Carter John: Waste Minimisation Bill — In Committee 
Carter John: Waste Minimisation Bill — In Committee 
[Volume:648;Page:17589] 
JOHN CARTER (National—Northland) 
: 
 You see that is the problem—we just saw some waste. The member said he would take a minute extra and he took 2½. How much waste was that? The member in a way just argued against himself. He said he is in favour of the levy. I heard my colleague Eric Roy earlier arguing and worrying—as I think Chris Auchinvole is also worrying—about this part of the bill because of the compliance and bureaucracy it establishes. That is the issue that worries me. I just heard our member very correctly state that the amendment coming though will ask local government bodies to desist competing—unfairly because they will use ratepayer subsidies—against businesses that have already established themselves on a proper business basis. What worries me with this levy is that it is setting up more compliance more bureaucracy more control and more regulation. Somewhere along— 
Bob Clarkson 
: Are we in favour of it? 
JOHN CARTER 
: Yes we are as an interim measure. As an interim measure we support it because it is a start. 
It is a punitive measure however. Basically it says to people that if they do not do it right they will be punished whereas we want to incentivise people to understand that what they call waste is not waste—it is a resource. And one day as I said earlier we will get to the stage where this nation understands that. In the meantime we will be spending a whole lot of ratepayers’ money particularly and probably some taxpayers’ money as well on a system that establishes more bureaucracy and a whole lot of people will then start making decisions rules and regulations about things they do not know about. 
Let me give members an example—it is a little bit off the point—in relation to the Building Act. I was talking to a roofer the other day. He told me that the Department of Building and Housing has just brought out a whole raft of new regulations. He said that if he has to build a roof exactly as the department has told him to and if he has to comply with its rules and regulations the roof is going to leak. Well I am afraid that we are going to end up with the same sort of thing here. We will have rules and regulations that actually prevent people from getting on and doing the recycling they are already doing and I think that is a great shame. We want to encourage recycling to happen. We want small businesses to get going. 
I think of the team of people we have in Kaitaia whom I am very proud of. They have been doing recycling there successfully for years now—and all credit to them. They have taken on the challenge against all odds and made it work. Those are the sorts of people we should be encouraging because they educate society. If we go and talk to people in Kaitaia now we will find that they have quite a different attitude to those in a whole lot of other areas who think that waste is just something they chuck in a hole in the ground. So we support this levy because it is one step towards the end goal. 
Bob Clarkson 
: Where’s the levy going to be stored? 
JOHN CARTER 
: Well the levy is going to be spent—that is the problem. It will not be stored anywhere. This levy will be— 
Bob Clarkson 
: Put it in the Spencer Trust— 
JOHN CARTER 
: It will not be put in the Spencer account; the member can be sure of that. We will make sure it is put in a proper account where it is properly and adequately looked after and people can know what is happening. 
The point is that ultimately we want to get away from the situation where people are encouraged to do things for punitive reasons. We want to encourage people to do things for absolutely the right reason.