Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 12 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:7696. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
5. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister for Economic Development 
: Will he implement the recommendations for jobs and economic development made in Greenpeace’s  
Energy Revolution 
 report researched and co-authored by the German Aerospace Centre—advisers to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change—and the University of Technology Sydney? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development) 
: 
 First I am pleased to advise the member that New Zealand is and has been for some time investing more in renewable energy and environmentally friendly technology. For example this Government has a target of 90 percent renewable energy by 2025 and renewables make up currently about 77 percent of our electricity generation which is actually the second-highest in the OECD. We have also implemented and invested around $347 million in the Warm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart programme. However the trouble with the report as I read it is that it introduces massive additional subsidies and costs to the New Zealand economy and would be dislocating in terms of additional costs on New Zealand households and businesses. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he agree with the report’s main findings that New Zealand has the right mix of resources and talent to become a world leader in achieving a low-carbon prosperous economy creating new jobs and industries that will deal not only with the issues of climate change but also with some of the economic challenges facing New Zealand? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I agree with him to the extent that I believe that New Zealand has the right mix of talent and expertise to achieve in a whole range of industries. The Government has a view that the investment in industries is led largely by the private sector of course which is placing its own money at risk and that investment tends to flow to the areas where investment can be profitable and industries can be profitable. The difficulty in actually trying to direct it away from those areas is the fact that it involves very considerable cost to taxpayers either directly or indirectly. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: That being the case why does the Government continue to invest in areas such as motorways the roads of national significance which consistently—or a number of the projects show—have greater costs than benefits and also increase New Zealand’s carbon footprint rather than invest in transport options that would reduce our greenhouse emissions and reduce our oil imports? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Well there are a couple of points there. Firstly my understanding as a former transport Minister is that they have very significant benefits over costs particularly compared with some of the public transport projects the member advocates. Of course the Government is not just investing in roading projects. But I will point out again—and I think it was addressed previously by the finance Minister—that actually those who use the roads pay for those investments. We do invest in public transport but it is important to note that those who use public transport in many cases pay less than half the cost. There has to be an ongoing subsidy. So I think you are suggesting that there be even more subsidies to transport modes that people do not use voluntarily and in fact pay for voluntarily. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: In light of the difficult jobs creation record of the Government—no new jobs in 4 years—will the Government consider adopting a different economic strategy rather than the current one backing the mining industry for example and actually look at manufacturing a much larger employer—and particularly clean-technology manufacturing—as an alternative given that so far the Government’s strategy has failed to produce the jobs? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: My response to that is firstly we have very significant investment in this country in clean technologies. In fact I could name for the member any number of companies that are developing further and investing further in jobs and growth in the New Zealand economy right now. But the member again seems to be suggesting that the Government subsidise jobs in industries where they would not otherwise occur—and that that is an answer for economic nirvana in some way—and actually move jobs away from industries where they are prepared to invest in those industries without Government subsidy. With the greatest respect that is a recipe to head the country to the poorhouse. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: With regard to subsidies is he aware that in his previous answers and in the previous answers of the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister they have given us long lists of particular sectors that the Government is subsidising—the mining sector is of course the favourite of the Government—and why is it that it is OK for the Government to subsidise areas such as mining whereas it is quite hostile to providing even a level playing field to the clean-technology sector? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Well with the greatest respect to the member we are not subsidising the mining sector. In actual fact all we are not doing is putting the extra costs that the member would advocate on the mining sector and somehow that is supposed to be a subsidy—which with the greatest respect is just up there with printing money in economic ludicrousness.