Lyndon Hūhana; Goldsmith PaulHŪHANA LYNDON (Green): To the Minister: I want to address something that is really important in te Ao Māori and it is the ability for us to poroporoaki or farewell our dead. In thinking about this legislation and the fact that you cannot consort together there is a worry because ultimately whānau will pass and then how do these gang member whānau poroporoaki or farewell their dead? Now my assumption Minister is that a marae is not a public place and police cannot enter our marae and take exception to the gang members who might be present and a part of the hui mate. This is my expectation. But the minute that the gang member who might be wearing a t-shirt who might be wearing a patch or a jacket then exits the marae and might be in the car park or even where we have—we have the marae ātea and the waharoa. So you gather as manuhiri to go on to the marae. I'm assuming and I'd like to explore with the Minister what his interpretation is of the public space because out the front of the waharoa and the car park—does that mean that our gang whānau could be targeted by the police who might monitor hui mate of significance in rural Māori communities for this purpose? Because we know in rural Māori communities we gather large we gather to mourn and farewell our dead and gang members are a part of that whānau. So I'd like to understand the interpretation of the Minister in terms of waharoa and car parks around our marae.But further I also want to hear from the Minister in terms of the definition of vehicle" because is a hearse deemed a vehicle in this space? Because if you have a wife a niece or a mokopuna who will escort that tūpāpaku that deceased person in the hearse to the cemetery will that hearse then open up for the gang member in the hearse to be put at risk through this legislation? And then of course we go to the cemetery and the cemetery could be a community one run by councils. Is that deemed a public place? And then further my assumption is—because we have Māori cemeteries on whenua Māori I'd like to understand if ture whenua Māori Māori reservations for the purposes of urupā or cemeteries are deemed public or not for this legislation.So these are things that I think are really important for the Māori community to understand in terms of how this legislation will be interpreted by the police because ultimately it will be the police in rural Māori communities who will have to manage the situation. And so I do want to ask: what feedback has the Police given to the Minister to prevent around their ability? So this is: Have you asked the police about their ability to prevent gang members from gathering in public places? Because they have the lived experience they have the knowledge in terms of what it's practically going to look like. So for myself I'm from Whangaroa Kaeo. We have hui mate there and we have gang members. I fear that our one police officer in Whangaroa or Kohukohu or Te Kao or out in Russell te Whangaruru will have to come and monitor a hui mate—a hui mate where the family needs privacy and the ability to poroporoaki those that have passed and to support their loved ones. Gang members could be targeted. And that is my deep fear for the mokopuna to watch the police hover around our marae because they know that a Head Hunter or a Black Power member might have gone on to the marae and they wait—and they wait—to target our whānau who are going on to the marae for a hui mate.And not taking away the fact that it's not just hui mate on marae; we can get married we can have 21sts and we can have birthdays. So I do worry about the implication. So I want to understand from the minister a cemetery I want to understand from the Minister definitions around a hearse. And then are the waharoa areas and the car park around the marae deemed public because some of our marae do open up on to streets. And then what has the Police given you as feedback around how on earth are they going to prevent gang members from gathering in public places? Kia ora.Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice): Just very briefly we have many times raised the issue of the ability of the Police to enforce this legislation and we've been very clear that ultimately Police always have discretion as to when it is appropriate or not to engage and they will retain that discretion. But we have every confidence that with sufficient planning and arrangements they will be able to enforce this law.There's a number of specific questions particularly around immediate family members. I'm struggling to understand the member's confusion. It seems quite clear that an "immediate family" means "family whānau or other culturally recognised groups" and then in (b) "to avoid doubt [that] includes—" a list of six people. So those six groups are definitely in although (a) could potentially be broader than those six. So I'm not quite sure what the concern is there.In terms of public places it's very clear that a "public place" is one that "is open to … being used by the public whether or not [by] payment [or] charge". Now there will be some cemeteries that are not open to the public and there will be some that are. And so that will be dealt with in individual cases."