Gudgeon Bill: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
Gudgeon Bill: Maori Television Service Bill — Instruction to Committee In Committee Speaker Recalled 
[Volume:607;Page:5000] 
BILL GUDGEON (NZ First) 
: 
 I— 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I am mindful of the comments made earlier and wonder whether we could have the translator provide a translation of Georgina te Heuheu’s amendment—not necessarily right now but before we vote on it. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: If Mrs te Heuheu wishes to translate it herself that is perfectly in order. 
Rodney Hide 
: No I have specifically asked for the translator to do that. I know that a member can translate what he or she has said during a speech but this amendment has Maori in it. I mean no disrespect to Georgina te Heuheu but and I think it would be good for us to get into the practice of having the translator help us to understand it. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The translation can be given by the member if she chooses or by the translator. 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: I gave a literal translation of it but the member seems to want something more than that. I have no objection to that as long as the translator keeps to the wording of the amendment. 
Hon John Tamihere 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. We are getting into dangerous territory. The Speakers’ rulings are very clear and careful on this issue. They state that in situations where a member has interpreted the issues he or she has raised in Maori that member’s word is honourable and that is where the matter stays. The alternative is for us to get into a rolling campaign of bringing in the interpreter. That is why the Speaker’s ruling was made. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The member is absolutely right. That is the end of the matter. I had not realised that the member had given an interpretation during her speech. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I will respond to what Mr Tamihere has said. I certainly am not implying any disrespect toward the member’s interpretation or questioning her word as was suggested. I am suggesting that the Speakers’ rulings that relate to accepting a member’s translation are about what a member says in his or her speech. That is fine. I accept that as a principle and I am not contesting that as I hope John Tamihere will appreciate. We have a bill before us with a preamble that has English and Maori wording side-by-side and we can vote on that. But this amendment has Maori in it and I think it would be a good practice for us to ask a translator to interpret it. I have said the interpreter would not have to translate the amendment right now but we should have it translated into English before we vote on it as we did with the preamble. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The matter has been dealt with. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. This is a slightly different point of order but I think it is worth us getting the practice right on this matter. I refer you to Standing Order 360 which relates to the translation of documents. I think that the proper course here since we are dealing with an amendment—a written document that is clearly contemplated by Standing Order 360—is for us to invite you Madam Chair as the presiding officer to invite before the debate on this clause is concluded the interpreter or someone else of your direction to provide a written translation of the amendment proposed by my colleague. I think that would meet the request that Mr Hide has made and would be good practice for the Committee to get into on future occasions. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The member has already indicated that it is a translation of the title that is already in the bill. 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The matter has been dealt with. 
Rodney Hide 
: It hasn’t actually! 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: You have dealt with the matter on the basis of what you think I did. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I ask Mr Hide to be seated. I have warned the Committee and I have particularly warned Mr Hide about speaking when a point of order is being dealt with. Mr Hide can leave the Chamber now—he has been warned. 
Rodney Hide withdrew from the Chamber. 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. In my speech I translated the words as they were very literally. Whether that would serve as an interpretation that satisfies the Standing Orders is another matter. I am very open to that being debated. I would tend to say that my colleague Murray McCully has probably stated the position as it is. So although I stood in my speech and said “Te Ture mo te Ratonga” I said each of those words separately and explained what they meant. Essentially it is the Maori Television Service Act but on the other hand that was not necessarily an interpretation. 
BILL GUDGEON 
: I respect the comments made by my colleague Georgina te Heuheu concerning the title. In my mind’s eye I can visualise a title that would be more suitable for this occasion. I would describe it as “Te Huarahi mo te Ao Maori which may be translated as “the pathway of the Maori world.” I propose that because it gets away from the word “Act” and gets away from the legality of it— 
Hon John Tamihere 
: Why are you voting against it? 
BILL GUDGEON 
: Against what? 
Hon Georgina te Heuheu 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I think the rest of us are entitled to a bit of order in this Chamber. To have a Minister from the Government side of the Chamber yelling out and engaging in a conversation with the speaker on his feet is not acceptable. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I think the member will know that there has been calling out on several occasions in this debate. 
BILL GUDGEON 
: We are talking about the title and if the bill is passed at least New Zealand First will have contributed to its title. “Te Huarahi mo te Ao Maori” may be translated as “the pathway of the Maori world” and as I was saying it gets away from the Act and the legalities that are being discussed in this Committee today. It is au fait with the Maori world and with Maori thinking out there. 
What effect would that title have on those people who are able to access this channel? It would attract some attention that would encourage people to make further inquiries in order to see for themselves whether the money is well spent. I am not saying that New Zealand First supports this bill but I am saying that when this bill is passed there should be a contribution to Maori thinking out there as far as the title is concerned. I am afraid that is how we think. That is how it is. Those words are a contribution to the title and if Maori are happy with that and are happy with the content of the programmes then they will be part and parcel of the service. That is all that I am saying.