Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeHipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 30 July 2013. Volume:692;Page:12029. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]9.CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka)to theMinister of Education: Does she agree with the Minister of Finance that “The Government is focusing on ensuring that every teacher put in front of our children is competent”?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):Yes because teachers are the most powerful in-school influence on learning.Chris Hipkins: Will those teaching in charter schools be required to have an appropriate teaching qualification; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I assume that the member is referring to partnership schools kura hourua. We are still going through the process of confirming them and they will have the ability to propose that a percentage of their staff are not registered teachers but being unregistered is not the same as being unqualified.Chris Hipkins: What will be the minimum qualification requirement for those teaching in charter schools?Hon HEKIA PARATA: As I said we have not yet completed the process for selecting partnership schools kura hourua. What the ultimate outcome will be is that they will have a fixed-term specified contract for delivering outcomes and that they will therefore employ people who have the competencies to deliver those outcomes.Chris Hipkins: Given that her answer appears to be none does she agree—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption ] Order! Would the member start the question again.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption ]Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is a point of order and it will be heard in silence.Chris Hipkins: I am happy to start my question again but if you could indicate to me which part of the question you had a problem with I would be happy to do so.Mr SPEAKER: And that will create disorder with a point of order like that. The member has been given the opportunity to ask a supplementary question. I would give him the advice that he should use it.Chris Hipkins: Given that her answer appears to be none does she—Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member wants the opportunity to continue asking supplementary questions would the member take that opportunity and simply ask the supplementary question.Chris Hipkins: In question time Ministers answer questions—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is this a point of order?Chris Hipkins: A point of order.Mr SPEAKER: Oh it is now a point of order. Then it is a point of order and it will be heard in silence.Chris Hipkins: In question time members ask questions Ministers answer them and members are then at liberty to ask supplementary questions based on the Ministers’ answers. Otherwise what is the point?Mr SPEAKER: I advise the member to go back and look at his question and to go back and look at the answer that was given. The member asked what would be the minimum qualifications and the Minister effectively said that the criteria had not yet been established. She answered the question. [Interruption ] Order! That does not mean none at all. So the member—Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Are you indicating that in deciding which supplementary questions will be allowed you are going to give an interpretation of a Minister’s answer that was not in their answer and then determine that a supplementary question is out of order?Mr SPEAKER: No what I am saying to the member—and I will give him one more chance—Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It has long been established that a question cannot contain an inference and that is the offence that the member commits.Hon Trevor Mallard: Well speaking to that point of order—Mr SPEAKER: I will hear from the Hon Trevor Mallard.Hon Trevor Mallard: There was no such inference made. There was a statement made by the Minister. The Minister made it clear that to date no requirements for qualifications had been made. None had been made. She indicated that it was possible but none had been made and my view is that you have inferred something that was not implied by the Minister.Mr SPEAKER: The member is perfectly entitled to that interpretation of the answer. I did not interpret the answer in the way that the Hon Trevor Mallard has interpreted the answer; that can often happen. What I ask the member to do is to refer to Standing Order 377 which will explain to him that questions must be concise. They must not contain arguments inferences imputations epithets ironical expressions etc. and I ask the member to simply ask the supplementary question.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I accept absolutely that the Standing Order that you have quoted is right but we have in this House now—and in this term of Parliament particularly—moved to a position where members will regularly begin their questions with “Given that”. That is now common practice in the House including by members of the Government. So are you indicating now that that practice is out of order—Mr SPEAKER: No.Chris Hipkins: —because that would be a significant change—Mr SPEAKER: No.Chris Hipkins: —to what has become—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am not doing that. I am inviting the member to continue with his line of questioning but to adhere to the Standing Orders. If the member does not wish to do that I will move immediately to question No. 10.Chris Hipkins: Have any minimum qualification requirements for those teaching in charter schools been established? [Interruption ]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am going to now ask the member to say that again because of the interjection. I had trouble hearing that question.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am sure that the Minister heard it.Mr SPEAKER: I need to—Hon Members: Oh!Mr SPEAKER: Order!Chris Hipkins: It was her side that was interjecting.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I need to hear the question so that I can determine whether it has been satisfactorily addressed for my satisfaction. I did not hear it. I am asking the member to ask it again.Chris Hipkins: Have any qualification requirements for those teaching in charter schools been established?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Yes. It is a requirement of partnership schools kura hourua to propose in addition to registered teachers what other staffing they may have. But as yet the process is still under way and I cannot confirm what the final result will be.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We are now in a difficult position where the Minister of Education’s answer in that one seems to contradict what she said before when she said it had not been established yet.Mr SPEAKER: That is then a matter of debate. The member has further supplementary questions I take it?Chris Hipkins: Does she agree with Bill English’s further statement that parents want to see the teaching profession set the hurdles high enough so that they can assume their children will always get a competent effective teacher; if so why is she intending to allow unqualified unregistered teachers to teach in charter schools?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Yes I do agree with the Minister of Finance’s comments in that regard. Can I remind that member that in the 2500 schools this country has we already have a provision for limited authorities to teach for people who do not hold a teaching qualification. May I further remind the member that in order for our young people to be successful in many of our vocational pathways bricklayers builders baristas and bakers do impart skills that make it possible for them to have a better choice at a future career pathway and that is in addition to the vast majority of registered teachers.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have listened to these questions very very carefully. [Interruption ]Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is a point of order.Rt Hon Winston Peters: The essence of the questions on which the member sought to ask further questions was: have any minimum standards been established? That is the essence of what was asked and we are still no wiser. Despite your rulings and points of order we are now here on the critical issue of this subject—have any minimum standards been established—and the Minister has failed to answer. What is your interpretation of what she said?Mr SPEAKER: I gave that earlier in a ruling on a point of order saying that I understood from a very early answer to this that the Minister is saying they are still working on the criteria.Hon HEKIA PARATA: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In one of the answers I gave I said there will be a requirement for registered teachers but a proportion may not be required to hold a registered teacher’s qualification. That means that a proportion will indeed hold minimum registered teacher qualifications.Mr SPEAKER: I am not sure that is a helpful point of order either.Chris Hipkins: What proportion of teachers will be required to hold a registered teaching qualification?Hon HEKIA PARATA: A significant proportion. That has been clear in the legislation considered by the Education and Science Committee on which that membersat. It was made clear that sponsors would be able to propose a proportion that did not hold a registered teacher’s qualification.Chris Hipkins: Does she agree with Bill English’s further statement that the core problem is that the teaching profession does not have clear standards for who can be a teacher and that the vague standards it does have are not often implemented; if so how does removing the requirement for teachers in charter schools to be registered at all address the problem?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I am not sure whether that is an accurate quote or not of what the Minister of Finance said. What I do know is that we as a Government are focused on raising the quality of teaching. We have put significant money where our mouths are unlike the Opposition members while they were in administration who sat around wringing their hands and then allowing a decline in the achievement of all students. This Government is not prepared to do that because we know that every New Zealand child deserves a better education and we are funding for that outcome.