Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members Question No. 7 to Minister  
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members Question No. 7 to Minister  
[Volume:620;Page:15384] 
3.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Chairperson of the Commerce Committee 
: Why has the “briefing into TVNZ’s accountability to Parliament” scheduled to occur on 1 July 2004 then provisionally planned for 5 August 2004 still not taken place and when is it to take place? 
MARK PECK (Chairperson of the Commerce Committee) 
: 
 The cancellation of the 1 July meeting was adequately explained to committee members at the time; and in respect of the second one the committee resolved to postpone that briefing. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I did not ask him whether he adequately explained to the select committee what had happened. I am asking him to explain to this House what has happened seeing as it is a committee of the House and the House appointed this committee. I ask again whether he will answer my question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thought the member did answer the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. He said that I asked him why there was a delay twice. He said the committee has been advised of that adequately. This is the House—the full House; the full Parliament—asking the member the question and we deserve an answer. There are only so many members on the committee and none of the rest of my colleagues knows what the answer is at this point in time. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member is bound by the Standing Orders to give the answer he has given because he cannot divulge those details until the issue is reported back to the House. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has there been any tabled information in respect of the delays that would now not make the matter subject to only the committee’s knowledge; and if that is the case why has the chairperson not disclosed to the House what is going on with regard to those delays—is it not his responsibility to tell us as members of this House? 
MARK PECK 
: I tell the member if he is concerned about this matter that there will be a briefing this Thursday. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked the chairperson whether any information was tabled and accepted by the committee that would take it out of the exclusive purview of the committee and make it knowledge that anybody else could ask about. When will I have an answer on that? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please read Standing Order 110. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. What we have here obviously is a complete farce of question time. Mr Peters’ primary question included: “and when is it to take place?”—the question that Mr Peck had for some hours. We had an answer to that primary question only in his answer to the supplementary question when he replied that it would be on Thursday. Why could we not expect Mr Peck to give that answer to the primary question particularly when he had it on notice? That is what is happening here time and time again. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thought that the two questions were slightly different. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was all in my primary question so why did the Clerk not rule it out instead of wasting everybody’s time? He did not rule it out so that means surely that it is an appropriate question to be asked. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes but the member addressed it and this is an abuse in itself. Members cannot litigate confidential select committee proceedings. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am coming to the member’s aid. Again we have an answer from a committee chairperson that I felt I did not understand. He told the member that there would be a briefing on Thursday. Now it may be that he means there will be a confidential briefing of the committee on Thursday but alternatively he may be saying that as chairperson of the committee he will brief us all—which of course he is perfectly entitled to do under the Standing Orders. If that is so—[ 
Interruption 
] Of course—as chairperson he can. The chairperson can put out a press release. If the member is saying to us all that he is going to make a statement on Thursday then he could make a statement today. But if he is saying that no the committee will be briefed by officials on Thursday it would have been helpful if he had made that clear in his answer. In the way he has left it he appears to be treating the House with contempt. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I want to say that members may ask these questions but until there is a report what the chairperson replies must necessarily be limited. Now the member has raised an interesting point of order but an answer was given. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think you twice referred me to Standing Order 110. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Well may I read it to you and refer you to it as well? “A member may not refer to proceedings in committee at meetings closed to the public…”. This meeting was not closed to the public it never was to be closed to the public so your Standing Order is erroneous. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member is wrong. That part of the meeting was closed to the public. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The material that elicited that meeting’s information was not closed to the public; we were all there. I have a number of colleagues who were there so how is it that all of a sudden it was in committee? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I was advised of that by the Clerk but I accept responsibility. I was advised of that and that was the reason I gave the answer I gave. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I appreciate the problem you have but Mr Peters in this particular case asked the chairperson whether papers had been tabled that were public. The chairperson has not answered that question. Now that I have learnt that Mr Peters is on this committee and knows a bit about it I take it that the obvious implication is that there are public papers and that it is therefore a matter on which the chairperson could have answered. It seems to me to be regrettable that when a chairperson is able to give information to other members—and I am not on this committee nor have I had any briefing on the matter but I am genuinely interested in the matter being raised—I fail to see why the member should then advise the Clerk’s Office that it was secret when it most certainly was not. That misleads you and makes us all look ridiculous. 
MARK PECK 
: This particular part of the business before the committee is in committee and it is not public until the briefing is held. I would advise the primary questioner to have a look at the Standing Orders because there is a new procedure there about briefings. The briefing will be in public but the setting-up of that briefing is a matter for the committee and has yet to be reported. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is perfectly correct and that is in accordance with the Standing Orders. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think a matter needs to be clarified. That committee was appointed by the House and Mr Peters just said that he was on the committee. I am on that committee. We have been meeting a lot but I have not seen him there yet so I am not sure whether he is— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. That is not very helpful. I have ruled. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The fact of the matter is that we have been waiting—and I have been to that committee a number of times; I take the place of— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please come to the point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Well you allowed him to make a statement that is— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. Come to the point of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: You allowed him to make a statement that was fallacious. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please come to the point of order or I will name the member. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I missed your point. What did you say then? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I said that I will name the member because I think he is trifling with the Chair with me. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I see. Well let me ask you this: how can it be that the Order Paper for the next meeting says that the meeting is to be in public yet this member can rise in this House and not give any information at all? Are you telling me that the new procedure—which is a procedural matter only and does not go to the core of the evidence—now overrides the evidence we are about to hear? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the committee has not had a briefing which might or might not be open to the public. The decision to have a briefing is an in-committee issue. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I apologise for this but I think it is an important point and is why we are getting ourselves into a tangle. I ask you to go back to the  
Hansard 
 record where in Mr Peters’ question he talks about the briefing into Television New Zealand’s accountability to Parliament. In the second part of his question he asked when that was to take place. I understand that the appropriate answer to that was “Thursday morning” but that was not the answer given when Mr Peters asked his primary question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will have a look at it. The member has asked me to have a listen to the tape and I will do so.