Points of Order — Members’ Pecuniary Interests—Allegation 
Points of Order — Members’ Pecuniary Interests—Allegation 
[Volume:648;Page:17538] 
Points of Order 
Members’ Pecuniary Interests—Allegation 
CRAIG FOSS (National—Tukituki) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Yesterday I took offence at accusations made in this House by the Rt Hon Winston Peters that were designed to discredit my integrity. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member presumably is raising a point of order? 
CRAIG FOSS 
: Yes. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would you please get to the point. It sounds like you are seeking leave for a personal statement. 
CRAIG FOSS 
: No I am not—one and a half sentences and we will be there. I did disprove those allegations by tabling documents— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: This is a personal statement. 
CRAIG FOSS 
: Madam Speaker I am going to request something of you right now. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would you please request it and then explain what it is so that we have it in context. 
CRAIG FOSS 
: The allegations caused me great offence. I ask that you require Winston Peters to withdraw and apologise for those allegations. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member well knows that that should have been requested at the time. 
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No I have already ruled on it Mr Jones. You are a bit late. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. First let me inform the House that it was quite unclear what Mr Peters was alleging yesterday during question time. Subsequent to question time after getting hold of a transcript from the television service it became clear exactly what Mr Peters had said. At that point a staff member from the National Party circulated material in the gallery to make it abundantly clear that Mr Peters had got it wrong. Mr Foss has just returned to the capital having been away from Wellington. This is his first opportunity to raise this matter. I do not think it is unreasonable—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Let Mr Brownlee finish in silence please. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I do not think it is unreasonable that he makes a request of you to require Mr Peters to withdraw and apologise for the allegations that he made which were totally untrue. 
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
: 
 In the first instance Mr Foss was given leave yesterday to make a personal explanation which he did. Mr Brownlee seems to be unaware of that fact. In the second instance Mr Foss is wrong in what he has been saying because I have in front of me a Companies Office search for Cynotech Holdings Ltd that indicates that Craig Foss is the holder of 2524750 shares. Further along in this Companies Office record there is reference to three people who held shares and that might suggest that those three people were trustees. That is the usual way in which one implies that there might be a trust. But as it stands on the Companies Office register the Rt Hon Winston Peters is absolutely correct. There is only one person who holds the shares and there is no indication that those shares are being held on the part of a trust. Of course the Companies Office register does not say that one is a trustee of a trust. So all we need from Mr Foss is an explanation to say that he is the sole trustee of this trust and that he has a beneficial interest in this trust and then the matter would be at an end. As it stands there is clearly an ambiguity. I would just ask Mr Foss to clarify that he is the trustee of this trust because we know that trusts are not disclosed on the Companies Office register. That would end the matter. 
CRAIG FOSS (National—Tukituki) 
: 
 I took offence at the allegations made yesterday. I refuted them yesterday in a personal statement made when I tabled a document in the House. I am still offended by the allegations made yesterday Madam Speaker. I ask that you require the member to withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I think the member has got himself into a bit of difficulty now because if he made a personal statement yesterday and was seeking an apology he should have sought it from Mr Peters straight away. He should not come back into the House now—in the middle of question time—and raise another point of order. Apparently in the light of recent discussion he was in fact using a trust to cover his owning 2.5 million shares—not an insignificant amount. We have had very many accusations flying across this House over the last week or two about things being held in trusts. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 The allegations that I made went with the documents and Mr Dail Jones has clearly explained what those documents say. We are prepared to give Mr Foss a chance to clear up the ambiguity referred to but he does not want to. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I will take Mr Brownlee’s point of order then I will rule. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
: 
 If New Zealand First members are so clever at working out for themselves Mr Foss’s arrangements around these matters and my noting also that Mr Foss did make a declaration on his pecuniary interests register why do they know so little about themselves? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No I have ruled on the matter but I refer members to Speaker’s ruling 19/3. I think it is important that if members take offence that fact is raised at the time. That Speaker’s ruling states that it must be raised at the time. If a member is not present in the House that is too bad; the House cannot go back to the matter just because a member was not present. As was also pointed out however the member did have the opportunity to make a personal statement and made it. I remind members that the general debate is coming up after question time and members may wish to raise these matters then. 
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
: 
 I seek leave to table the first two pages of a Companies Office search for Cynotech Holdings Ltd. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I need to call to your attention our observation that when Mr Foss first attempted to raise this matter you stopped him mid-sentence on at least two occasions inside a minute. But Mr Jones who completely ignored the convention that one does not go back over matters raised in a personal statement was allowed to drone on for quite some time without any interruption whatsoever. In fact it was only when an interjection was made during the point of order that he finally shut up. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Leader of the House) 
: 
 Clearly what Mr Jones was referring to was the nature of the allegations made about what Mr Peters was supposed to have said. He was presenting documentary evidence to support Mr Peters’ claims; he was not in fact questioning the statement made by Mr Foss. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think that the problem arose because Mr Foss did not stand and say “Point of order.”; he just launched forth on what sounded like a personal statement. I think we all learn from this kind of experience. I have referred members to the Speaker’s ruling and I have ruled on the matter consistent with it. 
CRAIG FOSS (National—Tukituki) 
: 
 I seek the leave of the House to table a document that outlines the major shareholding of Cynotech Holdings Ltd. It is its annual report 2004 which lists the members of the Foss Family Trust as shareholders—a publicly listed company. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Question time resumed.