Shaw James: Oral Questions — Questions to MinistersText is incorporated into the Bound VolumeShaw James: Oral Questions — Questions to Ministers[Sitting date: 05 May 2016. Volume:713;Page:10829. Text is incorporated into the Bound Volume.]4.JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister of Revenue: How many times did the Minister meet with representatives from the foreign trust industry between 27 November 2014 and 14 May 2015 and what other stakeholders did he meet with during that time period to discuss foreign trusts?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (Minister of Revenue): I am advised that the Minister at the time had one meeting with representatives of the foreign trust industry and one subsequent meeting with the advisers to the foreign trust group OliverShaw Ltd. That meeting was on a range of issues one of which was foreign trusts.James Shaw: Why did he not also meet with stakeholders from the international development community the Tax Justice Network the Law Foundation the United Nations Convention Against Corruption Transparency International or tax experts like Professor Craig Elliffe or Dr Deborah Russell?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: Not being the Minister at that time I am unable to answer what was inside the mind of the Minister but I am aware that those groups meet formally and informally. I would not have described them as experts in the foreign trust industry specifically and therefore I do not have the information to answer that question.James Shaw: Is it standard operating practice in his office to make rapid policy changes based only on input from industry lobbyists?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: I contest the two prefaces in that question: that it was a hasty process and that it was on the basis of just one meeting.James Shaw: Will the John Shewan review of foreign trusts be meeting with any other stakeholders besides those from the foreign trust industry?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: That will be a matter for Mr Shewan but the terms of reference are on the public record.James Shaw: Why did the Minister tell the foreign trust lobbyists at his very first meeting with them on 16 December 2014 that the Government had no intention of reviewing foreign trusts; and is that also standard operating procedure?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: As I was not the Minister at that time and was not in that meeting I am not going to speculate on what was or was not said in that meeting.James Shaw: What proportion of New Zealand foreign trusts does he estimate are being used for illegal activities like money-laundering or tax evasion?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: It is a very difficult question to answer because of the way in which it has been asked. The fact is that anybody who is embarking on illegal activity that is identified by the New Zealand tax jurisdictions will be held to account for that activity. I repeat that the New Zealand presence is of the trustee. The foreign trusts themselves the settlors and the transactions are all in overseas jurisdictions and it would be they who would be interested in that activity.James Shaw: Is he concerned that although the foreign trust industry itself estimates that there are about 20000 foreign trusts operating in New Zealand the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) says that there are only 11646 registered trusts meaning that nearly half of all foreign trusts operating in New Zealand may be operating illegally?Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE: I have not seen that first figure. I would go by the number that are registered with IRD.