Chauvel Charles: Legal Services Bill — In Committee 
Chauvel Charles: Legal Services Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:671;Page:17676] 
CHARLES CHAUVEL (Labour) 
: 
 I will start with Subpart 1 of Part 3 of the Legal Services Bill which transfers the administration of publicly funded legal services from the Legal Services Agency to the Ministry of Justice and goes on to provide that the Secretary for Justice will be responsible for establishing and delivering legal services. I note that clause 68 sets out the functions of the secretary including assessing and determining the need for legal services by people of insufficient means. Clearly it is of concern to members on this side of the Chamber that there are reports so many people are having difficulty accessing legal aid or legal services that they have to consider representing themselves. I am concerned there is an idea that more legal aid payments are being made which seems directly related to the increase in both summary and indictable charges rather than the misconstrued idea that lawyers have somehow been gaming the system. I welcome the presence of the Minister in the chair Simon Power; the last time I was able to participate in the Committee stage of the bill we had another member of the executive sitting in his place and I think some of those issues need to be the subject of reassurances. 
The Secretary for Justice will have the flexibility to establish different legal services and different methods for delivering those services. The secretary will be able to determine which method of delivery is most suitable in a given situation whether by salaried lawyers as part of a public defender service private lawyers funded by legal aid or services provided by community law centres. Obviously that flexibility if it operates well is to be welcomed but there are some concerns about clause 68. I would like the Minister to consider taking a call to let us know his views on whether we are giving too much power to the executive and in particular to the secretary. The Minister will know that that concern was raised by the Law Society in this process. I think also it would be useful to hear from the Minister how the actual need for legal services and representation will be determined by the secretary and whether the issue of how community law centres are to be resourced on an ongoing basis is going to be front and centre in the mind of the secretary when he or she takes on this function. 
I am also very interested to hear the Minister’s view on why there does not appear to be any obligation to consult with anyone or any group when determining the allocation of legal services. Surely a statutory obligation of consultation which appears to exist under the current scheme would encourage better outcomes. I note that the departmental report which was considered by the Justice and Electoral Committee states that good administrative practice indicates that that consultation will occur. If that is the case it would be useful to hear from the Minister why we do not just codify the requirement so that we are assured it will occur rather than just fall by the wayside. 
The other matter worth drawing to the Committee’s attention is the insertion by the select committee of new paragraph 68(fa) which states that the secretary must “undertake or fund law-related research and education;” which was asked for by submitters to the select committee. If that is going to occur then how does it gel with the funding gap which the Minister has pointed to real concerns about? I think the figure we heard was $400 million in years to come. The Minister is nodding his head so obviously this matter has been thought about. We want to hear from the Minister about how we are going to reconcile what he says is a major funding gap coming up in the out-years in particular with the obligation that the secretary is to undertake or fund law-related research and education. On those points it would be helpful to hear the Minister’s views. 
I come to the rest of Part 3. Clause 69 empowers the secretary to contract with lawyers and law firms to undertake legal aid work. Presumably that provision exists to allow for providers in remote areas where there is not a good service in a particular area of speciality to assist with those who cannot afford to pay for their own lawyer. Clause 70 establishes the office of the Legal Services Commissioner. On clause 69 and the interplay with the clauses that follow I am interested in knowing whether the Minister has considered restricting the percentage of legal aid work that a lawyer or a law firm can do instead of leaving open the position so that all of the work a contracted law firm might end up doing is legal aid and whether he thinks that would be a desirable situation in any particular case. Obviously from the Minister’s facial expressions he has seriously considered that matter too so it would be helpful for the Committee to hear from him on that issue. 
On the issue of the Legal Services Commissioner we have as was said in previous contributions in the debate a move from an independent entity into the core executive. The Legal Services Commissioner within the Ministry of Justice will be responsible for the granting of legal aid the determination of legal aid payments and assigning and managing legal aid lawyers. Those were all formerly functions of a Crown agency the Legal Services Agency which will be disestablished by clause 117. Part of the work of the commissioner will be independent but also much of it will be carried out by the staff of the ministry under this legislation and that will not be done independently. So I think we need to hear from the Minister what guarantees are in place for the independence of the role of the commissioner and in particular the staff employed by the secretary but who are under the effective management or direction of the commissioner. 
I also have some concerns about Subpart 2 of Part 3 but I propose to leave those matters to later in the debate if I have the opportunity to take another call because I think it would be good to hear from the Minister on the other matters I have raised.