Nash Stuart; Tolley AnneHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue): Thank you very much Madam Deputy Speaker. That was a very good speech by Hamish Walker and I admire his passion. Labour is going to support this bill through to select committee but we do have a number of major concerns about the bill. But let me start off by saying a couple of things.First and foremost we acknowledge that if you're a child in foster care then things have gone wrong at some point in your life or with your parents and your upbringing. It is tough; of that there is no doubt and I absolutely take my hat off to those people with massive big hearts that have taken in children into foster care—often damaged children often with their own children but providing the necessary shelter the care the love and the support that these children have not had from whence they have come. So immense respect for those people who are foster parents.But this is one of those bills where it sounds good. There are good intentions here but I suspect it's one of those bills where if the Opposition had had the experience of a Steven Joyce or a Bill English or even a John Key they would have drilled a little bit further and realised there is a little bit more to this than just saying foster parents should be allowed to enrol their kids in KiwiSaver.First and foremost under 18 you don't get the compulsory employer contribution or the member's tax credit so by simply opening up an account with a zero balance you can incur—not you Madam Deputy Speaker; a KiwiSaver member—fees. Now I do accept the member's point that Simplicity and one or two other KiwiSaver accounts don't have fees but I sort of wonder of the point of opening up a KiwiSaver account and having no balance in there—and keep in mind that when a person starts working at the age of 18 they are automatically enrolled in KiwiSaver anyway. It doesn't matter where they've come from and what their background is—when a person starts working they are enrolled in KiwiSaver.I do acknowledge there are 6000 foster children and I think everyone in this House will acknowledge the fact that this Government has made it its priority to lift the well-being of children in our community and our society. I think there is no greater commitment to that than the fact that the Prime Minister herself has taken on the personal and portfolio responsibility of seeing this through of introducing legislation and making it one of her key commitments for this Government's legacy. So to say—and no one has said this—that enrolling foster kids in KiwiSaver is one of our top priorities really sort of misses the boat about what we're trying to achieve as a Government. The member talked about the Minister for Children Tracey Martin and I have seen a number of papers that the Minister has brought to Cabinet committees and I know the incredible work that is going on in this Government to better the livelihoods for the most vulnerable in our communities. And some of these are the foster children but a lot of them are those who are going without food who are going without shelter and who have a substandard level of education. The Minister of Finance will deliver one of the world's first well-being Budgets. That Budget will say: this is a Government that judges things on more than just GDP. It's not just about money; it's about how we are treating the most vulnerable in our communities. Of course some of the most vulnerable in our communities are our children. We know the statistics; they are terrible. Whilst this bill is well-meaning there are so many more important things we need to do for the most vulnerable for these children in our community. I would have thought that perhaps the member could have canvassed something that was a little bit more relevant to lifting kids and families and children out of poverty and into a world where they can engage.Don't get me wrong: I have said we are going to support this. We are going to support it. There are benefits of KiwiSaver—I absolutely acknowledge that as do 2.72 million Kiwis who are part of KiwiSaver. I suspect the vast majority of members in this House are members of KiwiSaver so we acknowledge this. We acknowledge its importance. I also acknowledge that there are 30 KiwiSaver providers. The member outlined the current process of enrolling in KiwiSaver saying that you've got to go to your social worker and it's got to be a priority and it's got to be done. There is a process to go through but there is also a process to go through to take a KiwiSaver out of a default provider and into one that is not a default provider. As far as I'm aware Simplicity or the others with zero fees are not default providers. So it is not simply as easy as going along and signing up.I would argue that in a number of cases it is actually easier when you're developing a programme for foster parents and children to put this as a priority so it's listed there by the Family Court judge so the social worker knows that this is one of the steps that is important for the child for the foster family. That is possibly an easier route than in fact requiring a foster parent who has a number of challenges—in looking after children there is a number of challenges—to then themselves go and enrol in KiwiSaver. As mentioned when it's compulsory that's easy. When you start work that is easy because you are automatically enrolled and to get out of it you've actually got to make an application and the rules are changing around that anyway.So I will be interested to see what sort of submissions we get at the select committee around this and it's the reason why we are going to support this to select committee because I think this is a case where I don't have a great feel for whether this is a really big priority for foster parents. In my electorate I've met a number of foster parents. There are loose associations or groupings of foster parents and they come together and they share their stories. I suspect that the vast majority of electorate MPs have similar experiences to me. But I can tell you in my—how many years has it been?—seven or eight years of being a member of Parliament—Hon Iain Lees-Galloway: Nine now.Hon STUART NASH: —nine years goodness me. No foster—Hon Iain Lees-Galloway: Oh no you had a break.Hon STUART NASH: I had a break. I had a cup of tea. I can tell you that in those nine years no foster parent has ever ever said to me You know one of the things that I need to be able to do as a foster parent is sign my child up to KiwiSaver." There was a time when foster parents did not get the same benefits as others who were caring for kids. There are a number of foster parents who struggle to meet the commitments of schooling of sport and of other financial obligations that they face in being a foster parent. But never has anyone said "I just struggle with the fact I cannot enrol the children that I am fostering into KiwiSaver." That is the reason why I sort of wonder if this is the priority that the member bases this on. So as mentioned we are going to support this bill to select committee and I will be interested to see if we get a number of foster parents or representative foster parents coming along and saying "Thank goodness. About time; because this has been a really burning issue for me." What we might hear what we may well hear is foster parents coming along and saying "OK well—"Hamish Walker: That's where it came from Stuart. Do you not care?Hon STUART NASH: Mr Walker to say that I don't care is missing the point completely—is missing the point completely. What I am saying—what I am saying—is that in my nine years as a member of Parliament no foster parent has ever—ever—brought up the fact that they struggle to enrol their children in KiwiSaver. In fact there is a pathway to do that and as I've mentioned I suspect that it might be easier to put it on the plan.But anyway I might be wrong. I could be wrong. What we may get in front of the select committee is a whole lot of foster parents coming along and saying "This is a priority. Thank goodness this is going to be put in place." and in that case we'll put it through.Simeon Brown: So be open-minded.Hon STUART NASH: I am open-minded and that is why we are going to vote this through to the select committee. Do I need to make myself any clearer? Can I make myself any clearer? I suspect that in fact if the member went back to his electorate and concentrated on the issues that were important to the people of wherever he's from if he spends his time looking after the most vulnerable then he would do a little bit better and make a little bit of a better contribution.Anyway just to reiterate let's see what comes back from the select committee. We are going to support the bill to select committee but let me just say one thing: there has not been a Government in the history of—well since the first Labour Government—that is doing more to lift children out of poverty than this Government now.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just before I call the next speaker can I just remind the House that every member is entitled on members' day to have a member's bill debated."