edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
SpeechANGELA ROBERTS (Labour): Thank you Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to rise and take a call on the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill. It has been a privilege to be on the select committee that has been shepherding this bill through its processes the Education and Workforce Committee. I want to thank and acknowledge everyone who did submit on this bill and those in this select committee from across the parties who did engage in good faith even though in the end we couldn't agree.I think that it's really clearly a demonstration of where our focus is and where our priorities are. This bill is about the exploitation of workers so we're probably starting in a different place from some of the other members in the House. So we're really proud to be bringing this. This is about looking after our temporary migrant workers who are vulnerable. We need to look after them. We don't just have a moral imperative but an economic one. We know how important these workers are to our economy and we need to make sure that we look after them.Simeon Brown: Get Immigration New Zealand doing their job.ANGELA ROBERTS: We know that this bill sits within the wider work to combat migrant exploitation which started with the temporary migrant worker exploitation review. It's really pleasing to be able to remind the other side of the House who seem desperately concerned about the capacity for Immigration New Zealand and Employment New Zealand and remind them that we have increased resources to meet those exact issues that have been raised: $50 million is not exactly nothing.Simeon Brown: Spending more but it's doing worse.ANGELA ROBERTS: So what we've done is that we've increased those resources we have new reporting tools and we also—obviously somebody hasn't quite kept up with what's going on. We do actually have a Migrant Exploitation Protection Work Visa and so it would be helpful if we were debating a bill in the House that everybody had their facts straight on and kept up with the significant progress we have made in this Government to support our migrant workers in a wide range of ways.This bill means that we have a more proportionate and efficient enforcement kit for our immigration officers and labour inspectors to deal with low-level offending. This is actually about making sure we can support employers to get it right before things get really out of hand. The penalties and the exploitation are significant. And because of that I commend this bill to the House.
SpeechIBRAHIM OMER (Labour): Thank you Madam Speaker. I rise to take this short call on the Worker Protection (Migrant and Other Employees) Bill. The member who just took her seat Erica Stanford listed a few reasons why the National Party is not going to support this bill which is disappointing because it's at moments like this that this House needs to come together and address this serious issue. But then migrant exploitation happened throughout nine years of the National Government. It was happening under their eyes; they haven't done anything about it so we are not surprised. However she tried to underplay these serious offences as low-level offences. Underpaying people is not a minor offence; it's a serious offence. It's a crime. Denying people their basic rights such as smoko and lunch breaks is not low level; it's actually a serious offence and a crime and these are some of the things that this bill is trying to address.I could go on and on and on but it's quite clear and I'm sure that some of my friends who will be speaking after me will address some of these points as well. This bill implements legislative changes to help address temporary migrant worker exploitation that were announced in July 2020. The bill proposes to amend the Immigration Act 2009 the Employment Relations Act 2000 and the Companies Act 1993.In 2018 Cabinet agreed to progress an action item to take serious action on migrant exploitation. This culminated in the temporary migrant worker exploitation review. The exploitation exists on a spectrum. It takes many forms. It's rampant in our country. It's happening. It's ugly and needs to stop. I believe that this bill is going to play a significant role in doing just that.I'd actually like to thank the Minister for her hard work in bringing this bill in the House because this was much-needed legislation. Every day we see stories in the media where people are severely exploited to the point of people attempting to take their own lives because they don't see any way out of the issue.I'd like to thank the members of the Education and Workforce Committee. Regardless of the member disagreeing or not supporting the bill tonight as a committee we came together and did good work in scrutinising the bill. The officials obviously worked hard to report the bill back to this House. This is a serious issue. This is a very important issue to not only the migrant community but actually to us as a country. It's a bad image for our country and gives us a bad reputation. It's important for our businesses as well. So it's timely legislation. It's very important and I commend it to the House.
