Ngaro AlfredHon ALFRED NGARO (National): Thank you Mr Chair. I rise to take a stand in this committee stage on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2018-19 Modernising Tax Administration and Remedial Matters) Bill. It probably is the first time I have actually spoken on a tax bill in this House over a period of nearly eight years. I do so though because in Part 2 of this bill it raises a number of questions that I would like to pose to the Minister of Revenue especially in regards to Part 2 clause 77 New section 120VD inserted (Interest on tax credits for charitable or other public benefit gifts)" inserted after section 120VC. It's inserted as new section 120VD "Interest on tax credits for charitable or other public benefit gifts". It says "No interest shall be payable by the Commissioner under section 120D(3) on an amount of tax credit calculated under section LD 1 of the Income Tax Act 2007."I specifically note that and I would like to pose a question to the Minister in regards to this because as I read it and as I understand it if a refund is due to a charity then the IRD won't have to pay interest on the refund. If that's the case then why is it that when we are wanting to support charities—and we enforce the law to ensure that they pay on time but if there is a refund that is due then the fact is that the Inland Revenue Department won't pay interest if they had to hold that payment over a period of time. That's my understanding. I would like to clarify that with the Minister if that's the case. Why is it then that these trusts—and I've also run an NGO myself for nearly 20 years the Tamaki Community Development Trust out in Panmure and Glen Innes so I know what it takes to ensure that when we process our tax through with our accountants if we are late and due in our payments then we get penalised. In that case over a period of time there's interest that's compounding. So in this case I would like to pose a question to the Minister: surely if we're making this amendment could we not then see the need to be more lenient to those in those charitable organisations?We have 27900 registered charitable trusts. We have 114132 not-for-profit organisations in New Zealand. The charities are the backbone of our country. They service something like 44000 hours a day up and down this country. So my question to the Minister: surely it wouldn't be too hard to show a little bit of lenience in this case. Could there be a way in which they could understand if they've had that over a period of time—it could be four maybe six months. In regard to clause 77 the introduction of 120VD could they show some discretion over that period of time where they could actually pay some interest if they've had to hold that amount? If those trusts in their accounting have actually paid the amounts that were due and there is seen to be a discrepancy in that amount—in other words they paid more than what they were due—and now that we've got the Minister in the chair I hope that he's heard the question that I put through which is: could there be some discretion? Sorry Mr Chair—to the Minister. Part 2 clause 77 is the question that I'm posing to the Minister.The feedback that I get from a number of our charities at times is that at the moment it is always difficult and a struggle to be able to make ends meet. Often you're looking at philanthropic funding. You've got contracts that you have there there are charitable organisations and there are donations that are given over that period of time. So they're very frugal in the amounts that they have to deal with and administer throughout their operations and in this clause 77 it's quite particular. So the question again to the Minister who is now here for this bill: if a refund is due to a charity then IRD won't have to pay the interest on the refund—if that's correct I wonder if he could confirm that to me. If that's the case then my question to the Minister: could he show some discretion to that?Now inside of that in this bill—I know that part of the bill will also talk further on in Part 3 but it does mention other charities which deal with this. And then will this also relate to the 32 new charities that also too have an overseas donee status? That's covered in clause 32—I know that's in Part 3 but the question is related to Part 2. That's in regards to the schedule for 32 overseas donee status trusts—the Books for Cambodia trust the Children of the Light Effective Altruism New Zealand Charitable Trust. There are a number of them that are there so I'm wondering whether that could do—[Time expired]"