Hipkins Chris: Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons)  Amendment Bill — First Reading 
Hipkins Chris: Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons)  Amendment Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:653;Page:2041] 
CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) 
: 
 I have been listening to the Government members opposite speaking on the Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons) Amendment Bill and I have yet to hear any of them put forward a real justification with any evidence of why this bill is necessary or why there will be any advantage in privatising our prisons. I have yet to hear them put anything forward. There has been no compelling justification. International evidence suggests that there is not any compelling justification. In fact this bill will do the opposite of what they claim it will do. The nearest we got was David Garrett arguing that it would be cheaper because the private prison operators could go around all the dairies in Auckland and buy all of their stale food that was past its use-by date and serve that to the prisoners. That was the closest we got to an argument in favour of the bill—that it would be cheaper because they could serve stale food to the prisoners. That was the nearest we got to an argument from the National - ACT - Maori Party Government on why it thinks it is a good idea to privatise our prisons. 
Is it not interesting how as the weeks roll on the sheep’s clothing starts to slip off more and more and the wolf beneath is revealed? This is yet another bullet in the National Government’s gun in its assault on our public services. It is another brick in the road toward privatisation which we know in their heart of hearts National members really support. Last year the National Party travelled the length and breadth of the country saying that if people voted for a change of Government not much would really change; there would be some new faces but not much else would change. But now we know that privatisation is still firmly part of the National Government’s agenda because National has not changed since Max Bradford carved up the electricity sector in the 1990s. It has not changed since it sold off New Zealand Rail in 1993 to crooks like Fay and Richwhite. It has not changed since it privatised the Wellington Airport and now it wants to privatise the prisons as well because that is what National Governments do—they privatise things. 
They do not call it privatising though. The Government is calling this one the “contract management of prisons”. That is a little bit like saying about the accident compensation scheme that it will not privatise the scheme but just open it up to competition which is effectively the same thing. The Government is being very tricky with words here in trying to deceive people into thinking that it is not privatising things when that is exactly what it is doing. The National Party is all about privatisation and this National - ACT - Maori Party Government has no mandate to do that because it went up and down the country last year saying that it would not privatise. Well that is exactly what it is doing with this bill. It is privatising. 
I can tell the House that my electorate of Rimutaka as the home of the largest prison in the country will have a keen interest in this bill. I am very proud to come from Rimutaka. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I am sorry to interrupt the member. Interjections should be rare and reasonable. There is a lot of noise. I would like to hear what the debater has to say. Please continue. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I have to say that the residents of Rimutaka will be very interested in this bill because we have had a rapid growth in the population of Rimutaka Prison in the last few years and I think that that is something the community is concerned about. There is absolutely nothing to celebrate about locking more people up in prison. There is absolutely nothing to celebrate about building more prison beds and more prison cells and locking more people up inside them. There is nothing to celebrate about the idea of turning the incarceration of criminals into a profit-making venture for private businesses which is exactly what this bill does. 
We know that the National Government is keen to start hocking off State assets. Because National members promised everyone they would not sell anything this term we know that their agenda in this term of Parliament is to get things all ready so that they can hock them off next time if they get the chance. They just cannot wait to do that. I can tell them that I have news for them—there will not be a second term for this National Government so they have nothing to worry about. They will not get to sell them off because the public of New Zealand do not support privatisation and they do not support the privatisation of our prisons. 
This bill is an integral part of the National Government’s agenda to shrink the size of the State and therefore to shrink away from ministerial responsibility. We can see it coming already: the first private prison escape the first murder in a private prison the first rape in a private prison. The Minister of Corrections “Crusher” Collins will stand up in this House talk tough— 
Hon Judith Collins 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is outside the Standing Orders to refer to members of this House by names other than their real names. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: That is correct. The member will call the Minister by her correct name or refer to her as “her”. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. The Minister will stand up in this House talk tough and say that it is not her problem it is the private prison company’s responsibility. That is what this is all about. It is about abdicating the State’s responsibility. Maintaining law and order is one of the most fundamental responsibilities of any Government and this Government thinks that it should be contracted out. The National - ACT - MaoriParty Government thinks that maintaining law and order is a Government responsibility that can be contracted out to the private sector. What is coming next? Will the police be next? Will the Government privatise the police force as well? Will it privatise the Defence Force? 
Grant Robertson 
: Will the Minister privatise the police force? 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Perhaps that would help her avoid the little issue she has in Upper Hutt where she is trying to do away with the Upper Hutt police force by merging it with the Lower Hutt police force which she is very quiet on. 
Private prisons are accountable only to their shareholders. Public prisons are morally and fiscally accountable to taxpayers and that is the way it should be. In their quest to turn a buck the private prison companies would be encouraged to cut costs and to cut corners. They would be cutting costs and cutting corners and serving food to prisoners that is past its use-by date. I tell the House right now that that is a bad thing and that the people of Rimutaka would not support the privatisation of their prison. 
I challenge Paul Quinn who is trying to interject to come out to the Hutt Valley—he might find it on a map—and tell those people why he thinks it is acceptable to privatise the management of Rimutaka Prison. He would not get a single vote in Rimutaka if he came out and said he thought that privatising Rimutaka Prison was a good idea. Private prisons would encourage the operators of prisons to cut costs and to cut corners. We would see a lower staff to inmate ratio much less of a focus on rehabilitation cuts in staff pay and conditions and cuts in the level of staff qualifications and staff training. Ultimately if it is about a profit they will cut costs wherever they possibly can. 
Overseas experience in Australia the United Kingdom the United States— 
Hon Judith Collins 
: Aw! 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: I know that the Government does not like evidence from overseas; it does not like any evidence at all. But the evidence shows there are huge flaws in private prison systems—ranging from bribery corruption and increased violence to increased drug abuse and avoidable suicides. The Government does not want to hear about any of that. 
Private prisons would create huge conflicts of interest. Where would be the incentive for prisoner rehabilitation when the company that incarcerates them has a financial incentive to keep them in there for as long as possible? As David Parker said prison management plays quite a significant role in determining who gets released who gets paroled and so forth. Yet the Government will try to create a profit-making incentive for those prisons to keep people in there as long as they possibly can. Surely we should be talking about ways to reduce the number of people we lock up. We should be focusing on the fence at the top of the cliff rather than putting more privatised prison buses at the bottom of the cliff which is what the Government seems interested in doing. 
There is no evidence that private prisons can be run more cheaply or more effectively. Although the cost per inmate may have been slightly less at the Auckland Central Remand Prison it did not have the larger costs associated with providing maximum security and it had fewer prison officers per inmate and paid them less than the Department of Corrections paid at other prisons throughout the country. The private prison provided a reduced service. It did not admit prisoners after 6.30 at night so if one was looking to having a prisoner admitted after 6.30 at night one would not go to any of the private prisons. Labour passed legislation in 2004 making jails solely the job of the Crown— 
H V Ross Robertson 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt my colleague but you have already on one occasion raised the issue of interjections being out of order unless they are rare reasonable and relevant. We have had a continual barrage from the other side of the House which is not permitted in the debating chamber. The members should come to order. If they want to make a speech they should take the opportunity next time and do so. That is covered by a ruling from Speaker Statham in 1923. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Thank you for those comments. 
CHRIS HIPKINS 
: Labour believes that prisons are a public service. National does not. Labour believes in public services is opposed to privatisation and will not support the bill. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Before I call the next speaker I refer to the points that were made earlier about interjections. They should be rare and reasonable. Although it can be a robust debate I ask members to keep the level of noise down because other members do want to hear what is being said.