Chhour KarenKAREN CHHOUR (ACT): Yeah I have to kind of follow on from that. Time and time again we've seen processes just being trodden over. Whether it's under urgency or it's shortened report-back times it's not allowing the public time to have their say. And in this bill in particular it's not allowing the social sector to come along and have their say. This could affect them quite severely and this is a really important decision we have to make. They work in such an important sector and deserve to have their voices heard. And I'm actually very very frustrated that we've got all these bills being shortened—the time frame that we actually get to listen to the people. Isn't that our job? Our job is to represent the people. Our job is to represent those that we might be affecting by changing laws. And so how are we supposed to understand what those effects are going to be if we don't listen to the sectors?Hon Peeni Henare: You just said you're well connected to the sector.KAREN CHHOUR: Yeah I would like to listen to what the sectors have to say and I would like to give them enough time within that shortened time frame to be able to have their say. We have all these convoluted processes that keep getting trodden over and Labour doesn't seem to want to represent the people that they say—[Interruption]ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Order! Order! That's enough back and forward across the House.KAREN CHHOUR: We need to be able to follow proper process so that we can make good law so we don't end up back here amending the law again and kicking the can down the road again. The social work sector deserves better social workers deserve better and New Zealanders deserve better. So we need to stop doing this and we need to stop changing the processes and follow proper process.
Radhakrishnan PriyancaInstruction to Social Services and Community CommitteeHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: I move that the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 24 August 2023 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions) during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House and on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area despite Standing Orders 193 195 and 196.The Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill needs to be passed by 27 February 2024 to avoid the experience pathway being repealed. Having the experience pathway unavailable even if only for a short period may create confusion for the sector at a time of significant change. Completing the select committee process before the 2023 election will reduce the risk of a delay by allowing the bill's second and third readings to be ready to be progressed once the House begins sitting following the formation of the 54th New Zealand Parliament. The bill proposes a single change to the Social Workers Registration Legislation Act 2019 to delay the repeal of section 13 of the Social Workers Registration Act 2003 from 27 February 2024 to 28 February 2028. This change continues existing practice for four more years and will enable the sector to respond to significant changes in their operating environment including the Government's extension of the social worker pay equity settlement that provides a financial incentive for social workers to become registered through the experience pathway the social worker workforce supply and demand pressures that have been exacerbated by COVID-19 and increasing recognition of the value of indigenous practice in social work and ensuring equitable pathways into the social work profession. The Ministry of Social Development has worked closely with the Social Workers Registration Board and engaged with the social work sector to inform the developments of the bill. There is sector support for a temporary extension of the experience pathway to enable the social sector to adapt to significant changes in its operating environment. The low complexity of this change as well as the sector support for the proposal makes the slightly shorter select committee process appropriate.
SpeechANAHILA KANONGATA'A (Labour): Noa'ia e te Mana Whakawā. It's always a privilege to speak in this House but particularly on this bill the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill because I am a registered social worker and I know what it's like to be a social worker to manage social workers—and I know what it's like. So before I get on to that I want to acknowledge the weather event in Auckland and as the Labour list MP based in Papakura I want to thank the Papakura Marae who have opened up their door to accept people in tonight. So please do go out to Papakura.Social work is a calling and I want to thank everyone that has chosen social work to be their calling and if you think about social work I want to invite those who are interested in social work to please enter into social work. In 2003 the legislation came in. I was a youth justice manager in Ōtāhuhu at the time and it took me four years to register. And that's how long it takes for someone in the field to think about registration to fit it within their workplace and to support others to do that. So one of the reasons why I registered as the manager was to encourage social workers to register. The year 2025 is when the Social Workers Registration Board will put in their review of the Act so having an extension to 2028 makes sense because if they make recommendations from the review of the social workers registration then we can take these four years into account. I would love to speak about the work carried out by social workers but I think we've heard enough from the House today. But I just want to say to social workers who could be probation officers who could be working at Oranga Tamariki who could be at the hospital and who could serve the community and its most vulnerable people thank you for what you do in the community.This bill is an important one and I commend the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill to the House. Mālō.Motion agreed to.Bill read a first time.ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): The question is That the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill be considered by the Social Services and Community Committee.Motion agreed to.Bill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.
Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill — First Reading
SpeechDr LIZ CRAIG (Labour): Thank you Madam Speaker. In my time in the hospital system social workers were a crucial part of the team and what their role was was to work with patients and their whānau who were often in very difficult circumstances and connect them through to the services that they needed but also to make sure that they had a safe place to return to when we discharged them home.But it's also crucial given the important role they play in people's lives that social workers have the relevant training and experience. And this is why the Government passed the Social Workers Registration Legislation Bill in 2019 which required everyone practising as a social worker to register with the Social Workers Registration Board. But it also recognised that there was a number of people practising as social workers in the community who while they didn't have the relevant academic qualifications had had experience over a number of years. And so basically what this bill also recognised was the need for something like the experience pathway which was in the original Social Workers Registration Act. And so that was retained for a period of time which would allow people in this situation to register with the Social Workers Registration Board based on their experience.But as we've heard in the House tonight the experience pathway is due to be repealed on 28 February 2024 and what this bill will do is extend that for another four years so that people in this situation have that pathway available to them for that period. So it's a very simple bill but it's an important bill and I'm happy to commend it to the House.
Utikere TangiTANGI UTIKERE (Labour—Palmerston North): Thank you Madam Speaker. It's a pleasure to rise and take what will be a brief call on this bill. I want to add to the chorus in acknowledging the work that social workers do in communities all around this country. I certainly do not disagree with any of the comments and contributions that members have made in the House this evening in that regard.This amendment bill is about ensuring that there is some certainty for those who have a pathway to registration for social work based on the experience route. Sure there are opportunities for qualifications to be gained—that is one particular way in which a professional in this field may gain registration; ensuring that there is some certainty within the experience pathway is another. It's interesting to note that the things that are taken into account are largely based around experience—for many that's many many years working in the sector as a social worker—but also that they're able to demonstrate some competence. So it's not just about the number of years that a social worker may have been in the job or doing the role but ensuring that they maintain competence as a practitioner but also ensuring that the whole various range of different cultural competencies are there as well.This is a bill that is not about lowering the bar; it is about ensuring that there is certainty for a period of four years to those who currently have a route to registration within the social work field that being experience. I commend this bill to the House.
SpeechHon POTO WILLIAMS (Labour—Christchurch East): Kia ora Madam Speaker and thank you for the opportunity to speak on this legislation.I just want to say a couple of things. Social workers are hugely important and to work with some of the most vulnerable people in our community—and I know we've got a couple of social workers in the House whose experience and knowledge will speak directly to this—it's really important that we support them in their work by ensuring that they are safe to practise and that's the whole point of registration in the first place.However in saying that we all know lots of people who have worked in the social work field very competent compassionate and capable people who for one reason or another have not gone through a formal education process but have all the skills and hallmarks of good social work practice to their core and have this opportunity through the experience pathway to then become recognised as a registered social worker. We should provide them with that opportunity because it is important for us to have competent social workers and it is important for us to grow the pool of social workers.However in saying that at the same time we are sending a very strong message that this experience pathway will at some point no longer be available and we really want to encourage people to take the opportunity that our institutions can provide in terms of that skill set and those qualifications. They are a hugely valuable workforce to us and I can't say more so than in recent times when we as a country have gone through some very difficult times. I support this bill to the House.
Menéndez March RicardoRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green): Tēnā koe Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to support the Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill which in effect will delay the repeal of the experience pathway for social worker registrations for four years until 2028. As has been canvassed this pathway has existed since 2003 and it was meant to be repealed in February next year. I guess it's worth noting that this pathway was intended to provide people who have experience in relevant social work practice—for them to become registered. It's important to note that there has been a huge range of benefits to this pathway in that it also has created the conditions for about 25 percent of people coming in being Māori and increasing the number of Māori social workers that we have where the community has given really really strong feedback.As somebody who prior to being an MP acted as a field educator training incoming social workers—and shout-out to the students from Unitec and Massey University—I can see why this pathway is really important because we would have registered social workers who would often come to my previous workplace of Auckland Action Against Poverty who themselves had very little relevant knowledge of how for example Work and Income worked and yet we have members of our community working not necessarily as registered social workers but who had a depth of knowledge and experience in doing advocacy for members of their communities who actually could become incredibly competent registered social workers yet there was no pathway for them to be recognised prior to this. Sometimes re-entering university was simply not a feasible option for them.I take the point that previous members have made regarding some of the challenges in the sector. Those are all really worthwhile challenges for us to throw at the Government regarding pay regarding just general uptake of social workers the social workers themselves feeling valued and the cost of entering this experience pathway. But I think at the core what this bill is aiming to do is to protect a pathway that has had benefits and I do also look forward to submitters then being able to unpack what else there is that we need to do to ensure that this pathway maintains its relevancy and that it continues being fit for purpose acknowledging that it would now be 20 years old in terms of for example the requirements that we ask people and the sort of criteria that we set for people coming into that pathway.But it is important that we do build a valued well-paid and resourced social worker workforce because they're key to ensuring that our communities are able to access their legal entitlements to support them feeling connected and that we have a diverse workforce as well so that our migrant communities our Pacific and Māori communities feel like they can access support in a way that is culturally competent. So we look forward to the submissions from the public and the Green Party will be supporting this bill.
