Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:656;Page:5587] 
5.  
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Does she agree with the recent comment by the Minister of Finance in regard to private prisons: “this is not about ideology: private sector involvement will only happen where it makes sense.”? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 Yes I do. I also agree with the Hon Phil Goff who said he would support the private construction and leasing of the new prisons if the Government is concerned about capital expenditure considerations. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Is the Minister aware of data from her own department showing that New Zealand’s only privately run prison proved to be more expensive to run than its public sector equivalent? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I am aware of information from my own department that in 2004-05 the last year the Auckland Central Remand Prison was privately run the cost was $57280 per prisoner whereas the equivalent in the public sector cost $61796 per prisoner. I have given that information to the member who asked the question. He really should read his documents before he comes down to the Chamber. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Is the Minister aware that prison officers who have worked at Auckland Central Remand Prison both when it was privately run and when it was publicly managed reported that under private management incidents such as drug use and violence were much less likely to be identified or reported in order to protect the reputation of the contractor and to ensure that performance bonuses were received? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I find that statement quite extraordinary particularly when I have just received a letter from Mr Mel Smith a former Ombudsman in charge of prisons who stated: “I can say categorically that the ACRP was very well managed and certainly lost nothing in comparison with overseas examples in Australia the USA and Great Britain.” 
Sandra Goudie 
: Has the Minister received any other reports on the operation of private prisons? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Yes I have; I have seen a press release from Clayton Cosgrove on private prisons and on the four prisons built by Labour in which he claims: “Labour’s record is incredibly positive compared to National’s.” That is an astonishing claim given the cost blowout in prison building when Labour was in Government. It was $643000 a bed in Spring Hill Corrections Facility under the previous Labour Government. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: How can this Government claim that its plans to allow private management of prisons is “not about ideology” when there is evidence to clearly suggest that private prisons are neither more cost-effective nor safer for the public? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: The member should listen to the answers before he reads out his pre-prepared questions. I am happy to advise the House that in New South Wales private prisons cost 32 percent less per prisoner than public prisons and in Victoria it is 11 percent less per prisoner. Private management of prisons clearly does work. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Tena koe Mr Speaker. Kia ora tatou. Does the Minister agree with Maori Council spokesperson Maanu Paul that prisons should be privatised and that Maori should run them because State control has failed Maori; if not why not? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I have made it perfectly plain that I expect to have better representation by Maori amongst the management of prisons. Frankly we could never do any worse than we did under the 9 long years of a Labour Government.