Collins Judith: Corrections (Mothers with Babies) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Collins Judith: Corrections (Mothers with Babies) Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
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JUDITH COLLINS (National—Clevedon) 
: 
 On behalf of the National Party I speak in support of the Corrections (Mothers with Babies) Amendment Bill. I acknowledge the work that Sue Bradford has done on this bill and I thank her for bringing the issue to our attention. I also thank my colleagues in the National Party for the support they gave me and my colleague Katherine Rich when we took this bill to our caucus. I know that many National Party supporters will be a little puzzled that we think that this bill is worthy of our support but we live in the real world and we know that the world we live in is not quite as lovely or as safe for children as it should be. 
I would like to acknowledge at this stage that we have a dead police officer in Mangere and another one shot and fighting for his life. I am overwhelmed to find out that there was a young child in the house concerned. I understand that that is the real world for some people. When we think about a child spending any time in prison I ask frankly who in his or her right mind would think that that was an ideal situation but the sad truth is that for some children it is significantly safer to start their lives in prison rather than in the homes in which we allow them to be brought up in. 
Under this bill should the whole thing go ahead—and I note that rather than there being a set date the commencement date is to be decided by the Governor-General by Order in Council—babies will be in prison with their mothers if their mothers comply with certain requirements. The requirements are that those mothers are drug-free that they look after their babies properly and that they are being good mothers. Those are the sorts of things we would like for all of our children—that their mothers are drug-free are not into alcohol and are looking after them. There will be parenting assistance which will be of extreme value in these situations. Let us be frank: how many mothers do we know who end up in prison for a long period of time? There are not very many. As Mr Goff has said we now have home detention and it seems to be the preferred sentence for most offences but unfortunately some women will end up in prison and we need to give some thought to those of them who have young babies or who are expecting. 
This measure is not a new and outrageous situation. In fact I have in my hand a booklet put out by Her Majesty’s Prison Service in the UK entitled  
All About Mother and Baby Units.  
In looking through it we see that a lot of the issues in the bill are addressed in the booklet. It is about accepting that unfortunately mothers end up in prison sometimes for extended periods of time. They are the mothers of little babies. The fact that they are in prison does not necessarily mean that they are bad mothers but it does mean that we can give their children a start that they may not otherwise have. 
As a mother myself I can say that the bonding between a mother and her baby is surely the most important consideration. We know of many instances in our own lives where that bonding has not occurred. We see how the baby can be affected by that and we see that the mum will never be the good mum she wants to be. We also know that both the mother and the father are important in the bringing up of a child but we cannot have mums dads and babies all together in the same prison—that would be going a little bit too far. 
It is incredibly important that we stick to the provisions about testing for drugs. It is incredibly important that we accept that these mothers are our most vulnerable mothers and our most challenging mothers in many cases and that their babies will be our most vulnerable babies. If we simply allow mums to have babies in prisons and we do not put in place really sensible parenting programmes and really good schemes to make sure they come out of prison not only better people but better mothers then that would be a shame and a waste. 
I am concerned that this bill does not have a commencement date. We had assurances from the Minister of Corrections Phil Goff during the Committee stage that the matter would be addressed. In fact I recall the Deputy Prime Minister Michael Cullen making that clear. I do not know whether Ms Bradford has had any update on that. I am also concerned that there is no actual requirement that parenting facilities be put in place. The mother and baby units will be available only if they are built and the provisions are in place. I think that is something we should give some thought to. How can we introduce legislation that provides for mothers and babies in prison without having a real commitment to provide those services? I hope Ms Bradford who obviously is in discussion with the Government can tell us all about that. 
Breastfeeding is incredibly important for babies and for mothers but let us be frank not many mothers breastfeed these days. It is very difficult for a mother to start to breastfeed when she has been shoved out of hospital within 24 hours of her baby being delivered. It is incredibly difficult to get any sort of system going. It is very very difficult when Plunket does not even know that the mother has had a baby or if it does know it does not know where the mother is. It is very very challenging to expect that breastfeeding will suddenly happen for mothers with babies in prison and we are probably being a little bit hopeful in that regard. 
One thing I think we can say is that if this measure is done properly if it is supported by will rather than simply law we can ensure that for at least some months in a baby’s life the baby has a chance. We can also ensure that a mother who does not have the skills to be a good mother gets some assistance to change. I think that is really important. If we are going to try to rehabilitate people we have to give them hope. I cannot think of a better reason for a mother to have hope for the future than to have a child to look after. I cannot think of anything better than that. It is the one thing that will change some of these women’s lives. 
I am also aware—and Ms Bradford will no doubt remind me—that not all mothers in prison are there because of really bad situations. I think Ms Bradford reminded us of the times when she was arrested for protesting and was put in prison—but not for very long periods of time. Having said that we accept that not everybody is there because they are evil people but rather because they have got themselves into situations that they should not have been in. 
This situation is unusual in that we have multiparty support on the matter of mothers and babies in prison. I think it is an acknowledgment that we understand that life is not perfect. People often talk about crime prison and prisoners and about how terrible it all is but if we look a little more closely we see that most families have either somebody in prison or somebody who has been in prison at some stage; it may be a member of the wider family but for most families there is some connection. Actually we are not all perfect; families are not perfect. As I say to people we can choose our friends but we cannot choose our family—fortunately I like my family. But that is just the way it is. People have to live in the real world. 
In conclusion the National Party is proud to be able to support this bill. We would like—if it is the will of the people—to have an opportunity to implement it to take it from being just words and to actually put it into practice.