9. Whānau Ora—FundingDARROCH BALL (NZ First) to the Minister for Whānau OraWhānau Ora—Funding9. DARROCH BALL (NZ First) to the Minister for Whānau Ora: Does he stand by all his statements?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for Whānau Ora): Āe i te wā e kōrerohia ana.[Yes at the time it was being discussed.]Darroch Ball: Does he stand by his answer on measures of effectiveness provided to justify the increase in funding to Whānau Ora that The increase in funding for Whānau Ora … was subject to a cost-benefit analysis consistent with other Budget 2016 social sector initiatives."?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Āe.Darroch Ball: How could he possibly use the cost-benefit analysis as justification for an increase in funding when that cost-benefit analysis clearly states that the "benefits achieved through Whānau Ora are difficult to capture using cost-benefit analysis."?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Arā anō ngā momo toronga o Whānau Ora.[Whānau Ora has other forms of extensions.]Tracey Martin: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can we confirm that there is an interpretation going on? Mr SPEAKER: Certainly—[Interruption] Order! There is an interpretation and it would be helpful if members listened to it.Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: E tika ana kia whai ahau ā-Minita nei i tēnei kaupapa o te cost-benefit analysis. Kua eke a Whānau Ora ki tērā taumata kāre he rere kētanga ki ētahi atu Tari Kāwanatanga. Ko taua āhua anō ka whakamātauria ia tau ia tau ia tau.[It is proper that I as a Minister follow due process in this matter about cost-benefit analysis. Whānau Ora has achieved that standard; it is no different from any other Government department. It is that situation again there is an annual audit each year.]Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This Minister was asked as to how he could make that statement given that he had on record from a Government department a statement about the impossibility of a cost-benefit analysis in the way it was being put in his answer. He was asked how he could say that against that official information that he got and he did not in any way try to answer the question. Mr SPEAKER: Order! No the question was not as the member has now summarised it; it was somewhat different and as I listened to the answer the answer addressed the question that was asked. Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. So just to clarify your ruling are you saying that what I heard from the Minister was not what he said?Mr SPEAKER: No let me try to clarify for the benefit of the member. The question that the member Winston Peters suggested was asked was not exactly the same as Darroch Ball asked. I listened to what Darroch Ball asked and I have ruled that the answer given by the Hon Te Ururoa Flavell has addressed that question. That is the end of the matter. There is not much point in continuing on.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect I helped draft this question so I know what is in it. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. [Interruption] Order! I have ruled that the question has been addressed. The member does not have to agree with that but he has to accept it. We will move to further supplementary questions; otherwise I am quite happy to move to the next question.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am certainly not going to entertain a further point of order from the Rt Hon Winston Peters contesting my ruling and if he does so I will be asking him to leave the Chamber.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr SPEAKER: Point of order. Can I just—[Interruption] Order! [Interruption] Order! The member will resume his seat. I just want to be—[Interruption] Sit down. Resume your seat please. I just want to be absolutely clear—[Interruption] Order! I want to be absolutely clear. I have given the member a warning that I am not prepared to tolerate him continuing to raise a point of order that is challenging a ruling I have just given. If the member wishes to seek a fresh point of order on a completely different matter that is a right that he has and I will listen to it but if I—[Interruption] Order! If I detect for—Rt Hon Winston Peters: Oh Mr Speaker sit down and let me—[Interruption]—put my point of order.Mr SPEAKER: The member will leave the Chamber—[Interruption] The member will leave the Chamber. Rt Hon Winston Peters withdrew from the Chamber. Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would ask you to reflect on the likely order in the House if when ruling on a point of order that has been raised by an Opposition member you are subject to a barrage of abuse and members on this side are subject to a barrage of abuse from the Government side. If the shoe was on the other foot and you were being asked to rule on a point of order from the Government and if we were to yell and scream and yahoo all the way through that I think you would have something to say about that.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I accept the point the member is making. It is certainly unhelpful but the behaviour we have just seen is completely unacceptable and I would think that most people who have any respect for this place at all would accept that. It does cause some excitement. Mr Peters was asked to leave he certainly took some time to leave the Chamber and there was a fair bit of interjection from my right-hand side which is not acceptable. I accept the point the member has made. Darroch Ball: I seek leave to table a document which is a response by the Minister for Whānau Ora to an Official Information Act (OIA) request dated 25 August 2016 entitled Cost-benefit analysis template Whānau Ora: Growing whānau coverage and reach which states—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The document has been well and truly described. I will put the leave. Leave is sought to table that particular response to an OIA request. Is there any objection to it being tabled? There is none. Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Darroch Ball: Can he confirm that 50 provider contracts and their associated funding have been transferred from the Ministry of Social Development to Whānau Ora when Whānau Ora is exiting 30 of those contracts but keeping the millions of dollars that came with them?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Kāo.Darroch Ball: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is an Official Information Act report from the Ministry of Social Development dated 13 April 2016 entitled Transfer of Vote Social Development Funding to Support Whānau Ora Progressing Transfer—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That document has been described enough. [Interruption] The second—Darroch Ball: Do you want to know the title of it or not?Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member is very close to now following his leader. I have said that that is enough of a description for it to be put. I will now hear of the second document.Darroch Ball: The second document is Treasury advice against the transfer of those contracts and funds an Official Information Act report from the Ministry of Social Development dated 24 April 2015 entitled Report on Options for Transferring Programmes to Whānau Ora.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table those two particular documents. Is there any objection to them being tabled? There is not. They can be tabled.Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House.Darroch Ball: Why has the Minister for Social Development given him a $3 million slush fund out of the Ministry of Social Development budget and why it is assigned to his delegation if it is nothing but a massive slush fund to be used by him?Mr SPEAKER: Either of those two supplementary questions the Hon Te Ururoa Flavell.Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Ki te pātai tuatahi kāre au i te paku whakaae ki tāna e kōrero nā.[In regard to the first question I do not agree one bit with what he is saying there.]Darroch Ball: I seek leave to table a document that is an Official Information Act report from the Ministry of Social Development dated 6 May 2015 entitled Assigning Responsibility of Funding in Vote Social Development to the Minister for Whānau Ora showing a $3 million—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is enough of a description. Leave is sought to table that particular document. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Ron Mark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know that when you leave the Chamber you do review the proceedings. We have always understood that when we are seeking to table documents we are required to state the title of the document and the date or the place from which it came. On two occasions whilst my colleague was trying to read out the full title—and these documents do have long titles—you cut him short with the explanation that that was a good enough description of the document when he had not even completed the title so how would you know?Mr SPEAKER: Order! I agree with the member. I will certainly review proceedings."