3. Question No. 3—Public ServiceHon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister for the Public ServiceQuestion No. 3—Public Service3. Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National) to the Minister for the Public Service: What is the estimated average increase in public sector pay excluding step-based progressions built into the Estimates of Appropriations in Budget 2021?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for the Public Service): I'm advised that the Estimates of Appropriations do not build in any average increases in the public sector so the level of detail around public sector pay sought by the member is not available in those documents. As was the case under previous Governments staff pay increases beyond the budgeted year are managed within baselines except where there is a specific Budget initiative that's been approved to provide additional funding to particular organisations for that purpose.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is the appropriation in Vote Health for district health board cost pressures $1.2 billion less than last year's increase in part because of the Government's expectations for low or no pay increases in that sector? Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: No.Hon Michael Woodhouse: How much of the $90 million reduction in Vote Police is a consequence of an expectation for lower wage growth for the 12000 staff who work for New Zealand Police?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The Government doesn't reveal in the Budget appropriation documents the funding that is set aside for potential pay increases.Hon Grant Robertson: How would the Minister describe a negotiating strategy for pay that revealed the amount of money available for that pay?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: It wouldn't be very much of a strategy at all. In fact it's likely to result in the money being made available through the Budget documents for pay being insufficient to meet the demands that that would likely generate.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Is paragraph 2.2 of the Public Service pay guidance released by the Public Service Commission which says The default position is that there are to be no increases to bands for lower to middle [income] earners; pay" an example of a negotiating strategy?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: If the member reads the entirety of that guidance he'll find it's a much more subtle position than the one adopted by the previous National Government of which he was a part that basically said no one was allowed pay increases at all.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Would paragraph 4 which says "Universal across the board pay increases are not consistent with this guidance." be an example of his definition of subtle?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The member needs to read the entirety of the guidance.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Was the Government forced to act to control salary cost increases in this Budget in part because it now realises the structural cost impacts of the more than 10000 extra public servants it has recruited since 2017?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Can I thank the member for his question and the opportunity to remind the House of the people that we are talking about here which includes the thousand extra people employed by the Ministry of Social Development to among other things provide the wage subsidy that kept hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders in work; the 434 people recruited by the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment who are protecting our border from COVID-19; the 328 extra people employed by the Ministry for Primary Industries to deal with among other things Mycoplasma bovis critical to our primary industries; 609 additional people employed by Oranga Tamariki who are mostly social workers dealing with our most vulnerable.SPEAKER: Order!Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I could continue on Mr Speaker if you'd like me to.SPEAKER: Order! No the member can't continue on. He's not going to list out the entire 10000. Michael Woodhouse.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Yes?SPEAKER: Oh sorry no more supps? No. OK.Kieran McAnulty: Were there any others on that list?Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Indeed—oh!SPEAKER: That question has been answered."