Power Simon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Power Simon: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:632;Page:3763] 
5.  
SIMON POWER (National—Rangitikei) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Is she confident that the Government will reach its target of 1000 extra sworn police before the next election? 
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Police) 
: 
 The Government and the New Zealand Police are committed to the recruitment of an extra 1000 sworn and 250 non-sworn staff over the three Budgets in line with the Government’s confidence and supply agreement with New Zealand First. As I have said on more than one occasion it will be a challenge but it is one that it is possible to meet. 
Simon Power 
: How can she be confident of that when the latest figures from the police reveal that there are 59 fewer front-line police now than there were at the end of June last year meaning she is already starting with a deficit—or has she promised more than she can deliver? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: No because this programme starts on 1 July in line with the Budget. The Budget was put in from 1 July. It was always said to be the case—never anything else. However I am confident along with the Commissioner of Police that we will meet the target and I welcome those members of this House who are supporting such a recruitment drive. 
Simon Power 
: Can the Minister confirm that at present there are 206 fewer sworn staff than have been budgeted for—and that is even before the new funding from this year’s Budget—yet the number of non-sworn staff is over budget by 67 including decoy cops who are recorded as non-sworn staff? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: The number of sworn staff goes up and down. The trend one has to look at is how many there will be at the end of the promise that was made in conjunction with New Zealand First. I have a lot of confidence in our ability to go out and recruit because New Zealanders want more police to be on the street. That is what we promised and that is what we want to deliver. 
Heather Roy 
: What initiatives does the Minister have under way for the police to work with and to expand the role of community groups that are already skilled experienced and well placed to prevent and combat crime such as Maori wardens and Neighbourhood Support and to appoint special constables to fill existing gaps; if there are none why not? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I am pleased to tell the member that a lot of work is done in that area by the New Zealand Police. For example the police provide in kind work worth over $100000 to Neighbourhood Support. I recently opened the conference of the Community Patrols in New Zealand in Rotorua where the Commissioner of Police undertook to provide even more support than the police give now. Those are two examples. Of course the police work very closely with Maori wardens and I am pleased to tell the member that the new Commissioner of Police is one of those who instigated very close association with Maori wardens. I believe that the police are doing a lot in that respect and that they intend to do even more. 
Heather Roy 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister made absolutely no attempt to answer my question. We all know that the police are doing a very good job but my question did not ask what the police did; it asked what initiatives she had underway to expand the role of those groups. 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: The police are not separate in that the Government provides the funding and the impetus for the police to undertake those roles. So the member cannot separate out the money that the Government puts in from the role that the New Zealand Police undertakes. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member did address the question. 
Simon Power 
: Can the Minister confirm that in the year to the end of May the number of resignations of sworn staff has increased by 27 percent and the number of retirements has increased by 72 percent; what will she do to halt that alarming rate of attrition? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: The rate of attrition in the New Zealand Police ranges from between 4 percent and 6 percent on an annual basis—and it has for many many years even under a National Government. I think that many Government departments would be proud to have an annual attrition rate of 5 percent. I believe that the police are doing a lot to hold police staff within their ranks. I am certainly not going to stop people retiring; they have every right to retire if they want to. 
Kate Wilkinson 
: Can the Minister confirm the contents of a report from Deputy Commissioner of Police Lyn Provost which states: “The sworn police staff is an ageing population” with only 13 percent under the age of 30 and that older staff tend to “move away from front-line general duties.”; if so how will she meet the target of 1000 extra front-line cops? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: That is a very good question because one of the recruitment drives of the New Zealand Police is to recruit people in a younger age group. Over a number of years the police had concentrated on the age groups of people in their 20s and going up to their 30s and 40s and one of the recruitment drives is for school leavers. I think I recall some criticism from National for undertaking that policy; I do not know why. 
Simon Power 
: Can the Minister confirm the estimate of the deputy commissioner that due to attrition the police will actually need to recruit 2250 police in order to get the 1000 she has promised; and will she tell the House today what percentage of certainty she believes she has in reaching that target? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: That certainly has been confirmed by the deputy commissioner who also told the member that it is possible to do that. I have confidence in her figures regarding the police being able to provide not only for attrition but also for additional staff. Let me take the example that the Royal New Zealand Police College has been training about 250 new cops a year. It is already training up to around 650 and it has managed to do that before we have even started the major campaign. 
