Woods MeganHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour—Wigram): Well this certainly is an interesting debate and I'm very much looking forward to the committee stage where we get to ask the Minister some very detailed questions because there are a lot of questions that we have on this side of the House. But what we do know is that this is yet another piece of legislation that this Government is putting up which is about dragging New Zealand backwards.Now I've heard speakers in this debate ask why we need this. Well I think it shows something when members on the Government benches are asking why we need it. So let's go back to the very basics. New Zealand has signed up to something called a nationally determined contribution (NDC) in terms of our climate change targets. This is something that was agreed by the John Key Government. In order to reach that NDC when we came into Government we needed to put together a plan because there was no plan of how to reach our nationally determined contribution. What that resulted in was multi-partisan agreement on an approach to climate change which was that we would have carbon budgets and that we would have emission reduction plans sector by sector that would show what work that sector had to do to reach New Zealand's targets.Now transport has some work to do. Transport is responsible for a large number of emissions and therefore there are a number of emissions reductions that are needed. Light vehicles are a critical part of the contributions to our vehicle emissions. In order to do that people either need to stop travelling in cars and mode shift or they need to switch the kind of cars they are driving and that is to electric cars. In order to do that and to get the kind of uptake that is required—and let's be very clear because Madam Speaker this is a debate about specifics and I am yet to hear a member on the Government benches venture into the realm of specifics and tell us what they are going to do to substitute in the emissions reduction plan (ERP). There is a legislative requirement to do that Madam Speaker.The ERP sets out the target to reduce transport emissions by 41 percent from 2019 levels by 2035. And the ERP also sets a further target to increase zero-emission vehicles to 30 percent of the light fleet by 2035. Now if there is not to be a Clean Car Discount how are we going to achieve that? We have heard from Government members that the emissions trading scheme (ETS) will do that. I am looking forward to contributions that tell us at what price does the ETS have to be to drive the behavioural change that will cause the switch. Because every piece of research that has been produced has said that it currently is not enough. So I want to know from members opposite: what will the ETS price be that will be required to drive that behavioural change? It hasn't happened in any other jurisdiction. We have our independent Climate Change Commission and the report released just this week tells us that there needs to be supplementary measures to the ETS in order to drive the behavioural change. They're very clear on that. So that is something that I am looking forward to us getting into the nitty-gritty and the detail. I'm sure the Minister will come armed with the details because of course this is a Minister that thinks he doesn't have to release the regulatory impact statement (RIS) before the legislation is passed. He's told New Zealanders they can request it under the Official Information Act and read it after the legislation is passed. So I'm sure he's got the details because a Minister that is that confident must be all over every detail of the policy and we'll see that when it comes to committee stage.Then the other argument we've had is We'll let the ETS do it." So I'm looking forward to knowing the modelled pricing of the ETS that will be required for that. He's telling us "We'll build it and they will come." that there will be a charging infrastructure and this is part of the National Party commitments. There's only one thing: this is a throuple and in the coalition agreement with the ACT Party—and I read—they poured some cold water on it. They haven't said they can just get on with the roll-out of the 10000 public electric vehicle (EV) chargers by 2030 that the National Party promised in their manifesto commitment. They're saying: show us the business case—show us the business case. So I look forward to the Minister telling us when he's in the chair what the time line is how many there'll be are they AC chargers are they DC chargers where will they be—all this kind of detail. Because if this is the kind of policy we are relying on to get the kinds of upticks that I have talked about in my speech we're going to need to see some detail.Then we have heard the crocodile tears of the Government benches over the equity considerations of this policy. The problem is those members need to go and look at some detail. And again I point those members to the very fine document released by the independent Climate Change Commission this week on advice on their second emissions budget that reports on the equity provisions of this policy. Because that was something that we thought about as a Government when we implemented it and is the very reason that we made the Clean Car Discount apply to New Zealand new second-hand vehicles. I know and I do represent an electorate—I represent an electorate of people who would never dream usually of buying a brand new car. They buy their cars second-hand and it is the very reason that we included New Zealand new second-hand electric vehicles within this.Let's put some facts into this debate and I'm going to read you what the Climate Change Commission says around the equity provisions of this. It says "The second emissions budget presents opportunities for the Government to ensure more equitable access to EVs. Second-hand vehicles have been a major portion of imported vehicles accounting for approximately 40 percent of light vehicles registered. For many these vehicles are more affordable than new vehicles and have provided a critical means of transport. During the second emissions budget supply of second-hand EVs may be constrained" and goes on to say that more work needs to be done.I take you also to the work that was done on the previous policy when we looked about for what we were going to do to amend the policy. It said: "While there is evidence that wealthier New Zealanders are more likely to adopt EVs—and by implication benefit from the Clean Car Discount—purchase data suggests that 'average New Zealanders' are likely to have benefited most. To date markedly more buyers of used-imports received rebates (56.2 percent) than buyers of new vehicles (38.5 percent). At the same time fewer buyers of used-imports paid charges (14.7 percent) than buyers of new vehicles (39.7 percent)." Unfortunately for the members on the Government benches their claims to finally be standing up for working New Zealanders despite cutting employment as a Reserve Bank consideration and removing fair pay agreements yesterday fall on deaf ears when you look at the evidence when you see how the discount has been applied who's been benefiting from it and who has been paying it.So I think it is time given that we've got a Government that is so confident in itself that it's passing this under urgency—no select committee process and a Minister who has the RIS locked in the safe in his office rather than releasing it to the people of New Zealand—that we get down to some details on this because details matter. And I look forward to the Government being able to answer the plethora of questions that we will put to them in the committee stage because listening to this debate has only led me to write down more and more questions. We have a Government that is taking New Zealand backwards; it is done for no other reason than "You guys did it therefore we want to reverse it."Look around the world—to those on the Government benches—and you will see conservative Governments around the world have implemented similar schemes. This is not something that should be about the political divide. This should be about how we as a nation meet our commitments and our targets to reduce our climate emissions. I want to see what the Government is going to do to meet that. They are scrapping—and make no mistake about it—one of the most successful schemes we have had to reduce our domestic emissions and they are signing New Zealand up to pay other countries to decarbonise rather than backing New Zealanders."