Webb DuncanDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Kia ora Mr Speaker. Mr Mitchell probably isn't used to doing an urgent debate that his party hasn't called because he really was struggling for material there reading from a transcript of the Air New Zealand examination. But look you know what?Hon Peeni Henare: Written by Chris Luxon!Dr DUNCAN WEBB: I want to hit the very foundation of this. You're right Mr Henare! I want to hit the absolute foundation of this question because for some bizarre reason on that side of the House they don't seem to know any company law. So the question is: what is in the interests of a company? And you know what? It appears bizarrely that that side of the House thinks that it's not in the best interests of a company to take notice of climate change. They think it's in the best interests of a company to burn aviation fuel till the cows come home and not take any notice of the fact that the world is changing. Julie Anne Genter touched on that at length and she's right. But you know she's not alone. Chapman Tripp that very well-respected law firm had a sustainable finance forum in 2019. Do you know what they said? They said it would be a breach of the duties of a director not to take climate change into account. So when we think about it companies need to be prepared for the future. It is absolutely responsible for them to do that.Hon Mark Mitchell: So how can they do that with a 9 percent interest rate on a facility?Dr DUNCAN WEBB: This is found in section 131 of the Companies Act.Hon Mark Mitchell: They won't draw down on it.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: It's the law. You have to read it Mr Mitchell.Hon Mark Mitchell: They won't draw down on it.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: So why don't you go and open a book? You must be reading now: your lips are moving! Now look we need to go back and look at the Companies Act. What the Act says is that a director must act in the best interests of a company. What does that mean? Does it mean they've got to improve profits at all costs or does it mean that they can be a responsible citizen look after their communities look after their environment look after their people and at the same time run a profitable business? Well it's not hard is it? The days of the neo-liberal money at all costs" are gone. The sun has set thank goodness for that. We now expect all of our corporate citizens to act responsibly.Of course it's appropriate for the Minister to set out to Air New Zealand those things that he sees as responsible corporate citizenship. So to be a national airline—to the people of New Zealand you and I are the key shareholders and it is entirely appropriate for it to be a proper airline that offers full services that don't just serve me in Christchurch Helen White in Auckland but even people in Kerikeri in Gore in Invercargill Hawke's Bay—the list goes on and on. Look as Grant Robertson said—fantastic Minister of Finance with great stewardship of this company and the nation's assets—this is a critical part of our infrastructure. New Zealand needs a national airline to connect each other and to connect us to the world. It is absolutely critical that the shareholders in that company through Grant Robertson let the company know that. To simply ask that it has comprehensive domestic routes so that people can be connected so that people who want to can come to this place and make their views be known because everyone's views are important—that is entirely appropriate and makes that company a good corporate citizen.So we do need to look at the Companies Act and recognise that when it says "the interests of the company" it doesn't just mean maximising the profits of the company. It's really important to note that in that Act and elsewhere it is very clear that that is an open definition. When we ask what's in the interest of you or I it's not making more money or having more money in the bank. It's no good having money in the bank if we're depressed and sick. We want a company that is healthy in every respect.So the letter from the Minister is absolutely on all fours with this. And section 131 of the Companies Act itself sets out situations when the company can properly act in the interests of other parties. Here's an interesting fact: if the company is a subsidiary owned 51 percent or more by another party it can act in the interests of its holding company. Now that's not a million miles from a situation where the holding company is the people of New Zealand. Entirely appropriate to say "Look you're not simply a widely held company. You've got a majority shareholding and of course the majority shareholder wants to have a say."I'm quite flummoxed by the floundering around of the Opposition. They don't seem to understand—Kieran McAnulty: They don't know what "flummoxed" means!Dr DUNCAN WEBB: They don't know what "flummoxed" means Mr McAnulty! They don't know what company law means. They don't know what best interests means. They don't even know what leadership means. So here we are asking them to be a leader in good workplace relations. We know that a workplace with happy employees employees that are well looked after and well paid is a good company a strong company.Look the fact of the matter is that all this can be done whilst maintaining a good bottom-line as indeed the Minister makes very clear in the letter which Mr Mitchell basically read out. So we know that to do this is nothing more than what would be expected. So we absolutely as a country need to get away from the suggestion that the interests of a company are simply the interests of making more money and maximising the bottom line whilst at the same time the environmental bottom-line is degraded; the human resources the human capital bottom-line is degraded; the structure of New Zealand the transport infrastructure of New Zealand is degraded. That just goes to show the narrow short-term thinking of the Opposition and of the ACT Party in bringing this urgent debate to the House.The fact of the matter is that this letter showed that this Government is committed to long-term thinking. Aviation is a big emitter of climate emissions and we need to address that but at the same time we know we need to stay connected with the world. We know that this is an important part of our infrastructure. So we're saying as you look forward—Hon Simon Bridges: You guys have shut up shop.Dr DUNCAN WEBB: —not just two years Mr Bridges not just to the election but look forward 10 years and 30 years for the prosperity of New Zealand it's appropriate to absolutely look at the climate profile of aviation and the wider transport industry. We want to be leaders. So yes go ahead and investigate alternate fuels. Can we use biofuel as an aviation fuel? Why don't you look at that? What other low-emission alternatives are out there? What other kinds of fuel in aviation exist? Can we have electric planes? Let's explore all of those options. If we lead the world in this this will be one of the best airlines in the world—even better than it is already and we all know how good Air New Zealand is.Absolutely we want this to be done sustainably—sustainably in an environmental sense and sustainably in a commercial sense—so it's entirely appropriate that the Government supported Air New Zealand by funding it through one of the most troubling and traumatic periods that could be imagined. And we were right there. At the time if I remember rightly so was the other side. There wasn't a whisper. They did not demur that we should be funding Air New Zealand. They probably weren't looking—who knows? So there you go. At the time they were entirely behind us and now they're changing their mind—divided distracted and not really knowing the right hand from the left.Members on the other side of the House have repeatedly called for Air New Zealand to fly to their own part of the country. Nathan Guy—now he was a good guy wasn't he? He wanted them to fly to Kāpiti if I remember rightly. But you know—so here he was standing up in the House and now when we have it here they're saying "No no. Don't advocate for regional New Zealand." Well we will advocate for regional New Zealand because we are the party that cares for all New Zealanders—in cities in the regions and across the board.So what this letter shows this letter of instruction or of recommendation from Grant Robertson is that he's a responsible Minister a Minister who takes a long-term view and has the interests of all New Zealanders at heart and the interests of Air New Zealand as a fantastic company. Well done Minister Robertson.The debate having concluded the motion lapsed."