English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:629;Page:1797] 
5.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister for Tertiary Education 
: Has the Christchurch Polytechnic Institute of Technology repaid any of the $3.5 million it agreed to repay the Tertiary Education Commission in 2004 following an independent evaluation of its COOL IT course; if not why not? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister for Tertiary Education) 
: 
 Repayment is to occur by way of adjustments to the final funding payments from the Tertiary Education Commission to the institute for the years 2005 2006 and 2007. The payment for 2005 has yet to be calculated. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is the Minister now telling us that when Parliament was told repeatedly by his predecessor Steve Maharey in late 2004 that money would be repaid we were not meant to believe that and that we had to wait 18 months or 2 years before anything happened? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No the member was told that at the time. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm the statement made by the chief executive of the Tertiary Education Commission who told a select committee last week that no money has been paid back that the action it is taking is to set up a review during March of this year and that that review is now in place; does he regard that as serious action to show accountability for a scam? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I will try to explain it again to the member. The institute is not paying a cheque for $3.5 million to the Government. Over 3 years it will get $3.5 million less in its final payments than it would otherwise get. The first of those years is 2005 and that payment has yet to be calculated. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister think he may have trouble negotiating the repayment of $3 million out of the $15 million scam when the institute has publicly reported that its enrolments could be 18 percent lower than last year and that it faces a $3 million deficit; why would we believe that he will get a dollar out of the institute? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I will try again. There is no agreement for the institute to write out a cheque for $3.5 million to the Government. The sum of $3.5 million is being withheld from the payments due to the institute. The first of those payments has yet to be calculated. 
Hon Bill English 
: What does the Minister think his predecessor meant when he told Parliament several times in August September and December in 2004: “where people have misused or inappropriately used the Government funding that money should be paid back.”; and is it the case that Parliament was misled by his predecessor because it was never his intention that the money “should be paid back.”? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: For the fifth time I think it is I say that the repayment is to occur by an adjustment to the final funding payment from the Tertiary Education Commission to the institute. The first of those payments is yet to be calculated. Therefore what the member said is correct—and the member has just failed to achieve in English level 1. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that this explanation is remarkably similar to the distinction the Government made in the case of David Benson-Pope between a complaint and a formal complaint and that here it is making a distinction between money that the Minister said should be paid back as opposed to money it says it will keep and not pay to the institute? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No. Complaints come in about all kinds of people in this House to all kinds of other people in the House. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister confirm that his version of accountability runs like this: Christchurch Polytechnic runs a $15 million hoax course enrolling 18000 people the Government pays over the cash senior staff in the polytech pocket millions of dollars of that cash for personal benefit the survey shows that only 3 percent of the students ever engaged with the course and the end result is that 2 years after that was exposed absolutely nothing has happened—no one was sacked and no money was repaid—nothing? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No. Repayment will occur by way of adjustments to the final payments to the Christchurch Polytechnic Institute of Technology. 
Ron Mark 
: Was any of the $3.5 million spent by the Christchurch Polytechnic Institute of Technology on purchasing artworks painted by the chief executive officer Mr John Scott; if so how much did the chief executive officer of the polytechnic get for his masterpieces? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I have absolutely no idea. I would welcome the information. I do note that Mr Scott is leaving in a matter of another month or two I think it is.