Hodgson Pete: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hodgson Pete: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:657;Page:6276] 
8.  
Hon PETE HODGSON (Labour—Dunedin North) 
 to the  
Minister responsible for Ministerial Services 
: What conditions must be met before it is permissible to lease a home from a family trust for use as a ministerial residence? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
 on behalf of the  
Minister responsible for Ministerial Services 
: Mr Speaker— 
Hon Members 
: Oh! 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: My adoring crowd! The Minister must have no pecuniary interest in the property and the rent must be based upon market value. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister responsible for Ministerial Services is of course the Hon John Key the Prime Minister. It is the practice that when he is absent the Deputy Prime Minister— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member knows that is not a point of order at all. It is the Government’s absolute right to choose who will answer a question when the Minister is not present in the Chamber. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: But the No. 2 is here. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is irrelevant. [ 
Interruption 
] The Hon Trevor Mallard will stand withdraw and apologise for that statement right now! 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Mr Speaker— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have called the Hon Pete Hodgson. We will hear his question. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Why was the Minister reported in the  
Independent Financial Review  
of 6 August as stating that it was “a simple coincidence” that the Hon Bill English had removed himself from his family trust and that it was unrelated to Mr English’s claiming almost $1000 a week for accommodation expenses? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I am not in a position to make a comment on a newspaper report. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Why did the Minister say that Mr English’s actions in removing himself as a trustee from his family trust were unrelated to his claiming almost $1000 a week for accommodation expenses when it transpires that they not only were related but were in fact a prerequisite? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I think the questioner is leaping to a number of conclusions that are quite unreasonable and for that reason I say to him do not believe everything you read in the newspaper. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I hope the member was not referring to the Speaker. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: What is the Minister’s view of the Hon Bill English’s comment to TV3 on 4 August that it was “certainly not the intent” that he change his affairs in order to claim almost $1000 a week and can the Minister now confirm that it was precisely the intent? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The Minister has absolutely no responsibility for any comments made to TV3 by anybody else. What I will say though is that I believe the Hon Bill English to be doing an excellent job for New Zealand in difficult times and he is an honest man. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Hon Pete Hodgson. [ 
Interruption 
] Do those members want to hear their colleague’s question or not? 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Can the Minister confirm that at a 6 percent interest rate the rental paid in respect of Mr English’s ministerial residence would be sufficient to service a mortgage of more than $600000? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The Labour Opposition has long celebrated my dim-wittedness. I could not do anything quite as clever as that quite so quickly. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Can the Minister confirm that his deputy the Hon Bill English provided a signed document to Ministerial Services on 1 February this year declaring that he no longer had a pecuniary interest in his family trust the Endeavour Trust? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The Minister responsible for Ministerial Services does not have a deputy. However I can confirm that yes that is the case. The member will know that because it was in an Official Information Act release that he received last Monday. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Would a Minister who claims no pecuniary interest in a trust but is still a settlor or has a right to appoint trustees or still decides the vesting date and is therefore still one of only two people controlling the trust be entitled to Ministerial Services’ funding for a residence owned by the trust? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: That would depend entirely on the structure of the trust. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Would the Minister therefore advise his colleague the Hon Bill English to publicly release the trust deed so that these questions might be cleared up? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: What I am advising my colleague the Hon Bill English to do is to hold his head up high because he is an honest man. He does not have to bend to the jealous and pathetic attacks coming from the Labour Opposition. There has never been such a pathetic effort in the whole time that I have been in Parliament. But I would ask this: will the Labour Opposition— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member will sit down. [ 
Interruption 
] Members might have noticed that the Speaker is on his feet; there will be silence. The Hon Gerry Brownlee should recognise that Ministers do not ask questions; they answer them. There is no need for that kind of carry-on in answering a question either. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My colleague Mr Hodgson asked whether the Minister answering the question would advise his colleague to publicly release the trust deed. It was a supplementary question in direct response to the Minister’s previous answer. The Minister went nowhere near addressing that question. Instead we got political invective which you have responded to but we are still without an answer to the very clear precise question that Mr Hodgson asked about whether the Minister would advise his colleague to publicly release the trust deed so that there could be some openness about what the arrangements are. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the member has to recognise that when that kind of question is asked—will a Minister advise someone of something—the questioner is likely to get a response that does not necessarily cover the advice that the questioner wanted to hear. Plenty of Speakers’ rulings state that members cannot expect a yes or no answer and when a member asks that kind of question no precise answer can be expected. I was concerned though about the abuse that came at the end of that answer after I had called for order; it was not acceptable and I do not want to hear anything further of that kind. As far as the first part of the answer was concerned I believe that it was in order but the final part was not. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Has he sought an explanation from Ministerial Services or from the Hon Bill English as to why changes to the trust deed were purportedly made prior to the election last year but the title was not changed until 12 March this year? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The salient word in that question is “purported”. We do not take actions in this case on the basis of what are effectively baseless allegations from the Opposition. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Will the Minister seek an explanation from Ministerial Services or from the Hon Bill English as to why changes to the trust deed were purportedly made before the election last year—that is what the Hon Bill English says—but the title was not changed until 12 March this year; if he will not why will he not? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The answer to that question has been given publicly before. Quite often these things take time to effect although the intention is made very clear at the time. It is quite a simple matter.