Macindoe TimHon TIM MACINDOE (National—Hamilton West): Well that was a short and interesting contribution from Jamie Strange—interesting but sadly seldom of any relevance to the actual content of this bill. I have to say that sadly this bill represents the triumph of dogma over evidence. That's the reality of what we are dealing with here. This is not a bill that is in the best interests of our education system as a whole it's not one that's in the best interests of our teachers and it's not one that is in the best interests of our learners and that surely—Chlöe Swarbrick: Are you speaking on behalf of all teachers?Hon TIM MACINDOE: I'm saying that this not a bill that is in the best interests of teachers because we have to review the history. I'd like to do that and I thank Ms Swarbrick for giving me the opportunity to do that. It is deeply interesting that there's a—[Interruption] ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Poto Williams): Order! Order! Can I just ask the member please do not—interjections to other members across the House are not permitted. Thank you.Hon TIM MACINDOE: Thank you Madam Assistant Speaker. I do appreciate that. I felt for a moment that I may have stumbled into a Labour and Green Party dispute such was the cacophony of noise around the House.I want to point out to this Government that there is a deep irony in what is happening here because this is a Government that has the most acute case of review-itis" that we have seen in many many years and yet here we have an example of a Government that is ignoring the outcome of a very thorough review. You might have suspected from the previous contributions that this is something that arose from a previous whim of the last National Government and that it wasn't based on thorough consultation or evidence. Well that is quite wrong.Let me remind the House that it was back in 2010 that a workforce advisory group report highlighted some significant problems that existed with the then structure of what I guess was known as the Teachers Council. That led to a review being established that very much focused on the concerns of that workforce advisory group and it came up with something that was much better. The previous Government then legislated for those improvements and in the intervening period those changes have been shown to be improvements. Those changes have shown to be successful. The evidence is that the system that we have at the moment works and is in the best interests of everybody involved in the education system.Now when the Minister moved the second reading of this bill a short time ago he tried to argue that the National Party's approach is anti-teachers. Well that is nonsense. It's a common catch cry that we hear from members of the Labour and Green parties but no matter how many times they say it that will not make it so. I'm a proud former teacher. I worked with some outstanding people in that profession. I know that not all teachers think the same way on political and ideological issues and yet members opposite would try to have us suggest that a predominant union view is the only one that teachers hold and is the only one that should prevail. Well I reject that utterly. We should be teaching our young people how to think critically and we will never do that if we have an attitude in education that says the union is right; all other views are inconsequential. The current Education Council is designed to assist teachers to be the very best they can be and it is working.I ask you which teacher wouldn't want to be the best teacher he or she could be? Who wouldn't want to be the most effective communicator in the classroom to get around young people and our secondary pupils and inspire nurture and encourage their talents? That's what teaching is all about. That's what makes teaching such a rewarding profession. That was what I loved about the job when I was in it a few years ago.So what can we agree on? We should be able to agree in this House that we need a system and a council that is focused on having the very best possible standards in education. We should be able to agree in this House on having a system that lifts educational achievement across the board. I'm very proud having been a member of the last National Government having been there for all nine years that that was the unrelenting focus first of the Hon Anne Tolley and latterly of the Hon Hekia Parata as they were in that role and of course in the last nine months or so the Hon Nikki Kaye. All of those Ministers—and I was very proud to be the Associate Minister of Education in the final part of that Government—were absolutely committed to lifting the standard of educational achievement.This is a Back to the Future bill which will do none of the things that I've just mentioned and the sad thing is it actually casts us only halfway through that movie; in other words back in the past. It is deeply disappointing to think that because dogma prevails in the Government at the moment they will turn their back on the evidence.Since it was implemented the current Education Council has worked incredibly well and I commend those who have been members of it. They have been adhering to their code of ethics and responsibility. They're actively involved in policy development. They have provided stable governance to the education sector and they have encouraged leadership and professional development within the education profession. Those things are all important and they are in stark contrast with the performance of the former Teachers Council.Where is the evidence of the Education Council not fulfilling their obligations to warrant the changes proposed by this bill? How will these changes improve the performance of this already well performing organisation? I do hope that members of the Government who follow will answer some of those questions because as Dr Parmar the chair of the committee mentioned there are significant costs associated with this legislative change and those unnecessary costs will have a detrimental impact on the organisation's ability to fulfil its core functions.There is not sufficient evidence to support the changes that the Government is making today. As I've mentioned those changes came about because of the very thorough review process which implemented best evidence and best practice. Those who want to go back to the way things were are determined to revert to a previous dysfunctional model. Changing the title of the Education Council to the Teaching Council and increasing its membership from nine to 13 individuals will impose unnecessary costs on taxpayers and those are costs that could be much better spent on other areas important areas of our education system—whether it's in teacher-aides meeting the needs of children with special needs and so many other things of that type.Over three years those changes were estimated to be in the region of just under $700000. We're not talking about a trivial cost. And $220000 of those costs will just be associated with rebranding. Well we've already seen the determination of the Government to change other Government departments—I see that Mrs Martin is here. She spent a lot of money earlier in the year changing the name of Oranga Tamariki. I have to say we're not seeing really significant and well-targeted expenditure from this Government. We are seeing dogma-driven things that are at great cost to the taxpayer for no tangible benefit.I do want to just acknowledge in the short time that I have available that while we don't support the bill in the National Party we do acknowledge the submission that came from the New Zealand Catholic Education Office who proposed to ensure that there is greater representation from integrated schools. I simply put that on the record because theirs was a very sincere submission and I think at this stage in a second reading debate it is right that we write that into the record.But the Minister of Education in suggesting that National doesn't support having teachers on the Education Council was flying in the face of the evidence. So let me conclude by just pointing out that that is complete nonsense. Six members of the current nine-member Education Council are current or previously practising teachers. This highlights the fact that teachers under the current system do have a significant—indeed the dominant—level of representation and input into high-level council decision-making. But the Education Council is also about bringing in the wider skills and capabilities that are absolutely essential and are typical of so many professional bodies. It's not something that is just confined to teaching. This is typical of so many professional bodies where the really important thing is to have the best skills and capabilities available and that does not come through this current Government's proposed system of going back to the way things were.The current system is working well. So I am very very disappointed to hear that the current Government is determined to put dogma before the evidence. I really urge them to think again and not to proceed with this bill."