Brownlee Gerry: General Debate 
Brownlee Gerry: General Debate 
[Volume:640;Page:10692] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
: 
 I hope the graduation ceremony speech next year at Massey University will be better than that effort. I am very confident that the Massey University library researchers will be better than those in the Labour Party. I further want to say to Mr Maharey that when he stalks the halls of power as the vice-chancellor of the university he will be welcome in our office despite his own Government’s attitude to these things. 
That comment relates of course to the incidents that have unravelled in the House this week and indeed in the media relating to the Government’s decision to end or terminate the employment of Madeleine Setchell in the Ministry for the Environment. We have heard a whole lot of excuses from people about why this happened. The Minister himself said he knew nothing about it at all until apparently someone in his office picked up a telephone rang the chief executive of the Ministry for the Environment and said: “Look I don’t want to get in the road of your employment policies but is it true that this person has a connection that we find unfavourable?”. Apparently that person then went to Mr Benson-Pope and said: “Look there’s been a rumour around. I’ve just managed to confirm it.” He did not then ask what Mr Benson-Pope thought or what he should do; he apparently did not say anything. The Minister has told the House that there was no discussion. 
Apparently some time later Hugh Logan sitting at his desk thought: “I wonder why Steve Hurring rang me about that? Perhaps I’d better investigate a bit further. Maybe there’s something they need to tell me.” Well we do not know whether he rang them but we do know that there were a series of meetings we heard today between the Minister and the chief executive of the Ministry for the Environment where all sorts of things were discussed. Can members imagine that in the course of those discussions Mr Logan did not say: “By the way I’m looking into that matter.” or “What do you think about that particular issue?” or “Are you happy if I take this particular course of action?”. Apparently there was no discussion whatsoever. Mr Logan concluded that there was going to be a conflict of interest and therefore he had to manage Ms Setchell out of this particular position. 
Well they are the facts as presented by the Government. But no one in their right mind believes that that was how it worked. The reality is bound to be much more along these lines: Mr Benson-Pope heard the rumour Mr Benson-Pope asked for the rumour to be checked out and Mr Benson-Pope said: “No that woman has to go.” Mr Logan was instructed one way or the other by any manner of communication to achieve just that. 
The interesting thing is that there was at least a month between the time the Minister became aware of Ms Setchell’s appointment and the exit of Ms Setchell from that department. So there had to have been lots of discussion and lots of consideration. The thing that really makes us a little bit suspicious about what went on is that even after her employers had been through this exercise and even after they had gone through the charade of offering Madeleine Setchell a different position—a junior position—they tried to keep it quiet after they had constructively dismissed her because she was politically connected in their view. Let me make it very clear that Madeleine Setchell is entitled to her political views. I do not know what they are. I do not even know what Kevin Taylor’s views are upstairs. They are good servants to us—or he is—and she has been a good servant to the State and they deserve to be treated much better— 
Rodney Hide 
: That’s a Freudian slip from you! 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: That may well have been a Freudian slip I am not sure but I am fortunate because I do not know what a Freudian slip actually means and clearly yesterday Mr Benson-Pope did not know either. 
One would think after going through this sort of exercise that this department might be a little cautious. But no members should remember that the department was in this process from 28 May. On 30 June the department placed an A4-sized ad in the  
Dominion Post 
. The ad states: “Do you want to work on issues that are at the forefront of New Zealand’s political agenda?”.