Webb DuncanDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Very briefly I just want to tell the Minister that he's too modest by half because without his outstanding leadership this turn-around in the prisons would not have occurred. I sat on the Justice Committee on this review and I must say I was curious because the officials and the CEO of the prisons gave a very good presentation but I wanted to go and see for myself. So I took the time to go and see Christchurch Men's Prison and Christchurch Women's Prison because I think you get an entirely different view when you're there. I'll tell you what: the corrections staff in those prisons had a different attitude. They were relieved that at last they had permission to help the people who they were incarcerating. They were relieved.I was disappointed on that committee when I heard the National Party members express concern. They expressed concern because corrections staff were helping inmates with bail applications and with parole applications. They said Oh my goodness. Doesn't this mean we might be putting dangerous people out on the streets?" No. What it means is that people are getting their rights and entitlements. If someone is deserving of parole or deserving of electronic bail when they're on remand then the fact that they can't write effectively should not be a barrier to it.That is part of the turn-around on the prison numbers—that all of a sudden corrections staff have been given permission to assist these people to find the best place in the community for them whether that be out there on bail whether it be on parole or in some cases whether they remain in prison. I must say that the recent announcement of the Māori pathway is just another example of that with various departments coming together. Whānau Ora Minister Henare and Minister Sepuloni the Minister of Social Development and Minister Davis—three fantastic Ministers committed to working together with their departments to make sure that there is a continual pathway so that a person who receives a prison sentence receives all of the attention they need at every level—and bringing in hapū and iwi and bringing in their family as well.This is another example of the fact that we don't need to use the sledgehammer of legislation. What we need simply is to change—to use the tools we have got and change the approach and change the culture.Had we not done this we would have had a huge amount of double-bunking. I went in and looked at some of those cells and some of the cells that were having to being used when we had our peak muster were quite frankly horrid. They were tiny and they weren't fit for purpose. There was a row of empty double-bunk cells that were no longer needed and that was a fantastic thing to see because it meant that our prisoners could be kept in conditions which recognise their humanity far better.So I want to congratulate all the Ministers involved here—Minister Davis especially for initiating his high-impact innovation programme for looking at ways in which we can lower that prison population and reduce reoffending. All of the statistics—the assaults the escapes and the prison muster—they're all falling. We're on track. We're doing something right and we're going to keep doing it. This was an outstanding review of an outstanding department."