Logie Jan: Estimates Debate — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLogie Jan: Estimates Debate — In Committee[Sitting date: 30 July 2013. Volume:692;Page:12100. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]JAN LOGIE (Green):Over 200 years ago Adam Smith recognised that the essentials of life are “not only the commodities which are indispensably necessary for the support of life but whatever the custom of the country renders it indecent for creditable people … to be without.” The economic historian R H Tawney also stated that a good society is not just one in which people can rise but also one in which “they should be able to lead a life of dignity … whether they rise or not”. I would like the House to reflect on those two quotes in consideration of the welfare reforms that are being implemented at the moment. Under the most recent welfare reforms the potential for a life of dignity for beneficiaries has been further eroded. This Government ismaking it increasingly clear that those who require the assistance of the State are of less value in this society.As was stated again by the Minister for Social Development tonight when she was speaking to the employment estimates—somewhat obliquely but the meaning is still pretty clear to me—you are not going to get out of poverty by sitting on a benefit. Earlier than tonight she has talked about other parties leaving people to rot on the benefit—as if people have no agency of their own as if at times when jobs are available people have not found work and gone into those jobs and as if between 1999 and 2008 the number of people on the unemployment benefit had not dropped from 161000 to only 17000. This Government is treating people who require income support as if they have no drive of their own and that is not true. It is treating people as if they are not fully deserving of the same rights as every other New Zealander.New Zealanders have recognised that beneficiaries are now the most discriminated-against group in this country. We all know the myths—the myths that beneficiaries are job-avoiding lazy pot-smoking criminals who neglect their children. So what have these reforms done to ameliorate those myths to tell New Zealanders: “Actually no that’s not the case. These are people in need.”? We set up the social security system because women need to be able to leave violent relationships. Women or men who have been left by the main income earning - partner need to be able to support their children. People with illness and disability when there are barriers to their employment need to be able to participate in our society.” What has our Government done to uphold those values and enable people to participate in our society? Well actually it has fed those stereotypes which will lead to stigma.Actually it is really important at this point to point out to my National colleague Mike Sabin who is looking so sceptical that stigma—and there has been medical research on this—has a really dramatic and under-recognised effect on the distribution of life changes such as employment opportunities and housing. Stigma which these reforms feed actually creates barriers to people being able to get employment. It makes people sick and it increases costs to the entire society.Mike Sabin: Is smoking drugs a barrier to getting people into employment?The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): Order!JAN LOGIE: It is being yelled at me about drug-smoking beneficiaries these terrible drug-smoking beneficiaries as if beneficiaries are all pot smokers. Challenge those myths. I ask Government members to look at themselves and actually assess where these stereotypes come from and whether they are real. Is it serving us as a population for everybody now getting on a benefit to get a letter telling them they are going to be drug tested? Or for a woman leaving a violent relationship and looking after her children to receive a letter in the mail saying that you are going to be drug tested—is that going to help her look after her children and keep her family safe? No it is not.