Rurawhe AdrianSPECIAL DEBATESPetitions Committee Report—Petition of Citizens Advice Bureau New Zealand: Leave no-one behind – Campaign to address digital exclusion DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before I call the Hon Jacqui Dean I'm going to ask all members who are standing on the floor having conversations to please leave if you're leaving. Hon Carmel Sepuloni you need to take your kōrero outside please. Thank you.Hon JACQUI DEAN (Chairperson of the Petitions Committee): I move That the House take note of the report of the Petitions Committee on the Petition of Citizens Advice Bureau New Zealand: Leave no-one behind—Campaign to address digital exclusion.This is a rare and exciting day for the Petitions Committee—the mighty Petitions Committee. This is our second special debate on an issue that the committee has determined to be of sufficient national interest and importance that we have recommended that a special debate be undertaken. I would like and I do hope I'm not going too far out of the Standing Orders to welcome and acknowledge the members of Citizens Advice Bureau New Zealand (CAB) to the House. I want to welcome them all. I want to thank them very much for providing the Petitions Committee and Parliament with such a comprehensive and well-thought-out petition. I'll just remind them that they're not allowed to lean on the—just not allowed. Yeah you'll get told off! It is a big day for us because it allows us on the floor of this Parliament to debate some pretty critical issues which go wider even than digital inclusion the issue of digital inclusion. This issue goes much wider than for example being able to access Government information online. Yes that's one part of it but the issue of digital inclusion and those people who are not included who feel they are falling behind leads to a number of problems for those very people.I'm now going to reference my sister Sarah who is a disabled lady. She's lovely. She lives in a retirement village because she's a bit vulnerable. She is the most wonderful person who's spent so much time helping residents in her community with online matters simply because a number of older New Zealanders whether they are in their own homes or whether they are in communities do have trouble accessing services online. I want to thank my sister Rah—that's her name—and all of those people in our community who do give of their time to support their friends and their neighbours so that those people can engage online for the very simple things like contacting Inland Revenue like contacting the Ministry of Social Development or it might be wider than that. In fact it can be doing a bit of online grocery shopping and particularly now in these COVID times where older folk are rightly nervous around going to the supermarket or going to the chemist or going to do their jobs in town. The ability to order online is important to them. But what if they don't have a device? What if they don't have the connectivity? What if they don't have the confidence to go online? That is digital exclusion.So back directly to the CAB's petition I'm going to read it out. I think it's very important to put on the record of this House just what the Citizens Advice Bureau of New Zealand are asking for: That the House of Representatives urge the Government to address digital exclusion so that no-one is left behind because they can't or don't wish to engage online." Citizens Advice wish "to implement accessibility and inclusion standards for public services that include offline channels"; and they also wish "to ensure Citizens Advice Bureau is resourced to address the impacts of public services going online".In our deliberations in the committee and in my reflection before speaking today one simple question occurred to me which of course had been raised in this very good submission. That is: what are we trying to achieve on moving to an online basis? And are we taking everyone in New Zealand with us? I think that is the critical question here. Having an online presence is marvellous for people like me who are relatively competent online. Goodness me I was even able to apply for a new passport! It took a while; it wasn't that easy. I reflected at the time "This is going to take me a long time. I know I can save and I can dip back in I can save and I can dip back in." That level of digital literacy isn't consistent across New Zealand. So what does everybody else do? And what does a Government agency do to meet that need. I would argue: not enough.I was astounded to hear today in question time at question No. 5 the Hon David Parker in the context of a question around how eligible New Zealanders can ensure they receive the first cost of living payment on 1 August—that was the question to the Minister. The Minister answered and it'll be in the Hansard that he recommended people log on to myIR to check whether the Government's cost of living payment was in their bank account. Well that is exactly—exactly—the problem that many New Zealanders are having and if those New Zealanders are some of those who are eligible for the Government's cost of living payment—which is a one-off payment; very good—but they're not able to access myIR by themselves where do they go? It is consistent across other Government departments.So the challenge for the Government and the challenge for the next National Government which is a challenge that we are very happy to take up and I know my colleague Melissa Lee will speak more on this point is that it is imperative that the Government meet the need—not their need. It's very nice having myIR; it's all very well but meet the need that exists in our community. And I do not see that happening. The reason I don't see it happening is that I have an endless of stream of folk coming into my electorate office and who I meet with throughout my electorate who are struggling to access Government services online.So what do people do? Who meets this unmet need? Well of course it's Citizens Advice Bureau—of course it is—and Citizens Advice Bureau fully acknowledge that that is their role and thank goodness for that. The question that the Citizens Advice Bureau are asking us to say is "You've just shifted the problem. You've gone online you've created a need and you're not meeting that need." So by having Citizens Advice they just pick up the pieces—and so by the way do MPs' offices. And yes that is part of our role and we are very glad to meet that need.I think that Citizens Advice Bureau have raised a very important matter that we in the House and the Government need to take note of. Simply what needs to happen is that the Government of the day needs to decide to meet the need of all New Zealanders not just those who are digitally literate. How do they do that? Please don't form another working group. Just don't do that. What is needed are concrete steps into developing a way for the Government to once again step out and do what it should be doing and that is to support the vulnerable the visually impaired the disabled the minority groups who are struggling to access digital services. It's all very well intentioned and we must keep going with moving on to a digital platform but the Government needs to support the people in New Zealand. Thank you Mr Speaker.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ian McKelvie): The question is that the motion be agreed to."