Bayly Andrew; Clark DavidANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): I was just hoping the Minister might respond to that and I hope he will but I just want to talk about one other last point. Clause 68D Jurisdiction of Māori Appellate Court": as I've said before there is no issue with certain plant varieties that need and should have the involvement of Māori so I'm asking this question respectfully. How do you deal with the issue of the perception that if you do want to go to appeal—and I heard the Minister say that there is an appeal process; that appellant process is involving the Māori Appellate Court. What clarity and certainty can you give to people who do develop plant varieties that when it goes to that Māori Appellate Court there will be a genuine different and wider perspective on that claim because the option could have been that it could have gone to the High Court? Or in fact my Supplementary Order Paper said it should have gone to a specialist group with the requisite skills and it could be a number of people; it could involve High Court judges and even from across the courts spectrum but it could also involve some very specialist technical people to help in that decision-making and appeal process. What certainty or clarity or support would you give people who do invest lots of money that if they do go down an appeals process there will be genuine grounds for appeal? Because there is a perception issue and I say that most respectfully.Hon Dr DAVID CLARK (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Well there are several questions I just want to cover off for completeness. To Mr McClay's earlier point just to reiterate this applies to material obtained in New Zealand and so let's make sure we've got that clear on the record. If it's not obtained in New Zealand it won't go to the Māori committee; it'll be examined through the regular process. Just to be clear with everybody in here we expect about six to seven applications a year to go through the Māori Plant Varieties Committee so it's a very small proportion overall; about 7 to 8 percent of the overall cases will go through that. We think that it's appropriate that those with the relevant expertise around Māori kaitiaki relationships will make that judgment. Then we accept the recommendation that's come from the Economic Development Science and Innovation Committee. I think it was a good one—that there should be a natural justice process to appeal to a High Court.The courts were consulted on this and so the Chief Justice in consultation with the Māori Appellate Court and with the High Court recommended that the Māori Appellate Court was the appropriate legal body with the relevant specialist expertise. So it's kind of a sweet spot to the member's point about making sure you do have the people with the right expertise but that an independent judiciary sits outside the regular decision-making system. So I think we've got the balance right there and I also do accept the member's asking the question quite respectfully. We've got to get the balance right there. I think we've got the balance right there. We've got an independent body who's going to assess if there are appeals and make that final judgment. So that will give plant breeders some confidence in the overall system."