Street Maryan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeStreet Maryan: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 29 May 2014. Volume:699;Page:18482. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]8.Hon MARYAN STREET (Labour) to theMinister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment: What was the problem that needed to be fixed when he proposed to reduce the size of University Councils in the Education Amendment Bill (No. 2)?Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment): New Zealand universities have been doing reasonably well for the last few years but they are operating in an increasingly competitive and challenging international environment. We have therefore been working on a number of initiatives to help maintain and improve their competitiveness and their responsiveness to the needs of students and to improve the quality of the qualifications. Smaller more agile university councils will help New Zealand universities meet strategic challenges like adapting more quickly to the needs of a rapidly changing employment market adapting to new challenges from changing technology in teaching and learning and strengthening their international linkages much more quickly and effectively.Hon Maryan Street: What evidence is there that university councils behave in a less businesslike or efficient manner when their numbers are greater than 12?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: In my previous answer I outlined some of the areas where I think universities could respond more strategically and effectively—as I said a faster adaptation to the needs of a rapidly changing employment market a strengthening of their linkages internationally and dealing with the changing technologies of teaching and learning. All of those things are very important. The member may or may not know it but there has been a 40-year trend to reduce the size of governance bodies whether it is in business in NGOs in charities or in any nature of organisation. That may have passed her by but it has not passed me by.Hon Maryan Street: What evidence is there from the comparable reduction in size of polytechnic councils that their financial performance has improved?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I am glad the member raises that because actually although it is a different change and in fact the polytechnic councils have dropped to a smaller size of eight people what has resulted from that is a very significant improvement in educational performance for students and also a very significant improvement in financial performance for the polytechnics. Also a general endorsement by the polytechnic councils has given a significant and positive direction to the strategic management of the polytechnic sector. So I am glad the member raises it because it is some of the evidence that supports this change.Hon Maryan Street: I seek leave to table a graph from the Auckland University submission on this bill which shows that the financial performance of polytechnics has actually declined since comparable changes—Mr SPEAKER: Order! This is a submission that I understand is on the website and freely available. Is it a submission to a select committee that has been released? Is it a select committee submission?Hon Maryan Street: It is to the select committee.Mr SPEAKER: Yes—then it is publicly available.Hon Maryan Street: Which constituent parts of existing university councils should in his view be excluded by the reduction in council membership—staff students alumni Māori Pasifika business representatives or other community interests?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: My view is that that is a matter the universities can decide on. These are very large organisations with $7.4 billion worth of assets and 173000 students being taught each year. I think we can trust them to decide what the make-up of the councils could be under their constitutions.Hon Maryan Street: Was the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Auckland Stuart McCutcheon wrong when he said of the bill: “The State molested is what we see in this bill. A greater influence of the Minister a lessening of the influence of other legal members of the institution and something that will be to the detriment of our universities ...”; if he is wrong why?Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I think with respect to Stuart the use of the word “molestation” in relation to university councils was way over the top. We are talking of an adjustment in university governance; we are not talking molestation of universities by the State. That sort of hyperbole does him no justice whatsoever. The reality is that these are very moderate changes that will help boost the ability of our universities to respond strategically to a more competitive international environment.