Collins Judith: Corrections (Mothers with Babies) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Collins Judith: Corrections (Mothers with Babies) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
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JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) 
: 
 The Corrections (Mothers with Babies) Amendment Bill that the member who has just resumed her seat referred to is legislation that most of us would like to think we would never have to pass or to use because to think of a mother with a little baby being in prison is a horrible thought. However I think that most members would understand that for parents there is no greater love than the love they have for their child. When we think about those few situations where this legislation is expected to be used where a mother with a very young child or a pregnant woman goes into prison we have to think of the best interests of the child. Some would say that the best interests of the child would be to remove the child and place him or her with a foster parent. I wonder how that could really be in the best interests of the child long term but in some cases it might be. But just the other day I read in the newspaper the latest story about the Chamberlain family. I am sure that all members remember Lindy Chamberlain who was falsely accused and convicted of killing her baby Azaria. She was pregnant when she went to prison and her baby was born in prison. Her baby was removed from her and put into foster care for some years. I actually cannot remember the name of the new baby because it was one of those unusual names—not Judith obviously. 
Hon Member 
: Azaria. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: It was not Azaria no; it was Azaria’s sister. The newspaper reported just the other day that this young woman had grown up and she was getting married. She was walked down the aisle by what she called her four fathers. Of course she had one biological dad—Michael Chamberlain—but she had been brought up by foster parents until her mother was able to come out of prison to reclaim her baby. Fortunately from all reports she seemed to have turned out a well-adjusted young woman and she seemed to have a very good relationship with her parents her foster parents and the extended families. But what a sad story it was. I thought about how sad it was that that girl has missed out on having her mum at such an early stage and that her mother has had a baby taken from her—how sad. 
When our caucus looked at this bill we looked at all those issues to do with what was in the best interests of the children and we considered very fully what the chances are for a mother who is in prison and who say is properly accused and properly convicted to be rehabilitated. To me that is a very strong point. I do not believe that most of the women in our prisons are there because they have been wrongly accused. I do not believe that at all. I believe that almost all of them are there because they have been properly convicted. But because people do bad things it does not mean to say that they will always be bad people. It does not make them bad people; it makes them people who have done bad things. If there is any chance at all for someone to be rehabilitated then surely it will be through the person’s child because that person will change for the child. 
Many of us will have known people over the years who have acted in very strange ways and who have gone through very bad times when they were teenagers or when they were in their twenties or thirties. They may have been inconsiderate and broken the law and then somehow along the way they have changed. Normally that happens because of their children. I have seen a number of people change their lives because they want to set a good example for their child. Those people can give us hope that yes people can change their ways. 
I think it is also very important to remember that restrictions are placed on a mother if she wishes to have her baby with her in prison. Those restrictions relate to drugs as there are no drugs and having the mothers being part of rehabilitation programmes. They are about making sure that the babies are looked after and cared for that they get their well child checks and that they are in a situation where they are getting something that in many cases they would not have received if they had stayed in their own homes even if they are in a prison. After having visited several prisons over the years I would have to say that they are pretty bad harsh places but let us be frank. These children and these mums often come from the most dire situations. When we think about whether we should have babies being brought up in prison we should also think about the homes that these children come from. This is a really sad thing to say but frankly some children will have a better chance by having a couple of years in prison where at least they will have supervision mum will be on a drug or alcohol programme mum will get a chance to bond with her child and mum will have a chance to be a human being to feel and to give love to her child. Those are the things that I think this bill can bring. The fact that this bill is being supported by all members throughout the House recognises that this is an opportunity for us to give a bit of humanity to a place like a prison which certainly seems to me—and thankfully I have only ever visited prisons—to be a place lacking in humanity in almost all cases. 
I see that the select committee has said that the chief executive should be able to not give that consent. I know the reasons for that are around the behaviour of the mother. They are also around the facilities and the availability of them. I would however have a word of caution about that provision and I would like us to keep an eye on it. I would hate to see a chief executive or a prison manager use the ability to remove a child as a punishment for a mother who steps out of line in terms of speaking up or standing up for her position or rights. I think that is something we should definitely keep an eye on. I can think of nothing worse than having a baby taken away—there is nothing worse. I simply cannot imagine how anybody could not feel like that. I do not think for a moment that I would ever want to see a child brought up in prison but as I have said before I think unfortunately there are some children—thankfully only a few—who will be in that situation. I cannot help but be reminded of those stories of Charles Dickens about the debtors’ prisons and the children growing up in them and how terrible we thought that was. 
Before I became a mother when I knew all about parenting—that was before I became a mother and then I got to know something and realised I was not an expert on these matters—I would have asked why we would want to do this and I would have said that it was not in the best interests of children. I am however a mother and I have learnt a bit of humility—thankfully not too much—along the way. I have also I think understood that unless a child is in danger unless a child is clearly going to be severely disadvantaged I would personally keep a mother with her child wherever I could because it not only is the right thing and the best thing for the mother but has to be the right thing for the child. 
In conclusion the committee has kept the opportunity for the child to be always at the forefront of this legislation and there is the ability if the mother is not complying with the drug and alcohol programmes—if she is not in fact looking after the child—for the child to be removed. I would like to hope that that will not happen because I would like to hope that these little children will bring a ray of sunshine into those places and that they will help these mothers rehabilitate.