Robertson Grant: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Robertson Grant: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 04 October 2011. Volume:676;Page:21632. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
9. 
GRANT ROBERTSON (Labour—Wellington Central) 
 to the  
Associate Minister of Health 
: Does he stand by all the answers he gave on behalf of the Minister of Health to Oral Question No 8 last Tuesday? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN (Associate Minister of Health) 
: 
 Yes. 
Grant Robertson 
: Did he or his office receive an email last Monday from Auckland woman Jo Heighton that said that she and her husband had “nearly been killed” after an attack by a patient who had been released from the Auckland District Health Board acute mental health unit; an attack that left her husband with two skull fractures and 65 stitches and had traumatised her family? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I refer you to Standing Order 111. This is a matter that is currently before the courts. I know you have discretion as to whether that question can be asked but I cannot answer relating to that matter for the very reason that it is not in the public interest and it may prejudice the case. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is perfectly within the Minister’s rights to make that decision. He does not need my approval if the matter is in the Minister’s view not in the public interest to be answered because it is before the courts. That is perfectly reasonable. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I know that there is an absolute discretion here but it is certainly not under Standing Order 111. The question was nothing to do with any matter before the court; it was: did he receive an email? Whether a Minister received an email cannot possibly affect a judicial decision. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It is up to the Minister to decide whether answering that question may compromise it. Whether it is believed that bringing the Minister into the issue could compromise the case it is not for me to determine. Obviously other members and the public will judge the Minister’s judgment in terms of whether it is not in the public interest to reply but the Minister has indicated that in his view it is not in the public interest to reply to that question and I must respect that. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am now at somewhat of a loss because I think there has been an understanding reached between National and Labour with regard to changes to the Standing Orders some of which go very close to this particular question and certainly go to a question of trust. I do not think anyone believes that a judicial decision could be changed by that. For a Minister to claim that it could be is something that could well upset the acceptance by this party— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: —of a unanimous report— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: —of the Standing Orders— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member will resume his seat. Members do not get into threats like that when a Minister—it is not becoming. The Minister in his view believes that the circumstances are such that it is not in the public interest to answer the question. Others will judge that. Further supplementary questions can be tested. We will just have to see whether the Minister considers any of them to be in the public interest to answer. But at the end of the day the people heard the question and they heard the point of order the member made. They will judge the Minister’s judgment on whether he should be answering the question in the public interest. 
Grant Robertson 
: Can he confirm the report in the  
Herald on Sunday 
 this past Sunday that Jo Heighton sent an email to his office last Monday saying that she and her husband had “nearly been killed” after an attack by a patient who had been released from the Auckland District Health Board acute mental health unit; an attack that left her husband with two skull fractures 65 stitches and had traumatised her family? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: As I said in my answer to the first supplementary question I am not going to comment on this case because it is before the courts. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Did his office receive an email as described in the last supplementary question? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: See answers to supplementary questions Nos 1 and 2. 
Grant Robertson 
: In light of the email that Jo Heighton told the  
Herald on Sunday 
 she sent the Minister last Monday why did he say in the House last Tuesday that there had been “a marked improvement in the … way that patients are managed.” at the Auckland District Health Board acute mental health unit an answer that Jo Heighton said sounded like the Minister was wiping his hands clean of dealing with problems at the unit? 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I think that question falls well short of Standing Order 371(1)(b). [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Some senior members may be leaving this Chamber unless they start behaving. A point of order was raised by the Hon Gerry Brownlee who is one of their senior colleagues. I am taking it seriously and other members of the House would be wise to do so as well. The member has referred to Standing Order 371(1)(b). The issue in Standing Order 371(1)(b) is that questions should not contain “arguments inferences imputations epithets ironical expressions or expressions of opinion”. The questioner cited a newspaper story in respect of a supposed email being sent to the Minister’s office and asked the Minister why the Minister told the House that he believed things were improved—or whatever—in this mental health unit. I do not see how that question is ruled out by Standing Order 371(1)(b) because the questioner has not inserted any of his own opinion; he has just cited a newspaper story. That is how I heard the question. If I am wrong I am happy to be corrected. I think the questioner Grant Robertson is entitled to ask that question. 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My point is that the question was couched in the words “In light of”. That immediately leads to the statement in the newspaper being a fact that the member is now expressing as part of his opinion in asking that question. I think when you consider the whole context of the nature of the questioning and the response from the Minister to three previous supplementary questions then it can be construed only as just another way of trying to get at exactly the same stuff. I think that you would have to say that it does contain an expression of opinion because the member is asserting that what was in the newspaper article was in fact the case when there has been no confirmation of that in the House today.  
Hon David Parker 
: It is quite in order for Mr Robertson to put that question. It is also quite in order for the Minister if he denies it to say it is wrong. I put it that the question is quite proper as you have already ruled. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The point raised by the Hon Gerry Brownlee is a relevant issue. With supplementary questions we do need to be careful. I tend to allow them because Ministers are free to refute expressions of opinion or statements of supposed fact that are inserted into questions. I do not rule them out even though some of them may be out of order. In this particular case though the member is allegedly quoting a newspaper and newspaper stories can be used to validate even primary questions. I obviously cannot ascertain whether the newspaper does contain this claim but I basically have to take the member at his word that there is a newspaper story that makes this claim. It is up to the Minister. If the Minister considers it not in the public interest to answer the question the Minister is perfectly at liberty to say that. The public interest can be judged only by the Minister not by the Speaker. Reference to the particulars of a case is certainly not in order. General principles involved have traditionally been able to be discussed in this House without being a breach of our normal consideration of matters before the court. So I invite Grant Robertson to repeat his question and the Minister knows it is his judgment as to whether it is in the public interest to answer it. 
Grant Robertson 
: In light of Auckland woman Jo Heighton saying in the  
Herald on Sunday 
 last Sunday that she sent an email to Mr Coleman’s office why did he say in the House last Tuesday that there had been a marked improvement in the way patients are being managed at the unit an answer that Jo Heighton said sounded like the Minister was wiping his hands clean of dealing with problems at the unit? 
Hon Dr JONATHAN COLEMAN 
: I said that in the House last week because it is backed up by an independent report and I am quite happy to table that report in the House today for that gentleman’s edification. I seek leave to table that report. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Grant Robertson 
: I know that you do not approve of the seeking of leave to table newspaper articles but I think that in the circumstances— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no—the member is quite correct. We do not table articles from recent newspapers. The member will note that I accepted his question as being in order on the basis of what was in the newspaper. I think he has had the Speaker reasonably supportive of the question he was asking.