Goldsmith Paul; Andersen GinnyHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Madam Chair. I wanted to just say a few words on this bill which as the member in charge Ginny Andersen acknowledges is a modest bill in the sense that it makes a small change to an area which is of obviously great concern to particularly parents of teenage children fearful of the possibility of harm being done to them online and through grooming. Ultimately after going around and around a bit through the select committee process we've landed on this area where it removes the requirement just to actually physically meet but it still has an offence in terms of online grooming and in so far as that may make it easier for the police to deal with people who have evil intent in this area—to hold them to account and to keep people safe—we support it in that respect.The only point I would make is that there is some irony I suppose where we are contemplating a bill which relates to child exploitation offences and introduces penalties of up to two years' imprisonment for doing this and I think a lot of us will be conscious of the fact that this year a young man was convicted of four rapes against young women and ended up with nine months' home detention. So I suppose there are broader issues around child exploitation and crimes against young children in the sexual sense in the justice system that I don't think we manage effectively and the justice system doesn't manage effectively in coming up with what we would think would be perverse outcomes as a justice system in that respect where those convicted of heinous crimes are ending up with very modest sentences yet at the same time we're passing a bill introducing two-year prison sentences for grooming activity.My only question I suppose I have to the member is—she clearly sees the significance of the crime involved in this legislation and seeks to denounce that act through this legislation. I suppose the only point is what reflections if any she has on the broader context of our justice system and does it send an equally clear message for more serious sexual crimes as well? It's certainly our view on this side of the House that we do need to send a clearer message—Dr Duncan Webb: It's a members' day.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: —and get that through and I think it is relevant in the context of this debate to make that point Mr Webb. So with those final thoughts I will end my contribution.GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour—Hutt South): Thank you very much to the member Paul Goldsmith for that substantial contribution which I will try to respond to. Look I don't take lightly at all the seriousness of online harm to young children. As a parent I am fearful for my own children in terms of what they are exposed to online. We know for a fact that paedophiles and that predators prey online and impersonate other children in order to gain access to communicating with our children. If we can strengthen our law if we can increase penalties and if we can make it incredibly clear that there will be police who will be watching and looking to make sure our online spaces are as safe as possible that's got to be a good thing for our general justice system. The more that we see the prevalence of different online platforms popping up and how difficult it is to monitor what type of communication and how we can make sure that children remain safe when they're communicating when they think it's with people who they can trust I think it's incredibly important that we consistently review our legislation and make sure that it's robust enough to act where possible as a deterrent to those who seek to prey upon the vulnerable in our society.