O'Connor Greg; Simpson Scott; Brooking RachelPart 2A Exercise of functions powers and duties under this Act CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Members we come now to Part 2A. This is the debate on clauses 30A to 30ZZM. The question is that Part 2A stand part.Hon SCOTT SIMPSON (National—Coromandel): Well they say patience is a virtue so we have arrived eventually. As I indicated previously—and erroneously—under a previous part I do want to spend a few minutes just teasing out clauses 30A through to about 30F I think. These clauses relate specifically to the functions and powers of the Minister for the Environment.Now it goes without saying that for a piece of legislation of this length breadth and depth that the role of Minister for the Environment is going to be very significant in terms of the day-to-day functional operation of this entire statute—not only the natural and built environment statute but also the spatial planning statute and then eventually the adaptation piece which we have yet to see. But in this Part 2A we see that the Minister for the Environment is granted extraordinary powers to be involved at a very intimate and intricate level in almost every single decision-making process.That is part of the framework of the legislation. Particularly for instance in clause 30B where the Minister for Environment may investigate and make recommendations in respect of local authorities and regional planning committees" and then there is a series of specific instances cited in clause 30B. Clause 30C relates to the "Minister for Environment may appoint substitute for local authority"—again extensive powers in that area. In clause 30D the "Minister for Environment may direct preparation of plan change or variation"—again an opportunity to be intimately involved in the process the detail and the work. Clause 30E: "Ministers may direct that review of a plan be undertaken" so even when a plan has been made and established and set in place the Minister may at his or her discretion instruct a review be undertaken. Clause 30F gives the Minister for the Environment the ability to "direct other action that may be taken"—again some wide and extensive powers there.So what I guess I'm getting at with the reference to all these particular clauses is that the particular Minister of the day is going to have enormous influence and power to intervene in a way that may be helpful but similarly may be completely unhelpful. And what concerns me most of all is the potential for a Minister—any given Minister of any particular political flavour colour or hue—to bring to this legislation their own political and eco-political agenda in a way that means that they can influence unduly the process that this legislation seeks to put in place. So my question really to the Minister in the chair is what guarantees what assurances what commitments can she make on behalf of the current Government that these very extensive powers that have been assigned and delegated to the particular Minister for the Environment of the day are going to give certainty are going to give confidence to New Zealanders who want to use this legislation? How are they going to know that for instance in some Government department this current Government—I mean we've had multiple Ministers in some ministries; three four five Ministers in some of those—Simeon Brown: Minister of Transport.Hon SCOTT SIMPSON: Minister of Transport's a good one—how many Ministers of Transport have they had in a relatively short period of time? What would happen what would be the practical implications of a merry-go-round of Ministers—a merry-go-round of Ministers of the sort that we've seen in other portfolios if that applied to the Minister for the Environment—Simeon Brown: Resource management issue.Hon SCOTT SIMPSON: It is a resource management issue. My colleague Simeon Brown makes a very good point. So extensive wide-ranging and enormous power given to the Minister for the Environment. Some might say that we have a steady hand in that portfolio at the moment but that's not always necessarily going to be the case. I can think back to Marian Hobbs I think who at one stage was the Minister for the Environment in a previous Labour administration—I would not have wanted her for instance to have the ability to have the powers and influence that are going to be extended under this legislation.Hon RACHEL BROOKING (Associate Minister for the Environment): I will make a brief reply to this issue and then I think I will swap out of the chair. Yes because we were just talking about the safe pair of hands—the Hon Scott Simpson was saying—that we have in our current Minister for the Environment the Hon David Parker who has just returned to the Chamber. And—Hon Scott Simpson: I don't think it's proper to mention the presence or otherwise of a Minister or a member.Hon RACHEL BROOKING: I can say he's in the Chamber? Apologies for that. So the question is around what are the protections that a Minister won't go rogue with these powers. Of course some of these clauses do provide caveats such as in clause 30E that the Hon Scott Simpson referred to about the "Ministers made direct that review of a plan be undertaken". To do that under clause 30E(3) "The Minister must provide reasons why they are directing [that a review be undertaken] and make their reasons publicly available; and prepare a statement of expectations … and consult any relevant ministers or any other person". Further to that I'd say that of course the purpose of the Act will apply and that is to of course uphold te Oranga o te Taiao.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Simon Court.Hon Rachel Brooking: I'm still here.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): You are still here. I've noticed that. Simon Court."