Duynhoven Harry: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
Duynhoven Harry: Estimates Debate — In Committee 
[Volume:640;Page:10523] 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN (Associate Minister of Energy) 
: 
 I just want to clear up a few of the myths that are being promoted around here but let me begin by asking Mr Brownlee a question. He talked about a need for the Government to get away from the use of fossil fuels. The only way I can think of travelling in this country without using fossil fuels is by either bicycle or horse. I ask Mr Brownlee to tell us when he last rode a bicycle or a horse. It has all gone quiet. I tell Mr Brownlee to sit down; he will get his chance to come back to me with an answer. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I rise to answer the question asked of me by the Minister and seek leave to do so. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The member seeks leave to answer that question. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: I will deal now with some of the myths that Mr Brownlee talked about. First of all in the December quarter of last year 74 percent of New Zealand’s electricity use was from renewables. On average it is around 70 percent. We are ranked third-highest country in the world in terms of electricity generation from renewables. 
Let us talk about targets for Kyoto. National’s target for climate change initiatives to get to a sustainable carbon-neutral point is 50 percent by 2050. That is 43 years away. That is a 43-year kick for touch. This is the promise one makes when one knows one is going to be dead before the promise has to be honoured. That is what National is doing. Labour is actually dealing with the issues here and now in New Zealand. 
The important thing about burning fossil fuels such as coal oil or gas is that one takes responsibility for its emissions as we do in New Zealand and as we expect other countries under the Kyoto agreement to do. When we export coal we expect countries that are buying it to do that. Coal use for generating electricity is down in New Zealand. As a result— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: No it’s not! 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: I say to Mr Brownlee that I have not interrupted him. He should do me the courtesy of being quiet and listening instead of being rude. Coal use is down in New Zealand—[ 
Interruption 
] I say to Dr Smith that he should be quiet and listen. Coal use— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Three times! 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: No please be seated. The member knows that—[ 
Interruption 
] I am on my feet members. There will be silence. [ 
Interruption 
] We will just have some order please. There is to be silence when I am ruling. The point is Dr Smith that you were just barracking too much and I would ask that you have reasonable interjections. 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: Coal use is actually down since the E3P project came on because it uses the energy of that power station much more efficiently and generates more electricity for the same amount of coal use. Coal use in New Zealand has actually gone down since E3P was commissioned. But according to Mr Brownlee E3P was a massive mistake because it uses more fossil fuels. I just do not understand where he is coming from at all. Genesis— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I never said that. I think that E3P is a marvellous machine and we most certainly need it. The lights would be out right now if we did not have it. It is the only thing that is saving the Government from extreme embarrassment— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Ann Hartley) 
: Please be seated. 
Gerry Brownlee 
:—and it is a great thing. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Mr Brownlee I give you a warning. You know very well that that is not a point of order and to interrupt a member’s speech like that is just not on. 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: When there is little one can argue about I suppose that is the only tactic Opposition members have left. When they were in Government they did not take the initiatives or make the moves needed to ensure we had a secure energy future and now they oppose things like transmission line upgrades in order to ensure we can keep as Mr Brownlee says the lights on in our key cities. Genesis Energy says that the introduction of E3P—that massive three-stage gas turbine at Huntly—will actually reduce New Zealand’s carbon footprint in the energy sector by around 10 percent. That is substantial but it also ensures security of supply which is a major major objective. 
In 2012 this Government will be involved in whatever agreement the world is involved in at that time because climate change is a global issue. We cannot do it on our own but together with other countries that have a progressive and like mind we will make a difference and as is so often said New Zealand regularly punches above its weight in the world environment. Will the National Party still be following the lead of Kazakhstan by 2012 or—if it happens to be the Government at some stage in the future—will it be at the table negotiating in New Zealand’s interests? 
We were challenged a few minutes ago about climate change initiatives. I just wave a small document of 12 pages of Labour’s climate change initiatives. Now I could go through them one by one and tell the National Party and others in the Chamber precisely what the Government is doing. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Table it! 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: I am very happy to table it if the member would like me to. But what we have is a lot of crocodile tears and a lot of nonsense from the National Party which is actually jealous that it did not have the foresight when it was previously in Government to do much about security of supply for New Zealand or to do much about looking ahead for energy use. Mr Brownlee talked about—and he was I think energy spokesperson or deputy energy spokesperson for a while— 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: No that is an oxymoron Gerry and energy. 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: Well he will maybe answer the question about when he was last on a bicycle or a horse. But he must know having been in this place a while that one cannot simply bandy figures about on things like Maui. The Maui project was a huge project and with the technology of the day it was estimated that it had a finite field life that would end in about 2007 2008 or 2009. It was estimated at about that. What we have done in the period since by renegotiation of the Maui gas contract is make it possible for the operators of the field to extend the life of the field. This is very common in the oil and gas industry. 
Another marvellous example is the Kapuni field which was originally scheduled to be long closed. I remember at the age of 4 years old as a little tacker being taken by my dad to see the first flare at the Kapuni gas production site. Kapuni has— 
Simon Power 
: In a horse and cart. 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: No not quite in a horse and cart but it was close. It was a 1934 Morris Ten. 
 The issue is that Kapuni with massive changes in technology extensions and horizontal drilling of wells has had its life extended dramatically. It has produced vastly longer and vastly more than was ever proposed when it was discovered. That is what happens with oil and gas technology. One of the reasons the Great South Basin is now being developed—we have begun the exploration phase—is that we now know that it is possible if oil and gas is discovered there to bring that to market. 
That is what changed. The technology has changed dramatically. That is why Maui has been extended. As recently as 2 or 3 years ago there was no appreciation of quite how much longer we might get out of Maui. We think now it might be 2014. It may even be a little longer as extension technology and new techniques are developed. But that is what the oil and gas industry is all about. It is a highly technical industry with very competent marvellous people who are prepared to go out on a limb to test theories and they make a difference. 
As a country we have had to be responsible for our future. In terms of energy use we are a highly intensive energy-use country largely because of the fact that we are long and thin without too much in the way of but now greatly increasing public transport. Without a huge public transport network most of us depend on private cars for transport. As a result we are quite energy intensive. I have not heard anything yet from the National Party on what it proposes to do about oil and gas for those fleets of cars around the country for the trucks that our commerce depends upon for our railway system and for our agriculture. 
All of those things depend on diesel petrol and to some degree liquefied petroleum gas fuel. As a result we have been responsible and said that this country needs to find more oil and gas resources to keep our economy going. I am proud of that. I am proud of the climate change initiatives the Government has done. I am very happy at the end of my speech in about 30 or 40 seconds’ time to table all the initiatives. 
 I can say to National members that it is about time they thought about the interests of New Zealand and of our children and grandchildren. I am 52 years old I have children who are 15 13 and nearly 12 years of age and I want to see that they have a great future in a country that has a dynamic economy that has a sustainable future that looks ahead that is part of international agreements on climate change and that actually does something to ensure a sustainable viable future for this generation of people coming. National members can carp on all they like; they do not actually do the job. 
I seek leave to table a document dated 22 May of this year that is the Government’s initiative on climate change. It is 12 pages of tiny typed A4. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon HARRY DUYNHOVEN 
: I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I am sorry I inadvertently misled the House. The document is 15 pages. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: There was objection. Please members there will be silence during points of order. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I seek leave given that the Minister has told the House that the dependence on coal has reduced to table today’s Ministry for Economic Development figures— 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: —so the House knows what they are. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The member has clearly said what it is. There is objection. Leave is not granted.