Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 13 March 2013. Volume:688;Page:8466. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
5. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: Does he stand by his statement in relation to drought-stricken farmers that “I wasn’t referring to climate change. It’s just that if it turned out that there was a succession of droughts there’s no amount of government assistance that can offset that effect on farming”? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 Yes. Although the Greens think they own climate change in fact climate has been fluctuating for ever including in the last 40 or 50 years and farmers have several times had to change their farming practices according to longer periods of drier or wetter summers and that is the point I was making. Government assistance for droughts is in no way intended to take pressure off farmers to adapt their farming practice if that is what is required by weather patterns. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he agree with the Government’s own research body the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA) when it states: “Droughts are projected to become more frequent and more intense under climate change.”? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: I would not want to question the scientific effort that has gone into that although there is always uncertainty about these predictions. I recall similar predictions made by similar scientific bodies in Australia just 4 or 5 years ago and it has not stopped raining since. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he accept that human-induced climate change is real? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: It may well be but I am not sure what that has got to do with this particular question. The fact is that the Government is assisting farmers with short-term emergency-type assistance through a drought. If there is a succession of droughts farmers would need to change their farming practice; Government assistance will not protect them from the consequences of it. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he understand that what it has to do with this question is that if climate change is happening and it is human-caused we will face more droughts and more intense droughts? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: That could turn out to be the case. The point I am making is that fluctuating climate is not new to farmers. It might be a recent discovery by the Greens as a way of making political points but farmers have for a few hundred years actually been adapting their farming practice according to relatively short cycles of weather change. In the 1970s there was a run of droughts. Later on in the 1980s there was a run of quite wet summers and farming practice changed significantly. It may have to change again. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: If New Zealand is facing more droughts and more intense droughts because of climate change why is his Government doing nothing to reduce New Zealand’s greenhouse emissions and at an international level why is it undermining international efforts to cut greenhouse emissions? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: Well the member is simply wrong. I could run through the whole range of initiatives including the Government continuing to implement the emissions trading system which the Greens were part of creating. The result of course is quite striking. When the Greens were supporting a Labour Government emissions were going up rapidly; since that Government went out emissions have flattened or dropped. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Why has the Government undermined international efforts to take action on climate change by refusing to make commitments under Kyoto II? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: We just do not agree with the member’s interpretation of that. I have to say though that the New Zealand Government is happy to be judged by what it does. Climate change is a policy area where there is an awful lot of rhetoric including coming from countries that have not taken anything like the decisive actions that the New Zealand Government has taken but we are happy to be judged by what we have done and there is quite a long list of it. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Is he aware that the New Zealand Government is being judged internationally and that as a result of the decision of his Government to not make binding commitments in the second Kyoto period New Zealand has been condemned internationally for undermining efforts to address climate change that causes more drought and more intense drought? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: I do not know what the member is referring to but I have to say sometimes I am a bit taken aback by the willingness of the Green Party and its global cohorts but particularly the New Zealand Green Party to condemn New Zealand Government policy from the safety of offshore conferences where everyone thinks that they agree the same things about climate change. The fact is that being condemned internationally by a handful of NGOs is not going to influence New Zealand Government policy. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: How is it consistent on the one hand for the Minister to say he cares about droughts and the impact of drought on farmers and on New Zealand when on the other hand in terms of climate change policy this Government has watered down the emissions trading scheme very significantly and in terms of international negotiations has made it much harder for international cooperation by refusing to make commitments under the Kyoto Protocol? 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: Well we think it is quite consistent to make the statements that I have made about our concern about drought and to continue to advance New Zealand’s contribution to reducing emissions. I might say that if the measurement is actual reduction in emissions then New Zealand is in a much better state 5 years on from the change of Government than we might have imagined even just 3 or 4 years ago. If the measurement is rhetoric about climate change then I accept the member’s criticism. We do not go on about it do not boast and do not try to inflate what we are doing. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: If climate change is having an effect on the New Zealand climate and producing more droughts and more intense droughts and the only way to really resolve it is through global action surely the Government should be leading in global action to address climate change instead of being dragged behind which would mean that New Zealand farmers would benefit from the actions of his Government instead of suffering as a result of them. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I call the Hon Bill English in so far as there is a question there. 
Hon BILL ENGLISH 
: I think if the member compares the actions of the New Zealand Government over the last 6 or 8 years actually with almost any other Government in the developed world you would find us near the top of the list for sensible climate change policy and near the top of the list for the actual change in emissions which ultimately is the measure of whether we are getting anywhere. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I seek leave to table a NIWA report on climate change scenarios for the Building Research Association of New Zealand study of the built environment— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Are NIWA reports available to members readily? 
Hon Members 
: Yes. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Then leave will not be put.