Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill — Second Reading 
[Sitting date: 20 February 2013. Volume:687;Page:8082. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 










Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill







 




Second Reading






 






Dr DAVID CLARK (Labour—Dunedin North)




 






:




 
 I move  
That the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill be now read a second time 
. It is a pleasure to be speaking to the second reading of this bill. Like Mr Auchinvole for me this bill represents my first bill through this House and I am grateful for the opportunity to do that. I understand that Mr Auchinvole has gone to do media so he may not hear this speech in its fullness. But before I get too far into this address I do wish to put on record my thanks to other parties in this Parliament that have come together to support this bill. There have been pledges of support for this bill from the Green Party from New Zealand First from the Maori Party from the Mana Party from United Future and from Brendan Horan and without the support of all of these colleagues this bill could not proceed. I think it is a sign of how the Parliament can come together when there is something that is obviously a sensible thing to do that we ought to get on and do and that can just proceed without the need for the Government to be involved it seems. The Government is on the wrong side of this bill and yet it cannot stop its progress. 
The bill has returned from the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee with what might be described as only cosmetic changes. Those changes are aimed at clarifying for legal reasons its purpose. The bill is largely as it went into the select committee. It was very well drafted and for that I wish to place on record my thanks to Mr Robertson its previous sponsor. 






Grant Robertson




 










: That will be me not the Assistant Speaker. 







Dr DAVID CLARK





 












: Yes. It has continued to enjoy widespread support; 80 percent in the most recent Stuff poll is indicative of all of the surveys I have seen. The only quantitative survey of the business community that is available did actually survey 1000 small and medium enterprises so it could be seen as reasonably authoritative in that sphere. That survey recorded support of 50 percent in favour of the bill and if you add to that number in favour those who regard it in a neutral way you get to 87 percent. So there are 87 percent who either feel neutrally about it or support it. There are only 13 percent of that community who for one reason or another are not in favour of the bill passing—and it is fair to say even that has been a muted response. It is the kind of bill that enjoys very widespread support so that is why it is a pleasure to bring this bill to the House. It is one that has widespread support and that seems to represent common sense. It is little wonder too when it gives hard-working Kiwis some well-deserved time with their friends and family. We know that we work very long hours in New Zealand and this bill provides us with the opportunity to have a couple of extra days every 7 years. 
The bill addresses an issue that really occurs only in those years when Waitangi Day and Anzac Day fall on a weekend. It will amend the Holidays Act 2003 to provide for the transfer of the public holidays for Waitangi Day and Anzac Day if they fall on a weekend. The days of celebration will still be 6 February and 25 April respectively but there will also be a public holiday on the Monday that follows. The bill came into existence really in response to the situation in 2011 when Kiwis had only nine holidays in a year when they were expecting 11 public holidays. Mr Grant Robertson spotted that anomaly and identified a public mood for change. We know that in those years when we miss those holidays we really do miss those holidays. It is what we already do for Christmas and other public holidays. Christmas is still celebrated on 25 December each year even when it falls on a weekend. The only difference is that Kiwis know they can count on a holiday being added after Boxing Day. It is time they will get to spend with their friends and families. And it is exactly the same with New Year. When New Year’s Day falls on a weekend revellers do not hold off their celebrations. Instead they count on subsequent and additional days of recreation. 
It is also what they do in Australia by the way. We know that in Australia Anzac Day is already Mondayised in seven of its eight territories. In Western Australia in Victoria in Australian Capital Territory in New South Wales in South Australia in Queensland and in Northern Territory they Mondayise Anzac Day and anecdotally the experience is that they get increased turnouts at the Dawn Parades. It stands to reason. You can imagine that on a Sunday morning if you have got small children and you know you have got school the next day it is easier not to go to those kinds of commemorations. But when you know that you have got the next day to spend with friends and family relaxing it makes sense to take your family along. You might even travel to be with your family to commemorate the important occasion of Anzac Day. I think Anzac Day does have a growing significance for New Zealanders as a part of their national identity and as a part of our history and that is part of what this bill recognises—that growing significance to New Zealand of Anzac Day. The nearest equivalent of Waitangi Day in Australia is Australia Day and we find that in Australia again seven out of eight of its territories already Mondayise that day. It is only New South Wales that does not Mondayise. So the majority of Australians are used to this kind of thing; it is what they do there. It is what we are in fact used to with all our other holidays and it is a little bit of an anomaly that we do not already do this for Anzac Day and Waitangi Day. I guess that when those holidays were originally formed we perhaps did not celebrate them so universally as a country and in such a significant way as we do now. That is why I think the time has come to give these holidays the full recognition that other holidays have. 
I have been asked by a lot of people about when this bill will take effect and what it really means for them in terms of when the holidays kick in. For the record the Anzac Day holiday on 25 April next falls on a Saturday in 2015. That is the first time that we will have the Monday in lieu after this bill passes through to law and then Waitangi Day the following year. And then it is not until 2020 that Anzac Day falls on a weekend and again in 2021. Likewise for Waitangi Day it is 2021 and 2022. So until 2022 we can look forward to an extra 6 days’ holiday as a result of this bill. 
It is symbolic but it also recognises that in those years when we miss the public holidays we really do miss them and this fixes it. I guess it is a bit like a house that leaks. When it is not raining you do not notice it but when it is raining you do. Now that it is not raining—this year we did have our full complement of 11 holidays—we are taking the opportunity to repair the roof to make sure that we fix the situation so that we do celebrate these holidays fully in those years when they fall on a weekend. The bill overall if we look at it in broad perspective is about giving Kiwis a decent break. Kiwis deserve all of the holidays they get and this bill ensures they get those 11 public holidays each and every year. 







