Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Rich Katherine: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:613;Page:9707] 
4.  
KATHERINE RICH (National) 
 to the  
Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF) 
: What is the reason that the Department of Child Youth and Family Services does not know how many children are in its care and after 4 years in Government who does she think is responsible for this lack of information? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before the Minister replies I want to say that she advised me that the answer was going to be slightly longer and I advise the House accordingly. 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment (CYF)) 
: 
 The reason the department cannot at this stage produce a total figure of the number of children in its care despite knowing the numbers at the case-management level is that the first information systems priority was the development of a sophisticated case-management information system to support front-line work. This is now working well. The next phase to be implemented as a priority in this and the next financial year is the development of management information systems capability. That will include integrated national planning and reporting capabilities. That work programme is part of the accountability arrangements that the chief executive signed with me as Minister. 
Katherine Rich 
: When the responsibility for accurate information about the children in the care of the Department of Child Youth and Family Services ultimately falls on management and the Minister does she agree with the comments of Judge Mick Brown that while there are some good people in Child Youth and Family Services there are some “drongos who need to be sifted out”; if not why not? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: In direct comparison to my ability and responsibility to sort out said people in other political parties I am not responsible for individual staff members within the department. 
Katherine Rich 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was quite simple: does she agree with Judge Mick Brown or not? She did not address that question. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I do not require assistance from any member of the House and two parties did so. The Minister did address the question. It might not have been the answer the member wanted but she certainly addressed the question. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. With respect she was asked whether she agreed with the comment from a former retired judge who is very experienced in this matter. She did not answer the question at all. What she did do was point to those she implied to be drongos in other political parties for whom she said she is not responsible or for sorting out those people within her department. She did not answer the question as to whether she agreed with him. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I did not take any notice of that part of the answer because it was political. I took a great deal of notice of the last sentence of the answer which did address the question. 
Moana Mackey 
: Has she received any advice from the department on the effect of the previous Government’s funding of the department’s information systems? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Comments about this must be within the Minister’s responsibility. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: In its briefing to the incoming Minister in 1999 the department advised that at the time it was established in 1999 the constraints on capital spending meant it could not develop the information systems it needed without prioritising and sequencing the development. 
Barbara Stewart 
: Now that the department is ensuring that accurate records are kept are steps also being taken to ensure that foster parents are appropriately screened and regularly monitored in order to provide safe environments for these children in care? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The answer is yes although that is not directly related to the primary question. 
Dr Muriel Newman 
: On what exact date did the Minister first learn that her department did not know how many children were asleep in its care every night as identified in the Government’s baseline review and what action did she take? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The department is able to say how many children are in care but only by individual contact with every person responsible for the case management of those children. The system does not allow the department to push a button and get a national figure in one go. The date I learnt of that was when I first received the baseline review. 
Marc Alexander 
: Does the Minister agree that since the department is unable to provide any figures of the number of children and young people in its custody who are not enrolled in school that is a damning indictment of its failure to achieve its statutory objective of preventing children and young persons from suffering deprivation; if not why not? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: No I do not and the reason is that the information system has now been upgraded to include data on school enrolments. This will apply to all new cases and current ones as records are updated. 
Katherine Rich 
: Can the Minister confirm that the Child Youth and Family Services computer system Cyras has been upgraded in full so that fields to include whether a child is in care or in school have been completed and implemented so that the department knows exactly whether all its kids in care are enrolled in school? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: That is exactly the same question as the one I have just answered so I am happy to give the answer again in case the member missed it. The information system has now been upgraded to include data on school enrolments. This will apply to new cases and to current ones as records are updated. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: When the Minister was asked whether she agreed with the respected former judge Mick Brown’s comments about there being drongos in her department why did she not tell the House whether she agreed and will she do so now? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I do not have responsibility for the comments made by Mick Brown and I do not personally think that that is an appropriate term to use in reference to any other person. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am not asking that junior Minister whether she has responsibility; I am asking her whether she agrees. Surely she has some opinions on the matter given the tragedies we are seeing around our country. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The member has asked for an opinion and he is entitled to do that but the Minister is entitled to answer in the way she did. 
Katherine Rich 
: What has the Minister’s Government done over the last 4 years to retain the good people at the Department of Child Youth and Family Services and sift out the people whom Judge Mick Brown described as “drongos”? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: Our Government has put a considerable amount of effort energy and resources into allowing and supporting the department to achieve the functions that we as a Parliament expect of it. As we noted in the debate yesterday that was after a considerable amount of neglect and underfunding by the previous Government. But in the end—as that member should know if she wants to keep her seat on the front bench—I as a Minister do not have any responsibility for the individual employment of staff.