10. Question No. 10—Social Development and EmploymentKAREN CHHOUR (ACT) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 10—Social Development and Employment10. KAREN CHHOUR (ACT) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she believe that she is achieving results for New Zealanders currently not in the workforce and receiving income support who are looking to enter the workforce?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Internal Affairs) on behalf of the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Yes. The last three quarters have seen record numbers of people move off benefit and into work. In the September quarter 28152 people cancelled their benefit and moved into work. This was a record for the September quarter. It builds on the March and June quarters which saw the highest number of people moving into work since records began in 1996.Karen Chhour: Would the Minister expect the number of people claiming the job seeker benefit to decrease as unemployment drops from 4.8 percent in September 2017 to only 3.4 percent in September 2021 and if so why did the number of people on the job seeker benefit increase by 70000 over the same period?Hon JAN TINETTI: There are many different reasons for why the benefits move around and some of those are around the fact that the Household Labour Force Survey doesn't take into account those people who are in part-time work. So when that is picked up the 11000 job seekers—the numbers more closely align.Karen Chhour: Why is there another 70000 people on the job seeker benefit according to the Ministry of Social Development since 2017 despite lower unemployment and record difficulty in finding labour for New Zealand firms?Hon JAN TINETTI: As I said in the previous question there are a variety of reasons for what are the causes behind this but one of the things that I will say is that when—on behalf of the Minister—she took over as the Minister for Social Development she was shocked at the state of front-line services. It is very clear that what is needed in these times is early intervention to get people back into work and that is why we have put in place programmes such as Mana in Mahi and He Poutama Rangatahi which under the previous Minister of Employment the Hon Willie Jackson has seen a number of people come through and we will see people that are coming through those programmes go into employment from those programmes.Karen Chhour: Would the Minister be able to explain why annual social security and welfare spending according to the Treasury excluding super and the wage subsidy has increased by $6.4 billion since Labour came into power while at the same time unemployment has fallen to record lows and difficulty finding labour is at record highs?Hon JAN TINETTI: I don't have those figures in front of me at this time and I know that the Minister would really welcome that question. If the member would put that in writing she would be happy to answer that.Karen Chhour: Why should New Zealanders have confidence in this Government's ability to transition Kiwis away from long-term benefit dependency into work when under their watch 70000 extra people are on the job seeker benefit and annual social security and welfare spending excluding super and wage subsidy has increased to $6.4 billion?Hon JAN TINETTI: When the Minister took over as Minister for Social Development she was shocked at the state of the front-line services. National had abandoned work-focused case management in favour of punitive and non-effective sanctions. Case managers were overloaded and unable to dedicate enough time to the early interventions required to get people into work. The strong growth in people who have been on a benefit longer than five years is an example of the failure of the previous Government. These people came on to benefits during the previous Government's time at the wheel and they did not get the early interventions required that were failed by the previous Government. We inherited a shambles.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order Mr Speaker. I tried to wait until the end of the answer but it kept going on. You are aware and have rebuked members under Standing Order 390 Content of questions". I would point out that the exact Standing Order Standing Order 396 applies to the content of replies and I suggest to you that many of the comments made by the Minister fall well outside that Standing Order.Hon Chris Hipkins: Speaking to the point of order. I don't have the exact number of the Speaker's ruling to hand but I'm sure you probably know it. There is a Speaker's ruling that indicates that it is perfectly in order for a Minister to be asked about and to answer questions about the challenges they encountered when they became a Minister.David Seymour: Speaking to the point of order Mr Speaker. On behalf of ACT—SPEAKER: If the member takes his mask off we might be able to hear him.David Seymour: On behalf of ACT we were very happy for the Minister to keep going. SPEAKER: Well I am happy to rule and I won't go to the specific previous Speakers' rulings on the matter. I think if that had been a Government supplementary question designed to attack the Opposition then I would have foreshortened the answer because I think that would have been outside the spirit of the Standing Orders. But a general question as this started around whether the public should have confidence in a particular Minister from the Opposition I think it's perfectly acceptable for the Minister to outline why the public should have confidence in her.Hon Member: That's right start again.SPEAKER: No no. I think notwithstanding all of that I think we've probably had enough.Karen Chhour: Point of order Mr Speaker. I would be quite keen to hear the rest of the Minister's answer. May we please hear that?SPEAKER: Well I know Ms McKee that you're not normally a naughty member of Parliament but I had pretty clearly indicated that I thought that the question had been adequately answered and that we will move on to the next question."