Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 21 February 2007. Volume:637;Page:7538. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
3.  
JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: How does his proposal to embark on the “biggest road-building programme this country has seen” implement the Prime Minister’s goal of being carbon neutral and what reports if any has he received on the climate change impacts of the new road-building programme? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 I note first of all that the member misses the end of the quotation which was that it was at least since the 19th century when clearly the largest amount of New Zealand road building occurred. Completing the Auckland roading network in particular will reduce congestion. It will also improve economic efficiency which should assist in paying for the expensive programmes that will be required to move towards the goal of carbon neutrality. Land Transport New Zealand’s funding methodology does take into account the assessment of both congestion and environmental benefits. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: So is he saying that this project simply meets the objectives of economic efficiency and does not contribute to carbon neutrality; and if he is not saying that then could he answer the question of how it contributes to reducing greenhouse gas emissions? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I will try to repeat the answer. Firstly there will be a reduction of congestion of course. The most inefficient way of running a transport system is for motor vehicles to be sitting still going nowhere and pouring out emissions. They normally pour out more emissions sitting still than they do when they are actually moving so it is even worse when it is just a static situation. Secondly I am afraid—and the member is more than well aware of this having announced somewhat prematurely perhaps a billion dollars’ worth of tax credits for carbon neutrality—that programmes to achieve that long-term goal will be very expensive. That has to be paid for and improved economic efficiency which is what transport improvements do generate will be an important part of enabling that to happen. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Does the Minister dispute the international research that shows that when new roads are built any gains made by freeing up congestion are more than lost by the increased number of cars that travel on those new roads—in other words net greenhouse gas emissions increase even though emissions per car may decrease? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: That may well be true in some circumstances but of course there are a range of other measures as well. A good part of the road-building programme is also related to improving the safety of roads. The saving of lives is a major gain in economic efficiency as well as to social outcomes and that will also contribute to the future. 
Shane Jones 
: How much has Government spending on public transport increased during the member’s time as Minister of Finance? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Proportionately it is far more than the increase in spending on roading. In 1999-2000 Government funding for public transport was $45 million. Public transport funding for 2006-07 is estimated to be $437 million nearly a tenfold increase. This level of increase is unprecedented at any time in our history. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: How much longer will the Government continue to say in response to those who question its love affair with motorways that it has spent a lot more on public transport than was being spent when it came to this Parliament recognising that at that stage the Government was led by climate change deniers anyway; and when will he accept that increasing almost nothing to very little even if it is a sixfold increase will not meet the Prime Minister’s goal inside a century? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Those who wish to tread lightly upon the Earth might regard the statement that $437 million is a trivial amount as a somewhat broad approach to the problems of Government financing. We will continue to say that we are increasing the level of public transport spending faster than that of roading spending as long as it is true—and as long as I am the Minister of Finance it is likely to be true. 
Peter Brown 
: Will the Minister be categorical and give this House an assurance that this Government will not renege on its road-building programme no matter what pressure the Greens exert? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Certainly that is the intention. We look forward to working with other parties in the House to ensure that we complete the Auckland roading network. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: How can the Minister say that this new roading programme is mainly about safety as he said yesterday when he talked about shoulders on roads passing facilities and so forth when four of the five projects that he has so far announced will be funded in this way are entirely new large roads or motorways not safety upgrades of existing roads; can he also tell us how many passengers have died on trains in the last year? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am not aware of any passengers having died on trains though some may have done so through the long wait on not very long journeys. As far as I am aware the deaths were all of natural causes not of unnatural causes.