English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
English Bill: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:627;Page:21746] 
5.  
Hon BILL ENGLISH (National—Clutha-Southland) 
 to the  
Minister of Education 
: Why has he and Government agencies waited until June 2005 to take action on Te Wananga o Aotearoa when an official stated on 17 October 2003 with respect to Te Wananga o Aotearoa “I’m tired of going to large meetings which are drawn-out and everyone agrees but no action comes of it all.”? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD (Minister of Education) 
: 
 The Government did not wait. 
Hon Bill English 
: Given that the Minister himself has said that the wananga has serious levels of financial risk and that there is doubt about its ongoing capabilities how did those problems escape the notice of three public agencies—the New Zealand Qualifications Authority the Ministry of Education and the Tertiary Education Commission—dozens of officials and a consultant paid $4000 a day to watch the wananga over 2 years; or is the Minister now attacking the wananga in election year because Labour believes that the wananga supports the Maori Party? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I think the member has an interesting perspective on life. The wananga ran into problems when this Government stopped its unlimited growth path. It was relying—[ 
Interruption 
] In 2003 this Government capped the number of equivalent full-time students. That resulted in some financial problems for the wananga. If the members interjecting spoke to their mates in the National Party they would know that. 
Dr Ashraf Choudhary 
: Has the Minister seen any reports contesting that the wananga is in financial difficulty; if so what do they say? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: I have seen multiple reports. I have seen a report that argues that there is no financial crisis at the wananga that the courses offered are valuable and that the Government should let the wananga get on with the job. 
Hon Member 
: Who said that? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: Bill English said that on Willie Jackson’s programme. I have seen also a report stating that there has been a huge amount of waste at the wananga. Do members opposite want to ask again who said that? It was said by Dr Brash on  
Morning Report 
 this morning. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: Could the Minister of Education explain to the House why in the knowledge of advice from his own representative Mr McNally that the wananga council was in breach of its statutory obligations with regard to financial management Ministry of Education staff were enrolled at the wananga at several places around the country and funded as full-time students when they did at most only one 3-hour course a week? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: It is fair to say in relation to another wananga—the member is mixing his wananga—that a ministry official was enrolled in a course in a way that I think was inappropriate. That has been discussed with the official and that person has been reprimanded. 
Hon Ken Shirley 
: I seek the leave of the House to table a letter from a staff member of the Ministry of Education that explains how that person and many other Ministry of Education staff members were enrolled this year in courses run by Te Wananga o Aotearoa and were funded on a full-time basis yet spent at best 3 hours a week on a course. 
Document not tabled. 
Hon Bill English 
: Will the Minister take the same actions against The Open Polytechnic as he took against the wananga given that The Open Polytechnic has doubled its size in the last 2 years and is teaching exactly the same large-scale courses as the wananga does by exactly the same delivery methods and with exactly the same excessive Government subsidy; and when will he crack down on it? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: That member is aware of a number of things I think. First The Open Polytechnic although not in flash financial condition does not have the financial crisis that the wananga has. Also it is subject to the 15 percent per annum growth maxima over a period of 4 years and it will meet that. Just because it dips down and comes back up again does not mean the receivers should go in. 
Hon Bill English 
: Which way was that Minister looking while the Tertiary Education Commission signed out huge cheques specifically authorised by Cabinet that allowed both Te Wananga o Aotearoa and The Open Polytechnic to breach the Government’s own capping rules and why does he continue to blame everyone else when he has spent almost 6 years now as the principal Minister responsible for every dollar spent by both of those institutions? 
Hon TREVOR MALLARD 
: The changes around the caps and the timing of the caps were consistent with Government policy. It is all very well for that member to be brave in here but why does he say exactly the opposite when he is on Willie Jackson’s programme which is listened to mainly by brown people?