Hipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeHipkins Chris: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 22 July 2014. Volume:700;Page:19268. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]10.CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka)to the Minister of Education: What evidence does she have that the Government’s Investing in Educational Success programme which removes teachers and principals from their classrooms for two days a week is the best way to spend over $359 million in order to raise student achievement?Hon HEKIA PARATA (Minister of Education):Tēnā koe Mr Speaker. Evidence from New Zealand and around the world informed the Government’s Investing in Educational Success initiative. To save the House time I would refer the member back to my response to question No. 7 from that member on 10 April of this year and to my subsequent responses to his repeated questions on the same subject. I suggest that the member spend time reading it as opposed to the other activities that the member might be spending his time less constructively on. In New Zealand—Mr SPEAKER: Order! I think that answer is complete.Chris Hipkins: Did she read the Treasury-commissioned working paper that found that smaller class sizes were associated with more completed education as of age 21 a lower incidence of unemployment and shorter durations of unemployment for those who did experience it; if so why did she instead choose to pay just 2 percent of teachers more rather than lowering class sizes?Mr SPEAKER: Hon Hekia Parata either of those questions.Hon HEKIA PARATA: I did not read that although I did read the Sunday Star-Times. Professor Hattie in his responses talked about the fact that certainly by reducing class sizes by two or three you will not see the difference at all. This has been tried in many many countries and quite frankly it is not going to make a difference at all. However can I also remind the member that in the period from 1998 to 2002 teacher numbers went up by 20 percent while student numbers went up by 5 percent and yet achievement flat-lined under that former administration. Under our Government teacher numbers have gone up by 15 percent while student numbers have gone up by 0.7 percent and achievement has grown. So it is not either/or I say to that member it is how you invest in both the number of teachers and the quality of their teaching practice. That is what this Government is doing.Chris Hipkins: Which of the following factors does she believe will be enhanced by the National Government’s policy of bigger class sizes: teacher one-to-one time with each student a teacher’s ability to manage student behaviour reciprocal teaching feedback between teachers and students and teacher professional development—all of which rank higher in John Hattie’s meta-study which she just quoted than many of the failed Government policies like charter schools and constant test-taking?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The member is quite wrong. That is not our policy. Our policy is about an additional $359 million investing quality teaching and leadership time. It is based on research from around the world. Indeed the member is well aware that in many collective agreement negotiations unions that support the member’s party have argued for exactly this. What we are doing is recognising the education profession. We are proposing that 1000 teachers will be recognised for their expertise—that is one in 50 teachers across the country—and that 5000 lead teachers will remain in their classrooms and continue to spread their expertise. It is based not only on research but on actual practice here in New Zealand.Chris Hipkins: What specific research can she point to that proves that the removal of a primary school teacher from their classroom for 2 out of 5 days in the week in every week will not impact on the achievement of their students?Hon HEKIA PARATA: The 4.5 million release time hours that we already provide to schools every year. They develop their professional practice they develop their expertise and they come back into their classrooms better off as a result—4.5 million hours of teacher release time.Chris Hipkins: Has she seen the report from the National Education Policy Center in the US that found that “Research supports the common-sense notion that children learn more and teachers are more effective in smaller classes.”; if so why does she continue to argue that paying 2 percent of teachers more is a better way of raising achievement for all students?Hon HEKIA PARATA: I have not seen that particular piece of research but it also commented by the way on partnership schools.Chris Hipkins: Was it not in the Sunday Star-Times?Hon HEKIA PARATA: Well you have more familiarity with the Sunday Star-Times Mr Hipkins than I do. What we do know is that unless the quality of the teaching improves it does not have an effect and so we are doing both. We have increased the number of teachers and are increasing our investment in the quality of their teaching practice.Chris Hipkins: You didn’t increase the number of teachers at all.Hon HEKIA PARATA: We have by 15 percent—if the member was listening—in the last 5 years while student numbers have gone up by 0.7 percent. Perhaps the member might like to use another supplementary question rather than barracking and not listening to my answers which is so helpful!Mr SPEAKER: And that will be over to the member to determine.