English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:623;Page:18447] 
1. Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Education 
: Does he still believe that he has moved into the compulsory education sector at a time when all the big issues are “off the table” and does he stand by his statement yesterday regarding NCEA scholarship that “Nothing went wrong”? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE (Associate Minister of Education) 
: 
 I would have to say that the member opposite would not score very highly for the use of language in context. He may be forgiven for not realising that the reference to the big issues being “off the table” in the  
New Zealand Herald 
 of December—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister has not said anything that is against the Standing Orders. He will start again. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I would have to say that the member opposite would not score very highly for the use of language in context. He may be— 
John Carter 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. During question time yesterday you pulled up members of the Opposition on the basis that they were using extraneous matter with regard to the questions being asked and you told us we were not allowed to do that. I then raised a point of order and said to you that in fairness if that is the rule for the Opposition the same should apply to the Government and that Ministers should answer the question without reference to other things. We now have a Minister directly attacking Mr English without even starting to try to respond to the question. The Minister should be asked to answer the question directly. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has made a valid point. In answering questions the Minister should not comment on the knowledge of a member. I ask the Minister to come to the answer. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: The reference to big issues being so-called “off the table” in the  
New Zealand Herald 
 of 21 December was to the big industrial settlements of the previous year. However there was a clear clue in the next line that stated that the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) and special education were among the issues that we would have to give attention to this year. With regard to scholarship clearly the Government believes that the variability in some scholarship results was beyond what is acceptable. As a result we have immediately moved to correct any disadvantage to students. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why should students who are entering the 2005 scholarship our premier academic award in secondary schools and their teachers believe that scholarship results will be any more reliable next year when he has said that “Nothing went wrong” this year when he has blamed everyone except the people who ran the exam and when there has been no accountability for the fact that the results in our premier secondary school qualification were such a political embarrassment that Cabinet has stepped in to decide who passes and who does not pass? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I do not believe that the prime purpose of anyone should be in this case to seek blame as the member seems to be focused on doing. If nothing had gone wrong the Government—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: This is ridiculous. I am allowing the odd interjection. I am not having that sort of yelling or there will be no interjections during question time. I do not want to do that. The Minister is entitled to answer. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: If nothing had gone wrong the Government would not have had to act as decisively as it has. I am sorry that my comment was taken out of context. I was referring to levels 1 2 and 3 of NCEA. My reference was also to the conduct of the scholarship exams themselves which have delivered outcomes that while unpalatable and to some extent unacceptable are none the less being delivered by due process. We have not intervened to manipulate those results; they will stand. The Government has provided recognition at level 3 where the subject had an unacceptably low number of scholarship passes and consequently enabled additional students in those subjects to become eligible for monetary awards. 
Helen Duncan 
: What comments has the Minister seen regarding the Government’s response to the scholarship results? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I have particularly noted the comments on  
Breakfast  
television this morning where Dr John Langley Dean of Education at Auckland University said of the scholarship issue: “It had been dealt with fairly.” and “Young people who realistically expected to receive a scholarship have come away with something.” I also note that when asked whether it was a shambles as National has claimed he said: “No I think that is quite hysterical.” 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Does he stand by his claim yesterday that the reason for the bad publicity for NCEA scholarship exams is simply that Bill English has made some damning statements; if so what is this telling us about the Government’s perception of Mr English’s public influence? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I believe as I am sure the questioner and the majority of the members of the House do that NCEA is widely supported by the community by parents by students and by educators. I find it impossible not to observe the constant litany of criticism and destructive comment that has been made by among others Mr English. I find that very destructive to the confidence in the system and to the future of young people. 
Metiria Turei 
: Did those big issues that are now off the table include Government plans to support the United Nations Decade of Education for Sustainable Development within the school system so that our children are educated as responsible ecologically conscious citizens; if not what does the Minister plan to do exactly? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That has very little to do with the original question—[ 
Interruption 
] I will not have interjections while I am making my ruling and while the question is being asked. That is the only warning today. I said that that question has very little to do with the original question. The Minister may make a brief comment. 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: Only inasmuch as the level of priority of such discussions is clearly much less significant in those huge industrial issues in terms of the operation of our education system. 
Bernie Ogilvy 
: What assurance can he give to families in New Zealand that they can have full confidence in the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and NCEA and that he will personally ensure that the NCEA bungles will stop? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I gave that assurance to the House during question time yesterday. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority and the Minister of Education were advised last year that there would be problems with scholarship as contained in minutes of the Secondary Principals’ and Leaders’ Forum which met on 25 August 2004 that stated: “… teachers have been reluctant to enter students for scholarship when they do not know how it is going to be examined. This may reflect a lack of confidence in scholarship examination by teachers.” and since the Government was warned when will there be accountability for the fact that the New Zealand Qualifications Authority went ahead with the scholarship examination when teachers had said it would not work? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: No I cannot confirm that statement. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is it the Minister’s view that there should be no accountability whatsoever for the fact that he and his agency made a shambles out of the premier secondary school qualification and that thousands of students have been cheated out of a credible result? 
Hon DAVID BENSON-POPE 
: I certainly do not support that member’s premise. Nor do I believe—and neither have I ever said—that there should be no accountability in that matter. 
Hon Bill English 
: I seek leave to table the minutes of the Secondary Principals’ and Leaders’ Forum which outlines to the head of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority concerns about the scholarship examination in August last year. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.