10. Question No. 10—ChildrenDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader—Te Paati Māori) to the Minister for ChildrenQuestion No. 10—Children10. DEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader—Te Paati Māori) to the Minister for Children: Does he agree with all Oranga Tamariki's statements and actions?Hon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister for Children): No. I especially do not stand by the actions of staff members who were shown to have used unacceptable behaviour when restraining children in one of our care and protection residences. But I'm not the only one that does not stand by those actions. This morning the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki Sir Wira Gardiner announced his intention to close the residence Te Oranga until the investigations are completed. I stand by his action because it was made in the best interests of the children in our care.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Does he agree with the statement of his chief executive that all Oranga Tamariki staff in care and protection residences were trained in the correct management of actual pain or potential aggression—or Management of Actual or Potential Aggression (MAPA)—hold technique?Hon KELVIN DAVIS: Yes they were trained in those techniques but whether they applied them in the appropriate way is another question.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: What is the percentage of front-line staff at Oranga Tamariki who have completed the full MAPA training programme?Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I would expect that anybody who works in the child care and protection residences would complete that training.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Point of order. I would ask that the Minister table the evidence to back up that the staff have been trained.SPEAKER: The member can—no she can't actually. If the Minister had a document and quoted from it she could certainly ask for it to be tabled—in fact require it to be tabled. I think when a Minister states his expectations it is very hard to table what leads to that.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: What percentage of workers in youth care and protection residences are trained and qualified social workers as opposed to other support staff such as youth workers?Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I think what's important is that we have in these residences the right people with the right skills dealing with the children. Whether they're social workers or youth workers is irrelevant if they have the best interests of the children at heart.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: I'm not sure—to the Speaker—whether we got the answer. What percentage of workers in youth care and support?SPEAKER: Sure and because the member is still one of the relatively new team there's a Speaker's ruling somewhere—around 183 I think—which indicates that if the member wants a specific answer then she's got to ask a specific question. You can't just ask a general question and expect the Minister to have a whole pile of details even if it is related.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Thank you. When was the Oranga Tamariki Child Protection Protocol last reviewed and updated?Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I expect Oranga Tamariki to regularly update all of their protocols. But there's one thing to have protocols; it's another thing to actually apply them and this is what has obviously failed. I'm not standing here making any excuses for the failings of Oranga Tamariki. What has gone on is totally unacceptable and that's why myself and the chief executive Sir Wira Gardiner are standing up and putting the children's best interests at heart. When we saw the video the other day within 24 hours the staff were stood down. Within 48 hours that residence was closed. That's decisive action.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: I just would like to go on record that the question was: when was the Oranga Tamariki child protocol last reviewed?SPEAKER: And it certainly was addressed. I am going to warn the member that having a running commentary about her dissatisfaction with answers is disorderly and if she does it deliberately it's highly disorderly. I'm going to be generous and take this as a learning moment.