Upston LouiseHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō): Thank you Madam Speaker. It's probably about 95 percent of what the former speaker said that I completely agree with and I think one of the challenges when we are in Parliament is we are actually debating what is in the bill as opposed to what the intent of the original bill was. I think that's a big part of the frustration for the National Partly because absolutely we condemn conversion therapy. We condemn abusive practices that prevent someone from being who they are and from loving who they choose to love. I want to make it very clear that the National Party wants to support the bill but the issue that was raised and that the Minister has not been able to answer is the question of the prosecution of parents. That was asked of the Minister and he hasn't been able to answer that simple question so the reality for the National Party is we absolutely support the intent of it but to be responsible parliamentarians we must look at: what does the bill actually say and do?We implore the Government to fix the problem. We implore the Government to fix the problem and not create new ones. Our primary concern is the exposure of parents to prosecution and I would have thought members opposite would also be concerned about that—about that concern—and that's why we have very clearly and simply asked for an exemption for parents. I'm really hopeful that during the select committee process the members opposite—and I take the Minister's point; he extended the branch to listen to what Opposition parties were contributing to take them on board to consider them because I can speak very confidently in that the National Party wants to have a bill that we can support. We want to have a bill that can be unanimously passed through this Parliament—but the sticking point is about parents. So let's just explore this a bit further because in listening to family members listening to young people listening to those who have been through the very sorts of things that the previous speaker expressed I think it's really important that we consider that. Consider the sensitive years before the age of 18 when it's challenging for any young New Zealander anyway and add to that sexual orientation or gender identity—and I want people to consider young people doing that in complete isolation of their family. I think it would be a derogation of responsibility for us to in any way shape or form create a path where young people would do that on their own or parents would feel concerned about what they might say or what they might do and where that might lead to a criminal prosecution. So we've asked the question. The Minister hasn't been able to clearly state that parents—Louisa Wall: Read the bill. It's in the bill.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Well yeah I'm asking. This is a Government bill. This is the Minister—the question's been asked and that's not how we see it. So there is no exemption.Chlöe Swarbrick: You're playing politics.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: No this is not about politics. This is absolutely not. Do not put words in my mouth. Experts say that research shows that how parents respond can be fundamental to their children's mental health and wellbeing now and in the future. We want parents to lean in at this time in a young person's life and not lean out. I implore the Government to consider a parental exemption so that no parent and no young person is in a situation where they're concerned about this type of engagement. We want to have open conversations with our teenagers. We want to walk alongside them. We want to offer advice. In many instances they won't take that advice and that's fine. But we are talking here about medical procedures. Are you seriously saying as a parent when a young person under the age of 18 is considering a medical procedure that you as a parent you as a parent shouldn't engage support provide advice get external advice? Obviously not. So the Labour Government members are basically saying the State should have more say over your family than parents. That's exactly it. That is the crux of it. So make the parental exemption make the parental exemption because this is—Louisa Wall: They're already exempted.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Well the Minister hasn't said that explicitly. That's not the expectation of what's in the bill and that's what we want to see explicitly—a parental exemption. So young people should be able to seek advice. Young people should be able to seek advice of their families as well as others and we don't want them excluded or criminalised which is completely what is in the bill as written. It's a complete deviation from what was originally considered—ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jenny Salesa): Order! I invite the member to come back to the bill.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I'm on the bill. So as the Minister said—[Interruption]Maureen Pugh: Show some respect.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Yeah they clearly don't care. They clearly don't care about parents because that's at the crux of this issue. We're talking about young people 18 and under and medical procedures that this bill does not protect. So that is our concern. We're happy to draw a line in the sand on that issue and that issue alone. And I will say again—I'll say again so there is no shadow of doubt—National wants to support this bill. We abhor conversion therapy and anything that harms or abuses or creates issues for any New Zealander to choose who they are to be who they are and to love who they choose. So that's our contribution. I'd like to think the other side's listening. They're clearly not. I'd like to see when the bill progresses that there is clarity and a parental exemption because no young person and no parent should have this hanging over them.