edithatogo/nz-hansard-corpus huggingface dataset:
Smith Lockwood: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Smith Lockwood: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17301] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member makes a further very good point. I ask the interpreters to make sure that they make clear when interpreting a vote what has been said so that the Chair is aware if the Speaker’s ruling has been breached. I realise I am taking a very strong position on this issue but I feel that votes in this House are too important to be played around with. The member is quite right that the Chair must be aware when the Speaker’s ruling is breached and if the Chair does not understand Maori sufficiently—and I certainly accept I do not—to judge that then I expect the interpreters to make it clear in their interpretation. This matter is too important to be played around with. I make it clear to members that if they breach that Speaker’s ruling then they cannot expect their vote to be counted.
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17301] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Before you do that I think we are still left with a problem. The problem is that when a member voting in Maori does not comply at the moment the interpreter is not indicating that to the Chair and the Clerk.
Smith Lockwood: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Smith Lockwood: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17300] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not believe I need any further assistance on this matter; I have heard from three members. This is an important issue. The casting of votes in this House is a very very important issue. I am pleased to make a ruling on the matter. 
To me the issue is not so much interpretation; it is how members cast their votes. The Speaker’s ruling is very clear on how votes are to be cast. The Chair of the Committee of the whole House and the Hon Trevor Mallard have both referred to Speaker’s ruling 67/7 which points out that in the casting of a party vote “No other comment at all is allowed.” So to me it is not a matter of interpretation. The interpreters do their best to give us the meaning of what is said in Maori. The responsibility must be on members to comply with that Speaker’s ruling. 
I add to that Speaker’s ruling and make it very clear that if it is breached in the future then the vote will not be counted. I make that very clear. The responsibility is on members to comply with that Speaker’s ruling. If they make other comments in their vote then they have not complied with that Speaker’s ruling and it will not be a matter for the interpreter to decide what the members meant; their vote will not be counted. So the responsibility is on all members to comply correctly. Voting is too important to be fooled around with. With that I declare the House—
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17300] 
Hon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Whip—ACT) 
: 
 I am speaking in support of Mr Mallard’s motion to call you back to the House Mr Speaker. In actual fact I first raised this issue. I challenged the Chair on whether the role of the interpreter was to interpret what was said or to give what the interpreter thought the Chair wanted to hear. I challenged the Chair on three occasions and on the third occasion I was forcefully asked by the Chair to sit down. I called you back to the House last night Mr Speaker and I realised that it is a pretty tall order to do that. I accepted finally on the third occasion and I sat down. But I was very pleased that Mr Mallard who is more experienced than me had the guts to recall you to the chair—something I did not do myself. 
Kelvin Davis 
: Speaking to the point of order—
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17299] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: You are trifling with the Chair. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: No Mr Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: You are trifling with the Chair. I have already ruled. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: This is a new point of order. Are you indicating to the Committee that it is permissible to be out of order in Maori but not in English? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The interpreter’s role here is just to announce the result. We got the result: it was 42 votes opposed for Labour. That is what has been recorded and that is what was announced. We will now move on to Hilary Calvert’s amendment to clause 18(3) as set out on Supplementary Order Paper— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Point of order— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I am not entertaining any further—
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17351] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The next amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert is to clause 64(3). This is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 213 in the name of Metiria Turei to omit new clause 64C set out on Supplementary Order Paper 207 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson be agreed to.
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17298] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. On that occasion to test our system I voted with additional material. I just wanted to check whether the interpretation included that additional material. If it did it should have been corrected at the time. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The interpreter’s job is to tell us what the vote is. I got the vote and that is what was recorded. We have announced the votes.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17298] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 67 
New Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 4; United Future 1. 
Noes 53 
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 67 Noes 54.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17298] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 5 
ACT New Zealand 5. 
Noes 115 
New Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 5 Noes 116. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 207 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to clause 18(3) be agreed to.
