O'Connor Greg; Court SimonPart 2 Amendments to other enactmentsCHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Members we come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 9 to 12 Amendments to Land Transport (Clean Vehicle Standard) Regulations 2022. The question is that Part 2 stand part.SIMON COURT (ACT): Thank you Mr Chair. So as the Minister rightly pointed out matters relating to carbon dioxide accounts and how they must be operated are in Part 2. In Part 2 we have clause 10 which amends regulation 14 so that if a category 2 light vehicle importer imports vehicles between 1 January 2023 and 31 May 2023 before any transfer of credits—in other words you imported a low-emissions vehicle you get a credit—in respect of vehicles imported in the period. is given effect to the account holder must make the credits available for offsetting and the director may offset the credits against any charges payable by the importer in respect of other vehicles imported in that period.Now that's a very very interesting amendment. One of the things that I want to bring to the attention of the committee and to New Zealanders who may be listening to this debate or watching it is that often it's the organisations and the individuals directly impacted by legislation who have the deepest and most accurate insights into the way that legislation and regulations are going to affect their businesses and their consumers—their customers. That is why ACT exists. ACT stands for—it's an acronym: the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers. When it comes to this piece of legislation ACT firmly believes that taxpayers are getting a raw deal because of the enormous amount of cost and time and waste of human resources that's gone into establishing the scheme in the first place particularly taking the priorities of Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency who are tasked with delivering a safe and efficient road system taking their eyes off the ball at a time when our roading network has severely degraded and is going to take an enormous investment planning and resourcing to recover—taking their eyes off the ball and forcing them to start looking at how to reduce New Zealand's emissions when we already have the emissions trading scheme.So Minister and for the people at home listening to this debate or watching it the reason ACT exists—the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers—is because we fundamentally believe that when it comes to things like importing vehicles and measuring their carbon dioxide emissions actually unless there's a benefit to doing that why on earth would you set up a regulatory scheme to do that and why—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Mr Court you've previously advertised Subaru; you're now advertising a political party. Please come to Part 2 of the bill. I've been very generous; you've been going for three minutes. Part 2 of the bill please.SIMON COURT: Thank you Mr Chair. I must say that when Greg O'Connor who is in the Chair right now was the chair of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee he gave lots of time to the submitters who raised these very issues that the ACT Party is raising about this bill. So we do appreciate your quality chairing of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee at the time this passed through.Now I want to come to the transfer of credits. Now what we've heard from the industry—and this is potentially an answer to the problem—is that there's a risk that organisations that import low-emissions vehicles will get the carbon credits and then hold on to them because they know that under this Government which has signalled that the emissions cap has to go down every year that the price of carbon credits under the emissions trading scheme is only going to go up. I mean it was $20 a tonne when I came to Parliament in 2020 then $25 then $40; now it's $85 a tonne and we hear from the Climate Change Commission or climate Minister James Shaw that they fully expect it to be in the hundreds of dollars a tonne in the near future.So it would make sense if I was a motor vehicle importer importing low-emissions vehicles that I might want to save my carbon credits for another year because like any Ponzi scheme if you think the value is only going to go up then you hold on to them until the day before the scheme crashes. The problem is Minister like all Ponzi schemes no one knows who is going to crash—[Bell rung] Mr Chair I want to come to my question. So before any transfer of credits in respect of vehicles is allowed—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Sorry Mr Court; I haven't given you the call yet. Simon Court.SIMON COURT: Thank you Mr Chair. I'll come to the question.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): That would be good.SIMON COURT: So does this clause—clause 10(6)—in fact relate to the concern that some importers raised with me that organisations that import low-emissions vehicles could potentially hoard their carbon credits in the anticipation that some time in the future they'd be able to redeem them or exchange them or sell them and trade them at a much higher price? Because it looks like they're going to have to reveal and hand over the ability to exchange them or trade them to the Director of Land Transport.That actually raises another issue Minister. So firstly does this clause address the concern that's been raised with me about hoarding carbon credits under the scheme? Then it actually raises another question. Some vehicle importers actually might want to hold on to the credits because they get vehicles in batches. They might get a low-emissions batch and then at another time of the year they're going to get high-emissions vehicles and so they may want to hold on to their credits to balance them out. But it looks like in this clause here these credits that they might accrue are going to have to be offered to the director to offset against any charges payable when it might make more sense for that importer simply to hold on to the credits and if they have sufficient working capital to pay the charges. So Minister I would like to know does this clause 10(6) which amends regulation 14 address the risk of hoarding carbon credits under the scheme? And will importers actually be required to offset charges in any given month?Then I want to come to clause 11 which amends regulation 28 and about information being publicly available and that any person who wishes to apply for information must apply to the director on the agency's internet site. So Minister could you please explain also the intent behind clause 11? Thank you.