edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Brownlee Gerry: Election of Speaker 
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Brownlee Gerry: Election of Speaker 
[Sitting date: 31 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7679. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I am requested by His Excellency the Governor-General to inform the House that it is His Excellency’s desire that the House should proceed to choose one of its members as its Speaker and in accordance with section 12 of the Constitution Act 1986 present that person at Government House at 4 p.m. today for His Excellency’s confirmation. 
The CLERK 
: Honourable members the House must now proceed to choose a Speaker. Are there nominations?
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the matter can probably be easily dealt with. I will check up to make sure. It seems to me that the member makes a reasonable point that the House is the master of its own destiny so I am happy to put the leave. Leave is sought for—
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If that is the way you go then I would suggest that we go through Speakers’ rulings one by one seeing whether the House wishes to reconfirm them because that is where we are getting to. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. Order! I think on this issue that it is—[ 
Interruption 
] That is not very helpful I say to the right honourable gentleman. Leave is easily denied. I will check further to check on the specific issue around questions. Certainly there are some limits around what can be covered by leave but I am not aware of any reason why this should be limited. I think—the point that has been made to me by the Clerk is a very good point. If leave had been sought for the question to be transferred to another Minister that would be the more appropriate way for the leave to be put to the House because I am concerned about you know leave being sought for specific questions to be answered by one or another person. So if the leave is rephrased I am happy to put it. The Rt Hon Winston Peters.
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My understanding is that the House is actually the master of its own decisions and by leave can essentially do anything. The Rt Hon Winston Peters sought leave for a question to be transferred back again. My view is that you have got to put that to the House.
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member cannot seek leave for another person to answer a question. Look—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! This matter is easily dealt with. I have allowed the House time to explore it. The Government had an absolute right to transfer this question and the member should proceed with his question.
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 We can solve this problem because the expert on this question is here and I seek leave for the Minister of Education to answer the question.
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Look I will hear briefly from the Rt Hon Winston Peters because there is no need to take up more time of the House.
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 If you were to accept Mr Hipkins’ point Mr Speaker you would deny the opportunity that Mr Hipkins has to ask that direct question.
Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I will not go on further on this subject but I do want to raise just one last point on this matter. If the Minister disagreed with the view put forward by the State Services Commissioner the only person really who can answer that is the Minister of Education not the Minister of State Services so you have actually just reinforced the point that I was trying to make. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: Speaking to that point of order. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no no. I do not think I need any further assistance— 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: Well I think it is an important one because we do not want to establish precedent for the House. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I will hear from the Leader of the House indeed. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! Order! I will hear from the Leader of the House.
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7606. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is an interesting point the member makes. There is a fundamental principle that questions can be transferred—and the member is quite correct—except where that would be objectionable in so far as the Minister it has been transferred away from is the only person who could possibly have the information. It is interesting though to look—the member in raising his point of order referred to the material provided to validate the question. He will recollect from that material that the view that there had been strained relations was the view of the State Services Commissioner and therefore one cannot necessarily automatically assume it is the view also of the Minister. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! No no. The validation contained the view of the State Services Commissioner. I had a look at this because when it was transferred I suspected that the point may be raised. Given that the view the member is referring to is the view of the State Services Commissioner in addition to the point raised by the honourable Leader of the House that the State Services Commissioner is responsible for these matters it seems not unreasonable that the question could be transferred to the Minister responsible the Minister of State Services.
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7606. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I think the first point is that the Opposition has relied in getting this question on the sheet on statements that were not made by the Minister but by the other party. Therefore they are of an allegatory nature. But it is a well-known and established precedent that the employment relationship with a chief executive is with the State Services Commissioner and it is therefore appropriate that the Minister of State Services is the one who would answer in matters of such a breakdown. Otherwise you could have chief executives making all sorts of allegations about Ministers and then the Opposition assuming that that gave it carte blanche to ask those Ministers any questions it likes.
Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7606. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wish to raise a point of order with you under Speakers’ ruling 151/5 relating to the transfer of this question. I will let you look that one up but while you do that this question was originally set down to the Minister of Education. In setting it down to the Minister of Education we needed to provide some authentication for raising “strained relations” in the primary question. The authentication that we provided made it very clear that the strained relations being referred to were between the Minister of Education and the Secretary for Education. The wording was negotiated with the Office of the Clerk once we had presented that authentication to them to make it clear where we were going with the question. Speakers’ ruling 151/5 prevents the transfer of a question where only one Minister or the Minister that the question had originally been put to could be expected to have the knowledge in order to answer the question and the issues around that. A breakdown in a relationship between a Minister and a chief executive is really something that only the Minister whose relationship has broken down can be expected to answer for. Therefore the transfer of this question to the Minister of State Services seems to be an abuse of the transfer process in that it is allowing a Minister to escape answering for their own actions and the breakdown of the relationship with their own chief executive.
Wagner Nicky: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Wagner Nicky: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7605. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
10. 
NICKY WAGNER (National—Christchurch Central) 
 to the  
Minister responsible for the Earthquake Commission 
: What progress has been made in the repair of homes in Canterbury by the EQR Repair Programme? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister responsible for the Earthquake Commission) 
: 
 I am pleased to report to the House that 30748 homes have been completed under the Earthquake Commission Canterbury Home Repair Programme. The total expenditure on this project now exceeds $1 billion. These are homes that have damage costing more than $15000 but less than the $100000 cap. In addition more than 47000 emergency repairs have been completed and 18000 heating units have been installed. There are approximately 84000 of the 180000 houses in Christchurch in this programme which means that now about one-third of those repairs have been completed. 
Nicky Wagner 
: How many houses does he expect to be repaired in 2013? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The programme is now repairing in excess of 2000 houses each month. It would hope to have completed over half the required repairs by the end of this year. As building standards and foundation designs have become clearer with the ground settling work will increase on repairs exceeding $50000. These projects will take a little longer but Fletcher EQR should complete in excess of 50000 repairs by the end of this year. 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: Does he stand by the Fletcher EQR repair strategy for damaged homes with asbestos in light of the medical officer of health describing it as a future “landmine”; if so why? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I have to very clearly say that I think the medical officer of health may have been misled as to the extent of the problem when he made his statements.
Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Ardern Jacinda: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7600. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
7. 
JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his statement “I am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty”? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Does he stand by his statement on  
Firstline  
this morning when asked about child poverty that “there are … isolated examples that are being reported of a child being hungry …”; if so how many isolated cases are there? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I cannot give the member the exact number but in relation to all of the children who go to school that number would be relatively small. But the Government has been aware of that. That is why I have extended the contribution to Fruit in Schools that is why we have extended the money we give to KidsCan and that is why we have supported Fonterra’s milk in schools programme. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Does he agree with the charity Variety that children in poverty in New Zealand should be assisted through a $1 a day - style sponsorship programme; if so will he be sponsoring a child? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well firstly I welcome what Variety is doing. We welcome the private sector and not-for-profits actually helping New Zealand families. It is not new; that particular programme might be but there are other great examples of charities. The Government needs partners to work alongside it. The Government itself is doing a huge number of things in this area. Just for the member’s education in case she has forgotten the Government for instance has rolled out the Warm Up New Zealand: Heat Smart programme for a lot of New Zealanders. It has increased the funding for early childhood education. It is running a very extensive rheumatic fever programme. It has now ensured that there are free doctors’ visits and after-hours visits for 6-year-olds. It has improved maternity services— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That is well beyond the question asked. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: Does he believe that the two out of five children living in poverty in the homes of families where their parents are in work should have to rely on charity to survive? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: No. It would be my preference that they would not. That is why the Government has supported Working for Families and supports the in-work tax credit. But I simply make this one point because I think it is a fair point around the overall debate of the member. In 2007 this country posted a $7 billion surplus. At the time what was reported in terms of the number of children likely to be living in poverty was somewhere between 170000 and 240000. So when we had a $7 billion surplus we had up to a quarter of a million New Zealand children in poverty. So this issue ain’t new.
