Hide Rodney: Urgent Debates — Report by Secretary of Labour—Immigration Service 
Hide Rodney: Urgent Debates — Report by Secretary of Labour—Immigration Service 
[Volume:611;Page:8337] 
RODNEY HIDE (ACT NZ) 
: 
 This is a very important debate about whether senior civil servants tell lies. It is a debate that goes to the heart of the integrity of our public service of our Government and of our Parliament. It is a question about whether senior civil servants will tell lies to cover up wrongdoing and corruption. Today I have received information that proves that senior civil servants have told lies to cover up corruption have seen their Minister tell lies to this Parliament and this Government knows about it. 
Ron Mark 
: Not another one. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Yes another one. With the Helen Clark administration we have a pattern of deceit of evasion of half-truth and—when push comes to shove—total lies. Let me walk members through what lies have been told. There can be no greater crime for a civil servant than to take payment in return for favours. There is no greater crime than to take payment for financial favours and that is what has happened under this Government. Not only that but when questions have been asked the Government has lied to cover up. 
This is the issue. On 13 February this year I asked the Minister of Maori Affairs whether any officials of Te Mangai Paho had received cash from Maori Sportscasting International. It was question for written answer No. 257. Here is the answer that the Minister of Maori Affairs gave— 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. The member knows that this is a debate as agreed by the House and announced by Mr Speaker. I will read it again if the member wants me to. The debate is about the report by the Secretary of Labour into allegations in respect of the Immigration Service and I warn the member to keep to that subject. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In fact this debate is on a report into the question of the integrity of the Government. I listened to the speech made by Mr Peters and you did not once pull him up although he put it into a wider context. Now Mr Hide is doing the same thing. With your having set the rules we cannot have one set of rules for the New Zealand First Party— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Yes we can. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Well Mr Peters says we can and I know he would like to have a different set of rules. In my view what Mr Hide is putting to the House is relevant. He is saying that this report fits into a systematic way of behaving by this Government. I assure you that that is most certainly relevant. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. I am ruling on the point of order. The previous speaker did not get into the specifics. This is about the specifics of another Minister. So I ask Mr Hide to continue. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
:I have ruled on this point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I know what you have done Madam Speaker. You have ruled on my point of order but I am entitled to put it without you prejudging the issue before I open my mouth. I have in my hand the State Services Commissioner’s press release from this day on this very matter. He puts it into a wider context and that is why Mr Hide is entitled to do so likewise. I invite you to read his press statement before you rush to judgment like you just have. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: As I said when I ruled on the matter members can put it into a wider context but they cannot debate the questions put to another Minister—namely the Minister of Maori Affairs. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I am responding to the claims made by the Minister who spoke earlier saying that under this Government everything is hunky-dory. I notice it is all right for her to talk in a general sense about how things are all OK but when one gets down to the specifics this Government is in trouble. 
Let me not refer any longer to the Minister of Maori Affairs’ answer to this House but let me talk about the responses of civil servants. I received this document today and it talks about how civil servants lie. This civil servant did not lie in unison; he just lied. Here is the reply from the Minister of Maori Affairs—and I have to do this to put it into context—“I am advised by my officials that there have been no payments of cash by Maori Sportscasting International to any employees of Te Mangai Paho.” That is fairly straightforward is it not? No cash was paid. Well Te Mangai Paho said: “Te Rangi was specifically asked by Trevor Moeke”. Trevor Moeke is the Chief Executive of Te Mangai Paho—or was. He asked in an email to Mr Tame Te Rangi on 20 February to which Mr Tame Te Rangi replied on 21 February: “Yes I was paid cash.” But this goes on to his report on 6 June which states: “Te Rangi admitted only to very few—hence reply.” So what we have within this Government—and its members know it—is a chief executive asking his senior manager: “Did you receive cash because the question has been asked in Parliament?”. The senior official went back to the chief executive and said: “I have received cash.” The Chief Executive of Te Mangai Paho Mr Trevor Moeke answered—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The comments made by the senior Government whip are a disgrace and disorderly. He should be asked to withdraw and apologise. Both allegations are uncalled for. Perhaps he should have a modicum of courage which I do not expect him to have and say it outside the House. 
Madam DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: The member is quite correct. I ask the member to stand withdraw and apologise. 
David Benson-Pope 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I want to remind the House of these facts. Did a senior manager of Te Mangai Paho receive cash payments in return for financial benefits from the taxpayer? Yes. Did the chief executive ask the senior manager whether such cash payments had been received? Yes. Did Mr Tame Te Rangi reply that cash payments had been received? He said: “Yes”. Yet this is the answer that was given to this House: “I am advised by my officials that there have been no payments of cash by Maori Sportscasting International”. Why was that? It was because Trevor Moeke the office of the Minister of Maori Affairs and this Government concluded: “Te Rangi admitted only to very few—hence reply.” I say they either got cash or they did not. 
We are discovering—and members of the Opposition parties know this—that there is a 0.5 percent tolerance for lying to this House because yes he received cash but only a few payments. So it is OK to say that he received none. By the Minister’s own documentation we have established that yes officials do lie yes— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: A sleazy Government! 
RODNEY HIDE 
: It is a sleazy Government because officials do lie. The Minister knows it and his officials know it. They lied to this Parliament. What they were lying about was not just a few corncobs but corruption in the heart of the Government. That is what it is if a senior official is being paid to hand out benefits and contracts. That is what was happening. 
Do people remember when Helen Clark promised a better Government and a new standard of accountability? Here is the standard—lies a pattern of deceit and corruption that is covered up. We have talked about this sort of corruption. Ministers come into this House and they lie. The Minister received this report on 6 June. On 6 June this Government was advised that Mr Trevor Moeke had lied because he had received payments—but only a few! What happened to Mr Moeke? He got a 9-month paid holiday. He got a golden handshake because it is claimed he was a model civil servant—one who lied to cover up for a Minister. That is what this Government expects of its senior civil servants. Dr Mark Prebble is another model servant so is Mr James Buwalda so is Mr Michael Wintringham. Why is that? It is because they go along with the pattern of deceit that is practised—from Helen Clark through to each of her Ministers and down through the senior civil servants. They do it in order to cover their backsides.