Bayly AndrewANDREW BAYLY (National—Hunua): Thank you Mr Chair. It is nice to be speaking on the Venture Capital Fund Bill. Gee don't we need something like this? When you think about what's happening in the economy we've got a GDP of 2.1 percent at the moment compared to 3.2 percent a year ago. So measures like this are desperately needed in New Zealand to try and stimulate this economy and try and help those innovative New Zealanders to get under way to actually put some money and their time at risk and actually go and do something and try and create more value and more jobs for New Zealanders. So on that basis we largely do support this bill. Of course the Finance and Expenditure Committee has considered a number of these aspects. I think the first one in clause 24 expanded the role or the purpose of the Venture Capital Fund to make sure that there is an element of making sure that it's a self-sustaining market where not only does the Government have to put up money—which is what this bill enables—but it also tries to involve the private sector so we get a much more cohesive and viable and sustainable venture capital industry in New Zealand. I think having that as a purpose is very very important. There are a couple of areas that we had a lot of debate on and I think one of the areas that we're a little bit concerned about is reflected in clause 32 and it's also reflected in clause 56. This is where ministerial oversight of this entity which is now going to be run obviously through the Superannuation Fund—one clause is giving the Minister power to direct the Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation to report on matters in its annual report. Specifically starting to interpose ministerial right over the way that the guardians actually operate and report is something that we think we have some concerns about. That's further provided for in clause 56(1)(h) where the Minister can now direct the guardians to give regard to the Government's commitment to a more inclusive economy. So here we are we're talking about the cutting edge of creating new businesses the time when they're most risky—this is dealing with the valley of death as it's termed in investment circles—and we've got a Minister being able to now interpose some additional requirements on it and particularly have regard for wider economic considerations. This I think is a mistake. We need to support this industry. We need to be razor-sharp in our focus and I think all this is doing is providing a whole lot of gobbledegook for what should otherwise be a very clear purpose which is to support these nascent companies to grow and be successful and create jobs as I spoke of before. The other element that we're very concerned about and we kept asking the officials about is that here is a fund being created of roughly $300 million and there is absolutely no purpose or measurement of results as to what this fund will achieve. Given that we're talking about a $300 million investment to actually have no target for return on investment for a venture capital fund is very very unusual. In fact I'm not sure that there are any funds around the world whether it's a private equity fund or whether it's a venture capital fund that will not have a targeted rate of return. I think this is another example of a Government not wanting to measure things. We've seen it in a whole host of other activities whether it's health targets where we've seen the degradation and removal of those types of targets or social outcomes. Here is another example of setting up and spending $300 million and not being prepared to put a measurement on what should be the target return from these. We've got issues like recycling of capital which is all very good but unless you have a financial measure as well as an outcome in terms of jobs etc. you will never know whether the $300 million that's been provided for in this bill is actually going to be successful and create the jobs that we want in the future. Personally I think that's a real mistake and it just highlights again the lack of commercial nous from the Government in terms of dealing with these types of investment products where they don't have much understanding at all. The question was put that the amendments set out on Supplementary Order Paper 416 in the name of the Hon David Parker be agreed to. Amendments agreed to. Parts 1 and 2 Schedules 1 and 2 and clauses 1 and 2 as amended agreed to. The committee divided the bill into the New Zealand Superannuation and Retirement Income Amendment Bill and the Venture Capital Fund Bill pursuant to Supplementary Order Paper 414. House resumed. The Chairperson reported the Venture Capital Fund Bill with amendment. Report adopted.