Hartley Ann: Government Superannuation Fund Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee 
Hartley Ann: Government Superannuation Fund Amendment Bill (No 2) — In Committee 
[Volume:606;Page:3844] 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Would the member please be seated. I am trying to rule on this matter. Dr Cullen made certain comments and this is my final comment because I have ruled on it before. I did not consider Dr Cullen’s comments offensive. Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith made certain comments. I ruled that I did not consider them offensive and I continued. I ask members to desist from reflections on the Chair generally. It is not acceptable. I do not need any further assistance on this matter. That is the end of this point of order. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Is this a new point of order? 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Yes it is actually. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I have ruled on the points of order and I would remind the member— 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I appreciate that but I suggest to you that we cannot let the matter stay where it now is. I believe that Mr Hide as strongly as he feels was still wrong to suggest that you are being intimidated. I do not think it is for you just to say you are not intimidated. I think that comment requires him to withdraw and apologise. Even if you are not going to require that of Government members I think Mr Hide should be asked to withdraw and apologise for suggesting the Chair is being intimidated. We cannot allow that to happen. I suggest to you that even though you have ruled on the earlier point I do believe that with regard to the remarks Mr Hide made even though he feels very strongly about the matter he should be asked to withdraw and apologise for suggesting that the Chair is being intimidated. 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Are you speaking to Mr Prebble’s point of order? 
Hon Roger Sowry 
: Yes I am. I tried to raise this before the Hon Richard Prebble got to his feet because I certainly found Mr Hide’s comments grossly offensive. To stand in the Chamber and accuse the Chair of being intimidated by Dr Cullen is not a position that any member should find himself or herself in just as I found Dr Cullen’s waving and yelling to Dr the Hon Lockwood Smith to sit down and that he was bullying the Chair equally grossly offensive.  
I ask you to consider this. You are one of a small group of officers of Parliament charged with the responsibility of keeping order in this Chamber. To do that not only do you require the confidence of the major party in the Chamber you require the confidence of all parties. To carry out your role effectively you must also ensure that you are protecting the role of deputy chair and Chair. It is just not acceptable for any member of any party be it the Minister sitting beside you or Mr Hide down the other end of the Chamber or anyone else by way of interjection to carry on and imply that the Chair is being bullied or put under undue influence. If we allow this to happen tonight it will by its nature creep into the parliamentary process. We will find another Chair sitting here tomorrow and we will have speeches where people start to talk about whether the Chair is being influenced.  
I put it to you that that is clearly covered in the Standing Orders and that it would be grossly out of order. Mr Speaker would not allow someone to give a speech and during that speech talk about whether he or she was being influenced by other members of this Parliament and we should not allow it to creep into this House by way of point of order. It has happened twice now once by Dr Cullen and once by Mr Hide. Both of the comments were offensive.  
I take the point that you are strong enough to say you are not offended and you will let it wash over your head. But it brings your position into disrepute—not you as an individual but the position. My appeal to you tonight is to uphold the principles around the position and to require both members who have engaged in that behaviour to cease and to withdraw and apologise. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: I thank the member for his assistance. He does make some correct points but I go back to the original point that I ruled on. Dr Cullen raised a point and Dr Lockwood Smith raised a point which I did not feel I needed and I did not accept. As to the point that Mr Hide raised—yes in retrospect I think he should withdraw and apologise. Speaker’s ruling 15/1 is very clear on this matter: “(1) It is out of order for a member to suggest that the Speaker is defending the Government—such a statement must be withdrawn unreservedly; (2) or that the Speaker has endeavoured to curtail the reply of a member; (3) or to bring the Speaker’s name and opinions into a debate.” That has happened. I think it is a point that Mr Hide should withdraw and apologise on and that is the end of the matter. 
Rodney Hide 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. To the person who took offence I withdraw and apologise. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Thank you.