Key John: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Key John: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:650;Page:18593] 
1. JOHN KEY (Leader of the Opposition) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she stand by her statement in July regarding the Rt Hon Winston Peters: “I’ve made it clear all the way through this round of allegations that I accept an honourable member’s word as his bond unless I have reason to doubt it. I don’t have reason to doubt it at this point.” and how does she reconcile that with her statement last week in the House that in her meeting with Mr Owen Glenn in February she was “left with the impression that he had been asked for money [by Mr Peters] and that some time later he had been advised where to pay it.”? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 As I said last week my assumption was that both men were honourable gentlemen and there may be some innocent explanation. 
John Key 
: Why did the Prime Minister maintain that she had no reason to doubt Mr Peters’ word that there was no donation from Mr Glenn when in fact she had a very good reason to doubt his word she had the best reason in the world to doubt his word because Mr Glenn had personally told her not only that Mr Peters had asked for a donation but that he—Mr Glenn—had paid it to Mr Peters? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Because—and I repeat—I assumed that both were honourable gentlemen and there may be some innocent explanation. I can see that there has been a bit of a dust-up in the Tory party caucus this morning and its members have decided to come down here and yell their way through question time. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What is the purpose of holding a Privileges Committee hearing if the leader of a party with four members on the committee has made up his mind before he has heard any of the evidence as to who is guilty and who is not; or does he just base his decision on the word of the rich and everybody else does not matter? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Clearly in this House today a process will go on at the Privileges Committee and I think it is important that both sides are heard. 
John Key 
: Why has the Prime Minister continued to accept Mr Peters’ claim that he knew nothing of a donation from Mr Glenn until he was told of it by his lawyer on 18 July when funnily enough the Prime Minister herself told Mr Peters about it in February? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As I have told the House I have always believed that there may well be some innocent explanation for the two conflicting stories. I realise that the fact that policy is leaking out of the National Party like a tidal wave is cause for concern among its members but that is no reason for them to be a disruptive rabble at question time. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Prime Minister remember her call to me when I was in Africa in order to repeat a claim made by the  
New Zealand Herald 
 that money had been paid to New Zealand First which claim Mr Glenn before the committee has denied as well; or should we have a Privileges Committee hearing where the facts do not matter—just bias and prejudice? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As I have consistently said I believe that it is important that the processes in train are followed. It does concern me when people leap to conclusions about which side of the evidence they will come down on. 
John Key 
: What could the innocent explanation be for a large donor of the Labour Party someone who was trying to support the Labour Party saying he gave $100000 to Winston Peters and Mr Peters the man who was responsible for appointing—potentially—Mr Glenn as the consul in Monaco saying he has no memory of it and cannot remember it? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It is to be hoped that the Privileges Committee will get to the truth of the matter. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is it not a fact that as the Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs of New Zealand the Prime Minister is now aware that the only written submission on the question of a position in Monaco came from Mr Richard Worth of the National Party? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Indeed the former Minister of Foreign Affairs Hon Phil Goff informs me that he was lobbied by a National Party member to have someone that member knew appointed the consul in Monaco. 
John Key 
: Does the Prime Minister believe that it was misleading when she responded in February to the question of whether she believed that Owen Glenn had given substantial money to New Zealand First: “Well that’s a matter for New Zealand First to answer isn’t it—not a matter for me.” when just 4 days earlier Owen Glenn had told her that he had given a donation to New Zealand First? She knew all along that there was conflicting information but her modus operandi was to keep the New Zealand public in the dark for as long as she possibly could. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As the record shows I was asked to express an opinion and I declined to do so. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Can the Prime Minister confirm that if the assertion in the Leader of the Opposition’s last question is correct—that is that Mr Glenn gave a donation to New Zealand First—then clearly there was no donation to Mr Peters that required declaration? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I suggest that the Deputy Prime Minister is right. Once again Mr Key has come down to the Chamber rather ill-prepared because he is trying to put out the fires in his own caucus which not only leaks his policies but leaks his diaries and his secret meetings with Lord Ashcroft where—what a surprise—he discusses Crosby/Textor’s advice to Tory parties. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Could I ask the Prime Minister whether this business of politics requires one to be able to hold a thought beyond the next currency movement and that deals with facts; and if Mr Glenn has told the Privileges Committee that he now says he did not give any money to New Zealand First why cannot the Leader of the Opposition accept that and why cannot his members on that committee who are meant to be impartial neutral and unbiased not accept it? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It is certainly my view that the Leader of the Opposition has put his party’s members on the Privileges Committee in a very difficult position but then of course flip-flops are no stranger to Mr Key who yesterday had the Families Commission gone by lunchtime whereas today he is just going to rebalance it. 
