Simmonds PennyPENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Thank you Madam Chair. My question relates both to my last question and also to my colleague Simon Watts' question. Minister I'm still trying to get my head around the scale of this and no doubt with your union experience you will be similarly trying to get your head around the scale. So therefore the question I asked last time was very genuine around what sort of time-scale you thought might elapse before the Employment Relations Authority was brought in by the parties to fix terms. I keep looking back to the times of negotiations and having to deal with perhaps 300-odd staff and the length of time it could take to ensure that the feedback had been received and that particularly as negotiations go on and people within the negotiating room feel that they've sort of traversed all the issues but then having to go back and sell it to the constituents of each of the respective parties. I just am really struggling with the sort of time frame that is going to occur here particularly as you've said the new processes the supports the information and the education. I recall one of the submissions actually referred to the amount of money that was put aside in the Budget for it and it seemed a really minor amount in comparison to the numbers that might need to access that support and whether the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment in fact would have the capacity to provide that support. Because we've spent weeks and months going through this but when this finally is thrust upon employers and employees that's when the rubber is going to hit the road and they really will want to know the details of it. So I didn't feel that in your answer to my previous question you gave a real indication of the time frames that we might be looking at for these negotiations to take place but I wonder if you could just give a little bit more thought to that so that when employers and employees are looking at this process they understand. Because I think it would be very unfortunate if they go in thinking Oh negotiations will take place and six months or a year later it might all be done and dusted." when in fact everything in terms of the complexity the newness the scale of this legislation and this intent points to it going on for years and they may be bitterly disappointed with it. I think back to the Tertiary Education Union and how bitterly disappointed they are after three years and the Reform of Vocational Education process and the Te Pūkenga process. So they went in with very high expectations of everything being wonderful and are now realising that it's not nearly as wonderful as they thought.The other part that I wanted to have a wee look at was the effect of the authority fixing the terms. So having gone through the big process everyone's had time to be educated and supported and got the information and maybe it's sort of four years down the track and the negotiations have hit an impasse and most of the employers and employees have forgotten that the process even started back four years ago—although hopefully this won't happen because we'll come in and repeal the legislation. However hypothetically looking at this four years down the track the authority is fixing the terms. And they aren't required obviously to submit to the authority for a compliance assessment but they must be assessed for coverage overlap under clause 135(2). So I look back to clause 135(2) and the assessment for coverage overlap is done by the authority so the authority will fix the terms and then the authority will assess the terms the authority has fixed to see whether there is coverage overlap. What's the check and balance around that if the authority's actually setting fixing the terms and then doing the assessment as well?"