Carter DavidRt Hon DAVID CARTER (National): It's a pleasure for me to make a contribution to this legislation following the very learned contribution from the Professor" Fletcher Tabuteau. My involvement was of course slightly different to Fletcher Tabuteau's in that I wasn't on the Finance and Expenditure Committee as it arrived before the select committee so I did miss the opportunity to hear from the officials and I actually take—Hon Dr David Clark: What was that member doing?Rt Hon DAVID CARTER: Oh at that stage I was doing a completely different job. I was actually keeping this place in order. But of course we've had an election since then which the member should know about because he's now here and he wasn't here beforehand.But be that as it may I did not have the opportunity to listen to the officials and I found I was therefore at a disadvantage as I listened to the submissions. I find the officials come before these select committees whether they agree with legislation or not—and we've got two examples before the select committee at the moment: the overseas investment and the regional fuel tax legislation. Regardless of whether they agree with it they're there to work for the Government; they're there to make sure they present the best possible information to the select committee. And I take this opportunity of just thanking the officials who appear before the Finance and Expenditure Committee for their excellent work. So I did miss the briefings but then came forward and heard the submissions and I want to talk about those in a minute but not before I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the member who sponsored the bill Stuart Smith.It's not easy to get a bill before the House and to successfully get it passed through this House in such a way as this debate's been going tonight. First of all Mr Smith had to realise there was a problem and he did that. He then worked and found a solution and then he had to work hard within the financial industry to make sure there was general acceptance of the solutions that he was proposing. He then has to write the bill. Of course he's got to get it selected out of the ballot. And it was a privilege then to see it get to this stage where it seems to be getting complete support by the House and I take this opportunity of congratulating Stuart Smith.I had the privilege of actually working with Mr Smith over the weekend—on Friday afternoon Friday night and Saturday—and I can see the way that he was absolutely respected. He's well recognised. He's well known for the hard work he does in the Kaikōura electorate. I was going to say he was revered that he was adored but I think that would be going over the top. But he's certainly very well respected and more so for this excellent work he's done with this piece of legislation.When I look at the bill itself and realise it's replacing legislation dated 1982 it's not surprising that it actually needs to be before the House. For those and there are many other on the other side—Michael Wood for example probably wasn't around in 1982. But I can tell him that we've been through significant financial deregulation in that time and of course legislation dated that old will clearly be out of date and therefore it is a pleasure to see it here.But what I found really puzzling with the legislation was the way the industry itself did not have a clear position. We'd receive a submission that was fully supportive and then we'd see another one that was fully opposed to it. We have the Aotea Credit Union absolutely supportive of the legislation and then we had the New Zealand Credit Union of Auckland trading as NZCU completely opposed. You'd then get the next one which was the Credit Union Central which was founded in Kawerau in 1967 so you could say it represents the Bay of Plenty area; they were supportive. Co-op Money NZ were supportive. The two that I then found fascinating were the New Zealand Firefighters Credit Union which came before the Finance and Expenditure Committee completely supportive arguing that 35-year-old legislation had to be updated and then we immediately heard from the Police and Families Credit Union who were absolutely opposed to it. So it wasn't an easy job then for the select committee to wade through this series of submissions and decide where to come forward and come up with a recommendation that was accepted by this House.But I think the issue as I go through it was a real fear from those that opposed it about this loss of mutuality and when we delved into that issue further—and Stuart Smith just reminded me of it—a lot of them were clouded by the experience of credit union reform in Australia where they'd then aligned their reform to companies corporate legislation. In other words the big mistake that perhaps was made in Australia was that they put corporate interest company interest ahead of members' interest. We had no intention of making the same mistake.One of the compelling things that struck me through the submission process was the lack of an ability to lend to a small or medium sized enterprise—not allowed under the 1982 legislation but yet they all appeared before us and said "Well we've found a way to do it. We actually lend it to the member. We know that the member's then lending it from the member to the business and we get around it that way." That just seems to me to completely circumvent legislation and I could see no good reason at all why these credit unions shouldn't be in a position to lend to small and medium sized enterprises throughout New Zealand because they're the very kernel of the New Zealand economy. We all know that. We all hear it. We heard the rhetoric even from the Prime Minister in the last few days pointing out how important small and medium sized enterprises are for the New Zealand economy.Hon Member: Confidence is dropping though.Rt Hon DAVID CARTER: But I've got to say that actions speak a lot louder than words as the interjection from Tim Macindoe comes. We are working on a range of new taxes and we're stopping investment with other legislation before the select committee but here we have legislation recognising the importance of those small business units their ability to seek and get capital and now under this legislation they will be able to do so without circumventing the spirit of law—in fact the very legislation of the law.So I take this opportunity of commending this piece of legislation to the House. I take the opportunity again of congratulating Stuart Smith for recognising the importance of updating legislation that was dated previously 1982 bringing it into the 21st century and making it useful. I do hope that those credit unions that opposed it at the time will take the opportunity now to consider the opportunities that are given by the reformed legislation.I take the opportunity also of recognising the importance of this particular small but very important sector within our financial industry. It plays a very valuable part it services the members it's allowed to continue to service the members under this new legislation and I hope that as a sector it will continue to profit and prosper and help those small and medium sized businesses right around New Zealand—the sort of ones that I don't agree with what Iain Lees-Galloway said about on Sunday "if they can't hack it just get out." I think that's a completely arrogant point of view from the Minister—what is he—for Workplace Relations and Safety. These businesses make New Zealand tick and I think we should give them every encouragement. I hope this legislation is another avenue by which they can continue to prosper."