6. Prisons—Definition of Low-level OffendersHon MARK MITCHELL (National—Rodney) to the Minister of JusticePrisons—Definition of Low-level Offenders6. Hon MARK MITCHELL (National—Rodney) to the Minister of Justice: Does he stand by all his Government's justice policies and decisions?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice): As with yesterday yes.Hon Mark Mitchell: Does the Minister agree with the Prime Minister's comments that we are filling our prisons with low-level criminals?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Yes.Hon Mark Mitchell: What is a low-level criminal?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: As we know with the rapid rise in the prison population under that Government—that member's Government; a party that did absolutely nothing to address the problem—we know that the growth in the—Hon Dr Nick Smith: Answer the question!SPEAKER: Order! I am going to interrupt the member. I actually agree with the interjection but we should give the member a chance to do so all right?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Sorry Mr Speaker; do you want me to start again?SPEAKER: Well you haven't really started answering so you might as well.Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I thought the preface was important Mr Speaker. We know that our prisons more recently have been filled with those not committing violent crimes but with those committing what I would describe as street crimes" and in particular with younger offenders young male offenders those with mental health issues those with addiction issues those with literacy problems—all people who have problems that with a little bit of effort and a little bit of political will could be fixed and we could make them productive citizens again. That's what this Government will do.Hon Mark Mitchell: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a very direct question. I don't know if the House does or if you do but I still have no clear idea around what a low-level of criminal is.SPEAKER: I think I heard quite a long list of groups which fell into that category.Hon Mark Mitchell: So taking just part of the criteria that he's just laid out for the House does he realise that only 2 percent of the current prison population will fit inside his own criteria that he's just given us?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: That is complete nonsense and that member would have to provide some evidence or some back-up to that assertion. The reality is that the bulk of the growth of the prison population are those who are not committing violent offences but those who are committing offences often consecutive convictions but who have a bunch of problems and a prison system that is doing its job of correcting people—because we call it a corrections system—can actually turn those people out to lower reoffending and therefore reduce the number of victims of crime; something that Government failed to do anything about.Hon Mark Mitchell: Mr Speaker I'll provide that evidence to the Minister. Supplementary?SPEAKER: Well—[Interruption]Hon Mark Mitchell: No he asked for the evidence.SPEAKER: No but you know that you don't reply don't you?Hon Mark Mitchell: I apologise Mr Speaker. Is someone like Jade Wilson who was sentenced to two years' imprisonment for brutally beating his girlfriend after she made a "rubbish" breakfast one of the low-level criminals he said would be placed on home detention rather than in prison?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: No. That's not correct. We know that the temptation for members opposite because of their failure in Government will be to try to characterise any effort to take people who are in prisons who can be helped—[Interruption] They will try and label them at the violent end of the offending spectrum. The reality is this: our approach to criminal justice is to take those people—that chunk of the prison population whose offending is driven by a range of factors and who with a bit of effort can actually be fixed. They can be changed. They can be turned into productive citizens and more importantly we can reduce reoffending and have fewer victims of crime. I am stunned that members opposite are not interested in reducing reoffending and having fewer victims of crime—but they can defend themselves.Hon Mark Mitchell: What is the percentage currently in prison of low-level criminals?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well I don't have that figure but what I do know and what is driving all parties in this Government is that we have a reoffending rate in our prison system of 60 percent. Now members opposite are clearly prepared to tolerate that level of failure but within that 60 percent of reoffending of current inmates are more victims of crime. My objective and my heart goes with those people who would be the victims of those reoffending. I want to stop that happening. This Government wants to stop that happen and we are going to do it.Hon Mark Mitchell: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That was a very clear question. I just simply asked how many low-level criminals are currently in our prison system and he started waffling about just about everything else but that.Hon Grant Robertson: That question is the responsibility of the Minister of Corrections not the Minister of Justice.SPEAKER: I will deal with that part first. This is the Minister who I understand is in charge of a criminal reform package which involves making decisions around a range of areas including bail and sentencing levels and if that is the case he is certainly responsible for having some knowledge in the area. But when there's such a very specific supplementary question based on a general question I think members can't insist on a specific answer. So I think what I'm saying is that both members are wrong. Further supplementary Mark Mitchell?Hon Mark Mitchell: I'm happy to take another supplementary Mr Speaker. What plans does the Minister have in coming to this House and clearly identifying for us what a low-level criminal is?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Well what I can say is we know that 43 percent of those in our prisons have not been convicted of crimes associated with violence. We know that many more have been convicted of crimes that have for example the word "assault" in their title but their conduct is not one that you would characterise as one of violence. What we do know is that we have a lot of people in prison who have mental health issues. They have addiction issues and they have a range of other problems and if we actually put the time and effort into it we can actually change those people for the good turn them out to be productive citizens lower our reoffending rate and have fewer victims of crime. That's this Government's priority."