4. Question No. 4—FinanceHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 4—Finance4. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement Ministers have decided to use the greater fiscal headroom to top up the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund by an extra $7 billion"; if so does that indicate that the COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund would not have been topped up had that fiscal headroom not been apparent?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): In answer to the first part of the question: yes and I stand by my full statement "The stronger economy has been reflected in the Government's books with lower deficits and debt position than had been predicted and well below that of other nations that we compare ourselves against … the extra funding will be targeted at further economic support as well as building resilience in our health system supporting the vaccination rollout and border and MIQ provision." In answer to the second part of the member's question: I know that he is fond of hypotheticals but I don't get to deal in hypotheticals in this instance.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does he accept that any perceived fiscal headroom arising from the previous quarter will have evaporated due to the protracted lockdown and if not why not?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I think the member underestimates the resilience of the New Zealand economy that we've seen over the course of the COVID outbreak. He will recall that when we saw a significant drop in the June quarter of last year we saw an even greater bounce-back in the September quarter. I have faith in the New Zealand economy.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Does describing a massive spending and debt burden that might be ever so slightly massive meet his definition of fiscal headroom?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What the definition of fiscal headroom is is that the Government has overseen an economy that has produced more revenue in terms of tax that has seen lower deficits and lower debt. That means that the Government is in a strong position to support New Zealanders through this outbreak.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is using the May year-to-date projection of $6 billion less debt to justify $7 billion of extra spending an example of the Government's fiscal discipline?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What it's an example of is the fact that the New Zealand economy up until this outbreak was performing extremely well. It was generating high levels of tax revenue and it means that when we do come back out of this outbreak I am very confident that the New Zealand economy will be resilient. I know the member doesn't want New Zealand to succeed but on this side of the House we do.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Did he receive advice from Treasury on alternative approaches to making use of the so-called additional fiscal headroom and if so what was that advice?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I receive a steady stream of advice from No. 1 The Terrace but we've been focused most recently on our response to the COVID outbreak.Hon Michael Woodhouse: How much of the $7 billion top-up would not have been needed if the Government didn't spend as much as $12 billion of the previous $50 billion fund on items with tenuous or no link to COVID-19 response and recovery?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I completely reject the premise of the member's question. The COVID-19 Response and Recovery Fund has been spent on ensuring not only that we have the resources for the direct response and the health system or through the wage subsidy scheme but also to support for example New Zealanders to stay in work. When we put out the Budget in May 2020 where the first part of the $50 billion was allocated we were facing down a 9 percent unemployment rate. New Zealand's unemployment rate peaked at just over 5 percent and has come down to 4 percent. That is a good outcome for New Zealanders. We have helped keep New Zealanders in work through the COVID fund."