Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Hide Rodney: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:668;Page:15082] 
9. 
Hon RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
 to the  
Attorney-General 
: Is it Government policy through the proposed Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill to enable the Minister responsible to recognise customary marine title by agreement with an applicant group; if so which parts if any of New Zealand’s foreshore and seabed could not be applied for under the proposed Act? 
Hon MAURICE WILLIAMSON (Minister for Building and Construction)  
on behalf of the  
Attorney-General 
: 
 Yes the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill provides for customary title to be recognised either by a recognition order of the High Court or by agreement with the Crown after the agreement is given effect by an Order in Council. In respect of the second element of the member’s question any part of the marine and coastal area that was part of a private title could not be subject to an application. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: Can the Minister tell the House of any precedent either within New Zealand or in any other Westminster jurisdiction that would enable a Minister of the Crown to transfer valuable title to private groups without involving the courts Parliament or indeed public scrutiny? 
Hon MAURICE WILLIAMSON 
: I doubt whether we could find a precedent anywhere else in the world as there are Treaty obligations under the Treaty of Waitangi and New Zealand is the only country to which the Treaty applies. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: Does the Minister accept that when we have Treaty settlements that shift property and titles to iwi groups those settlements are brought before the House and select committees for public scrutiny and ratification by Parliament yet when it comes to the foreshore and seabed a Minister by private treaty in his or her office can sign the deal with no public scrutiny and no oversight by Parliament? 
Hon MAURICE WILLIAMSON 
: Yes but the bill does not restrict the rights of groups to seek customary marine title in the common marine and coastal area. It does however have very strict conditions. In order to successfully obtain recognition of customary marine title the applicant group must prove that it has had exclusive use and occupation of that area since 1840 without substantial interruption and that the area has been held in accordance with tikanga. That will obviously rule out many parts of marine and coastal areas. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is very interesting to hear about the thresholds and no doubt there will be more questions on that— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: What is the member’s point of order? 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: He did not address the question of the difference between Treaty settlements which are brought to Parliament for scrutiny and this particular case where those procedures are not applying. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member can repeat his question because I do accept the point he makes. That was a very particular question. I invite him to repeat it. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: I will not get it exactly accurate but I will do my best. Does the Minister accept that when it comes to Treaty settlements where valuable title is transferred across to iwi or other groups they are brought to Parliament for public scrutiny and indeed to select committee for public input and the deal has to be ratified by Parliament; but in this proposed bill when it comes to our valuable foreshore and seabed the deal can be done in the Minister’s office without public scrutiny with no oversight by Parliament; why would the Minister not accept that there is a proper role for Parliament and the public? 
Hon MAURICE WILLIAMSON 
: When the member asked that question the last time I replied as my very first word “Yes” because the question asked whether I accepted that there is a difference between the regime for Treaty settlements and the regime for this. My answer was absolutely specific: yes I do accept that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister has definitely answered the question.