1. Working for Families—Spending and Budget ChangesJACINDA ARDERN (Deputy Leader—Labour) to the Minister of FinanceORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSWorking for Families—Spending and Budget Changes1. JACINDA ARDERN (Deputy Leader—Labour) to the Minister of Finance: Has total spending on Working for Families decreased while his Government has been in office; if so by how much?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Finance): Spending across the various tax credits that make up Working for Families was $2.568 billion in 2008 and the half-year update released last December forecast it to be $2.392 billion for 2017. This equates to a difference of $176 million or a reduction of 6.86 percent. Of course this Government does not measure success by how much we pay people through Working for Families or the welfare system. The ultimate measure of success is how increasing wages and jobs from a strong economy can support people to no longer require such assistance.Jacinda Ardern: Can he confirm that in the 2011 Budget his Government cut $448 million from Working for Families by reducing entitlements?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No I cannot provide that exact number for the member. What I can confirm for the member is that in the March year of 2011 the number of families that were supported by Working for Families was 421000 families and that has reduced since then to around 329000 families—which is good news because they are no longer dependent on the Working for Families programme.Jacinda Ardern: Does he stand by the Minister of Finance's statement in 2011 that Working for Families was cut by $448 million so that the money could be used on reducing borrowing" borrowing that has in fact increased by billions of dollars since that time?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: The member may not be aware that when we came into office we were greeted with the news from Treasury that the rather large spending programmes of the previous Government were going to provide a decade of deficits to the New Zealand economy. Of course we made a number of changes to the Government's expenditure profile in order to cope with that. We also paid for the support of the vulnerable people through the global financial crisis. We paid also for the rebuild of Christchurch. This may all be unfamiliar territory for the member but the Government has done a good job of supporting New Zealanders and also getting back into surplus.Jacinda Ardern: Can he confirm that the increase in Budget 2015 to beneficiary families of $25 per week also included an increase in the Working for Families abatement rate leaving 18000 families worse off and reducing the amount that beneficiary families actually received?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No. What I can confirm for the member is that the point she made about the Budget is correct and that is that we made the first increase in benefits in real terms by any Government for a very very long time including as far as I can remember a number of Labour Governments that did not get round to increasing benefits in real terms for anybody. In terms of the indexation the Government does have a programme to target Working for Families to lower-income families that need it and we are pleased to provide that support.Jacinda Ardern: Will this be another Budget where his Government gives with one hand what it has already taken away from families with the other?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: No this Budget will be about supporting an economy that provides more and more jobs for New Zealanders. We now have over 2.5 million New Zealanders employed in this country for the first time—in fact 2.5 million and another 30000 on top of that. That is the definition of success not how many people we can make dependent on the State which is the Labour Party's definition of success."