Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 06 December 2012. Volume:686;Page:7275. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
9. 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Labour—Mt Roskill) 
 to the  
Minister of Foreign Affairs 
: Has he read the Owner’s Expectations Manual prepared by the Crown Ownership Monitoring Unit and does he require directors he recommends for appointment to government companies to also read that manual? 
Hon TONY RYALL (Minister of Health) 
on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs: No. The Minister relies on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to ensure that the appropriate checks are carried out on appointees. The ministry and the Crown Ownership Monitoring Unit advise that the manual did not apply in relation to the Pacific Forum Line since it is not a Crown company. However the ministry requires the normal steps to be taken in relation to declarations of conflicts of interest and other such requirements. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: In view of the requirement in the ownership manual that sets out best practice that “Directors must disclose any relationship and/or matters that give rise to an actual or potential conflict of interest.” when did Mr Kiely as a trustee for a shareholder in Sofrana since 2008 first disclose that relationship to his Minister or the ministry or the Pacific Forum Line board? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I understand Mr Kiely made that disclosure when it became aware to him that Sofrana was interested in purchasing the Pacific Forum Line. He immediately advised Mr McCully and he then went on to make the chair aware of a non-beneficial interest that he had as a trustee. Mr Kiely is a man with a considerable reputation impeccable credentials and a person whom many of us have had the experience of having acted with the highest integrity of any New Zealander. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: If as the Minister says he advised Mr McCully which must have been in the last couple of months why did not Mr McCully remember that fact yesterday? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I am not in a position to answer that question. What I am able to say is that I think any allegations made by that member under the cloak of parliamentary privilege are— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! A point of order has been called. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: You have often directed people asking questions to ask straightforward questions. I think my questions have been of that nature today and yesterday. I am not making any allegations; I am asking questions. Why should I—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The reason why there was a reaction is that the member got beyond an issue of order there. I think members realise that this is a very tense issue that the member has raised and it will evoke certain feelings. I will make sure members are careful in their replies but some feeling in response to implied allegations is to be expected. 
Hon Members 
: Oh! 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is to be expected. We in this House need to be careful of the reputations of people who cannot defend themselves in this House and it is something that we all need to be careful of. The member is absolutely at liberty to ask his questions and I will defend his right to do that. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Has the Minister been advised that Mr Kiely as a trustee does not owe duties to the trust on behalf of which he was holding shares in Sofrana? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I am uncertain whether the Minister has received specific advice on that matter. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Did Sofrana have any interest in purchasing shares in the Pacific Forum Line and when did it first express that interest? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I am unaware of when it first expressed that interest in a more general sense but I understand that Mr Kiely may have been approached by Sofrana some time in July. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: If Mr Kiely was approached by Sofrana in July why was it not until 10 August that he relinquished his association with Sofrana as a trustee for the shareholders? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: Mr Kiely disclosed it to the chair of the Pacific Forum Line and then took action to remove himself from that position. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Is it good practice for somebody advising the Government on a share sale to be both a trustee for the share buyer and a director for the share seller and not advise the ministry of that? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I think the member is really seeking to create something out of that that really does not exist. Quite clearly when Mr Kiely became aware that Sofrana had an interest he took action to advise the chairman of the Pacific Forum Line and then took action to remove himself from that trustee position. I think that is entirely appropriate. Mr Kiely is a highly experienced lawyer who is well aware of his obligations and has served Governments from both sides of this House. He has I am sure acted with the utmost integrity. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Does he dispute the answers given to me by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade that Mr Kiely was a key adviser on the sale of shares but had never declared any potential conflict of interest? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: He obviously did not declare any potential conflict of interest when he became a director because none existed at that time. When Mr Kiely became aware that there could be a perception of a conflict as a result of Sofrana’s interest in the Pacific Forum Line that is when he took the action that he did to advise the chairman I understand and to subsequently remove himself from that trustee relationship. That is what you would expect someone to do and Mr Kiely is a very experienced legal practitioner and someone who acts with the utmost integrity. 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Should have known better. 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I think it is not on for that member to be making— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! No. Order!