Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:14522] 
5.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Coordinating Minister Race Relations 
: Does he stand by his statement “I regard myself as an indigenous New Zealander—I come from Wainuiomata.”; if so why? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Coordinating Minister Race Relations) 
: 
 Yes. I suggest that the member reads the speech. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Has the Minister had any communication with the Prime Minister on his view of himself as indigenous given her refusal to back him up and her statement when asked whether she was indigenous that she was simply a New Zealander; if so what did she say? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes I have had a number of conversations with the Prime Minister on this and I think one of the really interesting things about speeches such as the one I gave is that they cause New Zealanders to discuss the sort of country we want in the future. 
Darren Hughes 
: Has the Minister’s point of view been supported by any historians? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think the late Michael King’s comment in  
Being Pakeha Now 
 is quite appropriate: “Like the ancestors of the Maori they came as immigrants. Like Maori too we became indigenous at the point where our focus of identity and commitment shifted to this country and away from our countries and cultures of origin.” I think he put that very well. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Minister have any idea as to how pathetic it must seem internationally when the two old parties have no idea who is native who is indigenous and who is a New Zealander and why cannot they accept the saying of the British Empire that—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is the last warning today for that member interjecting. Please carry on. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I have lost it completely. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Well start the question again. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I know full well that they will not know either! Does the Minister not understand how pathetic it must seem internationally when the two old parties spend all their time arguing about who is indigenous who is native and who is a New Zealander; and why cannot they accept that “native” means the same as it meant when the British Empire used to say: “The natives are getting restless.” and get with the 21st century? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think the member as far as the National Party goes has a point. I thank him for his support and I will forget why we used to call him Luigi. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That allegation is disgraceful. It was first made by a number of rather envious people at Auckland University even though I was the Auckland Maori rugby captain and that is why it is a disgrace. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I say to the member that he is always saying we ought to lighten up a little and allow a few comments to be made and I took it in that nature. But he has drawn attention to something that strictly speaking is against the Standing Orders. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Is the Minister aware of the United Nations’ definition of indigenous people which refers to communities having “historical continuity with pre-invasion and pre-colonial societies”— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Here we go. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Parliament does not like to hear it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is perfectly correct. Please be seated. Every member has a perfect right being properly elected and sworn in in this place to have his or her question heard. Members will have their points of view heard in silence. I have allowed a little bit of light-heartedness but I will be sending someone out. If the member wants to ask a question he is perfectly entitled to. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: There is historical amnesia in Parliament. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No that is unfortunate for the member. The member really should not be allowed to ask the question at this stage if he is going to make those sorts of comments after I have backed him up. That was a very silly thing to do. I want him to stand withdraw and apologise. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please ask the question as you have it written in front of you. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Is the Minister aware of the United Nations’ definition of indigenous people which refers to communities having “historical continuity with pre-invasion and pre-colonial societies” and does he agree that by that definition while Pakeha cannot call ourselves indigenous or tangata whenua we do belong here by right of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and can justly call ourselves tangata tiriti? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: An enormous amount of discussion goes on in that area but if one took that argument to its logical conclusion all of those who arrived on a canoe other than the first canoe would not be indigenous. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Did the Minister seek the views of his parliamentary colleagues in the Labour Maori caucus prior to giving his speech where he claimed indigenous status; if not was it because he knew that they disagreed with him—or perhaps he just did not care? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I do not think anyone would accuse me of not caring. Two of my Maori caucus colleagues read the speech before it was given and I am told that I am invited to share my views with the rest in the near future. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Does he think it reflects badly on him as the Minister responsible for the treaty education programme that junior colleagues like the obedient John Tamihere or the compliant Dover Samuels— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I will reword it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I have warned the member. I have already given a warning. He knows that is not in order. He must now come to his question very quickly and if any of those words are used again he will not be asking it. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. So I am not allowed to use words like that when it is well documented that— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No please be seated. The member is running the risk of being asked to leave the House. He will ask his question without those comments. This is question time. He can call those members that in general debate—that is fine—but this is question time. Please ask the question. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Why is it acceptable for the Minister to refer to a member by a well-known nickname which the member himself has just said is derogatory but when we get up to ask a question using the same Standing Orders we get shut down? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will tell the member why: because I thought that was a humorous remark and so did the member concerned. If I thought there was anything in it that was derogatory he would not have been able to use it. I know the member well enough to know that what I am saying is perfectly correct. Now please ask the question properly. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I think we will leave it and use our question somewhere else. It is a waste of time. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: I seek leave to table the United Nations’ definition of indigenous people. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: I seek leave to table a rather good article I wrote about this very matter in March available on www.greens.org.nz. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is.