Douglas Roger: Urgent Debates — Heather Roy—Ministerial Resignation 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Douglas Roger: Urgent Debates — Heather Roy—Ministerial Resignation 
[Sitting date: 18 August 2010. Volume:665;Page:13227. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT) 
: 
 The fact is that within the ACT Party caucus we have a democratic process in terms of electing our leaders and deputy leaders. 
Hon Member 
: Unlike Labour. 
Hon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS 
: I will get to Labour in a moment. This week we had a vote of 3 to 2 to have a change of deputy leader. This vote was like every other vote that I have seen within Labour or anywhere else. 






 Heather as a result of that vote is somewhat bruised but I have seen a lot of people who have been replaced bruised in that way. I have talked to Heather today and I know that she accepts the result. She is looking forward to coming back to Parliament and sitting on the Education and Science Committee; she will be taking my place I might add. She wants also to look after the health vote which I am responsible for and I think we have been talking about her taking over her old bill the Education (Freedom of Association) Amendment Bill. In other words she is ready to get on with the job. Naturally she is hurt about what has occurred; one would not be human otherwise. 
Unlike the Labour Party the ACT Party has a democratic process. The Labour Party used to have a democratic process in the 1970s and 1980s and I can remember a number of votes then. Trevor Mallard mentioned a vote for the deputy leadership between Bob Tizard and David Lange. At that time it was a democratic process. When Cabinet was elected there was always a democratic vote. Generally speaking we would see 13 14 or 15 members get through on the first ballot and then we would see up to another 20 ballots before we finally arrived at 20 votes or 20 people in Cabinet. 
But of course that changed recently. The Labour Party does not have a democratic process any more. Helen Clark changed all that. She was for a democratic process if she got in in the 1980s but was not so happy when she did not. She had an arrangement whereby she would sit down with Michael Cullen and they would prepare a list of 20 members. They would go and touch those 20 members on the shoulder and say that they had decided that they should be in Cabinet but they could be in Cabinet only if they were prepared to vote for the other 19 members whom they had decided on. We had this situation under Helen whereby she tapped 18 members on the shoulder and said they were in Cabinet but only if they voted for the other 17. That was not necessarily a majority. Then they selected six or seven members who would be Associate Ministers and they did the same job on them. They said they were sorry they did not get into Cabinet and that they were not on the list to get into Cabinet but they would be pleased to know they were Associate Ministers. But they could be an Associate Minister only if they voted for the 20 members in Cabinet. That is the democratic process of the new Labour Party. 
Hon Member 
: What about the transparency process of the ACT Party? 
Hon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS 
: There is no transparency whatsoever in the Labour Party. I think the only person who stood up— 
Sue Moroney 
: Tell the story. Tell us what happened in caucus yesterday. 
Hon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS 
: Oh I am wrong am I? I do not think so. That is the democracy that now goes on within the Labour Party.