Jones Dail: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Jones Dail: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:620;Page:16168] 
4.  
DAIL JONES (NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: Is there to be any limit imposed by the Government on the increasing amount spent on the trial and incarceration of suspected terrorist Ahmed Zaoui? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 Ahmed Zaoui is the subject of a security risk certificate. There is a process to be followed. This process has incurred costs. The full extent of those costs will not be known until the matter is resolved. 
Dail Jones 
: What other maximum-level costs is this Government prepared to breach in the Zaoui case given that according to his letter dated 30 September 2004 the Legal Services Agency has already exceeded a total maximum grant outlined by the Minister of Justice of about $220000 by more than $20000 and that at the same time we have reports that court costs are becoming an inhibiting factor to ordinary people’s rights to justice? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As I said there is a process to be gone through. Costs are incurred as a result of the process. We will know the full extent of costs when the matter has been fully resolved. 
Keith Locke 
: Does the Minister agree that his main options for limiting costs would have been either to release Mr Zaoui as a legitimate refugee or not to appeal those court decisions upholding Mr Zaoui’s rights—both of which options would have been acceptable to the Green Party but probably not to New Zealand First? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister can reply in relation to everything except the very last comment. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: It is probably not appropriate to talk about that matter because it is now before the court. 
Dail Jones 
: How many people in the past 5 years have arrived in New Zealand like Mr Zaoui on false documentation and have been successful in being allowed to remain here; and what is the Government’s policy towards those who arrive here on false documentation—is there a free-for-all for example? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Firstly it is not a free-for-all. Secondly Ahmed Zaoui is the only person who has been subject to a security risk certificate. As far as the first part of the member’s question goes I will endeavour to get the figures the member has asked for as soon as I can. 
Keith Locke 
: Has the Minister read Dail Jones’ comments in a press statement this morning that: “Access to justice for all is the hallmark of a civilised society.”; and does he agree that it would have been uncivilised to deny Mr Zaoui access to the judicial process on the grounds of cost? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Yes and no. 
Dail Jones 
: What inquiries have been undertaken now that Mr Zaoui has been here for nearly 2 years into how people manage to arrive here on false documentation who is providing such documentation from within and outside New Zealand and who in New Zealand is providing assistance to those people before they come to New Zealand; and what obligations if any do we have to accept such people? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There are a number of questions there but the Minister may comment. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Firstly this Government is being very serious about issues to do with scams and the matters the member has raised. More resources have been put into those areas and more people are being caught which is a very important signal to the rest of the world that such matters are not to be tolerated in New Zealand. I am hoping that the member will support any action around toughening up on those matters. Secondly we have already announced that we are to have a review of matters to do with what the member has raised and I am looking forward to that member’s support for that.