te Heuheu Georgina: Maori Purposes Bill (No 2) — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
te Heuheu Georgina: Maori Purposes Bill (No 2) — Second Reading Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
[Volume:607;Page:4816] 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU (NZ National) 
: 
 I have some comments in relation to clauses 4 and 5. The Minister of course has a Supplementary Order Paper in relation to clause 5. He will seek to insert a new clause 5AD in relation to the appointment of a temporary presiding officer. In anticipation of that and in relation to two issues raised by previous speakers I might have said in my second reading speech—but in case I did not the thought was there—that the changes proposed to the Treaty of Waitangi Act of 1975 contained in clause 4 the validation clause and clause 5 are serious changes. I guess it is only proper that some comments might have been made that flag concerns with those clauses. I am on the Maori Affairs Committee and we were pleased to see that the officials had sought a considerable amount of advice in relation to clauses 4 and 5. The committee gave serious scrutiny to those clauses too. Because the Waitangi Tribunal is under scrutiny all the time we were very much aware that potshots could be taken and so wanted the changes we were going to support to be proper. 
In relation to clause 4 the ACT member raised an issue about the length of time the Wellington Tenths Trust inquiry is taking. It is proper to raise that issue but it is also proper to understand that the change being sought modifies the rules of natural justice only in relation to membership of a tribunal. No other existing right for anybody who might wish to challenge the findings of the tribunal is influenced or changed and I think it is proper that we make that point. 
A question was raised in relation to clause 5. I have a very personal stake in these matters as I was a member of the Waitangi Tribunal and that is why I make these points now. Again the ACT member Rodney Hide raised the issue of personal circumstances. What are those? Is it that a chairman can just throw somebody off the tribunal? It is not that simple. It is related to the rest of the clause which basically says “by reason of his or her physical or mental condition”. 
Rodney Hide 
: Where does it say that? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: Rodney Hide should look at the clause. I forgot to point it out to him but a chairperson cannot just chuck someone off the tribunal. We on the committee were very mindful that if someone is to be replaced—either a presiding officer or a member—the conditions under which that can occur should be very strict otherwise the power to do that will not emanate. I might have got Mr Hide’s arguments slightly wrong and I hope he will bear with me if I did but the point is worth making that somebody cannot be chucked off the tribunal for reasons of personal circumstances relating to anything in the world. There has to be a clear connection to a person being unable to carry on by reason of his or her physical or mental condition. 
Rodney Hide 
: But paragraph (c) can stand on its own can’t it? 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: The Minister might do that. Clause 5AC2 sets out three conditions one of which is that of personal circumstances related to physical or mental incapacity— 
Rodney Hide 
: It does not say that in paragraph (c). 
Hon GEORGINA TE HEUHEU 
: Yes it does. There is no carte blanche power to throw somebody off the tribunal because of personal circumstances that are not defined. But if the member wishes to disagree that is fine.