Yule LawrenceLAWRENCE YULE (National—Tukituki): I rise to speak on this amendment which inserts a new Part 4. I've sat here this afternoon listening to the contention around the winter energy payment. The real reason for that is it's both untargeted and a spray and walk away" type of approach. Actually what we need to do is if we're doing things like this we need to be able to measure them. So to have the Children's Commissioner reporting on an annual basis on how this winter energy plan is going to work I would think would be a very useful thing for this Government to have. If you look and I've done a bit of research and I think—[Interruption] Sorry. If we look at what's involved here and you look at what the Government has proposed then actually you will find it's very similar to the UK model only very different.Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.LAWRENCE YULE: Before we left for dinner I was talking about the UK winter energy package of which I presume this Government has chosen to follow a similar example. But in the UK it's a lot more targeted. There is actually also a cold payment—for really cold days you get an extra amount. Actually the older you are you get an extra amount. So it is way more targeted than what we are doing here. As part of the winter energy package and Part 4 we are talking about the Children's Commissioner having a role in managing and looking at and monitoring what the winter energy package does. We think that's important because when you look at the laudable goal of lifting people out of poverty and making sure they live in warm homes then there are a number of things that are really important: insulation; heating; clothing as already said by some of my colleagues earlier in the day; and even curtains. So how do you know actually if this winter energy package is going to do anything to alleviate poverty or improve living conditions if you don't measure it?The Children's Commissioner is an ideal way of measuring it and this side of the committee—and I'm sure you are really important about the welfare of our children. Unless we measure it we don't know this is going to work. There is actually no guarantee that this package will achieve what the Government wants for the most vulnerable people we're trying to look after: our young children and their families. It will work for many but we cannot be guaranteed it'll work for all and the Children's Commissioner is actually a perfect way of measuring this.I've sat in this Chamber this afternoon and listened to hours of debate actually and wonderful contributions from my side of the Chamber on the winter energy package. The reason I say that is because if the winter energy package and this part of the bill had gone to a select committee then many of the suggestions that this side of the Chamber has recommended today may actually have been incorporated into the bill. So our amendments and Part 4 which has been added are a genuine attempt by this side of the Chamber to make a difference to the children that we in this Committee are caring about. If we're not careful if we do not measure it we will end up in exactly the same situation as in the UK where next year there will have to be another amendment to it where in fact there will be different variants of it. Actually while most of this day has been spent on superannuitants as part of the winter energy package there is a big hole in this unless we measure it. So whether we spend money on heating clothing curtains insulation or paying people more there actually has to be a robust way of measuring this or actually we have no guarantee whatsoever that this scheme will work.When I entered this House I did so on the basis that we could make a difference to things and I think this Government is trying to make a difference to things in a positive way. But what I've seen and observed this afternoon is that actually we've spent a lot of time talking about something quite small and yet when we've tried to offer solutions that side of the Chamber has been dismissive hasn't been interested and hasn't even taken notice of it."