5. Schools Funding—Proposed Global Funding Model and Funding Systems Advisory Group RecommendationsCHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of EducationSchools Funding—Proposed Global Funding Model and Funding Systems Advisory Group Recommendations5. CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to the Minister of Education: Will she now recommend to Cabinet that the global budget proposal not proceed given the sector advisory group recommended it not proceed and the Prime Minister has said that the Government wouldn't really be progressing the issue unless they could get the other stakeholders on board—the unions and others"?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education): As I have said many times in this House we are in a process and no decisions have been made. It would also not be appropriate for me to be discussing what I would recommend before Cabinet. What I can say is that I have read the advisory group's report I am taking it seriously and I look forward to an education funding system that has at its heart the achievement of the children and young people of New Zealand.Chris Hipkins: Does she agree with the advisory group's concern that the proposal has the potential "to either reduce the number of teachers in the system or lead to more casualisation of the school teacher workforce"; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA: As I said I am in a process of considering the arguments that it is making. They will be weighed up and taken seriously and they will form my advice to Cabinet.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: No I am just going to invite the member to have that question again.Chris Hipkins: OK thank you. Does she agree with the advisory group's concern that the proposal has the potential "to either reduce the number of teachers in the system or lead to more casualisation of the school teacher workforce"; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA: It is my intention to provide my analysis of the advisory group's report first to Cabinet and to do so at the end of this process which we are still in.Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That is a fairly straight question about a consultation process the Minister has engaged in that has reported back and I am asking her to basically give a response to the advisory group's report which she has received. I do not think those are unreasonable questions and the Minister is not answering or not even coming close to answering them.Mr SPEAKER: Well I think it is very similar to a case we had earlier where I can accept that the member is not satisfied with the answer. I am not responsible for the answer. We have had two goes at the answer. The best way forward is I will allow the member an additional supplementary question.Chris Hipkins: How could schools reduce the number of teachers whom they employ under a global funding model without either increasing class sizes or reducing the number of subjects that they offer?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Just to be very clear about the process that we are in: the proposals are ideas to be tested and that is why they have not been modelled. We wanted to understand how much support there would be for them before we went to the next step. All of the questions that the member is asking are legitimate ones that would be considered in that process but we are not yet at that stage. So to be giving the member arbitrary answers to each independent question when there are a mix of variables would be misleading.Chris Hipkins: How can members of the education sector test the proposals that she has put forward if she will not actually explain what they are?Hon HEKIA PARATA: By referring the member to the Cabinet paper that has been online for the last 3 months which elaborated to the extent necessary to know whether or not testing these ideas was something that should be pursued. The member may also then ask why there are paid union meetings to make a decision if they do not yet know the full detail.Chris Hipkins: Does she agree with the advisory group chair Allan Vester who said regarding the proposal "The fear is that if the Government squeezes the budget as it sometimes does effectively that squeeze will be downward pressure on staff."; if not why not?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I can acknowledge that that was Mr Vester's fear but it is not one that I share.Chris Hipkins: How many fewer teachers would schools be able to employ if global budgets were in place today given that this Government cuts schools' operations budgets in real terms in this year's Budget by $7.8 million?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I reject the presumption that that question is based on. In the years between 2010 and 2015 Consumers Price Index inflation went up by 9.6 percent whereas operational grants went up by 15 percent.Chris Hipkins: Are the figures that she just quoted in nominal terms or real terms?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I think that they are in real terms. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! I just need substantially less interjection from both sides so I can hear the question and the answer.Chris Hipkins: Is it not the case that the only additional flexibility schools would have is the flexibility to employ fewer teachers so they can cover their running costs with reduced Government funding and that she refuses to rule out implementing that proposal because she has a long-running commitment to increase class sizes one way or the other?Hon HEKIA PARATA: No."