Bishop ChrisCHRIS BISHOP (National): Thank you very much Mr Chair. A couple of questions for each Minister. The first is to Minister Woods in relation to build-to-rent housing. So the interest deductibility stuff's a good step forward but if you talk to those in the sector they will tell you that there are a couple of other changes required to the Income Tax Act and the Overseas Investment Act 2005 to really get build-to-rent housing going. Of course I have a member's bill—shout-out and a plug for that—in the ballot in relation to that. I wonder if the Government's intention is to make those technical tax changes as well and if so when we can expect to see a bill in relation to that.The second issue is in relation to comments just made by Minister Marama Davidson. A very interesting comment in relation to the data on families in cars because of course the Government's own data shows that there's been a roughly fourfold increase in the number of families who are living in cars when they apply for the social housing register at point of the application; 108 in December 2017 to 480 on 30 June 2022 is obviously appalling. The Minister said We're working on better data collection." and that piqued my interest because I wonder if she could expand a little bit further on what exactly that means. One of the enduring frustrations of housing has been getting better data around homelessness. I note that the member when she was in Opposition made quite a lot of the 41000 figure. We heard Debbie Ngarewa-Packer mention it in her contribution in the debate. There was a cross-party inquiry and the 40000 figure was bandied around quite a lot. I've been asking questions to the Minister of Statistics around definitions of "homelessness" and any work that Stats New Zealand's doing and I think the short point is that he doesn't want to know about any of it for a variety of different reasons. So we do need better data is my overall point. She's right.Hon Marama Davidson: Agreed.CHRIS BISHOP: OK. Well how does that look what are you going to do about it and what is that better data going to be? I think we would all look forward to that.Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Associate Minister of Housing (Homelessness)): Thank you. One thing I want to raise from your kōrero Mr Bishop is yes we need data—some of that is raw numbers—but I just want to highlight that the Homelessness Action Plan also encourages Government to forge stronger relationships with our community leaders. Now something that has been missing for decades in fact is community narrative data. So while numbers can tell us something and some outcomes what has been missing and has the opportunity to really better inform the richness of our work and solutions is the community insights and narratives. So it might not just be yeah we've put someone into a whare and we've wrapped some support around them. Some of the kuia for example at Manurewa Marae describe how they can't always easily put into their tick-boxes the impact of a person who is starting to trust people turning up to her door with her young children in her whare when never ever before was she even feeling able to engage with services. So that sort of narrative Mr Bishop. I hope you'll look forward to us working together collectively across the House: community leaders and sector experts giving us those valuable insights as to the lived experiences. The drivers of homelessness can really only be dug into with the voice and the understanding of the lived experience. So that is one of the extra additional pieces of information about that data improvement that I wanted to raise.Also Mr Bishop for homelessness it's important that we understand the system barriers and the opportunities for intervention. So again not just numbers of people in any particular situation but at what point have things fallen down? At what point has the system despite people doing their best put up further barriers or even just not given the more rounded support? Again it's important that improving data recognises the different needs across different communities. So the Homelessness Action Plan for example is digging down into what it is that young rainbow people are encountering in homelessness and across the system what it is that disabled people are coming up against and so on and so forth.So yes Mr Bishop there is an improvement of raw data and I guess numbers and being able to pick up population numbers and impacts absolutely. But it's data and evidence work that there is a programme to deliver to also improve how we know that what we are doing is actually effective at all. That includes improving the tools to measure progress towards the action plan vision. So thank you for the question. I just wanted to offer up those additional pieces of information as well."