3. Question No. 3—Prime MinisterDAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Prime MinisterQuestion No. 3—Prime Minister3. DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement that with Covid raging outside our borders and new more transmissible strains emerging we have had to both make continual improvements to strengthen our border while continuing to plan and prepare for managing any resurgence in the most effective way possible"?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes as I've previously described—all relevant agencies across Government to make continuous improvements to our defence at the border and to plan for any resurgence in the community. This includes changes in anticipation of a variant of concern emerging in Aotearoa New Zealand. These improvements include the wider use of pre-departure testing; continued improvements of our system of managed isolation; the introduction of restrictions on passengers coming from very high-risk countries; the extensive use of whole genome sequencing; waste-water testing; boosting surge testing capacity; system readiness planning and preparation; contact tracing capacity; requirements for face covering; updates to the New Zealand COVID Tracer and Bluetooth app. Our preparedness is why even in the middle of a community outbreak New Zealand continues to have some of the lowest number of cases of any country in the developed world. Malo 'aupito.David Seymour: Does she agree with Professor Michael Baker that "As soon as a positive person arrives in New Zealand MIQ our risk of a local outbreak goes up exponentially."?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I do agree that of course as soon as you have COVID cases at your border that does present risk which is why we have such stringent arrangements. And even in this case that person having a test once they arrive as soon as it was found to be positive you have staff in full personal protective equipment transferring that person to a quarantine facility. We have regular testing of our staff we have vaccination requirements of our staff and 160000 people who have been managed through managed isolation facilities with very few incidents. It just so happens when you do have an incident it can have a devastating impact. And that's obviously what many places have experienced.David Seymour: Why then did the Government decide to announce on 9 July that people returning from New South Wales would not need to get a pre-departure test before coming to New Zealand and entering managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ)?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Because that was the advice provided by the Ministry of Health.David Seymour: Why did the Government accept that Ministry of Health advice which amounts to saying there is more risk of catching COVID while going out to get a test than there is of that test catching a case of COVID?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Two things to keep in mind. We put in place pre-departure testing ourselves midway through our programme as an extra layer. However people are still coming into managed isolation facilities. So the advice of the public health team was that rather than most countries in the world where people are simply coming from everyday life and coming into New Zealand we had a situation where New South Wales had already been in lockdown. So the view of the public health team was that because of multiple reasons including the fact that they had already been in lockdown and that they would go straight into quarantine—it was their view that they should come over on red flights and go straight in. I would also add that there were some other factors there around the availability in red flights and things that were added complications.David Seymour: Did the Government make any representations to Australian authorities or to the airlines to try and coordinate pre-departure tests prior to repatriation flights leaving New South Wales which might have addressed those complications the Prime Minister just mentioned?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I'll just caution the member because the implication here is that had we had pre-departure testing we wouldn't have the individual who came into New Zealand with a case—and that's simply not necessarily the case. It was a 72-hour prior pre-departure test and from what I know of the time line of this case this individual could well have got their clear test then been infected and then come into New Zealand. So I just want to just add that to the equation so that we don't end up down a wormhole. When it comes to whether or not we asked anyone else to facilitate no we did not ask the New South Wales Government in the middle of managing an outbreak whether or not they would test our people before they departed. However they have always made available testing generally for those in Australia. We did however reach out to Border Force around assistance with the checking of pre-departure tests with other departees who weren't going into managed isolation. Keep in mind of all the people who came home I think we've had in total three or so cases who came out of New South Wales.David Seymour: Is the Prime Minister saying that all those people who have a pre-departure test before boarding a flight to New Zealand from practically every other place in the world are not making a substantial contribution to reducing the chance of COVID getting out from a New Zealand MIQ?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I'm saying that it is not perfect—absolutely not. Because you go and get a test 72 hours before you depart you still have a possibility of being infected in those 72 hours or indeed in your transit to New Zealand. We've seen multiple situations where people have been infected with COVID-19 in often what are very long journeys back to New Zealand. So it is another layer. It is not a perfect layer. We do not rely on it. That is why we test people when they arrive as well and we continue to test them throughout their duration here.David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister regret the Government's decision which led to the person who came to New Zealand and brought Delta not having a pre-departure test just as Auckland enters its fourth week of level 4 lockdown?Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: There is no way anyone in this House—or anyone in New Zealand—would want to be in the place we are with people in lockdown right now of course. But it is overly simplistic to imply that had that one thing been there this wouldn't have happened. I don't think that's fair particularly given what I recall of the time line of when we believe this person became infected. I just don't think it's a fair summation."