Seymour DavidDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT): Well thank you very much Madam Chair. I refer briefly to the amendment on the Table in the name of Dr Nick Smith which would as he tells us restrict the testing to be done at music festivals. We're listening—ACT is listening—but we would like Dr Smith to tell the committee how a music festival will be defined. Will there be a required level of musicality or festivity in his amendments and how will that be enforced? Because it could be quite useful if those things were indeed measurable and practical to measure. Perhaps Dr Smith would even give a demonstration of the musicality and festivity required to the committee but I suspect it's going to be difficult for us to support that.I'd also like to ask the Minister in the chair Andrew Little about new section 35DH the amendments that would say An employee or a volunteer of a service provider is not liable for anything they do or fail to do in the course of the performance". In the scenario where some drugs are tested and it turns out they're bad and somebody is harmed by taking them but the service provider has in some way failed in their duty are they liable under the Health and Safety at Work Act? Because surely they're a person conducting a business or undertaking (PCBU). Now this leads to an interesting question: is there a carve-out? Because a lot of people up and down this country would love a carve-out from the liabilities of the Health and Safety at Work Act. Being a PCBU if you're a director if you're somebody on one of these service providers if you're on the board of KnowYourStuffNZ you'd want to know that you are not going to be liable for some kid that takes some drugs. You tell them—you don't communicate properly whatever and they harm themselves—have you taken all reasonably practicable steps? Because that's the bar that people operating farms and businesses up and down this country face.So you know we've got to be very careful here. It may well be that with regard to workplace health and safety service providers like KnowYourStuffNZ are already operating in that kind of legal grey area and this legislation will actually have no effect on the situation. If that's the case I don't think we should concern ourselves with it tonight but on the other hand you'd want to be pretty sure—and I know the Minister in the chair has only recently become the Minister of Health. He's got a very very rich background in labour relations and workplace health and safety; he's in a very good position to address this and I'm sure there will be people who would very much like to have some reassurance about how the new section 35DH particularly subsection (1) of that new section is going to interact with the laws that apply to people up and down this country when they are operating a business as a person conducting a business or undertaking—you know what sorts of rules apply to them and does this section actually create a carve-out from the Health and Safety at Work Act because if that's the case well this is something the ACT Party wholeheartedly supports. There'd be a wide range of people—employers and people in organisations rugby clubs up and down this country—who would love to know that Parliament can give them such an exemption. But certainly to date it seemed very unusual—in fact unprecedented—that that has been allowed to happen.So I hope that the Minister drawing on the expertise that he has and has built up over many decades in his law practice and as a Minister in the previous Government and as a member of this House will be able to give some clarity because I know that there'll be people who are very much in favour of this bill people who would otherwise be operators who would actually really really like to be able to get some clarity. I think particularly in a scenario where there is the absence of a regulatory impact statement where there is the absence of a select committee process with submissions and so on and where all of this is going to happen very very fast with guidelines set out by the Director-General of Health—given all of that it would be very very helpful if the Minister could rise to his feet and give clarification about the interaction between the Health and Safety at Work Act on the one hand and this legislation before us tonight on the other.Now I don't know what's happening Madam Chair—I was fairly certain that at 10 o'clock the committee would actually rise but it looks like we're going into extra time and I'm looking forward to hearing what the Minister has to say all night long."