Carter David: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
Carter David: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Third Reading 
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Hon DAVID CARTER (National) 
: 
 In a debate like this I am certainly pleased to be part of the National Party caucus which on issues regarding tobacco alcohol prostitution and the like allows members to make a conscience decision. I am here today appreciating the ability to make a decision based on my conscience and I will certainly be voting against this bill. It is yet another piece of legislation that will be labelled anti-business legislation. We have the smoke-free legislation today and tomorrow we move to the matter of 4 weeks’ holiday—yet another hurdle that will make it harder for businesses in New Zealand to do business. 
I want to comment on the views of my colleague Dr Paul Hutchison which he holds very firmly and which obviously differ completely from mine. He says this is a matter of freedom and I say “Rubbish!”. [ 
Interruption 
] It is not a matter of freedom. 
Hon Damien O'Connor 
: He’s a doctor. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: The member keeps interrupting and saying that he is a doctor. Yes he is a doctor a very good doctor and that is why he holds such convincing views—because he has dealt with the damage that tobacco does. If the Minister would mind not interrupting and would allow me to speak he could hear my point of view. 
Jill Pettis 
: “And I’ll hang myself on my own.” 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: Am I going to get a fair go or not Mr Speaker? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Of course you are. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: Paul Hutchison said that it was a matter of freedom. The freedom I have is to choose whether to go into a pub. That is the free choice that should be available to people. I happen to live in a small rural environment and the only facility we have about 2½ kilometres from home is a pub. I drive past it every night when I happen to go home and I see that friends and colleagues have gone to that pub to have a beer and a smoke at the end of the day. They choose to do that. I do not like the smoky environment—I am an asthmatic. My choice is not to go into that place. 
Paul Hutchison and other speakers have spoken about the fact that when this legislation is passed people will be able to take their families to restaurants. Most of the restaurants in Christchurch are already smoke-free. They have become smoke-free because the market has demanded it. And that was the solution to this issue tonight—to allow pubs like the Blackball Hilton which Mr O’Connor spoke about to operate smoke-free because they see the business advantage in doing so. How can Mr O’Connor stand here and say the current legislation is working well on the West Coast and refer to the Blackball Hilton then stupidly support legislation that takes away freedom of choice? The bill takes away the freedom of that hotel operator to decide whether he wants to run a hotel bar in a smoke-free environment or a smoky environment. It takes away the choice of West Coasters to go into that pub and have a smoke. I say to Mr O’Connor that they have not got that choice. He should get real. When this legislation is passed and enacted that mate of his who used to go into the pub and have a beer will not have that choice any more. 
Hon Damien O'Connor 
: Plenty of choice. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: So the Minister should not keep interrupting and saying he does have that choice. This legislation takes that choice away. 
The other thing Paul Hutchison spoke about—again it has been repeated by people like Sue Kedgley—is that this legislation will save our young people from suffering the effect of second-hand smoke. This legislation bans smoking in pubs. Our young children should not be in pubs but they will be in their homes where their parents smoke so I ask Mr O’Connor how this legislation helps those young people. It does not and that is another one of those mistruths that have been promoted by people like that Minister who have accepted the edict from Helen Clark that every member of the Labour caucus is to vote for this bill regardless of their conscience. [ 
Interruption 
] Mr O’Connor interrupts again. I could name many members of his caucus who have come to me and said that they do not support this legislation. They think it is stupid they think it is unreasonable yet they have been whipped by Helen Clark and told they are not allowed to follow their conscience. 
Sitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: My further criticism of this legislation is the shambolic way in which it has passed through this House. It has been called a member’s bill under the name of now Steve Chadwick yet we had the Associate Minister of Health Damien O’Connor saying before the dinner break that he was pleased to be sponsoring this bill. The real fact is— 
Hon Damien O'Connor 
: I was supporting it. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: He said “sponsoring” and he should check his  
Hansard.  
The real point is that at all times this bill has really been Government legislation; Labour members are being whipped by the Prime Minister so none of them are allowed to vote according to their conscience and that has been confirmed to me by a number of those members who are prepared to be honest about it. 
The Associate Minister Damien O’Connor also spoke about how even-handed this legislation is. I would have some acceptance of the credibility of that statement if there were any penalties at all for people who disregard the law and light up cigarettes in bars. But because of the logic of the Greens that particular segment has been taken out of the legislation and all liability now rests with the publican. Somebody can come into a bar defy the law light up a cigarette and not face any penalties at all. That is totally unfair and illogical. 
During the long Committee stage I asked a number of questions that remain unanswered. I asked about what thought had been given to the effect of this legislation on passers-by going along the footpath outside the pubs and cafes down Courtenay Place when a number of patrons affected by liquor are standing there smoking their cigarettes. The interjection from the junior Government whip Jill Pettis was that I should not be ridiculous and that it would not happen. I asked who will clean up the cigarette butts and who will provide ashtrays for people standing on the pavement and smoking. Again I got the same interjection from Jill Pettis—that I should not be ridiculous and that it would not happen. I say to that member that those examples will happen and no thought was given to them during the select committee process. 
The other point that became evident was the large amount of money—$13 million – odd a year—that has been spent by non-Government organisations to try to educate people about the dangers of smoking. It is valued work. The more money we spend trying to stop people from taking up this repulsive habit the better. But some of that money was spent on lobbying members of Parliament and that was unacceptable and outrageous. 
I want to conclude on something I mentioned earlier. This legislation would be unnecessary if the public of New Zealand expressed strongly enough their dislike of smoking environments. That would mean that a lot of hotels on the West Coast—not only the Blackball Hilton referred to by the Associate Minister—would see the advantage in operating a smoke-free environment. If more hotels did that then I might go back into hotels to enjoy a beer. That is the way this issue should be decided. Let the operators see the advantage in providing a nice clean environment. That would be the appropriate way to do it. 
I conclude by acknowledging the importance of the hospitality industry to New Zealanders. Most New Zealanders partake of the hospitality industry on many many occasions—by the day and by the week—but it may be something that members on the other side are unfamiliar with. What those members should have done was to go out and see the good work the hospitality industry creates and how it assists the very community of New Zealand. This bill will make it harder for people to operate within that industry now. The talk about there not having been an economic effect in other parts of the world particularly America is just rubbish. There will be an effect on the profitability of these businesses. There will be an immediate decline in revenue as people adjust to this new legislation. 
Hon Damien O'Connor 
: Look at the facts. 
Hon DAVID CARTER 
: For Damien O’Connor to say that will not happen means one of two things: either he is economically illiterate or he knows that people will just ignore the law. Either situation is not acceptable and this is not satisfactory legislation.