Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumePeters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 29 January 2014. Volume:696;Page:15613. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) to theMinister of Immigration: Does he believe Immigration New Zealand has the required level of resources to uphold the immigration laws of this country?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Immigration): Yes I am satisfied that Immigration New Zealand is adequately resourced to do the job but I am interested not only in the quantum of those resources but also their smart use. One good example is of policies that have dramatically reduced the number of overstayers at the same time as reducing the cost of their removal. That to me is a smart use of resources.Rt Hon Winston Peters: How many thousands of overstayers are there in this country now and is not each one of them a breach of our immigration laws?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: The last estimate of overstayers suggests that there are 13151 overstayers presently living in New Zealand. This is the lowest number this century—down 6.3 percent from last year and 33 percent lower than the 2005 estimate of nearly 20000. I think that is a pretty good result.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Only a fool would clap 13000—Mr SPEAKER: Order!Rt Hon Winston Peters: Lighten up.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I do not need an instruction from the member to lighten up. Would the member simply stand and ask his supplementary question. Otherwise I will allow someone else to ask theirs.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I know what you are going to do. How can the department possibly have the resources when significant immigration fraud is taking place and just one illegal operative Jerry Lee claims onCampbell Live in the last 2 nights to have brought immigrants into New Zealand in circumstances that are demonstrably illegal?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: Well this is a very important case that has been on the Immigration New Zealand radar for the last 2½ months. These are complex issues that I am satisfied my staff are working through very carefully and when there are appropriate actions to take they will be taken.Brendan Horan: Can the Minister say in a specific case where two political party research officers here on work visas are summarily dismissed by that political party leader without natural justice or due process—can the Minister give an assurance that Immigration New Zealand would still act with natural justice and due process—Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. First of all there are a number of laws that are about to be breached by way of that question plus the facts are demonstrably false as I will demonstrate—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Hon Gerry Brownlee are you speaking to the point of order?Hon Gerry Brownlee: How is the House to know that the member asking the question was speaking about the Rt Hon Winston Peters?Mr SPEAKER: That is right. I am not ruling the question out of order. I would like the member to come to the conclusion of his question. It would be better if he did not have to repeat the whole question but then it is for the Minister to decide how to answer it. It is not for some other member of Parliament to then question the validity or the accuracy of the question.Brendan Horan: Can the Minister say in a case where two political party research officers here on work visas are dismissed or fired by that political party leader without natural justice or due process—can the Minister give an assurance that ImmigrationNew Zealand would still act with natural justice and due process in respect of work visas?Mr SPEAKER: The Hon Michael Woodhouse in so far as there is ministerial responsibility.Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: It would be inappropriate for me to comment on any specific cases but as a point of principle where there are matters of natural justice and fairness when serious accusations are being levelled at an individual or individuals it would behove anybody laying those accusations—laying charges perhaps—to have all of their facts right first before doing so particularly when the costs of doing so might be ejection from say a country or a caucus.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I seek leave to make a personal explanation?Mr SPEAKER: The member can certainly seek leave to make a personal explanation. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is objection. The member sought and there is objection.Rt Hon Winston Peters: It is like taking candy off a baby is it not? Can I ask the Minister as to why he is not severely embarrassed at the incompetence of his department whenCampbell Live can out illegal activity but his department cannot?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: I simply reject the suggestion that the department has been in any way other than professional and careful and diligent in a very complex investigation that involves not only one individual but a number of companies and individuals and when the facts are known they will be acted on.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Will he take a zero-tolerance policy and dismiss and prosecute any Immigration New Zealand official who is found to be involved in the corrupt practices laid out byCampbell Live this week?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: Well I think the member needs to be very careful again to get certain facts right before impugning the good character of the nearly 1400 Immigration New Zealand staff working in New Zealand and around the globe. But I will say this: Immigration New Zealand has a zero-tolerance policy for the sorts of behaviour that has gone on in the past I concede albeit that it was under the previous Labour - New Zealand First Government and I do hope it does not carry on—Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You know full well there was never a Labour - New Zealand First Government.Mr SPEAKER: That is fact. It is useful if members do not refer to a past New Zealand First - Labour Government.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Will the Minister do the right thing and resign if another immigration scam like this is uncovered under his and his officials’ noses; if not why not because it is going to happen?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: Again that calls for an opinion or a prediction about the future that I cannot make. But I will say this about honourable members: when there are things that go on—for example when someone says “No” when they really should know or mean “Yes”—then there may well be grounds for resignation. I hope the member is consistent with that.