Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Peters Winston: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:616;Page:11713] 
6.  
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: Is he confident that no potential terrorists have been granted New Zealand residency or citizenship since the year 2000? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 I am advised that current immigration policy and procedures provide rigorous checks on character and background for all people applying for residence. I am also advised that the Director of Security has not made a recommendation for revoking permanent residence since the year 2000. However as the director of the Security Intelligence Service has said neither he nor anyone else will ever be able to guarantee that New Zealand will never be the victim or the source of an act of terrorism. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why were the three foreigners who were turned down for citizenship and described by Security Intelligence Service head Richard Woods as “clearly individuals of security concern” allowed to gain residence in New Zealand; and why on earth are they being allowed to stay here in this country? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: As to the reason the member should go directly to the head of the Security Intelligence Service. As far as citizenship is concerned that is a matter for my colleague. As far as residence is concerned I have asked for a report from officials on the cases that have been raised to see whether in fact there are any outstanding matters that we need to consider. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. We have a problem here. That Minister and the staff in his department are in charge of immigration and the various applications of people who come to this country. To ask me to go to the head of the Security Intelligence Service is simply wrong. As the Minister he surely must know for the simple reason that he would be privy to information himself as his department must be now. He must know what the answer is and he should be required to answer me in this House. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The member asked for the reasons why the director declined citizenship. That is not something that is part of my responsibility as Minister of Immigration. That is for the Minister of Internal Affairs. The responsibility for citizenship and passports is not the responsibility of the Minister of Immigration which is the point I was trying to make to that member. My responsibility is around residency which is why I answered as I did the second part of the question. The member asked about residency which is an immigration issue. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Taking the point of order further I asked him how those people gained residency which is a responsibility that he as a Minister has. If he had fulfilled that responsibility properly he would know about the other information which he surely should have been privy to before any grant of residency was given. 
Keith Locke 
: The Security Intelligence Service has a recommendatory role to the Minister of Immigration. It does not make any decisions itself. So the Minister should be at least in receipt of the recommendation or the content of it and be able to comment on that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: If the Minister had been asked whether he had been advised by the Security Intelligence Service then he could answer that question if he wished to do so. That is a perfectly legitimate question. When I heard the Minister’s reply to the member’s question I regarded the first part as not strictly an answer to the question. In the second part of the answer in which he said he was investigating the matter and had asked for a report he addressed that part of the question. 
Lynne Pillay 
: What checks are undertaken when any person applies for residence in New Zealand? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: All persons applying for New Zealand residence have undergone a number of screening processes for health and character. Where the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service has concerns about an applicant it has the ability to comment on the person’s application. However the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service may at no stage recommend that the permanent resident status of cases such as those that are being mentioned at the moment should be reviewed or revoked. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: Will the Minister following this investigation consider revoking the residency of the three people who in the words of the director are a security concern and could be using New Zealand as a “safe haven” to “lie low” given the enormous risks of international terrorism? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: There are two ways that revocation could be considered. The first is on direct advice from the Director of Security. I have spoken to him today and he has advised that he is not making a recommendation of revocation. The second matter might be whether in fact people have given false information as part of their residency application. That is part of the reason we are investigating the applications that were made for residency. 
Keith Locke 
: How will the Minister assure us that in these three cases the SIS is not acting as political police and restricting the democratic right of well-settled law-abiding refugees to get a passport and travel overseas to promote democracy in their original homeland even if a particularly repressive Government such as the Algerian Government gets upset about this and puts some pressure on the New Zealand Government? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister cannot answer the question in terms of the SIS because he is not the Minister concerned. He can answer it in terms of his own portfolio if he wishes to comment. 
Keith Locke 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Can I rephrase that question? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member had quite a good opportunity to put his question. I am pretty generous with the member. If the question is very brief and to the point he can do it. This is one exception that I am making. 
Keith Locke 
: Can the Minister assure us on the basis of the information he has received from the SIS on these three cases— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That is it. The member has asked a question and the Minister can answer that part of the question. 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The only information I have had from the director of the SIS is his recommendation that the residency applications not be revoked. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: What advice can the Minister give the House regarding the possibility that there may be other people in New Zealand who have previously been the subject of such a recommendation from the director which has not been acted upon by the Minister of Internal Affairs at the time and who may hold permanent residence in New Zealand notwithstanding the fact that applications for citizenship have been revoked; is he acting on those cases as well? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: The first point I want to repeat is that citizenship is not the responsibility of the Minister of Immigration. The only point that I can advance relating to residency status is that there has been no request for revocation from the Security Intelligence Service since the year 2000 which was the time of the member’s question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Why has the Minister not read  
New Zealand: The Right Choice 
 an Immigration Service administration document that I am holding? Chapter 5.5 sets out what his responsibility as Minister is with regard to security matters; in that light does he have confidence in the system of the New Zealand Immigration Service given that the head of the SIS has publicly identified New Zealand as a potential safe haven for terrorists; and given that he has only four staff involved in investigating immigration fraud and corruption how can he give us an assurance that in New Zealand we are safe? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: There are a number of questions in there. But can I repeat what the director of the SIS says which is that he can give no guarantee and nor can anyone else that we will not be the victims of terrorism because that is the way of things at the moment. But we do our very very best to keep New Zealand and New Zealanders safe and secure.