Parker David; Brown SimeonHon DAVID PARKER (Labour): Thank you Madam Chair. I'd like to ask the Minister whether these new regulation-making powers that give him more flexibility as to the distinction between type A and type B vehicles—I understand the distinction between different classes of importer. If you have an importer that imports a lot of vehicles like Toyota then they've got more flexibilities between models over a year and the existing legislation also allows them to bank credits towards a future year if they're doing better than the required average set by the standard—and that's a good thing probably. I'm not sure about the banking point but it's a good thing that they've all got flexibility within their own portfolio of vehicles.I wonder if the Minister can tell the House whether the flexibility introduced by these regulation-making powers increased or changes the ability of the Minister or gives the Minister on advice from the ministry the ability to change the categories between different sizes of vehicles? This is a vexed question because the more specific the regulation is and the more classes of vehicle that are created the less flexibility there is for the car companies to meet the standard in the most cost-efficient manner. And I would encourage and I would hope the Minister is giving himself more flexibility through these provisions because we don't have the chance to do this through select committee.And the reason why I would be supportive of that additional flexibility being given to the Minister is that if it's more cost effective for for example Toyota to meet its average obligations by importing a larger number of very small very fuel efficient cars or more Prius hybrids for example which are obviously cost effective. If it's more cost effective for them to actually offset the emissions for a large vehicle that for reasons of utility needs to be a fully internal combustion car—for example I know there are Ute alternatives at the moment but there might be some greater case for purely petrol or diesel large Utes and it would be more cost effective for consumers in New Zealand including the buyers of Utes if Toyota could use the ability to bring in more of the smaller vehicles in order to meet the overall average that we're trying to achieve as a country which is to overall improve the efficiency of the fleet. And we recognise there's a transition that's going to take longer for larger vehicles than for smaller vehicles. So my question in respect of that issue is whether that additional flexibility is being introduced.My second point is just to return to a matter when the Minister wasn't in the chair I did ask the question as to whether discount rates—because discount rates really drive the outcome of the cost-benefit analysis as to how hard you drive the standard because you're trying to compare the additional capital cost of a cleaner vehicle with the fuel savings. There's a timing difference and you reconcile those two numbers by the application of discount rates to convert into current dollars the future benefit of lower fuel costs compared with the additional capital cost which is incurred today. And if you use the wrong discount rate you actually kill the cost-benefit analysis you'll find that nothing makes sense. And those debates have been had ad infinitum within both the Treasury and Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority. And I would hope that the Minister is within these regulation-making powers able to keep an eye on that discount rate. Because if that discount rate is inappropriately used you will get the wrong outcome.And my third question for him in the short time I've got before I need to sit down here is has the Minister considered just handing this whole thing over to the private sector? I know that a long time ago—like back in 2005 to 2008 when Jeanette Fitzsimons and I were looking at these issues—we considered giving the whole thing over to TradeMe. TradeMe were willing to set up a secondary platform which sits behind their main market platform but uses the same technology. And they could very very simply run a scheme so long as the scheme is simple to run. And that's why if you set an average that's declining over time and have simple rules and not too many classes of vehicle you will find that the industry can do that through a platform that encourages trading between themselves as we as averaging within their own fleet in a way that would minimise the costs to the country.Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Transport): Oh thank you Madam Chair and I thank members for their questions. And the question in relation to the type A and B vehicles is defined in section 172 can be declared by regulations and is unchanged in this bill. In relation to the question around the discount rate; I mean this is ultimately simply around the cost recovery. This particular clause is talking about the cost recovery not the wider legislative place in terms of where this sits. We have made it clear in terms of previous answers to previous questions that we're not changing where the operation of this sits—those were determined by the previous Government. But the third question is an interesting point in terms of outsourcing it effectively to the sector. It's not something we had considered but I always remain with an open mind.