Curran Clare: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Curran Clare: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 08 February 2012. Volume:677;Page:179. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
11. 
CLARE CURRAN (Labour—Dunedin South) 
 to the  
Minister of Broadcasting 
: Does he stand by the Prime Minister’s statement in relation to the appointment of the Prime Minister’s electorate chairman Stephen McElrea to the NZ On Air board that “if you look at the vast array of appointments we make I think the balance is about right”? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS (Minister of Broadcasting) 
: 
 Yes. 
Clare Curran 
: Did Mr McElrea when making a complaint to the New Zealand On Air chief executive officer and the board chair about the child poverty documentary screened on TV3 give a perception of political interference; if not why? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: Decisions of the board are of the board. I deal with the chair of the board. That is a matter for the board. 
Clare Curran 
: Is he aware that Mr McElrea is part of an operational working group within New Zealand On Air which includes staff and a representative of MediaWorks and which is determining the content of four documentaries funded by more than $1 million by New Zealand On Air? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: I have full confidence in the chair of the board and the six members of the board three of whom have been appointed under the National Government and three of whom were appointed under the previous Labour Government. 
Grant Robertson 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That question began with the words “Is he aware …”. He may be or he may not be but he did not actually address the question of his awareness of that matter. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has some reasonable grievance in the point of order raised I think because the question did indeed start that way and there was no indication whether the Minister was aware or not. I invite the member to repeat her question. 
Clare Curran 
: Is he aware that Mr McElrea is part of an operational working group within New Zealand On Air which includes staff and a representative of MediaWorks and which is determining the content of four documentaries funded by more than $1 million by New Zealand On Air? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: The decisions and processes and structures set up by the board under the Crown Entities Act 2004 therefore are of the board and it is not appropriate for me to comment on those matters of the board’s internal structures. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is the same point of order. It is a very simple question. It might not be appropriate for him to interfere. All he was asked was whether he is aware. Most Ministers would read reports of board minutes of that sort and— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member is now debating the issue. I mean the question was a very simple question. It asked whether the Minister was aware. The Minister’s answer was that he does not get involved in matters to do with the board. Now that could be interpreted that he is not aware. My suggestion in solving this sort of dilemma is to sharpen the question down even more. The question went on to contain a whole lot of information about what this board member may or may not be involved in. It contained detail and gives the Minister more out. If the question is sharpened down to whether he is aware that a certain board member is involved in a certain group full stop it is very difficult then for the Minister to—but the more detail that is built into the question about what might be going on within the organisation that the board is responsible for the more opportunity for the Minister to give the kind of answer the Minister did because Ministers are not responsible for what goes on in there. So I feel there are still further supplementary questions. I have given a fair hint where I might be even more supportive. 
Hon David Parker 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The more specificity in the question the easier it is for the Minister to deny that he is aware. The extra specificity is already in the question and all the Minister has to do is say whether he is aware or not aware in order to address the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The dilemma though with the rules around answering questions is that the more material that is in a question the more opportunity there is for the Minister to focus on that material rather than the bit that the member wanted answered. I believe there is a way. The Minister has given an answer. I accept the dissatisfaction; I understand the dissatisfaction with the answer. But there are more supplementary questions available and rather than having me try to decide whether or not the Minister has given an adequate answer I would rather give the member the chance to dig even more precisely into the matter. 
Clare Curran 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am happy to rephrase the question with more specificity. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has more supplementary questions so she is perfectly at liberty— 
Chris Hipkins 
: Why should she have to use her supplementary question because he is not answering his questions? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member certainly has one more supplementary question. It is not my fault if the member’s party has given away some supplementary questions. 
Clare Curran 
: Why is it appropriate for Mr McElrea the Prime Minister’s electorate chair to be part of a working group within New Zealand On Air that is making decisions on the content programming and other operational decisions of a taxpayer-funded documentary entitled  
Whanau Ora 
 which is described as a “behind-the-scenes look at the implementation of this new initiative that seeks to deliver positive social outcomes for Maori.”? 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: Again I do not think it is appropriate for me to comment on individual members of the board. The board operates under the Crown Entities Act 2004 and it follows due process and due diligence on its appointments and the monitoring and management thereof. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Could the Minister please tell the country as to whether anybody over there knows anything about this very expensive brown elephant in the name of the Maori Party and has he discussed it with the Prime Minister? After all this man is his electorate chairman and presumably has the odd discussion with his now sometime visitor to Helensville. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [ 
Interruption 
]  
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! A point of order has been called. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: At very best a little bit of that question might be in order but most certainly the first part was not nor was the last. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think in fairness the point of order is reasonably well made. I am not going to take a supplementary question away from the member but I invite him to repeat the supplementary question in a way that makes it possible for a Minister to answer. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given the Minister’s last answer which was that he did not want to answer could he please tell me who over there— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Now the member will lose a supplementary question if he is not careful. That is not how supplementary questions are asked. The member will now ask his supplementary question in an intelligible way.  
