Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume 
Mallard Trevor: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Sitting date: 16 August 2011. Volume:675;Page:20887. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.] 
4. 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Labour—Hutt South) 
 to the  
Prime Minister 
: Does he stand by his answer to Oral Question No 1 yesterday in relation to unemployed 15 to 19-year-olds “If we look at the household labour force survey we see that there are 26700 people in the 15 to 19-year-old category”? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT (Minister for Social Development and Employment) 
 on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yesterday the Prime Minister corrected some answers he gave in oral question No. 1. Phil Goff had asked him whether he stood by his claim that 60 percent of young people not in education employment or training are actually at school or at university. As he has never in fact made that claim and as the statement Mr Goff made— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Hon Annette King 
: You’re answering the wrong question. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I say thank you to my colleague for helping. It was a very specific question about a number that the Prime Minister used which is in the  
Hansard 
—and as far as we could tell it was uncorrected later—and it is a simple question: does he stand by that? It is nothing to do with anything that Mr Goff said. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I hear— 
Hon Simon Power 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I will hear the Hon Simon Power. 
Hon Simon Power 
: Thank you Mr Speaker I appreciate that. My hearing of the Minister’s answer initially was that she said he corrected part of his answer and then she went on to describe further which actually does answer the initial part of the question that Mr Mallard had set down. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: That would be possible as long as the answer that was corrected is the answer that this quote is taken from. I just want the Minister to be sure because this quote is taken from an answer—I accept absolutely the point made by the Hon Trevor Mallard—and off the top of my head I cannot recollect whether that was the particular answer corrected by the Prime Minister. As long as the Minister is certain that that is the answer that was corrected by the Prime Minister when leave was subsequently granted to correct the answer then the Minister’s answer is perfectly in order. But I do want her to be sure of that. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I have been advised that the full quote was corrected yesterday by the Prime Minister when he came back into the House.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: In light of the fact that he has corrected that is he prepared to correct the next sentence of his answer where he said “Of those 60 percent are in school university training or study of some sort which leaves 15000 in that category.” given that 15000 out of 26700 is 54 percent not 40 percent? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: This gets to the crux of the problem where the Opposition is talking at times about the unemployment rate and at other times about the number of young people not in education employment or training and that is why the Prime Minister needed to correct his answer yesterday. The question is whether we are talking about the unemployment rate or the number not in education employment or training.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. It was a very nice explanation but again it was not of the question that was asked. I asked whether the Prime Minister stood by 15000 out of 26700 being 40 percent or whether like most of us he makes that 54 percent?  
Mr SPEAKER 
: The quotes are taken directly from  
Hansard 
 as I understand it and if they were corrected the  
Hansard 
 would show that. I ask the Minister to focus particularly on the supplementary question that the Hon Trevor Mallard has asked because it did follow on exactly from this first statement that of the 26700 15 to 19-year-olds so many were in certain places. The question asked whether the Prime Minister still stood by that. I ask the Minister to be a little more specific in answering on behalf of the Prime Minister please.  
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. May I seek clarification? I need the first bit to make sure that I am clarifying that quote. I need to know whether it is the unemployment rate or the not in education employment or training rate.  
Mr SPEAKER 
: To avoid doubt I ask the member to repeat his question if that is possible please.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I do repeat the question and I am giving the member the full quote again. It is the next sentence in his answer and I quote: “Of those 60 percent are in school university training or study of some sort which leaves 15000 in that category.” given that 15000 out of 26700 is 54 percent not 40 percent.  
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: The Prime Minister stands by the statement that 60 percent of 15 to 19-year-olds who are classified as unemployed in the household labour force survey are at school university or some form of training. Therefore that is the answer to the question.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Does he still believe that 15000 out of 26700 is 40 percent?  
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: I would not agree with the numbers the member has just given.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker.  
Mr SPEAKER 
: Did not the Minister answer it? She said that she did not agree with it.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: She did not agree with the figures I gave. Does that mean— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Let us come back to order here. We had better not debate this. The member asked his question. He asked whether the Prime Minister still agreed with those certain figures and I thought the Minister’s answer was that she did not agree with those figures but I might be wrong on that.  
Katrina Shanks 
: Does the Government consider youth unemployment rates to be a practically useful measure?  
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: No because as I have said a full 60 percent of 15 to 19-year-olds who are classified as unemployed in the household labour force survey are at school university or in some other form of training and are therefore not a particular concern to the Government. On the other hand a lot of the young people whom we are most concerned about are not technically unemployed according to the household labour force survey because they are not out there looking for work. That is why the Government prefers to focus on the “neet” measure—that is young people who are not in education employment or training.  
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Does she agree with Statistics New Zealand figures that show that 58000 15 to 24-year-olds are not in employment education or training; if not what is the correct figure? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: Broadly yes. 
Hilary Calvert 
: Supplementary to the Prime Minister—[ 
Interruption 
]  
Mr SPEAKER 
: I expect members to show some courtesy. 
Hilary Calvert 
: Does he agree with the statement made by the Minister for Social Development and Employment in relation to youth unemployment that “we have seen a dramatic increase in the rate for 16 and 17-year-olds.”; if so does he think this just confirms how disastrous Labour’s abolition of youth rates has been? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: For the first part yes. For 16 and 17-year-olds the unemployment rate has gone from 28.5 percent in June 2010 to 33.6 percent in June 2011. However it is interesting that for 18 and 19-year-olds the figures were 20.7 percent in June 2010 and 20.7 percent in June 2011. Both figures are too high and of concern; that is why we announced the package of reforms that we did on Sunday. 
Katrina Shanks 
: Who are these young people who are not in education employment or training? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: The Prime Minister talked in detail about the 16 and 17-year-olds who are not in education employment or training in his policy speech at the weekend. That leaves 18 to 24-year-olds. Of the 50000 18 to 24-year-olds who are not in education employment or training— 
Hon Members 
: 58000. 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: —18 to 24-year-olds who are not in education employment or training I am advised that 70 percent are on a benefit of some sort not including the domestic purposes benefit. They will be people who are on the sickness benefit the invalids benefit or the unemployment benefit. That brings us back to the need for welfare reform which is what the Government has been focusing on. How can we get a lot more of these people off benefits and into sustainable work? 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Why did he criticise Statistics New Zealand by saying its unemployment statistics are “of no value for me” when he in fact got the figures wrong? 
Hon PAULA BENNETT 
: The Prime Minister came in yesterday and corrected one of his answers to a question which he is now standing by. The other answers he gave were all correct. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The question was very direct as to why he criticised Statistics New Zealand. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: But the member went on to say: “when he got his figures wrong”. The Minister in answering the question on behalf of the Prime Minister picked up on that statement included in the question and refuted it which Ministers are allowed to do.