John Key 
: Does the Prime Minister recall that a few moments ago when she was asked whether New Zealand First had received a donation from Owen Glenn she said she had declined to give an answer when in fact that is not correct; what the Prime Minister decided to do was to keep the New Zealand public in the dark keep this matter secret from them and hopefully keep it hidden before the election? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Not at all. I was asked whether I believed that New Zealand First had had a donation and I declined to express an opinion on the matter. If anyone is keeping this country in the dark it is Mr Key on how he contrives to have Lord Ashcroft pay for his polling and his spin doctoring without having it appear in the National Party’s accounts. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: It is impossible to hear. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Prime Minister even though she is not a member of the Privileges Committee aware of the fact that the committee has received evidence from Mr Glenn himself that first he did not give money to New Zealand First—[ 
Interruption 
] I know that these facts hurt but we are going to choke some people with facts soon. To get back to my point—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: We will have the question in silence so that everyone can hear it. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: That is all I want and the public as well. Is the Prime Minister though not a member of the Privileges Committee aware that it has received evidence from Mr Glenn himself that first he gave no money to New Zealand First and second he gave no money to Winston Peters which were the allegations made all the way through until this hearing? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It is my understanding that those were the allegations that were made and when they were put to Mr Peters he denied them. 
John Key 
: Why did the Prime Minister not tell the public that Owen Glenn had told her he had given a donation to New Zealand First—why did she keep it secret? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I am not in the habit of rushing out and announcing that I have had a private conversation with A and a private conversation with B. As far as I am concerned those statements having been made to me I checked them out and I assumed that there might be some innocent explanation. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: In the Prime Minister’s experience and in that of her senior colleagues and other senior members of this House has she ever seen a situation where members have gone to the Privileges Committee with their minds totally made up for them by their leader and where those members have gone public over and over again during the time of the hearing which is a contempt of that committee; and how could one expect anything other than a kangaroo court from such biased members? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As I said in response to an earlier question it has concerned me that the Leader of the Opposition has placed his members on the committee in a very difficult position. I think it is important that the processes of this House are dealt with with integrity. 
John Key 
: Why did the Prime Minister not tell the New Zealand public that she had had conflicting sides of the story offered to her by Mr Glenn and Mr Peters when she would have known that it was a serious issue—so serious that when Mr Glenn told her she rang Mr Peters in South Africa—because she would have known that if a Minister in her Government the Minister of Foreign Affairs had accepted a personal $100000 donation at a time when he was potentially appointing that person to a post in Monaco it was a very serious matter; or is the reason the blindingly obvious one that she did not want to drag her Government down so she lowered her standards? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: If the member cares to look back past his transcript of this question time he will find that he has contradicted himself so often that he too will be embarrassed by that. But the fact is there was a conflict of evidence. Both men I believed were genuine in their belief and I hope the Privileges Committee will get to the bottom of it. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Is the Prime Minister in the light of these references to conflicting evidence aware of any reports of a senior politician when asked whether any member of the National Party had met Lord Ashcroft saying “They might have.” repeating that answer and then when asked whether he had met him saying “Oh yes I did.”? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: Of course those deliberately misleading answers were given by John Key because he did not want to tell the truth that Lord Ashcroft a major funder of the British Tory party and a major funder of John Howard’s Liberal Party who was undoubtedly looking for a way to fund the National Party without the money coming near New Zealand had visited Mr Key secretly at his Parnell residence. The first time Mr Key was asked about that his instinct was to try to throw the reporter off the scent. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Is the Prime Minister aware of any case of a senior politician claiming not to have met the Exclusive Brethren only for him to be exposed by television footage and photographs of a meeting occurring; and what is it about the star witness’s evidence today that has the National Party wanting to decide before it hears him not after? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: It is perfectly clear that Mr Key met the Exclusive Brethren on several occasions before the last election in his capacity as chief money-collector and donations-collector for the National Party. I come to the second part of the question: it does concern me that the National Party made up its mind on this issue before it heard both sides of the story. 
John Key 
: Is the— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: What about the email about the $1 million John? 
John Key 
: The member will get his chance in a few months’ time. Is the Prime Minister— 
Hon Member 
: You won’t last. 
John Key 
: —oh we will see—aware that Dr Michael Cullen and Trevor Mallard have been going to social events and actually talking to journalists as well and have been telling them that Owen Glenn is non compos mentis and casting aspersions on his character and his memory? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: No I am not aware of such things but I am certainly aware that Mr Key could remember not opening an email he could not remember receiving from the Exclusive Brethren. 
John Key 
: Does the Prime Minister agree with Mr Mallard’s and Dr Cullen’s description of Owen Glenn and is that the way she thinks they should be characterising Labour’s big donor? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: That member makes so many wild statements that I would not take as evidence the fact that he asserted that anybody had said any such thing. 
John Key 
: Would the Prime Minister be surprised then to know that I have a text message from one of the journalists in question saying that Trevor Mallard was saying exactly those things at a function? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: We are well aware of the member’s furtive text messaging between this Chamber and the press gallery. Perhaps he would like to disclose the recipient.