Tabuteau FletcherFLETCHER TABUTEAU (Deputy Leader—NZ First): Thank you sir. It's a pleasure to rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill. I just want to acknowledge firstly the constructive approach from the Opposition in select committee. I think it has been mentioned by previous speakers but it's worth noting again because in the Finance and Expenditure Committee there is often heated debate but actually that heated debate is in my opinion and observation thus far always constructive and seeks to come to an agreed outcome where all of those members on that committee see the best interest of New Zealanders at the forefront of the efforts of their endeavours in that committee.When I say that this legislation has been about a Government but I say a Parliament. Efforts were made previously actually by the previous Government—I think in 2015 if memory serves—to take legislation down this track. I think those on the other side have acknowledged that there was a genuine attempt made but the effort didn't go far enough and so here we are. That's not to disparage those on the other side of the House. Here we are though together looking at how we can do this better in a way that is beneficial to New Zealand consumers who have need of these short-term loans and credit. But how is it that we look after their best interests and have consumers' interests at heart?The context in which we come to the House is that as others have said we have unfortunately experienced—I think all of us—firsthand in the respective electorates those people who have suffered at the hands of loan sharks or short-term debt collectors short-term loan providers and have come into our offices and told—you don't want to say stories because that implies that it's fiction. This is not fiction. This is real people suffering through incredible hardship because they have been restricted in their access to money.I suppose there's one way to put that in context: 40 percent of New Zealanders do not have access to credit cards. What that illustrates to those in the House and those listening is they'd likely not have access to short-term loans from the banks either. So where do they go? There has been and is a service provided to New Zealanders that meets a need.But what I want to say—and perhaps it's time to get into the specifics of some of those conversations that we had in the committee—is that we have said yes there is an opportunity and there is unfortunately a need for access to credit but what does that look like? One of the things that we spoke about in the first reading—not because of submissions but from conversations that we'd had around the country; all of us have had them—was this conversation about the fact that the bill didn't come to the House with the interest rate cap. That immediately generated lots of public discussion and I myself pondered on that in the first reading and I know others did too. So subsequently you can picture the contributions in select committee. They were robust and they were fulsome and actually what they were able to do is provide examples from around the world of interest rate caps being applied.The select committee and all members asked the question Well what is that going to do to people who need these short-term loans? If you put on an interest rate cap doesn't that make it prohibitive for providers to lend out money?" Actually what we learnt from the cases provided to us from Britain was that post analysis of the implementation of an equivalent cap in Britain the conversations with those people who used to use those short-term loans unfortunately on a frequent basis—post analysis they themselves realised that they were actually a lot better off for not having access to those loans.I put that in context. This debate needs to focus on the wording around debt spiral. A debt spiral is all about people having access to money and then needing more money to pay for that previous access to money and maybe even needing more money again to pay for the access to that previous money. Actually what the select committee did by way of example was have a conversation around that debt spiral and access to money and what the committee recommended to the Minister and to the House and what we see here in this legislation is that actually one of the triggers or one of the issues that needs to be part of this legislation—and as I said it is—is that we must make sure that those people who have used short-term loans cannot access more and compound the problem and variably drive themselves into that debt spiral.That has been just one of the many constructive contributions from the select committee in terms of—I'm going to say—improving the legislation. I think all of those in the House would agree that it has come out of select committee. We have listened to the hundreds of submitters who made the effort and took the time to put themselves in front of the select committee to have their say and to talk in great detail about the fine differentiations between what is an effective interest rate cap and what is not and what is the definition of a short-term loan and what is a long one. I think it's appropriate to end my contribution on that note. Not only do I commend those who took the time out on submission to the select committee but again as I started I commend the select committee as a whole—not only the Opposition of course but the work of the Government members. It was an example of collaborative and positive constructive work. On that note I commend this bill to the House. Thank you very much."