McClay ToddHon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua): Thank you very much. Minister what you just said is we need legislation because there are people in banks acting fraudulently. Fraud is already against the law. You can't make it more against the law. It's already against the law. So in the case you gave that I think wasn't in New Zealand but was in Australia where one person signed hundreds of loan applications fraudulently in New Zealand they would be found they would be caught and they would go to jail. Fraud is already against the law. So what you're actually saying is using examples of other countries that have legislation that we don't have here to catch fraudulent behaviour; fraud is against the law in New Zealand. Minister you also said that the problem is the regulators are not able to do their jobs properly. Then fix the regulators. Don't bring more legislation to paper over something that the Minister says is not working because with every single piece of legislation this Minister brings to the House there is a cost. And we've seen the significance and effect of the cost with the last bit of legislation where he said at the time They have it in Australia. We don't have it here and all these poor consumers are being ripped off everywhere and there are nasty people out there giving them loans and so on." Actually Minister as a result of that last piece of legislation that is still happening for those who are already acting illegally. You can't make something that's wrong or illegal more illegal. But all that the Minister has done through rushing that legislation through the House last year and giving guarantees to everybody they would be better is that those that should be able to afford a house and get a loan for it are now not able to.Minister you mentioned in one of your examples that $1.4 million may not be a lot of money for the National Party. It's quite a significant amount of money no question there—with the exception perhaps of contracts issued by the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment to Nanaia Mahuta's husband. It is a lot of money but the point of this however is that actually once again this Minister is bringing forward legislation that says "Trust the Government. It actually is to do the right thing." And based on the last piece of legislation put through this House by this Minister when he said the same thing there are New Zealanders today who cannot get loans to buy homes who would have been able to before the legislation and they weren't in danger of being ripped off or taken advantage of. Minister can you give this House an iron-clad absolute guarantee that actually this legislation will do only what you're saying it will do and that there won't be any additional cost imposed upon these institutions—because as the Minister says the regulators can't do their job—and that that cost won't be passed on to the consumer.Dr Duncan Webb: I raise a point of order Mr Chair. The member made some statements about family members of members of this House which is—CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): No that's not a point of order. I heard it very clearly and I think it was a legitimate use of the House's time and the member is perfectly entitled to do whatever they see fit."