Shearer David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Shearer David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 23 May 2012. Volume:680;Page:2303. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
1. 
DAVID SHEARER (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he have confidence in all his Ministers? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister) 
: 
 Yes.  
David Shearer 
: How can he have confidence in his Minister of Finance when he predicted in Budget 2011 that economic growth would reach 4 percent and it actually reached only 1.1 percent?  
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I cannot be absolutely sure about the veracity of that statement because I can never be sure about them from Mr Shearer. But what I can say is that the Minister of Finance has been guiding the country through very difficult economic times which include the earthquakes in Christchurch the global financial crisis and the absolute mess we inherited from Labour. I know that on “Planet Labour” those things did not happen but here in the real world they did.  
David Shearer 
: How can he have confidence in his Minister of Finance when he predicted in Budget 2011 that unemployment would be a full 1 percent below the level that it is currently at?  
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I think that one of the interesting points about employment is that New Zealand now has more jobs than it has ever had in the history of this country. I do not call that failure. New Zealand has a higher labour participation rate than Australia New Zealand has created 60000 jobs in the last 2 years and that is despite the fact that we have had to deal with a global financial crisis the earthquakes in Christchurch and the mess we inherited from Labour.  
David Shearer 
: Does he accept his Minister of Finance’s excuses for poor economic performance when both the global financial crisis and the Canterbury earthquakes occurred prior to the 2011 Budget?  
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: For a start off the global financial crisis has been rolling round since about 2008-09. New Zealand was actually in recession and had virtually a year of negative growth in 2008 before we took over. But let us put it to this test: not that long ago we had an election and we went to the country with Bill English’s prescription for the economy and that of one of the muppets from over there—I cannot remember which one—and the answer was we won.  
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Prime Minister’s first answer which included the statement that he—and I quote him—“cannot be sure about the veracity of that statement” mean he does not know that the growth rate is not 4 percent as he predicted but rather 1.1 percent?  
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: No. It means that when David Shearer assigns a comment to someone I cannot be sure it is correct.  
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Prime Minister know or not know that the current growth rate is 1.1 percent? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I know that that was the historical rate not the rate necessarily going forward. 
David Shearer 
: Would a zero Budget have been required had his Government met its growth forecast of 4 percent? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: In my opinion yes. The reason for that is we inherited such a mess from Labour. We are having to pay off those debts that it basically inflicted on the New Zealand economy through some wild spending programmes and a hugely inefficient sector. And just before those members get on their high horse let us remember what state they left the export sector of New Zealand—in recession since 2000. 
David Shearer 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think that answer was well wide of the mark in terms of the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I allowed the Prime Minister to go on too long and I criticise myself for that. However he did answer the question because the Leader of the Opposition had asked whether a zero Budget would have been necessary had the economy grown at 4 percent as projected and the Prime Minister said “yes”—that he believed that a zero Budget would still have been necessary. So he answered the question. But I allowed him to go on too long and for that I apologise. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have been listening very carefully to the Leader of the Opposition—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member is entitled to raise a point of order. It must be a point of order though. 
Chris Hipkins 
: I have been listening very carefully to the Leader of the Opposition’s questions all of which have been in accordance with your requirement that they be straight questions with no conjecture or political attack and yet all of the Prime Minister’s answers have attacked the Opposition. You have said to us that if we ask straight questions you will insist on straight answers and I am asking you today to actually make sure that that ruling applies to the Prime Minister as well as to other Ministers. 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: It is a straight answer to say that we have been living through a global financial crisis an earthquake in Christchurch and a— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That is not a matter of order. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I am on my feet. The Prime Minister is defending his answer and that is not a matter of order. The member raised a fair point. The only thing I would point out is that where questions do seek an opinion they are always more risky than those seeking actual information. I have criticised myself already—I allowed the Prime Minister to go on a bit too long. But opinions were being sought and that is the difficulty in stopping him quite as quickly as perhaps I should have. But I think the member’s point was well made because there was no political innuendo I think in the questions asked and that is why I think some of the answers went on too long. 
