11. Benefits—SanctionsHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social DevelopmentBenefits—Sanctions11. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister for Social Development: Does she stand by all her statements regarding sanctions?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): Yes.Hon Louise Upston: Will the Government be removing the sanction on those people who repeatedly don't turn up to appointments with the Ministry of Social Development?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: The Government has had a sanction regime for quite some time and at this stage we are looking to review the sanctions that are in place. No decisions have been made about current sanctions but moving forward where there are sanctions that are detrimental or not achieving the objectives that they were set up to achieve then we will be looking to reassess whether or not we should have them in place or not.Hon Louise Upston: Does she believe that sanctions should be applied to people who don't turn up for Government-run work programmes?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: There are sanctions that should be in place but we need to assess whether or not they are working so I'm not going to make any statements about the current sanctions that are in place apart from the one that we've already committed publicly to getting rid of and that's section 70A.Hon Louise Upston: Does the Minister believe that a young forestry worker on a Ministry of Social Development employment scheme in Northland should be able to pass a drug test and if not what sanction would there be if they didn't?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I'm not going to answer hypothetical questions about hypothetical people with regard to sanctions. When we make decisions about what sanctions will be in place or will stay in place it will be because we have reviewed them thoroughly.Hon Simon Bridges: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is a current issue; there is nothing hypothetical about it and the Minister should answer it.Mr SPEAKER: No no the member will resume his seat. The question put without any authentication or evidence is absolutely hypothetical and there is no requirement on the Minister to respond.Hon Louise Upston: Where does she stand on a young person being offered a role that they don't accept and should they be sanctioned?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: Where I stand is that I'm really disappointed with the Opposition making assumptions about young people not wanting to work and taking a deficit approach to young people with regard to employment. I think the Opposition needs to be reminded that when they were in Government on several occasions there were thousands of young people lining up outside supermarkets because they wanted to work but there was a lack of job opportunities for them. We're about creating those opportunities.Mr SPEAKER: While the member got considerable support from her colleagues for the answer she didn't actually address the question. I'll invite Louise Upston to repeat the question.Hon Louise Upston: Where does the Minister stand on a young person being offered a role that they don't accept and should they be sanctioned?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: With regards to Government policy we need to follow Government policy in every area. So we would need to look at that specific example and see what policy was in place and apply that policy.Mr SPEAKER: Question number 12—David Seymour: Supplementary.Mr SPEAKER: Oh. I'm sorry—the member's on leave.David Seymour: Well look who's back! Does the Minister agree with the statement in this House of former Labour welfare Minister Steve Maharey with respect to dads welshing on their child support payments: It is a rort and I have said time and time again in this Parliament that fathers must front up to their obligations and we will make sure they do as much as we can."Mr SPEAKER: Yes and the member will resume his seat. That's not an area that—the responsibility for statements made by Mr Maharey is not an area that this Minister has responsibility for.David Seymour: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I seek your assistance. My understanding was that I had asked the Minister in her current capacity: does she agree with that particular statement? I'm not asking her to take responsibility for Mr Maharey's statement; I'm just interested in whether she agrees with something that I thought he articulated very well.Mr SPEAKER: I think we're right at the margin. I will go back and look at it again. If the Minister wants to respond she may but I'm not going to require her to.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: I'll respond. Can I just say that since I have been the Minister for Social Development I have been presented with evidence that shows that that particular sanction—section 70A—has not achieved its original objective or intention and in fact has been detrimental because 18000 children are in households that have been sanctioned because of it and that is why we have made the decision to repeal it.Hon Louise Upston: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I'm just asking if that evidence is in an official ministerial document and if it is I'd ask that it be tabled.Mr SPEAKER: Does the Minister have that official document with her now and is she quoting from it?Hon CARMEL SEPULONI: No.Mr SPEAKER: What I'm going to say to members on my left is that I think we've now had three or four examples of that sort of request—where Ministers have clearly not been quoting from documents. The idea that a Minister is quoting from an official document in response to a question from an Opposition backbencher is highly unlikely and we'd want to see someone actually looking at a document when they were doing it. I think it's coming very close to trifling with the House and I will treat it as such."