Swarbrick Chlöe; Tinetti JanCHLÖE SWARBRICK (Green—Auckland Central): Well in mid-2001 the then Victoria University of Wellington Students' Association (VUWSA) president sent out a press release titled: Student Debt Set to Cripple New Zealand". That association president lamented "The current generation of politicians are mortgaging the future of our country. The burden of this will not only be felt by students who graduate with large debts but also by the future taxpayers of New Zealand who will be left to clean up the mess … If we are to get this debt under control fees must come down and access to living allowances will have to increase". That is a quote from then VUWSA president now Prime Minister of this country the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins.The reason that I raise this is that parliamentarians may be aware that this afternoon on Parliament's lawn there was yet another rally to stop the cuts at our universities. I want to acknowledge the Minister for the work that we've both engaged in over the past few months and particularly what led to the announcement of the $128 million if we were actually to have seen student enrolment figures at the level that they were once projected to be. But the Minister will be well aware of the fact that there are still universities across this country that are making substantive proposals with regard to staff cuts. So that is my first question to the Minister: what kind of engagement is she having with those tertiary institutions about what options may be available to them to retain those staff or to work through a pathway over the next year whereby these cuts slow down and we can make more strategic decisions?I'm also aware that if not this Minister former Ministers of Education have commissioned advice on for example a universal student allowance and the cost of its provisions particularly I'd note with the advocacy of us doggedly chasing that bone as the Greens in the Education and Workforce Committee. To that effect I guess thinking about a universal student allowance and obviously the fact that approximately a third of students get access to it at present. And just kind of the intersection with that issue around student enrolment figures and the flow-on impact to the tertiary funding that is being received. Where is the place of students and what kind of engagement and meaningful evidence has been collected on student hardship to try and understand how that is then impacting students' ability to actually be enrolled in their study in the first place and therefore through the bums on seats funding model the funding that these tertiary institutions are then getting access to?So just to make that really clear: the key kind of issues that I'm interested in here are—noting that the Minister has worked really hard to get that $128 million reallocation—there are still substantive job cuts that are being proposed so what can be done and what work is the Minister undertaking to ensure that those do not progress? Secondly what is the role of students and understanding of students' needs when it comes to this funding model at present? And has there been any investigation of dealing with student poverty to then deal with student enrolment figures? And then thirdly I guess dovetailing into that all nicely: where is the review at that was promised of the tertiary education funding model?Hon JAN TINETTI (Minister of Education): Just before I come to those I've got another couple of answers that I said that I would come back on. So with the unified funding system the initial tactical implementation was completed and up and running on 1 January 2023. The strategic long-term solution is on track for 1 January 2025. Under 20 percent of the budget has been used so far. Now Peacocke: two sites have been identified. Currently negotiating with developers. I can't say any more than that because it is commercially sensitive.Can I also thank the member there for her engagement in this and her advocacy for students in the tertiary sector—a long-time advocate—and someone that I enjoy having discussions with about because of your understanding of the sector as well and of the students' needs. Just what I was saying before: when I talk about agency I talk about agency at all levels. And I think when we encourage and engage with the young people—I'm going to say young people; they're not all young people. But when we engage with them the learners we also know that we're getting that input and it's going to work for them because we're having them.Look I've met with the hierarchy of New Zealand Union of Students' Associations. We've had initial discussions just at a ministerial level. It's not me that's working through that next stage but I will say that the higher education review officials are currently arranging engagement with the students as well. Those terms of reference are going to come back in by the end of the year. So basically taking time to get that right. I know it's a rushed situation because there's pressure on it but at the same time we don't want to get a situation that doesn't encompass all of the solutions that we need to see [removes glasses]—I'll take those off so I can see you properly—to help identify everything. This is an opportunity. I don't want to get to the end of it and then we hear "Oh look why didn't we think about this at the time too?" So the member is also going to be very important in that part of the discussion.You talk about the tertiary institution cuts. So one of the aspects that you will know at the time when we made the announcement about the $128 million which understandably became the big focus at the time that that was it but in my head the more important parts—or just as important parts—were the review but also the fact that we were looking at network provision across the network to make certain that we weren't losing that provision and that was unduly impacting upon students in different institutions as well. So that advice is about to go through to Cabinet around that so I can't discuss that here. But we're very very close to being able to look at where we're at with that and if there's any follow-up that's needed to make certain that those learners have that provision that's there and that we're not losing that across the network. So that's where that's at."