Cosgrove Clayton: Courts and Criminal Matters Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Cosgrove Clayton: Courts and Criminal Matters Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:626;Page:21681] 
CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
: 
 I rise to make a couple of comments about this and I have to say that that was an example of another road to Damascus experience from that member. [ 
Interruption 
] “What about his CV?” my colleague asked. Well we will not go into that. 
The National Government had 9 years to do something about fines defaulters. 
Brian Connell 
: Come on! 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Oh he is fired up—he has had his muesli this morning. Somebody put some chilli powder on the muesli this morning. 
This bill talks about people being stopped at the border. To put that into plain language it sets up a trigger mechanism so that if that member wanted to go to Sydney and he is triggered on the system as having fines then he can be stopped at the border. [ 
Interruption 
] I think the member is out of control. The enforcement mechanism which he bleats on about and says does not apparently exist in the bill means he would be stopped at the border and would not get on the plane. He would not be allowed to go until the fine is paid. 
We have defaulters going back 20 or 30 years and I would have thought that that member Tony Ryall who was the Minister of Justice for a period during those 9 long years of the last National Government might have done something about that. But now when the rubber has hit the road we have introduced a bill to tighten up the situation and have put forward some practical measures like data matching with the Customs Service information sharing with the Inland Revenue Department and stopping people at the border so that they do not get out unless they pay. 
Of course members opposite say that it is not tough enough that it is all wrong and that we should do a whole series of other things. Well I ask why the lift did not make the top floor with that member in it while his party was in Government. Why did the last National Government not have all the ideas that those members have proposed to the House today now that they have no responsibility and they know damn well they cannot implement anything? Why did they not propose those solutions then? Why did Tony Ryall when he was the Minister not actually propose something while he was in Government? 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Because the debt was half of what it is now. 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: That is his alibi and excuse for doing absolutely nothing apart from parking his ministerial backside into a limousine and taking his pay. Because the debt was half he did nothing about it he says. I suppose that means that if under a National Government the crime and murder rates were half what they are now those members would say that they should not do anything about it. People would still be getting killed and burglaries would still be going on but they would do nothing. Well I thank Mr Ryall who will be the next Minister of Justice—or so he says. What a wonderful campaign slogan that will be to take around the country! 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: A few halfwits! 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Yes there are a few halfwits over there—absolutely! So when things get to be about half as bad as they are now Mr Ryall will say: “White flag! I’m off. I will do nothing.” That attitude tells members in this House a lot. 
I say to Mr Ryall that for 9 years he had an opportunity to tidy up the fines defaulter system but National members never put forward one piece of legislation that would tighten it up. They never did the sort of simple thing that my colleague Mr Barker has done—the “name and shame” campaign. Now I like that because the names of the people who do default are put out there. I am not sure what the statistics are for those who have paid up because they have been shamed but it is a really simple idea—put an advertisement in the paper. 
But Mr Ryall says that because the numbers of fines defaulters were only half what they are now he chose to do nothing. I really do thank him for that contribution because it tells the people of New Zealand a heck of a lot about National. If things are half as bad those members are off down the beach in their Speedos out with the tanning oil and getting a tan—they do not care! Well the Labour Government has now done something to fix that problem. We have introduced practical measures in this bill. What did those members put forward when they were in Government? They put forward nothing. What do they put forward now? They still put forward nothing. They simply say that when it is half as bad they will go off to the beach and do nothing. That was a pathetic response from that side of the House. Despite the gasbagging coming from the member for Rakaia this is a good bill. 
Hon Harry Duynhoven 
: They used to stand for something. 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: National members used to stand for something but now they sit for something. 
The Courts and Criminal Matters Bill is a good bill and I support it. Yet again people will know that we put forward the practical ideas and the solutions that are implemented while National members do nothing.