Brown Peter: Urgent Debates — Emissions Trading Scheme—Government Announcement 
Brown Peter: Urgent Debates — Emissions Trading Scheme—Government Announcement 
[Volume:642;Page:12097] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 Let me assure the House at the start of my contribution that New Zealand First understands climate change. We recognise that there is a problem and we are prepared to cooperate with the Government and the Minister to a very reasonable degree. We will do our bit to encourage businesses and households to make more efficient use of energy—we will encourage that wherever we go wherever we speak. We will encourage people to use their car less or to change their car to a smaller model; to switch off their appliances when they are not in use; to turn off the lights which I suggest is a particular failing of many teenagers; to use more public transport; and to insulate their homes and to take advantage of the Government’s offers in that regard. We are particularly encouraged by the announcement that the Government wants to do more to encourage the use of the electric car. I think I saw a statement that in so many years’ time owners of electric cars will be able to charge up at the kerbside or something along those lines—that intrigues us. 
There is little doubt that New Zealand First will support the legislation that will put the emissions trading scheme into being. We will look at it positively. But having said all that I point out that we have three major concerns. One is the price of carbon. The Minister indicated that it would raise the cost of petrol by 4c a litre. My understanding is that if the price of carbon comes into being at the same level as it is in Europe the cost of petrol will go up close to double that if not slightly more than that. [ 
Interruption 
] Does Dr Cullen dispute that? [ 
Interruption 
] I cannot quite hear Dr Cullen but I understand that the current cost of carbon in Europe is about $30 a tonne. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: No if we were buying at the moment we would need to pay just under 16 bucks a tonne. 
PETER BROWN 
: I will take the Minister’s word. He is more au fait with it than I am. Nevertheless it will mean an increase in the price of petrol and that is bad enough for the average household. More particularly though is what the price of electricity will be after this all comes into being. The Government has announced that there will be compensation measures to assist the low paid or those on a moderate income. We will be reminding the Government of that obligation extensively because right now for retired folk the cost of power the cost of electricity is a very worrying issue and this will put up that cost but by how much I do not know. I am aware that a stockbroking firm I think ABN AMRO Craigs suggested that the price of electricity could go up by 20 percent. Where it got the information from to produce that figure I do not know but it has documented that. 
The other issue is that we have to convince the public. I have in front of me a survey taken today—it would not have been a very scientific survey—in which in answer to the question: “The government is unveiling details of its climate change policy today. Are you doing anything to help limit global warming?” 40 percent say “No—I’m not convinced.” and 8 percent say “No—it’s too difficult.” That is 50 percent of that survey effectively not even cooperating and not even considering cooperating for one reason or another. So on the strength of that survey there is a huge selling problem for the Government. Many people tend to think that doing their bit by using their car less changing their light bulbs and using public transport walking or cycling is all they have to do but in fact they will have to pay for it as well. 
The underlying concern I have is that doing all this by taking this issue by its horns so to speak and addressing it in reality is making New Zealand little more than a good global country and making New Zealanders little more than good global citizens. The issue of addressing climate change revolves around the big nations—the Americans the Indians and the Chinese. While China is putting on stream two or three coal-fired power stations a month and we are protesting about our one Huntly then in a global sense we are not achieving the desired results of addressing climate change. 
That is not to say that New Zealanders should not be doing anything; I hope I have given the impression that New Zealand First believes we should be doing something. But we are concerned that some of the measures that are being proposed to be introduced could adversely impact on low-paid New Zealanders and moderately paid New Zealanders far in excess of the damage they are doing. 
We note that the Minister I think in a response to a question today said the main offenders—I forget his exact words—behind the increase in carbon emissions are mainly from the agriculture sector and the dairy sector. The problems there as I understand it will be addressed financially by the taxpayer for quite some time before farmers have to put their hands in their pockets. I am not terribly impressed by the attitude of farmers in recent times. I saw one of their spokesmen on television advocating for the 23 percent increase in the price of butter. He simply said that it had to go up because that is the world market price. I think it was the same person on television a few months ago asking for the Government to bail out farmers when their pastureland was flooded. 
New Zealand First is supportive of the measures being adopted by the Government—I want to emphasise that—but we do have concerns about the impact they will have particularly on low-paid and moderately paid people. In the House today the Minister could not to my mind answer a question satisfactorily on what compensation measures will be put in place for these folk. I am not sure how that situation will be addressed. One suspects that it will be through the community services card or something like that. [ 
Interruption 
] The member over there is muttering; I think he should take a pill. I think that New Zealanders need answers to those sorts of questions about how we will address the low paid and how we will address the problems of the household that is scratching along on a modest income. Then we have the other side of the argument which is that if we are to bail those people out so to speak then what effect will that have on their attitude to using electricity and energy? It is a question with an answer that is a double-edged sword. 
In summary New Zealand First is concerned about the climate change problems this world is experiencing. We believe that New Zealand should do its part but we are concerned that some of the measures might well lead to punishing New Zealanders and New Zealand business in excess of what is fair. So we will be watching with interest. We will cooperate with the Government and we are prepared to play a positive role. We are prepared to sit down and discuss the options but I would emphasise that we do have some concerns about how the cost of all this will impact on the average New Zealander.