Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNorman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 21 August 2013. Volume:692;Page:12664. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]5.Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green)to theMinister for State Owned Enterprises: Did officials provide the Government with an estimate of the cost to the Crown in foregone interest of allowing retail buyers of Meridian Energy shares to pay for their shares in instalments; if so what was that estimate?Hon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises):No because any such estimate would be affected by many factors particularly the share price which has yet to be set. Our commercial advice is that instalment receipts will increase demand and widespread New Zealand ownership. Investors will as the Minister of Finance said take this into account in terms of price and demand.Dr Russel Norman: So is the Minister telling us that this policy is uncosted that Treasury provided no band as to what the cost of these interest-free loans may be and that the Government is going to proceed down this path despite having no idea as to the cost?Hon TONY RYALL: As I explained in my primary answer and as the Deputy Prime Minister the Minister of Finance said in his answer the reason why there is no estimate is due to the myriad of factors that would support this. As the Minister of Finance says investors will take this into account in terms of price and demand as I am sure New Zealanders will take into account the fact that this provides them with an opportunity to invest in a very long-term business and to release cash that can be used to invest in important social infrastructure like schools roads and hospitals.Dr Russel Norman: If the Government has no idea as to the cost of this policy how could it conduct a rational benefit versus cost analysis of this policy if it has absolutely no idea as to the cost of the policy?Hon TONY RYALL: Of course what the Government measures this against is our oft-stated policy about the mixed-ownership model programme and the benefits that will flow to New Zealand from that in terms of wider New Zealand ownership deepening the capital markets and providing revenue and capital that can be used to invest in schools roads and hospitals. I have to say that as I travel around NewZealand people are excited about the opportunities to have more capital to invest in social infrastructure.Dr Russel Norman: Can he confirm that large retail investors like the 400 that bought an average of a quarter of a million dollars’ worth of Mighty River Power shares will effectively be getting a $100000 interest-free loan under this policy which is effectively a gift worth about $8000 to $10000 to them from the rest of New Zealand?Hon Craig Foss: No one’s bought anything yet.Hon TONY RYALL: As Mr Foss says no one has bought anything yet because the shares have yet to be floated. But what I can tell the member is that instalment receipts will provide an opportunity for New Zealanders to take a potentially bigger stake in Meridian Energy than they might have previously. What it will do for all New Zealand is free up cash that we can make available through the Future Investment Fund for important infrastructure like schools roads and hospitals. In my other ministerial portfolio I am very pleased that there will be over $420 million for the Christchurch city hospitals.Dr Russel Norman: What is the ethical or moral basis for a policy in which ordinary New Zealand families who are struggling to save to buy a home for example are forced to contribute gifts to wealthy investors who can afford to stump up with $250000 to buy shares in this company? Why should ordinary New Zealand families have to gift these people $10000?Hon TONY RYALL: I do not think the member should consider that this is gifting anything to anybody. The member seems to have the basis that everything has to match a certain group of people. Well actually the $426 million going into Christchurch Hospital will benefit 10 percent of the population but the other 90 percent are happy to make that social investment because it is part of building our nation’s infrastructure. We are on the side of nation-building not destruction like that party is.Dr Russel Norman: Does he dispute any of this summary of the asset sale programme to date: first Treasury warned that there would be no significant economic gains from the sales and they would permanently increase the Government deficit; then Solid Energy turned out to be unfit to sell Mighty River Power sold for less than was expected and only half the New Zealand buyers who were forecast to show up—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption ] Order! The member will resume his seat. The member needs to refer to Standing Order 377 as to the content of questions. That question is now becoming very long—a summary of a lot of events—which breaches the Standing Order. I invite the member to curtail his question and ask a question that is in line with the Standing Orders.Dr Russel Norman: Does he dispute the summary of the asset sale programme which includes a number of matters of failed policy on the Government’s behalf and ends with this Government now forking out over tens of millions of dollars of taxpayers’ money in a desperate bid to bribe people to buy Meridian Energy shares?Hon TONY RYALL: Yes.