Williams PotoPOTO WILLIAMS (Labour—Christchurch East): During the last session my general debate speech raised this very issue that we are debating today. In that speech I talked about how Rape Prevention Education and Wellington Women's Refuge had successfully negotiated a stay where they would not be required to provide the level of information that other services would be required to for a further 12 months—and in the words of the Minister—so that they could ensure that they would get the system right for that sensitive information that Rape Prevention Education and Wellington Women's Refuge would have to provide. So that leads me to ask the question: if that information is really sensitive is it still going to be sensitive in a year's time?What I was really concerned about was what I heard today from the Minister in response to this very very real urgent debate—that the Minister appears to have a real lack of understanding of what happens in the real world with providers delivering services to real people. I raised Rape Prevention Education but I also want to raise my own experience of having run a community outreach service which was right on the main street of Henderson—I have spoken about this before—where it would take several times for women going past our shopfront before they would actually come in the door. What that spoke to is that it takes a lot of courage for people to actually own up to the issues that they have and to seek that help—to reach out and get help—but particularly when it comes to issues of family violence and sexual violence because the mamae that people have the shame that they hold is there for a long long time and it is not rational. It is not rational. When I have done tours of the country talking to community organisations they have told me—every single one has raised this as a matter of concern—if you cannot establish a relationship of trust with your client you are unable to work effectively with them and you cannot establish a relationship of trust if they cannot even come in the door. You have to be able to be that safe place for people to come in and disclose their most intimate of issues.One particular service said to me that they provide services to teenagers and young people in high school—people who do not have the age of consent. How then are they going to be able to consent to provide their information to a party which is then going to hand it on to the Ministry of Social Development? This particular service—and I will not name it—deals with young people who disclose issues of family and sexual violence which under the rules of the Ministry of Social Development will require their parents to sign off the notification for that information to be passed on to the Ministry of Social Development. In some cases those parents are the ones who are perpetrating the abuse upon these children. So that is not going to work.I have been hearing those stories up and down the country and when I last spoke about this issue the Hon Jo Goodhew challenged me and said to me that you would only be required to give information that you would give to your local school. Let us see what that information is. The information is: name date of birth iwi ethnicity address the details of your children and the services that you access. When you are going to school the services that you access are educational services. If you are actually receiving mental health support or support from the community for alcohol and drugs and you are a parent and you are disclosing that you need that support then there is a very real fear in people who access these services that that information will then target them as being risky parents.That is a very real fear. It may not be rational but in terms of what is going to be required by the Ministry of Social Development it is creating fear and we cannot allow that to happen. We have to have trust in our relationships if we are going to work effectively with people. This does not allow for that to happen and I for one am really grateful to the Privacy Commissioner for actually raising this concern with us. Thank you.