Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Franks Stephen: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:627;Page:22049] 
12.  
STEPHEN FRANKS (ACT) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Why does his department require women to go to the back of the room and not speak at welcoming and farewell ceremonies just because they are women and how does he reconcile this discrimination against women with the Human Rights Act 1993? 
Hon MITA RIRINUI (Associate Minister of Corrections) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Corrections 
: The department has no such requirement. 
Stephen Franks 
: How does the Minister justify his answer to a probation officer Ellen Armstrong who complained about the same discrimination in March 2002 discreetly going through the proper channels but with absolutely no result; and why then did the Minister on 7 March this year tell me in writing that Josie Bullock’s similar complaint was being considered together with a complaint against her from the Maori staff network when 6 months later she was told in writing that her complaint could not be assessed because the department has no policy or protocol on powhiri and poroporoaki and now she has been suspended for publicly claiming her right as a woman to equal treatment from the Government? 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Firstly employment matters are the responsibility of the chief executive of the department not the Minister. However I am also advised that the issue with Ms Bullock has nothing to do with her views on poroporoaki or powhiri but with her conduct. 
Nandor Tanczos 
: Is the Minister aware of reports of a real case of discrimination whereby female inmates are having access to their children removed as a form of punishment and was it the influence of the “United Fundamentalist Party” that led to a policy of visiting the sins of the parents on the children? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister is not responsible for any other party but may address the rest of the question. 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Yes I am aware of that matter. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Notwithstanding the Minister’s denials today of any problems within the Department of Corrections in these matters have any of the recommended reviews been carried out in respect of Department of Corrections Maori-based rehabilitation programmes and is the case of Josie Bullock an example of that department’s determination to place more emphasis on Maori custom than on reducing offending or on other human rights? 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: I say once again the issue with regard to Ms Bullock has nothing to do with her views on powhiri or poroporoaki. It is to do with her conduct. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table two documents. The first is from the  
New Zealand Herald 
 which shows the very clear story of Helen Clark being told by one Titewhai Harawira not to speak on the marae and to sit down. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: The second document is from the next year when Titewhai took Helen Clark on to the marae and what sort of demonstration of consistency is that? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Heather Roy 
: What evidence does the Minister have that efforts by the Department of Corrections to reduce sexist aggression and bullying by male offenders are not undermined by Maori cultural ceremonies which emphasise the warrior dominance of males? 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: I am not sure where that question is going but there are no instances where Maori culture has been used to undermine anyone at any institution. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Is the Minister seriously telling the House that despite having notice of this question he is not aware that Ellen Armstrong complained about discrimination in 2002 in Maori ceremonies and her being required to go to the back—and now we have a second case—or is it this Government’s view that it is satisfactory for a Minister to get up in the House and say: “Yes I’m aware of it.” and do nothing; does this Government actually stand against discrimination against women and if so what is he as Minister going to do about this disgraceful situation? 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: Attendance at these ceremonies is voluntary and usually the speaking order is predetermined and the seating arrangements are done accordingly. Ms Bullock sat in a seat that was reserved for a speaker. 
Stephen Franks 
: I seek leave to table a letter from the Department of Corrections informing Josie Bullock that because the department does not have a policy or protocol on powhiri there is nothing to assess her complaint against. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that letter. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Stephen Franks 
: I seek leave to table a copy of a communication from the department advising staff to turn up to their training in powhiri which states the males will sit in the front row and the females in the back seats. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Stephen Franks 
: I seek leave to table an email message from Ellen Armstrong to the office solicitor of the Department of Corrections in 2002 asking whether the workplace practice requiring females to sit behind their male colleagues was part of a discriminatory employment practice or policy. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Stephen Franks 
: I seek leave to table a message from Ellen Armstrong to me setting out the steps that she had taken to challenge that practice. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Nanaia Mahuta 
: Can the Minister confirm whether Western gender role distinctions reconcile with Maori cultural gender distinctions in relation to protocols for powhiri and whakatau? 
Hon MITA RIRINUI 
: In a marae situation there really are distinctions between who has certain roles. In an institution of that kind as stated earlier on there is no such policy but training in protocols in relation to tikanga Maori is available.