8. Question No. 8—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 8—Social Development and Employment8. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by the application of sanctions to people who receive the jobseeker – health condition and disability benefit for failing to prepare for work"; if so what is the purpose of these sanctions?Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Acting Minister for Social Development and Employment): I do stand by our current approach to the use of sanctions which is only to use sanctions as a last resort and to work with a client to ensure that they meet their obligations. The obligations a client has is based on what they are capable of according to medical advice. Any decision to reduce or pause benefit payments is never made quickly or taken lightly. A sanction is only applied if someone has failed their obligation and refused the opportunities they are provided to re-comply or to provide a good reason for noncompliance before their payments are reduced. This Government is focused on supporting people on a benefit and helping them to achieve their goals not on penalising them.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she stand by her statement from Tuesday "We have to remember that people with health conditions and disabilities often have aspirations to work as well."; if so how do benefit sanctions support these aspirations?Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN: Yes I do. That's why as I've said in my response to the primary question that they are only used as a last resort and that the focus of the Government is to support those who can into work based on the medical advice that is provided.Hon James Shaw: Point of order Mr Speaker. I just want to clarify that the Minister is speaking on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment.SPEAKER: No the Minister is acting. So she is answering.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does she agree with the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern who said of sanctions in 2013 "The message it sends is that the jobseeker's role is to look for work and the Government's role is no longer to ensure that there are jobs to train to educate and to help you move into work. No the Government's role is simply to sanction when you fail."?Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN: I do agree with that statement. That's why this Government has placed an emphasis on supporting people who can into finding work that is sustainable and meaningful and pays a good wage. Also as I said previously that's why sanctions are only used as an absolute last resort.Ricardo Menéndez March: Can she provide any evidence to support that benefit sanctions support disabled people and people with health conditions to meet their aspirations?Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN: I can provide evidence that our approach is working because we've actually seen record numbers of exits into work for people with health conditions and disabilities. In the year to June 2022 17295 people on jobseeker – health condition and disability exited into work almost double the number in the year to June 2017. Just to add in the June 2022 quarter only 156 people out of the over 70000 on a jobseeker – health condition and disability actually received a sanction for failing to prepare for work. So the combination of using sanctions as a last resort and a focus on supporting people who can into work does appear to be working.Ricardo Menéndez March: What is an acceptable number of disabled people who should be sanctioned by the Government?Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN: It's not about an acceptable number; it's about the approach which is not to resort immediately to punitive measures but to actually work with people who can to find the work that is meaningful to them to take into account the medical advice that is provided and to use—as I've said multiple times—sanctions as an absolute last resort.Ricardo Menéndez March: What is her response to Roger who participated in the 2021 Beneficiary Advisory Service research titled "Understanding Welfare Sanctions in Aotearoa" and noted that being called into repeated meetings at short notice upon threat of a sanction left him on edge anxious and in a persistent state of stress saying "I lost my mental health. If there was a little a bit left I lost it."?Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN: The evidence that I can point to in fact that was undertaken also by the Welfare Expert Advisory Group was that harsh regimes of sanctions often wasn't proven to work but the less severe regimes where sanctions were a last resort were the ones that proved to have some benefit in terms of motivating people who could into work. I would also point to my previous response once again: they are an absolute last resort. The focus is on ensuring that those at the front lines of the Ministry of Social Development take into account medical advice that is provided and work alongside and with those beneficiaries to enter work as and when they can."