9. Immigration Policy—Numbers and ImpactIAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour—Palmerston North) to the Minister of ImmigrationImmigration Policy—Numbers and Impact9. IAIN LEES-GALLOWAY (Labour—Palmerston North) to the Minister of Immigration: Has he seen any reports that 60 percent of New Zealanders think the Government should let in fewer immigrants; if so why does he think New Zealanders are becoming concerned about immigration?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Immigration): Yes I have seen those reports. There could be many reasons why ranging from genuine concern for New Zealanders' access to the job market confusion between migration and immigration and the fact that current positive migration is being driven predominantly by New Zealanders' movements to sensationalised reporting that neglects the fact that the overwhelming majority of migrants are on temporary visas and will return home as well as some who are being influenced by scaremongering from political parties over things like Chinese-sounding surnames.Hon Steven Joyce: Oh Chinese-sounding surnames!Iain Lees-Galloway: Calm yourself. Why did the Minister dismiss the concerns raised by the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment and Treasury that We have seen increasing numbers of migrants working in lower-skilled occupations with lower pay."?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: On the contrary those concerns were not dismissed and are constantly being addressed by the continuous nipping and tucking of immigration policy to ensure that it is fit for purpose. The best examples of that I would suggest are the 56 occupations that have been removed from skills shortages lists since 2013 whereas only five have been added on. I think that reflects a very important issue.Iain Lees-Galloway: Why did the Government approve work visas for 2700 sales workers last year when there are already 23000 unemployed sales workers right here in New Zealand?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: It is difficult for me to give the exact reasons but I would suggest that there were two main reasons. One was that those work visas were not subject to a labour market test if for example they were the partners of people who were already here. They may have also been in areas where there is chronic short supply of labour notwithstanding the job seekers that Mr Lees-Galloway suggests—I do not know whether the number is 23000 given that overall job seeker numbers at the moment are hovering around 50000. I would hazard a guess that there were not half of them who were looking for sales rep jobs. But the point is that it is important to look through the numbers and make sure that the reasons for those work visas being granted are understood.Iain Lees-Galloway: Why did the Government approve work visas for 6500 labourers last year when there are 23000 unemployed labourers right here in New Zealand ready to work?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: So we are down 23000 unemployed labourers and 23000 unemployed sales workers. That represents just about 100 percent of job seeker support numbers right now. I would suggest those numbers be viewed with a great deal of caution. The simple answer to the question is that there was not a New Zealander available to do the job in the place where the work was. And I note further that we have now moved a long way away from the "Where are the jobs?" call because the jobs are definitely being made by a growing economy in this country.Iain Lees-Galloway: Why is the Government issuing work visas to fill the jobs that tens of thousands of unemployed Kiwis want—a policy that leaves new migrants vulnerable and that leads to fewer jobs with lower wages for Kiwis?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: I am very glad to note that the Labour Party is now acknowledging that there are jobs for every single New Zealander who wants them in this growing economy but it would be naive to think that there were not barriers to employment for some of those New Zealanders. The Minister of Tertiary Education Skills and Employment the Minister for Social Development and I are working extremely hard to remove those barriers whether they be geography training skills or recreational drug and alcohol use which needs to be addressed before they are ready for work. We are working hard to make sure that every young New Zealander is fit for work.Ron Mark: Is the Minister surprised that he has so many anti-immigration questions from Labour these days given that previous Labour leaders have so viciously attacked New Zealand First and Winston Peters on the very same topic?Chris Hipkins: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order! I will hear from Mr Chris Hipkins.Chris Hipkins: The Minister is not responsible for questions that the Opposition asks.Mr SPEAKER: No I cannot see that there is any ministerial responsibility anyway. We are moving on.Ron Mark: Is the Minister confused by reports from political parties that have formed a coalition recently when we have questions such as this and he is being asked to answer questions such as this and then the leader of the Green Party James Shaw goes on radio and says—Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no ministerial responsibility whatsoever. [Interruption] Order!Ron Mark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: Order! It is a point of order but I hope it is not in any way contesting a decision that I have just made.Ron Mark: No I just need your assurance Mr Speaker that when Ministers are asked whether they have read reports on issues that affect their portfolio that going forward such questions will stand as legitimate.Hon Gerry Brownlee: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. There is absolutely no way that a scrap between Labour the Greens and New Zealand First affects the Minister's portfolio.Mr SPEAKER: I was hoping that I might get something useful from Mr Brownlee and I guess that in some ways I have. It is not only the words "have you seen any reports" that matter it is the total context of the question and there is simply no ministerial responsibility.Ron Mark: What difference is there between his immigration policy and his Government's beliefs on immigration and those being extolled by his Opposition party right up until that poll came out?Mr SPEAKER: Again there is no ministerial responsibility."