Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 12 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:7704. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
11. 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does she stand by all of her decisions as Minister of Education; if not which if any particular decisions does she now regret? 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would just like to ask you whether Standing Order 383(2) and Speaker’s ruling 176/5 will apply in this case or whether you will adopt the 2007 ruling regarding informing the House when the primary answer is longer than generally acceptable? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: At this stage Mr Mallard I accept we wait until we at least hear what the answer is to the primary question. 
Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education) 
: 
 Tena koe Mr Speaker. Yes in the circumstances and with the advice received at the time. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did she read all of the relevant Cabinet papers before she agreed that Novopay would be rolled out; if not why not? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: The primary question asks whether I regret the decision. Clearly with hindsight the decision in respect of Novopay was not the best decision and it has created incredible problems for everyone. That hindsight would have served the Labour Ministers of Education who progressed and signed the contract and for whom that member was an adviser. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was actually a very specific supplementary question. The Minister has not addressed it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I invite the member to ask the question again. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did she read all of the relevant Cabinet papers before she agreed that Novopay would be rolled out; if not why not? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: All of the Cabinet papers to my understanding go back to 2005. I read the papers that were relevant to the decision that was put before me in June and July 2012. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think it is a re-run of the previous point of order. The question was on all of the Cabinet papers. She has indicated that she has read some of them but she has not given an answer as to whether she has read all of them. You might want to do a Dr Lockwood Smith and interpret she is saying no but I think she should probably say it herself. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I do not want to do a Dr Smith but I think on listening to the question—and we are all able to listen to the question and then the answer—by implication it is fairly clear to me that the Minister has not read all of the Cabinet papers dating back to 2005. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did she read the paper that indicated that as risk mitigation the new payroll system would be run in parallel with the old system and that there would be an 8-month staggered implementation in five distinct areas avoiding a “high-risk big-bang implementation”; if so why did she agree to a roll-out of the system without that risk mitigation being in place? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I did not hear the entirety of the question but the decision— 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am happy to repeat the question for the Minister. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think in the circumstances that is fair. It was members behind the Minister who made it difficult for the Minister to hear. I would be grateful if they would also maintain a level of silence so the question can be clearly heard. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did she read the paper that indicated that as risk mitigation the new pay system would be run in parallel with the old system and that there would be an 8-month staggered implementation in five distinct areas avoiding a “high-risk big-bang implementation”; if so why did she agree to a roll-out without that risk mitigation being in place? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I read a range of papers and at the time I was confident that I had all of the advice that I needed to make the decision at the time. But as I have said hindsight is a wonderful thing and I took the recommendations of all of the officials and all of the external consultants who were advising me and I read the papers and that was the decision we took at the time. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Does she stand by her decision to sign off the implementation of Novopay despite the fact that there were 142 known faults with the system before it went live or before she signed off on it going live that contingencies initially put in place had been removed and that the phased implementation initially proposed had been abandoned in favour of immediate full implementation; if so why? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: As I have already said I do stand by the decision in the circumstances of the time and the advice that was offered and the papers that were before me in terms of the independent and external advisers who offered the advice. At the time I considered it to be the best decision. In hindsight it is clear that better decisions could have been made but hindsight could serve all of us better as well. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Was she aware that the Ministry of Education was considering breaking the contract with Novopay provider Talent2 only 2 weeks before she signed off the implementation; if not why not? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: I was not advised of that. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did she ask for or receive any advice on extending the contingency arrangement that was in place with Datacom until after Novopay had gone live before she signed it off; if not why not? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: All of these questions are interesting and germane and that is why the Minister responsible for Novopay has ordered a ministerial inquiry that will allow this House to have the detail that this member is securing. I look forward to that occurring as well. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was a very specific question and one that the Minister is responsible for. I know that there is an inquiry that has been called for. That does not mean that she is not accountable to the House. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I invite the member to ask the question again. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did she ask for or receive any advice on extending the contingency arrangement that was in place with Datacom until after Novopay had gone live; if not why not? 
Hon HEKIA PARATA 
: My recollection is I did indeed ask ministry officials what other contingency might be available and what we could do in order to ensure that and I was given advice at that time that we could and should proceed with the contract as it was being put before me by officials.