Twyford Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Twyford Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 06 November 2012. Volume:685;Page:6271. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
11. 
PHIL TWYFORD (Labour—Te Atatu) 
 to the  
Minister of Transport 
: Did Hon Steven Joyce meet with the Snapper CEO in March 2010 and discuss Snapper’s desire to enter the Auckland public transport integrated ticketing scheme; if so why did he not include this in his answer to Oral Question No 10 on 27 June 2012? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Minister of Transport) 
: 
 I certainly acknowledge that there was a meeting and what I was advised was that a search of the previous Minister’s diary showed a 3 March meeting with Mr Lloyd Morrison. I am advised that no other name appeared in the diary. Mr Twyford clearly knows that the Snapper Chief Executive Officer Mr Szikszai accompanied Mr Morrison to that meeting because it is in the official information released from the New Zealand Transport Agency. Had I been advised of that I would have included it in my very extensive answer to the House on 27 June. 
Phil Twyford 
: How can he reconcile his statement that there was no ministerial involvement in the decision to allow Snapper to roll out its card on the Auckland buses with the letter to Steven Joyce from Snapper’s Chief Executive Officer Miki Szikszai in which Mr Szikszai said: “Thank you for taking the time to meet … last week. … I understand that you have met with Geoff Dangerfield and Brian Roche”—from the New Zealand Transport Agency—“following our meeting and that your expectations are that given Snapper’s assurances NZBus should be free to proceed on its current plan to implement Snapper equipment … in Auckland.”? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Well it is not uncommon for Ministers to meet with the chief executive of their ministry nor of the board of that agency as well. So that is quite in order. As for the so-called Snapper letter I think it needs to be put in the context of Ministers determining what policy is and in this case it was to ensure that there were open standards across the country that would accommodate all sorts of front-end cards. It is worth noting that that Snapper letter also outlines a number of other concerns that Snapper had including the expression that “In effect this creates a state-owned monopoly with the power to exclude others from the market. I am not sure if this was the intention but it most certainly is the effect.” What is behind this is an intention from Snapper to become the main contractor. It lost that contract. The New Zealand Transport Agency has it. It is important it does have it because as people forward-pay their fares there is a significant banking-type operation and the balances positive from that should accrue to the users. They do so through the New Zealand Transport Agency. 
Phil Twyford 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the letter of 17 March from the Snapper Chief Executive Miki Szikszai to Steven Joyce in which he recounts the meeting and the Minister’s expectations. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Phil Twyford 
: I also seek to table the letter of 23 March from Geoff Dangerfield of the New Zealand Transport Agency back to the chief executive of Snapper in which—this is after the meeting with the Minister—the agency communicated a new openness to Snapper’s participation in the Auckland integrated ticketing scheme. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? [ 
Interruption 
] Order! There is no objection to the document being tabled. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Phil Twyford 
: How does he explain that officials had a policy against Snapper’s system being implemented in Auckland then Snapper lobbied Steven Joyce then Mr Joyce told the New Zealand Transport Agency he wanted Snapper in the project and then within days officials announced that Snapper would be included in the integrated ticketing scheme? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Firstly it is incorrect to say that the New Zealand Transport Agency was instructed by the Minister to include Snapper. That is quite wrong. The policy in these matters is set by Ministers and the policy was that there should be open protocols available for all sorts of front-end cards. The member should not be surprised that we wanted as many people as possible to be able to offer service to public transport users. 
Phil Twyford 
: Did Steven Joyce communicate his expectation to the New Zealand Transport Agency chair Brian Roche and the New Zealand Transport Agency Chief Executive Geoff Dangerfield as explained in the letter of Snapper’s chief executive officer to the Minister that Snapper should be free to join the Auckland scheme? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Firstly there is no ministerial responsibility for the view that Mr Szikszai expresses in his letter. What is clear is that the Minister made clear to the agency the expectation that it would be an open protocol that would be available to a number of front-end cards. That is a policy decision rightly made by the Minister.