Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Mr Speaker—very good to have you back in the Chair. I suppose the number one sort of issue that has arisen by this bill is just a question of timing because I don't think there's anybody who thinks this isn't a nice idea for New Zealanders to have access to more sick leave. Isn't that nice? I think everybody would agree that it would be nice if New Zealanders could have access to higher incomes and higher minimum wages. The whole purpose of good Government policy is to increase wages and to make it easier for New Zealanders to live their lives and look after themselves when they're sick and when their family are sick. So it's a nice thing to have.The question is: is this the moment in time when it makes sense to extend those rights and expectations of workers and burdens on employers? I think most people making a rational assessment of where we are as a country right now would have to say well hang on maybe not. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! That's not that much decorum Mr Hipkins.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Thank you Mr Speaker. So what we're facing right now is that the 500000 small businesses in this country are facing very very difficult times particularly as a reflection of COVID when they are struggling to keep their businesses afloat and employ New Zealanders. The economy is shrinking. This year it has fallen in economic growth at the fastest level the biggest drop in the size of our economy in recent history—in fact in any history that you can go back to. So we're under incredible economic pressure. Now the Government has responded to this by borrowing a billion dollars a week and splurging money out across the economy. Now that's fine. You know that may have been required during the COVID lockdown but it's not a real situation. You can't keep on doing that for ever. SPEAKER: Order! Order! Order! I'm now going to ask the member to speak to the bill. Sorry I was slightly distracted and I came back and I thought he was talking about the next piece of legislation the COVID matter. Let's talk to the bill.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Well thank you Mr Speaker. I am providing the basic context to this bill and this bill is as I say another example of this Government adding costs and regulations to employers at a time as I was trying to explain when they are under intense pressure. They are under intense pressure as it is at the moment; they will be under more intense pressure when the inevitable happens and this Government stops borrowing and at the rate that it is at the moment because we can't keep on doing that for ever. So what puzzles many New Zealanders right now is that given the pressures that we're facing is it really the time to be continuing every week it seems to extend the burdens upon employers? It's very easy for a politician the Prime Minister to stand up during an election campaign and promise to give some New Zealanders the money that is owned by other New Zealanders—to say OK vote for us and we will make them give you more money." Well it's very easy to do but it's not very easy for those businesses to stay in business if they can't afford to pay the extra costs that are being imposed on them. It's not immaterial. We get the impression from some speakers on the other side that doubling the sick leave is not a matter of any consequence; it's just something that happens and it's no big deal. Well the estimates from the officials the best that they can come up with—and they're probably not very detailed and that's what we'll need to be investigating when we have a look at the select committee—is that it could be around a billion dollars. Now that comes on top of additional costs in terms of the minimum wage increases which have been very substantial again at a time when businesses are struggling and a number of other regulatory impositions. So the only question that I have and I'd be very interested to explore this as the bill goes through is how we expect that we will be able to grow the economy and create sustainable higher living standards without businesses investing and growing. Right now it seems the Government is prepared to make it more difficult for that private sector to invest and grow. Look it's all right for you know the city councils and the Government departments and all that to keep on providing more and more generous payments and salary arrangements but ultimately it needs to be paid for by the private sector and that private sector needs to be based on competitiveness. Ultimately the export sector needs to be internationally competitive and our domestic sector needs to be able to provide goods that people can afford. SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member is now getting a second warning and his last warning to come back to the bill. This is not a general economic debate; it's a debate on a specific piece of legislation and I'll remind the member that there's no obligation to fill a full 10 minutes.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. So I think I've made my point and the simple point is that this piece of legislation the doubling of sick leave requirements is something that is nice to have for a country and the question is: is this the right moment to be extending that thing which is nice to have given the incredible pressures that we have at the moment?Hon Michael Wood: A nice to have—stay at home when you're sick.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Well if it's nice to have why don't you just double it again make it four weeks? We have to have some sort of arbitrary limit. So the question is: why is it right right now to double those requirements and put those because it's not a free thing that you're offering? It needs to be paid for by somebody. If you're saying that now is the moment to do it well OK please provide us the evidence as to why now is the time to do it at a time when businesses are struggling more than ever. Thank you very much Mr Speaker."