Watts Simon; Salesa Jenny; Mahuta NanaiaSIMON WATTS (National—North Shore): Yeah and I thank the Minister for that additional context. She noted as part of her basis for these reforms around the issues that New Zealand has faced in regards to drinking water issues—and we are familiar with the Havelock North example. But I am interested in the Minister's comments in regards to Yale University's global benchmarking survey in which New Zealand sits in the top 30—actually 29th out of 180 countries—in regards to quality of drinking water and water infrastructure. We sit in a peer group of Canada the US Singapore Israel and while no one acknowledges that there isn't some room for improvement we are not in the bottom 20 and we aren't facing catastrophic failure of the scale which is referred to.I think why that is important is for the whole case for change. What's the burning platform here? What's the big driver in terms of the need for us to act when the Minister refers to the point that actually you know we've got some significant issues here? When you do a horizon scan in terms of where we sit globally we are not a significant outlier—actually quite the opposite. We're sitting in the upper quartile of peer group.So the scale of reform being tabled and the speed at which this process has been tabled and I guess what you'd refer to as the lack of consultation—and those are not necessarily my words; those are words from the majority of local authorities around this country. Why are we not using the opportunity to take on board the feedback and look at the different counterfactual models? Because as my questions asked before what were some of those counterfactual models that we have considered other than what is seen as sort of the silver bullet which is amalgamation of the 67 local entities into four entities? That just seems like that's the only option that's available and the feedback loud and clear from around this country is that there are other options in order to deal with our challenges. I'm wanting to try and understand around the appetite of the Minister—why are we not giving that due consideration?CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa): We've only got two minutes and 42 seconds left. Simon Watts: Oh she's got no time. CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa): Well you had gifted time to the Minister before so if you would like the Minister to answer—Simon Watts: I'm happy to. I'd like the Minister to answer using my time.Hon NANAIA MAHUTA (Minister of Local Government): I thank the member for ceding his time to me to be able to answer the questions. Firstly in terms of the question around the counterfactual model—it's a very good question. Can I say that the model that we have landed on delivers the full range of benefits that I've spoken to and is fair. It delivers benefits to ratepayers; it ensures that there's a financially sustainable pathway to be able to invest in infrastructure for the long term which is a huge challenge for councils; and it ensures that by removing debt and liability off the council's books and the Crown's books we have these water service entities that have sufficient scale to be able to self-invest within this network.But let me come back to the counterfactual because it's a very good question. We did test 30 models—that is on the Department of Internal Affairs website. It has got a strong and robust analysis against the Government's bottom lines as to why we didn't end up pursuing certain models. It does give some background to those who have been interested in this approach as to why we are where we are. Can I say that the other element of the counterfactual has been to ensure that we are transparent in the way that we present this information to be able to undertake our regulatory impact analysis and our way of going forward.Can I also say—and again it is a point that was highlighted at the very beginning of this debate which is the case for change. Now that we have established a dedicated waters regulator who will be able to in a more uniform way assess and monitor all councils in meeting drinking water standards—compliance monitoring and enforcement of those standards as well as fresh water standards—that will certainly lift the bar. That is going to put a lot of pressure on several councils who have had variable rates of performance. That was known right at the beginning; it's no secret amongst any of the councils. But most importantly what it will show is that there are a number of challenges for councils especially in waste water to be able to invest in waste-water treatment plant upgrades because they are currently now not meeting the standard. With Taumata Arowai they will have to meet the standard. There is a deficit in their ability to finance that. That is why we're pursuing the reforms that we're pursuing.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa): We have 20 seconds left.