Kuriger BarbaraBARBARA KURIGER (National—Taranaki - King Country): Thank you Mr Speaker. Well I'm just not sure that any of the members that I've heard speaking on the other side of the House understand their own piece of legislation. There's been some really really interesting statements in the last couple of speeches. I heard Kieran McAnulty get up and go Councils can't afford this so let the Government do it. It won't cost these ratepayers anything." So how would Mr McAnulty describe the $2.5 billion that's been given to councils as the encouragement to support these reforms? Where did that money come from? Maybe money grows on trees in the Wairarapa but it certainly doesn't where most of us come from. So let's just come away from this idea that the Government's being all generous and it's not going to cost the ratepayers any money because "101" for the people on the other side of the House: ratepayers and taxpayers are often in many cases the same people. So we'll squash that idea. I'm going to squash a second idea this afternoon—that the Government's been listening. The Government and this Minister Nanaia Mahuta have not been listening to the feedback that's come with three waters. I haven't seen many things where the public has got so engaged against a proposal as they have with the three waters proposal. They're absolutely livid they don't want it and there's no listening to what's going on. But the other part of the not listening is that the members on the other side of the House stand up and say that the National Party and the National caucus say that there isn't a problem and are happy with the status quo—now that is not the truth. But the truth is that there is more than one way to solve things and the three waters proposed solution—as is in this piece of legislation—is not the answer. They're using again a centralised model. We had it in the House last week; we had the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill. If it wasn't for the National Party caucus members the word "rural" would not have even been in that Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Bill. I'm really concerned about this three waters piece of legislation that exactly—over and over again under this Government—750000 people who live in rural New Zealand are going to miss out. So I get really concerned about this one share for 50000 people. Now Angela Roberts will know this because Angela's the list MP in Taranaki - King Country which I'm the MP for. We represent about 65000 people across eight councils. So there are eight councils either in or partly in the Taranaki - King Country electorate. So when we talk about one share for 50000 people and there's 65000 people across that whole area and some people are in entity B and some people are in other entities it's just absolutely ridiculous to think that anyone that lives on a rural road in rural New Zealand is going to end up getting a say in any one of these four entities as proposed by the Government. Absolutely it's centralisation an asset-grab and it's been done in the worst sort of ways. We all know that there are some problems out there with water but this Government has been using scaremonger tactics with advertisements that they've spent a fortune on which been paid for—again not free—with taxpayers' money; ads showing slime coming out of taps on TV. They're showing green slime they're scaring our kids so they're not wanting to drink the water to make a point an over-the-top point. So what is really not certain and what I haven't heard anyone on the other side of the House today say since I've been here is what the benefits are of the scale that they are aiming to create with the three waters legislation. There do not seem to be any benefits of scale and I can't see how rural New Zealand's even going to be able to participate in this. And I don't understand and we don't understand how linking Gisborne and Blenheim is going to make anybody feel part of a community that's going to solve a problem or get a solution. It's just ridiculous. It's centralisation it's spreading people apart it's giving them no say it's leaving them in the outreaches of New Zealand and saying "Government knows best." This Government thinks it knows best about everything. A majority of councils do not support the three waters plan. They've said time and time again they've tried to get this Government to listen they've tried to come up with suggestions they've tried to be part of a process and they've tried to offer simple alternatives. But no the Government thinks that they know best and they're not prepared to listen.Despite what this Government calls engagement it's never real engagement because the ears are closed. The Cabinet papers show that the decision to proceed with compulsory centralisation was already made long before the consultation began. So let me repeat that: despite the Government talking about engagement the Cabinet papers show that the decision to proceed with compulsory centralisation was already made long before the consultation began. So there we are. It's just a centralisation it's just an asset grab and it's got nothing to do with fixing the actual water. It's all to do with this Government taking everything into its own hands and not trusting our local communities and our rural communities to be able to work out ways to solve their issues.So Labour's using the minor changes made by the Government working group as a proof that they're listening to feedback and that is not correct. The Government has not listened to feedback all the way through it it's just an appetite for amalgamation and we've seen it before. We've seen it in all of the planning. I mean look at the district health boards. We just talked about Pae Ora before. We can talk about vocational education. It's clearly ideology for Labour—that's all it is. They haven't properly considered any alternatives and there are many alternatives and there are many suggestions. This one-size-fits-all approach does not work.Any one of my eight councils let alone any of the 67 councils that sit across the country—some of them are quite small councils. But actually they have their act together. They've got stuff done; they've got stuff worked out. They're joining forces they're helping each other and they're finding ways. Central Government may have a role in helping this but it doesn't meant to say it has to pick it up and take it over.We are at National going to continue to fight Labour's centralisation. The public doesn't like it; we don't like it. We live in a democracy and the public want to be able to have their say as ratepayers and taxpayers want to be able to have their say.I think the thing that really is interesting here is that councils have understandably asked why the three waters reforms and the Resource Management Act reforms are occurring before the Government's Future for Local Government Review is completed. It seems like once again—Simon Watts: That's right. Horse before the cart.BARBARA KURIGER: —the cart—yeah exactly. The cart is being put before the horse.The one thing that this Government is very good at is delivering bad legislation. What they're not good at is delivering on most of the other things that the public of New Zealand would expect them to deliver on. So we've got councils out there that don't like having this done to them they don't want to have this done to their citizens and they're actually looking at this Government asking "What's next? What are they going to take next? What's left for councils to do? What are the alternatives for council or are we going to centralise everything?"For us National caucus members on this side of the House 2023 cannot come fast enough because the public has had enough—they've absolutely had enough of this Government's centralisation. I can guarantee you there was talk on the other side of the House of this going to select committee and the select committee doing a wonderful job. Most of the things that go to select committee don't get a lot of change because the Government won't listen to those submissions either. They'll get the same submissions that'll come in. They'll get the people telling them time and time again "We don't want this—we don't want it." The Government will not listen and they'll just push this through. But the good thing about it is that in 2023 the public will be pushing and the public will push this Government right out the door. Thank you Mr Speaker."