Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Cosgrove Clayton: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:654;Page:2920] 
6.  
Hon CLAYTON COSGROVE (Labour—Waimakariri) 
 to the  
Minister of Corrections 
: Why did she tell the House yesterday in respect of the incident at the Northland Region Corrections Facility that “a number of staff received minor injuries.”? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Corrections) 
: 
 What I actually said was: “Unfortunately a number of staff received minor injuries. The most serious injury is a suspected fractured shoulder”. Yesterday that member claimed that five prison officers were attacked by 15 prisoners; in fact there are three identified assailants. He claimed that a staff member suffered a smashed Achilles heel; the staff member did not. He claimed that there was double-bunking in that part of the prison; there was not. To exaggerate claims about prison incidents to score political points undermines the excellent work of our corrections officers. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does the Minister dispute the Corrections Association advice that a male officer had his nose broken a female officer dislocated her shoulder and had a ball joint in her arm broken and another female officer seriously injured her Achilles tendon resulting in three officers requiring hospital treatment; and does she still characterise these injuries as minor? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I am happy to table for the House the list of injuries to staff that the Department of Corrections has provided to me—including by the way the comment about the supposed broken Achilles. The prison manager asked the prison officer whether her ankle was broken and whether the Achilles tendon was damaged. She replied “No.”; she has a sprained ankle. The prison officer who was reported to have received a broken nose actually sustained a bloodied nose and he returned to full duties the following day. I am happy to table that list. 
Sandra Goudie 
: Has the Minister received any other reports regarding assaults on staff? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Yes I have seen a report that in the last 4 months of Mr Goff’s term as Minister of Corrections there were 36 assaults by prisoners on staff compared to 17 in the first 4 months of this Government. In September 2006 a prisoner took a female officer hostage requiring the armed offenders squad to intervene. In January 2007 a prison officer was set upon by four prisoners armed with weapons fashioned from knives and scissors. In May 2007 15 youth prisoners took control of a wing at Rimutaka Prison for 5 hours causing substantial damage to such an extent that that wing has not yet been reopened. In May 2008 a prison officer was seriously assaulted by a prisoner and required plastic surgery. In July 2008 a prison officer lost an eye following an assault by a prisoner. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the Minister has made her point fairly clearly. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Those are very serious assaults. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does the Minister consider that the injury reported by a prison officer who was a victim of the incident was minor or serious? I quote from one of the official incident information reports of 4 May 2009: “I was punched in the head the back of the head and chest approximately 10 times. I couldn’t identify who the prisoners were that punched me because they turned me face down on the bed. Then I got thrown out of the cell door.” 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Obviously it is very serious whenever a prison officer is actually attacked. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Oh it’s serious now? It wasn’t serious yesterday. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: The question that the member asked yesterday was about the injuries. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I apologise to the Minister but I cannot hear her answer. I just ask members please to be reasonable in their interjections. I apologise to the Hon Judith Collins for interrupting. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: It is never acceptable for staff to be assaulted by prisoners and that is one of the reasons that this Government has stamped down on prisoners collecting razor blades in their cells which the previous Government was quite happy to have happen. It is never acceptable. 
Sandra Goudie 
: What is the Government doing to make prisons safer for staff? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: The safety of prison staff and the public is my No. 1 priority. Unlike the previous Minister of Corrections Labour member Phil Goff I am actually doing something about it. For example just this week we have stopped high-security and remand prisoners from hoarding razor blades in their cells. This was a common-sense initiative that Mr Goff could have easily implemented but chose to not be bothered to. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Can members on both sides please be a little more reasonable. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Does the Minister now admit that both her description in the House yesterday of the injuries and the description of the incident by one Warren Cummins northern regional manager of the Department of Corrections that “the worst you could say is they”—the prisoners—“might have thrown some peas or potatoes.” are inaccurate offensive and insulting to the staff who were injured and involved? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: No. What I can say is that the complete over-rarking of this whole incident by Mr Cosgrove has undermined the excellent work in response of the Department of Corrections officers involved. I am quite happy to table as well for the House a complete rundown on the assaults on staff—exactly what happened—for the benefit of the member and the rest of the House. Every time prisoners think they are getting something over our prison officers—like that member keeps wanting to promote—they are the people who get the promotion. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: Have any prisoners in the unit been interviewed—either internally or externally by police or by Department of Corrections staff—or been charged and have any procedures in the unit been changed as a result of this incident or is it as one prison official described: “Nothing has been done in the unit. It’s as if the incident never happened. The only thing that’s changed is that some prison officers are walking around in cells with black eyes and fat lips.”? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I prefer not to take the reports of the next Labour candidate for Tukituki into account when I am providing information to the House. I am able however to provide to the House—and I have already offered to do so—a full report from the Department of Corrections about the incident. The member has asked whether the police were involved; I understand that the police have been involved. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: When will this Minister admit that she called this one wrong and that it was a serious incident that resulted in serious injuries to officers; and will she visit the injured victims and apologise to them for her dismissive and flippant answers in the House yesterday when she characterised those officers’ injuries as “minor”? 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I know that that member is struggling to make an impact in his shadow portfolio but really! 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Point of order the Hon Trevor Mallard. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: Three into 15 goes five times— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Order! A point of order has been raised by the Hon Trevor Mallard. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I am actually going to change my points of order—to take them in a different order. The first thing is that Ministers should be addressing you Mr Speaker when they are answering questions. If the Minister had been doing that she would have seen you stand and call her to order. I ask you first to rule on that. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Members must be quiet while points of order are being dealt with. I accept the point the member makes: the Minister should have sat down and ceased answering the question when I called “Order!” and stood. In the overall scale of crimes though I do not think it is a hanging offence. But the member makes a perfectly valid point of order. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. The first point of order that I was going to raise relates to the first sentence of the Minister’s answer. Ministers are required I think at least to start with something that addresses the question. They should not introduce outside matters before they even attempt to address it. 
