McClay Todd; Woods MeganHon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua): Mr Chair thank you very much and I'd like to thank the Minister in the chair Megan Woods for her comments I think except they don't make a lot of sense. She's talking about many years in the future and she's talking about a dry year this year but Minister wasn't it the case that the increase in coal importation started long before the suggestion that this was a dry year? In fact under your watch more coal was imported and used in the first quarter of this year than the last two years alone and there are shiploads of thermal coal coming from not the West Coast not near Huntly itself but from Indonesia. You've mentioned that $30 million has been set aside by the Government but I ask the Minister: how much does 2 million tonnes of coal from Indonesia cost because that's the suggestion of the amount that will be imported this year.So is there less gas being used in New Zealand or less investment being put into gas supply in New Zealand as a result of the well-meaning but disastrous policy decisions that this Government made last term? And how does she equate that or her suggestions of the expensiveness and how harmful thermal coal is for the environment when so very much is being imported? Ministers of energy many years ago that were responsible for this portfolio were very proud of the amount of coal that was dug up in New Zealand. This Minister must be proud of the amount that's been imported on ships that come all the way from Indonesia and are put on probably not rail but on trucks and driven all the way down to Huntly where they've just had to recommission one of their coal boilers that was decommissioned many years ago. In as far as climate change is concerned this Minister is a failure but when it comes to energy she's one of the best Ministers of energy the coal industry in Indonesia's ever had.Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Minister of Energy and Resources): Happy to take a call on the member's question around when it was that it was decided that coal would need to be imported to back up what was becoming increasingly apparent of the failure of gas to supply the security of supply that was required in a dry year. I'd point the member to the fact that actually weather forecasting is quite a long-range science and in fact a La Niña weather pattern has been forecast for quite a period of time certainly before the period of time the member is pointing to to when the coal imports started arriving. What people that are skilled in the science of weather understand very clearly is that a La Niña weather pattern means drier than usual conditions in our southern hydro lakes. So the fact that where we require our hydro lakes to be filled is over the summer months because of course winter the precipitation tends to fall as snow in that part of the country that in fact the La Niña weather pattern—it was entirely predictable what was going to happen here.I think one of the things that it's really interesting to see the National Party showing its stripes on and where they sit in climate debates—that agency that would never be seen as a radical environmental organisation the International Energy Agency has now put out a report actually calling on the world to end the exploration permits of oil and gas. They understand that we simply cannot do this. We have to have an end mark. I would point that member to the fact that the latest figures that we have for the gas reserves that are in New Zealand are exactly what they have been for the last 20 years—it's 10 years in that contingency planning. I would also point that member to the fact that he is somewhat mistaken in the lack of investment in our gas assets since we made the decision to end new exploration permits. In fact there has been a billion dollars' worth of investments since we made our decision in 2018.Hon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua): Well thank you very much. I just had a quick look on Google and the only person more proud of the work as Minister of Energy and Resources is the Hon Arifin Tasrif who is the Minister responsible for energy and mineral resources in Indonesia because under this Minister's watch this year there are predictions of 2 million tonnes—metric tonnes—of thermal coal being imported from Indonesia at a whopping whopping cost of US$180 million a year—US$180 million a year. So Minister it's fine for you to try and say the National Party shows its colours here because actually when it comes to energy in New Zealand and electricity that is a great indictment upon this Minister and her work as Minister that there was more coal in the first quarter of this year burnt than the last two years combined and that shiploads—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): If the member would like to link these those comments to Part 1 of the bill—Hon TODD McCLAY: Well yes I will. So in as far as Part 1's concerned—CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): —he might get it in order.Hon TODD McCLAY: —could the Minister answer this question: the Gas (Information Disclosure and Penalties) Amendment Bill will it mean more or less than $180 million worth of coal is imported from Indonesia this year? If the answer is: It has actually nothing to do with that and will have no effect on it at all." what is the single use of this bill when Kiwis are having to pay much much more and she stands here in this House and says "We are the climate change defenders." when actually it's so much worse under her watch than it ever ever has been?"