Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:641;Page:10989] 
7.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Did the Ministry of Health or anyone else express any caution to the then Minister of Health the Hon Annette King on the appropriateness of her appointing Mr Hausmann to the Hawke’s Bay District Health Board at a time when his company intended to put in a bid for a multimillion-dollar contract with that same board; if so who? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 No the then Minister of Health the Hon Annette King did not receive any such advice. I am told her office did receive advice from the chair of the board Kevin Atkinson that he would prefer a person from the Hawke’s Bay and subsequent to the appointment the chair was quoted in the local paper  
Hawke’s Bay Today 
 as saying that he was certain Mr Hausmann’s expertise in the health sector would be valuable to the board. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Did any staff member of the Ministry of Health receive any expressions of concern about the appropriateness of appointing to the board a man who says his company intends to bid for multimillion-dollar contracts to be let by that board? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The member overlooks that almost certainly Mr Hausmann already had contracts with that board. I think Mr Hausmann’s company has contracts with most district health boards and as I recall his conflict of interest declaration in it he speaks of both existing and prospective contracts. So the issue is not as is always the case whether a conflict exists. Most boards have district health board members who have conflicts and in some cases they are the majority of the board. The issue is how those conflicts are managed and the long and short of it is that Mr Hausmann’s conflict of interest statement was full from the beginning. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why will the Minister not answer the question: did anyone in the Ministry of Health receive any expressions of concern about the appropriateness of appointing a man whose company intends to bid for multimillion-dollar contracts to the board of that district health board during consideration of that very process? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I am trying to tell the member that the issue of conflicts of interest was well known to the Ministry of Health because everyone had been told about it by Mr Hausmann. That I think is really the essential point. He was straightforwardly saying he could well be interested in a tender if one went forward. The chair knew that the Ministry of Health knew that the Minister knew that and Cabinet knew that. Everyone knew it. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: So it was a cover-up? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: It was not a cover-up; no it was an “open-up”. And I tell the guy who cannot stop interjecting that the reason we are having an inquiry is that Mr Hausmann wrote to me asking whether we could please do so once more. He has already been looked into but because people keep on coming up and saying untrue things about him he asked whether we could please have another inquiry. I said that yes we could. 
Sue Moroney 
: What was the extent of the knowledge of the potential conflict of interest arising from this appointment? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: It was considerable and the main source of knowledge about Mr Hausmann’s conflict of interest came from Mr Hausmann. Mr Hausmann said on 18 May in a written conflict of interest statement which has been made public more than once long long ago that he had a conflict of interest. He was thinking that he might get himself some more conflicts of interest. He said how he might manage his conflicts of interest and how he might confer with his chair should he be appointed in managing his conflicts of interest. All I can say is that the Tories’ mate Dr Bierre from the Auckland District Health Board did none of that and a multimillion-dollar contract came tumbling down taking Dr Bierre with it. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Can the Minister explain why Mr Hausmann when Annette King appointed him in 2005 did not declare an interest in Wellcare Education Ltd which was subsequently awarded an untendered $1.1 million contract with the district health board; and how does the Minister justify his advice to Parliament that Mr Hausmann made a full declaration when Companies Office records will show that Mr Hausmann’s interest was not appropriately declared to the Ministry of Health? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: That contract was primarily and first and foremost not with the district health board; it was with the Ministry of Social Development. Therefore there was not a conflict. However it is also the case that the Ministry of Social Development thinks that that contract was extremely well done and has rolled it out in other parts of the country but not involving Mr Hausmann’s company all the time as I understand it. And it is also possible that Mr Hausmann when he put together his contract with the Ministry of Social Development made it clear that he was a board member of the district health board. It would seem to me likely that he did that because everyone else knew that he was a member of Hawke’s Bay’s District Health Board. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why did the Minister say that Mr Hausmann made a full disclosure when it is clear that Mr Hausmann’s interests in Wellcare Education Ltd were never disclosed when his appointment was made in 2005; and does the Minister think that this might be covered in the investigation by the Auditor-General that has begun in Hawke’s Bay today? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The investigation that has been begun by the Auditor-General is as the member may know a preliminary investigation so that the Auditor-General can come to a view about whether a full investigation is a good idea. He will take a preliminary look come to a view in 6 or 8 weeks and tell us all. So that is good. We have an investigation already under way the terms of reference for which are broad and include things like “any other matters”. If there is anything to uncover that has not been uncovered in relation to this Hawke’s Bay District Health Board issue then we have three people who are pretty smart at uncovering such things. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Will the Ministry of Health investigations include an investigation into allegations that the Hawke’s Bay whistleblower was bullied and subsequently pushed out of her job in an attempt to silence her; if not why not? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I am not sure which part of “any other matters” the member does not get because— 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Yes or no? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: He wants to know whether it is a yes or a no? You see it includes everything; therefore nothing is excluded. Everything can be included and the member can draw his own conclusions as to whether that is a yes or a no answer.