Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:630;Page:2683] 
3.  
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
 to the  
Minister of Housing 
: In what specific ways did the Chairman of Housing New Zealand Corporation act “appropriately and promptly” in respect of the allegations of accounting irregularities made by a former contractor and the associated gagging clause of that contractor? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing) 
: 
 As far as I am aware once the chairman saw the text of the gagging letter he immediately indicated that he regarded it as inappropriate and inquired into it. As far as I am aware once the chairman was fully aware of all the circumstances of the allegations he set in train processes to inquire into them. 
Phil Heatley 
: How can the Minister have confidence that the chairman acted “promptly” if he heard about the gagging clause from talkback radio some weeks before print media pressure forced him both to tell that Minister and to suggest an inquiry? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: It may come as a surprise to the member but not everybody listens to talkback radio. I have an assurance from the chairman of the board of Housing New Zealand Corporation that he first learnt of the gagging order on 7 April—the day I learnt of it from him—and the inquiry was set up 3 days later. 
Georgina Beyer 
: What matters will the inquiry conducted by the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General into allegations made against Housing New Zealand Corporation consider? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Some of the matters the Auditor-General’s inquiry will consider include the allegations made by the former contractor in an agreed statement of facts any other allegations made by the contractor that the Auditor-General considers desirable to investigate and the events leading up to the signing of the settlement agreement with the former contractor including whether the chief executive authorised the agreement and was aware in advance of its terms. 
Phil Heatley 
: Why did the chairman say publicly that he knew of the gagging clause from talkback radio several weeks before he told the Minister contrary to what the Minister is claiming in the House today? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I am unaware of that allegation. I would be delighted to see some evidence from that member. 
Phil Heatley 
: How can the Minister have confidence that the chairman acted “appropriately” if he broke the no-surprises agreement? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: As I said in my opening statement to the House in answer to the first question as far as I am aware the chairman has acted entirely appropriately throughout this sorry saga. 
Phil Heatley 
: How can the Minister have confidence that the chairman acted appropriately if the chairman went to a “please explain” meeting with him promising an internal investigation by Housing New Zealand’s usual auditors Ernst and Young but came out of the “please explain” meeting with the Minister promising an independent inquiry by the Auditor-General? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: People are entirely able to change their mind. 
Phil Heatley 
: Is the Minister very very sure the chairman did not know about the gagging clause soon after the letter was signed in December given that he knew about the allegations of accounting irregularities in September and as a good chairman presumably would have followed this up by asking the chief executive whether the matter had been resolved? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I can only repeat to the House that the chairman of the board has told me that he found out about the gagging order on 7 April the same day that I found out about it. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table a report stating that the chairman said he heard about the gagging clause on Newstalk ZB some weeks before he told the Minister. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I seek leave to table the terms of reference for the Auditor-General’s inquiry into certain allegations involving the Housing New Zealand Corporation. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Paul Swain 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I wish to clarify that I objected to the earlier seeking of leave because I thought that the member was referring to a newspaper report. If the member can clarify that it was not a newspaper report then I am happy to go along with the granting of leave. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think the moment has passed unless the member wishes to put it again. Does Mr Heatley wish to put it again? 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table a report where the chairman stated that he heard about the gagging order on Newstalk ZB a few weeks before he told the Minister. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection—[ 
Interruption 
] Sorry is it a newspaper article? 
Phil Heatley 
: It is a newspaper report. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well there is objection. That has clarified the point; at least we have that clarified.