Power Simon: Corrections Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee 
Power Simon: Corrections Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee 
[Volume:652;Page:1363] 
Hon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 I listened with interest to what Jacinda Ardern had to say about various aspects of Part 1 of the Corrections Amendment Bill (No 2). In a former life I was on the Law and Order Committee which considered this bill. I thought members might be interested in understanding a little more of the background to clause 6 which—interestingly enough—is the clause relating to religious and spiritual needs. This is by and large the “Catholic clause”— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Careful! 
Hon SIMON POWER 
: I tell Mr Cosgrove that I am not criticising it; I am one of them. At the time we asked the then Minister of Corrections Damien O’Connor about it. Going by his surname one would think he would have a bit of an interest in this clause. Clause 6 is particularly interesting because it amends section 79 of the Corrections Act by adding subsection (3): “Section 129(a)”—which presumably contains a restriction on alcohol in prisons—“does not apply to a prisoner who during a religious service (whether inside or outside a prison) (a) consumes a small quantity of wine provided at the service by a prison chaplain or minister of religion for the purposes of the Eucharist Holy Communion Mass or Communion with the express authority of the prison manager or chief executive;”. There was quite a lot of debate in relation to the phrase “whether inside or outside a prison” about why any prisoner would be consuming wine outside a prison and it was the subject of an interesting discussion. 
I recall that the new subsection prompted quite a lengthy discussion at the select committee about other religious affiliations whose followers might want to participate in a particular ritual or ceremony that might or might not involve a small amount of alcohol. Then from my memory there was quite a lengthy discussion about whether these prisoners would be able to get hold of large quantities of these particular imbibements—if that is the right word. We had quite a long discussion about how much wine would be consumed while the ceremony was undertaken. More particularly we discussed what it meant for religious orders that might have another— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Did you take a practical test? 
Hon SIMON POWER 
: Well it was an interesting discussion about whether we were in effect allowing prisoners with a religious affiliation that involved consumption of a small amount of wine—whether Catholic or Anglican; I am sorry but I am not too good at getting past the Catholic rituals; I am not sure what the other rituals involve—to consume alcohol. 
As I recall it a further discussion about how much alcohol was involved became quite interesting and lengthy. We ended up talking—and I am getting to the point—about the reason for paragraph (b) of new subsection (3): “consumes a small quantity of wine or other alcohol provided at the service as part of the ritual of the religion in question by the person conducting the service”. The problem was that we had created an exception for people who were being held courtesy of Her Majesty in one of our prisons but we also had to make an exception in statute in order for the visitors to the prison—the persons conducting the service—to be able to consume as part of the ceremony being undertaken. Once we had sorted out how the inmates could consume a small amount of wine as part of a religious service we then had quite a lengthy discussion about how the people coming from outside the prison with the alcohol or wine were themselves able to consume it. 
Then it got tricky: what if the person conducting the ceremony was an inmate? The question then became: where did that person get the alcohol from? Members can imagine that things moved all over the place in discussion of Part 1 although as Jacinda Ardern pointed out we had very straightforward discussions about the search of property prisoners in cells and staff lockers. At that time there was quite a concern that prison officials themselves may have been involved in the trafficking of contraband into prisons. There were lengthy discussions around issues relating to telecommunications and the like. But I can tell the Committee that we spent a comparatively great deal of time on the issue of whether there should be alcohol in prisons at all. 
It took quite a lot of time to craft paragraphs (a) and (b) of new subsection (3). Members will notice that in the original bill there was only the one subsection which went like this: “does not apply to a prisoner who during a religious service (whether inside or outside a prison)”—I could never get my head around the “outside a prison” bit—“consumes wine provided at the service by a prison chaplain or minister of religion for the purposes of the Eucharist Holy Communion Mass or Communion.” We had to get rid of that subsection—split it into paragraphs (a) and (b)—to make sure we caught both potential breaches. 
There was then a much wider discussion about religious services that did not involve wine. It got trickier because there was the question of whether inmates were legitimately participating in these ceremonies or were using them to divorce themselves from the day-to-day running of prison routines—seeing the ceremonies as a way through the process of serving time in prison. I think I recall a discussion about the genuineness of participation in these particular areas. As the Hon Clayton Cosgrove will know if there is participation for example in a Catholic service certain things need to have occurred during the participant’s life: a first Holy Communion and—I guess at a later stage—confirmation although— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Baptism comes first. 
Hon SIMON POWER 
: Oh baptism does come first; Mr Cosgrove is quite right. So members can see that these sorts of bills often appear straightforward at first and as if they are the sort of legislation that could not possibly be opposed—and we do not oppose this; we think that the final realisation by Labour that it had to do something in this area was to be welcomed—but I again draw the Committee’s attention to this point: it is often the smallest clauses in the most effective bills that deserve the most attention.