Hipkins Chris: Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill — In Committee 
Hipkins Chris: Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill — In Committee 
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CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 I am happy to take a brief call on the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Bill. Since I took my first call on this bill the night before last I have had the opportunity to read the bill in more detail. 
Simon Bridges 
: Good on you Chris. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: That is right; I am a details man I say to Simon Bridges. It has raised a few more questions for me which I want to put to the Minister in the chair the Associate Minister of Justice. But first of all I thought that I should perhaps recap the three main changes this bill makes. It changes the regime for private investigators and security guards by introducing licensing requirements including police checks for criminal convictions. It extends those to cover a wider range of security-related activities—in particular crowd controllers including bouncers; bodyguards; private security staff; and people guarding others in custody. I will talk a little more about the definitions of those terms. I was quite interested in understanding a little more about the definitions of exactly who will be covered by this law and I found that some people whom I perhaps did not necessarily expect to be covered might be covered. 
Private security staff will be required for the first time in New Zealand to undertake training for their job if their job includes guarding property guarding persons or keeping order amongst groups of people. Essentially training will be required if the nature of the work is such that there is a significant risk of physical violence occurring. The details of the training requirements will be made by an explicit Order in Council. There will be a dedicated enforcement body the complaints investigation and prosecution unit which will be created to ensure compliance with the new legislation and there will be heavier penalties for offending. The penalty for unlawfully employing an unlicensed security guard will go up from the present $2000 to $20000 which is a significant increase. The penalty for unlawfully operating an unlicensed business will go up from $2000 to $40000 for an individual and to $60000 for a company. 
It is useful for everybody to understand exactly who may be covered by this legislation because when I got into it and read it in more detail I found that it covered a much wider range of people than I might necessarily have thought. It covers security consultants. Under the meaning of security consultant the bill basically makes it clear— 
Simon Bridges 
: What do they do? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: I am about to tell Mr Bridges. If he would just hold himself together for a moment I will enlighten him as to the details. The private security consultants are people who sell or who attempt to sell a device of any kind—for example burglar alarms cameras and so forth. The people who come around to our houses and give us advice on what sort of security system we may want to have in our homes will now have to be licensed and subject to this regime. I think that is a very positive move. It gives people confidence that when they are purchasing a product from someone the person who will be selling it to them is properly trained and appropriately qualified to give them advice on what sort of security system they need. That person will also have to be trained qualified and licensed if he or she is to be advising the owner or occupier of the premises on the desirability of having security guards looking after their premises. I think that is something that people will be pleased to see. 
The bill introduces licensing requirements for people who are involved in the destruction of confidential documents. This is one of those things we probably never think about. We all turf our documents into our green bins at the end of the day and who picks them up— 
Simon Bridges 
: Before you know it Nicky Hager’s got them. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: That is right. Nicky Hager could get hold of them if we are not careful. I thank Mr Bridges because he has just given me another 5 minutes. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Or Roger Foley. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Or Roger Foley. It could well be that all those Don Brash emails came out of a security bin that maybe was not locked or maybe they were not properly— 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: How close to Bill English was it? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: If Don Brash had put his emails into the bin in Bill English’s office it is no wonder Nicky Hager ended up having them in his possession. The licensing regime that this bill will require for those people involved in the destruction of confidential documents will give some more reassurance. However it will not cover somebody such as Mr English who we know does a lot of his own cleaning these days because Ministerial Services would not give him those extra hours of cleaning that he wanted for his ministerial home—actually I do not know whether it is still technically a ministerial home. Members of the public and everybody who works in an office and disposes of confidential documents will be able to have more confidence that their confidential documents will be handled in an appropriate matter and that someone will not go AWOL with them and give them to Nicky Hager. 
This bill will cover property guards. It will cover people who are looking after commercial premises but it will also presumably cover people who look after private property. Like many members of Parliament I have a monitored security alarm device. If it goes off when I am not at home a security guard will be sent out to make sure nobody is breaking into my house. The people who monitor the alarm system and the people who check on the house where the alarm has gone off will have to be licensed and appropriately trained to do that work. Frankly as a consumer that is not something I had even given any thought to when the security system was installed in my house. New Zealanders can have confidence that the people who are doing this work will be appropriately trained and licensed. 
However this is an area where I have some questions. One of the requirements the bill puts in place is that anybody who monitors in real time elsewhere than on the premises owned or occupied by themselves a camera a burglar alarm or a similar device will have to be licensed. I was not on the Justice and Electoral Committee and I do not have a detailed knowledge of the bill so I would like some clarification. I have a question about the community patrols. What about the people who volunteer for the police and help out? 
Chester Borrows 
: It’s not a private place. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: It is not a private place? 
Chester Borrows 
: Well they’re not monitoring a private place. They are monitoring a public place. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Some of the cameras are in private places. Some of the cameras monitored by the police and by the community patrols are in private places so will they have to be licensed under this bill? I would like some clarification from the Minister rather than an interjection from Chester Borrows although I place a lot of— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: He’s likely to be more informed. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Chester Borrows is likely to be more informed. I will praise him. I think he is an excellent chairperson of the Justice and Electoral Committee. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: He should be a Minister. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: He should be a Minister. He would make an outstanding Minister of Police. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: If Nathan’s one why not Chester? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: That is right. If Nathan Guy can make the grade I am not sure why Chester Borrows cannot. I think he would have a very very good grasp on these issues and would make a stellar Minister of Police. It would not be hard to be better than the current Minister. If the Minister in the chair could clarify that issue for me I would very much appreciate it. 
I will recap. Labour introduced this bill. It is another quality piece of legislation that was introduced by the previous Labour Government. Labour left the National Government very well positioned to look quite good in its first few years. Such a large amount of legislation was introduced by the very diligent and hard-working Ministers in the previous Labour Government that in fact National members have not had to do much in terms of coming up with ideas of their own. They were able to pass the legislation established by the previous Labour Government. I congratulate Clayton Cosgrove my colleague from Christchurch who cannot be here today to see this bill continue its passage through the House. I am sure he would like to be here. He is with his constituents in Christchurch and I think everybody would agree that that is where he should be at this time as I know are many Canterbury members from both sides of the Chamber. 
This bill had a significant gestation period because of a review of this legislation which has been in place since 1974 and was significantly out of date. When laws get to that age it is time to take a look at them. Technology has changed dramatically in that time. I do not think anybody could have imagined digital cameras cellular phones surveillance equipment closed-circuit television and all of those things which would not have been in place or even available in 1974. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: They would not have been in place in 1974. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Surveillance cameras? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: No I meant closed-circuit surveillance cameras of the type that we have now but I will defer to Trevor Mallard’s superior knowledge. I was not born then. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Trevor was in his second term in the House. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Trevor was probably already in Parliament. He was probably already well established here. Actually he had probably had more ejections from the House than any other member at that point. 
Paul Quinn 
: He had nowhere to go. Nobody else would employ him. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: I would be careful going down that road I say to Mr Quinn. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: He’s one of the few people fired from KiwiRail. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: That is right; Mr Quinn is one of the few people ever fired from New Zealand Rail. 
I am very happy to have made this brief contribution to the bill. I am looking forward to hearing the remainder of the Committee stage debate—I think I have 3 seconds left to go. Thank you very much.