Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:620;Page:15452] 
4.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Minister of Internal Affairs 
: What specific Department of Internal Affairs grants have been investigated in the last 12 months and what has been the outcome of those investigations? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Internal Affairs) 
: 
 The Department of Internal Affairs administers six separate votes for five separate Ministers. I am advised that over the last year 19 investigations were undertaken into grants made by the lottery distribution committees. Of these 10 cases were found to meet requirements two are in the hands of the police and seven are still under investigation by the Department of Internal Affairs auditors. 
Katherine Rich 
: Has he received the departmental report due last month investigating 32 Auckland groups over a suspected scam to invent community projects and defraud his taxpayer-funded Community Organisations Grants Scheme of $150000; if so what did that report state? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: No I expect that it has been sent to the Hon Rick Barker as the portfolio for the community and voluntary sector is his. 
Steve Chadwick 
: Has the Minister received any reports on the scale of lottery grants investigations? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The 19 cases being investigated comprise only 0.42 percent of the 4533 grants made by lotteries distribution committees last year. 
Katherine Rich 
: Is he aware that his department has been conducting an investigation for the last year into “a whole range of fake projects” that have received grants where according to his own officials the grant recipients “were just making up projects”; if so what has he been doing about it? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Obviously these things are being investigated by the Hon Rick Barker because they fall within his portfolio. I do not know whether the member understands how things work. 
Rodney Hide 
: Would he expect as a competent and hard-working Minister to know that his department had a report out uncovering 32 cases of fraud and the attempt to defraud the Government particularly when the Opposition knows all about it—and he just sits there with the ministerial limo the pay and the perks and says: “Oh that’s for Rick Barker to deal with.”? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: It is Rick Barker’s to deal with because he is the Minister in charge. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: A large amount of that question had hypothetical and other comments that were not necessary to the actual sense of the question. 
Katherine Rich 
: Has he read the November 2003 independent report on one of his grant schemes that raises concerns about “the lack of clear and authoritative policies and guidelines within the scheme” and “a lack of clarity in public accountability processes”; and what changes has he made to his grant schemes as a result of that report? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I have made a number of inquiries about those that fall within my portfolio—that is the Lotteries Commission and the Lottery Grants Board—and of course two have been referred to the police. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I bring this matter up now because I think it is relevant to the whole of question time. We have just got out the Schedule of Responsibilities Delegated to Associate Ministers dated August 2004. This question is set down to the Minister of Internal Affairs and was accepted by the Clerk’s Office as being an appropriate question for the Minister of Internal Affairs. Notwithstanding what Mr Cullen said before our primary questions are well looked into. The Minister’s answer to the primary question was a range of things about the Lotteries Commission; it had nothing to do with the community grants stuff that was being requested of him. For him simply to say that it is not his problem but that it is the Hon. Rick Barker who is in charge is unacceptable. 
When we look at the delegations in the schedule we see that the only two Ministers who have associate delegations under internal affairs are the Hon Trevor Mallard and the Hon Mark Burton. Where are we to go now? Is a Minister simply able to say: “Well I don’t know about that. Why don’t you ask X Minister or so and so?”. Surely we are entitled to expect that the Government will have given the House and the country true information about who is running what portfolio. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member made the point twice. He needs to make it only once. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: The question was properly accepted by the Clerk’s Office because the Minister of Internal Affairs does have responsibility for grants by that department. Another Minister has responsibility for the community grants a subgroup of this from the department. If members opposite had thought carefully before they lodged their questions and had put them down to the appropriate Minister they would have received an answer on those particular grants. The fact is that they did not look carefully at what they should have. They did not consider the delegations and that is quite sad. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: That was a very interesting lecture from Mr Mallard. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Please come to the point of order. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: The point of order is this: where is the delegation he speaks of and why is it not lying on the floor of the House so we can all act appropriately? We are being led up the garden path by a Government that does not want to answer questions. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The last sentence was irrelevant. The member raised a point of order. As far as I am concerned I will have a look at the issue of the delegations. I do not have them in front of me this moment and those on this schedule may or may not be the most recent ones. I will have a look at the matter and come back to it later. 
Katherine Rich 
: Why was the Minister happy to answer questions about internal affairs grants schemes yesterday but not today and has he just recently had an explanation of what his portfolio responsibilities are? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The reason I was happy to answer yesterday is that that member did not know what she was on about.