Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeCosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 05 September 2013. Volume:693;Page:13319. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour) to theMinister of Finance: Does he stand by all his statements?Hon BILL ENGLISH (Minister of Finance): Yes. In particular I stand by my statement in the House yesterday that I have listened to as much as I can stand of the Labour leadership—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is an unnecessary part to the answer.Hon BILL ENGLISH: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is quite common that when any Minister is asked whether they stand by their statements they are able to outline a statement that they stand by.Mr SPEAKER: Yes but when he is referring to statements that have been made involving the Labour Party leadership challenge I do not think that that is part of ministerial responsibility. I have accepted his answer to the question and we are moving on to a supplementary question.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Does he stand by his statement in his letter to State-owned enterprises in December 2009 that his Government is committed to “improving the performance of State-owned enterprises”; if so does he consider that he has improved the performance of Learning Media by having it join Solid Energy in the State-owned enterprises wreckage yard?Hon BILL ENGLISH: We have worked very hard actually to improve the performance of State-owned enterprises. The fact is that in the case of Learning Media the member is making the assumption that the Government can change the pressures and forces of what is going on in digital publishing and actually we cannot. Thatbusiness has struggled without the benefit of a monopoly contract with the Ministry of Education. It has made every effort that it could make but it simply is not the kind of company that can survive in the market with the rate of change in digital publishing.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Given that it was a decision of his Government via the Ministry of Education to end the preferred supplier agreement with Learning Media thereby significantly changing the market conditions that Learning Media operates under why when he knew over 2 years ago that there were problems and hundreds of thousands of dollars of salaries by the by did he not actively work with the board of Learning Media to develop a strategy to mitigate these issues and changes in market conditions or does the lack of action simply mirror his inept handling of Solid Energy and is yet another example of him and his Government being asleep at the wheel?Hon BILL ENGLISH: If the member knew anything about Learning Media and I suspect that he does not he would know that it has tried two particular strategies. One was to export our educational publications which do have a level of global excellence and the second was to buy CWA New Media another digital publisher. Neither of those strategies has succeeded and we are not willing to bail it out yet again. The previous Government bailed it out with several million dollars’ worth of capital—in fact it might have been tens of millions of dollars’ worth of capital—and that strategy did not succeed either. The fact that this company has been owned by the Government does not mean that it is exempt from all the commercial pressures that come on any business.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Does he agree that he has made history as a Minister of Finance who has now overseen the collapse of two State-owned enterprises that were collectively valued at half a billion dollars 2 years ago but are now through his own ineptitude basket cases?Hon BILL ENGLISH: No I certainly do not accept that. I mean if we want to go into the Government’s record the Government has actually because of circumstances had to go and bail out a billion-dollar guarantee entered into by the Labour Government on South Canterbury Finance and buy AMI Insurance which holds 30 percent of the Christchurch market. The fact is I know that Labour is completely disconnected from economic reality but Government businesses and other businesses have been under a bit of pressure recently.Hon Annette King: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Going back to the previous question the Minister said he was quoting from an Official Information Act report which is an official document. I would ask that he tables it.Mr SPEAKER: If the Minister was quoting from an official document—Hon Tony Ryall: He was referring to it.Mr SPEAKER: He was referring to an official document.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: Why did he not ask for a guarantee for theTīwai Point jobs up to 1 January 2017 when he was negotiating the deal with RioTinto as part of the $30 million payment that he made? Why did he not even ask for a guarantee of those jobs given that he states that the jobs are secure?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I have explained to the member that it was never the Government’s intention to try to run RioTinto’s business. In fact a guarantee of existing jobs atTīwai Point may well increase the possibility that it shuts down. If the operator is stuck with providing the current number of jobs it loses the opportunity we would all benefit from for it to further restructure that business so that it can survive. I know that the member would like to run every business in the country; we would not because we cannot. We believe that we have got the best deal possible and we are going to stick to that deal.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I seek leave to table several reports from media organisations including JessicaMutch ofOne News showing the litany of examples—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Such information is freely available to all members.Clare Curran: Is he aware that the lead contender for the position ofMāori Television chief executivePaora Maxwell was not considered suitable for the position by the recruitment company engaged to oversee the process and was not included on the shortlist but that this decision was overturned by his close friend and board chair Georgina te Heuheu; and does this meet his test for an appropriate appointment process?