Simon Power 
: I seek leave to table the report from the Deputy Commissioner of Police to the Minister of Police that confirms that 2250 recruits will be needed—taking attrition into account—before there is any chance of having 1000 new front-line and sworn staff. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Ron Mark 
: Supplementary question Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I just remind members that the normal practice is for documents to be tabled afterwards. If members have supplementary questions could they please rise to ask them before that. 
Ron Mark 
: Can the Minister tell the House whether she has seen the contradictory reports in the media whereby on the one hand Simon Power from National is spreading doom and gloom about the Government’s inability to recruit the 1250 extra police and on the other hand Simon Power’s colleague Judith Collins is so confident that the Government is going to hit that target of 1250 extra police that she has launched a petition in her electorate Clevedon to make sure she gets her fair share of the extra police that will arrive? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: In response to the first part of the member’s question I say that unfortunately Simon Power has become known as a perennial whinge bag. In relation to the second part of the question I would like to congratulate the member for Clevedon who has confidence in the New Zealand Police. Maybe she has a little more knowledge about the police than National’s spokesperson does. I have confidence that we will go out and recruit those police and I am hopeful that the member will have her wish granted. 
Judith Collins 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I seek leave for the Minister to say whether she will sign my petition. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not a sensible point of order. 
Ron Mark 
: Is it not a fact that the best recruiters of police officers in this country are police officers that we have in total 10000 sworn and non-sworn officers in the country right now and that if each one of those officers was to recruit one extra person we would have a surplus of police officers of something around 8750? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I can confirm what the member has said—police are the best recruiters of new police. I think it is also helpful however to have local members of Parliament like the member for Clevedon also go out and assist in the recruitment drive knowing that policing is a very good profession for people—not only for the young but for those who are a little older as well. It is just a shame that there are some who would love this programme to fail. I cannot for the life of me understand why they want it to fail other than that they hope they may get a couple of votes out of it. 
Ron Mark 
: Can the Minister confirm or offer a view on one of the greatest threats to police recruitment which is dissatisfaction and loss of confidence inside the police force and can she comment on whether the involvement of a former National Party parliamentary candidate by the name of Dale Stephens who headed a security company called Specialised Guard Services and who subsequently employed an ex - gang member and rapist as a security guard in a central police station to oversee an inmate who was on suicide watch is one of the things that does not help the police in maintaining their confidence and satisfaction levels; can she offer the National Party any advice on how to select good candidates? 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. That question has nothing to do with the primary question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes. Not only is that the case but the Minister has no responsibility for that. 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Can I rephrase the question? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: No I am sorry. The question was far too long in the first place. You have had the opportunity to ask the question and it is time to move on. You may ask another supplementary question; that is perfectly within your right. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The fact is that the question really asked whether someone who was running a security company that the police had a contract with was running it in a way that would encourage police recruitment in this country. It might have been a long question but it was relevant in that context. This is a big issue that has just been exposed in the last 24 hours. The fact that the man was a National Party candidate may be neither here nor there—it may be part of National’s typical behaviour—but it is still a relevant question. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think members must take from this that when they ask supplementary questions they should be succinct. Supplementary questions should contain within them only one thought not a stream of consciousness which frequently—[ 
Interruption 
] I am not talking about only this particular member’s supplementary question; I am talking about many supplementary questions that come from members. So would members please take note of that. Questions should be succinct short and carry one thought only and then members are likely to—[ 
Interruption 
] It may well be too many the Hon Bill English says but that is for someone else to decide. 
Ron Mark 
: Can the Minister inform the House of what possible impediments there could be to attracting good recruits into the police force given the work conditions that they may sometimes find themselves facing? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I do agree with the member that integrity is an important part of recruitment into the New Zealand Police. I think the point the member is trying to make is that those who work with the New Zealand Police are expected to have a level of integrity as well. Unfortunately sometimes people do not see the difference between those who are working in say a private security company and work that can be done in conjunction with the New Zealand Police so therefore there can be some spin-off from those sorts of arrangements that have not worked out.