Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:610;Page:7297] 
5.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (NZ National—Ilam) 
 to the  
Minister of Local Government 
: How does he reconcile the two different versions of the  
You and Your Council 
 pamphlet one for Maori that states: “The old Local Government Act didn’t include anything about Maori or the Treaty of Waitangi. The new Act has a number of references to Maori and a Treaty section explaining why there are Maori provisions in the Act.” while the other pamphlet says: “Local authorities do not have Treaty of Waitangi obligations under the Local Government Act (those responsibilities lie with the Crown)”? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Local Government) 
: 
 This matter was brought to my attention for the first time yesterday. Although there is nothing incorrect in either brochure I agree they could be misconstrued. Yesterday I telephoned the Secretary for Local Government and he assured me that no more copies of the current edition of the brochure would be distributed. A second edition will contain clear and consistent messages. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Who was the person who authorised the printing and did this pamphlet ever come before the Minister’s office prior to it being printed and distributed? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: This brochure was put out by the Department of Internal Affairs. I was aware that publicity material was being prepared on the Local Government Act but at no time were the different presentations of the treaty in each brochure brought to my attention until yesterday. As soon as I found out about it I acted on it. 
Dr Ashraf Choudhary 
: Why did the Department of Internal Affairs distribute brochures on the new Act? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The department administers the new Local Government Act and part of the department’s job is to explain what the Act says. The brochure was prepared to inform members of the public including Maori about the new Act so that they could take full advantage of the new participatory and consultation processes that are now available. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given that local bodies will now have to have regard to the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi and given the aspiration that all local bodies from the top of the North Island to the bottom of the South Island will be acting in unison on this matter could he explain what the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi are that local bodies are going to be paying regard to? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The Local Government Act makes clear that the Crown not local government is the treaty partner. However it requires local authorities to have processes in place to consult Maori and to consider ways to foster Maori capacity to participate in decision-making processes. There are no other obligations on councils or on Maori. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not want to belabour the point but I asked him what the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi were that local bodies are going to now have regard to. [ 
Interruption 
] It is in the legislation. That being the case I would like an answer. He made no attempt to address the question which I have asked numerous Ministers and now him. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thought the Minister did address the question and gave an answer. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: What does the Minister say to the assertion that these new annual council pamphlets are a further example of the duplicity created by this Government’s policies whereby one message is given to Maori and a contradictory message is given to non-Maori; and is this an example of this Government’s win-win scenarios? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I hope I have made it clear to this House that as soon as I became aware that there could be a misconstrued message I acted quickly to withdraw the pamphlet. 
Stephen Franks 
: Which pamphlet is true when Maori already have the same opportunities as every other New Zealander to vote and to make submissions to councils yet section 81 of the Local Government Act reads: “(1) A local authority must—(a) establish and maintain processes to provide opportunities for Maori to contribute to decision-making processes of the local authority;”; do Maori have special race rights or not? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: In fact both pamphlets are correct in that they urge that councils engage with the Maori community to have it participate in decision-making processes. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not want to be pedantic but we have just had two questions in a row granted to the ACT party. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Yes I made a mistake so I call the member now. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: If the Minister is prepared to stand in this House and say both positions are correct then what is going to be changed in these pamphlets; and if his senior officials are so confused about this part of the Act that they cannot write something that is clear what does that say about the Act itself and will he look to repeal it as well? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: As I made clear in my initial answer technically both pamphlets are correct but I recognise and accept there is a possibility that they may be misconstrued and that is why I pulled both pamphlets. They will be re-released with a consistent and clear message. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Given his particular responsibilities could he tell us specifically whether he and his Government believe there should be a separate electoral system for Maori? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: We believe that Maori should participate in decision-making processes. Local authorities now have the flexibility to devise a variety of processes to do that. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I asked him for a specific answer as to whether he and his Government believe—seeing that he is the Minister of Local Government—in a separate electoral system for Maori. In that answer he made no attempt to address what is a very real question for New Zealanders today. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Does the Minister want to add to his answer? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I am assuming that by an electoral system the member means one that exists currently in New Zealand. I would say—and I think everyone in this House would accept—that Maori should be able to participate in a local body election for territorial local authorities. They may use a variety of different processes to do that but they would be participating in the one system. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The last words answered the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not asking about the participatory levels of Maori in a franchise whether it be nationwide or local. I am asking whether the Government believes in a separate electoral system for Maori—yes or no—when it comes to local government? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Members cannot dictate the form of the answer. The Minister is entitled to say what he believes as long as it is relevant and the last words of his answer were strictly relevant to the question the member asked. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. If that is true then does he or does he not believe in a separate system? None of us knows. No one on this side knows what the answer is so how could he have answered the question? I asked him to address his answer to this specific question: does he believe yes or no in a separate electoral system for Maori when it comes to local government? What is the answer? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I thought that the Minister gave an answer to that question. Whether it satisfies the member is something that is outside my control. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Did he see a draft of this pamphlet or these pamphlets prior to their being published? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I saw a mock-up of the brochure at a weekly departmental officials meeting. I did not scrutinise it closely. I certainly will next time. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Noting that the offending pamphlets have now been withdrawn from circulation I seek leave of the House to table the copies we have. 
Documents by leave laid on the Table of the House.