McKelvie IanIAN McKELVIE (National—Rangitīkei): Thank you Madam Chair. I wanted to just follow on from the contribution of the Rt Hon David Carter because I absolutely understand the need to try and I guess accommodate the likes of Tim Fairhall his requirements and clause 12B of the bill does that. But the really interesting challenge with this and it was mentioned by David Carter in his contribution is exactly how you determine that. In my time in this unusual business I've had people come into my office who have in fact cashed their KiwiSaver in for the very reason that this clause is being inserted. They have gone off and done their thing with a doctor's certificate telling them they're not going to live any longer and five years later they're still around and they've got no cash. It's a very real issue. It happens with life insurance as well. People take their life insurance out go off and spend it. I suppose it gets back to David Seymour's euthanasia bill to some extent. But it is a very interesting challenge because you take your life savings off you go and then lo and behold you're still around. That's a very real challenge for this as well.I spent some years as the chairman of Special Olympics which has a whole lot of members—in fact thousands and thousands of members—in exactly the same situation as Tim Fairhall who have a potentially life-shortening condition who have a job and who are working away like every other New Zealander and contributing to KiwiSaver but have the opportunity to withdraw it early for this reason. I think it's going to be very challenging to establish that.It's equally as challenging—and in the Special Olympics case it's very challenging—to understand the degree of for example in their case intellectual disability: which qualifies as a special Olympian and which doesn't? This bill raises this very same issue and you can see why for years the Inland Revenue or the taxation department have grappled with this situation because it's a very difficult situation to overcome. I like David Carter will be very interested to see what the Minister's view of this is and how it might be managed because it will be critical. It will be tested for all sorts of reasons and it is a very real challenge.I mean getting on to KiwiSaver itself I think that KiwiSaver is a great asset to New Zealand and to those people who are part of it and I urge all New Zealanders to be part of it but of course it is in challenging financial times the first thing people tend to look to to get themselves out of financial difficulty or to make their lives more comfortable. Through our offices we get numerous I guess requests—some of them quite angry—to withdraw their KiwiSaver or access their KiwiSaver to keep themselves going. So I think it is important that we have rules around it although for those of my age who have got a KiwiSaver sitting around now and you're in the high-risk zone she's not too good. I think you probably would've dropped 20 percent in the last few weeks so I'm hoping I don't get booted out—Rt Hon David Carter: Are you watching it regularly?IAN McKELVIE: No I'm not and I hope I don't get booted out of here in September because I might need the cash! But it would be tricky.Actually just on that point it's another interesting point because in my earlier days I did chair a superannuation fund. The superannuation rules in New Zealand have changed so often. I know this is just slightly off the point but it's very relevant to the point—very relevant to the point. They had a terminal date so when you left the superannuation fund you took your cash. Of course right now you would not be wanting to take your cash out of a superannuation fund were you part of it and so KiwiSaver has got to have that flexibility as you get out the other end of it as well. So there's a whole lot of I guess very interesting situations that arise as a result of—I was going to say fiddling" but I shouldn't say that—tinkering with this kind of legislation because it is a tricky thing to do. But I do accept that this is a very good effort to achieve a result for Tim Fairhall and all of his friends.I don't want to go on any longer on the issue but it is a tricky issue and I congratulate the Parliament on it if we can get this through in one piece and make it work. I think it's a well-worthwhile piece that's added to this bill. Thank you Madam Chair."