Collins Judith: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
Collins Judith: Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Bill — In Committee 
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JUDITH COLLINS (NZ National—Clevedon) 
: 
 I thank the Minister for taking a call because she is certainly taking the odd call on these issues. I am disappointed that we have not yet heard from the chairperson of the Health Committee Steve Chadwick who I do not think has taken a call on this bill in the entire time that we have been debating it in the last 2 days apart from closure motions. 
Having said that I think it is a good point that we have at least an appeal process as opposed to a review process of the decisions of the tribunal and the authority. An appeal process is one in which it is easier for a person complaining or appealing to actually bring a case. Quite often in these sorts of matters in the past we have had judicial reviews of decisions. They are extremely expensive and it is very very difficult to bring about a change of opinion. I am supportive of an appeal rather than simply a judicial review. I think that is a very good point. 
Having said that I point out that a significant amount of this part of the bill does in contradiction to what the Minister has just said deal with the fact that there will be appeals against findings of scopes of practice. It is all very well for the Minister to say that the courts do try to look at the current procedures of the tribunal that they are looking at in the decisions. However the tribunals we are talking about here are brand-new. This is a brand-new tribunal that we are looking at in terms of its processes in terms of its composition and in terms of the many different health practitioners that it is going to be regulating and looking at. That is one of the issues here. It is going to be quite some time before we get any case law. That will lead to a lot of uncertainty and cost. That is a concern. 
This whole process is going to be by way of appeal far more inclined towards courts and court processes and therefore towards lawyers and legal processes. There has been again a tremendous amount of concern from people like dental therapists as to the amount of costs that might come to bear upon their particular professions. Several smaller professional groups are concerned that although they are very seldom complained about they will end up having to bear the cost of the professions that are the subject of most complaint—in other words the frontline people who are having to make life-and-death decisions. That is a concern and it is a facet of a one-stop shop which this bill is all about. I would have thought that the Minister would listen to the advice of these groups who are people trying to do the right thing and wanting to be properly regulated but who are also very concerned that they are often on relatively low salaries and working in schools and other places where they do not earn huge amounts of money. They are concerned about those particular costs. 
Steve Chadwick 
: The committee listened. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: It is nice to hear that the chairperson of the Health Committee can actually speak as she is now doing. It would be very very nice if she could take a call and speak to this particular bill. 
Phil Heatley 
: Say something constructive. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: Something constructive would in fact be very good thank you Mr Heatley. In many ways we are pleased with some of this particular part of the bill but in other ways we are concerned along with our ACT colleague that not enough consideration is given to the practicalities. There is a tremendous amount of consideration given to the theory but as is often the case with the Labour minority Government there is a lot of effort put into the theory and very little effort put into the practicalities. The Government is being driven by particular groups that have its ear more than other groups do. That is a real concern. This part of the bill and the bill itself is going to be a particular bonus to the legal profession. It will be a bonus to the court system. I am concerned that there will not be enough room in the court calendar for it. It will take a long time.