McClay ToddHon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua): We too are supporting this legislation the Crown Minerals (Decommissioning and Other Matters) Amendment Bill through first reading to select committee because we do want an opportunity for submitters to come and talk about how to improve this legislation and to get rid of any unintended consequences or perhaps intended consequences that stop the good function of business and instead don't only focus on those where there might be a problem. We've heard other speakers in the debate talk about the Tūī field and the great cost to the Crown there. So it is important that we have legislation that prevents that. It means the taxpayer doesn't unreasonably unfairly unnecessarily have to take up the cost of cleaning up after the decommissioning and cleaning up the mess that may well be environmentally left behind after the exploration of oil and gas finishes.However I notice when doing a bit of research on this that there are concerns from the sector from responsible businesses about some of these consequences. And I noticed that Energy Resources Aotearoa have said new commissioning rules for natural gas- and oilfields have good intention but require careful work to avoid unintended consequences. Well actually we want to hear from them to know what those might be to ensure that's not the case. One of the earlier speakers in the debate said that as we transition away from using carbon energy this becomes important. Well actually irrespective of that it's important to get it right. There have been very few cases where companies have not met their obligation when they have needed to decommission and if indeed this is about when a responsibility or liability is passed from one party to another party through investment or sale the responsibility should rest with the new owner of the permit not the last one.So it will be important that we look when it comes to the Government wanting guarantees or deposits or things like that that actually it is the new owners that take that responsibility on. It's a little bit like I suppose in the case that someone I don't know has a factory and they sell that factory to someone else they retain liability for an extended period of time. Now they shouldn't be able to not meet their obligations. They shouldn't be able to avoid them. But in the normal transfer of a business and the conduct of business it should be the new owners that have that responsibility not somebody that many many years before was involved but is no longer.The other thing we need to make sure is that actually this is fair and the reason for that is that this is a Government that have decided without any advice at all to stop the exploration of gas in New Zealand. This is the second week in a row that we are having a debate or a discussion on legislation brought by the Hon Megan Woods. Last week it was about the measurement of gas in companies and so on the reporting of it; this week it's around decommissioning. Last week we didn't support that legislation; this week we are. But Megan Woods the honourable Minister misses the point with this legislation. And the reason for that is that the Government have said they don't want any more exploration of gas in New Zealand.A speaker in the debate earlier from the Government said that's why this legislation is needed: it will be needed much more in the future because we won't have more exploration and the current assets will run out. But the problem we have there is that it's extremely short-sighted of the Government because this is a Government that in the first quarter of this year imported more coal than the last two years combined to generate electricity. It's a Government that will import two million tonnes—two million tonnes—of coal this year from Indonesia to generate electricity. And I don't agree with the member opposite when she said that this decommissioning legislation will be needed more in the future because the Government has made decisions that will exit New Zealand from exploration and from the production of natural gas. She's wrong but the sentiment around that is that unfortunately they've done that and therefore energy costs go up in New Zealand electricity is more expensive for consumers and gas that many parts of the world are using as a transitional energy away from heavy use of carbon or coal—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): Just come back to the bill.Hon TODD McCLAY: Well I am Madam Speaker but when people are listening and the member opposite said the reason this is needed is because we're not going to be having any oil or gas exploration again in the future that's a point that's important to address.So the point here is that as energy costs go up and as other parts of the world use gas as a transition away from more heavily used carbon energy production—i.e. coal—and move towards more sustainable this Government has given up on that and instead they're focusing on how they hold parties liable when they have to decommission. That's important; we support that but at the same time they should actually be saying we want exploration of gas so that we can transition away. In fact if we had companies here who thought it was a good business environment to be in and they were looking for gas perhaps Megan Woods wouldn't have to import two million tonnes of coal this year from Indonesia to generate energy for New Zealanders at such a great great cost.We are supporting this. It's interesting because we're hearing more noise from the Government now when they are held to account for the importation of coal that isn't good for the environment or climate change but when it came to this legislation they're taking the shortest possible calls I've seen. It suggests to me that last week when they were taking full calls they liked the importation of that coal. What they don't like is looking for gas in New Zealand and to be used as a transition. We do support this legislation but we'll be looking to make sure it's fair and that actually the responsibility for the cost goes directly to those who own the companies and it doesn't unfairly burden those who in every good faith have sold their licence to somebody else and that they're not held to account for things they aren't responsible for. Thank you.