Robertson Grant: Callaghan Innovation Bill — Third Reading 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Robertson Grant: Callaghan Innovation Bill — Third Reading 
[Sitting date: 04 December 2012. Volume:686;Page:7014. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
GRANT ROBERTSON (Deputy Leader—Labour) 
: 
 Just to follow on from the end of Nikki Kaye’s speech I think everyone in this House recognises the incredible contribution that Sir Paul Callaghan made to science in New Zealand and made to innovation in New Zealand. He was a person who drew together the work of the public and private sectors perhaps in a way that few other New Zealanders have done. He was a man with a tremendous vision for what this country could be the way that it could bring together its innovation its talent and its environment and I think that that is something all New Zealanders should aspire to. 
This particular piece of legislation the Callaghan Innovation Bill the Labour Party is supporting but we do so because we have the hope that the kind of vision that Sir Paul Callaghan had could be enhanced by an institute like Callaghan Innovation. However where we stand today I have to say that I am doubtful about that given the model that has been placed in front of us by the Government. Everything about this piece of legislation everything about the process that it has gone through—with all due respect to the Education and Science Committee it was a rushed process—everything about the way that the advisory board has been set up or not set up and all of those things point to muddled confused and ad hoc thinking around research and development in New Zealand. That is what we have seen consistently from day one from this Government: muddled confused and ad hoc thinking around research and science. 
We need research and science in this country to be working well in a coordinated way and an innovative way if we are going to see our economy grow in a sustainable fashion. Everything I see in this bill points to the fact that the Government still does not get that and still has not grasped the fact that it actually needs to take more than just one-off decisions. It needs to have a greater plan for the way research and science will work in New Zealand. 
I have got two or three specific concerns about this bill that I raised in the Committee stage and that I still do not feel have been resolved. The first of those is around the question of the functions of Callaghan Innovation and the question of the allocation and administering of funding. Mr Joyce in his speech just now tried to reassure us that that would not be about contestable funding so much. Well actually it does not say that. It does not actually say that in the functions provisions. It is a very wide ambit that is now available to Callaghan Innovation to be involved in the allocation and administering of funding and I do believe that this sets up a confused picture for the role of Crown research institutes vis-à-vis Government agencies that deliver funding. I do believe that in time it could lead to confused lines of accountability and it could lead to conflict within the sector. I simply do not believe that that particular part of the functions of Callaghan Innovation should be there. 
The other thing that I do want to speak about is around the question of the stakeholder advisory group. I am staggered that this Government still has in this legislation the provision that the advisory group “may” be established. This is essential. We heard from both Steven Joyce and Nikki Kaye about the importance of getting over the silos of bringing together people from different parts of the research community and yet the body that would best do that in the form of the stakeholder advisory group does not actually have to be established. I just find it remarkable that the Government is that lax about this. It is muddled it is confused and it is ad hoc. 
More to the point there is a lot of discussion about money and dollars and we can all go back into that but one thing that we do know is that this Government told New Zealanders when it discontinued Labour’s research and development tax credit that that money would find its way back into research—$315 million worth over 3 years. Well that reality has not occurred. The Government has broken that promise. [ 
Interruption 
] It has been $100 million over 4 years Mr Woodhouse not $315 million over 3 years. There is quite a big difference between those two figures and that is a broken promise. 
But the broken promise that I want to mention in regard to research and science is about the pipeline of people who will actually be doing the research—the scientists who actually do the work. In New Zealand we can be proud of the scientists who have been produced from our tertiary institutions but in this legislation I see the Government’s wilful neglect of science scientists and the training of scientists coming home to roost. The broken promise here is around the fact that nobody went to the people of New Zealand in 2011 and said: “We will abolish allowances for postgraduate study.” There was not one political party represented in this Parliament that went to the people of New Zealand and said: “You know what? We do not think there should be allowances for postgraduate study. We think that they can fend for themselves.” No party did that yet this National Government came to this Parliament with the Budget this year and abolished allowances for postgraduate research. 
It is those researchers who will be the people who will work in Callaghan Innovation who will be the people who will provide the scientific breakthroughs and this Government is sending a message to those people: “If you haven’t got the money in your pocket if you don’t come from a privileged background forget it. Go overseas.” Day after day I get letters and emails from people who are doing just that who are saying they are giving up on New Zealand because there is no support for them to undertake postgraduate research. This kind of activity Callaghan Innovation’s core business will happen only if we have got a pipeline of scientists coming through training in our tertiary institutions doing their postgraduate study and then as my colleague Dr Megan Woods said undertaking postdoctoral research—except that we have got rid of the support for that as well. This Government has got rid of the support for postgraduate allowances and also for postdoctoral research. It is stifling and it is shutting off the pipeline of people who are needed to contribute to something like Callaghan Innovation. 
So although on this side of this House we can support this bill because at the highest level the goals are the right ones there is no point in having a Callaghan Innovation if we do not have the scientists in New Zealand who will work there if we do not support those scientists right through from school to tertiary level. Again remember that this is the Government that got rid of science advisers in schools. Not only is it taking away the opportunity at the tertiary level; it is not even investing in science at the secondary level. The Government moans and bemoans the lack of engineers and scientists but this is about a pipeline all the way from school through to work and there being job opportunities. At the moment what this bill speaks of is one small part of the equation being dealt with but the rest of it being forgotten about. It is very hard to take seriously this Government’s commitment to research and science if that is all that it manages to do. 
 This is not just an Opposition politician saying this. We have heard in the last few days the deep concern from the scientific community in New Zealand about the kinds of opportunities that this Government is providing them. Here are just some of the words used by some of our senior scientists in the last few days about New Zealand’s research and science system: “It’s falling to pieces.” “It’s an embarrassment.” “It’s a lottery.” and “It’s in crisis.” These are the words of our scientists many of whom are giving up on New Zealand. The obvious conclusion is that if those scientists feel that our system is an embarrassment that it is in crisis and that it is a lottery then they will leave New Zealand. We have seen evidence of that right around the country. New Zealand suffers economically and it suffers socially when we lose these scientists. 
I love the fact that we can stand in this Parliament and say we are going to do something about innovation in New Zealand and we are going to create a more coordinated approach. But the reality leaves that goal so far behind that it is an embarrassment. Our system is in crisis and this Government does need to step up to the mark. When Labour was in office we said that we would do the research and development tax credit because that would keep us competitive—that would keep us competitive with other countries. The National Government comes in and says it does not like that. It comes in with another ad hoc scheme that is clearly failing if the scientists of New Zealand are to be believed. 
We need a far more coherent system of funding for science and research in New Zealand. We need to invest in the people who will make New Zealand work. One of Sir Paul Callaghan’s favourite phrases was talking about New Zealand as “a place where talent wants to live”. He understood that it is the people and it is the talent that will drive New Zealand science. The institutions like Callaghan Innovation will be helpful but unless as a country we are prepared to invest in the people and the scientists we simply will not live up to those goals. 
Labour is supporting this bill but we do so knowing that we are a long way away with this National Government from having adequate support for science and research in New Zealand.