Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:649;Page:17763] 
7.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Can he confirm that management and administration staff at district health boards increased from 8250 at 30 June 2001 to 10236 as at 31 December 2007 as per answers to written questions; and is this in line with Government policy? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Minister of Health) 
: 
 I can confirm that under this Labour-led Government there has been a greater increase in front-line health workforce numbers. We are increasing our investment so that Kiwis can get the kind of health care they deserve. The percentage of district health board staff employed in management and administration has actually decreased from about 20 percent in 2001-02 to less than 19.5 percent today. The real question is how many of those extra front-line staff is National going to cut or does the public have to wait for Tony Ryall to slip up again just like he did on general practitioners’ fees before we find out what National’s real agenda is. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why will the Minister not confirm that the number of managers and administrators in the district health boards has increased by well over 2000 during Labour’s term in office and what action has he or any of his predecessors taken to halt this relentless growth in bureaucracy? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: If the member wants figures then let me give him figures. The increase in management and administration personnel was 1362—that is less than 2000 for the member’s information—medical personnel grew by a whopping 47 percent or 2188 and support staff actually declined by 199 or 8 percent. As I said at the start the proportion of front-line personnel went up; back-office personnel went down. What is the member’s problem? 
Lesley Soper 
: What reports has the Minister seen on the number of medical personnel employed by district health boards? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: The latest report I have shows that under this Labour-led Government there are over 2300 extra medical personnel and over 3000 extra nursing personnel employed by district health boards than there were back in 2001. That is over 5700 more front-line staff. Again for the member’s help the proportion of front-line staff has gone up and the proportion of management and administration staff has gone down. Unlike the National Party we are proud of our policies. People do not have to wait for someone in Labour to leak to find out what those policies are. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Have any of the extra managers and administrators employed at the Capital and Coast District Health Board explained to the Minister why that district health board has today reported a $40 million budget deficit why a new hospital is being built without enough beds and why its emergency department is unable to cope with the needs of this city? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: Some people always see the glass as being half empty. The fact is that Capital and Coast District Health Board does have a difficult transition time at the moment. It has a new regional hospital that is all but finished and it will be into it by the first half of next year. Of course it is under stress and it has had some historical problems. That is why this Government has put in a new chairman and Crown monitors and why there is a turn-round in progress. When we have problems we front up to them we fix them and we move forward. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Have any of the extra 150 managers and administrators employed at the Canterbury District Health Board explained why Christchurch Hospital told a woman who was 36 weeks pregnant to go back home across the Southern Alps on a bus with a $40 McDonald’s voucher why it has a budget blowout of $15 million and why it has admitted providing substandard cancer care to South Island patients? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: On any given day hundreds of thousands of services are provided to New Zealanders the vast majority of which are of a high standard but that one was not. The chairman of the West Coast District Health Board has publicly given his regrets for the way that woman was treated and I would add that it does not meet my expectations either. 
Paula Bennett 
: Have any of his hundreds of district health board managers told him that this weekend while the Waitakere Hospital emergency department was closed patients who went to nearby White Cross found that there was no doctor there; and how can it be that after the Government has spent millions on bureaucracy our fifth-largest city has an overworked and closed emergency department and there was not a single doctor on duty anywhere in the city? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: Let me repeat the facts once more for members. The facts are there are 3283 more nurses since 2001 there are 2188 more doctors since 2001 and there is a higher proportion of front-line staff today than when the National Party was in office. What is wrong with that picture? Nothing. We have invested across the board. We are bringing better health services to Kiwis—hey which is why it is on our top ten list and not National’s. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think the Minister should address the specific question. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: Waitakere Hospital’s accident and emergency services are a matter for the district health board to manage. Waitakere is very clearly under the impression that after-hours care is a matter that we are interested to see extended during its budget process and that is an ongoing conversation. 
Paula Bennett 
: Why was Waitakere Hospital’s emergency department closed 52 times in just 5 months of this year; and would not the money be better spent on our emergency department and after-hours care instead of on 146 extra managers at the Waitemata District Health Board? 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: The National Party just cannot help being slippery with figures can it? The first half of the question talked about Waitakere Hospital and the second half talked about the Waitemata District Health Board. As anyone who spent much time in the west would know unlike the member the two are not the same thing. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister did not address the question. Would he please address the question. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: It is impossible for me to make a meaningful comparison between statistics quoted from Waitakere Hospital compared against the Waitemata District Health Board when Waitakere Hospital is only one sub-component of that district health board. That is an answer to the question. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Is the Minister of Health prepared to admit that in quoting the numbers about additional doctors since the year 2001 he has failed to admit to the House that the Ministry of Health has changed the way that it counts the numbers of doctors in the public health system since that time such that it inflates the number by over 1000 places? If he wants to talk about being slippery he should come down and admit he has just deceived the House. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: What I consider to be slippery is the fact that when the member has access to the exact same information that I do—I know because I have sent it to him in answer to a written parliamentary question—he quotes an increase in management and administration personnel which is true but omits the fact that the number of support staff has decreased and he omits the fact that medical staff numbers and nursing staff numbers have increased by more and that as I understand it the statistics are on the same basis throughout which is consolidated numbers. The fact is that the National Party is just trotting out an alleged growth in bureaucracy for one simple reason. It is because Crosby/Textor has told National that it is a good key line for the campaign. The fact is that it bears no relationship to the truth. The truth is that the proportion has gone down. The member should admit that he is misleading the House and get on with life. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table a schedule that shows that the number of district health board managers and administrators has grown by over 2200 since— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table this document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: I seek leave to table information that shows that the number of support personnel in district health boards has decreased since 2001. 
Document not tabled. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: I seek leave to table information that shows that medical personnel numbers have increased by over 2000 or 47 percent— 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: I seek leave to table information that shows that the level of allied health personnel has grown by nearly 2000 or 22 percent since 2001. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE 
: I seek leave to table information that shows that nursing personnel numbers have grown by 3283 or 17 percent— 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Paula Bennett 
: I seek leave to table a board report from August 2005 that clearly states that the Waitemata District Health Board is contracting services to White Cross— 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table confirmation from the Ministry of Health that it has changed the way it counts— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is.