Ewen-Street Ian: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ewen-Street Ian: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:606;Page:3990] 
11.  
IAN EWEN-STREET (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Forestry 
: Does he support efforts within New Zealand to develop a Forest Stewardship Council-based national standard for the certification of plantation forests? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Associate Minister of Forestry) 
 on behalf of the  
Minister of Forestry 
: The Government supports efforts within New Zealand to develop a New Zealand-specific International Forest Stewardship Council-based standard for the certification of production forests in New Zealand. The Government considers that this work will improve our market access and the environmental performance of our forest sectors. 
Ian Ewen-Street 
: Why then has the Minister allowed a Sustainable Farming Fund grant of $92139 to the Indigenous Forest Certification Steering Group to be used in part to fund opposition to the development of the New Zealand standard for plantation forests especially as the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry expressly told the steering group that no funding was to be used to influence the process? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The top end of that question is correct but I remind the member that the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry has suspended further funding of the project until it has satisfied itself that no ministry funding is being used in relation to the process complaint that was made by two of the members within the indigenous forest group. 
Mita Ririnui 
: What specific role is the Government playing in the development of the Forest Stewardship Council-based standards for the certification of all forests in New Zealand? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The initiative is a non-Government process. In mid-2001 a hui a get-together was called in Rotorua where a construct of four chambers was developed—social economic environmental and Maori—and out of that there was a standards-setting exercise that was relevant to New Zealand which will be sent back to the international standards-setting board. It is important to say that this initiative is a non-Government process but this Government is supportive of developing it. 
Brian Connell 
: Given that there is conflicting evidence as to whether certification does in fact protect the world’s most vulnerable forests and given that there are 3500 small foresters in New Zealand many of whom say they cannot afford to lock up 8 percent of their plantings as a reserve or to pay up to $3000 for certification—which many feel is just another form of compliance—what course of action does he recommend to those small foresters? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: One of the generic issues around standards-setting in relation to forestry production is that the bottom-end principle is to ensure that our markets overseas are relevant and that we can keep up the supply of timber. It is important that these two groups are put together. That the complaints have come out of one side or the other side is another issue. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before I call the Rt Hon Winston Peters I want to indicate that he is entitled to have his 11th supplementary question today but that means 10 tomorrow. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I might not be here tomorrow. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member can certainly have his 11th one today but that means 10 tomorrow. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Thank you very much. 
Brian Connell 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister a specific question. I asked what course of action he recommends to these small foresters. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am not getting into that now. The Minister addressed the question that was asked. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: In an endeavour to dissect some sense from what the Minister said I ask him to please tell us what a construct is. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: A construct most certainly is a framework of groups that get together to make decisions that hopefully are correct. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I advise members that the  
Oxford Dictionary 
 has about 12 volumes. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Is the Minister aware that the International Forest Stewardship Council praised the operations of Timberlands West Coast and regards it as one of the best examples in the world of sustainable forestry management and therefore why on earth did he and his Government together with the Greens campaign against and close down the operation of Timberlands West Coast? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: That question is a summary of “destruct” from the sound of it. There are certainly issues around the West Coast forestry industry and they have been well dealt with and tested in this country over a period of time. 
Gordon Copeland 
: In terms of the intended certification of plantation forests would a private indigenous forest managed on a sustainable-yield basis come within the definition of a plantation? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: In terms of where the two different organisations are at the moment or the two different sets of construct the indigenous forestry development group which has those partners in it and the plantation forestry group are working in different streams but they are trying to get to the same end point. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave for the Minister to answer that question again. I know we are only simple country boys over here but none of us can understand what he is saying. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is leave granted? It is not. 
Rodney Hide 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question is this— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: This had better be a genuine point of order and not related to my ruling. 
Rodney Hide 
: You didn’t rule. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave was sought and denied. That is the end of the matter. 
Rodney Hide 
: But how can one seek leave for someone else to do something when you have always ruled that members cannot do that? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is why leave was denied. I would have denied it also. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Is that an example of two constructs working together? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am tempted to think about the plural of that word. 
Ian Ewen-Street 
: Did the Minister approve of the manager of the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry’s indigenous forestry unit adding his name to a letter of complaint to the International Forest Stewardship Council board the purpose of which appears to be to undermine the process of establishing a national standard for plantation forests; if not what will he do about it? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: “Construct” can be singular or plural. The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry member on the board— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I could not hear the first part of the Minister’s reply. I want to hear it. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I do not think I will carry on with the first comment; I will just get to the member’s question if that is OK. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Carry on with the answer. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: As the member will recall from earlier discussion the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry member was put on to the board by the Government as a technical adviser to help the process in the sense of developing the standards. That member’s name was placed on the list of complainants without his having any knowledge of that and without any approach being made to him. That is the report back that we got through the Government agency. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Is the Minister aware that when the International Forest Stewardship Council—based in Oaxaca Mexico—first brought out its principles for sustainable forestry management it proposed that plantation and exotic species would not qualify for certification; that being the case is the Minister still convinced that it is an appropriate body to be in charge of certification of New Zealand’s commercial forestry? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: I am not aware of Oaxaca in Mexico; I am aware of Mohaka up the line here where there is forestry. I assure the member that any collective effort to set standards that create better quality for an important export of this country and that consolidate our markets overseas must be good news and must be a good effort. 
Ian Ewen-Street 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a document. It is a letter to the International Forest Stewardship Council seeking to undermine the national certification process. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.