Nash StuartHon STUART NASH (Minister of Police): Madam Chair thank you very much. I think Mr Smith it was 19 March. I think it was 19 March but it was certainly around that date that police themselves put out a press release saying that they believed all the processes were followed. Now what we have seen on the front page of the New Zealand Herald yesterday is an aggrieved ex-officer who came out and said without any evidence that he does not believe the process was followed. So what we've got is the police saying they do believe the process was followed. So I heard about a week after the Christchurch terrorist killed 51 people that the police believed the proper process was followed. Ms Collins made a couple of points I would like to reiterate—or answer I should say. Ms Collins stated that a police officer who is an arms officer or who is administering the Arms Act—that's not a route to be the Commissioner of Police and why would anyone want to do it? That was her inference. Well the Minister is a former—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): Sorry to interrupt the member.Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. The process of yielding is for the purposes of answering the specific question of when he knew.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): That's not a point of order. The Hon Stuart Nash has got the call and he has up to five minutes. You understand the new process of to-ing and fro-ing that speeches are no longer limited to five minutes. You can take shorter speeches have your question addressed. If you feel the Minister hasn't addressed your question you'll have another opportunity to raise that in your next call.Hon Dr Nick Smith: No no that is not—the process of yielding is to enable the Minister to specifically address that question. He is entitled to continue his call in respect of the issue of which I yielded on; he is not entitled to then hop off and just take a general—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): The Hon Stuart Nash.Hon STUART NASH: Thank you Madam Chair. What I would say to the former Minister of Police Judith Collins is she is well aware that some of our most effective community officers are those who are ingrained in the communities and have been there for ever. Not everyone wants to be the Commissioner of Police. I think those officers who are out there every single day administering the Arms Act actually do their very best. They are committed to getting this right. I also agree with Mr Ron Mark though that in fact putting this into an independent authority is in fact the right thing to do and it's why we've committed to do that. A couple of questions from Mr Seymour. Mr Seymour asked me if in fact the law as it stands as opposed to the legislation in front of ourselves is not fit for purpose. Well Mr Seymour it's not. That's why we're here. Have a look at clause 36. Take a look at that. Under that the Christchurch terrorist would not have received his current licence. It's why we are here today because the 1983 legislation—Brett Hudson: The police didn't know that Mr Nash.Hon STUART NASH: —is not fit for purpose Mr Hudson. It's why we are here today. The other thing I would say—Hon Dr Nick Smith: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): I hope it's not the same point of order.Hon Dr Nick Smith: I wish to refer to Speakers' ruling 56/2 and you may want to refer to it in the Chamber. I'll read to you what it says: When a member yields to another the member given the floor may refer only to the matter raised by the member yielding. A member yielding yields the member's time to the other member." It's quite explicit that when I agreed to yield to Minister Nash it was specifically about the question of the timing. The Speakers' rulings are very very clear and I ask you simply to enforce the rules of the House. CHAIRPERSON (Hon Ruth Dyson): Quite correct. So the Minister's time is up."