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Could the Minister tell us whether he or any of his colleagues is prepared to tell the country as to what is happening with Whanau Ora funding and why it justifies a documentary on it at this point in time involving someone who is so close to the Prime Minister as to be his electorate chairperson? 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The first part of that question remains completely out of order. The next bit may just sneak in but by your previous rulings I would doubt it. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: With great respect I think parliamentary question time is when Ministers are required to answer. This idea— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member will resume his seat. I absolutely agree with the member that Ministers should answer questions and in fact I have been trying to insist on that. Maybe I have let a few get away with a little bit too much in that regard but the member knows he has to ask a Minister a question on a subject for which the Minister is responsible. This Minister is not responsible for Whanau Ora if I understand what is going on. The primary part of that supplementary question asked the Minister whether he could tell the House what is going on with this programme called  
Whanau Ora 
. That is not— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I did not ask that at all. I asked what justified it being a documentary. What justified it being a documentary was the question. Please listen. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I accept it is the second day back and sometimes changed procedures take a little while but we do not behave that way. I am going to invite the member to phrase his question in a way that makes it clearly the responsibility of this Minister. I am still on my feet. Ask a question that is in order. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I apologise to the member. There are two points that I want to make and I want to be careful about relitigating the decision you have just made. But asking what is special about a programme that justifies a documentary I think is something that is the responsibility of the Minister of Broadcasting . The second point I would make is you are narrowing matters down when in fact if this question had been allowed to go through by the Government and the Prime Minister had not ducked it it would be clearly within his responsibility. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member may have noticed that I did not rule out any of the supplementary questions of his colleague. I felt they were perfectly within the responsibility of the Minister. All I am asking the right honourable member to do is ask a question that is clearly within the responsibility of the Minister. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Again to the Minister what in his portfolio gives him to believe that a documentary which is part of the portfolio that he is administering should be allocated to a social or economic programme in respect of Maori affairs and be of such importance as to engage the chairman of the Prime Minister’s electorate and whether that in any way is appropriate? 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.  
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Oh look at this! Here comes the member having a go. He knows nothing about the subject matter or the wording. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: Mr Peters I know an awful lot— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Both members will be leaving this House very shortly. That will cease immediately. I will not tolerate that kind of nonsense and the honourable Leader of the House should know better even if other members do not. I have ruled that the question is in order. How intelligible it is is another matter but it is in order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect that is totally out of order and it is in line with— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member will resume his seat [ 
Interruption 
] Order! The Speaker decides whether a matter is in order or not and the member has tested my patience quite sufficiently. The member only needs to reflect; I suggest he reads the  
Hansard 
. I have ruled the question is in order I have overruled the objections of the Leader of the House and I am inviting the Minister to answer it. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wish to support the right honourable gentleman. Your rulings were absolutely right. As an umpire you perform superbly. The problem was you added a role as a commentator which put a member down. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The honourable Leader of the House—and we will not take this much further. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: No but quite clearly you were suggesting that I was unable to make an intelligent assessment of the question and I do not have any grudge against you at all for that. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I recall asking you for a considered ruling I think in the last term on the matter and I am going to ask the same thing. Are you now saying as Speaker—quite rightly you judge what is in order or not—that it is now in order for you to abuse a member of Parliament? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I think members—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! The whole House just should take a deep breath and not be so childish for goodness’ sake. I listen carefully to every question. I have to assess whether or not a Minister answers it. If I find it difficult to understand what the question is—and I am not exactly that stupid—then sometimes it is difficult to assess whether or not the Minister has answered it. I have accepted the question is in order. I am not going to take any further points of order on this. I have warned the member. I have asked the member to answer it and I want him to give his best effort to answer it. 
Hon CRAIG FOSS 
: As far as I remember it. Ministers do not make decisions about what programmes New Zealand On Air funds or shows. It is a contestable funding model at arm’s length from the Government. 
Clare Curran 
: I seek leave to table four documents from New Zealand On Air released under the Official Information Act. The first is dated 26 May 2011 and is titled “A record of decisions made at working group meeting”. The second is dated 22 September 2011 and is titled “Agreement between MediaWorks and NZ On Air”. The third is dated 10 November 2011 and is “A record of decision of working group meeting” and the fourth is dated 18 November 2011 and is a record of an email conversation between Stephen McElrea and members of the working group. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those four documents. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House.