Edmonds BarbaraFinanceBARBARA EDMONDS (Deputy Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee): Thank you Mr Chair. Mālō e lelei Mr Chair. As deputy chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee I will take a brief call on Vote Finance that we as a committee examined for Estimates 2021-22 in June and July of this year—it seems a while ago. At these meetings the Finance and Expenditure Committee also considered the Fiscal Strategy Report 2021 which outlines the Government's strategy for Budget in the context of its long-term fiscal objectives and short-term fiscal intentions. We also considered the Treasury's Budget Economic and Fiscal Update 2021-22. I'll just cover a couple of the highlights of our committee's report and our discussions at the time.The committee noted that the appropriations sought for Vote Finance for 2021-22 totalled $8.59 billion. Like previous years debt servicing is the largest appropriation under Vote Finance with an allocation of $3.15 billion. The Minister at the meeting pointed to the fact that debt-servicing costs for Government are currently at historical lows. A good discussion occurred between members and the Minister during this committee meeting around debt-servicing costs. The committee discussed at length this appropriation. The starting point set out by the Secretary to the Treasury was that before the pandemic New Zealand had one of the most sustainable debt positions in the world. We note in the report that our debt to GDP ratio as explained by Secretary Caralee McLiesh was 19 percent in 2019 and this allowed the Government to borrow heavily but sustainably to finance the fiscal response to the epidemic shock brought on by COVID-19. That includes the wage subsidy which I know from a number of businesses has kept their connection with their employees and kept their business going as we move out of alert levels. The Minister also explained that if New Zealand's debt to GDP ratio does reach 48 percent as forecast it would still be substantially lower than almost any other comparable country in the OECD.Some members of the committee did raise concerns around the Government's spending and if interest rates increased the higher debt may come with it. But an important note in our committee report was the response by the Minister which was the recognition that at some point in the future although interest rates will increase as forecasted that he has struck the right balance to support the economy through fiscal policy while keeping debt at a sustainable level in case interest rates on Government debt were to rise. So I go back to that important starting point by the Secretary of Treasury that we started off in one of the most sustainable debt positions in the OECD at 19 percent in 2019.Probably the second most significant appropriation in Vote Finance is the Superannuation Fund contribution. Vote Finance is an allocation of $2.2 billion. The committee noted that this is an increase of $300 million from 2020-21 and an increase on previous years by an additional $600 million. It is at this point where I want to turn towards the questions that I wanted to ask the Minister and I'll also just quickly highlight some of the other areas that we did look at as part of the report. We've seen in previous economic shocks—in particular the global financial crisis—that previous Governments can make a policy decision to stop these contributions to the super fund. This Government had made a conscious decision for two reasons to actually recontribute to that fund: one is part of the 2017 election mandate that they were given to reinstate contributions for the future sustainability of the fund but also too during this particular economic shock they decided to continue those contributions. It's a very different policy decision and we had talked with the Minister about this.So my question to the Minister around the Superannuation Fund is: what is the process to actually decide the amount that is contributed to the fund and how does this factor in the decision to stop contributions under previous National Government policy decisions and essentially the return to what was contributed before the contributions were stopped? So I'll go back to that question for the Minister but quickly I'll also highlight some of the other areas that we looked at as part of this report.CHAIRPERSON (Rt Hon Trevor Mallard): The member's got about one minute. I was a bit slow with the clock.BARBARA EDMONDS: One minute—OK. So I'll be really quick. So we did also look at around the climate change and fiscal policy the financing of climate change policies and the New Zealand Green Investment Fund. We also asked the Minister for an update around the social unemployment insurance issue which I'm sure we may ask him some further questions on later on in this debate.We also looked at housing and asked questions around housing and the modelling for housing. The Secretary to the Treasury at the time—and we commented in the report that given the shock there's always some uncertainty when it comes to fiscal modelling around house prices. We've also as a committee looked at that further with the Reserve Bank and also we've been really fortunate that both the Reserve Bank and Treasury have done some outside-of-meeting policy workshops for us.So probably the other two issues we looked at was the ongoing holiday pay issue and also the global company tax returns. It's all covered within our fiscal strategy report and our report back from the Finance and Expenditure Committee back in July 2021.So I go back to the question that I asked the Minister around the super fund which is: how do we get to that amount and how do we essentially get back to the contributions that we had before the decision to stop the contributions was made? Thank you Minister.