Court Simon; McAnulty KieranSIMON COURT (ACT): Thank you Mr Chair. Minister I just have to point out that no you haven't covered everything because my question was very specific: why is it that water services entities need to take actions to give effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi when the councils that built wastewater treatment plants dams for drinking water water supply networks for new subdivisions and for business which built stormwater detention ponds alongside new subdivisions or in urban areas to help mitigate the effect of pollutants entering the receiving environment—how come Minister the water services entities which will take all of those assets off councils suddenly have to give effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi? None of the assets were built before the Treaty was signed and none of the assets as far as I'm aware—and he may wish to correct me—are subject to Treaty settlement claims or have been claimed or have been settled have been transacted to an iwi. How is it Minister that this Government can justify including new section 5(h) inserted by clause 4(2)?And Minister while you're considering that would you also please tell the committee for those watching or listening at home what are the implications of requiring water services entities to give effect to Te Mana o te Wai? For those watching or listening to this debate they might ask: what is Te Mana o te Wai? Well there is a definition referred to in replacement section 6 inserted by clause 5(2A) in Supplementary Order Paper 418 under Interpretation" which says that "Te Mana o te Wai—(a) has the meaning set out in the national planning framework made by Order in Council … of the Natural and Built Environment Act 2022;". Now just to summarise for those listening or watching Te Mana o te Wai sets out that water has a spiritual dimension that water comes from the heavens and embodies the mauri or life force of a deity and then when it lands on planet Earth it returns to another deity: the earth. And what Te Mana o te Wai means in terms of the Resource Management Act or the Natural and Built Environment Act or the national policy statement for fresh water all of which have a relationship to the definition in this bill—what it requires is for decision makers to take account of how to give effect to Te Mana o te Wai. That means to take account of the cultural and spiritual values of one group in New Zealand's community who have the right to express their cultural values and to believe whatever they want to about the origins of water its life force and so on. But how on earth is a decision maker trying to decide how to build infrastructure how to design the discharge from a wastewater treatment plant to meet ecological values freshwater values swimming values wading values whatever they are—how are they supposed to take account of one culture's understanding of the life force of water when making decisions about what kind of filter to use whether we need to use a filter that treats it essentially to achieve some kind of life force standard or whether a filtration system simply to protect the ecology the creatures that live in the water and people who might want to swim in it is adequate? Because if you look at the challenges facing New Zealand infrastructure operators it's quite clear that the life force standard probably comes in at 100 percent premium Minister.So Minister would you please provide some justification for why water infrastructure operators need to give effect to the Treaty of Waitangi and how on earth they're supposed to give effect to Te Mana o te Wai the statements provided by iwi and hapū if they're asking for a standard of water treatment which meets their cultural needs but which far exceeds the actual biophysical needs of communities or receiving waters. Because it it's not clear how decision makers are supposed to do that.Hon KIERAN McANULTY (Minister of Local Government): While the obligations to fulfil Treaty settlements are in scope of this bill giving effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi or giving effect to Te Mana o te Wai are not in scope of this bill. The references in this bill are referring to the Water Services Entities Bill and the Water Services Act which was passed last year and the year before."