Coleman Jonathan: Financial Review Debate — In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Coleman Jonathan: Financial Review Debate — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 12 March 2013. Volume:688;Page:8453. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Defence) 
: 
 I want to begin—and I want to do it actually on Mr Goff’s behalf as well because I know he would intend this to be done—by paying tribute to our service people in the New Zealand Defence Force. They have served very very bravely over many many years and who are just coming out of three very stressful and dangerous deployments in Afghanistan—Afghanistan where 10 New Zealand Defence Force personnel gave their lives—East Timor and the Solomon Islands where our people have served with distinction. My first priority as Minister of Defence is to support our people overseas. They face extremely dangerous circumstances and I think the start of any speech on defence should be to graciously acknowledge the risks that our people face in the name of the New Zealand public. 
I just need to say Mr Goff that that speech was an absolute unpatriotic disgrace—an unpatriotic disgrace. When I go around New Zealand Defence Force bases what they say to me is that they are absolutely fed up with traitors like Phil Goff talking down the morale of the New Zealand Defence Force. Mr Goff—the one thing I know about him is he will constantly misrepresent the facts. I have been in Parliament for 7 years. My experience of that man when he was a Minister and now as the Opposition defence spokesman is that he will constantly misrepresent the facts. I think it is a total disgrace that rather than actually taking the opportunity to praise our people he went on to trash our Defence Force. Actually Mr Goff asked whether morale has ever been lower. I can say that it has Mr Goff—it was lower when you were Minister of Defence. I can say today that four out of five New Zealand Defence Force personnel rate their morale as very good or better—four out of five. I can say that if you had 80 percent of people in the Labour Party rating their morale as very good or better you would be frankly totally shocked. 
So what I can say Mr Goff is we need people New Zealanders from across the House—and I am sure there will be many people in the Labour Party who will agree—who will back our people and who will say our Defence Force people are doing a good job. It is no good for Mr Goff to constantly harangue me with meaningless interjections with drivel. As Charles Chauvel said Mr Goff is the enemy within. He is the enemy within the Labour Party and frankly he is the enemy within for the New Zealand Defence Force because he does not back our troops. I was just listening to this man actually using the court of inquiry into a brave New Zealand soldier who died in Afghanistan to make a political point. That Mr Goff is a complete disgrace because you have broken a suppression order— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Stop the hypocrisy and answer the question. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: I invite you to go out into the foyer and say that again because I do not think you would have the balls to do it. I do not think you would because Mr Goff is all talk but no action. He has been here tonight lying and misrepresenting— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Order! Minister there is a Standing Order that says that you cannot say that a member is lying. I know this is a robust debate but I will just ask the Minister to be very careful about that and also some of the language. 
Jami-Lee Ross 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. There are also Standing Orders about a constant barrage of interjections. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: No I will be the judge of that. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Anyway I think we have had enough on that particular topic. 
What I do want to say is that when you look at the savings programme that we have instituted across the New Zealand Defence Force it is not something that is unique to New Zealand. If you go overseas and you talk to the French you talk to the British or you talk to the Americans defence force reform is the response to the global financial crisis. It is an absolute fact. The New Zealand Defence Force has the best reform programme across the New Zealand Public Service. Last year— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Come on—the highest attrition rate across the Public Service. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: —across defence we saved $140 million and that is quite remarkable. Mr Goff speaks about attrition. Well I can say— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Yeah if you speak of not paying the Defence Force a pay rise for 4½ years. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Well if you would listen for a moment: the attrition rate today is 17 percent. It was 19 percent in 2001 under Labour. That is a fact. Army attrition is less than it was in 2005 when Phil Goff was Minister. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: That’s not true. That’s a lie. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: Air force attrition is less than half of the 24 percent reached in February 2002. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Order! I have just brought the Minister to account for using the word “lie” and the same applies on this side. Now it is even so we are starting off again. Sixteen seconds remain for the Minister. 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: In summary I back our personnel. They do an excellent job. I call on Labour to back them as well. Our people need support. They take massive risks. We have lost 10 people in Afghanistan. Phil Goff needs to man up stop trashing the Defence Force and back our people.