11. Freshwater Management—Farming Practices Water Quality and AdviceHon DAVID PARKER (Labour) to the Minister for the EnvironmentFreshwater Management—Farming Practices Water Quality and Advice11. Hon DAVID PARKER (Labour) to the Minister for the Environment: Does he believe his Government's failure to properly control increases in farm intensity close to waterways has caused much of the river degradation identified in Professor Sir Peter Gluckman's report on New Zealand's fresh water?Hon Dr NICK SMITH (Minister for the Environment): No for three reasons. Firstly Professor Gluckman's report makes plain that this degradation of waterways has occurred over a time frame of many decades going back to early land clearance a century ago. Secondly this Government is the first to put in place legal limits on intensification through the national policy statement (NPS) that has now seen regional councils put limits in 18 catchments. Thirdly the pace of intensification has actually slowed under this Government. There was a 33 percent increase in the size of the dairy herd between 1999 and 2008. Since then the increase over the next 9 years was half that or 17 percent—that is today's growth is substantially smaller and of course there is far tighter regulation of that intensification.Hon David Parker: Well then does he believe the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment who just last year said: [There is a] clear link between expanding dairy farming and increasing stress on water quality. Even with best practice mitigation the large-scale conversion of more land to dairy farming will generally result in more degraded fresh water."?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Yes and I would ask the question as to why that member when a Minister when there was a 33 percent increase in the dairy herd did absolutely nothing and why this Government has had a very aggressive programme of tightening the regulation on improvements in water quality.Hon David Parker: Did he warn his Cabinet colleagues of the dangers to our rivers of allowing cow numbers to increase from 5½ million in 2008 to 6½ million now and why did they ignore him?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Because Cabinet does not actually determine stock numbers. We determine environmental rules and this Cabinet has done more in setting environmental rules around water quality than any Government in New Zealand's history.Todd Muller: What support is there for the Government's freshwater programme in today's report from Sir Peter Gluckman?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: This science report supports the Government programme in three respects. Firstly it puts to bed the criticisms of the Government's swimmability standard and negates the extravagant claims about risk that were applied to those rules. Secondly it makes plain that the Government's timetable of 90 percent of rivers and lakes being swimmable by 2040 is realistic given the time frames of New Zealand's hydrological systems. Thirdly it confirms that the Government's measures of nationally regulating for stock out of waterways as confirmed by the passage last week of the Resource Legislation Amendment Bill actually is the next logical and important step for improving water quality.Todd Muller: What advice has he received on the average levels of E. coli measured in waterways adjacent to indigenous forests exotic forest farmland and urban land uses and what do these say about New Zealand's water quality challenges?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: The average E. coli level in waterways adjacent to indigenous forests is 20 E. coli per 100 mls in exotic forestry it is 67 in pastoral farming areas it has an average of 190 but in urban areas in New Zealand it has an average of 440. This reinforces that to constantly target farmers and ignore the greater level of pollution in urban waterways is allowing politics and not science to colour our response and that both urban and rural New Zealand need to lift our game if we are to take better care of our waterways.Hon David Parker: Given that the OECD the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment and now Chief Science Advisor Sir Peter Gluckman all say our rivers are still getting more polluted why cannot he just fess up and admit that after 8 years he has failed New Zealand?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: Because the member misquotes exactly the professor and Prime Minister's Chief Science Advisor. I directly quote from the report: "The Government's interventions for clean-up programmes are progressing well and showing real results. The levels of phosphorous over the last 8 years have actually improved and it is the issue with nitrates that is the greatest challenge." and that is actually the area where the Government is tightening both the national rules and at long last has some limits in those catchments that are sensitive.Hon David Parker: Does he now accept that he was wrong to spike the Judge Sheppard NPS which would have stopped increases in farming intensity being a permitted activity given that his weak substitute has allowed an extra million cows and more farmers to treat our rivers as drains?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I will draw the honourable member's attention—the size of the dairy herd in New Zealand under the last Labour-Green Government increased by 33 percent over 9 years. In the 9 years of this Government the level of dairy herd has grown by 17 percent roughly half and that is partly because this Government has actually put rules in place whereas in Labour's 9 years it did absolutely zippo about water quality.Hon David Parker: Does he accept the relationship between the high number of freshwater invertebrate species now considered nationally vulnerable or endangered and his policy on their protection which is also spineless?Hon Dr NICK SMITH: I would point out to the member that in the clean water document the Government launched just a couple of weeks ago we for the first time are going to require that the macroinvertebrate community index—the measurement of the species that live in our water—is actually going to be a compulsory requirement in the national policy statement on freshwater. I would draw to the member's attention that in their 9 years they did not even bother to put any national environment standard or any national policy statement in place."