Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers Questions to Members 
[Sitting date: 28 August 2012. Volume:683;Page:4775. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
10. 
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister for State Owned Enterprises 
: Does he stand by his answer to Oral Question No 10 on 1 August 2012 regarding asset sales and water rights that “it is not to say that it is not expected”? 
Hon TONY RYALL (Minister for State Owned Enterprises) 
: 
 Within context yes. Putting my answer to the member’s question in full context I said: “Certainly it is not part of the plan but it is not to say that it is not expected. I think what is more important for New Zealanders is to find out whether the Labour Party supports the Maori Council claim on the water or not.” 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! That was not actually necessary to answer that question. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Given that the Prime Minister has stated that “The Government recognises that Maori have always had rights and interests in water.” why were these rights and interests not negotiated before the sale proceeds were booked by his Government last year before the legislation was rushed through the House in June and well in advance of the proposed float of Mighty River Power planned by his Government for the third quarter of this year? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: Because it is the Government’s view that the sale of a minority stake in the State-owned enterprises does not interfere with the rights and interests of Maori. This should be seen within the wider plan that the Government has to help control debt in the New Zealand economy. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does he stand by his statement of 5 March 2012 that the deal negotiated with the Maori Party over section 9 “ensures we can proceed with the mixed ownership programme without prejudicing the rights of Maori or the Crown’s ability to settle future Treaty claims.”; if so in light of the Waitangi Tribunal’s finding will he now admit that one he was wrong and two the section 9 deal with the Maori Party is now worthless? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: I would have to check the quote that the member has provided in respect of that question; I do not have it with me. But what I would say is that after the many weeks of consultation we had with Maori as a result of the section 9 issue it was transferred into the new section of the Public Finance Act. But as I said earlier in question time today the Government is considering with an open mind the almost 300 pages of Waitangi Tribunal recommendations that came out last week. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does he agree with the investment expert Brian Gaynor who said in regard to the Government’s mixed-ownership model that if it tried to float off a company with a huge amount of uncertainties the uptake by investors will be very poor particularly by experienced investors; if he does not why does he not? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: Quite clearly these companies are going to be owned 85 percent to 90 percent by New Zealanders once floated—if that is the Government’s decision. Of course New Zealanders fully understand how the Treaty negotiation process works and the interests and rights of Maori in respect of that. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Given that last week his colleague Bill English on his behalf stated that “We have been working with Maori over water rights and interests for 3 years.” does he as Minister take any responsibility for the last-minute decision-making and uncertainty around the asset sales programme given that it was all planned for according to him and his Government; if not why not? 
Hon TONY RYALL 
: There has not been last-minute decision-making by the Government. We have a path that we have been following and we have identified that there will be a number of challenges along the way. We are currently considering the almost 300 pages from the Waitangi Tribunal and the Prime Minister indicated yesterday a likely time line for that consideration