Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 19 March 2013. Volume:688;Page:8615. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
12. 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
 to the  
Minister responsible for Novopay 
: Is he confident that teachers will now be receiving the correct pay in future pay rounds; if not why not? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister responsible for Novopay) 
: 
 No not in the case of all teachers. Can I suggest that the member read some of the 10 media releases I have put out over the last 8 weeks that explain some of the issues with Novopay which are very complex. There will be no quick fix for it and the Government is working quickly on a range of fronts to address those issues. For the member’s benefit I will say that today I released the technical review into this school payroll system. It makes a number of conclusions: that the core software platforms are not currently stable that the system can be made stable with greater effort and capability from both the ministry and Talent2 and that inadequate quality assurance processes have contributed to the issues experienced. The report lays out a number of key milestones that the remediation plan currently under way is targeted to meet—that is dropping the number of complaints and notifications from 2.2 percent in a pay to less than 1 percent and we are making good progress in that respect. There is also a backlog clearing unit that has been set up and is gearing up now with the goal of reducing the backlog workload to business-as-usual levels by the end of June. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Can he give an assurance that no teacher who has been overpaid in one pay cycle and then underpaid in a subsequent pay cycle will be pursued for repayments before they have received all of the money they were due in the first place; if not why not? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: In terms of overpayments and underpayments the member will be aware that in relation to the Novopay system we have stopped any debt collection processes in regard to that. The debt collection that is going on now is for the 200 or so that were outstanding from the previous system. The whole purpose of the backlog clearance unit is to do exactly what the member talks about which is to progressively clear through those issues and ensure that they are put right for each staff member who is affected. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked about people being pursued for repayments. I was not asking about debt collection; I was asking about whether they were being pursued for repayments which is a slightly different take. I wonder whether the Minister could address that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member has further supplementary questions. I think the Minister very adequately addressed your question. You have further supplementary questions. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Is the Minister indicating in his answer that somebody who has experienced a series of pay problems will not be pursued for overpayments—not necessarily by debt collectors; they just will not be pursued for overpayments—until it is known exactly what the outcome of that is going to be? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: What is happening is that these issues are progressively getting solved. I cannot give the member a particular assurance on a particular method around a particular issue but what I can say is that if the member has anybody in that category or if anybody is in that category then they should contact the ministry and their issues will be addressed. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Did he ask how Talent2 was intending to recover overpayments when he was put in charge of Novopay; if not why not? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I asked a whole range of questions—not that particular one but could I point out to the member that in relation to that the system for recovering payments is exactly the same system that has been in place for many years with the same subcontractor and with the same process as has applied the entire time and in fact with the same people doing it. So there has been no change in that process for the last many years. 
Chris Hipkins 
: Given the massive backlog of problems with Novopay that were already evident when he became the Minister responsible for it why did he not think to ask what process was in place for recovering the overpayments and instruct Talent2 that sending debt collectors on to people who were still not being paid correctly perhaps was not such a good idea? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I would say that one of the things that was not a good idea was where we started in this whole place in the first place in terms of setting the contract up. Because one of the issues raised by the technical review— 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The Minister is attempting to answer your question. 
Chris Hipkins 
: No he is not. I did not ask him anything about the contract in the first place. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If we have a chance to listen to the answer—but if you are going to interrupt the answer we are not going to know whether the Minister has addressed it. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: The point I was making was that I inherited a situation that has created a whole range of issues that go back very many years including back to when that member was a ministerial adviser recommending in favour of the Novopay deal in Trevor Mallard’s office. The point is that in the 8 weeks that I have had the role I have chased down a whole—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! If the member continues with that I will have to ask him to leave the House. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Well tell him to tell the truth. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! It is completely unparliamentary to call anyone a liar in this House. The member will stand and withdraw those comments please. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I withdraw. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Supplementary question— 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister had not finished his answer. He has not actually addressed the question that I asked him in the first place. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am going to ask the member to ask the question again. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I do not think I can actually remember completely what the question was. Maybe the Minister could just address it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No if the member wants to repeat his question I have given him the opportunity. [ 
Interruption 
] OK. Has the member got further supplementary questions? 
Chris Hipkins 
: Why did he not give Talent2 a clear instruction before last week not to use debt collectors? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: In fact I did not have to because as soon as the matter came to light while I was still on a plane the Secretary for Education made his own decision that that would not proceed. The fact of the matter is that at that point I think seven people had been approached by debt collectors in relation to the Talent2 system and there were currently 200 people being approached by the previous system. The point is that the secretary acted as soon as it was brought to his attention. 
Rt Hon John Key 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I just noticed today that the sound system has been very quiet. It has been quite hard to hear the questioners and I wonder whether you could ask the technicians to have a look at it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will certainly do so. There have been some problems with the sound system. I was informed that it was operating but we will certainly have a look at it. I thank the Prime Minister for that.