English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:634;Page:6080] 
7.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Does he agree with the statement that: “Suddenly the standards-based regime is beginning to look like it’s getting the norm referenced treatment. With an expected 70 per cent pass rate it looks a bit like School C which allowed a 60 per cent pass rate.”; if not why not? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY (Minister of Education) 
: 
 No. The statement is from Saturday’s  
New Zealand Herald 
 which refers to a State Services Commission report of 2005 recommending measures to strengthen moderation of external assessment by “defining normative grade boundaries which can function as a safety net for the 2005 external assessments:”. The report itself states that “bands of accepted tolerance” should be developed and that “variation beyond these bands should be brought within tolerances unless there is a defendable explanation for that variation”. As a result of this recommendation the New Zealand Qualifications Authority developed profiles of expected performance. These provide a trigger to investigate marking when results suggest students are not consistently achieving what was expected when the exam was set. This was explained to the member last week. It is what is allowing the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to address problems with variability. 
Hon Bill English 
: Why should parents teachers or students believe what the Minister says when he defended the results of National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) exams in 2004 as “just fine” then brought in normative-based bands with variations to reduce the variability then defended the results of the 2005 exams as “just fine” and right now is trying to sneak in major changes to the way the New Zealand Qualifications Authority sets external exams; and does the Minister accept that 2005 was not “fine”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I have been the Minister for 12 months so let me just focus on the second part of the question that the member raised the part about 2005. Let me use that as an example. What I said about those exams is that we have improved a great deal and that we have laid the platform that will enable us to make more improvements and that is exactly what we are doing. I have said this so often that I am beginning to think the member has a case of amnesia. 
Dianne Yates 
: Further to the explanation already given what is the process for ensuring that the results for the external assessments under NCEA are fair and consistent for all students? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: For each externally assessed standard the profile of expected performance is developed using historical information and expert advice on the relative difficulty of various subjects. The profiles are used as a screening device to check that marking is consistent. If a profile is different from that which is expected marking is suspended and the reasons are investigated. In a small number of cases the marking schedule is adjusted to better reflect the national standard in light of the students’ work. The papers and questions are then re-marked. That ensures NCEA exams are fair and consistent for every single student. I think I have answered that question numerous times over the summer period and my answer has not changed in its form. 
Hon Brian Donnelly 
: Can the Minister confirm that pass rates for School Certificate Agriculture in 1998 and 2001 were 41.1 percent and 51.4 percent respectively and for Latin in the same years were 93.7 percent and 94.1 percent and do not these figures make any comparisons with NCEA pass rates effectively meaningless? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: If I think very carefully I can recall every single one of those figures as being accurate; therefore I can confirm the member’s question as being accurate as well. 
Hon Bill English 
: If the changes the Minister was forced to make to NCEA assessment last year were effective valid and credible why has he this year set up a technical overview group comprising Professors Gary Hawk Terry Crooks John Hattie Cedric Hall and Jeff Smith to investigate fundamental changes to how the New Zealand Qualifications Authority writes marks and tests external exams? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I am always interested that the member delivers such questions with such grim determination. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: We are not going to comment on presentation. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I do not know how many times I have told the member that this is exactly what we have been saying all summer that we would do and we are doing it. 
Hon Bill English 
: Does the Minister stand by his statement that he had been saying he was doing this all last year when it had not become public knowledge that he was using assessment experts to fundamentally change NCEA assessment until he answered a parliamentary question on Friday 1 September and when no school I know and have spoken to is aware that these changes are going on? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I am really sorry to continue to disappoint the member but I have been continually saying that there were 200-plus recommendations last year from the State Services Commission; that during the summer period every time there was a problem we would record it; that this year if we could not fix it at the time we would fix it now; that we would have the same kind of reference group for NCEA that we have for Scholarship; that we would have a leaders’ forum that would work with us on these issues; that I have asked the New Zealand Qualifications Authority to carry on doing work on these issues and that I have said to the member repeatedly that if he ever has a good idea—which he never has—he might like to give it to me and we will change that matter too. 
Hon Bill English 
: Will the changes being investigated by the technical overview group—which amount to fundamental changes in external assessment—apply to NCEA exams this year or not? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: As I said before this is a process that will go on for a while as we get these issues right. We are looking at issues this year which have resulted for example in a change to the Record of Learning. There is nothing different there going on at all— 
Hon Bill English 
: Answer the question. 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: —and I am sorry but I tell the member that I cannot answer it any differently from the way I have before. There are ongoing changes; some will take place this year some will take place next year and probably some will take place the year after. But we will get this exam right. One of the good things about it however is that the last exam season meant that everybody except him and Warwick Elley thought we were on the right road now. 
Hon Bill English 
: What would the Minister say to a parent who has heard the Minister’s conflicting and confusing answers to proposed solutions to problems he will never admit to when this parent has made a public comment to this effect: “My daughter gained two maths credits last week by sitting a practice test the day before the real test. Both tests had identical types of questions but with different answers and students who failed were given the opportunity to re-sit a third test.”? 
Hon STEVE MAHAREY 
: I would say that many times this member has raised issues in the House that have been wrong so if he will give me the case I will investigate it.