Penk Chris; Sio Aupito WilliamCHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi): Thank you Madam Chair. That's helpful from the Minister; again appreciate the engagement.I suppose it's worth noting that if they were to be paid in the future for doing the work that they are already doing that's equivalent to community magistrates then it would be probably appropriate at that point to bring them into this regime. But for now that's probably as far as we can go.In relation to the acting Chief Community Magistrate and acting community magistrate roles I refer to section 61 as it will be within the District Court Act so within the bill it's clause 11. So this is where if someone is acting as a Chief Community Magistrate or community magistrate but not in that chief role—that top gig—then they also have the protections afforded to the community magistrate proper under this legislation. That seems appropriate. They're doing the job and again we don't want them to be subject to influence by way of threat that their salaries and allowances and so forth could be reduced in an unfair arbitrary way that would amount to political interference.But I do note actually just comparing that situation of the community magistrates community with others in the legislation—I don't know if there's often an acting role of chairperson or deputy chairperson of the Human Rights Review Tribunal for example. But if so would the Minister think that someone who was acting in that role would also be entitled to the same protection as the permanent chairperson or deputy chairperson of such a tribunal?Hon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Associate Minister of Justice): My recollection was: absolutely depending on the role and the function and responsibilities that they are performing. My understanding was an acting community magistrate is carrying out the full functions of that of a community magistrate. So I don't really see the difference in that.Again I think at some stage—and this is one of the reasons why I think it's important to have this remuneration authority is so that politicians aren't tinkering with the salaries of people who are performing a judicial or quasi-judicial role that should remain independent from politicians.CHRIS PENK (National—Kaipara ki Mahurangi): Thank you Madam Chair. Again we remain on the same page. This is going extremely well actually if I may say—if I can be accused of liking the sound of my own voice and actually by now I don't but I can assure you that I'm having a great time. I hope everyone else is too and feel free to join in he said while desperately looking around—all around him and behind him. Harete Hipango has spent a fair proportion of her life in and around courts in her professional capacity and if she wants to rescue us all then that would not be unwelcome but I also won't put pressure on her. There's plenty more I can say and plenty more the Minister can say too for that matter. Simeon Brown is hiding by the way. He's also got a law degree but he's keeping very quiet right now keeping his head down probably tweeting!Anyway just a little further bit on this—well it happens to be Part 2 but we're doing it all together so I can recklessly flit about between the different provisions. I did have a question to do with the fact that we've got a system where the setting of the fees allowances and salaries is set by a body other than Parliament and yet it is Parliament that appropriates money—that is passes in an annual Budget—to the Government of the day for the running of the country let's just say. Of course we can all agree or disagree about how the Government is spending money but that's how the system works. Of course it's outside of their remit to set the salaries for judicial officers and yet it will be the Government who has to provide the money to be spent by the taxpayer through them on this purpose.So I just wonder if the Minister can explain because it's actually an interesting question that arises even before this bill came to us how it is that the Government knows how much money's going to need to be spent on these salaries allowances and fees given that it could be set at some very high level by the Remuneration Authority and the Government will be bound simply to follow along.Hon AUPITO WILLIAM SIO (Associate Minister of Justice): We're really delving into detail that I don't have before me at the moment but they are good questions.My understanding is that the Ministry of Justice is the ministry that is responsible for ensuring that it provides the Budget bids on behalf of all areas and functions. That includes the courts and it includes salaries. I know that they are solely responsible for that.Obviously of course I would imagine that if the Remuneration Authority provided advice that the Ministry of Justice had not budgeted for then they would be compelled to find it within internal resources. It's the same function that I've observed as a Minister with oversight on this where often judges will make the call on certain things and the ministry would just have to find the money within their internal budget. That's something that is not within my responsibility at all and it should stay that way so that we politicians aren't tinkering and interfering with decisions that ought to remain independent as part of the administration and as part of the judicial.