Sepuloni CarmelHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development): Madam Chair I wanted to stand and speak. I know that this is an area that that member Melissa Lee is particularly concerned about as she's spoken to me about this. I hear her concerns. I do just want to say that the issue here is that this is a policy-neutral rewrite. So we've received that tabled amendment from Melissa Lee also one from Dr Yang. Both of them are proposing to make quite significant changes to our overseas pensions—the elements in our legislation that are specific to overseas pensions. This is not the place to make it. There are not policy changes that are going to occur as part of this policy-neutral rewrite. If they have suggestions with respect to overseas pensions and how they're treated through our Social Security Act then I suggest they use their right to put up a member's bill or something like that but not through this particular process. So I wanted to speak to both of them at the same time given that they are both on overseas pensions. I also wanted to say to the member Melissa Lee that I can't speak to the social security agreement that is being signed between New Zealand and Korea because it hasn't been finalised yet. So we're waiting for that and when that is done I'm sure not long after then that will be known to the public. Then at that point that will provide an opportunity for that member in particular given her interest in this area to scrutinise the decisions that have been made as part of that agreement between New Zealand and Korea.Can I also just refer back to some of the comments that were made earlier by the Hon Alfred Ngaro questioning what policy-neutral" is. Look we've had this conversation many times in this House and short of asking you to google search both those terms and put the definition together I will just say that we understand what a "policy" is in this House; "neutral" means no change. Therefore I think it's really—in terms of it doesn't make any significant proposals; so no significant policy proposals in this area. All it's doing is tidying up and making things consistent keeping in mind as I've mentioned in the House many times before that this bill was initially written in 1938 updated in 1964 and amended hundreds and hundreds of times. People like Sir Geoffrey Palmer have said that it's one of the worst pieces of legislation that we have on our books because it's so untidy which is why the previous Government committed to doing the rewrite in the first place. So I do acknowledge that we just had differences of opinion with regard to what "policy-neutral" was so that is why we've come to this committee with the Supplementary Order Paper.So I'm not going to continue to go over what is "policy-neutral". That same member—I was going to say Sir Alfred Ngaro. No; the Hon Alfred Ngaro! The Hon Alfred Ngaro also asked me to pre-empt what the welfare overhaul changes will be. Well that's actually not part of what we're discussing in committee stages here. I mentioned that some things may be considered there but I'm certainly not going to pre-empt those changes today in the committee or make any major announcements so we can lay that particular request to rest."