7. Question No. 7—Building and ConstructionSCOTT WILLIS (Green) to the Minister for Building and ConstructionQuestion No. 7—Building and Construction7. SCOTT WILLIS (Green) to the Minister for Building and Construction: Are new houses in New Zealand too well insulated; if not why is he considering rolling back insulation standards?Hon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Building and Construction): To the second part of the question no decisions have been made by the Government in terms of whether there needs to be changes in settings to clause H1 of The Building Code. To the first part of the question I wouldn't say that houses in New Zealand are too well insulated—the older stock certainly are far too far under-insulated—but I would note however and I would be surprised if any member of this House disagreed that housing in New Zealand is far too expensive. It is unaffordable for many Kiwi families to be able to afford a home which is why we have the homelessness problem in this country. As Minister I have heard significant concerns from a range of people who are actually building houses—unlike those members opposite who merely pontificated on the subject—about the practical realities of implementing the new energy-efficiency standards. That is why I have asked Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment (MBIE) officials to investigate the way that these are being practically implemented and the implications such as the additional cost the role that choice should play and also counter-productive effects such as moisture build-up due to additional insulation being required in roofing.Scott Willis: Supplementary.SPEAKER: We'll just wait until the House settles a bit—too much interjection on that one.Scott Willis: Does the Minister accept that increases of less than 1 percent of overall building costs to save 40 percent on heating costs is a winning investment for reducing household living costs improving health and wellbeing and conserving energy to help decarbonise our economy?Hon CHRIS PENK: The figures that the member has cited are hotly contested—if you'll excuse the pun—at best. People who are actively engaged in building homes in this country have frequently said to me that the costs are far more often in the range of $35000 to $50000.Chlöe Swarbrick: Give us a name.Hon CHRIS PENK: I will give you a name of a person who has said that. I quote for example construction sector adviser Mike Blackburn who was quoted recently in the media as saying Most builders that I have spoken to on this confirmed the $35000 to $50000 increase in building costs. These costs are passed on to the homeowner."Hon David Seymour: If a mere 1 percent increase in building costs could save 40 percent on the price of heating why would the Government have needed to regulate people to do it in the first place; is it because they think New Zealanders are a bit dim?Hon CHRIS PENK: The question is an astute one because it actually goes to the question of incentives versus mandating. The member points out in effect in his question that if the financial and other incentives are such that people wish to choose to make those decisions when they are building a home then they are free to do so. [Interruption]SPEAKER: We're about to go into hearing questions in silence. It's just getting a bit over the top.Scott Willis: Thank you Mr Speaker. I certainly appreciated the Minister's reckons. But does the Minister respect the expertise of the Construction Industry Council Master Builders Community Housing Aotearoa the Building Industry Federation the Institute of Architects the Green Building Council Community Energy Network Insulation Association of New Zealand and the Building Research Association who all support the successful H1 insulation standards not reckons? SPEAKER: The Minister can answer one of those questions.Hon CHRIS PENK: Thank you Mr Speaker. I appreciate the different perspectives and interests of a range of different key players in the building sector including those who are actually building homes of course and I don't think it's particularly appropriate for the member to dismiss those views as mere reckons. Obviously he can say whatever he likes in terms of my ability to process those points of view. But the fact of the matter is that unless we engage broadly across the sector and listen to the feedback that is being provided in the real world about the practical realities of implementing this policy well intentioned as it may have been we'll be no further ahead either in terms of energy efficiency or in terms of the reality of the housing supply and affordability crisis that we've inherited and are actually doing something about.Scott Willis: Will the Minister commit to establishing a zero carbon building hub as recommended by the Green Building Council to ensure a collaborative and sector-led approach to ensuring affordability and better building standards?Hon CHRIS PENK: I'm not going to make any commitment on behalf of the Government as to the method by which we are going to improve sustainability of building outcomes in New Zealand. But I will say in relation to the Green Building Council's advocacy I have been engaging with them pretty diligently I would say over the last several months including as recently as last week and including as recently as this week in fact on these very subjects. I will make recommendations to fellow Ministers in due course but they will expect no doubt that any proposed solutions that I bring to the Government would meet the dual aims of improving sustainability including energy efficiency and the health benefits but without making housing so unaffordable that we have the homelessness problems and all the energy efficiency and social and economic problems that go with that which is the current reality.Grant McCallum: What comments has he been hearing in Northland about the effects of recent changes to clause H1 of the building code?Hon CHRIS PENK: I've heard a number of comments from the excellent member of Parliament who represents Northland and he's in touch with his constituents. So too is the Mayor of the Far North Mr Moko Tepania who said he would like the H1 changes reversed—again listening to his constituents—because in his view these are contributing to the critical shortage of affordable housing that they so desperately need. He said earlier this week: "We have huge levels of overcrowding for the housing that we have. Our housing is severely unaffordable according to the housing index and we have got hundreds on our waiting list for public housing." He also went on to say "We want to ensure that any housing that is built up here is going to be safe and warm and affordable. But also we don't want them to be inappropriate or cost prohibitive to us ensuring that we are boosting the number of houses that we are building up here for our people." The point there Mr Speaker that's a very astute one on behalf of His Worship is that we have a blunt instrument at the moment such that the settings in Northland are exactly the same as they are in Southland. And I think that's a legitimate avenue for inquiry and part of the review that I have asked MBIE officials now to conduct.Scott Willis: Is the Minister comfortable committing more families to cold and unhealthy under-insulated housing when almost one in five hospital admissions of young children with acute respiratory infections could be prevented if their homes were free from damp and cold?Hon CHRIS PENK: I've done no such thing but of course the Government will enter into the discussion of how we can balance the requirements of affordability and sustainability including as to the health effects in a way that's realistic and reflects the practical implementation realities such as currently we're hearing from people who actually know what they're talking about—that these various aims are not being met at the moment."