Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8605] 
1. Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: When will he express confidence or not in the chairs of the Auckland district health boards Wayne Brown Pat Snedden and Kay McKelvie? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 All chairs and board members retain their full roles and responsibilities for now. The member’s constant refrain on confidence is of limited value at present for two reasons. One is that the judgment may be appealed. Another reason is that there is legal debate as to whether the judgment is new law. That said the judgment of serious procedural error has been made and is the current legal position. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: When was the Minister first told that Dr Bierre had stood down as an active member of the Auckland District Health Board in late December 2005 so that Dr Bierre could bid for the half-billion-dollar Auckland lab contract and what action did he take at that time? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I have no recollection of being told that Dr Bierre had been stood down but I may have been. Dr Bierre of course did not resign from the Auckland District Health Board I think until about August 2006 and that of course was made available to me at the time of resignation. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: What advice does the Minister have on the extent to which Wayne Brown as chair of the Auckland District Health Board may have been misled by the advocacy in favour of Dr Bierre by Dr Paul Hutchison who signed a letter as National’s spokesperson on health—curious indeed—and by the support of board member Dr Jackie Blue who was also Dr Bierre’s running mate? 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I heard the first section of that question. I could not hear the rest of it. It is a very important issue and I would ask that members at least in this quarter of the House be allowed to hear. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I would ask the Minister to repeat his question. If he could do so in a summary form I would appreciate that. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: What advice does the Minister have on the extent to which Wayne Brown as chief executive of the Auckland District Health Board may have been misled by the advocacy in favour of Dr Bierre by Paul Hutchison who signed a letter on his behalf as the National spokesperson on health? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I am pleased to report to the member that Mr Brown at that point was misled to no extent whatever. He did receive a letter from National’s spokesperson Dr Hutchison who certainly did write to suggest that Dr Bierre should be given some money for his laboratory. Mr Brown would have been aware that another member of his board Dr Jacqui Blue was on the same side because her membership of the National Party was public knowledge. Despite that Mr Brown’s response was not to cave in to the pressure but to do the opposite: to challenge Dr Bierre directly on his conflict of interest. Three Tories versus Mr Brown—no contest. On the other hand Mr Brown did make a mistake—that is he believed Dr Bierre’s response that he had mothballed his practice. Clearly he had not. 
Barbara Stewart 
: If the Minister cannot express his full confidence in the three chairs of the Auckland district health boards does that mean they will be replaced at the next opportunity with others whom the Minister can have full confidence in? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I say to the member again that the brightline of confidence and no confidence is of limited value to me for two reasons. The first is that there may be an appeal to the judgment. We will know that in another 2 or 3 weeks. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: That’s irrelevant to people who want tests. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Well it is not irrelevant if district health board personnel are to be joined to the appeal. The second reason is that there is legal debate as to whether the judgment is new law. 
Ann Hartley 
: Was the Minister’s decision yesterday to order a focused performance audit on conflict of interest issues based on any known problems that currently exist in this regard at the three district health boards? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I am not aware of any major issues in the way that district health boards manage their registers but I need to be sure. There are some unexplained anomalies but I do not understand their importance. For example one copy of the Auckland District Health Board interests register in my possession contains a signed declaration from the chair a signed declaration from the deputy chair and even a signed declaration from Dr Bierre. But there is no signature curiously in respect of Dr Jackie Blue. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Can the Minister confirm that throughout this period he had a Ministry of Health watchdog attending district health board meetings in Auckland namely board adviser Graham Aitken; and did Mr Aitken ever advise the Ministry of Health or the Minister that Dr Bierre had stood down as an active board member because he was bidding for the half-billion-dollar Auckland District Health Board lab contract? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I recollect no such advice from Mr Aitken. Mr Aitken was involved very substantially in the service reconfiguration at the Auckland District Health Board and of course he played no part in the evaluation of the contract. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Which is correct—because one of two things is happening here—did Wayne Brown fail under the no-surprises policy to tell the Minister that one of his board members was standing down so he could bid for the Auckland District Health Board’s half-billion-dollar laboratory contract or is the Minister misleading the House because he was told this 6 months before he admitted it? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I will stand by my statement that when I read the court judgment I was surprised indeed. I did not know that Dr Bierre had been stood down. I did not know when he had been stood down and I did not know why he had been stood down. I do not recall being advised. I do recall being advised in July 2006—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member asked his question in silence. Would the Minister please be given an opportunity to address the question. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I stand by my remarks made many times in this House that I first became aware of the issue on receipt of a question from Dr Paul Hutchison I believe in July 2006. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: So how big does a district health board contract have to be before a district health board chairman is obliged to tell the Minister that one of his own board members is standing down from active duty so that he or she can bid for a contract being offered by that district health board—is it a billion dollars? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: There are quite a few things Mr Wayne Brown has not told me. He has not told me—and I did not find out myself until very recently—that Dr Jackie Blue in December 2004 failed to sign her conflict of interest declaration. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Would the Minister be surprised to learn that one of the senior Auckland District Health Board executives involved throughout the tendering process was Dr Dennis Jury who was also project sponsor for Dr Bierre’s 2004 MBA thesis on contracting out laboratory services; and was the Auckland District Health Board advised of this close association by one of its senior executives? 
Hon Member 
: That’s awful. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Oh that is bad is it? Well let me tell the member something else. When Dr Bierre approached Dr Dennis Jury in March 2005 asking: “Can I have some public money for my laboratory?” this same apparently close friend of Dr Bierre said: “No.” He said: “No. Go away and run your own laboratory without bothering the taxpayer.”—and that is a very clear part of the judgment. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Will he table all the advice he has received from the Ministry of Health and Wayne Brown on this matter; if not what has he got to hide? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: There is not much left to hide in this at all. This issue has had the light shone on it about as hard as it can be. The judge made his remarks early in the judgment that he had been presented with 12000 pages of things to look at—12000 pages means that there is not much left to hide that I am aware of. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does he understand the concern of Aucklanders who have no choice but to rely on the three district health boards and the chairs thereof for their lives and health when the Minister who is responsible for the funding of these district health boards cannot express confidence in the leadership in Auckland district health boards; and if the Minister cannot express confidence in the leadership of Auckland district health boards what possible chance have Aucklanders to have any confidence? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: If I can make it clear in words of one syllable for the member I would assert that this story has not yet finished being told.