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17298] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I think we have what could become a serious issue. That Speakers’ ruling is well known. I think it relates to interpretation of long passages. Hansard reporters are very kind and do some tidying up for us; they put down what we meant to say if there are minor errors in our speeches. I am nearly at the point. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Please come to the point of order. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The point is that it appears that the interpreter is tidying up for and bringing within the Standing Orders the comments of a member who is clearly outside of the Standing Orders. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I asked the member in all good faith. The member’s word was taken that he voted against. I put that question to him and he said he voted against. I have taken the member at his word. That is the end of the matter. Let us move on. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 18(2) be agreed to.
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17297] 
Hon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Whip—ACT) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I am very sorry but it seems to me that Hone Harawira was using the word “family” or “whanau” but the official translation did not say that. How can we be satisfied that the official translation is actually correct?
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17297] 
Hon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Whip—ACT) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. With the deepest of respect you say you are getting a translation but is it a correct translation? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I have just asked the member to confirm the vote he cast. He confirmed it to the Committee—end of story. I put that question to him. It is all over. He said that what he cast was the correct vote and that is the interpretation we got. We are now moving on. I do not want to enter on any further discussion on this matter.
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Boscawen John: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17297] 
Hon JOHN BOSCAWEN (Whip—ACT) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I would like to raise two separate issues. Members may wish to speak on either one or both of the issues and you may need to rule on both of the issues. For the sake of convenience I will speak on both issues at the same time. My understanding from listening to the discussion of the last 10 minutes is that Mr Mallard stood up to say that he has been getting a literal translation presumably from Mr Parekura— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Come to the point of order. This is not a debate. I want to hear the point of order specifically not a debate. 
Hon JOHN BOSCAWEN 
: It seems to me that what has happened in this Chamber is that Mr Horomia has been providing a translation that is different from the official translation— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: That is not a point of order. We get an interpretation here. That is what the Clerks at the Table do. I have asked the member to confirm the vote he was given and he has confirmed it—end of story. We are moving on.
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17297] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 Can I finish this one? You have indicated that the member has the ability to listen to the translation. It is in fact very hard to stand up with these earpieces in; the earpieces are set up so that people sitting down can hear them. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: Right. I will ask the member to confirm that he was voting against with one vote. Is he confirming that? 
Hone Harawira 
: I do confirm. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: On both occasions? 
Hone Harawira 
: On all occasions.
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17297] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: No but we cast the votes here; we know what the votes were. I hear what you are saying. My position as I said earlier is that the intent was known and that is what I ruled on earlier. The member if he wishes has the opportunity to hear what the translation is; it is a matter of his discretion whether he wishes to avail himself of it. At this stage that is where the matter lies. Did the Hon John Boscawen have a point of order?
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17296] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I apologise to the Committee. There is in fact a Speaker’s ruling. I refer members to Speaker’s ruling 67/7: “On a party vote the Clerk names the party by its official name and the whip responsible for voting then gives the vote. No other comment at all is allowed.” That is the ruling. I trust that it satisfies the member who brought the matter to our attention. There is a Speaker’s ruling and I refer to it again: it is Speaker’s ruling 67/7. I ask the member that in casting future votes he complies with the Speaker’s ruling that I have outlined.
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17296] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. The problem I have is that although the general direction is probably clear I do not think that it is absolute. Again I have colleagues translating for me on both sides and they are saying that effectively the member said that his family is opposed to this particular measure. Is that roughly it? Yes. Mr Flavell was offended by the inclusion of the word “family”; he brought up the issue on that basis. My view is that there are occasions on which I as a member of Parliament cast votes in ways that are different from what my family thinks on particular issues. I think it is important—in fact it is vital—that we get a clear indication from the member of what his view is.
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17296] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
:I thank the member for those comments. We have not come across this situation before. I am saying that in the absence of any Standing Order or Speaker’s ruling if the intent is clear and we know the number of votes being cast then that is acceptable to the Chair and we will leave it at that at this point.
