Wall Louisa: Crown Entities Reform Bill — In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Wall Louisa: Crown Entities Reform Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 23 May 2012. Volume:680;Page:2353. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
LOUISA WALL (Labour—Manurewa) 
: 
 I will start where I almost ended my last contribution. I want to focus again on the initial briefing to the Government Administration Committee by the State Services Commission on 15 February 2012. The last rationale for the Crown Entities Reform Bill was that the disestablishment of the Charities Commission and the transfer of functions to the Department of Internal Affairs were estimated to save the Crown $2.432 million over 4 years. These costs did not take into consideration the proposal for the three-person independent board. But I guess I would like to ask the Minister in the chair the Minister of State Services whether or not that is correct. If that is the biggest rationale for merging the Charities Commission into the Department of Internal Affairs it would be interesting to know given that there seems to have been no evidence for these financial savings. In fact I know that the group Te Ora o Manukau sent an email out and the Minister would have received it and its assertion is that it is more likely that the integration of information and communications technology systems information and operational functions will result in additional costs and wastage of resources already invested in the commission. No work has been done to determine the savings over the long and medium term of keeping the commission in place. So it would be wonderful if the Minister was able to provide some evidence about that.  
The other point that I want to highlight from the Te Ora o Manukau communication with me is that other countries have analysed the framework of the New Zealand Charities Commission with the intent to follow New Zealand’s lead. This is an area internationally where the way we do it here in Aotearoa is best practice. So it kind of does not make sense from our part of the world why the Government is pursuing this.  
We completely oppose Part 3 of this bill. We oppose the fact that communities and the community and voluntary sector organisations in our country have been ignored. When the select committee process went through it was very interesting to look at what the Government Administration Committee actually said. After committee members listened to the submitters—and of the 43 submissions 20 were specifically related to Part 3 of the bill with 19 opposed—this is what the select committee said. It did “acknowledge the strong concern expressed by submitters in relation to the disestablishment of the Charities Commission”. It did highlight that the process was interrupted with the end of Parliament which further added to confusion about the status of the submissions. There would have been many more submissions and many more community and voluntary organisations would have told the select committee exactly what they felt.  
Not all members of the select committee were convinced that legislative safeguards in the bill would be sufficient to maintain the degree of independence the Charities Commission currently provides. Members also expressed concerns that some functions would be less accessible to the public and less transparent when transferred to the Department of Internal Affairs. That is what the select committee said with a Government majority on the committee.  
What the Labour and Green members who were on that committee said—and I want to acknowledge the Hon Ruth Dyson who chairs that committee—was that “A review of the Charities Act is due to take place following the current review of the Incorporated Societies Act 1908.” So let the first-principles review occur. The Labour and Green members believe that the Charities Commission functions should not be transferred to the Department of Internal Affairs. No decisions on either legislative or operational change should be made until the review of the Charities Act has been completed and the independence and integrity of the Charities Commission cannot be retained if the functions are transferred to the Department of Internal Affairs. 
 We made some pretty clear statements about where we stood and it has been interesting as the spokesperson on the community and voluntary sector to talk to people in the sector about what they think about this part of the bill. When I say “the people of the sector” I am talking about the Association of Non-Governmental Organisations of Aotearoa I am talking about Philanthropy New Zealand I am talking about Social Development Partners I am talking about Bishop’s Action Foundation and I am talking about the J R McKenzie Trust. Letters have also been written I noted by two international speakers who attended a Charities Commission conference Lindsay Driscoll from the UK and Bob Wyatt from Canada. What they did was express concern at the impact of this move and the poor timing of it considering the planned review of the Charities Act that has already begun and is due for completion in 2015.  
The sector does not want this merger to happen. What the sector wants is for due process to take place for its voices to matter and for this Government to listen to it. My colleague the Hon Trevor Mallard will be moving an amendment that defers the introduction of Part 3 for 3 years because that is what the sector wants. On this side of the Chamber we are very interested in listening to our stakeholders listening to the people who are going to be most affected by this part of the bill. You know one of the four big points that our community organisations made was that the Charities Commission was established after over a decade of discussion between the voluntary and community sector and Government plus a detailed select committee process. There was an understanding that there would be a review of the Act which is actually going to happen. It is scheduled to be completed by 2015. So we do not understand why if one of the clear rationales for this bill was to save money if that is not the case why cannot we just let due process occur?  
That is the other challenge I have for the Minister: can he please explain why we will not let due process take its course. Let us see what the best configuration of the Charities Commission might be. I mean I could understand if this was going to save money if this was going to be more efficient or if this was going to provide some added value to the sector. But if we do not know that how can we just rush this part of this process through? This is within the context of the sector not having enough opportunity to have input and particularly in the context of the sector overwhelmingly asking you to please let the review happen. These questions I would really appreciate it if the Minister answered.  
I would also appreciate it if those members of the Committee seriously considered the community and voluntary sector organisations in your communities. I mean there are over 93000 community and voluntary sector organisations in New Zealand and over 25000 registered charities. The sector is very clear about what it wants so I just plead with you to please think about it and I look forward to the Minister explaining particularly that part of the rationale for the bill. We hope that actually tonight we have an opportunity to make sure that the voices of our community and voluntary sector—which are but one step away from the families and communities across Aotearoa whom they are helping meet the needs of—have a say in the framework around how they do their jobs. Thank you.