9. Question No. 9—EducationHon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central) to the Minister of EducationQuestion No. 9—Education9. Hon NIKKI KAYE (National—Auckland Central) to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by his statement For the vast majority of teachers that amounts to a $10000 pay increase over two years and that is a significant pay increase."; if so why?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Yes. There are around 30000 primary school teachers; 9580 of them are on step 12 which is the maximum step for those with a subject degree and a teaching qualification. They'll get an increase of $9532 over the term of the agreement. There are 8724 teachers on step 11 which is the maximum step for a teacher with a teaching degree. Their pay will increase by $11101 over the term of the agreement. This represents a pay increase on average of over $10000 for the vast majority of primary school teachers. There are around 25000 secondary school teachers; 15172 of them are on the top step for those with a degree and a teaching qualification. They get an increase of $9790 over the term of the agreement. There are 3014 secondary teachers on the top step for those with a teaching degree and they'll get an increase of $11583. This represents a pay increase in the vicinity of $10000 for the vast majority of secondary school teachers.Hon Nikki Kaye: What is the exact number of teachers being offered $10000 or more through collective bargaining?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I don't think the member listened to the answer to the primary question where I stepped all of that out in great detail.Hon Nikki Kaye: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked a very specific question. There is an issue here of the Minister misleading the public saying that teachers are getting $10000 when they're getting under $10000 and they have to pay tax on that and I'm asking the Minister a very specific question about how many are getting $10000.SPEAKER: And the Minister answered it.Hon Nikki Kaye: What is the exact number of teachers getting $10000 under the collective bargaining offer?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I'll happily run through the numbers again: 9580 primary school teachers are on step 12. They will get an increase of $9532. There are 8724 primary teachers on step 11. They'll get a pay increase of $11101. In terms of the 25000 secondary school teachers 15172 of those teachers are on the top step for those with a degree and a teaching qualification; they get $9790 and 3014 of those secondary school teachers will get an increase of $11583.Hon Nikki Kaye: Can he confirm that when he said the vast majority of teachers were getting $10000 he was misleading the public and there are more than 24000 teachers that are not?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: No I think I've stepped through those numbers in great detail.Hon Nikki Kaye: What does he say to the parents of secondary school teachers that are facing more than three days of potential strikes over the next five weeks given that he has been misleading the public around what they're getting paid? SPEAKER: Order!Hon Nikki Kaye: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The issue that I have here is we have 50000 teachers out there—SPEAKER: No no. That's not a point of order. If the member's not satisfied—I didn't rule the question out. The Minister has to answer it but I'm not going to be responsible for her satisfaction with his answers. I mean that would place me in an impossible position.Hon Nikki Kaye: Point of order.SPEAKER: No no hang on. The member can't have a point of order until the Minister's had an answer. The member's asked a question a Minister is to answer it and we'll see how we go.Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I utterly reject the notion that I'm misleading the public. I think that the answers that I've just given the member demonstrate very clearly that what I've been saying is absolutely factually correct.Hon Nikki Kaye: What is the time period for which teachers—particularly primary school teachers—have not had a pay rise given the gridlock there has been in collective bargaining?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: That depends of course whether it's primary or secondary school teachers because their collective agreements expired at different times. They've not had a pay increase since the last instalment of the last pay offer that they received. Their collective agreements expired last year and they've not had any further pay rises during that time.Hon Grant Robertson: How does the offer to primary and secondary school teachers compare with previous offers made over the last nine years?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Very good question. For the vast majority of teachers of course the offer is worth more than all of the settlements that were reached under the nine years of the last Government put together—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order! Even with hearing aids I had trouble hearing it. So I'm going to—no I'm not because it'll—[Interruption] We'll just—Nikki Kaye.Hon Nikki Kaye: In light of his statement that he will not shift the envelope for around 50000 teachers with regard to pay when will he commit to significant additional funds to reduce teacher workload?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Teacher workload isn't just about the amount of money that they get paid of course. Many of the things that have contributed to teacher workload are things that this Government is addressing. We've abolished national standards for example which the previous Government were advised would result in a significant increase in workload for no real increase in student achievement—which is exactly what happened. The review of NCEA has made some quite concrete recommendations that will significantly benefit secondary school teachers' workload particularly when it comes to assessment. I do acknowledge that it will take another couple of years before they see the advantages of that flowing through into their workload. There are a number of other areas of teacher workload which the Government is looking very closely at. For example we acknowledge that there are more children in classrooms who have additional learning needs or what we used to call special needs. It's one of the reasons why we committed last year to funding 600 additional learning support coordinators as a first instalment on the Government's overall commitment to put learning support coordinators in every school around the country. There are many things the Government is doing to address the workload that teachers are raising—they don't all involve paying teachers more.Hon Nikki Kaye: I seek leave to table information that demonstrates that the Minister's previous answer was incorrect. Actually the collective agreement—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member knows that she describes the document and that's all without the commentary.Hon Nikki Kaye: I seek leave to table the previous collective agreement from 2015 which indicates that the expiration was actually in 2017 not last year as he previously quoted.SPEAKER: Is there any objection—no hang on. The collective agreement's on a whole pile of websites so I'm not going to put it."