Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeTurei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 09 July 2013. Volume:692;Page:11759. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]1.METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green)to the Minister for Economic Development: Does he agree with the Department of Internal Affairs’ advice to his officials on the proposed international convention centre that “virtually any of these proposed concessions would almost certainly be followed by an increase in the number of people seeking help citing problems linked with casino machines or casino table games”; if not why not?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):No not necessarily; for three reasons. The first point is that the paper the member is referring to considers a theoretical increase in pokie machines of 850; the eventual agreement between Skycity and the Crown provides for only 230. The second important point is that the paper is advice from 2011. So of course it is not aware of the significant harm reduction measures negotiated in the agreement. The third point is that the number of pokie machines in New Zealand is currently falling and is continuing to fall by around 500 per year. This deal would only slow that reduction by around 6 months.Metiria Turei: Did the Minister read the warnings from the Department of Internal Affairs’ manager of gambling policy Mr John Markland that thousands of children would “almost certainly” be harmed from the increased gambling caused by this deal including being inadequately clothed and fed and suffering other examples of deprivation and poor parenting and why did he then pursue the deal?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I do not recall that specific advice but I have read a range of advice with various propositions along those lines. Again I would make the point to the member that there are two or three things that mitigate against that. Firstly it is by no means clear at all that a marginal increase in machines in one casino would increase gambling harm overall especially when the total number of machines across the country and across Auckland continues to decline. Secondly the negotiated significant additional harm minimisation measures that apply to all gambling machines in that casino will together act to reduce harm. Thirdly once the concessions are in place there is absolutely nothing to stop the regulatory authorities introducing new harm minimisation measures over time.Metiria Turei: Has the Minister read his own regulatory impact statement containing evidence that gamblers do not keep to their own limits when using voluntary pre-commit cards—in short a voluntary pre-commit card is something like a voluntary seatbelt—and is he not making a nonsense of the sinking-lid policy by guaranteeing that Auckland will have at least 2000 pokie machines for the next 35 years despite the hard work of community groups like the Ōtara Gambling and Alcohol Action Group to reduce the number of pokies in Auckland City?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: To answer the last question first the reality of it is that the number of machines is continuing to decline and of course we are talking about only a marginal increase in the number of machines at that casino. The member also singles out one harm minimisation measure. Yes I have read the regulatory impact statement which makes it quite clear that it is difficult to actually determine whether there will be additional risk caused by these additional machines or not just as it is difficult to quantify the potential size of any increased risk of harm. It notes that most gambling does not cause harm either to the gambler or to others.Metiria Turei: I seek leave to table a document compiled by my office of information from Auckland Council showing that there has been a reduction of 1189 pokie machines since 2004 soon to be increased as a result of this deal by 470 automated machines.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection to that being done? There appears to be none. The document can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.Metiria Turei: Did the Minister and John Key consider financing an international convention centre in a way that would not pose the risk of harm to thousands of children; if not why not?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Cabinet actually did discuss of course the various matters around this arrangement before it made its decision—I suppose in much the same way that the Green Party might have done back in 2001 when deciding not to publicly oppose a similar arrangement that took place under the previous Labour Government in 2001 and 2002. They did not call that a dirty deal.Metiria Turei: How did—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order!Metiria Turei: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is difficult to hear with the shouting over the other side.Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order!Metiria Turei: How did the Minister weigh up the increased risk of problem gambling - related suicide when deciding to pursue this deal?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I think it is quite clear in the papers that Cabinet assessed all those risks as I said in much the same way as previous Governments would have when they endorsed and encouraged a much smaller convention centre to be built in 2003 with a very similar number of gambling machines.Metiria Turei: Given the warnings about the harm it poses the obvious moral element in this legislation referring to gambling—[Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member can start that question again.Metiria Turei: Given the warnings about the harm it poses the obvious moral elements in this legislation as it refers to gambling law and the comments of David McGee that non-party voting is designed for issues like gambling will he support a personal vote on this legislation to allow MPs to vote with their conscience?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No. This is a Government measure and it is my belief that parties in favour of investments jobs and growth for New Zealanders will vote in favour of this bill. Parties that are against those things will vote against it just like they voted against the Resource Management Act changes the Crown minerals changes the exclusive economic zone legislation and the ultra-fast broadband legislation.Metiria Turei: Will the Minister now assure the House that no child will suffer ill treatment as a result of the regulatory concessions in this deal and that no adult will harm themselves as a result of the increased gambling opportunities it creates?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No Minister can give that assurance in the same way they cannot in regard to any other human activity that potentially causes social harm if the harm is not minimised properly—and this Government is seeking to do that. If the Greens had a strong principle on this why are they worried about just these 230 machines? Why are they not calling immediately for all gambling to be closed down and for the 3500 people in Skycity to no longer have a job?Metiria Turei: I seek leave to table advice received by me under the Official Information Act from the Ministry of Economic Development from April 2013 showing that there are some 71500 people who are negatively affected by casino gambling of whom half are children.Mr SPEAKER: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.