Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 17 July 2012. Volume:681;Page:3540. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
9. 
JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister for Social Development 
: Does she stand by her statements that “the billion dollars is not just about the young people. Those savings are also coming from those on other benefits … we certainly have got projections that we believe we will be making savings over the next four years”? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development) 
: 
 Yes. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: How much will her first round of welfare reform cost over 4 years as per the Budget documents? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: At this stage we are projecting $287 million in costs over 4 years for bill No. 1 on the youth and the changes to the DPB. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: How much will her first round of welfare reforms save over 4 years and what evidence is there to support these projected savings? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: There have been a number of forecasts that have been done. The most recent ones are from Treasury which has taken a very conservative approach and also is not looking at behavioural changes which are quite significant we believe. So Treasury at the moment is projecting $135 million. I actually do not believe that is true. I think it will be a bit more than that but Treasury is taking a very conservative approach. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Does she concede that her welfare reforms will cost more than they will save based on Treasury’s projections? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: No we have always said that bill No. 2 is the one that has the most substantial savings and the biggest changes. The member will see it coming along later this year. It is going to be a lot of work that is actually going to see the significant changes in savings coming through. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Does she have any capacity to fund phase two of her welfare reforms given that Budget documents show that the Ministry for Social Development struggled to fill a $700 million budget shortfall this year and stated that “the estimated costs of phase two are [even] more uncertain than phase one.”? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I am delighted that the member is waking up to the fact that these are tough times. Yes the department has struggled to find $700 million in projected costs from within the department but we did—but we did—and that has been hard work. We will find the savings that are needed for bill No. 2 because we fundamentally believe that they will make a difference for New Zealanders and their lives and their outcomes. That is what we are working towards. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You have been coaching members in this House to attempt to ask straight questions and the deal has always been that the initial parts of the answer at least would also be straight. I ask you to reflect on what happened when you look at this question time later on as to whether that sort of approach from that Minister should be allowed. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I listened very carefully and the first three supplementary questions were very straight and very directly answered. The fourth supplementary question implied a criticism—unless I misheard it implied a criticism—and the Minister’s response was not totally out of order. I accept that it was on the margins. But there has to be a bit of give and take during question time. Earlier on in question time—if the member reflects back—the Opposition was making a lot of noise and making a lot of interjections that were causing disruption. I cannot be too hard on one side of the House and not hard on the other side of the House and I believe on balance that that question was reasonably answered. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My memory was that the question was essentially whether she has the capacity to fund or how does she propose to fund given that the document showed that her ministry struggled to find $700 million. I think that is a straight question not one which implies a criticism of the Minister. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will undertake to look at it because that was not my recollection of the exact wording. I will undertake to look at it.