English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:645;Page:14300] 
4.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (Deputy Leader—National) 
 to the  
Minister of Justice 
: Is it the Government’s policy that the value of substantially more favourable than commercial terms and conditions for credit is considered a donation to a political party? 
Hon ANNETTE KING (Minister of Justice) 
: 
 Yes and the Government made the law specific in that respect in the recently passed Electoral Finance Act—something that was opposed by the National Party. It also made the law specific in terms of identifying previously secret donations from trusts. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister agree then that the Labour Party president Mike Williams was completely incorrect as chief administrator of Labour Party funds when he said yesterday: “An interest free loan is not a donation under any electoral act it is an interest free loan and we have a lot of them mainly from rich branches of the Labour Party … it shouldn’t be treated as a donation”; if she does not agree with him why not? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I am not going to comment on Mr Williams’ comments but I will say to the member that under the previous Act the old regime that was very unclear and of course what this Government has done is to make it very clear indeed. Of course we have also made it clear about secret donations from trusts because that was not clear at all not to most people—except for those in the National Party which was very very keen to use secret trusts whenever it possibly could in order to garner as many votes as it could without people knowing where the money was coming from. 
Sue Moroney 
: Has the Minister seen any reports about donations to secret trusts? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: Yes I have. Like most people I read with amazement the story in the  
Sunday Star-Times  
where Ruth Laugesen reported that a former major anonymous donor to the National Party told the  
Sunday Star-Times 
 that the party president had approached previous anonymous donors seeking donations before the law took effect. So that party which says it believes in transparency wanted to thwart the Act before it came into effect by gathering as many anonymous donations as possible. Well so much for transparency! 
Hon Bill English 
: Why is the Minister not aware that the Electoral Act 1993 makes it quite clear that an interest-free loan would be counted as a donation and that the Electoral Finance Act 2007 simply re-enacts similar wording; and how come the president of the Labour Party as of yesterday still did not know that an interest-free loan is a donation and should have been treated as a donation under the law that we have had during the past 15 years? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Before the Minister responds I am seeking to find where the ministerial responsibility is on this. Could the member please paraphrase his question. The Minister has no responsibility for party matters but would the member please clarify the question for me. Thank you. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is the Minister not aware that the Electoral Act 1993 makes it clear that an interest-free loan is a donation and should be treated as such and that the 2007 law she has just referred to does not change the law in any significant manner; and will she get the Ministry of Justice to advise the president of the Labour Party that for the last 15 years interest-free loans have counted as donations? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: There are at least three questions there. 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: First of all I disagree with the member’s interpretation of the old Act and the new Act. I can tell the House—and I know that New Zealand First will be interested in this—that the new Act makes it clear that the sort of activities that Mr Clarkson was involved in at the last election would not be able to occur now. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is she concerned that in the light of Mr Williams’ statements yesterday about both the status of interest-free loans and the extent of the use of interest-free loans by the New Zealand Labour Party the Labour Party may have been failing to report such donations for up to 15 years; if so will she be asking her officials or those of the Electoral Commission to investigate? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: I have no responsibility for the actions of the Labour Party and I have no evidence to back up the claim made by the member. But perhaps we could go back and say “Let’s disclose all those people who donated anonymously through secret trusts.”—up to $1.2 million through one particular National Party trust. Perhaps we should break that open and show what has been going on in New Zealand. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is she aware— 
Hon Phil Goff 
: Quit while you’re ahead. 
Hon Bill English 
: Quit while you’re behind Phil. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: This chipping across the Chamber causes disorder. 
Hon Bill English 
: Is she aware the comments made by the president of the Labour Party referred to interest-free loans mainly from rich branches of the Labour Party; and does she think that her officials should advise the president of the Labour Party that he should declare all pledge card loans so the public can know whether one of New Zealand’s major political parties is complying with the law? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: There are several questions there and in relation to the first one no. 
Hon Bill English 
: Given her view stated to this House that an interest-free loan is in fact a donation does she believe that the comment made by the president of the Labour Party after Owen Glenn received his New Year’s honour saying that Mr Glenn had not made a donation was misleading and probably deliberately misleading? 
Hon ANNETTE KING 
: My name is not “Mr Nasty” like that member’s; he is always throwing insults around people. To say that people deliberately mislead is not something I am going to comment on. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Points of order are heard in silence. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Do you seriously consider that that was an answer to the question or even an attempt to address it? She simply said: “My name is not ‘Mr Nasty’ ”. Perhaps she would like to tell us what her middle name is inside the Labour Party? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I would say Mr Brownlee that that is an entirely inappropriate comment to direct to the Speaker. The Minister was asked for her opinion. She gave it. It may not be satisfactory to the member but that is what the Standing Orders permit.