Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Ryall Tony: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:616;Page:11915] 
7.  
Hon TONY RYALL (National—Bay of Plenty) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: What is the total cost over the past 4 years for iwi expenditure for each of the Northland Spring Hill Auckland women’s and Otago regional corrections facilities including payments for cultural advisory services tikanga advice iwi communication and other cultural assessment or management activities? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 The total cost of iwi expenditure over the past 4 years is Northland $467985; Auckland women’s facility $133747; Spring Hill $1313000.01; and Otago $49668. I am advised these payments are not broken down according to the categories the member has described. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: What limits will he place on this public largesse and how do we know that anything will change when the Minister says the spending is excessive but his department denies that and says the costs were appropriate? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Firstly it is still my view that the spending is excessive. That is the reason why I have called for the report. The second thing I will say is that as the member knows I have asked for future commitments to be brought to me for justification. I think as far as largesse is concerned it has to be said that approximately $277000 was spent by the previous National Government on consultation over the Northland prison between 1997 and 1999 before any concrete was actually poured. 
Martin Gallagher 
: Can the Minister outline to this House why we are building four new prisons? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: Yes. My colleague the Minister of Justice has recently released new prison forecasts that show a 20 percent increase in the prison population in the next decade to 7400 inmates. This is in part due to the Government being tough on crime by changing the Bail Act the Sentencing Act and the Parole Act. This has resulted in longer sentences for the worst offenders and fewer offenders being granted bail. This means that four new prisons are needed. 
Rodney Hide 
: When investigating this excessive spending by his department will he include an investigation of the Department of Corrections payments to the company Jagcon over 4 years of $1860514—a company owned by John Hamilton the project manager for the prisons—or is he just worried about excessive Maori spending? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I will be looking at that matter but I can say that Mr Hamilton is an engineer and a former Department of Corrections person so he is well qualified to look across the four sites as part of his brief. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Does the Minister agree with the guarantee that the Hon Matt Robson gave this House on 15 May 2002 that the $245000 annual contract offered to the Waikato Raupatu Lands Trust to consult over the Spring Hill Corrections Facility would be “used wisely” and in the light of recent revelations does he now have a different view? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I have never said that some of this consultation is not justified. In fact consultation as the member will know is required under the Resource Management Act. I am looking into some of the individual figures that as I have said before I consider to be excessive. 
Hon Tony Ryall 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My colleague Dr Hutchison asked a very specific question as to a ministerial undertaking given by the Minister’s predecessor. The Minister did not answer that question. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am sorry; I thought he did address that question. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does it concern the Minister that over $1 million has been paid out to Mr John Hamilton in just 4 years without a tender process and with no accountability measures in place or does he not know about that either? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: There are most certainly accountability measures. The member has to realise that these four prisons are the biggest expenditure on corrections facilities that New Zealand has seen for a long period of time. They are complicated projects and it is important that they get up and under way as quickly as possible. From what I have seen Mr Hamilton has done a good job. 
Dr Paul Hutchison 
: Does he regard it as wise standard practice to pay a Tom Moana $131000 for consultation services which includes $120 an hour plus mileage for driving to Waitangi and back and $120 an hour for reading and research given that he was the same man who in the same year as he was collecting the money was convicted of 53 counts of fraud? 
Hon PAUL SWAIN 
: I am aware of the things that member has said and that is one of the things I will be looking into extremely closely.