Bishop ChrisCHRIS BISHOP (National): Well that was a very interesting long political rant from the Minister but I have a question for her around Kāinga Ora. Hon Dr Megan Woods: Good.CHRIS BISHOP: Good." she says. Well that's good—you can defend it. The briefing that has been released from 17 June from the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development (MHUD) to Kāinga Ora notes that Kāinga Ora debt will increase to $28.9 billion forecast in 2033. Matt Doocey: How much?CHRIS BISHOP: $28.9 billion by 2033. It will have $2.4 billion of accounting losses from July this year through to 2026 and negative net operating cash flow from the 2024-25 year. There is clearly concern from the MHUD officials—quite rightly I think—at these facts and I've only read out three of them from this very detailed briefing. The talking points provided for the Minister for her meeting with Kāinga Ora talk about financial sustainability and there is actually a suggestion in the briefing that Kāinga Ora may be breaching its obligations under the Crown Entities Act 2004 to be a financially sustainable Crown entity. I think this is the briefing that essentially led to the questions from my colleague Jan Logie around the home heating programme and accessibility improvements because it was that briefing that led to the suggestion that there may be cuts to various accessibility improvements which I think is a legitimate question from Ms Logie. So a couple of questions for the Minister: is she as concerned about the metrics in this briefing from her officials as they are and if she is what has she done about it subsequently with the Kāinga Ora and the MHUD officials? Can she give the House an update on that?Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Housing): The briefing the member is referring to was actually a piece of work that I instigated as Minister—as any responsible Minister would—around the financial sustainability of any agency that they have responsibility for. I think it's worth noting that this was a paper that was taking the 60-year - long view of financial sustainability of an agency. It asked the very fundamental question: if we do nothing if we just keep going down the track we are now what does that look like in the future? Given that we are a Government that is building that we are a Government that is investing and that we are growing the asset in this stage I wanted to dig deep into what it was. I think one of the interesting things when I read the media comments of shock and outrage about this from the member who's just resumed his seat is if he'd actually listened in the Estimates hearing the chief executive of Kāinga Ora shared all this information with the committee. It was really clearly laid out in the conversation that we had and so I was somewhat shocked to see the member's shock at that briefing as it came out because clearly this was a piece of work that had been going on for some time. As I intimated in an earlier contribution when you extract $580 million out of an organisation in dividend and fail to invest in an asset you don't redevelop housing; you're left with operating costs that are $70 million a year higher because of that failure to invest in the asset—not even adding to the asset but actually just maintaining basic asset-management practices around maintaining the assets that you do have. Of course a Minister has to ask what does the long-term funding sustainability look like what do we need to do in terms of rent maxima and what do we need to do in terms of the operating supplement and that is exactly the piece of work that is ongoing and that I continue to talk to officials from both Kāinga Ora and the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development about. I think in terms of asking what has happened as a consequence of that probably under-appreciates the rebuild of public housing in New Zealand that has had to go on for the five years that we have been in Government where you've had a sweated asset that hasn't been invested in and there hasn't been the thinking or the funding there to ensure that we do have an enduring housing system and that is not something this Government is interested in continuing."