O'Rourke Denis: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
O'Rourke Denis: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:678;Page:1283] 
4. 
DENIS O’ROURKE (NZ First) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Has he received any recent reports or briefings from the Police? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Acting Prime Minister) 
:  
No. 
Denis O’Rourke 
: Did he not receive any briefings or reports on the police investigation into the teacup tape-recording prior to yesterday’s announcement that no charges would be laid? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Any matters relating to the investigation into the unlawful taping related to the Rt Hon John Key’s role as leader of the New Zealand National Party not his role as Prime Minister. Therefore there is no ministerial responsibility on this issue. 
Denis O’Rourke 
: Mr Speaker—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I want to hear Denis O’Rourke’s question. 
Denis O’Rourke 
: Was it just a coincidence then that he happened to be overseas unconcerned when the police announced that no charges would be laid against the cameraman concerned? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: No. 
Denis O’Rourke 
: Is he embarrassed that the findings of the police into the matter do not stack up against his bravado about a police investigation during the election campaign? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I did not catch the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I invite the member to repeat his question please. 
Denis O’Rourke 
: The question was: is the Prime Minister embarrassed that the findings of the police into the matter do not stack up against his bravado about a police investigation during the election campaign? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: There is no ministerial responsibility in this matter. 
Hon David Parker 
: Has he been advised that it is improper for him to say of Mr Ambrose or of any other person accused of wrongdoing—to quote the Prime Minister—“At the end of the day his actions have been deemed unlawful.” when no finding of wrongdoing has been made and Mr Ambrose has no way of defending himself? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: There is no ministerial responsibility in this matter. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: If there is no ministerial responsibility for this question who was the Solicitor-General acting for in the court? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: There is no responsibility for these matters in this House. 
Denis O’Rourke 
: Mr Speaker— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I apologise to the honourable member. A point of order has been called. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would like you to reflect on whether that answer answered the question as to whom the Solicitor-General was acting for—whether it was the leader of the National Party or the Prime Minister. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member’s question was certainly a specific question. It simply asked whom the Solicitor-General was acting for. In terms of the actions of the leader of the National Party at the time of the election campaign that is certainly not a responsibility of the Prime Minister. Subsequent events are perhaps less clear; I am not sure. But the Minister answering on behalf of the Prime Minister did not really address that particular issue: whom the Solicitor-General was acting for. I invite the Hon Gerry Brownlee if he can— 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I take you to the primary question which was in the name of Mr O’Rourke: “Has he received any recent reports or briefings from the Police?” to which the answer was “No.” because that could be very general. Mr O’Rourke then took it specifically to the so-called teapot incident. That is not a matter for ministerial responsibility. Therefore any other question that might flow out of an answer like that would seem to be irrelevant in the circumstances. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: The fact that the Prime Minister said there was no ministerial responsibility for any of this matter effectively is the very point that can be asked about him having made that point and that was exactly what I was doing. The Solicitor-General does not go to court— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member is getting into the substance of the issue now. It is a tricky situation the House finds itself in because there is no doubt that the police investigation was not a responsibility of the Prime Minister. The issues surrounding that were the responsibility of the leader of the National Party not the Prime Minister. We have had this debate in this House many times before so that is quite clear. The difficulty I am in as Speaker is that I cannot second-guess Ministers when they say matters are not their responsibility. That is a difficulty the Speaker has. I can understand why the member is asking the question. The question was a very straightforward clear question. There was no imputation or anything. It was a straightforward clear question. But the Minister replying on behalf of the Prime Minister and saying there is no ministerial responsibility on behalf of the Prime Minister leaves the Speaker in a difficult position because I am not in a position to really judge that. That is why I really have to accept the Minister’s view of that. And I really cannot happily with advice start disagreeing with Ministers over issues of responsibility; unless I have very very good knowledge I am getting into very dangerous territory I think.  
Denis O’Rourke 
: Does the Prime Minister still believe that the tape-recording was a “very serious matter” given the police decision not to lay charges? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: There is no ministerial responsibility for this matter in this House.  
I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think it might help the House for the sake of clarity. Although I am not prepared to answer on behalf of the Prime Minister questions that relate to this matter because it was a role for him outside of his responsibilities as Prime Minister it is worth noting that the leader of the National Party had his own legal representation in this matter not the Attorney-General as alleged by Mr O’Rourke. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member is getting into— 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: Well you put me in that position. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! We are starting to get beyond what points of order allow. I realise that this is a sensitive issue and it is on quite tricky ground. That is why I have been careful not to rule too quickly on matters. But if I remember correctly the Hon Trevor Mallard asked about the Solicitor-General not the Attorney-General. I accept though the point the Minister is making. I fully accept the fact that matters relating to the teapot tape are not matters that are the responsibility of the Prime Minister. That is very clear. The other matter I am less clear on but I totally accept the Minister’s advice on that matter because I have got to be careful not to second-guess Ministers on such matters. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do want to disagree with you on the ruling that you have just made. Although the original incident was certainly as leader of the National Party since that time—including as recently as yesterday—the Prime Minister has while being part of a trip to Korea commented and been quoted as Prime Minister on this incident. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member’s point of order is absolutely correct as I understand the situation and the Prime Minister can be questioned on those matters.  
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: This is no different from some of the hoops that a previous Prime Minister was put through on two occasions when Ministers outside of her immediate Cabinet were engaged in various issues that took them into a role as leader of their parties and she responded outside of this House as leader of the party although at all times she was Prime Minister. That is how it works. There is nothing clever in what Mr Mallard— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I was happy to listen to the honourable Minister until that point. He should not comment. The point the Hon Trevor Mallard was making was that he accepts that the actions of the Rt Hon John Key as leader of the National Party about the teapot tape and any referral to the police were not the responsibility of the Prime Minister. However the Hon Trevor Mallard has made a point that the Prime Minister has released under the Prime Minister’s name comment on the matter in public by way of public statement. As to the Prime Minister’s comments in respect of those comments or statements the Prime Minister can be questioned on those statements he has made because he put those statements out under the name of the Prime Minister and he can be questioned on those matters that he has commented on as Prime Minister not as leader of the National Party. That is very clear. 
Denis O’Rourke 
: Has the Prime Minister sought or received any information on how many elderly New Zealand First supporters died during the course of the police investigation? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That is so far from the primary question as to be ruled out. Supplementary question the Hon David Parker. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I want to hear the Hon David Parker’s question. 
Hon David Parker 
: Does he believe that it was proper for him as Prime Minister yesterday to say in respect of Mr Ambrose: “At the end of the day his actions have been deemed unlawful.” when no such finding of wrongdoing has been made and Mr Ambrose has no way of defending himself? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: That is an interesting suggestion. Perhaps I should say that I cannot answer that on behalf of the Prime Minister; I have not seen those statements.