Flavell Te Ururoa: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:652;Page:1924] 
10.  
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
 to the  
Minister of Local Government 
: What funding is available from central government for small communities to upgrade their water supply? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 I am advised by my department that the Ministry of Health runs a Drinking-water Assistance Programme which was started in 2006 with approximately $136 million available over 10 years. The programme provides technical and capital assistance for communities of fewer than 5000 people to enable them to get safe drinking-water. I am advised that factors that affect the level of the subsidy provided are the size of the community and its assessed level of deprivation. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Is the Minister aware that some residents of Bridge Pa have been out of water since December 2008— 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have an interesting question here given our previous discussions about the responsibilities of the Minister of Maori Affairs. We learnt from the Minister that a funding programme is available through the Ministry of Health and that it was put in place by the previous Labour Government. If that is so then consistent with your previous rulings this question can scarcely be answered by the Minister of Local Government. He is dealing with it because it is a general policy matter relating to local government you have ruled that general policy matters relating to Maori cannot be dealt with by the Minister of Maori Affairs and it seems to me these are now on all fours. Are we to assume that there is one rule for the Pakeha Minister of Local Government and another rule for the Maori Minister of Maori Affairs? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No there is not. I invite the member to continue his question. [ 
Interruption 
] If members want me to get trifling and pedantic I can but it will not be in the Opposition’s interests. I consider that the point made by the Hon Dr Michael Cullen was not a well-made point because the Minister of Local Government has responsibility for matters to do with local government and that is the determining factor. I invite the member to carry on with his question. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Do we take it from that ruling that the Minister of Maori Affairs does not have responsibility for matters to do with Maori? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I invite the senior member—the shadow Leader of the House—to be careful. He knows that the Minister of Maori Affairs has responsibility for Maori affairs—that portfolio. It is not my role as Speaker to judge what should fall within it. Te Ururoa Flavell is asking a supplementary question. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not wish to detain the House but we all share an interest in ensuring that our questions are within the Standing Orders and within your rulings. I believe that the point of order made by the Hon Dr Michael Cullen was a fair and serious point of order. No I am not challenging your ruling but I am seeking your guidance on how we should deal with the issue of Ministers who have direct portfolio responsibilities for programmes—and both the Minister of Maori Affairs and the Minister of Local Government do; that is all agreed—and also have statutory responsibilities for general issues that fall within their bailiwick. The problem is that you have ruled out a question to the Minister of Maori Affairs that fell within one but not the other and you have ruled in a question to the Minister of Local Government that specifically related to a programme funded by the Ministry of Health. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have heard the member’s point sufficiently. I invite members to have a look at the statement I made at the commencement of today’s sitting. In fact I was acknowledging in that statement that the points made by Dr Michael Cullen yesterday were actually very valid points and that when I reflected on my rulings on them and looked at them very carefully I was troubled by some of them. That was why I apologised to the House. And I pointed out that it was not Dr Cullen’s supplementary questions that I should have ruled out; in fact in my view—when I listened to the tape and looked at  
Hansard 
—the questions of Te Ururoa Flavell and the Hon Chris Finlayson were out of order yesterday. I invite the member to read the statement I made because in many ways it was consistent with the points that Dr Michael Cullen was making. For the good order of the House I invite Te Ururoa Flavell to continue with his supplementary question. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I appreciate very much your clarification of your earlier ruling and we will give it careful consideration to ensure that we comply with it. But can we take that your point as confirmed now that the questions from several Government members and Ministers were out of order implies that you wish to be consistent about the narrow construction—which is perfectly in order it would seem—that only those matters within the direct portfolio responsibility are relevant. If that is true then I am afraid we come back to the question to the Minister of Local Government; it was about a Ministry of Health programme and that Minister sought to answer it as Minister of Local Government. How does that fit within your considered ruling? