Flavell Te Ururoa: Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:638;Page:8880] 
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
: 
Tena koe Madam Chair tenatatou katoa e hui neiiteneipo. Katahianomaua ko taringa ka rongomo te matenga o Henare Te Ua. He karere o Te Ao Maori ko ia teraikaweneiingakorero katoa o Te Ao Maorii te wai a ia. Ko ia tetahi o ngakarereikaweneiingakorero o Te Ao Maori ki wiwi ki wawaingataukuahipa moe mai e koro. 
Ko te TorangapuMaori ka hoki ki ngakorero o nehe ara ki ngakoreroikohia e ia i te wai a ia. Ko tamatou hoki ki terakorero o nehe hei tahuhukoreromotenei kaupapa. I roto ingakorero o Te Ao Maori i a matou e kimianaitetahi huarahi hei whainga kaorematoui kite itetahi paku koreromo te patu i te tamaiti. He taonga te tamaiti. Araano te korero kotahi tonu te ha ko te kaumatua me te mokopuna. He peraano hoki ko te ahuatanga ki te wahine. Ko te wahine te whare tangata. 
[An interpretation in English was given to the Committee.] 
[ 
Greetings to you Madam Chair and to all of us at this sitting tonight. The death of Henare Te Ua a broadcaster of Maoridom conveyor of all news in his time from a Maori perspective has just come to my attention. In years gone by he was one of a number of broadcasters who would broadcast stories from the Maori World to all points of the land; so rest there koro.  
The Maori Party is one that delves into historical accounts especially ones that he amassed in his time. We went back to his accounts as a platform for this debate. In the Maori historical accounts that were researched we did not find any evidence about smacking children. The child is treasured. There is also the saying that the elder and grandchild is one essence. It is the same also for the female gender. The female is the house of humankind 
.] 
I wanted to say that this is the first call that I like others have taken on this issue. In terms of trying to find a way forward I explained that the Maori Party has tried to go back to stories from days gone by in respect of setting a platform for our discussion. I explained that in all of the stories that people like Henare Te Ua broadcast over many many years we were able to find few stories if any about the ill-treatment of children in any way shape or form or similarly about the ill-treatment of our womenfolk. That provided the Maori Party with a starting point in respect of our discussion. In all songs and tribal verse there is nothing that refers in any way shape or form to abuse of children in Te Ao Maori. I pay respects to Henare Te Ua and provide that observation as an opening point for my discussion. 
I also pay tribute to Sue Bradford for bringing forward this particular amendment. I know that she has faced as other speakers have talked about—we say kupu hahani kupu whakahawea—the put-downs the denigration but she has stood strong. Ka nui te mihi ka nui te aroha ki a koe Sue. [ 
Much regard and compassion to you Sue. 
] 
We think of Sue and congratulate her on bringing the bill as far as this. 
Where did this bill come from? To cut to the chase as I understand it it came from the fact that a parent could hit a child with a horse crop and get away with it. This amendment was all about plugging that gap in the current law. Right from the start the Maori Party has always said that at the end of the day a hit is a hit and we remain committed to that particular line. We have tried to explain as other speakers have done what we have done as the Maori Party. In fact we felt so strongly about this bill that we took it on the road for 3 weeks. We have been amongst our constituencies in the South Island across on the East Coast and in the Tainui region. 
Shane Jones mentioned a poll with an 80 percent response rate that said people did not support the bill. In the time taken by us in all of those discussions we had as we went around the nation I have to say that although there were concerns—and people came into the many hui we had with a large number of concerns—I can put my hand on my chest and say with confidence that after discussion of the issues with each of those audiences the people in those hui either changed their minds or at least understood the stand the Maori Party had taken on this issue. That is not to say that there is not still a lot more discussion to take place. One of the things we can say is that there is as other speakers have said perhaps a lack of knowledge in respect of the rationale for the bill and where it comes from. I suppose that a number of parties could take the blame for that. However we hope the issue will be given a lot more air. The good thing is as other speakers have also said that at least the debate has happened and the discussion has taken place. 
In the hui we had some said: “Here we go again. The Government is coming into our homes throughout the land.” as if to say that this is the first time the State is entering homes. In fact we know that currently there are already laws about health and safety within homes to do with incest spousal rape and such issues. Those sorts of issues within our homes are already taken care of. So for those who for some reason think that this is the first time the State is entering our homes I say that I am sorry but that is not the case. 
There are also those who said that people would be taken to court for lightly hitting their children. As other speakers have explained that is the law as it sits at the moment. In one sense there is a lot of scaremongering and the record needs to be set straight. The biggest problem we found on our journey was a real lack of understanding. I suspect that a large number of people had not read the bill at all and were forming a view based on what they had heard in churches in the media on television and so on. We hope that will be taken care of. 
I support the discussion that Shane Jones talked about earlier in respect of the figure of 80 percent of people. Our records say that that is not the name of the game in terms of Te Ao Maori. The discussion needs to take place and to be far more balanced than that. The Maori Party has attempted along with Sue Bradford to take a leadership role on this issue and it has stood strong in respect of how it interprets this bill. If the motivation is about protecting our children then we need to be there. Therefore any mechanism that does that is where we want to be. 
Some have said in the discussion that Maori parents and Pasifika parents will perhaps be targeted by the police. Rodney Hide mentioned a little earlier that those who are most vulnerable may feel the brunt of the law in respect of this issue. If that is the case I really hope somebody takes a close look at how our policemen and policewomen operate. One would certainly hope they are fair under all circumstances. 
In wrapping up I say that one of the things I want to put on the agenda is that from the very start our korero has been this: ko te patu ano te patu ko te mekeano te patu kaua e patu i te tamaiti. A hit is a hit. A slap is a hit. Do not hit children. Koina te kaupapa o teneikorero. [ 
That is the basis of this statement. 
] 
In turning to Supplementary Order Paper 107 we ask what the motivation is for this particular amendment. I think that Brian Donnelly has wrapped it up in terms of the political environment in which we live. The Maori Party takes the stand that this particular Supplementary Order Paper adds nothing too much to where we want to head. In fact the word “affirmed” implies there is already something in law that takes care of this. Therefore we do not give the Supplementary Order Paper too much weight. But we also understand the political environment in which we live. One good thing as Brian Donnelly also mentioned is the fact that at least in the MMP environment we can at long last come together for the betterment of the nation in moving us forward. 
There was discussion by Rodney Hide and others about the definition of “level of force” as promoted in Mr Chester Borrows’ amendment. At the end of the day that did not wash with us. We would have voted against that amendment but we will see what happens tonight. As I said at the end of the day a hit is a hit and we will be staying with that position. Along with Mr Hide we checked on the issue of discretion and found that the police already have discretion in regard to moving on any issue of abuse. Therefore this amendment does not really wash. 
We support the very good speech made by Mr Rodney Hide this evening in regard to setting out that issue. However in the interests of moving things forward I say that if it is about moving forward then we want to be there. Similarly in relation to the issue of reviewing things in the future we will be looking at that shortly in the debate on new clause 6. We would certainly be interested in a review period in the future. Under those circumstances kia kaha tatou. [ 
let us be strong. 
] 
Tera te wa ka hui anoratatou ki te koreromoeneimomo take. Ko te tumanako ia ka mahi tahi. No doubt there will be occasions in the future when we have to come together in these circumstances. The hope is that MMP provides us all with an opportunity to work together in the best interests of the nation. Kia ora tatou.