Little AndrewREFERENDUMS FRAMEWORK BILLSecond ReadingHon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Justice): I move That the Referendums Framework Bill be now read a second time. As the House is aware the Government has committed to holding a referendum on legalising the personal use of recreational cannabis at the next general election in 2020. And of course now as a result of last week's work of this House a second referendum to determine whether the End of Life Choice Act as it now will be will come into force will also be held at this time. Can I begin by thanking members of the Justice Committee for their consideration of the bill. This bill is really a measure to facilitate what we knew was going to be at least one referendum for next year—we knew that another was in the offing; that has now been confirmed—but it was never intended that this would be a permanent framework for the conduct of referendums whether in conjunction with general elections or otherwise. We already have some legislation that covers referendums conducted outside the course of a general election but it was interesting seeing many of the submissions coming forward; people were saying actually we need or we should have a permanent framework for the conduct of referendums. So I would be very keen to see the development with the benefit of a bit more time available to us and with a good focused talented Justice Committee—which 90 percent of the members are at the moment—actually doing that work to develop a very robust enduring framework for the conduct of referendums. The reality is that many referendums are conducted at the same time as general elections. You would expect there to be a comparability and a similarity of rules and guidelines applying and that's what we want to achieve. It's certainly what we're trying to achieve with the Referendums Framework Bill as it has been reported back to the House. Ensuring the smooth and efficient conduct of all electoral events in 2020 is critical. It does mean that the Electoral Commission does need to have time to do that—that we manage this in a way that means they get the maximum time to get those things together. There's invariably because we're adding more things for next year's general election as well as these referendums always the budget considerations as well. All that has to be coordinated and brought together so that by the time we get to next year's general election everything is in place—the resources are in place the Electoral Commission has done the planning and the preparation and things will run as smoothly as they possibly can. So that is the reason why this bill was introduced: to give some certainty that puts in place a single set of rules to govern the conduct of both the referendums being held alongside the general election and it ensures that the same rules apply both to the general election and to the referendums as far as possible. And as I say it was interesting to see many submitters saying look it would be great if this was a permanent feature of our electoral makeup. I might say just by way of foreshadowing I think really for this whole House that the advice I've had in relation to a lot of electoral matters is that our current Electoral Act 1993 was really the 1956 Act with MMP added and that what is actually needed is a ground-up review engaging all parties in the House and all other stakeholders outside it in our electoral law framework to make sure that we have something that's fit for the 21st century. I can foreshadow that if I'm in a position to do so after next year's general election I would like to see that particular project being put in place. I'm told by the electoral authorities that it would be a piece of work that would probably take two parliamentary terms. So it would be something that every party would have to sign up to but I think there would be some value in that as we try to build enduring frameworks for these important constitutional parts of our democracy and our parliamentary system. The bill draws on the foundations of our electoral law and it doesn't create nor is specific to any particular referendum. It is simply about facilitating whatever referendums there are going to be. We now have one confirmed because of the passage of law in this Parliament—that's the End of Life Choice Act providing for a referendum. That Act comes into force only if there is a successful vote at a referendum at the next general election. The question for that referendum has been determined in that piece of legislation but this is a generic bill; it focuses on the mechanics of the referendum and largely reproduces the same legislative framework that applies to the conduct of the general election. It enables the Electoral Commission to conduct referendums using the same voting places and electoral staff as for the election and it provides for the counting of referendum votes and the release of the results either with or following the release of the general election results. The indications are that on election night in 2020 the referendum votes are unlikely to be counted that night. They'll be counted later and the results released later. That is all provided for in this bill. Of course the bill also provides that the offence and penalty provisions in the Electoral Act apply to similar offences committed in relation to referendums. Because the bill provides a generic framework it can be used to govern the conduct of both referendums at the next general election. This is achieved by including two mechanisms in the bill that allow it to link to other legislation or regulations which will be the trigger for the bill to be used for a particular referendum. We have a question set in the End of Life Choice Act and the bill provides for any other question to be set by Order in Council. Advertising will likely be a key influencer in the public debate informing voters and encouraging voter turnout for the referendums. Some of that will be managed by the Electoral Commission but a lot of that publicity will be from interest groups and stakeholder groups. The Ministry of Justice will provide neutral impartial information about the content of the End of Life Choice Act and indeed of the draft legalisation of cannabis bill. I know members opposite have raised a faux constitutional objection that the Public Service is answerable to the Government of the day as if the Government of the day are the political parties of the day. That constitutional objection is wrong. It is wrong-footed. It is founded on a conceit about political parties that the Public Service is responsible to the executive the Government of the day. We have a very strong culture in this country of a neutral Public Service. They discharge their duties and obligations regardless of who is in Government and they will continue to do so. I don't share the cynicism of some—well actually really one member opposite—in our Public Service. We are well served by a brilliant Public Service. I've never had to apologise for making unfortunate remarks about them unlike one member opposite. To strike an appropriate balance between freedom of expression and transparency the bill regulates referendum advertising in much the same way as the Electoral Act regulates election advertising. These rules will require promoters of referendum advertisements to place a promoter statement on every advertisement and to register if they intend to spend over $13200 on referendum advertising during the three-month period immediately prior to the referendum—so the regulated period. In addition registered promoters will also be required to submit a return of their expenses to the Electoral Commission if they spend over $100000 and there will be an overall limit on the amount that can be spent on referendum advertising of $330000. The bill also addresses some minor areas of difference from some rules applying to the election which reflect the nature of referendums. So for example there won't be as I said before a preliminary count of any referendum votes on election day or election night to avoid the delays getting the count of the general election out. Those referendum results will be released with or following the official results for the general election. So we will have to wait a few days or a couple of weeks after the date of the general election to know the results of the referendums. By supporting the Electoral Commission to proceed with certainty on the infrastructure and planning requirements that they have for the referendums in 2020 and providing robust rules for those seeking to influence others through referendum advertising this bill will help to ensure that the outcome of both referendums accurately represents the views of the New Zealand people. That's what we strive to achieve with the referendums: a well-informed well-debated couple of topics and an unequivocal answer and result from the electorate that means that we can proceed with confidence regardless of the outcome of either of the choices. If it's no then we know that; those issues are put to bed at least for the time being. If the answer is yes then we can proceed with certainty and confidence that that is the will of the electorate and the actions to implement will follow accordingly. So on that basis I commend this bill to the House.