Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Just a further sort of clarification around the meaning of screen production worker which is set out in clause 11. Again one of the arguments put forward for this bill is that it's a low-paid industry and of course the regulatory impact statement points out on the post-production side that highly skilled workers are in high demand globally and earn on average $150000 annually which most New Zealanders wouldn't describe as a poorly paid industry. So I just wondered whether he'd given any consideration to limiting this to the production side as opposed to the post-production side and if not why not and how far it goes. I mean does it include the people in charge of transport the contractors there the contractors for catering? Broadly speaking all these elements being sort of contracts does it mean the hotels that people stay in and the workers in the hotels the planes they go in—I don't know. All these issues I suppose it's just a sort of a question of the rationale for where he drew the line in this legislation including production and post-production and what he was trying to achieve by that would be useful. So if we come back to the broader point this is legislation that's been quiet for a couple of years. The Minister mentioned COVID but of course this was introduced early in 2020—Marja Lubeck: That was kind of when COVID started.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Pardon?Marja Lubeck: That was kind of when COVID started.Hon Willie Jackson: Do you understand that or are you just stupid in the head?Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: No; I didn't pick up what the member was saying.Hon Willie Jackson: Oh you can't understand English!Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: Oh ah—Hon Willie Jackson: You don't understand anything.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH: —and I'm coming under withering fire from Willie Jackson who I thought had only one topic which is the new democracy that nobody had voted for but obviously he has other topics that he can talk about.So anyway getting back to this bill I'd be keen to get some better understandings from the Minister about the nature of the screen production workers so we can get a better idea about that because just remember that all these people most of whom are individual contractors—this bill proposes to do away with that basic sort of section of the Commerce Act which says that independent sort of contractors and different companies cannot and should not collude or form cartels to negotiate things. So we're taking a slice out of our economy and a kind of random one which sort of goes out from all sorts of directions—there is transport and catering and post-production and presumably marketing of movies; I don't know—and extracts them from very important provisions in the Commerce Act. So I just wanted to sort of get a sense of why he chose to include what he included and what his thinking was behind that.Hon MICHAEL WOOD (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): In respect of the question about why the workers who are included in the provisions of this bill are there I have responded to that in previous answers. It may not be to the satisfaction of members opposite but I have provided that response.In answer to the questions that both Mr O'Connor and Mr Goldsmith asked about peripheral sort of work as a security guard or a catering company that delivers the odd meal or someone like that those types of worker are specifically considered to be peripheral within the terms of the Act and are not captured by its collective bargaining provisions.In respect of the questions around timing I've actually just confirmed for myself that the commencement of the bill of course is not actually covered in Part 1 so we can I'm sure talk about that later on in the debate when we do get to the relevant part there.In respect of broader costs and benefits those are reflected in the regulatory impact statement. The costs are generally assessed to be in the low to medium zone. And of course the main thing I would note in respect of this and in respect of our engagement with international production houses is that this is the norm internationally. It's generally normal that workers in this sector are able to collectively bargain. What's actually abnormal in this case was that the previous Government took that right away from workers in New Zealand. So I don't think there's anything that's going to be particularly alarming to international companies who deal with this on every production they do in most other countries to have to do the same thing here in New Zealand.In respect of game developers—there was a particular question around them—they were included in the provisions of the—we're using the colloquial term here so I'll carry on using it—Hobbit law" and so they've carried over in that respect."