Tisch Lindsay: Minimum Wage Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Minimum Wage Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:608;Page:5146] 
LINDSAY TISCH (NZ National—Piako) 
: 
 This is an interesting commencement date. When we read the bill we see that it was to have come into effect on 30 November 2001. The points that have been made this evening have shown that the Government is anti-business. It is anti-investment and it has no idea of what it is to run a business. In fact 85 percent of all businesses in New Zealand are small businesses employing less than five people. 
When an employer takes somebody on at the end of the day there has to be a reward. I raise a point of order Mr Chairman. A member on the Government side of the Chamber is using a cellphone. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The use of cellphones in the Chamber is not permitted. I have been assured that the cellphone is not being used in the Chamber. The word of all members here is accepted unreservedly; their word is their bond. 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. The person whom you are referring to is not the person I was referring to. The person— 
Jill Pettis 
: Stop wasting time! 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: The member says that we are wasting time. It is a very important precedent that members do not use cellphones in the Chamber. I have brought that to the attention of the Chairman. If the member would like to stand and apologise then I will accept that. It is not me who is wasting time; it is the member who has been using the cellphone who is wasting time. I have asked for a ruling and have suggested that an easy way out is for the member who was on the cellphone— 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: How about naming the member? It will make things a lot easier for everyone. 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: It was Steve Chadwick who is sitting in the front row. If she would like to stand and apologise for using the cellphone we can then get on with this very important bill. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: If the member used a cellphone in the Chamber that is unacceptable. The member will stand withdraw and apologise if that was the case. 
Steve Chadwick 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: The point I was making was that if I am prepared to employ somebody—and it will cost me money to employ that person—then there has to be a return. I would expect that the return that I will get from that person’s contribution to my business is that he or she has to pay his or her way. That is just the basis of employing people. This Government expects that every time I want to employ people they will think I will exploit them. I have never paid minimum wages to the staff whom I have employed over the years. I have always paid them more than the minimum because they have been worth more than that. 
At the moment people will take staff on and give them a go but they expect a return on that investment—that is if they are employing people for whatever the figure is per hour those people will need to contribute. Employers are prepared to put in the time and the training. However under this bill that initiative will be taken away. There are young people who are prepared to go and knock on doors and to ask employers for a job. Employers have said they are prepared to give them a go because they have shown some initiative. This bill states that people cannot do that because if they do they will be exploited. But if employers want to have people working for them and to get the best return from them they will look after their staff. 
This bill takes that away. The tenure of this bill simply states to young people who are out there looking for a job that if they go when there is no protection for them through minimum wages when employers have a training budget and put effort in and to spend time with them— 
Jill Pettis 
: This member hasn’t mentioned the commencement date once. 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: I mentioned the commencement date right at the beginning of my speech. If the member did not interrupt so often she would actually hear what I was saying. The member does not understand the basis of business. That is the trouble with this Government: it has no idea what makes the world go round. Government members have never been in business themselves they have never invested a dollar and they have no idea— 
Jill Pettis 
: That’s totally incorrect. 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: That member has never employed anyone. Government members have absolutely no idea of the costs—of what is involved in employing staff. [ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member. I refer members on my right to Speakers’ ruling 51/5. If those members want to make a speech they can take the call next time and do so. 
LINDSAY TISCH 
: I would appreciate them taking a call. I would like the Minister to take a call as well. It seems to me that every time people want to go for a job they need protection because otherwise the view of this Government and its members is that every time people go for a job they will be exploited. That is what the bill states. The Government does not allow for the initiative of young people seeking to have a go. 
That is why it is so very important that the commencement date as the Hon Tony Ryall has mentioned should be after the next election. That will allow those trainees who are out there now to appreciate and be able to show exactly what is involved in obtaining a job and to show how the current system works. What is happening today is that employers are not prepared to take anybody on because it will become too difficult. We have the Holidays Act the 4 weeks’ holiday amendment bill paid parental leave and the Resource Management Act. People will say they are not prepared to take on a young person. They will ask why they should carry all the risk all the time. Employers will contract work out. There is huge demand out there now and people are saying they will not give young people a chance by taking them on. Employers are saying they are not prepared to train young people because once they have taken them on they will have to meet these compliance costs.