Bayly Andrew; Doocey Matt; Webb Duncan; Salesa JennyANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): Thank you Madam Chair. I see this debate's got off to a flying start! Of course I was very intrigued with the Minister's introduction when he said this is the third leg of the puzzle. I would actually say it's a very confusing puzzle; it's normally called a conundrum which means there's no resolution—you can't find the end of the puzzle. At least I acknowledge the Minister in the chair. I know it's a difficult time for him. We're going to have a long time on this tonight. I presume that's why Willie Jackson's turned up just now so he can help the Minister solve all these wonderful issues—the intellectual highlight here!But look the first thing I want to ask about is we are talking about—and this is the Labour proposition that we're going to set up these entities with really confused governance structures. We don't know who owns them. And then we're going to pile on this massive regulatory economic oversight. I think the question for the Minister is what other models did the Labour Government actually contemplate? Because this is not an industry where we've got a whole lot of people a whole lot of players commercial operators out there trying to rip off customers and consumers. The model that Labour has put forward is one where we've been told time and time again it's all going to be in the best interest of consumers. Miraculously the water rates are going to decrease and yet the Government wants to overlay on top of that this really extensive economic process and regulatory burden on these four or 10 entities—whatever might happen; it's not going to happen under us.And when I look at the roles of the commission I find it quite staggering. This is for entities that are not meant to be out competing. They have no obligation no determination in the bill to compete. What they are: they've been set up under the Labour Government to look after certain geographical areas. There's no cross-competing over borders nothing like that and yet we've got a commission—I was just looking at the rights and functions of the commission under clause 4(1)(b) to carry out inquiries reviews and studies (including international benchmarking)" it can act as a regulator—well gee it does that for certain! It can issues warnings reports guidelines making comments it can perform and exercise duties and powers it monitors compliance—it just goes on and on and on.My first question to the Minister is: why on earth has the Labour Government decided that we need this over-the-top form of economic regulation on what would otherwise be reasonably benign organisations that are not meant to be out there competing not meant to be out there ripping it off? If we listened to the member and actually to the Minister talking about the benefits of these types of organisations it is way over the top. Can the Minister please explain that?MATT DOOCEY (National—Waimakariri): Oh thank you very much Madam Chair. Good choice. Look I wanted just to thank the Minister. Very brave for a Labour MP to front up the issue of three waters—the way it's gone down like a cup of cold sick among the public. I just wondered if he could confirm that the former Labour Christchurch Mayor Garry Moore said publicly that he resigned his Labour membership because of three waters—would never vote for Labour again.ANDREW BAYLY (National—Port Waikato): Well thank you Madam Chair. We were hoping the Minister was going to jump up in front of this wonderful audience and explain why this economic regulation was required. And Mr Grant Robertson coming in to rescue him—Mr Robertson rescuing us. So can you explain—just carrying on what I was talking about before—why have a definition of "competition" which means workable and effective competition when each of these entities are not in the game of competing with each other across geographical boundaries about competing for customer base? Why do you have such an onerous form of economic regulation when that form of competition does not exist under the model that the Labour Government has put forward and so many people have said that is a poor and bad structure ripping off the assets of residents and putting them into unaccountable entities? Hon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs): Mr Bayly I'm surprised given your apparent background as a merchant banker that you're not aware of the wide-ranging economic regulation we have across a number of industries like telecommunications and electricity where natural monopoly or a definition of workable competition issues throughout. This is a very normal form of economic regulation in exactly these kinds of situations.CHAIRPERSON (Hon Jenny Salesa): Members the time has come for me to leave the Chair for valedictory statements from members. This committee is suspended. House resumed."