Jackson WillieHon WILLIE JACKSON (Minister of Employment): Kia ora Mr Speaker nō reira tuatahi e tika ana ki te mihi ki ngā mate ngā mate huhua o te wā moe mai koutou anō i mate ai i a Whakaari moe mai moe mai koutou. Koutou e huihui mai nei i haere mai nei mō te kaupapa i tēnei rā tēnā anō koutou katoa. [Greetings Mr Speaker and so firstly it is appropriate to acknowledge the dead the many dead of this time rest in peace you who died at Whakaari / White Island rest in peace rest in peace. You who are gathered here and who came for today's agenda greetings also to you all.]Listening to the previous speaker I'm somewhat confused by that kōrero. Of course many in the public are also very confused with what Melissa Lee is talking about because as she quite rightly said she fronted Asia Downunder and produced Asia Downunder. I thought she was a terrific presenter and it was a terrific show and she probably should have stayed in that line of work because the programme was a big benefactor in terms of taxpayer dollars and rightfully so; I have no problems with that. But I think with this type of bill that type of show is threatened—absolutely threatened—because for some reason Melissa Lee needs to hear every single thing that's happening. Through Asia Downunder we had perspectives that we never would have got if we were watching mainstream. It was such a great show. It was needed and it was perfect in terms of what was happening in terms of New Zealand society. It was the type of show that deserved to be funded. Under this bill I don't believe that that type of show would be funded again. As I said so many of the public or people who critique media are confused by this bill. I just read the chair of the public campaign group Better Public Media Dr Peter Thompson who said it was ironic that Melissa Lee received millions of taxpayers' dollars to make Asia Downunder but now wants to change the law in what he described as an attack on low-rating public media content. These are our people who are critiquing us and overseeing us all the time. Russell Brown on his Public Address blog noted that New Zealand On Air is committed by law to funding programmes for various niche audiences which can't sensibly be measured simply by commercial ratings and some are funded precisely because they would not be made in a wholly commercial system. Melissa Lee knows this—Melissa Lee knows this—so I'm wondering what is driving this bid to suddenly have our groups New Zealand On Air and Te Māngai Pāho reporting every five minutes. There's no need for it and in fact I've heard Mike Hosking use the same type of rhetoric. And the Hosking rhetoric is that if it doesn't rate get rid of it. Sadly I'm hearing that same type of kōrero from Melissa Lee in a roundabout way. I acknowledge what she has said in terms of a lot of our programmes being put into prime time. In fact her programme should have been put into prime time; in fact my programme should have been put into prime time. I'll take that opportunity to promote my programme which went for six years. It went for six years Eye to Eye with Willie Jackson and it was promoted by New Zealand On Air and again Melissa Lee makes the point it was put on at times where the audience should have been a lot bigger but these types of programmes are always put in ghettoised hours. We have a bit of a change now with Q+A now being put on a Monday evening but her point about those programmes and audiences is valid.But then she has confused the situation by saying I need to know. I need to know." I cannot recall Melissa Lee—when I was looking back and reading I didn't read anywhere where Melissa Lee was publicly protesting about this issue when she was fronting and producing Asia Downunder. I can't recall that; I just recall programme after programme after programme coming out in terms of Asia Downunder putting rightfully an Asian perspective on things.The brief of New Zealand On Air and Te Māngai Pāho is very clear. New Zealand On Air is designated to reflect the New Zealand identity to give a New Zealand perspective to support people who have ideas and dreams and who want to give a perspective that they would not get in terms of mainstream. We must support that agenda and that kaupapa always. This bill endangers that kaupapa. We can't commit that agency to an area where ratings ratings ratings are the emphasis. The problem with what Melissa Lee is saying is that it epitomises the National Party view that the commercial side of things is the only area that counts. That's the problem with this view. In terms of Te Māngai Pāho Te Māngai Pāho's brief is Māori language and Māori culture—Māori language and Māori culture. The last thing that Māori television and Māori radio should be worrying about is ratings. If you were to take Melissa Lee's bill you would sadly sometimes and I don't mind admitting it find under the ratings formula as Melissa Lee knows—it's a strange sort of formula how they work it all out. If you were to attach that to some Māori programmes some Māori radio shows—not my radio show that was going for a few years but a lot of radio shows Māori TV shows—at the end of the day the audience is actually zero. It is actually zero. That's how things work out. It probably was the same with Asia Downunder. So again under Melissa Lee's bill you would probably have to close the show down and close the agency down. That's how dangerous this bill is. So I know that Melissa Lee is talking about different things within her kōrero today but I think it masks the fact that the driver behind this bill is this: are these agencies really doing the business in terms of ratings? Are they commercially viable? Those are the dangers that we're looking at today—those are the dangers that we are looking at today. So if you haven't guessed Melissa Labour's not supporting this bill. I think you might have guessed that.I'm looking forward to Clare Curran's contribution. She has made a huge contribution in terms of broadcasting in this country. We're not supporting it because it doesn't support New Zealanders. It doesn't support New Zealanders; it supports the Mike Hosking - type view of life and the National Party view that only ratings count. In terms of where we're going in society the commercial side of things is tremendously important.So I just want us to take stock here for a moment because within Māori media I know a lot of Māori radio providers are very nervous—they don't have Māori television because they don't want to be judged in terms of the ratings exercise. It's another way for them to be judged. So I'm saying we have to take stock and realise that this Government has already put a $15 million investment into Radio New Zealand and New Zealand On Air to start producing more content including a fund to promote cooperation between the two and we've announced $4 million worth of projects in terms of children's news Pasifika and Asian storytelling. That's where the dollars and the investment must go. We don't need any more accountability areas in terms of New Zealand On Air and Te Māngai Pāho. The reportage is enough; the accountability is enough. When you get a programme you have to give a producer's report you have to give a stocktake you have to give a financial report—everything is already in place—and if you want to get the ratings you can get the ratings.So sadly today we can't support this bill because well it's just not a very good bill—it would act against the interests in terms of all New Zealanders. So I have to put that forward today but all the best still to Melissa Lee. Kia ora āno tātou katoa."