Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Mark Ron: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:611;Page:8188] 
3.  
RON MARK (NZ First) 
 to the  
Minister of Defence 
: Is he confident that the Army’s new light armoured vehicles have the capability to carry out defence operations in the South Pacific? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Acting Minister of Defence) 
: 
 Yes and more important the Army is. 
Ron Mark 
: Why then are there no plans to deploy the LAVIIIs into the Solomons along with the 125 infantry soldiers who have just been deployed there? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: There is probably a variety of answers to that including firstly that they are not regarded as being needed there at the present time because not a shot has been fired to date. Usually light armoured vehicles are put in when that is anticipated. Secondly my understanding is that the vehicles have just started to arrive. The first of them came just a couple of weeks ago. The two plans have not fitted together in any case. 
Luamanuvao Winnie Laban 
: How will the capability of the LAVIII differ from the capability of the M113 in relation to deployment to Pacific Island countries? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I think the difference between the two vehicles is that we are comparing a vehicle from the 1960s with a vehicle that has been built for the 21st century. There is a range of things that the LAVIIIs have. They have greater protection for their occupants and I think that is most important. They have better firepower. They have night-fighting capability. They can actually fire while they are moving which the M113s could not. I think in just about every sense they are superior vehicles. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: Notwithstanding the Minister’s answer has he read of the United States Army’s concerns over the vulnerability of the LAVIIIs to rocket-propelled grenade fire and of its resulting decision to fit extra slat armour to the vehicles destined for Iraq in October? Will the New Zealand Army be purchasing and fitting extra armour to its light armoured vehicles; if not why not and if so at what cost? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Two of those three questions can be answered. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The United States is clearly not concerned about the vehicle; it has purchased 2200 of them. I will record for the member what the congressional committee said about that quite recently. The report stated that the Stryker which is the same as the LAVIII was “more survivable faster roomier more comfortable and less logistically demanding than the alternative M113A3”. The vehicle armour is very good. It can take at point-blank range a 7.62 millimetre bullet without the appliqué armour. It can survive a mine of 7.5 kilograms which is larger than a normal mine. It will blow a wheel off but the vehicle will keep going. In just about every respect it provides greater protection and that is why the Army made the decision to purchase that vehicle. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I seek leave to table an article from the  
Washington Times 
 entitled “A study finds new Army vehicles too vulnerable”. The article outlines the problems— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is. 
Hon Peter Dunne 
: In the event that there was to be a deployment of any light armoured vehicles to any South Pacific theatre of action is the Minister confident that we actually have the means of physically transporting them swiftly and safely to such a deployment at present? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The answer is yes. On every occasion when the New Zealand Army has deployed armoured vehicles they have been shipped by sea. They can be transported by aircraft but it is a rather expensive way of doing that. The C130 will take a LAVIII but as in East Timor if we were to send armoured vehicles to a particular theatre of action we would send them by sea. Generally of course we would contract a vessel to do that as we did with regard to East Timor. 
Ron Mark 
: Is the Minister aware that on the 13th of this month as a result of concerns expressed to the US Army’s Training and Doctrine Command Centre at Fort Monroe at the impending deployment to Iraq of a brigade of Strykers—concerns as to their vulnerability—that centre has announced that a battalion of helicopter gunships will now be assigned to protect the brigade of Strykers; if so when will New Zealand purchase its supply of helicopter gunships to protect our Strykers and what will the cost of that be? 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Two of those questions can be answered. 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: It has always been the case that when we have deployed troops in particular to a theatre of active warfare there is air support and that that is provided by allied countries. We did not use our air combat wing because its aircraft were too old to use in such theatres. I say this about the deployment to Iraq: any armoured vehicle can be disabled and destroyed by armaments. Seven US tanks have been so destroyed in the Iraqi war theatre. Generally one does not use light armoured vehicles where there is that sort of risk. If there will be heavy armaments one deploys other vehicles. And our troops would not do that either with the older M113 or the new LAVIII.