Willis NicolaNICOLA WILLIS (National): I want to know if the Minister of Housing remembers a Social Services and Community Committee hearing where she sat next to the chief executive of Kaīnga Ora Andrew McKenzie. That hearing took place on 9 June and at that hearing I put to the Minister and Mr McKenzie allegations that have been put to me repeatedly by housing developers across this country who have come to me on multiple occasions to say You know the problem is this Labour Government has filled Kaīnga Ora up with so much money they've put so much cash in the piggy bank that those guys are going around the country spraying the money around it outbidding the private sector for land such that we can't compete." They're outbidding they're pumping up the price of land and they're doing it with no commercial discipline whatsoever. I said to Mr McKenzie "How do you respond to these allegations that you're flinging the taxpayer's cheque book around?" And I got specific. I raised the specific example of Swanson Road a property that I had been told on good conviction that Kaīnga Ora had allegedly offered around $36 million for whereas the nearest underbidder allegedly made a bid of $26 million dollars. And I put to Mr McKenzie that the story being told around New Zealand boardrooms is that what then happened was that the developer community got wind of this overbid threw their toys Kaīnga Ora got ear of it the heat went on and they found a reason under due diligence to withdraw their bid. And I said "I'm troubled by this because what that tells me is that Kaīnga Ora was prepared to pay $10 million more than the market for that property."And Mr McKenzie he dismissed my concern. He said "The winning tenderers were a small amount below us." and "The purchaser purchased it for within $2 million of the amount that we had assessed it subject to due diligence." So you can imagine that I was pretty upset when some time later Mr McKenzie wrote to that select committee to say that the comments he had made were incorrect—that in fact Kaīnga Ora had been told that the final purchase price was $8.3 million less than the offer they had made. That is to say that the allegation I had put was substantially backed up by the real numbers.So what did we do? We saw that Andrew McKenzie whether knowingly or unknowingly had mislead a parliamentary select committee on aspects of fact. He had misled that committee so we wrote to the committee and we said we would like the chief executive of Kaīnga Ora to appear before us to explain this to explain this and—Angie Warren-Clark: Point of order.CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): A point of order Angie Warren-Clark.Angie Warren-Clark: Thank you Mr Chair. I'd just like to—NICOLA WILLIS: Cover up again like you did?CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): Order! This will be heard in silence.Angie Warren-Clark: I'd just like to raise that the official does not have the opportunity to defend themselves from this House and I would like to also advise that the official wrote to us and noted the matter without prompting from anyone.NICOLA WILLIS: Ha! Mr Chair I'll respond to that.CHAIRPERSON (Adrian Rurawhe): No no e noho! I'm going to rule on this. You don't get to interrupt. The member is quite right: officials don't have any ability to respond. However what I say to the member is she is sailing really close to the edge and she should be very careful and not let the emotion tip her over that line.NICOLA WILLIS: Mr Chair I take your point entirely and I take the point that Angie Warren-Clark has made because I think there is a very important principle here and that is that officials should have the opportunity to address issues of this nature. That is why I together with my National Party colleagues wrote to the Social Services and Community Committee asking that Mr McKenzie be recalled pursuant to Standing Order 191 so that he could better explain these matters for the House. And I would note for the record that Labour members voted against that.I find that I find that very upsetting because I think there should have been the opportunity for Mr McKenzie to explain how this error was made. And I make no judgment on whether the error was his or someone who advised him. What I note for the record of this House is that the allegation I made in the select committee was substantially backed up by the facts but only after the fact and I find that troubling. I find that troubling in the context of an organisation that the Public Service watchdog is investigating on issues that in his own words go to trust and confidence in the Public Service. And I put to this committee that we have evidence before us in the letter from Mr McKenzie that demonstrates this is not the first time that Kaīnga Ora had willingly or unwillingly mislead members of the public. I find that very troubling.But the bigger issue that I would ask the Minister to address is this: is she confident that Kaīnga Ora with the billions she has allocated to it in this Budget will not be bidding up the price of land in New Zealand that Kaīnga Ora will not be grossly outbidding other private housing developers for land that it won't be squeezing out those who wish to get on and build housing and that when it does acquire land it will do so having demonstrated that it will build houses quicker than those private developers could have? I think those are very legitimate questions for this committee that the Minister should answer."