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The issue I clarified today was the issue relating to the situation where a Minister has made it clear that he or she does not have responsibility. In that case supplementary questions should not ask about reports in relation to that area. That was in my view where I erred yesterday. So I am acknowledging to the House that in my view I erred yesterday. We should not be petty about this. I have also made it clear today that I will take a wide view of ministerial responsibilities as has been the practice and that the approach I plan to take is similar to that taken by Speaker Burke in the 1980s. I think he handled this area very well. It has got rather more difficult since then because of the great number of parties in the House. It is more difficult but I still think we can deal with it sensibly. I put it to the member that we need to deal with this matter sensibly. I was not happy with some of the rulings yesterday and that was why I sought to clarify them this morning. I pointed out that it was not the Opposition’s questions that I was most concerned about on reviewing the tapes and  
Hansard 
; it was some other supplementary questions that I think actually complicated the situation very significantly. The Minister of Local Government is being questioned on local government matters. I will listen very carefully to the question to make sure he is being questioned on local government matters. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Is the Minister aware that some residents of Bridge Pa have been out of water since December 2008 and could he give assistance by way of advice or otherwise to the local bodies so that a reticulated water system can be installed to support the Bridge Pa community? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: I thank the member for raising this question with the Minister of Local Government. I note that the future supply of water to this community is the responsibility of the community and indeed the local council. I am aware that like many New Zealand communities the residents of Bridge Pa rely on individual household bores for their water supply. I understand that during the very dry conditions experienced in the area some bores have run dry. Decisions about the future water supply of this community rest with the community and with the local council. I understand that on 8 March 2009 three proposals to address the issue were presented to the community. These were two proposals to connect Bridge Pa to the Hastings town supply and one proposal to put in a stand-alone supply. I also understand that the Bridge Pa community is considering seeking funding for the local marae trust to operate a reticulated supply. Ministry of Health officials will be presenting information on the Drinking-water Assistance Programme to an inter-agency hui of representatives from all interested parties tomorrow. I understand that the Hon Tariana Turia is also going to Bridge Pa tomorrow to discuss this matter. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Is the Minister aware that a recent Hastings District Council door-to-door survey revealed that 35 houses in the village are without water and that some have been without it for as long as 6 weeks; and how can such a dire water shortage exist when just down the road plans are being made to install a 50000 cubic metre lake? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Hon Rodney Hide—rather more briefly. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: I am advised that the Hastings District Council first found out about the problem only on 11 February 2009. 
Hon Lianne Dalziel 
: You’re remarkably well briefed for a question you didn’t write. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: It is great to be criticised by the Opposition for being well briefed. Those members are not used to Ministers who know how to do their job are they. I understand that the Hastings District Council has been providing emergency relief to the community. As I have previously advised decisions about the future water supply of this community are for the council or the community to make and I am very pleased that our colleague Tariana Turia will be at Bridge Pa tomorrow. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: When will the Minister share with the Maori Party that his agenda is to privatise the delivery of water to residents as he is currently doing by secretly trying to privatise the port of Northland aided and abetted by Mr John Carter? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Interestingly the residents of Bridge Pa— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Again I am very reluctant to do this when it is one of my own team asking the question but how can it be possible that “gagged” is ruled out but “aided and abetted” is allowed? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister does not appear to have taken any objection to it. I invite the Minister to answer the question. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: Interestingly the water supply for Bridge Pa is currently privatised. That was the point and if the member had listened to the supplementary question he would have realised that the people of Bridge Pa had their own bores. This Minister of Local Government is working with the Maori Party to assist Bridge Pa to get water. I would have thought that was something the Labour Opposition would be interested in doing. 
Brendon Burns 
: Can the Minister advise what the impact on improving the quality of the water of communities like Bridge Pa would be if the advice from the Job Summit to impose a moratorium on meeting water-quality standards was taken? 
Hon RODNEY HIDE 
: None whatsoever. The advice I have received is that the drinking-water standards put in place by the previous Government would put tens of millions of dollars on some communities to meet standards that those communities do not want or need.