6. Question No. 6—HealthCHRIS BISHOP (National) to the Associate Minister of HealthQuestion No. 6—Health6. CHRIS BISHOP (National) to the Associate Minister of Health: Does she stand by her statement on 25 January 2022 that the Government has Increased our PCR testing capacity from a maximum of 39000 tests a day to a baseline of 58000 tests. Surge capacity is now 77600 tests which can be sustained for 7 days" and is she satisfied with the performance of COVID-19 testing during the current outbreak?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Associate Minister of Health): That statement was based on the advice and information provided at the time. As the Director-General of Health said yesterday the Ministry of Health overestimated PCR capacity and provided an explanation for the circumstances that led to this. However regardless of the baseline capacity it was always clear that PCR testing would need to be switched to rapid antigen testing as Omicron cases increases. Chris Bishop: Why didn't you do anything?SPEAKER: Order!Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: That's why they were a core part of the three-phase plan I announced on 26 January. Phase 2 provided for a transition from PCR to the increasing use of rapid antigen tests (RATs) to accommodate the growth in cases. That transition proved challenging but in the last week 7 million RATs have been sent out from the Ministry of Health to be distributed in testing centres general practices pharmacies and other pick-up points. I am satisfied that our testing system is delivering free testing to people who need it.Chris Bishop: When if ever was she advised by the Ministry of Health that the baseline figure of 58000 tests and surge capacity of 77600 tests would not be reached and why did the Government not correct those figures earlier than yesterday when Dr Bloomfield apologised?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: There was a variety of different figures raised by officials as the baseline figure but I would remind that member of my primary answer which is that the issue here about people who have had a delay in obtaining their PCR result is not caused by the baseline capacity but by the need to transition to rapid antigen tests. The director-general has initiated an investigation into the difficulties with that transition that led to the backlog in PCR tests.Chris Bishop: Point of order Mr Speaker. I think that was a very specific question about when she was advised by the ministry that the baseline figure was incorrect and that was not addressed.SPEAKER: Well I think the Minister started off by saying there was a range of dates. Was that the expression?Chris Bishop: On what date was she advised by her advisers at the Ministry of Health that the 58000 figure was wrong?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: That 58000 figure—sometimes referred to as the baseline or business as usual figure—was agreed with laboratories and that figure does not relate to the problem of pooling; which includes our pooled capacity. It includes pooled capacity and is higher than the current number without pooling which is approximately 30000 tests.Chris Bishop: Why did the Ministry of Health advise media just nine days ago that it stood by its estimate of 58000 tests per day and did she know that that figure was wrong earlier than nine days ago?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: The difference between the 58000 figure and the figure which is 30000 is the difference between a capacity with pooling which is the higher number and a capacity without pooling which is the lower number.Chris Bishop: Why did the ministry release figures nine days ago to media saying that 58000 tests could be conducted per day and is this not misleading the public as to the actual availability of PCR testing in New Zealand?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: The Director-General of Health has set out yesterday the reasons for the underestimate of the capacity which in particular—the discussion yesterday was about the unpooled capacity. The director-general has apologised for that and taken responsibility for fixing the backlog of PCR tests.Chris Bishop: Have any PCR samples aged past the point at which they lose accuracy and if so how many have been processed anyway and how many if any have been discarded?SPEAKER: Any one of the three questions.Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: The plan for addressing of the backlog is done in conjunction with the laboratory network where pathologists who are experts in these matters participate in the decision making.Chris Bishop: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. That doesn't address the question at all.SPEAKER: It didn't actually address any one of the three questions that was asked.Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: Pathologists who are experts in when the samples are at their period where they can be analysed will be making the decisions on whether or not these samples are analysed.Chris Bishop: So has she been advised as to whether any PCR samples have aged past the point at which they lose accuracy and have therefore been discarded?Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: No I have not. But the most important thing is that for the people concerned they have been advised by text message that their samples have been delayed and that they are encouraged to seek a rapid antigen test in order to get an answer for the reason that they sought a test in the first place. In addition we know that many of them have sought that option out."