Delahunty Catherine: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeDelahunty Catherine: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 21 October 2015. Volume:709;Page:7419. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]3.CATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) to the Prime Minister: Does he believe his meeting with Hon Malcolm Turnbull resulted in positive human rights outcomes?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Not specifically because human rights were not specifically discussed during my meeting with Mr Turnbull. However as the member is aware we did have a lengthy direct conversation about the deportation of New Zealanders and the holding of New Zealanders in Australian detention centres. I am pleased that Mr Turnbull pledged to put more resources into processing appeals in order to accelerate them. This will help to clear the backlog of people in the pipeline for deportation. He announced also other steps to improve the situation for New Zealand.Catherine Delahunty: Did he specifically ask Malcom Turnbull to bring New Zealand citizens being detained offshore back on to the mainland of Australia?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I raised the issue of detention centres and said that I did not think it was appropriate that New Zealanders were sent there. What I got was an assurance from Mr Turnbull that they would be upping significantly the resources so that New Zealanders will not have to go to detention centres because they will be dealt with more quickly. But as Mr Turnbull pointed out they are all free to come home to New Zealand and have their applications dealt with here.Catherine Delahunty: Supplementary question. Did he—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have not yet called the member. Supplementary question—[Interruption] Order! Supplementary question—Catherine Delahunty.Catherine Delahunty: Did he specifically seek an assurance from Malcom Turnbull that no more New Zealand citizens will be sent to offshore detention centres should they choose to remain in Australia while awaiting their deportation appeals?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I think that is the point. If they choose to wait there they are free to do that. I cannot make them come home but what the law does say is that they are quite free to come home to New Zealand and have their applications processed here.Catherine Delahunty: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a straight question asking whether he specifically sought an assurance.Mr SPEAKER: Can I just ask the member to look at Speaker’s ruling 187(4). It will inform the member that you cannot specifically demand a yes or no answer which is clearly what the member wanted. The question was addressed.Catherine Delahunty: Did he specifically seek an assurance from Malcolm Turnbull that New Zealand citizens who would have been entitled to legal aid in Australia will continue to get access to that legal aid if they choose to come back to New Zealand while awaiting their deportation appeals?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: There was no discussion about legal aid.Catherine Delahunty: Does he support Australia’s bid for a seat on the United Nations Human Rights Council?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: You would need to direct that question to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.Catherine Delahunty: Why as Prime Minister will he not rule out supporting Australia’s bid to the United Nations Human Rights Council given that Australia has been cited for 143 violations of the very body that it is seeking election to?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: In the first instance that is a matter for the Minister of Foreign Affairs to provide advice to me and to Cabinet.Catherine Delahunty: Does he believe Australia’s treatment of detainees—New Zealanders and others—and the forced deportations that split families up should preclude it from a seat on the United Nations Human Rights Council?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: All I can say is and it is not my job to speak for Malcolm Turnbull the Australians do not believe that there are human right abuses taking place in their detention centres and if there are any that New Zealanders—Catherine Delahunty: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Sit down. I have not finished. Sit down.Mr SPEAKER: Order! No Prime Minister any member has the right to raise a point of order.Catherine Delahunty: He is not answering the question. I did not ask what Malcolm Turnbull said—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! I am trying to listen to the answer that the Prime Minister is giving. If at the end of the answer the member feels that the question has not been addressed the question can be raised with me. I will then make a judgment.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: That is exactly my point. It is not for me to speak for the Prime Minister of Australia but I can tell you that the position of the Australian Government is that there are no human rights issues taking place in their detention centres. But as I have said publicly and in this House before if New Zealanders feel they have any concerns they are free to take those up with the Foreign Affairs consular staff and we will have them investigated.Catherine Delahunty: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a specific question: does he believe Australia’s treatment of detainees—not what does he think—Mr SPEAKER: Order! On this occasion I will invite the member to repeat the question but can I just ask then that the member does not interrupt the answer because it is very hard for me to then judge whether the answer addresses the question. We will have the supplementary question again.Catherine Delahunty: Does he believe Australia’s treatment of detainees—New Zealanders and others—and the forced deportations that split families up should preclude it from a seat on the United Nations Human Rights Council?Hon Gerry Brownlee: That’s a different question.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I say to the Hon Gerry Brownlee that the question is in order. I do not think it is substantially different. I invite the Prime Minister to answer it.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I am not in a position to judge the treatment by the Australian Government in relation to other people detained for deportation. When it comes to New Zealanders the position is quite clear: if a New Zealander feels there is a breach they should raise it with Foreign Affairs.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wanted to wait until the end of that question exchange because I did not want to interrupt the flow of the questioning. The point that I want to raise with you is that when ruling on one of the points of order from Catherine Delahunty you indicated that you were waiting until the end of the Prime Minister’s answer to see whether he addressed the question. The point that I want you to give some further consideration to perhaps is that Ministers need in their answers to confine themselves to the matter that they are being questioned on. The implication of the ruling you made is that Ministers can stand up and say what they like and that providing they eventually get to answering the questionat some point that gives them carte blanche to say whatever they like. There should be a principle that they have to restrict themselves at least to the subject area that they are being questioned on.Mr SPEAKER: I do not need assistance from members on this occasion. I have got to judge it in relationship to the question that is being asked. When I consider the question “Does the Prime Minister believe the Australians’ treatment of detainees etc.” it is a question of whether there is a responsibility of the Prime Minister in that regard in the first place. I then required some time to listen to the answer because I do not expect it is an easy one for the Prime Minister to answer when he is commenting on another country’s treatment of detainees. So the judgment I will make will depend very much on the question that is asked. I appreciate that the member is raising a point generally but I need to judge the length of an answer according to the complexity of the question—I guess that is the way I should put it.