Macindoe TimHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): Thank you Madam Speaker. I thoroughly enjoyed the contribution from our good friend the member for Northcote Dan Bidois before but I'd like to correct one aspect and to tell you Madam Speaker that you're doing a fantastic job. I'd just like to get that on the record.DEPUTY SPEAKER: You shouldn't bring the Speaker into it.Hon TIM MACINDOE: I know that the sponsor in charge of the bill asked us not to do this but I am going to acknowledge the member for Te Tai Tonga Rino Tirikatene because I think I could probably speak for every member of this House by saying that he is one of the most respected likable and genial members of this Parliament and I don't for one moment question his sincere intent in putting this bill forward. I congratulate him for getting it to its second reading. But I'm afraid nor can I support the bill because I believe it is neither necessary nor justified.I think that it is important—if it hasn't been stated already—to state that the reason the Māori seats were created back in 1867 was because at that time property ownership was the prerequisite to being able to vote. So the Māori seats were created because communal Māori land ownership meant that Māori did not qualify. Now with the benefit of hindsight standing here in 2019 we can all see how outrageous that was and so I don't think anybody would suggest that that wasn't a very very fair and important reason for creating them. But we have long since moved on from that point.I'm going to move for a moment just to making a few personal observations and so I need to stress these are not the policy or the position of the party I'm so proud to represent in this Parliament but I do believe that they're relevant to my reason for not being able to support this bill.The first one is I do not like arguments that pit one race against another. The second is I do believe—very important; I do believe—that extra support is justified and often necessary for those who are most disadvantaged in our society and that special targeted investment and assistance is appropriate if we want all our young people or tamariki to thrive and make the most of the opportunities all New Zealand Governments of recent times have aspired to and argued for. I think that the Hon Willie Jackson's claim earlier that not voting for this bill would be a breach of the Treaty partnership is absolute nonsense. I do believe that a strong Māori voice is necessary in public debate and to achieve sound governance so I do not argue for the abolition of Māori seats but nor would I ever vote to entrench themI don't believe that any change to the arrangements for Māori seats should be considered in isolation or under the current MMP electoral system. That's partly because I believe that if a competition were ever to be held to design the most ludicrous electoral system MPP would be a clear winner. That doesn't mean that I favour a return to first past the post. I don't because I think that's very undemocratic and there are benefits to MMP that we can all testify to and that I think would be a shame to lose. But what I am saying is that there are better and fairer proportional representation systems and I sincerely hope that one day we will switch to one not least to restore the power to choose the Government to the voters of New Zealand rather than to the leader or leaders of a couple of minor parties because that is a gross abuse of democracy and it's something we've languished under for too long. So I don't believe that this debate tonight is necessary or even useful in isolation.I'll finish with a few of my party's views not just my own. As has been indicated National is not supporting the entrenchment of Māori seats and we believe it would be very strange and unjustified to do so when other important aspects of our electoral system are not entrenched such as the number of MPs in total or our MMP process for list seats allocation the five percent threshold and so on. It is our policy and has been for some time in the National Party that we will not remove the Māori seats unless Māori themselves decide that they no longer need them. So Mr Tirikatene's fear that he expressed in his speech earlier this evening that Māori seats could be removed easily and without warning does in my view seem totally to lack foundation. We in the National Party are committed to ensuring that Māori succeed alongside other New Zealanders in terms of economic health and social wellbeing. That isn't just a platitude; it is something that is very dear to my heart and to those of my colleagues. The National Party has a very proud record of supporting Māori to get ahead and enjoy the best of opportunities in this wonderful country that we're all so privileged to live in. I think I can't put it any clearer by saying that I want the same education healthcare career prospects prosperity and security for every young Māori that I want for my own children. But they don't need the Māori seats to enjoy those opportunities and experiences as Pākehā Pasifika Asian or other ethnicities who make up this wonderful and diverse community can testify to.So while I applaud the member for his good intent and for bringing this bill forward I do believe that there are very clear and compelling reasons why it shouldn't be supported. I'm very disappointed and surprised that nobody from the New Zealand First Party has yet taken a call but I trust that the Hon Shane Jones shortly will do so because that party's position really could be crucial. I hope therefore—it looks as if he's about to take the call—he'll make his position clear but we won't be supporting this bill tonight.DEPUTY SPEAKER: I understand this is a split call and I call the Hon Shane Jones.