Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Fitzsimons Jeanette: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:638;Page:8608] 
2.  
JEANETTE FITZSIMONS (Co-Leader—Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Finance 
: Does he believe that a fast clean reliable electric rail system in Auckland would be a step towards achieving the Prime Minister’s two goals of carbon neutrality and making Auckland a world-class city? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN (Minister of Finance) 
: 
 There would clearly be some positive impacts which is why the issue is under my active consideration. However it is important not to exaggerate the potential impacts of what is not and probably never will be a full urban rail system like those in many major cities elsewhere. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Does the Minister agree with the Prime Minister that it is not a matter of if Auckland rail is electrified but rather when; if so why is he delaying the decision when Auckland needs to be able to order electric units as soon as possible which take some years to deliver to avoid having to buy even more dirty old second-hand diesels to fill the lengthening gap? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: Some diesels will have to be bought in any case. Electrification probably could not be completed until the year 2013. Of course I am not just going to roll over and say “Charge us whatever you like.” The member has been quoting figures based on electrification costs of $170 million in the Auckland Regional Council document. The latest estimate is $500 million. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Does he recall telling the House in May 2006: “So far the proponents of electrification in Auckland … have not demonstrated that it actually bears any sensible cost-benefit ratio in terms of the outcomes. If it does then the Government will be prepared to support it.”; if so now that he has seen the Auckland Regional Transport Authority business plan showing that with sensible assumptions the project achieves a benefit cost better than two when will he provide Auckland with a timetable to electrify rail? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: As I have said the issue is under active consideration. A number of issues need to be considered: the appropriate governance structure; the completion of a number of other infrastructure projects; and of course the issue around exactly who will pay for this project. For those who do not have to find the money this may be a minor matter but for me this is a major matter. 
Peter Brown 
: Noting that the Minister of Transport has said that the electrification of the region’s rail network was “firmly on the Government’s agenda” will he tell the House categorically whether it is on the Government’s agenda to impose an additional regional fuel tax; if so what level of taxation is being considered and when will it be implemented? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: It is clear that if Auckland and indeed other centres such as Wellington that wish to have further local transport projects under way are going to be able to contribute some means of making that contribution has to be found. The tolls have disappeared the closer one gets to them. They have turned out to be a kind of funding mirage in the desert of funding for local transport projects. The Auckland Regional Council has specifically backed a regional petrol tax to assist in the cost of providing local projects. 
Jeanette Fitzsimons 
: Can he confirm that Auckland has already put in funding that roughly matches the $600 million the Government has put into the rail plan and that the additional funding required to do all the signalling upgrade and the electrification is something like $32 million a year for 10 years and does he not see that as a worthwhile national investment? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: I think this is why the member keeps quoting a cost-benefit ratio that is too high. The cost of the track and associated works—in other words the lines work and associated work on tracks bridges station approaches etc. which is required by electrification because one cannot just string wire straight over the existing track—is now estimated to be $500 million. That is exclusive of course of any other costs in relation to the rolling stock as well. This is quite an expensive project. In the longer term it probably realises its full value only if the loop tunnel is also built which at the moment has what one might loosely describe as a “tail on the donkey” cost of $1 billion. 
Keith Locke 
: How will the Minister respond beyond what he has said so far in Parliament today to the sense of urgency demonstrated at a packed public meeting in Auckland last Monday where local body leaders and community leaders all expressed that they saw an urgent need for a timetable for electrification and appropriate financing? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: As I said this is under active consideration by myself at the present time; we will be responding. I have to note as a politician that the term “packed public meeting” can have two meanings of course. 
Rodney Hide 
: Does the Minister accept that a decent transport system is crucial for Auckland to be a world-class city and that a good step on the way towards that would be the completion of State Highway 20—which runs through the Prime Minister’s electorate; and why cannot we see that as it would ease congestion right around the isthmus? 
Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN 
: There is a current project in Auckland that is due to be completed. The Government has committed to completion of the Auckland roading network. I do not see the improvement of public transport on which we will be spending in the current 5-year period 12 times what was spent in the late 1990s as an alternative to roading—on which we are spending almost four times as much as we were spending in the late 1990s. We need both as I have said many times—I am sorry to sound like a cracked record; one cannot transport goods and services and many other things on an electric rail system; one actually has to transport those things by road.