Hughes Gareth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Personal Explanation—Comments Made at Environmental Defence Society Conference 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hughes Gareth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Personal Explanation—Comments Made at Environmental Defence Society Conference 
[Sitting date: 25 July 2012. Volume:682;Page:3890. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
7. 
GARETH HUGHES (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Energy and Resources 
: Does he stand by his statement on the  
Campbell Live 
 9 February programme on fracking that “In Taranaki it’s actually been done very very well. There’s been no effect on the environment whatsoever”? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Energy and Resources) 
: 
 In context yes; obviously everything has an environmental effect. I am interested in environmental effects that are significant. As I understand it the Taranaki Regional Council stands by its position. There have been no significant environmental effects caused by hydraulic fracturing in Taranaki. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Is groundwater contamination at four Kapuni fracking sites which has left water there unfit for potable water or stock use an example of fracking that has been done very very well? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: Well the statement is incorrect. In the past some pits were used to receive fluids from fracked wells. However I am advised that the fluid returns were highly unlikely to be the source. The monitoring undertaken shows this is a legacy issue. It happened in the past. It is highly unlikely to be associated with hydraulic fracturing according to the Taranaki Regional Council the only independent body in this debate. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Is the common use of flare pits in Taranaki an example of fracking being done very very well or is it—as Alex Ferguson the chief executive officer of Apache Corporation reportedly called it—abhorrent noting that his fracking company would not use flare pits on the East Coast? 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Tena koe Mr Speaker. I tera wiki i korero au ki te Whare kia aro nui ki te ahuatanga o Te Wiki o Te Reo Maori. Kua rongo ake a “O-tacky” kua rongo ake a “Tarra-nacky”. Ko taku inoi kia tika ra no te whakahua o nga ingoa Maori i tenei wiki mo Te Reo Maori. Ko te ingoa e tika ana ko Otaki i tenei wa ko Taranaki. Kia ora tatau. 
[ 
Greetings to you Mr Speaker. Last week I said to the House that it should pay attention to the situation that relates to Maori Language Week. I have just heard “O-tacky” and “Tarra-nacky”. My plea is that the pronunciation of Maori names must be correct in this week for the Maori language. The proper name is Otaki and at this point in time it is Taranaki. Greetings to us. 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I appreciate the goodwill in the member’s point of order. It is not strictly a point of order but under the circumstances I think his point is well made. Where did we get to? The honourable Minister is to answer. Does the Minister remember the question asked? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: I am happy to answer. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Hon Phil Heatley. 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: A number of groups have views on this practice and indeed on oil and gas exploration. Unfortunately on the far right they want to bring out the bulldozers. We as a party are saying no. We want to be environmentally sensible and be safe. On the left side they want to do nothing—that is the Green Party. Fortunately we in the National Party—and the Labour Party which promoted deep-sea oil and gas exploration for 9 years—are sitting in the middle. We are taking a sensible approach. 
Gareth Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a clear question. It was not about what other people think about it; it was about what the Minister who is meant to be regulating thinks about flare pits in Taranaki. Is fracking very very good or is it abhorrent? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I hope the member is quite finished. The Minister explained how he saw those issues. He said that the Government is in the middle on those issues. That did not seem to be an unreasonable way to answer the question. I accept it may not have been exactly the answer the member was seeking but it was not an unreasonable answer. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wonder whether in order to avoid some of the problems highlighted by Mr Flavell “Kia ora Catherine” could translate for the member asking the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member has got me totally whacked there. 
Jonathan Young 
: What reports has he seen of the Taranaki Regional Council’s response to allegations in relation to fracking in Taranaki? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: Well I have seen a letter written by the chief executive of the Taranaki Regional Council in May to the  
Taranaki Daily News 
 that states this: “One of Mr Hughes’ statements is an exaggeration going far beyond the facts as they stand and the other two of his statements defy the facts altogether … An informed and considered public discussion of the pros and cons of hydraulic fracturing deserves better than this. The public has the right to expect integrity in such discussions.” 
Gareth Hughes 
: In that context does the Minister stand by his statement made to the  
Press 
 that he has full confidence in the ability of the council to manage fracking when in the context of that report it was disclosed that the Taranaki Regional Council was not even aware of 11 fracking well sites and had to be alerted to them by the Ministry of Economic Development? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: No. I am very proud that the ministry has a handle on what is occurring out there. I believe that the Taranaki Regional Council has the most experience in New Zealand in terms of managing this practice. I hope that its experience can be passed on to other councils across the country. However if the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment comes back and says that there are ways that we can improve the practice I would expect the Taranaki Regional Council and other regional councils across the country to take heed of that. I look forward to her report. 
Gareth Hughes 
: How can the Minister keep saying that fracking is being done very very well when we have seen groundwater contamination we have seen abhorrent flaring practices and we have got a council that cannot even keep track of where the fracking wells are? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: We have addressed the issues that he has raised except the water contamination issue. The Taranaki Regional Council asked Hill Laboratories to do water-quality tests on areas that were alleged to have been affected by fracking. It did this on the Cheal sites. Interestingly the water was contaminated. It recorded that faecal coliforms were in the liquid from paddock runoff. I am advised that the Taranaki Regional Council’s monitoring of water quality is ongoing. So on one side the Greens are quite correct: there was water contamination. What they do not tell the general public is that the scientists are saying it is faecal coliforms. 
Gareth Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was a long answer but the Minister is referring to a report. The Minister knows that it is a very specific well and he did not even answer the question around the— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member cannot seriously expect the Speaker to intervene on the basis of the supplementary question that he asked. It was a pretty loaded supplementary question expressing the member’s view—making the member’s view pretty clear—and there is no way we can tie a Minister down to a particular answer given the nature of that question. 
Gareth Hughes 
: I seek leave to table the Ngaere water study by Hill Laboratories on behalf of the Taranaki Regional Council and I also seek leave to table its covering information statement from its website which shows that the report the Minister referenced was about one well site not the 30-plus— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those two documents. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 









Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: I seek leave to table a letter from the only independent authority in this debate the Taranaki Regional Council with its not-so-flattering comments about Gareth Hughes’ representation— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.