3. Question No. 3—Prime MinisterRt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime MinisterQuestion No. 3—Prime Minister3. Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government's statements and actions?Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes and especially our action to shift money out of the back office and the bureaucracy and into the front line. For the size of the public service surge in recent years we're getting money into the areas where it can make a big difference—things like structured literacy permanent funding for Pharmac drugs and big investments in law and order to keep our streets and our people safe. After years of financial mismanagement we know a good Government can invest in the front line support families with the costs of living and get spending back under control. Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Will he guarantee that there will be at least as many State houses at the end of this parliamentary term as there were at the start of it?Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I can guarantee is that there will be an increase in the number of social houses in New Zealand. Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he accept that there was a net loss of State houses under the last National Government?Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well I can tell you what we're not going to do is we're not planning to sell off 10000 State houses because your Government—that member's Government—borrowed $10 billion more and loaded that up on Kāinga Ora (KO) and they quadrupled the social house wait-list and they had more children growing up in motels. So we're going to solve the problem we're going to fix KO—it's a badly run organisation. We're going to fix it.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker. It was a very straightforward question and the Prime Minister hasn't addressed it. I asked him whether he accepted that there was a net loss of State houses under the last National Government.Hon Chris Bishop: He's not responsible for the last National Government.SPEAKER: No he's got absolutely no responsibility for the last National Government. [Interruption]. Hang on just calm down. Point of order the Rt. Hon Chris Hipkins. Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Just so we're clear so you're ruling—SPEAKER: Now hang on a minute. Just—calm.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: So you're ruling that the Prime Minister is not responsible for the actions of the previous Governments—just to be very clear?SPEAKER: That would be a very serious ruling so it's not one that I want to make off the cuff. So I'll take a bit of time to consider that. I hope that doesn't inhibit your questioning.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Perhaps while you're considering it Mr Speaker you could ask the Prime Minister to address the question then.SPEAKER: Well why don't you ask the question again and then we'll see how well it is addressed.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Thank you. Does he accept that there was a net loss of State houses under the last National Government?Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well I hope that member would understand—I've been here for three and a bit years so I wasn't part of that last National Government. But what I can tell you is that the Government that I am leading—this coalition Government—is incredibly focused on making sure we expand social housing in New Zealand. We have a supply problem created by that member and his former Government and we're not loading up $10 billion on KO in six years we're not quadrupling the wait-list and we're not putting kids into motels. We're going to solve the problem that he created.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Well if the Prime Minister is prepared to accept that allegation can he also accept that replacement of a promise of 100000 homes was met by 14000 homes—SPEAKER: Hang on a minute. Wait on—wait on. Rt Hon Winston Peters:—and was adequately inadequate?SPEAKER: There was no allegation. There's no allegation made. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Point of order. First of all Mr Speaker you should've never taken the question in the first place because there's no way any Prime Minister is responsible for a previous Government in which he wasn't a Prime Minister or a Minister in the first place. That's number one. I can't understand why this rule is being argued about here and if Mr Hipkins doesn't know that he should catch up read the Standing Orders and take some senior advice.SPEAKER: Well I'm sure he'll appreciate the advice that you've given him via the Speaker. I don't think that was a reasonable point of order though—it disrupts the flow of the speaker's—[Interruption]. Well you took a supplementary question that wasn't a reasonable question. There was no allegation. Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Does he agree with the then National Party housing spokesperson Nicola Willis who said in 2020 The Government needs to build state houses and what I would like to see is the Government continuing to build state houses. That's absolutely a policy that either Labour or National needs to continue in the years ahead"; if so how many additional State houses will he commit to building?Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: We are going to continue to build State houses and—and not or—we're going to continue to power up community housing providers to build more social houses as well. The aggregate one plus one is going to equal a lot more social houses available. But I can tell you under that member and the way that he left Kāinga Ora they are faced with a sell-off of 10200 houses in order to make the finances work because of the mess that you loaded them up with.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Will he honour the pledge signed by Nicola Willis committing to build 1000 additional State houses in Auckland each year—Hon Member: Social houses.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: —if not why not? State houses—the pledge says "State houses".Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: We are very happy to honour that commitment with the change that it's social housing.Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Will he rule out extracting a dividend from Kāinga Ora as the last National Government did?Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Yes. But what I'm also going to say to you: what we are ruling out is actually a board that has mismanaged Kāinga Ora a Minister that mismanaged Kāinga Ora. We are going to fix it. How on earth do you have a board that doesn't even have a financial statement? How do you actually have a board that just accepts the Government's going to tip $10 billion and load $10 billion of debt up on KO making it not financially sustainable and leading to a sell-off—as that previous Government planned—of 10200 State houses? Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Point of order Mr Speaker. The comment the Prime Minister made at the end of his question is blatantly incorrect. He is deliberately misleading the House. There is absolutely no evidence the previous Government was even contemplating that decision. The previous Government received no advice that suggested that. SPEAKER: I'll just tell the House: while we're hearing points of order—I didn't want to interrupt the member making that point of order but they are heard in silence.Hon Nicola Willis: Well the member has made a very serious accusation and one only has to look at the information and facts that are in the public domain to understand that it is correct. And actually what the member opposite should reflect on is if there were statements created that required 10000 homes to be sold either one of two things is correct: either that was the policy of the last Government or they were so utterly incoherent and incapable—SPEAKER: No that's enough.Hon Nicola Willis: —that they weren't aware—SPEAKER: That is enough. I just want to make this point; it might help. There is a provision if people believe that the House has been misled to in the first instance write to the Speaker so that it can be established one way or the other. And I'm open to that obviously. The Hon Kieran McAnulty a point of order.Hon Kieran McAnulty: Thank you very much. The point that the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins was making is that there was an accusation made that the previous Government had advice available to them. The Minister of Finance has confirmed to me in written questions that she commissioned that advice.SPEAKER: Well look I'm unable sitting here to determine the right or wrong of this. There is a mechanism—Hon Chris Bishop: What? That's not right. You need to get across your brief jeez.SPEAKER: —and I think that should be the default position for those who are concerned. [Interruption] I beg your pardon? No I'm happy to hear if you want to add to the debate somehow.Hon Chris Bishop: No I'm just talking to Kieran.SPEAKER: Yeah well members don't have those conversations across the House.Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: Will he commit to keeping the same criteria for someone to be placed on the social housing wait-list or will he reduce the wait-list by changing the criteria as the previous National Government did?Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Yes. What I'd say to that member though is we are in a conversation here about social housing. We want to see more social houses available in New Zealand. We want to see more State houses built and we want to see more community housing providers build more houses as well. But the first thing to do is rather than putting good money after bad we're going to take stock of the KO organisation make sure that it actually has a board refresh make sure it has a turnaround plan in place by November and make sure it gets on a financially sustainable footing. That is the first job that we have to do to clean up the mess that that member and his Government left us."