Chhour Karen; Dean JacquiKAREN CHHOUR (ACT): I stand on behalf of ACT and I'm saying we will support this bill through the first reading because I think we need an opportunity to actually scrutinise this a bit better. It's an omnibus bill it's 82 pages long and it's actually quite complicated and it covers a lot of areas and a lot of laws and legislation that it will affect. Unfortunately a few days is not enough time for me to look through the whole thing and understand it completely so I look forward to going to select committee and scrutinising this and giving it the attention it deserves. It's well known that I came here because of the issues with Oranga Tamariki and my personal dealings with the organisation through lots of name changes and lots of promises that have never come to pass. So for me I'm very sceptical when we say we're going to make changes and I really hope that this is not just another making changes just for the sake of making changes and not actually getting any results.We hear a lot about Māori and I understand Māori are overrepresented within Oranga Tamariki but we as a country are very diverse and we have multiple cultures in this country that also come through Oranga Tamariki and we need to see it through their eyes also. So we need to make sure that this organisation is looking at people as people not just the colour of their skin and who their grandparents were but see them as children. All children feel hurt the same feel abandonment the same and feel that their voices aren't heard the same. Pain is pain. We need to make sure that we are hearing the children's voices.So I am all for oversight of Oranga Tamariki and more accountability with Oranga Tamariki and making sure that they are actually achieving what they were created for: protecting our children making sure our children are safe. No child should be hurt or abused in State care; it's absolutely unacceptable but what we also need to accept is that we should be ashamed as a country that we have got to the point where we have children dying at the hands of their own family. Why after all these years of talks and discussions and promises even from when I was a child are we still having children die at the hands of their parents? Where are we as a community and in society standing up and saying enough is enough our children deserve better than this? It's not just up to Government or Parliament to deal with this; it's up to us as a community to look at our children and see them as they are: vulnerable unable to stand up for themselves. Any policy that can be brought into place to help our children have a voice stand up for themselves and say You are not doing right by me." is good in my eyes.As I say I'm sceptical but I look forward to hearing the voices of the people that this actually affects because we sit here and we talk about the adults the grownups making decisions for our children but I look through paperwork over and over again and we hear about all the bureaucrats and all the grownups that can make their own decisions but the best interests of the child seem to have disappeared. Their voices are not being heard. I've heard promises about how we've got to give our children a voice but it's just not happening and we should be ashamed of ourselves that it's taken so long to actually have this discussion. Let's stop discussing it and actually make sure we put some action in place so that it happens.The only way we're going to do this is by coming together all parties coming together and deciding that this is the best path to go down because every time a new Government comes into place it goes backwards again because we haven't come together for what's in the best interests of our kids. We've let political views and political opinions interfere with what's in the best interests of our children. So I hope that as a select committee we can work together with all the submitters in good faith listen to people from all different views of life and actually come together. Left or right it doesn't matter; what matters is that our children are safe. What matters is that we are listening. What matters is that we should not have children on the front page of our newspaper dying at the hands of their caregivers their parents and the people that are supposed to love and care for them.We also need to acknowledge the fact that not all parents are good parents and sometimes the State does have to interfere. Blaming the State for all the issues is just not fair. We need to acknowledge that sometimes parents need to take that responsibility on board and parents need to do the right thing by their children and if they can't seek the help. There's so much help out there. Community organisations that will take you under their wing and give you the resources you need to be a better parent. Reach out to your neighbour. Reach out to your friends and your family. Tell them you're not coping because once your child dies there's no coming back from that. Whether you meant to or not whether you were stressed and not coping or not that does not bring a child back. Let's as a community look over your fence talk to your sisters your brothers your cousins your aunties and your uncles. If you think something's not right say something. If you think Oranga Tamariki in their organisation is not doing their job and not stepping up where they should speak up.This is a piece of legislation that will help you speak up. It will give you a better avenue to go to look for help and have a voice. If we put this in place there is no excuse for society to not step up and seek help and let Oranga Tamariki know where they are failing—where they are failing you where they are failing your child where they are failing your community. But at the end of the day Oranga Tamariki's only there because the child has got to the point where we need to step in and we need to do something to protect your child. Don't let it get to that point. Ask for help because no matter how much we mess around with this organisation it's not going to change if society doesn't say enough is enough.So we will support this bill and I look forward to hearing from the community families about how we can improve your voice and improve the help we can get out there for prevention rather than us having to come in and take over and ruin lives and communities because that's the last thing we want to do. We're here to protect your children. We're here to protect your community. We're not here to pull you apart. Oranga Tamariki needs to get to the point where it has the respect of the community where it knows that they're not going to be manipulated and lied to where they know they can get the help they need. Hopefully some of this legislation will make people feel more comfortable reaching out for help so I'll support this through to the first reading.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Members this debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday 16 November.Debate interrupted.The House adjourned at 5.04 p.m."