Goldsmith PaulHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (National): Thank you Madam Chair and it's good for the opportunity to have Minister Chris Hipkins in the chair to discuss elements of this hastily introduced and rushed-through-the-House legislation. Just for the benefit of people listening in to this committee normally when legislation is introduced to the House affecting New Zealanders—in this case the owners and operators and staff in early childhood centres—there would be plenty of time for a select committee to consider what was raised in the bill and for people to make submissions and be heard and to have plenty of time to have their say. What we have here is a very truncated situation: we had a couple of weeks a few people had a chance to say something but as the Minister I'm sure will remember from the weekend where I understand he had a fairly hostile reception from an early childhood education sector conference there has been widespread despair in the sector over the introduction of this bill at such speed. The sector was blindsided by elements of this legislation; I'm sure the Minister will stand up and say that he's raised the issue of pay parity with the sector—pay parity being ultimately higher earnings for those working in the sector—over a long period of time. That's true but what this bill has before us and what we're discussing in this legislation is beyond that. It goes beyond simple remuneration and allows the Minister to dictate employment terms and conditions for these private businesses. So there is widespread concern about what exactly that means.Secondly the other piece of feedback that I understand he received over the weekend was a great unwillingness by many in the sector to take up the option which is outlined or enabled by this legislation because ultimately what they're being asked to do is take on higher costs without any extra funding of any note. So the two most likely consequences of this legislation are either higher fees for parents which is the last thing they need in the context of rising living costs—particularly housing costs which are causing real problems for many households across the country—or lower teacher ratios that is more kids per teacher. That's the only way that the early childhood centres can make this operate. On average we've heard figures of around an extra $40000 per centre added cost being put on to them and there is no miracle. I suppose the Minister and the Government just assume that the owners will just have less profit less to invest and they'll just lump it but that's unfortunately not how the world works. What we're more likely to see is higher fees and lower ratios.A couple of questions I have as a start for the Minister is what feedback did he get from the sector on the weekend and at other opportunities that he's had to hear from them; does he have a sense of how many are likely to take up this option; and is he concerned that a likely outcome could be higher fees or more children per teacher as a response to this piece of legislation? The other element is why he chose rather than using the attestation mechanism which is the process through which higher teacher salaries have been achieved in the past—why he didn't go for that approach but instead came for this legislation which grants the Minister much wider powers to ultimately interfere with the employment terms and conditions in this private business. The broader consequences of that is of course an increase in general uncertainty or regulatory uncertainty that the owners of these businesses face.