Ngaro AlfredHon ALFRED NGARO (National): Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker. Can I first of all just acknowledge Rino Tirikatene-Sullivan when he was talking about the importance of the role and responsibility that he has in putting this bill forward. I want to commend him for that. He talked about Matangireia which is the old Māori Affairs Committee chamber which when I started in 2011 was right opposite my office. Every morning when I used to come through Parliament and I walked past it in the hallways I too used to look up at the photos and I would simply say Mōrena e tūpuna." ["Good morning ancestor."]People would sometimes say "Gee who are you talking to?" and I'd say "I'm actually talking to the ancestors that have been here tūpuna who have gone through this place who represented Māori and also New Zealanders in the House of Representatives." They said to me "So why did you do that?" and I said "I suppose it's a cultural construct that we have that we acknowledge those who've gone before us." As I did that it was acknowledging the fact that I'd even say something simple like—and I felt that they would say to me "When you're here do the best that you can. Bring your A-game to this place and know that you represent not only those of your electorate and those of your constituents but also too the country as well." So Rino I want to acknowledge you—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Order! Please refer to him in the proper way.Hon ALFRED NGARO: —sorry I acknowledge Rino the member—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Order! Can you use the member's full proper name please.Hon ALFRED NGARO: I'm just about to say—sorry—Rino Tirikatene and I was getting confused with but I want to acknowledge his auntie Whētu Tirikātene-Sullivan who is on the wall as well. So I acknowledge the fact of what you are trying to do in this bill.However as has been said by the members on this side we cannot support it because actually in doing your best I feel that there is more that could be done. The member believes that there is more that could be done. In regards to this piece of legislation if it was not only able to be put as a member's bill but if it had the full support of the coalition Government of today then it would be a constitutional piece of legislation that would be part of a Government bill. So here's the issue of concern that I have. It is the fact that if the members in the coalition agree with this then it would be a constitutional piece of legislation that would be a Government bill.I have to say to the member from New Zealand First Darroch Ball who sounded like a wet fish as he got up to somehow deliver his little speech there to say what their position was that it was very difficult because when his own leader of the party in 2017 campaigned here's the words that he used. He used the word "separatism". He used the words: "We will only have a referendum for the abolition"—for the abolishment; that means the doing away with—"of all Māori seats." So how can that member stand in this House and say that their support is dependent on one thing—that they have a referendum? To do what? To see the abolition of the very intent of this bill. So how does this member stand in this House and how will he tell his supporters up and down the country that they support this bill only if they have this referendum to abolish the very intent of this bill? I think this member will know the insanity of the bill that he's trying to put through with this.We cannot support this bill and as I was looking through—[Interruption]ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Order! Order! I've asked these two members just a few minutes ago to please stop having a conversation across the Chamber.Hon ALFRED NGARO: Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker. In the Hansards of 1867 where the bill was initiated for native representation which is what it was called at that time—and I agree with the intent of the bill in the Hansards that we should have Māori representation. But you see the history of the Labour Party is that in October 2008 at Ōtamatea Marae on the shores of Kaipara the then member who was the Prime Minister of the country the Rt Hon Helen Clark clearly stated this—and this is what she said—"I've given an absolute commitment that a Labour Government isn't going to touch those seats. But that doesn't mean that we will support the extent to entrenchment." "We will not support … to entrenchment."—this is what the Rt Hon Helen Clark actually said at that time: that she did not believe that was the best intention for Māori.So we have to say quite simply that we do not support this but not because we don't support the intent of Māori representation when in New Zealand in our Parliament today we have 30 representatives of Māori descent represented here. We believe there are other ways to be able to do that. We don't believe that this bill will achieve that so we cannot support this bill to the House."