Brown Peter: Railways Bill — First Reading 
Brown Peter: Railways Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:610;Page:7415] 
PETER BROWN (Deputy Leader—NZ First) 
: 
 I listened with interest to the contribution made by Paul Adams. I have to ask whether we heard about another background backyard deal between United Future and the Labour Government. United Future does not even have a member on the select committee yet the member said that he was very happy with everything. The United Future members sit in closed rooms and discuss what a bill will be what it will do and the intention of it. That is not democracy. It is an abuse of the system to come to the House and say that the bill is all hunky-dory when nobody has had any input in it whatsoever and United Future has not even made an attempt to have a member on the select committee. The member is very misguided in saying that. 
I accept that Paul Adams’ concern about the British rail system was genuine. However the British have really addressed the issue over there. They have really gone into their system and played hardball. They have a company called Network Rail that the British Government has taken over without any doh ray me or waffling along like this Labour Government did here when it talked one day about doing a deal with Tranz Rail and the next week about doing it with Toll Holdings. 
Paul Adams 
: Will the member support this bill? 
PETER BROWN 
: We will support this bill but for genuine reasons. The United Future members are so misguided that they need our expertise to straighten the thing out. We will support this bill. We will sit on the select committee unlike that member. United Future will not have anybody on the select committee. It has already done a deal with the Government and the member thinks that it is all OK. He is quite happy with the fines and the penalties that have been imposed in this bill although we have some major concerns with regard to them. I can now see where the Government’s woolly thinking came from. With due respect to Mr Adams I can now see why the Government is so woolly on transport issues. The Government does not have a clear idea in its head about what needs to happen. 
Fundamentally if we want to develop rail then we have to have the track in Government ownership. Dr Cullen refused to do that at one time but now he is talking of doing it. First of all he talked about a deal with Tranz Rail whereby it was to have monopoly rights of operation and then 2 weeks later he wanted to do the same deal with Toll Holdings. In essence what needs to be achieved is to have a rail track company with competitive operators providing the services. Mr Adams alluded to that but he could not have said anything to the Government about it because there is nothing in the bill that outlines that sort of theory. Mr Adams alluded to the fact that competitive services on our rail track system would make an improvement yet there is nothing in this bill that will encourage anybody to move one single log from the roads on to rail—nothing. I have searched the bill looking for some sort of incentive to do that and have found there is absolutely nothing here that will do that. However the bill does go to one of the core issues by trying to address the safety concerns that we have with Tranz Rail. 
About 10 years ago a political party was formed in this country. 
Hon Paul Swain 
: What was the name? 
PETER BROWN 
: That political party was called New Zealand First. One of the reasons for forming that party was our concern about the State asset sales; that was a fundamental reason for forming the party. There is no greater example than Tranz Rail of why we were concerned about State asset sales. I have heard people criticise the Hon Richard Prebble over the issue of the railways. However in fair dos to the man he sorted out New Zealand Rail and made it efficient for 1 year and he made it available to— 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: Oh! 
PETER BROWN 
: The member indicates that he would not have sold New Zealand Rail. I can recall that member sitting very comfortably in his seat when Labour was in power between 1984 and 1990 selling all sorts of assets. 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: Was the member in England then? 
PETER BROWN 
: I was here. I know that the member made a little bit of a ruckus on the side but basically when push came to shove he was part of that Government between 1984 and 1990 when $11 billion worth of State-owned assets were sold to private people. 
We are concerned about the level of fines and penalties provided for in this bill. We are not comfortable with the level that is to be imposed here. 
Hon Paul Swain 
: Too high or too low? 
PETER BROWN 
: The penalties may well be too high. 
Paul Adams 
: Well said Paul! 
PETER BROWN 
: Does the member disagree with me? When one imposes penalties they have to be realistic and fair. In this bill they seem to be fairly on the high side to put it mildly. We do not agree with people offending or agree with the failures that are addressed in this bill but we believe that the penalty should reflect the crime. To go back to the example of Britain which Paul Adams referred to I tell members that that country is actually holding the directors of Network Rail to account for manslaughter in relation to one of the big rail crashes that occurred there. In my personal opinion we should look at a lower fine level for modest offences but if we get into the serious stuff then the penalties should be very severe. I am not sure whether this bill reflects that sort of philosophy; in fact I am certain that it does not. It seems to whack a heavy fine on to somebody for what could be a very modest offence. 
We would be interested to know when the Tranz Rail track will become the responsibility of Track Co. The Hon Roger Sowry said that Tranz Rail went cap in hand to the ministry some time ago—and I think the Minister concurred—saying that it would go belly up within a few days or weeks. But Tranz Rail is still continuing. 
Hon Paul Swain 
: It’s got $40 million; that kind of helps. 
PETER BROWN 
: That keeps Tranz Rail ticking over but when can we have a resolution to this problem? 
Hon Paul Swain 
: When the shareholders vote. 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: It’s still a democracy. 
PETER BROWN 
: I am glad to know that. It will be a step in the right direction to get the railway structured correctly and to apply this legislation in order to get the track company running properly taking appropriate safety measures and bringing the whole system up to standard. 
I believe the money that the Government proposes to invest in the track company will not be sufficient in the longer term. I think it is $20 million a year for the next 5 years. That is not enough and the Minister knows it. The amount should be at least double that for the first few years and probably for as long as 10 years. The reports that I have had about the condition of the track cause some concern. 
We will support this bill being referred to the select committee. We will listen to the submissions and we will endeavour to give the Government our best advice on how to get the rail track company up and formed so that rail freight can take cargo from the roads through competition thereby removing congestion and making the roads a safer place to operate on. New Zealand First supports this bill going to the select committee.