Webb Duncan; Weenink Vanessa; Woods Megan; Brown SimeonHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Thank you Mr Chair. It's a real pleasure to take a call on this really important bill the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill and it's something that I had an interest in in the previous Government because the legislation there took a approach which saw not only an objective of regulatory compliance—that is freshwater standards and so on—but also had a whole framework around quality and price standards as well. So in terms of looking at the purposes of the bill which essentially seem to be structural purposes to get a framework for delivery of water I'm wondering why in there there's nothing about the consumer there's nothing about the purpose of the bill being to deliver water services to the consumer at a price and a quality which is appropriate.And in particular in tying that in to the definitions section there as well I see that one of the key definitions is financially sustainable". And "financially sustainable" essentially is defined to mean that they've got enough money to meet their regulatory thresholds. But again in doing that there's no real identification of the need to meet quality and price standards for the consumer. Now quality standards aren't just "the water doesn't make me sick" it's that the water is there consistently and that there's not outages. And of course the price standard is also not just "I want it cheap" it's a price standard which is reasonable given the costs of the infrastructure the long-term costs and the ability of the consumer to pay and all of those things going in. Now in terms of infrastructure like this we've got models—airports are one example—where pricing structures are regulated in terms of the long-term cost of infrastructure. And I'm interested to hear from the Minister where in terms of the if you like hierarchy—to use words from another legislative framework—does the consumer sit in this? Because at the moment just on a first reading of the purpose clause just on its words it seems to say the consumer isn't really relevant to this piece of legislation. "Consumer" is a defined term. So they sit there somewhere. In clause 5 "consumer means a person who consumes uses acquires or is provided with water services".The other consumers—and I know that my colleague Mr Bayly would be interested in this because he had something to say about this—may also include future consumers which might be developers who want to develop an area of land and want water connections. Now where do they sit in that? Because that's in terms of water being a critical part of infrastructure to unlock land for housing and industrial and commercial development a really important point.So my question is twofold. "Financially sustainable": why is there no reference in there to the provision of water at a price and quality that is appropriate? And in terms of purpose why is there nothing in the purpose clause which talks about protecting the interests and entitlements of the consumers of water services? Perhaps (2)(b) is when we're talking about "consumers" as defined. Do we include consumers who might be future consumers people who might want to connect to the water network in the future? Thank you Mr Speaker.Dr VANESSA WEENINK (National—Banks Peninsula): I move That debate on this question now close.Hon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour—Wigram): Thank you Mr Chair. I have a very specific question for the Minister in relation to an answer that he has given in the Chamber. I appreciate what the Minister said in terms of the lack of moving beyond qualitative and indicative costings is because it's the desire of the Government to build a bottom-up approach working with councils to get a sense of what the costings would be. But I'd just like to hear from the Minister about how that approach will work if clause 3(2)(b) is implemented and the Minister intervenes because he's not satisfied with the water service delivery plan. How will it work when there aren't any more detailed costings and these have moved beyond indicative if that 3(2)(b) is instituted?Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Local Government): I thank the members for their questions. In relation to Hon Duncan Webb's questions the issues around price quality affordability and the regulatory framework are all good questions. There are three parts to our water reforms. This is the second piece of legislation. There is a third piece of legislation which will come which will include a number of those particular elements and this puts in place the start of the initial regulatory framework. I'd also make the point though that the purpose of this Act is to establish a framework for local government to manage and deliver water services. That is the purpose of this Act. It's around the water service delivery plans it's around the council-controlled organisation opportunities and it's around Watercare. That's the purpose of this particular legislation. There is further legislation to come.In terms of the Hon Megan Woods' question there ultimately the process is around the use of the powers which are envisaged through 3(2)(b) within Part 2 of the bill and in terms of the process but it doesn't change the fundamentals in terms of the water service delivery plan needing to be prepared."