Jackson Willie; Goldsmith PaulHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour): Mr Chair thank you for this opportunity. I wanted to follow up on what Ginny Andersen was saying in terms of—and the Minister of Justice wasn't in the chair. But there is a high level of worry out there in terms of former gang members and their contribution in terms of communities. I've spoken to a number of them over the last few months and one in particular—Eugene Ryder who I would hope that this Government has been consulting with—has been very very clear in terms of insignia being displayed. Some of these guys have been long-time gang members but have turned their lives around and I think that the whole House would agree that people like Eugene who's been a real example in terms of Māori communities Wellington—but he too has major worries in terms of the checks and balances which is what Ginny Andersen was talking about. You know they will have their patches though. Some of them will not have got rid of them and the opportunity to I suppose breach their rights is still very high. I've talked with him and I've talked with other gang members who are ex - gang members. I don't know if he is ex or current but Denis O'Reilly another long-time veteran gang member is worried again about the implications of this bill particularly these clauses 7 and 8 where we're talking about the display of gang insignia and particularly when they've got them stored away in their houses. It might be a little bit extreme to think that the police would breach that line but we need some assurances given the amount of ex - gang members now who are making a real effort and are turning around people's lives. What has been the level of consultation from the Minister with regard to this and it's a question that's being asked. Has he spoken to the Eugene Ryders and has he spoken to the O'Reillys who have been major commentators in this area? I'm interested to hear whether they came through. I wasn't involved obviously in the select committee process but how many of them came through to the select committee? Is he taking some of their views seriously? Martin Cooper is someone who is involved with our organisations in Auckland—a long-time Black Power member. He spoke to me a couple of weeks ago too about his concern. Has the Minister got around the former gang members and consulted them about their views with regards to this because there's a huge worry. Can I also ask the member given his great relationship with iwi whether this was raised at the iwi leaders meeting in the last week or two. This has been a kaupapa that has been on the table with the iwi leadership because gangs whether we like it or not have been—so many of them are part of us. That doesn't mean to say that we support the actions or intimidation of gangs—not at all. But we do take responsibility when a lot of them unfortunately or fortunately are related to us. Did the Minister take the opportunity to consult with the iwi leaders last week in terms of their views on how the Government is dealing with the gang patch view and did he get any support from iwi leaders with regard to this particular kaupapa? I'm just putting those questions up. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice): Thank you Mr Chair. Just in relation to that in terms of consultation of course we've just had a very lengthy select committee process where there have been more than a hundred people making submissions on the bill and I can assure the member that the Ministry of Justice through its many liaison committees with Māori iwi and hapū will have had many conversations. So that's important. In terms of the Iwi Leaders Forum to be honest most of the conversation that I had related to other legislation than this. But there were one or two people who raised the general justice matters whereupon I pointed out—as I have in relation to this bill already in this committee phase—that of course this piece of legislation is one that will give police extra powers to deal with gangs. It does not on its own represent our entire response to gangs and their intimidation in our country and violent crime or crime in general. It is one tool or four tools that will be able to help the police. Our broader approach extends into matters of dealing with addictions dealing with emergency housing accommodation and dealing with a whole range of issues which are equally important as well as the broader effort through the Te Ao Mārama courts and many other engagements across the justice sector. Hon David Parker: You've stopped funding it. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: No we didn't; we stopped the increase.