Sepuloni Carmel: Gangs and Organised Crime Bill — Second Reading 
Sepuloni Carmel: Gangs and Organised Crime Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:657;Page:6300] 
CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour) 
: 
 I rise to speak on the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill. I think it is very important to note that across the House there is widespread support for this bill. That is indicative of the fact that there is widespread concern about crime and criminal activity. So I am a little bit concerned that the previous speaker Ms Lee seemed to think that it was only a National Government concern and that the rest of Parliament does not care about crime. That is incredibly unfair. We agree that many insidious acts have been committed by people who are somehow involved with gangs or organised crime. 
One thing that has not been touched on much today is that we are talking about just the leather-wearing gang members. There are also the white collar criminals who are often let off the hook and perceived as being somewhat cleaner than those gang members that are associated with crimes and who wear leather jackets. I think we need to be very careful that when we talk about this bill we make sure we acknowledge the fact that it is not just leather-wearing gang members that we are talking about. We are also talking about white collar criminals. 
Before I go into the specifics of the bill it is really important to note—and Mr Jones touched on this before—that the National Government has pushed this bill through and we are supporting it but it did not really have to do that. It could have just supported the Organised Crime (Penalties and Sentencing) Bill which had already been to select committee and which had already had robust discussion and debate when Labour was in Government. Instead National decided to start from scratch so that it could take ownership. 
I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There has been a lot of talking going on with a particular member over there and it is quite distracting. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Members can converse. I am the judge of whether there is too much noise but I will ask you to continue. I do make the point that members cannot stand and talk in the aisles. That is a point that has been made on many occasions and that needs to stop. 
CARMEL SEPULONI 
: Labour supports this bill. We are committed to removing criminal gangs from our society. We acknowledge that organised crime is a serious problem. In fact it is estimated that up to 30 percent of prisoners currently identify as gang members or are affiliated to gangs in some way. Labour does not tolerate gang leaders profiting from their activity. With that in mind one must remember that the people this bill is dealing with are not just those wearing leather jackets. They are also the white collar criminals that I have just spoken about. 
It is interesting that this bill is called the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill but gangs are not actually defined in this bill. It is only organised crime that is defined in this bill. There was a lot of conversation and discussion about that and the rationale for defining only organised crime is that organised crime through its definition incorporates and encompasses gangs. So in some ways it is kind of misleading to put the word “Gangs” in the title because gangs and organised crime are the same thing. But I guess this Government likes to sensationalise things and draw on an emotive response from the public. That is obviously the rationale for putting in that word. 
The bill defines the offence of taking part in organised crime in a new section 98A(1) which is to be substituted into the Crimes Act by clause 4(1) of the bill. The new section 98A(1) states: “Every person who commits an offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years who participates in an organised criminal group—(a) knowing that 3 or more people share any 1 or more of the objectives (the particular objective or particular objectives) described in paragraphs (a) to (d) of subsection (2) … (b) either knowing that his or her conduct contributes or being reckless as to whether his or her conduct may contribute to the occurrence of any criminal activity; and (c) either knowing that the criminal activity contributes or being reckless as to whether the criminal activity may contribute to achieving the particular objective or particular objectives of the organised criminal group.” Labour is committed to effective measures that provide the police and the courts with the tools necessary to hold these offenders to account and that is why we support this bill. 
There is a slight contradiction in some of the actions of the Government given that we are pushing this bill through because recently we have heard that the Minister of Corrections and Minister of Police Judith Collins has cut $21 million from the corrections budget—or was it the police budget or it may be a combination of both budgets. This bill will not succeed in cutting back on crime altogether. A combination of things need to happen. The Government needs to make changes across the board. It is difficult to comprehend how this will be effective when on one hand the Government implements this bill but on the other hand it takes away important resources from departments that need them. 
I have an example that I saw in the  
Taranaki Daily News  
the other day. Jonathan Young our member from New Plymouth will be interested in hearing this. It was a newspaper article discussing the cuts that have been made with regard to police vehicles and how that will affect the police in that area. I think it is important that we consider that in light of the bill and in light of everything that is happening in law and order at the moment. In New Plymouth the police have had four vehicles trimmed from their fleet of 44 and four vehicles have also been lost from the rural district of Taranaki. The New Zealand Police Association has warned that the move could affect secondary police work such as the execution of warrants and follow-up inquiries. Police Association president Greg O’Connor is reported to have said that if the Government are going to do that then “be prepared for a reduction in services”. 
On one hand we have a bill being put through that we support wholeheartedly—the Gangs and Organised Crime Bill—but on the other hand we have cuts cuts and very serious cuts in resources in relation to our police stations and cars. The cuts are being made not just in the number of cars. Clayton Cosgrove was talking about this matter earlier. We also have cuts to firearms training for the police. We will have police officers showing up to scenes where they will be required to use a firearm but they will not be able to do that because they do not have the training in order to be able to do it properly. I thought about that. I was saying to Mr Cosgrove the other day that with those cuts to training with regard to firearms and to police vehicle numbers we will have some police officer who does not have firearms training showing up at the scene of a crime. He will have to drive all the way out to the wop-wops to pick up another police officer who does not have a police car but who does have a firearms licence and has had that training and drag him back to the crime scene. I am sure that members opposite can see how that could create major difficulties with regard to being able to respond to a crime that is taking place. 
I will refer to some of the cuts that are happening in light of this bill which is incredibly similar to one that came before the select committee when Labour was in Government. I will refer back to Labour’s record and to what we have done in response to gangs and to crime in general. In 2007 the police made 6134 arrests of persons with identified gang connections and brought over 26000 charges against them. I think that is a pretty good record. Labour was increasing prison sentence lengths for belonging to a criminal gang and it was improving police surveillance powers over gangs through the Organised Crime (Penalties and Sentencing) Bill which is awaiting its second reading. That bill has been picked up by the National Government. Two of the major amendments in this bill are practically identical to the amendments that we were proposing in the Organised Crime (Penalties and Sentencing) Bill which is currently on the Order Paper awaiting its second reading. They are an increase in the penalty for offending under section 98A of the Crimes Act and the new aggravating factors under the Sentencing Act 2002. While Labour was in power the police announced that the Organised and Financial Crime Agency of New Zealand would receive 35 more positions bringing its total to 58 from the 1250 additional police staff added during the last parliamentary term. The police now have 234 dedicated staff in organised crime units made up of 40 squads around New Zealand. Labour introduced the Search and Surveillance Bill to allow for more explicit powers for reporting agencies.