Brown Peter: Urgent Debates — Toll Holdings—Rail and Ferry Purchase 
Brown Peter: Urgent Debates — Toll Holdings—Rail and Ferry Purchase 
[Volume:647;Page:15856] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I will try to take some of the emotion out of the debate but I have to say that I agree in very very large measure with what Dr Cullen said. As transport spokesperson for New Zealand First I have had a number of members of the public contact me about the buy-back of the rail system and not one of them has been critical. Not one single person has said that the Government is doing the wrong thing. I cannot comment on the price; I have not seen the details of the negotiations. But $665 million strikes me as being a lot of money particularly when it was bought by Toll for I think $394 million a few years back. So New Zealand First waits with interest to see the details of the agreement when they emerge. But the simple question that should be asked is whether we need an efficient railway system in this country. 
David Bennett 
: Exactly. 
PETER BROWN 
: We do. Even David Bennett is acknowledging that we do. The second question that the member may be able to answer is whether Toll would deliver an efficient railway system as efficiently as this country needs. I have to say that it would not. Even over a long period of time it would not have delivered the service that this country needs when it comes to railway matters. 
David Bennett 
: How would you know that? 
PETER BROWN 
: We have only to follow the track record thus far. Toll was closing down segments. Toll a monopoly provider has to service principally the interests of its shareholders. The Government on the other hand has the ability to service the interests of New Zealand New Zealand business and New Zealanders. Why the difference? Why would we expect an overseas organisation—an Australian organisation—to service the long-term interests of New Zealanders if these are in conflict with the requirements of its shareholders? 
Many many organisations have come out in favour of the railways being brought under Government ownership again. When we look back to when it was sold in the early 1990s we see that we were promised—I think there was a TV programme promising this—that the New Zealand railway system would turn into something super duper. But what happened in fact was that it was asset-stripped large chunks of it were sold off and the owners and those associated with the owners became very very wealthy. The railway owners at that time became the biggest truck owners and truck operators in this country. That must tell us that they were not putting the interests of the railway service first and foremost. They became the biggest truck operators in the country and that is still the case with Toll. Tranz Link is the biggest trucking operation in the country and as we have just been told it has just purchased United Carriers in Whangarei. 
The Government now with the ownership of the railway system can take a total strategic overview and if it is correctly managed it can develop it so that it gives a huge advantage to New Zealand economically and socially. It can introduce what the British people have looked to introduce—a freight facilities grant scheme. I am told that it works exceedingly well for the British and I will quote from a paper outlining that scheme: “Taking freight off congested roads and moving it by rail or water can have environmental and wider social benefits. However rail and water can sometimes be more expensive than road transportation. Three schemes are available that are designed to facilitate the purchase of the environmental and social benefits that result from using rail or water transport instead of road.” I will not go into the details of the scheme but the British introduced that scheme some years ago in an effort to take trucks off the road and transport freight on either the canals or the railway system and there is no reason why New Zealand cannot follow that sort of line. In short the Government can determine whether it is cheaper or more cost-effective to develop a road as against giving some incentive to freight movers or even passenger operators to put a train on the rail track. The freight mover does not have to be a monopoly provider. The Government could open it up to private enterprise on a chartered basis on a lease basis or on any basis that it is inclined to use. For example Tranz Link could end up operating a freight train between two particular points. Many many innovative options could be introduced with the correct management. 
I note that Mainfreight another major trucking company has welcomed the announcement and has pledged to up its own investment if services improve. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Mainfreight has? 
PETER BROWN 
: I believe that the Hon Maurice Williamson a former Minister is a director of that company. I ask whether that is so. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: No. 
PETER BROWN 
: The member is not a director of Mainfreight. He was a director of Mainfreight. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: No. 
PETER BROWN 
: Well that is contrary to the information I have been given. But Mainfreight is a major player when it comes to transporting freight. It has welcomed the Government’s purchasing back the rail system as has the coastal operator—the shipping organisation. Mr Grout the President of the New Zealand Shipping Federation said that control of rail freight and inter-island vessels opened the door for the Government to lock in policies for a more efficient and sustainable transport sector. [ 
Interruption 
] The member at the back of the Chamber is making a lot of noise but he would not have a clue what needs to be done when it comes to transport in this country. He has proven that time and time again. 
New Zealand First is quite delighted that the railways are coming back under the Government’s wing. However I have a concern. I know that a National speaker will follow me shortly after I have taken my seat. A National member will rise and explain National’s view in perhaps more detail than Mr Key managed. Will National sell rail back to private enterprise in due course? The statements National has made are that it will not sell it in its first term in Government. National is quite convinced its members are going to sit on the Government benches after the election. Will a National Government sell rail if it gets more than one term in office? 
Hon Parekura Horomia 
: They won’t be there. 
PETER BROWN 
: I am being a little hypothetical at the moment. If National ends up on the Government benches will it sell rail if it gets a second term in office? Will National sell Air New Zealand if it gets a second term in office? 
Bob Clarkson 
: I’m going to buy it. 
PETER BROWN 
: Bob Clarkson came here to develop his financial interests and he is living right up to that. He came here to develop the Clarkson empire and he is living right up to it. 
As I said a few moments ago New Zealand First is very supportive of the Government buying rail back. We will welcome the details when Dr Cullen releases them on 30 June. We suspect that $665 million is somewhat over the top but one would expect that sort of figure to buy rail back. Toll was in a monopoly position. It had an asset that had to be developed and it still needs to be developed. The Government saw that the only way of developing the asset was to buy it back so Toll had control of the negotiations and the Government agreed to $665 million. We look forward to reading the small print but meanwhile I have to say that New Zealand First is delighted that the railway will come back into New Zealand ownership.