12. Question No. 12—ChildrenKAHURANGI CARTER (Green) to the Minister for ChildrenQuestion No. 12—Children12. KAHURANGI CARTER (Green) to the Minister for Children: Does she stand by her statement that Savings coming from getting money back where it hasn't been used are redirected to other front-line services"; if so how is the budget for contracted services being cut by $120 million?Hon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children): In answer to the first part of the question yes. In answer to the second part of the question the member is incorrect. The figure the member is referring to is $30 million a year over four years which is not a cut. This is the amount Oranga Tamariki has forecast it will be able to recover from providers at the end of a contract period where they have not delivered everything we have paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service and they don't get it in full I expect that money to be repaid. If this had been happening over the last six years there would have been at least $132 million that could have gone to children rather than letting some providers build up significant surpluses.Kahurangi Carter: What evidence if any does she have to support the claim that "Oranga Tamariki has been the cash cow for community service providers" and does she think that it's fair to accuse valued not-for-profit community providers at the front line of banking funding instead of caring for at-risk tamariki?Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I refer the member to an answer from a previous question today. The member would have heard about the $22 million that Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from the last financial year where services weren't delivered with more expected to come. In previous years providers have accumulated significant surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive needs to reach the children and young people it is intended for not sit idle in bank accounts.Rachel Boyack: Will she visit community organisations like Family Start in Nelson and meet with staff and clients so that she can get a proper understanding of the critical work they do to support babies children and families?Hon KAREN CHHOUR: Nobody is denying that they don't do a good job in those service areas. What we're saying is that they undelivered in the last financial year and their new contract has been adjusted from the information we received from them.Kahurangi Carter: Does she accept the recent finding by the Independent Children's Monitor that Oranga Tamariki does not have the systems in place to properly monitor their own practices and if so how can she be confident that each of the 332 front-line service providers who have had all or part of their funding cut have been evaluated fairly and accurately?Hon KAREN CHHOUR: All decisions are at Oranga Tamariki level but I instructed Oranga Tamariki to do a thorough process of checking through contracts to make sure we were getting the services that we were paying for and make sure that we were actually targeting the right areas for the care and protection of our young people. And I believe they've done so.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Could I ask the Minister whether she will thank the questioner for conceding that Oranga Tamariki does not have the systems in place to do the job properly and that's what you're setting about to fix?Hon KAREN CHHOUR: Absolutely. Over the years Oranga Tamariki has not performed as well as the public would expect. I am now setting expectations that they achieve the right goals and that they're making sure they're spending taxpayer money wisely.Kahurangi Carter: Will the $14 million cut from Family Start Nelson be redirected to other front-line services and if so which comparable service in Nelson is being funded to fill this gap?Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I believe we've already spoken about that provider previously where they did not deliver the full services that they were paid for. Their funding has been adjusted based on the information they provided to Oranga Tamariki and Oranga Tamariki will make sure that that money is not sitting in a bank account and that it is going to a provider that can actually provide a service.Kahurangi Carter: Is she concerned that the cuts to Presbyterian Support South Canterbury's funding mean that "There will no longer be any free counselling services available within South Canterbury" and if not why is she comfortable with creating these gaps in front-line service provision?Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I cannot make an answer on information I don't currently have in front of me. If that member would like information on that specific question please put it in writing. But what I would say is we are making sure that every dollar of taxpayer money that is being spent is actually going towards a service that is being provided to our young people who are in the care and protection of or the attention of Oranga Tamariki.Kahurangi Carter: How can she continue to claim that savings are being redirected to other front-line services when the Government is simply cutting the budget for contracted services by $120 million to help fund their tax cuts for landlords?SPEAKER: No the last part of the question renders it somewhat out of order. Just ask the question without the extra bit on the end.Kahurangi Carter: Thank you Mr Speaker. How can she continue to claim that the savings are being redirected to other front-line services when the Government is simply cutting the budget for contracted services by $120 million and putting it back into the overall bucket?Hon KAREN CHHOUR: I can stand here and say that because that is not what is happening. That money is not going back into the main Budget; that money is being redistributed back to front-line services.SPEAKER: That brings to an end oral questions. We'll just take a minute while members leave the House quietly and quickly without conversations on the way."