Young Jonathan: Health and Safety Reform Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeYoung Jonathan: Health and Safety Reform Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 20 August 2015. Volume:707;Page:6047. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]JONATHAN YOUNG (National—New Plymouth): Just in response to Mr Faafoi’s question my view as we look at Part 3 which is headed “Engagement worker participation and representation” is that there is I think some muddling and confusion taking place. The bill talks about workplace representation and that is the principle. A mechanism of that is a health and safety representative. The independent task force said this: “ ‘Active worker participation’ means that workers: are involved in developing implementing and monitoring their workplaces’ health and safety systems; can participate through a range of representation mechanisms …”—a range of representation mechanisms.So if a person conducting a business or undertaking (PCBU) an employer works alongside workers in their business and they stop—it could be a tool box meeting it could be a staff meeting—and they say “Today we are going to look at any potential hazards to what we’re going to be doing and what do you see?” and that worker is engaged in a dialogue and together they are identifying any potential hazards that is workplace representation.Sue Moroney: No it’s not. That’s not representation.JONATHAN YOUNG: Yes it is. [Interruption] Yes it is. This is workplace representation. I think that members on the other side are locked into a particular form a particular process whereas what we understand is that in order to—as my colleague spoke about—bring a culture change it is enabling every person who is in the workplace to have their views expressed. And they do that through that participation through the engagement process that is very much part of this legislation.What is being watered down through this debate is actually the onus on engagement and participation. Everybody is looking at this thing and saying that the only way it can happen—and I am not denying that it is a mechanism—is through the health and safety representative. We are not denying that because the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety yesterday identified that in 75 percent of the workforce—those in I guess organisations or companies with over 20 employees and those with under 20 in high-risk industries—employers must if they ask to do so have an elected health and safety representative. And so we do acknowledge that health and safety representatives can play a part in those businesses but they are not essential in small businesses and low-risk areas for that worker engagement and participation to take place. We are just being “reasonably practicable” which is a term that this bill has in the very essence of it.Going back to Mr Su’a William Sio’s comments when he questioned the term “reasonably practicable” and did not like that term—of course that term is in present legislation. It is in the Health and Safety in Employment Act 1992. It is very much part of the way in which the workplace already operates using those terms. “Practicable” means that which is reasonably doable so it actually has an implication that actions need to be put in place.When we look at this culture change I think it is very very important to understand that essentially no two businesses are the same. There will be ways and means by which one business can have a very effective health and safety regime that does not apply to another. It is the outcome that is incredibly important. What this bill offers is flexibility for firms and organisations right across this country. When we want to see complete engagement by the workforce and by organisations and businesses—