Hide Rodney: Taxation (Annual Rates of income Tax 2005-06) Bill Taxation (Urgent Measures) Bill Student Loan Scheme Amendment Bill — Third Readings 
Hide Rodney: Taxation (Annual Rates of income Tax 2005-06) Bill Taxation (Urgent Measures) Bill Student Loan Scheme Amendment Bill — Third Readings 
[Volume:628;Page:797] 
RODNEY HIDE (Leader—ACT) 
: 
 I rise to oppose this legislation. It was an interesting contribution from Mr Doug Woolerton from New Zealand First. He reminded us that New Zealand First had campaigned to lift wages. What New Zealanders did not realise was that the only wage that would be lifted would be that of Mr Winston Peters. We did not realise that New Zealand First’s campaign was not about lifting the wages of hard-working New Zealanders but was all about the baubles of office and Winston Peters getting a ministerial salary. That is what the campaign was about and New Zealand First has done nothing—nothing—to help the working people of New Zealand. 
That is why ACT opposes this bill. There is a very simple measure— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. You will realise as I do that there are some rules about debates in this House and one of them relates to the issue of relevance. So far we have learnt that the reason the member opposes the bill is that I have got a job. That is a gross waste of Parliament’s time. I know he is an inexperienced member and that is one reason why he will stay in Opposition for the rest of his career as brief as it might be and as overspent as his budget was in the last campaign but he is required to confine himself to the Standing Orders and Speakers’ rulings and to try if he can—and that will be a remote possibility—to address the issue before the House. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank the member for that. I refer him to Speaker’s ruling 44/3 which allows— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: A very good ruling! 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Order! I am on my feet. It allows a member some leeway in responding to criticism. But Mr Hide will come to order. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: The other thing that Doug Woolerton told the House was that New Zealand First had won. I saw what happened on election night and Winston Peters lost the seat of Tauranga. The people of Tauranga dumped him. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: No no no. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: The member says “No no no.” but the reality is that more people voted for Bob Clarkson—“the old man in a hurry” they called him—than voted for Winston Peters. Why? Because Winston Peters had failed the people of Tauranga. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: You overspent and so did he. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Everyone who won broke the rules but not poor old Winston Peters who lost the election lost the seat of Tauranga. He is heading off to Malta—[ 
Interruption 
] Steve Chadwick is excited. She is waving at me the original bill that has been split into three. Let me deal with those three bills. I look forward to hearing Mr Peters’ contribution and his explanation of how he won— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: After you? What a waste of time. It’s like taking candy off a baby. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: That is what Bob Clarkson said it was and he said it was like that in court too. He said it was a hopeless court case. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Overspent. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Mr Peters sits there and he chips away. He used to be happy to be just the member for Tauranga. Now he is miserable to be just the member for nowhere. That is the problem with Mr Peters—the member from nowhere. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: How many seats have you got? 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Mr Peters calls out asking how many seats we have. We have one—it is called Epsom—and he has none because he lost Tauranga at the last election. He is hanging on through the list. The people of Tauranga dumped him. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: What about Muriel? 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Let us get back to the legislation. I know that Mr Peters wants to talk about his loss because it weighs heavily on his mind. 
A very simple thing we could do to help working people in New Zealand and indeed to help the country is to lower and flatten taxes. The 39c rate should go the 33c rate should go and we should make the top rate and the company tax rate 25c in the dollar. I do not think there is a respectable economist left in the world who does not think that sound tax policy is about flattening the tax system not lengthening it as the Labour Government has done. Indeed as my colleague Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith pointed out under the Working for Families package someone on $60000 with a few kids is paying an effective tax rate of 60 percent. If those people earn an extra $1 they lose 60c and they get to keep 40c and somehow Mr Peters and Mr Cullen think that is a good idea. 
When Mr Peters first came to the House he was a member of the National Party and he supported lower taxes but he lost that seat too actually. He is the only member in this House to have lost two seats yet he expects to come down to this House and say he is a winner. Mr Peters has lost two seats in a row. He lost Hunua then Tauranga. 
