Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:625;Page:20532] 
3.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay Of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Police 
: Does he stand by all the answers he has given in the House since the Iraena Asher case now that the report on the review into the 111 system has been released? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Police 
: Yes. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Why does the Minister stand by his comment in the House that there are no ghost squads in the New Zealand Police in light of the communications centre report that states that the police are switching calls to dummy units? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The Minister of Police made it clear at the time that there are Intel nodes. They take calls that do not require urgent— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: What’s the difference between a dummy and a ghost? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: If the member would pause and listen I will give him the answer. There are Intel—[ 
Interruption 
] It is not good enough for the member to keep interjecting. If he wants to hear the answer he will shut up and listen. The Intel node is there to take calls from the police that are not urgent calls and that do not need immediate follow-up but that are important to log in on an intelligence basis so that the police can determine where crimes are happening and can respond with their overall strategy to ensure that where there are hot spots they give attention to them. 
Martin Gallagher 
: Has the Minister received any reports on cuts to 111 communications centre staff? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: Yes I have received a report and it is quite disturbing. I have a report here dated 23 May 1999 in which the Police Association revealed plans to cut 285 non-sworn staff including those who answer 111 calls. That of course was under a National Government. When Tony Ryall—the man now complaining about the inadequacy of resources—was Minister of Justice he voted to support a cut in the staff who answered 111 calls. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: When the Minister of Police said on television last night— 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I am sorry to interrupt the member but one of his fellow front-benchers interjected and said that I was making that up. [ 
Interruption 
] He has just repeated that and he is has just interrupted my point of order as well. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is true! 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I seek leave then at the end of this question to table the document wherein the Police Association revealed plans to cut 285 non-sworn staff including those who answered 111 calls. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Point of order— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: We have the seeking of leave to table a document. I will take that first and then the point of order. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek clarification. Where in the document does it state as he said that Tony Ryall the Minister of Justice at the time voted for that? There is no evidence of that in the document the Minister has. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: That is not relevant to the tabling of the document so we will deal with that matter first. Leave has been sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. It will not be tabled. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: When the Minister of Police said on television last night that the findings in the report were “the fault of the police in many ways” which police was he referring to? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The report of course makes it clear that most of the areas that need remedying are operational areas. Where the responsibility is that of the Government in terms of resourcing that money has already been granted—the $45.5 million plus $3.4 million for capital expenditure. I applaud the Minister of Police for securing that money. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: Has this Minister of Police not shown himself to be completely unworthy of the post and an embarrassment to his colleagues; and if he had one ounce of integrity would he not go? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The answer to that is no and at the end of the Minister of Police’s tenure he will not face a referendum by the public of New Zealand as happened embarrassingly at the end of Tony Ryall’s term as Minister of Justice in 1999 when the public voted 92 percent in favour of their having no confidence in the justice policies led at that time by Mr Ryall. 
Marc Alexander 
: What responsibility does the Minister of Police accept for his lack of leadership in tackling systemic resource and management deficits in the 111 system debacle and is not his praise of the commissioner’s performance simply a case of the rat clinging to flotsam while the police ship sinks? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I think that it is wrong for any member to suggest that our police force is not one of the best police forces in the world. That does not mean to say it is perfect. It has its faults but it has an openness whereby it can itself ask for an independent review of a system that was not working and then commit itself to act on that review. The Minister of Police has been far more successful than any of his predecessors as he has been able to get nearly $50 million to give us the best system in the world. When the report’s recommendations are implemented we will have just that. 
Ron Mark 
: Following on from the Minister’s own answers if we have the best police force in the world and if we have the best systems in the world where does the fault really lie: is it with the Government as a whole for the failure to provide the resources the police have consistently said they need is it with the Minister or is it possibly the fault of the citizens of New Zealand for ever daring to have any confidence in this Government or in the 111 system? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The people of this country have every right to expect that there will be an effective an efficient and a swift response to genuine emergencies when a 111 call is made. The review report makes the point as the member will know from reading it that the problems that we faced in New Zealand were very similar to problems facing other police forces around the world in the area of emergency call centres. I noted with pleasure the statement made today by the chair of the review panel that he congratulated the commissioner on responding so effectively to the recommendations of the report.