11. Question No. 11—FinanceCHLÖE SWARBRICK (Green—Auckland Central) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 11—Finance11. CHLÖE SWARBRICK (Green—Auckland Central) to the Minister of Finance: Does he think that banks have unfairly profited from economic circumstances during the COVID-19 pandemic while ordinary people in Aotearoa are doing it tough; if so what actions is he taking to redress the balance?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): In answer to the first part of the question as the member and I have discussed several times before banks in New Zealand have made large profits since well before the COVID-19 pandemic. In terms of the question of unfair profit I would note in terms of the pandemic the approach taken by the Reserve Bank has mirrored most other countries in the face of enormous uncertainty about the volatility of bond markets and liquidity. In answer to the second part of the question the Government acknowledges that many New Zealanders have been and are doing it tough. That's why we have taken a number of actions to help ordinary people in Aotearoa including increasing benefits superannuation the family tax credit student allowances and lifting the minimum wage. We've also provided a temporary cost of living payment cut fuel excise tax and road-user charges and halved the cost of public transport. We've increased access to subsidised childcare made doctors visits cheaper provided free lunches in schools and introduced a winter energy payment. The Government is focused on easing the cost of living pressures on ordinary New Zealanders while also managing the books in a careful and responsible manner.Chlöe Swarbrick: Is he aware if Adrian Orr's recent comments that revenue raising through other alternatives makes the job of monetary policy easier."; if so what fiscal initiatives is he considering to make the job of monetary policy easier?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the first part of that question yes.Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he agree with former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern who said last year that bank profits are unjustifiable; or does he agree with current Prime Minister Chris Hipkins who has said "There are some New Zealanders who perhaps aren't contributing their fair share."?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Yes.Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he agree that a levy on excess profits in the banking sector would be an effective way to fund the recovery from Cyclone Gabrielle because it would avoid exacerbating inflation; if not why not?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As I've noted in this House the Government is doing as the previous Government did in the wake of Canterbury earthquakes taking our time to work through possible ways of funding the costs that inevitably come with the significant recovery and rebuild programmes. No final decisions have been made on that.Chlöe Swarbrick: What genuine obstacles are there to the Government implementing an excess-profit tax on banks whose massive profits can be seen as linked to the unique economic circumstances of the COVID-19 pandemic economic response?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I don't think there are particular obstacles other than going through the process of thinking about how to make a decision like that. As I noted in my primary answer bank profits in New Zealand have been high for a long period of time so I don't necessarily buy that part of the member's argument with respect to COVID-19. As I've also said in the past banks have to have an eye to their social licence. The way that they operate—for example in response to a cyclone—is a way that both the Government and members of the public may judge their social licence.Chlöe Swarbrick: Does he accept that urgent economic decisions made during the COVID-19 pandemic have resulted in a significant transfer of wealth to the richest few in Aotearoa; and if so does he think that it is incumbent on a Labour Minister of Finance to redress that balance?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The member and I have discussed this matter before as well. The only way that the number that I've heard about which I noticed she chose not to use in the question could be justified—$20 billion or something—would be by including every single transfer to a small-business owner in New Zealand. Not all small-business owners in New Zealand would be regarded as extremely wealthy. In fact many of them do it very tough every day just getting through. So I understand the point the member's making but I don't think the way that it's been expressed is entirely accurate.Chlöe Swarbrick: Can he look the people of Aotearoa in the eye and tell them that everyone is paying their fair share of tax; and if not when will he sort it out and tax the rich?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the first part of the question we always have to strive to make sure that all New Zealanders are paying their fair share and in fact I think it was in the House last week that I expressed the view that we are not there yet and I made particular reference then to the taxation of multinationals."