Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:637;Page:7625] 
3.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Does he believe he is getting value for money in health; if so where? 
Hon PETE HODGSON (Minister of Health) 
: 
 We are getting better value for money but further improvement is always sought. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Has he seen reports that a Te Kuiti primary health organisation practice is offering a cash bounty for people to enrol in the primary health organisation—inducements of $20 cash per person or $50 cash per family and a prize draw of Warehouse vouchers—and is he satisfied that offering cash for clients is an ethical way of accessing public health subsidies? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: My answer may be a little longer if I may Madam Speaker. The member will be aware that this health clinic has had longstanding financial and managerial problems; that it is under new management; and that with the Waikato District Health Board a marketing plan is in place to increase enrolments. The marketing plan involves many things—newsletters public activities open days media publicity and on it goes. Clearly the health clinic went a step too far with its cash prizes. The district health board has already told it so—along with the Waikato primary health organisation I would expect—and it will not do it again. There are two reasons to increase enrolments. The first is the viability of the health clinic. The second is as important. This part of the King Country has about 3000 people who are not enrolled with anyone. That is out of a population of only 19000. That is a very high proportion and lots of people are intent on fixing it. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: That’s not right. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Yes it is right. 
Tariana Turia 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker tenatatou te Whare. Does the Minister believe he is getting value for money when it is alleged that patients normally required to stay overnight following surgery at Wanganui Hospital are discharged to motels where family or health service providers are expected to care for them and return them to the hospital in the morning for post-operative examinations; and how safe is that practice? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: I am not sure what the value for money of it is nor am I sure of the safety of it but I would be very happy to have the member raise the issue with me privately if she wishes. I am going to Wanganui in the next few weeks I think. 
Ann Hartley 
: Does the Minister know how this health clinic raised the prize money? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Yes I do. The prize money was raised at the local pig hunt where volunteers ran a canteen and sold raffles. Last night Mr Ryall rushed on to national television to breathlessly advise that the taxpayer would be upset. The taxpayer did not pay. Yet again he makes it up. Yet again he is wrong. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Can the Minister confirm that a significant amount of the increased health sector spending has gone towards paying nurses adequately in order to retain their skills here in New Zealand? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Yes I can and as a result recruitment and retention of nurses in the New Zealand health sector has improved significantly. I am very proud of the pay increase to the New Zealand nurses who work for district health boards and I thank them for their ongoing efforts. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: How is it that the Government’s policy rules allow primary health organisations or their practices to offer patients a cash bounty that gives the primary health organisation hundreds of dollars in taxpayers’ money for every person it has paid $20 or $50 to which another primary health organisation has labelled discount marketing of health care? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: This is a fast-moving portfolio. The member is not aware apparently that a stopper was put on that weeks ago. 
Hon Member 
: No. 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: Yes. Let me tell the member something else. Yesterday I had the opportunity or the pleasure of spending part of the day in my own electorate of Dunedin. There I found the Otago University health centre offering an iPod for registration. I doubt that the member would consider that unethical and I wonder whether I might say carefully whether that is because it involves a very different demographic. 
Ann Hartley 
: What value are New Zealanders getting from additional primary-care funding? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: For mainstream New Zealanders—all of us—we are getting value for money from our primary health care strategy now. By and large what has happened is that a young family’s annual cost of going to a general practitioner has fallen from about $750 per year on average to about $200. An older couple who on average used to pay about $780 year now pay about $340 a year—something to be proud of I would say. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why as this case demonstrates does not he as Minister apply proper systems to the administration of this funding in the first place instead of spending days with his mop and bucket tidying up yet another mess he has created in the public health system? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The member continues to feign outrage. He should reflect on the fact that 94 percent of the enrolees in this practice are Maori Pacific Island and/or lowest deprivation profile. Some politicians use the word “underclass” to describe such a population and rush towards them with muesli bars. I would say that the member cannot have it both ways. Either his party has discovered what it calls an underclass and wants to brand itself as caring or his party is prepared to take a swipe at those who are committed to the delivery of better health services to the so-called underclass whenever the opportunity arises. He cannot have it both ways. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: So is the Minister saying it is OK for a Maori primary health organisation to offer these sorts of inducements? 
Hon PETE HODGSON 
: The member did not listen to my answer to his first supplementary question. It is not OK. It has been stopped. It ain’t gonna happen again.