Hobbs Marian: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hobbs Marian: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:633;Page:5204] 
9.  
Hon MARIAN HOBBS (Labour—Wellington Central) 
 to the  
Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control 
: What steps will New Zealand take to press for the legal regulation of cluster bombs in light of the experience in Lebanon? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister for Disarmament and Arms Control) 
: 
 New facts are emerging from the Lebanon on the seriousness of the humanitarian situation that has been created by the use of cluster bombs. These I believe give urgency to the need for much stronger international controls over the use of such munitions. I have asked that the New Zealand delegation in Geneva take a lead in calling for strong and legally binding controls to restrict the use of cluster bombs. That message was delivered at a meeting on the inhumane weapons convention that took place in Geneva yesterday. 
Hon Marian Hobbs 
: What information has emerged from the use of cluster munitions in Lebanon? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The latest information I have from the United Nations Mine Action Service is that the situation there is without a doubt the worst post-conflict cluster bomb contamination that it has ever had to deal with. The information I gave the House last week was that 10 percent of those bombs did not go off on impact and were therefore potentially lethal for civilians particularly children. The latest estimate is that 50 percent are not being detonated on impact and are there waiting for an innocent person to come along. There have been so far 68 confirmed casualties 12 of those proving fatal. That is a situation we cannot tolerate. One hundred thousand cluster bomblets are currently estimated to be lying on the ground in places in the Lebanon where people are living today. 
Keith Locke 
: Will the Minister push for a ban on cluster bomb trading to restrain hold-out countries like the United States from providing these abominable weapons to users like Israel? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Of course in principle we want to see the total elimination of cluster bombs. There simply is not a majority in the international arena to support that. We are therefore targeting our efforts at goals we think we can achieve in terms of where those bombs can be used—certainly excluding civilian areas—and in terms of the use of obsolete weapons. Some of the weapons used in the last 3 days of the war in the Lebanon had a 100 percent failure rate; they were munitions dating from 1973. Clearly that sort of munition ought also to be banned. 
Keith Locke 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I think the Minister may have misheard my question which was about trading not about the manufacture and possession of cluster bombs. In the small arms area and other areas of arms control trading is an important target. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: What we are seeking to do working with like-minded countries is to do the achievable which is to limit the use and design of cluster bombs. That is a good place to start. 
Hon Marian Hobbs 
: While trying to achieve the achievable does the Minister think we are going to get any support for our campaign? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: There are clearly countries regrettably that believe that cluster munitions should be produced traded and used in any circumstances. They will not be supportive of what we are trying to do. But we do have a strong group of like-minded countries—the Scandinavian countries and countries like Austria Belgium Switzerland Mexico and Jordan which hold very similar views to New Zealand. I believe that through our working with these countries and in the face of the humanitarian crisis obvious to everyone in the Lebanon the majority of countries will eventually be persuaded to support our point of view.