Logie Jan: Estimates Debate — In CommitteeText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeLogie Jan: Estimates Debate — In Committee[Sitting date: 28 July 2015. Volume:707;Page:5412. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]JAN LOGIE (Green): I would like to focus tonight on one small aspect of the health estimates rather than do the large overview. I would like this Committee to consider—what if there was a way of providing an essential medical service that was safer more accessible cheaper and less traumatic for patients and that also saved millions of precious health budget dollars? Well there is but we need to change our abortion laws to make it possible.Our abortion law in New Zealand was introduced in 1977 without even one woman’s vote in support of it. It maintains abortion is a crime unless two certifying consultants sign off that a pregnant person meets the legal criteria for an abortion—that is that there is a serious danger to the life or physical and mental—The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): Order! We are debating on the appropriations estimates. The member must come back to what has been reported back. That is what this debate is about. It is not a general debate on health matters. So the member should concentrate on what is actually in the Estimates.JAN LOGIE: Point of clarification—I am just trying to understand this process. The Budget where there are budget lines around sexual and reproductive health within the Budget—that is not enough—The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): I do not have a copy in front of me. [Interruption] There is a copy here—JAN LOGIE: So it is the Budget not the committee report?The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): So this is the Estimates. I would just ask the member—what you are saying if you could tie it back to what is actually in the Estimates. That is what it is about.JAN LOGIE: So it can be broader than the select committee discussion which does introduce sexual and reproductive health?The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): You just carry on but I want you to tie it back into the appropriations.JAN LOGIE: Sure and the budgetthat is in the estimates around funding for sexual and reproductive healthdoes relate to the service and the fact that every year $3.5 million is spent on consulting physicians which is required by our very outdated law. The law requires that a child would be severely handicapped physically or mentally that pregnancy is a result of either incest or unlawful sex with their guardian or severe mental subnormality of the mother. Clearly this law entrenches deeply discriminatory beliefs that harm people with disabilities and also represents a profound mistrust of women. You will note that in that list rape is not grounds for abortion in this country because when it was debated by the men in this House at that time they said that if it were then all women would just say they had been raped to get an abortion. Women were not and it seems they are still not able to be trusted in our laws.This system costs $3.5 million a year—Simon O’Connor: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. Although I appreciate that the member is raising what is an important issue to her this really has nothing to do with the estimates or what the committee discussed in any way shape or form.Metiria Turei: Point of order.The CHAIRPERSON (Lindsay Tisch): No I am going to deal with the point of order. The member is talking about the law and how the law—that is what I am taking out of what you are saying whereas this debate is about the appropriations rather than the law in general and those points of interest to you. So let us try again.JAN LOGIE: That was the framing for it Mr Chair. Thank you very much.This entire system costs far more than the $3.5 million that is required as a result of our laws for the consulting physicians because in this country in the way it is happening at the moment and is organised pregnant people will be required to see up to five doctors just to be allowed an abortion. The doctors may be in different places requiring separate appointments and trips. The West Coast and Whanganui still do not offer abortion services which requires more money and more time to be found for travel—all paid for through our health budget. Plus all but two district health boards that offer abortion services require mandatory ultrasounds and in several districts you have to go to another service to get this ultrasound. This is all an unnecessary expense and stress and is against the World Health Organization guidelines.Critically too each of these steps delays access to abortion. Prior to 9 weeks early medical abortion is carried out which is more like a natural miscarriage. After 9 weeks it is a later medical abortion which is more like inducing labour. The Abortion Supervisory Committee advises that it is best practice to carry out abortions before 9 weeks but sadly because of our system women are required to jump through so many hoops that most abortions happen in later term. Only a third of abortions were carried out in this country before 9 weeks because the women were required to jump through so many unnecessary and medically unjustifiable hoops.We have a law and a system in place that is expensive and prevents best medical practice. These processes required or enabled by this system that shows up in our Budget are also a breach of the Code of Health and Disability Consumers’ Rights which guarantees every consumer the right to be provided with services that take into account the needs values and beliefs of different cultural religious social and ethnic groups and guarantees that every consumer be presumed competent to make an informed choice and give informed consent unless there are reasonable grounds for believing they are not competent. Our current law and Budget remove women’s competency.Abortion is a health service. I get that some people are morally opposed to it; that is OK. If you do not want one do not have one. But we recognised that abortion was a health service back in the 1970s. We need to ensure that our current health system is based on best practice and the needs of patients rather than on the morals of a minority. Our wider health budget could do with the resources.Progress reported.Report adopted.