Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:613;Page:9627] 
5.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF) 
: What responsibility does the Government accept for problems in the Department of Child Youth and Family Services that the  
First Principles Baseline Review  
finds to be “deep and systemic” and that “are about more than just levels of resourcing”? 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF)) 
: 
 The Government does believe that the department must have the resources and systems in place to fulfil its functions. That is why we agreed to the whole-of-organisation review of the department after it had been in operation for 2 financial years. That was a long enough time to give us a good knowledge of the real issues facing the department. 
Katherine Rich 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister did not answer my question. It is quite simple: after 4 years in office does the Government see itself being responsible for the failings at the Department of Child Youth and Family Services—yes or no? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member cannot insist on a “yes” or “no” answer. The Minister addressed the question. 
Katherine Rich 
: In a week when the damning house report will be released and when the chief executive was scheduled to be before the Social Services Committee for the department’s financial review is it not just too much of a coincidence for Jackie Pivac to up and resign and swan off for a holiday when she and the Government have more pressing issues to attend to? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: No. 
Georgina Beyer 
: What does the Minister believe is the underlying cause of the problems identified in the baseline review? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The Department of Child Youth and Family Services was set up as a stand-alone department in 1999 by the National-led Government with neither sufficient resources nor systems and without an adequate infrastructure. That followed a history of underfunding by the National Government. For example— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is an extremely serious issue. Children die in this country because of the failure of this department. To start saying that it is the problem of a previous Government after this Government has been in office for 4 years and through four Budgets breaches every aspect of the Standing Order and should be stopped. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: And that stops too because it is not a point of order. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It had better be a point of order this time because that previous point was not; it was a point of debate. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I refer to Standing Order 372 which talks about the use of arguments inferences imputations epithets or ironical expressions. That is all we have had from this Minister on an extremely serious issue. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is up to the Minister how she constructs her answer—as long as she addresses the question. She had not finished. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: That followed a history of underfunding by the National Government. For example the former agency’s budget was slashed by $30 million in the 3 years between 1990 and 1993—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I accept interjection during answers; I do not accept a rabble-like noise. There is too much interjection; I must be able to hear the Minister. Some interjection is fair enough but I must be able to hear the answer. 
Barbara Stewart 
: What proposals are planned in the current Budget round to solve the fundamental problems that cause the overwhelming demand for the services of the Department of Child Youth and Family Services; or is the Minister’s Government prepared merely to sacrifice the careers of senior public servants on a regular basis? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The member asking the question may have overlooked the fact that about 10 days ago we released the baseline review of the department which had a comprehensive package of recommendations and the funding agreed to in order to implement those recommendations. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: On what day did the Minister first find out that the Department of Child Youth and Family Services did not know how many children were in its care and can she tell the House what she did about it? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I regret I am unable to provide that information but I will provide it to the member as soon as possible. 
Sue Bradford 
: What level of expertise and practice management will Treasury and the State Services Commission bring to the Department of Child Youth and Family Services on the new advisory group set up as a result of the baseline review and will the Minister consider adding someone with credibility in this area such as the Commissioner for Children to the advisory group? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I do believe that that proposal is worthy of consideration. 
Marc Alexander 
: What responsibility does the Government and the Associate Minister accept for the alarming fact that about half of the notifications to the department have to be revisited because they were not dealt with effectively when what that means in real terms is that in 32000 cases children have suffered from further abuse and neglect unnecessarily; if not why not? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: That specific point was identified in the baseline review: that the trade-off between quality and quantity had been made to the detriment of the performance that was acceptable. That is responded to by the recommendations of the baseline review. 
Katherine Rich 
: When the Minister offers the lame excuse that after 4 years it is still the National Government’s fault for underfunding how does she reconcile that comment in light of the Prime Minister’s statement regarding the Department of Child Youth and Family Services that: “It’s no longer about money. There’s been a lot of money going in so there must be something about systems processes and the ways of operating which isn’t working.”; does her Government accept responsibility for the failure of those systems and processes over the last 4 years; if not why not? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: That was exactly the point that was made in the baseline review: that it was about more than just money. Since we were elected in 1999 we have significantly increased the money and as the baseline review recommendations pointed out it did not make a marked difference. That is why the previous Minister agreed to have a baseline review. 
Georgina Beyer 
: Is the Minister able to expand upon what the Government is doing to address the problems facing the department? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: We have already increased funding to the department by more than 50 percent. We have improved the professionalism of social workers strengthened the relationship with the community sector and agreed to the baseline review recommendations. The review has a comprehensive range of recommendations which will be implemented. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: Does the Minister believe that the former Minister Steve Maharey’s $216 million “circuit-breaker” programme to rebuild the image of the Department of Child Youth and Family Services delivered on its promise; if so in light of the damning review of the department exactly what did the $216 million circuit-breaker programme achieve? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The member misrepresents the purpose of that funding increase and in my view that is irresponsible when we are talking about the functions of such an important department. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I ask you to consider that answer. The Minister said that the question was misleading and therefore somehow out of order. The phrase was “circuit-breaker” and that is what the Minister said it was. I suggest that if the Minister is going to accuse members on this side of misleading then she should at least elaborate on what she is saying. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister never used the term “misleading”. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: Following on from the baseline review and the resignation of the chief executive what assurances can the Minister give the parents caregivers and families of the children who are now clients of the service that their cases will be dealt with in a professional stable and beneficial way for those children? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The baseline review did acknowledge that there were deep and systemic problems with the operations of the Department of Child Youth and Family Services some of which will cause public concern. That is why the Government made it a priority to consider and support the implementation and full funding of the recommendations—for exactly the reason the member raised in his question: so that the public can have confidence in the department’s functions. 
Katherine Rich 
: Does she agree with the Hon Tariana Turia’s statement regarding the resignation of the chief executive of the Child Youth and Family that: “This situation was not of her making and is a reflection of Jackie’s integrity and character that she has offered to resign.”; and does she think that her failure to express confidence in Jackie Pivac plus the placement of three other Government organisations to babysit the department played some part in the decision of Jackie Pivac to resign? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Yes and no.