3. Question No. 3—Social Development and EmploymentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 3—Social Development and Employment3. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she believe too many New Zealanders are dependent on jobseeker support; if not why not?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment) (remote): Jobseeker support is there for New Zealanders who need it and qualify. Over the course of the past two years many people have had to grapple with the possibility of losing jobs. Many New Zealanders became more aware of what they may or may not be eligible for through the welfare system. We believe the welfare system is an integral safety net for those that lose jobs or are unable to find employment. We also need to keep in mind that of the 178821 receiving jobseeker support 77619 receive the health and disability exemption. We would also never deny sick or disabled New Zealanders access to the welfare system where they are eligible.Hon Louise Upston: How can the Minister claim We are tracking in the right direction." when 116000 people have now spent longer than one year on jobseeker—an almost 50000 increase under Labour—when businesses are desperate for workers?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: If we look at what was happening two years following the global financial crisis we see that about 13.1 percent of the working-age population was on benefit. At the moment we have gone through a very serious economic crisis off the back of the pandemic and two years after it started we are looking at 11.1 percent of our working-age population on benefit. Early predictions were much worse than what we're seeing now and what we are seeing are the best exits off benefit into employment than we've ever seen since economic records were kept or started being kept. We absolutely do believe that we are tracking in the right direction and we are focused on continuing with this mahi.Hon Louise Upston: How can she claim "We have increased our focus on getting people back into work." when fewer people on benefit for three years or longer have exited into employment in 2018 2019 2020 and 2021 compared to 2017?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We've discussed these numbers in the House before. When you have an increase—Hon Louise Upston: No we haven't.SPEAKER: Order!Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: —an increase—SPEAKER: Keep going.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: When you have an increase in the numbers of people on benefit then in every time period you will see that raw figure go up as well. There hasn't been a significant increase in the proportions in any given category. However we do watch it closely. It's also important to note that when we have difficult economic times and the labour market is tight which at times it has been over the course of the last two years then those that were already disadvantaged in the employment market will be even more disadvantaged in the employment market. So we continue to invest in the right places and are targeting those who need most support through the welfare system not only for income support but of course for upskilling and training and employment support.Hon Louise Upston: Should someone be able to continue receiving the jobseeker benefit if they do not take up a vacancy in a local supermarket?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The member really needs to be clear that she's talking about the jobseeker work-ready versus the jobseeker benefit where people have a health condition or disability. About 43 percent of those that are on the jobseeker benefit have an exemption because of health condition or disability. In the past unfortunately there has been very little focus on supporting that particular cohort and only recently have we as a Government launched a—the first ever I believe—disability employment action plan. There are lots of barriers in place for people that are on benefit to finding employment and we shouldn't just put it down to their lack of willingness to work. We're very focused on removing those barriers whilst supporting those people into employment. Hon Louise Upston: Does she agree that children's outcomes are better with a parent in work? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Yes often that is the case. That's why we invested as a Government into the Training Incentive Allowance—the Training Incentive Allowance that was disestablished by the previous National Government. All of the research tells us that a child's level of education—SPEAKER: Order! I am going to interrupt the Minister. She I think answered the question in the first word and some of her answers have been very long. Is there a further supplementary? No."