Mapp Wayne: General DebateText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeMapp Wayne: General Debate[Sitting date: 22 August 2007. Volume:641;Page:11364. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore): Dysfunction disorganisation—these are the hallmarks of a disintegrating Government. I have to ask the Government speakers: who knew what happened in the Air New Zealand situation? The strangest aspect of the whole issue about Air New Zealand and charter flights is who in theGovernment actually knew the truth. According to the Prime Minister the Minister of Defence and the Minister of Foreign Affairs they knew only last week when the story broke. But in fact most of the senior Government officials—the senior public servants—knew and had known for months. Simon Murdoch had been specifically advised by Rob Fyfe the Chief Executive Officer of Air New Zealand that the flights were to take place. Air New Zealand did the right thing. It knew that the flights were sensitive so it sought advice and spoke to the most senior foreign affairs official in the country—actually chief executive officer to chief executive officer.The information did not remain just with Mr Murdoch. There is a special committee—the Officials Committee for Domestic and External Security Coordination—of which Mr Murdoch is a member. The committee is chaired by Mr Maartin Wevers who is the head of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and it includes the Secretary of Defence Mr John McKinnon. These three people are all former or current diplomats of the highest experience. One would think they knew how to spot a sensitive issue. Other members on the committee include the head of defence the head of SIS the police commissioner and the chief executive of Treasury. They all knew yet apparently no one spoke to a Minister or even to anyone in a Minister’s office.Now we have to take a member’s word in this House—or as the Prime Minister says until it is proven otherwise. That is the formula she used to get rid of Mr Benson-Pope. So we have to ask this simple question: why was it that these experienced public servants thought that they did not have to speak to a single Minister even though Air New Zealand could see there was a potential problem? It is the case that this Government seems to have two foreign policies—one for external consumption and one for local consumption. We saw the local consumption version last week. The Government always attacks the United States—the bogeyman of the left. It happened at the last election. We saw Phil Goff give one of his vein-popping speeches. The Government thinks there is mileage in all of that but Colin James said this week in theNew Zealand Herald that the Government should forget Iraq; the country is simply not interested.The Government also has a different foreign policy—the external one. It is usually a bit of a different message: we like to get on with friendly Governments smoothing over differences and putting them off to the margins—although that was somewhat forgotten by the Prime Minister in reference to Australia this week. One has to ask oneself this question: is this why the officials thought that the flights were OK? Had the Government somehow given an indication that they should be helpful to our friends that all the Government Ministers needed was some form of plausible deniability? On the face of it that is exactly what they had. They came down here and denied.I reckon the public have worked this one out. They can see hypocrisy. They can sense shallow politics. This time the tired old tactic of bashing the United States of bashing our closest friend Australia simply has not worked. I wonder whether any of the members on the other side of the House have actually taken the time and trouble to look at theNew Zealand Herald blogsite. There are about 30 pages on this issue and almost 95 percent are saying that they actually do not care that it does not really matter that it is probably a good thing that we help out our old mate Australia when it asks for it and that Australia is entitled to a bit of respect and support. The public simply do not care.Russell Fairbrother: Off over to Iraq are you?Dr WAYNE MAPP: That is the point that Mr Fairbrother does not work out. The public have moved on. I must make this point to Mr Fairbrother. Mr James was absolutely right. I say to the Government to forget about Iraq because the public areactually looking forward. They are not interested in disputes of the past. They want change and come November 2008 they will have their chance to get it.