Fenton Darien: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fenton Darien: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:629;Page:1365] 
9.  
DARIEN FENTON (Labour) 
 to the  
Minister of Labour 
: What recent reports if any has she received on minimum wage levels? 
Hon RUTH DYSON (Minister of Labour) 
: 
 A Department of Labour report shows that as of next month successive Labour-led Governments since 1999 will have lifted the minimum adult wage by 46 percent and the minimum youth wage by 95 percent. 
Darien Fenton 
: Has the Minister seen any other reports concerning minimum wage rates? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: As a matter of fact I have. I have seen a report in which is expressed a strong desire to scrap the minimum wage and increase the number of people on welfare. I quote: “If they can’t live on those wages then find some way of supplementing their income.” So said Dr Brash. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Nick Smith at the end of that question said: “That’s just untrue.” He is not allowed to say that about something that is said quite specifically by a Minister in this House. It calls into question the veracity of the Minister and on many occasions members have been disciplined for doing that. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I did not hear the interjection. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: A common technique of Ministers to get outside— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Would the member speak just to the point of order please? 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: Yes. Well the point of order is about compliance with the Standing Orders. The Minister conveniently—and she is not the only Minister to do it—gets around Standing Order 377 in that it is not her job to talk about what Don Brash or any member of the National Party said. We are quite capable of talking for ourselves. So what Ministers do is get a long list of terrible things that were said—most of which are untrue—and tag on right at the end who said them. I interjected quite properly that what was said by Ruth Dyson was not true. It was a perfectly proper interjection firstly because she has no responsibility for what was said—she was breaching Standing Order 377 in the first place—and secondly what she said was not true. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Madam Speaker— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: It is members’ day! 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I want to make it absolutely clear to the House that as that reply was being given by the Minister Don Brash was nodding in confirmation—pleading guilty in fact to making the comments. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I thank the member for that. The point is whether there is an implication of deliberate misleading—and I did not take that to be this situation. It was just that it was wrong from the member’s point of view; it was not that the Minister was personally misleading the House. 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. I understand from the interjection Dr Smith made that he was accusing me of misrepresenting Dr Brash in a quote. That quote was directly from an interview with Dr Brash on  
Good Morning 
 on Television One on 26 August 2004. Therefore my integrity has been challenged and I ask you to seek withdrawal of that comment from Dr Smith. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Dr Smith the Minister has sought a withdrawal of the comment— 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: What the Minister said was not true and I stand by that. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: The Minister has asked because offence was taken in respect of the implication. She has given evidence of where the quote came from. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. Might you explain to the House under Standing Order 377 where that Minister was in order at all in talking about what Dr Brash had said as it occurs all over the place. It occurs repeatedly. The reason why the House gets into trouble is that you do not enforce Standing Order 377 whereby Ministers have no responsibility for what any member of the Opposition says. It has nothing to do with their ministerial responsibilities. I think I am perfectly entitled when members from this side of the House are half-quoted to say “simply not true.” 
Hon Mark Burton 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister was replying to a specific question as to whether she had seen any reports. The Minister had clearly seen a report and furthermore she subsequently quoted the source and date of that report. It clearly was in order. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think the point here however is that any member has a right to object to a personal reflection. That has happened here so in that context I would ask the member to please withdraw the comment. 
Hon Dr Nick Smith 
: I withdraw. 
Dr Wayne Mapp 
: How will the Government’s proposal to boost the minimum adult wage to $12 an hour in 2008 improve New Zealand’s already low productivity given that Britain the United States and Australia have minimum wages lower as a percentage of incomes than New Zealand but they are much wealthier than New Zealand? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: The member is correct in pointing out that addressing productivity is a key priority for this Government and it is good that we are able to do it with the lowest unemployment rates recorded in New Zealand for over two decades. Making workers feel valued for the value of the work that they contribute by giving them a fair wage is an important contributor to that goal. 
Hon Jim Anderton 
: Has the Minister seen any OECD reports where the OECD now believes that minimum wages are a very positive reinforcement of productivity and economic growth for economies when previously they held a different view? 
Hon RUTH DYSON 
: That is absolutely correct and I would recommend that the member who asked the previous supplementary question read the report.