Hughes Darren: Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
Hughes Darren: Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill — In Committee Third Reading 
[Volume:651;Page:249] 
Hon DARREN HUGHES (Labour) 
: 
 The Taxation (Urgent Measures and Annual Rates) Bill is another example of a bill the Opposition has received just as the debate has started. If there is not going to be select committee consideration of these bills and if the Opposition is not going to get the opportunity to read them before the debate starts it is important that we get the chance during the Committee stage to ask questions of members and of the Minister in the chair Bill English in particular. If we cannot do that it will mean these important bills go right through the legislative procedure with no proper scrutiny—because we can guarantee the Government caucus will not have asked any questions when Cabinet took it to the meeting. There will have been no proper chance for transparency on this legislation. We need to use this opportunity to do that. 
I have some questions to ask the Minister of Finance when he has finished sending text messages and smiling about how smart he is. My first question to him asks how many extra people will join KiwiSaver because of this change in Part 4. I am asking the Minister of Finance how many extra people will join KiwiSaver because of the changes he is introducing in Part 4. Can he give me a number? 
Chris Tremain 
: How are you going to know that? 
Hon DARREN HUGHES 
: Chris Tremain asks how we are going to know that. Every single speech that National Party members have given tonight including the speech made by Chris Tremain has said that halving KiwiSaver contributions will open the floodgates to low-income workers wanting to join KiwiSaver. When I ask Government members whether this will lead to 10000 or 20000 extra people joining a year they laugh and say nothing about it. They have no answer. Chris Tremain used the basis of his speech to tell us that this change in Part 4 will make sure that lots of other people will be able to join but those members will not answer the question. 
Hon Bill English 
: Ask the question again. 
Hon DARREN HUGHES 
: I have already asked the Minister the question. The Minister knows what it is. 
Hon Bill English 
: How many people voted against you in the Otaki seat? 
Hon DARREN HUGHES 
: Not many. I tell the member that yes I was defeated. Oh yes; “Mr Comedy Show” over there thinks he is David Letterman but that is about half an hour away. The only joke Bill English knows about defeats is the 2002 one because out of every member sitting in here there is only one man who had the worst defeat in 100 years and it is not me; it is Bill English. 
Hon Bill English 
: I’m back. 
Hon DARREN HUGHES 
: He says he is back. He thinks he is the leader of the Government. He thinks he is the Prime Minister of New Zealand but we know he is not. He is the also-ran and when I asked him a serious question about people joining KiwiSaver he had nothing proper to say at all. 
The KiwiSaver scheme is the one that National members said was nothing more than a glorified Christmas club. They voted against it in droves after we introduced it. John Key said that the only person it would be good for was his pool boy which I thought was an extraordinary revelation. Those members said the scheme was a glorified Christmas club and not worth anything whatsoever. Then New Zealanders joined and they joined not just in the numbers we thought they would—and we were an optimistic Government a sunshine Government; we looked at things and said this would work—but in numbers four times that amount. Tonight the number of New Zealanders who have joined the KiwiSaver scheme stands at 827000. 
We are told that if the benefits of KiwiSaver are reduced if the entitlements people get from KiwiSaver are halved as in Part 4 then somehow more people will join. National has no answer except to say that halving the contribution will make more people join—and Annette King said that if it is zero plus zero then even more people will! If four plus four is so terrible that two plus two is better then maybe zero plus zero would be better or even better maybe 2 percent from the worker and 4 percent from the boss. But National members did not want to go for that one either. Why is National not giving a choice in Part 4? I thought National was the party of choice. It could have said it would introduce a third level into KiwiSaver which could be either “2 plus 2” “4 plus 4” or “8 plus 4”. National could have put more choice into KiwiSaver but instead it is shutting the door on it. 
This whole bill is a disaster. We are opposed to the whole thing. It is amazing that some of the parties in Parliament are voting for it. It is amazing that the Maori Party is voting to put taxes up for some people. It is amazing that the ACT Party is voting for it. Roger Douglas wrote books about the fact that the scheme he helped with back in the 1970s was abolished. He said it was one of the biggest missed opportunities yet on his first week back in Parliament he is voting out another scheme that is for savings for the economy and for working families across our country. So it is amazing to see the number of parties that are lining up to vote against it. What they are doing is a mistake. 
Out of all the parts in the bill this part is the worst. The reason is that this part will have an effect on New Zealand for the worst in 20 years’ time. This part of the bill changes the choices people can make in their working lives and in 20 30 or 40 years’ time they will not be able to go back and change those choices. People cannot go back and save more once their working lives are over. Tax rates go up and down of course with political debate. We know that. That will happen throughout political history. But those members opposite are shutting the door on a chance for working people to build up their savings over their working lives