Smith StuartSTUART SMITH (National—Kaikōura): Thank you Madam Speaker. I know it's a tough call when you've got two Smiths up but you did choose the right one on this occasion—so thank you Madam Speaker.Hon Dr Nick Smith: You went for the older.STUART SMITH: Ha ha! That's right went for the older. It's a pleasure to get the call on the Appropriation (2019/20 Supplementary Estimates) Bill. We're talking about enormous numbers here. They do say that it gets very difficult for people to understand what millions mean once it gets above a lottery jackpot. I think that's absolutely right so I did a little bit of maths. This is $40 billion worth. So if we were to pay $40 billion off at $1 a second does anyone have any idea how long that would take without reaching for their calculator? Well I'll help you.Andrew Bayly: Mr Wood does. Over there he's got an idea.STUART SMITH: Has he? Right.Michael Wood: I just said that it will feel shorter than this speech.STUART SMITH: Oh that's very complimentary. Let's hope so. I hope it seems very long to you. It is my great desire to ensure that I actually give that member some great pleasure in my speech. So it is 1268 years for $40 billion at $1 a second. It's an enormous amount of money. If we talk about $140 billion which debt is going to increase by that's 4439 years at $1 a second. That is a massive amount of money and it shows the actual challenge that we are putting our children and our grandchildren through by borrowing this amount of money. Now yes we had to do something and we all agree that that's the case; it's the how and the what that is important.We've been here before Mr Speaker—nice smooth change there by the way very well done. The nearest thing that we have to compare to what we are about to go into—and we are only just going into it—is the 1930s. During that time we spent money on infrastructure. We finally did in the Rangitata Diversion Race—employed a lot of people taking water from the Rangitata River across the Canterbury Plains using it through irrigation on the way and then the remainder going down into the Rākaia and through the Highbank Power Station generating electricity—a great infrastructure spend. Now what we're seeing here with what's being planned in a lot of the infrastructure going forward isn't as transformational as that expenditure. I think that my colleagues have put this very well before—and certainly Andrew Bayly did—that when we're investing in infrastructure at a time like this it has to be transformational. It has to enable businesses to hire people to give good jobs that are enduring and increases not only our GDP but also increases our exports that we can sell to the rest of the world to pay our way in the world. And we'll need to do that and get very good at it very quickly because $140 billion of increased debt $40 billion in this bill as I said is a lot of money to pay off. It's an unimaginable amount of money until you start putting it in something like $1 a second.Now the wage subsidy yes it was a sort of quick and dirty but very effective way of getting money out the door as James Shaw mentioned in his speech earlier. He kind of didn't really understand the points that had been put forward by my colleagues on this bill because yes no one disputes that that has done a good job of keeping some people in work but it was quite surprising really that the Prime Minister was so shocked that The Warehouse announced that they were going to lay off 1080 people. The way it sounded she was personally insulted by it that that company would make a decision to actually lay people off because they had a wage subsidy. Well actually I don't think there would be anyone more altruistic than Sir Stephen Tindall. I think he runs his company with his employees in mind as I'm sure the rest of the board members do. But actually when you are a director of a company you have your first loyalty to the company—that is what's enshrined in company law. They would not have laid those people off had they not needed to do so. Yes the wage subsidy has got us through to now but actually it's putting off the day. What we need to do is to get businesses back functioning as quickly as possible. That was what was so concerning was to get our businesses back in operation.Now we know that during the lockdown the Government got themselves in a bit of a state of a tizz because they realised that they were having very great difficulty in getting fruit and vegetables to people in Auckland because 40 percent of fruit and vegetables in Auckland are sold through greengrocers so they were talking about redesigning the distribution of fruit and vegetables into Auckland. Do you know what the simple answer was? Open the greengrocers—open the greengrocers where people can buy it keep more people in work and get people the fruit and vegetables that they so desperately need. It was simple decisions like that that actually finished some businesses. Butchers and greengrocers are really put under pressure because of those decisions we make.These decisions are crucial that's why we take this so seriously. The things we are doing today when we have a normal three-year cycle in our elections and we have a change of Government as we will in a couple of months they're normally easily unwound any changes that are made and generally either side of the House makes minimal changes and whatever has been done there's not that much damage done. But now we're talking billions. We are talking about sadly our grandchildren with debt and impacting on their lifestyles. Now yes we've had a terrible experience with a pandemic and it's not over yet—we know that—and life has changed for everyone but we have to make—Hon Damien O'Connor: You borrowed $80 billion.STUART SMITH: —the right decision—Mr Speaker I believe that they're drawing you into the debate; I don't believe you borrowed any money but however it sounds like the member for West Coast-Tasman who's about to retire I understand as he loses his seat—Matt Doocey: Trying to get his name recognition up.STUART SMITH: —is trying to—yeah—trying to get his name recognition up; well we'll see how that goes for him next month.Forty billion dollars—it's unbelievable. They've turned a $50 billion problem into a $100 billion problem and that is going to cost us dearly. We worry on this side of the House about our grandchildren and how they're going to pay that off.This plan isn't a plan. The Napier to Wairoa line which has been talked about that's 19th century technology and it isn't even able to be utilised yet. What six times—six trains in six months? A waste of money.Rt Hon David Carter: Yeah they got COVID.STUART SMITH: Some of these—COVID apparently; yeah someone's got COVID that's for sure. This expenditure is not targeted in the way that it should be. We've got a bill that we'll be debating probably next week and they've got 11 projects; well there should be 111 projects on there. But all the shovel-ready projects that come up mostly I've seen would be business as usual; instead of the ratepayers paying for them they're being put on to the taxpayer. We need transformational projects such as the Rangitata Diversion Race was back in the 1930s.Andrew Bayly: You've got to have imagination.STUART SMITH: We do have to have imagination. We've got the brains in this country but we have to be able to utilise on that. In this stage with what we're seeing in front of us it's just not there. I worry about that. Yes we've got a lot of companies in trouble at the moment. They need a future. We need certainty for the businesses and we need certainty for the employees and we're not getting that at the moment.This wage subsidy has been—the current one that's coming up now with a 50 percent drop in revenue I mean that's great but it won't keep everyone going. Some businesses are going to fail and along with that there are going to be more people on the dole queue. That's unfortunate. We don't want to see that happening. But the $490 a week tax-free payment for those losing their jobs we're already seeing examples of people on that subsidy that will not take jobs up. You've got to be very careful that you don't end up—well not you Mr Speaker but we don't end up with a situation where we are disincentivising work. Because there are jobs out there but there's not as many as there were before. They may not get the job that they particularly want but there are jobs there and we just can't get people to fill them. Some of them are quite happy to sit at home for $490 a week and that's really unfortunate. I've got employers tearing their hair out trying to get those jobs filled and it's not happening. So we oppose this bill.