Seymour David; Kuriger BarbaraHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Health (Pharmac)): Thank you Madam Chair and thanks to those who have risen to their feet. I just want to premise my comments by referring to the Standing Orders which are very clear that the purpose of the committee stage is to verify and inquire if the bill as drafted actually fits with the objects and principles that were decided at the second reading. There's been quite a lot of commentary that frankly doesn't fit that criteria but I will try and address as much as I can anyway. There is for example a suggestion of an amendment on storage; I look forward to debating that.There were some questions about the process gone through to make the law but it was actually a reference to the regulations made under the Medicines Act rather than anything to do with this bill which is an amendment to the Misuse of Drugs Act. There was a question the danger to pharmacy that came up in various ways. There was an acknowledgment that the prescriptions and doctors' visits are a barrier to people getting pseudoephedrine. That's certainly true. Somebody asked if there was a cavalier attitude to cough medicine. I don't think you can have that but they asked about some comments I'd made about It'll be here by winter if Medsafe and the suppliers play ball." Well again you know that is in relation to the regulations made under the Medicines Act. That's actually quite separate from this bill but it is certainly true for the member's information that Medsafe must allow a specific product to be allowed in. That's quite different from the definition of pseudoephedrine medications in general becoming a restricted medicine under the regulations.Then there's the question of my comments about the Five Eyes partners. I think it's pretty obvious that this has got nothing to do with defence security or intelligence; it's just cough medicine. However I did use Five Eyes as shorthand for the five countries—Australia Canada the United Kingdom and the United States—that along with New Zealand make up the Five Eyes networks. Those other four countries all have near identical if not identical approaches to pseudoephedrine drink cough medicine as New Zealand has or will have very soon if this law passes. And that was the only point I had wanted to make with that.Somebody said that I'd said it was better not to seek information from affected communities. I think the way to point there is that actually you can have paralysis by analysis. I think what we need to do is make clear that we are introducing a regime of regulating cough medicine similar to the four other countries that we most often compare ourselves with. I think that you know we can safely say that people have had the opportunity to submit and I listen to the likes of Know Your Stuff NZ who know a lot about drugs they have been pretty clear about the fact they don't believe it's viable to manufacture methamphetamine.And then finally there was a question of how sales will be monitored. Again this is not part of the legislation. There was no agreement at second reading to talk about monitoring sales. So it's not really in order for the committee stage to talk about that but I'll answer anyway just to try and you know entertain the member. Look first of all pharmacies do actually have to record them. They are increasingly using e-prescribing so I suspect that the amount of information available is only going to grow with technology. But in terms of how I could monitor sales or anyone could Medsafe have to let the stuff be imported. So we'll have a pretty good idea of how much is coming into the country if you wanted to monitor sales. Ginny Andersen mentioned pharmacies and drug shopping. Again not strictly part of this stage of considering the bill but nonetheless I think it's pretty clear that the evidence that's come through the Health Committee is such that people don't believe it will be viable to manufacture methamphetamine in this way. The price has come down dramatically. People have better ways of getting it sadly and that's why they don't believe that this will be an issue.Hūhana Lyndon brought up again very interesting issues but they're not part of the legislation that we're considering right now. The question is the drug counselling for those addicted; I think schemes like Te Ara Oranga are well worth funding but that's not what we're considering as part of this legislation; that wasn't what was agreed at the second reading of this bill.And finally what if caught pill shopping? Well you would be misusing a drug and there are penalties in return for doing that.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The committee of the whole House will resume at 7.30 p.m.Sitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7.30 p.m."