8. Question No. 8—Social DevelopmentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 8—Social Development8. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by all her statements relating to employment initiatives for young people? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): Yes in particular Mana in Mahi which I'm sure my colleague Minister Jackson will elaborate on later but also the initiatives we have invested in to support young people with drivers' licences including the partnership between the New Zealand Transport Agency the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) and Oranga Tamariki to provide driver-licence support for up to 2500 young people over the next three years; the partnership between Auckland Business Chamber Auckland secondary schools and MSD to provide driver-licence support products to secondary school students in 20-plus schools; the partnership between MSD and New Zealand Police to refer young people found with licence infringements to driver-licence service providers; and the general MSD training for work and employment placement service programmes which now have a mandatory requirement to support clients with drivers' licensing. Hon Louise Upston: Why did she say yesterday that—and I quote—the previous Government didn't see fit to invest in drivers' licences for young people" when last year her department published a positive evaluation of the National Government's work on drivers' licences and does she intend to correct the record to state that this Government is following in National's footsteps when it comes to driver licensing? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Debates in question time can become very robust. The reality is that we're investing more into driver licensing than what the previous Government did. I read out many of the initiatives that we are currently engaged in. All of those—including the fact that it's now mandatory for MSD to provide support for clients to get into driver licensing—started under this Government. Hon Louise Upston: When will the Minister correct her answer? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: As I said the debate yesterday as it always is was robust in the House. The reality is that we have invested more. I will say that the previous Government did do something in this space—that's my correction—but we are doing more than they ever did. Hon Louise Upston: Does she believe that the $50 million investment in Mana in Mahi is money well-spent and if so why do almost one in five participants end up back on benefit? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I was going to leave this to Minister Jackson but I will respond to her question. To date 417 young people have engaged in Mana in Mahi. The member is right in terms of the fact that to date 68 percent have stuck with the placements. That's a really good result in our minds. Out of the 32 percent who haven't continued half of them—so 16 percent in total—returned to benefit. The rest didn't; they went on to other options. I do want to also let that member know that of those who have participated in Mana in Mahi—and this is mostly targeting 18- to 24-year-olds—39 percent of them were on benefit for over a year before they engaged with this programme and 10 percent were on benefit for four years or more before they engaged in this programme. So I think given those statistics and results we are doing a good job. Hon Louise Upston: How is an increase of 5500 young people on the dole delivering for—and I quote the Minister—"New Zealanders who need support"? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: As I've said a number of times in this House we have to keep the numbers in perspective. We've got one of the lowest unemployment rates that we have had in the last 10 years—all three of the lowest unemployment rates were under us—at 4.2 percent. With regards to young people not in education and employment we saw with the most recent release around what's happening with unemployment that there are less NEETs now than what there were previously. With regards to those that are currently on benefit this Government is doing everything that we can to help them realise their potential in a constructive way which of course means also supporting them to upskill and train so they can take up employment in the jobs that exist now and the jobs that will exist going into the future. Hon Louise Upston: Why has she delivered over 10 times as many young people on to the dole as into Mana in Mahi? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The member uses numbers in a funny way—in a very very funny way. I think that the statistics that I talked about are with respect to the young people that are engaging in Mana in Mahi to date—[Interruption]SPEAKER: Order! Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: —and the fact that there were a large number that had been on the benefit for a certain period of time but the success that we're seeing is really positive. I will also say that the commitment has been for 2000 young people in Mana in Mahi that we made at the Budget. We're already ahead of our target and we are very proud of the results that we're seeing to date. Can we do better? We always think we can do better and we will continue to stick on that path to supporting young people. Hon Simon Bridges: Would the Minister rather we don't use numbers any more in our questions? SPEAKER: I'm just trying to work out what I should do—I mean the member knows that question's out of order. The member knows that the Minister doesn't have responsibility for the Opposition's questions and I just can't understand why he's deliberately so disorderly. Hon Simon Bridges: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. At the start of the supplementary before mine the Minister said that well she wasn't going to respond to the questions as if she didn't actually need to and I interjected to that effect and you told me off. It was entirely unreasonable in my view with the greatest respect to you. I've then asked I think a perfectly legitimate question because the Minister in her answer has effectively said she's not too keen on numbers in the questions and I thought it was right—SPEAKER: Order! No I've had enough. [Interruption] Order! I've had enough. The member knows that he will resume his seat when I stand up. He will start off by withdrawing and apologising for not doing that. Hon Simon Bridges: I withdraw and apologise. SPEAKER: Dealing with the substantive issue I drew his attention to the fact that he was interjecting in the second person repeatedly and I think the member understands what that means. I called him to order for that earlier on not for anything else on that occasion—I mean obviously the member has been disorderly on other occasions earlier in question time. Hon Simon Bridges: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: I want to remind the member that he's testing my patience. Hon Simon Bridges: I would just ask you to go and reflect on the tape when you go back as I know you do because it does just rather seem that your left ear is rather more acute at picking these things up—SPEAKER: Right. The member will leave the Chamber. Hon Simon Bridges withdrew from the Chamber. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The answer that came from the Minister seemed to attack the Opposition for using numbers in questions. Now to ask her "Does she not like having statistics put in front of her?" when she has such an important portfolio that affects the lives of so many New Zealanders I don't think is at all unreasonable. SPEAKER: Question No. 9 Dr Shane Reti. Hon Stuart Nash: Sorry supplementary. SPEAKER: No too late."