1. Economic Programme—Debt Foreign Affairs Spending Productivity Taxes and TradeHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of FinanceORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSEconomic Programme—Debt Foreign Affairs Spending Productivity Taxes and Trade1. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National) to the Minister of Finance: Why will he borrow more money and increase taxes and levies?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): The acting Leader of the Opposition is wrong. Using the measure preferred by the previous Government for debt we will reduce net core Crown debt to 20 percent of GDP within five years of taking office. The taxes and levies he is presumably referring to include one that the Government he was a part of increased six times by a total of 40 percent. However for the benefit of the member the Government will need to spend more in this Budget because we have inherited enormous challenges after nine years of under-investment and neglect. Let me spell it out for him: the Department of Conservation has had staff cuts and has not been sufficiently resourced to effectively protect at-risk species. In education we have aged buildings and funding shortfalls to cater for school roll growth. Early childhood education centres have seen their funding decline year after year in real terms. In health 90 percent of DHB assets are in poor condition and our medical staff are stretched and stressed. And the biggest scandal of all: the number of children living in poverty has not declined with children living in cars and garages doing their homework by torchlight. In the middle of a housing crisis that member's Government didn't even bother to have a housing Minister. In the justice sector we have leaky courtrooms that need replacing. Eight years into the rebuilding of Christchurch we're uncovering added rebuild costs as a result of that member's Government penny-pinching across the board. I could go on and on but I welcome more patsy questions from the member.Hon Paul Goldsmith: Is he saying that New Zealand is currently falling apart? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: New Zealand is a wonderful country but it's one whose public services have been underfunded for nine years. That now stops. Hon Paul Goldsmith: How does he justify to Kiwis who face difficult spending decisions week in week out that he needs to take more money out of their pockets and borrow more for future generations to pay when the economy is generating very large surpluses? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I utterly reject the premise of that question. What this Government did was reverse tax cuts that had not come into force and redirect that money to a Families Package that when it's fully rolled out will improve the incomes of 384000 families by an average of $75 per week. What I think New Zealanders think is that it's time after nine years of neglect to do something about rebuilding the social foundations of our country. Hon Paul Goldsmith: If as he says there is such a need for spending why did he think that this was the moment to massively increase spending on diplomats and foreign aid?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What we have done in this Budget is rebuild the capacity of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade—undermined by the Government he was part of—so that we actually have people out there representing us and negotiating trade deals and we're going to play our part in the Pacific region to make sure that the neighbourhood that we are part of is secure and develops well. I actually think New Zealanders will be quite pleased by that. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Minister is the Government in fact borrowing—as the questioner asked—more money when the previous Government set an all-comers' record of borrowing taking Government debt from $10 billion to over $78 billion? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well it's a very good question because the previous Government did inherit very low levels of debt. That increased by tens of billions of dollars. Using the measure that the Government prefers—that the previous Government prefers and this Government prefers—in terms of net core Crown debt as a percentage of GDP we will reduce that over five years. But it will take a little bit longer than the previous Government took because we actually want to build some houses and improve some hospitals. Hon Paul Goldsmith: Good luck with that. Isn't it true that we've heard a lot about spending more about borrowing more and about taxing more but we haven't heard much about how New Zealand will earn more to pay for it all and does he just take that for granted? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well absolutely not and what we have heard about is the excellent idea promoted by my colleague Megan Woods for a research and development tax incentive that will actually mean that we'll start to lift our innovation and see businesses improve and move up the value chain. The member is clearly anxious here as he prepares himself for his future campaign in Epsom to up his profile. What I can say is he'll hear all about it next Thursday. Hon Paul Goldsmith: How does he reconcile his statement in the pre-Budget speech today that To transform our economy we have to work smarter and get more out of every hour worked." with his rejection earlier in the speech of the previous Government's challenge to the public sector to deliver more for each dollar invested? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: What I said in the earlier part of the speech is while it superficially might sound good to ask a Government department to do more with less what actually ended up happening under that Government was that they did less with less. Hon Paul Goldsmith: So productivity gains—Rt Hon Winston Peters: Supplementary question Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: I gave the nod over here. I'm sorry I didn't hear the member in time. Rt Hon Winston Peters: I can't imagine why. SPEAKER: Well look the—I heard that member first and I gave him the nod. I—Rt Hon Winston Peters: Well he's a loud mouth but anyway. SPEAKER: I apologise to the right honourable gentleman. I will give him the next supplementary. Hon Paul Goldsmith: So productivity gains are only something for the private sector—is that what he's saying? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Absolutely not. What we're saying is that when public services are underfunded year on year on year that means New Zealanders don't get the services that they need and deserve. That's what this Government's going to turn around. Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is it a fact that the Minister for Trade and Export Growth is going to get far more resources under this Government because if the issue of earning more was important how come it was that trade fell in the last nine years under the previous Government? Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well that's right. There was a big game talked by the previous Government on trade but the reality didn't match that. What our Minister of trade has been able to do already is conclude a Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership that will create more investment and more jobs in New Zealand—far better than what happened under the last Government. We're also looking at trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world. What this Government recognises is we actually have to invest in the people who will help that happen rather than undermine them as the previous Government did. Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I'm trying desperately to follow your up and down finger signals but at the moment I can't quite follow where you've actually got us at. So we start each day with 38. I think you gave us one and then you've taken how many off?SPEAKER: My advice is—one of us stands up. My advice is that the member's team has gained two and lost three and therefore is back to 37.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Perhaps for the next session of Parliament during the two-week recess it may be possible for Building Facilities to put some kind of digital signal up here which would mean you'd just have to click instead of fingering.SPEAKER: Well I will consider the matter and I'll further consider as I was asked by Jami-Lee Ross to name the people in the National Party who are involved in losing the questions—[Interruption] Order! That's just got them back to par—interjections from my right while I'm on my feet. But I will say to the member there is a certain amount of up and down. For example on Tuesday as a result of interventions and inappropriate behaviour on the part of the Government the National Party gained eight supplementary questions. Unfortunately because of the interventions of the deputy leader over a period of time they lost six of them. So it is a matter of net."