Mapp Wayne: General Debate 
Mapp Wayne: General Debate 
[Volume:640;Page:10698] 
Dr WAYNE MAPP (National—North Shore) 
: 
 People on the left always think that politics permeates everything and everyone. This is why they have politicised the public service. It is extraordinary that they would do that. If members want proof there is an advertisement that says: “Do you want to work on issues that are at the forefront of the New Zealand political agenda?”. That is an advertisement for the New Zealand public service—a place that has traditionally been politically neutral. What do people on the left want to do? They want to politicise the public service. 
Let me say to Mr Benson-Pope that the country has made up its mind about him and does not believe the Minister. The reason why is that the Minister has a reputation for not telling the truth. Invariably the truth has to be extracted. That is what happened over his former teaching predilections concerning tennis balls and now it is happening all over again. Yesterday in parliamentary questions he denied having discussions with his staff member Mr Hurring about Ms Setchell’s employment. We now know that was not a true statement because it was contradicted by his own answers today and of course his Freudian slips on radio. He said today in the House that Mr Hurring had had several telephone conversations on 28 May and 29 May—five conversations in total. The Minister was asked directly by Mr Brownlee if he had had discussions with Mr Hurring. 
Chris Auchinvole 
: What did he say? 
Dr WAYNE MAPP 
: He did not answer yes or no; all he said was: “I refer you to the report by Mr Iain Rennie.” I have read that report and I presumed the Minister was referring to paragraph 3 or maybe paragraph 7. But there is absolutely nothing in the report at all that says anything about discussions between the Minister and Mr Hurring; it is silent on that particular issue and the Minister knows it and he did not answer. I say to the Minister: “Did he speak to Mr Hurring or not?” or are we expected to believe that there was not a single word over 2 days—that with five telephone conversations between Mr Hurring and the department there was not a single word between Mr Benson-Pope and Mr Hurring? 
In truth the newspapers and indeed Mr Benson-Pope contradict his answers in this House because in the  
Dominion Post  
of 24 July Mr Benson-Pope said he did know the calls were being made. I have to ask the Minister how he knew. Did he just divine this out of thin air? The truth is Mr Hurring must have told him so why did he give that answer in the House when he simply referred to the State Services report? In the discussions with Mr Logan which are referred to in the report are we really expected to believe that all he said—the only thing he said—was: “It’s all your decision.”? What was the context of that particular statement? Was it about for instance something like a conservation reserve? We know it was not that; it was about an employment procedure and there must have been other things that were actually said. I suspect that what was really said was something like this: “I am concerned about that employment. I don’t want it to happen”—and as some kind of saving rider—“but of course it’s your own decision.” 
It is all a bit like the television series  
House of Cards 
 where a similarly sinister Minister Francis Urquhart would always say to a proposition put to him: “Well you might possibly think that but I couldn’t possibly say.” Let me say to Mr Benson-Pope that he is not half as slick as the slippery Mr Francis Urquhart. This country has already made up its mind about Mr Benson-Pope. People say he does not tell the truth; they say he should go. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: The member knows that he cannot indicate that a member is misleading the House. There are many other ways of making the point that a member believes something is incorrect. The member will stand and withdraw. 
Dr WAYNE MAPP 
: Mr Speaker— 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: I just ask the member to stand and withdraw. 
Dr WAYNE MAPP 
: I withdraw. 
The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (H V Ross Robertson) 
: Thank you.