1. Question No. 1—FinanceSUZE REDMAYNE (National—Rangitīkei) to the Minister of FinanceORAL QUESTIONSQUESTIONS TO MINISTERSQuestion No. 1—Finance1. SUZE REDMAYNE (National—Rangitīkei) to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on New Zealand's fiscal position? Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): I received Treasury's briefing to the incoming Minister (BIM) which was publicly released a week and a half ago. The BIM told me that between 2019 and 2023 the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has calculated according to their own cross-country measure that net debt in New Zealand increased by 18 percent of GDP—18 percent of GDP. Suze Redmayne: Is that increase in debt greater or less than in other comparable countries? Hon NICOLA WILLIS: As I said the increase in New Zealand's net debt over the period 2019-23 was 18 percent of GDP on the IMF's measure. Treasury's BIM tells me that Australia's net debt over this period rose by only 2 percent Denmark's and Ireland's net debt reduced and the average increase across 32 advanced economies was only 4 percent. Suze Redmayne: Was that 18 percent increase in net debt due to COVID? Hon NICOLA WILLIS: In part it will have been. But I am reliably informed that all countries in the world suffered from COVID so COVID is no excuse for New Zealand to have such a large increase in its debt. Hon David Seymour: Did the previous Government use this extraordinary 18 percent of GDP expansion in public debt to build valuable infrastructure or leave some other legacy that would assist future New Zealanders in paying that debt off? SPEAKER: It's very borderline that question. But a reasonable answer might be forthcoming. Hon NICOLA WILLIS: The question New Zealanders often ask me is: Has there ever been a Government that has spent so much but delivered so little"—SPEAKER: OK that's enough of that. Suze Redmayne: How high is New Zealand's net debt compared to previous years? Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Historical comparisons are made a little difficult by the fact that in 2022 the previous finance Minister changed the definition of net debt in a way that instantly lowered it by about 20 percentage points of GDP. However if you use the old established measure of net debt it is evident that New Zealand's net debt this year is forecast to be 44 percent of GDP compared to 22 percent when National left office in 2017. Furthermore net debt of 44 percent is the highest it has been in New Zealand in 30 years. Hon Grant Robertson: Can the Minister confirm that two paragraphs below the one she quoted in her primary answer the Treasury told her in their BIM that "Nevertheless New Zealand's debt remains low relative to other advanced economies. The average Government debt among advanced economies in 2023 was 47 percent of GDP compared with 24 percent for New Zealand."? Hon NICOLA WILLIS: The Treasury's BIM also said "As a small open economy vulnerable to external shocks and natural disasters New Zealand needs to retain a large buffer for emergencies." What the member should understand is that New Zealand should always have relatively low debt compared to most other advanced economies and it is silly to compare New Zealand's debt with countries like the United States and Japan. That Minister eroded New Zealand's buffer thanks to the big spending of the previous Labour Government. Hon Grant Robertson: Point of order Mr Speaker. That was a very specific question asking about a very specific paragraph in the BIM that the member's primary answer was about and I didn't receive an answer to that question. SPEAKER: Well I don't think you could say it wasn't addressed and I think that's one of the problems isn't it—that often questions are asked that don't elicit the answer that members wanting—Hon Member: It was very specific though. SPEAKER: It wasn't that fine. Hon Grant Robertson: What's that?SPEAKER: It wasn't all of that fine a question—the BIM is quite a lengthy document. Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Point of order Mr Speaker. I am happy to keep reading from the BIM to inform the Minister about how this debt came to be and the structural deficit that he left New Zealand in if he'd like. SPEAKER: Sorry that's not a particularly helpful point of order. Hon Grant Robertson: Can the Minister confirm that the paragraph after the paragraph that I just quoted in my question says in part "the Crown balance sheet continues to have significant resilience and flexibility to respond to future events."? Hon NICOLA WILLIS: The member should read the full quote which also says "Current spending exceeds current revenues. The Treasury estimates much of this gap is structural reflecting a mix of short- and long-term drivers. A substantial fiscal consolidation is required"—and that is what this responsible Government is doing."