Jackson WillieHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour): I just wanted to pick up on what the Minister of Health was just saying because transfer of undertakings of course is one of the most important areas particularly for kaimahi for workers. We have a whole history as union representatives will attest of constant problems—I'm looking at again clause 36(1)(d) of new Part 2 inserted in Schedule 1 in terms of transfer of undertakings. I want to come to this as a very important area. I worked in this area for years and we've had constant problems in terms of transfer of undertakings. As you'll see clause 36(1)(d) says all rights liabilities contracts entitlements undertakings and engagements of the Māori Health Authority become the rights liabilities contracts entitlements undertakings and engagements of Health New Zealand". Now with so much negative publicity around this what type of guarantees can our Minister give us with regards to continual recognition of conditions of employment of wages?This is not a secure area at all and I think if you follow the clauses after the transfer of undertakings you will see how complex an area this is because if you go to paragraph (f) you will read "anything done or omitted to be done or that is to be done by or in relation to the Māori Health Authority is to be treated as having been done"—whatever the hell that means. I wouldn't mind an explanation on that "or having been omitted to be done or to be done by or in relation to Health New Zealand". When you read that type of language you know it makes workers feel very very insecure. They're not sure of where they're going. They're not sure of any guarantees in terms of continual employment. I have heard the Minister say but I thought he was a little bit casual with respect in terms of "Well everything will be just carried on." We have heard that many many times—many many times. Wages have been adjusted; people have lost their jobs.We are in a very insecure environment here so I wouldn't mind some clarity from the Minister with regards to this and how the culture of the Māori Health Authority is going to be continued in terms of Health New Zealand. He talked about Moe Milne and I'm glad he's consulting with a wonderful kuia like her—one of the most revered kuia of the North no doubt about that—and I'm sure our kuia there would have told him about some of the insecurities of some of her kids her nephews her nieces.Transfer of undertaking Mr Chair—and you would know yourself—has been one of the most controversial areas in the history of work relations and unions. I was a union official for 17 18 years. Many times—many times—we had to go back in and renegotiate. So what has the Minister got in place to deal with this type of kaupapa? How is he going to safeguard workers? Have these workers been consulted? Are these workers members of unions? We have a variety of different kaimahi there who have allegiances some of them who might be in the unions; some of them who are not in the unions and so how have they been made to feel secure going forward? I think these are big questions in terms of transfer of undertakings. Also what security are they going to be given in terms of retention of culture?"