Samuels Dover: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Samuels Dover: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:17031] 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS (Minister of State) 
: 
 I heard my name mentioned by my colleague John Carter in terms of some of his concerns that perhaps somebody foolishly would seek to block access to the beaches when in fact public access is provided for. He knows very well that if there is public access to the beach anybody who blocks that access breaks the law and could be in the case of Northland one of the first invitees to the Ngawha prison. Let me make it quite clear. This bill provides for public access for all New Zealanders Maori Pakeha or whoever to go down to the beach at Christmas time with their families and do the things they have been doing for the last 140 years. That member knows that if there is public access then any clown—and I have a few of them up there in Northland—who wants to block public access to the beach will be removed by the police as they should be. I warn them of that. My colleague John Carter used to be the clerk of the Hokianga County Council and we go back a long way in terms of by-laws. We know that if anybody blocks access along a public road it will be pokarekare ana for them. 
I want to bring up a couple of things. Ken Shirley talked about 10 percent. I am glad he knows his figures. I say to Mr Shirley that determination of territorial customary rights will be done by the High Court. The High Court will determine whether a Maori whanau or hapu is entitled to an aboriginal title that may reflect territorial customary rights and the negotiations that go on from there are spelt out in terms of the redress in the bill. It is not for anyone to say whether they will get 10 percent five percent or two percent.  
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: What do you say about this in the newspapers? 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: Perhaps the member should read the births and deaths column instead of reading the front page. He might understand a little bit more. There is a births and deaths column on the back page of the  
New Zealand Herald 
. He should read that and he will find out a little bit more; he will be educated. 
Members of the National Party who have been defrosted on coming out of the mortuary always froth a bit at the mouth when it comes to things to do with Maori especially when it is to do with recognition of Maori customary rights. All of a sudden their gums begin to froth up. Some people begin to defrost and some do not; some are probably there forever. 
When one is talking about Maori customary rights one is actually recognising a covenant—something that has been recognised right around the country. Members are jumping up and down and I hear members of the Green Party complaining about thresholds and benchmarks in terms of being able to obtain a customary rights order. I tell them that the issue is one that relates to whanau and hapu who have had a traditional and customary relationship with the foreshore and seabed for a long long time. It does not relate to Maori who have been sleeping under the marijuana plants and smoking a bit of hooch and who do not know what they are talking about.  
Metiria Turei 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson— 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: I am not referring to anybody in this Chamber. 
Metiria Turei 
: I take personal offence to the reference about people sleeping under marijuana trees which was a reference to the Greens. I ask that the member be required to withdraw and apologise for that unnecessary and very derogatory slur both against us and against those who may be homeless and sleeping under trees. It shows his clear disregard for the people of this country. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I thank the member for raising that. I did not take it that that was a reference to anyone in the Chamber or to any group in the Chamber. 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: I can assure the member that if I had referred to the Greens it would have been clear. I was not referring to the Greens. If they have a conscience about that it is their problem. 
Those who live beside the sea have a genuine right of application to the Maori Land Court and the High Court to have their territorial customary rights recognised. Someone living in Australia who has become Ngati Ranana—“Ngati Australian”—has no right at all. They have no basis for rights. I make that point loud and clear. Those rights are not de facto territorial customary rights. There are people who are genuine the whanau and the hapu who have held those customary rights mai ra ano. They have to be given opportunities under this legislation—and the opportunities are there. 
The legislation gives access and that is not only to the Maori Land Court. I hear some of these bush lawyers saying that there is no judicial process open to Maori. What is the Maori Land Court? That is part of the judicial process. Genuine people have to be given access not just to the Maori Land Court but also to the High Court. They also have that avenue for obtaining territorial customary rights. 
I say again to those who think they can go along with a bus ticket and get a territorial customary rights order to forget it. People have to be genuine; they have to have ties to the land. There are benchmarks and thresholds they have to prove and if they prove them they will get their territorial customary rights.