Penk ChrisCHRIS PENK (National—Helensville): Thank you Madam Chair. My contribution in this instance will be I think reasonably narrow. I've got a couple of quite particular questions that I would seek the Minister in the chair Andrew Little to respond to in a way that's very helpful in a committee of the whole House stage; it's a good forum for being able to get clarification on points in which one is genuinely uncertain. I know that there will be a lot of interest—if not now in my particular delivery of the question then in the answer—because it will have an effect I suspect on some intentions and plans and the execution thereof next year in relation to at least a couple of referenda that we will have—and as my colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith points out it's at least theoretically possible that there could be more.My specific question is in relation to clause 40 within Part 3 Meaning of referendum expenses". I actually don't want to ask a question about what the phrase "referendum expenses" means so much as: from what point do we consider such expenses are incurred? Foreshadowing what may be the answer—I genuinely don't know; I approach this task with some humility—I genuinely seek clarification on this. In clause 42 we have the meaning of "regulated period" so it might be that the answer to my question is that expenses are occurred within the regulated period and those are counted as such but otherwise in relation to the two referenda that we know will be likely at the 2020 election there are some possibilities as well.In the case of the referendum on liberalising—whether decriminalising or legalising—drug use it's possible that under the dictates of this Act governing the conduct of referendum the referendum would apply from the time that this Act passes in Parliament at its third reading or perhaps the Royal assent. We're only talking about one day's difference so we'll gloss over that; let's just say "the passing of the Act." Or it could be that they apply from the time that the Government advises in some official manner exactly what the question will be. Another alternative would be that the election year—and by that I suppose I mean calendar year 2020 as opposed to 12 months prior to the election; it could be writ day I suppose that has some significance in electoral law terms. But I suspect that the most likely answer is that the "regulated period" in clause 42 would be the time that various provisions apply particularly in relation to when referendum expenses begin to be incurred or accrue. In relation to the End of Life Choice Bill different options would apply given that that's taking a slightly different path. In that case it could be I suppose the third reading day the Royal assent or again potentially the passage of this bill because I suppose it wouldn't be right; it would be a matter of retrospective lawmaking if we were to say that the conduct leading up to the referendum on the End of Life Choice Act would be governed by the provisions of this legislation before such time as it's passed. So that's one quite specific question on which I would be very grateful for an answer from the Minister. Then second within this five-minute call if I may is just to dig a little bit into the meaning of "publish"—that's in the title of clause 41. I note there is a very long list and quite a broad range of different kinds of acts that constitute publication. The Minister will recall from his study of the legal method statutory interpretation 101 that having a list of different activities—in this case activities—implies that other similar things that are like that may also be included. Of course the list doesn't purport to be exhaustive; it includes those various things and all we have specifically excluded is the addressing of one or more persons face to face. So I have a couple of sort of questions in relation to this particular provision. One is whether it would not simply be easier to say something like "by any means whatsoever" replacing all of paragraph (a) and that long list from Roman numerals (i) to (xi) inclusive with simply a very broad statement of "any means whatsoever" meaning we don't need to talk about sending by post or otherwise disseminating by means of the internet or other electronic medium and so forth. It seems to me that we could structure that provision much more neatly simply by saying that the publication in reference to a referendum advertisement includes any means whatsoever other than or excluding by addressing one or more persons face to face. If the Minister can explain the rationale for having that face-to-face exclusion as different from the other means that would be helpful too."