Scott AlastairALASTAIR SCOTT (National—Wairarapa): I had a very sort of unusual experience just a few minutes ago when I found myself agreeing with a Green Party member—that was with the words of Barry Coates and I do invite Mr Ball actually to address the questions that Mr Coates raised around that programme that was around about 10 or 15 years ago and the failure that that programme was. It is all very well to talk about the Limited Service Volunteer (LSV) programme as being a success and it is but that does not mean we can simply just expand it and somehow create greater success; it is quite a different programme. To me your programme Mr Ball looks and smells and seems to be very similar to a programme that has already proven to have failed in the past. So that is the first thing.The second point I would like to make is that there seems to be at least in the language in the Bills Digest some sort of compulsion to participate in this programme if you find yourself as one of these—I think Mr Ball calls these people—school drop outs who were languishing on the unemployment benefit." I am not sure that there are 90000 of them but nevertheless in the bill I read some sort of compulsion. Please clarify: if you cannot make it through to 15 in this case but let us just say 16 or 17 you are not in a Youth Guarantee scheme you are not in a Gateway scheme you like the service academies that are out there—because I am assuming your bill is about voluntary participation in a scheme—you are enjoying the service academies you have already participated in those and you are thinking of a career in the military that is the pathway that I am anticipating as the entry point for these people for these youth. Then of course you did not like the Māori and Pasifika Trades Training Initiative and you failed the Pacific Employment Support Services or whatever it is.So I am interested to hear from you Mr Ball whether it is compulsory whether these people have to have failed or participated in and dropped out of not just secondary school but also all these other initiatives that the Government has as options for those young people not in education employment or training "neets" or youth—or even those school-leavers as they may not even be "neets". So that is the second point.The third point is that I am also concerned at the age group that your bill applies to. We have already talked about the pastoral care that would be required. I am assuming—and I apologise if I make the wrong assumptions—that these camps would be in a boarding house situation. You would live on campus you would get up in the morning you would run around the block you would be forced to do 100 sit-ups and then you would go and do your apprenticeship training and so on and so forth. So I am concerned about the age of these participants. I believe that we should do everything to keep people in school and that if they are not set up to participate in school then there are other options like the charter schools. So I would be interested to hear your thoughts vis-à-vis this bill with regard to charter schools. Is there a role that charter schools can play for the people whom Mr Ball is talking about?Fletcher Tabuteau: We'll just stick to this bill.ALASTAIR SCOTT: No well it is a similar—there is no reason why you cannot have a specialised charter school - type call-it-whatever-you-like.Darroch Ball: Because then it's not a school.ALASTAIR SCOTT: Mr Ball your bill does recommend—The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): Come back.ALASTAIR SCOTT: —doing training for apprenticeships. You talk about the NCEA and the ongoing education in the camp in the school so I do not see it as too dissimilar especially given the age group that you are talking about.But overall I cannot support this bill obviously. I think it does feel like a silver bullet and I think there are a lot of well-intended purposes to the bill but the way that it is laid out and the end result are not I believe what the member is looking for so I cannot support this bill.The ASSISTANT SPEAKER (Lindsay Tisch): I call Darroch Ball—5 minutes in reply."