Prebble Richard: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Prebble Richard: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:610;Page:7349] 
6.  
Hon RICHARD PREBBLE (Leader—ACT NZ) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Given his statement in question time last week in relation to police resourcing that “The Government put the money in and the police ended up not spending all the money that they were given” is he saying that the police have been given all the resources they need to fight crime and if there is any shortfall it is the police’s fault; if not why did he say this? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 I have never laid fault on the police. The police are doing an excellent job of catching criminals and keeping our community safe. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Why did the Minister not say to the House that 80 percent of the police budget is human resources and that the real reason the police did not use all the resources that Parliament voted for them is that last year they were 140 police short and that as such he as the Minister of Police is responsible because he cancelled not one not two but three police intakes? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I have never cut any intakes. I do not have the authority to do that; it is the job of other people. But I want to say that the police had an unaudited surplus of $9.77 million last year in the year before a $1.082 million surplus and in 2000-01 a surplus of $1.723 million. That compares with 1999-2000 when there was a deficit of $74 million. 
Mahara Okeroa 
: Has the Minister read any reports recommending optimum police numbers? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Yes. In a recent letter to the Prime Minister Muriel Newman—a doctor of mathematical education—stated that New Zealand needed 6.8 billion more police. She said: “We would require a further 1700 sworn police officers per head of population.” 
Richard Worth 
: In the context of the surplus that has been generated is he not concerned about the statement of a senior police officer in the  
Dominion Post 
 today that: “The level of service we’re providing to the public is embarrassing. It’s dangerous and somebody is going to get hurt.” 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: When people take things out of context I always get worried. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes just reflecting on that answer I would like the Minister to develop it a bit further. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I do not know in what context that was taken but I am sure that most of the police in New Zealand are very satisfied. After all they have just had a salary settlement for the next 3 years. 
Ron Mark 
: When the Minister tells the nation that the police have all the resources they need to fight crime and implies that the shortfall is their fault is he saying that the failure of the police to secure from this Government 169 extra police as they requested in these documents and the three methamphetamine teams that they did not get—they received two—are the fault of the police too? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: No I am not. What I am saying is that the member does not understand that that was a request for funding over 4 years and we have delivered the first part of it. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Through you in the interests of not misleading the House—because the facts in those documents are very very clear—I request that the Minister be asked to rethink that reply. It was not over 4 years; it was over 3 years as stated in those documents. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not relevant. That is not a matter for a point of order. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a matter for a point of order. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Is it not an offence to deliberately mislead this House on a statement of fact? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes it is and the member knows how to raise that with me. If he wishes to do so it will be thoroughly investigated. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: If the police are so happy with their resources can the Minister explain to the House why 1000 police and their families turned out in protest just before Christmas? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Yes they turned out because they wanted an Auckland allowance. They are so happy that they settled their pay round for the next 3 years recently. 
Marc Alexander 
: Could the Minister explain whether the planned reduction in the Kilbirnie and Johnsonville rapid-response police units as an apparent consequence of officers being seconded to a new burglary unit is the result of the police not spending all the money they were given or is it because they have not been given sufficient resources to do both tasks? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: It is because the Wellington police see a need and they are answering it. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: When the Minister implies that the police do have all the resources and have failed to spend them is he aware that in the Counties-Manukau Police District which covers his own electorate crime is up by 8 percent in the last year and is he aware of the statement made by Detective Sergeant Middleton who operates in the Minister’s own electorate that there is “a direct correlation that can be drawn between increased crime and staff shortages”; what is his response to Detective Sergeant Middleton’s statement about his own electorate? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The last time I saw Detective Sergeant Middleton he was very happy because we had just opened a $2 million police station in my own electorate. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Perhaps the Minister could just develop the comment further on the question that was asked. 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: There have been staff shortages; everyone knows that. The police have now upped their strength and also have English police officers working in the Counties-Manukau Police District. They have been welcomed by the whole community. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek to table Mr Hawkin’s answer to the identical question on methamphetamine teams last week which is totally at variance with his answer today. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that statement. Is there any objection? There is.