Chhour Karen; Sepuloni CarmelKAREN CHHOUR (ACT): Thank you Mr Chair. Minister I just was looking at one of the Supplementary Order Papers that's been put forward in your name and part of me is relieved that the change was made and another part of me is kind of a bit disappointed that it took this long to get it written into this bill. I mean I've constantly heard talk about how this bill has been in progress since 2019 I think it was—2018—how you've been looking at ways we can strengthen the oversight of Oranga Tamariki and how important it is we get this done very very quickly. I look at the purpose of this bill and the purpose of this bill is to uphold the rights and interests and improve the well-being of children and young people who are receiving or have previously received services or support through … Oranga Tamariki"—that's great. It's a great purpose to have. But why did it take so long to add "best interests" into this bill? I mean surely the best interests of children and young people should have been one of the first things that was stuck in this bill.There were so many submissions where young people and organisations were concerned that the bill was more about protecting the organisation itself rather than protecting our young people. So I look at clause 5 "Principles" and I see that we've added a few things in: the best interests of children and young people—yep the perspectives of children and young people. I thought "Yay! Something really good's come out of the opposition coming from this side." But then I read it and I think well actually it doesn't have much teeth because it's only they must "have regard to" best interests and "regard" to the perspectives of children and young people. Unfortunately Minister I've seen what having regard to children's voices has been like in the last six months and it ain't that hot. So where are the teeth? Where's the making sure that the best interests actually are paramount when it comes to young people and their best interests? We've done this in other children's Acts. We've done this in the Oranga Tamariki Act where we define the best interests of the children. They become you know the basis of the whole bill. The best interest is the first thing that matters ahead of absolutely everything else. I'm just wondering if the Minister would be willing to define the best interest better and give it more teeth than just "having regard to".Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): It's explicitly required what we've got in there. The member pointed out that she's disappointed that it came late and it should have been done earlier. As I said before in reference to the Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) in front of us basically we are further enhancing and providing assurance around the protections. An example of where the wording is changed slightly was that previously it was about "interests" as opposed to "best interests" and so the SOP emphasises that. Previously this part referred to "voices of children" and now we've added "perspectives of children" as well. So we are trying to further emphasise the absolute importance of ensuring that children and rangatahi are at the centre of this bill. I have traversed the SOPs and explained why. Hopefully that explanation with regards to the point of difference is clear."