Prebble Richard: Electricity and Gas Industries Bill — In Committee 
Prebble Richard: Electricity and Gas Industries Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15727] 
Hon RICHARD PREBBLE (ACT) 
: 
 I hope Mr Copeland was listening to the Minister because the Minister basically told us that Mr Copeland’s belief that he is responsible for the 50 megawatts is as far as the Minister is concerned nonsense—and Mr Copeland is telling members what a great influence United Future has had. Mind you the Minister could not actually tell us: “If it’s 50 then why not 100?”. But let us turn our minds to the ridiculous amendment from the Greens. 
The Greens have said that line companies can generate any amount they like providing it is from a new renewable energy source. I looked at the principal Act to see whether “new renewable energy source” is defined. The Greens might be interested to know that it is not. I know the Greens do not know anything about physics but that means that they are in favour of a line company—and there might be one mad enough to do it—generating by nuclear fission because nuclear fission results in plutonium. The Greens might be interested to know that it is definitely within the definition of a “new renewable energy source”. So the Green Party is saying it is in favour of nuclear power in New Zealand and I never thought I would see that day. 
Peter Brown 
: Maybe he’s had a few smokes! 
Hon RICHARD PREBBLE 
: Maybe he had a few. Well he thinks it is funny but that is exactly what this clause does. Let me tell him something else. I am a lawyer and I would be quite willing to go along and argue—as I am sure a line company lawyer will—that a new renewable energy source does not cover just wind and water but also covers things like coal. Coal is generated over millions of years and there must be new coal being generated as we speak. It will be being formed and new gas will be being formed. There is nothing in this bill to say how rapidly the renewal of the energy source has to be just that it is happening. Well as a matter of scientific fact it is happening so the Green Party is introducing a measure that actually says that line companies can generate any amount of energy provided that they get a lawyer like me—and I will soon be available—who is quite happy to argue that this clause covers any energy and it certainly covers nuclear fusion. There is no doubt about it. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Is that renewable? 
Hon RICHARD PREBBLE 
: It is renewable—of course it is. Nuclear fusion results in plutonium. It is one of those interesting processes where one ends up with more energy at the end. In fact the Greens ought to love nuclear fusion. Perhaps they do—perhaps I have misinterpreted the Greens. Perhaps the Green Party is really right into nuclear power. I always thought that they were against it but I see this clause being put in and I say that this is the sort of clause—like the 50 megawatt clause; if we accept Mr Copeland’s argument—that gives MMP a bad name. Here we have small little parties trying to prove to their membership that they have some influence so they put forward this sort of amendment. Even though the clause is nonsense—and both clauses are nonsense; the whole bill is nonsense—in order for the minority Labour Government to have a majority to put through this Stalinist legislation we have clauses of this sort. It is sheer madness. 
The Government ought to realise that the reason it is in this position is not just MMP and its loony flaky coalition partners like United Future and the Green Party but that what it is trying to do does not make any sense. There is a Resource Management Act and it is for that Act which talks about sustainable New Zealand to decide those sorts of questions. It is bad lawmaking—and the Minister knows this—to put in a clause that uses the term “new renewable energy source”—a term that has not been defined by the Greens. The Greens do not know what that means. Nor do the line companies. There will be litigation about this matter. I say to the Green members that the result might be the exact opposite of what they think. We have line companies that are crazy enough to invest in wineries and finance companies so they are certainly nutty enough to invest in nuclear power now that they have been told by the Green Party that it is the only form of energy they are allowed to invest in. Why should this Parliament be attempting to make those sorts of guides and rules for the energy companies? It is complete utter nonsense.