10. Question No. 10—Social DevelopmentHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentQuestion No. 10—Social Development10. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by all her statements and actions? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): Yes. Hon Louise Upston: Why did she say yesterday in the House in answer to oral question No. 9 about job seeker numbers that—and I quote—The recent increase is primarily driven by population growth" when the percentage of working-age population on main benefit has increased in the last year? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I'd need to check the Hansard but I think that she may have cut my quote off. I said it was primarily driven by population growth and also the need for upskilling and training given the types of jobs that are being promoted and also softening in some sectors. If we look at the working-age population that is currently on benefits it's 9.7 percent. When we first took office in 2017 in December 2017 it was 9.8 percent. Hon Louise Upston: What is the Minister's definition of the word "primarily"? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: If you put the word "primarily" into the context of the sentence that I gave the other day which said primarily population growth and—A-N-D—the need for more upskilling and training and the softening in some sectors and then I gave three reasons. There were primarily three reasons that I gave yesterday in the House remember? Hon Louise Upston: Why did she quote the example of Mana in Mahi helping young people into employment when there's been a dropout rate of 32 percent? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: We have met our targets with regard to Mana in Mahi. I'd like to acknowledge our Minister of Employment the Hon Willie Jackson for the wonderful job that he is doing with respect to that programme. We set an initial target of 150. There were 240 I think—off the top of my head—or 30 that were actually placed in positions. There were a few that didn't stay in those particular placements and I gave a range of reasons for that today in Estimates. I want to put on record that there are a range of reasons. It's not always the fault of the young person; in fact employers had business problems where they had to lay people off. The main thing is that the Ministry of Social Development is there to pick the young people up and to guide them towards other opportunities—SPEAKER: Order! Order! That's enough. Hon Louise Upston: In light of her answer to question No. 9 yesterday when she said there is no link between work obligations and job seeker numbers how can someone get a job if they don't turn up for an interview? Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I think what we're hearing from that member is that negative stigma that often we see about people in the benefit system. More often than not people on benefit and in the welfare system do want to work. This Government is committed to supporting them to work rather than judging them or labelling them or stigmatising them as she continues to do. Hon Louise Upston: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a clear question around turning up for interviews. SPEAKER: Yes and it related to a previous question. If the member had put it down—as I've said to a number of members—as part of a specific question rather than a general one the member could ask for a more specific answer. She didn't so she can't."