Flavell Te Ururoa: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17296] 
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
: 
 He take whakatau e te Heamana. Pai tera whakamarama. He ahua rere ke te korero a te Hon Trevor Mallard. Kare oku raruraru ki te korero o te mema o te Nota me tana ki mai kei te whakaae toku wairua kei te whakahe ranei toku wairua. Kare au i te whakahe i te korero kei te whakaae toku mana kei te whakahe ranei toku mana. Engari ko te rereketanga i tera poti ko te korero whanau. Ka ki mai te mema kare toku whanau i te tautoko. No reira ehara i te mea nona tera whakaaro no tona whanau ke. Koi na te tikanga o taku whakahe. 
[ 
I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. The point made by the Hon Trevor Mallard is slightly different. I do not have a problem when the member for Te Tai Tokerau says he is in favour spiritually or opposes it spiritually. Or if he says that his integrity is in favour or against it. But where that vote differs is when it refers to family. The member said to us “My family opposes it.” But that is not his point of view; it is actually theirs. And that is the reason for my point of order 
.]
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17296] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I hear the member. I have sought advice on this matter. Nothing in the Standing Orders or in Speakers’ rulings describes the way in which members should cast their votes. As I said if the intent is clear and the number is mentioned as being opposed—which it was—then that is acceptable to the Chair. The matter rests there. I take on board the point of order the member Te Ururoa Flavell raised but in the absence of any Standing Order or any Speaker’s ruling I have ruled that if the intent is clear and if one knows exactly what the member is saying in casting a vote the Chair will accept it.
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17295] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I think I can understand the second time the member did it; it was I think slightly different from the first. What he effectively said in a rough translation was “This is the view of my family.” rather than indicating a specific vote in a particular direction. As to your comments Mr Chairman that as long as you know the intent then that is OK I think if you look at that you will find that it would not work very well. I could make a speech about how my friends—I am an old member of the engineers union and the Wainuiomata rugby club and I have friends on Facebook—all have a particular view on this legislation. But I do not think you would be any wiser about which way I was voting and I think that if members were making speeches instead of voting it would take a long time.
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17295] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I hear the member. Certainly the interpretation that came through to the Clerk was a vote against. In answer to the member’s question about whether someone casting a vote can do so in a manner that is not necessarily the way we normally do it I would say that if the intent is clear then the intent is the guiding factor—one can determine what the intent is. As to what the member’s view was in this matter I am seeking advice at this time because I do not— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Can I say something? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I invite the member to state a position.
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17312] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: We now have amendments to clause 45(4). These are out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision to omit and substitute this subclause. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 45(5)(c) be agreed to. 
Amendment not agreed to.
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Mallard Trevor: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17295] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 Although I was not wearing the earpiece I was getting a translation of the speech which I think could well have been different from the interpreter’s translation that was coming through the earpiece to the Clerk. There is in my mind no doubt that not only that vote but at least one earlier vote was cast in a way that could only be considered irregular. I waited until the end because we know we are not allowed to interrupt during the declaring of votes but now that a point of order has been raised I think it is appropriate to agree with the member. I think that now we probably have to clarify the earlier votes of the member because as Mr Flavell has pretty clearly put it he has not voted Aye or No; he has basically said what his mother thinks.
Flavell Te Ururoa: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Flavell Te Ururoa: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17295] 
TE URUROA FLAVELL (Maori Party—Waiariki) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Kua rongo ake i te ahuatanga o te korero o te mema o Te Tai Tokerau. Ko tana korero kei te whakaae te whanau. Ko te whanau ano te whanau ko te mema Paremata ano te mema Paremata. Ko te tikanga ka riro mana tonu e poti mona ana. No reira koi nei te tikanga o taku korero hei wananga mau. 
[ 
I heard what the member for Te Tai Tokerau said. He said that the family agrees. “Whanau” is family and “mema Paremata” is member of Parliament. According to procedure he must cast his vote for himself alone as he is a member of Parliament. So that is the nub of my point of order for you to rule on 
.]
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17295] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 5 
ACT New Zealand 5. 
Noes 115 
New Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 5 Noes 116.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17294] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 5 
ACT New Zealand 5. 
Noes 115 
New Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 5 Noes 116. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 17(4) as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 is out of order. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 18(1) be agreed to.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17294] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 62 
New Zealand National 57; Maori Party 4; United Future 1. 
Noes 58 
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 62 Noes 59. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 16 as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision to omit clause 16. 
