9. Question No. 9—Social Development and EmploymentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 9—Social Development and Employment9. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many more people were in receipt of a main benefit in the December 2021 quarter compared to the September 2017 quarter as measured by the Ministry of Social Development's quarterly benefit data releases?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): The difference between December quarter 2021 and the September 2017 quarter was 90952. However the member will know that it's better to compare the same quarters and that in the December quarter there is often a seasonal spike largely due to students leaving study. When you compare December quarters for the same period the difference is 78384. The member will also know that at the beginning of the pandemic Treasury forecast benefit numbers would peak at 487500 in January 2021. Due to the Government's quick actions to support businesses through the wage subsidy and our investment in employment supports the highest number of people receiving a main benefit was actually 391227 in January 2021 96273 less people than forecast.Hon Louise Upston: Why are almost 90000 more people dependent on welfare today than when Labour took office four years ago?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think it is fair to say that the pandemic has had a major impact on the numbers of people that have come on to benefit. It's not the sole reason though. As I've said in the House before we do need to look at other figures rather than just the raw benefit numbers. If we look at the percentage of working-age population on benefit in December 2021 that was 11.7 percent. If we think about after the global financial crisis in December 2010 that was 13.1 percent.Hon Louise Upston: Why are there 66000 more Kiwis on the jobseeker benefit than four years ago while at the same time Labour is bragging about low unemployment?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We're not bragging. The reality is that the household labour force survey was recently released and it showed that our unemployment rate in New Zealand is 3.2 percent. That is one of the best unemployment rates currently in the OECD. We have also said in this House that there isn't always a direct alignment between the unemployment figure and actual benefit numbers. However what is really clear is that Treasury had forecast a much darker predicament with respect to benefit numbers. We continue to invest in employment and upskilling and training because this Government is committed to keeping New Zealanders in work.Hon Louise Upston: Why are businesses crying out for staff when there are now 116000 people who have been on the dole for more than a year?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: One of the areas that was under-invested in when we first took office was actually upskilling and training for New Zealanders. So quite often where there is a gap with regards to the workers being able to step into roles it's because they don't necessarily have the skills to be able to take up the jobs that are available. This Government since we came into office has been absolutely focused on investing in that space; that's why we see that over 40000 people have now taken up Apprenticeship Boost places. The numbers of people that have gone into Mana in Mahi the numbers of people who have gone into He Poutama Rangatahi—it's an investment that we wish had been done by the previous Government for the nine years that they were in but we are focused on making sure that we do our bit.Hon Louise Upston: Why are there now more people on benefit for longer when unemployment is only 3.2 percent?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: If we look at some of the figures—for instance the numbers around those that have been on benefit between three to six months or six months to a year—we've actually been doing a relatively good job at turning around things so that people are supported into employment immediately. There are some people that have been on benefit for a longer period of time and National experienced the same thing. Our way of addressing it isn't punitive; it is to try and invest in those areas where we can support them to get the skills and training that they need to be able to take up employment.