Ririnui Mita: Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Ririnui Mita: Sentencing (Offender Levy) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
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Hon MITA RIRINUI (Labour) 
: 
 I appreciate the opportunity to take a call. I am sure there is not a member in the Chamber who would not love to think that this legislation not only is a good idea but also will actually work. I am not famous for my cynicism. I know that the Minister in the chair the Hon Simon Power as a former Minister for Courts and I as a former probation officer and former employee of the courts know the difficulties not only of collecting levies should this legislation go through but also of collecting fines. 
Being the cynic that I am this evening I would probably entitle this bill the “Wishful Thinking Bill” because basically I think that is what it is. I am sure the Minister in the chair is committed to the legislation and has some pretty strong theories about how it could possibly work. From having worked for the Department of Corrections and the courts in the past I know—as Mr Power and many of the members in this Chamber know and as my colleague the Hon Lianne Dalziel mentioned before—it is all very well if the offender does not go to prison but if the offender goes to prison what will be the case? How does the court apply the levy given that this particular individual will be incarcerated and unlikely at any time in the near or distant future to have the chance to pay any levy whatsoever? There is a huge list in the courts at the moment of individuals who have outstanding fines. I think that is quite a huge dilemma. The Chair himself Rick Barker knows this from having attempted to deal with that matter in the past as some of his colleagues have. 
It is interesting that although we might take advice from officials design particular policies and implement them by way of legislation in the real world where the rubber meets the road it is not as simple as that. As I said earlier and as other colleagues have mentioned it is all very well if the individual is in the position to make that contribution or to pay the levy but historically that has not always been the case. We have good examples in terms of unpaid fines. I know the member for Whanganui Chester Borrows also has a track record in the police force and as such would have had some involvement in court procedures and in sentencing procedures as well. He would know that there are problems when we attempt to extract money from offenders whether they go to prison or not. So I think that although the Labour Opposition is in favour of a genuine attempt to apply a levy from my experience—and I am sure from the experience of many members in this Chamber in their previous roles in the community—it is not quite as simple and straightforward as that. 
I want to hear from the Minister in the chair what the contingency plan is if this legislation does not work. I want to know whether we are going through this process under urgency just for the sake of it or whether there is a grand plan somewhere that basically will be able to deal with the failures of implementing a procedure such as this legislation to impose certain requirements on individuals. The Minister in the chair really needs to explain that position to the Committee. I am sure that he has heard in the Committee stage this evening that there is some considerable support for this approach but at the same time he has also heard members take calls and express concerns about whether this approach will be effective and whether it will even work. My colleague the Hon Clayton Cosgrove has gotten to his feet a few times and asked what the go is if the Minister is not able to make this work. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Appropriation! 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Well there is something: appropriation. I do not think the Minister of Finance would be too happy to hear that. But it is one option because we have to ask ourselves who the victim is in this game.