Collins JudithHon JUDITH COLLINS (National—Papakura): Thank you Madam Speaker—an excellent choice. So this is a bill that the National Party will support. We are the party of small business we are the party of entrepreneurs and we're the party who understands that this is actually a small amount of money compared to the massive costs that have been put on to small businesses—but it is still significant. And it doesn't bear scrutiny to say as I've seen some submitters have said that it should be self-regulated it should be this it should be fine the Government shouldn't do this. We're looking at 12000 businesses closed permanently; I'm not sure any of those were in the first three months before the Delta lockdown. Twelve thousand businesses closed permanently; I'm not sure any of those were anything other than small businesses because it's the small businesses who don't have the ability to just keep on going to get some extra borrowing to get the shareholders to put in more funds to be able to capitalise themselves better—actually it's the small businesses who have failed. And they haven't so much failed but they've had to shut their doors.If you walk down Lambton Quay during the daytime if you walk down Queen Street during the daytime if you walk down any city or town in New Zealand all over New Zealand we have small businesses that have closed up in the last two years. That is not their fault. We know that we have been through and still are at the tail-end of a pandemic. But we also know that those businesses have employed people; they've paid the wages also to the owners of those businesses many of whom work in their businesses or did work in them; they've paid the mortgages on their homes; they've paid school fees; they've paid for everything their children need. And those businesses have now died. It is simply irresponsible to think that this bill is going to solve that issue; it will help but for many businesses it's too late.The Government talked about this in 2020. They said this is what they were going to do to help small businesses as they were putting up the minimum wage as they were adding extra costs on. What's actually happened is in that time while we've been waiting for this bill to come to Parliament and to come through the House more businesses have had to shut their doors.What is important to also remember—and Andrew Bayly alluded to this I thought very well—is that the move has been made during the pandemic away from cash to card. That is simply a fact of life. Even though cash is legal tender and even though people should have to be able to have their cash accepted the practice has now come in many businesses whether it's a cafe selling coffees and lunch or larger businesses where they won't accept cash. Primarily that is around fear of COVID.It's also around the fact that these banks the big banks—oh and Kiwibank—have in my cases shut up shop in our suburban New Zealand and in the Queen Streets and in the Lambton Quays. So for instance in Papakura in my electorate there are now no trading banks open. That is a part of Auckland that is growing substantially and yet trading banks if you're a business owner and receive cash and you have to bank that cash for number one your own safety but also to make you're complying with all the regulations and rules that you now have and to make sure that you don't suddenly have this cash disappear or you're subject to a burglary because people know you keep cash at home—you have to go down to Manukau. So you have to go all that way at some time during the couple of hours a day that the bank is going to be open.I saw this recently where I went to see when this bank was open and there it was: two hours three days a week. That's a major city—well it was Manukau—a major part of Auckland a major part of New Zealand. It is really important we understand that things have changed. They've changed substantially for the way in which banks operate and the way in which small business has been forced to operate to cope and to adapt to the circumstances. So therefore looking at the submissions what's pretty clear to me is that the National Party—and I believe the Government too—favour the submissions of the hospitality association the restaurateurs the people who end up accepting cards because there is no choice.I think it's also important that we look at the fact that the Commerce Commission will now be involved because do we really have that much competition between the major providers of interchange services between the Visas and the Mastercards? No doubt they believe that we do. But if you're a merchant do you really have that sort of competition? Do you really get to choose who you use or what you pay? The answer is that for many people they actually don't. So I think it is important that we accept that this will help some small businesses those that are still going. It will however not solve the problem. It will not reinvent the way in which business operates. It is simply accepting that there is no good reason for New Zealand to be paying double the cost of Australian businesses to do the same thing.I was really disturbed too to read that smaller merchants such as one- or two-person businesses are paying in many cases higher fees than those of the larger institutions like the supermarkets those that have the huge volume coming through. For some people that might make perfect sense because the large volume is a better operating model for the interchange holders the card holders and providers than say many smaller businesses. But actually when cash is taken out of the equation—or almost taken out of the equation—that is simply not acceptable. That is where we do need to have some legislation.So I think it's a good thing to do this. It helps restore some sense of interoperability between small businesses in Australia and New Zealand but also it tends to give some understanding that while our major banks have all been able to benefit in many ways from nobody marching in the streets against bank closures or anything else or the cheques that have now disappeared from circulation—a petition which I recall Andrew Bayly took up for many people in our electorates who still don't have access to online banking in some cases because there is no broadband—Andrew Bayly: Don't recall much support from the other side.Hon JUDITH COLLINS: There was no support from the Government actually Andrew Bayly. They've left people without any other means to do their banking. So it is really important that we consider these small businesses that we consider the people who use those small businesses.Before I rose to speak I wondered whether or not there were some of us who might feel we have a minor conflict of interest given our dedication towards the economy and making it grow but I thought that probably in the scheme of things there's no more conflict of interest than there is for any other New Zealander who is nowadays forced to pay with a card rather than cash. Thank you Madam Speaker.