Grigg Nicola; O'Connor DamienNew clause 2A clauses 3 to 12 and the ScheduleNICOLA GRIGG (National—Selwyn): Thank you Mr Chair.Hon Mark Mitchell: This'll be good.NICOLA GRIGG: Mark Mitchell don't distract me. During the remaining course of this committee stage the National Party intends to put up a variety of options to the Minister and indeed the Director-General of Primary Industries that would ask them—particularly the Minister—to consider options that might look like regulation licensing permitting and certifying kinds of regimes. Look we know on this side of the House that in its heart of hearts the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) believes that New Zealand can indeed continue the export of live animals in a safe humane fair cruelty-free way.The ministry itself in 2020 came out with its own recommendations that would enable this trade to continue in a safe humane fair way. The ministry has drawn on the recommendations made by Michael Heron QC after the terrible accident of 2019 that would allow for this trade to continue. On this side of the House we believe that this ban as has been announced is a knee-jerk reaction to a terrible terrible accident. But we also believe that since the ban was announced this country is now operating in a completely different trade and export environment. This is an extremely inflexible ban. It does not allow for the economic ramifications that have been found out to be far more factual than has been demonstrated by the ministry. It is our view that the ministry has been lazy in its reporting of the economic ramifications on rural New Zealand. The ministry says it would be a $261 million loss to rural New Zealand. Well from investigations and research pulled together by Infometrics it now transpires it's more likely to be a $475 million per annum hit to rural New Zealand. Therefore as I said in my opening remarks this side of the House wants to put up today options for the Minister to consider that might allow for the Director-General of MPI to have or to be able to draw on a licensing regime a permitting regime a certification regime.So I turn the Minister's and the House's attention to clause 10. We would like to put forward new section 48A in Supplementary Order Paper (SOP) 205 under my name. It would insert new section 48A. As I said this will hopefully contend with the economic ramification of this ban. We would like to see on this side of the House inserted in this bill requirements for regulations permitting the application for and approval of animal welfare export certificates by the director-general. The reason we feel so strongly about this is that there absolutely is a way New Zealand can continue this trade in a fair and humane way. Importantly though it would set New Zealand in a position to be a world leader in this trade area. We do not believe that a ban of New Zealand live exports to offshore jurisdictions will solve the problem of inhumane trade that is occurring from other jurisdictions around the world. We would like to see a Supplementary Order Paper 205 considered by the Minister today please. It introduces an exemption mechanism whereby individual exports of live cattle can be granted on a case by case basis. We would ask the Minister to consider that. It will allow for regulations to be made that permit the granting of animal welfare export certificates. Thus it gives the director-general the flexibility to authorise or not export shipments that would meet world-leading standards.We believe that this will continue the preservation of global food security in an environment where we have a war in Europe. Estimations are about 100000 cattle will be lost to that. We have a foot-and-mouth outbreak in the likes of Indonesia and estimations are 50000 cattle will be culled. We firmly maintain this live export trade must be allowed to continue from New Zealand to countries that are permitted and regulated in accordance to a standardised system that we will discuss as we go through this committee stage. So my question to the Minister: has he given consideration to the likes of SOP 205 whereby the director-general would be allowed an exemption regime and a certification regime?Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture): Thank you Mr Chair and I'll take the opportunity to answer the questions put on that particular Supplementary Order Paper. Look just to re-emphasise the fact that Government is moving in this area for the very reason that the member puts up which is that we are in a different trade and export environment—quite true. Actually the people who buy our products offshore are often paying a premium from a country where they expect we run the highest standards across all our production systems so we have to ensure that that is true. Look what I can do is refer to where just in recent times of course we've had issues of non-payment of uncertainty around the trade within New Zealand itself. That has created litigation that is not systemic but it is indicative of the challenges around this opportunistic trading that we have.Again 15000 sheep drowned on another ship in the Sudan with the point being that across the globe there has been growing concern around the issue of live exports. I think that we will see more as we have clear indications from other countries that they will be looking to restrict if not ban the export of live animals. The issue for New Zealand is that it is such a long distance from many of the markets that we have traditionally supplied. The issue of heat stress and the issue of animal welfare is something we can't ensure in those journeys which is why we are moving to ban this to give clarity to those people who want to breed farm and process animals in our country so that we have certainty moving forward.CHAIRPERSON (Ian McKelvie): I'm going to go to Mark Cameron but before I do I just need to correct a statement I made earlier. When I introduced the questions I said that clauses 3 to 12 and the Schedule will stand part. What I should have said was that new clauses 2A to 12 and the Schedule will stand part.