Ngaro AlfredHon ALFRED NGARO (National): Thank you Mr Chair. I rise to take a call on this Families Package (Income Tax and Benefits) Bill in support of the amendment from my colleague the Hon Louise Upston in regard to Subpart 1 and the inclusion of an amendment to clause 22 after new section MG 1(1)(d) to insert paragraph (e): for the purposes of this section 'dependent child' includes any adopted child between the ages of 0 to 3 years".I think that's important because I want to add to this—and I'm glad that the Hon Tracey Martin is in the Chamber because she and I did some work in regards to the equity of allowances for kin carers especially in regards to foster carers. So what emerged out of that was that there are a number—and this is a families package but we know there are many different make-ups and sometimes complex situations of those families. So while this clause is really important because it actually wants to include and make clear in the legislation and in this package the inclusion of adopted children I know that the Minister—who's actually just popped out—will know that in fact in those—Hon Iain Lees-Galloway: Point of order.Hon ALFRED NGARO: Apologies for that. I do apologise for that comment. Hon Ruth Dyson: New member!Hon Member: Touchy. Touchy today.Hon ALFRED NGARO: Well I did apologise for the comment. The importance of the point that the Hon Louise Upston has made is just in regards to ensuring that we don't miss in these—they may be small anomalies but they're actually critically important.There are many families that have adopted children. In fact probably members in the House also too have adopted children. So why—and can Minister in the chair Grant Robertson answer this question—would he not want to see this? This is not an amendment that's trying to subvert the whole intent—in fact it's wanting to include in the intent. So to the Minister—and I'm sure he's a good man and I'm sure that he will see that inside of this clause it's important to do that.I want to include in that the important point that there are also other anomalies. So while we talk about the superannuitants that are here and those who will be benefiting from this there are many grandparents raising grandchildren who have adopted children as well and so there will be another complexity. I think it's important that if the officials that are out there can also too ensure that when we've got grandparents raising grandchildren and often they're in the process of where they're actually applying for guardianship orders—will they too when they've got the burden of pressure to be able to meet the demands of raising their children be covered in this?I genuinely want to sort of see that the officials that are out in the backrooms—if they can actually give some assurance give that to the Minister and if the Minister can answer that question because I think that's critically important. I know Di Vivian who's with the Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Trust—I've been and had contact with her many times over. I've actually heard from her at times about the importance of where these grandparents who are often late in their years have now been burdened with the task of raising their grandchildren and have often had to suffer the costs because of that. So I'd like the Minister to ensure that the officials can actually ensure that's there.But again I'd like to reinforce the point that this point here that the Hon Louise Upston is putting forward in Subpart 1—that is very clear. I don't think there's any question that anyone in the committee would object to the fact of including this for the purposes of the section that "dependent children" includes adopted children between the ages of zero and three. But I would just add the other part in regards to grandparents raising grandchildren—superannuitants. It's an anomaly that often doesn't get picked up and doesn't get raised but I know that the work that I did with the Hon Tracey Martin—her and me—in regards to that which was to include that there was equity of allowances. So all I'd ask is that there is an equity of opportunity where they too could apply for this and be eligible in the entitlement so that they could receive that. I'm not sure how that would actually work because they're in the middle of their guardianship orders that they are applying for but I just want to make this plea to the Minister just to check this out and give them some assurance. I know that I will be taking phone calls from Di Vivian and others who are grandparents raising grandchildren and their whānau but I'm sure that this would give them some assurance that this package actually would support them and meet their needs at this point of time as well.So to the Minister I want to thank you for this and for the opportunity to be able to speak on this. I look forward to his response. I also—just in the short time I have—make a request of the Minister in regards to another part where there just seemed to be some incongruence in regards to new section MF 4F where it was described that it just seems to be that younger children were being penalised. If you look in subsection (4) of that it was quite clear that those who were older children seemed to be getting $4822 in their allowances whereas—[Time expired]"