McClay Todd: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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McClay Todd: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7594. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
3. 
TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: What will be the focus of the Government’s economic programme in 2013? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 As the Prime Minister confirmed yesterday the Government’s economic programme will be front and centre for 2013. The Government will be pursuing a clear plan to build a faster-growing economy that can support more jobs and continued rising incomes in the face of ongoing uncertainty in the rest of the world. Our four main priorities will be to responsibly manage the Government’s finances so we can return to surplus and start repaying debt; pushing ahead with a wide-ranging programme of microeconomic reform to create a more productive and competitive economy; getting better results from public services; and supporting the rebuilding of Christchurch. 
Todd McClay 
: What is the Government’s approach to supporting the investment and business growth needed to deliver more jobs and higher incomes? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: As the Prime Minister said in a speech recently we want New Zealand to become a magnet for investment in competitive businesses because actually the only way to get more real jobs is to create conditions where businesses make the decision to invest more and employ another person. The Government has laid out through its Business Growth Agenda literally hundreds of measures that it is taking to achieve this. 
Todd McClay 
: What progress is the Government making in achieving its target of returning to fiscal surplus by 2014-15? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: The Government is making good progress. The deficit in the financial year 2010-11 was $18.4 billion in 2011-12 it halved to $9.2 billion and it is forecast to fall further to $7.3 billion in the current year and $2 billion and then returning to surplus in 2014-15. This is coming about from firm control of Government expenditure which is essentially flat while Government revenue grows as the economy grows. 
Todd McClay 
: What are the overall prospects for New Zealand’s economy in 2013 and how is it performing compared with other developed economies? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: We would expect continued moderate growth in New Zealand despite the uncertain global environment. Since the low point of the recession in the June quarter of 2009 the economy has grown at an average of 2 percent a year in real terms—better than many developed world economies. Both Treasury and the Reserve Bank forecast our economy to grow at an average of 2.5 percent each year over the next 4 years. This is faster than the euro area the United Kingdom Japan and Canada. Of course we would like to see it grow faster than that and will do everything we can to encourage faster growth and help New Zealand businesses take advantage of the positive opportunities that they have ahead of them.
Sio William: Motions — Cyclone Evan—Samoa 
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Sio William: Motions — Cyclone Evan—Samoa 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7591. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Su’a WILLIAM SIO (Labour—Mangere) 
: 
 I seek leave of the House to move a motion without notice and without debate about Cyclone Evan. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none. 
Su’a WILLIAM SIO 
: I move  
That this House express its acknowledgment and support to the peoples and Governments of Samoa and Fiji after Cyclone Evan wreaked havoc on these islands just before Christmas last year and in particular convey its condolences and sympathies to Samoa’s head of State His Highness Tui Atua Tupua Tamasese Efi the Prime Minister Hon Tuilaepa Aiono Sailele Malielegaoi members of Samoa’s legislative assembly and the people of Samoa for the loss of five lives and to the families of the 10 people still missing when floodwaters drove through settlements in the Apia township dragging people homes vehicles and personal property out to sea and destroying power water and other infrastructure including food crops and note that for many families it is a first-time experience of losing literally everything and acknowledge the resilient response of families peoples organisations and Governments in both the islands and in New Zealand to aid families and friends in need.  
Motion agreed to.
Smith Lockwood: Points of Order — Human Rights Discriminatory Legislation—Leave to Move Member’s Motion 
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Smith Lockwood: Points of Order — Human Rights Discriminatory Legislation—Leave to Move Member’s Motion 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7591. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is objection.
Chauvel Charles: Points of Order — Human Rights Discriminatory Legislation—Leave to Move Member’s Motion 
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Chauvel Charles: Points of Order — Human Rights Discriminatory Legislation—Leave to Move Member’s Motion 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7591. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave to move members’ motion No. 4 in my name without debate.