Hon Ruth Dyson





 












: Not many. 







Dr DAVID CLARK





 












: “Not many.” my colleague says—11. It could be more but 11 is a good start and that is what this bill achieves. 
We also know that there has been a bit of scaremongering. I wish to put on record that the Government’s numbers have been shown to be fairly inadequate. 







Grant Robertson





 












: Again. 







Dr DAVID CLARK





 












: “Again.” my colleague comments and he is right. The figures the Government came up with for the costs did not take into account the self-employed people who are not affected by the changes in public holidays. They ignored the benefits of domestic tourism which Martin Snedden made a lot of. It is strange that the Minister of Tourism has not come out in support of this bill. The industry is certainly hurting over that from those whom I have spoken to. Certainly I had the opportunity to be in the Coromandel over the break and people up there were unhappy with their electorate MP for the fact that the bill was not being supported. So we see around the country that the benefits were not counted. We also see that the numbers just do not stack up for a range of other reasons too numerous to mention here. 
I want in closing to say that the Labour Party is very proud to bring this bill to the House because it does give the full recognition that other holidays have and makes sure that hard-working Kiwis get to spend time with friends and family each and every year not just 5 years out of 7. Thank you. 






DAVID BENNETT (National—Hamilton East)




 






:




 
 Thank you to the members of all parties who have taken part in the deliberations on the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill at select committee level. I wish to pay special tribute to the sponsor of this bill Dr Clark who has done a fine job at the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee in bringing it forward. He has just made a speech about some of the reasons and the rationale behind what he is promoting. Unfortunately the National Party will not be supporting the bill at this juncture of the process but we do recognise the work that has gone into it and the role that has been taken by members of this House in looking at it through that process. 
Mr Clark’s speech talked about the bill being symbolic and there is an element of symbolism in it and there is an element of reality as well. As Mr Clark said over the next years leading up to 2021 and 2022 there are probably 6 days in total that the bill applies to. In essence it is a symbolic gesture in some ways but as has also been said it is an important gesture as well. But it does have a cost on an economy. It does have issues around those special days and the meaning of those special days. For those reasons the National Party declines to support the bill at this stage but we recognise the arguments made on either side of the debate and thank the House for its consideration and especially the select committee for its work on this issue. Thank you. 






