Mitchell ClaytonCLAYTON MITCHELL (NZ First): I would not say it a great pleasure to stand and have an urgent debate on this particular matter but I think it is a very urgent matter and one worth raising. As we look around the House and we hear the comments that are made right around the House by all parties this is of serious concern and of a serious nature. I guess where the last speaker Jan Logie finished off is where I am going to start off.The reports around the globe and from the OECD have New Zealand as one of the least corrupt countries on the planet—in the world—and the reality is I think we have got a sinister background because this is not an isolated incident. Nobody in their right mind could condone the actions of Joanne Harrison: how she has behaved what she has done and how she has even been enabled to get away with what she has been doing for such a long time. Now she is sitting in jail for 3 years and 7 months and I hope she actually serves those 3 years and 7 months and shows some sort of remorse for the actions that she has taken. It has been self-indulged and she has been looking after her own interests at her behest and to the disadvantage of staff and the reputation of the public sector.But it goes further than just the public sector—although this incident does directly relate to the way that staff members and the people from inside the public sector have been treated. When they have seen an injustice taking place and an advantage given to a person by devious means and a disadvantage given to others who are standing against this sort of—and I will use the word—tyranny but maybe that is not quite the right word it has cost them their livelihood. It has cost them their reputations and it has been a huge dirty smudge—a stain—on their CV despite their standing up proudly for what they believe is the right thing to be doing and pointing the bone at somebody who has been defrauding the public purse. They have lost their jobs for it.Despite what the report has come out and said—that an apology is required and compensation needs to be given to these people—they will always be the ones who have suffered the most because they had done the right thing and there was no protection there for them; there was nowhere that they could go. Joanne Harrison who now is in jail for her actions and other people who were involved in their inaction are moving up the ladder if you like. We have recently seen that Martin Matthews who has been given the auspicious title of Auditor-General is now standing down. He was privy to this information from these people who came forward and he chose to do nothing. In fact he tried to move her around into other positions where she may have been better suited. Ultimately over the 3-year period that she was defrauding the system she actually moved up the chain despite people saying: There's something wrong here. This is not right. Look into it." It was overlooked.So where does the buck actually lie? When do we actually finally say that procedures were not followed?Sue Moroney: The Minister. That's where the buck stops.CLAYTON MITCHELL: I am getting to that. Procedures were not followed and processes were not followed either. Ultimately the Minister has to take responsibility for that; that is the job of the Minister. The buck stops at the top. Martin Matthews certainly does need to take a big proportion of responsibility for that. Ultimately the responsibility will lie with Joanne but it needs to go to the top. Why were these processes and the procedures not followed? How did it get to a point where over a more than 3-year period this was going on under their very noses and we have got to a situation where over $725000 was taken away from hard-working New Zealanders—and I am talking about the tax that they have paid to go into the Ministry of Transport to get better infrastructure—for someone's own personal greed?Ultimately I would like to hear from the Minister as to why he allowed this to go on. He must surely have been aware of the situation and if he was not then why was he not made aware of it? There has got to be some level of ownership from the Minister and anything less than that—well then that Minister has got to have their head buried in the sand.The reality is that the Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier has said that there is insufficient protection for whistleblowers. Even the term "whistleblower" has a connotation where I think even the general public could go: "Well that's not a good term." At school if you ever told on somebody for doing something you were a whistleblower. It is negative. But we have got to turn that negativity into positivity because it is standing up for justice. It is actually standing up to look out for your peers.When we have got a society that we want to be the most incorruptible in the world we actually have to have everybody looking out for everybody else. If we have a breakdown of that—if people get silenced if they get pushed aside if they get too afraid to speak about the truth of what is going on—then you are going to see corruption very very quickly entering into this beautiful country of ours. I am suggesting that this is not an isolated incident. I am suggesting that this sort of thing has been going on and there is a culture of bullying going on in workplaces to silence this sort of behaviour: this honest integrity that people have to do the right thing and to say the right thing. They have been silenced. We need legislation to empower these people to feel that they can comfortably speak up and not be chastised castigated and cast out like these people have been whom we are dealing with here today.The private sector is obviously another area where this goes on. Coming from the private sector and running businesses—and my own businesses—for over 20 years I heroed those staff members who came to me with problems that were happening within my organisation. I held those people in high regard because it was the information that they gave me quietly and in secret that enabled me to find and charge those staff members who were being dishonest who were ripping off my business and me.We need to take that sort of approach where staff and people can approach their bosses their NGO leaders their CEOs—at any time—to say: "I have some serious concerns. This is what I've seen. This is what's going on." If we have taken that away which is exactly what we have seen happen here with these people then we are going to see some serious serious problems in this country moving forward. So I would like to see some urgent attention some legislation brought in to tighten this up to give some security to those people who are doing the right thing. An apology—great—it is a little bit too late. Compensation—absolutely it is essential but they should not have ever got to the situation where compensation was required. They should be put on a pedestal and looked after within the organisation that they have loyally been working in.So New Zealand First does support the urgency of this debate. Thank you to the member for bringing it to the House to be discussed and we would certainly be very supportive of seeing some changes made by the Government despite there being only one month to go—maybe we could prioritise something in this area. Thank you."