Address in Reply 
Address in Reply 
[Volume:628;Page:268] 
Address in Reply 
Debate resumed. 
PAUL SWAIN (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 Poor old Tony Ryall! What a bitter person he has turned out to be. When he first came into Parliament he was quite funny. He had a sense of humour but he has lost it now. Do members know why that is? It is because he has had 6 years in Opposition. They have been long long years in Opposition and he is bitter because he belongs to the National Party which thinks it has the divine right to rule. National members are still angry and bitter that the public threw them out in 1999 and he still has not got over it. What a cheek for National members to talk about the health system! What a cheek for them to criticise the Labour Party about the health system! Does everyone remember the Crown health enterprises? What about those things? Four of them were appointed by Bill Birch with no public input. They were appointed in secret here in Wellington. They were thrown out and not before their time. 
Do members remember when the National Party started to charge people to go to hospital? National’s grand plan was to charge people to go to hospital. [ 
Interruption 
] Tau Henare was part of that. He supported charging people to go hospital but the Labour Party said: “No you should pay for your health-care on payday not at the hospital door.” That was the fundamental difference between us and the National Party. What a cheek for the National Party to talk about staff and staff morale! It did nothing for 9 long years. The National Government introduced the Employment Contracts Act which shattered— 
Mark Blumsky 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Excuse my naivety with this question but Standing Order 37 refers to the seating of parties in the House. I think it is fantastic that the Labour member Steve Chadwick has decided to join this side of the House but I wonder whether that is appropriate in particular given the noises coming from that seat. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: The member is right. The member cannot interject from the seat she is sitting in now. 
PAUL SWAIN 
: National members have the cheek to talk about the pay structures within the health-care system when it was a National Government that introduced the Employment Contracts Act which shattered all the good conditions and wages that had been built up over time. It has taken this Government about 5 years to try to do something about it. Finally the nurses got something they needed because the National Party kept saying they were all going overseas because they were not paid enough. It was an absolute outrage. 
They also have the cheek to talk about aged care when they did nothing for 9 years. Thank goodness the National Party was not voted in because it would have meant another 3 years of inactivity! Of course it is the old story. Every time National members get up in this House and talk or ask a question they want to spend more. They want to spend more on roads on health on prisons and on schools but they also want to cut taxes. Do members remember that? It is called voodoo economics. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Just like Treasury. 
PAUL SWAIN 
: Treasury has to work out that the election is over and we won. The point is of course that one cannot cut taxes and spend more and that is why in the end the New Zealand public rightly rejected that ridiculous proposal and supported Labour back in again. 
But it is not just economic policy that National has to worry about. No one believes that Don Brash will lead that party into the next election. He ain’t going to lead it back in and people know that. Then we have to start looking around at who will be there and who will not be. Let us have a look. Simon Power’s day will come. He has the strategy group led by Jon Johanson at Victoria University. It may be interesting for some of the new members of the National Party to learn that that strategy group is going on. I wonder how many of them know about it. It is a little group around Simon Power to try to get him the position of leader. The problem was that he fell over a little bit with his “where the States go we go” kind of policy that even Tau Henare would be embarrassed about. The National Party had to back away from that but potentially Simon Power’s time is coming. 
What about John Key? Let us concede that he is able and bright but he is too new and not tough enough. He has a small group around him led as we are told by people in the cafe by Brian Connell. Brian Connell is John Key’s numbers man. I say to John Key that it is best to get rid of the numbers man when it is Brian Connell. 
What about Gerry Brownlee? He has plans too. We know that Tau Henare has offered to help Gerry even though he does not really like him because this is the long-term strategy to finally trip him up. Tau Henare knows about Gerry Brownlee. Gerry Brownlee is on the way back. The problem with Gerry Brownlee is that he will have to work himself out. He has terrible problems with people in stairs and he will have to change his behaviour when it comes to that. 
And of course what about Bill English? Everybody said that Bill English’s time was up but he is on the way back. He has a lot of support. His support comes from the leftovers of the brat pack—Nick Smith and Tony Ryall. We understand that Eric Roy is a strong supporter of Bill English because they are next door to each other. 
What about the new ones like Mark Blumsky? Sooner or later these people will have to work out which side they are on because they have to be on the right side if they want promotion. For me the wild card is Tim Groser. In the end Tim Groser is quite an able fellow but he will probably be a team of one and he will have to wait a very long time while probably there are two or three generations of leader on that side. 