DARIEN FENTON (Labour)




 






:




 
 I am very pleased to support the second reading of the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill which will restore to New Zealanders their legislative entitlement to 11 public holidays every year rather than in 5 of every 7 years. I again congratulate my colleague David Clark on the wonderful job he has done on this and it was a pleasure to be on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee to hear both the submissions on and his input into this. As the Government member David Bennett acknowledged he has done a very good job on that. 
Kiwis know a fair deal when they see one and that is what this bill is. Poll after poll has shown that the public is behind this because it is a sensible and fair measure. We will always honour Waitangi Day and Anzac Day but losing a public holiday when it falls on a weekend is not right. It is just not fair. So what this bill does is make sure that because that happens every 7 years Kiwis do not miss out on their well-earned 11 public holidays every year as in fact our holidays legislation guarantees. Over the last 20 years there have been more and more demands on working people for flexibility and for longer hours while at the same time job insecurity and anxiety continue to grow. Today increasing numbers of people are working on weekends and working longer hours as we have heard tonight—more than ever before. The current situation when Anzac Day and Waitangi Day fall on a Saturday means there is an unfair situation whereby for 2 out of every 7 years the public holiday entitlement as described in the Holidays Act is reduced. 
During the select committee I heard some of the Government members express concern that this bill will diminish the importance of Waitangi Day and Anzac Day. I do not buy that because 6 February and 25 April will remain as the days that the nation observes those days of special significance. In some cases Mondayising those days will make it easier for people to participate in events on days like Waitangi Day or Anzac Day especially in the weekend if travel is required. As David Clark has said most Australian states already Mondayise equivalent holidays—their Anzac Day and their national holiday—and there appears to have been no diminution of support for the significance of those days in Australia. In fact you could say this bill preserves the special nature of Waitangi Day and Anzac Day and there is an increasing recognition of the importance of those days in our history and identity. No one would suggest for a moment that Christmas Day has been diminished in importance by providing for Mondayisation where it falls on a weekend particularly for those who celebrate its religious significance. 










 So although the arguments that we have heard have been that this bill will reduce the importance and recognition of these 2 national days what I find really interesting—and this came out in the select committee process—is that the Government has bizarrely overlooked its own legislation the Holidays Amendment Act 2010. In that Act the Government legislated for the very thing the same thing that Government members have objected to—that is transferring the observance of a public holiday including Waitangi and Anzac Day to another working day. The Government argued then that that change was all about greater choice for employers and employees and could be made because of the operational needs of the employer or the needs of the employee but it appears to have changed its mind. 






Andrew Little




 










: So the day wasn’t that important? 







DARIEN FENTON





 












