Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:631;Page:3119] 
6.  
JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: Does he stand by his reported statement to the Auckland mayors that “rail will never work”? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 No because I have never said that. As I said yesterday that would be a strange thing to say coming from a Minister who ensured that the Auckland rail line was bought for Auckland who is the shareholding Minister in ONTRACK and who not to mention this spent 18 years as the member of Parliament for the electorate representing those working at the Hillside railway workshops. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Is the Minister aware then that Auckland trains have double the capacity they had a year ago and are still completely full at peak times and that there has been a 33 percent increase in rail patronage in Auckland in just 1 year despite a fare increase; and is he supportive then of those Aucklanders who are filling up our trains in order to save money time or the environment or does he think they will soon be back on the road and sitting in traffic jams? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I am totally supportive of them. That is why the Government is subsidising the operating costs of Auckland rail to the tune of $26 million in this particular year and why it has approved the double tracking of the western line despite the fact that the cost-benefit ratio at the time the decision was made was only about one to one which is well below the cost-benefit ratio for roading projects that get approved. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Does the Minister accept Transit’s own figures that show that congestion in Auckland will be worse in 10 years even if billions of dollars are spent on motorways that fewer and fewer people can afford to use; and if he did not say that rail will not work then what exactly did he say about rail to the Auckland mayors that had them become so upset? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: From what I hear of the feedback a number of the Auckland mayors were not in the least upset by what I said at that meeting. 
Peter Brown 
: Does the Minister accept that rail alone will not solve the mass transportation of passengers that there has to be an alternative and that we have to have roads buses cars and taxis? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Maybe the member should have left that last bit out. I think it is fair to say that the bulk of public transport in Auckland will be provided by the bus services. I have suggested frequently to Aucklanders that the best slogan they can have in terms of public transport is “buses need roads too”. 
Keith Locke 
: Is the Minister aware that in Perth a city with the same sort of population density as Auckland rail patronage has increased from 7 million journeys annually in 1990 to around 40 million journeys today through electrification and other improvements; and does he think that the people and planners of Perth are wrong? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No. Perth of course is a very different shape from Auckland and it has very different opportunities from Auckland in terms of rail transport. Auckland has two rail lines with no real prospect of any further rail lines being built other than the two that are there. Therefore Auckland cannot build a metro network to service the entire Auckland area that would also service the nature of movements within Auckland. What is more business traffic including service business traffic cannot travel on rail. Plumbers will not cart their pipes and their gear on the train. 
Sue Kedgley 
: Is the Minister concerned that while he has been assuring Auckland mayors and MPs in this House that the future lies with buses and roads Land Transport New Zealand is using a funding formula for Wellington’s electric trolley bus network that is putting the entire network at risk; and can he assure the people of Wellington that this Government will not stand by and allow Wellington’s trolley bus network to collapse under its watch? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: The original question was about Auckland. As far as I am aware the southern spread of Auckland has not yet reached Wellington and we are not planning for that within the foreseeable future. The subsidies that apply to Wellington are the same as those that apply to the rest of the country and the Government certainly will not give guarantees of open-ended cheques for any supplier of any particular service in public transport. So far the proponents of electrification in Auckland which is a new proposal in terms of the cost for the Government to bear have not demonstrated that it actually bears any sensible cost-benefit ratio in terms of the outcomes. If it does then the Government will be prepared to support it.