I say to National Party back-benchers that when those people come knocking they will have to sort it out pretty quickly because it will not be Don Brash. They will have to work out very very quickly which horse they will be on. They can either decide now or be like Murray McCully and be on every horse. That is what Murray McCully has done over the years. He has been on every horse which is why he is still around. Everybody on the back bench of the National Party knows that Murray McCully should be gone. He has overseen three appalling election campaigns and they still hold him up as a key strategist. One could forgive one loss one could maybe let him get away with two losses but not three. I say to National members that they will not make progress until such time as they get rid of Murray McCully. Who will it be? Will it be Simon Power John Key Gerry Brownlee Bill English the wild card Tim Groser or someone else? 
 It is good to see the Leader of the Opposition come into Parliament but we should point out that question time starts at 2 and it is really important to be here on time if that member wants to continue to be a leader. 
On the other hand the Labour-led Government is now assured with one of the greatest Prime Ministers we have seen in this country with an economic programme second to none supported by the New Zealand public. That is why we are confident and positive going into the next 3 years. We will continue down the economic programme we have developed with economic growth now the envy virtually of the developed world. Unemployment is at 3.4 percent which was unheard of in the old days—in fact when that member was studying his economics in the Reserve Bank they used to talk about the natural rate of unemployment and they said that that was probably 5 or 6 percent. The figure of 3.4 percent was not possible at all. 
Dr Don Brash 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The member has absolutely no grounds for making that statement at all and I ask him to withdraw and apologise. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: That was not a point of order. It is a debating point. 
PAUL SWAIN 
: If the member has not heard about the natural rate of unemployment— 
Dr Don Brash 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Are members allowed to make assertions that are blatantly untrue in this House without challenge? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: The member will be seated. I have already ruled that that is not a point of order; it is a debating point. 
PAUL SWAIN 
: That is the reason why that member will not be leader of the National Party in 3 years’ time. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I start by congratulating you on your job. In order to try to be helpful I say that I know that Dr Don Brash is still a relatively new member of this House but possibly you could help him by explaining to him that he does have redress through making a personal statement if he wishes to. The provisions in the Standing Orders for that are very clear and he should also be reminded that to interrupt a speech in that manner with a point of order that clearly is not a point of order designed simply to break up a very good speech is in itself outside of the Standing Orders. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Suck up some more. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: That was not a point of order either. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: Would the member please be seated. I have ruled previously on the point of order. It had been dealt with. That was the end of that matter. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. You are perfectly correct. However I was asking you as the Assistant Speaker to point out to Dr Don Brash the provisions within the Standing Orders that allow him to make a personal statement if he wished to redress the very issue that he is challenging on the floor. It is not challenging your ruling. It is simply asking you as the Chair of the House as the Assistant Speaker to assist that member by pointing out the very clause in the Standing Orders that quite clearly he needs to help himself with. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: I thank the member. That is certainly my decision and I certainly did not think it was necessary. 
PAUL SWAIN 
: I was making the point that that is why that member will not be the leader of the National Party going into the next election. Hopefully Murray McCully will not be the strategist and that might well help as National goes into the next election. 
I was trying to say before I was rudely interrupted that the Labour-led Government is very confident about the programme and economic development. We will be focusing on the critical areas of savings productivity education and skills science innovation and export growth and add on to the things that we did so successfully in the first 6 years. Education health the elderly and the infrastructure—you name it we will be working hard to ensure that the growth in unemployment we have achieved over the last 6 years will continue. 
But I just say that the reason why the public rejected National’s programme was that they now feel proud and confident to be New Zealanders. They feel they are an independent country standing up to the rest of the world putting forward their viewpoint and not kowtowing to various countries around the world. What they seek is leadership and that is what they have got from Helen Clark and the Labour-led Government. That is why this Government will be around for a very very long time. This country is now right behind the Labour-led Government making sure that we have a future for the young people of New Zealand to be able to get jobs and training and to be able to bring up their kids in the way they want to. 
