O'Connor DamienHon DAMIEN O'CONNOR (Minister of Agriculture): Thank you. It's good that the member David Bennett sat down so I could answer the questions. Look it's good that he also acknowledges the significant role that iwi play across agriculture. It hasn't been recognised as it should be and I have to say it's a pleasure to see the development across many iwi Māori entities in agriculture. And not one of them called for a change in our position on this.When I was farming—and it might be different for Mr Bennett—but if you have an in-calf heifer and you don't send it away that doesn't mean to say the value of that animal disappears. Indeed you have a heifer that will produce a calf that has value in itself. You then can actually milk it if you want or in fact actually there are some that produce beef that will say there's a really good return on beef heifers.Can I just say that the equation that stopping this trade ends the value of the animals in New Zealand is completely false. So I—Hon David Bennett: We never said that. We said lower value". Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: Maybe the member should just take a different—Hon David Bennett: Point of order Mr Chair. Both myself and my colleague never said it ended the value; we said it has a lower value and the Minister needs to answer—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Mr Bennett that is not a point of order. That is a debating point. [Interruption] No sit down please Mr Bennett.Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: Can I just point to the fact that—and I think Mr Cameron's actually got his figures wrong. I think he underestimates the premium that many farmers were getting—underestimates them because I think my brother was certainly selling animals for about twice their value for the export market and so I accept that there would be less money available to those farmers who might have sold directly to those markets. It does not mean there's less money for New Zealand and I explained that biological process to Mr Bennett.Can I just go through a couple of other points. Mr Mooney asked—Hon David Bennett: Did you ask the Prime Minister?Hon DAMIEN O'CONNOR: Oh did I ask the Prime Minister? I asked her "Can you continue to support my view that we should end this trade because that will protect our reputation?" That's the discussion I had and I'm happy to say that I led that on the basis of all the information the discussions and the reading that I've done in this area.Can I just go back to a couple of points made by members over there. Nicola Grigg says that you know a lot of the boats have been substandard. Indeed that has been the case and if you look across the history of the trade there was a boat from Chile having to refuel in Fiji that was locked out of the port because Fijians didn't think that this trade was ethical. A number of people across the globe are concerned about what has been happening and what is still happening which is why we're trying to stay ahead of that. We can still assist the people we had as customers through genetic transfer through embryos through sperm transfer and we can have air travel for very high-value animals. This does not stop us assisting in the genetic improvement of animals around the world. We simply just will not be doing it through transport on boats.Can I say finally: look Mr Mooney says you know we should just use the best operators. The problem is it's a subjective judgment on who they are and it gets really really tricky. If we end up with one dud operator as we did one tragic accident as we did then the reputation of this country is at stake. That's why we're moving on this."