Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:611;Page:8821] 
1. Hon Dr NICK SMITH (NZ National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Minister of Conservation 
: Will he be proceeding with the High Court judicial review against the Maori Land Court decision in respect of Maori ownership of the Wakapuaka Estuary north of Nelson; if not why not? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Conservation) 
: 
 Yes. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Will the Minister give the House and the people of Nelson an absolute assurance that no title will be able to fall into the hands of iwi exclusively for the area of the Wakapuaka Estuary? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I can give the people of Nelson and this House an assurance that the Government will appeal this decision. 
David Parker 
: Is this case about customary title? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: In the Crown’s view no. The Crown considers that this case is about whether a boundary was mistakenly drawn to include the foreshore and seabed. It is a case about administrative error not customary interests. The Crown will argue in the High Court that the Maori Land Court should not have granted title to the mudflats below the high-water mark. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Given the Minister’s admission that the Crown will appeal the Maori Land Court decision in respect of Wakapuaka Estuary and presumably Ohiwa Harbour can he give the same guarantee that his Government will not proceed with the transfer of the ownership of the lake beds and the foreshore of 14 Rotorua lakes to local Maori? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I suggest that the member refer that question to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Noting that the Government has said that it will pass new laws to clarify ownership of the foreshore will the Minister now answer my earlier question which is: will he give this Parliament and the people of Nelson an absolute assurance that the Wakapuaka Estuary will not be allowed to fall into exclusive ownership of local iwi? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: This Government has already given the country an assurance that no title will be given to the foreshore and seabed. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. When I sought assurance from the Minister regarding the status of the 14 Rotorua lakes the reply was that I should refer the question to the Minister in charge of Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations. The Department of Conservation which this Minister has direct control over has responsibility for several of those Rotorua lakes and I ask that he reply to the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If the Minister wants to add to his answer he could. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I would like to reinforce the answer that I have already given. I do not have responsibility for treaty negotiations; another Minister is privileged to hold that position. I would urge the member to refer that question to her. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Has the Minister ever met with Ngati Tama to ask how their ancestral title can best be recognised and will he endeavour to negotiate a good-faith outcome with Ngati Tama that preserves both their ancestral rights and public access to the foreshore? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: That member has asked two questions. No I have not met formally with Ngati Tama. In the year I have been privileged to hold the portfolio of conservation I hope that I have demonstrated a willingness to negotiate with iwi all over New Zealand. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Can I try for a third time and ask the Minister: can he give an absolute assurance to the House and to the people of Nelson that iwi will not be able to receive private exclusive title for the area of the Wakapuaka Estuary under the legislation being proposed by this Government—yes or no? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: For the last month or more this Government has given a clear and consistent message to the people of New Zealand that we do not regard the granting of title to seabed and foreshore as possible. 
Stephen Franks 
: Given his attempt at an unequivocal assurance would the Minister clarify whether he is correct or the Prime Minister is correct when the Prime Minister has told us only that there will be no fee simple title and has refused to rule out any of the myriad other titles under which people can have exclusive rights? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The assurance that I can give this House and it is the same assurance that the Prime Minister has given is that there will be no fee simple title. 
Ron Mark 
: In listening to the answer I noticed that the Minister was taking direct guidance from the Prime Minister. I seek leave for the Prime Minister to actually answer herself since she seems to want the Minister to repeat the very words that she was passing back to him. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Ron Mark 
: I am seeking leave. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member is seeking leave? 
Ron Mark 
: Yes. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Prime Minister can do that for herself if she wishes. The member cannot seek leave on behalf of someone else. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! That is the one time that I give that warning today. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Noting that the Minister cannot give me the categorical assurance that I seek in respect of the Wakapuaka Estuary why should the public of New Zealand believe the Government on any other beach estuary or foreshore anywhere else in New Zealand? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I can give that member and every other member of this House an absolute assurance that there will be no exclusive title to foreshore and seabed anywhere in New Zealand. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We have had to endure three repetitions of that statement by that Minister when we all know that on 23 June the Prime Minister said the very reverse. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. It is a point of debate.