1. Question No. 1—Prime MinisterTODD MULLER (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime MinisterTUESDAY 30 JUNE 2020The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.Prayers.ORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Prime Minister1. TODD MULLER (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does her Government have a strategy for ensuring appropriate standards are in place to detect track and trace new cases of COVID-19 so that New Zealand's border can be progressively opened ahead of the development of an effective vaccine; if so what is it?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): I'd like to answer this question in two parts. Firstly as a Government we have worked hard to scale up our contact tracing significantly. This has included providing $55 million to support public health units and contact tracing; extended capacity to make 10000 calls per day; and ensuring public health units are using a national contact tracing system with the final one now coming on board. However the suggestion that this should be done as a tool to reopen our borders is wrong. Contact tracing is a tool to keep people safe; border controls are too. At a time when cases are surging globally and the World Health Organization says the hard reality is this is not even close to being over" to suggest that we should simply reopen the borders and rely on contact tracing no matter how good it is is frankly dangerous.Todd Muller: Does she agree with Kirk Hope of Business New Zealand that working toward some opening of the border needs to be an urgent priority?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: My assumption would be from the many conversations I've had with Kirk Hope that he would support doing that in a way that is safe. At the moment when we have 10 million cases reported globally when we have the potential for South Asia and Africa not even having peaked yet states in the United States now surging the suggestion that right now is the time to open the borders and rely on contact tracing is as I say frankly dangerous. When it comes to my conversations with Mr Hope I've found them to be constructive. The view I've heard from business is: don't put in jeopardy our freedom domestically—the fact our domestic economy is open—by opening up too early and too soon.Todd Muller: Is she confident New Zealand can open its border to international travellers without a vaccine?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: A vaccine is not the only thing that will make a difference in the globe's fight against COVID-19. Other things that will be game-changers will be for instance successful treatment; whether or not we see a change in the way this pandemic is spreading although we haven't seen it to date; yes as the member says a vaccine; but also rapid and accurate testing technology has the potential to change the dynamic globally. Right now though the reality is many countries who have the economic freedoms we do currently are using their borders as a line of defence. That will continue to be the case while we see this pandemic surging.Todd Muller: What specific conditions would need to be met by other countries for the New Zealand border to be opened to their travellers?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Some of the discussions we've had and continue to have actively and in just the past weeks and days with Australia are around preconditions to ensure that we preserve each other's status because there are obviously states in Australia that are in a very similar position to ours. So it is around things like whether or not there is community transmission and how long states have been free of that whether or not there is adequate contact tracing testing capacity and things that indicate a similar system and regime to ours that can give us confidence that if an area is declaring itself free of community transmission that that is the case. We have however put in some acknowledgment that many of our Pacific Island neighbours including Realm countries are reliant on us for testing so that may mean there is a slight delay in their testing time frames.Todd Muller: If there is no community transmission in some states in Australia does that meet her comfort in terms of opening up the New Zealand border with those individual states if they have no community transmission and have rigorous tracking and tracing regimes as she just said?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: It's actually a question better placed to Prime Minister Scott Morrison. We have been doing the work to make sure that we have—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Order! I'll just say that most of the noise is coming from my left but I'd rather only have one Minister answering the question.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We have been doing the work to make sure that when we are in a time and place when that threshold can be met by Australia that we are ready. However it is ultimately a matter for Australia as to whether or not they choose to open up at a federal level in which case it may take longer for them to reach that status or whether or not they move state by state. That is a matter for Australia.Todd Muller: What conditions and criteria would need to be occurring in this country for a safe reopening of the border with Australia?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Obviously it would be a reciprocal arrangement so the preconditions I've already just set out around days free of community transmission the ability to test contact trace that's actually based on what we ask of ourselves in the same way we would be asking of anyone that we would be creating a travel bubble with.Todd Muller: How many days free would New Zealand need to be and what level of accurate robust track and tracing would need to be met before the Prime Minister would be satisfied that New Zealand would be in a position to meet the equivalent standard in Australia?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We are meeting our own standard already for opening up but again the member is asking me what standards Australia would want to set against us. That is for them to determine. When it comes to Australia we ultimately want to assure ourselves quite simply that if we open up our borders we do not import cases. Now either the member agrees with that criteria or he doesn't. If he doesn't it's for him to answer to New Zealanders.Todd Muller: What expectations would she have of the Australian Government and their testing regime and their community transmission and their cases for her to feel comfortable that the New Zealand border could open?