Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 27 November 2012. Volume:686;Page:6763. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
4. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister for Whanau Ora 
: Is the Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund open to individuals who do not have New Zealand citizenship or residency; if so how many non-residents have received grants from the Fund since 2010? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA (Minister for Whanau Ora) 
: 
 The Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund is not open to individuals or privately owned businesses. However any New Zealand family or w’anau collective can make application to the fund. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has she received any reports of Whanau Ora providers using Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund grants to help overstayers remain in New Zealand; if so what are the details? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: My understanding is that we have had one provider in the South Island that during its work with a group on the Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund discovered that one of the members—there were 18 members of a family included—was in fact an overstayer and that it has been dealing with that issue. It has been incredibly transparent. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does that mean she is aware of a case in Canterbury where an overstayer with a history of family violence child neglect and drug abuse received help from Whanau Ora in an attempt to get his residency application approved? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: That is not correct. This particular person was as I said part of a group of 18 family members. They have been assisting that person with all of the issues that are confronting him including the family violence issues. The issue of whether he gets to stay in New Zealand will depend on the outcomes of that. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Kia ora tatou. How can the Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund inform or support the way in which the Government can address monitoring gaps in how taxpayer funds are being spent? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: The evaluation points out that the Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund plans provide an early indication of the goals and the aspirations that w’anau are pursuing. The evaluation identifies a rich w’anau-centred data source that points out where the gaps are for Maori in mainstream services and other families. The collation analysis and reporting of the data will enable Whanau Ora to demonstrate leadership in the State sector in being able to inform service delivery responsiveness. Operational improvements continue to be made as a result of this information including sharing of good practice and revision of policy and procedural guidelines and a greater understanding of this work draws on departmental capacity. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: So does that mean that this psychobabble is appropriate when a Whanau Ora provider supported this overstayer’s attempts to become a permanent resident despite him having a history of violence towards women and children as well as of substance abuse? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: I am not prepared to discuss in this House one individual person when we have 33000 members of families who are participating in Whanau Ora. Although this particular person likes to get around and find the issues where things are wrong— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This Minister is required to come to this House and answer questions properly put. She pointed out in answer to the primary supplementary question that she was aware of this case in South Canterbury down in the South Island and now she is saying she is not prepared to discuss it. She should be with respect told that she is a Minister. When a person properly puts a legitimate question in this House her job is to answer it if she has the information. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the member makes a fair point. If the Minister is invoking the public interest or—and I guess it is related—there are privacy issues where it is not in the public interest to breach privacy issues that is a matter for the Minister to determine. But if the Minister is not invoking such matters then the Minister should answer the question unless she is invoking those things. 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: I have already answered that particular question. I have made it very clear that this was a group of 18 family members that this issue was in fact disclosed by the provider immediately it was discovered and that that matter is being dealt with in the appropriate way. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why should New Zealand taxpayers be supporting an illegal immigrant with a history of family violence and substance abuse to work towards permanent residency when that information is on the material of the Whanau Ora provider that was dealing with this person? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: I have already told the House that this matter is being dealt with appropriately by the provider concerned. Mr Peters did not disclose this information; we disclosed it to him when he applied for it. We have been very transparent the provider has been transparent and the issue is being dealt with. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The only problem with that answer is that it is not responding to the question the member actually asked. He asked why—and admittedly it was seeking the Minister’s view on something but it would be helpful if the view related to the question asked—or whether the Minister considers it acceptable or something for taxpayers’ money to be spent on assisting an overstayer. I do not want to get the member’s question wrong so I invite the Rt Hon Winston Peters to repeat his question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: My supplementary question is why should New Zealand taxpayers be supporting an illegal immigrant with a history of family violence and substance abuse to work towards permanent residence when that information was available on the material that Whanau Ora was dealing with? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: That particular information was disclosed once this family had become engaged with the organisation down in the South Island. I want to point out that we do not agree with anybody misappropriating any taxpayer funds. In this case I do not believe that this is a misappropriation. That particular issue once it had been discovered is being dealt with appropriately. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given that the individual in question was a successful applicant to the Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund what confidence can the public have in Whanau Ora when it is so vulnerable to exploitation by overstayers gang members and other undesirable characters? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: I think that the member needs to make up his mind whether he is saying Whanau Ora is Maori separatism or that it is throwing open the door to immigrants because— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With the greatest respect my question has nothing to do with that at all. I am asking what confidence the public can have when we know that overstayers—in this case gang members and other undesirable characters—have received funds from Whanau Ora. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member—unlike some of the earlier questions—was simply seeking an opinion here from the Minister and injected into his question some statements the Minister may disagree with. I think we need to give the Minister a bit of licence in answering that particular question. 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: To quote Mr Peters “show me the facts and the evidence” that an individual—[ 
Interruption 
] Hold on a minute. You can laugh because that is how you deal with these issues: you laugh them off. You show me— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! [ 
Interruption 
] Order! This will cease. That answer is totally out of order because the Speaker is certainly not going to show the Minister any evidence whatsoever. The Minister is senior enough to know that she does not refer to members across the House in that way. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave of the House to table a Whanau Ora assessment and Whanau Ora family plan from Pacific Trust Canterbury—confidential it says on the document—dated 23 January and 24 February 2012 which stated the individual in question has a suspended immigration status and a history of family violence and drug abuse. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: How will we know a difference has been made in people’s lives through the Whanau Integration Innovation and Engagement Fund? 
Hon TARIANA TURIA 
: Professor Sir Mason Durie told Whanau Ora last week that most Government programmes do not measure outcomes; they measure volumes they measure the amount of work that is done and they measure the amount of money that is spent. Whanau Ora is about measuring the difference that is made and the outcomes that are achieved.