McAnulty KieranHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour): Thank you very much Mr Speaker. The problem with that speech by the Hon Simeon Brown is that I just don't believe him—and there are many New Zealanders around who don't either—because I find the Minister to be about as disingenuous as you can get. Here he is standing in the House making all sorts of promises to the country as he has done throughout the campaign but what is in the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill doesn't match what he is saying. There were a lot of claims made tonight where if people were to take the Minister at what he was saying they would expect rates would not continue to go up. But he failed short of making that promise because he knows in his heart of hearts that rates will continue to go up because the advice that he has received is that this approach by this Government will still result in rates increasing. And there's a number of reasons why I find his claims to be disingenuous.The workings that they are going on are based on a false assumption that the level of expenditure that is required over the next 30 years is less than half what was claimed previously. Now we know through peer-reviewed assessment that was derived from councils' own numbers that there needs to be up to $185 billion spent over the next 30 years. The Minister claims that it is less than half of that not by looking at councils' own numbers and projections over 30 years but by looking at councils' projections from their long-term plans. That is not being upfront with New Zealand because he knows that councils won't reflect 30 years' worth of work in their long-term plans because it's only 10 years out. Then there will be through the process that councils have had to go through over the last wee while a number of largescale projects that won't be reflected in those 10 years. But he stood up and he told the country that this is affordable for councils.New Zealanders are in a situation where the Minister is making a claim and we're making a claim so why don't they listen to neither of us and listen to the credit rating agencies instead? Because ultimately it's the credit rating agencies that determine the cost of borrowing. Borrowing is the reality when it comes to this water infrastructure. We cannot escape that fact. Regardless of how much needs to be spent it needs to be borrowed. When the Minister stands up and says that it is a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the expenditure and the credit rating agency turns around and says We don't believe you" nor should New Zealanders. We certainly don't. I don't think he's being upfront. What he's doing is finding a political solution to a massive issue facing this country an issue that hits every New Zealander whether they own their home or whether they rent. Rates determine the costs that hit their household. I think rates are going to be the biggest issue facing households in this country over the next wee while and this bill isn't going to help at all.They stand up here in this House and say "We are helping councils" when they know from their own advice that they're not. And on the back of dismissing the recommendations that came from the Future for Local Government Review calling it woke nonsense—despite the fact that the recommendations had alternatives for councils had some tools and levers that they could pull so that they didn't have to rely on rates—they've dismissed it. So the only option they've got is rates. And they have the gall after doing those two things to turn around and stand up in front of councils and lecture them in a patronising cynical and arrogant way and tell them it's their fault.Again that's political. That is a political calculation because they know they've stuffed up. They know that they set the rules within which councils operate and they know that they have now made sure that councils have no option but to continue to increase rates and they don't want to cop it in two years' time at the next election. So they are bending over backwards to make sure that the inevitable fury that comes from ongoing rates increases goes towards mayors and councillors instead of them. Well my message to ratepayers is that it's actually not your mayors' and councillors' fault. These guys are trying to spin it as if it is but it's their fault. The next time they get a bill and they are surprised by the rates increase remember this: the Government had an opportunity to help councils out and they blew it. They blew it for political reasons and now they tie their legs together and turn around and criticise them for not being able to walk.Now I could give them a week an entire sitting week and ask them to come up with all the lists of what they call wasteful spending and it could be as long as you like. But it's not even going to scratch the surface. When over 80 percent of councils' expenditure is on water and on roads and all they want councils to focus on is roads water and picking up rubbish—that was the Minister's response in question time today—even if councils got rid of all the libraries and all the pools and all the sports grounds and didn't do up the local footpaths and didn't do up the local town centres rates would still go up. And if they were being upfront with New Zealand they would declare that. But they're not. And that is why I believe the Minister is being disingenuous. They know the system is stuffed and they're refusing to do something about it.The credit rating agencies the ones that actually determine what is and is not affordable have said this will not work. They're going ahead with it anyway. They are working on the basis of a level of expenditure which dismisses 20 years' expenditure because if they actually were upfront and looked at the 30-year projection of up to $185 billion that came from the councils' own figures themselves this plan wouldn't work. So they've done some jiggery-pokery and they've made it look like it's going to add up but it's not. And at the end of the day who's going to suffer? It's going to be ratepayers. It's also going to be good and hard-working mayors and councillors. If the Minister actually sat down with them in their council chambers and talked to them during the long-term plan process just like I would he would know the angst that they have gone through to try and keep rates low. But they've got no choice.Now if you look at South Wairarapa as an example they have had rates increases of 20 percent in the last two years and they still don't have the money to upgrade their roads; they still don't have the money to upgrade their water system. Now South Wairarapa are in a council-controlled organisation—the thing this bill does—but they still don't have the money. They have stopped developments in Greytown and Martinborough—no more new builds. That's it—none. The local tradies are having to leave the region to get work. The local Mitre 10 has really been hit because if there are no builds no one is coming in to buy materials. Why? Because they cannot afford to upgrade their wastewater systems. Now they've tried. They thought entering into Wellington Water was the solution but then it didn't work out did it? It didn't work out because it doesn't add up because what the Minister is promising also doesn't add up.So today is actually a sad day. It's a sad day when a Minister stands up and says something that he knows in his heart of hearts won't eventuate. I think that's a bit of a disgrace and yet he carries on. He knows the numbers don't add up because the very advice that his own officials and own department have given him says so. So they fiddled it. They fiddled with it to make it look feasible and they've run with it. In some communities they have already put rates up because they got rid of the affordable water reform. The councils have said so themselves—literally writing to their ratepayers and saying "Sorry it was going to be this amount; now it's this amount because these guys got rid of affordable water reform."This bill does nothing for the likes of the Tararua District. They've got around 10000 ratepaying units and the fourth-largest roading network in the country. They need to find $600 million over the next 30 years—that's from their own figures the figures the Minister called "dodgy". That's their own figures. They cannot afford it. They can't afford it by themselves and even if they joined up with say two or three councils around them they couldn't afford it either. So if you were a mayor or a councillor in a surrounding district why would you voluntarily join up with them? I know they're entering into this process in good faith because councils do that but at the end of the day when they look at the numbers why would they do that? And I feel sorry for the mayor and councillors in the Tararua District because this is a problem not of their making but it's up to them to fix and the Government is not helping them."