Tizard Judith: Protected Objects Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Tizard Judith: Protected Objects Amendment Bill — In Committee 
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Hon JUDITH TIZARD (Associate Minister for Arts Culture and Heritage) 
: 
 As I was saying when the Committee rose when we were debating this issue previously I am deeply grateful for the support of the Opposition. I found the contribution of the Hon Georgina te Heuheu to be a useful bipartisan approach to legislation that has been before the House in a variety of forms for a long time. Indeed this bipartisan approach was promised by the present National Party spokespeople on the arts at an Auckland forum. I am relieved that finally their undertaking appears to be taking form. 
This legislation is designed to amend and strengthen our ability under the law we have the Antiquities Act to prevent illicit trade in cultural objects of significant international importance here in New Zealand. I was concerned to hear some of the Opposition speakers particularly talking about “shrunken heads”. That indicates a strange lack of knowledge of koiwi tangata Maori which has been a major piece of diplomatic and cultural work by some really sincere and deeply moved New Zealanders who feel that the keeping of New Zealand ancestors’ remains in museums or in private collections around the world is deeply offensive. I have to say that this work is resulting in a worldwide movement where human remains are being repatriated and treated with the respect they deserve. So if any members want briefings on this issue I would be happy for the staff of Te Papa to offer these. International protection is the only way to oppose this unfortunate trade and to oppose the trade much more broadly. 
Jo Goodhew appeared to be demanding retrospective expropriation of property. Although I have some sympathy with things that are of New Zealand importance I am not in favour of that. I hope this legislation will require a new process for people who have title to property now whereby proper consideration is given on matters of New Zealand importance. 
The MP Chris Finlayson referred to new sections 10B and 10C regarding the return of unlawfully exported protected foreign objects and the payment of compensation to the owners of such objects. He asked what standard of proof would be required. I think we all agree that this is basically a civil matter rather than a criminal one so that the balance of probability standard would be in use rather than “beyond all reasonable doubt”. So I do not know whether Mr Finlayson wants to take that any further. 
I would like to commend the bill to the Committee. I think we have a range of challenges before us now. Steve Chadwick talked about Hinemihi pare. It is a difficult issue when valuable and important New Zealand artefacts have been exported legally or illegally in the past—in this case legally as far as we know— 
Hon Member 
: What? 
Hon JUDITH TIZARD 
: Hinemihi pare which was exported legally in the past is now up for sale. I am concerned that although it would be wonderful for us to have the power and the money to bring all of these important New Zealand artefacts—particularly Maori artefacts—back other members also raised the issue of the late Charles Upham’s medals. Although I think there are a range of views—Charles Upham himself said that these medals were won not by him but by the men he fought with—what we have to do in a democracy and a country that is increasingly acknowledging that there are important artefacts and important cultural icons that will matter for us and for the future is to have a robust debate about the different value that one generation may put on artefacts compared with the next. I think of the Te Maori exhibition which demonstrated to many New Zealanders that artefacts that were often disregarded—either not in museums or in museums—were of international value and importance as well as of course demonstrating the astonishing artistic tradition of Maori. We now find that those artefacts—this art—are attracting interest all around the world and that of course increases their monetary value. It is also an indication of the increase in value to New Zealanders. 
This legislation is trying to update New Zealand legislation but it is also trying to act as a kickstart for others around the world so that we will have international protection. We have seen the catastrophe of museums being raided in Iraq following the US and British incursion there. We have to recognise that the world’s culture matters to all of us. The Protected Objects Amendment Bill is an important step for New Zealand to take to recognise New Zealand’s culture and to stand up in the world and recognise the importance to every nation in the world and every group of people of their cultures. 
I thank the National Party for its support. I sincerely thank New Zealand First for its intelligent and able support of this legislation. I commend the bill to the Committee.