Penk Chris; Rurawhe AdrianCHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi): Thank you very much Mr Chair and to the Minister for the opportunity to engage. I do want to ask a couple of questions about legal aid. He's no doubt aware from various members of the profession including to the highest levels that they're very worried about the legal aid system. I should acknowledge that there are longstanding issues over successive Governments but I think it's also fair to note that the issues have been getting worse. You know in the time that I've been the courts spokesperson for the Opposition and therefore the Minister and his colleagues have been in Government it has been getting worse generally and then exacerbated by COVID as well and a number of other factors.So my questions for the Minister are: whether he first acknowledges the depth of the problem with the legal aid system first of all and second what steps he has taken if any—and if not then what steps he intends to take—to reverse the very serious difficulties that we've heard outlined even to the point that the whole system is facing collapse with very few practitioners willing and able to undertake that work; the inability to have juniors to assist with those files; and the age frankly with all due respect of some of the practitioners who are doing that work—and good on them doing the lord's own work in that space but the inevitable result that they won't be available in a few years. So any comments the Minister can make in this space would be appreciated.Hon KRIS FAAFOI (Minister of Justice): Thank you. Just to Nicole McKee the number is 11 not nine. Close but not quite precise. So they are the number of facilities that don't have audiovisual facilities available to them. But stressing the point: the vast majority of the courthouses at other facilities do. So again I think for efficient justice that is good to have those resources there.To the question here yes I do acknowledge the issue. I do acknowledge that it is longstanding. I'm not making that as a political point but I do think the momentum of a long-term issue has meant that I think it's quite precise now. I acknowledge it's been raised as an issue probably for the last five or six years by the profession. I've spoken to the Chief Justice about it. The outgoing or the former president of the Law Society strongly advocated for it in her time as the president and as my time as the Minister of Justice obviously undertook that review or the survey that showed just how difficult it was and how much voluntary time lawyers were putting into it.So being an annual review I can't look too much further forward but I do acknowledge that it is an issue and also I guess in retaining and attracting capacity to legal aid within the legal service. I've heard many a story from district law societies around the country about how challenging it is to make sure that they can staff legal aid rosters and I guess as far as issues go it's right up there in the top three to make sure that we're aware of the demands.CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Members it's come time for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. When the committee resumes at 7 p.m. we will have the Minister of Immigration in the chair.Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7 p.m.