Douglas Roger: Valedictory Statements 
Douglas Roger: Valedictory Statements 
[Volume:676;Page:21615] 
Hon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS (ACT) 
: 
 I was first elected to this House in 1969. I had the privilege to serve in this Parliament during a period when Parliament was dominated by members such as Keith Holyoake Robert Muldoon Norman Kirk and David Lange—more about that later. The year 1969 was to all intents and purposes the end of the Holyoake era. They were different times: new members shared an office; new members shared a secretary—four members to one secretary—Parliament did not sit until June 7 months after the general election; if Prime Minister Holyoake found you in the billiard room he would hang around and chat to you for 10 or 15 minutes. We had two popular bars then—the members and the messengers—they were full every night. Lobbyists journalists MPs messengers private secretaries—no one seemed to worry about any leaking in those days. 
Estimates were always dealt with under urgency. If you got home at 1 o’clock you counted yourself extremely lucky—2 or 3 or 4 o’clock was the norm especially if you had a Leader of the Opposition like Norman Kirk. I can remember sitting in the third row one night at 3 o’clock and Norman Kirk took eight calls in a row—four on State Insurance and four on Government Life Insurance Corporation. In those days the bills were put into a bill binder and he had a monstrous fist. At 3.30 he was pounding the damned bill binder and it was jumping up and here I was trying to sleep. 
The library was pretty important in those days because parties did not have a research unit. It was actually one of the staff in the library Keitha Booth whom I pinched when I became the Minister of Broadcasting in 1972. 
By the end of January 1973 I had a paper ready to go to Cabinet. That Cabinet meeting in many ways indicated I think the character of Norman Kirk. I think the paper was something of a surprise to most Cabinet Ministers—there was no Treasury report and when all is said and done I did not have any help in preparing it within Parliament. The discussions went on for about an hour and Norman Kirk had not said anything so I did not know really how it was going. Then he looked at me and said “Can you implement this?”. And what could I say but yes? He went on to say “It’s nice to be implementing our policy not someone else’s.”—meaning the Civil Service of course—“Show Martyn Finlay your press release before it goes out.” and that was it. It was often said about Norman Kirk that he was a man in a hurry because of his illness. In my view he was just built in that way. I liked it. He was impatient and sometimes he was impatient in an unrealistic way but it definitely showed that he cared. Clashes in the House between Kirk and Muldoon were something to behold; they were the things that legends were made of. 
Kirk’s passion had always been in housing and after his death I inherited the housing portfolio. Housing at the time was Labour’s Achilles heel: too much demand too few resources prices out of control; what to do? Well you know what you do: you get the caucus committee together you get the housing committee and you prepare a paper. So that is what I did. I prepared a paper that was 61 pages long. It was really a great paper. I thought it pretty good until Treasury’s paper came along and that was 75 pages long and it said no to every recommendation. So we went to Cabinet and I remember that the discussion went on for a couple of hours. At one stage I thought Bob Tizard had gone to sleep. I was not opposed to that and at one or two points I thought I should give up. But Joe Walding was saying “Keep going Rog keep going.” Then all of a sudden they passed the lot. You can imagine: a whole paper passed. 
I waited for the Cabinet paper and I thought “That’s fine.” Then on Sunday I was playing cricket with my son Grant in Simla Crescent and up the drive walked Henry Lang: “Minister could I see you for a moment?”. “Yes Henry come in. Would you like a cup of tea Henry?”. “Yes I’ll have a cup of tea.” We sat down and he said “Minister we can’t really have this you know.” And so we had a good debate and the fact was that I knew he was right so I gave about 90 percent or slightly more away. 
There were a lot of great civil servants I have served with over the time; Bernie Galvin was another one. Bernie went on to be head of the Prime Minister’s department and head of Treasury. I can always remember Bernie in 1974 or 1975 coming to a Cabinet committee and telling Hugh Watt that a roading project that he was recommending did not meet the 10 percent rate of return. Hugh looked at him in puzzlement and said “Young man I’ve got to tell you it’ll never be cheaper.” Joe Walding and I we enjoyed that so much that we postponed it for 1 week. Obviously Hugh won in the end. 
