Sio William: Customs and Excise (Joint Border Management Information Sharing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Sio William: Customs and Excise (Joint Border Management Information Sharing and Other Matters) Amendment Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:677;Page:475] 
SU’A WILLIAM SIO (Labour—Mangere) 
: 
 The Minister of Customs Maurice Williamson is perhaps the only Minister I have known in the past 3 going on 4 years who has consistently brought good news to this House in his portfolio of customs. Unlike my colleague Trevor Mallard I will not be making the allegations he made about why but simply will note that we all generally agree about the importance of protecting our borders and he is now the beneficiary of credit for work that goes back a ways to the time of Minister Rick Barker and to the time of Minister Nanaia Mahuta. I just want to lay that on the table for people to note. 
The Minister will also know that when he first introduced this bill there were some serious concerns despite our general agreement on it. The first point was around the sharing of information and privacy. That still remains the concern for me despite the fact that we now have the Privacy Commissioner being able to review the goings-on in 5 years’ time. I suppose the question that still remains doubtful in my mind is the period from the start to 5 years out. What happens when information is inadvertently shared with those companies or whomever that we do not want to have this information made available to? What systems are in place is my question in terms of how we ensure that that information is safeguarded for the purposes that we seek to have it available for? I would not mind the Minister being able to sort of allay those concerns because I think those were concerns shared by many on the Justice and Electoral Committee which deliberated on this particular issue. 
To expand a little bit on that I will tell you a story about something that took place last month. I had an aunt who passed away in Melbourne just as my younger brother arrived here and used the gateway system. He then had to go back to Melbourne with us. On arriving in Melbourne I was able to use the gateway system. My brother attempted to use the gateway system in Australia but he could not go through. Anyway I went through thinking it would be a matter of minutes before I would see him again. We arrived at 10 o’clock in the morning; I did not see my brother for another 3 going on 4 hours. What had happened was that apparently his passport was not scanned by the gateway system on the other side for whatever reasons. He was told that the machine did not pick up the number from the passport. So for 3 almost 4 hours he was questioned by the authorities there. There was no other information available to them to enable them to determine whether his passport was legitimate. In fact they made the allegation that perhaps it was a forged passport. So the officials there had to call New Zealand.  
The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy) 
: You need to come back to the bill.  
SU’A WILLIAM SIO 
: Well the point is in terms of what I said earlier about the sharing of information. This was very important information it was not available to the authorities there and for some reason or other it was considered that the information that the machinery should have had was in limbo and therefore we were detained for 4 hours my brother was alleged to be some sort of bad person and there were questions over whether that passport was legitimate or not. This was not his fault; this was the fault of the system. OK we paid by waiting around for 4 hours or so. The fear expressed by some in the industry and by other officials is what if this information ended up in the wrong hands. I think the example shared by some was that sensitive business information could get into the wrong hands. So that is one issue. 
The other issue that still is a matter of concern is the cost of the system that we are putting in. I think there have been some rough estimates of around $200 million maybe $400 million. Do we now have a correct figure? I would not mind the Minister being able to share that with the rest of us. 
I guess another concern also is that now we have added instant fines added other costs on the importers the fear is that those costs will simply be passed on to the consumers. Is that the reality for us? Do we expect increases in the costs of consumer items as a result of the change in the cost regime? I mean I think most people here in this Committee agree that yes if we are going to create jobs we have got to try to encourage and support business. That is one of the reasons why Labour has always supported reductions in the compliance costs of business but it seems that we are now going the other way by adding what some might say are unnecessary costs on importers with the threat by those importers that those costs will simply be passed on to the consumers. So I would not mind the Minister making some comments around those. 
Generally the rest of the amendments were minor. I do not know whether the Minister has answered Trevor Mallard’s questions about the dog. Did we ever find out what the difference is? The other point that I also make is in terms of secure customs areas and giving officials the power to use reasonable force. Have we determined what “reasonable force” is? The concern there is that officials are only humans. How do we prevent officials who are tired who might be upset from overdoing what may be “reasonable force” on unsuspecting travellers who might through no fault of their own end up in space that is considered to be customs space? I mean I would have thought that to prevent that you would have some clear big signs to ensure that people do not trespass into those particular areas. So those are really the concerns. 
 I was not part of the select committee so I do not know what updates have been made. I am generally asking the Minister whether he would mind sharing whether there are any changes to that. My biggest concern I have with this particular system is whether we are going to lose any jobs at the front line. Will we lose jobs by combining the systems for the collection and sharing of information? That is my contribution to what I do not consider to be very sexy legislation. I would have thought that this time would be better spent debating some of the issues that were raised in the maiden speeches by the Green Party earlier today and by my colleagues late yesterday. Speeches on closing the gap in terms of inequality would have been better than for us to be looking at border control which is an issue that we all agree we need to look after. I will finish off there. I am hopeful that the Minister will take the time to respond to some of the questions that I have raised. Thank you.