English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:615;Page:11216] 
7.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Why are the educational benefits of network reviews large enough to proceed with decisions on 71 school closures this term but not large enough to justify any more school network reviews? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 I want to start by thanking the member opposite for his description of my previous policy as being sensible. In the current review areas there are around 11000 spare student places and further roll decline is predicted. Making the changes as proposed would if they proceeded according to that approach unlock about $90 million for those schools to provide quality education. I will however work carefully through each of those individual decisions. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister understand the anger of parents who are not interested in the $90 million but who find themselves in the position where it turns out that whether their schools are closed depends not on educational standards but on Labour’s poll ratings? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The last part of the question is absolutely incorrect. [ 
Interruption 
] The answer to the first part of the question is “Yes.” 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Because of the raucous laughter I did not actually hear what answer the Minister gave to the first part of the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The laughter came from the member’s own side of the House and I did not interrupt it. But the member is perfectly correct. I heard the Minister say that the answer to the first part of the question was “Yes.” I myself heard it quite clearly. 
Lynne Pillay 
: Is the Minister aware of any alternative approaches to school network reviews? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes. I have seen newspaper articles that suggest that all the 126 one-teacher schools all the 129 schools that will receive supplementary reviews from the Education Review Office and all the over 400 schools with more than 30 percent spare capacity should be subject to a review. I will not adopt the suggestions that Bill English has made. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Can the Minister confirm that between 1996 and 1999 when National Ministers were in charge of education—and notwithstanding a softening of policy by New Zealand First—95 schools were closed or merged whilst between 2000 and 2003 82 schools were closed? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I do not have all those figures here but I know that the member is an expert and that he can tell hypocrisy when he sees it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not like that word being used. The member will withdraw the word “hypocrisy”. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I withdraw. 
Metiria Turei 
: What does the Minister have to say to the parents and pupils who have marched to Parliament today in opposition to his plans to close their schools? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The key point is that each of these decisions will be made on its merits. That is the point I have made to them. 
Deborah Coddington 
: Will the Minister tell the parents of children at the 71 schools that are still under threat—such as Kaiata School on the West Coast and Kapuni School in coastal Taranaki which are represented in the gallery today and in hundreds of signatures on these petitions—that the reviews of their schools will not proceed; if not why not? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No I will not because they have proceeded a long way down a track they have caused a lot of hurt in those communities and what I want to do is make sure that the quality of education in those areas is improved. In most areas there is a lot of room for that to happen. 
Murray Smith 
: How can the Minister possibly justify abandoning because of strong public opposition school reviews that are yet to be announced while proceeding with the closure of the very schools from which that strong public opposition has come? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I have previously and easily. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister understand yet that it is his bullying and smart alec attitude that has excited so much opposition; and why should his colleagues believe he will be any more successful as the Minister of race relations than he has been as the Minister of Education? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: They would probably look at Gerry Brownlee and decide it fairly easily. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a satisfactory answer. I would like the Minister to give an answer. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: There are two quite different areas that we are talking about. On the question of race relations I will listen to members in the way that I listened to that member when he promoted the closure of his local schools. 
Murray Smith 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not hear the Minister’s answer to my question but it has just been relayed to me. By simply making a disparaging comment about me the Minister has certainly not addressed the question that I asked. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member said he did not hear the answer. I did not hear a disparaging comment about the member at all. Had I done so I would have intervened. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The member who heard a disparaging comment did not hear it from the Minister; it was Mr Prebble describing him as a doormat—that is what he heard. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is where we get into trouble. I do not mind the odd interjection during answers—I never have—but I want to say that that is as far as this particular issue will go. 
Gordon Copeland 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I thoroughly agree with your ruling. But that comment coming from such an experienced member of Parliament who knows that it now goes in  
Hansard 
 is a bit like our deciding to record that he is a “zoneophobe” or something. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: For those people who read  
Hansard 
 avidly I am sure it might well be a point. I have approximately 200 volumes at my place that anyone who is willing to do so can come and take away for free. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not certain what a “zoneophobe” is but if it means “good” I am it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Perhaps the translator could help us? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no no. I am ruling that we are moving on. 
Hon Bill English 
: Will the Minister give a commitment today to the 71 schools he has proposed for closure that he will listen to the anger of those communities and scale back the range of those closures? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Yes I will listen and I will treat each case on its rational merits based not on noise but on quality of argument. 
I seek leave to table the article in which Mr English outlines which schools he would close. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that article. Is there any objection? There is.