Prime Willow-Jean; Rurawhe AdrianWILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour—Northland): Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to take a short call on the member's bill this evening the Secondhand Dealers and Pawnbrokers (Electronic Records) Amendment Bill and I have listened both in my office and in the House tonight to the whole debate. I've actually enjoyed hearing the local examples from the member who's just resumed his seat Paul Eagle but also from my colleague Arena Williams who of course is in South Auckland an area that has been the focus of some of the discussion tonight. I also enjoyed the contribution from Dr Emily Henderson. Of course she is my neighbouring electorate and I am very familiar with the store to which she was referring.As I was preparing for this debate this evening I was thinking about the huge number of second-hand dealers that we have across Northland. I myself actually really enjoy what we call hokohoko shopping or second-hand shopping—a very keen shopper there. I think about a number of the hokohoko shops that I would go into and my real assumption would be—and it is an assumption because I haven't had the time to actually go in and check but from the way that it's all set up the people who are running it my guess would be—that they aren't electronic. So you've already heard tonight Mr Bayly the reasons why Labour won't be supporting your bill—this one; you got support on the last one but in terms of this one—and it really is that concern that we have for the additional cost that it could impose on to our small businesses. Like I said there is a hokohoko shop in every community I can think of with a little township in Northland and I do worry that this could impose extra costs on them to modernise their systems which I just don't think many of them necessarily are. And while during COVID I was really pleased to see the support we were giving small businesses to try and digitise to click and collect and accommodate all of those I'm not too sure how many of our hokohoko shops have actually used that opportunity for their business. It would be something interesting to see.I think what I am struggling with in terms of the bill is using the blunt instrument of the law to try and achieve better systems and working relationships between the dealers and the police. So I do acknowledge the member when he said that he didn't just dream up this idea; that it was something that he had talked about in consultation with the Police—Andrew Bayly: No they asked for it.WILLOW-JEAN PRIME: Sorry—that they asked for it and that they thought that this was something that could help them do that job better but my simple response to that is that might be the case for the New Zealand Police but it's going to be at the cost of our small businesses in our communities. That's the bit that I struggle with because they would argue that they are paying taxes into our system and we are making decisions around the funding of the police and other things to be able to provide these services. I do think that the law is unclear about what exactly would meet the requirements of the Act in terms of which electronic system and one that can be used by the police. So that system could continually change and they might be required to continually update the software that they have and all of those costs that are associated with that.You did mention that it could be something as simple as taking a photo and supplying it electronically. I don't know that we need to have that in law to require them to do that and a possible penalty of $10000 if they don't comply with that when that could be a simple request from the police and voluntarily cooperatively that is something that they could do. So my concern is that to achieve the outcome that you're seeking using the blunt tool of the law and a $10000 fine for our small businesses I think is unjustified and something that I would find hard to go back into all of my small communities with their hokohoko shops and say that we really need you to do this in order for us to try and address this crime.Just finally in concluding this I do think about those who I have known all my life growing up and the member who said that they know who some of these people are and they work closely with the police—I would believe that's the same case in many of our communities too. Kia ora.DEPUTY SPEAKER: Andrew Bayly in reply.