Carter John: Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill — In Committee 
Carter John: Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:675;Page:14426] 
JOHN CARTER (National—Northland) 
: 
 The first thing I want to reflect on is the valedictory speech given earlier by Ann Hartley. I have to say it was the most political valedictory speech I have ever heard. It was a disgrace. 
I will move on to the Waitakere Ranges Heritage Area Bill. I say first of all that the fact that the member Lynne Pillay was talking about 83 percent of the scientific poll that was carried out by somebody asking people whether they would like more protection for a heritage area is a bit like someone in the Labour caucus being asked whether they are opposed to Helen Clark. It is the same sort of question. 
Nathan Guy 
: Do you want more protection from her? 
JOHN CARTER 
: Yes that is right. I mean what a nonsense question. It is crazy. For Lynne Pillay to sit here in this Chamber and suggest that on the basis of that “scientific poll” we should support the bill she has to be kidding. 
I want to come to something I consider to be very serious. I want those members who support this bill to listen very carefully—particularly my colleagues from the Maori Party who are honourable people. I make the point that when I went into the first hearing of the Local Government and Environment Committee on this bill I said to the officials: “Can you please tell me why we are doing this? Obviously we are doing something extra over and above the Resource Management Act that cannot be accommodated under the Act.” The officials said no that the bill just develops the Resource Management Act but does not do anything extra. So I kept asking them: “Well if it does not do anything extra then why are we doing it?”. I wanted to know. There was no answer other than: “Well we just need it to be there so people know that it is there. But it does not do anything extra.” 
I constantly kept asking for the reason why we have this bill if it does not do anything more than can be done under the Resource Management Act. After about 3 months— 
Mark Blumsky 
: Longer. 
JOHN CARTER 
: I am not sure how much longer it was but I have witnesses here to the answer. Finally I had a concession from the officials that actually yes the bill did go further than the Resource Management Act. They had lied to the select committee—deliberately lied. 
Even further down at the local government conference last year I was talking to the Mayor of Waitakere City Bob Harvey. I asked him: “Do you realise your worship that your officials lied to the select committee?”. He said he did not believe me and that it was not true. I said that he should come over and we would talk to some of them. So we went and talked to some of his officials who were there and I said to them— 
Taito Phillip Field 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. The point I make is that it is an accepted understanding in this House that we do not call members liars. It is grossly unfair for somebody to accuse officials of lying when they are not in a position to defend themselves. I think it is inappropriate for the member to refer to officials in that way inside this Chamber. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I just have a query Mr Carter. Were you referring to anyone in the House? 
JOHN CARTER 
: No I was not referring to any members of Parliament. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Thank you. 
JOHN CARTER 
: I want to make it clear that it was the council’s officials not the parliamentary officials who misled the select committee. It was not our parliamentary staff; it was the officials for the local authority. That is what I was saying. 
I said to the mayor Bob Harvey that he should come and talk to his officials and ask them whether this bill will do more than the Resource Management Act can do and ask whether they had told the select committee that it would not. Bob Harvey himself asked the officials whether they had told the select committee that the bill would not do anything more than can be accommodated in the Resource Management Act. They said: “Yes your worship we did say that.” Bob Harvey then asked whether they could confirm that the bill actually does do more than the Resource Management Act. Their answer was: “Yes your worship. That is true. We have now told the select committee that it does.” 
Those officials deliberately misled the select committee and that really makes me angry. There may well be some purpose behind this bill. There may well be some good reason why there are people who want to support it. But the one thing I will not and cannot tolerate is being misled or deliberately lied to. Quite honestly that is not acceptable. That really made me angry and it makes me angry to think that now we have other parties who support this bill on the grounds that they have been told—because they were not there—that this bill does not do any more than the Resource Management Act because it does. 
Hone Harawira 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Given the comments made by the speaker would it not be more appropriate for him to have those officials brought before the Privileges Committee if he seriously considers that they have lied to a select committee? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: No it is not a matter for us to discuss here. That is not a point of order but if you were just clarifying something then that is fine.