Potaka Tama; O'Connor GregTAMA POTAKA (National—Hamilton West): Yes can I first acknowledge the tragic events in Tāmaki-makau-rau this morning. Haere pai oti atu rā.[Go well as your journey ends.]And I also acknowledge the welcome appointment of legendary of Māori land law lecturer Caren Fox as the first wāhine to be the Chief Judge of the Māori Land Court. Ka pai hoki ngā kōrero.[The comments are very good.]After the mansplaining lecture it is with great enthusiasm that I can talk to this second reading on the Legal Services Amendment Bill and no doubt Chief Judge Fox would be very interested in this proposed legislation given that she was instrumental in the establishment of the Māori Legal Services here in Wellington many years ago. I'm reminded of the pithy quote of Francis Bacon a former Attorney-General of England—and often attributed with writing some Shakespearean plays—who stated If we do not maintain justice justice will not be maintained." and justice is what we're talking about today. National is concerned that our justice system is becoming Dickensesque like something out of Bleak House and the infamous case of Jarndyce v Jarndyce. The bill implements the Government's decision to strengthen legal aid through the removal of the user charge and the interest on unpaid legal debt. Overall this will have a multimillion-dollar impact on a taxpayer over four years—moneys that we believe could be better used to improve court processes for parties including those in the Māori Land Court which has been seriously underfunded and under-serviced for IT and other matters for applicants for years. Now Kiwis are struggling to access justice on a daily basis under the current Government especially victims. Dysfunctions delays frustration with court users with the increase in waiting times and criminal cases being particularly unjust—46 percent more than the victims than prior to the pandemic. But the best thing that we believe the Government could do right now is actually improve access to justice through expediting the slow court processes that they continue to preside over. Using audiovisual and other methods more effectively could help that and effectively use the enormous taxpayer resources which have been hoarded and accumulated over the last five years to deliberately enhance productivity from a sluggish judicial system.Submitters unanimously supported this bill with many noting that $50 is a significant amount of money for those on low incomes. Kei te tika hoki.[That is very true.]This is appreciated. However the Labour-led Government could actually better address the fundamental poverty issues that beset those folks by giving a bit of tax relief making housing more affordable and ensuring educational attainment by school leavers rather than this well-meaning and sometimes misguided reform.Importantly all the submitters have commented that the wider reform of the system is absolutely necessary and it was not unnoticed by my learned colleagues in the National Party. It's that very reform that we seek not the nickel-and-diming that the Government continues to perpetuate through this type of legislation. The purpose of having interest is an incentive to people to pay their unpaid legal aid debts. Without incentives debts will remain unpaid. Today it's legal aid Mr Muller; tomorrow maybe it's speeding fines and next week court fines also. Todd Muller: That's right. TAMA POTAKA: There's an existing exemption pathway for legal aid debt on the basis of financial hardship and just inequitable reasons and that's set out in the legal aid legislation right now. But this legislation in our view is superfluous to the substantive issues that undermine our justice system. The futility of "Bleak House" has beset the courts including the Kooti Whenua Māori—the Māori Land Court—albeit the Shakespearean comedy The Merchant of Venice continues to provide us with some theatrical hope about mercy and I quote "The quality of mercy is not strained. It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed. It blesseth him who gives"—or her who gives—"and him [or her] that takes."I look forward to hearing from other members of this fine House on their learned views on access to justice in the context of a failing justice system. Kia ora tātou.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Mr Potaka just before you sit down your comment at the start was noted. Can I just say that the comment about the good order of the House—being flippant around a Speaker's comment is not assisting that so I'll invite you in future just not to comment on other matters that have taken place. Thank you.Tama Potaka: I didn't hear that Mr Speaker—part of your comment there.DEPUTY SPEAKER: The member's comment at the beginning of his speech which was pertinent to a previous comment by the Speaker. So for the member I'll invite him to go back and have a look at Hansard if he wants further explanation or come to my office—either way. But flippancy of that sort does not assist the good order and running of the House."