Hughes Darren: New Zealand Trade and Enterprise Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
Hughes Darren: New Zealand Trade and Enterprise Bill — Instruction to CommitteeCWH In Committee 
[Volume:609;Page:6300] 
DARREN HUGHES (NZ Labour—Otaki) 
: I move  
That the question be now put 
. 
A party vote was called for on the question that the question be now put. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Waru kaore whakae. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: Would the member care to translate? 
Hon Dover Samuels 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Would the Chairperson like me to interpret what the honourable member said in terms of the vote? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: If that is acceptable to the Committee. 
Hon Dover Samuels 
: Eight opposed. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Is it acceptable in this Chamber to have a member of the Government doing an interpretation for an Opposition party? 
Rodney Hide 
: To vote for them. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Yes to vote for them. The basic democratic right is to cast a vote in the Chamber. Our Standing Orders provide that it can be in either of the two languages recognised in this Chamber and to have a Government member effectively casting the vote for an Opposition party is totally offensive and totally against democratic traditions. I ask that we wait for the interpreter because I cannot be sure that the member over there got it right. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I thank the member for that. On a simple interpretation the Committee in the past—and the House—has accepted interpretations from other members. In fact the Clerk tells me he has an understanding of the Maori language too. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I would be happy if the Clerk were to do the interpretation. I would be very happy to accept that so that we could make progress. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. We now have ourselves in a conundrum. The taxpayers pay for a translation. This is an opportunity to speak in Maori—we in the ACT party are trying to improve in that area—and the translation is not to be done by another member. It can be done by a member himself or herself or by the translator. It seems to me not possible to be able to have it done by the Clerk. If the vote is to be taken it has to be read into the microphone as a proper translation. 
I know the Hon Dover Samuels was trying to help but can you imagine Mr Chairperson the mess we would get into if one party started to vote for another party. I do not think that is acceptable from the Government just as I do not think the Hon Dover Samuels would allow me to interpret his speeches or how he votes as good as my te reo is. We have a translator for that purpose and I think the proper procedure as set out in Speakers’ rulings is for the translator to provide the translation. 
David Benson-Pope 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. You will be aware as are all members of the House of the clear Speaker’s ruling in terms of the ability of a member on invitation to translate. You invited the Hon Dover Samuels to do so. He did so. It was in response to your request. I note that since the ACT party chose to cast its vote in Maori the translator has reappeared in the Chamber. I would be very happy if you were to invite him to confirm the vote as translated at your request by my colleague Mr Samuels. I must say that the suggestion that any member of this party would place himself or herself in a breach of privilege situation by misleading the Committee is clearly unacceptable and also a waste of the Committee’s time. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I ask you to ask for the Speaker’s ruling that Mr David Benson-Pope is referring to that enables a member of the Government to translate a vote for an Opposition party. I am not aware of that ruling. 
David Benson-Pope 
: The Chairperson has the info. 
Rodney Hide 
: He might have it. What is it? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: The ruling was made on 8 October last year. 
Rodney Hide 
: But doesn’t it require the member’s agreement? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: In any case we will progress from there. I thank those members who have contributed but it was entirely up to me. I did seek for a member to interpret or to assist the Committee and the Hon Dover Samuels was willing to do that. But I will move on from there. I accept his interpretation his right to do it and my right to accept it but given that members have raised those issues I am going to ask the ACT party to repeat its vote and the interpreter will interpret.