Lees-Galloway IainHon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): Thank you Madam Chair and—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Sorry I just got caught on the people turning up for work with no clothes! Hon IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY: I did a bit too. I thank members for their multiple contributions on the 90-day trial period. I listened closely and I don't think anything was raised that I didn't address in my earlier contribution but earlier in the debate members did raise the issue of reinstatement as the primary remedy in cases where a dismissal has been found to be unjustifiable. Now this is a restoration again of something that was in place when Labour was last in Government. I don't recall when it was repealed by National—whether it was in the 2009 changes or if it was in 2015—but this had been in place successfully for a long period of time previously without any of the concerns that members have raised. I just want to clarify for members exactly what this bill does: it restores reinstatement as the primary remedy. Reinstatement is a remedy that is available right now. It is certainly an option that the Employment Relations Authority can find that someone ought to be reinstated to their role. What we're saying here is that reinstatement should be the primary remedy and the point of that is to get the conversation back to being one about how we can put this relationship back together again. Rather than saying How big a payout is it going to take to see someone off and never darken their employer's doorstep again?" let's see if there's a possibility to restore the relationship. Of course that's not going to be the case all of the time and I dare say probably not even the majority of the time but it is about just changing the nature of that conversation. I would point out that reinstatement can only be imposed if the person is found to have been unjustifiably dismissed. Scott Simpson raised the question: what if someone is reinstated against their will? Reinstatement is only an option if the employee indicates that reinstatement is something that they want. The authority must make an assessment of whether it is practicable or reasonable to reinstate someone and I want to raise the matter that Nikki Kaye raised. She was concerned about people who had been dismissed from an early childhood centre or maybe dismissed from an aged-care facility because they posed some threat to the children or the residents that they were taking care of. First of all I suspect that if that was the case in all likelihood that would not be an employment matter—that might be a different matter altogether. It may well be an employment matter though and if it was found that that person did pose a risk to those people it would absolutely be something that I would expect the Employment Relations Authority to take into account. It would be highly highly unlikely and I would dare to go so far as to say impossible for reinstatement to be an appropriate course of action in that situation. Certainly if the person through an employment matter was found to pose a risk it would be highly unlikely that the dismissal would be found to be unjustified. Dan Bidois also raised that reinstatement is not always the best remedy. It's absolutely true that reinstatement will not always be the best remedy; it is simply the primary remedy. Scott Simpson questioned the terms "reasonable" and "practicable". "Reasonable" and "practicable" are found throughout our employment relations legislation and throughout our health and safety legislation—legislation that was introduced and passed through all its stages in this Parliament led by a Government that the National Party was leading at the time. This is normal language. It's well understood by the courts. It's well understood by everybody who understands employment legislation and health and safety legislation. It's been around for a very very long time. So just to reiterate this is about restoring reinstatement as the primary remedy—not as the only remedy and not as a compulsory remedy—and it's simply about changing the conversation from one of "What does it take to get out of this relationship?" to being one of "Is there any opportunity to restore the relationship?""