Clark David: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeClark David: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 31 March 2016. Volume:712;Page:10091. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]6.Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour—Dunedin North) to the Minister for Economic Development: Who has provided payroll services to the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment since it was formed in 2012?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development): It is the same provider that provided payroll services to the largest of the forerunner agencies since 1999 which is the Department of Labour. The provider which was identified publicly this morning is Advanced Management Systems Ltd. The Department of Labour was the largest of the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment’s four forerunner agencies in terms of staff numbers and it was migrated across in 2014. The Department of Labour signed a contract for payroll services with Advanced Management Systems back in 2004.Dr David Clark: Does he expect to quantify the size of liability owed across New Zealand due to Holidays Act breaches; if so when?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I do not have any ministerial responsibility for doing that. My responsibility as Minister is the monitoring of the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment. In terms of the ministry it is working on its scoping out of the solution to the problem at the moment and I will keep the House and the public updated with that.Dr David Clark: Can he give a categorical assurance to doctors nurses public servants and all of Advanced Management Systems’ 50000 other payroll clients—who are receiving $3.5 billion in wages annually—that they are not exposed to underpayment problems similar to those that have beset the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: There are a couple of things there. Firstly I am not responsible for Advanced Management Systems. It is more than capable of speaking for itself. In terms of underpayment the member has to be a little bit careful because this is a calculation around annual leave and it is about the calculation of ordinary-time earnings versus average weekly earnings. The member I know is disposed to hyperbole but actually this is a widespread but not necessarily large issue for individual employees.Dr David Clark: What action has he taken since receiving advice on 5 October last year—nearly 6 months ago—to quantify how many millions of dollars his ministry owes staff in back-pay as a result of failing to comply with the law?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The ministry has been working on that issue as I said since October last year. [Interruption] Well of course the law was passed back in 2003 by a Labour Government that promptly forgot about it so 6 months compared with 13 years is probably a reasonable time for them to work it out. I could say to the member that actually the Labour Government was warned that there would be issues when the law was originally passed back in 2003.Dr David Clark: Can he confirm that pack-house employees affected by Holidays Act legal breaches announced by his ministry yesterday are additional to the 24000 affected employees identified in the previous 20 investigations the labour inspectorate conducted?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Questions in regard to the labour inspectorate have to be put to the Minister for employment relations. The member is confusing the roles. It is very important that we keep it separate because the labour inspectorate has the job of regulating the sector. In terms of the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment as the monitoring Minister I am responsible for the payroll. [Interruption] There are a few excitable ones over there but I think that is the key point.Dr David Clark: Given his previous answer and when prominent employment lawyer Olivia Grant says that the majority of issues she is seeing relate to changes to the Holidays Act in 2011 following the Government’s full review of the Act in 2010 does the Minister understand this as a signal that he needs to step up and take some responsibility?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: That was positively “Cunliffean” that particular approach. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The question has been asked. You now need to listen to the answer.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Actually Mr Speaker can you get the member to repeat the question? It has been so long I cannot recall it.Mr SPEAKER: On that basis I will invite the member to repeat the question.Dr David Clark: Certainly. When prominent employment lawyer Olivia Grant says that the majority of issues she is seeing relate to changes to the Holidays Act in 2011 following the Government’s full review of the Act in 2010 does the Minister understand this as a signal that he needs to step up and take some responsibility?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well I did not hear what Ms Grant said but I can tell the member that this is very clearly in relation to the Holidays Act 2003. It is in relation to the calculation of annual leave which was not changed in 2010 at all. It was not changed in 2010; it was done in 2004. The previous Government was warned at the time that annual leave calculations would be very difficult and so it has turned out to be.