8. Question No. 8—Social Development and EmploymentRICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and EmploymentQuestion No. 8—Social Development and Employment8. RICARDO MENÉNDEZ MARCH (Green) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: How many jobseeker beneficiaries if any get jobs as a direct result of attending work seminars they are required to attend to avoid benefit sanctions?Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment): The Ministry of Social Development (MSD) cannot provide this exact measure as the member was told by the previous Government. This new coalition Government is not content to allow New Zealanders to languish on the jobseeker benefit without proactive support or checking in on their progress to find work. We want them to experience the independence and opportunities that come from work. That's why yesterday I announced that 2500 additional people will receive greater face-to-face support through regular check-ins.Ricardo Menéndez March: How can she be confident then that these work seminars support people into employment when MSD does not measure any outcomes after attending seminars and people risk losing their benefit if they do not engage with them?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: It's not that the outcomes aren't measured; it's just that they are not accumulated across every single beneficiary. So if we look at a recent seminar in the top of the South Island 82 Kiwi job seekers turned up to that seminar; 64 secured interviews. Had they not been there they would not have taken that very important step of securing an interview that for some would have led to employment. Ricardo Menéndez March: What outcomes then are measured as a direct result of people attending those work seminars?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: The outcome is just that it's not collated as an entire figure. What we do know—and a recent one that I attended in Christchurch showed a number of people who are getting additional support whether it is being connected to training opportunities in this instance through Te Pūkenga—employers come along to those work seminars to find staff and find employees. In another business that I visited on the same day in Christchurch they have employed over 220 people off the jobseeker benefit who they find at these work seminars.Ricardo Menéndez March: How can she be confident then that increasing benefit sanctions will support people into secure sustainable employment when MSD does not know if any of the people attending work seminars to avoid sanctions actually as a direct result get a job not just an interview?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: When job seekers come into the range of seminars that are available—formal and informal—in Work and Income offices up and down this country they are getting assistance with interview techniques they are getting connected to employers they are getting assistance with CVs. For some of them it's getting them on the path to getting a driver's licence. These are practical things that address the barriers that some people face on their path to employment. There is not one thing that will support unfortunately the 190000 that are on the jobseeker benefit currently. We are doing everything we can. Yesterday was a first important step in the reset of the welfare system to support more people off welfare and into work and obligations and consequences are part of that.Ricardo Menéndez March: If she is unable to name direct related outcomes to attending work seminars—people getting a job—is it that she just wants to punish people further into poverty by increasing sanctions for not engaging with workshops that have no evidence of working?Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I've given multiple examples today. I've got a list of others if the House would like me to go through them but the reality is when someone is on a path to work there are sensible practical things they need to do. One of them is having a CV one of them is knowing what to do in an interview one of them might be to go on and do some further training and one of them is to actually meet employers and to connect with them to then be offered a position that leads to a job. I've given the example of one employer alone in Christchurch: 220 job seekers that that business has taken on. It is only fair to workers all over New Zealand that they know that those they are supporting on the welfare system are doing their bit to support them to find work: turning up to a seminar and getting support and assistance face to face with a great team of Work and Income workers is a great step. [Interruption]SPEAKER: Just wait for a bit of silence.Ricardo Menéndez March: Does the Minister disagree then with MSD officials who told the select committee that outcomes are not measured? Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I disagree that the total number of outcomes from work seminars across the country is not collated centrally. That is the point that I made in my primary answer. But of course we are very excited about the opportunity with this coalition Government to get more of the 190000 New Zealanders who are currently on the jobseeker benefit into work and particularly I've got a message for the parents of young people who go on to welfare under the age of 20: we will not sit and let those young people rot on welfare for 24 years.