Bennett GlenGLEN BENNETT (Labour—New Plymouth): Kia ora Madam Speaker. Social workers play a mana-enhancing role within our communities. They play a transformational role within many families in our communities and they are so necessary and continue to be necessary. Now in my adult years working with young people I've experienced and worked alongside social workers in places like school classrooms and in my home or at other times in police cells—sadly in prison cells at times as well—as well as down the streets and in other parts of our society. Social workers have had to step in and work and walk alongside me and young people that we have been working with. For me it's seeing the crucial and the important role they play and therefore we need to get this piece of legislation through to ensure that we can extend this piece of work that we can ensure we have good social workers working within our communities. It's around enhancing the professionalism. It's enhancing the safety not only for the social workers but for those they are working with and for those within their communities. This is important legislation. I just want to say thank you to the social workers throughout Aotearoa New Zealand who do such a coalface piece of work in terms of supporting our most vulnerable. I commend this bill to the House.
SpeechANGIE WARREN-CLARK (Labour): Thank you Mr Speaker. It's a real pleasure to stand and speak on this bill. The Social Workers Registration Legislation Amendment Bill is something that I have been really delighted to read. It's a very short bill and it just changes the date as we've heard from the member the Hon Louise Upston who has resumed her seat. It gives an extra four years for the ability to apply under section 13 using experience.Now the reason I'm delighted to stand and speak to this bill is that no I'm not a social worker but I have spent a large proportion of my work life working alongside social workers and what I can say is that there is a number of extraordinary practitioners out there who do not hold qualifications. They do not hold qualifications yet their work is lifesaving their work is incredibly professional and their work is absolutely strength-based and empathetic and the thing about that is that it is also safe practice. So I'm really delighted that this pathway remains for another four years.It's actually quite a difficult process to become qualified in this manner and in fact I have helped and supported and mentored a number of people into this pathway and it has taken them up to two years to do that to gather the evidence. So I am delighted that we have a four-year window for this.I just want to very quickly say as well today we have got some really nasty adverse weather events happening. We'll have our emergency services in there on the front line—I acknowledge that—but after that it will be our social workers who are in those homes. It will be our social workers who are there in the community in the emergency accommodation and all of the places that they need to be in order to help and support our community. So with that very short speech I commend this bill to the House.
Tinetti JanAMENDED ANSWERS TO ORAL QUESTIONSQuestion No. 8 to MinisterHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Thank you Mr Speaker; thank you for your advice. I seek leave to correct an answer to a supplementary question that I gave in answer to question No. 8 today.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There is no objection.Hon JAN TINETTI: In my answer to supplementary question No. 5 of question No. 8 I said that I did think it was a coincidence. I misinterpreted the question and have since read the Hansard. I would like to correct my answer to: no the information has been released under the Official Information Act that shows that it wasn't a coincidence.
O'Connor GregDEPUTY SPEAKER: The question is that the motion be agreed to. Motion agreed to.DEPUTY SPEAKER: The proposed address is available on the Table of the House. The question is That the address be adopted.Address agreed to.
Utikere TangiCHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Members the time has come for me to report progress. TANGI UTIKERE (Chief Whip—Labour): I move That the committee report progress.Motion agreed to.Progress to be reported.House resumed.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): The committee has considered the Appropriation (2021/22 Confirmation and Validation) Bill and reports progress. I move That the report be adopted.Motion agreed to.Report adopted.
