8. Teachers—SupplyCHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of EducationTeachers—Supply8. CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of Education: How many additional teachers will be trained each year as part of her announcement last week that $5.2 million would be spent on addressing shortages of staff in hard-to-staff core subjects?Hon NIKKI KAYE (Minister of Education): The $5.2 million I announced last week was focused on 90 teachers 45 per year in either subjects or locations where it is hard to staff. That will vary each year. I also announced a mentoring programme that covers 700 provisionally registered teachers of which a number will be focused on hard-to-staff areas. Additionally we announced the lifting of the moratorium in terms of initial teacher provider training. I am confident that these measures combined plus some measures introduced last year will result in hundreds more quality certified teachers.Chris Hipkins: Does she seriously think that 45 additional teachers a year will address the fact that over 45 percent of secondary teachers are over the age of 50 and that the Secondary Teacher Supply Working Group estimates that an additional 2200 secondary teachers are required each year?Hon NIKKI KAYE: He should have listened to my last answer. It is not about just Teach First NZ. It is also about the mentoring scheme that we announced which is $2 million and 700 teachers of which there will be teachers in hard-to-staff core subjects—plus we have announced the lifting of the moratorium. It is not just about Teach First NZ. With regard to the 2200 figure the member has been in the portfolio a long time. He does not understand the numbers. He keeps repeating incorrect figures.Chris Hipkins: If she does not think that the Secondary Teacher Supply Working Group is recommending an extra 2200 teachers per year how many does she think are going to be required?Hon NIKKI KAYE: The latest advice that I have had for instance—and if we look at what we are actually talking about which is STEM Te Reo and geographical areas where there are shortages—when you look at the total 8000 vacancies take 2700 approximately which are in STEM. I am advised that potentially less than 10 percent are actually new teachers required.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister disputed a particular number that I have used. I asked her what her number was and she has not given a number in her answer.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will invite the member to repeat his question.Chris Hipkins: If the Minister does not think that the Secondary Teacher Supply Working Group estimated that an additional 2200 extra secondary teachers are required each year how many does she think are required?Hon NIKKI KAYE: I just did give a number—I did give a number—in terms of the overall vacancies. I talked about the fact that when we look at the overall vacancies and we actually look at the additional teachers that are required it is less than 10 percent.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That could be 10 percent of anything. The Minister has disputed the number—Mr SPEAKER: We have had the question twice; I am not responsible for the answer. I will allow the member an additional supplementary question to move forward.Chris Hipkins: Is she concerned that the proportion of secondary teachers over 60 years of age has increased from 10 percent in 2005 to 21 percent in 2015 which is more than double the proportion of teachers under the age of 30; if so why does her Government not have an answer to that burgeoning crisis in teacher supply?Mr SPEAKER: There are two supplementary questions; the Minister can address either one or both.Hon NIKKI KAYE: Yes we are concerned in terms of the ageing workforce but we do have an answer. We have several answers and that is what we are doing. We have announced several measures in terms of teacher supply: lifting the moratorium to enable greater innovation in terms of initial teacher providers and announcing a new mentoring scheme to enable more teachers to go from provisional to full registration. The other point I would make to the member is that under this Government—and he might want to look at the figures—the number of registered practising teachers has increased from 90000 to 100000.David Seymour: Does the Minister agree with Northland College principal Jim Luders who says that Every single Teach First candidate we've had has just been outstanding they are so thorough so hard-working and so resilient it's unbelievable. Our kids get major benefit from them … This is the best thing for kids in low decile [schools] and this system works."?Hon NIKKI KAYE: Yes I do and as someone who has visited Northland College and had to fix the $14 million build for that school I can tell you that I am very proud of this Government having invested $5 billion in fixing leaky cold schools left by that Government.Chris Hipkins: Why has the Government announced an additional $5.2 million for the Teach First NZ programme given that the programme's founding partner Auckland University has withdrawn from the programme; that the Dean of the Auckland University School of Education has concerns about expanding it and has said that that was one of the reasons why they pulled out; and that there is no guarantee that the new provider is going to be approved before this programme is supposed to be delivered?Hon NIKKI KAYE: Well there are several reasons why we have announced funding for this. The first is that there has been a range of evaluations that have shown how successful this programme is. The second thing is—Chris Hipkins: And they pulled out.Hon NIKKI KAYE: No the second thing is that those evaluations show we are getting teachers in those hard-to-staff areas. This is not a question of the overall number of teachers; this is about science and technology and Te Reo teachers in hard-to-staff areas like Northland—getting teachers where they need it—and this programme is delivering. With regard to the provider it is a serious issue and we are working through a process. I understand there is someone who has come forward and we will work through that process. I am very confident that we will enable 90 new teachers in areas that are hard to staff to go through the Teach First NZ programme and that will be great.Chris Hipkins: Does she think that it is appropriate for a Minister of Education to effectively instruct that these students are going to go through this programme which has not yet been approved?Hon NIKKI KAYE: That is not what I have said.Chris Hipkins: That's what she just said.Hon NIKKI KAYE: No it is not what I have said. I have said that there are issues in terms of the current provider. There is a process that is under way. There are a range of parts to that process that have to be considered. What I am saying is that I am very confident. I think that we will—whether it is that provider or another provider—enable Teach First NZ to continue but there is a process and it is not a question that I am instructing that process; I am just saying that the money has been put aside and I am confident we will get through that.Chris Hipkins: Did the Secondary Teacher Supply Working Group find that of the 2200 additional secondary teachers that would be required 1400 of those were likely to be or would necessarily be new teachers to the profession; if so why should parents have confidence that the Government will be able to deliver that number required when the number of domestic graduates from secondary education programmes has declined from over a thousand in 2012 to just 760 in 2015—roughly half the number required?Hon NIKKI KAYE: I would have to check his figures from that report but what I can tell the member is why we have confidence in terms of the overall numbers. As I said before in the last 8½ years we have gone from 90000 to 100000 teachers who are registered with practising certificates. The overall numbers are reasonably good; the issue that we have—and there is an issue in terms of a slight decrease each year but the overall numbers are reasonably good for a large workforce of this size—is in certain areas we have shortages. That is why we made the announcements this week and that is why they are going to be very good for New Zealand. Question No. 6 to MinisterHon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Finance): I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You ruled earlier in response to a previous point of order that Mr Robertson could not table Labour Party policy because it was widely and freely available. Since that time I have been searching for it on the internet and on the Labour Party website and unfortunately it does not appear to be available. I am wondering whether you could give him the opportunity to table it again. Mr SPEAKER: That is not a point of order but Mr Robertson—[Interruption]—no no. I will allow Mr Robertson to speak to it.GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central): I will speak very slowly: www.labour.org.nz/announced_policies. You will find it there. Mr SPEAKER: No I need no further help. It just goes to prove that my original ruling was indeed the correct one."