Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Smith Nick: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:639;Page:9040] 
7.  
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
 to the  
Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues 
: How can the Government achieve the Prime Minister’s goal of carbon neutrality when the latest official figures on New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions show an increase of over 8 million tonnes or 11.7 percent since Labour became Government? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Acting Minister responsible for Climate Change Issues) 
: 
 Over the long term carbon neutrality can be achieved with the steady pursuit of sensible solutions to climate change. A range of factors can come into play: ensuring New Zealand houses are adequately insulated rewarding those who plant forests on erosion-prone land making sure long-term economic settings are correct and greater use of biofuels. A whole range of policies will be required over a long period of time. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does the Minister accept that Labour’s climate change policies have failed when Pete Hodgson in a news release while in Opposition entitled “Labour firmly committed to substantial CO2 reductions” states: “Labour’s policy is to achieve a 20 percent reduction in emissions by 2005.” and our official figures for 2005 show not a 20 percent reduction but a 12 percent increase; if Labour cannot achieve a 20 percent reduction why would anyone believe it can achieve carbon neutrality or a 100 percent reduction? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Clearly that target has not been met. A range of factors come into play—factors such as high dairy prices low timber prices leading to large scale deforestation and conversion of land to dairy farms the high rates of economic growth throughout that period and the failure of Parliament to agree on a range of measures that might have led to earlier reductions in carbon emissions. Let us hope that we learn from that and are able to achieve something of a consensus moving forward around some of these issues. [ 
Interruption 
] I know we will never get consensus from Mr English. He is so bitter that he will not agree to anything this Government proposes. 
Hon Marian Hobbs 
: What reports has the Minister received on other goals for reducing greenhouse gas emissions? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I was very interested to receive a report from television last night indicating that Mr Key is determined to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from livestock. Given that livestock do not emit carbon dioxide that may be one goal he will be able to achieve. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: How can he and the Prime Minister excuse New Zealand’s 12 percent growth in emissions between 2000 and 2005 on the basis of strong economic growth when both the UK and Australia over the same time period achieved similar growth but without the surge in emissions and when between 1993 and 1998 in New Zealand—under National—we had economic growth of the same amount but half the growth in emissions; why is it that emissions have gone up so fast under a Labour Government in New Zealand? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Firstly there was no rampant dairy industry expansion in that period. Secondly of course the year the member is choosing—2005—was an exceptionally dry year with an exceptionally large use of thermal generation within New Zealand. Australia already largely uses thermal generation so it can scarcely increase that. One can get different numbers by choosing different base years. If we take 1990-2005 New Zealand’s growth in emissions at 25 percent is slightly less than Australia’s slightly less than Canada’s half of Spain’s and so on. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why has the Government sought to blame the weather the farmers and economic growth for those bad emissions figures when the data actually show that the largest increase by far comes from Government-owned electricity generators; and given that this Government built a new oil-fired power station in 2002 has trebled the amount of power produced from coal and has blocked renewable energy projects like the Aqua and Dobson projects need it look any further than the mirror in order to work out who is responsible for ballooning emissions? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: To deal with the last part of the question I say first of all that the Government did not block Project Aqua but certainly the local National Party candidate deeply opposed that project when it was being proposed. It was the local National Party candidate who opposed an upgrade of the North Island transmission line which would help renewable production. The member had better start to look at other National members before picking on the Government. 
Peter Brown 
: Will the emissions trading system that the Minister has indicated he will outline in detail in September to any degree provide for international trading or will it simply be a stand-alone New Zealand scheme? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: What the Minister outlined yesterday was a timetable for making decisions around a particular emissions trading system. One of those decisions will be whether it is a New Zealand system or an international system. I doubt very much whether it will be anything other than a broad international system of trading. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Does the Minister agree that although carbon neutrality may take a little while to achieve under the Government’s new proposal for a “cap and trade” emissions trading system the only way New Zealand could even meet its Kyoto responsibilities without a bill going to the taxpayer in 2012 would be to set the cap on emissions at 1990 levels; if so will he be seeking the National Party’s support for such a cap? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I think the member’s calculations in that respect are correct. Clearly to move back to 1990 levels of emission within a very short space of time would do very significant damage to the economy. The important thing over the next few months is to make decisions that are right for the long term in terms of reducing our carbon footprint. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Will the Minister having stated on 6 November 2006: “You asked me what date would New Zealand be carbon neutral. We haven’t picked a date yet. You will find it becomes clear in 6 months.” make the situation clear now that those 6 months have passed as to when New Zealand will be carbon neutral? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I do not have such a date but I can assure the member that it will be announced under a Labour-led Government not under a National-led one. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: If the Government will not use our existing commitment to the Kyoto targets to set an emissions cap then what will it use—or will it just be the result of the intensive lobbying that will now begin to set the cap as high as possible? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Clearly the virtues of a “cap and trade” system if one is approved is that the cap can be lowered progressively over time and therefore one can meet long-term targets with minimal short-term damage to economic activity and therefore to people’s employment. There will obviously be a lot of argument as discussions unfold around what should be done and I am sure there will be a great deal of nimby-ism from all sorts of people. What is clearly quite silly is the suggestion that seems to be coming forth from the National Party that one has a trading system without any cap. At that point there is no purpose in the exercise. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why should any credence be given to the Government’s latest announcements on climate change when previous policy announcements on the flatulence tax the carbon tax negotiated greenhouse agreements and projects to reduce emissions have all been dropped when the Government’s proposed reductions in emissions its improvements in efficiency its increase in renewables and credits from Kyoto have all proved to be wrong and when the Government said in December last year that emissions trading would not be considered until 2012 but now miraculously 6 months later it will be in place next year? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: It is clear that if we are able to take strong action in those areas it will require Parliament to approve legislation. The measures required to be taken cannot be done simply by administrative fiat. Therefore of course it will be important to create a parliamentary majority. This is a chance for the member to outstrip his deputy leader and show some maturity about cross-party issues. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek the leave of the House to table both my letters to David Parker the Minister of Energy in December of 2005 and February of 2006. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table those documents. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection.