Pugh Maureen; Webb DuncanClause 5 Schedule 1AA amendedCHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): Members we now come to our final debate on clause 5. Clause 5 this is the debate on clause 5 amendment to Schedule 1AA of the principal Act including the Schedule. The question is that clause 5 stand part.Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): This may be largely mechanical in many ways because what it appears to do is make sure that the rush that everyone's going to have in the next 14 days to get their legal aid applications in for these reports is managed in accordance with the rules and that the commissioner essentially doesn't turn down applications which were made in good faith not knowing that this was in place.As we come to the final breaths of this part of the debate I do want to say that it's disappointing that we didn't really get a chance to talk about all of the different submissions that would have been made. Certainly today I have received messages from the disabled community including the neurodiverse community for whom these reports are very important. And it may well be that there will be cases where people who have disabilities including what are in essence invisible disabilities will now be making applications and trying to squeeze them in to this small 14-day window to make sure that their providers can in fact get paid for the work that they're going to do.Whilst we talked about commencement in fact it may well be that we need a little more flexibility in this new Part 3 which is inserted into Schedule 1AA because there is going to be a considerable bottleneck of work for the commissioner—or what in fact if you know how the organisation works there's grants officers that will in fact be doing this work under delegated authority.So even though the clause applies simply before commencement it may well be and I wonder if the Minister would consider this that a little more discretion is needed because there may be people—and I'm looking at Willow-Jean Prime who obviously is from Northland where there are some more remote communities who perhaps the news doesn't travel quite so fast where there might be a sole practitioner in some of these smaller towns. Of course we all know what it's like to miss an email and they may be merrily commissioning these reports or making arrangements for it and it would be appropriate in those kinds of situations for the Legal Services Commissioner to say Well look in all of the circumstances it doesn't quite perhaps meet the exceptional threshold but it's a reasonable excuse for not quite appreciating that." Because this is not the centrepiece of legal aid—this is off to one side. Despite the Minister's protestations this isn't kind of the main grist to the mill for a legal aid lawyer. And missing an email from the Legal Services Agency with an update on these reports is quite easily missed.So there's a really good argument that in fact what we need in new Part 3 of the Schedule is to say "The commissioner can appropriately consider an application as if this wasn't passed where the conduct of the practitioner has been reasonable in all the circumstances." Or perhaps where the oversight or the commissioning of this report is excusable in the circumstances. It might be that you want a higher threshold—I'd suggest against it. Exceptional circumstances is always a kind of tricky phrase. A kind of negligent but not outrageous omission would strike me as something which would be perfectly reasonable.But as I've said I'm disappointed that we haven't had a chance to go over some of the other people who have come to me and said "I'd like my voice heard on this bill." I do want to again mention the disabled community and the fact that the neurodiverse community often find themselves in the court. And we know that neurodiverse people are overrepresented in our prisons and these reports are really important.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): Dr Webb this is simply about transition.Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Yes well these people also will be affected by the transition.CHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger): I accept that but please keep your message regarding them to the transition itself.Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB: Well thank you for your guidance Madam Chair but given that this has been rushed through the House without select committee process I'm simply trying to make sure that my constituents and the constituents of all New Zealand's voices are heard both in respect of this new Part 3 which is important but the transition is relevant and I suggest that a greater discretion is needed in respect of it. Thank you Madam Chair."