DAVID BENNETT (National—Hamilton East) 
: 
 I bring to Parliament the voice of young hard-working New Zealanders a new generation that believes in the Kiwi dream. At the birth of this new century my generation aspires to renew a country where all New Zealanders can achieve their full potential. To do so we must create a country that embraces youth spirit and opportunity; a Parliament that represents the new generation and their ideas; a Parliament that enhances our spirit of achievement; a Parliament that provides opportunities for all to strive and succeed. I embrace my responsibility to be part of a Parliament that works hard to make the Kiwi dream a reality for future generations. 
I would like to congratulate our elected Speakers. I pay respect to our Governor-General leaders of the political parties and fellow members. 
I am proud to be the youngest National MP elected at the last election. To serve in this House places an enormous responsibility on all of us. It is an honour and a very humbling experience to be able to serve the people of Hamilton East. I thank the constituents of Hamilton East for their support and confidence. I pay tribute to former representatives of Hamilton East. I acknowledge Dianne Yates the former Labour member and two recent National MPs Tony Steel and Dr Ian Shearer. Those previous members have served us well and I look forward to being able to follow in their footsteps. 
To those who helped in the Hamilton East campaign my sincere thanks especially Ed Turner and Stuart Anderson. I would also like to thank Marion Lambie for her support. 
 I thank the National Party for the honour and privilege of being its representative. To our leader Dr Don Brash I say thank you for rejuvenating our party. To our president Judy Kirk and campaign manager Steven Joyce I say thank you for an excellent campaign. I thank the members of the National board especially Alan Towers Roger Bridge and Scott Simpson for their friendship and commitment. I also thank Maxine Viggers and Michelle Boag for their advice and support. 
I represent a new generation of leadership for Hamilton East—the renewal of youth. The introduction of new blood into this Parliament enables us to mix the energy and vitality of youth with the wisdom and experience of the established members. It is crucial for my generation to be represented and heard in Parliament. We are the future of this great country. We believe in perseverance and success. We believe in freedom of expression. My generation understands online information flows and we appreciate having freedom of choice. We were brought up and live in an immediate consumption society. My generation understands that diversity is to be valued and understood not feared and avoided. Differences in skills and attributes will always exist but we all deserve an equal opportunity to maximise our individual potential. 
I want to represent a Parliament that promotes develops and nurtures the ability of youth to achieve their full potential. My generation wants a Parliament that means what it says a Parliament that delivers practical and positive solutions a Parliament that shares ideas and has vision a Parliament that has the flexibility to make the right decision in the right circumstance and a Parliament that avoids the traps of pessimism and uncertainty through the release of strong leadership vision and an unwavering sense of purpose. 
Building on the strength and determination of youth we need to be bold and to have courage to renew the spirit that made this country strong—the spirit of aspiration and achievement where we all aspire to our true potential. It has always been a Kiwi thing that “She’ll be right.” and that “You can do anything.” and we need to renew this great Kiwi spirit and to build a country where young people are willing to take risks and where success is part of everyone’s life. With a positive attitude and hard work anything can be achieved. 
I would like to thank my family for teaching me those valuable lessons. I thank my mother Mary and my father Allister who are here today for the time effort and sacrifices they made so that I could have the opportunity to be here. I also want to thank my brother Tom a successful Auckland lawyer. It is not a bad achievement for the younger brother to get here. 
The spirit of aspiration hard work and dogged determination embedded in me by my family and evidenced by my knocking on over 19000 doors during the election campaign has given me the chance to take my opportunities. While building a successful dairy-farming business I have maintained strong rural and urban links. Just like the foundation attitude of number eight wire and the technology of modern communication systems I represent the past and the present of our society—that of both a practical and professional capacity. 
The National Party seeks to promote that spirit of achievement. Students need to know that they can achieve that we want them to achieve and that we expect them to achieve. Our teachers schools and students need to know that our goals are the pursuit of excellence and qualifications that have a real meaning. Central government restrictions on rolls and funding based on geographical areas send the wrong signals. If parents can make a choice in where they live then they should be given a choice in where they send their children to school. 
It would be an achievement for Parliament to share a spirit of success with all to give others the chance that we have been given. Along with the spirit to succeed we also require the opportunity to reach our goals—but only the opportunity. Individuals need to take personal responsibility for their future and their actions. Personal responsibility determines our ability to convert our chances. Nothing comes easily in this world. Our destiny does not just happen. Our destiny reflects the choices we make. Most people make the right choices. Most people just get on with their lives and try to make the most of their opportunities. They are the core of what New Zealand is and they make it a great place to live and thrive. I support those who are just trying to get ahead. I support those hard-working New Zealanders. Through recognising their efforts and their families we can show our support. 
