Rutherford Tom; Brooking Rachel; Smith StuartTOM RUTHERFORD (National—Bay of Plenty): Oh Mr Chair—fantastic. I'm keen to talk further about the point that the member Mr Stuart Smith raised in his response there particularly around the Amendment Paper put forward by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb around amending clause 4 and the outline that Mr Webb has put in around an amendment in the sense that the retail premises are located no more than 10 kilometres from where the main ingredients were grown or the wine was manufactured. Now I'm interested to hear your perspective on that Stuart particularly because I can think of a couple of circumstances where you have the winery in a particular location and you may have the tastings done somewhere else. An arbitrary 10-kilometre radius actually may not fit be fit for purpose from one location to the next.Hon Dr Duncan Webb: Tell that to the Champagne region.TOM RUTHERFORD: Excuse me?Hon Dr Duncan Webb: Tell that to the Champagne region.CHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono): Direct your comments to the Chair.TOM RUTHERFORD: Yeah thank you. Yeah I will direct my comments to the Chair absolutely.CHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono): Thank you.TOM RUTHERFORD: I'll just have to ignore what's taking place on the other side of the Chamber. So I'm keen to know: is the 10-kilometre radius actually functional and workable here in New Zealand or is it just setting an arbitrary location and distance that actually couldn't be worked for our local communities and our cellar doors and their tastings?Hon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour—Dunedin): On this point of the nexus I'm also interested in this and I think the committee would benefit from the member Stuart Smith expanding on this definition of winery cellar door. The member has already explained that the licensing authority in clause 7 has to have an opinion about this and he's explained that well but it goes back then to the definition of winery cellar door. So that means retail premises operated by a person for the purpose of selling grape wine … that is made by or on behalf of that person (a) on those retail premises;"—so that's easy—"or (b) from produce harvested from land occupied by that person". I think the concern that's coming is about how that licensing officer—who's got to have the opinion in clause 7—is going to interpret "from produce harvested on land occupied by that person".So for instance it might be useful to have some examples. We've heard about Champagne but of course the far superior wine-growing region in the world is Central Otago as we should all agree to. So if you have a wine grown—say a very fine Pinot Noir in Bannockburn—and you are selling that in Queenstown or somewhere on the road nearby does the member imagine that that would count as a winery cellar door? Whereas if you have that same glorious Pinot Noir grown in Bannockburn being sold in Auckland in the viaduct—what is the proximity that the member imagines would be under consideration by that licensing officer?STUART SMITH (National—Kaikōura): Thank you Mr Chair. Well firstly to Tom Rutherford's question—that a very good question. We had evidence from Olivia Doonan from Tūpari Wines and their vineyard's in the Awatere Valley and it's quite remote. They have a cellar door in the railway station at Seddon which is 13 kilometres away. So if it was a 10-kilometre radius—Tom Rutherford: They'd be crippled.STUART SMITH: Exactly. Often vineyards can be owned by the same person growing for the same winery and they can be more than 10 kilometres apart. So where does the radius start? Where do you centre that that radius? You know would it be the closest corner of a vineyard which may not even have the wine from some of the grapes come to go in all of the wines—maybe it only goes in parts of the wines. So it becomes a bureaucratic nightmare. I think this is really clear and I have no concern at all that someone could grow grapes say in Marlborough and open a cellar door in the viaduct in Auckland. I think that no self-respecting alcohol officer would allow that—now I think that's crazy. Try and take it as a—like a bar for example you're only allowed to sell 35 millilitre tastings. You're charging for a 35 millilitre tasting of wine. If you want to lose money pretty quickly that would be a good way to do it. So I think there's no way that that would be a sensible business.Hon Rachel Brooking: And Queenstown from Bannockburn?STUART SMITH: Well Queenstown and Bannockburn is probably a bit far I would have thought. But I would have thought Bannockburn and then on the road at Cromwell would be quite acceptable. But as the law states I think that would be quite acceptable. I think that's quite fair quite frankly—it stays within the spirit of it. It wouldn't be in the Octagon."