Cullen Michael: Financial Review Debate — In Committee 
Cullen Michael: Financial Review Debate — In Committee 
[Volume:637;Page:7902] 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 Can I try to explain to the member because he really should not listen to the Brethren when it comes to fiscal policy. They are not good guides to fiscal policy. Even if they do wander into his electorate office by mistake they are obviously not intending to discuss anything that might impact upon National Party funding. Let me try to explain to him what the measure of fiscal impulse is. It is not a measure of whether policy is tight or loose. 
Hon Bill English 
: Looser. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: That is right—looser. So basically if the nuts are completely tightened up and they are untightened very slightly Mr English would argue that they are loose nuts. Maybe the National Party does have a lot of loose nuts wandering around but the fact is that in the Labour Party the nuts are still pretty tight I have to say. Indeed can I quote to him no better source than his co-leader Mr Key who says the Government has been running such huge surpluses— 
Hon Bill English 
: That’s right. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: “That’s right” he says. That is the problem with Mr English. He does not listen even to his own interjections from one second to the next. He says: “Yes the Government has been running huge surpluses.” and he says that the Government should not have been running such huge surpluses. That is what Mr Key says. 
Hon Bill English 
: No. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: No he does not say that? Well Mr Key has been saying that the Government should not run such huge surpluses. Mr English is saying that it should run such huge surpluses. I could try to tell him about his policy but that would be a very short speech indeed. I am going to concentrate on the contradictions in the various statements because National does not have a policy. Its members went through a whole  
Agenda 
 television programme saying: “We don’t have a policy on that yet and we probably won’t before the election. But never mind we’ll tell you sooner or later what it may be.” The smiling assassin the “Muesli Bar Kid” is making sure there is no actual substance in the muesli bar that comes out. 
So the member does not understand that we are still running a cash surplus probably this year. That means we are funding all our investment spending out of current revenue. That is not a loose fiscal policy. The member does not expect us to say that we are going to be running surpluses of 7 percent of GDP every year. Is that what National said? That is not what National said at the last election. At the last election it said that it could continue to increase spending in all the core areas and have by year 3 $4 billion a year of tax cuts. Mr Key said very clearly that fiscal policy was too tight and should be loosened. So where has the great growth come? The biggest proportionate growth is in spending on roads and public transport. It has gone up 52 percent in the last 3 years. Mr English would tell us— 
Hon Bill English 
: That’s right. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: “That’s right” he says. Which road would he not have built? Which bus would he not have run? Which train carriage would he not have helped the Government to purchase? That is what he has to answer. And then we have had a 21 percent increase in Vote Health and a lot of that has been in primary health care. There are cheaper doctors’ visits and cheaper pharmaceuticals. 
Who would Mr English charge more to go to the doctor? Who would he charge more to get a pharmaceutical? His health spokesperson tells us that we should fund every drug that every pharmaceutical company thinks might do somebody any good and can drum up an interest group to come and march on Parliament about. That is what Mr Ryall has said. Every time any health group has gone on strike Mr Ryall has said that the Minister of Health should step in and make sure the district health boards give away and grant them whatever they asked for in the first place in terms of a wage increase. 
So although Mr English is playing with his nuts and trying to tighten them all his colleagues have got the nuts completely off the thread at this point and they are running around on the floor of the Chamber being chased by his colleagues all over the show. The reality is that we are running a tight fiscal policy and yes it is more expansionary than it was last year— 
Hon Bill English 
: Aha! 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Well we were. Mr Key said that we were taking $11 billion more tax than we should. Does that mean we were running a loose fiscal policy? 
Hon Bill English 
: You are pushing interest rates up. 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Oh we are pushing interest rates up by still running a tight fiscal policy. That member says: “Yippee we shouldn’t do anything about that but just make sure interest rates go up.” He said that Dr Bollard had failed to use the mechanism of pushing interest rates up. Then when Dr Bollard did put interest rates up Mr English said: “Oh that shouldn’t have been done.” 
That is the wonderful thing about being close to people like the Exclusive Brethren. One is surely going to be saved whatever one does or whatever one says.