Bayly AndrewANDREW BAYLY (National—Hunua): Thank you Madam Chair. This is obviously a—David Seymour: I raise a point of order Madam Chair. I think it is helpful to have this discussion as we adapt to new rules. I was under the impression that if a member yielded to a Minister in this discussion then that member would also receive the next call. In fact I think it was either yourself or the Hon Anne Tolley who said as much at the beginning of this committee stage last night.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): In order to be given the call you have to seek a call.ANDREW BAYLY: —very testy debate—and quite rightly so in my view given the significance of this legislation. I just want to return to the question that my colleague the Hon Dr Smith just raised. I don't actually believe that you have answered the question Minister Nash because the allegations around the police checking the terrorist Mr Tarrant's application the allegations around the appropriateness of those checks has been up for a debate and swirling around the public obviously since 19 March which is what the Minister just referred to.If you did know about it on 19 March my first question to you Minister is: given that that is over a year and these allegations have been in the public domain for all that time what have you done about it? Have you actually—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): Sorry could you please not bring the Chair into the debate Mr Bayly.ANDREW BAYLY: OK. Has the Minister in fact undertaken any investigation as to what actually occurred so that we could be definitive on it? If that is the case it would be excellent to take the opportunity today to talk about whether in fact the process did break down and Mr Tarrant actually ended up getting a licence when he ought not to because that is very unclear and having things in the media is very very untidy and inappropriate given this debate today.The other thing that I want to talk about: last night when you introduced this bill you said and you made this claim that this bill would keep New Zealanders safe and We're going to keep guns from the hands of bad people." You asked why we weren't supporting this bill. Well it's pretty clear Minister: the current Act that's in place is a result of delays in terms of publicising the prices that would be paid to people who return their weapons and just the whole chaotic process that happened. You know that only 56000 automatic weapons have been handed back in; there is an estimated 250000 out in the market right now swirling around all across New Zealand. That is an incredible amount. You've only picked up 20 percent of all the estimated number of items. I see you shaking your head. We do know that every automatic weapon that had to come into this country had to be imported through an import licence and therefore there are records that show—even if it's within 10000 or 20000—that there are probably 250000 of these automatic rifles in circulation. You have as a result of this past bill—the Minister's reactions have only captured 56000 of it. It is a miniscule amount.One of the principal reasons why we have an issue with this bill is that it is unsuccessful. It has been unsuccessful. This bill won't help much more because what this bill does is it targets farmers it targets sports clubs it targets those who want to do competitive shooting and it targets people who just want to own a rifle and operate appropriately—and also part of that is gun collectors. The whole intent of this bill is about those who will act lawfully who do act lawfully; what it hasn't dealt with is the issue around gangs and those who can get these types of arms and use them for bad circumstances. That is the reason why we don't like it.The last thing that I want to just pick up on in this short contribution is this somehow glorious wave of people from New Zealand First coming in and saying that they're going to solve it. My question to you Mr Mark: where were you in the last bill when we were trying to change things around sporting arrangements? In fact if you had been involved in the last Finance and Expenditure Committee which I haven't seen you in Mr Mark—I've never seen you at a meeting Mr Mark. Somehow it's "Ronnie-come-lately" trying to say that "We're going to save it." Why didn't you turn up to the select committee? In the select committee we had actually talked about an independent group to monitor firearms licences. If you want to try and say it's your idea you should have turned up to the select committee Mr Mark. It's not your—[Time expired]"