5. Question No. 5—FinanceHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour—Mana) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 5—Finance5. Hon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour—Mana) to the Minister of Finance: Meitaki maata Mr Speaker. Does she stand by her statement Our Budget was very deliberate in the funding of core priorities because our priorities are the same priorities as New Zealanders"; if so is she concerned that her choices are disconnected from everyday New Zealanders?Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): In answer to the first part of the question yes; in answer to the second part of the question no.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Has Cabinet approved funding for KiwiRail to break its contract with Hyundai Mipo for two new rail-enabled Interislander ferries; and does she believe paying Hyundai hundreds of millions of dollars not to build ferries is a priority for New Zealanders?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: The negotiations between KiwiRail and Hyundai are a commercial matter between those two parties and not something that I view that it is in the public interest to comment on in this House. I have previously made clear the Government's view that we can have safe reliable ferry services and that we will take the action needed to ensure that is the case.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Is she aware that since KiwiRail contracted for the ferries the price of new ships has risen by 50 percent in US dollars; and can she guarantee the new ferries and sunk costs from cancelling the ferries will be less than $2 billion?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: On the advice I have received to date I can be very confident that the cost of delivering new ferries will be less than the projected cost of the failed and flawed project iReX even when sunk costs are taken into account. And I had the experience yesterday of visiting CentrePort where they showed me where hundreds of millions of dollars would have had to be poured in to allow for enormous ships with enormous berths and rail enablement and I asked them "How much would it cost to ensure that wharf could take a normal-sized ferry?" And they said "Zero."Hon Barbara Edmonds: Point of order Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister if the sunk costs in the new ferries would be less than $2 billion. The figure that she points to in relation to it being less than is actually $3 billion according to reports by her comments.SPEAKER: Well if the question had been a little more clear in that regard it might have been helpful but I can't rule that the question wasn't answered.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Is she aware the E-Flexer ferries the ministerial advisory group recommends are at least 50 percent larger than the largest current ferry and will need new wharfs and infrastructure meaning she will have to make most of the land-side investments that she cancelled under the Cook Strait ferry project?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well two things. First the member is making a series of assertions about a report that is not in the public domain and I would suggest to her she be very careful about whether or not the sources she is getting her information from are providing her with accurate fully contextualised information because it will eventually go to her credibility if she makes assertions in this House that are incorrect. Second I wish to offer a point of clarification in regards to the previous comments that I made to be clear to the House. When I said "Zero" what I meant was the potential cost to the Crown. It will of course cost something to upgrade port facilities. The point is what costs the Crown incurs. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Just wait for the House to quieten down.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Is she aware that procuring new ferries that are not rail-enabled will cost $150 to $200 per container; and is putting that extra cost on Kiwi businesses a priority for her Government?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Again the member is unfortunately making assertions without grounding in fact. So I would point this out to the member: she is now in the position of defending a project which blew out to a total cost of at least $3 billion. Now the cost of that project members—only a tiny percentage around 21 percent was actually for the cost of ships; the rest of it was all for building berths and facilities that were big enough to take ships. The previous Government committed to cars that were far too big for the garage had no plan to build the garage and then found out halfway through that the garage was going to cost more than the car.Hon Barbara Edmonds: Is it prudent financial management for her to cancel the Cook Strait ferry project with no alternative plan to have no idea what the contract break fees would be and to have no idea how much alternative ferries and infrastructure would cost?Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Yes for two reasons—one because we can be confident that we can deliver safe reliable ferry services into the future with less cost than would have been required with the project committed to by the previous Government. Second I'd just like to make this point to the House: today yesterday and the day before there were crossings by the Bluebridge ferry company that were on time and reliable. And do you know how much public money went into those crossings? Zero. [Interruption]Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: I'm just waiting for the House to come to—Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: I'll call you as soon as we're all tidy.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: In light of the Minister's last answer Mr Speaker if it turns out that Bluebridge in fact cancelled sailings this week because one of its own ferries was encountering difficulties would you expect the Minister to correct that answer?SPEAKER: Put that point of order again—sorry.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: The Minister just made a claim that Bluebridge has had a flawless record this week in its Cook Strait ferry operations. If it turns out that Bluebridge have in fact been cancelling sailings and disrupting its own operations this week because of its own difficulties would you expect the Minister to correct that answer in the House?SPEAKER: Well in so much as the Minister has some responsibility for the timetabling of Bluebridge ferries perhaps. But if there's something that the Minister discovers later is incorrect then I would expect it to be corrected as we had earlier today.Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Speaking to the point of order I'm quite happy right here and now to clarify that when I used the rhetorical device of "this week" perhaps what I should have said and would have been more accurate is that in general Bluebridge provide reliable services that don't require public subsidy. And the point that the member makes is a fair one—SPEAKER: Just stop—just stop. [Interruption] Just stop! [Interruption] Sorry—when I say "stop" I would like the Minister to please stop. That should have been heard with silence because it was part of a point of order. So we'll just try and get that order back in the House."