12. Question No. 12—Local GovernmentCELIA WADE-BROWN (Green) to the Minister of Local GovernmentQuestion No. 12—Local Government12. CELIA WADE-BROWN (Green) to the Minister of Local Government: Is he concerned that over 50 of the country's mayors and regional council chairpeople have signed an open letter opposing mandatory referendums for Māori wards; if so why is he introducing legislation that directly overrides local government?Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government): No I am not concerned. The Government is committed to local democracy. We're not removing the right to establish Māori wards. However we want each community to decide whether they want one or not. This is a decision for local people in local communities to make their own decisions about local representation and my message to those mayors is: what's wrong with some localism—letting local communities make decisions for once? [Interruption]SPEAKER: Just wait—it will come quiet shortly—OK.Celia Wade-Brown: Does he consider it reasonable for councils who have already consulted and voted on Māori wards to have mandatory referendums when councils have stated that the costs of these referendums will be worn by ratepayers; if so how does this reflect the Government's supposed commitment to responsible spending?Hon SIMEON BROWN: Well this Government will be ensuring that councils can have those referendums at the same time as the next election for local councils. And so the voters will be able to vote for their mayor and their councillors at the same time as voting for whether or not they want to retain those mayors. And I say once again to members on the other side of the House: what's wrong with some democracy? Because clearly they don't believe in that on the other side of the House. [Interruption]Celia Wade-Brown: How does he respond—SPEAKER: Just hold up a bit it. OK now it's quiet.Celia Wade-Brown: Thank you. How does he respond to Hastings Mayor Sandra Hazelhurst: This should not be central government-led. Local councils and communities should be trusted to determine what the best representation for their—"[Interruption] Shall I start again Mr Speaker?SPEAKER: Yes you can start again because questions are heard in silence.Celia Wade-Brown: How does he respond to Hastings Mayor Sandra Hazlehurst: "This should not be central government-led. Local councils and communities should be trusted to determine what the best representation for their community is."?Hon SIMEON BROWN: Well I thank the former Her Worship for the patsy question. Ultimately we trust local communities to make these decisions. We agree local communities through the ballot box should be able to make decisions. We are going to entrust local communities to be able to vote on whether or not they should retain or not Māori wards in their communities. What's wrong with some democracy?Celia Wade-Brown: How many other representation decisions will he require compulsory referendums for—for the number of councillors for rural wards for the boundaries or is it only Māori wards?Hon SIMEON BROWN: As the member knows what we're doing here is we're requiring those councils which put in place these wards without a referendum to have a referendum. Following that if a council wishes to put in place a Māori ward petitioners can petition for a referendum. But ultimately councils when they're setting up other wards their checks and balances are in place with the Local Government Commission having those checks and balances. And I would encourage local councils if there are issues that they also wish to put to referendum put them to referendum.Celia Wade-Brown: Is he aware that the advice he received on this bill from the Department of Internal Affairs stated that the polls proved to be an almost insurmountable barrier to establishing Māori wards and if so is this a deliberate tactic to reduce Māori representation in local government?Hon SIMEON BROWN: Ultimately this is about local democracy local communities making a decision on whether or not to have a ward based upon ethnicity. That is a major constitutional change for a council and ultimately on this side of the House we're of the view that communities should make those significant decisions rather than the council. And what's wrong with a little bit of democracy? Those councils should be right behind this actually supporting their communities being able to have their say.Celia Wade-Brown: Does he believe that consulting with affected parties is crucial when developing legislation and if so why was this not done with local government representatives as indicated in the regulatory impact statement?Hon SIMEON BROWN: There was a thing on 14 October called an election and the parties on this side of the House went out and campaigned on this policy and the public all five and a half million New Zealanders—or not all of them could have a vote—but all five and a half million New Zealanders were able to be part of a national conversation. They'll all be able to have their say one day. And ultimately they decided on 14 October to elect the Government. And what we're doing is implementing the policy that we were elected to do and then giving local communities the ability to have their say."