Little Andrew: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLittle Andrew: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 10 February 2016. Volume:711;Page:8832. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]2.ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he have confidence in the Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment in light of student loan debt being set to pass $15 billion this year?Rt Hon JOHN KEY (Prime Minister): Yes I do have confidence in the Minister who is doing an excellent job of improving results in the tertiary sector. I note that since 2008 the Government has increased its investment in tertiary providers by 14.5 percent to over $2.2 billion a year and nearly 20000 more New Zealanders achieved a tertiary qualification in 2014 than they did in 2008.Andrew Little: Why have tertiary fees risen by roughly 37 percent on his watch while Government tuition funding has risen by just 3 percent and can he see that that has made tertiary education less affordable?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The first thing I think we reject as a Government is the Opposition’s numbers. But I think it is worth looking at what the situation is for a tertiary student in New Zealand. At the moment taxpayers subsidise tuition for all students and around 70 percent of the costs overall are borne by the taxpayer. In some cases it is over 80 percent. We know that 5 years after they have completed their Bachelor’s degree the median earnings of those young people who stay in New Zealand are 46 percent more. I think that those students are getting a pretty good deal under the current settings.Andrew Little: In light of that answer and his rejection of the fee rise of 37 percent under his watch is he now saying that Statistics New Zealand’s tertiary and other post-school education price index that records the tertiary fee rise at 36.76 percent is unreliable and cannot be referred to?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No what I am saying is that the member is generally unreliable when it comes to that.David Seymour: Has the Prime Minister seen any reports that Universities New Zealand is concerned that 100 percent taxpayer funding of tertiary education could lead to cost constraints and declining quality?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The member makes absolutely the right point. Nobody has stopped going to university at the moment. They are free to get a student loan obviously and as we have just commented on the vast bulk of those were actually paid by the taxpayers. So all that would happen here is that the universities would get no more money; just slightly more would come from the taxpayer. Almost certainly the quality of those courses would fall. There would have to be control over the costs of those courses and it would be yet another failed policy by the Labour Party.Andrew Little: Does he agree with Steven Joyce’s statement about advanced education that “if you don’t have to pay anything for it its value is nothing.”?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Well I do agree with the Minister in the context of everything he would have said around this particular area which were the only sensible comments being made. But I think if you go and ask most New Zealanders and say if someone can get a Bachelor’s qualification and after 5 years earn 46 percent more than the median wage they pay off their loan within 6 years and they have between about 70 and 80 percent of their costs paid for by other taxpayers I would say that they would say that is pretty fair.Andrew Little: Where does he get off laughing at New Zealanders who want better access to education when his Bachelor of Commerce degree which today would cost $18000 was free; Bill English’s Bachelor of Commerce and Bachelor of Arts in English literature worth $24000 today was free; and Steven Joyce’s 21-year epic zoology degree worth $19000 today was also free?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The only thing that I am laughing at is the Labour Party—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The level of interjections means I now cannot hear the answer. Just settle down on my left-hand side.Rt Hon JOHN KEY: The only thing I am laughing at is the Labour Party which last week was telling us that the biggest single issue facing New Zealand was the Trans-Pacific Partnership. We have not seen a single question in this House on that topic. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! If I continue to get interjections from the left-hand side I am going to have to ask somebody to leave.Andrew Little: Given his argument that people do not value free things is he admitting that his degree Bill English’s degree and Steven Joyce’s degree have no value?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Far from that being the argument the question will simply be that if it is completely free will there be any control on the quality? If you take anybody who went to university at my time and who lived away from home and you put them in the same positions today even if those fees were free they would still have to borrow for their living or costs. There was still a charge back even when I went to university so in the end it does not eliminate the student loans.Andrew Little: Given his comments about the value of education and his claim that his Government has cut low-value courses what value does he see in courses that he funds on homeopathy for pets and iridology?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I am delighted that one of the first things the Government did was cut most of those but I can be very confident if Labour’s policy is introduced that many of them would return. The only thing is for Labour’s policy to return Labour would have to win four elections which on my calculations would take about 12 leaders.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have called for order from my left-hand side. It now also applies particularly to Mr Joyce.Andrew Little: Is it not the truth that National opposed Labour’s interest-free student loans National has ramped up fees by 37 percent making access to higher education harder and only Labour stands for affordable higher education and investment in everyone’s future so that everybody gets a chance to live the Kiwi Dream?Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No that is not correct. But what is correct is that in 2005 when the zero percent loan scheme was announced on the campaign trail by Helen Clark (a) the Labour Party refused to in fact allow those costings by Treasury into the public domain; (b) the Ombudsman had to overrule that; (c) Trevor Mallard did not even want to front up because his knees were knocking on Close Up; and (d) it ended up costing a whole lot more than even Treasury thought. What we know about this scheme is it would be even worse. The truth is—Mr SPEAKER: Order! No I have heard quite enough.