Turei Metiria: Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons) Amendment Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Third Reading 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Turei Metiria: Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons) Amendment Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee Third Reading 
[Sitting date: 24 November 2009. Volume:659;Page:8100. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) 
: 
 I know that I have Labour Party colleagues who have not yet had the opportunity to make a contribution to the debate on the Corrections (Contract Management of Prisons) Amendment Bill so I appreciate the opportunity to do so. 
I refer to a comment that the Minister in the chair Judith Collins made. She compared a prison to a grocery store or the local dairy down the road. I do not know what a Minister of Corrections—a Minister who is responsible for one of the most serious parts of the Public Service and responsible for the policy that deals with some of the most serious issues of safety and the rehabilitation of those who are involved in criminal offending—could possibly have in her mind such that she could compare a prison to a grocery store. I guess that is just what we have to live with with a National Government that puts a person who would think like that in a position of such responsibility. There has been some discussion—[ 
Interruption 
] The Minister herself said it. If the public are to have any sense of security about who is running the policy behind one of the most important parts of the Public Service and the machinery of Government it is important that they know. If the Minister is prepared to stand up in this Chamber and compare prisons to grocery stores be it on her own head if other members in this Chamber then make it obvious— 
Carmel Sepuloni 
: Talking about apples and apples and apples and oranges. 
METIRIA TUREI 
: Yes she was talking about apples and apples and apples and oranges. It is her own fault if other MPs make sure that that is highlighted for the information of the public. It is after all their community. It is after all their machinery of the State that is being messed around with by this Government. 
There has been a lot of discussion about the economics of private prisons. We know for a fact that private prisons are more expensive in this country. We know from research overseas that there has been a failure of private prisons either to be cheaper or to both return quality services and be cheaper. The United States Department of Justice report that I have referred to in other contexts  
Emerging Issues on Privatized Prisons 
 clearly showed that the privatisation models simply mimicked the public sector in practically every way essentially saying that there was no innovation at all in the private sector. All of the new innovation and all of the new ideas were coming out of the public sector and they were simply mimicked by the private provision. 
The report also said that promises that were made by private companies in the US of 20 percent savings did not happen. Those savings were not provided despite all of the promises. Although there were some modest savings of less than 20 percent they were made by reducing staff conditions and other labour-related costs. The Minister said earlier that one of her priorities was keeping staff safe but we know that the policy of the Minister and the Government includes double-bunking for example. She is now engaging with private prisons where staff will find it more difficult to work in an environment where their conditions and their pay are the priority. They will not be the priority for the private company; the bottom line will be the priority for the private company. The way the company gets access to a bigger bottom line to more profit will be hidden from the public. One of the things that will be hidden from the public is the staffing conditions and wages. 
We can see that that is the case not only in the evidence from the United States Department of Justice but also in reports from Australia. The “Privatisation and New South Wales Prisons: Value for Money and Neo-liberal Regulation” report showed that privatisation in New South Wales did not result in value for money or a significant reduction in cost. So even closer to home just in Australia we know that the economic arguments do not pan out. 
David Garrett was yelling out earlier about how staff of the GEO Group - run Auckland Central Remand Prison brought to the select committee views and information that there was hiding of their contractual requirements in order to avoid getting fines and penalties for failing to meet those requirements. He said there was no evidence.