Russell DeborahHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour): I have some more questions on disability trusts—part of the extensive changes that were made to the trust rate rules which we're kind of working our way through step by step. So I've got another question on the disability one before I move on to some of the other changes that are sitting around that trust rate rule and that is around the definition of a disabled person or a disabled beneficiary. Now it's sitting in clause 39 which inserts new section HC 39 and in particular in section HC 39(3) A 'disabled beneficiary' for an income year" is a person who receives some various sorts of benefits under the Social Security Act. They're all defined in terms of the Social Security Act. I have looked through there for the definitions there but in particular what I'm thinking of—and it's a situation that is going to apply to at least some people. So the way that a disabled beneficiary is determined is by whether or not that person receives one of these social security allowances payments and so on. It seems like a reasonable way to do it. We don't want arbitrary assessments as to who is a disabled beneficiary or not. But it has occurred to me that there are circumstances in which there are people who have disabilities who are the beneficiaries of trusts but they are not people who are in receipt of one of these allowances. Now I have a particular example in mind actually of a friend's son who has autism and so they have a trust set up for this young man and the trust has been in operation for a number of years. I believe he is in receipt of one of those allowances now as an adult but as a child he was disabled but he wasn't receiving one of those benefits but he was a beneficiary of a trust. So obviously we have to limit it in some regard Minister but I wonder if we've inadvertently left out a class of people to whom that rate of 33 percent should apply. It is worth thinking about. Now I was thinking it through with respect to this young man. As a child he was in receipt of an ORS grant—an Ongoing Resourcing Scheme grant—but of course that's an educational thing. It's not something under the Social Security Act. So here we have what is actually a problem and I'm not sure we can resolve it right now but it is something we do need to have a think about. A clearly disabled child—actually quite a remarkable young man who is doing well now but clearly disabled—and a beneficiary of a trust set up very much for his benefit but he wouldn't have been able to get this concessionary rate. So it will be fine now because he falls under one of these categories but he did not previously fall under one of those categories and there must be other people with disabilities who are not receiving an allowance but who are nevertheless the beneficiaries of trusts set up for them. It was only as we were sort of starting to go through this extensive committee stage that I realised that this might be an issue and I'd just appreciate that it's landing it on the Minister not quite at the last minute but I think there could be something in that which we might need to think about—Arena Williams: We're not at the last minute yet. Hon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL: Well no we're not quite at the last minute yet but we're getting there. I can see that the Minister has an answer just leaping off the tip of his tongue so I will sit down and let the Minister give his answer."