Brownlee Gerry: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Brownlee Gerry: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — Second Reading Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:16990] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
: 
 The previous speaker made a great plea on behalf of Maori for their rights to be recognised. We teased a lot of those issues out with Mr McHugh who is recognised as an expert on those matters.  
Tariana Turia 
: Is he a Maori expert? 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: There was an interjection there that was worth recording but I did not hear it. Mr McHugh claims to be an expert on those matters. He was brought before the Fisheries and Other Sea-related Legislation Committee to give us the benefit of his expertise and one of the most interesting things I think that we got out of him in the 3-odd hours that we listened to his interesting view on how those things are constructed within the law was the acceptance that anything to do with a customary law title is understood by us only in the context of the British common law.  
One of the things that fascinates me about all of this is that if Maori have those rights and claim them why do they need to have them affirmed in the law in this way if in fact there is not some intention to constrain those rights? That is the contradiction in the Labour Party’s argument. Maori member after Maori member stands up and says what a great thing they have done for their people. Well that is just not right.  
On the other side of it is my strong objection that as somebody who is from the fifth generation of his family in this country I continue to be told that I will never be the same in this country as someone who is Maori. So I ask myself what the purpose is of this particular bill. It does not satisfy Maori it does not satisfy the people I represent and it does not show much direction for the future. Mr Prebble is absolutely right when he says that in new clause 2A as soon as the qualification is expressed that is put in there in the words “including the protection of the association of whanau hapu and iwi with areas of the public foreshore and seabed.” it separates out— 
Russell Fairbrother 
: It is inclusive. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: It would be inclusive if that sentence stopped at the words “the common heritage of all New Zealanders”. That would be the end of it.  
A whole lot of questions are raised in this newly renamed bill and they will not get the sort of scrutiny or public attention that they deserve. For example if we get very practical some of them would be the questions that the Hon Dr Nick Smith asked. How can we create new reserves inside reserves and over areas where other arrangements are in place? What will be the relationship between the Minister of Fisheries the Minister of Conservation and the Minister of Maori Affairs under the new arrangements? The beneficial owner—if one likes the nominal owner—of the foreshore and seabed under this bill will be the Hon Chris Carter. What will happen when it comes to fisheries legislation or regulation? Will he negotiate with Parekura Horomia or will he negotiate with the Minister of Fisheries the Hon David Benson-Pope? 
Russell Fairbrother 
: What’s this got to do with it? 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: That is exactly the sort of confusion that has been put in this bill—there is total confusion in the bill. I do not think anybody on the Government benches has worked out at this stage how difficult it will be to achieve the reserves for Maori. That will be very difficult. That is why we know that there is a clause in the first part that talks about the requirement when a reserve is not able to be put in place that the Government must then engage in looking for redress. That means getting out the chequebook.