English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10763] 
4.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she have confidence in the Minister for the Environment; if so why? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Deputy Prime Minister)  
on behalf of the 
 Prime Minister 
: Yes; because he is a hard-working and conscientious Minister. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that she has told the public that the reason David Benson-Pope has not been sacked is that she believes him that she looked him in the eye and took his word and how does she feel about that 2 days later when he has changed his story in two significant respects—firstly about whether he knew of the rumours of a conflict of interest; and secondly over the number of phone calls between his office and Hugh Logan? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I can confirm that that is what the Prime Minister said. She has seen no evidence at this point to change her view on that matter. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is the Prime Minister not aware that despite David Benson-Pope’s frequent statements that there was one phone call between his office and the chief executive of the Ministry for the Environment it was revealed yesterday that there were at least four calls over 2 days and how likely does she think it that a Minister would not know that a discussion about an employment matter was going on between his close friend and chief adviser and the chief executive of his department for 2 days? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The Minister has been clear that he did not know that Mr Hurring made the initial phone call to Mr Logan. He has already confirmed that Mr Logan informed him about matters the next day. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can we take it that this is another example of the Prime Minister’s slippery analysis when she has just told the House that Mr Benson-Pope did not know about the “initial” phone call and does that mean that she does not believe him when he said there were no other phone calls there was only one? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Given the nature of that question I advise the member that one thing more dangerous than trying to put words into my mouth is trying to put words into the Prime Minister’s mouth. 
Hon Bill English 
: Given that the Prime Minister is aware that David Benson-Pope’s story has changed in two significant respects how many changes to his story does she have to hear before she will decide she does not believe him? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member clearly did not listen to my previous answer. He continues to preface a question with an assertion then base the rest of the question on that assertion. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is it not true that David Benson-Pope has been caught out twice before with less than fulsome explanations on the public record and why is she the only person in New Zealand who believes him on this matter? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: As the Prime Minister said in the House earlier this week a member’s word should be taken unless there is clear evidence to the contrary. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Prime Minister understand that the real situation is probably that David Benson-Pope heard the rumours and said as quoted yesterday “I don’t want that woman in my office.” and his close friend and political adviser Mr Hurring went off and did the dirty work? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I think the member has already managed to exceed J K Rowling in extended works of fiction in this House. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Prime Minister answer the question I asked earlier: how many significant changes does she need to hear from David Benson-Pope’s story—one of which he confirmed himself so it is not fiction unless that is what she thinks of everything he says—that he said himself there were four calls; how many more examples of this does she need before she concludes what everyone else concludes which is that the gentleman is not telling the truth? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member has come up with nothing that changes the essence of what happened. 
Hon Bill English 
: What’s the essence? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: He does not really want to know does he. That is the problem. Mr Hurring rang Mr Logan to say to Mr Logan: “Is this rumour true?”. Mr Logan came back to respond to Mr Hurring and Mr Logan briefed Mr Benson-Pope on what Mr Logan had done in conjunction with the State Services Commission. I might say in fairness to Madeleine Setchell if only the information she had originally given had been passed on to the rest of the people involved this probably never would have got to the point where this immense pile of paranoid mystery would have been built around it by Mr English.