Ardern Jacinda: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeArdern Jacinda: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 03 December 2015. Volume:710;Page:8547. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.JACINDA ARDERN (Labour) to the Minister for Building and Housing: What evidence or research led to his decision to change pool safety legislation that has been in place in New Zealand for well over 20 years?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for Building and Housing): The evidence and research to change the pool safety legislation was contained in an announcement by the then Minister Shane Jones in early 2008 when he announced that a review was needed and published a substantive report. At the time Mr Jones said that the Act was outdated that compliance was inconsistent between councils that Labour wanted to make the Act more flexible and that it needed to reflect modern house design. I have difficulty disagreeing with Mr Jones.Jacinda Ardern: Did he mislead Parliament with his estimates provided to Parliament alongside his bill given that this morning the Children’s Commissioner called the numbers that he has used inaccurate and stated that the net effect of the law he has drafted is likely to see an increase and not a decrease in the number of children who will drown?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The numbers that I have provided were in the advice provided by the ministry. The reason I have confidence that this bill will actually increase the safety of our swimming pools is that if we look at the reports of coroners the issue is non-compliance with the current law. The reality is that many councils have no requirement for regular inspections. This bill makes two important changes: it requires councils to regularly inspect the fencing and secondly it requires those who are constructing pools to actually notify the owners of their legal obligations.Jacinda Ardern: Who is right: he and the pool industry who want 5-yearly inspections rather than the current 3-yearly inspections or those who have argued against his proposed changes including Water Safety New Zealand Plunket Safekids the Children’s Commissioner and even Wellington City Council which he claims he is trying to help?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The member is incorrect. The current law does not require councils to regularly inspect pools. In fact 30 of our current councils have advised my ministry that they have no programme for regular inspections and that is why our view is that there should be regular inspections. There is a debate between the Local Government and Environment Committee as to whether that should be 3-yearly or 5-yearly. I would invite the select committee to hear the evidence and ensure that we have a regime that makes our pools as safe as possible.Jacinda Ardern: How many times has he or his department met with the pool industry regarding these reforms?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I cannot advise the number of times that my ministry has met with them. I suspect that the previous Minister Shane Jones who announced the policy probably did meet with the pool industry. I know that the Labour caucus in 2008 supported Mr Jonesat the time.Jacinda Ardern: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked how many times he as the Minister who has drafted this legislation—drafted this legislation—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am going to invite the member to ask that question but you also asked as I recall the question how many times he or his officials met and he certainly—[Interruption] Order! He certainly answered immediately that he could not answer on behalf of his officials. If the member wants an additional supplementary question to ask the very question about how many times the Minister has met with the industry I will give her the opportunity.Jacinda Ardern: Can he confirm that the pool industry has lobbied his Government which has presided over these changes over the past 7 years to make these changes because according to an email from Master Pool Builders it believes it will reverse the downturn in pool construction?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Some of the key policy decisions on this issue were actually announced by Shane Jones and I cannot comment on how many times the then Labour Government met with the industry. I can advise the member that in terms of my own position I have met with both paediatricians and advocates for child safety and I have also met with people in the pool industry. I just simply invite members who are concerned to let the select committee do a good job of ensuring that we have got practical law because for instance I do not think it is sensible at the moment. I actually think a lockable pool cover on a spa pool is a sensible way to manage child safety rather than the current law which requires a fence round such an arrangement.