Chadwick Steve: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Chadwick Steve: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:642;Page:12080] 
7.  
STEVE CHADWICK (Labour—Rotorua) 
 to the  
Minister of Forestry 
: What steps is the Government taking to address climate change in the land management sector? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON (Minister of Forestry) 
: 
 This morning the Government announced a comprehensive response to climate change including an economy-wide emissions trading scheme. The Government proposes under this scheme that forests planted after 1989 will be eligible for 100 percent of carbon credits as well as the liabilities generated by those forests from 1 January 2008. That along with a $50 million Afforestation Grants Scheme is expected to significantly increase the planting of trees across New Zealand. 
Steve Chadwick 
: What reports has the Minister seen on climate change in regard to forestry? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I have seen a blue-green document from the National Party that proposes to abolish the limits on deforestation. I have also seen a report saying the National Party would give only a portion—I repeat a portion—of carbon credits to forest owners. It is clear that there would be significantly fewer incentives to plant forests under a National Government than there are under this Government and that there would be absolutely no controls on deforestation. That comes from a party that has been screaming about a chainsaw massacre of 0.017 percent of our plantation forest estate. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Does the Minister stand by his press statement of 6 March this year in response to John Key’s call that carbon credits should be allocated to Kyoto forest owners now that the Government has adopted just that policy when in the press release he said the policy was “political naivety” fiscal madness “would create huge windfall gains for a few forest owners at the expense of ordinary taxpayers” and the “emperor of the National Party has no clothes”—or is it the Minister who is naked today? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I stand behind every one of those statements because at the time the Kyoto Forestry Association was asking for all the credits and none of the liabilities. Today what it got was the credits and the liabilities. When the association looks at the situation carefully it may decide that one should never ask for what one wants—one might get it. I do say that I stand behind those statements more than I wonder whether Mr Key stands behind his statement in May 2005 that the Kyoto regime and climate change were a complete and utter hoax. Then in a subsequent interview with Kathryn Ryan in 2006 he said: “I firmly believe in climate change and always have.” 
Steve Chadwick 
: If the Government does not devolve deforestation—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The member will please begin her question again. 
Steve Chadwick 
: If the Government does not devolve deforestation liabilities to those who convert forest land to pasture who bears the cost? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: Madam Speaker— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Who’s arguing about this? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: Well the National Party is actually. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: It’s a shame you didn’t get up early. 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: Coming from Gerry Brownlee a comment about getting up early— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Please be seated. The interjections are starting to create disorder as is the chipping across the House. There are opportunities to ask questions and there are opportunities to hear the answers. Would the Minister please address the question. 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: The member asks a very good question. If the Government were to abolish the deforestation cap as National proposed that would place no restrictions on deforestation. The taxpayer and the environment would have to pick up the bill for that. Meanwhile a few individuals would make handsome profits for themselves at everybody else’s expense. That is called the National policy of capitalising one’s profits and socialising one’s losses. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek leave to table National’s blue-green vision which makes it plain that National supports the allocation of those liabilities as well as those credits. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Supplementary question Madam Speaker? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I ask members who have documents they wish to table to do so at the end of the question. That is the convention. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. It has become a common habit of the Government for Ministers to grossly misrepresent in their supplementary answers National’s policy. I think it is best for the operation of the House that where those errors are made they be corrected immediately. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I will obviously use my judgment on that but those are matters of debate. This is question time. The member should ask his supplementary question. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Why did the Government in June 2000 decide to allocate to Kyoto forest owners the carbon credits then reverse that decision in July 2002 and state it would not allocate them and now change its position again to one of allocating the carbon credits to the forest owners; and is it any wonder that we have seen net deforestation of 10 million trees over these last 4 years when the forestry policy keeps flip-flopping all over the place? 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: The Government made no such policy statement unlike the National Party which between 2002 and 2006— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. My question was in respect of Cabinet decisions. The Minister thank goodness has no responsibility for National Party policy. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the Minister please address the question. The member is right. The Minister cannot address National Party policy but any reports that he has heard about that policy can of course be addressed. 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: That is true Madam Speaker. I am pleased that I do not have responsibility for it. But I point out to the House that between 2002 and 2006 11 climate change - related bills were put to this House and National members voted against every single one of them. How much credibility do they have on climate change with that kind of record? 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister is obviously quoting from a document and I wonder whether he is prepared to table it now because it would show how many of those 11 bills were actually passed and are still effective today. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: As the member knows having been here a long time it is for a member himself or herself to decide whether to table a document. Someone else cannot ask on a member’s behalf. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the Cabinet minute from June 2000 when the Government made an “in principle” decision to allocate carbon credits— 
Document not tabled. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the Cabinet minute from July 2002 when the Government rescinded that decision and said that it would not allocate carbon credits. 
Document not tabled. 
Hon JIM ANDERTON 
: I seek the leave of the House to table the record of the National Party’s vote against 11 climate change - associated bills. 
Document not tabled.