3. Children Young Persons and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Bill—Māori ChildrenMETIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister for Māori DevelopmentChildren Young Persons and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Bill—Māori Children3. METIRIA TUREI (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister for Māori Development: He aha tāna whakamāherehere mēnā rā i a ia tētahi tā tāna manatū ranei i hoatu e pā ana ki ngā whakahīrautanga o te Children Young Persons and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Bill ki runga tamariki Māori me ō rātou whānau hapū iwi?[What advice if any did he or his ministry provide on the implications of the Children Young Persons and Their Families (Oranga Tamariki) Legislation Bill for Māori children and their whānau hapū and iwi?]Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL (Minister for Māori Development): Mr Speaker tēnā koe i tērā pātai. Ko tāku ko tāku tari he kaha aki kia titiro i Te Ture ki te tamaiti Māori kaua i tōna kotahi ēngari ki a rātau ko tōna whānau tonā hapū tōna iwi. Nā ko tētahi o ngā hua mō mātau he tautoko i te pire i ngā kaupapa me ngā ūara Māori pēnei i te mana tāmaiti mana tamariki whakapapa me te whanaungatanga.[Thank you for that question. My office and I strongly urge that the Act in regard to the Māori child be examined not in isolation but with them their whānau their hapū and their iwi. Now one outcome for us is to support the bill in terms of Māori philosophies and values such as the rights of the child and children genealogy and relationships.]Metiria Turei: Does the Minister support the bill which according to the Government's own Cabinet papers would increase the placement of tamariki Māori in non-kin care and therefore remove even more tamariki Māori from the care of their whānau hapū and iwi?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Ko tāku ko te tautoko i tētahi kaupapa e mea ana me noho tētahi here o te tamaiti ki tōna whānau tōna hapū tōna iwi kia noho tērā here ko te iwi ko te whānau ko te hapū ki te tamaiti. Ko te whakapapa ko te whanaungatanga i tipu ake ai ki roto i te tamaiti i ngā tau koirā te kaupapa nui kāre i kō atu kāre i kō mai![My role is to support a policy that states that the child's ties to their whānau hapū and iwi and those of the iwi whānau and hapū to the child must remain. The genealogy and relationships that the child developed from over the years—that is the important thing; no more no less!]Metiria Turei: How can the Minister and Te Puni Kōkiri be OK with the bill when the changes that are being made cut right against the rangatiratanga of Māori to care for our own tamariki?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Tēnei taku kōrero i mua ko tāku ko tāku tari ko te kī atu kia noho tapu te hononga o te tamaiti ki tōna whānau ki tōna hapū ki tōna iwi. Ko tētahi kaupapa kāore i whai i tēna huarahi kore au e whakaae atu kāre i kō atu kāre i kō mai![This was my statement earlier on: my department and I have stated that the child's connection to their whānau hapū and iwi must remain sacrosanct. Any initiative that does not follow that path I will not allow it either way!]Metiria Turei: Does the Minister support then the removal from the current law of the provision that requires that priority be given to placing a child with a person—(i) who is a member of the child's or young person's hapu or iwi (with preference being given to hapu members) or if that is not possible who has the same tribal racial ethnic or cultural background as the child …"?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Kei kī mai wētahi kai te whakatōwai au i ngā kōrero. Me pēnei rawa te kōrero ko te whakapapa o te tamaiti he kaupapa nui ki a au otirā ki taku tari ki Te Ao Māori ki ngā tamariki te tikanga. Ko tērā kaupapa kei mua tonu atu i tētahi atu kaupapa nō reira tāku ko te kī atu mēnā e 60 paihēneti e 65 pai hēneti rānei o ngā tamariki kua hereherea i roto i tēnei tari te tikanga ia ko te tirohanga he tirohanga ko te painga o ngā tamariki Māori. Koinei tāku ka waiho ake ki reira![Some might say that I might be dragging out my assumptions. Let me say this: to me the child's genealogy is the major platform but at the same time to my department it is Māoridom and the children naturally. That initiative is foremost to other ones so for me if 60 or 65 percent of the children within this department retain their ties the consequence the view the overview is the well-being of Māori children. That is my take on the situation and I will leave it there!]Metiria Turei: Does the Minister agree with the president of the Māori Women's Welfare League who has put in a claim to the Waitangi Tribunal about this bill "that the policy changes to a safe stable loving home without the existing priority of placement within whanau hapū and iwi is a breach of the rangatiratanga and partnership guarantees under the Treaty of Waitangi"?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Well ko te mate kē kai mua tērā take i Te Taraipiunara o Waitangi te tikanga ia ka waiho māna tērā pātai e whakatau kaua māku.[Well the problem is really that that matter is before the Waitangi Tribunal and technically speaking it is left for that entity to answer that question and not for me.]Metiria Turei: Has the Minister received any advice from the Government's support party the Māori Party that the bill will mean that more babies will be taken permanently from their whānau?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: I ētahi wā ā ka rongo i ngā kōrero pēnei i tāku e kī nei ki te mema. Kai te rongo ake i te tikanga o āna pātai kai te rongo ake ki te wairua o te pātai tōna mutunga kotahi tonu te kaupapa kai mua i te aroaro ko te tiaki i wā tātau tamariki. Koia nā te kaupapa nui! Mēnā ka eke tēnei pire ki tōna taumata ā taihoa ake nei ka whiriwhirihia ki roto i tēnei Whare Pāremata ka mutu ka rongo a taua wā ko te whakatau o Te Pāti Māori. Waiho ake mā rātau tērā e kōrero![Sometimes comments are heard like what I am saying to the member. I am hearing the intent and spirit of the questions but eventually there is only one philosophy before us and that is looking after our children. That is the important thing! If this bill reaches its pinnacle and in time it is considered in this House of Parliament eventually the Māori Party's consideration will be heard in time. Leave it for them to make that statement!]Metiria Turei: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. My question was very specific: has he received any advice from the Government support party the Māori Party about the interpretation of the bill—the effect of the bill? He did not answer that question.Mr SPEAKER: I think on this occasion he did. He acknowledged that he had received advice and said that in his mind the primary interest was the care of the child. The question has been addressed.Metiria Turei: Is he as Minister for Māori Development concerned that the current law allows for more Māori babies to be taken from their mothers at birth and that now this law will mean that those babies taken at birth may never know their whakapapa?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Ā mō ngā āhuatanga o te pire ka waiho ake mā Te Minita tērā e kōrero ēngari mō te wāhi ki a au ā-Māori nei ā-Minita nei ko ngā tamariki ko ngā mokopuna me noho tērā here ki wā rātau whānau. Koina te kaupapa nui kai tōku ngākau ka kaha nei au ki te tohe ki te pakanga mō tērā kaupapa kia tūtū ai te ara whanaungatanga ko te tamaiti Māori ki tōna iwi ki tōna whānau ki tōna hapū. Ka tohe au mō tērā pai mai kino mai.[In regard to aspects of the bill I will leave it for the Minister to express it but in respect of that which concerns me Māori- and Minister-wise children and grandchildren must remain bonded to their families. That is the main thing in my heart that I will debate and fight vigorously for in terms of that philosophy in stitching together the kinship pathway for the Māori child to his iwi whānau and hapū. Regardless of the outcome be it favourable or bad.]Rt Hon Winston Peters: In the very private and secret talks between the Māori Party and the Green Party recently why was he not able to sort this matter out?Hon TE URUROA FLAVELL: Ē aroha ki te pātai i te mea kāre Te Pāti Māori otirā ahau i kōrero ki ngā Kākāriki![In regard to the question it is because the Māori Party and at the same time I did not speak to the Greens!]"