6. Children Young Persons and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Bill—Māori Children's Welfare and Consistency with Treaty of WaitangiJAN LOGIE (Green) to the Prime MinisterChildren Young Persons and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Bill—Māori Children's Welfare and Consistency with Treaty of Waitangi6. JAN LOGIE (Green) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his statements?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH (Prime Minister): Yes.Jan Logie: How could he say in his Prime Minister's statement that he is looking forward to a strong and effective relationship with the Māori Party when his Government introduced the Children Young Persons and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Bill despite knowing how fundamental tino rangatiratanga is to Māori and the Māori Party particularly in respect of their own children?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: There is ongoing discussion about the way that the objectives that the member is referring to are achieved in that bill. The Government believes that we have gone a long way to recognising the fact that many Māori children are in State care and that that system should be very responsive to and respectful of their whakapapa and their whānau. Just exactly how that is captured in legislation has been a subject of a lot of discussion and no doubt there will be more.Jan Logie: Does he agree with the co-leader of the Māori Party Marama Fox who said about this bill We cannot have a new stolen generation by removing links to whakapapa in this new design."?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: The member has the opportunity to look at the legislation and decide for herself whether that is a correct assessment. I would say that it is not but we do share with the Māori Party a strong desire to change what has happened to so many of our most vulnerable children. New Zealand can do a better job and under this Government we will do a better job. After a number of years of very hard work to which a lot of people have contributed with goodwill on 1 April the new organisation will begin starting a period of another 3 or 4 years of significant change. In the end this is fundamentally about protecting our children better particularly those who are most at risk.Jan Logie: Will he push ahead with removing the requirement to prioritise placing tamariki Māori within their own whānau hapū or iwi despite the Māori Party describing these changes as creating a new stolen generation—surely a pretty fundamental disagreement?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: I acknowledge that when we are dealing with issues related to our children and the awful circumstances in which the State would take them from their families—bearing in mind that it is a rare and very unfortunate occurrence—in those circumstances some strong words are going to be spoken. I do not happen to agree with the member's description of either side of the argument.Jan Logie: Does he agree that the Government is breaching Te Tiriti by cutting across rangatiratanga and putting tamariki Māori at further risk as the Māori Women's Welfare League said in its claim to the Waitangi Tribunal against these policies?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: No I do not agree with that nor do I think it is fair to characterise any number of these groups as fundamentally opposed to the policy. Many of them have participated because they know in nitty-gritty detail what has gone wrong so they have participated in the whole process of setting out to put it right and change the system. It happens that at this stage against the background of an enormous amount of goodwill and a surprising breadth of consensus about what is radical change—the most radical change in the care of our children in decades—there are some issues about how the intent is expressed in the legislation. But we actually have very similar intent and I do not agree with the characterisations of Government policy.Jan Logie: Is he concerned that his old friend the former co-leader of the Māori party Dame Tariana Turia knowing the content of the legislation is threatening to march on Parliament again saying "If we can walk for our land if we can walk for our foreshore we can certainly act for our tamariki."?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: Of course I would be concerned about anyone who is as focused as Dame Tariana on the welfare of our children feeling that strongly. That is why it is a good idea for us to make sure everyone understands what is at stake and understands what the actual legislative proposals are—because it is not that well understood that the legislation is available for scrutiny—participates in a select committee process and makes propositions about how they think these issues can be resolved. I am sure it will take a bit of movement to achieve that. Ideally we would be able to get at least significant agreement on the way forward.Marama Fox: If we are to believe the statistics that say 63 percent of children in the care of Child Youth and Family are Māori and 71 percent of young people in prison are Māori is the Government prepared to continue to negotiate with the Māori Party to ensure that the rebuild of Oranga Tamariki is done with a kaupapa Māori perspective?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: Of course we are. As coalition partners we are always open to a discussion as the member knows. I think we do need to keep in mind for those groups outside the Parliament that we do not want to let a philosophical discussion between adults get in the way of a better path for our children. Sometimes these things are easier to solve in practice than in theory.Jan Logie: How can the Government push ahead with these policies described as creating a new "stolen generation" against the informed opposition of the Māori Party Dame Tariana Turia the Māori Women's Welfare League and most recently the Iwi Leaders Forum?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: We will be pushing ahead because if the alternative is to leave in place the system that has destroyed the lives of many of our most vulnerable children and whānau in my view there is only one choice and that is to change it. Now of course whether we can bring everyone along with that change is still open to debate but the member should not be in any doubt that we are proceeding because every month we take means that some of our children are suffering in ways that are avoidable.Marama Fox: Can the Prime Minister confirm that subsequent legislation that governs the rebuild of Oranga Tamariki will reflect adequately the position of Māori when dealing with Māori children?Rt Hon BILL ENGLISH: Of course that is what we would like to achieve."