Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:663;Page:11297] 
12. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does she stand by all undertakings she has made as Minister of Education? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 I have made a number of undertakings since I became the Minister of Education. I always make these in good faith and follow them through. 
Sue Moroney 
: Why then did she state yesterday that participation in early childhood education had increased by less than 1 percent in the last 5 years when Ministry of Education figures show that 16389 more children were participating in 2009 than the 164521 children participating in 2005 which is a 10 percent increase; did she get the decimal point in the wrong place? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I do not know where the member got those figures from. I am looking at some figures in front of me that show that in 2005 54224 children attended early childhood education and the cost of that was $462 million. In 2009 52296 children attended—a drop of 1928—and that cost $1.13 million. That is three times the amount and we lost 2000-odd children. That is a difference of considerable concern to this Government. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is a serious attempt to be helpful. I think a million and a billion were mixed up in there somewhere. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am sure the Minister meant a billion. 
Sue Moroney 
: I seek leave to table a document from the Ministry of Education the annual education report of July 2009 showing a 10 percent increase in participation between 2005 and 2009. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Colin King 
: What undertakings has she made to the compulsory school sector about increasing funding for the front line? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I undertook to do my best to get more resources to the front lines of the compulsory school sector. I am happy to say that despite a very tight fiscal environment this Government has delivered on that with a 4 percent increase in the operations grant. 
Sue Moroney 
: Does she stand by her statement yesterday to the House that estimates by early childhood education providers that the costs to parents of her funding cuts could be as high as $60 per week were “pretty poor maths”? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: In fact what I said to the House was that the member’s maths was pretty poor. 
Sue Moroney 
: Can she confirm that the subsidy for a 2-year-old at a centre with 100 percent qualified staff will drop by $1.51 per hour and can she calculate the approximate cost of this funding cut for one child who accesses 40 hours of that early childhood education service; how are the Minister’s numeracy standards today? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: As I explained yesterday this Government is in the position of having to fund three times the amount for early childhood education for very little increase in participation. We have set a target of 80 percent qualified teachers and we have removed the extra incentives to pay for more than 80 percent qualified teachers. That is a change to the subsidy to early childhood services. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Again that was a pretty direct question. I think that although there was a little bit around it it asked the Minister to multiply $1.51 by 40. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I accept the member’s point that the question started out as a very blunt question but at the end of it a gratuitous comment was added about how the Minister’s maths is today. If members want the Speaker to help them get an answer to a question they must cut out gratuitous remarks. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Does the Minister stand by her commitment not to introduce bulk funding? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Yes. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Is the ability to reduce the number of staff in schools below that of the staffing schedule as outlined in her Budget papers a feature of bulk funding? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: No. I presume that the member is referring to the flexibility that we are trying to build into school funding and the ability for schools to get all the resources that they are entitled to by allowing them at the end of the year to convert into cash any staffing entitlement that they have not used up during the year. Schools have reacted with great delight to the ability to do that. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Is the ability for schools to take cash instead of replacing buildings as she announced in her Budget papers a feature of bulk funding? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Not in my book no. Again it is to try to give schools the flexibility to use their funds in the way that they see fit. This Government trusts schools and boards of trustees to make good decisions for their children. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: What features of bulk funding are now not part of the school funding system? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I have no responsibility for the Labour Party’s policies. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was what features of bulk funding are now not part of the school funding system. The fact— 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: Speaking to the point of order. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will hear the Minister. [ 
Interruption 
] I apologise to the Minister. A point of order is being heard. 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: The member started on this track of questioning by asking me to confirm that I had ruled out bulk funding. Therefore it is not part of my policy or this Government’s policy so it must be part of Labour’s policy if its members continue to ask questions on it. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No we will not get into that. [ 
Interruption 
] There will be silence. I think the Minister’s explanation is not unreasonable. Since she did tell the House that bulk funding was not part of her Government’s policy she cannot really tell the House what features of her current policy are not part of bulk funding. She has no view of a bulk-funding policy. Although I accept the answer was a little unusual I do not think it was totally outside the bounds of the Standing Orders. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Does she understand the features of bulk funding; if so what features of bulk funding are now not part of the school funding system? 
Hon ANNE TOLLEY 
: I repeat that this Government has no policy on bulk funding. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That was not the question. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The point of question time is to question Ministers about Government policy so asking a Minister to speculate about a policy the Government does not have is completely unreasonable. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will hear the Hon Trevor Mallard because it is an interesting point that has been raised. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I think all I was doing was asking the Minister to differentiate between the Government’s policy and bulk funding and going back a step it was a question of whether she understood the features that were the differences. If she does then it is not a hard question to answer. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: The Minister answers to the House for her policy not for policies that have been rejected by New Zealanders. The Minister has made it very clear that it is not one of her policies so what on earth would she be comparing it with if not the Labour Party policy? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no; we have gone far enough. It is an interesting issue that has been raised actually. That is why I let the points of order go on. As the Leader of the House pointed out question time is about holding the Government to account over the Government’s policies. If the Minister had introduced bulk funding in one of her answers the member would have been absolutely at liberty to question her about that what she understands by it etc. But if I recollect correctly the flow of questions—I stand to be corrected here—I believe that it was one of the questioners who introduced the issue of bulk funding. The Minister has denied that the Government has any involvement with that policy. Therefore asking her whether she understands that policy is not actually strictly relevant to holding the executive to account. I have to agree with the honourable Leader of the House on this occasion that it is not reasonable for me to ask the Minister to answer that question any further. If the Minister had introduced the notion of bulk funding in her answer there would be no problem but given the way that it was introduced I believe that I cannot ask the Minister to answer that any further. [ 
Interruption 
] I ask the visitor in the gallery to desist immediately or he will be removed. I apologise to the House for this intrusion on the business of the House.