Collins Judith: Urgent Debates Declined — Skycity Convention Centre—Inquiry into Expressions of Interest Process; Urgent Debates — Accident Compensation Corporation—Resignations 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Collins Judith: Urgent Debates Declined — Skycity Convention Centre—Inquiry into Expressions of Interest Process; Urgent Debates — Accident Compensation Corporation—Resignations 
[Sitting date: 13 June 2012. Volume:680;Page:2909. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister for ACC) 
: 
 Mr Speaker have you called me? 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Yes I have. I have called the member. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I could not hear for the noise. Because of the applause I am sorry Mr Speaker I could not hear. That member who has just resumed his seat Andrew Little has called for hope. I have got hope for him. David Shearer is safe. David Shearer is very safe now. I saw today that Mr Little has been undermining Mr Shearer at every chance he can get particularly over superannuation. At the end of the day what we have got here is a member and David Shearer’s deputy who do not want to listen because they are too busy trying to undermine their leader.  
What we have had is a situation where Mr Judge resigned yesterday as at 30 June and I have thanked him for the excellent work he did.  
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: Ha ha! 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: He took over a financial mess in ACC. The former Minister for ACC the Hon Ruth Dyson might well laugh. She was not laughing that hard when she had to resign as Minister for ACC because she was caught drink-driving. If we are going to talk about dirt let us go down there.  
Hon Simon Bridges 
: “So what?” she says.  
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: She said “So what?” did she? Well they do not mind attacking my colleague so let them have a little back.  
In fact as for Mr Little I am going to correct something he said in the House today. I am actually getting a little tired of having to correct him on what he says. He said for instance that my office and I were being investigated by the Privacy Commissioner. No Mr Little; I refer you again to the terms of reference. I know that Mr Little may not like getting the facts in front of a story but actually maybe he should. He is supposed to be a lawyer I understand.  
Hon Members 
: No! 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: It is hard to believe. But anyway Mr Judge took over as did my colleague the Hon Nick Smith a situation in ACC where there was a financial mess—a complete mess— 
Hon Simon Bridges 
: Shame on Labour. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: —and shame on Labour for allowing that to happen. Mr Judge and the Hon Nick Smith had to set about trying to make sure they could bring the corporation back into financial health and they have done so. However what we now have is a situation where it is time for a change in culture in ACC. I think Mr Judge and the Hon Nick Smith have done a fantastic job of getting financial strength and health in the organisation but I want to have a situation where ACC has a culture whereby its staff look at their claimants and they ask themselves: “How would I like to be treated? How would I like my information to be treated?” or even more so: “How would I like my mother’s information to be treated?”. I would like ACC to have that culture.  
I have been around to nine different ACC offices in the last 3 months talking to the staff there. I have to say they have been great. They have been absolutely uniformly supportive in wanting to bring about changes. They have said to me that they accept that they need to improve their performance around privacy and that they need to improve their performance around how they speak about their claimants and about what they actually do. They are extremely committed to getting people back to independence—absolutely committed to getting people back to independence.  
I know that the Labour Party does not like people getting back to independence. We have seen it with the attacks its members have made on my colleague the Hon Paula Bennett and on the excellent work she is doing in welfare. For most people getting back into work will not only help them physically but also help them mentally. That might be something Labour members should think about. Work is good; it is not a punishment. It is part of life and it makes people feel worthwhile and like they are contributing. It is actually very good not only for finances but also for health.  
ACC staff all around the country do not like the fact that Andrew Little day in day out bags them. Day in day out he attacks them for doing the job they are supposed to do. They have been doing a fantastic job of dealing with the 1.6 million claims they get every year. Of course they are going to make errors on occasion—very few errors. I have said to them that they need to put their hand up straight away but they must consider the professionalism that is expected around people’s— 
Andrew Little 
: Why is ACC losing more reviews? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: What is that Mr Little? 
Andrew Little 
: Why is ACC losing more reviews? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Oh I see. Mr Little wants ACC to not lose reviews. In other words Mr Little wants ACC to have to pay out on every single claim even when it is not legitimate so that ACC would have zero tolerance to any errors.  
The reason we have got reviews is so that ACC’s decisions can be considered. My colleague the Hon Dr Nick Smith actually set up Dispute Resolution Services and got it going. It is an excellent thing for him to be able to set up as an independent agency away from ACC so that it could have independence. Frankly do I hear anything from the Opposition saying that that is a good thing? No. But I think it is. I think it actually gives ACC claimants some independence as to where they can go.  
