Boyack Rachel; Utikere TangiRACHEL BOYACK (Labour—Nelson): Thank you Madam Chair. Thank you may I just begin as a member of the Governance and Administration Committee that considered this bill by congratulating the member in charge my colleague Tangi Utikere on what has been a comprehensive process that the select committee has followed. As the member noted in the second reading of this bill there were a significant number of changes that the select committee made. I just want to put on record my thanks to fellow members of that committee and officials who provided a lot of diligent support to us.I've got a few questions for the member in charge that I would value having a bit more information provided particularly in relation to Supplementary Order Paper 146 that he has tabled today. That one of the challenges I guess for members in the local government area and I guess for members of the public is that we do essentially have two Acts that cover off interests and conflicts. There has been some discussion through the select committee process and through the second reading around how those Acts interrelate. So they are the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act which as other members have noted is the Act that covers local government members' conflicts when they're in the decision-making process and also the Local Authorities (Members' Interests) Act. I'd be quite interested in hearing from the member about how his Supplementary Order Paper 146 will acknowledge both his bill but also how those two Acts interact because it can cause confusion for members in councils. We've certainly seen that in some of my own councils where at times there's been misunderstandings around how those conflicts interact.I'm quite interested in finding out a bit more from the member about how he sees the provision of the summary of information and about where we've struck the balance and where that balance lies around how much information is provided for. One of the matters that came up in the select committee and that does come up from time to time in local government is that many local government elected members are often working in other roles because actually the wages—sometimes they're only earning $20000 or $30000 or $40000 a year for their local government role which means that it's actually a part-time role. They'll often hold other roles. Sometimes they'll be working for example as a consultant or as a doctor or as a lawyer and they'll have a large number of clients. Sometimes those clients will then present to local government to their council either requesting funds or a change in policy and this is where I guess there's at times a need for transparency. But there's also a need to ensure we're not ruling people out of standing for local government and putting up too many barriers to them putting their name forward. That was a matter that we heard during the select committee process.I'd be quite interested just in the member's thoughts on how we strike that balance and the work that we've done that he's done to ensure that we strike that balance in this bill. So on that note I may have some more questions for the member as we proceed but I'm hoping we may hear from other members of the select committee who are part of what was a very comprehensive process. Thank you Madam Chair.TANGI UTIKERE (Labour—Palmerston North): Thank you Madam Chair. I thank the member and the deputy chair of the Governance and Administration Committee for her questions. She is quite right in that there are two separate pieces of legislation. I acknowledge Local Authorities (Members' Interests) Act (LAMIA) as a stand-alone piece of legislation. That is largely based on financial pecuniary interests. It concerns matters where people around decision-making tables are making those decisions that align with that. The point of difference with the Local Government (Pecuniary Interests Register) Amendment Bill that's currently before the committee of the whole House in my name is that it's much broader in those non-financial aspects. So for example I point out for the member which she no doubt will be familiar with aspects around contributions to international travel and international accommodation but also where they interface with or include and capture family members which are defined. Thank you to the select committee for their definition in that particular respect.So it is about disclosure requirements but the two are quite different. That's I think why the select committee went to some pains in their select committee report to ensure that there was a Supplementary Order Paper opportunity to distinguish between the two approaches.In relation or response to her second question yes it is important that the information is publicly available but more so it's important that the information is publicly available in a balanced way a balanced way that supports the ideals of transparency and accountability but also maintains I think what is a sensible threshold of privacy. In small communities where for example someone might undertake some employment—as I think this was referenced in the second reading contributions—as an accountant or a lawyer or something I do think it is unrealistic to expect someone in that position to identify line by line ledger by ledger each of the contractual obligations and matters that they have at hand. So I think the select committee coming through that process has struck a very good balance between accountability and transparency but also making appropriate level of detail available to the public.