Hide Rodney: Third Readings — 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Hide Rodney: Third Readings — 
[Sitting date: 02 September 2008. Volume:649;Page:18301. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
The Government has looked at all the evidence as the select committee did. We looked at the evidence that had been given to the OECD. We looked at the advice given by the UK House of Commons environmental audit the G8 conference of legislators and other worldwide august bodies. All of them without fail said there is great doubt about the introduction of biofuels into a country. They said and we have heard it said tonight that the worry in countries where biofuels have been developed for example in Europe is that African nations have been asked to provide biofuel at the expense of feeding their populations; people are going hungry as a consequence of other countries getting involved in biofuels. 
We have heard tonight that this Government has already admitted that it knows there is no absolute evidence that this sort of legislation will work in this country. The Government can point to no evidence. There is not one iota of evidence anywhere to say that this sort of legislation has been proven. But the Government tonight is asking this Parliament and this country to embark on an experiment and its reason is that we have to start somewhere. The Government says that it is certainly the Greens’ argument and United Future’s argument that we have to get off the ground and get going somewhere so we might as well do it. Well that is all very well. Why does this experiment have to be in New Zealand? Why does it have to be on the people of New Zealand? 
Rodney Hide 
: No one else is stupid enough. 
JOHN CARTER 
: I think that is actually the nub of the issue. The fact is that no one is arguing about using biofuels; we are saying to let competition introduce it because it will then get on and it will be accepted. But where its introduction has to be forced where that has to be done by rules and regulations it is bound to fail. 
The co-leader of the Green Party said: “Well of course we don’t have to worry about all those things overseas. We don’t have to worry about the negative impact that it might have on African countries.” as did the member from New Zealand First. He said: “We had a look at it. We know that it has a negative impact—that people will starve because of the introduction of biofuels—but we can’t do anything about it so we won’t worry about that. It’s OK. We’ll do it here. It doesn’t matter if they starve over there because it will happen anyway. We can’t do anything about it so we won’t worry about it.” Actually we do have a responsibility. The point is that if we look at biofuels just from a New Zealand perspective the impact we will have worldwide is virtually zilch. 
Rodney Hide 
: Virtually? It’s totally zilch. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Well we might be able to mount an argument that it might have a sliver of impact somewhere. 
Rodney Hide 
: I have got more hair on my head than that. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Ha ha! That is the very point. In fact we should use the member’s head as an example of how the experiment will not work because quite honestly we can’t grow hair where it ain’t going to grow. We are not going to make an impact where it ain’t going to happen.  
The sad thing is that are asking New Zealanders to pay for this unfortunate experience. With this unfortunate experience we are saying to New Zealanders: “Look we will have a bit of a go but we know it will cost you money.” The Minister said in his third reading speech that he thought there might be a bit of a cost or that there could be some saving. Well he actually contradicts the Minister of Finance who said it will cost this country money. He said that it will cost this country money. In every bit of evidence that came before the select committee no one said that they would make a saving or that some people would be better off. No one anywhere suggested that from a financial perspective this was a positive. Everyone argued to a greater or lesser degree—the amounts we debated in the select committee ranged between 1.5c and 7c; those were the amounts put forward—but the fact was that no one said: “By the way we can save you some money. Jibe up with us and we will fix it up and you will be better off.” Nobody argued that at all. That is the problem. The Minister of Finance acknowledged in his contribution in the Committee that the legislation will cost this nation money. It will cost the people of this country more money out of their hard-earned income. I say that quite honestly that is not acceptable. 
Finally we have the matter of making the legislation compulsory before we have set the standards which is absolutely nuts. You know there is no reason why we have to rush into this. Nobody has stood up—maybe some speakers maybe Peter Brown will stand up and convince— 
Rodney Hide 
: If you pay him. 
JOHN CARTER 
: Well I do not know—people will pay for this so maybe that is what happens. But the point is that no one has been able to put forward an argument to convince us that we should make it compulsory and then worry about setting the standards later. I have to say that that is the dopiest thing I have ever heard. In all the time I have been in this House I have never yet seen legislation that puts the horse before the cart but this bill does. All we will end up with is a biofuels issue that backs right up and rolls over itself. That is what will happen. It will roll right over itself. It will not work and I have to say that no convincing arguments at all have been put forward by anybody in this debate tonight to say why we should be the country that embarks on this experiment. 
I say again that no one is arguing about the use of biofuels—no one is arguing about that—but the issue is the way we are going about it. People will argue and I know that Jeanette Fitzsimons will argue that we need to get started. Peter Dunne came down and said “Let’s get going.” Well no one is arguing about the fact that we should address these issues; it is just a matter of how we go about it. The fact is that this legislation will just set us off on the wrong track. It will set us off on a way that will actually end up being a negative. Instead of something that could have been positive for our nation and positive for our people we will end up with some legislation that will be to the detriment of this country and to the detriment of those things we are trying to achieve. I say tonight that if this bill is passed this country will be the poorer for it.