Harawira Hone: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Harawira Hone: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:646;Page:15049] 
11.  
HONE HARAWIRA (Maori Party—Te Tai Tokerau) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: How many beneficiaries are there to the unclaimed moneys and other moneys currently being held by the Maori Trustee? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA (Minister of Maori Affairs) 
: 
 There are 126222 accounts held for beneficial owners. 
Hone Harawira 
: Is the Minister expecting a legal challenge from those beneficiaries whose money the Government is stealing to establish a development bank; if so will he also be recommending that legislation be passed to deny those beneficiaries the right to legal aid to challenge that debt— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would you please be seated Mr Harawira. You have been here long enough to know the rules. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Madam Speaker I refer you to I think the second clause of what the member said. It was clearly out of order. Parliament is contemplating legislation and to characterise it in the way that the member did is clearly unparliamentary. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member like to rephrase his question so that it is consistent with the Standing Orders. Thank you. 
Hone Harawira 
: No Madam Speaker I would rather not unless you insist that I do. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Yes I do insist that you do. 
Hone Harawira 
: Very well. Is the Minister expecting a legal challenge from those beneficiaries— 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. In what way was Mr Harawira’s question inconsistent with the Standing Orders? Given the comments made by the Deputy Prime Minister this afternoon about another member’s past involvements what he was up to and all the rest of it which for many of us seemed to be an imputation against that member’s motives what was so wrong with what Mr Harawira just said? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: As I have said to the member I am considering the general question and in the meantime I will be consistent with the rulings as of today. Would Mr Harawira please rephrase his question. 
Hon Dr Michael Cullen 
: In light of the previous point of order I seek leave to table an article from a  
Socialist Action 
 of 1975 written by Keith Locke and headed: “Cambodia liberated: victory for humanity” which describes the Khmer Rouge victory. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Hone Harawira your question please. [ 
Interruption 
] Well that is another issue. 
Hone Harawira 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Is it appropriate that members speak when sitting down while I am standing up to ask a question? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would you please just ask your question. 
Hone Harawira 
: Certainly. Is the Minister expecting a legal challenge from those beneficiaries whose money the Government is appropriating to establish a development bank; if so will he also be recommending that legislation be passed to deny those beneficiaries the right to legal aid to challenge that appropriation in the same way that his Labour Government appropriated the foreshore and seabed and then passed legislation to deny Maori the right to legal aid to challenge that appropriation? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: No and no. It is totally the opposite. It is about thinking into the future and making sure that fragmentation in the sense of ownership is about getting a platform for Maori when nobody else will do it. 
Dave Hereora 
: Has the Minister heard of any recent examples where owners of unclaimed moneys have been found? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: There are several. The Maori Trust Office received contact from a descendant of a deceased person whose name had been listed in  
Kokiri 
Paetae 
 magazine. A lot of these unclaimed dividends are sitting there and that person was able to claim the $4000 that was owed. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Why if the interest earned on a person’s money belongs to him or her— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Why doesn’t Paula use her own lines? 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Why does the member not be quiet? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member please just ask the question. 
Hon Tau Henare 
: Why if the interest earned on a person’s money belongs to him or her is the Minister happy to claim that the $35 million in interest and dividends earned from beneficiaries—unclaimed moneys—does not belong to those beneficiaries; and why does he think he can take it without asking for their permission? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: The unclaimed moneys as at 29 February 2008 was $8579775. The general purposes fund is made up of money from the business activities of the Maori Trustee. The sources of funding for the general purposes fund are fees and commissions returns on investments and the interest differential between what is earned on common fund investments and what can legally be paid to beneficial owners of those investments. This is a way of using it—whereas it cannot be used at the moment—to help all Maori. 
Hone Harawira 
: Can the Minister please explain to all of those beneficiaries who are listening to this broadcast why given the demand by the Government that iwi contact all of their tribal members to have them endorse Treaty settlement packages he does not have to contact any of the beneficiaries before appropriating $35 million of their money? 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: Every owner registered was sent a notice of this activity. There were several consultation hui around the country. Maori at those hui were generally very supportive of this move. 
Hone Harawira 
: Can the Minister please explain why if the intention of the Maori Trustee and Maori Development Amendment Bill is to make the Maori Trustee more independent from the Government he is putting forward legislation so that he can appropriate $35 million of the Maori Trustee’s money and put it into an organisation that he is setting up with a board of directors that he will choose and operating according to a purpose that he has already predetermined; and can he please explain to the House why he is doing all of this in election year without consultation with those beneficiaries whose money he is appropriating? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: There are several questions there. 
Hon PAREKURA HOROMIA 
: There has been consultation over this matter over a period of time. I am amazed at that member’s glass ball that he looks into—it seems to be fogged up. Let us be quite clear about this: the audit of the accounts of the Maori Trustee showed nearly $39 million. No money held in trust for beneficiaries including unclaimed moneys will be transferred to the new entity. What does the member want? Does he want the money to sit there not be used not be transparent and not benefit Maori so that they can get on with their lives and do something for themselves with their own money?