Brown Peter: Minimum Wage (Abolition of Age Discrimination)Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Brown Peter: Minimum Wage (Abolition of Age Discrimination)Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:640;Page:10714] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 Well I have to say listening to that contribution that the member clearly cares. Clearly he is concerned but he is not concerned enough to go to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and listen to submissions and he is not concerned enough to take a genuine interest when the public of New Zealand came before a committee of MPs to outline their case. 
But I have to say to the member that he made another good point which I want to concur with. The film  
Amazing Grace 
 is an absolutely excellent movie. I say for those who have not seen it that it is well worth seeing. It is largely the story of an English MP who has genuine concerns about people; he does not bad-mouth people and he finally gets listened so. So I say to this House that if members can think of an English MP who basically does not bad-mouth people and thinks about genuine concerns he or she is well worth listening to. I recommend that members take the member’s advice. 
 We gave some serious consideration to Sue Bradford’s original bill. We listened to the people who made submissions to the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee very honestly and very openly and they made some very good points. Nevertheless the Government made a move—and I think it is a very good move—to introduce a new entrants rate and New Zealand First will be supporting this amended bill as it has come back to the House. 
Let me outline some of the concerns put to the select committee by a number of employers—small employers in particular. They said that they take on young people to give them their first chance. One lady in particular impressed me with her submission. She told us about the difficulties she has faced with some young people. They do not turn up and they do not take the business to heart; they have all the skills they know what to do and they adapt themselves but they consider going to work as secondary to having a good time. Nevertheless this lady has persevered by employing young people. I thought she had a very good point. She made it clear that the only advantage if that is the appropriate word—I do not think she used the word “advantage” but I will—that the only difference between a younger person and an older person in terms of cost is the youth minimum wage rate. She said that if she is compelled to pay what she called the adult minimum wage then she would employ older people. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: That’s right. 
PETER BROWN 
: Wayne Mapp was on the select committee at the time and he has just acknowledged agreement. So that is a genuine concern. New Zealand is made up very largely of small businesses. 
The second thing that concerns us—particularly my colleague Brian Donnelly who is sitting alongside me now—is the incentive that paying the minimum wage will give young people to sacrifice their education. If I could give a young person three pieces of advice in one word it would be “education education education”. If young people think they can leave school at 16 years work in the workforce and advance themselves without being fully educated then they are fooling themselves. If we abolish the youth minimum wage and put those young people straight on to the minimum wage we will give a number of them the incentive to leave school and go into the workforce then and there. New Zealand First is not prepared to chance that on a one-off basis. 
It might not only be young people who give themselves the push to join the workforce; it could well be their parents. A parent may say: “Well you can now earn as much as your father. Go out there and earn it.”. So the incentive to join the workforce could first come from the individual youngster or second from his or her parents. I do not normally tell people about my own growing up. I have to say that it was quite a long while ago when I was— 
Rodney Hide 
: Which century was it in? 
PETER BROWN 
: I can tell Mr Hide that believe it or not it was last century. My father wanted me to leave school at 15 I think it was in those days. 
Rodney Hide 
: Did you know Charles Dickens? 
PETER BROWN 
: Charles Dickens was a personal friend of mine. I knew him well at school. I read many of the books he wrote. 
My father was very keen for me to join the workforce at 15 but my mother knew my desire to become a merchant navy officer. For some peculiar reason I had wanted to do that from when I was a very very young guy and I had to get certain school qualifications. She knew that if I left school at 15 I would never get there. In our household it was she who compelled my father. She said: “Look if Peter wants to stay at school and do what he wants to do in life we’re going to support him.” It was a little bit more toey than that but the point I am trying to make is that at times parents do encourage their kids to leave school too early and this would be another incentive to do just that. 
Rodney Hide 
: It was 200 years ago though. 
PETER BROWN 
: The other point I want to make—and I know that Mr Hide will not overlook it—is that as a result of New Zealand First being in this House the minimum wage is going up to $12 an hour by the end of this term. That would not have occurred but for the political party that I stand here representing right now. It was part of our confidence and supply agreement with the Government. The Government put a little rider on the end—“subject to economic conditions” or something like that—but we will get to $12 an hour which means that the youth minimum wage will become $9.60. Had we not reached that agreement with the Government one could expect that at the end of this term the minimum wage would be about the $10 mark which would mean a youth minimum wage of $8. So youngsters will get an increase of something in the vicinity of $1.60 that they would not have got but for the political intrusion by New Zealand First. We ensured that the minimum wage will go up and as a result the youth minimum wage will go up. This new entrants rate is a step in the right direction. It may not be the be-all and end-all but it is a good point for youngsters to start their working career from. 
As to the 200 hours we recognise that if a person is working full time it will take a matter of weeks but if he or she is working part time it could take a good deal longer. 
Hone Harawira 
: 5 years. 
PETER BROWN 
: Five years? Two hundred hours would take 5 years? 
Hone Harawira 
: They work in the holidays and when they finish they go back to school. The next time they start all over again. That’s how it works. 
PETER BROWN 
: I would be totally surprised if it takes anybody 5 years to get to the minimum wage. 
Hone Harawira 
: Every time they stop it starts again. 
PETER BROWN 
: I can promise the honourable member that if there is such a case then New Zealand First will be prepared to look at it. 
The point I am making is that it will not take terribly long in anybody’s book to get to the 200 hours. As the 200 hours will be spread across all employers the biggest problem will be keeping records. A guy could work 10 hours a week for company A and then 2 weeks later work 10 hours a week for company B and someone has to keep track of those records. I have a feeling that there will be employers who will say: “I don’t want to be bothered keeping a track of that. We’ll give you the full minimum wage anyway. You’re only 50 hours or 60 hours or 10 hours or whatever short of the 200 hours. We will put you on the minimum wage virtually from whoa to go.” 
I think the Government has got it right. We have had a long discussion in New Zealand First about this bill about the first bill that Sue Bradford appeared with and about the way the Government has doctored it if I might use that language. We think it is fair we think it is a good move and we think that this will work exceedingly well given the opportunity both for employers and for young employees.