Upston LouiseHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō): Thank you Mr Chair. I was quite specific in the questions that I asked about the numbers and I do expect an answer from the Minister on the questions about the numbers that I specifically asked. I asked about the number on the sole parent benefits. I asked—Hon Carmel Sepuloni: That's not relevant to this.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Oh well does she want to take another call because actually you accused me before of not listening to you so actually this is the one opportunity for the scrutiny of your legislation. You want it under urgency we're going to debate it—we're going to debate it at length—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Order! Order!Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I hope you're going to call her to account.CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): I'm going to make a ruling. The Minister in the chair does not interject from the chair OK? So please do not do that again. Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Thank you Mr Chair. Now I know debates in this House do get a bit emotive at times and I accept that comes from both sides but the reality is that this is a piece of legislation—again the majority of which we have had from this Minister that's debated with either no public scrutiny or a very reduced public scrutiny. So we will be taking our time. We do expect this House to allow the courtesy and the dignity and the accountability of scrutiny which is why I've asked some very straight questions around the numbers of sole parents on benefit currently that have exemptions in place. The exemptions are important they're for very valid reasons and it is important—I put those five exemptions on the record of the House in the first reading.Then I also want to know the reason behind the increase of 1600 sole parents that is forecast in the Budget documents—and this is a Budget debate on the welfare package. How has that figure been derived? What will be the fiscal impact of this policy? The current prediction is $115 million. My question was: how much more will that increase? Another question was: what steps will the Minister be taking to ensure that parents who are liable will pay their fair share? So the Minister said she doesn't want to apply a sanction—this is detailed in this piece of legislation in Part 1. My question is—on behalf of taxpayers up and down New Zealand—how will she ensure fathers pay for the children they are financially responsible for?In terms of reducing child poverty—and under National's time we lifted 85000 children out of poverty. So we absolutely support the work of this Government in continuing to reduce the number of children in poverty. Very closely related to that though is the number of children in benefit-dependent homes which is why this question around obligations and consequences and sanctions for those on the sole parent benefit is important. I do expect the Minister to take it seriously. I do expect the Minister to answer straight questions that are asked in this committee. The Minister herself has said that this piece of legislation is about reducing child poverty. Well I would then expect—if she takes that seriously—that she will answer every question that the Opposition raises in this committee to ensure that this piece of legislation is thoroughly debated and thoroughly scrutinised in order to deliver the intended policy outcomes that the Government has stated.We will have other questions. I am looking forward to that. In terms of the sole parent obligation I'm interested to know if there are other obligations that the Minister is expecting to lift—they're not in this particular piece of legislation. This is specifically around section 192—as I said before—which was formerly section 70A. When there is an obligation most New Zealanders would view that there is an obligation for dads to pay for their children. One of those obligations is to provide their details so that the mother and the support for those children through—in this instance the benefit system—can be fully delivered. The Government talks about entitlements. I agree that those children should be supported and it is a dad's responsibility and a mum's responsibility to ensure that those children get the support that they need and are entitled to. So I am asking the Minister to provide detailed answers to my very straight questions.