Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:623;Page:18584] 
7.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay Of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Is he prepared to change police priorities to divert some staff from lower-priority traffic tasks to improve 111 response times; if not why not? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 That is the responsibility of the Commissioner of Police. He is responsible for the effective allocation of staff resources to meet the strategic and daily priorities of policing. The commissioner has reinforced his expectation that all rostered sworn staff will make themselves available to respond to emergencies when they are on duty. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Has he ever asked the Commissioner of Police whether he has enough resources to provide safe 111 services? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Yes and he has been provided with an extra 18 and there is a review. If the commissioner needs more resources we will make sure that he gets them. 
Ron Mark 
: Does the Minister believe that his priorities are acceptable when a Criminal Investigation Bureau officer writes: “CIB have prided themselves for many years as an elite group of people in the police who investigate serious crime and are thorough in leaving no stone unturned when investigating crime. … How are they expected to continue with this level of service to the communities they serve when they are being pressured to put down their homicide and rape files and go do traffic?”; does he find that acceptable? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: As no name is given to that person the member is quoting he sounds very much like doubting Thomas or his brother. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Has police management raised any concerns about staffing levels at police communications centres at any stage and what were those concerns? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Last year police management said it wanted more prosecutors and more people in its communications centres. We gave it 18 more people in the communications centres and we increased the number of prosecutors. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If everything is fine in the Minister’s portfolio and if he is on top of his job why are we seeing in the newspapers photographs of him appearing with the Prime Minister and commentary regarding his being bullied by Ron Mark; and when did the Prime Minister say that she would make that statement? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I am always happy to be with the Prime Minister and photographed with her. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask him whether he was happy or unhappy—I know he is pretty desolate most of time. But my real point is why such articles are appearing in newspapers—on the front pages at that—and when did the Prime Minister say she would make that statement. He must have known that the Prime Minister was going to make a statement at a press conference. He surely should be required to tell the House what the answer is. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If you thought my question was appropriate then with respect it was a point of order. If you thought that what I asked was appropriate—and you did not rule me out of order then—and if that was his answer then it was a very valid point of order. There are two questions that the Minister has failed to answer. If you know what the answers are please apprise me the House and the whole country of them. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Firstly the Minister has no responsibility for what photographs a newspaper carries; the newspaper is responsible for that. Secondly the Minister is not responsible for the prime ministerial decision to make certain statements; the Prime Minister makes those decisions. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: The Minister could have given that answer in respect of the first question. But on the second question it is not the prime ministerial responsibility I am asking him to acquit; it is his own. I asked him when the Prime Minister had apprised him of her intention to hold such a conference and make such a statement. That is in his knowledge and that makes it his responsibility. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I do not agree. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Countless times in this House Ministers have been asked as to when they first learnt something. That makes it the Minister’s responsibility. Certainly no one in this House surely believes that the Prime Minister went along to that media function intending to make a statement and did not tell the Minister that she was going to do that. I am asking the Minister when he was told—before the meeting or after. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: As far as I was concerned the Minister addressed the question originally. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Well if he did answer the question then please tell me what the date is. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I beg your pardon? 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: If he did address the question then please tell us all what the date was on which the Prime Minister advised him of that? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: My job here is not to answer that sort of question. That is not my job as Speaker. My job is to ensure that questions are properly asked and I allowed the member’s question. My job is to ensure that Ministers address the question and the Minister did. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is not your job to answer the question but it is your job to make sure that the Minister does make some attempt to answer. If it is in his knowledge—and it must be—then surely he should be required to answer. When did the Prime Minister tell him that she intended to make that statement at a press conference? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister is not responsible for newspapers or the Prime Minister. The Minister responded in so far as there was responsibility and I adjudged that he addressed the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not claiming that he is responsible for anything in the newspapers—none of us are. But he is certainly responsible in respect of my question as to when the Prime Minister told him that she was going to make that statement. He is the only one who knows. That is what makes him responsible and I am asking now that he be asked to answer the question. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Apart from the fact that I am now informed that the Prime Minister first made the statement on  
Morning Report  
that morning so there was scarcely anything to be said in Cabinet about it the Minister cannot be responsible for what the Prime Minister said even if she said it to him. He might be responsible for whether he heard it but not for whether she said it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is precisely what I ruled. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This has been a very long and rather interesting exchange. Do you not think it would have been a lot better had you just said to Mr Hawkins that he could expand on the answer and at least tell the House whether he knew that the Prime Minister was going to go to his defence? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well if the member had my job he could have insisted on that. I did not; he has not. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Is it not a fact that the police were actually seeking funding for an additional 60 communications centre staff to relieve pressure on the 111 system as detailed by Mr Greg O’Connor on television; if so why was this funding not forthcoming and who made that decision? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The police always ask for more than they are going to get. That always happens across every portfolio in this Government. The Commissioner of Police was well pleased to get the 18 extra staff. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: When the Commissioner of Police asked for those additional 60 staff did he highlight to the Minister a stream of internal correspondence from within his department expressing concerns about the understaffing; and why did this Minister and this Government decide that 18 staff were better than 60? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: It was not a matter of 18 or 60; they were wanted for other areas as well such as prosecution— 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: No. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The member can say “No.” but they were wanted for the prosecution section and for police driver training. The commissioner was pleased because he got staff for all three areas. 
Ron Mark 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a report to the Minister of Police on 2003 Budget bid initiatives from the Commissioner of Police dated 14 November where on page 4 the commissioner asked for a total of 100 staff to deal with the Auckland response capacity. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table the transcript of the interview on television of Mr Greg O’Connor of the Police Association where he said in respect of this matter that the police applied for 60 staff and ended up with 18 many of whom did not arrive. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that transcript. Is there any objection? There is.