David Shearer 
: How can he have confidence in any claim his Minister of Finance makes in tomorrow’s Budget when his previous Budget forecasts have failed to come true year after year after year; or will he simply fall back on the same old excuses tomorrow as well? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Firstly I do not accept that claim as being correct. In fact the Leader of the Opposition yesterday directly in his primary question asked me questions about the forecasted growth rates in the 2009 Budget and as my answer proved the actual rates were fairly close to those. But secondly and most important we on this side of the House live in the real world and in the real world things change and you adapt to them. Whether they are the Christchurch earthquakes or the global financial crisis or the mess we inherited from Labour all of those things are things that have changed as time has gone on. We did not realise the enormous mess that Labour had left until we— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I think that is sufficient. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I cannot help but smile because I accepted that I had been a bit remiss in not pulling the Prime Minister up on earlier questions and I immediately got a supplementary question that was highly politically loaded. But I guess that is the way the cookie crumbles. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: How can he have confidence in the Minister of Finance when his projections have debt continuing to grow under his National Government for the next 5 years to at least $75 billion? It was $6 billion when National came to power and was up to $50 billion by 2011 an increase already of over 700 percent. What gives him confidence in that sort of tutelage and management?  
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Could you ask the member to repeat the question? He was mumbling a wee bit and I could not hear it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! I would like the Rt Hon Winston Peters to repeat his question.  
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: This is the man famous for his diction is he not? How can he have confidence in the Minister of Finance when he has allowed debt to increase from $6 billion in 2008 to $50 billion at the end of 2011—an increase of over 700 percent—and by his projections debt will continue to grow under his National Government for the next 5 years to at least $75 billion? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I reckon that is a fascinating question actually from Winston Peters. This is the answer: in that period of time the Government has insulated New Zealanders from the worst of the recessions and applied about $13 billion in total to the Christchurch earthquake. So what New Zealand First and Winston Peters have just told New Zealanders is that if he was the Treasurer he would not be supporting Working for Families the pension age would be going up entitlements would be going the health system would be slashed education would be slashed— 
Todd McClay 
: And nothing for Christchurch. 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: —and there would be nothing for Christchurch. I bet you that next time he is down in Christchurch he will not be looking the people of Christchurch in the eye— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order!  
Dr Russel Norman 
: Supplementary— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I apologise to the member. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! Before I call Dr Russel Norman I say to the National Party on this occasion right round the House to please show a little more courtesy to the House.  
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he recall the Minister of Finance saying in his Budget speech 2010 that New Zealand’s largest single vulnerability is now its large and growing net external liabilities and does he still stand by that statement? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I cannot tell you whether the Minister of Finance stands by that statement because that is a statement assigned to him—or are you saying I said it? 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Do you agree with that statement? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: Well that is a different question is it not?  
Mr SPEAKER 
: Could the—[ 
Interruption 
] Order! It seems that the Prime Minister has answered the question because the question got somewhat confused. I call Dr Russel Norman for a supplementary question. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! Please I say to National Party members give Dr Russel Norman the chance to ask his supplementary question.  
Dr Russel Norman 
: On what basis does he have confidence in his Minister of Finance given that the Minister of Finance said in his Budget speech 2010 that New Zealand’s largest single vulnerability is now its large and growing net external liabilities and that international debt is projected to grow every year under his policies? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: I think if one was to look at the policies of the Minister of Finance and see what they are doing for New Zealand in very difficult conditions and contrast that with the rest of the world one would have enormous confidence in Bill English as Minister of Finance. New Zealand is a country that is growing; many other countries are simply not. New Zealand is a country that will be back in surplus; many other countries will never be back in surplus. New Zealand is a country that actually provides support for New Zealanders whether it is through Working for Families or through increasing the minimum wage under a Bill English - led finance team. If you go and have a look at the other policies we have had—making sure we get better value for money a tax system that works reform of accident compensation reform of the Resource Management Act reform of employment legislation—if you look at all those things and put them in the context of a world that is suffering from a global financial crisis I will bet you that many people in the world would rather have New Zealand than the problems in their own countries.  
Mr SPEAKER 
: Just before I call Dr Russel Norman can I remind all members that when they refer to “you” they are referring to the Speaker. If the Prime Minister is intending to refer to the Speaker that is fine.  
Dr Russel Norman 
: Given that Treasury’s projections show that for every year going forward the current account deficit increases and the net international investment position gets worse how can he have confidence that he is achieving his own goal of rebalancing the economy? When Treasury’s own projections show that the economy is becoming more imbalanced why would he have confidence in his Minister of Finance? 
Rt Hon JOHN KEY 
: The first thing is I am not entirely sure they show that. Secondly when he says “my own goal” it is actually the Minister of Finance’s goal although I am prepared to accept that. Thirdly in terms of the position of the net external liabilities part of that reflects the fact that New Zealand is a good operating environment. We are actually seeing capital coming in to invest in New Zealand. But the current account deficit has been a problem for New Zealand for over 30 years. The last person who campaigned on fixing that problem was Michael Cullen. He campaigned to halve it and he doubled it.