Paul Tamatha; Goldsmith Paul; Tuiono TeanauTAMATHA PAUL (Green—Wellington Central): Kia ora. My questions refer back to the Minister's answers that he provided on clause 3A but were supposed to be for clause 4. I wanted to ask firstly whether the Minister could tell us more about who he understands to be preparing cultural reports? Because I didn't get an answer to that. The Minister spoke specifically about Harry Tam preparing cultural reports so my question is around understanding why that's a problem. Why is it a problem that somebody who understands the cultural backgrounds that a lot of people who are being sentenced have experienced—whether they're born into gang whānau. I would remind the Minister you don't get to choose which family you're born into. If you're born into a gang whānau well there's nothing you can do about that. So I want to understand why is it a problem that Harry Tam is trying to make sure that people have more reasonable and more effective sentences that actually address the cause of the crime as opposed to somebody creating these reports who has no concept no reality of what a majority of people who are incarcerated go through and what their backgrounds and upbringings look like. So what's the problem with that?The reason I want to know that too is because I've heard senior members of this Government talking a lot about Harry Tam and it seems to me like there's a real beef with him as an individual. To me this bill is consistent with this Government's approach to cracking down on gangs but not actually speaking to the people who have mana in that area. You can talk to people who are leaders in that space who have been helpful in achieving the goals of this House. You look at the influential gang leaders who supported the Government in making sure that more members of their community were vaccinated during the COVID-19 lockdown. You can look at the woman chapter of the Mongrel Mob who are working to address violence that has happened through the State system and addressing those. There's a whole lot of good stuff that is also happening and you could talk to them and ask them whether they think that some of these rules will actually be effective. Because you can't make rules about people and expect them to follow those rules without actually talking to them in the first place.My third question was just repeating the question that Willow-Jean asked around the accreditation system and whether you considered whether there could be a system whereby particular people were able to prepare these section 27 reports as opposed to just throwing the baby out with the bathwater altogether.Something else that you mentioned in one of your answers was that section 27 cultural reports are a very small part of the legal aid distribution. I wanted to understand a bit more why it's being targeted under urgency. Is it because those reports are ones which support minority communities? Because it seems like this Government's got legislation going through this week that targets gang members again. That's 8000 in our country—8000 people out of 5 million people. Again this is a bill that targets a very small portion of the legal aid fund and what I'm trying to understand is what is the rationale behind your approach to law and order when it affects such a small number of people? Particularly when the small number of people that are impacted are minority communities—communities that are already overrepresented in our justice system: Māori Pacific people poor people and people who are born into gangs or are in gangs. Those are the people who are being targeted by these law and order moves. So those are my questions and I hope that you'll be able to address them. Thank you.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice): Look the only thing I'd say to that member is of course Māori are disproportionately victims of crime as well and they have as much interest as anybody else in society of ensuring that we restore law and order and that there are consequences for serious crime and that people are held to account for their actions because everybody in New Zealand has an equal interest in ensuring that we are able to live in a peaceful and safe community. So I don't accept that different groups in society don't have an interest in ensuring that we live safely and peacefully in our communities. In so far as this bill has an impact on any particular group of New Zealanders it certainly is aimed to benefit all New Zealanders. So that is our focus there.CHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono): Members the House is suspended for dinner and will resume at 7.30.Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.