Robertson H V Ross: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Referral to Health Committee Procedure In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Robertson H V Ross: Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill — Referral to Health Committee Procedure In Committee 
[Sitting date: 15 October 2003. Volume:612;Page:9223. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: If you wish to do that you are perfectly entitled to so. 
Hon PETER DUNNE 
: I am seeking guidance from you before I make my decision. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member does not have to persist in what is going on at present. If he does not wish to take the call that is entirely up to him. But I have called the member and I call him again. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I have already ruled on this. The member’s point of order had better be a fresh one. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: It is certainly a fresh point of order. I have just arrived in the Chamber as you may have observed. I have come directly all the way over from Bowen House and I am seeking an assurance that I have not wasted my time—that I will also get a call. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: You have not wasted your time. 
Hon PETER DUNNE 
: Before that interruption occurred I was saying that the claim that has been made by some members—that the sum of $2.1 million advanced to Action on Smoking and Health and its ilk is a conservative estimate—is absolutely correct because there is a thriving industry abroad here which goes something like this: a person works for the Ministry of Health for a period of time then fans out into one of these organisations and becomes a consultant a specialist an adviser or so on to that organisation which then seeks funding from the ministry to promote its good work in the way that we have seen. But it gets better. When international conference time comes around—and the World Health Organization is par excellence in terms of international conferences—look at who goes as part of the New Zealand delegation! It is wide and inclusive so all these people who have just left the ministry to go and do good work for these struggling voluntary agencies which the ministry ends up supporting end up on the delegation. They end up on the delegation so that they can put on their CV for the next research grant application: “Attended the XYZ conference in an out-of-the-way place.” But it gets even better— 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I am sorry to interrupt the honourable member but I just say that interjections while members are standing are out of order and they will not be tolerated. 
Hon PETER DUNNE 
: It gets even better and I will cite one example. Dr Murray Laugesen who used to be an assistant director within the Ministry of Health here in Wellington now resides in the exotic location of Waiheke Island and is a reputed international expert on these matters. He is at every conference that comes up. His name is all over these contracts. We see him popping up all over the show. When the Ministry of Health wants to consult an independent adviser on tobacco control policy whom does it consult? It consults the Dr Laugesens of this world. It is not only incestuous; it is far more than $2.1 million—this is just the tip of the iceberg. 
What we have here is an agenda that this bill reflects—and I say this with deference to the member promoting it because I know she took it over from another member—that the members in charge of the bill are not even fully aware of. They are simply promoting legislation that has been drafted—not by the Government—by Government officials who have a vested interest and an absolute determination to rort the system to get their goals. They find a member who is prepared to take on the sponsorship of this bill and we end up in this situation. So the revelations last week shocking as they are should not come as a great surprise. This practice has been going on for well over a decade. One has only to look at the constant traipsing of people to these international gatherings to see who they are what they actually seek to achieve and the frequency with which they pop up again in search of the next research grant. 
The point that needs to be considered by the State Services Commission and by the Auditor-General if he is involved in a review is not just the specific contract but the whole culture that gives rise to this sort of behaviour because it is insidious it is deep and it is sinister. What it is doing is causing the sort of situation we are seeing promoted in this bill—a situation where nonsense rather than common sense becomes the norm. 
Before the bell rings I want to congratulate Mr Carter on his thoroughness in the amendments he has moved. I hope they are well considered by the Committee. Equally Katherine Rich put herself on the line by going around every pub in Otago to gain first-hand experience in this matter. That shows the dedication of those members. More important as this morning’s  
Dominion Post  
featured and as a TV3 programme a couple of weeks ago featured the more one goes out there and talks to people who are affected the more one gets two reactions: first: “This is nonsense. It will not work. It will be ignored.” and secondly: “We do not support what is going on.” Parliament’s choice this evening is either to stand with those people or to stand with the people on the consultancy gravy train and simply rack up further dollars in their interests. 
The CHAIRPERSON (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I call the honourable member Dail Jones.