We have gone from A to C but we are moving into options now and the honourable member might care to take note of that. 
R Doug Woolerton 
: He’s not keeping up. 
PETER BROWN 
: He is not keeping up no. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: It’s beyond me. 
Phil Heatley 
: He’s missed the bus. 
PETER BROWN 
: He has missed the bus completely! 
This causes us concern because we thought this type of legislation was well on track to getting the right amount of cooperation and with the right spirit when all these parties were involved in putting their ideas together and coming up with some sort of consensus. To learn from the bus industry now that it is really concerned about this bill’s departure from the original working agreement does cause New Zealand First some concern. 
We will be looking very very carefully at the submissions to the select committee. We trust that the various parties will make fairly detailed submissions and we will look very very carefully at the submissions in terms of getting the right balance between subsidised services and commercial services. As I said at the onset it is not possible or practical to rely totally on commercial services. That will in large part create a greater need for subsidies for non-commercial services. New Zealand First supports this bill going to select committee but we will be monitoring it very very carefully and studying the submissions very very carefully.