Upston Louise; Sepuloni Carmel; O'Connor GregHon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō): Thank you Mr Chair and congratulations on your appointment to the role. I want to join my parliamentary colleague Jan Logie from the Green Party because I think the issue of timing is significant in this bill. I actually want to bring the words of a former member of Parliament but not one from my side of the House; one from the Labour side of the House and that is of course a former leader the Hon David Cunliffe who also in his submission talks about the fact that the bill specifically weakens the Children's Commissioner undermines the Commissioners' independent oversight of Oranga Tamariki." and "the truncated process and the drafting of the Bill clearly fails to consider children and young people's perspectives". This is of course something we've heard throughout.I would be interested in the Minister tabling a list of the organisations she has consulted with since the departmental report and since the report back from the Social Services and Community Committee because that is the bit that is invisible to the Parliament and I think it would help in our deliberations if the list of the stakeholders could be tabled. So that is a request that I'm making of the Minister in this section. There aren't many occasions in the Parliament where every party except one is opposed to the bill and that's why we have to traverse this in detail. So I want to specifically raise and ask questions of the Minister in response to the submission that was raised by the Hon David Cunliffe who specifically said that he doesn't support the bill in its current form and recommends that it not proceed until more work is done specifically that progress on the bill should be paused to allow the specific issues related to the monitoring of Oranga Tamariki and the structure and function of the Children's Commissioner to be more thoroughly considered.He even goes as far as recommending the Minister take time to take this back to Cabinet and I would like to put that offer on the table from the Parliament today to say we would be happy. I'm looking at my colleagues across the House. We would be happy for the Minister to take time to fully traverse these issues. We now have a very complex set of Supplementary Order Papers (SOPs) before the Parliament and what I do know from 14 years in this place is that legislation that is driven through with masses of SOPs creates great risk in the law coming out wrong. I put this plea—I put this plea—to the Minister: we do not want to get this wrong. We do not want to get this wrong. So the offer from the National Party and from others would be that we take a breath on this bill. I appreciate the fact that the Minister has met with stakeholders and sees fit to make some improvements to this bill. We would like to be supportive of that and to do it properly and thoroughly.There's been nothing that we've heard that drives any urgency for why this bill has to be passed by a certain date. So I would ask the Minister to provide a list of the stakeholders that have been consulted since this bill was reported back from the select committee and I would ask the Minister to consider very seriously pausing this bill so that many of the issues that she herself has raised with changes in the SOPs and parliamentary colleagues have in their SOPs could be considered fully. It would be a wonderful day in this House for our children and for the children in the care of Oranga Tamariki to have a Parliament that is unanimously supporting the legislation. I think we could do that. We could do that if we took time and did it properly. So that is my request and my questions of the Minister.Hon CARMEL SEPULONI (Minister for Social Development and Employment): The submission that David Cunliffe made and the points that the member Louise Upston has raised that were in his submission are not within scope of Part 1. I am going to stick closely to the provisions in the bill because that is what we are here to debate. I will say that if the other side of the House want to speak broadly to this bill they should have sought leave to take this as one part. I am quite happy to speak specifically to the parts and the clauses of the bill but I will not be going out of scope of the bill.CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): I'd just state that these primary provisions do give the opportunity to be broader-ranging. We are moving out of the provisions of Part 1 and I will be looking for speakers henceforth to be concentrating more on the provisions in Part 1. We've had a fairly wide-ranging debate to date and we'd be looking for a little more specificity now please."