6. Question No. 6—PoliceGINNY ANDERSEN (Labour—Hutt South) to the Minister of PoliceQuestion No. 6—Police6. GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour—Hutt South) to the Minister of Police: What recent announcements has she made regarding combating organised crime?Hon POTO WILLIAMS (Minister of Police): [Uses sign language] Thank you Mr Speaker. This morning alongside the Minister of Justice I announced a range of new tools to aid police in their fight against organised crime. The Government will make it illegal for high-risk people to own firearms by introducing the firearms prohibition orders (FPO). FPOs will protect the public from harm by prohibiting high-risk people from accessing being around or using firearms. Breaching these conditions of a firearms prohibition order will be a criminal offence. Alongside this the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act will be amended to introduce a new power-enabling seizure of assets of those associated with organised crime where the person's known legitimate income is likely to have been insufficient to acquire the asset. This Government is taking meaningful action to make sure that we keep our communities safe.Ginny Andersen: Who will be targeted by the Government's firearms prohibition orders regime?Hon POTO WILLIAMS: It's no secret that gun crime is an increasing concern in our communities and we need to take further action to make sure that New Zealanders and their families are kept safe. FPOs will protect the public from harm by prohibiting high-risk people from accessing being around or using firearms. High-risk people include those who commit serious firearms offences serious violence offences an offence of participating in an organised criminal group and terrorism-related offences.Ginny Andersen: How will amendments made to the Criminal Proceeds (Recovery) Act further disrupt organised crime?Hon POTO WILLIAMS: Police are hitting gangs where it hurts—their pockets. The new organised crime power will help prevent those involved in organised crime from benefiting from crime and remove the primary reason for organised crime to exist—profit. Police have recently undertaken Operation Cartwright / Chanute in Dunedin which has resulted in the arrest of four people for various drug offences and seized $115000 in cash and eight firearms and restrained an estimated $4.8 million in illicitly gained assets. Operation Oats in Whangārei has resulted in two arrests for drug activity and restrained an estimated $1 million in illicitly gained assets. Operation Bronco in Flat Bush has seized 6 kilograms of ephedrine 2260 grams of methamphetamine and $1.07 million in cash.David Seymour: When announcing her policy was the Minister aware that the ACT Party had announced and advocated a near-identical policy for six months before she announced it?Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I thank the ACT member for that question and welcome his support of this particular piece of legislation.David Seymour: Point of order. The question was about the Minister's awareness. She didn't address that. She just thanked us for support which we haven't even given yet because we haven't seen the detail.SPEAKER: I think it was implicit in the reply that she was aware of what the member was talking about. [Interruption] I will remind the member he can't require a yes/no answer—longstanding Speakers' rulings.David Seymour: Point of order.SPEAKER: A new point of order?David Seymour: Well no Mr Speaker I just seek for the benefit of the people at home—when you say that it was implicit are you saying that it sounded like she was saying yes or no?SPEAKER: I'm not going to answer for the Minister.Simeon Brown: Does she agree with the Police Association who have said that firearm prohibition orders without search powers are useless and if so will the Government's legislation include warrantless search powers?Hon POTO WILLIAMS: No we won't. But what I do want to say to this House is that the member's bill didn't include these either.Rawiri Waititi: What is the Minister going to do about the recent incident in Taupō where police violently used excessive force in arresting a 14-year-old Māori child digging their knee into the child's neck?SPEAKER: Order! That's not an area for which there's ministerial responsibility.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Supplementary—Rawiri Waititi: Point of order.SPEAKER: Well which one?Rawiri Waititi: Point of order.SPEAKER: Sorry it's just—your colleague was standing up as well. Rawiri Waititi.Rawiri Waititi: Age before beauty. Anyway this is entirely her responsibility. No? She's the Minister of Police.SPEAKER: Yes and the Minister of Police does not have responsibility for operational matters. Debbie—Chris Bishop: Point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: Well—sorry. I've just got a slight reluctance here when a certain member's been going for the call on a number of occasions. Debbie Ngarewa-Packer.Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Kia ora. Supplementary—SPEAKER: Oh sorry—sorry. I didn't realise it was a supplementary. A point of order. Chris Bishop: Well that may well be the case Mr Speaker in relation to operational matters. That is for the Minister to say. I have previously been a police spokesperson in this House and have asked dozens of questions around live police—well not live operations but operations in the past that the Minister is clearly responsible for. So it's for the Minister to say whether or not something's an operational matter and she declines to comment; not for you Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: Well it may well be that the member has asked those questions or has made comments in those areas or has seen them but it has been the long-term decisions of Speakers in this House that the Minister's actions and stuff that she has done are her responsibility—Chris Bishop: Point of order.SPEAKER: Well am I allowed to finish or not?Chris Bishop: I thought you had sorry.SPEAKER: There has been a longstanding approach in this House whereby Ministers are asked about Government policies their actions and their resourcing. Their views on whether a matter should be taken further especially where there is a possibility of prosecution has been long ruled out in this area and I'll see if I can find the relative—Hon Simon Bridges: He won't.SPEAKER: Who said that?Hon Simon Bridges: I did.SPEAKER: Right—the member who's just about to leave the Chamber. Hon Simon Bridges: I'm being asked to leave the Chamber am I Mr Speaker?SPEAKER: Yes you are.Hon Simon Bridges withdrew from the Chamber. SPEAKER: Speaker's ruling 169/2 is probably a good place to look. Chris Bishop: Point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: A further point of order. Chris Bishop: Look we are going to get into difficulty here because Ministers are responsible for the actions of their departments. To take an analogy for example if I asked Minister Hipkins around the actions or statements made by Dr Bloomfield as the Director-General of Health that would clearly be—I think we would all agree in the House—within the scope of questions that would be allowed to be asked and answered in question time. Likewise the actions of—to take Corrections for example—the chief executive of the Department of Corrections in response to activities undertaken by corrections officers or prison management for example I think would clearly be within scope as well. So is it your position Mr Speaker that the actions of officials or the actions of public sector agencies that the Minister doesn't have operational responsibility for but has responsibility to the House for are not able to be asked questions about because that would be I think quite a stretch and really I think we would have quite some difficulty with that in the Opposition. SPEAKER: The answer to the member's question is no. Rawiri Waititi: I ask the Minister: what is her view as Minister of the recent action of police in Taupō? Hon POTO WILLIAMS: There's no doubt that that case is very distressing for all concerned. I believe it's a matter of investigation with the Independent Police Conduct Authority—it may have already been determined—and that is the appropriate place. What I can comment on though is the work that the police are doing to recognise the disproportionate arrest rates for Māori and Pacific and I support the work that they are doing to look at how they speak to and stop people and how they make their charging decisions. I think that speaks to a broader programme of work that the police are undertaking to ensure that we do everything we can to reduce the rates of arrest for Māori and Pacific. Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: What is the Minister doing to address the fact that the police pull guns on Māori children 3.8 times more than any other ethnicity nationally and 16 times more in Whanganui—100 percent being Māori? Hon POTO WILLIAMS: I just want to reiterate that I applaud the work that the police are doing to understand how it is that we have got these disproportionate rates against Māori and Pacific. At the end of the day we are talking about our whānau and our people. I support the police in looking at how they stop and speak to individuals and their charging decisions as part of the broader piece of work that they are doing in terms of institutional and other unconscious bias. This is work that is difficult but the police are owning up to the fact that there have been decisions and conduct in the past that has not been helpful in this situation and I support that they are looking at this work.