1. Freshwater Management—Clean Water Package Public Submissions and Nitrogen LeachingMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister for the EnvironmentORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSFreshwater Management—Clean Water Package Public Submissions and Nitrogen Leaching1. METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister for the Environment: Ki Te Minita mō Te Taiao: Ka tukua e ngā paerewa e whakaarohia akehia nei mō te pai ake o te wai i roto i te pūhera Wai Mā te kaha kē atu te iti kē iho rānei o te uru atu o te tūkinotanga ki roto i ō tātou awa wai e ngā mea whakakapi?[Do the proposed standards for water quality in the Clean Water package allow more pollution or less to enter our waterways than the ones they will replace?]Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment): Less. The previous 2014 national policy statement sets a long-term goal of waterways being wadeable and annual median of less than 1000 E. coli per 100 millilitres and no specific timetable for achieving that. The new proposed standard requires 90 percent of rivers and lakes to be swimmable with an annual median of less than 130 and sets a specific timetable of the year 2040. The Clean Water package will require that 1000 kilometres of waterways per year be moved to a higher swimming standard each year to 2040. I am advised by regional councils that it will be challenging to achieve this rate of reduction in pollution but the Government is determined it should be achieved.Metiria Turei: When will the Minister publish the evidence that supports his claim that the Clean Water package standards will allow less pollution into our waterways?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The Clean Water package makes a plan in dropping the wadeability standard that provided for 1000 E. coli per 100 millilitres to a swimmable standard that requires an annual median of 130 E. coli per 100 millilitres. There has been some further debate about the statistical measures and a further report is being produced by Mr Graham McBride from the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA). He has unfortunately been unwell and so there has been a delay in some of the further technical analysis around those statistical tests.Metiria Turei: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was very clear: when will he publish the evidence that supports his claim? He made no statement at all as to the timing of that publication.Mr SPEAKER: I do not agree with the member. The Minister then went on and explained that there was some further work being done and that the publication of it had been delayed because a man was unwell. Paul Foster-Bell: Tēnā koe e Te Māngai o Te Whare. How do the proposed three categories of swimmable rivers in the Clean Water package compare with the European and the United States categories?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The proposed New Zealand system uses the terms excellent" "good" and "fair"; the European system "excellent" "good" and "sufficient". The statistical tests on E. coli levels are near identical but the New Zealand proposed system is more cautious as it requires more samples. It also requires a median of less than 130 E. coli. And also the European system allows up to 15 percent of samples with elevated risk to be discarded. I am also advised that while the American system uses different measures the risk profile is very similar to those under the grading system proposed for New Zealand.Metiria Turei: Given the Minister is going to give the scientific community more time to submit on the standards will he reopen submissions for the public once his evidence has been provided to them?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: If the further evidence and report by NIWA materially changes the proposals then yes I would be happy to reopen for submissions. In respect of the freshwater quality scientists they asked for a very specific analysis to be done. As I said the scientist who had promised to do that work became unwell and so I thought it was only fair that we allowed additional time for those water quality scientists who had specifically sought that information prior to their submissions being made.Metiria Turei: How will the new standards address the findings of the recent Ministry for the Environment report that shows that an increase in nitrogen leaching from farms is a problem that cannot be fixed unless we reduce the number of animals on those farms?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: In three ways: firstly for the very first time the Government is proposing to nationally regulate the fencing of stock out of waterways from both rivers and from lakes and that is important. Secondly for the very first time we are setting a nationally consistent measure and requiring it to be reported against. And thirdly the proposed changes to the national policy statement tighten up the legal requirement on regional councils to reduce and limit the amount of nitrogen getting into our waterways.Metiria Turei: The Minister does understand does he not that fencing will not stop the leaching of nitrogen into the waterways?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The fencing of waterways actually provides multiple benefits. It certainly will reduce the amount of E. coli getting into our waterways. It will also reduce the amount of sediment that carries nutrients like phosphorous and it is also true that a major source of nitrates for our waterways is from animal urine and animals not directly effectively peeing in our rivers and lakes will also help. However the major constraint on nitrates is the fact that there are now 18 catchments across New Zealand where there are legally binding limits on nitrates; when we came to Government there were none.Metiria Turei: Given that the Ministry for the Environment says that an increase in dairy farming means an increase in nitrogen which means more pollution in our waterways why will he not support a moratorium on new dairy farms to stop that pollution?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: In those 18 catchments where councils have put a limit on nitrates that does mean that there are farmers in parts of Southland in Taupō and in the Waikato where there cannot be dairy intensification. Where the Government disagrees with the Greens is that to blatantly apply a moratorium over all of New Zealand including in areas where nitrates are not an issue would in our view be a cost to those regional economies for no environmentally sound reason.Metiria Turei: How can the public possibly trust him to do a good job of cleaning up our waterways when he has done such a terrible job of dealing with the housing crisis?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I am happy to stand by my record that in my time as a Minister of housing we have more than doubled the number of houses being built in New Zealand and in respect of fresh water I would simply make a challenge to the member to find a Government in the history of New Zealand that has made as many steps around improving New Zealand's fresh water."