: It was not that important and no one can blame us for being puzzled about that when you go back to the original bill in 2010. The example given in the explanatory note said: “if Waitangi Day falls on a Wednesday an employer and a group of employees who work Monday to Friday may agree to observe Waitangi Day on the Friday.” That was given as an example in the bill and another example was Anzac Day. How bizarre that we had these objections from the Government when its own legislation in 2010 actually provided for Anzac Day and Waitangi Day not to be given the significance that it would like to claim they have. So this Government has already legislated for that in the workplace. This bill of course does not do that. It does not transfer the day. It recognises those days on the days they fall and it does it in the way that Christmas Day and Boxing Day have full recognition where they fall on a weekend. 
The next argument we heard during the select committee process was about cost. There were businesses that supported the bill. There were polls among businesses but the Government did a pretty good job in financial scaremongering. The worst figure it came up with was a cost of 13c per worker per day yet its own advisers admitted that that is likely to be overstated. It quoted figures deliberately excluding the 208000 self-employed people who are not affected by changes to public holidays. Actually they do not get public holidays and that is another issue that we would like to talk about some time. The Government also ignored the increased benefits to domestic tourism and the ability of flexible businesses to absorb and adapt to change. Most businesses already budget for 11 public holidays a year and should be able to absorb what is a very small additional cost over a 7-year period. 
The Tourism Industry Association made a fantastic submission. It was wonderful to hear such a progressive organisation. I want to congratulate Martin Snedden and the industry on their submission. They came with a wonderful submission as I said because they could see the twin benefits of boosting domestic tourism and giving Kiwis a decent break. I find it amazing that as the Minister of Tourism John Key does not agree with them. He is letting his industry down. He is not listening to it. It is time he stood beside the thousands of tourism operators who will benefit every year not 5 years out of 7 years if Kiwis get the same number of public holidays. This bill will be a win for tourism operators right throughout the country—in the small towns in the regions in many of the places that those members over there claim to represent. They should be listening to them. But it is also a win for hard-working Kiwis. John Key is offside on this bill with Parliament with public opinion and with the industry he is supposed to support. It is time he gave Kiwis a break and supported the bill. 
Unlike the National Government Labour believes that the economy should work for people and communities. That means it is not always about cost. Progressive businesses understand that time out is important to productivity and that their workers are not and should not be slaves for the business all of the time. The National Government does not get that. It talks the talk. It talks and talks about work-life balance but it does not walk the talk. When we come up with something as simple as this bill and as minor as this bill it cannot bring itself to support it because that would give workers a break. Its idea of flexibility is all one way. I just want to remind the House what our Holidays Act says. It says its purpose “is to promote balance between work and other aspects of employees’ lives …”. It is to give them time with their families and “the opportunity for rest and recreation” and it is time to celebrate “public holidays for the observance of days of national religious or cultural significance:”. That is what our legislation says. At the moment that is not fully fulfilled. This bill will fulfil that purpose. 






MIKE SABIN (National—Northland)




 






:




 
 It is a pleasure to rise and take a call as a new member of the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee. I am privileged to take up the deputy chairman’s role on the committee and join this discussion. 
Can I firstly acknowledge the work of David Clark on this Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. He is a hard-working young man which of course puts him in the distinct minority in the Labour caucus. But none the less he is a hard-working young bloke and has brought an interesting bill before the House. 
There has been some discussion this evening about where days fall. I want to reflect back on 25 April 1915 because it was not days that were falling; it was Kiwis and Australians who were falling on the blood-soaked beaches of Gallipoli in the name of freedom peace and the democracy that we enjoy in this country and is enjoyed around this world today. Anzac Day is something that is etched into the hearts and minds of every New Zealander. I think everyone in this House would concede that. As a former naval officer I feel very strongly about the importance of that day in signifying the reverence and the remembrance that Anzac Day has now become. It is a day on which we celebrate our nation and those who have fallen in the name of our nation and indeed in the name of world peace. The commemoration of Anzac Day happens on one day and one day alone and that is 25 April. 






Andrew Little




 










: That doesn’t change. 






Darien Fenton




 










: Not in the workplace. You changed the law. That party changed the law so that that holiday can be transferred in the workplace. 







MIKE SABIN





 












: There are certainly some valid points coming from the other side about work-life balance—something that those Kiwis never had a chance to experience because they are still lying on the shores of Gallipoli. 
I want to just focus on Waitangi Day. As the member of Parliament for Northland obviously this day holds special significance to me but it actually holds special significance to all New Zealanders. On 6 February 1840 the Treaty of Waitangi was signed and there will only ever be one Waitangi Day. The name of this bill is the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. Is it really full recognition? That is the question that I would have. Or is it just another long weekend? 






