Nash Stuart: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeNash Stuart: New Zealand Flag Referendums Bill — In Committee[Sitting date: 11 August 2015. Volume:707;Page:5578. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]STUART NASH (Labour—Napier): I would like to talk about section 5A(1) in clause 69. What it actually says is that the “1902 Flag”—what they are calling the current New Zealand flag is the “1902 Flag”—“is recognised as a flag of historical significance to the Realm”. I do not know why the word “historical” is in there. It seems that by legislation we are already consigning the current flag to the past.Remove that word I would suggest because this flag is still of huge significance to a whole lot of New Zealanders and a whole lot of New Zealand groups. As has been mentioned those from the RSA in particular are affronted that this flag has already been consigned to historical significance. It is of huge current significance to the people of New Zealand. There is no doubt about that whatsoever. In fact I think that for the first time ever I disagree with Mr Goff on something. I actually like the current flag. I would like it to remain. But when Mr Goff talked about the fact that this was not put at a referendum in a general election—actually this was highlighted in the regulatory impact statement. The regulatory impact statement actually said that one of the main risks around this is that there will be disengagement. The way to really get engagement from Kiwis is to have this at a general election but we are not going to do that.The other point I would like to make is in respect of section 5A(2). It says: “Any person or body (other than a government department) may use the 1902 Flag except where required by law to use the New Zealand Flag or another specified flag for a particular purpose.” I would have thought that if the Prime Minister was spending so much political capital on this—and he is according to the polls because the vast majority of New Zealanders do think this is mistimed and is a huge waste of money considering all the issues we have got—then this legislation would actually be very very clear that the New Zealand flag must be flown at all times.Part of the reason we are told that we need a new flag is that there is confusion between the New Zealand flag and the Australian flag. Well what this legislation actually does is nothing to alleviate that confusion at all. In fact what it does do is it adds to the confusion because this legislation says that anyone apart from a Government department may fly the New Zealand flag. This gives them a legitimate right to fly the New Zealand flag at any time. It does say: “except where required by law to use the New Zealand Flag or another specified flag for a particular purpose.” I am not too sure what the definition of “a particular purpose.” is. I can make some assumptions but I have absolutely no idea what the definition of “a particular purpose.” is. So this just creates a whole other level of confusion.In section 5A(7)(d) it talks about “the days or occasions on which and the times during which the 1902 Flag or any other flag of historical or national significance may be flown:”. Again I have looked through the schedules and I could not find a list of days that this section relates to. I would love the Minister in the chair to stand up and just let us know. Is it all statutory holidays? Is it every Sunday? Is it only Anzac Day? Is it a day when people are allowed to wear their relatives’ or ancestors’ medals? I am not sure.The main aim of alleviating confusion about our national identity seems to have been taken away by this legislation because this legislation legitimises the right of every New Zealander to fly the 1902 flag. I think that what we will find probably as an element of protest is that there will be more New Zealand flags—i.e. the 1902 flag the current flag the one on my lapel—flown around this country than we have seen for a generation as people say: “I reject this whole process. I reject the fact that the Government is spending money at this point in time on a worthless cause when there are so many more important issues that we could be spending $25 million on. We will go out there and we’re going to fly that New Zealand flag.” In fact at my house in Napier I have a 100-year-old kauri flagpole and the flag that flies from that pole will be the 1902 flag. It is at the moment and it will be going forward. My house is not a Government department so according to this legislation I am allowed to fly that flag whenever I want to.But the other thing is that anyone can fly that flag—a Government department a Government ministry can. In fact the confusion that will be created by this is something that I think is a real anomaly in this legislation and I would have liked to see it disappear. I would have liked to see the Government have the courage of its convictions. If it is spending this amount of political capital then be clear. You fly the New Zealand flag or you do not. This bill says you can do whatever you want except on a couple of occasions and we have absolutely no idea of what they are.