Samuels Dover: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
Samuels Dover: Foreshore and Seabed Bill — In Committee Speaker Recalled In Committee 
[Volume:621;Page:17068] 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS (Minister of State) 
: 
 To enlighten some of those members across the floor about wahi tapu perhaps I can share a couple of things with them. First of all I have just finished watching what was the  
Holmes 
 show. John Tamihere and Ken Shirley were on that show. I acknowledge my colleague John Tamihere because he put the facts of the bill before the New Zealand public. Ken Shirley who was somehow in his fantasy land started talking about taniwha. He said that the New Zealand public could expect taniwha running up and down the beach without any clothes on. He said there would be taniwha all over the place sitting on the rocks and running up and down the beach. He said that that is included in the bill. I relay to the member Nick Smith that the clause protects and gives Maori protection for wahi tapu that are already established on the foreshore and seabed.  
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Where? 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: There are a number. If the member listens and wants to know I make an offer that I can reserve a space for him in some of the wahi tapu that I know. There are very old burial grounds that have been subject to accretion. They have been subject to the tide movement. The tide at the beaches has come on to many wahi tapu right around this country. Those wahi tapu need protection. They need recognition. The protection offered to them in this bill means that people cannot just run over them with their four-wheel drives. I know that that member would probably take a four-wheel drive bulldozer to dig some pipis or something like that.  
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: Or take his tractor. 
Hon DOVER SAMUELS 
: That will prohibit him from taking his tractor with a trench digger to dig up some pipis.  
In my view this is very practical and very simple. I cannot understand that when we start talking about wahi tapu every party starts frothing at the mouth. The member over there jumps up and down about it. I put it this way: if there were a Pakeha wahi tapu we would support that. [ 
Interruption 
] I suggest that perhaps the member wants to go out and find the origins of his ancestors instead of this jumping up and down about wahi tapu and taniwha—having a korero and a fit about what Maori spiritual and cultural values mean. Good God! We are in New Zealand. We Maori respect some Pakeha spiritual values—Merry Christmas Happy New Year and Father Christmas. We respect that. I know that that member always sits at the bottom of the chimney waiting for Santa Claus to come down and fill his stocking. We acknowledge that.  
But when we as Maori people ask members to think about the things we hold dear in terms of spiritual values that is shocking! They talk about taniwha running up and down the beach and all that type of stuff. Let us get real if we are to have a debate about this bill. I know that underneath it all some of those members—at least those who have been defrosted—actually support this bill.  
I know that Georgina te Heuheu is very lonely sitting at the back of the Chamber. There is a word for that. It is called mokemoke—loneliness. “Loneliness is a time in your life.” I feel sorry for Georgina te Heuheu because I see that she is lonely. Do members know why? It is because her people Ngati Tuwharetoa support this bill. It gives them the right and the recognition. I say to the member across the floor that even Ngati Tuwharetoa have wahi tapu. We have to protect them even though the wahi tapu are beside their lakes. We give recognition to them. We go to the Maori Land Court. It is not a humbug wahi tapu. It is not a Clayton’s wahi tapu. We go to the Maori Land Court to prove that a place is a genuine wahi tapu so that it can be given the appropriate recognition under this bill. What is wrong with that?