Annual Review Debate — Education
Potaka Tama; Stanford Erica; Simmonds Penny; Tinetti JanTAMA POTAKA (National—Hamilton West): Thank you Madam Chair. Just in relation to the NCEA level 2 question that I asked earlier that has not been responded to—perhaps because of your comment Madam Chair. Can the Minister please point to the relevant appropriation within the 2022 accounts that actually drive towards reversing the trend the falling trend downward trend of Māori 18-year-olds with NCEA level 2 equivalent?ERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Just a quick question: I was wondering if the Minister could tell us what the job description of the 82 attendance officers that she announced on 21 February this year is and what their duties are expected to be.PENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Can the Minister confirm whether it's a statutory obligation for Te Pūkenga to have lodged their annual report with the Minister at the beginning of May and if they lodged it at that time and what an indicative deficit for Te Pūkenga for 2022 is if she can't give the final figure?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): I just want to address the attendance officers. The attendance officers' job description—although I haven't got it right in front of me but broadly speaking the 82 attendance officers that we announced are working with young people or working to increase attendance in young people who are at risk of falling into that chronic stage of non-attending. These are generally the moderate non-attenders at this stage. There are two parts to their job descriptions so while it's not a heavy focus on the caseload that certainly could be part of it. So I have heard that there are some people agitated that there's no caseload component; that's not right and I've asked officials to clarify that with Attendance Service throughout the country as well that that could be part of it. But really what we're looking at is around working with schools to develop their plans and identifying the resources that they need to bring those levels of attendance up. I'm all for early intervention in the attendance space but I think that sometimes we leave it to the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and I really believe that we need to get in sooner. But I also know that the Attendance Service and those that are working really well in this space are the experts in this area and that they've already made connections and that they already have relationships with the families and many of the young people too—because they might have come across them through their siblings as well. So we need to look at their expertise in this area to be able to turn some of the issues around that we're seeing in the attendance space.
Simmonds Penny; Tinetti JanPENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Te Pūkenga is an entity that as I said before forecast a $58 million deficit then reforecast a $110 million deficit then a $63 million deficit. The Tertiary Education Commission received the draft results for Te Pūkenga in February of this year. The Minister herself would have to sign off any sale of land assets for Te Pūkenga therefore the Minister must know that draft figure at the very least—Hon Grant Robertson: She doesn't have to give it.PENNY SIMMONDS: —and the Minister—no. Well can the Minister confirm whether she doesn't want to or is not able to give the deficit?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): At this point in time I'm unable to give that deficit. It's not been made public but I'm also unable to give it.
Stanford Erica; Tinetti JanERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Just regarding the Minister of Education's answer earlier about the inquiry time not being part of the NZEI negotiations the NZEI have written to a number of principals saying Regarding the removal of inquiry time members should note the following: The removal of inquiry time is a Ministry action that they notified us about during the course of negotiations. Because of the way inquiry time is provided to schools it is not necessary for our team to agree to this action in order for the Ministry to implement it. Inquiry time is not a feature of the Primary Teachers' Collective Agreement but it is instead a staffing allocation provided for in the [Ministry of Education] Order 2022." So my question still remains: of the 999 schools who are at less than 175 students how many of those will lose out staffing allocations because of the removal of the inquiry time?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): That might be the case but it is part of bargaining this time and so therefore I can't actually talk about it. But I can tell the member Erica Stanford that if I get different advice I will make certain that she gets that information back to her and I will give her that guarantee. I have been told that it is part of bargaining and while it is sitting as part of bargaining as the Minister I will not break good-faith principles. But as I said if I hear different and get different advice after this session I will make certain that the member gets that."
Tinetti JanHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): There was a question from Ms Stanford before the break asking about the total value of inquiry time in 2022. That is $20 million per year. As far as anything else is concerned I cannot discuss inquiry time because unlike what the member said it is part of bargaining.
O'Connor GregCHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Right members. We resume. We have 35 minutes left for this debate.