Tax relief is crucial to provide that recognition. Tax cuts encourage growth and foster initiative. They reward hard work and enterprise. Tax cuts send the right signals and incentives. New Zealanders are struggling under an oppressive tax regime that is sending all the wrong signals. Beneficiaries are reluctant to take on work because there is little marginal difference between the income earned and that received under a benefit. Those on low incomes are not undertaking overtime for fear of losing family support payments. Successful taxpayers are not seeking promotions for fear of changing their tax status. 
We should be encouraging a strong work ethic. This enhances self-esteem and brings respect for others. We need to give trust and choice back to the people not to some Government redistribution policy. We also need to replace the culture of welfare dependency with the path of personal responsibility. The State must ensure that we empower people not entrap them into dependence. At some point the entrapment will no longer be sustainable and the pain of transition will be greater than at the point of entry. The Kiwi dream is based on a can-do attitude. To renew this dream we need to nurture not stifle ambition. We need to have faith in the creativity and passion of our people. We need to celebrate and support success. We need an environment that provides opportunities to achieve. 
As members of this House we play a role in that renewal process. We have a role in providing the opportunity for success. Every time I return to Hamilton and cross the Narrows Bridge I realise the magnitude of this responsibility. Hamilton East is essentially an urban electorate. My electorate combines established suburbs from Hillcrest to Chartwell and the high-growth northern suburbs of Rototuna and Flagstaff. A sliver of lifestyle blocks track around the city. Hamilton East is a marginal electorate because it represents a complete cross-section of people from the students trying to better themselves to the lecturers trying to impart their knowledge and from the new migrants and young professionals seeking to make their mark to an established productive base. We have a highly developed agricultural research industry and a mobile and highly skilled workforce. 
We have a young vibrant and growing city. We embrace the diversity of this multicultural city. Forty percent of Hamilton’s population is under 25 years of age. We are the youngest city in New Zealand in population terms. We are growing at rates equal to the fastest growth rates in this country. Hamilton has a progressive and positive city council. There is a mood of optimism and a real sense of direction. We have young leaders in the city council and in Parliament—I thought Martin Gallagher might enjoy that! We represent the new generation of New Zealanders. Hamilton is the dial-up tone for our country’s youth. 
Hamiltonians have a strong history of determination and results. We believe in our future and have a common desire to make the most of our opportunities. We just get on with the job. We are heartland New Zealanders who are constantly achieving for the greater good. We have a highly educated community. In just 40 years the University of Waikato has grown to be one of the top universities in the country. It has an ambitious vision to be a key economic driver in our region and in our country’s future. We have made real sacrifices for this country and we know what it takes to deliver in an export-based economy. We are motivated and successful. Hamilton has the spirit to succeed. 
But today and for the next 3 years I bring members a message from the people of Hamilton. We are a rapidly growing city that can remain silent no more. The people of Hamilton are restless. We are teenagers who have come of age. We have matured and we are ready to take our place at the table of major metropolitan centres. Our success our growth and our contributions to New Zealand mean that we can no longer be dismissed as just another provincial city. No longer can we be seen as not having a diversified and productive economy. No longer can our inherently agriculturally based export industries be ignored. No longer can we come second-best—or more likely fifth—in Government funding packages. For the people of Hamilton have sent me here for a reason. We deserve to be recognised. We deserve to be heard. We want change. 
We have exciting plans for our city. We want to work with government to align our strategy with the needs of the country. We need to keep my generation living working and bringing up their families in Hamilton. Hamilton has youth Hamilton has spirit and Hamilton has an important role to play in the future of our country. But we need to work in partnership with central government to make the most of our opportunities and for our vision to become a reality. Our future and the future of this country lie in growth. Population and economic growth go hand in hand. 
