Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:635;Page:6632] 
9.  
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
 to the  
Minister of Housing 
: Why is he asking Housing New Zealand Corporation to engage a squad who will “look into allegations of subletting” and set up “a central file listing all details of those found subletting their homes” and why has such action not been taken until now? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing) 
: 
 In my letter of expectation that I sent to the board of the Housing New Zealand Corporation for the 2006-07 financial year I asked for advice on ways to improve the utilisation of our housing stock. The corporation reported to me in September and I agreed to the appointment of a new team of up to six specialist case managers who will primarily work with market rent tenants to identify alternative housing options thus freeing up properties for priority tenants on the State house waiting list. 
Phil Heatley 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My question which was put down very early today specifically asked twice about subletting. The Minister did not address the squad working on subletting issues and I would ask him to do so. He has had several hours to prepare for that. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thought the Minister did address subletting. Is that the point? 
Phil Heatley 
: He talked about high-income tenants in State homes which is a matter that I canvassed in March. I am asking about subletting. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the Minister please clarify that. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: My understanding is that the member asked me a question about a special squad that is dealing with the issue of market renters. We set it up in September. 
Phil Heatley 
: How can the Minister understand that I am asking a question about a squad dealing with high-income tenants when the question on the sheet—and it has been there for several hours now—mentions subletting twice? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the Minister like to clarify precisely what his answer relates to. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The squad that will be looking at working with and encouraging people paying market rents to find other housing options and that will be looking at any allegations of subletting was set up in September. 
Phil Heatley 
: Why on Thursday last week did he deny that widespread subletting rorts existed cynically asking the National Party to gather cases and do the job for him yet on Friday he announced a squad and a database to track such illegal activity—why the sudden U-turn on subletting? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The alleged squad which is actually a group of six tenancy managers who will work with market renters was set up in September. I repeat the answer I gave last Thursday: that member has yet to front up with a single case. 
Tim Barnett 
: How successful has the Housing New Zealand Corporation been in securing better use of its 67000 homes? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: New tenancies are allocated to priority applicants on the waiting list with 98.1 percent of new tenants last month qualifying for income-related rent. Last year tenancy managers made efficiency savings worth almost $300 million by encouraging tenants to relocate to smaller properties and encouraging market renters to move into private rental properties or homeownership. The new team of specialist case managers will be able to focus on the remaining market renters who now are only 9 percent of all tenants—tenants who I might add were taken on board mostly during the time of the National Government. 
Phil Heatley 
: Why did the Housing New Zealand Corporation say a central file of illegal subletting had not been set up before now because such situations were extremely rare and why has illegal subletting increased so much under this Minister’s watch that a central file is needed now? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I remind the House again that that member in spite of his allegations is yet to front up with one single example. The corporation advises that cases of subletting are very rare which is why I did not consider it a valid use of resources to have staff comb through all 67000 tenancy files on a wild goose chase for that member. However I have asked for records to be kept centrally in the future to give the public greater confidence. I remind the House again that such cases are extremely rare and that that member has yet to front up with one. 
Phil Heatley 
: Why did the Minister say that recent illegal occupations were “not isolated incidents” and that similar issues “appear to be arising regularly around the country”; why are they arising regularly by his own admission; and why are they increasing under his watch? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: We seem now to have moved from subletting to illegal occupations. Anybody who illegally occupies a Housing New Zealand Corporation house will be removed. Again that is a rare situation and the member fails again to produce any statistics. Perhaps he has been spending too much time having coffees with Nicky Hager. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I say to the Minister that that was totally irrelevant to the answer. I remind members who are asking supplementary questions that if they ask more than one question they are unlikely always to get a satisfactory answer to all of them. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Has the Minister read the claim made by Mr Heatley in the newspapers that he knows of—and I quote him—“countless cases”; if that is the case why has the Minister not done his job and written to personally called upon or emailed Mr Heatley to ask him for just a few examples in writing? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: That is an excellent question. Yes I am still waiting for Mr Heatley to front up with a single example. Come on Phil where are the statistics? 
Phil Heatley 
: How bad have subletting rorts and high-income-earner rorts got given that the Minister is now asking for a dedicated squad to “look into allegations of subletting” and to set up “a central file listing all details of those found subletting their homes”; how bad has it got for this U-turn to happen? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The member alleges he has had many examples given to him. All I can do is to ask the member to please give me one. 
Phil Heatley 
: How many State homes is he hoping to free up for needy—[ 
Interruption 
] Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Well members from your own party are causing the disruption at the moment. [ 
Interruption 
] Yes they are—the back row again. Please give Phil Heatley the courtesy of allowing him to ask the question. 
Phil Heatley 
: Why is the Minister continuing to deny in this House that there is a subletting problem when he has asked that a squad be engaged to “look into allegations of subletting” and for “a central file listing all details of those found subletting their homes”? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: The squad we are talking about is working with State house tenants who are paying market rents to find them other pathways—either homeownership or private rentals—in order to free up our stock. Allegations have been made in this House about widespread subletting. I have not had any examples from Mr Heatley; I would welcome them. Any tenant who breaks the law will be dealt with accordingly. 
Phil Heatley 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. How can the Minister possibly say that that squad and database are for high-income tenants when I had to prove to the Clerk that the Minister had said clearly that the squad is to investigate subletting and to keep a database of those subletting? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I have listened very carefully and I think the Minister has addressed the issue several times. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table a statement made by the Minister—after a U-turn last week—that he has a squad looking at subletting and is going to set up a database. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I ask you to have a look later today at the  
Hansard 
 of that particular question exchange. My colleague Mr Heatley makes a very important point: we cannot get a question on the question sheet each day without our proving the veracity of the content of the question. The content of this question was about the Minister setting up a special squad and the information provided to the Clerk was a quote from the Minister. It becomes an utter nonsense when a question like that is put down on the Order Paper and has taken a lot of time and the Minister comes in here and simply says the squad is not for that and virtually says he did not say it. That is completely unreasonable Madam Speaker. So I simply ask you to look at the  
Hansard 
 of the exchange when giving your own response to Mr Heatley’s point of order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes I will because I clearly recall the Minister saying that the squad was to include those matters. I will look at it but I did distinctly hear that because I had asked the Minister to address the question again.