Brash Don: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brash Don: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18230] 
2.  
Dr DON BRASH (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she stand by her statement to the House yesterday that the performance of the New Zealand economy was “being felt in homes across the country”; if so why? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes because since this Government came into office more than a quarter of a million new jobs have been created and unemployment has fallen to the lowest level in 18 years. This Government’s investments in health and education spending and the increases in the New Zealand Superannuation Fund are all up considerably. The benefits of growth are being felt in households across the country. 
Dr Don Brash 
: How then does she explain the fact that the real after-tax incomes of Kiwi families are no higher now than they were when she became Prime Minister and is it not true that all of the increase in the pre-tax income of the average family has been siphoned off so that the Government can buy more votes by increasing Government spending? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: That sounds very much like a concession that these policies are very popular. The member knows that it is not particularly useful to use household income figures. It would be more useful to look at individual figures and the fact is that the total amount of wages and salaries in the New Zealand economy was nearly 30 percent more in the year to June 2004 than it was in the year 4 years ago. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can the Prime Minister sustain the argument that people are doing well in their households in this country given that New Zealand has now fallen under her leadership to No. 37 in the international per capita incomes comparison and what does that say about this Labour Party in the last 5 years? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: What I am aware of is that New Zealand is coming around 20th in the OECD rankings. That is actually an improvement of one place but not good enough and that is why I stressed in the speech I gave yesterday the critical importance of addressing those factors that have held the New Zealand economy back. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask the Prime Minister for some OECD comparison she dragged out of her head I asked her whether it is true that we are now No. 37 in the per capita incomes comparison against other nations. Is that true or not? She just has to say “Yes” and explain why that is so. She did nothing of the sort and I would like her to answer the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Prime Minister answered the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would not like 2005 to start on that note. The reality is that the Prime Minister has been asked a very clear question and those international figures are out and every New Zealander knows it. I want her to confirm—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I want her to confirm that she understands that and explain why that is so. She did not answer the question. What she did do was to drag in some figure where she said we were No. 20 on I think standards of living under the OECD. I did not ask her for that. I am asking her about per capita incomes which is a very relevant question in any economy. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question can be asked and it is a relevant question. The answer that can be given depends on how the Prime Minister wishes to answer it and she did give an answer. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I notice that by your own assessment Helen Clark is one of the finest Prime Ministers that New Zealand has seen. Surely you will be a little more exacting then in asking and expecting her to give answers to members of Parliament when they are properly asked. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I certainly will be. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I also note by your own assessment that not only is Prime Minister Helen Clark one of the finest Prime Ministers this country has ever seen but by your own assessment she also interjected while the Rt Hon Winston Peters was making his point of order. I know that if anyone from this side of the House does that on a point of order there is no warning. How come the Prime Minister gets one? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Let me just say that I thought the Prime Minister gave a slight laugh at the end of the question. I ascertained that she was getting up to answer it. I am sure that we want her still in the House. [ 
Interruption 
] Well the member had better have a relevant point of order. That was not one. 
Rodney Hide 
: Yes it is. I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You completely misunderstood my point of order. It was not the fact that she laughed at the end of the question it was that she interjected while a point of order was being taken. You went across to quieten her so you heard it. You identified who it was. What I am saying is that if anyone on this side of the House—quite rightly—interjects while someone is making a point of order then that person gets thrown out with no warning. The Prime Minister in your assessment might be the greatest Prime Minister we have ever had but the rules should apply to everyone. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Let me just say that I did have a person who interjected earlier on in the questions and I gave that person a warning and the person apologised. I thought I was treating that person fairly. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My point of order is that you would expect the Prime Minister unlike other junior Ministers or Ministers who are not at that level to be able to answer a question with exactitude. When a question so simply has been put to the Prime Minister the fact that she may not like it and may not like the answer or the international comparison is no reason to deflect the question by raising some other issue not germane to the question asked in the first place. This is election year and surely the debating chamber can expect a direct honest answer from the Prime Minister. She could say that she does not know whether it is true. That could be a way out. However I simply asked her whether she was in any way apprised of the fact that we are now at No. 37 of per capita incomes and what did that say about her Government. 
As far as I am concerned her answer—and I am sure everybody listened to this question—did not answer the question. At least in 2005 could we please have an answer in these sorts of parliamentary question times? The Prime Minister can shake her head but if she is the best that the country has ever seen we would expect better than that. Even Jenny Shipley could answer a question now and again. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: The Prime Minister referred to the only recognised internationally generally published comparison which is the OECD list on which we rank 20th. If the member knows of another list where there are 17 rich countries that are not members of the OECD then that is probably known only to him. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: The figures I am quoting are the OECD figures. The fact that there are more outside the OECD is just one further embarrassment to the Minister of Finance. If he wants those figures I am happy to table them. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Members cannot stipulate how Ministers answer as long as the answer is relevant. I ruled it to be so. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Were the homes that she referred to yesterday the homes of the chief executive officers whose incomes have risen 25 percent over the last year or the homes of average-wage earners who have gained 2.4 percent less than the rate of inflation? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am referring to homes that have benefited from the increase in a quarter of a million jobs in the economy while this Government has been in office. The member should ask Kiwis on the street whether they think the country is going better. She would find that the answer would be a resounding “Yes”. 
