Brownlee Gerry: General Debate 
Brownlee Gerry: General Debate 
[Volume:648;Page:17550] 
GERRY BROWNLEE (National—Ilam) 
: 
 I move  
That the House take note of miscellaneous business 
. The great question of the day is: what did Helen Clark learn when she had her 1-hour meeting with Winston Peters earlier in the week? What did she learn? We know for a fact that the first thing she learnt was that she could not have a confidence vote in the House this week. Following that meeting she had to phone up Michael Cullen and say: “Change the programme. We don’t want the appropriations debate voted on on Thursday afternoon. We can’t guarantee confidence. We haven’t got it sorted with Winston.” 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Order! 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: We saw the Government scramble around and get the numbers all lined up for the Lawyers and Conveyancers Amendment Bill (No 2) which became a priority for the week. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is probably OK for some people to be referring to members of Parliament by their first names but not when that member has been in this Parliament for some time. I at least have given him the courtesy of calling him Mr Brownlee or some other name before Mr Brownlee but I do not call him by his Christian name and he should do the same honour to me. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank the member. I did call him to order and I hope that he noted that. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I want to apologise for that. I was just so moved by the frequent reference to the name “Winston” by Condoleezza Rice on the weekend that I have been carried away. But I will now refer to him as Mr Peters. 
The issues here are extremely serious. We have had all these allegations swirling around for almost 2 weeks about the Owen Glenn donation about the Bob Jones donation and who knows what more and there are no answers. The Prime Minister caught in the headlights calls in Mr Peters has the meeting with him and simply says to Mr Peters: “Well was there anything dodgy in this?” He leans back in the chair and says: “No all fine and you’ll believe that or you won’t have my vote on Thursday.” That was the deal. So Helen Clark comes into the House— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. What that member just said is totally out of order first of all because it is false and second because any such implication was bound to bring disorder in this House. He should be asked to withdraw and apologise for what he just said was blatantly false but worse than that what can be inferred from it needs to be corrected now. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Can I just say to Mr Peters that there was so much noise I did not hear. But if the member said anything that caused objection the member has asked for it to be withdrawn and I ask the member to do so. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I have raised a significant debating point. In the vacuum of information that we have all we can do is to surmise. Am I starting again—I am not losing time for this I hope? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: No you are not Mr Brownlee. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: So here we are— 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker— 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I am doing quite well I think. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member was asked to withdraw. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Yes and he will. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: For what? 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member has taken exception to what has been said. It is leading to disorder and I am just asking the member whether he will withdraw. 
Hon Bill English 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I can understand that you were trying to deal with the situation but Parliament would like a bit more clarity. As you said yourself you did not quite hear what was said but a member is being asked to withdraw on the basis that another member took exception. We all take exception to things that are said in here every day and certainly it would have been better if you had heard it before coming to a judgment about whether it was out of order and does merit withdrawal. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Can I just say that the member— 
Ron Mark 
: Maybe I could be of some help. My understanding is—and you are well versed in the Standing Orders and I am pretty sure that you would quickly come to the relevant provision—that it is improper to suggest the corruption of a vote. It is out of order to suggest that someone is coerced into voting a particular way. That is a clear contravention of the Standing Orders and he should be required to withdraw and apologise. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I thank Mr Mark. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Firstly I would point out that there has actually been no vote and that was the point so there cannot be any coercion around that. But if it makes it easier I will withdraw and get to the substance of what I want to say which is simply this. Did everyone notice that after the meeting with Helen Clark yesterday suddenly the Order Paper changed and the confidence vote was gone? That was the deal so what is to be concluded from that? 
Mr Peters has repeatedly said in the media that he will clear things up and I think he should because there has been a crusade in this Parliament by New Zealand First for disclosure for transparency to expose influence to get rid of graft and to get a regime where people could know what is going on. New Zealand First members voted for that appalling bill that got passed last year—a bill that is totally anti-democratic. Now when they find themselves caught in the headlights they cannot explain two donations. So we need to have some answers from Mr Peters today. 
First Mr Peters might like to tell us whether he can deny ever giving the Spencer Trust or any agent of the Spencer Trust any instructions. It is a relevant question because we are told that there was a meeting with Bob Jones. There was a discussion and at a later time Bob Jones said: “I won’t give you $50000 but to get rid of you I’ll give you $25000. Send one of your people down to see me.” Then Mr McClay goes down there— 
Hon Member 
: Who’s that? 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Mr Roger McClay. A staff member of New Zealand First goes down there and asks Mr Jones—I am sure politely—“Please make the cheque out to the Spencer Trust.” Where did he get that instruction from—because apparently Mr Peters who is the beneficiary of that trust did not know it existed? So there is a question to be answered there. 
Then there is of course the issue of: if Mr Peters genuinely thought the cheque was for the New Zealand First Party why did he not declare it? 
Ron Mark 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I apologise to the member for interrupting him but amongst all the noise I could not quite be clear whether the Roger McClay he mentioned is the father of the National Party candidate— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member knows that is not a point of order. [ 
Interruption 
] Order! I am on my feet. Points of order are to be heard in silence. The member knows that is not a point of order. 
GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Why is it so hard for New Zealand First to answer the question? Why is it so hard to answer a simple question? What happened to the money? Why was it not declared either in the 2007 disclosures or in the pecuniary interests? 
Then there is the issue of the Owen Glenn cheque. This is truly puzzling. Here we have Winston Peters a man with 14 legal actions on the boil with lawyers crawling all over the top of all sorts of things—some against him some he has brought himself but clearly with very big legal bills. What are we being told? That he never looked at the invoice and noticed there was a $100000 credit on it? That he never bothers about what he owes in these circumstances? That he never bothered to find out whether there was a gift to him to help him out with his legal fees because if there was it needed to be declared? 
Then there is of course the question about the process by which it became known that Owen Glenn who gave half a million dollars to the Labour Party and $100000 to Winston got in line to be the consul.