Cosgrove Clayton: Taxation (Annual Rates Maori Organisations Taxpayer Compliance and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — Second Reading 
Cosgrove Clayton: Taxation (Annual Rates Maori Organisations Taxpayer Compliance and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill — Second Reading 
[Volume:606;Page:3898] 
CLAYTON COSGROVE (NZ Labour—Waimakariri) 
: 
 That was an amazing speech for a number of reasons. First for the first time in history David Carter admitted that Bill English did sack him as the Opposition spokesperson on finance—and after that contribution is it any wonder? The other startling thing in this debate is that the Minister of Finance got up—it is his bill—and spoke but there was no call from Don Brash the Opposition spokesperson on finance the one who blew David Carter away the one Bill English put in ahead of David Carter. I invite Don Brash the Opposition spokesperson on finance to get up and take a call. 
We heard some contributions from Dr Lockwood Smith and David Carter that basically dealt with two concepts. The first was the issue of high tax. They rabbited on about how allegedly New Zealanders are overtaxed. Dr Lockwood Smith said—I think this was the phrase he used—that these taxes impact on working-class New Zealanders. But he never acknowledged that a significant positive impact on working people and people down on their luck is what Governments do with their tax revenue. Governments can provide for example State housing—which that mob sold off—decent health-care and social services. That also has on the revenue side a positive impact on working people down on their luck. 
Lindsay Tisch 
: There are people living in caravans now. 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: The gnome at the end of the garden who keeps interjecting on me should actually stop take a breath and listen. The other issue that the National Party members raised in a sort of a race to win the redneck constituency was that Maori based on race are getting a better tax deal. I will make two points about that. 
Lindsay Tisch 
: Well they are. 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: I make two points to “Papa Smurf” over there. One is that a special tax rate for Maori has been around since 1939 and there has been the odd National Government in power since 1939. Why is there a special tax rate? Put simply—and I know that the scales will fall from that member’s eyes—it is because Maori authorities are different from commercial private sector entities. Why? They have constraints on them that other commercial private sector entities do not. Mr Tisch says he is a businessman. I say: “Wakey wakey! Prove it to us.” 
What are some of the constraints? Communal ownership is a constraint. Mr Tisch owns a business. If he wants to dispose of his business or his assets—and if his shareholders knew who were running it they would probably want that to happen—he can sell them. A Maori authority does not have that ability. Yes it has shareholders and yes it has beneficiaries of those assets but they are communally owned. I say again to that member: “Wakey wakey! Get the concept!”. Those authorities cannot dispose of the assets. They have certain commercial constraints on them. They cannot market their assets as that member can with his estate or his business or whatever he has. Therefore there is a disadvantage. 
I ask that member this: why if that policy is so wrong did his Government and subsequent National Governments since 1939 not correct it? Why did Dr Lockwood Smith who was in Government when there was a special tax rate not stand up then and make the lofty redneck speech he made today? Because deep down he knows that this policy is right. He sat on the Finance and Expenditure Committee and I was chairman and he made a positive contribution—more positive than he did today I have to say. He knows that this is right because of the constraints on Maori authorities. [ 
Interruption 
] 
I say to Mr Tisch who is interjecting that I am dumbfounded that we have not heard from Dr Brash. Maybe the reason that he has not taken a call today is that unlike Mr David Carter a member of the C team and unlike Dr Lockwood Smith he actually deep down believes that this policy is right. Deep down he believes and understands—unlike Mr Tisch Mr Carter and Dr Smith—that this is appropriate because he understands the commercial constraints put on Maori authorities. 
I say in conclusion that we have been attacked because of tax rates. The only solution that the National Party put out today in response to interjections from our side was a flat tax.  
Lindsay Tisch 
: Lower all taxes. 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Say it again so that the people can hear! Mr Tisch says: “Lower all taxes.”—a flat tax. That is exactly the policy for which National was done over by the electorate the policy that the people of New Zealand rejected—not once but twice. They will do so a third a fourth and a fifth time and for ever more. [ 
Interruption 
] The ACT party member joins the cry for a flat tax; his leader wants one as well and that is why he has only seven or eight and a half or nine members or whatever it is. 
One fact that the National Party will never stand up and acknowledge is that regardless of what it says about our tax rates we have achieved growth of 3.9 percent one of the best in the OECD— 
Lindsay Tisch 
: Ha ha! 
CLAYTON COSGROVE 
: Mr Tisch laughs. I thought he was a man with some commercial and economic acumen. Obviously that notion has been blown away. 
We have created 123000 new jobs. Unemployment is at a 20-year low—4.9 percent. I come back to it: we get criticised by National members for our tax rates but there is no policy solution from them. They fail to acknowledge that the more important thing is not the tax rate but what a Government does with the tax what it does to redeploy that revenue to our communities where it is needed—to our working people through housing the health system and social services and so on. That outfit across the floor—I say “outfit” because it is not really a political party—never did that in 9 years and that is why—[ 
Interruption 
] 
I can handle “Papa Smurf’s” interjections—no problem. I relish them because every time he interjects he shows his ignorance and every time he interjects he puts another nail into the National Party coffin because he has learnt nothing and his party has learnt nothing. The people told that member twice in two elections that they reject a flat tax that they reject his policy. But no National members have nailed their colours to the mast. I as a Labour Party member am pleased they have. I really am rapt they have not changed their policy. They have changed their spokesperson on finance three times and the failed one got up to take the call on this bill. He is the one who spent only 5 minutes on the select committee the failed one the one who got sacked. Dr Brash has not got up and taken a call yet he is the Opposition spokesperson on finance. He may well want to get up and take a call because I think there is a shred of decency in Dr Brash. Probably the reason that he has not taken a call is that he actually agrees with this bill. 
I commend the bill to the House. I think it is sound legislation. I endorse Mr Copeland’s speech and he made a fantastic contribution to the select committee. I hope we can get away from the redneck racist despicable sorts of antics that we have seen in this House and actually talk about some solutions and the positive nature of this bill. I endorse the bill.