Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Heatley Phil: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:640;Page:10549] 
7.  
PHIL HEATLEY (National—Whangarei) 
 to the  
Minister of Housing 
: Can he confirm his statement yesterday that “Already in the last year we have moved 303 tenants into smaller houses thus saving the taxpayer $300 million” later corrected to a saving of $280 million; if so how exactly does the taxpayer save $924000 on average by shifting a tenant into a smaller State home? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER (Minister of Housing) 
: 
 The member was not in the House last night when I was granted leave to correct the figures I gave during question time. I will attempt to clarify the figures for the member now. In 2006 and 2007 Housing New Zealand Corporation saved an estimated $280 million both by encouraging market rate tenants into private rental housing or homeownership and through shifting small families occupying large houses into smaller homes. In 2006 and 2007 the corporation saved an estimated $36 million by shifting those 303 tenants occupying large houses into smaller ones. This figure does not include the impact of shifting market rent tenants. This morning I have obtained cumulative figures for the last 2 years that show that we have saved over $600 million through shifting people into smaller houses and shifting people on market rents into the private sector. 
Phil Heatley 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. To put this question on the Order Paper this morning I had the Clerk’s Office confirm to me that the Minister’s statement last night said that he had corrected the saving made from shifting 303 tenants to “$280 million”. Consequently that is exactly what I put in the question. The Minister has not answered the question as to why shifting 303 tenants saves $280 million—the figure that the Clerk’s Office confirmed he said last night. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: I think the Minister did give a full answer to the question but the member has a supplementary question. 
Phil Heatley 
: Does the Minister stand by the claim he made in this debating Chamber that in the last year by shifting 303 State house tenants into smaller homes he has saved the taxpayer $280 million; does he stand by that statement or not? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: By a very active programme in Housing New Zealand Corporation of shifting people out of bigger houses they no longer need into smaller ones and by moving market renters into private accommodation or into buying their own homes we have saved over $600 million in the last 2 years. 
Russell Fairbrother 
: What reports has the Minister seen about alternative approaches to housing policy? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Last night National’s associate housing spokesperson Bob Clarkson mesmerised this Chamber with his proposals for the Government to withdraw completely from social housing. He also suggested that mixed communities such as the one we are planning for Hobsonville would “offend” people. One can only assume he felt happier with the less-well-off living in their own areas. Perhaps “Bob the Builder” has finally revealed National’s long-awaited housing policy—no State housing and ghettos for the poor. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: If members wish to stay in the Chamber not only will they be seated when I rise but also they will keep quiet. The Minister made an inappropriate reference to a member so I will ask him to withdraw that comment. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I apologise for calling Mr Clarkson “Bob the Builder”. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: We just need a withdrawal and an apology. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I withdraw and apologise. 
Pita Paraone 
: Tena koe Madam Speaker. If the Government is to continue saving New Zealanders money in the housing portfolio when will it finally commit to making State housing available to confirmed New Zealand citizens? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: State house tenants must be residents or citizens of New Zealand. If the member has any information to the contrary could he please let me know. 
Phil Heatley 
: If the Minister is really saying he can save almost a million dollars by shifting a tenant into a smaller State house or save a million dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars by shifting on market renters why does he not just pay these thousands of tenants and boarders half a million bucks each upfront to buy their own home free up the State house for a needy family on the waiting list and pocket the other half-million dollars for the Housing New Zealand Corporation? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: Perhaps finally we are hearing the National Party’s housing policy. 
Gerry Brownlee 
: I raise a point of order Madam Speaker. The Minister stood because he wanted to answer the question but that answer surely cannot be considered as addressing the question. He is the one who has put the figures into the arena. He is the one who has told us today about his achievements. Now here is a simple question: why on earth would the Government spend so much moving people around when it could just give them a house in the first place? 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Perhaps the Minister would like to add to his answer. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I am pleased to report as I have already in the House today that we have saved the taxpayer over $600 million in the last 2 years by moving people around. 
Phil Heatley 
: Can the Minister confirm his answer to question for written answer No. 2998 where he says that there are 1578 underutilised houses with two or more spare bedrooms and that they have been underutilised for 5 years now; if so why has he moved only 303 of those 1500 tenants into smaller houses in the past 5 years when apparently he could have saved the taxpayer billions of dollars? 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: It has never been Labour Party policy to throw people out of their homes nor has it been its policy to sell State houses—unlike the previous National Government which sold 13000 State houses. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table an answer to a parliamentary question that states that there are 1500 houses with spare bedrooms. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table an answer to a parliamentary question that states that there are 7000 houses with spare bedrooms and boarders. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table an answer to a parliamentary question that states that only 46 of these 8500 tenants have been moved on. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Phil Heatley 
: I seek leave to table a statement from the Minister that only 303 of these 8500 tenants have— 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection. 
Hon CHRIS CARTER 
: I seek leave to table a parliamentary question that shows that Mr Heatley yesterday rounded out a figure of 6931 tenants to 6000 tenants. 
Madam SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? Yes there is objection.