After Kirk’s death Parliament and the political scene were dominated of course by Muldoon. After 1971 Muldoon would come in here at 2 o’clock create absolute havoc and then leave either because he wanted to leave or because the Speaker had decided that he should. But the fact was that he was particularly formidable. I remember my first encounter with Muldoon. I was a young backbencher. I got up to make a speech on the estimates and I made the speech and he was sitting in the chair and he got up. One thing that I liked about Parliament then was that Ministers actually replied a lot more than they seem to do now. I know that the time-limited debates have changed that but it was certainly something. Anyway Muldoon got up and said “Oh the member for Manukau. He made a couple of points. Well when he has been here a little longer he will understand.” and then he sat down. I thought “Blow that I will have another go.” I had another go and he got up and said “There he goes again. He’s new. You probably have to forgive him. Oh look I’ll tell you what. If he comes and sees me later I will tell him. I will explain it to him.” I thought “Blow that I will ring you up.” so I rang up Muldoon’s office and explained. I heard nothing so I thought “Blow that I will ring again.” In due course he made the appointment and he sat me down. We did not go anywhere but it was a good story. 
He was always one for one-liners Muldoon. He always had them ready. I remember there was a vote on liquor here. I am not sure what the actual vote was about; it might have been about wine in supermarkets. Anyway only 12 of us went into the Ayes lobby and about 80-odd members went into the Noes lobby. We were standing there and one of the 12 was Muldoon so Ruth Richardson and I were really ribbing him asking: “What are you doing here?”. He looked at us and finally said “Oh I was going to vote on that side but I saw Geoffrey Palmer go into the lobby.” 
It was not until Lange came along that Labour had a match for Muldoon in a political sense. In some ways Lange was particularly quick maybe even quicker than Muldoon. One famous night I remember that Lange was at full throttle. Muldoon was sitting there—he had had a couple of gins I might add—and he was chipping Lange. Lange was ignoring Muldoon and Muldoon finally leant over and said “You’ve got a big fat gut.” Lange quick as a flash said “Yes but mine’s much higher off the ground than yours.” 
You know he could be incredible in many ways Lange. I had to deal with the New Zealand Steel expansion which was part of the previous Government’s Think Big. It was actually a financial disaster. John Ingram who was managing director of New Zealand Steel came to see David Lange and me. When John came into the room David said “Hello John. If I didn’t know you better I would be thinking your financial adviser was Bernie Cornfield.” For the benefit of those who do not know who Bernie Cornfield is he was a noted London fraudster in the early 1970s. It was very hard for John Ingram to make any progress after that. I have flown down from Auckland with David and he has had the crossword done before the plane took off. 
Much has been written and even books have been written about the differences between Lange and me. I will not go into that tonight other than to say that probably the biggest difference was our approach to things. David sometimes got threatened if policy suggestions got outside his comfort zone whereas I just liked the debate anyway. I liked to win but if I lost—well there you are. It reminds me that luck plays quite a big part in politics. I remember people like Jim McLay who may well have been a great Prime Minister but he was up against Lange and he was just never going to win. That is just one of those stories. 
I will not go into one or two other things such as how I nearly left Parliament in 1981. I can probably thank in part David Lange and my committee. I told the Labour Party caucus in 1981 that I was going to leave and I was persuaded to do otherwise. What that shows you is that events can in fact change your life. I always remember that I was pretty uncomfortable with the way we were promising every group everything. I think I had been sacked from the front row here and I was in No. 14 position and Palmer was sitting up behind me. Now Geoffrey is a very efficient operator and he was sitting there. I was reading the  
Evening Post 
 and there were promises on education and something else and I turned round to Geoffrey and I said “Geoffrey do you know what’s wrong with the Labour Party?”. “No” said Geoffrey very seriously. I said “You are. If you weren’t so dammed efficient Geoffrey we wouldn’t have all this policy.” 
I need to wind up and thank a number of people. I have been well served in my parliamentary career. I had the luck to have both Richard Prebble and David Caygill as Associate Ministers and if I did accomplish anything I certainly accomplished it with their help. They were different characters. I can remember and it is maybe just one small case the first time I met Roger Kerr at any length. He was coming to tell us why we should reduce tariffs which I wanted to do anyway. David Caygill was a bit more cautious because he had to deal with the manufacturers in any case. The meeting went on and of course Preb’s attitude was why do we have tariffs at all? But Preb had the habit that he would like to turn the train round that was going at 200 miles in one direction and point it in the other direction. The only problem was that sometimes you wondered whether he was doing it just for the sheer hell of it whereas with David Caygill you would be in Cabinet and would have a paper from him that was 800 pages long on a health regulation and he would tell you there was a word spelt wrongly on page 262. But they were great. 
