Clark David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to MembersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeClark David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members[Sitting date: 27 June 2013. Volume:691;Page:11360. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour—Dunedin North)to theMinister for Economic Development: Why has the number of small business start-ups declined from an average of 8000 a year under the previous Government to fewer than 5500 under this Government?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Economic Development):Well first off can I welcome that member to his first economic development question—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Would the Minister—[Interruption ] Order! The Minister will please answer the question.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: This is an exciting day for him Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order!Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Sorry.Mr SPEAKER: That sort of comment is not helpful to the order of the House. The Minister will now please just answer the question.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well it is convention in this House that when a member refers to the previous Government he or she matches the data to that period. In fact if you look at the data the majority of the decline in small business start-ups actually happened in 2008 when that member’s party was still in Government and New Zealand was in a domestic recession ahead of most of the world. The other point in terms of the explanation for it is that—and it may have escaped the attention of the member—New Zealand of course along with the rest of the world went into a thing known as the global financial crisis which occurred in recent years. I am a bit surprised the member is heading down the path that Mr Parker did when he ignored the global financial crisis. So 2008 was when most of it happened and the balance of it was because of the global financial crisis.Dr David Clark: Why did his Government further increase compliance costs for small businesses by introducing an annual $45 filing fee for companies when electronic filing used to be free?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I am not aware of the exact details of that because the member did not place it in his primary question. I would have been quite happy to come down and discuss it in the House. But I think it is fair to say that this is probably not the most significant issue that businesses have faced in the last 5 years.Hon John Banks: Are the following conducive to the formation of small businesses: introducing a capital gains tax increasing public debt to fund new spending printing money nationalising the electricity sector having different rates of GST or income based on activity type resisting reform of the Resource Management Act opposing the supply of more land for housing resisting reform of labour laws and telling investors that their investments will be subject to political will if they ever get their hands on the levers?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I think the member raises some very fair points because of course none of those things would be helpful to the formation of small businesses. If the member who asked the primary question is concerned about small businesses then I would persuade his colleagues to abandon all of those policies.Dr David Clark: Does he agree—with respect Mr Speaker I have forgotten how many supplementary questions I have already asked.Mr SPEAKER: Order!Dr David Clark: Is that a legitimate thing to ask you?Mr SPEAKER: Sorry I am sorry—I am not sure what the point of order is. The member rose to ask—[Interruption ] Order! Order! I do not want to have to repeat the departure of one member again today.Hon Tau Henare: I haven’t got any numbers.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member might leave for more reasons than not having the numbers. Dr David Clark has called for a supplementary question.Dr David Clark: I was quite thrown by Mr Banks getting up. Has he been advised—[Interruption ]Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption ] Order! I have called Dr David Clark.Dr David Clark: Does he agree that charging small businesses the Financial Markets Authority fee is effectively the cross-subsidisation of large businesses by small businesses; if not why not?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: Well done. I think in terms of the matter of how much to charge individual different-sized businesses I know it has been the subject of great debate and my understanding is that large businesses are paying a very significant amount as are the medium-sized businesses. In terms of the wider issue of course it is very important to all businesses that we have good management of our financial markets. It is crucially important and to pay a small amount to actually improve the management of the financial markets is very important because we all know what happened when they were badly run. It was called the finance company collapses of the last Government.Dr David Clark: Has he been advised as to why the Minister for Small Business who popped up earlier has not led a single practical initiative designed specifically to support small businesses since he took office in 2011; if so what are the reasons?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I am sorry the member is simply incorrect. The Minister has been focused on advocating strongly for small businesses right through the period that he has been the Minister for Small Business. He is at the Cabinet economic growth and infrastructure committee every single week. He is one of the strongest attendees. He makes the case for small businesses for every initiative.Dr David Clark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was very specific and asked whether he had been advised as to why the Minister for Small Business had not led—Mr SPEAKER: Order! And the Minister rose and said he did not agree with the supposition in the question and then proceeded to answer it.Dr David Clark: Does his Government consider it appropriate that the main delegated area of ministerial responsibility delegated to Mr Banks outside small business to which he contributes nothing is as the Associate Minister of Commerce in the area of—wait for it—standards?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: We are a million miles from the start of the first question but can I say that I think the member is still criticising the Minister for Small Business. Can I give him a number of things that the Minister for Small Business has been doing. He has been advocating for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise services and grants and advocating for research and development grants for innovating firms. He has set up the Small Business Development Group that we have had. The Government has set up its Prime Minister’s Business Scholarships. We have had exemptions for small businesses under various pieces of legislation for the 90-day employment probation periods and Part 6A of the Employment Relations Act. The regional business partners are servicing and linking businesses to local and national support. We have Business Mentors New Zealand and a number of small to medium sized enterprise initiatives arising from back in 2009. These are a range of things and as I say the Minister advocates strongly for small businesses whenever an economic matter comes up.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Crediting this Minister with things that that Minister said started in 2009 cannot be a proper answer to this question. He was not even a member of Parliament at the time.Mr SPEAKER: It was an appropriate answer when you consider the tone of the question that was asked.Hon Trevor Mallard: Point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: The member will resume his seat. When you consider the political nature of the question that was asked inevitably that is going to get a political answer back again.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Even political answers have to have some concept of truthfulness about them in the House—Mr SPEAKER: Order!Hon Trevor Mallard: —and indicating that a Minister did something as a Minister when he was not a member of Parliament cannot be true.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member has been here long enough to know that if he thinks the Minister has misled the House there is an appropriate process. It is not to be done by raising a point of order.Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think you will find that the shadow Leader of the House suggested there was a lack of truthfulness in my answers. I would appreciate it if he would withdraw and apologise.Mr SPEAKER: I think on this occasion if the member wants to take it further he knows how to do it. Often in a debate in this Chamber a member will disagree with an answer that has been given and I accept that. So we are moving forward but I think we have a further point of order.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I seek leave to table a document from the Parliament Library showing a key legislative initiative where an Act of Parliament repealed 31 spent Acts which effectively—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That document is—[Interruption ] Order! The member will resume his seat. That is available at the Parliamentary Library. It is available to members.