Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Brownlee Gerry: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:615;Page:11290] 
4.  
GERRY BROWNLEE (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does she stand by her reported claim that to advocate that New Zealanders should be dealt with on the basis of need not race is “divisive” and “a desperate campaign by a beleaguered party”; if not why not? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK (Prime Minister) 
: 
 I stand by my view that the Orewa speech set out to divide New Zealanders against each other. Media coverage since would suggest it has and that is not something the National Party should be proud of. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Given her Government’s spectacular U-turn on these issues does she stick by her statement made in the House on 17 February that: “I have no second thoughts about a policy approach designed to pit white against brown and rich against poor in New Zealand. I will fight that to my last breath.”; if so does she now admit that her Government’s policies have been designed to pit white against brown or is this U-turn just a desperate move by her desperate and beleaguered Government? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I certainly will fight to the death against those policies of privilege preached by the Opposition because I happen to have a vision of society where people work together and do not set out—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not mind the odd interjection but there are far too many. The Prime Minister is quite entitled to have an answer I can hear—some interjection yes but that sort of interjection no. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I happen to have a vision for a society where we go forward together and do not see policies based on privilege for the rich leaving a large marginalised brown underclass in their wake. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Does the Prime Minister have any reports that suggest that before the Orewa speech regardless of its content Dr Brash had ever raised anything to do with the Treaty of Waitangi or those issues in his maiden speech or at any subsequent time before the Orewa speech? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have been around politics a long time and I can certainly remember no such previous interest by Dr Brash—ever. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Does the Prime Minister agree with the statement made by Jonathan Milne in the  
Sunday Star-Times  
that one of the justifications for special assistance is “that Maori have never recovered from having their entire economic base taken in the 19th century”; if so does she agree that the current National Party campaign relies on the denial of colonisation and dispossession? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: On many occasions I have found myself not in agreement with Mr Milne but I would agree that dispossession of the poor is something the National Party is very interested in continuing while it redistributes towards the rich in this country. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Was she sincere when she said that to advocate that New Zealanders should be dealt with on the basis of need not race to quote her is “divisive” and “a desperate campaign of a beleaguered party”—was she sincere when she made those comments some weeks back; if not why has she changed her mind? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I said from the outset when that speech was leaked to the Government that it set out to be divisive. It has been divisive and anyone looking at our media in the last month can see what it has done and the bruised and hurt feelings of Maori throughout this country. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: In light of the comments referred to in the original question and also the Prime Minister’s comments yesterday that the consensus relating to treatment of issues concerning Maori had been shattered what steps does the Prime Minister now think ought to be taken to re-establish a national consensus on that issue? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: As the member says I have indeed referred to the shattering of what has been a consensus between Governments for many years on how these kinds of issues are approached and I have referred to the need to find a new balance. I think there is a time now for voices of reason and moderation and I look forward to working with the member on that because I know that is where he stakes his place in politics. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Will the Prime Minister admit that her new position on divisive legislation is motivated by polling information or will she tell the House that she has agreed all along with Dr Brash and her new Coordinating Minister Race Relations who told the  
Dominion Post 
: “The treaty is in quite a few Acts and there are principles sitting there quite inconsistently and in some cases incoherently”; if not why not? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have seldom found myself in agreement with Dr Brash on anything because he brings a lot of baggage to this job across privatisation pension cuts and many other things that are abhorrent to me. So the last thing I would find myself in agreement with him on is his setting out to divide Kiwis on this basis. 
Gerrard Eckhoff 
: What principle has driven the U-turn by her Government from race to needs-based and why does she not accept that she and her Government were completely out of step with 90 percent of New Zealanders and indeed with the centre-right of this nation? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I pride myself on being out of step with the right 100 percent of the time. That whole question has a false assumption which is that this Government and Governments before it have set out to divide on the grounds of race. That is not so. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Will she concede that it is her Government’s policies in particular her policies around the seabed and foreshore which are proving to be an absolute debacle that have led to the huge buy-in to the issues raised by Dr Brash to such an extent that she has tried to change this debate into a racial issue going to the extreme extent of appointing Mr Mallard of all people as the Coordinating Minister Race Relations? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The questioner could not possibly have said those words with a straight face and he did not. I have said throughout on foreshore and seabed— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I said them with a straight face and I seek leave to say them again. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the member is overdoing it a little bit. The member has sought leave. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: The member’s face was as straight as it was when he went around south Auckland and would not admit to a single Maori group that he would cut its funding which we saw on  
20/20 
. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: That’s right. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: “That’s right.” he says—and that is where we get specific. There is not a single thing he would change. That is the truth. Addressing the issue of the foreshore and seabed I have gone the length and breadth of the country over the past 8 to 9 months saying that this Government will not settle for exclusive possession going into the hands of any group but that we will also respect customary rights—and I heard Mr Brownlee on  
Morning Report 
 this morning say there are customary rights that should be respected. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Can I ask the Prime Minister as to whether— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Grasping at straws. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member is very very lucky indeed. I said the next person who interjected during a question being asked was going to leave. He is very lucky indeed and that is his final warning. 
Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS 
: Can I ask the Prime Minister as to whether before Orewa and that Damascus experience there was anything of any substance different between the National Party’s policy and Labour’s as best evidenced by the fact that Doug Graham got a knighthood for what he was doing and is now adviser to Dr Brash? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I have not been able to find differences of substance. I would say that this Government has been more generous. 
Dr Don Brash 
: I seek leave to table two documents. The first one is the text of my speech in the general debate the first one after I became the leader of the National Party in which I expressed grave concern about the Treaty of Waitangi. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that. Is there any objection? There is. [ 
Interruption 
] I am sorry Dr Brash. There is to be no comment during points of order. 
Dr Don Brash 
: I seek leave to table the preliminary results of a survey conducted in the Northland electorate of Maori members on the roll which showed that 88.75 percent of those Maori supported the idea that the treaty should not be used as a basis for creating greater civil political or democratic rights. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: I seek leave to table Mr Brownlee’s words recognising that there are customary rights that should exist. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Is it her understanding that customary rights in these circumstances can be given only to Maori not to Pakeha? 
Rt Hon HELEN CLARK 
: In the way in which they have developed under the common law which is not unique to New Zealand—that is my understanding. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table a very well-known speech by the then leader of the National Party Jim Bolger in 1990 promising to settle everything to do with Waitangi in 10 years which we will receive today with a sense of déjà vu. 
Document not tabled.