Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:14672] 
8.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay Of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Does he stand by his statement to the House of 18 November 2003: “If we look at the public prison system in New Zealand and compare its management of remand prisons with private prisons we see that the public prison service is on average $7000 cheaper than the private prison.”; if so why? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 Yes because it was based on costings provided to me by my department. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: If the Government can apparently run the Auckland Central Remand Prison cheaper than the private sector why is it budgeting to spend an extra $8.5 million running that prison when it takes it over? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I am extraordinarily pleased that the member asked that question because the answer is simply that the previous National Government funded the Auckland Central Remand Prison up until the end of the contract. It did not fund it beyond that. This money would be required whether or not the prison was in private hands. 
Georgina Beyer 
: How does the overall performance of New Zealand prisons compare internationally? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: It compares very favourably. As I previously reported to the House New Zealand prisons have a lower cost per day than those in Australia England Wales and Canada. New Zealand also has the lowest rates of suicide and assault compared with comparable jurisdictions. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Does the Minister agree that for the Government to pursue a policy of privatising prisons and drastically increasing the prison population as advocated by the leader of the National Party would lead to a dangerous Americanisation of our justice system and what effect does he think that would have on the integrity of our justice system? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Except for the parenthesis comment about that being advocated by a party the rest of the question is in order and that part of it will be answered. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Except for the part in parenthesis yes I agree. The fact is that in the United States the private prison lobby is now a very well-entrenched lobby. It lobbies Governments to get tougher on law and order thereby meaning more people are put in prisons leading to more profit by private prisons. That is precisely the issue that has been raised by the National Party in its attempt to try to court votes. The point is that the only person who should be taking away people’s liberty is the State; it should not be done by the private sector for private profit. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Does the Minister not realise that his statements make no sense when he tells the House that the public prison service can operate the private prison for $7000 an inmate less but his own official departmental documents show that it will cost $28000 an inmate more once the Government takes the prison over? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The problem with the member is that he does not read the papers properly. The other problem is that he opposes having prisons in his electorate but supports Don Brash building 10 more prisons—and that party wants to take away the right under the Resource Management Act to appeal against that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Now the member will come to the question. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Sorry; I apologise. The fact is that the Auckland Central Remand Prison in public ownership will have to be funded just like it would have to be funded if it were under private ownership. The previous National Government did not provide funding for it past the contract ending in 2005 and that is why the $8 million has to be provided. 
Ron Mark 
: Why did the Minister choose to ignore reports like the one in the  
New Zealand Herald  
on 10 September 2003 which said that since Australian Correctional Management had taken over the Auckland Central Remand Prison: “There has been a revolution in prison management. A new approach has set standards previously thought impossible across every area of the prison.” and that despite handling some of New Zealand’s most dangerous and high-risk inmates it remains the safest prison in the country for both staff and inmates alike? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Because I do not believe everything I read in the  
New Zealand Herald 
. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Did the Minister read his own official papers that state funding is required for the ongoing operation of the Auckland Central Remand Prison in addition to the current funding of $11.1 million? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Yes. As I have explained to the member despite the opposition from the Department of Corrections at the time when the previous National Government funded that prison it funded the prison until the end of the contract and not beyond that. That is what the funding is required for. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table a number of documents. The first is the Budget bid of the Department of Corrections which shows it will cost $20 million to run the prison and the department needs an extra $8.5 million. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table a document from the Audit Office about the additional $8.5 million. 
Document not tabled. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I seek leave to table an official document from the Department of Corrections about the additional $8.5 million as well. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.