Smith Nick: Legislation (Incorporation by Reference) Bill — Instruction to Committee Second Reading Instruction to Committee Instruction to Committee In Committee 
Smith Nick: Legislation (Incorporation by Reference) Bill — Instruction to Committee Second Reading Instruction to Committee Instruction to Committee In Committee 
[Volume:625;Page:19814] 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH (National—Nelson) 
: 
 I raise a point of order Madam Chairperson. I note that Part 1 of this bill is amendments to the Building Act. I also note that the Supplementary Order Paper that has been tabled has 21 pages of amendments to the Building Act and I note that the Minister for Building Issues is in the Chamber. Would it not be appropriate for the Government to have the Minister responsible for the Act in the chair? 
The CHAIRPERSON (Ann Hartley) 
: The Minister in charge of the bill is in the chair. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: This is an extraordinary situation. As my colleague Ken Shirley pointed out we have a Minister who is paid a ministerial salary gets a flash ministerial house and sits in ministerial cars all for being the Minister for Building Issues we have an awfully botched Act the ink of which is not yet dry and we have 21 pages of amendments to it yet the Minister responsible tosses away all responsibility for it. What sort of Government do we have where the Minister responsible— 
Hon David Carter 
: Tamihere’s right. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: He is absolutely right; he is literally right. Chris Carter has tossed away his responsibilities and one who tosses things away is indeed and must be a tosser. We now have some insight as to exactly what John Tamihere was referring to. 
This extraordinary Supplementary Order Paper— 
Darren Hughes 
: This should be the last man to make a comment like that. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I would like the young member from the Otaki coast who will be losing his seat in about 4 months’ time to a very talented young guy to explain why we have a Minister for Building Issues who does not introduce Supplementary Order Paper 361 and who is not in the chair to defend his legislation. 
Darren Hughes 
: The member should finish his personal attacks on the Minister and get on with debating the bill. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I ask the simple question of the hot-headed member for Otaki why we have a Minister for Building Issues who when we have a bill on building issues is nowhere to be seen. The member was very talkative a moment ago. Can he give an answer to a simple question? He is sitting next to the Minister for Building Issues. Why is the Supplementary Order Paper not in his name and why is he not in the chair? 
Darren Hughes 
: Why don’t you talk about the substance of the legislation? 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The member wants to talk about the substance but he is not prepared to answer the question. The key issue is ministerial responsibility. The Minister sitting next to him is the Minister responsible for the biggest botch-up in legislation that I have seen in my 15 years in this place. 
Lianne Dalziel 
: He wasn’t the Minister. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Oh Lianne Dalziel was the Minister. I just want someone on the Government benches— 
Lianne Dalziel 
: I wasn’t on the select committee. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I simply wish someone on the Government benches would accept responsibility for this awful botch-up which is the worst case I have seen in my time in Parliament in terms of bad law. 
Hon Chris Carter 
: This member needs another rest. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Chris Carter will not answer the basic question as to who is responsible for this mess. Well I have a list here of those who have been the responsible Minister and I would say it is probably the Prime Minister. I will say why. In the last 6 years we have had seven Ministers who have been responsible for building issues. It is little wonder that when the Government has played a game of musical chairs with a portfolio that involves $18 billion a year of our economy we have this sort of legislative mess and this sort of abuse of process. 
I ask Lianne Dalziel why this legislation cannot be referred to a select committee. 
Lianne Dalziel 
: Let’s debate the issues. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Let us debate the issues then. She is not prepared to answer those questions. Perhaps the Minister in the chair Pete Hodgson can say why clause 5A in the Supplementary Order Paper inserts subsections (1) (2) (3) (4) and (6) into section 438 of the Building Act. I know that education standards have plummeted in the Government I know that Government members cannot count I know that we are expected to rush this legislation through and make it law by tomorrow but can Chris Carter explain why the Government counts its subsections in the order of (1) (2) (3) (4) and (6)? If the Minister in the chair would just pay attention for a moment he would see that on page 15 of the Supplementary Order Paper there is a botch-up. 
I refer to another botch-up that has been drawn to the Committee’s attention by Dail Jones on page 11. Clause 3P adds a new subsection (2) to section 241 and it states that subsection (1) is subject to paragraphs (a) and (b). But there is no subsection (1). I have the Building Act here and section 241 has no subsection (1). So here we have the Government having passed a botched Act rushing in a 21-page Supplementary Order Paper late at night and already—[ 
Interruption 
] Perhaps Chris Carter can answer this question. How can clause 3P have subsection (1) subject to two new provisions when there is no subsection (1)? 
Hon Chris Carter 
: Just take a deep breath. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: I have. Would the member answer the question? [ 
Interruption 
] Are those members not interesting? I ask them a serious question about their flawed law and all they can do is try to divert attention. The fact is the Supplementary Order Paper is a mess as well and this Government is avoiding any select committee process at all in dealing with it. 
The first part of this amendment deals with the definition of building work. I want to say how badly the Government goofed up. What Chris Carter did with the law was to say: “You can’t do any design work on a building until you get a building consent.” 
Hon Chris Carter 
: Ha ha! 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: He thinks that is funny. 
Hon Chris Carter 
: Because the member has got it wrong. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Well if that is the case why are we altering the definition of building work? 
Lianne Dalziel 
: We are shifting the location of design work. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: Oh well why are we shifting the location of design work? I will tell Lianne Dalziel why. The reason we are shifting the definition of design so that it applies only to Part 4 is that every one of our 15000 building engineers and architects has been breaching the law because of the flawed way that this law was drafted and passed. 
We take the second issue—the mess over dams. If there are any building structures that have the potential to kill people it is dams. The largest man-made disaster in human history was the Vaiont tragedy where 16000 people died as a consequence of a dam failure. But again we find the Government has botched the law in respect of safe dam design. 
Dr Richard Worth 
: I raise a point of order Mr Chairperson. I am sorry to interrupt my friend but I just notice that in the lobbies there are officials perhaps just floating around who I do not think are officials associated with this legislation. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: Where? 
Dr Richard Worth 
: Right outside. It is a simple question with a simple answer. I would just like inquiries to be made as to why these people are floating around here. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I believe that they are officials or people assisting the Minister. 
Dr Richard Worth 
: I do regret interrupting the flow of my learned friend’s speech but it is quite unsatisfactory. This is not a place for Labour lobbyists to circle round weak Ministers. 
Hon Pete Hodgson 
: They are officials. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I accept the Minister’s word that they are officials. 
Dr Richard Worth 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: I am not going to take another point of order. 
Dr Richard Worth 
: I would like to ask why it is necessary for more than 10 officials to be in attendance on a Minister on a bill of this complexity. 
The CHAIRPERSON (Hon Clem Simich) 
: That is not a question for you to raise but I thank you for raising the first point of order. 
Hon Dr NICK SMITH 
: The incompetence of this Government is that even with Parliament swarming with officials we end up with a Supplementary Order Paper that shows that Government members cannot count that has provisions that refer to parts that do not exist and that has 21 pages of changes to the Building Act that are being raced through Parliament to fix up problems that Chris Carter only 2 weeks’ ago said did not exist. What an extraordinary time we have in Parliament with respect to those! 
I want to express serious concern about what is not in this bill. The Government in its stupidity decided to prohibit ordinary New Zealanders from being able to do building work on their own houses. I extended an extra bedroom on my first house in Christchurch which enabled me to extend my equity. This Government is going to prohibit that. Thousands and thousands of New Zealanders have gone about improving their homes adding rooms and doing work. This Government is going to prohibit their being able to do that and I say that is quite wrong.