Mallard Trevor: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
[Volume:656;Page:5626] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 It is unbelievable that a Minister of Education earning a ministerial salary does not have the backbone to come to the Chamber to defend her estimates and her cuts. Why can we not have a Minister— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The member knows that he cannot refer to a member who is not here. The member can debate the issues but he cannot refer to the absence of a member or in this case a Minister. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I want to know why Anne Tolley is not in that chair now. Why can Anne Tolley not sit in the ministerial chair and defend her votes? Anne Tolley is not prepared to come here to defend the cuts in education that she has made. She is a person who makes cuts in special education and then runs away from them like a chicken. She makes cuts in education and she runs away like a chicken— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The member cannot talk about someone as being chicken. Although the member can refer to members not being in the chair and being responsible for the vote he cannot refer to a member who is absent. The member knows that; I have already ruled on that. Also he cannot refer to a member as being chicken. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: We see Anne Tolley running away like a chicken. We see Anne Tolley not prepared to sit in that chair and tell the Committee that she has already signed off the closure of Aorangi School. Despite the rumours now being spread all over Christchurch she is not prepared to front up to that community; she is not prepared to do that. 
If she had decided to go to Aorangi School instead of defending these estimates I would praise her for her courage. But we have a Minister who is not prepared to do either of those things. She is not prepared to defend the estimates in this Chamber and she is not prepared to go to the community of Aorangi School which is John Key’s old school and say that she has decided to close it. 
When a member is a Minister and receives ministerial pay that member has to accept a little bit of pain. We want Anne Tolley to front up to sit in that chair and to take some of the pain for the cuts that she has made. We want her to tell us why she has folded on standards. Why has she pushed out to beyond the next election the implementation of the much-vaunted standards approach? She has done that probably because it is wrong. 
Why can she not sit in the chair and then stand up and tell us the cuts were wrong? Why can she not stand up and tell us that she has changed her mind? Why can she not stand up and say that she did not understand the effect of the cuts to adult and community education like the Prime Minister has done? He was big enough to say he had not understood the effect of those cuts. It was good the Prime Minister had the courage to stand up and say: “I didn’t understand what I was doing when I approved those cuts in the Budget.” Why can Anne Tolley not stand up in the Chamber now and say that either she understood or she did not understand the effect of them? 
Hon Steve Chadwick 
: What’s more important? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Is anything more important for a Minister than a debate in the Chamber on one’s own estimates? I want to know from the chief Government whip why he is protecting the Minister of Education. Why is he scheduling the Committee in such a way that Anne Tolley is not sitting in the chair when she should be? 
Hon Steve Chadwick 
: He’s hopeless! 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I do not think he is hopeless. I think he has done it absolutely deliberately. I think he is shielding Anne Tolley. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: That is a personal reflection and the member cannot do that. Although we can have robustness in the debate a member cannot make personal reflections or say someone lacks courage or someone is protecting somebody else. I ask the member to continue. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Can you point me to the precedent that states one cannot say a member is being protected? There has been a long history in the Chamber of people indicating that people are being protected from debate. I do not know whether Sir Roger Douglas is listening but I am sure I will get some assistance from him in this respect. People have said that people have been protected from debate in this Chamber certainly all the time I have been a member and probably since at least 1969 when Sir Roger first came here. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I have heard enough. I have ruled. If the member is questioning the motives of another member by saying that a member is trying to protect someone then that is out of order. I ask the member to continue as his time is running out. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I am not questioning any motives at all. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: No I ask the member to continue. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The whip is doing a good job in protecting Anne Tolley. He is doing a very good job as a National Government whip because he is making sure that the weakest Minister on the front bench of that Government is not sitting in the chair and defending the estimates in the way any Minister who has courage and deserves the job would do.