Hughes Darren: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Hughes Darren: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:666;Page:13646] 
4. 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Transport 
: Has he read the report  
Alcohol and other drug use in New Zealand drivers 2004-2009  
by Environmental Science and Research Ltd prepared for New Zealand Police; if so is he aware that it contains data showing the number of fatalities for drivers with a blood-alcohol level above 50 mg but below 80 mg/100ml? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport) 
: 
 Yes I have. An interim version of the report was cited in the Safer Journeys document released in March of this year. The report tested drivers killed in accidents over that period whose blood samples were sent to Environmental Science and Research Ltd and it showed that 21 of them or four per year had an alcohol level of between 0.05 and 0.08. That number is actually surprisingly small and is one of the numbers used by opponents of a change. However it does not include the road toll impact of drivers with an alcohol level of between 0.05 and 0.08 who survive their accidents. That data is not complete because there is no law allowing police to collect that information. That is the very reason why more comprehensive research is required and why we are changing the law to allow this research to take place. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Why did he allow—commendably on his part—New Zealand research like the report we are mentioning here today to act on drug-driving but not allow New Zealand research like this to lower the alcohol limit for driving? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Because as I just explained to the member the research is incomplete. That research provides information on people who have fatal accidents and are fatally injured themselves but it does not provide information on the wider issue of the number of people with an alcohol level of between 0.05 and 0.08 who are involved in an accident. We cannot legally currently collect that data. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Has he met or asked to meet Dr Helen Poulsen who wrote the report for Environmental Science and Research Ltd and the police this year a report that is clearly research using New Zealand data about New Zealand drivers on New Zealand roads? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I have not sought to meet the researcher. I have read the information and the information is quite clear. It provides good information on drivers who are fatally injured in accidents. But as I keep repeating to the member—and I can say it as often as he would like me to say it—the reality is that we do not have research on drivers who survive accidents and have blood-alcohol levels between 0.05 and 0.08. According to this report the number of people killed in accidents with those levels of alcohol in their blood is roughly four per year. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Is it still his position that 64 percent public support for lowering the alcohol limit for driving is not enough and that he needs it to be 75 percent before he would support my bill to act on this issue as he said on radio recently? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Once again it is quite hard to take the criticism from the other side of the House particularly given the long list of things we are doing in this area. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. In my questions today and on previous days I have worked very hard to stay clear of party politics and all the usual things we do in questions. All I have asked the Minister is whether it is still his position that 64 percent is not enough and that 75 percent is necessary as he said on radio. I do not think it is reasonable that I having gone to some effort to keep a partisan nature out of the questions get answers like that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am sure the Minister will come quickly to the question asked. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: As I said it is hard to take that criticism because of the 9 years of inactivity on this matter from members on the other side of the House. The point is that there needs firstly to be a clear understanding of the harm being caused by drivers with blood-alcohol levels of between 0.05 and 0.08 and no matter how many times the member asks that question data is not available on drivers with those levels who survive accidents. Secondly lowering the alcohol limit does require broad public support. All the measures we have taken and there are a significant number—the cellphone rule change the illegal street racing legislation the decision to raise the driving age to 16 the drug-driving legislation the nil-alcohol limit for recidivist drink-drivers and young drivers— 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Indeed I have congratulated the Minister on some of those initiatives but I am not any clearer on whether it is his position that there needs to be 75 percent public support before he will support this measure as he said on radio. That is the question I am asking him. Is it the position of the Government that opinion polls have to show 75 percent support for lowering the alcohol limit for drivers before he will support my bill? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister indicated that it would need a high level of support. I accept that he may not have exactly confirmed that it would need 75 percent support but I cannot force a Minister to confirm something like that. The member has asked his question the Minister has given his position and I cannot force him to answer beyond that on that question. People can draw their own conclusions as to whether a high level of support reaches that point. I do not think it is reasonable for the Speaker to try to force the Minister to answer beyond that.