Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:661;Page:9531] 
4. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: How many meetings or briefings has she attended with corrections department officials in regard to the amended “three strikes” policy since it was announced? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 Eight. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Was her Associate Minister of Corrections Dr Pita Sharples in attendance at any of those meetings; if not why not and if so how many? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: No because Minister Sharples has his own meetings with the Department of Corrections. I trust the Associate Minister to have his own meetings. In addition to that Minister Sharples and I meet either every week or every fortnight depending on our schedules. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Why has she deliberately failed to consult with Dr Sharples as Associate Minister of Corrections or as co-leader of the Maori Party on this major policy issue even though that is a direct breach of the confidence and supply agreement between the National Party and the Maori Party? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Perhaps the member did not hear my answer. Dr Sharples meets with the Department of Corrections every week unless he changes the date and he meets with me either every week or every fortnight depending on our schedules. 
David Garrett 
: Is the Minister aware that since last November four more people have been killed by persons who would have been in jail—and thus unable to kill—had the “three strikes” legislation been in place at the time of the victims’ deaths? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I would not be at all surprised if that were true. Unfortunately there is a small but extremely difficult group of recidivist violent offenders who will benefit greatly from the “three strikes” law. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Considering that official advice on the amended “three strikes” legislation states that it will disproportionately affect Maori does it concern her that her Associate Minister of Corrections who has delegated responsibility for addressing Maori overrepresentation in the criminal justice system responded to an Official Information Act request on 9 February 2010 by saying the following: “I can confirm that as the Associate Minister of Corrections I received no information prior to or following the announcement of the ‘three strikes’ policy by the National and ACT parties on 19 January 2010.”? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Dr Sharples has his own meetings with the Department of Corrections. I do not oversee them because I trust him as the Associate Minister. In addition to that I take offence at a comment that says that Maori need to be overrepresented when actually— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: It’s in your own policy papers. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: It is not. It is not in my one; it relates to criminals. Yes criminals will be overrepresented. 
Rahui Katene 
: What response has she made to Treasury advice warning against net-widening cautioning that mandatory sentencing policies tend to expand over time and signalling uncertainty about how the “three strikes” legislation would be used? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Treasury gives a lot of very good advice. I think that is just one of the pieces of advice that the Government has taken into account. The matter is before the Law and Order Committee and no doubt the committee will come back with some recommendations. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does she consider it problematic for the Associate Minister of Corrections to be “appalled” by the policy that the Department of Corrections is the co-lead agency on and to describe the policy as “irrational and extreme” as he did in a media release of 20 January 2010? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: No I am not at all appalled by Dr Sharples’ comments. I know that they are honestly held. However I say to that member that the Department of Corrections is not the co-lead agency and as a member of the select committee dealing with the bill he should know it. In fact the lead agency is the New Zealand Police. 
Melissa Lee 
: What is the Government doing to rehabilitate offenders who have been sent to prison for serious offences as well as for those who will be sentenced under the new policy? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: It will be doing quite a lot. I have visited many prisons and I have seen for myself the rehabilitation programmes that we have in place. They include alcohol and drug treatment units prisoner employment training covering a wide range of industries and skills specialist rehabilitative programmes and units targeting particular offender groups. We are doubling the amount of drug and alcohol treatment available to prisoners under the National-led Government—something the previous Labour Government could never do. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table an Official Information Act response from the Hon Dr Pita Sharples dated 9 February 2010 in which he confirms that he “received no information prior to or following the announcement of the ‘three strikes’ policy by the National and ACT parties …”. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table the CAB 100/2008/1 form for the amended “three strikes” policy Cabinet paper signed by Judith Collins the Minister of Police and Minister of Corrections stating that the proposal had not been discussed nor was there any intention— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Deputy Speaker. It is in respect of the answer to the primary question. I am not contesting the answer. In fact I am very grateful to the Minister for answering it. She answered “Eight.” when I asked how many briefings she had. I am not contesting that answer. But I ask for—not today—a considered ruling by you—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Points of order are heard in silence. The member Clayton Cosgrove has the floor. I am giving him the opportunity to state his point of order. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: My point is that on many occasions we have asked this Minister and other Ministers exactly the same question in written questions—how many briefings how many visits how many meetings etc.—and the answer particularly from this Minister has been basically that she will not waste her time answering the question. Yet when the same question or similar questions are put to her in the House where there is public scrutiny she quite rightly and properly answers them. I ask whether you could consider in writing whether we have to waste our time asking oral questions when there should be some consistency. A Minister should answer written questions in the same fashion as he or she answers them in the House. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I thank the member for that. I will take advice on that matter and I will get back to the member on it.