4. Question No. 4—FinanceNICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 4—Finance4. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement that The Government is investing in New Zealand's economic security by ensuring climate change funding moves away from short-term piecemeal responses"; if so can he commit that every dollar of the $2.9 billion in spending committed in the Climate Emergency Response Fund for emissions reductions will deliver maximum value for taxpayers' money?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): Yes I do stand by my statement and in fact I went on to say "Increasingly businesses and households are facing the costs of inaction. We're ensuring the early heavy lifting is being done by the Government in partnership with large businesses as we deliver the reductions needed to meet our targets. Our climate investments will take pressure off Kiwis by providing choices and options for tackling climate change." In answer to the second part of the question the Government is committed to achieving the goals of the emissions reduction plan with actions and investment over a number of Budgets including this one. And as with all spending that the Government engages in we're focused on getting value for money for those investments.Nicola Willis: Will he confirm the statement made in this Budget document which states that the $678 million Government Investment in the Decarbonising Industry fund will "help businesses cut energy costs allowing them to become more profitable off the back of their climate action." and does he think Kiwis struggling with a cost of living crisis would agree that a priority for climate action should be making businesses more profitable?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: It's an interesting day in the House when the National Party opposes profit but we'll carry on from there! This plan is an integrated plan and part of that is making sure we get to the sources of the things that are polluting in New Zealand. Industrial heat is a big part of that. We could sit on our hands wait for the carbon price to climb up over $100 over $180 before the emissions trading scheme would do what the member thinks it would do or we could partner with business making sure that we actually do see initiatives come forward. Minister Woods has already indicated today in the ministerial statement just how much private sector funding got crowded in by the Government Investment in Decarbonising Industry fund. That will carry on in the future.Nicola Willis: Why has the Government allocated $18 million to develop an energy strategy framework and road map and what exactly will that money pay for that can't be done by the 5300 people already working at the Ministry for Business Innovation and Employment?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Firstly the climate commission advised the Government to do such a strategy. Secondly if the member doesn't understand the potential of the hydrogen economy for New Zealand I can't really help her. We need an energy strategy that actually works for the next 20 30 and 50 years and that's what we'll deliver.Nicola Willis: Does he stand by his decision to allocate $16 million "to fund a programme to co-design an equitable transition plan" and why can't some of the 648 staff at the Ministry for the Environment do that work with existing funding?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Again this betrays the fact that the National Party simply don't understand the significance of climate change. There are going to be huge shifts in the kinds of jobs that New Zealanders do and the impact on households. The National Party doesn't seem to think we should have a fair and equitable transition to climate change. I probably shouldn't be surprised by that.Nicola Willis: In light of his spirited defence of millions being spent on strategies and plans can he tell the House how many additional public servants if any he anticipates will be hired to work on commitments funded from the climate emergency response fund?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: This fund and this plan are designed to make sure that New Zealand's GDP lifts in the future. It's designed to make sure that we have a transition that supports New Zealanders. It will mean New Zealanders will be better off. What will make New Zealanders worse off is inaction and absolutely no plan by the National Party. That will increase costs on households.Nicola Willis: Well can he explain how action 3.3.1 in the Government's emissions reduction plan to "develop an income insurance scheme"—that is introducing what is sometimes described as a "jobs tax"—will reduce—SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member will rephrase her question.Nicola Willis: Can he explain how action 3.3.1 in the Government's emissions reduction plan to "develop an income insurance scheme" will reduce greenhouse gas emissions?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I know on the National Party's side of the House it's 1950 but actually over on this side of the House we understand that when you have a climate transition people will change jobs and they actually need to be supported when they lose their jobs. The New Zealand Income Insurance Scheme will do that. The National Party can live in the 1950s for as long as they like."