Jones Shane: Taxation (Annual Rates Foreign Superannuation and Remedial Matters) Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeJones Shane: Taxation (Annual Rates Foreign Superannuation and Remedial Matters) Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 18 February 2014. Volume:696;Page:16007. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon SHANE JONES (Labour): Kia ora tātou. I direct our attention to Part 2 of the Taxation (Annual Rates Foreign Superannuation and Remedial Matters) Bill and the portion of it dealing with mineral mining. I shall preface my remarks knowing that there are quite polarising views around this type of economic activity. I will definitely avoid worsening any polarisation of that matter but it is one of the two areas I am going tofocus on in this 10-minute call with your support Mr Chairperson. The first area is the question of at what point in time and how does an investor in an area riddled with uncertainty enjoy the opportunity to claim back the entirety of the dough or the capital they are expending? Obviously on one side we want to avoid a situation where an enormous amount of dough is poured into it—John Hayes: Do you mean money?Hon SHANE JONES: Well yes I do mean money. Yes we are supportive of the notion that when the funds in our domestic economy are absent there is nothing wrong—subject to suitable guidelines and legal parameters—with that money coming into our country but those people investing in our country need to abide by whatever the statutory framework is. I will have more to say on the pū and competitiveness framework tomorrow; that is another matter.I am talking about the broader framework that relates to mining as an activity—in particular the period of time over which the spread of money invested can actually be legitimately claimed back. We do not have a capital gains tax in New Zealand so one thing we certainly want to avoid is that if something is spent and the asset—if it does turn into an asset—is sold there is no way for the State to claim back what it is entitled to. It is reasonable that for an investment of this nature there should be some way given that these people are putting money at risk they are paying wages and they are paying exorbitant fees to geologists. I guess a similar thing pertains to lawyers; I only hope I do not fall into that trap myself. What we are saying is that when the expenditure is spread over the life of the project we want to ensure that it is also relevant to the level of production that is secured.This is something we agree with. It is tidying up an area that I suppose you could say is quite a controversial area. Some will say that the tax system should abandon this approach because there is no rightful place in a modern economy for mining. Obviously we say that it is an indelible feature of the modern economy but if there is a way of transitioning our economy into other economic activities then we hope that investors will move us in that direction. Rest assured by the end of the year help will be on the way and we will move with a greater level of alacrity to a more balanced economy; one that generates fewer environmental bads and actually stands for the long-term prospects of less volume and more value in the economy.But we are stuck with the endowment resources that nature has given us and we are stuck with those investors who are putting money into this sector. In my view some of the more responsible investors are not using the tax system to avoid any of their liabilities but this bill clearly outlines that if you are in this particular area there are specific obligations that from now on you will be required to meet. But that does not mean that such investment will be blacklisted or that it will not be regarded as an acceptable part of the modern economy. The challenge of course is to ensure that the surveillance by tax inspectors—I do not even know if we still have tax inspectors—is actually such that these measures are implemented in such a way that the corporate advisers the accountancy advisers and the general counsel of the various firms investing huge amounts of money into mining activity understand what the new regime is and what their obligations are.I know it is a rather odd sensation for members on the other side of the Chamber when we are actually agreeing with some of this. Of course some of these changes are caused by that side of the Chamber playing catch-up rugby. These are things that were adumbrated outlined quite some time ago. I also want to direct our attention—[Bell rung] Mr Chair?The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy): Yes the Hon Shane Jones.Jami-Lee Ross: Close call—close call.Hon SHANE JONES: Thank you very much Mr Chairperson. I heard one of the animal kingdom squeak over there. Is there a need to call for first aid? Was that a mole a little noise I might have heard coming from under the earth or was that a butterfly learning to fly—a monarch butterfly? Probably not.I want to direct our attention to one of three other things in respect of Part 2 but I have to say before I settle upon it that the Finance and Expenditure Committee operates quite effectively. On this occasion there was adequate opportunity given to our colleagues from the Green Party—probably far greater than I would have given them had I been in the chair but I am just an Opposition MP. I have to say that they had an opportunity and the submitters had an opportunity.Despite the great effort being expended by the current chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee Paul Goldsmith he unfortunately did not follow the party tradition that the Finance and Expenditure Committee chair is immediately moved into Cabinet. I have some commiserations in that regard. The chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee will unfortunately go through his career having never been a Cabinet Minister because by the time 2021 2024 or 2027 arrive he will perhaps be approaching Jim Anderton’s age. It is hardly likely that the party will have a place for him then because that is when that man will be back as a member of a Government. They need to bear in mind that one swallow a spring does not make. Although that poll result over the weekend was difficult for me personally to swallow it is just a small ephemeral passing phase. The flagging fortunes of that member’s party will soon become evident once winter and autumn strike interest rates go up and a host of other woeful things beset us. But help is on the way.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Wishful thinking—wishful thinking.Hon SHANE JONES: We are hearing from a very senior member of Parliament. We are hearing from Dr Smith. Recently I was referred to as someone who along with my matua from Woodstone has suffered a few calamities but has stood again. I am in a kōhanga reo when it comes to comparing my fortunes ebbing or flowing as they may be with those of that particular member. I will tell you one thing though: he does understand the truth. He does understand the truth. So I thought it was rather bizarre that John Banks today should challenge me—I seek a little bit of acquiescence from you Mr Chair—The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy): I am not sure you are going to get it. Come back to the part.Hon SHANE JONES: OK OK OK. I am extraordinarily disappointed that there is not the sense of latitude that one would expect commensurate with your not inconsiderable size Mr Chair—a man of girth a man of substantial southern ardour.There are several other portions here not least of which are the almost incomprehensible sections dealing with imputation credits. Each successive Government endeavours to address this particular issue. We stand with our colleagues on the other side of the Chamber and seek those refinements. When I spoke earlier— slightly to the irritation of Mr Chairperson I suppose I would say—I delved into the complex matter of Working for Families and he reminded me that is not in this part. But families are everywhere and I can tell you that when things do not quite work out as families should they can be incredibly expensive. But that is another matter. I do not think that has to do with tax.Dr David Clark: It’s Part 3—that’s Part 3.Hon SHANE JONES: You mean that pleasure awaits me?Dr David Clark: Yes indeed.Hon SHANE JONES: That pleasure awaits me. I only hope that I am on the Māori news or something before Part 3 arrives. But I bring us back to the somewhat technicalsections. They do pertain to the minerals sector. Contrary to what is tossed around about us we do see that sector as being deserving of appropriate tax treatment. There is a fear because of the long-term development rights associated with it and the need to put money into it year by year that the tax system may not fully collect from those investors what it is entitled to. I say that providing people realise that the tax treatment of those investments—it has to be simple it has to be clear and if we do scare away investment—