Smith Nick: KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill — First Reading Second Reading In Committee Third ReadingText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeSmith Nick: KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill — First Reading Second Reading In Committee Third Reading[Sitting date: 21 May 2015. Volume:705;Page:3856. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment):I want to make just a brief contribution and to answer some of the questions the member James Shaw has raised. First of all there is a certain irony about debating a bill about savings when the very purpose of the KiwiSaver Budget Measures Bill is to help get the Government’s books back into the black. And all I hear consistent with every one of the 7 years we have been the Government is criticism from the Greens and from Labour as to why we are not spending. I am yet to hear a single member opposite give an idea as to how the Government might save money and get the country into the black. Members on the Government benches firmly support encouraging people to save. The Budget for next year provides for $643 million of Government support for saving. But there is a very important difference. Do we subsidise people opening accounts? Or do we subsidise people to save? There is a difference. What we are saying is that providing Government support for saving is something we support. Just opening a bank account actually does not get us far.Now can I specifically respond to the question from James Shaw. James Shaw asked a very pertinent question. He claimed that the number of people in KiwiSaver will decline over the next year. So I checked with the officials. There are currently 2.4 million people in KiwiSaver. Can I make another interesting point. When KiwiSaver was introduced in 2006 Dr Cullen said that “In the year 2015 we project there will be 700000 people in KiwiSaver.” In other words our Government has been successful in better embedding a savings culture with three times as many people in KiwiSaver than what even Dr Cullen projected. But here is the rub and here is the answer for Mr James Shaw. Currently there are 2.4 million people in KiwiSaver. How many are projected to be in KiwiSaver in 1 year’s time? One hundred thousand people more. One hundred thousand people more Mr Shaw will be in KiwiSaver in 1 year’s time because the Government is providing ongoing subsidies amounting to $521 every year for a person in KiwiSaver.I want to make one further point because I would love to get an answer from members on the Opposition benches. I use this quote—it is a word for word quote—“Is it right that a person over 65 on a full-time income should get this income supplement? There is a fairness question there. I cannot commit to keeping New Zealand superannuation universal.” That is word for word by Andrew Little. Does David Parker agree with that? Does Annette King agree with that?Hon Annette King: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. It was my understanding that in the Committee stage of a debate we ask the questions and he answers them.The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows): Not a point of order.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The point of order by Annette King speaks volumes about the embarrassment on the faces of every one of those Labour members. Let me ask the question again. Do they agree with the statement from Mr Andrew Little: “I cannot commit to keeping New Zealand superannuation universal.”? Does Annette King agree with it? Does David Clark agree with it? Does the deputy leader agree with it? Their silence is stunning. The silence is stunning. Can a single Labour member put their hand up if they agree with Andrew Little? Can a single Labour member put their hand up if they agree with Andrew Little? Well can I come to my members. Is there a single member on National’s side who agrees and supports John Key’s statement? Could they put their hand up? Yes indeed. You see that is the difference. We are united. We know what we stand for. What we do not have is a single member of the Labour Party who will support the statement on superannuation from its own leader.