Ardern Jacinda: Royal Society of New Zealand Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Ardern Jacinda: Royal Society of New Zealand Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:673;Page:19872] 
JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) 
: 
 I am delighted to take a call on clause 12 because I need to correct my previous contribution. I had a slight mismatch there. I referred to James Belich as an honorary member but he is actually an honorary fellow. But one of the points that I have outstanding from my last contribution which I would love the member in the chair Grant Robertson to respond to is that I am still not entirely clear on how changing section 17(1)(b) as set out in clause 12 by omitting “science or technology” and substituting “science technology or the humanities” means that in practice a different set of honorary fellows will be included under the Royal Society. 
I would like to demonstrate that point by talking about some of the honorary fellows currently listed because at the moment in the legislation—and listed in more detail I think members will find by the Royal Society in its public space—honorary fellows are listed as being those who are seen to support the activities of the Royal Society. But they are not necessarily those whom we would deem to be—unlike perhaps the companions and the honorary members—contained just within the realm of the sciences. 
Glancing through the list of the honorary fellows already listed I was intrigued to see that a number of those whom I consider to be within the area of the humanities are already included. I am intrigued to know whether this provision is merely a legislative change for the sake of consistency with all of the other definitional changes rather than something that in practice will change the types of honorary fellows that we already have. 
As I was saying before when glancing through the list of honorary fellows—strictly those affected by clause 12—I saw that there were a number within the sciences whom I am ashamed to admit I was not familiar with. Again I ask the member in charge of the bill Grant Robertson whether he could explain to me the perceived role of the honorary fellows. If that role is the promotion of the sciences and the work of the Royal Society I would be really interested in that. I like to consider myself fairly engaged not necessarily strictly in the world of the scientists but with those eminent New Zealanders who are working at the cutting edge. If that is the role of the honorary fellows I would like to see an enhancement of that perhaps with more opportunity for our honorary fellows to be present in our schools. 
Scientists in Schools was an excellent programme—that is a small plug from Labour; it was a Labour Government initiative that was scrapped by National. Perhaps we could put our honorary fellows into our schools as a way of promoting the sciences. We are sixth in the OECD for sciences when we are at school but something happens when young New Zealanders exit our education system into optional education particularly tertiary education. We stop studying science but studying science is what we need to do if we are going to be at the cutting edge in growing our economy. 
I will list some of the honorary fellows that some members may be familiar with. I was glancing through and saw that not only is James Belich an honorary fellow but that Alan Bollard is an honorary fellow as is Sally Casswell—and again I would see her as dabbling a little beyond strictly the sciences. Members will know that she is a public health advocate who works in the alcohol space in particular. David Fergusson is also a fellow and obviously there is a bit more of the sciences in there with his work on the longitudinal studies of growing up in New Zealand. He has made a lasting contribution from New Zealand’s perspective to the world of science. 
Sir Paul Callaghan is a fellow. Most members of the Committee will know who Sir Paul Callaghan is because he has been recognised not just as a scientist or as an honorary Fellow of the Royal Society but as New Zealander of the Year. I think that that has enabled him to be lifted into the broader public consciousness and that is fantastic. Some members will be interested to know that he is particularly well-renowned for his nuclear development resonance his pulsed gradient spin echo research his dynamic nuclear magnetic resonance microscopy his scattering formulisation for pulsed gradient spin echo nuclear magnetic resonance and his pulsed gradient spin echo electron spin resonance in a quasi - one-dimensional conductor. Yet if I ask— 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member’s time has expired. 
Hon Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Give her more. She needs more time. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I call the honourable member Jacinda Ardern. 
JACINDA ARDERN 
: Thank you very much. I think it actually might have been the Minister who enabled me to take my second call. I have just given a list of the areas that one of the honorary fellows is well-renowned for within the science field. If I asked members of the Committee what Sir Paul Callaghan had been recognised for I wonder whether they would have mentioned anything on that list—the pulsed gradient spin echo electron spin resonance in a quasi - one-dimensional conductor in particular. 
I was not aware that in a global sense Sir Paul Callaghan’s work on nuclear development resonance was something that he has been recognised for. If I ask members of this Committee what they recognise this honorary fellow for what would it be? I think it would be his contribution to the debate on the role of science within New Zealand and within the New Zealand economy. Off the back of being awarded the title of New Zealander of the Year he has embarked on a bit of a roadshow around New Zealand talking about the fact that in his view we currently choose to be poor in New Zealand. We choose to be poor because we invest in a low-wage economy. 
As an honorary fellow Sir Paul sees his role—as has been set out by the Royal Society on the website and within the legislation—as supporting the activities of the Royal Society. He has become a true promoter of science as a way to grow New Zealand’s economy and as a way for us to become a wealthier nation and a nation in which we can grab onto the things that New Zealanders are proud of such as an entrepreneurial spirit and the idea that we do not have to be the best at everything but can be the best at a few small things. We can be the best not at building health equipment but at building sleep apnoea equipment—the kinds of things that if we multiply them over hundred times suddenly we turn our economy round. 
As an honorary fellow as recognised by the Royal Society I am sure that that was probably a starting point for Sir Paul Callaghan to take on the mantra of not just being the scientist who investigated pulsed gradient echo electron spin resonance in a quasi - one-dimensional conductor but of taking on the role of supporting the activities of the Royal Society as a promoter of its work. I would have liked to see us embedding in this legislation the kind of spirit that Sir Paul Callaghan has taken upon himself as an honorary fellow. I am referring to the idea of being a promoter as well as an instigator of other young Kiwis not only becoming members of the Royal Society and potentially future honorary fellows but simply going on to become people like Moana Mackey—the professional members of the Royal Society—those who learn the sciences and stay in the sciences in New Zealand for the benefit of all of us. 
Currently we are losing too many of those potential future honorary fellows. I would like the member in the chair Grant Robertson to tell me whether it was ever considered that we include in the legislation the tasks that an honorary fellow might pick up or the kind of role they might have because currently this notion of supporting the activities of the Royal Society is rather vague. 
I would like to see a greater extension of their role in New Zealand as promoters of science given as Sir Paul Callaghan pointed out the enormous contribution it could make to our future wealth our income development and our creation of jobs not just through things like Labour’s research and development tax credit which incentivises the private sector to invest in the sciences thereby creating jobs for our future honorary fellows but by promoting New Zealand on the world stage where he is already recognised. The honorary fellows I already listed—David Fergusson Sally Casswell Sir Paul Callaghan James Belich and Alan Bollard—all have some international recognition. 
Again are honorary fellows meant to support the activities domestically or as set out in clause 12 are they intended to stand on the global stage almost as ambassadors of the Royal Society of New Zealand demonstrating to the world the huge innovation that we can achieve in New Zealand despite being a small country? Taking the passion and ability that is demonstrated at primary and secondary schools putting it on the global stage and promoting ourselves is for me the essence of what I would like to see these honorary fellows doing. At the moment we have very confined clauses and they do not really express the full potential of the honorary fellow. I would be interested in the views of the member in the chair.