Gordon Copeland 
: How does the Prime Minister expect homes across the country to save and move into the ownership society when there have been six increases in taxes levies and duties under her Government and income taxes have been allowed to rise in real terms thus leaving most of those homes with less rather than more real income? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It stands to reason that if there are a quarter of a million more jobs in the economy there will be more wealth in the community and there is. As the member also knows as a supporter of the Working for Families package 300000 families will be substantially better off starting on 1 April. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Is the Prime Minister at all concerned that the gap between the average after-tax wage in Australia and the average after-tax wage in New Zealand has grown by nearly $4000 in the time she has been Prime Minister from just over $5000 in 1999-2000 to almost $9000 in the latest financial year; if not why not? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I will accept the advice of the Minister of Finance that that figure is rubbish and say to the member that the chances of a person getting a job in New Zealand are significantly higher than in Australia where the unemployment rate is still somewhere around 5.5 percent. 
Dail Jones 
: Why does the Prime Minister take so much satisfaction in saying that the benefit of her Government can be felt in homes across the country when the concept of homeownership during the 4½ years from December 1999 to June 2004 has almost been lost to New Zealand society taking into account the average Christchurch sale figure of $176000 in December 1999 and now $252000 in June 2004 and the Auckland figure $316000 in December 1999 and in June 2004 $491000—a 60 percent increase in 4½ years during this Labour Government’s failed governorship of the housing market? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: One wonders whether the member would prefer that house prices were falling and people were losing equity in their homes. I would say that the most valuable thing this Government can do for homeowners right now is run a stable macroeconomic policy and keep a grip on interest rates—not something that another person in this House was known for when Governor of the Reserve Bank.  
Peter Brown 
: What does the Prime Minister believe is the feeling in the homes of some of the elderly folk in this country people who are on a fixed income receiving less than they are entitled to from superannuation being faced with massive hikes in power prices—I think 40 percent over the last 2 years—petrol prices going up almost weekly and some stuck on hospital waiting lists? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I know that the feeling is that this Government has guaranteed New Zealand superannuation and increased the rate I know that those homes are looking forward to the beginning of asset testing phasing out on 1 July this year I know that those households are enjoying the lower cost medical fees and pharmaceutical fees brought in under the Minister of Health and I know that there is much more confidence in being able to grow old in this country on a decent standard of living and being respected than there ever was under a grasping National Government. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does the Prime Minister accept that what matters in a Kiwi home is what people earn after tax and what they can buy with it and does she agree with the answer given by her Minister of Finance on 4 December last year to this House that all the gains that the average household has had have been eaten up by tax and price hikes so that the average household is no better off now than it was when she came into office? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The Minister of Finance said nothing remotely like that as the member knows. Average households across the country know that through the primary health organisations they are getting more affordable medical care they know there is more output from the public hospital system they know there is another 39 percent going into education spending they know their retirement is more secure and they know that a quarter of a million jobs have been spread across the community. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have two points to make in response to that answer. The first point is that I asked the Prime Minister whether she accepted that for the average household it is what they get after tax that matters and what they can buy with it. The Prime Minister never addressed that question once and my point is that she can laugh that it does not matter. That was my question and I want to know whether she appreciated that. The second point is this. The Minister of Finance gave a very clear answer. He did not like answering the question. He tried to word it in all sorts of ways but he showed very clearly that all the gains of the average household over the 5 years of this administration have been eaten up by tax and higher prices. Prices have gone up 10.1 percent and I am quite happy—I know that there is no need to—if the Minister can refer to his answer that he gave on 4 December; maybe he has forgotten it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well the Prime Minister disagreed with the member’s premise. That was a direct response to the question. Whether the member or the Prime Minister is right is a matter for debate. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: If the country is full of such total doom and gloom how does the Prime Minister explain that the approval of the economic policy of the Government is ranking 3:1 against disapproval that the Labour Party leads all other parties in every opinion poll and that the ACT party is disappearing off the face of the earth? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: All I can say is that speeches from leaders of some right-wing parties in this House about representing the battler obviously have not registered with any battler. 
Dr Don Brash 
: Should the country interpret the Prime Minister’s deafening silence yesterday in relation to tax cuts as further evidence that her Government’s priority remains spending ever-increasing amounts of taxpayer dollars while the real incomes of Kiwi families remain constant? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: What the member can take from the speech yesterday is that the Government like most New Zealanders if given a choice between tax cuts for the rich or investing in health education and people will always opt for investing in health education and people. There would be no question about that. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to table figures from the Parliamentary Library that were dismissed by the Prime Minister as rubbish in respect of the gap in net incomes of New Zealanders as compared with Australia. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is. 
Dail Jones 
: I seek leave of the House to table Quotable Value New Zealand average house sale price figures for the period from December 1999 to June 2004 which make it clear that young New Zealanders have no show of buying a house. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.