Willis Scott; Verrall Ayesha; Costello Casey; Pugh MaureenSCOTT WILLIS (Green): Thank you Madam Chair. As it's my first opportunity to take this call I appreciate the opportunity because we don't have the benefit of the select committee process. I've been appreciating the depth of discussion and/or questioning that's come from this side of the Chamber and I've been equally frustrated by the lack of response that's come from the Minister. I would particularly like to ask the Minister in relation to clause 12 the repeal of nicotine limits. Clause 12 repeals section 57I of the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Act. That section limited the content of nicotine in tobacco products to 0.8 milligrams. As the member over here mentioned we know—the evidence is clear—that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. So what we're seeing in this change is a reduction of the limits on nicotine in cigarettes which is just beyond belief that anyone could consider doing such a thing. We know what nicotine does: it kills people.Now this is something that I think everyone in this committee knows about. I know when I was a young person way way way way back in the 1970s we had candy cigarettes which encouraged people to think about smoking. With my friends we often used to pinch cigarettes from—well my friend used to pinch cigarettes from his parents because they smoked packets a day and they didn't notice them. Of course we tried to smoke but fortunately it didn't take with me. But my best friend's mother and father both smoked. Their father died of cancer. It began on his lips and went further. That was a horrible death but what was worse was his mother who wanted to stay at home. She was looked after by their youngest daughter—also a friend of mine—and that was a really painful experience in our village because she was in a great deal of pain and she wouldn't take any medicine for it and her last days were heard by people all around the village. She died a horrible death because of cancer caused by smoking cigarettes. So we've seen what can happen—we know this stuff. This is not new to anyone. It's not new and yet here we are removing any controls. So I've got a couple of questions and I would like to come back later for some more. But I've got a couple of questions here for the Minister that I would really like an authentic and deep response to rather than a once over just fly past. What impact is the removal of nicotine limits expected to have on rates of quitting smoking? What other options did officials provide to her? And why did she choose this option? Has she received any data or evidence on the impacts that removing this nicotine limit will have on the addictiveness of cigarettes or the length of time people will spend smoking? I've got a very close relative who has smoked since he was a teenager. He's now in his mid-60s and he keeps on trying to give up and he can't. Clause 12 repeals section 57I which provides limits on nicotine for smoked tobacco products. Did she receive any specific advice or modelling about the impact of repealing this clause on the uptake of smoking? And if so what was the nature of this advice?Now I must say I am an optimist. As an optimist I frequently deal with disappointment but I do not want the Minister to disappoint me. I would like some answers please.Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour): Madam Chair thank you very much. I want to thank my colleague Scott Willis for his contribution on a very important part of the 2022 amendment that is now proposed for repeal which relates to denicotinisation of cigarettes. Denicotinisation takes that most addictive product known to man—nicotine—out of cigarettes so that people can take control of the effect that this product has on them and many many people successfully quit when cigarettes are denicotinised.The evidence presented at select committee in the hearings for the 2022 amendment on this were compelling. New Zealand is lucky to have one of the lead clinical trialists of denicotinised cigarettes at the University of Auckland so compelling presentations were made on that. Being a man of science one of the people who was most influenced by those presentations was the now health Minister Dr Shane Reti and he made a number of contributions in this House on the importance of the proposals around denicotinisation. In fact he moved amendments that the bill should remove the retail components but focus on denicotinisation because it was so impactful. Indeed there's widespread support from other members of the Government including I believe a Christchurch GP on the National backbench who expressed support for that proposal on social media.So I think understanding the Minister's advice on denicotinisation is particularly important. In particular I'd like to know what conversations she's had with Dr Reti about denicotinisation because I am aware of his comments on radio that he sees his role as not making the decisions on smoke-free but supporting the Minister—his Associate Minister—with advice. So I'm very interested to know about those conversations. What did Dr Reti say to the Minister about denicotinisation? Were any avenues for preserving denicotinisation in the Act explored between the two Ministers?You'll note that there is an amendment on the Table that brings back the denicotinisation proposals into the bill. I hope all members of the House—given the previously expressed support of the now health Minister Shane Reti for this initiative—will consider it. It would be very strange indeed if a party that supported that approach immediately before the election was now voting that approach down. That would be quite shameful and show a lack of respect for their health Minister Dr Reti. So I'm very interested to hear about what advice Dr Reti has given the Minister on these proposals including those about denicotinisation.Hon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health): I just think to quickly again reiterate—and I'm sorry to harp on—but the whole purpose of this legislation is to repeal the reduced retailers and the denicotinisation and the removal of the ban on persons born after 1 January 2009 so we're revisiting these components. I would like to comment on and reinforce that we fully understand the issues of harm and therefore we are going to continue to work on those initiatives as I've repeatedly said. The denicotinisation is a tool. As we've referenced previously those tools will be looked at as quit-smoking options which is what we are going to be looking into as the next phase after this bill is replaced. CHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh): Members the time has come for the dinner break. We will resume again at 7 p.m.Sitting suspended from 5.59 p.m. to 7 p.m.