Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8184] 
8.  
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
 to the  
Minister of Housing 
: How often are Housing New Zealand Corporation houses routinely inspected? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
 on behalf of the 
 Minister of Housing 
: As a responsible landlord the corporation is committed to ensuring its rental properties are looked after and kept in order. As a matter of procedure the corporation inspects properties twice a year or more frequently if required. Properties are also inspected after the end of each tenancy and before the beginning of a new one. 
Phil Heatley 
: How was a South Auckland tenant able to rent out a State house in its entirety for 4 years and live elsewhere without the scam being detected by routine inspections? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I will come back to the general question in a moment but I say to the member that if he has a particular case it is always useful to put the case down so he can have it answered particularly. But in general the subletting of State houses is not tolerated by the corporation. Where there are allegations of it they are investigated and appropriate action is taken. There are 66000 tenants. Most tenants are good tenants but occasionally there are people who do things that are abusive. For example 26 allegations of subletting are under investigation around the Panmure region at the present time but as in many cases it turns out that those will result in some being upheld; others will be the kinds of allegations that are made between neighbours who are in dispute. But the member can be reassured that it is the corporation’s business to ensure our properties are treated fairly. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: How often were State houses inspected in the 1990s under National Governments? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I have received reports on this matter that would— 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: He didn’t ask that. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The answer will be heard in silence please. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: It is a good answer. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please answer the question. 
Hon Maurice Williamson 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. That question was very clear. The member asked the Minister how often the corporation’s houses were inspected in the 1990s under a National Government. He did not ask about any report or about anything comparative. There is no ministerial responsibility for something that occurred under a previous Government last century that is not related to this Minister. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I am sorry to inform the member that there is ministerial responsibility if it is in the portfolio even if it is in the past. Would the Minister please address the question. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Properties were inspected twice a year. In other words the previous National Government ran a very similar regime to inspections that are carried out today. There is only one difference: National had fewer houses to inspect because it sold 13000 of them. 
Pita Paraone 
: Notwithstanding the state of repair of houses under the responsibility of the Housing New Zealand Corporation does the Minister believe that the Housing New Zealand Corporation’s needs-based allocation policy should look after the needs of New Zealand citizens first and foremost; if not why not? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Yes it should look after the needs of New Zealanders first with one exception. We agreed to take people into the country who arrive as refugees from places like camps across the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan. We agreed to take those people and settle them and they reside in State houses. 
Bob Clarkson 
: Why was another South Auckland tenant able to rent out an entire State house for a full 2 years and a Hutt Valley tenant able to rent out a State house for well over a year without being detected by the inspectors? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: Particular cases like that of course are investigated. I give the answer again that subletting of houses is not tolerated by the corporation. There are 66000 tenants. They are routinely investigated and where we have complaints the Housing New Zealand Corporation ensures that there is not the abuse of public property that subletting would imply. 
Phil Heatley 
: For what reason did the Housing New Zealand Corporation decide that the tenant who illegally rented out a State house for 4 years was allowed to reoccupy the house following the discovery of the scam? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: In the case of people who are in need of housing—I do not know the exact circumstances of this case—when I was the Minister of Housing I was often placed in a position where those people simply have nowhere else to go. I am sure Mr Heatley will know from reading the law that the Housing New Zealand Corporation is the only agency required to house people who have nowhere else to go. That may be the explanation. 
Phil Heatley 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister tried to weave himself out of the question by referring to when he was the Minister of Housing. Of course this person was subletting for 4 years. That was way back when the Minister was the Minister of Housing. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister did address the question. 
Phil Heatley 
: Does the Minister expect the public to believe his statement in this Chamber last year that such subletting scams were “extremely rare” given that we now know that 23 recent subletting scams were happening right under the Housing New Zealand Corporation’s nose and that routine inspections were not even picking them up so he would not have a clue whether these cases were rare? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I am sure the Minister of Housing would stand by that statement. As I mentioned before there are 66000 tenants. No one tolerates subletting. Where we find it those tenants are dealt with as they ought to be. What I mentioned before is worth Mr Heatley taking into account. Allegations are often raised but not necessarily proven because people are in dispute. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table an admission of the Housing New Zealand Corporation to the Social Services Committee about 23 proven subletting scams that have occurred recently—most rorts spanning well over 6 months. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.