3. Prisons—Waikeria Prison and Bed SpaceHon DAVID BENNETT (National—Hamilton East) to the Minister of CorrectionsPrisons—Waikeria Prison and Bed Space3. Hon DAVID BENNETT (National—Hamilton East) to the Minister of Corrections: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions in relation to Waikeria Prison?Hon KELVIN DAVIS (Minister of Corrections): Yes in the context they were made.Hon David Bennett: If he stands by his statement that New Zealand prisons are super-sized factories for low-level criminals what is his definition of a low-level criminal?Hon KELVIN DAVIS: The member is right that our prisons are factories for criminals. In fact that party's plans for a mega-prison are quite frankly wrong. American-style mega-prisons swallow up young people and churn out hardened criminals. That's the matter here. That party there even though they had access to all the research and the best evidence—Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I'm sure the Minister's opinions about the previous Government are interesting to him but they aren't particularly apposite to the question that he's been asked which was—SPEAKER: That is a matter for my responsibility Mr Brownlee and I'm waiting to see if he gets to it. Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I'll give an actual case. There is a person who is in prison for stealing a $1000 cellphone. That person was in prison on remand at Waikeria for a matter of days before he started self-harming by stabbing himself in the groin and was sent to the at-risk unit. Those are low-level criminals who should never ever be in prison in the first place simply for shoplifting a cellphone.Hon David Bennett: If he stands by his statement that the 1500 bed build at Waikeria is an American-style mega-prison what is the biggest American prison by bed count?Hon KELVIN DAVIS: I have no responsibility for American prisons. Hon David Bennett: If he stands by that previous statement then what is the average size of an American prison? SPEAKER: Order! The Minister said it before and probably anticipated the ruling that I should have made. This Minister has no responsibility for American prisons. Hon David Bennett: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: Which one? Hon Gerry Brownlee: Mr Speaker while he may have no responsibility for any prison system in the United States he most certainly has responsibility for his own statements and for a Minister to make a comparative statement about an American prison he must of course know exactly what he was comparing otherwise it's just one of those in-the-wind statements that means nothing.SPEAKER: Well Mr Brownlee I heard quotes made about mega-prisons; I've heard nothing quoted from this Minister about average American prisons and it certainly wasn't in the question.Hon David Bennett: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: It's not going to be relitigating that again is it?Hon David Bennett: No in the Minister's first answer he mentioned American-style prisons—SPEAKER: Mega-prisons. He didn't say average prisons.Hon David Bennett: —and so I'm asking him to reflect on that and define that.SPEAKER: What's the member asking me to do?Hon David Bennett: Well to get the member to answer the question because he referred to American-style prisons in his first response—SPEAKER: So the member's now relitigating my ruling—is that right?Hon David Bennett: No I'm seeking for the Minister to answer his question.SPEAKER: I think I'm going to be kind to the member and let him continue to have a supplementary—not an extra one; just his next one.Hon David Bennett: How does his claim that his Government is focused on rehabilitation match up with the fact that he admitted yesterday that prisoners will have to sleep on mattresses on the ground because the Government haven't built enough beds to keep up with demand?Hon KELVIN DAVIS: The member's misquoting me. I was asked the question What happens if there is a lack of bed space?" and I said "Well every corrections system in the world has a contingency plan for just that event." So if there was an earthquake today and we had to move prisoners into another prison and there weren't enough spare beds they have to have a contingency plan. That contingency plan is the very same contingency plan that the previous Government had and now they're criticising us for having a contingency plan—the very same one.Hon David Bennett: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked the member about rehabilitation. He never mentioned rehabilitation once in that answer.SPEAKER: Order! The member should—I mean I think he even read the question. He should think about what he said. Hon David Bennett: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister was asked about—SPEAKER: No. If the member argues again he's going to be terminated from asking supplementaries. If he wants a further supplementary he can ask one. He doesn't—all right."