Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mapp Wayne: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:616;Page:12002] 
10.  
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Justice 
: Will Maori co-management of the foreshore and seabed which she stated “will be addressed in the bill” to be introduced on this matter “in the near future” still include enhanced participation options including devolved management membership on hearing committees and the establishment of whanau hapu or iwi committees? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) on behalf of the Associate Minister of Justice 
: 
 Legislation will provide for the relationship between the recognition of ancestral connection with the foreshore and seabed and its management under the Resource Management Act. Details will be announced at the appropriate time following completion of the policy. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: If the forthcoming bill does not include all of those things that I mentioned what in fact would be left of the Government’s proposals of December what could have been done to secure the votes of the Maori caucus or has the Government simply written them off and is relying on New Zealand First? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are three questions there. Two may be attempted. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: New Zealand First has yet to receive a full briefing on the policy and has made no position clear in terms of the Government’s legislation in this respect at the Maori caucus committee; but it certainly has shown an intelligent interest in the matter unlike some parties. The Maori caucus committee has been well consulted on these matters. The one thing that does require change immediately is the National Party’s website on the issue which is a tissue of fabrications. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: Will all New Zealanders be able to enjoy their existing rights of access to the foreshore and seabed under the Government’s proposed legislation? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Yes. 
Metiria Turei 
: Is the Minister aware of any examples of management over coastal areas being devolved to Maori under section 33 of the Resource Management Act a similar process to that outlined in the Government’s foreshore and seabed proposal? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Yes I think there are some examples. I think Sir Hugh Kawharu has referred particularly to the examples that involve his own people and they have worked well as far as everybody is concerned. 
Stephen Franks 
: Given the answer to Mr Mapp’s first question which was “Wait for the bill.” is the Government discussing co-management or membership of committees or the other matters Dr Mapp raised with any Maori outside this Parliament; if so when will the 85 percent of other New Zealanders be invited to comment? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The Government is continuing discussions with a large range of groups including public access groups groups like Fish and Game and so on outside Parliament. There have also been direct discussions with a number of Maori groups notably Ngati Porou who hold a particularly special position in terms of their relationship over a long period of time. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: When the legislation is finally introduced will the Minister confirm that all of the measures contained within it will then be referred to the special select committee that has been established and that everyone who has an interest for or against any of its provisions will then be in a position to make submissions on those matters and have those heard by the select committee? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Yes. It is intended to refer the legislation to the special select committee. There is no intention to place a special time limit on the hearings of that select committee. We expect obviously a large number of submissions and when the member has been here a bit longer she will learn that select committee process in New Zealand actually is an important process of consultation with the wider community. 
Stephen Franks 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister has outlined a number of groups that appear to be informed of the matters on which Dr Mapp questioned. When we consider the answer Dr Mapp was given and the answer that a number of Ministers have given over the last few days or weeks which is effectively “wait and see” or “wait for the bill” could you rule on whether that is an adequate answer when it makes it plain that this House is almost the only place where Ministers will not tell what is being proposed or how the conversations are developing? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: As the member well knows or should know I do not rule on the adequacy of answers. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: When the Minister of Maori Affairs referred 2 weeks ago to co-management of the entire coastline surely the Minister acknowledges that that is quite different to the section 33 Resource Management Act process which relates to very narrow parts of the coastline and therefore surely the bill will have to be narrow to avoid the statement of the Minister of Maori Affairs? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I assume those are questions and I will rule them in. “Surely” is not quite a question word but I will allow it to be considered. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: In most of the country the foreshore is a particularly narrow part of the coastline but going beyond that fact what will be provided for is the ability for a range of involvement to occur. What would be appropriate in some areas would not be as appropriate in other areas and that is the reality of what happens at the present time in many circumstances. 
Metiria Turei 
: Given the Minister’s answer that existing Resource Management Act processes are working well what then is the point of the Government’s proposal which sets up an additional and very costly process for achieving exactly the same outcome as the Resource Management Act and will the Government consider instead resourcing the existing processes for Maori and local government to work together better? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The latter issue is a legitimate one and the Government has indicated a desire to try to improve practices in that respect but it would need movement on both sides to achieve efficient outcomes. On the former matter I am afraid I must give the member the same answer: she will have to wait until the policy is finalised before I will be able to comment more clearly on that. I do not think she will be too disappointed with that part of the outcome. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Minister confirm in the interests of public information that every precedent or example of management where Maori are concerned—with regard to Maori having a right of management control and interest—that is in the legislation today was put there by a National Government? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I can indeed in terms both of the Resource Management Act obviously but also in terms of some specific matters in relation to treaty settlements. I am surprised the National Party seems to be completely denying its past in that respect. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Does the Minister’s answer to my last question mean that Maori will have co-management in some way over the entire coastline as was requested by the Minister of Maori Affairs? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: As I said the legislation will provide for the connection between the recognition of ancestral connection and its relationship to the procedures under the Resource Management Act with the regional councils obviously having the final say in matters.