Norman Russel William: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
Norman Russel William: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
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Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
: 
 It is with pleasure that I take a call on Vote Finance in the estimates debate. There are a number of issues that I could talk about in this particular debate: the chronic current account deficit the trade balance and overseas debt which is now at about 100 percent of GDP. But I want to focus on the relationship between climate change and New Zealand finances and the New Zealand economy. I think this is one of the most pressing issues we face. 
Today we have a climate change Minister who has tried to obscure the debate by talking about a $15 billion cost to the New Zealand economy of meeting a 40 percent responsibility target under the Kyoto Protocol based on a whole bunch of crazy assumptions. But I will put that to one side because regardless of the exact outcome of the Copenhagen meeting and regardless of the exact reduction target for which New Zealand ultimately takes responsibility one thing is for certain as a result of this ongoing debate and the international agreement that is coming our way. We will need either to reduce our domestic emissions increase our domestic greenhouse sinks or we will have to purchase credits from overseas. They are the only three options New Zealand has. All of those three options have significant impacts on the New Zealand economy and New Zealand finances. 
Those who think there is some magical way out of this that somehow New Zealand can put its head in the sand that somehow through politics we can make this whole greenhouse problem go away are kidding themselves. It will not go away. We have only three choices. We can reduce domestic emissions we can increase sinks in New Zealand or we can buy overseas credits. All three of those options will have significant impacts on the New Zealand economy. 
If our objective is for the New Zealand economy and society to prosper in the world then we need to reduce our greenhouse emissions domestically or increase our sinks domestically. That has to be the first option because every tonne of emissions we cut in New Zealand and every tonne of sinks we have in New Zealand is a tonne of carbon dioxide we do not have to purchase overseas at great cost to the New Zealand Government and/or the New Zealand economy. Every time we reduce emissions in New Zealand it is an advantage for the New Zealand economy and the New Zealand Government. For a country with a persistent trade deficit in goods and services for a country with a net international investment position that is now approaching a 100 percent negative position—100 percent of GDP—it is incredibly important that we do not add to our international obligations by having to purchase more and more carbon credits from overseas. 
There is no way we can fudge and weave and pay lip-service to this issue. There is no way we can go to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and pay lip-service without it costing us. There is a way of thinking in New Zealand which has been promoted by National and by the ACT Party in particular that somehow we can dodge and weave our way out of this. There is a reason why New Zealand farmers are going around saying: “This is all bunkum. We don’t have to do this.” and it is in part because National and ACT are telling New Zealand farmers that this thing is all bunkum. Well it is not bunkum. There is no way out of it. The only question for New Zealand now is whether we reduce emissions domestically and save ourselves some money or whether we will have to purchase emission reductions from overseas and have to pay for it. 
If we want to have a prosperous economy in the future we have no option but to go down a low-carbon route. The sooner we get our heads around that and stop prevaricating and trying to avoid it and saying we will try to have a low target or whatever and the sooner we get our heads around the fact that we have to have a low-carbon economy if we wish to be a wealthy society the sooner we will start going down that path and actually put ourselves on a path to having a prosperous economy. Currently we are hoping this thing will go away but it will not. 
A few days ago the Green Party put out a study that showed the ways in which New Zealand can have a low-carbon economy reduce domestic emissions and increase domestic sinks. Roughly speaking the way we said we could have a 40 percent target was that a quarter of it would come from overseas—we acknowledge that—a quarter of it would come from forestry a quarter of it would come from the better management of the Department of Conservation estate and a quarter of it would come from a whole bunch of other measures. If we implement those measures we will put our economy on a low-carbon direction which means having a prosperous economy.