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I am advised by the chairman that all the correct procedures have been followed. I would say to members of the Opposition that anyone applying for a job in the Public Service deserves a fair go on their merits. The Opposition seems to think that anyone applying for a job in the Public Service or a Crown-owned entity is fair game for its political games and I think that is rather harsh on any candidate.Clare Curran: Is he aware thatPaora Maxwell has been in long-term debt to TeMāngaiPāho which is the major programming funder forMāori Television for money owed from his own production company TeAratai Productions; if so does he think it appropriate that the board would appoint a chief executive in long-term debt to the station’s programme funder?Hon BILL ENGLISH: I do not know—Te Ururoa Flavell: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Bearing in mind that no appointment has been made toMāori Television is this line of questioning appropriate in the sense that the appointment is still under consideration?Mr SPEAKER: I appreciate the point the member is making. On this occasion when I refer back to the primary question that was asked which was whether the Minister stands by all his statements I have with some reluctance to be honest ruled that the question is in order. Therefore it is for the Minister to answer as he sees fit.Hon BILL ENGLISH: I do not know the individual. I do not know anything about his circumstances. What I do know is that a strength of the New Zealand government system is that there is no political interference in the appointment of people to positions in the public sector. Unfortunately the Opposition has seen fit to attack the process. The fact is that the chairman has assured me that proper procedure has been followed. If there was any evidence to the contrary then I suppose we would look at it. I do not think that character assassination on someone who cannot do anything about it is the way to deal with public sector appointments although it is not the first time the Labour Party has done it.Clare Curran: Does he believe that the board should have accepted the offer of a briefing from the Television New Zealand Chief Executive Officer KevinKenrick given thatPaora Maxwell left the company without a reference and under a cloud of financial and staff mismanagement?Hon BILL ENGLISH: Well—Te Ururoa Flavell: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There are a couple of issues that have arisen out of this line of questioning. The first point is about the process but the second point which I really want to focus on is about what protections individual New Zealanders have in going through an appointment process when their past employment history is put in front of New Zealand society for all to see. They are applying for a job they have not even been appointed to any position at the moment and yet parliamentarians are able to follow this line of questioning which for me is way out of order. It is one thing to move to the process and another one to deal with the person.Rt Hon Winston Peters: You will recall that there was an appointment made to a Canadian who claimed to have qualifications and he had no qualifications whatsoever. Surely we do not want to make the same mistake a second time. It may be embarrassing for some members of Parliament but this is a transparent process andthese questions are entirely proper. Of course if the member is wrong then she will have to live with that and the public opprobrium will come. But if she has got the facts then she should be allowed to put them.Te Ururoa Flavell: I acknowledge the comments by Mr Peters but those discussions those revelations were made public after the appointment not before the appointment and that is the issue.Hon Trevor Mallard: Well now I think I have to intervene. The questions are about the process and whether or not the board of theMāori Television Service should take a briefing that is offered. It could not possibly take a briefing that is offered to do with an appointment after it has occurred. It has to be before in order to make sure that the process is proper.Mr SPEAKER: The way the questions have been asked has been more than about just process. They have certainly attempted to malign a particular candidate and that is a matter for the member who was asking the questions. This is a place that is a democracy and members in this House have the right to free speech but that comes with a responsibility to be clear of the statements that a member is making in asking those questions. If a particular member of the public feels that he or she has been maligned by this House there is a process by which they can seek to send a response to the House. I think we got to the stage where the question was asked and—Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect can I ask you whether it is in order for you to make a judgment as to a member’s motives when asking a question as you just did.Mr SPEAKER: No I did not. I am going to ask Clare Curran—Hon BILL ENGLISH: I do recall the question.Mr SPEAKER: Well if the Minister says that he recalls it then he can move to answer it.Hon BILL ENGLISH: It is a matter for the board as to what briefings it takes or otherwise. It is obliged to the candidates to follow fair process. Bear in mind that the make-up of the board is three Government appointees and four appointees made by theMāori Television Electoral College. So it is not a Government-appointed majority; it is a mixed board. But whatever the make-up of the board it is obliged to follow fair process.Hon Dr Nick Smith: Is the Minister aware of the serious failure of Public Service standards when politicians interfere in public sector appointments which resulted in the resignation of both a Minister—Mr SPEAKER: Order!Hon Dr Nick Smith: —and a chief executive under the previous Government and that the person at the heart—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I cannot see how that supplementary question relates to the primary question. Further supplementary question—[Interruption] Order! Further supplementary question Clare Curran.Clare Curran: Will he as shareholding Minister investigate the appointment process of theMāori Television chief executive and the board chair’s role in that process and if that process is found to be inappropriate will he ask Georgina te Heuheu to stand down?Hon BILL ENGLISH: The member is getting way ahead of herself. The board is in an appointment process. It is not complete. There has been no complaint to me from anybody about the nature of that process. Of course people are unlikely to complain until they see the result. But as someone who was the beneficiary of an overtly political appointment in the Public Service I would have thought that that member would be abit more reserved in her criticism of others who are trying to do their jobs under intensive public scrutiny.