McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
McCully Murray: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:610;Page:7561] 
7. Hon MURRAY McCULLY (NZ National—East Coast Bays) 
 to the  
Minister of Immigration 
: When will the inquiry into the New Zealand Immigration Service’s handling of information on the Zaoui case be completed and to whom will the report be made? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL (Minister of Immigration) 
: 
 The chief executive of the Department of Labour has advised that he will provide a full report to me by the end of the month. I understand that he will also report to the State Services Commissioner. I have had a discussion with him and he has also advised that if it transpires that he can report earlier then he will. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Can the Minister recall answering an assertion by myself last Thursday that the Secretary of Labour reported to her and was therefore the wrong person to conduct the inquiry by saying: “That is not correct. The Secretary of Labour is accountable to the Minister of Labour in that regard.”; if so how does she reconcile that statement with the purchase agreement signed between herself as Minister of Immigration and the Secretary of Labour on 23 May 2002 which states: “The chief executive is accountable to the Minister of Immigration for delivery of the outputs and results specified in this agreement to the quantity quality and time specified.”? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The assertion the member made related to bonuses and salary levels. I think I recall him saying that at the time. It is true that the chief executive is accountable to me in respect of Vote Immigration but the wider responsibility for Vote Labour and all the assessments in terms of accountability for his performance lie with the Minister of Labour. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Does the Minister recall signing a purchase agreement with the Secretary of Labour on 23 May last year which states that the purpose of the document is to allow the Minister of Immigration to determine which outputs to purchase what performance measures to have and whether those outputs have been delivered and to hold the Secretary of Labour accountable for that delivery; if so can she tell the House why we should have any confidence in an inquiry being conducted by someone who reports to her in that way when she herself was so closely involved in these events? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: Yes I recall signing the purchase agreement. I recall that at the time the Secretary of Labour was John Chetwin which is why James Buwalda is a very good person to conduct the review. 
Heather Roy 
: What confidence can the public of New Zealand have in her given that she has signed this purchase agreement and when will she admit that a full independent public inquiry is necessary—or is she still reluctant because such an inquiry might find that she was party to the reported unison of lies? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I have not ruled out any inquiry following on from this but I want to know the facts of the situation. I approached the general manager of the Immigration Service and asked him to take some steps to investigate what had occurred after the member the Hon Murray McCully had released information to the media about an Official Information Act request. It was a secondary issue to the other matter that the member raises. I am prepared to wait until I have that report before I make a judgment on it. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Does the Minister recall saying to the House last Thursday: “I have fully accepted that the comments that were included in the media log that was put together by the media adviser in the Immigration Service were not reflective of an agreement to lie because I would have had to be party to such an agreement and I was not.” and can she now tell the House if that is the conclusion why the Department of Labour is bothering with an inquiry? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: The comment I made in relation to that matter was that the comment recorded in the media log said that people had broken that so-called agreement. As I was the only person who spoke on the matter I would have had to be a party to such an agreement. There was no agreement to lie. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Since the Minister has just confirmed that she recalls saying in the House: “I was the only person who spoke about the matter. It must refer to me and therefore I could be a party to such an agreement only if one existed. No such agreement existed.” could she tell the House since she has already pronounced herself to be innocent whether she seriously expects her own officials to find her guilty? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I have asked for this matter to be investigated in respect of the question of the Official Information Act matter where the member brought that matter to public attention by giving it to the news media. That was the matter that I raised with the general manager of the Immigration Service. The Secretary of Labour in fact took the matter off the hands of the general manager of the Immigration Service. I have not instructed the Secretary of Labour in respect of this inquiry. It is one that he is conducting himself and he has broadened it to cover that very issue. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: Does the Minister not understand that by signing this agreement as Minister of Immigration with the chief executive of the Department of Labour—which holds the chief executive of the department accountable to her for his and his officials’ performance—she has created a situation whereby somebody who reports to her is being asked to investigate whether there has been wrongdoing in the form of an agreement to lie in unison in which she herself is implicated? 
Hon LIANNE DALZIEL 
: I just made it absolutely clear that I did not ask the Secretary of Labour to undertake this inquiry. I am prepared to wait for the outcome of the inquiry and then to determine whether further inquiries need to be undertaken. 
Hon Murray McCully 
: I seek leave of the House to table the output agreement for Vote Immigration for 2002-03. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that agreement. Is there any objection? There is. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table the briefing paper of August last year to Minister Dalziel on the issue of immigration that came from the Department of Labour which proves surely that the department is responsible to her. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I could not understand what Mr Peters was asking for leave to table. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave has been denied. 
Hon Richard Prebble 
: Maybe other people deny leave because they deny everything the honourable member says but I do not. I like to do it on its merits. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will let the member repeat the request very briefly. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I seek leave to table the briefing paper to the Minister of Immigration of August last year—after the election—that was prepared by the Department of Labour which surely proves the connection between her and the department. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is.