English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:635;Page:6415] 
7.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: What are the minimum requirements for an activity to qualify for unit standard credits in NCEA? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 The process to determine whether an activity qualifies for unit standards is that unit standards are put forward by a recognised standard-setting body such as industry training organisations the Ministry of Education and the New Zealand Qualifications Authority. They are then assessed by the New Zealand Qualifications Authority against registration criteria. Those include showing a need for the standard and showing that it represents an achievable outcome worthy of certification and is fit for its purpose. Credit value is based on the time taken to study learn and assess. Schools then select unit standards to shape courses that meet the learning standards of their students and as the spokesperson of the National Party will know those criteria were pretty much established under the previous National Government when unit standards were put into the system. 
Hon Bill English 
: Can the Minister tell us who decided that attending school for 20 days keeping healthy holding a conversation with a friend understanding friendship and gift-wrapping an item among other activities warrant two or three National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) credits and does he agree with those decisions? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: As I mentioned before to the member unit standards are put forward by recognised standards bodies such as industry training organisations. They are then assessed against a range of criteria. In relation to the particular items that were raised by the member I say all of those operate at level 1 in NCEA. They are not available at level 2 or level 3. If I take for example the gift-wrapping of customer purchases of the 70000 students who have gone through NCEA level 1 over the last little while two students have taken that particular unit standard. Those two students are examples of students who have learning difficulties and who obviously exit the system quite early and that is what most of those unit standards were put together for. 
Moana Mackey 
: How does NCEA better recognise the learning of all students? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: NCEA enables all students whether they are taking a maths programme or taking a lower-level programme at level 1 to leave school with a transparent Record of Learning that shows an employer or a tertiary institution what they can do and how well they can do it. Recent research into student motivation showed that students enjoy the flexibility of the system and that they enjoy being internally and externally assessed. It means that over the last 20 years we are now seeing a significant drop in the number of students who are leaving school with no qualifications at all and that they can take those qualifications on to an employer. I say once again in relation to level 1 that most of those qualifications are taken by students who are in supported learning situations. The fact that they have a qualification to take to an employer is a good thing. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Can the Minister confirm that the initial design of NCEA as agreed to by New Zealand First and National did not include unit standards the achievement of which would have been only recorded on the certificate and it was not until the break-up of the coalition Government that decisions were made to blend unit and achievement standards as integral parts of the NCEA with associated credits? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I can confirm that it was during that period of time that unit standards were put in in the way that we now see them. I would defend however the view that unit standards have a place in our schools in the way that I have just described at that lower level because they give students who will exit the system very early an opportunity to demonstrate what they can do and then take that to an employer. They cannot do those standards at level 2 or level 3. I would also say that because of the debate around these issues this issue is one of the ones that we are looking at. We want to make some improvements in this area. 
Hon Bill English 
: Has the Minister asked any students what they think of a system that equates gift-wrapping an item and understanding friendship as level 1 credits alongside other level 1 standards with the same number of credits such as describing ecological characteristics in two biological communities examining a contemporary geographic issue and evaluating courses of action and using geometric techniques to produce a pattern or object; and does he think that most students would regard it as fair that one gets the same number of credits for both lots of standards? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: As the member will know research such as that undertaken by Victoria University into the motivation of students raised that very kind of issue. That is one of the reasons that—unlike the National Party—we are seeking to address that issue. I would point out once again however that before we go down a track of ridiculously undermining what is going on at level 1 of NCEA these standards are available only at level 1. They are taken by students who are often in supported learning situations and it allows them to go off to an employer and say that they do have some job-relevant skills whereas the maths students being pointed out by Mr English will of course go on to level 2 and level 3 and hopefully on to further tertiary education. 
Hon Bill English 
: In light of the Minister’s comments that these standards are taken by students in special circumstances— 
Hon Steve Maharey 
: Usually. 
Hon Bill English 
: —usually—why did the New Zealand Qualifications Authority first tell the media last week that the standards were from a “special supported learning section” and that this would appear on the student’s record only then the next day back down and admit the truth which is that these are mainstream NCEA standards that earn the same kind of credit as every other standard and that in fact the Minister has no guarantee that they are not used by schools for all sorts of students and not just those he has mentioned in his answers? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I will let the New Zealand Qualifications Authority speak for itself. But I need to make clear it that that appears on the Record of Learning. For example in relation to the gift-wrapping of customer purchases standard which two students out of 70000 have taken the standard appears under a retail distribution and sales qualification. That seems to me to be a reasonable thing for many students to take if they were to move on to that; in a way it is surprising that only two have taken it. 
Hon Bill English 
: In light of the Minister’s emphasis earlier on the fact that more students are gaining a qualification can he confirm that a student who shows up to school for 20 days gift-wraps an item holds a conversation picks up litter and understands friendship will earn enough credits to meet the ministry definition of a qualification and therefore will appear in his statistics as someone who left school with a qualification? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: At level 1 that student could accumulate those kinds of credits. But let me just take one of the examples the member listed: the level 1 qualification that about 1500 students out of 70000 students have taken over the last little while in applied listening skills. The member may like for example to enter an MBA programme where lecturers teach exactly the same communication techniques as those. Those are worthwhile techniques for the students who will always exit the system early and hopefully they will apply them in getting a job.