10. Question No. 10—Social DevelopmentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 10—Social Development10. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): Yes in the context in which they were given.Hon Louise Upston: Does she stand by her statement in the House last Thursday that the actual unemployment rate overall is 9.4 percent which is exactly the same as what it was this time last year."?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Can I reiterate that with the last numbers that came out 9.4 percent of working-age New Zealanders were receiving a main benefit. That is exactly the same proportion as this time last year.Hon Louise Upston: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked quite a specific question about the unemployment rate that she quoted in this House last Thursday.SPEAKER: My understanding is in my memory—and I'm willing to be corrected—that the member referred to benefits in her answer then as she did now. We're digging back a week but I'm pretty sure that's what she said at the time.Hon Louise Upston: Why did she not correct her answer that was incorrect in this House last Thursday which is what she's meant to do as soon as she becomes aware of it?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: To my knowledge I referred to the 9.4 percent of working-age New Zealanders receiving a main benefit and that is the same proportion as last year.Hon Louise Upston: Does she agree with Statistics New Zealand who released the unemployment figure of 4.5 percent rather than the 9.4 percent that she quoted in this House in the question last week as announced on 1 August—that the unemployment rate is 4.5 percent?SPEAKER: Order! I think we've just had an explanation. We've just had a comment from the Minister that—although it wasn't as part of personal explanation I think it was a reiteration. OK well I'll ask the member to ask the question again but it is a bit of a problem where a Minister says very clearly in this House that they used one set of figures and another member says repeatedly that they used another set of figures. I'm warning both the former Minister and the current Minister that one of them is running into trouble.Hon Louise Upston: Does she agree with Statistics New Zealand who released the unemployment figure as 4.5 percent on 1 August as opposed to her quote in the House last week that the unemployment rate was 9.4 percent?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Last week when I spoke in the House I was referring to the 9.4 percent of working-age New Zealanders receiving a main benefit. If there were any semantic mix-ups then I do apologise but I was not referring to the 4.5; I was referring to the 9.4 percent of working-age New Zealanders receiving a main benefit.Hon Louise Upston: Is the 9000 extra people on a jobseeker benefit higher or lower as a percentage of the population than a year ago?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The most recent stats that came out showed that 9.4 percent of working-age New Zealanders are receiving a main benefit which is exactly the same as last year. With regards to the actual numbers rather than the proportion there has been an increase in population—Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker you suggested that your recollection may not be entirely on the mark given that it was last week when this was raised. I've checked now with our people. The question that was asked was answered last week: that the unemployment rate is 9—whatever it is—percent. Now the question was: did the Minister today stand by that—and we got this other answer about all benefits. I think it's pretty unreasonable to have then had a bit of a question from you to the person asking the question and requiring them to base their questions on the new answer from the Minister.SPEAKER: I'm sure all of us are going to go back and review that situation pretty carefully. I can remember the Minister last week using the expression "proportion of the working-age population on benefits" and using the 9.4 percent around that. If she responded to a question about the unemployment rate and used that figure that is—I mean it's not the best answer but it's not incorrect as long as she caveated it in that particular way. But I'm sure that all of us who are interested in these things will go back and have a look at what the Minister actually said. If she made an error she will be correcting and if Louise Upston has made an error she will be.Hon Louise Upston: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The last question that I asked was specific about job seeker benefit. I asked a simple question—if it was higher or lower as a percentage of the population as a year ago—and I didn't get an answer to that. SPEAKER: And the member said it was 9.4 percent both times. Surely that's an answer. I mean you know you couldn't get a clearer answer than that and it's the same—could you? Hon Grant Robertson: You don't ask questions. SPEAKER: No I don't ask questions—you're quite right. We got into trouble with the wrong people asking the questions last week."