6. Question No. 6—FinanceNICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 6—Finance6. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: Does he agree with Otago University economist Dennis Wesselbaum that the Government's income insurance scheme will increase unemployment increase the duration of unemployment reduce income increase inequality and lead to higher inflation"; if so how can he justify asking Kiwis to pay for it?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): In answer to the first part of the question no I do not agree with those comments made in December 2021. As I noted yesterday we're one of the few countries in the OECD that doesn't have a scheme like this. Many countries have decades-long experience with social insurance schemes and they generally believe that they are a fundamental part of a social security framework.Nicola Willis: How does he reconcile his statement yesterday that details of this scheme are yet to be worked out with the commitment made in this year's Budget forecast for jobs tax levies to be collecting $4.7 billion by 2026?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The characterisation the member makes is once again incorrect for what is a social insurance scheme. The member would also note that all of that money then recycles back out; that's why it's called a levy.Nicola Willis: Does he think a New Zealander earning $60000 a year facing the fastest-rising prices in 32 years can afford to pay $834 more tax each year?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As has already been indicated both yesterday and today the scheme is not designed to come into force until at least 2024 or 2025. A person earning $60000 a year would be paying $16 into the scheme per week and would receive should they need to draw down on it $780 a week. This is a scheme designed to support people who earn around $60000 a year who don't have redundancy agreements who don't have health insurance and who don't have income insurance. This is a scheme common around the world as part of a social security framework.Nicola Willis: Will he listen to New Zealanders who have spoken out against the jobs tax including 15000 Kiwis who have already signed the petition National launched yesterday or is he determined to force through this tax no matter what?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Here's a deal for the member: if the member wants to debate the question of whether or not New Zealand should have an income insurance scheme like most other countries in the OECD then let's debate that on the facts. This is a scheme common around the world. It's a scheme to fill a gap that the National Party felt the need to fill the gap of after the Christchurch earthquakes. And when Mr Luxon went on his Go Swiss adventure in 2017 he and his colleagues in the business community supported this. The scheme has been designed with Business New Zealand and the Council of Trade Unions; it is an important part of a future social security framework.Nicola Willis: Does he understand that asking families to give up more of their pay for his pet project will make it harder for them to pay their bills and build their own savings and why is he prioritising his scheme over their needs?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What this scheme is about is making sure that hard-working people who lose their job through no fault of their own like a redundancy or an illness like cancer actually get some support to be able to get a new job to be able to retrain. The member can continue to mischaracterise the scheme but this is a scheme designed to help working New Zealanders."