McAnulty Kieran; Brown SimeonHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour): So there we have it right off the bat. The Government is treating the consideration of the establishment of Māori wards differently to all other wards—probably the most upfront thing the Minister has said in this House and we got it right from the get-go which I appreciate and thank him for. If we actually get to the nub of the issue now what the Minister is asking us to consider tonight is a bill that brings in different provisions for the establishment of Māori wards than any other wards under local government—urban rural whatever. Whatever that community feels would best serve them a local council can make that decision. If a local council wants to establish Māori wards the Minister is asking us to vote for a bill that would make that process harder. My next question is: does the Minister know what institutional racism is?Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government): The member Kieran McAnulty's comments in relation to my last question highlight I think a difference in terms of where the Opposition's position on this is and where the Government's position on this issue is. In relation to rural wards or urban wards where those wards exist everybody who lives within those wards regardless of whether they're on the Māori roll or the general roll get to vote for the person that they choose to represent them as a mayor or a councillor. In relation to the position that this Government is taking we're simply putting the provisions back to what they were three years ago. This is not going back to 30 years ago or 40 years ago; this is simply putting it back to what it was three years ago which is saying that if a council wishes to make a change and to have a Māori ward—which means that voters are split into whether or not they are on the general roll or the Māori roll—they can put that forward the public can then petition the council for a referendum and then voters in that community are able to have their say and make a decision based on whether or not they would like to. And if the public in that community decides that yes they would like that—as some councils have—they will have the opportunity to have a Māori ward. If they vote no there won't be. The difference is that it divides the people in that community based on which roll they're on. An urban ward or a rural ward does not divide the people in those wards based on what roll they're on.Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour): Thank you very much Madam Chair. I appreciate the response from the Minister but it was unnecessary because we know what the motivations of the Government are. We know that they are wanting regardless of when the status quo as it is currently was brought in—it was changed to bring it in line with the establishment of any other wards. And the cute argument about Well some people are on different rolls; therefore we want everyone on the same roll" doesn't wash because we're talking about the establishment of a ward the recognition of a decision of a council.I do note that the Minister didn't answer my last question so I will read out a definition of institutional racism. It is defined as "policies and practices that exist throughout a whole society or organisation that result in and support a continued unfair advantage to some people and unfair or harmful treatment of others based on race". Now I think the committee should reflect on that in the few moments that we have before the dinner break because I am very interested to hear the Minister's view as to how what he is proposing in this bill that would treat Māori differently to everybody else in the country does not fit the definition that I've just read out. And I want the Minister to stand up—he may wait until after the dinner break. By golly I'll give him an hour and a half to think about it if he wants; I don't care. But I think he owes the country and I think he owes the House an explanation. Why is he asking us to treat people differently because of race? Why should Māori go through a harder process than everybody else?And it's interesting isn't it Madam Chair that we have just had a pretty significant moment in this House to reflect on the report that sits on that Table. Riddled and weaved throughout that report are examples of institutional racism and for a brief moment this House stood as one and said "Never again." And in the cruellest of cruel ironies here we are the very first item immediately after on the Order Paper and the Minister is asking us to vote for a bill that treats Māori people differently creates an unfair advantage for non-Māori and creates a pathway for communities that have already made their decisions more difficult and more likely to be reversed.Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government): The member Kieran McAnulty made a wrong assertion in terms of the comments he made earlier in relation to how the provisions passed by the previous Government treated the Māori wards the same as any other. The reality was that they took away the ability when councils were putting forward their representation reviews for the public to be able to go to the Local Government Commission and be able to petition or have their concerns raised around that even through the Local Government Commission. When councils are establishing a rural ward people can lodge a complaint or lodge a submission to the Local Government Commission. Even that was taken away. So there was no fair treatment under their provisions. What we are doing is we're simply putting it back to what it was before. Where a council is establishing a rural ward or where they're establishing a Māori ward there are provisions and abilities for the public to have their say. That is a fair principle. It is a principle that we stand on. And it's a principle that I will argue throughout this debate. Thank you."