The other thing is that if we lowered taxes— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In the interests of having a fair comparison I have to say that the member on his feet lost in 1996 lost in 1999 and lost in 2002 and now he regards himself as some sort of hero because he has finally won one out of four. What rate of success is that? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: The member knows that is not a point of order; it is a debating point. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: That is all right Madam Assistant Speaker; he is a man who has to get attention somehow. The people in Tauranga do not listen to him anymore. In fact I heard that he is closing his office in Tauranga and shifting it to Auckland. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I draw your attention to the question of relevance and it is particularly relevant when a member on his feet tells a downright lie and says I am closing my office in Tauranga. That is important for the people in Tauranga because they know that unlike him I am not a fly-by-nighter. The office stays open at the moment and he knows full well that is true. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: The member knows very well that he cannot insinuate that another member lied. The member will withdraw and apologise. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I withdraw and apologise Madam Assistant Speaker. Point of order— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: No the member knows that he must withdraw and apologise and that is the end of the matter. If it is a new point of order that is different but I also remind the member that we have had two points of order that are not points of order. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I said it was a downright lie. For you to raise objection to that means that he is owning up to being the perpetrator of it which I did not quite say did I. I said that the statement that I am closing my office in Tauranga is a downright lie. I did not say that he started it but I am saying that what he is saying is a downright lie and if he wants to be the originator and owner of it then he would have cause to raise a point of order. But he did not did he—you did. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: It is my responsibility to rule on a matter like that. The member knows that that is very close to the wind. Certainly I took that to be how the member had called it. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The difficulty you have is that the Rt Hon Winston Peters withdrew and apologised then deliberately repeated on a point of order exactly what you had complained about and what you had had him withdraw and apologise for. That was deliberately questioning your authority in this House. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: No. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: The member can object as much as he likes. You pulled him up for saying that what I had said was a downright lie. He was required to withdraw and apologise. He then raised a point of order and repeated exactly what you had asked him to withdraw and apologise for. I ask you Madam Assistant Speaker to require him to withdraw him and apologise for what he said and repeated on a point of order. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: The member was contesting the context in the way that he said it. I certainly did not rule in his favour. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In that case is it all right for me to stand up in the House as an Opposition MP and say that what David Benson-Pope has told this House most days is a downright lie—because you have just ruled that Mr Peters can say that? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Hide I listened to the member who was making a point of order about the context. I did not agree with him. He withdrew and apologised for the first point that I had pulled him up on. Please continue with your speech. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Point of order— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: No please be seated. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I will not be seated Madam Assistant Speaker. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated. I have ruled on this matter. It is the end of the matter. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Well that is great thank you Madam Assistant Speaker because we now have a new ruling in this House. Members can stand up and say that what Mr Benson-Pope said in the House was a downright lie because that is what Mr Peters said and that is what he got away with in this House. We can say someone is a downright liar and it is a downright lie and it is all OK. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: I will rule on what Mr Hide just did. Mr Hide absolutely contested my ruling. Mr Hide will now withdraw and apologise. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I withdraw and apologise. I thank Mr Peters because what we can say is not that Mr Benson-Pope did anything wrong—because that is the point that Mr Peters made—but that what he said was not true. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Hide I will give you another warning. What you are doing is completely irrelevant to the question. I ask you to come back to the legislation and speak to it. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I am making a point that you asked Mr Peters to withdraw and apologise— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: You are doing it again. You are now contesting my ruling. I ask the member to desist or I will have no choice but to ask the member to leave. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: You’re a good lad. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: I am because I won Epsom and he lost Tauranga. That is the thing that he cannot get over. That is what bothers Mr Peters. He lost his seat. Bob Clarkson got more votes than Winston Peters. Winston Peters is a loser. That is the trouble we have with Mr Peters who is sitting on the sideline and chip chip chipping away. He will be proven a loser again this week. The idea that a New Zealand First member can get up in this House and somehow say that that party won the election is rubbish. Winston Peters from New Zealand First lost his seat. 
ACT members oppose this legislation because we want taxes to come down not sometime in the future not next week but now for Christmas. We want the tax rate flattened. We do not agree with targeted assistance that puts people into a tax rate system of over 100 percent—[ 
Interruption 
] Well Steve Chadwick is another loser stumping up and down. We have a party of losers over there on the Labour benches. We oppose this legislation. We oppose the student loan interest write-off. It takes $2 billion off hard-working New Zealanders off people such as truckdrivers cleaners and waitresses and shifts that $2 billion across to people who are accountants lawyers political scientists and lecturers—and some of them might even get a bauble or two might lose their seats and become Minister of Foreign Affairs! We say that is wrong and unfair. The way to help the graduates of New Zealand is to drop their taxes to a flat rate of 20c or 25c; then they could pay off their loans. 
But wait it gets even better. If we cut taxes there will be more investment more entrepreneurship more jobs and a stronger economy. Instead of heading for the hard landing that Labour and Winston Peters will deliver to this country we will have a strong growing economy. We will have investment businesses that are succeeding and a strong economy. Under the Peters - Clark - Cullen Government we have an economy that is heading for a hard landing next year and I say that this legislation— 
Steve Chadwick 
: There are only two of you. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Steve Chadwick has a lot to say. How did she get on in the election? Did she lose? 
Hon Member 
: No got back. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Just got back did she? 
Chris Tremain 
: That much. 
RODNEY HIDE 
: Next time Steve Chadwick will be gone and she will be a loser too. ACT says we should be cutting taxes tonight. We should be dropping the company rate and dropping the personal rate. That would be the best thing we could do for students. That would be the best thing that we could do for working New Zealanders.