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The same expectations we have opening ourselves up in the way we have. I have answered multiple times: the ability to quickly contact trace the ability to process testing in quick time the absence of community transmission. If the member is suggesting that when Victoria is declaring 75 cases in one day and community transmission that we should be opening up to that state currently the member is out of step with the New Zealand public. That has not stopped us continuing to do the work but the member may wish to reflect on whether or not it is good for the economy to have us move up alert levels because of an outbreak brought in over the border.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Prime Minister should we despite there being a spike in COVID-19 cases in Beijing open our borders with China as Mr Muller from the National Party suggests?Todd Muller: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Apart from knowing me for 30 years and he still can't get my name right that is not what I have said and I have never said that directly. SPEAKER: The member's word must be taken.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. A member's word must be taken but if that question has been put at least four times in this House—and the Hansard will attest to that—on the fifth time he can't ask us to surely believe his word.SPEAKER: Well I'm not sure that the member is correct in that particular area. I think the precedent for a question being asked is indicative but my feeling is that speed is not necessarily required. The member has given the House an assurance that he did not say that and we must take his word.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Speaking to the point of order what are the consequences if it can be proven that he did say that?SPEAKER: You mean that he did say that? Well the member knows as well I do what the consequences of that are. Hon Ron Mark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can we take it from that ruling therefore that no longer do members of Parliament have to seek leave of the House to make a personal statement; they can simply take a point of order refute a comment and you will accept it as their word and the whole of the House now has to accept it?SPEAKER: Well the short answer is yes. That is the long-time precedent here and that is that all members are honourable members and when they make a statement especially with regard to something that they have said or they have not said their word is taken. The consequences for misleading the House in that circumstance as a number of members should know is very serious.Hon Grant Robertson: What is the Prime Minister's response to the statement from National Party leader Todd Muller that it was critically important that we considered broadening the bubble beyond Australia: "It's totally appropriate that Australia is our number one priority but concurrently we need to be thinking around 'so how do we open up to China what does that look like?' "Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I would confirm what I've said many times in this House: regardless of the overseas country we are considering the criteria needs to be the same—that is the safety of New Zealanders the ability to keep our economy open and our ability to move around domestically freely. Importing cases puts all of that at jeopardy. Todd Muller: To the Prime Minister again could she please confirm for New Zealand what is the criteria that would meet her satisfaction for the border of New Zealand to be opened to other countries?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: For the third or possibly fourth time: a country or state being free of community transmission the ability to rapidly contact trace along the same criteria that we have in New Zealand and the ability for rapid turn-around of testing so that we can be assured of the public data for any country being accurate data from which we make our judgments. To come back to the principle of what the member seems to be getting at the suggestion that somehow New Zealand is standing in the way of opening up a trans-Tasman bubble is simply incorrect. There are two issues at play. One community transmission in Australia—the idea that we would open up to the entire nation right now I think is out of step with where the New Zealand public is and would threaten our position. Secondly the possibility of state-by-state openings is not a matter for New Zealand; it is a matter for Prime Minister Morrison and is up to him. If the member takes issue with that he should contact his counterparts in Australia. Todd Muller: Does she foresee some opening of the border perhaps to certain countries in the first half of 2021?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: We are working as we speak for arrangements to ensure that if there is a time and place where it is safe to do so and that it meets our criteria we will be ready to do that. We've started with trans-Tasman. That work is still under way but again I say to the member: if he believes New Zealanders want us to open up our borders without any concern for their public safety the member is well out of step with the public sentiment.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Prime Minister on the question of opening up the border with China has she seen the Stuff article of 25 May—that's last month—where Mr Muller said "How can we move into other countries like China in due course"?Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I refer to Speakers' ruling 159/5 that states: "It is not reasonable to use questions from the governing party or its support parties to attack other members of the House." It was an original Speaker's ruling by Lockwood Smith reinforced by—SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat.Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Look as I've said actually I would say there are a number of countries that actually have experienced prolonged periods without COVID and where that has then changed. South Korea has been one where we've looked to; Singapore; obviously Australia. This is a highly uncertain time where this Government has been focused on giving domestic certainty to those who are trying to reopen their businesses get the economy going in a globe where there is such uncertainty. That has to be our focus and that is our priority."