Hon Rodney Hide 
: The Hon Trevor Mallard makes a reasonable point to a degree. However the Hon Clayton Cosgrove was clearly trying through those questions to make political points. If a member sets out to make political points it is not unreasonable for the Minister to point out the political failings of the member asking the question. I suggest to the Hon Trevor Mallard that if his front bench is not up to taking a political— 
Mr SPEAKER 
: No no the member must not use a point of order to criticise another party. Did the Hon Gerry Brownlee wish to add to the issue? 
Hon Gerry Brownlee 
: I really just back up Mr Hide in a way. You yourself Mr Speaker have ruled in recent weeks and on numerous occasions that if questions are loaded in a political sense so will the answers be. [ 
Interruption 
] 
Mr SPEAKER 
: There will be no interjections please while we are dealing with this matter. In normal circumstances the point the Hon Trevor Mallard has raised is a perfectly good point: Ministers should not commence an answer to a question with a political attack on the person asking the question. That is totally outside the Standing Orders. But the other point made is certainly valid: where members asking questions make a political statement they are likely to get a political statement back. I ask Ministers to please address the question or attempt to answer the question rather than launch into a political attack on the questioner. But the point is well made that where members ask politically loaded questions they are likely to get a politically loaded answer. Let us see whether we can bring a more settled atmosphere to the House today. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table an incident information report—and I note for the record that the names of the innocent have been deleted—of 4 May 2009 in which a victim of this assault notes being punched 10 times. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is no objection. 
Document by leave  laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon Clayton Cosgrove 
: I seek leave to table a transcript of Television One of 6 May 2009 in which Mr Warren Cummins notes that potatoes and peas were thrown in this incident. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I take it that it is a television transcript. The member is seeking leave to table a television transcript. Is there any objection? There is objection. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I seek leave to table a report from the Department of Corrections on the incident—dated 4 May—and on injuries to staff. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Is there any objection to that document being tabled? There is objection. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: Point of order Mr Speaker. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I think the honourable member has— 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: No she has had one. We have dealt with it. Point of order Mr Speaker. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: No I have another one. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Will both members please resume your seats. We are not going to have this. Leave was sought to table a document; the leave was denied so that matter has been dealt with. 
Hon Trevor Mallard 
: I raise a point of order Mr Speaker. I wish to make it clear to Ministers—I know that some of them are relatively inexperienced—that they do not need the permission of the House to table a document. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: I appreciate the honourable member’s advice. I will check it out to make sure. I will seek advice right now so that the House can benefit. If we can have some silence for a moment. I apologise to the honourable member; I was not absolutely certain of the point he just raised but the advice I have received is that a Minister like any other member wishing to table a document does have to seek the leave of the House to do so. I will—[ 
Interruption 
]—I am dealing with a point of order. I will check the matter further because the honourable member has raised a perfectly sensible point as to whether Ministers have the right to simply table documents. That is fine. I will check it out further but that is the advice I have at this moment. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: In light of that I seek leave again to table the report from the Department of Corrections on the injuries to staff. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House. 
Hon JUDITH COLLINS 
: I seek leave to table a report from the Department of Corrections on assaults to staff. It includes a full run-down of what happened including the 1 minute that it took for other staff to come and help. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that document. Is there any objection? There is none. 
Document by leave laid on the Table of the House.