Tinetti JanHon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): So inquiry time is worked out where a school's guaranteed minimum formula staffing or assured staffing is greater than 10 full-time teacher equivalents (FTTE). We calculate the inquiry time by dividing the school staffing by 10 and multiplying that result by 0.06 to give an annual FTTE allocation. That will be how you work that out and that's available on the website if the member would like to go and check that out.Erica Stanford: The total values?Hon JAN TINETTI: So the—well I'm just saying that the member can go and check that out on the website.Reducing class sizes and the announcement around that—it was very clear at the time when that announcement was made that this is not related to the current bargaining rounds at all. So we have heard the stressors that teachers are under and we announced—which was probably well I believe the more important part of the announcement was the ministerial advisory group. We had to back that up with an announcement as well. And so that announcement was made. But it is very separate to bargaining. Reduction of class sizes should never come into bargaining; it should always fit separately. But we do have to have that oversight at the ministerial advisory group level which will let us look at all areas of the system not just one part in isolation. However we did make that announcement because we do know that the year 4 to 8 staffing entitlement does sit as a bit of an anomaly to the rest of the system. So we do know that it is very likely that a ministerial advisory group will come up with some sort of recommendation in that area. So we were able to lean into that in the first instance.There is no settlement yet so what the member is relating to and referring to as far as what was being bargained in the settlement does not exist. There is no settlement. And as far as that is concerned as Minister—and I have said this time and time again—I cannot comment on that because we are in the middle of good-faith bargaining happening and I will not lean in any further other than making high-level statements around them.
Stanford EricaERICA STANFORD (National—East Coast Bays): Thank you Madam Chair. I'll start off this debate on the topic of staffing allocations and I've got around about five questions. So I'll give these all to the Minister in one go and let her answer afterwards if she's able to. I guess my first question to the Minister is: what is the total value of the inquiry time funding that is allocated to kāhui ako for the 2022 period? The reason that I'm asking that—I'm sure the Minister is aware of where this is heading—is that in her recent announcement to give schools some staffing allocation to the value of $130 million or about 320 teachers I believe in two years' time I'm keen to see what the difference is between these two numbers. The reason that I'm asking—and there are a number of other questions I want to ask the Minister around this—is that there is a plan to disestablish the inquiry time and it's been signalled in the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) agreement. Communications from the NZEI to its members recently said For financial reasons the Ministry of Education insisted that it is essential for them to disestablish inquiry time." and "To be clear" it was the bargaining team's preference for the "inquiry time to remain." I want to ask the Minister: were these financial reasons that the NZEI speaks about the financial reasons for finding $130 million to fund the 320 teachers in two years' time in an attempt to reduce class sizes? Because what this seems to be is a sleight of hand switching out one staffing allocation for another. My next question to the Minister is: how does she explain it to a principal in the middle of the North Island who contacted me to say that in two years' time he will gain 0.2 of a teacher but lose 0.15 of a teacher for his inquiry time allocation through kāhui ako for his 330 children? My third question to the Minister is: of the 1942 intermediate and primary schools 999 of those have fewer than 175 students. In her recent announcement those schools with fewer than 175 students will not be eligible for any of the additional staffing allocations she announced yet many of those schools if they're in a kāhui ako will be eligible for the inquiry time. So my question to the Minister is: how many of those 999 schools that do not get any allocation from her latest announcement will lose out and be worse off because they lose their inquiry time allocation in what seems to be a switching of one staffing fund for another? Those are the questions that I have around the switching of the inquiry time for what seems to be her latest announcement. So the questions were: what is the total value how does she explain it to the principal who's going to be only 0.5 percent of a teacher better off were the financial reasons the NZEI spoke about the fact that she needed to find that money for her latest announcement and how many of the 999 schools with less than 175 students will actually be worse off because they don't qualify for anything under her announcement and yet they lose out under the inquiry time."
Verrall AyeshaHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health): I am returning to an earlier question about emergency departments and also to the issue of the winter plan because those two issues about acute demand in our system are related. In that area we have a focus on keeping people out of the emergency department and we've talked previously about community initiatives to enable GPs pharmacists and others to do more. We can also improve the flow within the emergency department. This includes making sure that telehealth services are better available and also sometimes we can provide virtual care as well. These options some of them have been piloted at Middlemore emergency department and are being rolled out in other places.I think in relation to the last question on eating disorders if I look across the mental health system generally there has been a considerable number of reviews and pieces of work done around what the appropriate way of structuring our mental health system is. I think it's important to get on with it and keep growing the services that we have rolled out both through the 2019 funding and 2020.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jacqui Dean): Members our time with the Minister of Health has ended. The Minister of Education is now available for one hour to respond to members' questions.
