4. Question No. 4—TransportHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of TransportQuestion No. 4—Transport4. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister of Transport: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions about the Clean Car Programme?Hon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister of Transport): Yes particularly that the clean car import standard will result in average fuel savings for families of nearly $7000 over the lifetime of their vehicles and stop over 3 million tonnes of carbon pollution going into our atmosphere. Hon Michael Woodhouse: Can he confirm there are no petrol diesel or hybrid seven-seaters or vans currently on the market that meet his standard; only plug-ins which the Ministry of Transport says costs between $20000 and $40000 more?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Across the different types of makes and models there are a range of vehicles on the market. I do note that one of the points of the standard is that it supports importers to bring in a wider range of low-emissions vehicles. That is one of the policy intentions of the policy and one of the reasons that New Zealand currently has one of the dirtiest fleets in the world and the reasons that New Zealanders don't have access to those cleanest vehicles is because as the Prime Minister said we are one of only three countries in the world without such a standard.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Why did he ignore Ministry of Transport advice in December 2020 that a 2025 time frame would disrupt vehicle supply in the short term push up vehicle prices and slow the turnover of the existing fleet"?SPEAKER: OK I'm going to ask the member to rephrase the question. Maybe if he said "Did he ignore … and if so why?" he would get there.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Thank you Mr Speaker. Did the Minister ignore Ministry of Transport advice that a 2025 time frame "would disrupt vehicle supply in the short term push up vehicle prices and slow the turnover of the existing fleet" and if so why?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: Mr Speaker a very well-crafted question and in answer to it what I can say to the member is that he's commenting on a piece of policy advice that was received in late 2020 which doesn't fully reflect the decisions that Cabinet actually made on the policy and a range of changes that were made to the policy after that point. I note from the regulatory impact assessment that officials prepared it says "The available evidence suggests that if price rises do occur they are likely to be minimal and over time will reduce." It also notes that "A meta-analysis of CO2 standards in OECD and non-OECD countries suggests that they do not necessarily lead to noticeable price increases."Hon Michael Woodhouse: Well in respect of that answer does he agree that the advice quoted in the previous supplementary was on a 2025 time frame and did the Government implement a 2025 time frame?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: It is correct that the Government implemented a 2025 time frame but we made a number of other changes based on advice and consultation which means that the policy can be more effectively implemented. These include changes such as halving the fee levels that were originally proposed and consulted upon making changes to the way that the targets worked to have a split target between light vehicles and commercial vehicles and allowing overachievement to be banked and transferred. Hon Michael Woodhouse: Has the Minister approached the Prime Minister after she said yesterday that LDV will have an electric ute in the next 12 to 24 months to inform her that there is no confirmed date for markets that drive on the left-hand side and their electric ute is two-wheel drive?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: I can confirm that on public record both LDV and the sector have confirmed that LDV's intention is to bring such a hybrid vehicle on to the New Zealand market in the next 12 to 24 months and that a range of other importers are working very hard to do the same.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Will a new Toyota Hilux cost more than $12300 more in 2025 as a result of the combined effects of the Clean Car Programme?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: The member's supposition is entirely hypothetical but I do not expect that to be the case at all. The member as the Prime Minister said is misunderstanding how the Clean Car Standard works which takes an averaging approach across the fleet that any importer brings into the country at any one time. I want to note a comment that was made on record which I think is correct which says that "A move from petrol and diesel to low emission transport is a natural evolution and it is our aim to encourage that switch sooner rather than later." I agree with that comment made by the Hon Simon Bridges a few years ago. The difference is that this Government's actually bringing in policies to bring it about.Hon David Parker: Is the Minister aware that car firms like Toyota don't like handing across market share or money to competitors like Ford and therefore one of the behavioural responses he expects as Minister of Transport is that the vehicles that Toyota brings in will be aiming to meet the average that is enabled by his Clean Car Standard?Hon MICHAEL WOOD: That is quite correct and it's inherent in the design of the Clean Car Standard that we're providing importers with a tool to go back to manufacturers to actually bring in cleaner vehicles into New Zealand and it will be in their interest to do so. Again I make the point that every country in the OECD except Australia New Zealand and Russia currently has one of these schemes and the reason why New Zealand has one of the dirtiest fleets in the world is because we don't. If we don't take action on this issue we will become the dumping ground for the world's dirtiest vehicles and New Zealanders don't want that.David Seymour: Do he or other members of his Cabinet often have to get basic microeconomic lessons from David Parker?SPEAKER: Oh no no no no no—not a chance. [Interruption] Well and I mean I have recently reflected on the improving relationship with Mr Seymour—without commenting on the relationship suggested yesterday—but I think Mr Seymour did know that that question was out of order when he asked it.David Seymour: No.SPEAKER: Well I'm surprised."