6. Question No. 6—ForestryTODD MULLER (National—Bay of Plenty) to the Minister of ForestryQuestion No. 6—Forestry6. TODD MULLER (National—Bay of Plenty) to the Minister of Forestry: Does he share the concerns of his officials outlined in paragraph 17 of the 1 April 2019 paper titled One Billion Trees Fund and the risk of 'whole farm' conversion" and how does he intend to manage these issues going forward? Hon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry): I thank the member for his question. Of course the paragraph he's quoting from has been characteristically distorted and I do agree that whole-farm conversions are not the objective of the billion trees fund. Todd Muller: The Government has a strategy of Right tree right place right purpose; so as forestry Minister assessing the land-use change to forestry occurring around the country at the moment is he seeing any examples of wrong tree wrong place wrong purpose? Hon SHANE JONES: I would remind the member that land-use decisions are the province of local government and one of the great virtues of owning land in New Zealand is having the flexibility to change the purpose for which that land might be used. The point also I would add is that yes there is some concern about the amount of capital being dedicated towards forestry but those concerns are vastly exaggerated and worsened by misinformation from the Opposition members in the House. Todd Muller: In the same 1 April paper it was noted by officials that the high carbon price is a key driver for whole-farm conversions; if that's the case now at $25 a tonne does the Minister have any concern over land-use change to forestry when the price substantially lifts? Hon SHANE JONES: Well obviously the current position is that $25 is our cap but thank you very much for voting for Mr Shaw's bill. Todd Muller: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked a very straight clear question and I believe that— SPEAKER: Yeah I will get the member to repeat the question. Todd Muller: Thank you. In the same 1 April paper it was noted by officials that the high carbon price is a key driver of whole-farm conversions; if that's the case now at $25 a tonne does the Minister have any concern over land-use change to forestry when the price substantially lifts? Hon SHANE JONES: I shall elaborate. The apparatus governing the price of carbon relates to legislation currently in the House that you've reflected great enthusiasm for voting for. Secondly there is no ambition at the moment to change the cap. The cap reflects settled Government policy just as there is no settled policy to import dodgy Ukrainian credits which blighted the emissions trading scheme (ETS) under the regime of the John Key - Mr English Government. And once again sir thank you very much for voting for Mr Shaw's bill. Todd Muller: Supplementary to the Minister— Hon Gerry Brownlee: What a plonker. SPEAKER: Order! Order! Who said that? Hon Gerry Brownlee: I did. SPEAKER: The member will stand withdraw and apologise. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I withdraw and apologise. SPEAKER: And he's lucky. Todd Muller: Is he aware that the legislation that we're about to debate—the zero carbon bill—precisely assumes that the cap comes off? Hon SHANE JONES: What the legislation allows for is for a future Government to address how many units and what level of carbon price should persist. But the bill that the member is voting for—a Government bill—will bring hopefully unanimity and we'll see an end to the other side of the House trying to denigrate and destroy the ETS. Todd Muller: Extraordinary— SPEAKER: There was an answer in there right in the middle. Todd Muller: Sorry? SPEAKER: Yeah sorry I thought the member was going to take a point of order. Todd Muller: Oh well I was on that encouragement! SPEAKER: No no I'm discouraging the member. I think very deep in it was an attempt to address the question. Todd Muller: Is the Minister concerned with the increasing over-reliance on forestry offsetting in the Government's current climate change policies? Hon SHANE JONES: Obviously there are some challenges as we go through a reset of how land is being used in New Zealand and I'd be the first to admit that there have been anxieties in Wairoa. But I say to the people of Wairoa: only a mere 8300 hectares as a consequence of the primrose path in the overseas investment regime have been converted to forestry. I am advised that that's less than one thousandth of the sheep and beef land in New Zealand. I look forward in the event that there is a smattering of protesters arriving on 14 November to bringing them into the world of factual information not misinformation from the other side of the House. Todd Muller: Will the Minister support our Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) to the zero carbon bill that asks specifically of the Climate Change Commission to reflect on the ongoing use of forestry offsets and advise future Parliaments if changes are needed? Hon SHANE JONES: In looking at any SOPs I will place great accent on the fulsome support given by the Farming Leaders Group of New Zealand for the Prime Minister and not on indulging these whimsical attempts by the Opposition to undermine farming leadership yet again."