Alexander Marc: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Alexander Marc: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:614;Page:10654] 
1. MARC ALEXANDER (United Future) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: Does he concede that the justice system totally failed to protect Coral Burrows from Steven Williams in light of the fact that he was repeatedly granted bail after a criminal career of 88 convictions and the claim by former police detective Don Finlayson that: “He should have been locked up over the last 18 months. If he had been in jail where he belonged she would still be alive. It was an avoidable death.”? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL (Acting Minister of Justice) 
: 
 The blame for that appalling and tragic crime must be placed firmly where it belongs which is at the feet of Steven Williams who has now been convicted of murder. Bail is a longstanding practice in all Western justice systems. The circumstances in which there is a presumption not to grant bail were extended in 2000. However decisions on bail in specific cases are matters for the court. 
Marc Alexander 
: In light of the fact that after a long history of offending Steven Williams was granted bail after committing serious drug offences did three burglaries while on bail was somehow granted bail again for those crimes then threatened to kill a 16-year-old while on bail for the burglaries and then got bail for a charge of threatening to kill how can the Minister stand by his claim in 2000 that the Government’s new Bail Act provisions would target hard-core recidivists when the same laws failed to put Williams away four times over? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: My advice was that on 26 July 2003 section 12 of the new Bail Act was invoked and there was a reverse onus where he did have to establish his right to bail. It was not granted automatically so bail was granted by the court. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Is not this case further evidence of this Government’s soft-on-crime policies that do not work when Steven Williams a man with 88 serious criminal convictions including violence drug dealing intimidation and threatening to kill gets bail breaches that bail and then gets bail again? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I reject the fact that we should be using a case as tragic as this for political purposes. 
Ron Mark 
: Is it not a fact that despite all the vein-popping speeches the Minister gave during 9 years of Opposition when she criticised successive Governments for the inappropriate use of bail Steven Williams was freed on bail on four occasions on her watch and that as heinous as the murder of wee Coral Burrows is in 2 weeks’ time when politicians have had their say and the media have moved on to another story Coral will simply be consigned to the history books alongside 3-year-old Anahera Ross Lewis who was tortured and punched to death— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The question is far too long. The member may have about three more words. 
Ron Mark 
: Is it not a fact that we can expect no changes from this Government and all we are simply waiting for in 10 months’ time is another such murder? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The bail laws were changed in the year 2000 which did lead to a reverse in the onus of proof being applied in this particular case. The matter of bail is a matter for the court. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am a bit concerned about your ruling that Mr Mark was taking too long over his question. Often Ministers in this House say that in order to give a full explanation in answer to a question they need to take some extra time. This is an extremely serious matter. It is on the front page of all newspapers today. It was leading news on television last night. I suspect that it will consume the nation over the next couple of weeks. I think it is only fair that the people asking questions have a reasonable amount of time to put more in the question than might be normal. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No. If the member had rung me before question time and told me he had a longer question to ask then as always I would have advised the House of that and allowed it. I do the same if a Minister says an answer will be longer. I advise that too. However there is a courtesy in letting me know about those things. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am left with a niggling feeling and I would like some assurance from you. Subsequent to the Minister trying to avoid the question by pointing out that we should not be asking questions about such a horrendous and heinous crime leaving us with the view that she would rather not answer questions that are embarrassing and using Coral as an excuse for that subsequently you did shorten my question. If I were to do a word count and no doubt your staff could about the length of my question compared with some other members’ questions in this House I am just a little worried that I might not have been treated as fairly as others. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No the member has been treated very very fairly in this House. 
Deborah Coddington 
: Does the Minister agree that we are relying too much on Governments for the safety of children and not taking enough personal responsibility as parents families and communities as expressed by the Hon John Tamihere; if not why not? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I personally believe that there is a collective responsibility. We are all responsible for the children of this country. 
Marc Alexander 
: In light of the fact that the police viewed Steven Williams as a volatile time bomb with countless convictions for violence drug dealing abuse intimidation drink-driving and threatening to kill a 16-year-old why did neither justice nor child protection agencies think to question whether he should be living in a family with young children? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I am not sure whether that matter was actually referred by those agencies to the child protection agencies. What I am sure of though is that the police taking all those matters into account did oppose bail. The tragedy of this particular case would suggest that even if Steven Williams had not been granted bail Coral’s death may still have occurred but at a later date. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why is it Government policy that a man with a violent criminal record should be permitted home detention at an address with two young children when it was today revealed that Steven Williams was not allowed near his own children and was not allowed near his sister’s children because he is reported to have attacked one of them; and why did this Government’s system allow that man home detention at Coral Burrows’ home? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I am not sure which particular provisions of the law provided for the home detention in this particular case but it was not for a serious violent offence in fact. 
Marc Alexander 
: Noting that Williams’ spell of home detention for cannabis offences did nothing to deter him from drugs or stop him from progressing to the supply of and the use of pure methamphetamine does the Minister agree that home detention is a ridiculous sentence for a drug addict; and had the matter been addressed earlier would it not conceivably have saved Coral Burrows’ life? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I am not aware of the evidence in respect of the possession and cultivation of cannabis and the moving on to the highly dangerous drug P. In this particular case I suspect that the tragedy is that it was going to happen anyway; it was just a matter of time. I think that what we should all do as a Parliament is try to learn the lessons of it to prevent such a tragedy from ever happening again.rather than try to apportion blame. 
Ron Mark 
: Is the Minister saying that even if Steven Williams had been in jail she believes that wee Coral would have been killed anyway; and what information does she now have that she could share with the House to enlighten us all as to what brought her to that conclusion contrary to what Don Finlayson was saying? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: What I said was that the tragedy may well still have occurred later on once he was released from jail. This man seemed to be on a trajectory starting with offences that go back into the 1990s. Everyone can look at himself or herself on this particular case. There is no point trying to apportion blame now. We must try to stop it from ever happening again.