Lole-Taylor Asenati: Social Security (Fraud Measures and Debt Recovery) Amendment Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLole-Taylor Asenati: Social Security (Fraud Measures and Debt Recovery) Amendment Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 08 April 2014. Volume:697;Page:16951. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Le’aufa’amulia ASENATI LOLE-TAYLOR (NZ First):I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Social Security (Fraud Measures and Debt Recovery) Amendment Bill in the Committee stage. It would be fair to say that the days when people used to say: “Trust us. We know what we’re doing.” have long gone. It is very hard to support anyone who comes up with the same phrase or a similar statement given the fact that it could create difficult situations for others. It is not always so for the same person who actually said it but it is always so for others especially when it comes to benefits. This part of the bill Part 1 focuses on the essence of fraud when that occurs and the other part that is also important. At the same time the bill caters for efforts towards recovering debts. New Zealand First believes that those knowingly and purposely taking advantage of the welfare system should be held accountable for their actions and they should be made to actually show that they are accountable to the taxpayers of this country. At the same time we believe it is important to ensure that we understand the possible circumstances people may be in when they contemplate fraudulent behaviour.Some of the reasons may include No. 1 sudden redundancy or the inability to secure employment. We all know that there are not enough jobs out there at the moment. Let us be clear also that there are not enough jobs because National has not invested enough effort to create jobs for the wider population of New Zealand. No. 2 is changes to family circumstances and that means in the areas of death or relationship breakdowns. Death is something that is uncontrollable but a relationship breakdown is often a result of both parties being unable to agree on a number of areas. Although some might carry on to become good parents or good people others will respond violently. It will often lead to domestic or family violence. No. 3 is unstable relationships where either mum or dad would not like to move in and there is a sense of insecurity for both partners both parties. This is where both parents do not want to be tied to one particular person’s perspective. Most of the time one of the parents is either a gang member or a drug dealer. There are also situations where the mother could be involved with other kinds of job options like prostitution.No. 4 is that huge debt poor financial literacy and a lack of budget management skills or management experience can also be major contributing factors. There is quite a large number of people in this category. These people may have become parents early in their lives or did not necessarily finish their education in order to be able to secure better jobs and therefore they will often find themselves unable to translate or interpret various kinds of legislation especially when it comes to budgeting and spending benefits from the social welfare department. No. 5 is that in some cases serious alcohol and drug abuse or addiction could also be contributing factors. On the other hand there may be mental illness involved. Those are circumstances that are very hard to judge. Legal highs can definitely send someone’s mind completely mad regardless of what the legislators may say.It is important to point out again that relationships are never simple or straightforward particularly for people in broken homes. I heard the Associate Minister for Social Developmen Chester Borrows talk earlier tonight about relationship breakdowns and in particular how the woman in a violent relationship is not liable for the man’s fraud. I want to challenge the Minister in this instance. Often we talk about the situation being that the man is always the violent partner when in some cases women could be the violent partners in a relationship and therefore the father could end up being the victim in any situation. There is that ongoing perception. We need to actually look at shutting down or getting rid of the barrier that is allowing us to think that women are always supposed to be the victims and men are supposed to be the violent partners. The bill must be sensitive to these situations. The changes must be seen to be supportive of either the man or the woman—depending on who it is—who may be in a violent relationship and enable them to make the right decision. In the first reading the Hon Chester Borrows gave an assurance that those in violent relationships will be given fair and serious consideration and that is really good to hear.The Social Services Committee’s report if I can say so stated in terms of amendment to the debt recovery provision that: “We believe that this would ensure that the amendment did not undermine the general public law principle that decision-makers must take all relevant considerations into account.” This is a part of the actual select committee report that we thought was quite useful for us to accept. It goes on: “It would also alleviate any concerns about the legislation breaching New Zealand’s international human rights obligations by ensuring that matters pertaining to such rights could be taken into account where necessary.” I have discussed this bill with a number of our community leaders and a number of our local residents. As you would know a large number of our people in my area Manukau East and South Auckland and also some in Porirua could be in this category and could be affected by this legislation.Welfare fraud is something New Zealand First does not take lightly. In fact it is completely intolerable. Welfare fraud is a crime often committed by people for their own benefit at the expense of taxpayers but the vast majority of beneficiaries are honest people who do the right thing. New Zealand First is mindful that this is not such a clear-cut issue. Despite the bill’s best intentions it still poses huge risks to people in genuine need of welfare assistance. The bill must be accurately targeted towards those who are abusing the system and this is where we have to be careful that we are not pulling up the people who are trying to survive in this current environment where the cost of living is so high and they could be bullied into getting funds from Work and Income when they are not supposed to. It is absolutely vital that New Zealand welfare reaches the people who actually need it rather than those dishonest people who would continue to take what they are not entitled to.I believe that the bill will go a long way towards assisting those who are in real need of support. It is also important that we acknowledge that the savings that reached $109 million in 2012-13 were welcome but there is also $120 million that is still owing to the Ministry of Social Development. Is that going to be taken on board? Are we going to give that some consideration? However we must be mindful that two-thirds of welfare fraud is not relationship fraud. In fact a lot of money is lost in administrative blunders. That comes down to staff and the way they manage their responsibilities in the actual Work and Income offices.If the Government persists in taking this hard-line approach to sorting out our welfare system then it must indeed ensure that there are enough jobs and so on to actually allow beneficiaries to find a way out of the quagmire that is welfare dependency.We must also acknowledge the idea that most New Zealanders would not cheat the system if they felt like they did not need to. Most of them are actually honest if they are in a situation where they do need assistance from the Government. The deeper social problems that rely on the welfare system and rely on welfare fraud ought to be recognised. Sadly there are no jobs and many families are struggling to save the 20 percent deposit for a house at the moment so it is up to us to ensure that our people actually get support.