Guy NathanHon NATHAN GUY (Minister for Primary Industries): I welcome the Heron report. In fact I welcome the debate this afternoon in the House on this very important issue. What is really important is transparency in this matter and Queen's Counsel Michael Heron was brought in to have a look at three reports: Achilles Hippocamp and Overdue. When the director-general commissioned this report—[Interruption]Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I wonder whether the Minister would resume his seat. The member who is yelling out constantly and who did so through question time was given a warning. The urgent debate is for a purpose. The debate is to hold the Government to account. That is what the Hon David Parker has just called upon the Minister to do and he is endeavouring to respond to that and so he should. That is the purpose of an urgent debate. Let us hear it.Hon NATHAN GUY: Thanks Mr Deputy Speaker. I think that if Mr Cunliffe wants to make a contribution he should get to his feet and do it properly. The Director-General of the Ministry for Primary Industries Martyn Dunne established the terms of reference and got Queen's Counsel Michael Heron in to have a look at these three reports which I was alluding to before. In terms of Operation Overdue he determined that the decision not to prosecute was understandable; in another one Operation Hippocamp he determined that the decision not to prosecute was indeed understandable then as well; and in regard to the one that is primarily the focus of this debate this afternoon Operation Achilles the decision not to prosecute was understandable given the circumstances but the particular process leading to this action was flawed. As I have told the House this afternoon I am very disappointed that that did occur. There is no doubt that the decision not to prosecute in the case of Operation Achilles when the option was available is indeed highly regrettable. Given that the limitation period for prosecutions in this case has expired it is also regrettable that we cannot now hold these fishers to account. However it is important to note that Michael Heron QC made some other relevant findings specifically in regard to Operation Achilles. He said that it was a very complex matter and that it was approached professionally and in good faith by those involved. Overall the Queen's Counsel also went on to state that the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) prosecutes hundreds of cases per year and he added that its processes are generally robust and its people experienced and professional. There will be some very important lessons for MPI from this review and some of those lessons are already in train by the director-general. He has already confirmed to the public that he will act swiftly to put these measures in place. As Minister I have two main focuses that have come out of this report: to ensure that MPI will take whatever internal measures are necessary to prevent an issue like this from occurring again and to provide policy support to give MPI greater oversight over issues like discarding and dumping to help restore the public perception of the fishing industry. And of course MPI cannot do that; the fishers need to do that. In regard to the first point MPI's response has already signalled that it has got a review of the compliance functions under way it is reviewing and updating its prosecuting policy guidelines with input from Crown Law—I think that is going to be very important—and it is ensuring that formalised protocols and agreements are in place for responding to any potentially illegal activity that comes to light as a result of science or any research activity. Also MPI is developing the standard operating procedures for engagement and communications between the compliance officers the fisheries managers and also the scientists around advising on non-fish bycatch events such as Hector's dolphin captures. In regard to the second point we currently have the Future of Fisheries operational review under way. In this broad review there will be an opportunity for public engagement and consultation on ways that we can improve our fisheries management. The review will look at all policy levers in fisheries management such as deemed values to make sure we have the right mix of incentives and disincentives that will allow for a more sustainable use of our fishing resources going forward. I have already signalled that the rights around quota ownership and bag limits will not be part of this review. I believe that the fundamental tension in the quota management system between sustainability and the economic value of our fishing resources is sound—in other words fishers have a vested economic interest in ensuring that stocks are plentiful. This means that their quota actually has more value and in my view this is a good thing. Also there is no indication that quota ownership or bag limits are major issues around discarding or dumping. Therefore we should not undermine the confidence in the rights that fishers have in quota ownership by putting these up for consideration. But what we will be spending a period of time looking at through the process is some of those incentives and disincentives. As I mentioned before the rest of the review will be fairly wide ranging. One of the major policy initiatives that we have already started on is to do with electronic monitoring. When I talk about electronic monitoring I mean a vessel monitoring system (VMS) which is basically a GPS system electronic reporting and cameras on vessels. David Shearer: How long has that taken? Four years ago you announced that—4 years.Hon NATHAN GUY: We have learnt from Achilles and—if Mr Shearer was connected to fishers in the Hauraki he would already be aware that cameras and this electronic reporting—[Interruption]Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!Hon NATHAN GUY: —are on these vessels for the inshore fishery in the Hauraki. So Mr Shearer should keep up to speed that that is already under way in the Hauraki as we speak and it is actually proving to be very very beneficial. I have also said to my officials that we need to crack on and do the next stage with some urgency because that will be a powerful deterrent to illegal discarding and it will significantly strengthen the enforceability capability. Also this is going to be very important when you think about adding more value to our precious resource. You know with cameras and VMS exactly where the fish were caught then you move into the next stage of Precision Seafood Harvesting which has a fantastic new net design where fish species are selected at sea for size. They come on board the vessel in a lot better quality and then you can QR code them because of cameras and add a premium to our export markets. So GPS technology will mean we will know whether commercial fishers are fishing where they say they are and not where they are not meant to be. Also we will know when they are out of the line of sight exactly what they are doing. Importantly in terms of the compliance we have doubled the number of observers on these vessels in the last 10 years which has been hugely important for overall transparency. Also the industry needs to pull its socks up because at the heart of this issue are fishers. MPI does not go out fishing; the fishers do and it is hugely important that the public perception here of fishers in the commercial sector improves. So my challenge to those in the commercial sector is that they need to pull their socks up and get on board with these changes because if they do not our international reputation will be tarnished. What we should be aware of is that MPI already carries out 300 prosecutions a year across all of the different fisheries about 3000 infringements and 1000 vessel inspections. In conclusion I welcome the Heron report. I will do whatever I can to support MPI to make the changes. When we go through the next stage of the public consultation document—which will hopefully be out later this year—I am sure there will be a huge amount of feedback on this particular issue. I think fundamentally it will mean I will have to come into the House and change the law which I am hopeful that I will get broad support across the House for. I support the director-general Martyn Dunne to be able to make whatever changes he deems necessary within MPI. I think it was very telling that the State Services Commissioner Peter Hughes came out last week and said that when issues were raised Mr Dunne commissioned an independent review to look into the matter and to report back to him what happened. Mr Dunne has fully accepted the findings of the review and has a substantial programme of work under way which I have already alluded to and he has done everything that I would expect a public servant chief executive to do in a situation like this. So I welcome the Heron review. I welcome the findings of it. I will do what I need to do to make sure the changes are made and I want to ensure that the commercial sector steps up as well.