Annual Review Debate — Health
Doocey MattMATT DOOCEY (National—Waimakariri): Thank you very much Madam Chair. Fair to say I think as a parent one of your worst nightmares would be realising that your child had or was developing an eating disorder. What we've seen under Labour since 2017-18 is that when they came into office 49 percent of young people who needed eating disorder treatment were seen in the first three weeks. By the end of 2021-22 that had dropped down to 24 percent—a decrease of 51 percent of the number of young people who are accessing lifesaving eating disorder treatment in the first three weeks. And of course when that access is constrained it's clearly obvious what's going to happen and we can see that in the statistics with hospitalisations for eating disorders over that same period increasing from 542 to 802—an increase of 47 percent. So the number of young people being seen under the five years of Labour go down 50 percent and the number of young people who have to pitch up to hospital to get a level of care increases by 50 percent.Despite the $1.9 billion announced for mental health funding into eating disorders has been quite static at about $8 million. Now the Minister I'm sure will get up and say that in the last Budget they announced a few million dollars for eating disorders but after what we learnt today about their announcement for crisis services and people waiting in the emergency department for 94 hours—the longest in the history of New Zealand—who would actually have faith that this Government spends the money that they announce? Because time and time again we find out that money is still sitting there while the need increases.So my question is to the Minister. When you speak to the eating disorder sector they are calling for an independent review—that's what they want. They say investment is good but they don't even know themselves where you'd put that investment—until you've had an independent review that would inform an eating disorder strategy in New Zealand and then a subsequent investment strategy. When we've asked the last health Minister Andrew Little he's refused. He's said no. An independent review that's not going to happen under his watch. He did not listen to the eating disorder sector. So I'm asking the Minister today if she could get up and say whether she supports the eating disorder sector's call for an independent review into the lack of access and services for our young people who are suffering from eating disorders today.
SpeechDr ANAE NERU LEAVASA (Labour—Takanini): Noa'ia Madam Chair fạiȧkse'ea. Minister I just want to say thank you for answering some of our questions. You've already answered a couple of mine. I do have two just to target but I appreciate the work that's been done in terms of the mental health Access and Choice programme especially what you've mentioned about our Māori Pacific vulnerable and youth-specific programmes that target these groups.I just want to focus on the public health and the winter preparedness. I know there's work in progress being done on workforce waiting lists but also on the winter preparedness plan as well. When it comes to these public health initiatives we want to make sure that equity is one of those things—inequities in our community whether it be flu respiratory syncytial virus COVID19 the various initiatives that we're doing in the sector to help our communities. So that's one question: what initiatives are up to plan?Number two is also in the year in question about the COVID-19 response and what lessons has the ministry the sector learnt. Again I want to point out to the many providers that have done great work whether it be primary care or secondary care in order to vaccinate treat and manage those with COVID-19 and those with comorbidities as well—the hard work from the sector in protecting our community. So what lessons have been learnt during that time? Thank you.
Reti ShaneDr SHANE RETI (National): Thank you Madam Chair. A couple of points that the Minister has raised; she's made the point—or tried to make the point—that there were some years when there was no capital expenditure. Can she identify those years then please?Secondly she's wanted to take some issue with the 31-day cancer treatment target. Can she explain then why it's one of the Health New Zealand performance measures that are reported every quarter? If it wasn't so good as we're raising the question why is it now a health performance measure? The third point she sort of liked to attribute everything to COVID. Without doubt it's had impact and I'm not saying that it hasn't. Of course it has. But what I'd say is if we look back at the metrics before COVID even arrived how were surgical wait-lists doing then? How were first specialist assessments doing and emergency department wait times? They weren't doing so good even before COVID hit our shores. So while I accept it's been a contributor I'm not prepared to say Oh this is all a COVID responsibility". And if you talk with people like John Bonning who was spokesperson for the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine out of Waikato and he was very clear: "This is not a COVID blip". So while I accept it's been a contributor I do not accept that it's totally responsible. What I also just wanted to talk to then was during this period in review the Canterbury gynaecology referral pathways—which were created in December 2021 and said that they would not accept gynaecology referrals unless they needed to be seen within four weeks. That is unless they had a degree of urgency within four weeks. That went in place on 1 December 2021—was due to be reviewed December 2022. At that time it was reviewed and they've now stayed in place and I've received a number of emails and communications from women in the Canterbury region saying "Why do we have to be that urgent to get on to the gynaecology referral pathway?" So maybe the Minister could talk to that as well. Thank you."
