Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:631;Page:3261] 
10.  
JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: Is he confident that the additional $1.5 billion being allocated to new roading projects will be justified by growth in traffic volumes given Transit’s figures showing a significant decrease in traffic on three Auckland motorways and the 5 percent increase in bus patronage reported by Stagecoach? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 There are already serious safety and congestion problems—not just in Auckland—that need to be fixed. Further traffic growth will merely add to that need and a 5 percent increase in bus patronage in Auckland certainly would not prevent growth in road usage elsewhere. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Has the Minister seen the survey commissioned by the Auckland Regional Council last year in which 87 percent agreed or strongly agreed that better public transport would make it easier to get around Auckland while only 46 percent agreed the same in relation to more roads; and how does he explain the projected drop in the percentage of funding to be spent on public transport—from 18 percent now to 10 percent in 2014—even before the huge increase in road funding he has just announced? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I can confirm that this Government has increased spending on public transport eight-and-a-half-fold since we became the Government. The fact that people say that public transport will improve their ability to get around Auckland does not mean to say they will actually use that public transport in the numbers that will lead to our having no need for roads. In any case as I have frequently said buses also need roads service vehicles need roads and goods traffic needs roads. It is not simply a matter of moving passengers around Auckland in terms of Auckland’s needs. 
Hon Mark Gosche 
: Why has so much additional money been allocated to the Waikato region? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: That region is a rapidly growing and key part of the transport infrastructure. It is essential that it has efficient and safe transport links. In particular the Waikato region has some of the biggest safety issues in terms of roading and the additional package tends to concentrate particularly on the area of safety and on a number of other areas relevant to Waikato’s own needs. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Can the Minister confirm that given the increase in funding in this Budget for the National Land Transport Fund and given the fact that the sum now exceeds the total amount collected from motor vehicle registration road-user charges and petrol—which is something the National Party has been calling for for years—he will now support a member’s bill that enshrines that increased funding to ensure it stays that way into the future? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: It is not my purpose in life to enshrine the National Party; it is to embalm it. 
Keith Locke 
: When the Minister told me in question time last Wednesday that there would be no new railway lines operating in Auckland did he mean to disagree with his colleagues Phil Goff and Mark Gosche both of whom have publicly supported the opening of the Onehunga line; and does he think that the cost of reopening that line which is estimated to be as low as $3.5 million can be fitted within the $1.5 billion extra transport funding announced in the Budget? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I do not think I said exactly that but I did point out that fundamentally Auckland does not have a metro rail network and it would now be impossible to build a metro rail network in Auckland because it would require tunnelling the entire network that would have to be provided. Without such a network rail can only be a small part of passenger movement in Auckland—particularly given the fact that Aucklanders do not all travel from the outside of the city to its centre. 
Hon Mark Gosche 
: Why has the Minister allocated so much money to transport rather than spending that money on tax cuts? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: This Government believes in investment in fundamental needs in terms of infrastructure health and education. Since the famous Australian Budget was announced I note that in Australia interest rates have risen consumer confidence has fallen and the Australian Labor Party—which has certain leadership problems it must be admitted—has moved out to an 8 percent lead in the preferred two-party vote. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: Is the Minister concerned that this increase in money available for spending on land transport and in particular roading will be completely wasted if the resource consent process we currently have continues which sees it now taking over 7 years to consent to a new road—a period of time the chief executive of Transit told the select committee was longer here than in anywhere else in the world—and if he is concerned will he be bringing measures to this House to get rid of the red tape that slows down and stops the building of new roads? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: On the latter point no—that is one portfolio I do not hold within the current Government although I am Acting Minister at the moment in that respect. In fact we do not have a problem around consent for any of the roading projects for the next number of years. Basically we have consent for everything we are able to build over the coming period of time so the important thing is to proceed with the consents. That is one reason to build greater certainty into the roading programme so it is known what it is we are trying to get consent for. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Why does the Minister think buses will need more roads in the future than now when the plan is to spend less and less of the transport budget on public transport after this year; and anyway can he name one major urban centre in New Zealand where existing roads would not be perfectly adequate for more buses if more people left their cars at home and used public transport? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The member continues to make the mistake that it is only a matter of moving people around from one place to another rather than moving a whole range of goods and services as well. In a modern economy people do not all sit at home self-sufficient—weaving their own baskets and making their own bread. In a modern economy goods and services are swapped around and a great deal of Auckland’s traffic consists of doing precisely that. One of the reasons for what the member is describing is that we are preserving or expanding the amount of money spent on roads; we are not reducing the amount of money spent on public transport. Members should watch this space in terms of further issues around rail. 
Peter Brown 
: Does the Minister accept that New Zealand roading has suffered years of neglect particularly under the National Government; and does the Minister also accept that if we want to develop this economy we must address our roading infrastructure problems? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: What the Government is committed to is in effect bringing up our investment in land transport to somewhere around the OECD average as a percentage of GDP; whereas under the National Government that investment was barely more than half of the OECD average. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: That’s not true. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: It was about 0.8 percent. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: It was 1.3 and it was— 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: It was not 1.3 percent on land transport; it was 0.8 percent. In a country that is long and stringy—if we wish to compare ourselves with Hong Kong or Singapore—it is remarkable that we do not spend more than the OECD average rather than less. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Why does the Minister think it makes sense to allow public transport spending to decline as a proportion of the total while spending on new roads is vastly increased when our dilapidated trains and buses in the main cities are full at rush hour now—and demand is growing—the use of motorways is starting to decline the public has said it wants better public transport services in preference to more roads and the price of oil keeps going up? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: In fact if the buses are fuller the bus operators get a bigger subsidy because that is the way the subsidy regime operates on the public transport network. Also if the buses are fuller one hopes that the private companies running those buses are then making a profit sufficient that they can invest in additional buses. The Government does not own the local public transport systems and it will not write a blank cheque for what are largely foreign-owned businesses—even though now of course they have been overtaken by Infratil which is a wonderful company for arguing that the Government should fund all its monopoly profits wherever they exist. 
Keith Locke 
: I seek leave to table a map published by the Auckland Regional Council that shows cross-town rail routes on the plans—not only the Penrose to Onehunga route I referred to in my question but also the Onehunga to Avondale route and the Manukau through to East Tamaki Botany Downs and Pakuranga route. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.