4. Question No. 4—HousingNICOLA WILLIS (National) to the Minister of HousingQuestion No. 4—Housing4. NICOLA WILLIS (National) to the Minister of Housing: Does she stand by her statement We will continue to build more public houses and make sure people move into them and off the Public Housing Register as quickly as possible"; if so what change has there been in the public housing register between November 2017 and today? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): In answer to the first part of the question yes. When we came into Government we stopped the mass sell-off of State houses by the previous Government which saw an overall reduction in State housing stock of 6000. Even taking into account transfers to community housing providers under the previous Government there was a net reduction in public housing of more than 1100 houses between 2009 and 2017. Not only did we stop the sell-off but we began the largest public housing build programme in a generation and I'm proud of the progress that we're making. Our pipeline will see 8350 additional public and transitional housing places by 2024. Just to clarify that is 18350 after we have accounted for demolitions. Currently there are 2195 State houses under construction while the community housing sector has planned another 526. This is in stark contrast from a decade ago in 2011 when there were just 123 new State houses built while over 514 were sold off or demolished. In answer to the second part of the question our Government has made changes to ensure the register reflects the true state of housing need in New Zealand. Hon Dr Nick Smith: How many? SPEAKER: Order! Order! Can I just say—I think it was Maureen Pugh. I'm not absolutely certain who made that interjection but can I just make it—it wasn't you? All right there was a "How many?" interjection which could've—[Interruption] Sorry? Hon Dr Nick Smith: It was myself. SPEAKER: It was you? Oh I thought that voice would be imprinted on my brain for ever. I'm now going to apologise both to Maureen Pugh and to Dr Nick Smith. But could I just remind people that the responsibility for making sure that questions are addressed is mine and actually the question didn't ask how many. Hon Dr Nick Smith: Point of order Mr Speaker. The primary question asked what change was there in the public housing register between November 2017 and today and I am none the wiser. SPEAKER: Well if the member had listened—[Interruption] No. Order! Order! I got into trouble with suggesting people use their ears yesterday but in this case I think it is true. If the member had listened to the tail end of the answer he would have got it. Nicola Willis: Can she confirm that the State house waiting list has increased from 6182 in December 2017 to 22409 as of November 2020 and will she commit to a date by which she will reduce the public waiting list back to pre-2017 levels? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: In regard to the first part of the question yes I can confirm that is the number. In answer to the second part of the question what I can commit to all New Zealanders is we won't do what the previous Government did. So when there was a review in 2011 of how to assess people's eligibility for a State house the waiting list was 8886. Despite there being—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will resume her seat. The remainder of this will be heard in silence. I warned people yesterday about the dangers of asking supplementaries with two legs. The member is getting the result of that now. Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: So what I can commit to all New Zealanders is we will not repeat what we saw from the previous Government which is what we saw in 2011 when there was a review of eligibility for public housing when there was a waiting list of 8886 and despite the flogging off of houses in that period of time the next year in June 2012 somehow magically that number had reduced to 4371. We are a Government that will have a waiting list that truly reflects housing need and not play games to fix the numbers. Nicola Willis: Does the Minister stand by her claim that the Government has stopped selling State houses and if so how does she reconcile that with her answer to written question No. 17637 showing Kāinga Ora has sold $64 million worth of State houses in the past three years? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Very simply. In—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Do the members want an answer or not? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: Very simply. There are circumstances where it may be the wrong house in the wrong place. Where it does not match demand in that area it is surplus to requirement. We made a commitment to the mass sale of State houses and we have kept to that. So what I can go through for that member's edification: in 2017-18—of which we're only responsible for part of that year—70 State houses were sold; in 2018-19 54 were sold and in 2019-20 64 were sold. I would compare this to 2014-15 when 577 were sold. I could compare this to 2015-16 when 428 were sold. Let us always remember that member is a member of a party that finished Government with fewer public houses than it started with. Nicola Willis: Can she confirm that only half of the new public housing places sourced by the Government in the past three years are additional newly built homes and can she tell the House how much money Kāinga Ora has spent in the past three years competing against other prospective buyers to buy up existing homes? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: In answer to the first part of the question what I can tell the member is that we have been steadily tracking down in buy-ins from Kāinga Ora. So in the 2017-18 year 24 percent—of which we were only responsible for a part of that period—were buy-ins as directly comparable to the year before 2016-17 where 41 percent of new builds were buy-ins. But we have been steadily tracking down and we have made our expectations very clear to Kāinga Ora that actually we're sitting around a quarter now that are buy-ins and we've made our expectations even clearer that we want that to decrease even further. But in 2010-11 67 percent of all new acquisitions were buy-ins under the previous Government. This is not something that we would be willing to tolerate. I have also made my expectations to community housing providers ("CHiPS") very clear. In the last two years 77 percent of all their new acquisitions have been buy-ins and I've made it very clear to them that the relationship has to be based on additionality. We will be adding to the housing stock and we want to work with the community housing providers to do likewise. Nicola Willis: Well can she confirm her answer to written question No. 18461 which lists more than three-quarters of a billion dollars' worth of houses that have been bought in from the private market by the Government in the past three years to be used for State housing? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: I'll have to go back and look at the specifics of that question to answer the member whether that is an aggregate number that covers both Kāinga Ora and "CHiPS" or whether it is just Kāinga Ora. But as I said we have seen a steady decline in the number of buy-ins that Kāinga Ora have been doing. Bear in mind that actually this was an agency that had to re-equip itself to actually build houses rather than sell them off as had been happening under the previous Government. But we have made our expectations and I as Minister have made my expectations both to Kāinga Ora and the "CHiPS" clear that we want to see more houses built. We won't be selling them off. Hon Dr Nick Smith: The problem is you are. Nicola Willis: What does she say—SPEAKER: Order! Nicola Willis: What does she say to the hundreds of New Zealanders who missed out on buying a home in the past three years because they were outbid by the Government? Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS: What I'd say is we're doing far less of it than the previous Government when they were out there getting 67 percent of their acquisitions in the public housing sector from the market. We're backing New Zealanders we're helping with the housing crisis and we're actually adding to the housing stock. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Mr Brownlee? No. All right."