3. Question No. 3—FinanceNICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 3—Finance3. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by all of his statements and actions related to Government tax and spending decisions?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): Yes in the context in which they were made and undertaken acknowledging that contexts can change and sometimes require—to quote the member—a step forward".Nicola Willis: Does he think it's appropriate for the Government to increase petrol tax in the midst of a cost of living crisis?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Two points in response to that: firstly the announcement of the Government policy statement on transport today indicates that from 1 July next year there will be a 2c increase six months later followed by another 2c increase in recognition of the fact that inflation is starting to come down but is not where any of us would be comfortable with it. Secondly when it comes to transport it is important to be able to say how one will pay for what one is doing. Every cent of fuel excise duty (FED) and road-user charges (RUC) goes into our transport network. Governments have always increased it up until the COVID period in order to pay for transport. It is simply not on to have a $10 billion gap in a transport policy as the member does.Nicola Willis: Is he aware that in July next year the Reserve Bank forecasts that inflation will remain out of control out of its target band so New Zealanders will be paying higher prices across the economy; and why in that context does he also want to increase the amount of tax on their petrol?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: To reiterate the answer that I have just given: this is how we pay for roads rail public transport walking and cycling in New Zealand. If political parties don't want to do this they then have to come up with a way of explaining how they will pay for it and all we've seen from the Opposition is a $10 billion hole in their transport plan.Nicola Willis: Is the Minister of Finance aware that the New Zealand Superannuation Fund KiwiSaver fund providers and iwi want to invest their funds in infrastructure; and why would he prefer to tax New Zealanders more to deliver it?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Because it's not a magic money tree. At some point the consumers of New Zealand pay. Now I know that the National Party's record on this means that they think it is a free lunch—that's why they costed Transmission Gully at $850 million and it cost $1.2 billion. We've been upfront about how we'll pay for New Zealand's transport needs. That's not what New Zealanders are getting from National.Nicola Willis: Does he recall the Government committing that the increase in the Auckland regional fuel tax would help deliver Auckland light rail and how's that going?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The Auckland regional fuel tax has been able to deliver a range of transport projects across Auckland—Mr Brown has been at the opening of some of them. On this side of the House I reiterate for the member: if we're going to build roads if we're going to build rail if we're going to have public transport it has to be paid for. That's come through FED and RUC. At the moment all New Zealanders have got from the National Party is a $10 billion gap in their transport plan.Nicola Willis: Does he recall a few months ago standing next to the Prime Minister as he reduced the fuel excise tax and saying that that was necessary due to the cost of living crisis; and why has he completely flip-flopped by saying he'll now increase petrol tax despite the cost of living crisis persisting?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The rate of inflation in New Zealand has been coming down. It is now down to 6 percent. It is forecast to keep coming down. We are staging the increase in the fuel excise duty and RUC to take that into account. What we're also doing is being responsible with the Government's finances and we're saying to New Zealanders: this is how we pay—44c a week for the average motorist to help pay for this transport. On the other side of the House we've got a $10 billion gap in their plan. It's a fiction and New Zealanders will see through it.Nicola Willis: What does he think would have more impact on the typical family budget: having to pay $7 more every time they fill up as would be the case under his excise tax plan or the proposals of some political parties that they would give more money to supermarkets for a GST reduction that might reduce the cost of apples by a few cents?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I think will have a big impact on New Zealand households is a Government that would give unfunded tax cuts and then have to cut health spending education spending spending on housing. It would see more kids in poverty. It would see fewer people getting apprenticeships. They're the things that'll impact on a household. It's about a balance it's about a responsible approach and all we're seeing from National are unfunded promises.Nicola Willis: Why would New Zealanders trust that more dollars paid by them at the pump to pad his tax revenues would actually deliver a single road when his Government has been so deficient in the delivery of any major transport project?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member needs to be really careful here. Every single cent of fuel excise duty and road-user charges goes directly to public transport to roads to rail—that's how we fund the system. It's what Gerry Brownlee did. It's what other Ministers of Transport have done. They increased FED and RUC to make sure the money was there. Instead what we're going to see here now from National is a $10 billion gap and a repeat of what they did: where they didn't fund road maintenance properly where they didn't look after the transport network. We put out a funded plan; all we've got from National are unfunded promises."