Points of Order — Human Rights Discriminatory Legislation—Leave to Move Member’s Motion 
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Points of Order — Human Rights Discriminatory Legislation—Leave to Move Member’s Motion 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7591. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Points of Order 
Human Rights Discriminatory Legislation—Leave to Move Member’s Motion 
CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek leave to move members’ motion No. 4 in my name without debate. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is objection.
Motions — Cyclone Evan—Samoa 
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Motions — Cyclone Evan—Samoa 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7591. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Wednesday 30 January 2013 
Mr Speaker 
 took the Chair at 2 p.m. 
Karakia 
. 
Motions 
Cyclone Evan—Samoa 
Su’a WILLIAM SIO (Labour—Mangere) 
: 
 I seek leave of the House to move a motion without notice and without debate about Cyclone Evan. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There is none. 
Su’a WILLIAM SIO 
: I move  
That this House express its acknowledgment and support to the peoples and Governments of Samoa and Fiji after Cyclone Evan wreaked havoc on these islands just before Christmas last year and in particular convey its condolences and sympathies to Samoa’s head of State His Highness Tui Atua Tupua Tamasese Efi the Prime Minister Hon Tuilaepa Aiono Sailele Malielegaoi members of Samoa’s legislative assembly and the people of Samoa for the loss of five lives and to the families of the 10 people still missing when floodwaters drove through settlements in the Apia township dragging people homes vehicles and personal property out to sea and destroying power water and other infrastructure including food crops and note that for many families it is a first-time experience of losing literally everything and acknowledge the resilient response of families peoples organisations and Governments in both the islands and in New Zealand to aid families and friends in need.  
Motion agreed to.
Ngaro Alfred: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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Ngaro Alfred: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7676. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
ALFRED NGARO (National) 
: 
 Mr Speaker I would like to wish you a happy New Year and to all my parliamentary colleagues especially to Mr David Clark who has had a young baby girl. It is a special Christmas blessing that you have had. I would like to let you know that we on this side and the Government wish your child a brighter future and we are happy to bring that to you as well. 
Debate interrupted.
Robertson H V Ross: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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Robertson H V Ross: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7630. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Order! I do not wish the House to get into a slinging match. There are two rules: Speakers’ ruling 60/5 which is about constant interjections and Standing Order 117. It was a rather robust debate and I felt that the honourable Minister handled it quite well and was handling the interjections. That is why I let it go. But having said that there are Speakers’ rulings. The member is right.
Borrows Chester: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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Borrows Chester: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7630. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS (Minister for Courts) 
: 
 The member has just reinforced the exact point that he was doing it as a challenge to someone like me to take a point of order in the middle of the speech—
Mallard Trevor: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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Mallard Trevor: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7630. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I am not sure whether that was a bid for the Speaker’s role but any member with any experience knows that points of order must be raised at the time and not later.
Borrows Chester: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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Borrows Chester: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7630. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon CHESTER BORROWS (Minister for Courts) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I just want to draw your attention to the procedures in respect of interjections. We heard for instance a constant barrage of interjections from a sole Opposition member through the course of the previous speech. On occasions words such as “gutless” and “chicken” were applied to the speaker the Hon Hekia Parata. It was obviously done in a way that would bait someone like me to take a point of order in the middle of her speech and so disrupt it. I would like to know that you are taking notice of those particular comments from the other side.
King Annette: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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King Annette: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7617. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon ANNETTE KING (Labour—Rongotai) 
: 
 Can I say to the member Christopher Finlayson who has just resumed his seat that the name of the park is going to be “Bury Gerry Park” or the “Gerry Brownlee Memorial Park”. But I also say to Mr Finlayson that I have beaten him twice at an election and I am looking forward to thrashing him for a third time at the next election.
Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7608. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
11. 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
 to the  
Minister of State Services 
: What were the factors that contributed to the strained relations that resulted in the resignation of Lesley Longstone as Secretary of Education? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of State Services) 
: 
 As the member will be aware there were several high profile matters in education last year that contributed to strained relations across the education sector. Ms Longstone’s reasons for her resignation are a matter between her and the State Services Commissioner. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Was the State Services Commissioner correct in stating that strained relations with the Minister of Education Hekia Parata were largely to blame for Lesley Longstone’s resignation? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: He did not say that they were largely to blame for the resignation. Ms Longstone reached her own decision which she conveyed in writing to the State Services Commissioner. And I would make the point that employment matters such as this are a matter between the employee and the State Services Commissioner. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Was it a ministerial decision to increase class sizes in last year’s Budget a ministerial decision to propose closures and mergers for schools in Christchurch a ministerial decision to close Salisbury School—a decision overturned by the court—and a ministerial decision to sign off the implementation of Novopay; if so why is the Secretary for Education being asked to fall on her sword rather than the Minister who actually made the decisions? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: The Secretary for Education has not been asked to fall on her sword. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Does he believe that the Minister of Education’s remark on the way to the House today that the Ministry of Education not paying its staff today was “karma” is going to lead to an improvement or a further deterioration in the relationship between that great communicator Hekia Parata and her officials? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Well I am not going to rely on any report of a remark given by that member because I could not be sure that he is reporting it accurately. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Why should the New Zealand public have faith that the right person has resigned given that the Minister who made all the decisions that led to the major controversies in education remains in office but has had all of her major responsibilities apparently taken off her and now is not even being allowed by the Government to answer her own questions in the House? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: The member is allowed to answer her own questions.
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7608. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think we do not need to spend more time on this issue today. I mean the fundamental rule remains. It is the Government’s responsibility to determine which Minister answers a question. Concern was raised over the transferral of this question. I have ruled that it was perfectly in order for the question to be transferred and then leave has been sought for the question to be transferred back. The House is the master of its own destiny. Seeking such leave is never going to work. In fact it is hard to conceive how it would ever work because the Government does have control over that and that is why were it to become a regular practice I think the matter would need to be dealt with more clearly. But I have got no problem with the procedures followed today and so I think question No. 11 should now be put to the Minister of State Services.
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7608. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 It is quite clear that it is in the power of the House to move away from a particular Speaker’s ruling if it so chooses unanimously.
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7608. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would call your attention to Speaker’s ruling 151/3 and ask you to give us a fairly prompt ruling as to whether or not that Speaker’s ruling stands because it says in the Speaker’s ruling: “It is not for the Speaker or the House to determine which Minister has responsibility for a question.” It seems to me that in this circumstance either that ruling has been dispensed with or the House has just committed itself to a leave process that is contrary to the spirit of that Speaker’s ruling.
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7608. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is objection. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! That matter is now dealt with.
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7608. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I seek leave for question No. 11 in the name of Chris Hipkins to be transferred to another Minister or more specifically back to the Minister of Education.
Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Smith Lockwood: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7608. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. The Government determines which Minister should answer a question but there is no reason why just as a member can seek leave to have their question deferred leave cannot be sought for a question to be transferred to another Minister because it is very much in the hands of any member to deny it. It is not as if it is putting the House at any risk at all. It would be I think extremely inappropriate were leave to be regularly sought. This is an issue where a question that was transferred has caused some concern. I believe that the transfer of the question was absolutely legitimate on the evidence I have seen and there is no reason for it not to have been transferred. However leave is now sought for it to be transferred back and I am prepared to entertain putting that leave.
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
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Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 30 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7607. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Does that mean that the House determines now which Minister answers questions as opposed to the Government?
Roy Eric: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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Roy Eric: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 29 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7582. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: The question is that the amendment be agreed to. Can I remind the member that he must furnish a signed copy of his amendment to the Table otherwise it will lapse.
Smith Lockwood: Obituaries — Hon Robert Leslie Gapper Talbot QSO 
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Smith Lockwood: Obituaries — Hon Robert Leslie Gapper Talbot QSO 
[Sitting date: 29 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7505. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I regret to inform the House of the death on 13 December 2012 of the Hon Robert Leslie Gapper Talbot QSO who represented the Ashburton electorate from 1966 to 1969 and again from 1978 to 1987 and the electorate of South Canterbury from 1969 to 1978. From 1981 to 1984 he was the Minister of Tourism and Postmaster-General. I desire on behalf of this House to express our sense of the loss we have sustained and our sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I now ask members to stand with me and observe a period of silence as a mark of respect for his memory. 
