Ngobi Terisa; Dean JacquiTERISA NGOBI (Labour—Ōtaki): Kia ora Madam Speaker and can I just say it is a privilege and honour to be able to take a call on the Social Security (Subsequent Child Policy Removal) Amendment Bill. I also want to mimic the words of some of my colleagues just to thank the Hon Carmel Sepuloni and her office for looking at not only this punitive piece of policy but actually the whole of the welfare system as it is at the moment. Currently as we've heard if you have another child while you're on benefit and that child turns only one year old—still in nappies some still breastfeeding. But if that child turns one year old and they're your subsequent child you are then forced to undertake part-time or full-time work obligations. This essentially means that what they're saying is The child doesn't matter. It is around getting you off benefit." It is around putting the work obligations first and not the child or that one-year-old. Working at Work and Income during the welfare reforms—I was there in 2012 when the National Government brought in the welfare reforms—this along with a whole suite of punitive legislation was sad to see. I saw firsthand the damage it did to some of our communities and most of all to our sole parents and our tamariki. It was confusing to sole parents to go from one minute encouraging you supporting your child to "That's it one year old—whip them out the door and you go to work." Also you worried about that rushing to make sure that you get to work all the while wondering about your baby "Are they OK? Are they coping without me?" because let's remember they're one year old—they're just a baby. You're talking about a one-year-old. Like I said some of them are still breastfeeding so you've got to wean them off your breast. That takes time. I've got three children; I know what that looks like. It takes time to wean them off your breast and let's also mention the fact that they encourage breastfeeding. They say that's the best thing for your child but we're saying "That's fine until that child is one then it no longer matters—just get them out the door and get you off benefit." We are supposed to be a supportive Government coming from a strengths-based place and this as it currently stands is not strengths-based. A sole parent like I said being forced to wean their baby off breastfeeding to quickly find day care to organise two-plus children—one of them again is only one year old—dropping them off to day care while you go to work and all the while while you're at work trying to focus on your mahi and not be worried about "How's my pēpi doing? Are they being looked after OK? Do they need a kai?" because māmās know best right? So that's another worry. Not only are you having to rush and do that but how productive are you really while you're going out there to work? I say that that is not support. That is not a strengths-based approach. That is not putting the child first eh—the child at the centre. I remember when those welfare reforms came out they were all about it and actually it's absolutely the opposite. This is not about looking after māmā and pēpi and tamariki's wellbeing. This is not about supporting them into work actually and it's not sustainable. Rather this is going to ensure that those māmās stay and remain on benefit. It's harmful to the sole parent and to the children but ultimately to our society as a whole. We deal with the aftermath of what that looks like for those māmās and those pēpis and that whānau. The amendments in this bill will lead to better outcomes for māmā and pēpi and again our society as a whole. Sole parents can use the time that they need to go out there undertake any employment training further tertiary—really proud again that this Government is bringing training incentive allowances back. They've got options to look at what they want to do to get into a job that they're going to want to wake up every day and work towards. That is going to ensure sustainability—if you get up and you go to a job that you've worked towards or you know. That's going to show sustainability. That breaks some of the intergenerational benefit—whānau staying on benefit. That is the good role model to your child: taking that time needed rather than being rushed and actually kind of bullied into getting off the benefit and not worrying about the time it needs to take to have a relationship with your baby and also having that time to find meaningful employment and longevity in employment.I've heard about the thousand days and I've been to many Nathan Mikaere-Wallis workshops—a leading child professional—and many other professionals in my social services career. I can tell you that along with the thousand days they also talk about the time needed for māmās and pāpās to have their relationship and build that time with their babies. That is critical that is key and that is what makes a difference to tamariki and their families growing up. That is going to make all the difference when they have a trusting relationship with their parent and to be able to say "You've done that at one year old. Now out the door off you go and find work." is not enough time for a trusting relationship. We know that when they do have that time this leads to great outcomes as our tamariki grow knowing that they have someone at home that's got their back. While their mum still has their back when they have to go into work after they're one-year-old it's not the same. That's not the same amount of time. I feel like this again is a punitive approach as it currently stands and I worry about how at this moment māmās are worried and that then leads to their babies being worried eh? We know our babies feel what we feel so when those mothers feel pressured they feel rushed they feel forced into taking up jobs just in case their benefit gets cut or halved or sanctioned and so they have to take whatever comes regardless of how hard it might be to get your kids there and to organise yourself as a solo parent that's worrying in itself and actually again that is not what we are about as a society. That's not what New Zealanders do. We care about ourselves we care about each other we care about our māmās our pēpis and our pāpās and that's how it should be. So this amendment to this legislation does that. I'm really proud of this Government for recognising this current sanction needs to be changed. Currently the biggest number of people affected by the current punitive policy are Māori and women—no surprise there right? Already our most vulnerable whānau and we're already putting more pressure on them. Amending this puts the child back at the centre. It puts the child back in the focus of where we should be looking especially given what this Government's trying to work towards which is making sure that everybody is supported that everybody gets a good chance at life and that everybody feels that they have a place to stand. This change to this legislation ensures a strengths-based mana-enhancing change to the policy for those that are coming in on the system. I know again from working at Work and Income both when the welfare reforms came in and then more recently I saw the people I served that walked through those doors. For the most part when they walked through those doors they were at the lowest parts of their lives. That was their last resort. Nobody goes in wanting to take Government financial assistance. You know I see them. Sometimes they feel demoralised. They feel ashamed for having to ask for financial assistance. Again they're at their wits' end. They've tried everything else and they have to take assistance for their babies and for their whānau. We shouldn't be treating people at the lowest points of their lives negatively or more punitively. We should be again supporting them to see a positive way forward. When you treat people like that that makes them want to undertake those great opportunities of work-based training to get off benefit and actually when they do take those jobs they're able to sustain longevity in terms of their job careers. Again like I said it's changing for some of them the ongoing cycle of intergenerational benefit and they're also being fantastic role models to their babies and contributing to society and I'm sure that's what we all want. So I believe the changes to the Social Security Act are going to make a massive difference in terms of the mana for our māmās and pēpis. Kia ora. ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Hon Jacqui Dean): A five-minute call—Simon Watts."