Shearer David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Shearer David: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:675;Page:21277] 
12. 
DAVID SHEARER (Labour—Mt Albert) 
 to the  
Minister of Transport 
: Is he satisfied that the Puhoi to Wellsford road of national significance represents good value for money and has had its costs and benefits adequately assessed? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE (Minister of Transport) 
: 
 In regard to the Puhoi to Wellsford road it is too early to confirm exactly what the final cost-benefit ratio will be. The New Zealand Transport Agency remains in the design and investigation phase and this work is ongoing. The most recent published benefit-cost ratio is 1:1 including wider economic benefits and this can be found on the New Zealand Transport Agency website. Given the nature of the ongoing work the exact cost—the “c” of the “b-c”—will not be known until the design is complete and the New Zealand Transport Agency will continue to update me as this work progresses. 
David Shearer 
: I seek leave to table the  
Puhoi to Wellsford: Project Summary Statement 
 which states that according to a Treasury calculus the cost-benefit is— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Before the member goes into that detail what is the source of the document? 
David Shearer 
: The New Zealand Transport Agency 2010. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: A New Zealand Transport Agency document. Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
David Shearer 
: Was a specific cost-benefit analysis of the Puhoi to Wellsford “Holiday Highway” project undertaken or anything like that before it was identified as a road of national significance? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: In answering the member’s question I should point out that he is inaccurate. There is actually a table of benefit-cost ratios with different discount rates and with or without wider economic benefits—I should point that out. That table is of course in the report that the member has just tabled. In relation to the question though the projects were specifically identified as strategic projects that the Government sought to see developed and the identification of the actual benefit-cost ratios has continued through that process as the member is aware. 
David Shearer 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I specifically asked whether a benefit-cost analysis was done before the road was declared a road of national significance and I do not think the Minister really addressed that. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: The Minister believes he has answered that. Maybe if the Minister just clarified that part of his answer because he did start his answer with some rather different information. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Repeating that answer for the member I say that the projects were identified based on their strategic benefit for the country. The benefit-cost ratios of all the projects have been calculated. Some of them had benefit-cost ratios calculated at the time and others had them developed through the process. But as I said to the member in my answer to his first question these continue to be refined over time so there is no final benefit-cost ratio. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I apologise to my colleague. It was a very specific question which had to do with one project. The Minister made general comments about other projects but did not answer that question for this project. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: It seemed to me despite my ear being terrible on the right that he was saying that at the time it was named as a road of national significance there was no information about the costs so it was impossible to have a benefit-cost ratio. That is what he seemed to be saying. The answer to the member’s question seemed to be no therefore. 
David Shearer 
: Does the Minister still have confidence that the “Holiday Highway” can be built under a budget of $2 billion when the State highways manager Tommy Parker recently stated: “Every time you put a spade in the ground up there you’ve got to put in retaining structures or tunnels or something. The level of ground movement is more than we had anticipated which makes huge problems and huge costs.”; if he does have confidence what might minimise these unforeseen costs? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Obviously the member has been catching up with his reading. I mean this was publicised in mid-July of this year— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a straight question—although you Mr Speaker do not like the title given to the highway—and it was a gratuitous initial response. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: An opinion was sought asking whether the Minister agreed with Tommy Parker and questions asking for an opinion are always less precise. But perhaps the start of the answer was unnecessarily gratuitous. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: Speaking to the point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No I have dealt with the question. The Minister should— 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It is a further point of order. The member persists in calling it a “Holiday Highway” which I think many people around the country find a little offensive and I think that is a gratuitous and opinionated matter so I think that on balance the question was met with a similar answer. 
David Shearer 
: Point of order— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will deal with this matter right now and take no further points of order on the matter. The Minister does make a valid point that calling a road of national significance a “Holiday Highway” is gratuitous. The Minister makes a perfectly fair point. However let us get on with the answer because a question was asked and apart from the unnecessary use of that language the question was a perfectly reasonable question so let us hear the answer. 
David Shearer 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. Although I take your advice on that about a year ago Mr Joyce was at a meeting where he called the highway the so-called “Holiday Highway”— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I am on my feet and there will be no further comment from anyone. Clearly if the member wants a straight answer to a question the road being referred to is the Puhoi to Wellsford road on State Highway 1. If the member wants answers to questions it is best to use the straight language. It leaves Ministers less opportunity to wriggle. 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: The point I was making to the member is that we have been aware for some time that particularly north of Warkworth there are some challenges. In fact the  
New Zealand Herald 
 of Friday 15 July broke the story for the member by saying that there were some issues in Dome Valley in particular. I think that is the point—it is challenging and there are significant challenges to be worked through and there are engineering challenges which I believe I have also acknowledged previously in this House. There is more work to be done and again we will not know the final benefit-cost ratio until that work is done. 
David Shearer 
: Given that more than 40 people have died on the Puhoi to Wellsford road in the past 9 years what action has the Minister taken to upgrade the existing State Highway 1 while we wait for his Puhoi to Wellsford road? 
Hon STEVEN JOYCE 
: The Transport Agency has taken a number of initiatives including two—I would have to say—varied reviews lowering the speed limit on part of the section of that road to 80 kilometres an hour to assist in lowering the road toll. As I say they have been varied reviews but doing that has actually had some success in the incidence of accidents. It remains a very dangerous piece of road though and ultimately the answer is to have a separated highway for those high-volume highways around the country where we have high volumes of traffic seeking to pass each other in opposite directions in very difficult conditions. That is why this road is being developed.