Honourable members stood as a mark of respect.
Obituaries — Hon Robert Leslie Gapper Talbot QSO 
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Obituaries — Hon Robert Leslie Gapper Talbot QSO 
[Sitting date: 29 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7505. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Tuesday 29 January 2013 
Mr Speaker 
 took the Chair at 2 p.m. 
Prayers 
. 
Obituaries 
Hon Robert Leslie Gapper Talbot QSO 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I regret to inform the House of the death on 13 December 2012 of the Hon Robert Leslie Gapper Talbot QSO who represented the Ashburton electorate from 1966 to 1969 and again from 1978 to 1987 and the electorate of South Canterbury from 1969 to 1978. From 1981 to 1984 he was the Minister of Tourism and Postmaster-General. I desire on behalf of this House to express our sense of the loss we have sustained and our sympathy with the relatives of the late former member. I now ask members to stand with me and observe a period of silence as a mark of respect for his memory. 
Honourable members stood as a mark of respect.
Macindoe Tim: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
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Macindoe Tim: Debate on Prime Minister’s Statement 
[Sitting date: 29 January 2013. Volume:687;Page:7590. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West) 
: 
 It is a great pleasure to rise for the first time in my new position as junior Government whip and I would like to thank my colleagues right across the House who have very kindly acknowledged that today. I have to say I am very excited and very humbled to have received the support of my colleagues in order to take on the position and it is one I am looking forward to with relish. 
I do want to pay tribute to my good friend Michael Woodhouse while he is in the House. I think Michael has been an outstanding senior whip for just over a year since we were returned in 2011. I am delighted that he and my good friend Nikki Kaye who is sitting beside me were both appointed Ministers in the recent reshuffle. They are well-deserved promotions and I wish them all the very best in their new responsibilities. 
A new year is always a time of great excitement and I do join with other members in wishing you Mr Deputy Speaker a happy New Year. I want to say that along with other members of the House I was delighted to be in the House today to hear the Prime Minister outlining the vision for the year ahead. He made it very clear in his speech the other day on the North Shore that the economy will be absolutely at the centre of the programme in the coming year. It is not that other matters are not important; of course they are. When you are in Government one of the responsibilities is to tackle such a wide range of issues. But without not only getting the economy on an even keel but also promoting a growth economy in New Zealand there is very little in the social and environmental agenda that we can do. 
So I want to say to Mr Hughes who has just resumed his seat that I always enjoy listening to him. He is certainly a very articulate speaker. But I have to say that some of the ideas that he has just been putting forward sound good in theory but they are pie in the sky without ensuring that the fundamentals of the economy are put right. So that is what we will be focused on in the next year. 
Dr David Clark 
: 5 long years. 
TIM MACINDOE 
: I say to Dr Clark who again is an articulate speaker that although he enjoys his colourful interjections again he— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I am sorry to interrupt the member but the time has come for the House to rise. 
Debate interrupted.
Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1121. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the question be now put. 
Ayes 63 
New Zealand National 59; Maori Party 2; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1. 
Noes 57 
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Mana 1. 
Motion agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendments in the name of the Hon Judith Collins to the proposed amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 12 in her name to Part 4 be agreed to: 
to replace in clause 124(b) “circumstances” with “circumstances; and”; and 
to delete the amendment to clause 169(2)(a). 
Amendments to the amendments agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendments as amended set out on Supplementary Order Paper 12 in the name of the Hon Judith Collins to Part 4 and the following amendments in her name to Part 4 be agreed to: 
to replace in clause 126(6)(b) “subsection (1)(b)(i)” with “subsection (1)(b)”; 
to replace in clause 127(1)(b) “section 126(1)(b)(i)” with “section 126(1)(b)”; and 
to replace in clause 127(3) “section 126(1)(b)(i)” with “section 126(1)(b)”.
Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1130. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1. 
Noes 59 
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Maori Party 2; Mana 1. 
Amendment agreed to. 
Bill reported with amendment. 
Report adopted.
Parker David: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Parker David: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1129. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) 
: 
 I am not going to take a long call on this. The points that have been made as to our objection to the Search and Surveillance Bill have been made in respect of the various parts that have been discussed previously particularly our concerns about production orders and examination orders generally but also in relation to the Serious Fraud Office version of those powers which is without the protections that are in this legislation in so far as the police have been conferred similar powers. I think it is sad that a piece of legislation that is so fundamental to the balance of power between individuals and the State is being passed tonight on a majority of 61 to 59. I think it is pretty clear that if there had been some movement of the Government on the part of Serious Fraud Office powers you would have had a very big majority for this legislation. This sort of legislation ought to enjoy large parliamentary majorities rather than slip through at a majority of 61 to 59. 
The introductory note in the commentary from the Justice and Electoral Committee says: “This bill is intended to implement a comprehensive reform of search and surveillance legislation both as regards the core substantive law enforcement powers and the way search powers are exercised across the statute book.” As my colleague Charles Chauvel said when he quoted that same provision earlier in the debate the fact that this is not doing that is I think lamentable. We have one institution in New Zealand that can exercise its powers without needing to get a warrant from a judge in respect of the exercise of serious powers including powers that override the right to silence and that one institution is the Serious Fraud Office. Not the Security Intelligence Service; it has to get a warrant from the retired High Court Judge who oversees its processes. Not the police; they have to get a warrant. Indeed for production and examination orders they cannot just get a warrant from a registrar; they have to get a warrant from a judge. Yet we have this exception for the Serious Fraud Office which does not need to get a warrant from anyone. It has abused its powers in the past by using them against the media and has abused its powers more often by utilising the production order and examination order route which is easier for the Serious Fraud Office because it can do it by internal administrative act rather than going for a warrant or using normal investigative processes. Those orders can be quite broad and put quite a lot of administrative costs on the people who are in receipt of those production and examination orders. 
I am not going to say anything more than that. I think other than that broadly this legislation does strike the right balance between the civil liberties that we should be protecting for people and the powers that the police on occasions need to investigate crimes so as to keep our public safe.
Turei Metiria: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Turei Metiria: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1129. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I did not want to interrupt the voting process just to ask this question of clarification. Is it legit for National to vote on behalf of the ACT Party when the ACT Party member is in the Chamber and in his seat and available to vote? [ 
Interruption 
] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Order! There is a point of order being dealt with. The answer to that is yes and I did seek advice on that matter. So that is in order. We have come to the debate on the clauses.
Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1128. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That Part 5 as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1. 
Noes 59 
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Maori Party 2; Mana 1. 
Part 5 as amended agreed to.
Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1122. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments as amended and the further amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1. 
Noes 59 
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Maori Party 2; Mana 1. 
Amendments as amended and further amendments agreed to. 
The question was put that the following amendments in the name of Charles Chauvel to clause 139 be agreed to: 
to insert in paragraph (c) “; and” after “determining the claim of privilege”; and 
to insert after paragraph (c):  
(d)commits an offence punishable by a term of imprisonment not exceeding one year if the person breaches the provisions of this section.
Calder Cam: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Calder Cam: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1121. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Dr CAM CALDER (National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1122. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That Part 4 as amended be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1. 
Noes 59 
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Maori Party 2; Mana 1. 
Part 4 as amended agreed to.
Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
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Vote: Search and Surveillance Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 20 March 2012. Volume:678;Page:1130. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That clause 1 be agreed to. 
Ayes 61 
New Zealand National 59; ACT New Zealand 1; United Future 1. 
Noes 59 
New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party 14; New Zealand First 8; Maori Party 2; Mana 1. 
Clause 1 agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 12 in the name of the Hon Judith Collins to clause 2 be agreed to.