Nash StuartHon STUART NASH (Minister of Revenue): Thank you very much. The CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): I didn't hear you there. Hon STUART NASH: That's OK; I should've shouted louder. There are a couple of points I'd like to make for the honourable member who just stood up Jacqui—oh she's obviously not interested in hearing the answers. But that's OK; I'll let the committee know.Hon Alfred Ngaro: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. It is part of the Standing Orders that we're not to refer to a member who's left the Chamber.The CHAIRPERSON (Poto Williams): That's entirely correct. I remind the Minister of that.Hon STUART NASH: My apologies—my apologies. Now what the honourable member talked about is actually inconsistent with the purpose of this which is to help people pay their winter power bill. Now I do accept there are places in summer where it gets incredibly hot and I do accept that perhaps the heat pump will go on and cool air will come out and this sort of carry on and that may increase the cost of the power bill. I accept that apart from the fact that there is nowhere in New Zealand that has an average summer temperature over 35—but that's beside the point.But one thing I do know is that for the average power bill in winter about 30 to 40 percent of that is around heating hot water. The cost of heating hot water in winter can be substantially greater than it is in summer. So I don't think you'll find in the vast majority of houses that the power bill in summer even on a hot day is as consistently high as it is in the middle of winter. The member is right—I do want to reiterate this—that as it says in the bill it starts from 1 May and it goes for 22 weeks.The Hon Louise Upston made a couple of points and I would like to just answer those questions. This is about helping people who need help to pay their power bill—helping superannuitants and people on the main benefit and veterans pension to pay their power bill. There are no exceptions. The member mentioned someone who is overseas. Well if you are overseas then there is no need for help to pay the power bill.Hon Nathan Guy: Well why didn't you target it then? Why didn't you target it?Hon STUART NASH: Member we did target it; that's why we've said that you have got to be in the country to accept it. If you're overseas for 28 days or longer you don't actually get it. That is what targeting is.The other thing is that I think that the members miss the point. The point of the winter energy payment is to help people who live in New Zealand to pay their power bill. If they are overseas they are not having a power bill. I must say though that if it's a couple and one heads overseas and the other remains at home they will continue to get the winter energy payment.And as for Mr Joyce I just want to remind Mr Joyce that these days there are these amazing things called computers. We don't actually operate on ledgers. We don't have people at the Ministry of Social Development sitting there with a paper ledger that records on paper who's there and who isn't there. We have systems that actually record when people leave and when they return. You will not see someone who comes along with a clipboard and assesses your tan to make sure that you haven't been away for longer than 28 days. In fact if you are away for 29 days or 30 days or 31 days the intention is that as soon as you get home you can turn on your computer you can go online and you can re-enrol. It will be a very very simple process for re-enrolling.This is very targeted. It targets people in winter from 1 May for 22 weeks to help them pay their power bill. What is more targeted than that?