Brownlee Gerry: Veterinarians Bill — Second Reading In Committee Third Reading 
Brownlee Gerry: Veterinarians Bill — Second Reading In Committee Third Reading 
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GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 This part deals with the issues of quality and competence from veterinarians. It is the bit of the bill that makes sure that those who are practising as veterinarians have the skills necessary and it goes a bit further. In some cases it may provide for the limited registration of people so they can work with animals either by species or by the particular conditions that those animals present. 
But I think it is very interesting that on a day when the Government has decided to proceed with caution on the issue of xenotransplantation there appears to be no capacity in this bill to ensure that a veterinarian working with animals who are part of a xenotransplanatation programme must care for those animals appropriately. 
Eric Roy 
: What’s that all about? 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Well this is about the science of taking genetic material from an animal and perhaps transplanting that material into the body of a human or perhaps even taking— 
Katherine Rich 
: What! 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Well that is basically how it works. The member might be a little bit concerned about that but the Government has decided today to proceed with that science. 
I know that there will be a lot of diabetics around who want that to progress. We do not have too much of a problem with that. Members will have seen this morning’s  
Dominion Post 
. It featured a cartoon of the mouse with a human ear growing off its back. The deal there is that various molecules are transplanted into the mouse the ear is grown removed from the back of the mouse and transplanted on to the human in the case of accidents. It is an interesting field of science. It is one that we simply cannot ignore because it will become more and more common. 
Hon Member 
: What’s that got to do with this bill? 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Well let me just open the minds of members a little bit. Let me invite members to think outside the square and just consider that a veterinarian is basically an animal doctor. Do we not want those animals who may eventually have some of their tissue transferred into humans to be as well treated as possible? Do not those veterinarians have to have a far greater understanding of the medicine of the human body as well? It does not appear to me that there is anywhere in this part—this is the part that states how people become qualified to be veterinarians—any provision for that particular field of expertise to develop with recognition from the Veterinary Council of New Zealand. 
I would like the Minister to indicate to the Committee whether that has been considered. When they were taking the report from that excellent Minister Mr David Benson-Pope recommending the cautious proceeding with xenotransplantation technology did they get any sort of report from him about the particular husbandry that may need to go around animals that are part of that programme? It is not a simple issue. It is not a funny issue. It is a very serious one because one would not want to have—as the Green Party has pointed out—some form of viral transmission through the fact that the various animals that are going to provide opportunities for people to have a better quality of life have not had the best of care or the best of understanding from those who are looking after them during the process of developing the tissue of any type that is to be transplanted. So it is a serious issue and one not surprisingly that has not been considered—but there must have been a Cabinet paper at least or a line on a report somewhere that mentioned the particular issue. 
At the same time I am interested in clause 13 which deals with the scopes of limited registration. I am a little bit confused about this. Would for example someone dealing with the very very specific science of xenotransplantation end up with a limited registration? Would we for example say that the person does not have to know a great deal about the husbandry of horses or any other animals other than those that are of part of the xenotransplantation programme? Could that person be in fact a scientist who had a general interest in science and was qualified enough to be granted a limited practising certificate and limited registration? Speaking of limited I say to members that if they want to see people who are limited they should look across to the New Zealand First Party. Not only are they limited they are oppressed; they are a people oppressed. There are only a few of them of course and there will be even fewer of them in the future. I wonder where their leader is today. He should be here talking about this bill. 
I ask the Minister quite seriously whether this limited registration will be a way for various scientists to gain partial registration to advance the cause of xenotransplantation. I see the Minister is thumbing through some papers. I assume he has something there to— 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: Whatever I’ve got is more sensible than this speech. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: The Minister says it is not sensible. I am asking the Minister what the Government would do if one of the programmes for xenotransplantation saw the transport of a virus from an animal to a human. That is exactly what we are worried about when it comes to bird flu. The Minister sits there laughing and saying this is not a serious issue. It is an issue that is bothering households up and down this country as we speak. It is an issue that is bothering nations all around the world as we speak. But Mr Anderton says that it makes no sense and is not even worth talking about. 
What we have here is a bill determining who may work with animals. We have another part of the Government saying that we may now get into xenotransplantation—cautiously but none the less it is going to happen. We saw the example on the news this morning of tissue being taken from pigs to be placed into humans. If that tissue has a virus attached to it that otherwise would not affect a human and therefore goes into the human body and starts another reaction in the chain—this is the Greens’ issue and I agree with them on this—what might be the consequences? There is not a single qualification in this bill to ensure that those who work with those animals have that understanding. The Veterinary Council is allowed to give limited registration but what does that mean in this context? The council is allowed to register veterinarians but how does that work in this context? 
I think that the Minister who is sitting there saying we are talking a load of rubbish is a bit like the ostrich putting his head in the sand or like the fellow in the early part of the 19th century who said that all scientific knowledge in the world had been discovered. This issue is going to go on. It is going to keep bothering people and bills like this should not ignore it. I would like to see where this enlightened Government took its advice from. Clearly there will be a Cabinet paper probably somewhere on Mr Benson-Pope’s desk that indicates there is a link between these two. 
Hon Bill English 
: He will leak it. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: My colleague Bill English says that there is every possibility that we will read about it in a selected Sunday newspaper as Mr Benson-Pope leaks it to them in order that the right slant might be put upon xenotechnology vis-à-vis the veterinarians’ story. I would like the Minister to indicate whether that has been considered and perhaps indicate whether the Government does see the issue of viral transportation from one species to another as being a serious risk not only for New Zealand but for all countries. 
There are of course some people who would benefit enormously from a bit of xenotransplantation. If it were possible Winston Peters would I think be slicing genes out of poodles and shoving them into his members just as quickly as he possibly could.