English Bill: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
English Bill: Human Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:620;Page:15911] 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
: 
 It does seem odd that Mr Franks might agree with the regulation of lawyers but not with the regulation of the production of humans because that is what the bill is about. If anything Parliament’s interest in the issue is to do with the fact that a growing proportion of human assisted reproductive technology is publicly funded and Parliament should always be interested in the ethical use of public funds. 
I signal some concern about the way Part 1 is structured. It does not really cover research which will be important in our consideration of Part 2. A fair bit of the focus of the principles and purposes of the bill is to do with the benefits of assisted reproductive procedures. There is a strong focus on reproductive procedures—in particular on those of women and children—and the use of those procedures in research. Of course a growing proportion of the activity is in research for its own sake. It is for the production of human tissue for the purposes of research not for the purposes of reproduction. Substantial numbers of embryos can be created without any intent to use them in reproduction. According to the rules here scientists can do whatever they want to with the human tissue created in the first 10 days fully intending to destroy or not progress the tissue beyond that 10 days. 
I am concerned that the principles in clause 4 are laid out as if it is all about offspring and babies being born. I would be interested if the member could tell me a bit more about that because the more I have thought about it the more I think Parliament’s concern should focus on the scope and direction of research. A lot of the issues around reproduction are not new. Mr Franks might think Parliament deals with this issue regularly because it is sexy but it has actually taken years to get to this stage. Having some legislation is certainly better than having none but in that time committees have dealt with a lot of the issues to do with reproduction. In my view what lies ahead of us are much greater challenges to do with the issue of the research carried out on embryos however one wants to define their existence. 
Part 1 seems to me to be sadly lacking in that respect. It provides a useful framework for coming to decisions about established procedures—that is the things that have been going on—and it is quite a useful device but it is not a very useful framework for dealing with what might happen next. While some feel very confident that scientific research will follow paths that most people are happy with others of us do not share that confidence. There is no reason to believe that that will automatically be the case. In my view the purpose and principles are weak in that respect. 
I particularly want to look at how the select committee dealt with the paramount issue the welfare of the child. There is I suppose a sensible scientific view about risk. Those procedures are risky. In fact from a natural point of view they are hugely inefficient and wasteful procedures. An enormous amount of production goes on and a very small number of offspring come out the other end. I know those efficiency rates are increasing somewhat. We know very little about why so many in vitro fertilisations fail. I suspect that it is because the process is much more open to genetic mistakes and that is one reason why a lot of the gametes produced do not survive. 
 So it is a hugely risky process. But I do not like that sense of risk about the scientific procedure being seen as some kind of qualification on how we should see the risk to the offspring. While we know the procedures themselves are risky I am disappointed to see that the committee came to the conclusion that the health and well-being of the children born should not be paramount but should only be an important consideration.