4. Question No. 4—FinanceNICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of FinanceQuestion No. 4—Finance4. NICOLA WILLIS (Deputy Leader—National) to the Minister of Finance: What advice if any has he sought from Treasury in the past six months on specific matters relating to New Zealand's current tax settings and what specific tax changes if any were considered as part of the Budget process?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): The Government seeks and receives a range of tax policy advice during the parliamentary term including in the past six months on New Zealand's current tax settings. That advice varies from agency to agency and is reflected for example in the decision in the Budget to lift the trustee tax rate. In answer to the second part of the question the Budget process for 2023 began around August of last year and as at all Budgets it considered whether specific tax changes were appropriate. That was the subject of Cabinet discussion. Cabinet discussions are confidential until such time as announcements are made. Nicola Willis: Point of order Mr Speaker. The second part of the question was very specific: what specific tax changes if any were considered as part of the Budget process? I don't believe the Minister has addressed that part of the question.SPEAKER: No I think he has.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Perhaps I can help here—speaking to that point Mr Speaker.SPEAKER: Well how can you? I've already made a ruling.Hon Michael Woodhouse: Well the issue is a question of Cabinet. The Minister is using Cabinet confidentiality to not address the second part of the question but the question does not refer to Cabinet.SPEAKER: That's the point of having further supplementaries—you can explore that. David Seymour: Mr Speaker can I speak to that?SPEAKER: No. As I said I've already ruled on it. Go back and read Hansard read the question and listen to the answer. It's been addressed.David Seymour: Point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: A new point of order? David Seymour: Yes Mr Speaker. I think it is something that bears some consideration. You've often said that the member has more supplementaries to further explore the answer.SPEAKER: Order! You're now disputing my ruling—David Seymour: No I'm not; I'm just trying to be helpful.SPEAKER: —and interjecting while I'm on my feet. I mean one person has been elected to be the judge of what happens in here. Either you're going to allow me to do that under the rules or not. Nicola Willis: Has he used his public office to obtain advice on possible changes to the tax system that have not yet been made public?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I refer the member to my primary answer. I did note in my primary answer that at this Budget as at all Budgets consideration has been given to specific tax changes. Those are the subject of Cabinet's discussions. They are confidential until such time as announcements are made. Nicola Willis: Why doesn't the public have a right to know what policies his Government is considering on tax?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I have answered a number of times in this House that the extent of the Government's work on tax was outlined after the 2020 election. That has been the work programme for tax. In respect of the Budget we had the announcement on the trustee tax rate. In respect of this Government those are the actions on tax that we are taking.Nicola Willis: Can he can he rule out the possibility that tax changes rejected by Cabinet will re-emerge in the Labour Party manifesto?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well the Labour Party manifesto is not my ministerial responsibility but I can indicate to the member that it has not yet been finalised.Nicola Willis: Has the finance Minister or has he not sought and received advice on possible options for reducing or increasing income tax? If he won't answer that question why doesn't he believe the public have a right to know?Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I have answered that question and that's exactly what my primary answer suggested. I would refer the member if she wants further advice on this to an answer given by Bill English on 5 June 2015 with respect to questions about support for children in hardship where he acknowledged that Treasury had given him a range of advice and said that that advice would be released as part of Treasury's Budget 2015 proactive release in early July.Nicola Willis: Point of order Mr Speaker. This line of questioning is one that I have now attempted via written question and via the Finance and Expenditure Committee process and it relates to Ministers' responsibility to the House to account for the advice that they receive. This has been a matter of many Speakers' rulings throughout the years and I would direct you specifically to Speaker's ruling 187/2 which notes that the Official Information Act does not exempt Ministers from their accountability to the House through question procedures and I would simply ask that you direct the Minister that he cannot use the later release of information—the planned later release of information—as a reason to not fully address questions asked in parliamentary written or oral question form. Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Speaking to the point of order Mr Speaker. I don't want to prolong others because I have addressed the question. I don't want to comment on your rulings but that is what you ruled. In my last answer I was simply referring to a practice that has occurred in the past as far back as 2015 but I believe I have addressed all the questions I have been asked today.SPEAKER: So the Minister must answer if they can consistently with public interest but it's up to the Minister to judge that. So you can ask further questions if you wish.Nicola Willis: Mr Speaker is there any chance I could have an extra supplementary to do so?SPEAKER: I can't grant you one but you can—Hon Michael Woodhouse: Point of order Mr Speaker. I would just make the point that the answers given by the Minister of Finance did not refuse to provide information in the public interest. He refused to provide it because it would be later available and as Nicola Willis has pointed out Speaker's ruling 187/2 is very clear that that's not an appropriate answer.SPEAKER: Well I'll invite all members to do what I will do and go back and look at the Hansard about exactly what has been said and check whether or not my rulings are correct. If it's not I'll come back and correct it.Nicola Willis: Point of order Mr Speaker. SPEAKER: A new point of order? Nicola Willis: Yes. I just seek leave to table a document. The document is the letter I have received from you Mr Speaker on 20 June which sets out your concerns that you have written to the Minister of Finance on the matter discussed in the letter advising him he should not be using the Official Information Act to consider whether to release information requested in the written question. You have—SPEAKER: Leave has been sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none. It may be tabled. Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.