The amendments in the name of Hilary Calvert to clauses 17(1) and 17(2) are ruled out of order as not being serious amendments because they do not alter the meaning of the bill. The amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 17(2) to omit “natural condition” and substitute “natural state” as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 is ruled out of order as not being a serious amendment because it does not alter the meaning of the bill. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 17(2) to omit “favour of the Crown” and substitute “favour of the Crown for the benefit of all New Zealanders” be agreed to.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17294] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 67 
New Zealand National 57; ACT New Zealand 5; Maori Party 4; United Future 1. 
Noes 53 
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 67 Noes 54. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 15 as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision to omit clause 15. 
The typescript amendment in the name of the Hon David Parker to insert new clause 15A is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision to insert new clause 4B in Part 1. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 207 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to clause 16 be agreed to.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17293] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 62 
New Zealand National 57; Maori Party 4; United Future 1. 
Noes 58 
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 62 Noes 59. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: I remind members that when votes are taken there needs to be silence. I ask members to respect that please. 
The amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 13 as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 is ruled out of order as being inconsistent with the previous decision to omit clause 13. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 207 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to clause 15 be agreed to.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17293] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 5 
ACT New Zealand 5. 
Noes 115 
New Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 5 Noes 116. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 12(4) as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 is ruled out of order. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 207 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to clause 13 be agreed to.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17293] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 5 
ACT New Zealand 5. 
Noes 115 
New Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 8; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 5 Noes 116. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 12(3) be agreed to.
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17345] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The next amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to omit clause 57 as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 217 is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 217 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 58(1) to omit “impose controls including any terms conditions or restrictions that the Minister thinks fit on the exercise of the rights.” and substitute “revoke the protected customary right” be agreed to.
King Colin: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
King Colin: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17289] 
COLIN KING (National—Kaikoura) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Mallard Trevor: General Debate 
Mallard Trevor: General Debate 
[Volume:670;Page:17273] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Just one further point. I think you referred to the general debate as a relatively recent innovation. I think I can remember it being here since 1986. It might in the time of Parliament be something that is relatively recent but I think that in our experience it is probably not really. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I have just been told by the Clerk of the House that it was 1984—forgive me; I obviously would rather think it was— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Oh so Parliament has been around for a long time so it is “relatively recently”. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I accept the honourable member’s correction there and I stand corrected.
Upston Louise: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Upston Louise: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17287] 
LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupo) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Tremain Chris: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tremain Chris: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17285] 
CHRIS TREMAIN (Senior Whip—National) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Roy Eric: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Roy Eric: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17314] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy) 
: Before we commence the debate on Part 3 two votes need to be amended because they were incorrectly announced. I will just run through those now. The vote on the question to amend the definition of “mana tuku iho” in clause 7 was announced as Ayes 47 and Noes 73. The correct result was Ayes 5 and Noes 115. The vote on the question to omit the words from the definition of “planning document” in clause 7 was announced as Ayes 47 and Noes 73. The correct result is Ayes 5 and Noes 115. The record in each case will be corrected. No outcome was changed.
Roy Eric: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Roy Eric: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17373] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy) 
: Hilary Calvert’s amendment to omit the heading to clause 88 as set out on Supplementary Order Paper 218 is now out of order. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 218 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 88 to omit “group” and substitute “group or wahi tapu group” be agreed to.
Auchinvole Chris: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Auchinvole Chris: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17283] 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National—West Coast - Tasman) 
: 
 I move  
That the question be now put 
.
Beaumont Carol: General Debate 
Beaumont Carol: General Debate 
[Volume:670;Page:17280] 
CAROL BEAUMONT (Labour) 
: 
 I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct my speech. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought for the member to make a personal explanation. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
CAROL BEAUMONT 
: I said in my speech that I work in the Maungakiekie electorate. I then went on to refer to an electorate office. I should have said my out-of-Parliament office. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: With that personal explanation the matter must rest there. 
The debate having concluded the motion lapsed.
