Norman Russel William: Immigration Bill — Second Reading 
Norman Russel William: Immigration Bill — Second Reading 
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Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
: 
 I stand to speak on the Immigration Bill on behalf of my colleague Keith Locke who sat on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee and unfortunately cannot be here tonight. I do not get up to speak as an expert on immigration law because I am not one but I am someone who has a deep and abiding belief in and commitment to natural justice. 
There are some parts of this bill that to a person who has just a basic understanding of natural justice and how it should work really are quite extraordinary. It seems to me quite remarkable that anyone in this House who says he or she has any commitment to human rights or freedom—on one side we have the pious cries of human rights and on the other side we have the pious cries of freedom—could actually vote for this bill. 
Let us talk about some of the elements of this bill. You can get convicted on the basis of secret information. You can have a case— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: The member cannot bring the Chair into it. The member cannot use the word “you”. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN 
: Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. A person can be convicted on the basis of secret information. Fourteen different Government agencies can have secret information that they keep from the person. The person is not allowed to know what it is. They have this secret information and they can use it against the person who has no idea about it. Fourteen different agencies can do that. It strikes me as quite extraordinary the breadth of power that we are giving to the Government—a conservative Government. It is supposed to be suspicious of State power but it seems to ladle it out in great quantities whenever anyone wants to go hard on refugees some of the most vulnerable people in the whole world. 
The list includes the SIS the Government Communications Security Bureau the New Zealand Police the Department of Corrections the Department of Internal Affairs the Department of Labour the Ministry of Fisheries the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry the Civil Aviation Authority the Aviation Security Service the Customs Service the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade Maritime New Zealand and the New Zealand Defence Force. These are all State agencies that can have secret information on people. 
They do not tell the person. The person turns up in court and says: “I’d like to defend myself.” They say: “We’ve got this case against you but we’re not going to tell you what it is because it’s secret. But we can appoint a special advocate for you.” So a special advocate is allowed to look at the secret information they have against the person. The special advocate is allowed to go and look at the secret information but once the advocate looks at the secret information he or she is not allowed to talk to the person who is being convicted on the basis of secret information held by all these Government agencies to which the conservatives amongst us want to give lots of power to override basic human rights. Suddenly we are going to give all this power to these State agencies. Goodness knows why. The special advocate can look at the secret information that any of the 14 different agencies has on the person and that is being used to convict the person. The special advocate can communicate to the person in writing only via the tribunal. The advocate can communicate to you in writing only via the tribunal. That is extraordinary. You never get to see the information that you are being convicted on. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I have reminded the member that he cannot bring the Speaker into the debate. He must use the third person. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN 
: Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. So people being convicted by this secret information are not allowed to see it but they can have a special advocate who sees it on their behalf and then communicates to them in writing. So how are the people against whom the secret information is being used supposed to pull apart this supposedly special information this secret information held against them? How do they challenge this information when the only way that people being convicted on the basis of this information find out about it is when the special advocate who gets to read it writes little notes and sends them to them. How on earth are they supposed to find out and illustrate that in fact that information is false? We know that in the Zaoui case the information that was being given against Zaoui was false and it was on that basis that Zaoui managed to become a genuine refugee. 
This law could be seen as the revenge of the Immigration Service because it lost the Zaoui case. That is actually what it is. The bill is the revenge of the Immigration Service and the SIS because they lost the Zaoui case. They were exposed for providing false and misleading information. So they have decided they are going to stop that because the person being convicted on the basis of this false information will not get to see it any more. So it is revenge because those services lost the Zaoui case. 
Just in case the High Court might consider that it could look at the secret information and determine whether it was true there is another special clause in the legislation. There is another special clause that the Labour and National parties are very happy to have in there which states that the High Court is not allowed to challenge whether or not the information is accurate. The High Court has to assume that the information is accurate. This is the information provided by the SIS and 13 other Government agencies which in the Zaoui case was proven to be completely wrong. But no the High Court is not allowed to look at it and say that it is wrong. No if the SIS says that black is white then the High Court must accept that. That is what this law says—this law that members are so happy to vote for; that those members who say they believe in freedom and who say they believe in human rights are happy to vote for. Something that can be manifestly false must be accepted as true by the High Court because this Parliament is passing a law that says that it has to be considered to be true even when it is not. Under the Zaoui case it was proved to be false. So where is Labour’s commitment to human rights? Where is National’s commitment to freedom? They are willing to vote for a law that says black is white because the SIS the Ministry of Fisheries or 12 other Government agencies say that black is white. If they say it is so the High Court must accept that it is so. 
This House is very happy to pass a law that says to a High Court judge that he or she is forced to accept a piece of information as accurate that the judge knows is false. That is the law we are passing tonight. That is the law this Parliament is so happy to pass. It is a law that says we will convict people on the basis of secret information that they will never see and that they will never be able to challenge no matter how false it is and even when it gets to the High Court the High Court judge will not be able to say that black is black and white is white because if the Government says that black is white it must be so. Do members know what that is called? That is  
Nineteen Eighty-Four 
 when the Government says that black is white and forces the High Court judge to accept that because the court is not allowed to challenge it under the law that is being passed tonight. Under this law when the Government says that black is white the High Court judge has no choice but to accept the Government’s word on the matter even though the High Court judge knows that black is black and white is white. That is the law that you are passing tonight; I hope you feel proud about it. Is this the way we are going to treat the most vulnerable people in the world? Refugees are people who have nowhere else to go and who are in danger of being tortured when they are sent back because they cannot challenge their cases in the High Court because the Government has said you have to accept something that is false— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I remind the member for the third time that he cannot bring the Speaker into the debate. He must use the third person. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN 
: Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker; my apologies. Even when a person is aware that a piece of information is completely false—even when a piece of information is completely false—the High Court will have to accept it. The court will have to accept that it is true. Our so-called Attorney-General is smiling and thinks that this is OK. It is not OK; it is not OK to force the High Court to accept something that is false to say that it must accept that it is true. That is not OK. And the outcome of this manifestly unjust process is that some of the most vulnerable people on the entire planet—refugees—will be sent back to where they came from to be tortured or killed because we cannot possibly allow them to stay in our country. That is totally unacceptable. 
Of course there are some other really choice bits of this law. There is the whole search and seizure without any warrant provision. That is another great commitment to freedom from National and to human rights from Labour. They are passing a law that says a police officer can go into someone’s house without a warrant—without a warrant from a judge—and can just wander in there and grab people. It is just like the dawn raids the good old dawn raids. It is back to the dawn raids. Is that really the kind of law that we as a Parliament should be passing? Should we be passing a law that fundamentally breaches everything that we supposedly stand for as a democracy? I refer to the kinds of things that people represented by all the names on these walls around us here fought for. 
There is also the matter of habeas corpus because this law allows for indefinite detention. This law allows for indefinite detention. Do members of the Labour Party want to vote for that? Great! They can vote for indefinite detention and members of the National Party the party of freedom can vote for indefinite detention. It is my view that this law is completely unjust.