The crucial factor to supporting our long-term growth will be infrastructural investment. Our future lies in the road to the north. Completion of the Waikato Expressway as a non-tolled road within the next 10 years is paramount. The Hamilton City Council ring route road the future industrial growth to the north-west and the residential growth to the north-east all rely on this road. The Waikato Expressway needs to be linked to a new road to Tauranga. The golden triangle of Tauranga Hamilton and Auckland deserves special attention. This area will be the economic and political powerhouse of New Zealand. It is just common sense for Hamilton’s airport to become the second airport servicing the northern half of New Zealand with a special focus on freight and exports. With the right logistics the Waikato can and will become the vegetable garden of Auckland and the Australian eastern seaboard. We need to see a comprehensive plan for infrastructure that is visionary and leads development. That is the role for central government—a role that has not been performed in recent years. We want to work with central government to achieve the goals of Hamilton the region and the wider economy. 
I am proud to represent the National Party in this House. It is the only party that can renew New Zealand. Renewal requires youth spirit and opportunity. I have great faith in all New Zealanders and the spirit to succeed. As leaders we need to ensure that the opportunities are available. Hamilton represents New Zealand’s renewal as our people are young and we have spirit. But Hamilton needs an active partnership with central government to make our opportunities a reality. Let us provide youth with the vision to grow. Let us trust and back our people. Let us deliver the opportunities and let them grow. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 E nga mana e nga reo e nga karangaranga maha tena tatou katoa. I a koutou o te Ropu Maori i a koe e Tau mo to hoki mai ki te wahi nei nga kanohi Maori e mihi kau ana. 
[ 
To the authorities the languages and the many callings greetings to you all. To you collectively of the Maori Party to you Tau Henare who have come back to this place and to all Maori members my personal acknowledgments to you 
.] 
I give my greetings to all people out there and to all my colleagues. I pay tribute to our fellow MP Mr Rod Donald and his whanau and to the strong contribution he made to Parliament. I congratulate you Madam Speaker on your election and I also congratulate the Deputy Speaker and Assistant Speakers. I would like to welcome all the new members to the House—nau mai haere mai. 
 It is a privilege to be standing in my third term in the forty-eighth Parliament. I am pleased to be part of a Government that is committed to the well-being success and achievements of our mokopuna rangitahi and whanau as a whole. I wholeheartedly support the value and importance the Speech from the Throne gave to the education of our mokopuna and rangitahi. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: How many graduated? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Education is at the heart and the cornerstone of Maori’s progress and is certainly something that is in short supply on the Opposition benches at times. Education is the key to unlock the potential that is needed on the highway of opportunity for all of our people. In this 21st century economy it is more than certain—[ 
Interruption 
] Myrtle will not be rolling along this highway; it will be Maoris driving their vehicles to the areas where they want to get to. A progressive knowledge-based economy is possible only where education is valued where it flourishes universally and where it is of world-class quality. 
Our Government is reducing a significant barrier to participation in early childhood education. Certainly as that member pointed out the Ministry of Maori Affairs and other ministries have been run very well during his absence. Ensuring our mokopuna have the best possible start in life with quality and affordable education is essential. We will continue to invest in that. Our mokopuna and whanau will benefit immensely from the reduction in the primary school teacher-pupil ratio to 1:15. That important ratio is conducive to our language development strategy and most certainly it is effective in relation to one-to-one teaching. There is no doubt that our emphasis on literacy and numeracy has raised the levels of achievement. Our commitment to mokopuna and tamariki is shown in our efforts in the Budget in relation to the development of early childhood education. At the end of the day if we want our mums to return to work and get all the time there that they can then we have to ensure that at the front end they are not worried about the mokopuna being left alone or anything else. Hand in hand with that we are also committed to empowering the teachers who educate our mokopuna. 
In 2004 over 23000 Maori trainees participated in industry training and Modern Apprenticeships. That number has increased since our Government has provided additional funding. We will further boost Modern Apprenticeships with 5000 more places. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: How many graduates? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: How do we know how many graduated? We know how many graduated by seeing the full capacity now in the workforce—91 percent of all Maori who want to work are working. Last week this country had the lowest unemployment rate in the world—at 3.2 percent I tell Mr Henare. The rate of unemployment for Maori is 2½ times higher than that and we will close that gap. We will not let it be relevant—like the chasm of intolerance that was imbued into the last election campaign in this country by that mob over on the Opposition benches. Our overall target is to have 250000—a quarter of a million—of our people in industry training. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: When am I going to get my briefing? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: At this point I would like to acknowledge the new Maori rangatira in the National Party the shadow Minister of Maori Affairs Mr Gerry Brownlee. He has been writing to me continually about a briefing that I know he will enjoy immensely because it is over-endowed with a whole lot of successes and incredible progress going forward. [ 
Interruption 
] It will happen when we are ready. 
