Webb Duncan; Goldsmith PaulHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour—Christchurch Central): Thank you Mr Chair and good news: I have new material. In fact I have an amendment looking at the issue of gang insignia because as the Minister has made clear the gang patch ban—which I think is probably what we'd just call it—is about intimidation. One of the concerns I have is that there may be things which are worn—and in fact there are plenty of examples of garments or jewellery in particular which are simply not intimidating because the insignia which is there isn't actually visible and a ring would be a good example. It's commonplace in outlawed motorcycle gangs to wear sort of silver jewellery with motifs on it which fit the description of gang insignia. They signify some kind of association with a gang but of course if you're walking down the road and someone is wearing a silver ring you're not going to even notice that it's a gang insignia. However that could be used as a reason for the police to detain and remove that ring and so on and so forth in a way which is actually at odds with the purpose of the bill because it wasn't intimidating at all. So the amendment which has got a w" on it—marked "w"—suggests that in the definition of "gang insignia" a further paragraph is added: "(c) but does not include any insignia or item that is not readily visible and identifiable as gang insignia from a reasonable distance such as jewellery". Minister I'm really interested not only in your response to this particular paper but in terms of what you've said previously you've said that this bill is about stopping intimidation and I'm interested in your view on whether that's all it does or whether it's just about cracking down on gangs more generally and their insignia wherever they may be—intimidating or not—because from your responses it would appear to be the latter but the bill itself says the former. In terms of the limitations on association on free speech and expression and so on I would be concerned if there wasn't a proper purpose if you like. We don't agree with much of this bill but stopping intimidation is a proper purpose and it's a proper thing to pursue but just cracking down on gang insignia for the sake of it clearly isn't. So there's an amendment which is premised on what the bill says its purpose is—stopping intimidation—and I'd like the Minister's view on whether he would find that an acceptable amendment but also his view on gang insignia more generally. Is it about just gang insignia and a gang crackdown or is it about making sure that people aren't intimidated because I know he will have read assiduously the amendments on the Table and will have seen that there are some other items there which again go to situations where gang insignias are there in the public but they don't transgress his intimidation principle if you like—and I'll speak to those shortly. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice): I'd just point out for the benefit of the member that the purpose of the bill is indeed to deal with intimidation by gangs but that's not the only purpose. The purpose is to reduce the ability of gangs to operate; secondly to cause fear; thirdly to cause intimidation; and fourthly to cause disruption to the public. So there are a number of purposes."