Fairbrother Russell: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fairbrother Russell: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:641;Page:11482] 
6.  
RUSSELL FAIRBROTHER (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Defence 
: What reports has he received on changes in defence policy? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: What did Mike Moore say? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Defence) 
: 
 Take your pills Nick—come on! I have seen a report indicating that the policy of scrapping the air combat wing in New Zealand which National has spent 8 years vehemently condemning as “dangerous and irresponsible” and “freeloading off its friends” has now been embraced and adopted by the National Party. I of course welcome this latest flip-flop by the National Party but I understand that the issue remains bitterly divisive within the National Party and we cannot be sure that it will not again flip-flop in the opposite direction. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: Has he seen any further reports explaining proposed changes in defence policy? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have seen the transcript of Television One’s  
Agenda 
 programme where Murray McCully admits that the Labour Government was correct in its decision that New Zealand’s defence expenditure needed to focus on capabilities that it could execute really well and I welcome National’s support for Labour’s policy. However I am aware that the National Party is still run essentially by the same core of people—Bill English Lockwood Smith Tony Ryall Maurice Williamson and Murray McCully—all of whom vehemently criticised that policy just a few months ago. So one wonders about either the shallowness of its current policy or the shallowness of its previous policy. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: When does the Government intend actually ever to get an unconditional sale of the Skyhawks given that it is over 2 years since the Minister made his dramatic announcement of their sale and he said he would follow it up when he went on his trip to the United States—or do they keep reminding him to not keep making the cheap shots against Australia and the United States that he has become expert at? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The member of course is inaccurate in his statement because I was not the Minister of Defence 2 years ago—so he cannot possibly have that right. But the short answer to the question is the answer that the member already has—[ 
Interruption 
] Perhaps that is why he is still interjecting—because he has asked a question and he knows the answer. The answer is that the decision about the sale of the A4s to the Tactical Air Services company is in the hands of the Department of Defense and the Department of State in the United States. The United States has made it abundantly clear—and the member is aware of this as well—that there is no fault on New Zealand’s side and that the problem exists within its system. 
Ron Mark 
: Has the Minister seen reports of a political party that when last in Government signed up to purchase 28 F16s at a cost of around $650 million that campaigned vigorously against the Labour Government’s decision to disband the air strike capability that promised hundreds of Royal New Zealand Air Force staff at a public meeting in Bulls that it would reinstate that capability when elected to Government and that has now stated it would not reinstate the air strike combat wing; if the Minister has seen those reports what aspect of National’s flip-flop defence policy does this Government see value in or has he concluded as New Zealand First has that National cannot be trusted with the defence of New Zealand? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have seen those reports and I have seen those exuberant promises made by the National Party. It has broken its word. The member is right—National members cannot be trusted. They could never be trusted. They have done it in the past and they would do it in the future if ever the country had to put up with their being in Government again. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: What reports has he read that seek to explain the change in defence policy? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I have read an article in the  
Sunday Star-Times 
 of 2 September that refers to past National criticisms of Government policy on the air combat wing as being New Zealand “freeloading” and “dropping leaflets on rogue fishing boats”; the journalist who wrote that report reached the conclusion: “So National is now either prepared to countenance bludging on its mates and leaving the [exclusive economic zone] unprotected or it has decided that its former rhetoric was hysterical nonsense.” Either way the National Party has egg on its face. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Does the Minister consider the sale of the Skyhawks and the Aermacchis to be a trade issue; if so would he consider appointing a former World Trade Organization leader to negotiate the sale of those particular aircraft on behalf of his colleague the Minister of Trade? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: It is of course a defence issue but I read in the paper just today that the man who climbed Mount Everest first the man who invented rugby and the man who did a few other things would obviously be a very good man to help sell those planes!