Martin TraceyClauses 38 72 and 145(3)TRACEY MARTIN (NZ First): Just with regard to Supplementary Order Paper 306 which is actually about clause 38 which is inside the previous sections there it does deal with communities of online learning. There is a Supplementary Order Paper there in my name that makes some wording changes around new section 35ZJ(3).That is because at the moment the way the bill reads is that the Minister may make grants to communities of online learning and they may be made unconditionally. We find that interesting. That is in new section 35ZJ inserted by clause 38. We find it very interesting that public money would be able to be granted by a Minister—any Minister—unconditionally so there would be no conditions and no accountability on that money. Supplementary Order Paper 306 actually seeks to amend that wording so that there is accountability for any grant made by a Minister to a community of learning inside this piece of legislation.If I can move on to Supplementary Order Paper 298 I ask the Minister whether she would take a call around what I have sought to do here which is to delete from new section 78LD inserted by clause 60 the words and the Minister may also appoint that trustee as the presiding trustee." New Zealand First has no objection at all with regard to the Minister's capacity to as an earlier intervention appoint a trustee to a board of trustees. Many boards of trustees particularly those that find it difficult to get to the School Trustees Association training do need some support from an educational professional or somebody who understands the governance of schools.But we ask Minister Parata why she feels the need to actually designate this person the presiding trustee—the chair. On a board of trustees the chair has no more power than anybody else. They merely coordinate the meeting. They are an equal trustee and have one vote like anybody else on the board of trustees. The difference is that the chair of the board has two major roles. One is the relationship with the principal and so we are interested in why the Minister would need the power to create the presiding trustee and thereby immediately affect that relationship with the principal. It gives us cause for concern and the School Trustees Association also articulated this concern—that this could have a chilling effect on the relationship between the board of trustees and the principal.The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): I am sorry to interrupt the member. We are actually on theme 2 not theme 3. According to my advice it is communities of online learning. So the boards of trustees that you are mentioning come into theme 3 specifically mentioned as boards of trustees and management of schools. So we are actually on theme 2—all right?TRACEY MARTIN: Sorry thank you. So we are talking clauses 38 to 72 and clause 145(3)—thank you very much Mr Chair.So let us switch over to a conversation with regard to Supplementary Order Paper 309. This is in the name of Catherine Delahunty. I would ask the Minister whether she could indicate whether the Government will support this Supplementary Order Paper. It would create a parental advocacy council. This is something that the Ombudsman supported. The Ombudsman supported it because as the Minister will have heard and as those who have been on boards of trustees will know particularly with discipline hearings often there are situations where a child is excluded or expelled and the only avenue of conversation that a parent has after that is actually with the Ombudsman. This can take a very long time—particularly currently with the Ombudsman's workload.The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): I will just interrupt the member again. This is communities of online learning so what you are talking about there is outside the scope of the theme. When we are dealing with themes it is a bit difficult to do it part by part. This is actually a themed debate. I will just ask the member to come back—it is about communities of online learning and specifically covers as I mentioned right at the beginning clauses 38 72 and 145(3).TRACEY MARTIN: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. If you have a look at Supplementary Order Paper 309 it inserts a new clause 38A. So if we are discussing clauses 38 72 and 145(3) this directly impacts this section which is why I am speaking to it. I will leave it there but it creates a new clause 38A inside this area of concern.So if we want to talk about communities of learning clause 38 let us do that. We have two Supplementary Order Papers on the Table Supplementary Order Papers 295 and 296 in my name. These will amend new sections 35T and 35T(1) inserted by clause 38 to remove the opportunity for a body corporate to be created to actually run a community of online learning. While we certainly understand and support what is currently going on inside of New Zealand schools which is the e-learning and the online content that is being delivered—it has been delivered for some time—one of the two reasons that have been given and the Minister could comment further for creating communities of online learning is that Te Aho o Te Kura Pounamu is overloaded. It is well outside the parameters of what was originally intended for Te Kura The Correspondence School so the community of online learning has been suggested. E-learning inside of mainstream face-to-face schools has also been taking place but it has been taking place at a cost on the operations grants and/or transitioning teacher time. What the sector really needs is not to have to compete with bodies corporate or private providers or online charters as some might refer to them as would be created under clause 38. What they need are the parameters by which inside the schooling sector inside the education sector they can formalise communities of online learning. You might put them through the communities of—what are they called now? COOLs COLs—Catherine Delahunty: COLs.TRACEY MARTIN: So you might use those to create a community of online learning and put some funding around it. So what they are looking for is some structure. Interestingly enough schools had some funding for their e-learning platforms up until around about 2010. Then this was removed and they have had to use as I said operations grants and staffing time. I do not have high expectations that the Minister will support my Supplementary Order Papers 295 and 296 but I would ask the Minister to address those three Supplementary Order Papers. What is the Government's view on the creation of a parental advocacy council which could also mediate between parents and schools rather than elevating to too high up into the Ministry of Education or to the Ombudsman who is incredibly overloaded? I will also ask the Minister to comment on Supplementary Order Papers 295 and 296. Why not with the first stage of communities of online learning restrict those to being delivered only by registered schools and Te Kura is a registered school underneath the criteria at the moment and also by current tertiary providers that are State tertiary providers—e.g. New Zealand universities and polytechs—rather than opening it up to private providers at this stage? I would appreciate the Minister's comments.The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): I am just going to make a comment here on Supplementary Order Paper 309 which the member referred to in the name of Catherine Delahunty. This is the parent advocacy council inserting new Part 6. This comes under miscellaneous provisions so is not a part of these themes that we are on at the moment."