Bayly AndrewANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): Thank you Mr Chair. Now I thought I might look at something new—Shanan Halbert: Oh throw something different in there Bayly. ANDREW BAYLY: Can the member repeat himself? Shanan Halbert: Throw something different in there—new points. ANDREW BAYLY: The member obviously wasn't listening when he asked me to talk about something different—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Could members take their conversations outside if they need to have them. ANDREW BAYLY: —because that's exactly what I'm about to do. The member for Northcote obviously doesn't listen very closely. I want to talk about clause 114 Duties to provide funding and information" and it does slightly relate to what my good colleague Simon Watts here has just been talking about. Here we have these new entities that will have not only co-chairs but co - deputy chairs so it raises in terms of governance structures what is a very very unusual structure. In fact in all my years of commercial dealings I don't think I've ever yet come across an entity a board or suchlike that has co-chairs and co - deputy chairs. Penny Simmonds: It'll get co-leaders too for sure. ANDREW BAYLY: Oh co-leaders too Penny Simmonds has identified. It's unbelievable. It's a very very very complicated structure and of course clause 114—which I know the Chair is reading very closely—relates to the funding of this. This is about how much do you pay these people. So I was just doing some sums there in terms of the cost that this might be and of course we've got the Minister who said that this is all about reducing costs and delivering bigger value. But reducing costs even though I understand that we're going to take on more employees in these four entities certainly at a governance level we will inevitably end up with more people. Now I was just working the numbers. If you assume you that you have a board of 14 and you pay them $30000 that's about $420000. But of course if you have a co-chair—well chairs normally get paid more than $30000 they normally get $50000 so it's $100000 between the two of them. And if you have a co - deputy chair well what would you pay them? I'm looking at my good colleague the Hon Louise Upston and she has a good view on this. I reckon you'd pay them what $45000 $40000 or—I don't know—$80000. So hey just for this one board we're over $500000 and then of course as the Minister who was in the chair before lunchtime was saying "Well of course you're going to have more people on this board if the people on the initial board decide to have more representatives from council." Hey I can see this blowing out to a million bucks eh? Of course the middle one has what 22 councils—22 councils. Well I've heard some very strong arguments from my good colleagues who have said that those people need to be represented on these boards. I subscribe to that view because of course that's what we've heard from the mayors who turned up in places like Hamilton and Nelson to say "We're not getting adequate representation on these entities." and that's right—they're not. But to say "Oh we're going to reduce costs." well I can say that at a governance cost I reckon we're looking at the best part of 3 million bucks because of course clause 114 not only talks about the regional representative group but it talks about the regional advisory panel and we've got lots of those haven't we? Then we've got the board costs which I think are 3 million bucks. So my question to the Minister is: what is the framework for the payments of these what will be paid how will it be determined and will the cost be nearly $3 million? I think that is a pretty good calculation of what the overall cost will be for these entities and so I think that if you look at it that's going to be per entity given the scale of this for each regional advisory board regional representative board and the board itself let along what we're going to pay these CEOs because these CEOs are now going to be based on a payments system that's probably different from what they're getting paid now. Because they're going to be big shots running big entities I've no doubt they're going to be on lots and lots of money right? We're going to see them right at the top of the public sector aren't we—the top of the public sector—in terms of their payment rates."