Smith NickHon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson): If the Minister in the chair Andrew Little had actually listened to the voice of victims he would've taken a very different perspective because at the select committee stage of this bill we heard from numerous organisations representing victims saying actually part of our criminal justice system is about freedom. When you are locked up in a prison you lose the freedom of association; you lose the freedom of movement; you lose the freedom to be able to have imparted information; and equally so you lose the right to vote. In the eyes of victims actually this Government is far more preoccupied with the rights of criminal offenders than it is with those that are the victims of crime.Now the Minister also made reference to the legislative principles around this bill. His problem is that this bill does not resolve the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act issues that actually—and the Labour Party in submissions at the Justice Committee argued that every offender every person in prison should be able to vote. In fact a number of branches of the Labour Party appeared before the committee. You could take it to the logical extreme where the appalling offender who has subsequently pleaded guilty to the killing of 51 people in the grotesque act that occurred at the Christchurch mosques—and the puritans in the Labour Party argue that that man should be entitled to vote in our elections. We say no that's incorrect that people who are in jail are in jail for a reason.I also want to move away from the Minister's sort of idealistic position that those in prison are somehow—they've committed one offence you know they made a bit of an error and we shouldn't hold it against them. For goodness' sake! We heard at the select committee that the average—Brett Hudson: They're not there for stealing a Moro bar.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: That's right. I say to my colleague our spokesperson for police—soon to be Minister of Police—that actually 24 offences that's the average number. It's not like these people haven't been given a second chance. In fact the law which this party agrees with is that prison should be the last resort not the first resort for judges when they're dealing with criminal offenders. The honest truth is those that are in jail are people that have committed multiple offences against the law of the land and we heard evidence at the select committee that in fact 24 criminal offences is the average number for—Rt Hon David Carter: The average?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: That's the average. We had one guy before the committee where it was over 120 offences—Rt Hon David Carter: And they want to give them the vote—they want to give them the vote?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: —and they say that those people should be entitled to vote. I say to my good friend and colleague David Carter: they are desperate for votes. They have for 2½ years been chasing the votes of criminals. They don't care about the rights of victims. They don't care about the basic standards that we expect in our community. It is simply a crude grab for power by which they think they can score a few thousand more votes. The political strategy is flawed.I particularly want to refer to the New Zealand First Party. The New Zealand First Party—just go on Facebook; they are horrified. If they look in the mirror on 20 September and they want to know why they have been ejected from this place they need look no further than their support for this bill. This is anathema to the hard law and order approach and I invite those New Zealand First MPs opposite to talk to their party members about what they think about giving votes to prisoners. What it shows is not just with this part but an overall approach by this Government that is soft on crime.The last bit I want to address in this part is the practical issues for our prisons in providing for the right to vote. I was privileged for a period to be the Minister of Corrections and at that time it was actually really difficult practically to provide for prisoners to vote. For instance only MPs are allowed within the premises of prisons. So is it fair in a democratic system that members of Parliament the incumbents can go into prisons and campaign for votes but not candidates who are seeking the support in those particular electorates? I think that's a pretty fundamental right that all candidates have a fair crack. I also believe that a really important part of the political process is being able to ask questions to receive information to have free access to the internet and read all the different ranges of political opinions because what will flow from this bill is next minute you will have criminals appealing: Well I've got the right to vote; well I should be able to on Facebook. I should be able to express views on laws. I should be able to impart freely information." Well look I know—and you only need look at the mess that occurred when the man who's pled guilty to the Christchurch mosques was able to freely write letters. It speaks volumes of the attitude of the current Government: all about the rights of criminals and not about the rights of victims and the important part that actually punishment plays in our criminal justice system.I do raise a real question about the practicality of serving prisoners being able to vote given the degree to which we logically and properly extensively restrict the freedoms of those people. Now there are jurisdictions around the world—the bulk of them in the United States—where if you are convicted of a felony you never get to vote again in your life. Now National is absolutely of a view that that is wrong. We are of that old-fashioned perspective that says if you do the crime you do the time; when you've done your time you regain all your rights as a citizen. That is the proper balanced position that this National Party has taken for many many years on this issue.Darroch Ball: How many years—how many years?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I reflect—well I reflect on the vast bulk of New Zealand's history to New Zealand First. The bulk of New Zealand's history—Darroch Ball: In fact that member was here in 1993 when the Electoral Act was voted for this legislation.Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Well I'd love New Zealand First to take a call. I'll make a bet with my mate David Carter: New Zealand First will not take a call on this bill because this bill is a suicide note from the New Zealand First Party. I cannot find a New Zealand First supporter anywhere from Invercargill to Bluff who has said "I like prisoners being able to vote. I want to be soft on crime. New Zealand First's mandate is to be soft on crime and to vote for a bill that will give prisoners the vote." I say to that New Zealand First member of Parliament: prepare for and enjoy your last few weeks in Parliament because your support for this bill is one of the reasons that your party is so low in the polls and is going to be rejected by the people of New Zealand on 19 September.You see we do support prisoners having done their time being able to get easily back on the roll. I actually indicated at the select committee that there is a sort of an academic argument as to whether the practical mechanism is that you allow prisoners to stay on the roll but not be able to exercise that voting right while they are in prison rather than this business of actually tossing them off the roll and then going through the bureaucratic process of putting them back on. I actually think the practical provisions of our electoral law would actually have them remaining on the roll but while they are serving time in prison for those practical and principal reasons that I've set out not being able to cast a vote. That's the law in the mother of all parliaments in the UK; that is the case in many jurisdictions around the world; and we actually think it is the practical balanced perspective that if you offend the laws of the land and you can't respect them you surrender your right for your term of prison to actually be able to practically participate in the enormous privilege we have to be part of this democracy in New Zealand. That is why National opposes Part 1 of this bill."