Mitchell MarkHon MARK MITCHELL (National—Rodney): Thank you Madam Chair. Look I just want to carry on from the Hon Gerry Brownlee's comments. Yeah there is an element of fun around it but this is actually very very serious. This bill totally I believe brings into question the value of having list MPs in this Parliament at all. I'm hoping that the Minister in the chair Andrew Little—he did this yesterday and I'm hoping that he'll do it again today—will stand and will take calls and will address the important issues that are being raised today.The reason why I say What value will a list MP bring to this Parliament; what real contribution will they be able to make; what independent thinking will they be able to apply to this Parliament?"—the reason why I raise this—is simply this and it comes back to the point that the Hon Gerry Brownlee made and he used Darroch Ball as an example.If Darroch Ball felt very strongly about a policy that his leader wanted to support and he didn't and he wanted to make an argument then he's going to have to make his argument so compelling or be so compelling in the way that he delivers that argument that it's going to put him in a position where if the Rt Hon Winston Peters decides "No we're going in this direction." and Darroch Ball says "Well I don't agree with this and I'm going to take a position on it"—which happens all the time from my experience; certainly inside our party people are very free to get up and make their case and argue their position. The Rt Hon Winston Peters decides "Nah he's gone." So you tell me—Darroch Ball: So why wouldn't you be gone in your party?Hon MARK MITCHELL: You tell me. Who's got—CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): No I won't tell you.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Sorry repeat.Darroch Ball: Why wouldn't you be gone in your party?CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): I won't tell you all right?Hon MARK MITCHELL: Yeah. Sorry Madam Chair. Mr Darroch Ball is barracking across the House. I'd like to respond to his question but I can't hear it Madam Chair.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): Can I just say that the purpose of the committee of the whole House is a much more informal environment where people can have the opportunity to take four five-minute calls and have a discourse. Having that through interjection is not helpful to the order of the House. So if the member continues the call—and that member is free to stand up and make his point in the discussion.Hon Tim Macindoe: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I do apologise for interrupting my good colleague Mark Mitchell but I am very concerned that throughout the whole of that ruling his time was counting down. I appreciate that this is probably at the discretion of the Chair but I wonder whether you were aware of that fact because it is only a five-minute call and much of that time has been elapsed effectively dealing with Mr Ball's interjections.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): It's a valid point of order and I hear it and I have taken it into account.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Again I just invite the member Darroch Ball to stand and take a call and outline for us very clearly the points that he's trying to make. We will listen very carefully. We'll record them we'll write them down and then we'll take more calls and we will address them. We'll address those points. So I'd welcome Darroch Ball instead of barracking from across the House to stand up—it's very easy—and take a five minute call take a 10-minute call and lay out for us very clearly why you think this bill is so important why you believe in it so strongly and allow us to get up and respond to those points. I would invite him to do that and it will be very interesting to see whether or not in the course of this debate he actually does do that.So coming back to my original point the reality is this—this is the reality. There is not one member of the New Zealand First caucus that would not back their leader—the Rt Hon Winston Peters—in a move by him to expel Darroch Ball from this Parliament if he chose to do it. Now if Darroch Ball wants to stand up and he wants to make an argument and he wants to explain to this House why that wouldn't happen then I'd invite him to do that. But we all know—everyone knows in this House—that if the Rt Hon Winston Peters decides to expel Darroch Ball from this Parliament he's gone.He was voted in on the party list and you can make the argument that when the party list is put out and the people of New Zealand look at the list some of the votes that are attracted to the party are because of the strength of the list that the party actually puts out there. So you could make an argument actually even for a list MP that is ranked on the party list that there could be some support that is actually behind Darroch Ball. There could be some New Zealand First members that have actually voted for him that have supported him that have supported the party because of him. The reality of it is their voice doesn't matter with this bill—he's gone. Darroch Ball is gone. He's expelled from this Parliament. He's got no recourse; he is gone.I just want to come back to another point that the Hon Dr Nick Smith made: "acted in a way that has distorted". [Members seek call] Madam Chair?CHAIRPERSON (Hon Anne Tolley): I'm allowing the member to continue.Hon MARK MITCHELL: Thank you Madam Chair. I would ask the Minister to please take a call and stand and define for us exactly what he means or what this bill means or what this bill is trying to tell us as a Parliament—"acted in a way that has distorted". Look I find it very interesting that during this debate I've put up three very clear examples to the Minister in the chair around distorted proportionality."