Jones Shane: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Jones Shane: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:661;Page:9534] 
6. 
Hon SHANE JONES (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: Does he stand by his statement “Across many steps the Maori voice is heard by the Government and is included in and informs decision making. The Minister believes that Maori need to be participants in decision making not the recipients of it.”? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Leader of the House) 
on behalf of the  
Minister of Maori Affairs 
: Yes. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Got the “Brown” bit right anyway. Is the fact that the Associate Minister of Corrections who has delegated— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: That comment is not necessary. If we want some order in the House we will reserve those things for later. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Is the fact that the Associate Minister of Corrections who has delegated responsibility for addressing Maori overrepresentation in the criminal justice system did not receive any information about the amended “three strikes” policy prior to or following its announcement an example of Maori being participants in or recipients of decision making? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: As the Minister of Corrections informed the House earlier the Minister of Maori Affairs has his own discussions with the Department of Corrections on these matters. Therefore no flow of paper was necessary. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: How much did the Maori voice inform the Government’s decision to shut down Te Hurihanga youth offending programme considering that the Associate Minister of Corrections who has responsibility for addressing Maori overrepresentation in the criminal justice system did not receive a single paper briefing or report on the matter? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Unlike the Labour Party and the previous Labour Government the National-led Government— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: I know what the member is going to say. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Do I need to say it? Shall I just say “ibid”? 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: See whether I am right. That was a straightforward question from the member and there is no need to bring political inference into it or to make a political statement in your opening comments. 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Although I accept that and I think it is important it is also reasonable that a Minister answering a question deals with what might be a misconception by the person asking the question. Otherwise the person asking the question can corner a Minister into answering a question according to his or her own limited knowledge. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: These are debating points and I ask the Minister to respond in a manner that is fitting to the occasion. 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: In the case that the member mentions there was conversation with relevant iwi. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Does he consider that the Maori voice is being heard through his role as Associate Minister of Education with responsibility for all matters relating to kaupapa Maori education and work relating to wananga considering that he claimed he was not consulted on national standards or on the Government’s plans to scrap some tertiary courses and cut funding for some tertiary institutions? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: This matter has been dealt with in the House before and cleared up by the Minister of Maori Affairs. I invite the Hon Shane Jones to look back through  
Hansard 
 to get the clarification he seeks today. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Given that these policies will have a disastrous effect on the overrepresentation of Maori in our prisons— 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I do not want to be overly pedantic but I think it is time that we started to require members to start questions with a question word not the sort of emotive claptrap we just heard from the Hon Shane Jones. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Thank you. The member knows he must start with a question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I would like to refer you to Speaker’s rulings by Speaker the Hon Dr Smith in this Parliament in which he has indicated that he is reverting to the practice of before the period of Mr Speaker Hunt. The word “given” has been allowed by him as has been the practice in this House for all but about 5 years. 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: It is true that Speaker Lockwood Smith has allowed some questions to begin with the word “given” but generally it refers to something that has been said earlier not to the sort of highly emotive political statement that Mr Jones just made. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Thank you for that. Questions should not contain arguments or inferences that might cause offence. I ask the member to ask the question again. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: How can the Minister of Maori Affairs believe that he will remain effective given the effect of these policies on the overrepresentation of Maori in our prisons—with 50 percent of our prison population being Maori males—and on student underachievement; and given that he was not consulted by the Government on any of these policies is this not a case of “three strikes and you’re out”? 
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE 
: Firstly the door to the Cabinet room is always open to the Minister of Maori Affairs. He frequently attends Cabinet meetings on matters that are of concern to him and that will be a matter of public record. Secondly although those statistics for young Maori and indeed Maori in prisons are not acceptable that has been a circumstance that existed and was exacerbated through the 9 years that that member supported a Government in this country that did nothing. When it comes to Maori educational attainment of course the Minister wants to see education at a higher level of attainment by Maori and he believes that his arrangements with the National-led Government will produce that result. 
Hon Shane Jones 
: I seek leave to table an Official Information Act response from Dr Pita Sharples confirming that he did not receive or produce any information as the Associate Minister of Corrections in relation to Te Hurihanga youth-offending programme. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: Is this a letter from Dr Sharples? 
Hon Shane Jones 
: Yes. 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: To whom? Is this in the public domain? 
Hon Shane Jones 
: It is an Official Information Act request. 
Hon Judith Collins 
: Can I just clarify a matter raised by that member. The Department of Corrections does not have responsibility for youth justice so I just wonder whether— 
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER 
: No we are getting into arguments here that are not necessary. Because this document was released under the Official Information Act leave can be sought for that. Leave can be sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.