Logie JanJAN LOGIE (Green): Ha ha! It was sounding very good from here. I do just want to pick up on one of the points from the previous speaker David Carter when I start. I guess I'd fallen a little bit into being sucked in by the rhetoric of the National Party as the party of personal responsibility. I don't know; I'd heard this over and over again and I admit to being sucked into it a little bit. But then I heard that last speech—it's like You shouldn't give me this winter energy payment"—Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER: I'm not giving it to you.JAN LOGIE: Oh sorry Madam Deputy Speaker. That member was saying he shouldn't be given this winter energy payment but he's not going to opt out—why should he do that? It's the job of the State to make sure he doesn't get that! Where is the personal responsibility in that? I just don't see it. I think there's some kind of internal inconsistency coming from that side.I do want to address some of the other arguments that I've heard. There's been a lot said about the value and the importance of targeting and the problem of universalism—that's been a constant thread. Now I do just want to bring into this debate some of the problems with targeting just to put that out on the table—that we have different views that we're contesting here and we're being told that targeting is always better. Well actually there's quite a lot of evidence and people's experience that certain ways that targeting is done increases stigma. If you target to a group in need then you make the provision of that thing associated with people in a bad position and it creates stigma. There is very very good research around that point.The other thing around targeting is that it creates gaps. There are always going to be people who are in need who don't meet the strict criteria that you have targeted to and there they get no support. So there's breakdown of our social infrastructure and people fall between the cracks. That is what happens with targeting.One of the other problems with targeting is that actually people need to know about whatever it is; the service that you're providing. We've heard some debate about the independent earner tax credit as an example and how only 30 percent of the people who were entitled ever picked it up because there was no advertising around it. While it's a useful thing—and put the advertising into it; it's worth bringing back—but it is a targeted thing and has flaws. If people don't know about it they don't access it when they actually still fundamentally need the assistance. So to present out there as if universalism is automatically bad and targeting is automatically good is just not consistent with reality.I also just want to challenge the view that's come from that side of the House that by supporting this Budget legislation we are anti-worker. Ha ha! It's a little bit painful when on this side of the House there's been the commitment to increase the minimum wage to $20 an hour by 2021. Actually that's where we want to see people's increase in keeping money in their pockets—by their wages and the income support and ensuring that that system is there not taking it out in terms of the money that we need to provide good social services. We know that when we take money out of the tax system we have less for providing for our hospitals and our schools. So while you may say—Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER: I don't say it.JAN LOGIE: I'm sorry—I'm sorry Madam Deputy Speaker. I've heard from that side of the House that things will be better off and that the Government should take only as much tax as it needs to do the job. We've been told—it's been suggested—that for the previous Government that was their approach: just enough. Well the "just enough" that we are hearing from parents is that they can't cope with the pressure on them for donations to be able to get their kids to be able to participate in school. The kindergarten in my area was fund-raising for crayons because that was the approach of the previous Government on what social service funding they needed.The fact is that people were starting to go to private health insurers because the waiting list for our public health service was getting so long that they were worried they would die waiting to get a service. Now that is what the previous Government's definition of funding "just enough" was and then they were introducing tax cuts. We want people to have money in their pockets and we want to have enough money to run the country decently so that people aren't having to take that money that you've given them back out to provide those basic services and protections.I will allow what was said by one of the other members who referenced our policy which was for a tax cut for people earning under $14000—and right at that end absolutely that is our policy. But we understand that in this time frame to be able to make the difference for the people who need it the most this legislation gets the ball rolling. We get to ensure that they can be warm through winter and they're not going to end up in a hospital next winter and that those kids have got food in their bellies—those 88000 children who are going to be brought out of poverty by this legislation. They will be able to attend the school trips and they won't be too embarrassed to bring friends home to their house because there is no heating there is no food in the refrigerator and they don't have another pair of shoes. We are committed to changing that and in this time frame the first 100 days this Government is putting a stake in the ground and saying that we are prioritising those children.I've heard criticism from that side of the House about the Best Start payment which they have—rather pejoratively I thought—started calling the baby bonus as if it's kind of a bonus and that babies are a function of a factory workplace activity.Hon Jacqui Dean: Oh stop it Jan.JAN LOGIE: Well that is the underlying tone of "baby bonus" is it not—rather than "Best Start tax credit". There's a really different world view in those two phrases and they're both applying to the same thing. So we're going to refer to it as the Best Start tax credit and the point about it being universal—and this certainly wasn't Green Party policy but I get that this has come out of Sir Peter Gluckman's research about the importance of those first three years of a child's life. [Interruption]Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I'm sorry to interrupt the member but you cannot I say to the Hon Maggie Barry have a debate across the House particularly interjecting when you're on your feet and moving around the House. Please have some respect.JAN LOGIE: Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. So that is coming from a really solid research base about the difference and the importance of those first three years of life. The point of making that universal in the first year is to ensure that every child gets the benefit of it that nobody falls between the cracks and that all children are supported by us as a country so that there is a message that we actually welcome children into this country and we will support their families in that difficult time.I also want to just touch as well on some of the things in Green Party policy that aren't in here and that we do want to see which are around—Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER: No I'm sorry but the Speaker was quite clear that you can't debate what isn't in the bill. You debate the bill.JAN LOGIE: OK. I would point out one point around the baby payment—Best Start payment: it's a positive that there is that welcoming. But I would say that it is adding to the complexity of our system and that the Greens do have a concern about that. Working for Families as it operates at the moment is incredibly complex and this does build more complexity into the system. It's important in the short term but we are absolutely looking to engage in that conversation about how to reform support for families to simplify it and to remove the discrimination that exists within the in-work tax credit as it is at the moment to ensure that all of our families can easily access the support they need to be able to be healthy and well and to be able to properly participate in our society because surely that is the core role of the Government."