SpeechParts 1 and 2 Schedules 1 and 2 and clauses 1 and 2Hon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): If I may I would just like to ask a few questions because I think they're significant. I hope that the Minister might be able to deal with them as we go through. That's why I took my point of order to just seek clarification about the procedure. At end of her speech in the first reading—she spoke obviously moving the first reading but at the end of her speech at that time the Minister made the comment that she's confident this bill will deter smuggling of illicit tobacco. Now that's clearly the whole purpose of this bill. And I do think it's important therefore that both this committee and the country as a whole have a very clear understanding of how she anticipates that that will occur. Because if we don't have that answer you'd have to ask why on earth we're considering this bill at any stage certainly under urgency. I stress that I am supportive of it and I'm certainly supportive of its objectives. But we need to hear from the Minister clearly how this particular bill will deter smuggling. I've made the point before—and I will continue to make it—that career criminals and smugglers don't stand in an orderly queue and apply for import licences. They don't go through the permitting system that law-abiding people do. So unless we can be advised as to how it's going to work it's hard to feel a great sense of confidence that it is going to work. So I'd invite her to answer that question now if she wishes to. Otherwise I'll move on and—looks as if she's not going to. I have another question that I'd like to ask. We're told that in the event of tobacco products being seized and destroyed in error by Customs those who effectively therefore did have a permit to legally import tobacco will be entitled to compensation. Now given the severity of the fiscal crisis this country faces at the moment I don't think that any of us want to see a single dollar of taxpayers' money being wasted. And while we are probably only talking fairly small sums nevertheless the idea that compensation might be paid is one that would cause concern if it shouldn't have happened. So the Minister needs to explain to the law-abiding hardworking taxpayers of this country how they may have confidence that they won't be footing another bill for mistakes that are going to be made at a time when for the foreseeable future perhaps even for the unforeseeable future each and every one of us has an enormous debt to repay. We don't want to be wasting a dollar of taxpayers funding. I'm keen to allow the Minister a chance to answer that question.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Well you'd have to sit down for her to stand up.Hon TIM MACINDOE: I'm happy to do that.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Just to make sure—because the Minister wasn't present when we've been trialling this through the appropriations debate. So what we had was essentially a conversation a bit like supplementary questions where a question could be asked of the Minister. You don't have a five minute speech and the Minister can choose to answer that or collect a few questions. But it worked really well when the Minister answered—just got up and answered it—and you had a bit of a conversation about the bill. It's entirely up to the Minister. But it certainly was the reason that the sessional order was passed—to allow that to happen.