4. Question No. 4—Social Development and EmploymentHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 4—Social Development and Employment4. Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How are her employment policies going to support New Zealanders in to work given that the Reserve Bank's August Monetary Policy Statement predicts that unemployment will rise to 5.4 percent?Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Because we already are. In July this year there were 800 more exits from the jobseeker benefit into work compared with July last year despite the challenging economic conditions while we inherited a low-growth economy where unemployment was forecast to increase above 55 percent. Recently we have announced an employment investment strategy which gets more support to young job seekers and more strongly targets those on benefit long term. And yesterday we released an employment action plan to ensure agencies are focused on ensuring more New Zealanders can enjoy the independence and opportunities that work provides.Hon Willie Jackson: Does she stand by her statement that her Government will make early interventions to get people into work or training and prevent them from entering the benefit system; if so why is she planning to reduce the number of non-beneficiaries who can access Mana in Mahi?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Because we need to do both but what our Government is clearly prioritising is a beneficiary-first process. That means we are focusing on those who are swimming in the ocean not rescuing those who are already in a lifeboat.Hon Willie Jackson: Does she stand by her statement that her Government will make early interventions to get people into work or training and prevent them from entering the benefit system; if so why is she planning to reduce the number of non-beneficiaries who can access Flexi-wage?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I've just answered that. I would remind the member that in both instances we have tilted the balance to beneficiaries first. We are still providing access to those programmes for those who are at risk of long-term welfare dependency who may not have come on to the benefit first. But we must provide taxpayer support and taxpayer-funded programmes to those whom taxpayers are funding on welfare.Hon Willie Jackson: Will preventing non-beneficiaries from accessing Mana in Mahi and Flexi-wage increase their chances of becoming beneficiaries; if so how will this affect her 50000 job seeker reduction target?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I've answered that question: because we must do both. We have seen unfortunately a 70000 increase in the job seeker numbers under the previous Government at a time there were jobs everywhere. Our focus is to make sure—Hon Carmel Sepuloni: 24000 extra beneficiaries under her watch.Hon LOUISE UPSTON: —that we are supporting those who are on the jobseeker benefit now. And thanks to that previous Minister who watched a period of time where 70000 more people went on to the jobseeker benefit 220000 children growing up in benefit-dependent households—we're not willing to accept that that's as good as it gets.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can that Minister remember who was the Minister that introduced the Mana in Mahi policy but apparently doesn't like the mahi anymore?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Absolutely—our Government is focused on getting more New Zealanders into mahi that is paid.Hon Willie Jackson: Will the Minister commit to increase funding for Mana in Mahi and Flexi-wage in order to meet demand from the expected rise in unemployment to 5.4 percent as predicted by the Reserve Bank?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: The $1.1 billion investment that goes into employment initiatives we must ensure is delivering results. The Mana in Mahi programme that he refers to is expensive—$17000 per participant—so we need to ensure we are targeting those expensive investment initiatives into those who are at risk of long-term welfare dependency. Our focus unlike the previous member was to focus those on 18- to 24-year-olds who are at risk of long-term welfare dependency.Hon Willie Jackson: Why is the Minister content to be the ambulance at the bottom of the hill rather than supporting programmes that can intervene early and make a real difference in people's lives particularly Mana in Mahi?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I'm proud to be the Minister that set a target to reduce the number on jobseeker benefit by 50000 because our Government is clear that those who are in work have better lives and better outcomes. We've got to focus on those coming in but as I said we've got large numbers and improved exit rates than there were a year ago.