Sepuloni CarmelJAN LOGIE (Green): Thank you Mr Chair. I'd like to speak to my Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) and pick up on some of the comments made by the Minister earlier specifically in relation around Te Tiriti clauses and to clarify that when I was talking about the Waitangi Tribunal ruling it was around the functioning of Oranga Tamariki. That report came out last year. It is very recent but before the policy work on this piece of legislation and it was I would have thought an essential thing that we actually address those recommendations and rulings of the Waitangi Tribunal. I want to note that that point about the broader clause in the Kāhui Group—I acknowledge that they recommended more specific rulings.But I also noticed from the Auckland University Aotearoa New Zealand Indigenous Peoples and the Law report Time to Taihoa that they noted that the Waitangi Tribunal has found the specific definitive types of Treaty clauses to be problematic especially when the legislative provisions that these clauses claim will give effect to the Crown's Te Tiriti obligations fall short of what is guaranteed under Te Tiriti. I think from the specificity of the Waitangi Tribunal's rulings last year around tino rangatiratanga over kāinga the way that the current Treaty provisions are worded falls short and I would love to hear the Minister's outline of how that does not fall short when it has no reference to upholding tino rangatiratanga over kāinga.I also want to address the point made by the Minister of the complexity of this when the Ombudsman comes into play and we heard that advice from officials that we couldn't have a general clause because of the Ombudsman's independence. Well my understanding is that the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment has the same status as the Ombudsman as an Officer of Parliament and the Environment Act that set up that office includes reference to the Treaty in the purpose section. Actually you could argue that it is in the exact control of Parliament to be able to make these decisions and put these clauses in place in that Officers of Parliament are closer to the Crown than local government who also have provisions for honouring Te Tiriti.Also one of our SOPs is around ensuring that the key priority is the need to support outcomes for Māori children young people and their whānau and prioritise rather than just recognise the importance of children and young people's families whānau hapū iwi and communities. I understand that the Government's position on this is wanting to maintain that direct focus just on children and just to say that this is a very longstanding conversation and point of conflict between the Crown and Māori where children are not seen as separate from whānau from hapū from iwi and that harm to one is harm to the other. What has been so integral to the damage that has been done to Māori by our so-called care system is the failure of our systems to acknowledge that symbiotic relationship and the failure to actually even understand what whānau is. Unless we prioritise that connection then it is very hard for me to understand how we are not just going to keep replicating those same patterns.Also the other point in my last minute here is the question for the Minister around this. I understand New Zealand hasn't ratified the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People but I understand we have signed that declaration. Again it is in the power of this Parliament and the Government to make a proposal for us to ensure that that is part of the focus of our agencies in this area because—and it's so important—it is the history of using child protection as a tool of colonisation. I hope that we all recognise that by now and the importance of having systems in place to undo that from our systems. It can't be passive; it needs to be active and it needs strong assertions to make those changes.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Without wanting to be repetitive I did explain perhaps three times—but I'm going to go into this again with specific reference to the Supplementary Order Paper put up by the member as well—how we came to have the Treaty provisions that are in the bill that we do. We had the Kāhui Group who advised on what would be appropriate given this set of very unique circumstances where you have an Ombudsman who isn't part of the Crown; you have the Children and Young People's Commission who is a Crown entity; and then you have the Independent Children's Monitor who is a departmental agency but with independence written into the bill. The provisions that were put in place were specifically crafted for this particular situation and certainly as I said earlier the Waitangi Tribunal has not ruled against these Treaty provisions.I want to also refer to the member's Supplementary Order Paper that I just received a copy of. The member specifically refers to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities—which we've already covered with regards to what the Government is proposing—but also includes reference to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. As I've already said in the House it hasn't been ratified by us. But on top of that—Jan Logie: It's been signed.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The member has said that we've signed it. It is still being consulted on here in Aotearoa so it would be premature to mention it when we have not actually finished consultation and ratified it as a nation. Mr Chair I'm sorry for being repetitive but just sharing that again.