DENISE ROCHE (Green)




 






:




 
 Tena koe e te Whare. Tena koutou katoa. The Green Party supports the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill and we support a good work-life balance for all New Zealanders. We believe that this bill will enable workers and their families to enjoy the full entitlement of the Holidays Act to 11 public holidays per year every year. Under the existing Holidays Act every 2 out of 7 years those 11 public holidays reduce to 9 days a year because Waitangi Day and Anzac Day are celebrated on specific days. When one of those days falls on a weekend the holiday is not transferred to a weekday so people do not get a day off. They do not get their full 11 days. Four of the other 11 public holidays also occur on the day on which they fall. That is what happens currently for Christmas Day Boxing Day and New Year’s Day and the day after. When these days fall on weekends the law allows for them to be transferred to weekdays so that workers get the full entitlement to those days as holidays. 
The Greens maintain that the difference in treatment between Waitangi Day and Anzac Day and Christmas Day and Boxing Day and the days after those 2 days is an anomaly. We reject the notion put by some submitters—and put by the previous speaker I might add—that it will cheapen the commemoration of either of those very important holidays. We have not seen any evidence of this happening resulting from the Mondayisation of Christmas Day in particular. 
Australia already transfers Anzac Day to the following Monday so this is another area where it beats New Zealand. It transfers Anzac Day to a Monday when it occurs on a weekend and the day’s commemorations are still held on 25 April. Even with Mondayisation Anzac Day events in Australia are extremely well attended. 
The Mondayisation of Anzac Day and Waitangi Day might actually increase participation in the events that commemorate these special New Zealand dates. This year like many of my colleagues in this House I was at Waitangi over Waitangi Day. It fell midweek; it fell on a Wednesday. I am sure that other members who were there will agree that there was a much lower turnout this year than there has been in the last few years. When I asked locals in Paihia and at Waitangi why that might be they said it was because the day fell on a Wednesday. They said that they always had a much better attendance when the days fall closer to a weekend probably because it becomes difficult to tack on another day to make a longer break to ensure that they have time off to justify the trip to this important historic place to participate in the commemoration activities. The local businesses were really noticing the reduced business from the lower turnout I have to say. Ensuring that Waitangi Day and Anzac Day are transferred to a Monday when they fall on a weekend means that small hospitality businesses like those in Paihia will benefit when workers take advantage of having a 3-day weekend. This stance is supported by the Tourism Industry Association of New Zealand which submitted during the select committee process— 






Mike Sabin




 










: Talk about tourism in your own electorate—oh that’s right. You haven’t got one. 







DENISE ROCHE





 












: —which I do not think Mr Sabin was present at. The Tourism Industry Association cited a Mind Your Own Business survey conducted in July last year of mostly small businesses which showed that only 13 percent of those businesses opposed the Mondayisation of Waitangi Day and Anzac Day and that over 50 percent supported the idea. The Tourism Industry Association said in its submission that the Mondayisation of Anzac Day and Waitangi Day is an opportunity to increase domestic tourism. It said that those economic benefits outweigh the small costs to employers. 
The costs are not outrageous. Employers already bear the cost of these public holidays for their staff when Waitangi Day and Anzac Day occur on a weekday and it will not be onerous. The next time Waitangi Day and Anzac Day occur on a weekend is in 2015 and 2016 and then not again until 2020 and 2021. So employers will certainly have a good lead-in time to prepare for it. 
We have this idea that we are a generous people in this country. As well as the “100% Pure New Zealand” myth that we continue to pretend is true we also think that we are generous laid-back and to quote the Prime Minister’s favourite little word “relaxed” about things. The reality is a lot different. It is hard to relax when there is no chance to relax. During the select committee process we heard—and I respectfully acknowledge that Mr Sabin was not present for that one either—from the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions who presented well-researched information on what is happening to workers in this country. The truth is that New Zealanders work relatively long hours and our combined minimum annual leave and public holiday provisions are lagging behind many European countries. Workers do need time to have holidays. Over the last three decades we have seen the steady erosion of pay rates and working conditions especially for low-paid workers. We have created a low-wage economy. We hear countless stories of workers working longer and longer hours simply to make ends meet. In the last few weeks I can point to several articles in the  
Dominion Post 
 and the  
New Zealand Herald 
 about the plight of low-paid workers and their inability to make ends meet on 40 hours of low wages. 
Aside from keeping people poor those long hours and low wages have a huge impact on families on our communities and on our ability to relax and have a relaxed society. Long hours isolate workers from their families. How can anyone be a good parent when they cannot spend time with any of their kids because they are working 70 or 80 hours a week? How can anyone volunteer to coach a netball team or deliver Meals on Wheels when there is no spare time to deliver them? It is for this reason that many faith-based organisations and unions are campaigning for a living wage. That living wage has been set at $18.40 per hour for a family with a full-time parent worker and a part-time parent working to provide for their two children to provide a decent standard of living and to enable them to participate fully in their communities. Central to this idea is the ability for families to have time off to rest and to relax. Workers need a break. Good working conditions good wages and enough time off work to rest create business benefits and reductions in labour costs and that has been proven. 
Ensuring that workers get their full 11 public holidays a year will benefit not only workers but businesses as well. It is good for the economy and for businesses in the tourism sector. We support this bill and we commend it to the House. 






