9. Question No. 9—EducationDr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of EducationQuestion No. 9—Education9. Dr SHANE RETI (National—Whangarei) to the Minister of Education: Does he stand by all his statements and actions in relation to the Fees Free policy? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister of Education): Absolutely yes. I stand by the policy that has meant around 80000 New Zealanders haven't had to borrow for their tertiary fees for their first year of study or training. That's a sizeable chunk off the cost that New Zealanders face when embarking on post-school education and training and it means that once they've finished they are better placed to get on with life without a huge debt burden weighing them down. Dr Shane Reti: Did more first-year university students fail all of their courses last year after fees-free than before fees-free as stated in written questions? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I think what the member is alluding to is that it will show that actually overall the number of students who passed their course versus failed their course compared to the previous year suggests that there has been a slight reduction in the number of people who have failed their first-year course. I don't have the sector-specific breakdown of that but it suggests overall actually in terms of pass and fail the rates are broadly the same as they were in previous years. Dr Shane Reti: In response to that question did in 2017 990 first-year fees-free students fail and in first-year fees-free 1080 failed their first-year papers? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As I said it's about the same and actually if you look at overall numbers of people participating in fees-free to include all of the sectors in fact it's a slight reduction in the number of people failing their first-year course. Marja Lubeck: Did he give consideration in deciding the fees-free policy to make making the final year free rather the first? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Yes we did. It would be a very university-centric view and it would mean that a number of people would be excluded from the fees-free policy particularly those who are undertaking shorter-form courses in polytechnics or institutes of technology or private training establishments or wānanga and it would of course have a detrimental impact on those undertaking apprenticeships or industry training study which is the reason why we went to first-year fees-fee—because it meant that everybody a much larger proportion of students would actually benefit. Dr Shane Reti: Did more first-year Māori students fail at least one course after fees-free last year than before fees-free as stated in written questions? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As I've said the overall number of people who have failed a course—now bearing in mind that a course and a programme are different things so people might undertake a number of different courses. Based on that metric unfortunately I would be in those statistics had I had I had my first year free because at my first year at university I failed one of my papers because I didn't actually show up to any of the classes in it and I didn't withdraw in time to get my money back. Many people will actually complete a programme of study but may fail one course or may not withdraw from one course in time to get the refund. That doesn't mean that they're failing their programme of study. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I confirm from the Minister that the reason why the third year wasn't chosen over the first year which was was that the third year would be snobbish and elitist and that's why we didn't go down that course? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: As I said making the third year free rather than the first year free would be a very university-centric view of fees-free education. We want to make sure that those who are undertaking training in things like the trades for example benefit from this policy and that's why we went with the first year free. Dr Shane Reti: What is the total underspend in the fees-free policy this year to date? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Of course that's subject to change because the numbers do move around a little bit and we'll release those details once they are finalised. Dr Shane Reti: Is the stated $197 million underspend in fees-free part of a deliberate policy to underspend in fees-free to fund the reform of vocational education? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: No. What it does recognise is that for several years pre-dating this Government the polytech sector has been on a downwards trajectory in terms of the number of people who are undertaking study or training in polytechs. Whilst it has levelled out that has not rebounded. Partly that's a result of a very strong labour market at the moment. There are very attractive job opportunities for people so they're going directly into those rather than into study. But it has put our polytech system under significant financial pressure and that's one of the reasons why the Government is undertaking that reform programme. We're not willing to abandon our regional polytechs to financial rack and ruin which was what was happening.