Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Norman Russel: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 13 November 2012. Volume:685;Page:6495. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
6. 
Dr RUSSEL NORMAN (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment 
: Was the Prime Minister correct when he said on 12 October 2012 that “our unemployment rate’s not rising”; if so why? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister for Tertiary Education Skills and Employment) 
: 
 Yes; because the best advice the Prime Minister had at that time from Treasury backed up by most private sector economists was that the unemployment rate was likely to decrease. That was the basis on which he made that comment. Other statistics also back up his comment particularly the number of people on unemployment benefits which has dropped from 55700 to 50400 over the year to September. That is a number of around 5300. It is also interesting to note that despite the fact the population of New Zealand has grown between 1999 and now from 3.8 million to 4.4 million the number of people on the unemployment benefit is around 100000 fewer than in 1999 despite apparently having an unemployment rate that is the same according to the household labour force survey. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Given that Statistics New Zealand shows that unemployment has risen in every quarter since December 2011 is it not simply a matter of fact that the Prime Minister was incorrect when he said that the unemployment rate is not rising because in fact it was rising and it has continued to rise? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: No because although it has risen in the household labour force survey it has in fact dropped in what is a measure that is very important to New Zealand and that is the number of people on the unemployment benefit which is a measure of those people who need the support of the State because they are unemployed. The point I would make to the member is that over the last year it has dropped by around 5300 and it is much much lower than it was at the time of similar household labour force survey figures back in 1999—around 100000. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I seek leave to table a paper—[ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! This is a point of order. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: It is not like people going to Australia. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! The member should not do that. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I seek leave to table a paper from the Parliamentary Library showing that unemployment has risen for four consecutive quarters. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no— 
Hon Anne Tolley 
: What is the document? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The document is from the Parliamentary Library—a document recording unemployment figures. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: In light of the fact that this Government is now overseeing the highest unemployment that we have seen this century does he now concede that the Government’s economic policies have failed to produce lower unemployment in New Zealand? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: No. I would refer the member to my previous answer to both the primary question and the supplementary question in relation to unemployment benefits. But I also point out to the member that again I think he is in danger of ignoring what has been going on in the wider world in relation to two matters in particular. First is the global financial crisis which is ongoing and I note this week there have been further issues in Europe in terms of a revision down of growth forecasts and of course the US fiscal cliff issue is continuing and we do actually live in the world. Also there is the other challenge which of course has been the Christchurch earthquake. Now that the rebuild is building up we are seeing a drop in unemployment in Christchurch but actually it has been difficult for New Zealand to grow over that period because of the challenges of its second-largest city being very dramatically affected by the earthquakes. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Looking at the relative position of New Zealand in relation to the rest of the OECD is it not a sign of economic failure by this Government when unemployment has grown more than one and a half times faster in New Zealand compared with the average of the OECD over the last 4 years? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: No. I mean I am sure the member is going to hold the graph in as many ways as he can but the reality is New Zealand has actually an unemployment rate lower than the average across the OECD. It is better than that of many countries we compare ourselves with: for example the United States; for example the UK; and for example countries like Denmark and Poland and France and Hungary and Italy. It is interesting that the member raises the issue of Australia. Because we in New Zealand have a much higher participation rate than Australia even though we have a higher unemployment rate we actually have a higher employment rate than Australia as well—about 2 percent higher in New Zealand than in Australia. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: 1 hour a week! 1 hour a week. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Stop making it up Mr Mallard. We actually have a higher employment rate than Australia. Read it and weep Trevor. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I seek leave to table a paper prepared by the Parliamentary Library showing that New Zealand’s unemployment has grown at one and a half times the OECD average over the last 4 years. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 









Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: What analysis has he done as to why his economic plan has resulted in New Zealand now having one of the fastest-growing rates of unemployment in the OECD according to the relative statistics produced by the OECD? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I think the member has obviously not listened to my previous answers. Let me just re-cover them for him. Firstly it is not apparent that that is necessarily the case particularly because of the declining number of people on the unemployment benefit in New Zealand which includes a drop of around 5000 over the last 12 months. 
Jacinda Ardern 
: It has doubled. It has doubled. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: It has dropped over the last 12 months. You can keep saying that as often as you like but it has dropped. It is also because New Zealand has been working through—as the rest of the world has—the challenges of the global financial crisis and in addition to that in the case of this country the Canterbury earthquakes. And New Zealanders actually understand those challenges. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: As one of the chief authors of National’s now failed economic plan what changes is he recommending to that plan in light of the fact that we now have record unemployment figures—the highest this century—and that our unemployment is growing faster than the OECD average? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: The member will be pleased to note there will be no changes but we will be working even harder on opportunities to remove the barriers and delays for companies seeking to invest and grow jobs. There is a range of areas where the member could lend his moral support: oil and gas exploration the expansion of intensive agriculture the development of aquaculture supporting our film industry encouraging foreign investment and progressing an International Convention Centre in Auckland. These are all things the Greens oppose and all things that particularly in relation to the International Convention Centre they have sought to stop which is the reason right now for 1000 fewer jobs in this country than there would have been at this time. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: Does he accept that his Government’s policy of backing winners of the “dig it drill it mine it” variety has now failed in the light of historically high unemployment figures after 4 years of Government and is it not time to reconsider the green economic opportunities like those identified by the group of leading New Zealand business people in the Pure Advantage group? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: This Government is guilty only of backing people who are prepared to invest their own money and not the printed money variety that the Greens advocate which would send this country down the toilet. 
Dr Russel Norman 
: I seek leave to table the report from the Pure Advantage group called  
New Zealand’s Position in the Green Race 
 from May 2012. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection.