Locke Keith: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
Locke Keith: Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers 
[Volume:618;Page:14387] 
9.  
KEITH LOCKE (Green) 
 to the  
Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade 
: Why did the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade set mid-January 2004 as a deadline for obtaining comments from the Belgian French and Swiss Governments on the Refugee Status Appeals Authority judgment on Ahmed Zaoui? 
Hon PHIL GOFF (Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade) 
: 
 The ministry referred copies of the Refugee Status Appeals Authority decision on Mr Zaoui to those Governments whose judicial actions were commented upon in that decision. Responses were sought by mid-January because the review of the security risk certificate by the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security was expected to start early in the new year. I am advised that these responses were sought to assist the inspector-general in relation to whether the criticisms contained in that decision were valid or otherwise. 
Keith Locke 
: What precedent or principle was the Government operating under when it repeatedly hounded those three foreign Governments for information to undermine the well-considered judgment of the quasi-judicial body the Refugee Status Appeals Authority? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The member has made a number of assumptions in his question that I reject. Firstly the action was not designed to undermine any decision of the Refugee Status Appeals Authority; nor did the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade to the best of my knowledge “hound” other embassies. What it indicated was that if the review of the security certificate was to take place early in the year it was important to have that information by that date if it was to be used for the purpose for which it was requested. 
Tim Barnett 
: What is the role of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade in respect of the Zaoui case? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The ministry has a rather limited role as the matter is predominately the responsibility of the New Zealand Immigration Service. It has helped where its advice has been sought on the requirements of international conventions and also when contact has been needed with other Governments. It is interesting that one of the things the ministry did was to approach the Belgian authorities last year at the request of the Refugee Status Appeals Authority in order to get a copy of the Belgian judgment. 
Rt Hon Winston Peters 
: Have three First World economies with First World judicial systems adjudged this man to be a terrorist; if so and as what he has cost the New Zealand taxpayer has now passed $900000 why does the Government not just throw him out and send the bill to his chief apologist in this House Mr Locke? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: There are two questions there. Firstly yes the judicial systems in Switzerland France and Belgium—all countries actually known for their respect for human rights—all reached a similar conclusion about Mr Zaoui. Why does the Government not just throw him out? The reason is that this Government believes in the rule of law in obeying the law passed by this Parliament and the requirements on the Government and of course in being consistent with international law including the requirements of the United Nations convention on refugees. 
Keith Locke 
: If the ministry was just gathering information did it also gather information from the distinguished French critics of the French judicial system in counter-terrorism cases; if not was it just obtaining information that it thought the SIS might be able to use against the Refugee Status Appeals Authority a judicial body whose independence the Government should respect? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: I would have thought that the role of approaching any critics of the French judicial system was that of the defence counsel for Ahmed Zaoui and I am sure they do their job very thoroughly. It is important however if the Government and the inspector-general are to rely on information that is before the Refugee Status Appeal Authority to know whether the criticisms made by that authority in terms of the legal process against Zaoui in three Western countries were valid or not valid and that was why the information was sought. I would have thought that that member as well as everybody else would be interested in the answer to that question. 
Keith Locke 
: Was it not true that the information was gained for the SIS in its case against Mr Zaoui and not as the Minister said for the inspector-general given that the information was requested urgently on the first working-day following the High Court decision which required the SIS to provide a summary of allegations to Mr Zaoui? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: This was a decision made by officials. It had no political overtone at all. In fact it was not done in conjunction with Ministers. But I advise the member to read the document that was released under the Official Information Act. I will quote the relevant sentence: “Their responses will be relevant to the inspector-general’s review of the security risk certificate.” That was the reason the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade gave in contacting its embassies in those three countries as to why it needed that information. And it needed that information by the time the review was thought to take place; otherwise it would not have been material for that purpose. I would have thought that was self-evident. 
Keith Locke 
: Why did New Zealand’s deputy head of mission in France Simon Gimson selectively leak information about the French note to the  
New Zealand Herald  
journalist Catherine Field apparently without telling her that it had been solicited by repeated and renewed requests to France by the New Zealand Government and that the French had not felt it necessary to give any information until those requests ever since the 1 August decision of the Refugee Status Appeals Authority? 
Hon PHIL GOFF 
: The member makes the allegation that a Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade official leaked material to Catherine Field. I understand that Catherine Field herself has said she got that information in fact from the Belgian Ministry of Foreign Affairs not from a leak from Simon Gimson. 
Keith Locke 
: I seek leave to table an article from the 
 Listener 
 dated 31 July which quotes a Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade document stating that Mr Gunson did tell Catherine Field. 
Mr SPEAKER 
: Leave is sought to table that article. Is there any objection? There is.