Simmonds PennyPENNY SIMMONDS (National—Invercargill): Thank you Mr Chair. Following on from my colleague Andrew Bayly and I know—I was going to say yesterday but it might only have been this morning Mr Chair; it seems so long ago—you called me up once when I started to look at the comparisons between the centralisation of the polytech sector with this centralisation. But Mr Chair I would contend that it's absolutely relevant because the sort of cost escalations that my colleague Mr Bayly was talking about are what is worrying me enormously around—CHAIRPERSON (Greg O'Connor): Your contention and my determination may differ but carry on for the time being.PENNY SIMMONDS: Thank you thank you very much. So if I can give you the example of just on the radio this morning Minister Hipkins has confessed that there will be somewhere between low hundreds of millions to mid hundreds of millions being needed to be spent to get commonality around the software applications needed to consolidate that many entities together.I guess what I'd like is some assurance from Minister Mahuta that in fact that's been thought about this time. Because for the centralisation of the polytechnics it obviously wasn't thought about and it's coming up now that this centralisation isn't costing the $200 million that was budgeted for but in fact half a billion just to get the operating systems there to allow it to actually work together—centralised working together.I'm sure we will find the same thing within the local authorities—that they will have different operating systems; they will have different IT systems. So I'd like some understanding that the Minister has worked through that has thought about that and actually has costed that in. Because saying that there will be savings is easy to say but it's very hard to take when after the fact—now we're talking perhaps half a billion more costs.Just also the other part that I want to ask about with the Minister—so looking at Part 4 in Schedule 2 which is the lift of the local authority entities. There are 20 different entities there with Marlborough District Council and Tasman District Council that also have part of their area within the Southern Water Services.So my understanding is that there might be 12 or 14 representatives. With 20—possibly 22—different district councils it would appear that the majority of these district councils will not have a representative on the boards. And we've talked about these smaller councils being worried about: one their loss of millions of dollars' worth of assets; and secondly having no voice at the table when decisions are being made about what happens with their assets.So we've talked a little bit also about the mana whenua appointments and I don't believe it was addressed by the Minister when I asked about the process in terms of an iwi like Ngāi Tahu that covers such a big geographic area that if there are no conditions or requirements about those mana whenua appointments they could well be from only one geographic part of the southern region—i.e. Christchurch—and so there may be no mana whenua representation coming from the bottom one-third of the South Island. I don't believe any assurance was given around that.I know with other iwi it won't be such an issue but for Ngāi Tahu they are covering a huge part of our land mass in New Zealand and I don't feel we've been given any assurances there. So how many of the 22 councils are going to miss out on having any voice and how will those mana whenua appointments occur?