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17312] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: We now have an amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 44(6) to substitute “Minister for Land Information”. This is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. The next amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert is to clause 45(2) to substitute “Minister for Land Information”. This amendment is out of order as being inconsistent with a previous decision of the Committee. Hilary Calvert’s amendments to clause 45(2) to substitute or reorder words that do not alter the meaning of the provision are also out of order. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 45(2) to omit “the Crown” and substitute “the Crown within 21 days of being incurred” be agreed to. 
Amendment not agreed to.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17352] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 59 
New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; ACT New Zealand 5; Progressive 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira 
Noes 62 
New Zealand National 57; Maori Party 4; United Future 1. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 217 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 65(8) to omit “Conservation” and substitute “Justice” be agreed to.
Smith Lockwood: General Debate 
Smith Lockwood: General Debate 
[Volume:670;Page:17279] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before I call the next honourable member I take this opportunity to remind all members in the House that members can use certain descriptors but they cannot claim to be an electorate member when they are a list member. I alert members to that. It is becoming an increasing problem that I am having to deal with and I will have to deal with it. Members cannot refer to themselves as being a member for an electorate when they are not.
Mallard Trevor: General Debate 
Mallard Trevor: General Debate 
[Volume:670;Page:17272] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Again this is without rancour and it is a “let us get the rules established” type of point of order. Still to come in the debate obviously is everything of substance other than Part 1 and we also have from my understanding a title clause and a commencement clause. I was listening to the member and relying on the translation but I could not identify anything he referred to that could not have been part of the bill. I accept that he was responding initially to the comments that Hone Harawira made yesterday but the points of substance he was making actually referred to details in the bill and the focus of the bill to which we have not yet got. I think this ruling is effectively a rule change. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I realise that the member wants to clarify the Standing Order in this area but I invite him to reflect on the whole development of the general debate and of the origins of this Standing Order. He being a longstanding member will reflect that the general debate is a relatively recent innovation and I think that around the general debate there is a lot of laxity if you like in terms of what members can address. But I think that the member speaking when he got to his feet said specifically that he wanted to cover issues address issues that had been raised in the debate yesterday and as Speaker I cannot determine which part of the legislation he is referring to. Some of these issues if they were covered yesterday one presumes may be related to the preamble and to Part 1 of that relevant legislation. Certainly nothing in Standing Order 109 prevents a member during this general debate from going over material that was covered yesterday. 
All I ask members is just to be mindful of the points that the Hon Trevor Mallard has made—that our Standing Orders do as a matter of principle preclude anticipating debate. Therefore were the member to have been focused particularly on issues still to come up in the Committee of the whole House then I would have had a serious concern about the matter. So I accept that the member’s point of order is well made and well founded but I think that under these particular circumstances it would have been unreasonable of me to rule Te Ururoa Flavell’s speech out of order when in his opinion he was specifically referring to issues that had been covered yesterday and therefore was not anticipating. Although I accept what the member is saying—that some of these issues may yet again come before the House during the third reading and the title and commencement debates etc.—I think it would be unreasonable for me to be too pedantic in that area. I think the general principle is important but I think that the member was reasonable in referring to issues covered yesterday.
Mallard Trevor: General Debate 
Mallard Trevor: General Debate 
[Volume:670;Page:17271] 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Yes it relates to the point of order I had previously; notwithstanding the fact that I had worked it out about a minute later I thought it was probably appropriate and polite to let the member who was speaking finish. But I submit to you Mr Speaker that Standing Order 109 is absolutely clear and if that is not clear enough then pages 185 and 186 of  
McGee 
 make it very clear that unless you are of the judgment that a matter will not be got to then it cannot be anticipated in earlier debate. I know that I have been told off by previous Speakers for anticipating debate during a general debate. Although we know that a general debate is wide-ranging the fact that it is wide-ranging cannot overrule the Standing Orders which make it clear that a member may not anticipate discussion of any general business—or in this case an order of the day. The bill is Government order of the day No. 1 and unless you know something that I do not know Mr Speaker I am anticipating that we will get to that within the next hour. 
