11. Question No. 11—Public ServiceSIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga) to the Minister for the Public ServiceQuestion No. 11—Public Service11. SIMEON BROWN (National—Pakuranga) to the Minister for the Public Service: What actions if any has he taken to address the use of contractors and consultants in the Public Service?Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister for the Public Service): I am continuing the actions of my predecessor—[Interruption] I'll start that again. I am continuing the astute actions of my predecessor in ensuring the use by the Public Service of contractors and consultants is properly monitored and managed. In 2018 this Government removed the cap on the core Government administration which is what drove up contractors under the last Government and conveyed through the Public Service Commissioner to all Public Service agencies the expectation that they invest in building their core Public Service and reduce their reliance on external capability. We implemented a more transparent reporting method that now accurately reports on the spend of contractors and consultants. That spend is reported to the Public Service Commission on a quarterly basis. These measures saw the spending on contractors and consultants in the Public Service fall from 13.4 percent of spending on Public Service workforce in 2017/2018 to 10.4 percent in 2020/2021. The proportion rose in the 2021/2022 financial year to 14.6 percent because of COVID-19 and the Government's reform programme. Change requires the core Public Service to engage external expertise in the form of contractors and consultants for short periods of time from time to time. If the member expects every problem to be addressed by adding a permanent fulltime-equivalent employee to the Public Service then the permanent Public Service would be significantly larger than it is now.Simeon Brown: Has he or his predecessor sent a memo or a minute to the Public Service Commissioner asking him to direct the Public Service to reduce its reliance on contractors and consultants; if not why not?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I draw the member's attention to my answer to his primary question which is that we now engage in active monitoring of the Public Service's use of contractors and consultants and that is reported on a quarterly basis to the Public Service Commission and that informs the actions of both the commission and of course of Public Service management.Simeon Brown: Will his active monitoring include sending a minute or a memo to the Minister of Transport for spending over $50 million on contractors and consultants for Auckland light rail which has gone nowhere?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: What's important to recognise is that when as this Government has faced many times we have urgent situations arising—whether it's a worldwide pandemic or whether it's a cyclone response—we have in place measures across our Public Service to provide support to people who need it most. So for example in the wake of the recent Cyclone Gabrielle we've been able to put in place very very quickly the means to get financial assistance to farmers and growers and members of the community who need it urgently. The member opposite and his party may trivialise the capability of the Public Service to do that but it's absolutely vital to support our communities in their time of need.Simeon Brown: Point of order. The question was in regards to his monitoring and whether that would include expenditure on light rail. I didn't hear any reference to that through the entirety of that answer.SPEAKER: Yeah but the question also had a major assertion in it that was addressed. Any further supplementary?Hon Michael Wood: Can the Minister confirm that significant transport projects such as the Eastern Busway which have wide support in this House cannot be delivered without the use of specialist contractors?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The member makes a very important point that this is a Government that has totally embraced the need to step up the quality and capability of our transport networks including our roading transport that had been neglected for nine years under the previous Government because they froze funding and redirected funding to a very small number of large projects. In order to carry out projects that make a big difference to our metropolitan centres as well as our provincial centres we need short-term expertise to come in and assist with the design and delivery of that capability.Simeon Brown: Does he think that spending $72 million on contractors and consultants last year to restructure the entire health system in the middle of a pandemic is a good use of taxpayers' money and if not will he be sending a minute or a memo to the former Minister of Health?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: The objectives of the health reform were to first of all make sure that rather than having 20 centres of decision making and operation we consolidate that into one to ensure that we get consistency of healthcare across the country. It also ensured that the appalling performance that our health system has had for Māori health is actually radically trained by the institution of Te Aka Whai Ora—Māori Health Authority to provide leadership and te tino rangatiratanga for Māori for their health needs and that's an important investment that will last decades into the future and better serve the needs of all New Zealand communities.Hon Grant Robertson: Would the Minister consider a report that cost $200000 pro bono work as the former chair of the Prime Minister's Business Advisory Council appears to do with the McKinsey report which he called pro bono this morning on TV but in fact cost $200000?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I think it is important that in the Public Service we do get our definitions correct and that pro bono" means that you don't pay anything for it and that advice to us for $200000 is labelled as "advice costing $200000". If it comes from McKinsey then it has come from a consultant.Simeon Brown: Does he think he will have any more success than his predecessor in getting the Public Service to reduce its reliance on expensive contractors and consultants and if so why?Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I draw the member's attention to my answer to his primary question where I outlined actually the achievement of my predecessor in getting down the proportion of Public Service spend on consultants. But what we can't predict or control for is the outbreak of a worldwide pandemic."