5. Better Public Services Targets—Reduction in ReoffendingKELVIN DAVIS (Labour—Te Tai Tokerau) to the Minister of CorrectionsBetter Public Services Targets—Reduction in Reoffending5. KELVIN DAVIS (Labour—Te Tai Tokerau) to the Minister of Corrections: Does she stand by the statement of her predecessor breaking the cycle of imprisonment and reoffending is a key focus of this Government. That's why we set the ambitious and challenging goal of reducing prisoner reoffending by 25 percent by 2017"; if so does she agree with the decision to drop the Better Public Services target of reducing re-offending by 25 percent?Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister of Corrections): I welcome the member's interest and the first question to me in the first 6 months of my being the Minister—Mr SPEAKER: Order! We will just have the answer.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: These targets were always meant to be challenging. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! That is an example of why the start of that answer was not helpful. I now cannot hear the substantive part of the answer. I require the Minister to start it again certainly without the first sentence or two.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: The Better Public Services (BPS) targets were always meant to be challenging. We have seen an improvement in people's lives as a result. Reducing reoffending remains a supporting measure. The September 2016 BPS results show a 4.4 percent reduction in reoffending meaning that there have been over 9400 fewer reoffenders and almost 38000 fewer victims of crime since 2011. The Government continues to track the rate of reoffending and to invest significantly in rehabilitation and reintegration. In 2015-16 we invested $176 million in rehabilitation and reintegration programmes with a goal of breaking the cycle of reoffending.Kelvin Davis: In light of that answer what percentage of the $176 million spent in 2015-16 on services to reintegrate and rehabilitate offenders actually worked given that Corrections achieved a target about 80 percent below where it was aiming?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I said this Government proudly set what was actually a world-leading target to reduce reoffending because of the impact on people's lives and the reality that the reduction of crime is significant for people in New Zealand. Currently 13 percent of the Corrections budget is spent on programmes that support their rehabilitation training education and drug and alcohol treatments and programmes of that type.Kelvin Davis: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did ask what percent of the $176 million that the Minister said actually worked given that it fell 80 percent below the target it was trying to achieve.Mr SPEAKER: My job is to judge whether the question has been addressed. The Minister certainly gave the percentage of the budget spent then on rehabilitation. I think to expect any Government department to have analysed what percentage of that has actually worked would be near impossible.Kelvin Davis: Does she agree with Newshub that her failure to reduce reoffending by 25 percent is "a fail in anyone's books"; if not why not?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: A 4.4 percent reduction is I think progress in the right directions. As I have said that is 38000—38000—fewer victims of crime. Actually I think that is a win for the Government.Kelvin Davis: Does she accept that her Government's new target of reducing serious crime by 10000 will put more pressure on the Corrections system given that it does not even reduce it to a level below that of June 2016 and excludes sexual and family violence?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: The refresh of the Better Public Services targets are really focused in language that New Zealanders understand and value. Absolutely up and down this country New Zealanders are saying they want to see fewer serious crimes. That is exactly what this Better Public Services target says. In all of the prisons that I have visited—and the Corrections staff that I have spoken with—they are 100 percent committed to reducing reoffending.Kelvin Davis: How does she stand by her department's claim that "Corrections has a comprehensive and well-designed conceptual framework for achieving reductions in reoffending rates." in light of the failure to get within cooee of reducing the reoffending target?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I said in my primary answer I think the results in terms of where we are at currently are significant. Is there more work to do? Absolutely and that is why we are open to suggestions on how else we can tackle some of these very very challenging offenders. The ones whom we have in currently are the ones who are the recidivist reoffenders. They are in for more serious crimes some of them are in for longer sentences and unfortunately we now have a higher gang percentage of prisoners than we did when we started this Better Public Services work.Kelvin Davis: Does this sentence on rehabilitation programmes from her department's annual report not explain in a nutshell why her Government failed to meet its target: "The rates of some programmes reported are small and below the level of statistical significance."?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: And in response to that the Auditor-General's report indicates that the work that is done by Corrections is evaluated on an ongoing basis. Of course I am very keen for Corrections to try new things. If they assess them and they do not work absolutely we will try something else."