Norman Russel William: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Norman Russel William: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:649;Page:17982] 
1. Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: What would do more to achieve her aspiration of a carbon-neutral New Zealand: spending $1.9 billion on the Waterview motorway project or putting that same money towards completing and upgrading the Auckland passenger rail network? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Obviously achieving the aspiration of carbon neutrality requires action on many fronts including through investment in public transport and I would say through the development of more environmentally friendly ways of powering vehicles. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is the Prime Minister not aware that every study into this issue demonstrates that building more roads does not reduce congestion and that even a roading fanatic like Maurice Williamson said in 1999 in a rare flash of exuberance— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member will please be seated. Just ask the question. I know that everyone wants to be a comedian in this place and wants to be able to make other comments. There is a general debate after question time. Just ask the question and that goes for all members who are asking questions today and replying. Keep it straight. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is the Prime Minister not aware that every study into this issue demonstrates that building more roads does not reduce congestion and that even Maurice Williamson said in 1999 as Minister of Transport that “Building more and more roads in congested areas on many occasions results in more congestion … and more pollution”; if even Maurice Williamson can get it why can her Government not get it? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I said in the House yesterday that the Government supports completing what have been long-held plans in Auckland for the roading network. But the Government absolutely agrees with the member that there is no “roads only” solution to congestion. Investment in public transport is extremely important. That is why the Government has spent an enormous amount of money in partnership with Auckland local bodies on upgrading Auckland’s rail lines on double tracking and on new station infrastructure and it is why we have committed something like half a billion dollars to the electrification project. All of these are important investments that give people viable alternatives to the private car on the road. 
Keith Locke 
: How can the Prime Minister’s Government go ahead with the Waterview Connection when in a letter to me the Transit chairman said that the future price of oil does not feature at all in Transit’s assumptions that the project’s benefit-cost ratio is a miserable 1:0 and that for some strange reason the motorway is projected to be completely full in 2015 when it is projected to open? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As I said in the House yesterday part of the Government’s overall Energy Strategy sees this country being an early adapter of electric car technology. A lot of research is going into alternatives to the petroleum-powered car. Over time there will be I am sure technology solutions that come along as oil becomes more and more expensive and presumably at some time beyond our lifetimes perhaps not available at all. So I think the member is looking at the issue a little too narrowly if he thinks the future of the private car on the road is dependent on oil-fuelling vehicles. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Is it not a bit premature to build roads for electric cars when the Government’s own Energy Strategy projected last year that electric cars will form only 5 percent of the fleet by 2020 and when this motorway is brand new is being built at a time of declining traffic in Auckland and is due to open in 2015? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As I have consistently said the Government supports the completion of the Auckland roading network but I have consistently said the completion of that network is not in itself a solution to roading congestion in Auckland. The solution lies in a dual approach whereby we encourage not only the use of public transport—in which we are investing 15 times as much per annum as the level of investment we inherited after the 1999 election—but also other forms of demand management like encouraging walking school buses and encouraging people to walk cycle use ferries and so on. 
Peter Brown 
: Will the Prime Minister confirm that roading congestion in Auckland is estimated to cost the economy of New Zealand $1 billion a year and that it is a priority that something is done about the roading system in Auckland? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As anyone who travels in Auckland knows it is bedevilled by congestion and there is a heavy economic cost to that. Part of the answer is completion of the roading network but a very significant part of the answer is the big investments we are making in public transport and they include the big investments in rail. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Is it not true that no matter how many emissions trading schemes we get started on we will not make progress towards her goal of carbon neutrality or reducing congestion as long as the Government as outlined in its National Land Transport Programme spends $12 billion on new roads alone while spending only a quarter of that amount on all the sustainable alternatives put together—public transport walking cycling and the rest—with the result that motorists who want to reduce their carbon emissions have no choice but to take their cars? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The reason for investments in public transport being 15 times the level they were in 1999 is precisely to give as many people as possible that choice. 
Keith Locke 
: I seek leave to table a letter from Bryan Jackson the acting chair of Transit in which he says Transit has not made any projections for the future— 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.