Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:653;Page:2624] 
6.  
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: Will his Government continue to support its Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill in light of advice suggesting it may lead to criminals attempting to kill police and victims in order to avoid arrest? 
Hon SIMON POWER (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 Yes but the ultimate form the bill takes will be shaped by the outcome of the select committee process. The member might be interested to know that I am also advised that similar concerns that offenders may kill their victims to avoid liability for an increased penalty were raised when the maximum penalty for sexual violation was increased from 14 to 20 years in 1993. The Ministry of Justice is not aware of any evidence that this has occurred. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Will his Government continue to support its Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill in light of advice that it could lead to judges giving shorter sentences to offenders to avoid the no-parole policy cause havoc in prisons and clog our court system? 
Hon SIMON POWER 
: Yes. As I said in response to the first question I have an open mind about what shape the bill may take when it emerges from the select committee. The member might be interested to know that the advice I have is that the number of offenders before the courts at any one time under this legislation would be small. With regard to court backlogs I can assure the member that much work is under way in this space and real change is on the way. 
Paul Quinn 
: Is he satisfied with the progress of the Sentencing and Payroll Reform Bill and other justice legislation— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am trying to assist the member. I do not think it is the Sentencing and Payroll Reform Bill. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has made his point. I invite the member to ask his question again. 
Paul Quinn 
: Is he satisfied with the progress of the Sentencing and Parole Reform Bill and other justice legislation? 
Hon SIMON POWER 
: Yes. Since the election the Government has passed five justice bills introduced another seven and progressed three others. I am afraid that the member opposite Clayton Cosgrove will have to do better than getting his ideas for questions from last week’s  
Dominion Post 
. He will have to lift his game. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does he agree that National and the Prime Minister have misled the public— 
Hon Simon Power 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I was unable to hear that question because the member’s own leader was interjecting at the time he was putting the question. I would be happy to answer it if he would repeat the question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am not sure but I do not think it was the honourable Leader of the Opposition. I suspect it was the Hon Trevor Mallard. I confess it did make it— [ 
Interruption 
] A point of order has been raised by the honourable member and he is now interjecting on his own point of order. I found it difficult to hear too so I invite the Hon Clayton Cosgrove to please repeat his question. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does the Minister agree that National and the Prime Minister have misled the public by campaigning on a no-parole policy that they said would see an estimated 572 additional prisoners by 2011 when in reality as his own Government has only now admitted its policy would result in just 50 more offenders being added to the prison population over 4 years? 
Hon SIMON POWER 
: No I agree completely with the Prime Minister’s statements because unlike the previous Labour Government which saw Damien O’Connor deny the need for a new prison despite its own forecast that showed another would be needed we wanted the public to know the cost of what we were putting in front of them. That is why we incorporated the forecast increase in prison numbers into our estimate of the impact of the sentencing policy. That information was provided on our website at the time the policy was launched and the member might be interested to know that it is still there today. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does he agree with his own Government’s spokesman who said in the  
New Zealand Herald  
on 18 April 2009 in relation to National’s misleading figures: “In any case as a responsible opposition we thought it was better to over-estimate rather than under-estimate because we wanted the public to be clear that parole changes come at a cost.” and does he think that deliberately misleading the public with a figure that was more than 10 times the factual reality is an acceptable “overestimation”? 
Hon SIMON POWER 
: Yes I do agree with the Government spokesperson on those numbers because as I said in answer to the last question it was quite clear that the forecast numbers had to be included. It was made clear at the time the policy was launched on our website. If the member did his homework he would see that fact is still on our website today.