Simpson ScottHon SCOTT SIMPSON (National—Coromandel): Thank you Mr Chair. I just want to pick up a little bit on the comments made by my colleague Erica Stanford in relation to the industrial allocation. I want to thank the Minister for his answers to her questions but there are a couple of matters that I do just want to tease out if I might. At select committee and in our report we felt—well a majority of us felt—that actually there was a greater need for ministerial flexibility when it came to reviewing industrial allocation phase out. The statute that we are considering suggests initially that if there are to be changes it should be on the recommendation of the commission—and we don't have any disagreement with that—but because the number of high-emitting businesses that are allocated industrial allocations is relatively small some of them have very specialised contributions to make to the New Zealand economy and our way of life.One of them that came to select committee and really did go into some detail was the New Zealand refinery up north at Marsden Point. And therein lies a real issue because they told us that they had a special agreement that had been entered into in good faith years and years ago at the time when the refinery was set up going back as far as the mid-1960s to a period of time before the refinery was set up when actually we imported refined fuels into New Zealand in a finished state. I don't think we would want to as a country go back to that. So there's a case in point where the refinery company makes a good solid contribution in terms of the day-to-day lives that we have—and yes over a period of time one would expect that the reliance that we have as a nation on fossil fuels to provide fuels for transport for light and heavy vehicles will diminish. That's fine and dandy. But the Minister in his answer to my colleague Erica Stanford's question was quick to point out that the component that was the free allocation cost if you like to that business relative to revenue was very tiny. But as a former boss of mine used to often tell me a sale isn't profit. And what's more actually it's the margin; it's the proportion of the impact on the profit and the ability for that entity to trade profitably on an ongoing basis that's frankly more important than the revenue number.And yes in recent months petrol prices at the pump have dropped but I don't think even in his wildest imagination the Minister is expecting that to continue for very long. And at the current level of $25 a tonne it's estimated that that portion is about 4c a litre—and if I heard the Minister correctly he said at $35 it's going to increase by nine. So is that 13c in total or is that 9c in total at $35? So I'm keen to know just clarity around that because $35 a tonne is just the sort of transitional stepping stone and it's the point at which New Zealanders start to understand the true impact and cost of climate change when it hits their wallet. Of course when you get for instance at $35 a tonne a 9c a litre impact at the petrol pump that has a ripple effect through the entire economy. It's not just the price that the consumer pays at the pump; that's the same price that the courier or the freight company delivering tins of spaghetti to the supermarket—and that has a price component that multiples through the economy.So I'm keen to know just firstly about some of those industries that are currently receiving the industrial allocation who play a special part in the very fabric of the New Zealand economy and our way of lives and how he sees that playing out and the flexibility he sees in this legislation to enable him as Minister to respond to situations as they have occurred. And for instance we've seen just in the last month or two an unexpected huge situation arise that no one could have rationally foreseen that requires an ability for ministerial intervention in a nimble flexible timely way if necessary. And secondly I'm keen for him just to be a bit more precise about the impact for instance of petrol prices at $35 a tonne and also what that might mean beyond petrol prices and for other aspects within our economy.