I was encouraged by the speech of the member for Hamilton East. He spoke about the youthfulness there and it was fascinating. It is great to know that between 3000 and 4000 young people turned up at the university when Helen Clark spoke there and that they expressed their keenness to continue supporting this Government. 
Hon Member 
: There were 4000 for the speaker the week before. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I certainly want to get back to the insidious chasm that has been encouraged by that member over there on the Opposition benches and I agree with Dr Sharples’ rendition yesterday when he spoke about people of kaki whero—red-necked people—engineering and trying to make out that all Maori are wrapped up in issues that are mad bad and sad. That Maori culture is a unique culture is a matter of indifference in this country. I get sick and tired of the platitudes of everybody who cheers the All Blacks on. Those people spend too much time on reading the sports part of the national newspapers to try to find out who is in the team. But their chests and their hearts—and especially Mr Brownlee’s arms—really rattle and wiriwiri and they shake with great agreement and great passion when they are supporting the Maoris doing the haka. 
Those people should understand this: Maori are above merely doing the haka. That is an important part as Dr Sharples will tell people but the days of Maori being dependent and not being involved in enterprise—being business managers and business-owners—and having a better life are over. This Government has certainly made sure of that. The issue is about Maori succeeding as Maori; it is most certainly about making sure that Maori do position themselves well. Ninety-nine percent of the people who are my age in Maoridom—that is Dr Sharples’ age; Tau Henare is a bit younger—are the children of manual labourers. So if we understand the international nuances of indigenous transition we realise we are right in the guts of it now. Let me tell people this: in the next 5 to 10 years especially with the support of this Government we will see some of the most prolific advancement ever made by Maoridom. It is unstoppable and that is because Maori support it—and not just an ex - Minister of Maori Affairs who is just huffing and puffing over nothing. 
Maori advancement is about what we did in the Budget last year. We will remove student loan interest and ensure that whatever students get loans on is relevant. The outcome will be that they get qualifications that will help them to move forward in their lives. There will be 20 hours’ free early childhood education. [ 
Interruption 
] This is real stuff; if members listen they may learn. This advancement is about the needy and about pushing a lot of our people forward—not the right’s dictum about the greedy which is that if we give all those big tax cuts at the top end it will engender a whole lot of business advancement. That dictum is trapped in all of the macro rather than understanding where the majority of our people are at—but we are getting out of there. At the end of the day we do have capable Maori assets. Progress has happened and if we get to places like that on the Government side of the House Maori advancement is about the minimum wage going up six times in the last 6 years. It is about sharing the wealth and about ensuring that parents and other people who want to re-enter the workforce stay there. It is about creating a strong labour market. 
 Our menu for this year is quite simple: it is about getting Maori into better education and better employment and it is about getting Maori into enterprise. The belief that is engendered a lot of the time by redneck misinformed people or by those media that do not want to see Maori go forward needs to be corrected and to go where we are going. 
This Minister of Maori Affairs could shear sheep even though he got asthma when Bill English was using blunt gear. This Minister could shear sheep. This Minister does know how to shear 500 sheep—not now but he used to be able to—and this Minister understands and enjoyed that labour market when we collectively went to work. Whether we were cutting scrub fencing working for the post and telegraph department working on the wharves working in the factories or working in the freezing works we were trapped into being the followers and the people who supported the labour—I ask members to excuse the pun. We are—people like me; the leaders in my age group—the children of manual labourers. But that is changing. I think one of the most fascinating things that I have seen globally with regard to other indigenous cultures is that people can either stay there and be made to believe they are mad bad and sad or they can get on with it and get going. That is where Maori want to be with or without those members’ prattle but most of all with the support of this Government. 
I would encourage Opposition members to understand that Maori are going to make their mark in this country and they will be in all those arenas. It will be about getting better levels of education and most certainly will involve the sciences. We are more than able to take all the brickbats and all the nonsense that comes but by Jove I have a lot of faith in young Maori who want to go somewhere and be somewhere irrespective of the construct breakdown and irrespective of the ups and downs in our people. 
Debate interrupted.