SpeechJAMIE STRANGE (Labour—Hamilton East): I appreciate the opportunity to take a call in this debate. Like previous speakers have done I acknowledge the Citizens Advice Bureau (CAB) many of whom are in the gallery today and the work they have done over many many years to support New Zealanders. From a local perspective I regularly attend the annual general meetings of the Hamilton Citizens Advice Bureau in Victoria Street. In fact there's one coming up in about two weeks. I fully appreciate the challenges that they face at times and the important work they do.In many ways it is similar to the work members of Parliament do. When people for whatever reason can't engage they come to a Citizens Advice Bureau or they come to members of Parliament or other services in order to unlock the services they need. Listening carefully to the debate it dawns on me that it appears that what's at the heart of this debate is around having a human-centred approach. A human-centred approach can exist online. Traditionally it exists face to face. It could exist on the phone and it will be different for each person in terms of how they engage and how they're able to engage but it is really important that regardless of what form the services take in New Zealand there is always a human-centred approach a personal touch and that personal touch will help to support social inclusion in my view.I grew up in a small town called Pirongia with less than a thousand people. I know it was less than a thousand people because our phone number was 650—it only had three digits. That was in the early 1990s. It was a rural town. There was no internet back then—my children can't believe it.Nicola Grigg: You're showing your age.JAMIE STRANGE: I am showing my age—I am; there's a few grey hairs. It was a rural part of the New Zealand and it was a different world to the world we're in now. However we did have access to services. We could pick up the phone or travel to a neighbouring town—in that case Te Awamutu or Hamilton in order to get those services. As society has evolved and technology has evolved many of these services have now gone online on to the internet. I've just had an example today where I phoned a business—I won't say what business—needing some service and went through the numbers. I pressed No. 1 I pressed No. 4 No 6 No 8 and finally I got to a point where they basically said Go to an online chat and ask your question on the online chat." I didn't know how to do that so I didn't and I still haven't done it. I guess the point I'm trying to raise is that there are significant logistical benefits to online services. We see businesses use them we are seeing Government agencies use them and it's important for us to continue to consider as we develop these benefits that they are accessible and that there is that human touch. Like I said right at the start that human touch can take different forms and I acknowledge that as a society we do continue to evolve and we do continue to bring in new technologies but it's important that we continue to have that human touch.Just in terms of the internet aspect and some of the comments that the Minister mentioned in terms of access to the internet it is certainly improving and I acknowledge the previous Government for the work they did as well. It has really been cross-party in terms of the rolling out of the broadband. Certainly as a Government we continue to do that in terms of reaching a large portion of New Zealand. There are two challenges with the internet in terms of what I read in the submissions. There are those who can't access the internet and there are those who don't wish to access the internet.Firstly in terms of those who can't it was quite clearly outlined by the Minister—and other speakers may also mention it—that the Government is making good progress in terms of that accessibility. It is very difficult in the extremely remote parts in terms of the challenge of the cost—there is that fiscal aspect to it. But with Elon Musk and others in terms of Starlink there are options.I see I'm rapidly running out of time but in terms of those who don't wish to use the internet it's important that public services continue to actively work in terms of supporting those who don't wish to go online. The Minister outlined some of those programmes that are happening and it is important that we continue to work hard on those."