Brown Simeon; Mahuta NanaiaSIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga): Thank you Madam Chair and thank you for the opportunity to take a call on this clause which is being proposed by my colleague Christopher Luxon. I do find it fascinating that we're sitting here being asked questions from the Minister in the chair because the committee of the whole House chance is our opportunity to ask questions of the Minister and to seek answers. But instead of getting any answers what we're getting is questions back and it does pose the question whether the Minister actually considered appeal rights for this scenario for Māori wards. Did the Minister consider that?The Minister has got plenty of feedback and questions about whether this Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) considered the issue of appeal rights but did the Minister actually consider appeal rights in the situation of Māori wards or not? Because what we end up with is a piece of legislation which is not consistent which does not flow and which does not have the parity which we were apparently promised—that this legislation was going to put Māori wards and general wards in local government on the same playing field. So now we've got a situation where there are appeal rights very clearly in the legislation for general wards but this SOP is trying to fix now the anomaly where the council essentially has the ability to go ahead and do whatever it likes.So I'd like to ask the Minister and have her answer the question of whether she considered a need for this type of SOP or whether the only issue she's actually got with this SOP is the fact that it doesn't quite fit the timing that she's trying to ram this piece of legislation through Parliament with. And if that's the answer to the question then the point is that the timing should be changed in order for this to be properly considered. If she didn't consider it well I'd hope the Minister would be able to take a call and actually acknowledge to the committee Actually no I didn't consider that issue. I didn't consider it and now we've got an SOP on the Table can we work to actually find a solution through this?" And we've got time. We've got plenty of time here during this debate to find a solution.If it's only section 19ZGA(2)(a)(ii) which is what the Minister is saying is the only part apparently that she has pointed to as being of issue well what's the wording which needs to be changed? What's the couple of words? I mean there's only—one two three four five six—seven words in that part. Only seven words.Hon Simon Bridges: Can't be that hard.SIMEON BROWN: Can't be that hard. So tell us: what would you like us to change that to? Because I'm pretty sure—I'm happy to work with Christopher Luxon and I could rephrase those seven words in the next seven minutes and we could table a new amendment which would fit the intent of this legislation which is to ensure that there is parity and that the same processes are in place for general wards and for Māori wards.So I'd ask the Minister to please take a call. Only a few simple questions: did she consider the issue of appeal rights in this situation? Did she or didn't she? I think the committee would like to know whether that was actually considered. Did she receive any advice on that matter from officials? Was that something that Ministers gave guidance or advice to the Minister on? Did she seek guidance or advice from officials on that particular issue? Because this is a very important issue. If we're going to have an intent of making sure that this legislation for Māori wards is the same as general wards then I'd hope that the Minister actually asked those simple questions of officials and received some advice. If she didn't well does she agree with the intent of this Supplementary Order Paper? You know she's picked a hole that she thinks is in here due to timing but does she agree with the intent? And I'd like the Minister to take a call and say. Do you agree with the intent that these appeal rights should be in place for Māori wards as well as for general wards?Then if she does agree with that intent what are the specific words that she would like changed? I'm happy to work with Christopher Luxon happy to work with him to find a suitable wording which she can then accept and then the committee of the whole House will be able to work together—that's what it's about working together—to improve the legislation so that the law which comes through here and is put into legislation is actually the best for New Zealanders. I think that's what the public want us to be doing; they want us to be working together to find the right solution. So a few questions there. I look forward to the response from the Minister.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): Once again there is a level of repetitiveness albeit asked in a different way in terms of the angle of the question but can I repeat that right from the beginning I had indicated that we would not be changing the representation review process or the appeal process which people have access to through the Local Government Commission. So in short yes the potential for an appeal process through the Local Government Commission was always a consideration. That's why we're not changing that aspect of how Māori wards and constituencies would be created. And again I make the point—the question might be asked in the same way but it's going in the same direction—they may not like the answer but the answer's been very clear. It was explained to the Māori Affairs Committee in terms of how the representation review process works and where the appeal component of that process starts to kick in which is at the end of the representation review process."