Hughes Gareth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hughes Gareth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:678;Page:1501] 
4. 
GARETH HUGHES (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Energy and Resources 
: Will he implement a nationwide moratorium on new fracking wells until the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment can assure the public it is safe? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY (Minister of Energy and Resources) 
: 
 No. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Would it not make sense to wait for the results of the investigation before allowing new fracking wells to go ahead given the Minister has said in the media that the investigation “will answer some questions that have been unanswered”? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: It did not make sense to stop using 1080 when the commissioner was looking into the use of 1080. Subsequently the commissioner found that the use of 1080 was probably sensible. In the same way it is a bit silly to stop everything just because the Greens want to stop everything. Inquiries are going on. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Why will the Minister not wait for the questions to be answered when the East Coast Hawke’s Bay and Horizons regions will be considering their first fracking wells in those regions shortly? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: Hydraulic fracturing has been used in New Zealand for well over two decades and appears to have been well managed. That is what I have been advised. We did not stop the use of 1080 when the commissioner was looking at that so I think the member is getting ahead of himself in my view by asking for a moratorium on hydraulic fracturing which has been going on for a long time as well. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Given that the Gisborne District Council has admitted it does not have the expertise to regulate fracking and TAG Oil is pursuing what it itself describes as an aggressive programme there why will he not implement a nationwide moratorium on new fracking wells until the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment can assure Kiwis it is safe? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: Because hydraulic fracturing has been undertaken for well over two decades in Taranaki successfully on the face of it all the information that is put towards me and the expertise in Taranaki from both industry and the regulators such as the Taranaki Regional Council and from my officials can certainly be transferred to Gisborne should that be necessary. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Is the fracking issue different from the 1080 issue and was there a cusp of a massive expansion of 1080 use at the time of the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report into that? Given that we have seen a 170 percent increase in new fracking wells in just the last year alone in New Zealand compared with the last 18 years and that this Government has permitted 4 million hectares of New Zealand land to be used for fracking why will he not wait until the results are in? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: Hydraulic fracturing is different from the use of 1080. I hope the House understands that. But also hydraulic fracturing— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: The man’s a genius! 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: Well I could explain the difference and actually I am happy to give the member a briefing on the difference between the use of 1080 and hydraulic fracturing should he approach my staff. 
Gareth Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know I cannot raise a point of order in respect of flippant answers. But the question was not: “What is the difference between fracking and 1080?”. It was about the situations at the points in time when the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment was investigating both controversial topics. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I invite the member to repeat his question because the answer did get a fair way away from the member’s question. I invite him to repeat his question. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Is there a difference between the situation where the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment investigated the use of 1080 and were we then on the cusp of a massive expansion in the use of 1080? Given that with fracking we have seen a 170 increase in new wells in the last year and that this Government has permitted 4 million hectares of new Kiwi land to be used for fracking will he wait until the results are in on the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s investigation? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: I have made it clear why we are not going to have a moratorium on hydraulic fracturing while the commissioner investigates this. We will be very interested in her findings and certainly we will take them into account. I draw the comparison between the use of 1080 and hydraulic fracturing in the sense that both are claimed to have significant environmental effects. Both might have significant use. But it would be fair to say that although 1080 use was not on the cusp of significant use throughout New Zealand it is in fact used very very widely in New Zealand and it is hard to see how you could actually increase its use. I accept that the comparison is not exactly apples with apples but I think I have made my point. We cannot stop everything just because an investigation is in place. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Given that we have seen well blowouts water contamination and consents being breached right now in Taranaki is it not prudent to wait until the results are in so we can answer those questions and make sure we have got regulations and practices to protect our water to protect our communities and to protect our health? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: Unfortunately whenever the member has put these claims to the media to my officials or even to an independent body such as the Taranaki Regional Council they have come back with substantial science to say that it is not in fact the case. In terms of water contamination the independent body Taranaki Regional Council went to Hill Laboratories which is independent too did water testing and found no effects on water quality. This is the point of the commissioner’s inquiry and that is why I welcome it. She will be able to determine the difference between fact and science and fiction and the Green Party. 
Gareth Hughes 
: I seek leave to table the Shell Todd Oil Kapuni study from 2007 jointly published by the Taranaki Regional Council and Shell Todd Oil which showed water contamination from the Kapuni wells. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Gareth Hughes 
: I seek leave to table the Cheal Petroleum report from 2011 also jointly published with the Taranaki Regional Council which showed water contamination from those wells as well. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Gareth Hughes 
: Given that the hydrocarbons are not going anywhere what is the rush to frack them? 
Hon PHIL HEATLEY 
: The member may not have walked along Lambton Quay this morning but actually there are cars and trucks there and all over the world that are using oil and gas reserves. I believe that the member has used such transport facilities. The reality is there is a world demand for oil and gas. If we can access that oil and gas in New Zealand sell it get the royalties and the tax income build better schools and hospitals and create jobs I think we should.