Logie Jan: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLogie Jan: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 24 September 2015. Volume:709;Page:7062. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.JAN LOGIE (Green) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by her answer to written question 10747 (2015) that “Neither the Ministry nor myself are aware of Serco staff ever visiting any Child Youth and Family site”?Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development): I have been advised this morning by Child Youth and Family that case managers from the Serco-managed Auckland South Corrections Facility visited Korowai Manaaki Youth Justice North on 4 May 2015. I have also been made aware that case managers from the Serco-managed site have visited other Child Youth and Family sites to discuss the relationship between the prison and Child Youth and Family and/or the transition and management of young people from youth justice into adult corrections systems. I make the point that Korowai Manaaki and Auckland South Corrections Facility are next door to each other. I answered written question No. 10747 on the advice I was provided by the Ministry of Social Development. This advice was incorrect and I apologise to the member.Jan Logie: Given that so many other MPs on this side of the House knew about those visits does the Minister really expect us to believe that she did not know—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! That question is completely out of order. It is questioning the integrity of a member of this House. Does the member have further supplementary questions?Jan Logie: I do Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Good. We will hear them.Jan Logie: Is the Minister satisfied with the relationship she has with her staff in the ministry—that she was not aware of those visits when so many of us in this House were?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: I am very disappointed that I got incorrect information to answer a written question of course. But I would point out that in the management of young people from youth justice into the prison system it is absolutely essential and I would expect nothing less that there was a good relationship to manage that transition. That is a normal operational activity and I would be surprised at anything less than that.Jan Logie: Is the Minister assuming a transition from youth justice to adult prison? I thought that this Government was seeking to break that relationship.Mr SPEAKER: The first part of the question is in order.Hon ANNE TOLLEY: For the member’s education there are occasionally young people who are on indictable charges and it is very obvious that they will be transferred into the prison service from a youth justice facility where they may well be on remand or they may well be awaiting sentencing. In those cases of course there needs to be a well-managed transition for the sake of those young people.Jan Logie: Given the stories that this House is well aware of of the standard of care within Serco prisons is that the aspiration she has for the care of those young people currently in youth justice services?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: No Minister has any ability to overrule a sentence handed down by a court.Jan Logie: Why is the Minister also expecting philanthropic trusts to fund child advocacy a core component of the new proposed care model which will effectively outsource this core Government responsibility?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: It is a hang of a long way away from the primary question but I am very happy to answer it—because in fact the young people themselves have asked for it. I would have thought that any advocacy on behalf of young people in care needs to be independent from the Government. I have stated publicly that I support independent advocacy for them. I have indicated that there may well be some services that the Government may wish to contract from them looking at overseas models. But I think it is exceptionally important that they are able to act and advocate for young people in care completely independently from the Government.Jan Logie: Does her decision not to fund the child advocacy service and the circling interest of Serco indicate an underlying agenda of privatising childcare services?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: The member needs to take her tin hat off. The two are completely different and I would say—if the member reads the report that I released today—no decisions have been made about what to fund or what not to fund. So stop looking for secret agendas and welcome the fact that this Government is actively supporting and the expert panel are recommending and philanthropic organisations are very interested in funding an independent advocacy group for young people in care.Carmel Sepuloni: When I asked written question No. 10310—“How many times if any have staff members from the Ministry of Social Development met with staff from the private company Serco in the last 12 months …”—why did she reply on 20 August that she had had no discussions with Serco about the provision of services in the social sector given all I wanted to know was whether they had met?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Because my answer to the question was absolutely correct. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! If I am going to call a member—[Interruption] Order!Carmel Sepuloni: Given that she has been asked the same question twice and answered incorrectly both times how can we and the general public be assured that she is providing accurate advice?Hon ANNE TOLLEY: Because I have had two different answers. [Interruption] The answer that I gave—Hon Members: It was wrong.Hon ANNE TOLLEY: No it was absolutely correct. I have had no discussions with Serco because if the member cares to read the answer that I gave to the written question—Carmel Sepuloni: I read out the answer. Wrong.Hon ANNE TOLLEY: If the member stops talking and listens—Carmel Sepuloni: Give us something worth listening to.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I suspect there is not much point in carrying on the answer if the member does not want to hear it.