Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:648;Page:17326] 
11.  
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
 to the  
Minister of Housing 
: Does she stand by the statement with regard to State housing that “cases of subletting are very rare” that pursuing them would be a “wild goose chase” and that the Minister is “still waiting for Mr Heatley to front up with a single example”? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Education) 
on behalf of the  
Minister of Housing 
: Madam Speaker— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It might facilitate things if the House were to take question No. 12 now. Clearly the Minister of Housing who was in the House just a few minutes ago has been detained outside somewhere and will presumably be back soon so that she is able to answer the questions. Of course that would be a lot more satisfactory than— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Is leave being sought to do that? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I cannot seek leave to do that; it would be by agreement of the House. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I know that you cannot do so. I am just wondering what the point is. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: The Minister left because she is due to catch a flight; she had to leave the Chamber. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Now that we have established that members not in the Chamber are catching flights could we please have the answer to the question. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Yes the Minister of Housing stands by the statement made by the very talented and able former housing Minister in November 2006. Cases of subletting are very rare. Indeed subletting accounted for just 0.06 percent of all tenancies last year. 
Phil Heatley 
: Can the Minister confirm that through select committee processes we have discovered that another 44 new subletting scams have come to light so far this year; if so were these cases serious in her opinion? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Any cases of fraud are serious and are dealt with promptly and with due process of the law. I remind the House that when I was privileged to be housing Minister in the very first case I think of subletting that that member brought to me it was found that the tenant Maxine Hardy was in hospital and her brother was looking after the house. 
Lynne Pillay 
: What steps is the Labour Government doing to help house some of New Zealand’s most needy families? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The Labour-led Government— 
Phil Heatley 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My primary question was fixed on subletting scams. The answer to that question was fixed on subletting scams. The member Lynne Pillay is moving well wide of the mark. Madam Speaker you have never allowed me the scope to move around various Housing New Zealand Corporation management practices when the question down on the Order Paper and subsequent answers have been specific. The member should not be able to ask a general question about the Housing New Zealand Corporation; it must be fixed on subletting. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Could Lynne Pillay please repeat her supplementary question. 
Lynne Pillay 
: What steps is the Labour Government doing to help house some of New Zealand’s most needy families? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Now that I have had an opportunity to hear the full supplementary question yes I think that it could relate to the primary question. If I started interpreting supplementary questions very narrowly we would probably not have many of them. Members should think very carefully about whether that is the ruling they wish me to give. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I say with considerable pride as a member of the Labour-led Government that we have taken many steps to look after New Zealand’s most needy families in the housing area. We have reintroduced income-related rents which has made a profound difference to the thousands of families that are living in State houses and has lifted many of them out of poverty. In addition we have added 7793 homes to the housing portfolio stock we have given out 3000 Welcome Home Loans we have launched a shared-equity pilot scheme we have transformed urban communities like Aranui in Christchurch and Talbot Park in Glen Innes we have modernised 5100 properties and we have done 17300 retrofits. And so it goes on—a list of achievements that a Government can be proud of. 
Phil Heatley 
: Is this a “wild goose chase” given that among the latest 44 scams a New Lynn tenant illegally sublet a house for 8 years 6 months a Mangere tenant for 8 years 3 months another Mangere tenant for 5 years 8 months and a Takapuna tenant for 5 years 6 months? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I hope those are more genuine cases than that of poor old Maxine Hardy whose case this member brought to the House 2 years ago. We found out that she was in hospital and her brother was looking after the house. 
Phil Heatley 
: Does the Minister have the courage to tell all the needy families— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please rephrase the question. He knows that is not appropriate; he is not a new member. 
Phil Heatley 
: Will the Minister tell all the needy families on the waiting list that subletting scams are a small problem or does she think those families would have liked to move into one of those State houses over the last 8 years instead of living in garages or caravans or on the streets? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I can with a lot of pride say that we have added 7793 houses to the Housing New Zealand Corporation portfolio and I can with shame for that member say that his previous Government sold 13000 of them. 
Phil Heatley 
: Has illegal subletting increased year on year under Labour’s watch or is it that the corporation is now acting on cases of tenants who have been subletting illegally for up to 8 years just because such cases are now being publicly highlighted? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The member is clearly very sensitive. We are talking about 0.06 percent of tenancies. That is 0.06 percent too many but in the greater context of the whole housing portfolio I think it is a very trivial problem. 
Phil Heatley 
: Can the Minister tell the House whether the corporation has caught up with the high-profile sportsman who sublet his State house while he had a bach in the Bay of Islands; if it has caught up with him what is the latest information on this case does he still owe the taxpayer $32650 and when will that issue be resolved? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I can confirm that that particular individual is in court facing charges. As every member in this House knows it is entirely inappropriate to talk about a case that is currently before the courts. 
Phil Heatley 
: I would like to table the estimates list of the 44 scams and their details— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Phil Heatley 
: I would like to table question time denials by the Minister of Housing that subletting rorts actually exist. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is. 
Phil Heatley 
: I would like to table the committee transcript on the tenant who is before the court next week— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is.