There was Trevor de Cleene of course and I have to tell one story about Trevor although I should not. 
Hon Rick Barker 
: Please! 
Hon Sir ROGER DOUGLAS 
: I have to; I am sorry if I go over my time. Trevor was a character and you never knew whether—well he was on your side. But Trevor was one of those guys. You went to a meeting with 100 people there and if two did not leave he was pretty upset. In any case a new company listed on the stock exchange and I did the opening but Trevor was the after-match speaker. I heard him this night and he told the story about how we had lowered taxes. He said “We’ve lowered taxes from 66c to 33c and I’ve got to tell you Roger and I were on the 6th floor and the money’s pouring in. The money’s pouring in; we’re drowning in it.” Then he whispered to them “The only problem is we send it down to the 5th floor and Ann Hercus flushes some of it down the toilet.” I can tell you Ann was not very keen on that and I got roasted. 
I want to thank some of my staff during the 1984-87 period. I had some great staff. Geoff Swier—I always remember taking Geoff to Palmerston North to a farmers’ meeting. I never understood why farmers were angry with me but anyway they seemed to be. After the meeting I walked out and looked around for Geoff. You could see him anywhere: at 6 feet 6 inches for heaven’s sake you could see him anywhere. I got out to the car and I said “Geoff where did you get to?”. “Ah” he said “I didn’t mind them thinking I was your bodyguard but sure as hell I didn’t want them to know I was your economic adviser.” Murdo Beattie came to me from Treasury. I had dinner with Murdo 2 nights ago and he reminded me of when we met up with Keating in Paris. I explained to Keating that we were having a bit of trouble with the affluent oldies: I had put a surcharge on them and they did not like it very much. Keating commented to me “Well look if you get into that situation you might as well hit them for six.” 
People like Geoff Swier Murdo Beattie Bevan Burgess Loraine Hawkins Ian Dickson Pattrick Smellie—I had a great team and I am very grateful to all of them. They were not afraid to come and tell me off if they wanted to. I always remember going on strike with journalists for 2 days and Pattrick who used to look after my day-to-day stuff—Bevan used to do the long-term stuff—came to see me stood in front of me and said “Minister get over it!”. So I said “Out!”. About 30 seconds later I said “Pattrick you know I think we ought to be doing A B C and D.” 
Pauline Elmes who has served me in my electorate and in a private capacity is here today. She spent 30 years with me. Margaret Cosgrove whom many of you will remember was my secretary here for 15 to 20 years. I owe them a debt of gratitude. 
It would be remiss of me if I did not mention Graham Scott who was head of Treasury when I was the Minister of Finance. Graham worked day and night and is an enormously dedicated civil servant. People used to say to me “You don’t seem to get worried.” I said “Why would I worry when I’ve got Graham Scott?”. The only time I got Graham worried was when I suggested that the goods and services tax should be called the “Graham Scott Tax”. He was not very keen on that for some reason. 
Finally if I could I want to thank my family. Glen is here tonight. Glen took most of the load in raising our children. I think Glen would have preferred that I never went into politics but on the other hand when I needed her assistance or guidance she was always there for me. To my children Grant and Megan I am grateful for them and what they have done to help. One always worries—I think most of us worry—about how our children will make out because politics is not easy and it is sometimes not easy on the children. Grant went to Auckland Grammar School and it is probably 90 percent National there. I think the fact that he was in the first XV for a couple of years and the cricket first XI for 4 years helped whereas Megan just gets on the front foot and nothing will worry her anyway. 
So with that I am sorry if I went overboard. I have enjoyed my time. I have enjoyed my time here with members on all sides of the House. That is another thing I did not mention: I think in the early period 1969 to 1970-odd members mixed a lot more than they probably do today and I think that is probably a good thing. But thank you to all of you. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Colleagues with time moving on I request your indulgence. We move now to the valedictory statement of the Hon George Hawkins.