5. Question No. 5—Social Development and EmploymentHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour—Kelston) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 5—Social Development and Employment5. Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour—Kelston) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: What advice has she received from the Ministry of Social Development that informed the Government target of reducing jobseeker benefits by 50000 by 2030?Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment): I've received lots of advice from the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) to inform the ambitious target of ensuring more New Zealanders reap the rewards and opportunities a job provides. It's not possible to go through all the advice in the time to answer an oral question including advice about the substantial increase in jobseeker benefit recipients over recent years and how the target means reversing this trend.Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Did the Ministry of Social Development recommend the target of 50000 and if not who did?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: A number of scenarios have been looked at in terms of coming up with a target. We've balanced it with being really ambitious in terms of supporting the number of people into employment and I'm really proud to have landed on 50000.Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Will those on jobseeker support – health condition or disability be excluded from the proposed 50000 reduction; if not why not?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: All job seekers deserve the same opportunities to get support and service to focus them on the rewards that work provides. We don't discriminate. We want to use every single day that is available to support people towards work.Hon Carmel Sepuloni: How does she intend to reduce the amount of people on jobseeker support – work ready by nearly 50 percent at a time when unemployment is expected to rise?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I accept that we are in really challenging economic conditions that we have inherited as a Government but I don't shy away from the fact that every person who is either on jobseeker benefit now or may lose a job in the coming weeks and months ahead MSD the welfare system will be far more active in supporting people to be ready for work or in work.Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Will the reduction of 50000 beneficiaries be purely based on those who exit into work or will they also include those who exit because they go to prison move overseas change relationship status reach age of eligibility for superannuation or sadly die and if all of the above why does she keep saying the target is about supporting people into work?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: We have nearly 190000 people today on the jobseeker benefit. This Government is absolutely and deliberately focused on supporting people into employment and the way we measure our success is to have 50000 fewer people on the jobseeker benefit by 2030. It won't be easy but it is a challenge that this Government embraces because we know the opportunities that having a job provides.Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Point of order Mr Speaker. I want to know whether or not the exits of 50000 or reduced number of 50000 beneficiaries—SPEAKER: This is not the way to get the answer.Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Well I don't think that she addressed the question Mr Speaker. Do you want me to explain why or no?SPEAKER: The problem rule is this that people asking a question may not get the answer they want but for them to explain why the answer they wanted hasn't been given is not part of the Standing Orders arrangements. So what I will do is as much as I've looked at another question I was asked to yesterday I will look at the Hansard and make a call on that point. But I'll tell you what to be fair and reasonable have a supplementary that doesn't come off your list.Hon Carmel Sepuloni: OK. Will the reduction of 50000 beneficiaries be purely based on those who exit benefit into work?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I don't think I can be any clearer. This is about those who are currently on the jobseeker support benefit—not main benefits; jobseeker support. We want to see 50000 fewer people receiving the jobseeker benefit support by the year 2030.