Auchinvole Chris: Electronic Identity Verification Bill — In Committee 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Auchinvole Chris: Electronic Identity Verification Bill — In Committee 
[Sitting date: 13 November 2012. Volume:685;Page:6545. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
CHRIS AUCHINVOLE (National) 
: 
 It is as always a pleasure to debate these matters with Kris Faafoi whom we have just heard from. I am not sure what he had for dinner but I really feel he is arguing against himself and I think there are serious consequences to what is being suggested. On the one hand he is castigating the Government for having identified problems with some of the computer systems and saying that it is unforgivable it should never have happened there was insufficient testing and it must never be allowed to happen again but on the other hand he is suggesting seriously—because he is a serious person—that if a hacker goes in as long as they can say “Oh no it was for non-malicious reasons.” they should be forgiven and not prosecuted. I cannot follow the logic. If people breach security they breach security and for someone in this Committee to stand up and say that that is fine leaves me somewhat amazed. I am sure on reflection he would not expect the Minister to say: “Yes on the one hand it was dreadful that we had those security breaches but no as long as they can say it was without malice and it was just to highlight a problem that’s OK.” 
I had the experience of losing my company identification to a well-established company that handled information bank details and everything else. It sold its files. It sold its files to American interests and American interests then had the liberty to phone you up and ask you about your business. They already knew all about it. They had everything there. “We’ve got your file right on our desk. We feel that you should buy these shares.” and so on and so forth. There was no protection against that company doing that. There was no protection. 
I would like to reassure the Committee in the light of Kris Faafoi’s statements that the Government Administration Committee certainly considered this bill the Electronic Identity Verification Bill very very seriously. Indeed the officials went away and did remedial work—extra work extra research. I think they worked extremely diligently and I do not doubt that the chair of the committee who is sitting beside Kris Faafoi will bear that out. They worked very very hard and we took this very seriously. I would hate for anyone to think that this committee was slipshod in its processes because we were not. 
Let us have a look. We talked about the level of fines. Let us just see what they are what we have lifted them to. It was previously imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or a fine not exceeding $250000. The prison term continues not to exceed 10 years and the fine continues not to exceed $250000—or both—but if an organisation gets involved then it is a fine not exceeding a million smackers. That starts to erode the profits they might receive from selling information that they could gain. So it becomes quite a risky operation. But I would not be at all surprised because this is valuable information if an organisation a shonky one was prepared to give it a go—have a go—and see whether it works. If it does fine. Pocket the profits. If it does not they may say that they were doing it for non-malicious purposes to show there was a breach in the system. Under Kris Faafoi they are forgiven because they have shown the Government there was an error. Sorry it does not wash. I feel that we should distance ourselves from that sort of peculiar slipshod logic.