Collins Judith: Corrections Bill — First Reading 
Collins Judith: Corrections Bill — First Reading 
[Volume:607;Page:4704] 
JUDITH COLLINS (NZ National—Clevedon) 
: 
 We oppose this bill for many reasons. Unlike the Labour member Mr Fairbrother who spoke previously we are not a bunch of wimpy white liberals who sit around in our spa pools drinking Chardonnay thinking about the happiness of the dear Maori in prison. We do not look upon Maori as prisoners; we look upon Maori as New Zealanders. 
Edwin Perry 
: Hear hear! 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: I thank my friend in New Zealand First. We do not sit around saying we are going to say one thing to people about prisoners and that is: “Let’s lock them up for longer.” then when we get into power we will sit around and pass legislation about their diet and their religious and spiritual needs. Look at the sorts of provisions this bill provides. I ask all members to have a look at clause 79(1) which states: “The chief executive must ensure that in every corrections prison so far as is reasonable and practicable appropriate provision is made for the various religious and spiritual needs of prisoners.” What if the prisoner is a Satanist—and that is not a silly question is it Mr Cosgrove? Mr Cosgrove and I both know that there is a bunch of them down in Christchurch. You know that there is a whole stack of them— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member cannot use the word “you” as it brings the Chair into the debate. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: I am sure that that member knows there is a whole bunch of Satanists down in Christchurch in a White Power gang. That is how one knows one is in Christchurch: the gangs are not Black Power but White Power. That particular right will now be enshrined in law. The bill says to prison management and prison officers—who ought to know what they are doing even if they do not always—“Please don’t make decisions or policies because we are going to legislate every single thing that you can or cannot do.” In clause 72(2) the bill states: “As far as practicable in the circumstances in providing food and drink to prisoners allowance must be made for the various religious spiritual and cultural needs of the prisoners.” What is the prison manager supposed to do if he or she gets a whole bunch of people who say they want a particular sort of meal because of their religion? If they need halal meals will the manager have to go and get different sorts of meat and grains? What about a vegan’s needs? That is absolute twaddle. That is what the Government is putting in this bill. It is wimpy white liberal nonsense and none of the people who must be consulted have been consulted. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Unlike that Labour Party member I have actually visited prisons. I have visited Mount Eden Prison and seen the appalling situation there. I have been to the Paremoremo medium security prison and the Paremoremo maximum security prison and I have even visited someone in D Block. I can tell members that those prisons do not rehabilitate inmates. We in the National Party are not foolish enough to think that prisons at the moment ever rehabilitate. What they do is keep people in a place where it is hoped they will be out of harm’s way and away from the general public. Prison is in fact a punishment. I know that to the Labour Party that is a whole new attitude but prisons should be places of punishment. They should not be holiday camps to improve the diet and physical well-being of prisoners or to cater to their spiritual needs. 
Having said that I acknowledge that some people who go to prison are not absolutely evil and that some of them can be rehabilitated. But I can tell members that they will never be rehabilitated in Paremoremo’s maximum security or medium security prisons or at Mount Eden Prison because the culture in those prisons is not about rehabilitation. 
However the private prison in Auckland the Auckland Central Remand Prison is a prison that is working. It has a culture in which the spiritual needs of prisoners are taken care of but that is not done by making a big song and dance about it and putting it in legislation. It has a culture where prisoners are treated as individuals. They are given education programmes and are helped as much as possible. Better than that as well as the prison’s culture being good it is cheaper and it is not driven by the Public Service Association. It is not about getting more money into the Labour Party coffers through its union membership; it is all about doing the right thing. If that prison can stop someone from going to prison again then in every single case that is a victory. But the reality is that our current prison system is not working. Legislating for prisoners’ diets and putting the onus on prison operators to provide those sorts of things will not fix it. 
How much consultation has there been with Maori? In respect of getting rid of the private prison in Auckland there has been absolutely none—diddly-squat. I understand that plenty of Maori are now lobbying the Maori caucus in the Labour Party and saying they do not want their people to go to prison or to go back to prison but if some of them do go to prison then they want them to come out better people than when they went in. The Te Puni Kokiri people—the closing the gaps people—in their report on 3 October 2002 were very very critical of the corrections service except for one thing: they really liked the private prison. They said that the private prison was actually doing some good. 
It does not matter if we send people away for 20 years or 30 years; one day they get to come out. That is the scary thing because if all we have done by locking people away for all those years is make them into worse criminals—into people who are more inclined to say: “I want I want I’ll take it.” which is what this bill is all about—then we will unleash on the poor unsuspecting community another criminal another rapist another murderer. That is what happens. 
So this bill much-lauded by members of the Labour Party—the wimpy white liberal set the people who wander around jump into their spa pools and drink their Chardonnays the people who are completely out of touch with ordinary New Zealanders— 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Like Clayton Cosgrove. 
JUDITH COLLINS 
: Like Clayton Cosgrove. What do these people say? They say: “We want to spend more on the prisons but we want to get less.” They want more money for less. That is what this Government wants. It wants 150 staff employed at the Auckland remand centre. It wants 150 Public Service Association members employed there. That is what this Government is all about. It does not want the 69 correctional officers currently working there because gee they might be a bit good. This Minister and his ministry are very concerned now to pick the brains of the general manager of the Auckland Central Remand Centre and his staff and to get those people to help them out with their own thing. That remand service already does health screening for chlamydia hepatitis and diabetes and our public service for all its money does nothing.