Dyson Ruth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Dyson Ruth: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:654;Page:3856] 
8.  
Hon RUTH DYSON (Labour—Port Hills) 
 to the  
Minister of Health 
: Does he still stand by his policy to deliver better sooner and more convenient health care? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Associate Minister of Health) 
 on behalf of the  
Minister of Health 
: Yes that is the Government’s plan despite inheriting a public health system that has serious workforce shortages many services under severe pressure and was on track to financial crisis under the previous Government. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: If National’s policy has a real focus on the retention of current staff as it states— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Forgive me for interrupting the honourable member but her own colleagues were interjecting loudly while she was trying to ask her question. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: I am sorry Mr Speaker. I had not noticed. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I can assure the member that the interjecting members were sitting right beside her and I could not hear her. I would like to hear the question. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: If National’s policy has a real focus on the retention of current staff as it states why has the Minister stood by and watched the loss of the two child cancer specialists in Wellington and done absolutely nothing? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: It is very easy for that member to criticise this Government’s performance when that member’s Government did nothing over the past 9 years in the area of child oncology in Wellington. I can assure members that this Government is determined to deliver the best possible paediatric oncology service for the children of Wellington and the lower North Island. We will be taking advice from the paediatric oncology steering group as to how this will be achieved. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: If the then Minister’s actions in 2007 and 2008 in relation to child cancer services in Wellington were “unacceptable idle and lacking in heart” as he described them why is the Minister’s total inaction OK? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: The previous Minister of Health’s actions were a complete failure quite frankly. We have seen that in that a comprehensive sustainable paediatric oncology service could never be run at Wellington Hospital. As in every other area of health that mob has left a huge mess that this Government will have to clear up. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: What are some examples of how the Government is delivering “better sooner more convenient health care”? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: There are many examples of how this Government is delivering “better sooner more convenient health care”; amongst them is access to elective surgery. We will build an extra 20 theatres dedicated to elective surgery train several hundred more surgical staff and increase elective surgery discharges by 4000 per year. Unlike the previous administration this Government finds it completely unacceptable that elective surgery discharges have not matched the increase in population. I can tell members that— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not think we need more information on the previous administration. We have had enough of an answer. The Associate Minister will resume his seat. His own colleague asked him a question about what the Government had done to carry out its policy of sooner more convenient health care etc. To answer that question was fine; members did not need to hear information about the previous Government. That was not part of that question. 
Hon Sir Roger Douglas 
: What has the Minister done in the last 6 months to address health productivity which under the previous Labour Government decreased 15 percent for doctors and 11 percent for nurses but rose for orderlies and cleaning staff services that were often contracted out to the private sector? In these circumstances when will the Minister be announcing the contracting out of elective surgery to the private sector thus saving $1 billion or more? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: The member is right. We were left huge productivity challenges after 9 years of neglect of health by the previous Government. One of the key areas we are having to address is clinical leadership and once we get the clinicians engaged—they were very disengaged and morale was poor under the previous Government—and the front-line service people engaged productivity will increase and that will be a focus for this Government. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: I seek leave to table the wage increases for doctors and nurses for the last 9 years under the Labour-led Government and the impact on productivity. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought. There is a document? What is the document? 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: There will be—yes. [ 
Interruption 
] Mr Speaker I can clarify the point— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: All members will resume their seats. Points of order are meant to be heard in silence. I am a little troubled though by leave being sought to table something that does not exist. I will give the member another chance to clarify that. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: Mr Speaker the information exists— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. The member will resume her seat. There is provision to table documents but there is a dilemma if members seek to manufacture documents after seeking leave to table them. Either the document exists or it does not and I have to trust the honourable member’s integrity in respect of that. I am asking her whether the document exists as she seeks leave to table it in the House. 
Hon Ruth Dyson 
: The information exists and can be provided in a document in the time— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. That is trifling with the Standing Orders of this House. One cannot seek leave to table a document then manufacture the document after the leave was sought. Were the House to give leave I would find that absolutely improper. When leave is sought to table a document that document must exist. And it cannot just exist in one’s mind; it must exist in reality. 
Hon Maryan Street 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am on my feet and I have ruled on the matter. Let us be very clear about it: I have ruled on that matter. Members cannot seek leave to table documents that do not exist. I am absolutely clear on that. This House has got itself into enough trouble over many years because of members seeking to table stuff that did not exist. Creating it afterwards is not good enough. I trust the member. If the document exists now it can be tabled—if the House provides leave—but if the document does not exist then leave cannot be sought. 
Hon Members 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I warn members that I have ruled so I will listen only to new points of order. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It goes right to your last point. You cannot rule at all that members cannot seek leave to table something. They can and you cannot stop them. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I accept the point the honourable member is making but I do try to clarify for the benefit of the House what the document is. What has been clarified is that the document does not exist; therefore leave cannot be sought to table it—because it does not exist. And that is the end of the matter. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I warn members: do not trifle with my ruling. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I have two points of order. The first point of order is that when Opposition members have been raising points of order with you as they are entitled to do you have begun editorialising before we have even said a word about what our point of order is. I want to raise a point of order with you about the generic issue of tabling documents. You have ruled— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am listening and members are meant to come quickly to the point of order. I am listening. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: It is very hard to Mr Speaker when you jump down our throats before we have even started about whether it is a proper point of order. You have got to accept that we can raise points of order with you. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have been very tolerant today—very tolerant—and I am warning the member. I have ruled on this matter; there can be no further points of order on it. Leave cannot be sought to table something that does not exist and that is absolutely a simple matter of fact. There is no debate on it and I will not tolerate more points of order on that issue. I am alerting members: I will not tolerate more points of order on that. 
Hon Darren Hughes 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am attempting to raise a generic point of order with you about the tabling of documents and to get your advice. Where a range of information exists—published statistics published information matters of record that are available to members—but it does not exist in one published document and a member seeks leave to bring those statistics together into one piece of paper that can be tabled for the benefit of the House because they might not be publicly available in one form which is the whole point of seeking leave to table a document are you ruling that it is not possible for members to do that? I think Mr Speaker that you put us in a very difficult position and you have taken a ruling— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Now the member is starting to question my judgment. The matter is very simple. If the member wishes to create a document that is fine. Once the document has been created leave can be sought to table it. But the House cannot be expected to make judgments about things that do not exist. I have ruled on the matter and I am warning members that I will not tolerate more wasting of time on this issue. I invite the member to think about how leave can be sought to table something that does not exist. Once it exists leave can be sought to table it but if it does not exist leave cannot be sought to table it. 
Hon Maryan Street 
: I seek leave to table the collective agreements applying to the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists and the New Zealand Nurses Organisation from 2004 to 2009 which go to the question of productivity and rates paid. They are documents that exist Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House.