Bayly Andrew; Webb DuncanANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): I know our Labour members on the other side—we're at only clause 37 and this bill goes to 146 so I would encourage members on the other side rather than sitting there passively waiting to go and celebrate and do other things tonight to actually join in the conversation and actually provide some input.So I think that was a revelation of the night from the Minister. So I just want to be very very clear because you know I've asked this many times of the officials during the process: what is the nature of the ownership and what is the nature of the entity that we're talking about here with these four-cum-10 water services entities? That as I understand it is they are not companies but they have a special meaning. So I just want to be very very clear and I'm looking at the officials here. I presume these entities have to account for GST but can the Minister just give a straight answer: are these entities required to pay tax on their activities—first of all in their regulated activities as set out in this bill and their non-regulated activities which I am about to get in to? But I just want to a very clear answer from you Minister hopefully from your officials and I see they are still debating back there—OK. So I hasten to carry on unless they are ready to talk?Dr Liz Craig: No carry on!ANDREW BAYLY: OK I'll carry on. So this gives rise to clause 35 about goods and services. The reason I was just asking this about non-regulated is: If the regulated water services provider provides goods or services that are not subject to regulation under this Part … the provider may be required to" provide a whole lot of stuff to the Commerce Commission—consolidated financial statements reconciliation of information provided information on the financing of all businesses. Can the Minister help the committee in terms of saying we all understand what the role is of regulated services under the water services: to provide water waste water and stormwater. So obviously the contentious third but what are the activities that a water company or water services entity is permitted under this to be able to do? What would be the nature of those activities—therefore subject to this very specific clause clause 35? So two big questions about tax and then secondly about this and hopefully those officials of yours at the back there are going to answer this question.Wow—I've got to keep going do I? Well a good thing we're looking ahead because I just want to give the Minister plenty of time to give us the right answer to this. Now I want to turn to clause 38 in terms of monitoring compliance for this section and this is about the entity providing a quality path which is—as you know the Minister used one example pressure. Another one might be water colour which is a normal one—might be some other stuff. I just would really be keen to understand this overlap with Taumata Arowai as I've talked about earlier in terms of what that means—because where it says in clause 38(2)(a) "a written statement that states whether the provider has complied with the quality paths applying to that provider". So there's two issues: one has got to comply with Taumata Arowai because that's the one that sets the standard and the second one I presume is meaning it's got to comply with the requirements of the Commerce Commission. Maybe the Minister can be clear about that. Then it goes on to say "a report on the written statement referred to [just above] that is signed by an auditor". So here we go. We are going to have a written statement done by the company which complies with an independent entity called Taumata Arowai then it's got to get an auditor to do it. First question: what's the nature of that auditor? Is it financial auditor defining on a quality standard or is it some other auditor? What is the nature of that auditor?There we are; we have got a couple of questions in there. I can carry on but hopefully now you've got some answers to those tax questions Minister.Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Thank you for your wide-ranging discourse there. Ownership structure issues which you've asked on a number of occasions are simply not part of this legislation so I won't be addressing that. Similarly the general tax structures are also part of the Water Services Entities Act 2022 and whilst I have addressed it in respect of the input methodologies the wider tax issues are not.Clause 35 is simply about disaggregating unregulated from regulated services and sets out exactly how that is to be done. In terms of your questions around clause 38 you're essentially putting I would say the cart before the horse because the very question is what those quality standards are. That is the question that is for the regulator to decide not for me to give my reckon here today.And as for audit it's well recognised that audit is simply a function of accreditation and ascertaining the meeting of standards and despite your background there are plenty of auditors out there who are not financial auditors but are quality auditors and I'm sure the commission will be well placed to identify an appropriate auditor or auditors for the task."