Bayly AndrewANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): Oh thank you Madam Chair. I was just hoping that some of the members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee from the other side were going to make a contribution so sorry for the delay. I do acknowledge that Ms Edmonds is doing contributions. She seems to be holding up the flag for the Government in supporting this bill tonight. I'm just wondering where our good chair is tonight. I see him sitting over there the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I'm hoping he's going to make a contribution.Hon Member: Head down. ANDREW BAYLY: Head down—I don't know what he's doing. This is the theme today which is how we're going to tax more people today. Tim van de Molen: Desperate for a call. ANDREW BAYLY: Desperate for a call and hopefully he might given he is the chair and normally plays a part in any tax bill. It's very rare that they don't. I'm worried because I think this Minister of Revenue is going to go down as a mean-spirited person. I know at a personal level he's not but you—and when I say you" I'm referring to Minister Parker of course not Madam Chair. She's a lovely person. But I'm finding the Minister's principles about the way he's approaching tax tonight to be concerning. If we were in normality I could probably understand the approach that he is adopting but we are not. We are in a situation where we've got many thousands of businesses facing the likelihood of having to close their doors and having to fire remove release many employees that will be valued people that they've worked with over time and I think there are times when Governments need to smell the roses look at what's happening around the world and look at what's happening in New Zealand. I'm concerned that we're ending up with a tax bill that is one that is deeply unfair. I'd urge the Minister to reflect on this going forward because already today the amendments that have been discussed are quite wide ranging around housing—and I know we're not talking about this in Part 3 and I'm going to get to that but I think there is an issue with the approach of the Minister. I just really want to turn to something a bit different. The unclaimed money aspects of this Part 3 are quite detailed and are quite important—David Seymour: Tell us all about it please. ANDREW BAYLY: —because if you look at clause 100D—and I'm sure fortunately I think Mr Damien Smith has been following this very closely actually in finance and expenditure. But the unclaimed portion relates to money that hasn't been captured or claimed in excess of $100 so it could be quite substantial amounts of money and there's a new definition of what that means. It refers to "A person firm body or institution … who holds or owes an amount of money is the holder of that money under this subsection if— … the money is not unclaimed … if the money is excluded from being unclaimed [or] the elective holder chooses to be treated as the holder of the money." My point here is there's an element in here that I don't understand. I wish I'd discussed it more at the select committee but as was alluded to before this bill has been rushed through the select committee and then we get dumped with this big Supplementary Order Paper 23 today which makes this effort somewhat wasted in many respects. But the issue—Tim van de Molen: Chin up. ANDREW BAYLY: I know I've got to chin up yes but it's the hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders I'm more worried about and I'm sure they don't have their chin up. They will be watching this debate with much interest thinking how much money they've lost tonight and what they're going to do with their houses that they're going to have to sell and pay a lot of tax on. But I want to just refer to new section 4(5) in clause 100D. It says "Money payable by a holder to an owner does not meet the requirements … if the money is payable—(a) as a dividend by the holder as a company to the owner as a shareholder" and also the second part paragraph (b): "as a rebate by the holder as a mutual association to the owner as a member in relation to the trading transactions of the member". Sorry Minister it is quite an important aspect because we want to make sure that people are entitled to get their unclaimed money. I think there's a lot of improvements in the bill—I fully accept that—but there's an element in here that probably needs elucidating."