ANDREW LITTLE (Labour)




 






:




 
 It is a great pleasure to take a call on the Holidays (Full Recognition of Waitangi Day and ANZAC Day) Amendment Bill. I want to begin by acknowledging the fine work of my colleague Dr David Clark in shepherding through this very important piece of legislation which is about recognising and genuinely and truly having an opportunity to celebrate these very important days. 
I acknowledge the comments made by the member opposite Mike Sabin who apparently is to join us—or who may have already joined us—on the Transport and Industrial Relations Committee which is I might add a very important select committee with a hard-working chair who has the record for running the shortest select committee meetings I have ever known of; I think we had it down to 4 minutes on one occasion which only narrowly beat the 7-minute meeting we had the week before. The point is this— 






Simon O’Connor




 










: Move on. 







ANDREW LITTLE





 












: No it is a very important committee and it deals with very important legislation not the least of which is this bill. 
The important thing is this. Mr Sabin made this point and he drew upon the treacherous work that the soldiers of the Anzac undertook when they were sent off to the Dardanelles. They left these shores not really knowing where they were going or why they were going there many conscripted. Of course we know that World War I was an important period in the formation of the Labour Party because it was many people who were opposed to the war and the reasons for it who formed the basis of the union Labour Party. But those men—and they were largely men—who were sent to their deaths in that tragic farrago of a military event did so not because they were fighting for extra work days and not because they were fighting to generate more profit for their employer. When they laid down their lives they did so because they wanted to preserve the freedoms that go with living in democratic and liberal democracies like ours. They fought for a cause that was about life and humanity and about themselves as parts of communities and families. That is what they were fighting for as they did in World War II and as they have done in just about every other war since. It is ultimately about humanity. 
If there is any piece of legislation that reflects is part of and expresses our humanity it is the legislation that gives working people the right to take time out from their work—from having to work for others placing themselves under the submission the control and the command of others to earn a wage. It is legislation that allows people to express themselves in their communities as people and as family members. This legislation is about taking the 2 days that define this nation this fine nation of ours and saying that we are going to observe them. And in the weeks in which they fall you will not have to do your regular full working week. You will be able to take time out—as you would do when these days fall on a working day—and properly respect and observe these important days. 
That is to apply to Anzac Day which was part of our nation-building history and which if it did one thing alone that was important to this nation forged a sense of solidarity. It was the origins of our identity: we were not just cannon fodder but were a nation that was part of the comity of nations making up the Commonwealth; we stood with our brothers and sisters across the Tasman to assist our colonial fathers in far-flung fields. We forged our identity as a fighting force and as good people and we learnt the lesson of solidarity. That is what we brought back from it that is what we learnt from Anzac Day and that is what we will be able to celebrate when we get to properly observe Anzac Day and actually take a break from our regular working week every year in the week in which Anzac Day falls. 
Debate interrupted.