Of course Dispute Resolution Services overturns some of ACC’s claims and that shows its independence actually. If Dispute Resolution Services agreed with everything that ACC did then it would not be independent. If it agreed with everything that ACC did then either ACC is agreeing to things it should not be agreeing to and giving entitlements that are not there or Dispute Resolution Services might be considered to be a puppet of ACC and that would not be acceptable either. Of course we need to change some of the culture around ACC and I am absolutely dedicated towards that.  
I would like to thank Kevin Hague today from the Green Party for the very nice comments he made about me in the media. I think Kevin Hague does generally play the ball and not the person. I would say that about the Greens—unlike some we can mention but we will not bother to mention them. Even though Kevin Hague and I are not going to agree on many things I respect people in this House who actually get on and say what it is.  
Just to give a little bit of context to this I point out that ACC had 1.675 million claims in the last year. How many calls is that received weekly? It is 24385 inbound calls received weekly—24385 total inbound calls received weekly. That gives us an idea of the scale of what ACC is dealing with. It is dealing with people who have been rarked up by people on the other side of the House to think there are entitlements that are not there. That is one of the problems that ACC got itself into in the 2000s under the Labour Government. The policy paradigms were all changed so that it was basically: “Get rid of anything where there might be somebody who is unhappy with the decision.” Obviously we want the right decisions. Sometimes those decisions are not going to be met with universal approval but ACC has got to be able to make those tough decisions.  
Hon Simon Bridges 
: It’s not a lolly scramble. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: It is not a lolly scramble. It is actually a very serious business because it is other people’s money—levy payers and taxpayers—for those who are in the non-work area. The fact is that it has got to be sensible. On the other hand let us look at it this way. A wee while ago I was in one of the branches talking to its staff. One of the investigators said to me that they had found a person who was supposed to be at home prone on his back and unable to do anything—completely paralysed—on a social networking site showing him surfing in Bali.  
Hon Paula Bennett 
: Awkward. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: That is just a teeny bit awkward. That was an extreme. Frankly it is a bit difficult for ACC staff when they are dealing with people when occasionally there is the odd person who is surfing in Bali when they are supposed to be prone on their back at home and unable to work.  
In the meantime ACC has got to actually get on and deal with the vast majority of the 1.675 million claims it had last year from legitimate claimants who have to have their matters dealt with. I can also tell the House that almost every week I get letters from people who are very happy with the way they have been treated by ACC. I get reports from people who have written into their case managers thanking them for the excellent service that they have been given. Actually these 1.65 million New Zealanders the vast majority of whom are very happy with the work that ACC does do not like it when they hear their case managers being pilloried by the Opposition. They want to know that their case managers who are helping to bring them into independence are actually being appreciated not bagged just for helping them to get back to work.  
I also remember just recently going to an Accredited Employers Programme forum. I guess I saw the attitude of some of the unionists or ex-unionists in the Labour Party because I was at this accredited employers forum with trade unionists and employers and obviously with ACC staff. It was a really constructive forum until I got asked questions from some of the unionists. They went something like this: “I hear that accredited employers are forcing people to go back to work on half-time when they’re not ready to do full time.” I thought: “So where’s the problem there?” and I was told: “Oh well you know they’re being punished—to go back to work.” So I said: “I’m sorry to tell you but in my opinion work is not a punishment. It is in fact a fabulous thing that helps people get back to wellness.” But anyway apparently it is a punishment.  
Then I got this other one. It gives you the commitment of some of those trade unionists to health and safety in the workplace! How is this one? This is really good! “Some employers are apparently drug-testing employees without the union approving it.” 
Hon Members 
: What? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Oh no! Fancy that!  
Hon Members 
: No! 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: No! It is true; that is what he said. The industry by the way—because you will want to know—involves driving great big cranes with great big containers. So what do you think? Do you think they could be drug tested? I thought that was pretty sensible. So I said: “Actually ACC is really interested in keeping down accidents in the workplace. This is one of our big areas where we need to do even better. And actually frankly I think an employer has to take a responsible line. Do you think it is OK for other employees to have to work in a situation where they have got a drunk or drugged person driving a great big crane with a big containers stuck to it?”. The fact is no.  
In essence and in conclusion ACC has been doing an excellent job around this particular area of getting claimants dealt with. However I am still not happy with the privacy protocols. I am still not happy that the culture of the organisation has not gone as far as I would like. I am looking forward—when the new board is in place and the new chief executive appointed—to seeing further progress along the way. There has been great progress this year. There was fantastic progress in the 3 years before. There is still a wee way to go but I am very confident that it will get there.