Webb DuncanDr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Thank you Mr Speaker. It's with some surprise and disappointment that I hear my friends say that this is dry legislation or there's nothing here. And I'm sure our assistants in the Parliamentary Counsel Office would be appalled and would abhor to hear that because this you know—I might have a facetious tone but there's an important point to be made here and that is that this legislation is actually really important for access to justice because this is in fact the doorway to the law. I know we can read this hefty legislation and perhaps find it a little dry but the fact of the matter is that the ability to know what the law is is critical to a citizen's rights and that is one of the key things that this legislation does.I was dealing with a matter to do with Ministry of Social Development for a constituent and to find out the position I had to navigate the primary legislation an executive order that was a regulation then rules promulgated by the department and then a policy promulgated by the department and then guidelines. So that's five layers of rules and the question is: where there's conflict which prevail? Which ones are binding and which ones are someone's opinion of what might be the best way to do it? What this piece of legislation does is it says we are going to draw a brightline so that anything above this line is delegated legislation it is subject to the scrutiny of this House and it is made under the authority of Parliament. And things below that line which might be called rules or policies or guidelines will not be delegated legislation they won't have the same force and they won't be subject to the same scrutiny.And there's more and it is really important because at the moment—I mean if you are an ordinary citizen to navigate that kind of labyrinth is pretty much impossible. So part of this project—and it's only the first step in a much larger project but part of this project—embedded in this Act is saying We will find the law in one place." and the joys of the internet are that we have an easily accessible repository for it. It's not the case anymore—perhaps the romantic lawyers amongst us if that isn't an oxymoron would love to go down to the law library and the dusty books but the fact of the matter is that those days are gone. The legislation website will be the repository for all delegated legislation so that anyone can go to this legislation and say "Ah now I understand what the layers of legislation are. And what's more I can go and find it." So we won't have the ridiculous situation we had not long ago when we had the Fonterra melamine scandal where an inquiry couldn't be sure whether they'd found all the law or not. I mean that is absolutely unacceptable in a country that prides itself on being subject to the rule of law.So here we have a piece of legislation that addresses that and it makes it clear what the scrutiny is. I feel for some departments when they pass things that are probably legislative instruments and are expected to table them in the House but they don't even know that—so even the departments themselves can be confused. So here again we have a piece of legislation which says it's a legislative instrument provides a definition for what a legislative instrument is has clear legislative effect and therefore it must be presented in the House. And that's important because you know my friends who—I'm not sure I can see a colleague from the Regulations Review Committee in the House at the moment. Yes I can: Willow-Jean Prime. You know that's a really important check. Now it's one that's used rarely but its existence is important. So the fact is that any regulation is disallowable. It's set out here and that is an important part of parliamentary scrutiny. And increasingly we know that the executive is given regulation-making powers because the law is complicated things change very rapidly and all those other reasons that are given for regulating regulation-making powers but it must absolutely be subject to the scrutiny of this House. The Regulations Review Committee is a committee of this House and I must say it does a great job and one of the joys of coming here is seeing the very good job that it does do and the seriousness with which it takes citizens' complaints about regulations.I guess the other really important aspect of this legislation is the Interpretation Act. As the Law Commission suggested recommended it's no good having kind of the way the law works the way legislation interacts with each other itself spread across many different pieces of legislation. Of itself the irony is not lost on me that the law about legislation is not well drafted. So the Interpretation Act comes in here and that's actually a really important tool as well because we know that when people approach legislation it can be difficult. There are words in there even words that look simple: a month—is it a calendar month or is it four weeks? A week—is it a working week? A day—is it a working day? All those kinds of things those kinds of things which are spread across the Act as well as the general approach to interpretation—I mean despite what many people would think we don't take a pettifogging approach to interpretation. We approach it in a purposive way. The first question is: what was this legislation intended to achieve? What is the purpose of the legislation and its intended effect? Those kinds of things are all set out in the interpretation sections of the Act and again it's a great thing to do. So this is the first step on a much longer project. Can I also from again my position on the Regulations Review Committee which had some oversight of this project congratulate parliamentary counsel who have been leading it and who now have a very large task ahead of them which is once the next piece of legislation is passed and we have identified everything which is a regulation finding it and putting it up on Legislation Online so that any citizen can find it. They've done a great job so far. It's a very long-term project one that has crossed a number of Parliaments but it is actually really important.I want to end where I started which is to say that this is about access to justice. This is about saying that the law should be accessible to anyone. It shouldn't require higher education or a law degree to access it. It should be easy to find easy to read and easy to apply. This is a fantastic step forward for Parliament and for our law. I commend these bills to the House.Bills read a third time."