Tolley Anne: Urgent Debates — Mt Eden Corrections Facility—Serco’s PerformanceText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeTolley Anne: Urgent Debates — Mt Eden Corrections Facility—Serco’s Performance[Sitting date: 21 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5131. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]Hon ANNE TOLLEY (Minister for Social Development):That member Jacinda Ardern is absolutely wrong on every single count. That is the problem with this debate and that is the problem with the Labour Party members: they are all about emotions insinuations and allegations and they are not about the facts. They are not about the facts. So let us put the facts on the table. These are bad people. That is why they are in prison—because they are bad people. The first role of corrections is to keep the communities safe from them OK? It is not unusual for there to be incidents of violence in our prisons. None of us condone it none of us want to see it happen but the reality is that it does happen. And the facts are that it happens in State-run prisons as well as privately run prisons. No you would not know that from the previous speakers.That member has only to look at some of the assaults that happen. I was Minister of Corrections when there was a riot at Spring Hill Corrections Facility. Prisoners set a whole wing on fire and I did not hear the Labour Party calling then for all prisons to be put under private ownership because the State could not run a prison and keep prisoners safe. So this is hypocrisy. This is all about the absolute hatred that the Labour Party has for any private enterprise in this country. It believes absolutely that the State has to play all roles and no one else can do it. The facts just do not support that. The facts are that Serco actually had a very tough year. The first year that it was running Mt Eden it made a hang of a lot of mistakes and I think we fined it something close to $1 million. We can do that when mistakes are made in the private prison. We can penalise the prison financially and we did. When the same mistakes are made in a State-run prison we cannot have those same sanctions. We do not have the ability to pull those levers to get better behaviour and that is one of the advantages of having a private company running a prison.The previous speaker talked about Wiri Prison and about how somehow we are closing down old antiquated prison wings around New Zealand so that Serco can run a full Wiri Prison. I mean that is absolute nonsense. Again the facts are that a thousand prisoners are currently out of Auckland because there is not room to house them. The facts are that the New Plymouth Prison was built in the 1800s and it is appalling that the Labour Government locked people up in cells that were designed in 1880. I think that is shameful and that is the prison system that we inherited from Labour. This National Government cleaned up corrections and focused our prisons on rehabilitation. We are spending much more on mental health facilities. We are building a mental health facility in Pāremoremo and we built a unit out at Rimutaka for prisoners suffering from dementia. The Labour Government never did any of that. We are focused on rehabilitation. We are spending money on education to make sure that prisoners have an education and some training when they leave.The leader in this area has been Serco. If you look at that new Wiri Prison Serco has come in and shaped the whole building of that new prison around prisoners’ rehabilitation around training and around getting them jobs out in the community. If you look at the way that Serco has managed mental health in the Mt Eden prison it has changed the way the State system looks at dealing with patients with mental health issues. Now I would be happy to have the argument in this House about whether people should end up in prison when they actually have a mental health issue. Let us talk about that. That would be a worthwhile discussion to have. But at the moment they end up in prison and Serco in Mt Eden prison is dealing with them in a completely different way from how we have ever dealt with them before and having huge success. It was Serco that first introduced at Mt Eden a different way of treating the children of prisoners who had to come and visit their parents. Again that has led massive changes throughout the State sector.So yes—yes—there has been talk of fight clubs in Mt Eden since long before Serco came on the scene way before people came on the scene. We now have good evidence as to who is taking part and the fact that it is taking place. There are legitimate questions to ask and the Minister’s review will do that. But it is stupid to stand in this House and talk emotionally and talk about a philosophical view that both the Labour Party and the union have against private prison provision because the facts are that on things like rehabilitation and reoffending the privately run prison in Mt Eden is exceeding the record of our State-run prisons.Jacinda Ardern: It’s a remand prison—it’s a remand prison.Hon ANNE TOLLEY: And all of that is taken into account. If that member actually did her homework instead of flouncing around at social events she might actually be far better informed about what goes on.So I do not have to defend Serco; its record actually stands for itself. That is not to say there are not things to investigate when we do have good evidence now that these fights are taking place. They will be investigated and the Minister has done the right thing. But to stand up here and say that all private prisons are about privatising that they are not competitive in the market and that the Government should get rid of them—that is a philosophical point of view and that is just not supported by the evidence. I maintain that Mt Eden prison run by Serco has been assessed under the same criteria that every other State-run prison is assessed by as the best-performing prison. I think that we should be biding our time and waiting for the outcome of the Minister’s review. Then is the time to discuss whether you want to make any changes and what changes should be made. Thank you.The debate having concluded the motion lapsed.