Willis NicolaNICOLA WILLIS (National): I find it very rich that the Minister is talking about people who are scared in relation to State housing in the very week where we've had the spectacle of a pensioner couple telling of how an intimidation campaign by their State house neighbour a Black Power member who threatened to slit the throat of an 82-year-old man and watch him bleed out are now too scared to live in their State home because that Minister has presided over a change in policy which means that tenants can no longer be evicted from their homes. I find that pretty rich.Hon Dr Megan Woods: Incorrect.NICOLA WILLIS: If the Minister thinks that's incorrect I welcome her addressing in this debate why it is that there have been zero State house evictions in the past three years. And when it comes to the State house waiting list which is the core issue in this Estimates—Hon Michael Wood: Point of order. My point of order is to draw attention to the fact that the matter being raised by the member is clearly as described by the member a policy matter. It's not clear to me that it's actually a matter that goes to the question of the Estimates of Appropriations that are supposed to be subject to this debate.Chris Bishop: Speaking to the point of the order there could be nothing more fundamental than the issue of the expenditure or lack of expenditure in the Estimates of State house evictions. It's well within the parameters of the annual Estimates debate which considers the appropriations that the Government seeks from Parliament and the issue of whether or not Kāinga Ora has been using the money appropriated by Parliament to its agency in order to do evictions or not is well within the scope of the debate.Hon Michael Wood: Speaking to the point of order if I may Madam Chair. I'll simply refer back to the actual comments of the member concerned who specifically framed her comments as a question of Government policy and had no reference at all to the way in which it was being implemented through appropriations.Chris Bishop: Speaking to the point of order.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa): One more time. Point of order Chris Bishop—and then I'll go back to the person who was actually asking the question.Chris Bishop: The issue of Government policy is of course expressed through the Estimates. I think the member is dancing on the head of a pin. Government policy is expressed through the Estimates. Government policy is part and parcel of what is being debated in Parliament. This is Parliament doing its constitutional duty to scrutinise the actions or lack of actions of the Government.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa): Estimates is a forecast of how it is that the Minister of Housing and Urban Development is actually going to invest in this portfolio. I will let Nicola Willis finish her question.NICOLA WILLIS: Perhaps I can be helpful and ask the Minister this: how much does she forecast Kāinga Ora will spend in the next year on security guards for tenants who are too scared to live in their homes because of the abusive Kāinga Ora tenant next door? How much does she forecast in the next year that Kāinga Ora will spend compensating tenants because they are having to live in fear? How much money does she expect the Tenancy Tribunal will order Kāinga Ora to pay because it hasn't met its basic obligations as a landlord to protect the safety of its tenants?