English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18793] 
5.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Education 
: Does he agree with NZQA Group Manager Secondary Education Kate Colbert’s comments regarding NCEA results that “year-to-year variability in mainstream areas such as mathematics is as expected.” and is he satisfied with reported levels of variability? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister of Education) 
: 
 I am not yet in a position to say whether I fully agree with that statement. I would expect some variability in National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) results both between years and between subjects—as indeed one would expect under any examination system. However I am not yet assured that the level of variability that was observed in the 2004 NCEA results was appropriate or acceptable. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is the Minister aware of widespread public concern that unacceptable variability punishes students with the consequences of a bad assessment system; if he is aware of that why is he allowing the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to do a review of variability when the authority states that all the variability is all right acceptable and expected? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am aware of that public concern and that is why I have instituted the State Services Commission review which covers this matter. It is important though that the member is not over-fixated on variability. I shall help him and the House with some information. For example in terms of the final year of School Certificate results in 2001 subject variability was as follows: accounting 42.9 percent failed; chemistry 16 percent failed; biology 33.3 percent failed; Latin 5.9 percent failed; and agriculture 48.6 percent failed. Indeed in the Cambridge exams which are often vaunted as not having this issue in terms of the percentage of students who gained failed grades in November 2003 accounting had 32.4 percent failure; design had 2.2 percent failure; Spanish had no failure; chemistry had 30 percent failure; French had 1.1 percent failure; Chinese had no failure; and business studies had 40.4 percent failure. 
Helen Duncan 
: What action has the Minister taken with regard to variability in NCEA results? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: As members will be aware the State Services Commission is currently reviewing issues related to the 2004 New Zealand Scholarship results and to systems at the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. Last week I also wrote to the State Services Commissioner asking that this review instigated by the Government be expanded to include an investigation into the apparent variation in NCEA results both between subjects in a year and between years. I believe that it is entirely appropriate that the Government seek this level of assurance in the circumstances. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Will the Minister explain why for the level 1 geometry standard “can solve right-angled triangle problems’’ in 2002 over 5000 students were graded excellent yet in 2003 only 70 students were graded excellent; is this the degree of variability that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority claims is “as expected”? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: No I cannot provide the member with that level of detail but it is exactly that issue that the State Services Commissioner will be confirming. It may be of course that there was a change of standard as there was in the case of the one that was asked about in the House last week. I can easily confirm that for the member. 
Deborah Coddington 
: Is the Minister aware that since 1990 Professor Warwick Elley has variously called the NCEA a bureaucratic nightmare a juggernaut and a giant step backwards and has warned about unacceptable variability for over a decade; and has he received any reports that the National Party has changed its policy on the NCEA? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I have no responsibility for the National Party’s policy on this matter but I am aware of the comments that various educational philosophers such as Professor Elley have made. [ 
Interruption 
] I am also aware of a majority of both educators and educational philosophers— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! Please be seated. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: —who have quite contrary positions. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! When I call “Order!” people sit down. I know what that member is going to say. I could not hear the answer. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is always a sad thing when we see relationships fall apart but the controversy coming from over here and over there every time that the ACT party— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member knows that is not a point of order. I just want to warn members. I of course allow interjections during answers because they are provocative and provocative comments can come. I think that is part of the good way we can have proper debate in this House. But interjections have to be reasonable and reasonably rare and I think that on both sides of the House in that particular case they were not. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was interrupted whilst answering his question and I do not think he had finished. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister had finished. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm for the benefit of students teachers and parents in New Zealand his decision that the variability problem with NCEA will be investigated by Mr Doug Martin who has no expertise in education and absolutely none in assessment; and why does he think that that is an adequate response to widespread concern that the results and the assessment of NCEA are unfair to the students who have to wear the consequences of incompetent administration and marking? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I have confidence in the State Services Commissioner’s choice of reviewer and I encourage that member to wait for the report before he makes such ridiculous judgments. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is the Minister aware of allegations from teachers that for instance the chief facilitator for level 3 graphics was a phys ed teacher; that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority has a policy that the liaison person for a subject area has to be a person without expertise in that subject; that the entire marking schedule for level 3 physics was adjusted after its sample marking of 200 scripts showed that the pass rate would be almost zero; that students in level 3 English who answered the  
Othello 
 question had a 34 percent pass rate but those who answered the alternative question on  
Hamlet 
 had a 67 percent pass rate— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question is getting to the stage where— 
Hon Bill English 
: I am just asking whether he is aware of the allegations Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: OK but we have had sufficient number in this particular question. 
Hon Bill English 
: I have just one more. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: All right one more. 
Hon Bill English 
: And is he aware of this fax: “Here are my daughter’s results. Note paper 19087: ‘Demonstrate knowledge of calf-rearing’. Amy did not sit this exam nor did she take any agricultural paper. The school does not even offer this course. We need to know if the calf-rearing credits are from another subject or are they someone else’s credits.”? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question was too long. I do not care whether it had a number of parts to it; it was too long. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I am aware of some of the matters that the questioner raises and that is why I have included them in the ambit of the State Services Commission investigation. I would say though that in general I am aware of a number of allegations from Mr English that generally turn out to be baseless. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table the following evidence relating to Doug Martin who was given health board appointments Fire Service review appointments and an appointment as chief of staff in Jenny Shipley’s office when the National Party was last in office. 
Documents not tabled. 
Hon Bill English 
: I seek leave to table the CV of Mr Doug Martin which will confirm what Winston Peters says and will show that the reviewer has absolutely no expertise in education and certainly not in assessment. 
I also seek leave to table another document which is a fax from Amy’s mum who wants to know who the calf-rearing credits belong to. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House.