Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): We're well into this debate and in the earlier parts the Minister would stand up and give a bit of an introduction to the part and talk about it—he seems to have lost enthusiasm and is wilting under the pressure. But at least he's here; he's not in Antarctica or Scott Base or anything like that having time off when the House is sitting—Hon Michael Woodhouse: Christchurch Airport.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: —and there's work to be done. Christchurch Airport; yeah that's true. But here we are on Part 8 which I suppose encapsulates the madness of this whole thing because when the misnamed fair pay agreements" the "mandatory union deals" were introduced the Prime Minister stood up was at great pains to say "Oh look there'll only be one or two of these—there'll only be one or two of these." which was a very odd way to sort of defend and describe a piece of legislation. They're bringing in this great triumph but "We recognise that it's probably not a good idea but there will only be one or two of them." That's what she said. But the reality is there's going to be lots of them if they get a chance once this goes through. Everybody's lining up. So we've got the Unite Union or I think it is or it might be E tū that's collecting signatures or votes as we speak trying to get to the minuscule threshold that earlier on we got to. Because anyway once you've got an agreement in place what happens? Well then somebody wants to change it. You want to vary it or we want to renew it or we want to replace it. So the poor little small business that's just trying to make a buck—they're dodging the ram-raids every second night there are smash and grabs every other night and then there's all the other trouble and strife that they've got. They've just got over COVID; they can't find any workers because the Government is competing for all the workers with their "make work" schemes like Jobs for Nature and so forth; and they're struggling to make ends meet and keep the business going and every week the Government passes some new regulation or legislation which makes them do other things—things that they don't want to do things that aren't a focus of their business the things that aren't actually helping them get the products to the customers which is how you make a living. And this part Part 8 goes through the long tedious convoluted process of how each of these fair pay agreements once they've been brought in—the good news however is if we do get a chance to form the Government this time next year there may well not ever be any such agreements because we have committed to repeal this legislation forthwith. Given all the convoluted nature of all these things notwithstanding the efforts of Unite or E tū or whichever it is which is gathering the numbers and the signatures to try and start this ball rolling before the legislation is even passed—it seems very unlikely to me that a fair pay agreement will be concluded before the next election and people will have to have a chance to have a say about it. But nevertheless there is the slight possibility that it might. And then there is even less a slight—well who knows what would happen? But the reality is that before long we'd be into the process of having gone through the whole process of having a fair pay agreement—the undemocratic start where only a tiny minority can get into it; then the bargaining where they're not talking about things like productivity or the issues that really matter; then the ratification process that doesn't matter. Even if the majority of the employers don't want it they don't ratify it it still happens because it goes off to the Employment Relations Authority. Once it's all gone through and applies to everybody whether they like it or not—you happen to be a 25 percent salesman. If you think of a member of Parliament we're 25 percent salesman 25 percent researcher 25 percent policy analyst 25 percent social worker I suppose—we'd be involved in all four of those fair pay agreements if they went through and then you have to decide which one's which. Am I more a social worker than a marketer or am I more a researcher than a policy person? It's hard to work out. I don't know. And all the people everybody will be scratching their heads around the country trying to work out what's what and where it all fits in. It's all part of this bizarre kind of regimented 19th century view of the world that you are this and you are that and never the twain shall meet and it's all opposed to the basic agility and flexibility that we have. Anyway getting through to the questions to the Minister as my time races off: why is it Minister that when it comes to applying to have one of these agreements in clause 190 "Test for initiating bargaining to renew or replace fair pay agreement" we still only require these tiny small 10 percent or 1000 people? It should be 50 percent. And why has he not considered having a more democratic basis to decide whether or not you're going to have one?"