Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Turei Metiria: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 31 July 2012. Volume:682;Page:4063. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
3. 
METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Ka whakatau a ia i te koreroiwhakaputainamana ara “I do not accept the view that we are a deeply unequal country. I do not think the evidence suggests that and people drawing that conclusion are wrong”? 
[ 
Does he stand by the statement made on his behalf “I do not accept the view that we are a deeply unequal country. I do not think the evidence suggests that and people drawing that conclusion are wrong”? 
] 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes. 
Metiria Turei 
: Is it the Prime Minister’s view that the New Zealand Council of Christian Social Services is wrong to say inequality is worsening when its  
Vulnerability Report 
 has found that Maori and Pacific unemployment rates are now three times that of Pakeha and rising? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Yes it could be wrong. The most comprehensive study of inequality in New Zealand is  
Household incomes in New Zealand: Trends in indicators of inequality and hardship 1982 to 2010 
—that is the most recent data—which actually shows that the gap is narrowing. The reason for that—and one of the problems with the Council of Christian Social Services report—is that if somebody wants to do a proper analysis you have to look at household incomes not only individual incomes; you have to adjust for household income and family size; and you have to look at all sorts of transfer payments made by the Government like Working for Families New Zealand superannuation and other benefits. From the best of my knowledge that particular scheme did not do that. 
Metiria Turei 
: Given that the authors of that report attributed the slight reduction to a blip in investment income for the very richest New Zealanders why is New Zealand not deeply unequal when the wealth of those on the rich list grew by 18 percent but the median income for Maori and Pacific people and sole parents with children actually dropped over that same period? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Firstly I think I would take the numbers on the rich list with a grain of salt with the greatest respect. Secondly the reason why I take the particular report as being the most comprehensive is because it is. It is the only report that actually looks at household size and household income and adjusts for all of the payments made by the Government. I think if one looks at the overall situation in New Zealand we are pretty equal compared with many other countries. We are on a par with Australia and Canada and we are lot more equal than countries like the United States and Mexico. Three-quarters of all New Zealanders pay no more than 17.5 percent in tax. If you earn under $50000 a year and have two children in New Zealand you pay zero tax. That strikes me as being pretty fair. 
Metiria Turei 
: Does the Prime Minister expect that workers at our leading listed companies will agree that New Zealand is not deeply unequal when their chief executive officers earned on average 22.5 times more than those workers’ salaries and granted themselves pay rises of $50000 last year while their employees received an average rise of just $500? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I cannot speak for those particular workers. I mean I am just not in a position to do that. But what I can say is that the Government delivers a tax system and a redistribution system that on the surface of things at least to me looks pretty fair. That is why we go out there and support Working for Families when it has a cost in the order of about $2.8 billion. That is why we provide benefit support to over 300000 New Zealanders. That is why we put in billions of dollars when it comes to the accommodation supplement. That is why we do a number of things in this country to try to support those who are not in a position to support themselves as well or need an extra helping hand. On balance I reckon that looks reasonably fair. 
Metiria Turei 
: What conclusion does the Prime Minister draw about inequality when according to the KidsCan foundation one in 11 children in the lowest four deciles is hungry at school 208 schools are currently using the KidsCan food programme and there are nearly 200 schools waiting for KidsCan to be able to feed their kids too? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Firstly let me say that KidsCan is a good programme. Secondly it is a good example of where the private sector can play a role because you have got a number of companies that have been stepping up and assisting that programme. Thirdly if you go and have a look at the children in New Zealand who are in the lowest-income households a lot of those are in welfare-based households—not exclusively but a lot of them are in welfare-based households. That is why the Government has a programme for investing in people to try to assist them off welfare and into work. We know that in New Zealand if you work 20 hours a week or more then you will be substantially better off than you would be even if you were on the DPB. That is how strong the incentive payments are when it comes to Working for Families with the likes of the in-work tax credit. So in my view if we really want to help people in New Zealand we actually help them into work. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Does he consider an increase in food-based hardship grants from 280000 to roughly more than half a million to be an indicator of an increase in hardship? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I cannot verify the numbers from the member. She could be right; she could be wrong. I do not know. Secondly— 
Grant Robertson 
: Just answer. 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: OK we will get there. There is no rush. I have got plenty of time. I know we are all off to Samoa but you know we have plenty of time to get our way through this. Secondly the issue around people who are getting hardship payments probably indicates an increase in unemployment. That is the reality of a recession but it is also again why the Government puts so much support into trying to help people whether it is a 9-day fortnight or a variety of other mechanisms that the Labour Party opposed. 
Metiria Turei 
: How can his plan for job growth which he referred to earlier be the answer when the Department of Labour warned him in December last year that almost all the job growth that he is talking about will benefit professional men and the unemployed low-skilled workers and women will miss out almost completely? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I reject that analysis from the member. If one goes and has a look at the number of people who were on the unemployment benefit 18 months ago it was 69000; today it is around about 50000. If one goes and has a look at the number of young people who were on an unemployment benefit 18 months ago it was 23500; today it is 13500. If one wants to really create employment for New Zealanders the way to do that is to have an environment that supports the creation of jobs. Everything that happens on this side of the House does that and everything that happens on this side of the House is opposed by Labour and the Greens. That is because Labour and the Greens are against anything that would create jobs for New Zealanders. 
Metiria Turei 
: Mr Speaker—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I want to hear Metiria Turei. 
Metiria Turei 
: Given that two out of every five children—two out of every five children—who live in poverty are in working families would he agree as a first step to support Dr David Clark’s bill to increase the minimum wage to $15 an hour for New Zealand’s poorest working families? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: No and the reason for that is that we run the risk that people will lose their jobs. Sure some people might get paid $15 an hour but many other people on the advice we have would end up on the dole queue. I simply say this: in the last 4 years we have heard from Labour and the Greens that the minimum wage should be $15 an hour but when they were in Government they were not saying that were they? 
Metiria Turei 
: Mr Speaker—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I want to hear Metiria Turei. 
Metiria Turei 
: Why does the Prime Minister continually refuse to address the growing gap between rich and poor when even the World Economic Forum has said in its global risk report this year that although reducing debt is important severe income inequality is a greater global threat? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: All I can tell the member is that if she wants to go and look at the  
Household incomes in New Zealand: trends in indicators of inequality and hardship 
 this is the most comprehensive report. I know that the member does not like it because it actually does the job properly and looks by household by members and by redistribution. The Greens want to look in isolation which is what the Greens always do. When they go and look at the tax package they leave out the bits where people pay it and count the bits where they get something. But that is the voodoo economics that comes out of the Green Party. It is no different from when the member put out a press release a few weeks ago criticising the Government for the OECD report on income inequality— 
Divided We Stand— 
then forgot to mention that by the way the report was commenting on what happened in 2008 when the Green Party was propping up those losers over there.