Goff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeGoff Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 17 April 2013. Volume:689;Page:9437. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]7.Hon PHIL GOFF (Labour—Mt Roskill) to theMinister of Defence: Will he rule out further cuts to personnel numbers in the New Zealand Defence Force and cuts to the inshore patrol vessel fleet; if not what cuts are being considered?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Minister of Defence): There are no plans to reduce the personnel numbers in the New Zealand Defence Force and no plans to reduce the number of inshore patrol vessels. Furthermore no cuts to capability are being considered.Hon Phil Goff: If there are no plans to cut the inshore patrol vessels why did the Chief of Defence Force Rhys Jones say on Sunday that reducing the inshore patrol vessel fleet was an option; and was that because there will be further cost-cutting or was it because he simply cannot put all the ships to sea because he does not have the trained personnel to staff them and the Aussies want their seconded sailors back?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: There are a number of limbs to that question. The first thing is that the Chief of Defence Force’s remarks were taken out of context. He was talking about the long-term view out to 2035. As regards putting ships to sea both frigates are at sea and of the inshore patrol vessels three of the four are ready to deploy and the two offshore patrol vessels are at sea. If that member thinks that there are too many inshore patrol vessels I would remind him that he was the one who bought them.Hon Phil Goff: Just so that we can get it clearly on the House’s record will the Minister categorically rule out any further cuts in Defence Force numbers after the reduction that he made of more than a thousand in the Defence Force last year?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: Numbers go up and down but the numbers where they are at the moment are about right. We are looking at a long-term regular Defence Force of 8500 to 9000 which is the range currently and there are no plans to reduce that.Hon Phil Goff: When the Minister was warned in the latest Defence Force Ongoing Attitude Survey not yet made public that “the combination of current levels of morale and organisational commitment poses potential risk to individual performance and attrition” why does he continue to deny that these factors could have contributed to the catalogue of errors that led to the death of Private Michael Ross?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: Well we have talked about this previously and I categorically deny that morale issues are anything to do with what was a very tragic accident. I would also go on to say that 77 percent of people across the Defence Force rate morale in the workplace as satisfactory or better and 70 percent rate their own morale as satisfactory or better—a lot better than I would suggest you would find in the Labour caucus right now.Hon Phil Goff: When there is so much emphasis on cost saving and cost cutting in the New Zealand Defence Force why is the Defence Force continuing to pay Commodore Kevin Keat $225000 a year when he was suspended months ago and it would take the Minister 10 minutes to find out whether he did fraudulently fill out the high-level security vetting form? [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member asked a supplementary question. I certainly want to hear the answer even if the member himself does not.Hon Phil Goff: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I was responding to an interjection from the Minister of Justice as you yourself heard and your response was unbalanced.Mr SPEAKER: Order! There were too many interjections from around the House including not only the member but other members of his caucus. Let us now hear the answer. I think that is a reasonable point Mr Goff has made.Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Your response again failed to note that Judith Collins set off those interjections.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I did not note that but where I noted the loudest interjection coming from was the member who has just raised the point of order. I am going to ask the member the Hon Phil Goff to ask his question because we now have discontinuity.Hon Phil Goff: When there is so much being said about cost cutting and cost saving in the New Zealand Defence Force why is the New Zealand Defence Force continuing to pay Commodore Kevin Keat $225000 a year when he was suspended months ago and it would take the Minister 10 minutes to find out whether or not he inaccurately and falsely filled out his high-level security vetting form?Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: That member seems to be calling for me to override a legal process. Mr Keat deserves the benefit of natural justice. There is a process to follow there are legal issues and that member knows very well that it has to follow the prescribed process. I would challenge him: if he wants to go outside the Chamber and say that Mr Keat is guilty and should be sacked he should have the guts to do that.Hon Clayton Cosgrove: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think if you analyse pretty simply that last remark that was grossly out of order to accuse a member of not having guts. There are many many precedents on that and Speakers have thrown members out for that. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: I think that on balance that is an absolutely fair point of order and I ask the Minister to rise and withdraw the last part of his answer.Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN: I withdraw and apologise for that last part.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. As you were seeking to correct the offence Mr Tau Henare decided to add to it by shouting out words that confirmed that he believed it was true. He should be asked to apologise wash his mouth out and leave the House.Mr SPEAKER: Order! If Mr Tau Henare said that I ask him to stand withdraw and apologise as well.Hon Tau Henare: I apologise.Mr SPEAKER: And withdraw.Hon Tau Henare: And I withdraw.