Robertson GrantHon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): I rise to take a call in this debate to clarify two or three main points. The first of those is that the process for deciding upon projects within the Provincial Growth Fund over the $1 million mark involves a group of Ministers assessing those projects and then making final decisions on them. In the case of this particular project that is the subject of today's urgent debate on the Manea Footprints of Kupe it is quite clear that the Hon Shane Jones had no decision-making role—Hon Paul Goldsmith: Rubbish.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: That is the critical element. Mr Goldsmith says Rubbish." With respect Mr Goldsmith the Ministers who made the decision know the answer to that question. Minister Jones was not a decision maker on that project. His role in the decision making was taken by the Hon Kelvin Davis.The second clear point that I want to make is that the Cabinet Office give advice to Ministers on the question of conflicts of interest. Just declaring a conflict of interest doesn't mean that there is a single blanket response to how to manage that conflict of interest. Conflicts of interest can be managed in a number of different ways. He went along with the advice that he was given. So the management of a conflict of interest does not require a specific and particular outcome. In this case Mr Jones acknowledged that conflict of interest it was known to Ministers who were making the decision and he did not take the decision himself.The third point relates to the role that I have in this particular set of circumstances—which is the role I take I might add in most of the discussions about the Provincial Growth Fund—which is to ensure that issues like governance and the overall commercial arrangements that surround a project are ones that we can be satisfied with. The issue that I raised was around for example milestones for the project—who would be managing; who would be looking after those milestones? As has been recorded Minister Jones provided information about the role of Far North Holdings Ltd—or the Far North District Council of which Far North Holdings Ltd is a company related to that—Hon Gerry Brownlee: Oh it gets worse.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: It doesn't get worse Gerry. This is the actual thing that's in the media. So Mr Jones provided information about the fact that they were involved in the governance side. That was not information about the proposal or the project; it was about an issue around the governance of the project. That information was received by Ministers and then I made the decision that I would be comfortable to move forward with supporting the project.Hon Gerry Brownlee: So the information was helpful? The member was influenced.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I believe it is disorderly to accuse a member of being under outside influence when making a decision.SPEAKER: I confess to being rapt in the comments that the Minister was making and didn't take notice of the interjection. I don't think it's a problem of being under the influence of someone. The suggestion that someone's under the direction of someone—if that accusation was made it will be withdrawn and apologised for; otherwise we'll continue.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: So provided with that information I was able to support the project ensuring that there were accurate milestones and the proper organisation and governance around it.This is the way that a conflict of interest can be managed within all of the work that Ministers do. I know and you made the point Mr Speaker earlier today that we are on the fifth anniversary of another occasion on which issues of conflict of interest came up. Now I'm not going to go deeply into that—SPEAKER: No.Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: —because I'm sure you won't allow me to do it but given that you introduced that material when you were announcing that there are obviously different ways of managing conflicts of interest. For example if one were in a situation where there was direct commercial advantage likely to flow to a person or a close member of their family the management of that kind of conflict of interest would be quite different from the management of a conflict of interest where a person simply knew people involved in a project and those people wanted that person to continue their involvement but it didn't happen. That is a quite different matter entirely from a conflict of interest that involves potential commercial gain for a person. As such those two conflicts will be managed in different ways. This conflict here was managed by the Minister concerned making those involved in the decision making aware of that and then not participating in the decision making. That is an appropriate course of action to manage a conflict of interest.It is very important to note that Minister Jones had no personal gain from this project—none whatsoever—and to hear Paul Goldsmith in the House assert today that somehow or other Minister Jones cannot be involved in making decisions about an entire region of New Zealand reflects exactly the perspective you would expect from a regional economic development spokesperson coming from the Epsom electorate and not understanding that in New Zealand we have regions that for years were ignored by the previous Government. On this side of the House we have made a commitment to the people of Northland the people of Tai Rāwhiti the people of Bay of Plenty the people of Manawatū-Whanganui and the people of the West Coast of the South Island that their regions are ones we are prioritising because they are regions that actually deserve a fair go. They're regions that once and for all the Government is actually going to be able to support so projects like this one are actually part of a Government taking responsibility for widespread regional development in New Zealand.We know why the National Party want to put up urgent debate requests like this one: because they don't want to admit or focus on the fact that right around New Zealand people are seeing finally a Government that is investing in the regions that is actually seeing practical projects being started not another one of Steven Joyce's glossy booklets or strategies but practical projects on the ground. That's what the Provincial Growth Fund is about and that is why a project like this is appropriate. This is a situation where a Minister declared a conflict of interest followed the advice of the Cabinet Office and took a particular course of action as to how to manage that conflict of interest. That is entirely appropriate."