Newman Muriel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Newman Muriel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:619;Page:14673] 
9.  
Dr MURIEL NEWMAN (Deputy Leader—ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Did Senior Sergeant Mike Fulcher receive a police report in or about May this year from the South Asian liaison officer for the New Zealand Police with photographs and fingerprints detailing an immigration scam involving Pakistani nationals entering New Zealand through Tonga? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS (Minister of Police) 
: 
 Yes. Police have with the additional information provided today been able to identify that an allegation relating to a Tongan immigration scam was reported by a south Auckland sergeant to his immediate superior Senior Sergeant Fulcher in April this year. The two-page report outlined an allegation that came from an informant in Auckland that Pakistani nationals had been obtaining holiday visas from the Immigration Service office in Tonga in exchange for money. As the House was told yesterday the Immigration Service has advised that no such visas have been issued to Pakistani nationals from Tonga since 1999-2000 a fact that casts doubt on at least that part of the allegation. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Yesterday the Minister of Police denied that such a report existed. [ 
Interruption 
] We get this every time and you do nothing. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have warned members about interjecting. The member will please carry on. 
Rodney Hide 
: That was a former Minister of Immigration trying to have a go. If she wants to say that the Minister of Police did not  
Hansard 
 shows clearly that he did and I am happy to read it out. The Minister of Police came to the House and twice denied—and I look to members to agree—that such a report existed. We now have the Minister of Police saying oh yes there is a report. The standard expectation in the House is that as soon as a Minister realises that he or she has inadvertently misled the House he or she should correct the record. The Minister did no such thing. I ask you whether you consider that to be acceptable. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: There are a couple of points there. First of all obviously the Minister yesterday gave an answer based on the information made available to him by his officials that no such report had been found. Today with more information provided—it would be very useful if members would actually provide the information in the first case when they submit the question as opposed to playing little games in their question—it has been possible to find the report. Even then it is not a police report “detailing an immigration scam” it is an allegation made to a police officer for which no other evidence has been found. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Let me say that the member raised a point of order accurately. It should have been corrected when the Minister became aware of the inaccuracy. The fact of the matter is that the Minister may not have been wrong yesterday and he may not be wrong today. There is a discrepancy there and I say to the Minister that he should have come to the House and corrected it. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: How come a police officer can write a report detailing an immigration scam and providing names and dates yet the Minister of Immigration and the Minister of Police deny any knowledge of it; how on earth can the public have any confidence in our border security? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: Every year there are thousands of such reports written by police on various matters over a wide range of areas. If the member had chosen on at least two occasions earlier this year to give some details then an explanation could have been provided. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: Is there any evidence that such a scam if it existed was successful at gaining entry for Pakistani nationals via Tonga? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: No there is no evidence that the scam actually existed. So far all we have is an allegation reported from one south Auckland police officer to another. If the scam did exist it was apparently a failure because the Immigration Service has confirmed that there have been no visitor visas issued to Pakistani nationals by the Tongan office since 1999-2000—fraudulent or otherwise. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: What investigations are the police undertaking of New Zealand Immigration Service staff given that 29 allegations of fraud against staff were proven between 2001 and 2003 and that there are now 30 new investigations for last year and three just in the last month? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: I do not have that information with me but I will supply it to the member as soon as I can. 
Rodney Hide 
: Can the Minister confirm that this police report on form 258 identified as the source a Mr Mohammed Shaheed who was the organiser of this scam and that the real reason no evidence has been found for this immigration scam is neither the police nor the Immigration Service has undertaken any investigation of it and that we have the Minister of Police and the Minister of Immigration completely in the dark and once again it requires Opposition parties to do their job for them? 
Hon GEORGE HAWKINS 
: The person the member mentioned Mr Shaheed was an overstayer and he was removed from this country on 22 April 2004. Of course if we get the information if responsible members take their complaints where they should go rather than try to make political capital out of it this place would be a lot better off. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The Minister keeps demanding that we provide the evidence. The police have provided the report. We have pointed him in the direction of the report. What else do we have to do? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is not a point of order and the member knows it.