Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10237] 
3.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Does he stand by the Acting Minister of Health’s answer in the House of 15 May 2007 “I am informed that the three Auckland district health boards have house officer vacancies … estimated at less than 2 percent … I am also advised that it is not expected that the overall shortage will worsen in the next quarter.”; if so what is the latest information he has on the next quarter? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 Yes I do. I was advised this morning that the gaps in the rosters—that is positions not filled by permanent house officers or by locums—whilst they vary across shifts are still about 2 percent. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why is the Government being so evasive about the true level of the junior doctor vacancies in New Zealand when this leaked memo to all chief executives of district health boards in New Zealand says: “New Zealand is currently facing a huge shortage of junior doctors which has been gradually increasing over the last 7 years. As at the 2nd of May the Auckland hospitals had vacancy rates of 18 to 23 percent for house officers in the third quarter predictions for the fourth quarter vacancies approach 40 to 50 percent and these numbers are mirrored in some other hospitals throughout New Zealand.”? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The fact of the matter is that the number of doctors employed by Waitemata District Health Board and by other Auckland district health boards—Waitemata is where the problem is thought by some to be most acute—has been rising steadily every year this Government has been in Government and will continue to rise including from next Sunday when that district hospital board’s funding increases by 8 percent. 
Ann Hartley 
: Have there been any increases in doctor numbers in New Zealand hospitals over recent years; if so what are the details? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Yes there have been. There has been an increase of 1400 doctors in the last 6 years. That is a significant increase by anyone’s standards. For Waitemata District Health Board supposedly the problem district health board the increase in the number of doctors has been more than significant; it has been dramatic. By trawling through Waitemata’s recent history and making adjustments for methodology the number of doctors employed by Waitemata has increased from 320 6 years ago to 570 doctors today—from 320 doctors to 570 doctors. That is a 78 percent increase in doctors in that district health board in 6 years. Of course there is a 2 percent vacancy rate now but that needs to be measured against a 78 percent increase in the last 6 years. This is the sort of improvement that can happen when a Government decides to invest in health and invest in health professionals. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why is the Minister saying that the vacancy rate is only 2 percent when this document prepared for every chief executive of a district health board in New Zealand shows that the junior doctor vacancy rate is at the moment 10 times what he is saying and it is predicted to be 50 percent in the next few months; and is that why representatives of his district health boards are about to fly over to Britain to try to recruit 30 doctors to try to fix this problem? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Indeed I can confirm that New Zealand district health boards are very interested in the fact that medical unemployment is now arising in Britain. If we can secure the services of well-trained British doctors as a result well and good I say. In respect of this business about a 20 percent vacancy rate the member is talking about something different from what I am talking about. In fact the member may care to reflect that those who are doing locums are the same junior doctors who would be permanently employed if they wished to be. What those junior doctors are doing is trading less job security for more money. 
Heather Roy 
: In respect of hospitals just how important is Labour’s employment law when Hutt District Health Board house surgeons have been told they cannot take any leave contrary to employment law because of the house surgeon shortage and house surgeons at Capital and Coast District Health Board are allowed to take leave but management then directs senior doctors to pressure the house surgeons again against the law to cover gaps above and beyond their normal working hours? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Assertions are made easily in the health sector and they come from the opposite side of the House each day apparently. We now have an assertion of a crisis in one district health board from the National Party when the facts show that there has been a 78 percent increase in doctors in the last 6 years. It is hard to manufacture a crisis out of that. The member has made a couple of assertions unsupported by evidence which may or may not be true. How would I know? All I have to say to the member is that district health boards obey New Zealand law including New Zealand employment law. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Who should New Zealanders believe— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The level of intervention is rising again in the House. Would members please keep it at an acceptable level. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Who should New Zealanders believe: the management of district health boards who are the people who run our hospitals and who are saying that the workforce crisis in New Zealand is deepening and that health care services will be affected by a 50 percent vacancy amongst junior doctors in the next quarter or the Minister of Health who has been so evasive in trying to admit that there is a major problem facing hospital services in New Zealand? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: District health boards in Auckland advised me about a month ago that they think they will walk into a problem of a shortage of doctors. Maybe that is— 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: You’re going to look so stupid when you see this. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: They in fact wrote me a letter about a month ago to tell me; presumably that is the letter the member has. The ministry’s response to the district health boards is: “Well what are you going to do about it? What are your contingency plans?”. Those contingency plans have been received. They are regarded by the ministry as thoroughly satisfactory and in-depth but the member continues to assert that we have a crisis when it is difficult to see what it might be. 
Jo Goodhew 
: Can the Minister confirm that the likely cause of increasing numbers of doctors opting to be locums is the high degree of industrial unrest in the sector and those doctors being undervalued and not listened to by this Labour Government? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: My guess is that there probably is a linkage between industrial unrest and assertions. It is quite interesting to look at what the assertions about a crisis are in this workforce and match them up against what is going on in the industrial relations scene at the time. For example we had a report a couple of weeks ago that said there was a 40 percent turnover in nurses. When we take a little look to get to 40 percent—it is nothing like 40 percent; it is not even half of 40 percent—we have to add in everything. For example we have to add in the fact that nurses who are in their first year of training would move from one run to another to get themselves a little bit of experience and every time those nurses change their run it is called a resignation and a re-employment. If we are to do that we can get ourselves bewilderingly large figures. Sometimes that happens in health. My interest is ensuring that we get to the truth. 
Jo Goodhew 
: Does the Minister realise he could save heaps of the money that he is spending sending recruiters overseas to lure home New Zealand doctors just by posting to those doctors the press cuttings from Trevor Mallard’s announcement of tax cuts in 2008? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The member draws a long bow wastes a lot of parliamentary time and gives me a question for which I have no responsibility.