Te Ururoa Flavell 
: Speaking to the point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not think I need further assistance on the matter; I thank the honourable member. I accept the points the Hon Trevor Mallard is making—that specific debate around a matter on the Order Paper that is to come before the House later on should not be allowed. Indeed Standing Order 109 precludes that. But I ask the member to reflect back on what Te Ururoa Flavell actually said. He said that matters were raised in the debate yesterday and that he wished to comment on the issues that were talked about yesterday during debate in this House. That cannot be anticipating debate for today because he was specifically referring to issues raised yesterday. Had he specifically said that he wanted to talk about—if I recollect correctly the Committee was on Part 1—issues in “Part whatever” which was still to come up in front of the Committee of the whole House then I think the member’s point of order would have been valid. So there is nothing wrong with his point of order at all; it is just that it is my assessment that the member was talking about issues that had been raised in debate yesterday. That cannot be anticipating debate especially when the particular legislation the Committee is focused on is a part by part debate in the Committee of the whole House and the member did not say that he wanted to talk about parts that are still to come up in the debate.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17309] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendments be agreed to. 
Ayes 5 
ACT New Zealand 5. 
Noes 116 
New Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 9; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendments not agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 39(3) to omit “several eligible” and substitute “any number of” be agreed to.
Roy Eric: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Roy Eric: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17379] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Eric Roy) 
: I am not sure I was in the Chair at the time. Advice had been sought in regard to these matters. I say to the member that at the start of each vote quite clearly what was happening has been called. It might have been mentioned quite rapidly but each amendment was quite clearly set out as to what was being voted on. The exact typescript of every single amendment or amendments was read out and it was at that time that the member should have objected.
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Tisch Lindsay: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17305] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch) 
: The next amendment in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 28(1)(e) to omit “wind or weather” and substitute “weather or winds” is out of order. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 214 in the name of Hilary Calvert to clause 28(2) be agreed to.
Cunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Cunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:670;Page:17264] 
3. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour—New Lynn) 
 to the  
Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee 
: Is he aware of any complaints about times allocated to submitters on the Telecommunications (TSO Broadband and Other Matters) Amendment Bill? 
CRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee) 
:  
Yes I am. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: Why is he attempting to ram through complex technical submissions on a huge and complex bill— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: —in only 1 week— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: What was it about my being on my feet that the member did not see? I ask the member to please not do that again. When I get to my feet members will resume their seat. That is one of the absolute rules I require. The member knows that that question was not in order.
Cunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Cunliffe David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Volume:670;Page:17263] 
1. 
Hon DAVID CUNLIFFE (Labour—New Lynn) 
 to the  
Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee 
: How many submissions have been received so far on the Telecommunications (TSO Broadband and Other Matters) Amendment Bill? 
CRAIG FOSS (Chairperson of the Finance and Expenditure Committee) 
:  
Thirty-three submissions have been lodged. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: How many minutes has he allocated for the oral hearing of each submission that submitters wish to be heard? 
CRAIG FOSS 
: I do not allocate the minutes. That is a matter for the committee. 
Hon David Cunliffe 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I took the liberty of taking the advice of the Clerk in relation to this supplementary question and under the Standing Orders it is the responsibility of the chairperson to set the agenda and the timetable for the committee. I understand that my supplementary question is in order. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: To respond to the point of order that has been raised I advise that the chairperson can set time limits for submissions. Of course likewise the committee can make those decisions. If the chair has made the decision the chair can answer it. If the committee has made the decision it is a matter for the committee. 
CRAIG FOSS 
: Just for clarification I say that an indicative 10 minutes was allocated to help our agenda through this week. As we know this morning we heard about five or six submissions the longest of which took 40 minutes.
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Vote: Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:670;Page:17368] 
A party vote was called for on the question  
That the amendment be agreed to. 
Ayes 5 
ACT New Zealand 5. 
Noes 113 
New Zealand National 57; New Zealand Labour 42; Green Party 6; Maori Party 4; Progressive 1; United Future 1; Independents: Carter C Harawira. 
Amendment not agreed to. 
The question was put that the amendment set out on Supplementary Order Paper 207 in the name of the Hon Christopher Finlayson to clause 81 be agreed to.