Dean Jacqui: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeDean Jacqui: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 29 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5478. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]JACQUI DEAN (National—Waitaki): The member who has just returned to his seat Denis O’Rourke raises a couple of issues that I thought needed to be addressed. The first is that as he rightly says the current flag is not one of the four options that will be the subject of the first referendum. He is absolutely right about that. I guess that comes down to the very issue that we are debating tonight—that is what the best process is for this New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill. And on that point turns quite a bit of the debate because there are some in the Committee who say that it should be a simple run-off yes/no and then there are others in the Committee—and the Government is of this opinion—who say “Yes we do have a yes/no vote in this referendum.” and that comes in the second question once the New Zealand public has had a chance to evaluate and to choose one of the four potential fresh flags that have been submitted by the New Zealand public.My view is that to put in the current flag would certainly muddy the waters on two counts. One of those is that it would not be a fair comparison between the three I presume new alternatives. So that is confusing in itself. And who is to say that people will recognise the New Zealand flag on that voting paper anyway? Because one of the problems with the current flag is that people get confused about it and do not recognise it. Is it the New Zealand flag? Is it the Australian flag? I think that is a valid point. If you have a look at the New Zealand First benches resplendent as they are even those members do not know which flag is the New Zealand flag. The only way that they do know which flag is the New Zealand flag is to have it written on the flags themselves which are decorating the fronts of their boxes. I think that is a point well made by my colleague Jono Naylor.I think that Labour members are pretty confused about this process overall if you do not mind my saying so and that brings me to the contribution of Jacinda Ardern. Excellent though it was it showed a very high level of confusion by Labour over just what its position on this debateis. So if I turn to Labour’s policy which it proudly went to the electorate on at the last election and that still remains on its website we have the New Zealand flag. If you will permit me this is good stuff so I am going to—The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows): As long as it applies to Part 2.JACQUI DEAN: Yes thank you. I am speaking to Part 2 of the bill and also referencing the contributions of previous speakers.Stuart Nash: What clause?JACQUI DEAN: Clause 18 in Part 2 which describes the two referenda: the first one and the second one. I am touching on that. I will just read out Labour’s policy because it is good stuff and it is worth reading. Labour believes that the time has come for a change and that it is right for the issue to be put to the public. “I would however support the ability of the RSA”—Stuart Nash: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. You have yourself said that this is a wide-ranging debate etc. but clause 18 which the member has referred to never mentions Labour Party policy in any way shape or form.The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Chester Borrows): I take the member’s point that it is fairly tenuous. I must say that this is probably about the sixth time that I have heard Labour Party policyread outin the course of this debate. I would urge the member to speak to Part 2.JACQUI DEAN: Thank you for your advice Mr Chair. I do appreciate it. I am referring generally to clause 19 “Who may vote”; clause 20 “Electoral systems for referendums”; and clause 21 but perhaps not touching on clause 22 which is around voting papers which of course is the method of the referendum. So I am speaking directly to the referendum here.I will just finish off with the Labour Party policy that is still on its website and that does bear reading again because it is still up on the website. What it seems to me and in fact what it did say to the public of New Zealand is that the Labour Party is supporting a referendum on this issue. What Labour members need to stand up and explain to the Committee is if they are—