Lyndon HūhanaHŪHANA LYNDON (Green): Tēnā koe Mr Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this part of the legislation. I want to explore with the committee and with the Minister particularly around the knowing or the knowledge of an individual that they are even in a public place because we are criminalising kākahu—we are criminalising clothes—and the ability for an individual to wear whatever kākahu they want to. Now in terms of the legislation in clause 7(1) it says that A person commits an offence if the person knowingly and without reasonable excuse displays gang insignia at any time in a public place." I go to page 5 of the commentary on the bill where we're talking about prohibiting gang insignia in a public place and there were submissions on this because how do you actually prove that an individual knew that they were in a public place? How does the individual actually know that the cemetery that they are at for a poroporoaki to their loved one is a public place—just your average community cemetery run by a council? Or how does the individual know when they are running up the road to the supermarket that "Oops! I got caught with my patch on. So therefore I could be locked up for six months away from my whānau or charged $5000 which I can't afford."? So I want to explore how we are going to get successful prosecutions knowing we've already had advice as to how you are going to prove that an individual knew that they were in a public place. It puts a harder burden on the individual police officer or the person who is watching and reporting on this to prove that the individual actually knew because they could be at the laundromat and they could be just drying their clothes and would that individual know that wearing their T-shirt is actually breaking the law? I raise T-shirts because we wear T-shirts and whānau wear T-shirts with slogans all the time. Slogans like "Tino rangatiratanga" "He Whakaputanga" "Toitū Te Tiriti"—oops! Heads up. So when we have gangs who might have T-shirts at what point do we deem it a gang insignia and a symbol when actually it can be just average kākahu because we are criminalising kākahu. Is it just the leather patch? Is it just the patch—shucks I should have asked my uncle for his patch; bring it into the House. Is it only just the patch or is it the jersey is it the T-shirt is it the bandana or is it the colours that I wear—because I know just like in Tokoroa don't wear red. Don't wear red in Whangārei unless your head's up. So that's what I want to explore with the Minister: how on earth are we going to successfully prosecute that a person knowingly knew that in the laundromat that they were drying their clothes in they were breaking the law by wearing a gang T-shirt and the gang T-shirt might just say "Black Power" or "Mangu Kaha". It may not even be the entire insignia. How does the police officer define what gang insignia is because "Mangu Kaha" could be black power of a range of things. It could be related to a marae or a hapū. So that's what I'm wondering about: first the definition in terms of what the insignia is and what the kākahu will be because we're criminalising it but further how on earth do we prove that the person knew that it was public? Because if you're in the supermarket if you're at the cemetery and if you're going about your daily business and you didn't realise that you were in a public place like the playground with your tamariki—how are the police going to prosecute a mother with her children who are just strolling along to the playground locally just down the road and she just happens to be wearing a bandana and a "Mangu Kaha" T-shirt? Kia ora."