Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:653;Page:2375] 
4. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
 to the  
Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee 
: When he agreed with the Minister for ACC that the Minister appear before the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee for the financial review of ACC on 12 March did he do so on the basis that he understood that John Judge was the chair of the ACC board and that the Minister was replacing him? 
DAVID BENNETT (Chairperson of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee): 
 I was aware that the board was in a state of being reconfigured and it would have been presumed in the public arena at that time that Mr Judge was the chairman. But it was agreed that the Minister would attend that meeting and that does not necessarily mean that the Minister was replacing Mr Judge. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Did Dr Nick Smith inform him before the meeting of 12 March that because of an error on Dr Smith’s part Mr Wilson was the chair of the Accident Compensation Corporation board at the time of the meeting? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The member’s assertion is quite incorrect. It is contrary to Crown Law opinion— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I apologise for interrupting the honourable member but that is not a point of order. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think it is important that you know when a member’s question makes an assertion of fact that is incorrect. A member cannot ask a question of another member when something is— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: It’s a debating point. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: No it is not debatable. It is a matter of record. I made the announcement on the Monday and the assertion made by the member is incorrect. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: This is actually very important. We were told by the chief executive at an open session of the committee today that— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will resume his seat. See how we get into difficulty? These are not points of order; they have nothing to do with the order of this House. The point the Hon Dr Nick Smith made has some validity in that outrageous assertions should not be made in questions. The question for me as Speaker to judge in deciding whether to rule something out is whether an outrageous assertion was made. In this case I think it is quite within the competence of the member answering. It did not seem to me that the question was unduly compromising or outrageous. But I accept the basis of the point of order that the Hon Dr Nick Smith was making. I invite the Hon Trevor Mallard to be careful when asking his question not to make assertions that are unfair. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Did Dr Smith inform the member before the meeting of 12 March that Mr Wilson was the chairman at the time of the meeting? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to make a personal explanation in respect of the assertion that has been made by the member asking the question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know that leave has been sought. This is a ministerial matter not a personal matter. The member is using the wrong Standing Order. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave has been sought by a member of the House to make a personal explanation. All members of the House have the right to seek leave to make a personal explanation. Is there any objection? 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is not clear. Is he seeking to make a personal explanation on the matter that Mr Wilson was not the chair? One could not possibly make a personal explanation on that matter. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I cannot prejudge what a member might be seeking leave to make a personal explanation on. A member could seek leave to make a personal explanation where his or her word is being questioned or doubted. If the word of a member of this House is being brought into question I believe that he or she does have the right to seek leave to make a personal explanation. I now put that request for leave to make a personal explanation. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
We come back to the supplementary question that was asked by the member. I fear that now members will have lost track of it so the member had better ask it again. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Did Dr Smith inform the member before the meeting of 12 March that Mr Wilson was in fact the chairman at the time of the meeting as the committee was told this morning by— 
DAVID BENNETT 
: It was agreed that Dr Smith would attend the meeting. I think the Labour Party members will have got a lot of value out of his attendance at that meeting. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Supplementary question— 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt my colleague during his question. The point of order I am raising is that Mr Quinn who sits at the back of the Chamber has briefly moved to the ministerial seats in order to interject on my colleague. It is hard to hear what is going on. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am not sure the member is actually assisting his colleague. I have just given his colleague a further supplementary question which is most unusual for a Speaker to do. I invite the member to take a deep breath while the Hon Trevor Mallard asks his supplementary question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Did Dr Smith inform the member before the meeting of 12 March that Mr Wilson was in fact the chairman at the time of that meeting as the chief executive told the committee this morning? 
DAVID BENNETT 
: In the public arena at that time Mr Judge would have been expected to be the chairman as has been noted. The Minister agreed to come to that meeting and he attended it. The transcript of today’s meeting will provide further details on the member’s question I am sure.