Peters Winston: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumePeters Winston: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 24 June 2015. Volume:706;Page:4698. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]5.Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) to the Minister for Māori Development: Does he stand by all his statements?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for Māori Development): Tēnā koe. Tēnā tātou katoa. Yes in the context they were given.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Why did the Minister when asked about his or his staff’s involvement in programming for the Māori Television Whānau Ora debate deny involvement first at the Māori Affairs Committee on 17 June; second in this Chamber on 17 June; and third again yesterday when he knew those denials were false?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: I reject that statement.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Why did he claim to the media yesterday that at his meeting with the chief executive officer of Māori Television content was not discussed when he knew that to be false?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: In the context of the discussion yesterday the context was around Whānau Ora. In my purview as the Minister for Māori Development and indeed as a responsible Minister for Māori Television in the context of the wider statement of intent that is given to me which was part of the discussion with Mr Maxwell certainly one of those parts of the statement of intent is content in the wider sense. It includes such things as growth and protection of te reo Māori me ōna tikanga 100 million engagements per week meeting place of Māori youth. That is the context of the discussion.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Why did he deny to the media yesterday that content was discussed when the chief executive officer at that time with nothing whatsoever to hide on 27 May in his email to staff 2 days after meeting the Minister confirmed that content was discussed? Was the chief executive officer lying?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: In the context of the discussion I cannot answer for Mr Maxwell but certainly he did make the statement around the discussions and talked about strategic pillars as well partnerships as well alliances as well people as well—all of that was a part of the discussion. In the context of what I am required to report back to the House upon the statement of intent the discussion around content was certainly in that context a part of the discussion.Rt Hon Winston Peters: When his colleague Marama Fox messaged Mihi Forbes when the Whānau Ora debate was spiked and claimed that the Māori Party had no part in it was he aware that she had done this and did she do that with his authority?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: That is outside the realms of my delegations as a Minister.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Why did the Minister yesterday admit knowledge of his staff’s involvement in seeking to have New Zealand First removed from the debate using the words “of which I was aware” which appears in the television coverage of yesterday’s debate then later changing his Hansard to deny knowledge when he knew again that that denial was false?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: In answer to the second part of the question I deny absolutely any involvement in the changing of Hansard until the record was corrected today.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I seek leave to table last night’s Hansard with the change in it. He says he did not do it—Mr SPEAKER: Order! No the draft Hansard is prepared and available to all members. I get it at about 4.30 p.m. or 5 p.m. It is not necessary to table it.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. This is not a boring matter. The fact is one can change a Hansard to change spelling or for clarity or a misquote but to put in the word “not”—Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. [Interruption] Order! The member is now alleging that the member changed the Hansard. I can assure him that that is not the case. I have checked on this. The Hansard was a draft prepared by Hansard staff. It turned out to be incorrect and as soon as that was noted it was changed.Hon Te Ururoa Flavell: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: I will hear from the Hon Te Ururoa Flavell first.Hon Te Ururoa Flavell: I take offence at the Rt Hon Winston Peters suggesting that I changed the Hansard. I would like him to stand and apologise.Mr SPEAKER: No. Listen—on this occasion this is a debating matter. I am trying to assist the Minister by stating the facts clearly in the House today. Certainly I can assure this House that there was no attempt by the Minister to alter this Hansard and have that word stuck in. It was—[Interruption] Order!—effectively a mistake by the Hansard office and that has been acknowledged. It is a draft Hansard that is done very very quickly for the benefit of all of us members. It is published in haste and then it is distributed and that is the opportunity for members collectively to make sure that it is accurate.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: I will hear from the Rt Hon Winston Peters.Rt Hon Winston Peters: If one looks at the television coverage yesterday of this question it is as clear as daylight if you follow what was said—Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! No the member will immediately sit down.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Well I want to ask a question about the authority to change it.Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member wants to ask a question get up and do so—I will accept that—but to go back and re-explain what is in the Hansard when I have covered that off quite adequately is unnecessary. So if the member wants to raise a point of order I will hear it.Rt Hon Winston Peters: I want to know how Hansard could possibly change this transcript without the authority of the Minister or someone with his authority from his office. We do not give it to all our staff members.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will now resume his seat. I will explain it once more as clearly as I can for the member and then we will move on. Hansard record very quickly what happens to get it out for members to comment on. A mistake was made. How that was made I do not know. It was made and as soon as it was then distributed it was picked up by members and corrected. That has been the procedure for as long as the member has been here. To suggest that it was either a deliberate mistake by Hansard or that it was somehow influenced by the Minister I assure the member is absolutely not correct. Does the member have a further—Rt Hon Winston Peters: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.Mr SPEAKER: No I—Rt Hon Winston Peters: No there will be a point of order.Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat. There may be a point of order. I will invite the member if he wants to raise a fresh point of order to certainly do so but I will not under any circumstances entertain from the member a continuation of this point of order. Fresh point of order—Rt Hon Winston Peters: I seek leave to table a video of the parliamentary coverage—Mr SPEAKER: Order! That is completely unnecessary and I am not prepared to put the leave.Ron Mark: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. [Interruption]Mr SPEAKER: Order! Members have a right to raise points of order. We collectively hope it will be of value.Ron Mark: I am trying to be helpful. Could you deliberate then and at a later time give us your view? How are we to reconcile a transcript of ourselves on video with that finally produced in Hansard if the two do not match and how do you as the Speaker intend to ensure that consistency remains?Mr SPEAKER: I have now explained it at least twice as clearly as I can. If I have not made it clear enough to Ron Mark then I am afraid I cannot help him.Rt Hon Winston Peters: Was he so desperate not to debate the Māori Party’s Whānau Ora programme with New Zealand First that he broke the law and got his chief executive office mate Paora Maxwell to scrap the debate which is why he should resign?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: I am really proud of the efforts that Māori Television has done in respect of all sorts of things in particular around our reo. I thought I made it really clear to the member yesterday that there was no effort whatsoever to get in the road of the broadcast of the programme. In fact I outlined it really clearly and I will do it again for him just for today. On 14 May of this year we received the request from Māori Television to appear. On the same day 14 May the request was accepted. On 20 May the programme was pulled. There was no interference whatsoever and I gave that assurance to the House.Denis O’Rourke: What happened in between?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Well the member seems to think he knows but he does not know anything unfortunately—Mr SPEAKER: Order! Now that answer is quite long enough.Marama Fox: Did the Minister knowingly mislead the House at any time now yesterday in the past weeks or in the 8 months of his exemplary service as Minister for Māori Development?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: I will apologise for getting up fast—I was so anxious to answer that question and to say to my colleague that I take this as an honourable place I take the position as a Minister as an honourable position and I do not intend to do anything to jeopardise that.