Cullen Michael: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
Cullen Michael: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
[Volume:640;Page:10394] 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 I just want to touch on one simple point for the benefit of the member: I have just done a little count here. I have been elected five times as the deputy leader of the Labour Party. I have been unopposed on every occasion. The member who has just been speaking briefly flew through the stratosphere as leader of the National Party and was dumped humiliatingly— 
Darren Hughes 
: By a pensioner! 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: That is right; by a pensioner—by a recycled Reserve Bank governor who somehow stumbled in here and never knew what he was doing when he got into the place. Then Mr English thought he would have another go and we learnt all about that in  
North and South.  
After Mr English read about what he was supposed to do he said that if he had really worked away at it worked away at it for 2 or 3 weeks he could have been leader again but he decided that no he would grind away in the background. Mr English decided that while John Key bounced from cloud to cloud he would therefore effectively run the policy. Well that is the National Party. Mr English goes to National’s caucus every day singing under his breath “Hey! You! Get off of my cloud.” to John Key. That is what he sings because he is the man who should be on that cloud as far as he is concerned and whenever there is a drop in the polls the knife will be out again. 
But let us take fiscal policy. What is the massive conversion that has gone on in the National Party? I have stood here year after year being told that I was running obscenely large surpluses that there was room for a massive fiscal loosening and that if only I would loosen fiscal policy we could have everything we want in this country—absolutely everything all the way through. That is what John Key is still saying as he bounces from cloud to cloud. But down there grinding away underneath is Bill English. Bill English says to John Key that he is sorry but if he wants to have tax cuts—and not big ones just little ones because Mr English has said there is no room for substantial tax cuts now—National will have to cut back the growth of spending. Mr English says National will have to cut back spending in the areas that matter. 
Of course what Mr English does not want to do is to tell us where those cuts would be. He hates me saying that because it is true. When Mr English was last in the finance ministry he cut New Zealand superannuation and that followed a decision to cut taxes. National could not afford to cut taxes so it cut superannuation to pay for it. That is exactly what National did. It lowered the relativity of superannuation from 65 percent of the average wage for a married couple to 60 percent. It wanted to go to 55 percent— 
Hon Bill English 
: That’s silly. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: That is in the documentation; National wanted to go to 55 percent. So when Bill English said last week musing away grinding away and suddenly popping out on a cloud somewhere by mistake that retirement income provision in New Zealand is now too generous he was not alarmed when bells went off. That happened when everybody suddenly said: “There they go again.” The National members have been in Opposition for 7½ years getting on for 8 years and still they have not learnt. But given a chance they will hatchet into those core areas of State sector provision within New Zealand. 
Hon Bill English 
: Don’t be silly. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: It was silly. It was very very silly indeed because it gave me a golden opportunity to say: “Aha here’s where the cuts would come from.” 
Hon Bill English 
: That’s silly. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Oh it is not silly. I just remind members that National was in power for 9 years and that for 3 of those years it cut New Zealand superannuation. It froze it for 2 years which was a cut because there was no increase and then in its last year in Government it cut the relativity. That was silly but National did it and the National members would do it again given half a chance. 
But John Key says people should not worry because as long as we borrow some more money they can have everything they want. National would not even have to borrow because Jacqui Dean has the answer: “We don’t need to borrow.” she said at the last election “We’ll get the money from overseas.” That is how National would pay for its promises. National is promising everybody anything. Has anybody here heard any National Party spokesperson call for a major cut in any major spending area? Every time there is a dispute in the health system National says that the Government should give in and pay the doctors and nurses what they want. Every time there is a problem with regard to education they say we need more money here there and everywhere. Mr English used to say it is terrible that parents have to contribute towards the cost of schools and that the operations grant should be big enough for schools to not need to demand anything from parents. That is what he said. Well that would be an increase in spending; it would actually be quite a big increase in spending. 
Hon Bill English 
: So you will increase it? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Oh not as much as the member wanted. I have news for the member: schools are still taking contributions from parents. And I will tell the member something else: it does not matter how much the schools get because they would still take those contributions.