van Velden Brooke; Verrall AyeshaBROOKE VAN VELDEN (Deputy Leader—ACT): Thank you Madam Chair. I want to pick up on the Minister's comments. We're talking about $11 billion of increased expenditure over four years. The Minister has talked about small increases to the pharmaceutical budget some increases for the pay of nurses we've talked a little bit about an increase due to COVID but during COVID the expenditure was sitting around $20 billion to $23 billion. We're talking about $28 billion last year. Where is that money going? It's not going to the nurses' increased funding. It's not going to increases in pharmaceutical budgets. What added value are we getting from that money?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health): I think the member's question has been addressed. I'll turn to the early comment about comparable salary with Australia seeing we're on the topic of nurses' salaries which have been put up by this Government and part of the interim pay equity payment that was made just a couple of months ago to nurses who work in Te Whatu Ora brought those base pay rates. To be clear that is what we are talking about: the base pay that you get for working a regular week in New Zealand to be on par with New South Wales Victoria and Queensland. Subsequent to that in April Queensland raised its pay rates so that they are ahead of New Zealand and other states now.But all of us New Zealand and the Australian states stay in ongoing pay negotiations. So while I am sure that those numbers will bounce around from time to time we are in a much better position than we were before where we had a major gap between New Zealand and Australia. So it's a very important lever to making nursing an attractive profession to go into and to stay in and for other people to come from overseas.In addition not just in Te Whatu Ora but in the funded sector we've implemented pay parity for nurses. So now we are halfway through a process of rolling out pay parity whereby those nurses who work in roles say in aged residential care and Māori and Pacific providers have an avenue for their pay to be increased. That's a $200 million commitment that we're rolling out there.It's very easy to say that we need to do things about workforce but the Government has been doing that work for some time to raise these pay rates and show that we really do value these important workers.
Verrall AyeshaHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Minister of Health): I understand in a year where we have had the challenges of a pandemic that many New Zealanders would have come out of the year under review with all of that disruption and their mental health would have been under pressure. But I want to assure the committee that our mental health system has never been stronger. The Access and Choice Programme that is the cornerstone of the Budget 2019 mental health roll-out is really hitting its straps and now over half of New Zealanders are enrolled in a general practice and they can walk in and often on the day get mental health support in terms of their health issues and also coaching on how to address other mental health wellbeing issues. That service—we designed it intentionally to address some of the equity gaps we know exist with mental health and I am proud to say that rather than being set up in the ways of many other services this service is actually being used more by Māori and Pacific than you would expect as a proportion of population because we've set it up with their needs in mind. In addition the Government is taking action on the wider influences of wellbeing through the Mana Ake programme and the Piki programme that is being rolled out in many parts of the country. We are taking more innovative approaches using telehealth more or mental health apps which we know brings in people into the mental health system who might feel that an in-person consultation was too confronting for them. So this is another way in and it's more convenient. We have set up the structures within Government to be able to coordinate with other social agencies because we know mental health issues also touch on policing issues they also touch on housing issues and often people in need of mental health support also require support from other Government agencies including the Ministry of Social Development. In addition the work we are doing on our mental health workforce is paying off and this is what happens when a Government shows leadership rather than brushing things under the carpet as has been done in the past. When you show leadership work in this area becomes more desirable and that's why for the first time that I can remember the psychiatry training programme is oversubscribed. We are training more psychologists than ever—and yes there is a mental health workforce plan. It is being redeveloped by the new agencies as well. But we are well on the way in mental health to building the workforce of the future.