Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Urgent Questions 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Urgent Questions 
[Volume:634;Page:5418] 
8.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: What reports has he received on doctors pharmacists rest home operators and other health providers wrongly claiming public money and what efforts are being made to recover this public money? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 I have received reports that a significant amount of public money that was misused has been repaid to the Ministry of Health as a result of comprehensive audit processes. The sanctions available to the district health boards and the Ministry of Health include prosecution and referral to professional bodies but often genuine mistakes are made and can be resolved amicably. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Should providers who wrongly claim public money either deliberately or inadvertently be expected to pay it back; if so why? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Generally yes. However the Ministry of Health is always careful to ensure that people who may be in breach of rules are judged solely on the rules that were in force at the time not tighter rules drafted after the event. 
Ann Hartley 
: Has he received any reports on the proportion of health professionals who misuse taxpayers’ money? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I am advised that since 1993 only 36 serious cases of fraud by health professionals have required prosecution. That is 36 cases in 13 years for a work force of around 100000 people. Nearly everyone plays by the rules. The bad guys go to court. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: If these people think they were following the rules and deny that they broke the rules but the authorities say they did wrongly claim the money and it should be repaid should not the Minister be requiring those people to repay the money that the authorities have said is owed? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Let me say to the member again that the Ministry of Health is always careful to ensure that people who may be in breach of rules are judged solely on the rules that were in force at that time not tighter rules drafted after the event. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Does he stand by the report today: “ ‘We won’t repay’ says Hodgson as Labour hits back at auditor” and is he aware that many of the providers that his Government is requiring to repay the money were audited and were given clean bills of health by their auditors and by the Ministry of Health yet are still being required to pay the money; why are there two standards of obligation with this Government? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: This Government operates one standard of obligation and we are very careful that we not only obey the law but obey the spirit of the law—that is to say we do not think it is a good idea to launder 92 percent of our election budget through a trust by way of example. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why does he think health providers who rip off the taxpayer have to pay it back but does not think the New Zealand Labour Party has to pay it back? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The Labour Party remains resolute that we have not ripped off anyone. 
Dr Jonathan Coleman 
: Is the Minister aware of the decision of the District Court that the withholding of public money from the compensation awarded to a Lake Alice Hospital second-round claimant by the Ministry of Health is unjust does he not agree that the Government should pay back all other Lake Alice Hospital claimants who are in the same position and does this jog his memory about any other debts he might have? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: My understanding is that the member’s question refers to very recent events so I will take my counsel on it.