Macindoe TimHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): Thank you Madam Chair Tolley—a tremendous choice. It's been fascinating listening to the Minister in the chair the Hon Stuart Nash. I have to say that he did not answer the point that was raised quite fully and impressively I think by the Rt Hon David Carter. What an impractical suggestion. He was suggesting it's a practical measure. What an impractical suggestion it is to have a bill where you effectively say to any member of the public who's eligible Here's some money. The taxpayers are happy to give you a dollop of money. But don't take it." Really Minister—are you seriously suggesting that that is going to work? It'd be like Minister you saying to your children "We're going to take you out and we're going to let you spend quite a bit of money on Christmas presents but you don't have to." I wonder how many children realistically are going to say "Well I'm not interested in taking that. I'm very happy just to sit down and watch my father have a latte or something." It is not realistic and it's very very bureaucratic and cumbersome as is the measure he just talked about about people being out of the country for a certain period of time.Well I think it comes as a surprise to all of us on this side of the Chamber that we're even debating Part 2 at this very early stage in the day. I think most of us expected we wouldn't get on to Part 2 until tomorrow morning or later because after all Part 1 had so many weighty measures in. The important point about that was that we were putting a whole raft of questions to the Government very few of which they even acknowledged and hardly any of which they actually answered. And so here we are this afternoon already looking at Part 2 and there are also some very important and weighty matters in Part 2 that do require a detailed engagement from the Government. I acknowledge the fact that we've had a couple of calls so far from the Minister in the chair Stuart Nash but apart from that again we're seeing Government members with their heads down clearly not taking any notice. They're here only because they're on the roster. They're showing no interest at all in the fact that these are fiscally very important measures. They must look at Part 2 of this bill and consider just what they are doing—Hon Member: It's only happened in the last two minutes.Hon TIM MACINDOE: I say to Mr Faafoi—Mr Faafoi who's suddenly woken up from his deep slumber. It's always lovely to see Mr Faafoi awake and smiling across the Chamber. Ha ha! He must understand that in this bill the Government is spending the lot. This is a one-hit wonder where they've dished out everything they've got for the next three years. They really should be taking a much more intelligent approach to how they answer the questions and why they've made some of the decisions they have. And they certainly must give the public some answers. They've got to answer the very legitimate point that was raised by the Hon Nick Smith as to why Jacinda Ardern when she was the Leader of the Opposition and the man who's now her Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters went around the country effectively misleading superannuitants who now lose under this bill. And there is no question that superannuitants are losing. Dr Smith has rightly posed the question the Government cannot run away from answering it and I challenge them to do so. Mr Nash certainly didn't in his first call.For superannuitants who we all acknowledge will struggle with power bills—anybody on a low income anyone who's on a benefit and superannuitants will struggle with power bills. But this is not the way to assist them with that. When I take one of my later calls on this particular part I am going to speak very specifically to my amendment and I think also that of the Hon Jacqui Dean and the Hon Alfred Ngaro who's already mentioned his. We've all got some very practical suggestions on how to improve this aspect of the bill and I really urge the Government to focus very clearly on those proposed amendments to look at the practical suggestions that we're all going to be putting forward across the next few hours. Because this is what constructive Opposition is all about and which we believe will make those much more effective measures to assist those particularly the superannuitants who may struggle with their power bills or at least with dealing with the issues that they confront during the winter.So at this stage because time is running out I just want to urge the Government again to engage in this debate. These issues matter. They shouldn't just be dismissed because the Government members are hoping to get home in a hurry. This is the choice of the Government to introduce this bill under urgency. We're here engaging seriously on it. We expect the Government to do the same and in particular to explain why they've made some of the decisions that they have which have now been legislated for in this bill and are poorly focused hugely expensive in many ways will not meet the target—[Time expired]"